# Taxi driver is a minimum wage job.



## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


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## The Mollusk (Feb 13, 2016)

This is true. The only difference is that you can drive as many hours as you want in a taxi. McDs will give you 30 hours a week. A taxi can work 90 hours a week easy.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

The Mollusk said:


> This is true. The only difference is that you can drive as many hours as you want in a taxi. McDs will give you 30 hours a week. A taxi can work 90 hours a week easy.


I agree, plus, I can drive it anytime, any schedule I want. People just need to accept this fact, you drive for minimum wage. Now, there are ways to get paid more, either get real good at asking for tips without annoying the pax; buy more efficient car, work the surge on uber, or any other incentive given you. Since I am truly partime, I go for the extra $100 for 50 rides, I do it in less than 25 hours of driving a week, and it is great extra cash for the period I would otherwise go drinking or play computer games at home.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> I agree, plus, I can drive it anytime, any schedule I want. People just need to accept this fact, you drive for minimum wage. Now, there are ways to get paid more, either get real good at asking for tips without annoying the pax; buy more efficient car, work the surge on uber, or any other incentive given you. Since I am truly partime, I go for the extra $100 for 50 rides, I do it in less than 25 hours of driving a week, and it is great extra cash for the period I would otherwise go drinking or play computer games at home.


Forgot to add, I am not efficient on dead miles, so almost all income from driving is tax free, as the mileage deduction reduces my income close to zero.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


Thank you for proving your failure to understand your subject.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Professional servers make well over minimum wage and doing it well requires a skill set most people do not have and don't bother to develop.

The good ones are proud of their job and make more money than any Uber X driver.


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## Lance A (Aug 13, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> Professional servers make well over minimum wage and doing it well requires a skill set most people do not have and don't bother to develop.
> 
> The good ones are proud of their job and make more money than any Uber X driver.


My daughter tended bar in college and took home about $200 for every four hour shift... at a Red Robin ! Can you imagine what the old time bartenders at places like the BV make?


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


They average waitperson in the US makes *$21,640*. The U.S average for taxi drivers is *$25,690. *The federal minimum wage is *$15,080.* So no, waiters and taxi drivers are making more than minimum wage.

In addition, waiters and waitresses usually get benefits in addition to their wages.

Taxi drivers are often employed as independent contractors (like Uber drivers), so most of them have to cover themselves and their expenses.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Thank you for proving your failure to understand your subject.


Seriously, this is your comment as moderator? Try hard not to delete this comment, but if you don't get it, that is your problem, not mine.


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## indytd (Aug 29, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> They average waitperson in the US makes *$21,640*. The U.S average for taxi drivers is *$25,690. *The federal minimum wage is *$15,080.* *So no, waiters and taxi drivers are making more than minimum wage.*
> 
> In addition, waiters and waitresses usually get benefits in addition to their wages.
> 
> Taxi drivers are often employed as independent contractors (like Uber drivers), so most of them have to cover themselves and their expenses.


No, *AVERAGE* waiters and taxi drivers are making minimum wage. Not all are.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

I know I am not making $21,460 I make $39-42 k each and every year depending on how summer season goes this year I'm tracking $41,000........for 2015 I profited $42,325 and paid absolutely $0 in taxes cuz of all my write-offs


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

indytd said:


> No, *AVERAGE* waiters and taxi drivers are making minimum wage. Not all are.


The OP's claim didn't say "some". He didn't say "in the lowest 5% of the distribution". He stated, as fact, that waiters and taxi drivers make less than minimum wage.

From the Department of Labor's Website in regards to waitstaff:

_If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the Federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference._

Taxi drivers are independent contractors, so they have no guaranteed wages of any kind. That's the danger of "being your own boss".

But it looks like my info on taxi and waitstaff wages didn't account for total income. According to Salary.com (national wage statistics site), the average taxi driver is making $33,565 including tips, with the 10th percentile earning $22,704. Average waitstaff make $25,806 with the 10th percentile at $19,871. So even if waitstaff didn't have a minimum wage requirement, well over 90% of both professions pull in at least minimum wage.

No matter how you look at it, the OP's original claims are incorrect. The only profession where a claim of "less than minimum wage" could even be remotely considered would be taxi drivers, and you would be looking at the very far end of the distribution to find it. Well over 90% of taxi drivers are making minimum wage or more.

Uber drivers on the other hand...


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Seriously, this is your comment as moderator? Try hard not to delete this comment, but if you don't get it, that is your problem, not mine.


This reply is not only devoid of any foundation, it is completely disconnected from the comment to which it is intended to reply. I will pass over the rather poor attempt at sidestepping, for now, at least.

Why would I delete anything that proves your inability to make a point, thus "helps my cause"?


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## EcoboostMKS (Nov 6, 2015)

Are you basing this on personal experience? How many years did you drive a taxi?

I drove a taxi about a decade ago for about 3 or 4 years and made way more than minimum wage, but that's just my personal experience. I realize it's a completely different environment now compared to then, but taxi driving is not a one size fits all type job when it comes to pay. A lot of things factor into the drivers income.

It's not as simple as closest driver gets the call. Dispatchers have their favorites that get the better jobs and those guys can clean up. In terms of income, driving a taxi in NYC is a lot different than driving one in North Dakota (assuming they even have taxis out there). Driving in the suburbs is a lot different than city taxi driving.

In the right market and in the right situation, you're making a lot more than minimum wage. Maybe your experience driving a taxi is different based on the statements you're making in this thread though.


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## ANGRY UBER MAN (Jul 28, 2016)

Taxi driving may be a min wage job now because of uber but I don't think anyone can easily do it. You have to be aware of your surroundings in the area and be able to navigate to the best routes. You also must be able to put up with drunks and weirdos while being friendly and discrete. Similar to a bartender anyone could do it but would not last long or not make good money if they did the bare minimum.


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

ANGRY UBER MAN said:


> Taxi driving may be a min wage job now because of uber but I don't think anyone can easily do it. You have to be aware of your surroundings in the area and be able to navigate to the best routes. You also must be able to put up with drunks and weirdos while being friendly and discrete. Similar to a bartender anyone could do it but would not last long or not make good money if they did the bare minimum.


Good point. I've been in the cab business for 25 years and I've seen a lot of people college educated, skilled tradesman and others that just couldn't grasp the concept.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

"Taxi driver is a minimum wage job."

If they are LUCKY:

"The calculated average net hourly income of all Portland taxi drivers is $6.22. These low hourly wages are consistent with those found in recent studies in other U.S. cities. "

That's from a 2012 study, I can't imagine it's gotten better after Uber/Lyft

http://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2012/02/08/1328736937-taxi_driver_market_review.pdf


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

Euius said:


> "Taxi driver is a minimum wage job."
> 
> If they are LUCKY:
> 
> ...


You can't cherry pick and then extrapolate to the whole market. NYC taxi drivers, on average, make a little over $38,000 a year, which is significantly above minimum wage. But I can't say that's what all taxi drivers make.

I was using national statistics on taxi driver wages, and the probability distribution shows that all except for a tiny percentage make above minimum wage.


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

Xylphan said:


> You can't cherry pick and then extrapolate to the whole market. NYC taxi drivers, on average, make a little over $38,000 a year, which is significantly above minimum wage. But I can't say that's what all taxi drivers make.
> 
> I was using national statistics on taxi driver wages, and the probability distribution shows that all except for a tiny percentage make above minimum wage.


Being a taxi driver yourself, you should now.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Xylphan said:


> They average waitperson in the US makes *$21,640*. The U.S average for taxi drivers is *$25,690. *The federal minimum wage is *$15,080.* So no, waiters and taxi drivers are making more than minimum wage.
> 
> In addition, waiters and waitresses usually get benefits in addition to their wages.
> 
> Taxi drivers are often employed as independent contractors (like Uber drivers), so most of them have to cover themselves and their expenses.


How many cabbies and severs report 100% of their income? I was good friends with a guy who bartended. He made 1000-1500 a week cash some weeks more, a lot of weeks. Very few less. 


The Mollusk said:


> This is true. The only difference is that you can drive as many hours as you want in a taxi. McDs will give you 30 hours a week. A taxi can work 90 hours a week easy.


But at mcD's , you get free McNuggets!


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> I was using national statistics on taxi driver wages, and the probability distribution shows that all except for a tiny percentage make above minimum wage.


Except I didn't. You stopped at the first sentence and refused to read further:

"These low hourly wages are consistent with thosefound in recent studies in other U.S. cities. "

Comparing to many other markets was part of the study.


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

m1a1mg said:


> Being a taxi driver yourself, you should now.


Software engineer. I've been researching Uber (and Lyft) as potential side gigs.


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> How many cabbies and severs report 100% of their income? I was good friends with a guy who bartended. He made 1000-1500 a week cash some weeks more, a lot of weeks. Very few less.


Most likely the case, but there aren't statistics for that. And you're buddy isn't the "US".


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Euius said:


> These low hourly wages are consistent with thosefound in recent studies in other U.S. cities.


I do not know where the "author" of this "study" was getting his information, but it is not consistent with the wages for hacking in this city. Perhaps it is in the suburbs, but not in the city.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

You guys Another Uber Driver Xylphan wk1102 are hilarious, I did not say Taxi drivers make minimum wage; I said a taxi driver is a minimum-wage job. It is a low skill job, that requires no training at all. Now, not talking about black car drivers; just referring to Uberx, Select, and Taxi only. I compare to servers as they are also "minimum-wage" earners, I was one for four years. My hourly wage was below minimum. What makes waiting tables worth while are the tips.

Then, in my original post I said drivers count on tips. I started this thread because in another thread, a taxi driver TwoFiddyMile was making light of uberx drivers being foolish to work at 1979 meter rates; and my argument is that taxi drivers were ripping pax off, as they should not be making that much money, period. It is not that skill intensive job. I figure, tip $5 per short rides, 2 or 3 per hour, so $15 in tips plus whatever min wage is, and driver should be happy making that money before taxes; but after expenses. I figure $22-$25 per hour is solid for cab driver, anyone that says they should be making more, they are totally fooling themselves and adding value to something that does not exist. So with Uber argument, if they give us incentives and enough rides to make $25, we should be fine, if we are short of it, then hopefully we get some tips to get us closer. And, if people want to make a lot more, than have to work harder on tips or manage expenses (more fuel efficient car); and not focus so much on the rate we are charging.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> *1. *You guys Another Uber Driver Xylphan wk1102 are hilarious,
> 
> *2. *I said a taxi driver is a minimum-wage job.
> 
> ...


1. You have that one backwards.

2. On what do you base that? What are your qualifications for making such a statement?

3. You can not teach experience. If you think that such is possible, you are going to be disappointed.

4. The first part of this statement was a _*BLANKET*_ _*LIE*_, when you made it initially. It is _*STILL*_ a _*BLANKET LIE*_, it will be a _*BLANKET LIE*_ every time that you make it in the future. You have no basis on which to characterise cab drivers as thieves. Who are you, anyhow, to make statements on or to determine how much a cab driver is "supposed" to earn? What are your qualifications to make such statements? Who gave you the authority to determine how much a cab driver "should" make? _*WE*_ are hilarious? My goodness, do you have that one backwards.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> 1. You have that one backwards.
> 
> 2. On what do you base that? What are your qualifications for making such a statement?
> 
> ...


Relax, taxis were making too much, you know it, and everyone on here who was taxi drivers complains about the low rate. But, reality is, it is exactly right and with right incentives, the pay is exactly right for drivers.

If you are trying to tell me, that driving requires great skill, all you need is a CA drivers license; that is all you need. Well, and pass an easy background check and have a car that will not scare people away; point is, no additional skill is needed. Tell me one. And yes, I will use GPS, so don't tell me, you are so great and have every single street and court memorized as well as the routes to avoid rush traffic every time of day.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The first part of this statement was a _*BLANKET*_ _*LIE*_, when you made it initially. It is _*STILL*_ a _*BLANKET LIE*_, it will be a _*BLANKET LIE*_ every time that you make it in the future. You have no basis on which to characterise cab drivers as thieves. Who are you, anyhow, to make statements on or to determine how much a cab driver is "supposed" to earn? What are your qualifications to make such statements? Who gave you the authority to determine how much a cab driver "should" make? _*WE*_ are hilarious? My goodness, do you have that one backwards.


Oh forgot to mention, yeah, such high skill that Uber is signing up thousands. If thousands can do it, it is matter of supply/demand; hence no need to pay more; I am being very generous with $25 per hour.

Thieves, your word, i was saying ripping off, referring to high rates, but it did remind me of new yorker cabbie hustling me over a fare; and stupid route he took, all to , and will say it now, "steal from me." The fact I still see so many taxis out there, shows that there is still a lot of market shares for Uber to grab, and they will. Only the most falsely secured by some "additional regulation" will continue to use Taxi.


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

Euius said:


> Except I didn't. You stopped at the first sentence and refused to read further:
> 
> "These low hourly wages are consistent with thosefound in recent studies in other U.S. cities. "
> 
> Comparing to many other markets was part of the study.


They used a handful of cities and the ITAR from 4 years ago. The numbers I'm using are from online sites that track wages, like salary.com, money.usnews, etc. that are current as of at least last year.

But if you want more "official" numbers, here's a link to the Buruea of Labor Statistics: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/taxi-drivers-and-chauffeurs.htm

The 2015 median pay was $23,510. Depending on the standard deviation (likely around $2000 to $3000, but it's not posted) then the vast majority ( >= 75%) of taxi drivers make more than minimum wage.


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> Relax, taxis were making too much, you know it, and everyone on here who was taxi drivers complains about the low rate. But, reality is, it is exactly right and with right incentives, the pay is exactly right for drivers.


The Bureau of Labor Statistics disagrees with you. While most taxi drivers were pulling in more than minimum wage, with a median of $23K they weren't exactly rolling in dough. If you look at the historical income statistics, it doesn't get any better as you go back through the years.

So if you think $23k is too much, then you must be dancing a jig every time Uber slashes there rates.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Oh forgot to mention, yeah, such high skill that Uber is signing up thousands. If thousands can do it, it is matter of supply/demand; hence no need to pay more; I am being very generous with $25 per hour.
> 
> Thieves, your word, i was saying ripping off, referring to high rates, but it did remind me of new yorker cabbie hustling me over a fare; and stupid route he took, all to , and will say it now, "steal from me."
> 
> ...


Uber is signing up thousands of what? There is another one of your disconnects.

You continue to fail to state on what basis or authority you get to determine what anyone, cab driver, Uber driver, Wal-Mart worker, Icky-D's worker or anyone should earn. How are you qualified to make those statements? Who are you to make them?

If you were referring to "high rates" state that. "Ripping off" has a negative connotation. "Ripping off" is late 1960s slang for "stealing". If you have a comment to make about these allegedly "high rates" make it, but state "high rates".

You got "ripped off" by one New York cab driver, so that makes all cab drivers thieves? Is that what you are attempting to assert?

What makes you so sure that Uber will "grab that market share"?

More baseless statements with nothing offered to support them. That is what I have read from those of you TNC drivers who have an elitist attitude and are trying to advance your anti-taxi agenda. *It ain't us what's no "hilarious". Yer got that one thar' all backwards an' wrong side out.*


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> They used a handful of cities and the ITAR from 4 years ago. The numbers I'm using are from online sites that track wages, like salary.com, money.usnews, etc. that are current as of at least last year.


As I stated, the study was from 2012

But if you want to claim that in the face of UberLyft, taxi driver income has risen, then that is an extraordinary claim, requiring extraordinary evidence.



> The 2015 median pay was $23,510. .


Gross. Subtract gate fees and gas and other expenses, you get the results of the study.

$23k is $11.50 an hour btw


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> The Bureau of Labor Statistics disagrees with you. While most taxi drivers were pulling in more than minimum wage, with a median of $23K they weren't exactly rolling in dough. If you look at the historical income statistics, it doesn't get any better as you go back through the years.
> 
> So if you think $23k is too much, then you must be dancing a jig every time Uber slashes there rates.


I guess the discrepancy is in the number of rides a taxi driver took; charged a lot for fewer rides. Now, with Uber, charge little for more rides. Same income.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Uber is signing up thousands of what? There is another one of your disconnects.
> 
> You continue to fail to state on what basis or authority you get to determine what anyone, cab driver, Uber driver, Wal-Mart worker, Icky-D's worker or anyone should earn. How are you qualified to make those statements? Who are you to make them?
> 
> ...


What authority, under same authority that grants all members here to post their opinion on message boards. It is very safe to say, LOW Skill = LOW Pay. And I know it bugs you, but you have not convinced me otherwise that driving people around is a great skill that only a few can do and justify higher pay. A doctor, requires high skill and education, hence, they can charge more per hour as there are a lot less of them, hence, supply/demand.

Uber will grab that market share; people are more comfortable with Uber, there is less and less coverage on the news about Uber drivers causing accidents. Which to me means the news is starting to support Uber; and now, more people will not feel the hesitation to drive in some personal vehicle over a "professional" taxi driver in a cab.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


Have you been a waiter or a cabbie? I'm not a fan of driving for cabs, but I had family that would do it part time when I was a teen for extra vacation money and they were doing better than minimum wage. And I've worked as a waiter in several places, the lowest I earned on average was $15/hour at Chili's and well over $40/hour for Marriott.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

And anyone who thinks waiting tables is easy/low skill either never waited tables or sucked at it.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

I am also going to say....

Taxi drivers make and have always made more than any survey done would actually show (or statistical analysis by the IRS or department of labor ect)... what possible reason could a cab driver have to accurately report their income... they have no boss over their shoulder, cash tips can disappear easily, (easier than in a restaurant) You don't have waiters and waitresses being told to "hide your money while you are on the job" for your own safety. It's also so easy to do extra cash trips off the books, and all of this extra is entirely untraceable.

If I use just $5 a day in loose cash to buy a samich and a couple of drinks.. that's $1,000 a year skirting the IRS. $20 a day could be easily pulled and used for things like groceries, dog food, diapers... and no one would ever know.

And driving a taxi is better than about 3 minimum wage jobs, maybe four, because driving a taxi you will be able to get enough hours to pay your bills. On a regular minimum wage job it might take 3 jobs to get the same number of hours i can get driving a taxi a week, and i set my own hours.

At the end of the day, a taxi driver could undereport their income, pay less in taxes, be more eligible for things like food stamps, and all that extra income is untraceable assuming they never deposit the extra money into their checking account.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry





drexl_s said:


> opinion


The word in the second quote is the operative word that describes everything that you have posted on this topic as well as some of the other anti-taxi verbiage that you have posted elsewhere on these Boards. In fact, you have amply demonstrated that your "opinion" on this subject is totally divorced from the facts.

There is a difference between opinion and fact. Perhaps someone failed to inform you of that. You may now consider yourself informed and conduct yourself accordingly.

Until you have facts,, the word in the first quote, which is the first word in the Original Post, applies. (*HINT:* _*It don't apply to me or nothin' i dun' did wrote.*_)


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The word in the second quote is the operative word that describes everything that you have posted on this topic as well as some of the other anti-taxi verbiage that you have posted elsewhere on these Boards. In fact, you have amply demonstrated that your "opinion" on this subject is totally divorced from the facts.
> 
> There is a difference between opinion and fact. Perhaps someone failed to inform you of that. You may now consider yourself informed and conduct yourself accordingly.
> 
> Until you have facts,, the word in the first quote, which is the first word in the Original Post, applies. (*HINT:* _*It don't apply to me or nothin' i dun' did wrote.*_)


What I write is true and accurate. Good luck to you.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> What I write is true and accurate.


Another statement totally lacking in support. Keep it up, the more that you post, the more that you disprove anything that you post.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Another statement totally lacking in support. Keep it up, the more that you post, the more that you disprove anything that you post.


Darn it, you got me hooked. Show me any support, that states driving people takes "skill" above what everyone already proved they have by owning a driver's license. My support and fact is, every soccer mom that drives kids around to practice. Proof, all mom's have the skill. So show me, what additional skill does the soccer mom lack. That is your argument, you are stating that driving requires some special skill. It does not, you state it does, then show your evidence. You can't.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> *1. *Show me any support, that states driving people takes "skill" above what everyone already proved they have by owning a driver's license.
> 
> *2. *My support and fact is, every soccer mom that drives kids around to practice.
> 
> ...


1. You made the statements, it is incumbent on you to support them when challenged. Please do not ask me to do your job for you.

2. Irrelevant. It is, at best (and I am pushing it by giving it that much credit), a poor analogy.

3. Again, that is your job. You made the statements, you back up the statements. Do your job.........or can you?

4. There is no call for that statement.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> 1. You made the statements, it is incumbent on you to support them when challenged. Please do not ask me to do your job for you.
> 
> 2. Irrelevant. It is, at best (and I am pushing it by giving it that much credit), a poor analogy.
> 
> ...


Here, correction, official title as used by social securitu, semi-skilled job; note a "fast food cook" is ranked higher as a skilled work.

www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unskilled-work-semi-skilled-work-skilled-work-social-security-disability.html

And as for labor, since you further require proof, I said good wage for taxi is $25, 2080 hrs in a year is about $50,000. This article also confirms my statement, middle-skill 25,000 to 59,000. My official classification was not right, but my general message was on point.

www.businessinsider.com/job-share-growth-by-skill-level-2014-9

I am pretty sure you won't accept these, but I got my message accross. Good luck.


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## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> The Bureau of Labor Statistics disagrees with you. While most taxi drivers were pulling in more than minimum wage, with a median of $23K they weren't exactly rolling in dough. If you look at the historical income statistics, it doesn't get any better as you go back through the years.
> 
> So if you think $23k is too much, then you must be dancing a jig every time Uber slashes there rates.


TAXI DRIVERS ONLY REPORT RECEIPTS - NON-CASH INCOME! WHICH IS PROBABLY MUCH LESS THAN 1/2 THEIR ACTUAL INCOME!


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Ms.Doe said:


> TAXI DRIVERS ONLY REPORT RECEIPTS - NON-CASH INCOME! WHICH IS PROBABLY MUCH LESS THAN 1/2 THEIR ACTUAL INCOME!


I wouldn't say that any taxi driver is less than forthcoming with the IRS, or for that matter, Child support court.

But the opportunity to get away with it was there. When I was driving Yellow Cab 20 years ago, I received no 1099 form from YC. The company didn't know my social security number, or even if I had an ssn, they only saw my valid drivers license and hack license from the city. The income I reported to the IRS was based upon my honor.

Of course, back in those 90's, the business was 90% cash, most of the rest were people with YC accounts and AMEX was the only plastic that was accepted.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Ms.Doe said:


> TAXI DRIVERS ONLY REPORT RECEIPTS - NON-CASH INCOME! WHICH IS PROBABLY MUCH LESS THAN 1/2 THEIR ACTUAL INCOME!


So instead of admitting taxi driver income is pathetic, you've instead opted to claim that _every single taxi driver_ is a felonious tax cheat.

I hope that goes well for you.


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## Uberdancer (Mar 25, 2016)

So... Quit ... give us your riders ...


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## LASAC_BER (May 19, 2016)

but, other minimum wage jobs do not require you to bring your 5-20k (or more) machine to work - insure it, maintain it, etc.

The only thing it has going for it (uber) is that the hours are as many or as little as you choose to work...wherever you choose to work...and it has the 'gamble' aspect that is addicting. When will I hook that 4x surge 40 mile ride? Keep driving to find out!


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

To the OP: Who are you to say whether or not it's a minimum wage job or not. I make pretty good money at it, and I like it. Probably because I no longer driver uber. If it's low skill then be it.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Here, correction, official title as used by social securitu, but I got my message accross. Good luck.


Allright, finally, something. Perhaps we can attempt a civilised discussion of this after all.

I will start with the second link. I read the article. The text below the graphs particullarly piqued my attention. In summary, it states that automation is replacing mid-skilled jobs rather than low-skilled jobs and high-skilled jobs. The article lists fast food workers, as a whole, as "low-skilled".

If you will read the NEWS section of these Boards, you will read numerous postings on self-driving vehicles. Said vehicles seek to replace the jobs that now are being done by, among others, taxicab drivers. This places said drivers in the mid-skilled range, if, in fact, it is the mid-skilled jobs after which the computers are going.

The connexion, here, is that while the article does not come out and state it, it is not unreasonable to consider that the writers of this article would consider the driver to be on a higher skill plane than they would a fast food cook. This is in direct conflict with what you pointed out that the first link demonstrates.

.....................on to the first link..................................

Keep in mind that _*nolo*_ is a publishing house for do-it-yourself legal documents. That makes it a somewhat-less-than-reliable authority in a discussion of this nature. In fact, there is a contradiction in the job skill classifications that it lists. It lists "fast food worker" as "unskilled", while listing "fast food cook" as "skilled". I will pass over, for the moment, that calling a burger flipper a "skilled labourer" would fail the Laugh Test miserably. Instead, for the moment, at least, I will submit that the difference in skill levels among a fast food cashier, french fry maker or burger flipper is not that great.

As support for the last statement, kindly permit me to offer experience. I learned to flip burgers from watching my parents do it. By the time that I was ten, I could flip my own burgers. I am a disaster in the kitchen, but, I could at least learn to flip burgers by age ten. If I, disaster in the kitchen that I am, can learn to flip burgers at age ten, any idiot can learn to do it and likely could learn to do it more quickly than did I.

Moreover, the way that the link classifies some occupations is curious, but, again, do keep in mind that the document under discussion comes from a do-it-yourself legal publishing company and not the Bureau of Labour Statistics or any office of the Department of Labour, for that matter.

It classifies a "sewing machine operator" as unskilled. If you do not know what you are doing at one of those things, your Superintendent will reject your pieces.

It classifies a Customer Service Representative as a "skilled worker". If you have not already, I invite you to read some of the topics and messages posted to these Boards on Uber's or Lyft's Customer Service Representatives. The complaints were strident enough when the Customer Service Representatives were still based in the U.S. of A. Now that the CSRs are based in Pondicherry, Bangalore and Quezon City, said complaints are louder and more bitter than ever they have been. It appears that in order to be a Customer Service Representative who is allegedly rendering "service" to English-speaking customers, you need not have a command of the English Language that even approaches that of a fifth grader.

Thus, I have a problem with how this publisher of do-it-yourself legal forms classifies jobs by skill level.

Next, please consider the title that you gave to this topic as well as your Original Post. Your title and Original Post assert that taxi driving is a minimum wage job. Yet, the links that you offer in support of your arguments contradict that. Your legal form publisher puts flight attendants in the same category as taxi drivers, the latter whom you insist are minimum wage workers. My sister is a flight attendant. She always has earned more than minimum wage. Your publisher puts nursing assistant in the same category as taxi drivers, again, the latter whom you insist are minimum wage workers. According to the Bureau of Labour Statistics, the mean hourly wage for a Certified Nursing Assistant is US$12,86; the median, US$12,36. It does not list a modal wage. Both of those figures are above the Federal Minimum Wage. See www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes311014.htm .

There are further curiosities in how your publisher classifies job skills, but, as this is pushing into TL;dr territory, _*if'n it ain't thar' already*_, I will pause, for the moment.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

OP, I think you are using the wrong word in 'skilled.' It does take skill to safely and efficiently drive an automobile. It does not require a College or even High School _Education. _Being a short-order cook, or for that matter a chef, does not require an education either, rather experience and *skill*.

I actually get what you are saying, and to be honest, we would probably not be having this conversation if Uber would not have, in the first place said, _The Tip is Included._


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> They average waitperson in the US makes *$21,640*. The U.S average for taxi drivers is *$25,690. *The federal minimum wage is *$15,080.* So no, waiters and taxi drivers are making more than minimum wage.
> 
> In addition, waiters and waitresses usually get benefits in addition to their wages.
> 
> Taxi drivers are often employed as independent contractors (like Uber drivers), so most of them have to cover themselves and their expenses.


Get real. Minimum wage in San Francisco and many other major cities minimum wage is going up. Out her it will be $16 per hour in 2017. That means in San Francisco a full-time burger flipper will take home $33,280 a year.


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

REX HAVOC said:


> Get real. Minimum wage in San Francisco and many other major cities minimum wage is going up. Out her it will be $16 per hour in 2017. That means in San Francisco a full-time burger flipper will take home $33,280 a year.


San Francisco is NOT "national average", which is what I was talking about. You chose a city with one of the highest costs of living in the world as your benchmark. That's really not representative of the US.

http://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/06075

MIT's living wage calculator. Required annual income for a single adult based on living costs is $30K in SF. So $33K is in the right ballpark. Looking for cheap? Try Detroit. 

Regardless, there are a number of higher cost of living areas across the country raising their own minimum wages, but the national one isn't moving. In places where the min is increasing, many independent transportation contractors (taxis, Uber, etc.) won't make a minimum wage unless rates are adjusted.


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## Max_Stout (Aug 18, 2016)

shiftydrake said:


> I know I am not making $21,460 I make $39-42 k each and every year depending on how summer season goes this year I'm tracking $41,000........for 2015 I profited $42,325 and paid absolutely $0 in taxes cuz of all my write-offs


So am I, driving for Uberx (no Stool).


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Good for you I guess........dont matter to me


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## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

Euius said:


> So instead of admitting taxi driver income is pathetic, you've instead opted to claim that _every single taxi driver_ is a felonious tax cheat.




I never said neither. You did.


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## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

Euius said:


> I hope that goes well for you.


Thank you! I appreciate the well wishes!


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Forgot to add, I am not efficient on dead miles, so almost all income from driving is tax free, as the mileage deduction reduces my income close to zero.


Once you do the taxes for the first time, dead miles suddenly are not your enemy.

Just keep in mind that you probably won't be able to use your income should you every apply for a mortgage or other loan that asks for your tax return to verify income.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


Taxi drivers do rely on tips. No question about it.

Uber drivers are taxi's and need to be relying on tips to make this profitable. However, getting a tip on the uber platform is not as guaranteed as lets say.. a actual taxi because of Uber policy. We don't need to go into Uber policy on tipping since this has been the #1 topic on this site.

If your referring to getting tips on Lyft, I dont care, since this is a uber forum


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## u-Boat (Jan 4, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


It doesn't have to be that way. If Govt would get out the way with their regulations and uBer/Lyft with their low rates I could make a hell of a lot more in my market.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

u-Boat said:


> It doesn't have to be that way. If Govt would get out the way with their regulations and uBer/Lyft with their low rates I could make a hell of a lot more in my market.


Translation: So long as there isn't competition underpricing you, you could charge what you want

Well. Duuuhhhh


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## 1995flyingspur (Aug 18, 2016)

EcoboostMKS said:


> Are you basing this on personal experience? How many years did you drive a taxi?
> 
> I drove a taxi about a decade ago for about 3 or 4 years and made way more than minimum wage, but that's just my personal experience. I realize it's a completely different environment now compared to then, but taxi driving is not a one size fits all type job when it comes to pay. A lot of things factor into the drivers income.
> 
> ...


I'm a good example of a driver who is somewhat close to dispatch, & I very often do "clean up"! Keep in mind that on a freeway driving roughly 70mph, we are making over $3.50/minute.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

1995flyingspur said:


> I'm a good example of a driver who is somewhat close to dispatch, & I very often do "clean up"! Keep in mind that on a freeway driving roughly 70mph, we are making over $3.50/minute.


But that is just crazy to me. A ride to airport would cost as much as the plane ticket.


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## 1995flyingspur (Aug 18, 2016)

Euius said:


> Except I didn't. You stopped at the first sentence and refused to read further:
> 
> "These low hourly wages are consistent with thosefound in recent studies in other U.S. cities. "
> 
> Comparing to many other markets was part of the study.


I know in a perfect world hacks would claim all of their income but in this good old taxi world, there's too much cash to keep an accurate accounting...though we do our best so that the statistics can be reliable.


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## 1995flyingspur (Aug 18, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> But that is just crazy to me. A ride to airport would cost as much as the plane ticket.


On average a trip to SFO is $100. I don't think that's too much to ask for. After fuel, maintenance, toll, commercial insurance, etc I'm probably looking at $70 take home... maybe a bit less. We're just about 30 miles outside of both the Oakland and SFO airports.


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## 1995flyingspur (Aug 18, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> Darn it, you got me hooked. Show me any support, that states driving people takes "skill" above what everyone already proved they have by owning a driver's license. My support and fact is, every soccer mom that drives kids around to practice. Proof, all mom's have the skill. So show me, what additional skill does the soccer mom lack. That is your argument, you are stating that driving requires some special skill. It does not, you state it does, then show your evidence. You can't.


It's very easy to drive... you're right about that. Anyone with a brain stem can do it. Driving well isn't so easy however, and anyone who drives as their profession will be infinitely more experienced than the regular idiots on the road. A pro will more likely avoid accidents while the idiots don't. That's probably one of the biggest differences. Again... it's not about skill, it's about experience.


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## Lag Monkey (Feb 6, 2015)

Uber is an easy job huh? Well let's see a robot due it then! Oh wait..


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## JohnnyAngel (Aug 3, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


Meanwhile there's plenty of Uber drivers who will argue against any attempt to encourage passengers to tip, and who give 5 stars to passengers who don't tip.


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## Dutch-Ub (Mar 1, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> But that is just crazy to me. A ride to airport would cost as much as the plane ticket.


Not on a private jet


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Teenagers were among the soldiers who stormed the beach at Normandy. But that was easy, right? Let's just address this as what it is, an ineffective blanket statement. Anyone can do any job. Not everyone can do every job well.

Half my riders tip. Granted, that ratio was 99.99% when I served tables but thanks to uber most riders think all rideshares have a gratuity included. Can't blame them for a lie they were told over and over.


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## u-Boat (Jan 4, 2016)

Euius said:


> Translation: So long as there isn't competition underpricing you, you could charge what you want
> 
> Well. Duuuhhhh


Wrong. Translation: Many clients and customers in various markets understand the value of a superior product and service and are willing to pay a surplus for that superior product and service. Duuuhhhh.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> show me the study/report that states what makes this job dangerous.


Hacking, TNC driving or both? TNC driving has not been around that long, so I do not know if there is such a study or report. There are reports that put hacking high on the list of dangerous jobs.

Anyhow, here is one:

www.time.com/4326676/dangerous-jobs-america/

This is a Fourth Estate source rather than a Department of Labour source. Timedotcom does state that it comes from the Bureau of Labour Statistics. Still, it _*ain't*_ like Time/Life is the _*Weekly World News*_ or whatever grocery store tabloid..................

Hacking is number ten on the list,


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## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


Just try to drive without GPS.It is only the invention of GPS which makes taxi driving easy and low skilled.Before GPS era, they used to make good money.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> I don't know the safe limit


I would suspect that California would have a limit on the number of hours behind the wheel in a twenty-four hour period. I do not k now what it is, as I am not as familiar with California Law as I used to be.

Here:

District of Columbia-Twelve hours in a twenty four hour period, unless there is an unbroken eight hour rest period.

Commonwealth of Virginia-Thirteen hours in a twenty four hour period

State of Maryland-Twelve hours in a twenty-four hour period.

I would suspect that California would be similar. This is largely unenforceable for a private car. Conceivably, Uber could log you off after twelve, or whatever hours. There are some jurisdictions where the taxi technology will shut down after twelve hours, Commercial vehicles do keep logs. although you can falsify those, as well.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Hacking, TNC driving or both? TNC driving has not been around that long, so I do not know if there is such a study or report. There are reports that put hacking high on the list of dangerous jobs.
> 
> Anyhow, here is one:
> 
> ...


This link, same year, has 10 deaths per 100k attributed to driving; I can then presume that 8 additional deaths are the hazard of the "driver" profession. I am "reaching" here, but I am trying to separate death from driving, and death from pax holding you up and shooting you in the back of the head. I am not saying that being a driver is a safe job, far from it; heck I drive the flats of Oakland at 2am. I do carry pepper spray, but not much it can do against a bullet. Anyhow, maybe there should be different "night" rates vs "day" rates. Hey, I used to work night shift and get 20% premium. Drivers get more, for hazard pay.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/state-by-state-overview


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Elephant said:


> Just try to drive without GPS.It is only the invention of GPS which makes taxi driving easy and low skilled.Before GPS era, they used to make good money.


The range/area of service is different. You start out local area, and learn the streets fairly quickly; also, you stop/wait for pax at train stations and usually those are local rides home. With Uber, you need GPS, last night, i went from east bay to SF, to San Rafeal, to Vallejo, Concord, then DF back to east bay. No way pros know all the roads, so probably do what i do, I know how to get to major roads by city, most, and then I ask, what is your best route, and look down at GPS just to be sure it is not way too different. I hate to look at GPS and have it in windshield, it is distracting.


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## 1995flyingspur (Aug 18, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> I am also going to say....
> 
> Taxi drivers make and have always made more than any survey done would actually show (or statistical analysis by the IRS or department of labor ect)... what possible reason could a cab driver have to accurately report their income... they have no boss over their shoulder, cash tips can disappear easily, (easier than in a restaurant) You don't have waiters and waitresses being told to "hide your money while you are on the job" for your own safety. It's also so easy to do extra cash trips off the books, and all of this extra is entirely untraceable.
> 
> ...


I was hacking long before Uber and continue now as Uber exists. We make no less now than we did then! Uber has created a new market, filled with those who used to bus or walk... that's definitely the case in Marin County at least. Cheap services attract cheap customers.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

1995flyingspur said:


> I was hacking long before Uber and continue now as Uber exists. We make no less now than we did then! Uber has created a new market, filled with those who used to bus or walk... that's definitely the case in Marin County at least. Cheap services attract cheap customers.


So, are you saying that with lower rates, you personally, make the same, and I presume from more pickups/dropoffs of cheap rides?


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## EcoboostMKS (Nov 6, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> But that is just crazy to me. A ride to airport would cost as much as the plane ticket.


It's crazy to you because uber is all you know in this business. Before uber was around, everyone was paying those rates to be driven around in crown vics, grand marquis, and lincoln town cars with 300k plus miles. It was the norm and everyone accepted it and didn't think twice about it.

I run my own limo business these days since i was able to scoop up enough regulars during my taxi days, but still charge similar to what taxi companies charge, but in a much nicer car. Nothing i do is less than $100 per trip. My rates are typically $3 to $4 per mile and it's all highway. I actually don't charge by the mile anymore, but that's what it typically equates to.

It's not taxi work, but people and the corporate account i have still gladly pay it. It's just a lot harder to find new business these days than it used to be. This was all the norm for all car services before uber decided to charge 75 cents per mile.


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## 1995flyingspur (Aug 18, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> So, are you saying that with lower rates, you personally, make the same, and I presume from more pickups/dropoffs of cheap rides?


I'm sorry, I didn't clarify. I'm an actual hack, don't work for Uber. Our rates haven't dropped.


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## 1995flyingspur (Aug 18, 2016)

EcoboostMKS said:


> It's crazy to you because uber is all you know in this business. Before uber was around, everyone was paying those rates to be driven around in crown vics, grand marquis, and lincoln town cars with 300k plus miles. It was the norm and everyone accepted it and didn't think twice about it.
> 
> I run my own limo business these days since i was able to scoop up enough regulars during my taxi days, but still charge similar to what taxi companies charge, but in a much nicer car. Nothing i do is less than $100 per trip. My rates are typically $3 to $4 per mile and it's all highway. I actually don't charge by the mile anymore, but that's what it typically equates to.
> 
> It's not taxi work, but people and the corporate account i have still gladly pay it. It's just a lot harder to find new business these days than it used to be. This was all the norm for all car services before uber decided to charge 75 cents per mile.


Uber has hurt the industry while exploiting desperate, out of work people who had mostly left the job market. The Uber drivers certainly don't benefit with that horrible rate. I have noticed over the last several weeks however, that there seem to be a lot more real cabs & town car types running around loaded with people. I have also noticed the Uber drivers haven't been looking too happy. I'm talking about San Francisco. Maybe those drivers are starting to see they're in a dead end job and are slowely killing their personal cars. We are all paying the price, taxi, Uber, & limos while that idiot loses BILLIONS of dollars. In what world has it become acceptable to operate your business at massive losses? This whole tech gig crap is simply a giant cancerous bubble. I only hope these Uber drivers eventually unionize so their rates will be even higher than ours & with minimum wage going straight up, it might just happen.


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## ptuberx (Jun 28, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> I agree, plus, I can drive it anytime, any schedule I want. People just need to accept this fact, you drive for minimum wage. Now, there are ways to get paid more, either get real good at asking for tips without annoying the pax; buy more efficient car, work the surge on uber, or any other incentive given you. Since I am truly partime, I go for the extra $100 for 50 rides, I do it in less than 25 hours of driving a week, and it is great extra cash for the period I would otherwise go drinking or play computer games at home.


You get $100 for 50 rides? What market are you in? I've done 1011 trips in nine weeks, and never seen this incentive in my market. I keep getting the "refer a friend to drive" incentive, which I never do.


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## ptuberx (Jun 28, 2016)

1995flyingspur said:


> Uber has hurt the industry while exploiting desperate, out of work people who had mostly left the job market. The Uber drivers certainly don't benefit with that horrible rate. I have noticed over the last several weeks however, that there seem to be a lot more real cabs & town car types running around loaded with people. I have also noticed the Uber drivers haven't been looking too happy. I'm talking about San Francisco. Maybe those drivers are starting to see they're in a dead end job and are slowely killing their personal cars. We are all paying the price, taxi, Uber, & limos while that idiot loses BILLIONS of dollars. In what world has it become acceptable to operate your business at massive losses? This whole tech gig crap is simply a giant cancerous bubble. I only hope these Uber drivers eventually unionize so their rates will be even higher than ours & with minimum wage going straight up, it might just happen.


Uber can SAY that it is losing money (they were in China, until they just sold it and cut their losses), but look at the big picture. Uber is still growing, with a worth of $63 billion. What is their overhead? Practically nothing, except for app developers and marketers. They soak a percentage of everything, and unlike a cab company, they don't have to worry about every other cost that comes with running a cab company. They probably spend more in lawyers when breaking into new markets, but again, that is an unknown expense. Uber first, customer second, driver last... the customer sees this as "customer first," which is wise on Uber's part to secure more customer base. In the end, this helps everyone. I just hope that at some point it levels out. But if anyone thinks for a second that Uber is losing money, they are mistaken. They are a marketing-driven tech firm that guarantees that they make money at every point of sale. It is hard to believe they could blow it at this point given the massive platform that has been created.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

EcoboostMKS said:


> It's crazy to you because uber is all you know in this business. Before uber was around, everyone was paying those rates to be driven around in crown vics, grand marquis, and lincoln town cars with 300k plus miles. It was the norm and everyone accepted it and didn't think twice about it.
> 
> I run my own limo business these days since i was able to scoop up enough regulars during my taxi days, but still charge similar to what taxi companies charge, but in a much nicer car. Nothing i do is less than $100 per trip. My rates are typically $3 to $4 per mile and it's all highway. I actually don't charge by the mile anymore, but that's what it typically equates to.
> 
> It's not taxi work, but people and the corporate account i have still gladly pay it. It's just a lot harder to find new business these days than it used to be. This was all the norm for all car services before uber decided to charge 75 cents per mile.


Uberx is not meant to take away from your business, I mean, Uber has Uberblack for you. Don't know exactly what the rate is, but it is definitely closer to $3 per mile. In fact, I use black car service (not uber's) for myself when I need a ride to airport; guys show up in suits, open all the doors and take care of luggage. When they pick me up at airport, they meet me at luggage claim, and again, help with luggage and provide super service. All uberx is cheaper taxi; take from point A to point B; for as little as possible. Uber just showed everyone, you and I can take people to their destination, and do it for less. I just wonder how the taxi medallion owners are dealing with it; I want to say those medallions are becoming worthless, but not sure yet.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

ptuberx said:


> You get $100 for 50 rides? What market are you in? I've done 1011 trips in nine weeks, and never seen this incentive in my market. I keep getting the "refer a friend to drive" incentive, which I never do.


San Francisco, "Power Driver Plus" $100 for 50; $500 for 120.


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## ptuberx (Jun 28, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> San Francisco, "Power Driver Plus" $100 for 50; $500 for 120.


I haven't seen that in my market, however we did have a guarantee for incentive for driving during our State Fair, which draws in 1.1-1.2 million people, and it did pay out an incentive of an extra $100. Earlier promotions have been Friday/Saturday night promotions in our popular downtown area, with "guaranteed" hourly rates... but the incentive really is that the Surge and demand usually takes away from the added incentive on fares, so driving on Surge soaks is up, and there is nothing offered above that.


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## TahoeAl (Feb 12, 2016)

u-Boat said:


> Wrong. Translation: Many clients and customers in various markets understand the value of a superior product and service and are willing to pay a surplus for that superior product and service. Duuuhhhh.


The first translation was better. Are you telling us the govt. is stopping you from registering you car as a limo; getting the proper insurance; and charging what the market can bear?


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## NFIH (Jul 26, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> You right, it would not be funny, and the beauty with technology, uber can and should control how long people drive. I don't know the safe limit, personaly, on the weekend, 10 hours, that would be my max limit; I usually do 7 hours. 90 hours in a week, damn, that sounds crazy to me, but I guess it leaves no choice for some.


Wait. So is it 7 hours daily or 90 hours total? Because the latter is 13 hours/day, 7 days/week.

Which is totally nuts.


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## AmericanTaxiOptima (Aug 5, 2016)

1995flyingspur said:


> Uber has hurt the industry while exploiting desperate, out of work people who had mostly left the job market. The Uber drivers certainly don't benefit with that horrible rate. I have noticed over the last several weeks however, that there seem to be a lot more real cabs & town car types running around loaded with people. I have also noticed the Uber drivers haven't been looking too happy. I'm talking about San Francisco. Maybe those drivers are starting to see they're in a dead end job and are slowely killing their personal cars. We are all paying the price, taxi, Uber, & limos while that idiot loses BILLIONS of dollars. In what world has it become acceptable to operate your business at massive losses? This whole tech gig crap is simply a giant cancerous bubble. I only hope these Uber drivers eventually unionize so their rates will be even higher than ours & with minimum wage going straight up, it might just happen.


I have noticed something similar in Chicago especially in the suburbs. Lots of empty ubers, lots of loaded 303 cabs and American cabs. Can't tell if it's because there's an over saturation of Ubers or if the rate cuts weeded out the good uber drivers leaving only the crazies left to drive.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

u-Boat said:


> Wrong. Translation: Many clients and customers in various markets understand the value of a superior product and service and are willing to pay a surplus for that superior product and service. Duuuhhhh.


That's absolutely true, and random taxis are invariably a _worse_ product.

Every weekend I pickup random tourists who are gushing about this "Uber thing" and swearing off taxis forever. The market for taxis are the same as for smoking: Ignorant people and old people. Between getting a clue and dying, your market is shrinking.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Euius said:


> That's absolutely true, and random taxis are invariably a _worse_ product.
> 
> Every weekend I pickup random tourists who are gushing about this "Uber thing" and swearing off taxis forever.
> 
> ...


The first quoted statement is a _* BROAD AND FALSE STATEMENT*_.

Every day I pick up people who complain about UberX and Lyft. Mostly they complain about hoopty cars and lost drivers, often who never find the pick-up point.

Just as the Original Poster, you demonstrate a lack of familiarity with your subject thus are reduced to namecalling and exaggeration in a feeble attempt to advance your anti-taxi agenda.

The last quoted statement is further demonstration of you lack of familiarity with your subject and the namecalling to which you must resort.


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## EcoboostMKS (Nov 6, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Uberx is not meant to take away from your business, I mean, Uber has Uberblack for you. Don't know exactly what the rate is, but it is definitely closer to $3 per mile. In fact, I use black car service (not uber's) for myself when I need a ride to airport; guys show up in suits, open all the doors and take care of luggage. When they pick me up at airport, they meet me at luggage claim, and again, help with luggage and provide super service. All uberx is cheaper taxi; take from point A to point B; for as little as possible. Uber just showed everyone, you and I can take people to their destination, and do it for less. I just wonder how the taxi medallion owners are dealing with it; I want to say those medallions are becoming worthless, but not sure yet.


Agreed with all that. I have an uber black account and use it every once in a while. At least I did until it was eliminated in CT and replaced with "premium" where you don't even need all the commercial licensing that was required for uber black. Now everyone with a white bmw 3 series can pickup on "premium" like me. Kind of a shame because I scooped up a few clients from uber black and it paid well. It was more expensive than what I typically charge, so it was easy to steal away people.

Taxi medallions are becoming worthless, but still have some value. Same goes for taxi companies in general. They're really hurting. The taxi company i used to work for is owned by a good friend i went to high school with. When uber came to CT a few years ago, he was told to sell the company, but he's always used the place as an ATM and didn't want to. That was a huge mistake. It's always been a cash cow for him. He's recently had to take a few loans out against his company just to keep it open. Uberx has destroyed the taxi business.


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## EcoboostMKS (Nov 6, 2015)

1995flyingspur said:


> Uber has hurt the industry while exploiting desperate, out of work people who had mostly left the job market. The Uber drivers certainly don't benefit with that horrible rate. I have noticed over the last several weeks however, that there seem to be a lot more real cabs & town car types running around loaded with people. I have also noticed the Uber drivers haven't been looking too happy. I'm talking about San Francisco. Maybe those drivers are starting to see they're in a dead end job and are slowely killing their personal cars. We are all paying the price, taxi, Uber, & limos while that idiot loses BILLIONS of dollars. In what world has it become acceptable to operate your business at massive losses? This whole tech gig crap is simply a giant cancerous bubble. I only hope these Uber drivers eventually unionize so their rates will be even higher than ours & with minimum wage going straight up, it might just happen.


Exactly. This is supposed to be creating jobs, but uber's end game is to eliminate all those jobs and replace them with robots. Taxi driving used to be a good way to make a living. If uber had it's way, it would be completely obsolete and a lot of people will be without a paycheck. But at least uber and it's private investors will get rich. All from the hard work of the people they're exploiting and hoping to make jobless.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

Taxis also have to pay like 3K a month for the rental of the Taxi to the Taxi company.


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## Ubereater (Dec 25, 2015)

I am pretty sure Drexel is a dude who supplies hookers and coke for TK and co lol..

Shhhh...there is a suitcase full of snuff under drexel's bed


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## EcoboostMKS (Nov 6, 2015)

Ozzyoz said:


> Taxis also have to pay like 3K a month for the rental of the Taxi to the Taxi company.


Not always true. You do typically need to pay the taxi company weekly payments, but cars can and are owned by drivers. And it's typically anywhere from like $300 to $500 per week, so less than $3k per month. Sometimes that includes the car and sometimes the cars are driver owned. This does include the cost of taxi commercial insurance and licensing which typically runs $5000 plus per year.


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## strongarm (May 15, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


Nobel Peace prize award! Yes after expenses it probably is not much more than min wage. Sounds like Uber and Lyft. The taxis may also have local licensing and regulations as well. In fact here in Austin Uber and Lyft do not operate because they will not follow local regulations that are in place for all other transportation services. The big one fingerprint background checks. If anything Uber a Lyft drivers are just some person who Uber and Lyft "background checked" with a license. I think successful livery drivers are good and build a client list. When you drive a taxi atleast your beating the shit out of a yellow cab not a 30,000 purchase of your own. The tip part is funny too wish I could get a survey of how many people still tip.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> You can't cherry pick and then extrapolate to the whole market. NYC taxi drivers, on average, make a little over $38,000 a year, which is significantly above minimum wage. But I can't say that's what all taxi drivers make.
> 
> I was using national statistics on taxi driver wages, and the probability distribution shows that all except for a tiny percentage make above minimum wage.


$38k in NYC is pretty low wage


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> How many cabbies and severs report 100% of their income? I was good friends with a guy who bartended. He made 1000-1500 a week cash some weeks more, a lot of weeks. Very few less.
> 
> But at mcD's , you get free McNuggets!


You say that like it was a good thing


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Rat said:


> You say that like it was a good thing


I can proudly and honestly say that I have never eaten a McNugget...


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> I can proudly and honestly say that I have never eaten a McNugget...


Exactly what part of a chicken is a "nugget"?


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## Xxx sucker (Jan 3, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


I only have a question for you my friend.
Why that many people are so interesting after this job if it's like you said?????? I have my doubts! Lol


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Rat said:


> Exactly what part of a chicken is a "nugget"?


Parts is parts....


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> Parts is parts....


Most parts are edible?


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

strongarm said:


> The tip part is funny too wish I could get a survey of how many people still tip.


 This actually makes my sides hurt from laughing so hard/much.......the "funny" thing is most people tip a real cab driver....just not an Uber driver....no,w that's the funny part I make more per mile PLUS flag drop(what meter starts at when turned on to those who don't know) plus more per minute plus get to charge more for more pax....and people actually TIP me.......that's what's funny........you all Uber on


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

ANGRY UBER MAN said:


> You also must be able to put up with drunks and weirdos while being friendly and discrete. Similar to a bartender anyone could do it but would not last long or not make good money if they did the bare minimum.


Nightclub business I could go into work being broke, horny, hungry and sober & leave work with none of those problems.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Rat said:


> Most parts are edible?


I guess that's depends... are McNuggets edible?


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## strongarm (May 15, 2015)

shiftydrake said:


> This actually makes my sides hurt from laughing so hard/much.......the "funny" thing is most people tip a real cab driver....just not an Uber driver....no,w that's the funny part I make more per mile PLUS flag drop(what meter starts at when turned on to those who don't know) plus more per minute plus get to charge more for more pax....and people actually TIP me.......that's what's funny........you all Uber on


I'm in Austin we don't Uber. Deleted the app a long time ago. I decided to go back to school to get an IT degree. Since transportation will soon enough be autonomous not sure why you would want to hang on to driving a cab. My advice to people would be stay ahead of the technology and innovation curve or you'll be left behind like much of rural America is currently suffering. Technology & innovation is what is driving American job growth right now. Not driving.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

strongarm said:


> But Uber said I will make more money when riders get charged less! Lol. I was wondering how that worked. I thought I was just a shitty driver because I never made more than I did spring 2015. fUber lies!


Should of drove Jan '14, rates were almost double of '15


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

Euius said:


> As somebody who can't grasp the idea that income is about the total compensation, and not only the per mile rate, you really shouldn't bring up education.


You're not an employee of Uber. Uber does not "compensate" you. You pay a percentage of your revenue (fares) for the service they provide. That percentage is an expense. The cost per mile of operating your vehicle is also an expense.

Your business income is what's left over after expenses. This means you need to be really careful with how you account for expenses, since not all expenses are necessarily realized when they occur. For example, your car depreciation is not a realized expense until something happens to the car (getting in a wreck, selling it, etc.).


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

strongarm said:


> I'm in Austin we don't Uber. Deleted the app a long time ago. I decided to go back to school to get an IT degree. Since transportation will soon enough be autonomous not sure why you would want to hang on to driving a cab. My advice to people would be stay ahead of the technology and innovation curve or you'll be left behind like much of rural America is currently suffering. Technology & innovation is what is driving American job growth right now. Not driving.


That's great, just remember, after a full day of working behind a computer; you will feel like making some extra cash in your free time. You can then take on freelance projects where you bid your cost per project; but to me that just feels like more same work, and draining. Or, you can drive Uber. Sure, you make a lot less, I know I do, but there is still something cool about making extra $500 per week, after tax. Pretax, depending where you are that is like $800-900 per week. Time, 25 hours a week.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> You're not an employee of Uber. Uber does not "compensate" you. You pay a percentage of your revenue (fares) for the service they provide. That percentage is an expense. The cost per mile of operating your vehicle is also an expense.


Sigh



> to give money or something else of value to (someone) in return for something (such as work) or as payment for something lost, damaged, etc.


I am _compensated. _With both fares and incentive bonuses.

The whole "hurr durr, rider pays driver and driver pays commission" was a bad fiction at the start, and with the introduction of Pool and flat fares for X, it's not even possible to maintain that fantasy. So don't.

I am compensated for work performed at the behest of Uber, exactly like cable installers (also independent contractors) are compensated for work performed on the behest of Comcast.

The word compensation applies equally to relationships between businesses as well as a business and its employees. The company I work for during the day _compensates_ the real estate owner for use of the property, who in turn _compensates_ the janitorial service to get it cleaned, who in turn _compensates_ some employees to do the actual work.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Euius said:


> Sigh
> 
> I am _compensated. _With both fares and incentive bonuses.
> 
> ...


Ok, so, a prostitute gives her pimp's cut of $75 on $225 visit. Are you now going to say the Pimp pays the prostitute $150; or the John? So is the prostitute employee or 1099? Yes, this is a real life example from my past as a driver for escorts.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Uber don't want a driver putting in Palm Springs and picking up a 2.2x Boost at LAX is why they don't allow the Destination Filter with Boost.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> Ok, so, a prostitute gives her pimp's cut of $75 on $225 visit. Are you now going to say the Pimp pays the prostitute $150; or the John? So is the prostitute employee or 1099? Yes, this is a real life example from my past as a driver for escorts.


I fail to see how that is relevant. Uber is paying me, not the rider. Since the inception of Pool and now that flat fares are in place for UberX, there is no connection between _anything_ the rider pays to Uber and what Uber pays me. Uber can make 50% profit, or lose money, on any individual ride.

Further, you're describing a literal _illegal interaction._ The relationship of pimp and prostitute is not comparable to doing anything in business.

Back to the cable installer: You may pay comcast for the install, or you may be getting it for free. The installer doesn't care, they're getting paid by comcast.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Euius said:


> I fail to see how that is relevant. Uber is paying me, not the rider. Since the inception of Pool and now that flat fares are in place for UberX, there is no connection between _anything_ the rider pays to Uber and what Uber pays me. Uber can make 50% profit, or lose money, on any individual ride.
> 
> Further, you're describing a literal _illegal interaction._ The relationship of pimp and prostitute is not comparable to doing anything in business.
> 
> Back to the cable installer: You may pay comcast for the install, or you may be getting it for free. The installer doesn't care, they're getting paid by comcast.


The relevance, even though the stripper was collecting the full fee, she was a 1099 employee of the service, and she would send the service fee to the agency. My point, we are 1099 employees no matter what people say about being "compensated."


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## cieru (Jan 24, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> They average waitperson in the US makes *$21,640*. The U.S average for taxi drivers is *$25,690. *The federal minimum wage is *$15,080.* So no, waiters and taxi drivers are making more than minimum wage.
> thats avg, my friend in uber and yellowcab can easily topped 100k gross, mean they make at least 70 or 80k, it depend on how u work
> 
> In addition, waiters and waitresses usually get benefits in addition to their wages.
> ...


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Euius said:


> Further, you're describing a literal _illegal interaction._ The relationship of pimp and prostitute is not comparable to doing anything in business.


Even if "illegal", smart ones will pay taxes and invest. No longer money laundering, and you can own homes, and anything else that you need to show proof of income with prior tax returns.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> You want to point me to the part that says this is the UBER ONLY Pay discussion forum? Is Lyft that much higher in whatever theoretical market you're describing at $1/mile? Is my $1.22/mile in Boston that much more awesome than $1? If I'm earning $60k profit at $1.22, at 20% less ($0.98/mile) I'd still earn $48k...still doesn't sound like minimum wage to me....you're like every other troll that just focuses on the mileage charge. You just can't be bothered to actually do the leg-work and figure out how one can make this profitable.
> 
> When did I say I drive part-time? Are you high when you write this drivel? I said I work 41 hours/week on average AND I out-earn most cab drivers. What exactly do you think is a lie that needs editing? I've had conversations with 3 year olds high on red bull that made more sense than this.
> 
> I asked you to backup your math. The $3/ride math. The $1/mile=minimum wage math. The claim that Uber drivers don't actually profit. Back it up or shut up.


Don't be Dave.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> You want to point me to the part that says this is the UBER ONLY Pay discussion forum? Is Lyft that much higher in whatever theoretical market you're describing at $1/mile? Is my $1.22/mile in Boston that much more awesome than $1? If I'm earning $60k profit at $1.22, at 20% less ($0.98/mile) I'd still earn $48k...still doesn't sound like minimum wage to me....you're like every other troll that just focuses on the mileage charge. You just can't be bothered to actually do the leg-work and figure out how one can make this profitable.
> 
> When did I say I drive part-time? Are you high when you write this drivel? I said I work 41 hours/week on average AND I out-earn most cab drivers. What exactly do you think is a lie that needs editing? I've had conversations with 3 year olds high on red bull that made more sense than this.
> 
> I asked you to backup your math. The $3/ride math. The $1/mile=minimum wage math. The claim that Uber drivers don't actually profit. Back it up or shut up.


HAL: Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> Is my $1.22/mile in Boston that much more awesome than $1? If I'm earning $60k profit at $1.22, at 20% less ($0.98/mile) I'd still earn $48k


I find it next to impossible to gross $60k much less profit $60k at $1.22 rates. Some of my drivers net $60k, but that's at $2.50 rates. How many miles a year do you drive to profit $60k?


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## ninja warrior (Jan 10, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I find it next to impossible to gross $60k much less profit $60k at $1.22 rates. Some of my drivers net $60k, but that's at $2.50 rates. How many miles a year do you drive to profit $60k?


2 cars a year?


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

Euius said:


> I fail to see how that is relevant. Uber is paying me, not the rider.


Uber does not pay you. You do not earn a wage. You do not get a W-2. You are not registered anywhere as an employee in any legal sense of the word. You are a contractor. You have a contract that a) gives them a percentage of your fares for services rendered and b) allows them to act as manager of the account. The rider pays the fare, Uber takes their cut, then stashes the rest in your account for you. Any other incentives that Uber decides to give out goes through your contracting vehicle. At no time does it go through payroll.



Euius said:


> Since the inception of Pool and now that flat fares are in place for UberX, there is no connection between _anything_ the rider pays to Uber and what Uber pays me. Uber can make 50% profit, or lose money, on any individual ride.


The rider doesn't pay Uber. You do. The only reason why you don't see it is because you granted Uber the custodial right to manage your fares through an account on your behalf. The language in the contract itself that you agreed to when signing up for Uber leaves no ambiguity here.



Euius said:


> Further, you're describing a literal _illegal interaction._ The relationship of pimp and prostitute is not comparable to doing anything in business.


The analogy may be crude, but it gets the point across. You are a contractor (prostitute) that pays Uber a fee (Pimp) to hook you up with fares (Johns). Uber does not pay you out of it's revenue stream.



Euius said:


> Back to the cable installer: You may pay comcast for the install, or you may be getting it for free. The installer doesn't care, they're getting paid by comcast.


You have some serious misconceptions about how a contracting service like Uber works. Read the contract you agreed to. It spells it out pretty explicitly.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> *I've had conversations with 3 year olds high on red bull that made more sense than this.*


LOVE THIS! LOL


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> The rider doesn't pay Uber. You do. The only reason why you don't see it is because you granted Uber the custodial right to manage your fares through an account on your behalf. The language in the contract itself that you agreed to when signing up for Uber leaves no ambiguity here.


You are _explicitly_ unarguably wrong, and you need to learn how Pool and flat fare uberX rates are handled.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!!! Thank you for joining us this evening.........in corner #1 we have TNC drivers actually losing their minds from driving at less than $2 a mile.......corner #2 are cab drivers ( both cab drivers AND TNC drivers are taxi anyway)......who actually know it should be $2.00 or more per mile PLUS a flag drop......these 2 entities have been talking smack since 2014 and now we get to see them duke it out..........LET'S GET READY TO RUUUMMMBBBLLLE!!!!!!!!!!....................* grabbing popcorn and beers after placing my wager*..........gee. This is going to be a great matchup


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Xylphan said:


> Uber does not pay you. You do not earn a wage. You do not get a W-2. You are not registered anywhere as an employee in any legal sense of the word. You are a contractor. You have a contract that a) gives them a percentage of your fares for services rendered and b) allows them to act as manager of the account. The rider pays the fare, Uber takes their cut, then stashes the rest in your account for you. Any other incentives that Uber decides to give out goes through your contracting vehicle. At no time does it go through payroll.
> 
> The rider doesn't pay Uber. You do. The only reason why you don't see it is because you granted Uber the custodial right to manage your fares through an account on your behalf. The language in the contract itself that you agreed to when signing up for Uber leaves no ambiguity here.
> 
> ...


I've been following your post since you started last week. You seem to know much about this business, and your view points are very similar to mine. I'm very impressed with your knowledge of self employment. What business do you have and how long have you been in business? On another note, you will eventually become tired of trying to educate many people on here about what this part time drive for extra money really is. Many many many drivers think it's no big deal. They saw Uber's ad of "be your own boss, set your own hours, work when you want to" and so few really knew the risk of being self employed. I was just curious of your experience and background. Thanks again for some very good post.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I find it next to impossible to gross $60k much less profit $60k at $1.22 rates. Some of my drivers net $60k, but that's at $2.50 rates. How many miles a year do you drive to profit $60k?


Currently hve 17k business miles on the odometer this year. Likely end up between 30-35k. Started driving full time last year June, so I can only extrapolate based on what those figures were and estimate the end of this year.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> Currently hve 17k business miles on the odometer this year. Likely end up between 30-35k. Started driving full time last year June, so I can only extrapolate based on what those figures were and estimate the end of this year.


Damn, your net profit is $2 a mile. That's incredible. I've been doing this 16 years and I thought 2010 was awesome at $1.84 net profit a mile. How do you do it? I mean we have some of the biggest and most lucrative events in the country, not to mention that Scottsdale is ranked 3rd in the nation only behind New York and LA for tourism dollars spent. If you profit that much at $1.22 I should be doing $250k easily. What the hell have I been doing wrong?


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Damn, your net profit is $2 a mile. That's incredible. I've been doing this 16 years and I thought 2010 was awesome at $1.84 net profit a mile. How do you do it? I mean we have some of the biggest and most lucrative events in the country, not to mention that Scottsdale is ranked 3rd in the nation only behind New York and LA for tourism dollars spent. If you profit that much at $1.22 I should be doing $250k easily. What the hell have I been doing wrong?


Hal is correct on one point: I don't drive Uber. By choosing to drive full time on Lyft, I keep 100% of my fares and earn about 10% of my gross from tips. They don't take commission on cancellations and pay double what Uber does for referring a rider. That helps keep my margin high. He's upset that I bring Lyft into this conversation, but the reason I did was because in order to earn "$20/day" or "$2/hour", the difference in rates and incentives between my real and actual experiences with Lyft and the figures he's inventing for whatever Uber market he is trying to refer to (he is from "Earth", so who knows what city he is trying to describe) is so disparate, as to make it obvious he is talking out of his ass. Don't get me wrong, I strongly believe driving with Lyft is much better than driving with Uber, but if driving with Lyft were 10 TIMES the money one could get on Uber, there would be ZERO competition for drivers. And if Uber paid me 10 TIMES what I earned on Lyft, I don't care how warm and fuzzy Lyft might make me feel, I'd be on Uber only.

The real problem with Hal and every other per-mile focused troll, is they ignore where a significant chunk of TNC income comes from. Surge/PT, the base fare, the minute charge, incentives, etc. I typically drive long shifts on Thu, Fri, Sat (or split the Sat shift between Sat night and Sun afternoon/night). So clearly I'm hitting most of the best times to drive. Most of the time I ignore the mornings because traffic is frustrating and less profitable. If more than 1 person gets in my car I ask them if they've also signed up for Lyft, if not I give them my referral code. Lyft pays $10-20/referral. I had a bachelorette party in my van where 5 women hadn't signed up. They all took a Lyft home from the bar that night and I got an extra $100 because Lyft was paying $20/per. If it is slow and I'm waiting for a bar to close but there are people standing outside the bar, I'll approach them and give them a referral card. I give excellent service, so I get tipped often. I track local events, so I know where and when to drive to maximize my income. I average 3 paid minutes per paid mile, so in actuality the per mile rate for me is $$1.76, most rides are 5 miles or less so the $2.00 base fare is another $0.40/mile at least, bringing the per mile up to $2.16 (the shorter the ride the higher the value of the base fare when broken down per mile). I also don't dodge Line rides. Two chances for a tip and unlike Uber Pool at least Line pays you the PT on the entire ride if the first passenger is PT. Hal is correct, I do have a Plus/XL vehicle and yes it is definitely worthwhile to have access to that higher rate, I would recommend anyone doing full time TNC work have a minivan. But the ratio of 6 passenger rides I've had when on Uber or Lyft was relatively low, maybe 10%.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> Hal is correct on one point: I don't drive Uber. By choosing to drive full time on Lyft, I keep 100% of my fares and earn about 10% of my gross from tips. They don't take commission on cancellations and pay double what Uber does for referring a rider. That helps keep my margin high. He's upset that I bring Lyft into this conversation, but the reason I did was because in order to earn "$20/day" or "$2/hour", the difference in rates and incentives between my real and actual experiences with Lyft and the figures he's inventing for whatever Uber market he is trying to refer to (he is from "Earth", so who knows what city he is trying to describe) is so disparate, as to make it obvious he is talking out of his ass. Don't get me wrong, I strongly believe driving with Lyft is much better than driving with Uber, but if driving with Lyft were 10 TIMES the money one could get on Uber, there would be ZERO competition for drivers. And if Uber paid me 10 TIMES what I earned on Lyft, I don't care how warm and fuzzy Lyft might make me feel, I'd be on Uber only.
> 
> The real problem with Hal and every other per-mile focused troll, is they ignore where a significant chunk of TNC income comes from. Surge/PT, the base fare, the minute charge, incentives, etc. I typically drive long shifts on Thu, Fri, Sat (or split the Sat shift between Sat night and Sun afternoon/night). So clearly I'm hitting most of the best times to drive. Most of the time I ignore the mornings because traffic is frustrating and less profitable. If more than 1 person gets in my car I ask them if they've also signed up for Lyft, if not I give them my referral code. Lyft pays $10-20/referral. I had a bachelorette party in my van where 5 women hadn't signed up. They all took a Lyft home from the bar that night and I got an extra $100 because Lyft was paying $20/per. If it is slow and I'm waiting for a bar to close but there are people standing outside the bar, I'll approach them and give them a referral card. I give excellent service, so I get tipped often. I track local events, so I know where and when to drive to maximize my income. I average 3 paid minutes per paid mile, so in actuality the per mile rate for me is $$1.76, most rides are 5 miles or less so the $2.00 base fare is another $0.40/mile at least, bringing the per mile up to $2.16 (the shorter the ride the higher the value of the base fare when broken down per mile). I also don't dodge Line rides. Two chances for a tip and unlike Uber Pool at least Line pays you the PT on the entire ride if the first passenger is PT. Hal is correct, I do have a Plus/XL vehicle and yes it is definitely worthwhile to have access to that higher rate, I would recommend anyone doing full time TNC work have a minivan. But the ratio of 6 passenger rides I've had when on Uber or Lyft was relatively low, maybe 10%.


If you do not count the _sign-up bonuses_ (those can and will vary greatly over time and in different markets), rather just take your weekly or monthly average _Earned_ from Fares, divide by how many driving hours the app shows for that week or month, then multiply miles driven during those Lyft trips times .54 cents per mile (IRS cpm) and subtract that from your Earned fares, then add in your tips, what is your profit?

E.g. (Week):

$800 divided by 30 hours = $27* an Hour in Driver Mode
400 miles driven on Trips x .54 = $216
800 - 216 = $584 + $120 (tips) = *$704 *
*This does not include dead mile or waiting times.


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## LASAC_BER (May 19, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I would suspect that California would have a limit on the number of hours behind the wheel in a twenty-four hour period. I do not k now what it is, as I am not as familiar with California Law as I used to be.
> 
> Here:
> 
> ...


Thing is, uber can only see online time. So if you're offline waiting for a surge, sitting in your car, or driving around in your car, you're still driving - just not getting your time logged. I do this all the time. 5 hours logged in the app is realistically probably 8 hours of my uber shift.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

UberLaLa, part of the purpose of the sheet I shared is to show that a vehicle's expenses are almost NEVER $0.54/mile. As I drive a large vehicle with a relatively low mpg and high depreciation (as it is a 2015), my expenses fall within what I would consider the higher end of the spectrum. For instance my older Sedona was running around $0.22/mile before I traded it in for the 2015. Likely the only people with a higher cost/mile would be those with new/recent luxury car in markets with insanely high fuel costs, vehicle taxes, etc. I use the IRS figure in one place and one place only: when I go to file for taxes. The IRS does not know what it costs to operate my car in my city, they've ESTIMATED and AVERAGED what it costs to own ANY type of car/truck/van ANYWHERE in the U.S., on average. Because of the difference between the IRS deduction and my actual expenses, I've earned over $3600 tax free this year.

As for the sign-up bonuses, I want to be certain you understand I was discussing PASSENGER referrals and not DRIVER referrals. While I have had a couple people earn me a driver referral bonus this year, that is only maybe $1500 of my income for the year. Lyft doesn't pay less than $10/rider referral in any market I've heard of, and some markets (especially newer ones) pay $20/rider referral. $10 is what they are paying in Boston, they boosted it for a couple months at the beginning of the year but most of my referrals have been $10. I do separate my ride income from non-ride income, but I don't separate my hours. I use one app to track my hours worked and don't have a separate setting for driving, referring, etc. It is my personal opinion that referring riders is something every driver should do. 1) You make extra and easy money from it. 2) If you want your market to be busier, you should be proactive in adding more riders. Last year I had spent a couple days flyering areas in the burbs with my referral codes and did get some good response, but I haven't done that yet this year. Now that schools are coming back I'm hoping to put a day or two in and pad my earnings a bit with that. Since 99% of my rider referrals occur during a ride, I consider that ride related income. I can say that the majority of my income is from fares, obviously. But the PDB, tips, and such that only Lyft really offers consistently are the major reasons my margin is so impressive. I was keeping track when I started Uber as well, and I earned more money with Lyft so it made the decision to stop doing both and focus on Lyft easy.

As for the app's reported driving hours, this wouldn't represent my hours worked accurately. Like I said above I drive usually Thu, Fri ,Sat and count all hours spent away from home on business as work hours. From the moment I get in the car until I get home, including commute. However, I often turn the app on when I'm at home catching up on my paperwork, doing chores, watching Netflix, etc. Because I live the burbs, the rides are scarce especially throughout the middle of the day so this is not an ideal time for me to be in my car. Since I'm obviously not actively working even though the app is on, I don't count those hours as work hours. But if I get a call and jump in the car, I immediately start my timeclock. If it is a short ride and I come right back home to continue doing what I had been doing, I will clock out but leave the app on.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> UberLaLa, part of the purpose of the sheet I shared is to show that a vehicle's expenses are almost NEVER $0.54/mile. As I drive a large vehicle with a relatively low mpg and high depreciation (as it is a 2015), my expenses fall within what I would consider the higher end of the spectrum. For instance my older Sedona was running around $0.22/mile before I traded it in for the 2015. Likely the only people with a higher cost/mile would be those with new/recent luxury car in markets with insanely high fuel costs, vehicle taxes, etc. I use the IRS figure in one place and one place only: when I go to file for taxes. The IRS does not know what it costs to operate my car in my city, they've ESTIMATED and AVERAGED what it costs to own ANY type of car/truck/van ANYWHERE in the U.S., on average. Because of the difference between the IRS deduction and my actual expenses, I've earned over $3600 tax free this year.
> 
> As for the sign-up bonuses, I want to be certain you understand I was discussing PASSENGER referrals and not DRIVER referrals. While I have had a couple people earn me a driver referral bonus this year, that is only maybe $1500 of my income for the year. Lyft doesn't pay less than $10/rider referral in any market I've heard of, and some markets (especially newer ones) pay $20/rider referral. $10 is what they are paying in Boston, they boosted it for a couple months at the beginning of the year but most of my referrals have been $10. I do separate my ride income from non-ride income, but I don't separate my hours. I use one app to track my hours worked and don't have a separate setting for driving, referring, etc. It is my personal opinion that referring riders is something every driver should do. 1) You make extra and easy money from it. 2) If you want your market to be busier, you should be proactive in adding more riders. Last year I had spent a couple days flyering areas in the burbs with my referral codes and did get some good response, but I haven't done that yet this year. Now that schools are coming back I'm hoping to put a day or two in and pad my earnings a bit with that. Since 99% of my rider referrals occur during a ride, I consider that ride related income. I can say that the majority of my income is from fares, obviously. But the PDB, tips, and such that only Lyft really offers consistently are the major reasons my margin is so impressive. I was keeping track when I started Uber as well, and I earned more money with Lyft so it made the decision to stop doing both and focus on Lyft easy.
> 
> As for the app's reported driving hours, this wouldn't represent my hours worked accurately. Like I said above I drive usually Thu, Fri ,Sat and count all hours spent away from home on business as work hours. From the moment I get in the car until I get home, including commute. However, I often turn the app on when I'm at home catching up on my paperwork, doing chores, watching Netflix, etc. Because I live the burbs, the rides are scarce especially throughout the middle of the day so this is not an ideal time for me to be in my car. Since I'm obviously not actively working even though the app is on, I don't count those hours as work hours. But if I get a call and jump in the car, I immediately start my timeclock. If it is a short ride and I come right back home to continue doing what I had been doing, I will clock out but leave the app on.


All well said and done....you know how to make a good solid buck. : )

I do think we should standardize some things within the community discussions, however. _Earned, .54 cents a mile cost, time driven vs 'on the clock.' _ Putting extras in there like Rider sign ups confuses things, imho...Uber/Lyft like to confuse us with these _'opportunities.' _They good extra money makers to do, but not realistic to the true *costs of driving.
*
Have a fruitful and productive weekend!


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

UberLaLa said:


> I do think we should standardize some things within the community discussions, however. _Earned, .54 cents a mile cost, time driven vs 'on the clock.' _ Putting extras in there like Rider sign ups confuses things, imho...


That's true for rider/driver sign ups, but things like per ride bonuses, "boost" bonuses and hourly guarantees are very much a part of hourly earnings. If you don't drive, you don't get them


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Euius said:


> That's true for rider/driver sign ups, but things like per ride bonuses, "boost" bonuses and hourly guarantees are very much a part of hourly earnings. If you don't drive, you don't get them


Agree with you 100% - those 'bonuses' if you will are part and participle to the actual Drive...same as Surge.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> UberLaLa, part of the purpose of the sheet I shared is to show that a vehicle's expenses are almost NEVER $0.54/mile. As I drive a large vehicle with a relatively low mpg and high depreciation (as it is a 2015), my expenses fall within what I would consider the higher end of the spectrum. For instance my older Sedona was running around $0.22/mile before I traded it in for the 2015. Likely the only people with a higher cost/mile would be those with new/recent luxury car in markets with insanely high fuel costs, vehicle taxes, etc. I use the IRS figure in one place and one place only: when I go to file for taxes. The IRS does not know what it costs to operate my car in my city, they've ESTIMATED and AVERAGED what it costs to own ANY type of car/truck/van ANYWHERE in the U.S., on average. Because of the difference between the IRS deduction and my actual expenses, I've earned over $3600 tax free this year.
> 
> As for the sign-up bonuses, I want to be certain you understand I was discussing PASSENGER referrals and not DRIVER referrals. While I have had a couple people earn me a driver referral bonus this year, that is only maybe $1500 of my income for the year. Lyft doesn't pay less than $10/rider referral in any market I've heard of, and some markets (especially newer ones) pay $20/rider referral. $10 is what they are paying in Boston, they boosted it for a couple months at the beginning of the year but most of my referrals have been $10. I do separate my ride income from non-ride income, but I don't separate my hours. I use one app to track my hours worked and don't have a separate setting for driving, referring, etc. It is my personal opinion that referring riders is something every driver should do. 1) You make extra and easy money from it. 2) If you want your market to be busier, you should be proactive in adding more riders. Last year I had spent a couple days flyering areas in the burbs with my referral codes and did get some good response, but I haven't done that yet this year. Now that schools are coming back I'm hoping to put a day or two in and pad my earnings a bit with that. Since 99% of my rider referrals occur during a ride, I consider that ride related income. I can say that the majority of my income is from fares, obviously. But the PDB, tips, and such that only Lyft really offers consistently are the major reasons my margin is so impressive. I was keeping track when I started Uber as well, and I earned more money with Lyft so it made the decision to stop doing both and focus on Lyft easy.
> 
> As for the app's reported driving hours, this wouldn't represent my hours worked accurately. Like I said above I drive usually Thu, Fri ,Sat and count all hours spent away from home on business as work hours. From the moment I get in the car until I get home, including commute. However, I often turn the app on when I'm at home catching up on my paperwork, doing chores, watching Netflix, etc. Because I live the burbs, the rides are scarce especially throughout the middle of the day so this is not an ideal time for me to be in my car. Since I'm obviously not actively working even though the app is on, I don't count those hours as work hours. But if I get a call and jump in the car, I immediately start my timeclock. If it is a short ride and I come right back home to continue doing what I had been doing, I will clock out but leave the app on.


The only reason I driver uber is because of the lyft referals.20 dollars here in dallas.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

shiftydrake said:


> I know I am not making $21,460 I make $39-42 k each and every year depending on how summer season goes this year I'm tracking $41,000........for 2015 I profited $42,325 and paid absolutely $0 in taxes cuz of all my write-offs


Thanks for contributing.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Xylphan said:


> They average waitperson in the US makes *$21,640*. The U.S average for taxi drivers is *$25,690. *The federal minimum wage is *$15,080.* So no, waiters and taxi drivers are making more than minimum wage.
> 
> In addition, waiters and waitresses usually get benefits in addition to their wages.
> 
> Taxi drivers are often employed as independent contractors (like Uber drivers), so most of them have to cover themselves and their expenses.


Divide taxi wage or average by 60 to 70 hours per week as most taxi drivers drive at least here in California


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## 4736353377384555736 (Aug 27, 2016)

I don't envy anyone who works 60-70 hours a week no matter how much he makes.

You can't take it with you.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

I barely drive 32 hours and with accounts and such I profit between 39k on slow year and 42k on busy year


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## Milito (Apr 26, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> They average waitperson in the US makes *$21,640*. The U.S average for taxi drivers is *$25,690. *The federal minimum wage is *$15,080.* So no, waiters and taxi drivers are making more than minimum wage.
> 
> In addition, waiters and waitresses usually get benefits in addition to their wages.
> 
> Taxi drivers are often employed as independent contractors (like Uber drivers), so most of them have to cover themselves and their expenses.


I drive a cab and work 40 to 5 hours and every year a make and average of 41 k after expenses


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## Allegro Acura (Aug 29, 2016)

$10.50 per hour.......Uber last year said its drivers make about $19 an hour - but by the time taxes, insurance costs, gas and car maintenance are factored in, that figure is whittled down to about $10.50 per hour, according to a Washington Post analysis.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...dden-costs-of-being-an-uber-driver/?tid=a_inl


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

shiftydrake said:


> I barely drive 32 hours and with accounts and such I profit between 39k on slow year and 42k on busy year


You're in St. Louis. You are far from average.


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

Milito said:


> I drive a cab and work 40 to 5 hours and every year a make and average of 41 k after expenses


Good for you. But that's not average.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Far from average?......must be far from average.......as an Uber driver which I am not


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## Krash32 (Sep 5, 2016)

Xylphan said:


> They average waitperson in the US makes *$21,640*. The U.S average for taxi drivers is *$25,690. *The federal minimum wage is *$15,080.* So no, waiters and taxi drivers are making more than minimum wage.
> 
> In addition, waiters and waitresses usually get benefits in addition to their wages.
> 
> Taxi drivers are often employed as independent contractors (like Uber drivers), so most of them have to cover themselves and their expenses.


This is the IRS collected information for the DOL. Both of those jobs make significantly more money than that, just a very small percentage of waitrons or drivers will report cash tips as income. I've never made less than $15 an hour as a delivery driver or $20 an hour as a server. Busy nights like trivia or weekends or when someone calls out (all the time) $30-$40 an hour is common. At a pizzeria even, I can't imagine what a higher volume/plate place would make. I've heard of $100+/hr in some of the 5* places in Atlanta, New York etc


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## tonim109 (Sep 6, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


I beg to differ on the low skill part. It requires patience to know when to not reply, it requires motivation to know to get to work, it requires ability to use technology to navigate, Common sense to know when the app says a closed entrance. time management skills, Business management skills since you are your own company. I forgot also a sales person because Im driving in a area that 90% dont know Uber is here...I have ordered and handed out over a hundred cards to help myself and co worker Uber drivers in our city and now working on flyers while I went on vacation.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

tonim109 said:


> Business management skills since you are your own company.


Which is why so many fail at it


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

tonim109 said:


> I beg to differ on the low skill part. It requires patience to know when to not reply, it requires motivation to know to get to work, it requires ability to use technology to navigate, Common sense to know when the app says a closed entrance. time management skills, Business management skills since you are your own company. I forgot also a sales person because Im driving in a area that 90% dont know Uber is here...I have ordered and handed out over a hundred cards to help myself and co worker Uber drivers in our city and now working on flyers while I went on vacation.


I definitely agree. I think the OP just enjoys putting down drivers. It's a lot more then sitting on one's behind and driving.


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## Bolympia (Jan 8, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> Divide taxi wage or average by 60 to 70 hours per week as most taxi drivers drive at least here in California


Try 30-50 hours and 25-45k.


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## Bolympia (Jan 8, 2015)

Xylphan said:


> Good for you. But that's not average.


I don't know; major markets like New York, SF, Vegas, Miami, DC and probably a few others?


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

drexl_s said:


> Sorry guys, but it is. It is low skill job that almost anyone can do without additional training than require a drivers license. Drivers count on tips, similar to waiters, that require minimal training, who also make minimum wage; in fact, below.


"Taxi driver is a minimum wage job"... if you don't have a clue. If you know what you are doing, it can be a triple-or-quadruple-minimum wage "job", or more. Who in their right mind is going to report all their cash tips and fares? Do you really think you can rely on whatever income studies you see on the net?? Get real.

Uber/Lyft drivers, on the other hand, are 1099'd for every penny.

You can believe what you want, and if you set your mind to working for minimum wage or less then you will most likely fulfill your wishes. I wouldn't generalize like that, it all depends on who is behind the wheel and what they make of it.


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## Bolympia (Jan 8, 2015)

tonim109 said:


> I beg to differ on the low skill part. It requires patience to know when to not reply, it requires motivation to know to get to work, it requires ability to use technology to navigate, Common sense to know when the app says a closed entrance. time management skills, Business management skills since you are your own company. I forgot also a sales person because Im driving in a area that 90% dont know Uber is here...I have ordered and handed out over a hundred cards to help myself and co worker Uber drivers in our city and now working on flyers while I went on vacation.


Anyone with a drivers license and a sedan can be a ride-share driver. Any job requires motivation to get to work. Anyone 8 years old and above can navigate with a GPS (hopefully). Business management skills? Do you mean like spreadsheets? You're not your own company because Uber controls a very substantial if not a majority of your ability to make money while using the App, including your rate of pay.

Are you sure you're not selling Uber?


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

Bolympia said:


> I don't know; major markets like New York, SF, Vegas, Miami, DC and probably a few others?


Have you seen the rates in Detroit?

There are a few areas where it can be lucrative. There are a few areas where it can be lucrative if you hustle and know where to be. Then there are the rest of the areas where it really isn't worth it. And that's not even considering the risks involved.

There's a reason why Uber's marketing says "make up to $X per hour!" and in tiny tiny print says "before taxes and expenses".


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## Mitch J (Feb 20, 2016)

I made $35K last year after taxes and paid the taxi company $400 a week for less fee. Took 3 weeks off. Worked 60 hours a week though. Some do make minimum wage. Oh yea we don't have to pay maintenance fees like you do when the taxi breaks down. And we don't get paid .77 a mile before Ubers fee.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Mitch J said:


> I made $35K last year after taxes and paid the taxi company $400 a week for less fee. Took 3 weeks off. Worked 60 hours a week though. Some do make minimum wage. Oh yea we don't have to pay maintenance fees like you do when the taxi breaks down. And we don't get paid .77 a mile before Ubers fee.


You worked 49 weeks, paying $400 a week. That's $19,600. And you still pay gas.

That means you paid a 36% commission on your earnings.

Whereas I've paid 16% of my total compensation in commission, with total costs not covered by the mileage deduction of only $5k. I've also earned more, in less time.

So keep pretending you're getting paid more.


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## Mitch J (Feb 20, 2016)

Euius said:


> You worked 49 weeks, paying $400 a week. That's $19,600. And you still pay gas.
> 
> That means you paid a 36% commission on your earnings.
> 
> ...


Yea I forgot to put that $35 K was my Net. SHlT you want see my tax return?


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## Mitch J (Feb 20, 2016)

Euius said:


> You worked 49 weeks, paying $400 a week. That's $19,600. And you still pay gas.
> 
> That means you paid a 36% commission on your earnings.
> 
> ...


And that was after gas too LOL


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Mitch J said:


> Yea I forgot to put that $35 K was my Net. SHlT you want see my tax return?


Yes, I presumed it was your net. If I didnt, then your commission would have been over 50%

You're paying over half your net in gate fees. You can't be daft enough to think that's a low percentage, can you?


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## Mitch J (Feb 20, 2016)

Euius said:


> Yes, I presumed it was your net. If I didnt, then your commission would have been over 50%
> 
> You're paying over half your net in gate fees. You can't be daft enough to think that's a low percentage, can you?


The bottom line is that I made $34,843.13 sitting on my A$$ last year. I'm already at around $28K so far this year. Yea some do make minimum wage but not me pal. Have my own customers (which you dont have). So you go ahead and vent against me ya jolly 'ol troll.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Mitch J said:


> The bottom line is that I made $34,843.13 sitting on my A$$ last year. I'm already at around $28K so far this year. Yea some do make minimum wage but not me pal. Have my own customers (which you dont have). So you go ahead and vent against me ya jolly 'ol troll.


You do it in sixty hours a week. I've tied your yearly earnings already this year, and trounce your earnings this year to date.

Sitting on my ass, as you put it. Part time.

Im not the one doing the venting, lol. The reason I out earn you is because you pay so much in commission. If you want to see a true abusive relationship, don't look to how uber deals with its drivers, look at how taxi medallion owners treat their drivers.


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## Bolympia (Jan 8, 2015)

Mitch made 35k driving a car that he isn't financially responsible for. The gate fees cover _EVERY EXPENSE_ with the exception of gas. Ubers commission might be a smaller percentage than what taxi drivers pay in gate, but rideshare drivers end up being gouged for their own vehicle expenses.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Bolympia said:


> Mitch made 35k driving a car that he isn't financially responsible for. The gate fees cover _EVERY EXPENSE_ with the exception of gas. Ubers commission might be a smaller percentage than what taxi drivers pay in gate, but rideshare drivers end up being gouged for their own vehicle expenses.


My _every expense_ other than gas has totaled $5k in seven months, and I've _paid off the car entirely._ In other words: If my drove my car until it had zero resale value, I'd _still be coming out profitable._

Not everybody drives the 2001 junker that needs 10 hours of mechanics work every month. Newer cars can expect _seven years_ of care free driving, so long as the owner keeps up oil changes, tires, and brakes. That's 90k miles.

All your handwaving about omgsoexpensive! you think things are for me, they're not.


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## Bolympia (Jan 8, 2015)

Euius said:


> My _every expense_ other than gas has totaled $5k in seven months, and I've _paid off the car entirely._ In other words: If my drove my car until it had zero resale value, I'd _still be coming out profitable._
> 
> Not everybody drives the 2001 junker that needs 10 hours of mechanics work every month. Newer cars can expect _seven years_ of care free driving, so long as the owner keeps up oil changes, tires, and brakes. That's 90k miles.
> 
> All your handwaving about omgsoexpensive! you think things are for me, they're not.


I might believe you if.....

1.) You were an actual Uber driver and not someone who gets paid to spread Uber's propaganda.

2.) I hadn't used my own car for work before as a delivery driver and a courier and didn't have first hand experience dealing with the toll it takes on your vehicle. It's the fact that your car is aging 3x-5x faster than it normally would. At a minimum you're using up that so-called seven years of care free driving in a little over two years for a job that in most markets barely pays more than minimum wage and doesn't offer any benefits. As the car racks up the miles the number and frequency of vehicle repairs multiplies.


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## OlDirtySapper (Jul 26, 2016)

A taxi driver is a min wage job and he's making 2x what you do in someone else's car...


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

OlDirtySapper said:


> A taxi driver is a min wage job and he's making 2x what you do in someone else's car...


........or in my case, twice what they do in my own car. I own my cab.


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## OlDirtySapper (Jul 26, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> ........or in my case, twice what they do in my own car. I own my cab.


Yeah I love how they all want to hate on cab drivers (I did it for 10 years dispatched for 7) but looking at the money I am making here compared to then I'll be back in a yellow after new years.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

OlDirtySapper said:


> Yeah I love how they all want to hate on cab drivers


My experience on these Boards is that while there are a few TNC elitists and a few who are trying to advance an anti-taxi agenda, for whatever their reasons, the majority of the TNC drivers are allright. Most of them welcome the presence of the cab drivers on these Boards.

To be sure, there are some who have had problems with cab drivers on the street and will complain about it. If the cab drivers are doing anything improper to the TNC drivers, the TNC drivers should complain about it. I do not fault the average TNC driver too much: he merely is taking advantage of an "opportunity" (if indeed, it is truly an opportunity) that the TNC(s) offer to him.

I have to laugh when some of these elitists try to tell me that this is a forum for Uber drivers and that taxi trolls (which they make sure to call me) should go away. Even when I tell them that Uber offers taxis, here, thus I am an Uber driver, it does not seem to register. I do drive UberX, as well, but, unless there is a decent incentive, I do it only a little more than enough to stay in the game.

I dispatched for thirty years in one suburb here and the city--mostly in the city.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> ........or in my case, twice what they do in my own car. I own my cab.


Me too I own my cab


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Euius said:


> . Newer cars can expect _seven years_ of care free driving, so long as the owner keeps up oil changes, tires, and brakes. That's 90k miles.
> 
> All your handwaving about omgsoexpensive! you think things are for me, they're not.


If you are driving and making significant money in Uber or other livery function, you are putting on a lot more than 13-14000 miles a year. Figuring at most 2/3 of those miles might be payable and a buck a mile, an Uber driver driving 90000 miles in 7 years is raking in less than 10k before expenses. Not significant money.


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## TangoDriver (Sep 9, 2016)

WAKE UP UBERITES! WATCH OUT & BE VIGILANT.

UBER IS SYSTIMATICALLY MIS CACULATING UBER POOL FARES ON YOUR PAYOUTS.

After I was told of this discovery by another Uberite at SFO Staging Area. I started monitoring my new Pool Fares more closely. Days after I picked up an Uber Pool ride from SFO to Palo Alto, CA 19.74 Uber miles. Total calculated fare was only $12.44 which I knew was impossible. I ran this route many times before on UberX but always more than $28. I complained via email & as usual I got the copy paste replies to frustrate me by asking so many useless question whose details and answer were already in my original email. After 4 emails from me, & 5 emails from Uber Driver Support team they finally admitted Uber calculation mistake & corrected the Total fare to $32+. Huge difference!

The HUGE QUESTION; Did Uber preprogrammed UberPool miscalculations to cheat Unsuspecting & confused Uberites! If no one notices this deliberate computer mistakes, they'll get away with the money technically stolen from honest working drivers, the backbone of the Uber App. The $100M settlement fee Uber owes all Uberites included in the Mis-Classification Class Action Suit can come from these growing huge collection from hundreds of thousands of Active Uberites everyday. Will you be vigilant too, or will you just completely trust the system every time, every day?!?

Please spread the word to everyone in your Uberite network & localities. Also, please Post your comments & observations down below, & be sure to collect those dispute emails for proof.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Uberite?

Are you wearing tin foil?


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Bolympia said:


> I might believe you if.....
> 
> 1.) You were an actual Uber driver and not someone who gets paid to spread Uber's propaganda.-


You can pretend I'm a shill, but it doesn't actually mean I am. It just means you're more comfortable with the lie than reality.



> 2.) I hadn't used my own car for work before as a delivery driver and a courier and didn't have first hand experience dealing with the toll it takes on your vehicle.  It's the fact that your car is aging 3x-5x faster than it normally would. At a minimum you're using up that so-called seven years of care free driving in a little over two years for a job that in most markets barely pays more than minimum wage and doesn't offer any benefits. As the car racks up the miles the number and frequency of vehicle repairs multiplies.


I said 90k miles in the original, that you even quoted.

Even a full timer gets two years from that. Buy a two year old car, and "normal" usage it will only have 20 to 26k miles on it, drive it for two years and sell it

Of course it's always the full timers that cry the most. There's a reason for that: You're a full timer. Go get a job.

Not that anybody will be driving for uber for two years.



I_Like_Spam said:


> If you are driving and making significant money in Uber or other livery function, you are putting on a lot more than 13-14000 miles a year.


Agreed, which is why I didn't say otherwise. 10-13k miles is average personal use.

On the other hand, I've made more than our resident taxi cab backer in this thread last year ($36k) and I'm only at 20k miles on the car. That's inclusive of personal miles. By which I mean my odometer is only 20k miles higher than before I started Uber.

In part, I drive less than the "average" for personal use. In significant part however, it doesn't really take very many miles to earn money on Uber in an urban setting.



> Figuring at most 2/3 of those miles might be payable and a buck a mile


My dead mile percentage is under 10%. Some of us actually keep track of these things, no need to guess.

Also, _*yet again*_, the per mile charge is not the full value paid to the driver. I'm earning _over $2/mile_ some weeks including all dead miles. That includes all compensation, per mile, per minute, and bonuses, and is after commission.


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

"THE SAN FRANCISCO TAXICAB INDUSTRY: AN EQUITY ANALYSIS"

http://www.taxi-library.org/goldman2006.pdf

This is 2006 for San Francisco taxi drivers, income for taxi drivers have gone _down_ since, opposite inflation. I'll be quoting from Appendix B.

Total Earnings per (ten hour) Shift: $238.50
Price of fuel per ten hour Shift: $30.10
Gate fee: $91.50

Total: $116.9

That's $11/hour you say

"It's not minimum wage!!" you say.

Not then, with minimum wage at $8, but it is now with minimum wage at $13/hr


----------



## Mitch J (Feb 20, 2016)

Euius said:


> You do it in sixty hours a week. I've tied your yearly earnings already this year, and trounce your earnings this year to date.
> 
> Sitting on my ass, as you put it. Part time.
> 
> Im not the one doing the venting, lol. The reason I out earn you is because you pay so much in commission. If you want to see a true abusive relationship, don't look to how uber deals with its drivers, look at how taxi medallion owners treat their drivers.


BLAH BLAH BLAH who gives a SHlT


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Euius said:


> You can pretend I'm a shill, but it doesn't actually mean I am. It just means you're more comfortable with the lie than reality.
> 
> On the other hand, I've made more than our resident taxi cab backer in this thread last year ($36k) and I'm only at 20k miles on the car. That's inclusive of personal miles. By which I mean my odometer is only 20k miles higher than before I started Uber.
> 
> ...


This is definitely good for you. How do you filter out the requests to limit the dead miles to such a small number? Do you call all of the people, or do you limit the calls you'll accept to 3 minutes away?

But the vast majority of guys and gals ubering aren't really in a position to figure out the complex matrix of Uber Compensation to earn a decent amount. A lot of those folks should probably just quit, seriously. And most probably will.


----------



## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> This is definitely good for you. How do you filter out the requests to limit the dead miles to such a small number? Do you call all of the people, or do you limit the calls you'll accept to 3 minutes away?
> 
> But the vast majority of guys and gals ubering aren't really in a position to figure out the complex matrix of Uber Compensation to earn a decent amount. A lot of those folks should probably just quit, seriously. And most probably will.


They do, hence the ridiculously high turnover rate. It's just that Uber can usually get a few months of 30% before they figure it out.


----------



## NFIH (Jul 26, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> This is definitely good for you. How do you filter out the requests to limit the dead miles to such a small number? Do you call all of the people, or do you limit the calls you'll accept to 3 minutes away?
> 
> But the vast majority of guys and gals ubering aren't really in a position to figure out the complex matrix of Uber Compensation to earn a decent amount. A lot of those folks should probably just quit, seriously. And most probably will.


Yeah, that 10% dead miles figure sounds really odd to me. Especially given the total amount he says he drives and earns, even if that's just part time. But it *could* be down to the vagaries of the geography in his area which are particularly favorable. But they'd have to be almost miraculously favorable. Well, there's no way to know for sure. But I think it's also fair to say his situation wouldn't be representative even of other "good" performers. It's outlier status at best.

(It also occurs to me that we may all be using slightly different definitions of "dead miles" and that could explain it.)


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

NFIH said:


> Yeah, that 10% dead miles figure sounds really odd to me. Especially given the total amount he says he drives and earns, even if that's just part time.
> (It also occurs to me that we may all be using slightly different definitions of "dead miles" and that could explain it.)


When I was driving a cab, the meter kept track of the total number of miles driven during a shift and how many paid miles.

It was usually about 50/50 paid and unpaid, the very best I did was 90%, but that was one time only and rather peculiar day all around.


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> This is definitely good for you. How do you filter out the requests to limit the dead miles to such a small number? Do you call all of the people, or do you limit the calls you'll accept to 3 minutes away?


I don't _receive _pings from far away. 5 minutes in SF is still less than a mile away.

I don't call people, I simply refuse long distance rides outside the city and cancel them out.



> A lot of those folks should probably just quit, seriously. And most probably will.


So? I will quit soon enough. This is not a career. Having drivers quit is not a bad thing for anyone.


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

NFIH said:


> (It also occurs to me that we may all be using slightly different definitions of "dead miles" and that could explain it.)


All tax deductible miles without a passenger


----------



## Bolympia (Jan 8, 2015)

Euius said:


> You can pretend I'm a shill, but it doesn't actually mean I am. It just means you're more comfortable with the lie than reality.


No real Uber driver would never fight for Uber this hard, nor would they ever actually conduct research to support their point. You get paid by Uber to post this crap, which is why you put so much effort into it.


----------



## Bolympia (Jan 8, 2015)

Euius said:


> "THE SAN FRANCISCO TAXICAB INDUSTRY: AN EQUITY ANALYSIS"
> 
> http://www.taxi-library.org/goldman2006.pdf
> 
> ...


That report is from 1o years ago.

What has changed in 10 years?

1.) The drop on the meter is now $3.50 as opposed to $2.25. 
2.) The meter rate is $2.75 per mile as opposed to $2.25 per mile.
3.)The entire San Francisco taxi fleet has been hybrid cars since 2012, thus we spend $15 per shift on gas instead of $30.

Let me quote from Appendix B:

"This is an estimate: actual taxicab driver income will vary depending on how many hours worked,
which shifts (evenings and weekends tend to be more lucrative), and the fluctuating price of gas-
among other factors."

It's an inaccurate estimate. In 2006 typical night shift earnings were about $175.00 per shift.


----------



## Bolympia (Jan 8, 2015)

Euius said:


> I said 90k miles in the original, that you even quoted.
> 
> Even a full timer gets two years from that. Buy a two year old car, and "normal" usage it will only have 20 to 26k miles on it, drive it for two years and sell it


No one who drives for Uber actually makes enough money to just buy a car, they would have to _finance a car _with a 3-4 year payment plan_. _If you put 90k on that car in two years, you would be underwater on the loan, owing more money on the car than what it was worth and you wouldn't be able to simply sell it.


----------



## Bolympia (Jan 8, 2015)

Euius said:


> Of course it's always the full timers that cry the most. There's a reason for that: You're a full timer. Go get a job.
> 
> Not that anybody will be driving for uber for two years.


I'm not crying. I'm just pointing out your trolling and misinformation campaign.


----------



## Bolympia (Jan 8, 2015)

Euius said:


> On the other hand, I've made more than our resident taxi cab backer in this thread last year ($36k) and I'm only at 20k miles on the car. That's inclusive of personal miles. By which I mean my odometer is only 20k miles higher than before I started Uber.
> 
> In part, I drive less than the "average" for personal use. In significant part however, it doesn't really take very many miles to earn money on Uber in an urban setting.
> 
> ...


Bullshit, because your not a real Uber driver. I already said I've been there before and your numbers don't add up. I also already said the average taxi driver makes 25k-40k per year depending on the number of hours and the market worked. But they earned it with a car someone else's car.


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Euius said:


> You can pretend I'm a shill, but it doesn't actually mean I am. It just means you're more comfortable with the lie than reality.
> 
> I said 90k miles in the original, that you even quoted.
> 
> ...


l


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Bolympia said:


> No one who drives for Uber actually makes enough money to just buy a car, they would have to _finance a car _with a 3-4 year payment plan_. _


This real driver paid off his pre existing financing with Uber money, so you're wrong. Again.

In fact, you're so wrong, you're just not worth it.


----------



## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Euius said:


> This real driver paid off his pre existing financing with Uber money, so you're wrong. Again.
> 
> In fact, you're so wrong, you're just not worth it.


Oh my god is this guy even for real?.....
I mean come on how many taxi drivers have actually proven what he claims is true is very wrong?.......apparently he IS a troll or some Uber shill sitting at a keyboard..and had never been behind the wheel of any car as a fare for hire driver...I mean I can proove he is wrong and so can all the other taxi drivers that have responded....but why should we?


----------



## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

shiftydrake said:


> Oh my god is this guy even for real?.....
> I mean come on how many taxi drivers have actually proven what he claims is true is very wrong?.......apparently he IS a troll or some Uber shill sitting at a keyboard..and had never been behind the wheel of any car as a fare for hire driver...I mean I can proove he is wrong and so can all the other taxi drivers that have responded....but why should we?


True. I paid cash in Jan 2014 for a brand new 2014 Dodge Caravan that I use as my current taxi. Paid $120K cash for my mobile home in Jan 2016. Have added over $30k to my SEP IRA in the past 3 years and still have over $47k cash in the bank. Zero debt. All from taxi earnings. With a pretty high overhead including $300/mo allowance to my daughter and maintaining 4 cars in the family. Quite a mean feat with my "minimum wage job". LOL

Let him believe what he wants to believe. What do I care.


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

shiftydrake said:


> Oh my god is this guy even for real?.....
> I mean come on how many taxi drivers have actually proven what he claims is true is very wrong?.......apparently he IS a troll or some Uber shill sitting at a keyboard..and had never been behind the wheel of any car as a fare for hire driver...I mean I can proove he is wrong and so can all the other taxi drivers that have responded....but why should we?


You couldn't and can't prove me wrong, because I'm not.

All you can do is pretend I'm wrong. That's fantasy, not fact. Built on the cardboard foundation of grossly exaggerated costs, and refusing to recognize that per mile is not all the compensation


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Euius said:


> You couldn't and can't prove me wrong, because I'm not.
> 
> All you can do is pretend I'm wrong. That's fantasy, not fact. Built on the cardboard foundation of grossly exaggerated costs, and refusing to recognize that per mile is not all the compensation


I am glad you are pleased with what you are earning with Uber.

But I don't understand your tone of anger I am picking up. If people are being discouraged from partnering with uber, it leaves more trips for you if you're sticking around, making it a bit easier to meet your own goals.


----------



## the rebel (Jun 12, 2016)

Euius said:


> You couldn't and can't prove me wrong, because I'm not.
> 
> All you can do is pretend I'm wrong. That's fantasy, not fact. Built on the cardboard foundation of grossly exaggerated costs, and refusing to recognize that per mile is not all the compensation


If you are making all that money why do you continue to ignore the requests for you to prove it? It is easy to take a screen shot of your earnings statement.


----------



## the rebel (Jun 12, 2016)

Driving for a cab company I usually netted out around $800 a week for a 65 hour week, that was after paying for the cab company rent, insurance, and fees as well as for the gas. Not much better than minimum wage but it was better. It was also better hourly than my best weeks for Uber or Lyft full time, where I have yet to make more than $700 a week after paying for gas and the cost of using my own car.


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Even if he were making 30/hr, 50k don't go far in Frisco. Hope his other job earns him something to help out.


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

the rebel said:


> If you are making all that money why do you continue to ignore the requests for you to prove it? It is easy to take a screen shot of your earnings statement.


Because such a screenshot would take seconds to identify yourself to uber with a database search.

The bonuses are public. I've posted them. Not my problem you can't do math


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Blahgard said:


> Even if he were making 30/hr, 50k don't go far in Frisco. Hope his other job earns him something to help out.


Taxi drivers are "managing" and they make less. In sixty hours.

Don't worry about my finances, I've got plenty for the mortgage. This is all about saving a little extra now instead of using the credit card later for the baby. I've not only got that savings, but now I won't be paying the monthly finance on the car.


----------



## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

Yesterday I was having a chat with a Taxi driver, and I asked him "You guys must make a killing since you can pick up from the street and all compared to us Uber Lyft drivers", and he said the taxi driver that doesn't sleep at most makes 45K a year.


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Euius said:


> Taxi drivers are "managing" and they make less. In sixty hours.
> 
> Don't worry about my finances, I've got plenty for the mortgage. This is all about saving a little extra now instead of using the credit card later for the baby. I've not only got that savings, but now I won't be paying the monthly finance on the car.


Only because you're an uber employee.


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

the rebel said:


> Driving for a cab company I usually netted out around $800 a week for a 65 hour week, that was after paying for the cab company rent, insurance, and fees as well as for the gas. Not much better than minimum wage but it was better. It was also better hourly than my best weeks for Uber or Lyft full time, where I have yet to make more than $700 a week after paying for gas and the cost of using my own car.


At least you weren't trashing your own car.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Euius said:


> Taxi drivers are "managing" and they make less. In sixty hours.


..............perhaps in SF, but it is not that bad, here.......................................



Ozzyoz said:


> Yesterday I was having a chat with a Taxi driver, and I asked him "You guys must make a killing since you can pick up from the street and all compared to us Uber Lyft drivers", and he said the taxi driver that doesn't sleep at most makes 45K a year.


...........perhaps in the Twin Cities, but it is not that bad, here.............................


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Blahgard said:


> Only because you're an uber employee.


I hope your fantasies are very self fulfilling, but they're not anywhere near accurate to reality.


----------



## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Or here I work 30-32 hours and profit $40-45 k a year


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> But I don't understand your tone of anger I am picking up. If people are being discouraged from partnering with uber, it leaves more trips for you if you're sticking around, making it a bit easier to meet your own goals.


That's completely inaccurate.

I work in one market, when all the other markets improve in get riders more likely to use Uber, and then when they travel to SF they will start requesting rides as soon as they get here, and not until their hotel doorman tells them to call an Uber instead of a taxi.

I'm also only part time in my own market, all the other drivers here keep the level of service up, so that when I do work the riders are there. Without the other drivers, nobody would be requesting rides.

Then also, of course, its just simply Duty Calls.

https://xkcd.com/386/


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Euius said:


> I work in one market, when all the other markets improve in get riders more likely to use Uber, and then when they travel to SF they will start requesting rides as soon as they get here, and not until their hotel doorman tells them to call an Uber instead of a taxi.
> 
> I'm also only part time in my own market, all the other drivers here keep the level of service up, so that when I do work the riders are there. Without the other drivers, nobody would be requesting rides.
> 
> Then also, of course, its just simply Duty Calls.


Huh? huh? and HUH?


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Huh? huh? and HUH?


Do you have difficulty understanding basic English communication? I don't provide translation services.


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Euius said:


> I hope your fantasies are very self fulfilling, but they're not anywhere near accurate to reality.


What else is there to say, but that it's you who are in fantasy land, not me. I'm merely asking for proof, and you won't give it so forgive me if I'm not willing to credit someone of your character much of anything.

Also, no doorman is going to screw himself by telling a guest to call uber.


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> ..............perhaps in SF, but it is not that bad, here.......................................
> 
> ...........perhaps in the Twin Cities, but it is not that bad, here.............................


The City Council is too busy kissing Uber butt to make sure that uber has legitimate insurance coverage and follows livery best practices.


----------



## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

Euius said:


> Do you have difficulty understanding basic English communication? I don't provide translation services.


Even I had a hard time understanding you man. Seriously.

Just reading the below gave me a headache.

_I'm also only part time in my own market, all the other drivers here keep the level of service up, so that when I do work the riders are there. Without the other drivers, nobody would be requesting rides._


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Blahgard said:


> The City Council is too busy kissing Uber butt to make sure that uber has legitimate insurance coverage and follows livery best practices.


Perhaps you should come out to Boston and train the cab and limo drivers here. In the last two days I've seen five different for-hire Vehicles stop at a red light only to pull straight through it with oncoming traffic I've seen a taxi with a bumper hanging off dragging behind it and numerous illegal u-turns as well as questionable pick-up and drop-off locations


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Blahgard said:


> What else is there to say, but that it's you who are in fantasy land, not me. I'm merely asking for proof, and you won't give it so forgive me if I'm not willing to credit someone of your character much of anything.


I gave you proof. What you're demanding is sufficient information to identify my uber account, and I will not post it.



> Also, no doorman is going to screw himself by telling a guest to call uber.


Hahaha. Every single one in SF does


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Ozzyoz said:


> Even I had a hard time understanding you man. Seriously.
> 
> Just reading the below gave me a headache.
> 
> _I'm also only part time in my own market, all the other drivers here keep the level of service up, so that when I do work the riders are there. Without the other drivers, nobody would be requesting rides._


You should get that looked at. You must have a medical condition.


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Euius said:


> I gave you proof. What you're demanding is sufficient information to identify my uber account, and I will not post it.
> 
> Hahaha. Every single one in SF does


You didn't give me jack, jack.


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Blahgard said:


> You didn't give me jack, jack.


I gave you the publicly available information detailing the bonuses you say I don't receive. That you can't admit I receive them isn't of any importance.


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Zzzzzzzzzz we don't know how many rides you give a week, etch... And that bonus isn't all that impressive either. 180 rides in a week for $500? Not impressed.


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Blahgard said:


> Zzzzzzzzzz we don't know how many rides you give a week, etch... And that bonus isn't all that impressive either. 180 rides in a week for $500? Not impressed.


It's 120 rides for $500.

That's more than $4 per ride. Each pool pickup counts seperately

Call it a tip, and you would cream your jeans for $4

$1000 in fares for 120 rides in 40 hours, plus $500 for power driver, plus $300 to $400 For hourly guarantees

Of course, I get less as I only do 100 rides in 30 hours


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Euius said:


> Do you have difficulty understanding basic English communication?


I understand "basic English communication" [_*sic*_] but it is painfully obvious that you have difficulty composing or "communicating" it.

\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ It appears that _*I ain't the only one to observe that*_. Seriously, you would make a good Uber CSR; for more than one reason.


Ozzyoz said:


> Even I had a hard time understanding you man. Seriously.
> 
> Just reading the below gave me a headache.
> 
> _I'm also only part time in my own market, all the other drivers here keep the level of service up, so that when I do work the riders are there. Without the other drivers, nobody would be requesting rides._


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I understand "basic English communication" [_*sic*_] but it is painfully obvious that you have difficulty composing or "communicating" it.
> 
> \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ It appears that _*I ain't the only one to observe that*_. Seriously, you would make a good Uber CSR; for more than one reason.


Your cromulent observation is given all the concern it deserves


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Euius said:


> It's 120 rides for $500.
> 
> That's more than $4 per ride. Each pool pickup counts seperately
> 
> ...


If you do 120 rides in a week. If they pay you and don't decide to discontinue the spif for whatever reason, all of which remains rather nebulous in the unethical uber world and you refuse to substantiate by any documentation so.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Euius said:


> Your cromulent observation is given all the concern it deserves


Cromulent- a 21st century word coined by David X. Cohen.
It ain't in Noah Webster.
I'd say your critics are correct, you suffer from a lack of classical English education.


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Cromulent- a 21st century word coined by David X. Cohen.
> It ain't in Noah Webster.
> I'd say your critics are correct, you suffer from a lack of classical English education.


It just proves he watches the Simpsons, but it doesn't change the fact that he's still a ****** who doesn't object to Uber's BS business practices.


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

BostonBarry said:


> Perhaps you should come out to Boston and train the cab and limo drivers here. In the last two days I've seen five different for-hire Vehicles stop at a red light only to pull straight through it with oncoming traffic I've seen a taxi with a bumper hanging off dragging behind it and numerous illegal u-turns as well as questionable pick-up and drop-off locations


So?


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Blahgard said:


> So?


Sorry, it didn't highlight your relevant quote.
"Livery best practices" made me laugh.


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Blahgard said:


> If you do 120 rides in a week. If they pay you and don't decide to discontinue the spif for whatever reason, all of which remains rather nebulous in the unethical uber world and you refuse to substantiate by any documentation so.


Lol, plenty of drivers do 120 rides, and they've been offering this bonus since March. Paid every week.

Again, _thousands of drivers_ receive this bonus. Not just me. It's time to accept that you're simply wrong, although I know that will totally destroy your world. Seek medical assistance if necessary, it's not worth harming yourself over.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Euius said:


> Your cromulent observation is given all the concern it deserves


\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ Take your own advice. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Euius said:


> It's time to accept that you're simply wrong, although I know that will totally destroy your world. Seek medical assistance if necessary, it's not worth harming yourself over.


----------



## Bolympia (Jan 8, 2015)

Look, for the 3rd time, taxi drivers in SF make 25k-40k per year, net, on a 30-50 hour work week, driving a car that they are not responsible for.

It was more before Uber of course.

Do Uber/Lyft drivers in SF make more? Probably. But that is only with the bonuses, and it doesn't factor in car depreciation or wear and tear. If you factor in expenses, earnings even out.


----------



## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Euius said:


> Lol, plenty of drivers do 120 rides, and they've been offering this bonus since March. Paid every week.
> 
> Again, _thousands of drivers_ receive this bonus. Not just me. It's time to accept that you're simply wrong, although I know that will totally destroy your world. Seek medical assistance if necessary, it's not worth harming yourself over.


And they don't have enough money to replace the transmission or buy a new car.


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Blahgard said:


> And they don't have enough money to replace the transmission or buy a new car.


I can't speak for others, but I do and I'm only doing this part time.

If drivers blow it all on hookers and blow, that's their bad decision. It doesn't mean they earned less

Of course one of the SF posters did blow her engine and did pay to get it fixed, so I can only assume she could afford to do so

$500 every week since March. $12k just in the bonus, with fares and other bonuses still coming


----------



## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Ya know it's bad when they pay bonuses just to get people to drive....who cares that you "drive part time" helll I drive part time...I have 1 job (not 2)....I still net $42k at 30 hours or less......who cares?...only person that cares is my bank account....and please don't ask me for screenshots...or proof....because I will say no and laugh at your feeble attempt at being "a big man" "I drive part time" I don't care


----------



## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

Anyone else notice Drake's pay goes up every time he posts and the hours he works goes down? :-D. He's getting better at this cab thing everyday!


----------



## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Believe what you want to I don't believe you.....who cares if you believe me.....your in Boston I'm in StL so you actually have no idea....I run a lot of prepaid account trips....I don't sit on cab stands....I don't pick up at airport...company I drive for has contract with state of Missouri for transportation of students.....also many other well paying account trips with most of hospitals...Monsanto....Anheuser Busch..Cardinal organization..very large Technology company....just to name a few....so anywhere believe what you want I don't care


----------



## Euius (May 19, 2016)

shiftydrake said:


> Ya know it's bad when they pay bonuses just to get people to drive


In what way is that "bad"?

Total compensation is all that matters. In fact, compensation from sources _other_ than fares is a good thing, as increasing fares will reduce the number of riders while simultaneously increasing drivers. In other words, hurting the amount of business any one specific driver does.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

shiftydrake said:


> Believe what you want to I don't believe you.....who cares if you believe me.....your in Boston I'm in StL so you actually have no idea....I run a lot of prepaid account trips....I don't sit on cab stands....I don't pick up at airport...company I drive for has contract with state of Missouri for transportation of students.....also many other well paying account trips with most of hospitals...Monsanto....Anheuser Busch..Cardinal organization..very large Technology company....just to name a few....so anywhere believe what you want I don't care


You know why they don't like us?
Cause we generally make bank.

As much as cab hatred runs deep here it's mostly due to jealousy.
I just got a cash/credit card computer dispatch (ping).
Tablet estimates the gross on the job @$25.00, 7.4 miles.
We all know how far TNCs have to travel to gross $25.00.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Euius said:


> In what way is that "bad"?
> 
> Total compensation is all that matters. In fact, compensation from sources _other_ than fares is a good thing, as increasing fares will reduce the number of riders while simultaneously increasing drivers. In other words, hurting the amount of business any one specific driver does.


Total compensation is all that matters?
Tell that to Adam Smith or Milton Friedman.
Both dead, but both had a grip on P&L.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You know why they don't like us?
> Cause we generally make bank.
> 
> As much as cab hatred runs deep here it's mostly due to jealousy.
> ...


I agree man I said in a previous post that for me to pick up 4 people and take them 10 miles I get paid about $30.....TNC picks up same 4 takes them 10 miles they get $8-$9 maybe $10......yeah I'll stay where I am.....


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Euius said:


> In other words, hurting the amount of business any one specific driver does.


HUH?



TwoFiddyMile said:


> Total compensation is all that matters?
> Tell that to Adam Smith or Milton Friedman.
> Both dead, but both had a grip on P&L.


I am glad that you could make sense out of what he posted. The sentence that I quoted makes absolutely no sense, especially when you try to connect it to the rest of his post. Does he mean dollar amount of business or volume?.......or do you know?...........or do you care?


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

I honestly couldn't care what cab drivers earn until they start trying to bad mouth me or my business. I have family who drove cabs, I earn more than they ever did and get to work in a nicer car. I also wasn't saying anything other than DRAKE seems to be either lying about his numbers or doesn't keep actual records because here on this board every time he makes a new comment his annual income goes up and the weekly hours go down...so, why should I believe him when he can't keep his story straight? I've had plenty of decent conversations with cabbies on this board. If it makes you happy then who gives a damn what some random dude says online. But when I see a lie, exaggeration, or over-simplification I'm going to point it out.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

And my handle is not DRAKE......it is drake or shiftydrake so don't capitalize my entire half name and how did I lie my first report to you said $40k-$42k......at 30-32 hours......above I said $42k at 30hrs so so how did I just lie? Roughly same amount.......but like I said I'm not a driver in Boston.....I'm in St Louis totally different market..then "your family"...so unless you know any cab drivers in St Louis that drives for same company.....then you calling me a lier makes me laugh..........jealousy just like TwoFiddyMile said......so go ahead and beat your chest....hope it makes you feel like a man.....I couldn't care less what you make


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> HUH?


That's twice you've shown an inability with comprehending clear text.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

Euius said:


> That's twice you've shown an inability with comprehending clear text.


Oh lawd here we go again! Increasing fares won't cause passengers to decrease. 95% of passengers don't use this on a daily service and they will use it once in a while. They may use it when their cars are being repaired or they request from Airport, but I have not heard of a single passenger that relies on this on a daily basis. With that being said, increasing fares won't affect business for drivers as it is the passengers that need the ride. If a passenger really needs a ride they will pay (even if it is a higher amount).


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Hehe.
Don't know, don't care.
The man is clueless about economics.
When I make clarification out of his posts I'm actually doing it to edify everyone else.
Hes a hopeless case 



Another Uber Driver said:


> HUH?
> 
> I am glad that you could make sense out of what he posted. The sentence that I quoted makes absolutely no sense, especially when you try to connect it to the rest of his post. Does he mean dollar amount of business or volume?.......or do you know?...........or do you care?


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Ozzyoz said:


> Oh lawd here we go again! Increasing fares won't cause passengers to decrease.


Of course it will, no matter how much you _assert_ otherwise. That's how markets work.

Otherwise, we could just raise the fares to $50 per second, $500 per foot! That won't affect the market at all!



> 95% of passengers don't use this on a daily service and they will use it once in a while.


That may be true for your market, or it may not be. It is absolutely not true for mine. It's still irrelevant. As prices rise, fewer will use the service.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Euius said:


> That's twice you've shown an inability with comprehending clear text.


"Clear" is the _*LAST*_ adjective that I would use to describe either "text" of yours to which I replied "HUH?". I am not the only one who has made such a statement about your "text". In fact, the "text" of yours quoted above is best described as "stilted".



TwoFiddyMile said:


> The man is clueless about economics.


........and the use of the English Language............................


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> "Clear" is the _*LAST*_ adjective that I would use to describe either "text" of yours to which I replied "HUH?". I am not the only one who has made such a statement about your "text". In fact, the "text" of yours quoted above is best described as "stilted".
> 
> ........and the use of the English Language............................


I like a moderator that will actually engage in a disagreement and banter and reply. I've been in other forums where the mods would be all to quick to wield the BAN hammer when they didn't have the wits or intelligence to competently express their position.
Just saying. Back to your scheduled argument.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Gung-Ho said:


> I like a moderator that will actually engage in a disagreement and banter and reply. I've been in other forums where the mods would be all to quick to wield the BAN hammer when they didn't have the wits or intelligence to competently express their position.
> Just saying. Back to your scheduled argument.


Do I know you from TalkBass?
Lol.


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Do I know you from TalkBass?
> Lol.


No. Never heard of that one. It was a poker forum in a land far far away.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Gung-Ho said:


> No. Never heard of that one. It was a poker forum in a land far far away.


Cool mate.
Yeah I had that exact experience with a forum where me and all my mates were banned for having a pulse.
UPnet has good responsible mods.
It's a rare island in a sea of forum madness.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Yeah the thing I like about this board is one mod is actually a cabbie and stands behind us cabbies thanks Another Uber Driver


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Yup.
God bless AUD.
Stand-up guy.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Does 42k = bank?

I guess it's does if you stay somewhere cheap.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

ColdRider said:


> Does 42k = bank?
> 
> I guess it's does if you stay somewhere cheap.


That's middle class in the South.
Cost of living is far cheaper here.


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## Traveler54 (Sep 6, 2016)

The Mollusk said:


> This is true. The only difference is that you can drive as many hours as you want in a taxi. McDs will give you 30 hours a week. A taxi can work 90 hours a week easy.


Not with the Taxicab Authority in Clark County NV. 12 hour shifts max 6 days per week. It is a job where you clock in and clock out. Sometimes you wait for a car to be available. If you do not book the set average or above you will get a talking to if this continues you get fired. I did well, booked well. But it was a *****.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

Traveler54 said:


> Not with the Taxicab Authority in Clark County NV. 12 hour shifts max 6 days per week. It is a job where you clock in and clock out. Sometimes you wait for a car to be available. If you do not book the set average or above you will get a talking to if this continues you get fired. I did well, booked well. But it was a *****.


The regulation is much too lenient. 72 hours a week is ridiculous and unsafe.

At most, they should be under the same restrictions as truck drivers. Consecutive 11 hours max without a hour plus break. Consecutive 8 hours max without a 30 minute break. 14 hours max total, with 10 hours consecutive off before the clock resets. Sixty hours max total, with 34 consecutive hours off to reset the clock.

If not more stringent.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

ColdRider said:


> Does 42k = bank?
> 
> I guess it's does if you stay somewhere cheap.


StL....that's middle class as well


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Euius said:


> The regulation is much too lenient. 72 hours a week is ridiculous and unsafe.
> 
> At most, they should be under the same restrictions as truck drivers. Consecutive 11 hours max without a hour plus break. Consecutive 8 hours max without a 30 minute break. 14 hours max total, with 10 hours consecutive off before the clock resets. Sixty hours max total, with 34 consecutive hours off to reset the clock.
> 
> If not more stringent.


Thanks, Mr Nanny State.
I bet you'd sing a different tune if we got county authorities to regulate Uber the same way.
Man, you are all over the map!
Free market when you wanna be. Nanny State when it suits you.
Inconsistent and incongruous.

Fabulous!


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Yeah, once he actually realizes he IS a cab (unlicensed unregulated cab) then he might just maybe stop the anti taxi rhetoric......but I guess that just like tossing a coin into a wishing well, or a promiscuous teen girl hoping and praying the preg test comes back negative.......


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## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Ozzyoz said:


> Oh lawd here we go again! Increasing fares won't cause passengers to decrease. 95% of passengers don't use this on a daily service and they will use it once in a while. They may use it when their cars are being repaired or they request from Airport, but I have not heard of a single passenger that relies on this on a daily basis. With that being said, increasing fares won't affect business for drivers as it is the passengers that need the ride. If a passenger really needs a ride they will pay (even if it is a higher amount).


I've talked to a few and they get irritated when they have to pay more than bargain basement prices even though they travel during rush hour. Lol


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Thanks, Mr Nanny State.
> I bet you'd sing a different tune if we got county authorities to regulate Uber the same way.


Nope. AFAIK the NYC regulations apply to Uber as well. It is much too lenient.

I have never exceeded any of the restrictions I listed. The CPUC should adopt the same limits, and since they're taking over taxi regulation apply it to them as well.

Watch the _monthly/yearly _taxi income drop like a rock when they can't work so many hours.



shiftydrake said:


> Yeah, once he actually realizes he IS a cab (unlicensed unregulated cab) then he might just maybe stop the anti taxi rhetoric


When are you going to realize I'm already planning when I stop this part time, side gig, activity at the end of the year. You're still hoping that computers will take so long you can retire first.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Euius said:


> Nope. AFAIK the NYC regulations apply to Uber as well. It is much too lenient.
> 
> I have never exceeded any of the restrictions I listed. The CPUC should adopt the same limits, and since they're taking over taxi regulation apply it to them as well.
> 
> ...


...And. Another fiddy cents earned.


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## Peanut hello (Sep 19, 2016)

Euius said:


> The regulation is much too lenient. 72 hours a week is ridiculous and unsafe.
> 
> At most, they should be under the same restrictions as truck drivers. Consecutive 11 hours max without a hour plus break. Consecutive 8 hours max without a 30 minute break. 14 hours max total, with 10 hours consecutive off before the clock resets. Sixty hours max total, with 34 consecutive hours off to reset the clock.
> 
> If not more stringent.


Most of cab drivers I used to see just sitting in taxi stand .some of them sit for hours..so you drive maybe 20 minutes, and wait for the next run for 1 to 2 hours...


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

No idea just in your city maybe


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

shiftydrake said:


> No idea just in your city maybe


Right.
Already up $43 for the day, only 1 job.
It's Tuesday, meh.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Yep same here 3 jobs ran today. After expenses $115 then went home


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I would suspect that California would have a limit on the number of hours behind the wheel in a twenty-four hour period. I do not k now what it is, as I am not as familiar with California Law as I used to be.
> 
> Here:
> 
> ...


There no way to enforce hours behind the wheel for tnc drivers.Lyft logs you out after 14hrs,but nothing stopping someone at that point for driving with uber.Got to love the unregulated gig economy.


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## Peanut hello (Sep 19, 2016)

Yes there is a limit you cant work around the clock.I believe 12 hours is the maximum. if an accident happens and you been on the road for so many hours ,they hold you accountable for it.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

Peanut hello said:


> Yes there is a limit you cant work around the clock.I believe 12 hours is the maximum. if an accident happens and you been on the road for so many hours ,they hold you accountable for it.


But how would they know if you do uber and lyft?


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## Peanut hello (Sep 19, 2016)

KMANDERSON said:


> But how would they know if you do uber and lyft?


If they want to know something they will get it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...an-worked-16-hours-straight-article-1.2427406


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

the company you contract with wouldn't know but you can bet if you drive too long and hurt someone their lawyer will subpoena your in/out times from all the companies you contract with.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> the company you contract with wouldn't know but you can bet if you drive too long and hurt someone their lawyer will subpoena your in/out times from all the companies you contract with.


At least lyft has a limit.Uber does not care.You can drive for as long as you want with uber.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

ColdRider said:


> Does 42k = bank?
> 
> I guess it's does if you stay somewhere cheap.


And yes coldrider that is net profit


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Every state has a different limit on taxi driver hours.
Here it's 17 logged on hours out of 24, with a mandatory hour for lunch- which translates. 16 out of 24.
The CMT/Mobile Knowledge device would give up that info pretty quick. But then my GPS position would put me on my couch at least 6 of those hours with alibis from my entire family.
Only a real goober is on the road more than 12 hours.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

I have a limit as well and icabbi will tell on us like a snitch and we get called in if we bypass limit.....I don't so I don't know for sure I think it's 14.?


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> the company you contract with wouldn't know but you can bet if you drive too long and hurt someone their lawyer will subpoena your in/out times from all the companies you contract with.


But if you hurt someone our yourself in a crash it to late at that point.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

not for you to get sued and charged with things like criminal negligence or manslaughter. just not worth it. I love driving long hours (personal or business) but 14 hours is right at my tipping point for safety.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

BostonBarry said:


> not for you to get sued and charged with things like criminal negligence or manslaughter. just not worth it. I love driving long hours (personal or business) but 14 hours is right at my tipping point for safety.


We are saying the same thing.It not worth the few extra dollars you will make.


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## BostonBarry (Aug 31, 2015)

yup!


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