# Accident. Adventure over? Insurance Company won on bogus 80% at fault claim



## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

A pickup truck runs into my passenger side door today. It was not my fault. It was a low speed, non-injury hit and made a big dent. Exchange info etc. Take pictures. Call Lyft. Automatic "temporary" deactivation of account. Collect info, email it in. I was matched with a pax so I was on my way pick up. Full Lyft commercial insurance coverage should apply as primary.

_Lyft email pressures me to contact my personal insurance carrie_r. Yeah, right.

My collision deductible with Lyft is $2,500. Went to dealer who quoted me way over that for the repair. But hey, he is a dealer.

The kicker is that last week I got a "safety" flag on my Lyft feedback. No idea why, likely the irritating pax I gave 3* to, but with the accident I'm sure the deactivation will be permanent.

Total income before gas on both Uber and Lyft ? You guessed it $2,500 - about 5,000 miles.

*But it has been an adventure. *

[I'm still alive with Uber, but doubt I want to drive for them without the Lyft backup - I'll post updates as they come in)


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

I TOLD YOU SO !!!

For all the chicken-littles out there. Just "like" this post.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> I TOLD YOU SO !!!
> 
> For all the chicken-littles out there. Just "like" this post.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> A pickup truck runs into my passenger side door today. It was not my fault. It was a low speed, non-injury hit and made a big dent. Exchange info etc. Take pictures. Call Lyft. Automatic "temporary" deactivation of account. Collect info, email it in. I was matched with a pax so I was on my way pick up. Full Lyft commercial insurance coverage should apply as primary.
> 
> _Lyft email pressures me to contact my personal insurance carrie_r. Yeah, right.
> 
> ...


You shouldn't pay a dime, place a claim with other drivers insurance.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

If you could: I would love to see the verbiage of:
"_Lyft email pressures me to contact my personal insurance carrie_r. "

For all their talk of "Our drivers never have to contact their insurance in the case of an accident with a passenger". Seems like the see a little opportunity here since you did not have a passenger to try and put the accident on the general public's books rather than theirs.

Thank you for not folding to the pressure.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Yes true what of the other drivers insurance? Was there any?


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## gman (Jul 28, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> A pickup truck runs into my passenger side door today. It was not my fault. It was a low speed, non-injury hit and made a big dent. Exchange info etc. Take pictures. Call Lyft. Automatic "temporary" deactivation of account. Collect info, email it in. I was matched with a pax so I was on my way pick up. Full Lyft commercial insurance coverage should apply as primary.
> 
> _Lyft email pressures me to contact my personal insurance carrie_r. Yeah, right.
> 
> ...


Why would you call Lyft at all? If it was clearly the other driver's fault just get their information and proceed.

I have been in two accidents. In both of them I was totally stopped and got rear ended. Both times just got their information and their insurance paid out no problem.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Hi Sacto Burbs,

We were recently notified that you were involved in an accident. Thank you for providing your account of the accident to us. I'm writing to see how you're doing, first and foremost, as well as to let you know that we're here to help and support you throughout this process.

Have you reported this incident to your own insurance? I would encourage you to treat this like you would any other accident as you may be legally obligated to report all incidents to your personal insurance company. We recommend that you refer to the relevant state laws and your personal insurance policy regarding the requirements for reporting accidents.

Please keep us updated on the status of any insurance claims, and let us know if there's anything we can do to help. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to reach out to me.

You can find information on Lyft's insurance options by visiting our Help Center at the following link: https://www.lyft.com/drive/help/article/1229170.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

If it was his fault, his insurance pays. If it doesn't, then sue him.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Hi Sacto Burbs,
> 
> We were recently notified that you were involved in an accident. Thank you for providing your account of the accident to us. I'm writing to see how you're doing, first and foremost, as well as to let you know that we're here to help and support you throughout this process.
> 
> ...


Oh they are not saying report it to get it covered rather just report it because you maybe obligated to. Since the other driver is at fault they are not even really considering covering you yet correct? Not until they determine there is not enough coverage from the other party.


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## Juber (Feb 3, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Hi Sacto Burbs,
> 
> We were recently notified that you were involved in an accident. Thank you for providing your account of the accident to us. I'm writing to see how you're doing, first and foremost, as well as to let you know that we're here to help and support you throughout this process.
> 
> ...


Wow.. cant believe they tried to send you away to your own insurance.. such BS. specially after all that crap about " our $1 million great coverage" you should send to investigative reporter guys with cbs or nbc local news.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Juber said:


> Wow.. cant believe they tried to send you away to your own insurance.. such BS. specially after all that crap about " our $1 million great coverage" you should send to investigative reporter guys with cbs or nbc local news.


They did not say file a claim with his insurance they only said report to his insurance. Bit of a difference.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

gman said:


> Why would you call Lyft at all? If it was clearly the other driver's fault just get their information and proceed.
> 
> I have been in two accidents. In both of them I was totally stopped and got rear ended. Both times just got their information and their insurance paid out no problem.


I have always contacted my own insurance company and let them handle it. The other driver was using a company truck, so has insurance.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Man...I sorry that happened. This could be a giant hassle. Hopefully not. Keep us posted on the various twists and turns with the insurance. I suggest you find a tough reporter who has been covering the rideshare phenomenon, and get them involved with an expose story. Could be the best leverage available if Lyft or the insurance carrier ends up trying to short change you. The ONLY thing these companies fear is bad PR. Lawyers will be to no avail. They're armed to the teeth with attorneys.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> They did not say file a claim with his insurance they only said report to his insurance. Bit of a difference.


Either way his insurance will find out he was driving for hire and drop him if it was personal insurance.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

gman said:


> Why would you call Lyft at all? If it was clearly the other driver's fault just get their information and proceed.
> 
> I have been in two accidents. In both of them I was totally stopped and got rear ended. Both times just got their information and their insurance paid out no problem.


Don't forget, he had a pax in the car. What happens if he didn't report it to Lyft and then all of a sudden next week pax decides his back is killing him.


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## Casandria (Dec 20, 2014)

I totally agree. We all know that the only way to get their attention is via the media. So sorry this happened and I will be following to see what Lyft does. They just temporarily deactivated me because they couldn't read my JPG file showing my updated insurance even though they said to take a picture of it so I sent it again in a PDF. Morons.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Most people are good and won't make a stink, but what if you get a guy that thinks he's got a "Larry H. Parker got me 1.3 million dollars" case.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

THERE WAS NO PAX IN THE CAR. I was on my way to the pickup location.


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## Casandria (Dec 20, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> THERE WAS NO PAX IN THE CAR. I was on my way to the pickup location.


Glad you clarified that. When I first read the post, I thought there was one in the car, but after re-reading it, I see now you were on your way. I guess we all brain farted on that one


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

observer said:


> Either way his insurance will find out he was driving for hire and drop him if it was personal insurance.


Yes but depending on what insurance info OP gave at the scene they other drivers insurance may contact OP's insurance just the same. But you are right you wont get dropped for not reporting an accident (especially one not at fault) could always claim ignorance on that.

lyft just puts that in there because they are afraid of being accused of trying to hide the activity from personal insurers. If the side effect of the vague wording gets some drivers to actually file a claim with the personal insurance and keep it off's Lyfts books then all the better.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Other guy's insurance should pay. I was not at fault. Just documenting the process here. I did just call the other guy's insurance and they said to send the info. Lyft also just emailed this below. But *my *real questions is "Will they Reactivate Me?" once my car is fixed.

Hi Sacto Burbs,

Thank you for sending in the images of the damage to your vehicle. Due to the extent of the damage, we will not be able to reactivate your account until repairs have been completed.

This accident has been reported to our insurance provider, so you should expect to hear from an insurance agent sometime soon. If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Best,


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> The other driver was using a company truck, so has insurance.


Oh then yea no problem. plenty of coverage there you will be fine.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Yea do not see a reason why they would not reactivate you once you send in some new pics of the fixed car and maybe a copy of the repair invoice. That's only fair.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

I gave the Lyft Insurance as my carrier.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> THERE WAS NO PAX IN THE CAR. I was on my way to the pickup location.


Ooooops sorry misread passenger door. 

On my way to optometrist for eye exam.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

It is the "Safety" tag complaint I got last week that I wonder about. Don't know who gave it to me.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> I gave the Lyft Insurance as my carrier.


Did you actually have a certificate printed out? Or did you just read the info from the screen?


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

On your phone, it is there as a .pdf. I just forwarded that to the other driver's email. 

What bugs me about this is I had planned an all day Lyft binge (surge time only) in San Francisco on Thursday to earn some money. Even had a dog sitter lined up. Not to be now.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

IF you can prove up some income history maybe try to put in a claim for lost income. Usually does not work with the personal insurance companies but maybe this commercial insurer may go for it. At least get a rental car for your own transportation.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> THERE WAS NO PAX IN THE CAR. I was on my way to the pickup location.


The other driver has commercial insurance so very likely they will pay quickly and without question to close the claim since you are not claiming injuries. It's minor to them at this point.

You could just not even tell your insurance and have the other guy's insurance deal with you directly of course but if you feel obligated to tell yours why mention lyft unless they ask? I'm assuming no stupid mustache on your car?

I have had 2 accidents where I was sitting at a light and rearended. I'm in houston tx and they never even showed up on my driving record. So not sure I would even tell lyft. Just take a vacation while the car is being fixed.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> On your phone, it is there as a .pdf. I just forwarded that to the other driver's email.
> 
> What bugs me about this is I had planned an all day Lyft binge (surge time only) in San Francisco on Thursday to earn some money. Even had a dog sitter lined up. Not to be now.


Ask the other insurance for lost wages. But I wouldn't mention lyft. They'll likely make an offer just to close the claim. That's what happened to me last year when I was rearended sitting at a light. Was not commercial insurance on his part btw. He hit me and pushed me into the car in front. Young kid on his phone which he couldn't even put down to talk to the cop.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> The other driver has commercial insurance so very likely they will pay quickly and without question to close the claim since you are not claiming injuries. It's minor to them at this point.
> 
> You could just not even tell your insurance and have the other guy's insurance deal with you directly of course but if you feel obligated to tell yours why mention lyft unless they ask? I'm assuming no stupid mustache on your car?
> 
> I have had 2 accidents where I was sitting at a light and rearended. I'm in houston tx and they never even showed up on my driving record. So not sure I would even tell lyft. Just take a vacation while the car is being fixed.


Last year, I parked my truck near a car wash entrance. Some guy pulled up forgot to put his car in park. Got out, couple minutes later it rolls into my passenger side fender. I dealt directly with his insurance, no questions or DL number from me. Took it to their body shop. Quoted 1400 dllrs. They sent me a check. I went over pulled out dent with my bare hands.

If you look really hard you can see it but looks good to me.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

observer said:


> Last year, I parked my truck near a car wash entrance. Some guy pulled up forgot to put his car in park. Got out, couple minutes later it rolls into my passenger side fender. I dealt directly with his insurance, no questions or DL number from me. Took it to their body shop. Quoted 1400 dllrs. They sent me a check. I went over pulled out dent with my bare hands.
> 
> If you look really hard you can see it but looks good to me.


P.S. see above post about me going to optometrist today.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> THERE WAS NO PAX IN THE CAR. I was on my way to the pickup location.


You did report it to your own ins. carrier though? If not, bad mojo. They'll find out anyway if there was an accident report.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

I reported it to Lyft because the other driver and I exchanged insurance company info, just like we are supposed to.

I did not report to my personal insurance because Lyft is primary.

The quote to fix (replace) both passenger doors was $6,800.

No Police report. Police cruiser came by but I didn't flag them down to make an accident report. No injuries.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

You should have reported it to your personal carrier. Might be in Lyfts requirements. It is in Ubers.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> I reported it to Lyft because the other driver and I exchanged insurance company info, just like we are supposed to.
> 
> I did not report to my personal insurance because Lyft is primary.
> 
> ...


POST # 37/ @Sacto Burbs: Quick prayer
going
your way right now. Hope it helps.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

As in "God help me"? . I am glad I un ignored you.

But seriously bison, what software do you use that makes you write in blank verse? it is like reading James Joyce except not for credit.

It is just dawned on me. I must read your posts out loud to hear the music and the dance in them.


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## Casandria (Dec 20, 2014)

@Sacto Burbs It's good for you. It keeps you on your toes


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> THERE WAS NO PAX IN THE CAR. I was on my way to the pickup location.


Huge blessing.


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## Pedruber (Jan 8, 2015)

I guess I don't understand the need to bring up anything about rideshare in this case. I've thought about situations like this and how I would react and I've got several scenarios in mind to describe what I was doing (depending on what area of town I'm in and what time of day or night it is) and none of them would include anything to do with ridesharing. Key point is no pax in car at time of incident. This ads reason to why the middle of the night is likely the worst time to be doing this gig under current conditions. My list of scenarios becomes more far fetched and slimmer the later it is at night.

So four reasons not to work the bar closing crowds now: 1) pukers and 2) your answer to the question which will come up after an accident "what were you doing here?" will need more creativity 3) the fact that statistically there are more drunks out driving and 4) ratings can take a hit.


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## Tony from New Jersey (Jan 21, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> A pickup truck runs into my passenger side door today. It was not my fault. It was a low speed, non-injury hit and made a big dent. Exchange info etc. Take pictures. Call Lyft. Automatic "temporary" deactivation of account. Collect info, email it in. I was matched with a pax so I was on my way pick up. Full Lyft commercial insurance coverage should apply as primary.
> 
> _Lyft email pressures me to contact my personal insurance carrie_r. Yeah, right.
> 
> ...


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## Tony from New Jersey (Jan 21, 2015)

This is cut and paste from the LYFT.
*"Ride request accepted through the end of Lyft ride:*
Our primary liability insurance is designed to act as the primary coverage during the period *from the time you accept a ride request until the time the ride has ended in the app.* The policy has a $1,000,000 per accident limit. Note: If you already carry commercial insurance (or personal coverage providing specific coverage for ridesharing), Lyft's policy will continue to be excess to your insurance coverage."

As you said you had accepted the request and driving to pickup the pax. reading above seems like you were covered by the LYFT insurance policy and the e-mail you received was give you advise to contact your personal insurance company and provide them "information" if it is, infact required by your State.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Tony from New Jersey said:


> This is cut and paste from the LYFT.
> *"Ride request accepted through the end of Lyft ride:*
> Our primary liability insurance is designed to act as the primary coverage during the period *from the time you accept a ride request until the time the ride has ended in the app.* The policy has a $1,000,000 per accident limit. Note: If you already carry commercial insurance (or personal coverage providing specific coverage for ridesharing), Lyft's policy will continue to be excess to your insurance coverage."
> 
> As you said you had accepted the request and driving to pickup the pax. reading above seems like you were covered by the LYFT insurance policy and the e-mail you received was give you advise to contact your personal insurance company and provide them "information" if it is, infact required by your State.


On the practice side of the equations, a driver without their own insurance company pressure on the other drivers insurance to cover, it MAY hinder a settlement, particularly without an official accident report.

The other drivers insurance company may not budge and Lyft is certainly not into this matter like a drivers own insurance company would be.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Other drivers insurance broker, whom I called, was gently nudging me not to contact Lyft, but to deal entirely with the other guys insurance company.​


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Got this today at noon.


Lyft Claim #nnnnnn

This correspondence will acknowledge receipt of the above referenced matter which is now assigned to me for resolution. Please confirm receipt of this email. James River Insurance Company (“James River”) has been put on notice of this matter as the insurer for Lyft.

Please describe the motor vehicle accident in detail. Additionally, is anyone making a claim against Lyft or you at this time? Is anyone injured? Who was in your vehicle at the time of the loss? Please provide all pictures and videos of the accident or damages.

Thank you,


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## headtheball (Jan 26, 2015)

Does uber and lyft both use james river? Who the hell is this guy?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

headtheball said:


> Does uber and lyft both use james river? Who the hell is this guy?


I think he has an offshore registered insurance company in the Cayman Islands. Lives there next to one of Travis' vacation beach homes.


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## headtheball (Jan 26, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Lives there next to one of Travis' vacation beach homes.


Cayman is ugly. Only money lives there.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

headtheball said:


> Cayman is ugly. Only money lives there.


I think the beach house is just a front for James River. He really lives in a protected from financial disclosure cave further inland the entrance of which is guarded by private Blackwater security hired by Goldman Sachs.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Sorry to hear it Sacto, hope things go well and cheaply for you.
My personal opinion is stick to their commercial insurance and try to find a body shop that will get it done quickly. I can't help but feel that you are asking for trouble if you try to claim lost earnings. Insurance companies are weasels and might try to deny your claim on the basis that you were doing something against the law.

I had almost the exact same thing happen to me 2 months ago, driving down my street to pick up a pax, my neighbor pulled out as I went by, did 7K in damage, yes both doors! Immediately cancelled my lift ride, turned off both apps, took pictures, exchanged emails to get it on the record that we had the incident and he admitted fault in the emails, got estimate, presented it to his insurance and they took care of it and my rental. No earnings for 2 weeks but better than opening a can of worms. Never mentioned ride share or told either company, my insurance company does not seem to be any the wiser and frankly I did them a favor, it cost them nothing to process my claim.


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## MikeB (Dec 2, 2014)

headtheball said:


> Does uber and lyft both use james river? Who the hell is this guy?


There used to be James Rivers Coal Company, stock symbol JRCC in West Virginia Appalachian mountains. It went under a few years ago and declared a bankruptcy, so stock tanked.
With a shady ways both Uber and Lyft conduct their business, especially insurance side of it, I would not be terribly surprised to learn one day that this insurance company is the reincarnation of JRCC.


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## UberSneak (Dec 31, 2014)

I had the exact same thing happen (on Halloween!!), damage was to the rear driver side door and rear quarterpanel. I did the same thing, I contacted Lyft, they temporarily deactivated me, they said they would reactivate me once I sent them pictures that I had fixed the car. I had no desire to go through their insurance because of the deductible and because I'd have to be dropped by my insurance (since you have to go to them first). The car I was using then was literally worth $2k at the most, so it was not worth pursuing a claim once the other driver's insurance denied the claim. There were no passengers in the car, the damage to both cars was minor I'd say, and they were both old-ish cars so their value was not much. 
To cut to the point, I bought a new car in December, and when I decided to use it for Lyft, I got reactivated once I sent them the documents. The accident wasn't even brought up. If something similar were to happen again (no pax, minor damage) I would probably not even mention it to them so as not to deal with the hassle of deactivation and reactivation.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Sorry to hear it Sacto, hope things go well and cheaply for you.
> My personal opinion is stick to their commercial insurance and try to find a body shop that will get it done quickly. I can't help but feel that you are asking for trouble if you try to claim lost earnings. Insurance companies are weasels and might try to deny your claim on the basis that you were doing something against the law.
> 
> I had almost the exact same thing happen to me 2 months ago, driving down my street to pick up a pax, my neighbor pulled out as I went by, did 7K in damage, yes both doors! Immediately cancelled my lift ride, turned off both apps, took pictures, exchanged emails to get it on the record that we had the incident and he admitted fault in the emails, got estimate, presented it to his insurance and they took care of it and my rental. No earnings for 2 weeks but better than opening a can of worms. Never mentioned ride share or told either company, my insurance company does not seem to be any the wiser and frankly I did them a favor, it cost them nothing to process my claim.


Is this a case of the kettle calling the pot black?


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## THE MAN! (Feb 13, 2015)

Should of just handled it as any other accident. No pax in car, other driver was at fault end of story. Had someone rear end me when I had app on. Her fault, her insurance paid out. No reason to complicate when no pax involved.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

THE MAN! said:


> Should of just handled it as any other accident. No pax in car, other driver was at fault end of story. Had someone rear end me when I had app on. Her fault, her insurance paid out. No reason to complicate when no pax involved.


I had the same thing happen. Got lucky and no one questioned it. Then considered my insurance risk levels had it been more serious, which it easily could have been, and got commercial coverage.

I had had enough 'close calls' by then to see that by being on the road 50-70 hours a week was exposing myself to a lot more potential risks than I was willing to take a chance with.

And we can now see from this thread that 4 drivers here had accidents that were related to TNC driving, and that 3 of them dodged the insurance bullets.  One didn't get paid. I doubt the insurance industry is going to continue to be so kind to higher risk drivers, even though in all 4 cases it was someone else's fault.

None of us would have had these claims were we not on the road doing the gig. And none of these incidents are showing up YET for the insurance actuaries or maybe they are and they'll catch up to the scam soon.


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## jackstraww (Jan 20, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> I have always contacted my own insurance company and let them handle it. The other driver was using a company truck, so has insurance.


Id just do what you have done in the past- - it seems like its worked out,and you have no problem with doin that way -that it was a company truck helps ,they shouldnt have any problem working thru their insurance- - I dont see a giant issue- - lottsa luck


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

observer said:


> Is this a case of the kettle calling the pot black?


What. about insurance companies being weasels? I suppose you are right but it's easier for me to rationalize my moral compass


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Disgusted Driver said:


> What. about insurance companies being weasels? I suppose you are right but it's easier for me to rationalize my moral compass


I like your honesty.


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## THE MAN! (Feb 13, 2015)

Those like myself, VA driver and MD now provide ridesharing insurance (Geico). Commercial though, is the only way to go until your state offers it. When I started only way you could operate was with commercial insurance, motor carrier license and for hire tags (just like limo). Then Uber allowed to operate what we now know as pier to pier or peer to peer, seen it spelled both ways. Watch has put us all at risk little did we know!


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

UPDATE

Other guy's insurance did the estimate last week. Higher than my car dealer's body shop. 

New info:

A friend pointed out I need to put in for "diminished value" on the car since it will be harder to sell now that it has now been in an accident.

It has been one month now since the accident.


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## MikeB (Dec 2, 2014)

There is no diminished value law in California.
Google it.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

MikeB said:


> There is no diminished value law in California.
> Google it.


Double negative in the paragraph but...

There are only two states where case law does not support recovery of diminished value in a negligence cause of action. California is not one of those states. New case law in California is clear that it IS possible to recover for the diminished value of your vehicle if you are able to prove your loss.

So, if you have a car accident in California and your vehicle is repaired, how do you know how much your California diminished value claims are worth and how do you recover it?

...

In California, the small claims courts are very effective and they do not allow attorneys, so it makes the process do-able for anybody that has the persistence to fight for justice.​
http://diminishedvalueexpert.com/california-diminished-value-claims/

On another site they suggest you put in the cost of the repair as the "diminished value" before you hire a professional appraiser. It seems that Insurance companies already have a book with the correct values in them.


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## MikeB (Dec 2, 2014)

You type too much. Get this: in California you won't get a penny trying to bully an insurance co. for diminished value.


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## Jen C (Apr 8, 2015)

I am dealing with the same thing with uber. Was on my way to pick up a pax when I was rear ended at a stop light by a drunk driver. He fled the scene but was caught and arrested a short time later. That was almost two weeks ago. Uber insurance has been of no help and the claims adjuster won't return my calls. There is no insurance info listed for the guy who hit me on any of the reports. Insurance lady left a message on my voicemail basically saying it's up to me to get this guy or his insurance to pay, and have a nice life. We are out at all hours of the day and night making tons of money for these companies, and at the end of the day they do not have our backs. They know that thanks to their advertising there will always be another driver to take our place once we are fed up...or when our.cars are damaged to the point we can't drive.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Jen C You didn't get his insurance and ID at the scene because it was a hit and run right? But you do know who he is now from the police report, right? You can tell James River that he was an uninsured driver. and tell them to pay up.

Keep plugging away. I have posted the info on the thread about your accident.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/i-got-in-an-accident.17488/page-6#post-246766


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

MikeB said:


> You type too much. Get this: in California you won't get a penny trying to bully an insurance co. for diminished value.


Proof ? Your credential ? I've read the case law. Have you?


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## MikeB (Dec 2, 2014)

Do you want to bet, Sacto?


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## Jen C (Apr 8, 2015)

I couldn't get his insurance info at the scene because he took off. Once the cops found him I was about half a block away and was asked to identify him...but to stay back so he couldn't see me. Found out later he's had 28 arrests and citations not including the dui and hit and run from rear ending me. I went to the.bmv, city county building, spent forever on the phone, and still can't get anyone to find out if he has insurance or not. James Rivers basically said it's up to me to sort it out. I'm also hearing that if he is uninsured I will have to pay a $1000 deductible.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Jen C said:


> I couldn't get his insurance info at the scene because he took off. Once the cops found him I was about half a block away and was asked to identify him...but to stay back so he couldn't see me. Found out later he's had 28 arrests and citations not including the dui and hit and run from rear ending me. I went to the.bmv, city county building, spent forever on the phone, and still can't get anyone to find out if he has insurance or not. James Rivers basically said it's up to me to sort it out. I'm also hearing that if he is uninsured I will have to pay a $1000 deductible.


...is your own insurance company involved ?? Are you not concerned that you insurance company will cancel your policy for violating it's terms?


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

MikeB said:


> You type too much. Get this: in California you won't get a penny trying to bully an insurance co. for diminished value.


...I have to agree (from sad personal experience). Attempting to recover diminished value is next to impossible in MOST states.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Jen C said:


> I am dealing with the same thing with uber. Was on my way to pick up a pax when I was rear ended at a stop light by a drunk driver. He fled the scene but was caught and arrested a short time later. That was almost two weeks ago. Uber insurance has been of no help and the claims adjuster won't return my calls. There is no insurance info listed for the guy who hit me on any of the reports. Insurance lady left a message on my voicemail basically saying it's up to me to get this guy or his insurance to pay, and have a nice life. We are out at all hours of the day and night making tons of money for these companies, and at the end of the day they do not have our backs. They know that thanks to their advertising there will always be another driver to take our place once we are fed up...or when our.cars are damaged to the point we can't drive.


Spread the word. Best of luck to you. There is a reporter on here. He is with a San Franciso tv station looking to do a story on Uber's subprime loan racket. That is such obvious thievery. I really wish they would look into this kind of issue. Given that the typical Uber recruit is encouraged not to disclose their rideshare activity with their personal insurance Co...... and then they leave on his own to fend for himself, as if he was hoisted hoisted by his own petard at the scene of the accident.

I'll try to find that thread where that reporter introduced himself. You should be heard.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Jen C Here is the link where the reporter introduces himself. If he is interested in doing a piece on Uber financing, well he may be interested in understanding the kind of ledge most actual Uber drivers are up against.

Peace.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/just-curious-about-uber-financing.17226/#post-246177


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Update: 

Other guy's insurance is claiming that I'm 25% at fault. They said I can take their offer or have James River contact them. Also agreed to consider diminished value but first I have to get the CarFax report. Needless to say, I'm now calling James River.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

MikeB said:


> Do you want to bet, Sacto?


Yeah. Groveling apology from the one who was in the wrong, deal?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Update:
> 
> Other guy's insurance is claiming that I'm 25% at fault. They said I can take their offer or have James River contact them. Also agreed to consider diminished value but first I have to get the CarFax report. Needless to say, I'm now calling James River.


What is their argument for that? How is it 25% your fault when one car runs into the side of another?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Update:
> 
> Other guy's insurance is claiming that I'm 25% at fault. They said I can take their offer or have James River contact them. Also agreed to consider diminished value but first I have to get the CarFax report. Needless to say, I'm now calling James River.


Good luck Sir.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Yeah. Groveling apology from the one who was in the wrong, deal?


What's some groveling amongst motorists.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> What is their argument for that? How is it 25% your fault when one car runs into the side of another?


" extra precaution on your part should have been exercised before making your right turn. Making a clear and absolute lookout to ensure that there were no vehicles to your right and no vehicles to the right rear of your vehicle before making the turn would have been prudent in this case."

Other guy had cut into the bike lane on my right at the last minute planning on continuing straight, and T boned me as I made my right turn. LOL. Typical insurance double talk - never accept their first offer.

Interesting other info

"As I stated before, my offer stands at 75%. If you do not want to accept this offer, you will have to go through your own carrier and have them subrogate to me."

"For your loss of use, I will be able to cover one month of your Lyft earnings."

"Once all damages have been assessed and the vehicle repaired, we can begin the process of the diminished value claim. I will need a Carfax report. If you are able to generate one for your vehicle that will expedite matters."


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Cry me a river with the James River.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Proof ? Your credential ? I've read the case law. Have you?


No not yet. Thanks for asking though.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> " extra precaution on your part should have been exercised before making your right turn. Making a clear and absolute lookout to ensure that there were no vehicles to your right and no vehicles to the right rear of your vehicle before making the turn would have been prudent in this case."
> 
> Other guy had cut into the bike lane on my right at the last minute planning on continuing straight, and T boned me as I made my right turn.


Absolute nonsense. By that logic, drivers should stop or slow at all green lights to ensure that nobody else is running a red, otherwise they will be held 25% responsible for any accident caused by the person shooting the red. Laughable.

The guy who hit your car was in the wrong, and also guilty of lane violations. Yes, you _may_ have been able to prevent the accident had you thought to look in the mirror for delinquent drivers, but then you could also have prevented the accident 100% by staying on bed all day. What an idiot. Tell him to stop talking nonsense and pony up.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Update. From James River

Good morning Sacto Burbs,

I have read the below correspondences, and this appears to be a word vs word claim. They are opting to consider their driver's statement and placing some negligence on you for inattentive driving. Without an independent witness, it is tough to combat this. Your options are to either accept their offer, or file with us and allow to fight this claim for you. Keep in mind that there is no guarantee that we will succeed in getting more than their offer, and *it will cost you Lyft's deductible of $2500 upfront if you file with us.* What would you like to do?

Jay


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## djino (Mar 15, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> *it will cost you Lyft's deductible of $2500 upfront if you file with us.* What would you like to do?


WTF? lol


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Update:

Other guy's insurance upped their offer from 75% to 80% and sent out checks. I rejected the offer in writing to them.

Then discovered Metromile has second-by-second log of my location proving I was not at fault. Sent the data to the other guy's insurance. In the mean time ...

James River says they will pay my full $7,000 repair cost less $2,500. No car rental, nothing for lost wages, diminished value of car not discussed If they collect more from the other guy's insurance, they will give it to me. (Can't think how they could).

Current offer means I would be out of pocket $800, and that includes reimbursements for lost wages & rental car - less 20%, and $60 doctor visit at cost. "Diminished value" would be the difference between the current CarFax report and the one after I get the work done.

I'll hold the checks and continue negotiating.


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## Kia21 (Apr 14, 2015)

headtheball said:


> Does uber and lyft both use james river? Who the hell is this guy?


I wonder seriously lyft probably owned by Travis brother


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

*Update*: Car looks spanking new on the outside. I paid the $7,000 myself. Body shop did not report it to CarFax, and there is no Police report.

There the car sits ... tempting me - but I had my iPhone5 stolen the day before I picked up the car, so cannot Uber. And now the Lyft $2,500 deductible stares me in the face. Next step is to send my car receipts to the other guy's insurance and fill out a small claims court filing to push them into paying 100%.

If they say no, I'll file it. No doubt a long wait for the case to be heard.

Now I need the cheapest Adroid phone I can get so I can use Google Maps as nav with Uber. Who wants to sell me one?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> *Update*: Car looks spanking new on the outside. I paid the $7,000 myself. Body shop did not report it to CarFax, and there is no Police report.
> 
> There the car sits ... tempting me - but I had my iPhone5 stolen the day before I picked up the car, so cannot Uber. And now the Lyft $2,500 deductible stares me in the face. Next step is to send my car receipts to the other guy's insurance and fill out a small claims court filing to push them into paying 100%.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you got your wheels back. So in the end, this is going to cost you $4500 plus the lost wages......

If you paid out of pocket and you intend to contest this with the driver's insurance company. Where does the Lyft deductible come into play? I need to go back and reread. I assume this is the original thread, this has been quite the saga.

Regardless, you have handled the whole thing well. Good for you and enjoy your car.

Update to your update: I just noticed the post from James River concerning what now seems like a $2500 lawyer fee to have them go to bat for you. Can you go for the $2500 lawyer fee too? It doesn't seem fair to call it a deductible at that point. You have paid out of pocket, you are going after the other guy's insurance to pay........ This sounds like $7000 plus an additional $2500 to James River don't it? Maybe I am missing something.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Huberis said:


> Glad to hear you got your wheels back. So in the end, this is going to cost you $4500 plus the lost wages......
> 
> If you paid out of pocket and you intend to contest this with the driver's insurance company. Where does the Lyft deductible come into play? I need to go back and reread. I assume this is the original thread, this has been quite the saga.
> 
> ...


Here is what James River would pay, no questions asked, decide I am 100% NOT at fault, and would "try" and get more from the other guy's insurance.

1. Cost of repair minus $2,500 which is* $4,500*. (that is all, absolutely nothing else) * 
*
*I am out of pocket $2,500*​
Other guys insurance (as of today), concluding I am 20% at fault (I have the uncashed checks in hand)

1. 80% of the cost of repair which is - *$5,600*
2. 80% of one month's lost wages -*$600*
3. 80% of car rental while mine is in the shop
4. 100% of the single doctor visit

*I am out of pocket $800*​


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Here is what James River would pay, no questions asked, decide I am 100% NOT at fault, and would "try" and get more from the other guy's insurance.
> 
> 1. Cost of repair minus $2,500 which is* $4,500*. (that is all, absolutely nothing else) *
> *
> ...


There you go, thank you. You might want to do Blog about this entire experience, what happened, what you discovered, how you will proceed from here. There were two or three other drivers who had accidents around the time of yours. I don't know if Tim From Ma was one of them or simply commented on one of those threads. The accident was in Boston at least and the driver was using a Tundra. The driver the crossed paths with was another Uber driver with pax on board. The other incident involved a woman who may have been new to Uber.

I lost track of those two threads, you have remained a presence. Well done.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Y


Huberis said:


> There you go, thank you. You might want to do Blog about this entire experience, what happened, what you discovered, how you will proceed from here. There were two or three other drivers who had accidents around the time of yours. I don't know if Tim From Ma was one of them or simply commented on one of those threads. The accident was in Boston at least and the driver was using a Tundra. The driver the crossed paths with was another Uber driver with pax on board. The other incident involved a woman who may have been new to Uber.
> 
> I lost track of those two threads, you have remained a presence. Well done.


You can ghostwrite it for me.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Y
> 
> You can ghostwrite it for me.


Ok. Ummmmmmm ya. well Without ruminating over it, I'll do my best and set the stage for you, give you some perspiration:
"it was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."

That is all I could come up with, I didn't think I had it in me.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Huberis said:


> Ok. Ummmmmmm ya. well Without ruminating over it, I'll do my best and set the stage for you, give you some perspiration:
> "it was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only."
> 
> That is all I could come up with, I didn't think I had it in me.


Plagiarism! F minus grade for you.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Plagiarism! F minus grade for you.


I'm still trying to master the whole copy and paste thing. Guess you will have to do it yourself.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Huberis said:


> I'm still trying to master the whole copy and paste thing. Guess you will have to do it yourself.


And you are paying me how much ?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

I will send you a box of California Almonds. Perhaps the gesture will bring a slow steady rain to the state. Everyone in California will benefit.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> *Update*: Car looks spanking new on the outside. I paid the $7,000 myself. Body shop did not report it to CarFax, and there is no Police report.
> 
> There the car sits ... tempting me - but I had my iPhone5 stolen the day before I picked up the car, so cannot Uber. And now the Lyft $2,500 deductible stares me in the face. Next step is to send my car receipts to the other guy's insurance and fill out a small claims court filing to push them into paying 100%.
> 
> ...


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Huberis said:


> I will send you a box of California Almonds. Perhaps the gesture will bring a slow steady rain to the state. Everyone in California will benefit.


A can a week is all we ask


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

A can? You mean like Campbells chicken noodle soup?


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)




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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

Huberis said:


> There you go, thank you. You might want to do Blog about this entire experience, what happened, what you discovered, how you will proceed from here. There were two or three other drivers who had accidents around the time of yours. I don't know if Tim From Ma was one of them or simply commented on one of those threads. The accident was in Boston at least and the driver was using a Tundra. The driver the crossed paths with was another Uber driver with pax on board. The other incident involved a woman who may have been new to Uber.
> 
> I lost track of those two threads, you have remained a presence. Well done.


Yep, that was me. Mine had a happy ending. I ended up paying nothing out of pocket.

You can read the original thread here:

http://www.uberpeople.net/threads/t-boned-by-another-uber-driver.16596/


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Final judgement was that the defendant (the owner of the truck that hit me) "did not owe plaintiff any money on the Plaintiff's claim" in small claims court. I cashed the checks - which only covering 80% of my costs - right after I left the court.

First, I only sued the company, not the other driver. But the company made the driver show up to defend the case. I did call the company and the owner refused to pay the full $1,600 but asked what I wanted. I was out of pocket $800. The other $800 was "loss of wages". No idea what he would have settled for, but told him to just tell the insurance company to pay on the claim, which would cost him nothing. He refused, and said to go ahead with the court case.

At small claims court the Judge started complaining when he found out he would have to figure out what actually might have happened in the intersection. Knew the intersection area very well. Refused to look at the MetroMile evidence I provided and complained when I asked him to review it - and didn't. 

It was my first time at the intersection. The other driver was all chummy saying how "everyone knows" that you create a second lane ... etc. 

After the hearing, the other driver wished me luck with the case. (I was suing his company because I did not know how to serve the driver with papers.) I considered the accident one that could happen to anyone, which is why there was insurance. A stupid mistake on his part, but not dangerous driving.

So without a dash cam = you are screwed. If the other insurance company wants to screw you over, small claims court will help them. I'm out $800 on the repairs and an additional $75 court costs and $60 process server fee.

All because Lyft has a $2,500 deductible.

After the judge heard there were no witnesses, he punted.

End of this story.


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## headtheball (Jan 26, 2015)

Sorry man.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Torture.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

observer said:


> You shouldn't pay a dime, place a claim with other drivers insurance.


Yes! and he might want to visit one of those chiropractors that have an attorney's office in the same building.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

There is something missing from this story. The insurance company won in court meaning the judge had a reason to believe their 80% claim. What was that reason?


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## New2Uber15 (Oct 8, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> There is something missing from this story. The insurance company won in court meaning the judge had a reason to believe their 80% claim. What was that reason?


I just read the thread, and I didn't see anywhere that he stated that the insurance company won in the court.
Far as I know, the person who hit him gave his story to the insurance company. They knew their guy was 100% at fault, but who wants to pay full price for anything?
They decided to just pay the guy, but the full price thing kicked in. They would pay him(they know their guy was at fault) but didn't want to give him the entire 100%.
Maybe insurance court never actually happend. This tends to only come into play when both insurance companies deny fault.
The OP took them to small claims court! 
He could have had LYFT insurance take the other guys insurance company to court, but IF he would have won, he would have had to pay the deductible of $2500???

I would have went to chiropractor if you were in pain(remember, pain you don't feel now, doesn't mean you will not feel it a year or 2 from now) and went to court after that using lyfts insurance people. That way, even AFTER the deductible of $2500, you would have gotten more, or broken even(because pain and suffering would have come into play)


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

New2Uber15 said:


> I just read the thread, and I didn't see anywhere that he stated that the insurance company won in the court.
> Far as I know, the person who hit him gave his story to the insurance company. They knew their guy was 100% at fault, but who wants to pay full price for anything?
> They decided to just pay the guy, but the full price thing kicked in. They would pay him(they know their guy was at fault) but didn't want to give him the entire 100%.
> Maybe insurance court never actually happend. This tends to only come into play when both insurance companies deny fault.
> ...


I went to the doctor right away, and if there had been pain later I had a baseline. No physical pain, though. Other driver's insurance company does not participate in arbitration i.e. "insurance court". I would have won there because a fact ins claimed driver said, driver denied to me in person.

Take home lesson - with no witnesses, ins co will NEVER pay out 100%. Get A Dash Cam.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

New2Uber15 said:


> I just read the thread, and I didn't see anywhere that he stated that the insurance company won in the court.


He sued the insurance company and they won.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> I went to the doctor right away, and if there had been pain later I had a baseline. No physical pain, though. Other driver's insurance company does not participate in arbitration i.e. "insurance court". I would have won there because a fact ins claimed driver said, driver denied to me in person.
> 
> Take home lesson - with no witnesses, ins co will NEVER pay out 100%. Get A Dash Cam.


Have you looked into supplemental insurance to cover the deductible for the future? They are cheap.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> He sued the insurance company and they won.


Not quite,I sued the company that owned the truck in small claims court and did not win any extra money.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Not quite,I sued the company that owned the truck in small claims court and did not win any extra money.


Yes, you sued the insurance company. What reason did the judge give for the 80%? He had to say something about the accident and why he came to that conclusion.


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## jackstraww (Jan 20, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> End of this story.


Live & learn I guess-----


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