# Fake Service Dogs



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Frustrated-by-Fake-Service-Dogs-208233211.html

Everyone's probably seen the emails from Uber and Lyft about us having to accommodate service animals. Which is fair enough.

But what about fake service dogs? Last night a pax presented with such an animal. It was a little miniature poodle; one of those fashion accessory - type dogs that young women tend to carry around with them. When I asked her what tasks it was trained to perform, she angrily replied that it was an emotional support dog.

Well... at least in California, emotional support dog is not a recognized type of service animal. I've taken genuine support dogs before; the animal presented last night definitely was not. It was just a case of an owner abusing the rules set up for people who genuinely need assistance from animals, not so that a princess can take little Trixibelle across town in an Uber.

Falsely claiming service dog status is a misdemeanor and I'm annoyed that people do this. Not burn-her-at-the-stake annoyed, but annoyed nonetheless. Anyway folks, know your rights.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

Also know there is no service dog certificate issued in the state of Ca or most states for that matter. Typical you can find what qualifies as a service dog in your state by going to the DMV site.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Yep...truly a no win in the case of phonies, because you cannot demand proof. But if you are convinced it's a faker, you can deny service. They must provide evidence to be able to sue. I think we are going to start seeing more and more business owners taking that option. People who have dealt with trained service dogs recognize a faker almost instantly, and they (along with many trainers and owners) are tired of the fakers and the stigma applied because of them :-(


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Yep...truly a no win in the case of phonies, because you cannot demand proof. But if you are convinced it's a faker, you can deny service. They must provide evidence to be able to sue. I think we are going to start seeing more and more business owners taking that option. People who have dealt with trained service dogs recognize a faker almost instantly, and they (along with many trainers and owners) are tired of the fakers and the stigma applied because of them :-(


With so much publicity, UberLyft's policy is certainly going to be "deactivate first, ask questions later" when a pax complains about denial of service over dogs. I now know how to filter out fakers, and will record any conversations I have with them curbside.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

elelegido said:


> With so much publicity, UberLyft's policy is certainly going to be "deactivate first, ask questions later" when a pax complains about denial of service over dogs. I now know how to filter out fakers, and will record any conversations I have with them curbside.


True&#8230; I expect there will be a phase of retaliatory reporting if drivers don't accept their precious pets.A decent company would have your back. But if wishes were horses, we would all take a ride, right? Lol!!!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

I think that the rule requiring businesses to accept service animals without proof was set up with good intentions, but it's definitely being abused. Disabled car drivers must display the relevant ID on their cars or have disabled plates if they want to park in spaces for the disabled, and I think the fake service animal fraudsters have made requiring the equivalent ID for service animals the only way to stop them doing it.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

You can buy fake service animal credentials off the internet.


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## Kalee (Feb 18, 2015)

I would take a dog for a ride over most of the pax. Dogs tend to be more well behaved and house broken.
Also, you're more likely to get tipped by a dog than these wretched cheap pax.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Kalee said:


> I would take a dog for a ride over most of the pax. Dogs tend to be more well behaved and house broken.
> Also, you're more likely to get tipped by a dog than these wretched cheap pax.


Yeah, but dogs could piss on the back seat. Oh, wait...


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## Kalee (Feb 18, 2015)

elelegido said:


> Yeah, but dogs could piss on the back seat. Oh, wait...


Yep...I've had it happen. The chick got out and her ass was soaked. I could see a moist ass print on my leather seat. She pissed herself.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Kalee said:


> Yep...I've had it happen. The chick got out and her ass was soaked. I could see a moist ass print on my leather seat. She pissed herself.


Did you get a payout? I think Lyft and therefore the urinator paid $150 when it happened to me.


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## Kalee (Feb 18, 2015)

No...didn't report it. It wasn't enough to soak into the seats.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Kalee said:


> No...didn't report it. It wasn't enough to soak into the seats.


Even a DROP of piss is enough to report, man. If I have to wipe bodily fluids out of or off of my seats someone is paying.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

piss stains and carries a long bad smell
what if the dog craps?


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## Dan Uphoff (Mar 8, 2015)

The fact of the problem is if you refuse, and thent he person prooves they are a service dog, hello lawsuit. Just take the damn dog if its small enough to be held. In my state emotional and therapy dogs are considered service animals.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Dan Uphoff said:


> The fact of the problem is if you refuse, and thent he person prooves they are a service dog, hello lawsuit. Just take the damn dog if its small enough to be held. In my state emotional and therapy dogs are considered service animals.


I know someone who has a service dog who alerts if she is about to have a seizure. But she's quite normal other than the epilepsy and the dog is a pretty spastic small mutt. Not the typical calm seeing eye dog type. (The dog alerts by staring at her and barking incessantly btw).

So it can be REALLY hard to tell. I would just warn anyone you think is lying that if there is ANY damage caused by the animal they will be charged for it. True for service animals also although they are much less likely to be a problem. Then put your dog cover on the back seat and a blanket or whatever and inspect thoroughly when they get out. I would also insist they sit in the back with the pet and if small it stays on their lap or in a carrier. Big dogs I'd as soon have on the seat with the cover as less fur will get on the back of my front seats that way compared to them sitting on the floor.

I think a drunk is more likely to vomit in your car than a dog to have an accident. I've transported many dogs (mine and friends) long before uber. We used to do a lot of dog rescue so NOT well behaved service dogs that's for sure! I've come a lot closer to drunks vomiting in the car than dogs causing a problem other than muddy feet (and I've had pax put those on the seats too btw ).


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## Cooluberdriver (Nov 29, 2014)

elelegido said:


> http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Frustrated-by-Fake-Service-Dogs-208233211.html
> 
> Everyone's probably seen the emails from Uber and Lyft about us having to accommodate service animals. Which is fair enough.
> 
> ...


Hope you canceled the trip and wrote to uber about that.


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Sorry I'm allergic to pet hair I'll wait with you until another car arrives, crisis avoided


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Instyle said:


> Sorry I'm allergic to pet hair I'll wait with you until another car arrives, crisis avoided


I have a real problem with the ADA rules over drivers when it comes to allergies. A while ago, I read an explanation that drivers could get allergy shots. Therefore they should never be given an excuse for saying no. I draw the line there. No one should be forced to take medications in order to accommodate a customer. I'm all for making reasonable sacrifices. Allergy Meds, IMO, are not reasonable.

If I had to be in a room with a cat, one of us is going to have to leave. I am not taking allergy medications in order to be with something I can opt to avoid quite simply.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> I have a real problem with the ADA rules over drivers when it comes to allergies. A while ago, I read an explanation that drivers could get allergy shots. Therefore they should never be given an excuse for saying no. I draw the line there. No one should be forced to take medications in order to accommodate a customer. I'm all for making reasonable sacrifices. Allergy Meds, IMO, are not reasonable.
> 
> If I had to be in a room with a cat, one of us is going to have to leave. I am not taking allergy medications in order to be with something I can opt to avoid quite simply.


Some would argue that you need to find new employment then. It's interesting to me. Whose rights rule the day? I personally say instead of forcing the issue on helpless drivers just have driver who are willing to transport animals mark that as an option. Of course there should be an added charge. Not much. Maybe 25%-50%? If it truly is a service animal then allow the pax to write off the extra expense on their taxes.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

D Town said:


> Some would argue that you need to find new employment then. It's interesting to me. Whose rights rule the day? I personally say instead of forcing the issue on helpless drivers just have driver who are willing to transport animals mark that as an option. Of course there should be an added charge. Not much. Maybe 25%-50%? If it truly is a service animal then allow the pax to write off the extra expense on their taxes.


Well that's the thing&#8230; That is reasonable effort to provide accommodations. Those zeros some advocates really ruin it for everyone. The same applies to the ADA structural rules. I've known small business owners who cashed it in because they couldn't afford renovations in their little hole in the wall establishments. I had a friend in Chicago who had to close down because someone reported that his entry was too narrow for a wheelchair. He had never had anyone come in in a wheelchair, and actually delivered lunch to a bed ridden resident in the neighborhood at least once per week. None of that mattered. We need a little common sense applied sometimes. 
(My rights start where yours end )


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## Dan Uphoff (Mar 8, 2015)

Sorry you want to be in the service industry, be prepared to deal with service animals. Dont like it? Find something else to do. Part of the job, end of story.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

D Town said:


> Some would argue that you need to find new employment then.


That was the Supreme Court's take on it. Allergies were argued. Lost.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Dan Uphoff said:


> Sorry you want to be in the service industry, be prepared to deal with service animals. Dont like it? Find something else to do. Part of the job, end of story.


Thank you for telling us something that we already know. Any more words of wisdom you care to add?


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> That was the Supreme Court's take on it. Allergies were argued. Lost.


Just reading that gives me the sniffles.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> piss stains and carries a long bad smell
> what if the dog craps?


$100 fine.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

If it looks like a fashion accessory on a 20 something year old, then its not a service dog. The entitled *****es that think every one must clean their feet with their tongue should walk. The dog will get its weekly exercise from seating in your bag 8 hours a day.

If you ex-military, then your dog can sit in the front seat, i even have a harness that straps on to the seat belt.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Dan Uphoff said:


> Sorry you want to be in the service industry, be prepared to deal with service animals. Dont like it? Find something else to do. Part of the job, end of story.


This thread isn't about service animals. In fact this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with service animals, including dogs. This thread is about fakers who play the system with fake service dogs. Hence the title of the thread, which is "fake service dogs" 

Unable to understand what a thread is about? Find another thread to read. End of story


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

elelegido said:


> http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Frustrated-by-Fake-Service-Dogs-208233211.html
> 
> Everyone's probably seen the emails from Uber and Lyft about us having to accommodate service animals. Which is fair enough.
> 
> ...


I'd say most service dogs are fake. I know my brother's is, 'cause I know how he got it, just took his dog to a very short course, and they send him a cert and the outfit for the dog. Interesting to note that there is NO gov cert process. By law, for a service dog to be a service dog it has to be able to fulfill certain requirements, but you, as a vendor, are not allowed to challenge, or the only way you can do so legally is to pursue the matter in court, and have the owner demonstrate in court that the dog fulfills the service requirements ( responds to commands, etc ) and all that will do is get you a lot of bad publicity. AFAIK, legit service dogs, there is a waiting list to get them, they are expensive, and they go through a couple of years of training.

I don't get that many dogs, but I carry a small blanket in my car to place on the seat, so his claws won't dig into the leather, or I ask the passenger to make sure the dog stays on the floor area. Also, make sure to ask the passenger if the dog was recently walked, ( doens't need to go to the bathroom, etc ). I've never had a problem so far.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

Had an actual service dog yesterday, he came with a blind guy in tow.

The dog was trained to lay down on the floor of the vehicle the entire trip. And when I stopped in front of the house, the dog got up to let the blind guy know we have arrived.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

KGB7 said:


> Had an actual service dog yesterday, he came with a blind guy in tow.
> 
> The dog was trained to lay down on the floor of the vehicle the entire trip. And when I stopped in from of the house, the dog got up to let the blind guy know we have arrived.


Yeah, I've taken genuine service dogs too. They're no problem at all.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> Hope you canceled the trip and wrote to uber about that.


No point in reporting anything to Uber except when you can get a puke/piss fee.

I did not know then that the ADA specifically excludes comfort and emotional support dogs from the classification of service animal. So I took the pax and the read up about it.

The ride was Lyft; I wrote in and they replied that they removed the rating that the girl left for me and that they had written to her to clarify policy to her.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

Kalee said:


> I would take a dog for a ride over most of the pax. Dogs tend to be more well behaved and house broken.
> Also, you're more likely to get tipped by a dog than these wretched cheap pax.


I have had some dirty PAX, but none left a half a pound of white hair on gray seats so far

My issue is the clean up, not the dog. I routinely take lap dogs along with little old ladies. Never had an issue. A 40 lb shedding dog laying across most of the back seat is another story.

I am looking for a full seat throw, on Amazon and eBay today. That would solve the problem.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Instyle said:


> Sorry I'm allergic to pet hair I'll wait with you until another car arrives, crisis avoided


POST # 18/Instyle: Well-played, Sir!
BTW: Is that a Rolls
in the Avatar Photo? OUTSTANDING!

Bison Admires.
Bidon Inspires!


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

RockinEZ said:


> I have had some dirty PAX, but none left a half a pound of white hair on gray seats so far
> 
> My issue is the clean up, not the dog. I routinely take lap dogs along with little old ladies. Never had an issue. A 40 lb shedding dog laying across most of the back seat is another story.
> 
> I am looking for a full seat throw on Amazon and eBay today. That would solve the problem.


POST # 33/RockinEZ: Better "full seat
throw on" THAN
"full seat thrown up on"! JEEPERS!

Bison chortling.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

What a difference a comma makes


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

RockinEZ said:


> What a difference a comma makes


POST # 36/RockinEZ: I'm on a Roll!
Check the Ungulate's Take
on an Anti Yellow Cab piece that UPNF's
Hackenstein found to be "Purcha$ed"
with #[F]UberFund$:

https://uberpeople.net/posts/348640

Bison chortling.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

RockinEZ said:


> What a difference a comma makes


POST # 36/RockinEZ: It's that kind of
comment that's
keepin' You off the 100%+ Likeability List.

It went over the heads of 99.44% of
UPNF Readers!

Bison Admires.
Bison Inspires!


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## NASCAR1991 (Mar 26, 2016)

Well how about this.
If you think its a fake service dog.
When they get out provide them with a fake piss and 100 dollar cleaning fee.
Fake for fake
Now we all square


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

NASCAR1991 said:


> Well how about this.
> If you think its a fake service dog.
> When they get out provide them with a fake piss and 100 dollar cleaning fee.
> Fake for fake
> Now we all square


Go ahead, get deactivated.


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## NASCAR1991 (Mar 26, 2016)

Demon said:


> Go ahead, get deactivated.


With your mentality then it means you cant complain. So next time i will throw up in ur car and when you complain i will tell them you threw up and its fake puke. Or if i piss in ur car ill tell uber its water. Good luck smelling my piss stains.
Never complain ever never ever.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

NASCAR1991 said:


> With your mentality then it means you cant complain. So next time i will throw up in ur car and when you complain i will tell them you threw up and its fake puke. Or if i piss in ur car ill tell uber its water. Good luck smelling my piss stains.
> Never complain ever never ever.


I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. I'm not sure what you mean by "next time", have you ever been in my car a first time?

Let me be clear, I'm not complaining. I'm simply letting you know if you actually do this you'll be deactivated.


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## NASCAR1991 (Mar 26, 2016)

Demon said:


> I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. I'm not sure what you mean by "next time", have you ever been in my car a first time?
> 
> Let me be clear, I'm not complaining. I'm simply letting you know if you actually do this you'll be deactivated.


So you saying they will always take pax word for it and never take a drivers word?
Ok great...so from now on every uber i request and when he arrives ill cancel it and tell them he refused my service dog. So by next week we will have no driver's left and all rides be mine. 
Company needs to take word of a good drivers who done this for some time. And they do. Otherwise all pax will lie either to get a free ride or deactivate someone just because they didn't like his hair cut


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

NASCAR1991 said:


> So you saying they will always take pax word for it and never take a drivers word?
> Ok great...so from now on every uber i request and when he arrives ill cancel it and tell them he refused my service dog. So by next week we will have no driver's left and all rides be mine.
> Company needs to take word of a good drivers who done this for some time. And they do. Otherwise all pax will lie either to get a free ride or deactivate someone just because they didn't like his hair cut


It doesn't work if YOU cancel.

I don't think you fully understand the topic.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

elelegido said:


> http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Frustrated-by-Fake-Service-Dogs-208233211.html
> 
> Everyone's probably seen the emails from Uber and Lyft about us having to accommodate service animals. Which is fair enough.
> 
> ...


An "emotional support" dog is not anything but a dog, and all dogs, I suppose, can be claimed as such.

There's not much one can do about fake service dogs. You can't legally turn them away or even challenge them.
In fact, the only thing you can do is take them to court and have them demonstrate
in court by a professional that the dog can do what it is required by law to do. If you lose and they are a service dog, you'll have made
an expensive mistake of time and court costs ( hiring a lawyer? sheesh, I'm not seeing this as a win win deal at all ). And, if you win, what do you win? They already paid you for a ride. Note that there is no government certification process.

Rather than fight it, I accept all pooches, but I always ask if they have been walked recently, and if they haven't, I feel I have the right to decline.
I've yet to decline any pooch, but I do require they sit on the floor. Also, I've yet to have a problem with them, except maybe a few hairs, but more hair falls from my head ( have white long hair ) than I get dogs who shed, so I'm not worried about it.

Anecdote: My brother's previous dog ( she passed away ) had one of those fake certs ( she passed a two week course, and a real service dog goes through much longer training process, as far as I know ). Anyway, the local police give away 2 real service dogs every year, and they gave my brother one ( he's handicapped ) so now he has a real service dog, which can actually do all the things required on the government requirements list. There is no cert, to be a legal service dog, it must perform all the tasks ( commands , et c ) on the government site, and be dedicated to do things for the handicapped person that he or she cannot do by him or herself. Also, just because someone is not blind, does not mean he or she has a fake dog, I would never make any assumptions about the nature of their handicap, and noting it is illegal to even question about it.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Dan Uphoff said:


> In my state emotional and therapy dogs are considered service animals.


That's just not true. Washington state law RCW 49.60.040 defines service animal as "an animal that is *trained* for the purpose of assisting or accommodating a disabled person's sensory, mental, or physical disability."

This is the same definition as the federal ADA definition of what a service dog is. This definition specifically excludes (yep, by definition) untrained emotional support dogs.

Why do drivers simply rely on self reference for this instead of educating themselves, when it means letting customers walk all over them and do as they please with non-service animals? I can find no explanation for it.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> An "emotional support" dog is not anything but a dog, and all dogs, I suppose, can be claimed as such.
> 
> There's not much one can do about fake service dogs. You can't legally turn them away or even challenge them.
> In fact, the only thing you can do is take them to court and have them demonstrate
> ...


If I were you I'd read around the site on what a service dog actually is defined as, and how to filter out the fakes. I have a filtration method that has worked with every single fake service dog presented curbside at my car. Every single time, with no complaints to Uberlyft. When you explain correctly to fakers "why you will not be receiving a ride from me on this occasion" they know they've been rumbled and look for an driver who is uneducated in the subject to transport pooch and them.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

elelegido said:


> If I were you I'd read around the site on what a service dog actually is defined as, and how to filter out the fakes. I have a filtration method that has worked with every single fake service dog presented curbside at my car. Every single time, with no complaints to Uberlyft. When you explain correctly to fakers "why you will not be receiving a ride from me on this occasion" they know they've been rumbled and look for an driver who is uneducated in the subject to transport pooch and them.


I know what a service dog is, if you had read my post, a real service dog is owned by my brother, ( but i didn't mention he and is dogs are my roommates ).

I searched and couldn't find the filtration method. care to unlighten us? I'm open.

( noting that it's a moot point with me personally, I accept dogs anyway).

By the way, here is the law in question regarding what you can legally ask of the rider
regarding the dog:

*§ 35.136 Service animals*
(f) Inquiries. A public entity shall not ask about the nature or extent of a person's disability, but may make two inquiries to determine whether an animal qualifies as a service animal. A public entity may ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform. A public entity shall not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal. Generally, a public entity may not make these inquiries about a service animal when it is readily apparent that an animal is trained to do work or perform tasks for an individual with a disability (e.g., the dog is observed guiding an individual who is blind or has low vision, pulling a person's wheelchair, or providing assistance with stability or balance to an individual with an observable mobility disability).

That is the only 'legal' filtration method, any other is not lawful.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> I know what a service dog is, if you had read my post


I did read your post, which is why it was apparent to me that you were not clear on what a service dog is. You wrote:


> to be a legal service dog, it must perform all the tasks ( commands , et c ) on the government site


This is false; the ADA includes no specific task or list of tasks in its definition of a service dog.


> There's not much one can do about fake service dogs. You can't legally turn them away or even challenge them.


This is false; the ADA regulations state that we are allowed to ask two questions about the dog in question in order to determine if the dog qualifies as a service animal.

So, it was the content of your original post which showed that you were a little hazy on what a service dog is, and how to challenge the fakes. However, I see that you subsequently researched the law on this and were then able to quote the actual ADA regulations. And this is precisely the point of what I am saying - drivers should educate themselves on this topic, and not rely on self reference which is likely to be quite incorrect.


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