# Uber's Pilot Teen Program Revoked Opt-Out!!!



## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

Uber has removed the opt-out option from the teen driver information page here:

https://www.uber.com/drive/seattle/...rget-email_1_10_us-seattle_d_en_us-teen-pilot

Why? Why have they, in less than 12 hours, removed that option? What about those of us that already opted out? Since they've decided to hide pre-arranged teen rides from drivers how will we know?

This is very serious to me and now that Uber has deactivated the existing Opt-Out page and removed all reference to it from the teen informational page I feel very vulnerable.

What is their reasoning behind keeping teen rides a "secret" from us experienced, highly rated drivers? Shouldn't we be aware?

I bet the parents that sign up for this are under the false assumption that these experienced, highly rated drivers are all on board and aware it's a minor while they're transporting their precious cargo.

Uber will be collecting more money for these rides:

******
*Are Teen Account fares different from other fares?*

For teen trips, the booking fee that Uber collects may be higher than a normal booking fee.
******

What about the experienced, highly rated drivers? They will not only NOT be told they're carrying around minors, Uber's keeping all of the extra money mommy & daddy are shelling out for this.

As a highly rated, experienced driver, native speaker, and a woman, you know I'm tops on the list to be assigned a minor. What happened to the Opt-Out I filled out? Since that option has been removed is my Opt-Out still valid?

Something very, very fishy is going on in the Emerald City.


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## chiefTomato (Aug 21, 2016)

I sent a support email asking that question for here in columbus. About the secrecy and if we aren't told by uber they are on a teen account, how can I take the ride since it is against TOS. Of course got ridiculous canned response explaining under 18 is against TOS. immediately replied that I need a human to actually read my question and provide a constructive answer. That was 8 hours ago... still waiting.

Interesting the opt out verbiage is removed. Its gone from the columbus page too now. And I unfortunately didn't opt out yet.

Awesome how they "did a ton of research over a year" im sure very little input was gathered from drivers, if at all. And now SURPRISE loyal divers, you get kids. Coming soon... uberAmbulance. Forget 911. Uber drivers will be happy to respond and deliver your baby or provide CPR.


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## theamp18 (Nov 9, 2016)

There needs to be a way for the driver to know that it is a teen account. If they don't, I would just continue to reject passengers under 18. They know most drivers don't want to be driving around teens so of course they just try and slip the rides in to look like a regular ride. Just be honest for once Uber! Offer incentives for taking teens. Be proactive not reactive. Come on Uber, you can do better.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

No...Uber can't do better. Uber won't do better. Uber needs to implode.


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## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

theamp18 said:


> There needs to be a way for the driver to know that it is a teen account. If they don't, I would just continue to reject passengers under 18. They know most drivers don't want to be driving around teens so of course they just try and slip the rides in to look like a regular ride. Just be honest for once Uber! Offer incentives for taking teens. Be proactive not reactive. Come on Uber, you can do better.


Exactly! What if we, as drivers, decide to end the ride early because... as we all know... teens have that extra special ability to be obnoxious.

If I KNOW it's a teen ride I can pull out my mom voice and 99.9% of the time teens acquiesce and we can get to the destination amicably.

Can't always tell a teen from a millennial. Mom voice sometimes works on millennials but is more often met with resentment/resistance & escalated obnoxious behavior.

I have a solid 4.93/4.94 rating on Uber with nearly 2K 5* rides. I'm good with people but Uber is setting me up for failure here.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> I have a solid 4.93/4.94 rating on Uber with nearly 2K 5* rides. I'm good with people but Uber is setting me up for failure here.


You really think teens are that tough? My experience with teens has been only good.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Coachman said:


> You really think teens are that tough? My experience with teens has been only good.


As a cab driver, 20 years ago, I never had problems with teenager's behavior. I think I had one run on me, but as far as behavior in a cab it wasn't a problem.

Cab drivers were able to put a certain fear of God into the kids, they thought we'd kick their asses or tell on them if they acted out. So they didn't take a chance.

Of course, that was a long time ago.


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## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

Coachman said:


> You really think teens are that tough? My experience with teens has been only good.


No, I can handle a misbehaving teen - but the difference in dealing with a teen vs. a millennial is what I'm talking about.


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## Go4 (Jan 8, 2017)

I intend to get these rides, ask are you over 18, if no, show them the TOS. After 5 min cancel as no show since no adult.


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## AZAV8R (Oct 7, 2016)

I opted out immediately when I saw this. I, too, wonder if that is still valid. It could be a lawsuit if I had taken a picture of the screen, which I didn't. What is it with this company and their shady, unethical business practices?


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

I smell a sue!


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## rubidoux (Jan 23, 2017)

This must be regional bc I didnt see anything about it on my app. But I for one would be relieved if teens could ride legit. Seriously if my kid was trying to get an uber home, Id be happy he had a safe ride. I avoid teens the best I can bc of the insurance issue, but ive picked up girls who looked to be 16 or 17 a couple of times in the middle of the night, one at a hotel 5 am after partying there all night, and I gave them rides. Id rather them not feel stuck in a shitty situation. At least if they have a teen acct im not putting my neck on the line for it.


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## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

rubidoux said:


> This must be regional bc I didnt see anything about it on my app. But I for one would be relieved if teens could ride legit. Seriously if my kid was trying to get an uber home, Id be happy he had a safe ride. I avoid teens the best I can bc of the insurance issue, but ive picked up girls who looked to be 16 or 17 a couple of times in the middle of the night, one at a hotel 5 am after partying there all night, and I gave them rides. Id rather them not feel stuck in a shitty situation. At least if they have a teen acct im not putting my neck on the line for it.


Yeah you will still have your neck on the line - could still be same as before, a teen using an adult's account or it could be one of the new teen rider accounts- as a driver we'll never know.

Uber is charging the parents extra under the "booking fee" so the driver won't see any of it plus Uber has stated that the driver will not be notified it is a teen passenger.

https://www.uber.com/drive/seattle/...rget-email_1_10_us-seattle_d_en_us-teen-pilot


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

I don't object on principle to hauling teens if their parents are involved but I am sure there are some special conditions involved. Like, if they jump out of the car, want to go someplace other than the first destination or have a suspicious adult with them, what are my responsibilities?

Also what happens if I have a minor and need to end the ride, chuck them out in a parking lot someplace? Sounds like trouble to me.


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## Harry Seaward (Mar 7, 2017)

Here is the PHX teen account info page. 
https://www.uber.com/drive/phoenix/...rget-email_1_26_us-phoenix_d_en_us-teen-pilot
The opt-out link at the bottom still works, in that it takes you to a google docs page, but it keeps saying my phone number is invalid. The same phone number Uber has pax calling me on every night.

Time to make a visit to the Hub.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Coachman said:


> You really think teens are that tough? My experience with teens has been only good.


Mine too, but that's not what OP's talking about.

Her main point is that Uber first offered an Opt-out. Too many people were taking that option, so their grand plan is falling flat on its face -- so they deleted the option.

I think one answer to this problem is to simply demand proof of age if you don't want to drive minors. Can't prove you're 18? Too bad, so sad. What 18 year-old doesn't have a drivers license, or voter registration card, or something with their DOB on it?

If they can't prove age, cancel because they are a minor...per the TOS. I would not wait 5 minutes to cancel because it just looks like you're going for the cancel fee, rather than the real issue.


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

The opt-out is still working here in Columbus, another test market. I did it yesterday, and also sent support a message letting them know this idea is a terrible one and I hope it's rethought.

It's beyond absurd that what RIGHT NOW, in every city other than these markets is a breach of the terms of service, because of the risk & liability, is now being encouraged and even hidden from the drivers in test markets.

The best drivers, with the highest rating will not be filtered and subjected to the highest risk & least rewarding passengers, with zero incentive to do so....the only people making more are Uber. Lol.

If the opt out doesn't work, or they reverse it, I will refuse to haul anyone that even COULD be a minor until they can prove their age. If they're underage, I cancel and move on. No. Fracking. Way. am I going to be shuttling unaccompanied minors around in my personal vehicle. Not exposing myself to that risk for a few dollars. It's not that all kids are trouble, they're not, but they bring added risks and legal hassles.

My wife can tell you a great story about what teenagers can do to your life if they want to - hers involves a very nice older woman working in a country club where my wife works, who got accused by a group of girls of being inappropriate and grabbing one of them naked in the shower. It ruined this woman's life, financially and professionally, until two of the girls later recanted and admitted they had made up the story because they were mad she kicked them out of the hot tub. She didn't get her job or her lost wages back, either.

Now, we all have cameras in the car (and if you don't you're a fool), but the potential for abuse and retribution against drivers is still too high with minors....there's a reason Uber forbade it. Better fight this hard, because it's a terrible trend that puts all the weight on us and absolves Uber of it.

Imagine you have a minor who's doing something really crappy in your car...you catch them sticking gum under the seat, or their parents on purpose or accidentally cancel the ride, or they're fighting or causing trouble. Do you do what you do with an adult? Stop & boot them and never give it another thought? Yeah...that's a can of worms. I just dumped someone's child off in an abandoned car lot somewhere. I'm sure that won't be an issue.

What if they strike you or touch you? Even if you're defensively trying to stop them, touching a child is a HUGE can of worms. With an adult? Hey, it's self defense. If it's a kid, ANYTHING you do that leaves a mark or is seen as disparate is going to make them the victim and you in some deep crap.

Are these likely issues, no, but they can happen...they happen to us with adults, it's absurd to think they can't with a minor. What's Uber's plan for these eventualities? Yeah, TS for you.


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## cdm813 (Jan 9, 2017)

Most teens don't have ID. How does Uber validate that the "teen" is over 13?


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

Uber doesn't care. They just want more money. As drivers, we're supposed to help the community, pick up old ladies with groceries or laundry, offer free water and treats. .. and "rideshare"... now we get to add babysitting to those feel good activities. 

It's all phoney. Uber is nothing but a greedy bandit cab company. Notice how they figured out a way to add an extra charge when we "help the community?"


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

cdm813 said:


> Most teens don't have ID. How does Uber validate that the "teen" is over 13?


It's going to be up to the parent who shares their account and authorizes the ride. Nothing to stop them from saying their 11 year old is 17, that I can see....yet another reason to avoid this stupid farce.


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## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

Harry Seaward said:


> Here is the PHX teen account info page.
> https://www.uber.com/drive/phoenix/...rget-email_1_26_us-phoenix_d_en_us-teen-pilot
> The opt-out link at the bottom still works, in that it takes you to a google docs page, but it keeps saying my phone number is invalid. The same phone number Uber has pax calling me on every night.
> 
> Time to make a visit to the Hub.


I went to your teen information page. It is a lot more complete than Seattle's. It appears your opt out page is functional now - they've completely removed the phone number.

Seattle's teen information page is significantly briefer with no option to opt out:

https://www.uber.com/drive/seattle/...rget-email_1_10_us-seattle_d_en_us-teen-pilot

ETA - contrast Seattle's to Phoenix:

https://www.uber.com/drive/phoenix/...rget-email_1_26_us-phoenix_d_en_us-teen-pilot

(If someone can link me to Columbus I'll post it here)


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

JimKE said:


> I think one answer to this problem is to simply demand proof of age if you don't want to drive minors.


You can be deactivated for asking for ID.

This is surreal. Uber starting a teen ride program without clarifying the T&C and letting drivers know they're covered in an accident. Just when you think they can't stoop any lower.

This is a terrible idea.


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

FL_Dex said:


> You can be deactivated for asking for ID.


It's coming down to damned if you do, damned if you don't. I guess the smart thing to do for those who can't opt out is to avoid rides likely to be kids (schools, mostly), and if they appear at all to be minors, cancel before they get in the car and cite some phony reason.

It's like the gay cake bakers, just find some other reason you can't bake the cake - don't tell them what you're objecting to.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

rubidoux said:


> This must be regional bc I didnt see anything about it on my app. But I for one would be relieved if teens could ride legit. Seriously if my kid was trying to get an uber home, Id be happy he had a safe ride. I avoid teens the best I can bc of the insurance issue, but ive picked up girls who looked to be 16 or 17 a couple of times in the middle of the night, one at a hotel 5 am after partying there all night, and I gave them rides. Id rather them not feel stuck in a shitty situation. At least if they have a teen acct im not putting my neck on the line for it.


It will never come to CA, PUC rules forbid it because we're not fingerprinted and background checked.

For those in the test markets I'd check your local laws about transporting unaccompanied minors.



FL_Dex said:


> You can be deactivated for asking for ID.


Where did you get this absurd idea? Show us where Uber states you can be deactivated for asking to see an ID?


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

swingset said:


> It's coming down to damned if you do, damned if you don't.


I should have been more clear...I agree with doing it. Just pointing out you can be deactivated for the practice. I'd rather be deactivated than get in trouble over someone else's kid.


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## Harry Seaward (Mar 7, 2017)

Uber sent me a link to the 'correct' optout page.
http://t.uber.com/teenaccountsoptout


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

Beur said:


> Where did you get this absurd idea? Show us where Uber states you can be deactivated for asking to see an ID?


Seriously? Okay, here's a thought. Let me tell Uber that you're asking for personally identifiable information from certain young, female passengers. Specifically, name, address and DoB in the form of ID. I'll bet we can measure the time to your deactivation with a stopwatch. We could start a pool! I'll take 20 minutes.


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

FL_Dex said:


> I should have been more clear...I agree with doing it. Just pointing out you can be deactivated for the practice. I'd rather be deactivated than get in trouble over someone else's kid.


Agreed, completely.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Well I think this pretty much puts to bed once and for all the debate about whether minors are covered by Uber's insurance. Obviously they are.

(Now cue the critics who will claim that if you take a minor under the teen program they're covered but if you take a minor as a regular UberX they're not.)


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## Harry Seaward (Mar 7, 2017)

FL_Dex said:


> Seriously? Okay, here's a thought. Let me tell Uber that you're asking for personally identifiable information from certain young, female passengers. Specifically, name, address and DoB in the form of ID. I'll bet we can measure the time to your deactivation with a stopwatch. We could start a pool! I'll take 20 minutes.


Prior to the 'teen pilot program', how else were you supposed to know whether or not you could legally transport a young-looking pax? If a 14 year old took a trip with you and you did nothing to verify their age, sounds like you're liable and not Uber if something goes wrong.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

You could opt out by tanking your rating below 4.8


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

nickd8775 said:


> You could opt out by tanking your rating below 4.8


Haul around a bunch of kids and it'll probably happen on its own.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

If you think the the top brass at Uber cares about anything besides money you are crazy.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Man


Surgeless in Seattle said:


> Uber has removed the opt-out option from the teen driver information page here:
> 
> https://www.uber.com/drive/seattle/...rget-email_1_10_us-seattle_d_en_us-teen-pilot
> 
> ...


Many more news stories to come.

Uber driver drips teenagers off at crack house . . .


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't really see what the big deal is about transporting a teenager.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't really see what the big deal is about transporting a teenager.


They may not be legally responsible for damage they cause. They can get into a fight with you and hit you and you can't hit back. Many reasons. They are not adults. I don't want to babysit and drive your kid around. I'm not a soccer mom. I'm a dog daddy. I'd sooner drive dogs around.


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## Fatmanwa (Dec 17, 2016)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> Uber has removed the opt-out option from the teen driver information page here:
> 
> https://www.uber.com/drive/seattle/...rget-email_1_10_us-seattle_d_en_us-teen-pilot
> 
> ...


Wow, just read the website, that sounds like a load of bs. Why would anyone want to drive a minor that will increase your liability with no extra pay!


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Not only a bad program for drivers, but it puts predators in the drivers seat, literally. It will end when something bad happens, hopefully it will not be anything bad for the teen and just something bad for Uber.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> As a highly rated, experienced driver, native speaker, and a woman, you know I'm tops on the list to be assigned a minor.


That's an understatement of epic proportions. Your local uber operations team will automatically put those trips on you when online. You just hear a sound & notice it gave you a trip {definitely Teen pool}


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Lee239 said:


> They may not be legally responsible for damage they cause. They can get into a fight with you and hit you and you can't hit back. Many reasons. They are not adults. I don't want to babysit and drive your kid around. I'm not a soccer mom. I'm a dog daddy. I'd sooner drive dogs around.


Who tells you these things?

First, their parents would be liable for the damage. The teen would be chargeable with a crime of they intentionally damage your vehicle.

Can't hit a teen? Really? So If a teen attacks you, you can't defend yourself?

You people are hilarious. Look, if you do t want to take teens, then just don't take them.

It's not rocket science.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> Who tells you these things?
> 
> First, their parents would be liable for the damage. The teen would be chargeable with a crime of they intentionally damage your vehicle.
> 
> ...


Perhaps all interesting thoughts to ponder in jail waiting to prove your innocence. Be sure to share what you're accused of with your cellies to get some valuable advice.


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## Slim Pete (Nov 21, 2014)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> Uber has removed the opt-out option from the teen driver information page here:
> 
> https://www.uber.com/drive/seattle/...rget-email_1_10_us-seattle_d_en_us-teen-pilot
> 
> ...


Sadly, you're not going to be highly rated for long, now with teens rating you. Remember, Uber has made it clear in the FAQ that the teens can indeed rate their drivers.



chiefTomato said:


> .....Uber drivers will be happy to respond and deliver your baby or provide CPR.


I wouldn't mind providing CPR to a HOT GIRL..


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Red Leader said:


> Who tells you these things?
> 
> First, their parents would be liable for the damage. The teen would be chargeable with a crime of they intentionally damage your vehicle.
> 
> ...


You can defend yourself in court as long as you can afford a good lawyer.


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## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't really see what the big deal is about transporting a teenager.


To start off with, you won't know it's a teen ride. Is that a baby faced millennial that just hopped out 1/2 mile early or 14 yo precious cargo the parents have paid extra for the privilege?


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## d0n (Oct 16, 2016)

Liability for a fee I won't see?

**** sign me in.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

So long as I can say No, let Uber do their stupid kid's app. But WOW! ... If they don't let you Opt Out, that sucks! Sorry Seattle. For once, California has an advantage.

There is probably a small market for this service and if it keeps some Pup Driver bottled up in school traffic with a mile long line of soccer moms that's more opportunity for the big dogs. If I can Opt Out.

But, Travis is still deluded. He can tap a revenue source but it will still be a pain for drivers. And no extra incentive for drivers? Let drivers like Coachman and StrayCat have all they can take.

Brat: "Why can't my girl friend ride too?"
Pup Driver: "Because her parents didn't approve it. Does not show on app. Only you!"
Brat: "But the other driver took her the last time"
Pup driver: "Then it must be okay. Get in."

OR

15 Year Old Brat: "this is my sister, she is riding with me."
Pup Driver: "she doesn't look like she is 13. Maybe 10."
15 Year Old Brat: "my mom needed me to pick her up from school."
Pup Driver: "okay, get in." 

In both above scenarios, the Big Dog Driver wouldn't even be having the conversation. They have already cancelled the ride.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> To start off with, you won't know it's a teen ride. Is that a baby faced millennial that just hopped out 1/2 mile early or 14 yo precious cargo the parents have paid extra for the privilege?


Why would I treat someone different just because they are 14 instead of 18?



2Peaks said:


> So long as I can say No, let Uber do their stupid kid's app. But WOW! ... If they don't let you Opt Out, that sucks! Sorry Seattle. For once, California has an advantage.
> 
> There is probably a small market for this service and if it keeps some Pup Driver bottled up in school traffic with a mile long line of soccer moms that's more opportunity for the big dogs. If I can Opt Out.
> 
> ...


The 10 year old wouldn't be unaccompanied if the teen was present, right?


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> Uber has removed the opt-out option from the teen driver information page here:
> 
> https://www.uber.com/drive/seattle/...rget-email_1_10_us-seattle_d_en_us-teen-pilot
> 
> ...


I guess this is the only time I can say I'm glad to have a 4.7 rating.



Surgeless in Seattle said:


> Uber has removed the opt-out option from the teen driver information page here:
> 
> https://www.uber.com/drive/seattle/...rget-email_1_10_us-seattle_d_en_us-teen-pilot
> 
> ...


The booking fee maybe higher?Got to love how uber always give themself more money and forgets about the driver.Just cancel once you see yourself going towards a school.


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

Pretty soon uberbus. Time to get the brady bunch van. New offer in uber "uberschoolvan"

.30 cents a mile picking up to 12 kids from varies parts of city. Kids are next in line under teens pretty soon.


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## CatchyMusicLover (Sep 18, 2015)

FL_Dex said:


> Seriously? Okay, here's a thought. Let me tell Uber that you're asking for personally identifiable information from certain young, female passengers. Specifically, name, address and DoB in the form of ID.


Right, because people in retail would never ask people to show ID...


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## Steveyoungerthanmontana (Nov 19, 2016)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> Uber has removed the opt-out option from the teen driver information page here:
> 
> https://www.uber.com/drive/seattle/...rget-email_1_10_us-seattle_d_en_us-teen-pilot
> 
> ...


In Los Angeles I pick up middle school and teen brats all the time. The kids don't want to ride the bus, and the parents don't want to take them, and UBER is a two dollar ride from their house to school. The prices are so low that little kids can take UBER. It's big money for UBER. Some days that's all I do, take kids to school, and then I even pick kids up who are skipping class, late for class, going to the beach instead. UBER has made skipping school a real and viable option with how cheap it is.


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

Im seeing some of these comments and its just sad. More and more people dont care about much as the farm house keeps getting crowded with sheeples. When ever uber does anything "for the people" its always for travis. 

Oh its fine for travis to say no tips. Its fine for travis to protect the pax and no protection for drivers. Its fine uber has to know our speeds,know how much we log in and out, have data bases of all pax and drivers. Oh its fine to have no privacy as a person. Oh its fine noone questions how travis made this into a billion dollar corp going threw licenses,tapes,taxes ,scandals ect...

Yea its also fine that water commeing out of our faucets has lead,floride and all sorts of toxins.

Its fine robots will take over a corrupt country where elites can do whatever as we people have to follow the laws and shut up its good for you lifestyle.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

It's just like Service Animals. Uber can't even follow there own TOS on that one too.

My advice to you. Just 1* the account and move on.


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## Bpr2 (Feb 21, 2017)

swingset said:


> The opt-out is still working here in Columbus, another test market. I did it yesterday, and also sent support a message letting them know this idea is a terrible one and I hope it's rethought.
> 
> It's beyond absurd that what RIGHT NOW, in every city other than these markets is a breach of the terms of service, because of the risk & liability, is now being encouraged and even hidden from the drivers in test markets.
> 
> ...


One reason I have an auto open umbrella next to me. Pax gets funky, open it up for a shield of sorts.


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

Bpr2 said:


> One reason I have an auto open umbrella next to me. Pax gets funky, open it up for a shield of sorts.


The force is strong with you padawan


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

CatchyMusicLover said:


> Right, because people in retail would never ask people to show ID...


Try it then. Report back on how that goes.


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## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

FL_Dex said:


> Try it then. Report back on how that goes.


I have. If they appear to be a minor I ask, "Are you 18 or over?" If they say yes I ask, "Please don't take this the wrong way but I need to verify with an ID because transporting a minor could get me fired or worse." They don't show ID they don't ride.

A store clerk checks ID for people that look young who try and buy cigarettes or alcohol. That's not discrimination. In California there are rules and regs that I need to follow regarding unaccompanied minors. You better believe I cover my a&$ and make sure they aren't minors before starting the trip.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

drivininsac said:


> lease don't take this the wrong way but I need to verify with an ID


If you're asking female pax for personally identifiable information, Uber is going to have a fit...if they find out about it. Which will only be if someone complains.

PM me your real name and I'll let driver support know you're demanding personally identifiable information in the form of an ID. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected. If you're wrong, you're out of a crappy sideline job for a few days. Kind of a win-win either way.


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## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

FL_Dex said:


> If you're asking female pax for personally identifiable information, Uber is going to have a fit...if they find out about it. Which will only be if someone complains.
> 
> PM me your real name and I'll let driver support know you're demanding personally identifiable information in the form of an ID. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected. If you're wrong, you're out of a crappy sideline job for a few days. Kind of a win-win either way.


Show me exactly where in the TOS it says, "Your driver cannot ask for your identification." Exactly where. It doesn't.

The privacy policy is written to cover Uber handing out personal information. If I ask for ID and you supply it that's on you. And what's on an identification? Your address? You mean....The place you want to go anyway?

I also have the right to refuse service unless other State, Federal, or locals laws and regulations say otherwise.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> Uber has removed the opt-out option from the teen driver information page here:
> 
> https://www.uber.com/drive/seattle/...rget-email_1_10_us-seattle_d_en_us-teen-pilot
> 
> ...


See... I knew there are benefits to being a low rated driver!

Anyway, what drivers need to do is simply refuse to take minors when they pull up and it's an unaccompanied teen. Uber's busy introducing all these changes without even consulting with drivers. We need to firmly say "no thanks" and let them know that, as their partners, we decline.


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

Im an IC i have the right to deny a passenger in my car. If you giveing me all these rules on how to run my buisness then make me an employee


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Uber's busy introducing all these changes without even consulting with drivers. We need to firmly say "no thanks" and let them know that, as their partners, we decline.


It's too bad Jeff Jones isn't at Uber anymore. I'm sure he would have stood up for the drivers...


----------



## DeplorableDonald (Feb 16, 2017)

chiefTomato said:


> I sent a support email asking that question for here in columbus. About the secrecy and if we aren't told by uber they are on a teen account, how can I take the ride since it is against TOS. Of course got ridiculous canned response explaining under 18 is against TOS. immediately replied that I need a human to actually read my question and provide a constructive answer. That was 8 hours ago... still waiting.
> 
> Interesting the opt out verbiage is removed. Its gone from the columbus page too now. And I unfortunately didn't opt out yet.
> 
> Awesome how they "did a ton of research over a year" im sure very little input was gathered from drivers, if at all. And now SURPRISE loyal divers, you get kids. Coming soon... uberAmbulance. Forget 911. Uber drivers will be happy to respond and deliver your baby or provide CPR.


Washington D.C. Government was talking about Uber as an alternative to 911 for non-emergency rides because D.C. residents call 911 & an ambulance for anything. Hemorrhoids, hangnails, hangovers, call 911.

I don't think it passed but it was under consideration.

I'm sure Rohit and the gang would fight tooth and nail cleanup fees for blood or other bodily fluids.


----------



## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

drivininsac said:


> Show me exactly where in the TOS it says, "Your driver cannot ask for your identification." Exactly where. It doesn't.


Then you have nothing to worry about, do you?

Sooo, one of you tough guys send me your real name and where you work. I'll contact Uber's media people, tell them you're doing it and ask if they're okay with it...on the record. If you're right, the company will back you up. If you're wrong, they'll deactivate you. I agree about asking their age, the only point of disagreement is whether you can, as an Uber driver, demand an ID. The answer I got to that question was 'no' but it's not that hard to back check.

I'd say one of us should ask driver support for clarification but we all know how that would go. First you'd get a response explaining the airport queue. Then you'd get a second response about not being paired up with that pax again. Trying to get a straight answer from them is an unpaid chore all by itself. Someone here has to work at a green light hub. Surely they could get a clear answer.


----------



## DeplorableDonald (Feb 16, 2017)

These guys don't want to opt-out...


----------



## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

AZAV8R said:


> I opted out immediately when I saw this. I, too, wonder if that is still valid. It could be a lawsuit if I had taken a picture of the screen, which I didn't. What is it with this company and their shady, unethical business practices?


It's in their blood.


----------



## bigmoxy (May 22, 2016)

I was able to opt out this morning (Seattle) using a link sent to me from a green light hub person.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

grams777 said:


> Perhaps all interesting thoughts to ponder in jail waiting to prove your innocence. Be sure to share what you're accused of with your cellies to get some valuable advice.


Nonsense. Any female passenger can accuse you of sexual assault on any ride. There's no higher risk from teens. If you have a dashcam you don't have to worry about sitting in jail.


----------



## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

My biggest concern at the moment is the parent calling during the trip to check on things. I use my phone for navigation and I don't take calls while I'm driving. All I need is an overly concerned parent cancelling the trip or filing a complaint because I didn't take their call while I was in rush hour traffic with their beloved offspring in the back.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't really see what the big deal is about transporting a teenager.


The fear of teens is based on several ridiculous myths that are adhered to by about 95% of the board:

First, that if you drive a minor the trip will not be covered by Uber insurance and therefore you are likely to lose everything you own when the parents sue you.

Second, if you drive a minor you'll be falsely accused of sexual misconduct and spend a few years in the penitentiary.

And third, that minors are horrific brats that will make your life miserable.

None of these are true.


----------



## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

Jagent said:


> Uber doesn't care. They just want more money. As drivers, we're supposed to help the community, pick up old ladies with groceries or laundry, offer free water and treats. .. and "rideshare"... now we get to add babysitting to those feel good activities.
> 
> It's all phoney. Uber is nothing but a greedy bandit cab company. Notice how they figured out a way to add an extra charge when we "help the community?"


 I know, Uber could care less what drivers think, just take a look at uberpool? Some drivers do it but a lot of drivers hate it and its very hard or damn near impossible to opt out of uberpool. They're also increasing their booking fee? What else is new from this dysfunctional company....It's beyond ridiculous.


----------



## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

So, what is the official minimum age now? Thirteen?


----------



## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

Fatmanwa said:


> Wow, just read the website, that sounds like a load of bs. Why would anyone want to drive a minor that will increase your liability with no extra pay!


 I call bullshit on this whole idea, Booking fee increase, They just raised the booking fee a month ago in my market .....Greed man!



Lee239 said:


> Not only a bad program for drivers, but it puts predators in the drivers seat, literally. It will end when something bad happens, hopefully it will not be anything bad for the teen and just something bad for Uber.


 I could see that happening, Very bad idea.



DeplorableDonald said:


> These guys don't want to opt-out...
> 
> View attachment 107800
> View attachment 107801


Foot massage anyone?



Driving and Driven said:


> So, what is the official minimum age now? Thirteen?


 Yup, The official age is 13


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

grams777 said:


> Perhaps all interesting thoughts to ponder in jail waiting to prove your innocence. Be sure to share what you're accused of with your cellies to get some valuable advice.


You still haven't pointed out what crime would have been committed. Let me help you out.....

There is no age limit that prevents you from protecting yourself from an attacker.



Lee239 said:


> You can defend yourself in court as long as you can afford a good lawyer.


As I said to the other guy....what charge would you be defending yourself against? Self defense, against a minor trying to injure you, is not a crime.

You guys really don't know anything about law do you?


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Red Leader said:


> You still haven't pointed out what crime would have been committed. Let me help you out.....
> 
> There is no age limit that prevents you from protecting yourself from an attacker.
> 
> ...


It's your word against their's if they end up with an injury and you don't you will have a free phone call from jail.


----------



## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

Coachman said:


> The fear of teens is based on several ridiculous myths that are adhered to by about 95% of the board:
> 
> First, that if you drive a minor the trip will not be covered by Uber insurance and therefore you are likely to lose everything you own when the parents sue you.
> 
> ...


I beg to differ. I know for a fact that if a teen makes a false accusation the ramifications are much worse than from an adult. In family court it goes guilt first until you can prove innocence.

Too many lives to count have been ruined by adolescents making false accusations.

A quality webcam is definitely required!


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Lee239 said:


> It's your word against their's if they end up with an injury and you don't you will have a free phone call from jail.


No you won't. Like I said, you don't know anything about the law. You should do some research.



Surgeless in Seattle said:


> I beg to differ. I know for a fact that if a teen makes a false accusation the ramifications are much worse than from an adult. In family court it goes guilt first until you can prove innocence.
> 
> Too many lives to count have been ruined by adolescents making false accusations.
> 
> A quality webcam is definitely required!


If a teen in your car makes an accusation, and in the highly unlikely event you get arrested, you are not going to family court.


----------



## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

bigmoxy said:


> I was able to opt out this morning (Seattle) using a link sent to me from a green light hub person.


Why did they remove the Opt Out option from the website?

Would you care to share the Opt Out link, please?


----------



## bigmoxy (May 22, 2016)

http://t.uber.com/teenaccountsoptout

It brings up a Google doc


----------



## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

FL_Dex said:


> Then you have nothing to worry about, do you?
> 
> Sooo, one of you tough guys send me your real name and where you work. I'll contact Uber's media people, tell them you're doing it and ask if they're okay with it...on the record. If you're right, the company will back you up. If you're wrong, they'll deactivate you. I agree about asking their age, the only point of disagreement is whether you can, as an Uber driver, demand an ID. The answer I got to that question was 'no' but it's not that hard to back check.
> 
> I'd say one of us should ask driver support for clarification but we all know how that would go. First you'd get a response explaining the airport queue. Then you'd get a second response about not being paired up with that pax again. Trying to get a straight answer from them is an unpaid chore all by itself. Someone here has to work at a green light hub. Surely they could get a clear answer.


I just asked them. Now go away.


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> You still haven't pointed out what crime would have been committed. Let me help you out.....
> 
> There is no age limit that prevents you from protecting yourself from an attacker.
> 
> ...


Any number of crimes dealing with minors. They say he touched me or kissed me. Now what do you do?

Now even being accused of anything having to do with a minor makes you a target in any jail or prison. Guilt, innocence, or the law are irrelevant at that point. You're the lowest of the low and branded as a chomo (child molestor). They can even come after you in hours right after jail intake in some cases.

Why even get anywhere near that extra risk of being alone with a minor for an extra $2.40 min fare? You've got a dashcam. Great. You better stay in range of it at all times, hope it was recording properly, save copies of all rides for about 7 years, and hope the recordings are intact.

It's not the 'law' that worries me as much as reality. I know enough about the law having spent well into 6 figures defending myself though trial in a civil case. Even though the jury found in my favor, I had to sell my house to pay for my attorney fees. All I could recover from the plaintiff was about $10k in court costs.

The risk / reward is not anywhere close to being worth making an extra $2.40 or whatever minus car expenses.

Also see:

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume9/j9_3_6.htm

http://boredombash.com/what-happens-to-pedophiles-in-jail/

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/guilty-until-proven-innocent

https://www.google.com/search?q=chomo+in+prison


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

grams777 said:


> Any number of crimes dealing with minors. They say he touched me or kissed me. Now what do you do?
> 
> Now even being accused of anything having to do with a minor makes you a target in any jail or prison. Guilt, innocence, or the law are irrelevant at that point. You're the lowest of the low and branded as a chomo (child molestor). They can even come after you in hours right after jail intake in some cases.
> 
> ...


Someone falsely accuses you? Simple. Either say nothing or deny, if I fact you did nothing. The police can only arrest for a felony. A misdemeanor committed outside their presence they can't touch. The victim has to arrest. And you can arrest the claimed victim as much as they can arrest you.

Oh...and before the DA will even consider charging you, the case has to pass the smell test. And they are quite good at fleshing out these things.

As for the articles you posted? They are simply news stories. You have no idea what the real story is from those articles. And BTW.....it doesn't happen nearly as much as you think it does. So much for what you claim "reality" is.

And a minor? Their parents are liable.

As for your case? You really want to compare a civil case to this? Seriously?

Like I said....much ado about nothing. Remember....you are an independent contractor. You can refuse to take any ride. Uber even tells you that. But let's propose this...since you seem so terrified about this subject......

You get a call to a not so decent part of town. And the pax turns out to be a teen female. To late at night and this kid is all alone. Do you take her?

Here's what I did......

I drove her home. Called her parents to verify the address and gave them my number should they need to contact me. And guess what? No problem.

So...do you have a dash cam? What would you do?


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## Lyle (Nov 11, 2015)

Last summer I picked up a very young looking girl from a nice neighborhood. She wasn't real young but it was questionable if she was 18 or not. Now I don't mind if people want to sit in the front seat. This girl got in the front seat and she was wearing some really short shorts. and a very skimpy halter top. She was polite not over friendly but I started to feel uncomfortable. I am an older man and started thinking all this girl would need to say is " That man touched me" and I would be in a world of trouble. I don't have a dash cam so I got my phone and turned on the voice recorder app I have. At least is something happened I would have a audio recording if anything would have happened.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

drivininsac said:


> I just asked them. Now go away.


That;s an easy way to get out of a ride, most minors won't carry ID


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Red Leader said:


> Someone falsely accuses you? Simple. Either say nothing or deny, if I fact you did nothing. The police can only arrest for a felony. ?


You are living in a dream world and making stuff up to try to prove that your point is always right. A child can in theory slash themselves with a box cutter and say you did it to them. Even with dash cam video the cops are not going to give you a chance to review the video you are going to jail and if its' a Friday night you won't see a judge until Monday so enjoy your stay. Like someone else said guilty until proven innocent. Cops don't know you why would they think you are innocent? They always think people are guilty or want to believe it. Their are laws you may not know about. There is a law in many places that if a man commits domestic abuse against the woman and the police see trauma that the man is arrested even if the victim does not want the person to be arrested or say that nothing happened. I would think it's a worse scenario when a kid is involved.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> Why would I treat someone different just because they are 14 instead of 18?
> 
> The 10 year old wouldn't be unaccompanied if the teen was present, right?


A 10 year old with a minor is an unaccompanied child. Does the TOS say the 10 year old can ride? Not in the notes I have seen on this issue. Says 13 to 18.

But as I said, the Pups can have them. Leave the good rides for the Big Dogs.

And the Floridians worried about checking I.d.. RideShare is not a Right. The passenger can Opt Out of giving I.d. It is not compulsory. They can Cancel and wait for a Pup to give them a ride.



Red Leader said:


> Someone falsely accuses you? Simple. Either say nothing or deny, if I fact you did nothing. The police can only arrest for a felony. A misdemeanor committed outside their presence they can't touch. The victim has to arrest. And you can arrest the claimed victim as much as they can arrest you.
> 
> Oh...and before the DA will even consider charging you, the case has to pass the smell test. And they are quite good at fleshing out these things.
> 
> ...


If you are such a Good Samaritan, did you also go to Uber and say, "Don't charge the passenger account"?


----------



## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

Red Leader said:


> Someone falsely accuses you? Simple. Either say nothing or deny, if I fact you did nothing. The police can only arrest for a felony. A misdemeanor committed outside their presence they can't touch. The victim has to arrest. And you can arrest the claimed victim as much as they can arrest you.
> 
> Oh...and before the DA will even consider charging you, the case has to pass the smell test. And they are quite good at fleshing out these things.
> 
> ...


I call bullshit having had a family member falsely accused. You're just plain wrong.

The biggest hole here - YOU DO NOT KNOW YOU'RE DRIVING A MINOR!

You have NO parent's number to call unless they contact you first.

Are you going to hold ALL youngish looking pax hostage in your vehicle to their originally entered destination? If you've been driving any length of time you know that destination gets changed. You're talking kidnapping if you refuse to let that baby faced co-ed out - that's really 21 or you're facing child endangerment by dropping that mature looking, all made up 14 yo off 1/2 mile from Buffy's house - she's really meeting up with that cute boy from instagram that isn't really all that cute and isn't really a boy ... so even though you're not the pedophile you just delivered her into the clutches of one.

Or everything goes great with that Instagram cutie - but little Emma didn't make it to her cello lesson. Do you think she's going to fess up or throw the easiest target under the bus - after all, she's already proven she's willing to lie by skipping cello to hook up with Brandon. YOU! The Uber driver! You pulled over and just told her to get out!

Do you HAVE a dash cam? Are you storing ALL the footage? Is it recording audio?

All this so Uber can collect more money - remember the parent's money they're paying for the extra care from the highly experienced, highly rated drivers is ALL going in their coffers.

Think Uber will have your back? Wait? What? They're just a technology company it is YOUR business, my independent contractor friend.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

swingset said:


> It's coming down to damned if you do, damned if you don't. I guess the smart thing to do for those who can't opt out is to avoid rides likely to be kids (schools, mostly), and if they appear at all to be minors, cancel before they get in the car and cite some phony reason.
> 
> It's like the gay cake bakers, just find some other reason you can't bake the cake - don't tell them what you're objecting to.


That's why there's now a teen pilot program.



Trafficat said:


> Why would I treat someone different just because they are 14 instead of 18?


The same reason a bartender would treat a 21 year old differently than a 19 year old.


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Lee239 said:


> You are living in a dream world and making stuff up to try to prove that your point is always right. A child can in theory slash themselves with a box cutter and say you did it to them. Even with dash cam video the cops are not going to give you a chance to review the video you are going to jail and if its' a Friday night you won't see a judge until Monday so enjoy your stay. Like someone else said guilty until proven innocent. Cops don't know you why would they think you are innocent? They always think people are guilty or want to believe it. Their are laws you may not know about. There is a law in many places that if a man commits domestic abuse against the woman and the police see trauma that the man is arrested even if the victim does not want the person to be arrested or say that nothing happened. I would think it's a worse scenario when a kid is involved.


You are simply delusional.

Go with your paranoia.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> You are simply delusional.
> 
> Go with your paranoia.


The cops are going to see if it passes the smell test and it may not, but do you really want to have to lose the time to either talk to the cops, or be taken inside to talk to the cops?


----------



## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Red Leader said:


> You are simply delusional.
> 
> Go with your paranoia.


Just get your license plate holder installed:

"Mom's Taxi"

or one of those little yellow signs, "Soccer Mom On Board"


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> I call bullshit having had a family member falsely accused. You're just plain wrong.
> 
> The biggest hole here - YOU DO NOT KNOW YOU'RE DRIVING A MINOR!
> 
> ...


Why all the horrific fantasizing about what could happen with a minor? You realize that any male rider you pick up and put in your back seat could strangle you at a moment's notice, right? Your dash cam and pepper spray are not going to stop him.

The risks are just not there.

The dangers of picking up drunks are far greater than picking up minors.


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> I call bullshit having had a family member falsely accused. You're just plain wrong.
> 
> The biggest hole here - YOU DO NOT KNOW YOU'RE DRIVING A MINOR!
> 
> ...


This is the perfect example of a failed argument trying to live on life support. Simply trying to alter what happened is the sign of desperation. But let's address your silly claims......

No parent to call? Both father and mother were there on speaker phone. And guess what? They called her also. Funny how they were also at the destination when we arrived.

Who said anything about holding anyone hostage? Want out of the car? No problem. Get out. I have people I can notify where you were dropped off. Including the police. What she does when she decides to get out of the car isn't my problem.

Oh..and if you can't tell the difference between a 14 yr old and a 21 yr old in person.....you have some serious problems.

Yes...the dash cam records video and audio. And is backed up for quite a while. and guess what? You can match up the sights seen on the dash cam with the gps trail you leave behind.

As for cello practice? Really? Let's go with that......you can pull over any time and toss a passenger for any reason. And a passenger can get out anything else they want. Those actions will show up on the multitude of tracking devices used to view you in real time as you drive this kid. Now....would you? And in this case, why? Hmmm...nothing fishy about little Emma not going to cello practice but turning up in perfect health and condition. Yea....no cop would ever ask questions about that.

And let's not forget.....you and Emma are tracked everywhere you go. Everywhere. She is tracked after she gets out of the car. You should research just how easy it is to find out where she went. Where you went after you dropped her off.

And lastly.....

Hmmm....so out of how many rides taken by minors has this ever been an issue? You virtually never hear of any problems whatsoever. Tell you what...let's expand it.....how many times do you hear of this happening with ANYONE? Again....math is your friend. And I. This case, the math just doesn't wash out.

Fact is, a child is safer in an Uber than most other places they will go, in general, by them selves.

Oh...and one more thing....yea....Uber does have your back. They have the evidence that will exonerate you and they will turn it over to the police. They are watching everything you do. If you believe some on here....they are watching and recording you through your phone.

there is more.....but I will save it for your next fictional twist .



Coachman said:


> Why all the horrific fantasizing about what could happen with a minor? You realize that any male rider you pick up and put in your back seat could strangle you at a moment's notice, right? Your dash cam and pepper spray are not going to stop him.
> 
> The risks are just not there.
> 
> The dangers of picking up drunks are far greater than picking up minors.


Think about what you just said, because it's very interesting.

You have to wonder what has happened to these people that they are terrified about what is a virtual non issue.

In this case, your not getting the whole story. But you are getting a very good look at their character and what they may have done or fantasies about.


----------



## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Coachman said:


> Why all the horrific fantasizing about what could happen with a minor? You realize that any male rider you pick up and put in your back seat could strangle you at a moment's notice, right? Your dash cam and pepper spray are not going to stop him.
> 
> The risks are just not there.
> 
> The dangers of picking up drunks are far greater than picking up minors.


and you can refuse to drive drunks if they are almost incapacitated or you do not feel safe.

and women can strangle and stab you and put a cord around your throat and kill you too.



Red Leader said:


> This is the perfect example of a failed argument trying to live on life support. Simply trying to alter what happened is the sign of desperation. But let's address your silly claims......
> 
> No parent to call? Both father and mother were there on speaker phone. And guess what? They called her also. Funny how they were also at the destination when we arrived.
> 
> ...


You are the one fantasizing and either wanting to only pick up kids or you have several and want Uber drivers to taxi them around.


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Demon said:


> The cops are going to see if it passes the smell test and it may not, but do you really want to have to lose the time to either talk to the cops, or be taken inside to talk to the cops?


I actually said this in an earlier post.

But let's address the second part of your post......

Time? Sure. If something happened to a child I'd want to help. how you do that is up to you. Now, if you are being accused.....

Don't talk to them. You are under no obligation to do so. And you do t have to go to the station to talk to them either. In order for that to happen, they have to arrest you. Think I'm kidding? Let's review a very high profile case.....The Ramsey murder case......

A child, murdered in her home, found in the home, and the parents were requested to co e in and talk to the police. What did they say? Nope. They refused. Cops couldn't make them do it. Now consider this.....

In that case, the overwhelming historical evidence instantly makes family members....parents more than others.....the prime suspects. Friends and other relatives are next in line. Yet....couldn't force them to " go in for questioning." And remember this....

THEY WERE NEVER ARRESTED!!!!!! You have to have evidence to make that arrest. You think you are going to jail over some false claim made by some kid under shady circumstances yet, people found with a child's dead body in their house ..... cops can't do a thing???

You people watch, and believe, way too much of what you see on tv.



Lee239 said:


> and you can refuse to drive drunks if they are almost incapacitated or you do not feel safe.
> 
> and women can strangle and stab you and put a cord around your throat and kill you too.
> 
> You are the one fantasizing and either wanting to only pick up kids or you have several and want Uber drivers to taxi them around.


I pick up or refuse rides to whoever I want. See? That's the thing.....you can simply say......No. That simple. No one is going to force you to drive minors around.

Drive my kid? Sure. No problem. He is 23. God forbid you try and pull something on him.

Anyway...feel free to look at the numbers......they just don't support all the teeth nashing. And remember, as Nancy said.....

JUST SAY NO! If it worries you that much.


----------



## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Red Leader said:


> And remember, as Nancy said.....
> 
> JUST SAY NO! If it worries you that much.


Or just forget about it like Ronnie did.


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Lee239 said:


> Or just forget about it like Ronnie did.


That, right there, is comedy gold.

LOL


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't really see what the big deal is about transporting a teenager.


In other words...you have no clue about risk and liability in 2017? Anything that deals directly with minors is serious business and a BIG responsibility these days.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> I actually said this in an earlier post.
> 
> But let's address the second part of your post......
> 
> ...


The issue I raised is time. Sure you don't have to talk to them, but if a driver is the last one to see a kid, and doesn't want to talk they could always get a warrant to search your car, your house. Is that something you as a driver want to deal with if Junior decides not to go to school after you drop him off there?

In some cases a driver may not be able to tell if they are a minor or not. It would be easy to mistake a 17 year old for a 19 year old.

What numbers are you referring to?

There's also the point of the driver won't know if the minor is actually on the app or not, and if they aren't and there's an accident the driver is on their own.


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Demon said:


> The issue I raised is time. Sure you don't have to talk to them, but if a driver is the last one to see a kid, and doesn't want to talk they could always get a warrant to search your car, your house. Is that something you as a driver want to deal with if Junior decides not to go to school after you drop him off there?
> 
> In some cases a driver may not be able to tell if they are a minor or not. It would be easy to mistake a 17 year old for a 19 year old.
> 
> ...


Sure. Go a head. Get a warrant. Know how long it's going to take them to fabricate enough information to get a warrant? Feel free.

Mistaking a 17 yr old for an 18 or 19 yr old is understandable. But that wasn't the claim. She said a 14 yr old. Like I said....serious problems with that one.

Numbers? The number I'm referring to are simple......the ones where children have been assualted, injured, or otherwise dissapeared by Uber drivers. You will find it has virtually never happened. Think about how many rides Uber gives every day then do the math. It's a fictional problem at best. Drama for the drama starved. And those are the people you need to worry about.

You won't know if the kid is on the app? How did they request you? How did they know your name? How did they know where to be? you do know People order Uber's for others all the time right? And they are covered under the insurance.

You should dig a little deeper into this subject. And don't believe everything a drama queen on the net tells you.

You are far more protected than you think.

Let me ask you this question....have you spoken, at any length, to the people who insure you through Uber? I have.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

If they are service animal teens you can't reject them


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> Sure. Go a head. Get a warrant. Know how long it's going to take them to fabricate enough information to get a warrant? Feel free.
> 
> Mistaking a 17 yr old for an 18 or 19 yr old is understandable. But that wasn't the claim. She said a 14 yr old. Like I said....serious problems with that one.
> 
> ...


What's fabricated? If a driver is the last person to see a missing kid, it's likely they'll be involved in the investigation in some way. We can argue over how much, but I think you'll agree they'll be involved in some way. The question is, who wants to deal with that? Once the ride is over, the tracking ends.

Minors aren't supposed to be in Ubers by themselves, so that could be why you haven't heard anything, and simply because you don't know of it ever happening, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

No, you won't know if the kid is supposed to be on the app or not. Teens request Ubers frequently, feel free to look at any of the threads on this topic before the pilot program was announced. Outside of the pilot program, minors can't be in an Uber unaccompanied. So while people may be able to request rides for other adults, they can't for a minor, and those minors aren't covered by insurance.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Demon said:


> What's fabricated? If a driver is the last person to see a missing kid, it's likely they'll be involved in the investigation in some way. We can argue over how much, but I think you'll agree they'll be involved in some way. The question is, who wants to deal with that? Once the ride is over, the tracking ends.
> 
> Minors aren't supposed to be in Ubers by themselves, so that could be why you haven't heard anything, and simply because you don't know of it ever happening, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
> 
> No, you won't know if the kid is supposed to be on the app or not. Teens request Ubers frequently, feel free to look at any of the threads on this topic before the pilot program was announced. Outside of the pilot program, minors can't be in an Uber unaccompanied. So while people may be able to request rides for other adults, they can't for a minor, and those minors aren't covered by insurance.


My lord.....geez.....

I never said they wouldn't be involved. How much is up to you and what you did. I said the police would have to do some fabrication to get a warrant.....if you have done nothing wrong.

And no...once the ride is over, Uber is still tracking you and the pax. They have already admitted to that practice. And with Uber, they usually admit to the very least they can get away with. Look in to God view and Hevan view. But let's go with your claim.....

You think Uber is the only one tracking you? Your cell phone is a tracking device in and of its self. Always has been. Your provider is tracking you. Have Facebook? Have an iPhone? I could go on, but there is a good place to start.

As for minors not supposed to e in Uber's? Yea...you should look on this very board where drivers admit they transport minors all the time. Now...again...let's go with that.....

It happens all the time. That's why if these incidences and crimes you are so worried about were happening, you would be hearing about them. Yet.....crickets. You just can't make an excuse for it. Anything remotely negative that happens in connection to Uber....and it's on the news. This holds very true for criminal activity of this sort. But....crickets.

Yet....people request rides for kids all the time. Their parents do this constantly in SF. And drivers take them. As for the insurance question....simple.....

Give me the name of the person you talked to at James rivers ins who told you this.



Lee239 said:


> If they are service animal teens you can't reject them


Aren't all kids service animals?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> My lord.....geez.....
> 
> I never said they wouldn't be involved. How much is up to you and what you did. I said the police would have to do some fabrication to get a warrant.....if you have done nothing wrong.
> 
> ...


You totally ignored what I wrote, what needs to get fabricated? Cops tell a judge that there's a missing teen and the driver is the last person to see them. The cops tell the judge that they asked the driver to help out with the investigation and the driver said no way.

You again ignored what i wrote, just because you don't hear about something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I invite you to offer up any proof that you may have that there has never been a problem.

The insurance issue is very simple, show me where in the James River contract it says that non-account holders are covered. I'll wait....


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Demon said:


> You totally ignored what I wrote, what needs to get fabricated? Cops tell a judge that there's a missing teen and the driver is the last person to see them. The cops tell the judge that they asked the driver to help out with the investigation and the driver said no way.
> 
> You again ignored what i wrote, just because you don't hear about something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I invite you to offer up any proof that you may have that there has never been a problem.
> 
> The insurance issue is very simple, show me where in the James River contract it says that non-account holders are covered. I'll wait....


No I didn't. Just because you were the last person to see someone alive, doesn't mean that is enough to get a search warrant. Just because you refuse to talk to the police doesn't give them enough for a search warrant.

Quit taking tv crime shows so seriously.

Now you want me to prove a negative...ok. We are talking about Uber. They have a non fault minor fender bender and it leads on the news. If there were a rash...or even one instance of children being assualted it would not only be all over the news, but politicians would be front and center of tv cameras....especially in SF....railing against Uber. But they aren't.

So...it's not an issue.

As for James rivers insurance...I've talked to them at length about many issues. You haven't even claimed you have spoken with them. So....like I said....who there told you this?

Oh..and non account holders are covered. I bet you can't figure out how or why.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> No I didn't. Just because you were the last person to see someone alive, doesn't mean that is enough to get a search warrant. Just because you refuse to talk to the police doesn't give them enough for a search warrant.
> 
> Quit taking tv crime shows so seriously.
> 
> ...


No, you seem intent on proving a negative, and I'm looking forward to you doing it.

Looks like I'll have to keep waiting for you to prove your insurance claim too.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

So let me understand the current line of discussion in this thread now... I shouldn't accept a ride with a minor because s/he might go missing and I'll be arrested and charged with kidnapping or murder or sexual abuse. That seems to be where we stand.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Demon said:


> No, you seem intent on proving a negative, and I'm looking forward to you doing it.
> 
> Looks like I'll have to keep waiting for you to prove your insurance claim too.


Already have....feel free to try and prove it's an issue. Thing is... you can't. But let's see ya try.



Coachman said:


> So let me understand the current line of discussion in this thread now... I shouldn't accept a ride with a minor because s/he might go mission and I'll be arrested and charged with kidnapping or murder or sexual abuse. That seems to be where we stand.


That's their fear, unfounded as it is. It's the victim mentality hard at work.

They watch way too much tv crime shows.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> So let me understand the current line of discussion in this thread now... I shouldn't accept a ride with a minor because s/he might go missing and I'll be arrested and charged with kidnapping or murder or sexual abuse. That seems to be where we stand.


I wish I could tell you, I'm still trying to figure out how Red Leader got to arrests.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> The fear of teens is based on several ridiculous myths that are adhered to by about 95% of the board:.


I think the purpose of the forum is for people to give their own view on things; perhaps not so much to assign numerical ratings to show how much you approve / don't approve of others' views?

If you want to take children in your vehicle then I don't have a problem with it. Neither do I have a problem with those who decide that taking children isn't for them.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

It's good to have people who don't see a problem with it. If too many opt out, uber would probably force it on everyone.

So the people who don't see a problem with it, get more rides. The ones who opt out, avoid the rides they don't want.

I wouldn't try to completely dismiss someone's fear or risk of this. In reality though, you're probably more at risk of just getting into an accident or altercation of any kind from driving so much. Multiply that risk late at night and with drunk people. Add to that driving in bad areas. Now put minors in the equation. And, don't forget risks in driving other people alone as well.

I do think that there should be both an opt out for those who don't want to do it; and a visible ride indicator that a minor account has been approved for those who do. Otherwise, a driver can't tell if it's a valid minor account or not.

Even if there were no issues about minors, I would still opt out just like I opt out of VIP. From my experience, these are mostly short junk rides.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> Already have....feel free to try and prove it's an issue. Thing is... you can't. But let's see ya try.
> 
> That's their fear, unfounded as it is. It's the victim mentality hard at work.
> 
> They watch way too much tv crime shows.


You haven't proved a negative. No one ever said it was an issue.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Demon said:


> You haven't proved a negative. No one ever said it was an issue.


Yet here you are...all worried about it.



grams777 said:


> It's good to have people who don't see a problem with it. If too many opt out, uber would probably force it on everyone.
> 
> So the people who don't see a problem with it, get more rides. The ones who opt out, avoid the rides they don't want.
> 
> ...


Uber can't force it on you. You are an independent contractor. Even Uber will tell you that you are free to refuse any ride you are not comfortable with.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> No, I can handle a misbehaving teen - but the difference in dealing with a teen vs. a millennial is what I'm talking about.


Both suck


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> Yet here you are...all worried about it.
> 
> Uber can't force it on you. You are an independent contractor. Even Uber will tell you that you are free to refuse any ride you are not comfortable with.


You'll eventually be deactivated for cancels though since there's no indicator on the acceptance screen.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

grams777 said:


> You'll eventually be deactivated for cancels though since there's no indicator on the acceptance screen.


lets go with that....because it has been so beaten to death on this forum......

No indicator on what? On the rating screen it shows both your acceptance and cancellation percentages. So I'm not sure what you are talking about.

As for being deactivated for cancellation? Good luck. It takes a lot for them to cancel you over that. I know drivers with 50% cancellation rates and have no problems. They get hate mail now and then. When that happens, just cancel fewer trips and they send you love letters. And they send you a lot of hate mail before they deactivate you. Rinse and repeat. Now...let's talk about cancellations in the context of this thread.....

Do you really think you are going to get so many teen riders that if you cancel on them all, you will be deactivated? I'd take that bet any day. Unless you live In a town where all the riders are juveniles, it isn't going to happen. Now let's expand it to all rides. If you are cancelling that many rides, to the point that Uber deactivates you, you earned it.

Fact is, every aspect of the drama surrounding this is manufactured by drivers.


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## CatchyMusicLover (Sep 18, 2015)

Lee239 said:


> If they are service animal teens you can't reject them


LOL....but that brings up an interesting question.
A 16 year old could easily have a service animal (apparently this is the general minimum age). Would one be by law required to take them?


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> lets go with that....because it has been so beaten to death on this forum......
> 
> No indicator on what? On the rating screen it shows both your acceptance and cancellation percentages. So I'm not sure what you are talking about.
> 
> ...


Indicator that it's an approved minor request versus an unapproved one. The issue is in general you can be deactivated for canceling rather than not accepting. You are not free to reject whatever rides you want after accepting them.

Fact is, every aspect of the drama surrounding this is manufactured by drivers.​
That is an opinion not a fact. Your opinion differs from some others is the only fact.

I've driven long enough to see fake accusations of all sorts. Add the minor aspect to it for double the trouble. I've been around them enough to know they can lie and throw you under the bus when it suits them.


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## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I think the purpose of the forum is for people to give their own view on things; perhaps not so much to assign numerical ratings to show how much you approve / don't approve of others' views?
> 
> If you want to take children in your vehicle then I don't have a problem with it. Neither do I have a problem with those who decide that taking children isn't for them.


The main problem is Uber refuses to tell the drivers they're transporting an unaccompanied minor -and- they've taken the option to opt out from Seattle drivers.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

grams777 said:


> Indicator that it's an approved minor request versus an unapproved one. The issue is in general you can be deactivated for canceling rather than not accepting. You are not free to reject whatever rides you want after accepting them.
> 
> Fact is, every aspect of the drama surrounding this is manufactured by drivers.​
> That is an opinion not a fact. Your opinion differs from some others is the only fact.
> ...


This simply isn't true. And is proven monthly by the drivers in SF. Feel free to speak with drivers like wanderer, pastrami, aharm, max, and so on. In fact, many of them have posted their numbers here. So, again, you are simply wrong in your assertion. Contextually and otherwise.

As for your assertion that this is an opinion, again, you are simply wrong. If you think you are right, then post up the multitudes of cases and accusation of minors being assaulted by Uber drivers.

Drama for dramas sake created by drama queens.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

CatchyMusicLover said:


> LOL....but that brings up an interesting question.
> A 16 year old could easily have a service animal (apparently this is the general minimum age). Would one be by law required to take them?


I would think if you are allowed to reject them for being minors nothing else would matter, they would have to ride with an adult to bring their dog in that case, but that's just my guess. You are not rejecting them for the service dog so I think it's fine.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

rubidoux said:


> This must be regional bc I didnt see anything about it on my app. But I for one would be relieved if teens could ride legit. Seriously if my kid was trying to get an uber home, Id be happy he had a safe ride. I avoid teens the best I can bc of the insurance issue, but ive picked up girls who looked to be 16 or 17 a couple of times in the middle of the night, one at a hotel 5 am after partying there all night, and I gave them rides. Id rather them not feel stuck in a shitty situation. *At least if they have a teen acct im not putting my neck on the line for it.*


Oh really..?

*Angry Mom:* [@ 5:22 am...just as 16 year old silly Sally climbs through her window] _Where have you been!?_
*Silly Sally:* _Umh, umh...out riding around._
*Angry Mom: *_With who!?_
*Silly Sally: *_Rubidoux (or whatever the Uber dude driver's name was)...
_
Then fill in the blank any number of crazy made up stories that _immature and desperate_ to stay out of trouble teen might make up that includes YOU.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> As for your assertion that this is an opinion, again, you are simply wrong. If you think you are right, then post up the multitudes of cases and accusation of minors being assaulted by Uber drivers.
> 
> Drama for dramas sake created by drama queens.


You mean like these:

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/11/10/uber-driver-accused-rape-teen-girl-orange-county/
SANTA ANA (CBS / AP) - Orange County prosecutors have charged an Uber driver with raping an unconscious 17-year-old girl after picking her up in Huntington Beach.

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/n...cle_64da6676-1340-5cb9-82b1-285a646ad04b.html
A Frederick man who drives for Uber was charged with sexually abusing a 14-year-old girl he picked up, according to county sheriff's deputies.

http://dailyheadlines.com/uber-driver-accused-of-kidnapping/
A Minnesota teen said she just wanted to go her home. Her Uber driver is accused of wanting to go to his. For sex.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Teen-Accuses-Uber-Driver-of-Rape-183599831.html
D.C. police are investigating a sexual assault allegation in Cleveland Park, and according to a neighborhood listserv, the attacker was an Uber car service driver. According to the listserv, a teenage girl was returning home after a late night. The Uber driver pulled into her driveway and after she got out, he waved her back and she complied. That's when he allegedly struck her on the head and raped her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iver-charged-raping-teen-girl-sobs-court.html
Uber driver accused of luring a 16-year-old passenger on Snapchat and then raping her sobs and faints in court
Darnell Booth, 34, is accused of raping a teen girl that he met through his job as an Uber driver

http://observer.com/2016/04/a-hawaii-uber-driver-has-been-charged-with-raping-a-teenager/
A 24-year-old Hawaii Uber driver was charged with sexual assault in the first degree yesterday morning. His accuser, a 16-year-old from Makiki, says that after leaving a local mall and dropping off her friends first, the driver, named Luke Wadahara, started making wrong turns, eventually pulling over and attacking her.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/14/uber-driver-rape-arrest_n_2876867.html
A woman's teen-age daughter used Uber car serve to return to her home last night after a late evening. The car drove up the family's driveway around 3:30 AM. The girl walked to the door but the driver called her back. When she went back, the driver struck her on the head and raped her.

Now give it some time and apply it on a wider scale after the minor program rolls out and you get something like this:

http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/rideshare-incidents


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

When Uber starts getting sued they will realize that picking up unaccompanied minors is a huge liability against the minimal gain.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Lee239 said:


> When Uber starts getting sued they will realize that picking up unaccompanied minors is a huge liability against the minimal gain.


That's probably why they're collecting the extra booking fee. Uber doesn't really seem to care who gets hurt. It's just a numbers game. If they can make more money after subtracting lawsuits, they'll consider it a gain. It doesn't matter to them if drivers or passengers lives get ruined in the process.


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

The only way Uber loses is if drivers are smarter and ethical than they are and scuttles half-brained floaters like this. And, this thread proves that some drivers will leap at the chance to expose themselves to fruitless risk.

People will continue to reward their worst ideas with faithful execution.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

grams777 said:


> Any number of crimes dealing with minors. They say he touched me or kissed me. Now what do you do?
> 
> Now even being accused of anything having to do with a minor makes you a target in any jail or prison. Guilt, innocence, or the law are irrelevant at that point. You're the lowest of the low and branded as a chomo (child molestor). They can even come after you in hours right after jail intake in some cases.
> 
> ...


And this is why/how Mods are made Mods...good job. Please, all Trolls and Know-it-alls, go troll and spew on another thread....this one is important. We need level heads and cool minds.



ABC123DEF said:


> In other words...you have no clue about risk and liability in 2017? Anything that deals directly with minors is serious business and a BIG responsibility these days.


Umh....ya'all need to look at the bigger 'picture' with this guy...lol.












grams777 said:


> You mean like these:
> 
> http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/11/10/uber-driver-accused-rape-teen-girl-orange-county/
> SANTA ANA (CBS / AP) - Orange County prosecutors have charged an Uber driver with raping an unconscious 17-year-old girl after picking her up in Huntington Beach.
> ...


No, Red Leader did not mean like _those..._Nor did he mean like the actual response drivininsac received from Uber about checking ID's...

Good Formula for spotting a Troll or Shill on here:

They have less Likes Received than Messages posted*
They use the phrase "you people."
Was that a *Mic Drop* I heard....?

*Not exactly scientific...more my IMHO.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Redleader can go on rolling with the teens and shilling for Travis. This is still America. 

But I wonder, in all his intimate conversations with James River, did he actually get to read the insurance contract provided to Uber? 

I wonder, in all his intimate conversations with James River did they discuss Heinrich's Theory of Accident Causation?

I wonder, in all his intimate conversations with James River did they discuss the revised premium rate factors in the Mom's Taxi test markets? (Or related to this, the underwriting requirements?)


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## occupant (Jul 7, 2015)

I have a fifteen year old stepson with male pattern baldness and a full beard. He looks older than I do. We monetize this by having him do mystery shops for movie theaters. No trouble getting into R rated movies. Pays $75 a pop. Because they never think to card him. I keep ten for gas money and he keeps the rest.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

grams777 said:


> You mean like these:
> 
> http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/11/10/uber-driver-accused-rape-teen-girl-orange-county/
> SANTA ANA (CBS / AP) - Orange County prosecutors have charged an Uber driver with raping an unconscious 17-year-old girl after picking her up in Huntington Beach.
> ...


That's all you could come up with? Now do the math on how many rides Uber give in just one day. You aren't even at the 1/4 % mark.

So far, you are proving my point.



2Peaks said:


> Redleader can go on rolling with the teens and shilling for Travis. This is still America.
> 
> But I wonder, in all his intimate conversations with James River, did he actually get to read the insurance contract provided to Uber?
> 
> ...


Ahh..there's that word...schilling..the go to word for those with no real argument...but again you prove my point about this being a topic for drama queens.

Fact is...I gave you the solution to your paranoia a long time a go.....it's easy....

Just say no. You don't have to take them. That easy.


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## JJS (Jan 5, 2016)

No sense in having an opt out when you are not going to be in Seattle much longer anyway.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> The main problem is Uber refuses to tell the drivers they're transporting an unaccompanied minor -and- they've taken the option to opt out from Seattle drivers.


You have the option on every ride to cancel and drive off if you don't approve of the rider for any reason.



grams777 said:


> That's probably why they're collecting the extra booking fee. Uber doesn't really seem to care who gets hurt. It's just a numbers game. If they can make more money after subtracting lawsuits, they'll consider it a gain. It doesn't matter to them if drivers or passengers lives get ruined in the process.


Uber knows minors have been riding all along. They've probably just now figured it will result in fewer lawsuits and more profits to make them authorized rather than unauthorized.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Red Leader said:


> That's all you could come up with? Now do the math on how many rides Uber give in just one day. You aren't even at the 1/4 % mark.
> 
> So far, you are proving my point.
> 
> ...


Ahh..there's that word...drama queen..the go to word for those with no real argument...but again you prove my point about this being a topic for Uber Schills.

But yes, I agree. You can be a Soccer Mom, and us big dogs will get the real rides. I think it's cool. Until Uber tries to make it Mandatory, which really is why the Seattle Driver started this thread.

Now, what are the answers to my questions about all those conversations with James River?



Coachman said:


> You have the option on every ride to cancel and drive off if you don't approve of the rider for any reason.
> .


Coachman, Having the option is fine, However, how much time is wasted driving there, waiting, then having to worry about the cancel rate? What price do YOU place on missed opportunity for a Unicorn? Or even a modest real ride? A measly $3 cancel fee? WooHoo!


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

2Peaks said:


> Ahh..there's that word...drama queen..the go to word for those with no real argument...but again you prove my point about this being a topic for Uber Schills.
> 
> But yes, I agree. You can be a Soccer Mom, and us big dogs will get the real rides. I think it's cool. Until Uber tries to make it Mandatory, which really is why the Seattle Driver started this thread.
> 
> ...


No Cancelation Fee. Passenger Showed....


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## crazyb (Feb 16, 2015)

I dont mind giving safe rides to teens however I don't appreciate them treating me like their servant. I would like Uber to specify that they sit in the back. I don't want to be accused falsly of anything inappropriate. A limit of 2 teens. There needs to be some kind of safety rules to be in place. A male driver taking a young teen girl is very risky. All she has to do is accuse the driver of anything. Some Kids just think it so funny to ruin someone's life.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

crazyb said:


> I dont mind giving safe rides to teens however I don't appreciate them treating me like their servant. I would like Uber to specify that they sit in the back. I don't want to be accused falsly of anything inappropriate. A limit of 2 teens. There needs to be some kind of safety rules to be in place. A male driver taking a young teen girl is very risky. All she has to do is accuse the driver of anything. Some Kids just think it so funny to ruin someone's life.


Thus OP suggests best option is the chance to OPT out...


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> Ahh..there's that word...drama queen..the go to word for those with no real argument...but again you prove my point about this being a topic for Uber Schills.
> 
> But yes, I agree. You can be a Soccer Mom, and us big dogs will get the real rides. I think it's cool. Until Uber tries to make it Mandatory, which really is why the Seattle Driver started this thread.
> 
> ...


Ahh...how original...a drama queen is so butt hurt over his lack of ability to carry his case.....that he must copy a post from his superiors.

Well done subordinate, well done.

Next time you are in the Bay Area, let us know. There are 15 or 20 of us who can show you how to do this job properly.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

crazyb said:


> I dont mind giving safe rides to teens however I don't appreciate them treating me like their servant. I would like Uber to specify that they sit in the back. I don't want to be accused falsly of anything inappropriate. A limit of 2 teens. There needs to be some kind of safety rules to be in place. A male driver taking a young teen girl is very risky. All she has to do is accuse the driver of anything. Some Kids just think it so funny to ruin someone's life.


There are adult women who will do the same thing, it's a risk we're always taking. Only difference is police are pretty smart about those things, a woman who does that probably has a history and they will get the truth out of her. An underage girl might not have that history and they don't know what to believe. A kid also has more motivation to lie if they are caught by their parents.

All I can recommend is not do anything to make yourself seem like an easy target for those accusations. Any kind of sexual talk, drug talk, anything lowlife and someone inclined to do that is going to think you're a jackass with a history yourself and an easy person to set up. You want to present yourself as a person the police are going to believe before your accuser.

I'm not concerned so much about an allegation of impropriety as a kid ending up someplace they weren't supposed to go, getting hurt or killed, then I'm blamed for bringing them there.


----------



## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Red Leader said:


> Ahh...how original...a drama queen is so butt hurt over his lack of ability to carry his case.....that he must copy a post from his superiors.
> 
> Well done subordinate, well done.
> 
> Next time you are in the Bay Area, let us know. There are 15 or 20 of us who can show you how to do this job properly.


So, did you or did you not discuss the rating factors with James River? Did you or did you not discuss any tighter underwriting standards in the Mom's Taxi test markets? Have you, or have you not read the insurance contract that Uber has?

Don't worry, I won't be in Bay Area anytime soon. Used to live up there. If I want to visit an armpit again I'll raise my right arm. 
And I'm sure a Star Wars junkie can teach me something. Look me up when you come down for Comic Con.


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> So, did you or did you not discuss the rating factors with James River? Did you or did you not discuss any tighter underwriting standards in the Mom's Taxi test markets? Have you, or have you not read the insurance contract that Uber has?
> 
> Don't worry, I won't be in Bay Area anytime soon. Used to live up there. If I want to visit an armpit again I'll raise my right arm.


Why would I discuss anything about another business with Rivers? I don't work for them. But it's a nice try at deflection from your drama problems.

I know it drives you nuts, but this is simply an non issue. But, if you think you have the numbers, post them up. I'd be happy to take a look at them. A mod tried this and failed miserably. Embarrassingly actually.

Tell you what....I will handicap you.... post the numbers world wide and use only the ride count in America as the comparison. You will be sadly disappointed. But let's see what you come up with.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

2Peaks said:


> Coachman, Having the option is fine, However, how much time is wasted driving there, waiting, then having to worry about the cancel rate? What price do YOU place on missed opportunity for a Unicorn? Or even a modest real ride? A measly $3 cancel fee? WooHoo!


Well I don't make a habit of rejecting riders based on their age, race, sex or religion. The only rider I've ever rejected in over 1,000 rides was a girl too drunk to stand up.


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Well I don't make a habit of rejecting riders based on their age, race, sex or religion. The only rider I've ever rejected in over 1,000 rides was a girl too drunk to stand up.


Here is what they do t understand about the opt out issue.....

It isn't relevant. Uber has already been down this road.....

Uber gave the option to opt out of pool. So many did it that Uber arbitrarially opted them back in. When they complained, Uber opted them out for a month, then back in. All Uber needs do is what they do now....

You go to sign on and are hit with a new rules. Dont agree? No access to the platform. This has been a major issue with Uber since they started X service.

Oh...and the people who opted out of pool? Many of them requested to get pool rides again so they could meet bonus requirements. Guess taking pool rides wasn't that much of an issue after all.


----------



## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Red Leader said:


> Why would I discuss anything about another business with Rivers? I don't work for them. But it's a nice try at deflection from your drama problems.
> 
> I know it drives you nuts, but this is simply an non issue. But, if you think you have the numbers, post them up. I'd be happy to take a look at them. A mod tried this and failed miserably. Embarrassingly actually.
> 
> Tell you what....I will handicap you.... post the numbers world wide and use only the ride count in America as the comparison. You will be sadly disappointed. But let's see what you come up with.


Look Star Wars junkie, you are the one throwing all your conversations with James Rivers around and claiming you are a know-it-all because of it. So give them a call, and have them write you a letter detailing the rating factors that will apply for the Mom's Taxi Program.

If the rates are the same as driving a legit 35 year old, and there is no additional underwriting, then they do not feel there is an increase in risk. Of course, when you look at the "guidelines", you already know they recognize the increase in risk.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> Look Star Wars junkie, you are the one throwing all your conversations with James Rivers around and claiming you are a know-it-all because of it. So give them a call, and have them write you a letter detailing the rating factors that will apply for the Mom's Taxi Program.
> 
> If the rates are the same as driving a legit 35 year old, and there is no additional underwriting, then they do not feel there is an increase in risk. Of course, when you look at the "guidelines", you already know they recognize the increase in risk.


So...no answer huh? That is typical. Let me know when you get some kind of evidence that this issue is any sort of a problem. So far, no one out side the drama team sees it as such.

But that's the difference between people who know how to do this job, and those who don't.


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## BAKAD (Feb 22, 2016)

Think about it parents are letting a total stranger drive their kids? Does that make you wonder? Uber needs a big insurance umbrella to cover the driver, because if there is an accident the parents are going to file lawsuits.

Also

Unless you have a dash cam in the car to document everything a "he said, she said" situation could happen if the teen accuses the driver of anything. The driver is toast. Sorry most teens are great, but some of their minds are still mush and can do anything for fun or any other reasons that will kill a driver's reputation and livelihood.

While there is a market there for teens, Uber is not going to do the right things to address it

Drivers that have been FBI background checked to drive teens 
 These drivers are paid more for teen rides

Uber provides or offer deep discounts for web cams 
Uber provides a legal team to defend any drivers wrongly accused 
Solid insurance coverage


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

BAKAD said:


> ...Drivers that have been FBI background checked to drive teens


I don't know about the policies in other markets, but you and I have most certainly had FBI background checks.

And local county criminal history checks. And Florida Criminal History. And Florida Sexual Predator list. And Department of Homeland Security Watch List.

There is no specific FBI check for suitability to interact with teenagers -- or anyone else for that matter. But we've certainly had pretty thorough criminal background scrutiny.

Your other suggestions of things for Uber to do are good, but not happening. They would cost Uber money.


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## BAKAD (Feb 22, 2016)

JimKE said:


> I don't know about the policies in other markets, but you and I have most certainly had FBI background checks.
> 
> And local county criminal history checks. And Florida Criminal History. And Florida Sexual Predator list. And Department of Homeland Security Watch List.
> 
> ...


Yes, all of this is what I had in mind, I just had it under FBI check as a catch all. But Uber is not going to do it until a major disaster occurs with a bunch of kids unfortunately with the assorted bad press.

Knowing this company is so desperate for profit without simply raising prices they are trying everything to make a buck without thoroughly thinking through the consequences.


----------



## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Look, folks, teens pay with the same currency that adults do, so why should we care how old they are. Install a dual-channel dashcam and you're good to go. I live close to a boarding school, so I used to get a lot of pings from kids going to dinner, shopping, entertainment, dates, etc. The school actually encouraged parents to set up Uber accounts so their kids could get around. Those were some of my favorite paxs. They were always polite, sober, bathed, respectful, and most of them understand the art of tipping. In my case, it would have been foolish not to accept these paxs.


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## DocT (Jul 16, 2015)

I've had background checks because of my day job. Even my landlord was questioned [by the U.S. Government] before I could get clearance to work on a particular project.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

BAKAD said:


> Yes, all of this is what I had in mind, I just had it under FBI check as a catch all. But Uber is not going to do it until a major disaster occurs with a bunch of kids unfortunately with the assorted bad press.


The list I posted is EXACTLY the five different backgrounds Checkr did on me when I applied for Uber in the same market where you drive. Did you *not* have them?

Mine was easy and quick because I've lived in Miami for ages and in the same house for the last 18 years, but with today's technology, I'd think Uber could do them on anyone pretty inexpensively.

I am under the impression that they do all of that on EVERY single applicant. If they don't, they're stupid and negligent, IMHO.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

JimKE said:


> The list I posted is EXACTLY the five different backgrounds Checkr did on me when I applied for Uber in the same market where you drive. Did you *not* have them?


Of course he had them. But on a board where everybody seems to look for reasons not to drive teens, failure to background check drivers seems like another handy excuse.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Look, folks, teens pay with the same currency that adults do, so why should we care how old they are. Install a dual-channel dashcam and you're good to go. I live close to a boarding school, so I used to get a lot of pings from kids going to dinner, shopping, entertainment, dates, etc. The school actually encouraged parents to set up Uber accounts so their kids could get around. Those were some of my favorite paxs. They were always polite, sober, bathed, respectful, and most of them understand the art of tipping. In my case, it would have been foolish not to accept these paxs.


Except for the tipping part, I agree. I've never been tipped by a teenager.

I frequently get high school kids going to school as pax, but so far they've all been Seniors who had the good sense to tell me they are 18. There are two young men, in particular, who I drive regularly. One or the other is frequently my first ride of the day, right after I drop my own daughter off at her high school.

My only objection to the Teen program would be if they dumped it on drivers without notification and an opt-out. Apparently, it's been shown that the opt-out question is a non-issue. So if it's an optional thing, I would have no problem with it.

In fact, I'd rather have a specific type of account where the parent is a) notified that I'm driving their child, b) knows where I picked them up, and where I'm dropping them off, and c) can follow my route in real time on their app. That's exactly what Uber is offering parents, and I think the idea is a good one.

I'd much rather drive a kid in that situation than drive one who has their own credit card and their own account that the parent has little or no access to, and no control over. Lots of kids have their own credit cards these days...my 15 y/o has had for a year.

The challenge for Uber, IMHO, will be to ensure the *integrity* of these parental accounts. Kids are much more tech-savvy than their parents, and it won't be a week before some high schooler develops a hack to get "parental" accounts.



Coachman said:


> Of course he had them. But on a board where everybody seems to look for reasons not to drive teens, failure to background check drivers seems like another handy excuse.


I don't know what background they had. They've been driving for a lot longer than I have.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

JimKE said:


> I don't know what background they had. They've been driving for a lot longer than I have.


I've been driving less than two years and my background check has already been updated once.


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

Uber doesn't want us to know pax identities, but the driver contract very clearly says that Uber is a technology company and not a transportation company. Pax enter into a direct agreement with the driver. Therefore I should have the legal right to verify an identity and age, of course Uber will disagree and deactivate me for violating their policies - with Uber you're guilty until proven innocent.

There is also the legal question of minors not being allowed to enter into a legal contract - although the whole parental consent piece is an interesting question. How in the world is Uber verifying that a teen signing up for a pax account has gotten their actual parent to consent? I work in IT - identity fraud is pretty easy online especially when it's a family member 

I'm glad my market isn't used for pilot programs. There's just far too many risks and potential problems. And Uber is highly unlikely to give us any legally-binding advice on how to handle these situations:

*Increased vandalism*. Yeah, we have that risk already, but kids are an increased risk. Insurance works by higher premiums for higher risk. Am I getting paid more for higher risk passengers? I don't think so. At least during the 2am bar surge I'm getting a surge rate for dealing with the higher risk of drunk college kids who can't hold their liquor
*Kid using a "friend's account because my parents wouldn't agree"* - how do you know the approved teen is in your car if you can't check ID? Now you've got a parent calling asking why they're getting charged for a ride that their kid isn't actually in, on top of hauling an unapproved minor.
*Hauling multiple kids in addition to the account holder without parental consent. *If I can't get 5 college kids to figure out who gets left behind when they order an UberX instead of XL, do you really think 4 middle-schoolers are going to not waste 10 minutes of my time when they all try to get in the car and I'm only allowed to take the account-holder?
*parents calling mid-ride because the kid changed their destination from grandma's house to the mall/boyfriend's house/local drug dealer *- there's a practically guaranteed 1* rating and now a pissed off kid who is going to grandma's after all because the parent ordered you to... suppose now the kid wants let out where they're at or cancels mid-ride? And if they've already changed the destination, is the parent's app going to change it back to grandma's house so I have directions to get there? Or is Uber going to not allow a kid to change destination mid-ride, but what if the parent wants them to change destinations?
*parents calling mid-ride because their kid is using uber to skip school - *parent says take kid back to school. Assuming kid doesn't cancel trip and insist on being let out parent wants you to walk them into the vice principal's office to make sure they're back. That ain't happening....
*ride requests after city curfew - *"my mom said it was ok"
*intoxicated 17 year olds*
While I'm all for kids having a safe way home, this just doesn't seem to be a good idea and isn't fully vetted. I've done many trips taking a parent somewhere to pick up their kid and then back home. Much more acceptable to me.

Social "doing the right thing" and legal "CYA" are two very separate things with a wide grey area. There are tons of what-ifs on this forum about how to handle grey situations from "cancel and leave" to "give the ride" to "call the cops and wait."


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Dback2004 said:


> Uber doesn't want us to know pax identities, but the driver contract very clearly says that Uber is a technology company and not a transportation company. Pax enter into a direct agreement with the driver. Therefore I should have the legal right to verify an identity and age, of course Uber will disagree and deactivate me for violating their policies - with Uber you're guilty until proven innocent.
> 
> There is also the legal question of minors not being allowed to enter into a legal contract - although the whole parental consent piece is an interesting question. How in the world is Uber verifying that a teen signing up for a pax account has gotten their actual parent to consent? I work in IT - identity fraud is pretty easy online especially when it's a family member
> 
> ...


ALL of which can, and should, be prevented by simply opting out if you don't want to drive those pax.


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

JimKE said:


> ALL of which can, and should, be prevented by simply opting out if you don't want to drive those pax.


Assuming they honor the opt-out system. From what I've been reading about Pool as well as XL/Select/Black drivers in regards to X it seems Uber offers opt-out during initial piloting/testing but once they go mainstream the opt-out is gone.


----------



## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

W


Red Leader said:


> So...no answer huh? That is typical. Let me know when you get some kind of evidence that this issue is any sort of a problem. So far, no one out side the drama team sees it as such.
> 
> But that's the difference between people who know how to do this job, and those who don't.


WTF does knowing how to do this job have to do with the discussion?

Again, you said you had all the contact with James Rivers. Now put up or shut up. Do the experts at setting a premium to match the exposure feel there is no increase in exposure? You get me something in writing and I'll go watch Star Wars with you.

Again: if Uber gives and keeps an Opt-Out function, I have no issue. 
Again: For those that really want to be a Mom's Taxi, so long as I can stay Opt Out there will be no objection from me. Please drive all the 13 year olds you can, while you are

"Sitting on a park bench,
Eyeing little girls with bad intent"...


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Look, folks, teens pay with the same currency that adults do, so why should we care how old they are. Install a dual-channel dashcam and you're good to go. I live close to a boarding school, so I used to get a lot of pings from kids going to dinner, shopping, entertainment, dates, etc. The school actually encouraged parents to set up Uber accounts so their kids could get around. Those were some of my favorite paxs. They were always polite, sober, bathed, respectful, and most of them understand the art of tipping. In my case, it would have been foolish not to accept these paxs.


All great points. The problem someone may one day run into is (unless they're in the pilot program) that there may be some kind of unfortunate event that happens when an unaccompanied teen is in the car, and in that situation a driver would be completely on their own with no support from Uber.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> All great points. The problem someone may one day run into is (unless they're in the pilot program) that there may be some kind of unfortunate event that happens when an unaccompanied teen is in the car, and* in that situation a driver would be completely on their own with no support from Uber*.


Where did you get this information?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Where did you get this information?


Insurance companies tend not to cover people not on the policy. If you have information proving otherwise I would gladly rescind my comment.


----------



## LevittownPa (Nov 15, 2016)

rubidoux said:


> This must be regional bc I didnt see anything about it on my app. But I for one would be relieved if teens could ride legit. Seriously if my kid was trying to get an uber home, Id be happy he had a safe ride. I avoid teens the best I can bc of the insurance issue, but ive picked up girls who looked to be 16 or 17 a couple of times in the middle of the night, one at a hotel 5 am after partying there all night, and I gave them rides. Id rather them not feel stuck in a shitty situation. At least if they have a teen acct im not putting my neck on the line for it.


 Haven't seen anything in Philly either, but might have missed it


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> W
> 
> WTF does knowing how to do this job have to do with the discussion?
> 
> ...


Still trying to deflect from your non argument? Just post the numbers.....you can prove me wrong by simply posting the numbers.

Relax brother, being wrong is killing ya.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Insurance companies tend not to cover people not on the policy. If you have information proving otherwise I would gladly rescind my comment.


The policy says it covers the driver and the passengers while you're on an Uber trip. Have you read it?


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Coachman said:


> The policy says it covers the driver and the passengers while you're on an Uber trip. Have you read it?


No, they have not read it. Nor have they spoken with the carrier concerning any issues.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> The policy says it covers the driver and the passengers while you're on an Uber trip. Have you read it?


Just for fun can you link it here?
Unaccompanied minors (outside of the pilot) are not passengers.



Red Leader said:


> No, they have not read it. Nor have they spoken with the carrier concerning any issues.


So still no link to back up any of your claims?


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Unaccompanied minors (outside of the pilot) are not passengers.


I've accepted an Uber request. I've picked up the rider. I'm on an Uber trip. I have a trip ID#. I have a waybill. But the person riding in my car is not an Uber passenger? Show me.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> I've accepted an Uber request. I've picked up the rider. I'm on an Uber trip. I have a trip ID#. I have a waybill. But the person riding in my car is not an Uber passenger? Show me.


Wow, still no link. 
It's on you to show the person in the car is an Uber account holder. Just how exactly do you know they are?


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Wow, still no link.
> It's on you to show the person in the car is an Uber account holder. Just how exactly do you know they are?


You can do your own homework to find the Uber insurance policy. I've already seen it. And I guarantee you it says nothing about unaccompanied minors, or riders that are the account holder, or riders who are in compliance with the TOS.

But curious, when you pick up any random pax, how do you verify that they're in compliance with the TOS?


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Children...please. Really!


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> You can do your own homework to find the Uber insurance policy. I've already seen it. And I guarantee you it says nothing about unaccompanied minors, or riders that are the account holder, or riders who are in compliance with the TOS.
> 
> But curious, when you pick up any random pax, how do you verify that they're in compliance with the TOS?


I've done my homework. You made a claim and it turns out you haven't done the work to back up the claim. If you've seen it, show us the link, I'm asserting that you haven't, which is why you still haven't provided a link or cite.

What I do or don't do doesn't change the contract or the insurance.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> I've done my homework. You made a claim and it turns out you haven't done the work to back up the claim. If you've seen it, show us the link, I'm asserting that you haven't, which is why you still haven't provided a link or cite.
> 
> What I do or don't do doesn't change the contract or the insurance.


So now I'm the one who has a claim to prove?

Let's look at it this way... prove to me that your personal insurance policy covers minor passengers. How would you go about doing that?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> So now I'm the one who has a claim to prove?
> 
> Let's look at it this way... prove to me that your personal insurance policy covers minor passengers. How would you go about doing that?


My personal policy has nothing to do with Uber's policy & contract.

You made a claim, it's up to you to back it up.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> My personal policy has nothing to do with Uber's policy & contract.
> 
> You made a claim, it's up to you to back it up.


What do you want exactly? A copy of the insurance policy? What do you think it's going to say?


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> What do you want exactly. A copy of the insurance policy? What do you think it's going to say?


Doesn't matter what I think. You claimed the policy covers people not on the policy. I'm asking you to prove that.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Here's one for you. You pick up a passenger and begin the trip. You're in an accident and total your car. The police are called and in the course of the investigation they discover your passenger was carrying drugs. Are you covered by Uber's insurance?



Demon said:


> Doesn't matter what I think. You claimed the policy covers people not on the policy. I'm asking you to prove that.


Well technically the policy "covers" the insured... which are Uber and the driver who is acting as an Uber agent. Nobody else is named. Your passenger is not insured. You have coverage for any liability for injury or damage to people and property in a covered accident.

Whether you're at fault for injuring your passenger, a passenger in another vehicle, or a pedestrian, the policy covers your liability.

So the only question is, are you on an Uber trip while transporting a minor? You answered a request through the app, you picked up the rider, you began the trip, you have a trip ID#, a waybill, and an Insurance Certificate #. And most important, Uber was getting paid for the ride. So you're on an Uber trip.

Show me where, anywhere, Uber or their insurance says different.



Demon said:


> Insurance companies tend not to cover people not on the policy. If you have information proving otherwise I would gladly rescind my comment.


BTW, this exchange began here with you making the original claim that insurance companies tend not to cover people not on the policy.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Here's one for you. You pick up a passenger and begin the trip. You're in an accident and total your car. The police are called and in the course of the investigation they discover your passenger was carrying drugs. Are you covered by Uber's insurance?
> 
> Well technically the policy "covers" the insured... which are Uber and the driver who is acting as an Uber agent. Nobody else is named. Your passenger is not insured. You have coverage for any liability for injury or damage to people and property in a covered accident.
> 
> ...


Passengers are covered.

"Liability coverage is up to $1 million per incident for bodily injury or property damage *to passengers* or any other third parties, such as pedestrians, other vehicles, buildings, etc. The policy also covers bodily injury caused by uninsured and underinsured motorists up to $1 million/incident, so that no matter who is at fault, coverage is in place."

https://newsroom.uber.com/56463/


----------



## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Exclusions can be found in many places within an insurance contract.

The Star Wars groupie has the inside information on James Rivers issues but won't be bothered.



Red Leader said:


> Still trying to deflect from your non argument? Just post the numbers.....you can prove me wrong by simply posting the numbers.
> 
> Relax brother, being wrong is killing ya.


Still avoiding the crux of my request.

There's no deflection because your request has nothing to do with my argument. I've only asked you to show your superior knowledge of the James River product and then we can end the discussion.

Look me up when you come down to Comic Con with your other Star Wars hroupies. I'll buy you a commemerative license plate holder that says "Mom's Taxi".


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Passengers are covered.
> 
> "Liability coverage is up to $1 million per incident for bodily injury or property damage *to passengers* or any other third parties, such as pedestrians, other vehicles, buildings, etc. The policy also covers bodily injury caused by uninsured and underinsured motorists up to $1 million/incident, so that no matter who is at fault, coverage is in place."
> 
> https://newsroom.uber.com/56463/


You're misreading that. Passengers are not "covered." Uber and the driver are covered with liability insurance for "damage to passengers" or anyone or anything else. Why would a passenger or a building need liability coverage?


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Demon said:


> Just for fun can you link it here?
> Unaccompanied minors (outside of the pilot) are not passengers.
> 
> So still no link to back up any of your claims?


You have it right on your phone and you agreed to it. Now, I know you want to deflect from your failure....but ....you still haven't provided any substance that this has ever been a problem.



2Peaks said:


> Exclusions can be found in many places within an insurance contract.
> 
> The Star Wars groupie has the inside information on James Rivers issues but won't be bothered.
> 
> ...


Dont you wish.....your deflection is poorly planned.

The context of this issue has been the dangers involved. Yet, to date, it's been proven this isn't an issue. Even a mod tried and failed....quite badly....to show this is an issue.

So...post'em up. Let's see those numbers. Or keep deflecting and admitting defeat. It's your choice.

Actually, it's not your choice. There are no number you can produce that shows this is any sort of problem.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> You're misreading that. Passengers are not "covered." Uber and the driver are covered with liability insurance for "damage to passengers" or anyone or anything else. Why would a passenger or a building need liability coverage?


Correct, the passengers are covered. They would need to be covered because both could be damaged.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Correct, the passengers are covered. They would need to be covered because both could be damaged.


Okay I won't argue the point. Now show me anywhere where Uber says a minor passenger is not covered.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Okay I won't argue the point. Now show me anywhere where Uber says a minor passenger is not covered.


Minors can't be account holders so they aren't covered.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Don't you just love the Ignore feature on this forum?


----------



## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

Instead of arguing back and forth can we just agree...

Don't want to drive the minors? Don't. You're an IC and refusing a job.

Want to drive the minors in the pilot cities? Drive them. 

Not that hard.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Minors can't be account holders so they aren't covered.


But a pedestrian isn't an account holder. And the pedestrian is covered.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> But a pedestrian isn't an account holder. And the pedestrian is covered.


If they are hit by an Uber driver, James River will pay them because the Uber driver is at fault.



drivininsac said:


> Instead of arguing back and forth can we just agree...
> 
> Don't want to drive the minors? Don't. You're an IC and refusing a job.
> 
> ...


That's a valid point, but other people have raised the point that in some cases a driver may not know if they're transporting a minor because Uber doesn't tell you.


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## Uber315 (Apr 11, 2016)

I was requested to a middle school today and I decided to call rider to confirm pickup location it was a males name . Upon answering he stated that it was for his daughter . So I asked him how old she was . He stated 16 and I let him know it is not allowed under Uber's terms of service for unaccompanied minors to ride alone. So I canceled ride ! I then went to see the destination and it was to the local police headquarters . So either a cop was asking for a ride for his daughter or they are conducting sting operations. Either way I don't mess with unaccompanied minors . We just don't know who is requesting the ride for these kids and they can be put in harms way.


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## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

Demon said:


> If they are hit by an Uber driver, James River will pay them because the Uber driver is at fault.
> 
> That's a valid point, but other people have raised the point that in some cases a driver may not know if they're transporting a minor because Uber doesn't tell you.


If you don't know, ask for identification. I already established earlier in this thread that Uber allows you to ask for identification.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> If they are hit by an Uber driver, James River will pay them because the Uber driver is at fault.


When the unaccompanied minor is hurt, isn't the Uber driver at fault?


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Uber315 said:


> I was requested to a middle school today and I decided to call rider to confirm pickup location it was a males name . Upon answering he stated that it was for his daughter . So I asked him how old she was . He stated 16 and I let him know it is not allowed under Uber's terms of service for unaccompanied minors to ride alone. So I canceled ride ! I then went to see the destination and it was to the local police headquarters . So either a cop was asking for a ride for his daughter or they are conducting sting operations. Either way I don't mess with unaccompanied minors . We just don't know who is requesting the ride for these kids and they can be put in harms way.


Interesting...which department?


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## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

drivininsac said:


> Instead of arguing back and forth can we just agree...
> 
> Don't want to drive the minors? Don't. You're an IC and refusing a job.
> 
> ...


Issue is, they're already removed the option to easily opt out - now it requires a trek down to the hub (1/2 hr drive outside affected city) to request to opt out.

They used to let drivers opt out of Pool, not anymore... will they do the same thing here?

Basis of the thread - Uber removed the opt out option and they are NOT identifying those rides that are teen rides.


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## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> Issue is, they're already removed the option to easily opt out - now it requires a trek down to the hub (1/2 hr drive outside affected city) to request to opt out.
> 
> They used to let drivers opt out of Pool, not anymore... will they do the same thing here?
> 
> Basis of the thread - Uber removed the opt out option and they are NOT identifying those rides that are teen rides.


Did they also change the TOS? If they didn't then refuse the ride.

Remember everyone, you are not their employee, it's your car. Unless State or Federal law say you MUST take the passenger, you don't have to!


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> When the unaccompanied minor is hurt, isn't the Uber driver at fault?


The driver is just a driver. It's not an Uber ride.



drivininsac said:


> Did they also change the TOS? If they didn't then refuse the ride.
> 
> Remember everyone, you are not their employee, it's your car. Unless State or Federal law say you MUST take the passenger, you don't have to!


You can certainly refuse some rides under the TOS, but not until you arrive at pick up. That means a waste of time and miles.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> The driver is just a driver. It's not an Uber ride.


When you put a passenger in your back seat and start the trip on the Uber app, how do you know when you're on an Uber ride and when you're not?


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

I have not driven in a year, but when I pulled up on a group of teens, I pulled away. 
Not my problem, and it is my car. 

One teen on the way home from school was cool. 
No more than one at a time for me.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> When you put a passenger in your back seat and start the trip on the Uber app, how do you know when you're on an Uber ride and when you're not?


We already established that non-account holders are not passengers.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

grams777 said:


> Any number of crimes dealing with minors. They say he touched me or kissed me. Now what do you do?
> 
> Now even being accused of anything having to do with a minor makes you a target in any jail or prison. Guilt, innocence, or the law are irrelevant at that point. You're the lowest of the low and branded as a chomo (child molestor). They can even come after you in hours right after jail intake in some cases.
> 
> ...


 These rideshare companies have a well known reputation for deactivating drivers for anything and I'm talking about drunk adults making up lies or woman complaining about something stupid to get a free ride or get us deactivated. Imagine picking up a kid and they lie to their parents? When it comes to driving for uber we are on our own defending ourselves and uber would immediately deactivate us without hearing our side of the story, They also will increase their bullshit booking fee and drivers don't get a extra penny for the risks, I definitely would opt out.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

grams777 said:


> You mean like these:
> 
> http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/11/10/uber-driver-accused-rape-teen-girl-orange-county/
> SANTA ANA (CBS / AP) - Orange County prosecutors have charged an Uber driver with raping an unconscious 17-year-old girl after picking her up in Huntington Beach.
> ...


 Uber is opening up a can of worms having a service that picks up 13 to 17 year old kids, I'm against the idea because if anything happen as a driver you are on your own. All the real creeps and weirdos that drive for uber will come out in full force just to pick up kids, Uber is all about lining there pockets and drivers are taking all the risks for pennies.



JimKE said:


> I don't know about the policies in other markets, but you and I have most certainly had FBI background checks.
> 
> And local county criminal history checks. And Florida Criminal History. And Florida Sexual Predator list. And Department of Homeland Security Watch List.
> 
> ...


 Uber is cheap and wouldn't pay for drivers getting fingerprinted, It's crazy how uber didn't allow anyone under 18 but now have a service for kids? This company is ridiculous.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> We already established that non-account holders are not passengers.


If you get a request for Vicky and the rider gets in and says she's Vicky, how do you know she's the account holder?

Let's suppose you have two people riding in your back seat. By definition, one of them has to be a non-account holder, yes?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Red Leader said:


> Aren't all kids service animals?


Well they used to be--before remote controls came out. I'm not really clear on why anyone has kids nowadays since they can change the TV channel from their couch. No service animal/child necessary.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> If you get a request for Vicky and the rider gets in and says she's Vicky, how do you know she's the account holder?
> 
> Let's suppose you have two people riding in your back seat. By definition, one of them has to be a non-account holder, yes?


You ask for ID.

No, think about pool rides. More than one person in the world has an Uber account. Someone accompanied by an account holder is a totally different scenario from an unaccompanied non-account holder.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> Someone accompanied by an account holder is a totally different scenario from an unaccompanied non-account holder.


Where did you learn this?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Where did you learn this?


It's in the contract.


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## Go4 (Jan 8, 2017)

Sorry, but I agree with Coachman on the point of having a legal pax who is NOT an account owner. Account owners can can legally (per Uber) arrange for non account holders as pax. Per the TOS.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Well they used to be--before remote controls came out. I'm not really clear on why anyone has kids nowadays since they can change the TV channel from their couch. No service animal/child necessary.


Well put. Did you see the movie WALL-e?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Demon said:


> It's in the contract.


This is where you point to the TOS, right?


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## CaliUberGirl (Feb 19, 2017)

I'm not a parent. But I feel like putting your kid in a vehicle with someone you don't know makes you borderline unfit.

And while I don't get paid enough to be a babysitter, I also don't get paid enough to care whom I drive as long as their daddy's money is green.

The only problem I really foresee is the aggro parents who will undoubtedly get ticked off at the driver who kicks their entitled precious poopsy out of their vehicle for bad behavior. But then...if you don't know how to discipline your child, don't expect me to care.

But...thank you for riding with us and have a nice day.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> This is where you point to the TOS, right?


Nope.


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## LVN8V_BC43 (Jun 3, 2016)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> Uber has removed the opt-out option from the teen driver information page here:
> 
> https://www.uber.com/drive/seattle/...rget-email_1_10_us-seattle_d_en_us-teen-pilot
> 
> ...


The biggest issue here imo, is that "they're keeping ALL the extra money they're charging that isn't a product of ANY of their doing"...only those that have gone out of their way to keep a high rating.

This is an outrage...they really should only be charging FLAT/FIXED usage fees (not this %-age of each trip crap)....why in the hell is it sensible to skim off a trip that was, say 20 miles or more vs. a simple 3-5mile trip? They don't pay out for vehicle wear/tear at all, & they call themselves a technology company linking the driver to pax via their app ("FIXED RATE!")....it's seriously asanine they're allowed to steal anything beyond their initial 30% or whatever off the INITIAL BOOKING. 
This article takes the theft to an even higher level!


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Coachman said:


> You really think teens are that tough? My experience with teens has been only good.


When is the trial?


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