# Question about milage!



## Texas4life577 (May 31, 2016)

I see from reading a few post that it is recommended to keep a daily log of your milage by writing your odometer readings. But can I use the daily reports that uber sends to us that shows the trip details that includes the milage. Will the IRS give that more credence then daily logs that we kept.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

IRS probably likes the Uber logs... But the Uber logs don't tell about the times where you are driving around fishing with no pax. I spend more miles fishing than anything else.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Texas4life577 said:


> I see from reading a few post that it is recommended to keep a daily log of your milage by writing your odometer readings. But can I use the daily reports that uber sends to us that shows the trip details that includes the milage. Will the IRS give that more credence then daily logs that we kept.


No, your logs are your first line of defense. The Uber logs could be used to support or deny deductions based on your log. If for example, you claimed mileage deductions for a certain date and your uber logs show you hadn't worked on that day, you would have a problem. In the past the IRS has used things like MVD documents and repair documents to cross check your mileage log for accuracy.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Trafficat said:


> IRS probably likes the Uber logs... But the Uber logs don't tell about the times where you are driving around fishing with no pax. I spend more miles fishing than anything else.


You're right about them probably liking the Uber logs...they never had those for taxi drivers!


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> You're right about them probably liking the Uber logs...they never had those for taxi drivers!


When i was an indy driver, and got audited, they did ask to see my cabs Odo. Aside from that and my log that's all they had to go on was that and the credit card transactions I had done.

Most jurisdictions with a TLC require cabbies to keep a log. When i was indy i had no log except my mileage log. But i wasn't permited for any big cities either.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> When i was an indy driver, and got audited, they did ask to see my cabs Odo. Aside from that and my log that's all they had to go on was that and the credit card transactions I had done.
> 
> Most jurisdictions with a TLC require cabbies to keep a log. When i was indy i had no log except my mileage log. But i wasn't permited for any big cities either.


I think cabbies have to keep logs pretty much everywhere. If the driver is an IC the cab company doesn't usually have to keep any additional records (other than the drivers log) that could be used to verify the driver's logs like Uber records.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> I think cabbies have to keep logs pretty much everywhere. If the driver is an IC the cab company doesn't usually have to keep any additional records (other than the drivers log) that could be used to verify the driver's logs like Uber records.


"open" markets that have zero government oversight have actually zero requirements other than commercial insurance. So really it depends on the market. Just like everything else we talk about on the forums


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## Steveyoungerthanmontana (Nov 19, 2016)

I use MileIQ. It keeps my personal trips and business trips separate. It logs everything and then at the end of the month you put the ride in either business or personal. I did 26,000 miles this year, 16,000 were for UBER and LYFT. 10,000 were personal.


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

**Disclaimer: I'm not an expert or IRS authority by any means**

From what I've read the IRS requires actual miles to be documented. Their "example" log includes beginning and ending odometers, but I've not seen anywhere where they require that except for January 1 mileage.
From https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p463.pdf.... 
_Transportation Cost of each separate expense. For car expenses, the cost of the car and any improvements, the date you started using it for business, the mileage for each business use, and the total miles for the year. Date of the expense. For car expenses, the date of the use of the car. Your business destination. Business purpose for the expense. _

So, I only record my actual odometer on Jan 1 of each year since that value has to be put on tax forms.

As for my mileage logs, I use Uber's "email csv" function on the partner page, run a few Excel macros against it to calculate my on-trip and dead miles (check out http://analystcave.com/excel-calculate-distances-between-addresses/) . The end result is a spreadsheet that has the date/time stamp, Uber Trip ID so I can pull the actual trip if needed (https://partners.uber.com/p3/money/trips/TripIDHere), beginning of trip (which is either my home office or the end of the last fare), fare pickup location, distance from trip beginning to fare pickup, fare dropoff, on-trip mileage, and end trip location (usually blank for next fare, or where i drove to to stage/wait for next fare, or back to my home office).

I also track business-related non-service miles (going to the carwash, auto service, etc) on a separate spreadsheet along with my other expenses - dashcam parts, vehicle registration, LLC fees to the state, etc.

So legally speaking this is an estimate which is not allowed by the IRS but I claim it be actual since I don't pay for a GPS-tracking app or actually record mileage after each trip. If I'm audited they've have to prove that it's not actual and I'm only going to provide a printout, not the actual formulas.


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## darkshy77 (Sep 28, 2015)

Texas4life577 said:


> I see from reading a few post that it is recommended to keep a daily log of your milage by writing your odometer readings. But can I use the daily reports that uber sends to us that shows the trip details that includes the milage. Will the IRS give that more credence then daily logs that we kept.


Uber Only shows miles on a trip.... This year write down the miles for when you start to you get home.


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## louvit (Dec 30, 2016)

Just because you write it down in a book when you are cruising around for a all will the IRS accept that? Will Uber send a year end statement of call to pick up and pick up to drop off at least? The rest can be estimated...


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Dback2004 said:


> **Disclaimer: I'm not an expert or IRS authority by any means**
> 
> From what I've read the IRS requires actual miles to be documented. Their "example" log includes beginning and ending odometers, but I've not seen anywhere where they require that except for January 1 mileage.
> From https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p463.pdf....
> ...


Rather than risk having to prove/substantiate your estimate ( my understanding is that the IRS need not prove anything- that's on you ) isn't it simpler to write down the odometer readings at the start and end of each shift? You don't need to break it down by individual trips. That was the way my CPA told me to record mileage 14 years ago. I also supply my odometer readings for the beginning and end of the year so that business vs personal use percentages can be applied.


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Rather than risk having to prove/substantiate your estimate ( my understanding is that the IRS need not prove anything- that's on you ) isn't it simpler to write down the odometer readings at the start and end of each shift? You don't need to break it down by individual trips. That was the way my CPA told me to record mileage 14 years ago. I also supply my odometer readings for the beginning and end of the year so that business vs personal use percentages can be applied.


I tried recording odo readings for a while, but more often than not I'd forget. Would probably be an easier habit if I drove regularly, but I drive so infrequently that I just forget. I have a reminder set on my phone to go off every NYE now to go write down the odo readings as I would usually forget that too and have to estimate from oil change receipts, etc. Also why I don't use any of the apps, you have to tell it what miles are for business and what are personal. In my case I drive 20K+ miles each year for my regular job but I'm reimbursed by employer for those so can't deduct them. I do the same for them, just use Google Maps to calculate each start/endpoint for work and put on my expense report.

The per trip reports are a little excessive, but from what I've read, disclaimer still applies, the IRS typically will have to disprove your records as being false, incomplete, or full of errors. My records should be sufficient. Again, only applies if I'm audited...


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

louvit said:


> Just because you write it down in a book when you are cruising around for a all will the IRS accept that? Will Uber send a year end statement of call to pick up and pick up to drop off at least? The rest can be estimated...


The IRS accepted my chicken scratch in a day book as my log for the whole year... with absolutely nothing beyond that. Taxis have been using the same or less documentation for years and the IRS accepts it. What they wont' accept is someone with no log at all who is claiming tens of thousands of miles on sketchy grounds. If they see how much money your bringing in to be full time and they are seeing that you have a log on top of Uber's numbers they won't really have grounds to question your documents.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> The IRS accepted my chicken scratch in a day book as my log for the whole year... with absolutely nothing beyond that. Taxis have been using the same or less documentation for years and the IRS accepts it. What they wont' accept is someone with no log at all who is claiming tens of thousands of miles on sketchy grounds. If they see how much money your bringing in to be full time and they are seeing that you have a log on top of Uber's numbers they won't really have grounds to question your documents.


THELMA L. MOORE AND WILLIE J. MOORE had a similar chicken scratch log and it wasn't accepted by the IRS like yours was. They took their case to tax court. In the "good old days", the IRS would allow a reasonable deduction, based on the nature of the business, even without a written record. This is no longer the case. The new "old" rule: no contemporaneous record, no deduction. Period. The audit appeals are making their way through the court system now and the courts are siding with the IRS. Read for yourself:
http://www.ustaxcourt.gov/InOpHistoric/MooreSumm.SUM.WPD.pdf
GARY ROY submitted a spreadsheet and some notes for his vehicle expenses and claimed that logs weren't needed because he used his vehicle 100% for business. He also was bringing in money but had his vehicle deductions denied by the IRS. He was also hit with a 20% accuracy related penalty amounting to over $4,000. He took the case to tax court in 2016 and the court sided with the IRS and upheld the 20 % accuracy penalty:
http://www.ustaxcourt.gov/UstcInOp/OpinionViewer.aspx?ID=10968

The IRS doesn't need grounds to question your documents. Deductions have been ruled by the courts to be "legislative grace" and the taxpayer must meet *all* substantiation requirements. The only time the burden of proof can be switched to the government is if* all* substantiation requirements have been met.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

By chicken scratch log i had start/end odometer readings for every date i went out working with a total amount in cash/credit revenue generated for the time in question with invoice numbers for the credit card transactions written in the log. I should have kept a fare-fare trip sheet but... yeah i'm too lazy for that.

The auditor also brought up the point that... because I had 10s of thousands in cash revenue reported so if she was really looking for me cheating, that's infinitely more likely to be where i would cheat...


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

And the uber numbers in terms of total miles driven, that is further evidence to substantiate your claim on the number of miles you drove.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> And the uber numbers in terms of total miles driven, that is further evidence to substantiate your claim on the number of miles you drove.


Or hurt you if you deducted miles on a day you didn't show anything on your Uber records!


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> Or hurt you if you deducted miles on a day you didn't show anything on your Uber records!


Well that would be you making stuff up and getting caught. What i'm talking about is honestly filling out a log that shows reality.


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## Buber2005 (Jan 1, 2017)

Texas4life577 said:


> I see from reading a few post that it is recommended to keep a daily log of your milage by writing your odometer readings. But can I use the daily reports that uber sends to us that shows the trip details that includes the milage. Will the IRS give that more credence then daily logs that we kept.


Did you guys ever figure out any answer to this? Also, when did mileage start being spelled milage?


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Buber2005 said:


> Did you guys ever figure out any answer to this? Also, when did mileage start being spelled milage?


If you keep the Uber reports showing pax trip miles that ought to help substantiate your mileage log that includes empty miles. IRS rules refer to a"contemporaneous mileage log" which to me means recording odometer readings for each shift, starting and ending, along with the date and business purpose.


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## LuisEnrikee (Mar 31, 2016)

i have a car for uber (business only) i have proof of milage from time of purchase (dmv, and car lot papers) that state the mileage. 
there has been a good amount of miles on it but it was all business use. i havent however, wrote down anything or used an app.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

LuisEnrikee said:


> i have a car for uber (business only) i have proof of milage from time of purchase (dmv, and car lot papers) that state the mileage.
> there has been a good amount of miles on it but it was all business use. i havent however, wrote down anything or used an app.


In case of an audit, the IRS can disallow the deduction for unsubstantiated miles, leaving you with just the totals for each trip shown on the app. Start out now with a log showing start and end odometer readings for each and every shift.


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## 22531 (Jul 29, 2015)

Its pretty simple guys. If you can use a computer, you can use excel. Its free and easy to do. You have to track your odo when you start driving and when you quit. If you have a hard time remembering to track your mileage, take a picture of your odo when you start and end! Its simple! You need to get in the habit of logging each and every day you work because you arent making a ton of money doing this and you want to keep it all! If that is too much work or hard to remember, realize that itemizing is a lot harder.

Uber tax summary said I logged 1078 miles but I logged over 2300 in real life. Yeah I dont uber that much.


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## El Gato (Mar 5, 2016)

I've said it before too. You already have a phone mounted and if you don't want to take it down to take a picture for you iOS users just jot down your odometer readings via the notes app. Then just, transfer to excel spreadsheet. Example below.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

I keep a spread sheet and reset my trip odometer at the beginning of the first ride each day. At the end of the day I add that mileage to my spread sheet. My car gets a little use for personal, and I can easily show the difference between the Uber total and the odometer reading. My spread sheet shows more than double the mileage that Uber has for me. My total includes the mileage traveling to pick up the passenger, as well as dead head returns from distant drop offs.


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