# Uber's Threat of Declining Too Many Rides and The Minor Problem (OC/LA California)



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

GoldenGoji said:


> Let me preface this with a very important part of the Uber Platform Access Agreement from January 6, 2020:
> 
> Source: https://uber-regulatory-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/reddog/country/United States/p2p/Uber Platform Access Agreement January 6, 2020.pdf
> 
> ...


Uber's whole premise in their driver contract is wrong. They're still claiming we are independent contractors and have written their contract around it, with such claims now quashed by AB5. So they could state in the contract that the moon is made of blue cheese; it would just be one more clause that is invalid.

The question now is what the lawmakers who wrote AB5 and the courts whose job it is to enforce it are going to do about Uberlyft ignoring it.

If we were genuine independent contractors then Uber selecting drivers for work based on acceptance rate would arguably be valid. However, that whole discussion is moot given that the law says we are not.


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

Uber needs to require the customer to throw in a $3 surcharge fee on all min fare trips. In my market that would make all trips at least $10. With $6 going to the driver and $4 to Uber.

Currently customers pay $7 for min fare Trips with $3 going to the Driver. Charging $10 would make the short rides very much worth it because you can easily hammer out 3 or 4 of those every hour and make $18-$24 an hour while only putting 15 or so miles on your vehicle.


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## Nate5Star (Dec 18, 2019)

Going to have to remember that "Your choice...." propaganda.

This morning alone I canceled 4 rides. 

The first was from Rahway to Philadelphia. I accepted the ping because it seemed like a normal ride. I get there and the guy who ordered the ride informs it was to take his "family" to Philly. That's @ 1hr 20 min ride. There was no warning of a 45+ ride, and at 1am there was no way I am getting a return pax. I told him I am only registered with Uber for local rides and canceled. (amazing after all these years people have no clue how Uber works. hehehe) I do wonder if he was the 45+ ride I ignore every 2 to 3 mornings. 

The second was from Rahway to Elizabeth. The destination miraculously changed to Jersey City when I pulled up. Pax insisted he put in Jersey City when he ordered ride. I let him know I get a notification when anything with the ride changes. He annoyed me so much I just canceled. 

Then came a pick up at one of the malls . . . at 3am in the morning. The first attempt had me stopping on the highway to pick up a non-existant rider. I waited out the clock and got the no show fee. A few minutes later, same request. I usually don't take a duplicate request after getting a no show. I don't want to listen to them complain. A guy and a girl get in. They are going to Brooklyn. Sorry, not in my car. She is carrying on that this is Uber. (does that mean anything to anyone.) I let her know in no uncertain terms it was still my car and I decide where it is going. I get to cancel them for "rider bahavior."

Final cancellation came as I was in destination mode, from Cranberry to Rahway Train Station. I get a ping to pick up a rider 20 minutes south from my location "going in my direction" when I had already driven 15 minutes north toward my location. Canceled because of route problems.

I rarely use destination mode since it seems to like two steps back for one step forward.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Nate5Star said:


> I usually don't take a duplicate request after getting a no show. I don't want to listen to them complain.


If it's slow I'll go for the double no show. I've got it a few times. Quite fun when you do. The last time was a drunk young woman who refused to come outside. After I accepted the re-ping she texted, "I'm coming, do NOT cancel!". After I no showed her again at 5:00 she came running out of the house. I really wanted to go for the turkey triple as I haven't achieved that yet but could see that was not going to happen so I slow rolled away. &#129335;‍♂


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

I don't understand the problem with minors. Is it against the law there? Have you had problems?

In my market high school pickups are some of the nicest, most polite, well behaved riders I get. They're never drunk.

In my market kids taking Lyft or Uber home come from well-to-do families, they are going to area regional schools or private schools, and they're going to nice neighborhoods. They are squared away and well-adjusted

I'm not afraid of any personal liability. I have multiple dash cams.

I do refuse unaccompanied children. I have no problem with a person I can treat as an adult (I can drop them off where they still will be unaccompanied). If I accept a ride with a child, and there's nobody to receive them on the other end then they're my problem.

In the ghetto, you have the other end of the spectrum, people taking Lyft or Uber to pick up their children because they are too poor to own a car or it was repossessed etc. The only problem with these folks is that they often are taking rideshare to pick up an infant or very small child and they have no car seat. For those I cancel every time.


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

GoldenGoji said:


> it remains to be seen if Uber actually reads those comments and suggestions.


They don't.

The whole purpose of the feedback/surveys is simply to increase morale by making us think they're concerned; but in fact they really couldn't care less and don't want to actually do anything to boost morale.

when I used to drive, and Uber would send me the surveys, I would just hit the delete button. No point wasting 10 minutes of my life to do a survey no one is going to read.


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## XLnoGas (Dec 20, 2019)

If they require us to have a certain AR for requests again, I’ll finally quit.

When PAX pay SURGE they want their moneys worth. A lot of us with nicer cars wait for surge, declining rides along the way.

Guess all those satisfied customers which would have been otherwise angry at paying SURGE will just lose my business.


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

From reading the OP it just seems to indicate you could be kicked off the platform based on your rating, provided by your riders.

I don't see anything there about timeouts due to passing on shit non profitable rides.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Bubsie said:


> From reading the OP it just seems to indicate you could be kicked off the platform based on your rating, provided by your riders.
> 
> I don't see anything there about timeouts due to passing on shit non profitable rides.


Look at the second graphic that the OP posted. It is a screenshot of the Uber's confirmation in the app that there are two reasons why drivers may receive fewer requests.

_"Declining based on destination or refusing too many requests may result in fewer requests"_

I see the first reason for Uber sending any given driver fewer requests - declining based on destination - as a valid reason. I personally don't decline based on destination.

The second reason Uber gives - "refusing too many requests" - is what many of us are seeing in practice. I don't do Pool trips, for example, so I decline around 60% of total trip requests. Uber considers this too many and I no longer get much work from them. I'm getting 1 trip request per hour now on average. Naturally, this has discouraged me from going online with Uber now - there's little point. I have started to concentrate now more on my other business, which I enjoy a lot more anyway so no real loss.


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## XLnoGas (Dec 20, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Look at the second graphic that the OP posted. It is a screenshot of the Uber's confirmation in the app that there are two reasons why drivers may receive fewer requests.
> 
> _"Declining based on destination or refusing too many requests may result in fewer requests"_
> 
> ...


What's your Cancel Rate?


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

XLnoGas said:


> What's your Cancel Rate?


6%


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## XLnoGas (Dec 20, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> 6%


If your rate is higher than 5% you start seeing less pings.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

XLnoGas said:


> If your rate is higher than 5% you start seeing less pings.


Makes sense for them to give fewer rides to drivers who are more likely to cancel. I'd probably do the same.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

XLnoGas said:


> If your rate is higher than 5% you start seeing less pings.


Every city is different. Some places allow higher CR and some are very strict about it.


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## Gigworker (Oct 23, 2019)

If a driver is willing to accept the little $2-$3 trips, they should get more requests than the cherry pickers.


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## XLnoGas (Dec 20, 2019)

Gigworker said:


> If a driver is willing to accept the little $2-$3 trips, they should get more requests than the cherry pickers.


Short trip rates need to increase


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## d2wuberLA (Dec 6, 2019)

I suggest all UBER drivers nationwide strike again and make UBER feel the crunch this time. Let’s show them how it feels to be slaves with no food on the table.
Let’s strike an entire week and see how many millions of dollars we can make UBER loose. We drivers are UBER! Uber is nothing without us. We should demand better pay in fares and fees. We are in a position to make UBER bend to our demands. Uber is nothing without us drivers.
LETS STRIKE!!


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## NoPool4Me (Apr 16, 2018)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> I don't understand the problem with minors. Is it against the law there? Have you had problems?
> 
> In my market high school pickups are some of the nicest, most polite, well behaved riders I get. They're never drunk.
> 
> ...


In *California*, *unaccompanied minors* are prohibited from traveling with most carriers, including TNCs. ... The *driver* may also let a rider know that the *driver* will have to cancel the trip if the rider is indeed under 18.

https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/uploadedFil...rding_Unaccompanied_Minors_(June_6__2016).pdf
https://www.ridester.com/lyft-uber-minor-policy/
Also, in the case of an accident with unaccompanied minors in the car, the Uber insurance would probably be void since it is against Uber rules to drive unaccompanied minors. I won't take the responsibility of transporting minors even though they would be easy.

On another topic, today was my last day driving until I see how the coronavirus issue turns out in the coming months. Skipping a few months is safer than driving if a pandemic pops up.


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## itsnot1971 (Feb 22, 2020)

What's up with you CHILDREN begging for $5 minimum fares a NYC minimum fare in 1995 was $6.50 with NO maintenance costs....

Anything less than $10 gross is less than minimum wage & if you accept them more than once YOU are part of the problem & just as guilty as Uber Lyft for disrespecting & spitting on the humans that DIED standing up for labor laws & human rights.

Cancel or ignore the rides let the 96% who fail because they can't do basic math service them

Wouldn't of given you a ride in high school 25+ years ago for $5 lmao unless you were standing right next to me, were my friend, & going to the same place geez,







Simply pathetic YOURE the reason these evil organized criminals lower rates every year duh


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

Hey all - I gave my first trip Fall 2013 on Uber X in Los Angeles. I want to remind drivers and readers that this was not a problem Uber had to deal with the first couple years. Minimum fares were $10 in 2013, then dipped lower and lower. This is a problem Uber created. At the time, the official emails from Uber said it would encourage more trips while keeping earnings the same. Drivers are now carrying the weight of unfair market prices, driven artificially low by Rideshare companies that lose hundreds of millions in capital per fiscal quarter. 

My friends used to make fun of me the first year Uber launched: "Jareds out doing his taxi thing again." But even then I knew the honeymoon wasn't going to last forever. Making $40/hr part time for little to no buy in? Crazy. What I didn't anticipate was how deep the hole would go. Government has had little teeth because consumers love a low price, and worker protections and civil liberties have fallen to the wayside in recent times.

I hope that California enforces the new regulations. Disruption is not change for the better. Innovation shouldn't come at the expense of quality of life.


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## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

I don’t know where trips pay $2! I simply wouldn’t drive.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

d2wuberLA said:


> I suggest all UBER drivers nationwide strike again and make UBER feel the crunch this time. Let's show them how it feels to be slaves with no food on the table.
> Let's strike an entire week and see how many millions of dollars we can make UBER loose. We drivers are UBER! Uber is nothing without us. We should demand better pay in fares and fees. We are in a position to make UBER bend to our demands. Uber is nothing without us drivers.
> LETS STRIKE!!


Let's don't.

Second thought, all you guys strike; but, please share details. I'll be driving hard. Strike bucks are fun bucks &#128184;!

Cleaned up last strike. &#128513;&#128513;

MAGA 2020
&#127482;&#127474;


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## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

In my market now they’re only calculating/updating the total requests sent - declined rides. Which means if I skip 5 out of 100 rides I would go from 95% to 90% once a new week starts. Once you hit 85% you can’t see pax direction upfront.

My rating also seems to be handpicked for the last few months. After comparing weekly screenshots it will normally erase 1 5 star and add 1 4 and below rating.


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## Wild Colonial Boy (Dec 26, 2019)

In my market there is no law prohibiting unaccompanied minors from being a passenger. It’s against the Uber rider’s terms, but it isn’t illegal. I have a ‘Working With Children’ accreditation and under our car registration requirements all cars have compulsory passenger and third party personal injury insurance. This is in addition to your comprehensive property insurance. So I don’t have a problem with carrying high school kids, and like someone said, they’re amongst the nicest passengers I’ve carried. There are laws against lack of car seats, and a hefty fine. I live in a small town of about forty thousand people, and the atmosphere is totally different from cities. Of course a dual lens dashcam is a must, you’d be stupid to drive without one.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Wild Colonial Boy said:


> Of course a dual lens dashcam is a must, you'd be stupid to drive without one.


Yeah, nope. Those TNC's approved to have minors also prohibit cameras of any type in the car. Hard stop, there.


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## Wild Colonial Boy (Dec 26, 2019)

SHalester said:


> Yeah, nope. Those TNC's approved to have minors also prohibit cameras of any type in the car. Hard stop, there.


Not where we live, in the land Downunder


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Wild Colonial Boy said:


> In my market there is no law prohibiting unaccompanied minors from being a passenger. It's against the Uber rider's terms, but it isn't illegal. I have a 'Working With Children' accreditation and under our car registration requirements all cars have compulsory passenger and third party personal injury insurance. This is in addition to your comprehensive property insurance. So I don't have a problem with carrying high school kids, and like someone said, they're amongst the nicest passengers I've carried. There are laws against lack of car seats, and a hefty fine. I live in a small town of about forty thousand people, and the atmosphere is totally different from cities. Of course a dual lens dashcam is a must, you'd be stupid to drive without one.


You're in la la land&#127770;


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## Wild Colonial Boy (Dec 26, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> You're in la la land&#127770;


Maybe, but do you know how many kids have lost their lives in school shootings over here? None. So if anyone's living in la la land, old mate, it's you.


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

Wild Colonial Boy said:


> Maybe, but do you know how many kids have lost their lives in school shootings over here? None. So if anyone's living in la la land, old mate, it's you.


Pretty callous and reductive to use a metric like school shooting deaths as rebuttal. Mental illness is everywhere.


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## Wild Colonial Boy (Dec 26, 2019)

JaredJ said:


> Pretty callous and reductive to use a metric like school shooting deaths as rebuttal. Mental illness is everywhere.


Mate, if you don't have a go at me, you don't get 'callously rebutted'. Let's face it, if some dweep can't cope with a reasonable post, and feels the need to be sarcastic, don't expect me to hold back. In our country we pay back hard. Tough if you don't like it.


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## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

GoldenGoji said:


> Let me preface this with a very important part of the Uber Platform Access Agreement from January 6, 2020:
> 
> Source: https://uber-regulatory-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/reddog/country/United States/p2p/Uber Platform Access Agreement January 6, 2020.pdf
> 
> ...


I want to know if theres a way around this!

Or if its another case of

'just deal with it"

any advice?

(edit: it just seems to me like rot.... it always seems to be something or another, they say one THING and then do something completely different... I know I know, this isn't anything new, but seriously, are they EVER going to suffer consequences? Or is it just the SAME crap, different day!"


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Greenfox said:


> are they EVER going to suffer consequences?


Only one thing will get their attention. Pax requests going unanswered. Or a great number of ants not going online when they normally do. 
most ants are not unhappy. This forum does not represent the driving population. 
just take California alone. Maybe > 200k drivers. What would it take to make them so Unhappy to stay offline? A great percent of them are happy with AR gone and full info pings. Up hill climb for sure.


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## amp man (Sep 26, 2014)

GoldenGoji said:


> Let me preface this with a very important part of the Uber Platform Access Agreement from January 6, 2020:
> 
> Source: https://uber-regulatory-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/reddog/country/United States/p2p/Uber Platform Access Agreement January 6, 2020.pdf
> 
> ...


Had several back to back $4.00-$5.00 earnings that were 20 miles away (always seem to get the lower price) last night which I ignored. Got the threat notice on app. Made $28.00 in 4hrs. Thought it was a result of Coronamania. I guess they followed thru with the threats.


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

I got the threat yesterday because I didn't want to keep being sent for $3-$4 short rides in pothole-ridden East Oakland that are 10-15 minutes away and often minors wanting to get to school. It's a part of town many drivers apparently avoid, considering it often shows as surge pricing. I'll go there after an airport drop-off when it's in surge pricing, but even then those rides tend to send me farther away from the core market for $3-$4 rides even farther distant from each other...and I never get tips east of Fruitvale BART station. So I shut off the app and went home for a nap when they sent me the second warning (used 15th St to see the hookers for kicks), hopefully affecting Uber's bottom line when many drivers are staying home due to the virus panic. Went back out in the afternoon and got a string of good rides and a few tips to beat my goal for the day. I don't take to threats, I don't take orders, but I follow the rules. The warning indicates I'm discriminating based on location, but I'm calculating distance from where I am and the estimated fare to refuse unprofitable rides. I can use my history of rides in East Oakland to prove I don't discriminate based on location. In West Oakland, a home-to-BART dropoff for the same price takes half the time, and that's my basis for declining rides.

Drivers need to decline more $3.75 rides. They don't add up for us.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

EastBayRides said:


> I got the threat yesterday because I didn't want to keep being sent for $3-$4 short rides in pothole-ridden East Oakland that are 10-15 minutes away and often minors wanting to get to school. It's a part of town many drivers apparently avoid, considering it often shows as surge pricing. I'll go there after an airport drop-off when it's in surge pricing, but even then those rides tend to send me farther away from the core market for $3-$4 rides even farther distant from each other...and I never get tips east of Fruitvale BART station. So I shut off the app and went home for a nap when they sent me the second warning (used 15th St to see the hookers for kicks), hopefully affecting Uber's bottom line when many drivers are staying home due to the virus panic. Went back out in the afternoon and got a string of good rides and a few tips to beat my goal for the day. I don't take to threats, I don't take orders, but I follow the rules. The warning indicates I'm discriminating based on location, but I'm calculating distance from where I am and the estimated fare to refuse unprofitable rides. I can use my history of rides in East Oakland to prove I don't discriminate based on location. In West Oakland, a home-to-BART dropoff for the same price takes half the time, and that's my basis for declining rides.
> 
> Drivers need to decline more $3.75 rides. They don't add up for us.


Do lyft requests show length of trip, fare for the trip and direction of the trip too in California?


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Do lyft requests show length of trip, fare for the trip and direction of the trip too in California?


I don't drive for Lyft.

I have only declined one ride in the past two days (a ride that popped up when I was preparing to go offline). But the threat popped up about 10x. I sent them a message asking that they stop sending this message, as it continually pops up while I have a pax in the car requiring me to take my hands off the wheel to remove a tacky message the pax can see. Bad form and distracting to the driver.


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## GoldenGoji (Apr 30, 2018)

Here's an update, I'm not sure if you've seen it yet but the threat color turned from Orange to Red. What happened was I was in LA after dropping off someone and I had to get out of the car to try and help the guy get up since he "lost feelings in the leg and arms". His friends were waiting for him so they took him away. I wasn't able to get a bunch of pings and then I received 4 red colored threats. When you received your threats, what color was it? Orange or Red? I wonder what the change in color means. Is it just for "artistic" purposes or is this some kind of escalated threat hmm.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Here's the deal, and listen up. While they have that as policy, to fulfill some requirement so they can not be required to make you an employee, think about it --- if they really want to can you, they can find a reason, discrimination, something.

See, Uber likes drivers to work hard, and do not cherry pick.

If you owned a taxi company, you'd like drivers that did that, too.

Despite the short hauls, depending on your region, if everyone accepts all rides the average ride will be $8. 
If you work it like a taxi ( 10 - 12 hour shifts ) you should do about 20 trips. 

If you can do better, good for you,. but that has been my experience.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Gigworker said:


> If a driver is willing to accept the little $2-$3 trips, they should get more requests than the cherry pickers.


If a driver is willing to work at a loss he should get a nice story about the bunnies.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

GoldenGoji said:


> Here's an update, I'm not sure if you've seen it yet but the threat color turned from Orange to Red. What happened was I was in LA after dropping off someone and I had to get out of the car to try and help the guy get up since he "lost feelings in the leg and arms". His friends were waiting for him so they took him away. I wasn't able to get a bunch of pings and then I received 4 red colored threats. When you received your threats, what color was it? Orange or Red? I wonder what the change in color means. Is it just for "artistic" purposes or is this some kind of escalated threat hmm.
> 
> View attachment 426955










Mine are blue


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## Legalizeit0 (Jul 26, 2017)

d2wuberLA said:


> I suggest all UBER drivers nationwide strike again and make UBER feel the crunch this time. Let's show them how it feels to be slaves with no food on the table.
> Let's strike an entire week and see how many millions of dollars we can make UBER loose. We drivers are UBER! Uber is nothing without us. We should demand better pay in fares and fees. We are in a position to make UBER bend to our demands. Uber is nothing without us drivers.
> LETS STRIKE!!


It's OK because you are new.

A strike day has been tried several times, even made national news once. Results - drivers who worked that day made more money and U/L didn't even notice!


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