# Destination is a half fix.



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

I like the destination feature, but it needs a tweek. Unlike the SideCar system, UBER requires the drivers to accept the job BEFORE they can see the destination. I need to see the destination beforehand. With the UBER app I believe I have to start the trip in order to access the destination info.

Because I drive scheduled clients in addition to UBER, I'm often forced to log-out of UBER 1 to 1.5 hours before my scheduled job. Very inefficient.

Instead, if I knew where UBER clients were going, I could remain logged-in longer. That UBER client may well be going to a destination which is on my way. If the UBER client is calling for a short trip, then I might be able to take that as well-and still get to my scheduled job.

Yes, I could accept the Uber trip, then call the customer for destination info, but that's not a good solution. That customer may get pissed and email the black hole with a complaint. Don't want that.

I realize UBER is probably not interested in making this software change to benefit commercial drivers like me with scheduled clients, so does anyone have a work-around?


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

None other than calling the rider and asking. I signed up primarily to drive during my commute, and it was always a risk that a rider would be going out of my way. Being able to see the destination was really nice while it lasted, and it allowed me to keep the app on longer; without being able to see that information I log off when there's a high likelihood of going in the wrong direction.


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## Farlance (Jul 29, 2014)

stuber said:


> I like the destination feature, but it needs a tweek. Unlike the SideCar system, UBER requires the drivers to accept the job BEFORE they can see the destination. I need to see the destination beforehand. With the UBER app I believe I have to start the trip in order to access the destination info.
> 
> Because I drive scheduled clients in addition to UBER, I'm often forced to log-out of UBER 1 to 1.5 hours before my scheduled job. Very inefficient.
> 
> ...


The reason we made this change is because we noticed a massive upsurge in the number of drivers declining rides that weren't profitable enough for them. Cherry-picking isn't awesome.


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## Doodle (Jul 17, 2014)

Uber doesn't care about what you want and does not want you to cherry pick rides.


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## Doodle (Jul 17, 2014)

Farlance said:


> The reason we made this change is because we noticed a massive upsurge in the number of drivers declining rides that weren't profitable enough for them. Cherry-picking isn't awesome.


Pay cut isn't awesome either. Let's face it that why you are seeing the upsurge in cherry picking. I don't disagree with why uber made the change from ubers perspective but just saying...


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## Pacdog (Sep 1, 2014)

Farlance said:


> The reason we made this change is because we noticed a massive upsurge in the number of drivers declining rides that weren't profitable enough for them. Cherry-picking isn't awesome.


Did you also see a impact to the riders involved? Was this "Cherry picking" effecting the rider user base that much? I mean if a rider has to wait a couple more mins for a pickup does that really effect their experience? Seems if you look out for the drivers then the rest will sort out.


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## EricUberTampa (Sep 2, 2014)

Im finding that Uber is withholding entered destinations until after driver has accepted and not until the "arrived" button is activated. This is by design.


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

Farlance said:


> The reason we made this change is because we noticed a massive upsurge in the number of drivers declining rides that weren't profitable enough for them. Cherry-picking isn't awesome.


If there's no way to match a rider with the *driver's* origin and destination then it is not ridesharing. If the functionality exists to pair multiple riders (UberPool), then it should be able to pair a rider and a driver.

I originally signed up for Uber to be logged on during my commute, but with the new low rates in Boston and high probability of going out of my way I'm giving that up. I've been signed up with NuRide for years and never had any good matches; now there are four, so I might give that a shot for actual ridesharing. With Uber, I'll be focusing on picking up evening rides after I get home and on Saturday nights instead. That's not ridesharing; that's a *********.


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## Farlance (Jul 29, 2014)

Pacdog said:


> Did you also see a impact to the riders involved? Was this "Cherry picking" effecting the rider user base that much? I mean if a rider has to wait a couple more mins for a pickup does that really effect their experience? Seems if you look out for the drivers then the rest will sort out.


Yes. We had a large number of tickets coming in where riders were complaining of being cancelled on/declined as many as 15 times before giving up.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

I think UBER should adjust their viewpoint. It's not so much "cherry picking" as it is my desire to be as efficient as possible. When I log-off due to lack of information for fear of conflict with scheduled jobs, well that's just as detrimental to UBER's coverage as drivers cherry picking.

A further point to this is that UBER should recognize that we live in a real-time marketplace. If no drivers want a particular trip at a particular time, then the value(price) of that job should rise. Think MicroSurge. If job requests could surge on an individual basis, then everyone benefits. If a customer wants to go somewhere specific, at a specific time, and no driver wants that assigned at the pre-set pricing, then shouldn't the price go up until some driver does want to take it.


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## Farlance (Jul 29, 2014)

mp775 said:


> If there's no way to match a rider with the *driver's* origin and destination then it is not ridesharing. If the functionality exists to pair multiple riders (UberPool), then it should be able to pair a rider and a driver.
> 
> I originally signed up for Uber to be logged on during my commute, but with the new low rates in Boston and high probability of going out of my way I'm giving that up. I've been signed up with NuRide for years and never had any good matches; now there are four, so I might give that a shot for actual ridesharing. With Uber, I'll be focusing on picking up evening rides after I get home and on Saturday nights instead. That's not ridesharing; that's a *********.


What with me being of Romak descent, can we keep the gypsy comments out of it, please?


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## BOSsMAn (Aug 15, 2014)

Agree it sucks to not know if your last ride will take 5 minutes or two hours.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Farlance points out that drivers cancel trips that are not "profitable" for them. Well there's something to consider. I'm in this for profitable results.

When I schedule with private clients, we negotiate a price for a service at a particular time and place. I only have limited time. I have to make the most of it.

Does UBER see this as anything else?


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## SupaJ (Aug 12, 2014)

Farlance said:


> What with me being of Romak descent, can we keep the gypsy comments out of it, please?


That pretty much means that uber wants drivers to accept every single ping/rider and take that customer anywhere he directs the driver - that makes a bigger argument towards driver being more of an employee than 'independent' contractor as well as the company (uber) being a transportation company involved in providing illegal hails (through phone).
Farlance I understand you don't make decisions, just wanted to know your opinion.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Knowing destinations is crucial to me. I will eventually move to the app that gives me that. Just like I reject offers from trip brokers who sell jobs too cheap, then ask me to fulfill them.


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

Farlance said:


> What with me being of Romak descent, can we keep the gypsy comments out of it, please?


Sorry, I can't help it; I'm part Leutonian

You should talk to your superiors about tolerance as well


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

Uber needs to realize that they have created the cherry picking / cancellation problem by making the rates too low. The destination information being available to those who knew how to use it wasn't the problem. It was used sparingly for convenience purposes until the rates made that information a matter of profit or loss for the driver.


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## kalo (Jun 28, 2014)

Farlance said:


> The reason we made this change is because we noticed a massive upsurge in the number of drivers declining rides that weren't profitable enough for them. Cherry-picking isn't awesome.


Un-F***ing-believable. This says it all. Drivers don't NEED to make a profit. You (edit: "drivers") are low life scum. Get out there and do what we tell you! Crack, snap, crack! Do it! Do it slaves!!!


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

kalo said:


> Un-F***ing-believable. This says it all. Drivers don't NEED to make a profit. You are low life scum. Get out there and do what we tell you! Crack, snap, crack! Do it! Do it slaves!!!


Wow...that's what you got from his comment? Sad.


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

kalo said:


> Un-F***ing-believable. This says it all. Drivers don't NEED to make a profit. You are low life scum. Get out there and do what we tell you! Crack, snap, crack! Do it! Do it slaves!!!


What is so unbelievable about that statement. Seems like pretty much common sense and what most of us assumed.


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## kalo (Jun 28, 2014)

LookyLou said:


> What is so unbelievable about that statement. Seems like pretty much common sense and what most of us assumed.


It's unbelievable that Uber does everything it can to take advantage of it's bottom of the pyramid scheme drivers. That is what is unbelievable.


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

kalo said:


> It's unbelievable that Uber does everything it can to take advantage of it's bottom of the pyramid scheme drivers. That is what is unbelievable.


But we already know that.


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## kalo (Jun 28, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> Wow...that's what you got from his comment? Sad.


Yes, I got "Drives don't NEED to make a profit"... What do you get from it?


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

The other silly thing is the way they keep acceptance rates. Uber gives an incentive to drivers to accept the trip and then cancel it, since that does not hurt the acceptance rate. What would be best for the customer is if the driver could decline a fare as soon as he knows he does not want that fare, so that the ping can go to the next driver. But, there is no way to decline a fare without having it time out. And, the timing out hurts your acceptance rate.


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## kalo (Jun 28, 2014)

Oc_DriverX said:


> The other silly thing is the way they keep acceptance rates. Uber gives an incentive to drivers to accept the trip and then cancel it, since that does not hurt the acceptance rate. What would be best for the customer is if the driver could decline a fare as soon as he knows he does not want that fare, so that the ping can go to the next driver. But, there is no way to decline a fare without having it time out. And, the timing out hurts your acceptance rate.


Wow.. that would sort of be like ridesharing.. an efficient system... what a novel idea!


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

LookyLou said:


> What is so unbelievable about that statement. Seems like pretty much common sense and what most of us assumed.


Yea...common sense....good luck running a business with that common sense.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

kalo said:


> Yes, I got "Drives don't NEED to make a profit"... What do you get from it?


Exactly what he said. Drivers were trying to game the system and were generating complaints. So they shut off the feature you used to generate those complaints.

No where in that statement did he say drivers don't need to make a profit. You read that into it.


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## kalo (Jun 28, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> Exactly what he said. Drivers were trying to game the system and were generating complaints. So they shut off the feature you used to generate those complaints.
> 
> No where in that statement did he say drivers don't need to make a profit. You read that into it.


My post was mostly sarcasm. Uber continually takes action to limit drivers ability to make a decent profit. I'm sure it will run it to further legal problems, and I hope someone files the Form SS-8 to get this pyramid scheme examined with a magnifying glass.


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> Exactly what he said. Drivers were trying to game the system and were generating complaints. So they shut off the feature you used to generate those complaints.
> 
> No where in that statement did he say drivers don't need to make a profit. You read that into it.


He did say "drivers declining rides that weren't profitable enough for them." As independent contractors, we are in it to make a profit and choosing our trips accordingly should be allowed.


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## cybertec69 (Jul 23, 2014)

stuber said:


> I like the destination feature, but it needs a tweek. Unlike the SideCar system, UBER requires the drivers to accept the job BEFORE they can see the destination. I need to see the destination beforehand. With the UBER app I believe I have to start the trip in order to access the destination info.
> 
> Because I drive scheduled clients in addition to UBER, I'm often forced to log-out of UBER 1 to 1.5 hours before my scheduled job. Very inefficient.
> 
> ...


 I accept, and if the destination is too far, I then cancel, very easy to do.


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

Do you kick the rider out of the car? The issue here is that the destination is now hidden until you start the trip.


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## SupaJ (Aug 12, 2014)

I think uber came up with a new wonderful "fix" now. 
Last night and this morning the surge areas on drivers' app weren't showing the multiplier, i.e. just red area with no 1.5 x or 2.0x or 1.25x
I think uber staff does really read these forums


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## Tommyo (Aug 18, 2014)

your thinking agrees with mine....I need to log off in advance of the longest trip that may randomly occur on the next signal....this causes me to waste time in transition if I need to breakaway to pick up my kids at school or whatever.


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

SupaJ said:


> I think uber came up with a new wonderful "fix" now.
> Last night and this morning the surge areas on drivers' app weren't showing the multiplier, i.e. just red area with no 1.5 x or 2.0x or 1.25x
> I think uber staff does really read these forums


I think that might be a new "pre-surge" level between Orange and Surge (possibly to make drivers chase a surge away before it happens). https://uberpeople.net/threads/new-game-guess-the-surge.3031/#post-30713


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

Farlance said:


> Yes. We had a large number of tickets coming in where riders were complaining of being cancelled on/declined as many as 15 times before giving up.


Get ready for a new wave of complaints (I hear these from my repeat passengers):
- Driver is angry
- Driver is rude
- Driver complains about my short ride
- Driver doesn't speak English
- Driver is not willing to wait, make a mid trip stop
- And yes, still lots of cancellations especially when there are no drivers near by
- Uber used to be great but now it resembles a cab experience.

No mater how Uber spins it

Happy Drivers = Happy Customers

Low price = good
A price that's too low = bad for everybody, including Uber (even if they don't realize this yet)

You can not force happiness on drivers and riders no matter what changes you do to the app.


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## SupaJ (Aug 12, 2014)

Same thing here last night and now.
I don't think it's "pre surge" because riders app showed exactly how much the surge was, 1.25x in that case. But the driver app didnt show the number, just that it was surging. Seems like it would be just for drivers so drivers would go there or go online whatever the surge is. (Since some drivers don't want to drive unless it's 2x or more)


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## Pacdog (Sep 1, 2014)

Farlance said:


> Yes. We had a large number of tickets coming in where riders were complaining of being cancelled on/declined as many as 15 times before giving up.


I sure hope you and others who work at Uber HQ are listening to the drivers here in this forum. Why would any contractor take a job for less then min wage? If they did they would not be a contractor for long. Why do you think Uber drivers would want to do that? Your not making sense. If a driver is loosing money or lets say not even making minimum wage then why do it? Oh and your Craigslist posts? Here is what is in your post. 
"Good Money Our partners typically make $50k per year, and some make as much as $100k+ per year. Get checks deposited into your bank account weekly."
I have not read one post from a driver in this forum that backs up that statement. Is there any drivers making $100k+ a year? How about $50k year after expenses? If a driver works 80 hours a week all year and makes $50k then he or she is making about $12/hr before any expenses are factored in. The maximum allowed hours a week for Commercial drivers (CDL) is 70. Sorry for the long post folks. I'm just trying to crunch the numbers & the more I try the worst it looks for the Drivers...


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

A point of clarification, I think. The issue I raised is: wanting to see the rider DESTINATION before accepting the trip. Maybe I'm misinformed, but I think the app blocks that customer inputted information from my view until I accept the job, drive to the customer, and start the trip. I wasn't aware that the app ever operated any other way. 

So the only option for learning the destination prior to starting the trip is to call the customer. And since I don't want to take that step, then, all I can do is stay logged-out.

I don't think accept/start/read the destination/cancel is a good practice. That would probably hurt my rating in some way. No? 

Also, try to keep it constructive. Is there an acceptable work-around? It seems the answer is no.


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## SupaJ (Aug 12, 2014)

stuber said:


> A point of clarification, I think. The issue I raised is: wanting to see the rider DESTINATION before accepting the trip. Maybe I'm misinformed, but I think the app blocks that customer inputted information from my view until I accept the job, drive to the customer, and start the trip. I wasn't aware that the app ever operated any other way.
> 
> So the only option for learning the destination prior to starting the trip is to call the customer. And since I don't want to take that step, then, all I can do is stay logged-out.
> 
> ...


If there's a work-around I would never post it here  not making that mistake again, uber staff definitely reads drivers' posts on this site and reddit


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

stuber said:


> A point of clarification, I think. The issue I raised is: wanting to see the rider DESTINATION before accepting the trip. Maybe I'm misinformed, but I think the app blocks that customer inputted information from my view until I accept the job, drive to the customer, and start the trip. I wasn't aware that the app ever operated any other way.


For a brief period, you could go to the Waybill after accepting the trip and see destination if the rider had entered it, but now it says "As Directed..." until you start the trip.


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## SupaJ (Aug 12, 2014)

mp775 said:


> For a brief period, you could go to the Waybill after accepting the trip and see destination if the rider had entered it, but now it says "As Directed..." until you start the trip.


Not providing destination might actually be illegal:

The CPUC issues permits and certificates
authorizing charter-party carriers to conduct
passenger transportation services. Charter-pa
rty carriers are required to operate on a
prearranged basis. (§ 5360.5. and G.O. 157-D, Part 3.01.) Carriers are required by
§5381.5 and G.O. 157-D, Part 3.01 to posses a
waybill for each transportation service
containing the following information:
1.Name of carrier and TCP number.
2.Vehicle license plate number.
3.Driver's name.
4.Name and address of person reques
ting or arranging the charter.
5.Time and date when charter arranged.
6.Whether the transportation was arr
anged by telephone or written contract.
7.Number of persons
in the charter group.
8.Name of at least one passenger in the trav
eling party, or identifying information of
the traveling party's affiliation.
*9.Points of origination and destination.*


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## mp775 (Jun 26, 2014)

The destination is provided in the Waybill once the trip is started.


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## SupaJ (Aug 12, 2014)

mp775 said:


> The destination is provided in the Waybill once the trip is started.


not on mine :/
but even if it did after trip started I would still think it goes against the rule of "pre-arranged" trip: you need to know the pick up and destination right after accepting the job


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Actually, SupaH, I want to know BEFORE accepting the trip-just like in real world of car service. The SideCar app works exactly this way, I think.

The other smart competitors looking to beat UBER will create apps that are driver-centric. The drivers will gravitate towards the best system. 

In my case, I don't care if a smaller app competitor has fewer customers. I want the jobs I take to be efficient, and profitable. I leave the volume work with small margins for other drivers.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Sorry, SupaJ. Autocorrected.


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## Chip Dawg (Jul 27, 2014)

I see a lawsuit coming. A driver accepts a ping and picks up the pax. Driver starts trip and see destination is in a seedy part of town. You can't dump the trip because pax can rate you. Driver gets robbed or worse upon reaching destination. I don't wish this on anybody but this scenario can happen.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

We have it from the horse's mouth!


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

....and the other end of the horse too.

Clearly, there's no vision. This is a fundamental problem with the system and there's no recognition of it.


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## UBERXTRA (Jun 29, 2014)

Farlance said:


> Yes. We had a large number of tickets coming in where riders were complaining of being cancelled on/declined as many as 15 times before giving up.


How about a minimum charge of $10 per ride, that's not expensive. It's a reasonable amount for someone to go out of their way to pick someone up and take them 2 miles.

Drivers would then have an incentive to drive 5 miles to do a 2 mile trip. Now there is no incentive. If I see a pickup time farther than 10 minutes, I wouldn't take the trip.

Uber needs to change their thinking. Instead of removing all the capabilities, they need to examine the behavior behind trip cancellations. I's simple, the trip is not profitable.

Also if they added in a tip function, similar to the Uber taxi, it would probably make everyone happy. When I travel on business, I occasionally use Uberx. I recently had a $70 trip in Houston. My company allows me to tip up to 20% with their credit card. I would have gladly tipped my driver that amount. As it is, I can only be reimbursed for cash tips up to $5, so I tipped her that amount.

I quit driving. After examining the amount I made after data charge, 20% Uber fee, elimination of the $1.90 trip fee, my gas and auto expenses, I realized that I was barely covering expenses. A tip of 10% on fares for the trip would actually be all the incentive I need to start driving again.

I enjoyed the part time job, interaction with passengers and actually discovering places near me that I would not have know about if it weren't for Uber. But I couldn't justify driving for free.

Uber has such great potential, it's unfortunate that they are treating the drivers so poorly.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

SupaJ said:


> not on mine :/
> but even if it did after trip started I would still think it goes against the rule of "pre-arranged" trip: you need to know the pick up and destination right after accepting the job


I made a point of checking this weekend. Even after starting a trip, the destination did not appear on the waybill.


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## SupaJ (Aug 12, 2014)

Oc_DriverX said:


> I made a point of checking this weekend. Even after starting a trip, the destination did not appear on the waybill.


I know, same here, destination never shows.
Very interesting in terms of legal aspect of this fix


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## Uber Driver 007 (Jun 17, 2014)

SupaJ said:


> I know, same here, destination never shows.
> Very interesting in terms of legal aspect of this fix


Isn't it ironic we drive UberX and are debating the 'legalities' of certain aspects of the Uber app (ie: no destination shown)?


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## SupaJ (Aug 12, 2014)

Uber Driver 007 said:


> Isn't it ironic we drive UberX and are debating the 'legalities' of certain aspects of the Uber app (ie: no destination shown)?


Well, that's because if we get pulled over and asked for waybill, the fine and all other costs will be on us


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## Uber Driver 007 (Jun 17, 2014)

SupaJ said:


> Well, that's because if we get pulled over and asked for waybill, the fine and all other costs will be on us


I don't think so. Uber has been pretty up front about 'covering any tickets and penalties that result from the use of the Uber app."


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## SupaJ (Aug 12, 2014)

Uber Driver 007 said:


> I don't think so. Uber has been pretty up front about 'covering any tickets and penalties that result from the use of the Uber app."


Google what happens when a limo gets pulled over without/incomplete waybill


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## Uber Driver 007 (Jun 17, 2014)

SupaJ said:


> Google what happens when a limo gets pulled over without/incomplete waybill


This is a ridiculous discussion. Why don't you Google what happens when a private car 'operating as a taxi' gets pulled over? You're missing the point. The whole town is flooded and you're complaining about the water in your basement. In other words, drivers who get pulled over will have bigger issues than a destination on a Waybill. LoL


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

Uber Driver 007 said:


> This is a ridiculous discussion. Why don't you Google what happens when a private car 'operating as a taxi' gets pulled over? You're missing the point. The whole town is flooded and you're complaining about the water in your basement. In other words, drivers who get pulled over will have bigger issues than a destination on a Waybill. LoL


I think you are missing the point. If Uber was forced to put the destination information back into the waybill (assuming it was entered), that would actually help drivers. And, it might put some pressure on Uber to at least halt the fare cuts, since cherry picking was not a big issue before the 8/21 and 9/1 (LA/OC dates) fare cuts.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Hey, I learned something. Thank you. I hadn't thought about that waybill issue. That's actually an important point. You can't
technically roll without one. Gawd, UBER needs an entire department devoted to keeping track of pending or potential lawsuits.


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