# Figuring out your profit margin??? at 1.10/mile



## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

How do you figure out your profit margin?
As we all know "Uber Math" is mathematically challenged
of course it depends on where you live and what type of car you drive

So things I consider: Mileage, Time, Gas cost, Depreciation cost, maintenance, Toll
NJ:$1.10 mile
Base:$1.25

Is it worth it? if a trip too long? 
Got this ride request: NJ to Allentown PA about 90 miles away 1 hour and 1/2 one way . depending on which route you go you might not pay a toll but this came to $114 fare is this fare fair?
Real: total mileage was 185 (came back empty)
Time: 3 hours and 20 minutes (some construction traffic)
Gas cost: 3/4 tank back and forth (I don't drive a prius) $45
Toll= $12.75
Uber 20% = 20.05
Uber BS Insurance: $1

My net was $35.90 (my math) before tax, depreciation, maintenance etc...

Is it worth it if a trip is too short?
a 2 mile or less or >$14
take any $5 ride
How many can you make in an hour?


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

My quick & dirty calculation if I did that ride would be like this:

Fare = $114.00 - $1.00 fee = $113.00 - 20% = $90.40
185 miles x .40 cents per mile expense = $74.00
$90.40 - $74.00 = $16.40
$16.40 divided by 3 hours = $5.47 per hour. And that is if Uber pays those tolls. Otherwise it would have been basically a break even trip.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Not worth it......


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> Not worth it......


Maybe Ok with a $20.00-$30.00 tip.


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## marketmark (Dec 2, 2014)

The way I figure my profits is to total my take for the shift I am doing and back out my expenses for that shift.
Calculating it out for an individual ride doesn't really help me make decisions that affect my profits.

For example:
8 hour shift
$300 gross
$20 safe ride bs
$56 Uber 20%
$50 gas
$30 misc - 300 miles driven @ .10c/mile (money I set aside for maintenance/tires/repairs/etc)

Leaves a $144 "profit" for my 8 hours of work or about $18/hr

Some nights are more profitable and some less of course.
Using this information I have been able to focus on driving more profitable hours and locations.
I have been doing this for a year and a half and it works for me.
Your mileage may vary...


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Can a person get a degree in Uber Math, or is it the same as majoring in Faulty Logic?


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## CowboyMC (Aug 26, 2014)

Good thing, I don't drive UberX to make a profit.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

CowboyMC said:


> Good thing, I don't drive UberX to make a profit.


A big component that people are missing is the IRS allowance for personal automobile use for business. The DOE has a website where you can calculate the cost per mile for your car. The IRS allows 55.5 cents per mile when you use your personal automobile for business. However, my car (2007 Honda Fit) costs just 26 cents per mile to operate. Ergo, I make 30 cents per mile before I ever collect a fare. I purchased the car in 2006 and I have just shy of 150K miles on it. Because I use the car for my other two businesses, I have deducted every mile I have put on it. So far, I have been able to take nearly $75K in deductions on a car that I purchased new for $18.5K - and it's all legal and proper!

Now, if people are driving Uber/Lyft/SC and are not taking the personal mileage allowance, they are being foolish and are leaving money on the table with every tick of the odometer. But if you drive an econobox like I do and if you take the mileage allowance like I do, yes you can make a profit on UberX.

Anything else I can clear up for you, CowboyMC?


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## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> A big component that people are missing is the IRS allowance for personal automobile use for business. The DOE has a website where you can calculate the cost per mile for your car. The IRS allows 55.5 cents per mile when you use your personal automobile for business. However, my car (2007 Honda Fit) costs just 26 cents per mile to operate. Ergo, I make 30 cents per mile before I ever collect a fare. I purchased the car in 2006 and I have just shy of 150K miles on it. Because I use the car for my other two businesses, I have deducted every mile I have put on it. So far, I have been able to take nearly $75K in deductions on a car that I purchased new for $18.5K - and it's all legal and proper!
> 
> Now, if people are driving Uber/Lyft/SC and are not taking the personal mileage allowance, they are being foolish and are leaving money on the table with every tick of the odometer. But if you drive an econobox like I do and if you take the mileage allowance like I do, yes you can make a profit on UberX.
> 
> Anything else I can clear up for you, CowboyMC?


CowboyMC...thanks for clearing...but I do understand and have an accountant who will do all that


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

wtdrivesnj said:


> CowboyMC...thanks for clearing...but I do understand and have an accountant who will do all that


Just be sure to keep a log of the miles you drive, whether you have a rider with you or not. I have just shy of 150K miles on my '07 Fit and I have expensed every single mile I have traveled in that car since it was new. I run two other businesses that require car travel, so it's a very simple matter to bury my personal miles in the logs for my business miles.


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## marketmark (Dec 2, 2014)

Agree with Desert Driver... Log the miles, including driving to/from home, that mileage deduction really reduces your taxable earnings...


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

My tax write off at $0.56/mile is probably the only profit.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> May tax write off at $0.56/mile is probably the only profit.


Is your car a gas guzzler or is it a model that is expensive to maintain? You should be able to gen profit out of UberX like many of us do.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Is your car a gas guzzler or is it a model that is expensive to maintain? You should be able to gen profit out of UberX like many of us do.


Actually I generate profit, I have a Prius with avg. 51.1 MPG. However, the profit is less than $0.56/mile and more like $0.30/mile.


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## Tristan Zier (Nov 25, 2014)

LookyLou said:


> My quick & dirty calculation if I did that ride would be like this:
> 
> Fare = $114.00 - $1.00 fee = $113.00 - 20% = $90.40
> 185 miles x .40 cents per mile expense = $74.00
> ...


Just a note - don't get trapped into comparing the $5.47/hr to something like working for minimum wage elsewhere. In your calculation here, your $5.47 is basically yours to spend, because you've taken into account all the expenses associated with making that income. If you're working for minimum wage, you think "$11/hr", and don't think about expenses like the cost or time of commuting, personal expenses like your cell phone, etc.

In general, the best advice is to drive smart. You won't make a ton driving from 1-3pm on Tuesday. But if you drive 10-11pm on Friday, you're definitely going to get surge pricing and make some good money.


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## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

To those who talk about mileage write off like its something that you see as part of your income 
Mileage = cost in all forms it is a negative not a positive 
mileage = gas 
Mileage = wear & tear 
60,000 miles maintenance cost can run up to $1000 - 
highway mile or not 

the write offs just lessen you tax liability on April 15


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

wtdrivesnj said:


> To those who talk about mileage write off like its something that you see as part of your income
> Mileage = cost in all forms it is a negative not a positive
> mileage = gas
> Mileage = wear & tear
> ...


Not true. When it costs me 26 per mile to run my car and the IRS allows me to take a credit of 55.5 cents per mile, that IS money in my pocket. Every dollar I save on taxes (that's four miles) is one more dollar I get to keep in my pocket. So, yes, I am putting money in my pocket for every mile I drive because the 26 cents per mile that it costs to drive my car includes original purchase price, fuel, maintenance, repairs, etc. Don't fool yourself about how taxes really work, WT.


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## UberxN.J.sucks (Dec 3, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


> My tax write off at $0.56/mile is probably the only profit.


exactly


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberxN.J.sucks said:


> exactly


Wow. You're clearly not doing something properly. Would you like some assistance?


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Not true. When it costs me 26 per mile to run my car and the IRS allows me to take a credit of 55.5 cents per mile, that IS money in my pocket. Every dollar I save on taxes (that's four miles) is one more dollar I get to keep in my pocket. So, yes, I am putting money in my pocket for every mile I drive because the 26 cents per mile that it costs to drive my car includes original purchase price, fuel, maintenance, repairs, etc. Don't fool yourself about how taxes really work, WT.


The rate for this year is 56 cents, and will be 57.5 cents for 2015. Re "burying " your personal mileage, that might work as long as you have at least one other vehicle. Otherwise it might be a red flag in case of an audit.


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## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Not true. When it costs me 26 per mile to run my car and the IRS allows me to take a credit of 55.5 cents per mile, that IS money in my pocket. Every dollar I save on taxes (that's four miles) is one more dollar I get to keep in my pocket. So, yes, I am putting money in my pocket for every mile I drive because the 26 cents per mile that it costs to drive my car includes original purchase price, fuel, maintenance, repairs, etc. Don't fool yourself about how taxes really work, WT.


Your not Taking money out your pocket...semantics...every body sees things differently...I care about the $ that comes in that is real that's what I want to increase...because the money that goes out is always increasing anyway. Real


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

wtdrivesnj said:


> Your not Taking money out your pocket...semantics...every body sees things differently...I care about the $ that comes in that is real that's what I want to increase...because the money that goes out is always increasing anyway. Real


Agreed. And by the same token, each dollar less that I pay in taxes is money in my pocket.

Anything else I can clear up for you, W?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Older Chauffeur said:


> The rate for this year is 56 cents, and will be 57.5 cents for 2015. Re "burying " your personal mileage, that might work as long as you have at least one other vehicle. Otherwise it might be a red flag in case of an audit.


You are 100% correct. I have a hobby car that I drive seldom. But if I ever get challenged, which is only a 1 in 40,000 chance, I have a perfect explanation.


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## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Agreed. And by the same token, each dollar less that I pay in taxes is money in my pocket.
> 
> Anything else I can clear up for you, W?


Semantics


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Desert, do you mind sharing about your hobby car? Mine is a slightly tweaked '91 Miata which my son bought new.


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## haji (Jul 17, 2014)

you are not supposed to make money, this is designed to keep you busy , help your community ( gas stations, mechanical shops, fast food....)
Travis loves this business model.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

wtdrivesnj said:


> Semantics


No, money. Semantics is a fun topic, for sure, but semantics will never pay the mortgage. Money, on the other hand, does. You understand.


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## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> No, money. Semantics is a fun topic, for sure, but semantics will never pay the mortgage. Money, on the other hand, does. You understand.


Your funny...when someone agrees to disagree with you ...you should just leave it alone...otherwise your just waisting your time...everyone only sees things from their own point of view and I respect that...so semantics

se·man·tics
səˈman(t)iks/
_noun_

the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including _formal semantics_, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, _lexical semantics_, which studies word meanings and word relations, and_conceptual semantics_, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning.
the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text.
plural noun: *semantics*
"such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff"








*and by the way me replying to you is this manner is "Petty"...so I'm guilty...lol*


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

wtdrivesnj said:


> Your funny...when someone agrees to disagree with you ...you should just leave it alone...otherwise your just waisting your time...everyone only sees things from their own point of view and I respect that...so semantics


You're, not your
wasting, not waisting

That's spelling, not semantics, we will agree.

No need to thank, Desert Driver. He's here to help.


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## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> You're, not your
> wasting, not waisting
> 
> That's spelling, not semantics, we will agree.
> ...





Desert Driver said:


> You're, not your
> wasting, not waisting
> 
> That's spelling, not semantics, we will agree.
> ...


I will leave it so you can feel better


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

wtdrivesnj said:


> I will leave it so you can feel better


I've been feeling great all week. You?

FYI - you are wise to leave a debate when you've selected a position that is proven untenable. Kudos to ya on that decision! I personally love how pragmatic New Jersey people can be. You are definitely a credit to the Garden State.


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## UberHustla (Dec 2, 2014)

LookyLou said:


> My quick & dirty calculation if I did that ride would be like this:
> 
> Fare = $114.00 - $1.00 fee = $113.00 - 20% = $90.40
> 185 miles x .40 cents per mile expense = $74.00
> ...


When you're mulitplying by .40 cents...what does that signify? Gas, wear and tear on car?


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## good4life (Oct 4, 2014)

FWIW, here are my math assumptions:

Auto is currently owned out right. If I bought a car for UberX, I'd include payment as a replacement to Misc. below since car should be under warranty assuming new vehicle.

A = Mileage: 24000 miles per year
B = Gas: $3.50/gallon (premium) I know prices have dropped dramatically, I prefer to be conservative in my calculation
C = Car MPG: 16
D = Insurance: $1000/year
E = Oil change: $40 each (every 5k miles or 5/year or $200/yr)
F = Tires: $800 (for 4, with 50,ooo mile tread life) or $400/year
G = Scheduled maintenance: $1000/ year
H = Miscellaneous: $1000 (the water pump that went out, the A/C compressor needing to be replaced or brake pads & rotors)
I = Revenue/mile: $1.00

Per mile cost calculation:

B/C = .2187
D/A = .04167
E/A = .00833
F/A = .01667
G/A = .04167
H/A = .04167

.21875+.04167+.00833+.01667+.04167+.04167 = $0.36876 or *$.37/mile*
*
*
So, if I make $1.00 in revenue (after revenue share), my annual profit is $.63/mile or $.63 x A = $15,120/yr.!

Did I miss anything?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

good4life said:


> FWIW, here are my math assumptions:
> 
> Auto is currently owned out right. If I bought a car for UberX, I'd include payment as a replacement to Misc. below since car should be under warranty assuming new vehicle.
> 
> ...


You drive Uber at 16 MPG and 90+ octane fuel? That's amazing!


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## good4life (Oct 4, 2014)

Yeah! I looked at my estimated expenses with a new car and the cost per mile was maybe $.01 or $.02 less. Not worth spending the money for a more efficient vehicle, IMHO.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

good4life said:


> Yeah! I looked at my estimated expenses with a new car and the cost per mile was maybe $.01 or $.02 less. Not worth spending the money for a more efficient vehicle, IMHO.


Wow!


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

good4life said:


> FWIW, here are my math assumptions:
> 
> Auto is currently owned out right. If I bought a car for UberX, I'd include payment as a replacement to Misc. below since car should be under warranty assuming new vehicle.
> 
> ...


Yes, you did not count the unpaid miles.
Not every mile out of the 24000 miles is a paid mile.
Probably only half of it is paid.
So: 
I = Revenue/mile: $1.00 IS WRONG
It's probably closer to: 
I = Revenue/mile: $0.50
So your net profit is probably half...... about $7560/year

It happens that your car is paid off.
Great... but this asset is depreciating
I don't see depreciation in your math.
It should be there, eventually you will have to buy another one.
Not counting for it means you are taking a loan from your asset.
It's not "net profit" it's a loan from your asset.


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## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

WOW...your numbers are amazing...
16 mpg is like a GMC truck

Real:
I get closer to 30 mpg (always topitoff when I do gas)
I've already put 40,000 plus miles on my car in 1 year.
My last maintenance trip alone cost me $379
each thing that needs to be done is like 69.99, 139.99 or 199.99 
I have about $500 worth of maintenace I have to do. had to take care of the need to do 1st
I've had to do Oil change once a month so its more like 12 a year ($32.08 each)
since I live in NJ my insurance is closer to $3000
I did get tires at costco for $830
got battery for $169 
so your assumptions are unfortunately very optimistic


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## good4life (Oct 4, 2014)

ElectroFuzz said:


> Yes, you did not count the unpaid miles.
> Not every mile out of the 24000 miles is a paid mile.
> Probably only half of it is paid.
> So your net profit is probably half $7560/year


I don't differentiate between paid or non paid miles. Miles driven are miles driven. Now, if you question my revenue per mile assumption, that is understandable and appreciated. That is why it's labeled as an Assumption as opposed to fact. You have to determine what is appropriate for your situation.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

ElectroFuzz said:


> Yes, you did not count the unpaid miles.
> Not every mile out of the 24000 miles is a paid mile.
> Probably only half of it is paid.
> So:
> ...


Depreciation will git'cha every time! I, too, was wondering why depreciation wasn't part of the calculation.


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## good4life (Oct 4, 2014)

wtdrivesnj said:


> WOW...your numbers are amazing...
> 16 mpg is like a GMC truck
> 
> Real:
> ...


Again, assumptions are just that, assumptions. Mine are based on MY experience. Yours may, I am sorry to say, may vary. Plug in your numbers and see what you come up with, if you haven't already done so.


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## good4life (Oct 4, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Depreciation will git'cha every time! I, too, was wondering why depreciation wasn't part of the calculation.


I didn't include depreciation for the following reasons:
My car is paid for and over 9 years old. I have owned it for five years. I assume that the value of the vehicle is consumed at 20% per year or more, in which case, my car is fully depreciated or basically worthless. Depreciation, while valid, is only realized when you go to sell the asset, otherwise it's an Accounting shell game (IMHO), and I don't plan on selling anytime soon! I do appreciate the feedback!


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## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

good4life said:


> I don't differentiate between paid or non paid miles. Miles driven are miles driven. Now, if you question my revenue per mile assumption, that is understandable and appreciated. That is why it's labeled as an Assumption as opposed to fact. You have to determine what is appropriate for your situation.


When I first started driving I was naive...and that's what your numbers seemed like...
drive for 3 months and keep everything and count everything. Forget Uber's BS reports...
There are expenses that you run into that you just didn't think of:
Returning miles & EZ pass return tolls (learn how to avoid tolls, while keeping your return miles low) 
Even though you may drive in NJ get the NY EZPASS better deal
Return miles (turnpike going but 1&9 coming back)
Idle Costs (its cold you have to keep your car running to keep warm) 
Food (Dunkin donut is our friend) plus their bathrooms are cleaner than 711


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

good4life said:


> I didn't include depreciation for the following reasons:
> My car is paid for and over 9 years old. I have owned it for five years. I assume that the value of the vehicle is consumed at 20% per year or more, in which case, my car is fully depreciated or basically worthless. Depreciation, while valid, is only realized when you go to sell the asset, otherwise it's an Accounting shell game (IMHO), and I don't plan on selling anytime soon! I do appreciate the feedback!


Yes, to the uninitiated, depreciation is an accounting shell game. I had the very same opinion when I began b-school. However, if you own any assets at all you are required to play that shell game for the IRS, and you'd be foolish not to. Because no asset lasts forever, failing to recognize depreciation does not give an accurate picture of your actual CDB or P&L. That's just the way it is in western cultures that practice accrual-based accounting methods.


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

good4life said:


> I don't differentiate between paid or non paid miles. Miles driven are miles driven. Now, if you question my revenue per mile assumption, that is understandable and appreciated. That is why it's labeled as an Assumption as opposed to fact. You have to determine what is appropriate for your situation.


I am not sure what this means.
Driving to the customer cost money, returning after a drop off also cost money.
Your math does not include these costs.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

wtdrivesnj said:


> When I first started driving I was naive...and that's what your numbers seemed like...
> drive for 3 months and keep everything and count everything. Forget Uber's BS reports...
> There are expenses that you run into that you just didn't think of:
> Returning miles & EZ pass return tolls (learn how to avoid tolls, while keeping your return miles low)
> ...


Paying tolls seems like a real headache for livery drivers. Is it? Out here there are no tollways, so I ask as a naïve person uninitiated in the ways of the east.


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## good4life (Oct 4, 2014)

wtdrivesnj said:


> When I first started driving I was naive...and that's what your numbers seemed like...
> drive for 3 months and keep everything and count everything. Forget Uber's BS reports...
> There are expenses that you run into that you just didn't think of:
> Returning miles & EZ pass return tolls (learn how to avoid tolls, while keeping your return miles low)
> ...


When I made my first post, I was actually replying to a question in this thread that asked where $.40 expense came from. I replied the way I did for two reasons: 1. to help the poster to see how the $.40 expense was calculated by using numbers I'm familiar with and 2. to give a template for others to just plug in their numbers to identify their own costs. Nothing more, nothing less. That said, maybe you should move down south to reduce your costs


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

UberHustla said:


> When you're mulitplying by .40 cents...what does that signify? Gas, wear and tear on car?


The .40 cents per mile includes everything in my calculation.

It is a good general average whether you are driving a new Prius or a 9 year old Lexus like me. It may not be spot on, but it is pretty close for everyone.

The sad part is that probably 80% of drivers doing this don't know or have any idea about their actual costs or how to maximize their deductions for taxes. Most only figure gas as their cost and are not logging their mileage. They will likely be using the mileage that Uber, Lyft and Sidecar provide to them which will be way off from their actual mileage.


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## good4life (Oct 4, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Yes, to the uninitiated, depreciation is an accounting shell game. I had the very same opinion when I began b-school. However, if you own any assets at all you are required to play that shell game for the IRS, and you'd be foolish not to. Because no asset lasts forever, failing to recognize depreciation does not give an accurate picture of your actual CDB or P&L. That's just the way it is in western cultures that practice accrual-based accounting methods.


Ahh.... to the initiated, my example is on a cash basis


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

good4life said:


> Ahh.... to the initiated, my example is on a cash basis


But see, that still doesn't get you out of the necessity of recognizing depreciation, whether you go cash basis or accrual basis accounting. You're not creating a realistic or factual financial picture (FASB standards) if you fail to recognize depreciation. For, how else do you account for the fact that an asset is worth less today than it was worth yesterday? And upon what basis do you justify purchasing a new asset to replacing an aging asset? Make no mistake, depreciation is your friend. It's a wonderful thing having non-cash expenses to offset taxable income. An expense that doesn't ding your cash flow is ALWAYS welcome. Hell, I'd depreciate my socks and underwear if I could figure out a legal way to do so!


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## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

good4life said:


> When I made my first post, I was actually replying to a question in this thread that asked where $.40 expense came from. I replied the way I did for two reasons: 1. to help the poster to see how the $.40 expense was calculated by using numbers I'm familiar with and 2. to give a template for others to just plug in their numbers to identify their own costs. Nothing more, nothing less. That said, maybe you should move down south to reduce your costs


I'm an east coast girl sorry...


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

wtdrivesnj said:


> I'm an east coast girl sorry...


Jersey girl? Wasn't there a Kevin Smith movie by that title about a decade ago?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

LookyLou - what happened to your yellow cab avatar?


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> LookyLou - what happened to your yellow cab avatar?


And he had a Lexus logo avatar before that.... keeps changing with time!


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## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Jersey girl? Wasn't there a Kevin Smith movie by that title about a decade ago?


Originally from Brooklyn


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

wtdrivesnj said:


> Originally from Brooklyn


I'm sure I can come up with an appropriate song or movie reference for that, too.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

ElectroFuzz said:


> And he had a Lexus logo avatar before that.... keeps changing with time!


New Rule: Change your avatar to something with a holiday theme. (Like Xmas lights on your car roof.)


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> LookyLou - what happened to your yellow cab avatar?


The sick yellow cab had to go. I just got tired of looking at it myself.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

You have a


good4life said:


> FWIW, here are my math assumptions:
> 
> Auto is currently owned out right. If I bought a car for UberX, I'd include payment as a replacement to Misc. below since car should be under warranty assuming new vehicle.
> 
> ...


You have missed alot!

First and foremost, no matter how you want to justify it, you cannot delete depreciation. But perhaps you would understand better if we called it devaluation of your car. Whether or not your car is paid for or not is irrelevant!! If you could sell your car at the beginning of the year for $5000 and after driving it for Uber, you can now only sell it for $2000, you have lost $3000 hard dollars out of you wallet.

Second, you have greatly underestimated maintenance and repairs. If your car is that old, you need to look at many more issues than you had listed. Driving multiple passengers increases the weight in the vehicle and increases wear and tear. Remember, no matter what Uber tells you, you are not ridesharing. If you ever get into an accident, the court is going to view you as driving passengers for money. With that means keeping a safe vehicle. If you have not kept a very high maintenance standard, watch out in court.

Do you wash your car?

Do you pay a safe ride fee?

If your insurance company discovers you are driving for Uber, they will camcel your insurance. Period. You will not pay those low rates for a long time if you have a cancellation on your record.

If you have not set yourself up as an LLC, any lawsuit could take all assets that you own including cash, stocks, cars, jewelery and your house.

But congratulations, you have dicovered how to eke out a few bucks with UberX. You HAVE to drive an old car. Anything, includimg the Prius, is a less than minimum wage proposition if you buy it new. The knuckleheads that buy those hybrid Camry's for UberX are especially uneducated.

Uber on!


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

good4life said:


> FWIW, here are my math assumptions:
> 
> Auto is currently owned out right. If I bought a car for UberX, I'd include payment as a replacement to Misc. below since car should be under warranty assuming new vehicle.
> 
> ...


So let's finish the math
1 carwash plus tip per week. 52 x $15 = $780
Lets say a very generous 7 miles per trip on average. 24000/7 = 3429 x $1 safe trip fee = $3429
Let's say a very very generous $2000 devaluation in your car since its old.
And we will add another $1500 to maintenance, because your car has an exhaust system and radiator and tie rods and shocks, etc. and a transmission that is wearing out. In addition to the parts and pieces that your clients are breaking.

$15120 - 780 - 3429 - 2000 - 1500 = $7411

You work at least 20 hours per week (probably much higher) to drive 24,000 miles so...

$7411/52/20 =. $7.12 per hour

Uber on!


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## good4life (Oct 4, 2014)

@UberBlackDriverLA -



> But perhaps you would understand better if we called it devaluation of your car.


Ignoring your condescending tone, my earlier post acknowledges that depreciation is valid when you sell your asset. Until then it is a 'non-cash' expense.



> Whether or not your car is paid for or not is irrelevant!!


Again, if you read my post, you would notice that since the car was paid off and I have held the car for 5 years, I consider the car to be worthless (assuming 20%/yr. depreciation). So my question to you is at what point does YOUR car become 'worthless' or does it ever become worthless?



> Second, you have greatly underestimated maintenance and repairs.


While I completely understand your point and accept that there may be additional specific expenses, your expenses are not mine. My misc is a catch all for that very reason.



> Do you wash your car?


Actually I do. I wash it myself.



> Do you pay a safe ride fee?


I certainly do. This is not a cost for me as it is a strict 'pass through'. I never see it.



> But congratulations, you have dicovered how to eke out a few bucks with UberX. You HAVE to drive an old car. Anything, includimg the Prius, is a less than minimum wage proposition if you buy it new. The knuckleheads that buy those hybrid Camry's for UberX are especially uneducated.


Thank you


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## Elite Uber Driver (Nov 15, 2014)

> Again, if you read my post, you would notice that since the car was paid off and I have held the car for 5 years, I consider the car to be worthless (assuming 20%/yr. depreciation). So my question to you is at what point does YOUR car become 'worthless' or does it ever become worthless?


Your car is not worthless until it is actually worthless. It has value at this point and it is losing value with each additional mile you put on it.


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

Elite Uber Driver said:


> Your car is not worthless until it is actually worthless. It has value at this point and it is losing value with each additional mile you put on it.


His car is 9 years old.
That means on Jan 01 2015 or Jan 01 2016 (depending on the market)
he will be deactivated from Uber because the car will become too old.
At that point he will have to purchase a newer car.
Not counting and planning for that major expense is not a realistic accounting practice.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

good4life said:


> I didn't include depreciation for the following reasons:
> My car is paid for and over 9 years old. I have owned it for five years. I assume that the value of the vehicle is consumed at 20% per year or more, in which case, my car is fully depreciated or basically worthless. Depreciation, while valid, is only realized when you go to sell the asset, otherwise it's an Accounting shell game (IMHO), and I don't plan on selling anytime soon! I do appreciate the feedback!


Simple suggestion. Just divide the cost of the car by the amount of miles you hope to get out of it.

For example, if you buy a new Prius for $25,000 and hope to get 250,000 miles out of it before it becomes worthless, then the cost per mile is $0.10 ($25,000/250,000).

If financing ended up costing $5,000 in interest then the cost per mile is $0.12 (($25,000 + $5,000)/250,000).

If you plan on selling it for $10,000 after 100,000 miles, then the cost per mile is $0.20 (($25,000 + $5,000 - $10,000)/100,000).

Or if you buy a Prius with 100,000 miles on it for $10,000 and hope to get it to 250,000 miles before it becomes worthless, then the cost per mile is $0.067 ($10,000/(250,000 - 100,000).

Just add this cost to your result of the math that produced $0.37/mile and you'll be good.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Simple suggestion. Just divide the cost of the car by the amount of miles you hope to get out of it.
> 
> For example, if you buy a new Prius for $25,000 and hope to get 250,000 miles out of it before it becomes worthless, then the cost per mile is $0.10 ($25,000/250,000).
> 
> ...


Probably one of the best posts I've heard on the subject.

A couple minor tweeks. I think the life of the vehicle at 250,000 miles is a little generous unless you are budgeting a small fortune for repairs.

Interest expense is WAY too low for most UberX drivers because I do not think too many of them are getting prime rates. If the UberX driver is one of those who financed a Camry hybrid through Santander, interest would be $15000 + or better. Even a prius through Santander would be $10,000 + in interest.

Also, there is an opporntunity "cost" if cash is paid for the vehicle that would be about equal to interest.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

good4life said:


> @UberBlackDriverLA -
> 
> Ignoring your condescending tone, my earlier post acknowledges that depreciation is valid when you sell your asset. Until then it is a 'non-cash' expense.
> 
> ...


This is why UberX will always have plenty of drivers. All the drivers justify their own expenses in their mind.

But in the real world the expenses are real. This is why Uber cannot retain drivers. When real expenses AND RISKS are evaluated, the vast majority of drivers quit.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> This is why UberX will always have plenty of drivers. All the drivers justify their own expenses in their mind.
> 
> But in the real world the expenses are real. This is why Uber cannot retain drivers. When real expenses AND RISKS are evaluated, the vast majority of drivers quit.


This is why I am on the sidelines, watching to see how it all turns out. So far it appears to be terrific for Uber and their investors, good for riders, and a looming financial crisis for drivers. I have to admit however to worrying about all those people abusing my Prius, as good as it is from an economic standpoint to drive for a TNC. Putting that aside, and even with the old higher rates, the earnings just couldn't match what I charge as a private chauffeur.


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## Monica rodriguez (Nov 16, 2014)

114? If it took 90 mins the fare comes out 116.45. Uber will pay for the tolls be sure to email them.

114-1(base fare)= 113 * .80( amount you keep)= 90.4 - 45(gas) = 45.4/3(hours)= 15 an hour. Not taking out the maintenance. Doesn't sound that bad.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

good4life said:


> FWIW, here are my





good4life said:


> @UberBlackDriverLA -
> 
> Ignoring your condescending tone, my earlier post acknowledges that depreciation is valid when you sell your asset. Until then it is a 'non-cash' expense.
> 
> ...


Another major mistake that you have made is the assumption that you get paid for every mile the vehicle moves. Realistically, at least a third of the miles that the vehicle moves will be dead miles without a paying customer in the car.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Another major mistake that you have made is the assumption that you get paid for every mile the vehicle moves. Realistically, at least a third of the miles that the vehicle moves will be dead miles without a paying customer in the car.


But you can still take those miles for the IRS mileage credit because you're still using your personal vehicle for business.


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## CowboyMC (Aug 26, 2014)

ElectroFuzz said:


> Yes, you did not count the unpaid miles.
> Not every mile out of the 24000 miles is a paid mile.
> Probably only half of it is paid.
> So:
> ...


You took the words right out of my mouth or Wish I said that. We need to educate Uber drivers about expenses. The car replacement is one of the biggest mistakes drivers forget about. And on the mileage, I usually run 2.4 times more then revenue miles. I never get a fare back from the drop-off, but 2 times is a good estimate. I get about 28 MPG and drive a low cost car (Toyota Corolla) to make ends meet.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

CowboyMC said:


> You took the words right out of my mouth or Wish I said that. We need to educate Uber drivers about expenses. The car replacement is one of the biggest mistakes drivers forget about. And on the mileage, I usually run 2.4 times more then revenue miles. I never get a fare back from the drop-off, but 2 times is a good estimate. I get about 28 MPG and drive a low cost car (Toyota Corolla) to make ends meet.


And don't forget to take the IRS-allowed 55.5 cents per mile personal vehicle allowance. That's how I've been able to expense better than $70K so far on a car I paid $18.5K for when new seven years ago. And since it costs me about 26 cents per mile to run that car (DOE estimates,) I make money before I ever collect a fare. I hope you're doing the same with your Corolla. Us folks who drive dependable econoboxes do pretty well on Uber/Lyft.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

CowboyMC said:


> You took the words right out of my mouth or Wish I said that. We need to educate Uber drivers about expenses. The car replacement is one of the biggest mistakes drivers forget about. And on the mileage, I usually run 2.4 times more then revenue miles. I never get a fare back from the drop-off, but 2 times is a good estimate. I get about 28 MPG and drive a low cost car (Toyota Corolla) to make ends meet.


I've gotten my paid mile/total mile ratio up to 53% by staying put as much as possible after a drop off.

The shortest distance to the next passenger is straight line, and I found that driving to a "hot spot" after a drop off was producing a lot of "triangle routes" between fares. What I mean by "triangle routes" is the point of the last drop off, the point of the hot spot and the point of the next pickup create a triangle, where I drove two legs of the triangle instead of the one. These "triangle routes" between fares produced a paid mile/total mile ratio of about 40%, which translated to your point of view is 2.5 times more than revenue miles. So I would assume if you are running 2.4 times revenue miles, then you are doing the "triangle routes" between fares. Not that there is anything wrong with that as long as you know you will need more fares due to the higher operating costs. Going to "hot spots" should in theory produce more fares. So this may in the end be a better profit producing process than what I'm doing now.

What I do to avoid the "triangle route" is to stay put as much as possible after a drop off. I don't ALWAYS do this. I assess the situation I'm in, and only move when I feel it's just a bad spot to be in. It may not be a "hot spot", but if I'm not competing with other Ubers for the area, and I think the area isn't a dead zone for demand, I just stay put instead of driving to a "hot spot". Overall I produce less revenue, but have reduced my costs to produce MORE profit, which is really the point. It does produce less trips per hour, which means more time not doing trips, but I have things I do when I'm not doing trips so I don't get bored waiting.

That being said, I read some statistics regarding NY city taxes, and they run a 61% paid mile/total mile ratio. So not only do cabs charge more per mile, their paid mile/total mile ratio is has even lower operating costs than my strategy producing a 53% ratio. This just shows me that Uber is not only profiting from drivers making less than cab drivers, Uber cars are producing more wasted miles on the road than taxi cabs do.


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## CowboyMC (Aug 26, 2014)

I work from my home and I return their after each trip unless I can get another ride before I reach home. I like to hang at home maybe watch some TV, while waiting for a ping. I don't recommend doing it my way. I know it's not the most efficient way but I don't do UberX to make a living.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> But you can still take those miles for the IRS mileage credit because you're still using your personal vehicle for business.


Yes, but you cannot claim revenue on all miles driven like he did in scenario. If he drove 24,000 miles, he doesnt get paid for 24000 miles. He just gets paid while a passenger is in the car.


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## CowboyMC (Aug 26, 2014)

Edmunds True Cost to Own data:
http://www.edmunds.com/tco.html?mkt...d=ga56677242&gclid=CKb61_7Wqb8CFUlqfgodiGEANQ


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Yes, but you cannot claim revenue on all miles driven like he did in scenario. If he drove 24,000 miles, he doesnt get paid for 24000 miles. He just gets paid while a passenger is in the car.


You don't have to have a pax in the car to claim miles for IRS.


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## DjTim (Oct 18, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> You don't have to have a pax in the car to claim miles for IRS.


That's what I was told by my tax guy as well. The only time that say you can't claim miles is, you drive to an "office" to sign in, and any miles after that can be claimed. Since we are using our homes as our established business, then you can claim start to finish with your driveway.

My tax guy did say, if you use like a P.O. box as your business address, or say rent a mail box at a UPS store, the IRS could go back on you saying that's your "official" business address, and that should be used as your start address.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> You don't have to have a pax in the car to claim miles for IRS.


I did not dispute that.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> I did not dispute that.


Excellent choice!


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