# Less than minimum wage



## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

So I've only been driving one week ... I have 45 trips ... And I'm based out of Grand Rapids, Mi ... Anyways on Friday and Today I'm averaging 8 dollars an hour BEFORE gas insurance and depreciation is taken into account ... That's much less than minimum wage ... I wanted to see what driving for uber would be like, but if things continue this way I will quit ... When I started I was obsessed with having a good rating which I do at 4.9 ... But what's the point of having a good rating if I make less than someone at McDonald's ? Lol


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

You're doing pretty well. Imagine trying to make what you are if your rates were $0.70/mile.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

************ said:


> So I've only been driving one week ... I have 45 trips ... And I'm based out of Grand Rapids, Mi ... Anyways on Friday and Today I'm averaging 8 dollars an hour BEFORE gas insurance and depreciation is taken into account ... That's much less than minimum wage ... I wanted to see what driving for uber would be like, but if things continue this way I will quit ... When I started I was obsessed with having a good rating which I do at 4.9 ... But what's the point of having a good rating if I make less than someone at McDonald's ? Lol


Yea, you are actually losing $, in one of the highest rate markets left in the country.
You have to count all miles driven from the time you leave home, and then take that x $.57, thats ur true cost to obtain ur little post uber cut take home. So if you run 100 miles in a night, your working for free break even point is gross fares of $80. If you gross $120, you net only $27. If that takes 5 hrs = $5/hr. Uber is a loser for drivers now almost anywhere in the country.
Again, you are in one of the best markets in the country. In the $.75/mile cities (Detroit), drivers lose $ from the minute they leave home. Only the unemployed desperados are still doing it. They are just selling & eating their car one piece at a time (at a 50% discount) and rationalizing it as an "hourly wage earned" Very sad :-(


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> You're doing pretty well. Imagine trying to make what you are if your rates were $0.70/mile.





Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Yea, you are actually losing $, in one of the highest rate markets left in the country.
> You have to count all miles driven from the time you leave home, and then


Gr recently cut rates ... This is slave labor I think I'm done after tonight


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Yea, you are actually losing $, in one of the highest rate markets left in the country.
> You have to count all miles driven from the time you leave home, and then take that x $.57, thats ur true cost to obtain ur little post uber cut take home. -(


how can you say that .57 is his true cost?
do you even know what type of car he drives?
how do you know his car wasnt given to him free?
it simply doesnt cost everybody 57cents/mile to maintain their car,but everyone wants to throw that out there to make the per hour wage appear worse,smh

as for him making $8/hr, i would love to know why
first i would need to know his per mile per min rate
then i assume he's getting very few rides per hour as well
i mean there are so many unknown variable to his post, but yet you are clearly adamant that he cant make money


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> how can you say that .57 is his true cost?
> do you even know what type of car he drives?
> how do you know his car wasnt given to him free?
> it simply doesnt cost everybody 57cents/mile to maintain their car,but everyone wants to throw that out there to make the per hour wage appear worse,smh
> ...


The demand in my area for a Saturday night is pathetic


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> how can you say that .57 is his true cost?
> do you even know what type of car he drives?
> how do you know his car wasnt given to him free?
> it simply doesnt cost everybody 57cents/mile to maintain their car,but everyone wants to throw that out there to make the per hour wage appear worse,smh
> ...


$.57 is pretty standard, but even if he was somehow at only $.30/mile (this includes gas, u cant get any lower), he would still be losing money. The rate is $1/mile in his market, which means $.50/mile, if typically 50% paid. Plus, it sounds like the $8 was pre safe rider & uber 20%, so now ur down to $5/hr, b4 any expenses. I applaude him for recognizing the deferred costs, that most people turn a blind eye to, and just treat anything above gas$ as profit. Nobody can net any real $ under $1.40-$1.50/mile, that simple. Wake up!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> how can you say that .57 is his true cost?
> do you even know what type of car he drives?
> how do you know his car wasnt given to him free?
> it simply doesnt cost everybody 57cents/mile to maintain their car,but everyone wants to throw that out there to make the per hour wage appear worse,smh
> ...


Oh Bart, it sure sounds like Ur one of the desperados still driving for $.75/mile, please say it aint so!
There's a very good reason that taxis charge north of $2/mile ... Dah.
Thats whats required to clear a decent profit!


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Oh Bart, it sure sounds like Ur one of the desperados still driving for $.75/mile, please say it aint so!
> There's a very good reason that taxis charge north of $2/mile ... Dah.
> Thats whats required to clear a decent profit!


my point is just becuase the IRS gives ou 57.5 cents a mile, it in no way means thats how much it takes to maintain your car
yet you and everybody else will throw that 57.5 cents into everybody's driving equation to make it seem like they are driving for peanuts
my market is still over $1/mile, but i only do the $20 or greater gurantees thank you
i dont advise anyone to drive for 65 cents or 75 cents/mile,but that has nothing to do with the point im making about the IRS 57.5


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> my point is just becuase the IRS gives ou 57.5 cents a mile, it in no way means thats how much it takes to maintain your car
> yet you and everybody else will throw that 57.5 cents into everybody's driving equation to make it seem like they are driving for peanuts
> my market is still over $1/mile, but i only do the $20 or greater gurantees thank you
> i dont advise anyone to drive for 65 cents or 75 cents/mile,but that has nothing to do with the point im making about the IRS 57.5


 They are not just driving for peanuts, they are driving at a LOSS! How many times do I have to break this out??? I am not just "throwing out the IRS number", these are the undeniable real costs!
Even if you rationalize/wiggle ur way down to $.40/mile, ur still losing money at anything below $1.20/mile, that is about the break even point (working for free). U need to be near $2/mile to truely net a profit, and make it worth driving. Even @ $2.00 (which doesnt exist), ur talking about a true net of $5-8/hr (worse than McDonalds), just accept it, stop arguing, and ... get a real job!
Yes, $.57/mile to operate ur car is totally real, you arent really "earning" any money, you are just "eating your car" one bite at a time. Your car is just loaning you money, and you are just rationalizing it as an "hourly wage earned", that simple. At $1.20/mile ur working for free, cuz half your miles have no paying pax, so ur netting about $.46/mile after uber cut. The $.57 includes gas ($.10), oil, tires, brakes, hoses, belts ... Etc.($.05), repairs ($.05). (Actually, insurance is not part of this number, that is personal) Now take a $35K car, and call it dead at 100,000 miles, thats $.35/mile. There you go, pretty simple. Once over 100,000 miles, repairs will be north of $.35/mile anyway.
Even if you drive a shitty old beater, ur gonna be maybe $.05-.10 cheaper, is all. If your not north of $1.50/mile you're losing money, that simple. One of my buddies tried using an older Blazer, he thought he was "killing it" grossing about $700/week ($400 net after uber cut & gas). After his very first month of Ubering and "hitting it hard", he had a $1200 repair bill on his beater! Haha, he worked the whole month for free ... Aaaarg. :-(


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> They are not just driving for peanuts, they are driving at a LOSS! How many times do I have to break this out??? I am not just "throwing out the IRS number", these are the undeniable real costs!
> Even if you rationalize/wiggle ur way down to $.40/mile, ur still losing money at anything below $1.20/mile, that is about the break even point (working for free). U need to be near $2/mile to truely net a profit, and make it worth driving. Even @ $2.00 (which doesnt exist), ur talking about a true net of $5-8/hr (worse than McDonalds), just accept it, stop arguing, and ... get a real job!. :-(


so $2/mile for UberX which doesnt exist gets broken down to 5-8/hr?
since it doesnt excist you're calling every driver, even in the highest paying markets a complete fool then right?
i have a very hard time believing $2/mile,and at that rate probably 30-50cent a minute, can be broken down to below min wage
i guess the current $26/hr gurantee im doing, even though its 1 ride per hour, you'll say im making $6/hour????????


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## uber_sea (Jan 9, 2015)

Guarantees are a different game. The more you drive, the less you make when you play the guarantees.

But he's correct, most drivers are losing money driving at these rates.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

uber_sea said:


> But he's correct, most drivers are losing money driving at these rates.


may be, but he said at $2/mile, you're still making 5-8 bucks an hour. you agree with that too??????????


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> so $2/mile for UberX which doesnt exist gets broken down to 5-8/hr?
> since it doesnt excist you're calling every driver, even in the highest paying markets a complete fool then right?
> i have a very hard time believing $2/mile,and at that rate probably 30-50cent a minute, can be broken down to below min wage
> i guess the current $26/hr gurantee im doing, even though its 1 ride per hour, you'll say im making $6/hour????????


Yes, unfortunately ... Everyone still driving is a fool. Congrats on gaming the guarantees, but they are very temporary, and you are living like a vampire! In fact if ur not out there right now ... Ur not qualifying. The "guarantees" are only "fare booking guarantees", and are bullshit! Uber still takes SRF's, plus 20%, so ur already down below $20/hr b4 expenses. You still have to get there, take some rides, & incur expenses, so now ur maybe at $10-12/hr. max. Congrats, ur now working at WallMart. At least here, you must work 6 shifts a week from 7pm to 3am (live like a vampire), & meet all kinds of other unreasonable criteria. And If you do all that, they guarantee you 80% before miles and expenses.. So, maybe $10/hr, kinda, if you qualify. (Picking up 3am pukers) Its BS!
No thanks! But ... You can tell all ur friends and pretend you're making ... What was it ... $26/hr?! LOL You are really only netting about $10/hr and never see the sun, and the guarantee game will be over in a few short weeks, then you lose $ from the moment you leave ur house, even as a vampire with no life. LOL


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Yes, unfortunately ... Everyone still driving is a fool. Congrats on gaming the guarantees, but they are very temporary, and you are living like a vampire! In fact if ur not out there right now ... Ur not qualifying. The "guarantees" are only "fare booking guarantees", and are bullshit! Uber still takes SRF's, plus 20%, so ur already down below $20/hr b4 expenses. You still have to get there, take some rides, & incur expenses, so now ur maybe at $10-12/hr. max. Congrats, ur now working at WallMart. At least here, you must work 6 shifts a week from 7pm to 3am (live like a vampire), & meet all kinds of other unreasonable criteria. And If you do all that, they guarantee you 80% before miles and expenses.. So, maybe $10/hr, kinda, if you qualify. (Picking up 3am pukers) Its BS!
> No thanks! But ... You can tell all ur friends and pretend you're making ... What was it ... $26/hr?! LOL You are really only netting about $10/hr and never see the sun, and the guarantee game will be over in a few short weeks, then you lose $ from the moment you leave ur house, even as a vampire with no life. LOL


well you live in detroit, 75cents a mile, so I assume you're not a driver
since Uber hasnt paid $2/mile for Uberx in god knows how long, you havent driven in months
so whats your point of being on this forum again?


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> well you live in detroit, 75cents a mile, so I assume you're not a driver
> since Uber hasnt paid $2/mile for Uberx in god knows how long, you havent driven in months
> so whats your point of being on this forum again?


Besides trying to save some drivers that cant do math ... Im trying to STOP THE INSANITY, and start an uprising!
Every Uber driver should be on strike right now! But there's waaaay too many desparados that need to "eat their car" :-(
I only drive Lyft now, only 10-15 hours/week (the sweet spot), and only @ 200%+ primetime ($3/mile).
Plus Lyft riders tip 50% of the time


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Besides trying to save some drivers that cant do math ... Im trying to STOP THE INSANITY, and start an uprising!
> Every Uber driver should be on strike right now! But there's waaaay too many desparados that need to "eat their car" :-(
> I only drive Lyft now, only 10-15 hours/week (the sweet spot), and only @ 200%+ primetime ($3/mile).
> Plus Lyft riders tip 50% of the time


WOW, you gotta be kidding me. Uber and lyft are basically the same thing where you drive and have dead miles,car depreciates, blah blah
but you you say to drive for Uber for less than $2/mile is losing money walking out the door, but driving for Lyft is profitable???
wtf, what a hypocrite


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> WOW, you gotta be kidding me. Uber and lyft are basically the same thing where you drive and have dead miles,car depreciates, blah blah
> but you you say to drive for Uber for less than $2/mile is losing money walking out the door, but driving for Lyft is profitable???
> wtf, what a hypocrite


What part of $3/mile plus consistant tips did u not understand???


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> What part of $3/mile plus consistant tips did u not understand???


sure lyft has a tip function in their app
and of course you're gonna exploit that and say u get tips all the time
if $3/mile was so prevalent as you trying to make it seem to be, dont you think NOBODY would be driving for Uber and everybody would be at lyft? why would would people drive for uber at 65 cents, when they can make $3/mile with you at lyft? come on now


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> I only drive Lyft now, only 10-15 hours/week (the sweet spot), and only @ 200%+ primetime ($3/mile).
> Plus Lyft riders tip 50% of the time


so explain to me how this 200% primetime is different than catching 2x,3x and 4x surges with Uber???????????????????????????????????????


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> sure lyft has a tip function in their app
> and of course you're gonna exploit that and say u get tips all the time
> if $3/mile was so prevalent as you trying to make it seem to be, dont you think NOBODY would be driving for Uber and everybody would be at lyft? why would would people drive for uber at 65 cents, when they can make $3/mile with you at lyft? come on now


First off, Lyft has not lowered their base rates to the rediculousness of Uber. Secondly, the $3/mile surging thing with Lyft coincides with my strategic "sweet spot" window of only 10-15hrs/week. Most people need/want to do 50 hours. Third, not as many drivers even know about Lyft, or their better rates, or tipping. Fourth, Lyft is MUCH harder to get into than Uber. You have to actually pass a personality interview/road test/inspection with a real person, and over half the Uber drivers that try are rejected. Not just everone gets in like Uber. :-(


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

Bart McCoy keeps trying to use that IRS 0.57 as leverage money as the difference between actual cost and the IRS level for an individual driver may be different providing some drivers a higher income. Bart's failure here is that he does not understand that each driver is a business onto itself that isw allowed that difference by law, regardless the amount. This is not a playground for Uber to play with, so if Uber's idea is that in reality drivers are making more money than they claim based on this difference, than they are further trying to abuse us as contractors. What frosts my balls the most is we are supposed to be contractors, yet we have no right to input in the writing of our contract, no right to challenge of our contract, and no expectation of change of our contract to our favor. Uber has taken a worse than communist approach to our contracts which is simply to tell us we work for nothing or we do not work, and we cannot do a damn thing about it. Then to keep us the streets they impose "Guarantees" which dictate every parameter of how you must work to get paid. Give that a moments thought! You are now Uber's employee. Do you not see this? They can tell you that you have to work certain hours, how many hours you must work and how many rides you have to give and, etc. GUESS WHAT! If you are playing the Guarantee game you ARE an EMPLOYEE of UBER! In a world dictated by ASSHOLES don't you wish they would wipe more often?


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> First off, Lyft has not lowered their base rates to the rediculousness of Uber. Secondly, the $3/mile surging thing with Lyft coincides with my strategic "sweet spot" window of only 10-15hrs/week. Most people need/want to do 50 hours. Third, not as many drivers even know about Lyft, or their better rates, or tipping. Fourth, Lyft is MUCH harder to get into than Uber. You have to actually pass a personality interview/road test/inspection with a real person, and over half the Uber drivers that try are rejected. Not just everone gets in like Uber. :-(


hahah, dont try to make it seem like Lyft is of some higher echelon of ridesharing lol
heck, Uber may put them out of business


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Rich Brunelle said:


> Bart McCoy keeps trying to use that IRS 0.57 as leverage money as the difference between actual cost and the IRS level for an individual driver may be different providing some drivers a higher income. Bart's failure here is that he does not understand that each driver is a business onto itself that isw allowed that difference by law, regardless the amount. This is not a playground for Uber to play with, so if Uber's idea is that in reality drivers are making more money than they claim based on this difference, than they are further trying to abuse us as contractors. What frosts my balls the most is we are supposed to be contractors, yet we have no right to input in the writing of our contract, no right to challenge of our contract, and no expectation of change of our contract to our favor. Uber has taken a worse than communist approach to our contracts which is simply to tell us we work for nothing or we do not work, and we cannot do a damn thing about it. Then to keep us the streets they impose "Guarantees" which dictate every parameter of how you must work to get paid. Give that a moments thought! You are now Uber's employee. Do you not see this? They can tell you that you have to work certain hours, how many hours you must work and how many rides you have to give and, etc. GUESS WHAT! If you are playing the Guarantee game you ARE an EMPLOYEE of UBER! In a world dictated by ASSHOLES don't you wish they would wipe more often?


couple things
you do agree that not everyone's cost to own/maintain a car is 57.5 cents now right? if you dont agree this will be my last post ever responding to you

i am not blind to whats going on. I see what Uber is doing. however, in the right market and under the right circumstances, theres is money to be made

yes the gurantee pays. and I dont dispute, working the gurantee pretty much feels like being an employee
but i game the gurantee. so i'll be that employee chilling for 4 hours, then making 8 short trips the next 4 hours
i'll take that trade off for $26/hour. not bad at all when you count the mileage just to do lil trips


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> my point is just becuase the IRS gives ou 57.5 cents a mile, it in no way means thats how much it takes to maintain your car
> yet you and everybody else will throw that 57.5 cents into everybody's driving equation to make it seem like they are driving for peanuts
> my market is still over $1/mile, but i only do the $20 or greater gurantees thank you
> i dont advise anyone to drive for 65 cents or 75 cents/mile,but that has nothing to do with the point im making about the IRS 57.5


how do you guarantee the fare will be over 20?


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> so explain to me how this 200% primetime is different than catching 2x,3x and 4x surges with Uber???????????????????????????????????????


The Lyft base rate is almost double Uber's. Hey, if you only take 4x surging Uber rides, then yes, you are profitable! (& might occasionally see the sun ... Tee-hee) All my Lyft pax ask y cant i find an uber anymore, and I say any (former) Uber driver with a brain is on strike right now, cuz Travis is prostituting us! Pax are actually saying "I want to pay more" so I can get a reliable ride! Travis has fumbled the ball!


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

************ said:


> how do you guarantee the fare will be over 20?


you must be a new driver
i can do no trips for 2 hours, but still get paid $20 for each hour


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> couple things
> you do agree that not everyone's cost to own/maintain a car is 57.5 cents now right? if you dont agree this will be my last post ever responding to you
> 
> i am not blind to whats going on. I see what Uber is doing. however, in the right market and under the right circumstances, theres is money to be made
> ...


Ah ah ahh ... Remember, the $26 is really just $10 (true net), but u can tell all ur friends ur making $26! LOL


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> T All my Lyft pax ask y cant i find an uber anymore, and I say any (former) Uber driver with a brain is on strike right now, cuz Travis is prostituting us! Pax are actually saying "I want to pay more" so I can get a reliable ride! Travis has fumbled the ball!


cut it out
Uber is all over the place
and you clearly can get a reliable ride even from someone driving for 65cents/mile


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Ah ah ahh ... Remember, the $26 is really just $10 (true net), but u can tell all ur friends ur making $26! LOL


if i do 8 short trips (min fare,2mile each) in 8 hours i get paid $208
please tell me how that equates to $80 true net??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> couple things
> you do agree that not everyone's cost to own/maintain a car is 57.5 cents now right? if you dont agree this will be my last post ever responding to you
> 
> i am not blind to whats going on. I see what Uber is doing. however, in the right market and under the right circumstances, theres is money to be made
> ...


Bart, I am not finding fault with your noting there is likely additional income hidden in that 0.57. What I am saying is, nobody should even be considering that there might be income in that money. We are a business. What it costs you to drive your car to provide services is your business and if Uber is taking the belief that this difference can be considered a part of driver income, they have stepped all the way down to abuse of their drivers. You might only be at 0.35, while I am at 0.55. to Uber we are supposed to always be the same, at 0.57. I am convinced that Uber is a bunch of eggheads trying to read a database, but do not know what language it is. As an IC you are a business. You are entitled to earn a true profit. True profit means you actually pay yourself a salary and still have profit to bank for the company. Not their company, but your company. Until you have an adequate income that provides you that ability, who cares about the difference between how you spend the extra or less on the 0.57?


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> cut it out
> Uber is all over the place
> and you clearly can get a reliable ride even from someone driving for 65cents/mile


No, we have about a 20 square mile area out in the burbs now where it always says "no uberx available"!


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> you must be a new driver
> i can do no trips for 2 hours, but still get paid $20 for each hour


 please explain yes I am new


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

************ said:


> please explain yes I am new


its called gaming the guarantees
if your market pays you close to a dollar or well under it, you should surely do the gurantees

Uber will gurantee to pay you a set amount per hour, regardless if you get a ride or not, as long as you make up for it by the end of the week
meaning , if you were at home with the app on for 4 hours, and drove no pax,you would need to then go our and work 4 more hours (a total of 8) and get 8 short rides at min. If you do that, Uber will pay you for the 4 hours you sat at home playing playstation

we encourage more and more people to game the gurantee like this
because this way you get paid maximum for doing very little work
compared to now doing a lot of work, just to get paid 70cents a mile or so


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> hahah, dont try to make it seem like Lyft is of some higher echelon of ridesharing lol
> heck, Uber may put them out of business


Oh there's no question that it absolutely is. Lyfts rates are better, they care about their drivers, & the passengers much prefer it. Keep in mind I was the #1 Uber driver in this market last year & with a 4.94 rating and was hesitant to switch but now I have seen the light, Lyft is MUCH better, if u can get in!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> if i do 8 short trips (min fare,2mile each) in 8 hours i get paid $208
> please tell me how that equates to $80 true net??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Nope, u only get $160 before any expenses, assuming u actually qualified all the hoops. $208-$8SRF= $200x.8= $160, then minus gas, dep. @ all the expenses, chop u down to $10-12/hr :-( Bart, even you know that this is only a "fare booking guarantee" & not an hourly wage guarantee & uber still takes $1 SFR + 20%, the driver never gets anywhere near $26/hr, or $208! It just sickens me when an Uber driver says "I am making" $20 an hour, when in reality they're just too dumb to realize that they are actually losing money!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> its called gaming the guarantees
> if your market pays you close to a dollar or well under it, you should surely do the gurantees
> 
> Uber will gurantee to pay you a set amount per hour, regardless if you get a ride or not, as long as you make up for it by the end of the week
> ...


To qualify for the guarantees, @ least here, you can't "be at home playing PlayStation" you must be in a designated area, you must have 90% acceptance rate, and you must do one trip each & every hour or you don't qualify, & there is no "making it up later". Typically, the guarantee is a trick that Uber never has to pay out on, because if you except 90% of all requests you're going to end up exceeding the "booking guarantee" and putting on a ton of miles and ultimately losing money anyway :-( Who are u trying to kid? Uber just doesnt offer guarantees in a "stay @ home" no ping area.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Nope, u only get $160 before any expenses, assuming u actually qualified all the hoops. $208-$8SRF= $200x.8= $160, then minus gas, dep. @ all the expenses, chop u down to $10-12/hr :-( Bart, even you know that this is only a "fare booking guarantee" & not an hourly wage guarantee & uber still takes $1 SFR + 20%, the driver never gets anywhere near $26/hr, or $208! It just sickens me when an Uber driver says "I am making" $20 an hour, when in reality they're just too dumb to realize that they are actually losing money!


you're just saying anything now,8 short trips is not costing me $10/hour to run my car when half that was sitting doing nothign!!
you might have had a slight case if i did 18 trips in 8 hours
again, you're just saying there's gonna be min wage pay for ANY type of sneario, smh


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> To qualify for the guarantees, @ least here, you can't "be at home playing PlayStation" you must be in a designated area, you must have 90% acceptance rate, and you must do one trip each & every hour or you don't qualify, & there is no "making it up later". Typically, the guarantee is a trick that Uber never has to pay out on, because if you except 90% of all requests you're going to end up exceeding the "booking guarantee" and putting on a ton of miles and ultimately losing money anyway :-( Who are u trying to kid? Uber just doesnt offer guarantees in a "stay @ home" no ping area.


what do you mean designated area? if so, im you're you must be in one of 2% of all regions
all the guarantees I see only say you have to be in your region obviously,but you can hang on the edge of it,or in any place in the region thats slow
but im done talking to you about guarantees: either you're a troll or you're a new driver and dont know about gurantees
you said we cant makie it up later, oh yeh?
i could go out for 8 hours and do zero trips. at that point i didnt quality for the 1 per hour part, but i was online 50min and accepted all pings(because I got none). According to you I cant make it up?
Just trolling, goodbye


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> so $2/mile for UberX *which doesnt exist* gets broken down to 5-8/hr?


Yes it does. In fact, it exists in Uber's most lucrative market. New York City is $2.15 per mile for UberX.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Yes it does. In fact, it exists in Uber's most lucrative market. New York City is $2.15 per mile for UberX.


i was just going with what the guy was saying
so if NYC does get that much, they still averaging out to $5/$6 per hour? he would never explain the math to get it down to so low


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> i was just going with what the guy was saying
> so if NYC does get that much, they still averaging out to $5/$6 per hour? he would never explain the math to get it down to so low


From what I've read New York City Uber drivers make similar to what taxi drivers make, which is about $35K per year. Whether or not that's minimum wage depends on how many hours they work, and how much in regulatory fees they pay out of that. From what I understand, being a cabbie or being an Uber driver in NYC is pretty much a wash financially. It's six of one, and half a dozen of the other. It's also a market Uber doesn't want to experiment with given it's a HUGE percentage of Uber's revenue. The rest of us in other cities are being treated like guinea pigs. Will drivers work for as little as $1 an hour? Only way to find out is to test it.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> From what I've read New York City Uber drivers make similar to what taxi drivers make, which is about $35K per year. Whether or not that's minimum wage depends on how many hours they work, and how much in regulatory fees they pay out of that. From what I understand, being a cabbie or being an Uber driver in NYC is pretty much a wash financially. It's six of one, and half a dozen of the other. It's also a market Uber doesn't want to experiment with given it's a HUGE percentage of Uber's revenue. The rest of us in other cities are being treated like guinea pigs. Will drivers work for as little as $1 an hour? Only way to find out is to test it.


well i see NYC is reguated and you have to have comm insurance which is thousands of dollars a year
so I wouldnt use that place as an example of making good money at $2.15/hour
of course most people in all the Uber US markets do not have to get TLC licenses or comm insurance and all that other stuff to Uber
not having to pay all that, but getting paid $2.15/mile + a per min rate, i want to see the math on how he says you are still making only $5-8/hour
if thats the case, people driving for $1 or less must get paid about $1-4 an hour


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> if thats the case, people driving for $1 or less must get paid about $1-4 an hour


After all their real costs, some are.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> After all their real costs, some are.


75cents/mile or lower? I can believe that though


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> 75cents/mile or lower? I can believe that though


I'm at $1/mile in my city, and the best I can squeak out without benefit of surges or guarantees is right around minimum wage, and that requires doing things that Uber doesn't like, like ignoring unprofitable pings and only giving customers five minutes before cancelling on them. If you worked the way Uber wants you to work for $1/mile, it's less than minimum wage (again assuming no surge or guarantee add ins).

My car is at $0.32 mile cost, so I could increase my profit by getting an old beater and dropping costs to $0.20. But if this spring Uber's just going to drop my rates to $0.70 per mile, then even a $0.20 cost car driver is going to struggle to make minimum wage.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> how can you say that .57 is his true cost?
> do you even know what type of car he drives?
> how do you know his car wasnt given to him free?
> it simply doesnt cost everybody 57cents/mile to maintain their car,but everyone wants to throw that out there to make the per hour wage appear worse,smh
> ...


So, you must be suggesting that UBER drivers use stolen cars, siphon petrol and run tollgates to help keep running costs below 57cents?

That would work, for about as long as Uber plans to stick around


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> I'm at $1/mile in my city, and the best I can squeak out without benefit of surges or guarantees is right around minimum wage, and that requires doing things that Uber doesn't like, like ignoring unprofitable pings and only giving customers five minutes before cancelling on them. If you worked the way Uber wants you to work for $1/mile, it's less than minimum wage (again assuming no surge or guarantee add ins).
> 
> My car is at $0.32 mile cost, so I could increase my profit by getting an old beater and dropping costs to $0.20. But if this spring Uber's just going to drop my rates to $0.70 per mile, then even a $0.20 cost car driver is going to struggle to make minimum wage.


well my market is at just above a dollar too
i dont drive "regular"
i only drive for the gurantees. So far in 3 weeks i have had no problem with Uber paying them
i only do the $20 and $26 guarantees, I dont waste my time with the $16 one
the gurantees go and I quit


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> well my market is at just above a dollar too
> i dont drive "regular"
> i only drive for the gurantees. So far in 3 weeks i have had no problem with Uber paying them
> i only do the $20 and $26 guarantees, I dont waste my time with the $16 one
> the gurantees go and I quit


I was doing only the guarantees too, and doing it very profitibly.... but my city just changed the guarantee, and it looks like whoever came up with the new system examined what i was doing and made the new system to keep me from doing what I was doing.

So I'm done. If they let me be UberSelect only, then I'll drive again.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> So, you must be suggesting that UBER drivers use stolen cars, siphon petrol and run tollgates to help keep running costs below 57cents?
> 
> That would work, for about as long as Uber plans to stick around


Let the forum know how bright you are : you're saying everybody's cost to own/maintain is 57.5cents a mile?


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Let the forum know how bright you are : you're saying everybody's cost to own/maintain is 57.5cents a mile?


Yes Bart, as far as anyone is concerned the government says $0.57 and that is what we as independent small business owners claim our expense to be. Even if it cast us less, it still is at $0.57 because that is the rate we are allowed to claim.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> well i see NYC is reguated and you have to have comm insurance which is thousands of dollars a year
> so I wouldnt use that place as an example of making good money at $2.15/hour
> of course most people in all the Uber US markets do not have to get TLC licenses or comm insurance and all that other stuff to Uber
> not having to pay all that, but getting paid $2.15/mile + a per min rate, i want to see the math on how he says you are still making only $5-8/hour
> if thats the case, people driving for $1 or less must get paid about $1-4 an hour


No no no, the people that drive for $1 or less dont make ANYTHING, they LOSE $! That works out to a NEGATIVE hourly wage! I've explained the math a million times, U just wont accept it! $2/mile = $1.4 after uber cut (its really 30% inc. SRF) x 50% dead miles = $.70/mile - $.57 = $.13/mile left over. Yes, this is an actual true net profit! Now if you go out and somehow put on 200 miles in say 5 hours, you net $26, there you go ... $5/hr, still worse than Burger King! At $1.5/mile, U approach break even and are working for free, anything below that ur losing! Everyone just wants to turn a blind eye to all the dead miles and deferred expenses and just look at cash flow above gas money.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> you're just saying anything now,8 short trips is not costing me $10/hour to run my car when half that was sitting doing nothign!!
> you might have had a slight case if i did 18 trips in 8 hours
> again, you're just saying there's gonna be min wage pay for ANY type of sneario, smh


Why did you say "Uber pays me $208", when that's not true at all?


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Let the forum know how bright you are : you're saying everybody's cost to own/maintain is 57.5cents a mile?


Even if somehow you rationalize it down to 30 cents, you still lose $


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> No no no, the people that drive for $1 or less dont make ANYTHING, they LOSE $! That works out to a NEGATIVE hourly wage! I've explained the math a million times, U just wont accept it! $2/mile = $1.4 after uber cut (its really 30% inc. SRF) x 50% dead miles = $.70/mile - $.57 = $.13/mile left over. Yes, this is an actual true net profit! Now if you go out and somehow put on 200 miles in say 5 hours, you net $26, there you go ... $5/hr, still worse than Burger King! At $1.5/mile, U approach break even and are working for free, anything below that ur losing! Everyone just wants to turn a blind eye to all the dead miles and deferred expenses and just look at cash flow above gas money.


oh brother, another one of you guys



Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Why did you say "Uber pays me $208", when that's not true at all?


um, clearly if you know math that's gross pay at the gurantee rate, smh



Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Even if somehow you rationalize it down to 30 cents, you still lose $


so now you saying, nobody's car costs them less than 30cents/mile to drive? even if they got a brand new car free from their parents huh? why do you assume everybody's situation is the same that it costs 57.5 cents a mile to maintain? smh
another "expert"


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> what do you mean designated area? if so, im you're you must be in one of 2% of all regions
> all the guarantees I see only say you have to be in your region obviously,but you can hang on the edge of it,or in any place in the region thats slow
> but im done talking to you about guarantees: either you're a troll or you're a new driver and dont know about gurantees
> you said we cant makie it up later, oh yeh?
> ...


U have to do 50mins, accept 90%, and ... U MUST complete 1 trip each hour, or you get $0 guarantee for that hour, no, U cant "make it up later", that hour is gone, pays $0! Again, Uber doesn't just put guarantees in no ping areas, where u can just stay home anyway.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> oh brother, another one of you guys
> 
> um, clearly if you know math that's gross pay at the gurantee rate, smh
> 
> ...


Well now, ur just being stupid.
Obviously we are talking about the avg. guy, 95% of the population against the Uber formula.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Rich Brunelle said:


> Yes Bart, as far as anyone is concerned the government says $0.57 and that is what we as independent small business owners claim our expense to be. Even if it cast us less, it still is at $0.57 because that is the rate we are allowed to claim.


being allowed to claim and actual cost to drive per mile are TWO different things. stop trying to cloud the 2 together. I'm not debating what the IRS gives us, we all know that. I'm talking about ACTUAL cost to maintain. You telling me IRS know exactly how much it costs to maintain my car without knowing my situation? cut it out


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> U have to do 50mins, accept 90%, and ... U MUST complete 1 trip each hour, or you get $0 guarantee for that hour, no, U cant "make it up later", that hour is gone, pays $0! .


you obviously dont know how gurantees work,so please, dont comment further, you are only misleading the readers


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> being allowed to claim and actual cost to drive per mile are TWO different things. stop trying to cloud the 2 together. I'm not debating what the IRS gives us, we all know that. I'm talking about ACTUAL cost to maintain. You telling me IRS know exactly how much it costs to maintain my car without knowing my situation? cut it out


Sure, u could be a little higher or lower, this is a general example that applies to most of the population. Almost ALL drivers are losing $. But, if it'l make You feel better, lets just pretend that YOUR car & gas is FREE, & YOU are making tons of profit!!!


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> U have to do 50mins, accept 90%, and ... U MUST complete 1 trip each hour, or you get $0 guarantee for that hour, no, U cant "make it up later", that hour is gone, pays $0! Again, Uber doesn't just put guarantees in no ping areas, where u can just stay home anyway.


I can state from weeks of experience doing it that you're wrong.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> you obviously dont know how gurantees work,so please, dont comment further, you are only misleading the readers


I have learned that the requirements vary in different cities, I guess you're on the ... "PlayStation Guarantee"! Enjoy it while it lasts! LOL


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> I can state from weeks of experience doing it that you're wrong.


THANK YOU



Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> I have learned that the requirements vary in different cities, I guess you're on the ... "PlayStation Guarantee"! Enjoy it while it lasts! LOL


yes they vary, but for the most part, you can make up the gurantee, even if you sit for 4 hours doing nothing
obviously if i sit for 4 hours, get paid $0,and dont make the gurantee, I wouldnt be touting it,smh
you may laugh, but there are many people like me doing min work, while getting paid for others doing twice as much work,by gaming the gurantees


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

************ said:


> So I've only been driving one week ... I have 45 trips ... And I'm based out of Grand Rapids, Mi ... Anyways on Friday and Today I'm averaging 8 dollars an hour BEFORE gas insurance and depreciation is taken into account ... That's much less than minimum wage ... I wanted to see what driving for uber would be like, but if things continue this way I will quit ... When I started I was obsessed with having a good rating which I do at 4.9 ... But what's the point of having a good rating if I make less than someone at McDonald's ? Lol


Welcome to UberX std. fare land. I doubt it will last long. Most drivers realize after a very short period of time running UberX std. rates they ain't makin' SQUAT. And if they have any sense at all they realize it's not worth the time or effort.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> so explain to me how this 200% primetime is different than catching 2x,3x and 4x surges with Uber???????????????????????????????????????


Lyft is not as vicious with their prime time as Uber is with surge. Generally less price gouging.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> WOW, you gotta be kidding me. Uber and lyft are basically the same thing where you drive and have dead miles,car depreciates, blah blah
> but you you say to drive for Uber for less than $2/mile is losing money walking out the door, but driving for Lyft is profitable???
> wtf, what a hypocrite


I'll vouch for Lyft Bart. You obviously don't know math.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Besides trying to save some drivers that cant do math ... Im trying to STOP THE INSANITY, and start an uprising!
> Every Uber driver should be on strike right now! But there's waaaay too many desparados that need to "eat their car" :-(
> I only drive Lyft now, only 10-15 hours/week (the sweet spot), and only @ 200%+ primetime ($3/mile).
> Plus Lyft riders tip 50% of the time


If drivers don't know how to run the math, DON'T TELL THEM...! 

Uber deserves to have the math illiterate drivers.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I'll vouch for Lyft Bart. You obviously don't know math.


funny i dont see people in the Lyft forum here rippin and raving about how they make $3/mile and crushes Uber, smh


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> so $2/mile for UberX which doesnt exist gets broken down to 5-8/hr?
> since it doesnt excist you're calling every driver, even in the highest paying markets a complete fool then right?
> i have a very hard time believing $2/mile,and at that rate probably 30-50cent a minute, can be broken down to below min wage
> *i guess the current $26/hr gurantee* im doing, even though its 1 ride per hour, you'll say im making $6/hour????????


IF Uber wasn't paying the guarantees the numbers of drivers would be reduced substantially, instantly.

Every driver who made a habit of NOT doing Uber's guarantees has already stopped driving for Uber other than if they 'chose' to do real pay *with surges.*


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

************ said:


> So I've only been driving one week ... I have 45 trips ... And I'm based out of Grand Rapids, Mi ... Anyways on Friday and Today I'm averaging 8 dollars an hour BEFORE gas insurance and depreciation is taken into account ... That's much less than minimum wage ... I wanted to see what driving for uber would be like, but if things continue this way I will quit ... When I started I was obsessed with having a good rating which I do at 4.9 ... But what's the point of having a good rating if I make less than someone at McDonald's ? Lol


Give it some time and stay consistent with your hours. It's not a job its a business. Everyone wants to be self employed until they find out you don't always make money and sometimes you can loose money! I know a guy who has been driving a cab for 25 years in a small town and is now 72 years old still going strong. His strategy is to work 6am to 6pm six days a week. He works those hours when its busy and slow, never goes home early. He has busy weeks and slow weeks but at the end of the year he's made $75000 or more. If you can't live with having slow days or even weeks its not your type of gig. Pick your hours and stick with them for while, then decide. Try not to evaluate every single day it will drive you crazy. good luck


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

uber_sea said:


> Guarantees are a different game. *The more you drive, the less you make when you play the guarantees.*
> 
> But he's correct, most drivers are losing money driving at these rates.


*That's why it was such a piss poor strategy by Uber.* How many drivers have we heard here who take the guarantee and then HIDE OUT so they don't have to actually take more than the min. amount of fares? Basically ALL of them!

Uber lost every driver who didn't do their guarantees prior, which were the smarter ones who worked their asses off to hustle fares.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> funny i dont see people in the Lyft forum here rippin and raving about how they make $3/mile and crushes Uber, smh


You don't hear many Lyft drivers complainin' either do ya smart guy?


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> funny i dont see people in the Lyft forum here rippin and raving about how they make $3/mile and crushes Uber, smh


Do you really sit in your car 8 hours per nite til 3am, 6 nights a week, to "game" the guarantee? Here, they require that you complete 6 8hr shifts, all til 3am.
I am NEVER doing that! Get a life!


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> You don't hear many Lyft drivers complainin' either do ya smart guy?


look at the size of the lyft forum
then look at this whole site dedediated to Uber
then get back to me.................



Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Do you really sit in your car 8 hours per nite til 3am, 6 nights a week, to "game" the guarantee? Here, they require that you complete 6 8hr shifts, all til 3am.
> I am NEVER doing that! Get a life!


obviously, when I talk about doing guarantees, I'm talking about in my market. Um, thats the only guarantees I can do,smh
and obviously, our gurantees dont work any where near what you are describing
however, if I was in your market, Im sure i could figure out how to game that guarantee
you just have to be smart
and i know, not an easy task for you......................


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> look at the size of the lyft forum
> then look at this whole site dedediated to Uber
> then get back to me.................


It's my experience that currently, Lyft drivers are not only smarter, they are math literate and happy driving for Lyft. If I wasn't I'd say so. So would other drivers.



> obviously, when I talk about doing guarantees, I'm talking about in my market. Um, thats the only guarantees I can do,smh


Never said otherwise. Every driver here who does the Uber guarantees is 'gaming' them i.e. hiding out so they only have to do the minimum number of fares. *Yeah, that's a great plan by Uber huh?*

*They are paying guarantees because anyone with half wit with a brain wouldn't drive for what they pay.
*


> and obviously, our gurantees dont work any where near what you are describing
> however, if I was in your market, Im sure i could figure out how to game that guarantee
> you just have to be smart
> and i know, not an easy task for you......................


I never did their guarantees and never will. Too many loopholes for my liking.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> It's my experience that currently, Lyft drivers are not only smarter, they are math literate and happy driving for Lyft. If I wasn't I'd say so. So would other drivers.
> 
> .


cut it out with all this Lyft praise
they are only 1 cut away from being in the same Uber low pay boat


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## Rich Brunelle (Jan 15, 2015)

lol


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> cut it out with all this Lyft praise
> they are only 1 cut away from being in the same Uber low pay boat


Do the math Bart. It's the only metric that matters.

The guarantees are math as well. So hats off to anyone who can make a profit doing that too.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> cut it out with all this Lyft praise
> they are only 1 cut away from being in the same Uber low pay boat


Yeah, I don't get it. So there's less stinky poop out there than Uber's. So what?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Yeah, I don't get it. So there's less stinky poop out there than Uber's. So what?


A simple math lesson.

Lyft min. fare: $5
Uber min. fare: $4

Lyft doesn't take out an SRF (from the drivers end.) Minus 20% only. So, net $4 to driver.
Uber, as we are all quite aware of: Net to driver, $2.40.

Is there a math difference? Uh, yes.

Half the pax will also throw a buck or 2 tip if yer half assed decent/civil. Plus $1 on min. fare for Lyft.

Bottom line? 
Net to driver on Lyft min. fare: $5
Net to driver on Uber min. fare: $2.40

Is there a difference? hmmmm? Will have to think about that one for awhile...


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> A simple math lesson.
> 
> Lyft min. fare: $5
> Uber min. fare: $4
> ...


You're right. Their shit does stink less.

Again, so what?


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

LoL


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> A simple math lesson.
> 
> Half the pax will also throw a buck or 2 tip if yer half assed decent/civil.
> ...


Well i dont drive for Lyft, so im more than happy to learn more about it
but you telling me if i do 500 trips, on avg, i will get tipped 250 times??????????
because taking a pax from point A to point B is simply not rocket science,i can easily be civil


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> You're right. Their shit does stink less.
> 
> Again, so what?


I'd call 100% more net to driver on min. fares a significant difference.

Would you?

For me this gig is always and only about the math. I could go on with other beneficial observations about Lyft. For example, they spread their fare requests over the available pool in a defined (by their algo/area.) So there is no jostling for position to be the nearest driver to get the fare. *Result?* Finish a fare and sit within a block or 2 of last stop. You'll get your turn when it turns. So *dramatically less dead miles.*


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I'd call 100% more net to driver on min. fares a significant difference.
> 
> Would you?
> *.*


but you used $4min Uber fare in the example
mine is $5
some people's are $6
but i guess taking a market with $4min makes your example look better


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> Well i dont drive for Lyft, so im more than happen to learn more about it
> but you telling me if i do 500 trips, on avg, i will get tipped 250 times??????????
> because taking a pax from point A to point B is simply not rocket science,i can easily be civil


I easily run a 10% tip rate of my gross fare. Some days it's 20%. Some days slightly less than 10%. But I'm comfortable with saying it's a 10% average of the gross fare. Dramatically much better than the JACK SHIT cheap ass pax thru Uber.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I'd call 100% more net to driver on min. fares a significant difference.
> 
> Would you?
> 
> For me this gig is always and only about the math. I could go on with other beneficial observations about Lyft. For example, they spread their fare requests over the available pool in a defined (by their algo/area.) So there is no jostling for position to be the nearest driver to get the fare. *Result?* Finish a fare and sit within a block or 2 of last stop. You'll get your turn when it turns. So *dramatically less dead miles.*


If I'm doing either Uber or Lyft for minimum fares, I'd shoot myself.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> If I'm doing either Uber or Lyft for minimum fares, I'd shoot myself.


I can tolerate some min. fares with Lyft. I can't with Uber for obvious math reasons.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I easily run a 10% tip rate of my gross fare. Some days it's 20%. Some days slightly less than 10%. But I'm comfortable with saying it's a 10% average of the gross fare. Dramatically much better than the JACK SHIT cheap ass pax thru Uber.


that sounds great
but explain to me again why there are so many more drivers for Uber instead of lyft?
are people contending they just dont know about lyft?
why are people choosing to drive for 75cents a mile,instead of $3/mile for lyft?
and dont tell me Uber people arent good enough to drive for lyft lol, dont even start that


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> that sounds great
> but explain to me again why there are so many more drivers for Uber instead of lyft?


More ignorant drivers with Uber? More drivers with no credit, no jobs and a high end lease to make them captive slaves?


> are people contending they just dont know about lyft?


I'd have to say it may be area dependent. If Lyft follows Uber down the rate shitter I'll be the first guy to leave them.


> why are people choosing to drive for 75cents a mile,instead of $3/mile for lyft?


It's not difficult with Lyft to obtain a net to driver on paid miles to the $2.50 mark, which makes the math work. With less dead miles it's OK. Not saying I could survive doing just min. fares, but that is usually never the day to day case. I'd say the min. fares run less than 1/3 of overall fares.


> and dont tell me Uber people arent good enough to drive for lyft lol, dont even start that


I'd just say Uber deserves the drivers they have.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Welcome to UBER land idan. Enjoy the forum. Never a dull moment. This thread could use Raquel to add some spice to it.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> that sounds great
> but explain to me again why there are so many more drivers for Uber instead of lyft?
> are people contending they just dont know about lyft?
> why are people choosing to drive for 75cents a mile,instead of $3/mile for lyft?
> and dont tell me Uber people arent good enough to drive for lyft lol, dont even start that


There are way more Uber drivers because they are waaay bigger, they have 10 times the rider base, cuz they got a 2 year head start, and yes they have lower driver standards than Lyft. Remember, my $3/mile with Lyft was only a very limited 10-15hr strategic "sweet spot" of driving time, not 60hrs/week like most drivers need. And not just anybody can pull it off, you have to be very very smart! LOL


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> More ignorant drivers with Uber? More drivers with no credit, no jobs and a high end lease to make them captive slaves?
> 
> I'd have to say it may be area dependent. If Lyft follows Uber down the rate shitter I'll be the first guy to leave them.
> 
> ...


well when Uber lyfts the guarantees im done
i guess it cant hurt to try lyft
i just dont want to go through the whole process just for them to lower the rate by the time i start
but the whole min fare thing: i really dont see a diff between uber min fare and lyft min fare. and if so, its negligible 
been looking at postmates too
i wont consider sidecar


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> but you used $4min Uber fare in the example
> mine is $5
> some people's are $6
> but i guess taking a market with $4min makes your example look better


Lyft is $1 higher in pretty much all markets, so the example works everywhere.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> A simple math lesson.
> 
> Lyft min. fare: $5
> Uber min. fare: $4
> ...


And you left out the Power Driver bonus!


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Lyft is $1 higher in pretty much all markets, so the example works everywhere.


funny, clearly doesnt work in my market where its $5 for both, smh


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> And you left out the Power Driver bonus!


Shhhhhh....


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> funny, clearly doesnt work in my market where its $5 for both, smh


Ok, but the no rider fee, and tips still make a massive difference!
Please dont try to call 50-100% difference "negligible" again, thats just ignorant.
Plus, Lyft offers a bonus opportunity to earn back their 20% cut!


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> Let the forum know how bright you are : you're saying everybody's cost to own/maintain is 57.5cents a mile?


Not sure if i have this right, doesn't your income have to be at a certain level before the alternate deduction method can be used? Would you agree that threshold is beyond most Uber driver's income?

If a Prius costs 30cents per mile to run and the IRS allows 57 cents per mile (annually adjusted up) don't you think there's a message there?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> If I'm doing either Uber or Lyft for minimum fares, I'd shoot myself.


Another math lesson. It's not uncommon to run 3 min. fares an hour with Lyft, even during the week, IF you know where to go to get in line. For me that can amount to $18 an hour with about 6-9 miles of total driving. My hard cost on those miles including vehicle DEPRECIATION is $2.70-4.05. If it leans to the slightly longer min. fare trips, I'll also get more in tips because I have longer to 'relate with them' enough to get them.

Is that minimum wage? I'd call it more like cake work. Even notching it down to 2 an hour is still survivable. But in reality that never happens. You get some shorties and you get far more longer trips.


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## uber_sea (Jan 9, 2015)

Bart, try out lyft. You'll notice the difference in passengers and your income.

Minimum fare for lyft in Seattle = $4.00 Safe Rider Fee = $1.95. 
Pax total paid $4.00 + $1.95 = $5.95
Driver net $4.00 x .8 = $3.20 + 10-20% Tip.

Minimum fare for uber = $4.00 Safe Rider Fee = $1.20 ($.20 city Surcharge)
Pax total paid $4.20.
Driver net on min fare = $4 - 1 = $3 x .8 = $2.40.

as you can see. On a minimum fare here lyft drivers makes 33% more + tips. Its definitely better to be driving for lyft.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Another math lesson. It's not uncommon to run 3 min. fares an hour with Lyft, even during the week, IF you know where to go to get in line. For me that can amount to $18 an hour with about 6-9 miles of total driving. My hard cost on those miles including vehicle DEPRECIATION is $2.70-4.05. If it leans to the slightly longer min. fare trips, I'll also get more in tips because I have longer to 'relate with them' enough to get them.
> 
> Is that minimum wage? I'd call it more like cake work. Even notching it down to 2 an hour is still survivable. But in reality that never happens. You get some shorties and you get far more longer trips.


Lyft left my city last month... so it's a hard sell if you're trying to sell me.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Lyft left my city last month... so it's a hard sell if you're trying to sell me.


Just saying the math works. If it's not available for you what can I say? Maybe Lyft knows something you don't? I suspect that where a high degree of illegal ride share driving is going on Lyft may tend to retract their pink nips and let Uber and their drivers take the hits til the storm clears.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Just saying the math works. If it's not available for you what can I say? Maybe Lyft knows something you don't? I suspect that where a high degree of illegal ride share driving is going on Lyft may tend to retract their pink nips and let Uber and their drivers take the hits til the storm clears.


The city passed new laws to make it legal in September. Just months later Lyft said they were leaving because the laws made it too hard for them to get enough drivers to meet the demand they were generating. They announced this just days before Uber dropped the rates. Too bad. I, as well as many other local drivers would have joined Lyft in response to Uber's rate cut here. They would have been swarmed with new drivers already licensed by the city. Really dumb on their part.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

uber_sea said:


> Bart, try out lyft. You'll notice the difference in passengers and your income.
> 
> Minimum fare for lyft in Seattle = $4.00 Safe Rider Fee = $1.95.
> Pax total paid $4.00 + $1.95 = $5.95
> ...


im going to sign up next week
can you promise me they wont cut rates down to Uber's level?


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## uber_sea (Jan 9, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> im going to sign up next week
> can you promise me they wont cut rates down to Uber's level?


I can't. In fact I believe they will follow suit and drop their prices to compete. At least in the very near future.
It doesn't cost you a thing to apply though, takes maybe an hour of your time. You can always just do one trip a month to stay active and hope for a pay increase in the distant future.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

They keep sending me texts and emails to complete my mentor session and "earn $800 this weekend". I'd have to drive to Cincinnati or some other city to do it.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> im going to sign up next week
> can you promise me they wont cut rates down to Uber's level?


Remember Bart, U cant just "sign up" U have to pass a "mentor personality interview", good luck with that! LOL ... only about 50% pass!


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## nicoj36 (Dec 14, 2014)

Yup, this business was never about "hourly" pay or average. It's about miles/distance driven.


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## TeleSki (Dec 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> $.57 is pretty standard, but even if he was somehow at only $.30/mile (this includes gas, u cant get any lower), he would still be losing money. The rate is $1/mile in his market, which means $.50/mile, if typically 50% paid. Plus, it sounds like the $8 was pre safe rider & uber 20%, so now ur down to $5/hr, b4 any expenses. I applaude him for recognizing the deferred costs, that most people turn a blind eye to, and just treat anything above gas$ as profit. Nobody can net any real $ under $1.40-$1.50/mile, that simple. Wake up!


My last car (Honda Element), I had 10 years/200000 miles. I figured my cost was about $0.27 per mile.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

nicoj36 said:


> Yup, this business was never about "hourly" pay or average. It's about miles/distance driven.


Uh, yeah. 12 hours behind the wheel with one minimum net $2.40 fare might cause one to examine the hourly quotient as well.

There are several measures that drivers should run to assess the validity of what they are doing, to see if it's worth it.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Uh, yeah. 12 hours behind the wheel with one minimum net $2.40 fare might cause one to examine the hourly quotient as well.
> 
> There are several measures that drivers should run to assess the validity of what they are doing, to see if it's worth it.


Huh? That didn't happen to you? You were making big money?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Huh? That didn't happen to you? You were making big money?


No. Just sayin. I generally measure the total miles to the dollar. If it drops below a buck a mile total I go home because it's a waste of time. I ran into this problem several times with Uber and it was the primary reason I had to quit Ubering. Another metric I'm fond of is $ per hour. If I'm running less than $18 an hour over a 4 hour measure I also go home as it's a waste of time. This happens on weekdays from time to time. I got better stuff to do than sit on the street waiting for pings.

If I'm at or over $18 an hour I know I'll have a $200+ gross day on a 12 hour shift, which meets my minimum expectations. This will NOT meet my expectations for a Fri or Sat however. I expect it to be higher still to justify staying out with the drunks.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> No. Just sayin. I generally measure the total miles to the dollar. If it drops below a buck a mile total I go home because it's a waste of time. I ran into this problem several times with Uber and it was the primary reason I had to quit Ubering. Another metric I'm fond of is $ per hour. If I'm running less than $18 an hour over a 4 hour measure I also go home as it's a waste of time. This happens on weekdays from time to time. I got better stuff to do than sit on the street waiting for pings.
> 
> If I'm at or over $18 an hour I know I'll have a $200+ gross day on a 12 hour shift, which meets my minimum expectations. This will NOT meet my expectations for a Fri or Sat however. I expect it to be higher still to justify staying out with the drunks.


Right, one dollar per mile including dead miles was always my minimum measure also


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## Scr74 (Feb 26, 2015)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Yea, you are actually losing $, in one of the highest rate markets left in the country.
> You have to count all miles driven from the time you leave home, and then take that x $.57, thats ur true cost to obtain ur little post uber cut take home. So if you run 100 miles in a night, your working for free break even point is gross fares of $80. If you gross $120, you net only $27. If that takes 5 hrs = $5/hr. Uber is a loser for drivers now almost anywhere in the country.
> Again, you are in one of the best markets in the country. In the $.75/mile cities (Detroit), drivers lose $ from the minute they leave home. Only the unemployed desperados are still doing it. They are just selling & eating their car one piece at a time (at a 50% discount) and rationalizing it as an "hourly wage earned" Very sad :-(


It's interesting how most people on here view the money end of this business. First, .57 a mile is a standard deduction, you have the option to write off more if it costs you more. You just need to keep receipts for fuel and repairs, tires, etc. So there is no loss in deduction. Secondly, deductions are not income. No money in, no money to deduct, no money lost or earned unless you qualify for low income tax credit. Money in, money spent on business expenses, no tax owed on that money. That's how it works. I find it interesting that most guys on here are calculating there income into an hourly rate. If you are doing this then you are an employee and should just go get a job. Your income should be calculated per minute worked. Working is driving. You can do other things in your down time that you can't do at a job getting paid hourly. If you are at Mc Donalds for $8 per hour then you'll be in a uniform with a boss on your ass for 8 hours. All this talk of they are screwing us is employee talk. If you are your own business and a true independent contractor you just stop giving your time to a client that isn't paying you what you want to be paid. One of the valuable benefits of being a driver is the tax deduction opportunities on a vehicle you already were going to own anyway, pay insurance on, buy tires, etc. All you independent contractors need to get a good CPA to help you understand how to minimize your taxable income. It's the biggest secret of the wealthy.


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## uber_sea (Jan 9, 2015)

Scr74 said:


> It's interesting how most people on here view the money end of this business. First, .57 a mile is a standard deduction, you have the option to write off more if it costs you more. You just need to keep receipts for fuel and repairs, tires, etc. So there is no loss in deduction. Secondly, deductions are not income. No money in, no money to deduct, no money lost or earned unless you qualify for low income tax credit. Money in, money spent on business expenses, no tax owed on that money. That's how it works. I find it interesting that most guys on here are calculating there income into an hourly rate. If you are doing this then you are an employee and should just go get a job. Your income should be calculated per minute worked. Working is driving. You can do other things in your down time that you can't do at a job getting paid hourly. If you are at Mc Donalds for $8 per hour then you'll be in a uniform with a boss on your ass for 8 hours. All this talk of they are screwing us is employee talk. If you are your own business and a true independent contractor you just stop giving your time to a client that isn't paying you what you want to be paid. One of the valuable benefits of being a driver is the tax deduction opportunities on a vehicle you already were going to own anyway, pay insurance on, buy tires, etc. All you independent contractors need to get a good CPA to help you understand how to minimize your taxable income. It's the biggest secret of the wealthy.


i guess the greatest benefit of driving for uber is that at the end of the year you can claim a net loss of $20,000 (35k miles driven) so you can minimize your taxable income.

Or you can write off just enough so that you qualify for maximum earned income credit. Lmao.


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## victor34 (Feb 26, 2015)

************ said:


> So I've only been driving one week ... I have 45 trips ... And I'm based out of Grand Rapids, Mi ... Anyways on Friday and Today I'm averaging 8 dollars an hour BEFORE gas insurance and depreciation is taken into account ... That's much less than minimum wage ... I wanted to see what driving for uber would be like, but if things continue this way I will quit ... When I started I was obsessed with having a good rating which I do at 4.9 ... But what's the point of having a good rating if I make less than someone at McDonald's ? Lol


I still don't understand why people are still driving for Uber....after the depreciation of your car you are not even making $8/hour, ...some drivers are soooo dummy and drive hundreds of dead miles and they still think that they are making money....I did Uber for a month and do not even turn the app on with these rates...


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## BayArea Lyft Driver (Feb 26, 2015)

I found some good spots where I am depending on what day, and time. When it's busy I get pinged immediately, and have to wait a max of 3 minutes after finishing the ride to get pinged again, (for 4 hours straight), most of it is during Primetime. So Lyft would be a good way to go!


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## victor34 (Feb 26, 2015)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Nope, u only get $160 before any expenses, assuming u actually qualified all the hoops. $208-$8SRF= $200x.8= $160, then minus gas, dep. @ all the expenses, chop u down to $10-12/hr :-( Bart, even you know that this is only a "fare booking guarantee" & not an hourly wage guarantee & uber still takes $1 SFR + 20%, the driver never gets anywhere near $26/hr, or $208! It just sickens me when an Uber driver says "I am making" $20 an hour, when in reality they're just too dumb to realize that they are actually losing money!


I am new here and I had done Uber for a month, with the recent rate cut and airport flat rate cancellation everybody is losing money plus they are working their ass off for hours. I am sure some people here are being paid by Uber to promote their business...to attract more and more dummies!!!! Uber has a very rapid driver turnover, and %50 of their drivers quit within 1-3 months....this business has become a legalized Ponzi Scheme ... you don't have to be Einstein to understand if Uber drivers are making money... most of the drivers are either desperate or stupid...there is no way to make money with Uber!!! unless you drive 12 hours a day at a busy location for $10/hour....We are in America and Uber is discouraging the customers not to tip, which service business in America runs without tip?????? This is ridiculous....


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## Danz Haagen (Feb 11, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Yes it does. In fact, it exists in Uber's most lucrative market. New York City is $2.15 per mile for UberX.


lol, with NYC traffic, 1 NYC mile becomes like 30 miles in Philadelphia.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Danz Haagen said:


> lol, with NYC traffic, 1 NYC mile becomes like 30 miles in Philadelphia.


Yeah, but you have to have commercial insurance and all kinds of extra licenses and shit still, can't make money


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## Danz Haagen (Feb 11, 2015)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Yeah, but you have to have commercial insurance and all kinds of extra licenses and shit still, can't make money


Yeah exactly. I guess you can cover some miles in Brooklyn, or Queens. But I guess all the passengers with cash are in Manhattan. But in Manhattan any time of day I have seen traffics where old grannies with canes move faster than the traffic.


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## Danz Haagen (Feb 11, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> I easily run a 10% tip rate of my gross fare. Some days it's 20%. Some days slightly less than 10%. But I'm comfortable with saying it's a 10% average of the gross fare. Dramatically much better than the JACK SHIT cheap ass pax thru Uber.


Calling Uber pax as cheap is a complement. In Phladelphia even public transport charges more than Uber. Plus you have to wait on a bus stop, and the ride one way is $2.50 for a bus, plus if you want transfer $1.50, and public does not deliver you to exactly where you want, and yet, public transport makes more money, than YOU. With uber, the pax can take $5 ride anywhere the hell they want, with luxury of the carriage being delivered to doorsteps.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Danz Haagen said:


> Calling Uber pax as cheap is a complement. In Phladelphia even public transport charges more than Uber. Plus you have to wait on a bus stop, and the ride one way is $2.50 for a bus, plus if you want transfer $1.50, and public does not deliver you to exactly where you want, and yet, public transport makes more money, than YOU. With uber, the pax can take $5 ride anywhere the hell they want, with luxury of the carriage being delivered to doorsteps.


It didn't take more than a 1/2 a day doing net $2.40 to me fares to figure out that $7.20 an hour gross before expenses wasn't going to butter my bread. **** those tightasses. They can walk for all I care.


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