# Lyft Could Be Better Than Uber But Refuses To Try



## vesolehome (Aug 2, 2015)

I know, I know, ride sharing sucks. Low pay, some crappy people. But we all do it still. So since we do, why not maximize. This is where Lyft missed the mark over and over. 

I drive X/XL and Lyft/Lyft Plus. I had a ping on Lyft. Get to pick up. Five drunks pile in but had ordered a Lyft ride only. My experience with Uber in the rare times this happens had me handle the same way. Let them in, drive them, laugh at their stupid conversation, drop them and move on. 

Now, with Uber, you can in-app report more than 4 entered the car and they automatically adjust to an XL and you are paid for what you do. 

I learned, not with Lyft. I email them as there is no option. They email back they can't adjust. That I should have told them to cancel and request a Lyft Plus. 

Lyft, really? 5 drunks in the car and I'm suppose to now refuse the ride, tell them to cancel (If I cancel it works against my acceptance rating with Lyft and I'm penalized) and tell them to request Lyft Plus? 

I never thought Uber would be better than Lyft, but it is. They have better features in their app, they have more options to make money for their drivers and they are just a smarter run company. 

Lyft could be better, but just doesn't want to try.


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## Are you serious (Jul 16, 2016)

Very true, I've driven both uber and Lyft. Lyft is by far the preferred method for pax. Then again, as a driver. There was nothing surging or benefitting the driver at all to drive Lyft. It's pathetic. Less rides, uber had some promo for the core and airport, Lyft...flat rate bullshit. 

I work harder for Lyft and get less than from the uber slobs. Pretty sure panhandling would pay more than either of these disasters.


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## Luber4.9 (Nov 25, 2015)

vesolehome said:


> I know, I know, ride sharing sucks. Low pay, some crappy people. But we all do it still. So since we do, why not maximize. This is where Lyft missed the mark over and over.
> 
> I drive X/XL and Lyft/Lyft Plus. I had a ping on Lyft. Get to pick up. Five drunks pile in but had ordered a Lyft ride only. My experience with Uber in the rare times this happens had me handle the same way. Let them in, drive them, laugh at their stupid conversation, drop them and move on.
> 
> ...


Lyft is the kiddie app that doesn't show the Prime Time rate.

Uber app is for adult drivers.

Lyft is for kids.

Refusing to change that to Plus also proves that Lyft coddles the Pax to NO END.

That's just pathetic. Straight up. Shame on you, Lyft. Seriously, grow up.


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## Sharkb8 (Jun 30, 2016)

vesolehome said:


> I know, I know, ride sharing sucks. Low pay, some crappy people. But we all do it still. So since we do, why not maximize. This is where Lyft missed the mark over and over.
> 
> I drive X/XL and Lyft/Lyft Plus. I had a ping on Lyft. Get to pick up. Five drunks pile in but had ordered a Lyft ride only. My experience with Uber in the rare times this happens had me handle the same way. Let them in, drive them, laugh at their stupid conversation, drop them and move on.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% and allow me to add to your list. Don't I DESERVE "Primetime pay on requests that are 15+ minutes away? "Plus" qualified vehicles are more expensive to drive 15 mins to pick up a Lyft/LyftLine request!!! So, I don't! Instead, I go on UberX & get a 1.5x surge ride @ 20% commission.

I pay 8% more commission to Uber so that I can take XL only requests. I don't like paying Uber more but I don't have to weed through short money losing trips. GET WITH IT LYFT!


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## vesolehome (Aug 2, 2015)

Luber4.9 said:


> Lyft is the kiddie app that doesn't show the Prime Time rate.
> 
> Uber app is for adult drivers.
> 
> ...


I thought it would be just a given Lyft would change the ride to Lyft Plus. Same as Uber. As a result, Lyft has now become second choice for me as a driver, leaving one more driver off the road for them and one less Lyft Plus driver available. No way am I asking PAX to cancel and reorder once I realize they have 5 or 6 people.


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## Sharkb8 (Jun 30, 2016)

vesolehome said:


> I thought it would be just a given Lyft would change the ride to Lyft Plus. Same as Uber. As a result, Lyft has now become second choice for me as a driver, leaving one more driver off the road for them and one less Lyft Plus driver available. No way am I asking PAX to cancel and reorder once I realize they have 5 or 6 people.


I'm almost positive that a requester can switch to Plus from reg Lyft without canceling. I'm not stating a fact. It's unfortunate that Lyft doesn't take Plus drivers & passengers seriously. It's a much bigger market than people think.


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## macchiato (Sep 29, 2015)

I've had to cancel a few when they requested regular but needed a Plus. It was an awkward conversation.

"Sorry guys I can take you."

"Why not?"

"You have more than 4 in the car."

"Oh but we're only going a short distance."

(More the reason why I don't want take you)

"Sorry..out of the car."

A lot of shouting.

"Oh you don't want our money! You're racist! Okay let's get out of this car guys! This guy doesn't want our money!"

Everyone get out of the car in what seems like 5 minutes of bickering and shouting at the Lyft driver.

So a little background of this request. Request comes in for a Plus ride so I start heading to the location. I get a cancel. Fine..whatever..it happens a lot on Lyft. I get another request from the same person at the same location but this time it's a regular request. So I think "okay maybe she accidentally requested a Plus the first time. I go to the bar and hit arrive. I wait about a minute and requester gets in the front seat and tells me to wait for her friends as they are paying their tab. Sure..still thinking it'll be a few more. Then have 5 people trying to get in and that's when I speak up.

It's not a racial thing, but apparently since they were black, she thinks I didn't want to take them.


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## macchiato (Sep 29, 2015)

I think the main reason why they don't have the option to change the ride after the ride is over is because drivers have to prove that it was more than 4. They don't want to deal with the hassle of driver claiming one thing when they have no recourse to prove or disprove otherwise (unless driver has a camera). 

I'd like to see this when we have driverless cars and pax tries to fit as many people in the car. Who's going to check?


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

True that

I only do Lyft since it allows me to set Uber to Select-only, and keep my opt-down and my premium service on separate accounts with separate ratings.

Which also allows me to not give a FF about anything whatsoever that occurs in Lyft rides


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## vesolehome (Aug 2, 2015)

macchiato said:


> I think the main reason why they don't have the option to change the ride after the ride is over is because drivers have to prove that it was more than 4. They don't want to deal with the hassle of driver claiming one thing when they have no recourse to prove or disprove otherwise (unless driver has a camera).
> 
> I'd like to see this when we have driverless cars and pax tries to fit as many people in the car. Who's going to check?


I thought about that too, but Uber seems to get it done ok. I've had about 6 or 7 times when I've had to use the in-app adjustment that I did an XL ride under an X request. Each time, Uber, without question, changed the price and sent me an email thanking me for letting them know. 
I guess if I were taking advantage of it, the PAX would all be complaining. I bet most don't even notice as it's usually only a few dollars more. But in my case with Lyft, I was on a 50% Prime Time and drove 15 miles. I should be compensated for driving Lyft Plus and I shouldn't have to argue with the rider.

Lyft is dead wrong for not allowing their "partners" to get proper pay. I have no real reason to turn on the Lyft app anyway, unless there's a guarantee hour I'm working and they're not offering guarantees in my market anymore so screw them.


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## CatchyMusicLover (Sep 18, 2015)

macchiato said:


> I'd like to see this when we have driverless cars and pax tries to fit as many people in the car. Who's going to check?


I would imagine driverless cars will not even move unless all passengers have their seatbelts on. Which might mean you have you a put a seatbelt on that heavy backback you have with you


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

CatchyMusicLover said:


> I would imagine driverless cars will not even move unless all passengers have their seatbelts on. Which might mean you have you a put a seatbelt on that heavy backback you have with you


That's been a thing since like 2006, at least on bimmers....well, they Do move, but the chime gets progressively louder and NEVER stops.


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## Oscarthegrouch (Jun 14, 2016)

Thanks for posting this. I drive xl/plus as well and have to have Uber change x to xl at least once a week. I haven't had it happen on Lyft yet, but always wondered how they handled it. Now I know.


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## vesolehome (Aug 2, 2015)

Oscarthegrouch said:


> Thanks for posting this. I drive xl/plus as well and have to have Uber change x to xl at least once a week. I haven't had it happen on Lyft yet, but always wondered how they handled it. Now I know.


Yup, I thought Lyft would change it too but now I know they won't. Lyft could be good but just is too lazy or refuses to pay attention to drivers needs. 
In my market, Detroit, we have 25 minute wait times, sometimes no drivers during the day. GM gives Lyft $500 Million and you can't get a ride around their HQ at times. It's because Lyft isn't taking care of their drivers. This is why they won't survive.


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## fairsailing (May 16, 2016)

Lately in this market Lyft is sending out 2-3 texts per day to drivers saying... drive because it is raining..., or drive to the concert blah, blah, and during the day any surge is exceptionally fleeting, and you chase them at your peril not knowing until drop off if you have even captured one. With the Fall they have started to add in hourly guarantees, but no morning rush, very few evening rushes, mostly just the grave yard shifts. I am glad to see Lyft at least somewhat desperate for drivers, the "Temporary" rate reduction from last February still remains here. $0.77 or $0.82 per mile after commission with a non PDB qualified car. So more like $0.50 per mile with dead miles and any realistic beat your car up and replace number factored in. Rather than raise rates they simply offer the $500 signup bonus for newbies for a couple of weeks. It is an open question whether or not the pool will continue to fill with newbies at these horrible pay rates. We will see.

If Lyft can't separate themselves from Uber as a higher quality and a bit more expensive choice, which they appear unwilling to do, their days are numbered.


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## Luber4.9 (Nov 25, 2015)

fairsailing said:


> If Lyft can't separate themselves from Uber as a higher quality and a bit more expensive choice, which they appear unwilling to do, their days are numbered.


It appears that way. Lyft had a golden opportunity to leverage their brand and make a consistently better experience than their competitors.

They chose to fight Uber tooth for tooth.

Lyft appears to be asleep at the wheel, and focused on their next corporate marketing alliance rather than focusing on retaining the best drivers that would have been providing the best service for their platform.

They are currently eroding the once-great-strength of their brand. This is what happens when you only hire friends of friends. Their culture is sadly, and uncessarily insular.

A lot of tech companies in the BA are like this, sadly. It is not uncommon. If I had been in charge at Lyft 18 months ago they would have 65-70% market share in SF instead of 30% by now.


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## macchiato (Sep 29, 2015)

It's blatantly obvious corporate doesn't drive so they have no idea what the current climate of being a driver really is. 

I'm sure they might have in the past, but pretty sure they don't anymore.


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## fairsailing (May 16, 2016)

Luber4.9 said:


> A lot of tech companies in the BA are like this, sadly. It is not uncommon. If I had been in charge at Lyft 18 months ago they would have 65-70% market share in SF instead of 30% by now.


I agree, it is common and it is not easy to manage the incredible growth rates that successful startups have, the buyout option is often the exit strategy to growing larger, far more often than it has to be.

I have well over a thousand rides a 5 star rating almost the entire time and Lyft is doing everything it can to keep me off the road. It is small things too:

- Like the low acceptance nag screen that appears constantly, even after taking a month off. 
- Or the fact that they eliminated destination info until arrival, making me miss more than one personal meeting because I refuse to drive away from a customer who has the unfortunate situation of not wanting to go in the direction I need to.
- Even eliminating the pickup address before acceptance, and making the pre-acceptance map so small that I can't read it, often I am only bidding off of time to pickup.
- Asking drivers to drive 25 minutes for 3 or 4 dollars take home rather than telling the pax that no drivers are available.
- Lately the 3 or 4 texts per day urging me to go out and drive even when I have not driven for a couple of weeks.
- Not knowing when you accept a ride what your pay rate will be, finding out only at drop off if Primetime was on or not.
- Or the not so small thing as the 40% drop in the per mile pay rate since I started last October in my market and I think many others.

They have reasons why they are doing the above, but it creates almost by inference the idea that we don't trust our drivers and certainly for good drivers, a less than pleasant working experience.

Pay better, hire better and create a better product. There has been an increasing divergence between the words of the founders, and what we actually experience on the street as drivers.


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## Sharkb8 (Jun 30, 2016)

vesolehome said:


> Yup, I thought Lyft would change it too but now I know they won't. Lyft could be good but just is too lazy or refuses to pay attention to drivers needs.
> In my market, Detroit, we have 25 minute wait times, sometimes no drivers during the day. GM gives Lyft $500 Million and you can't get a ride around their HQ at times. It's because Lyft isn't taking care of their drivers. This is why they won't survive.


Thanks for your "On Location" info about GM & Lyft, I've been curious . I always wonder what GM plans to do with SideCar. They bought the licensing rights or the app. I forgot the details.


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## DSLRreel (Jan 28, 2016)

Lyft doesn't have the investment capital uber does. Lyft also doesn't have the market share uber does. Lyft will be slower at coming out with features due to funds and will generally follow what uber does so it doesn't lose market share.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

Uber is putting the screws to lyft with their incentives now. They smell blood. Now we've got expanded guarantee hours every week day and a bonus for hitting ride totals. Meanwhile crickets from lyft. If they want people to drive lyft only they need to double the incentive Uber is doing.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

DSLRreel said:


> I hear a lot of low IQ whining in here. Lyft doesn't have the investment capital uber does. Lyft also doesn't have the market share uber does. Lyft will be slower at coming out with features due to funds and will generally follow what uber does so it doesn't lose market share.


It's a billion dollar company running an app, some servers & cc processing. It's one thing to try compete on bonuses; at least make the damn app better. Being able to contact support in app, paying every toll ALWAYS, fare zones, etc etc.
None of that requires millions.


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## DSLRreel (Jan 28, 2016)

dirtylee said:


> It's a billion dollar company running an app, some servers & cc processing. It's one thing to try compete on bonuses; at least make the damn app better. Being able to contact support in app, paying every toll ALWAYS, fare zones, etc etc.
> None of that requires millions.


Write lyft an email or compete.


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## vesolehome (Aug 2, 2015)

DSLRreel said:


> I hear a lot of low IQ whining in here. Lyft doesn't have the investment capital uber does. Lyft also doesn't have the market share uber does. Lyft will be slower at coming out with features due to funds and will generally follow what uber does so it doesn't lose market share.


Lyft should be able to focus on the markets they're in and make an impact. They have enough capital for that. What do you think they should be doing with the capital? Marketing for more drivers or improving their platform? I would say both, but improving their platform should take precedents. But you're IQ has you deduct less money and less market share means a lesser company. That's the thinking Lyft must share with you and that's why they are where they are. Companies have become better companies with a lot more overhead, a lot more expenses and a lot more costs with a fraction of what Lyft has. You're saying they don't have the intuitiveness to get their app together and their infrastructure in-line with the markets their in? Put you at the helm and they might as well pack up now and go home. Oh, but you have a much higher IQ than all of us.


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## vesolehome (Aug 2, 2015)

DSLRreel said:


> How do you know what enough capital is and how do you know they have equal or more than enough? You're, at best, a porch worker looking in from outside the plantation. Run lyft and stop whining like little girls on a stupid form.
> 
> Lyft has to react to Uber's moves. The last time lyft didn't adjust it's prices when uber lowered them, Lyft lost more market share.


Lyft is a tech company. If they can't design their app to keep up with Uber, then they will lose. I have no problem that Lyft is first for your between Lyft and Uber. For me, they are second choice because they run their company as a second choice company. Best of luck to you and I hope you continue to hit your PDB!


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## Tired of this (Apr 10, 2015)

Uber screws up so much that Lyft could have provided the KO or at least made Uber really nervous, but instead they choose to copy Uber in a race to the bottom. If Lyft management is reading this, here is how to counter Uber:

1. Raise rates to slightly ABOVE Uber. This might seem counter-intuitive at first, but most customers do not know the base/per minute/per mile charges for rides. Only drivers are in tune with these figures since they make or break our day. Riders choose Uber because of brand recognition and generally has more cars.They only thing they really look at is the surge/prime time factor and ***** about that.

Do you really think that by charging $0.77 instead of $0.80 a mile, riders will choose you? Almost every market that Lyft is in, Uber is also in, and a good number of drivers work for both companies. This will make the Uber system unstable, unreliable as drivers will prioritize Lyft requests over Uber. Customers will follow if Uber becomes unreliable.

2. Advertise and encourage tipping. This is a particularly sore spot with Uber and Lyft can communicate this to customers rather than just remind drivers that they get tips even as Uber has turned Lyft riders into tightwads as well. This costs Lyft next to nothing but again encourages drivers to prioritize Lyft over Uber. Notice how most pizza chains encourage customers to take care of their drivers. Also would be a tremendous PR win for Lyft with drivers. Bonus to have a pre-tipping feature for long distance pick ups.

3. Develop an army of high quality drivers. Many of my Uber customers have complained that drivers do not speak English and do not know the city. Lyft being smaller can afford to do a more effective hiring screening and training program/test for new drivers. Most customers will gladly pay $2-$3 more for competent drivers.

4. Ditch the rating system or at least don't follow Uber's model. In fact, can make hilarious videos highlighting how drivers can get absolutely ****ed over by the ratings. The star system does not guarantee or encourage a quality customer experience. I would say a good majority of rides fall into one of these categories.

5-stars = informed riders receiving a good ride
4-stars = uninformed riders receiving a good ride
1-star = informed riders receiving a good ride but are vindictive because driver refuses to break law or follow unreasonable demands

5. Hire me as a strategy consultant. 100% serious. I am somewhat knowledgeable about Uber's operations and have some decent strategies to counteract rather than copy their measures and I do not see Uber driving as a long-term career.


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## excel2345 (Dec 14, 2015)

fairsailing said:


> I agree, it is common and it is not easy to manage the incredible growth rates that successful startups have, the buyout option is often the exit strategy to growing larger, far more often than it has to be.
> 
> I have well over a thousand rides a 5 star rating almost the entire time and Lyft is doing everything it can to keep me off the road. It is small things too:
> 
> ...


I completely agree with fairsailing and would like to add a couple more things:
-Even after accepting a ping Lyft doesn't tell you what town you are going to, up here there are many small towns and they all have a main street, elm street Maple street, etc. Feel a little silly asking the passenger "what town are you going to, I know the street address though."
-Uber pays drivers that do airport drops $3.50 on top of the fare, that pays the toll to get back into Boston. Lyft doesn't.
-Lyft charges tolls at the easypass rate, uber charges tolls at the commercial rate. If Lyft misses a toll they ask for a copy of the receipt, don't have one with an easy pass. I don't even have an easypass, it's bad enough letting Uber and Lyft know everything I do, don't need to let the State know too! So every time I go through a toll on a Lyft I actually lose money.
-I know fairsailing said asking drivers to go 25 minutes is wrong, I routinely get pings of 35 minutes or more, my record was 57 minutes for a pickup, Lyft says right on their website that the average trip is 2-3 miles, just doesn't make sense to go so bye bye acceptance rate. I don't even think about making any promotion any longer.


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## Jimmy Bernat (Apr 12, 2016)

I started out with lyft and also said I didn't need uber that lyft kept me busy enough. Then Uber offered a large sign on bonus did the rides then learned about select and select only so I did the number of X rides to get qualified for select and started doing Lyft enough to hit 20% PDB and uber select only.
Then uber had a 20% PDB offer every week for almost 3 months and during that time they hooked me. Now with all the uber in app features to benefit drivers the only thing lyft has going for it is their PDB and in app tipping. 
But after logging my tips from both I earn more tips per ride on uber thrn lyft. I don't get as many tips but my Uber tips are rarely under $5 and I get a lot of 10 and $20 cash tips. Lyft is a lot of $1 tips.
I also average around $20 a ride on uber net an don't $8 A ride on lyft (including the 20% PDB and tips)
So for me I'm pretty much done with lyft

All lyft needs to do to win back drivers, is
Show surge on requests
Show address on requests 
Show destination after request again 
Get Lyft Premium in every market 
Allow Plus and Premium only profiles 
Make a working destination filter


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

Honestly, if Lyft would compensate the driver for a pickup that is over 10 minutes away, and they offered competitive hourly guarantees, I might drive more for Lyft.


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## fairsailing (May 16, 2016)

Here's what Bill Gurley, a partner at Benchmark Capital and one of Uber's most well-known board members, said:

"We have a large number of competitors who are very deep-pocketed, who have decided that their primary form of competition is just price. There are intense subsidy battles going on all over world. Those companies, when they approach investors, tell them, ‘Uber’s going to go public, and then they’re going to have to be profitable, and then we’re really going to sneak up on them with these discounts.’"

So what is Lyft's end game in the "he who has the biggest war chest wins" battle? Is it really wait for the Uber IPO? Good luck. If Lyft doesn't come back in the next month or so with a rate increase or at least decent weekly guarantees, they are essentially saying we think we have hit our high water mark, we are going to sell, and horde our cash until we do.


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## Transportador (Sep 15, 2015)

Lyft has just raised rates in Silicon Valley. It's not big, but they are doing it. Lyft is not giving up yet.


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## 4736353377384555736 (Aug 27, 2016)

I agree with all the above. The fact that people here have better ideas than the directors of a multi-billion dollar company says a great deal about how poorly these giant corporations are run.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

^^^ or maybe those ideas are just not cost effective or potentially difficult to implement.


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