# IRS is auditing me for 2017 tax year



## Harry Seaward

Just got a notice that I'm being audited for my mileage for 2017. I used an app to track my mileage, so I'm covered, but just wanted to let people know to be prepared, don't BS your mileage and to hang on to your records.


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## SHalester

In that year how many miles did u have?


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## 25rides7daysaweek

Did you claim a bunch of miles with little or no income?


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## Uberdriver914

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Did you claim a bunch of miles with little or no income?


Just curious but don't we use a bunch of miles already with little income? Not trying to be funny this is a serious question. Bc I used like 16-17k miles and made just around 20k I believe. So what falls under claiming a bunch of miles with little income, just curious.


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## kingcorey321

Uberdriver914 said:


> Just curious but don't we use a bunch of miles already with little income? Not trying to be funny this is a serious question. Bc I used like 16-17k miles and made just around 20k I believe. So what falls under claiming a bunch of miles with little income, just curious.


i showed 20k and claimed 40k miles . The turbo tax give a audio scale 1 to 10 and i was 2 .


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## John oceans

If you don't use uber's standard mile on trip then they will audit you.


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## Uberdriver914

John oceans said:


> If you don't use uber's standard mile on trip then they will audit you.


This is good to know!


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## Friendly Jack

John oceans said:


> If you don't use uber's standard mile on trip then they will audit you.


I think it would be reasonable to guess that there were millions of drivers who didn't use Uber's "miles on trip" data provided. Are you saying that the IRS is going to audit all of those drivers? If so, how do you know this? Even though I quit rideshare several months ago, I did file a 2019 tax return which did not utilize the Uber-provided "miles on trip", as I did every year since 2014 and I have never been audited.


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## Coachman

I use the Uber calculated mileage and that's more than enough for my purposes.


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## DriverMark

Coachman said:


> I use the Uber calculated mileage and that's more than enough for my purposes.


Likewise..... it's generally enough to ensure I get a tax return at the end of the day. Keep them taxes simple.....


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## 25rides7daysaweek

Uberdriver914 said:


> Just curious but don't we use a bunch of miles already with little income? Not trying to be funny this is a serious question. Bc I used like 16-17k miles and made just around 20k I believe. So what falls under claiming a bunch of miles with little income, just curious.


I was just kind of wondering if you might have had a 50 mile commute to work and were using uber w destination filter to get the write off on the miles.
Like trying to write off $20k 35k miles
w only $10k income.
They may be asking about the miles but do you have any idea what triggered it?
My ##s are a lot higher than yours 
but the % are similar.


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## [email protected]

Harry Seaward said:


> Just got a notice that I'm being audited for my mileage for 2017. I used an app to track my mileage, so I'm covered, but just wanted to let people know to be prepared, don't BS your mileage and to hang on to your records.


But...but...but...we won't get audited because the IRS doesn't care about "us peons"! &#128521;

I'm sorry you're being audited, but thank you for sharing so people know that drivers are not immune to being audited! &#128513; Good job on keeping good records! &#128077;


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## SHalester

John oceans said:


> If you don't use uber's standard mile on trip then they will audit you.


With no deadmiles included? Hard pass.


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## Uberdriver914

SHalester said:


> With no deadmiles included? Hard pass.


Aren't the deadmiles included while you keep the app on?


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## SHalester

Uberdriver914 said:


> Aren't the deadmiles included while you keep the app on?


the miles from Uber? On or online? I include all miles: from garage to garage. Online, offline. And if the IRS has a issue, they can just go bark at the moon for all I care. I count all miles. However, chance of audit is a nit. My RS income is a nit compared to 'other' income.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect

As a rule of thumb, Whatever uber/lyft say the on trip miles is, you are ok in doubling those miles without raising a flag.

Mileage is the excuse, other things will be looked at, or perhaps your the one in a hundred who got lucky.

Thank you for scaring the uninformed.


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## Amos69

SHalester said:


> the miles from Uber? On or online? I include all miles: from garage to garage. Online, offline. And if the IRS has a issue, they can just go bark at the moon for all I care. I count all miles. However, chance of audit is a nit. My RS income is a nit compared to 'other' income.


Hey, I think you are thinking about that backwards. With multiple income streams come more reasons for them to audit you. Not less. I use an app and I record on paper as well. Garage to garage. That vehicle is only used for RS, nothing else.


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## SHalester

Amos69 said:


> Hey, I think you are thinking about that backwards.


Wouldn't be first tine I'm backwards. &#129300; but, my point IRS won't audit me because of RS. That income n deductions are a nit compared to wife unit W2 and my broker account 1099's. And a wad of deductions. RS is not material in my case.


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## Juggalo9er

John oceans said:


> If you don't use uber's standard mile on trip then they will audit you.


False.... more false than people that think trump isn't their president


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## Seamus

John oceans said:


> If you don't use uber's standard mile on trip then they will audit you.


Sorry to be blunt but that's ridiculous.

1-It's not on the 1099 so they would have no idea what Uber tracked for you.
2-The IRS requirement is a mileage log, with odometer readings and business destinations, not Uber's tracked mileage.

TripLog, $40 for the year (tax deductible) and you will easily have a mileage log that is in full compliance. If you use Ubers tracked miles you are screwing yourself big time.


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## [email protected]

Juggalo9er said:


> False.... more false than people that think trump isn't their president


You're right, I don't think the IRS compares mileage to Uber records to decide if they will audit you. However, one of the big triggers for an increased likelihood of an audit is showing little or no profit from a business. Apparently you're twice as likely to get audited if you show little to no income than you are if you make over $500k.


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## Juggalo9er

[email protected] said:


> You're right, I don't think the IRS compares mileage to Uber records to decide if they will audit you. However, one of the big triggers for an increased likelihood of an audit is showing little or not profit from a business. Apparently you're twice as likely to get audited if you show little to no income than you are if you make over $500k.


Show me someone in this forum that makes 500k I'll wait


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## [email protected]

Juggalo9er said:


> Show me someone in this forum that makes 500k I'll wait


What I said is that you are TWICE as likely to get audited IF you show little to no income/profit than if you made over $500k. This is from a 1040 perspective - not saying a rideshare driver making over $500k. &#129315;

Said another way...the only group that gets audited at a higher frequency than the "rich" are the people that show little to no taxable income. I believe this is because the IRS only wants to audit people they feel have potentially underpaid taxes.


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## DriverMark

Seamus said:


> Sorry to be blunt but that's ridiculous.
> 
> 1-It's not on the 1099 so they would have no idea what Uber tracked for you.
> 2-The IRS requirement is a mileage log, with odometer readings and business destinations, not Uber's tracked mileage.


True.... but it's easy to sit down if audited, take what Uber says your miles are, a spreadsheet, scroll through your weekly $$ (number of rides) on Uber/Lyft, and plug in the miles on the spreadsheet. Bingo, you now have your mileage log...... if you didn't keep one that is.



[email protected] said:


> What I said is that you are TWICE as likely to get audited IF you show little to no income/profit than if you made over $500k. This is from a 1040 perspective - not saying a rideshare driver making over $500k. &#129315;
> 
> Said another way...the only group that gets audited at a higher frequency than the "rich" are the people that show little to no taxable income. I believe this is because the IRS only wants to audit people they feel have potentially underpaid taxes.


IRS I'm sure uses the all powerful "algorithm" to flag returns. And like you said, us poor folk making pennies per year, you usually have to have something "odd" on your return where the algorithm flags your return. It's not like someone is looking at your return. You did something wrong (intentionally or just by accident) that flagged your return. Then it goes to a person for review.

Keeping taxes as simple as possible is always helpful. I usually have a couple deductions I could make. But once I crunch the figures they only add a few extra $$$ to my return. I toss those. Not worth something extra that may trigger the algorithm if it's only adding a few extra bucks. Unless I'm paying money to the IRS, then I'm adding everything I can scrape up. But my mileage over 19 years of pizza delivery and/or rideshare has more than compensated for any taxes I owed.


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## Seamus

DriverMark said:


> True.... but it's easy to sit down if audited, take what Uber says your miles are, a spreadsheet, scroll through your weekly $$ (number of rides) on Uber/Lyft, and plug in the miles on the spreadsheet. Bingo, you now have your mileage log...... if you didn't keep one that is.



The point is that Uber does not capture all your deductible mileage and you're screwing yourself out of money by relying on Uber.
If you get deactivated you may lose access to Uber's tracked mileage in a given tax year.
Uber's mileage may serve in a jam as a back up but it isn't smart to use as your primary mileage tracker.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect

[email protected] said:


> Apparently you're twice as likely to get audited if you show little to no income than you are if you make over $500k.


On Schedule C you are allowed to show a loss for 5 years. In the 6th a profit should be shown or else.

Ever notice a Resturant closing for a month then reopen under a new name, but the food is the same type. It's so they can continue to show for a loss.


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## [email protected]

DriverMark said:


> IRS I'm sure uses the all powerful "algorithm" to flag returns. And like you said, us poor folk making pennies per year, you usually have to have something "odd" on your return where the algorithm flags your return. It's not like someone is looking at your return. You did something wrong (intentionally or just by accident) that flagged your return. Then it goes to a person for review.
> 
> Keeping taxes as simple as possible is always helpful. I usually have a couple deductions I could make. But once I crunch the figures they only add a few extra $$$ to my return. I toss those. Not worth something extra that may trigger the algorithm if it's only adding a few extra bucks. Unless I'm paying money to the IRS, then I'm adding everything I can scrape up. But my mileage over 19 years of pizza delivery and/or rideshare has more than compensated for any taxes I owed.


Oh, yes, it's definitely the all-mighty algorithm! I had four separate businesses in 2019 (I had two in 2018 and one in 2017). People would often ask me if I'm deducting this, that, or the other thing. Usually these are real stretches to be deductible, so I say no and they just look at me like I'm crazy. The benefit of me deducting that one thing MIGHT net me and extra $50 (or $50 less I owe*), but it's also more likely to trigger an audit. I just don't have time to deal with that...my time is money and I make more money billing my clients than answering to the IRS. &#128513;

*I owe taxes upon filing each year because I pay my estimated taxes based on my previous year's tax return and I've been lucky enough to be able to say my income has gone up a good amount each year. So, if I owe money at the end of the year, that is actually a good thing. &#128521;


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## Harry Seaward

SHalester said:


> In that year how many miles did u have?


Right around 25k


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## SHalester

Harry Seaward said:


> Right around 25k


well, if that is the threshold I"m good for 2019 by a wide margin (started mid august). For 2020, who knows.


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## Harry Seaward

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Did you claim a bunch of miles with little or no income?


Define "bunch of miles" and "little income". I drove for uber, after all.


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## Jon Stoppable

[email protected] said:


> Oh, yes, it's definitely the all-mighty algorithm!


IRS has had an algorithm for many, many years.

https://www.sambrotman.com/blogs/how-tax-returns-are-selected-for-audit/
Self-employment has always been a flag for audit, because so many self-employed persons either don't claim cash income or they claim personal expenses as deductible. Usually both.


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## UbeRoBo

Juggalo9er said:


> Show me someone in this forum that makes 500k I'll wait


I've never broke $500K but I've been in the top few percent tier for many years and I've never been audited. I use turbo tax and could massage my business deductions a little here and there but not any longer since the new Trump tax code did away with those deductions


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## Jon Stoppable

UbeRoBo said:


> I use turbo tax and could massage my business deductions a little here and there but not any longer since the new Trump tax code did away with those deductions :frown:


Uh ... you're going to have to fill me in on those. In fact, Trump added a giant new deduction: QBID.

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/qualified-business-income-deduction
Maybe you are talking about employee business expenses? Can't think of much else business-related that changed. Unless you have a corporation that was limited by the new interest expense rules? Or maybe you have entertainment expenses? Or the DPAD that went away?


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## Harry Seaward

Seamus said:


> Sorry to be blunt but that's ridiculous.


In addition to the reasons you gave, not everyone drives just Uber. I had veyo and Amazon flex income and mileage in there too.


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## Seamus

Jon Stoppable said:


> Uh ... you're going to have to fill me in on those. In fact, Trump added a giant new deduction: QBID.
> 
> https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/qualified-business-income-deduction
> Maybe you are talking about employee business expenses? Can't think of much else business-related that changed. Unless you have a corporation that was limited by the new interest expense rules? Or maybe you have entertainment expenses? Or the DPAD that went away?


It depends where you live. Judging by your answer I guess you weren't impacted by the cap on state taxes. In NY that was HUGE and more than killed the positive changes to the alternative minimum tax. Terrible for someone that has high property taxes and high state income taxes.


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## 25rides7daysaweek

Harry Seaward said:


> Define "bunch of miles" and "little income". I drove for uber, after all.


50k miles 15k income.


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## Trafficat

25rides7daysaweek said:


> 50k miles 15k income.


Yeah, I could see an audit if those were your numbers!


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## 25rides7daysaweek

Seamus said:


> The point is that Uber does not capture all your deductible mileage and you're screwing yourself out of money by relying on Uber.
> If you get deactivated you may lose access to Uber's tracked mileage in a given tax year.
> Uber's mileage may serve in a jam as a back up but it isn't smart to use as your primary mileage tracker.


Ubers mileage as reported on the 
1099 matched the miles on my cars odometer for the past 3 years
I wrote off 65k miles last year


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## UbeRoBo

Jon Stoppable said:


> Uh ... you're going to have to fill me in on those. In fact, Trump added a giant new deduction: QBID.


I'm not familiar with QBID. I'm a transportation worker (airlines). Up until last tax year we could write off all of our business expenses like union dues, per diem shortages and uniform expenses just to name a few. My union dues alone last year were almost $7K. My per diem shortages usually came in around $8K so those were the two main hits. Between van/maid tips, haircuts, uniform expenses/cleaning nickel and dime stuff I could come up with another 4K or so. That on top of my mortgage interest and property taxes I could usually itemize $30K+ very easily and completely legit. With the new Trump rule I just take the standard $20K deduction. My effective tax rate between 2018 and 2019 only changed about one tenth of one percent so was basically a wash.


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## 25rides7daysaweek

Trafficat said:


> Yeah, I could see an audit if those were your numbers!


Well that's what I was saying 
the op said he was getting audited 
and they wanted a log.
He never said what else he was
doing that may have triggered it.
I wouldnt be using uber to get the deductable from miles if I wasnt reporting income from it..


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## TXUbering

Juggalo9er said:


> False.... more false than people that think trump isn't their president


Or those that think Trump was honest with his taxes.....


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## 25rides7daysaweek

TXUbering said:


> Or those that think Trump was honest with his taxes.....


His taxes will never be done 
so nobody will ever know ....


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## BogusServiceAnimal

Harry Seaward said:


> Right around 25k


If your vehicle was only used for gig work, you can orally say this to them without a log. How many years have you been doing gig work before 2017? Did you show a loss for that year? Did you pay anything at all?


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## islanddriver

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Ubers mileage as reported on the
> 1099 matched the miles on my cars odometer for the past 3 years
> I wrote off 65k miles last year


Where on the 1099 is milage. It's only on the summary and those are only with app on .


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## Juggalo9er

TXUbering said:


> Or those that think Trump was honest with his taxes.....


Or those that think anyone that is wealthy is....


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## Jon Stoppable

UbeRoBo said:


> I'm not familiar with QBID. I'm a transportation worker (airlines). Up until last tax year we could write off all of our business expenses like union dues, per diem shortages and uniform expenses just to name a few. My union dues alone last year were almost $7K. My per diem shortages usually came in around $8K so those were the two main hits. Between van/maid tips, haircuts, uniform expenses/cleaning nickel and dime stuff I could come up with another 4K or so. That on top of my mortgage interest and property taxes I could usually itemize $30K+ very easily and completely legit. With the new Trump rule I just take the standard $20K deduction. My effective tax rate between 2018 and 2019 only changed about one tenth of one percent so was basically a wash.


Yeah, those are unreimbursed employee business expenses. And the state income taxes Seamus mentioned, those aren't business deductions per se. For a straight-up self-employed individual, taxes should have gone down--way down, if you actually show a business profit. Unlike RS drivers!


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## WEY00L

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> As a rule of thumb, Whatever uber/lyft say the on trip miles is, you are ok in doubling those miles without raising a flag.
> 
> Mileage is the excuse, other things will be looked at, or perhaps your the one in a hundred who got lucky.
> 
> Thank you for scaring the uninformed.


Good luck with your IRS audit when you have no records to support your deduction.
To claim a mileage deduction the IRS requires a log.
No log = No deduction.


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## BogusServiceAnimal

WEY00L said:


> Good luck with your IRS audit when you have no records to support your deduction.
> To claim a mileage deduction the IRS requires a log.
> No log = No deduction.


"Even though keeping mileage records throughout the entire year is absolutely the best way to document your mileage deduction, the good news is that drivers can deduct mileage based on incomplete records.

According to the IRS, this includes either a "written or oral statement containing specific information about the element," or "supporting evidence that is sufficient to establish the element." In plain English, this means that you need to make sure your estimate matches what evidence you do have."

You can use a number of methods to prove this retroactively. Oil change records. Mileage records for repairs. Mileage records at time of sale. If you were working 60 hours a week, you really didn't have time for personal use; so even if there is an adjustment, it will likely be minimal. You could even spend a few days creating a log retroactively--it's not that hard.


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## 25rides7daysaweek

islanddriver said:


> Where on the 1099 is milage. It's only on the summary and those are only with app on .


I may stand corrected but I'm not sure
Uber said I drove 50k and Lyft said 26k
I put about 70k on the odometer and assumed some of the miles were overlapped.


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## WEY00L

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> On Schedule C you are allowed to show a loss for 5 years. In the 6th a profit should be shown or else.
> 
> Ever notice a Resturant closing for a month then reopen under a new name, but the food is the same type. It's so they can continue to show for a loss.


You should just stop handing out tax advice.
There is no "6 year rule" for schedule c


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## [email protected]

WEY00L said:


> You should just stop handing out tax advice.
> There is no "6 year rule" for schedule c


You do have to show profit for three out of five years, otherwise you have to prove you're doing it for profit (which you generally can for rideshare, but you may have to answer to the IRS which would be a pain).


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## WEY00L

[email protected] said:


> You do have to show profit for three out of five years, otherwise you have to prove you're doing it for profit (which you generally can for rideshare, but you may have to answer to the IRS which would be a pain).


This is correct.
It is called the Hobby Rule..
If you DO NOT make a profit in 3 out of 5 years then the burden of proof is on you should the IRS claim you are just a hobby.
If you make a profit in 3 out of 5 years then the burden of proof is on the IRS to prove you are just a hobby and not a business.

You can lose money for all 5 years and still be a business
You can make money for 10 years and then lose money your 11th year and the IRS can still claim you are a hobby....as long as they can prove it.


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## Harry Seaward

25rides7daysaweek said:


> 50k miles 15k income.





25rides7daysaweek said:


> Well that's what I was saying
> the op said he was getting audited
> and they wanted a log.
> He never said what else he was
> doing that may have triggered it.
> I wouldnt be using uber to get the deductable from miles if I wasnt reporting income from it..


33k miles, $16k income. I was a crappy RS driver my first year. What can i say?

Really, though, $0.49/mile isn't at all out of sorts for RS.


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## Mash Ghasem

Harry Seaward said:


> Just got a notice that I'm being audited for my mileage for 2017. I used an app to track my mileage, so I'm covered, but just wanted to let people know to be prepared, don't BS your mileage and to hang on to your records.


That sucks... hope it goes well.

For a moment when I first saw the thread, I thought you were @Benjamin M with a new profile pic, and was going to accuse you of having a touch of @Mkang14-itis.


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## Seamus

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Ubers mileage as reported on the
> 1099 matched the miles on my cars odometer for the past 3 years
> I wrote off 65k miles last year


Many people do cross platform work.


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## LADryver

Harry Seaward said:


> Just got a notice that I'm being audited for my mileage for 2017. I used an app to track my mileage, so I'm covered, but just wanted to let people know to be prepared, don't BS your mileage and to hang on to your records.


Do not go to the audit without a tax professional.


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## Harry Seaward

LADryver said:


> Do not go to the audit without a tax professional.


There's no going to anything. They are only asking me to send in my mileage logs.


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## LADryver

Harry Seaward said:


> There's no going to anything. They are only asking me to send in my mileage logs.


Great! Do not do so without consulting with a tax professional first.


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## 5☆OG

John oceans said:


> If you don't use uber's standard mile on trip then they will audit you.


thats bs



Juggalo9er said:


> Show me someone in this forum that makes 500k I'll wait


better take a seat its gonna be a while lol


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## Harry Seaward

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Mileage is the excuse, other things will be looked at, or perhaps your the one in a hundred who got lucky.


It's not a general audit. They are asking specifically for my mileage logs, so that rules out "other things" and the "one in a hundred" notion. It seems they don't like that I'm showing $0.49/mile income on RS.


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## Juggalo9er

5☆OG said:


> thats bs
> 
> 
> better take a seat its gonna be a while lol


I've already eaten dinner and taken a shower


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## 5☆OG

Harry Seaward said:


> It's not a general audit. They are asking specifically for my mileage logs, so that rules out "other things" and the "one in a hundred" notion. It seems they don't like that I'm showing $0.49/mile income on RS.


how did you prepare your returns? professional cpa or chuey's online discount tax preperation


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## Benjamin M

Mash Ghasem said:


> That sucks... hope it goes well.
> 
> For a moment when I first saw the thread, I thought you were @Benjamin M with a new profile pic, and was going to accuse you of having a touch of @Mkang14-itis. :biggrin:


Brother??? &#128563;

When I was in my 20s I had a striking similarity to Tom Green. Nickname was "Road Trip" for a minute &#128514;


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## _Tron_

I have a $555 loss for 2019. If I substitute in the U/L combined mileage numbers I have a $4375 profit. Phew. Sticking with my [very accurate] figures.

Really drives home the point about that 58 cent deduction, does it not. For anyone with less than a 58 cent per mile cost to run their rideshare car that deduction is kind of a rideshare miracle.

You know what a miracle is dontcha? It's when god makes the impossible possible.



Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Ever notice a Resturant closing for a month then reopen under a new name, but the food is the same type. It's so they can continue to show for a loss.


Good argument for runing your RS business with a fictitious business name



UbeRoBo said:


> My union dues alone last year were almost $7K.


OK. Perfect example of why I hate the idea of unionized rideshare. Collective bargaining, yes. The existing union paradigm, no.


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## ANThonyBoreDaneCook

Harry Seaward said:


> Just got a notice that I'm being audited


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## 5☆OG

ANThonyBoreDaneCook said:


> View attachment 422510


He took a shot that his penile implant was considered a deduction...failed miserably lol


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## Seamus

Harry Seaward said:


> There's no going to anything. They are only asking me to send in my mileage logs.


Bingo! That's the fallacy that many cling to that it isn't worth it for the IRS to audit them because it costs them so much money. The most common mileage audit now is exactly what you got, a mail audit. Costs them next to nothing to have you send in your mileage log. With TripLog, I would be sending them 348 pages! No worries. It is so easy to do it right it makes you wonder why so many Uber drivers resist.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect

WEY00L said:


> Good luck with your IRS audit when you have no records to support your deduction.
> To claim a mileage deduction the IRS requires a log.
> No log = No deduction.


So you just Assume I do not have a log. 



Harry Seaward said:


> It's not a general audit. They are asking specifically for my mileage logs, so that rules out "other things" and the "one in a hundred" notion. It seems they don't like that I'm showing $0.49/mile income on RS.


You signed the Return right ! and that it is true and correct. Right ?

Then you have wavied your right to be secure in books and papers. It matters not the reason why they give.



WEY00L said:


> You can lose money for all 5 years and still be a business


See what I mean ? Yet you turn profit (6 year) into a rule.

I never said it was a rule.


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## tohunt4me

Harry Seaward said:


> Just got a notice that I'm being audited for my mileage for 2017. I used an app to track my mileage, so I'm covered, but just wanted to let people know to be prepared, don't BS your mileage and to hang on to your records.


WITH Wuhan Flu going Global

Your Uncle Sam is going to need all he can get.

Pay Up.


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## got a p

Seamus said:


> It depends where you live. Judging by your answer I guess you weren't impacted by the cap on state taxes. In NY that was HUGE and more than killed the positive changes to the alternative minimum tax. Terrible for someone that has high property taxes and high state income taxes.


did that mainly (only) affect rich people?


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## Seamus

got a p said:


> did that mainly (only) affect rich people?


In the NYC suburbs where taxes are sky high, it affects everyone that owns a house.


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## theMezz

Uberdriver914 said:


> Aren't the deadmiles included while you keep the app on?


I wish we had a definitive answer on this from a creditable source


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## LADryver

theMezz said:


> I wish we had a definitive answer on this from a creditable source


When you find your local tax expert, do yourself a huge favor. Find any other accurate phrase to use other than the inaccurate "dead miles" and you will be well on your way to getting a reliable answer.


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## Harry Seaward

5☆OG said:


> how did you prepare your returns? professional cpa or chuey's online discount tax preperation


TurboTax



tohunt4me said:


> Pay Up.


Nothing to pay.



Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Then you have wavied your right to be secure in books and papers.


So the alternative is to not file taxes?


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

We all wish it were that way. Of course they, IRS / Courts will not entertain Constitutional arguements.

Gee why is that ?

Cause they can not have the House of Cards collapse on themselves.


----------



## LADryver

[email protected] said:


> You're right, I don't think the IRS compares mileage to Uber records to decide if they will audit you. However, one of the big triggers for an increased likelihood of an audit is showing little or no profit from a business. Apparently you're twice as likely to get audited if you show little to no income than you are if you make over $500k.


Actually there are criteria for determining an audit. They do not need to compare, but when they see a superficial disparity between miles and revenue, they suspect an error was made in the return. An audit is a check against errors. What happens to that is up to you and your preparer.


----------



## WEY00L

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> So you just Assume I do not have a log.
> 
> See what I mean ? Yet you turn profit (6 year) into a rule.
> 
> I never said it was a rule.


You never mentioned a log just that you doubled what U/L sent you....Bogus information

*As a rule of thumb, Whatever uber/lyft say the on trip miles is, you are ok in doubling those miles without raising a flag.*

Sure sounded like you were referring to a rule....either way bogus information:
*On Schedule C you are allowed to show a loss for 5 years. In the 6th a profit should be shown or else. *


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

LADryver said:


> Actually there are criteria for determining an audit. They do not need to compare, but when they see a superficial disparity between miles and revenue, they suspect an error was made in the return. An audit is a check against errors. What happens to that is up to you and your preparer.


^ and then there is that letter the service sends out that says. "We have changed your return." Usually when a math error is found.



WEY00L said:


> You never mentioned a log just that you doubled what U/L sent you....Bogus information
> 
> *As a rule of thumb, Whatever uber/lyft say the on trip miles is, you are ok in doubling those miles without raising a flag.*
> 
> Sure sounded like you were referring to a rule....either way bogus information:
> *On Schedule C you are allowed to show a loss for 5 years. In the 6th a profit should be shown or else. *


So Rule of thumb is miss understood. I never said it was an accepted practice.

Sounded like and what is , is not the same. I can not remove walls in peoples minds.


----------



## [email protected]

LADryver said:


> Actually there are criteria for determining an audit. They do not need to compare, but when they see a superficial disparity between miles and revenue, they suspect an error was made in the return. An audit is a check against errors. What happens to that is up to you and your preparer.


I don't disagree with you - we discussed the "all-mighty algorithm" above. They do a lot of comparisons for things, including comparing you to others in the same line of business. I feel like an audit isn't just to check for errors, but to also check for fraud. It's best to appear to be in line with expectations, unless you have legitimate support for any deviance from it. &#128513;


----------



## Jon Stoppable

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> We all wish it were that way. Of course they, IRS / Courts will not entertain Constitutional arguements.
> 
> Gee why is that ?
> 
> Cause they can not have the House of Cards collapse on themselves.


I'm going to guess you never had a subscription to a Tax Court reporting service. Cause there are a handful of tax protestor cases in every update. They always lose, and get penalized for bringing frivolous arguments before the court. Because the court has heard them a zillion times before.

Question for extra credit: Given that tax protestors consider the Tax Court to be invalid, why do they almost all bring their cases before that court, when they have the option of the District Court instead?


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

Answer; Because the protestors have not learned that Tax Court is ONLY for arguing the amounts owed.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

theMezz said:


> I wish we had a definitive answer on this from a creditable source


This is from Uber re what's in your tax summary. Whether you consider Uber a creditable source is for you to decide.

"The tax summary provides a detailed breakdown of your annual earnings and business-related expenses that may be deductible. Potential deductible business-related expenses may vary depending on how your business is set up.

You'll receive an Uber tax summary on your partner dashboard before January 31, 2020.

This year's tax summary will include a record of all your online miles for the year, which may be deductible. Total online miles include all the miles you drove waiting for a trip, en route to a rider, and on a trip."


----------



## Jon Stoppable

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Answer; Because the protestors have not learned that Tax Court is ONLY for arguing the amounts owed.


Wouldn't you think they'd be more clever than that, after hundreds if not thousands of cases?

You're onto something with the "owed" bit though.


----------



## Crosbyandstarsky

Harry Seaward said:


> Just got a notice that I'm being audited for my mileage for 2017. I used an app to track my mileage, so I'm covered, but just wanted to let people know to be prepared, don't BS your mileage and to hang on to your records.


Ya I'm not worried


----------



## hooj

Harry Seaward said:


> Just got a notice that I'm being audited for my mileage for 2017. I used an app to track my mileage, so I'm covered, but just wanted to let people know to be prepared, don't BS your mileage and to hang on to your records.


Just log your ODO whenever you turn the app on and write it down when you turn it off. Super simple.


----------



## ghrdrd

Harry Seaward said:


> Just got a notice that I'm being audited for my mileage for 2017. I used an app to track my mileage, so I'm covered, but just wanted to let people know to be prepared, don't BS your mileage and to hang on to your records.


Take your pick - IRS audit, alien anal probe, or Uncle Gerry's sleep over game. Same result in the end. A large ahole.


----------



## islanddriver

theMezz said:


> I wish we had a definitive answer on this from a creditable source


Yes all app miles are included in Uber statement.on my own log Uber had 10% less than mile log. That's because I don't have app on when I go for car wash,gas,oil changes.


----------



## Uberdriver2710

ghrdrd said:


> Take your pick - IRS audit, alien anal probe, or Uncle Gerry's sleep over game. Same result in the end. A large ahole.


I'll have a #2....does that come with fries?


----------



## Babak

2017 they started logging online miles. Send then the mileage log from Uber website. It’s logged


----------



## 2smart2drive

John oceans said:


> If you don't use uber's standard mile on trip then they will audit you.


As an independent, you 100% can add your own miles, used - while working - between the rides, in order to turn around heading closer to your home, say; or towards 'busier' hot sports - all maneuvers done off your main driving app(s) are as legit.


----------



## Immoralized

2smart2drive said:


> As an independent, you 100% can add your own miles, used - while working - between the rides, in order to turn around heading closer to your home, say; or towards 'busier' hot sports - all maneuvers done off your main driving app(s) are as legit.


It what you can prove really and what they accept. If the vehicle is hundred percent used for business purposes & nothing else then all mileage & expenses can easily be accounted for & deducted.

Not worth going 12 rounds with the tax man if they say no. Easier to just cough up the $$$ & say sorry boss won't happen again. Last thing anyone wants is to become "The Example" that get nailed to the cross.


----------



## Droosk

Reading through this thread... amazing. This is EXACTLY why you need to have a mileage tracking app. I use Stride, and this is an example of the complete mileage log I get at the end of the year. This report is 100% IRS compliant, as it falls under the "uninterrupted business use" logging requirement.


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

Jon Stoppable said:


> Wouldn't you think they'd be more clever than that, after hundreds if not thousands of cases?
> 
> You're onto something with the "owed" bit though.


Oh I know quite a bit about the Patriot / Protest community. Spent a year and a half to figure out just how the IRS really works, reading certain code sections and a lot of court cases. Mostly all of which your CPA or Turbo tax does not even know, much less tell you because there business relays on keeping "We The Sheepole" ignorant. Refining what to do and mostly what not to do. Understanding there "Words of Art" and how they are used to keep everyone inline to file and pay.

People talk about the great scams. Well the greatest scam is in the Internal Revenue Code Title 26. Especially during WW2 and Disney's Donold Duck 1942 Victory tax cartoon, which ended after WW2 but they did not tell anyone. Even the IRS complained about the 860,000 price tag Walt charge the service back then. But said "I don't see the problem since your are going to make Billions on Donolds back". But I degress, I've had to become a good Sheep. Now pat me on the head and I'll move along.


----------



## Uberdriver2710

Give them back all the worthless fiat dollars they've printed into worthlessness.

Aka "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's."


----------



## Harry Seaward

Droosk said:


> Reading through this thread... amazing. This is EXACTLY why you need to have a mileage tracking app. I use Stride, and this is an example of the complete mileage log I get at the end of the year. This report is 100% IRS compliant, as it falls under the "uninterrupted business use" logging requirement.


I use MileIQ and the reports look the same. It's still no guarantee they will accept it. In the letter I got, the IRS asked for a service record from the first of the year and another from the end of the year to establish the total number of miles driven. I do all of my own mechanical/maintenance work. I didn't claim any auto expenses other than mileage. I bought this car in Jan 2017 and started RS in Feb 2017, so I can show my purchase contract to establish start miles, but no way to 'prove' ending mileage.


----------



## Jon Stoppable

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> the greatest scam is in the Internal Revenue Code Title 26. Now pat me on the head and I'll move along.


I've read a good chunk of 26 USC. Used to have a copy on my desk, together with the volumes of regs, but that was long ago, it's all online now.

So, go ahead and try me. You can do a needle drop in the Code and I have a fair chance at it.


----------



## UberBastid

I always consider a tax return to be an offer.
If they audit, I call that a counter offer.

I fight the IRS every four years. Right on schedule.
I consider it my civic duty.
They get into my pocket - but not easily.
And not nearly as much as they would if I filed the way they want me to.

The last audit took them two years to complete. Started with an auditor who was new and watched her blossom into a full fledged Nazi and get promoted. The next guy took 18 months and many, many worksheets to "find" a little over $800 including penalties and interest. I bet it cost em $10k to do it.
I made payments on that for a year.

Tip: Always report income accurately. Get creative with deductions, that's not illegal. Making a mistake by misinterpreting IRS code is not a crime. Hiding income is.

I think I'm about due for another audit. 
They can kill me, but they can't eat me. And its not because I'm tough ... it IS because I am so bitter.


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

Jon Stoppable said:


> I've read a good chunk of 26 USC. Used to have a copy on my desk, together with the volumes of regs, but that was long ago, it's all online now.
> 
> So, go ahead and try me. You can do a needle drop in the Code and I have a fair chance at it.


I wasn't or am not trying to challenge you personally or any of the tax pro's here. And I'm sure that the tax pro's here know other aspects of the code that I will never need to know. I looked / read the regulations as if being a non tax payer vs as a taxpayer.


----------



## Jon Stoppable

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> I wasn't or am not trying to challenge you personally or any of the tax pro's here. And I'm sure that the tax pro's here know other aspects of the code that I will never need to know. I looked / read the regulations as if being a non tax payer vs as a taxpayer.


If it's the US person thing only applying to residents of DC, that's been tried a long time ago. Doesn't work.


----------



## ntcindetroit

Friendly Jack said:


> I think it would be reasonable to guess that there were millions of drivers who didn't use Uber's "miles on trip" data provided. Are you saying that the IRS is going to audit all of those drivers? If so, how do you know this? Even though I quit rideshare several months ago, I did file a 2019 tax return which did not utilize the Uber-provided "miles on trip", as I did every year since 2014 and I have never been audited.


We'd think there're friendly auditing and not so friendly auditing. It was many years ago, we read there're compliance auditing and criminal investigation. The op did not say if she/he got a compliance auditing or criminal investigation, so the post is of not much value, but it shows tax payers need to comply with the tax law. That's why I asked Lyft and Uber for 1099's even they PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED my driver accouts in less than a honey moon.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Harry Seaward said:


> There's no going to anything. They are only asking me to send in my mileage logs.





Harry Seaward said:


> It's not a general audit. They are asking specifically for my mileage logs, so that rules out "other things" and the "one in a hundred" notion. It seems they don't like that I'm showing $0.49/mile income on RS.





ntcindetroit said:


> The op did not say if she/he got a compliance auditing or criminal investigation, so the post is of not much value, but it shows tax payers need to comply with the tax law.


From what the OP says in his later posts #57 and #60 shown above, it appears that his is not a criminal investigation. The IRS sent him a letter asking him to send his mileage logs to support his claim for the business use of a vehicle.


----------



## UberBastid

Older Chauffeur said:


> it appears that his is not a criminal investigation


Nope.
What they'll do is keep him nervous for about six months, then send a bill for a few bucks. He should just pay it if it's small, which it will be.
Nothing to see here. 
Move along.


----------



## islanddriver

You have to realize by now the IRS . Has computer algorithms on the rideshare business. With the hundreds of thousands of rideshare operators got to file taxes in the last few years ,they know what percent mileage versus income should be plus all the other deductions. if you fall outside those percentages computer will kick out your return. And you will be ask to prove your deductions so it's best to keep your deductions legitimate


----------



## Older Chauffeur

UberBastid said:


> Nope.
> What they'll do is keep him nervous for about six months, then send a bill for a few bucks. He should just pay it if it's small, which it will be.
> Nothing to see here.
> Move along.


I don't think that the IRS has asked for money yet; the letter is simply asking for documentation. It's a good warning for all R/S drivers to keep some kind of mileage log. The odds of an audit may minimal, but it's better to be prepared. My contract driving business wasn't for U/L, but I have over 16 years of mileage logs if I ever need them.


----------



## UberBastid

Older Chauffeur said:


> I don't think that the IRS has asked for money yet; the letter is simply asking for documentation.


Right.
I been here before.
It's called a Desk Audit.
They won't find "no change."
They will send a bill, and give the taxpayer an opportunity to appeal.


----------



## Seamus

UberBastid said:


> Right.
> I been here before.
> It's called a Desk Audit.
> They won't find "no change."
> They will send a bill, and give the taxpayer an opportunity to appeal.


I've been audited 4 times, not fun. I think it really depends what they are looking at. In the case of a mileage log I think they are just looking to see if your log is compliant or not as a basis for your deduction. If you send in a log that is compliant then I don't see an effort to disallow mileage. If the log is non compliant then yes, you're getting a bill.


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

Jon Stoppable said:


> If it's the US person thing only applying to residents of DC, that's been tried a long time ago. Doesn't work.


Yes that was an arguement back in the mid 90's. Code section 3402 a and c defines ( Employees and Wages) is very telling as those refer to Federal Employees.

However it was discovered in the regulations IRC 1.1445-3 or 5 ? I believe. And it even gave instructions on how to , filing a "Statement of Citizenship" with your employer, relieved them of the duty of having there employees sign a W-4 for withhold purposes. Filing an "Exempt" W-4 was/is the wrong way to go.

Of course once this was brought to light. Congress quietly removed the -3 or 5 part of that regulation, I think somewhere around 2002-4. I have copies of that before it was changed somewhere around here.


----------



## Immoralized

They use a data matching AI to compare all of the rideshare drivers taxes that do taxes. The AI will red flag the ones that are outside of it averages and put that to manual review. In which case that person will decide it if worth sending out a letter or a phone call to ask the driver to "Please Explain" if that driver can't explain then it gets interesting from that point forwards.

So to even get to the point of been audited for a lowly rideshare driver a number of checks and balances were failed already that they can't add on on their end that makes sense. If the record the driver have are weak & patchy then they won't accept them as well. Mileage logs are sometimes not enough if they suspect fraud they are going to ask for service logs, parts, oils, receipts etc. They won't stop until they are satisfied that no tax fraud is been committed.

The problem with been red flagged once is that the AI has you on the radar now and more likely to red flag you every year after that for manual review and the whole auditing process every-time taxes are submitted. Even if the driver is doing it a hundred percent by the books & got all the service logs, mileage logs blah blah blah. Once the system has you in eye sight it now counting every cent. It always preferable to be off the radar so you don't get harassed by government agencies.


----------



## Gone_in_60_seconds

Harry Seaward said:


> Just got a notice that I'm being audited for my mileage for 2017. I used an app to track my mileage, so I'm covered, but just wanted to let people know to be prepared, don't BS your mileage and to hang on to your records.


How long do audits last usually?


----------



## Harry Seaward

ntcindetroit said:


> The op did not say if she/he got a compliance auditing or criminal investigation


There was nothing said in the letter about criminal charges. It said one of two things will happen after I send in what they asked for: 1.) they will agree with my documentation and do nothing, or 2.) they will disagree with my documentation and assess a new amount of tax that I will owe.



Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> How long do audits last usually?


I have no idea, but they gave me 30 days to send them what they asked me for. See my post right above this one for what they said they will do with that documentation.


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

3.) You under stated your mileage and could have taken a larger deduction for a bigger refund. Lmao, not on your life. 

But technically if that were true, one would / could have to file an Amended return. But the amount extra would be so small, not worth it.


----------



## AuxCordBoston

Harry Seaward said:


> Just got a notice that I'm being audited for my mileage for 2017. I used an app to track my mileage, so I'm covered, but just wanted to let people know to be prepared, don't BS your mileage and to hang on to your records.


Can you post the letter saying you are being audited?


----------



## Jon Stoppable

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> However it was discovered in the regulations IRC 1.1445-3 or 5 ? I believe. And it even gave instructions on how to , filing a "Statement of Citizenship" with your employer, relieved them of the duty of having there employees sign a W-4 for withhold purposes. Filing an "Exempt" W-4 was/is the wrong way to go.


That would only impact withholding. Even if you file a W4 as exempt, you are still required to report the wages on the 1040 where the final assessment of tax is determined. Anyway who is an employee here? Not this bear.

You are right that most CPAs don't know about these sort of things. Three reasons for that: first, most CPAs aren't tax practitioners, and can barely fill out their own 1040s. Second, the ones that are tax practitioners don't care about tax protestors because tax protestors generally don't file returns, so they have nothing to offer a CPA (or EA) in terms of cash money. Finally, if a tax protestor wants to file an invalid tax return under their bizarre legal theories that have already been rejected or are likely to be rejected in court, no tax preparer will touch that return with a 10m pole because of the potential that the IRS will assess penalties against the preparer.

So I only know about tax protestor arguments because I find them amusing. But I haven't kept up in the last 20 years that I haven't had access to a court reporting service. But if you pay me my going rate, I will research them for youand tell you why they won't stand up in court. I think I get billed at $110 an hour? But they only pay me a fraction of that, because bears can't be CPAs or EAs or attorneys. It's really not fair.

edit: are you talking about this?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/1.1445-3#d
Hard to see how that would apply to a US citizen or resident, neither of which would be eligible for reduced withholding pursuant to a tax treaty. And of course that reg only applies to real estate transactions. I had to apply for one of those certs once, some Canadian snowbird selling a condo in FL. He waited too long though so he got withheld. Got it back when the 1040NR was filed.

And here's the 2003 change, I don't think that is relevant as far as I can tell:

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...-897-1445-and-6109-to-require-use-of-taxpayer


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

Well a protestor wouldn't , couldn't use a preparer.

As far as the CFR goes , Sites update the regulations to stay current. It would be hard to find the older one saying Statement of Citizenship. I suppose I could screen shot what I have on it, but no point in trying to prove a moot point. Since it can no longer be used.

One site https://www.losthorizons.com that I think is good , but I have been out of it for years.

Which reminds me of the Book by Bill Benson and Red Beckman, "The Law That Never Was" How ( more like proof ) the 16th Amendment was fraudulatly ratifed.


----------



## leosc

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Ubers mileage as reported on the
> 1099 matched the miles on my cars odometer for the past 3 years
> I wrote off 65k miles last year


65k miles?
What's your ridesharing income last year?


----------



## Jon Stoppable

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Well a protestor wouldn't , couldn't use a preparer.
> 
> As far as the CFR goes , Sites update the regulations to stay current. It would be hard to find the older one saying Statement of Citizenship. I suppose I could screen shot what I have on it, but no point in trying to prove a moot point. Since it can no longer be used.


No it's not, the original reg is right here:

https://www.federalregister.gov/citation/51-FR-46637
You can follow all of the changes with the links in the footnote of the first link I posted.

But this regulation has to do with exemption certificates for withholding of tax on dispositions of US real estate for foreign residents, primarily those that enjoy a reduced rate or exemption from withholding under US-foreign income tax treaties. Holding anything in that reg to exempt US citizens or residents from all income taxation is going to be a stretch, to say the least.


----------



## UberPhool

Harry Seaward said:


> TurboTax
> 
> Nothing to pay.
> 
> So the alternative is to not file taxes?


What was your Risk Meter toward the end @TurboTax?


----------



## 197438

Seamus said:


> It depends where you live. Judging by your answer I guess you weren't impacted by the cap on state taxes. In NY that was HUGE and more than killed the positive changes to the alternative minimum tax. Terrible for someone that has high property taxes and high state income taxes.


One of the things I appreciate that Trump accomplished (among his few accomplishments) was eliminating the subsidy to homeowners. Now, if only California would eliminate Prop 13 and Mello-Roos.


----------



## islanddriver

EastBayRides said:


> One of the things I appreciate that Trump accomplished (among his few accomplishments) was eliminating the subsidy to homeowners. Now, if only California would eliminate Prop 13 and Mello-Roos.


I do live in New York and I think it's good that they finally capped what you could deduct for property taxes because that's a long-term renter I was never able to deduct part of my rent even though it went to a taxes so I always thought it was an uneven system


----------



## Older Chauffeur

EastBayRides said:


> One of the things I appreciate that Trump accomplished (among his few accomplishments) was eliminating the subsidy to homeowners. Now, if only California would eliminate Prop 13 and Mello-Roos.


Do you understand that Mello-Roos was passed by the legislature as a way to circumvent Prop 13? It isn't based on an assessment on property value like Prop 13 without which assessed values and thus taxes would skyrocket. This would affect renters as well as homeowners, some of whom would not be able to keep their homes.
You sound like you want to raise taxes on the one hand and eliminate them on the other. :confusion:


----------



## 197438

Older Chauffeur said:


> Do you understand that Mello-Roos was passed by the legislature as a way to circumvent Prop 13? It isn't based on an assessment on property value like Prop 13 without which assessed values and thus taxes would skyrocket. This would affect renters as well as homeowners, some of whom would not be able to keep their homes.
> You sound like you want to raise taxes on the one hand and eliminate them on the other. :confusion:


Yes, I understand the link between Mello-Roos and Prop 13, hence my reference to both in one sentence. You can't fix one bad law without fixing the other bad law. Try to follow.


----------



## Harry Seaward

Just a quick update to this. The IRS denied about $500 worth of expenses (dash cam and a couple of subscriptions) in their initial conclusion. I provided them with proof of payment for the things they denied, and they finally came back today and said they were accepting my 2017 filings as originally filed. All miles and all expenses.


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

Did you have a Mileage log ? Or did they accept some thing similar ?

So you got a letter from the service ? 

Is there a balance showing a small amount owed ?


----------



## Gone_in_60_seconds

Harry Seaward said:


> Just a quick update to this. The IRS denied about $500 worth of expenses (dash cam and a couple of subscriptions) in their initial conclusion. I provided them with proof of payment for the things they denied, and they finally came back today and said they were accepting my 2017 filings as originally filed. All miles and all expenses.


Not sure why you got audited? R audits randomly done by IRS usually or was it some red flags?


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

Sounds random, 1 in 100. Which they do.

Dening 500 in expenses is not very much.

Typical Gov, finding an easy return to audit and pad there stat's.


----------



## SleelWheels

The IRS audit will cost them (I mean taxpayers) more than whatever they stand to make from discrepancies.


----------



## Alltel77

I've been mail audited by the IRS a few times, if anything is to be abolished it should be the IRS.


----------



## Jon Stoppable

SleelWheels said:


> The IRS audit will cost them (I mean taxpayers) more than whatever they stand to make from discrepancies.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/irs-audit-rate-lowest-in-at-least-a-decade/
But when there is no risk of audit, taxpayers cheat more. The audit rate today is about 20% of what it was 40 years ago. Partially this is because there is a *lot* more information reporting, so audits are somewhat less necessary. But would you guess that voluntarily compliance is higher? Bear would not so guess.


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

"A kinder more friendlyer Service " ~ Former IRS Commissioner...

Still the Greatest Fraud ever put forth to the American people, see;

The Law That Never Was by Bill Benson and Red Beckman. 

And see exactly how all 48 States voted on the 16th Amendment Dec 23 1913.


----------



## Joey Calzone

Harry Seaward said:


> Just got a notice that I'm being audited for my mileage for 2017. I used an app to track my mileage, so I'm covered, but just wanted to let people know to be prepared, don't BS your mileage and to hang on to your records.


Can you post the IRS letters? I've seen several posts saying I'm being audited but I use an app tracker so I'm all set. 


[email protected] said:


> But...but...but...we won't get audited because the IRS doesn't care about "us peons"! &#128521;
> 
> I'm sorry you're being audited, but thank you for sharing so people know that drivers are not immune to being audited! &#128513; Good job on keeping good records! &#128077;


I think the post is fake. Everyone on this forum gets audited but they are ok because they use a tracker. They never post any proof from the IRS.


----------



## Tony73

If you’re getting money back, you’re doing it wrong.


----------



## Joey Calzone

Harry Seaward said:


> Just a quick update to this. The IRS denied about $500 worth of expenses (dash cam and a couple of subscriptions) in their initial conclusion. I provided them with proof of payment for the things they denied, and they finally came back today and said they were accepting my 2017 filings as originally filed. All miles and all expenses.


You never posted screen shots of any of the IRS letters.


----------



## Fusion_LUser

Joey Calzone said:


> You never posted screen shots of any of the IRS letters.


The OP doesn't have to post anything. If you don't want to believe him oh well, I'm sure the OP will be devastated someone on the internet is not buying his story.


----------



## Joey Calzone

Fusion_LUser said:


> The OP doesn't have to post anything. If you don't want to believe him oh well, I'm sure the OP will be devastated someone on the internet is not buying his story.


I don't believe him.


----------



## 197438

Joey Calzone said:


> I don't believe him.


Without a screenshot, I don't believe you don't believe the OP.


----------



## Joey Calzone

EastBayRides said:


> Without a screenshot, I don't believe you don't believe the OP.


It's just someone promoting a miles tracker. "I'm being audited but I'm in good shape since I used so and so app."


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek

Harry Seaward said:


> Define "bunch of miles" and "little income". I drove for uber, after all.


Last year i took $74k and claimed 
60k miles. If you made $25k and tried 
to write off 50k miles ×.58 = $29k
That would be my definition of 
bunch of miles and little income.


----------



## NGOwner

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Last year i took $74k and claimed
> 60k miles.


Nice. Paid $1.23 per mile on average.

Can't do that in KC. Here the (my) average in 2019 was $0.58 per mile.

Too many dead miles, too low a rate.

[NG]Owner


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek

NGOwner said:


> Nice. Paid $1.23 per mile on average.
> 
> Can't do that in KC. Here the (my) average in 2019 was $0.58 per mile.
> 
> Too many dead miles, too low a rate.
> 
> [NG]Owner


Never thought of it like that, its just $20 an hour for as many hours a day i want.
I live 25 miles from downtown chicago and thats where i go to work...


----------



## Unleaded

Harry Seaward said:


> Just a quick update to this. The IRS denied about $500 worth of expenses (dash cam and a couple of subscriptions) in their initial conclusion. I provided them with proof of payment for the things they denied, and they finally came back today and said they were accepting my 2017 filings as originally filed. All miles and all expenses.


The IRS has got to know that in order to do the job, a rideshare driver needs a cell phone, an unlimited talk, text and data plan, Internet, EZ pass for tolls, emergency roadside service, a car wash and detail resource and other necessities in order to do the job and earn income. Why then would the IRS question these types of Schedule C business deductions which are a major part of the very needs of the job. The IRS IS targeting (with Audits) the 2017 and 2018 tax returns of rideshare drivers. Sad!


----------



## Daisey77

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Last year i took $74k and claimed
> 60k miles. If you made $25k and tried
> to write off 50k miles ×.58 = $29k
> That would be my definition of
> bunch of miles and little income.


That's exactly what every Uber X driver is doing though. No fault of their own. In my market the new drivers are getting paid $0.60 a mile. That's $0.02 a mile profit. Which gets eaten up by the deadheading. The time rate is eating up by deadheading and whatever expenses you have. There's no possible way in X driver can turn profit. Maybe in San Fran but very few markets is it possible. Yeah you may have good night but to have those good night throughout the entire year , no way. You're going to have just as many if not more bad nights. The numbers are stacked against them


----------



## Immoralized

Daisey77 said:


> That's exactly what every Uber X driver is doing though. No fault of their own. In my market the new drivers are getting paid $0.60 a mile. That's $0.02 a mile profit. Which gets eaten up by the deadheading. The time rate is eating up by deadheading and whatever expenses you have. There's no possible way in X driver can turn profit. Maybe in San Fran but very few markets is it possible. Yeah you may have good night but to have those good night throughout the entire year , no way. You're going to have just as many if not more bad nights. The numbers are stacked against them


People usually get audited when they fall outside of the standard. At which point they want to know how you came up with the calculations and prove what is been claimed. If someone has a million miles driven and they got all of the records proving that they drove every single one of those miles then they leave you alone after you have proven that.

As much as people like to think of them as idiots that don't know what they are doing or have no idea they have hundreds of thousands of drivers on file every year submitting taxes to look at and compare. You can bet your bottom dollar most drivers are left alone to carry on driving each and every year without even a glance their way.


----------



## Crosbyandstarsky

Unleaded said:


> The IRS has got to know that in order to do the job, a rideshare driver needs a cell phone, an unlimited talk, text and data plan, Internet, EZ pass for tolls, emergency roadside service, a car wash and detail resource and other necessities in order to do the job and earn income. Why then would the IRS question these types of Schedule C business deductions which are a major part of the very needs of the job. The IRS IS targeting (with Audits) the 2017 and 2018 tax returns of rideshare drivers. Sad!


They're not targeting uber drivers...tax returns are picked by the computer when people get flagged by a algorithm. Don't be paranoid .no drama needed


----------



## islanddriver

Daisey77 said:


> That's exactly what every Uber X driver is doing though. No fault of their own. In my market the new drivers are getting paid $0.60 a mile. That's $0.02 a mile profit. Which gets eaten up by the deadheading. The time rate is eating up by deadheading and whatever expenses you have. There's no possible way in X driver can turn profit. Maybe in San Fran but very few markets is it possible. Yeah you may have good night but to have those good night throughout the entire year , no way. You're going to have just as many if not more bad nights. The numbers are stacked against them


if you are not making any profit its time to get a job as you do not know how to do rideshare. 
here's what the IRS thinks of your no profit. reason for an audit.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikekappel/2016/12/07/when-does-a-hobby-become-a-business/#790645ba449c


----------



## FLKeys

islanddriver said:


> if you are not making any profit its time to get a job as you do not know how to do rideshare.
> here's what the IRS thinks of your no profit. reason for an audit.
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikekappel/2016/12/07/when-does-a-hobby-become-a-business/#790645ba449c


The old Hobby rule. With proper record keeping you can not make a taxable profit every year and still not be considered a hobby. You could easily make the first 6 points valid for having rideshare as a business and not a hobby.

The 3rd and 4th points are pretty significant. Keep proper records and you can easily cover the first 2 points. The 5th point can be easily used if you can show you drive in different markets and different times looking to be more profitable. Just being aware of the first 5 points shows you have the knowledge for the 6th point.

*From the IRS:*
Question:
How do you distinguish between a business and a hobby?
Answer:
In making the distinction between a hobby or business activity, take into account all facts and circumstances with respect to the activity. A hobby activity is done mainly for recreation or pleasure. No one factor alone is decisive. You must generally consider these factors in determining whether an activity is a business engaged in making a profit:

Whether you carry on the activity in a businesslike manner and maintain complete and accurate books and records.
Whether the time and effort you put into the activity indicate you intend to make it profitable.
Whether you depend on income from the activity for your livelihood.
Whether your losses are due to circumstances beyond your control (or are normal in the startup phase of your type of business).
Whether you change your methods of operation in an attempt to improve profitability.
Whether you or your advisors have the knowledge needed to carry on the activity as a successful business.
Whether you were successful in making a profit in similar activities in the past.
Whether the activity makes a profit in some years and how much profit it makes.
Whether you can expect to make a future profit from the appreciation of the assets used in the activity.


----------



## Daisey77

islanddriver said:


> if you are not making any profit its time to get a job as you do not know how to do rideshare.
> here's what the IRS thinks of your no profit. reason for an audit.
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikekappel/2016/12/07/when-does-a-hobby-become-a-business/#790645ba449c


You. . . you . . . your

if DRIVERS are not making any profit its time to get a job as THEY do not know how to do rideshare.
here's what the IRS thinks of THEIR no profit. reason for an audit.

FIFY&#128518;


----------



## Unleaded

Crosbyandstarsky said:


> They're not targeting uber drivers...tax returns are picked by the computer when people get flagged by a algorithm. Don't be paranoid .no drama needed


Is it just coincidental that Uber and Lyft drivers are reporting being audited for the 2017 and 2018 tax years? Coincidental isn't fun for any drivers chosen. Check around the forums for the reality of this "coincidence". It's Uber's turn. That means it may be your turn. Hopefully not.


----------



## Frontier Guy

John oceans said:


> If you don't use uber's standard mile on trip then they will audit you.


I keep a little notebook in the car, any time I drive RS I record beginning and ending miles, I've noticed at the end of the year my notebook miles and the combined reported Uber/Lyft miles are with 500 of each other, I report whichever is higher. All other odometer miles, I report as commute to/from regular job and general use.


----------



## IRME4EVER

Friendly Jack said:


> I think it would be reasonable to guess that there were millions of drivers who didn't use Uber's "miles on trip" data provided. Are you saying that the IRS is going to audit all of those drivers? If so, how do you know this? Even though I quit rideshare several months ago, I did file a 2019 tax return which did not utilize the Uber-provided "miles on trip", as I did every year since 2014 and I have never been audited.


 I am safe, I am honest and print out all the needed information for my tax preparer. For Uber, all you have to do is go to tax information and print out your 1099K, 1099M, and your yearly summary. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!!


----------



## CarinaMileageWise

The most important thing to have in case of an IRS audit is substantiating documentation! 

Have a mileage log when claiming business miles for your vehicle!
Most of our clients who are being audited right now did not have a mileage log to substantiate their claim. Now, they have 30 days to come up with a mileage log that will support their claim.

If you are tracking your miles by hand, using an App or a Software, it does not matter. The importance is that it is accurate and it will account for all of your driven miles appropriately. The only difference between these options is how much work you have to put in. 
Make sure you choose the option that gives you an IRS proof mileage log at the end of the month. Fewer headaches in the end.


----------



## Uberdriver2710




----------



## CarinaMileageWise

Uberdriver2710 said:


>


There are options, like keeping a handwritten log as well, or an Excel spreadsheet.

But look at it this way. If you do get an IRS audit, and they find something wrong, in the long run, it is going to cost you more.

I would advise looking around, there are plenty of options where you can try the App or Software out for free, and make an educated decision on, is this the right product for you.

It can be considered an investment, since again if something goes wrong, it will cost you more.

That being said, once more, if you can keep an accurate handwritten log, not forgetting to log your odometer readings, business visits, personal visits... etc. that is the best free option. 
It just has to be kept in accordance with what the IRS needs, it needs to be IRS proof, and you are good. 
The App or Software just usually does the work for you.

Whatever option you choose to go with, make sure that it's a good fit for the long haul, since if you decide to do handwritten logs or use an App or Software, and after two months, you just don't want to do it, or you are always delaying the process, things will get messed up quick, and you will be left dealing with this at the last moment when it is already time to hand in your paperwork.


----------



## Uberdriver2710

CarinaMileageWise said:


> There are options, like keeping a handwritten log as well, or an Excel spreadsheet.
> 
> But look at it this way. If you do get an IRS audit, and they find something wrong, in the long run, it is going to cost you more.
> 
> I would advise looking around, there are plenty of options where you can try the App or Software out for free, and make an educated decision on, is this the right product for you.
> 
> It can be considered an investment, since again if something goes wrong, it will cost you more.
> 
> That being said, once more, if you can keep an accurate handwritten log, not forgetting to log your odometer readings, business visits, personal visits... etc. that is the best free option.
> It just has to be kept in accordance with what the IRS needs, it needs to be IRS proof, and you are good.
> The App or Software just usually does the work for you.
> 
> Whatever option you choose to go with, make sure that it's a good fit for the long haul, since if you decide to do handwritten logs or use an App or Software, and after two months, you just don't want to do it, or you are always delaying the process, things will get messed up quick, and you will be left dealing with this at the last moment when it is already time to hand in your paperwork.


----------



## CarinaMileageWise

Uberdriver2710 said:


>


Again, you do have the option of keeping handwritten logs and excel spreadsheet logs! 
You do not have to pay a thing for that. 
I was just trying to give you the pros and cons of both!

I do hope you find the best solution suited for your needs!

If I can ever help in regards to this topic, please let me know!


----------



## Uberdriver2710

CarinaMileageWise said:


> Again, you do have the option of keeping handwritten logs and excel spreadsheet logs!
> You do not have to pay a thing for that.
> I was just trying to give you the pros and cons of both!
> 
> I do hope you find the best solution suited for your needs!
> 
> If I can ever help in regards to this topic, please let me know!


----------



## dauction

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> As a rule of thumb, Whatever uber/lyft say the on trip miles is, you are ok in doubling those miles without raising a flag.
> 
> Mileage is the excuse, other things will be looked at, or perhaps your the one in a hundred who got lucky.
> 
> Thank you for scaring the uninformed.


Umm BIG FAT NO... Please people don't go Doubling whatever Uber Miles show. Just asking for trouble...sooner or later.

Look at my Miles.. Uber










Lyft









No way in hell would I submit 88,000 Miles! ...You think I'd be getting Audited..hell yes.

I submitted 42K miles ...slightly less than what Uber/Lyft combine gave me. that takes care of any times that I am traveling and have uber and Lyft running at the same time.. not very often..because most of the time I am either sitting waiting for a ride .. there is no mileage or I am moving but taking stacked rides so Lyft is ON..Uber off or vice versa

42K miles ..36K revenue and not Fing with the IRS

*NOTE...Uber calculates ALL MILES on and OffLine








*


----------



## CarinaMileageWise

dauction said:


> Umm BIG FAT NO... Please people don't go Doubling whatever Uber Miles show. Just asking for trouble...sooner or later.
> 
> Look at my Miles.. Uber
> 
> View attachment 524262
> 
> 
> Lyft
> View attachment 524264
> 
> 
> No way in hell would I submit 88,000 Miles! ...You think I'd be getting Audited..hell yes.
> 
> I submitted 42K miles ...slightly less than what Uber/Lyft combine gave me. that takes care of any times that I am traveling and have uber and Lyft running at the same time.. not very often..because most of the time I am either sitting waiting for a ride .. there is no mileage or I am moving but taking stacked rides so Lyft is ON..Uber off or vice versa
> 
> 42K miles ..36K revenue and not Fing with the IRS
> 
> *NOTE...Uber calculates ALL MILES on and OffLine
> 
> View attachment 524266
> *


Always have supporting evidence for your claim!

You need to have an accurate mileage log, not just the total miles driven for business purposes.

You have to differentiate between business and personal trips, record the miles between trips, the date of the trips...
Make sure your supporting evidence is in accordance with what the IRS requires!


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

dauction said:


> No way in hell would I submit 88,000 Miles! ...You think I'd be getting Audited..hell yes.


Actually I miss stated that. Can't really use Online miles.

When I start my day, I zero out the odmeter at home, first stop is usually the gas station. 2.5 miles away. Others the first request is at / form home.
Now if or when I get a trip to LAX from here , that's 75 miles one way. I will include the other 75 going home. Accept there maybe other trips while in LA or OC, hopefully going towards home, which those miles will be included until I get home. However, sometimes I will stop and see a friend in OC so the mileage from the last drop off point to home is not included. Yesterday was a good example of that. Set filter to Newport Beach. First ping 7 miles from the gas station. Went to near Knott's Berry Farm. 45 miles. Not really enough time to do another b4 seeing my friend, so called it a day and just logged 52 miles for the day.



dauction said:


> Uber calculates ALL MILES on and OffLine


So in other words, when I leave my friends place I can open the app with no inventions of going online to accept a trip and log another 40 miles to home.

The IRS does not care, all they want to see is your Mileage log.


----------



## Bork_Bork_Bork

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> As a rule of thumb, Whatever uber/lyft say the on trip miles is, you are ok in doubling those miles without raising a flag.
> 
> Mileage is the excuse, other things will be looked at, or perhaps your the one in a hundred who got lucky.
> 
> Thank you for scaring the uninformed.


There's absolutely 0 to be afraid of, unless you're breaking the law.


----------



## Frontier Guy

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> As a rule of thumb, Whatever uber/lyft say the on trip miles is, you are ok in doubling those miles without raising a flag.
> 
> Mileage is the excuse, other things will be looked at, or perhaps your the one in a hundred who got lucky.
> 
> Thank you for scaring the uninformed.


What? Double, absolutely not, maybe 15% as a fudge factor.


----------



## UberBastid

Bork_Bork_Bork said:


> There's absolutely 0 to be afraid of, unless you're breaking the law.


Oh come on.
You gotta know better than that.
Do you really think that there are only 'guilty' people in prison?
Have you never, ever been accused falsely?


----------



## Bork_Bork_Bork

UberBastid said:


> Oh come on.
> You gotta know better than that.
> Do you really think that there are only 'guilty' people in prison?
> Have you never, ever been accused falsely?


Oh, I absolutely agree with you. With taxes though, there's no "he said, she said". The numbers are what they are. The old "I didn't know" is also out the door.


----------



## UberBastid

Bork_Bork_Bork said:


> Oh, I absolutely agree with you. With taxes though, there's no "he said, she said". The numbers are what they are. The old "I didn't know" is also out the door.


Kind of like the way the IRS investigated and harassed the right leaning non-profits three years ago when the dems were trying to overthrow Trump?









Justice Department settles with conservative groups over IRS scrutiny


The U.S. Justice Department has reached a settlement with dozens of conservative groups that claimed the Internal Revenue Service unfairly scrutinized them based on their political leanings when they sought a tax-exempt status, court documents showed.




www.reuters.com





_The U.S. Justice Department has reached a settlement with dozens of conservative groups that claimed the Internal Revenue Service unfairly scrutinized them based on their political leanings when they sought a tax-exempt status, court documents showed.

In a pair of lawsuits filed in federal court in 2013, the conservative groups accused the IRS of targeting organizations with such words as "Tea Party" or "patriots" when they applied to the agency for tax-exempt status starting in 2010._

The IRS is a tool of the far left. Always has been. Trumps been fighting them for forty years.
Numbers don't lie, but if you put the same number in a different column it's tax evasion, IF they want to go that far.
It depends on WHO you are as to HOW you are treated.


----------



## Jon Stoppable

Uberdriver2710 said:


>


If you pull out of your driveway in an EV and don't immediately pay a toll, that is also stealing.

Bear does not care, because bears don't have to pay taxes. Except for sales taxes and business taxes that are recovered in the prices for items that bear buys at the food place, but bears don't understand that, so ...


----------



## Bork_Bork_Bork

UberBastid said:


> Kind of like the way the IRS investigated and harassed the right leaning non-profits three years ago when the dems were trying to overthrow Trump?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justice Department settles with conservative groups over IRS scrutiny
> 
> 
> The U.S. Justice Department has reached a settlement with dozens of conservative groups that claimed the Internal Revenue Service unfairly scrutinized them based on their political leanings when they sought a tax-exempt status, court documents showed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The U.S. Justice Department has reached a settlement with dozens of conservative groups that claimed the Internal Revenue Service unfairly scrutinized them based on their political leanings when they sought a tax-exempt status, court documents showed.
> 
> In a pair of lawsuits filed in federal court in 2013, the conservative groups accused the IRS of targeting organizations with such words as "Tea Party" or "patriots" when they applied to the agency for tax-exempt status starting in 2010._
> 
> The IRS is a tool of the far left. Always has been. Trumps been fighting them for forty years.
> Numbers don't lie, but if you put the same number in a different column it's tax evasion, IF they want to go that far.
> It depends on WHO you are as to HOW you are treated.


Yea, **** tRump. May he get all he deserves in the future.


----------



## Uberdriver2710

Jon Stoppable said:


> If you pull out of your driveway in an EV and don't immediately pay a toll, that is also stealing.
> 
> Bear does not care, because bears don't have to pay taxes. Except for sales taxes and business taxes that are recovered in the prices for items that bear buys at the food place, but bears don't understand that, so ...


I'm a crow, so I can relate. Pilot's licence? lol!


----------



## Frontier Guy

Bork_Bork_Bork said:


> Oh, I absolutely agree with you. With taxes though, there's no "he said, she said". The numbers are what they are. The old "I didn't know" is also out the door.


If you know what you're doing, and know you are right, always fight the IRS. Was audited in 2013 for 2011, IRS tried to deny all my business related deductions, tried to tell me I owed them $6,500 with interest and penalties. Auditor even went so far as to threaten my employer with an audit when my boss didn't return her phone call (boss was in the hospital giving birth). I refused to accept their decision, filed an appeal, when it was initially denied, I filed the papers to go to tax court, let a judge settle it. Two months later, IRS sent me papers to schedule an in-person hearing with an appeals officer. I used their own rules against them, in the end I ended up owing $1,160, you would be amazed at how ignorant they are of their own rules. It took 2.5 yrs to resolve my audit, everything happens by mail.

As a truck driver, at the time, everything I did was deductible, meals, showers, other on the road expenses. Original auditor tried to say that my showers on the road weren't deductible, her logic, well you take a shower at home. So, I shouldn't take a shower on the road? What if I'm gone for 2 or 3 weeks, should I not bathe, no, you can bathe but it's not deductible. Ok, show me in black and white. She couldn't. She tried to say my meals on the road weren't deductible. Say what. Then she accused me of lying about my income, because my employer said I received a "per diem". I laughed and said if that's the case, then my employer owes me a boatload of money for income not paid. When they went back to my employer about it, she said no, I receive "premium" pay because I am the senior driver and I carry license endorsements others don't. When I sat down with the appeals officer, I brought everything with me, over 900 pages of documentation, 12 months worth of log books, and copies of all pertinent IRS rules and regulations, with highlighted examples of IRS ruling in taxpayer favor. It took less than 90 minutes to make my case. Three weeks later, received a letter in the mail that the amount owed had been reduced from $6500 to $1160 with penalties and interest.


----------



## Trafficat

Jon Stoppable said:


> If you pull out of your driveway in an EV and don't immediately pay a toll, that is also stealing.
> 
> Bear does not care, because bears don't have to pay taxes. Except for sales taxes and business taxes that are recovered in the prices for items that bear buys at the food place, but bears don't understand that, so ...


The only reason the tax courts haven't found the "I'm a bear so I don't have to pay taxes" not to be a frivolous argument is because most bears never stole a rideshare car and made a profit. They will tax everything that moves and does not move.


----------



## Jon Stoppable

Trafficat said:


> The only reason the tax courts haven't found the "I'm a bear so I don't have to pay taxes" not to be a frivolous argument is because most bears never stole a rideshare car and made a profit. They will tax everything that moves and does not move.


No, since bears aren't protected by the Fourteenth Amendment (no equal protection if we can be legally hunted), then we can't be subject to tax as we are not individuals subject to tax pursuant to 26 USC 1. Bear will take this all the way to the Supreme Court!


----------



## Launchpad McQuack

Jon Stoppable said:


> No, since bears aren't protected by the Fourteenth Amendment (no equal protection if we can be legally hunted)....


.....and you're not even protected by the Second Amendment, which guarantees the right to bear arms but is noticeably silent on the right to arm bears.


----------



## Seamus

Frontier Guy said:


> I brought everything with me, over 900 pages of documentation, 12 months worth of log books, and copies of all pertinent IRS rules and regulations, with highlighted examples of IRS ruling in taxpayer favor.


The key is you had _documentation._ Those that don't are doomed.


----------



## Lessthanminimum

Seamus said:


> Sorry to be blunt but that's ridiculous.
> 
> 1-It's not on the 1099 so they would have no idea what Uber tracked for you.
> 2-The IRS requirement is a mileage log, with odometer readings and business destinations, not Uber's tracked mileage.
> 
> TripLog, $40 for the year (tax deductible) and you will easily have a mileage log that is in full compliance. If you use Ubers tracked miles you are screwing yourself big time.


I cannot tell you how good this advice is. LISTEN to Seamus. I know he is exactly 100% right. Rely on your "online miles" and if you get audited you are screwed.


----------



## UberBastid

Lessthanminimum said:


> I cannot tell you how good this advice is. LISTEN to Seamus. I know he is exactly 100% right. Rely on your "online miles" and if you get audited you are screwed.


IF you get that ONE IN A MILLION audits that are done on Uber drivers ... 
You MAY be screwed to the tune of a couple hundred bux.

Roll the dice.
Be bold.

LoL


----------



## Guido-TheKillerPimp

SHalester said:


> My RS income is a nit compared to 'other' income


&#128514; You wish!!


----------



## SHalester

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> You wish!!


You don't read very well, aye?

AT least, unlike yourself, I don't depend on RS income for anything. Take that puppy. &#128021;


----------



## UberBastid

SHalester said:


> You don't read very well, aye?
> 
> AT least, unlike yourself, I don't depend on RS income for anything. Take that puppy. &#128021;


Guido uses Uber as a marketing avenue for his real business ... hint: look at his last name ...


----------



## Guido-TheKillerPimp

SHalester said:


> You don't read very well, aye?
> 
> AT least, unlike yourself, I don't depend on RS income for anything. Take that puppy. &#128021;


&#128514; You wish!!
As always, so full of &#128169;!


----------



## SHalester

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> You wish!!


you are very entertaining. At least, as a puppy, you have that going on. Isn't it passed your bed time? &#129335;‍♂


----------



## UberBastid

SHalester said:


> you are very entertaining. At least, as a puppy, you have that going on. Isn't it passed your bed time? &#129335;‍♂


Bad dog.
Bad dog!!

You don't DO than on the forum floor ... ok?
Go OUTSIDE.
NO

Awwww. We still love you. I didn't mean it much. Come here. Yea, yer a good boy.


----------



## tohunt4me

Frontier Guy said:


> If you know what you're doing, and know you are right, always fight the IRS. Was audited in 2013 for 2011, IRS tried to deny all my business related deductions, tried to tell me I owed them $6,500 with interest and penalties. Auditor even went so far as to threaten my employer with an audit when my boss didn't return her phone call (boss was in the hospital giving birth). I refused to accept their decision, filed an appeal, when it was initially denied, I filed the papers to go to tax court, let a judge settle it. Two months later, IRS sent me papers to schedule an in-person hearing with an appeals officer. I used their own rules against them, in the end I ended up owing $1,160, you would be amazed at how ignorant they are of their own rules. It took 2.5 yrs to resolve my audit, everything happens by mail.
> 
> As a truck driver, at the time, everything I did was deductible, meals, showers, other on the road expenses. Original auditor tried to say that my showers on the road weren't deductible, her logic, well you take a shower at home. So, I shouldn't take a shower on the road? What if I'm gone for 2 or 3 weeks, should I not bathe, no, you can bathe but it's not deductible. Ok, show me in black and white. She couldn't. She tried to say my meals on the road weren't deductible. Say what. Then she accused me of lying about my income, because my employer said I received a "per diem". I laughed and said if that's the case, then my employer owes me a boatload of money for income not paid. When they went back to my employer about it, she said no, I receive "premium" pay because I am the senior driver and I carry license endorsements others don't. When I sat down with the appeals officer, I brought everything with me, over 900 pages of documentation, 12 months worth of log books, and copies of all pertinent IRS rules and regulations, with highlighted examples of IRS ruling in taxpayer favor. It took less than 90 minutes to make my case. Three weeks later, received a letter in the mail that the amount owed had been reduced from $6500 to $1160 with penalties and interest.


Per diem is non taxable !



UberBastid said:


> Kind of like the way the IRS investigated and harassed the right leaning non-profits three years ago when the dems were tryiniis to overthrow Trump?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Justice Department settles with conservative groups over IRS scrutiny
> 
> 
> The U.S. Justice Department has reached a settlement with dozens of conservative groups that claimed the Internal Revenue Service unfairly scrutinized them based on their political leanings when they sought a tax-exempt status, court documents showed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reuters.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The U.S. Justice Department has reached a settlement with dozens of conservative groups that claimed the Internal Revenue Service unfairly scrutinized them based on their political leanings when they sought a tax-exempt status, court documents showed.
> 
> In a pair of lawsuits filed in federal court in 2013, the conservative groups accused the IRS of targeting organizations with such words as "Tea Party" or "patriots" when they applied to the agency for tax-exempt status starting in 2010._
> 
> The IRS is a tool of the far left. Always has been. Trumps been fighting them for forty years.
> Numbers don't lie, but if you put the same number in a different column it's tax evasion, IF they want to go that far.
> It depends on WHO you are as to HOW you are treated.


Remember Lois Lerner ?



FLKeys said:


> The old Hobby rule. With proper record keeping you can not make a taxable profit every year and still not be considered a hobby. You could easily make the first 6 points valid for having rideshare as a business and not a hobby.
> 
> The 3rd and 4th points are pretty significant. Keep proper records and you can easily cover the first 2 points. The 5th point can be easily used if you can show you drive in different markets and different times looking to be more profitable. Just being aware of the first 5 points shows you have the knowledge for the 6th point.
> 
> *From the IRS:*
> Question:
> How do you distinguish between a business and a hobby?
> Answer:
> In making the distinction between a hobby or business activity, take into account all facts and circumstances with respect to the activity. A hobby activity is done mainly for recreation or pleasure. No one factor alone is decisive. You must generally consider these factors in determining whether an activity is a business engaged in making a profit:
> 
> Whether you carry on the activity in a businesslike manner and maintain complete and accurate books and records.
> Whether the time and effort you put into the activity indicate you intend to make it profitable.
> Whether you depend on income from the activity for your livelihood.
> Whether your losses are due to circumstances beyond your control (or are normal in the startup phase of your type of business).
> Whether you change your methods of operation in an attempt to improve profitability.
> Whether you or your advisors have the knowledge needed to carry on the activity as a successful business.
> Whether you were successful in making a profit in similar activities in the past.
> Whether the activity makes a profit in some years and how much profit it makes.
> Whether you can expect to make a future profit from the appreciation of the assets used in the activity.


You can Lose money for 3 years in a Business.

Then you Have to change the name.

To Lose money for 3 more years.

Otherwise " Hobby" regs. Kick in.

I did strictly Uber, full time for 3 years.
Then delivered pizza.
Then Covid broke out.
So i never returned to Uber even part time.

Original plan was to take 1-2 years off Uber.


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## Immoralized

tohunt4me said:


> Per diem is non taxable !
> 
> 
> Remember Lois Lerner ?
> 
> 
> You can Lose money for 3 years in a Business.
> 
> Then you Have to change the name.
> 
> To Lose money for 3 more years.
> 
> Otherwise " Hobby" regs. Kick in.
> 
> I did strictly Uber, full time for 3 years.
> Then delivered pizza.
> Then Covid broke out.
> So i never returned to Uber even part time.
> 
> Original plan was to take 1-2 years off Uber.


Did you say you did like 10k worth of trips per year with Uber?
You do ur books real good to show it as loss from the tax man if that the case :thumbup:


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp

SHalester said:


> you are very entertaining. At least, as a puppy, you have that going on. Isn't it passed your bed time? &#129335;‍♂


&#128514; You wish!!


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## Frontier Guy

tohunt4me said:


> Per diem is non taxable !
> 
> 
> Again, that's the IRS and their inability to read their own rules


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## Lessthanminimum

UberBastid said:


> IF you get that ONE IN A MILLION audits that are done on Uber drivers ...
> You MAY be screwed to the tune of a couple hundred bux.
> 
> Roll the dice.
> Be bold.
> 
> LoL


A couple hundred...LOL. how many Uber drivers file a mileage expense with the IRS for a couple hundred dollars dunce? Plus, you can throw in interest and penalties.

By the way, I'm holding a straight flush and you're holding a pair of twos but keep talking your nonsense.


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## Frontier Guy

Lessthanminimum said:


> A couple hundred...LOL. how many Uber drivers file a mileage expense with the IRS for a couple hundred dollars dunce? Plus, you can throw in interest and penalties.
> 
> By the way, I'm holding a straight flush and you're holding a pair of twos but keep talking your nonsense.


A couple hundred bucks, the IRS or the state sends you a nice letter saying they reviewed your taxes and found an error in their favor (BTDT still have a copy of the check they cashed), the IRS audits you for a couple thousand bucks and although they do send you a nice letter, it's intentions are not nice


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## UberBastid

Lessthanminimum said:


> A couple hundred...LOL. how many Uber drivers file a mileage expense with the IRS for a couple hundred dollars dunce? Plus, you can throw in interest and penalties.
> 
> By the way, I'm holding a straight flush and you're holding a pair of twos but keep talking your nonsense.


OK buddy.
You play your hand, I'll play mine.

But, I like IRS at the table. I know their game exactly.
I been playing with them for over a half century now.
I know when they bluff, and when they don't.

They are able to get into my pocket - but I make em take it; I don't give it away with a whimper.


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## Lessthanminimum

UberBastid said:


> OK buddy.
> You play your hand, I'll play mine.
> 
> But, I like IRS at the table. I know their game exactly.
> I been playing with them for over a half century now.
> I know when they bluff, and when they don't.
> 
> They are able to get into my pocket - but I make em take it; I don't give it away with a whimper


Anyone want audited follow this guy's advice. Guess who is 100% responsible for proving EVERY expense you claim on your Schedule C? Can't back up your miles from two or three years ago with real trip data? Too bad. Pay up.


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## keralis

I think the important question is, can he deduct the few hours he had to deal with this audit as a business expense on next years tax return?


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## UberBastid

Lessthanminimum said:


> Anyone want audited follow this guy's advice. Guess who is 100% responsible for proving EVERY expense you claim on your Schedule C? Can't back up your miles from two or three years ago with real trip data? Too bad. Pay up.


Right.
I can't prove my mileage ... so ... how much do I owe you?
Can you see that in order to make the kind of income I declared that I"d have to drive that kind of miles? Does it make sense to you, Mr. Auditor?
You think I own you ... $127.56 .... fine. Can I make payments on that?

I don't spend time meticulously keeping documents and records to save pennies. My time is worth MUCH more that those pennies. I report reasonable and believable numbers that comply with and fit in with "industry standards". And then I don't need to worry about deducting time for 'audit preparation' or any crap. Instead, I go bass fishing.
I have been audited several times and I'm here to tell you that there is nothing to fear. It's like a doctors appointment (without the rubber glove and KY jelly). Most of the 'audits' that I've had was a question about ONE issue, or one line item with a low value. 
My first question during an audit is "If I don't argue with you at all, if I don't provide any backup documentation ... HOW MUCH?" If its a small number (like under four figures) I usually just pay it. Because, believe this, there is MUCH more there for them to find if they look carefully.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect

There are three stages to triggering an audit. Yellow, Orange, and Red. Even Turbo Tax uses that formula to inform ones that there Return "May" trigger an audit.

In this Climate, and they're being 8 months over due on my 2019 refund. don't expect many audit notices to go out anytime soon. As they act like they are more scared than an average Karen. As witnessed by being at there local office in January.


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