# Manipulating the Surge



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

A lot of drivers promote the idea that by encouraging drivers to stay offline until a surge appears is a way to influence the creation of a Surge period.

Fair enough - in theory it should work.
The reality is that as soon as a surge appears and all of those drivers go online,
the surge will disapper (becuase the supply has increased to meet the demand).

If the 'stay off app' strategy to effect a surge works for drivers,
then by logic (and in the real world) it also works for riders,
who, when they see surge in effect, learn very quickly to just go 'off app'
(reducing demand - which kills the surge) and try again a few minutes later.

So here's my question:
Why do those that promote this kind of manipulation
(and I don't mean that in a negative/perjorative way)
seem to think that drivers are so much more 'clever' than riders?


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

You are 100% correct sir! It would only really work if drivers worked together, each taking a turn to go online
..


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

I always log off when I see surge. I can wait two minutes.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> You are 100% correct sir! It would only really work if drivers worked together, each taking a turn to go online
> ..


Thanks - but don't forget the second part... Riders do not even have to 'work together'. After getting burned with an unexpected surge fare, they ("we" - I'm a rider, too) learn very quickly to just log-off and try again in a few minutes.


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## Kruhn (Sep 24, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Thanks - but don't forget the second part... Riders do not even have to 'work together'. After getting burned with an unexpected surge fare, they ("we" - I'm a rider, too) learn very quickly to just log-off and try again in a few minutes.


Not even that, the app itself will tell you when the surge drops.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

My experience in this business dictates that the time that you waste manipulating and chasing surges is better spent picking up whatever it is that is close to you and hauling it where it is going. To be sure, I will not allow the thing to run me great distances, but, if I can get there in five minutes or less, I simply accept the ping. In the forty five minutes that I could spend manipulating and chasing a 1,2 surge on whatever trip, I can run three short ones. I can run two more by the time Mr, Surge Boy runs his 1,2. I can run four or five trips in the time that Mr. Surge Boy runs his one 1,2.


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> A lot of drivers promote the idea that by encouraging drivers to stay offline until a surge appears is a way to influence the creation of a Surge period.
> 
> Fair enough - in theory it should work.
> The reality is that as soon as a surge appears and all of those drivers go online,
> ...


riders don't dictate how much they can get a ride for. they can wait all they want. i just got my surge trip while they are waiting. and when i'm done and it's no longer surging i will go offline again. you know why? because i dictate how much i will drive my car for. not the rider.


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> My experience in this business dictates that the time that you waste manipulating and chasing surges is better spent picking up whatever it is that is close to you and hauling it where it is going. To be sure, I will not allow the thing to run me great distances, but, if I can get there in five minutes or less, I simply accept the ping. In the forty five minutes that I could spend manipulating and chasing a 1,2 surge on whatever trip, I can run three short ones. I can run two more by the time Mr, Surge Boy runs his 1,2. I can run four or five trips in the time that Mr. Surge Boy runs his one 1,2.


you run your lyft app while you wait on uber to surge


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## ATL2SD (Aug 16, 2015)

jrboy said:


> you run your lyft app while you wait on uber to surge


Yup! This is my new strategy.


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

Isn't surge predicted by how many people have the rider app open in an area?

If so, create a program, use a GPS for pc, run it on a virtual machine x amount of times and simulate many riders having the app open.

Just a theory. Dunno if it would work. Lol

What I do try to is turning off my GPS on my device and then turn on airplane mode then move to an area and wait. ( so Uber can't see I'm on the road) then turn it all back on and se what happens.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

jrboy said:


> you run your lyft app while you wait on uber to surge


I do not have Lyft. I really do not want to fist-bump passengers and greet them with:

"How's it going, Mattmeister?" or "Whassup, Debster?".

I can go work for Southwest Airlines if I want to be corny.

I will pass over having some amateur tell me how to haul passengers.


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

if


SECOTIME said:


> Isn't surge predicted by how many people have the rider app open in an area?
> 
> If so, create a program, use a GPS for pc, run it on a virtual machine x amount of times and simulate many riders having the app open.
> 
> ...


 this is true then wouldn't it be effective if we as drivers all turn on our rider app?


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

jrboy said:


> if
> 
> this is true then wouldn't it be effective if we as drivers all turn on our rider app?


Well it depends on how many drivers do it and how many pax it takes to set off the trigger. Idk


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I do not have Lyft. I really do not want to fist-bump passengers and greet them with:
> 
> "How's it going, Mattmeister?" or "Whassup, Debster?".
> 
> ...


well on lyft you don't have to wait for surge. you can take regular trips and make tips. i'll say "whassup debster?" for a $5 tip. why not? you probably already kiss pax ass anyway on uber. do you open doors? give water? gum, mints, chargers, help with luggage? midas well get tips if we're gonna be corny.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

jrboy said:


> you probably already kiss pax ass anyway on uber. do you open doors? give water? gum, mints, chargers, help with luggage?.


I do not kiss the posterior. I do not define opening the door for a passenger with her hands full as "performing osculation on the gluteus maximus"* Long force of habit has my opening the trunk for a passenger with a suitcase or who wants to put something into it. It is called "basic customer service", not kissing posterior. I used to have water and candy in the UberXmobile, but no one ever wanted it. Funny, I do have some gum in the taxi. A passenger asked for a piece the other day. That Uber Taxi user was the first Uber passenger on any level of Uber that ever had asked for candy or gum. I gave her the gum. I have a few different kinds of chargers for the various telephones that I have or have had, but I do not have every kind of charger. If the customer can use one of mine, grand. If not, *sor-*rayyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

We do get tips on Uber Taxi. I drive UberX only a little more than enough to stay in the game.

* A related item---Back about 1970, 1971, or so, when asked about what was then called "Women's Liberation", Joan Baez replied: "When I am going on stage with my baby in one arm and my guitar in the other hand, I'm not going to yell at some guy for holding the door for me." What Ol' Joan was talking about was, and still is, called "common courtesy". If I see someone's approaching either the cab or UberX mobile who has her hands full, I get out, open the door and ask if she needs the trunk---common courtesy/basic customer service.


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I do not kiss the posterior. I do not define opening the door for a passenger with her hands full as "performing osculation on the gluteus maximus"* Long force of habit has my opening the trunk for a passenger with a suitcase or who wants to put something into it. It is called "basic customer service", not kissing posterior. I used to have water and candy in the UberXmobile, but no one ever wanted it. Funny, I do have some gum in the taxi. A passenger asked for a piece the other day. That Uber Taxi user was the first Uber passenger on any level of Uber that ever had asked for candy or gum. I gave her the gum. I have a few different kinds of chargers for the various telephones that I have or have had, but I do not have every kind of charger. If the customer can use one of mine, grand. If not, *sor-*rayyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
> 
> We do get tips on Uber Taxi. I drive UberX only a little more than enough to stay in the game.
> 
> * A related item---Back about 1970, 1971, or so, when asked about what was then called "Women's Liberation", Joan Baez replied: "When I am going on stage with my baby in one arm and my guitar in the other hand, I'm not going to yell at some guy for holding the door for me." What Ol' Joan was talking about was, and still is, called "common courtesy". If I see someone's approaching either the cab or UberX mobile who has her hands full, I get out, open the door and ask if she needs the trunk---common courtesy/basic customer service.


right. that's what i thought. but uber says this is not a service. no tipping. just get pax home safe. so on uber you have to create your own tip (surge). but on lyft we get tips. i do provide service on lyft. sometimes they tip sometimes they don't but it is a service. that's why pax are nicer and grateful.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Kruhn said:


> Not even that, the app itself will tell you when the surge drops.


true dat


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

jrboy said:


> riders don't dictate how much they can get a ride for. they can wait all they want. i just got my surge trip while they are waiting. and when i'm done and it's no longer surging i will go offline again. you know why? because i dictate how much i will drive my car for. not the rider.


I am a rider - and damn well DO dictate how much if anything above the non-surge rate I am willing to pay. So you go ahead and limit yourself only to riders who are willing or unknowingly paying surge rates - and riders will limit themselves only to drivers available to drive during non-surge rates. Everyone gets to make their own choice.


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Baby steps, yes... As Uber's rates keep falling, eventually the supply of drivers might taper off. With rates aproaching the cost of expences perhaps supply and demand might eventually work? 

There is a difference between the GREED of wanting to be paid fairly for working for a living and taking advantage of customers. I am leaning on the former.


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I am a rider - and damn well DO dictate how much if anything above the non-surge rate I am willing to pay. So you go ahead and limit yourself only to riders who are willing or unknowingly paying surge rates - and riders will limit themselves only to drivers available to drive during non-surge rates. Everyone gets to make their own choice.


everyone listen to what this rider has to say... he's looking for drivers wherein he can dictate to pay you the going rate. i'm sure he'll find some. a lot of newbies out there.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

jrboy said:


> everyone listen to what this rider has to say... he's looking for drivers wherein he can dictate to pay you the going rate. i'm sure he'll find some. a lot of newbies out there.


has nothing to do with dictating what a driver will charge - it has to do with dictating what I am willing to pay. Just as drivers get to 'dictate' what they are willing to accept as a fare. BOTH driver's and riders make that choice. No one is forcing either to do anything. A driver can 'pass' on a ride request - and a rider can 'pass' on the rate offered.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

jrboy said:


> everyone listen to what this rider has to say... he's looking for drivers wherein he can dictate to pay you the going rate. i'm sure he'll find some. a lot of newbies out there.


That's what happens at 2am when the drivers are waiting for surge to go up and the riders are waiting for it to go down. Everyone wanting to be on their way but waiting for someone to blink.

Seems a silly way to run a business. It also makes for more congestion as the drivers pile up in the streets and the riders pile up outside the bars. And no matter what 90% are unhappy because the driver always wonders if they could have got a higher price and the pax the opposite.

If the price was higher say 1:45 to 2:45 and was set this game wouldn't be played. Same reason the price should be higher overall at night. If the rates were reasonable all the time and set higher at specific times known to have more difficult pax (drunks) drivers would still work those hours to make the extra money but everyone woukd be happier. The pax would have the option of leaving earlier and not blame it on the driver.


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> has nothing to do with dictating what a driver will charge - it has to do with dictating what I am willing to pay. Just as drivers get to 'dictate' what they are willing to accept as a fare. BOTH driver's and riders make that choice. No one is forcing either to do anything. A driver can 'pass' on a ride request - and a rider can 'pass' on the rate offered.


thats all i'm saying. just because riders pass on the surge and wait for surge to end, in the same way when surge ends we can go offline and riders can wait longer if they'd like. or they can always choose lyft. you're right they do have options.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

jrboy said:


> thats all i'm saying. just because riders pass on the surge and wait for surge to end, in the same way when surge ends we can go offline and riders can wait longer if they'd like. or they can always choose lyft. you're right they do have options.


POST # 23/jrboy: Apologies...first....to
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