# $.20 WHEELCHAIR fees deducted from every TRIP



## puber (Aug 31, 2014)

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/2fxmft

It's coming to your town too


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## Elmoooy (Sep 3, 2014)

I sure hope not - I transported a guy with wheelchair other day, I don't mind the extra work, he was extremely nice. But having to pay for wheelchair fee is nuts.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

puber said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/2fxmft
> 
> It's coming to your town too


No! That charge is specific to Seattle. The Seattle TNC ordinance mandates it to provide wheelchair accessible transportation, which was being provided by cab companies at their own expense before the TNCs.

The $0.20 charge is paid by the rider. It does show up in the fare total v at the end of the ride, just like the SRF.
So the Minimum Fare as far as a driver is concerned is $3.00


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## puber (Aug 31, 2014)

ci1cabby said:


> No! That charge is specific to Seattle. The Seattle TNC ordinance mandates it to provide wheelchair accessible transportation, which was being provided by cab companies at their own expense before the TNCs.
> 
> The $0.20 charge is paid by the rider. It does show up in the fare total v at the end of the ride, just like the SRF.
> So the Minimum Fare as far as a driver is concerned is $3.00
> ...


My point is that total fare increases
but drivers get none of that money. 
It makes uber cut more than 40% on min fares


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## drivingmisscrazy (Aug 12, 2014)

.20 to deal with a wheelchair hassle? Loading/unloading it. Waiting for pax to get in and out of the car etc...

What if you drive a car that can't store a chair in the trunk or inside?

Uber just gets better and better.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

The minimum fare is illusory from a drivers POV. And so is the Total Fare at the end of a ride.

In Seattle it says $4.00 Min. Fare.
For a PAX it's actually $4.20
$4.00 + $0.20 = $4.20
For a Drivers it's actually $2.40
$4 - $1 SRF = $3
$3 x 0.80 = $2.40

You can rack your brains about what % is Uber taking from any given fare total.

But what really matters is how much are you going to be left with after deducting your operational expenses and accounting for future expenses, such as maintenance.

On a side note, the standard IRS deduction rate of $0.56/mile is good for the drivers as they can write off a fair amount of their actual earnings and won't pay taxes on those earnings. And I don't think you have to account for vehicle replacement out of your current earnings, just set aside enough for a decent down payment. Then the car payments can come out of your operational expenses at that time.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

drivingmisscrazy said:


> .20 to deal with a wheelchair hassle? Loading/unloading it. Waiting for pax to get in and out of the car etc...
> 
> What if you drive a car that can't store a chair in the trunk or inside?
> 
> Uber just gets better and better.


This is not for Ride-sharing drivers to provide the wheelchair accessible service. It's for city to pay for this service by other paratransit vendors.


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## drivingmisscrazy (Aug 12, 2014)

Ok so we don't get jack extra to transport wheelchair people but Uber does.

I've asked this before and ask it again now: How would you know a pax is in a wheelchair when you get a ping? And if you show up and see them in a chair and you can't store it do you just cancel? Kind of shitty I know but Uber is not giving us the info in advance.


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## Elmoooy (Sep 3, 2014)

Well I had that kind of issue one morning, an pax pinged me, (wrong address by the way just to get an driver) and I drove all way to Mt. Pleasant in a terrible rain, come to find out hes in wheelchair. I was concerned if I hadn't been driving my jeep his wheels wouldn't have fit. I wonder suppose, I came up on a passenger who has more heavier wheelchair or even a scooter that can not fit, do we cancel? It just puts the driver in awkward position and also could open up to lawsuits.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

drivingmisscrazy said:


> Ok so we don't get jack extra to transport wheelchair people but Uber does.
> 
> I've asked this before and ask it again now: How would you know a pax is in a wheelchair when you get a ping? And if you show up and see them in a chair and you can't store it do you just cancel? Kind of shitty I know but Uber is not giving us the info in advance.


Uber doesn't get this $0.20, the city is Seattle gets it. I don't think you drive in Seattle. This is for the city to pay v for Paratransit, meaning wheelchair accessible vans.

Most wheelchairs fold, the wheels come off them, and they fit in the trunks of even small size cars. If a driver can't make a go of it, he/she can cancel the ride.


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## Orlando_Driver (Jul 14, 2014)

Orlando Yellow cab has wheelchair vans with ramp . You load them up and strap in the wheelchair


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Chi I have never had to remove the wheels off a chair. IS this video how you you have found they work most of the time?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Orlando_Driver said:


> Orlando Yellow cab has wheelchair vans with ramp . You load them up and strap in the wheelchair


Yup same here in Chicago. I'm SF 1/3 of the accessible taxi fleet is sitting idle because the drivers have left for TNCs. This $0.20 surcharge was a proactive approach by Seattle to pay for accessible transportation because they saw it coming.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

I am sure Uber is happy to pay it (or pass along the cost to the consumer) as it means they won't be responsible for putting any accessible vehicle on the road. What I am waiting for is which state is not going to let them off the hook by allowing them to pay for someone else to do it rather require them to put a certain percentage of Accessible vehicle on the road themselves.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

With most wheelchairs you don't even have to snap off the wheels. You just fold em, and they fit just snugly in the trunk, IF you orient/position them correctly. You just snap off the foot rests. I can't remember the last time I had to take the wheels off, but it's easy to do. The pax will give all the instructions you need to get it done.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> With most wheelchairs you don't even have to snap off the wheels. You just fold em, and they fit just snugly in the trunk, IF you orient/position them correctly. You just snap off the foot rests. I can't remember the last time I had to take the wheels off, but it's easy to do. The pax will give all the instructions you need to get it done.


Thanks, yea I have always had a Lincoln town car trunk to put them in and those are so big you could probably get them in unfolded!!


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> I am sure Uber is happy to pay it (or pass along the cost to the consumer) as it means they won't be responsible for putting any accessible vehicle on the road. What I am waiting for is which state is not going to let them off the hook by allowing them to pay for someone else to do it rather require them to put a certain percentage of Accessible vehicle on the road themselves.


I don't know about states requiring it, but cities certainly will go back and have a look at this. And I think SF prolly be the first one...SFMTA is having a hard look at the impact of TNCs...even though Mayor Lee is a booster.


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## Mikeydz (Aug 20, 2014)

As cabbie posted, the city gets the fee. As far as getting a pax needing a wheelchair accessible ride, Uber is rolling out UberAccess. I'm guessing any city that puts out a reg requiring equal access for the disabled (like Houston, for example) will get this. Doesn't mean as an UberX driver, you wouldn't get a ping from a disabled person, but that would be the service they would use.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

And a friendly note to Uber.

Make this happen in every market voluntarily, or it will be shoved down your throat! The disabled are ONE segment of the populace that you don't wanna piss off! They will demonstrate by rolling in their wheelchairs and flinging themselves into a pile in front of your offices (that is if they can find your secret little offices)! Now that won't exactly make for good publicity, will it Nairi Hourdajian?


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Mikeydz said:


> Uber is rolling out UberAccess. I'm guessing any city that puts out a reg requiring equal access for the disabled (like Houston, for example) will get this.


But Mike, Uber Access is not accessible vehicles . As far as I could tell it is cursory driver training on interacting with the handicapped. Nice name to make it seem like Uber is doing something but until they sink $20K into a modified vehicle to carry a wheelchair they are not providing accessible services. That is what they are trying to avoid.


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## drivingmisscrazy (Aug 12, 2014)

So there is no official policy from Uber on wheelchair riders? And any penalty for cancelling their rides?

I see a HUGE ADA lawsuit coming Ubers way, if there isnt one already.


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## Mikeydz (Aug 20, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> But Mike, Uber Access is not accessible vehicles . As far as I could tell it is cursory driver training on interacting with the handicapped. Nice name to make it seem like Uber is doing something but until they sink $20K into a modified vehicle to carry a wheelchair they are not providing accessible services. That is what they are trying to avoid.


True. I think as UberAssist is set up right now, it's more for show than anything else. If you go to pick up someone with a relatively mild disability, UberAccess (or any UberVariant for that matter) should be able to handle it. But if you show up and Stephen Hawking is waiting for a pick up, it would make for an interesting discussion on physics, but being equipped to give him a ride would be out of the question.

Right now, unless Uber does something with no commission, or subsidies to offset the cost of equipping a subset of drivers to be able to handle any disabled passenger that might submit a request, it's gonna be hard for any individual driver to justify the cost of using a vehicle equipped for such a service.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2014)

Mikeydz said:


> True. I think as UberAssist is set up right now, it's more for show than anything else. If you go to pick up someone with a relatively mild disability, UberAccess (or any UberVariant for that matter) should be able to handle it. But if you show up and Stephen Hawking is waiting for a pick up, it would make for an interesting discussion on physics, but being equipped to give him a ride would be out of the question.
> 
> Right now, unless Uber does something with no commission, or subsidies to offset the cost of equipping a subset of drivers to be able to handle any disabled passenger that might submit a request, it's gonna be hard for any individual driver to justify the cost of using a vehicle equipped for such a service.


Umm, there would be like a paradox about what type of vehicle should be used. On one side Uber forbids using any type of minivan for UberX. And as far as I know, wheelchair lifting equipped vehicles are essentially minivans and full size vans. So if a driver provided that service it sounds like he would only be allowed to get pings from disabled passengers, no regular UberX trips. As opposed to drivers that currently offer UberFamily, who are allowed and frequently take regular UberX pings. They just put the carseat in the trunk.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

I don't believe the ADA requires any individual driver to transport a wheelchair passenger. My understanding is that the Taxi companies have been forced to provide SOME access to wheelchair passengers through the use of SOME handicapped accessible vehicles. The numbers of those special vehicles are limited and they are a small minority of the Taxi fleet.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Former Yellow Driver said:


> I don't believe the ADA requires any individual driver to transport a wheelchair passenger. My understanding is that the Taxi companies have been forced to provide SOME access to wheelchair passengers through the use of SOME handicapped accessible vehicles. The numbers of those special vehicles are limited and they are a small minority of the Taxi fleet.


Thats correct FYD in major cities it is something like 2% of the fleet needs to be accessible vehicles and on the roads at all times or face penalties. Cities could mandate that because they regulated taxis and said in exchange for keeping new entrants out of the market and keeping rates stable you will put these types of vehicles into service to service this un-profitable demographic of our citizens. However in California Limos that were regulated by the state never put these restrictions on limo companies. Uber is more closely regulated like a limo company but they are pricing themselves and undercutting the taxi's. This puts them in a particular situation where they are trying to be a low cost provider to all, just not the un profitable demographic of wheelchair users. Limos never really had to worry about it because they were priced so high no one would use them for daily transportation and if someone was in a wheel chair the could hire private van service at a lower cost that a limo but still more expensive than a taxi.

If Uber Priced themselves higher than a taxi they would not be targeted with being a transportation solution for all. They would just be for the "select few" who could afford it. So be interesting to see how it all plays out.


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

DCUber said:


> On one side Uber forbids using any type of minivan for UberX.


It may vary by market, but there are definitely minivans on X here. XL prohibits minivans.


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

The folded dimension's of a standard heavy duty manual wheel chair are. Width=29cms (11.5"), Height=75cms (29.5"), Length=81cms (32"). I have found that Unit disassembly is not a problem as to the quick release standard 24" wheels as stated above, and the leg rests, etc. I would suggest for anybody that has not done it take a look online there are plenty of instructional videos.

When Uber has the UberAssist training sessions do they have a wheel chair there, to practice with?

One suggestion is for Uber to partner with private van service or medi-car type service, although that type of service could not be the on demand type business model. Prearrangement's would have to be made by the local Uber business office with the para-transit service provider.

*Driver awareness:* One thing that must be taken in consideration is the liability of a Uber driver while assisting a person with a handicap or disability. If somebody falls and gets injured this could get into liability mess. Please remember in many cases people with disabilities, or the elderly may be on prescription medicine or have balance or other issues.

In order to provide excellent service, the driver *MUST BE WILLING* to provide that service.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber sued for allegedly refusing rides to the blind and putting a dog in the trunk*

*http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-to-the-blind-and-putting-a-dog-in-the-trunk/*


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> Thats correct FYD in major cities it is something like 2% of the fleet needs to be accessible vehicles and on the roads at all times or face penalties. Cities could mandate that because they regulated taxis and said in exchange for keeping new entrants out of the market and keeping rates stable you will put these types of vehicles into service to service this un-profitable demographic of our citizens. However in California Limos that were regulated by the state never put these restrictions on limo companies. Uber is more closely regulated like a limo company but they are pricing themselves and undercutting the taxi's. This puts them in a particular situation where they are trying to be a low cost provider to all, just not the un profitable demographic of wheelchair users. Limos never really had to worry about it because they were priced so high no one would use them for daily transportation and if someone was in a wheel chair the could hire private van service at a lower cost that a limo but still more expensive than a taxi.
> 
> If Uber Priced themselves higher than a taxi they would not be targeted with being a transportation solution for all. They would just be for the "select few" who could afford it. So be interesting to see how it all plays out.


In Sydney 10% or roughly 650 cabs are mandated to be WATs (Wheelchair Accessible Taxis).

In return the taxi base gets the license to operate for a peppercorn lease instead of $28,000 p/a (approx), the disabled riders have their trips subsidised 50% on each trip, the driver can also operate on the able-bodied network and the vehicles can be operated for up to 12 years as opposed to 6.5 yrs for a usual sedan Taxi.

All these incentives has seen a larger amount of WATs vehicles out on the streets then mandated, with many of those drivers having regular school run contracts for disadvantaged/disabled kids as well. Those Cabbies are some of the best paid out there.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

mp775 said:


> It may vary by market, but there are definitely minivans on X here. XL prohibits minivans.


XL doesn't prohibit minivans in the Miami market. As long as you can seat 6 passengers (with seat belts) and the driver you're XL.


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