# The Tyranny Of Uber's Rating System | An Attempt At Changing It



## chi1cabby

*Uber's Ratings Terrorize Drivers And Trick Riders. Why Not Fix Them?*
*Jeff Bercovici*

*http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffber...we-actually-rating-when-we-rate-other-people/*


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## chi1cabby

Uber's Rating System is inherently unfair. And it's implementation is arbitrary.
4 Stars is a darn good rating for a professional critic/reviewer to give to a movie, restaurant etc. Amateur reviews on yelp, Amazon etc that are 4 Stars are considered Good.

Btw, Uber_CHI Yelp rating is 2.5 Stars!









Even if nothing else changes with the rating system, the acceptable threshold should be lowered to 4.0 Stars ASAP! And Uber should do this openly, by informing the media that it made a mistake in setting the threshold at 4.7 or 4.6 (or whatever it really is or isn't, since it varies from market to market).
I've seen Twitter pics of drivers as low as 2.6)









The drivers should also be informed of this change, so that they can go out there and work without overly worrying about this Rating BS!

Then there is the issue of Drivers, esp Female Drivers, having to suffer through undue harassment under this tyranny!


















There is no merit in the ratings given by mostly drunk riders during late night weekend hours. And where is the merit in the ratings given by pissed off riders during high Surge Pricing?


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## scrurbscrud

Making drivers attempt to locate the happy happy social order as determined by 20 somethings who don't even have personalities is truly torturous.

I'm thinking of hiring an organ grinder with an entertainment monkey co partner to sit in my front seat. Maybe increase the tips and split with 'em if nothing else. (and not HAVE to entertain them mySELF!!!)


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## chi1cabby

Apparently Uber knows of these issues with it's Sham Rating System, but chooses to just ignore them. But over the Halloween weekend, Uber sent out this text msg to Drivers

















But OMG! Drivers Have No Way Of Knowing What Rating They Even Got On Any Given Ride!! 
Edit : So How the hell is a Driver even supposed to "*Submit a Ratings Review Request*" ! Uber has NEVER adjusted an unjustified Rating! 


grUBBER said:


> You can't see your single ratings.
> What are you gonna write them
> about?
> "Oh, I don't know what I'm talking about but if I have anything other then 5s, delete those?"


https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-adjusting-ratings.5957/

Yet despite all it's inherent shortcomings, Uber has No Compunctions about using the Rating System as a cudgel against perfectly good Drivers!
https://uberpeople.net/threads/deactivated-twice.6377/


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## Elmoooy

2.6 WOW. id be scared too


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## Red

Just read an article in NY Post this morning praising Uber with examples of "top drivers stories". Lot of misinformation, but the point is those "top partners" had ratings from 4.62 to 4.82. The only ones that agreed to be in the article I guess.


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## LAuberX

Elmoooy said:


> 2.6 WOW. id be scared too


2.6 needless to say it was his last day.


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## chi1cabby

*Yes, Uber Drivers Are Rating You. Welcome to the Future of Reviews.*
**
*Bill Tancer*

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/arti...ome-to-the-future-of-reviews#article-activity

This is an in-depth look at bilateral reviews by an expert. Yet even he fails to see the deep flaws in Uber's Rating System as currently implemented.


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## cybertec69

chi1cabby said:


> *Yes, Uber Drivers Are Rating You. Welcome to the Future of Reviews.*
> **
> *Bill Tancer*
> 
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/arti...ome-to-the-future-of-reviews#article-activity
> 
> This is an in-depth look at bilateral reviews by an expert. Yet even he fails to see the deep flaws in Uber's Rating System as currently implemented.


The reason is, they are not Taxi drivers and have NO CLUE what we have to deal with on a day to day basis. For the last too weeks I have been at a 5 rating, then yesterday after my 14 trips I was still at 5, then after my 15th trip all of a sudden I am at 4.67, LOL, really, so for 100 plus rides everyone is happy, then one idiot decides for whatever reason "most likely the fare price", and gives me a 3 for no rime or reason. I have send numerous emails to Uber regarding this issue, with the same idiotic response, it's like conversing with mokeys at the Uber CSR headquarters.


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## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> Apparently Uber knows of these issues with it's Sham Rating System, but chooses to just ignore them. But over the Halloween weekend, Uber sent out this text msg to Drivers
> 
> View attachment 2259
> View attachment 2260
> 
> 
> But OMG! Drivers Have No Way Of Knowing What Rating They Even Got On Any Given Ride!!
> Edit : So How the hell is a Driver even supposed to "*Submit a Ratings Review Request*" ! Uber has NEVER adjusted an unjustified Rating!
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-adjusting-ratings.5957/
> 
> Yet despite all it's inherent shortcomings, Uber has No Compunctions about using the Rating System as a cudgel against perfectly good Drivers!
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/deactivated-twice.6377/


You KNOW Chi, they send out emails to not worry about bad ratings like they did on Halloween, *but if the drivers don't follow the steps required i.e. send in reports, they will NOT get any adjustments.* We know how Uber handles these things. They don't. *They just lie to the drivers.* Drivers don't always know who nails them on ratings anyway. What were drivers supposed to do on Halloween? Send in reports for EVERY ride because customers were pissed over high fares?

I doubt there were any drivers on Halloween who DIDN'T take a hit on their ratings and I equally doubt that a single driver got a ratings adjustment either.


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## StephenJBlue

You know, I'm always amazed at driver's and people who actually think that @uber gives a rat's ass about the drivers. They don't. Plain and simple. We actually don't know what each individual passenger rates us, but we have a clue based on their actions and demeanor during the ride. Some driver's offer advice to other drivers about bad ratings with suggestions that they should contact @uber. Honestly, all uber does is send back a cheesy email telling the driver to not worry about an individual ride or rating and to just focus on the big picture. 

Anyone saying that uber cares about it's drivers has seriously drunken the Kool-Aid.


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## chi1cabby

chi1cabby said:


> Drivers Have No Way Of Knowing What Rating They Even Got On Any Given Ride!!
> Edit : So How the hell is a Driver even supposed to "*Submit a Ratings Review Request*" ! Uber has NEVER adjusted an unjustified Rating!


Exactly @scrurbscrud , thank you!


scrurbscrud said:


> Drivers don't always know who nails them on ratings anyway. What were drivers supposed to do on Halloween? Send in reports for EVERY ride because customers were pissed over high fares?


Can some Drivers please post the emails to Uber when they've requested that a specific rating be removed due to exigent circumstances, and Uber's canned email responses?
Thanx!


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## Goober

Hi Goober,

I really am very sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with riders regarding your vehicle capacity.

It is always upsetting when you are trying to do your best and you are treated inconsiderately. We definitely stand behind you as our partner and we value that partnership. We take the ratings you give to riders seriously and this is also a way to inform other drivers of the riders they are transporting.

While I understand your concerns about ratings, and I am sorry to hear that you feel pressured into driving as a result, I would encourage you to respectfully hold your ground and let the riders know that you cannot safely transport more than 4 riders and so for their safety, you are happy to either a) transport four or unfortunately they will have to request a larger vehicle. The reality is that every driver gets some ratings that are not warranted, however the system is such that we analyze your ratings in aggregate (overall for all trips), not for one trip. We look at your overall rating on the system and feedback from riders in various situations to determine whether you will continue to have access to the Uber app. We unfortunately cannot adjust theseratings.

Please focus on diffusing situations professionally and you will be fine. If you treat all riders with respect, your overall rating should remain high. I hope this information helps!

As for the ping after a cancellation, I appreciate your patience when this occurs. I will make a note of the situation for future consideration.

Thanks again for reaching out with your questions and concerns.

Best,

*Uber Support*


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## scrurbscrud

Typical canned Uber to driver "sorry but we can't help you" email.


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## Goober

scrurbscrud said:


> Typical canned Uber to driver "sorry but we can't help you" email.


Yeah, after I sent it I was like "why did I even bother?"


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## scrurbscrud

Goober said:


> Yeah, after I sent it I was like "why did I even bother?"


Yeah, pretty much where I've been with emailing them for quite awhile. It's generally a useless undertaking. And Lyft is even worse. I've sent in a couple emails that are on 3-4 weeks now without even a 'canned' response in return.


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## chi1cabby

*The Comprehensive Guide to Uber Rating System:*

*https://www.dropbox.com/s/b0gnhj14o226y6l/The Rating System.pdf*


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## Goober

chi1cabby said:


> The Comprehensive Guide to Uber Rating System:
> 
> *https://www.dropbox.com/s/b0gnhj14o226y6l/The Rating System.pdf*


Where did you find this?

I find the data hard to believe that drivers' ratings go up on weekends after 8PM...sounds like propaganda to me, but hey maybe drunks _are_ more jovial.


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## chi1cabby

Goober said:


> Where did you find this?
> 
> I find the data hard to believe that drivers' ratings go up on weekends after 8PM...sounds like propaganda to me, but hey maybe drunks _are_ more jovial.


@grams777 had posted this many months ago.










I find this utterly incredulous too! What Uber is saying is that drunk riders are less problematic than sober riders. And that the riders who've just paid through their noses during High Surge Prices are very happy about it!

But then this past Halloween, Uber sent out this text msg and instituted a Rating Review Request for the very first time:


















But OMG! Drivers Have No Way Of Knowing What Rating They Even Got On Any Given Ride!! So How the hell is a Driver even supposed to "*Submit a Ratings Review Request*"!

*So there you have it! Yet another shining example of Uber telling the Drivers whatever SunShit it can think of!*


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## chi1cabby

*My quest to score the worst passenger rating on Uber*

*







*

http://www.dailydot.com/business/uber-1-star-reviews/


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## chi1cabby

*THE BIG HIDDEN PROBLEM WITH UBER? INSINCERE 5-STAR RATINGS*
*http://www.wired.com/2015/03/bogus-uber-reviews/*


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## chi1cabby

chi1cabby said:


> Can some Drivers please post the emails to Uber when they've requested that a specific rating be removed due to exigent circumstances, and Uber's canned email responses?
> Thanx!


Desert Driver could you please tell how many emails over how many days did it take you to get Uber to remove an unfair Rating?
*The final word: Yes, Uber will remove unfair ratings*


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## Desert Driver

chi1cabby said:


> Desert Driver could you please tell how many emails over how many days did it take you to get Uber to remove an unfair Rating?
> *The final word: Yes, Uber will remove unfair ratings*


Far too many. It was a matter of principal. Truthfully, I don't give a rat's ass about ratings. However, I do give a shit when a system is rigged against me and I have been victimized.


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## Cooluberdriver

chi1cabby said:


> Apparently Uber knows of these issues with it's Sham Rating System, but chooses to just ignore them. But over the Halloween weekend, Uber sent out this text msg to Drivers
> 
> View attachment 2259
> View attachment 2260
> 
> 
> But OMG! Drivers Have No Way Of Knowing What Rating They Even Got On Any Given Ride!!
> Edit : So How the hell is a Driver even supposed to "*Submit a Ratings Review Request*" ! Uber has NEVER adjusted an unjustified Rating!
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-adjusting-ratings.5957/
> 
> Yet despite all it's inherent shortcomings, Uber has No Compunctions about using the Rating System as a cudgel against perfectly good Drivers!
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/deactivated-twice.6377/


Just submit a rating review form for every customer lol


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## Casuale Haberdasher

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber's Ratings Terrorize Drivers And Trick Riders. Why Not Fix Them?*
> *Jeff Bercovici*
> 
> *http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffber...we-actually-rating-when-we-rate-other-people/*


POST # 1/chi1cabby: Thank You for
the Hyperlink to "Ratings
Blast from the Past"! Speaking of, have
You checked out:

https://uberpeople.net/posts/338664

Bison Admires!


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## chi1cabby

We have a New Forum Member noopur28. She's researching all aspects of the Sharing Economy at UC Irvine.
She conducted the Driver Survey of Rating System (Double-Sided Reputation System). noopur28 then compiled the Driver Survey Responses, and submitted them to the FTC.

*https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ms_C-G8Z89GVHdzdJ8yWv7Nv9xXh5e1Na9pCHQkpr-s/mobilebasic*

_Response to the FTC Workshop on Ridesharing:

Date: 20 May, 2015

In response to the public call put out by the FTC for consultation on various aspects of ridesharing business practices and how they impact consumers, businesses and employee/contractors, we chose to focus on one of the most contentious issues that afflicts ridesharing operations - reputation systems and trust mechanisms.

We are a group of academics and drivers employed in the ridesharing industry as independent contractors, seeking to make a collective representation to the FTC on the existing problems with the design of interactions within mobile applications of services such as Uber and Lyft but not limited to them. We conducted a survey to source responses from ridesharing drivers within the United States. We present a brief summary of the responses, key issues highlighted and changes suggested by the driver community in the designs of ridesharing platforms.

We have consolidated the responses along four verticals:

1) biases in the reputation system

2) passenger understanding of the reputation system

3) effectiveness of the reputation system

4) driver suggestions to mend the reputation system

*Bias in reputation systems:*

From over 115 responses received from across the United States, most drivers have identified *"Lack of Awareness"* as the biggest problem affecting transactions in Uber, Lyft and other ridesharing platforms. Drivers explain that TNC companies are not building upon the existing understanding of ratings, safety and public behavior in taxis. While traditionally, taxi drivers do not get "rated" for their services or behavior, excessive emphasis is laid on driver's friendliness, ability to make conversations and other aspects that are not related to driving work at all. These factors are crucial to how passengers understand and rate drivers.

*Low awareness:*

Also, from their past experience with other platforms where 5 star rating scales are deployed, all passengers do not have a uniform understanding of how ratings work. For instance, as in the restaurant rating platform Yelp or in the e-commerce platform Amazon, 4 stars out of 5 may indicate exceptional quality, in Uber, getting average ratings below 4.6 and in Lyft getting below 4.79 can lead to deactivation (and hence the inability to drive for the service at all). In terms of passenger biases, the drivers who participated in the survey said that reasons for low ratings (lower than 5) can be numerous and subjective. These factors are mostly beyond driver control.

For instance, whenever the "surge" feature gets activated in Uber and Lyft because of peak hour traffic or excessive demand, passengers have to pay more for a ride. Given this unpleasant experience and their inability to address this issue, they rate drivers low assuming that drivers represent the company. However, in reality, drivers are only independent contractors with the company. So, a damage to their reputation or deactivation does not directly affect the company's revenue or reputation. Apart from surge pricing, other aspects like racism, gender bias, preferred route to the destination and arbitrary things like disagreement over sports or movies also contribute to low ratings.

*Illegality:*

The other big issue is the paradox of the one sided reputation system where passengers essentially have entire control over the ability of drivers to work, forcing them to often indulge in illegal activities in order to maintain their ratings.

One of the biggest complaints that drivers have is the "squeeze" problem or passengers insisting on taking more people than realistically possible and legally permissible. Also, since one of the biggest use cases of Uber is weekend cab services for inebriated passengers, drivers also land in trouble if the refuse to let passengers consume or carry open containers of alcohol inside their vehicles. Eventually, refusing the ride leads to a sharp decline in ratings and taking the ride means indulging in illegal activities._

_*Driving Minors:*

Drivers have also reported that often adult passengers order a ride through their phone for minors. It is only upon their arrival that they realize the problem. In such a scenario, if drivers refuse to accept the ride, their total number of rides rejected goes up and they risk getting low ratings. If they accept the ride, it not only constitutes a legal violation but also places enormous risk on the lives of the minor and driver.

*Passenger understanding of reputation:*

In the same survey, when asked how well passengers understand the rating system, most drivers responded by saying "not well" or "not at all". They also added that since rating every ride is not mandatory for the passenger, many passengers, if they are in a hurry or sleepy or drunk, forget to or avoid rating. Similarly, for passengers who did not have exceptionally good or bad experiences, there is a lower incentive to rate. This has been proven in other reputation systems as well. Thus, there is a higher chance of outliers who give extreme ratings because of very good or bad memorable experiences. What is worse is that passengers who give exceptionally low ratings don't have to explain the rationale behind their actions. Drivers only get anonymized rating reports at the end of the day. This makes it difficult to seek feedback on, improve their service or understand what went wrong.

*Effectiveness of ratings as reputation measure*

When asked to rate the effectiveness of ratings in terms of promoting trust within ridesharing businesses, 47% drivers rated them as 1 (implying very poor), 18% rated them as 2 (poor), 20% rated them as 3 (average) and the rest 17% rated them as 4 or 5 (implying good or very good).

The issue that surfaces from the biases listed above is that Uber and Lyft ratings are failing to produce a reliable measurement of the actual quality of driving. Since an integral part of services like Uber and Lyft is to provide a pleasant social experience along with the basic service of transportation, thereputation allows customers to subjectively rate based on their "entire experience" without defining or even providing guidelines about what to base their ratings on.

If reputation systems are in place to reinforce and build trust for both the parties involved, the sharing economy model at large poses a grave problem - here there are 3, not 2 parties involved. So, while for the passenger, rating drivers amounts to rating Uber service, if a driver gets deactivated or gets low ratings, due to the sheer amount of available drivers and scale of Uber's operations, the loss of drivers is only their own and not of the company's. In that sense, the division of responsibility and control over one's engagement in ridesharing platforms is not equal. While the companies retain the maximum amount of control over algorithms, fares and disputed matters and passengers do not share any liability, drivers experience the maximum lack in control over their situation.

The sharing economy platforms, like Uber and Lyft in this case, have no means of verifying if customer ratings are "fair". They also do not actively mediate to average the ratings or set a minimum low ratings threshold in order to compensate for the skewed rating graph.

*Suggestions:*

Currently passengers are being rated as well. However, it is unclear what impact those ratings have on encouraging better passenger compliance. Even so, low rated passengers still get rides and they have the option of choosing between multiple services.
Moreover, there is an enormous lack of transparency in how the current rating system works in ridesharing services. We request the consultation to seek clarity on the effectiveness and purpose of the existing reputation design system.
We also suggest that if loss of reputation can jeopardize employment for over 160,000 ridesharing drivers in the United States, companies like Uber and Lyft should redesign their applications to actively seek and encourage feedback on rides.
Further, the biggest shortcoming of the existing system is the lack of tooltips, suggestive text or tutorials to inform passengers about how ridesharing works. We suggest that producing such guidelines will drastically improve driver-passenger communication and management of expectations, thus promoting more trust in the system.
Similarly, since companies also control all the technological components of theseapplications, they should be tasked with mediating extremely high and low ratings to mitigate their effect on overall ratings.

Raw responses from the survey can be accessed here:
*https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1D8Gse2_YkFZLIAeiFrXhNfDusIS3JhWIXRIRTosVi3U/viewanalytics*


We look forward to the consultation process and request that these problems be seriously considered to not only improve the work experience within ridesharing but to also promote safety, trust and mutual respect between passengers and drivers._


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## cybertec69

Now that was very thorough, I doubt anything will come of this, as Uber has pretty much greased everyone.


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## chi1cabby

*Darren's* email to Uber:


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## chi1cabby

Uber's response to *Darren*


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## chi1cabby

So either Uber staff realized that Walter had badly effed-up by making a threat of *Permanent Deactivation *to a Driver simply asking for a Ratings Review, or *Darren* sent in a WTF email to Uber.


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## cybertec69

This is the crap we have to deal with, from the Pax to the dushebag CSR. Welcome to the new world order.


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## chi1cabby

And whatever happened to the *Ratings Review Form* that Uber had sent out this past Halloween?

*http://t.uber.com/atlrr








*


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## cybertec69

They change the rules as they go along, the whole rating system is past the absurd, there is no rhyme or reason to it, it is the worst rating system ever conceived in human history, this rating system is only to keep fear in the drivers "and stress them out, not like this job is not stressful enough", it has nothing to do about quality of the ride or quality of the pax, as I have seen pax with a 2* rating still able to order a car. I am on a daily basis 5* at the end of the day, and this can go on for weeks if not months, well the other day after my 11 trips that averaged me $8 a ****ing fare my rating was 4.75 after I dropped off this uber CSR at the NJ office and in the process gave him a piece of my mind, as the story goes that asshole tanked my rating, even though I picked him up within 2 minutes and dropped him off in a span of 10 minutes, taking the fastest route, like I have been saying this rating system is a sham to keep the drivers on edge, beware of the MAN mentality that has infiltrated today's egomanical corporate culture. On the other hand, I don't care as it does not effect me, always end the night with a 5*rating.


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## Uber_J

If you hit a pothole, most likely you will get a low rating, I learned that people just weird. So you hit your car on their backward street in some creepy neighborhood and you get a low rating, that's what I experienced.


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## Spaceuber

My weekly summary. Uber doesn't read Pax feedback, look at my rider comments.


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## chi1cabby

Spaceuber said:


> My weekly summary. Uber doesn't read Pax feedback, look at my rider comments.


*5* Rating Feedback: 13" Cock!*


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## Fuzzyelvis

chi1cabby said:


> *5* Rating Feedback: 13" Cock!*
> 
> View attachment 9844


You should post this on their twitter. And facebook.


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## chi1cabby

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You should post this on their twitter. And facebook.


Nah! 
Uber knows that It's Rating System is ill-conceived & ill-implemented. I use the threads I curate to inform the reporters & opinion makers.


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## Spaceuber

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You should post this on their twitter. And facebook.


I should send it to my local Fox station. See what attention it receives. LOL


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## chi1cabby

*Uber, Data Darwinism and the future of work*


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## My Cabby

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber, Data Darwinism and the future of work*


"Follow-up stories including comments by Uber co-founder and CEO Travis Kalanick seem to indicate that the protesters are drivers whose accounts were deactivated because of passenger feedback. It is easy to understand Travis' standpoint - our customers don't like these drivers, so we are cutting them out. And I can understand the drivers' point of view: They have never been rated and discarded like this before, and are rightfully angry."

Angry because not only can 4 star rating get you fired, there is no explanation or investigation as to what a driver did wrong.


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## chi1cabby

*UK Journalist Claims He's The First Uber User With A 1-Star Average Rating*
*http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-1-star-ratings-2014-12*


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## Jason2k15

chi1cabby said:


> Uber's Rating System is inherently unfair. And it's implementation is arbitrary.
> 4 Stars is a darn good rating for a professional critic/reviewer to give to a movie, restaurant etc. Amateur reviews on yelp, Amazon etc that are 4 Stars are considered Good.
> 
> Btw, Uber_CHI Yelp rating is 2.5 Stars!
> View attachment 2253
> 
> 
> Even if nothing else changes with the rating system, the acceptable threshold should be lowered to 4.0 Stars ASAP! And Uber should do this openly, by informing the media that it made a mistake in setting the threshold at 4.7 or 4.6 (or whatever it really is or isn't, since it varies from market to market).
> I've seen Twitter pics of drivers as low as 2.6)
> View attachment 2254
> 
> 
> The drivers should also be informed of this change, so that they can go out there and work without overly worrying about this Rating BS!
> 
> Then there is the issue of Drivers, esp Female Drivers, having to suffer through undue harassment under this tyranny!
> 
> View attachment 2255
> 
> View attachment 2256
> 
> 
> There is no merit in the ratings given by mostly drunk riders during late night weekend hours. And where is the merit in the ratings given by pissed off riders during high Surge Pricing?


Which is why I would never advocate or compel my wife to drive Uber for any reason.


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## chi1cabby




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## Geekonamotorcycle

I always notice a dip in my rating after taking home passengers that are very drunk or more commonly a drunk bf and gf fighting with each other. Drunks are the problem imho. By their nature they have impaired judgement and may not even be paying attention when they are rating. Ive had passengers joke about hey they were drunk and accidentally one stared people, ha ha. I get these people near the beach which has lead to a belief about people.

Beach people are the worst human beings.


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## chi1cabby

No Comment!


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## prettyincamo85

chi1cabby said:


> View attachment 12985


I wonder if that works... if so, would like to give it a try LOL


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## Coachman

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber's Ratings Terrorize Drivers And Trick Riders. Why Not Fix Them?*
> *Jeff Bercovici*
> 
> *http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffber...we-actually-rating-when-we-rate-other-people/*


Nothing in that article says anything about ratings being unfair or arbitrary. In fact, it says that riders tend to give high ratings most of the time. And they reserve low ratings for the very worst service. What's unfair or arbitrary about that?

Drivers who maintain ratings between 4.7 and 5.0 are not in fear of deactivation. The driver in the article who was begging for a good rating, per the story, was a horrible driver. He deserved to be deactivated.

It's really simple. All we need to do is stay out of the bottom 10% and we're okay. What's so terrifying about that?


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## chi1cabby

Coachman said:


> Nothing in that article says anything about ratings being unfair or arbitrary.


I'd requested that you read the thread in detail before you reply. But you choose to reply after the very first post.

This is what's unfair & arbitrary about Uber's Rating System, as compiled by an academic:

*https://uberpeople.net/threads/the-...ttempt-at-changing-it.6484/page-2#post-352453*
And this is what Uber will have you believe:

*https://uberpeople.net/threads/the-...em-an-attempt-at-changing-it.6484/#post-96359*


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## Coachman

chi1cabby said:


> I'd requested that you read the thread in detail before you reply. But you choose to reply after the very first post.
> 
> This is what's unfair & arbitrary about Uber's Rating System, as compiled by an academic:
> 
> *https://uberpeople.net/threads/the-...ttempt-at-changing-it.6484/page-2#post-352453*
> And this is what Uber will have you believe:
> 
> *https://uberpeople.net/threads/the-...em-an-attempt-at-changing-it.6484/#post-96359*


You're kidding me, right? That "acadamic" sent a survey out to Uber drivers, then compiled a report of the complaints she received from the disgruntled drivers who chose to respond. Where is the "study" part of the study?

This study about the "unfairness" of the ratings never once addressed whether bad drivers have bad ratings and good drivers have good ratings. That's an important point to omit, don't you think?

There are some well-known members of this forum who regularly drive surge and who regularly drive the bar crowd and manage to maintain 4.9 ratings. You think they do that by mere chance?


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## chi1cabby

Coachman said:


> That "acadamic" sent a survey out to Uber drivers, then compiled a report of the complaints she received from the disgruntled drivers who chose to respond.


No you're right!
Any driver who has anything negative to say about Uber's Rating System is obviously a "Disgruntled Driver".


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## glados

chi1cabby said:


> No Comment!
> 
> View attachment 13732


Data doesn't lie.


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## secretadmirer

It's most highly unlikely that uber will change/modify their ratings system. The ratings system is a joke, and not a funny one. Some riders have to grovel to get a 5 star rating. As far as unfairness, no studying it is necessary. As far as deactivation, they don't need a reason.

You mustn't think bad or say bad things about uber!!! Reminds me of an old twilight zone episode (the good life).


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## Skinny1

I just figured out I was 2 starred the other day. After many many 5 star trips some jack who you got to their destination safely.....has the nerve to do this.
Truly pathetic....I am not worried overall but it's annoying and a slap in the face. I am figuring it was a surge or one of the groups I Broke up because I would not take 7.

These pax.....who think they are above their driver ....haha I love hearing them talk themselves up amongst each other in earshot....
Rant over 

Uber on.....


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## Coachman

chi1cabby said:


> No you're right!
> Any driver who has anything negative to say about Uber's Rating System is obviously a "Disgruntled Driver".


There's plenty of real issues to be concerned about with Uber. Rate cuts. Driver safety. Insurance. Local regulations and ordinances impacting our ability to drive. You name it.

But complaining about the rating system is a waste of time. It's not unfair, in that everybody plays by the same rules. We all have to navigate that minefield of drunks, minors, people who want to eat and drink in our cars, people who are in a hurry and don't know where they're going, people who want us to run red lights or put their baby in the back seat, or people who are pissed at surge prices. And we're all subject to the same seemingly arbitrary nature of one passenger rating a 5 and another a 4 for the exact same trip. And while frustrating and nerve-wracking, nothing about any of that is "unfair." And there's nothing "tyrannical" about it. The trick is to manage all those obstacles while maintaining a high level of customer satisfaction. It's not easy. And not everybody will succeed. The system is designed to weed out those is the bottom 10%. That's one out of ten drivers who are at risk of deactivation.

And I'll ask you the same question I ask everybody. Are you telling those drivers with 4.9 ratings that they didn't earn them?


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## scrurbscrud

From experience, which pax "unfairly" rate low:

Pax who pay a net to driver $2.40. Such trips are always fast. There is little time to have even a modestly friendly bond. And they don't appreciate their cost of a small hot dog ride anyway.

Pax who are drunk. They do not think responsibly toward their driver who is just a common tool to get them to the next bar or get them home cheaply.

Night time pax rate worse than daytime pax. The driver is just a faceless person in the dark.

Pax who make drivers wait more than 4 min. before vehicle entry tend to down rate drivers because they seem to know or think they will be rated lower for causing the driver excessive wait time.

Pax who won't provide destination addresses or who are by nature bossy about routes seem to hammer driver ratings.

Pax with longer travel to pickup times tend to rate lower as their need for instant technological gratification is not fulfilled.

Pax who are new users or pax who are receiving discounted fares tend to rate drivers lower.

Pax who are overly curious about drivers and why they drive tend to rate lower.

Pax who rightfully think drivers are stupid for driving for low fares tend to rate lower. Obviously if a driver doesn't respect themselves enough to make a reasonable profit why would anyone else respect them with 5 stars?

Surge pax always hammer the drivers, particularly coupled with night driving and even moreso if they are drunk. They are so used to their cheap fares that they feel ripped off if a driver actually makes a fair rate. Friday and Saturday night driving from 10p.m. to 3-4 a.m. will usually require 20-40 weekday 5 star ratings to heal a drivers rating to offset the hammered weekend night surge fares. This of course puts the part timers at a great disadvantage because they don't drive as much during the week and even if they do drive during the week they run into the above issues after work and their ratings are harder to heal.

I have also noticed that when I start to hand out lower pax stars for various legitimate reasons, that my ratings tend to follow the downward path, and conversely when I consistently rate 5 stars to pax, my own rating goes up. 

Lyft ratings for drivers also tend to go up with positive driver comments attached in the feedback area. 

I seldom hand out anything less than 5 stars to pax. Rating less may indicate to the ride share companies that a driver has a bad attitude about doing the work and besides this they don't want their pax to be pissed over low ratings.

A large portion of my Uber pax don't even show their ratings anymore in the app, and to get to it it is made purposefully difficult for the drivers to access, whereas it used to pop up in the request window along with their name. Now neither show up.

All of the above being said my ratings have always been relatively high, supposedly compared to my peers, because I do admittedly kiss pax ***. It's that simple to get consistently good ratings. I still do the free stuff, water/candy. And have a speaker system in my vehicle that they can hook into via bluetooth, to play their own music and control the volume from their own phone, which the majority of the party pax use. This helps to keep my ratings higher even during bad driving times. 

BUT, because of the absurdly low std. fares, driver saturation and very little surge pricing for any length of time during bad driving hours, Fri/Sat. 10-3, I don't drive during those supposedly high demand hours any longer, and haven't since Uber and Lyft reduced their rates early this year. Drunks can walk home as far as I'm concerned. Being home in bed at 10 p.m. suits me just fine, whereas at the higher rate levels and even higher surge fares/longer surge fare times prior, it didn't bother me at all to pull these crap shifts because it paid to do so. NOW it doesn't and I no longer even consider doing it. I'll be DAMNED if I'll stay up til 2p.m. on a Fri/Sat. nite to drive a drunk home for $2.40. Both of these ride share companies can kiss my *** permanently if they think I'll do it. If there are other dummy drivers out there willing to do that, more power to 'em. Won't be me.


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## Adbam

glados said:


> Data doesn't lie.


When you don't release all the data or if you release old, irrelevant data it lies.

It is widely known that Uber doesn't release data. They had to be fined millions by CA before they released accurate data.

When they lowered rates in my town they used 2 months of data from Chicago that was a year old to prove that they were doing me a favor.

Come on 2 months from a year ago in a major city across the nation.....that data lied. A $20 ride is now $15. Thanks for that great data.


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## secretadmirer

lie about what? hahahahahaha is that you Randy?


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## Coachman

scrurbscrud said:


> From experience, which pax "unfairly" rate low...


Let's suppose I pick a rider up on time and have a relatively smooth ride. I offer water and mints, but she declines. She asked me to change the radio to her favorite station, which I did. Other than that, there's no conversation along the way. There's a little traffic delay before getting on the freeway, but then it's clear sailing, until I unfortunately miss her exit and have to take the next exit and backtrack, adding about two or three minutes and a quarter mile onto the ride.

What's the "fair" rating for that trip?


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## scrurbscrud

Coachman said:


> Let's suppose I pick a rider up on time and have a relatively smooth ride. I offer water and mints, but she declines. She asked me to change the radio to her favorite station, which I did. Other than that, there's no conversation along the way. There's a little traffic delay before getting on the freeway, but then it's clear sailing, until I unfortunately miss her exit and have to take the next exit and backtrack, adding about two or three minutes and a quarter mile onto the ride.
> 
> What's the "fair" rating for that trip?


Obviously the driver should be instantly executed for such a grave error.


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## Bart McCoy

scrurbscrud said:


> Obviously the driver should be instantly executed for such a grave error.


Buhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


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## Coachman

Well anybody who claims ratings are unfair should be able to explain what a fair rating is. Shouldn't he?


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## scrurbscrud

Coachman said:


> Well anybody who claims ratings are unfair should be able to explain what a fair rating is. Shouldn't he?


It's all arbitrary and capricious on the part of the pax.

Pax A**holes with a weapon against the drivers. But, such is the life of ride share drivers. I do think it tends to rightfully weed out people who perhaps shouldn't be doing it. I know for a fact that if pax have ridden with me, the next guy is going to be at a disadvantage, more than likely, just because I'm a semi-professional boot licker. The cheap ***es are getting an X fare in an XL ride with all the attendant pax glory provided used to keep me from being victimized by this jacked up system.


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## scrurbscrud

Anybody getting a ride for a net $2.40 to the driver deserves to rate no driver.

No drunk deserves to rate a driver.


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## Bart McCoy

Coachman said:


> Well anybody who claims ratings are unfair should be able to explain what a fair rating is. Shouldn't he?


The answer is easy, with the current ratings system you cant give a fair rating for a mistake like this. Yes the driver made a human mistake (i mis turns too every blue moon),and added a few dollars to the fare. So that meansrecommended hould probalby be out the question. But remember, anything from 1 star to 4 star means you want the driver fired. I dont think what the driver did should be recommended for firing. So I would have to rate him a 5, since really, your only options after a ride are to 1) keep the driver on the net work [5 star] or 2) have him fired [1-4 stars]


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## Coachman

Bart McCoy said:


> The answer is easy, with the current ratings system you cant give a fair rating for a mistake like this. Yes the driver made a human mistake (i mis turns too every blue moon),and added a few dollars to the fare. So that meansrecommended hould probalby be out the question. But remember, anything from 1 star to 4 star means you want the driver fired. I dont think what the driver did should be recommended for firing. So I would have to rate him a 5, since really, your only options after a ride are to 1) keep the driver on the net work [5 star] or 2) have him fired [1-4 stars]


If your rating was the only rating that mattered, then yes the driver might be fired. But it's not. Your 4-star is taking the driver from a 4.78, for example, to a slightly lower 4.78. Perhaps a 4.784 to a 4.782. Or if he's right on the cusp... a 4.77. So in effect, by missing the turn, the driver's armor gets dinged just a bit. And if he continues to miss turns, eventually those poor ratings will add up to something.

If you continue to give 5s for every miscue that isn't a total disaster, then your ratings truly are meaningless.


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## Casuale Haberdasher

secretadmirer said:


> It's most highly unlikely that uber will change/modify their ratings system. The ratings system is a joke, and not a funny one. Some riders have to grovel to get a 5 star rating. As far as unfairness, no studying it is necessary. As far as deactivation, they don't need a reason.
> 
> You mustn't think bad or say bad things about uber!!! Reminds me of an old twilight zone episode (the good life).


POST # 51/secretadmirer: Signs and
Wonders!
A 1961 Cloris Leachman.......JEEPERS!


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## chi1cabby

glados said:


> Data doesn't lie.


A detailed response to glados is posted in this thread: *zzzxyz*


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