# Uber should be taking their fee based on the total fare excluding GST.



## Paul Collins

Please sign this petition.

https://www.change.org/p/uber-to-charge-their-fee-on-the-total-fares-excluding-gst


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## UberDriverAU

I commend you on starting your own petition, but why are you petitioning yourself rather than Uber?!


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## ST DYMPHNA son

UberDriverAU said:


> I commend you on starting your own petition, but why are you petitioning yourself rather than Uber?!


I'm positive that a little reading might be good
http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2012/01/01/narcissus-and-the-lake/
This book is absolutely fantastic,highly recommended,could not stop reading it


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## SmileySyed

Paul Collins said:


> Please sign this petition.
> 
> https://www.change.org/p/uber-to-charge-their-fee-on-the-total-fares-excluding-gst


Signed the petition. I agree with you Paul.


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## corsair

Paul Collins said:


> Please sign this petition.
> 
> https://www.change.org/p/uber-to-charge-their-fee-on-the-total-fares-excluding-gst


Why the petition ? Why don't you just call your Uber management buddies direct ?


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> So it gathers support and is not just 'my opinion'.


...please explain what do you mean by "so it gathers support and is not just "my opinion"???
Whose opinion then ????


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## UberDriverAU

Well done on your petition Paul. Uber now states that from the 1st of December 2017 they will be taking 22% or 27.5% from all drivers, and this is exactly how much of the excluding GST amount they will be taking. Mission accomplished!


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## ST DYMPHNA son

UberDriverAU said:


> Well done on your petition Paul. Uber now states that from the 1st of December 2017 they will be taking 22% and 27.5% from all drivers, and this is exactly how much of the excluding GST amount they will be taking. Mission accomplished!


Would not bet my life on it but he will claim it...


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> Wrong. You must not have read or understood the petition. This dec 1 change means exactly the same income to drivers.
> I wanted Uber to charge their fee on the total fare excluding gst or for their fee to be gst inclusive as 20 or 25%, then Drivers would have made more income.
> $39 is not $40, right.


...so does it mean that your influence with uber does not exists???


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## UberDriverAU

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...so does it mean that your influence with uber does not exists???


One step at a time grasshoper. Paul clearly delivered on this petition, so perhaps we should give him a month or two to deliver increase pay for drivers.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

UberDriverAU said:


> One step at a time grasshoper. Paul clearly delivered on this petition, so perhaps we should give him a month or two to deliver increase pay for drivers.


...Bloody Oath...he can walk on the water...


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## Uxfuny

Paul Collins said:


> Please sign this petition.


Thank you Paul for putting the effort. I've signed the pattition


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## Uxfuny

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...please explain what do you mean by "so it gathers support and is not just "my opinion"???
> Whose opinion then ????


Definitely not the opinion of the trolls.


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## MyRedUber

Why does it matter that Uber calculates their fee using the total fare? If they used some different calculation, the percentage would be whatever would give them the same income.
And this petition again demonstrates a misunderstanding of GST.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Uxfuny said:


> Thank you Paul for putting the effort. I've signed the pattition
> 
> And you can troll on water.


..


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## UberDriverAU

Uxfuny said:


> It wasn't too hard understanding you, little unsophisticated troll.


How many accounts are you up to now?


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## ST DYMPHNA son

UberDriverAU said:


> How many accounts are you up to now?


just don't worry,not worth to bother


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## AvengingxxAngel

Uber DOES NOT care about their expendable Uber "partners" that are treated like employees without any benefits rather like casual workers. 
Everyone knows this, the only way things will change is if a legal firm with loads of cash take Uber on in a bid to change the terms and conditions of the Uber app to fairly reflect driver partners worth. 
Just make what you can and look toward other job opportunities, we don't even know how long this Uber "trend" will go on for.
They'll probably end up with refugee drivers that are happy to work paying a 40% commission fee within the next few years, who knows?
None of us should consider driving for Uber a long term solution for employment.


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## Who is John Galt?

UberDriverAU said:


> I commend you on starting your own petition, but why are you petitioning yourself rather than Uber?!


I believe because, even if Über doesn't take any notice, at least the petitioner will take notice of himself.

No one else does.
.


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## AvengingxxAngel

Who is John Galt? said:


> I believe because, even if Über doesn't take any notice, at least the petitioner will take notice of himself.
> 
> No one else does.
> .


I'm almost feeling sorry for PC (lol)


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## ST DYMPHNA son

AvengingxxAngel said:


> I'm almost feeling sorry for PC (lol)


well,you are a good person 
but as I was writing earlier under one of PC posts -"more one is sure that one is right the more severe the consequences when one is wrong"


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## AvengingxxAngel

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> well,you are a good person
> but as I was writing earlier under one of PC posts -"more one is sure that one is right the more severe the consequences when one is wrong"


Clever comment!


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## corsair

UberDriverAU said:


> so perhaps we should give him a month or two to deliver increase pay for drivers.


But he's already had months now and has delivered no increase whatsoever.


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## Sydney Uber

Paul Collins said:


> Please sign this petition.
> 
> https://www.change.org/p/uber-to-charge-their-fee-on-the-total-fares-excluding-gst


Thanks for the opportunity Paul! I chipped in a bit to get the message out there.

This has been a bee in my bonnet for years, personal visits to the Uber office, countless hours wasting time. My most recent email to them about this has just been ignored. They really do believe that they have to answer to no one. What a pack of A-holes.


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## corsair

Sydney Uber said:


> This has been a bee in my bonnet for years, personal visits to the Uber office, countless hours wasting time. My most recent email to them about this has just been ignored. They really do believe that they have to answer to no one. What a pack of A-holes.


What did you expect ? LOL


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## Bandy

Paul Collins said:


> You assume to much. I have one account and one account only.


How was your holiday flop?


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## Bandy

Paul Collins said:


> You also assume too much.


Sure pal, sure...


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## Lowestformofwit

Paul Collins said:


> I am not your 'pal' and you still assume to much.
> * too
> What a loss that is.


Unlike your enforced Forum absence.
Keep trying.


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## Bandy

Paul Collins said:


> I am not your 'pal' and you still assume to much.
> Petition at 143, guessing you did not sign it. What a loss that is.


Sure pal, sure.
Noted...


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> I am not your 'pal' and you still assume to much.
> Petition at 143, guessing you did not sign it. What a loss that is.


...Welcome back...WOW....143 sign it...WOW....WOW...is this number including people who sign it on the streets and it the Shopping Mall????...no wonder that you were absent from here for such long time,this is a hard work and someone have to do it...
P.S.Perhaps would be good to "slip" in to the Petition a "Help Starving Uber Drivers" or something similar as no one would know that you are a Pal with uber top managers anyway !!!!!!


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## AvengingxxAngel

I guess PC is trying in his own way to come up with ways to improve things for drivers, it's a good effort, but we all know it will come to nothing as Uber only care about profits like any big company does.
All they want is more drivers. 
The best change to the app is the waiting fee, I now have shorter wait times when picking up, which is great.


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## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> You assume to much. I have one account and one account only.


It's you who assumes too much. I doubt you'd create an anonymous account because you have an obsession with using your name. My post was directed to someone else who's known to create more accounts on an ongoing basis.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

AvengingxxAngel said:


> I guess PC is trying in his own way to come up with ways to improve things for drivers, it's a good effort, but we all know it will come to nothing as Uber only care about profits like any big company does.
> All they want is more drivers.
> The best change to the app is the waiting fee, I now have shorter wait times when picking up, which is great.


...that is commendable and as long as a"helping way" does not harm too much any one...
Kind of a fun to watch what a stubbornness can do to a person convinced that every one else is wrong
...Good Show...


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## Sydney Uber

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...Welcome back...WOW....143 sign it...WOW....WOW...is this number including people who sign it on the streets and it the Shopping Mall????...no wonder that you were absent from here for such long time,this is a hard work and someone have to do it...
> P.S.Perhaps would be good to "slip" in to the Petition a "Help Starving Uber Drivers" or something similar as no one would know that you are a Pal with uber top managers anyway !!!!!!


Somebody please fluff my pillows, help me upright with a shot of sherry and help me understand what is going on here!

Paul Collins is running a petition for support in regards to the EXTRA 2.5% all UBER drivers have been CHARGED in commissions.

A fare that a rider pays has 2 components as far as the ATO is concerned. The total "service fee" and the 10% GST that is calculated OFF that service fee. Put them together for the Gross fee

The ATO tracks the input credits that a rider claims through their ABN against your ABN.

BUT if UBER calculates its commission off both the service fee and the GST amount then they are in fact charging us 2.5% more in commission than our agreement.

By submitting 10% of the Gross whilst UBER takes its commission off the Gross as well means we are PAYING 12.5% GST and only claiming 10% in input credits ourselves.

Maybe Paul has said something in the past and put a few noses out of joint - I do that regularly. But on this issue support him as all drivers will benefit if we are successful in getting our just refund.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Sydney Uber said:


> Somebody please fluff my pillows, help me upright with a shot of sherry and help me understand what is going on here!
> 
> Paul Collins is running a petition for support in regards to the EXTRA 2.5% all UBER drivers have been CHARGED in commissions.
> 
> A fare that a rider pays has 2 components as far as the ATO is concerned. The total "service fee" and the 10% GST that is calculated OFF that service fee. Put them together for the Gross fee
> 
> The ATO tracks the input credits that a rider claims through their ABN against your ABN.
> 
> BUT if UBER calculates its commission off both the service fee and the GST amount then they are in fact charging us 2.5% more in commission than our agreement.
> 
> By submitting 10% of the Gross whilst UBER takes its commission off the Gross as well means we are PAYING 12.5% GST and only claiming 10% in input credits ourselves.
> 
> Maybe Paul has said something in the past and put a few noses out of joint - I do that regularly. But on this issue support him as all drivers will benefit if we are successful in getting our just refund.


...maybe a number 143 who sign it would be some indication of the situation...
The Petition has nothing to do with helping drivers and is only for a benefit of one person...


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## MyRedUber

Can't sign a petition that misunderstands or misrepresents the facts.


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## MyRedUber

Paul Collins said:


> How so? The uber service fee is calculated on the total fare, GST inc, in effect uber are taking a % of the GST collected. That is the facts.


Uber are not taking a percentage of the GST. They are calculating their fee based on the full fare, but taking it from the passenger's payment nett of GST. They could take the same amount by calculating it at a higher rate on the nett payment, but the amount would be the same.
Your argument is pointless.


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## Sydney Uber

MyRedUber said:


> Can't sign a petition that misunderstands or misrepresents the facts.


This is where I need help.....

Please tell me about the mis-representation you speak of?

Wouldn't you have a better Christmas (next year) if you had 2.5% of all your past earnings sent to you? Uber HAS incorrectly calculated its commission over ALL these years. The very FACT that these recent published Commission increases of 2.5% and the change of their commission calculation, is a clear admission that they've been caught out and are trying to quietly eff us over again.

ANYONE advocating that UBER be left off the hook on any of their obligations are must be UBER plants.


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## Who is John Galt?

MyRedUber said:


> Uber are not taking a percentage of the GST. They are calculating their fee based on the full fare, but taking it from the passenger's payment nett of GST. They could take the same amount by calculating it at a higher rate on the nett payment, but the amount would be the same.
> Your argument is pointless.


That member's arguments are always pointless.


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## MyRedUber

Paul Collins said:


> Uber take their 22 and 27.5% on the full fare including GST, right?


No. Uber calculate their commission on the full fare, but they take their commission from the nett fare. GST is not available to them or the driver. We are merely collecting GST on behalf of the ATO. The GST component was/is never our money or Uber's money.
A technical point, but important to understand.


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## MyRedUber

If Uber were to change their calculation to the Nett fare, then the 20% commission rate would become 22%, while the 25% commission rate would become 27.5%.
So, what would the point of your suggestion?


Paul Collins said:


> In reality, since Dec 1, uber should have remained on 20% and 25% and their fee should have been GST inclusive, as it always should have been.


Why "should"? By which law?

There's no point to your petition. You would be better to petition Uber to increase their fares, particularly in cities outside Sydney, and/or decrease their commission rate.


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## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> My petition, which you do not seem to understand well, is that Uber should be using the total fare, ex GS as the basis for their fee, so 22% ands 27.5% of the $100, or $22 and $27.50


Paul, what percentage of the fare excluding GST does Uber keep after they've paid their GST liability? The answer may surprise you.


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## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> 20 and 25% of the total fare inc gst. Doh!
> Pointless question as the petition is for Uber to calculate their fees in the total fare ex gst.


The correct answer is 22% and 27.5%, which oddly enough is *exactly* what you say they should be doing. Hmmm.


Paul Collins said:


> My petition, which you do not seem to understand well, is that Uber should be using the total fare, ex GS as the basis for their fee, *so 22% ands 27.5% of the $100, or $22 and $27.50*


How else would you like to demonstrate your inability to comprehend both maths and what you're really asking for? You've had a fantastic run this weekend.


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## Who is John Galt?

I think it is time that this poster's repetitive and inane posts and threads be recognised for what they are.
Quite simply, trolling.


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## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> Not sure how you get that, but totally irrelevant. The petition is for uber to calculate their fees on the total fare ex GST, not inc. That IS NOT what they are doing.


Neither Uber nor drivers get to keep GST, so what's relevant is what Uber keeps excluding GST as a percentage of the fare excluding GST. Using your own figures, they get to keep $22.00 and $27.50 out of every $100 excluding GST.


Paul Collins said:


> *so 22% ands 27.5% of the $100, or $22 and $27.50*


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## ST DYMPHNA son

...like a thick brick on the orbit of a planet or a Gold Fish with 7 seconds memory...coming back and back and backbackbackback...


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## UberDriverAU

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> Gold Fish with 7 seconds memory


This might be a suitable nickname.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

UberDriverAU said:


> This might be a suitable nickname.


...I'm out of here...bloody sickening


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## UberDriverAU

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...it is getting too much for me even though I'm attracted to it as moths to the light...all those threads about GST are bloody pointless and sickening


It looks like I was wrong about GST being less of an issue after the 1st of December. People like Goldie will ensure it's continuously brought up ad nauseam. We might as well have a laugh at his expense if we're going to debate it all the time.


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## Who is John Galt?

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...Gold Fish with 7 seconds memory...





UberDriverAU said:


> This might be a suitable nickname.


I have got to hand it to you both.....it is so tantalisingly close, but just......only just, misses the mark. 
I'm sure you remember Dory......


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## Sydney Uber

It ain't the first time UBER has overcharged drivers commission.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/23/uber-underpaid-drivers-new-york-city


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## Who is John Galt?

Paul Collins said:


> Seems that confrontational posts are disregarded when it comes to me. So be it. Trolls troll. That is what they do.


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## MyRedUber

Paul Collins said:


> Uber calculates their fees on the total fare inc GST. It should be on the total fare ex GST.


Why "should"? By what law?
It's just a method of calculating their fee. They're not taking any of your GST.
If they were to calculate their fee on the Nett fare, they'd increase the percentage to get the same $.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

...Petitions in Australia generally don't work too well,the way to go is a Postal Voting as it was very successful just recently,even though some other group of disadvantaged people have a trouble with repeating success of the first one...
The Narcissists of Australia would like to be recognized but they run in to "dead end" with their petition as every one and every each of them claim to be the one and the only one in Australia...
...So maybe seeking a help from a PR people or other Professionals would be good before one starts to put any kind of a petition to the People??? ...


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## Bandy

Paul Collins said:


> Seems that confrontational posts are disregarded when it comes to me. So be it. Trolls troll. That is what they do.


Noted...

I see almost 0.25% have signed.
Impressive to say the least...


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## MyRedUber

Paul Collins said:


> All true. It does however raise driver awareness of the issue. In my social media group with 7000 members it has been worthwhile to raise and discuss this issue.


What's the value in raising awareness of something that they can do nothing about?
All that serves to do is to enhance stress.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> In your opinion there is nothing drivers can do. I disagree.


...it would be so much easier if you told us what we as a drivers can do...
so please tell us,but please be serious...


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> Good question.
> 1. Make comments on Uber AU Facebook and twitter accounts.
> 2. Support those drivers that do have an open channel to Uber management. This is not the norm in this forum however.


1.good,but suppose,as myself,I don't and never will have FB account,but not bad,not bad...
2.are there any drivers who have an open channel to uber management????,how does one open a channel????


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> Yes, some drivers like myself have regular meetings with Uber management and have their personal contact details. We work on the assumption that Uber is not the enemy and present constructive criticism. We also work to get those drivers that have been deactivated a chance to be reactivated. Many have.
> In some cases Uber management will ask us to pass on information to the various social media groups.


...don't you sometime have thoughts to be like Tom Cruise in The Valkyrie film???...


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## lui6155

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ..don't you sometime have thoughts to be like Tom Cruise in The Valkyrie film???...


Bad analogy, remember how that worked out for the saboteurs (bang!)


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## ST DYMPHNA son

lui6155 said:


> Bad analogy, remember how that worked out for the saboteurs (bang!)


...colonel von Stauffenberg,well,he got done,but good old Tom still basking in glory...


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## Bandy

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> 1.good,but suppose,as myself,I don't and never will have FB account,but not bad,not bad...
> 2.are there any drivers who have an open channel to uber management????,how does one open a channel????


Their are hundreds of drivers talking with oober St D.
Just this one in particular has stated he does things for himself and does not represent drivers, his words.
And last I heard, he's a worker for the owner of that 'my social media group', not his group. Again, his words.
Noted...


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Bandy said:


> Their are hundreds of drivers talking with oober St D.
> Just this one in particular has stated he does things for himself and does not represent drivers, his words.
> And last I heard, he's a worker for the owner of that 'my social media group', not his group. Again, his words.
> Noted...


...maybe he just forgot to mention it...not everyone remembers everything????

...and as for 'my social media group' I would never belong to one,seating in front of a computer monitor,what social is about it????rather seat in front of an aquarium and watch fish swimming around...


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## Who is John Galt?

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...*maybe he just forgot to mention it...not everyone remembers everything????*
> 
> ...and as for 'my social media group' I would never belong to one,seating in front of a computer monitor,what social is about it????rather seat in front of an aquarium and watch fish swimming around...


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## ST DYMPHNA son

...but regardless,the most impressive thing is that this media social group went from 3100 members to 7000 in minutes or 3900 just left and 3100 remind????now,we might have some good argument about those numbers or maybe not ...


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> All true. It does however raise driver awareness of the issue. In my social media group with 7000 members it has been worthwhile to raise and discuss this issue.


...have you forgotten about this little inconvenience ?...


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> Ah no, I often call it my group as I 100% run it. I have clarified above. Did you miss that?


...oh I see,that's like me saying often that I want to sleep with Brigitte Bardot again.....not that I slept with her,just wanted before...oh men ,I might claim an ownership of many things now...thanks...next time you in Sydney,let me take you to my Opera House...


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> Good question.
> 1. Make comments on Uber AU Facebook and twitter accounts.
> 2. Support those drivers that do have an open channel to Uber management. This is not the norm in this forum however.


...and maybe I just misunderstood this one too,perhaps it was Chanel nr.5 open bottle to charm uber management...? if it worked,why not...


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## Who is John Galt?

Paul Collins said:


> Good question.
> *1. Make comments on Uber AU Facebook and twitter accounts.*
> 2. Support those drivers that do have an open channel to Uber management. This is not the norm in this forum however.





ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...and maybe I just misunderstood this one too,perhaps it was Chanel nr.5 open bottle to charm uber management...? if it worked,why not...


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## Bandy

Paul Collins said:


> Ah no, I often call it my group as I 100% run it. I have clarified above. Did you miss that?


As Americans say, you 'misspeak' a lot...


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## Bandy




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## corsair

Paul Collins . Just curious whether you have managed to it figure out yet ?


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## Paul Collins

corsair said:


> Paul Collins . Just curious whether you have managed to it figure out yet ?


Nothing to 'figure out'. Uber take their 22% and 27.5% on total total fare including GST, in effect taking a % of the GST uber fees to work out their fees and it should be calculated on the total fare excluding GST.


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## MyRedUber

Paul Collins said:


> Uber take their 22% and 27.5% on total total fare including GST, in effect taking a % of the GST.


Still not true, no matter how many times you type it.


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## Paul Collins

So $16.68 is the total fare inc get and $3.67 iOS 22% of that total.
All I am saying that this makes the 22% more like 24%.
The total fare Ex get is $15.17 and 22% of that would be $3.33

This is a comment from the ATO.

"Hi Sydney Uber,
Using your example of $110.00 fare:
Amount of fare: $110
GST: $10
Commission @25% of gross fare: $27.50

Using this example, I think the point you are making is that the commission of $27.50 is actually 27.5% of the nett (GST exclusive) fare.

Whilst that is true, the amount of the commission is a commercial matter to be worked out between the facilitator and drivers, and it is not something that the ATO has control over."


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## UberDriverAU

Even if they reduced their commission to 20%/25% inclusive of GST, people would continue to claim that they're still taking some of the GST, just a reduced amount.

Perhaps one day it'll sink into some thick skulls that GST is a debt owed to the ATO rather than an amount you hold in trust. Nearly 100% of drivers would be in breach of their fiduciary duties if what some here said were actually true, and the fact that businesses are never prosecuted on this basis over GST demonstrates the money is not held in trust.


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## Who is John Galt?

.



MyRedUber said:


> Still not true, no matter how many times you type it.


What I am having difficulty with is, if I was "fortunate to have the personal contact details for Uber management in Brisbane", I would be contacting them on the hotline, rather than banging about it *ad nauseam *in a forum where nobody is any longer interested in the OP's contention.

Perhaps the OP continues to contact Über management but forgets each time. Just a thought......

.


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## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> Even if they reduced their commission to 20%/25% inclusive of GST, people would continue to claim that they're still taking some of the GST, just a reduced amount.
> 
> Perhaps one day it'll sink into some thick skulls that GST is a debt owed to the ATO rather than an amount you hold in trust. Nearly 100% of drivers would be in breach of their fiduciary duties if what some here said were actually true, and the fact that businesses are never prosecuted on this basis over GST demonstrates the money is not held in trust.


I have no idea what you are on about.

The petition is for a simple change to work out the uber fees on the GST exclusive total fares, not the GST inclusive total fare. GST would still be paid by the drivers with a GST credit on the uber fees, whatever it be and as it is now and Uber rates would remain of 22 and 27.5%.

I have never claimed, not have I seen any others claim, that 'uber are taking some of the GST'. That is just you making stuff up.


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## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> I have no idea what you are on about.


Of course you don't. I wouldn't expect anything less.


Paul Collins said:


> The petition is for a simple change to work out the uber fees on the GST exclusive total fares, not the GST inclusive total fare.


If you take a percentage of the GST exclusive amount, you are also taking a percentage of the GST inclusive amount.


Paul Collins said:


> I have never claimed, not have I seen any others claim, that 'uber are taking some of the GST'. That is just you making stuff up.


Let's not forget your Doryesque qualities, Paul.


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## Who is John Galt?

Paul Collins said:


> I have no idea what you are on about.





UberDriverAU said:


> Of course you don't. I wouldn't expect anything less.
> Let's not forget your Doryesque qualities, Paul.


Is it actually possible that it is getting worse?
It might be Doryzheimer's.

.


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## Paul Collins

Petition at 147 from drivers who do ‘get it’.


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## MyRedUber

Paul Collins said:


> I have never claimed, not have I seen any others claim, that 'uber are taking some of the GST'. That is just you making stuff up.


Paul Collins, Today at 11:54 AM 


Paul Collins said:


> Uber take their 22% and 27.5% on total total fare including GST, in effect taking a % of the GST





Paul Collins said:


> The petition is for a simple change to work out the uber fees on the GST exclusive total fares


As I have pointed out many times, if that were the case, the %age would be higher. Uber would still take the same amount. So, your petition is pointless, still pointless, no matter how many times you rephrase your argument.


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## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> I have never claimed, not have I seen any others claim, that 'uber are taking some of the GST'. That is just you making stuff up.


Quotes are the bane of your Dory existence, aren't they Paul? You can't edit those, can you?


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## Paul Collins

MyRedUber said:


> Paul Collins, Today at 11:54 AM
> 
> As I have pointed out many times, if that were the case, the %age would be higher. Uber would still take the same amount. So, your petition is pointless, still pointless, no matter how many times you rephrase your argument.


Only if Uber increased their %.

Of course the full GST must be paid, it is just that Uber calculate their % on the total fares including GST. You get that, right?

As Uber are calculating their fees on the GST inclusive total fare, their fees are higher as the GST must be remitted. Uber are taking, as their fees, a percentage of the GST. Still true.
Does that effect the amount of GST payable? No.

Seems the ATO guy understood but you clowns can not. So be it.

I edit to make it more clear for the simple minds to follow.


----------



## Who is John Galt?

UberDriverAU and MyRedUber are adding value to various ongoing discussions, whereas some others are not.

.


----------



## MyRedUber

Paul Collins said:


> Uber are taking, as their fees, a percentage of the GST. Still true.


No, they're not.
Uber are calculating their commission based on the total fare, but they are not taking any part of the GST paid by the customer. They're taking their commission out of the fare not including GST, then passing the rest, including GST, on to the driver.
GST paid by the customer is never yours, it is never Uber's. You are just collecting it on behalf of the ATO.
The route that GST takes to get from the customer to the ATO has changed slightly. That's all.

You're wasting far too much time and mental energy on this pointless topic.
Try taking advice from people who actually understand it.


----------



## Paul Collins

MyRedUber said:


> No, they're not.
> Uber are calculating their commission based on the total fare, but they are not taking any part of the GST paid by the customer. They're taking their commission out of the fare not including GST, then passing the rest, including GST, on to the driver.
> GST paid by the customer is never yours, it is never Uber's. You are just collecting it on behalf of the ATO.
> The route that GST takes to get from the customer to the ATO has changed slightly. That's all.
> 
> You're wasting far too much time and mental energy on this pointless topic.
> Try taking advice from people who actually understand it.
> 
> Is that the plural form?


Dear me. Of course Uber are not taking and keeping any of the GST. I have never stated that. They are calculating their commissions on the total fare including GST, on that we agree, right?


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> Dear me. Of course Uber are not taking and keeping any of the GST. I have never stated that.


Ummm ... actually ...


Paul Collins said:


> Nothing to 'figure out'. Uber take their 22% and 27.5% on total total fare including GST, in effect taking a % of the GST.





Paul Collins said:


> Uber are taking, as their fees, a percentage of the GST. Still true.


----------



## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> Ummm ... actually ...


And still true. Uber fees are calculated from the total fares inclusive of GST.


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> And still true. Uber fees are calculated from the total fares inclusive of GST.


Ok. So you have said multiple times that they take a percentage of the GST, but you've also said multiple times that you have never said that. You're genuinely not seeing a problem here? I've advised Houston that there is a problem. Noted?


----------



## Paul Collins

Uber fees are calculated on total fares inc GST, right?


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> Uber fees are calculated on total fares inc GST, right?


Uber takes a percentage of what the rider pays. Whether GST is payable or not is irrelevant.


----------



## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> Uber takes a percentage of what the rider pays. Whether GST is payable or not is irrelevant.


GST is always payable on rider total fares. Ok, so you have confirmed that Uber calculated their fees from the GST inclusive total fare. Finally.

You guys are so much fun. I can not believe you are all as stupid as you appear but I do like the effort you put in to keep up the good fight against me. Well done.


----------



## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> GST is always payable on rider total fares. Ok, so you have confirmed that Uber calculated their fees from the GST inclusive total fare. Finally.
> 
> You guys are so much fun. I can not believe you are all as stupid as you appear but I do like the effort you put in to keep up the good fight against me. Well done.


...and the "legend"has been born...
...finally,we are all stupid and he is one and only who knows everything...


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> GST is always payable on rider total fares.


No it is not. Most of the time they will be subject to GST, but it's not true that every driver is "carrying on an enterprise". Due to the definition of "taxable supply", if you are not carrying on an enterprise, then any supplies that you make are not subject to GST.


----------



## Lowestformofwit

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...and the "legend"has been born...
> ...finally,we are all stupid and he is one and only who knows everything...


Ironic, isn't it, at this time of year that another messiah should now appear to us.
Wonder if he's got a direct line to a Senior Manger?


----------



## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> No it is not. Most of the time they will be subject to GST, but it's not true that every driver is "carrying on an enterprise". Due to the definition of "taxable supply", if you are not carrying on an enterprise, then any supplies that you make are not subject to GST.


So you are saying that some drivers do not have to pay GST? Really?



ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...and the "legend"has been born...
> ...finally,we are all stupid and he is one and only who knows everything...


Ah yes, nothing new about that, every reader of this and many other threads can easily identify that. You did say much early on in this thyroid that you were 'out of here'. I suppose you picked your dummy up and returned.



Lowestformofwit said:


> Ironic, isn't it, at this time of year that another messiah should now appear to us.
> Wonder if he's got a direct line to a Senior Manger?


Quite sure no manager of uber would want to engage with a member named Lowestformofwit. Oh my.....


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> So you are saying that some drivers do not have to pay GST? Really?


Yes. Just as some people who have a hobby doing other things don't have to pay income tax on what they sell and can't claim deductions for expenses they incur.


----------



## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> Yes. Just as some people who have a hobby doing other things don't have to pay income tax on what they sell and can't claim deductions for expenses they incur.


So, you think 'some' uber drivers have to pay GST and 'some' do not? Are you serious?


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> So, you think 'some' uber drivers have to pay GST and 'some' do not? Are you serious?


Do some research Paul, I'm not going to spoon feed everything to you.


----------



## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> Do some research Paul, I'm not going to spoon feed everything to you.


I am happy to leave it with you as the 'intelligent' member with the wrong advice that some Uber driver do not need to pay GST. That sums up your knowledge totally.


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> I am happy to leave it with you as the 'intelligent' member with the wrong advice that some Uber driver do not need to pay GST. That sums up your knowledge totally.


Those who do it as a hobby and are not carrying on an enterprise won't need to pay GST. That is correct. If your lack of knowledge doesn't allow you to see the facts, that is your problem and not mine. You can't even tell that you're contradicting yourself multiple times in the same thread, so I wouldn't expect you to understand something more complicated.


----------



## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> Those who do it as a hobby and are not carrying on an enterprise won't need to pay GST. That is correct. If your lack of knowledge doesn't allow you to see the facts, that is your problem and not mine.


You are wrong. The ATO have been quite clear that EVERY Uber driver needs and abn and must he gst registered and pay GST from the first dollar early. There is no such thing as a 'hobby' Uber driver.

Now I know why you are anonymous as it sounds like you are evading tax which is a crime.


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> You are wrong. The ATO have been quite clear that EVERY Uber driver needs and abn and must he gst registered and pay GST from the first dollar early. There is no such thing as a 'hobby' Uber driver.


*yawn* If you are carrying on an enterprise, yes.



Paul Collins said:


> Now I know why you are anonymous as it sounds like you are evading tax which is a crime.


I am carrying on an enterprise, so I have an ABN and I'm registered for GST and I pay my taxes. Try again.


----------



## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> *yawn* If you are carrying on an enterprise, yes.
> 
> I am carrying on an enterprise, so I have an ABN and I'm registered for GST and I pay my taxes. Try again.


But you are quite sure that 'some' Uber drivers do not need to pay any GST. I think we can leave it at that as an indication of your extensive lack of tax knowledge.


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> But you are quite sure that 'some' Uber drivers do not need to pay any GST. I think we can leave it at that as an indication of your extensive lack of tax knowledge.


For your education Paul:

https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Sta.../Before-you-get-started/Are-you-in-business-/

Watch the video.


----------



## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> For your education Paul:
> 
> https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Sta.../Before-you-get-started/Are-you-in-business-/
> 
> Watch the video.


Your lack of knowledge is dangerous if it is every taken as actual advice.

I do note that even your troll buddies are not backing you on this one.


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> Your lack of knowledge is dangerous if it is every taken as actual advice.


I have given no advice, just stated a fact. Your inability to comprehend is what is dangerous, because _you _end up advising people when you're one of the last people that should.


----------



## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> I have given no advice, just stated a fact. Your inability to comprehend is what is dangerous, because _you _end up advising people when you're one of the last people that should.


It is a fact that no Uber driver can be considered as a hobby. Your facts are wrong in regard to driving for Uber. Now, squirm out of this one.

Now let me think as a new driver should I trust an anonymous troll or someone who is happy to be known and stand behind what they say. Mmm....

Just to be clear you are stating that some Uber drivers do not need to have an abn and be gst registered. Dear me.

The ATO direct advice is here. Once again, you are wrong on this and other important tax issues.

https://www.ato.gov.au/general/the-sharing-economy-and-tax/


----------



## corsair

Paul Collins said:


> I have no idea


You're correct for a change ! Congrats.


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> It is a fact that no Uber driver can be considered as a hobby. Your facts are wrong in regard to driving for Uber. Now, squirm out of this one.


That's an assertion you have no means of proving. It *is* a fact that if you don't carry on an enterprise you do not need an ABN and do not need to register for GST. I don't expect you will understand the difference.


----------



## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> That's an assertion you have no means of proving. It *is* a fact that if you don't carry on an enterprise you do not need an ABN and do not need to register for GST. I don't expect you will understand the difference.


Oh I see, so your squirm is that it does not relate to Uber Drivers now?
Sure, it is a fact if you are not carry on an enterprise then you do not need an abn it gst registration, however all Uber drivers are an enterprise and none are considered as a hobby. Did you miss the ato link on the sharing economy?

Here it is again.
https://www.ato.gov.au/general/the-sharing-economy-and-tax/

You still saying that some Uber drivers are not an enterprise and do not need to pay gst or are you now backtracking on your position?



corsair said:


> You're correct for a change ! Congrats.


Why not include the complete sentence? Oh that's right it is much earlier to be a troll when cherry picking parts of a sentence.


----------



## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> Oh I see, so your squirm is that it does not relate to Uber Drivers now?
> Sure, it is a fact if you are not carry on an enterprise then you do not need an abn it gst registration, however all Uber drivers are an enterprise and none are considered as a hobby. Did you miss the ato link on the sharing economy?


That is your opinion. The ATO is presuming that people who have been paid by Uber are carrying on an enterprise rather than making a judgement based on the circumstances of each individual driver's circumstances. Is it your view that someone who's made a handful of trips and never does Uber again is operating an enterprise? What about someone who does the odd trip here and there and doesn't actually turn a profit? Are they carrying on an enterprise? I think there are a lot more drivers who aren't carrying on an enterprise than you realise. Someone who drives every weekend and makes a few hundred dollars, they are most certainly carrying on an enterprise and need an ABN and must be registered for GST.



Paul Collins said:


> Here it is again.
> https://www.ato.gov.au/general/the-sharing-economy-and-tax/
> 
> You still saying that some Uber drivers are not an enterprise and do not need to pay gst or are you now backtracking on your position?


The law is very clear Paul. You cannot be required to register for GST if you are not carrying on an enterprise:


http://www6.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/antsasta1999402/s23.5.html said:


> A NEW TAX SYSTEM (GOODS AND SERVICES TAX) ACT 1999 - SECT 23.5
> Who is required to be registered
> You are required to be registered under this Act if:
> 
> (a) you are * carrying on an * enterprise; and
> 
> (b) your * GST turnover meets the * registration turnover threshold.
> 
> Note: It is the entity that carries on the enterprise that is required to be registered (and not the enterprise).





http://www6.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb/au/legis/cth/consol_act/antsasta1999402/s144.5.html said:


> A NEW TAX SYSTEM (GOODS AND SERVICES TAX) ACT 1999 - SECT 144.5
> Requirement to register
> (1) You are required to be registered if, in * carrying on your enterprise, you supply * taxi travel.
> 
> (2) It does not matter whether:
> 
> (a) your * GST turnover meets the * registration turnover threshold; or
> 
> (b) in * carrying on your enterprise, you make other supplies besides supplies of * taxi travel.
> 
> (3) This section has effect despite section 23-5 (which is about who is required to be registered).


----------



## Lowestformofwit

Paul Collins said:


> Quite sure no manager of uber would want to engage with a member named Lowestformofwit. Oh my.....


And, of course, that's my real name.
(He said, sarcastically.)
They probably cringe when they hear your real name on the other end of the line, too.


----------



## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> So you are saying that some drivers do not have to pay GST? Really?
> 
> Ah yes, nothing new about that, every reader of this and many other threads can easily identify that. You did say much early on in this thyroid that you were 'out of here'. I suppose you picked your dummy up and returned.
> 
> Quite sure no manager of uber would want to engage with a member named Lowestformofwit. Oh my.....


...I suppose you would delete any of your posts contradicting anything you wrote before as you usually do ,yes,you are a legend but in wrong meaning of the word...


----------



## Hugh G

Lowestformofwit said:


> Ironic, isn't it, at this time of year that another messiah should now appear to us.


----------



## ST DYMPHNA son

...it is really kind of sad as some people have such short span of memory and we will have to go through the same soon...
but hopefully they don't remember the grief they coursed upon others and them selfs...


----------



## Lowestformofwit

Hugh G said:


>


Think you're right, Hugh.
Story going round is that he's currently on a 'holiday'.


----------



## ST DYMPHNA son

...kind of a sweet justice for anyone called "stupid"....thanks Pull...


----------



## corsair

Paul Collins said:


> Why not include the complete sentence?


Ok sorry, the complete sentence then...



Paul Collins said:


> I have no idea what you are on about.


Better now ? I mean it's only been explained to you about a thousand million times in a thousand different ways, and you still haven't a clue.



Paul Collins said:


> I have no idea what you are on about.


Maybe this might be of help to you ?

https://www.bookdepository.com/GST-BAS-for-Dummies-Angela-Ryan/9781740310338


----------



## Sleepo

UberDriverAU said:


> That's an assertion you have no means of proving. It *is* a fact that if you don't carry on an enterprise you do not need an ABN and do not need to register for GST. I don't expect you will understand the difference.


*

The Ride sharing industry have different rules refer below*

*GST*
*Under $75,000*
If your turnover is below, or is projected to be below, the GST threshold of $75,000 per year, you are not required to register for GST. However, you can apply for an ABN, for example if you're going to invoice businesses for work you do that is outside of the sharing economy. You can also choose to register for GST if you want.

If you have a ride-sourcing enterprise, special rules apply and you must have an ABN and register for GST regardless of your turnover.


----------



## UberDriverAU

Sleepo said:


> If you have a ride-sourcing enterprise,


If being the operative word.


----------



## Sleepo

UberDriverAU said:


> If being the operative word.


If is not appropriate, any income at all from ridesharing requires abn and gst registration


----------



## UberDriverAU

Sleepo said:


> If is not appropriate, any income at all from ridesharing requires abn and gst registration


In your opinion.


----------



## MyRedUber

UberDriverAU said:


> In your opinion.


No. That's from the Commissioner of Taxation.

Your own petition tells you that you're wrong:

*Comment from an ATO representative... (based on previous rates)*
'Hi Sydney Uber,
Using your example of $110.00 fare:
Amount of fare: $110
GST: $10
Commission @25% of gross fare: $27.50

Using this example, I think the point you are making is that the commission of $27.50 is actually 27.5% of the nett (GST exclusive) fare.

Whilst that is true, the amount of the commission is a commercial matter to be worked out between the facilitator and drivers, and it is not something that the ATO has control over.'


----------



## UberDriverAU

MyRedUber said:


> No. That's from the Commissioner of Taxation.


Correct. And he correctly states that *if* you carry on a ride-sharing enterprise, *then* you must obtain and ABN and register for GST.



MyRedUber said:


> Your own petition tells you that you're wrong:


Perhaps you are mistaking me for someone else?


----------



## MyRedUber

UberDriverAU said:


> Correct. And he correctly states that *if* you carry on a ride-sharing enterprise, *then* you must obtain and ABN and register for GST.


If you do just one fare for any of the Booking Service Providers in Australia, you're carrying on a ridesharing enterprise and you must obtain an ABN, register for GST, submit a BAS every quarter you remain registered for GST, and remit all GST collected (less GST component of expenses) to the ATO.



UberDriverAU said:


> Perhaps you are mistaking me for someone else?


This forum software combines consecutive messages.


----------



## Sleepo

UberDriverAU said:


> In your opinion.


its not my opinion, it is what the ATO quotes, and the most important fact is that RIDE Sharing is outside the general enterprise conditions for GST, which means all your quotes re enterprise conditions are irrelevant


----------



## UberDriverAU

Sleepo said:


> its not my opinion, it is what the ATO quotes, and the most important fact is that RIDE Sharing is outside the general enterprise conditions for GST, which means all your quotes re enterprise conditions are irrelevant


No it is not. The legislation explicitly mentions carrying on an enterprise:


http://www6.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb/au/legis/cth/consol_act/antsasta1999402/s144.5.html said:


> A NEW TAX SYSTEM (GOODS AND SERVICES TAX) ACT 1999 - SECT 144.5
> Requirement to register
> (1) You are required to be registered if, in * carrying on your enterprise, you supply * taxi travel.
> 
> (2) It does not matter whether:
> 
> (a) your * GST turnover meets the * registration turnover threshold; or
> 
> (b) in * carrying on your enterprise, you make other supplies besides supplies of * taxi travel.
> 
> (3) This section has effect despite section 23-5 (which is about who is required to be registered).


The requirement to register for GST does not apply if you are not carrying on an enterprise.


----------



## ST DYMPHNA son

...I would not be very shocked if some members of this forum have forgotten their own name and started using a"holiday nick name"...


----------



## Sleepo

UberDriverAU said:


> No it is not. The legislation explicitly mentions carrying on an enterprise:
> 
> The requirement to register for GST does not apply if you are not carrying on an enterprise.


 I hear where you are coming from, however everything i have read and a discussion with tax office indicates you must be registered for GST and have an ABN. I certainly don't agree with having to pay GST for under $75k, when thousands of other businesses get away with not paying. Even the following leaves room for interpretation

With the increasing number of new and innovative businesses forming such as Uber, questions have been asked like 'how does the government regulated ride-sharing arrangements and GST'? Generally, a business only needs to register for GST if it has an annual turnover of $75,000 or more. However this threshold does *not* apply to taxi operators.

The law currently requires all taxi operators to be registered for Goods and Services Tax (*"GST"*) if, in carrying on an enterprise, they supply taxi travel.

"_Taxi travel_ means travel that involves transporting passengers, by taxi or limousine, for fares." (s195.1 of the GST Act)

"Taxi" is not defined and so takes its ordinary meaning. It is defined in The Macquarie Dictionary to mean, "_a motor car for public hire, esp. one fitted with a taximeter_".

The Australian Tax Office (*"ATO"*) has recently confirmed that for GST purposes, the word _'taxi'_ is taken by it to mean:

_'a car (vehicle) made available for public hire that is used to transport passengers for fares'._

This broad definition means that drivers who participate in ride-sourcing arrangements such as Uber will be regarded by the ATO as supplying taxi travel services and will subsequently be caught by the GST legislation pertaining to taxi operators. The ATO take the view that ride-sourcing involves an arrangement where:


_"a driver makes a car available for public hire;"_
_"a passenger requests a ride via a third party facilitator, for example, by using a website or a smart phone app;" _and
_"the driver then uses the car to transport the passenger for a fare, with a view to make a profit."_
Drivers partaking in ride-sourcing arrangements will now fall within the existing regime relating to taxi operators, which requires that all taxi operators must be registered for GST, regardless of turnover. This means that providing services via ride-sourcing arrangements is a taxable supply under GST legislation.


----------



## UberDriverAU

If you have a look at the definition of "taxable supply" it also is conditional upon carrying on an enterprise:


http://www6.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb/au/legis/cth/consol_act/antsasta1999402/s9.5.html said:


> A NEW TAX SYSTEM (GOODS AND SERVICES TAX) ACT 1999 - SECT 9.5
> Taxable supplies
> You make a taxable supply if:
> 
> (a) you make the supply for * consideration; and
> 
> (b) the supply is made in the course or furtherance of an * enterprise that you * carry on; and
> 
> (c) the supply is * connected with the indirect tax zone; and
> 
> (d) you are * registered, or * required to be registered.
> 
> However, the supply is not a * taxable supply to the extent that it is * GST-free or * input taxed.


The legislation is worded such that GST can only apply if you are carrying on an enterprise, regardless of the activity that you are performing. The link I posted earlier uses an example of a graphic designer spending five hours per week (260 hours per year) developing websites but isn't an enterprise because there isn't an intention to make a profit. And here we have people saying a single five minute Uber trip mandates an ABN and GST registration. This view clearly isn't supported by the legislation in my opinion, and isn't consistent with the ATO's public information on how to determine whether or not you're running an enterprise.


----------



## Sleepo

Sleepo said:


> I hear where you are coming from, however everything i have read and a discussion with tax office indicates you must be registered for GST and have an ABN. I certainly don't agree with having to pay GST for under $75k, when thousands of other businesses get away with not paying. Even the following leaves room for interpretation
> 
> With the increasing number of new and innovative businesses forming such as Uber, questions have been asked like 'how does the government regulated ride-sharing arrangements and GST'? Generally, a business only needs to register for GST if it has an annual turnover of $75,000 or more. However this threshold does *not* apply to taxi operators.
> 
> The law currently requires all taxi operators to be registered for Goods and Services Tax (*"GST"*) if, in carrying on an enterprise, they supply taxi travel.
> 
> "_Taxi travel_ means travel that involves transporting passengers, by taxi or limousine, for fares." (s195.1 of the GST Act)
> 
> "Taxi" is not defined and so takes its ordinary meaning. It is defined in The Macquarie Dictionary to mean, "_a motor car for public hire, esp. one fitted with a taximeter_".
> 
> The Australian Tax Office (*"ATO"*) has recently confirmed that for GST purposes, the word _'taxi'_ is taken by it to mean:
> 
> _'a car (vehicle) made available for public hire that is used to transport passengers for fares'._
> 
> This broad definition means that drivers who participate in ride-sourcing arrangements such as Uber will be regarded by the ATO as supplying taxi travel services and will subsequently be caught by the GST legislation pertaining to taxi operators. The ATO take the view that ride-sourcing involves an arrangement where:
> 
> 
> _"a driver makes a car available for public hire;"_
> _"a passenger requests a ride via a third party facilitator, for example, by using a website or a smart phone app;" _and
> _"the driver then uses the car to transport the passenger for a fare, with a view to make a profit."_
> Drivers partaking in ride-sourcing arrangements will now fall within the existing regime relating to taxi operators, which requires that all taxi operators must be registered for GST, regardless of turnover. This means that providing services via ride-sourcing arrangements is a taxable supply under GST legislation.[/QUOTE
> 
> This may be of interest as well


----------



## ST DYMPHNA son

...you don't know when to stop!!!!,do you?????...


----------



## MyRedUber

Sleepo said:


> I certainly don't agree with having to pay GST for under $75k, when thousands of other businesses get away with not paying


You're not paying GST. You're collecting from your customer and passing it to the ATO.


UberDriverAU said:


> The legislation is worded such that GST can only apply if you are carrying on an enterprise


You are carrying on an enterprise.



UberDriverAU said:


> This view clearly isn't supported by the legislation in my opinion


You should get a job as a lawyer for the ATO. They clearly do not understand what they're doing.


----------



## Sleepo

MyRedUber said:


> You're not paying GST. You're collecting from your customer and passing it to the ATO.
> 
> You are carrying on an enterprise.
> 
> You should get a job as a lawyer for the ATO. They clearly do not understand what they're doing.


Yes we are collecting for the ATO, but if we didn't have to collect we could charge the same fee as someone who does have to pay GST and be 10% better off (mindful of other tax implications) , as for the enterprise bit, we all know Uber appealed against the decision to classify ride sharing as Taxi and lost (this is why ride sharing is not subject to normal GST considerations ) subsequently we are stuck in this situation until challenged again or other rulings are made.


----------



## corsair

Just to clarify, the unsustainable rates Uber has put in place do not allow me to carry out a serious enterprise, consequently I only do ride sharing as a *hobby*. As such I no longer pay GST or submit BAS statements.


----------



## Sleepo

corsair said:


> Just to clarify, the unsustainable rates Uber has put in place do not allow me to carry out a serious enterprise, consequently I only do ride sharing as a *hobby*. As such I no longer pay GST or submit BAS statements.


tax time may be interesting


----------



## corsair

Sleepo said:


> tax time may be interesting


I don't have "tax time". It's wonderful.


----------



## MyRedUber

corsair said:


> Just to clarify, the unsustainable rates Uber has put in place do not allow me to carry out a serious enterprise, consequently I only do ride sharing as a *hobby*. As such I no longer pay GST or submit BAS statements.


You do realise that the customer is paying GST, and your are failing to pass that on to the ATO? You will end up in gaol once ATO datamatch you from information provided by Uber and your bank.
Either that, or you're just full of BS.


----------



## ST DYMPHNA son

...the GST money belong to ATO and whatever differences in interpretation of the GST Law should not aggravate so many people on this forum...let it go...
...If we put so much energy and time to discuss a blunt rip off with uber commission of 22 and 27.5%,we might actually achieve something more constrictive...
Let it go...


----------



## UberDriverAU

MyRedUber said:


> You are carrying on an enterprise.


Yes I am. More than one in fact.


----------



## MyRedUber

UberDriverAU said:


> Yes I am. More than one in fact.


Because you drive rideshare, you have an ABN and are registered for GST as a Sole Trader. 
Because you are registered for GST, you should be collecting GST from all of your customers, in all of your enterprises as a Sole Trader.

This GST thread is just about full.
Time to consider starting a fresh GST thread.


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## corsair

MyRedUber said:


> Because you drive rideshare, you have an ABN and are registered for GST as a Sole Trader.
> Because you are registered for GST, you should be collecting GST from all of your customers, in all of your enterprises as a Sole Trader.
> 
> This GST thread is just about full.
> Time to consider starting a fresh GST thread.


mmmm... yes thinking further about what's morally correct I think I maybe I should pass on the GST component of the fare, which the rider has paid, onto the ATO. 
However, I am not going to be assessed for, or pay income tax on it because I'm just driving as a hobby. Let's face it, with joke rates like that, which I have no control over, it shouldn't seriously be considered as a business.


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## MyRedUber

Morally correct? It's also a legal requirement.
As for Income Tax, if your total income is over the tax-free threshold, you are obliged to declare and pay income tax at your marginal rate on all income derived from your rideshare enterprise, no matter how small. The ATO have access to transactions from Uber and your bank. No matter how small, rideshare is never considered a hobby.


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## UberDriverAU

MyRedUber said:


> Morally correct? It's also a legal requirement.
> As for Income Tax, if your total income is over the tax-free threshold, you are obliged to declare and pay income tax at your marginal rate on all income derived from your rideshare enterprise, no matter how small. The ATO have access to transactions from Uber and your bank. No matter how small, rideshare is never considered a hobby.


Your assertion certainly doesn't match the information published by the ATO in 2016:


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## Who is John Galt?

.
But......but.....that can't be right.
It conflicts with the Oracle of Coolum's advice.

This is is devastating.

.


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## UberDriverAU

Who is John Galt? said:


> .
> But......but.....that can't be right.
> It conflicts with the Oracle of Coolum's advice.
> 
> This is is devastating.
> 
> .


The rules about quarantining non-commercial losses offer some guidance on what is considered "little more than a hobby". If you exceed $20K in assessable income or made a profit in three out of the past five years, a loss would be considered a commercial loss by the ATO, and you would be allowed to offset it against other taxable income.


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## MyRedUber

UberDriverAU said:


> Your assertion certainly doesn't match the information published by the ATO in 2016:


Infrequently would be taken to mean less than one fare a week or something similar.
I'm willing to bet a month's income that, if you're UberXing, you're carrying on an enterprise in ATO's eyes.


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## UberDriverAU

MyRedUber said:


> Infrequently would be taken to mean less than one fare a week or something similar.
> I'm willing to bet a month's income that, if you're UberXing, you're carrying on an enterprise in ATO's eyes.


For some reason you're focusing on the quantity of trips rather than what is more important: whether or not a profit is being made. The ATO isn't going to collect any taxes from someone who's expenses consistently exceed or match their revenue. The ATO might even find themselves having to pay such drivers because their GST creditable exceeds their GST payable.

Some people are taking the lack of a GST threshold for "taxi travel" and are trying to apply this more generally to unrelated things. The first step is answering the question "Are you carrying on an enterprise?", and there are no special rules regarding "taxi travel" that need to be considered when answering that question.


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## MyRedUber

Boring.
Just pay your taxes.


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## UberDriverAU

MyRedUber said:


> Boring.
> Just pay your taxes.


I do, and it's boring because now you realise you're wrong and you can't think of a better reply.


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## MyRedUber

UberDriverAU said:


> I do, and it's boring because now you realise you're wrong and you can't think of a better reply.


No. Just tired of your pointless arguments.


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## UberDriverAU

MyRedUber said:


> No. Just tired of your pointless arguments.


Well run along then.


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## corsair

MyRedUber said:


> Boring.
> Just pay your taxes.


I would if I were liable. But as I said I only drive Uber as a "hobby" and therefore am not legally liable for income tax.


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## Jack Malarkey

corsair said:


> I would if I were liable. But as I said I only drive Uber as a "hobby" and therefore am not legally liable for income tax.


If indeed it's legally and factually a hobby, you're correct but the courts have confirmed you can run a business in a small way.

See https://www.business.gov.au/info/plan-and-start/a-business-or-a-hobby.


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## MyRedUber

Jack Malarkey said:


> If indeed it's legally and factually a hobby, you're correct but the courts have confirmed you can run a business in a small way.
> See https://www.business.gov.au/info/plan-and-start/a-business-or-a-hobby.


"
*Benefits of being a hobby*

Personal enjoyment and satisfaction.
You can gift or sell your work for the cost of materials.
You can do it in your own time or when people contact you.
You don't have the reporting obligations of a business."
One out of four does not make it a hobby.


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## UberDriverAU

MyRedUber said:


> "
> *Benefits of being a hobby*
> 
> Personal enjoyment and satisfaction.
> You can gift or sell your work for the cost of materials.
> You can do it in your own time or when people contact you.
> You don't have the reporting obligations of a business."
> One out of four does not make it a hobby.


It says "Benefits of being a hobby", not "Requirements to be considered a hobby". More relevantly:

*How do I know if it's a business or a hobby?*
It's important to understand the differences between a hobby and a business for tax, insurance and legal purposes.

Key questions to consider:


Is the activity being undertaken for commercial reasons?
Is your main intention, purpose or prospect to make a profit?
Do you regularly and repeatedly undertake your activity?
Is your activity planned, organised and carried out in a businesslike manner?
If you answered yes to most of these questions, you're likely to be running a business, although it depends on your individual circumstances. The ATO website provides further questions, information and examples to help you understand the differences between a hobby and a business.
​If anyone is wants certainty on whether they're doing Uber as a hobby, they can always apply to the ATO for a private ruling.


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## MyRedUber

UberDriverAU said:


> It says "Benefits of being a hobby", not "Requirements to be considered a hobby".


You really do take yourself too seriously.
Relax, enjoy the driving, and pay your taxes. Easy.


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## Justx

MyRedUber said:


> You really do take yourself too seriously.
> Relax, enjoy the driving, and pay your taxes. Easy.


I do relax and enjoy the driving because like some others I only do it as a hobby and dont have to worry about tax.

You obviously dont do it as a hobby so enjoy the stress and tax refurns. Easy


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## MyRedUber

Justx said:


> I only do it as a hobby and dont have to worry about tax.


I don't worry about tax because I'm below the tax-free threshold, but I do have to submit yearly income tax returns because I have an ABN.
If you drive rideshare you must have an ABN. If you have an ABN you must submit yearly income tax returns. It's the law.


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## Who is John Galt?

MyRedUber said:


> It's the law.


L.A.W. law?
Are you actually Paul Keating?

.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

....Merry Christmas to all drivers and accountants....


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Justx said:


> And to all mentally challenged wannabe accountants too ...
> 
> PS How's the petition to yourself going ?


...are you asking me or Paul C.???,but the Petition must be like a Collins Class Submarines,close to sinking


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## Paul Collins

S


corsair said:


> Ok sorry, the complete sentence then...
> 
> Better now ? I mean it's only been explained to you about a thousand million times in a thousand different ways, and you still haven't a clue.
> 
> Maybe this might be of help to you ?
> 
> https://www.bookdepository.com/GST-BAS-for-Dummies-Angela-Ryan/9781740310338
> 
> View attachment 186216


So is the Uber fee charged on the fares in or ex GST? You got any clue?


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## Who is John Galt?

Paul Collins said:


> S
> 
> So is the Uber fee charged on the fares in or ex GST? You got any clue?


What, *you* don't have a clue?

.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> S
> 
> So is the Uber fee charged on the fares in or ex GST? You got any clue?


...Happy New Year Paul...
...the answer to your question is very simple or very complicated
or it's neither or both...


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## Paul Collins

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...Happy New Year Paul...
> ...the answer to your question is very simple or very complicated
> or it's neither or both...


It is simple.

Is the 22 and 27.5% calculated from the total fare inc GST?

The answer is yes.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> It is simple.
> 
> Is the 22 and 27.5% calculated from the total fare inc GST?
> 
> The answer is yes.


...I'm impressed,so how was your two weeks holiday???,I hope that searching for the answers was not the only your engagement,any pleasures???...


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## Twitter

ATO has been sending nasty letters lately to Uber drivers not registered for GST/ABN, demanding their cut.

You will have a lot of explaining to do once you get that ATO letter of demand, highlighting the exact dollar figure YOU EARNED, since day one of Uber driving.

Uber driver are like taxi driver and must pay GST from first dollar. Enjoy dealing with the ATO once they contact you, "hobbyists".

May i suggest you start paying your GST bill before it grows out of control.


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