# Uber is going to stop paying drivers surge.



## aJoe

They will continue to charge pax surge, but pay drivers base pay. that's why you drive into surge areas and it disappears. Driver will agree to driver for base pay. If you only want to drive for surge rates, keep holding your breath or quit. Uber "needs the cash", not the drivers. you are an ant that they can squash whenever they want.

Uber says I'm done with Surge-io he treats me like a rag doll.


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## Jo3030

Great partnership!


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## tohunt4me

aJoe said:


> They will continue to charge pax surge, but pay drivers base pay. that's why you drive into surge areas and it disappears. Driver will agree to driver for base pay. If you only want to drive for surge rates, keep holding your breath or quit. Uber "needs the cash", not the drivers. you are an ant that they can squash whenever they want.
> 
> Uber says I'm done with Surge-io he treats me like a rag doll.


Bye bye uber.
You almost had it.


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## Jo3030

The biggest problem I have w/ all of this is that the passengers are gonna get charged xxx, we only get yyy, meanwhile the passengers are gonna rate us not only on the ride but the 'value they got for the ride', so we're in direct line to get rated poorly because of passengers getting hosed.

I know ratings don't pay bills but ultimately, we're the ones that face the brunt of all complaints even though we're not fully in control of pricing, etc.


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## SEAL Team 5

Jo3030 said:


> The biggest problem I have w/ all of this is that the passengers are gonna get charged xxx, we only get yyy,


Uber X drivers have been getting yyy since June '14. And let's not forget our basic binomial equations from our 9th grade Algebra class;

2(yyy) + yyy = normal cab fare


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## Bpr2

Hmm, you drive into an area that needs more drivers while online. Of course the surge goes down. Always go offline and go straight to the middle of the surge and go online to hopefully benifit.


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## aJoe

Jo3030 said:


> The biggest problem I have w/ all of this is that the passengers are gonna get charged xxx, we only get yyy, meanwhile the passengers are gonna rate us not only on the ride but the 'value they got for the ride', so we're in direct line to get rated poorly because of passengers getting hosed.
> 
> I know ratings don't pay bills but ultimately, we're the ones that face the brunt of all complaints even though we're not fully in control of pricing, etc.


Uber is too stupid to care that it's bad pax are getting good drivers fired.



Bpr2 said:


> Hmm, you drive into an area that needs more drivers while online. Of course the surge goes down. Always go offline and go straight to the middle of the surge and go online to hopefully benifit.


How would any new driver know this unless they read the forums or talk to other Uber drivers that know the scam. plus I'm sure some areas have high surges and high demand and you can drive into it and get a surge fare, maybe not so much now but when there were less ants I would bet.


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## 1rightwinger

aJoe said:


> They will continue to charge pax surge, but pay drivers base pay. that's why you drive into surge areas and it disappears. Driver will agree to driver for base pay. If you only want to drive for surge rates, keep holding your breath or quit. Uber "needs the cash", not the drivers. you are an ant that they can squash whenever they want.
> 
> Uber says I'm done with Surge-io he treats me like a rag doll.


They can't stop paying surge. I guess it depends on market. But there are two reasons that good drivers drive for uber at the low base rate: 1. Surge, 2. Potential tips. I make decent money when on surge rides and on tips. If surge pay goes away I will not drive uber because the pay will be too low. Same with many other drivers.


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## aJoe

1rightwinger said:


> They can't stop paying surge. I guess it depends on market. But there are two reasons that good drivers drive for uber at the low base rate: 1. Surge, 2. Potential tips. I make decent money when on surge rides and on tips. If surge pay goes away I will not drive uber because the pay will be too low. Same with many other drivers.


It remains to be seen. No ant is values with Uber, a good driver is any driver that makes Uber money, You are an ant to travis not a human. They will only pay surge as long as they can't get drivers to do the rides and then as they get new drivers they will end it of cut it back or charge 4x surge and pay the driver 2X or only have surge for special events or concerts. There are drivers driving all over the country for really low rates. Orlando driver get 65 cents a mile and 11 cents a minute and drive for that.


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## 1rightwinger

That's what I meant when I said it depends on the market. Maybe there are places where there's a ton of drivers and enough drivers to drive at a lower price. But in markets where they can't get enough drivers and there's consistent surges right now, obviously this surge is what helps keep the driver pay up and keeps drivers driving. If there was no surge there would be less drivers bottom line and then they wouldn't have enough drivers for the demand. Sure they might charge a four-time surge and only pay a driver 2 x surge but it sounds like they are doing that as it is right now. Last night I got a 7 x surge. I'm not sure if the riderr got charged 9/12/15x surge who knows. I got paid 7 times the base rate. Whatever it is it has to be enough to let people make good enough money to keep driving. Otherwise less drivers.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

1rightwinger said:


> They can't stop paying surge. I guess it depends on market. But there are two reasons that good drivers drive for uber at the low base rate: 1. Surge, 2. Potential tips. I make decent money when on surge rides and on tips. If surge pay goes away I will not drive uber because the pay will be too low. Same with many other drivers.


I said the SAME THING when the uber rates were cut to 90c a mile...

Now the rates are .65 a mile...

I just don't get these drivers anymore.


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## 1rightwinger

That is part of my point. The rate in my town is $0.75 per mile. I would not drive constantly for $0.75 per mile. But there are enough surges that my actual rate is much higher than that because I choose to drive mostly there in Surge times. Sure I drive during non surge times too sometimes but it all averages out and I average much more than $0.75 per mile. The rate could be $0.30 per mile in as long as there were enough surges that would be fine in theory. A lot of people are pointing out that with the new agreement Uber could take away the surge or charge a higher Surge and pay the driver or a lower surge. I think with upfront pricing there has been some of that going on. I have seen surge rides were the guys mentioned the riDE cost 25 bucks. And I might have it show the gross as $21. Whatever. Like I said on Saturday night I accepted a 7x surge. I don't know what the rider paid but for some reason uber offered to pay me 7 times and normal rate which was great. That night I had several other surge rides too with many in the twos and threes and 4x. It was a really good night for me. That's why I drive part time. If uber took that away or lowered it by quite a bit Then I won't be driving. Same with a lot of other good drivers I would suspect. Only bad drivers will be left. Whenever uber plays their games and reduces driver pay in whatever hidden mysterious way that they do it they lower their level of service by forcing good drivers with good vehicles off the road because it is not worth it to them at that point. And I really don't think they can do that. They're ridership would suffer over time if that were to happen. Yes like I said before it depends on the market. I know there are markets where it is a low rate and it rarely surges and people don't tip. Some people live in a really good Market others suck. Read these forms there's all kinds of people making statements and showing screenshots where they go out and make several hundred dollars driving on a night. That's what I'm talking about. Then there's a lot of places where people are driving and constantly losing money and have a new vehicle or an Uber lease or whatever. That really sucks for them, I feel bad for those drivers. Bottom line is overall I don't really trust Uber and they're obviously a shady company. But I don't think the new agreement is set up to make a bunch of drastic changes to lower pay. I think it is just a cover their asses because of the whole upfront pricing scheme and if you read a lot about that there are a lot of people that have studied it a lot and say that it would not hold up in court what they've been doing. So now they're covering themselves. But they're not just going to go out and drop pay somehow or they lose a bunch of drivers.


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## Veju

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> I said the SAME THING when the uber rates were cut to 90c a mile...
> 
> Now the rates are .65 a mile...
> 
> I just don't get these drivers anymore.


We're still getting .95 in srq. The Orlando drivers are treated as serf peasants.


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## mannyhagisavas1

Yesterday I received a trip request with a 1.5x surge but when I ended the ride I wasn't paid for it. Uber claims that there was not a surge at the time

For all new drivers you need to understand that Uber's algorithms will send you good jobs in the beginning, but it will die out when they need to send good jobs to newer drivers


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## Dredrummond

U gotta see it then look when the u accept the ride I'll make a Pax get out if they are going far no surge


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## Nailah

mannyhagisavas1 said:


> Yesterday I received a trip request with a 1.5x surge but when I ended the ride I wasn't paid for it. Uber claims that there was not a surge at the time
> 
> For all new drivers you need to understand that Uber's algorithms will send you good jobs in the beginning, but it will die out when they need to send good jobs to newer drivers


That's a really good point. They give new drivers the really good rides get the excited and hooked. Once you get a taste of that "instant pay" money you'll work all kinds of hours and search near and far to get a good long ride. The system is setup to turn you into an ant. I'm not complaining though, as long I'm making more than my expenses I'm good to go.


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## Coachman

Nailah said:


> That's a really good point. They give new drivers the really good rides get the excited and hooked. Once you get a taste of that "instant pay" money you'll work all kinds of hours and search near and far to get a good long ride. The system is setup to turn you into an ant. I'm not complaining though, as long I'm making more than my expenses I'm good to go.


There's never been any evidence at all that new drivers get better rides. That's one of many myths on this board. People repeat them so it must be true, right?


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## Nailah

Coachman said:


> There's never been any evidence at all that new drivers get better rides. That's one of many myths on this board. People repeat them so it must be true, right?


Im always a fan of a conspiracy theory!


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## reaperducer

The drivers don't get any of the surge money in my market anymore. All surge cash goes to Uber, and we just get our 65¢/mile, 11¢/minute. The only time we can make any extra is when there is a Boost happening.










Surge vs. Boost: Surge is the shades of orange and red. Boost is the area outlined in red.

It was never a good idea to chase surges. Now that they don't pay any more than a regular ride, but make the passenger more angry at the driver, I don't bother. There's no incentive.


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## Dredrummond

If there was no surge I wouldn't even drive 

Surge is the difference between a 9 dollar and a 29 dollar ride I'm not trying to drive all day for 11 an hour not worth it


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## ibeam23

mannyhagisavas1 said:


> Yesterday I received a trip request with a 1.5x surge but when I ended the ride I wasn't paid for it. Uber claims that there was not a surge at the time
> 
> For all new drivers you need to understand that Uber's algorithms will send you good jobs in the beginning, but it will die out when they need to send good jobs to newer drivers


I ALWAYS take a screenshot of every ping with Surge. That way you have proof when füber tries to screw you.


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## Brett090

Is it really all that bad? I still land a decent pay with no surge. I think you people are exaggerating. As long as im making more than maintinence and gas im fine, and worse comes to worse Lyft pays better so i keep it on


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## ibeam23

ibeam23 said:


> I ALWAYS take a screenshot of every ping with Surge. That way you have proof when füber tries to screw you.


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## Hollyday

Coachman said:


> There's never been any evidence at all that new drivers get better rides. That's one of many myths on this board. People repeat them so it must be true, right?


Not sure about the better rides but they do have different promos for different drivers. I picked up a pax who was an Uber driver himself. We compared promo bonuses and he was offered $85 for 65 trips when I was offered $60 for 65 trips.


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## Dredrummond

I didn't make any money when I first so that's not true I stopped driving for a whole year


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## charmer37

mannyhagisavas1 said:


> Yesterday I received a trip request with a 1.5x surge but when I ended the ride I wasn't paid for it. Uber claims that there was not a surge at the time
> 
> For all new drivers you need to understand that Uber's algorithms will send you good jobs in the beginning, but it will die out when they need to send good jobs to newer drivers


 That's how uber roll, New drivers get good rides and the honey moon is over get ready for bullshit rides and peanuts for pay....


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## charmer37

Dredrummond said:


> If there was no surge I wouldn't even drive
> 
> Surge is the difference between a 9 dollar and a 29 dollar ride I'm not trying to drive all day for 11 an hour not worth it


 I stopped driving a couple of moths ago because uber playing surge games and terrible boost fares that's not worth a damn to drive. ..Between over saturation and crappy rates their are huge turn overs of drivers in my market.


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## Dredrummond

charmer37 said:


> I stopped driving a couple of moths ago because uber playing surge games and terrible boost fares that's not worth a damn to drive. ..Between over saturation and crappy rates their are huge turn overs of drivers in my market.


I don't even deal with boost if u notice if your market is like detroits boost fares are very short in that same area if the fare is fare it'll surge over whatever the boost is


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## 80sDude

No surge no drive


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## Mars Troll Number 4

Brett090 said:


> Is it really all that bad? I still land a decent pay with no surge. I think you people are exaggerating. As long as im making more than maintinence and gas im fine, and worse comes to worse Lyft pays better so i keep it on


Depending on the market it IS that bad, there is a 200% difference between Orlando and NYC rates.

I'm showing the current UberX rate in Brick NJ at $1.71.

The Current uber SELECT rate for orlando matches your uberX rate.

The DIFFERENCE between what your getting for X in NJ is more than the Orlando rate.

Orlando $.71 mile

Brick NJ $1.72

That puts Orlando at just 41% of the per mile rate that you are getting. OR your rates are 2.4 TIMES higher than they are in Orlando.

So a 2.4X surge in Orlando pays out approximately what your making for a non surge in NJ.

So you very well can be making enough to easily cover everything, And your taxes are higher, because New Jersey is like that, But your not driving some magic New Jersey car that costs 240% more, and your not burning new Jersey gas that costs 240% more, and you may very well be getting more trips per hour on less miles driven as well.

Actually now that i think about it your gas might be 240% more... This is new Jersey we are talking about.. LOL


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## Side Hustle

mannyhagisavas1 said:


> Yesterday I received a trip request with a 1.5x surge but when I ended the ride I wasn't paid for it. Uber claims that there was not a surge at the time


Uber will say that surge had died at the time you picked up the driver. That's their rule. Surge at time of pick up, not at time you accept surge request. Deceitfull at best.


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## REX HAVOC

aJoe said:


> They will continue to charge pax surge, but pay drivers base pay. that's why you drive into surge areas and it disappears. Driver will agree to driver for base pay. If you only want to drive for surge rates, keep holding your breath or quit. Uber "needs the cash", not the drivers. you are an ant that they can squash whenever they want.
> 
> Uber says I'm done with Surge-io he treats me like a rag doll.


They'll always have surge for weekends, holidays,big events and when they need to cull drivers to a particular location. But the daily surge on an regular work days is most likely a thing of the past. It was replaced by boost.


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## Retired Senior

Bpr2 said:


> Hmm, you drive into an area that needs more drivers while online. Of course the surge goes down. Always go offline and go straight to the middle of the surge and go online to hopefully benifit.


I've been driving in a 2 - 3 hour surge zone in Stamford - Greenwich area, picking up Pax and have yet to see any surge payment. This is obviously bullshit. We no longer seem to get paid for surges... the only advantage to us is continual work. The Pax think that we are making a hell of a lot more than we actually are. One woman told me that, based on what she way paying for a trip from Norwalk to Brooklyn, I must be getting $125. After I dropped her off I checked.... $75... So now it seems that we are getting 1/2 of Uber's fee to the rider!


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## LA_Native

Coachman said:


> There's never been any evidence at all that new drivers get better rides. That's one of many myths on this board. People repeat them so it must be true, right?


An axiom.


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## himynameis

Driving for uber and making REAL money was always a dream. Now its time to wake up!


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## Misplacedhippie

charmer37 said:


> I stopped driving a couple of moths ago because uber playing surge games and terrible boost fares that's not worth a damn to drive. ..Between over saturation and crappy rates their are huge turn overs of drivers in my market.


Not me! I'll take $9 an hour all day long. It's better than $0 an hour. I feel blessed that I have finally found a job that I can actual do. When you have a bad back you take what you can get.


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## Dredrummond

Misplacedhippie said:


> Not me! I'll take $9 an hour all day long. It's better than $0 an hour. I feel blessed that I have finally found a job that I can actual do. When you have a bad back you take what you can get.


Your car is gonna be useless and u can't buy a new one on 9 an hour


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## Nomad

ibeam23 said:


> I ALWAYS take a screenshot of every ping with Surge.


There are apps that record your screen for long periods of time. I'm not sure what kind of memory they take up, but it might be worth looking in to instead of screen-shotting everything all the time. Just a thought. 



Brett090 said:


> As long as im making more than maintinence and gas im fine


maintenance... gas... *and depreciation*...

And actually, as long as what your making is more than those three things plus your opportunity cost of not working a job that could pay you minimum wage... well, *THEN *you're fine.


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## Imonous

Just wait until tax season.

You guys will drop like flies.


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## TheTruth...Hurts

What Uber Drivers need is a Union. They don't care about us, the real employees/Drivers.

Aren't making enough to feed your family? Tough there is another sucker out there ready to make less.

There is noooo reason that Uber needed to cut their prices sooo much less than a taxi driver. The driver should have a say in how much is in pricing. Have minimum pricing fees. Cars need upkeep. Uber shouldn't prey on drivers. Light surging, no bare minimum fares/fees, no tipping (here).

Maybe those taxi drivers/owners had it right after all. Really hard working ones made 100k/yr in NYC. see that as a do-able number as a driver?

No limit on the number of drivers that work for Uber. A union would solve all of this.

PS, not new, just back driving for a few months.... when my regular biz slows


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## Gung-Ho

Eventually they will do away with surge pay to the drivers and replace it with guaranteed boost zones thereby regulating how much they have to pay the drivers while at the same time charging customers what the true surge rate would be. They [uber/lyft] are massive data collectors and when their algorithms are perfected to predict surges at certain times and locations they will simply show them to drivers as "boost" zones.

The game is rigged by the riggers and you as drivers can't win.


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## lesh11

That would eliminate the reason for surge. Surge pricing is designed to bring more drivers into the area to meet the demand for rides. 
If drivers don't get paid surge rates, no drivers are going to show up and the riders will be frustrated. This will hurt uber.


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## Gung-Ho

lesh11 said:


> That would eliminate the reason for surge. Surge pricing is designed to bring more drivers into the area to meet the demand for rides.
> If drivers don't get paid surge rates, no drivers are going to show up and the riders will be frustrated. This will hurt uber.


What I said was they will replace surge with predetermined boost zones to lure drivers to those areas. The "boost" paid to the driver will always be less than the "surge" charged to the rider.


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## lesh11

Gung-Ho said:


> What I said was they will replace surge with predetermined boost zones to lure drivers to those areas. The "boost" paid to the driver will always be less than the "surge" charged to the rider.


Ok, that would be a bad change. We get boost zones here, but Uber pays the driver the larger of the boost, or the surge.
They "loose" money if the boost is greater than the surge.


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## RideshareSpectrum

1rightwinger said:


> They can't stop paying surge. I guess it depends on market. But there are two reasons that good drivers drive for uber at the low base rate: 1. Surge, 2. Potential tips. I make decent money when on surge rides and on tips. If surge pay goes away I will not drive uber because the pay will be too low. Same with many other drivers.


Boost is the replacement for Surge...basically they take the average surge rate in a geo fenced area for a specific hour... say 2.5x bet 5-6pm... and they offer Boost for the hour @ 1.8x to flood the area with drivers while they charge PAX 2.5-3x via Up Front pricing. The game is always charge as much as they can while paying out as little as possible.


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## UberMensch3000

I'm finding this a bit difficult to believe. There would essentially be no reason at all to not pay drivers their share of the surge. No driver would race off TO the surge, which is the actual point OF the surge in the first place


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## UberMensch3000

Dredrummond said:


> If there was no surge I wouldn't even drive
> 
> Surge is the difference between a 9 dollar and a 29 dollar ride I'm not trying to drive all day for 11 an hour not worth it


I stopped giving a shit about surge once the pax in my area caught on and just started to cxl and wait it out. Now if I happen to get a surge ping I take my time getting to them because there's a better than 90% chance it's getting cxl'd before I get anywhere near them.
*Also; Regarding Surge during boost, Uber has been and currently still is paying whichever is higher. At least they still are in my AO as of this past week


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## SpecialK8

Eventually, neither boost nor Surge will be in effect. Uber's going to ultimately wind up with a fully dynamic pricing model IMHO. It will always be based on time, location and duration and will be higher in areas of higher income, longer rides and bigger demand. They're already doing this in some markets (charging some passengers more with their estimated fare and not paying it out to the driver). 

The dynamic model is where they're going. It's good for drivers in the long run... provided they are transparent about it. Surge would be gone but you'll see higher rates in times of typical peak demand. So if you take a 6 PM rush hour ride you might make 80 percent higher fare even though there wouldn't actually be any surge.


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## pomegranite112

As a new driver i had the same rides. I felt like it was surging harder like a month ago though when i first started


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