# Can someone explain this to me! Are we getting paid less, or customers paying too much?



## MKE120 (Sep 18, 2018)

Hello All,
This morning I gave a ride and the customer paid $28.89

Rider Pays

Rider Price
$25.89
Tip
$3.00
*Rider Payment
$28.89

Now, I know that $2.90 is the service fee. That's OK, and $3 is the tip. So taking the tip and the service fee:

$28.89 - $3 - $2.90 = $19.99

We are left with $19.99. Are we not supposed to split this 25/75 with Uber. Give or take some due to the fact that uber could have guessed more time and perhaps a mile or so more and have a fix fee.

*
Uber Receives

Service Fee
$12.36
Booking Fee
$2.90
*Total
$15.26*

You Receive

Distance (10.52 mi × $0.8700/mi)
$9.15
Time (13.24 min × $0.1125/min)
$1.48
Tip
$3.00
*Total
$13.63*

*---------------------------------------

Here why I'm confused. If Uber is doing 25/75, based on what I received, the customer should have been charged ($10.63/0.75+$2.90)-> $17.07 + $3.00 Tip; a grand total of $20.07*

so how come Uber charges the customer $28.89.

*

*


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Welcome to 2018, 2016... Upfront pricing took out the 25/75 commission split. You are paid per mile and per minute of your city rate. Pax is charged what uber tells them a ride will cost. Uber always had and will have the power to charge pax however much they want to charge them. Its their platform. As of the last 18 months, driver pay and pax charge have been disconnected as per your agreement with Uber.

Have You been living under a rock for 18 months?


----------



## MKE120 (Sep 18, 2018)

steveK2016 said:


> Have You been living under a rock for 18 months?


I 'm not a frequent driver. And yes, I have been living under the rock for that sense since I had not driven since Feb '16. Anyway, I saw my payouts, sometimes Uber loses money too (that 's they go under %25 in my case), but this estimate is not fair. It's like charging a surge to the customer and not reflecting on us. I disagree with your acceptance of whatever Uber can do. I think if there is a surge, all should benefit, not only Uber or Lyft. All in all, I'm happy to get paid what I get paid, and thank Uber for inventing this platform.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

MKE120 said:


> I 'm not a frequent driver. And yes, I have been living under the rock for that sense since I had not driven since Feb '16. Anyway, I saw my payouts, sometimes Uber loses money too (that 's they go under %25 in my case), but this estimate is not fair. It's like charging a surge to the customer and not reflecting on us. I disagree with your acceptance of whatever Uber can do. I think if there is a surge, all should benefit, not only Uber or Lyft. All in all, I'm happy to get paid what I get paid, and thank Uber for inventing this platform.


I never said the driver benefits from it.

Should the driver make more? Sure, but we dont have control of that. The only thing we control is whether or not we accept those terms and rates.


----------



## chris.nella2 (Aug 29, 2018)

I noticed it too..it appears to be in the neighborhood of the ole 50/50 split

(or at least down the street from it!!)


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

This is what you get paid:

Distance ($0.8700/mi)

Time ($0.1125/min)

Tip (???)

Every thing else goes to Uber


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

oldfart said:


> This is what you get paid:
> 
> Distance ($0.8700/mi)
> 
> ...


Yeah this is what the driver is paid. The customer price is compiled by dozens of robots shaking magic 8-balls.

I've seeen two people order an Uber from the same place to the same place at the same time and have a 20-25% price difference.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

MKE120 said:


> Hello All,
> This morning I gave a ride and the customer paid $28.89
> 
> Rider Pays
> ...


BOTH.
UBER the Middleman is playing Both Ends Against the Middle.

Skimming Passengers AND Drivers.


----------



## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> Welcome to 2018, 2016... Upfront pricing took out the 25/75 commission split. You are paid per mile and per minute of your city rate. Pax is charged what uber tells them a ride will cost. Uber always had and will have the power to charge pax however much they want to charge them. Its their platform. As of the last 18 months, driver pay and pax charge have been disconnected as per your agreement with Uber.
> 
> Have You been living under a rock for 18 months?


Drivers haven't been paid a 25/75 of the Fare in the entire 3 years I have been doing this. 
It has been 20/80 (or 25/75 for those that started after a specific date in 2015) of PER MILE/MINUTE and the base rate (charge just for the driver accepting the ride) and 0% of the Booking Fee.

the rest of what you wrote was correct, customer "Fare" and driver "Fare" are unrelated.



MKE120 said:


> Hello All,
> This morning I gave a ride and the customer paid $28.89
> 
> Rider Pays
> ...


You are completely mistaken on how this works.

Your pay is (Per Mile/Minute * (your percentage)) + (Base Rate * (your percentage)) + (any tip you are lucky enough to get)

Period (oh and any "promotions" your area may receive and any "surge" your area may still be lucky enough to get)


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Drivers haven't been paid a 25/75 of the Fare in the entire 3 years I have been doing this.
> It has been 20/80 (or 25/75 for those that started after a specific date in 2015) of PER MILE/MINUTE and the base rate (charge just for the driver accepting the ride) and 0% of the Booking Fee.
> 
> the rest of what you wrote was correct, customer "Fare" and driver "Fare" are unrelated.
> ...


I was in at 80%/20%.
That is the Deal i signed up to !


----------



## 155839 (Jul 28, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> I was in at 80%/20%.
> That is the Deal i signed up to !


That is what it should be. These ridehailing companies are gonna end up getting regulated because of all this BS.
Before ridehailing, the NYC alternative to yellow cabs were "car services", which were basically the same as Uber/Lyft, but pax requested rides using voice calls, instead of an app.
The standard industry pay ratio was 80/20 for drivers who used their own vehicles, and 50/50 for drivers who used company cars, plus tips. We need some regulation to get it to 80/20 again, as many of my rides are getting pretty f-ing close to 50/50.
If U/L can't make money skimming 20% off the top, then they are charging the riders too little and/or their operating costs are too high. (Corp headcount, salaries, real estate, IT, etc.)
They keep screwing the drivers, because they can. Drivers have no legal protection, other than not being deactivated for low AR. Something needs to be done at the regulatory level. Or, at least a big enough threat to cause action, like what happened with Amazon recently.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

We need an app. Designed BY DRIVERS
FOR. DRIVERS


----------



## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> I was in at 80%/20%.
> That is the Deal i signed up to !


Except that when you signed up, you never got any of the booking fee, so it was never a truly 80/20 split.


----------



## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> I was in at 80%/20%.
> That is the Deal i signed up to !


80/20 Of The Miles and Minutes...

We never received 80/20 of "total Fare charged to customer".

If that were true you would have received 0.00 when the rider had a free ride...


----------



## Pulledclear (Oct 31, 2017)

*Are we not supposed to split this 25/75

LOLOLOL! Where the **** have you been. Good luck trying to unionize these geniuses.*


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Upfront Pricing went into effect about April of last year. That's about when our 75/25 split disintegrated.

How is it you know about Uber allowing tips in the app but you don't know this???


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Drivers haven't been paid a 25/75 of the Fare in the entire 3 years I have been doing this.
> It has been 20/80 (or 25/75 for those that started after a specific date in 2015) of PER MILE/MINUTE and the base rate (charge just for the driver accepting the ride) and 0% of the Booking Fee.
> 
> the rest of what you wrote was correct, customer "Fare" and driver "Fare" are unrelated.
> ...


Markets may have changed gradually. Upfront pricing didnt affect me until around march 2016 ish if memory serves me correctly.


----------



## Reynob Moore (Feb 17, 2017)

Uber steals from us, always has and always will. I thought everyone knew that already.


----------



## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> Markets may have changed gradually. Upfront pricing didnt affect me until around march 2016 ish if memory serves me correctly.


Per miles per minute has nothing to do with up front pricing.

The OPs main confusion is thinking they were ever paid based on riders charges.

And, again, if drivers were paid based on this false assumption then drivers would make 0.00 when riders had free ride promotions


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

I think this is good long term
Eventually U/l can pay extra to the drivers( they will be forced ) or they can pay extra to good honest drivers...
If U/l gives out more $$ per ride, then more drivers sign up... you do not want that
Weed out the bad drivers, pay drivers that have a good history with U/L
... maybe at least 2000 rides as the minimum requirement for the extra $$
and a history of honesty

If 1 million good drivers, and pay them extra 3 dollars per ride= if total rides by the good drivers around 1.5 million rides per day=1.6 billion per year paid to the good drivers
Just going up 1 dollar to the passenger fee will recover 1 billiOn, total rides in the US around 2.5 million ( guess)
They have all the data to differentiate between good and non good drivers...
It will take them less Than 1/10 of a second
To pull that data out.

Another small change- if a pax gets rejected by a driver, and the second driver picks up the passenger, then the second driver gets extra $$$$ and the passenger will not be allowed to rate the second driver. That driver is doing the dirty work.


----------



## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

Where I come from, maximizing revenues and minimizing expenses is called "business". But, as 1974toyota would say, *JMO.*


----------



## MKE120 (Sep 18, 2018)

Dear All,
I think I could not get my point across. I know that since Uber/Lyfy or in short the ride share companies started to give fix prices as opposed to estimates, there would be inevitable GAP between the pre-set shared portions. 20/80 or 25/75.
There are acceptable and not acceptable variances between the actual and expected. What is an acceptable variance? Uber cannot give the estimate based on the shortest distance, will lose money. I say lose money because Uber has operating costs that they need to cover before making profits. All the real time transactions come at a cost. Not easy. My point was the amount deviation from the standard.
In my example, the rider was charged roughly $29 as opposed to $21. That is a 38% premium according to the drivers payment. To me, that's a bit too much of a gap. If the rider paid few extra bucks because it took less time, or I took a short cut, I undertand. But that 8 dollars is about 5 miles and a lot of minutes for a 10.52 mile ride. 

And, I do understand what I get paid, and I'm also aware that we get paid when there is a surge or shortage. If you realize Uber has introduced a "there is an unusual demand" feature to send you to a certain location. So, is it possible that they charge a surge to the customer, and not reflecting on us. That's what I'm wondering.

thx.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

MKE120 said:


> Dear All,
> I think I could not get my point across. I know that since Uber/Lyfy or in short the ride share companies started to give fix prices as opposed to estimates, there would be inevitable GAP between the pre-set shared portions. 20/80 or 25/75.
> There are acceptable and not acceptable variances between the actual and expected. What is an acceptable variance? Uber cannot give the estimate based on the shortest distance, will lose money. I say lose money because Uber has operating costs that they need to cover before making profits. All the real time transactions come at a cost. Not easy. My point was the amount deviation from the standard.
> In my example, the rider was charged roughly $29 as opposed to $21. That is a 38% premium according to the drivers payment. To me, that's a bit too much of a gap. If the rider paid few extra bucks because it took less time, or I took a short cut, I undertand. But that 8 dollars is about 5 miles and a lot of minutes for a 10.52 mile ride.
> ...


Yes, that does happen.

I have had pax complain about "Uber is charging me $60 for this ride!" and I am on a 2x surge, about to collect $24.


----------



## toyotarola (Apr 7, 2016)

I love the fresh outrage of this OP, when everyone else just got used to it over the last 18 months.


----------



## MKE120 (Sep 18, 2018)

OK. I figured this out. First of all, I realized that Lyft and Uber report in seperate formats. Lyft reports the $2.25 as a seperate line item in the earning report, but Uber I think includes the $2.25 in the Service fee. This is the in n out service fee to John Wayne Airport in ORange COunty.
So in my case, I put the origin and the destination in google maps. There was a 10.52 mile option and 17 mile option. It looks like Uber gave the price based on the longer route and it includes the $2.25. Had I taken the longer route, then we would have split around 20/80, which in my opinion is OK.

At the end of the day, the passenger pays more.


----------



## KingSolemon213 (Sep 15, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> BOTH.
> UBER the Middleman is playing Both Ends Against the Middle.
> 
> Skimming Passengers AND Drivers.


Apparently that's would appears to g the case.


----------



## UBERPROcolorado (Jul 16, 2017)

gaijinpen said:


> That is what it should be. These ridehailing companies are gonna end up getting regulated because of all this BS.
> Before ridehailing, the NYC alternative to yellow cabs were "car services", which were basically the same as Uber/Lyft, but pax requested rides using voice calls, instead of an app.
> The standard industry pay ratio was 80/20 for drivers who used their own vehicles, and 50/50 for drivers who used company cars, plus tips. We need some regulation to get it to 80/20 again, as many of my rides are getting pretty f-ing close to 50/50.
> If U/L can't make money skimming 20% off the top, then they are charging the riders too little and/or their operating costs are too high. (Corp headcount, salaries, real estate, IT, etc.)
> They keep screwing the drivers, because they can. Drivers have no legal protection, other than not being deactivated for low AR. Something needs to be done at the regulatory level. Or, at least a big enough threat to cause action, like what happened with Amazon recently.


Well explained.

I am not a fan of Gov regulation. But there is no option if Uber continues down it's current path.

Uber has hundreds of thousands of pissed off drivers roaming the streets of the US. If I were Dara I would be in crisis mode right now..... With my head down.


----------



## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

MKE120 said:


> Hello All,
> This morning I gave a ride and the customer paid $28.89
> 
> Rider Pays
> ...


--------------------------
There is an itemized breakdown in the app. Is this where you are getting these figures ?
Uber is charging the paxs $25.89 plus the $3.00 tip, which has no baring in the calculations.
You state *$28.89 - $3 - $2.90 = $19.99 Not correct. The figure is $22.99*


----------



## uberdude76 (May 26, 2018)

That's why I


mbd said:


> I think this is good long term
> Eventually U/l can pay extra to the drivers( they will be forced ) or they can pay extra to good honest drivers...
> If U/l gives out more $$ per ride, then more drivers sign up... you do not want that
> Weed out the bad drivers, pay drivers that have a good history with U/L
> ...


 That's why I try to keep my rating of 4.94 after 1500 rides up as much as possible because there might be a day where they weed the good from the bad!


----------



## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

MKE120 said:


> Hello All,
> This morning I gave a ride and the customer paid $28.89
> 
> Rider Pays
> ...


2018 going forward is the Year of The Long Haul. Remember to explain to each PAX why u are taking the long way. It is because we the drivers are in a tug of war between getting 70% or 50% of the total fare. Explain Uber gives them an upfront fair so I as a driver wants to get 70% of that so we are taking the most inefficient and longest route. Then u and the customer can talk about how dumb that is for Uber to encourage u as the driver to take the longest route so you get what you use to get paid 2-3 years ago. Uber logic...


----------

