# An Expert in Valuation Says Uber Is Only Worth $28 Billion, Not $62.5



## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n-valuation-says-uber-may-have-already-peaked


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

OMG the VCs are gathering at the gate! Quick shovel off more of losses onto drivers because that's a great way to hide the truth.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

I wager that once all the dust settles from the lawsuits, the government regs, etc... Uber won't even be worth close to that.


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## Drive777 (Jan 23, 2015)

Aside from the fact that Uber's not making any money, hopefully more people look at the business model and realize hey, $3 in a driver's pocket for 15 minutes of time spent hauling around strangers in the driver's car (before expenses) makes absolutely no sense.


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## volksie (Apr 8, 2015)

1 year ago, that's the exact dollar amount I predicted they'd be worth in mid 2017 & I DON'T know what I'm talking about. I'm surprised to hear that # so soon.
It's interesting that we all want this company to fail even though we earn money from it. That's how disliked Travis is!


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## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

Great Headline. How compute? Too bad the article doesn't tell how the professor calculated the $28 billion valuation. I say Uber valuation is much less, say zero. Don't ask how I calculated $0.00 or whether I just pulled the number out of my rectangle.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

I think at some point soon they will have to start raising rates. They just won't be able to make all their money off the leasing programs anymore and the venture capital is drying up fast.


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## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> I think at some point soon they will have to start raising rates. They just won't be able to make all their money off the leasing programs anymore and the venture capital is drying up fast.


I basically agree with your statement, but Uber doesn't because they are pushing two myths of lowering rates to grow profits. The myths are: One: Uber Pool is going to become wildly popular and Two: large fleets of automated cars will become available in the near future.

Take a ride with Johnny Cab.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Uber is worth -$12,000,000,000.00.


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> I think at some point soon they will have to start raising rates. They just won't be able to make all their money off the leasing programs anymore and the venture capital is drying up fast.


Didn't they just get a huge amount from the Saudi's?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

BurgerTiime said:


> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n-valuation-says-uber-may-have-already-peaked


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> I think at some point soon they will have to start raising rates. They just won't be able to make all their money off the leasing programs anymore and the venture capital is drying up fast.


Not if they can keep replacing burnt out grinders with more base rate driving drones. Rates won't go up significantly until driver stop driving at 1x. Thats the facts jacks.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> Didn't they just get a huge amount from the Saudi's?


Define huge.
They just took out a huge junk loan for billions as well.
Why would a company valued as 62 billion take out a junk loan at 4,9℅?


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## volksie (Apr 8, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> Didn't they just get a huge amount from the Saudi's?


They Did! I just got a Fifty Dollar Bill for my Bday and I didn't spend it wisely either!


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Define huge.
> They just took out a huge junk loan for billions as well.
> Why would a company valued as 62 billion take out a junk loan at 4,9℅?


$3.5 B, by most measures, is huge. 
The $1.5 B leveraged loan at 4.9% is certainly interesting. They take out loans to avoid diluting the investor pool. It's a simple business decision. Many companies do it.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> $3.5 B, by most measures, is huge.
> The $1.5 B leveraged loan at 4.9% is certainly interesting. They take out loans to avoid diluting the investor pool. It's a simple business decision. Many companies do it.


Oh yeah?
How many pre IPO companies valued at $62 billion do it?


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Uber is worth -$12,000,000,000.00.


This is the POOL rate adjusted number correct?

More attractive to potential group bids. personally I think they should have went with:

$11,999,999,999.99

Because market research shows that consumers are easily swayed idiots.


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## Rex8976 (Nov 11, 2014)




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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Oh yeah?
> How many pre IPO companies valued at $62 billion do it?


Since there is only one pre-IPO company valued at $62 billion, 100% do.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> Since there is only one pre-IPO company valued at $62 billion, 100% do.


Right.
So only one.
Carry on.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

DriverX said:


> This is the POOL rate adjusted number correct?
> 
> More attractive to potential group bids. personally I think they should have went with:
> 
> ...


You forgot the -.
My estimate was a negative integer.


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## Euius (May 19, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Oh yeah?
> How many pre IPO companies valued at $62 billion do it?


The highly valued pre-IPO companies are exactly the ones that do not want to dilute the investor pool, and thats why they take out a loan.


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Right.
> So only one.
> Carry on.


Don't be so smug. Given your constraints, there was only one possibility. In the business world it happens all the time.

Stockholders and investors don't want their shares diluted. Therefore, loans are fine.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

DriverX said:


> Not if they can keep replacing burnt out grinders with more base rate driving drones. Rates won't go up significantly until driver stop driving at 1x. Thats the facts jacks.


I think it'll reach a "tipping point" where the influx of new drivers will start to dry up and then dry up really quick. A lot of people still think that Uber drivers make decent money. I was one of them until I started driving. Once this delusion is fully debased among the general public, things will turn south fast.

I think it'll be like the Myspace exodus of around 2007. Myspace went from "cool" to "f*cking empty" in less than a year. I think the number of new drivers will fall off in a similar way. It just hasn't reached that tipping point yet.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> Don't be so smug. Given your constraints, there was only one possibility. In the business world it happens all the time.
> 
> Stockholders and investors don't want their shares diluted. Therefore, loans are fine.


Don't be a sore loser.
Here, I'll buy you a beer.
This is simply business son, don't take it personal.


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Don't be a sore loser.
> Here, I'll buy you a beer.
> This is simply business son, don't take it personal.


I'm 56, retired from 20+ years in the Army. I ain't your son. If I were, I'd be as lost as you.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> I'm 56, retired from 20+ years in the Army. I ain't your son. If I were, I'd be as lost as you.


Then why aren't you kicking back and enjoying your pension instead of on the road grinding?

or double dip with another Govt job, SIR


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

In school full time. Did the .gov job for 6 years. 

Uber for pocket money.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> I'm 56, retired from 20+ years in the Army. I ain't your son. If I were, I'd be as lost as you.


Tsk tsk.
Killing your car for 1972 taxi meter rates.
My meter was last increased in 2013.
Now tell me;
Which one of us is more lost?


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> In school full time. Did the .gov job for 6 years.
> 
> Uber for pocket money.


Your "pocket money" is a drivers kids lunch. You have a pension that supports you so thanks for being greedy as if 20 years on the Military welfare dime wasn't enough....

if you were in combat respect is due and I think you receive it with the extra level of care you get at the VA. Granted it has it's issues now, but that is due to the shoddy performance of the Representatives being put in Congress by largely Republican Administrations however these days, can we really tell the difference in either party when it comes to govt spending.

Bottom line is cut the Military by 35% and we'd be able to offer the same level service when all the BS settles. I'm sure you have ideas where the cuts could be made.


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Your "pocket money" is a drivers kids lunch. You have a pension that supports you so thanks for being greedy as if 20 years on the Military welfare dime wasn't enough....


I will work when and where I want. My pension does not do what I need. I'm also going to school on the GI Bill. I get full tuition and books, plus $1700 per month in living expenses. I'll start the semester tomorrow thinking that is you tax dollars at work. Thanks.


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Tsk tsk.
> Killing your car for 1972 taxi meter rates.
> My meter was last increased in 2013.
> Now tell me;
> Which one of us is more lost?


Still you sweetie. You think you know me. You don't.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> In school full time. Did the .gov job for 6 years.
> 
> Uber for pocket money.


Again, Uber is the perfect gig for people who don't really need money. Retirees and bored housewives.

Uber on.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> I will work when and where I want. My pension does not do what I need. I'm also going to school on the GI Bill. I get full tuition and books, plus $1700 per month in living expenses. I'll start the semester tomorrow thinking that is you tax dollars at work. Thanks.


 your welcome


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> Again, Uber is the perfect gig for people who don't really need money. Retirees and bored housewives.
> 
> Uber on.


I would agree with that assessment except the word need. Expenses in life are divided into wants and needs. My Uber income is for wants, not needs.

If I'm taking some Uber driver's kid's lunch money, I'd tell the kid to tell the parents to get a real job.


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> your welcome


You're.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> Still you sweetie. You think you know me. You don't.


A line straight out of the Jerry Springer guest playbook.
That's a mighty fine trailer ya got there!


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

m1a1mg said:


> Uber for pocket money.


I think a person would have to be certifiably insane to do Uber if they didn't absolutely need the money. However this is the main and most obvious problem for the Rideshare business. The barrier to entry is so low that you get people who do it as a hobby. this wrecks any potential it has to be a job that pays a living wage.


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

Flarpy said:


> I think a person would have to be certifiably insane to do Uber if they didn't absolutely need the money. However this is the main and most obvious problem for the Rideshare business. The barrier to entry is so low that you get people who do it as a hobby. this wrecks any potential it has to be a job that pays a living wage.


It may. Go find a real career and quit expecting the world to give you things. Life is all about success for the strong. Those who work harder, study longer, and sacrifice get further ahead than those who sit around bleating about how things are unfair.

Uber has done away with their "driving as a career" business mode and switched to a "make some extra money" model. Do try to keep up, K?


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

m1a1mg said:


> It may. Go find a real career and quit expecting the world to give you things. Life is all about success for the strong. Those who work harder, study longer, and sacrifice get further ahead than those who sit around bleating about how things are unfair.
> 
> Uber has done away with their "driving as a career" business mode and switched to a "make some extra money" model. Do try to keep up, K?


Snark may be fun to write but it's not convincing.



> Life is all about success for the strong. Those who work harder, study longer, and sacrifice get further ahead


This is precisely the problem I've been addressing in my threads lately. It's a race to the bottom with regard to life enjoyment. When people such as yourself have no desires in life other than to consume and then have to work extra hours and mindless jobs to get more and more and more... it makes life much more difficult for those of us who have no desire to consume and consume and consume. Because we have to slave away just to be able to keep up.

You sir are fast approaching your expiration date and will be six feet under within a couple of decades. Something tells me that you'll wish you spent less time doing mindless jobs like Ubering to make "pocket money" and more time enjoying life by spending time with loved ones, appreciating our culture, and generally expanding your mind.



> Life is all about success for the strong. Those who work harder, study longer, and sacrifice get further ahead


A culture which promotes this statement is not a culture to be proud of.


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

Flarpy said:


> Snark may be fun to write but it's not convincing.
> 
> This is precisely the problem I've been addressing in my threads lately. It's a race to the bottom with regard to life enjoyment. When people such as yourself have no desires in life other than to consume and then have to work extra hours and mindless jobs to get more and more and more... it makes life much more difficult for those of us who have no desire to consume and consume and consume. Because we have to slave away just to be able to keep up.
> 
> ...


Snark is fun. Especially when dealing with people who just don't get it.

I work a maximum of 20 hour a week driving Uber. I go to school roughly 15 hours of class time a week. I study maybe 30 hours. That leaves me many hours to do as I please.

I do not consume, consume, consume. In fact, I don't really care about material things. I do lots of different things with my money. None of which is any of your business. You assume, assume, assume over and over on all of your threads. I tithe 10% minimum every year, but not to a church. I prefer to donate to charity. Especially charities that help the hungry and Veterans.

But all of that is immaterial. Your complaints are falling on deaf ears. You want people to accept less in their lives so you can have more. I say maybe you just need to work harder and EARN more yourself.

And finally, a culture that rewards performance versus one that rewards existence is one I am proud to be from. I just have a feeling your life is not going to turn out well.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> It may. Go find a real career and quit expecting the world to give you things. Life is all about success for the strong. Those who work harder, study longer, and sacrifice get further ahead than those who sit around bleating about how things are unfair.
> 
> Uber has done away with their "driving as a career" business mode and switched to a "make some extra money" model. Do try to keep up, K?


I'd pay money to never meet you in person.


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## thelittleguyhelper (Aug 6, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Oh yeah?
> How many pre IPO companies valued at $62 billion do it?


Plenty of tens-billions dollar companies do this kind of thing. e.g. DISH is notorious for issuing bonds with 10% interest or taking loans to avoid dilution.

Remember, to a business, a loan's interest is...deductible.


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## thelittleguyhelper (Aug 6, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I'd pay money to never meet you in person.


I've actually found that you WANT to listen, thoroughly, to people entirely different from you and their reasons. Right or wrong, it vastly expands your mind and typically lets you think of more people as AWESOME even if they are totally wrong about a lot of things. Try it and see. It IS immensely difficult at first but, well see what I write here...now imagine me sitting with old hard-lefty literature-master drunk postal bureaucrats talking smack and just enjoying the company.

On occassion, you even discover that for some counter-intuitive reason or for context or some facts you didn't know, they're totally right; often the reasoning is totally wrong...but they're still right or they're looking at things better than you.


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## flexian (Aug 16, 2016)

Don't know how I found this thread, but WOW it makes me want to leave the country. A lot of people saw this coming, I wish I had taken their advice more seriously a lot earlier....


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

thelittleguyhelper said:


> I've actually found that you WANT to listen, thoroughly, to people entirely different from you and their reasons. Right or wrong, it vastly expands your mind and typically lets you think of more people as AWESOME even if they are totally wrong about a lot of things. Try it and see. It IS immensely difficult at first but, well see what I write here...now imagine me sitting with old hard-lefty literature-master drunk postal bureaucrats talking smack and just enjoying the company.
> 
> On occassion, you even discover that for some counter-intuitive reason or for context or some facts you didn't know, they're totally right; often the reasoning is totally wrong...but they're still right or they're looking at things better than you.


Thanks for the offer but nope.


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## hounddogman (Aug 23, 2016)

TwoFiddy, do you like Charlotte? Have only driven through or stopped in the airport before.


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## hounddogman (Aug 23, 2016)

Sorry I am new, might not have been the proper venue for that.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

hounddogman said:


> TwoFiddy, do you like Charlotte? Have only driven through or stopped in the airport before.


Charlotte is a great place.
We built a custom House for $140,000. 2500 square feet.
Now that's a working middle class neighborhood.
Can get a house in the hood $50,000 and up, buy a baby McMansion in Ballantyne for $700,000.00.
The American dream is alive here
(Except for my being stuck in a taxi).


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## hounddogman (Aug 23, 2016)

Thanks man, had no idea about the town or area.


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## thelittleguyhelper (Aug 6, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Thanks for the offer but nope.


It wasn't an offer. I'm actually glad most people don't. Means they cannot outcompete me.


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Your "pocket money" is a drivers kids lunch. You have a pension that supports you so thanks for being greedy as if 20 years on the Military welfare dime wasn't enough....


There ain't one damn person I know who isn't greedy. Would you gladly accept $1 million? Would you still want more? Damn right you would.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

thelittleguyhelper said:


> It wasn't an offer. I'm actually glad most people don't. Means they cannot outcompete me.


I'm not in competition with you.
Don't want to know you.
You are selling but I'm not buying.


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## thelittleguyhelper (Aug 6, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I'm not in competition with you.
> Don't want to know you.
> You are selling but I'm not buying.


I was talking about an entirely different industry, and I won't ever be selling anything on a forum like this. lol


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

thelittleguyhelper said:


> I was talking about an entirely different industry, and I won't ever be selling anything on a forum like this. lol


You took my post too literally.
Methinks you are an AI programmed to be John Galt.


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