# Does this mean we have to split out our miles semi-annually now?



## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

How will this work on our tax returns????
Will the apps split out our earnings? I keep track of my earnings in excel daily. But what if I didn't?
And I do keep track of my miles in Stride.
And will we have to enter our earnings and miles twice?






IRS increases mileage rate for remainder of 2022 | Internal Revenue Service


IR-2022-124, June 9, 2022 — The Internal Revenue Service today announced an increase in the optional standard mileage rate for the final 6 months of 2022. Taxpayers may use the optional standard mileage rates to calculate the deductible costs of operating an automobile for business and certain...




www.irs.gov


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

It just gives you extra credit if your records are detailed.

I think my tax preparer claims under actual mileage.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

jaxbeachrides said:


> It just gives you extra credit if your records are detailed.
> 
> I think my tax preparer claims under actual mileage.


What do you mean by detailed? Itemized deivery expenses? Or just that you have kept track and take the standard mile deduction?


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

If you didn’t use a spreadsheet app, you would need a logbook. With handwritten logs, you have to add all the daily totals. People using logs would add together the miles before the rate change and after and multiply those totals by the correct rate then combine those products for the final deduction amount.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

I am curious how Turbotax will handle it.
Hey @Seamus you're the board financial guy. What do you think?


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

forqalso said:


> If you didn’t use a spreadsheet app, you would need a logbook. With handwritten logs, you have to add all the daily totals. People using logs would add together the miles before the rate change and after and multiply those totals by the correct rate then combine those products for the final deduction amount.


The reason I use Turbotax is that I am not a rocket scientist.
I love it!!!
add together the miles before the rate change and after and multiply those totals by the correct rate then combine those products for the final deduction amount.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Rickos69 said:


> I am curious how Turbotax will handle it.
> Hey @Seamus you're the board financial guy. What do you think?


Turbo tax will handle it no problem, I’ve already seen the tax year 2022 prototype. It will ask you how many miles you drove 1/1 to 6/30 and then ask you how many miles you drove 7/1 to 12/31. Essentially it will ask the question twice instead of the usual once.

I use “TripLog” as my mileage tracker/mileage log and they months ago updated the software to account for the mid year change.

Who knows what the gigs will do since they are under no obligation to track for you in the first place let alone accurately.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Seamus said:


> Turbo tax will handle it no problem, I’ve already seen the tax year 2022 prototype. It will ask you how many miles you drove 1/1 to 6/30 and then ask you how many miles you drove 7/1 to 12/31. Essentially it will ask the question twice instead of the usual once.
> 
> I use “TripLog” as my mileage tracker/mileage log and they months ago updated the software to account for the mid year change.
> 
> Who knows what the gigs will do since they are under no obligation to track for you in the first place let alone accurately.


Will they also ask how much I made for each six month period split up?
Or I guess, it doesn't matter. They will add the two mileage deductions and apply them to the total earnings?

I just did an export of my miles from Stride, asking for 1/1 to 6/30 and then from 7/1 to now, and I did the division of deductible amounts and they are actually using the old rate/mile for the first 6 months, and the new one from then to now, although Trubotax won't care about Stride's calculations. Just the miles.
So I guess, there really isn't any problem after all if you are keeping track of your miles in some way shape or form.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

Rickos69 said:


> The reason I use Turbotax is that I am not a rocket scientist.
> I love it!!!
> add together the miles before the rate change and after and multiply those totals by the correct rate then combine those products for the final deduction amount.


I don’t know what is so confusing or hilarious about adding the miles for two different rates separately. It’s the same thing you do with Excel, you just do it twice. It’s more hilarious that a grown man couldn’t come up with the solution on his own. The rate changed mid-year and you needed to ask how to handle it? Really? 
Don’t ask for help if you’re just going to mock the people that give you answer.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

forqalso said:


> I don’t know what is so confusing or hilarious about adding the miles for two different rates separately. It’s the same thing you do with Excel, you just do it twice. It’s more hilarious that a grown man couldn’t come up with the solution on his own. The rate changed mid-year and you needed to ask how to handle it? Really?
> Don’t ask for help if you’re just going to mock the people that give you answer.


I was joking, but...
Feel free to ignore me.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

forqalso said:


> I don’t know what is so confusing or hilarious about adding the miles for two different rates separately. It’s the same thing you do with Excel, you just do it twice. It’s more hilarious that a grown man couldn’t come up with the solution on his own. The rate changed mid-year and you needed to ask how to handle it? Really?
> Don’t ask for help if you’re just going to mock the people that give you answer.


Remember . . . When writing your Log books the night before doing taxes . . . To switch pen colors a few times . . .wrinkle pages . . . Spill some coffee.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> Remember . . . When writing your Log books the night before doing taxes . . . To switch pen colors a few times . . .wrinkle pages . . . Spill some coffee.


"My dog ate my homework, I can't find my original log sorry Mr. IRS Agent."

And pray...


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

It will be a sad day when the irs comes after uncompensated delivery drivers.

My dd 1099 last year was 13k. The standard deduction this year is 13k.

It would also be hard for them to prove you didn't put miles on a vehicle in order to make deliveries.


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## Ed Elivery (3 mo ago)

Handling this is trivial with pretty much any tax prep software.

I'm quite surprised no one here has mentioned the business mileage *amount *the feds have already decided (2 months before the end of the year...)

*Nearly all people who use their vehicle for business will have incurred far higher actual costs (total TCO/mile) than this 57.5- 62.5 cents. In any case, the point is that gas alone goes up 50% (insurance up 26% for me, far more for others, etc. etc.) and the mileage deduction hardly moves. *

This is just insulting and it's got to be a new low.

Where I live most people "hate the Gubmint." Geez, I wonder why...


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

I don't understand where you're getting 5 to 10 times the allowable deduction.

I spend around .07 cents per mile on gas, which is less than 1/8 the deduction.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

jaxbeachrides said:


> I don't understand where you're getting 5 to 10 times the allowable deduction.
> 
> I spend around .07 cents per mile on gas, which is less than 1/8 the deduction.


Hey Jax, correct me if I am wrong, but the deduction is in theory covering all your delivery expenses, like a standard dedution, and not only gas,
as opposed to itemizing.
Whether that is enough or not is the question.
Personally, I don't know. Never sat down to calculate it.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

I have Thoroughly examined my cost per mile last year it was $.27


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## Ed Elivery (3 mo ago)

Rickos69 said:


> Hey Jax, correct me if I am wrong, but the deduction is in theory covering all your delivery expenses, like a standard dedution, and not only gas,
> as opposed to itemizing.
> Whether that is enough or not is the question.
> Personally, I don't know. Never sat down to calculate it.


Correct, and I edited my post which I hastily made this morning. My apologies.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

The best thing I ever did 3 years now. Is stop being so turbo tax guy. And pay a tax pro. I been paying a tax pro now 3 years. I am not simple x. I pay like $600. Its worth it.....turbo tax offered to do mine for $250 after 6 1099,s and k....and misc. I was told sorry they cannot do it... what a break as with a new vehicle purchase, I was about to deduct alot


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

bobby747 said:


> The best thing I ever did 3 years now. Is stop being so turbo tax guy. And pay a tax pro. I been paying a tax pro now 3 years. I am not simple x. I pay like $600. Its worth it.....turbo tax offered to do mine for $250 after 6 1099,s and k....and misc. I was told sorry they cannot do it... what a break as with a new vehicle purchase, I was about to deduct alot


What version did you use? Just curious because I use Turbo Tax Home and Business and never had an issue. Mine are complex because of have several 1099's, W2, Capital Gains, Rental properties, a land lease and a few other things and never ran into an issue yet with that version.

Also, I know you have mentioned you had several vehicles over the years. Did you have to go thru the depreciation recapture? If you do I have a tip for you.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Rickos69 said:


> Hey Jax, correct me if I am wrong, but the deduction is in theory covering all your delivery expenses, like a standard dedution, and not only gas,
> as opposed to itemizing.
> Whether that is enough or not is the question.
> Personally, I don't know. Never sat down to calculate it.


The Standard Mileage Rate covers:
-Variable costs for vehicle operations such as gasoline, oil, tires, maintenance, and repairs.
-Fixed costs for vehicle operations such as insurance, registration, depreciation, etc.etc..

Using the standard rate you can actually end up depreciating your car more than the original value of it!


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

jaxbeachrides said:


> It would also be hard for them to prove you didn't put miles on a vehicle in order to make deliveries.


They don't have to prove that you didn't. The burden of proof is on you to provide sufficient evidence that you did.



Ed Elivery said:


> Nearly all people who use their vehicle for business will have incurred far higher actual costs (total TCO/mile) than this 57.5- 62.5 cents.


I don't think so. Most reasonably priced, reasonably efficient standard passenger vehicles cost significantly less than 50¢/mile to operate.



Ed Elivery said:


> This is just insulting and it's got to be a new low.


I don't understand what is insulting about it. If your actual operating expenses exceed what the standard mileage deduction allows, then use your actual operating expenses instead of the standard mileage deduction. That is completely legitimate and allowed.

On the list of ways in which the government screws me, this isn't one of them. The standard mileage deduction is overly generous for most drivers (myself included).


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

jaxbeachrides said:


> It will be a sad day when the irs comes after uncompensated delivery drivers.
> 
> My dd 1099 last year was 13k. The standard deduction this year is 13k.
> 
> It would also be hard for them to prove you didn't put miles on a vehicle in order to make deliveries.


87,000 new I.R.S. AGENTS.

BIDEN NEEDS NEW PRINTING PRESSES TO FURTHER DEVALUE THE DOLLAR.


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## Ed Elivery (3 mo ago)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> They don't have to prove that you didn't. The burden of proof is on you to provide sufficient evidence that you did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I get your points, and my actual cost is even lower than Seamus' but unfortunately we are not the majority here, I will just give you two examples, real quick, as food for thought.
1) A young guy I see around town from time to time proudly said to me the other day as we were waiting for the food "hey man, I'm getting 42mpg... 42!" Well... I drive the exact same hybrid and my average so far this year is 65.2mpg. In other words, gas costs alone are over half more than mine. His insurance is also more than twice what I pay.
2) A neighbor of mine is a hard-working guy who owns a small company. Because he contracts for a lot of loading and hauling on large projects, every single one of his vehicles is a big Ford diesel pickup truck, with 34 gallon tanks, which need refilling once to twice a week and he pays currently over $6/gallon (down for over $7 but still...) Do the math and you will see that each fill-up costs him over 200 bucks. Now do the math for all his vehicles and his monthly fuel cost is just astronomical. He is actually operating at a loss and he's thinking of just giving up.

Yup, that's right, the Gubmint itself says: "*the standard mileage rates for the use of a car (also vans, pickups or panel trucks*.)" Had you thought about that?

So yes, with the SMD at such a low and unfair level, they *are *screwing the little people, big time.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> 87,000 new I.R.S. AGENTS.
> 
> BIDEN NEEDS NEW PRINTING PRESSES TO FURTHER DEVALUE THE DOLLAR.





https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/09/30/strong-dollar-vs-pound-euro/










Why is the dollar so strong and what does it mean? | Fidelity


A strong dollar means the US's currency is doing well compared to other countries' money. Here's what that means for you.



www.fidelity.com












How Countries Should Respond to the Strong Dollar


Policy responses to currency depreciation pressures should focus on the drivers of the exchange-rate moves and signs of market disruptions



www.imf.org


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

forqalso said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/09/30/strong-dollar-vs-pound-euro/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The " strong dollar" is not buying the same amount of STRONGER meat & bread.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> The " strong dollar" is not buying the same amount of STRONGER meat & bread.


Well, like the right wingers love to tell McDonalds workers when they say they can’t afford to live on their pay, “Better yourself, get training and find a job where you can feed and house yourself, instead of complaining.”


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

forqalso said:


> Well, like the right wingers love to tell McDonalds workers when they say they can’t afford to live on their pay, “Better yourself, get training and find a job where you can feed and house yourself, instead of complaining.”


Meanwhile . . . Just 1 investment fund lost $50,000.00 since Jan.1.
$10,000.00 last quarter alone !

Yet the Dollar drops in value.

All investments are losing money all year Long.

Prices increase from one shopping trip to the next, EACH TIME.

PAY IS STAGNET THOUGH .

Exxon stock is paying good dividends . . .

The price of my Mc Doubles has gone up !


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

Things will get better, your investments will rebound.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

We hope.
Spending a fortune for home health 24/7 for my elderly mother . Hoping Biden does not ruin ability to do that.
This economy is eroding my ability to do that.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> We hope.
> Spending a fortune for home health 24/7 for my elderly mother . Hoping Biden does not ruin ability to do that.
> This economy is eroding my ability to do that.


We have no excuse as a country why people should have to worry about affording to take care of their health or that of their loved ones.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Ed Elivery said:


> A young guy I see around town from time to time proudly said to me the other day as we were waiting for the food "hey man, I'm getting 42mpg... 42!" Well... I drive the exact same hybrid and my average so far this year is 65.2mpg. In other words, gas costs alone are over half more than mine.


And in percentages that sounds really significant. On an absolute per-mile basis, though, what is the difference? If gas is $4/gal and he is getting 42 mpg, then his fuel cost is about 10¢ per mile. At 60 mpg, your fuel cost is about 7¢ per mile. At 80 mpg, your fuel cost would be 5¢ per mile. At 160 mpg, your fuel cost would be 2.5¢ per mile. There is a diminishing return in terms of ¢/mile with increasing mpg because it is a reciprocal relationship. Even at 20 mpg, the fuel cost would be 20¢/mile and leaves 35-40¢/mile for other vehicle costs before you reach what the standard mileage deduction allows. As you get below 20 mpg, each 1-mpg decrease has a bigger effect and costs you more per mile. Once you are up in the 40 mpg range, though, the increased gas mileage doesn't help you all that much unless gas becomes much more expensive.



Ed Elivery said:


> His insurance is also more than twice what I pay.


Insurance isn't something that is charged on a per-mile basis, though. (Unless you have per-mile insurance, in which case I would have to question why you are doing that if you are driving rideshare or delivery.) The best way to lower your per-mile insurance cost isn't to get a lower premium price. It is to drive more miles. The per-mile insurance costs are significantly lower for most delivery or rideshare drivers, even if they are paying higher annual premiums, just because of the amount of miles that they drive.

Also, unless you have a vehicle that you use solely for business and plan to get rid of if you are not using it for business, then insurance is a cost that you are going to have anyway, so allocating that as a cost of doing business doesn't make sense (even if you are allowed to deduct some of that cost as a business cost on your tax returns). What I consider my business insurance cost to be (for my own profit/loss calculations, not for taxes) is the difference between what I would pay for insurance if I wasn't doing rideshare or delivery and what I actually pay for insurance. That difference is the cost that I incur because of my business activities. It is trivial on a per-mile basis.



Ed Elivery said:


> A neighbor of mine is a hard-working guy who owns a small company. Because he contracts for a lot of loading and hauling on large projects, every single one of his vehicles is a big Ford diesel pickup truck, with 34 gallon tanks, which need refilling once to twice a week and he pays currently over $6/gallon (down for over $7 but still...)


Okay, now you are going outside the realm of rideshare and delivery. This is a perfect example of somebody that should be using actual expenses and _not_ the standard mileage deduction. When I talk about what is "typical" or "normal," I am speaking from the perspective of rideshare and delivery. I know that you just said "business use" and didn't specify rideshare or delivery, but I am looking at things through that lens because that is what this forum is about.

Once you move outside the realm of rideshare and delivery, yeah, there are a lot of vehicles that cost more than what the standard mileage deduction allows to operate, especially larger, less fuel efficient diesel vehicles that are primarily used for cargo and equipment hauling. Also, these vehicles generally have full commercial insurance, which is a lot more expensive than the insurance that a typical rideshare or delivery driver has. These vehicles are probably why the standard mileage deduction is as high as it is. The standard mileage deduction is set based on all business-use vehicles, which is what makes it such a generous deduction for rideshare and delivery drivers whose vehicles are not that expensive.



Ed Elivery said:


> Yup, that's right, the Gubmint itself says: "the standard mileage rates for the use of a car (also vans, pickups or panel trucks.)" Had you thought about that?


Yes. That is why I say that if you are driving a vehicle that is that expensive to operate, then you should not be using the standard mileage deduction, you should be using actual expenses. The standard mileage deduction is just an option. It is not required that anybody use it.



Ed Elivery said:


> So yes, with the SMD at such a low and unfair level, they are screwing the little people, big time.


No, they're not screwing anybody. If your actual expenses exceed the standard mileage deduction, then use your actual expenses.

You are correct that the standard mileage deduction is unfair, but not in the way that you are describing. The standard mileage deduction is unfair because it allows drives like you and me and Seamus to deduct way more than we should be allowed to. We get a significant amount of completely tax-free income because of how generous the standard deduction is. Increasing the standard deduction is just going to exacerbate that unfairness, though. If the standard mileage deduction is increased, then most rideshare and delivery drivers will get even more tax-free income. To truly make it fair, the IRS should get rid of the standard mileage deduction entirely and make everybody deduct actual expenses. I am not advocating for that; I am just saying that it is what would be fair.


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## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

forqalso said:


> View attachment 683859











Of course, the President does not get to vote on the budget, congress does.
Also, there is lag time and things like wars, stock market crashes, & Covid that affect results.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Seamus said:


> The Standard Mileage Rate covers:
> -Variable costs for vehicle operations such as gasoline, oil, tires, maintenance, and repairs.
> -Fixed costs for vehicle operations such as insurance, registration, depreciation, etc.etc..
> 
> Using the standard rate you can actually end up depreciating your car more than the original value of it!


How does one itemize then? I put way more miles on my car for personal than delivery (my VA trips), so for me, the Standard prolly makes more sense.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

Wil Mette said:


> View attachment 683948
> 
> Of course, the President does not get to vote on the budget, congress does.
> Also, there is lag time and things like wars, stock market crashes, & Covid that affect results.


No, the President doesn’t get to vote on the budget, but he is required by law to develop and submit annual budgets for Congress to vote on. 31 U.S. Code § 1104


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> How does one itemize then? I put way more miles on my car for personal than delivery (my VA trips), so for me, the Standard prolly makes more sense.


You track your miles the same way that you do now, but you also track your actual expenses (gas, maintenance, repairs, insurance, registration, etc.). At the end of the year, you take your business miles for the year and divide them by your total miles for the year to come up with a percentage. Then you multiply your actual expenses by that percentage to determine the amount for each item that is deductible as a business expense. This is called allocating your vehicle expenses between business use and personal use. (By the way, you are also supposed to do the same thing with your phone if you use your phone for both business and personal use and you want to deduct phone expenses.) You also set up a depreciation schedule for the vehicle and multiply your depreciation for the year by the same percentage. That determines your depreciation deduction.

The standard mileage deduction is much less work to calculate and requires much less recordkeeping (the IRS doesn't care how much you paid for tires and brakes if you are taking the standard mileage deduction). In addition, for most drivers, your deduction will be larger taking the standard mileage deduction than if you figured it using actual expenses anyway. So the extra work doesn't even result in a benefit for you.

It is not so much a function of how many business miles you have vs. how many personal miles, but more a function of how many _total_ miles you have. There are some costs, such as insurance and registration, that are flat rates and don't increase with mileage. If you don't drive very many miles, the per-mile rate on those will be much higher than if you drive a lot of miles. So for drivers with very low annual mileage, it might be to their benefit to use actual expenses instead.

By and large, though, actual expenses has the most benefits for drivers that have vehicles with high per-mile costs (large pickup trucks used for hauling equipment that get very low gas mileage and are also very expensive to purchase). Also drivers that have full commercial insurance policies, which are much more expensive. Myself personally, though, I don't even bother tracking actual expenses (for tax purposes) because I know without even doing the calculations that I get a greater benefit from the standard mileage deduction. I don't even need to check. This is true for most drivers that are doing rideshare or food delivery.


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