# Lyft charges rider $5 if they cancel under 5 minutes. Driver gets $0



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

I was surprised to see that Lyft charges the rider if they cancel soon after the ride is accepted, and surprised they do not share the fee. Not sure if this was under or slightly over two minutes.

This was a ride added to the queue while I was on another ride. I didn't want the ride but I couldn't decline it in time, and was unable to cancel so I called the pax and had them cancel and that there would be no charge since little time had passed. They called me back stating that Lyft was charging them $5 to cancel.


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

The word of a pax is useless.


----------



## EagleWolfSparrow (Aug 7, 2021)

_Tron_ said:


> I was surprised to see that Lyft charges the rider if they cancel soon after the ride is accepted, and surprised they do not share the fee. Not sure if this was under or slightly over two minutes.
> 
> This was a ride added to the queue while I was on another ride. I didn't want the ride but I couldn't decline it in time, and was unable to cancel so I called the pax and had them cancel and that there would be no charge since little time had passed. They called me back stating that Lyft was charging them $5 to cancel.
> 
> View attachment 647860


I got paid 2$ for Pax that put wrong pin, I was waiting there and drove there..
What a waste of time/


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> I was surprised to see that Lyft charges the rider if they cancel soon after the ride is accepted, and surprised they do not share the fee.


I'm more than a little surprised that this surprised you.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

I’m pretty sure contacting the pax and asking them to cancel because you don’t want to take the cancel rating but can and most certainly has led to drivers getting deactivated. It’s a pretty big no no that’s easy for Lyft to prove.

Would not recommend doing this anymore in the future, as that pax definitely complained to Lyft about it, and told them you wanted them to cancel on their end.


----------



## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

Sounds like another opportunity for lawyers to take Lyft to arbitration for wage theft.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Sounds like another opportunity for lawyers to take Lyft to arbitration for wage theft.


And then Lyft says to the judge, “Your honor, we move for dismissal and for the driver to pay our legal fees. Here’s the recorded phone call of the driver calling the passenger and telling the passenger to cancel their ride request. The driver tried to circumvent their own cancellation rating, and even misinformed the passenger that Lyft would not charge them a cancel fee.”

And the judge says, “Dismissal granted. Driver clearly violated their contract and caused a passenger to pay a fee they should not have had to pay. Also rule that driver pays Lyft’s….uh, $5,000/hour attorneys fees in defending this frivolous lawsuit.”


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> and was unable to cancel


Why were you unable to cancel?


----------



## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

UberChiefPIT said:


> And then Lyft says to the judge, “Your honor, we move for dismissal and for the driver to pay our legal fees. Here’s the recorded phone call of the driver calling the passenger and telling the passenger to cancel their ride request. The driver tried to circumvent their own cancellation rating, and even misinformed the passenger that Lyft would not charge them a cancel fee.”
> 
> And the judge says, “Dismissal granted. Driver clearly violated their contract and caused a passenger to pay a fee they should not have had to pay. Also rule that driver pays Lyft’s….uh, $5,000/hour attorneys fees in defending this frivolous lawsuit.”


Lawyers are stacking arbitration cases like class action suits. TNCs have to pay for each case to be heard by arbitrators. Also, I never call and ask passengers to cancel and they are not allowed to record the conversations between passengers and drivers.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

nosurgenodrive said:


> and they are not allowed to record the conversations between passengers and drivers.


Pffft they weren't allowed to operate in most cities for years yet they did.

Uber & Lyft are not exactly know for playing by the rules.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Lawyers are stacking arbitration cases like class action suits. TNCs have to pay for each case to be heard by arbitrators. Also, I never call and ask passengers to cancel and they are not allowed to record the conversations between passengers and drivers.


You bonehead: the OP literally wrote that he called the pax and asked them to cancel it.

As well, every time you push the call passenger button, those calls are most definitely recorded by Lyft. You’d be a fool to think they aren’t.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Boca Ratman said:


> Pffft they were allowed to operate in most cities for years yet they did.
> 
> Uber & Lyft are not exactly know for playing by the rules.


Yes, I guarantee when you use the app “call pax” button, those calls are recorded, as the phone number you are calling actually belongs to Uber/Lyft, and our contract states that we agree to allow Uber/Lyft to monitor and/record all communications through the app.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Lawyers are stacking arbitration cases like class action suits. TNCs have to pay for each case to be heard by arbitrators. Also, I never call and ask passengers to cancel and they are not allowed to record the conversations between passengers and drivers.


I think they updated that in one of the recent agreements. Something about we have to pay our portion for the process to begin. I think it's like 1500.

I don't know exactly how recording of the calls work but I know here in Colorado, Uber announced that either the driver or the passenger can voice record during rides. If drivers choose to do it Uber is going to inform the passenger of the recording but apparently that doesn't work both ways because you never said anything about informing the driver the passenger was going to be recording


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> I think they updated that in one of the recent agreements. Something about we have to pay our portion for the process to begin. I think it's like 1500.
> 
> I don't know exactly how recording of the calls work but I know here in Colorado, Uber announced that either the driver or the passenger can voice record during rides. If drivers choose to do it Uber is going to inform the passenger of the recording but apparently that doesn't work both ways because you never said anything about informing the driver the passenger was going to be recording


That’s with your own equipment in your car.

The app user agreements definitely states that all communications through the app are monitored and recorded. Thus, when you push the button to call pax through the app, it calls a phone number belonging to Uber or lyft, and it’s “communicating through the app.”


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

UberChiefPIT said:


> That’s with your own equipment in your car.
> 
> The app user agreements definitely states that all communications through the app are monitored and recorded. Thus, when you push the button to call pax through the app, it calls a phone number belonging to Uber or lyft, and it’s “communicating through the app.”


Yeah this was through the app. There was supposed to be some button they could hit or something. They claim do some safety feature. Of course I've heard about the big announcement but nothing since then



_Tron_ said:


> I was surprised to see that Lyft charges the rider if they cancel soon after the ride is accepted, and surprised they do not share the fee. Not sure if this was under or slightly over two minutes.
> 
> This was a ride added to the queue while I was on another ride. I didn't want the ride but I couldn't decline it in time, and was unable to cancel so I called the pax and had them cancel and that there would be no charge since little time had passed. They called me back stating that Lyft was charging them $5 to cancel.
> 
> View attachment 647860


This is because they charge the passenger if the passenger cancels more than 2 minutes after ordering. They only pay you if a cancellation occurs more than 2 minutes after you accepting it or more than 2 minutes after ending the current ride you were on because that's when the official acceptance occurs


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

_Tron_ said:


> I was surprised to see that Lyft charges the rider if they cancel soon after the ride is accepted, and surprised they do not share the fee. Not sure if this was under or slightly over two minutes.
> 
> This was a ride added to the queue while I was on another ride. I didn't want the ride but I couldn't decline it in time, and was unable to cancel so I called the pax and had them cancel and that there would be no charge since little time had passed. They called me back stating that Lyft was charging them $5 to cancel.
> 
> View attachment 647860


Sickening !
Shame on you Lyft !
These discoveries annoy me so much !


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Sickening !
> Shame on you Lyft !
> These discoveries annoy me so much !


The driver coaxed the pax into cancelling, and that is what caused the fee. Why the heck should the driver earn a cancellation fee for clearly violating the T&C?


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Boca Ratman said:


> Why were you unable to cancel?


I was too close to the pax. I _think_. I just literally couldn't bring up the menu for cancelling. It was not available. I have seen that happen once before. Too close to pax so no cancel menu. As I think about it now, if I had hit ARRIVE, which _had_ popped up, I then could have cancelled.

In anticipation of your next question, "Tron, if you were so close why the hell didn't you take the ride?" it was just timing. It was dinner rush hour and I had _just_ stacked an Uber pickup for my next ride. Just as I was dropping off my Lyft rider the stacked Lyft ping hit. By the time I could get to the phone the decline timer had run out. Turns out the ping had come from a nearby restaurant.



Daisey77 said:


> This is because they charge the passenger if the passenger cancels more than 2 minutes after ordering. They only pay you if a cancellation occurs more than 2 minutes after you accepting it or more than 2 minutes after ending the current ride you were on because that's when the official acceptance occurs


I had to read what you wrote twice. So this policy is accounting for the lag between when the rider hits request, and the driver accepts the ride. Have I got that right? Not having deeply thought about it, I would have assumed the pax has two minutes from the time the ride is accepted. Interesting.


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Boca Ratman said:


> I'm more than a little surprised that this surprised you.


What I'm _not_ surprised at is your comment. 

;>


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Also, I never call and ask passengers to cancel...


Agreed. I "never" do either. Made an exception only because I could not cancel on my end. I know how much customers appreciate it when they are informed, and don't have to stand around waiting for a car that never shows. The lady was relieved that I had called.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> The driver coaxed the pax into cancelling, and that is what caused the fee. Why the heck should the driver earn a cancellation fee for clearly violating the T&C?


Do you really think the system knew the driver asked the pax to cancel? 

Out of my last 5 pax cancels, all legit pax cancels, all after 2 minutes as I was headed to them, I got paid for one. I contested each and only one did I get paid. 

One, they told me I wasn't in my way to thr pickup. I was at the location waiting. Much back and forth until I gave up. 

One they told me I was going to make the eta. The they had the cancel time 10 minutes, before the request time, no lie. The pax canceled, according to lyft, 10 minutes before they requested the ride. 

5 cancels X 6.00 = 30.00
30.00-4.00=26.00 

I spent probably an hour driving to and communicating to get paid. 

They know we're not going to waste too much time on it. That's why they use the chat. So we have to choose to log off, pull over & waste time to communicate with them.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> What I'm _not_ surprised at is your comment.


Why is that? 




_Tron_ said:


> I could not cancel on my end.


Why couldn't you cancel? 
I've never heard of a driver not being able to cancel


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Boca Ratman said:


> Do you really think the system knew the driver asked the pax to cancel?


Yes. OP said he did, and he did it on a recorded phone line. All the pax has to do is complain to Lyft, and the OP would be caught.

Be smarter, people. Don’t do this stuff.


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Boca Ratman said:


> Why is that?


I'm kidding with you. Jut as I assumed you were kidding with me.



Boca Ratman said:


> Why couldn't you cancel?
> I've never heard of a driver not being able to cancel


Didn't I explain above?


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> Didn't I explain above?


Ah. Yes I missed it


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Boca Ratman said:


> Ah. Yes I missed it


Like where you missed that he admitted to calling the pax and telling them to cancel because he didn't want to do the ride? That part, before you replied to me asking how the algo will be able to know that he called the pax?


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Boca Ratman said:


> Do you really think the system knew the driver asked the pax to cancel?


Way back when I was new, I got a Nastygram from Lyft because I would accept everything (I said I was new 🤷‍♂️) and, as a courtesy, let riders know it'd be 15-20 minutes because y'all know how Lyft is.

After a few cancels I got the generic passive-aggressive email from Lyft saying too many riders were canceling after I called and my account was in jeopardy blah blah blah.

Mind you this wasn't me trying to get them to cancel. I was trying to provide good service (like I said newbie mistake).

Pretty sure The Algorithm saw me call then they canceled and assumed the worst.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

New2This said:


> Way back when I was new, I got a Nastygram from Lyft because I would accept everything (I said I was new 🤷‍♂️) and, as a courtesy, let riders know it'd be 15-20 minutes because y'all know how Lyft is.
> 
> After a few cancels I got the generic passive-aggressive email from Lyft saying too many riders were canceling after I called and my account was in jeopardy blah blah blah.
> 
> ...


Ya. The app KNOWS when we push that button to call, and the rider cancels shortly after.

People here need to watch the movie "Margin Call."

There's a good quote in there, along the lines of, "So you're a rocket scientist?"..."It's all just numbers. Rockets and stocks. And pardon me for saying, but the money here is considerably more attractive."

The point is: really effing smart math guys don't work for NASA anymore; they work for companies that use the exact same math algorithms to help billion dollar companies save millions of dollars by identifying math anomalies that occur thousands of times a day where a simple decimal point change absolves the company from any losses.

Google and Amazon and even Uber/Lyft AI programs know each and every one of us better than we know ourselves. If something happens out of the ordinary in a trip, the algo knows it. And it figures out if a pattern occurs where one specific driver is getting the same "out of the ordinary" occurrences more than the average driver in their market.

People wonder why they can turn on the app from their home and see huge surges in nearby areas of their city, so they get in their cars and drive that direction, only to see the magic bubble dissipate the surges. This is the simplest level of the algo knowing YOU and knowing how to manipulate drivers.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> I've never heard of a driver not being able to cancel


I have had it happened twice on lyft. Mine flat out said oh, you're not able to cancel this ride or you're not allowed to cancel this ride. this was probably four or five years ago though. I'll see if I can find a screenshot cuz now I'm curious what it said exactly


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

New2This said:


> Way back when I was new, I got a Nastygram from Lyft because I would accept everything (I said I was new 🤷‍♂️) and, as a courtesy, let riders know it'd be 15-20 minutes because y'all know how Lyft is.
> 
> After a few cancels I got the generic passive-aggressive email from Lyft saying too many riders were canceling after I called and my account was in jeopardy blah blah blah.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you're right. I lost airport "privileges" years ago for some time on uber because of a few cancels preceded by phone calls.

People calling for destinations was a big problem and that's how uber dealt with it. 

I don't know why I assumed either company would change this type behavior, I should know better. 
However, I don't think one call / pax cancel would trigger anything. No one is listening in to our calls individually. I think pattern of calling /pax cancels would send up some red flags. 

I don't remember the specifics of my ban but I wasn't calling for destinations. I was avoiding pool rides and asking them to cancel.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> I was surprised to see that Lyft charges the rider if they cancel soon after the ride is accepted, and surprised they do not share the fee. Not sure if this was under or slightly over two minutes.
> 
> This was a ride added to the queue while I was on another ride. I didn't want the ride but I couldn't decline it in time, and was unable to cancel so I called the pax and had them cancel and that there would be no charge since little time had passed. They called me back stating that Lyft was charging them $5 to cancel.
> 
> View attachment 647860


My question is WTF are you still driving for that POS outfit? 

They've somehow, someway done the impossible, they're WORSE than Uber.

Thank about that for a minute.


----------



## Sam D (May 15, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> I was surprised to see that Lyft charges the rider if they cancel soon after the ride is accepted, and surprised they do not share the fee. Not sure if this was under or slightly over two minutes.
> 
> This was a ride added to the queue while I was on another ride. I didn't want the ride but I couldn't decline it in time, and was unable to cancel so I called the pax and had them cancel and that there would be no charge since little time had passed. They called me back stating that Lyft was charging them $5 to cancel.
> 
> View attachment 647860



lyft ia an immoral shit company i occasional drive with thatnokatform if uber is slow other wise the people who run it are scum and out of to h worse than uber


----------



## Sam D (May 15, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> My question is WTF are you still driving for that POS outfit?
> 
> They've somehow, someway done the impossible, they're WORSE than Uber.
> 
> Thank about that for a minute.



i was thinking the same 🤛🤜


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> My question is WTF are you still driving for that POS outfit?
> 
> They've somehow, someway done the impossible, they're WORSE than Uber.
> 
> Thank about that for a minute.


That is exactly what I tell people. They are way worse than Uber ever was. For a company to make Uber look good . . . that says alot


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> My question is WTF are you still driving for that POS outfit?


For now, they are my "useful idiots". They pay about the same as Uber in my locale, and with it being as slow as it is right now Lyft rides pad my daily income. And I am a firm believer in being active on two driving platforms (I won't deliver food).

On the other hand I had to put up with Lyft throwing up notices all day about my upcoming annual vehicle inspection requirement. Notices that must be acknowledged every time. These idiots don't seem to understand that a driver has zero incentive to renew their inspection until the *last possible day* since they are not pro-rated. I finally scheduled a fake appointment to shut the app up but it still kept nagging. What morons.


----------



## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Lawyers are stacking arbitration cases like class action suits. TNCs have to pay for each case to be heard by arbitrators. Also, I never call and ask passengers to cancel and they are not allowed to record the conversations between passengers and drivers.


They literally know what is going on in the car. They have secret riders and seeing if you proc certain key words. They are literally listening to you talk to riders. I tell people do not get into any conversations with passengers with any no no words.


----------



## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> I was surprised to see that Lyft charges the rider if they cancel soon after the ride is accepted, and surprised they do not share the fee. Not sure if this was under or slightly over two minutes.
> 
> This was a ride added to the queue while I was on another ride. I didn't want the ride but I couldn't decline it in time, and was unable to cancel so I called the pax and had them cancel and that there would be no charge since little time had passed. They called me back stating that Lyft was charging them $5 to cancel.
> 
> View attachment 647860


Uber does the same thing. I ordered an Uber for my wife and I the last time we went on a cruise. The Uber Driver accepted the ride but did not move at all and he was 20 minutes away. I canceled and ordered a different Uber. Uber charged me a $7 cancellation fee. I complained to support and got my $7 back but the main point is that they did charge me $7 and since the driver was 20 minutes away I’m sure he didn’t get any of the cancellation fee because I know that the Driver has to be at the pickup location and then the driver has to wait 5 minutes to collect a fee. Uber straight up charged me a cancellation fee they were gonna keep all to themselves! And I suspect that they do this an awful lot.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

New2This said:


> Way back when I was new, I got a Nastygram from Lyft because I would accept everything (I said I was new 🤷‍♂️) and, as a courtesy, let riders know it'd be 15-20 minutes because y'all know how Lyft is.
> 
> After a few cancels I got the generic passive-aggressive email from Lyft saying too many riders were canceling after I called and my account was in jeopardy blah blah blah.
> 
> ...


I got a few of these, too, which led me to change my policy and to reject all communication with or from Lyft pax pre-pickup. If that's the way Lyft prefers it, it's not a problem.


----------



## Chauffeur_James (Dec 12, 2014)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Lawyers are stacking arbitration cases like class action suits. TNCs have to pay for each case to be heard by arbitrators. Also, I never call and ask passengers to cancel and they are not allowed to record the conversations between passengers and drivers.


This is right from their website, so I'm not sure why you think Lyft doesn't record conversations. It's in both the passenger and rider TOS, so a call recording would be allowed.


----------



## LehighVince (May 5, 2021)

_Tron_ said:


> I was surprised to see that Lyft charges the rider if they cancel soon after the ride is accepted, and surprised they do not share the fee. Not sure if this was under or slightly over two minutes.
> 
> This was a ride added to the queue while I was on another ride. I didn't want the ride but I couldn't decline it in time, and was unable to cancel so I called the pax and had them cancel and that there would be no charge since little time had passed. They called me back stating that Lyft was charging them $5 to cancel.
> 
> View attachment 647860


Yes this sucks, I've changed direction, gotten onto a highway or even drove a few minutes to have a ride cancel and get nothing! Thats just wrong


----------



## Cmmf (10 mo ago)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Lawyers are stacking arbitration cases like class action suits. TNCs have to pay for each case to be heard by arbitrators. Also, I never call and ask passengers to cancel and they are not allowed to record the conversations between passengers and drivers.


----------



## Cmmf (10 mo ago)

Sometimes when I answer a call from the pax, the message literally says it’s being recorded for quality assurance. What are you talking about?


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Chauffeur_James said:


> This is right from their website, so I'm not sure why you think Lyft doesn't record conversations. It's in both the passenger and rider TOS, so a call recording would be allowed.
> View attachment 648358


And it’s perfectly legal. I’ve tried to tell people this.

Lyft/Uber didn’t move away from letting us see PAX phone numbers in order to protect our/pax privacy.

No, they did it to force us to communicate thru the app via app messages and phone numbers owned by Uber/Lyft, in order to protect Uber/Lyft from lawsuits.

EVERYTHING we say and do via the app is recorded. Including the phone calls.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Cmmf said:


> Sometimes when I answer a call from the pax, the message literally says it’s being recorded for quality assurance. What are you talking about?


This is why I never answer pax calls and never call them.

Aside from phone calls being completely unnecessary to do this gig, it’s just that prefer not to have anything recorded that can be taken out of context should a lawyer choose to do so.


----------

