# major flaw in coverage



## Bimmer1 (Sep 23, 2015)

Hi all..... I started to just move along when I found this out, but decided to create an account to warn others. I heard about uber a couple of weeks ago after a friend returned from vacation and told me about it. I thought it sounded like a good way to make some extra playing money so I researched it for about a week and created an account last week. My background check was cleared this week and I had planned on actually starting to drive this weekend. This entire time I've scoured every message board I could find and my primary concern was insurance. I found on the "ride share guy" site that liberty mutual is the only company friendly to ridesharing in Tennessee......... then I found this out today........."There is $0 coverage for your car, while you’re driving someone AND your car is damaged by an uninsured driver (even with the rideshare supplemental coverage)".........In other words, if an uninsured motorist hits you while you're on the way to pick up a rider or before the ride is over, you're on the hook for going after the at fault driver to recoup your losses. Uber only covers your passenger in this particular situation. This seems strange since they cover your car if you have full coverage insuranxe on your car and yhe accident is YOUR fault. I'm not ready to eat the cost of repairing or replacing my BMW. I verified this with liberty mutual too. They offer ZERO coverage in this scenario. They say that uber is the only option when you are on an active run. If I'm wrong, please correct me and please show proof. I was really looking forward to doing this, and that type of accident might never happen, but why take that risk??


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

This has been posted many times. 

Doing this part time (having a proper full time job) only leaves you open to your own car repair and anything costing over $50000 (that you cause) when online but no passenger and 1000000 coverage when on a trip. Your responsable for your car repairs. 

Not that I disagree with you, however its a side business and I can see Uber stance on your fixing your own vehicle. Because if there is damage on your vehicle that cant be covered then it was probably your fault. (Not including doucbags driving with no insurance)


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Bimmer1 said:


> Hi all..... I started to just move along when I found this out, but decided to create an account to warn others. I heard about uber a couple of weeks ago after a friend returned from vacation and told me about it. I thought it sounded like a good way to make some extra playing money so I researched it for about a week and created an account last week. My background check was cleared this week and I had planned on actually starting to drive this weekend. This entire time I've scoured every message board I could find and my primary concern was insurance. I found on the "ride share guy" site that liberty mutual is the only company friendly to ridesharing in Tennessee......... then I found this out today........."There is $0 coverage for your car, while you're driving someone AND your car is damaged by an uninsured driver (even with the rideshare supplemental coverage)".........In other words, if an uninsured motorist hits you while you're on the way to pick up a rider or before the ride is over, you're on the hook for going after the at fault driver to recoup your losses. Uber only covers your passenger in this particular situation. This seems strange since they cover your car if you have full coverage insuranxe on your car and yhe accident is YOUR fault. I'm not ready to eat the cost of repairing or replacing my BMW. I verified this with liberty mutual too. They offer ZERO coverage in this scenario. They say that uber is the only option when you are on an active run. If I'm wrong, please correct me and please show proof. I was really looking forward to doing this, and that type of accident might never happen, but why take that risk??


Remember also, hopefully your car is paid off, if not lender may repo your car if they find out you uber.


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## Michael-MS (Sep 4, 2015)

Uber quote"contingent comprehensive and collision insurance - so, if you maintain comprehensive and collision insurance on your own personal policy, our policy will cover physical damage to that vehicle up to the actual cash value of the vehicle, for any reason, with a $1,000 deductible" Collision insurance.

Inusrance web site quote: "If another driver caused your accident, he or she is responsible for paying to have your car repaired. In most cases, of course, the other driver has insurance that will pay. If he or she doesn't have insurance, you can have your insurance company pay to repair your car damage -- if you have collision coverage on your damaged car."

What am I missing here? Why do people think their cars are not covered by Uber while driving pax? I know there is a gap when App is ON before ride accepted. But this is pretty clear that Car is covered during trips if your personal policy would have covered it.


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## Bimmer1 (Sep 23, 2015)

Michael-MS said:


> Uber quote"contingent comprehensive and collision insurance - so, if you maintain comprehensive and collision insurance on your own personal policy, our policy will cover physical damage to that vehicle up to the actual cash value of the vehicle, for any reason, with a $1,000 deductible" Collision insurance.
> 
> Inusrance web site quote: "If another driver caused your accident, he or she is responsible for paying to have your car repaired. In most cases, of course, the other driver has insurance that will pay. If he or she doesn't have insurance, you can have your insurance company pay to repair your car damage -- if you have collision coverage on your damaged car."
> 
> What am I missing here? Why do people think their cars are not covered by Uber while driving pax? I know there is a gap when App is ON before ride accepted. But this is pretty clear that Car is covered during trips if your personal policy would have covered it.


What are you missing here?? Unless I'm wrong, you just confirmed the only concern I have with the insurance coverage..........."Inusrance web site quote: "If another driver caused your accident, he or she is responsible for paying to have your car repaired. ***In most cases***, of course, the other driver has insurance that will pay. If he or she doesn't have insurance, you can have your insurance company pay to repair your car damage -- if you have collision coverage on your damaged car.".........So, if the other person is responsible for paying...but doesn't have liability insurance....your personal policy would normally take care of it.....BUT.....if you are "driving for payment", which you are, YOUR PERSONAL POLICY WILL NOT ONLY DENY COVERAGE, BUT WILL, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, CANCEL YOUR POLICY ALTOGETHER. Where does it say that Uber will pay if your personal policy denies the claim??? From everything I've seen and heard, if the accident is YOUR fault while you're on the way to pick up a rider or are actually on the ride itself, uber will pay to have your car repaired (but no medical coverage for you) with a $1,000 deductible......which is entirely fair......but if it's the other drivers fault......uber doesn't pay at all except to cover your passenger. The way I understand it, you HAVE to file the claim with YOUR personal insurance provider, which will ultimately be denied. When I opened a chat request to address this concern with uber from the "help" button on the app earlier today, I was chatting with a guy from uber named Hamar. I brought up this concern to him and he could only say that uber is working on some "big things" for the future........seriously??? So....as I stated before, the likelihood of an uninsured driver hitting you might be slim...but it's still a possibility. I've personally known people that have lost their licenses and still drove without a license OR insurance. One of them because of DUI and the other from excessive points from speeding/reckless driving tickets and then neither couldn't afford the SR22 coverage to get the license back......but they drove anyway. Then they got braver by the day and started driving just like everything was normal.....with no license, and no insurance. Those people are all over the place. It's just not worth the risk when replacing my 2011 BMW would set me back around $25k if some drunk, uninsured motorist totaled me.


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## Bimmer1 (Sep 23, 2015)

Simon said:


> This has been posted many times.
> 
> Doing this part time (having a proper full time job) only leaves you open to your own car repair and anything costing over $50000 (that you cause) when online but no passenger and 1000000 coverage when on a trip. Your responsable for your car repairs.
> 
> Not that I disagree with you, however its a side business and I can see Uber stance on your fixing your own vehicle. Because if there is damage on your vehicle that cant be covered then it was probably your fault. (Not including doucbags driving with no insurance)


Sorry for bringing it up if it's already been covered, but I've researched as much as I could find over the past week and never saw this exact issue addressed. While I agree that being a "contractor" implies a certain amount of shared responsibility, I guess the fact that uber's coverage doesn't extend to mirror your personal uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage doesn't seem right when considering everything else is mirrored. 25 years ago I had a brand new Mustang LX 5.0 and got laid off from my job.......missed ONE insurance payment....had an accident that was my fault and then went into bankruptcy as a result of it. I'm not playing around with insuarance coverage. I cancelled my uber partner account today because of this gap in coverage.


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## Michael-MS (Sep 4, 2015)

I see the confusion, but you are wrong. You are misunderstanding the terminology of insurance.

"If another driver caused your accident, he or she is responsible for paying to have your car repaired. In most cases, of course, the other driver has insurance that will pay. If he or she doesn't have insurance, you can have your insurance company pay to repair your car damage if you have *collision coverage* on your damaged car. "

Collision Insurance kicks in regardless of who's fault it is. Collision is damage to your car regardless of fault.

Being hit by an under insured motorist (the coverage every agent sells you for no reason) is for Medical and Death only. It does not kick in for car damage. If you have collision insurance you are 100% covered regardless of fault.

The only reason people care about Liability and Fault vs. filing a collision claim because then the claim is on their insurance and not yours. So your rates don't go up.

But all we care about is that Uber provides Collision coverage in stage 3 and they do!!


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## Michael-MS (Sep 4, 2015)

Bimmer1 said:


> I guess the fact that uber's coverage doesn't extend to mirror your personal uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage doesn't seem right when considering everything else is mirrored. 25 years ago I had a brand new Mustang LX 5.0 and got laid off from my job.......missed ONE insurance payment....had an accident that was my fault and then went into bankruptcy as a result of it. I'm not playing around with insuarance coverage. I cancelled my uber partner account today because of this gap in coverage.


Under insured motorist coverage has nothing to do with Liability or Collision.


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## Michael-MS (Sep 4, 2015)

This is all assuming your insurance company allows you to rideshare. Geico strictly prohibits it and will not cover a car used for ridesharing. Says directly that in their policy. Farmers and State Farm allow ride sharing just not while App is on assuming part time usage,etc.


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## Bimmer1 (Sep 23, 2015)

Michael-MS said:


> I see the confusion, but you are wrong. You are misunderstanding the terminology of insurance.
> 
> "If another driver caused your accident, he or she is responsible for paying to have your car repaired. In most cases, of course, the other driver has insurance that will pay. If he or she doesn't have insurance, you can have your insurance company pay to repair your car damage if you have *collision coverage* on your damaged car. "
> 
> ...


I'm as much of a "newbie" as one can be in the rideshare world and cancelled my uber account today before even logging on to accept my first rider because of this ONE issue, and I'm not not trying to pick a fight here.....but YOU, sir, are the one who's wrong. Uninsured/under insured coverage is NOT only for medical/death. It is totally separate from comp/collision. If you are the one that causes the accident, or do something accidentally to cause damage to your car, then comp/collision goes into effect and you will have to pay your deductible and your liability coverage kicks in to take care of the other parties involved. If an uninsured/underinsured driver causes the accident, your uninsured motorist coverage kicks in to cover BOTH your vehicle repairs and medical to you and any of your passengers, but there is NO deductible on your end. Your insurance company goes after the other party for re-imbursement. In either case, if you're "on the clock" driving for uber, your personal insurance is USELESS and WILL NOT honor the claim if you're hit by an uninsured driver. I went over this EXTENSIVELY with Liberty Mutual today and asked every question I could think of. I was on the verge of cancelling my Allstate policy and accept a $100/month increase in coverage just to be with a company that would accept me driving for uber when I found out about this gap in coverage. Again, I'm not trying to raise a stink or poke anyone in the eye here, but this ONE GAP in coverage is a real problem and uber's rep and an insurance agent both acknowledged it.


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## Michael-MS (Sep 4, 2015)

Bimmer1 said:


> Uninsured/under insured coverage is NOT only for medical/death. It is totally separate from comp/collision. If you are the one that causes the accident, or do something accidentally to cause damage to your car, then comp/collision goes into effect and you will have to pay your deductible and your liability coverage kicks in to take care of the other parties involved. If an uninsured/underinsured driver causes the accident, your uninsured motorist coverage kicks in to cover BOTH your vehicle repairs and medical to you and any of your passengers, but there is NO deductible on your end. Your insurance company goes after the other party for re-imbursement. In either case, if you're "on the clock" driving for uber, your personal insurance is USELESS and WILL NOT honor the claim if you're hit by an uninsured driver. I went over this EXTENSIVELY with Liberty Mutual today and asked every question I could think of. I was on the verge of cancelling my Allstate policy and accept a $100/month increase in coverage just to be with a company that would accept me driving for uber when I found out about this gap in coverage. Again, I'm not trying to raise a stink or poke anyone in the eye here, but this ONE GAP in coverage is a real problem and uber's rep and an insurance agent both acknowledged it.


Sorry, you are wrong. Maybe it varies by state. These are the legal definitions:


*Uninsured / Underinsured Motorist (UM/UIM)* - If you or your passengers are injured in an accident in which the other driver is at fault and either does not have insurance (uninsured) or does not have enough insurance (underinsured) to pay all of your loss, this coverage pays for the *medical* costs of you and your passengers.

*Collision* - This coverage is for damage to your vehicle resulting from a collision, *regardless of who is at fault*. It provides for repair of the damage to your vehicle or a monetary payment to compensate you for your loss.
Plain and simple, in Nevada. Also, Liberty Mutual and All State both do not allow and will cancel cars used in ride sharing. Farmers and State Farm are the only two you should be talking to. Again, speaking for Nevada here...


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## Bimmer1 (Sep 23, 2015)

Michael-MS said:


> Sorry, you are wrong. Maybe it varies by state. These are the legal definitions:
> 
> 
> *Uninsured / Underinsured Motorist (UM/UIM)* - If you or your passengers are injured in an accident in which the other driver is at fault and either does not have insurance (uninsured) or does not have enough insurance (underinsured) to pay all of your loss, this coverage pays for the *medical* costs of you and your passengers.
> ...


Must be different by state then, because Liberty Mutual is the ONLY carrier in Tennessee that's friendly to ride sharing. I won't even mention that I'm THINKING about it with my current insurance carrier (Allstate) because I've read elsewhere that they'll preemptively drop you just in case you decide to drive knowing they don't cover it. In Tennessee, um/uim basically becomes comp/collision ONLY for you, your passengers and your car without a deductible almost as if it's actually the other party paying. I had an uninsured teenager back into my 2007 Z4 coupe in 2012 and broke the left headlight ($2,500!!) and damaged the bumper. If I had to claim it under my comp/collision policy, it would have cost me $1000 (my deductible). My insurance (at the time it was State Farm) repaired my car with NO deductible because it was filed under my uninsured motorist coverage.



*

*


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## Bimmer1 (Sep 23, 2015)

Michael-MS said:


> Sorry, you are wrong. Maybe it varies by state. These are the legal definitions:
> 
> 
> *Uninsured / Underinsured Motorist (UM/UIM)* - If you or your passengers are injured in an accident in which the other driver is at fault and either does not have insurance (uninsured) or does not have enough insurance (underinsured) to pay all of your loss, this coverage pays for the *medical* costs of you and your passengers.
> ...


I went online and pulled my policy. Note the uninsured motorist covers BOTH medical and property.


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## Bimmer1 (Sep 23, 2015)

Bimmer1 said:


> I went online and pulled my policy. Note the uninsured motorist covers BOTH medical and property.


The only difference with this policy and the one I had with State Farm is that this one has a $200 deductible that I never noticed before. With State Farm I didn't have to pay anything out of pocket to fix my car. Still, $200 isn't much and it shows that it does, in fact, pay for property damage.


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## Michael-MS (Sep 4, 2015)

Bimmer1 said:


> I went online and pulled my policy. Note the uninsured motorist covers BOTH medical and property.


It does look like Tennessee has property damage UM. My state does not. Sorry to quibble with you over that detail.

Remove Uber from discussion: If you declined UMPD coverage your car would still be covered for an At Fault accident by an uninsured driver, but with your collision deductible. Your agent is just double dipping you for extra profits and more coverage. I would drop that from my policy tomorrow if I was you. Find a real agent to discuss this with you. Maybe ask an attorney. You're being lied to.

You need to understand that UMPD is the proper term for it. It carries a lower deductible than your collision insurance and covers the 10% chance that the driver isn't insured. Source below:

*Uninsured motorist property damage*
Uninsured motorist property damage (UMPD) coverage may seem strange, especially considering many people already have collision coverage on their car insurance. However, for careful drivers who don't have collision coverage, UMPD can be a good way to protect their car from uninsured drivers without raising their premium a lot. In addition, a lower deductible for UMPD is frequently cheaper than collision coverage with the same low deductible. UMPD does not usually apply in hit-and-run accidents, because UMPD coverage is cheaper than collision coverage -- making it very tempting for some drivers to make a "hit-and-run" claim under their UM coverage instead of their collision coverage, or to purchase UM coverage and not have collision coverage at all.

After reading that above, you will see that your trusty agent is misinforming you.

Colision from your personal coverage will still be honored by Ubers policy regardless of who's fault the accident was.

Stage 1 (App off): Your Personal policy has full effect if they don't disallow ridesharing cars.
Stage 2 (App On) : Only 50/100/25 Liability from Uber. This is the gap/risk, do not drive. Wait in safe spot, pray tree does not fall on you.
Stage 3 (Ride accepted->Ride finish) : Uber insurance 1M Liability, 1M UM, Comp/Colision matched with 1k deductible.

The only gaps you have are Stage 2 and the difference in deductibles for Stage 3. There is no huge risk that I can see.

All the information I've found supports what I've said so far but print it out and ask an expert.


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## Bimmer1 (Sep 23, 2015)

Michael-MS said:


> It does look like Tennessee has property damage UM. My state does not. Sorry to quibble with you over that detail.
> 
> Remove Uber from discussion: If you declined UMPD coverage your car would still be covered for an At Fault accident by an uninsured driver, but with your collision deductible. Your agent is just double dipping you for extra profits and more coverage. I would drop that from my policy tomorrow if I was you. Find a real agent to discuss this with you. Maybe ask an attorney. You're being lied to.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your research, and, as you can see, I don't play around with coverage. I'm well above the Tennessee minimum requirement as well as uber's. As far as foregoing the UMPD....."it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." I might dig in deeper and see if I can find out more about this, but I've also already completely deactivated my account and uninstalled the app from both phones just to be on the safe side. If I find solid proof that my fears are unfounded, which I haven't as of yet, then I'll consider re-applying. But, if one of their own rep's confirmed my fears and then told me, "Maybe you were meant to do something else in life", that tells me a lot.


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## Michael-MS (Sep 4, 2015)

Lyft's deductible is $2500 so don't ever consider them. I totally get you don't like the gaps and risks and your agent is probably right. You're basically preparing for nuclear war on the roads every time you go out. Uber's not going to match that coverage. Uber totally allows you to buy commercial insurance so if that's what you need to feel safe then just factor that into the cost. Probably not profitable.


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## Tennesse869 (Nov 4, 2015)

Just checked with several major insurance companies in Tennessee. State Farm said they will not insure cars used for rideshares, Geico said the same. Just talked with liberty mutual. They said they would insure cars used for rideshares, but only in phase 1. Their insurance is not active during phase 2 or 3. Just sending an update.


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## trickynikki (Oct 26, 2015)

Bimmer1 said:


> Sorry for bringing it up if it's already been covered, but I've researched as much as I could find over the past week and never saw this exact issue addressed. While I agree that being a "contractor" implies a certain amount of shared responsibility, I guess the fact that uber's coverage doesn't extend to mirror your personal uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage doesn't seem right when considering everything else is mirrored. 25 years ago I had a brand new Mustang LX 5.0 and got laid off from my job.......missed ONE insurance payment....had an accident that was my fault and then went into bankruptcy as a result of it. I'm not playing around with insuarance coverage. I cancelled my uber partner account today because of this gap in coverage.


That's smart of you my friend. Now that some of us are older we now know how important it is to have insurance and to be able to buy it. Uber is really taking advantage of people who are mostly to young to know about insurance, or are too stupid to realize the consequences of their risks. I could have been one of them but when I asked Uber for a copy of their insurance coverage, then couldn't provide it.


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## CanOfWorms (Oct 27, 2015)

I know a lot of people on this site don't care for this guy but he pretty well set the record straight on insurance coverage. So give this a watch.

this HTML class. Value is


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

CanOfWorms said:


> I know a lot of people on this site don't care for this guy but he pretty well set the record straight on insurance coverage. So give this a watch.
> 
> this HTML class. Value is


What was the video? The video link didn't seem to work for me.


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## CanOfWorms (Oct 27, 2015)

Sorry I'm not sure how to link a youtube video. Just go to youtube and search to "uberman". The 9th video in his list "insurance facts you need to know" is what I was trying to link.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Bimmer1 said:


> Must be different by state then, because Liberty Mutual is the ONLY carrier in Tennessee that's friendly to ride sharing. I won't even mention that I'm THINKING about it with my current insurance carrier (Allstate) because I've read elsewhere that they'll preemptively drop you just in case you decide to drive knowing they don't cover it. In Tennessee, um/uim basically becomes comp/collision ONLY for you, your passengers and your car without a deductible almost as if it's actually the other party paying. I had an uninsured teenager back into my 2007 Z4 coupe in 2012 and broke the left headlight ($2,500!!) and damaged the bumper. If I had to claim it under my comp/collision policy, it would have cost me $1000 (my deductible). My insurance (at the time it was State Farm) repaired my car with NO deductible because it was filed under my uninsured motorist coverage.
> 
> *
> 
> *


I have had to use my uninsured/underinsured coverage when my SO was hit by a drunk uninsured driver. WE did have to pay the deductible. State Farm went after the driver to recover and told me if they were able to the deductible woukd be refunded to me. The other driver filed bankruptcy and never paid a penny.

This is in TX. It paid for the vehicle and medical, about $46,000 all told. I don't have state minimum btw.

So either you got lucky with the deductible or it varies by state/company.


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