# Another Fake Service Dog



## elelegido

Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!

I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.

- "This _is_ a service dog"
- "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
- "Huh?"
- "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
- "To sit on my lap?"
- "What other tasks?"
- "To say hello"
(((wtf??)))
- "That is not a genuine service dog"

Aaaannnd Ride Denied.

Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.

The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.

Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


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## EcoboostMKS

Disgusting when people pass their pets off as service dogs. Completely selfish and it hurts the reputation of legitimate service dogs and people that actually need these dogs to live their lives. 

You should report this rider to uber. This rider's account should be deactivated for this at the very least.

And good job to you for the way you handled this situation. Well done.


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## Horsebm

FYI ! If the passenger e-mails and complains to Uber about you not accepting her ride request due to a service dog issue, you will probably be deactivated. 
You are not allowed to ask any questions pertaining to the functions of a service animal and it's handler.


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## elelegido

EcoboostMKS said:


> Disgusting when people pass their pets off as service dogs. Completely selfish and it hurts the reputation of legitimate service dogs and people that actually need these dogs to live their lives.
> 
> You should report this rider to uber. This rider's account should be deactivated for this at the very least.
> 
> And good job to you for the way you handled this situation. Well done.


It was Lyft - I reported her to them and asked them to tell her that abuse of the ADA regs is not tolerated. I'm not holding my breath though.

It was a Lyft Line and the first pax was already in the car. I asked for and got his phone number from him and permission for Lyft to phone him in case the Millenial decides to submit a false complaint or escalate. All bases covered.


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## elelegido

Horsebm said:


> FYI ! If the passenger e-mails and complains to Uber about you not accepting her ride request due to a service dog issue, you will probably be deactivated.
> You are not allowed to ask any questions pertaining to the functions of a service animal and it's handler.


This is precisely why I post about fake service dogs. I imagine that many drivers such as yourself aren't familiar with the ADA provisions regarding the two questions we are allowed to ask. There are only two:

- Is this a service animal which has been trained to assist a person with a disability?
- What tasks has the animal been trained to perform?

I chose to ask the second question in the above instance.

In order to be deactivated, I would have had to have refused to give a ride to a person with a service dog. The dog presented at my car was not a service dog, so no offence occured.

For more information, see http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

GENERAL RULES
Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?

A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.


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## big A

If you see a dog with a passenger and you don't want dogs in your vehicle don't ask any questions just cancel shut apps off drive away slowly and if you didn't see the dog and you approach the passenger and you notice it just tell the passenger that you check light engine just came on and you need to have it taken care of immediately cancel no charge no hassles no complaint


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## dcnewber

Another FYI, not all service dogs are "trained" to help with physical disabilities. I knew a man with epilepsy whose Chihuahua was an alert dog and would warn him of seizures and a woman with some mutt that helled calm her during debilitating panic attacks. The fact that the rider didn't disclose that it was a medical alert/aid dog is a little weird, but she isn't required to inform you of her medical issues. Not saying you were incorrect in this instance, but I'd rather have a lap dog in my car than one of the huge hairy Labradors...


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## EcoboostMKS

Horsebm said:


> You are not allowed to ask any questions pertaining to the functions of a service animal and it's handler.


Completely wrong.

According to the ADA, a dog must individually trained to do work or perform tasks to a disabled person to elevate the dog's status from pet to service animal. These specific tasks are what give the handler the right to bring their dogs where pets can't go. You have every right to ask what these specific tasks are as long as you don't specifically ask what the person's disability is. This should be a very easy and straightforward question for someone with a legitimate service dog can answer.

Keep in mind a "service dog" is not the same as an "emotional support dog" that many people try to push off as service dogs. Emotional support dogs do not get the same rights as legitimate service dogs.


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## elelegido

dcnewber said:


> Another FYI, not all service dogs are "trained" to help with physical disabilities.


Another incorrect FYI. Don't get confused; the ADA rules are crystal clear on this:

"Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities"

Therefore, a dog is classed as a service animal if and only if if has been trained to perform specific tasks. And we as service providers are allowed to ask what that individual task or tasks is/are.

A genuine service dog handler receives preferential treatment in the form of being allowed to be accompanied by their dog everywhere. In exchange for that preferential treatment, they must answer when asked by a service provider what their dog is specifically trained to do. If they refuse to answer, or give nonsense answers such as the young lady above (it's trained to sit on my lap), them we are entitled to refuse service. It really is as simple as that.

As EcoboostMKS says, a genuine service dog handler will be able to say what their dog is trained for, such as reminding the person to take medication, or alerting in the case of seizures, or guiding a visually impaired person.


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## UberMensch2015

There are differences between Emotional Support Animals and Service Dogs. Uber says we have to take both. I know a seeing eye dog or a dog to help a physically handicapped person when I see one. I take those all the time and do it gladly. I can sense a fake service dog a mile away and drive on by. I also will never take an ESA as these are BS and everyone knows it. If you can't function for 10 minutes without your stupid little yap dog then don't go outside your house. 

The other day I refused an ESA, older lady with two scrawny little yap yap dogs. Uber called me and I said the animals were not identified as ESA and the rider didn't claim they were so I rejected the ride. No issue, Uber said thank you and that was that.

People who abuse the Service Dog regs are real scum. I had a friend who took her dog everywhere and lied all the time about it being an ESA. I finally stopped going anywhere with her and told her what she was doing was an insult to people who really need those animals. It really boils my blood.


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## EcoboostMKS

UberMensch2015 said:


> There are differences between Emotional Support Animals and Service Dogs. Uber says we have to take both.


You sure about that? Where did you read or hear that because that pretty much contradicts what the law says. You're not confusing emotional support dog with psychiatric service dog, right? Emotional support dogs typically do not get any special privileges that someone's pet wouldn't get.

A person's psychiatric issues have to be so severe that they're unable to function on a minimal level without a specific task performed by the dog to be considered a psychiatric service dog. A dog that's there to help comfort someone deal with social anxiety is not a service dog.


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## elelegido

UberMensch2015 said:


> There are differences between Emotional Support Animals and Service Dogs. Uber says we have to take both.


I haven't seen any publication from Uber that says we have to take emotional support dogs.

Where this gets tricky is that in some states, state law (not the ADA) defines emotional support dogs as service animals. And Uber's policy is that drivers must obey all local laws. Except the ones that Uber doesn't agree with, such as those of France, Germany, Spain, South Korea, Florida... I'm probably missing a few here... but that's another story.


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## UberMensch2015

I agree there is a difference, I was just clarifying. and yes, Uber does say we have to take ESA's, at least that's what Uber told me when they called. I just said they didn't identify as an ESA and that was that.


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## EcoboostMKS

elelegido said:


> I haven't seen any publication from Uber that says we have to take emotional support dogs.
> 
> Where this gets tricky is that in some states, state law (not the ADA) defines emotional support dogs as service animals. And Uber's policy is that drivers must obey all local laws. Except the ones that Uber doesn't agree with, such as those of France, Germany, Spain, South Korea, Florida... I'm probably missing a few here... but that's another story.


Which states define ESA's as service dogs? I'm not an expert on the subject, so i could be wrong, but this is the first time I'm hearing about this.


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## EcoboostMKS

UberMensch2015 said:


> I agree there is a difference, I was just clarifying. and yes, Uber does say we have to take ESA's, at least that's what Uber told me when they called. I just said they didn't identify as an ESA and that was that.


I think the person you spoke to is just misinformed. Most of those uber service reps are just college kids that don't know much anything. The only dogs I'll put in my car are legitimate service animals.

And I'm a dog person. I have two myself. I just have a real problem with people that pass their pets off as service animals to get around the law.


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## UberMensch2015

EcoboostMKS said:


> I think the person you spoke to is just misinformed. Most of those uber service reps are just college kids that don't know much anything. The only dogs I'll put in my car are legitimate service animals.
> 
> And I'm a dog person. I have two myself. I just have a real problem with people that pass their pets off as service animals to get around the law.


You're right, they probably don't know the difference either.


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## elelegido

EcoboostMKS said:


> Which states define ESA's as service dogs? I'm not an expert on the subject, so i could be wrong, but this is the first time I'm hearing about this.


I read about state law differing in some cases from a few sources when I investigated this; can't remember where now. In any event I only checked California specifically and found out that state law here does not recognize therapy dogs as service animals. Which is great - any pax who claims at the car window, "it's an emotional support dog" or "it's a therapy dog" automatically disqualifies themselves and their animal from getting a ride. In those cases, you don't even have to ask what tasks the dog is trained to do.


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## elelegido

EcoboostMKS said:


> A dog that's there to help comfort someone deal with social anxiety is not a service dog.


Exactly. No training is required for a dog to just be there with the person, so it doesn't qualify.


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## RobGM84

as a dog owner i do kind of wish there was an option to flag myself as accepting animals and for PAX to select this option. I always have a seat cover under the trunk area of my car and could put it on very quickly if i had to take a pet. As someone with two large dogs in the middle of the city it is often hard to get around when i don't have a car (our transit does not allow dogs).


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## Uber-Doober

elelegido said:


> I haven't seen any publication from Uber that says we have to take emotional support dogs.
> 
> Where this gets tricky is that in some states, state law (not the ADA) defines emotional support dogs as service animals. And Uber's policy is that drivers must obey all local laws. Except the ones that Uber doesn't agree with, such as those of France, Germany, Spain, South Korea, Florida... I'm probably missing a few here... but that's another story.


^^^
That Uber statement is in direct conflict with their gun carry posture. 
Here in Nevada, carrying a firearm concealed is permitted in every county and city, but Uber says no. 
We also have open carry here which is permitted everywhere except in Federal buildings or where they have the no-carry symbol on the door.


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## sidewazzz

While you're correct you are also VERY WRONG, you're able to ask what task the dog does. You as an individual are unable to JUDGE weather or not what the person tells you is true. Therefore if you're question is answered that's it... You can't do anything but hope the person says it's not a service dog. 

The only thing you can do with a pax that has a dog is IMMEDIATELY ask them if it's their Companion dog. Any service dog owner with half a brain will tell you no, it's a service dog. Any Joe will say yes because they don't know the difference.


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## XUberMike

RobGM84 said:


> as a dog owner i do kind of wish there was an option to flag myself as accepting animals and for PAX to select this option. I always have a seat cover under the trunk area of my car and could put it on very quickly if i had to take a pet. As someone with two large dogs in the middle of the city it is often hard to get around when i don't have a car (our transit does not allow dogs).


Great idea: Uber Dog.

Passengers that have dogs and/or don't mind dog hair/dander on their clothes can choose uber dog

Those that don't don't pick uber dog


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## EcoboostMKS

sidewazzz said:


> While you're correct you are also VERY WRONG, you're able to ask what task the dog does. You as an individual are unable to JUDGE weather or not what the person tells you is true. Therefore if you're question is answered that's it... You can't do anything but hope the person says it's not a service dog.
> 
> The only thing you can do with a pax that has a dog is IMMEDIATELY ask them if it's their Companion dog. Any service dog owner with half a brain will tell you no, it's a service dog. Any Joe will say yes because they don't know the difference.


If someone tells you their dog is a service dog and says their service is to alert for seizures or for PTSD, you are correct, it's not your place to judge if the person is telling the truth or not. You have to take their word for it. I know if someone told me that, that would be plenty for me to allow the dog in.

If the person says it's for their anxiety or comfort then it's your place as a driver to make the decision to allow the dog in or not. You don't have to in this case. This is why you ask and you're we'll within your rights to do so.

And this is exactly why I have such a problem with people lying and using the emotional support dog excuse to bring fido along. You're cheating the system and ruining it for people that legitimately need these animals to get through day to day life.


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## elelegido

sidewazzz said:


> The only thing you can do with a pax that has a dog is IMMEDIATELY ask them if it's their Companion dog.


No. Again, there are two and only two questions you are allowed to ask. They are:

(1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and
(2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?



sidewazzz said:


> While you're correct you are also VERY WRONG, you're able to ask what task the dog does. You as an individual are unable to JUDGE weather or not what the person tells you is true. Therefore if you're question is answered that's it... You can't do anything but hope the person says it's not a service dog.


Correct, service providers are not allowed to assess or pass judgment when the dog handler does quote specific tasks the dog has been trained for, such as "It reminds me to take medicine" or "It alerts people when I have a seizure" etc. You as a service provider have no way of knowing if that is true or not, so you must take the animal.

However, when the person refuses to answer the question, or say which specific tasks the animal performs, or if they quote tasks for which training is not required such as "It keeps me company", "It makes me feel better" etc, then the handler may legitimately be denied service.


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## EcoboostMKS

big A said:


> If you see a dog with a passenger and you don't want dogs in your vehicle don't ask any questions just cancel shut apps off drive away slowly and if you didn't see the dog and you approach the passenger and you notice it just tell the passenger that you check light engine just came on and you need to have it taken care of immediately cancel no charge no hassles no complaint


What a great way to discriminate against disabled people like their day to day life isn't already difficult enough.

Maybe you should do the same with minorities and the elderly too.

Pathetic.


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## elelegido

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> That Uber statement is in direct conflict with their gun carry posture.
> Here in Nevada, carrying a firearm concealed is permitted in every county and city, but Uber says no.
> We also have open carry here which is permitted everywhere except in Federal buildings or where they have the no-carry symbol on the door.


Yep, Uber has a lot of recommendations which can safely be ignored - don't accept tips, open doors, offer free snacks/water/Spotify, don't carry a weapon etc.


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## elelegido

RobGM84 said:


> as a dog owner i do kind of wish there was an option to flag myself as accepting animals and for PAX to select this option. I always have a seat cover under the trunk area of my car and could put it on very quickly if i had to take a pet. As someone with two large dogs in the middle of the city it is often hard to get around when i don't have a car (our transit does not allow dogs).


I don't think there'd be enough demand for it. In around 4,000 rides I have only taken one genuine service dog, denied rides to three fake service dog owners and declined ride requests from pet owners, who did not try to claim service animal status, around five times.


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## sidewazzz

I'm not saying you can't ask those questions. What im saying is you can't be judge. If they say their duty it to wipe their ass then that's it you can't do anything.

Anxiety is a huge deal.


elelegido said:


> No. Again, there are two and only two questions you are allowed to ask. They are:
> 
> (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and
> (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
> 
> Correct, service providers are not allowed to assess or pass judgment when the dog handler does quote specific tasks the dog has been trained for, such as "It reminds me to take medicine" or "It alerts people when I have a seizure" etc. You as a service provider have no way of knowing if that is true or not, so you must take the animal.
> 
> However, when the person refuses to answer the question, or say which specific tasks the animal performs, or if they quote tasks for which training is not required such as "It keeps me company", "It makes me feel better" etc, then the handler may legitimately be denied service.


Dude you're not getting it.... If you ask the two questions, you're allowed to ask about their dog and the pax answers them with some bogus answer like, "oh they are for my anxiety"... You by law are not judge and can't DENY them. You may think you are because it's your car but if you do, you are breaking the law.

If you ask them the question I posted and they say yes, then you can deny them of a ride.


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## EcoboostMKS

sidewazzz said:


> I'm not saying you can't ask those questions. What im saying is you can't be judge. If they say their duty it to wipe their ass then that's it you can't do anything.
> 
> Anxiety is a huge deal.
> 
> Dude you're not getting it.... If you ask the two questions, you're allowed to ask about their dog and the pax answers them with some bogus answer like, "oh they are for my anxiety"... You by law are not judge and can't DENY them. You may think you are because it's your car but if you do, you are breaking the law.
> 
> If you ask them the question I posted and they say yes, then you can deny them of a ride.


Anxiety is a big deal. It's just not a recognized disability by the ADA where a service dog is required unless related to PTSD that will cause anxiety attacks. Anxiety alone is not a valid reason and you'd be well within your rights to ask that passenger what specific tasks that dog was trained to do to aid in coping with the passengers anxiety. Should be easy to answer for a legitimate service dog owner. No answer, no ride.


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## big A

The bottom line is this if you take a service dog in your vehicle and he s**** or urinates in your car uber will take forever to pay back that money you going to lose a day's pay especially if it's at night and there's no place to have it cleaned you have to do it yourself and I'm not cleaning no one's dog s*** or piss when especially I don't own a dog so that American with Disabilities Act can go you know where and I'm not being cruel about it its just the facts and not to mention the hair they leave behind on your car seats and the way uber drivers are getting beat up now I'm putting my own guard dog in the front seat so that means I can I have no other dogs in my car


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## sidewazzz

EcoboostMKS said:


> Anxiety is a big deal. It's just not a recognized disability by the ADA where a service dog is required unless related to PTSD that will cause anxiety attacks. Anxiety alone is not a valid reason and you'd be well within your rights to ask that passenger what specific tasks that dog was trained to do to aid in coping with the passengers anxiety. Should be easy to answer for a legitimate service dog owner. No answer, no ride.


I'm not worried about people's answers, I know anxiety is a huge deal. I actually use to train dogs up to service dog standards. I'm just informing those who feel it's OK to deny a ride based up if they feel the answer is legitimate. It's against the law and they don't realize it lol.


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## yolo25

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


Luckily, I had one male that had a very small Yorky dog. I let him slide because it was the size of a cat. The dog was very well behaved and sat on the mans lap without a hiccup. Now if someone attempted to enter my car with a large service dog. I would deny them because I'm allergic to dogs. Hehe I wins 

Uber on


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## elelegido

sidewazzz said:


> I'm just informing those who feel it's OK to deny a ride based up if they feel the answer is legitimate. It's against the law and they don't realize it LOL


The ADA regulations on service dogs are not clearly written, and evidently from all of the incorrect interpretations contributed in this thread by various people, it's tripping a lot of people up. This is unfortunate as this confusion is allowing fakers with pets to abuse the regulations.

I'll try one more time to explain it.

If the regulations stated "it is illegal to deny service to any person accompanied by a dog, where that person claims that the dog is a service animal", then you would be 100% correct - we would have to take every single dog that was claimed to be a service animal. Fortunately though, the regulations do not state anything of the kind.

What the regulations actually state is:

"Under the ADA, State and local governments, businesses, and nonprofit organizations that serve the public generally must allow service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas of the facility where the public is normally allowed to go."

So, the next question is, what's a service animal? The ADA defines a service animal as:

"Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities"

The crucial point here is that what makes a service animal is _not_ whether or not the handler claims it is a service dog, but rather whether or not the dog has actually been trained to do a specific task.

Now, consider a pax who presents with a dog, claiming it is a service animal. Regarding service animal status and your response, there are four and only four possibilities:

a) The dog has not been trained for a task and you allow the ride
b) The dog has not been trained for a task and you deny the ride
c) The dog has been trained for a task and you allow the ride
d) The dog has been trained for a task and you deny the ride

The _only_ case above in which you would be breaking the law is (d). In case (b), which is a fake service animal being passed off as genuine, you deny the ride, but because the dog has not been trained for a task, no offence is committed by you. The handler in case (b) may say that the dog is an emotional support dog, or that it is a comfort animal or, as happened to me above, that the dog just sits on its owners lap and, apparently, says hello. It does not matter at all what the owner says, if the dog has not been trained, it is not a service dog, you can deny service, no law is broken, case closed.

So, the service provider is _not_ prohibited from denying service to people who are accompanied by non-service dogs. The tricky part is knowing which dogs are genuine and which are not. Back to the example that happened to me. Did I break the law by denying the young lady a ride? And who decides whether I did or not?

The answer is that a court of law would decide. A district attorney could decide to prosecute me for denying a ride to a pax with a service animal. My defense would be simply that the dog was not a service animal, therefore no crime occurred. I would repeat in evidence what the woman said about what her dog was allegedly trained for, and the case would promptly be thrown out of court by the judge.


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## kmartinez3218

In a year I have taken one service dog. A legit dog it had its cape on saying it was one.

I covered my rear leather bench with a thick old tablecloth. But the poor dogs hair flew everywhere. Even had dog hair stuck in my headliner, it took awhile to get it all out. 

I have dogs 4 of them all large breed not one go in my cars cause I hate cleaning dog hair. So i crate them and put them in the bed of my truck and secure the crate.

Even though I loathe even my dogs in my car, I would never deny a legit service animal.


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## TakinItUpWithUber

What is the freakin big deal?? Accept the pax and dog collect your $2.80 and move on. Especially when it's one of those purse dogs. Who cares if its a service animal or not. Quote ADA regulations all day. Are these requests happening daily, weekly, monthly? Doubt it. Maybe once or twice a year. Load them in drop them off and move on to the next pax.


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## corrado

TakinItUpWithUber said:


> What is the freakin big deal?? Accept the pax and dog collect your $2.80 and move on. Especially when it's one of those purse dogs. Who cares if its a service animal or not. Quote ADA regulations all day. Are these requests happening daily, weekly, monthly? Doubt it. Maybe once or twice a year. Load them in drop them off and move on to the next pax.


Nope. You take'em. Im cancelling. Got an emergency at home. Sorry sh!theads. Have some respect for the drivers. Call and make sure its ok to have an animal in the car


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## limepro

I don't mind dogs but I do remind the pax that while I don't mind the next driver may be very allergic or afraid of dogs and they should call and ask first.


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## sidewazzz

Your still not getting it.


elelegido said:


> The ADA regulations on service dogs are not clearly written, and evidently from all of the incorrect interpretations contributed in this thread by various people, it's tripping a lot of people up. This is unfortunate as this confusion is allowing fakers with pets to abuse the regulations.
> 
> I'll try one more time to explain it.
> 
> If the regulations stated "it is illegal to deny service to any person accompanied by a dog, where that person claims that the dog is a service animal", then you would be 100% correct - we would have to take every single dog that was claimed to be a service animal. Fortunately though, the regulations do not state anything of the kind.
> 
> What the regulations actually state is:
> 
> "Under the ADA, State and local governments, businesses, and nonprofit organizations that serve the public generally must allow service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas of the facility where the public is normally allowed to go."
> 
> So, the next question is, what's a service animal? The ADA defines a service animal as:
> 
> "Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities"
> 
> The crucial point here is that what makes a service animal is _not_ whether or not the handler claims it is a service dog, but rather whether or not the dog has actually been trained to do a specific task.
> 
> Now, consider a pax who presents with a dog, claiming it is a service animal. Regarding service animal status and your response, there are four and only four possibilities:
> 
> a) The dog has not been trained for a task and you allow the ride
> b) The dog has not been trained for a task and you deny the ride
> c) The dog has been trained for a task and you allow the ride
> d) The dog has been trained for a task and you deny the ride
> 
> The _only_ case above in which you would be breaking the law is (d). In case (b), which is a fake service animal being passed off as genuine, you deny the ride, but because the dog has not been trained for a task, no offence is committed by you. The handler in case (b) may say that the dog is an emotional support dog, or that it is a comfort animal or, as happened to me above, that the dog just sits on its owners lap and, apparently, says hello. It does not matter at all what the owner says, if the dog has not been trained, it is not a service dog, you can deny service, no law is broken, case closed.
> 
> So, the service provider is _not_ prohibited from denying service to people who are accompanied by non-service dogs. The tricky part is knowing which dogs are genuine and which are not. Back to the example that happened to me. Did I break the law by denying the young lady a ride? And who decides whether I did or not?
> 
> The answer is that a court of law would decide. A district attorney could decide to prosecute me for denying a ride to a pax with a service animal. My defense would be simply that the dog was not a service animal, therefore no crime occurred. I would repeat in evidence what the woman said about what her dog was allegedly trained for, and the case would promptly be thrown out of court by the judge.


Okay.... youre clearly going to interpret the law the way you want... good luck with that.

Coming from a dog trainer who use to train dogs to be service animals and people how to keep their service dog on point. Don't listen to ^ guy.

Once a pax states it's a service dog youre really pretty SOL. You can ask the two questions you're legally allowed to ask all day but no matter what answer you get unless a pax says it's not a service dog your SOL. So if you deny a pax based on what you feel are good answers or not. That pax can contact uber and say you denied their service dog and get deactivated as we have seen here before.

This is why I say before anything happens, before your pax says "this is my service dog" you ask if it's a companion dog. If they say yes cancel the ride and your off the hook.


----------



## elelegido

TakinItUpWithUber said:


> What is the freakin big deal?? Accept the pax and dog collect your $2.80 and move on. Especially when it's one of those purse dogs. Who cares if its a service animal or not. Quote ADA regulations all day. Are these requests happening daily, weekly, monthly? Doubt it. Maybe once or twice a year. Load them in drop them off and move on to the next pax.


If that works for you then great! The point of this thread is to let drivers know that they do have the option of attempting to filter out the fakes if they want to.


----------



## elelegido

sidewazzz said:


> Your still not getting it.


No; I can prove that what I am saying is true - fake service dogs CAN be denied entry to premises by service providers and be protected by law when they do. There are many publicized legal cases where this has happened. _Baugher v. City of Ellensburgh, WA, 2007 WL 858627 (E.D. Wash. 2007_ is one of them.

In this case, a woman took a dog into a convenience store. She claimed it was a service animal, the clerk decided it was not, and the woman was removed from the store by police. She later had the clerk prosecuted under the ADA but the court found the clerk not guilty because the woman could produce no evidence in court that the dog had been trained in tasks to help her.

Cases like this are tried federal court cases which are not open to interpretation by you, me, or anyone - the fact is that ADA claims were falsely made by people, and the courts have upheld the rights of service providers to deny service to non-service animals.

However, there have also been cases where ADA claims have been made in court against providers who denied service and they have indeed been convicted, because the animal was proved in court to be a service animal. Which is why it is important to be sure when denying service. But, denying service to fake dogs without being convicted even when prosecuted in court is certainly a legal right that we service providers possess, as proved above.


----------



## USArmy31B30

TAKE NOTE UBER!!!

PET FRIENDLY RIDE OPTION + $10 Per Pet Per Trip... If they had an accident $50 clean up fee!!! COUNT ME IN!!!

I HAVE WELL BEHAVED pets and I don't mind paying $20 to transport my pets


----------



## sidewazzz

elelegido said:


> No; I can prove that what I am saying is true - fake service dogs CAN be denied entry to premises by service providers and be protected by law when they do. There are many publicized legal cases where this has happened. _Baugher v. City of Ellensburgh, WA, 2007 WL 858627 (E.D. Wash. 2007_ is one of them.
> 
> In this case, a woman took a dog into a convenience store. She claimed it was a service animal, the clerk decided it was not, and the woman was removed from the store by police. She later had the clerk prosecuted under the ADA but the court found the clerk not guilty because the woman could produce no evidence in court that the dog had been trained in tasks to help her.
> 
> Cases like this are tried federal court cases which are not open to interpretation by you, me, or anyone - the fact is that ADA claims were falsely made by people, and the courts have upheld the rights of service providers to deny service to non-service animals.
> 
> However, there have also been cases where ADA claims have been made in court against providers who denied service and they have indeed been convicted, because the animal was proved in court to be a service animal. Which is why it is important to be sure when denying service. But, denying service to fake dogs without being convicted even when prosecuted in court is certainly a legal right that we service providers possess, as proved above.


You have no idea as to what led the clerk to decide it wasn't a service dog. For all we know she may have said "well it's a companion dog". Go ahead do as you feel, this isn't about what the court will decide. This is about saving your butt when it comes to Uber. Again if a pax claims they were denied a ride because they had a service dog, what makes you think they wont side with the pax and lock you out of the system? Like I said do as you please.


----------



## elelegido

sidewazzz said:


> You have no idea as to what led the clerk to decide it wasn't a service dog. For all we know she may have said "well it's a companion dog".


 No, the woman claimed it was a service dog, and furthermore that it alerted her to taking medications. The point is that service providers can decide when dealing with fake service dogs whether or not to deny service. In an earlier post you said:


> You as an individual are unable to JUDGE weather or not what the person tells you is true. Therefore if you're question is answered that's it... You can't do anything but hope the person says it's not a service dog.


However, the outcome and of the above case proves that you are not correct in this belief. The woman said it was a service dog and the clerk, rather than just accept it as you suggest because she did say it was, intead judged for himself that it was not a service dog and was later found in court to be justified. There's not much more to add to this - legal precedent proves that the advice you are giving out is incorrect.


> this isn't about what the court will decide.


 You were the one to introduce legalities into the discussion when you said:


> It's against the law and they don't realize it lol.


 and


> You by law are not judge and can't DENY them. You may think you are because it's your car but if you do, you are breaking the law.


 And since you brought up breaking the law, I clarified that denying fake service dogs does not constitute breaking the law. In this country, whether or not the law has been broken is decided by, and only by, the court system. And, again, as above, the courts say that denying service to non-service dog handlers is perfectly acceptable and in no way a breach of the law as you claim.


> This is about saving your butt when it comes to Uber. Again if a pax claims they were denied a ride because they had a service dog, what makes you think they wont side with the pax and lock you out of the system?


 I don't give any pax undeserved preferential treatment based on a risk of my being treated unfairly by Uber. I will continue to exercise my rights fully, and if Uber attempts to infringe on my rights I'll deal with it if and when it comes up. Each to his own, though I guess.


----------



## sidewazzz

elelegido said:


> No, the woman claimed it was a service dog, and furthermore that it alerted her to taking medications. The point is that service providers can use their discretion in deciding whether or not to deny service. In an earlier post you said:And:
> However, the outcome and of the above case proves that you are not correct in this belief. The clerk judged for himself that it was not a service dog, and was later found in court to be justified.
> You were the one to introduce legalities into the discussion when you said:
> and And since you brought up breaking the law, I clarified that denying fake service dogs does not constitute breaking the law.
> I don't give any pax undeserved preferential treatment based on a risk of my being treated unfairly by Uber. I will continue to exercise my rights fully, and if Uber attempts to infringe on my rights I'll deal with it if and when it comes up. Each to his own, though I guess.


Look you're trying to prove something and it's not working.

Let me break it down Barney style for you.

If you want to rely on you're two magical questions you're legally allowed to ask... go for it. Youre saying it's ok to make a decision based upon personal feelings, if the person is lieing or not.

It you deny a true service animal because you felt the answer wasn't good enough. You're going to be swimming in poo with a deactivated account. You're likely to be on the 7 o'clock news as well. And say byby to that life changing money.

If you deny a fake service dog because they didn't answer you're magical questions well enough. There is a good chance that pax contacts uber and says you denied them because they had a service dog. Uber isn't going to ask for documentation they will side with the pax just like they always do. And your account gets deactivated. Understand?

If you simply ask a pax before they say any thing if it's a "companion dog" and they answer yes (fake service dog owners don't know the difference) you deny the ride.

If they contact uber or courts and claim they were denied all you have to say is they told you it was a companion dog.

Your link to the court filing only proves fake service dog owners will go as far as taking your ass to court. What makes you think they won't just contact Uber and get you canned? Could you imagine if you actually did deny a true service dog?!?! I'm sure your advise here on the forum would quickly change.


----------



## elelegido

sidewazzz said:


> Look you're trying to prove something and it's not working.
> 
> Let me break it down Barney style for you.
> 
> If you want to rely on you're two magical questions you're legally allowed to ask... go for it. Youre saying it's ok to make a decision based upon personal feelings, if the person is lieing or not.
> 
> It you deny a true service animal because you felt the answer wasn't good enough. You're going to be swimming in poo with a deactivated account. You're likely to be on the 7 o'clock news as well. And say byby to that life changing money.
> 
> If you deny a fake service dog because they didn't answer you're magical questions well enough. There is a good chance that pax contacts uber and says you denied them because they had a service dog. Uber isn't going to ask for documentation they will side with the pax just like they always do. And your account gets deactivated. Understand?
> 
> If you simply ask a pax before they say any thing if it's a "companion dog" and they answer yes (fake service dog owners don't know the difference) you deny the ride.
> 
> If they contact uber or courts and claim they were denied all you have to say is they told you it was a companion dog.
> 
> Your link to the court filing only proves fake service dog owners will go as far as taking your ass to court. What makes you think they won't just contact Uber and get you canned? Could you imagine if you actually did deny a true service dog?!?! I'm sure your advise here on the forum would quickly change.


Let's not cloud this by trying to bring in talk of Barney, magic or feelings. All interesting topics in their own right, to be sure, but none has anything to do with what we're discussing here.

The bottom line is very simple. If you deny service to a pax who claims their dog is a service animal, when in fact it is not a service animal, you have not broken the ADA regulations. If you deny service to a pax, and their dog really is a service animal, then you have broken the ADA regulations. It's as simple as that.

Now, the point you raise is that if you deny someone who falsely claims their pet is a service animal, then that person could make a false complaint to Uber. Of course they could, just as a pax can falsely claim that a driver touched them inappropriately, or tried to extort money from them, or anything else they choose to make up. But my philosophy is that you can't live your life in fear of things like this - you man up, do what is right and deal with people who try to step on your rights if/when it happens.



> If you simply ask a pax before they say any thing if it's a "companion dog" and they answer yes (fake service dog owners don't know the difference) you deny the ride.


Once again, this question is not one of the two questions that the ADA allows you to ask. Don't know how else to put it. Not allowed. No permitido. Non. Nhet. Nein.



> Could you imagine if you actually did deny a true service dog?!?!


Yes, which is why you have to exercise common sense. The latest young lady whom I questioned about her dog told me that it had been trained to a) sit on her lap and b) say hello. I have reached the fifth decade of life without ever coming across a dog capable of saying hello, trained or not, so I immediately discredited this claim as nonsense. And no training is required for a dog to sit on a lap, so that also is not evidence that it was a service animal. I am very comfortable with my assessment of this particular animal.


----------



## RamzFanz

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


You're skating on thin ice. My sister has no disabilities but owns a lab service dog that is used to calm disabled children with its presence. It was chosen because it is very gentle and tolerates being tugged on and such and has no formal training.


----------



## RamzFanz

sidewazzz said:


> If you simply ask a pax before they say any thing if it's a "companion dog" and they answer yes (fake service dog owners don't know the difference) you deny the ride.


Not true. My sister's dog noted above IS a service dog AS a companion dog.


----------



## elelegido

RamzFanz said:


> You're skating on thin ice. My sister has no disabilities but owns a lab service dog that is used to calm disabled children with its presence. It was chosen because it is very gentle and tolerates being tugged on and such and has no formal training.





> Not true. My sister's dog noted above IS a service dog AS a companion dog.


LOL; I wondered when you'd turn up and contribute your unique view on matters.


----------



## sidewazzz

RamzFanz said:


> Not true. My sister's dog noted above IS a service dog AS a companion dog.


Your sisters dog from what you described is a companion/ therapy dog. That dog isnt even allowed in a store let alone an Uber lol.

We as drivers do not have to allow them I the car.

But thank you for proving my point even further. A simple "is that a companion dog" will make life very easy for you as a driver.


----------



## sidewazzz

RamzFanz said:


> You're skating on thin ice. My sister has no disabilities but owns a lab service dog that is used to calm disabled children with its presence. It was chosen because it is very gentle and tolerates being tugged on and such and has no formal training.


That is what is defined as a passive dog. Basically it won't bite or jump all over people. (My pitbull does this) It's not trained to do any duty.


----------



## Demon

yolo25 said:


> Luckily, I had one male that had a very small Yorky dog. I let him slide because it was the size of a cat. The dog was very well behaved and sat on the mans lap without a hiccup. Now if someone attempted to enter my car with a large service dog. I would deny them because I'm allergic to dogs. Hehe I wins
> 
> Uber on


Unless you're able to prove that your allergies are so severe they would prevent you from operating the car what you're doing is illegal.


----------



## sidewazzz

Demon said:


> Unless you're able to prove that your allergies are so severe they would prevent you from operating the car what you're doing is illegal.


From my understanding is severe allergies or fear of dogs is not good enough reason.


----------



## RamzFanz

elelegido said:


> LOL; I wondered when you'd turn up and contribute your unique view on matters.


Miss me?


----------



## RamzFanz

sidewazzz said:


> Your sisters dog from what you described is a companion/ therapy dog. That dog isnt even allowed in a store let alone an Uber lol.
> 
> We as drivers do not have to allow them I the car.
> 
> But thank you for proving my point even further. A simple "is that a companion dog" will make life very easy for you as a driver.


It has papers, it has a vest, it rides on airplanes and stays in hotels.


----------



## elelegido

RamzFanz said:


> It has papers, it has a vest, it rides on airplanes and stays in hotels.


So do I, and I'm not a service dog either.

Actually, I don't have a vest; and haven't since I was around 8 years old. But I could buy myself a vest, and that still wouldn't make me a service dog.


----------



## RamzFanz

elelegido said:


> So do I, and I'm not a service dog either.
> 
> Actually, I don't have a vest; and haven't since I was around 8 years old. But I could buy myself a vest, and that still wouldn't make me a service dog.


You should get a vest now. They are about to be in vogue again and you could be a trend setter. I have one and I love it.

I recommend this one:


----------



## stuber

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


I've never really had a problem with dogs in the car. Mostly they're fine and not much of mess. The shedders obviously suck, but that's only happened a few times. A quick wipe down, then on to the next. If someone needs a dog for "emotional support", well... I just give them a pass. Who cares?


----------



## sidewazzz

RamzFanz said:


> It has papers, it has a vest, it rides on airplanes and stays in hotels.


Yes therapy dogs have papers and usually a vest as well. Companion dogs have papers as well but its basically a doctors form.

Both my dogs fly with no problem. One is a companion dog the other is nothing but an extremely well trained dog. I've been asked to put vest on them when flying so it makes people think they are service dogs this was told to me by an airline company we us when we would travel.

I'm not saying your sisters dog isnt a service dog and honestly I don't care. But what you described is a therapy dog and we as drivers don't have to take them. Mmmmmmkay.


----------



## RamzFanz

sidewazzz said:


> Yes therapy dogs have papers and usually a vest as well. Companion dogs have papers as well but its basically a doctors form.
> 
> Both my dogs fly with no problem. One is a companion dog the other is nothing but an extremely well trained dog. I've been asked to put vest on them when flying so it makes people think they are service dogs.


What I'm learning about Uber is the self important big cities have the very worst riders with horrible attitudes. They come here and say the darndest things and their local friends are like _what are you thinking_? They always act like, _I'm from NY, Chicago, or San Fran and we always get an AUX and we do whatever the hell we want_. Locals aren't impressed. Unimpressed and disappointed would be the best description.


----------



## elelegido

stuber said:


> I've never really had a problem with dogs in the car. Mostly they're fine and not much of mess. The shedders obviously suck, but that's only happened a few times. A quick wipe down, then on to the next. If someone needs a dog for "emotional support", well... I just give them a pass. Who cares?


For me it's the principle of the thing. I don't like entitled pax in general. And I don't like it when they confidently walk over to the car carrying a rat dog - an object that common courtesy requires them to ask the driver's permission to put in a car. Or the fact that they have no intention of asking permission. Or the smug smile they put on as they say "it's a service animal", overconfident in the mistaken belief that saying only these four words is an Access All Areas pass to put whatever dog they choose in my car.

I enjoy putting these entitled people in their place and how the smug smile disappears when they're left holding the offending item curbside as I leave without them.

Now that I think about it, I did once allow a young lady to bring a rat dog into the car. She said that she'd sit on her lap and not shed (dog). She was very easy on the eye (pax) so this was a factor, but more importantly, she asked, instead of trying to fake a disability to get preferential treatment.


----------



## kevin o'keefe

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


woof!..woof!


----------



## chicagomedic

I wouldn't take any dog in MY car service animal or not. My kids have allergies and I don't really care about your dog. Bye Felicia


----------



## Oscar Levant

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


For a service dog to be a service dog it must be trained to perform a task that the owner cannot do by him or herself. 
But, I take dogs anyway, well, except for English Sheep Dogs, way too much hair


----------



## xr650r

I carry an old bedsheet in the trunk-I haul dogs.I own 3 dogs.I dont worry about trying to interpret the law.


----------



## jUst Jeff

https://adata.org/faq/how-can-i-tell-if-animal-really-service-animal-and-not-just-pet

To determine if an animal is a service animal, you may ask two questions:

1) Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability?

2) What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?

You may not ask these questions if the need for the service animal is obvious. Examples include when a dog is guiding an individual who is blind or is pulling a person's wheelchair. You also may not:


ask about the nature or extent of an individual's disability 
require proof that the animal has been certified, trained or licensed as a service animal
require the animal to wear an identifying vest or tag
ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the task or work
Under the ADA, it is the *training* that distinguishes a service animal from other animals. Some service animals are professionally trained; others are trained by their owners. However, the task that the service animal is trained to do must be directly related to the owner's disability.

Service animals in-training are not specifically addressed in the ADA. However, some state laws may afford service animals in-training the same protections as service animals that have completed their training.


----------



## jUst Jeff

Uber doesn't say anything about ESA's here is there position from the site:

"Most drivers are happy to accommodate pets, but ultimately the decision is theirs.

If you'd like to travel with your pet, we suggest calling your driver as soon as your request is confirmed to coordinate. We recommend bringing along a crate or bag to minimize any mess.

Please note: all drivers are required by law to transport registered service animals. If you experience issues using Uber with your service animal, please reach out to us by reporting an issue with your trip."


----------



## UberMeansSuper

dcnewber said:


> Another FYI, not all service dogs are "trained" to help with physical disabilities. I knew a man with epilepsy whose Chihuahua was an alert dog and would warn him of seizures and a woman with some mutt that helled calm her during debilitating panic attacks. The fact that the rider didn't disclose that it was a medical alert/aid dog is a little weird, but she isn't required to inform you of her medical issues. Not saying you were incorrect in this instance, but I'd rather have a lap dog in my car than one of the huge hairy Labradors...


That is called a service dog, yes.

The driver didn't ask "how does this dog help you with your physical disabilities?" The ADA suggests the question be as simple as, "what tasks has the dog been trained to help with or do?"

If the customer would not like to "reveal" their ailment/sickness/disability, they can answer the question, "what does the dog do?" "This dog alerts me to _x, y, _and_ z_" is not revealing a sickness, etc. "I have _p_, so this dog does _q _when _r_ happens" *is* revealing a sickness, etc.


----------



## UberMeansSuper

RobGM84 


XUberMike said:


> Great idea: Uber Dog.
> 
> Passengers that have dogs and/or don't mind dog hair/dander on their clothes can choose uber dog
> 
> Those that don't don't pick uber dog


Is UberPETS only in Dallas? We have such an option.

http://newsroom.uber.com/dallas/2015/07/dfwuberpets/


----------



## yoyodyne

UberMensch2015 said:


> Uber told me when they called


You got an actual PHONE CALL from Uber?? That's the unheard of thing in this whole situtation.


----------



## yoyodyne

RobGM84 said:


> as a dog owner i do kind of wish there was an option to flag myself as accepting animals and for PAX to select this option. I always have a seat cover under the trunk area of my car and could put it on very quickly if i had to take a pet. As someone with two large dogs in the middle of the city it is often hard to get around when i don't have a car (our transit does not allow dogs).


The other side of the coin, however, is that a passenger might not want to ride in a car that has been carrying dogs. I'd prefer to pass on it, much like I'd skip a car that smelled like cigarettes or old Taco Bell.


----------



## ORT

elelegido said:


> For me it's the principle of the thing. I don't like entitled pax in general. And I don't like it when they confidently walk over to the car carrying a rat dog - an object that common courtesy requires them to ask the driver's permission to put in a car. Or the fact that they have no intention of asking permission. Or the smug smile they put on as they say "it's a service animal", overconfident in the mistaken belief that saying only these four words is an Access All Areas pass to put whatever dog they choose in my car.
> 
> I enjoy putting these entitled people in their place and how the smug smile disappears when they're left holding the offending item curbside as I leave without them.
> 
> Now that I think about it, I did once allow a young lady to bring a rat dog into the car. She said that she'd sit on her lap and not shed (dog). She was very easy on the eye (pax) so this was a factor, but more importantly, she asked, instead of trying to fake a disability to get preferential treatment.


What's your issue with lap dogs, heck I had 2 today, no issues whatsoever. One was a French bulldog that had jetlag with seriuos nasal issues "they are known for this", and another was a mix.


----------



## gman

ORT said:


> What's your issue with lap dogs, heck I had 2 today, no issues whatsoever. One was a French bulldog that had jetlag with seriuos nasal issues "they are known for this", and another was a mix.


There's no issue really. The chances of having an issue with a person and a dog are a lot less than picking up most humans with another human. I think people are so sour on Uber they just take every opportunity they can to be dicks to PAX, as if they are actually sticking it to Uber somehow. As for me, I prefer to maintain my standards as a decent human being to people no matter how much Uber sucks sweaty balls.


----------



## TaylorHamNCheez

I just came here to say that that dog in the featured topic photo is super cute lol.

I love dogs haha!


----------



## Mayday

Like I'm going to take legal advice from an Uber forum writer? If you don't want to take an animal in your car, just say "oh my gosh, my engine is overheating. Sorry, I'm going to have to cancel the ride and go to the repair shop."


----------



## Wyreless

i found this topic very interesating. As I live in the Communist state of Maryland, I went to their site and will go by State of Maryland statutes, as they will most definitely be the decision making legal entity which would get the case. If it was to go Federal, then the book I would write "I Went Before the Supreme Court Because a Little Dog Shit In My Car", will pay for my fines and legal fees.

Here is the key thing you need to know in the State of Maryland:
(l) A blind or visually handicapped or deaf or hearing impaired or mobility impaired person accompanied by a service dog or service dog trainer accompanied by a dog that is being trained as a service dog shall display identification issued by a service dog trainer organization which trains and certifies service dogs for the disabled. This statute is located HERE

  I personally have no real desire for "Albert or FiFi" riding in my car , drooling on my interior and windows and possibly taking the big one in my back seat. Sure, the odds are not real strong that it will ever happen. But to allow some one to BS me and just have a house pet that is going along for the ride because they want "FiFi" to go, is no reason for me to have to deal with it. But, as the statute states, if they have the identifying credentials i will allow the animal to come along. I will also mention that at least twice it clearly states in the Maryland statutes that the Owner is liable for ANY damage caused by the service animal. And for me, Dog Pooh cleaning starts at $150 per poo and every dry heave is another $50 per incident..


----------



## ORT

Wyreless said:


> i found this topic very interesating. As I live in the Communist state of Maryland, I went to their site and will go by State of Maryland statutes, as they will most definitely be the decision making legal entity which would get the case. If it was to go Federal, then the book I would write "I Went Before the Supreme Court Because a Little Dog Shit In My Car", will pay for my fines and legal fees.
> 
> Here is the key thing you need to know in the State of Maryland:
> (l) A blind or visually handicapped or deaf or hearing impaired or mobility impaired person accompanied by a service dog or service dog trainer accompanied by a dog that is being trained as a service dog shall display identification issued by a service dog trainer organization which trains and certifies service dogs for the disabled. This statute is located HERE
> 
> I personally have no real desire for "Albert or FiFi" riding in my car , drooling on my interior and windows and possibly taking the big one in my back seat. Sure, the odds are not real strong that it will ever happen. But to allow some one to BS me and just have a house pet that is going along for the ride because they want "FiFi" to go, is no reason for me to have to deal with it. But, as the statute states, if they have the identifying credentials i will allow the animal to come along. I will also mention that at least twice it clearly states in the Maryland statutes that the Owner is liable for ANY damage caused by the service animal. And for me, Dog Pooh cleaning starts at $150 per poo and every dry heave is another $50 per incident..


So did you give the little guy water and mints, doggy treats, lol.


----------



## Wyreless

By the way. I wanted to see if I could find the actual State of Maryland Issued Service Dog Credentials. First thing I found when I GOOGLED MD Service Dog Credentials was page after page of so called "Service Animal" Id Cards you can order for $4.95 and up. Here is one I made for "UBER Doober" This is a PROOF you can view so sorry the words PROOF are all over it. The point is, know what your states ID looks like and use your brain, most people can tell an Ebay generated ID. Kinda like a "FAKE ID" when you went to college.


----------



## Wyreless

Last but not least, before I get called out on this, check out this little gem released by the Maryland State Attorneys Office. Keep in mind that this is a Federal Mandate so applies to all of us. While this was a pain in the arse, we are all certainly better educated on the subject. That, to me, makes it worthwhile. And I got a chuckle out of it. So....
*
C. Federal Preemption of State Identification Requirement* When there is a difference between the ADA and state law, the law granting an individual with a disability the greater level of protection prevails. 42 U.S.C. §12201(b). Because the ADA generally requires a public accommodation to allow an individual with a disability to be accompanied by a service animal, regardless of whether the individual has documentation that the animal is a service animal, a state law requiring that an individual display proof of an animal's training is preempted. See, e.g., Green v. Housing Authority of Clackamas County, 994 F. Supp. 1253, 1257 (D. Or. 1998) (Oregon statute requiring that a hearing ear dog be on an orange leash preempted by ADA). 7 Therefore, despite the provision in the White Cane Law (name of a disability statute in Maryland dealing with these issues) that requires special identification of service dogs, a facility that is a public accommodation under Title III of the ADA may not require proof that a dog has had specialized training as a service dog. Click Here for Maryland Attorney Generals Official Opinion on Service Dogs requiring ID http://www.oag.state.md.us/opinions/2001/86oag120.pdf

Gots to love the Government(s)

Whats next guys? Wanna talk about the legality of recording a police officer while he is making a traffic stop on you? If you do not know your States laws governing that, you need to. After a long battle including several people being arrested for just that, Attorney General Douglas Ganzler has made a statement that the DRIVER has the right to record a Police Officer. Not true everywhere.


----------



## elelegido

gman said:


> I think people are so sour on Uber they just take every opportunity they can to be dicks to PAX, as if they are actually sticking it to Uber somehow.


In no way was I a "dick" to the pax. I was polite throughout the process of verifying her animal with her and was also polite when I gave her my decision not to transport her or her pet.

Refusing to allow pax to take liberties with us, and being professional while refusing them, is not "being a dick" to pax, any more than it is when we refuse to take drunks carrying beer cups, or the incapacitated who are vomiting on the ground as we approach, or five-in-an-UberX "high rollers" who are too cheap to pay for the correct size car etc etc. It's simply about exercising one's rights.


----------



## Willzuber

You guys are nuts. When you pull up and you see the dog, step on it. You don't have to put up with that crap.


----------



## gman

elelegido said:


> It's simply about exercising one's rights.


You are hiding behind this "service dog" thing just to deny someone a ride. What bad thing is going to happen if someone has a lap dog in your car? How about if it was your wife or girlfriend with the lapdog needing a ride somewhere, and along comes someone like you who is going to waste 10 minutes of their time and refuse them the ride simply because they can? Treat people like you would like to be treated, is all I can say about that.


----------



## sidewazzz

gman said:


> C'mon, the only right you are exercising is the right to be a dick. You are hiding behind this "service dog" thing just to deny someone a ride. What bad thing is going to happen if someone has a lap dog in your car? How about if it was your wife or girlfriend with the lapdog needing a ride somewhere, and along comes someone like you who is going to waste 10 minutes of their time and refuse them the ride simply because they can? Treat people like you would like to be treated, is all I can say about that.


On that note, I've had lap dogs puke, piss and shit and my truck more ti.es that I can count. Luckily they were crated but man if they werent .... id be effing pissed.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Wyreless said:


> Here is the key thing you need to know in the State of Maryland:
> (l) A blind or visually handicapped or deaf or hearing impaired or mobility impaired person accompanied by a service dog or service dog trainer accompanied by a dog that is being trained as a service dog shall display identification issued by a service dog trainer organization which trains and certifies service dogs for the disabled. This statute is located HERE


I live in maryland and never knew this
i clicked on your link but apparently its a dead link
however in my county in Maryland it says no identification is required

http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/dgs-ada/ServiceAnimals.html


----------



## gman

sidewazzz said:


> On that note, I've had lap dogs puke, piss and shit and my truck more ti.es that I can count. Luckily they were crated but man if they werent .... id be effing pissed.


Well we're not talking about crated dogs, now are we? Do you think someone is going to have a dog on their lap, in a strangers car, who constantly pukes, pisses and shits all over the place? Yeah, not so much.


----------



## sidewazzz

gman said:


> Well we're not talking about crated dogs, now are we? Do you think someone is going to have a dog on their lap, in a strangers car, who constantly pukes, pisses and shits all over the place? Yeah, not so much.


Little dogs tend to be very nervous/scared, this why you see most of them shake even if it's 90 degrees outside. Nervous/ scared dogs will do all of the above and even bite their owners when put in in unfimlar situations or places.


----------



## elelegido

I had another faker tonight; this is like waiting for a bus - nothing for ages and then two come along one after the other. This time the young lady walked over to the car carrying a beagle-sized animal; both were promptly sent her on their way after she claimed it was "just a companion dog".


----------



## elelegido

Bart McCoy said:


> I live in maryland and never knew this
> i clicked on your link but apparently its a dead link
> however in my county in Maryland it says no identification is required
> 
> http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/dgs-ada/ServiceAnimals.html


This is one of those cases where federal law trumps state law (preemption principle).


----------



## elelegido

gman said:


> You are hiding behind this "service dog" thing just to deny someone a ride.


Riiiight, because I spend my nights driving around looking for people to deny rides to, LOL.


> What bad thing is going to happen if someone has a lap dog in your car?


- Pets (not service dogs) tend to put their front paws up on the door and smear the window with dog snot as they look out the window. Cleaning the dog snot off the window creates extra, unpaid, work for me.
- If the dog sheds hair on the seats or carpet then I have to stop work and go an find a car vacuum and remove the hair. More unpaid work created for me.
- If the dog has just come out of a residence, chances are it has just urinated outside. Dogs don't wipe afterwards. I don't want dog urine where people sit.

I drive rideshare to make a profit. I avoid anything that has the potential to create unpaid work for me. For the same reason, I also try to avoid pukers, coffee carriers, food package bearers etc etc. This is a business, not a charity.

Having said that, if someone presents with a genuine service animal, or at least an animal which is obviously not a pet, then they get a ride from me. I may have extra work created for me; they have to live with a disability.


> How about if it was your wife or girlfriend with the lapdog needing a ride somewhere


I would not date anyone who tried to deceive others in order to get preferential treatment to which she was not entitled, much less marry her.


----------



## yoyodyne

gman said:


> Well we're not talking about crated dogs, now are we? Do you think someone is going to have a dog on their lap, in a strangers car, who constantly pukes, pisses and shits all over the place? Yeah, not so much.


Have you met people? I saw a Chihuahua take a shit in the cereal aisle at a grocery store last month and the owner try to walk away. I asked him what was going on in his head to think that was okay? LEAVE YOUR DOGS AT HOME! DOGS ARE NOT PEOPLE! Just because a person loves their dog doesn't mean everyone else has to.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

elelegido said:


> I asked for and got his phone number from him and permission for Lyft to phone him in case the Millenial decides to submit a false complaint or escalate. All bases covered.


?? Why? As long as you reported it to Lyft and mentioned the other pax in the car and the trip number, they have access to the contact info for that pax. (I'm not sure it's ever a good idea to ask any pax for their contact info... THAT could get you sh*t-canned by itself).


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

elelegido said:


> ...any pax who claims at the car window, "it's an emotional support dog" or "it's a therapy dog" automatically disqualifies themselves and their animal from getting a ride.


Didn't you mean: "automatically disqualifies themselves and their animal from getting a ride" in _YOUR_ car? 
I don't have a problem with [most] dogs in my car. 
(They are generally much nicer and far more respectful than the paxs.)


----------



## SafeT

I have an ADA medical allergy to dogs. Can't transport... so sorry..


----------



## San Diego Steve

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


Great job on this deplorable scam which drives me nuts. I had a customer who I rejected last week, and then he said his lap dog was a service dog. Even offered to show documentation. Do they all have documents that proves it is a device dog? If so, wonder why they are not required to show them. I let him in to avoid my rating taking a hit and uber deactivating me. Rating and uber is the downside to challenge dogs. A lot are the emotional support ones. Do you think the lap dogs are too small to perform tasks to be a service dog? Stupid law that puts us in a bad spot to decline.


----------



## San Diego Steve

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


Great job on this deplorable scam which drives me nuts. I had a customer who I rejected last week, and then he said his lap dog was a service dog. Even offered to show documentation. Do they all have documents that proves it is a device dog?


----------



## gman

elelegido said:


> I would not date anyone who tried to deceive others in order to get preferential treatment to which she was not entitled, much less marry her.


So if the woman didn't try and deceive you, but just showed up with a small dog and said it is very well trained and will just sit on her lap with no issue, then you'd be good to go?

From your prior posting it sounds like a major criteria is how hot the girl is. So a fat ugly chick with the same dog would be a no-go but a hot skinny one would be okay.

But now we're into a whole different type of discrimination.


----------



## elelegido

gman said:


> So if the woman didn't try and deceive you, but just showed up with a small dog and said it is very well trained and will just sit on her lap with no issue, then you'd be good to go?
> 
> From your prior posting it sounds like a major criteria is how hot the girl is. So a fat ugly chick with the same dog would be a no-go but a hot skinny one would be okay.
> 
> But now we're into a whole different type of discrimination.


She would have a greater chance of getting a ride than a woman who presented herself curbside trying to make false claims, whose chances are zero.

My car, my rules. Like I said, I am a business owner. All UberLyft does is present me with potential work offers in the form of job requests. I, as a business owner will pick and choose the jobs I want to take, and pass on the ones I do not want. Drivers really need to move away from the "Everyone's private driver" mentality. It's a brilliant marketing tagline, to be sure, but as far as describing the reality of doing this, it's laughable.


----------



## elelegido

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Didn't you mean: "automatically disqualifies themselves and their animal from getting a ride" in _YOUR_ car?
> I don't have a problem with [most] dogs in my car.
> (They are generally much nicer and far more respectful than the paxs.)


Yes, in my car. Each operator gets to choose their own pet policy.


----------



## sidewazzz

SafeT said:


> I have an ADA medical allergy to dogs. Can't transport... so sorry..


Your allergies or fear don't matter.


----------



## elelegido

San Diego Steve said:


> Great job on this deplorable scam which drives me nuts. I had a customer who I rejected last week, and then he said his lap dog was a service dog. Even offered to show documentation. Do they all have documents that proves it is a device dog? If so, wonder why they are not required to show them. I let him in to avoid my rating taking a hit and uber deactivating me. Rating and uber is the downside to challenge dogs. A lot are the emotional support ones. Do you think the lap dogs are too small to perform tasks to be a service dog? Stupid law that puts us in a bad spot to decline.


There are different sets of rules which apply, depending on both the type of dog (service animal, emotional support animal, therapy animal) and on the setting in which the dog handler expects access for the dog.

The ADA rules cover service dogs only and only organizations (such as businesses) which provide services to the public, i.e. libraries, restaurants, taxi cabs - anywhere a member of the public would ordinarily expect to be able to go. And the ADA rules specify that no documentation is required to be shown by disabled people at any time for their service animal, in any public place. As mentioned above, the dog has to be trained for specific tasks to help the disabled person - companion dogs, comfort dogs, therapy dogs etc are not covered by the ADA.

There are other rules for non-public places covered by other regulations. Non-public places include rented accommodation such as apartments and houses. In some cases landlords can be forced to accept therapy dogs and emotional support dogs if the dog owner gets a letter from their doctor. There is also an exception for airline travel, where therapy/emotion dogs must be accepted by the airline if the owner provides proof in the form of a doctors' letter. The airline rules are wide open to abuse though. Recently an undercover reporter from ABC managed to take not only a fake support animal on a plane, but also an "emotional support" rabbit and an "emotional support" hedgehog 

Don't take a ratings hit when you decline rides to pet owners - just don't start the trip until you've verified that it is indeed a service animal. No trip start = no rating.

Regarding what small dogs can be trained to do; I don't know. Poodles apparently are one of the most intelligent dogs breeds; never seen one doing the New York Times crossword though. I guess it also depends on temperament. I think little dogs would be too jumpy and nervous.


----------



## SafeT

sidewazzz said:


> Your allergies or fear don't matter.


So if 10 disabled people enter a room, the one with the dog gets preference for everything in the room? Absurd, my ADA is every bit as valid as anyone's else's. That's like categorizing a minority on the darkness of their skin tone. You are either a minority or you are not. I will not give up my ADA rights for someone else's ADA rights. So sorry...


----------



## sidewazzz

A lot of little dogs are trained for sents. Two pretty common small breeds we trainer here in OC WERE begals and Jack russels. 

Easy way to put it dogs with smushed faces are likely not a service dog.


----------



## elelegido

SafeT said:


> So if 10 disabled people enter a room, the one with the dog gets preference for everything in the room? Absurd, my ADA is every bit as valid as anyone's else's. That's like categorizing a minority on the darkness of their skin tone. You are either a minority or you are not. I will not give up my ADA rights for someone else's ADA rights. So sorry...


This country is getting bogged down way too much with nanny state regulation.

For example, alarmed by the relentless, seemingly unstoppable proliferation of peanuts on airplanes, citizens appealed to the government in a desperate bid for help. The government responded by passing a DoT act in 2000 which said that the DoT cannot "provide a peanut-free buffer zone or any other related peanut-restricted area, or restrict the distribution of peanuts [on planes] until 90 days after submission to Congress and the Secretary of Transportation of a peer-reviewed scientific study". So be warned if you get on a plane. The peanuts are still out there, waiting.


----------



## Wyreless

Bart McCoy said:


> I live in maryland and never knew this
> i clicked on your link but apparently its a dead link
> however in my county in Maryland it says no identification is required
> 
> http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/dgs-ada/ServiceAnimals.html


Hey Bart, thanks for letting me know that link was bad. I got that info from this site which provided that link. HERE The statute I quoted was all the way at the bottom. But if you see my later post, you'll se its really all irrelevant as the Office of the Attorney General posted a statement which basically says whatever the FEDs says goes, and the Feds did say no id needed. Here is a link to the PDF offered an opinion from a previous Attorney General of MD regarding this ID of Service Dogs In Md. Link to OAG PDF: http://www.oag.state.md.us/opinions/2001/86oag120.pdf


----------



## Wyreless

San Diego Steve said:


> Great job on this deplorable scam which drives me nuts. I had a customer who I rejected last week, and then he said his lap dog was a service dog. Even offered to show documentation. Do they all have documents that proves it is a device dog?


Google SERVICE DOG ID's and you will see what she was probably going to offer you. If you read the ADA site they state that there is not one "Official Service Dog ID" in the USA. At best they could show you papers showing that the dog was trained by an official trainer, and in reality, who really knows who is who?


----------



## elelegido

Michael - Cleveland said:


> ?? Why? As long as you reported it to Lyft and mentioned the other pax in the car and the trip number, they have access to the contact info for that pax. (I'm not sure it's ever a good idea to ask any pax for their contact info... THAT could get you sh*t-canned by itself).


Nah, as long as drivers do not do anything illegal or immoral in their vehicle, it's none of UberLyft's business.

Anyway, I got both pax' numbers because, although the friend of the account holder said he was also registered with Lyft, Lyft would not have been able to identify him solely based on this.


----------



## elelegido

Wyreless said:


> Google SERVICE DOG ID's and you will see what she was probably going to offer you. If you read the ADA site they state that there is not one "Official Service Dog ID" in the USA. At best they could show you papers showing that the dog was trained by an official trainer, and in reality, who really knows who is who?


Some of these companies charge $250 for an ID "kit" which includes a doggie vest they probably buy in from China for 20 cents a piece, a laser printed certificate and some other useless crap.

The question I was wondering is, is it morally wrong to rip off and take money from dishonest people who are only going to use the product you sell for the purpose of being dishonest... Because it looks like an enterprise that is practically pure profit. I guess you could say that some service providers would end up getting taken advantage of, but then again if they knew what to look out for they'd just politely tell the offending person to fork off, so no harm no foul.


----------



## San Diego Steve

elelegido said:


> There are different sets of rules which apply, depending on both the type of dog (service animal, emotional support animal, therapy animal) and on the setting in which the dog handler expects access for the dog.
> 
> The ADA rules cover service dogs only and only organizations (such as businesses) which provide services to the public, i.e. libraries, restaurants, taxi cabs - anywhere a member of the public would ordinarily expect to be able to go. And the ADA rules specify that no documentation is required to be shown by disabled people at any time for their service animal, in any public place. As mentioned above, the dog has to be trained for specific tasks to help the disabled person - companion dogs, comfort dogs, therapy dogs etc are not covered by the ADA.
> 
> There are other rules for non-public places covered by other regulations. Non-public places include rented accommodation such as apartments and houses. In some cases landlords can be forced to accept therapy dogs and emotional support dogs if the dog owner gets a letter from their doctor. There is also an exception for airline travel, where therapy/emotion dogs must be accepted by the airline if the owner provides proof in the form of a doctors' letter. The airline rules are wide open to abuse though. Recently an undercover reporter from ABC managed to take not only a fake support animal on a plane, but also an "emotional support" rabbit and an "emotional support" hedgehog
> 
> Don't take a ratings hit when you decline rides to pet owners - just don't start the trip until you've verified that it is indeed a service animal. No trip start = no rating.
> 
> Regarding what small dogs can be trained to do; I don't know. Poodles apparently are one of the most intelligent dogs breeds; never seen one doing the New York Times crossword though. I guess it also depends on temperament. I think little dogs would be too jumpy and nervous.


Thanks for info, I know ratings are only after you start trip. If you challenge them and take the dog, guaranteed your. Going to take a hit.


----------



## UberLaLa

First, I do take dogs within reason - lap dogs no problem. Have only taken 3 or 4. Have never needed to deny, yet. I drive Beverly Hills, Hollywood, etc.., gonna get these requests and I just decided so long as they are small I can handle whatever _pops up.
_
That said, I roll up to this apartment building in Venice Beach one night, and out comes a 30 something professional lady totting her large suitcase and fairly overweight (60 lbs) boxer dog on a leash. She is lugging the suitcase down the stairs so I go up and help her with it - I always get out and put their luggage in _my back hatch_.

_LAX?_ I ask, she says _yup_ and she is _running a bit late_. I don't see any crate for Fido so I ask genuinely out of curiosity, _They let you take him on the flight? - _She retorts, _He's a service dog. _First time I've ever had that claim, and first dog I've ever had larger than a lap dog.

As I am putting the suitcase in the back pax is trying to get Fido to _go potty _in the bit of grass by the curb. He doesn't and they jump in. Dog on the floor behind the passenger seat and her just behind me. I reach back and pet Fido on the head and tell her, _If he needs to go feel free to ask me and I'll find a nice safe place for us to pull over, we have time.
_
Five minutes into the trip I smell the distinct _aroma _of dog poo! I'm like WTF?!? *really???* I held my thoughts for the moment, but was definitely going to be annoyed if Fido pitched a loaf on the floor and was now stepping or sitting in it and tracking/smearing it all over the rest of the back. After another couple of minutes I smell it again, but this time pax says, _Oh Fido, you did not. _I'm like totally ready to stop the car and ask them both to exit pronto. Then she says, _I'm sorry he has the worst gas sometimes.
_
Dropped her at Terminal 1 and they were on their merry way. Lesson learned..._Don't let strangers in the back of my car with dogs that have gas and probably need to poop. _Wait, I can't not do that...I'm an Uber Driver with laws telling me I *must* take 'Service Animals' - The way of the late great Optimus Uber is looking more and more appealing every day. : o
_
_


----------



## San Diego Steve

D


UberLaLa said:


> First, I do take dogs within reason - lap dogs no problem. Have only taken 3 or 4. Have never needed to deny, yet. I drive Beverly Hills, Hollywood, etc.., gonna get these requests and I just decided so long as they are small I can handle whatever _pops up.
> _
> That said, I roll up to this apartment building in Venice Beach one night, and out comes a 30 something professional lady totting her large suitcase and fairly overweight (60 lbs) boxer dog on a leash. She is lugging the suitcase down the stairs so I go up and help her with it - I always get out and put their luggage in _my back hatch_.
> 
> _LAX?_ I ask, she says _yup_ and she is _running a bit late_. I don't see any crate for Fido so I ask genuinely out of curiosity, _They let you take him on the flight? - _She retorts, _He's a service dog. _First time I've ever had that claim, and first dog I've ever had larger than a lap dog.
> 
> As I am putting the suitcase in the back pax is trying to get Fido to _go potty _in the bit of grass by the curb. He doesn't and they jump in. Dog on the floor behind the passenger seat and her just behind me. I reach back and pet Fido on the head and tell her, _If he needs to go feel free to ask me and I'll find a nice safe place for us to pull over, we have time.
> _
> Five minutes into the trip I smell the distinct _aroma _of dog poo! I'm like WTF?!? *really???* I held my thoughts for the moment, but was definitely going to be annoyed if Fido pitched a loaf on the floor and was now stepping or sitting in it and tracking/smearing it all over the rest of the back. After another couple of minutes I smell it again, but this time pax says, _Oh Fido, you did not. _I'm like totally ready to stop the car and ask them both to exit pronto. Then she says, _I'm sorry he has the worst gas sometimes.
> _
> Dropped her at Terminal 1 and they were on their merry way. Lesson learned..._Don't let strangers in the back of my car with dogs that have gas and probably need to poop. _Wait, I can't not do that...I'm an Uber Driver with laws telling me I *must* take 'Service Animals' - The way of the late great Optimus Uber is looking more and more appealing every day. : o


Did she tip you for all that bs?


----------



## dirtnaprightnow

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


One hundred percent correct and properly handled.

I train dogs and cant tell you how many calls I get from Fluffy's mommy wanting me to "certify" uher little dog. I tell them sure, and then explain the training process.

I have never had any issues but most Fluffy dog owners dont want to pay the $12,000 it costs and a year to train a real service dog.

Many states impose civil or criminal charges for mis representing a service animal.

Ive only had one owner bring me a small dog (beagle) to train to alert her to take meds for diabetes. It to 3 days to get it done cause Snoopy had been detecting her issue for years but they dodnt pick up on his queues.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

Horsebm said:


> FYI ! If the passenger e-mails and complains to Uber about you not accepting her ride request due to a service dog issue, you will probably be deactivated.
> You are not allowed to ask any questions pertaining to the functions of a service animal and it's handler.


You can now.


----------



## UberLaLa

San Diego Steve said:


> D
> 
> Did she tip you for all that bs?


This _tip_ you speak of...I have seen this word here a few times...what means it? lol


----------



## elelegido

UberLaLa said:


> First, I do take dogs within reason - lap dogs no problem. Have only taken 3 or 4. Have never needed to deny, yet. I drive Beverly Hills, Hollywood, etc.., gonna get these requests and I just decided so long as they are small I can handle whatever _pops up.
> _
> That said, I roll up to this apartment building in Venice Beach one night, and out comes a 30 something professional lady totting her large suitcase and fairly overweight (60 lbs) boxer dog on a leash. She is lugging the suitcase down the stairs so I go up and help her with it - I always get out and put their luggage in _my back hatch_.
> 
> _LAX?_ I ask, she says _yup_ and she is _running a bit late_. I don't see any crate for Fido so I ask genuinely out of curiosity, _They let you take him on the flight? - _She retorts, _He's a service dog. _First time I've ever had that claim, and first dog I've ever had larger than a lap dog.
> 
> As I am putting the suitcase in the back pax is trying to get Fido to _go potty _in the bit of grass by the curb. He doesn't and they jump in. Dog on the floor behind the passenger seat and her just behind me. I reach back and pet Fido on the head and tell her, _If he needs to go feel free to ask me and I'll find a nice safe place for us to pull over, we have time.
> _
> Five minutes into the trip I smell the distinct _aroma _of dog poo! I'm like WTF?!? *really???* I held my thoughts for the moment, but was definitely going to be annoyed if Fido pitched a loaf on the floor and was now stepping or sitting in it and tracking/smearing it all over the rest of the back. After another couple of minutes I smell it again, but this time pax says, _Oh Fido, you did not. _I'm like totally ready to stop the car and ask them both to exit pronto. Then she says, _I'm sorry he has the worst gas sometimes.
> _
> Dropped her at Terminal 1 and they were on their merry way. Lesson learned..._Don't let strangers in the back of my car with dogs that have gas and probably need to poop. _Wait, I can't not do that...I'm an Uber Driver with laws telling me I *must* take 'Service Animals' - The way of the late great Optimus Uber is looking more and more appealing every day. : o


Very lucky - you definitely dodged a b̶u̶l̶l̶e̶t turd on that one.


----------



## Ziggy

Horsebm said:


> You are not allowed to ask any questions pertaining to the functions of a service animal and it's handler.


Actually ... you are incorrect ... per 2010 ADA Requirements for Service Animals (latest) ... You are allowed to ask 2 questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.


----------



## dirtnaprightnow

EcoboostMKS said:


> Anxiety is a big deal. It's just not a recognized disability by the ADA where a service dog is required unless related to PTSD that will cause anxiety attacks. Anxiety alone is not a valid reason and you'd be well within your rights to ask that passenger what specific tasks that dog was trained to do to aid in coping with the passengers anxiety. Should be easy to answer for a legitimate service dog owner. No answer, no ride.


Messing with Wounded Warriors with PTSD is almost like standing on the train tracks hearing the whistle and waiting. Sometimes the train stops before it hits you. Other times you become a grease spot.

If the PAX says PTSD service dog, shut your pie hole and show the respect they have earned.

If PTSD has never touched your life you have no idea what has gone on to cause it. Err on the side of compassion.


----------



## dirtnaprightnow

Ziggy said:


> Actually ... you are incorrect ... per 2010 ADA Requirements for Service Animals (latest) ... You are allowed to ask 2 questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.


100% correct - Justice Dept investigates all complaints


----------



## Horsebm

Ziggy said:


> Actually ... you are incorrect ... per 2010 ADA Requirements for Service Animals (latest) ... You are allowed to ask 2 questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.


Day late, dollar short. This was already pointed out on the first page of this thread.


----------



## dirtnaprightnow

Horsebm said:


> Day late, dollar short. This was already pointed out on the first page of this thread.


Ok and.......


----------



## Horsebm

Redundancy !


----------



## Ziggy

Horsebm said:


> Day late, dollar short. This was already pointed out on the first page of this thread.


well ... just finished some egg nog and sweet potato pie ... so I wasn't feeling like reading all the posts ... bah humbug ... lol


----------



## Mr. T

I just let them bring them anyways. Usually get tips from it


----------



## UberLaLa

Mr. T said:


> I just let them bring them anyways. Usually get tips from it


*Mr. T*ip!


----------



## elelegido

UP.net owner - couldn't you have found a happier looking dog for your pic?










The dog's thinking, "And you Uber drivers moan about not getting tips? I'm a slave 24/7 to this dude standing behind me for Kibbles n Bits. Great..."


----------



## Lord Summerisle

XUberMike said:


> Great idea: Uber Dog.
> 
> Passengers that have dogs and/or don't mind dog hair/dander on their clothes can choose uber dog
> 
> Those that don't don't pick uber dog


Dumb ass pax eating hot dogs will choose this.


----------



## notsurewhattotellyou

I won't be allowing any animal in my car and I won't be allowing certain handicapped persons in my car anymore either. Some fat bastard that weighed at least 400 lbs who had one of those scoot along things under one of his tree trunk legs scratched my leather with his fat ass machinery. Dog or fat ass...if i don't want them riding, I'll drive off just as fast as I drive up.


----------



## elelegido

Tonights attempt to get me to take the dog was done by text, which saved me having to drive over to the young lady.



















And with that she cancelled the ride.


----------



## KGB7

elelegido said:


> No; I can prove that what I am saying is true - fake service dogs CAN be denied entry to premises by service providers and be protected by law when they do. There are many publicized legal cases where this has happened. _Baugher v. City of Ellensburgh, WA, 2007 WL 858627 (E.D. Wash. 2007_ is one of them.
> 
> In this case, a woman took a dog into a convenience store. She claimed it was a service animal, the clerk decided it was not, and the woman was removed from the store by police. She later had the clerk prosecuted under the ADA but the court found the clerk not guilty because the woman could produce no evidence in court that the dog had been trained in tasks to help her.
> 
> Cases like this are tried federal court cases which are not open to interpretation by you, me, or anyone - the fact is that ADA claims were falsely made by people, and the courts have upheld the rights of service providers to deny service to non-service animals.
> 
> However, there have also been cases where ADA claims have been made in court against providers who denied service and they have indeed been convicted, because the animal was proved in court to be a service animal. Which is why it is important to be sure when denying service. But, denying service to fake dogs without being convicted even when prosecuted in court is certainly a legal right that we service providers possess, as proved above.


Keep up the good work and keep up the good fight. You have my support!


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

elelegido said:


> There are different sets of rules which apply, depending on both the type of dog (service animal, emotional support animal, therapy animal) and on the setting in which the dog handler expects access for the dog.
> 
> The ADA rules cover service dogs only and only organizations (such as businesses) which provide services to the public, i.e. libraries, restaurants, taxi cabs - anywhere a member of the public would ordinarily expect to be able to go. And the ADA rules specify that no documentation is required to be shown by disabled people at any time for their service animal, in any public place. As mentioned above, the dog has to be trained for specific tasks to help the disabled person - companion dogs, comfort dogs, therapy dogs etc are not covered by the ADA.
> 
> There are other rules for non-public places covered by other regulations. Non-public places include rented accommodation such as apartments and houses. In some cases landlords can be forced to accept therapy dogs and emotional support dogs if the dog owner gets a letter from their doctor. There is also an exception for airline travel, where therapy/emotion dogs must be accepted by the airline if the owner provides proof in the form of a doctors' letter. The airline rules are wide open to abuse though. Recently an undercover reporter from ABC managed to take not only a fake support animal on a plane, but also an "emotional support" rabbit and an "emotional support" hedgehog
> 
> Don't take a ratings hit when you decline rides to pet owners - just don't start the trip until you've verified that it is indeed a service animal. No trip start = no rating.
> 
> Regarding what small dogs can be trained to do; I don't know. Poodles apparently are one of the most intelligent dogs breeds; never seen one doing the New York Times crossword though. I guess it also depends on temperament. I think little dogs would be too jumpy and nervous.


There are small dogs that specifically are trained to smell the person's breath and recognise when their blood sugar is out of range. They are actually better than a big dog as they can be carried close to the face, often in a harness, for that purpose.

I imagine there are other problems that manifest in a person's breath that dogs might be trained to recognise. But that is becoming a more common one.

The common perception that small lapdog are never service dogs is just incorrect. Dogs are now used to find termites in buildings, skin cancer...the list goes on. And even the worst dog's nose can smell the typical "fruity" breath of a diabetic with high blood sugar long before you or I could, and thus before it becomes dangerous.

Service dogs doing something like that are also not likely to be as highly trained as those performing multiple tasks for a physically disabled person. Because of that they may not appear likely to be service dogs. They don't fit the stereotype. They may only need to alert for very specific things.

I think the easiest way to fix all this would be to require universal certification, obtainable with a doctor's (or some other authority such as a dog trainer's) letter explaining the service and disability the dog is used for. Then a tag for the dog stating "service dog" and a brief description of the dog).

Then make it a big fine to fake such and a big fine to refuse service when the tag is shown.

The tag would not need to say what the dog does or what the disability of the person is. That would be known to whatever government agency that would issue it for the purpose of providing the tag but not made public. There could also be "in training" tags.

I think the idea of not wanting the person to have to explain their disability makes sense; it's a privacy issue. But it would eliminate all of the questions beyond the presence of the tag and does it belong to that dog.

Just my 2 cents. I think there is a big problem these days with people thinking they know what a service dog "looks like" and that's just not as easy to tell anymore.


----------



## thomas1234

I get the hatred towards people who lie about their dog being a service dog. I don't get why anyone would ask. unless it's not on a leash, what's the big deal? I let dogs in my car all the time.


----------



## EcoboostMKS

elelegido said:


> Tonights attempt to get me to take the dog was done by text, which saved me having to drive over to the young lady.
> 
> View attachment 19294
> 
> 
> View attachment 19296
> 
> 
> And with that she cancelled the ride.


People are such morons. Nice job. Well done.


----------



## EcoboostMKS

thomas1234 said:


> I get the hatred towards people who lie about their dog being a service dog. I don't get why anyone would ask. unless it's not on a leash, what's the big deal? I let dogs in my car all the time.


Because dogs shed and drool and people don't want dog hair all over their car because someone wants to bring their dog with them. Not all dogs are good in the car too. If you're fine with it, more power to you. Allow all the pets in the car that you want. If the dog is not a service dog, you're allowed to refuse them. Some people just don't want to clean up the mess or deal with it. It's their choice.


----------



## thomas1234

Makes sense. I guess I have been lucky.


----------



## sidewazzz

UberLaLa said:


> First, I do take dogs within reason - lap dogs no problem. Have only taken 3 or 4. Have never needed to deny, yet. I drive Beverly Hills, Hollywood, etc.., gonna get these requests and I just decided so long as they are small I can handle whatever _pops up.
> _
> That said, I roll up to this apartment building in Venice Beach one night, and out comes a 30 something professional lady totting her large suitcase and fairly overweight (60 lbs) boxer dog on a leash. She is lugging the suitcase down the stairs so I go up and help her with it - I always get out and put their luggage in _my back hatch_.
> 
> _LAX?_ I ask, she says _yup_ and she is _running a bit late_. I don't see any crate for Fido so I ask genuinely out of curiosity, _They let you take him on the flight? - _She retorts, _He's a service dog. _First time I've ever had that claim, and first dog I've ever had larger than a lap dog.
> 
> As I am putting the suitcase in the back pax is trying to get Fido to _go potty _in the bit of grass by the curb. He doesn't and they jump in. Dog on the floor behind the passenger seat and her just behind me. I reach back and pet Fido on the head and tell her, _If he needs to go feel free to ask me and I'll find a nice safe place for us to pull over, we have time.
> _
> Five minutes into the trip I smell the distinct _aroma _of dog poo! I'm like WTF?!? *really???* I held my thoughts for the moment, but was definitely going to be annoyed if Fido pitched a loaf on the floor and was now stepping or sitting in it and tracking/smearing it all over the rest of the back. After another couple of minutes I smell it again, but this time pax says, _Oh Fido, you did not. _I'm like totally ready to stop the car and ask them both to exit pronto. Then she says, _I'm sorry he has the worst gas sometimes.
> _
> Dropped her at Terminal 1 and they were on their merry way. Lesson learned..._Don't let strangers in the back of my car with dogs that have gas and probably need to poop. _Wait, I can't not do that...I'm an Uber Driver with laws telling me I *must* take 'Service Animals' - The way of the late great Optimus Uber is looking more and more appealing every day. : o


Pretty lucky... your 1st mistake was not asking if he was a companion dog.


----------



## UberLaLa

sidewazzz said:


> Pretty lucky... your 1st mistake was not asking if he was a companion dog.


I would guess if the airlines allow fido, then he is a _Service Dog._


----------



## elelegido

UberLaLa said:


> I would guess if the airlines allow fido, then he is a _Service Dog._


The regulations which apply to the airline industry (Department of Transport) are not the regulations which apply to us (ADA). The DOT introduced special regulations which apply only to airlines, allowing emotional support dogs if the disabled person provides proof of the dog's status signed by a licensed mental health professional. Doesn't apply to any industry other than airlines.


----------



## UberLaLa

elelegido said:


> The regulations which apply to the airline industry (Department of Transport) are not the regulations which apply to us (ADA). The DOT introduced special regulations which apply only to airlines, allowing emotional support dogs if the disabled person provides proof of the dog's status signed by a licensed mental health professional. Doesn't apply to any industry other than airlines.


Very helpful...thanks!


----------



## Demon

elelegido said:


> Nah, as long as drivers do not do anything illegal or immoral in their vehicle, it's none of UberLyft's business.


You're totally wrong. You're a partner, and what you do in your vehicle has an impact on your partner. There are legal things that can sever your contract with your TNC. Having a legally owned gun in the car is the 1st thing that pops in my head.



elelegido said:


> Tonights attempt to get me to take the dog was done by text, which saved me having to drive over to the young lady.
> 
> View attachment 19294
> 
> 
> View attachment 19296
> 
> 
> And with that she cancelled the ride.


This is just an awful, awful strategy.

It may be very legal to ask these questions, but as we established legal things can end your relationship with your TNC. Uber wants a seemless rider experience, you asking these questions interferes with that. I also haven't seen anything in your posts that says how a potential passenger must answer these questions. In the exchange you just posted this potential rider answered your question, and they still wound up canceling. Regardless of the legal situation, this was not a seemless experience for the rider, and they may have also screenshotted the conversation.

You're in the service industry, if you don't like people lying to you the service industry may not be for you.


----------



## elelegido

Demon said:


> You're totally wrong. You're a partner, and what you do in your vehicle has an impact on your partner.


Maybe it does impact them. I never said it didn't. Personally, I don't care if it does impact them. This may be a partnership, but it is an adversarial partnership, not a cooperative one. In an adversarial partnership, neither party considers the interests of the other, which is the reality of dealing with Uber.


> This is just an awful, awful strategy..


It works for me. I am very happy with the results, namely not letting abusive pax abuse a system intended to protect disadantaged or vulnerable people.


> Uber wants a seemless rider experience, you asking these questions interferes with that.


I don't do "seamless". Again, I don't give a monkey's what Uber may or may not want. They also want us to offer free treats to pax paid for with our own money and to open doors for them etc etc. Who cares what they want? They are not our bosses. As they claim, Uber's just an app to link pax with driver.


> I also haven't seen anything in your posts that says how a potential passenger must answer these questions.


Some things I will leave people to figure out for themselves. It isn't difficult.


> In the exchange you just posted this potential rider answered your question, and they still wound up canceling.


*Reading comprehension* The rider did not answer the question. Instead she offered to produce some kind of list.


> Regardless of the legal situation, this was not a seemless experience for the rider, and they may have also screenshotted the conversation.


Again, I don't offer "seamless". And if she took a screenshot, then great.


> the service industry may not be for you.


LOL, tell me something I _don't_ know.


----------



## Wallricko

Demon said:


> You're in the service industry, if you don't like people lying to you the service industry may not be for you.


I love how people try to use this quote to justify customer's bad behavior. This is why people continue to trample on service industry employees. Door mat attitudes like this.


----------



## elelegido

Wallricko said:


> I love how people try to use this quote to justify customer's bad behavior. This is why people continue to trample on service industry employees. Door mat attitudes like this.


You hit the nail on the head. Some drivers buckle on day one and take whatever abuse some pax will try to get away with, thinking it is required of them as part of the job.


----------



## ATX 22

The only service animal I have come across so far was easy to tell since he was leading the blind pax.
Best behaved rider ever. I didn't even mind cleaning the shed fur. He sat in the floorboard between the pax feet and did not move until I opened the door.


----------



## yoyodyne

UberLaLa said:


> I would guess if the airlines allow fido, then he is a _Service Dog._


*People are faking disabilities to fly with their pets*

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2015/12/07/people-are-faking-disabilities-to-fly-with-their-pets/


----------



## Mike78

A couple days ago I got a PAX came out of Beauty salon young girl with a poodle without a leash, I said - stop! I do not take animals in my car, except service dog... she said it's a service dog, I said it's not a service dog...then, she said it's a therapy dog lol.... I said sorry, try to request one more time.


----------



## Jacobim Mugato

Are service dogs supposed to sit on the floor? What are the rules regarding that?

Sorry if it's already been answered, I scanned through the thread but did not see this discussed. Thanks!


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Jacobim Mugato said:


> Are service dogs supposed to sit on the floor? What are the rules regarding that?
> 
> Sorry if it's already been answered, I scanned through the thread but did not see this discussed. Thanks!


Rules by whom? Anyway:
Seeing eye dogs and MOST service dogs are usually trained to sit on the floor. Smaller dogs that perform a service like say, smelling the person's breath to alert when their blood sugar is too low may be carried or in a carrier like a baby because the proximity is important.

Service dogs should NOT be separated from their person. An airport shuttle service was sued over putting seeing eye dogs in crates for the shuttle journey. So putting them in the back of an SUV etc. is not okay.


----------



## Jacobim Mugato

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Rules by whom? Anyway:
> Seeing eye dogs and MOST service dogs are usually trained to sit on the floor. Smaller dogs that perform a service like say, smelling the person's breath to alert when their blood sugar is too low may be carried or in a carrier like a baby because the proximity is important.
> 
> Service dogs should NOT be separated from their person. An airport shuttle service was sued over putting seeing eye dogs in crates for the shuttle journey. So putting them in the back of an SUV etc. is not okay.


Good points, thank you for the reply.

I had a passenger claim they had a service dog, it was obviously just a pet. I hadn't dealt with this before so I didn't know to ask the question about what service or task it had been trained to perform. Anyway, the dog was clearly not trained in any capacity (service or otherwise) and the owner just thought it would be fine to have the dog prance all over my back seat as it pleased. I was not amused.


----------



## Jacobim Mugato

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Rules by whom? Anyway:
> Seeing eye dogs and MOST service dogs are usually trained to sit on the floor. Smaller dogs that perform a service like say, smelling the person's breath to alert when their blood sugar is too low may be carried or in a carrier like a baby because the proximity is important.
> 
> Service dogs should NOT be separated from their person. An airport shuttle service was sued over putting seeing eye dogs in crates for the shuttle journey. So putting them in the back of an SUV etc. is not okay.


And in terms of "rules," I'm pretty sure I've read they're supposed to be on the floor at the owner's feet on planes and in restaurants, but I didn't know the accepted practice for in cars. Like you said, I guess it depends on the service the dog is providing. Next time I'll know to ask so I can catch them in their lies and not have to provide a ride.

Obviously, I'm happy to provide a comfortable ride for true service animals, but I just don't like liars who abuse ADA protections to transport their personal pets.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Jacobim Mugato said:


> Are service dogs supposed to sit on the floor? What are the rules regarding that?


To be on the safe side with Uber, you should probably just let the dog drive.


----------



## cannonball7

Yet another Uber cluster mess, sigh.

"Well passenger, I have a service rattlesnake in the car and it ornery and hungry. And my snake loves Toto Tarts!"


----------



## thomas1955

Horsebm said:


> FYI ! If the passenger e-mails and complains to Uber about you not accepting her ride request due to a service dog issue, you will probably be deactivated.
> You are not allowed to ask any questions pertaining to the functions of a service animal and it's handler.


Wrong. Go read the ADA.


----------



## njn

In NJ, it could be $1000 fine and 6 months for transporting an unrestrained animal.

http://www.lombardolawoffices.com/an-update-to-the-new-jersey-pet-seat-belt-law/


----------



## Horsebm

thomas1955 said:


> Wrong. Go read the ADA.


*Old news, got it. Start on page 1
Thank you.*


----------



## CincyUberMike

I am all for service animals, as well as "therapy" animals as some have called them, but at $.80/mile + expenses I don't care if the person I pull up to is noticeably blind with a service dog, I am not picking up that passenger. Call it illegal, call it immoral, call it whatever you want, my car is not getting anymore depreciated by this job than it already has. In fact, just to add some sugar on it, I probably wouldn't pick up a blind or disabled person even if they didn't have an service animal with them.


----------



## San Diego Steve

CincyUberMike said:


> I am all for service animals, as well as "therapy" animals as some have called them, but at $.80/mile + expenses I don't care if the person I pull up to is noticeably blind with a service dog, I am not picking up that passenger. Call it illegal, call it immoral, call it whatever you want, my car is not getting anymore depreciated by this job than it already has. In fact, just to add some sugar on it, I probably wouldn't pick up a blind or disabled person even if they didn't have an service animal with them.


How do you pull that off without getting deactivated?


----------



## observer

San Diego Steve said:


> How do you pull that off without getting deactivated?


And sued....


----------



## Rick N.

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


Maybe this dog was trained to be courteous and polite, since the owner was probably incapable of being either one.


----------



## CincyUberMike

San Diego Steve said:


> How do you pull that off without getting deactivated?


I would probably have a little laugh to myself if they deactivated me. I used to do this full time but I haven't since the last rate cut. I only drive maybe 15-20 hrs/week. The only people I drive for $.80/mile are airport pickups because they are generally respectful people that have not been drinking that are going a fair distance. If you see me doing any pick ups outside the airport, you can be certain it is at least a 2.0x surge.

And sue me,? I don't have anything to take first of all, and secondly it would be my word against their word as to the reason I declined a trip. Unless they have me on audio/video recording discriminating against the person, there's no evidence. There have been *many* requests where I arrive, take one look at the the passenger, and simply cancel and drive off without any interaction. I have an unspoken curbside evaluation. If they don't pass, I cancel and drive off. No explanations, no debates. They will request another ride, but it won't be me.


----------



## thomas1234

CincyUberMike said:


> I would probably have a little laugh to myself if they deactivated me. I used to do this full time but I haven't since the last rate cut. I only drive maybe 15-20 hrs/week. The only people I drive for $.80/mile are airport pickups because they are generally respectful people that have not been drinking that are going a fair distance. If you see me doing any pick ups outside the airport, you can be certain it is at least a 2.0x surge.
> 
> And sue me,? I don't have anything to take first of all, and secondly it would be my word against their word as to the reason I declined a trip. Unless they have me on audio/video recording discriminating against the person, there's no evidence. There have been *many* requests where I arrive, take one look at the the passenger, and simply cancel and drive off without any interaction. I have an unspoken curbside evaluation. If they don't pass, I cancel and drive off. No explanations, no debates. They will request another ride, but it won't be me.


----------



## thomas1234

You, sir, are ballsy.


----------



## Realityshark

No dogs in my car. Period. I don't care who it is. I drive out of view, wait 5 minutes, hit cancel / no show and get paid.

My car / my rules. Disconnect me Uber, I don't care. No cats either.


----------



## Beur

I'm sorry I unable to transport you and your dog due to my severe dog allergy. I'll go ahead and camel the trip no charge, please be sure to inform the next driver you'll be traveling with an animal immediately after booking your request.


----------



## Beur

RamzFanz said:


> It has papers, it has a vest, it rides on airplanes and stays in hotels.


LOL "it has papers, it has a vest" all of which can be purchased on line.

A companion animal is not a service animal per ADA. Your sisters dog is a companion animal and as such is not afforded protection under ADA laws.


----------



## Lnsky

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


Service dogs are required to wear a vest that says service dog. This is the standard airlines, grocery stores and the like follow. Airlines require no service dogs to be in a bag as do I believe grocery stores. Not a bad logic to follow.


----------



## Lnsky

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


Also I noticed the other day, I've done 400 rides for Lyft and never once had a dog. In as many with amber I've had a dozen. One was dirty and some people don't even ask. It just comes down to lack of respect.

Uber riders expect a town car Lyft drivers expect a ride.


----------



## cannonball7

thomas1234 said:


> I get the hatred towards people who lie about their dog being a service dog. I don't get why anyone would ask. unless it's not on a leash, what's the big deal? I let dogs in my car all the time.


Fleas. I am highly allergic.


----------



## thomas1234

cannonball7 said:


> Fleas. I am highly allergic.


That, I can understand. My wife is allergic to cats. If I had cat in my car, my wife would bust out in hives and her eyes would Ballon up.


----------



## afrojoe824

They're becoming sneakier now. 

They hide their dogs in their purses then let them out once the ride starts after a couple of miles


----------



## Lnsky

thomas1234 said:


> That, I can understand. My wife is allergic to cats. If I had cat in my car, my wife would bust out in hives and her eyes would Ballon up.


That's your private car. I take my dog in my car when I know I'm not driving that say and have to clean it thoroughly before I drove again for many reasons. The number one thing people on it where complain about is a stinky car. So if I pick up somebody with the dog my cars going to stink in the next passengers going to be upset about that. Another thing is that hair if I don't have time to stop and pull over before my next ride that next writers going to get dog hair all over them. and then yes finally as you just stated some people are allergic. I might be more open to carrying dogs if there was a charge for it because honestly there should be a cleanup fee or at least some type of service charge. Because once you get out I have to then clean my car off for three dollars for 20 minutes of my time


----------



## elelegido

Lnsky said:


> Service dogs are required to wear a vest that says service dog.


What makes you think that?


----------



## SumGuy

yoyodyne said:


> *People are faking disabilities to fly with their pets*
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2015/12/07/people-are-faking-disabilities-to-fly-with-their-pets/


lol...Can you imagine being on a flight with a mini horse pooping all over the place, especially in fist class where you paid a lot of money?


----------



## afrojoe824

elelegido said:


> What makes you think that?


I would assume legit service dogs are given those vests from the government to avoid people just claiming their pet is a service dog.

I may be wrong, but that's just my assumption. Not really too familiar with the ADA.


----------



## elelegido

afrojoe824 said:


> I would assume legit service dogs are given those vests from the government to avoid people just claiming their pet is a service dog.


No, there is no yellow vest - issuing government department.

The intent of the ADA rules is to ensure that disabled people can be accompanied by their dogs without having to show any special IDs or documents or other items such as vests, collars etc to demonstrate the service dog status of their animals.

There are, however, lots of companies which sell meaningless certifications, IDs etc for profit.


----------



## observer

SumGuy said:


> lol...Can you imagine being on a flight with a mini horse pooping all over the place, especially in fist class where you paid a lot of money?


I'm not sure if this has been posted on this thread, I know I've seen it on the forum,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...law-to-bring-a-live-turkey-on-a-delta-flight/


----------



## nickd8775

If you call and say that you have a dog, I'll take it. If you show up with a dog with telling me, I'll cancel and hide for 5 minutes. If it's a pool, I won't take it


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Lnsky said:


> Service dogs are required to wear a vest that says service dog. This is the standard airlines, grocery stores and the like follow. Airlines require no service dogs to be in a bag as do I believe grocery stores. Not a bad logic to follow.


They are not required to wear anything that says service dog. Do you people even read?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

afrojoe824 said:


> Not really too familiar with the ADA.


NO! Seriously?


----------



## afrojoe824

Fuzzyelvis said:


> NO! Seriously?


I am familiar but not an expert as far "vests" go


----------



## thomas1234

I go 5 months without getting a dog. Last week I picked up 4 people with dogs. One was a puppy. Stinkin' adorable too. No one even tried to claim service animals. I didn't ask if other drivers gave them a hard time because they all had ratings under 4.5. It is so slow these days.


----------



## elelegido

thomas1234 said:


> That, I can understand. My wife is allergic to cats. If I had cat in my car, my wife would bust out in hives and her eyes would Ballon up.


I had that a while ago. A woman had brought a bag into the car. Just as I commented to her that her bag appeared to be meowing, the cat popped its head out of the opening and had a look round.

She did not ask permission to transport the animal, but as I like cats all was ok.


----------



## Steve4516

Lnsky said:


> Service dogs are required to wear a vest that says service dog. This is the standard airlines, grocery stores and the like follow. Airlines require no service dogs to be in a bag as do I believe grocery stores. Not a bad logic to follow.


I have a psychiatric service dog. So a couple of things
1. Service dogs are not required to wear a vest.
2. Other than some states which offer voluntary registrations, there are no registration papers or anything else necessary or available for a service for a service dog. In fact, the ADA on its website States there is no such thing as National registration papers. If registration papers from anything other than a state is the person's only prove that a dog is a service dog you can reject them Personally I went ahead and registered my dog with the state of North Carolina so there's no questions. He is a service dog. He has a service dog tag.
3. In another post, someone made the statement that in order to have a psychiatric service dogs the person must be so mentally impaired that that they would not be able to perform tasks or be able to get out and around without a dog. This may be so, but you are absolutely positively not allowed to ask a question like that. It's illegal. You would in essence be asking the nature of persons disability if you did that and that is completely and totally illegal

4. A service dog must be under control at all times. You are within your rights to refuse service to a dog who is who is pulling on the leash and without any command is is pulling and scratching to get into your car. The dog is out of control and may wellbe a danger in your car.

5. It is your car. You should ask if the person is disabled. Keep in mind however, you can only ask this question if the disability is not visible. You absolutely positively and not ask this question tota blind person. However, what you can and should do, is ask that second question, what specific service is the dog trained to perform. Often times that is your way out. People who buy fake vests and papers the internet often hesitate or blow this question.

On the flip side.

1. I see Uber very much like Airbnb. Can any host refuse me access to their home because I have a service dog? No. However, it's not a hotel room is there home. Personally, I asked if it's okay. I make sure to ask the question in a manner that would completely let the person off the hook if they said no.

2. My dog stays on the floor at my feet. If it's a small car he stays on the floor on top of my feet. Again, Uber uses someone's personal personal. It's not a taxi.

3. I encourage anyone reading this to get on the ADa website. Read up on what you can and cannot do. Though very minimal, you do have some options.

4. I think it has gotten to the point where there are more phomp service dogs out there than real ones. At least it seems that way. If you have it service dog and live in a state where voluntary registration is available, do it. Let's put an end to this phony service dog crap.

5. If you are driver, and really don't want to have a dog in your car, the severe allergy out will work. You must make a reasonable accommodation according to the ADA. Putting yourself in a position where you could end up in an emergency room with an asthma attack or an allergic reaction is not reasonable.

I am sorry to be so wordy about this. The crap that is going on now days has a significant and severe impact on folks such as myself who have a legitimate service dog.
I hope this has been helpful.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver

Steve4516 said:


> I have a psychiatric service dog. So a couple of things
> 1. Service dogs are not required to wear a vest.
> 2. Other than some states which offer voluntary registrations, there are no registration papers or anything else necessary or available for a service for a service dog. In fact, the ADA on its website States there is no such thing as National registration papers. If registration papers from anything other than a state is the person's only prove that a dog is a service dog you can reject them Personally I went ahead and registered my dog with the state of North Carolina so there's no questions. He is a service dog. He has a service dog tag.
> 3. In another post, someone made the statement that in order to have a psychiatric service dogs the person must be so mentally impaired that that they would not be able to perform tasks or be able to get out and around without a dog. This may be so, but you are absolutely positively not allowed to ask a question like that. It's illegal. You would in essence be asking the nature of persons disability if you did that and that is completely and totally illegal
> 
> 4. A service dog must be under control at all times. You are within your rights to refuse service to a dog who is who is pulling on the leash and without any command is is pulling and scratching to get into your car. The dog is out of control and may wellbe a danger in your car.
> 
> 5. It is your car. You should ask if the person is disabled. Keep in mind however, you can only ask this question if the disability is not visible. You absolutely positively and not ask this question tota blind person. However, what you can and should do, is ask that second question, what specific service is the dog trained to perform. Often times that is your way out. People who buy fake vests and papers the internet often hesitate or blow this question.
> 
> On the flip side.
> 
> 1. I see Uber very much like Airbnb. Can any host refuse me access to their home because I have a service dog? No. However, it's not a hotel room is there home. Personally, I asked if it's okay. I make sure to ask the question in a manner that would completely let the person off the hook if they said no.
> 
> 2. My dog stays on the floor at my feet. If it's a small car he stays on the floor on top of my feet. Again, Uber uses someone's personal personal. It's not a taxi.
> 
> 3. I encourage anyone reading this to get on the ADa website. Read up on what you can and cannot do. Though very minimal, you do have some options.
> 
> 4. I think it has gotten to the point where there are more phomp service dogs out there than real ones. At least it seems that way. If you have it service dog and live in a state where voluntary registration is available, do it. Let's put an end to this phony service dog crap.
> 
> 5. If you are driver, and really don't want to have a dog in your car, the severe allergy out will work. You must make a reasonable accommodation according to the ADA. Putting yourself in a position where you could end up in an emergency room with an asthma attack or an allergic reaction is not reasonable.
> 
> I am sorry to be so wordy about this. The crap that is going on now days has a significant and severe impact on folks such as myself who have a legitimate service dog.
> I hope this has been helpful.


I will pick you and the dog up and take you wherever. My dash cam will record the whole trip.

I will be nice to you, and you will pay me to clean your dog's hair out. However, you may end up feeling betrayed by the cleaning fee. Riders expect a clean and sanitary car, or our ratings will go down over sitting in your dog's remains.

You should have just taken the meds, and not cling onto a dog.


----------



## Demon

Steve4516 said:


> I have a psychiatric service dog. So a couple of things
> 1. Service dogs are not required to wear a vest.
> 2. Other than some states which offer voluntary registrations, there are no registration papers or anything else necessary or available for a service for a service dog. In fact, the ADA on its website States there is no such thing as National registration papers. If registration papers from anything other than a state is the person's only prove that a dog is a service dog you can reject them Personally I went ahead and registered my dog with the state of North Carolina so there's no questions. He is a service dog. He has a service dog tag.
> 3. In another post, someone made the statement that in order to have a psychiatric service dogs the person must be so mentally impaired that that they would not be able to perform tasks or be able to get out and around without a dog. This may be so, but you are absolutely positively not allowed to ask a question like that. It's illegal. You would in essence be asking the nature of persons disability if you did that and that is completely and totally illegal
> 
> 4. A service dog must be under control at all times. You are within your rights to refuse service to a dog who is who is pulling on the leash and without any command is is pulling and scratching to get into your car. The dog is out of control and may wellbe a danger in your car.
> 
> 5. It is your car. You should ask if the person is disabled. Keep in mind however, you can only ask this question if the disability is not visible. You absolutely positively and not ask this question tota blind person. However, what you can and should do, is ask that second question, what specific service is the dog trained to perform. Often times that is your way out. People who buy fake vests and papers the internet often hesitate or blow this question.
> 
> On the flip side.
> 
> 1. I see Uber very much like Airbnb. Can any host refuse me access to their home because I have a service dog? No. However, it's not a hotel room is there home. Personally, I asked if it's okay. I make sure to ask the question in a manner that would completely let the person off the hook if they said no.
> 
> 2. My dog stays on the floor at my feet. If it's a small car he stays on the floor on top of my feet. Again, Uber uses someone's personal personal. It's not a taxi.
> 
> 3. I encourage anyone reading this to get on the ADa website. Read up on what you can and cannot do. Though very minimal, you do have some options.
> 
> 4. I think it has gotten to the point where there are more phomp service dogs out there than real ones. At least it seems that way. If you have it service dog and live in a state where voluntary registration is available, do it. Let's put an end to this phony service dog crap.
> 
> 5. If you are driver, and really don't want to have a dog in your car, the severe allergy out will work. You must make a reasonable accommodation according to the ADA. Putting yourself in a position where you could end up in an emergency room with an asthma attack or an allergic reaction is not reasonable.
> 
> I am sorry to be so wordy about this. The crap that is going on now days has a significant and severe impact on folks such as myself who have a legitimate service dog.
> I hope this has been helpful.


The allergy thing will absolutely not work.


----------



## Willzuber

I will make an exception for a seeing-eye service animal, so long as I can get him/her in the trunk.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver

Ideally, dogs are man's best friend, but many act like the dogs are their spouses!


----------



## Zebonkey

elelegido said:


> The ADA regulations on service dogs are not clearly written


No sheet!
The way to solve most of service animals' related issues, is to issue them a proper ID or a special tag/vest, and make it mandatory to display it upon request. I think, it is reasonable. 
Because people lie and cheat. 
I allow all dogs in my SUV, and have a dog rug in the back, but that's me - I like dogs, they usually lift my spirit.


----------



## Demon

Zebonkey said:


> No sheet!
> The way to solve most of service animals' related issues, is to issue them a proper ID or a special tag/vest, and make it mandatory to display it upon request. I think, it is reasonable.
> Because people lie and cheat.
> I allow all dogs in my SUV, and have a dog rug in the back, but that's me - I like dogs, they usually lift my spirit.


How would they reasonably get the animal registered?


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver

Demon said:


> How would they reasonably get the animal registered?


By creating a federally issued service dog license with an official hologram logo, like with state issued driver's license!


----------



## Shakur

DOGS aint getting in unless ya tipping

Fly by cancel like I never saw ya

Try me


----------



## Demon

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> By creating a federally issued service dog license with an official hologram logo, like with state issued driver's license!


Then anyone with a pet could fill out the form and they magically become a service animal. That would increase the number of fakes.



Shakur said:


> DOGS aint getting in unless ya tipping
> 
> Fly by cancel like I never saw ya
> 
> Try me


Enjoy deactivation.


----------



## Shakur

Demon said:


> Then anyone with a pet could fill out the form and they magically become a service animal. That would increase the number of fakes.
> 
> Enjoy deactivation.


Been doing it for years

Come to chicago hahhaa try me

And im collecting cancel fee if ya push me


----------



## Zebonkey

Demon said:


> Then anyone with a pet could fill out the form and they magically become a service animal. That would increase the number of fakes.


You mean, like anyone with a car can get a disabled person's license plate, without proof of disability, right?
Or getting disability benefits.
You just show up, and claim whatever you feel like without any proof. That's exactly how things work.

Now here is how it works in real life here on Earth. You word is worth sheet.
I had a temporary disability years ago, when I broke my ankle. To get the temporary disabled parking permit I had to schedule an appointment at the DMV, bring proof of disability (from the doctor), and only then I was issued a 6 month permit. 
Similar proces should be in place for getting IDs, tags or permits for service animals.
As it is today, anyone can claim, that their dog or monkey or snake is a service animal without any proof.
And this is bullsheet.

Actually, a lot of municipalities require registering dogs.
SPCS can use additional revenue from service dog permit fees. Say, $10-20, the kind of fee, that anyone can afford, and if on low income, the fees should be waved, of course.


----------



## SuzeCB

Zebonkey said:


> You mean, like anyone with a car can get a disabled person's license plate, without proof of disability, right?
> Or getting disability benefits.
> You just show up, and claim whatever you feel like without any proof. That's exactly how things work.
> 
> Now here is how it works in real life here on Earth. You word is worth sheet.
> I had a temporary disability years ago, when I broke my ankle. To get the temporary disabled parking permit I had to schedule an appointment at the DMV, bring proof of disability (from the doctor), and only then I was issued a 6 month permit.
> Similar proces should be in place for getting IDs, tags or permits for service animals.
> As it is today, anyone can claim, that their dog or monkey or snake is a service animal without any proof.
> And this is bullsheet.
> 
> Actually, a lot of municipalities require registering dogs.
> SPCS can use additional revenue from service dog permit fees. Say, $10-20, the kind of fee, that anyone can afford, and if on low income, the fees should be waved, of course.


Driving is considered a "privilege" in all 50 states, and not a right, and so, therefore, is parking.

Doing everyday things is a necessity. Your argument is specious.


----------



## Demon

Zebonkey said:


> You mean, like anyone with a car can get a disabled person's license plate, without proof of disability, right?
> Or getting disability benefits.
> You just show up, and claim whatever you feel like without any proof. That's exactly how things work.
> 
> Now here is how it works in real life here on Earth. You word is worth sheet.
> I had a temporary disability years ago, when I broke my ankle. To get the temporary disabled parking permit I had to schedule an appointment at the DMV, bring proof of disability (from the doctor), and only then I was issued a 6 month permit.
> Similar proces should be in place for getting IDs, tags or permits for service animals.
> As it is today, anyone can claim, that their dog or monkey or snake is a service animal without any proof.
> And this is bullsheet.
> 
> Actually, a lot of municipalities require registering dogs.
> SPCS can use additional revenue from service dog permit fees. Say, $10-20, the kind of fee, that anyone can afford, and if on low income, the fees should be waved, of course.


Never said any of that, I asked a question. The other guy proposed filling out a form. 
You literally can't have a similar process to the one you mentioned for service animals. Let me know if you come up with something reasonable.


----------



## sbstar07

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


Lol!


----------



## Zebonkey

Demon said:


> Never said any of that, I asked a question. The other guy proposed filling out a form.
> You literally can't have a similar process to the one you mentioned for service animals. Let me know if you come up with something reasonable.


As I said before, a lot of states and municipalities have mandatory pet registration already. 
Read this: https://www.cesarsway.com/get-involved/bringing-new-dog-home/5-reasons-to-get-your-dog-licensed
Service dogs get discount. 
So there is already a way to register your service dog. The same places could issue service animal ID/vest/permit.
And I see service dogs wearing vests and IDs all the time, so there is already a place, where you can get them. 
And responsible people are getting them.



SuzeCB said:


> Driving is considered a "privilege" in all 50 states, and not a right, and so, therefore, is parking.
> 
> Doing everyday things is a necessity. Your argument is specious.


Yep. Driving is a privilege, but one can make the same argument, that for some disabled people it is a necessity, and so is getting the parking permit. And you have to apply for it, and prove, that you are disabled. 
It is not unreasonable to have service dogs have special vests/IDs/licenses to have special privileges.


----------



## SuzeCB

The only reason dogs get licensed is to prove they were vaccinated against rabies. That started because a rabies epidemic got so bad and killed enough livestock and people that the gov't acted. That's the only thing it does... oh, and make $ for the municipality.

So who will do the licensing? Who will decide if the dog qualifies? What will the qualifications be? Each dog gets trained to perform specific tasks that add up to a unique set custom to the needs of its handler. The only test that could be given is the two questions THAT WE CAN ALREADY ASK!

That being the case, how would it change anything?

What would be more productive, IMO, is if every business owner would learn the two questions, and when they're not answered correctly, call the authorities, who should also be educated about the two questions.


----------



## Pawtism

Zebonkey said:


> As I said before, a lot of states and municipalities have mandatory pet registration already.
> Read this: https://www.cesarsway.com/get-involved/bringing-new-dog-home/5-reasons-to-get-your-dog-licensed
> Service dogs get discount.
> So there is already a way to register your service dog. The same places could issue service animal ID/vest/permit.
> And I see service dogs wearing vests and IDs all the time, so there is already a place, where you can get them.
> And responsible people are getting them.
> 
> Yep. Driving is a privilege, but one can make the same argument, that for some disabled people it is a necessity, and so is getting the parking permit. And you have to apply for it, and prove, that you are disabled.
> It is not unreasonable to have service dogs have special vests/IDs/licenses to have special privileges.


Most cities/states that require registration for normal dogs also waive the fee for service dogs, the fee for the "national" service dog registration would have to be free as well (ADA already specifies that Service Dogs can't be charged extra for). Therefore your argument is flawed. Who's going to pay for it? It always comes back to that. Personally I'd like to see a legitimate national registry (and I do have a legit service dog). Fakes are a real challenge for those with real services dogs as they can set a real service dog back months in their training.

Who's going to pay for it? States will say it's a federal law, they should pay for it. Feds will say that States should have to do it through their statewide disability vocational networks. Neither has the money to cover it. Are you going to pay for it Zeb? I mean if you honestly believe in it so strongly, write the government a ten million dollar check earmarked solely for a national registry. No? That's what I thought.

Even if money wasn't an issue, there are still other factors too. Everyone says "let's have a national registry" when they have no idea of the challenges that it would involve. It would be like me saying "let's just erase the national deficit, that will solve the problem!" It's simply not that simple.


----------



## Steve4516

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> I will pick you and the dog up and take you wherever. My dash cam will record the whole trip.
> 
> I will be nice to you, and you will pay me to clean your dog's hair out. However, you may end up feeling betrayed by the cleaning fee. Riders expect a clean and sanitary car, or our ratings will go down over sitting in your dog's remains.
> 
> You should have just taken the meds, and not cling onto a dog.


You can't charge me a cleaning fee in North Carolina. I am not sure how you'd do so elsewhere. I use Visa, never MasterCard. Can't charge me for a charge I didn't authorize.
I am pretty good at sizing folks up. I doubt I'd ride with someone with such opinions



Demon said:


> How would they reasonably get the animal registered?


I know not what the answer to the question as to how legitimate registration would work. But it has obviously become necessary that something be done.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver

Steve4516 said:


> You can't charge me a cleaning fee in North Carolina. I am not sure how you'd do so elsewhere. I use Visa, never MasterCard. Can't charge me for a charge I didn't authorize.
> I am pretty good at sizing folks up. I doubt I'd ride with someone with such opinions


Uber's TOS says you will be required to pay for damages done to a driver's car. You will pay a cleaning fee one way or another, even if it's being taken to court!

You are not authorized to shit up other people's cars!


----------



## Pawtism

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Uber's TOS says you will be required to pay for damages done to a driver's car. You will pay a cleaning fee one way or another, even if it's being taken to court!
> 
> You are not authorized to shit up other people's cars!


You might be able to get a cleaning fee from Uber (I've heard many people say they have), but actually Uber has specifically stated that pax won't be charged a cleaning fee for service dog hair (and even for "accidents" the first two times, which I actually strongly disagree with, I think pax should be charged for accidents). A proper service dog would only have any kind of accident in a car if they were very sick or something (which would actually make it my fault as her handler, as I'm supposed to be monitoring her to ensure she's well enough to work), and if that ever happened, I'd make it right with the driver directly (as I'd be so embarrassed about the whole incident, I'd want to make sure it was solved). A tiny bit of hair that can be simply vacuumed up within a minute though (especially if a towel or blanket was used as it should be), I'm not as worried about. Of course any actual damage (not just cleaning), can (and should) be charged to the pax.

The reason they can't charge the pax for hair, is because it's against Federal Law (ADA). People who have to have a service animal aren't just dragging them around because they want to. Everytime someone tells me "I wish I could take my dog everywhere", all I can tell them is... Try it sometime. It takes most people literally about a minute or so to run into a convenience store and grab a bag of chips (and pay for them of course, assuming no line). It takes me about 5. Taking a dog with you, literally everywhere you go, is a challenge that only someone who has had to do it could understand. We have enough problems and don't need to be hassled by others over it.

Imagine for a moment if everywhere we went, they could charge us a fee. Think about all the places you might go in a day, being told you HAVE to take something (anything, say crutches) with you, but that you'll be charged a fee each time you do it. Unreasonable, right? Federal law seems to agree (plus it's really just common sense). To put it in terms some of you service dog haters might understand, imagine that you had to take a service dog on EVERY ride (not just might have to, each pax has a service dog), AND they rejected each and every cleaning fee you requested (every time). That's simply the mirror image of what some of you are arguing for against us. It's not pretty is it? People, on both sides, need to really stop and think about things. If a service dog has an accident in a car, that absolutely needs to be made right (no matter what Uber says), how is that the driver's problem? So those of us on the Service Dog side need to see reason too. But on the flip side, if my dog sheds a little hair, and you can vacuum it up within 30 seconds, it's unreasonable for you to expect a cleaning fee for that.

Anyway, what all this actually means is that any cleaning fee you get from Uber (if they approve it) would come from Uber directly, not from the pax. That might be where the disconnect here is. FormerTaxiDriver is correct in that they could probably get a cleaning fee (assuming the shedding was severe enough to convince Uber to do it), and Steve4516 is right that he wouldn't be paying it. Congrats, you're both right. 

Citations below:
*Cleaning Fees*
Riders cannot be charged cleaning fees for shedding by their service animals. Riders will be refunded any cleaning fees charged for shedding by their service animals.

A rider will not be charged for the first or second reported mess involving a service animal's bodily fluids. A rider can be charged for the third reported mess involving a service animal's bodily fluids. The rider may contest that such a mess occurred by responding to the fee notification email to notify customer support. If a rider contests the cleaning fee, Uber will make a reasonable good faith effort to determine whether a mess occurred.

https://accessibility.uber.com/service-animal-policy/

(This one mentions hotels specifically, as it's designed as a handout, but it's for all public accommodations, which is what we are considered).

Can hotels charge a cleaning fee for guests who have service animals?
A: No. Hotels are not permitted to charge guests for cleaning the hair or dander shed by
a service animal. However, if a guest's service animal causes damages to a guest room, a
hotel is permitted to charge the same fee for damages as charged to other guests.

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.pdf


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver

Pawtism said:


> A proper service dog would only have any kind of accident in a car if they were very sick or something (which would actually make it my fault as her handler, as *I'm supposed to be monitoring her to ensure she's well enough to work*), and if that ever happened, I'd make it right with the driver directly (as I'd be so embarrassed about the whole incident, I'd want to make sure it was solved).


You lost me right there, by you becoming a servant to your dog.


----------



## Pawtism

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> You lost me right there, by you becoming a servant to your dog.


They call it a service dog team for a reason. If someone with a wheelchair has their tire flat, they're supposed to know they need to get it some air. If my service dog is sick, I'm supposed to know I need to not have her working. If your car is knocking, you're supposed to know you need to get maintenance done. We're all servants of our own tools.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver

Pawtism said:


> They call it a service dog team for a reason. If someone with a wheelchair has their tire flat, they're supposed to know they need to get it some air. If my service dog is sick, I'm supposed to know I need to not have her working. If your car is knocking, you're supposed to know you need to get maintenance done. We're all servants of our own tools.


I don't say No to any dog, but I'm thinking about getting one of these, since ya'll get those phony certificates and harnesses online. I think my next cleaning fee will cover the cost of it.


----------



## Pawtism

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> I don't say No to any dog, but I'm thinking about getting one of these, since ya'll get those phony certificates and harnesses online. I think my next cleaning fee will cover the cost of it.


If you want to punish the fakers, I'll help you however I can (I'm sure I hate them even more than you do).

I know a handler up in the frozen north that has something like that for their dog, and little boots and everything, it's actually pretty cool (or warm rather hehe). I asked about the rear end of it and they said it has a trap door thing that velcros on and off for bathroom breaks. Kinda crazy, but I guess up north it's cold enough they need that.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver

I gave a blind lady a ride a week or so ago. She was in her thirties and had a white walking stick with a red tip. I say she has more balls than all the ones that can't get around without a dog. She owns her own house, so there is no reason why she can't have a seeing-eye dog.


----------



## Pawtism

Service dogs aren't a one size fits all kind of a thing. Perhaps she prefers the white cane (that what they call those walking sticks) to a dog. Some people do. They use the sound of the tapping and the feel. It's a skill for sure (one that not everyone shares). Some people say it's better than a dog though.

Here is a list of a few of the reasons:
http://serotalk.com/2015/03/18/5-reasons-why-guide-dogs-are-a-terrible-idea/

It's one of those things where only you could choose which of those is better (and you'd probably have to be in their shoes, IE blind, to make that choice).


----------



## Steve4516

EcoboostMKS said:


> You sure about that? Where did you read or hear that because that pretty much contradicts what the law says. You're not confusing emotional support dog with psychiatric service dog, right? Emotional support dogs typically do not get any special privileges that someone's pet wouldn't get.
> 
> A person's psychiatric issues have to be so severe that they're unable to function on a minimal level without a specific task performed by the dog to be considered a psychiatric service dog. A dog that's there to help comfort someone deal with social anxiety is not a service dog.





EcoboostMKS said:


> You sure about that? Where did you read or hear that because that pretty much contradicts what the law says. You're not confusing emotional support dog with psychiatric service dog, right? Emotional support dogs typically do not get any special privileges that someone's pet wouldn't get.
> 
> A person's psychiatric issues have to be so severe that they're unable to function on a minimal level without a specific task performed by the dog to be considered a psychiatric service dog. A dog that's there to help comfort someone deal with social anxiety is not a service dog.


I sincerely hope Uber does not require you to take ESA'S Where state law doesn't require it. That would essentially mean you'd have to take any dog. You have no idea how frustrating this is when I get an Uber or an Airbnb. People are Leary. I don't blame them.

You are a little off the mark on Psych Service dogs. The dog has to mitigate a disability. I CAN go into a store at 5 pm when there are a lot of people around. However, the wrong set of circumstances can set me off and I end up creating a scene. I have had to be taken to the hospital a few times. I do not think my Psychiatrist would use the term minimally functional to describey limitations. But this is not the reason for my post.

I post on these threads because unless Uber is saying you don't have protection under the ADA, you do have certain remedies.
If someone asserts their dog is a service dog, PLEASE ask them to name a task they perform. Providing comfort is not a task. Unless Uber has some screwed up rules you should be allowed to refuse service. More often than not a person with a fake Service dog will not be able to give a sufficient answer.

Somewhere on the thread there is a driver who stated he or she would charge me a cleaning fee if my dog were in his car. This is a non-issue. A service dog must be under control at all times. My dog must be at my feet when in your car. If a dog gets in your car and gets up on the seat you should ask the owner to control their dog. If they cannot get the dog sitting quietly on the floor the dog is not in control. You can refuse service.

Phony service dogs are popping up all over the place. I would ask that you PLEASE deny service to anyone whose is not in compliance with what I outlined. Folks like me with legitimate service animals need your help.


----------



## RealServiceDogs

Just felt the need to give props to the drivers in Brooklyn NY who, as of late, have been amazing about the fact that I (a person with seizures who otherwise does not look disabled) require my dog to also get in their cars.

Regardless of your guidelines - *no one with a real service dog will be offended if you ask what task the dog performs.*

Avoid sounding like you've already assumed they are lying if you can, it is hurtful to be forced to justify your need for a service dog but it is heartwarming to hear someone asking the appropriate question. 
It shows that you took the time to know how to appropriately address your question and* anyone with a real service dog will not be flustered by this question as it is literaly the most basic and essential rule to public interaction. *
***Note that if the individual is having difficulty speaking or is deaf you should just let them in, some individuals with service dogs have motor control issues that manifest in speech difficulties. *

*Instant 5 star rating to anyone who, even if uncertain or hesitant, asks the correct questions, you may be frusturated, but try and put yourself into their shoes, having a service dog is amazing and has given me independence but I would rather not have one. I would rather be normal and feel safe on my own, I would rather not be judged and stared at. *


*DO not ASK WHY SOMEONE NEEDS A DOG. Ask Only about the Task or Tasks the dog performs. *
*DO not ask what is wrong with someone. (Really I've been asked this a lot)*
-I avoid the subway to avoid those questions!

*That is why the tasks performed question is so essential*. I can tell you my dog is a medical alert dog without being forced to talk about seizures, which, in an ironic and truly annoying twist of fate, can trigger seizures.

If they say medical alert dog it could be anything from allergy detection for people who become incredibly sick when they encounter things like wheat, soy, and all sorts of obscure things. In that case the dog may also have a sturdy handle as many of my cohorts with allergy problems severe enough that they require a dog, have difficulty with stability. 

Tasks- If they answer "Medical Alert" that is all they are required to say. 

A medical alert dog can alert for diabetes, all types as it can smell the blood sugar changes.
A medical alert dog can alert for seizures or other neurological conditions, sometimes this even allows the handler to take preventitive steps, medications, and or actions, like taking an uber to get the heck out of times square and get home. 

*Don't ask to see the dogs ID if they are clearly wearing a vest. The most "real" looking ID cards CAN be bought online. ****no one is happy about this except the fakers and they honestly will mess up at the what task does your dog perform test, then maybe ask for identification.

*SEAT PROTECTION TIP:*
Don't want the dog on the seat when they exit? Make room for the dog to turn around when they need to get out of the car, put the passenger seat forward! Easy solution and any dog well trained and calm can turn around if there is room on the floor.

_Please note that a service dog who is not calm may in fact be doing it's job, especially if you are told the dog is a medical alert dog. _

Lastly please know that *we are sorry for the dog hair*, the breeds that work best at certain tasks are labradors and they do shed and we feel bad about it. A friend of mine who is an uber driver in LA told me he keeps a cordless vaccuum cleaner charged and in the back of his high end car. (if interested the Bissel Pet Hair Eraser 1782 Handheld Vaccuum - Bagless) is the absolute best, has front powered spinner that really pick up dog hair and stays charged and functional for over an hour of non stop use, and it usually takes a minute for the high powered front rolling brushes to take up most anything, also great on crumbs, and all other dry messes. Make sure its the green and black one (Cordless) not the pink one. (Not cordless)
(They do not pay me but they should considering I praise their product daily) 

Also a lint roller is an awesome thing to have, for anything the vac misses. 

And if you pick someone up right away you can apologize for the hair if it's bad or they comment on it, and let them know the last passenger was accompanied by their service dog. 

Also, we may act like we don't notice the dog hair, its not to be cold about it, its just that we literally see god hair everywhere we go so its our norm.

I once had a driver follow me down the street and honk at me, he shouted at me "Do you think I want to pick up after your dog hair?" and other much less polite things.
I'd been working all day and just wanted to take my dog to the park so he could get some exercise and then go home and collapse.
He harrassed me down the street until I turned to him, face red with tears and frusturation and sobbed back "Do you think I want to be disabled? I'm sorry I've inconvienced you, I'm sorry I can't prevent my dog from shedding but I try, I brush him an I bathe him and I try but I am just trying to survive the only way I know how."

I share this conversation not because it was a moment of shaming this man, but because in that moment we locked eyes, and saw each other as human. He got out of the car and offered me a box of tissues. The entire ride he had been glaring at me through the rear view window, judging, assuming I was not disabled and was one of those who would take advantage of the laws, because I do not look disabled.

But when he handed me a tissue and we nodded at each other it was as though all that had come before was no longer between us. We understood each other as human beings trying our best to get by.

If you've read all of this please, remember we are all trying to be okay and live our lives. Uber sees more service dogs than most companies because we need you. We cannot drive, when I go home to NJ to visit family Uber is the only thing that keeps me sane and gives me the ability to get out of the house and take a break from tension. 

Uber is a service which truly helps people with disabilities because one of the most problematic issues centered around disability is mobility. Sure I can walk fine, but I would never get behind the wheel with seizures. Know that while we may seem frusturated or frazzled we are also thankful, and if our attitude is bad it is most likely not about you, the world can seem an unwelcoming place, our bodies can be the cause of so much difficulty, suffering and pain and when they are welcomed into your car, with basic human decensy, we can unclench our jaws, let the tension and fear of rejection for the next period of travel melt away.

Thank you to the Drivers in Brooklyn and NYC who, this spring, have been nothing but delightful, kind, and at the very least understanding. A little bit of understanding goes such a long way.

And again sorry about the dog hair we literally cannot control that. (Lint Rollers and cordless pet hair eraser vaccuums are how we deal, and may help you.)

Also I would so put my dog in that suit thing, real service dogs accept costumes and weird clothes begrudgingly but willingly because their vest is part of their job, but dude, their faces shed, and also If you pet my dog he will shed in your car more. So if you ignore the dont pet me sign, more hair for you.

Also, until they have any medical intervention other than what is essentially a lobotomy, to fix the kind of seizures I have, I will need a dog. And while I love my dog, I hate that I have to get a second service dog in a year when mine retires to be a house dog because I hate being the girl with the dog. I hate being told I am overqualified for jobs I was given over the phone before they realized that I had a service dog, and I hate that people get to know something so personal about me which I cannot hide. (Helmet or dog, dog can help you prevent the seizures by smelling them and giving you time to take medication, Helmet just kind of helps with the head injuries when your brain flips an off switch you cannot control)


----------



## UberLaLa

RealServiceDogs said:


> Just felt the need to give props to the drivers in Brooklyn NY who, as of late, have been amazing about the fact that I (a person with seizures who otherwise does not look disabled) require my dog to also get in their cars.
> 
> I'd like to offer a few tips:
> 
> Regardless of your guidelines - *no one with a real service dog will be offended if you ask what task the dog performs.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Instead it shows that you took the time to know how to appropriately address the question.
> *Instant 5 star rating to anyone who, even if uncertain or hesitant, asks the correct questions.*
> 
> Don't want the dog on the seat when they exit? Make room for the dog to turn around when they need to get out of the car, put the passenger seat forward! Easy solution and any dog well trained and calm can turn around if there is room on the floor.
> 
> _Please note that a service dog who is not calm may in fact be doing it's job, especially if you are told the dog is a medical alert dog. _


Had my first ever Service Dog last night. The most calm and well behaved dog I've ever experienced. A real keeper : )

1 hour trip to LAX, too.

Ironically, I asked passenger, _What service is he trained for? _Didn't even realize the pup was coming with...


----------



## RealServiceDogs

Steve4516 said:


> I sincerely hope Uber does not require you to take ESA'S Where state law doesn't require it. That would essentially mean you'd have to take any dog. You have no idea how frustrating this is when I get an Uber or an Airbnb. People are Leary. I don't blame them.
> 
> You are a little off the mark on Psych Service dogs. The dog has to mitigate a disability. I CAN go into a store at 5 pm when there are a lot of people around. However, the wrong set of circumstances can set me off and I end up creating a scene. I have had to be taken to the hospital a few times. I do not think my Psychiatrist would use the term minimally functional to describey limitations. But this is not the reason for my post.
> 
> I post on these threads because unless Uber is saying you don't have protection under the ADA, you do have certain remedies.
> If someone asserts their dog is a service dog, PLEASE ask them to name a task they perform. Providing comfort is not a task. Unless Uber has some screwed up rules you should be allowed to refuse service. More often than not a person with a fake Service dog will not be able to give a sufficient answer.
> 
> Somewhere on the thread there is a driver who stated he or she would charge me a cleaning fee if my dog were in his car. This is a non-issue. A service dog must be under control at all times. My dog must be at my feet when in your car. If a dog gets in your car and gets up on the seat you should ask the owner to control their dog. If they cannot get the dog sitting quietly on the floor the dog is not in control. You can refuse service.
> 
> Phony service dogs are popping up all over the place. I would ask that you PLEASE deny service to anyone whose is not in compliance with what I outlined. Folks like me with legitimate service animals need your help.


SO true to all of this. I think service dog owners need to meet up and discuss a way to dissuade fakers in a Loud and Shaming way. Not my usual style but seriously if one more person comes up to me and tells me they bought a vest so they could bring their dog out too I'm going to... do nothing because its probably going to happen today or tomorrow. But I am going to tell them to please stop abusing the rights of disabled people. I was going to say throw a chair but im not very violent in general and its crowded in NY.

Also see my note about the dog on seats thing. My labrador sometimes has a hard time getting out of tight spaces, like the nyc taxi's which he fits at my feet in but if we have to go out the same side we entered he cannot possibly turn around without getting on the seat. Also service dogs nails should never be sharp. I mean they use their paws to alert us to all kinds of things, if they were sharp we would be scratched up!



UberLaLa said:


> Had my first ever Service Dog last night. The most calm and well behaved dog I've ever experienced. A real keeper : )
> 
> 1 hour trip to LAX, too.
> 
> Ironically, I asked passenger, _What service is he trained for? _Didn't even realize the pup was coming with...


People like you make the world a better place. Also I love deadpool so I may be biased.


----------



## Mrinspctrman

Wow. I am astounded at the ignorance of people in this forum. Yesterday spoke to Uber to make multiple complaints about refusal to accept a service animal. Thankfully, Uber generally sides with the passenger. I've personally gotten multiple drivers deactivated. They deserved it and if you posted in here, ESPECIALLY the OP, I will be more than happy to help deactivate your account for discrimination. Uber drivers are usually pretty nice but then there is scumlike you OP.



elelegido said:


> Exactly. No training is required for a dog to just be there with the person, so it doesn't qualify.


Read up on the ADA. Psychiatric service animals, duh.


----------



## SuzeCB

Mrinspctrman said:


> Wow. I am astounded at the ignorance of people in this forum. Yesterday spoke to Uber to make multiple complaints about refusal to accept a service animal. Thankfully, Uber generally sides with the passenger. I've personally gotten multiple drivers deactivated. They deserved it and if you posted in here, ESPECIALLY the OP, I will be more than happy to help deactivate your account for discrimination. Uber drivers are usually pretty nice but then there is scumlike you OP.
> 
> Read up on the ADA. Psychiatric service animals, duh.


Psychiatric service animals are trained to perform specific tasks to Aid the disabled person with their disability. They are not simply Comfort animals. That would be an emotional support animal, and is not covered under the ADA.

If the animal is a psychiatric support service animals, the person will be able to identify one specific task. If the person is unable to do that, then the dog is not covered under the ADA. And then, of course, there are the behavioral issues to be considered. Before service animals are even trained for any specific tasks, they have to pass a public access test. If they can't pass this test, there's no way they can be ever considered a service animal, no matter how much comfort a psychiatrically disabled person gets from them.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Mrinspctrman said:


> Wow. I am astounded at the ignorance of people in this forum. Yesterday spoke to Uber to make multiple complaints about refusal to accept a service animal. Thankfully, Uber generally sides with the passenger. I've personally gotten multiple drivers deactivated. They deserved it and if you posted in here, ESPECIALLY the OP, I will be more than happy to help deactivate your account for discrimination. Uber drivers are usually pretty nice but then there is scumlike you OP.


Please explain exactly why the OP is "_scumlike_" in his post (from Nov 2015).
It appears to me that he followed the law and policy as prescribed.

Sidenote:
You are of course free to post your own opinion here and disagree with others. You are not free to call others derogatory names because you disagree with them - well, actually for any reason. Everyone is reminded to keep it civil, please.


----------



## Seadiver58

elelegido said:


> Had another woman present herself curbside today trying to pass off her little lap dog as a service animal. She walked over to the car carrying one of those trembling/shaking little Chihuahua-type rat dogs. Hell no!
> 
> I tell her I do not take non-service dogs.
> 
> - "This _is_ a service dog"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "Huh?"
> - "What tasks has it been trained to do?"
> - "To sit on my lap?"
> - "What other tasks?"
> - "To say hello"
> (((wtf??)))
> - "That is not a genuine service dog"
> 
> Aaaannnd Ride Denied.
> 
> Remember folks, the ADA allows service providers like us to ask what tasks Mutley has been trained to perform. They don't spell it out as such, but the reason they allow us to ask this is to help us filter out the BS artists from genuine service dog owners.
> 
> The ADA service dog rules exist to protect the rights of disabled people to have their service dogs with them at all times. Not so that Millenial Millie can force a driver to transport little Trixibelle across town.
> 
> Another tip - the regulations require service dogs to be restrained in public for safety with either a harness or a leash. Chances are, Millennial lap dogs presented curbside will not be leashed, so you can also use this if applicable as justification for ride denial based on safety.


No ADA allows u to ask for the svc dog id that they and.the.handler wear but in no way are u allowed to ask what they are trained to perform. Your damn lucky your not being sued by now. Reason is that breaks the boundry of privacy and the persons medical privact. And...And... before u lose your shit and.rampage. I am speaking from both sides of the.fence. My wife has.a.service dog and has had a couple over the years. Very knowledgable on the issue.


----------



## UberLaLa

Seadiver58 said:


> No ADA allows u to ask for the svc dog id that they and.the.handler wear but in no way are u allowed to ask what they are trained to perform. Your damn lucky your not being sued by now. Reason is that breaks the boundry of privacy and the persons medical privact. And...And... before u lose your shit and.rampage. I am speaking from both sides of the.fence. My wife has.a.service dog and has had a couple over the years. Very knowledgable on the issue.


Well, I will just leave this here...not to contradict you or your wife (clearly more knowledgable than the ADA)

https://www.*ADA*.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html


----------



## steveK2016

Seadiver58 said:


> No ADA allows u to ask for the svc dog id that they and.the.handler wear but in no way are u allowed to ask what they are trained to perform. Your damn lucky your not being sued by now. Reason is that breaks the boundry of privacy and the persons medical privact. And...And... before u lose your shit and.rampage. I am speaking from both sides of the.fence. My wife has.a.service dog and has had a couple over the years. Very knowledgable on the issue.


So knowledgeable that you fell for the Service Dog registry online scammers that gave you a fake, none official ID and vest for $150 . How do we know its fake? Because there is no such thing as a federal ID or registry database for service animals or their handlers.


----------



## 404NofFound

If you have a dashcam you could turn in people who are abusing the support animal law. Right?

Btw. The law and Uber are two different things. Uber has their own policies. They don't ask pax for proof. They deactivate you.


----------



## steveK2016

404NofFound said:


> If you have a dashcam you could turn in people who are abusing the support animal law. Right?
> 
> Btw. The law and Uber are two different things. Uber has their own policies. They don't ask pax for proof. They deactivate you.


There is no guideline, for drivers or otherwise, on who to report fake service dogs to. You can call the police, but they may be rather annoyed at being called out for something like this, which will also tie you up from continuing to earn with another rider.

As far as turning video into Uber, they dont care, but it may save you from permanent deactivation. You may still get a 48 hour unpaid vacation out of it.

Uber has guidelines that reflect ADA and even advises you to ask those two questions.

https://accessibility.uber.com/service-animal-policy/



> *What is a Service Animal?*
> A service animal is an animal that is trained to work or perform tasks for an individual with a disability.
> 
> The law provides that there are only two questions that a driver-partner may ask to confirm that a rider's animal is a service animal: (1) Is the animal required because of a disability? And, (2) What work or task has the animal been trained to perform? The driver-partner may not request that the rider present documentation proving that the rider's animal is a service animal.


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## 404NofFound

steveK2016 said:


> There is no guideline, for drivers or otherwise, on who to report fake service dogs to. You can call the police, but they may be rather annoyed at being called out for something like this, which will also tie you up from continuing to earn with another rider.
> 
> As far as turning video into Uber, they dont care, but it may save you from permanent deactivation. You may still get a 48 hour unpaid vacation out of it.
> 
> Uber has guidelines that reflect ADA and even advises you to ask those two questions.
> 
> https://accessibility.uber.com/service-animal-policy/


Not impressed with the Uber link
The pax can lie.


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## NUBER-LE

I take the damn dogs and request a cleaning fee for "poop" and hair XD


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## KellyC

Seadiver58 said:


> No ADA allows u to ask for the svc dog id that they and.the.handler wear but in no way are u allowed to ask what they are trained to perform. Your damn lucky your not being sued by now. Reason is that breaks the boundry of privacy and the persons medical privact. And...And... before u lose your shit and.rampage. I am speaking from both sides of the.fence. My wife has.a.service dog and has had a couple over the years. Very knowledgable on the issue.


So what task is your wife's dog trained to perform?


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## GreatGooglyMoogly

NUBER-LE said:


> I take the damn dogs and request a cleaning fee for "poop" and hair XD


And if it's a fake claim you are in violation of the ADA.


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## steveK2016

404NofFound said:


> Not impressed with the Uber link
> The pax can lie.


You said they dont ask for proof, Uber clearly shows they recommend it with word for word from ADA language.

They will deactivate you, for a minimum of 24-48 hours. Thats standard. There OP has successfully fought deactivation with dash cam video of him askingthe two questions and the pax saying emotional support. He was temporarly deactivated, offered video in compliance with Uber policy and ADA regulation, doubt they watched it and he was reinstated.



GreatGooglyMoogly said:


> And if it's a fake claim you are in violation of the ADA.


Not necessarily. In the agreement with the federation of the blind, they agreed that after 2 cleanup reports, they would charge the pax. Business are allowed to charge for cleanup if they would charge the same for non-service animal related mess, which they do. A hotel has built in revenue to account for basic cleanup like vacuum, mopping and dusting, laundry etc so a little dog hair isnt enough to charge them extra for cleaning. An uber ride does not include any level of cleaning service, so any mess can be charged.

Uber Will pay most dog hair cleanup request. It might be small like $25-50 but better than nothing .They may not charge the pax, but they do pay. Many on these forums have gotten paid for dog hair, whether that pax took the hit or not is unknown.


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## Workforfood

While we are required to not enquire and must accept All"service" animals,if there is any damage or soilage of the vehicle we should be entitled to a cleaning or repair fee. If the animal is not properly restricted the pax should be cited for safety.
Over time this may help bring some sanity and responsibility to this issue.


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## wontgetfooledagain

Back to what another reply suggested- if you see someone with a yappy lap dog, just drive away. Problem solved.


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