# Uber said to use “sophisticated” software to defraud drivers, passengers



## Ant-Man (Nov 22, 2017)

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...cated-software-to-defraud-drivers-passengers/
*Class action says Uber's "methodical scheme" manipulates rider fares, driver pay.*
*
DAVID KRAVETS - 4/6/2017, 10:54 AM









Uber has devised a "clever and sophisticated" scheme in which it manipulates navigation data used to determine "upfront" rider fare prices while secretly short-changing the driver, according to a proposed class-action lawsuit against the ride-hailing app.

When a rider uses Uber's app to hail a ride, the fare the app immediately shows to the passenger is based on a slower and longer route compared to the one displayed to the driver. The software displays a quicker, shorter route for the driver. But the rider pays the higher fee, and the driver's commission is paid from the cheaper, faster route, according to the lawsuit.*

"Specifically, the Uber Defendants deliberately manipulated the navigation data used in determining the fare amount paid by its users and the amount reported and paid to its drivers," according to the suit filed in federal court in Los Angeles. Lawyers representing a Los Angeles driver for Uber, Sophano Van, said the programming was "shocking, "methodical," and "extensive."

The suit (PDF), which labeled the implementation of Uber's technology as a "well-planned scheme to deceive drivers and users," is one of a number of lawsuits targeting the San Francisco-based company. The suits range from disputes over drivers' employment rights to sex discrimination to trade-secrets theft. Just weeks ago, Uber's CEO, Travis Kalanick, declared that he needed "leadership help."

This latest lawsuit claims that Uber implemented the so-called "upfront" pricing scheme in September and informed drivers that fares are calculated on a per-mile and per-minute charge for the estimated distance and time of a ride. "However, the software that calculates the upfront price that is displayed and charged to the Users calculates the expected distance and time utilizing a route that is often longer in both distance and time to the one displayed in the driver's application," according to the suit.

*Software manipulation*
In the end, the rider pays a higher fee because the software calculates a longer route and displays that to the passenger. Yet the driver is paid a lower rate based on a quicker route, according to the suit. Uber keeps "the difference charged to the User and the fare reported to the driver, in addition to the service fee and booking fee disclosed to drivers," according to the suit.

The manipulation of prices between the amount charged to Users and the amount reported to drivers is clever and sophisticated. The software utilized in determining the upfront price is specifically designed to provide a route distance and time estimate based on traffic conditions and other variables but not to determine the shortest/quickest reasonable route based on those conditions. Meanwhile, the software utilized in the driver's application, which navigates the drivers to the User's destination, utilizes traffic conditions and other variables to provide the driver with a more efficient, shorter, or quicker route to the User's destination, resulting in a lower fare payout to the driver.

The suit claims breach of contract, unjust enrichment, fraud, and unfair competition. The suit seeks back pay and legal fees, and it demands a halt to "the unlawful, deceptive, fraudulent, and unfair business practices."

Uber declined comment.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Hopefully it goes somewhere.


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## New Uber (Mar 21, 2017)

Here is Orlando Uber Short-payed the tolls for weeks. And they turned off surge even though it was busy


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Finally. And seriously I just can't wait till there's a lawsuit that tackles their software which guesses based on past experience how much a pax is likely willing to pay and presents that as the cost.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

This is similar to the one that was filed, I think, in North Carolina.

However, I'm not sure if they are assuming the upfront pricing scheme is based on a higher route or if they know that to be true. They may not realize that Uber is simply just flatly charging a different amount instead of thinking it is based on time and distance, which the upfront pricing scheme can't be based on time and distance since pool trips are always substantially less than what it would be, if it was based on time and distance.


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## Ant-Man (Nov 22, 2017)

For those who haven't done so yet, calibrate your "Days Since Last Uber Scandal" clock by adding two decimal places.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Wonkytonk said:


> Finally. And seriously I just can't wait till there's a lawsuit that tackles their software which guesses based on past experience how much a pax is likely willing to pay and presents that as the cost.


 There is nothing illegal about that. You don't have to take the ride if you don't want to pay what they want you to pay


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Ant-Man said:


> Just weeks ago, Uber's CEO, Travis Kalanick, declared that he needed "leadership help."


This is old news


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## Ant-Man (Nov 22, 2017)

Mista T said:


> This is old news


Yeah I was wondering what was up with that whole passage as well. Ars Technica is usually journalisticly sound.



heynow321 said:


> There is nothing illegal about that. You don't have to take the ride if you don't want to pay what they want you to pay


That part, no. However, the part where they charge more depending on pax's zip code is textbook price gouging.


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## KD_LA (Aug 16, 2017)

Ant-Man said:


> *Class action says Uber's "methodical scheme" manipulates rider fares, driver pay.*


That's impossible, they're on instruments!


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

heynow321 said:


> There is nothing illegal about that. You don't have to take the ride if you don't want to pay what they want you to pay


Illegal or not, word gets out about it in a large way and Uber is done, because let's face it it's a shitty thing to do to people and no one will think otherwise!


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## Ant-Man (Nov 22, 2017)

Wonkytonk said:


> Illegal or not, word gets out about it in a large way and Uber is done, because let's face it it's a shitty thing to do to people and no one will think otherwise!


Have your pax change destination a few times so pricing reverts to pre-upfront pricing scheme (assuming you aren't badly long hauling them and killing any savings). Word will spread pretty quick.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Ant-Man said:


> Have your pax change destination a few times so pricing reverts to pre-upfront pricing scheme (assuming you aren't badly long hauling them and killing any savings). Word will spread pretty quick.


 That's what I do I explain how to beat the system to anyone who will listen


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## Ant-Man (Nov 22, 2017)

I've spent the past few hours compiling a detailed list of absolutely everyone in the world surprised by this news:


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

"Sophisticated".

There is nothing sophisticated about uber.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> "Sophisticated".
> 
> There is nothing sophisticated about uber.


Sure there is! I have never been screwed in such a sophisticated manner before. I think I'm going to add to my tinder profile that I "screw like uber!"


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

heynow321 said:


> Sure there is! I have never been screwed in such a sophisticated manner before. I think I'm going to add to my tinder profile that I "screw like uber!"


Triple bag it cause I heard it has been around the block a few times...


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Ant-Man said:


> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...cated-software-to-defraud-drivers-passengers/
> *Class action says Uber's "methodical scheme" manipulates rider fares, driver pay.*
> *
> DAVID KRAVETS - 4/6/2017, 10:54 AM
> ...


Uber NEVVER TIRES OF CHEATING !

Cheating drivers.

Cheating passengers

Bilking investors.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Ant-Man said:


> Have your pax change destination a few times so pricing reverts to pre-upfront pricing scheme (assuming you aren't badly long hauling them and killing any savings). Word will spread pretty quick.


Now you know why I Longhaul whenever possible.

I explain WHILE Longhauling them how Uber's fornicating them like a drunk sorority girl at Cowboys Training Camp with Upfront Pricing, Uber charging them based on their purchase history and that if they're going from an affluent area they'll pay more than the same trip in an economically depressed area. Usually they're pissed, and many say they thought something was hinky.

I tell them how to counteract it. If they're planning a long trip, when requesting trip, put in destination a half mile away for minimum fare. Then once trip starts, change destination to where they want to go. It then charges them the old time/distance formula.

I get good tips doing this by saying "if you want a tip on saving money on your next Uber".

Isn't this article a year old?


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

heynow321 said:


> There is nothing illegal about that. You don't have to take the ride if you don't want to pay what they want you to pay


You can't advertise one rate and then charge another


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Rat said:


> You can't advertise one rate and then charge another


Uber can

" technology company"

They r speshul.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

I'm still waiting for my $6 payout from the last lawsuit run by Liss-Riordan. I've already selected the McValue menu items I will buy with my share of the bounty, but still no money has been received. So it's kinda difficult to get excited about this newer one - during the year since this article came out I've heard nothing else about this particular suit.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Ant-Man said:


> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...cated-software-to-defraud-drivers-passengers/
> *Class action says Uber's "methodical scheme" manipulates rider fares, driver pay.*
> *
> DAVID KRAVETS - 4/6/2017, 10:54 AM
> ...


Long haul it baby!!!!


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

This is why I always go the long way whenever there's a choice of routes. I've even discovered Long-cuts that add miles but don't increase the rider fare


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

The article cited is more than a year old. Any updates?


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## Nonya busy (May 18, 2017)

Ant-Man said:


> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...cated-software-to-defraud-drivers-passengers/
> *Class action says Uber's "methodical scheme" manipulates rider fares, driver pay.*
> *
> DAVID KRAVETS - 4/6/2017, 10:54 AM
> ...


I already knew that. Didn't need an article to tell me that. But thanks for posting.


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## Ant-Man (Nov 22, 2017)

Friendly Jack said:


> The article cited is more than a year old. Any updates?


No but most drivers still aren't aware that the app is not a free market representation. At all. Most still believe surge is based on supply and demand. Need to keep hammering at these facts that are all around us yet are difficult for some to reconcile.


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

Here in Los Angeles , we long haul, so that we get most of the money, and Uber goes in the negative. My friend did a $180 trip for 37 miles on a 2.5x, and Uber gave him $80. They're only supposed to take 20% from him.

My other friend did the same trip, and Uber charged the pax $211, and they have gave him $50.


A lot of my friends were deactivated for calling up support, and complaining about how Uber ripped them off . I also called several times, and they adjusted the fare.


They told me that they charge the paxes two different amounts. Here they'll charge $80 to go 12 miles on 1.9x surge, and the driver will get $34.


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## socallaoc (Dec 23, 2017)

Ant-Man said:


> No but most drivers still aren't aware that the app is not a free market representation. At all. Most still believe surge is based on supply and demand. Need to keep hammering at these facts that are all around us yet are difficult for some to reconcile.


The idea of a free market in any shape or form at all is about as real as Santa Claus.


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## Ant-Man (Nov 22, 2017)

socallaoc said:


> The idea of a free market in any shape or form at all is about as real as Santa Claus.


However, TK and DK continue to demonstrate that the Grinch is very much so real world.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

socallaoc said:


> The idea of a free market in any shape or form at all is about as real as Santa Claus.


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## Nonya busy (May 18, 2017)

Ant-Man said:


> No but most drivers still aren't aware that the app is not a free market representation. At all. Most still believe surge is based on supply and demand. Need to keep hammering at these facts that are all around us yet are difficult for some to reconcile.


Yes I noticed that too. Honestly, imo any driver who doesn't realize this is a free market app is kind of slow to say the least.

If I work 10 hours, I know how much i will make on average. It never changes; on average.

I never get long trips back to back. I get long trip followed by $2 trip. Maybe a few small trips before a big one. Never big trips back to back.

When I first started, I said I could do 5 to 7 long trips a day and be done. No way. Fuber loves to keep you on the road as long as possible.

I've realized their app is designed to keep you on the road as long as possible while paying you the absolute least you're willing to accept.

BTW, don't answer any of the "are you happy driving for fuber" or "are you happy with the bonus structure". On the survey i said I'm not happy with the bonus and the rides requirement went up while the bonus was cut in half.


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## El Janitor (Feb 22, 2016)

Yeah this is bait ans switch and it's very illegal.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

Ant-Man said:


> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...cated-software-to-defraud-drivers-passengers/
> *Class action says Uber's "methodical scheme" manipulates rider fares, driver pay.*
> *
> DAVID KRAVETS - 4/6/2017, 10:54 AM
> ...


Now they just need to get some disgruntled ex-uber engineers to testify that Uber is doing this.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I don't know where everyone is from but you guys do realize that the commission was removed from our agreements last May correct? In addition to that there are no set rates for PAX anymore. Uber charges whatever they feel the passenger was willing to pay and we get our set dollar amount. They can charge a 4.5 surge and are not obligated to pay us a penny of it. There are a few lawsuits going around. Within the last month a judge certified a class action suit regarding The Upfront pricing. They started The Upfront pricing August 2016 but did not update our agreement until May of 17. So the drivers who are eligible in this class action suit are suing to get the money back from Uber. The money is anyting Uber took that is greater than the Commission in the agreements. Pretty much everything in here to Uber has admitted. They went too upfront pricing specifically so drivers could not compare fares with passengers. Uber then got a little greedy and start sticking their fingers in our Honeypot. The new agreement came about within days of the first lawsuit being filed

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-on-predicting-how-much-you-re-willing-to-pay



REX HAVOC said:


> Now they just need to get some disgruntled ex-uber engineers to testify that Uber is doing this.


 Uber has already admitted this. they're not denying it


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## Lac (Jan 8, 2018)

How do I sign up? Had a fare where uber paid itself a $30 service fee and I got a $24 fare.


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## jcarrolld (Aug 25, 2016)

heynow321 said:


> Hopefully it goes somewhere.


This is where it will go: Uber makes $xx,xxx,xxx,xxx.xx billion off their scheme. Eventually settles lawsuit for $xxx,xxx,xxx.xx million. Lawyers get 90%. It's just math. Corporations have been doing this for a long time. Anybody old enough to remember the Ford Pinto?


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

IPO my a$$ !!! Bankruptcy will come first and sooner rather than later. 

What a sleazy company!!!


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## Nitedriver (Jun 19, 2014)

crazy how evertin has moved to e-discovery and digital law...


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## Doughie (May 6, 2017)

Friendly Jack said:


> The article cited is more than a year old. Any updates?


In Portland Uber gave up on the long route / short route scam a few months back. Now they show the driver the same long route they charge the customer. If the route looks excessive you can just leave the Uber app on and follow the suggested long route. When passengers object you can just confirm that it's the same route shown on their app and explain that it's the route they are being charged for.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

jcarrolld said:


> Anybody old enough to remember the Ford Pinto


. Yes sir! We had an orange one!


Lac said:


> How do I sign up? Had a fare where uber paid itself a $30 service fee and I got a $24 fare.


. Unfortunately, it's legal for them to be doing this now. We signed that new agreement which removes our commission.
The judge set the parameters on what drivers qualify. It doesn't have anything to do with any fares after we signed the new agreement. It only applies to fares between August 2016 and May 2017. During that time, they were actually breaching the contract because of the set Commission in our agreements. I'll say this. Out of how many millions of drivers there are worldwide, there's only 4400 drivers that qualify!


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

I figured this scheme out long ago. That’s why I use Waze which will give me a similar route to what the pax was shown. I adamantly refuse to use Uber’s GPS. I think this whole new app thing is to get drivers to use Uber’s GPS. No thanks. I’m sticking with Waze. 

Come to think of it, I’m going to start taking the longest of the three routes Waze suggests.


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## jcarrolld (Aug 25, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> . Yes sir! We had an orange one!
> . Unfortunately, it's legal for them to be doing this now. We signed that new agreement which removes our commission.
> The judge set the parameters on what drivers qualify. It doesn't have anything to do with any fares after we signed the new agreement. It only applies to fares between August 2016 and May 2017. During that time, they were actually breaching the contract because of the set Commission in our agreements. I'll say this. Out of how many millions of drivers there are worldwide, there's only 4400 drivers that qualify!


That's one great looking dog. Love dogs!


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Ant-Man said:


> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...cated-software-to-defraud-drivers-passengers/
> *Class action says Uber's "methodical scheme" manipulates rider fares, driver pay.*
> *
> DAVID KRAVETS - 4/6/2017, 10:54 AM
> ...


So, is Ubeer going to put all this excess gain onto the drivers like they do with their booking fee/percentage as they have in the past come tax time? We're supposed to charge it back to them as an expense, but how many people know to do that?



Ant-Man said:


> Have your pax change destination a few times so pricing reverts to pre-upfront pricing scheme (assuming you aren't badly long hauling them and killing any savings). Word will spread pretty quick.


That's what I do, I say put in your neighbor's address as the destination.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

jcarrolld said:


> That's one great looking dog. Love dogs!


Aww Thank you. He gets it from his Mama . He's an ornery lil shit but a handsome one



melusine3 said:


> That's what I do, I say put in your neighbor's address as the destination


. Is the neighbors address far enough to make it revert to the old miles and minutes? I always make them change it to a place like 20 minutes away LOL


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Ant-Man said:


> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...cated-software-to-defraud-drivers-passengers/
> *Class action says Uber's "methodical scheme" manipulates rider fares, driver pay.*
> *
> DAVID KRAVETS - 4/6/2017, 10:54 AM
> ...


I hope they win this suit, Uber is committing fraud.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

What I don't understand is, I'm missing 1100 trips from my total trip number. I contacted them almost a month ago and just on principle alone I call every few days to follow up on this it blows me away that they actually think I'll believe their excuse that they cannot figure this out. Really? You created this elaborate system called Route Based pricing, you have created autonomous cars, you freaking gray balled the government! Yet you can't seem to figure out how I'm missing 1100 trips for my lifetime trip number?


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## roadman (Nov 14, 2016)

Uber is shit.


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## moJohoJo (Feb 19, 2017)

*rider pays the higher fee, and the driver's commission is paid from the cheaper, faster route, according to the lawsuit.*

"Specifically, the Uber Defendants deliberately manipulated the navigation data used in determining the fare amount paid by its users and the amount reported and paid to its drivers," according to the suit filed in federal court in Los Angeles. Lawyers representing a Los Angeles driver for Uber, Sophano Van, said the programming was "shocking, "methodical," and "extensive."

The suit (PDF), which labeled the implementation of Uber's technology as a "well-planned scheme to deceive drivers and users," is one of a number of lawsuits targeting the San Francisco-based company. The suits range from disputes over drivers' employment rights to sex discrimination to trade-secrets theft. Just weeks ago, Uber's CEO, Travis Kalanick, declared that he needed "leadership help."

This latest lawsuit claims that Uber implemented the so-called "upfront" pricing scheme in September and informed drivers that fares are calculated on a per-mile and per-minute charge for the estimated distance and time of a ride. "However, the software that calculates the upfront price that is displayed and charged to the Users calculates the expected distance and time utilizing a route that is often longer in both distance and time to the one displayed in the driver's application," according to the suit.

*Software manipulation*
In the end, the rider pays a higher fee because the software calculates a longer route and displays that to the passenger. Yet the driver is paid a lower rate based on a quicker route, according to the suit. Uber keeps "the difference charged to the User and the fare reported to the driver, in addition to the service fee and booking fee disclosed to drivers," according to the suit.

The manipulation of prices between the amount charged to Users and the amount reported to drivers is clever and sophisticated. The software utilized in determining the upfront price is specifically designed to provide a route distance and time estimate based on traffic conditions and other variables but not to determine the shortest/quickest reasonable route based on those conditions. Meanwhile, the software utilized in the driver's application, which navigates the drivers to the User's destination, utilizes traffic conditions and other variables to provide the driver with a more efficient, shorter, or quicker route to the User's destination, resulting in a lower fare payout to the driver.

The suit claims breach of contract, unjust enrichment, fraud, and unfair competition. The suit seeks back pay and legal fees, and it demands a halt to "the unlawful, deceptive, fraudulent, and unfair business practices."

Uber declined comment.

[/QUOTE]


Rat said:


> You can't advertise one rate and then charge another


Here in California the Uber app will declare it is " processing trip(s) " but it is processing trips because Uber knows you'll eventually lose track of all your trips because your trip history and payments are not being displayed immediately after completion of each trip . Then quite some time later after your trips are ( suppossedly ) calculated & you get a pop - up saying " Everything looks good ! " ( meant to trick you ) you'll find that some trips aren't being shown & that's because Uber just shorted you trips . Uber pockets the money from your missing trips then doesn't pay you . Then when you write support they'll ask you for the trip number because that's their little trick . There is no trip number because trips don't display or ask you for riders name, date and times but Uber knows that you won't have this information nor will you have a trip number because your trip just dissapeared . The latest scheme by Uber .


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

moJohoJo said:


> Uber just shorted you trips . Uber pockets the money from your missing trips then doesn't pay you . Then when you write support they'll ask you for the trip number because that's their little trick . There is no trip number because trips don't display or ask you for riders name, date and times but Uber knows that you won't have this information nor will you have a trip number because your trip just dissapeared


. This is happened to me! It has been a while but it definitely happened . The local drivers, on this forum, thought I was crazy!


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

moJohoJo said:


> Here in California the Uber app will declare it is " processing trip(s) " but it is processing trips because Uber knows you'll eventually lose track of all your trips because your trip history and payments are not being displayed immediately after completion of each trip . Then quite some time later after your trips are ( suppossedly ) calculated & you get a pop - up saying " Everything looks good ! " ( meant to trick you ) you'll find that some trips aren't being shown & that's because Uber just shorted you trips . Uber pockets the money from your missing trips then doesn't pay you . Then when you write support they'll ask you for the trip number because that's their little trick . There is no trip number because trips don't display or ask you for riders name, date and times but Uber knows that you won't have this information nor will you have a trip number because your trip just dissapeared . The latest scheme by Uber .


I've given thousands of rides in Cali and been paid every time. Your complaint about missing trips is extremely unlikely to happen. Uber's not stealing your ride payments. If you have any questions just screenshot each ride.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

goneubering said:


> I've given thousands of rides in Cali and been paid every time. Your complaint about missing trips is extremely unlikely to happen. Uber's not stealing your ride payments. If you have any questions just screenshot each ride.


 Im in Denver and it has happened to me. What do recommend we screenshot? Incoming request? Have you upgraded the app recently? that ping is even shorter than it was before. Screenshot the passengers info? That doesn't prove we took the trip . That doesn't give them the trip ID number they're requesting. All of the info on there, I knew. They kept requesting the trip ID number. How am I supposed to get a trip ID number when the trip is missing from my app and dashboard? I knew the passengers name and the pickup and drop-off address. That didn't help I knew the time the request came in . It didn't finally after 2 weeks of arguing with support, I told them I know this girl's address and I will go to her house to get a copy of the receipt if I need to. A little extreme? Yes but I'll be damned if they're getting away with taking my money. What do you know? The trip showed up 3 weeks later. The original request, they had the nerve to close it out siding I was being uncooperative by not providing them the information they requested!! Ridiculous


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Daisey77 said:


> Im in Denver and it has happened to me. What do recommend we screenshot? Incoming request? Have you upgraded the app recently? that ping is even shorter than it was before. Screenshot the passengers info? That doesn't prove we took the trip . That doesn't give them the trip ID number they're requesting. All of the info on there, I knew. They kept requesting the trip ID number. How am I supposed to get a trip ID number when the trip is missing from my app and dashboard? I knew the passengers name and the pickup and drop-off address. That didn't help I knew the time the request came in . It didn't finally after 2 weeks of arguing with support, I told them I know this girl's address and I will go to her house to get a copy of the receipt if I need to. A little extreme? Yes but I'll be damned if they're getting away with taking my money. What do you know? The trip showed up 3 weeks later. The original request, they had the nerve to close it out siding I was being uncooperative by not providing them the information they requested!! Ridiculous


Go to your ACCOUNT then go to Waybill and you will see the trip # at the top of the page. Glitches can happen with Uber software but it's not some huge ongoing conspiracy to steal money from drivers.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

goneubering said:


> Go to your ACCOUNT then go to Waybill and you will see the trip # at the top of the page. Glitches can happen with Uber software but it's not some huge ongoing conspiracy to steal money from drivers.


 Yes I understand glitches happen. However, Uber needs to as well. Them refusing to even look into it because I could not give them a trip number, is ridiculous. Especially since I had the passenger's name, the pick up time and P/U D/O addresses. For them to be so dismissive about it, was a little suspicious. I mean they gray balled the government for gods sake and they can't find this trip? As far as the way bill goes, that only shows the last trip. You can't get trip numbers on all your past trips. If the trip is missing from the app and the dashboard, I doubt there was a waybill but I don't recall looking and they sure as heck didn't suggest that.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Ant-Man said:


> Yeah I was wondering what was up with that whole passage as well. Ars Technica is usually journalisticly sound.
> 
> That part, no. However, the part where they charge more depending on pax's zip code is textbook price gouging.


Over here in Oz, McDonald's were caught charging higher prices in richer areas. But they got away with it.


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## RedoBeach (Feb 27, 2016)

heynow321 said:


> There is nothing illegal about that. You don't have to take the ride if you don't want to pay what they want you to pay


Ummm... We have numerous laws and regulations regarding unfair business practices, false advertising, and deceptive business practices, not to mention breach of contract and misclassification of employees, not allowing so called "contractors" to negotiate their own contracts.

If it were a matter of illegality and criminal action only, they would be charged in Criminal court, rather than Civil court.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the code of conduct which makes this country America (or what's left of it) before defending such claims. It is that very attitude that has gotten us here to begin with. Peace.



KD_LA said:


> That's impossible, they're on instruments!


It's like the recently popular excuse that the computers decided it and there's no other way around it. (Like trying to get cash back for a return at Home Depot- the computers simply won't let the cashiers do it, even when it's against the law). Forget the fact that there are people intentionally programming the computers, we now live in a society where the go to excuse for being unable to act ethically or legally is because the computers won't allow them to do differently. Smh.



Yam Digger said:


> I figured this scheme out long ago. That's why I use Waze which will give me a similar route to what the pax was shown. I adamantly refuse to use Uber's GPS. I think this whole new app thing is to get drivers to use Uber's GPS. No thanks. I'm sticking with Waze.
> 
> Come to think of it, I'm going to start taking the longest of the three routes Waze suggests.


Have you noticed Waze routes a bit differently when accessed through the Uber app first?


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

RedoBeach said:


> Have you noticed Waze routes a bit differently when accessed through the Uber app first?


Hmmmmm....now that you've mentioned it, I do notice that it behaves a little differently than when I use it stand-alone. But I chalked that up to just how it behaves when accessed by another app through its API. The routes it usually chooses are usually longer but more quicker than the ones I see on the Uber driver app when I start the trip though.


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## RedoBeach (Feb 27, 2016)

Yam Digger said:


> Hmmmmm....now that you've mentioned it, I do notice that it behaves a little differently than when I use it stand-alone. But I chalked that up to just how it behaves when accessed by another app through its API. The routes it usually chooses are usually longer but more quicker than the ones I see on the Uber driver app when I start the trip though.


I believe you can adjust this a bit by changing your preferred settings on the Waze app, but nonetheless, it unfortunately is still interfaced w Uber.

I'm not very tech-oriented or I would offer more info regarding a work-around (if there is one) other than manually entering addresses as we actually had to do before Uber offered Gmaps or Waze through their app a couple of years ago.


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## jaystonepk (Oct 30, 2017)

Always take the longer, faster route, or the route that drives longer in the same time, if possible. Uber nav will default to the more direct route even if it's slower because they get a higher % that way.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

New2This said:


> Now you know why I Longhaul whenever possible.
> 
> I explain WHILE Longhauling them how Uber's fornicating them like a drunk sorority girl at Cowboys Training Camp with Upfront Pricing, Uber charging them based on their purchase history and that if they're going from an affluent area they'll pay more than the same trip in an economically depressed area. Usually they're pissed, and many say they thought something was hinky.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure that if you train them to do this, they can also cheat you out of a surge fare, can't they?


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

melusine3 said:


> So, is Ubeer going to put all this excess gain onto the drivers like they do with their booking fee/percentage as they have in the past come tax time? We're supposed to charge it back to them as an expense, but how many people know to do that?
> 
> That's what I do, I say put in your neighbor's address as the destination.


Let me qualify this to say I believe (I could be wrong, someone correct me?) that if the passenger changes the destination and uber reconfigures charges, you also might lose any surge you're on.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

melusine3 said:


> Let me qualify this to say I believe (I could be wrong, someone correct me?) that if the passenger changes the destination and uber reconfigures charges, you also might lose any surge you're on.


 I don't know for sure but I would say NO. The Surge should not be affected unless they change the pickup address. The drop off destination doesn't affect the surge. Now it may affect the "upfront price" overall but that would be because of the route based pricing. So Uber's inflation may be altered but the Surge is acquired from the pickup spot


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> I don't know for sure but I would say NO. The Surge should not be affected unless they change the pickup address. The drop off destination doesn't affect the surge. Now it may affect the "upfront price" overall but that would be because of the route based pricing. So Uber's inflation may be altered but the Surge is acquired from the pickup spot


That's what I was referencing, when the subject was having the pax change the destination to get them a better price for the route you take other than Uber's app, that having them change the destination address would also negate the surge.


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## Mattio41 (Sep 19, 2016)

melusine3 said:


> That's what I was referencing, when the subject was having the pax change the destination to get them a better price for the route you take other than Uber's app, that having them change the destination address would also negate the surge.


No, it does not affect the surge. It will change the price for the customer to actual mileage and distance and booking fee.


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

moJohoJo said:


> *rider pays the higher fee, and the driver's commission is paid from the cheaper, faster route, according to the lawsuit.*
> 
> "Specifically, the Uber Defendants deliberately manipulated the navigation data used in determining the fare amount paid by its users and the amount reported and paid to its drivers," according to the suit filed in federal court in Los Angeles. Lawyers representing a Los Angeles driver for Uber, Sophano Van, said the programming was "shocking, "methodical," and "extensive."
> 
> ...





> Here in California the Uber app will declare it is " processing trip(s) " but it is processing trips because Uber knows you'll eventually lose track of all your trips because your trip history and payments are not being displayed immediately after completion of each trip . Then quite some time later after your trips are ( suppossedly ) calculated & you get a pop - up saying " Everything looks good ! " ( meant to trick you ) you'll find that some trips aren't being shown & that's because Uber just shorted you trips . Uber pockets the money from your missing trips then doesn't pay you . Then when you write support they'll ask you for the trip number because that's their little trick . There is no trip number because trips don't display or ask you for riders name, date and times but Uber knows that you won't have this information nor will you have a trip number because your trip just dissapeared . The latest scheme by Uber .


Guess the practice is not limited to California only. I seem to have same or similar issues in Midwest. Do people need to engage a lawyer everywhere to right the wrong doings?



goneubering said:


> I've given thousands of rides in Cali and been paid every time. Your complaint about missing trips is extremely unlikely to happen. Uber's not stealing your ride payments. If you have any questions just screenshot each ride.


This happened to me a lot before I learn how to screenshot. I simply keep a notepad in the car and wrote down every trip and compare the trip log with their account records. I think they admitted short paid 70+ trips and who knows how many were missing from the records?


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

ntcindetroit said:


> Guess the practice is not limited to California only. I seem to have same or similar issues in Midwest. Do people need to engage a lawyer everywhere to right the wrong doings?
> 
> This happened to me a lot before I learn how to screenshot. I simply keep a notepad in the car and wrote down every trip and compare the trip log with their account records. I think they admitted short paid 70+ trips and who knows how many were missing from the records?


 I have definitely had missing trips. They miraculously just reappear Weeks Later. Typically after threatening that I'll go to the passenger's house if I have to.

As for the lawyer, I hope you opted out of the arbitration agreement. Otherwise good luck with that


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

Daisey77 said:


> I have definitely had missing trips. They miraculously just reappear Weeks Later. Typically after threatening that I'll go to the passenger's house if I have to.
> 
> As for the lawyer, I hope you opted out of the arbitration agreement. Otherwise good luck with that


We'd think we can retain legal councils in arbitration as well. Maybe no big windfall for lawyers in arbitration like those jury's award.


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## Lac (Jan 8, 2018)

melusine3 said:


> I'm pretty sure that if you train them to do this, they can also cheat you out of a surge fare, can't they?


Yes. It will cause a glitch with a surge fare.


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