# I got in an accident on Uber x with Passangers



## Uber ATL (Jun 13, 2014)

Deleted.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

I wondered how the iphone from the other thread fit in the story. Now it makes sense.

Ultimately, I don't see how UberX and Lyft can keep going without at least the primary insurance coverage problem resolved. Basically they are profiting to a large degree by shifting the expense of the driving risk to individual insurance policies. I can't see this going on for too long. The drivers aren't compensated anywhere near enough for this. And insurance companies will wise up as well.

You are out $2k now, luckily not more - and you had GAP. And fortunately nobody was hurt. If you net anything like I do per hour, that represents a lot of work you did driving net of expenses. If you net $10, that's 200 hours of work net earnings wiped out - about a month of full time driving.

I have no doubt it's just a matter of time until everyone gets in an accident like this or worse. I see a close call to some degree about once every 3,000 miles I drive for ridesharing (a few weeks), especially in crowded downtown areas. In normal personal driving, I would only see that happen maybe once a year.

Your decision to go commercial is probably a good one. I'm noticing there are almost no stories of drivers remaining on the non commercial platforms after their first involvement in an accident - either by choice, loss of personal insurance, or some other reason.


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## Uber ATL (Jun 13, 2014)

It is imperative that drivers understand the risk. I myself balked at the people asking about insurance. But when you get into an accident that is when it matters. I'm lucky it wasn't my fault. Also, yes that is why I am so adamant about the phone returning thing because this is the chain of event that caused the accident. Although, it was meant to be had I not took this guys phone back and simply requested a neutral pick up spot. I would have never been near the people that requested to go to that particular hangout. Chain of events is everything and one thing done can change the course of your life forever. Commercial insurance is a must and is not that expensive here in GA. 240/mo for a brand new SUV is a steal. Geico was trying to charge me $400 for my Uber x car.(crooks) Its better to be safe than sorry. I shutter to think had I had some jerks as passengers how much worse this situation could have turned out.


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

Anybody have a good way for shopping for commercial insurance anonymously?

To be honest, I would be up for paying more for proper insurance. Just a matter of how much since I am quite part time.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

LookyLou said:


> Anybody have a good way for shopping for commercial insurance anonymously?
> 
> To be honest, I would be up for paying more for proper insurance. Just a matter of how much since I am quite part time.


This is where a Pro-Rata charged product should be offered by an insurance company, with the verification from Uber that the driver does only log on for a casual shift here and there


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

LookyLou said:


> Anybody have a good way for shopping for commercial insurance anonymously?
> 
> To be honest, I would be up for paying more for proper insurance. Just a matter of how much since I am quite part time.


I'm with you. It seems to me that there is much afoot w/ various cities & states re this hole boondogle so a little patience may be in order. Until then I suggest you drive as I once did in Bangkok: as though every single person on/in a motor vehicle was trying to kill you! Extreme caution and exercise your peripheral vision.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

The Geek said:


> I'm with you. It seems to me that there is much afoot w/ various cities & states re this hole boondogle so a little patience may be in order. Until then I suggest you drive as I once did in Bangkok: as though every single person on/in a motor vehicle was trying to kill you! Extreme caution and exercise your peripheral vision.


"Activate force fields Will Robinson!"


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Great insurance fraud story ATL! Thanks for raising the rates for the rest of us with personal insurance. Glad Uber can count on drivers with no ethical backbone to keep the liability off of them.


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> Great insurance fraud story ATL! Thanks for raising the rates for the rest of us with personal insurance. Glad Uber can count on drivers with no ethical backbone to keep the liability off of them.


Nice to see you back Justin. How are you doing?


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

Uber ATL said:


> Since then I have decided to go Uber Black, get commercial insurance, and make it a legitimate business. I purchased a 2015 Chevy Suburban and now am fully covered for business. Be careful out there being an Uberx driver.


Lucky that you had that option. Many of us aren't so lucky to be in cities where Uber is accepting new Black/SUV.


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## Django (May 5, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> Great insurance fraud story ATL! Thanks for raising the rates for the rest of us with personal insurance. Glad Uber can count on drivers with no ethical backbone to keep the liability off of them.


Do you drive UberX? Do you have a commercial insurance policy?


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Django said:


> Do you drive UberX? Do you have a commercial insurance policy?


So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that drives for UberX and has commercial insurance among you, let him cast the first stone. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one.

When he had lifted up himself, and saw none but the driver, he said unto him, Driver, where are those thine accusers? Hath no man condemned thee?


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## Jeeves (Apr 10, 2014)

Thats unfortunate you deleted your post Uber ATL. Thanks for sharing with us. I'm not sure that I see the difference between one insurance company or another in terms of raising "the peoples" premiums. Accident is an accident and luckily some insurance covered some of it! And more important luckily everyone was ok.


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> Great insurance fraud story ATL! Thanks for raising the rates for the rest of us with personal insurance. Glad Uber can count on drivers with no ethical backbone to keep the liability off of them.


Alas, that's not him; ass-hat/micro-mohawk I mean. There is another I'm watching though so we may not be out of the woods yet...


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Jeeves said:


> Thats unfortunate you deleted your post Uber ATL. Thanks for sharing with us. I'm not sure that I see the difference between one insurance company or another in terms of raising "the peoples" premiums. Accident is an accident and luckily some insurance covered some of it! And more important luckily everyone was ok.


Jeeves you do not see the difference? Are you in the US? Maybe different in other parts of the world. In the US anyway premiums are based on risk of the pool of drivers. Because of that many of the higher risk activities have been separated out of certain pools to keep the premiums low for the rest of the pool. So people making money with their vehicles have been segregated into a "commercial" pool. They pay 7-10 times the amount in premiums because they are out driving the street about 10-15 times more than the average person. They get into 10-15 times more accidents. But thats fine it works out because they pay so much more.

Now how would you feel if you got a bill for your insurance that said we are charging you $400 extra per year because these trash trucks keep getting into accidents and we have to spread the risk on to all members to pay for the trash trucks causing so much damage. Would you not say like most people: Let the companies making money on the trash trucks pay for those accidents.

And Thus the main business strategy of Uber. Take their business risk and spread it onto the driver and thus everyone in the personal insurance pool. I am in the personal insurance pool, I do not want to subsidies you making money with your vehicle. I do not use Uber, I do not care to pay for their accidents. Let them pay for their own with the profits they make. Or by insuring themselves with a bunch of other people doing the same risky activity (Taxis and Limos and Shuttles). But I am not doing that risky activity why should I have to pay for it?

I am not sure what percentage market share Uber/Lyft has captured of the Taxi and Limo Industry but lets say 30%. So 30% of the accidents that used to be taken care of in the commercial insurance market are now being paid for out of the personal insurance funds. Someone has to make up that difference. And the commercial insurance sector is not going to say "Oh look at all this money we have left over we will send it to the personal insurance sector". Nope they raise the rates on the personal insurance sector to make up the difference.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Django said:


> Do you drive UberX? Do you have a commercial insurance policy?


No, I do not driver for UberX. Did drive for Uber SUV with commercial insurance as an employee of a company.

I would not driver for UberX on my personal insurance not only because of the ethical breaches it requires but the risk as well. And I do not think this gets talked about enough but all you guys driving for UberX you are your own business. And people say in business you need to take risk. But I think that is interpreted wrong by most people. You do not need to take the risk of losing everything you own if something goes bad. You just have to take on the risk of the business failing. Part of every business is making sure you make enough to have the provisions in place to protect the business owner.

Look at Uber for an Example. They have an insurance policy in place to protect themselves for the actions of their programmers and staff. Copyright infringement, plagiarism, bad code. Anything that can go wrong they are covered from litigation. And you help pay for the risk abatement with your 20% gift to them. That is perfectly good business sense.

That is what businesses do. They abate risk as best they can and set their rates to pay for those measures. And that is where it is backwards with Uber. Uber sets the rates in this case. And sets them at a level where it prohibits you from paying for the risk abatement you as business owners need to do.

So you are stuck with either committing insurance fraud, hoping nothing goes wrong or losing money doing it right. None of those options are ways to run a business.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> No, I do not driver for UberX. Did drive for Uber SUV with commercial insurance as an employee of a company. I would not driver for UberX on my personal insurance not only because of the ethical breaches it requires but the risk as well. ... They abate risk as best they can and set their rates to pay for those measures. And that is where it is backwards with Uber. Uber sets the rates in this case. And sets them at a level where it prohibits you from paying for the risk abatement you as business owners need to do.


Some valid points here. When I look at the big picture, it seems like the current model falls apart if regular commercial insurance were required. Since it is not, the drivers are fodder, sacrificed on the altar after their first accident, resulting in their personal insurance canceled even if they are covered by the supplemental policies. The other option to avoid disclosure of the for hire status is also problematic.

What could be left, is a NYC type properly insured / licensed UberX with substantially higher rates. Most part timers would be weeded out due to the higher fixed overhead. Although some drivers might think theses regulations hurt them, parts of them may actually protect them, especially primary commercial insurance in the drivers name. Some of the government taxi licensing hoops that take 10 steps, 2 months, and $500 to complete however, border on ridiculous.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

grams777 said:


> What could be left, is a NYC type properly insured / licensed UberX with substantially higher rates. Most part timers would be weeded out due to the higher fixed overhead. Although some drivers might think theses regulations hurt them, parts of them may actually protect them, especially primary commercial insurance in the drivers name. Some of the government taxi licensing hoops that take 10 steps and 2 months to complete however, border on ridiculous.


 I'd have no problem with that, it's what I had wanted to do to begin with, but Uber won't accept any new Black/SUV here.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> I'd have no problem with that, it's what I had wanted to do to begin with, but Uber won't accept any new Black/SUV here.


Basically, they should just go commercial insurance required on UberX, give the safe rides fee (insurance) to the driver, and bump the X rates up to about 2/3 of that regions Black rate (similar to NYC). If the service can't survive with that type of model, it doesn't have enough value to consumers to be run as it should and would seem to be doomed in the long term.


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## TheUberDriver05 (Jun 23, 2014)

I hope you're safe guys. Having a good insurance would be very important.


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## Jeeves (Apr 10, 2014)

I am in the US. I think dispersed among the many insurance providers, the number of rideshare drivers making claims with their personal insurance is low relative to all the other crap that goes on with insurance. Someone on the forum said SUV commercial insurance can be had for $250 a month. I don't think that's 7-10 times the premiums. Like the OP said - you're a little heavy on the judging. I don't think what the OP did was an ethical breach. And I don't think what all of the UberX drivers around the world are doing is either. This is uncharted territory. Uber does have a policy that's supposd to cover UberX drivers and their passengers. Let's not forget that. The workings of it.... You could dissect and insurance policy, even commercial, and find its flawed. The business of insurance could be said to be a business of "fraud" really.

Most importantly the OP and his passengers were OK. Let's not jump down each others throats with our opinions.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

Insurance really is a scam. You spend years likely paying for something that you don't use, and then if you do end up using it, they charge you more...


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Jeeves said:


> I don't think what the OP did was an ethical breach. And I don't think what all of the UberX drivers around the world are doing is either. ... Uber does have a policy that's supposed to cover UberX drivers and their passengers. Let's not forget that.


Jeeves if you can't see it you are not being honest with yourself. Here is one way to tell an ethical breach. They hide what they are doing. How many business you know where the main factor of staying in business is that you have to hide the activity you are doing from someone or some organization. And there is a difference between "secrets" and "hiding".

Yes Uber has a wonderful Insurance policy that is supposed to cover passengers and driver in situations just like this. So why was it not used? Uber even called him. They could have said, we will take it from here ATL. But they did not, and they never will as long as they do not have to and are not forced into doing so.

So while OP kind of backed out of this thread the one thing I would ask him is to reclaim his integrity and file the claim where it should be, with Uber. It would actually save him $1K if I remember correctly because Uber has the $1K dollar deductible. But maybe not, that not the reason to do it. The reason to do it is because without your integrity you have nothing. Uber has no integrity but that does not mean drivers need to stoop to their level.

And Jeeves if you can't see it you got blinders on.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Here's what can happen when the claim for a complicated accident with injuries goes through the official process (covers the Herrera case a little).

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/invest...deshares-Mean-At-Your-Own-Risk-264675141.html

Some interesting parts:

"Lawyer Philip Segal says that when his clients were denied by Mercury, they went back to Uber. Its website says that it carries a $1 million liability policy, per incident - something required by the state. It also says the policy acts as primary insurance if the driver's policy doesn't cover - for any reason. But Segal says his clients couldn't get Uber to give out any information about its insurance. That's when Herrera and Kolintzas decided to sue."

----
Also about a prospective driver:

While giving information on his new car to his insurance company, USAA, Booth got into a conversation about his plans to drive for Uber.

"I told them up front that this is what I want to do with the car. I want to drive for Uber," Booth told the I-Team. "And they immediately said this is not something that we will cover. That's a commercial use."

He continued, "And furthermore, if you go ahead and do it anyway, we'll drop you the first time we get a chance."


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## Jeeves (Apr 10, 2014)

I think most drivers on this site are aware; that their personal auto policy doesn't cover them to drive for Uber. I personally think Ubers insurance covers me and my passengers when I'm driving. I don't think Uber's coverage of my driving for them is much different then my personal health insurance, or even the insurance on my cell-phone. It's designed for a profit and getting them to pay often becomes a grey area. 

And it's impossible to live life without breaking someone elses code of ethics.


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## friedguy44 (Jun 28, 2014)

I really don't understand why nobody brings up the fact that UberX drivers are their own business. This is a really important issue we must address. I mean on average we make $450.00 a week minus Uber's 20% =$340. And this is before taxes, gas, and car maintenance. Everybody understands that we do not pay taxes, therefore we have to pay at the end of the year right? Come on guys we need to wake up! Does anybody know how much taxes we are going to owe?


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

friedguy44 said:


> I really don't understand why nobody brings up the fact that UberX drivers are their own business. This is a really important issue we must address. I mean on average we make $450.00 a week minus Uber's 20% =$340. And this is before taxes, gas, and car maintenance. Everybody understands that we do not pay taxes, therefore we have to pay at the end of the year right? Come on guys we need to wake up! Does anybody know how much taxes we are going to owe?


Make sure you keep track of all of your mileage, fuel, and maintenance expenses for those deductions when you file your taxes. Remember that business mileage is an _"above the line deduction"_, meaning that it is subtracted from your gross income before taxes are calculated. Personally I'm averaging over 600 miles a week, and at $0.56 a mile that's over $17,000 a year just for my mileage alone, which remember is subtracted from your income before calculating your taxes.

If you're not keeping records of all of this, you're going to end up paying _a lot_ more than you would have otherwise. If you're going to run a business (which we all are), then you need to do your homework (or hire someone else to do it for you). The vast majority of businesses fail because most people don't really know how to run a business.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

friedguy44 said:


> Come on guys we need to wake up! Does anybody know how much taxes we are going to owe?


Many will probably have a loss. At the IRS rate of 56 cents a mile, that's $1.12 in tax deductions per paid mile assuming you drive two miles for every one you are paid. So, unless you get pinged near every drop off location, or net more income than $1.12 per paid mile, taxes should be nothing. Keep a proper mileage log, and receipts for car washes, water, mints, etc. for records.


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## grUBBER (Sep 11, 2014)

Can you update us on how it ended?


Uber ATL said:


> Deleted.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

State Farm accepts Uber Drivers. I got a quote $86 a month ( for my car, full coverage, state minimum, and driving record ). see my post in News section.


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## kalo (Jun 28, 2014)

Walkersm said:


> Jeeves if you can't see it you are not being honest with yourself.
> And Jeeves if you can't see it you got blinders on.


It's been pretty obvious some of the people here work for Uber or are somehow paid to put this bunk on this forum.


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