# Waymo One passengers reveal what it's really like to ride in Alphabet's self-driving taxis



## Single Malt

https://www.businessinsider.com/waymo-one-riders-open-up-about-their-self-driving-experiences-2019-2

"In total, the pair have easily taken more than 100 rides in Waymo's cars - and they spoke candidly about how flawless the service already is, even with backup safety drivers still present in the driver's seat. Here's what they had to say:"

"It really works a lot like a lot of the other ride-hail services like Uber, Lyft and things like that," Metz, a 30-year-old operations manager, told Business Insider. "You just tell it where you want it to pick you up and then tell it where your destination is."

*"*One of the things that really surprised us is how nice the cars are inside," Metz said. "At first we were kind of neutral about it being a minivan - but actually, it's completely leather upholstered and surprisingly nice inside."


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## everythingsuber

“I can literally count on my hands the number of minutes that the safety driver has been driving,”

There's the thing. It's like saying “I can literally count on my hands the number of times that I would have ended up under a truck.” The safety drivers can not be required ever. Not once in 100,000 miles.
Not in any conditions. That's the level they need to get to to be anything other than a failure.


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## The Gift of Fish

Single Malt said:


> "In total, the pair have easily taken more than 100 rides in Waymo's cars - and they spoke candidly about how flawless the service already is..."


This part of the intro immediately exposes the author as an idiot. There is no "how flawless" something is. It is a superlative. Something is either flawless or it is not. It's like a woman being pregnant. Either she is or she is not. There is no, "She's quite pregnant today". Regarding the cars, the self driving car service is not flawless because safety drivers are still required.

The author then goes on to make a comparison between UberLyft and Waymo, describing amenities inside the cars:

_"There's a screen behind the front-seat headrest that's not unlike the Waymo One app. It shows GPS-navigation, destination, and a current mop."_

I have no mop in my car, current or otherwise. I have a couple of sponges and a cloth in the trunk, though.

Finally the author compares the cost of trips, seemingly celebrating that the cost to pax is lower on Waymo than on UberLyft, ignoring the fact that the prices charged by Waymo are just token amounts and do not reflect the cost of putting on the service. This is the final manifestation of the main mistake the author makes (other than grammar and basic typo-checking) - that of trying to compare, on level terms, a commercial operation in full production (UberLyft) with a development test-bed.

Shoddy journalism as usual from Business Insider.


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## goneubering

everythingsuber said:


> "I can literally count on my hands the number of minutes that the safety driver has been driving,"
> 
> There's the thing. It's like saying "I can literally count on my hands the number of times that I would have ended up under a truck." The safety drivers can not be required ever. Not once in 100,000 miles.
> Not in any conditions. That's the level they need to get to to be anything other than a failure.


But hey!! Leather upholstery.


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## ECOMCON

The Gift of Fish said:


> This part of the intro immediately exposes the author as an idiot. There is no "how flawless" something is. It is a superlative. Something is either flawless or it is not. It's like a woman being pregnant. Either she is or she is not. There is no, "She's quite pregnant today". Regarding the cars, the self driving car service is not flawless because safety drivers are still required.
> 
> The author then goes on to make a comparison between UberLyft and Waymo, describing amenities inside the cars:
> 
> _"There's a screen behind the front-seat headrest that's not unlike the Waymo One app. It shows GPS-navigation, destination, and a current mop."_
> 
> I have no mop in my car, current or otherwise. I have a couple of sponges and a cloth in the trunk, though.
> 
> Finally the author compares the cost of trips, seemingly celebrating that the cost to pax is lower on Waymo than on UberLyft, ignoring the fact that the prices charged by Waymo are just token amounts and do not reflect the cost of putting on the service. This is the final manifestation of the main mistake the author makes (other than grammar and basic typo-checking) - that of trying to compare, on level terms, a commercial operation in full production (UberLyft) with a development test-bed.
> 
> Shoddy journalism as usual from Business Insider.


Either "_Shoddy journalism"
Or
Shoddy Review by Non-Objective uber Driver _

non·ob·jec·tive
adjective: *non-objective*

1. (of a person or their judgment) influenced by personal feeling or opinions in considering and representing facts.


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## Single Malt

The Gift of Fish said:


> This part of the intro immediately exposes the author as an idiot. There is no "how flawless" something is. It is a superlative. Something is either flawless or it is not. It's like a woman being pregnant. Either she is or she is not. There is no, "She's quite pregnant today". Regarding the cars, the self driving car service is not flawless because safety drivers are still required.
> 
> The author then goes on to make a comparison between UberLyft and Waymo, describing amenities inside the cars:
> 
> _"There's a screen behind the front-seat headrest that's not unlike the Waymo One app. It shows GPS-navigation, destination, and a current mop."_
> 
> I have no mop in my car, current or otherwise. I have a couple of sponges and a cloth in the trunk, though.
> 
> Finally the author compares the cost of trips, seemingly celebrating that the cost to pax is lower on Waymo than on UberLyft, ignoring the fact that the prices charged by Waymo are just token amounts and do not reflect the cost of putting on the service. This is the final manifestation of the main mistake the author makes (other than grammar and basic typo-checking) - that of trying to compare, on level terms, a commercial operation in full production (UberLyft) with a development test-bed.
> 
> Shoddy journalism as usual from Business Insider.


Valid attempt. Granted you don't have much to work with because the naysayer mantra that SDC's are still ten years away is hanging by a thread, but until that last thread breaks I say stand your ground.


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## The Gift of Fish

ECOMCON said:


> Either "_Shoddy journalism"
> Or
> *Shoddy Review by Non-Objective uber Driver *_
> 
> non·ob·jec·tive
> adjective: *non-objective*
> 
> 1. (of a person or their judgment) influenced by personal feeling or opinions in considering and representing facts.


Are you talking about my review of the article, or your review of my review? It seems that you could be talking about either.

There is no evidence in what I wrote to denote that I am either a supporter of / believer in SDC or a detractor. My comments were factual and concerned only the author's poor journalistic ability.

Since you based your comment not on fact, as I did, I will assume, by definition, that you are talking about the non-objectivity in your post.


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## The Gift of Fish

Single Malt said:


> Valid attempt. Granted you don't have much to work with because the naysayer mantra that SDC's are still ten years away is hanging by a thread, but until that last thread breaks I say stand your ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 295297


I made no reference in my review of this article to how far away SDC are. The content of my review referenced only the article itself. The article, and my comments, concerned what is possible and happening in the SDC arena _now_. No inference regarding how far into the future I think SDC may/may not be can be made from my comments. Any attempt to extrapolate what I said and somehow apply it to SDC's future is therefore a failure.


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## Single Malt

The Gift of Fish said:


> I made no reference in my review of this article to how far away SDC are. The content of my review referenced only the article itself. The article, and my comments, concerned what is possible and happening in the SDC arena _now_. No inference regarding how far into the future I think SDC may/may not be can be made from my comments. Any attempt to extrapolate what I said and somehow apply it to SDC's future is therefore a failure.


"Finally the author compares the cost of trips, seemingly celebrating that the cost to pax is lower on Waymo than on UberLyft, ignoring the fact that the prices charged by Waymo are just token amounts and do not reflect the cost of putting on the service. This is the final manifestation of the main mistake the author makes (other than grammar and basic typo-checking) - that of trying to compare, on level terms, a commercial operation in full production (UberLyft) with a development test-bed."

Do you feel the author should also point out that Uber is subsidizing fares to the tune of 40 to 60 percent via investor cash?


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## The Gift of Fish

Single Malt said:


> "Finally the author compares the cost of trips, seemingly celebrating that the cost to pax is lower on Waymo than on UberLyft, ignoring the fact that the prices charged by Waymo are just token amounts and do not reflect the cost of putting on the service. This is the final manifestation of the main mistake the author makes (other than grammar and basic typo-checking) - that of trying to compare, on level terms, a commercial operation in full production (UberLyft) with a development test-bed."
> 
> Do you feel the author should also point out that Uber is subsidizing fares to the tune of 40 to 60 percent via investor cash?


Yes


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## Single Malt

The Gift of Fish said:


> This part of the intro immediately exposes the author as an idiot. There is no "how flawless" something is. It is a superlative. Something is either flawless or it is not. It's like a woman being pregnant. Either she is or she is not. There is no, "She's quite pregnant today". Regarding the cars, the self driving car service is not flawless because safety drivers are still required.
> 
> The author then goes on to make a comparison between UberLyft and Waymo, describing amenities inside the cars:
> 
> _"There's a screen behind the front-seat headrest that's not unlike the Waymo One app. It shows GPS-navigation, destination, and a current mop."_
> 
> I have no mop in my car, current or otherwise. I have a couple of sponges and a cloth in the trunk, though.
> 
> Finally the author compares the cost of trips, seemingly celebrating that the cost to pax is lower on Waymo than on UberLyft, ignoring the fact that the prices charged by Waymo are just token amounts and do not reflect the cost of putting on the service. This is the final manifestation of the main mistake the author makes (other than grammar and basic typo-checking) - that of trying to compare, on level terms, a commercial operation in full production (UberLyft) with a development test-bed.
> 
> Shoddy journalism as usual from Business Insider.


What is your critique of this Business Insider article?

https://www.businessinsider.com/tra...n-self-driving-cars-future-driver-jobs-2016-8

Kalanick: "So if that's happening, what would happen if we weren't a part of that future? If we weren't part of the autonomy thing? Then the future passes us by basically, in a very expeditious and efficient way," he said.

"If we are not tied for first, then the person who is in first, or the entity that's in first, then rolls out a ride-sharing network that is far cheaper or far higher-quality than Uber's, then Uber is no longer a thing," Kalanick said.


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## The Gift of Fish

Single Malt said:


> What is your critique of this Business Insider article?
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/tra...n-self-driving-cars-future-driver-jobs-2016-8


Skimming through it, it seems to be error-free in terms of grammar, without glaring amateurish clangers, and the author manages to express him/herself lucidly without bias.


> Kalanick: "So if that's happening, what would happen if we weren't a part of that future? If we weren't part of the autonomy thing? Then the future passes us by basically, in a very expeditious and efficient way," he said.
> 
> "If we are not tied for first, then the person who is in first, or the entity that's in first, then rolls out a ride-sharing network that is far cheaper or far higher-quality than Uber's, then Uber is no longer a thing," Kalanick said.


It seems the mistake Kalanick made personally was not worrying what would happen if Uber was not part of an autonomous future, but what would happen if he was not part of Uber.


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## Single Malt

everythingsuber said:


> There's the thing. It's like saying "I can literally count on my hands the number of times that I would have ended up under a truck."


Actually it's not. The safety drivers are not taking over for safety related issues because there are none. They took over a handful of times out of convenience, such as as a parking lot, to help speeds things up as opposed to waiting for permission from the command center to proceed. Soon they'll pull the safety drivers and rely on the command center to unstick the car. As with most trips the car drove entirely by itself in this video


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## ECOMCON

The Gift of Fish said:


> Skimming through it, it seems to be error-free in terms of grammar, without glaring amateurish clangers, and the author manages to express him/herself lucidly without bias.​It seems the mistake Kalanick made personally was not worrying what would happen if Uber was not part of an autonomous future, but what would happen if he was not part of Uber.


Trust me, as founder with a personal worth of $4 billion, Kalanick is still very much on Dara Khosrowshahi speed dial.
I seriously seriously doubt Uber executive suite decisions are being made without TK input.

In the world of the rich and influential Kalanick is a celebrity & rock star. I understand the working poor driver disdain for him, but drivers are a non factor and frankly not part of uber's Future plans.










Please attempt to reply without childish emotional outburst and personal attack.
I'm very sensitive​


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## The Gift of Fish

ECOMCON said:


> Please attempt to reply without childish emotional outburst and personal attack.
> I'm very sensitive​


Don't worry; you won't need to access your safe space for the duration of this post.



> Kalanick is still very much on Dara Khosrowshahi speed dial.


I doubt that. In 2017, as part of his new power consolidation efforts, Dara pushed through changes to dilute Kalanick's own power. These included:

Converting Kalanick's founders' shares (that previously had 10x the voting rights) into ordinary shares
Adding 6 further board members (up from 11)
Requiring two-thirds vote from the board for future elections of CEO
Dara pushed for, and acheived these changes, which effectively curtailed Kalanick's influence in the company. The two men are rivals, and certainly not "on each other's speed dial".



> In the world of the rich and influential Knick is a celebrity & rock star. I understand the working poor driver disdain for him, but drivers are a non factor and frankly not part of uber's Future plans.


I don't think it's just we working poor who have disdain for him. Pax also do. Among phrases never heard in a rideshare car by pax: "How about that Travis guy, huh? What a guy!". In fact, I can't think of any time when that's been said by anyone.

Drivers are a non-factor in what? We're certainly a factor in Uber generating billions in losses every year. They couldn't do it without us! As far as drivers not being part of Uber's future plans, that may be true. That's fine, though; Uber isn't part of mine either.
​


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## ECOMCON

The Gift of Fish said:


> Don't worry; you won't need to access your safe space for the duration of this post.
> I doubt that. In 2017, as part of his new power consolidation efforts, Dara pushed through changes to dilute Kalanick's own power. These included:
> 
> Converting Kalanick's founders' shares (that previously had 10x the voting rights) into ordinary shares
> Adding 6 further board members (up from 11)
> Requiring two-thirds vote from the board for future elections of CEO
> Dara pushed for, and acheived these changes, which effectively curtailed Kalanick's influence in the company. The two men are rivals, and certainly not "on each other's speed dial".
> I don't think it's just we working poor who have disdain for him. Pax also do. Among phrases never heard in a rideshare car by pax: "How about that Travis guy, huh? What a guy!". In fact, I can't think of any time when that's been said by anyone.
> 
> Drivers are a non-factor in what? We're certainly a factor in Uber generating billions in losses every year. They couldn't do it without us! As far as drivers not being part of Uber's future plans, that may be true. That's fine, though; Uber isn't part of mine either.
> ​


And now I have more information 
Ho....Ho....Ho


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## The Gift of Fish

ECOMCON said:


> And now I have more information
> Ho....Ho....Ho


Use it wisely.


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## tohunt4me

They wont be Neat
Nice
Or Clean for Long !


everythingsuber said:


> "I can literally count on my hands the number of minutes that the safety driver has been driving,"
> 
> There's the thing. It's like saying "I can literally count on my hands the number of times that I would have ended up under a truck." The safety drivers can not be required ever. Not once in 100,000 miles.
> Not in any conditions. That's the level they need to get to to be anything other than a failure.


----------



## BigBadJohn

Those who fear SDC's probably feared going from kindergarten to the 1st grade. Eventually, they'll get over it.


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## The Gift of Fish

BigBadJohn said:


> Those who fear SDC's probably feared going from kindergarten to the 1st grade. Eventually, they'll get over it.


I don't see any fear of SDCs, at least not by anyone posting here. Which posts on this site show fear? Or do you mean that you see it elsewhere?


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## ECOMCON

Neo-Luddism is a leaderless movement of non-affiliated groups who resist
modern technologies
and dictate a return of some
or all technologies to a more primitive level.

Neo-Luddites are characterized by one or more of the following practices: passively abandoning the use of technology
trolling chat rooms 
harming those who produce technology
advocating simple living, or
sabotaging technology.

The modern neo-Luddite movement has connections with the anti-globalization movement, anti-science movement, anarcho-primitivism, radical environmentalism, and Rejection of autonomous vehicles & robot delivery alternatives


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## tohunt4me

ECOMCON said:


> Neo-Luddism is a leaderless movement of non-affiliated groups who resist
> modern technologies
> and dictate a return of some
> or all technologies to a more primitive level.
> 
> Neo-Luddites are characterized by one or more of the following practices: passively abandoning the use of technology
> trolling chat rooms
> harming those who produce technology
> advocating simple living, or
> sabotaging technology.
> 
> The modern neo-Luddite movement has connections with the anti-globalization movement, anti-science movement, anarcho-primitivism, radical environmentalism, and Rejection of autonomous vehicles & robot delivery alternatives


The UNA BOMBER WAS A " PROPHET "!


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## ECOMCON

tohunt4me said:


> The UNA BOMBER WAS A " PROPHET "!


Ho...Ho....Ho


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## everythingsuber

BigBadJohn said:


> Those who fear SDC's probably feared going from kindergarten to the 1st grade. Eventually, they'll get over it.


Its not fear its being bored with delusional articles about automomus vehicles. This journalist swallowed propaganda fed to him while being completely clueless about how difficult it is to get to the level of a human driver.

Perhaps you can give a date for automomus vehicles to be on the market. This particular passenger has done maybe 200 miles and let's say she has seen the drivers take over 10 times?

My maths says every 20 miles she ends up under a bus without human intervention?

Maybe next year it will be 25 miles?

The year after 30 miles?

And so on until you get to about 1.5 million miles safely.

Then you have to be able to mass produce these vehicles and at a price people can afford.

So give me a date?


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## ECOMCON

everythingsuber said:


> Its not fear its being bored with delusional articles about automomus vehicles. This journalist swallowed propaganda fed to him while being completely clueless about how difficult it is to get to the level of a human driver.
> 
> Perhaps you can give a date for automomus vehicles to be on the market. This particular passenger has done maybe 200 miles and let's say she has seen the drivers take over 10 times?
> 
> My maths says every 20 miles she ends up under a bus without human intervention?
> 
> Maybe next year it will be 25 miles?
> 
> The year after 30 miles?
> 
> And so on until you get to about 1.5 million miles safely.
> 
> Then you have to be able to mass produce these vehicles and at a price people can afford.
> 
> So give me a date?


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## Single Malt

everythingsuber said:


> Its not fear its being bored with delusional articles about automomus vehicles. This journalist swallowed propaganda fed to him while being completely clueless about how difficult it is to get to the level of a human driver.
> 
> Perhaps you can give a date for automomus vehicles to be on the market. This particular passenger has done maybe 200 miles and let's say she has seen the drivers take over 10 times?
> 
> My maths says every 20 miles she ends up under a bus without human intervention?
> 
> Maybe next year it will be 25 miles?
> 
> The year after 30 miles?
> 
> And so on until you get to about 1.5 million miles safely.
> 
> Then you have to be able to mass produce these vehicles and at a price people can afford.
> 
> So give me a date?


Months ago.

"Beer, the younger of the two drivers we spoke to, says he's convinced the cars are ready to face the road on their own.
"In instances like the left turn, I understand why the safety drivers are there," he said. "But I can tell it's improving and I would personally be comfortable with [no driver.]"


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## BigBadJohn

Waymo has already logged over10MM fatility free autonomous driven miles. Not sure what your magic number needs to be. Quite baffled actually.


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## iheartuber

Look guys I’ll make it very simple, because the only way you know how to debate me is to nitpick what I say, deflect, make a dumb joke, insult, etc

So here it is:

If Robo taxis ever put Uber out of business then talk to me. Til then there is nothing to talk about. And quite frankly there is zero evidence apart from your schoolgirl fantasies that it will ever happen.


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## everythingsuber

BigBadJohn said:


> Waymo has already logged over10MM fatility free autonomous driven miles. Not sure what your magic number needs to be. Quite baffled actually.


The number of miles drive by humans without serious accident vs the number of miles driven continuously by Waymo without a driver intervening to prevent an accident. 
You would be dead in an hour at present.
10 million? That's really cool. 5 trillion miles are driven every year in the USA with a minor accident every 500,000 miles driven by humans. Regulators want 6 billion miles of data from Waymo before they take any data seriously. Think Waymo points out that's their entire fleet driving 24 hours a day for 15 years. 10 million miles Waymo have driven with drivers still needing to take over every 15-20 miles in perfect conditions and they still pack the cars up when it rains is according to residents who live in the test area is not actually a safety tick.


Single Malt said:


> Months ago.
> 
> "Beer, the younger of the two drivers we spoke to, says he's convinced the cars are ready to face the road on their own.
> "In instances like the left turn, I understand why the safety drivers are there," he said. "But I can tell it's improving and I would personally be comfortable with [no driver.]"


14 year old thinks it's cool. Let's go then.


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## BigBadJohn

3287 humans die daily in car crashes that are driven by humans.


BigBadJohn said:


> 3287 humans die daily in car crashes that are driven by humans.


Of that 102 die daily in the US for a whopping 37,260 deaths annually by our fellow citizens. Autonomous vehicles can't arrive fast enough


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## everythingsuber

BigBadJohn said:


> 3287 humans die daily in car crashes that are driven by humans.


As opposed to the 108471 humans who would die daily in car crashes in cars driven by robots if we applied the current accident numbers of accidents being 33 times more likely with robots driving on available data.

You need to create a robot that can play basketball as well as LeBron or be a better quarterback than Brady to have a robot that can drive as well as a human. It is that hard.


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## iheartuber

BigBadJohn said:


> 3287 humans die daily in car crashes that are driven by humans.
> 
> Of that 102 die daily in the US for a whopping 37,260 deaths annually by our fellow citizens. Autonomous vehicles can't arrive fast enough


That's globally.

You gonna bring the robo taxi revolution to the entire world? You can't even bring it to Phoenix, AZ properly


BigBadJohn said:


> 3287 humans die daily in car crashes that are driven by humans.
> 
> Of that 102 die daily in the US for a whopping 37,260 deaths annually by our fellow citizens. Autonomous vehicles can't arrive fast enough


BigBadJohn on his next job interview:

"So yeah in my last job I promoted robo taxi propaganda on an Uber driver chat room. I wasn't successful at changing minds but that wasn't my fault. "


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## BigBadJohn

Just stating the unfortunate statistics unlike 1 poster pulling dire numbers out of a hat trying to convince others that robots are evil and are pre-programmed to kill. Simply not true. Statistics prove otherwise. Robots are here to stay and will continue to take away repetitive low IQ jobs such as those that require nothing more than holding onto a steering wheel.


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## iheartuber

BigBadJohn said:


> Just stating the unfortunate statistics unlike 1 poster pulling dire numbers out of a hat trying to convince others that robots are evil and are pre-programmed to kill. Simply not true. Statistics prove otherwise. Robots are here to stay and will continue to take away repetitive low IQ jobs such as those that require nothing more than holding onto a steering wheel.


Maybe if you did more than 450 lifetime rides when you moonlighted as an Uber driver you would like driving


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## BigBadJohn

The same was said to Henry Ford by the Elmer the long time buggy maker. Elmer just couldn't accept the modernization of the transportation industry. Elmer was certain the crazy horseless carriages were doomed right from the start. No one would ever get into one of those crazy contraptions. A carriage without a horse to guide it? It's science fiction he cried! It'll never happen he proclaimed! 
Funny how history tends to repeat itself over and over.


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## iheartuber

BigBadJohn said:


> The same was said to Henry Ford by the Elmer the long time buggy maker. Elmer just couldn't accept the modernization of the transportation industry. Elmer was certain the crazy horseless carriages were doomed right from the start. No one would ever get into one of those crazy contraptions. A carriage without a horse to guide it? It's science fiction he cried! It'll never happen he proclaimed!
> Funny how history tends to repeat itself over and over.


Horse and buggy- driven by a human

Henry Ford's cars-- driven by a human

Not the same as your robots


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## BigBadJohn

Horse and buggy - obsolete

Henry Fords cars - fully atonomous by 2022 (possibly 2021)


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## uberdriverfornow

> "In instances like the left turn, I understand why the safety drivers are there," he said. "But I can tell it's improving and I would personally be comfortable with [no driver.]"


That makes no sense whatsoever. If there is ANY doubt during a supposed ride that there's an issue making a left hand turn then obviously you would not be comfortable with no driver.

And as usual there is no video whatsoever of this supposed ride even happening.

So as usual it's likely a fake story as there still is no proof. They supposedly took a couple pictures but for some strange reason no video whatsoever.

BS


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## iheartuber

uberdriverfornow said:


> That makes no sense whatsoever. If there is ANY doubt during a supposed ride that there's an issue making a left hand turn then obviously you would not be comfortable with no driver.
> 
> And as usual there is no video whatsoever of this supposed ride even happening.
> 
> So as usual it's likely a fake story as there still is no proof. They supposedly took a couple pictures but for some strange reason no video whatsoever.
> 
> BS


These people just got a full year of free rides.

Of. COURSE they're gonna have good things to say


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## Slim Pete

Single Malt said:


> Months ago.
> 
> "Beer, the younger of the two drivers we spoke to, says he's convinced the cars are ready to face the road on their own.
> "In instances like the left turn, I understand why the safety drivers are there," he said. "But I can tell it's improving and I would personally be comfortable with [no driver.]"


What else do you expect him to say? Naturally he is going to sing his employer's praises.. Use some common sense. True 100% self-driving cars are decades away.


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## goneubering

iheartuber said:


> These people just got a full year of free rides.
> 
> Of. COURSE they're gonna have good things to say


I'm waiting for FREE rides in LA. How many years will I have to wait? 5? 10? 15?? 20??!!


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## ECOMCON

Slim Pete said:


> What else do you expect him to say? Naturally he is going to sing his employer's praises.. Use some common sense. True 100% self-driving cars are decades away.


You're in a state of denial.
Understandable considering ur circumstances, age & finances.
If by "decades" ur implying 10 days I must agree.
Governments, insurance companies, 75 million millennials and the wealthy want SDC. And SDC is what they shall have.

https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-aurora-self-driving-investment-funding-series-b/


goneubering said:


> I'm waiting for FREE rides in LA. How many years will I have to wait? 5? 10? 15?? 20??!!


Soon to be homeless don't get free rides


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## Slim Pete

everythingsuber said:


> The number of miles drive by humans without serious accident vs the number of miles driven continuously by Waymo without a driver intervening to prevent an accident.
> You would be dead in an hour at present.
> 10 million? That's really cool. 5 trillion miles are driven every year in the USA with a minor accident every 500,000 miles driven by humans. Regulators want 6 billion miles of data from Waymo before they take any data seriously. Think Waymo points out that's their entire fleet driving 24 hours a day for 15 years. 10 million miles Waymo have driven with drivers still needing to take over every 15-20 miles in perfect conditions and they still pack the cars up when it rains is according to residents who live in the test area is not actually a safety tick.
> 
> 14 year old thinks it's cool. Let's go then.


I agree with everything you have written.

Elon Musk himself has said that developing 99% of the technology for self-driving cars is the easy part. It's the final 1% that really takes up 99% of the time. Currently we are nowhere near even 50%. So we have a long way to go.


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## ECOMCON

Slim Pete said:


> I agree with everything you have written.
> 
> Elon Musk himself has said that developing 99% of the technology for self-driving cars is the easy part. It's the final 1% that really takes up 99% of the time. Currently we are nowhere near even 50%. So we have a long way to go.


I always find it fascinating that a person some would mock will be quoted when it supports their personal position. Sorry, no Sale


----------



## Slim Pete

ECOMCON said:


> You're in a state of denial.
> Understandable considering ur circumstances, age & finances.


No I'm not. My circumstances are pretty okay, I'm still in my thirties, and regarding finances, I have more free and clear real estate ownership than you will ever be able to dream of. So thanks for making yet more stupid assumptions.


----------



## UberLaLa

everythingsuber said:


> "I can literally count on my hands the number of minutes that the safety driver has been driving,"
> 
> There's the thing. It's like saying "I can literally count on my hands the number of times that I would have ended up under a truck." The safety drivers can not be required ever. Not once in 100,000 miles.
> Not in any conditions. That's the level they need to get to to be anything other than a failure.


Or I can literally count on my one hand the number of times I almost died in an airplane crash! lol


----------



## ECOMCON

UberLaLa said:


> Or I can literally count on my one hand the number of times I almost died in an airplane crash! lol


----------



## BetterGet5Stars

The Gift of Fish said:


> Don't worry; you won't need to access your safe space for the duration of this post.
> I doubt that. In 2017, as part of his new power consolidation efforts, Dara pushed through changes to dilute Kalanick's own power. These included:
> 
> Converting Kalanick's founders' shares (that previously had 10x the voting rights) into ordinary shares
> Adding 6 further board members (up from 11)
> Requiring two-thirds vote from the board for future elections of CEO
> Dara pushed for, and acheived these changes, which effectively curtailed Kalanick's influence in the company. The two men are rivals, and certainly not "on each other's speed dial".
> I don't think it's just we working poor who have disdain for him. Pax also do. Among phrases never heard in a rideshare car by pax: "How about that Travis guy, huh? What a guy!". In fact, I can't think of any time when that's been said by anyone.
> 
> Drivers are a non-factor in what? We're certainly a factor in Uber generating billions in losses every year. They couldn't do it without us! As far as drivers not being part of Uber's future plans, that may be true. That's fine, though; Uber isn't part of mine either.
> ​


in a company with no buildings, no assets, no expenses whatsoever and a massive daily income of billions worldwide, if they are losing billions there should be some people in jail. and we need laws and recourses to prevent the working masses from being criminally exploited by our 'owners'


----------



## ECOMCON

BetterGet5Stars said:


> in a company with no buildings, no assets, no expenses whatsoever and a massive daily income of billions worldwide, if they are losing billions there should be some people in jail. and we need laws and recourses to prevent the working masses from being criminally exploited by our 'owners'


using your logic ALL members of congress should be incarcerated
for our nation's debt


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## goneubering

Slim Pete said:


> No I'm not. My circumstances are pretty okay, I'm still in my thirties, and regarding finances, I have more free and clear real estate ownership than you will ever be able to dream of. So thanks for making yet more stupid assumptions.


Welcome to Tomatoville where logic gets thrown out the window. He's just trolling now because his previous SDC predictions have failed.


----------



## ECOMCON

goneubering said:


> Welcome to Tomatoville where logic gets thrown out the window. He's just trolling now because his previous SDC predictions have failed.


The fallback of the weak in deep waters
Shout:
Troll!
Troll!
Troll!

Sad


----------



## UberLaLa

ECOMCON said:


>


Now we know who is behind that Mask...


----------



## Who is John Galt?

BigBadJohn said:


> Those who fear SDC's probably feared going from kindergarten to the 1st grade. Eventually, they'll get over it.


Why are they called Self Driving Cars when the aren't?

.


----------



## iheartuber

Who is John Galt? said:


> Why are they called Self Driving Cars when the aren't?
> 
> .


Are you referring to the fact that all
self Driving Cars currently on the road today have a safety driver at the wheel for times when he has to take over? Good question. Maybe someone who's not a naysayer can answer that.


----------



## Who is John Galt?

iheartuber said:


> Are you referring to the fact that all
> self Driving Cars currently on the road today have a safety driver at the wheel for times when he has to take over? Good question. Maybe someone who's not a naysayer can answer that.


Yeah, or maybe even a real person here who has actually been inside one of these 'Self Driving Cars' with (pretend you don't see me) 'program director' onboard.

I can't help but think of auto pilot Otto from the 1980 movie 'Airplane!' and now here we are nearly 40 years later still with pilots onboard.


----------



## goneubering

Who is John Galt? said:


> Why are they called Self Driving Cars when the aren't?
> 
> .


It's FOMO. Fear Of Missing Out on the next big thing. Intel created much of this craziness when they came out with the notion of a potential $7 Trillion dollar market!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...rillion-economy-a-possible-underestimate/amp/


goneubering said:


> It's FOMO. Fear Of Missing Out on the next big thing. Intel created much of this craziness when they came out with the notion of a potential $7 Trillion dollar market!!
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...rillion-economy-a-possible-underestimate/amp/


The catch is that the technology has to work for SDCs to make a significant impact.


----------



## dirtylee

I dont fear SDC's. I want them. Too many "public citizens" shouldn't be driving. All these close calls keep scaring me. The jobs that they will take, otoh, will burn the country down.


----------



## iheartuber

dirtylee said:


> I dont fear SDC's. I want them. Too many "public citizens" shouldn't be driving. All these close calls keep scaring me. The jobs that they will take, otoh, will burn the country down.


I think SDCs inside a gated retirement community is a great idea


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## BigBadJohn

Elmer the buggy maker complained to Henry Ford with the same concern. Henry!, Elmer yelled, your horseless carriages will put me and all other buggy makers out of business! You will kill us all! Henry, being the brilliant man that he was calmly explained to Elmer, where one opportunity closes, 1000 more open. The lesson Elmer learned was to look forward and not to live in yesteryear. Elmer went on to create a fortune investing in horseless carriage stocks. Elmer achieved this with only a 3rd grade edumacation. If Elmer can do, so can you!


----------



## iheartuber

BigBadJohn said:


> Elmer the buggy maker complained to Henry Ford with the same concern. Henry!, Elmer yelled, your horseless carriages will put me and all other buggy makers out of business! You will kill us all! Henry, being the brilliant man that he was calmly explained to Elmer, where one opportunity closes, 1000 more open. The lesson Elmer learned was to look forward and not to live in yesteryear. Elmer went on to create a fortune investing in horseless carriage stocks. Elmer achieved this with only a 3rd grade edumacation. If Elmer can do, so can you!


@tomatopaste


BigBadJohn said:


> Elmer the buggy maker complained to Henry Ford with the same concern. Henry!, Elmer yelled, your horseless carriages will put me and all other buggy makers out of business! You will kill us all! Henry, being the brilliant man that he was calmly explained to Elmer, where one opportunity closes, 1000 more open. The lesson Elmer learned was to look forward and not to live in yesteryear. Elmer went on to create a fortune investing in horseless carriage stocks. Elmer achieved this with only a 3rd grade edumacation. If Elmer can do, so can you!


So when is human car driving going to be rendered obsolete? Next year? Two years? 50 Years?

I need to know so I can plan

Give me an exact year please


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## BigBadJohn

Have you learned NOTHING from Elmer?


----------



## Launchpad McQuack

BigBadJohn said:


> The same was said to Henry Ford by the Elmer the long time buggy maker. Elmer just couldn't accept the modernization of the transportation industry. Elmer was certain the crazy horseless carriages were doomed right from the start. No one would ever get into one of those crazy contraptions. A carriage without a horse to guide it?





BigBadJohn said:


> Elmer the buggy maker complained to Henry Ford with the same concern. Henry!, Elmer yelled, your horseless carriages will put me and all other buggy makers out of business! You will kill us all! Henry, being the brilliant man that he was calmly explained to Elmer, where one opportunity closes, 1000 more open.


So which is it? Did Elmer proclaim that nobody would ever get in one of those crazy contraptions, or did Elmer complain that those crazy contraptions were going to put the buggy makers out of business?



BigBadJohn said:


> Have you learned NOTHING from Elmer?


I've learned to take my schizo meds.



BigBadJohn said:


> Funny how history tends to repeat itself over and over.


Especially when it's history that you just make up on the spot to fit whatever point you're trying to make at the moment.


----------



## BigBadJohn

Just like some of you, Elmer had several meltdowns along the way before his acceptance of the new modern era.


----------



## goneubering

Launchpad McQuack said:


> I've learned to take my schizo meds.
> 
> Especially when it's history that you just make up on the spot to fit whatever point you're trying to make at the moment.


Indeed.


iheartuber said:


> I think SDCs inside a gated retirement community is a great idea


That niche actually might work.


----------



## ECOMCON

goneubering said:


> Indeed.
> 
> That niche actually might work.


Wish u guys would learn how to research be4 confirming ur vast lack of SDC knowledge and purely emotional positions.

SDC in retirement communities It's already working and just the beginning

Nov 2018,

Voyage inc, ran its first self-driving tests in a tiny retirement community in San Jose with just 4k residents and 15 miles of roads, but it had bigger dreams - so, it reached out to The Villages.

Next, The 126k retirees living in Florida's largest and most convenient retirement community, The Villages, are living the dream.

The mega-development features 648 holes of golf, 100 pickleball courts, more than 100 restaurants, and 2700 social clubs (including 130 exclusively for singles) - all just a golf cart ride away on The Villages' 750+ miles of pristine roads.

https://thehustle.co/florida-retirement-home-self-driving-cars/But, a new attraction is rolling out this month: self-driving cars.

Voyage, a self-driving car startup led by some of the most accomplished leaders in the autonomous vehicle industry, has been mapping The Villages' 32 square miles since January. Soon, it will launch its Pioneer Program, which will pick-up and drop-off residents within select neighborhoods in its autonomous Chrysler Pacificas.


----------



## iheartuber

ECOMCON said:


> Wish u guys would learn how to research be4 confirming ur vast lack of SDC knowledge and purely emotional positions.
> 
> SDC in retirement communities It's already working and just the beginning
> 
> Nov 2018,
> 
> Voyage inc, ran its first self-driving tests in a tiny retirement community in San Jose with just 4k residents and 15 miles of roads, but it had bigger dreams - so, it reached out to The Villages.
> 
> Next, The 126k retirees living in Florida's largest and most convenient retirement community, The Villages, are living the dream.
> 
> The mega-development features 648 holes of golf, 100 pickleball courts, more than 100 restaurants, and 2700 social clubs (including 130 exclusively for singles) - all just a golf cart ride away on The Villages' 750+ miles of pristine roads.
> 
> https://thehustle.co/florida-retirement-home-self-driving-cars/But, a new attraction is rolling out this month: self-driving cars.
> 
> Voyage, a self-driving car startup led by some of the most accomplished leaders in the autonomous vehicle industry, has been mapping The Villages' 32 square miles since January. Soon, it will launch its Pioneer Program, which will pick-up and drop-off residents within select neighborhoods in its autonomous Chrysler Pacificas.


And if they kill anybody who cares? They're old and gonna die soon anyway


----------



## BigBadJohn

iheartuber said:


> And if they kill anybody who cares? They're old and gonna die soon anyway


But if an elderly driver (Edna) mows down 13 pedestrians on the sidewalk because she thought her foot was in the brake and not the gas, well that's just crazy 'ole Edna! These events are happening on a weekly basis. SDC's will get the "Edna's" off the road. And none too soon I might add.


----------



## Who is John Galt?

Time travels slowly in the Elmer and Edna show. Gradually Elmer realised he can make a killing as the (just pretend I'm not here) driver of a SDC.

He was offered a killer proposition by technology giant Über and he now has a important job behind the wheel in Tempe, Arizona but, all this new technology has scrambled his brain.

Is he Elmer or is he Edna? Maybe he is both.

.


----------



## iheartuber

Who is John Galt? said:


> Time travels slowly in the Elmer and Edna show. Gradually Elmer realised he can make a killing as the (just pretend I'm not here) driver of a SDC.
> 
> He was offered a killer proposition by technology giant Über and he now has a important job behind the wheel in Tempe, Arizona but, all this new technology has scrambled his brain.
> 
> Is he Elmer or is he Edna? Maybe he is both.
> 
> .


That's cool bro except one thing: when is this happening? Hasn't really happened yet.

(All the robo car circle jerks currently happening don't count)


----------



## BigBadJohn

Better check with Elmer (the 1902 buggy maker) Oh it's happening alright! Sticking your head in the sand won't stop the technology freight train from ramming thru your tunnel (vision) young lad.....


----------



## ECOMCON

BigBadJohn said:


> Better check with Elmer (the 1902 buggy maker) Oh it's happening alright! Sticking your head in the sand won't stop the technology freight train from ramming thru your tunnel (vision) young lad.....


Time, Tide and Technology wait for no man nor @iheartuber


----------



## Who is John Galt?

BigBadJohn said:


> Better check with Elmer (the 1902 buggy maker) Oh it's happening alright! Sticking your head in the sand won't stop the technology freight train from ramming thru your tunnel (vision) young lad.....


Apparently, it won't stop Elmer / Edna from mowing down cyclists either. How is Über's program going, BTW?

.

.


----------



## iheartuber

BigBadJohn said:


> Those who fear SDC's probably feared going from kindergarten to the 1st grade. Eventually, they'll get over it.


Except going from kindergarten to the first grade took one year

Going from human drivers to robot drivers will take decades


BigBadJohn said:


> Better check with Elmer (the 1902 buggy maker) Oh it's happening alright! Sticking your head in the sand won't stop the technology freight train from ramming thru your tunnel (vision) young lad.....


That's cool bro

But I wanna know WHEN this world you speak of will happen

Reason I ask- I've seen articles posted here that say DECADES and that sounds plausible to me


----------



## BigBadJohn

Get ahold of Elmer. He'll explain how his denial of modern progress almost cost him the opportunity to invest in tomorrows technology and make a fortune doing so. Elmer was no "toilet hipster". Elmer, the man with the funny name.


----------



## iheartuber

BigBadJohn said:


> Get ahold of Elmer. He'll explain how his denial of modern progress almost cost him the opportunity to invest in tomorrows technology and make a fortune doing so. Elmer was no "toilet hipster". Elmer, the man with the funny name.


Sir, I'm not interested in the past when once upon a time there used to be horses and then there were cars

I already know how many years worth of a transition that took

I want to know what YOU think the timeframe is in human to robot drivers. Me, I personally think it would take decades based on many articles I've read saying as much

What is your prediction of a timeframe?

I suspect if you cannot give me a direct answer that means you don't have one. Nothing to be ashamed about if that's the case.


----------



## BigBadJohn

I just got a message from Elmer. He said Uber has 25,000 autonomous Volvos and Waymo has 50,000 Chrysler Pacificas and have order 1000's of autonomous Jaguars. And lets not forget Lyft. 1000's of autonomous vehicles ordered and on the way. They are being prepped as we have this back and forth banter. Not to mention the dozen other autonomous vehicle start ups that are popping up all over the place. Some will survive, some won't. I'm banking heavily on Waymo, Uber and Lyft. (Wink-wink). 
So to answer your question, it's obvious.


----------



## Who is John Galt?

BigBadJohn said:


> I just got a message from Elmer.


Elmer wants you to be vewy, vewy quiet...


----------



## iheartuber

BigBadJohn said:


> I just got a message from Elmer. He said Uber has 25,000 autonomous Volvos and Waymo has 50,000 Chrysler Pacificas and have order 1000's of autonomous Jaguars. And lets not forget Lyft. 1000's of autonomous vehicles ordered and on the way. They are being prepped as we have this back and forth banter. Not to mention the dozen other autonomous vehicle start ups that are popping up all over the place. Some will survive, some won't. I'm banking heavily on Waymo, Uber and Lyft. (Wink-wink).
> So to answer your question, it's obvious.


It's not obvious.

Uber has famously made blunder after blunder for years. Having robo cars on order that will go nowhere only proves they are continuing to make blunders.

As for the cars that Waymo has on order, they need to make Phoenix a success first and so far Phoenix is limp for them at best.

I asked you for a timeframe you still didn't give me one. You expected me to assume one but I don't assume.


----------



## BigBadJohn

Unfortunately ignorance won't make SDC's go away. But ignorance will cost current Uber drivers who bury their heads in the sand a chance at a real job in the workforce or as an investor in the AI technology as it begins to take hold across major cities. Autonomous vehicles are already in use in Las Vegas but lets deny that as well.


----------



## goneubering

Who is John Galt? said:


> Apparently, it won't stop Elmer / Edna from mowing down cyclists either. How is Über's program going, BTW?
> 
> .
> 
> .


They would be better off financially if they shut down their SDC program.


----------



## iheartuber

BigBadJohn said:


> Unfortunately ignorance won't make SDC's go away. But ignorance will cost current Uber drivers who bury their heads in the sand a chance at a real job in the workforce or as an investor in the AI technology as it begins to take hold across major cities. Autonomous vehicles are already in use in Las Vegas but lets deny that as well.


So no answer to the question then?

I'll ask one more time just for a laugh:

According to many articles I've seen, many have been posted here, I'm sure you've seen them too, it will take decades to make the transition from human to robot drivers.

Since you are so bullish on SDCs, what is the timeframe YOU predict?


BigBadJohn said:


> Unfortunately ignorance won't make SDC's go away. But ignorance will cost current Uber drivers who bury their heads in the sand a chance at a real job in the workforce or as an investor in the AI technology as it begins to take hold across major cities. Autonomous vehicles are already in use in Las Vegas but lets deny that as well.


I just wanna know when you think this great transition from human to robot drivers will happen? Five years? Ten years? Less?

Surely you can estimate a timeframe since you're so aggressively believe in this


----------



## Who is John Galt?

BigBadJohn said:


> Autonomous vehicles are already in use in Las Vegas but lets deny that as well.


Of course they are. Fully autonomous vehicles are plying the streets of cities all over the world. And Elmer controls them all !

.


----------



## iheartuber

Who is John Galt? said:


> Of course they are. Fully autonomous vehicles are plying the streets of cities all over the world. And Elmer controls them all !
> 
> .


We're not talking about beta test mode per project cases of self driving cars with a human safety driver..

I asked you when robots will fully take over auto transportation across the board for good

After all, you're so aggressive that it's happening quickly, you accuse me of having my head in the sand, ok so gimme a timeframe then


----------



## goneubering

iheartuber said:


> We're not talking about beta test mode per project cases of self driving cars with a human safety driver..
> 
> I asked you when robots will fully take over auto transportation across the board for good
> 
> After all, you're so aggressive that it's happening quickly, you accuse me of having my head in the sand, ok so gimme a timeframe then


Good job!! You've cornered the vaunted Tomato.


----------



## goneubering

Who is John Galt? said:


> Of course they are. Fully autonomous vehicles are plying the streets of cities all over the world. And Elmer controls them all !
> 
> .


Elmer Fudd??!!


----------



## uberdriverfornow

BigBadJohn said:


> Unfortunately ignorance won't make SDC's go away. But ignorance will cost current Uber drivers who bury their heads in the sand a chance at a real job in the workforce or as an investor in the AI technology as it begins to take hold across major cities. Autonomous vehicles are already in use in Las Vegas but lets deny that as well.


lol supposedly 30,000 Lyft sdc rides in Las Vegas .... where is the proof ? no videos showing any rides at all


----------



## goneubering

iheartuber said:


> I asked you when robots will fully take over auto transportation across the board for good
> 
> After all, you're so aggressive that it's happening quickly, you accuse me of having my head in the sand, ok so gimme a timeframe then


The Tomato won't answer your basic question so I will. The SDC industry is full of hype right now. After losing billions of dollars pursuing dreams most of the SDC companies will go out of business or shut down their SDC division. The most likely survivor is Google's Waymo because of their deep deep pockets. Apple's SDC program could survive even though we hear about cutbacks. Amazon is late to the party but still might make an impact if Bezos gets serious.

By 2030 no major American city will be exclusively using SDCs. They will be a niche market. The $7 trillion idea is a mirage.


----------



## iheartuber

goneubering said:


> The Tomato won't answer your basic question so I will. The SDC industry is full of hype right now. After losing billions of dollars pursuing dreams most of the SDC companies will go out of business or shut down their SDC division. The most likely survivor is Google's Waymo because of their deep deep pockets. Apple's SDC program could survive even though we hear about cutbacks. Amazon is late to the party but still might make an impact if Bezos gets serious.
> 
> By 2030 no major American city will be exclusively using SDCs. They will be a niche market. The $7 trillion idea is a mirage.


The real reason why the Tomato won't give me a timeframe when all this will happen in his opinion is because he backed himself into a corner.

If he says 1-2 years all I have to do is come back in 1-2 years and say "well, it's not here!" If he says something a little more down the road like 5 years then it contradicts the aggressive timeframe he alluded to.

There is literally no direct answer he can ever give.


----------



## Launchpad McQuack

Who is John Galt? said:


> Yeah, or maybe even a real person here who has actually been inside one of these 'Self Driving Cars' with (pretend you don't see me) 'program director' onboard.
> 
> I can't help but think of auto pilot Otto from the 1980 movie 'Airplane!' and now here we are nearly 40 years later still with pilots onboard.
> 
> View attachment 296240


It's kind of funny. They were talking about self-driving cars on the radio yesterday, and the radio host mentioned Otto. I figure that joke went sailing over a lot of people's heads.


----------



## UberLyftFlexWhatever

Launchpad McQuack said:


> It's kind of funny. They were talking about self-driving cars on the radio yesterday, and the radio host mentioned Otto. I figure that joke went sailing over a lot of people's heads.


Isn't Otto, uber trucks?

https://www.recode.net/2018/3/6/170...ck-otto-freight-embark-waymo-alphabet-arizona
https://www.truckinginfo.com/310461/otto-co-founder-launches-new-autonomous-truck-start-up-companyhttps://www.sdcexec.com/risk-compli...ng-truck-makes-its-first-delivery-50000-beers


----------



## uberdriverfornow

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> Isn't Otto, uber trucks?
> 
> https://www.recode.net/2018/3/6/170...ck-otto-freight-embark-waymo-alphabet-arizona
> https://www.truckinginfo.com/310461/otto-co-founder-launches-new-autonomous-truck-start-up-companyhttps://www.sdcexec.com/risk-compli...ng-truck-makes-its-first-delivery-50000-beers


I don't think you got the memo. lol

Uber shuttered Otto last year. lol

http://fortune.com/2018/07/30/uber-self-driving-truck-program-otto-lawsuit-closed/
It's always a matter of time til a bad bet fails. lol

http://fortune.com/2015/08/27/remember-solyndra-mistake/
https://uberpeople.net/threads/self-driving-cars-are-a-fraud.306087/


----------



## goneubering

uberdriverfornow said:


> I don't think you got the memo. lol
> 
> Uber shuttered Otto last year. lol
> 
> http://fortune.com/2018/07/30/uber-self-driving-truck-program-otto-lawsuit-closed/
> It's always a matter of time til a bad bet fails. lol
> 
> http://fortune.com/2015/08/27/remember-solyndra-mistake/
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/self-driving-cars-are-a-fraud.306087/


Oops!!!!

Oh well. Now SDC fans will move on to the next thing they can hype.


----------

