# Thinking of starting an effective Uber Drivers' Association.



## CatnipHigh (Sep 23, 2014)

Hello fellow drivers.

I've been giving this idea much thought as of late ( about a month) and wanted to gauge interest of it here on the forums. I'm thinking of starting an effective Uber Drivers association. No, not the ineffective and worthless Teamsters union. I'd like to start something that can substantially help and benefit drivers. I wasn't so sure which section to place this in so I'm placing this in Pay because...well when it comes down to it, its all about the money.

First, a little about myself. I've been driving with UberX in Los Angeles since February of this year. I tend to stay on the West side, for I live on the West side and I know it the best. I do it part time, for I have a full time job in finance. I started driving because I want to earn some extra money to pay for some hefty life expenses I have coming soon (buying house, wedding, ect.) I usually drive anywhere from 20-25 hours a week and before the rate cuts, averaged about $35- $38/hr. Obviously since then, I've fallen to about $25- $28/hr. This does effect me, but I can only imagine how much it effects all you drivers who drive full time. On average, I had a high of about 4.92 and have recently fell to 4.85. I've pretty much stayed there for a while. Why am I stating all of this? To show that I'm no newbie. I've done 1300+ trips and I've consistently contributed weekly.

I have a love/hate relationship with Uber. I like the fact that they are trying to revolutionize transportation (LA traffic sucks balls), and I enjoy meeting people from all walks of life. Towards the beginning of the year, Uber seemed to be a company that cared about helping their drivers make more (weekly summaries, support, ect.) but since then its become obvious they are starting to care less and less about their drivers. (pay cuts, terrible support, ect.). Last straw for me was when they changed the dashboard making it harder for us to see our overage ratings and total revenue per 7/30/365 days. That shows a company that thinks that if their drivers have LESS info to complain about (ratings, earnings,ect) they should, in theory, complain less. A real dick move.

So what's the solution to this? Uber has stated they will not negotiate with any driver unions. The Teamsters have shown that they're largely ineffective, and thats because they're using age old methods to try to deal with a rapidly evolving economy (striking, protesting, *****ing, ovulating, ect.). Socialism will always lose to Capitalism. Period. So my solution is BETTER Capitalism. I think we as drivers need to create our own association. A smart association that uses innovative methods to maximize their member's incomes.

1. Maximizing Driver Income.

I'm going to start with this because money is the end all and be all of this operation. If we as drivers are making more money, we'll be happier. Collective bargaining, psychology, support, ect, can all take a back seat if people aren't bringing in the money they deserve. Rates are largely beyond our control. Uber will change rates dependent on what they're trying to accomplish (right now I feel they're trying to maximize their current portfolio instead of expanding it via marketing. Market share has primarily stayed within its own age demographics and beyond that hasn't increased much). What we can control however, are avenues where we receive money and I think we can do that by diversifying. Here are some ideas I'd like to explore:

a. Directed Destinations: I got this idea when a rider told me that strip clubs pay $15 a head to the cab drivers when they bring in customers. I had this confirmed when I picked up the owner of said strip clubs a few months later. Great, but not everyone wants to go to a strip club. However in my time driving, I've met plenty of riders who ask "where's a good place to eat/get a beer/ listen to live music, ect". I then have directed them to places I like to going to, not making any money from it in the process. So I'd like to explore the option of opening referral contracts with restaurants/bars/lounges/hotels, ect. Obviously, this can be infrequent. I maybe get one customer a night that has an open itinerary in where to go so this will probably be the least used of the ideas.

b. Promotional Marketing: I have a lot of friends who work in promotional marketing. I've done it myself too. Usually when a product wishes to increase market awareness in the field, they pay hot chicks or sales people ($10-$15, ive seen $20/hr.) to hand out free stuff (energy drinks, beauty products, hand electronics, ect.). My experience was pitching the 4k TVs for LG at designated Best Buy locations (I was paid $15/hr.). Now I don't expect drivers to sell TVs or anything involving much talking. However, what I am doing right now is I give away free cans of Red Bull. I know off the top of my head 3 other energy drinks trying to expand more market share that would give away 1. free samples, and 2. pay a field marketing team to hand those drinks out. If the association can open contracts with these products it will provide drivers with free promotional inventory, and an_ additional_ hourly wage.

Other promotional items we could potentially explore could be referral bonuses paid to realtors, financial advisors, personal bankers, ect. This has worked for me for I work in finance. I've successfully referred riders asking me financial advice to FAs, PBs, and CFPs. These can pay well. Real estate/mortgage leads could pay as much as $150 per lead. The problem with this is teaching drivers how to sell, which in and of itself could be a difficult task.

c. Special events/promotions: This is probably the hardest to pull off, but could be the most profitable. Here in Los Angeles, nightclubs are a huge business. Also along with special events, premiers, film festivals, awards shows, ect. If an association can have a contractual agreement between club promoters to ferry their guest, it could pay dividends in the long run. This would involve developing relationships with promoters, PR agencies, and events organizers. However, this is what makes this profitable. Uber has a label right now, and for the most part its a great label. Riders like Uber. It's cheap, its reliable, and its a better experience than cabs. If we can promise that SAME uber experience to the riders, but have them pay the association via flat contracts instead of having them request via the Uber app, we make 100% of the profit and give NONE of it to Uber. We use Uber's legitimacy and leverage it to our advantage. Cutting them entirely out of the process.

2. Creating a point of contact.

The media likes talking about Uber right now. But the driver side is rarely reported on because there is no point of contact with drivers themselves. By having an association, this gives voice to the drivers. We can never push Uber to do what we want. But we can give the media all the dirty details, and let them go on the attack.

3. Polishing our members.

We all want to get better ratings. For the most part I've been able to maintain a pretty good rating because I'm personable and people tend to like me. But not everyone is like that. By having an association, we can start to host seminars, training, and development that will help us become better drivers and better people in the long run. Also, we can offer the support that Uber does not care to invest in.

4. The organization/Contingency plan

You have to fight capitalism with more competitive capitalism. When I originally thought about this idea, I thought about incorporating a 501c non profit corporation. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to make this a for-profit corporation, with the members owning the shares in the company. I have startup capital, and if this idea is viable I plan to put up the first funds needed to incorporate, hire a lawyer, CPA, ect to draft bylaws, incorporation rules, ect. But with each new member, members will receive shares in the corporation. With each closed contract and marginable relationship the corporation becomes more valuable, and thus so do the shares. I plan to start off with a few members here in Los Angeles first, and see how it goes. If its successful, we can charge a membership fee to cover expenses,ect. and in the joining agreement issue shares. I want to build an organization so valuable( through the referrals contracts, marketing contracts, equity agreements, ect.) that Uber would want to buy us out. We can then cash in all our shares, and wipe our hands clean.

The idea behind all this is to improve upon what Uber is trying to do, and that is providing a better riding _Experience_. By giving riders directed destinations, product testing, and events based transportation, we are able to pinpoint the needs specific to the market itself. We can can beat Uber at their own game. We as drivers know which restaurants, clubs, events, and venues people are going to. Uber doesnt. We as drivers know what people are drinking, eating, and wanting to experience specific to our market. Uber doesn't. I know on any given night which clubs to go to and which restaurants to frequent. Uber doesnt. By getting to these locations FIRST, we create an experience that Uber would not be able to themselves. And if they want that information in the future, they'll have to buy it from us.

Thoughts. Criticisms. Insults. Have at it. Just my ideas for now. But if enough people are willing, I'm looking for partners.


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## Amiya (Sep 26, 2014)

Dude, thank you so much for taking the time to list out your thoughts in detail, but you need to understand that not everyone who drives for Uber is educated enough to understand the logic behind your suggestions.

Of course, the people on this forum are amongst the best educated drivers, but if you actually go out there and look around especially in high immigrant populations, many drivers cannot speak two sentences of correct English. 

Uber has figured this out and hence they treat their drivers like shit.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

I think your suggested solutions may be treating the symptoms and not the disease. Any Uber Driver's Association would IMHO have to first bargain with Uber to address the drivers issues. It doesn't matter that Uber has stated they will not negotiate with any driver unions. Without drivers they don't have a viable business. If the money stream dries up they WILL negotiate with whoever they have to in order to get it turned back on.

Do we need another organization in addition to CADA and the Teamsters? Would we just be dividing our efforts and fighting against ourselves? I don't know enough about the efforts of either to make an informed decision. I will share my personal opinion. There are so many self serving, as* kissing, ratings ***** drivers that the only way to fix what's broken is for one of the court systems or legislative bodies to step in and protect these desperate drivers from themselves. The drivers will never honor an organized work stoppage and without one....Uber will not negotiate.

Botom line is that I'm more inclined to support CADA and the Teamsters efforts while I wait for some third party to fix this mess. However....god luck with your efforts!


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

I like a lot of what you are saying as you are not approaching it from an adversarial viewpoint, which seems to be the way these types of things are looked at (and often, rightfully so). Along this line, just this past week I sent an email with a suggestion for a quick idea that I had based on my experience (being in sales for years, being involved with marketing as I am now, and owning a restaurant). It was dismissed but I figured it was just by a nobody who didn't bother to run it up the flagpole. Reading this forum I see there is a big mix of people. I think some see it like you and me, who are doing with with one attitude and for perhaps somewhat similar reasons (although to me it's slightly less about the money) and to those that see this more as job and bring the usual limited mindset that come with looking at things that way. The bottom line though is I think your effort if approached as an "association" will not work as these things do tend to degrade as a race towards the bottom. That being said, their might be other ways, perhaps maybe some of the more like minded people can brainstorm on some ideas.


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## CatnipHigh (Sep 23, 2014)

Former Yellow Driver said:


> I think your suggested solutions may be treating the symptoms and not the disease. Any Uber Driver's Association would IMHO have to first bargain with Uber to address the drivers issues. It doesn't matter that Uber has stated they will not negotiate with any driver unions. Without drivers they don't have a viable business. If the money stream dries up they WILL negotiate with whoever they have to in order to get it turned back on.
> 
> Do we need another organization in addition to CADA and the Teamsters? Would we just be dividing our efforts and fighting against ourselves? I don't know enough about the efforts of either to make an informed decision. I will share my personal opinion. There are so many self serving, as* kissing, ratings ***** drivers that the only way to fix what's broken is for one of the court systems or legislative bodies to step in and protect these desperate drivers from themselves. The drivers will never honor an organized work stoppage and without one....Uber will not negotiate.
> 
> Botom line is that I'm more inclined to support CADA and the Teamsters efforts while I wait for some third party to fix this mess. However....god luck with your efforts!


I wouldnt need to bargain with Uber at all. I'm opening new markets for the members, not ALL Uber drivers. The options and services I've mentioned above will only be available to members. Not all Uber drivers.

Maybe the legislative bodies in your state might be more effective than CA. In CA they're pretty ineffective. Especially the corrupt LA City Council.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

I truly appreciate your effort/post, and I like much of what you propose, up to the point of maybe wanting to try some of it. However, as others mentioned, the real problem is Uber's business practices. There's only two things that can happen to make them play fair - turn off the money flow, and/or some beneficial court decisions.

Honestly, if they kept the fare at $1.40, which is what it is here now, gave the drivers the $1 rider fee, and included a tipping option in the app, I would probably be good to go. Assuming the number of rides increased here too. The problem is, I know none of these things will happen. The rider fee is Uber's for good, there will never be a tipping option in the app, and as the rides do increase, the fares will decrease. Just like they have every place else. That's why I'm always working on an exit strategy.


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## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

@CatnipHigh it's almost like the same message that @focusman has, but for whatever reason, this comes across as intelligent and practical, as opposed to his meditation bullshit. Kudos. I'm down.


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## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

The other issue, just by looking at rates across the country, is that there is so much variance between the top and bottom. Hamptons is $3/mile compared to .90 in Chicago - WTF?


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## DCUberXGrrrl (Aug 25, 2014)

Thank you for all the thought you have put into this! I like this concept a lot and am willing to partner with you -- though I am in DC and would like to see an option for an Association chapter here in our market. If we get it up and running, I could potentially help recruit and organize DC Chapter members. If you are open to this, I have some start up capital I could chip in as well, if you draw up paperwork. You can PM me to communicate of line and exchange contact information, if interested. Thanks again!


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> I'm opening new markets for the members, not ALL Uber drivers. The options and services I've mentioned above will only be available to members. Not all Uber drivers.


So you wouldn't actually be a Uber Driver's Association in the sense that you would represent the driver's best interest....instead your association would help Uber drivers make money through alternate "add-on" business? Right. Good luck with that. Hopefully you'll find enough drivers that it will be a workable idea/plan.



CatnipHigh said:


> Maybe the legislative bodies in your state might be more effective than CA. In CA they're pretty ineffective.


The whole ride sharing business is relatively new. It will take some time, probably a few court decisions and perhaps some new laws/regulations to bring it under control. In the mean time....an effective bargaining unit representing the drivers might help. Currently is seems as though CADA or the Teamsters are the best options.


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## Eric in L.A. (Sep 29, 2014)

I like these ideas....the question would be how to create an organized membership for this and stay within the bounds of our Uber contracts. I've seen a few posts around the Uber forms I've been reading where people use Uber to expand their MLM and that just seems dirty to me, I think if I were a rider and my driver started talking about how I need to sell Amway and inviting me to meetings I'd probably rate them one star and block them from picking me up again. But everyone likes freebies. Especially drunk people at 2 a.m. taking a 15 minute ride to an after party. I can imagine it now. "Red Bull? You are a God to me right now!" Though I'm thinking the tip you'll get is five stars and a call at 5 a.m. from his buddy saying "um, he said to call the guy on the business card to take him home, something about needing another Red Bull."

I just got activated and plan to give my first rides by Friday at the latest (need to do some final touch-ups to the interior of the car and devise a smoother way to get the kids' car seats in and out.) Haven't looked into things like the CADA/Teamsters bit, but it sounds like these sorts of movements are gaining momentum.


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## Watson (Sep 29, 2014)

I am new to Uber and just still trying to figure the best way to maximize my time for money. I like where you are going with the add-on services as a way to help the drivers make more money. Not everyone will get the concept as most are focused only on the low rates and want to push Uber to change. Your certainly thinking outside the box. My concern would be that either Uber comes up with a new policy trying to control this type of activity or worse that they take the idea and sign marketing deals themselves.

Like any good idea timing is critical and getting out front makes the difference.

I would be willing to help where possible, but am on the other side of the country. Get it up and working in CA and there would be lots of others jumping on board.


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## Salthedriver (Jun 28, 2014)

Its either Uber's way or the Highway!


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## Travis Kalanick (Sep 30, 2014)

I will never sit with any kind of collective workers association. 

You can always mail your phones back. 

Other than that, Uber onnn.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Eric in L.A. said:


> I like these ideas....the question would be how to create an organized membership for this and stay within the bounds of our Uber contracts. I've seen a few posts around the Uber forms I've been reading where people use Uber to expand their MLM and that just seems dirty to me, I think if I were a rider and my driver started talking about how I need to sell Amway and inviting me to meetings I'd probably rate them one star and block them from picking me up again. But everyone likes freebies. Especially drunk people at 2 a.m. taking a 15 minute ride to an after party. I can imagine it now. "Red Bull? You are a God to me right now!" Though I'm thinking the tip you'll get is five stars and a call at 5 a.m. from his buddy saying "um, he said to call the guy on the business card to take him home, something about needing another Red Bull."
> 
> I just got activated and plan to give my first rides by Friday at the latest (need to do some final touch-ups to the interior of the car and devise a smoother way to get the kids' car seats in and out.) Haven't looked into things like the CADA/Teamsters bit, but it sounds like these sorts of movements are gaining momentum.


I think you're looking at this the wrong way. I have never talked to anyone about what I do outside of uber until they ask me. but I'm that way where ever I am. You specifically mention MLMs, I would be more offended if I used uber and some guy tried selling me on his own car service, unless of course, it came up in the conversation. In the short while I've been doing this, I've had at least a few people ask me for my contact info based on conversations we've had, again I would never offer it until I'm asked. One of them was about my former business I was in and the other was about something else I'm involved with. Of course, I've had other people who I've hardly spoken too and that's fine too.

I think the talk of anything close to collective bargaining is so far removed from that is making uber work that it's laughable. From what I see, people really do love this service, but it's precisely because it's the opposite of that. I think people like me are the majority, we're not ones looking to make this cabby 2.0 or even as a "job", but instead looking at it as something far better for both us and the end users.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

Travis Kalanick said:


> I will never sit with any kind of collective workers association.


You don't have to. However....I have very little doubt that if a "collective workers association" managed to get the rates to what the local cabs get and change the ratings system.....you wouldn't "mail your phone back".


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

DCUberXGrrrl said:


> Thank you for all the thought you have put into this! I like this concept a lot and am willing to partner with you -- though I am in DC and would like to see an option for an Association chapter here in our market. If we get it up and running, I could potentially help recruit and organize DC Chapter members. If you are open to this, I have some start up capital I could chip in as well, if you draw up paperwork. You can PM me to communicate of line and exchange contact information, if interested. Thanks again!


I'm just wondering (expecting?) if Uber will just systematically deactivte everyone known to be organizing in any way.


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## ontheroad (Aug 31, 2014)

Love it!!!! Now here is a brain that is in motion and capable of creative thinking.


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## SunSmith (Apr 20, 2014)

First read your service agreement and make sure you aren't violating it. Uber seems to be particular about advertising other services. I have no problem giving out free samples, did that for Uber as part of their Oktoberfest promotion with First Aid Shot Therapy (energy/caffeine drink). Don't otherwise want to promote businesses in exchange for funds to passengers. I just want the passengers to have a safe ride that I get paid decently for..


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