# How much should Uber compensate Uber drivers?



## 11pennymile (Aug 25, 2017)

*How much should Uber compensate Uber drivers
for allowing total strangers to treat them like fast food workers in their own cars?*

*In short:*
As a point of reference,
to meet US Federal Minimum Wage of $7.25/hour, Uber would have to pay the Uber driver:
$1.06 per mile loaded, actually transporting customer to break even on auto expenses and
$0.24 per minute driving loaded, actually transporting customer
$0.12 per minute online, waiting ready for a customer (like a cashier at McD's).

But as it is, Uber is paying drivers in Tulsa:
$0.64 per mile loaded, actually transporting customer ($0.44 per mile less than auto expenses)
$0.08 per minute driving loaded, actually transporting customer (=$4.80/hour)
$0.00 per minute driving empty, on way to pick up customer (=$0.00/hour)
$0.56 per customer for waiting available online for next ride request and everything else.

*Here is the full breakdown*

*Auto Expenses*
Auto Expenses empty = $0.53 per mile*
Auto Expenses loaded = $0.53 per mile*

*IRS 2017-standard-mileage-rates-for-business: Based on an annual study of the fixed and variable costs of operating an automobile, the IRS has calculated that it costs approximately 53.4 cents per mile to operate your vehicle for business use, (the Standard Mileage Rate). This number is pretty accurate, yes you can do better probably as low as $0.49 but not lower then that. And before you jump and cry "Prius!" remember the $0.08/mile you save on gas is offset by the higher cost of a Hybrid car. Someone smart enough to buy a cheap & usable used car and do all repairs & maintenance himself might be able to bring that $0.42 loss per paid mile down a bit. But such a person might also realize that the $0.56 to Uber pays to pick up the customer and $0.08 per minute with the customer is below the value of his additional labor and remaining auto expenses.

On average, for each paid mile driven loaded with a customer, there is an unpaid mile driven empty to pick that customer up. That is, two miles are actually driven in order to transport a customer one mile. Because there is one mile driven empty ($0.53) for every one mile driven loaded ($0.53), the actual auto expenses to transport a customer one mile are $1.06 per mile.

Total auto expenses
= $0.53 per mile driving empty to pick up + $0.53 per mile loaded with customer
= 2 x $0.53 per mile driving loaded with customer
= $1.06 per mile driving loaded with customer.

So, just to break even on the auto expenses involved with transporting customers, the Uber driver must receive $1.06 for every mile the customer is actually transported. (This is also what it would cost Uber to break even should they purchase & operate their own driverless cars instead of relying upon Uber drivers to provide the cars). In Tulsa, Uber pays $0.64 for this, the driver unwittingly giving away the remaining $0.42 per paid mile in auto expenses.

*Time Driving*
As independent contractors, Uber drivers are actually operating their own small business with responsibilities and risks well beyond that of employees such as paying their own social security taxes, etc. As continually reviewed small businessmen with a significant investment in providing and operating their own vehicles in heavy traffic and lonesome back roads, confined with total strangers, what is reasonable compensation for the time driving?

$20/hour driving = $0.33 per minute driving
$15/hour driving = $0.25 per minute driving
$10/hour driving = $0.17 per minute driving
$7.25/hour driving = $0.12 per minute driving
$4.80/hour driving = $0.08 per minute driving

(Uber pays $0.08 per minute ($4.80/hour) to drive loaded with customer in car in Tulsa.
Uber pays $0.00 per minute ($0.00/hour) to drive empty to pick up customer in Tulsa).

Based upon the formula mentioned previously that one mile is driven empty to pick up a customer for every mile driven loaded actually transporting the customer, we can estimate, also, that it takes one minute of driving empty to pick up a customer for every minute it takes driving loaded to actually transport a customer.

Total time driving to provide service
= Time driving empty to pick up + Time driving loaded to transport
= 2 x Time driving loaded actually transporting customer.

This means that to include compensation for the unloaded driving time to pick up the customer, the driver must be paid two times the compensation for the loaded driving time actually tranporting the customer.

Total Driving = 2 x Time driving loaded actually transporting customer.

$20/hour total driving compensation
= $20/hour driving empty to pick up +$20/hour driving loaded with customer
= 2 x $20/hour driving loaded with customer
= 2 x $0.33 per minute driving loaded with customer
= $0.66 per minute driving loaded with customer

$15/hour total driving compensation
= $15/hour driving empty to pick up +$15/hour driving loaded with customer
= 2 x $15/hour driving loaded with customer
= 2 x $0.25 per minute driving loaded with customer
= $0.50 per minute driving loaded with customer

$10/hour total driving compensation
= $10/hour driving empty to pick up +$10/hour driving loaded with customer
= 2 x $10/hour driving loaded with customer
= 2 x $0.17 per minute driving loaded with customer
= $0.34 per minute driving loaded with customer

$7.25/hour total driving compensation
= $7.25/hour driving empty to pick up +$7.25/hour driving loaded with customer
= 2 x $7.25/hour driving loaded with customer
= 2 x $0.12 per minute driving loaded with customer
= $0.24 per minute driving loaded with customer

(Uber pays $0.08 per minute (=$4.80/hour) driving loaded with customer in car in Tulsa.
Uber pays $0.00 per minute driving empty to pick up customer in Tulsa.
This means that Uber's actual compensation for the total time driven to both pick up the customer and then transport him is $0.04 per minute or $2.40/hour. This $2.40/hour driving time is what Uber can save by eliminating the driver by employing driverless cars).

$2.40/hour total driving compensation
= $0.00/hour driving empty to pick up +$4.80/hour driving loaded with customer
= 2 x $2.40/hour driving loaded with customer
= 2 x $0.04 per minute driving loaded with customer
= $0.08 per minute driving loaded with customer
= what Uber pays Uber drivers in Tulsa

*Time Waiting*
What about the Uber driver's time waiting around making himself ready & available for the next ride request? Experience has shown this can be anywhere from zero waiting to an hour and half or longer to get the next ride request "ping." (Uber pays $0.56 per customer for this in Tulsa).

What would be reasonable for the independent contractor, small businessman, Uber driver's time to wait available to provide service to the next customer? Each driver can decide that for himself. But one can see now why the compensation for total time driving must be strong enough to make up for these weak times in business.

*Conclusion:*
As a point of reference,
to meet US Federal Minimum Wage of $7.25/hour, Uber would have to pay the Uber driver:
$1.06 per mile loaded, actually transporting customer to break even on auto expenses and
$0.24 per minute driving loaded, actually transporting customer
$0.12 per minute online, waiting ready for a customer (like a cashier at McD's).

But as it is, Uber is paying drivers in Tulsa:
$0.64 per mile loaded, actually transporting customer ($0.44 per mile less than auto expenses)
$0.08 per minute driving loaded, actually transporting customer (=$4.80/hour)
$0.00 per minute driving empty, on way to pick up customer (=$0.00/hour)
$0.56 per customer for waiting available online for next ride request and everything else.

I hope the reader is able to make an informed decision about driving for Uber.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Uber is a for profit business. Like all for profit businesses, their sole purpose is to generate the maximum income for the company. They shouldn't pay a penny more than they choose. If they pay too little, there will be a shortage of drivers and they will lose customers. If they pay too much, they will go out of business. An employer can have too many employees and too big of a payroll. As contractors, their is no payroll. They can't have too many drivers.

To say it another way, if Uber needs drivers, they will create incentives to get drivers. The easiest incentive is a higher rate to the driver. If Uber has a surplus of drivers, they are free to lower the rate to the drivers until they have just enough drivers.

Both businesses, contractors, and employees have choices. They can accept what is offered, counter offer, or decline. You can accept what Uber offers. They'd be happy to have another driver. Or you can counter offer to Uber. They will reject your counter, laugh at you, and use a different contractor. Or you can drive for Uber's competition. Drivers have choices. Uber has choices. Each acts in their own best interest, no nanny needed.

The math isn't real tough. Its based on the principle that people will buy less of an item as the cost of the item increases. The opposite is also true, people will buy more of an item the less expensive it is, up to a point. This is human nature and the basis of a free market.

The problem isn't with Uber, they're doing what businesses do, its with the drivers. I think some must be math challenged. In order to determine profit from a business, one must know the income and costs to create the income. The income is fairly easy, base fare + x * miles + y * minutes. Costs are a bit more difficult but still not tough, just takes a bit of estimating. Using the IRS's allowance is not proper. The variable cost to drive UberX shouldn't be more than $0.25 per mile but each person/car can be different. A 10 year old Corrolla will be much cheaper to operate than a new Lincoln.

Another point to consider. Some would drive if Uber paid $0. Why? That's where the $0.53 per mile comes in to play. If someone will owe the IRS money, they can drive, take the deduction, and reduce the debt. If it costs $0.20 to drive a mile and you can deduct $0.53 for that mile ...

I think its nuts to drive strangers around in a fairly nice car for peanuts. The most dangerous thing the typical person does in a day is commute to work in a car. Throw in a stranger, looking for addresses, responding to pings, etc. and an Uber driver is at high risk for an accident. Some say driving for a day is equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes. The risk vs. reward is skewed heavily to the risk side. But some have few other options. Some don't realize the risk. Some can't calculate the reward. Some can calculate and realize the tax benefits.

Uber knows what its doing. Do the drivers?

As for minimum wage laws, ugh. Even if law makers have good intentions, the results speak otherwise. Minimum wage laws increase unemployment and/or reduce the hours worked for the minimum wage earners. The laws hurt those that its trying to protect. There are better ways to help the poor and stimulate the economy at the same time.


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## 11pennymile (Aug 25, 2017)

bsliv said:


> if Uber needs drivers, they will create incentives to get drivers. The easiest incentive is a higher rate to the driver.


It might be easier still for Uber to just remain quiet about how Uber drivers are actually compensated as well as their true expenses to drive.



bsliv said:


> I think its nuts to drive strangers around in a fairly nice car for peanuts. The most dangerous thing the typical person does in a day is commute to work in a car. Throw in a stranger, looking for addresses, responding to pings, etc. and an Uber driver is at high risk for an accident. Some say driving for a day is equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes. The risk vs. reward is skewed heavily to the risk side.


My wife saw this right away and disapproved of anything Uber. I overrode her concerns with naive hope, but realized on my first completed Uber drive the math involved, (along with the risks and attitude of customers and the associated Uber rating system). Expecting around $15 and a hearty, "Thank you!", I received $3.75 and a text from Uber asking if I had honestly felt ready on that first run. I knew right there what it was all about. Each Uber drive after that just confirmed everything learned from that first Uber drive.



bsliv said:


> Uber knows what its doing. Do the drivers?


And that's what this is all about here.

We might need some kind of mandatory information to be posted on all Uber driver recruiting advertising, similar to the warning statements on cigarette advertising or the nutritional labels on foods. Something like the following might be a fair start:

*Uber is paying drivers in Tulsa:
$0.64 per mile driving loaded, actually transporting customer ($0.11 per mile above IRS-calculated auto expenses)
$0.00 per mile driving empty to pick up customer ($0.53 per mile below IRS-calculated auto expenses)
$0.08 per minute driving loaded, actually transporting customer (=$4.80/hour)
$0.00 per minute driving empty, on way to pick up customer (=$0.00/hour)
$0.56 per customer for everything else.
Each delivery is subject to rating 1-5 by customers.
Should average customer rating fall below 4.5, driver is subject to immediate termination.*

Thanks and I enjoyed your reply. Good night!


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Uber's business model revolves around paying as little as possible to get their customers picked up as fast as possible,

It's also dependent on people having no clue how much it takes to operate an automobile long term as a taxi (let's be honest here)

Sad to say, you are both preaching to the choir and beating a dead horse.

Uber will not raise rates to the levels that you want to see, and experience has shown me they will only lower them.

"There's a sucker born every minute" (possibly said by PT Barnum of Barnum and Baily circus)

In Orlando the math is so abysmal that without surges the BREAK EVEN cost you have to run a car on is 16c a mile... YES THE BREAK EVEN..

I have never in all my time on my forums seen an inclusive cost per mile breakdown that comes to 16c a mile.

_*1/3 of miles are paid*_ (long term averages here, Orlando is REALLY terrible about excessive unpaid mileage.)
(It's very hard to explain how this happens, basically if you go 15 minutes in any direction except directly north/south on I4 (its an EW road that runs N-S through Orlando ish) you end up in the boonies or the hood... or even worse at UCF which is home to MIN trips all day long). That on top of there being like ZERO people who go TO The theme parks for the last few hours they are open, plus a huge number of people leaving them... unpaid miles in orlando is a huge issue...HUGE... There's also the issue of the airport... Most trips from the airport go 10+ miles and the rate paid is still 48c per mile 8 c per minute..

Who goes to the airport between 5:00 PM and 2:00 AM?
Who goes FROM the airport between 5:00 AM and 10:00 AM

The awnser is almost no one, this is another huge source of empty miles..

Driving smarter doesn't fix it either. If you get a ping 5 minutes and 3 miles away your going to take it... Then it's a min trip going 2 miles... and you get paid <$3.00 for 10-15 minutes of your time.. Or you get a pickup from downtown and it goes like 10 miles away, you get like $6.00- 8.00 and your in the boonies again at 2:00 AM.

(with the insurance option taken, and 25% to uber)

69c per mile
11c per minute

48c per mile
8c per minute.
32c (to recoup unpaid miles)
16c (to cover the mile being driven)

That leaves you earning a mere 8c per minute you have a customer in the car, or .80c for 10 minutes... $4.20 for an hour... realistically you might get two 10 minute trips per hour here so that's like $1.60 in time...

Basically so close to break even it's pathetic...

Even with 20c a mile you still can't show a profit in Orlando...

40c (to cover unpaid miles)
20c (to cover paid miles)

60c per mile
Minus

48c per mile paid
8c per minute (at 60 MPH)

56-72c per mile (depending on the speed of travel)

loss of 4c- profit +12c per mile depending on the average speed of the trip...

_*So a 10 mile trip at 20 MPH taking you 30 minutes would net you a profit of $1.20*_


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## 1rightwinger (Jul 13, 2015)

You put a lot of work into this post. But you are wrong on one of the main underlying assumptions....that it truly costs .54 per mile to drive a car. There are many many drivers doing it for a lot less than .54/mile. . It is very simple on how to make good money (well above min wage). 1) drive a low cost used vehicle...as old as possible in good shape. 2) tips. 3) surge rates. Obviously markets are different in terms of how people tip and how many surge rides you get. I'm not arguing that. there are places it would suck to be a driver and there are places where many drivers are making very good money.


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## 11pennymile (Aug 25, 2017)

Mear's Troll,
Haha haaaa! I started out laughing .... then just feel sad about it at the end. Aaaaah, the tears of a clown. Its just like Tulsa.

I don't want to give more details of my exact experience with Uber because I don't want to make anybody feel bad, (or worse than they already do), I just want to make the facts obvious for any Uber drivers who might not have figured it out yet. (All my customers seemed to have had it figured out all along - its like I was the butt of a joke that I alone didn't understand). My heart just goes out to those Uber drivers I saw sitting in their shiny, new SUV's at the Tulsa airport cell phone lot, waiting patiently through a queue of 13 for an hour-and-a-half, detailing their cars with care or sitting there resigned to their fate, to finally take their exit to transport someone downtown for $7 gross revenue Uber pay. Sniff... This post's for you guys.



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Uber's business model revolves around paying as little as possible to get their customers picked up as fast as possible,
> 
> It's also dependent on people having no clue how much it takes to operate an automobile long term as a taxi (let's be honest here)


Maybe this could be added to a government-mandated label attached to all Uber advertising.
And not just for driver recruitment advertising, but also for conscience-aware Uber riders, as well as any solicitations to investors, or any future stock offerings.

But I got the unspoken impression from all my customers that they already knew this.


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## Part Time AZ (Aug 27, 2017)

11pennymile said:


> *How much should Uber compensate Uber drivers
> for allowing total strangers to treat them like fast food workers in their own cars?*
> 
> *In short:*
> ...


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## 11pennymile (Aug 25, 2017)

1rightwinger said:


> You put a lot of work into this post. But you are wrong on one of the main underlying assumptions....that it truly costs .54 per mile to drive a car. There are many many drivers doing it for a lot less than .54/mile. . It is very simple on how to make good money (well above min wage). 1) drive a low cost used vehicle...as old as possible in good shape. 2) tips. 3) surge rates. Obviously markets are different in terms of how people tip and how many surge rides you get. I'm not arguing that. there are places it would suck to be a driver and there are places where many drivers are making very good money.


Perhaps the IRS would pay out a consulting fee to help them close an unnecessary loophole. Who knows? But they have a team at it for many years now -and have every incentive to calculate the number as low as possible- so they may as well be regarded as the experts on the subject. Anyone smart enough to beat the IRS at the accounting game should be smart enough to see the writing on the wall regarding the real-world profitability of driving for Uber. For those not smart enough, and drawn towards driving for Uber, their costs per mile of auto business use might be higher. So I believe its fair to go with the IRS estimates here.

Just to restate:

*IRS 2017-standard-mileage-rates-for-business: Based on an annual study of the fixed and variable costs of operating an automobile, the IRS has calculated that it costs approximately 53.4 cents per mile to operate your vehicle for business use, (the Standard Mileage Rate). This number is pretty accurate, yes you can do better probably as low as $0.49 but not lower then that. And before you jump and cry "Prius!" remember the $0.08/mile you save on gas is offset by the higher cost of a Hybrid car. Someone smart enough to buy a cheap & usable used car and do all repairs & maintenance himself might be able to bring that $0.42 loss per paid mile down a bit. But such a person might also realize that the $0.56 to Uber pays to pick up the customer and $0.08 per minute with the customer is below the value of his additional labor and remaining auto expenses.

On average, for each paid mile driven loaded with a customer, there is an unpaid mile driven empty to pick that customer up. That is, two miles are actually driven in order to transport a customer one mile. Because there is one mile driven empty ($0.53) for every one mile driven loaded ($0.53), the actual auto expenses to transport a customer one mile are $1.06 per mile.

Total auto expenses
= $0.53 per mile driving empty to pick up + $0.53 per mile loaded with customer
= 2 x $0.53 per mile driving loaded with customer
= $1.06 per mile driving loaded with customer.

So, just to break even on the auto expenses involved with transporting customers, the Uber driver must receive $1.06 for every mile the customer is actually transported. (This is also what it would cost Uber to break even should they purchase & operate their own driverless cars instead of relying upon Uber drivers to provide the cars). In Tulsa, Uber pays $0.64 for this, the driver unwittingly giving away the remaining $0.42 per paid mile in auto expenses.

*Tips*
And relying on charitable tips to have a chance at breaking even and beyond? <self-edited out of respect for the reader and for those persons who are truly down and out>. Just saying. A small business carrying significant risk like this simply cannot rely upon charitable gifts whenever customers are heart-touched to give, especially when the Uber customer is someone actively looking for a deal from a stranger - instead of a taxi.

Suffice it to say that someone smart & dedicated enough to separate an Uber customer from his money and receive an actual tip -tips worth staying in this business for- is someone smart & dedicated enough to have a good chance at properly valueing his time, investments & efforts.

*Other Markets, making good money*
If there are Uber drivers out there making good money, that's cool. I trust they're doing something else than read this.
But if there's an Uber driver out there sitting, sitting in an airport queue, searching with his smartphone, reading, wondering if there's something missing in his understanding of ever making Uber driving profitable, I am just adding my $0.02 towards helping him understand.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

The IRS is using $0.535 for each business mile. They also calculated $0.17/mile for medical or moving expenses and $0.14/mile for charitable services. Why the difference? I have a few ideas.

The amounts are based on a averages. Some passenger vehicles cost nearly $20 per mile to run. 

I suggest it costs much more to drive a typical business mile than a typical personal mile. I suggest the typical business car is a new, luxury car, leased. What is the most expensive type of car to operate? A new, luxury car, leased.

The $0.535 includes taxes/fees, insurance, depreciation, maintenance, and repairs. Since we pay a fixed amount in taxes/fees and insurance to operate our cars for personal use, they are not a direct cost to drive for Uber. Taxes/fees and insurance are very high for a new, luxury car.

The medical and moving allowance is probably the average cost to drive for personal cars (not business). Charities run on a shoestring budget, meaning cheap cars, cheap maintenance, and self repairs. 

Most UberX cars are not new, luxury cars on a lease. Most UberX cars are better than the typical personal car. I think our cost to drive is closer to medical/moving (personal cars) rate than the business rate (new, luxury, lease).


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## Part Time AZ (Aug 27, 2017)

Both Uber and Lyft in Phoenix charge riders .09/minute and and .95/mile. Then pays the driver 75% of that. Fill out this audit form for each hour you drive to confirm how little you will earn. (Oops ad .40 for pickup fee)


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## SecondChances (Aug 27, 2017)

Then don't drive for them. Simple.
Uber is best used as a part time job, the way Surging works you are literally competing agaisn t your own pay the more you drive. I agree with most of your reasons OP but it's not Uber's fault it's the people. Everyone that chooses to do Uber full time are incapable or unwilling to work other jobs so that's your own fault. I personal drive Uber only Friday night and Saturday and keep my mon-friday job. I averaged about 10 hours a week and after a month I make enough to pay for the car payment itself (yes after Gas). All the wear and tear does not bother me as it is paying for the car itself and I have the car to work my other 40hr / week job plus eveyrthing else with owning a nice car gives me.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

bsliv said:


> The IRS is using $0.535 for each business mile.
> 
> I suggest it costs much more to drive a typical business mile than a typical personal mile..


BSlives then goes on to argue that Uber miles are not business miles.


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## Part Time AZ (Aug 27, 2017)

SecondChances said:


> Then don't drive for them. Simple.
> Uber is best used as a part time job, the way Surging works you are literally competing agaisn t your own pay the more you drive. I agree with most of your reasons OP but it's not Uber's fault it's the people. Everyone that chooses to do Uber full time are incapable or unwilling to work other jobs so that's your own fault. I personal drive Uber only Friday night and Saturday and keep my mon-friday job. I averaged about 10 hours a week and after a month I make enough to pay for the car payment itself (yes after Gas). All the wear and tear does not bother me as it is paying for the car itself and I have the car to work my other 40hr / week job plus eveyrthing else with owning a nice car gives me.


I moved to the State a year ago and started driving part time to learn the Valley. The people here are awesome and what an awesome way to educate yourself on the tourist sites like Sedona and Grand Canyon. But.....this $35/hour ad is what's concerning.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

UberProphet? said:


> BSlives then goes on to argue that Uber miles are not business miles.


UberPooper has a comprehension issue. If I have to explain the difference between the typical business car, typical uber car, typical charity car, and typical personal car, again, I will.


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## Part Time AZ (Aug 27, 2017)

bsliv said:


> UberPooper has a comprehension issue. If I have to explain the difference between the typical business car, typical uber car, typical charity car, and typical personal car, again, I will.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

bsliv said:


> UberPooper has a comprehension issue. If I have to explain the difference between the typical business car, typical uber car, typical charity car, and typical personal car, again, I will.


BSlives now claims Ubers miles are not business miles. It's not a business.

Uber drivers can't unionize because it's not employment, it's your own business.

I'm confused!


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

UberProphet? said:


> BSlives now claims Ubers miles are not business miles. It's not a business.
> 
> Uber drivers can't unionize because it's not employment, it's your own business.
> 
> I'm confused!


If you are referring to me, I made no such claims. I agree, you're confused.
Perhaps if you don't understand something, you should ask a question instead of making an incorrect assumption and spreading misinformation.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Part Time AZ said:


> But.....this $35/hour ad is what's concerning.


It's not concerning at all. That ad is, as Lisa Vito in My Cousin Vinny said, "Dead on balls accurate." Make *UP TO *$35/hr. Isn't making minimum wage the same as making up to $35/hr?

I think many Uber drivers such as yourself were sleeping that day they taught reading comprehension in elementary school.


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## u-Boat (Jan 4, 2016)

SecondChances said:


> Then don't drive for them. Simple. Uber is best used as a part time job, the way Surging works you are literally competing against your own pay the more you drive. I agree with most of your reasons OP but it's not Uber's fault it's the people.


Yeah blame the people! It's the people's fault they make peanuts driving uBer. People are 100% responsible for low rates and algorithm-based pricing. People are stupid and uBer is awesome. Long live uBer! 
#worklessmakemore
#workmoremakeless
#simpledontdrive
#stupiduberpeople.net
#driveforprofit?whaaaattt


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Let's cut to the chase.

Uber and Lyft pay drivers poorly because they can.

And the reason they can is the continuous influx of large numbers of legal Third World Immigrants.

More than 50% of rideshare drivers are immigrants from the Third World.

Uber knows they can replace disgruntled drivers with legal immigrants.

Few illegal immigrants drive rideshare, so they're not really a factor in driver's pay.

If immigration is sharply reduced, the supply of drivers will start to plummet, which will force the companies to pay drivers a good wage.

Economics 101 : Large supply of drivers= lower pay, small supply of drivers = higher pay


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Let's cut to the chase.
> 
> If immigration is sharply reduced, the supply of drivers will start to plummet, which will force the companies to pay drivers a good wage.


I have to disagree. There are nearly 4 million people becoming of legal age to drive for Uber every year in the U.S. Even if only 1% of them try Uber that's 40,000 new drivers every year. In Metro Phoenix I would estimate that 80% of rideshare drivers are Caucasian.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> Let's cut to the chase.
> 
> Uber and Lyft pay drivers poorly because they can.
> 
> ...


Take your Alt-Right BullsPit back to whatever cave you came out of!


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I have to disagree. There are nearly 4 million people becoming of legal age to drive for Uber every year in the U.S. Even if only 1% of them try Uber that's 40,000 new drivers every year. In Metro Phoenix I would estimate that 80% of rideshare drivers are Caucasian.


According to the NYC Drivers Guild, 90% of UberX drivers are immigrants

Uber Seattle general manager said the "vast majority of Uber drivers are immigrants"

Here in the DC market, the percentage is higher than 50%



UberProphet? said:


> Take your Alt-Right BullsPit back to whatever cave you came out of!


Facts are a tough thing to argue with

Immigrants who are already here working for Uber are themselves being hurt by newcomers, who supply Uber with the fresh bodies to keep wages down.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> According to the NYC Drivers Guild, 90% of UberX drivers are immigrants
> 
> Facts are a tough thing to argue with


Probably because 90% of NYC's population are immigrants.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Probably because 90% of NYC's population are immigrants.


Not true


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Uber Seattle general manager said the "vast majority of Uber drivers are immigrants"
> 
> Facts are a tough thing to argue with


That's because the vast majority of the non immigrant population is too busy getting stoned.



Nats121 said:


> Not true


I'm joking. I can't speak for other cities, but here in Phoenix we are completely different and always have been. I think it's the 115 degree summers and the conceal carry laws that keep many immigrants away.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> That's because the vast majority of the non immigrant population is too busy getting stoned.
> 
> I'm joking. I can't speak for other cities, but here in Phoenix we are completely different and always have been. I think it's the 115 degree summers and the conceal carry laws that keep many immigrants away.


I don't know much about Phoenix, but I doubt carry and conceal is keeping legal immigrants away from Phoenix


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> I don't know much about Phoenix, but I doubt carry and conceal is keeping legal immigrants away from Phoenix


It kept the Bloods and Crips away in the 80's and early 90's when they migrated from LA to every metropolitan area in the country except Phoenix.


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## SecondChances (Aug 27, 2017)

aren't we al l immigrants to some degree lol. I don't know why that's even brought up. I from L A area and I use Uber 1-3 times a weeek and I drive on Saturdays mostly some fridays Most drivers are fluent English not a lot of new comers like these forums exaggerate it to be. Immigrants? unless you Native American you are an immigrant by your own definition.


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