# How to make money with Uber's upfront pricing system.



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

For those who have been in this game for a while, should probably know what your per mile expenses is by now for last year. If you do this will be the quickest and most simplified way to make sure you're not losing money.









P/u miles 8.7
D/o miles 7.01
Total. 15.71 miles

15.71 / $13.86 miles =
$.88 a mile.



If your average operation cost is $.35, your actual profit would be roughly $.53 per mile AFTER estimated cost per mile.


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

So if we do the long pickups the pay increases? So far I stuck to normal pings and the pay is less by a minimum of a dollar per trip.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

TX Uber Ant said:


> So if we do the long pickups the pay increases? So far I stuck to normal pings and the pay is less by a minimum of a dollar per trip.












Now it looks decent until you realize the fact you still need to get back.

186 minutes
185 miles

$59.35


You decide.


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 643876
> 
> 
> Now it looks decent until you realize the fact you still need to get back.
> ...


That trip would pay $62.11 in my market prior to these changes. It is looking like trips under ten miles are paying slightly more and any trip longer than that is paying less and the longer the trip the deeper the cut. Is this what you have been experiencing?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

TX Uber Ant said:


> That trip would pay $62.11 in my market prior to these changes. It is looking like trips under ten miles are paying slightly more and any trip longer than that is paying less and the longer the trip the deeper the cut. Is this what you have been experiencing?


Yup. 
That's about right.


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## backstreets-trans (Aug 16, 2015)

W00dbutcher said:


> For those who have been in this game for a while, should probably know what your per mile expenses is by now for last year. If you do this will be the quickest and most simplified way to make sure you're not losing money.
> 
> View attachment 643863
> 
> ...


Your math is wrong but we get the point. I scanned most of the trips you posted and if any get close to paying $1/mile then that's about as good as it gets. It seems Uber is trying to limit us to making $30/hr on the best trips and not much more. 

I guess they think that is all we're worth. They might as well make us hourly employees because this new strategy is limiting our ability to make money and spreading the earnings to the lower paying rides.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> For those who have been in this game for a while, should probably know what your per mile expenses is by now for last year. If you do this will be the quickest and most simplified way to make sure you're not losing money.
> 
> View attachment 643863
> 
> ...


Are you doing a flip-flop? You've been ripping the new system to shreds and posted screenshot after screenshot of terrible rides. Now you seem to be doing a 180.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

backstreets-trans said:


> Your math is wrong but we get the point. I scanned most of the trips you posted and if any get close to paying $1/mile then that's about as good as it gets. It seems Uber is trying to limit us to making $30/hr on the best trips and not much more.
> 
> I guess they think that is all we're worth. They might as well make us hourly employees because this new strategy is limiting our ability to make money and spreading the earnings to the lower paying rides.


Fixed. Doing this between rides. Lol


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Are you doing a flip-flop? You've been ripping the new system to shreds and posted screenshot after screenshot of terrible rides. Now you seem to be doing a 180.


Nope... Honest mistake in calculation. The how to make money is what you need to be looking for price wise to make money. Market prices will vary but this method will help you keep your head above the cesspool we are now all swimming in with this system.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Another thing that people may want to keep in mind, is the internet latency. Seeing how most of these radar request and pings are now based solely on how fast of a finger you have, if you have a crappy internet connection be prepared to have a lot of your good rides you chose stolen from you because of the latency.


Both requests and pings are sent out to multiple drivers at once.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> Nope... Honest mistake in calculation.


Mistake in calculation of what? Those earlier screenshots with the bad payouts and long distance pickups?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> Another thing that people may want to keep in mind, is the internet latency. Seeing how most of these radar request and pings are now based solely on how fast of a finger you have, if you have a crappy internet connection be prepared to have a lot of your good rides you chose stolen from you because of the latency.
> 
> 
> Both requests and pings are sent out to multiple drivers at once.


How many crashes are these flash 5 second pings gonna cause?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Mistake in calculation of what? Those earlier screenshots with the bad payouts and long distance pickups?


No... On this thread I had miles and price reversed. It's fixed.


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## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

I don't see how this new system is profitable for drivers. I quit depending on RS $. I'm twice retired so I don't depend on Uber and Lyft to make money. 

I got a part time job moving cars around the city for a large Car rental agency 3 days a week.. It's mostly riding in the back of a minivan around 465. After driving for Uber and lyft, comma getting paid to ride to ride is a welcome change.

On my off days if if Uber and lyft have any bonuses, I will drive. But without bonuses, this git's the right share thing is not profitable.

So glad to park my car and let her rest. And my guess is lasting me much much longer because my job is only 3. 2 miles from my house.. 6.8 miles round trip. So glad to take a break.


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> How many crashes are these flash 5 second pings gonna cause?


You can pretty much guarantee a lot more than the pay cut is going to make them.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

It’s why most out of town trips are done under the table here. Atl, charlotte and Charleston most of the riders will pay the full price to the driver in cash


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 643876
> 
> 
> Now it looks decent until you realize the fact you still need to get back.
> ...


Here we have a lot more to contend with. 
North I can do 70 mph
Every other direction I may avg 45. 
On uber support on Twitter reading the posts from the Middle East it’s hilarious
Seems every driver accepts the trip and sits- texts where are you going 
Then starts a negotiation 😆 without moving


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Buckiemohawk said:


> It’s why most out of town trips are done under the table here. Atl, charlotte and Charleston most of the riders will pay the full price to the driver in cash


Who pays for the $5 cancellation fee?


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## Go Uber or Go Home (Jul 13, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> For those who have been in this game for a while, should probably know what your per mile expenses is by now for last year. If you do this will be the quickest and most simplified way to make sure you're not losing money.
> 
> View attachment 643863
> 
> ...


This is pretty misinforming... well to be fair these numbers are just for base fare, still misinforming... and no real logical human being would drive just regular base fare unless you REALLY needed the money. And if you do, i hope you have a $4000 Prius beater so actually your average operation cost is more like $0.03 per mile. $.35 is if you have a higher end 2018 car, no? 

ANYWAYS... Lets say you drive like a smart Ant and say you are doing a 30ride for $120 quest, thats $4, so we're at $17.86. What about a surge perhaps? lets say $3 for fun, $20.86. Lets sayyyyy consecutive trip bonus? $15 for 3? thats an extra $5, so $25.86. Whattttt about tips? boost? etc? You're looking at closer to $30 for this ride. Also that pick up distance is a instant decline for me lol.

I drive smart not hard. These numbers are based off of my trips, experiences, and market so to each their own i guess...


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## Ludy (Nov 9, 2021)

This new system is worse than I thought. Spent 2 hours declining trips yesterday


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## johnfraser1 (Dec 11, 2021)

W00dbutcher said:


> Who pays for the $5 cancellation fee?


When I'm offered cash to drive for someone, I decline it. The reason is that if I accept money directly from someone whom I'm transporting, my liability insurance will not work if they get injured. At least that is my understanding. What do you think?


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Never drive for cash. The person will tell on you if they are injured in an accident.


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## johnfraser1 (Dec 11, 2021)

Ted Fink said:


> Never drive for cash. The person will tell on you if they are injured in an accident.


Thanks!


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

@W00dbutcher I've been thinking about this... and what we all need is an easy way to quickly determine if the ping is worth our time. Some things are obvious (like super far away pickups) but short of that some drivers may struggle to evaluate this ping in 5 seconds if they are trying to think in terms of per minute AND per mile rates.

What I personally do, is look at the total miles only. Miles to pickup plus miles of trip. Add them together. Divide fare by total miles. If greater than $1.00/mile I take it. If not, I decline. 

You could do the same thing with the minutes if you wanted (but don't do both). Take minutes to pickup plus minutes of trip. Add them together. Divide fare by total minutes. If greater than, say 50c a minute, take it, if not, decline.

For all drivers - your desired minimum per mile or per minute will vary depending on how much it costs to drive YOUR vehicle and how busy your market is, etc. I used $1/mile because that's my personal target.

Good luck everyone. Those of us who are savvy will adjust.


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## Ludy (Nov 9, 2021)

Ted Fink said:


> @W00dbutcher I've been thinking about this... and what we all need is an easy way to quickly determine if the ping is worth our time. Some things are obvious (like super far away pickups) but short of that some drivers may struggle to evaluate this ping in 5 seconds if they are trying to think in terms of per minute AND per mile rates.
> 
> What I personally do, is look at the total miles only. Miles to pickup plus miles of trip. Add them together. Divide fare by total miles. If greater than $1.00/mile I take it. If not, I decline.
> 
> ...


yeah I posted earlier and none are ordered no where near that, and this was during a snow storm


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Ludy said:


> yeah I posted earlier and none are ordered no where near that, and this was during a snow storm


I'm assuming you mean that you can't get pings that are > $1/mile or > 50c/minute?

If so, you may be correct. Depends on market, local rates, and your costs.

In some markets 50c a mile might be good. In which case hope your cost per mile are low.

If the math doesn't work, don't do it. If everyone did this, Uber would have to make the math work. Or die.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Ted Fink said:


> Never drive for cash. The person will tell on you if they are injured in an accident.


I agree that driving for cash is very risky which is why I've never done it.

I'll also say that any pax who rats out the driver after an accident is a fool because if the insurance company rejects the claim, the pax will probably end up with nothing.


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## mrwhts (May 16, 2021)

Ludy said:


> This new system is worse than I thought. Spent 2 hours declining trips yesterday


Because drivers are quitting so fast.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> For those who have been in this game for a while, should probably know what your per mile expenses is by now for last year. If you do this will be the quickest and most simplified way to make sure you're not losing money.
> 
> View attachment 643863
> 
> ...


Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but Dara will do everything he can to prevent this system from benefitting the drivers. And he can do a lot.

This is why he included a black box pay model with this system. It's purpose is to allow Uber to continuously lower driver pay and hopefully keep the drivers from knowing it's being cut.

It's also designed to encourage drivers to "bid" against each other driving pay rates even lower.

And in the unlikely event that drivers are able to overcome all of the above obstacles, Dara will attach AR requirements to prevent drivers from cherry-picking. He's done it before and he'll do it again.

This is probably Uber's introduction "honeymoon" period where the goal is to get drivers to accept this new system, so the offers (as bad as they are) are probably better than what they'll be down the road.

Anytime people think these companies can't possibly get any lower they find a way to outdo themselves.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Ted Fink said:


> @W00dbutcher I've been thinking about this... and what we all need is an easy way to quickly determine if the ping is worth our time. Some things are obvious (like super far away pickups) but short of that some drivers may struggle to evaluate this ping in 5 seconds if they are trying to think in terms of per minute AND per mile rates.
> 
> What I personally do, is look at the total miles only. Miles to pickup plus miles of trip. Add them together. Divide fare by total miles. If greater than $1.00/mile I take it. If not, I decline.
> 
> ...


This is exactly my algorithm for Uber Eats, with those pings I have enough time to do both mileage and time. I'll have to sharpen my math skills just a tad to be able to do it for both on a ride ping. 

I'm going to play with this this weekend while the incentives are good but it looks like what will work best for me is only short close trips while there is incentives and surge, nothing any other time. I'm resigned to driving a lot less because during nonpeak hours it's a huge wage cut in my area. I don't even want to start on the radar crap, that's just a lot of accidents waiting to happen.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Go Uber or Go Home said:


> This is pretty misinforming... well to be fair these numbers are just for base fare, still misinforming... and no real logical human being would drive just regular base fare unless you REALLY needed the money. And if you do, i hope you have a $4000 Prius beater so actually your average operation cost is more like $0.03 per mile. $.35 is if you have a higher end 2018 car, no?
> 
> ANYWAYS... Lets say you drive like a smart Ant and say you are doing a 30ride for $120 quest, thats $4, so we're at $17.86. What about a surge perhaps? lets say $3 for fun, $20.86. Lets sayyyyy consecutive trip bonus? $15 for 3? thats an extra $5, so $25.86. Whattttt about tips? boost? etc? You're looking at closer to $30 for this ride. Also that pick up distance is a instant decline for me lol.
> 
> I drive smart not hard. These numbers are based off of my trips, experiences, and market so to each their own i guess...


Completely wrong on the 30.00 estimate..... Just wait.

What you described is a white buffalo...a unicorn with rainbow fur.


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## Go Uber or Go Home (Jul 13, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Completely wrong on the 30.00 estimate..... Just wait.
> 
> What you described is a white buffalo...a unicorn with rainbow fur.


yea for now it is, which means you dont drive. I had it for 11weekends straight in sep-dec 2011. i have 0 trips in 2022 because theres nothing. On the flip side, im going to contradict myself real quick and say im all for hustling and muscling just straight up base fare. $100 is $100 idc if its in 3hrs or 10hrs. But in my situation i do kind of care so... yeah, no drive 4 me.

But those long pickups, you seem to always get those - i hope thats not the norm for you. if it is, that sucks


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> This is exactly my algorithm for Uber Eats, with those pings I have enough time to do both mileage and time. I'll have to sharpen my math skills just a tad to be able to do it for both on a ride ping.
> 
> I'm going to play with this this weekend while the incentives are good but it looks like what will work best for me is only short close trips while there is incentives and surge, nothing any other time. I'm resigned to driving a lot less because during nonpeak hours it's a huge wage cut in my area. I don't even want to start on the radar crap, that's just a lot of accidents waiting to happen.


The Eats ping lasts for 15 seconds. This new one lasts only 5 seconds.

On every screenshot I've seen of this new system the maps only show the pickup route, there's no destination on the map. Do the maps in your market include the destinations?

A map that excludes destinations is for all intents and purposes useless.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

W00dbutcher said:


> Who pays for the $5 cancellation fee?


You have them turn off the phone, you cancel no charge


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Got a $3.50/hr and 1% pay raise at my real jerb, hence, Screwber can screwber off, as long as Gryft is still paying regular, I'll give them the occasional shift to get the tax break, otherwise, I'll stay home more


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## whatyoutalkinboutwillis (Jul 29, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> For those who have been in this game for a while, should probably know what your per mile expenses is by now for last year. If you do this will be the quickest and most simplified way to make sure you're not losing money.
> 
> View attachment 643863
> 
> ...


You don't have to do all that math. If it takes longer to get to the trip than to complete the trip, then don't do it. 8.7 is higher than 7.01, the trip is upside down and a money loser. Then you factor in the 4.87 score of the PAX and well....decisions, decisions.


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## NotMe (Sep 5, 2017)

Ted Fink said:


> Never drive for cash. The person will tell on you if they are injured in an accident.


What if I ask for proof of his words? I think cash is ok with Venmo however there might be problems.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

NotMe said:


> What if I ask for proof of his words? I think cash is ok with Venmo however there might be problems.


If you don't have the proper Insurance, you get in an accident and the passenger gets hurt, the insurance company finds out you charged him money, the insurance company will go after you for everything they can get their hands on.

Most places it's illegal even though they don't press it unless they have to. 

Besides that why risk your personal gain for a couple dollars. Get the proper insurance and certificates if needed in your area to operate as a private cab.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

whatyoutalkinboutwillis said:


> You don't have to do all that math. If it takes longer to get to the trip than to complete the trip, then don't do it. 8.7 is higher than 7.01, the trip is upside down and a money loser. Then you factor in the 4.87 score of the PAX and well....decisions, decisions.


As long as the amount per mile is right the p/u and d/o miles wont matter to me.

Ill drive 9 miles to drop of 2 miles if the amount is the right pay amount per mile. Its common here cause jax is a huge area.

Often times a close pick up pays less then a long pickup per mile.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Example of what I was saying. Both jobs pay roughly $.85 per mile. Both within minutes of each other travel time wise.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Posted these months ago, real time i didnt accept anything. This was after the Jags game around 6 miles away.









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## whatyoutalkinboutwillis (Jul 29, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> Example of what I was saying. Both jobs pay roughly $.85 per mile. Both within minutes of each other travel time wise.


Looking at those two trips, I think I would have accepted trip number 2 if I were to accept any of them. I understand your math, but I'm not going to expend energy and gas driving 6 miles to get anyone who is only (roughly) two miles away from their destination. But then I'm in Houston, so perhaps that's the difference.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> The Eats ping lasts for 15 seconds. This new one lasts only 5 seconds.
> 
> On every screenshot I've seen of this new system the maps only show the pickup route, there's no destination on the map. Do the maps in your market include the destinations?
> 
> A map that excludes destinations is for all intents and purposes useless.


My maps do not include destination. The thing is in my area I have gotten to know a lot of the street names so frequently I know where it is and if it's on the outskirts (or to the arena for a base rate pre game traffic hell. Add to that that the cities or towns are smaller so most anything in Raleigh is going to be no more than 15 or so minutes away, if I'm going to Garner, Knightdale, Holly Springs, etc... I already know I don't want to go. So for me, knowing destination city is a huge help, just say no!!


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

I've started analyzing trip data a few weeks ago. I've know identified what seems to be patterns in the new algorithm.


There is hope in this entire situation. The key is to figuring out the patterns that the algorithm is using to keep you from making money.
It follows a set of rules that have been programmed in by humans. You just have to think like a devious son of a b**** to figure that out.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> I've started analyzing trip data a few weeks ago. I've know identified what seems to be patterns in the new algorithm.
> 
> 
> There is hope in this entire situation. The key is to figuring out the patterns that the algorithm is using to keep you from making money.
> It follows a set of rules that have been programmed in by humans. You just have to think like a devious son of a b**** to figure that out.


Even if you and maybe a few other drivers discover algo patterns only a tiny percentage of drivers will benefit. The other 99% of drivers will get bent over a chair with no lube. 

A huge win for Uber.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

W00dbutcher said:


> until you realize the fact you still need to get back.


Well, what if you just decide to remain in Gainesville?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Well, what if you just decide to remain in Gainesville?


Guess you will need a new toothbrush.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

W00dbutcher said:


> Guess you will need a new toothbrush.


What if you have no teeth?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> What if you have no teeth?


You can use it to scrub your ass from a McDonald's cup....


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

W00dbutcher said:


> You can use it to scrub your ass from a McDonald's cup....


Hmmmm....okay, would you please demonstrate? Thank you!


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Hmmmm....okay, would you please demonstrate? Thank you!


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

W00dbutcher said:


>


I never knew they filmed that in your house!


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> I never knew they filmed that in your house!


Dude I'm trailer trash..... Uber driver... Remember?


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

W00dbutcher said:


> I've started analyzing trip data a few weeks ago. I've know identified what seems to be patterns in the new algorithm.
> 
> 
> There is hope in this entire situation. The key is to figuring out the patterns that the algorithm is using to keep you from making money.
> It follows a set of rules that have been programmed in by humans. You just have to think like a devious son of a b**** to figure that out.


The simplest solution is for drivers to stop driving, Dara, Logan, John and the rest of the morons will figure it out and either raise rates or shutdown, no point in us drivers trying to work around them


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Frontier Guy said:


> The simplest solution is for drivers to stop driving, Dara, Logan, John and the rest of the morons will figure it out and either raise rates or shutdown, no point in us drivers trying to work around them


It be easier to trane a cat to do your taxes.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

W00dbutcher said:


> It be easier to trane a cat to do your taxes.


What if you don't have a cat?


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## Irishjohn831 (Aug 11, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> For those who have been in this game for a while, should probably know what your per mile expenses is by now for last year. If you do this will be the quickest and most simplified way to make sure you're not losing money.
> 
> View attachment 643863
> 
> ...


What about return mileage on longer trips if you don’t catch a fare in the drop off area, also the time factor


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

W00dbutcher said:


> It be easier to trane a cat to do your taxes.


No cat? 

It would be easier to trane your *****es to provide free service on Friday nights.......


A married couple where struggling making ends meet. After a long conversation it was decided that she would sell the only thing of value, Herself, to provide for the couple. 

After the first night she came home and produced $101! 

THe husband was elated! But was puzzled why the $1? 

"they all paid $1."


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

If you use the Driver filter now, and don't accept any rides before you get to the first drop off in your direction, it logs you off and you loose the DF. 

No more multi use of DF while CTB is offered..... So they think! Lmao


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

I went out this morning and did one ride on each platform, yeah, I know, they both suck, but for me, Gryft sucks only slightly less. I refused 6 rides on Screwber before one came across that was acceptable, 6 minutes away, going 19 minutes, paying $12.70, after that I signed off, as it happened when I opened Gryft and went online, I unlocked a $4.50 surge, that then pinged with a ride 8 minutes away going 18 minutes, it paid out $13.15 with the $4.50 surge. After that, I decided it wasn't worth my time and went home. Supposedly we're supposed get a serious snowstorm tonight, so I imagine Gryt surges will grow overnight, then it might be worth it in the morning.


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## lorilynkirchner (11 mo ago)

I know that in the User's upfront pricing system, you can find a loophole for a long time to save yourself some cache. However, this is not earnings but the everyday savings on payment for services or goods. It's better to find a real way to earn extra money not to get tired or strained. I found a great way to earn money with pleasure. I play legit cash games, in which you earn real money instead of stupid game bonuses. This money can then be easily transferred to your bank account and withdrawn from a bank in your city. It's cool and very nice to earn money in games because you play cool or are very experienced in this game.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Ya found the loophole. 
28 to 33 an hour. 

7% acceptance rate to achieve this.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

For me it looks like you go out at 10PM, take a trip that takes you downtown then only accept trips that are nearby taking you a short distance. Repeat until 2:30AM. All of this assumes that there is a surge going on, otherwise go home and chillax. AR used to be in the 60% range, I'm sure I'll be in the 30's soon.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> For me it looks like you go out at 10PM, take a trip that takes you downtown then only accept trips that are nearby taking you a short distance. Repeat until 2:30AM. All of this assumes that there is a surge going on, otherwise go home and chillax. AR used to be in the 60% range, I'm sure I'll be in the 30's soon.


Home before midnight.. 

I shoot for 9:30 to get my goal for the day and play it by ear from there. 

Your technique is almost spot on.


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