# Lorena Gonzales



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Lorena Gonzales is the assemblywoman responsible for AB5. I am sure she is a nice person but when it comes to rideshare she does not have a clue. The things she wants rideshare companys to be responsible for is ludicrous.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Lorena Gonzales is the assemblywoman responsible for AB5. I am sure she is a nice person but when it comes to rideshare she does not have a clue. The things she wants rideshare companys to be responsible for is ludicrous.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> Lorena Gonzales is the assemblywoman responsible for AB5. I am sure she is a nice person but when it comes to rideshare she does not have a clue. The things she wants rideshare companys to be responsible for is ludicrous.


Lorena is a very nice person with very high level of understanding of exactly what Uber and the other companies trying weasel their way out of ab5 are about. Lorena not being as easy to bully as your average politician is a bit novel but Uber will just have to get over that.

Lorena expects Uber to adhere to laws that Uber has spent millions upon millions trying avoid. Nothing new .


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## May H. (Mar 20, 2018)

Jimmy44 said:


> Lorena Gonzales is the assemblywoman responsible for AB5. I am sure she is a nice person but when it comes to rideshare she does not have a clue. The things she wants rideshare companys to be responsible for is ludicrous.


Disagree.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

everythingsuber said:


> Lorena is a very nice person with very high level of understanding of exactly what Uber and the other companies trying weasel their way out of ab5 are about. Lorena not being as easy to bully as your average politician is a bit novel but Uber will just have to get over that.
> 
> Lorena expects Uber to adhere to laws that Uber has spent millions upon millions trying avoid. Nothing new .


I really do not agree with anything you said except she does seem like a nice person.



May H. said:


> Disagree.


I respect your opinion and agree to disagree.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> I really do not agree with anything you said except she does seem like a nice person.
> 
> 
> I respect your opinion and agree to disagree.


What Lorena has done completely nailed Uber to the wall regarding its mistreatment of drivers and called them out on pretty much every lie and misrepresentation Uber has put forward fighting ab5 
That's been bourne out in today's court decision.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

IR12 said:


> That's California politics for you.
> I'm surprised ridesharing hasn't funded her opponent's campaign.


I agree. Paid family leave and workman's comp. just a couple things that are ludicrous.



everythingsuber said:


> What Lorena has done completely nailed Uber to the wall regarding its mistreatment of drivers and called them out on pretty much every lie and misrepresentation Uber has put forward fighting ab5
> That's been bourne out in today's court decision.


I think we are independent contractors not employee's.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

I still take the goodies Uber has given calif drivers, tho.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> I still take the goodies Uber has given calif drivers, tho.


I am all for those goodies and wish Connecticut had them. I am very upset with Uber for taking them away from diamond drivers. However I do not expect Uber to give me all the perks of an employee.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> I think we are independent contractors not employee's


If we are ICs then we need to be treated as ICs and we are not.

The choices are: treat drivers as ICs or treat them as employees. Since Uber refuses to treat us as ICs, they are being forced down the other road.

The problem is UBER. If they would simply follow the law from the very beginning, none of this would have ever come to fruition.

Treat us as ICs, 100% all the way, and all this other crap goes away. Give us the control over our own jobs, as the laws allow. None of this pick-and-choose what to give us garbage.

I applaud AB5 for FORCING Uber to do the right thing. No, they don't like it. Yes, they are doing everything they can to avoid it, including spreading lies about it. Don't get sucked into believing the hype they are backing. Think for yourself, and realize that this is the ONLY way that Uber will ever treat us better.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Mista T said:


> If we are ICs then we need to be treated as ICs and we are not.
> 
> The choices are: treat drivers as ICs or treat them as employees. Since Uber refuses to treat us as ICs, they are being forced down the other road.
> 
> ...


In what way do they not treat us as independent contractors ?


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> In what way do they not treat us as independent contractors ?


Seriously? That's a full hour of typing on my end.

Do a little research on the legalities of being an IC, and get back to me please.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

We are employee/IC hybrids and the law should recognize as such. Pure IC would mean drivers bidding for trips like auctions on eBay. Pure employee would mean scheduled shifts. I prefer the status quo.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Mista T said:


> Seriously? That's a full hour of typing on my end.
> 
> Do a little research on the legalities of being an IC, and get back to me please.


I did not make the claim you did. I just asked you to name a few. I think they treat me as an independent contractor in every way.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

I like the current status. I get full info ping and that is really all I wanted. I was already an employee for over 3 decades; done with that. A great many who want AB5 are clueless about what being a employee really really means. It is not rainbows and honey.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jon Stoppable said:


> We are employee/IC hybrids and the law should recognize as such. Pure IC would mean drivers bidding for trips like auctions on eBay. Pure employee would mean scheduled shifts. I prefer the status quo.


I'm really trying to follow you but you are going in a lot of directions. You made up that name employee/independent contractor hybrid. I have never considered myself anything else but an independent contractor. Tell me how I can bid on a ride ?



SHalester said:


> I like the current status. I get full info ping and that is really all I wanted. I was already an employee for over 3 decades; done with that. A great many who want AB5 are clueless about what being a employee really really means. It is not rainbows and honey.


You make a lot of good points especially not wanting to be an employee. We all chose rideshare because it was as far from being an employee as possible. Just because I want full info pings, the old surge model and 6% bump in pay along with 75% split does not mean I want to be an employee. I just want fair pay for my independent contractor work.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

For the record: I dont want to be an Uber employee.

--> An IC has the right to know everything that they are getting into (financial and otherwise) before they enter a contract. They also have the right to renegotiate as circumstances dictate. They dont need to drive to a pickup just to find out if want the ride or not! They can negotiate a different rate ON THE SPOT if need be. They have a right to know DETAILS about any accusations that might affect their livelihoods. 

Think about your relationships with lawyers, plumbers, contractors, roofers, or anyone else who might be an IC. They know what they are getting into before saying yes. And they can renegotiate if something comes up during the job ("looks like that pipe is rusted out, sir. that will cost an extra $125 to fix.")


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Lorena as lovely as she is should probably only have one thread &#128522;


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> Lorena Gonzales is the assemblywoman responsible for AB5. I am sure she is a nice person but when it comes to rideshare she does not have a clue. The things she wants rideshare companys to be responsible for is ludicrous.


ya she should be ashamed of herself for going out of her way to give drivers benefits they have never had before nor would they ever have had without her help

great "news" article you posted here as well


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

jimmy sounds a lot like another iteration of tomatopaste

this time he's giving a little("lorena sounds nice") to pull you in, while bashing her in the rest of the same sentence to lead you astray

it's an old CIA/Freemasonic trick


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## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

Those who don’t want to be employee they can always quit.There are enough ants in the market who want to be employee.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> jimmy sounds a lot like another iteration of tomatopaste
> 
> this time he's giving a little("lorena sounds nice") to pull you in, while bashing her in the rest of the same sentence to lead you astray
> 
> it's an old CIA/Freemasonic trick


Yup a quick look at his profile beforehand I thought the same.


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

Elephant said:


> Those who don't want to be employee they can always quit.There are enough ants in the market who want to be employee.


And there are enough who want to remain as IC-- so those who don't want to be IC can quit.

I signed up as an IC and have no desire to be forced into employment. There should be options to chose from.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Mash Ghasem said:


> And there are enough who want to remain as IC-- so those who don't want to be IC can quit.
> 
> I signed up as an IC and have no desire to be forced into employment. There should be options to chose from.


you can't be an independent contractor with Uber or Lyft, they will do whatever they want, cut your rates as much as they want, fire you for false allegations whenever they want.....a million things they will do even though we are supposed to be IC's and they aren't supposed to be able to and there will never be anything you can do about it.....all drivers would love to be IC's but it will never work so if you want to be an IC find another business....you and the other sellouts aren't going to force all the hardworking drivers into poverty


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

uberdriverfornow said:


> you can't be an independent contractor with Uber or Lyft, they will do whatever they want, cut your rates as much as they want, fire you for false allegations whenever they want and there will never be anything you can do about it.....all drivers would love to be IC's but it will never work so if you want to be an IC find another business


We can argue this back and forth to death. Regardless, some portion of drivers want to be employees and some portion don't. AB5 should have addressed the issues with some manner of regulating rideshare, not forcefully lumping drivers into categories they don't want to be in. Period.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Mash Ghasem said:


> We can argue this back and forth


there's no argument

drivers have never been IC's and never will be

hence the need for AB5


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

uberdriverfornow said:


> there's no argument
> 
> drivers have never been IC's and never will be
> 
> hence the need for AB5


This is the argument back and forth, and we can go on for ever. And you will not win, and I will not win, because we each want different outcomes from this mess. As I already said, AB5 should have addressed the issues via regulation and options. Period.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Mash Ghasem said:


> This is the argument back and forth, and we can go on for ever. And you will not win, and I will not win, because we each want different outcomes from this mess. As I already said, AB5 should have addressed the issues via regulation and options. Period.


AB5 addressed it, the courts will force it on Uber and Lyft and we will finally be considered the employees we are


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

uberdriverfornow said:


> AB5 addressed it, the courts will force it on Uber and Lyft and we will finally be considered the employees we are


I already made my point.
[Over and out]


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Mash Ghasem said:


> I already made my point.
> [Over and out]


any company can ignore labor law until they are forced to follow it, that's what Uber and Lyft are currently doing

everyone but you apparently can see that that is what is currently happening


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> I am sure she is a nice person but when it comes to rideshare she does not have a clue.


Esplain ? Such as,...


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

everythingsuber said:


> Lorena as lovely as she is should probably only have one thread &#128522;
> 
> View attachment 414473


So there is corolati


everythingsuber said:


> Lorena as lovely as she is should probably only have one thread &#128522;
> 
> View attachment 414473


I said she seem's like a nice person. Her looks have nothing to do with her understanding of rideshare.



uberdriverfornow said:


> ya she should be ashamed of herself for going out of her way to give drivers benefits they have never had before nor would they ever have had without her help
> 
> great "news" article you posted here as well


I do not think it is Ubers job or responsibility to give independent contractors employee benefits.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Esplain ? Such as,...


Overtime pay, workman's comp, paid leave are just a few.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> I'm really trying to follow you but you are going in a lot of directions. You made up that name employee/independent contractor hybrid. I have never considered myself anything else but an independent contractor. Tell me how I can bid on a ride ?


You can't, but true ICs can negotiate their rates with clients. U/L wants to say they are just a venue like eBay, but on eBay, buyers and sellers negotiate. U/L does not allow that, which is probably a good thing for drivers.

Negotiating rates would push them down. Why did regulated cab rates get created? One reason was to protect customers from gouging (surge), the other was to set a floor for driver pay. But that would have resulted in too many drivers, so regulators artificially restricted supply.

U/L killed that, but still have a price floor, which is why we think there are too many drivers. At a $5+ min, the supply of drivers will increase. So then we get solutions like NYC.

What would happen at a $1 min? That could be a profitable trip for someone, if the pax fare dropped to say $1.50 you could get stacked pings like crazy downtown, so driving a half mile in a hybrid would be profitable and you'd have to do like 15 rides an hour.

That's probably Uber's vision of the SDC future.


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

uberdriverfornow said:


> any company can ignore labor law until they are forced to follow it, that's what Uber and Lyft are currently doing
> 
> everyone but you apparently can see that that is what is currently happening


I see very well what is happening, thank you very much: one group of people want to remain as IC (as I keep repeating and as you keep ignoring), one group of people want to become employees. Meanwhile, Uber mistreats everyone in various ways.

So, let those who want to become employees, do so. But don't you dare force your own wants and opinions down on the rest of us. The rest of us want to maintain our own business entities and remain IC, with some form of regulation to prevent what they are currently doing.

Capiche?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Mash Ghasem said:


> I see very well what is happening, thank you very much: one group of people want to remain as IC (as I keep repeating and as you keep ignoring), one group of people want to become employees. Meanwhile, Uber mistreats everyone in various ways.
> 
> So, let those who want to become employees, do so. But don't you dare force your own wants and opinions down on the rest of us. The rest of us want to maintain our own business entities and remain IC, with some form of regulation to prevent what they are currently doing.
> 
> Capiche?


I agree with most of what your saying. I disagree about making new laws and regulations just for the purpose of rideshare. It's a very slippery slope.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> I disagree about making new laws and regulations just for the purpose of rideshare.


did you forget the time when $2000 fines and tows was normal for rideshares operating illegally?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jon Stoppable said:


> You can't, but true ICs can negotiate their rates with clients. U/L wants to say they are just a venue like eBay, but on eBay, buyers and sellers negotiate. U/L does not allow that, which is probably a good thing for drivers.
> 
> Negotiating rates would push them down. Why did regulated cab rates get created? One reason was to protect customers from gouging (surge), the other was to set a floor for driver pay. But that would have resulted in too many drivers, so regulators artificially restricted supply.
> 
> ...


We all have the freedom to work for rideshare


njn said:


> did you forget the time when $2000 fines and tows was normal for rideshares operating illegally?


I think they should be stiff. Maybe it would have saved that girl who was killed by the man posing as lift driver. 


njn said:


> did you forget the time when $2000 fines and tows was normal for rideshares operating illegally?


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## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> We all have the freedom to work for rideshare


Yes we all have freedom to drive.Whether we are employee or independent contractor, we are always our own boss.Even we become employee we will never lose our freedom.If we become employee and Uber set schedule we will drive for them if schedule is suitable for us otherwise we won't drive.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Elephant said:


> Yes we all have freedom to drive.Whether we are employee or independent contractor, we are always our own boss.If we become employee and Uber set schedule we will drive for them if schedule is suitable for us otherwise we won't drive.


Well said !


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> I disagree about making new laws and regulations just for the purpose of rideshare. It's a very slippery slope.


I'm sure corporations had kind hearted people like yourself supporting them back when child labor laws were initiated. "Whoa, whoa easy on these regulations! Let the free market decide."


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> Lorena Gonzales is the assemblywoman responsible for AB5. I am sure she is a nice person but when it comes to rideshare she does not have a clue. The things she wants rideshare companys to be responsible for is ludicrous.


Someone should introduce them to
LORENA BOBBITT...


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Someone should introduce them to
> LORENA BOBBITT...


Ouch !!! Very graphic and painful comparison. Also very true.



kc ub'ing! said:


> I'm sure corporations had kind hearted people like yourself supporting them back when child labor laws were initiated. "Whoa, whoa easy on these regulations! Let the free market decide."


Comparing exploiting innocent children to adult drivers who choose to use a rideshare app is ludicrous.


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> Comparing exploiting innocent children to adult drivers who choose to use a rideshare app is ludicrous.


You missed the point. Child labor laws had to be initiated and enforced! That's ridiculous on its face! Regulations are good and necessary. You're against them obvious right wing voter. Hoodwinked!

Exploitation is exploitation. I choose the side of the exploited. You choose corporations. Live with it jack! And stuff your lame, too late virtue signaling:


Jimmy44 said:


> exploiting innocent children


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Elephant said:


> Yes we all have freedom to drive.Whether we are employee or independent contractor, we are always our own boss.Even we become employee we will never lose our freedom.If we become employee and Uber set schedule we will drive for them if schedule is suitable for us otherwise we won't drive.


To me employee means you have a boss. You lose the ability to choose hours and days you work as well as where you work. I work both apps and love the freedom of being an independent contractor.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> We all have the freedom to work for rideshare


Yes, but we dont have many of the freedoms that a true IC has. And that's why regulations began in the first place. WE ARE NOT BEING TREATED AS TRUE ICS.



kc ub'ing! said:


> You missed the point. Child labor laws had to be initiated and enforced! That's ridiculous on its face! Regulations are good and necessary.


Without regulations, Camel cigarettes would continue to market to children.

Without regulations, insurance companies could reject every claim across the board.

Without regulations, children could work in the porn industry.

Without regulations, rideshare continues to victimize the ignorant and flaunt the laws.

Etc, etc.


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## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> I work both apps and love the freedom of being an independent contractor.


Right now Uber Is our boss and they are using their algorithm to control us.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Mista T said:


> Yes, but we dont have many of the freedoms that a true IC has. And that's why regulations began in the first place. WE ARE NOT BEING TREATED AS TRUE ICS.
> 
> Without regulations, Camel cigarettes would continue to market to children.
> 
> ...


Doing rideshare is totally the individuals choice. If your not happy you have the right to quit. If you want to be an employee then go work for an employer.



Elephant said:


> Right now Uber Is our boss and they are using their algorithm to control us.


You have the right to turn off your app and make your money elsewhere.



Jimmy44 said:


> Doing rideshare is totally the individuals choice. If your not happy you have the right to quit. If you want to be an employee then go work for an employer.
> 
> 
> You have the right to turn off your app and make your money elsewhere.


I do agree with your alga theory to a degree.


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## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> If you want to be an employee then go work for an employer.


There are many driver who love Uber and want to be their employee.If you don't want to be their employee you can quit anytime.Uber is our employer and we are driving for them and Lorena is helping us to get our rights.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Elephant said:


> There are many driver who love Uber and want to be their employee.If you don't want to be their employee you can quit anytime.Uber is our employer and we are driving for them and Lorena is helping us to get our rights.


I want a date with Jennifer Anniston but that does not mean I am going to get one. Just because you say Uber is your employer does not make it true. I don't want to be there employer and I am not. Lorena and you are wrong these things she is asking for are not rights. You do not have the right to force an app owner to hire you.


Elephant said:


> There are many driver who love Uber and want to be their employee.If you don't want to be their employee you can quit anytime.Uber is our employer and we are driving for them and Lorena is helping us to get our rights.


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## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> You do not have the right to force an app owner to hire you.


If app owner can fire you they can hire you too.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Elephant said:


> If app owner can fire you they can hire you too.


Deactivate not fire. Do not let you use there app anymore.


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## deplorable1 (Apr 14, 2018)

Mash Ghasem said:


> We can argue this back and forth to death. Regardless, some portion of drivers want to be employees and some portion don't. AB5 should have addressed the issues with some manner of regulating rideshare, not forcefully lumping drivers into categories they don't want to be in. Period.


I can see both sides of the argument. I'm gonna go with my gut on this one.. Anytime the government gets involved the costs far outweigh the benefits. (We're talking about a bill brought to you by the politicians of the state of California..I'll pass.)


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## producemanjames (Jun 20, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> you can't be an independent contractor with Uber or Lyft, they will do whatever they want, cut your rates as much as they want, fire you for false allegations whenever they want.....a million things they will do even though we are supposed to be IC's and they aren't supposed to be able to and there will never be anything you can do about it.....all drivers would love to be IC's but it will never work so if you want to be an IC find another business....you and the other sellouts aren't going to force all the hardworking drivers into poverty


spoken like a true ant &#128028;


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

deplorable1 said:


> I can see both sides of the argument. I'm gonna go with my gut on this one.. Anytime the government gets involved the costs far outweigh the benefits. (We're talking about a bill brought to you by the politicians of the state of California..I'll pass.)


Could not agree more !!!



producemanjames said:


> spoken like a true ant &#128028;


I love being an independent contractor and am doing very well running both U/L.



Mash Ghasem said:


> We can argue this back and forth to death. Regardless, some portion of drivers want to be employees and some portion don't. AB5 should have addressed the issues with some manner of regulating rideshare, not forcefully lumping drivers into categories they don't want to be in. Period.


I am very happy being an IC and running both U/L. I want know part of being an employee. Been there done that.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Regulations are good and necessary


I would alter that a bit to say that good regulations are necessary. There have been plenty of bad laws and regulations. CA is somewhat notorious for those, especially with respect to ill-conceived laws and regulations making their housing crisis worse.

Those of us who enjoy IC status consider AB5 to be yet another bad CA law, and hope the contagion doesn't spread.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Mash Ghasem said:


> I see very well what is happening, thank you very much: one group of people want to remain as IC (as I keep repeating and as you keep ignoring), one group of people want to become employees. Meanwhile, Uber mistreats everyone in various ways.
> 
> So, let those who want to become employees, do so. But don't you dare force your own wants and opinions down on the rest of us. The rest of us want to maintain our own business entities and remain IC, with some form of regulation to prevent what they are currently doing.
> 
> Capiche?


wrong, it's not one group, it's ALL groups of drivers want to be IC's but it's not possible with Uber and Lyft and we must be employees to keep from being screwed into oblivion by Uber and Lyft

nice try, though



Jon Stoppable said:


> I would alter that a bit to say that good regulations are necessary. There have been plenty of bad laws and regulations. CA is somewhat notorious for those, especially with respect to ill-conceived laws and regulations making their housing crisis worse.
> 
> Those of us who enjoy IC status consider AB5 to be yet another bad CA law, and hope the contagion doesn't spread.


regulations are good, taxes are bad

and yes we get it, you love being rate cutted into oblivion, but all other drivers hate it


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> Doing rideshare is totally the individuals choice. If your not happy you have the right to quit. If you want to be an employee then go work for an employer.


I want to work as an IC.

Uber says they will work me as an IC.

Don't I have the right, legally, to be treated as an IC?

Your 'logic' has downgraded from "I dont understand the problem" to "just quit if you dont like it". Stay on topic and explain to me why millions of drivers don't deserve the legal protections granted to Americans, if you can.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

uberdriverfornow said:


> regulations are good, taxes are bad
> 
> and yes we get it, you love being rate cutted into oblivion, but all other drivers hate it


Actually CA's prop 13 is sometimes implicated as one of the causes of CA's housing crisis. Sometimes taxes are good, especially if they are property taxes in favor of sales taxes. It took CA like 25 years to realize that was regressive and harmful to their public schools before they responded with an income tax increase to offset the lost revenue.

We drivers cut our own rates by being too eager to drive. If U/L are forced to make higher payouts, there will be even more drivers but getting fewer pings each. The net online pay rate won't change much.


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Jon Stoppable said:


> CA is somewhat notorious for those


5th highest gdp on the planet! Clean air and water a priority. Cali is doing alright.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jon Stoppable said:


> I would alter that a bit to say that good regulations are necessary. There have been plenty of bad laws and regulations. CA is somewhat notorious for those, especially with respect to ill-conceived laws and regulations making their housing crisis worse.
> 
> Those of us who enjoy IC status consider AB5 to be yet another bad CA law, and hope the contagion doesn't spread.


Bravo !!


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

kc ub'ing! said:


> 5th highest gdp on the planet!


I'd like to see PPP per capita. Total GDP ain't all that relevant. I prefer to be able to afford the cost of living on a bear's meager earnings.


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## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> Deactivate not fire. Do not let you use there app anymore.


Driver can clock in and clock out on Uber system and pick up uber passenger only when drivers are hired by them.
If Uber fire their driver they will deactivate their app and driver can't clock in/out.
I don't know the exact number but I believe Uber may have fired more than 50000 drivers.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Elephant said:


> Driver can clock in and clock out on Uber system and pick up uber passenger only when drivers are hired by them.
> If Uber fire their driver they will deactivate their app and driver can't clock in/out.
> I don't know the exact number but I believe Uber may have fired more than 50000 drivers.


You cannot fire a driver you never hired. Uber has never fired one person who uses the app.


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> I agree with most of what your saying. I disagree about making new laws and regulations just for the purpose of rideshare. It's a very slippery slope.


It would indeed be a slippery slope, however, we drivers are already slipping on that slope with Uber/etc taking advantage of us every which way. There has to be some compromise to allow rideshare companies to operate properly while rideshare IC/operators can also equally operate properly without being taken advantage of.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Jon Stoppable said:


> Actually CA's prop 13 is sometimes implicated as one of the causes of CA's housing crisis. Sometimes taxes are good, especially if they are property taxes in favor of sales taxes. It took CA like 25 years to realize that was regressive and harmful to their public schools before they responded with an income tax increase to offset the lost revenue.
> 
> We drivers cut our own rates by being too eager to drive. If U/L are forced to make higher payouts, there will be even more drivers but getting fewer pings each. The net online pay rate won't change much.


lol ya it's drivers fault Uber and Lyft have cut our rates from $2.00 a mile to 35 cents a mile

i think it's something like 50% of the posters here are paid to post on behalf of Uber and Lyft, just a bunch of shills....luckily people like me and Mista T and others are here to actually stand up for drivers

"you can fool most of the people most of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time"


----------



## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> i think it's something like 50% of the posters here are paid to post on behalf of Uber and Lyft, just a bunch of shills....


New member .....just recently joined in 2020


----------



## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lol ya it's drivers fault Uber and Lyft have cut our rates from $2.00 a mile to 35 cents a mile


It is your fault if you take those rates. They wouldn't be able to cut rates if drivers didn't accept them.

I mean $2 a mile, who wouldn't want to drive at that rate? I'd be making like $50 per hour.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jon Stoppable said:


> It is your fault if you take those rates. They wouldn't be able to cut rates if drivers didn't accept them.
> 
> I mean $2 a mile, who wouldn't want to drive at that rate? I'd be making like $50 per hour.


If your not out there somebody else will. There is a glut of drivers and U/L know it. I am driving for pick up fee's, mileage, minutes and tips.


----------



## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

Exactly. They know drivers will take the lower rates to the point of minimum wage. If they drop the rate to $0.35/mi in my market, I'm out. But the hybrids drivers can hang on and will pick up all of my pings. They will go from 70% booked to 100%.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jon Stoppable said:


> Exactly. They know drivers will take the lower rates to the point of minimum wage. If they drop the rate to $0.35/mi in my market, I'm out. But the hybrids drivers can hang on and will pick up all of my pings. They will go from 70% booked to 100%.


It is getting rough out there. I think they have gone about as low as they can.


----------



## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

I have many very choice words for her. She has not got a clue about what being a Ride Share driver is all about.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

KK2929 said:


> I have many very choice words for her. She has not got a clue about what being a Ride Share driver is all about.


Exactly !


----------



## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Mash Ghasem said:


> We can argue this back and forth to death. Regardless, some portion of drivers want to be employees and some portion don't. AB5 should have addressed the issues with some manner of regulating rideshare, not forcefully lumping drivers into categories they don't want to be in. Period.


----------------
Absolutely correct. As for portions of drivers wanting which classification -- The Ride Share Guy did a survey in mid 2019. One question asked 911 drivers which they wanted --- 66 % stated that they wanted to remain I. C and 17 % stated they wanted to be employees. There were a total of 20 questions on this survey. Very interesting and informative survey.
To see -- Search -- The Ride Share Guys survey in 2019


----------



## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

Small Restaurants Exploited by Delivery Apps Protected Under New Legislation by Lorena Gonzalez
https://a80.asmdc.org/press-release...y-apps-protected-under-new-legislation-lorena


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Elephant said:


> Small Restaurants Exploited by Delivery Apps Protected Under New Legislation by Lorena Gonzalez
> https://a80.asmdc.org/press-release...y-apps-protected-under-new-legislation-lorena


I do not want to say something against CA. and there politics. But the blank blank blanks have empowered her.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Jon Stoppable said:


> It is your fault if you take those rates. They wouldn't be able to cut rates if drivers didn't accept them.
> 
> I mean $2 a mile, who wouldn't want to drive at that rate? I'd be making like $50 per hour.


lol I bet you blame women for choosing to walk in public when something bad happens to them.



Jimmy44 said:


> It is getting rough out there. I think they have gone about as low as they can.


You could always ask your employer Uber if they plan on cutting rates again soon.



KK2929 said:


> ----------------
> Absolutely correct. As for portions of drivers wanting which classification -- The Ride Share Guy did a survey in mid 2019. One question asked 911 drivers which they wanted --- 66 % stated that they wanted to remain I. C and 17 % stated they wanted to be employees. There were a total of 20 questions on this survey. Very interesting and informative survey.
> To see -- Search -- The Ride Share Guys survey in 2019


There is no correlation between most drivers wanting to be IC's and Uber and Lyft actually treating drivers like IC's. None.


----------



## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lol I bet you blame women for choosing to walk in public when something bad happens to them.


If a woman is walking in public and a guy says, "hey lady, you wanna get raped?" and the woman replies, "yes, thank you, I would enjoy being raped in public by a stranger!" , then yes, I would blame the woman, although blame is not quite the right word for that situation. Otherwise, nope.

Did Uber enter your car against your will and force you to take a ride at gunpoint or something? Does your market not have a published rate card?


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Jon Stoppable said:


> If a woman is walking in public and a guy says, "hey lady, you wanna get raped?" and the woman replies, "yes, thank you, I would enjoy being raped in public by a stranger!" , then yes, I would blame the woman, although blame is not quite the right word for that situation. Otherwise, nope.
> 
> Did Uber enter your car against your will and force you to take a ride at gunpoint or something? Does your market not have a published rate card?


Nah, the actual symbolism is a driver accepting a trip not knowing he's losing money because it pays below minimum wage but you blame the victim. The same being a woman not knowing she is gonna get hurt for voluntarily walking the street and you would blame her for taking a walk in the street which should not be a problem.

victim blaming


----------



## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

Worst case trip for me is 9 minutes to pax (which I only take if I want to go in that direction anyway) then $3 for a 5 minute drive. That's still $12 per hour, which is well above minimum in my state. That doesn't happen to me though because guarantees and bonuses ensure that I get more than minimum fare even if I got nothing but such trips. Which never happens either. So I find your argument about sub-minimum wage to be completely silly. That only happens if you suck at RS.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Elephant said:


> New member .....just recently joined in 2020


ya and these "new members" always seem to know so much about rideshare operations



Jon Stoppable said:


> Worst case trip for me is 9 minutes to pax (which I only take if I want to go in that direction anyway) then $3 for a 5 minute drive. That's still $12 per hour, which is well above minimum in my state. That doesn't happen to me though because guarantees and bonuses ensure that I get more than minimum fare even if I got nothing but such trips. Which never happens either. So I find your argument about sub-minimum wage to be completely silly. That only happens if you suck at RS.


at any moment, without warning, and without a union contract, they can cut rates to 35 cents a mile like has happened in numerous parts of this country

and that is just one aspect, numerous drivers getting deactivated for false activation s...what are you going to do when that happens to you ?


----------



## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

uberdriverfornow said:


> at any moment, without warning, and without a union contract, they can cut rates to 35 cents a mile like has happened in numerous parts of this country
> 
> and that is just one aspect, numerous drivers getting deactivated for false activation s...what are you going to do when that happens to you ?


Scenario A: stop driving

Scenario B: I dunno, maybe file for arbitration. I hear they are so far behind on arb claims that they are likely to concede. At a minimum it will cost them a bundle of cash to pay the arb fees. What would you do?


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Jon Stoppable said:


> Scenario A: stop driving
> 
> Scenario B: I dunno, maybe file for arbitration. I hear they are so far behind on arb claims that they are likely to concede. At a minimum it will cost them a bundle of cash to pay the arb fees. What would you do?


nah, instead of going and digging a hole and burying our heads in it like you, we'd rather stand up for ourselves


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jon Stoppable said:


> If a woman is walking in public and a guy says, "hey lady, you wanna get raped?" and the woman replies, "yes, thank you, I would enjoy being raped in public by a stranger!" , then yes, I would blame the woman, although blame is not quite the right word for that situation. Otherwise, nope.
> 
> Did Uber enter your car against your will and force you to take a ride at gunpoint or something? Does your market not have a published rate card?


Last paragraph says it all.



Mista T said:


> For the record: I dont want to be an Uber employee.
> 
> --> An IC has the right to know everything that they are getting into (financial and otherwise) before they enter a contract. They also have the right to renegotiate as circumstances dictate. They dont need to drive to a pickup just to find out if want the ride or not! They can negotiate a different rate ON THE SPOT if need be. They have a right to know DETAILS about any accusations that might affect their livelihoods.
> 
> Think about your relationships with lawyers, plumbers, contractors, roofers, or anyone else who might be an IC. They know what they are getting into before saying yes. And they can renegotiate if something comes up during the job ("looks like that pipe is rusted out, sir. that will cost an extra $125 to fix.")


Sounds like you should open your own business. I like Uber because it frees me from all the nonsense that being an employee causes. It's not perfect but it beats punching a time clock and having to work certain days and times. Been there done that.



Elephant said:


> Those who don't want to be employee they can always quit.There are enough ants in the market who want to be employee.


Agreed with first sentence totally.


----------



## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

uberdriverfornow said:


> nah, instead of going and digging a hole and burying our heads in it like you, we'd rather stand up for ourselves


Who is "we", you and your tapeworm? I can stand up for *myself*. I am perfectly capable of filing an arb claim if and when I have to, pro se. I would even enjoy that as I need a new hobby.

What I don't want is other people claiming to stand up for me but doing something counterproductive. Like any politician.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jon Stoppable said:


> Who is "we", you and your tapeworm? I can stand up for *myself*. I am perfectly capable of filing an arb claim if and when I have to, pro se. I would even enjoy that as I need a new hobby.
> 
> What I don't want is other people claiming to stand up for me but doing something counterproductive. Like any politician.


Amen !


----------



## Poopy54 (Sep 6, 2016)

AB5 not only affects drivers, but many other people too....Lots of people out of jobs now.

A friend of mine who is a translator for 20+ years, is now jobless, she worked as an IC and now everyone she worked for cant use her


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Poopy54 said:


> AB5 not only affects drivers, but many other people too....Lots of people out of jobs now.
> 
> A friend of mine who is a translator for 20+ years, is now jobless, she worked as an IC and now everyone she worked for cant use her


So what do you think about it ?


----------



## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

SHalester said:


> A great many who want AB5 are clueless about what being a employee really really means. It is not rainbows and honey.


This nails it on the head.

-Instant Pay- gone. 
-You'll be able to drive for 6-8 hours max and that will include your in between trip time.
-Acceptance rate requirements will likely be 90-100% because we can't say no. 
-The concept of surge, ppz, quest, boost, and streaks will never exist again. You be paid by the hour like a bus driver. 
-Nobody will get full time OR overtime. You'll be able to work 28-30 hours a week so they don't have to provide benefits. 
-Imagine what your income now looks like with 30% missing for taxes and another 30% for all the expenses of maintaining a employee workforce. And you won't get to see it till a week from Friday..........

You jokers who wanted this are gonna be the first to bail out to a new career after you f'ed the rest of us.

I'm tempted to move to this lady's district so I can vote against her.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Jon Stoppable said:


> Who is "we", you and your tapeworm? I can stand up for *myself*. I am perfectly capable of filing an arb claim if and when I have to, pro se. I would even enjoy that as I need a new hobby.
> 
> What I don't want is other people claiming to stand up for me but doing something counterproductive. Like any politician.


You already admitted you don't stand up for anything and will just move on when Uber cuts rates below minimum wage/poverty.

Can't backtrack now. Sorry.



Deadmiler69 said:


> This nails it on the head.
> 
> -Instant Pay- gone.
> -You'll be able to drive for 6-8 hours max and that will include your in between trip time.
> ...


Nah, a union contract will negotiate good pay, good health and dental benefits, protection against false accusations/termination, among many other benefits. This will all kick in when Uber loses their lawsuit.

Don't worry, there will be many drivers that will fight for benefits even if you don't care about benefits or will simply go bury your head in the sand when Uber screws you over.



Poopy54 said:


> AB5 not only affects drivers, but many other people too....Lots of people out of jobs now.
> 
> A friend of mine who is a translator for 20+ years, is now jobless, she worked as an IC and now everyone she worked for cant use her


Out of jobs until they find another company that chooses not to exploit them.


----------



## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

uberdriverfornow said:


> You already admitted you don't stand up for anything and will just move on when Uber cuts rates below minimum wage/poverty.
> 
> Can't backtrack now. Sorry.
> 
> ...


That concept works when the entire union wants the same thing. Drivers are almost all unique in why they drive. Forcing them all into Union regulations because a small group of you weren't good enough to survive this gig full time is unfair.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Deadmiler69 said:


> That concept works when the entire union wants the same thing. Drivers are almost all unique in why they drive. Forcing them all into Union regulations because a small group of you weren't good enough to survive this gig full time is unfair.


lol union regulations, wtf are "union regulations" ? &#128514;&#128514;


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Poopy54 said:


> AB5 not only affects drivers, but many other people too....Lots of people out of jobs now.
> 
> A friend of mine who is a translator for 20+ years, is now jobless, she worked as an IC and now everyone she worked for cant use her





Deadmiler69 said:


> That concept works when the entire union wants the same thing. Drivers are almost all unique in why they drive. Forcing them all into Union regulations because a small group of you weren't good enough to survive this gig full time is unfair.


I agree with you. I do think the IC status haters go beyond just ex full timers.


----------



## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lol union regulations, wtf are "union regulations" ? &#128514;&#128514;


So you think that a Union is going to come in and NOT ask for dues? That they'll be able to negotiate the same pay I have now but still give me PTO and health benefits from a publicly traded company that has never produced a profit?

IF they are miraculously able to pull that off, do you think they will agree to allow us to work how we do now? You can't possibly believe that?

The number one reason almost any driver tells you they drive is for the flexibility. Unions are amazing tools to protect industry and I'm a huge supporter of many of them. But they are not and never have been a way to increase the flexibility of the independent worker. I'm going to go from zero bosses to a minimum of two bosses when this happens. First I'll be beholden to the rules and regulations of a very broad ranging union that doesn't specialize in rideshare and answer to the boss there. Once I do what they say, I'll have to answer to my Uber boss.

All that stuff costs money that doesn't exist.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Deadmiler69 said:


> So you think that a Union is going to come in and NOT ask for dues? That they'll be able to negotiate the same pay I have now but still give me PTO and health benefits from a publicly traded company that has never produced a profit?
> 
> IF they are miraculously able to pull that off, do you think they will agree to allow us to work how we do now? You can't possibly believe that?
> 
> ...


I, and any other driver, will proudly pay union dues so that union workers will NOT be working for free because, unlike you, other drivers do not want anyone working for free.

Everyone should get paid for their work.


----------



## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

uberdriverfornow said:


> I, and any other driver, will proudly pay union dues so that union workers will NOT be working for free because, unlike you, other drivers do not want anyone working for free.
> 
> Everyone should get paid for their work.


Who is working for free? I've never NOT been paid for a ride.


----------



## Mtbsrfun (May 25, 2019)

_*DAYUUUUUMMMM*_


----------



## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

Cuz we needed that many of the same dream crushing smirk.....😂😂


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Deadmiler69 said:


> Who is working for free? I've never NOT been paid for a ride.


Union workers don't work for free, even if you wish you could force them to.



Deadmiler69 said:


> Cuz we needed that many of the same dream crushing smirk.....&#128514;&#128514;


Yeah, crushing the dreams of drivers that are getting paid more in CA as a result of.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/in-c...k-no-rate-cut-i-must-be-seeing-things.371717/


----------



## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Union workers don't work for free, even if you wish you could force them to.
> 
> 
> Yeah, crushing dreams of drivers that are getting paid more in CA as a result of.


Have you read a thread recently? Almost everyone is complaining about making LESS money since the change. I'm about the same but all I see is people complaining how slow it's been. So I'm sure those folks are gonna jump right on board with forking over some more $$ to a Union boss who will live in a mansion with a Benz while we are all still exactly where we are.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Deadmiler69 said:


> Have you read a thread recently? Almost everyone is complaining about making LESS money since the change. I'm about the same but all I see is people complaining how slow it's been. So I'm sure those folks are gonna jump right on board with forking over some more $$ to a Union boss who will live in a mansion with a Benz while we are all still exactly where we are.


lmao nobody is saying they are making less...on min trips drivers probably arent making more but on anything above min trips drivers are 100% making more because of the percentage cap

you can cry all you want about union workers earning a living but there aren't many people out there crying about people making a living and getting paid for it


----------



## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lmao nobody is saying they are making less...on min trips drivers probably arent making more but on anything above min trips drivers are 100% making more because of the percentage cap
> 
> you can cry all you want about union workers earning a living but there aren't many people out there crying about people making a living and getting paid for it


I'm actually a fan of unions. For teachers. Who all have the same job working the same basic hours in an industry that has plenty of $$ for administration jobs but nothing for classrooms.

Other industries as well. Nurses, construction, hotels, etc.......But not for rideshare. Too many different types of drivers doing it for too many different reasons. We are given the tools and the ability to make a livable wage. Whether or not you as a driver can educate yourself on how to do that is not reason enough to subject us all the the rule of a union. We were never promised a career. That's why there's no interview no oversight no micro manger no drug test. Just a background check and license along with $400 gets you a gig that pays daily.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Deadmiler69 said:


> I'm actually a fan of unions. For teachers. Who all have the same job working the same basic hours in an industry that has plenty of $$ for administration jobs but nothing for classrooms.
> 
> Other industries as well. Nurses, construction, hotels, etc.......But not for rideshare. Too many different types of drivers doing it for too many different reasons. We are given the tools and the ability to make a livable wage. Whether or not you as a driver can educate yourself on how to do that is not reason enough to subject us all the the rule of a union. We were never promised a career. That's why there's no interview no oversight no micro manger no drug test. Just a background check and license along with $400 gets you a gig that pays daily.


lol now you're a fan of unions ? &#128514;&#128514;

it's amazing the about face you did on unions in a span of a few hours &#128514;


----------



## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lol now you're a fan of unions ? &#128514;&#128514;
> 
> it's amazing the about face you did on unions in a span of a few hours &#128514;


You must have the wrong person in mind. Also your reading comprehension skills appear to be equivalent to that of an eight year old so I certainly am NOT trusting anything you say about unions.


----------



## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1227666585180987392
http://
https://seiu721.salsalabs.org/laxhygiene2020/index.html


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Deadmiler69 said:


> So you think that a Union is going to come in and NOT ask for dues? That they'll be able to negotiate the same pay I have now but still give me PTO and health benefits from a publicly traded company that has never produced a profit?
> 
> IF they are miraculously able to pull that off, do you think they will agree to allow us to work how we do now? You can't possibly believe that?
> 
> ...





Deadmiler69 said:


> So you think that a Union is going to come in and NOT ask for dues? That they'll be able to negotiate the same pay I have now but still give me PTO and health benefits from a publicly traded company that has never produced a profit?
> 
> IF they are miraculously able to pull that off, do you think they will agree to allow us to work how we do now? You can't possibly believe that?
> 
> ...


Really outstanding well thought o


Deadmiler69 said:


> So you think that a Union is going to come in and NOT ask for dues? That they'll be able to negotiate the same pay I have now but still give me PTO and health benefits from a publicly traded company that has never produced a profit?
> 
> IF they are miraculously able to pull that off, do you think they will agree to allow us to work how we do now? You can't possibly believe that?
> 
> ...


Outstanding


Elephant said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1227666585180987392
> http://
> https://seiu721.salsalabs.org/laxhygiene2020/index.html


I will pass on viewing !


----------



## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

*Strippers And Giggers: Unionize Now*
https://medium.com/pulpmag/strippers-and-giggers-unionize-now-29bbec7f795b


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Elephant said:


> *Strippers And Giggers: Unionize Now*
> https://medium.com/pulpmag/strippers-and-giggers-unionize-now-29bbec7f795b


So I can moon light as a male stripper awesome.


----------



## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> So I can moon light as a male stripper awesome.


I'd probably put 3 months serious work in the gym first. Competition is pretty hot. Wouldn't hurt to learn how to use a pole either.


----------



## Poopy54 (Sep 6, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> So what do you think about it ?


The new law hasn't effected us yet here in CA as drivers, because it really isn't in force as of now.... but it has effected many others that are IC


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Elephant said:


> *Strippers And Giggers: Unionize Now*
> https://medium.com/pulpmag/strippers-and-giggers-unionize-now-29bbec7f795b





Poopy54 said:


> The new law hasn't effected us yet here in CA as drivers, because it really isn't in force as of now.... but it has effected many others that are IC


In good or bad way ?



Jimmy44 said:


> In good or bad way ?


Somthing tells me in a bad way.


----------



## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

Jimmy44 said:


> Lorena Gonzales is the assemblywoman responsible for AB5. *I am sure she is a nice person* but when it comes to rideshare she does not have a clue. The things she wants rideshare companys to be responsible for is ludicrous.


lawyers aren't known for being nice.



Jon Stoppable said:


> We are employee/IC hybrids and the law should recognize as such. Pure IC would mean drivers bidding for trips like auctions on eBay. Pure employee would mean scheduled shifts. I prefer the status quo.


imo this guy gets it. we are a hybrid, we need to create a new standard that applies to rideshare drivers and other gig workers like us as it is a new concept. we need a way to unionize. no way a lawyer who never drove should be representing us. she doesn't understand our plight.



uberdriverfornow said:


> ya she should be ashamed of herself for going out of her way to give drivers benefits they have never had before nor would they ever have had without her help
> 
> great "news" article you posted here as well


don't fool yourself, she's in it for herself.



Deadmiler69 said:


> So you think that a Union is going to come in and NOT ask for dues? That they'll be able to negotiate the same pay I have now but still give me PTO and health benefits from a publicly traded company that has never produced a profit?
> 
> IF they are miraculously able to pull that off, do you think they will agree to allow us to work how we do now? You can't possibly believe that?
> 
> ...


ab5 is not about union regulation, it's about state law.

unions are EXACTLY what we need - collective bargaining. not state law. bc of the way it's setup, no picket line to cross, the only help we may need from our governors/mayors will be to shut U/L down in their regions if they don't comply with reasonable negotiations. the negotiations would happen between the local union reps and U/L. so long as U/L doesn't cross the line and get overly greedy (ie 80 cents/mile down to 60 cents/mile and taking more than 25% of the total pax payment, or as we call it - the straws that broke the camels back) then there wouldn't seem to be a need to negotiate for a very long time.

2% dues is well worth the protection of our bottom lines. drop in the bucket compared to the rate cuts and taking more than 25%.


----------



## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

got a p said:


> lawyers aren't known for being nice.
> 
> 
> imo this guy gets it. we are a hybrid, we need to create a new standard that applies to rideshare drivers and other gig workers like us as it is a new concept. we need a way to unionize. no way a lawyer who never drove should be representing us. she doesn't understand our plight.
> ...


You jokers always twist the stats to make it sound like we are being screwed. You only bring up the hours drivers make less than minimum. Nobody ever talks about the other hours where they might make $60-100 in an hour.

Same with rates. You only talk about mileage rate drop of 25% but don't mention the time increase of 80-100%. It's always selective garbage to make your point sound important.

How about the 80% of drivers that do this less than 20 hours a week. Why on earth would they give up another 2% for some fat cat lawyer in the union to buy another boat.

You've been sold a terrible lie my friend. Nobody is going to give you anything close to what we have right now if we become employees. We literally will be tiny bus drivers without uniforms (which they could actually start doing)


----------



## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

Deadmiler69 said:


> You jokers always twist the stats to make it sound like we are being screwed. You only bring up the hours drivers make less than minimum. Nobody ever talks about the other hours where they might make $60-100 in an hour.
> 
> Same with rates. You only talk about mileage rate drop of 25% but don't mention the time increase of 80-100%. It's always selective garbage to make your point sound important.
> 
> ...


say hi to dara for us. how is it working for an uber troll factory - did the russians not need you anymore? :woot:

ps - anyone with a basic understanding of math realizes that a trip that goes 100 miles and takes 120 minutes before the cut is $92, after the rate change it is $84... assuming the time increase is 100%, it was around a 10% pay cut, depending if the time rate went up 80% or 100%. ofc a ride like that is rare i just choose 100 miles and 2 hours bc the number are simple. they are preying on folks who aren't good at math. a surge ride that charges the passenger $100 should pay the driver $75 not $50. i'm sure passengers will be on our side in that matter. on a $9 min fare ride right now drivers are getting $3.75, uber is taking almost 60% of every min fare ride - fact.

at the end of the year this could equate to $10,000 or more to a full time driver, and may well be the difference between living month to month and being able to save some money. anyone who works full time should be able to do if they are living a middle class life, this is a middle class job after all. the cost of living is going up, and drivers who deal with dangerous conditions and are responsible for the safety of themselves and their passengers deserve to be paid as such. btw did you know an uber driver is twice as likely to be killed on the job as a police officer?

edit - it seems you don't know much about unions. 2% to get rid of a 10-20% pay cut again is simple math. not to mention that money goes towards various benefits - from unemployment insurance to credit unions to representation in cases of wrongful termination to the biggest part - getting 75% of the ride and rates that can help a corporation make money and provide the driver with a modest, middle class living.

now if uber can't stop hemorraging money thats on them, i will gladly sift through their wasteful spending and make them profitable. would not be hard at all in fact, especially with the enormous losses they can write off. they choose to hemmorage money, this is a fact. everyone wants to be the next jeff bezos. their greed is not our problem. we are simply seeking to be earn a modest, middle class living for 50 hours a week. without us they would not exist - fact.

ps. i'm not talking about being an employee - i'm talking about thinktanking how to form a union for the rideshare industry. again, say hi to dara and everyone else at corporate for us! tell him negotiating with the rideshare drivers directly through the regional union reps is better for uber than being forced into bankruptcy by state employment laws. it's looking like one or the other is inevitable. ball's in your court.


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## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

got a p said:


> say hi to dara for us. how is it working for an uber troll factory - did the russians not need you anymore? :woot:
> 
> ps - anyone with a basic understanding of math realizes that a trip that goes 100 miles and takes 120 minutes before the cut is $92, after the rate change it is $84... assuming the time increase is 100%, it was around a 10% pay cut, depending if the time rate went up 80% or 100%. they are preying on folks who aren't good at math. a surge ride that charges the passenger $100 should pay the driver $75 not $50. i'm sure passengers will be on our side in that matter. ofc a ride like that is rare i just choose 100 miles and 2 hours bc the number are simple. on a $9 min fare ride right now drivers are getting $3.75, uber is taking almost 60% of every min fare ride - fact.
> 
> ...


Just so many typed words to say nothing. Again your numbers skewed to your argument.

Will you be prepared to give back all the $$ Uber paid to you when they charged the rider $7 flat fares but paid you $15-20 on it?

Uber is not NOT profitable because of their way of doing business. It's not profitable because of the exponential potential of profits across all their technology platforms down the road. It's using rideshare a RnD tool to develop so much more.

You don't have to work for Dara or be a shill to see this. You just have to have a reasonable expectation of what someone should be paid for driving people around.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

Deadmiler69 said:


> Just so many typed words to say nothing. Again your numbers skewed to your argument.
> 
> Will you be prepared to give back all the $$ Uber paid to you when they charged the rider $7 flat fares but paid you $15-20 on it?
> 
> ...


i'll tell you what - uber corporate troll farm employee - i will do the math on what they paid me vs what the pax paid for all of 2019 and i will post the true % they took for the entire year. it will be between 35%-50%+ GUARANTEED!

now go say hi to dara, ubers ceo, for us. your lies are not welcome on this drivers forum.

uber is not profitable because of their over the top expansionism and their greedy want to have self driving cars on the road long before they are safe to be there. their greed is what has led to the problems they now face, nothing more.


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## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

got a p said:


> i'll tell you what - uber corporate troll farm employee - i will do the math on what they paid me vs what the pax paid for all of 2019 and i will post the true % they took for the entire year. it will be between 35%-50%+ GUARANTEED!
> 
> now go say hi to dara, ubers ceo, for us. your lies are not welcome on this drivers forum.
> 
> uber is not profitable because of their over the top expansionism and their greedy want to have self driving cars on the road long before they are safe to be there. their greed is what has led to the problems they now face, nothing more.


Here's the thing though.........I can make a decent living off of 50 hours. Those who cannot need to adjust their game plan in order to do so or get out of the game.

Never once did Uber ever promise me I'd be able to support a family or retirement off this. They gave me an opportunity to go make $$ 24 hours a day at my choosing with no boss/interview/oversight. Choosing to do this requires some effort but many if not most of us are doing quite well at it. Don't make your life failures Uber's responsibility


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

you sure about that? uber came out swinging saying earn $70k/year driving uber. that should be enough for anyone who is not wasteful with their money to get by on. heck with $70k a year you can get a mortgage and support a family.

ps - you dont make $24/hr. subtract maintenance/gas/tax/full 15% self employment tax and what do you get? wanna see some videos of single mother uber drivers getting t-boned and killed by drunk drivers? want to talk to their orphaned kids about it? what's the biggest danger you face working for uber corporate....a paper cut?

say hi to dara for us! :woot:


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## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

*Amazon Flex drivers are using bots to cheat their way to getting more work*

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/02/09...-get-more-work.html?__twitter_impression=true


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## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

got a p said:


> you sure about that? uber came out swinging saying earn $70k/year driving uber. that should be enough for anyone who is not wasteful with their money to get by on. heck with $70k a year you can get a mortgage and support a family.
> 
> ps - you dont make $24/hr. subtract maintenance/gas/tax/full 15% self employment tax and what do you get? wanna see some videos of single mother uber drivers getting t-boned and killed by drunk drivers? want to talk to their orphaned kids about it? what's the biggest danger you face working for uber corporate....a paper cut?
> 
> say hi to dara for us! :woot:


I make more than $24 after taking out all those things. More than likely you'll embellish those numbers to make yourself look poor to get your point across. And probably you and many drivers are terrible at controlling your costs.

You also assume that Uber will be able to give you all the great negotiated "benefits" of OT and PTO and 401k without having to lower the rates we currently get. Yet I'm the one who is bad at math.

The Union folks got a mere 100 of 30,000 California rideshare drivers to join their big demand. That's less than 1%. Why? Because most of us are fine.

Would I like to see some better protections from deactivations? Absolutely but you don't need a Union for that.

Don't forget we ate like fat cats for many years, it's okay to give a little back.



got a p said:


> i'll tell you what - uber corporate troll farm employee - i will do the math on what they paid me vs what the pax paid for all of 2019 and i will post the true % they took for the entire year. it will be between 35%-50%+ GUARANTEED!


This just shows me you don't know how to read T&C's. From day 1 Uber has always gotten more than the 75% through what is now called the marketplace fee. It was a safe rider fee, safety fee and booking fee previously.

I as an educated drive have always known that and accepted it so I don't have to learn how to code an app and market my car.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

so you, uber corporate troll farm employee, joined on jan 11th this year and your alternate uber corporate troll account @Jimmy44 was created by you the next day. you use you alt account to "like" your @Deadmiler69 account's posts. :woot:

not too smart troll. i know you think drivers are subhuman and bad at math (or investigating trolls), sorry but we are not as stupid as you hoped we are. you made a tragically stupid blunder and now are exposed.

say hi to dara for us!


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## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

got a p said:


> so you, uber corporate troll farm employee, joined on jan 11th this year and your alternate uber corporate troll account @Jimmy44 was created by you the next day. you use you alt account to "like" your @Deadmiler69 account's posts. :woot:
> 
> not too smart troll. i know you think drivers are subhuman and bad at math (or investigating trolls), sorry but we are not as stupid as you hoped we are. you made a tragically stupid blunder and now are exposed.
> 
> say hi to dara for us!


None of that is true. I think your tinfoil hat is misfiring......


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Would it surprise anyone that Uber & Lyft drivers have a union, at least in New York City? Founded in 1998, the New York Taxi Workers Alliance is the 21,000-member strong union of yellow taxi, green cab, App-based, livery, and corporate black car drivers. In 2011, they became an AFL-CIO affiliate. 
https://www.nytwa.org/

Here is their benefits and services flyer. https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...9/Membership+Benefits+and+Services+9.9.18.pdf

It seems their most recent success is in encouraging NYC to cap the number of drivers and to force U/L to reduce the empty time of their vehicles from 41% to 31%. That's good if you're one of the lucky ones to be in under the cap number and lucky enough to be able to stay full. Its not so good for everyone else, including prospective new drivers, pax, and U/L.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Deadmiler69 said:


> Here's the thing though.........I can make a decent living off of 50 hours. Those who cannot need to adjust their game plan in order to do so or get out of the game.
> 
> Never once did Uber ever promise me I'd be able to support a family or retirement off this. They gave me an opportunity to go make $$ 24 hours a day at my choosing with no boss/interview/oversight. Choosing to do this requires some effort but many if not most of us are doing quite well at it. Don't make your life failures Uber's responsibility


ya because they haven't cut your rates like those in the markets that got their rates cut to ONLY 35 CENTS A MILE

You have 0 benefits whatsoever. Uber can fire you tomorrow because some chump decided to say you assaulted them. And you got 0 benefits when you get fired. You got no recourse.

Stop thinking that Uber is your friend and that they will never do anything bad to you. Stop living in your fake utopian world where you and Uber are singing koombaya.



got a p said:


> lawyers aren't known for being nice.
> 
> 
> imo this guy gets it. we are a hybrid, we need to create a new standard that applies to rideshare drivers and other gig workers like us as it is a new concept. we need a way to unionize. no way a lawyer who never drove should be representing us. she doesn't understand our plight.
> ...


what Lorena is doing is helping workers, directly helping drivers and you want to cry about her ?

if she was passing laws that benefit Uber who do you think would be donating to her campaign ? Uber would be

Is what she's doing benefitting herself as well to some extent ? OF COURSE

Is there anyone that goes around helping other people without ever doing anything that benefits themselves ? NO so stop crying or trying to spin it Uber-shill-style unless you are a shill


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

got a p said:


> this is a middle class job after all.
> 
> the cost of living is going up, and drivers who deal with dangerous conditions and are responsible for the safety of themselves and their passengers deserve to be paid as such. btw did you know an uber driver is twice as likely to be killed on the job as a police officer?
> 
> ...


Very interesting discussion but driving a car doesn't qualify us as middle class.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

whats the definition of middle class to you?


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> I did not make the claim you did. I just asked you to name a few. I think they treat me as an independent contractor in every way.


So, just one. Have you or any U driver ever negotiated price or any other condition! For five years have you ever heard that U call any of its contractor and talked about job condition! NEVER Even today in Ca we can see money, distance and destination. But you have 4seconds to make decision in crowded SF downtown! Lorena Gonsales Congres women is a person with high moral and ethical standards. She knows what's her duty and She does here's job.



everythingsuber said:


> Lorena as lovely as she is should probably only have one thread &#128522;
> 
> View attachment 414473


Respect


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Polomarko said:


> So, just one. Have you or any U driver ever negotiated price or any other condition! For five years have you ever heard that U call any of its contractor and talked about job condition! NEVER Even today in Ca we can see money, distance and destination. But you have 4seconds to make decision in crowded SF downtown!


As an IC I agree to use an app to generate income. I accept the terms and conditions of the app. I can either use it or not use of my own free will.



Jimmy44 said:


> As an IC I agree to use an app to generate income. I accept the terms and conditions of the app. I can either use it or not use of my own free will.


Why would U contact me to discuss job conditions when I don't have a job with them.



Jimmy44 said:


> As an IC I agree to use an app to generate income. I accept the terms and conditions of the app. I can either use it or not use of my own free will.
> 
> 
> Why would U contact me to discuss job conditions when I don't have a job with them.


Negotiating prices with riders durring rush hour now that would work great. Really ?


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

lol this guy is still posting? i guess he has to save face. @Polomarko this guy (Richard44) works for uber, he has at least one alt screen name Deadmile69. don't worry about him, he's working for ubers troll farm, they have been called out in the past for posting anti-driver misinformation here. no doubt they create accounts for facebook groups and post on uber articles etc...par for the course for a multibillion dollar company that is facing serious problems in california atm. tbh imo there should be more of them on this site, if i ran a troll farm i would definitely have my troll-employees post more than they are. and they would be better trained so they don't get caught, which just happened last night. scroll up.

he said "*Don't forget we ate like fat cats for many years, it's okay to give a little back*. " on the last page using his alt sn. ask yourself does that sound like something ANY driver would ever say? yes Richard44 and Deadmile69 are one and the same person working for uber corporate. he's pretty low iq as well, makes a lot of mistakes.


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## rmmillerjr (Nov 26, 2019)

Next she’ll be wanting Uber to give Free College Tuition to all of its drivers... Damn Commies!


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Absolutely love it !!!


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

rmmillerjr said:


> Next she'll be wanting Uber to give Free College Tuition to all of its drivers... Damn Commies!


nice first post! not sure if you are part of Richard44/Deamile69's team but wtg calling gonzales a commie, you brave man! :woot:

Richard44/Deadmile69 is flustered now. he needs to save face so that would mean posting in a way that makes him seem like a driver, lol. i discovered a new flaw in his multiaccounting but i'll keep him guessing about what it is &#129322; if i was his boss i wouldn't even pay him the minimum wage he's earning, he would be fired due to incompetence and lack of IQ. college degrees mean nothing if you're naturally dumb.


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## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

got a p said:


> nice first post! not sure if you are part of Richard44/Deamile69's team but wtg calling gonzales a commie, you brave man! :woot:
> 
> Richard44/Deadmile69 is flustered now. he needs to save face so that would mean posting in a way that makes him seem like a driver, lol. i discovered a new flaw in his multiaccounting but i'll keep him guessing about what it is &#129322; if i was his boss i wouldn't even pay him the minimum wage he's earning, he would be fired due to incompetence and lack of IQ. college degrees mean nothing if you're naturally dumb.


You should open a window in your Moms basement. I think the mold might be getting to you.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

you liked your own post pretty quickly there. if you want people to believe you're a driver you really need to....forget it you should be fired there's no hope for you. go flip burgers or be a secretary. trolling apparently is too high a skill set for you.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Deadmiler69 said:


> You should open a window in your Moms basement. I think the mold might be getting to you.


Great reply ! That is exactly my image and thought as well. You just beat me to it.


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## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Great reply ! That is exactly my image and thought as well. You just beat me to it.


Duh cuz we are THE SAME PERSON!!!! &#128514;&#128514;


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

I've worked a union job on the employee side and I've spent many years in management on the company side.

I've seen both sides.

Some companies have too much power and need to be checked.

Uber/Lyft have too much power.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> I've worked a union job on the employee side and I've spent many years in management on the company side.
> 
> I've seen both sides.
> 
> ...


You seem like a very fair individual with lots of experience negotiating from both sides. I respect that and the way you responded in a calm and respectful manner.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way but that experience has nothing to do with the relationship between uber and the App users.
Again I mean no offense I am simply stating a fact.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> You seem like a very fair individual with lots of experience negotiating from both sides. I respect that and the way you responded in a calm and respectful manner.
> I hope you don't take this the wrong way but that experience has nothing to do with the relationship between uber and the App users.
> Again I mean no offense I am simply stating a fact.


Maybe not but I can tell when a company is abusing its workers.

What worries me most is not Uber/Lyft but the example they are setting for other companies and how they can get away with breaking laws because they have the money to pay off legislators or the public through referendums.

The real battle here isn't for Uber/Lyft drivers. The real battle is for all those future employees in California that companies will turn in to *gig* workers.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

got a p said:


> whats the definition of middle class to you?


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/08/us/what-is-middle-class-in-california.html
she estimates a middle class income in Los Angeles County for a family of four that rents a home to be between $65,030 and $227,605.

For that same family, a middle class income in the Central Valley and Sierra region, a swath stretching from Calaveras County to Kern County, is between $52,762 and $184,666.

In the Inland Empire, a middle income for that family would be between $60,336 and $211,177. In Orange County, those numbers are $71,920 to $251,722.

And in the Bay Area the range is $74,750 to $261,623.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Deadmiler69 said:


> Duh cuz we are THE SAME PERSON!!!! &#128514;&#128514;


Next time try to not be so obvious.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> Maybe not but I can tell when a company is abusing its workers.
> 
> What worries me most is not Uber/Lyft but the example they are setting for other companies and how they can get away with breaking laws because they have the money to pay off legislators or the public through referendums.
> 
> The real battle here isn't for Uber/Lyft drivers. The real battle is for all those future employees in California that companies will turn in to *gig* workers.


We are not Ubers workers. Maybe my app and arrangement with Uber is different then others. I am an IC that uses Ubers app for income.
They may bend laws but do not break them.
With AB5 workers and politicians are changing laws to fit there needs as well.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> We are not Ubers workers. Maybe my app and arrangement with Uber is different then others. I am an IC that uses Ubers app for income.
> They may bend laws but do not break them.
> With AB5 workers and politicians are changing laws to fit there needs as well.


Of course you are Ubers worker, notice I didn't say employee or independent contractor.

There is a difference between the three.

Uber has broken MANY laws over the years. The only reason they got so big is their money.

They have ALWAYS said laws don't apply to us because we are an app.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

I don’t know who she is , but going to guess that she is a typical NY, Chicago, or Cal political hack. Let’s see her families finances to start with👍


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## Buck-a-mile (Nov 2, 2019)

The gig economy companies are trying to negate 100 years of Labor Union hard fought Labor laws.

Screw 'em, they're screwing us.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

goneubering said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/08/us/what-is-middle-class-in-california.html
> she estimates a middle class income in Los Angeles County for a family of four that rents a home to be between $65,030 and $227,605.
> 
> For that same family, a middle class income in the Central Valley and Sierra region, a swath stretching from Calaveras County to Kern County, is between $52,762 and $184,666.
> ...


those numbers are actually an indication of the destruction of the middle class in california if you read between the lines. california used to be a middle class paradise, now it's slaves and slave-owners. and the slaves all together triumphantly declaring "we are the 5th largest economy in the world!" &#129318;‍♂ people working two full time jobs just so they can pay the rent with no opportunity to own their house and land, barely getting to spend time with their family, while the fat cats piss on them and tell them it's raining.

hopefully we can keep that mentality out of real america where the middle class still represents a large portion of the population.


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## Deadmiler69 (Jan 11, 2020)

got a p said:


> those numbers are actually an indication of the destruction of the middle class in california if you read between the lines. california used to be a middle class paradise, now it's slaves and slave-owners. and the slaves all together triumphantly declaring "we are the 5th largest economy in the world!" &#129318;‍♂ people working two full time jobs just so they can pay the rent with no opportunity to own their house and land, barely getting to spend time with their family, while the fat cats piss on them and tell them it's raining.
> 
> hopefully we can keep that mentality out of real america where the middle class still represents a large portion of the population.


Jimmy44 and I disagree.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)




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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> I did not make the claim you did. I just asked you to name a few. I think they treat me as an independent contractor in every way.


Dude, you need to sit down, take notes and STFU.
I was trying very hard to give you a pass as a newbie trying to find your way on UP.

I deal with Corporate Contracts and Agreements daily and have excellent command of what it takes to accommodate all parties represented within the four corners of a document.

Mista T also eloquently laid it out & it couldn't be more clear.

Drivers are Called IC's but are nowhere near that. If you recall, uber used to call drivers "partners" of all things.

Partners generally have some say just as IC's. Currently drivers have to adhere to rules set by Uber and must agree to components of an agreement they often disagree with but agree in order to login.

If "you" consider yourself an IC maybe it's because you lack understanding insofar as what that "actually" means vs. the way ridesharing presents it.

If you Sir, are satisfied with being categorized as something you're not, you ARE absolutely part of the problem insofar as mindset of drivers.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> Of course you are Ubers worker, notice I didn't say employee or independent contractor.
> 
> There is a difference between the three.
> 
> ...


The people who work in the Uber office in SF are Uber workers. I pay uber not the other way around.


Buck-a-mile said:


> The gig economy companies are trying to negate 100 years of Labor Union hard fought Labor laws.
> 
> Screw 'em, they're screwing us.


I don't agree with you but respect your opinion. 
As far as screw'em I prefer to say use them to benefit your situation. Role with the punches. When they zig you zag.


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## Buck-a-mile (Nov 2, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> The people who work in the Uber office in SF are Uber workers. I pay uber not the other way around.
> 
> I don't agree with you but respect your opinion.
> As far as screw'em I prefer to say use them to benefit your situation. Role with the punches. When they zig you zag.


Let us know how that works out for you.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

IR12 said:


> Dude, you need to sit down, take notes and STFU with that BS.
> I was trying very hard to give you a pass as a newbie trying to find your way
> 
> I deal with Corporate Contracts and Agreements daily and have excellent command of what it takes to accommodate all parties represented within the four corners of a document.
> ...


I can live with that. I am not out to win a popularity contest.



Buck-a-mile said:


> Let us know how that works out for you.


Actually I am doing well. I made changes that have helped deal with the current app.


----------



## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

IR12 said:


> Dude, you need to sit down, take notes and STFU with that BS.
> I was trying very hard to give you a pass as a newbie trying to find your way
> 
> I deal with Corporate Contracts and Agreements daily and have excellent command of what it takes to accommodate all parties represented within the four corners of a document.
> ...


dont worry about Deamiler69/Jimmy44. two screen names - just one guy. he's already been outed as an uber troll employee.

but to reply to your comment i think observer said it best when he said we are "workers" for uber/lyft, not employees or IC's. we are kind of a hybrid of the two, it's a new way of working and we need to assess how best to create workers rights as "gig" working is becoming a large part of the work force. it's time to create new unions for the different forms of gig working. been about 100 years since unions in america came to be as a response to "why pay a man $1/hour when you can pay a child 10cents/hour"










we want our 75% back. we don't care about our partner ubers greedy aspirations, we want what's ours. our parnter has gone crazy with greed. i just had a drunk guy threaten to "unload his entire clip in my car" we EARN our pay, which includes the hazards we have to handle. what dangers do our partners, the whitecollars at uber/lyft corporate in san francisco have to deal with, getting a paper cut? why do you think rideshare drivers are twice as likely to be killed on the job as a police officer? middle class money for middle class work.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Mista T said:


> Without regulations, rideshare continues to victimize the ignorant and flaunt the laws.


If they are flaunting existing rules, the answer seems to be in enforcement thereof and not in creating even more rules for them to ignore.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

got a p said:


> but to reply to your comment i think observer said it best when he said we are "workers" for uber/lyft, not employees or IC's. we are kind of a hybrid of the two, it's a new way of working and we need to assess how best to create workers rights as "gig" working is becoming a large part of the work force. it's time to create new unions for the different forms of gig working.


I think I coined the hybrid term, but I agree with this. I don't know exactly how to do it though. My worry is that opportunist politicians will try to cram the square peg of gig work into the round hole of employee labor law and declare it a victory and seek reelection, all while the law of unintended consequences bites us in the ass.

So CA, you break it until it's fixed, then *maybe* the rest of the country will figure out what actually works. Or maybe not ...

I need to write a bit about how tax law provides a special status for RS that can effectively make our after-tax hourly rate higher than an a typical service-industry employee. Or in some rarer cases, lower. But I'm short of time at the moment, so that will have to wait.


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Jon Stoppable said:


> I think I coined the hybrid term, but I agree with this. I don't know exactly how to do it though. My worry is that opportunist politicians will try to cram the square peg of gig work into the round hole of employee labor law and declare it a victory and seek reelection, all while the law of unintended consequences bites us in the ass.
> 
> So CA, you break it until it's fixed, then *maybe* the rest of the country will figure out what actually works. Or maybe not ...
> 
> I need to write a bit about how tax law provides a special status for RS that can effectively make our after-tax hourly rate higher than an a typical service-industry employee. Or in some rarer cases, lower. But I'm short of time at the moment, so that will have to wait.


100% agree. Driver's have all the power but are too busy chasing peanuts to do what it takes to hold ridesharing accountable & take home better money.

OTOH, politicians have sold out and don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. 
Since many drivers don't vote they're not even considered a serious voting block.
Imagine that.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Trafficat said:


> If they are flaunting existing rules, the answer seems to be in enforcement thereof and not in creating even more rules for them to ignore.


Yes. They are spitting on AB5 which makes me believe it does not have a snowballs chance in hell.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> The people who work in the Uber office in SF are Uber workers. I pay uber not the other way around.


lol you "pay Uber" exactly how ?



Jimmy44 said:


> Yes. They are spitting on AB5 which makes me believe it does not have a snowballs chance in hell.


when they lose their lawsuit, AB5 will finally get enforced on them

the only thing that has no snowballs chance in hell is Uber's argument that it is not a transportation company and that drivers are independent contractors....Lyft even less so


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> If they are flaunting existing rules, the answer seems to be in enforcement thereof and not in creating even more rules for them to ignore.


I agree 110%. Its a shame that this is not happening. It is really pathetic that they are allowed to break laws and simply 'litigate' delays while they continue to profit illegally.

I could complain about the US legal system flaws, but Uber's games are not limited to the US.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

got a p said:


> those numbers are actually an indication of the destruction of the middle class in california if you read between the lines. california used to be a middle class paradise, now it's slaves and slave-owners. and the slaves all together triumphantly declaring "we are the 5th largest economy in the world!" &#129318;‍♂ people working two full time jobs just so they can pay the rent with no opportunity to own their house and land, barely getting to spend time with their family, while the fat cats piss on them and tell them it's raining.
> 
> hopefully we can keep that mentality out of real america where the middle class still represents a large portion of the population.


I thought you were asking about Cali.

This thread is about AB5.

It should be obvious to everyone AB5 isn't going to bring back the middle class for Uber drivers.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Elephant said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1228775326085533697


Are you Patron?


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## Elephant (Aug 29, 2016)

https://www.latimes.com/business/st...nia-independent-contractor-small-business-ab5


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

Perhaps we will soon get to hear what the California PUC thinks is the proper classification for TNC drivers. The CPUC has the power to set rules and regulations that they think are in the public's best interest. For example, they created a unique scheme of insurance coverage (Periods 1,2,3) for California TNC providers. And they already require permitted limousine companies to classify their drivers as employees.

*On December 19th of last year the California Public Utilities Commission ordered Transportation Network Companies and affected parties (drivers also) to comment on the apparent reclassification of TNC independent contractors to employees caused by AB5 and the Dynamex decision.The CPUC publishes both proposed rulings and comments so we will see what the arguments are from both sides.*

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M322/K150/322150549.PDF

The administrative law judge gave a deadline for submissions of February 28, 2020, only 9 weeks

Here are a few excerpts from the filing:
_____________________________________________

_"It appears that pursuant to AB 5 and Labor Code Section 2750.3, as of January 1, 2020, participating drivers will be deemed employees of the TNC whose online-enabled application or platform they have logged on to in order to connect with passengers to provide transportation service._
_I am, therefore, ordering the parties to comment on the following questions:_

_a. Do AB 5 and Labor Code Section 2750.3 cover TNCs such that participating drivers should be deemed employees of the TNCs for whom they provide transportation service? Set forth all non-privileged law, facts, documents, and witnesses that support your answer._
_Dynamex discusses the wage order provisions set forth in California Code of Regulations, tit. 8, Section 11090. Subdivision 1 states: This order shall apply to all persons employed in the transportation industry, whether paid on a time, piece rate, commission, or other basis, except that &#8230; this order shall not apply to persons employed in administrative, executive, or professional capacities._

_b. Are participating drivers covered by California Code of Regulations, tit. 8, Section 11090, subdivision 1? Set forth all non-privileged law, facts, documents, and witnesses that support your answer._
_c. Are TNCs covered by California Code of Regulations, tit. 8, Section 11090, subdivision 1? Set forth all non-privileged 3 / 5 R.12-12-011 ALJ/RIM/bx1 - 4 - law, facts, documents, and witnesses that support your answer."_


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

KevinH said:


> Perhaps we will soon get to hear what the California PUC thinks is the proper classification for TNC drivers. The CPUC has the power to set rules and regulations that they think are in the public's best interest. For example, they created a unique scheme of insurance coverage (Periods 1,2,3) for California TNC providers. And they already require permitted limousine companies to classify their drivers as employees.
> 
> *On December 19th of last year the California Public Utilities Commission ordered Transportation Network Companies and affected parties (drivers also) to comment on the apparent reclassification of TNC independent contractors to employees caused by AB5 and the Dynamex decision.The CPUC publishes both proposed rulings and comments so we will see what the arguments are from both sides.*
> 
> ...


I hope a mod can make a new theead out of this. Probably the best piece of legislation in drivers favor ever.


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## AB5 (Mar 29, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Lorena Gonzales is the assemblywoman responsible for AB5. I am sure she is a nice person but when it comes to rideshare she does not have a clue. The things she wants rideshare companys to be responsible for is ludicrous.


All she wants is Uber to act like every other company. The same thing was said about farming. You like share cropping?



KevinH said:


> Perhaps we will soon get to hear what the California PUC thinks is the proper classification for TNC drivers. The CPUC has the power to set rules and regulations that they think are in the public's best interest. For example, they created a unique scheme of insurance coverage (Periods 1,2,3) for California TNC providers. And they already require permitted limousine companies to classify their drivers as employees.
> 
> *On December 19th of last year the California Public Utilities Commission ordered Transportation Network Companies and affected parties (drivers also) to comment on the apparent reclassification of TNC independent contractors to employees caused by AB5 and the Dynamex decision.The CPUC publishes both proposed rulings and comments so we will see what the arguments are from both sides.*
> 
> ...


No on Prop AB5


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

AB5 said:


> All she wants is Uber to act like every other company. The same thing was said about farming. You like share cropping?
> 
> 
> No on Prop AB5


I have discussed this ad nauseum and stand by my feelings.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

.


Elephant said:


> Right now Uber Is our boss and they are using their algorithm to control us.


The problem is the algorithm manages and controls driver behavior much more efficient than a human manager.

If I don't jump when the order comes in and the algo detects I'm moving too slow, it redispatches.

If I decline a few rides in a row, the algo toggles me efficiently.

If I cancel 2 or more rides in a day, it gives me a worning

If I don't stay exactly at the pin, regardless of if it's legal to stop there, the algo will direct me, or not pay me cancel fee.

If I am behind ETA it blocks me from a cancel fee.

Human manager would not be able to control me as efficient as a algo manager.

People use a outdated mental picture of a human directing them, and say look I'm not directed by a human, so I don't have a manager controlling my behavior.

It is a lot easier to have algorithm control drivers, or amazon wear-house workers than to hire a manager for every 25-50 workers.

So we are completely treated like employees and not what a contractor is.

Drivers associate flexible schedule with being your own CEO.


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## Soldiering (Jan 21, 2019)

everythingsuber said:


> What Lorena has done completely nailed Uber to the wall regarding its mistreatment of drivers and called them out on pretty much every lie and misrepresentation Uber has put forward fighting ab5
> That's been bourne out in today's court decision.


DONT DRIVE IF YOU DONT LIKE IT! Rideshare drivers are such crybabies


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## AB5 (Mar 29, 2020)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> .
> 
> The problem is the algorithm manages and controls driver behavior much more efficient than a human manager.
> 
> ...


Dara is are boss yes



Soldiering said:


> DONT DRIVE IF YOU DONT LIKE IT! Rideshare drivers are such crybabies


Vote No on Prop 22. Lorena Gonzalez for President!!!!!


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Soldiering said:


> DONT DRIVE IF YOU DONT LIKE IT! Rideshare drivers are such crybabies


No dude.

I can't start a business and control the worker like a employee and call them a contractor.

Instead of stop driving as you suggest, the worker can file a claim against me and if I am found misclassifying my workers I get penalized.

So I think the drivers that are not happy being treated like a employee should ask for penalty and back pay, so the company deals with consequences.

Ab5 allows drivers to collect penalty and pack pay if the company treats them like employees.

If the company does not want massive financial loss in payout to the drivers you suggest should just walk away, then said company should make sure to treat its workers as it classifies them.

Companies misclassifying their workers is not the workers problem, it is the companies problem. There are consequences as we are witnessing in California.

I rather drive, fight for IC rights, and if I don't like misclassification And being treated like a employee, then make sure U/l face consequences.

Not walking away like you suggest. That's for cowards.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Soldiering said:


> DONT DRIVE IF YOU DONT LIKE IT! Rideshare drivers are such crybabies


Goes beyond that. Uber is about creating an environment were 3rd world conditions are ok
Every job is take it or leave it. 80 hours a week at 5 dollars an hour. You don't like it bad luck.

Uber are spending 180 million lying to people. That's all it takes you can create a work force of subservient minorities. Every industry should do it.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Soldiering said:


> DONT DRIVE IF YOU DONT LIKE IT! Rideshare drivers are such crybabies


Imagine if you worked a job and found out that the boss shot the worst employee in the hand every month then fired them. Then someone says to you "If you don't like it, just go get another job, quit complaining." You might say "Wait a minute, they are breaking the law! They are hurting people! It's a lot more than me just getting another job, it's serious stuff." <<Or you might be a selfish prick and just get another job and let people continue to get hurt.>>

A bit of an extreme example, but hopefully you get my point. Uber is breaking numerous laws, worldwide, and has been for years. And they've been getting away with it because it's not (yet) cold blooded murder. (Although they did doctor the video footage of the Arizona crash when one of their robo-cars killed someone, I guess that might fall in that realm.)

FWIW, I _DID_ get another job. I'm done driving. And I'm still speaking out about their illegal actions. Kind of like protestors are speaking out about how minorities are getting killed by the (rare) rotten cops, even if the protestors are not minorities themselves. This is how we grow and improve, as a society and as a species.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Can't wait until all you Cali drivers are Uber Employees so we can laugh when you start complaining you have to work split shifts, or just getting half a day.

How minimum wage sucks and you start demanding a raise from Uber

How you cant take a piss break when you need to..but the very best will be your ...

UBER FIRED ME POSTS.. those are going to be a hell of a lot of Fun !!


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> .
> 
> The problem is the algorithm manages and controls driver behavior much more efficient than a human manager.
> 
> ...


We are hybrids that have never existed before.



Mista T said:


> Seriously? That's a full hour of typing on my end.
> 
> Do a little research on the legalities of being an IC, and get back to me please.


Why ? I am fine with everything just the way it is. You crybabies just keep stomping your feet and shaking your rattles. I will be out there killing it with hard work.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

dauction said:


> you start complaining you have to work split shifts,


oh no, the chief complaint that will produces the most tears and jumping up and down: I WASN'T HIRED TO BE AN EMPLOYEE

Yup, karma IS a boomerang.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> oh no, the chief complaint that will produces the most tears and jumping up and down: I WASN'T HIRED TO BE AN EMPLOYEE
> 
> Yup, karma IS a boomerang.


I was never hired so I am good with the status quo


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> I was never hired so I am good with the status quo


which you are in no risk of loosing unless you move all the way across the country...

I was referring to if Prop 22 flames out and AB5 is it. The biggest issue is both U/L won't hire all currently active drivers as employees. And those who post here, if they aren't 'selected' will howl at the moon nonstop. K A R M A for those few who prefer AB5 over Prop 22.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> which you are in no risk of loosing unless you move all the way across the country...
> 
> I was referring to if Prop 22 flames out and AB5 is it. The biggest issue is both U/L won't hire all currently active drivers as employees. And those who post here, if they aren't 'selected' will howl at the moon nonstop. K A R M A for those few who prefer AB5 over Prop 22.


Totally agree


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

SHalester said:


> which you are in no risk of loosing unless you move all the way across the country...
> 
> I was referring to if Prop 22 flames out and AB5 is it. The biggest issue is both U/L won't hire all currently active drivers as employees. And those who post here, if they aren't 'selected' will howl at the moon nonstop. K A R M A for those few who prefer AB5 over Prop 22.


Prop 22 doesn't claim Gig companies will "hire all currently active drivers" as independent contractors either.

They'll hire only as many drivers needed at any given time.

No more, no less.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

observer said:


> Prop 22 doesn't claim Gig companies will "hire all currently active drivers" as independent contractors either.


oh good grief. And neither U/L et al have said anything about if Prop 22 prevails there will be any changes in the population of active drivers. If anything, they might plug the pipe of 'new' drivers....some.

On AB5 U/L have been clear what will happen.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

SHalester said:


> oh good grief. And neither U/L et al have said anything about if Prop 22 prevails there will be any changes in the population of active drivers. If anything, they might plug the pipe of 'new' drivers....some.
> 
> On AB5 U/L have been clear what will happen.


They are quite clear on what they _*say *_they are going to do.

They can say whatever they want but even under Prop 22, they won't "hire all currently active drivers".

That claim is just nonsense.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

observer said:


> they won't "hire all currently active drivers".


Says who? Links, please. So I can add it to my KB. THANKS!


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> Prop 22 doesn't claim Gig companies will "hire all currently active drivers" as independent contractors either.
> 
> They'll hire only as many drivers needed at any given time.
> 
> No more, no less.


Yes now isn't this so much better ? NOT !


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Yes now isn't this so much better


for TBA there has been no such hints from any of gigs paying for Prop 22. Don't confused a wild speculation opinion with facts.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

SHalester said:


> Says who? Links, please. So I can add it to my KB. THANKS!


Says me.

That's all you need.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

observer said:


> That's all you need.


is ok if I don't accept? I mean, I don't want your head to explode or anything. Wild wild speculation based on........nothing. An opinion at best, right? 
<kerboing>


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> for TBA there has been no such hints from any of gigs paying for Prop 22. Don't confused a wild speculation opinion with facts.


I see nothing but confusion from 3000 miles away


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

SHalester said:


> is ok if I don't accept? I mean, I don't want your head to explode or anything. Wild wild speculation based on........nothing. An opinion at best, right?
> <kerboing>


Yes my opinion.

If you believe anything Uber says that's OK too.

But, most people know not to trust anything Uber says.

Most people.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> We are hybrids that have never existed before.


That is true. We are hybrids.

Since we are controlled like employees but get flexible work term, then I'm ok with getting some employee like benefits, if I get some employee like treatment.

Im a Hybrid so I don't need minimum wage laws, it effects my flexibility.

Im cool with drivers getting workers com, UI, SSI contribution, health and vacation benefits in a hybrid model if they are controlled by a algo manager.

In return for the flexibility, no need for minimum wage application that is extremely difficult for rideshare to implement.

Instead we can have a minimum rate, drivers can set rates at above minimum Rates, and a cap of drivers on the road.

This is the exemption on the table by drivers and politicians behind AB5.

Uber found a way to not need to negotiate with us for the exemption and is low balling a offer through voter ignorance of the details.

I promisee you if drivers reject this first offer through prop 22, then the offer to get a exemption will become much much more beneficial to drivers.

Minimum wage issue can be handled with a minimum rate and a cap on drivers. It's a easy exemption if drivers realized we actually can get a better deal here.


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## Sinansd (Dec 2, 2017)

She is just a fat pickle that smells


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> Yes my opinion.
> 
> If you believe anything Uber says that's OK too.
> 
> ...


You mean like them promising 70/30 split to diamond drivers durring 120 days of out right lies


I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> That is true. We are hybrids.
> 
> Since we are controlled like employees but get flexible work term, then I'm ok with getting some employee like benefits, if I get some employee like treatment.
> 
> ...


I think we both agree on the fact that Uber is a hybrid that has never existed before.
Your reply is very well thought out and reflects your thoughts on how you would like to see both sides merged into one. 
The problem arrises when other drivers want some of what you want but also want there version of what Uber should be for there specific needs.
It's a complicated issue and I don't know what the eventual answer will be.
I think we all agree we want more for the driver. Just how realistic it is to obtain those while still retaining the positive aspects of using the app remains to be seen.



Sinansd said:


> She is just a fat pickle that smells


I have made my thoughts on Lorena very clear


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