# Here is Uber's Insurance Policy - The Real Paper Policy



## Randy Shear




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## Randy Shear




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## ElectroFuzz

And.... ????
I mean I could print one out too
but will the cop accept it without your name and/or car details?
Or maybe he will just pull up your personal one on his computer 
when he enters your car registration details.


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## LAuberX

I keep a printed copy in the glovebox with my personal insurance and registration.... it will not see daylight unless I get in an accident with a pax on board.


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## Randy Shear

ElectroFuzz said:


> And.... ????
> I mean I could print one out too
> but will the cop accept it without your name and/or car details?
> Or maybe he will just pull up your personal one on his computer
> when he enters your car registration details.


you could and you should the police will absolutely accept it it doesn't have to have my name or car on it because the policy covers anybody driving for uber which covers a variety of people and a variety of vehicles they will accept the insurance you give them but I guess you don't know that so allow me to edify you


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## Randy Shear

LAuberX said:


> I keep a printed copy in the glovebox with my personal insurance and registration.... it will not see daylight unless I get in an accident with a pax on board.


precisely


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## arto71

LAuberX said:


> I keep a printed copy in the glovebox with my personal insurance and registration.... it will not see daylight unless I get in an accident with a pax on board.


We must keep it in car regardless of accident or it's$1000 fine.


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## ElectroFuzz

Randy Shear said:


> you could and you should the police will absolutely accept it it doesn't have to have my name or car on it because the policy covers anybody driving for uber which covers a variety of people and a variety of vehicles they will accept the insurance you give them but I guess you don't know that so allow me to edify you


Thanks
I printed one out
I hope you are right

For those who don't know just click on the WAYBILL
on the bottom there is a link to the Insurance certificate.

By the way it expires on 12-21-14 
so make sure to print out a new one... just before the holidays.


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## nspunx4

That's a certificate not a policy. FYI where is the listing for property damage? All I see is liability. FYI to Uber drivers in mass surplus lines policies are not allowed to act as primary auto insurance policies according to mass general law so beware


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## Uber Driver 007

That's not an insurance policy. It is a mumbo jumbo declaration page (certificate). This is NOT a valid document for police and they will not accept it as valid proof of insurance.


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## Walkersm

That is called an Acord Certificate. It is used in business to business transactions to prove that insurance exists. Police do not see them usually as even with limousine commercial polices the insurer sends Insurance ID cards that list the VIN and Company name. Police check the the VIN matches the car they pulled over and the ownership on the registration is the same as the insured company. All that Acord certificate proves is that Uber has insurance in place for drivers they are contracted with. So that is the next step. Prove to the police that you are contracted with Uber. What you going to show them a square u you printed off the internet? An app on your phone? An air freshener with the Uber logo on it?

Your best hope is a waybill but that only works if you are on a trip at the time.


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## Randy Shear

Walkersm said:


> That is called an Acord Certificate. It is used in business to business transactions to prove that insurance exists. Police do not see them usually as even with limousine commercial polices the insurer sends Insurance ID cards that list the VIN and Company name. Police check the the VIN matches the car they pulled over and the ownership on the registration is the same as the insured company. All that Acord certificate proves is that Uber has insurance in place for drivers they are contracted with. So that is the next step. Prove to the police that you are contracted with Uber. What you going to show them a square u you printed off the internet? An app on your phone? An air freshener with the Uber logo on it?
> 
> Your best hope is a waybill but that only works if you are on a trip at the time.


I can access waybill at anytime on my android device. For all of my prior trips. I also have my payment statements.


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## Orwhatuwill

Where is this policy available to print?


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## Walkersm

Copy here but you need a Scrips Log in to print I believe:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/234793785/Certificate-of-Liability-Insurance-7-22-14

7/22/2014 is the latest updated version that has been released.


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## Walkersm

Randy Shear said:


> I can access waybill at anytime on my android device. For all of my prior trips.


Ah good to know Randy, was not aware of that.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Police: Proof of insurance. NOW.

You: Yes, Officer. Here you go. *hands him the certificate*

Police: What is this piece of shit?

You: It's my insurance policy, Uber is--

Police: This is not proof of insurance. Are you saying you are uninsured?

You: No, officer, Uber insures me. That certificate says that Uber insures any driver that drives for them and here's my waybill that proves I drive for the--

Police: Sir, please step out of the car. Keep your hands where I can see them.


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## Randy Shear

Orwhatuwill said:


> Where is this policy available to print?


I use my device. Go to Waybill, then at the bottom, certificate of insurance hyperlink. From there I can save it, and print it once transferred to my PC.


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## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Police: Proof of insurance. NOW.
> 
> You: Yes, Officer. Here you go. *hands him the certificate*
> 
> Police: What is this piece of shit?
> 
> You: It's my insurance policy, Uber is--
> 
> Police: This is not proof of insurance. Are you saying you are uninsured?
> 
> You: No, officer, Uber insures me. That certificate says that Uber insures any driver that drives for them and here's my waybill that proves I drive for the--
> 
> Police: Sir, please step out of the car. Keep your hands where I can see them.


It clearly shows the following:

Insurer: James River INS CO
NAIC # 12203
Policy # CA43600143
OPERATOR: RANDY L SHEAR OKC
Policy start date: 12-21-2013
Policy end date: 12-21-2014
Prop Dam: $1M
Bod Inj: $1M

This insurance is only to be used in the event of an accident. Or if police specifically ask for your commercial policy, which has never happened to me.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Randy Shear said:


> It clearly shows the following:
> 
> Insurer: James River INS CO
> NAIC # 12203
> Policy # CA43600143
> OPERATOR: RANDY L SHEAR OKC
> Policy start date: 12-21-2013
> Policy end date: 12-21-2014
> Prop Dam: $1M
> Bod Inj: $1M
> 
> This insurance is only to be used in the event of an accident. Or if police specifically ask for your commercial policy, which has never happened to me.


It looks like a phony document with no specific name or vehicle on it.


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## Randy Shear

My name is on it. And I'm betting you aren't someone with the capacity to represent law enforcement. Nothing else to say.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Yeah written in with pen good job. I will send prayers to God that you shall never have to use this document.


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## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Yeah written in with pen good job. I will send prayers to God that you shall never have to use this document.


Where do you see it written with pen? It's all typed on the document. Your screen name should be "NegativeNancysWhoHateUberUnite".

Haters! LOL They let me know I'm doing something right!


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## Older Chauffeur

Randy Shear said:


> It clearly shows the following:
> 
> Insurer: James River INS CO
> NAIC # 12203
> Policy # CA43600143
> OPERATOR: RANDY L SHEAR OKC
> Policy start date: 12-21-2013
> Policy end date: 12-21-2014
> Prop Dam: $1M
> Bod Inj: $1M
> 
> This insurance is only to be used in the event of an accident. Or if police specifically ask for your commercial policy, which has never happened to me.


You have the advantage of holding the original in your hand, so I will take your word for it that you are named on the document. But the picture here is not clear enough to make that determination. Just sayin' ...... I would be more comfortable with the added words, "Named Insured."


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## Bart McCoy

Randy Shear said:


> I can access waybill at anytime on my android device. For all of my prior trips. I also have my payment statements.


The waybill indeed has our name on it as the current operator,as well as the name of the pax in the car.
However I only seem to be able to find my most recent waybill, how are you able to find waybills of earlier pax?


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## Bart McCoy

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> It looks like a phony document with no specific name or vehicle on it.


he's reading off waybill, not that picture of the accord certificate


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## Randy Shear

Older Chauffeur said:


> You have the advantage of holding the original in your hand, so I will take your word for it that you are named on the document. But the picture here is not clear enough to make that determination. Just sayin' ...... I would be more comfortable with the added words, "Named Insured."


Named insured is Raiser LLC AKA Uber.


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## Tommyo

insures Rasier - not the partner


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Randy Shear said:


> Named insured is Raiser LLC AKA Uber.


So your name is Raiser LLC now? lol


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## Bart McCoy

so if you drive for UPS, your name is on the commerical insurance policy?


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## Uber Driver 007

Bart McCoy said:


> so if you drive for UPS, your name is on the commerical insurance policy?


You're confusing a commercial policy with a taxi/livery policy. Two totally different things. Livery policies require you to have the driver's name listed on the insurance policy. Feel free to post info to the contrary.


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## Walkersm

Bart McCoy said:


> so if you drive for UPS, your name is on the commerical insurance policy?


If you drive for UPS you are an employee so all employees are covered under a commercial insurance policy. But yes none of they are named individually that would be impossible. But what there would be is something like this:

Vehicle registration: Registerd owner: UPS Incorporated Vehicle 2012 Utility Box Truck VIN: HG83IG8484HGJ
Commercial insurance ID Card : Insured party: UPS incorporated Vehicle: 2012 Utility Box Truck VIN: HG83IG8484HGJ

What insurance companies do keep is a separate "Schedule of approved drivers" and if there was an accident and that drivers name was not on that list: No coverage. Thats why during the hiring process the drivers driving record is submitted to the insurance company for approval. No approval, no hire (at least not driving)

A better parallel would be to ask "If you worked for Fed Ex delivering packages to homes would your name be on the commercial insurance policy?"

Because FedEx does the Independent Contractor scheme for their ground delivery drivers, UPS does not. But i digress. I know a FedEx operator of vans, i will see what I can find out.


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## Bart McCoy

So even if that Uber policy does cover us, a police officer woudnt accept it yall are saying?
Seems that what uber insurance would cover would be a court issue,and not an on-the-spot show thing


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## Walkersm

Bart McCoy said:


> So even if that Uber policy does cover us, a police officer woudnt accept it yall are saying?
> Seems that what uber insurance would cover would be a court issue,and not an on-the-spot show thing


Yes that is the issue. And further the real issue is this: In an accident with an Uber passenger you do not want to show or even should not have to mention your personal insurance. You should just be able to take out Ubers cert and say here contact these guys. But it wont pass muster most of the time. Most of the time the police will force you to show your personal policy info, they get contacted, you get dropped. That's the real issue.

In the end you will get covered if Uber decides they want to cover you. And they do not feel like taking it to court if the other party is asking for to much ( i.e. Herrera Vs. Uber)


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## Big Machine

Walkersm said:


> Yes that is the issue. And further the real issue is this: In an accident with an Uber passenger you do not want to show or even should not have to mention your personal insurance. You should just be able to take out Ubers cert and say here contact these guys. But it wont pass muster most of the time. Most of the time the police will force you to show your personal policy info, they get contacted, you get dropped. That's the real issue.
> 
> In the end you will get covered if Uber decides they want to cover you. And they do not feel like taking it to court if the other party is asking for to much ( i.e. Herrera Vs. Uber)


Spoken like someone who is clearly ignorant on how it all works. Good job!


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## CityGirl

Page 2 says : 


1. Pursuant to policy terms and conditions:
a. "Named Operators" are drivers that have entered into a contract with a Named Insured (including Rasier LLC) prior to the time of an accident.
b. Covered autos are private passenger vehicles being used following the Named Operator’s logged and recorded acceptance in the Uber application to transport passenger(s) while the Named Operator is i) en route to
pick up that passenger or ii) is transporting that passenger to their destination.
c. Named Operators are insureds, and this coverage is excess of any other collectable insurance, but if no other coverage exists, this coverage will act as primary coverage

2. This is an evidence of coverage certificate


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After reading the foregoing discussion, I am concerned that there is no property damage coverage listed, because if our personal insurance is not going to cover that as it normally would, we could really be screwed. The real question to ask a lawyer in each state is whether our personal insurance would cover property damage in the event of an accident while on the clock with Uber.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

CityGirl said:


> After reading the foregoing discussion, I am concerned that there is no property damage coverage listed, because if our personal insurance is not going to cover that as it normally would, we could really be screwed. The real question to ask a lawyer in each state is whether our personal insurance would cover property damage in the event of an accident while on the clock with Uber.


You don't have to ask a lawyer that. You can ask your insurance company. (spoiler: the answer is no)


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## CityGirl

This looks like they are promising to pay property damage if your personal coverage won't. I'm printing it in case it changes.
http://blog.uber.com/uberXridesharinginsurance


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## CityGirl

@DOTW, Obviously people who fear getting cancelled do not want to ask their insurance companies because they don't want to clue them in. Also, there are differing opinions being expressed and the best resolution is to ask a lawyer in your state. Yes, you do want to be *that* sure. People who do not know what an insurance declaration page looks like (that was one the OP posted) or whether the cops will take it (they will) need better clarification than posting a wild guess and believing other wild guesses.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

CityGirl said:


> @DOTW, Obviously people who fear getting cancelled do not want to ask their insurance companies because they don't want to clue them in. Also, there are differing opinions being expressed and the best resolution is to ask a lawyer in your state. Yes, you do want to be *that* sure. People who do not know what an insurance declaration page looks like (that was one the OP posted) or whether the cops will take it (they will) need better clarification than posting a wild guess and believing other wild guesses.


So you want to ask a lawyer about helping you with insurance fraud? This isn't very complicated. Personal auto insurance does not cover livery operations. If you are afraid to ask your insurance company, that means you already think you are in the wrong, so it sounds like the question is answered.


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## CityGirl

Don't be ridiculous, no one here wants anything to do with insurance fraud. I'd be very afraid of driving without coverage. Based on my review of the documents it is clear to me that I'm covered. Anyone who has questions should get professional advice because there is a lot at stake. They should not rely on the unknown experience of strangers pontificating on a message board....


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

No, they should rely on their insurance company, the entity with which they have entered into a contract. Alternatively, you could read your contract. I'm sure it states very specifically that vehicles engaged in livery operations of any kind are not covered.

Any lawyer you hire would simply read the contract and tell you this.


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## CityGirl

I have almost 20 years in insurance litigation. I'm not worried about my situation after I did read the Uber documents provided. I know what my policy says. Others who are asking the question here are getting conflicting advice and they should double check for their own peace of mind. The reason to go to a lawyer is to avoid getting cancelled talking to an agent just because of the spectre of contracting with a rideshare company. I'm not able to speak to any other state but mine, or any other situation but mine.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

If you say so. Uber has already screwed over at least one person. I will pray for the safety of you and your property.


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## DriverJ

Randy Shear said:


> "NegativeNancysWhoHateUberUnite".


Where do I join?


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## Bart McCoy

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> No, they should rely on their insurance company, the entity with which they have entered into a contract. Alternatively, you could read your contract. I'm sure it states very specifically that vehicles engaged in livery operations of any kind are not covered.
> .


Yes, this may be true, but Uber's insurance covers us while engaged in livery operations....correct?


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## DriverJ

Bart McCoy said:


> Yes, this may be true, but Uber's insurance covers while you engaged in livery operations....correct?


Yeah, Uber's got your back - but when you feel hands on your shoulders - RUN!


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## Randy Shear

CityGirl said:


> @DOTW, Obviously people who fear getting cancelled do not want to ask their insurance companies because they don't want to clue them in. Also, there are differing opinions being expressed and the best resolution is to ask a lawyer in your state. Yes, you do want to be *that* sure. People who do not know what an insurance declaration page looks like (that was one the OP posted) or whether the cops will take it (they will) need better clarification than posting a wild guess and believing other wild guesses.


Thank you, thank you, thank you. I've been ignoring this thread for some time now, because I'm tired of trying to provide useful information, and discussion, when all people here want to do is pass around guesses as facts. I don't have time for that crap. Absolutely, 100% ASK A LAWYER. Where is the fraud in asking an attorney a question?


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## Randy Shear

Bart McCoy said:


> Yes, this may be true, but Uber's insurance covers while you engaged in livery operations....correct?


Correct. Please, completely ignore DOTWU. He provides very little, if any useful information.


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## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> So you want to ask a lawyer about helping you with insurance fraud? This isn't very complicated. Personal auto insurance does not cover livery operations. If you are afraid to ask your insurance company, that means you already think you are in the wrong, so it sounds like the question is answered.


Are you some kind of special needs case? Let me type REALLY BIG FOR YOU...

*THERE IS NO INSURANCE FRAUD TAKING PLACE. UBER COVERS US WHILE TRANSPORTING PEOPLE FOR HIRE. PERIOD. PERSONAL INSURANCE DOES NOT COVER FOR HIRE RIDES. WE ALL KNOW THIS!!! 
*
Are you up to speed with the rest of us now???


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## Randy Shear

CityGirl said:


> Don't be ridiculous, no one here wants anything to do with insurance fraud. I'd be very afraid of driving without coverage. Based on my review of the documents it is clear to me that I'm covered. Anyone who has questions should get professional advice because there is a lot at stake. They should not rely on the unknown experience of strangers pontificating on a message board....


I wish I could like 1000 times. Thank you.


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## Bart McCoy

Randy Shear said:


> Are you some kind of special needs case? Let me type REALLY BIG FOR YOU...
> 
> *THERE IS NO INSURANCE FRAUD TAKING PLACE. UBER COVERS US WHILE TRANSPORTING PEOPLE FOR HIRE. PERIOD. PERSONAL INSURANCE DOES NOT COVER FOR HIRE RIDES. WE ALL KNOW THIS!!!
> *
> Are you up to speed with the rest of us now???


THIS
Becuase if it was insurace fraud like people are saying, that means if we were carrying a passenger for Uber and they got hurt, we would ask our personal insurance to pay for it. But in reality, if we got into an accident "on the job", we would use Uber's insurance right? I mean Uber is covering from app on.....to pick up and drive pax.....to app off.

I understand the peronsal insurance companies concern is about people driving to the hot ping locations before app on. But the worse case scenario would be having an at fault accident, with a pax,but Uber covers that event, and your personal insurance doesnt pay anything anyway....right?


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## Randy Shear

Bart McCoy said:


> THIS
> Becuase if it was insurace fraud like people are saying, that means if we were carrying a passenger for Uber and they got hurt, we would ask our personal insurance to pay for it. But in reality, if we got into an accident "on the job", we would use Uber's insurance right? I mean Uber is covering from app on.....to pick up and drive pax.....to app off.
> 
> I understand the peronsal insurance companies concern is about people driving to the hot ping locations before app on. But the worse case scenario would be having an at fault accident, with a pax,but Uber covers that event, and your personal insurance doesnt pay anything anyway....right?


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## Randy Shear

http://blog.uber.com/uberXridesharinginsurance


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## Randy Shear

The only issue I see here is as stated before: Property damage...


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## nspunx4

Looking at it again the one million is a combined single limit so property damage could come out of that. My concerns are still two fold

1. James rivers contract is with Uber or raiser so as a driver you may not have standing to sue them if they refuse to pay. You may be able to sue uber but if they someday go into bankruptcy or something you may not be able to directly to after James river 

2. As a surplus lines company James river is only regulated in its home state. It does not pay into other states insolvency funds so if James river ever goes in bankruptcy claims may not get paid. 

I think those are no bs reasonable concerns.

My question is why don't they spend a little more of that 40 billion and buy a non owned autos policy from companies admitted in the states they do business in?


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## DriverJ

Bart McCoy said:


> THIS
> Becuase if it was insurace fraud like people are saying, that means if we were carrying a passenger for Uber and they got hurt, we would ask our personal insurance to pay for it. But in reality, if we got into an accident "on the job", we would use Uber's insurance right? I mean Uber is covering from app on.....to pick up and drive pax.....to app off.
> 
> I understand the peronsal insurance companies concern is about people driving to the hot ping locations before app on. But the worse case scenario would be having an at fault accident, with a pax,but Uber covers that event, and your personal insurance doesnt pay anything anyway....right?


Uber has got you covered. I'm not even sure why anyone would question them. They're all about their drivers.


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## Randy Shear

DriverJ said:


> Uber has got you covered. I'm not even sure why anyone would question them. They're all about their drivers.


How about reading the documents pertaining to the policy? Your reply contains no information regarding the question posed by @Bart McCoy. Just useless, empty sarcasm.


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## CityGirl

Randy Shear said:


> The only issue I see here is as stated before: Property damage...


That was my initial concern last night but upon further review I found the page you posted above and I came to the conclusion that we are fine. So, regarding property damage, take a look at the photo and the rest of the webpage that you posted. The third section says at the bottom (and the text below it on the webpage clarifies) that IF your personal insurance does not cover your property damage, Uber's will cover your property damage also, at the same amount that you purchased for your personal insurance, up to the 50,000 limit (which is the highest in any state). The only downside is that Uber's coverage has a $1000 deductible, whereas your personal deductible may be more or less, depending on what you chose for yourself.

I can only speak for myself, because I don't want to give legal advice, but based on this information, I am satisified that I and my passengers and any third parties I might injure if I were at fault, will be covered by the $1M Uber policy. Further, anyone injured in my vehicle, including me, by an uninsured driver will also be covered by the $1M Uber policy. And finally, if my personal insurance denies coverage for property damage, Uber's policy will pick that up as contingent/secondary coverage.

I hope that explanation is helpful. I would be happy to discuss serious questions further.


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## Bart McCoy

CityGirl said:


> That was my initial concern last night but upon further review I found the page you posted above and I came to the conclusion that we are fine. So, regarding property damage, take a look at the photo and the rest of the webpage that you posted. The third section says at the bottom (and the text below it on the webpage clarifies) that IF your personal insurance does not cover your property damage, Uber's will cover your property damage also, at the same amount that you purchased for your personal insurance, up to the 50,000 limit (which is the highest in any state). The only downside is that Uber's coverage has a $1000 deductible, whereas your personal deductible may be more or less, depending on what you chose for yourself.
> 
> I can only speak for myself, because I don't want to give legal advice, but based on this information, I am satisified that I and my passengers and any third parties I might injure if I were at fault, will be covered by the $1M Uber policy. Further, anyone injured in my vehicle, including me, by an uninsured driver will also be covered by the $1M Uber policy. And finally, if my personal insurance denies coverage for property damage, Uber's policy will pick that up as contingent/secondary coverage.
> 
> I hope that explanation is helpful. I would be happy to discuss serious questions further.


sounds about right
but ouch at that $1000/deductible


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## CityGirl

nspunx4 said:


> Looking at it again the one million is a combined single limit so property damage could come out of that. My concerns are still two fold
> 
> 1. James rivers contract is with Uber or raiser so as a driver you may not have standing to sue them if they refuse to pay. You may be able to sue uber but if they someday go into bankruptcy or something you may not be able to directly to after James river
> 
> 2. As a surplus lines company James river is only regulated in its home state. It does not pay into other states insolvency funds so if James river ever goes in bankruptcy claims may not get paid.
> 
> I think those are no bs reasonable concerns.
> 
> My question is why don't they spend a little more of that 40 billion and buy a non owned autos policy from companies admitted in the states they do business in?


Interesting take. 
First, the million is personal injury only. It would not include property damage. That is the primary coverage.
Secondary/contingent to that, is Uber's property damage up to $50,000 if your personal insurance won't pay (they won't).

1. Based on the language on page 2 of the declarations page, you *are* a named insured and you do have standing to sue the insurance company if they don't provide coverage for some reason.
2. I need to look into this further, but each state does admit the carriers and rates them. If James River goes bankrupt, they are only the broker. You'd want to worry about the underlying insurance company...and you'd have the same problem anyone else has when insurance companies go bankrupt, the state puts them into receivership and handles all the claims from a pool. More importantly, commercial lines and other major insurers are required by each state to purchase reinsurance after a certain level of exposure. AIG is a major provider of reinsurance, and you remember the government bailed out AIG, right? So that the entire investment system that is known as insurance (you didn't think they were trying to sell you auto coverage, right? You know they reinvested your premiums in real estate) would not collapse. You have the same risk dealing with any insurance company. I don't think this will realistically happen. You buy State Farm or Mercury or whatever and you never give their solvency a second thought.


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## DriverJ

Randy Shear said:


> How about reading the documents pertaining to the policy? Your reply contains no information regarding the question posed by @Bart McCoy. Just useless, empty sarcasm.


Sorry, but the sarcasm is about all I've got. There is the anger and sadness over seeing how Uber and others operate, but the sarcasm is definitely my strong suit.


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## Killeen Ubur

I love high school....and girl's just look the same


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## roadrunner70

CityGirl said:


> That was my initial concern last night but upon further review I found the page you posted above and I came to the conclusion that we are fine.


When I first started for Uber, I also thought I was "fine". After considerable research, I'm not as "fine" as I thought I was.

First, you are 100 percent correct that you are covered by a $1M BI/UIM policy if you are driving to a fare, or have that fare in your car. As stated before, property damage coverage only applies if your personal insurance has a provision for collision coverage, and the limits are either $50K if your policy has the same or higher limits, or it is the same limits as your policy if it is lower. There is a $1K deductible.

What many people are not paying attention to is the time in which you are logged on to the app and waiting for a fare. This is called Period 1. Uber considers your insurance policy to be primary in this case. They even state that the plain language of most insurance policies covers this period. In many states this is absolutely not true. In many states, no personal coverage is provided at any time if you Uber or Lyft, even one day a month. Some insurance companies have said they will deny claims outright if they find out you do any ridesharing with your vehicle, and others say they will decide on a case-by-case basis, and there are no guarantees of anything. Yes, Uber will provide coverage with limits of 50/100/25 if your personal policy denies a claim that happens during Period 1, but when your personal insurance finds out you were Ubering, you will be cancelled, not allowed to renew, your rates will drastically increase, or a combination of all 3.

Many people do not realize this. They do not realize that if an accident occurs during Period 1, Uber is going to expect you to get your insurance involved. Once you get denied, they will take over. The act of informing your insurance company is going to cause many people major issues.

Every person who drives for Uber or Lyft needs to check with their insurance company before doing so. If more people did, there would be far fewer drivers on the road (if they were smart). In most states, all that would be left are the full-timers who already have commercial insurance.


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## DriverJ

Randy Shear said:


>


Whew, you've got an Uber generated graphic, that eases my mind. I doubt you'd even need the actual policy with that jewel in hand. That's the same style graphic they use on the weekly summary. The one where they used to get about 80% of my hours worked screwed up. You could guess and do better than they did. I think *Opie* from *The Family Guy* may work at Uber in the graphics department. At least this graphic only has three panels - Logged On * Accepts Trip * Ends Trip. Who could mess that up? Not even Opie.

I really hope that few have to rely on Uber and their James River insurance, but unfortunately the numbers dictate that won't be the case. We already know how private insurance sees this outlaw operation. When there's an accident, and if your private insurance finds out your car is used for hire, I'd bet Uber and James River will be all you have. Think there's a chance they may try to say you weren't operating for Uber at the time? I do. They may end up paying something, but I bet it would be long and painful.

Guess you could have a lawyer call and threaten them with litigation though, oh...maybe not. Do they have a mailing address? Maybe the general vicinity were you could drop something by Carrier pigeon? Doesn't the facts that they lie excessively, screw their drivers, and have zero regard for anything other than money send up a red flag?

Yep, I'm sarcastic, I'm bitter, I'm pretty well irritated, but I wasn't before I started this crap. I went into it with the best of intentions. I would have been Uber's number one cheerleader, but they chose to take it the other way. I've said it many times, but knowing what this could have been, then seeing what they've made it, is sickening.


----------



## CityGirl

roadrunner70 said:


> When I first started for Uber, I also thought I was "fine". After considerable research, I'm not as "fine" as I thought I was.
> 
> First, you are 100 percent correct that you are covered by a $1M BI/UIM policy if you are driving to a fare, or have that fare in your car. As stated before, property damage coverage only applies if your personal insurance has a provision for collision coverage, and the limits are either $50K if your policy has the same or higher limits, or it is the same limits as your policy if it is lower. There is a $1K deductible.
> 
> What many people are not paying attention to is the time in which you are logged on to the app and waiting for a fare. This is called Period 1. Uber considers your insurance policy to be primary in this case. They even state that the plain language of most insurance policies covers this period. In many states this is absolutely not true. In many states, no personal coverage is provided at any time if you Uber or Lyft, even one day a month. Some insurance companies have said they will deny claims outright if they find out you do any ridesharing with your vehicle, and others say they will decide on a case-by-case basis, and there are no guarantees of anything. Yes, Uber will provide coverage with limits of 50/100/25 if your personal policy denies a claim that happens during Period 1, but when your personal insurance finds out you were Ubering, you will be cancelled, not allowed to renew, your rates will drastically increase, or a combination of all 3.
> 
> Many people do not realize this. They do not realize that if an accident occurs during Period 1, Uber is going to expect you to get your insurance involved. Once you get denied, they will take over. The act of informing your insurance company is going to cause many people major issues.
> 
> Every person who drives for Uber or Lyft needs to check with their insurance company before doing so. If more people did, there would be far fewer drivers on the road (if they were smart). In most states, all that would be left are the full-timers who already have commercial insurance.


I can't disagree with you there. However, for the immediate need, the coverage is there. There is no reason you wouldn't be able to change companies and get different coverage after an accident, and provided it was not your fault, the rates would not be impacted. Remember, it cost the insurance company nothing to not pay you, so they may not even cancel you. I think a lot of people are getting worried about being cancelled for asking the question. In any case, there is legislation in the works to account for this kind of business by revising insurance policies. The picture may look different in January. No doubt commercial coverage would be best. I have not checked the rates. *That* would be a great question for an insurance agent, does commercial cover Uber drivers in that Phase 1 period? Hmm!


----------



## roadrunner70

CityGirl said:


> I can't disagree with you there. However, for the immediate need, the coverage is there. There is no reason you wouldn't be able to change companies and get different coverage after an accident, and provided it was not your fault, the rates would not be impacted. Remember, it cost the insurance company nothing to not pay you, so they may not even cancel you. I think a lot of people are getting worried about being cancelled for asking the question. In any case, there is legislation in the works to account for this kind of business by revising insurance policies. The picture may look different in January. No doubt commercial coverage would be best. I have not checked the rates. *That* would be a great question for an insurance agent, does commercial cover Uber drivers in that Phase 1 period? Hmm!


Commercial insurance covers the driver and vehicle at all times, regardless of the Periods that ridesharing creates.

It is true that you might not be cancelled, but in Florida, the insurance companies are taking a strong stance against ridesharing. It appears they are much more lenient in other states. My concern, since I am in Florida, is that I could have an accident while I was not doing anything at all for a ridesharing company. During the investigation, through no fault of my own, they could discover I was using my car for ridesharing at other times. In that case, they could deny the claim. I know it sounds ridiculous, but every insurance company I contacted said that any commercial use of the vehicle, even once, requires the vehicle to be insured by a commercial policy. I did not make that statement up; I heard it from several insurance companies.

The problem is that technology has moved too fast for the insurance companies, and they are slow to catch up. My personal situation will not allow me to take any risks with my current insurance. My insurance offers awesome coverages for a reasonable price. I drove for Uber for awhile, but now that I have done the research I feel I need to stop. I am going to work New Year's Eve, though. There's just too much money out there for me not to.


----------



## Randy Shear

DriverJ said:


> Whew, you've got an Uber generated graphic, that eases my mind. I doubt you'd even need the actual policy with that jewel in hand. That's the same style graphic they use on the weekly summary. The one where they used to get about 80% of my hours worked screwed up. You could guess and do better than they did. I think *Opie* from *The Family Guy* may work at Uber in the graphics department. At least this graphic only has three panels - Logged On * Accepts Trip * Ends Trip. Who could mess that up? Not even Opie.
> 
> I really hope that few have to rely on Uber and their James River insurance, but unfortunately the numbers dictate that won't be the case. We already know how private insurance sees this outlaw operation. When there's an accident, and if your private insurance finds out your car is used for hire, I'd bet Uber and James River will be all you have. Think there's a chance they may try to say you weren't operating for Uber at the time? I do. They may end up paying something, but I bet it would be long and painful.
> 
> Guess you could have a lawyer call and threaten them with litigation though, oh...maybe not. Do they have a mailing address? Maybe the general vicinity were you could drop something by Carrier pigeon? Doesn't the facts that they lie excessively, screw their drivers, and have zero regard for anything other than money send up a red flag?
> 
> Yep, I'm sarcastic, I'm bitter, I'm pretty well irritated, but I wasn't before I started this crap. I went into it with the best of intentions. I would have been Uber's number one cheerleader, but they chose to take it the other way. I've said it many times, but knowing what this could have been, then seeing what they've made it, is sickening.


This entire paragraph was a waste of reading, and quite honestly pathetic. I'm sick of all of you piss poor cry babies, constantly whining about how Uber mistreated, and abused you. Buck up. I'm 34 years old, and you guys are acting like children. My 9 year old has more constitution that most here, and my 9 y/o is a girl. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. IF IT'S THAT BAD, QUIT!!! STOP!!! DON'T DRIVE ANY MORE!! This is a black / white scenario guys. Do or don't. There is no middle ground. If Uber is sooooo horrible, STOP DRIVING, and complain until the tears stop falling from your baby faces. If it's still worth doing, then get out there and make your money.

We all need to vent every now and then, and that's healthy. But jumping on here to criticize ANY / EVERY positive remark regarding Uber is ridiculous, disobliging, immature, and most importantly unhelpful. This is not constructive in any way at all to this forum. This forum is here to HELP people. There is an entire section dedicated to complaining about Uber. That is where all of your complaints need to be filed, not in the general forum where people are looking for help / advice. Period.

GROW UP.

-Uber Man


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Randy Shear said:


> Are you some kind of special needs case? Let me type REALLY BIG FOR YOU...
> 
> *THERE IS NO INSURANCE FRAUD TAKING PLACE. UBER COVERS US WHILE TRANSPORTING PEOPLE FOR HIRE. PERIOD. PERSONAL INSURANCE DOES NOT COVER FOR HIRE RIDES. WE ALL KNOW THIS!!!
> *
> Are you up to speed with the rest of us now???


Except you're wrong. Ever heard of this guy?
http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/12...-herrera-et-al-v-uber-technologies-inc-et-al/
His car was totaled. Insurance denied him. Uber denied him. He was out in the cold.
The Uber insurance policy is a total sham. Not legally binding in any way. They will pay you if they want. They will deny you if they want. It's not protection.

But by all means, go ahead and trust the fox with your chickens.


----------



## CityGirl

roadrunner70 said:


> Commercial insurance covers the driver and vehicle at all times, regardless of the Periods that ridesharing creates.
> 
> It is true that you might not be cancelled, but in Florida, the insurance companies are taking a strong stance against ridesharing. It appears they are much more lenient in other states. My concern, since I am in Florida, is that I could have an accident while I was not doing anything at all for a ridesharing company. During the investigation, through no fault of my own, they could discover I was using my car for ridesharing at other times. In that case, they could deny the claim. I know it sounds ridiculous, but every insurance company I contacted said that any commercial use of the vehicle, even once, requires the vehicle to be insured by a commercial policy. I did not make that statement up; I heard it from several insurance companies.
> 
> The problem is that technology has moved too fast for the insurance companies, and they are slow to catch up. My personal situation will not allow me to take any risks with my current insurance. My insurance offers awesome coverages for a reasonable price. I drove for Uber for awhile, but now that I have done the research I feel I need to stop. I am going to work New Year's Eve, though. There's just too much money out there for me not to.


Yes! One needs commercial insurance to do this gig. Uber provides said commercial insurance.


----------



## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Except you're wrong. Ever heard of this guy?
> http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/12...-herrera-et-al-v-uber-technologies-inc-et-al/
> His car was totaled. Insurance denied him. Uber denied him. He was out in the cold.
> The Uber insurance policy is a total sham. Not legally binding in any way. They will pay you if they want. They will deny you if they want. It's not protection.
> 
> But by all means, go ahead and trust the fox with your chickens.


Or, perhaps sue the insurance company.. There's a thought.. You're not dealing with the typical Uber idiot here Nancy. See, I have a lawyer here in OKC. I met him on an Uber ride. He lives just down from me. Him and I have gone back and forth with this, and he says I'm good. He also said if they deny the claim, give him a call. He specializes in auto insurance / accidents. But hey, good you can quote a news channel, which we all know always tells the truth.


----------



## CityGirl

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Except you're wrong. Ever heard of this guy?
> http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/12...-herrera-et-al-v-uber-technologies-inc-et-al/
> His car was totaled. Insurance denied him. Uber denied him. He was out in the cold.
> The Uber insurance policy is a total sham. Not legally binding in any way. They will pay you if they want. They will deny you if they want. It's not protection.
> 
> But by all means, go ahead and trust the fox with your chickens.


Did you change the link? When I attempted to click on it, it was a case from Los Angeles and then it changed to SF.

You need to keep more current information. After the accident on NYE, Uber changed its insurance policy and the updates that apply to us now are what has been stated here. What was in place in 2013 may not have been adequate because it didn't address Phase 1.

If anything, it seems Uber has risen to prominence without having ironed out all the details it should have, but it's falling into place now. The insurance climate as we have stated it is just that you may get cancelled, but you are covered until then!


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Randy Shear said:


> Or, perhaps sue the insurance company.. There's a thought.. You're not dealing with the typical Uber idiot here Nancy. See, I have a lawyer here in OKC. I met him on an Uber ride. He lives just down from me. Him and I have gone back and forth with this, and he says I'm good. He also said if they deny the claim, give him a call. He specializes in auto insurance / accidents. But hey, good you can quote a news channel, which we all know always tells the truth.


I hope you enjoy a long, drawn out court battle when Uber denies your claim then.

Honestly though, I hope it doesn't happen to you bro. Just looking out for you .



CityGirl said:


> Did you change the link? When I attempted to click on it, it was a case from Los Angeles and then it changed to SF.


Yes, I put the wrong one in.


----------



## Randy Shear

CityGirl said:


> Did you change the link? When I attempted to click on it, it was a case from Los Angeles and then it changed to SF.
> 
> You need to keep more current information. After the accident on NYE, Uber changed its insurance policy and the updates that apply to us now are what has been stated here. What was in place in 2013 may not have been adequate because it didn't address Phase 1.
> 
> If anything, it seems Uber has risen to prominence without having ironed out all the details it should have, but it's falling into place now. The insurance climate as we have stated it is just that you may get cancelled, but you are covered until then!


I skimmed through the case file. It's rather short, and something there is VERY wrong. The driver, which had PAX in the car, on an official run, wrecked. Then filed the claim with his personal carrier. Not Uber's COMM carrier. I have Uber's commercial policy, and my 1st step would be to contact James River. Even the case file has no record of the commercial policy. Someone screwed up.


----------



## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> I hope you enjoy a long, drawn out court battle when Uber denies your claim then.
> 
> Honestly though, I hope it doesn't happen to you bro. Just looking out for you .
> 
> Yes, I put the wrong one in.


I absolutely love going to court. I hope not under these circumstances, as I wish no one harm. But I do love a good fight, and debate. I've won EVERY civil suit against me, and filed by me. Hell I even filed my own divorce petition, and decree. I got everything I asked for.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Oh and God forbid you get into a really tragic accident, because then not only will Uber not pay you a dime, they will deny that you were even a partner with them.
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Uber-denies-fault-in-S-F-crash-that-killed-girl-5458290.php


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## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Oh and God forbid you get into a really tragic accident, because then not only will Uber not pay you a dime, they will deny that you were even a partner with them.
> http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Uber-denies-fault-in-S-F-crash-that-killed-girl-5458290.php


Uber updated their policy March 14, 2014. You are posting accidents prior to the NEW policy. Next?


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## Randy Shear

As I said, my lawyer already checked this out, and if he says I'm ok, then I'm comfortable. He told me no matter what, if ever in an accident, go to the hospital, and then call him. That is exactly what I will do. He also said rideshare insurance is in the works here. In Oklahoma, he claims current carriers will be adding a rideshare option / hybrid to standard policies. Since I'm driving a $26K car for UberX I have comp / coll, and if I wreck ubering, then I can fall back on James River when my current carrier denies my claim. Then again, with 7 vehicles on the policy, shelling out $4900 every 6 months, perhaps my coverage would continue. Let's hope I don't have to find out.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Randy Shear said:


> Uber updated their policy March 14, 2014. You are posting accidents prior to the NEW policy. Next?


The problem with this http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance is twofold:

A) It requires trusting Uber, which is a major red flag right there.

B) It ASSUMES your personal auto insurance is going to be cooperative. Guess what? They are not interested in covering your car when you are not Ubering. And they don't have to, because once you start Ubering with that car, you are violating your contract. They have every right to drop you.


----------



## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> The problem with this http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance is twofold:
> 
> A) It requires trusting Uber, which is a major red flag right there.
> 
> B) It ASSUMES your personal auto insurance is going to be cooperative. Guess what? They are not interested in covering your car when you are not Ubering. And they don't have to, because once you start Ubering with that car, you are violating your contract. They have every right to drop you.


So, you know insurance law in my state better then my lawyer? You are full of surprises! I'll opt to listen to the man who passed the BAR here in Oklahoma, over some person on a forum that consistently attempts to find flaws with Uber. And who's trusting Uber? I trust the INSURANCE COMPANY that provides the commercial coverage.

It assumes they (my personal ins) are not interested in covering my car when I'm not ubering?? Huh? They've covered me for years, with no incident. Ever. When I've needed them, they took care of it. Why are we talking about while NOT driving for Uber? This is about DURING driving for Uber.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Randy Shear said:


> So, you know insurance law in my state better then my lawyer? You are full of surprises! I'll opt to listen to the man who passed the BAR here in Oklahoma, over some person on a forum that consistently attempts to find flaws with Uber. And who's trusting Uber? I trust the INSURANCE COMPANY that provides the commercial coverage.


If you are so damn sure, call your insurance company. Oh wait, you won't. Because like it or not, you are attempting to collect on an insurance fraud. If you attempt to collect on your Uber car's personal auto insurance policy at ANY point in the future, that is a crime.


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## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> If you are so damn sure, call your insurance company. Oh wait, you won't. Because like it or not, you are attempting to collect on an insurance fraud. If you attempt to collect on your Uber car's personal auto insurance policy at ANY point in the future, that is a crime.


Look, it's obvious your boat is running out of steam here. I've debunked the 2 cases you tossed at me, now you want to argue with my lawyer. LAWYER, as in law degree in my state. Funny he never mentioned insurance fraud to me. See, If I am upfront when filing the claim, there is NO fraud. I'll give you an A for effort, but ultimately you have lost this debate. Your 2 cases have no merit due to the new policy, and now you're just tossing empty hearsay around like it's a fact. Do you have any other "facts" to prove your case? If not, good day.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Randy Shear said:


> Look, it's obvious your boat is running out of steam here. I've debunked the 2 cases you tossed at me, now you want to argue with my lawyer. LAWYER, as in law degree in my state. Funny he never mentioned insurance fraud to me. See, If I am upfront when filing the claim, there is NO fraud. I'll give you an A for effort, but ultimately you have lost this debate. Your 2 cases have no merit due to the new policy, and now you're just tossing empty hearsay around like it's a fact. Do you have any other "facts" to prove your case? If not, good day.


Well if you're honest they'll just deny you. Good day indeed.


----------



## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Well if you're honest they'll just deny you. Good day indeed.


As stated before, an accident on my private time, during personal use, does not affect my personal policy. But hey, maybe my lawyer, who specializes in OK insurance law, has no clue what he's talking about. Still, I'll listen to him.

- Uber Man


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Randy Shear said:


> As stated before, an accident on my private time, during personal use, does not affect my personal policy. But hey, maybe my lawyer, who specializes in OK insurance law, has no clue what he's talking about. Still, I'll listen to him.
> 
> - Uber Man


You should write this plan down and send it to your insurance company. I'm sure they would hail you as a model customer. They may even give you a discount on your rate!


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## Randy Shear

What Uber has is a Commercial auto liability policy that covers non owned autos. There is nothing sinister about it. As long as the policy conforms to state law (which they all do since they have a clause that states it will conform to state law) then it is fine.
Now, the real issue is claims handling procedures and claims made against Uber for unfair claims practices. One would hope they are smart enough to not engage is shady claims handling practices.
Most consumers are not educated on insurance. There is a coverage issue relying on a personal auto policy while driving around waiting for a ping. once you get the ping, you are covered for liability arising out of your driving 9what the law requires)
personal policies don't cover livery or pizza delivery etc because while engaged in business, your business policy, or your employers business policy covers you (like pizza hut delivery drivers).
The uniqueness here is that typically most livery operators do not use their "daily driver" to haul people around, they use a town car bus limo etc. So now you have cars that need both personal auto and commercial auto for sole proprietors that are not incorporated. that is where regulators and insurers are throwing a hissy fit (I think they are blowing it out of proportion though).
The need in the marketplace will be filled by a hybrid policy that or endorsement for a minimal cost in the near future. The big issue is livery regulations. Uber needs to be treated like a limo/town car operation, not a taxi, taxi companies want it treated like a taxi so they can be crushed.

Borrowed from @John_in_kc


----------



## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> You should write this plan down and send it to your insurance company. I'm sure they would hail you as a model customer. They may even give you a discount on your rate!


I pay $4900 every 6 months. I get a hell of a deal already.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Randy Shear said:


> One would hope they are smart enough to not engage is shady claims handling practices.


We also had hope in America. Then the Torture Report came out today.



Randy Shear said:


> I pay $4900 every 6 months. I get a hell of a deal already.


Cool. So send them your plan then? I mean, I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to be forthcoming with these people who are treating you so nicely.


----------



## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> We also had hope in America. Then the Torture Report came out today.


Off topic much?


DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Cool. So send them your plan then? I mean, I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to be forthcoming with these people who are treating you so nicely.


To what end?? As in, what's the purpose?


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Randy Shear said:


> To what end?? As in, what's the purpose?


To be honest & forthcoming with these people. Isn't that the right thing to do? And if they have a problem with this arrangement, it would be best to know sooner rather than later right? I mean, if they don't approve of what you're doing, you would want to find a different policy, correct?


----------



## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> To be honest & forthcoming with these people. Isn't that the right thing to do? And if they have a problem with this arrangement, it would be best to know sooner rather than later right? I mean, if they don't approve of what you're doing, you would want to find a different policy, correct?


Your sarcasm cracks me up. I'm sure no one of sound mind has volunteered this to their insurance company. This is a time of change, and transition within the insurance industry. It's time to leave well enough alone, and wait for insurance to catch up with the technology. Have you ever volunteered traffic violations to the police? Yeah.. If an accident happens to me, I'll provide details.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Randy Shear said:


> Your sarcasm cracks me up. I'm sure no one of sound mind has volunteered this to their insurance company. This is a time of change, and transition within the insurance industry. It's time to leave well enough alone, and wait for insurance to catch up with the technology. Have you ever volunteered traffic violations to the police? Yeah.. If an accident happens to me, I'll provide details.


Now you are just justifying your illicit behavior. This is why cops need to call insurance companies after every encounter with an Uber or Lyft driver.


----------



## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Now you are just justifying your illicit behavior. This is why cops need to call insurance companies after every encounter with an Uber or Lyft driver.


Call the cops, and tell them how, and what their job is. LMK how that works out for you. You're drifting on a boat long out of fuel. Fact: Driving with Uber I have James River providing commercial coverage. Fact: Driving on my personal time I have my own insurance. Fact: Your 2 cases were before the new Uber policy. Fact: You brought the Torture Report in to this, because you were running on fumes.

The End

Game Over

Good night, it was fun.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

yeah good night I'll see you later.


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## Randy Shear

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> yeah good night I'll see you later.


----------



## nspunx4

The certificate I saw has 1 mil listed under combined single not split level (per person/per occurrence/property damage) limits which at least in mass CSL includes property damage. I'm talking another persons property which is quite different from collision coverage which protects your car the fact that some of you don't even understand the basic definitions really makes me afraid for you guys and the risk you may be taking. 

James river is the listed insurance company not the agent the company like Allstate, geico, or State Farm

Uber represents it's policy as having the ability to operate as primary auto liability coverage which at least in mass violates MGL.

Did you sign a contract with James river? I would be very cautious about relying on a certificate as my experience is they are given out like candy. Fwiw I give certificates to every city I operate in listing them as addl and some corporate customers request them. My attorney tells me that in the event of an incident they would still be forced to go through us to sue our ins. Co.


----------



## DriverJ

roadrunner70 said:


> My concern, since I am in Florida, is that I could have an accident while I was not doing anything at all for a ridesharing company. During the investigation, through no fault of my own, they could discover I was using my car for ridesharing at other times. In that case, they could deny the claim. I know it sounds ridiculous, but every insurance company I contacted said that any commercial use of the vehicle, even once, requires the vehicle to be insured by a commercial policy. I did not make that statement up; I heard it from several insurance companies.


Thank You

I'm afraid some are going to have a rude awakening when the inevitable happens.


----------



## DriverJ

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Oh and God forbid you get into a really tragic accident, because then not only will Uber not pay you a dime, they will deny that you were even a partner with them.
> http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Uber-denies-fault-in-S-F-crash-that-killed-girl-5458290.php


In 54 years here, I've found guys like that, obtuse and combative, you can't really talk sense to. It's usually deep-rooted psychological issues. It's not a matter of them not understanding something, but only about them being right. If it's raining, but they decide it's not, well, put away your umbrella and enjoy the beautiful day. His type is only looking for a fight. It sounds as though his life is about chaos, conflict, turmoil, confusion, deceit, and (obviously) confrontation. Maybe that's why he enjoys Uber so much. It doesn't surprise me that he filed his own divorce papers, it just surprises me he got someone to marry him! That must have been one patient guy. No wonder he got everything he wanted, I'm about ready to settle with him myself just to leave here!


----------



## chi1cabby

Walkersm said:


> Yes that is the issue. And further the real issue is this: In an accident with an Uber passenger you do not want to show or even should not have to mention your personal insurance. You should just be able to take out Ubers cert and say here contact these guys. But it wont pass muster most of the time. Most of the time the police will force you to show your personal policy info, they get contacted, you get dropped. That's the real issue.
> 
> In the end you will get covered if Uber decides they want to cover you. And they do not feel like taking it to court if the other party is asking for to much ( i.e. Herrera Vs. Uber)





Big Machine said:


> Spoken like someone who is clearly ignorant on how it all works. Good job!


@Big Machine What part of @Walkersm post is "clearly ignorant of on how it all works"?


----------



## DriverJ

Randy Shear said:


> As stated before, an accident on my private time, during personal use, does not affect my personal policy. But hey, maybe my lawyer, who specializes in OK insurance law, has no clue what he's talking about. Still, I'll listen to him.
> 
> - Uber Man


Uber Man? I believe that's been taken. A few dozen times now.


----------



## DriverJ

Randy Shear said:


> It's time to leave well enough alone, and wait for insurance to catch up with the technology.


 WTF?

When you're stuck into a tree, just stick around, maybe some insurance will catch up to you. Sorry, but I don't need, nor want, insurance that has to 'catch up with the technology.'


----------



## John_in_kc

nspunx4 said:


> The certificate I saw has 1 mil listed under combined single not split level (per person/per occurrence/property damage) limits which at least in mass CSL includes property damage. I'm talking another persons property which is quite different from collision coverage which protects your car the fact that some of you don't even understand the basic definitions really makes me afraid for you guys and the risk you may be taking.
> 
> James river is the listed insurance company not the agent the company like Allstate, geico, or State Farm
> 
> Uber represents it's policy as having the ability to operate as primary auto liability coverage which at least in mass violates MGL.
> 
> Did you sign a contract with James river? I would be very cautious about relying on a certificate as my experience is they are given out like candy. Fwiw I give certificates to every city I operate in listing them as addl and some corporate customers request them. My attorney tells me that in the event of an incident they would still be forced to go through us to sue our ins. Co.


 Certificate holders merely get notice of cancellation etc. It does not confer any rights or coverage.
Claims still have to be brought and ins carriers are only legally liable to pay claims for liable conduct of the insured that is covered by the policy. Remember it is not how good your insurance is, it is how good your lawyer is. Also it is best to have your own insurance cause if you are the named insured and you are the one paying the premium you are the first party to the contract with all those rights that come with it.


----------



## nspunx4

Randy Shear said:


> Call the cops, and tell them how, and what their job is. LMK how that works out for you. You're drifting on a boat long out of fuel. Fact: Driving with Uber I have James River providing commercial coverage. Fact: Driving on my personal time I have my own insurance. Fact: Your 2 cases were before the new Uber policy. Fact: You brought the Torture Report in to this, because you were running on fumes.
> 
> The End
> 
> Game Over
> 
> Good night, it was fun.


I just received the following email

"Just heard on WBZ a message for rideshare drivers:
Frank OBrien from PCI telling them their primary insurance won't cover and that Uber and Lyft's $1Million policy is illegal in our state. He goes on to tell them they need to contact their agent and be very wary of assuming insurance will cover them in the event of an accident. "


----------



## Worcester Sauce

Bart McCoy said:


> sounds about right
> but ouch at that $1000/deductible





Randy Shear said:


>


It's really simply. Uber's $1 million policy will cover property damage EXCEPT to YOUR car. Uber's $1 million policy will cover personal injury claims EXCEPT for YOU. And we already know that your personal policy will NOT cover you (or your car) because you will have invalidated your policy by driving for hire (conveyance). Worth the risk for a minimum wage job?? Why are so many (seemingly otherwise intelligent people) willing to risk so much for $15 to $20 an hour. "Debating" the issue add nauseam on this forum ain't gonna change the fact that the calamitous risk is being assumed by the lowly Uber driver ALONE.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Worcester Sauce said:


> It's really simply. Uber's $1 million policy will cover property damage EXCEPT to YOUR car. Uber's $1 million policy will cover personal injury claims EXCEPT for YOU. And we already know that your personal policy will NOT cover you (or your car) because you will have invalidated your policy by driving for hire (conveyance). Worth the risk for a minimum wage job?? Why are so many (seemingly otherwise intelligent people) willing to risk so much for $15 to $20 an hour. "Debating" the issue add nauseam on this forum ain't gonna change the fact that the calamitous risk is being assumed by the lowly Uber driver ALONE.


so what's your suggestion, that everyone that doesnt have commerical insurance to seize Ubering right as of this moment?


----------



## DriverJ

nspunx4 said:


> I just received the following email
> 
> "Just heard on WBZ a message for rideshare drivers:
> Frank OBrien from PCI telling them their primary insurance won't cover and that Uber and Lyft's $1Million policy is illegal in our state. He goes on to tell them they need to contact their agent and be very wary of assuming insurance will cover them in the event of an accident. "


Screw that, Randy Shear and Uber said you're good to go.

James River couldn't be reached for comment. He took a Yellow Cab outta town.


----------



## DriverJ

Worcester Sauce said:


> It's really simply. Uber's $1 million policy will cover property damage EXCEPT to YOUR car. Uber's $1 million policy will cover personal injury claims EXCEPT for YOU. And we already know that your personal policy will NOT cover you (or your car) because you will have invalidated your policy by driving for hire (conveyance). Worth the risk for a minimum wage job?? Why are so many (seemingly otherwise intelligent people) willing to risk so much for $15 to $20 an hour. "Debating" the issue add nauseam on this forum ain't gonna change the fact that the calamitous risk is being assumed by the lowly Uber driver ALONE.


Please don't include me in there. I'm risking it all for much, much less.


----------



## DriverJ

Bart McCoy said:


> so what's your suggestion, that everyone that doesnt have commerical insurance to seize Ubering right as of this moment?


Unless you trust yourself, and every other driver on the road to never have an accident, it's a gamble, there's no doubt.


----------



## Randy Shear

DriverJ said:


> Uber Man? I believe that's been taken. A few dozen times now.


By me, over a year ago.


----------



## Randy Shear

DriverJ said:


> WTF?
> 
> When you're stuck into a tree, just stick around, maybe some insurance will catch up to you. Sorry, but I don't need, nor want, insurance that has to 'catch up with the technology.'


Then don't drive for Uber. It's not complicated. Well, perhaps for you it is.


----------



## Randy Shear

Worcester Sauce said:


> It's really simply. Uber's $1 million policy will cover property damage EXCEPT to YOUR car. Uber's $1 million policy will cover personal injury claims EXCEPT for YOU. And we already know that your personal policy will NOT cover you (or your car) because you will have invalidated your policy by driving for hire (conveyance). Worth the risk for a minimum wage job?? Why are so many (seemingly otherwise intelligent people) willing to risk so much for $15 to $20 an hour. "Debating" the issue add nauseam on this forum ain't gonna change the fact that the calamitous risk is being assumed by the lowly Uber driver ALONE.


Is it minimum wage, or $15 - $20 per hour? I'm confused by the contradiction ^^ here. I only work a maximum of eight hours a week. Weekends 12AM - 3:30AM usually. Very little traffic, little risk, and I am averaging well over $40/hr. For me, the risk is worth the pay.


----------



## haji

mickey mouse insurance!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Lidman

Donald duck insurance!!!!!!


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Bart McCoy said:


> so what's your suggestion, that everyone that doesnt have commerical insurance to seize Ubering right as of this moment?


That would be the responsible thing to do, yes. Find an employer or independent contractor partner that actually respects you and doesn't deceive you, relying on your ignorance to make money.



Randy Shear said:


> Is it minimum wage, or $15 - $20 per hour? I'm confused by the contradiction ^^ here. I only work a maximum of eight hours a week. Weekends 12AM - 3:30AM usually. Very little traffic, little risk, and I am averaging well over $40/hr. For me, the risk is worth the pay.


You mean the time when drunk driving is the most common? It never matters how good a driver you are. All it takes is one dumbass running a red light. That's why proper car insurance is required.


----------



## arto71

This is a hot topic if we continue to debate we can go days,however the truth is no single member here or anywhere else knows or heard that 
uber's insurance covered anything yet.


----------



## Berliner

DriverJ said:


> Screw that, Randy Shear and Uber said you're good to go.
> 
> James River couldn't be reached for comment. He took a Yellow Cab outta town.


Yeah, and from there he´s going to the airport, take a plane to Bermuda, where the James River Group Holdings, Ltd. is located.


----------



## DriverJ

Randy Shear said:


> Is it minimum wage, or $15 - $20 per hour? I'm confused by the contradiction ^^ here. I only work a maximum of eight hours a week. Weekends 12AM - 3:30AM usually. Very little traffic, little risk, and I am averaging well over $40/hr. For me, the risk is worth the pay.


_*The risk is worth the pay?*_ I thought there was no risk? I thought Goober and The Ronald McDonald Insurance Group had your back?

I'm sure they love your type in SF, Uber Boy. Yeah, they laugh at you, but they love ya, none-the-less.


----------



## Lidman

12am to 3am is bar rush hours where I work, so it not that difficult to make $30/40 hr in that time frame.

Of I'm driving for the cab company on the weekends. I don't have to concern myself with the insurance like I do with lyft.


----------



## Worcester Sauce

Bart McCoy said:


> so what's your suggestion, that everyone that doesnt have commerical insurance to seize Ubering right as of this moment?


I did. Seems to me that any responsible person would also.


----------



## Worcester Sauce

Randy Shear said:


> Is it minimum wage, or $15 - $20 per hour? I'm confused by the contradiction ^^ here. I only work a maximum of eight hours a week. Weekends 12AM - 3:30AM usually. Very little traffic, little risk, and I am averaging well over $40/hr. For me, the risk is worth the pay.


....then Uber on. Hope your luck holds out. Just don't keep your head in the sand too deep.


----------



## Tx rides

Randy Shear said:


> Named insured is Raiser LLC AKA Uber.


Randy, I didn't think there was any doubt left anymore about the commercial insurance covering the liability with the passenger during trip. Of course I may be wrong, I'm wrong often. But it is my understanding the problem which is still the elephant in the room is the liability coverage in between runs ( the contingent plan)
And, although Driver coverage is not a public safety issue Per se: from a driver's perspective, the lack of coverage for damages to you or your vehicle is still an issue.

Are there still debates going on about the actual commercial coverage during the trip for liability? The million dollar liability is on par with the requirements we have is a limo company in Austin. The difference is: we have that liability 24 x 7, no personal coverage involved.


----------



## Worcester Sauce

Randy Shear said:


> Is it minimum wage, or $15 - $20 per hour? I'm confused by the contradiction ^^ here. I only work a maximum of eight hours a week. Weekends 12AM - 3:30AM usually. Very little traffic, little risk, and I am averaging well over $40/hr. For me, the risk is worth the pay.


It is simply irresponsible for you (or anu


DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> That would be the responsible thing to do, yes. Find an employer or independent contractor partner that actually respects you and doesn't deceive you, relying on your ignorance to make money.
> 
> You mean the time when drunk driving is the most common? It never matters how good a driver you are. All it takes is one dumbass running a red light. That's why proper car insurance is required.


Well said. I applaud you.


----------



## MoneyUber4

Uber is really smart on getting us all to pay 20% for using their application over the internet. It is like using a video game made in China or India but you are here. 

The risk is incomparable. 

UBER risk is "0" Zero - a refurbish phone? valued at $25 dollars which you pay for it any way. UBER is only an application on that phone. 

Your RISK as a driver "Everything" Your money, your house, your life, your family. UBER risk is "0" Zero

No only that they call their Insurance Company "Cry Me a River" and based in Bermuda - that could be a PO Box only.. Who knows? 
I hope is not or all we will be really "crying a river" when we get dump by our insurance carrier for doing an illegal business. 

But since UBER is only an application on your phone - I am pretty sure there will be more applications coming soon that will challenge UBER. 
And I hope their fees could be only 2 (two) % instead of 20%. I do not know why they have to charge us 20% when the one at risk are us. No wonder why the investor want to give them money. UBER risk is "0" Zero

I hope that new company to be a real responsible company that can provide us with proper Taxi Insurance liability so we do not have to hide from the police or make a miss declaration in order to get coverage. 

In some States, the Police has the power to confiscate your vehicle if they find out you are providing an illegal service. 
Hoboken, New Jersey ticket is $1,250 - I saw one driver in court with 3 tickets. Now in New York, they will take your car + court.


----------



## DriverJ

MoneyUber4 said:


> Uber is really smart on getting us all to pay 20% for using their application over the internet. It is like using a video game made in China or India but you are here.
> 
> The risk is incomparable.
> 
> UBER risk is "0" Zero - a refurbish phone? valued at $25 dollars which you pay for it any way. UBER is only an application on that phone.
> 
> Your RISK as a driver "Everything" Your money, your house, your life, your family. UBER risk is "0" Zero
> 
> No only that they call their Insurance Company "Cry Me a River" and based in Bermuda - that could be a PO Box only.. Who knows?
> I hope is not or all we will be really "crying a river" when we get dump by our insurance carrier for doing an illegal business.
> 
> But since UBER is only an application on your phone - I am pretty sure there will be more applications coming soon that will challenge UBER.
> And I hope their fees could be only 2 (two) % instead of 20%. I do not know why they have to charge us 20% when the one at risk are us. No wonder why the investor want to give them money. UBER risk is "0" Zero
> 
> I hope that new company to be a real responsible company that can provide us with proper Taxi Insurance liability so we do not have to hide from the police or make a miss declaration in order to get coverage.
> 
> In some States, the Police has the power to confiscate your vehicle if they find out you are providing an illegal service.
> Hoboken, New Jersey ticket is $1,250 - I saw one driver in court with 3 tickets. Now in New York, they will take your car + court.


Uber isn't stupid in the regard that they know the money train won't keep going like this. They're getting every penny they can, any which way they can, before it starts drying up. People wanting to drive will have options. The public is becoming educated about Uber, and most can relate to 'the working man.' The new primary option may even be 'Uber' under quality management, and hopefully re-branded!

In my fantasy land there would be some type of open source rideshare app, with affordable commercial insurance also available. A nominal percentage of the fares would go to the developers, a fund to pay into to be covered by the insurance, and to support the app. There would be REASONABLE fares, but the drivers would truly be IC's. It may have to go city by city, but it would sure as hell be a better option than what we have now. Better for everyone except Uber.

Of course, in my fantasy land I'd also be dating Britney Spears and cheating on her will Jessica Alba....so...


----------



## observer

Randy Shear said:


> So, you know insurance law in my state better then my lawyer? You are full of surprises! I'll opt to listen to the man who passed the BAR here in Oklahoma, over some person on a forum that consistently attempts to find flaws with Uber. And who's trusting Uber? I trust the INSURANCE COMPANY that provides the commercial coverage.
> 
> It assumes they (my personal ins) are not interested in covering my car when I'm not ubering?? Huh? They've covered me for years, with no incident. Ever. When I've needed them, they took care of it. Why are we talking about while NOT driving for Uber? This is about DURING driving for Uber.


Just wanted to chime in my 2 cents. "You know insurance law in my state better than my lawyer". Guess what, just because he is a lawyer doesn't mean he is right. Remember each party in a lawsuit is represented by a lawyer. One lawyer wins, one lawyer loses....


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Uber has stated that the $1.00 charge is for conducting screenings and background checks on drivers. It is not for insurance or an umbrella policy.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

No mention of insurance from the one dollar safety fee. I had to close my eyes and just listen-she looks like she is directing a band with her over-the-top gestures. And, of course, she is obviously anti-Uber, and her bias comes through clearly. Why would you base your position on this video?


----------



## MoneyUber4

No, My opinion is that we should not being paying that $1.00 for Insurance supposedly for the rider. 
Lyft does not charge any plus they have tipping option. 
We are already working our but for low paying fare. 
On a $5.00 ride with Uber we are only getting $3.20 because Uber is making us pay for the passenger ride. 
They said is a safety ride fee Insurance. That is really vague. Where is the policy? Our name is not covered.
I know for a fact is that this fee is for protection for Uber from us (drivers) and riders. So basically we are paying for their insurance to protect their Ass.ts. 
If they are taking $1.00 from the ride, why do we have to pay for it. Why they don't charge it to the rider as they say?


----------



## Tx rides

roadrunner70 said:


> When I first started for Uber, I also thought I was "fine". After considerable research, I'm not as "fine" as I thought I was.
> 
> First, you are 100 percent correct that you are covered by a $1M BI/UIM policy if you are driving to a fare, or have that fare in your car. As stated before, property damage coverage only applies if your personal insurance has a provision for collision coverage, and the limits are either $50K if your policy has the same or higher limits, or it is the same limits as your policy if it is lower. There is a $1K deductible.
> 
> What many people are not paying attention to is the time in which you are logged on to the app and waiting for a fare. This is called Period 1. Uber considers your insurance policy to be primary in this case. They even state that the plain language of most insurance policies covers this period. In many states this is absolutely not true. In many states, no personal coverage is provided at any time if you Uber or Lyft, even one day a month. Some insurance companies have said they will deny claims outright if they find out you do any ridesharing with your vehicle, and others say they will decide on a case-by-case basis, and there are no guarantees of anything. Yes, Uber will provide coverage with limits of 50/100/25 if your personal policy denies a claim that happens during Period 1, but when your personal insurance finds out you were Ubering, you will be cancelled, not allowed to renew, your rates will drastically increase, or a combination of all 3.
> 
> Many people do not realize this. They do not realize that if an accident occurs during Period 1, Uber is going to expect you to get your insurance involved. Once you get denied, they will take over. The act of informing your insurance company is going to cause many people major issues.
> 
> Every person who drives for Uber or Lyft needs to check with their insurance company before doing so. If more people did, there would be far fewer drivers on the road (if they were smart). In most states, all that would be left are the full-timers who already have commercial insurance.


This is precisely what I heard, repeatedly, from insurance execs and attorneys during several round tables, as well as in normal b2b discussions. They consider period 1 to be commercial use, especially due to "fare trolling" in congested areas. Airport and many business property managers concur.


----------



## MoneyUber4

I am not anti UBER either but it is clear that they are willfully misleading us and we can be in big problem. They know that our Insurance Company will 
cancel our personal auto insurance policy. When they review your paper, they should step up and say, we can give you commercial coverage. 
Read your contract with UBER or LYFT. It said; "We do not perform transportation services, we are not responsible for people using our Application."
So were is the 100% back up to our drivers? 
Now we understand, your current personal auto policy will be cancelled if you have an accident with it. The Insurance company will simple say, We are not paying you. You fix your own problem. 
You are using your vehicle for hire, which is exempt from the policy. You have not coverage for any damages to you or the other vehicle. What about if some get kill. You are 100% liable for that incident.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

MoneyUber4, you edited and/or removed your posts after I replied to them. Why is that? It makes my posts look senseless.


----------



## Tx rides

Older Chauffeur said:


> MoneyUber4, you edited and/or removed your posts after I replied to them. Why is that? It makes my posts look senseless.


"Older Chauffeur: Don't mind me, I'm just talking to myself!" Lmao!!


----------



## observer

MoneyUber4 said:


> I am not anti UBER either but it is clear that they are willfully misleading us and we can be in big problem. They know that our Insurance Company will
> cancel our personal auto insurance policy. When they review your paper, they should step up and say, we can give you commercial coverage.
> Read your contract with UBER or LYFT. It said; "We do not perform transportation services, we are not responsible for people using our Application."
> So were is the 100% back up to our drivers?
> Now we understand, your current personal auto policy will be cancelled if you have an accident with it. The Insurance company will simple say, We are not paying you. You fix your own problem.
> You are using your vehicle for hire, which is exempt from the policy. You have not coverage for any damages to you or the other vehicle. What about if some get kill. You are 100% liable for that incident.


Uber left the driver in SF to fend for himself after he killed the little girl. He was "fare trolling" at the time. Uber is trying to wash their hands of the whole thing putting ALL the blame on the driver. They say that they are not responsible because he did not have a passenger at the time.


----------



## observer

There is an article in SF examiner today that Uber is facing big fines and may be shut down for refusing to provide lists of drivers and trips that they promised a year ago.


----------



## Tx rides

observer said:


> Uber left the driver in SF to fend for himself after he killed the little girl. He was "fare trolling" at the time. Uber is trying to wash their hands of the whole thing putting ALL the blame on the driver. They say that they are not responsible because he did not have a passenger at the time.


Some drivers argue that they are "just a guy/gal in his car, going to the mall", and for really part time drivers that may be true, but a large percentage are indeed "fare trolling", on crowded streets, many during rush and/or bar closing hours, which greatly increases the risks, and actuaries fully recognize this.


----------



## observer

observer said:


> Uber left the driver in SF to fend for himself after he killed the little girl. He was "fare trolling" at the time. Uber is trying to wash their hands of the whole thing putting ALL the blame on the driver. They say that they are not responsible because he did not have a passenger at the time.


Uber driver is personally responsible for his own vehicle repairs, medical costs for the little boy, medical costs for the mother, medical and burial costs for the little girl, legal costs and any money paid for damages WHEN he loses.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

observer said:


> Uber driver is personally responsible for his own vehicle repairs, medical costs for the little boy, medical costs for the mother, medical and burial costs for the little girl, legal costs and any money paid for damages WHEN he loses.


he'll be okay that's like what, 500 bucks altogether?


----------



## observer

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> he'll be okay that's like what, 500 bucks altogether?


He'll need to start a gofundme drive. He was just charged with vehicular manslaughter this past Sunday so on top of all the money expenses, he is going to spend time in jail.


----------



## Walkersm

observer said:


> vehicular manslaughter


 Twas charged as misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter, probably won't see any time just probation. As it was first offence in CA, they do not take his Florida conviction into account.

Law says could get up to one year so if SF overcrowding anything like LA he will be out in 12 days.


----------



## observer

Walkersm said:


> Twas charged as misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter, probably won't see any time just probation. As it was first offence in CA, they do not take his Florida conviction into account.
> 
> Law says could get up to one year so if SF overcrowding anything like LA he will be out in 12 days.


Good, the sooner he gets out, the sooner he is able to get a job and start paying for Ubers responsibilities.


----------



## loki

Randy Shear said:


> What Uber has is a Commercial auto liability policy that covers non owned autos. There is nothing sinister about it. As long as the policy conforms to state law (which they all do since they have a clause that states it will conform to state law) then it is fine.


In NV and other states the James River policy is not sufficient to use as commercial insurance regardless of what that paper says. Prior to the change last spring in most jurisdictions the coverage wasn't adequate. Regardless of what you may thing or what your attorney tells you, you are shouldering a great deal of the exposure in the event of an accident. There are currently no strictly personal policies that cover the use of the vehicle in a livery application in any state. There are some hybrid policies available in a few places but they are as much as commercial coverage. It will change but the carriers aren't wild about insuring a bunch of part time rookie cab drivers using personal policy rates.


----------



## Guest

Now I remember why I hated forums tit for tat I know more than you BS with specs of useful information you have to dig for.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

loki said:


> It will change but the carriers aren't wild about insuring a bunch of part time rookie cab drivers using personal policy rates.


lol, so true.


----------



## MoneyUber4

Older Chauffeur said:


> MoneyUber4, you edited and/or removed your posts after I replied to them. Why is that? It makes my posts look senseless.


Hello Older Chauffeur - It was deleted by the administrator of this Web page. He/She did not like my over posting. I got a message last night to stop posting that comment and saying my message was deleted by the administrator.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

MoneyUber4 said:


> Hello Older Chauffeur - It was deleted by the administrator of this Web page. He/She did not like my over posting. I got a message last night to stop posting that comment and saying my message was deleted by the administrator.


Hmmm, I didn't see anything wrong with what you posted, including the video, and there are members who post a lot more content. Go figure.....


----------



## MoneyUber4

I know. After that I stopped posting for a day.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Randy Shear said:


> My name is on it. And I'm betting you aren't someone with the capacity to represent law enforcement. Nothing else to say.


THREAD # 20/ OKC KIA: There you go again
Randy, makin' friends... in an officious way!
Is that Corporate calling? They could really
put your "qualities" to work for the greater
glory of Ruthless Leader.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

CityGirl said:


> I have almost 20 years in insurance litigation. I'm not worried about my situation after I did read the Uber documents provided. I know what my policy says. Others who are asking the question here are getting conflicting advice and they should double check for their own peace of mind. The reason to go to a lawyer is to avoid getting cancelled talking to an agent just because of the spectre of contracting with a rideshare company. I'm not able to speak to any other state but mine, or any other situation but mine.


THREAD # 42/ SAN DIEGO GIRL: Speakin' a
speakin' ... watcha doon wastin' y'time
wit der Uber menschers? BTW is that Morro Rock
behind your Jeep there?
Seriously though, thank you for your erudite ob-
servations and judicious commentary.


----------



## CityGirl

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> THREAD # 42/ SAN DIEGO GIRL: Speakin' a
> speakin' ... watcha doon wastin' y'time
> wit der Uber menschers?


Career change, building a new business and doing Uber for some holiday cash


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

roadrunner70 said:


> When I first started for Uber, I also thought I was "fine". After considerable research, I'm not as "fine" as I thought I was.
> 
> First, you are 100 percent correct that you are covered by a $1M BI/UIM policy if you are driving to a fare, or have that fare in your car. As stated before, property damage coverage only applies if your personal insurance has a provision for collision coverage, and the limits are either $50K if your policy has the same or higher limits, or it is the same limits as your policy if it is lower. There is a $1K deductible.
> 
> What many people are not paying attention to is the time in which you are logged on to the app and waiting for a fare. This is called Period 1. Uber considers your insurance policy to be primary in this case. They even state that the plain language of most insurance policies covers this period. In many states this is absolutely not true. In many states, no personal coverage is provided at any time if you Uber or Lyft, even one day a month. Some insurance companies have said they will deny claims outright if they find out you do any ridesharing with your vehicle, and others say they will decide on a case-by-case basis, and there are no guarantees of anything. Yes, Uber will provide coverage with limits of 50/100/25 if your personal policy denies a claim that happens during Period 1, but when your personal insurance finds out you were Ubering, you will be cancelled, not allowed to renew, your rates will drastically increase, or a combination of all 3.
> 
> Many people do not realize this. They do not realize that if an accident occurs during Period 1, Uber is going to expect you to get your insurance involved. Once you get denied, they will take over. The act of informing your insurance company is going to cause many people major issues.
> 
> Every person who drives for Uber or Lyft needs to check with their insurance company before doing so. If more people did, there would be far fewer drivers on the road (if they were smart). In most states, all that would be left are the full-timers who already have commercial insurance.


THREAD # 63/ RR 70: Thank you for your ride
share/ insurance specifics.


----------



## Randy Shear

observer said:


> Uber left the driver in SF to fend for himself after he killed the little girl. He was "fare trolling" at the time. Uber is trying to wash their hands of the whole thing putting ALL the blame on the driver. They say that they are not responsible because he did not have a passenger at the time.


That driver had the accident PRIOR to the policy change. As has been stated a billion times. Get with the time, you're behind.


----------



## DaveSC

Walkersm said:


> That is called an Acord Certificate. It is used in business to business transactions to prove that insurance exists. Police do not see them usually as even with limousine commercial polices the insurer sends Insurance ID cards that list the VIN and Company name. Police check the the VIN matches the car they pulled over and the ownership on the registration is the same as the insured company. All that Acord certificate proves is that Uber has insurance in place for drivers they are contracted with. So that is the next step. Prove to the police that you are contracted with Uber. What you going to show them a square u you printed off the internet? An app on your phone? An air freshener with the Uber logo on it?
> 
> Your best hope is a waybill but that only works if you are on a trip at the time.


I emailed Uber and talked to someone who actually is part of a team that handles accidents.She stated this is proof of insurance,but I have doubts.I am going to ask my neighbor who is a CHP officer(Cal Highway Patrol).


----------



## observer

Randy Shear said:


> That driver had the accident PRIOR to the policy change. As has been stated a billion times. Get with the time, you're behind.


Doesn't matter if it was before or after the policy change. The fact is Uber is putting all the liability on driver.


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## DaveSC

I talked to 2 OC SHERRIFS today and showed them the UBER proof of insurance.They said they would ask to see your personal insurance(whether you have a hybrid policy or taking a chance with just a normal personal policy).Even if you have a passenger and are involved in an accident,this is what they said.With this all being so new,we are going to get different answers.


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## observer

DaveSC said:


> I talked to 2 OC SHERRIFS today and showed them the UBER proof of insurance.They said they would ask to see your personal insurance(whether you have a hybrid policy or taking a chance with just a normal personal policy).Even if you have a passenger and are involved in an accident,this is what they said.With this all being so new,we are going to get different answers.


Makes sense, they want to cover themselves too. They will want all information possible just in case and then let the lawyers and courts settle it all later.


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## Walkersm

observer said:


> Makes sense, they want to cover themselves too. They will want all information possible just in case and then let the lawyers and courts settle it all later.


But the point is TNC's insurnace is supposed to be primary (now when carrying a passenger). Meaning there would be no need to show any further proof of insurance. If you can get to that level with what Uber Provides then fine. But my bet is you cannot. I did hear of one driver that all he provided after an accident was Ubers information and the other party bought it. Not sure if the cops would though.


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## UberOnSD

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Police: Proof of insurance. NOW.
> 
> You: Yes, Officer. Here you go. *hands him the certificate*
> 
> Police: What is this piece of shit?
> 
> You: It's my insurance policy, Uber is--
> 
> Police: This is not proof of insurance. Are you saying you are uninsured?
> 
> You: No, officer, Uber insures me. That certificate says that Uber insures any driver that drives for them and here's my waybill that proves I drive for the--
> 
> Police: Sir, please step out of the car. Keep your hands where I can see them.


I think with this hype scenario, I will actually contact a cop on the street and ask. The story above can't be true or the cops would be stopping everyone with the U in the window and checking insurance.


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## DaveSC

UberOnSD said:


> I think with this hype scenario, I will actually contact a cop on the street and ask. The story above can't be true or the cops would be stopping everyone with the U in the window and checking insurance.


Today I asked a CHP officer,an OC sheriff sgt,and an OC sheriff Lt.They all basically said the same thing.All they care about is showing some proof,whether it be Ubers insurance,or your personal insurance.Even if I had an accident with a Uber passenger,any proof would be good.


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## DaveSC

UberOnSD said:


> I think with this hype scenario, I will actually contact a cop on the street and ask. The story above can't be true or the cops would be stopping everyone with the U in the window and checking insurance.


Cops have more important things to do than worry about this.


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## UberOnSD

observer said:


> Makes sense, they want to cover themselves too. They will want all information possible just in case and then let the lawyers and courts settle it all later.





DaveSC said:


> Cops have more important things to do than worry about this.


Exactly!!


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## UberOnSD

DaveSC said:


> Today I asked a CHP officer,an OC sheriff sgt,and an OC sheriff Lt.They all basically said the same thing.All they care about is showing some proof,whether it be Ubers insurance,or your personal insurance.Even if I had an accident with a Uber passenger,any proof would be good.


OC Sheriffs are pretty laid back. I would be more inclined to worry about CHP and from this response, even THEY can't get all worked up over this.


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## DaveSC

UberOnSD said:


> OC Sheriffs are pretty laid back. I would be more inclined to worry about CHP and from this response, even THEY can't get all worked up over this.


Yea..the Chipper I asked was my neighbor...he kinda chuckled cuz He could care less as long as some proof is shown.


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## Jake Miller

Take a close look at Uber's terms of service and you'll also find it's pretty clear that it takes no responsibility for the actions of the drivers on its platform:

"Uber does not guarantee the suitability, safety or ability of third party providers. It is solely your responsibility to determine if a third party provider will meet your needs and expectations. Uber will not participate in disputes between you and a third party provider. By using the services, you acknowledge that you may be exposed to situations involving third party providers that are potentially unsafe, offensive, harmful to minors, or otherwise objectionable, and that use of third party providers arranged or scheduled using the services is at your own risk and judgement."


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## DrJeecheroo

Randy Shear said:


> My name is on it. And I'm betting you aren't someone with the capacity to represent law enforcement. Nothing else to say.


Just thought I would neco this post. I know its five months old. Anyways to simplify things, what the certificate really says is that the drivers are screwed in all different directions.


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## UberOnSD

Ty


Jake Miller said:


> Take a close look at Uber's terms of service and you'll also find it's pretty clear that it takes no responsibility for the actions of the drivers on its platform:
> 
> "Uber does not guarantee the suitability, safety or ability of third party providers. It is solely your responsibility to determine if a third party provider will meet your needs and expectations. Uber will not participate in disputes between you and a third party provider. By using the services, you acknowledge that you may be exposed to situations involving third party providers that are potentially unsafe, offensive, harmful to minors, or otherwise objectionable, and that use of third party providers arranged or scheduled using the services is at your own risk and judgement."


Typical lawyer disclaimer. Nothing strange there.


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## Jake Miller

Not strange, but cited in the case of the driver an India that was accused of rape. Uber wants a release from the lawsuit. Don't worry, Uber has your back. lol!


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## UberOnSD

Jake Miller said:


> Not strange, but cited in the case of the driver an India that was accused of rape. Uber wants a release from the lawsuit. Don't worry, Uber has your back. lol!


who cares what happens in a third world country? I am sure that there are taxi cab drivers who have committed violations of the law also. That's just the way it is


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## chi1cabby

Jake Miller said:


> Take a close look at Uber's terms of service and you'll also find it's pretty clear that it takes no responsibility for the actions of the drivers on its platform:





UberOnSD said:


> Ty
> Typical lawyer disclaimer. Nothing strange there.





Jake Miller said:


> Not strange, but cited in the case of the driver an India that was accused of rape. Uber wants a release from the lawsuit. Don't worry, Uber has your back. lol!





UberOnSD said:


> who cares what happens in a third world country? I am sure that there are taxi cab drivers who have committed violations of the law also. That's just the way it is


These cases are from San Francisco.
Uber cited it's TOS as a reason to deny liability.
And this thread is about Uber's Insurance & Liability implications for Uber Drivers. If you'd like to discuss Taxi Insurance, please start a thread on that topic & expound away.

"Hererra vs Uber Amended Response" *http://scribd.com/doc/212005329
*
"Liu vs Uber Rasier Response" *http://scribd.com/doc/221693276*

*Edit:* UberOnSD, I challenge you for the third time, to point me to a post of yours that is substantive & added to the issues being discussed. Railing against the United Nations, Insurance Companies, Lawyers, Regulators, Cab Drivers & Cab Companies does not qualify...
I look forward to reading the posts you point out.
Thanx!


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## DrJeecheroo

When it comes to Uber's insurance policy, it's the same shit different wording.


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## UberOnSD

chi1cabby said:


> These cases are from San Francisco.
> Uber cited it's TOS as a reason to deny liability.
> And this thread is about Uber's Insurance & Liability implications for Uber Drivers. If you'd like to discuss Taxi Insurance, please start a thread on that topic & expound away.
> 
> "Hererra vs Uber Amended Response" *http://scribd.com/doc/212005329
> *
> "Liu vs Uber Rasier Response" *http://scribd.com/doc/221693276*
> 
> *Edit:* UberOnSD, I challenge you for the third time, to point me to a post of yours that is substantive & added to the issues being discussed. Railing against the United Nations, Insurance Companies, Lawyers, Regulators, Cab Drivers & Cab Companies does not qualify...
> I look forward to reading the posts you point out.
> Thanx!


Go find them yourself. I owe you nothing.


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## chi1cabby

UberOnSD said:


> Go find them yourself. I owe you nothing.


Just as I thought...you've got nothing substantive to say.


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## Tre

Randy Shear said:


>


How did you get a copy?


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## DriverX2015

Ok so I got a ticket for not being able to show proof of commercial insurance when I was in the middle of transporting a pax. Is commercial insurance what Uber covers us with while we have a pax? If so is it that certificate document through waybill that has none of my personal info on it?


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## Bart McCoy

Tre said:


> How did you get a copy?


its just a print out of the same thing in your app
find yours here:
http://newsroom.uber.com/2015/01/certificates-of-insurance-u-s-ridesharing/



DriverX2015 said:


> Ok so I got a ticket for not being able to show proof of commercial insurance when I was in the middle of transporting a pax. Is commercial insurance what Uber covers us with while we have a pax? If so is it that certificate document through waybill that has none of my personal info on it?


I'm guessing you got pulled over by real police instead of TNC hack agents.Real police dont know what they are doing. If you are UberX, you dont need full commercial insurance, and Uber's insurance covers you. If you have a pax in the car, then you are certainly on Uber's commercial insurance up to $1mil. Any hack inspector would know this. A regular beat cop trying to do it all will not.

In most if not all markets, Uber's insurance covers you while a pax is in the car for UberX.You of course can go out and get your own insurance. Well it mainly covers the pax, but it covers you to be able to drive legally. Otherwise the 95% of us that dont have commercial insurance would be locked up

And yes, the one without your name on it is it. Its all you need to legally do UberX. Now if you are UberBlack or UberSUV, then yeah, you need to be able to show some full commercial insurance with your name on it.

I mean, in addition to printing out the insurance, you probably should print out the whole agreement Uber made with your jurisdiction so that cop knows how it all works.In that agreement it will show that Uber's insurance allows you to do UberX legally


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## Diligaf

Ok all the fighting is making my head spin . Allstate has your answers and they do cover you in the grey areas in three states so far. met life is doing the same its $30.00 with Allstate per year . Yes you need the insurance provided by uber if you get stopped show your insurance if you are in an accident give both unless you are committing insurance fraud . 

06/03/2015 - NORTHBROOK, Ill.
With Allstate's Ride for Hire endorsement, qualifying Transportation Network Company drivers can be better protected during the time they are logged into the TNC app looking for a new fare and they can benefit from lower coverage deductibles when they are on the road with TNC passengers. Allstate plans to offer coverage as an optional endorsement in four states by the end of this year.

The Allstate Ride for Hire endorsement benefits customers who use their personal vehicles to drive for qualifying TNCs. Allstate expects that, on average, an Allstate customer will pay roughly $15-$20 each year for the added protection.
"The ride-hailing economy continues to grow and our products evolve with our customers' potential needs," says Allstate Product Vice President Dave Border. "We want to help ensure our customers can more confidently participate as TNC drivers."
And it also provides a lower deductible for those of us with 500 or less . Hope this helps .


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