# Airport Entrapment



## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Dropping off at the airport, I saw a nearly empty waiting area. A middle aged well dressed man alerted as I pulled in, an was hustling to meet me even before my passenger exited.

Once my passenger left, he asked if I could take him downtown. I explained we were invitation only, and he asked if he could pay cash. He seemed in a rush and quite eager to get going. No, I replied, you have to use the app - I was sure there were drivers waiting. He left.

As I drove off I saw dozens of waiting drivers.

Speculation: Airport is trying to catch cheating drivers.

Defense: Just say no.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

They do these stings in my state. Your car gets towed, and the fine is expensive.


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Its happened to me at ORD twice. Don't know if it was a sting or not. Best to just say no.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> Dropping off at the airport, I saw a nearly empty waiting area. A middle aged well dressed man alerted as I pulled in, an was hustling to meet me even before my passenger exited.
> 
> Once my passenger left, he asked if I could take him downtown. I explained we were invitation only, and he asked if he could pay cash. He seemed in a rush and quite eager to get going. No, I replied, you have to use the app - I was sure there were drivers waiting. He left.
> 
> ...


That sounds like textbook entrapment.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

I wonder if you said, i can take you for free, what he'd do.


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Probably accept the offer, give you a tip and then report you.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

mikes424 said:


> Probably accept the offer, give you a tip and then report you.


Report for what? Technically, not a violation.


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

UberBeemer said:


> Report for what? Technically, not a violation.


Report you to Uber. Violation of TOS.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Where in the TOS does it say i can't give someone a free ride?


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## Hamza1994 (Oct 14, 2018)

I think if you are wanting to make money from The cash ride, you are better to do it in city or bar area, for The cash ride at airport it is best organised through Facebook or Whatsapp lift for cash group, or ride spruiker at terminal


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> Speculation: Airport is trying to catch cheating drivers.


Probably not, unless the police there are just total morons. As Stevie said above, that would be classic entrapment and the case would be immediately tossed.

The real way to do it is for a potential rider (or two) to be standing at the curb with luggage, looking expectantly into their phones. Driver approaches and asks if they are waiting for a ride, a conversation ensues and the driver says "I'll drive you downtown for $X cash."

That's a valid sting, and here in Florida that would be a criminal act which would probably result in an arrest and expensive vehicle tow.


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## CvilleUber (Aug 29, 2016)

FWIW: You can only argue entrapment if they persist in convincing you to take the money. Simply offering you money for a cash ride isn't going to be "entrapment" in the eyes of the law.

If you are registered as a TNC operator/driver - and take any money for any ride (organized through FB, etc.), I'm positive a judge will find against you - you know you're violating a law. 

Be careful out there, folks


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

JimKE said:


> Probably not, unless the police there are just total morons. As Stevie said above, that would be classic entrapment and the case would be immediately tossed.
> 
> The real way to do it is for a potential rider (or two) to be standing at the curb with luggage, looking expectantly into their phones. Driver approaches and asks if they are waiting for a ride, a conversation ensues and the driver says "I'll drive you downtown for $X cash."
> 
> That's a valid sting, and here in Florida that would be a criminal act which would probably result in an arrest and expensive vehicle tow.


And yet this exact entrapment sting happens at Union Station DTLA on a regular basis. Remember guys, always say no to the pretty girl offering cash.


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## BikingBob (May 29, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> And yet this exact entrapment sting happens at Union Station DTLA on a regular basis. Remember guys, always say no to the pretty girl offering cash.


Shouldn't I be offering the pretty girl cash to get into MY car? Seems reversed.

I haven't had it happen at the airports, yet. But I have had younger/college aged adult offer me cash on busier nights. I always decline because it's when I am at a bar picking someone up or waiting to get them.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Welcome to the twilight zone.

Had I offered the guy a ride, plenty of folks would assert I was a greedy sod who wanted to cheat his fellow drivers. The whole idea of a sting presumes greed as a motive.

Truth is, I was sorely tempted to open my door. Not from greed - that's too far in the future - but from my good natured desire to help, and from the way a customer-focused job conditions you to be agreeable.

This is why I find the very idea of stings offensive.

As for all the legal beagles out there: good luck.
Even in an ideal world, mounting a defense is costly in time and money. You're not making money sitting in court.
IF there's a court. Many places run such things past an "administrative hearing," an office of the very agency that ran the sting. Care to guess what your chances are in one of those? Disagree? Your next hurdle is getting the next court to even agree to hear the dispute.


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## CvilleUber (Aug 29, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> Welcome to the twilight zone.
> 
> Truth is, I was sorely tempted to open my door. Not from greed - that's too far in the future - but from my good natured desire to help, and from the way a customer-focused job conditions you to be agreeable.


Honestly - I've almost said yes a number of times because of my good nature. I'm at bars (not airports) so I'm not likely to get caught - these folks just want to catch a ride home, and don't understand the "network" part of TNC/Uber - they don't know I get a fine, they don't know my insurance won't cover me (I've always said no - my fear outweighs my good nature).


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Uber " Contract " STATES you are free to negotiate a Lower Fare with pax.

Lower Fare
LARGER TIP.

TOTALLY ABOVE BOARD !


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber " Contract " STATES you are free to negotiate a Lower Fare with pax.
> 
> Lower Fare
> LARGER TIP.
> ...


But the law states that that "lower fare" must be cashless, so either get yourself a square or accept the low low price of $0 cash!


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## cumonohito (Feb 13, 2018)

I've been asked a few times on cash rides, both at the airport as I drop off a passenger, similar type of set up. Both times refused as I was getting a rematch anyway. I thought the same thing of a set up in order to deactivate a driver. On the flip side, as a rider myself, I was actually offered an "off the app" pick up service while I was on vacation a couple of months ago. We where on our way to a cruise, and called an Uber, the driver came in with an SUV, with plenty of room for 4 of us and our luggage, on the way to the pier, the driver gave me his business card and mentioned that he has his "side" gig off the app. He will charge a couple of bucks less than what Uber charged me, all I have to do is call him and he will pick us next the following week once we return.


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## HotUberMess (Feb 25, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> That sounds like textbook entrapment.


I had a guy do this to me at AK. I told him it's illegal for us to take hailers, and directed him to the row of taxis. He asked what if he gave me cash? Just the way he said it was like how people here describe the stings have been. Again I said the taxis are the only ones allowed to take you unless you call us through the app.

He ignored me and immediately went to ask the Uber driver behind me in line.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

RDWRER said:


> But the law states that that "lower fare" must be cashless, so either get yourself a square or accept the low low price of $0 cash!


Several l things

1) Taking credit card payments doesn't put you in compliance with the local laws that require a "vehicle for hire" permit

2) If you are negotiating a lower, or higher fee for an Uber ride, and taking that payment with a credit or debit card, How do you pay Uber, their commission

3) As I see it, the only way to do cash (or credit card) rides legally is to get a permit and commercial insurance. (In my county the insurance is required to even apply for the permit, and Ive been quoted $4000 a year for that insurance


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

cumonohito said:


> I've been asked a few times on cash rides, both at the airport as I drop off a passenger, similar type of set up. Both times refused as I was getting a rematch anyway. I thought the same thing of a set up in order to deactivate a driver. On the flip side, as a rider myself, I was actually offered an "off the app" pick up service while I was on vacation a couple of months ago. We where on our way to a cruise, and called an Uber, the driver came in with an SUV, with plenty of room for 4 of us and our luggage, on the way to the pier, the driver gave me his business card and mentioned that he has his "side" gig off the app. He will charge a couple of bucks less than what Uber charged me, all I have to do is call him and he will pick us next the following week once we return.


Lots of Uber drivers do this at the airport. Pick someone up at the airport on the app, and negotiate the return trip off the app. Ive been setting up the return trip on the app, but as soon as I get permitted as a "vehicle for hire" Ill be doing it off the app


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## HotUberMess (Feb 25, 2018)

oldfart said:


> Several l things
> 
> 1) Taking credit card payments doesn't put you in compliance with the local laws that require a "vehicle for hire" permit
> 
> ...


What about the meter? The actual meter equipment?


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

HotUberMess said:


> I had a guy do this to me at AK. I told him it's illegal for us to take hailers, and directed him to the row of taxis. He asked what if he gave me cash? Just the way he said it was like how people here describe the stings have been. Again I said the taxis are the only ones allowed to take you unless you call us through the app.
> 
> He ignored me and immediately went to ask the Uber driver behind me in line.


This is a great example of laws differing in differing jurisdictions. HotUberMess is correct -- in FLORIDA, taking a cash ride is an arrestible criminal offense. Other states, it might be ok...but not here.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

HotUberMess said:


> What about the meter? The actual meter equipment?


Lee country Florida has one permit for taxis, limos, and black car services and there is a second airport permit to pick up at the airport. I'm not sure what the limitations are under that airport permit

In any case I'm not contemplating a taxi service or ride hailing service , but rather a pre scheduled ride service. Like a limo or black car service so no meter

As to how to handle someone at the airport that flags me down, I'm not sure. There is a taxi service at RSW that has the "on demand" contract so I'd probably just point them to the taxi pick up area. But I think if I was to give them my card and suggest they call to schedule a ride, I could circle the airport, take their call, schedule the pick up for 5 minutes in the future And then pick them up


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Lee country Florida has one permit for taxis, limos, and black car services and there is a second airport permit to pick up at the airport. I'm not sure what the limitations are under that airport permit
> 
> In any case I'm not contemplating a taxi service or ride hailing service , but rather a pre scheduled ride service. Like a limo or black car service so no meter
> 
> As to how to handle someone at the airport that flags me down, I'm not sure. There is a taxi service at RSW that has the "on demand" contract so I'd probably just point them to the taxi pick up area. But I think if I was to give them my card and suggest they call to schedule a ride, I could circle the airport, take their call, schedule the pick up for 5 minutes in the future And then pick them up


Well, as you probably know, under the Florida rideshare law, you are either a licensed and appropriately permitted for-hire...or you're rideshare and can only accept rides through the app. No cash rides for rideshare, no matter how you try to parse the terms -- it's licensed/permitted or TNC, no in between. No local government can require any kind of permit for a rideshare vehicle, but they certainly can for other services.

My advice would be to get the license and airport permit and be done with it. Then, you can rideshare when you want or drive on your own legally without having to worry about inconvenient things like handcuffs and tow trucks.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

JimKE said:


> Well, as you probably know, under the Florida rideshare law, you are either a licensed and appropriately permitted for-hire...or you're rideshare and can only accept rides through the app. No cash rides for rideshare, no matter how you try to parse the terms -- it's licensed/permitted or TNC, no in between. No local government can require any kind of permit for a rideshare vehicle, but they certainly can for other services.
> 
> My advice would be to get the license and airport permit and be done with it. Then, you can rideshare when you want or drive on your own legally without having to worry about inconvenient things like handcuffs and tow trucks.


That's the plan, exactly
And I understand the "no cash ride rule". I have been careful to say that insurance and permitting is required to do cash rides

I have however been "testing" the market for a private ride business by scheduling future rides with my Uber passengers; then doing them on the app.

I am now convinced that there is a market for this service. I will be vacationing for about 2 months beginning Nov 15 so I have no need for the insurance or permits until my return home sometime in January. At which time I plan to launch my new business

I did learn something talking to insurance agents. There are some commercial insurance products that don't allow Uber or Lyft. Because i intend to do Uber and lyft between cash rides my choices were limited


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

UberBeemer said:


> Where in the TOS does it say i can't give someone a free ride?


technically if the pax gives a tip it will only be a tip if there was an intial payment so once the "tip" happens that becomes a paid ride so as long as you don't take any money whatsoever you're fine


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

Since some people work for money, some people work for fun, some people work to live another day. How about if driver asks riders for donation instead of cash?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

ntcindetroit said:


> Since some people work for money, some people work for fun, some people work to live another day. How about if driver asks riders for donation instead of cash?


A cash donation is still cash.


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

UberBeemer said:


> Where in the TOS does it say i can't give someone a free ride?


From

https://www.uber.com/legal/community-guidelines/us-en/

Unacceptable Activities

To maintain the transparency and safety of each trip for all users, activities conducted outside of Uber's system - like anonymous pickups - are prohibited.

What leads to you losing access to your account? We will take action against a driver for activities such as: accepting illegal street hails while using the Uber app; harming the business or brand, like unauthorized use of Uber's trademark or intellectual property, or otherwise violating the drivers' agreement with Uber; and soliciting payment of fares outside the Uber system.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

Irrespective of legality, Uber TOS, etc.

Insurance!!! What happens if pax gets hurt on a cash ride. Uh oh!


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

mikes424 said:


> From
> 
> https://www.uber.com/legal/community-guidelines/us-en/
> 
> ...


You prove my point. By the way the point was speculative. If it were a sting, and you said, "I am going that way anyhow, i can drive you for free" i wonder what the reaction would be.


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## whiskeyboat (Oct 14, 2017)

Liability Insurance


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## KiltedSlinger (May 22, 2018)

The nice thing about being in Oklahoma (non-communist/nanny state) is there are no rules or guidelines or laws that would prevent me from giving someone a cash ride from the airport.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

mikes424 said:


> From
> 
> https://www.uber.com/legal/community-guidelines/us-en/
> 
> ...


So as long as you don't use the Uber name or logo in your ads and as long as you don't display the Uber trade dress when doing private rides everything is good



MadTownUberD said:


> Irrespective of legality, Uber TOS, etc.
> 
> Insurance!!! What happens if pax gets hurt on a cash ride. Uh oh!


What happens if anyone gets hurt in any accident or if if no one gets hurt but there is property damage. Absolutely uh oh.

But that's why you buy insurance


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

oldfart said:


> A cash donation is still cash.


Give the rider a donatio bag w/the instruction as no cash wanted and no cash in your car. They can leave their donation in the bag as you're collecting them as the free amazon delivery for the DiDi of Japan or Softbank of China.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

JimKE said:


> Probably not, unless the police there are just total morons. As Stevie said above, that would be classic entrapment and the case would be immediately tossed.


Sure, but...

You still have to hire a lawyer at your own expense.

You still have to take time off from driving or other activities to show up at court. Including potentially _hours_ waiting for your case to be called.

You're still going to be paying for parking at the courthouse.

I hope you get the picture. And that's if the judge does the right thing and tosses it. But suppose that _doesn't_ happen...

Then you get to pay your lawyer for filing an appeal. Unless you did it without an attorney (risky) or you just decide to give up and pay the fine.

None of this is good. None of it.

Christine


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

oldfart said:


> So as long as you don't use the Uber name or logo in your ads and as long as you don't display the Uber trade dress when doing private rides everything is good
> 
> What happens if anyone gets hurt in any accident or if if no one gets hurt but there is property damage. Absolutely uh oh.
> 
> But that's why you buy insurance


Standard personal vehicle insurance typically doesn't cover liability when using a vehicle for commercial purposes.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

MadTownUberD said:


> Standard personal vehicle insurance typically doesn't cover liability when using a vehicle for commercial purposes.


No kidding I never said it did



Christinebitg said:


> Sure, but...
> 
> You still have to hire a lawyer at your own expense.
> 
> ...


If the judge does the right think he will uphold the fine.. If the rules at your airport say no ride hailing and no pre arranged rides without a permit than thats the rule, The issue isnt so much the cash, its picking up without a permit. Its not fair to the individuals and companies that play by the rules


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

oldfart said:


> If the judge does the right thing he will uphold the fine.


I guess my point is that even if a judge rules favorably, it's still inconvenient and expensive.

Christine


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> he asked if he could pay cash.


Simply asking is not entrapment.

"Will you sell me drugs?"

"Hey mister, if I give you some money, will you buy alcohol for me and my friends?"



UberBeemer said:


> Where in the TOS does it say i can't give someone a free ride?


Exactly... I give free rides to my wife and kids daily. No violation there.



CvilleUber said:


> Simply offering you money for a cash ride isn't going to be "entrapment" in the eyes of the law


If they offered a specific dollar amount, then maybe they are bordering on entrapment. Look up rules of entrapment when it comes to prostitution. If the hooker offers a specific price, then entrapment. But if they say "what will you give me" and you offer a specific dollar amount, you're screwed.



oldfart said:


> 1) Taking credit card payments doesn't put you in compliance with the local laws that require a "vehicle for hire" permit


Correct. Every state/region has laws. If you take a ride for cash, you MUST be permitted somehow, no matter the form of payment.

* Gas, grass or ass - no one rides for free!


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

The "Good Book" is pretty plain on the topic of going before a judge: avoid it at all costs, no matter how sure you are of your position, for you never can tell how he will rule.


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## Sippi (Aug 22, 2018)

Just ran across this earlier:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local...ivers-accepting-illegal-rides-for-cash-video/


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

KiltedSlinger said:


> The nice thing about being in Oklahoma (non-communist/nanny state) is there are no rules or guidelines or laws that would prevent me from giving someone a cash ride from the airport.


You apparently missed mikes424 post above.


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## RynoHawk (Mar 15, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> Dropping off at the airport, I saw a nearly empty waiting area. A middle aged well dressed man alerted as I pulled in, an was hustling to meet me even before my passenger exited.
> 
> Once my passenger left, he asked if I could take him downtown. I explained we were invitation only, and he asked if he could pay cash. He seemed in a rush and quite eager to get going. No, I replied, you have to use the app - I was sure there were drivers waiting. He left.
> 
> ...





Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> That sounds like textbook entrapment.





JimKE said:


> Probably not, unless the police there are just total morons. As Stevie said above, that would be classic entrapment and the case would be immediately tossed.
> 
> The real way to do it is for a potential rider (or two) to be standing at the curb with luggage, looking expectantly into their phones. Driver approaches and asks if they are waiting for a ride, a conversation ensues and the driver says "I'll drive you downtown for $X cash."
> 
> That's a valid sting, and here in Florida that would be a criminal act which would probably result in an arrest and expensive vehicle tow.


If you think it's entrapment, head over to the LA forum and ask how it goes at LAX. I read that they were pretty aggressive.

I'd be leery of anyone offering cash for a ride from an Uber at the airport. They have to walk past the taxi stand to get to the Uber pick up. I do get some that ask occasionally that seem legitimately clueless on how rideshare works. I tell them they have to download the app and blah, blah, blah but also state that it may be easier to start if they just get in a cab for now and figure out the app when they get to the hotel for the rest of their trip and ride back to the airport.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

RynoHawk said:


> If you think it's entrapment, head over to the LA forum and ask how it goes at LAX. I read that they were pretty aggressive.


The case law says that the defendant must be shown to have the "first dirty thought" -- in other words, the defendant has to start the discussion of the illegal act. They also have to specify a particular illegal act they will perform, and the payment for it.

But in the real world, the aggressiveness of a sting would depend on the ethics of the police involved. If they are ethical, they would be very cautious and do the sting the right way.

But...*what if *your target demographic is largely illegal immigrants who will do just about anything to avoid the criminal justice system? Like at a major airport.

In that case, unethical cops could go way over the line -- not only with the mechanics of the sting, but also with how the target gets out of the mess they are in. I could certainly see cops in NYC, Newark, Ft. Lauderdale, or LA doing improper stings and then taking a cash payoff to make everything go away...which is when somebody needs to sting the stingers! I actually had a Broward Sheriff deputy almost start down that path one day, but I stopped him before it got out of hand.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

At NYC Airports forget all your defenses (entrapment, free ride, donation, etc.etc..) Doesn't work as hundreds if not thousands have found out. JUST SAY NO or you are going to give away a lot of your money.
1- Understand it's a kangaroo court that you cannot win in.
2- Anyone who has actually gone to court realizes it's NOT a search for truth or justice.
3- Say anything that even remotely sounds like yes or that you agree and you are done. No money needs to exchange hands.
4- Judge ALWAYS believes the cop, not you.
5-Get $1500. ticket. Give the cop a hard time and then you get your car towed. (at the cops discretion)
6- Plead not guilty , show up on your court date,speak to their lawyer first to negotiate the fine.
7- Negotiate means agree to pay $750 and plead guilty, nothing less.
8-Don't agree means you go see the judge and the prosecutor is there.
9-After waiting hours go before the judge, prosecutor presents the case, no matter what your defense is...quickly found guilty and pay $1500 CASH. Should take about 5 minutes!LOL
10-Don't like it? Get ready to shell out thousands on a lawyer if you want to try an appeal.

Like others have said, JUST SAY NO FIRMLY! You will not beat it. Many have tried before you.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> That sounds like textbook entrapment.


I have no idea about entrapment law but from what I understand such stings are very common at NYC airports. I assume the entrapment defence has been tried, and wonder if it's ever been successful.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

JimKE said:


> The case law says that the defendant must be shown to have the "first dirty thought" -- in other words, the defendant has to start the discussion of the illegal act. They also have to specify a particular illegal act they will perform, and the payment for it.
> 
> But in the real world, the aggressiveness of a sting would depend on the ethics of the police involved. If they are ethical, they would be very cautious and do the sting the right way.
> 
> ...


One time I talked a code enforcement officer (i recognized him from trying to entrap me in true past) into going downstairs to where I "STILL couldn't legally pick him up at departures and we could talk there.

"Chuckles"

I trolled him good... take a guess where I never went.

One time while I was an Uber..

I told someone who was trying to flag me at the airport to go download the Uber app, go downstairs and I *might* be their driver. They kept raising their offer.

I told her "I smell bacon miss piggy" and she got pissed off and KNEW I made her and walked away.

Yeah... good times...

Another time someone came up and asked for a ride and I explained that Uber fires me the day before for unsafe driving and I didn't actually have passenger insurance and was just dropping family off.

Scared the crap out of them... I'm pretty sure they were legit passenger.

The cool thing about Uber is that you can say anything to anyone and if you aren't assigned to them through the app they can't complain.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

I only do cash rides for friends.


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## johnydynamic (Aug 22, 2016)

If you take a cash ride and anything happens, you’ll be in a world of hurt because none of your insurers will touch you. You’ll be on your own for damage, injuries, anything. I won’t take anyone any distance unless it’s on the app. If they offer me cash it’s got to be on top of the app, not instead of it. That way, it’s a tip and I’m good to go liability-wise.


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## x100 (Dec 7, 2015)

This happened to me when DOT set bait and I took it, handcuffed and them driving my cab to a nearby office they had set in a parking lot. They didn't have a strong of a case as I was solicited while getting gas (woman at the bus stop approached me) and not getting flagged, so the sargent appraised the case and let me go. I suggested that I pick ppl up for free short rides when I can and he said 'brother in the U.S. you can always give a free ride to someone' 
But that's still overlooking the insurance and I think technically flawed.



UberBeemer said:


> I wonder if you said, i can take you for free, what he'd do.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

MadTownUberD brings up a good point about insurance.

If I was ever in an accident on a cash ride I would be quick to explain to my pax (assuming we're both able to speak) that he'll never see a penny from Uber or Lyft since he didn't use their service. 
He has no right to even try. 
Best thing he can to do to cash in from my personal insurance is say we're friends and not mention money.

You gotta be quick to make them understand the situation you're both in.

The odds are in your favor. 
Take the damn ride and make some money.

The end.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

UberBeemer said:


> I wonder if you said, i can take you for free, what he'd do.


Free ride with upfront gratuity! Just got to word it right.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

JimKE said:


> This is a great example of laws differing in differing jurisdictions. HotUberMess is correct -- in FLORIDA, taking a cash ride is an arrestible criminal offense. Other states, it might be ok...but not here.


I dropped off at a bar. There were several cops in the parking lot, apparently a small skirmish had happened, cops came and were wrapping things up. I was being nosy and got close. One of the cops called me over and asked me to take one of the guys home. After some back and forth about the guy and his temperament I agreed. Dude doesn't have uber installed or an account. The cops negotiated a $20.00 cash price and collected then handed me the money.

I'm not disputing you, I know the law, just thought I'd share my antidote.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

I said it before. I only do cash jobs for friends. A smart friend would want to get reimbursed by your insurer if they were injured - so, they aren't going to say anything.


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

mikes424 said:


> From
> 
> https://www.uber.com/legal/community-guidelines/us-en/
> 
> ...


Turn off the app and you are no longer an Uber driver and nothing in the TOS means anything.


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## FormerTaxiDriver♧ (Apr 5, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> Dropping off at the airport, I saw a nearly empty waiting area. A middle aged well dressed man alerted as I pulled in, an was hustling to meet me even before my passenger exited.
> 
> Once my passenger left, he asked if I could take him downtown. I explained we were invitation only, and he asked if he could pay cash. He seemed in a rush and quite eager to get going. No, I replied, you have to use the app - I was sure there were drivers waiting. He left.
> 
> ...


They are trying to legally steal your car to make a great police auction choice!!!

Christmas Bonus Money!


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

NOXDriver said:


> Turn off the app and you are no longer an Uber driver and nothing in the TOS means anything.


 No one is concernedabout Uber, 
Its the law and insurance.. and the solution is simple,, either dont do cash rides, or get permitted


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Karen Stein said:


> Dropping off at the airport, I saw a nearly empty waiting area. A middle aged well dressed man alerted as I pulled in, an was hustling to meet me even before my passenger exited.
> 
> Once my passenger left, he asked if I could take him downtown. I explained we were invitation only, and he asked if he could pay cash. He seemed in a rush and quite eager to get going. No, I replied, you have to use the app - I was sure there were drivers waiting. He left.
> 
> ...


Great that you didn't fall for it. That really does sound like a shill


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

cumonohito said:


> I've been asked a few times on cash rides, both at the airport as I drop off a passenger, similar type of set up. Both times refused as I was getting a rematch anyway. I thought the same thing of a set up in order to deactivate a driver. On the flip side, as a rider myself, I was actually offered an "off the app" pick up service while I was on vacation a couple of months ago. We where on our way to a cruise, and called an Uber, the driver came in with an SUV, with plenty of room for 4 of us and our luggage, on the way to the pier, the driver gave me his business card and mentioned that he has his "side" gig off the app. He will charge a couple of bucks less than what Uber charged me, all I have to do is call him and he will pick us next the following week once we return.


Was this in Seattle?


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## cumonohito (Feb 13, 2018)

DexNex said:


> Was this in Seattle?


Being offered the cash ride was in ORD, being given the business card for the off the app was in SJU.


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## Matthew Thomas (Mar 19, 2016)

UberBeemer said:


> Where in the TOS does it say i can't give someone a free ride?


Hell we damn near give rides for free when they request through screwber. Lol


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

cumonohito said:


> Being offered the cash ride was in ORD, being given the business card for the off the app was in SJU.


We have cruise ships here in Seattle. Biz cards are the name of the game.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> One time I talked a code enforcement officer (i recognized him from trying to entrap me in true past) into going downstairs to where I "STILL couldn't legally pick him up at departures and we could talk there.
> 
> "Chuckles"
> 
> I trolled him good... take a guess where I never went.


Now that's a good one. 

C


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## Blatherskite (Nov 30, 2016)

I'm sorry, sir, but I only accept confederate specie.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

mikes424 said:


> Report you to Uber. Violation of TOS.


Are you stupid? It's only a violation of terms if you made said rider cancel the ride on the app so you can take cash. Other than that, you can give cash rides all you want, depending on your insurance and if you are in compliance of local livery laws that allow you to pick up passengers. This will blow your mind: You can give a ride to a rider on the app and then convert them into a private client starting with the next ride!


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Trebor said:


> You can give a ride to a rider on the app and then convert them into a private client starting with the next ride!


That would be my plan. Use Uber as a prospecting tool

You wonder why some drivers will wait in the airport queue for hours and hours for a ride?

It's to get the return ride scheduled and to find regular customers


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

oldfart said:


> That would be my plan. Use Uber as a prospecting tool
> 
> You wonder why some drivers will wait in the airport queue for hours and hours for a ride?
> 
> It's to get the return ride scheduled and to find regular customers


yes, but before you accept any ride outside the apps, make sure you have commercial insurance, as well as any permits from the city/airport you are picking up from. If you say screw the permits, at the very least have commercial insurance.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Trebor said:


> yes, but before you accept any ride outside the apps, make sure you have commercial insurance, as well as any permits from the city/airport you are picking up from. If you say screw the permits, at the very least have commercial insurance.


 I'm not going to skip getting a $200 a year permit after investing $6000 a year for insurance

By the way, there is nothing in my post to suggest doing rides off the app

Think a little "outside the box" guys. I have a guy I pick up every morning, I sit in the 7/11 lot with my coffee at the appointed time, he calls for a lyft, I'm the closest driver and I get the ping every morning

EZPZ


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## corniilius (Jan 27, 2017)

Everybody's an attorney.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

RDWRER said:


> But the law states that that "lower fare" must be cashless, so either get yourself a square or accept the low low price of $0 cash!


Whenever the law refers to a "cash" ride", they are referring to any kind of direct payment for a "flagged" (not arranged) ride. That makes you an illegal taxi.

It doesn't matter if it's cash, CC, PayPal, Venmo, Bitcoin, whatever, it's all the same.

The point is not "cash payments" in a literal sense but rather "prearranged by authorized third party network" in the case of a TNC or prearranged in the case of a TCP. (Quotations are mine).

It's surprising how many people are misguided on this crucual point.


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick (Oct 2, 2016)

UberBeemer said:


> Report for what? Technically, not a violation.


Cops lie all the time.


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## command3r (Oct 25, 2015)

Lol FLL airport has these scumbags soliciting riders all the time. I'm surprised there isn't more fines and cars towed


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

That guy actually wanted a ride he wasn't being delivered, was downtown far or close from the airport? There ya go.

But yeah, the smart VIP driver knows he shouldn't take solicitors specially from aggressive states like NY and such.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I understand how the authorities would catch a driver doing in lawful pick ups at the airport with a “sting” operation 

But can they catch you dropping off someone at the end of a cash ride. Maybe if they see you running a credit card. But if it’s cash; how would they catch that?


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## soontobeautomated (Apr 4, 2017)

My how times have changed. FUbers business model as it enters each new market is to deliberately act in defiance of local laws.

Once well established, FUbers valued driver partners live in fear of the laws. 

I wonder when those at FUber that deliberately extended their middle finger to the law all those years ago will be out on parole? lol


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

At our airport we have a couple (12+) guys who have been skipping the queue by leaving a 2nd phone with a friend in the queue while they took a trip on their 1st phone. They have caused so many issues that our airport authority is going to start issuing permits for Uber/Lyft drivers and pickups will have to be in a designated area. I think that some of the guys skipping the queue now will be tempted to take cash rides (since their ability to skip the queue will dry up) - but here taking a cash or non-queue trip will result in a $500 fine.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

oldfart said:


> I understand how the authorities would catch a driver doing in lawful pick ups at the airport with a "sting" operation
> 
> But can they catch you dropping off someone at the end of a cash ride. Maybe if they see you running a credit card. But if it's cash; how would they catch that?


If they suspect anything or are running some kind of enforcement, one of the first things they ask for is to see your manifest. It has to be current, complete, and square up with passenger interview questions.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Ziggy said:


> At our airport we have a couple (12+) guys who have been skipping the queue by leaving a 2nd phone with a friend in the queue while they took a trip on their 1st phone. They have caused so many issues that our airport authority is going to start issuing permits for Uber/Lyft drivers and pickups will have to be in a designated area. I think that some of the guys skipping the queue now will be tempted to take cash rides (since their ability to skip the queue will dry up) - but here taking a cash or non-queue trip will result in a $500 fine.


We have several such groups at out little airport One I believe actually employes a phone sitter to manage their phones. Another group gives their phones to one guy who shows up at 4 am. I've had drop offs as early as 4:30, and entered the lot at 6-10 in the queue. And there is only one other car in the lot

How will a designated pick up area eliminate the "phone sitting"?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Ziggy said:


> At our airport we have a couple (12+) guys who have been skipping the queue by leaving a 2nd phone with a friend in the queue while they took a trip on their 1st phone.


Eventually this type of person always gets what is coming to them.

Sometimes they get arrested. Sometimes they run into a person who takes the law into their hands.

Life is too short for me to choose to live like that. I'm not interested in anything that makes me have to keep looking over my shoulder.

Christine


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Eventually this type of person always gets what is coming to them.
> 
> Sometimes they get arrested. Sometimes they run into a person who takes the law into their hands.
> 
> ...


Then why are you an Uber driver? Multiple times I've been chilling after a unicorn ride and the cops have pulled up and threatened to arrest me for "camping" 

I guess they see the Uber trade dress and immediately think I must be homeless...


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> Multiple times I've been chilling after a unicorn ride and the cops have pulled up and threatened to arrest me for "camping"


Where are you parked at those times? In a legal parking location?

If so, I'd have to question whether some of the police force is in cahoots with some taxi drivers. (Cahoots is the technical term here in Texas.) 

Christine


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## MarkR (Jul 26, 2015)

RDWRER said:


> But the law states that that "lower fare" must be cashless, so either get yourself a square or accept the low low price of $0 cash!


I love square. I give my card to pax if they need a ride in the future.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Where are you parked at those times? In a legal parking location?
> 
> If so, I'd have to question whether some of the police force is in cahoots with some taxi drivers. (Cahoots is the technical term here in Texas.)
> 
> Christine


Legal parking spots. Usually residential, which is probably the source of the issue with the locals calling the cops on the scary Uber man!  It's also been almost exclusively in Orange County, which is very, very, _very, _*very *anti-homeless and would probably send a guy to jail for letting a bus pass by while sitting at the stop...


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

oldfart said:


> How will a designated pick up area eliminate the "phone sitting"?


The designated area comes along with "paid" permits; and it's highly unlikely that anyone is going to jeopardize their airport permit to take a few extra trips.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

Although once Border Patrol woke me up and was a little brusque with me when I was at the Tijuana border taking a nap after a 4 hour drive to CBX at the very end of my drive time running out for the day. I got the ride with like 10 minutes left on the clock so I was driving like 20+ hours total and _reaally _needed a nap!

But he wasn't threatening me, he was just rudely telling me I was parked in the wrong spot and needed to go sleep in the Uber queue lmao .


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Ziggy said:


> The designated area comes along with "paid" permits; and it's highly unlikely that anyone is going to jeopardize their airport permit to take a few extra trips.


Maybe it's just me being a cynic. But I would be surprised if that type of driver would NOT try to scam the system, regardless of the potential for losing their permit. These are, of course, the same drivers who are willing to risk deactivation by Uber for what they're already doing.

Christine


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> Maybe it's just me being a cynic. But I would be surprised if that type of driver would NOT try to scam the system, regardless of the potential for losing their permit. These are, of course, the same drivers who are willing to risk deactivation by Uber for what they're already doing.
> 
> Christine


Maybe you're right scammers are not going to stop scamming until they get bounced off the apps. The sooner they get deactivated, the better


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Ziggy said:


> Maybe you're right scammers are not going to stop scamming until they get bounced off the apps. The sooner they get deactivated, the better


It's interesting to read this thread, especially the last comment along with the thread where the op is asking for a new fee

I see you guys are asking for the same thing; better and fewer drivers


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> You prove my point. By the way the point was speculative. If it were a sting, and you said, "I am going that way anyhow, i can drive you for free" i wonder what the reaction would be.


Here's what happened last year to a guy in Vegas who did exactly that...

https://www.ktnv.com/news/investigations/uber-driver-says-he-was-hit-with-citations-car-impounded

In the last 2+ years I've been doing this in Vegas I've been approached by NTA scumbags, sorry, I mean "investigators", at least 5 times - twice by the same Asian couple!

One time I had just parked in front of Circus Circus so I could quick run in to the loo, and as I got out of my car I got approached by a couple of guys offering cash for a ride, the whole situation reeked of sting. I passed. When I came out I saw them chatting with another driver who was parked next to my car. I said "Good evening *officers*!" as I came over. They turned and walked away. The other driver came and asked me what that was about and I told him. About and hour an a half later I saw the same guys at Aria as some schlub was getting towed.

I'm offered cash for rides every week (often, multiple times a night) so while it could be far more times, I'm certain that on at least these 5 occasions it was a sting. Likely there were other times, but since I've not taken the bait, I can't be certain.


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

oldfart said:


> I see you guys are asking for the same thing; better and fewer drivers


It's unlikely that either would happen- (1) better is harder to get since Uber lowers fares every few months; and (2) fewer is not part of the Uber/Lyft game plan, they want every able driver in every city to be a driver (that way there is always a driver within 2 minutes of anyone who needs a ride). Luckily, we have a third option (that's a nonprofit TNC); so while I get more trips with U/L, mile-for-mile I make more with the nonprofit app.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

Ziggy said:


> (1) better is harder to get since *Uber lowers fares every few months*


I think you misspoke...

They don't *lower fares* every month, they *increase* what riders pay.:greedy:

They're *lowering payout* to drivers.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Ziggy said:


> It's unlikely that either would happen- (1) better is harder to get since Uber lowers fares every few months; and (2) fewer is not part of the Uber/Lyft game plan, they want every able driver in every city to be a driver (that way there is always a driver within 2 minutes of anyone who needs a ride). Luckily, we have a third option (that's a nonprofit TNC); so while I get more trips with U/L, mile-for-mile I make more with the nonprofit app.


So far uber has been "non-profit" too


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## Michael1230nj (Jun 23, 2017)

This is an old one they have been doing it upstairs at LGA forever.


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

KenLV said:


> I think you misspoke...
> 
> They don't *lower fares* every month, they *increase* what riders pay.:greedy:
> 
> They're *lowering payout* to drivers.


I've been driving since 2014 - and every few months in 2015 they lowered the fares (which affected both driver and pax); our X started at $1.85/mi and by the beginning of 2016 it was down to $0.86/mi). However, recently Uber has been increasing the fares on pax and decreasing pay to drivers (especially during Surge) - so we're both right. Bottom line drivers are making far less than we used to and far less than we should to incentivize good drivers to stay with the program.

Thankfully, the nonprofit Uber alternative we have only takes $1/ride from our trip (though the pax pays a total of $3/trip) - in either case when I get those pax I make much more per trip than I would have with Uber or Lyft


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## x100 (Dec 7, 2015)

Insurance companies these days ask in detail about the friendship when they interview you separately and they try it all to find a hole in your claim. So be careful.

Uber driver was driving a passenger regularly for cash (3x a week). They got t-boned once and she broke her hip. This is really unlucky but sharing so you know risks can be high. In his case he could move to Germany with the German wife. Can you? LOL.

A claim like that can force one into bankruptcy.



Cableguynoe said:


> MadTownUberD brings up a good point about insurance.
> 
> If I was ever in an accident on a cash ride I would be quick to explain to my pax (assuming we're both able to speak) that he'll never see a penny from Uber or Lyft since he didn't use their service.
> He has no right to even try.
> ...


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

MarkR said:


> I love square. I give my card to pax if they need a ride in the future.


You can love Square all you want. But I hope you keep in mind the risks/legalities/realities and make an informed choice, not just do it and cross your fingers.


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

oldfart said:


> So far uber has been "non-profit" too


The primary difference is the nonprofit rideshare company I was talking about is a 501(c)3 real nonprofit and since they only are taking $1/ride - they are bolstering driver earnings vs raping driver earnings


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Wso when do you come to Florida


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