# This is what it's like getting falsely reported on Flex.



## ashlee2004

(Spoiler alert: I win)

So I started doing Flex here and there at the end of last year. About a week ago, I opened the app, and all it displayed was a black screen with a message saying ACCOUNT DISABLED. PLEASE CHECK YOUR EMAIL FOR MORE INFORMATION. 

I check my email, and have an email from Alicia at Flex Support saying they are investigating a violation of the terms of service. I have absolutely no idea what I've done wrong, but the email says they will be in touch with more details within 24 hours. So I sit tight. 

A full week passes with zero communication from Amazon. 

I write a letter to support referencing the above email and ask for someone to give me information about why I've been deactivated. I receive an email thanking me for my inquiry and telling me someone will be contacting me within 48 hours. 

Two days later, I get a phone call from a guy named Brian with Loss Prevention. He gets two other people on the line to have a "very open and honest conversation". This phone call lasted for TWO HOURS. They asked me to start off by describing what an average block is like, so I take them through one step by step. They then spend approximately one hour playing guessing games with me, trying to get me to admit to ever having stolen a package. Which I haven't, making this the most aggravating and annoying conversation of all time. 

I finally get them to give me some info: a customer reported I came to their porch after delivering a package and took the package back with me. 20 minutes of more "describe a time you've gone to a customer's house when you shouldn't have" questions, I tell them to give me the date of the incident in question, and I'll send them screenshots of my location history in Google and let them review it and decide for themselves if I did it. 

I send them my location history for January 6th, the day in question. They determine I couldn't possibly have been stealing packages from the customer as I was over 100 miles away at that time. They tell me they'll be giving Flex a report that "our conversation went well". 

Two days later, I'm sent an email apologizing for the inconvenience, informing me that I've been reactivated, and they are giving me a $100 account adjustment for the inconvenience. 



..The saddest part about this? Such a better experience than being falsely reported for Uber.

Anyway, figured why not share the experience in case anyone else has this happen!


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## Taxi2Uber

ashlee2004 said:


> I'll send them screenshots of my location history in Google and let them review it and decide for themselves if I did it.
> 
> hey determine I couldn't possibly have been stealing packages from the customer as I was over 100 miles away at that time.


This only means _your phone_ was 100 miles away.

So what was in the package?:biggrin:


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## tohunt4me

ashlee2004 said:


> (Spoiler alert: I win)
> 
> So I started doing Flex here and there at the end of last year. About a week ago, I opened the app, and all it displayed was a black screen with a message saying ACCOUNT DISABLED. PLEASE CHECK YOUR EMAIL FOR MORE INFORMATION.
> 
> I check my email, and have an email from Alicia at Flex Support saying they are investigating a violation of the terms of service. I have absolutely no idea what I've done wrong, but the email says they will be in touch with more details within 24 hours. So I sit tight.
> 
> A full week passes with zero communication from Amazon.
> 
> I write a letter to support referencing the above email and ask for someone to give me information about why I've been deactivated. I receive an email thanking me for my inquiry and telling me someone will be contacting me within 48 hours.
> 
> Two days later, I get a phone call from a guy named Brian with Loss Prevention. He gets two other people on the line to have a "very open and honest conversation". This phone call lasted for TWO HOURS. They asked me to start off by describing what an average block is like, so I take them through one step by step. They then spend approximately one hour playing guessing games with me, trying to get me to admit to ever having stolen a package. Which I haven't, making this the most aggravating and annoying conversation of all time.
> 
> I finally get them to give me some info: a customer reported I came to their porch after delivering a package and took the package back with me. 20 minutes of more "describe a time you've gone to a customer's house when you shouldn't have" questions, I tell them to give me the date of the incident in question, and I'll send them screenshots of my location history in Google and let them review it and decide for themselves if I did it.
> 
> I send them my location history for January 6th, the day in question. They determine I couldn't possibly have been stealing packages from the customer as I was over 100 miles away at that time. They tell me they'll be giving Flex a report that "our conversation went well".
> 
> Two days later, I'm sent an email apologizing for the inconvenience, informing me that I've been reactivated, and they are giving me a $100 account adjustment for the inconvenience.
> 
> ..The saddest part about this? Such a better experience than being falsely reported for Uber.
> 
> Anyway, figured why not share the experience in case anyone else has this happen!


What of those of us who do not allow our every move to ne tracked by Google or otherApps?
Those with no location " History"?


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## 25rides7daysaweek

tohunt4me said:


> What of those of us who do not allow our every move to ne tracked by Google or otherApps?
> Those with no location " History"?


I guess you would be screwed..


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## FLKeys

Glad it worked out for you, you have way more patience than me. I would have told them to get to the point. I don't have time for those trivial games.


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## Immoralized

ashlee2004 said:


> (Spoiler alert: I win)


By that I thought you meant you really did take the guys package 20 minutes later as reported and you won by fooling the Amazon team that called you up and reactivated you :biggrin: "btw what was inside the package?"


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## AveragePerson

Taxi2Uber said:


> This only means _your phone_ was 100 miles away.
> 
> So what was in the package?:biggrin:


Extra small condom.


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## wallae

I’d like to know what happened to the people who falsely accused you


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## FLKeys

wallae said:


> I'd like to know what happened to the people who falsely accused you


Absolutely nothing.


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## ashlee2004

wallae said:


> I'd like to know what happened to the people who falsely accused you





FLKeys said:


> Absolutely nothing.


The LP dream team continually referred to it as "the customer's misunderstanding", so I can pretty much guarantee nothing happened.


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## Taxi2Uber

ashlee2004 said:


> The LP dream team continually referred to it as "the customer's misunderstanding", so I can pretty much guarantee nothing happened.


Plus a year of free Prime, for their troubles.


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## SuzeCB

FLKeys said:


> Absolutely nothing.


Why not? You were out of work for a good amount of time because of a false complaint, probably made so that the receiver could scam a free "whatever".

That's both a crime AND a civil matter. Slander and Defamation of Character on the civil side.

Small Claims court is your friend now. Sue "John/Jane Doe", outline the relationship (an Amazon customer you delivered to), and that their identity will be revealed through Discovery. Then you can subpoena Amazon for the customer's information. Yes, they WILL answer a subpoena.


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## wallae

ashlee2004 said:


> The LP dream team continually referred to it as "the customer's misunderstanding", so I can pretty much guarantee nothing happened.


Too bad you're not black
They would be in prison &#128514;


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## Gone_in_60_seconds

ashlee2004 said:


> (Spoiler alert: I win)
> 
> So I started doing Flex here and there at the end of last year. About a week ago, I opened the app, and all it displayed was a black screen with a message saying ACCOUNT DISABLED. PLEASE CHECK YOUR EMAIL FOR MORE INFORMATION.
> 
> I check my email, and have an email from Alicia at Flex Support saying they are investigating a violation of the terms of service. I have absolutely no idea what I've done wrong, but the email says they will be in touch with more details within 24 hours. So I sit tight.
> 
> A full week passes with zero communication from Amazon.
> 
> I write a letter to support referencing the above email and ask for someone to give me information about why I've been deactivated. I receive an email thanking me for my inquiry and telling me someone will be contacting me within 48 hours.
> 
> Two days later, I get a phone call from a guy named Brian with Loss Prevention. He gets two other people on the line to have a "very open and honest conversation". This phone call lasted for TWO HOURS. They asked me to start off by describing what an average block is like, so I take them through one step by step. They then spend approximately one hour playing guessing games with me, trying to get me to admit to ever having stolen a package. Which I haven't, making this the most aggravating and annoying conversation of all time.
> 
> I finally get them to give me some info: a customer reported I came to their porch after delivering a package and took the package back with me. 20 minutes of more "describe a time you've gone to a customer's house when you shouldn't have" questions, I tell them to give me the date of the incident in question, and I'll send them screenshots of my location history in Google and let them review it and decide for themselves if I did it.
> 
> I send them my location history for January 6th, the day in question. They determine I couldn't possibly have been stealing packages from the customer as I was over 100 miles away at that time. They tell me they'll be giving Flex a report that "our conversation went well".
> 
> Two days later, I'm sent an email apologizing for the inconvenience, informing me that I've been reactivated, and they are giving me a $100 account adjustment for the inconvenience.
> 
> ..The saddest part about this? Such a better experience than being falsely reported for Uber.
> 
> Anyway, figured why not share the experience in case anyone else has this happen!


don't you take a photo of the package to confirm delivery. The onus should be on the customer to prove that you stole the package. They should have video that YOU stole the package. Terrible. Customer may be trying to a free order. LOL


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## ashlee2004

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> don't you take a photo of the package to confirm delivery. The onus should be on the customer to prove that you stole the package. They should have video that YOU stole the package. Terrible. Customer may be trying to a free order. LOL


I do, and I did, and the picture was clear as day in the delivery record. The customer was claiming that I delivered the package, took a picture of it, then picked the package back up and took off with it.

My dear friend and LP extraordinaire Brian told me about 10 times on our conference call that Amazon's internal motto is that they're "obsessed with their customers" and no matter what the circumstances are they investigate every report of fraud as if it's legitimate.


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## SuzeCB

ashlee2004 said:


> I do, and I did, and the picture was clear as day in the delivery record. The customer was claiming that I delivered the package, took a picture of it, then picked the package back up and took off with it.
> 
> My dear friend and LP extraordinaire Brian told me about 10 times on our conference call that Amazon's internal motto is that they're "obsessed with their customers" and no matter what the circumstances are they investigate every report of fraud as if it's legitimate.


Which is a good thing. Now go get what you're owed by the loser customer.


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## Cvillegordo

ashlee2004 said:


> (Spoiler alert: I win)
> 
> So I started doing Flex here and there at the end of last year. About a week ago, I opened the app, and all it displayed was a black screen with a message saying ACCOUNT DISABLED. PLEASE CHECK YOUR EMAIL FOR MORE INFORMATION.
> 
> I check my email, and have an email from Alicia at Flex Support saying they are investigating a violation of the terms of service. I have absolutely no idea what I've done wrong, but the email says they will be in touch with more details within 24 hours. So I sit tight.
> 
> A full week passes with zero communication from Amazon.
> 
> I write a letter to support referencing the above email and ask for someone to give me information about why I've been deactivated. I receive an email thanking me for my inquiry and telling me someone will be contacting me within 48 hours.
> 
> Two days later, I get a phone call from a guy named Brian with Loss Prevention. He gets two other people on the line to have a "very open and honest conversation". This phone call lasted for TWO HOURS. They asked me to start off by describing what an average block is like, so I take them through one step by step. They then spend approximately one hour playing guessing games with me, trying to get me to admit to ever having stolen a package. Which I haven't, making this the most aggravating and annoying conversation of all time.
> 
> I finally get them to give me some info: a customer reported I came to their porch after delivering a package and took the package back with me. 20 minutes of more "describe a time you've gone to a customer's house when you shouldn't have" questions, I tell them to give me the date of the incident in question, and I'll send them screenshots of my location history in Google and let them review it and decide for themselves if I did it.
> 
> I send them my location history for January 6th, the day in question. They determine I couldn't possibly have been stealing packages from the customer as I was over 100 miles away at that time. They tell me they'll be giving Flex a report that "our conversation went well".
> 
> Two days later, I'm sent an email apologizing for the inconvenience, informing me that I've been reactivated, and they are giving me a $100 account adjustment for the inconvenience.
> 
> ..The saddest part about this? Such a better experience than being falsely reported for Uber.
> 
> Anyway, figured why not share the experience in case anyone else has this happen!


Sounds like the Gestapo. No thanks. But still, good outcome.


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## rideshareMN

thanks for sharing this story, and i'm glad you were reinstated; i rely now on amazon for my gig income since i stopped doing uber/lyft when the pandemic hit in March; it's scary how they just disabled your account without warning, then took forever to followup, then basically spent far too long on the phone trying to trap you into something you did not do!

it seems particularly odd that your phone was 100 miles away from the alleged incident -- that makes zero sense -- how would they connect you to the incident if you weren't even there delivering the package?

i would love to see some harsh penalties for scammers; if we can somehow get the police/courts to make it easier for us to pursue damages for false claims i think it would be important to send a message that scammers are indeed ... scum of the earth, and their lying ways will not be tolerated


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## _Tron_

ashlee2004 said:


> My dear friend and LP extraordinaire Brian told me about 10 times on our conference call that Amazon's internal motto is that they're "obsessed with their customers" and no matter what the circumstances are they investigate every report of fraud as if it's legitimate.


"obsessed with customer service" is a Jeff Bezos thing. It is the mantra that has run Amazon since day 1, and as many Amazon customers are likely to agree, customers benefit from it. I sure have. The burden of proof tends to go to the vendor side, in that Amazon gives customers a lot of leash for getting refunds, etc.

I would venture a guess that the customer in this case (who may not know about obsessive service) came home, found the package missing, and decided to blame the driver. The "she dropped it off and then picked up later" was a ruse for explaining the photographic proof.

Better yet, the customer retrieved the package just fine and is simply a scammer. In that case they are likely repeat offenders, and added the "she dropped it off and then picked up later" to pad their story, because the last few times they simply reported the package as not delivered, and that routine was getting old.

I had a parallel experience with Uber... but not related to a delivery. But they used the same coy routine on the phone call to let me do all the talking. It's a basic interrogation technique designed to trip up the guilty. Anyway, sounds like you kept your cool ashlee. Good job.

ps - Bezos is on my short list, along with Zuck, as candidates for being the incarnation of the anti-christ.


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## New2This

ashlee2004 said:


> (Spoiler alert: I win)
> 
> So I started doing Flex here and there at the end of last year. About a week ago, I opened the app, and all it displayed was a black screen with a message saying ACCOUNT DISABLED. PLEASE CHECK YOUR EMAIL FOR MORE INFORMATION.
> 
> I check my email, and have an email from Alicia at Flex Support saying they are investigating a violation of the terms of service. I have absolutely no idea what I've done wrong, but the email says they will be in touch with more details within 24 hours. So I sit tight.
> 
> A full week passes with zero communication from Amazon.
> 
> I write a letter to support referencing the above email and ask for someone to give me information about why I've been deactivated. I receive an email thanking me for my inquiry and telling me someone will be contacting me within 48 hours.
> 
> Two days later, I get a phone call from a guy named Brian with Loss Prevention. He gets two other people on the line to have a "very open and honest conversation". This phone call lasted for TWO HOURS. They asked me to start off by describing what an average block is like, so I take them through one step by step. They then spend approximately one hour playing guessing games with me, trying to get me to admit to ever having stolen a package. Which I haven't, making this the most aggravating and annoying conversation of all time.
> 
> I finally get them to give me some info: a customer reported I came to their porch after delivering a package and took the package back with me. 20 minutes of more "describe a time you've gone to a customer's house when you shouldn't have" questions, I tell them to give me the date of the incident in question, and I'll send them screenshots of my location history in Google and let them review it and decide for themselves if I did it.
> 
> I send them my location history for January 6th, the day in question. They determine I couldn't possibly have been stealing packages from the customer as I was over 100 miles away at that time. They tell me they'll be giving Flex a report that "our conversation went well".
> 
> Two days later, I'm sent an email apologizing for the inconvenience, informing me that I've been reactivated, and they are giving me a $100 account adjustment for the inconvenience.
> 
> ..The saddest part about this? Such a better experience than being falsely reported for Uber.
> 
> Anyway, figured why not share the experience in case anyone else has this happen!


If you remember their address I'll hit up California Tortilla and then help you get revenge on them.




























Or does this count as cruel and unusual punishment? &#129300;

If so, we can come up with something else less severe.


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## WAHN

tohunt4me said:


> What of those of us who do not allow our every move to ne tracked by Google or otherApps?
> Those with no location " History"?


Seems like it would be a bit difficult to do gig work with that philosophy.


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## tohunt4me

WAHN said:


> Seems like it would be a bit difficult to do gig work with that philosophy.


Especially while NOTgetting paid properly !


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## KevinJohnson

Why didn't they ALREADY have your location info? 
They locked you out for 11 days then give you $100. Really?
3 LP guys for 2 hours, 6 man hours or more for 1 package? Was it a Rolex?


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## Jon Stoppable

Bear would have increased the FLEXibility of their limbs by dislocating them.


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## Prius13

Hate these games people and customers play. People in apartment dwellings, too lazy to get paxes delivered to Amazon lockers. 1) Am not waiting ten minutes or more for someone to buzz me into an apartment dwelling, to have a "secure location" 
2) Not burning two + hours of drive time and transaction time, doing apartment addressed packages to be returned to Dch with blue vests, as "undeliverable." I understand I risk the customer claiming the package wasn't delivered if I leave it at the apartment main door. I will take my chance instead of doing three hours of unpaid time + wear and tear on my car to do returns. 
One more reason I'd like to do more Whole Foods.


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## Yam Digger

ashlee2004 said:


> ..The saddest part about this? Such a better experience than being falsely reported for Uber.


Jeff Bezoz is a very low bar to step over....or should I say: trip over? When even that creep can give Uber good advise on how to treat an Independent Contractor right, you know the situation at Uber is really bad!


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## 58756

Ashlee you're supposed to have footage, isn't this why the app makes you take a photo of the package in front of their door step?


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## ashlee2004

Ozzyoz said:


> Ashlee you're supposed to have footage, isn't this why the app makes you take a photo of the package in front of their door step?


Of course I took a picture!  You must have missed this part-

The customer claimed after I delivered the package, sometime later I went back to their porch and took the package back with me.


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## 58756

ashlee2004 said:


> Of course I took a picture! :smiles: You must have missed this part-
> 
> The customer claimed after I delivered the package, sometime later I went back to their porch and took the package back with me.


Sorry I was drunk earlier and missed that part. Jesus Louises if this is really Amazon being that dumb to believe that, then I'm leaving them and switching to Wish and Walmart. I've been with Walmart but this pisses me off as I like my Amazon flex delivery guys. Bye bye Amazon, I'll miss those merchants. Here are some of my past orders as a loyal customer since 2011.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp

ashlee2004 said:


> (Spoiler alert: I win)
> 
> So I started doing Flex here and there at the end of last year. About a week ago, I opened the app, and all it displayed was a black screen with a message saying ACCOUNT DISABLED. PLEASE CHECK YOUR EMAIL FOR MORE INFORMATION.
> 
> I check my email, and have an email from Alicia at Flex Support saying they are investigating a violation of the terms of service. I have absolutely no idea what I've done wrong, but the email says they will be in touch with more details within 24 hours. So I sit tight.
> 
> A full week passes with zero communication from Amazon.
> 
> I write a letter to support referencing the above email and ask for someone to give me information about why I've been deactivated. I receive an email thanking me for my inquiry and telling me someone will be contacting me within 48 hours.
> 
> Two days later, I get a phone call from a guy named Brian with Loss Prevention. He gets two other people on the line to have a "very open and honest conversation". This phone call lasted for TWO HOURS. They asked me to start off by describing what an average block is like, so I take them through one step by step. They then spend approximately one hour playing guessing games with me, trying to get me to admit to ever having stolen a package. Which I haven't, making this the most aggravating and annoying conversation of all time.
> 
> I finally get them to give me some info: a customer reported I came to their porch after delivering a package and took the package back with me. 20 minutes of more "describe a time you've gone to a customer's house when you shouldn't have" questions, I tell them to give me the date of the incident in question, and I'll send them screenshots of my location history in Google and let them review it and decide for themselves if I did it.
> 
> I send them my location history for January 6th, the day in question. They determine I couldn't possibly have been stealing packages from the customer as I was over 100 miles away at that time. They tell me they'll be giving Flex a report that "our conversation went well".
> 
> Two days later, I'm sent an email apologizing for the inconvenience, informing me that I've been reactivated, and they are giving me a $100 account adjustment for the inconvenience.
> 
> ..The saddest part about this? Such a better experience than being falsely reported for Uber.
> 
> Anyway, figured why not share the experience in case anyone else has this happen!


Does this mean you can keep the package?


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## Angela Cheeseman

I know this thread is about flex, but I keep getting fraud reports from uber eats saying that I pick up the food but I don't start the delivery, which is Ludacris. I generally pick up from the same places and all of my orders are delivered and I receive a tip for every single order. I used to call them so they have a documentation, but it's not even worth my time anymore.


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## New2This

Angela Cheeseman said:


> which is Ludacris


Ludicrous maybe?


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## Ignatowski

> The customer was claiming that I delivered the package, took a picture of it, then picked the package back up and took off with it.


They must have claimed that you returned _hours_ later, if you had already gone 100 miles away by the time they claimed you took the package? If they made a false claim that it was stolen (for example, in order to get a free grow light), then that was their dumb mistake (and your lucky break)... it would be much harder for you to prove you didn't just set a package down, take the picture, then pick it up again and walk off with it.

Then again, maybe the package _was_ stolen, and they thought it would be a pain to call the cops ("uh, yeah, I need to report a stolen grow light")... but if they tell Amazon it's Amazon's fault, then they get a replacement grow light by 2pm the next day.

This reminds me, I've been wondering if I should attach an old craigslist GoPro to the strap of a bike messenger bag and wear it while doing deliveries.


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## somedriverguy

Taxi2Uber said:


> This only means _your phone_ was 100 miles away.
> 
> So what was in the package?:biggrin:


I'd like to buy his phone since apparently it can do package deliveries for him while he is 100 miles away!



rideshareMN said:


> thanks for sharing this story, and i'm glad you were reinstated; i rely now on amazon for my gig income since i stopped doing uber/lyft when the pandemic hit in March; it's scary how they just disabled your account without warning, then took forever to followup, then basically spent far too long on the phone trying to trap you into something you did not do!
> 
> it seems particularly odd that your phone was 100 miles away from the alleged incident -- that makes zero sense -- how would they connect you to the incident if you weren't even there delivering the package?
> 
> i would love to see some harsh penalties for scammers; if we can somehow get the police/courts to make it easier for us to pursue damages for false claims i think it would be important to send a message that scammers are indeed ... scum of the earth, and their lying ways will not be tolerated


I especially like the way that the tech and info obsessed super company didnt even check its own tracking data it would have had on you since you were delivering for them when you were accused.


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## hooj

ashlee2004 said:


> I'll send them screenshots of my location history in Google


What do you mean by this?


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## 58756

hooj said:


> What do you mean by this?


Google has a way to see where you've been in Android. Android keeps track of places you've been to via Google Maps and this is great


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## SuzeCB

rideshareMN said:


> thanks for sharing this story, and i'm glad you were reinstated; i rely now on amazon for my gig income since i stopped doing uber/lyft when the pandemic hit in March; it's scary how they just disabled your account without warning, then took forever to followup, then basically spent far too long on the phone trying to trap you into something you did not do!
> 
> it seems particularly odd that your phone was 100 miles away from the alleged incident -- that makes zero sense -- how would they connect you to the incident if you weren't even there delivering the package?
> 
> i would love to see some harsh penalties for scammers; if we can somehow get the police/courts to make it easier for us to pursue damages for false claims i think it would be important to send a message that scammers are indeed ... scum of the earth, and their lying ways will not be tolerated


It is easy. The overwhelming majority of drivers simply don't want to do the minimal legwork to do it, though. So much easier to cry about it online and use all sorts of excuses on why it's not worth it.

I'm in NJ. It costs $15 to file a case in Small Claims, no attorney necessary. Subpoenas are easy to get, too, so long as what and who they cover is associated with the case. You can have a friend do the service of it.

Maybe about 3 days total of actually having to do something, one of them being going to court. Have your estimated earnings for a few weeks before the deactivation to figure out about what you lost, get all the info on the customer that you can (other complaints, etc., and you CAN win for damages, and also punitive, if the complaint was fraudulent, and not simply a mistake that any reasonable person can see it as.


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## ashlee2004

SuzeCB said:


> It is easy. The overwhelming majority of drivers simply don't want to do the minimal legwork to do it, though. So much easier to cry about it online and use all sorts of excuses on why it's not worth it.
> 
> I'm in NJ. It costs $15 to file a case in Small Claims, no attorney necessary. Subpoenas are easy to get, too, so long as what and who they cover is associated with the case. You can have a friend do the service of it.
> 
> Maybe about 3 days total of actually having to do something, one of them being going to court. Have your estimated earnings for a few weeks before the deactivation to figure out about what you lost, get all the info on the customer that you can (other complaints, etc., and you CAN win for damages, and also punitive, if the complaint was fraudulent, and not simply a mistake that any reasonable person can see it as.


To be perfectly honest this sounds like a whole lot of work with a relatively small payoff. I feel like I'd be better off spending the time working in whatever capacity than spending several days in court over a week's worth of lost 1099 wages.

Is that naive? Honest question.


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## CarpeNoctem

ashlee2004 said:


> To be perfectly honest this sounds like a whole lot of work with a relatively small payoff. I feel like I'd be better off spending the time working in whatever capacity than spending several days in court over a week's worth of lost 1099 wages.
> 
> Is that naive? Honest question.


That is something only you can decide but if you were making ~$100 per day at 11 days then it may be worth it to some. Not just for the money but for the principle. Also, in some instances/locations, if you can show it was an intentional lie by the scamming lowlife then you might could get triple the award. In any instance it could lead to trying to get your money from the lowlife without having to file additional complaints or getting judgements for liens and the like.

<<<Not a lawyer but I play one on the internet.


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## 1.5xorbust

You should have told them that you were involved in an insurrection at the Washington Capitol all day on January 6th and you have video to prove it.


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## Alltel77

Just wait until amazon starts distributing vaccines lol


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## ANThonyBoreDaneCook

Ozzyoz said:


> Ashlee you're supposed to have footage, isn't this why the app makes you take a photo of the package in front of their door step?





ashlee2004 said:


> Of course I took a picture!


You should just project the video on to @Ozzyoz 's 1080p HD forehead

That shit so big it took Magellan 10 years and 230 men just to hit the first furrow wrinkle line


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## 58756

ANThonyBoreDaneCook said:


> You should just project the video on to @Ozzyoz 's 1080p HD forehead
> 
> That shit so big it took Magellan 10 years and 230 men just to hit the first furrow wrinkle line


Some Baseball players got foreheads larger than too. I'm about to get a 2nd hair transplant to finish things well and fix the large looking forhead


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## Mota-Driven

I worked in corporate loss prevention for a number of years investigating internal employee fraud for a major company/trained in interview & interrogation techniques, and I can tell you it's a psychological game that they try to get you admit your 'devious behavior' over the phone. It's much easier in person, but the reason they made the conversation so extended, they probably asked you the same questions in different ways, trying to see if they can catch you in a lie. Literally, that's the entire goal is to see if they can somehow determine that you cross reference your story in different patterns by detecting deceit, believe me, those guys are trained to push your mental stress in ways that break you, but fortunately _most_ honest people, tend to come out ahead when they were doing things in accordance.

What I would recommend for anybody to follow if that ever happens like it did for the OP, always write down the events on paper _before_ you talk to anyone one, (i.e. times/date stamp/specifics about the package, neighborhood), that way you have your story concrete of what happened that day, versus you trying to vaguely remember, because sometimes if you are thinking too hard about something when there's pressure on you, you might say something that may or may not of happened accurately, which might lead your employer to question you further or believe that you left something intentionally out of your narrative.


----------



## Guido-TheKillerPimp

ashlee2004 said:


> (Spoiler alert: I win)
> 
> So I started doing Flex here and there at the end of last year. About a week ago, I opened the app, and all it displayed was a black screen with a message saying ACCOUNT DISABLED. PLEASE CHECK YOUR EMAIL FOR MORE INFORMATION.
> 
> I check my email, and have an email from Alicia at Flex Support saying they are investigating a violation of the terms of service. I have absolutely no idea what I've done wrong, but the email says they will be in touch with more details within 24 hours. So I sit tight.
> 
> A full week passes with zero communication from Amazon.
> 
> I write a letter to support referencing the above email and ask for someone to give me information about why I've been deactivated. I receive an email thanking me for my inquiry and telling me someone will be contacting me within 48 hours.
> 
> Two days later, I get a phone call from a guy named Brian with Loss Prevention. He gets two other people on the line to have a "very open and honest conversation". This phone call lasted for TWO HOURS. They asked me to start off by describing what an average block is like, so I take them through one step by step. They then spend approximately one hour playing guessing games with me, trying to get me to admit to ever having stolen a package. Which I haven't, making this the most aggravating and annoying conversation of all time.
> 
> I finally get them to give me some info: a customer reported I came to their porch after delivering a package and took the package back with me. 20 minutes of more "describe a time you've gone to a customer's house when you shouldn't have" questions, I tell them to give me the date of the incident in question, and I'll send them screenshots of my location history in Google and let them review it and decide for themselves if I did it.
> 
> I send them my location history for January 6th, the day in question. They determine I couldn't possibly have been stealing packages from the customer as I was over 100 miles away at that time. They tell me they'll be giving Flex a report that "our conversation went well".
> 
> Two days later, I'm sent an email apologizing for the inconvenience, informing me that I've been reactivated, and they are giving me a $100 account adjustment for the inconvenience.
> 
> ..The saddest part about this? Such a better experience than being falsely reported for Uber.
> 
> Anyway, figured why not share the experience in case anyone else has this happen!


Sooo....ummmm.....what was in the package? &#128559;


----------



## KenLV

tohunt4me said:


> What of those of us who do not allow our every move to ne tracked by Google or otherApps?
> Those with no location " History"?


I'm guessing something along the lines of...

"If you're not doing anything wrong, what have you got to hide?"

It's funny, because all these companies are run by supposed liberals who undoubtedly support the ACLU - well, except when it comes to THEIR bottom line.


----------



## SuzeCB

ashlee2004 said:


> To be perfectly honest this sounds like a whole lot of work with a relatively small payoff. I feel like I'd be better off spending the time working in whatever capacity than spending several days in court over a week's worth of lost 1099 wages.
> 
> Is that naive? Honest question.


Depends on how much you make a day, I suppose. You sue for an approximation of your earnings for Mondays, Tuesdays, etc. That should take maybe 10 minutes to calculate and print out for a judge to see. 1/2 a day, being GENEROUS to fill out the forms. In my state of NJ, filing in Small Claims costs $15. Getting a friend to serve Amazon will cost $1.... if your friend actually insists on being paid the $1.

You "fill up" whatever the limit is in Small Claims court with Punitive Damages. NJ has the lowest limit I've heard of, at $3,000. Texas has a limit of $10,000, I suppose because they try to live up to their rep of everything being bigger. Most states cap it at $5,000.

So, how much do you make in 3 days that you can scoff at $5,000? Please, do tell us all your secret!


----------



## ashlee2004

SuzeCB said:


> Depends on how much you make a day, I suppose. You sue for an approximation of your earnings for Mondays, Tuesdays, etc. That should take maybe 10 minutes to calculate and print out for a judge to see. 1/2 a day, being GENEROUS to fill out the forms. In my state of NJ, filing in Small Claims costs $15. Getting a friend to serve Amazon will cost $1.... if your friend actually insists on being paid the $1.
> 
> You "fill up" whatever the limit is in Small Claims court with Punitive Damages. NJ has the lowest limit I've heard of, at $3,000. Texas has a limit of $10,000, I suppose because they try to live up to their rep of everything being bigger. Most states cap it at $5,000.
> 
> So, how much do you make in 3 days that you can scoff at $5,000? Please, do tell us all your secret!


Ok, you have my attention &#129488; &#128513;

You actually bring up an important question - since I'm currently actively working for them, would any of this jeopardize my ability to continue doing so?


----------



## SuzeCB

ashlee2004 said:


> Ok, you have my attention &#129488; &#128513;
> 
> You actually bring up an important question - since I'm currently actively working for them, would any of this jeopardize my ability to continue doing so?


It shouldn't, since you're not suing THEM, and are actually going after someone that tried to scam them, also.

All you're demanding from them is identification of the customer that harmed you.


----------



## Yam Digger

KenLV said:


> It's funny, because all these companies are run by supposed *liberals*


Silicone Valley Oligarchs are often portrayed by mainstream-media as liberals. Not so at all! They're *Libertarians*. Which at it's basest says:

_"It's every man and woman for themselves and their family. If you can't swim you deserve to drown. You have the God given right to turn your own life into a pile of &#128169; if that's what you want to do. There is no such thing as good government. We have the right to rape the planet's resources."_

That amoral ethos embodies everything the Tech Oligarchs do. They're really no better than the Robber Barons of old. The only difference is that the kinds of stuff that Rockefeller and Carnegie could get away with a hundred years ago, Musk and Zuckerburg dare not try today. But trust me: they would if they could.


----------



## cvflexer

ashlee2004 said:


> Ok, you have my attention &#129488; &#128513;
> 
> You actually bring up an important question - since I'm currently actively working for them, would any of this jeopardize my ability to continue doing so?


You would get deactivated as soon as that subpoena hits Amazon. T&C's state that you cannot take any customer to court or even be a witness for or against Amazon or any of their customers


----------



## ANT 7

Taxi2Uber said:


> This only means _your phone_ was 100 miles away.
> 
> So what was in the package?:biggrin:


She's still vacuuming up the various bits of glitter.


----------



## Nitedriver

ashlee2004 said:


> (Spoiler alert: I win)
> 
> So I started doing Flex here and there at the end of last year. About a week ago, I opened the app, and all it displayed was a black screen with a message saying ACCOUNT DISABLED. PLEASE CHECK YOUR EMAIL FOR MORE INFORMATION.
> 
> I check my email, and have an email from Alicia at Flex Support saying they are investigating a violation of the terms of service. I have absolutely no idea what I've done wrong, but the email says they will be in touch with more details within 24 hours. So I sit tight.
> 
> A full week passes with zero communication from Amazon.
> 
> I write a letter to support referencing the above email and ask for someone to give me information about why I've been deactivated. I receive an email thanking me for my inquiry and telling me someone will be contacting me within 48 hours.
> 
> Two days later, I get a phone call from a guy named Brian with Loss Prevention. He gets two other people on the line to have a "very open and honest conversation". This phone call lasted for TWO HOURS. They asked me to start off by describing what an average block is like, so I take them through one step by step. They then spend approximately one hour playing guessing games with me, trying to get me to admit to ever having stolen a package. Which I haven't, making this the most aggravating and annoying conversation of all time.
> 
> I finally get them to give me some info: a customer reported I came to their porch after delivering a package and took the package back with me. 20 minutes of more "describe a time you've gone to a customer's house when you shouldn't have" questions, I tell them to give me the date of the incident in question, and I'll send them screenshots of my location history in Google and let them review it and decide for themselves if I did it.
> 
> I send them my location history for January 6th, the day in question. They determine I couldn't possibly have been stealing packages from the customer as I was over 100 miles away at that time. They tell me they'll be giving Flex a report that "our conversation went well".
> 
> Two days later, I'm sent an email apologizing for the inconvenience, informing me that I've been reactivated, and they are giving me a $100 account adjustment for the inconvenience.
> 
> ..The saddest part about this? Such a better experience than being falsely reported for Uber.
> 
> Anyway, figured why not share the experience in case anyone else has this happen!


many many false reports on Uber , that works for their algorithm to kick out some drivers , @ this point I have to say " a criminal enterprise"


----------



## W00dbutcher

I think a body cam would be beneficial in this job.


----------



## somedriverguy

W00dbutcher said:


> I think a body cam would be beneficial in this job.


Yes, just what UBER wants, more evidence that they can ignore.


----------



## W00dbutcher

somedriverguy said:


> Yes, just what UBER wants, more evidence that they can ignore.


This ain't about Uber.... Might want to read and follow the "context" of my statement and the original posts highlights.

This is exactly how misinformation gets spread around

Wiat.. You "liked" the bodycam post then changed it to fit.... Nevermind


----------



## somedriverguy

W00dbutcher said:


> This ain't about Uber.... Might want to read and follow the "context" of my statement and the original posts highlights.
> 
> This is exactly how misinformation gets spread around
> 
> Wiat.. You "liked" the bodycam post then changed it to fit.... Nevermind
> 
> View attachment 557743
> View attachment 557743


You are correct, a bodycam would be useful for a gig worker. I liked you post because that is true. My statement is that gig companies go out of their way to shit on their contractors, going so far as to take money away from them, despite the fact that they(both the company and the contractor) have hard evidence proving that the customer is a lying piece of shit.


----------



## KenLV

Yam Digger said:


> "It's every man and woman for themselves and their family. If you can't swim you deserve to drown. You have the God given right to turn your own life into a pile of &#128169; if that's what you want to do. There is no such thing as good government. We have the right to rape the planet's resources."


LOL What Libertarian are you quoting there?

Certainly not any I know.

Seriously, this is about the worst distortion of Libertarian views I've seen in quite a while.


----------



## Yam Digger

KenLV said:


> Seriously, this is about the worst distortion of Libertarian views I've seen in quite a while


Since (according to you) I am grossly incorrect, would you like to explain in detail why I'm wrong?


----------



## KenLV

First, my reply was not an "ad hominem" fallacy - I didn't attack you, just your absurd and (still) unsupported assertion.

Second, your response, on the other hand, IS a "burden of proof" logical fallacy.

You posted a quote claiming it lays out the foundations of Libertarianism - without offering anything to support your assertion.

When asked "What Libertarian are you quoting there?" you demand I prove no Libertarian had said this.

That's not how it works. It's up to you to prove your claim, not others to disprove it.

Does that usually work for you?


----------



## mch

KenLV said:


> LOL What Libertarian are you quoting there?
> 
> Certainly not any I know.
> 
> Seriously, this is about the worst distortion of Libertarian views I've seen in quite a while.


I absolutely love a lot of what Libertarians believe, and its probably as close to an "ideology" that fits my personal beliefs, but wether that quote actually came from a real Libertarian or not, It's pretty dead on and illustrates why the ideology is a pipe dream.


----------



## KenLV

mch said:


> I absolutely love a lot of what Libertarians believe, and its probably as close to an "ideology" that fits my personal beliefs, but wether that quote actually came from a real Libertarian or not, It's pretty dead on and illustrates why the ideology is a pipe dream.


Show your work.

Like Digger, you can't.

His slanderous opinion is based on nothing that he can actually point to.

Not in the Libertarian party's platform, nor any prominent Libertarians' speeches or writings - which are all readily available and accessable to all.

Edit: PS. I see he edited out his scurrilous accusation that my initial reply was an "ad hominem" attack. LOL


----------



## mch

KenLV said:


> Show your work.
> 
> Like Digger, you can't.
> 
> His slanderous opinion is based on nothing that he can actually point to.
> 
> Not in the Libertarian party's platform, nor any prominent Libertarians' speeches or writings - which are all readily available and accessable to all.
> 
> Edit: PS. I see he edited out his scurrilous accusation that my initial reply was an "ad hominem" attack. LOL


Show my work? Lol.

So if we converted to Libertarianism tomorrow, you don't think there would be people who would completely take advantage?

Kinda naive don't you think?


----------



## Yam Digger

KenLV said:


> Like Digger, you can't.
> 
> His slanderous opinion is based on nothing that he can actually point to.


If I'm wrong, then please correct me by explaining exactly where I'm wrong, instead of just saying I'm wrong. Your unwillingness to offer a counter explanation is actually giving me the impression that I'm right afterall. And I'm not the only one reading this thread and waiting for an answer either.

What I posited was based on my own observation of people who _*claim*_ to be libertarians, not on something that I've read. A good example are the Koch brothers who are practically missionaries of libertarianism.


----------



## KenLV

mch said:


> Show my work? Lol.


Yes, show your work.

You've stated/agreed with a position without anything to support it.

Digger's initial post was a blatant strawman - mistating positions he, and now you, can't actually show that Libertarians hold. And then condemned us for supposedly holding them.

Classic strawman. The defense against this logical fallacy is pretty simple and rather straight forward: 
Point it out and demand the claimant show proof.

Since the fallacy is made up from whole cloth/a distortion of an actual position, they can not.


----------



## Yam Digger

KenLV said:


> You've stated/agreed with a position without anything to support it.


You also expressed your disagreement without any counter argument to show as well. Which suggests to me: you have none.


----------



## W00dbutcher




----------



## KenLV

Yam Digger said:


> If I'm wrong, then please correct me by explaining exactly where I'm wrong, instead of just saying I'm wrong. Your unwillingness to offer a counter explanation is actually giving me the impression that I'm right afterall. And I'm not the only one reading this thread and waiting for an answer either.
> 
> What I posited was based on my own observation of people who claim to be libertarians, not on something that I've read. A good example are the Koch brothers who are practically missionaries of libertarianism.


Again, this isn't how it works. You've made outlandish assertions and are asking others to disprove them. That is literally a textbook example of a burden of proof logical fallacy.

(In part) "The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove."


Yam Digger said:


> You also expressed your disagreement without any counter argument to show as well. Which suggests to me: you have none.


Again, textbook example here folks.

(In part) "The inability, or disinclination, to disprove a claim does not render that claim valid, nor give it any credence whatsoever. "

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
All that said, here:
https://www.lp.org/platform/
That's the Libertarian party platform. Show me where is says all the garbage you're spewing.

I showed you mine, now you show me yours.


----------



## Jon Stoppable

Bear does not fault libertarians for not completely having solved the problem of externalities, because no other humans really have either.

Bear's solution to the problem is straightforward: all humans should be eaten by bears. Bear does not know if the reforestation that would follow would be sufficient to absorb the excess CO2 emitted by human activities, because bear isn't that smart. Bear does know that the planet was getting somewhat carbon-poor as the result of eons of carbon fixation by mollusks. Mollusks taste good, but bears cannot digest their shells, so bears could not solve that problem by bearselves. Perhaps the net emissions after reforestation will prove sufficient to avoid the carbon death of the planet. Bear is willing to take that chance!


----------



## rideshareMN

wow...did this thread veer


----------



## Yam Digger

What I've stated is based on my observation of persons claiming to be libertarian. Now, let's look at what your Libertarian Party has to say and translate to what it really means



KenLV said:


> https://www.lp.org/platform/


But first, a couple of quotes:

"_Man is by nature a social animal; an individual who is unsocial naturally and not accidentally is either beneath our notice or more than human. Society is something that precedes the individual. Anyone who either cannot lead the common life or is so self-sufficient as not to need to, and therefore does not partake of society, is either a beast or a god."_

Aristotle

"_Civilization is a place where the strong lookout for and protect the weak. "_

Myself.

_As Libertarians, we seek a....world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others._

Translation: it's every man and woman for themselves and their family. That can work on a deserted island or a place where the Law of the Jungle is the rule; but not in a civilized society.

1.1 Self-Ownership

_Individuals own their bodies and have rights over them that other individuals, groups, and governments may not violate. Individuals have the freedom and responsibility to decide what they knowingly and voluntarily consume, and what risks they accept to their own health, finances, safety, or life._

Translation: you have the God given right to turn your life into a mess regardless of how it might affect others around you.

_Therefore, we favor the repeal of all laws creating "crimes" without victims, such as gambling, the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, and consensual transactions involving sexual services._

Translation: you have the God given right to turn your life into a mess regardless of how it might affect others around you.

_All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society._

Translation: Every man and woman for themselves and their family; everyone else be dammed

_Competitive free markets and property rights stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect our environment and ecosystems._

Translation: the fox is the best animal to guard the hen house. This sounds good in theory; but it usually ends up being: "we have the right to rape the planet's resources."

_All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution_

Translation: Every man and woman for themselves. Implement that, and civilization as we know it ceases to exist. Forget about nice things like infrastructure and maintenance. Forget about having a judiciary, law-enforcement and the much ballyhooed protection of property rights that libertarians love so much. Firemen don't work for free. House catch on fire but you can't pay the firemen on the spot? Too bad, so sad.

_We favor free-market banking, with unrestricted competition among banks and depository institutions of all types._

Implement that, and your money will actually be safer stuffed in your mattress because there will be bank failures galore.

_Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality, accountability, and efficiency with more diversity of choice._

Charles Dickens books are nice to read; but you wouldn't to live in the very libertarian-like mid 19th century London. Implement that, and within a generation the middle class will disappear and be replaced with a few haves and allot of have-nots. Is that what you want?

_We support ending federal student loan guarantees and special treatment of student loan debt in bankruptcy proceedings._

Do that, and you can kiss your country's professional class goodbye because young adults will be scared to take the financial risk of getting a higher education. Get used to your professional class being made up of immigrants from places were educational is cheap or free. In fact, this is happening to your country already.

_Accordingly, we oppose occupational and other licensing laws that infringe on this right or treat it as a state-granted privilege. We encourage certifications by voluntary associations of professionals._

There we go again; putting the fox in charge of the hen house. I work as a school bus driver, and I have been trained according to Ministry of Transportation standards. If it was left up the bus companies to qualify me as a driver, would you really want your children riding my bus?

_We favor a free market health care system. We recognize the freedom of individuals to determine the level of health insurance they want (if any),_

Translation: If you can't swim, you deserve to drown.

_Retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. Libertarians would phase out the current government-sponsored Social Security system and transition to a private voluntary system. The proper and most effective source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.

We advocate replacing defined-benefit pensions with defined-contribution plans, as are commonly offered in the private sector, so as not to impose debt on future generations without their consent._

Translation: If you can't swim, you deserve to drown. Implement this, and you'll have elderly indigent and homeless people all over the place.

_We believe members of society will become even more charitable and civil society will be strengthened as government reduces its activity in this realm._

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Oh, that is so funny. &#128518;&#128518;&#128518;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;. Look at Third World countries where there is little to no "safety net". Do you see the wealthy running to support all the poor? I grew up in a third world country: and no; I didn't see any benevolence like that. Why do you think it would happen in America &#127482;&#127480;?

All considered: from my observation of libertarians, especially 1% libertarians, this philosophy is really just an excuse for having no moral compass

In closing, I'd like you to read about a place called Kowloon Walled City. This place was a textbook example of a true libertarian community. But ask yourself: would even YOU want to live there?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City

https://unbelievable-facts.com/2018/02/facts-about-kowloon-walled-city.html

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/kowloon-walled-city

Yam Digger


----------



## KenLV

Yam Digger said:


> _As Libertarians, we seek a....world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and are not forced to sacrifice their values for the benefit of others._
> 
> Translation: it's every man and woman for themselves and their family. That can work on a deserted island or a place where the Law of the Jungle is the rule; but not in a civilized society.





Yam Digger said:


> _All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution_
> 
> Translation: Every man and woman for themselves. Implement that, and civilization as we know it ceases to exist. Forget about nice things like infrastructure and maintenance. Forget about having a judiciary, law-enforcement and the much ballyhooed protection of property rights that libertarians love so much. Firemen don't work for free. House catch on fire but you can't pay the firemen on the spot? Too bad, so sad.


"The proper and most effective source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals. We believe members of society will become even more charitable and civil society will be strengthened as government reduces its activity in this realm."

Doesn't sound like "every man and woman for themselves and their family" to me. The Libertarian difference is that *you should, and would, help others voluntarily rather than by force and under threat from a government*. Americans are the most charitable people in the world. You think we would be less charitable with LESS government theft? That's nonsense.-o:


Yam Digger said:


> _All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society._
> 
> Translation: Every man and woman for themselves and their family; everyone else be dammed


(FIFY) Translation: The individual is better suited to decide where his/her money goes than a government 3000 miles away.


Yam Digger said:


> _We favor free-market banking, with unrestricted competition among banks and depository institutions of all types._
> 
> Implement that, and your money will actually be safer stuffed in your mattress because there will be bank failures galore.


I don't believe you're correct, but even if you are...So? Seriously, so what? Keep your money wherever you want. It's your money, do what you think is best.&#128077;


Yam Digger said:


> _Individuals own their bodies and have rights over them that other individuals, groups, and governments may not violate. Individuals have the freedom and responsibility to decide what they knowingly and voluntarily consume, and what risks they accept to their own health, finances, safety, or life._
> 
> Translation: you have the God given right to turn your life into a mess regardless of how it might affect others around you.





Yam Digger said:


> _Therefore, we favor the repeal of all laws creating "crimes" without victims, such as gambling, the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, and consensual transactions involving sexual services._
> 
> Translation: you have the God given right to turn your life into a mess regardless of how it might affect others around you.


"{A}s long as their choices do not harm or infringe on the rights of others"

You seem to keep forgetting that core Libertarian tenet in your "translations".

I wonder why.&#129300;

BTW, you do know that if someone makes a mess out of their life (for example, a heroine addicted sibling) you can exclude them from YOUR life. Conversely, you can VOLUNTARILY keep them in your life too - if you don't mind them stealing from you and selling your TV to feed their habit. How many chances you give them is up to you.


Yam Digger said:


> _All persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor. We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution_
> 
> Translation: Every man and woman for themselves. Implement that, and civilization as we know it ceases to exist. Forget about nice things like infrastructure and maintenance. Forget about having a judiciary, law-enforcement and the much ballyhooed protection of property rights that libertarians love so much. Firemen don't work for free. House catch on fire but you can't pay the firemen on the spot? Too bad, so sad.


The vast majority of infrastructure is already *owned and operated by the PRIVATE SECTOR.* Better than FOUR TIMES more than state/local governments and over TWENTY-SEVEN times more than the federal government.:whistling:

"Asset ownership conveys responsibility; federal intervention diffuses it."

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/tbb-78-updated.pdf


Yam Digger said:


> _Competitive free markets and property rights stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect our environment and ecosystems._
> 
> Translation: the fox is the best animal to guard the hen house. This sounds good in theory; but it usually ends up being: "we have the right to rape the planet's resources."


...and the rest of that paragraph that you left out: "Private landowners and conservation groups have a vested interest in maintaining natural resources. Governments are unaccountable for damage done to our environment and have a terrible track record when it comes to environmental protection. Protecting the environment requires a clear definition and enforcement of individual rights and responsibilities regarding resources like land, water, air, and wildlife. Where damages can be proven and quantified in a court of law, restitution to the injured parties must be required."

It's starting to look like you don't have the foggiest idea what Libertarians espouse. "{S}_tarting to look_"? Who am I kidding, it's been obvious since your first post.:thumbdown:

I could easily do this with the remaining paragraphs, but there seems little point going on with this - anything more would just be gratuitous.

You have shown that you have no idea what you are talking about (case in point: the Kowloon Walled City is best described as an anarchical city).

Further, it's crystal clear that you aren't interested in learning about Libertarianism - and teaching you is not what I'm trying to do here. However, I did feel it necessary to correct the record - so that those who actually do have an opened mind, can learn. I believe I've done that.

So I'll finish with one final "translation" for you before signing off this thread:

https://www.lp.org/platform/
*"Translation": As long you aren't forcing the rest of us to pay for it, and every transaction you enter into is voluntary for all parties, and so long as you do not infringe upon the rights of others: you can pretty much do what you want and live how you'd like.*


----------



## ashlee2004

🙄


----------



## Uber Panda

ashlee2004 said:


> I do, and I did, and the picture was clear as day in the delivery record. The customer was claiming that I delivered the package, took a picture of it, then picked the package back up and took off with it.
> 
> My dear friend and LP extraordinaire Brian told me about 10 times on our conference call that Amazon's internal motto is that they're "obsessed with their customers" and no matter what the circumstances are they investigate every report of fraud as if it's legitimate.


Thanks for posting. I wonder if AMZN will investigate the customer for fraud.


----------



## rideshareMN

Uber Panda said:


> Thanks for posting. I wonder if AMZN will investigate the customer for fraud.


not a chance, but they will offer them money off on their next order


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## Mad_Jack_Flint

ashlee2004 said:


> To be perfectly honest this sounds like a whole lot of work with a relatively small payoff. I feel like I'd be better off spending the time working in whatever capacity than spending several days in court over a week's worth of lost 1099 wages.
> 
> Is that naive? Honest question.


It depends because I get why others are saying use the courts so it will teach Amazon and the Customer a lesson, but it is your choice but I would do it...

Customers many times false reports so they can scam the system for something free and it is the delivery driver that has to prove they are innocent and when we do the Customer is never punished...


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## FLKeys

Mad_Jack_Flint said:


> It depends because I get why others are saying use the courts so it will teach Amazon and the Customer a lesson, but it is your choice but I would do it...
> 
> Customers many times false reports so they can scam the system for something free and it is the delivery driver that has to prove they are innocent and when we do the Customer is never punished...


I used to push the same thing, take customer to court, win, and plaster it all over the media. Enough people do this and false claims may slow down.

Reality is most drivers would just rather complain here on UP.net and do noting else because it may take a little effort.


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## SuzeCB

Alltel77 said:


> Just wait until amazon starts distributing vaccines lol


Via drone!


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## UberBastid

tohunt4me said:


> What of those of us who do not allow our every move to ne tracked by Google or otherApps?
> Those with no location " History"?


Freedom has a cost - sometimes it's expensive.
Slavery is cheaper and easier.

Your choice.



SuzeCB said:


> Via drone!


So, you'd take off your pants, lay face-down in the back yard and the drone flies over and ''BOMBS AWAY!"
Good delivery system.


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## Ms.Doe

ashlee2004 said:


> To be perfectly honest this sounds like a whole lot of work with a relatively small payoff. I feel like I'd be better off spending the time working in whatever capacity than spending several days in court over a week's worth of lost 1099 wages.
> 
> Is that naive? Honest question.


Be selective in your battles; sometimes peace is better than being right.


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## SuzeCB

UberBastid said:


> Freedom has a cost - sometimes it's expensive.
> Slavery is cheaper and easier.
> 
> Your choice.
> 
> 
> So, you'd take off your pants, lay face-down in the back yard and the drone flies over and ''BOMBS AWAY!"
> Good delivery system.


I was thinking my arm.

Just what DID happen to you the last time you got a shot?! LOL &#128562;


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## UberBastid

SuzeCB said:


> I was thinking my arm.
> 
> Just what DID happen to you the last time you got a shot?! LOL &#128562;


Your arm?
Well, I guess a drone strike could hit a small target like that.
We may need a guided missal system; bet Joe could get that up and running a few days.

In my case, my butt is a bigger target.


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## Amos69

FLKeys said:


> Glad it worked out for you, you have way more patience than me. I would have told them to get to the point. I don't have time for those trivial games.


Sometimes you have to play the game to win.

This was more of a moral win, than financial, but she played well.

Sometimes if you play the game well you win big.


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