# Can I claim lost wages?



## michaeld

I was involved in a very minor accident that was 100% not Uber related - and I was 100% NOT at fault.
I was rear ended at a stop light.
The car repair took about 30 days to complete.
During that 30 days, I had a rental car from the other driver's insurance company. But I could not use that car for Uber driving. 
Can I claim lost wages for the 4+ weeks that I was not working Uber? I typically made about $300 per week,
so a total claim of approximately $1200 gross. 
My insurance company was never alerted to this accident. 
Is it possible that their insurance company will tell my insurance company that I am an Uber driver and risk having my insurance company drop me? My insurance is GEICO and I have been with them for 15+ years with a very clean record - but I seem to see in other threads that GEICO is not very Uber friendly.
Providing pay statements from Uber will be easy to prove my losses based on my average wages over 6 months.
Is the insurance company likely to lower the $1200 by typical expenses - gas/oil/maintenance? Or will they simply pay the gross loss of $1200.
Any advice is much appreciated.
Car is finally fully repaired - looks good and I was back to Ubering this week.

Peace,
michael


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## IndyDriver

Last winter another driver in Indianapolis was in an accident and the at-fault drivers insurance did pay his lost wages. It won't hurt to try...just be careful, Geico will dropping you like a rock if they catch wind.


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## jaxbeachrides

Geico in FL only pays 60% of lost wage claims (if they pay anything at all once you hound them enough), which would be about $720. Or they could simply drop you without paying anything since you engaged in activities that violate their policy.


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## IndyDriver

jaxbeachrides said:


> Geico in FL only pays 60% of lost wage claims (if they pay anything at all once you hound them enough), which would be about $720. Or they could simply drop you without paying anything since you engaged in activities that violate their policy.


The OP stated his personal is Geico. Since he wasn't at fault, I think it's safe to assume the at-fault driver whose insurance would be paying isn't with Geico... or OP wouldn't be asking in the first place.


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## jaxbeachrides

Florida is one of many "no fault" insurance states. Your own personal coverage pays you all claims and then pursues a negotiation with opposing insurance companies for recovery of damages to balance their books. You can't collect anything from someone elses policy without exhausting your own coverages first.


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## IndyDriver

jaxbeachrides said:


> Florida is one of many "no fault" insurance states. Your own personal coverage pays you all claims and then pursues a negotiation with opposing insurance companies for recovery of damages to balance their books. You can't collect anything from someone elses policy without exhausting your own coverages first.


I learned something today. Lived in Indiana my entire life and never heard of such a thing. My bad.

If that's the case then you need to cut your losses unless you want to be dropped.


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## michaeld

While Florida is a no fault state, I still went after the person that hit my car. 
I did not report this to Geico and was not active on Uber during that time.
The other insurance 100% covered rental car and all damage to car.
I am preparing a diminished value claim for lost value to car from a residual viewpoint. 
in Florida, the diminished value must be filed against the other party. in Georgia, I believe, you are allowed to file diminished value with your own insurance company. 
But that is a totally different issue.

My dilemma is should I pursue a claim for lost wages for the 30 days that I was not Ubering. I basically took a loss in income of approximately $1200 during this time, because I was in a rental car and Uber will not allow you to drive in a rental car. This is a real loss. 
However, because this loss is related to what I would have been doing - had the accident not occurred - is the at fault insurance company likely to do something that Geico catches wind of. 
As of now, Geico (my insurance has no knowledge or statements from me) there were no medical damages, hence I did not have to claim anything to Geico.

as far as the no fault, yes, I could have simply filed this under my Geico insurance and then paid deductible and all.
But most folks don't do it that way, unless the other insurance simply won't pay.

Am I risking anything by asking?
If Geico does then find out that I do ride sharing, they can dump me. I have an excellent driving record and will simply move to a more friendly for this type of activity insurance company.

Peace,
Michael


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## jaxbeachrides

The risk is that the other insurance company notifies your insurance company. Maybe they won't, however I'm not sure they will pay it either. Lost wages are not a major concern to the auto insurers.


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## Another Uber Driver

I have been a claims adjuster.

If you have a lawyer, we will argue with him, drag out negotiations, let your lawyer know that we intend to try the case (the last thing that these "trial lawyers" want)--_anything_ to get him to settle the case cheaply. We will require all sorts of documentation from you. We will then ask you to document the documentation and document the documenting of the documentation (those of you who have been audited by the Internal Revenue will understand, here). We will ask for the same documentation two and three times. We will drag it out just to fatigue you into settling cheap. We will chisel the claim and make you an insulting offer.

If you or your lawyer accept, you will sign a full release.

If you try to do this yourself, we will browbeat, delay, obfuscate and obstruct even more. We know that we can wear you down faster than we can wear down most lawyers. Yes, we will tell your insurance company, but we will not take the position of a vengeful tattletale. Marry, Sirrah, we will ask your insurance company for documentation of coverage or premium and we will tell them that you have filed a claim with us and are claiming lost wages from lack of use of the insured vehicle and that we are trying to accumulate information that might be useful toward settling the case. In fact, we might not send this letter to your insurance company immediately, rather we might tell you that we need to contact your insurance company to "verify certain claims". We will do this in hope that you will settle really cheap rather than lose everything after we contact your insurance company as part of a "verification process".

On a twelve hundred dollar lost wage claim, we will usually chew that down to about three hundred dollars. Your lawyer gets one third of that off the top, one hundred dollars. Then he pads his bill (remember, that Contingency Agreement that you signed with him gives him one third of total funds collected *plus expenses)*. Trust me, the lawyer will pad the bill. That will give him another seventy five dollars, at least. Net to client: One hundred twenty five dollars.

We have these cab drivers here who will give their brake pedals a _majorly serious _workout hoping to get you to rear-end them. All that they are doing is helping a lawyer to get rich. What the Retainer Agreement says about one third is misleading. Once the lawyer adds all of his "expenses", he winds up with about seventy five per cent. The doctor gets twenty per cent, the client gets five. This is why you should never lend money to anyone who promises to pay you once his "accident settlement comes through". Likely he has borrowed against this from more than one person. Likely, he will not collect enough even to pay off the first guy.

Uber Black and UberX drivers have taken to this cab driver trick of giving their brake pedals a workout. I got stuck behind such a moron to-day. He had a white Honda Civic with Virginia temporaries that will expire 2 July. Yup, ol' Tesfaye was trying to help _some_ lawyer get rich.


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## InTheD

Lost wages=you are a donkey. Get a grip.


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## Ins Guy

I am constantly amused by postings that state opinion as fact or that their experience is the only way things happen.

*Here is an undisputed fact:* Each State is different in their insurance law and No-Fault States are among us. One needs to check the insurance law in their State to see what your rights are in each particular situation.

I happen to have been a claims adjuster, and am currently a licensed Agent, both in California. That being said, I can only speak for CA. I believe there is a possibility of loss of income, but I could also come up with a hand full of reasons you would loose the argument if you didn't take certain steps. The problem is that you can't just do nothing and cry for money. You have a duty to mitigate your damages and not expect someone to pay you when you could be working.

I would say that Another Uber Driver is stating something that is not all that common in all Insurance Companies. However, a little bit of what was written is true.

Tactics are all based on the Company and Adjuster. I have seen all of those and even used one or two with claimants that I knew were full of crap. From a claims stand point, I would say you should be able to find a car that can be used as a working replacement and the fact that you didn't is on you. Should you have rented a car that could be used for a working replacement (they are out there), it would probably have been a valid claim and I would have been obligated to pay it. Now if I wanted to be completely fair to both of us, I would make you prove your average hours, or working income, for the past 6 to 12 months and use an average to pay you loss of income.

However, the biggest issue adjusters face is attitude and lack of common sense by the public. They threaten to get a lawyer and, to be perfectly honest, is something adjusters hope for when the claimant is a PITA. Lawyers get it and do this for a living. They understand what is necessary and can be required and don't argue if it makes perfect sense. They know the jury awards and what the judgement ranges are so settling the cases are easier. However, they take 25-33% of the take that the person would have gotten anyway. That is where the adjuster innocently smiles. If the bonehead had stopped puffing out their chest and yelling about lawsuits that never happen, they would have gotten paid what they rightfully would be owed.


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## michaeld

Uber does not allow a driver to drive a rental car on their platform. That part is easy. No mitigation possible.
Looking at the last 12 weeks of earnings statements will show on average a $300 per week earning.
But because someone rear ended me, I was not able to mitigate that loss by Ubering with the rental car that the other insurance policy properly provided. Uber , again does not allow rentals on their platform. No car = no income for 4 weeks.
As far as other mitigation, I called and emailed and documented attempts to get my car fixed and repaired and returned to me ASAP. I did not delay anything. I am not looking for undue enrichment, simply to be made whole. 
There are definitely worse accidents out there were people get hurt or die. That is not the case here. 
But my earnings also suffered due to no fault of my own.
They have paid for everything else, how is the best way to get them to pay for lost wages?
And again- if they rat my Uber activities to Geico and Geico dumps me, then I will easily take by insurance business elsewhere. Warren Buffett does not need my money. 
Fairly easy to comply with anything that claims will need. I believe that I am going to pursue the entire $1200 lost wages.
I'll update any insurance stances and outcomes.
I will also do this on my own. The claim is nothing that an attorney would give me full attention to 

Thanks to all for the advice.

Peace,
Michael


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## Ins Guy

If you had no way to legitimately work due to the loss of use of the car, I would agree that the claim should be submitted for review. However, Uber has a situation on their hands and the Adjuster would be wise to take this position. It would appear that Uber is actually the one limiting your income stream. Because of the fact that they restrict your ability to work due to what you can drive, Uber is actually partially responsible. For example, if I rent a car as a result of a loss, I can still drive to my brick and mortar job, do my outside calls, do my shopping, etc. However, Uber is telling you that you can work. What if your car breaks down and the parts are a week away from delivery to repair? Now the Adjuster might not think of this reality, but it's possible.

The best reply to that argument is simply that it's a condition of your work and you can't get around it. If your car broke down, that would be on you since it is your job to maintain it. It isn't a suitable defense to their argument, but it will make the Adjuster take pause and give you room for negotiation.

As for Geico, they may just drop you. However, depending on your State, there are others that will insure you.


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## ATLrider

what happened?


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## pizza guy

Reading this makes me happy my state has reasonably affordable rates for proper Uber insurance coverage. Once enough people cancel their current coverage and switch to rideshare coverage rates will come down even more. This thread would be very different without the threat of being dropped by the insurer for making a legitimate claim.


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## Ins Guy

pizza guy said:


> Reading this makes me happy my state has reasonably affordable rates for proper Uber insurance coverage. Once enough people cancel their current coverage and switch to rideshare coverage rates will come down even more. This thread would be very different without the threat of being dropped by the insurer for making a legitimate claim.


You know, I just don't think I agree with you on that. The number of "rideshare" drivers is not growing to a number so large that the Carriers are worried about it. Besides, the fraud that they are seeing on the existing claims is unbelievable and the problem is getting worse.

Personally, I suspect that the Carriers will simply abandon the current rate system with rideshare issues and just let the rideshare carriers absorb the losses. They know what everyone else already knows...the name rideshare simply is a new generation term for Taxi. And the losses show a frequency table that makes the risk(s) MUCH larger than they want to take on. Remember, they public only sees and hears what the media wants to show them...what Courtney Kardashian looks like in a bikini after having kids, What Hilary's server had on it, etc. They don't talk about insurance claims or fraud unless it is leaked to them or a huge story. The day to day claims that make up the bulk of the issues are never talked about or reported on. Being on this side of the fence, I can tell you...It's not pretty here in CA.

The only way to solve this is with no fault insurance. Personal rates and Commercial rates...done! However, tell someone in CA that you can't sue someone for scratch on their bumper and they act as if the ACLU needs to get involved and the sky is falling.


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## JimS

If Uber is your full time job, you should probably be fully vested in commercial liability coverage. You should also be paying for workman's compensation and unemployment insurance.

Uber doesn't work well for full timers unless you're in it 100% lock, stock and two smoking barrels. I use Uber to offset the taxes from my real job.


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## Ins Guy

Good point Jim...sort of. You really don't need Workman's Comp. if your Commercial package is written correctly. Also, it may be difficult to buy unemployment insurance using Uber's business model since you pick when you work. However, your point about insuring yourself correctly is a good one. Trying to get the personal policies out there to fit for a commercial venture is NEVER a good idea as that is why Comml. insurance exists.

By the way, in CA, Mercury is keeping drivers who disclose their rideshare driving...they just exclude coverage when the app is on.


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## JimS

Ins Guy said:


> By the way, in CA, Mercury is _*not*_ keeping drivers who disclose their rideshare driving...they just exclude coverage when the app is on.


They *are *or _*aren't*_ keeping drivers who disclose?


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## Ins Guy

The ARE keeping policy holders.


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## JimS

Got it. Thanks!


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## LyftMurph

Updates?


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## mactube

What if its determined , that you are at fault or early at fault, would the James Rivers / Uber pay your own lost wages ?


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## lvesq1906

Silly that OP would create this thread and not come back and update on resolution. Asking members for help and then being unhelpful by not updating. 

I’m in California right now and dealing with same issue. Was hit by a driver insured by Geico. Car will take 3 weeks to be repaired. Geico has paid everything so far and I will be pursuing lost wages and diminished value of my BMW. And I make more than $300 per week from Uber. I will submit a claim for $1600-$2000 per week with historical proof of my earnings...


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## mactube

sorry haven't been back here... 
Unfortunately I found out that James Rivers does not pay for lost wages !


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## Whisena

Ya, I am handling a car accident right now which happened last friday, I asked the James River adjuster and they told me James River does not handle lost wage. We have to pursure lost wage with the other party's insurance.


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## Ceylo

Another Uber Driver said:


> I have been a claims adjuster.
> 
> If you have a lawyer, we will argue with him, drag out negotiations, let your lawyer know that we intend to try the case (the last thing that these "trial lawyers" want)--_anything_ to get him to settle the case cheaply. We will require all sorts of documentation from you. We will then ask you to document the documentation and document the documenting of the documentation (those of you who have been audited by the Internal Revenue will understand, here). We will ask for the same documentation two and three times. We will drag it out just to fatigue you into settling cheap. We will chisel the claim and make you an insulting offer.
> 
> If you or your lawyer accept, you will sign a full release.
> 
> If you try to do this yourself, we will browbeat, delay, obfuscate and obstruct even more. We know that we can wear you down faster than we can wear down most lawyers. Yes, we will tell your insurance company, but we will not take the position of a vengeful tattletale. Marry, Sirrah, we will ask your insurance company for documentation of coverage or premium and we will tell them that you have filed a claim with us and are claiming lost wages from lack of use of the insured vehicle and that we are trying to accumulate information that might be useful toward settling the case. In fact, we might not send this letter to your insurance company immediately, rather we might tell you that we need to contact your insurance company to "verify certain claims". We will do this in hope that you will settle really cheap rather than lose everything after we contact your insurance company as part of a "verification process".
> 
> On a twelve hundred dollar lost wage claim, we will usually chew that down to about three hundred dollars. Your lawyer gets one third of that off the top, one hundred dollars. Then he pads his bill (remember, that Contingency Agreement that you signed with him gives him one third of total funds collected *plus expenses)*. Trust me, the lawyer will pad the bill. That will give him another seventy five dollars, at least. Net to client: One hundred twenty five dollars.
> 
> We have these cab drivers here who will give their brake pedals a _majorly serious _workout hoping to get you to rear-end them. All that they are doing is helping a lawyer to get rich. What the Retainer Agreement says about one third is misleading. Once the lawyer adds all of his "expenses", he winds up with about seventy five per cent. The doctor gets twenty per cent, the client gets five. This is why you should never lend money to anyone who promises to pay you once his "accident settlement comes through". Likely he has borrowed against this from more than one person. Likely, he will not collect enough even to pay off the first guy.
> 
> Uber Black and UberX drivers have taken to this cab driver trick of giving their brake pedals a workout. I got stuck behind such a moron to-day. He had a white Honda Civic with Virginia temporaries that will expire 2 July. Yup, ol' Tesfaye was trying to help _some_ lawyer get rich.


As an adjuster you are not good at your job. You can even be accused of maliciously denying a claim of someone. Lol


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

At the end of the day....

The insurance carriers could be the ones that kill ridesharing.

The risk is much much higher than a normal driver and the fraud has to be piling up.


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