# Oil change places are just flat-out refusing to use conventional oil.



## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

went to Walmart today and they refused to give me their $19.98 "pit crew special" because they "aren't allowed" to put conventional oil in my 2013 corolla.

Went to another place nearby, where I had a coupon for a $29.99 conventional oil change, and they, similarly refused and insisted that they could only perform a $72.99 synthetic oil change.

Obviously, they don't make much doing conventional oil changes, and don't want to perform them, but i guess they get enough people to cave in the moment to make it worth turning away those that don't.

I've had my car for years, with no engine problems, using only conventional oil


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

It’s most likely about, once again, limiting their potential liability in case something happens to the engine when the manufacturer actually recommends synthetic.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

The 2013 Toyota Corolla doesn't require a synthetic oil. Conventional oil is fine, it just needs to be changed more frequently which in the end will wind up costing about the same.

I'd go back to Walmart and complain about a bait and switch to the store general manager.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

observer said:


> The 2013 Toyota Corolla doesn't require a synthetic oil. Conventional oil is fine, it just needs to be changed more frequently which in the end will wind up costing about the same.
> 
> I'd go back to Walmart and complain about a bait and switch to the store general manager.


It may technically not require synthetic oil but Toyota specifies Ow-20 fully synthetic only. Legal liability thats all that matters to shops.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

What is the stupid deal here ?
Walmart sells oil. Go buy the oil . 5 QUARTS 15 dollars full synth any wright. But the filter .
Tell walmart you want to bring your own oil. They will charge 10 bucks labor . 
If not call around.
Who buys regular oil today ??? Full synth is cheaper from walmart


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> It may technically not require synthetic oil but Toyota specifies Ow-20 fully synthetic only. Legal liability thats all that matters to shops.


Not according to Toyota.

https://www.toyotaofunioncity.com/2013-toyota-corolla-oil-change.htm









But like I said, in the end the cost is the same. One synthetic oil change is about the same as two regular oil changes because regular oil needs to be changed more often.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

observer said:


> Not according to Toyota.


Might not. But usually it easier for the shop to CYA. Just in case. Sure, could also be bait-and-switch, so I guess @NauticalWheeler found two shops in a row who are doing the same. &#129335;‍♂


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

This is from the 2013 Toyota Corolla user's manual LOL









These were other articles that popped up in my search


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Technically it all dino oil or conventional oil that is just highly refined. Almost all Full Syn is just highly refined hydrocracked oil and is on the group 3 out of 5. Group 4 and then Group 5 engine oil are 1st PAO base and then Ester base that are the real Full Syn. Which is offered on mobil 1 top of their range oil and high mileage for the PAO and top of the range $$$ Redline general motor oil and Amsoil for the Ester base stuff. How you go 20k to 25k between oil changes is with real syn without any harm to the engine.

I tend to buy PAO euro spec oil and mix it with redline at a 1/3 part or even 1/2 part as I'm not going to be spending $$$ to go straight redline. 99% of the time people are fine using group 3 oil that are just highly refined dino oil to such an extent it considered full syn. However oil companies can label anything really full syn if it have enough of a ratio. I can't remember how much at the top of my head maybe 1/4? The rest can be group 1 mix and group 2 mix into it and you are really only getting 1/4 of the highly refined goodies in the Full Syn. Not all Full syn are made equal and not all Full syn have the base oils that are true syn too.

Usually it 25% to 10% of the oil make up would be additives to give it different properties and help extend the life of the oil put into it too. Additives are expensive too.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

observer said:


> Not according to Toyota.
> 
> https://www.toyotaofunioncity.com/2013-toyota-corolla-oil-change.htm
> View attachment 517754
> ...


Actually it says refer to owners manual. Here is what the 2013 owners manual says










The manual is available online in pdf format. Don't be lazy, don't be hard headed get the synthetic oil change.

Also according to the manual if the shop put more conventional oil in car, they would be liable for an engine failure.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Actually it says refer to owners manual. Here is what the 2013 owners manual says
> 
> View attachment 517785
> 
> ...


Am I missing something or where does the manual say it has to be synthetic?

I agree, I would just go synthetic because over time it costs the same anyway and you save a trip or two to the oil change place.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

observer said:


> Am I missing something or where does the manual say it has to be synthetic?
> 
> I agree, I would just go synthetic because over time it costs the same anyway and you save a trip or two to the oil change place.


SAE OW-20 is only synthetic


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> SAE OW-20 is only synthetic


Ahhhhhh, gotcha. Good to know.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Immoralized said:


> Amsoil for the Ester base stuff. Its How you go 20k to 25k between oil changes is with real syn without any harm to the engine.


:thumbup:

Find out what's right for your car or truck.
https://www.amsoil.com/lookup/auto-and-light-truck/
.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> SAE OW-20 is only synthetic


I'm going to have to check what my Prius needs. I've had it four years and haven't done an oil change yet. I think it's coming up on 7,500 miles now.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

observer said:


> I'm going to have to check what my Prius needs. I've had it four years and haven't done an oil change yet. I think it's coming up on 7,500 miles now.


Wait what???  You really should still change oil at least once a year.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

TomTheAnt said:


> Wait what???  You really should still change oil at least once a year.


Yea, I don't drive it long distance much. My son just drove it up to SF. That should help the engine a little.

Lol, not that I'm religious about oil changes anyway. I had a van that I drove 90K miles without an oil change. I wanted to see what would happen. I gave up and sold it and it was still running great.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

His fine for up to 2 years. As long as it not sitting there for months doing no mileage because oil turn acidic/sludge "happens faster in cheaper oils as they don't put in enough additives that counteract it." inside the engine when it not circulating and been used.

Mobil did a grandma test which is the ultimate torture test for the engine oil. 4 years no oil change because grandma never reached the mileage so she didn't think it be worth spending the $$$ to get the car serviced as she on the pension. Short trips and start/stop driving. The oil came back as still oil. Now in saying that it was one of mobil better oils not the cheap stuff. Regular dino oil would of sludge up and seized the engine up.

Which is the risk of using lower quality oils is that they will tend to have shorter cycles where they can warm up and cool down before turning into sludge and of course shorter shelf life & storage life once opened. Top tiered oils last up to 5 years and regular tiered oils once bottled even last only up to 2 years which is shorten again depending on how long it been sitting on the shelf before sale.
















That what happens to oil when it no longer oil and turns into a thick sludge and stops the engine. This is why people change their oils so they don't have to folk out a grand or two cleaning all that sludge out of the engine.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> This is from the 2013 Toyota Corolla user's manual LOL


That is almost word for word what my Mitsubishi owner's manual says. It's like they just copied Toyota's owner's manual.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

If you buy the oil, Walmart labor will be close to 20$.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

NauticalWheeler said:


> *Oil change places are just flat-out refusing to use conventional oil.*


Sounds fair. I flat out refuse to use oil change places.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Stuff like this may not kill your engine on the spot but shorten its lifespan.

My mother regularly do stuff like this with her cars. ALL of them needed engine replacements/rebuilds once they were high mileage.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

I would never go to Walmart for car service. I also will never go to Jiffy Lube or any quick change artist. I have seen incredible disasters from idiots at those places. Jiffy Lube employees are fast food dropouts. Too stupid to cut it at McDonalds.


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## Driving With A Purpose (Jul 28, 2020)

There was a scandal perhaps a couple years ago where a shop (Houston area, I think) was charging for synthetic oil but providing the traditional type. They even put it in synthetic containers IIRC. 

What a mess. Not sure how I could be sure about the quality of what is being provided.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

And if your vehicle requires a ZR or VR rated tire a good tire shop will not install a HR or SR rated tire. It is just CYA at that point.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

NauticalWheeler said:


> went to Walmart today and they refused to give me their $19.98 "pit crew special" because they "aren't allowed" to put conventional oil in my 2013 corolla.
> 
> Went to another place nearby, where I had a coupon for a $29.99 conventional oil change, and they, similarly refused and insisted that they could only perform a $72.99 synthetic oil change.
> 
> ...


I pump my own oil out into a gallon jug.
Put Walmart Synthetic oil in for 22 bucks


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## KevinJohnson (Mar 23, 2020)

wallae said:


> I pump my own oil out into a gallon jug.
> Put Walmart Synthetic oil in for 22 bucks


Or buy a box wrench to fit the drain plug for $4.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Same as they do on inboard boats where you can't get underneath



KevinJohnson said:


> Or buy a box wrench to fit the drain plug for $4.


I can't crawl underneath my car it's too low


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## KevinJohnson (Mar 23, 2020)

wallae said:


> Same as they do on inboard boats where you can't get underneath
> 
> 
> I can't crawl underneath my car it's too low


Then how do you change out the oil filter?


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

KevinJohnson said:


> Then how do you change out the oil filter?


Open the hood
Unscrew the oil filter top
Drop a new cartridge in
Screw top down


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

:roflmao: I believe canister type filters are making a come back.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

NauticalWheeler said:


> went to Walmart today and they refused to give me their $19.98 "pit crew special" because they "aren't allowed" to put conventional oil in my 2013 corolla.
> 
> Went to another place nearby, where I had a coupon for a $29.99 conventional oil change, and they, similarly refused and insisted that they could only perform a $72.99 synthetic oil change.
> 
> ...


Yes, time to buy some jackstands and changing your own oil. However, keep in mind that synthetic oil last a lot longer than non-synthetic oil so you would only need to do the oil change every 10000 miles or every 6 months.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Yes, time to buy some jackstands and changing your own oil. However, keep in mind that synthetic oil last a lot longer than non-synthetic oil so you would only need to do the oil change every 10000 miles or every 6 months.


You can, and I have driven up a curb to get 2 wheels up leaning the car into the drain plug. Then crawl under.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

wallae said:


> You can, and I have driven up a curb to get 2 wheels up leaning the car into the drain plug. Then crawl under.


Yupp, I just did that the other day for my sons car.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> SAE OW-20 is only synthetic


Well, I guess technically there is synthetic _blend_ available also.


Immoralized said:


> This is why people change their oils


Changing oil is over-rated.
The cab companies I've worked at never changed the oil.
Only added oil as needed.
Cabs have gone 300-400,000+ miles.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Well, I guess technically there is synthetic _blend_ available also.
> 
> Changing oil is over-rated.
> The cab companies I've worked at never changed the oil.
> ...


I think changing oil was more of a necessity back in the day when engines were made with lower tolerances and you were lucky if you made it to 100K miles before a rebuild.

Oil and fuel quality is also much better.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Well, I guess technically there is synthetic _blend_ available also.
> 
> Changing oil is over-rated.
> The cab companies I've worked at never changed the oil.
> ...


That all well and true but after all of the engine oil additives get used up it just acid circulating the engine if it doesn't end up turning into sludge 1st. Oil gets thinner as well with all the additives that keep it within spec goes out the window so effectively you got like water thin oil going around and in general just messes everything up. A lot more blow by into the cat converter that'll probably end up shortening it life drastically as well and it is a high ticket item.

A lot of stuff can go wrong with engine oil that isn't change and the simple act of changing the oil often is the best preventative to all the things that can go wrong which are a lot more costly to repair then spending ten or twenty dollars on an oil change. The other option spending thousands. What a lot of people forget is oil acts as lubricating the engine and transferring the heat out of the engine as well. It does a piss poor job of it when it severely degraded or turn into sludge.

I wouldn't run straight dino oil group 1 longer then what stated on the service manual because I know how quickly those oil separates & lose their consistency. I've even stopped using group 3 spec oils which are 95% of the full syn labelled oil as I've witness it separating with just 18 000 miles. For my peace of mine I've been using group 4 & 5 spec oils with longer drain individuals of 20k-30k & haven't had any motor dramas. I don't want to chance ruining a good motor because really that looking at saving pennies on the dollar. Sure you saving a couple of pennies short runs but you'll be spending serious dollars if it all goes to crap.

More often then not a lot of people believe what you believe and then they are the ones picking up the pieces at the mechanic workshop forking over thousands of dollars in repair bills. It great if you like your mechanic that much they'll gladly charge you. I guess what I'm trying to say is you want engine oil to stay like it engine oil. You can roll the dice on that one but the dice are loaded against you.

" *Oil* oxidation causes *acidic* byproducts to form. High acid levels can indicate excessive *oil* oxidation or depletion of the *oil* additives and can lead to corrosion of the internal components. By monitoring the acid level, the *oil* can be changed before any damage occurs.

If you don't *change* your *oil* it looses lubrication and *no* lubrication means more friction. that will allow metal-to-metal contact and causes big problems. Most likely the connecting rod will lock *up* and your *engine* will be destroyed. Also sludge build *up* will form in the *engine* and cause the *motor* to run sloppy. "


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> This is from the 2013 Toyota Corolla user's manual LOL
> View attachment 517770
> 
> 
> ...


Now that you mention it Walmart refused (at first anyhow) to put the oil I wanted in, 5-30 until I showed them my manual that said it's acceptable over 0 degrees. 5-20 was their default


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Immoralized said:


> That all well and true but after all of the engine oil additives get used up it just acid circulating the engine if it doesn't end up turning into sludge 1st. Oil gets thinner as well with all the additives that keep it within spec goes out the window so effectively you got like water thin oil going around and in general just messes everything up. A lot more blow by into the cat converter that'll probably end up shortening it life drastically as well and it is a high ticket item.


You keep saying it will reduce the life, while I'm telling you I've seen first hand that the cabs are getting 300K, some 400K+ miles. How much more life do you want?
(Again, I'm talking about in a cab setting)


Immoralized said:


> A lot of stuff can go wrong with engine oil that isn't change and the simple act of changing the oil often is the best preventative to all the things that can go wrong which are a lot more costly to repair then spending ten or twenty dollars on an oil change. The other option spending thousands.


My full time Uber car had a trade in value of $2500.
Do you really think I'm going to do an oil change every month?
Not necessary and not money smart.


Immoralized said:


> What a lot of people forget is oil acts as lubricating the engine


Really? A lot of people forget that?


Immoralized said:


> If you don't *change* your *oil* it looses lubrication and *no* lubrication means more friction.


Nobody is saying 'no' lubrication.
Anything in there is going to lubricate, even water, but I don't recommend that.
Cab owner had 1 rule and that's to keep the oil level topped up.
Running a cab 24/7, oil will burn off especially high mileage cabs, so you add some as needed.
You think they're going to change the oil and filter every 2 weeks?


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> You keep saying it will reduce the life, while I'm telling you I've seen first hand that the cabs are getting 300K, some 400K+ miles. How much more life do you want?
> (Again, I'm talking about in a cab setting)
> My full time Uber car had a trade in value of $2500.
> Do you really think I'm going to do an oil change every month?
> ...


Yeah some cabs might be "fine" in your words running the same oil forever and a day and in other cars that might result in premature engine failure. Because someone might actually take what you say as gospel and go on ahead and never change their engine oil again and end up with a wrecked engine. I'm going to stay far away from what you are recommending just in case someone does end up reading what you say seriously and that resulting in their car been destroyed.

To the best of my knowledge no engine oil exist on the face of the planet that can survive 300 000 miles or 400 000 miles without changing.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

Immoralized said:


> That all well and true but after all of the engine oil additives get used up it just acid circulating the engine if it doesn't end up turning into sludge 1st. Oil gets thinner as well with all the additives that keep it within spec goes out the window so effectively you got like water thin oil going around and in general just messes everything up...


Which is it?

It thickens to sludge or it thins to water?

Can't really do both now can it?


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Which is it?
> 
> It thickens to sludge or it thins to water?
> 
> Can't really do both now can it?


I was curious myself, but then realized I didn't really want to hear the answer.



Immoralized said:


> Yeah some cabs might be "fine" in your words running the same oil forever and a day and in other cars that might result in premature engine failure. Because someone might actually take what you say as gospel and go on ahead and never change their engine oil again and end up with a wrecked engine. I'm going to stay far away from what you are recommending just in case someone does end up reading what you say seriously and that resulting in their car been destroyed.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge no engine oil exist on the face of the planet that can survive 300 000 miles or 400 000 miles without changing.


First of all, I'm not "recommending" anything.
Unlike you, I'm not trying to convince people one way or the other, and seemingly shilling for the oil companies to unnecessarily change the oil so frequently.

Instead, I shared first hand experience, qualified it with reference to the taxi industry.
And because of that, my view of oil changes have changed over the years.
Again, do whatever you want. Change your oil every day if you like.

You seem very sure of your theories and conclusions, not receptive to thinking outside the box, but that's ok.
I'm sorry that you don't believe my experience, and that you misinterpreted it to be "gospel" in all situations.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

I'd venture to guess the cabs you speak of used enough oil in say six months that it was nearly a complete change. Then the filter becomes an issue.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Which is it?
> 
> It thickens to sludge or it thins to water?
> 
> Can't really do both now can it?


Depending on the oil and motor mate.



Taxi2Uber said:


> I was curious myself, but then realized I didn't really want to hear the answer.
> 
> First of all, I'm not "recommending" anything.
> Unlike you, I'm not trying to convince people one way or the other, and seemingly shilling for the oil companies to unnecessarily change the oil so frequently.
> ...


Hey all for thinking outside the box even did my oil test with group 3 syn oil and ran with it for 70 000 miles on it. The oil and motor ran rough and had the consistency of water. Burn over a quarter of oil every 4000 miles.

I was willing to wreck the motor to fulfilling my own curiosity and found that it pretty much was all downhill after 30 000 miles and that when it started burning oil at that point before it didn't lose a drop between changes.

Did a tear down of the engine everything was still within spec for a vehicle that travelled 130 000 miles but had noticeable wear. That particular vehicle only had 4 oil changes in it life and sold it for pennies on the dollar at 135 000 miles. Mechanically sound and everything still working in it like radio Air-conditioning and heater.

Learning from what I learnt and how crap the motor was running and the extra wear and tear placed on the motor i would not be doing it again.

My own oil services is about 30 000 miles but I am using group 4 and group 5 motor oils with another addictive and that worked for me for the past half million miles. The motor running like the day it bought with minimum engine wear.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Which is it?
> 
> It thickens to sludge or it thins to water?
> 
> Can't really do both now can it?


A mixture can do both. A quick search reveals the typical motor oil contains the base oil, viscosity improvement additives, detergents, dispersants, wear protectors, and 3% other components. Over time, the heavier components will sink and turn to sludge while the lighter components will rise and become thinner. How long does it take, at what pressure or temperature to separate? I have no idea.

Some people are very serious about motor oil. bobistheoilguy.com has a forum. blackstone-labs.com will test oil samples:


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

wallae said:


> You can, and I have driven up a curb to get 2 wheels up leaning the car into the drain plug. Then crawl under.


I can crawl under my cars to do an oil change without any jackstands or driving up curbs. Granted, I'm skinny and my chest rubs against the bottom of the car.


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## tmart (Oct 30, 2016)

just got to go to the garages in the hood man , they will do it no questions asked and you'll get that cheap oil change


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

Immoralized said:


> Depending on the oil and motor mate.
> 
> 
> Hey all for thinking outside the box even did my oil test with group 3 syn oil and ran with it for 70 000 miles on it. The oil and motor ran rough and had the consistency of water. Burn over a quarter of oil every 4000 miles.
> ...


Haven't had an oil change in 200,000 miles.


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## calimade (Apr 13, 2017)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Which is it?
> 
> It thickens to sludge or it thins to water?
> 
> Can't really do both now can it?


Actually it can be. One part becomes a jello like sludge. The byproduct liquid from that is thin as hell


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## UberApfel (Jul 5, 2020)

NauticalWheeler said:


> went to Walmart today and they refused to give me their $19.98 "pit crew special" because they "aren't allowed" to put conventional oil in my 2013 corolla.
> 
> Went to another place nearby, where I had a coupon for a $29.99 conventional oil change, and they, similarly refused and insisted that they could only perform a $72.99 synthetic oil change.
> 
> ...


A lot of auto service places are flat out refusing to put dino/conventional oil in your car for 4 reasons...


 your engine manufacturer requires synthetic
it voids the warranty if you don't use synthetic
you should probably be using synthetic oil anyway unless your gaskets are shot
if you really cared about saving money, you'd change the oil yourself
Also, if you knew anything about lubrication, you'd want synthetic.


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## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

UberApfel said:


> A lot of auto service places are flat out refusing to put dino/conventional oil in your car for 4 reasons...
> 
> 
> your engine manufacturer requires synthetic
> ...


Reason 5 - one is $20-25 and one is $70


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