# No-show fee



## flyingdingo (Feb 5, 2015)

I'll take a $6 no-show fee over a $5 minimum fare any day. It's why I rarely call or text the dumbshit pax. I drive to the pin and wait. The pax can see me on the map sitting there waiting for them. If they are too ****ing entitled, lazy, or stupid to call or text, too bad.


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## DCinATL (Jan 27, 2015)

OK, so I get confused on this - if you are sitting there, you have hit the arrived button. After 5 minutes (is that the time frame?) you hit driver no show and take off?


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## flyingdingo (Feb 5, 2015)

DCinATL said:


> OK, so I get confused on this - if you are sitting there, you have hit the arrived button. After 5 minutes (is that the time frame?) you hit driver no show and take off?


Yes


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

So how do you know you didn't take off on a $20 fare? You can't see where they are going till you start the trip.


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## just drive (Oct 29, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> So how do you know you didn't take off on a $20 fare? You can't see where they are going till you start the trip.


That's easy you convince yourself it was another minimum fare trip and feel better about it.


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## DCinATL (Jan 27, 2015)

OK...so wait 5 minutes and start the trip? If I do that, I can't cancel the ride as a rider no show.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

just drive said:


> That's easy you convince yourself it was another minimum fare trip and feel better about it.


In that case I can just convince myself just about anything. But I would rather just take a chance here in reality.


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## DCinATL (Jan 27, 2015)

Also: I have arrived before and the rider is no where close to where the pin dropped - one guy requested a pick up at his house but was at a bar / restaurant 10-15 minutes away when I called him. Instead of calling him, guess I should have sat for 5 minutes and then hit rider no show. If we do this, can the rider still ding our rating?


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## just drive (Oct 29, 2014)

DCinATL said:


> Also: I have arrived before and the rider is no where close to where the pin dropped - one guy requested a pick up at his house but was at a bar / restaurant 10-15 minutes away when I called him. Instead of calling him, guess I should have sat for 5 minutes and then hit rider no show. If we do this, can the rider still ding our rating?


No


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## brikosig (Dec 16, 2014)

The other aspect of leaving after 5 mins is that it guarantees the pax will think twice about leaving the next uber guy waiting for him..... and that helps us all. They're being disrespectful by making us wait... there should be consequences to that.
Personally I leave after 5 mins if there's no surge or a low surge.... if there is a surge, my wait time rises in connection with the surge factor.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

DCinATL said:


> OK...so wait 5 minutes and start the trip? If I do that, I can't cancel the ride as a rider no show.


Never start the trip without the rider in the car. That's an easy way to get a 1*.

Fact is you need to play it by ear on if you cancel a trip. I use the following rule myself.

1) Arrive at location hit arive
2) Wait 2 min if no show call pax.
3)If I get pax on phone I tell them I have arrived at the location giving them the address and wait.
4) If there was no answer by pax or voicemail I cancel at the 5 min if I did get an answer they get an additional 30 seconds.

Canceling on Pax after 5 min is always acceptable if they are late for the arrival. Sometimes you get a call with them asking why you aren't there anymore. It's ok to tell them Uber is an on demand service as that drivers only wait for 5 min before the call is canceled. Tell them that's an Uber Rule not yours. And in future you can request a driver to start the trip and they will wait longer.

Canceling is completely acceptable. But to tie that to short trips isn't an accurate reason since you have no idea how long a trip is till you swipe the start of a trip. You take your chances with a cancel. You could cancel a minimum or a whale of a trip. You just never know.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

brikosig said:


> The other aspect of leaving after 5 mins is that it guarantees the pax will think twice about leaving the next uber guy waiting for him..... and that helps us all. They're being disrespectful by making us wait... there should be consequences to that.
> Personally I leave after 5 mins if there's no surge or a low surge.... if there is a surge, my wait time rises in connection with the surge factor.


No show or incorrect address is probably the best choices. You get paid for both.


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## brikosig (Dec 16, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> No show or incorrect address is probably the best choices. You get paid for both.


hey thx Jax..... i was wondering if the incorrect address got us the no-show fee. now i know.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

brikosig said:


> hey thx Jax..... i was wondering if the incorrect address got us the no-show fee. now i know.


It did for me. I can tell you don't use the Other option as I wasn't paid for it.


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## Andy1234 (Jan 3, 2015)

I have to agree with Actionjax. Not calling or texting the rider before cancelling is great way to give the next driver a shitty rating.... which if everyone did this might be you! I use saved text templates in my phone to make this easy. 1)Arrived button 2) After 2 min send text "Arrived" 3) After 4 min "do you still need a rider" 4) At 5 min "Please request another Uber when you are ready to go" 5) If no responses from the first two tests I hit cancel immediately after the third text and take my fee. If by some chance they respond to my text with either "I'm coming" or give me another location... If it takes me more than 5 minutes to start the trip they get dinged on their rating unless there is a tip involved.


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## AltaClip (Feb 12, 2015)

Just a heads up that Uber could deny the cancel fee if you take longer than your initial estimate to arrive. They did this to me saying my 4 min 33 sec was longer than the 1 min to arrive when I accepted the ping. I decided to fight it and they gave me a courtesy cancel fee.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

AltaClip said:


> Just a heads up that Uber could deny the cancel fee if you take longer than your initial estimate to arrive. They did this to me saying my 4 min 33 sec was longer than the 1 min to arrive when I accepted the ping. I decided to fight it and they gave me a courtesy cancel fee.


I don't get it. What is YOUR initial estimate to arrive? You mean uber's always wrong estimate as in you arrived too fast?


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## AltaClip (Feb 12, 2015)

I assume it's similar to what the pax sees when they request. i.e. 1 min. Uber emailed me back saying I took 4 min 33 sec.

This is bs we know and I emailed to complain with details of waze projecting me 5 mins to reach the pax, etc.
They gave in but I felt so cheap for fighting for $4


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## OCBob (Jan 20, 2015)

DCinATL said:


> Also: I have arrived before and the rider is no where close to where the pin dropped - one guy requested a pick up at his house but was at a bar / restaurant 10-15 minutes away when I called him. Instead of calling him, guess I should have sat for 5 minutes and then hit rider no show. If we do this, can the rider still ding our rating?


Everyone should be careful of rider "by accident" dropping pin in wrong location. Sometimes they are actually smart and trying to get a cheaper surge rate by putting it a 1/2 mile outside their surge or high surge area. They will call the driver to let them know they are actually in a different spot. Check the rider app to see if they put it in a spot that has no or lower surge. If so, either wait out the five minutes but best is to tell them they need to cancel and put in their correct location. If it is surging and not playing the guarantee game, why would you chance the no show fee as better than taking a nice, long ride on a 2.5x surge?


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> In that case I can just convince myself just about anything. But I would rather just take a chance here in reality.


This is why looking at this, and many other Uber decisions drivers make, from an anecdotal viewpoint is a waste of time and effort. A $20+ fare is anecdotal example. A $4 fare is anecdotal example. They can't both be right... and they can't both be wrong. The issue is they both suffer from being too small of a sample size. But they're fun little arguments to throw at people you want to disagree with.

You've got to look at the average fare in your market, or better yet for the location the pickup is, to know whether the "two in the bush is better than the one in your hand".

If I'm in a cheap part of town where a lot of Uber trips are grocery store runs, then I prefer the profit of the cancel. If on the other hand, I'm in a rich suburb where a lot of trips are to the airport, or people headed downtown to the bars, then I prefer the trip. In both situations, you do NOT know where the destination is, but by guestimating the average fare of the situation, you can make a wise decision and increase your profitability over the long term, even when in the short term your decisions don't always match the long term average.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> This is why looking at this, and many other Uber decisions drivers make, from an anecdotal viewpoint is a waste of time and effort. A $20+ fare is anecdotal example. A $4 fare is anecdotal example. They can't both be right... and they can't both be wrong. The issue is they both suffer from being too small of a sample size. But they're fun little arguments to throw at people you want to disagree with.
> 
> You've got to look at the average fare in your market, or better yet for the location the pickup is, to know whether the "two in the bush is better than the one in your hand".
> 
> If I'm in a cheap part of town where a lot of Uber trips are grocery store runs, then I prefer the profit of the cancel. If on the other hand, I'm in a rich suburb where a lot of trips are to the airport, or people headed downtown to the bars, then I prefer the trip. In both situations, you do NOT know where the destination is, but by guestimating the average fare of the situation, you can make a wise decision and increase your profitability over the long term, even when in the short term your decisions don't always match the long term average.


Hense why such a general statement by the OP is useless as a fact point. It's just not a good strategy in my experience. For my market I guess even a short fare is better than the $4 cancel fee.

The fact is I do cancel late people. Just not because there is a financial gain, it's more to prove a point so they are not late the next time for another driver, or it's busy and I can get another fare just as easy. Even because of the bad place I need to stop and wait.

But as a financial strategy well I think that's short sighted and frankly a gamble.

I'm sure Uber keeps stats on drivers who do lot's of cancels. And if they are more than the average why would they not ditch a driver providing a poor experience.

Frankly my cancel rate is less than 5%. some on here it looks like they are pushing 20% or more. Not sure about that kind of strategy being a winning one.


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## AltaClip (Feb 12, 2015)

My cancel rate is under 5% too but 6-7 mins is my max wait time especially if it's an apart/condo/bar with no response.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Hense why such a general statement by the OP is useless as a fact point. It's just not a good strategy in my experience.


I completely disagree!

When I get to a pickup location and I can't find the passenger, the only reason I don't immediately cancel is because Uber pays me $48 per hour to wait for 5 minutes.

If the pax shows up at 4:59, I then just got paid ZERO for waiting. With the rates in my market, the trip would have to go a minimum of 3.36 miles for me to get the $4 in profit that I was 1 second away from earning before the pax showed up. And that 3.36 mile ride will take around 7 minutes, so instead of earning $4 of profit in 5 minutes, it took me 12 minutes to earn $4 in profit. So that fare needs to be even more than 3.36 miles before it's as appealing as earning $4 in five minutes not driving my car.

With rates even lower than the $1/mile I have, the $4 profit of a cancel is even more appealing than the average fare.

ETA: I messed up the math. I didn't even subtract my costs of that 3.36 mile trip. That's just $4 after Uber's cut. At $0.32/mile costs, I'm still $1.07 away from being at $4 profit. It's 4.52 miles I need to go before getting $4 in profit, so now it's 14 minutes to earn $4.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> I completely disagree!
> 
> When I get to a pickup location and I can't find the passenger, the only reason I don't immediately cancel is because Uber pays me $48 per hour to wait for 5 minutes.
> 
> ...


But of course you disagree. You would when it comes to finding an angle that tries to benefit the driver in an isolated bubble.

Lets look at this logic

You forgot the dead miles getting there. So again you are looking at just the paid aspect. All the cancel does is help you with recouping dead miles. Your only saving grace is to hope for a longer ride so you get something out of the deal.

You wonder why people can't make things work...your logic is all flawed from the start. And you are talking your market. I seem to be doing fine in just about any condition that's thrown up in Toronto. Yet you guys keep looking to game something out of this. Do the least amount of work for the most gain. Yet you can do just fine by doing your job.

But Toronto like you have alluded to must be an abnormality. Or maybe we just do the work and make it legitimately without playing games.

How about just giving sound advice and not paint the worst situations in a vacuum. Or you live in a crap city where every fare is less than $4


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> But of course you disagree. You would when it comes to finding an angle that tries to benefit the driver in an isolated bubble.
> 
> Lets look at this logic
> 
> You forgot the dead miles getting there. So again you are looking at just the paid aspect.


I didn't forget them. They are the same whether the pax shows up or not. This is why the issue of deadmiles has to be decided upon before accepting the request, not after.



> All the cancel does is help you with recouping dead miles. Your only saving grace is to hope for a longer ride so you get something out of the deal.


If the pax shows up, the trip has to cover the dead miles too. So whether it's $4 profit from a cancel, or $4 profit from driving, BOTH are impacted by the deadmiles the same. After you've accepted to put deadmiles on the car, you need profit one way or another to cover it. The $4 cancel profit is easier and quicker to cover it.



> You wonder why people can't make things work...your logic is all flawed from the start. And you are talking your market.


I agree my market is different, which is why I said it's my market's rates in the math I used. If you think my math is flawed, then show the flaw. Not liking the results doesn't mean it's flawed.



> I seem to be doing fine in just about any condition that's thrown up in Toronto. Yet you guys keep looking to game something out of this. Do the least amount of work for the most gain. Yet you can do just fine by doing your job.


Can you point out one person here claiming the rates in Toronto aren't high enough to work? I'm not saying there isn't one, but I don't know of one that comes to mind.



> But Toronto like you have alluded to must be an abnormality.


If rates were $0.65, $0.70, $0.75, etc.... in Toronto, then yes it would be an abnormality if it was profitable for drivers. It's $1.mile in my city, which puts it right on the tipping point of being a minimum wage job. Depends on how much it surges. If they dropped rates to $0.75/mile here, then it would have to surge a lot for it to at least minimum wage. Without surge, you've got to pick and chose what jobs to take, or willingly work for less than minimum wage.



> Or maybe we just do the work and make it legitimately without playing games.


Says the guy in a city who's rates haven't completely tanked yet.



> How about just giving sound advice and not paint the worst situations in a vacuum.


The advice I give is to those in cities with sub $1/mile rates, because in my country that's the majority of all cities. It's those cities with better rates that are in a vacuum.



> Or you live in a crap city where every fare is less than $4


Since the rate cut, my average fare is less than $8. That's $5.60 to me and is about 4.8 miles of billable miles. If I want to make ZERO for my time and make just enough to cover my car costs, at $0.32 per mile costs, my total miles to pickup and deliver that average fare cannot exceed 17.5 miles. Given the fare averages 4.8 miles, that means anything beyond 12.7 miles from me is a LOSING trip. I lose money just accepting those fares. If I actually want to make money for my time, I have to cut the distance I'm willing to go get a pax even shorter. This isn't my opinion. It's basic math. And at $0.75 per mile, the distance I can go for a pickup is even shorter. Once I'm there, if I have to wait for the customer, a cancel is more profitable per hour than the average fare. Again, this is just basic math that says this. It's not my opinion.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> I didn't forget them. They are the same whether the pax shows up or not. This is why the issue of deadmiles has to be decided upon before accepting the request, not after.
> 
> If the pax shows up, the trip has to cover the dead miles too. So whether it's $4 profit from a cancel, or $4 profit from driving, BOTH are impacted by the deadmiles the same. After you've accepted to put deadmiles on the car, you need profit one way or another to cover it. The $4 cancel profit is easier and quicker to cover it.
> 
> ...


So are you saying based on your rates if I applied them to my Saturday night rides I would come out at a loss? Or are we saying that the distances in your market don't work out to make a profit at your rates?

Just need some clarity. Because in the end you are saying that it's a sound strategy to cancel than to take the rides. Even the long ones.

So what is the point of ever doing it. Why bother with Uber at all.

I mean I agree you are not in a Win fall situation over there. But I'm having a hard time grasping a cancel is more profitable than a ride taken. That's because the assumption is all rides are going to be short ones.

Just haven't experienced that. Would love someone to throw up some real stats on that in another market. Something current.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> So are you saying based on your rates if I applied them to my Saturday night rides I would come out at a loss? Or are we saying that the distances in your market don't work out to make a profit at your rates?


If I could pull a high billable mile ratio as you do in my market, it would be a lot more profitable here. Just going from 50% to 60% here produces 42% more profit for me.

Manhattan and San Francisco have significant water influences that result in a city design that allow taxis to produce high efficiencies with their mileages. I believe Toronto may as well, but perhaps not to their extremes. If anything this shows shows how little Uber's one size fits all approach to world expansion needs a lot of customizing to make sure it works for the drivers. Unfortunately Uber is too focused on other goals to listen to drivers who say it's not profitable for them in their city. There needs to be far more collaboration in each city as to what works and what doesn't, so the prices Uber sets don't screw the drivers.



> Just need some clarity. Because in the end you are saying that it's a sound strategy to cancel than to take the rides. Even the long ones.


If the average fare for the pickup location is low enough, then yes, that's what I'm saying. If the average fare for the pickup location is high enough, then cancelling is not the better strategy. Not all pickup locations have the same average fare. There are places in the city that produce low average fares, and others that produce high average fares. Be smart about it. You can lose money doing some things Uber wants you to do.



> So what is the point of ever doing it. Why bother with Uber at all.


The point of every for profit business is profit. If some people want their Uber business to be non-profit, more power to them. But for those wanting profit, assuming that two dudes who 4.5 years ago just wanted to be able to push a button and have a car show up, are just handing over to you the driver a way to profit without you even thinking about it is insane. Again, some of the things Travis expects drivers to do produces a loss for the driver. Avoiding those things allows the driver more time to accept the profitable requests. But of course Uber would like to deactivate drivers for those things because they want every driver behaving the same way in their system.



> I mean I agree you are not in a Win fall situation over there. But I'm having a hard time grasping a cancel is more profitable than a ride taken. That's because the assumption is all rides are going to be short ones.


Again, depends on the average fare of the area of the pickup location. The math shows there is an average where the cancel is more profitable. If you don't have areas like that, it doesn't mean they don't exist in other cities... especially in cities with rates far lower than yours.



> Just haven't experienced that. Would love someone to throw up some real stats on that in another market. Something current.


How many posters here other than you and I share their math?


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## conejo (Mar 3, 2015)

I just click the arrived bottom , wait two minutes , txt the Pax, wait three minutes and cancel as a NO SHOW, get my 5 bucks and i get the next ping immediately since I only work in peak hours.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> If I could pull a high billable mile ratio as you do in my market, it would be a lot more profitable here. Just going from 50% to 60% here produces 42% more profit for me.
> 
> Manhattan and San Francisco have significant water influences that result in a city design that allow taxis to produce high efficiencies with their mileages. I believe Toronto may as well, but perhaps not to their extremes. If anything this shows shows how little Uber's one size fits all approach to world expansion needs a lot of customizing to make sure it works for the drivers. Unfortunately Uber is too focused on other goals to listen to drivers who say it's not profitable for them in their city. There needs to be far more collaboration in each city as to what works and what doesn't, so the prices Uber sets don't screw the drivers.
> 
> ...


As usual good points all around. We are back to that same old thing. This is a market driven thing. And I agree I don't know why some things work better than others in different cities. Would be nice to see some real figures and do some math on other areas. Then it would be more of a customized approach to doing Uber. (Or to get the hell out of doge)


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

Currently, in my market, it's very difficult to exceed the guaranteed rate even in the busiest part of town. These guarantees have completely changed the way I choose to Uber. As long as they're in place, I'll wait forever if I need to, because it's no miles on my car while I'm sitting and I'm still getting the $20/hr ($16/hr after their cut). 

The part of town where we can get frequent rides (maybe 3-4 per hour), they're very short ones, averaging no better than $6 per fare ($4 after Uber's cut). In the part of town where I get long, well-paying rides, I can maybe get one per hour, but I have to dead-head back to that area to get the next one, so doubling my mileage burden and really cutting in to whatever profit I had.

Once the guarantees disappear, I'm not sure that there's enough demand in Albuquerque to maintain better than $15/hour gross fares. Not sure what that'll look like after commission and mileage burden...don't want to think about it at this point...makes me sad!

I can neither agree nor disagree with the OP's original "always cancel after 5 minutes" approach. On my side of town, albeit much less demand, cancelling would likely be gaining $4 while giving up a $20-$25 fare. Next to the university, however, it's probably a 75% or better chance that cancelling will get me an extra $1.60.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

The fierce battle between the actionjax and the hammer rage on!!!! Just need the "Peter Dunn Theme" in the background.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> But of course you disagree. You would when it comes to finding an angle that tries to benefit the driver in an isolated bubble.
> 
> Lets look at this logic
> 
> ...


Dead miles to get there are no longer part of the equation. At that point they are well...dead. And gone. You are making a decision whether to wait or cancel by judging the future not the past dead miles.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> So how do you know you didn't take off on a $20 fare?


The same way you know that you just missed a $40 fare because you were unavailable for the ping because you were waiting for a 'no-show' who is such an inconsiderate jerk that they were never going to 5* you even after you waited 10 minutes for them.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> No show or incorrect address is probably the best choices. You get paid for both.


Uber logs are very accurate as to time and location. If you use 'incorrect address' and it was the correct address, the pax just has to complain and you won't get the cancel fee. If you use 'rider no-show', there is no disputing it.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

flyingdingo said:


> I'll take a $6 no-show fee over a $5 minimum fare any day. It's why I rarely call or text the dumbshit pax. I drive to the pin and wait. The pax can see me on the map sitting there waiting for them. If they are too ****ing entitled, lazy, or stupid to call or text, too bad.


That's what I do now, too. I had one a couple weeks ago in which I could actually see the guy sitting at the bar chatting with the cute bartender. So, I watched my clock closely. 4:57...4:58...4:59...5:00...CANCEL! That's $8 in my pocket and I was on my way.
Not 30 minutes later I had to pick up Melissa at a condo complex. According to the pin drop, I was no more than 20 feet away her. And, once again, 4:57...4:58...4:59...5:00...CANCEL! That's $8 in my pocket and I was on my way. Less than a minute later I got a ping from her again, but I ignored it because I wasn't going to have her rate me a 1 star for following the rules earlier. In situations like this, I think of myself as an educator and I'm helping my prospective paxs learn how not to be ******bags. Yes, that's just another service I provide.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> That's what I do now, too. I had one a couple weeks ago in which I could actually see the guy sitting at the bar chatting with the cute bartender. So, I watched my clock closely. 4:57...4:58...4:59...5:00...CANCEL! That's $8 in my pocket and I was on my way.
> Not 30 minutes later I had to pick up Melissa at a condo complex. According to the pin drop, I was no more than 20 feet away her. And, once again, 4:57...4:58...4:59...5:00...CANCEL! That's $8 in my pocket and I was on my way. Less than a minute later I got a ping from her again, but I ignored it because I wasn't going to have her rate me a 1 star for following the rules earlier. In situations like this, I think of myself as an educator and I'm helping my prospective paxs learn how not to be ******bags. Yes, that's just another service I provide.


Exactly! Not only is the cancel more lucrative than the fare in some parts of the city, there's the additional benefit of the cancel encouraging the rider to not make drivers wait in the future. In a way, that means drivers get paid $4 to teach inconsiderate passengers.

If cancels were $10 here like you have, I would be canceling 100% of the time. At my rates, I only net $7.68 of profit in a FULL HOUR OF WORK! Making $8 in profit for waiting 5 minutes and canceling is far more lucrative than driving 100% utilized by Uber for a full hour. Here's the math on my $7.68 per hour: https://uberpeople.net/threads/math-1-00-mile-7-68-per-hour-at-best.14459/


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Exactly! Not only is the cancel more lucrative than the fare in some parts of the city, there's the additional benefit of the cancel encouraging the rider to not make drivers wait in the future. In a way, that means drivers get paid $4 to teach inconsiderate passengers.
> 
> If cancels were $10 here like you have, I would be canceling 100% of the time. At my rates, I only net $7.68 of profit in a FULL HOUR OF WORK! Making $8 in profit for waiting 5 minutes and canceling is far more lucrative than driving 100% utilized by Uber for a full hour. Here's the math on my $7.68 per hour: https://uberpeople.net/threads/math-1-00-mile-7-68-per-hour-at-best.14459/


Ham - it's sad that the system is designed in such a fashion that we drivers have to game the system in order to earn a profit. But given what Uber has created, this is to be expected. You and I are in the minority of drivers who have figured this out. But I'm glad that drivers are showing up here to glean the knowledge and experience that drivers such as you and I can provide. And the continued rate cuts are driving this to a zero-sum game for drivers, which also means that the smarter drivers like you and I will inevitably be cut at some point because of the skills we have developed in gaming the scheme. But until then, I will continue to help my fellow drivers maximize their profit while flouting Uber's edicts and recommendations that do nothing to help us to earn a profit. Think of this as a service we provide to our brethren.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

just drive said:


> That's easy you convince yourself it was another minimum fare trip and feel better about it.


But think about the stats here. On average, Uber driver earn $7 to $10 per hour on a good shift. So, knowing that, if a driver spends five minutes getting to the pin drop, then waits five minutes then cancels, that driver (in my market) just earned $8 for ten minutes of effort, or $48 hourly rate. Since I operate from a statistical basis, it is far more profitable to collect that eight dollars than to roll the dice. Since I'm into profit maximization, the best option is to start the five-minute clock, and then cancel at 5:01 and be on my way to the next ping or cancel.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Ham - it's sad that the system is designed in such a fashion that we drivers have to game the system in order to earn a profit. But given what Uber has created, this is to be expected. You and I are in the minority of drivers who have figured this out. But I'm glad that drivers are showing up here to glean the knowledge and experience that drivers such as you and I can provide. And the continued rate cuts are driving this to a zero-sum game for drivers, which also means that the smarter drivers like you and I will inevitably be cut at some point because of the skills we have developed in gaming the scheme. But until then, I will continue to help my fellow drivers maximize their profit while flouting Uber's edicts and recommendations that do nothing to help us to earn a profit. Think of this as a service we provide to our brethren.


My last ride was 3 weeks ago today. So technically I already cut myself. And did so because everything you say above is true.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Never start the trip without the rider in the car. That's an easy way to get a 1*.
> 
> Fact is you need to play it by ear on if you cancel a trip. I use the following rule myself.
> 
> ...


Statistically speaking, a driver is far better off canceling and collecting the cancel fee than waiting and hoping for a whale trip. Remember, a cancel earns you the cancel fee for roughly 10 minutes of work - 5 minute drive then 5 minute wait. In my market, that means $8 in my pocket for 10 minutes of effort...or $48 per hour. The average Uber hourly earnings (after expenses) is only $7 to $10 per hour. So, based purely on stats, canceling and collecting that fee is a better option by a considerable margin.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> My last ride was 3 weeks ago today. So technically I already cut myself. And did so because everything you say above is true.


That is going to be commonplace here shortly. Only the drivers silly enough to believe that Uber's zero-sum game is profitable will continue to work this scheme and the quality of the rider experience will decline markedly. Until then, I will provide my tutorial services to my brethren.


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## just drive (Oct 29, 2014)

I pray for no show cancellations. I'm lazy and like to get paid for doing less work.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

just drive said:


> I pray for no show cancellations. I'm lazy and like to get paid for doing less work.


I like to get paid for work that has ZERO cost.

$4 of profit, for 5 minutes, with zero cost, is $48 of pure profit per hour. I'd work my ass off for that!!!

Driving for the rates in my city is only $7.68 per hour when I work my ass off. It's because working your ass off driving people around has a lot of costs.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Statistically speaking, a driver is far better off canceling and collecting the cancel fee than waiting and hoping for a whale trip. Remember, a cancel earns you the cancel fee for roughly 10 minutes of work - 5 minute drive then 5 minute wait. In my market, that means $8 in my pocket for 10 minutes of effort...or $48 per hour. The average Uber hourly earnings (after expenses) is only $7 to $10 per hour. So, based purely on stats, canceling and collecting that fee is a better option by a considerable margin.


So my market it's $4 after the SRF. And it has never been statistically proven here. I think @UberHammer mad a good point it is dependent on rates and markets. But for this market you can take any of my stats of my drives and you will see that it does not work out better.

Either way I don't think Uber will consider that a sustainable model for a driver and will just cut them off as they will call it fraud. Look what has happened to others for much less. For them they are all about the stats.

You don't need to be faster than a bear, just faster than the slowest guy in the group. You don't want to be that person at the bottom while the Uber Bear is running at the group.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> So my market it's $4 after the SRF. And it has never been statistically proven here. I think @UberHammer mad a good point it is dependent on rates and markets. But for this market you can take any of my stats of my drives and you will see that it does not work out better.
> 
> Either way I don't think Uber will consider that a sustainable model for a driver and will just cut them off as they will call it fraud. Look what has happened to others for much less. For them they are all about the stats.
> 
> You don't need to be faster than a bear, just faster than the slowest guy in the group. You don't want to be that person at the bottom while the Uber Bear is running at the group.


Cute metaphor. But keep in mind that when we cancel after 5 minutes, that we are playing entirely within the rules Uber has set. That's not to say Uber wouldn't skirt their own rules to shitcan a driver - because they will! But who gives a shit?


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Cute metaphor. But keep in mind that when we cancel after 5 minutes, that we are playing entirely within the rules Uber has set. That's not to say Uber wouldn't skirt their own rules to shitcan a driver - because they will! But who gives a shit?


Uber ignores their own "rules" just as much as they ignore legislated law, and the contractual law in their own contracts.

Drivers have every right to cancel after 5 minutes. It spells it out in section 2.4 of the contract:

"You retain the option, via the Driver App, to attempt to accept or to decline or ignore a User's request for Transportation Services via the Uber Services, *or to cancel an accepted request for Transportation Services via the Driver App, subject to Company's then current cancellation policies*."

But just as easily as Uber coerces drivers to give up their right to ignore pings at any level of acceptance rate, they will coerce drivers to give up their right to cancel within the current cancellation policies. The 80% acceptance rate and 90% cancel rate are "rules" that Uber pulls out of thin air. They aren't in the contract anywhere. Nor is Uber's right to deactivate for them. So even if all your ping ignores comply with your contractual rights, and all your cancels comply with your contractual rights, Uber doesn't give a shit. They ignore the contract just as much as they ignore the law.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> *subject to Company's then current cancellation policies*."


Since this is clearly indicated on the partner site the 80% accept rule looks to me like they are following the contract.


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## flyingdingo (Feb 5, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> That's what I do now, too. I had one a couple weeks ago in which I could actually see the guy sitting at the bar chatting with the cute bartender. So, I watched my clock closely. 4:57...4:58...4:59...5:00...CANCEL! That's $8 in my pocket and I was on my way.
> Not 30 minutes later I had to pick up Melissa at a condo complex. According to the pin drop, I was no more than 20 feet away her. And, once again, 4:57...4:58...4:59...5:00...CANCEL! That's $8 in my pocket and I was on my way. Less than a minute later I got a ping from her again, but I ignored it because I wasn't going to have her rate me a 1 star for following the rules earlier. In situations like this, I think of myself as an educator and I'm helping my prospective paxs learn how not to be ******bags. Yes, that's just another service I provide.


I got an email today from Uber. Here is the exchange:

Hi,

It looks like you have cancelled over 15% of the trips that you accepted last week from 03/02/15 - 03/08/15. Please log off when you are not in a position to complete trips. Canceling trips causes negative user experiences, makes our system less reliable, and can result in account deactivation.

Thanks for understanding,

Your Uber ATL Operations Team
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

My response:
It seems you are counting the no-show cancellations against me. Please check it and let me know. Thank you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

Thanks for reaching out. If you have a rider who's a no show be sure to wait 5-10 minutes and then attempt to contact the rider via phone call to get their correct location before canceling the trip, however if they don't answer cancel the fare and select "client no show". Calling the rider to get the correct address will cut down on the number of cancellations you have.

Thanks for your understanding, and if you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask.

Best,

Heather

*Uber Support
*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My response:
Time is money. The passenger should be ready to hop in when we arrive. I wish Uber and the Uber rider app did a better job of making this clear to the rider. I click arrive, and the rider can watch the car arriving on the map. No need to respond.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

> Calling the rider to get the correct address will cut down on the number of cancellations you have.


So would not sending me incorrect addresses. I cancel them because I'm buying these leads from you. Do you pay for things that are wrong?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

flyingdingo said:


> I got an email today from Uber. Here is the exchange:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> ...


Beautiful response. Put it back in their court. The driver didn't create the problem, so why does the driver have to solve the problem?

@UberHammer encapsulated it very well, too, when he said
I cancel them because I'm buying these leads from you. Do you pay for things that are wrong?​I have never thought of us drivers as buying leads from Uber, but that is *exactly* what we're doing when we pay Uber its 20% juice on each ride. So, when we get a shit lead that is in the wrong location or involves a pax not paying attention, we drivers are under no obligation to pay for that lead. @UberHammer is exactly correct.


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## OCBob (Jan 20, 2015)

had 3 no shows last Thursday after 12AM. One was a guy that called and said a SUV, Black and me were scehduled to pick him up but he was just messing around with the app. I told him to cancel all of them but start with those first as they were expensive. I continued onto the pin out in no man's land and waited for him to cancel. He didn't so I collected my $5. I wasn't going to chance my acceptance and actual ride acceptance on some guy not following directions. I did my job and he hopefully learned a $5 lesson. I just hope he didn't get charged for the other rides too!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

OCBob said:


> had 3 no shows last Thursday after 12AM. One was a guy that called and said a SUV, Black and me were scehduled to pick him up but he was just messing around with the app. I told him to cancel all of them but start with those first as they were expensive. I continued onto the pin out in no man's land and waited for him to cancel. He didn't so I collected my $5. I wasn't going to chance my acceptance and actual ride acceptance on some guy not following directions. I did my job and he hopefully learned a $5 lesson. I just hope he didn't get charged for the other rides too!


I kind of hope he did get charged for the other rides he requested. What the hell is doing "just messing around" with the app? Does he also "just mess around" with 911 just to see if it works?


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## OCBob (Jan 20, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> I kind of hope he did get charged for the other rides he requested. What the hell is doing "just messing around" with the app? Does he also "just mess around" with 911 just to see if it works?


I think it is a little different but it was weird that he called and I was honest with him on the charges. He chose to ignore my advice.


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## OCBob (Jan 20, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> So my market it's $4 after the SRF. And it has never been statistically proven here. I think @UberHammer mad a good point it is dependent on rates and markets. But for this market you can take any of my stats of my drives and you will see that it does not work out better.
> 
> Either way I don't think Uber will consider that a sustainable model for a driver and will just cut them off as they will call it fraud. Look what has happened to others for much less. For them they are all about the stats.
> 
> You don't need to be faster than a bear, just faster than the slowest guy in the group. You don't want to be that person at the bottom while the Uber Bear is running at the group.


You do realize that you get your passenger say 3 minutes after arrival and you are off to a min fare (most likely) or a $20 fare. We wait 5 minutes and 10 seconds after arriving and when we collect our $5, we are now back online 2 minutes and 30 seconds after you to be ready to get another ride. Sure it might be 3 miles away and be a min fare but it can also be a $20 fare. That is $5 plus $20 for 3 miles and being behind you only 7-8 minutes. Or it is another no show and we continue on. There just isn't a real way to know which one was better.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> So my market it's $4 after the SRF. And it has never been statistically proven here. I think @UberHammer mad a good point it is dependent on rates and markets. But for this market you can take any of my stats of my drives and you will see that it does not work out better.
> 
> Either way I don't think Uber will consider that a sustainable model for a driver and will just cut them off as they will call it fraud. Look what has happened to others for much less. For them they are all about the stats.
> 
> You don't need to be faster than a bear, just faster than the slowest guy in the group. You don't want to be that person at the bottom while the Uber Bear is running at the group.


Following Uber's recommendation of waiting five minutes before canceling is fraud? How? Or are you saying that Uber would openly admit that its own rule constitutes fraud?


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

OCBob said:


> You do realize that you get your passenger say 3 minutes after arrival and you are off to a min fare (most likely) or a $20 fare. We wait 5 minutes and 10 seconds after arriving and when we collect our $5, we are now back online 2 minutes and 30 seconds after you to be ready to get another ride. Sure it might be 3 miles away and be a min fare but it can also be a $20 fare. That is $5 plus $20 for 3 miles and being behind you only 7-8 minutes. Or it is another no show and we continue on. There just isn't a real way to know which one was better.


Completely agree. You just never know.

I think the issue lies when it becomes a strategy for some to make money. Where a cancel is worth more than a ride. I don't think Uber sees it the same and if your cancels outweigh the rides that could be an issue.

I would hate to go back to the days where the pax gets the first cancel free. Or they change the game to say now we must be there for 10 min.

I wouldn't put it past them if the system gets abused.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Since prevention is worth a pound of cure, I haven't heard anybody critique my suggestion in my signature. Any opinions?


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> Never start the trip without the rider in the car. That's an easy way to get a 1*.
> 
> Fact is you need to play it by ear on if you cancel a trip. I use the following rule myself.
> 
> ...


You are a robot.


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Since prevention is worth a pound of cure, I haven't heard anybody critique my suggestion in my signature. Any opinions?


I happen to agree with your signature. It is in the driver's best interest to confirm by text or call every request that is more than five minutes away before even moving their vehicle. If no response, then cancel. If the rider gives any indication that the ride might be a minimum Fare, then cancel. If rider refuses to give exact destination address, cancel.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Since prevention is worth a pound of cure, I haven't heard anybody critique my suggestion in my signature. Any opinions?


Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner on this. Yes, your suggestion is very valid. In fact, I used it last night. I got a ping from a locale I didn't recognize. Turns out it was at a really shitty mobile home park and they wanted to be picked up in what appeared to be a dark corner of the place. (Isn't Google earth wonderful?) So, I started heading that way, but after a few minutes I just got a weird feeling. I cancelled the trip, turned off my driving apps, and went home.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Just to reiterate what's probably been said on other threads of this nature, take the cancel every time unless it's a huge surge you don't want to lose or you have already made your guarantee and just want safe time online. Any pax that makes you wait for more than 5 minutes has a higher risk of being an a-hole who will 1 star you just to get the rating off his screen so he can order the next ride.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Since prevention is worth a pound of cure, I haven't heard anybody critique my suggestion in my signature. Any opinions?


I don't accept pings from distant or weird pickup locations. If I did, that's good advice.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Just to reiterate what's probably been said on other threads of this nature, take the cancel every time unless it's a huge surge you don't want to lose or you have already made your guarantee and just want safe time online. Any pax that makes you wait for more than 5 minutes has a higher risk of being an a-hole who will 1 star you just to get the rating off his screen so he can order the next ride.


Relatedly, any pax who needs a call or text to remind him that he requested you in the first place is likely a person who needs a babysitter and takes no responsibility for his actions and will have no problem rating the driver low for no good reason. None of us need to take that chance.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

So who officially is winning this battle between the actionjax, and the hammer?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> So who officially is winning this battle between the actionjax, and the hammer?


They're both good blokes. Let's not choose up sides.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> So who officially is winning this battle between the actionjax, and the hammer?


Actionjax has chained himself to the Titanic's staircase. I tried, but I can't find the key to unlock him. Save yourselves... don't look back! The lifeboats are filling up, and there's not many left. He's going to have to live with his decision, how ever short that life may be. [...a crooner starts singing _O' Danny Boy_ in the distance]


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Actionjax has chained himself to the Titanic's staircase. I tried, but I can't find the key to unlock him. Save yourselves... don't look back! The lifeboats are filling up, and there's not many left. He's going to have to live with his decision, how ever short that life may be. [...a crooner starts singing _O' Danny Boy_ in the distance]


If he could just free himself from the staircase, that Styrofoam helmet could keep him afloat for days. Just sayin'.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Actionjax has chained himself to the Titanic's staircase. I tried, but I can't find the key to unlock him. Save yourselves... don't look back! The lifeboats are filling up, and there's not many left. He's going to have to live with his decision, how ever short that life may be. [...a crooner starts singing _O' Danny Boy_ in the distance]


There is the drama I miss so much. Too bad be blocked me. Unless he got over that.

I haven't given up hope on UberHammer to see there is more to life then being angry with Uber.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

If I call you both turtles eggs will you be duly offended and shocked that I have used such strong language on this forum?


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> If I call you both turtles eggs will you be duly offended and shocked that I have used such strong language on this forum?


Reported


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

Not sure I want to get turtle egged but...

I drive xl, it's different as pings are further away and takes along time to get everybody to the car.
I cancel and stay at the pin. the. See what I'm dealing with and see what can be worked out. Often end up taking the trip but not always. I have had the cancel fee removed after a re-ping and a good trip


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Scenicruiser said:


> Not sure I want to get turtle egged but...
> 
> I drive xl, it's different as pings are further away and takes along time to get everybody to the car.
> I cancel and stay at the pin. the. See what I'm dealing with and see what can be worked out. Often end up taking the trip but not always. I have had the cancel fee removed after a re-ping and a good trip


That seems like a lot of effort. But if it works, more power to ya...and Uber on!


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> That seems like a lot of effort. But if it works, more power to ya...and Uber on!


It is, but as I mentioned, I have already have invested time and money to get there. I don't log off, so often a get a new ping and go on my way. It doesn't always work out and I don't always sit there. Gotta mix it up somehow


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Scenicruiser said:


> Not sure I want to get turtle egged but...
> 
> I drive xl, it's different as pings are further away and takes along time to get everybody to the car.
> I cancel and stay at the pin. the. See what I'm dealing with and see what can be worked out. Often end up taking the trip but not always. I have had the cancel fee removed after a re-ping and a good trip


I have done the same thing where I emailed Uber and asked them to remove the cancel fee. The person I picked up was a girl who was in high school. Talking to her she sounded like someone who was down on her luck living in a low rent area on her own and going to her job at some small bakery at 7am. Her one ambition was to save enough money to help her go to university.

It was a long ride to her work and the fare was just under $20. I got the cancel fee removed. The $5 will do her more good than for me.

We did have a talk about her being late and told her most drivers would take the $5 and not go back to pick her up. She said she would be on time from now on. She got the idea.

Sometimes you just got to do what feels right.

But I did ding her rating a star for being late.


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

I still get the 20 % cancel-*****-text from uber quite often so it's not like I found "the cure-all procedure", just another tool in the box


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## DC Short Trip (Mar 12, 2015)

flyingdingo said:


> I'll take a $6 no-show fee over a $5 minimum fare any day. It's why I rarely call or text the dumbshit pax. I drive to the pin and wait. The pax can see me on the map sitting there waiting for them. If they are too ****ing entitled, lazy, or stupid to call or text, too bad.


Except that they can't always see that you've arrived. I had a guy the other day who was waiting for me, but the app showed him as "1 minute" and a block away. When I went downstairs I found him sitting in front of my building and he said he'd been there for about 2 minutes.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Scenicruiser said:


> It is, but as I mentioned, I have already have invested time and money to get there. I don't log off, so often a get a new ping and go on my way. It doesn't always work out and I don't always sit there. Gotta mix it up somehow


I like the way you think.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

flyingdingo said:


> I'll take a $6 no-show fee over a $5 minimum fare any day. It's why I rarely call or text the dumbshit pax. I drive to the pin and wait. The pax can see me on the map sitting there waiting for them. If they are too ****ing entitled, lazy, or stupid to call or text, too bad.


I just had that exact thing happen 45 minutes ago. I arrived at the office complex in under three minutes. According to graphic, I was within 10 yards of the rider. So I sat...and sat...4:58...4:59...5:00...5:01...Cancel. What is so ****ing difficult about watching your goddamn phone for two or three minutes?

Then I headed home. Three pings hit me on the way home but all three were behind me so I ignored them. I have a policy about not turning around once I'm moving. I'll turn left or right up to 90 degrees, but I will turn 180 degrees to get a pax.


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## Brokenjeep (Feb 18, 2015)

How about this scenario.. again wait..wait.. drive around looking for PAX, call a couple times to VM. 10 min later (yeah I am a sucker) they call and apparently I was at their destination, not pickup! And of course they must have "changed their number". (BTW, this was last night)

So has anyone had the 5 bucks taken away if the PAX complains?

This is the 4th "must have wrong number on file" case I have had in the last 2 weeks.. what gives, I thought it had to be a confirmed mobile number?


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Brokenjeep said:


> How about this scenario.. again wait..wait.. drive around looking for PAX, call a couple times to VM. 10 min later (yeah I am a sucker) they call and apparently I was at their destination, not pickup! And of course they must have "changed their number". (BTW, this was last night)
> 
> So has anyone had the 5 bucks taken away if the PAX complains?
> 
> This is the 4th "must have wrong number on file" case I have had in the last 2 weeks.. what gives, I thought it had to be a confirmed mobile number?


I am sure Uber will look at it by case by case basis. If you have a history of cancel's or ignores. They will I am sure reverse it on the driver before they ask questions. If you have lets say 1% of trips a cancel or issue I am sure thy will absorb the cancel fee.


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## J.J. Smith (Sep 26, 2014)

flyingdingo said:


> I'll take a $6 no-show fee over a $5 minimum fare any day. It's why I rarely call or text the dumbshit pax. I drive to the pin and wait. The pax can see me on the map sitting there waiting for them. If they are too ****ing entitled, lazy, or stupid to call or text, too bad.


I've done that upon occasion. I'm moving towards it more often.

I usually call at 2:00 minutes after arrival. Trouble is, if they answer the phone, they often say something like, "I'll only be a minute." or "I'm on my way." or "I'm in the elevator." Really means four or five minutes.

I hope they don't answer, and I can hit the "no-show" button at 5 minutes.

If it's a surge, I'm inclined to wait.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

J.J. Smith said:


> I've done that upon occasion. I'm moving towards it more often.
> 
> I usually call at 2:00 minutes after arrival. Trouble is, if they answer the phone, they often say something like, "I'll only be a minute." or "I'm on my way." or "I'm in the elevator." Really means four or five minutes.
> 
> ...


If it's a surge I'm less inclined to wait. When the timer hits 5:01, I cancel their ass and move to my next surge opportunity.


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> If it's a surge I'm less inclined to wait. When the timer hits 5:01, I cancel their ass and move my next surge opportunity.


I can see it both ways...not sure how I'd handle it with the guarantees in place. Does the cancellation fee increase with surge or stay as usual?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> I can see it both ways...not sure how I'd handle it with the guarantees in place. Does the cancellation fee increase with surge or stay as usual?


Stays same. $8.


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Stays same. $8.


If ours was $8, I'd probably cancel, take the fee, and move on to the next ping. Ours is $5, so $4 after Uber's oh-so-hard-earned commission!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> If ours was $8, I'd probably cancel, take the fee, and move on to the next ping. Ours is $5, so $4 after Uber's oh-so-hard-earned commission!


Ours is $10. Eight to the driver.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2014)

It's not fair to the drivers but i always give them a pass and wait even during surge! -i don't rate them low or anything,but allow them to know that waiting is not a game we don't play (if there they don't apologize 1st)...Karma is a thing we all live by and nobody is excluded..i waited for a group today. they had me waiting for quite a bit. this was a rowdy group of seven even though I only carry six.. I decided to take them anyway (keeping my patience and hospitality) even after the 20 minute wait!turns out there were some pretty cool guys, offered a tip, and ended up paying alot over in $$$ for as less than the time i waited!!so for you gun-ho drivers out there... go ahead and take off on the potential payout...I'll take it off your hands


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> It's not fair to the drivers but i always give them a pass and wait even during surge! -i don't rate them low or anything,but allow them to know that waiting is not a game we don't play (if there they don't apologize 1st)...Karma is a thing we all live by and nobody is excluded..i waited for a group today. they had me waiting for quite a bit. this was a rowdy group of seven even though I only carry six.. I decided to take them anyway (keeping my patience and hospitality) even after the 20 minute wait!turns out there were some pretty cool guys, offered a tip, and ended up paying alot over in $$$ for as less than the time i waited!!so for you gun-ho drivers out there... go ahead and take off on the potential payout...I'll take it off your hands


Taking a purely statistical POV, there is no payout. If you're not playing the TNC game from the perspective of statistics, you're not maximizing your profit.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> It's not fair to the drivers but i always give them a pass and wait even during surge! -i don't rate them low or anything,but allow them to know that waiting is not a game we don't play (if there they don't apologize 1st)...Karma is a thing we all live by and nobody is excluded..i waited for a group today. they had me waiting for quite a bit. this was a rowdy group of seven even though I only carry six.. I decided to take them anyway (keeping my patience and hospitality) even after the 20 minute wait!turns out there were some pretty cool guys, offered a tip, and ended up paying alot over in $$$ for as less than the time i waited!!so for you gun-ho drivers out there... go ahead and take off on the potential payout...I'll take it off your hands


Have to agree with Desert Driver! You got lucky. Expecting to get lucky is not a good strategy. On average, people who make you wait (20 f'ing minutes????) and expect you to do illegal things (overload passengers) will generally treat you like the disposable piece of toilet paper that you are pimped out as by Uber.

Seriously, you waited 20 minutes?????????????????????????????????? WTF??


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## UberMIMI (Mar 9, 2015)

how often do we get paid?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberMIMI said:


> how often do we get paid?


Weekly.
Thursday.


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## williamjohnson (Feb 26, 2015)

flyingdingo said:


> I'll take a $6 no-show fee over a $5 minimum fare any day. It's why I rarely call or text the dumbshit pax. I drive to the pin and wait. The pax can see me on the map sitting there waiting for them. If they are too ****ing entitled, lazy, or stupid to call or text, too bad.


ok so arrive then wait 5 minutes then after 5 minutes you hit rider no show? how often do you do that per week im gonna sstart doing that i hate calling then waiting 5 minutes people are so ****ing lame


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

williamjohnson said:


> ok so arrive then wait 5 minutes then after 5 minutes you hit rider no show? how often do you do that per week im gonna sstart doing that i hate calling then waiting 5 minutes people are so ****ing lame


I employ this tactic probably two or three times per weekend.


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## williamjohnson (Feb 26, 2015)

what iff i legit do it over 10 times, and time after press arrive each time.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

williamjohnson said:


> what iff i legit do it over 10 times, and time after press arrive each time.


What?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

J.J. Smith said:


> I've done that upon occasion. I'm moving towards it more often.
> 
> I usually call at 2:00 minutes after arrival. Trouble is, if they answer the phone, they often say something like, "I'll only be a minute." or "I'm on my way." or "I'm in the elevator." Really means four or five minutes.
> 
> ...


Who cares what they say? If they tell me they'll be out in a minute and it goes past the 5 since I arrived too bad. I will try to find out where they're going if i do tslk to them and if it's worth waiting longer. If they don't tell me then I'll cancel whether I talked to them or not assuming surge or guarantees are not a factor.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> It's not fair to the drivers but i always give them a pass and wait even during surge! -i don't rate them low or anything,but allow them to know that waiting is not a game we don't play (if there they don't apologize 1st)...Karma is a thing we all live by and nobody is excluded..i waited for a group today. they had me waiting for quite a bit. this was a rowdy group of seven even though I only carry six.. I decided to take them anyway (keeping my patience and hospitality) even after the 20 minute wait!turns out there were some pretty cool guys, offered a tip, and ended up paying alot over in $$$ for as less than the time i waited!!so for you gun-ho drivers out there... go ahead and take off on the potential payout...I'll take it off your hands


So you illegally carried an extra driver, got lucky (no ticket and a tip) and made the next driver who won't act illegally out to be an asshole and you're happy with that? Let's hope karma IS real.

9 times out of 10 those who make you wait you wish you hadn't because they are the worst pax.


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## Juber (Feb 3, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Cute metaphor. But keep in mind that when we cancel after 5 minutes, that we are playing entirely within the rules Uber has set. That's not to say Uber wouldn't skirt their own rules to shitcan a driver - because they will! But who gives a shit?


Action Jax has to say those things cuz he works as a right hand man to Travis. go back and read all his posts. He always sides with Uber and tries to persuade people not to do anything that would take advantage of the Uber system. #5thColumn


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Who cares what they say? If they tell me they'll be out in a minute and it goes past the 5 since I arrived too bad. I will try to find out where they're going if i do tslk to them and if it's worth waiting longer. If they don't tell me then I'll cancel whether I talked to them or not assuming surge or guarantees are not a factor.


Statistically speaking, there's no payoff in waiting, surge or not.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Who cares what they say? If they tell me they'll be out in a minute and it goes past the 5 since I arrived too bad. I will try to find out where they're going if i do tslk to them and if it's worth waiting longer. If they don't tell me then I'll cancel whether I talked to them or not assuming surge or guarantees are not a factor.


Statistically speaking, there's no payoff in waiting, surge or not.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Statistically speaking, there's no payoff in waiting, surge or not.


It depends. If I have a 4.6 surge (yes we do get them sometimes) at the bars in midtown houston at 2:20 am and I know the surge has already gone down to 3.6 and will continue down plus now we are saturated with drivers and I have sat there before through that surge and got NO pings statistically I should wait. My chances of getting another ping at that time is actually pretty slim and even if I do it will be less surge. But that's my area I know and that's part of this: knowing what to expect in your neck of the woods.

If I'm after a guarantee and I have my required rides and little chance of beating the guarantee then I'll wait until the guarantee period is up. If I need one more ride to get the guarantee and I'm unlikely to get another ping I'll wait. I'll also call and text and drive to them if the ping is off because I need that trip.

It all just depends. But no surge no guarantee I hope for the cancel unless I've been pulled out of busy areas (where it never surgrs) and am hoping the trip will take me back there. Mostly I don't have app on unless it's surging or I've been pulled out of town and want to get paid even the lousy rate to drive back.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> It depends. If I have a 4.6 surge (yes we do get them sometimes) at the bars in midtown houston at 2:20 am and I know the surge has already gone down to 3.6 and will continue down plus now we are saturated with drivers and I have sat there before through that surge and got NO pings statistically I should wait. My chances of getting another ping at that time is actually pretty slim and even if I do it will be less surge. But that's my area I know and that's part of this: knowing what to expect in your neck of the woods.
> 
> If I'm after a guarantee and I have my required rides and little chance of beating the guarantee then I'll wait until the guarantee period is up. If I need one more ride to get the guarantee and I'm unlikely to get another ping I'll wait. I'll also call and text and drive to them if the ping is off because I need that trip.
> 
> It all just depends. But no surge no guarantee I hope for the cancel unless I've been pulled out of busy areas (where it never surgrs) and am hoping the trip will take me back there. Mostly I don't have app on unless it's surging or I've been pulled out of town and want to get paid even the lousy rate to drive back.


While what you explained is mostly correct, you're taking a micro point of view, whereas I was taking a macro point of view. In the aggregate (macro view), the ER (expected return) of waiting more than five minutes is lower than canceling, collecting, and moving on. But like all experienced drivers you know how, when, and where to game the system and you're remaining profitable as a result. I always enjoy your comments, @Fuzzyelvis, because you put thought into them - unlike @scrurbscrud or @BlkGeep who are nothing more than overly-emotional, hysterical whiners.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> unlike @scrurbscrud or @BlkGeep who are nothing more than overly-emotional, hysterical whiners.


Spare me. Pointing out that you openly violate Uber's policies and promote other drivers to do the same in your ears is whining.


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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

In my opinion, I think the cancellation fee needs to be revamped entirely.

Let's say I'm 5 miles away when I get a ping. The moment I click on it, the clock should start on both mileage and time. In my market, we earn $1.20 per mile plus $0.20 per minute. If it takes me 10 minutes to arrive at the pickup location that's $6 in mileage plus $2.00 in time for a total of $8.00. Once I arrive, if the passenger isn't there then the standard 5 minute wait begins while still on the clock at the $0.20 per minute rate. If the rider is a no show or cancels, the driver gets to keep whatever fare has accrued until that point. If the rider does show, he or she gets a credit against the fare for their ride for whatever amount has accumulated.

If the driver cancels prior to arrival and waiting the required 5 minutes, all fees accrued to that point are cancelled too.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

TimFromMA said:


> In my opinion, I think the cancellation fee needs to be revamped entirely.
> 
> Let's say I'm 5 miles away when I get a ping. The moment I click on it, the clock should start on both mileage and time. In my market, we earn $1.20 per mil plus $0.20 per minute. If it takes me 10 minutes to arrive at the pickup location that's $6 in mileage plus $2.00 in time for a total of $8.00. Once I arrive, if the passenger isn't there then the standard 5 minute wait begins while still on the clock at the $0.2 per minute rate. If the rider is a no show or cancels, the driver gets to keep whatever fare has calculated until that point. If the rider does show, he or she gets a credit against the fare for their ride for whatever amount has accumulated.


It's one of the most glaring problems for TNC drivers. They will do a 5 mile trip, one way, 5 miles back to do a 1/2 mile trip netting the driver $2.40. Less than 24 cents a mile.

*It's donation work out of the drivers pockets.*


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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

It would also be handy if there was a visible timer that starts once we arrive at the pickup location so we know for sure when we can leave and still collect the fee.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Sorry, have to share. Had a funny one yesterday. I got someone who pinged and cancelled on me repeatedly last night. ping, accept, cancel. ping, accept, cancel. Wait 2 minutes, ping, accept cancel. Wait 2 more minutes, ping, accept, arrive, start (all really fast) then the cancel came back. Little darling got charged $10 fee and stopped harassing me. I have to figure he was trying to get a particular driver but I was closest. Felt good and so far it's still on my statement.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

TimFromMA said:


> In my opinion, I think the cancellation fee needs to be revamped entirely.
> 
> Let's say I'm 5 miles away when I get a ping. The moment I click on it, the clock should start on both mileage and time. In my market, we earn $1.20 per mile plus $0.20 per minute. If it takes me 10 minutes to arrive at the pickup location that's $6 in mileage plus $2.00 in time for a total of $8.00. Once I arrive, if the passenger isn't there then the standard 5 minute wait begins while still on the clock at the $0.20 per minute rate. If the rider is a no show or cancels, the driver gets to keep whatever fare has accrued until that point. If the rider does show, he or she gets a credit against the fare for their ride for whatever amount has accumulated.
> 
> If the driver cancels prior to arrival and waiting the required 5 minutes, all fees accrued to that point are cancelled too.


Love the idea. Issue is how do you market that to a consumer an support that since it's a variable. It would be almost as bad as trying to explain my cell phone bill.

I think to the key is keep it easy to the consumer. Either that or the app will prompt to say if you cancel you will be charged $x.xx and that is calculated based on mileage driven my the driver. But there should be some grace built in so it's less than 50% of the drive to the client while on route or 5 min after arrived and keep the $5 plus the drive mileage at 50%.

Just my way I would deal with cancels.


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2014)

I say it depends on your demographic


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Sorry, have to share. Had a funny one yesterday. I got someone who pinged and cancelled on me repeatedly last night. ping, accept, cancel. ping, accept, cancel. Wait 2 minutes, ping, accept cancel. Wait 2 more minutes, ping, accept, arrive, start (all really fast) then the cancel came back. Little darling got charged $10 fee and stopped harassing me. I have to figure he was trying to get a particular driver but I was closest. Felt good and so far it's still on my statement.


Love it!!!!!!!!!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

TimFromMA said:


> In my opinion, I think the cancellation fee needs to be revamped entirely.
> 
> Let's say I'm 5 miles away when I get a ping. The moment I click on it, the clock should start on both mileage and time. In my market, we earn $1.20 per mile plus $0.20 per minute. If it takes me 10 minutes to arrive at the pickup location that's $6 in mileage plus $2.00 in time for a total of $8.00. Once I arrive, if the passenger isn't there then the standard 5 minute wait begins while still on the clock at the $0.20 per minute rate. If the rider is a no show or cancels, the driver gets to keep whatever fare has accrued until that point. If the rider does show, he or she gets a credit against the fare for their ride for whatever amount has accumulated.
> 
> If the driver cancels prior to arrival and waiting the required 5 minutes, all fees accrued to that point are cancelled too.


See, but your plan takes the driver's well being into account. Uber will have none of that!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

TimFromMA said:


> It would also be handy if there was a visible timer that starts once we arrive at the pickup location so we know for sure when we can leave and still collect the fee.


I've thought so, too. But since that's not going to happen, I downloaded a stopwatch app this past weekend. I hit the Start button right after I hit Arrived. I also hit the Arrived button as soon as the pickup spot is within sight, which may be 10 to 20 seconds before I actually stop the car. The goal, of course, is to get the pax into the car ASAFP and get the meter running. We profit only when we roll. And hitting the Arrived button a few moments before actually arriving gives me a head start on the cancel option. This is a win-win. If the pax is there, they'll appreciate that you gave them a few moments advanced notice of your arrival, and you can make a quick pickup and be on your way rapidly. If the pax isn't there, they'll never know you got a head start on the cancel timer. So, a five-minute wait can be safely shaved down to 4:40. The thing to remember here, of course, is that we're IC's and no one's time is more valuable than yours.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Sorry, have to share. Had a funny one yesterday. I got someone who pinged and cancelled on me repeatedly last night. ping, accept, cancel. ping, accept, cancel. Wait 2 minutes, ping, accept cancel. Wait 2 more minutes, ping, accept, arrive, start (all really fast) then the cancel came back. Little darling got charged $10 fee and stopped harassing me. I have to figure he was trying to get a particular driver but I was closest. Felt good and so far it's still on my statement.


I've seen that happen, too. They must be trying to catch a specific driver. Assholes!


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> I've seen that happen, too. They must be trying to catch a specific driver. Assholes!


Yep....I report those to Uber or call them and tell them they will continue to get me and try Uber Black.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Yep....I report those to Uber or call them and tell them they will continue to get me and try Uber Black.


And just to make thing more fun, you should also tell the pax, "Quit canceling. I'm going to be your driver whether you like it or not. And, by the way, I have some week-old cod in the backseat."


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> And just to make thing more fun, you should also tell the pax, "Quit canceling. I'm going to be your driver whether you like it or not. And, by the way, I have some week-old cod in the backseat.


 No need to effect my rating. I would rater get them to order a black car and tell them it's the same as UberX for today only. Then get hit with a bill 5 times the amount.

You want to play...we have an app for that.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> No need to effect my rating. I would rater get them to order a black car and tell them it's the same as UberX for today only. Then get hit with a bill 5 times the amount.
> 
> You want to play...we have an app for that.


Excellent!


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## JohninTampa (Mar 26, 2015)

J.J. Smith said:


> I've done that upon occasion. I'm moving towards it more often.
> 
> I usually call at 2:00 minutes after arrival. Trouble is, if they answer the phone, they often say something like, "I'll only be a minute." or "I'm on my way." or "I'm in the elevator." Really means four or five minutes.
> 
> ...


You know?

Drivers with this attitude are the reason the regulators get involved. The purpose of this ride share is to get people from a-b, and if your goal is to feed off the no-shows, I hope this drives you out of this business and we can get back to offering people an affordable way to get somewhere.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

JohninTampa said:


> You know?
> 
> Drivers with this attitude are the reason the regulators get involved. The purpose of this ride share is to get people from a-b, and if your goal is to feed off the no-shows, I hope this drives you out of this business and we can get back to offering people an affordable way to get somewhere.


I hear you. We all want to do a good job. I think you will find most do. But on that note we are an on demand service. And waiting without being paid is not part of the strategy. If a rider gives the respect and comes on time there is never an issue. But waiting after 5 min I think is asking a lot from any driver. If they give a call to say they will be late and to start the meter. They can take as long as they like.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

JohninTampa said:


> You know?
> 
> Drivers with this attitude are the reason the regulators get involved. The purpose of this ride share is to get people from a-b, and if your goal is to feed off the no-shows, I hope this drives you out of this business and we can get back to offering people an affordable way to get somewhere.


Interesting POV. But let us not absolve the riders of their responsibility. After all, the rider called US, we did not call THEM. And let us also remember who is doing who the favor here.


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## JohninTampa (Mar 26, 2015)

No show is a no show. I get that. We are here to make money. Uber suggests text after 2 min and maybe call at 5. If you have made a reasonable effort to make contact then by all means, no show.
I won't pretend to try to tell anyone how to run their business, but to those that say, screw them, I'm not texting or calling, they know I am here, that is a reflection on all of us partners and on Uber.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

JohninTampa said:


> No show is a no show. I get that. We are here to make money. Uber suggests text after 2 min and maybe call at 5. If you have made a reasonable effort to make contact then by all means, no show.
> I won't pretend to try to tell anyone how to run their business, but to those that say, screw them, I'm not texting or calling, they know I am here, that is a reflection on all of us partners and on Uber.


Definitely will agree with you on that. If you don't make an attempt it's kind of a shady deal.


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## J.J. Smith (Sep 26, 2014)

JohninTampa said:


> You know?
> 
> Drivers with this attitude are the reason the regulators get involved. The purpose of this ride share is to get people from a-b, and if your goal is to feed off the no-shows, I hope this drives you out of this business and we can get back to offering people an affordable way to get somewhere.


In over 3000 rides, I have had 5 or 6 no-shows. No-shows have no respect for my time; that costs them.


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## headtheball (Jan 26, 2015)

J.J. Smith said:


> In over 3000 rides, I have had 5 or 6 no-shows. No-shows have no respect for my time; that costs them.


I have this many every week.

You may need to check your timing device.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

headtheball said:


> I have this many every week.
> 
> You may need to check your timing device.


7 paid no shows in a day is my record. Drive to pin, wait, call/text, no show right after time limit, go offline, get paid.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

JohninTampa said:


> No show is a no show. I get that. We are here to make money. Uber suggests text after 2 min and maybe call at 5. If you have made a reasonable effort to make contact then by all means, no show.
> I won't pretend to try to tell anyone how to run their business, but to those that say, screw them, I'm not texting or calling, they know I am here, that is a reflection on all of us partners and on Uber.


I send an auto-text right after I accept the ping in which I introduce myself, ask them to put in a destination, tell them I'm looking forward to meeting them, and let them know I'll be there in X minutes. Isn't that enough notice? So, when I hit the ARRIVE button I also start my stopwatch app.


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

So tonight I was the dick (and possibly a hypocrite)! My three most recent "fares" show as "Cancelled by Driver"...all paid out for No Show. Not a normal for me, but these shitbirds have me defeated for tonight. Driver app 'off'!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

flyingdingo said:


> I got an email today from Uber. Here is the exchange:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> ...


Riiight, wait 10 minutes. On a 20 trip shift, if all pax made the driver wait 10 minutes that would be 200 minutes or 3 hours 20 mins parked on a street somewhere, flashers on, unpaid. 3 hours 20 minutes per day working for no pay. Not going to happen. F U, Uber!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Sorry, have to share. Had a funny one yesterday. I got someone who pinged and cancelled on me repeatedly last night. ping, accept, cancel. ping, accept, cancel. Wait 2 minutes, ping, accept cancel. Wait 2 more minutes, ping, accept, arrive, start (all really fast) then the cancel came back. Little darling got charged $10 fee and stopped harassing me. I have to figure he was trying to get a particular driver but I was closest. Felt good and so far it's still on my statement.


I like immediate requests and cancels during guarantee times because they help my acceptance rate and may allow me to ignore a ping later on. I never move immediately because so many people do that. Get at least a couple a night.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> So tonight I was the dick (and possibly a hypocrite)! My three most recent "fares" show as "Cancelled by Driver"...all paid out for No Show. Not a normal for me, but these shitbirds have me defeated for tonight. Driver app 'off'!


Sometimes a bloke's gotta do what a bloke's gotta do. On the bright side, you didn't allow yourself to be taken advantage of and you were compensated for your time. You achieved ABC - Always Be Compensated. Well done! I'm proud of you. (If the was a thumbs up emoticon available I would place two of them right here!)


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## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

DCinATL said:


> OK...so wait 5 minutes and start the trip? If I do that, I can't cancel the ride as a rider no show.


You cancel after 5...not start


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

ReviTULize said:


> You cancel after 5...not start


I downloaded a stopwatch app on my phone and I start the stopwatch right after I hit the ARRIVED button. And when the stopwatch hits 5:01, I cancel and I'm on my way to the next fare. On average I do this once or twice each weekend, depending upon how many hours I put in.


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

Lately, after I cancel as "no show", I stay at the pin location. xl vehicles are not so plentiful here, on the weekends. it was difficult to get far enough away to avoid pings from the same party anyway. I have noticed much better attitudes when they went hiding behind thier phone. 
Xl pings are farther away, as a rule, and the no show fee doesn't cover costs to get there, wait 5, and move back to my waiting spot.

The reason I started this was the guarentee's, but those didn't work out as well as just driving, for me, on xl only. I never liked avoiding phone calls or texts, anyways. Even the drunk pax aren't so obnoxious, face to face. Work it out with me...or call another car.


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## JohninTampa (Mar 26, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> I send an auto-text right after I accept the ping in which I introduce myself, ask them to put in a destination, tell them I'm looking forward to meeting them, and let them know I'll be there in X minutes. Isn't that enough notice? So, when I hit the ARRIVE button I also start my stopwatch app.


I would agree that this is certainly enough notice, and if they don't respond, there is no reason why you should stick around after 5 minutes. playing games to seek out no shows versus riders is a different story.


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## Western Warrior (Jan 20, 2015)

5 min wait is too long. I've noticed that the pax will sometimes cancel into the 4th min of waiting and I'm SOL. So now they get 2 min at the most. I leave, turn on Lyft app and make them cancel when they realize I'm not coming back.


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## JohninTampa (Mar 26, 2015)

Do what you want. Do you think they won't report you to Uber? Not every one, but it won't take too many saying the same thing
Having said that, agree that waiting 5 min with no contact stinks, but I can take it or leave it. The rules are clear and I didn't see where it was an option to make my own.
Drivers will find loop holes as riders will also. I have been told by riders that they will cancel as drivers are on the way and see a closer driver pop up. It stinks, but it happens


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## flyingdingo (Feb 5, 2015)

JohninTampa said:


> Do what you want. Do you think they won't report you to Uber? Not every one, but it won't take too many saying the same thing
> Having said that, agree that waiting 5 min with no contact stinks, but I can take it or leave it. The rules are clear and I didn't see where it was an option to make my own.
> Drivers will find loop holes as riders will also. I have been told by riders that they will cancel as drivers are on the way and see a closer driver pop up. It stinks, but it happens


**** em. Let them report. We're not slaves and not Uber employees. Unless they want to pay benefits.


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## geniusboy91 (Sep 28, 2014)

Do these no-show $4 charges get paid to us drivers automatically if you wait at the pin for 5 minutes and then cancel? I do a lot of drunk college kids that take forever sometimes.
@Desert Driver Do you have an app that auto-sends those texts you mentioned or do you do it manually?


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