# In case you didn't know how much you make "WHEN YOU ARE DELIVERING!", Tony explains it!



## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)




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## FL_Steve (Dec 17, 2021)

He looks very exposed in that mall or whatever it is. Where's a brother playing the Asian knockout game when you really need one?


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Key word “when delivering” not per hour. They play games with the numbers, what he said literally only counts the time from the restaurant to the drop off.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Seamus said:


> Key word “when delivering” not per hour. They play games with the numbers, what he said literally only counts the time from the restaurant to the drop off.


Do you believe that the average dasher only does 4 hours a week?
I was kinda taken aback when he said it is meant as part time.


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## MontcoUberDriver (Aug 14, 2018)

Rickos69 said:


> Do you believe that the average dasher only does 4 hours a week?
> I was kinda taken aback when he said it is meant as part time.


I’m not too surprised. I always felt these gig were a part timers game. It doesn’t pay enough to be a primary source of income. I know some people do it but they are working their asses off.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Rickos69 said:


> Do you believe that the average dasher only does 4 hours a week?
> I was kinda taken aback when he said it is meant as part time.


Yes because there are tremendous amount of ants who only do it once in a while.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rickos69 said:


> I was kinda taken aback when he said it is meant as part time.


He's a bald-faced liar.

NONE of the gig companies can survive without full-time drivers. 

The reason the gig companies concocted that lie is to prevent the govt from stepping in and classifying their drivers as employees or regulating the industry. They know that the govt is much less likely to get involved if the drivers are perceived as a bunch of casual side-hustlers. So they perpetuate the side-hustler lie. As we can see, the lie is becoming less and less effective.

Uber and Hertz rent Teslas to drivers for $500 per week to use as "side-hustle" vehicles? Give me a freaking break.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

I was guaranteed $14/hr between pickup and dropoff instead of an upfront price last time I logged on to doordash. I have not logged in since.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Rickos69 said:


> Do you believe that the average dasher only does 4 hours a week?
> I was kinda taken aback when he said it is meant as part time.


I believe it. 99% of drivers probably do like 2 deliveries a week and then remember why they don't drive for doordash and turn that shit off.

The other 1% cranks out 100 hours because they never tried running another app, and it averages out to 4.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> I was guaranteed $14/hr between pickup and dropoff instead of an upfront price last time I logged on to doordash. I have not logged in since.


I heard about that, although I wasn't offered the same.
My understanding is plus all tips.
You would still need to see the upfront offer though wouldn't you?
Why can't they ever make something simple???


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> I was guaranteed $14/hr between pickup and dropoff instead of an upfront price last time I logged on to doordash. I have not logged in since.


I’ve seen crossing guards ads listed making at least $15/hr.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

None of the math or statistics all these companies use is feasible, it's all bullshit and it should already be illegal because they make up facts that draw and trap more flies.

I can't believe they make people actually ask the government to step in.

Same shit with Uber per hour rate averages, how the **** do they conclude that?


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Invisible said:


> I’ve seen crossing guards ads listed making at least $15/hr.


McDs in my area all have help wanted signs for $15+/hr.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> I was guaranteed $14/hr between pickup and dropoff instead of an upfront price last time I logged on to doordash. I have not logged in since.


Do you realize how crappy $14 per hour is when it only covers "engaged time"? 

When you factor in downtime/deadheading the overall hourly gross is around $10 per hour BEFORE expenses.

It's putrid money.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> He's a bald-faced liar.
> 
> NONE of the gig companies can survive without full-time drivers.
> 
> ...


BTW, he flat out used the phrase "deliver wherever you want, whenever you want!"
You were talking about this in another thread.
And you are right on the whenever. If you have to schedule, and it is not always available, that is not whenever you want.


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## FL_Steve (Dec 17, 2021)

I like how he admits because of high inflation people are so desperate they actually resort to driving for Door Trash for extra money to pay bills.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Rickos69 said:


> BTW, he flat out used the phrase "deliver wherever you want, whenever you want!"
> You were talking about this is another thread.
> And you are right on the whenever. If you have to schedule, and it is not always available, that is not whenever you want.


They control your login time by adjusting promos and surges to the time they want you out while keeping base pay at a minimum, this is why the FTC has to step the hell in, end surges and crap and allow drivers to set their own wages, if people wanna work for free, let them work for free, eventually those idiots will be busy all day long, destroy their car's interior, get low rates and will eventually be set aside by clients.

Amazon has found a way to make it's logistics drivers race to the bottom in prices, pure genius in design but it goes to show how they manipulate algorithms into cutting wages or controlling the drivers, the government needs to step up their game and keep up, code must be audited and design must be scrutinized, it's time the law evolved to keep up with these bullshit artists.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rickos69 said:


>


It's truly unfortunate that well-informed media people who do their homework don't get access to scumbags like him.

I'd love to see him interviewed by someone who's been provided with driver phones so the public can see all the truly disgusting offers and all the retaliatory tactics DD uses to bully their drivers who dare to say NO to the garbage they're offered.

Watching him squirm would be fantastic.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rickos69 said:


> BTW, he flat out used the phrase "deliver wherever you want, whenever you want!"
> You were talking about this in another thread.
> And you are right on the whenever. If you have to schedule, and it is not always available, that is not whenever you want.


I haven't watched the video yet. I just started eating my lunch and I want to enjoy it.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rickos69 said:


> If you have to schedule, and it is not always available, that is not whenever you want.


Having your Dash taken away from you or being shadow-banned doesn't meet the definition of "whenever you want" either.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> Having your Dash taken away from you or being shadow-banned doesn't meet the definition of "whenever you want" either.


In truth, all these secret filters and options should not exist in the apps because it's control, they keep using it because the government hasn't stepped in to say: "hey stop the bullshit", what we need is to force transparency with risk of jail time for whoever leads their design, when I read that Uber allowed world gov's to check their system and prior to them entering closed access to what was really in their system (according to the leaker), I wondered why didn't they ****ing Jail the people in charge at the time? that's fraud in it's very essence yet nothing was done because they are a corporation and not an individual? People need to start going to jail to create an atmosphere of fear next time shit of the sort is suggested by a superior, whistleblow and have the superior jailed, the end.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

All this call for government intervention is ridiculous. Just don't work for these pricks, problem solved. People wasting their time complaining about it would be better off getting a real job.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

NorCalPhil said:


> All this call for government intervention is ridiculous. Just don't work for these pricks, problem solved. People wasting their time complaining about it would be better off getting a real job.


Nah.

Trust me, they cannot make it worse.

IT will be the same as watching someone get raped in the streets or robbed and not call for a cop to do it's job.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Donatello said:


> Nah.
> 
> Trust me, they cannot make it worse.
> 
> IT will be the same as watching someone get raped in the streets or robbed and not call for a cop to do it's job.


No one is robbing or raping the drivers. They are choosing voluntarily to waste their time and gas and to sell their body for pennies.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Donatello said:


> People need to start going to jail to create an atmosphere of fear next time shit of the sort is suggested by a superior, whistleblow and have the superior jailed, the end.


And thats why most industries outsource as much labor as they can. Hire some folks in India to write the software and guys in Xinjiang to manufacture, and no need to worry about litigious Americans playing victim for what they voluntarily signed up to do.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Donatello said:


> Nah.
> 
> Trust me, they cannot make it worse.
> 
> IT will be the same as watching someone get raped in the streets or robbed and not call for a cop to do it's job.


The governments job is not to save you from your own stupidity. These companies are not doing anything illegal. People make bad decisions all the time. If they don't learn from it, and continue to try and squeeze water from a rock, that's their issue.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Trafficat said:


> No one is robbing or raping the drivers. They are choosing voluntarily to waste their time and gas and to sell their body for pennies.


What they are doing is illegal, the contrast is rape or robbery to make it more palatable for those who do not understand, they are committing fraud, are you saying fraud shouldn't be punished by law or be intervened by the government?


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

NorCalPhil said:


> The governments job is not to save you from your own stupidity. These companies are not doing anything illegal. People make bad decisions all the time. If they don't learn from it, and continue to try and squeeze water from a rock, that's their issue.


No it's not but it's also its job to stop fraud.

LOL, how exactly is rigging a system not illegal? so if I rig a casino's odds it's not fraud?


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Trafficat said:


> And thats why most industries outsource as much labor as they can. Hire some folks in India to write the software and guys in Xinjiang to manufacture, and no need to worry about litigious Americans playing victim for what they voluntarily signed up to do.


Whatever software you buy from wherever you want to buy it still allows litigation by the law, come on... so if someone builds a backdoor to your software in India, a backdoor you used, you aren't liable? in what plane of existence?

Their flaws in the code is their RESPONSIBILITY, manufacturer's defects are the makers responsibility.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

I am not a fan of government intervention in very much. I think in the case of GrubHub and Uber eats there are problems for sure but nothing that I would consider fraudulent. However DoorDash is a whole other story. I would support city, state or federal government going after them such as the FTC is talking about.

What DoorDash does with their lack of transparency and slimy ever changing information and tricks for drivers is in my opinion absolutely fraud. Deliberate smoke and mirrors way worse than any other gig out there.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Seamus said:


> I am not a fan of government intervention in very much. I think in the case of GrubHub and Uber eats there are problems for sure but nothing that I would consider fraudulent. However DoorDash is a whole other story. I would support city, state or federal government going after them such as the FTC is talking about.
> 
> what DoorDash does with their lack of transparency and slimy shallow changing information for drivers in my opinion absolutely borders on fraud.


Not all of them commit fraud, you can tell when stuff gets fraudulent by design or "ooopsies" in their systems, Uber is the pinnacle of fraud and the first to accuse it's drivers with fraud, the irony is hilarious.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Donatello said:


> No it's not but it's also it's job to stop fraud.
> 
> LOL, how exactly is rigging a system not illegal? so if I rig a casino's odds it's not fraud?


Casino odds are known and machine payouts are heavily regulated. If you want rigged games go to a kids arcade. Several of those games are rigged (described how to do it in the user manual) and can be set up to never payout. 

As a contractor, you are free to accept or reject any job sent your way. You are not forced to work for them, or accept any job they send you. And they will manipulate you into doing exactly what they want you to do. And no, that is not illegal as long as you have free will. Just foolish to continue to do it knowing the outcome.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

NorCalPhil said:


> Casino odds are known and machine payouts are heavily regulated. If you want rigged games go to a kids arcade. Several of those games are rigged (described how to do it in the user manual) and can be set up to never payout.
> 
> As a contractor, you are free to accept or reject any job sent your way. You are not forced to work for them, or accept any job they send you. And they will manipulate you into doing exactly what they want you to do. And no, that is not illegal as long as you have free will. Just foolish to continue to do it knowing the outcome.


You just countered your own argument with that reply.

You say casinos are regulated and odds are known, why not use the same transparency with gig apps? It is, after all, a product you are "paying to use through cut percentages" no? isn't that what they all claim? That they are middle men and not a corporation in the business of whatever they latch on? Correct?

By your own logic, anything is the person's problem, fell for scam? don't do it again? fell for Ponzi? Why did you invest, don't do it again? and exaggerating to make a point, got robbed? Why were you in that neighborhood?

You see, laws and regulations are created to stop these parasites from abusing the person EVEN ONCE, simply telling someone to stay off is no excuse to allow them to keep defrauding every new sucker that falls for it, you stop doing it because it's shit, no shit, duh! but it's no excuse to allow rigged design and algorithmic traps to keep going endlessly throughout the years.

The stuff you talk about in rejecting or accepting jobs doesn't even scratch the surface of what the system forces and hoodwinks you to accept by design and control, one thing is random odds and another is an obvious filter put on your account that will control the every aspect of your app experience.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Donatello said:


> You say casinos are regulated and odds are known, why not use the same transparency with gig apps? It is, after all, a product you are "paying to use through cut percentages" no? isn't that what they all claim? That they are middle men and not a corporation in the business of whatever they latch on? Correct?


GAMBLING is regulated. Rideshare/delivery is not gambling, and its not heavily regulated BECAUSE it came out of the shadows in a quasi-legal form that paid off politicians as needed to avoid being shut down. If the government upheld its own laws, rideshare would have never gotten off the ground–yet you appeal to them to save you. Gov cares less about the people than these companies do. 


Donatello said:


> By your own logic, anything is the person's problem, fell for scam? don't do it again? fell for Ponzi? Why did you invest, don't do it again? and exaggerating to make a point, got robbed? Why were you in that neighborhood?


IF these platforms did something illegal, you can sue them. Plenty of us have and won. How they market their platforms has been questioned for years - they can misrepresent reality all they want - welcome to marketing. Its not ethical, but ethics are not a requirement. If you can prove they knowingly lied to you, exploited you, whatever - sue them.


Donatello said:


> You see, laws and regulations are created to stop these parasites from abusing the person EVEN ONCE, simply telling someone to stay off is no excuse to allow them to keep defrauding every new sucker that falls for it, you stop doing it because it's shit, no shit, duh! but it's no excuse to allow rigged design and algorithmic traps to keep going endlessly throughout the years.


By all means, take them to court. Prove their fraud. When I started driving in 2016 people were warning me not to for these same reasons. It only gets worse, and as long as there is a new ant ready to replace the warn out one, it continues. 


Donatello said:


> The stuff you talk about in rejecting or accepting jobs doesn't even scratch the surface of what the system forces and hoodwinks you to accept by design and control, one thing is random odds and another is an obvious filter put on your account that will control the every aspect of your app experience.


And you actively participate in a system that forces and hoodwinks you to do things you find abhorrent. Thats on you friend. The only thing preventing you from walking away is you. 

Gig jobs attract people who don't do well answering to authority and puts them into a working relationship with an absolute authority who doesn't care about them. Perfectly ironic marriage.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

NorCalPhil said:


> GAMBLING is regulated. Rideshare/delivery is not gambling, and its not heavily regulated BECAUSE it came out of the shadows in a quasi-legal form that paid off politicians as needed to avoid being shut down. If the government upheld its own laws, rideshare would have never gotten off the ground–yet you appeal to them to save you. Gov cares less about the people than these companies do.


Rideshare is just an app, an app is code and design.

Gambling is a machine with software, software that uses code and design.

How are they different again? Do you see the odds or how these apps operate in the naked? no? Same thing with gambling, this is why they became regulated.

You insert conspiracies to your argument, you cannot be serious.

The government did what it was designed to do, nothing was "gifted" or fought by your Gig champions, what sort of nonsense is this? The government failed to regulate because laws and regulations were not created for the arguments these companies created to get away with their bypass of a conventional way of business, be it labor or operation, were the government as you say "evil" they would have never allowed it and kept the status quo as is.



NorCalPhil said:


> IF these platforms did something illegal, you can sue them. Plenty of us have and won. How they market their platforms has been questioned for years - they can misrepresent reality all they want - welcome to marketing. Its not ethical, but ethics are not a requirement. If you can prove they knowingly lied to you, exploited you, whatever - sue them.


IF these platforms are doing something illegal, you cannot sue because they will not let you see what's under the hood and even if you did, they can change it at will to say they are innocent, what to do? Regulation, transparency is needed before any form of lawsuit takes effect, with me yet?

LOL, I am not talking about ethical stuff, we are way past that, what they do is criminal, being willingly negligent and designing switches and AI to guide you the way they want is not "unethical", it's criminal when money is involved.



NorCalPhil said:


> By all means, take them to court. Prove their fraud. When I started driving in 2016 people were warning me not to for these same reasons. It only gets worse, and as long as there is a new ant ready to replace the warn out one, it continues.


I did take both Uber and Lyft to court and got settled, ROFL, they don't even bother to fight something they know you are right and will be nearly impossible to fight or costly, if they settle it's to stop a would be precedent of loss in a case, they are smart enough to do that.



NorCalPhil said:


> And you actively participate in a system that forces and hoodwinks you to do things you find abhorrent. Thats on you friend. The only thing preventing you from walking away is you.
> 
> Gig jobs attract people who don't do well answering to authority and puts them into a working relationship with an absolute authority who doesn't care about them. Perfectly ironic marriage.


I don't know why you speak about "You this, you that" I haven't touched rideshare in 3 years.

By your logic, those who are foolish enough to fall for a scam should stop while they can, screw the fact the scammer is running a scam.

LOL.

I am done if your arguments consists of trolling and conspiracy theories.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Donatello said:


> How are they different again?


Show me any gambling law on the books that has any bearing on rideshare.



Donatello said:


> I did take both Uber and Lyft to court and got settled, ROFL, they don't even bother to fight something they know you are right and will be nearly impossible to fight or costly, if they settle it's to stop a would be precedent of loss in a case, they are smart enough to do that.


Great. These companies never admit to wrongdoing - they settle out of court because its the right business decision. Part of the deal is they admit no guilt, and you stay quiet about the settlement or open yourself up to litigation. Who you choose to call a ***** in that situation is entirely up to you.



Donatello said:


> IF these platforms are doing something illegal, you cannot sue because they will not let you see what's under the hood and even if you did, they can change it at will to say they are innocent, what to do? Regulation, transparency is needed before any form of lawsuit takes effect, with me yet?


Apparently you are unfamiliar with the concept of discovery.



Donatello said:


> LOL, I am not talking about ethical stuff, we are way past that, what they do is criminal, being willingly negligent and designing switches and AI to guide you the way they want is not "unethical", it's criminal when money is involved.


They've devised a system. You've consented to use their system. You don't like the system because you feel its somehow unfair. That is not criminal.



Donatello said:


> You insert conspiracies to your argument, you cannot be serious.


Uber's history of dealing with the government, avoiding regulation and supporting politicians are all very well documented. As is the governments failed attempts at regulating the industry.



Donatello said:


> By your logic, those who are foolish enough to fall for a scam should stop while they can, screw the fact the scammer is running a scam.


Rideshare is not a scam. Giving your login to some idiot who calls you during a ride and cleans out your account is a scam. Understanding the difference is critical to pursuing logical endpoints, which you continue to fail at. 



Donatello said:


> I am done if your arguments consists of trolling and conspiracy theories.


Thanks for admitting you lost the argument.


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## TeleSki (Dec 4, 2014)

Seamus said:


> Key word “when delivering” not per hour. They play games with the numbers, what he said literally only counts the time from the restaurant to the drop off.


My "when delivering" time is usually about 1/2 to 2/3 of my actual time in app.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

NorCalPhil said:


> Show me any gambling law on the books that has any bearing on rideshare.


Gambling laws are there to verify that the design and code used to arrange the odds isn't rigged, there are no gambling laws pertaining or affecting rideshare or anything else, the laws are there to make sure someone doesn't create a rigged system, the same thing Rideshare needs... given design is already compromised because they have realized there is no oversight for it.



NorCalPhil said:


> Great. These companies never admit to wrongdoing - they settle out of court because its the right business decision. Part of the deal is they admit no guilt, and you stay quiet about the settlement or open yourself up to litigation. Who you choose to call a *** in that situation is entirely up to you.


Correct.



NorCalPhil said:


> Apparently you are unfamiliar with the concept of discovery.


As someone who codes, I can explain to you the entire process.

1. Gather the leads and create the goal/design or blueprint.

2. Have the code monkeys put that vision into logical code or algorithm.

3. Debug and alpha/beta test the code until it is presentable to the public.

4. Release the final product.

Bugs exist in software, there are intended and unintended results from code and design, if you complain about something (as a user), the developer has only 2 says in the situation:

A. Working as intended.

B. This is a bug and must be fixed.

Given Uber doesn't change anything and doesn't have the balls to say "working as intended" because it would spark lawsuits and gov intervention, I am going to go with "they know what they are doing" and thusly manipulating the final result, therefore there is no "discovery" as a plausible explanation.

Their current definition of discovery and testing only serves as "how far can they push the law" before caught, that directly translates to profit.



NorCalPhil said:


> They've devised a system. You've consented to use their system. You don't like the system because you feel its somehow unfair. That is not criminal.


No, you see... we are contractors, with me? We have rules for such labeling, we pass on a lot of stuff because performing jobs come out of our pockets and run all the risks, by law we are not to be controlled by anyone and that doesn't mean code can control us, if you design in your app: Where I work (by lowering pay so badly only surges in areas make a profit), How I work (with a rating system that pretty much acts like your manager in fear of deactivation, routes I take, rides I take <by depriving me from seeing everything that's out there through selective matching and throttling>) and When I work ( again by depriving me of anything profitable by promos or surges until I am needed), you got yourself control that isn't visible, see... what they count on is that by avoiding a person from telling you what to do, their code can do so by controlling your every move: your luck, your ride types, your locations for work... all within code they control, remember how proximity used to be decider of who got the ride? That was caveman rideshare, now they will prioritize the guy who picked shit trips all day like a mindless ant and in order for him to not fall under 10 bucks an hour, they will give him that trip.

They didn't even come up with this, I've seen this first hand over 20 years ago in online videogames, that's where they got it from.



NorCalPhil said:


> Uber's history of dealing with the government, avoiding regulation and supporting politicians are all very well documented. As is the governments failed attempts at regulating the industry.


May be so but unless you have proof of such claims, it's just a conspiracy theory, the guy who whistleblew Uber did not mention any shady stuff like that, he was the lead in the scenario yet didn't say anything about it as he wanted to sink uber to the ground, why? Because it's not true, paying people off is not the case, promising exorbitant or amazing results after signing approvals for their term to gain props is actually what happened and the politicians fell for it, if that guy didn't have proof, believe me they didn't do it that way.



NorCalPhil said:


> Rideshare is not a scam. Giving your login to some idiot who calls you during a ride and cleans out your account is a scam. Understanding the difference is critical to pursuing logical endpoints, which you continue to fail at.


Rideshare/Gig is not a scam but it is the bypass of worker laws and protections, therefore it is fraud and loophole exploit.

The example I gave you is again... a contrast that would be easier to understand, why allow someone scamming to keep scamming? Why allow a fraudster to keep defrauding?



NorCalPhil said:


> Thanks for admitting you lost the argument.


At least your reply sounded less trolly this time, keep assumptions like conspiracy theories off an argument.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

My guess is, the people and the FTC, may have family who work gig apps. So this is hitting their homes.

You can only exploit people for so long....Soon, it will come back to bite you in the ass.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Uberdriver2710 said:


> My guess is, the people and the FTC, may have family who work gig apps. So this is hitting the're homes.
> 
> You can only exploit people for so long....Soon, it will come back to bite you in the ass.


That makes no sense. Why would a well connected government official have family members struggling to get by on gig apps? Surely they could get them an overpaid government job or even a private sector job easily. Most companies would probably be happy to hire a relative of an FTC worker to keep themselves out of the persecution spotlight.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Trafficat said:


> That makes no sense. Why would a well connected government official have family members struggling to get by on gig apps? Surely they could get them an overpaid government job or even a private sector job easily. Most companies would probably be happy to hire a relative of an FTC worker to keep themselves out of the persecution spotlight.


This is what happened:

Joe Biden needs to show he worked for the people, what better way than fixing the gig scam.

Uber grew so large so fast (again after covid) that it started abusing the new blood too fast, the new blood realized they were getting ****ed as bad we were back in 2018 and prior to it that they started talking all over social media about the scam rideshare and gig apps bring, abusing those in need.

It's Karma, baby, pure beautiful Karma.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

The gig apps provided me refuge from the abuse of w2 work. Granted I am talking legitimate gigs like Uber, Lyft, Grubhub. DoorDash is not even a realistic way to make money as far as I can tell.

If Biden ends gig work then he will just have ****ed my life even worse. And anyone so unemployable they need a gig to make it in this world to the point where they feel abused will be similarly ****ed. Yall might imagine getting paid $40/hr when the new laws roll out but the reality will be begging on the corner once these companies start doing interviews and reference checks, or maybe get used to shaving, putting on your uniform, and swiping that time clock for your work each day. There's gotta be some reason these "abused" people do this job and chances are whatever fix they have in mind will undo that reason. I mean, if you want minimum wage so badly, why not go be a school bus driver or a cashier?


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Trafficat said:


> The gig apps provided me refuge from the abuse of w2 work. Granted I am talking legitimate gigs like Uber, Lyft, Grubhub. DoorDash is not even a realistic way to make money as far as I can tell.
> 
> If Biden ends gig work then he will just have ****ed my life even worse. And anyone so unemployable they need a gig to make it in this world to the point where they feel abused will be similarly ****ed. Yall might imagine getting paid $40/hr when the new laws roll out but the reality will be begging on the corner once these companies start doing interviews and reference checks.


I understand that cat, I understand that most people who defend it have good things going or no choice, I did too yet I still complained, why? because it's the right thing to do, these companies are parasites creating fake standards with no oversight.

Just trust me, in order to push these assholes to do things right, you need to smack them so hard they will never try it again.

Gigs will not end, I saw this the very first time Uber decided to castigate Austin for not letting **** everyone and pulled out, they were replaced almost immediately, we play a game of chicken with them and they know our fear is their absence, what they know and you don't is that ANYONE can replace them, anyone willing to abide to fair standards and the law, you can't have both cake and a party, only spoiled children have that, this is what Uber doesn't understand.

They fail to infrastructure and bleed money everywhere, for that, let someone else try, even if Uber has to become 100 different rideshare companies by states.

It does not end, it's a market that provides jobs, Uber just wants to take as much as they can because they fail to infrastructure their company, too big, too fast, too irresponsible.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

AND If the FTC ****s Uber and Gig abuse, I will ****ing vote for Biden, he got my vote. 🤣


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> Why would a well connected government official have family members struggling to get by on gig apps?


No job openings?


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Donatello said:


> Gambling laws are there to verify that the design and code used to arrange the odds isn't rigged,


Nonsense. Gambling existed long before tech was involved, and the laws that regulated it are not new. 


Donatello said:


> As someone who codes


Given your description of coding I'm highly suspect of this claim. I contract with coders all the time. Making assumptions about uber's motives because they don't outright state them is dishonest. When I was driving much of what was claimed in this forum as fact or manipulation was unfounded. 


Donatello said:


> No, you see... we are contractors, with me? We have rules for such labeling, we pass on a lot of stuff because performing jobs come out of our pockets and run all the risks, by law we are not to be controlled by anyone and that doesn't mean code can control us, if you design in your app: Where I work (by lowering pay so badly only surges in areas make a profit), How I work (with a rating system that pretty much acts like your manager in fear of deactivation, routes I take, rides I take <by depriving me from seeing everything that's out there through selective matching and throttling>) and When I work ( again by depriving me of anything profitable by promos or surges until I am needed), you got yourself control that isn't visible, see... what they count on is that by avoiding a person from telling you what to do, their code can do so by controlling your every move: your luck, your ride types, your locations for work... all within code they control, remember how proximity used to be decider of who got the ride? That was caveman rideshare, now they will prioritize the guy who picked shit trips all day like a mindless ant and in order for him to not fall under 10 bucks an hour, they will give him that trip.
> 
> They didn't even come up with this, I've seen this first hand over 20 years ago in online videogames, that's where they got it from.


None of that contradicts what I said. They created the apps, you consent to use them (and can't go online without doing so). When they change them, they force re-up on the consent. You seem to now understand that after consent, you going online is purely your decision. If you think the pay sucks, ratings are unfair, customer complaints aren't legit, support sucks - thats all fine. You're still choosing to work under those conditions, and thats on you. 

Regardless of how the app is coded, its obvious Uber cares about itself first, customers second, drivers fifth. I can't tell you what third and fourth are, but thats how much they care about drivers. Every human contact I ever had with that company was combative. Thinking you can fix what it is, to run how you think it should run, is just foolish. 



Donatello said:


> May be so but unless you have proof of such claims, it's just a conspiracy theory


https://news.yahoo.com/uber-secretly-lobbied-prominent-politicians-180911603.html 


Donatello said:


> Rideshare/Gig is not a scam but it is the bypass of worker laws and protections, therefore it is fraud and loophole exploit.


Using loopholes in law is not fraud, its smart business.

I wouldn't agree that they bypass worker laws or protections. The problem with breaking the law is that you get sued, and they continue to be sued relentlessly. They've fought against attempts to change how their workers are categorized. They work the system the best they can. Why anybody would be surprised that they'd BUILD a system that works in their favor most of the time is the mystery.


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## ThanksUber (Jul 26, 2017)

I just love how they showed the stock chart for DoorDash just going into the toilet in the background.

Maybe being honest about what a driver can make per hour while online would help his credibility but until then he is just another clown.


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## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

NorCalPhil said:


> These companies are not doing anything illegal.


Now, that is for the courts to decide. So far, every court that has ruled has decided that drivers are employees under the current law.
Few courts have ruled, so there is a chance that we will be determined to be ICs. It seems unlikely due to Uber's control over drivers. The law could change. 
Either way, we are under some government control already.


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## FL_Steve (Dec 17, 2021)

NorCalPhil said:


> Regardless of how the app is coded, its obvious Uber cares about itself first, customers second, drivers fifth. I can't tell you what third and fourth are, but thats how much they care about drivers.


I'm guessing carbon paper is 3rd or 4th.


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## STRIDERr (5 mo ago)

MontcoUberDriver said:


> I’m not too surprised. I always felt these gig were a part timers game. It doesn’t pay enough to be a primary source of income. I know some people do it but they are working their asses off.


I was doing it full time for 2 years and making close to $1,000 a week........ but in the last few months it turned to complete shiit.. back to web design for me i guess...... I'll still do it once in a while though


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## RulerK (10 mo ago)

Rickos69 said:


> McDs in my area all have help wanted signs for $15+/hr.


I've seen it for $17-22!


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

NorCalPhil said:


> Nonsense. Gambling existed long before tech was involved, and the laws that regulated it are not new.


Rephrasing "gambling regulations" as in inspection of gambling games and machines, today they use code.

Analog machines were scrutinized the same way.



NorCalPhil said:


> Given your description of coding I'm highly suspect of this claim. I contract with coders all the time. Making assumptions about uber's motives because they don't outright state them is dishonest. When I was driving much of what was claimed in this forum as fact or manipulation was unfounded.


You contract with coders? So that makes you someone who codes or understands coding?

I don't think you contract with coders to be frank.

There are no assumptions, it's the prevention of exploitation and biased design by your boys at Uber, by the same logic, you also assume their intentions are not nefarious.



NorCalPhil said:


> None of that contradicts what I said. They created the apps, you consent to use them (and can't go online without doing so). When they change them, they force re-up on the consent. You seem to now understand that after consent, you going online is purely your decision. If you think the pay sucks, ratings are unfair, customer complaints aren't legit, support sucks - thats all fine. You're still choosing to work under those conditions, and thats on you.
> 
> Regardless of how the app is coded, its obvious Uber cares about itself first, customers second, drivers fifth. I can't tell you what third and fourth are, but thats how much they care about drivers. Every human contact I ever had with that company was combative. Thinking you can fix what it is, to run how you think it should run, is just foolish.


Again, you fail to understand the fact I am labeled a contractor that requires the full set of freedoms I am offered BY LAW, if your app design infringes upon those freedoms, you:

A. Redesign the app and/or allow impartial oversight by the gov.

B. Stop labeling me a contractor.

C. Stop operating a misleading venture.



NorCalPhil said:


> https://news.yahoo.com/uber-secretly-lobbied-prominent-politicians-180911603.html


I don't understand how lobbying equals bribing, again, do you have proof of these bribes?



NorCalPhil said:


> Using loopholes in law is not fraud, its smart business.
> 
> I wouldn't agree that they bypass worker laws or protections. The problem with breaking the law is that you get sued, and they continue to be sued relentlessly. They've fought against attempts to change how their workers are categorized. They work the system the best they can. Why anybody would be surprised that they'd BUILD a system that works in their favor most of the time is the mystery.


Correct, loopholes are not breaking the law, however... when caught attempting to circumvent a law using a loophole, you become an entity prone to fraud under the lawmakers eyes, and fall from their graces, at that point you may have a biased experience in the future as you are aware Uber is having.

The loopholes are closing, remember Dynamex? now the FTC is coming for them, Uber is a magnet for bad blood.

Uber avoids employment responsibilities using tech, they already failed since AB5 and the change to the ABC test, they avoided being tagged a transportation company by calling drivers clients and becoming middle men, a middle man that sets prices not only in their company but as a duopoly with Lyft, now the FTC is coming, I would like to see what more bullshit they say. Uber lobbies legislation, they know what happens if drivers have to be employed, it's bye bye Uber. This is where it gets funny, having that fear of employment, they design the app to control the drivers in every aspect they can, they know it's their demise yet they keep pushing bullshit on the app, it's idiotic at this point.

You are very welcome to have your beliefs but proof in the pudding already labels Uber a POS company, immoral, fraudulent and criminal, who knows, had they not painted themselves that way, maybe people would look the other way on their antics.

The only foreseeable future for Uber is massive regulation.


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## Highlander712 (Jul 24, 2021)

I simply have to ask, as my searches come up blank. Both here and on DD Reddit, I keep constantly seeing references to Tony. Like one time, a guy wrote a post, about how being Top Dasher is worth it. He CLAIMED to have a 98% Acceptance Rate, and never takes low dollar orders, then claimed most Dashers were too dumb to figure it out. 

(I don't believe one word of it) 

But the first response was, "This must be Tony?" At the risk of sounding dumb, who the hell is Tony ? Tony Egg from the Sopranos ?


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