# Looks like drivers moaning and groaning had Uber increase the rates



## 232439 (7 mo ago)

More rides now pay more.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

Still getting the same here. 😔


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## Be Right There (9 mo ago)

I've never ridden in a Toyota Cocaine. What's the gas mileage on it?


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

Be Right There said:


> I've never ridden in a Toyota Cocaine. What's the gas mileage on it?


$29,000 a kilo -meter according to Google. 😁


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## ChicagoHeat12 (May 6, 2015)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> $29,000 a kilo -meter according to Google. 😁


Was about $19k in the mid to late 90's.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

ChicagoHeat12 said:


> Was about $19k in the mid to late 90's.


Biden economics.

Boat gas is terribly expensive now.😕


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Anubis said:


> More rides now pay more.


I noticed that the pay for long trips has fallen
We used to get a multiplier surge
Now almost never
Just + 7 or whatever and that doesn’t help on 2-4 hours round trip
I don’t do one. I ask if they’re staying within the city limits and if they’re going any further I cancel
If everyone did that they would be forced to pay


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## 232439 (7 mo ago)

wallae said:


> I noticed that the pay for long trips has fallen
> We used to get a multiplier surge
> Now almost never
> Just + 7 or whatever and that doesn’t help on 2-4 hours round trip
> ...


I don't understand what Uber gets out of screwing drivers of pay. I got a $19 ping that goes from Minneapolis to Lakeville, that's so far that it goes through 5 cities and takes half hour or more.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Anubis said:


> I don't understand what Uber gets out of screwing drivers of pay. I got a $19 ping that goes from Minneapolis to Lakeville, that's so far that it goes through 5 cities and takes half hour or more.


Trying to offer a cheap long ride to the customer at the expense of the driver using +7 as bait
(Without reducing their ridiculously large cut on a long ride)


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Anubis said:


> More rides now pay more.


Well that's just vague.


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## 232439 (7 mo ago)

wallae said:


> Trying to offer a cheap long ride to the customer at the expense of the driver using +7 as bait
> (Without reducing their ridiculously large cut on a long ride)


It's their way of killing off taxis. They know they subsidize it to keep it cheap so please can remember to use the Uber instead of Taxis


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Anubis said:


> It's their way of killing off taxis. They know they subsidize it to keep it cheap so please can remember to use the Uber instead of Taxis


If we refused it would keep them in business 🤣


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

wallae said:


> their ridiculously large cut


I still don't understand the obsession with cuts.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> I still don't understand the obsession with cuts.


I don’t either… but on long trips with no pay coming back I see lowering it as an easy fix
I don’t like asking passengers to get out and unloading their luggage
But I do
Late last night
Are you staying in the city
No heading to ___
I’m sorry I have to be
I would have got 30 plus 9 surge
Using irs numbers cost is 30
I’m not going to see if I have a profit thanks to a big tip🤣
Long dark road through a swampy area where you see a dead deer on the road every 2 miles


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Anubis said:


> I don't understand what Uber gets out of screwing drivers of pay.


Um .... money?
Just a guess.


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## 232439 (7 mo ago)

UberBastid said:


> Um .... money?
> Just a guess.


No, it's to keep driver asses on road longer to get more coverage for pax so Uber throttles our pay to get us to stay on road longer to ear more


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

wallae said:


> I don’t either


To clarify, I referred to the obsession that *some* drivers have with the increased percentages that Uber keeps from the customer payments. I don't grasp why it matters. To me, only the amount I get paid matters.


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## 232439 (7 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> To clarify, I referred to the obsession that *some* drivers have with the increased percentages that Uber keeps from the customer payments. I don't grasp why it matters. To me, only the amount I get paid matters.


But when they ever keep decreasing it then it does matter. Uber surfs this forum


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Anubis said:


> Uber surfs this forum


Uber is a company, not an individual person. What job titles specifically do you *think* visit here routinely? Why do you think they visit?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Anubis said:


> But when they ever keep decreasing it then it does matter.


Convince me. Make your case. Go!


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

ChicagoHeat12 said:


> Was about $19k in the mid to late 90's.


$10k-$15k in the later 80s. 

1-2k up front, the rest on the day agreed upon. One could find cheaper on occasion, as low as $5k. No fronting on the ultra discounted product though as ot was usually stolen and whoever was selling it was looking for quick cash to go into hiding 😆 🤣 😂


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Anubis said:


> More rides now pay more.


You're going to see fluctuations in the offers as long as they keep upfront fares. It's their way of getting drivers without surge . 

They can target a few drivers rather than every driver in the area.


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## Flawlessbox (Oct 6, 2019)

I used to know what exactly I am going to get with multiplier but when they give out chump change for surge I know I will be bending over not knowing how bad.

Bring back multiplier and my 3 for $300 quest and I might go back driving on few weekends.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Convince me. Make your case. Go!


When people complain about the cut, they are obviously indirectly talking about their rate. 

I'll explain although not to convince you of anything as I believe you already know this and are just being argumentative to entertain yourself. On the off chance that you're just dense and really don't get it, here you go. 

There are several reasons why people express dissatisfaction in the manner of the split. 

1) many of us have been driving since there was a cut. I myself am an 80% er, meaning I used to get 80% of the fare. Rate cuts happened and they sucked but it was an easier pill to swallow knowing we were still getting 75 or 80% of the fare charged. This included surge, we got 75 or 80% of the total fare

2) we were led to believe that rates would ultimately increase. The only rates that increased were the riders, driver's stayed the same. An 80% driver went from making 80% to 65 or 60%. Since my Pay was initially based on a percentage it is ingrained in me to compare the split. My initial rate of pay was $1.45 per mile minus 20% 
30 cents per min minus 20%
Riders paid 1.45/ .30 for a non surged ride On the average, it cost them a little over 2.00 per mile. Driver's made 75 or 80% of that. Rates were cut, and cut. Before long riders were paying around $1.00 mile and less in many places. Now, In 2022, in the 2 markets I drive, riders are paying little over 2.00 per in total per ride. On average, drivers here make 75c-$1.10 per mile, in total on a ride. (I'm excluding bonuses and surges in these example estimates) 
If I mention the unfair spit of the rider's fare between uber and me, I am commenting on my too low rates AND saying that Uber is charging riders a high enough fare to pay me a higher rate simultaneously. Remember, we were led to believe rates would ultimately increase. 



3) if one were to Google search right now, "how much of the fare does an uber driver keep " the top result says we pay a 25% commission.









Variations on this question give the same or similar results. 









I understand the information is outdated, but it's the top result on Google and for the majority of Google search users, including myself and probably you at times, that's good enough. Google has become the go to for information and we blindly trust it. 

4) Uber has trained us with their surge pricing model that we make more when they charge more. Most drivers, when they see Uber has charged the rider more that usual, and Uber's cut is a higher percentage than usual, they feel ripped off. Why? Because uber trained us this way. 

5) the driver feels they aren't paid enough. They see uber is charging X. It's just easier to say uber is keeping 60% than to break down the fare into driver's rates & pax's rates and go on about driver's rates being to low. By pointing out the unfairness to the split, it is implied that our rates are to low and at the same time, points out that riders are willing to pay higher fares. Most people pick up on this, it's common sense. 

I'm sure I could add to the list but I'm going to stop here. This should cover 99% of situations to which you referred regarding people being obsessed with the cut. 

If you disagree with my explanation, there's no need to retort. I'm not going to engage any futher. 

If you find it helpful, book mark this post and refer back to it when you read a post that references a cut. If you find a situation in a post that I haven't covered, or are just having a problem inferring the author's grievance, feel free to reach out or apply a little common sense. 

I'm at a 7 year old's birthday party with several screaming children, typing on my phone with nonstop interruptions. If I've mistyped or rambled incoherently somewhere and you do not understand me, point it out and I'll gladly fix it.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Anubis said:


> I don't understand what Uber gets out of screwing drivers of pay. I got a $19 ping that goes from Minneapolis to Lakeville, that's so far that it goes through 5 cities and takes half hour or more.





Anubis said:


> No, it's to keep driver asses on road longer to get more coverage for pax so Uber throttles our pay to get us to stay on road longer to ear more


You're assuming every driver is getting the same offer. This trip was offered to 3 -6 drivers, maybe more. 

You got this trip offered from $19.00 someone probably was offered 17. And someone probably $29.00. Ever accept an offer and it just spins and spins then tells you another driver already accepted? 
Why does it take so long to tell you it was accepted by someone else? Because it's being offered to 4 other drivers for less money and they are slow to accept. 

Another driver posted screenshots of the same trip offer to two different drivers. The same trip, the payout was subsequently more to one of the drivers. 

Haven't you seen offers so low you couldn't imagine anyone taking it? 
Yet, you dont get thay same offer again. Why? Because it was offered to someone else for more, probably much more. 

Is brilliant on their behalf actually. They are basicaly taking bids and going with the lowest one.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Some quick background on me. I took my first Lyft and Uber trips in spring 2016. I've amassed over 7000 combined trips on both platforms including deliveries.

My comments that follow aren't intended to engage you further because you've already expressed your desire to toss out your opinions and jet. However, I welcome anyone to chime in with their thoughts if they can add value or alternative perspective. Of course, opinions backed by evidence is always better than mere opinion just for the sake of bellyaching.



Boca Ratman said:


> When people complain about the cut, they are obviously indirectly talking about their rate.


It's not wise to assume what "everyone" knows. You'd be surprised at the percentage of people who don't know the same as you. But I think it's weird to emphasize "Uber's cut or percentage" when they're really concerned about their own decreased compensation. It just seems to be counterproductive to their goal of getting more revenue.



Boca Ratman said:


> On the off chance that you're just dense and really don't get it, here you go.


It's genuine. I'm not into wasting time.



Boca Ratman said:


> we were led to believe that rates would ultimately increase.


By *whom* specifically? *How* did they do it specifically? Seriously.



Boca Ratman said:


> if one were to Google search right now, "how much of the fare does an uber driver keep " the top result says we pay a 25% commission.


Okay. Is Uber supposed to fix Google? I'm just not seeing the relevance.



Boca Ratman said:


> Most drivers, when they see Uber has charged the rider more that usual, and Uber's cut is a higher percentage than usual, they feel ripped off.


Okay. Well they're entitled to feel that way. If that were me, then I'd take my labor elsewhere where I didn't feel that way. Assuming there were another company that didn't rip me off. Or I'd start my own business as a sole proprietorship. Then I could keep the net revenue to myself.



Boca Ratman said:


> the driver feels they aren't paid enough.


Okay. This isn't unique to Uber. I know *many* people in many industries and positions who feel this way.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> Is brilliant on their behalf actually. They are basicaly taking bids and going with the lowest one.


Yeah, it's kinda like capitalism. Actually, I think a company called eBay was successful with a platform that enabled millions to do just that: auction to the highest bidder. What's more "fair market value" than that?


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## tkman (Apr 13, 2020)

Boca Ratman said:


> Is brilliant on their behalf actually. They are basicaly taking bids and going with the lowest one.


It feels like this is what I am experiencing. ( I only do uber eats and not rides.) Have not actually seen factual evidence of this with other drivers however it feels like what I am experiencing. Incredibly low offers that I am astounded anyone accepts. I have also had offers I have accepted at reasonable rates that immediately go away with some kind of message about a problem, and then it looks for other fairs. This offer-accept-issue, was so common when I first start driving, that I began to expect it. Has not been happening as much lately. It feels like desparate or new drivers are accepting anything. If you actually fully cost all the expenses of a ride or delivery, the low rates are not worth the Uber pay. The client tip is what makes a delivery worthwhile. If no tips I would stop driving instantly. It would be nice if more drivers looked at the fully costed expenses and declined poor offers. It would force the rates up or cause customers, who do not like to pay a sustainable price for the service, to stop using the service. Uber will continue to reduce the driver rates as long as drivers are still accepting. I've seen the same thing at some companies that are short term profit focused. They paid people less and less until turnover forced a change in policy. As long as people stayed at the lower rates the companies were good with the better profits and management was rewarded for the higher profits in the short term. The current market conditions look like we are returning to a labor surplus situation where hiring companies can drive wages down. Don't expect this to improve until the economy improves. My crystal ball says 3 years if a change in public direction happens, or a war will cause a change as well. If the current political policies continue, I expect this to be a 5 to 10 year situation. Solution: learn a new skill that is valued in the market, find a need and a way to be the solution for that need. I know this is general guidance and not much help, however it is a general economic truth.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> My comments that follow aren't intended to engage you further because you've already expressed your desire to toss out your opinions and jet. However, I welcome anyone to chime in with their thoughts if they can add value or alternative perspective.


I wasn't going to comment futher because I doubt your sincerity. However, after reading some of your replies to my comments I changed mind. 



Heisenburger said:


> It's not wise to assume what "everyone" knows.


No where did I say or imply that "everyone" knows anything. I would never make such a claim. The only way I could imagine myself saying something like that would be in an in person casual conversation. I would not mean "everyone" literally and I would expect the person to whom I was speaking to know I mean a lot of people or a certain group of people, or whatever the case may be.

In text conversation like here, with people I do not know and cannot see, I'm usually a little more selective with word choice. I still consider this a casual conversation however and I'm going to use slang, expressions and at times poor grammar. I type on my phone and there are going to be typos and auto correct mistakes. I also expect the reader to have some common sense. If I did use the expression "everyone knows..." I'm counting on the reader to not take me literally to mean all nearly 8 billion people of the world's population. When I say "drivers want..., think..., know... etc, I'm counting on the reader to know I can't possibly be speaking for every driver. 

I have no problem clarifying or explaining anything I say but there's no reason to imply I said something I absolutely did not. 






Heisenburger said:


> Okay. Is Uber supposed to fix Google? I'm just not seeing the relevance.


I don't see the relevance of your question to my post.

I don't see what makes you think I care what the results of the Google search are or that I think uber should do anything about the results. 

I am simply telling you why some drivers are so hyper focused on the split.

If a guy Google searches " how much of the fare do uber drivers keep" he'll see the top result that I posted via screen shot . If that guy then becomes a driver believing he gets 75% of the fare, he is going to be focusing on that split as his pay, in his mind, is directly related to what Uber is charging. It's not some complex theory. Explain how the Google search is not relevant to this driver being obsessed with the split. 

It's like if the weatherman says it going to rain so I put my car windows up based on that information. I got information and acted in it. I'd think It's not hard to understand. 












Personally, my reasons for checking and focusing on the split is to increase my payout. Specifically on surged rides. I'm more concerned with what pax are being charged than I am the % uber is keeping but I do not their cut. Why? Because ubers pay model is and has been since i started back in 2015 to pay drivers a more when it's surging. Uber has become less and less transparent with the pay structure on surged rides, so I gather as much information as possible so I can use it to my advantage. I've been gaming the surge for years, and I have done fairly well. I've learned that if I can check certain boxes on a ride, there is a strong likelihood my payout will be increased. I've gotten pretty good at it. 



















Neither of these rides had a surge amount attached on the request. 

If I see a dramatic shift in Uber's favor on the cut on several rides, and those rides checked all the boxes, it's time to figure out what's changed, and add those boxes to the list. Over the years, there have been a lot of changes. When it appears that Uber isn't splitting the extra surge or isn't splitting it in a way that makes me happy, I don't drive. This is my reason for being obsessed with the split. And I'm only obsessed with the split on non sticky surge rides in the Miami area. If I have a large sticky, I'm looking for a minimum fare and I don't care what they paid. I'll take 3 minute $14 dollar rides all night if i can.


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## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> Yeah, it's kinda like capitalism. Actually, I think a company called eBay was successful with a platform that enabled millions to do just that: auction to the highest bidder. What's more "fair market value" than that?


You took all the fun out of driving for Uber!
Now that I know that nobody else would accept the rides offered to me for any less makes me feel like a rube.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

tkman said:


> It feels like this is what I am experiencing. ( I only do uber eats and not rides.) Have not actually seen factual evidence of this with other drivers


I don't do eats so I don't know. 

In some markets, uber has what they call trip radar & upfront fares. The request comes in with the amount like on eats, and it goes out to several drivers, the amount of drivers that get the request is shown in the upper rt hand corner. 








Another driver posted two screenshots of the same offer with considerably different dollar amounts. 

I think eats requests go to only one driver at a time. Uber is only offering you 2 or 3 bucks It's the tips that cause the variations. There's really no wiggle room for them to offer it to other drivers for less money. Plus the ping lasts so long. With trip radar, you get 10 seconds and often it's no longer available when you do accept. 😆 🤣 😂 

Unless, there was another order that came in nearby and they stacked it with another order. 


I'm just speculating, I'd be curious to see what happens if 3 or 4 drivers got together and accepted offers at the same time.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> However, after reading some of your replies to my comments I changed mind.


 Thanks.



Boca Ratman said:


> No where did I say or imply that "everyone" knows anything.


 Thanks for clarifying.




Boca Ratman said:


> I don't see what makes you think I care what the results of the Google search are or that I think uber should do anything about the results


You brought up that example and you *seemed* to be speaking on the behalf of at least some segment of the current driver population.



Boca Ratman said:


> If a guy Google searches " how much of the fare do uber drivers keep" he'll see the top result that I posted via screen shot . If that guy then becomes a driver believing he gets 75% of the fare, he is going to be focusing on that split as his pay, in his mind, is directly related to what Uber is charging. It's not some complex theory. Explain how the Google search is not relevant to this driver being obsessed with the split.


No offense, but "that guy" is a complete moron. No other way to view that. It's 💯 his fault for being a poor researcher. He had to agree to a T&C from Uber to even take his first trip.



Boca Ratman said:


> Personally, my reasons for checking and focusing on the split is to increase my payout.


I see. Something that's happened before to me: rider is charged for trip by Uber $6. Uber pays me $7 for that same trip.

Because you're a fan of the percentage based model, I understand you to be in favor of receiving just $4.80 (80% of the customer charge of $6). Please confirm if I'm understanding your position.



Boca Ratman said:


> Because ubers pay model is and has been since i started back in 2015 to pay drivers a more when it's surging.


So your concern about your compensation is only when it's surging nearby?


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> No offense, but "that guy" is a complete moron. No other way to view that. It's 💯 his fault for being a poor researcher. He had to agree to a T&C from Uber to even take his first trip.


What about riders who see that erroneous 75%/25% information? 

They're charged $40, think driver gets $30 and don't tip when in reality he gets$10-$12.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> What about riders who see that erroneous 75%/25% information?


Do you have any particular reason to believe that most or even many of Uber's customers have both the time and the inclination to *proactively* seek to learn how Uber compensates drivers? I say it's a small minority.

I speak frankly and genuinely with many riders and it's relatively rare for them to inquire about how I'm compensated although I still manage to gently work it into many of those conversations as a bit of a PSA (public service announcement). They often stop listening and just feigning interest at this point.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> I figured out a few exploits and for the most part. I take advantage of them or I don't drive.


I'm just confused why you'd burn time here in lieu of even more exploitation.


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