# We have it ALL wrong... give us less pay.. not More!



## uberlyfting123 (Mar 16, 2017)

Ive put some thought into this while ubering around. You know, we should all stop complaining about pay. It does NO good.

If the pay was good, guess what, more people sign up to the point where our number of rides go down. We get better pay, but less of it. We back to square one.

1. more pay = more ants = less money
2. less pay = Less ants = a little bit more money (in theory)

Our pay is low, so more people quit. So, we actually make MORE money this way.
If people knew up front... they made $10 an hour... less people would sign up.
We should demand less from UBER.

Don't you see, it's a zero Sum game. It doesn't matter how much Uber does and does not pay us. It's not relavant.

It always reaches an equilibrium.
As long as there are people willing to work for less than minimum wage, then our average goes down.

Best way to increase pay? Get people to understand that their CAR is the most important piece.
There are Lot of people driving in their shiny $30k cars.... losing money.. how long does it take to pay off a $30k car making $10 an hour?

I would say for about 75% of drivers out there.. UBER is a BAD deal


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

uberlyfting123 said:


> Ive put some thought into this while ubering around. You know, we should all stop complaining about pay. It does NO good.
> 
> If the pay was good, guess what, more people sign up to the point where our number of rides go down. We get better pay, but less of it. We back to square one.
> 
> ...


Like all ideological approaches, they seldom work that way in the real world.

"get people to understand". Well, if you have millions in the bank, you can take out NYT ads on the front page, and get the word out, but short of that, you won't have much effect. We have no union, and that's the problem .


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## uberlyfting123 (Mar 16, 2017)

We don't need a union.. that's another problem.. Let the free market work. But we need to get the info out.. DO NOT UBER, if you want to keep your car. Period.


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## Carbalbm (Jun 6, 2016)

You're suggesting other people not drive Uber so you can make more money driving Uber? You don't see the failure in logic here? If you begin to make more money driving Uber, it will become a better job opportunity for those making less.


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## uberlyfting123 (Mar 16, 2017)

I'm not suggesting that all other people not drive... but people who are "losing" to stop driving. 
As long as there are people who are willing to lose money to drive for Uber.. we will always make "little" money.

the point... it's not about UBER... it's about US.


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## uberebu (Jan 13, 2017)

uberlyfting123 said:


> We don't need a union.. that's another problem.. Let the free market work. But we need to get the info out.. DO NOT UBER, if you want to keep your car. Period.


Not like there even could be a union. Most people that sign up don't make it to 25 rides. Out of all only 4% make it to one year.

Who would be in the ranks and to what end? Unions are all about longevity and a lifetime of benefits. That and we are both labor and management.

An elite club of snobby ass Prius drivers on the other hand...The 4% Club!!!


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## Carbalbm (Jun 6, 2016)

uberlyfting123 said:


> I'm not suggesting that all other people not drive... but people who are "losing" to stop driving.
> As long as there are people who are willing to lose money to drive for Uber.. we will always make "little" money.
> 
> the point... it's not about UBER... it's about US.


I honestly doubt there are many, if any, people actually losing money driving Uber. The mileage deduction of a vehicle is a tax number, not an actual loss. My old car had 180k miles on it... it did not cost me $97,200. The car cost $10,000. I ended up with $97,200 in write-offs though. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how finance works which leads to assumptions like that.

Cars cannot depreciate below their value... outside of someone buying a brand new Escalade to drive in Orlando for $0.65/mile and $0.11/minute people are making money. This is why they drive. This is why they will continue to drive. The minimum wage in some states is $7.25/hr. Not hard to beat that driving Uber. Especially if you already own the car and pay insurance for other purposes. Then its an additional cost to operating for Uber (additional gas/maintenance).


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## FormerDriverAtl (Nov 15, 2015)

Carbalbm said:


> I honestly doubt there are many, if any, people actually losing money driving Uber. The mileage deduction of a vehicle is a tax number, not an actual loss. My old car had 180k miles on it... it did not cost me $97,200. The car cost $10,000. I ended up with $97,200 in write-offs though. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how finance works which leads to assumptions like that.
> 
> Cars cannot depreciate below their value... outside of someone buying a brand new Escalade to drive in Orlando for $0.65/mile and $0.11/minute people are making money. This is why they drive. This is why they will continue to drive. The minimum wage in some states is $7.25/hr. Not hard to beat that driving Uber. Especially if you already own the car and pay insurance for other purposes. Then its an additional cost to operating for Uber (additional gas/maintenance).


This is a rant post, stop being logical.


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## Carbalbm (Jun 6, 2016)

FormerDriverAtl said:


> This is a rant post, stop being logical.


Sorry, I meant... less drivers on the roads NOW. More SURGE. **** UBER! Down with Travis! Up with unions! ???


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## canyon (Dec 22, 2015)

more surge, flat rates like maybe 1.25 for x and 1.75 for xl and I think people would be much happier, but then I woke up to .75 a mile and 1.15 for xl.


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## uberlyfting123 (Mar 16, 2017)

I don't think you understand. If we get paid more, more people will sign on. More pay does nothing. 

Hmmm, I guess I am not clear enough.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

Stop recruiting. Stricter vehicle requirements. State background checks like Massachusetts. Let people quit. 
If 96% quit within a year, they WILL run out of new ants in 2 years. We won't have driverless cars by then. In 2020, the rates will probably be above 1.50 a mile everywhere, has to be high enough for people to get used to them for when the driverless cars have to be profitable


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

There is no solution to uber without substantially raising rates. This will however lead to an overall loss in revenue for uber, while simultaneously making them profitable...

No one at uber or lyft will do this...


I don't think either of these companies can be fixed,

Just be ready to jump off the sinking ships and make sure you don't invest money into either company.


And personally i think Uber has too much debt/impeding lawsuit loses to ever turn a profit, and once you account for all the lawsuits they are going to lose, they are probobly in the hole billions.

Lyft may be in better shape but they lose a lot of money to.

Maybe the next company that comes around *might* be able to turn a profit if they start at reasonable rates and don't go down.


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## u-Boat (Jan 4, 2016)

uberlyfting123 said:


> We don't need a union.. that's another problem.. Let the free market work.


 uBer is not a free market. They set rates, drivers don't. That's the exact opposite of a free market.


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## uberlyfting123 (Mar 16, 2017)

That is true, but what we make is really up to the market. Less drivers, higher our gross no matter what Uber pays us.


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## chief513z (Apr 29, 2017)

Uber need to set a limit on the drivers it put out on the road... Have a hiring freeze until the market demand more drivers... but that would go against its own purpose of making money and taking advantage of those who are Ubering for a living to make a living. In addition to Uber No Tipping Policy, that is a bunch of BS... That within its self-tell you Uber is looking out for its own pockets on the backs of those who it need that is doing its bidding... Uber Suck... Tipping actually supplement cost to the drivers...


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## uberlyfting123 (Mar 16, 2017)

Uber has no reason to limit drivers. Hence they will never do that.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Its true that lower rates to the drivers means less drivers and higher rates to the drivers means more drivers. If Uber's cut is consistent, lower rates to the drivers also means lower fares to the riders. Lower fares to the riders means more riders. More riders means more exposure in the market. More exposure means more potential future riders. Lower fares also means less competition. Less competition could mean higher fares in the future. 

Uber wants the maximum number of drivers at the minimum rate to the driver. They have the numbers that show them how many will drive at a given rate. Uber wants the maximum number of riders at the maximum fare to the rider. They have the numbers that show them how many will ride at a given fare. Where the supply of drivers curve meets the demand of riders curve, Uber will maximize short term profit. But this is a rapidly evolving industry with moving supply and demand numbers. This is the free market at work. Regulators are not fixing the price, Uber is setting a price for contractors. The contractors can take it or leave it. As independent contractors, Uber isn't the driver's only possible client.


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

Yes, lower rates equals less drivers. Then you can be so proud. .. you've got a job that no one else wants.


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## u-Boat (Jan 4, 2016)

bsliv said:


> This is the free market at work. Regulators are not fixing the price, Uber is setting a price for contractors. The contractors can take it or leave it.


 If you think uBer's business model is a true representation of a free market then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Here's a true free market:
uBer ditches surge pricing and allows drivers to set their own minimum, per mile and per minute rates 24/7/365. Free market, lmao.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

u-Boat said:


> If you think uBer's business model is a true representation of a free market then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Here's a true free market:
> uBer ditches surge pricing and allows drivers to set their own minimum, per mile and per minute rates 24/7/365. Free market, lmao.


Uber doesn't prevent me from charging my preferred rate unless I'm working their contracted offer. My government prevents me from charging my preferred rate. That is the problem.

I've advocated for a business model that does exactly what you suggest, set own rates based on when, where, and what is being hauled. One should get paid appropriately for giving rides whether in a Porche, Prius or old Pontiac. Starting a business like that would require one to go thru too many regulatory hurdles. Remove the regulations and say goodbye to Uber, taxi companies, etc. that have setup or gone thru the hurdles. Another company would start or evolve that would collect driver info/rates and allow riders to choose what suits them best. Or a craigslist for drivers/riders. For profit, private businesses are not preventing it.

Where's that bridge?


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

u-Boat said:


> uBer is not a free market. They set rates, drivers don't. That's the exact opposite of a free market.


Exactly


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## _McUber_ (Jul 27, 2016)

uberlyfting123 said:


> Ive put some thought into this while ubering around. You know, we should all stop complaining about pay. It does NO good.
> 
> If the pay was good, guess what, more people sign up to the point where our number of rides go down. We get better pay, but less of it. We back to square one.
> 
> ...


Nash equilibrium with bad ending no matter what each player is doing. I once hoped it was only a bad dream, but it is unfortunately very real. The way out is so simple yet close to impossible: Get out. Find real meaningful work or invent one. How many can see that, and how many can accomplish it. I'd say less than one tenth of one percent. Horror beyond comprehension. The world had changed so rapidly, just coastin to survive is no longer viable.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

uberlyfting123 said:


> Ive put some thought into this while ubering around. You know, we should all stop complaining about pay. It does NO good.
> 
> If the pay was good, guess what, more people sign up to the point where our number of rides go down. We get better pay, but less of it. We back to square one.
> 
> ...


A problem with your theory it wrong. less pay is worse. People don't know how low they make when they start driving. that's why Uber tries to give you longer rides when you start but my first 2 rides ever were problems.

If you knew they made you leave your house and drive 8 miles for a $2 fare you would never do another ride.


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## DeplorableDonald (Feb 16, 2017)

u-Boat said:


> uBer is not a free market. They set rates, drivers don't. That's the exact opposite of a free market.


I only do Boost or Surge rides. It's definitely not free market when investors money is subsidizing almost every ride I give. They lose money on the vast majority of rides I do.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

You need to go back to the drawing board and give it even more thought.
Even if a lot of the drivers are quitting because the pay is low, I don't want a ton of $2-4 rides. I'd rather have the pay be better, get less rides, but have them be $8+


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