# Gasoline: Octane/Grade



## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

What grade of gasoline do you use, and why?


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

I run the grade the manufacture recommends, the engine is tuned to that and using a higher grade will do nothing because the engine won’t utilize it and running a lower grade the engine won’t preform as well. I have tuned my engine to run a different grade before and that works when you want to run higher octane but if you don’t have a tuner then it’s wasting money putting higher grades into engines that aren’t tuned for it. Right now my engine is tuned to 91 octane so I run that, when I want to save on money I’ll tune it back to 87 but I’m having too much fun with the 91 right now


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> What grade of gasoline do you use, and why?


Manufacturing recommended, of course.
You are reducing lifespan of your engine if you use a wrong gas.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

MikhailCA said:


> Manufacturing recommended, of course.
> You are reducing lifespan of your engine if you use a wrong gas.


Older cars you can damage with the wrong octane, these newer cars will process and tune it so it won't damage the engine, but they'll only tune it down, trying to use a higher octane and it'll do nothing unless you reprogram it

My last car came with 91 but they designed it so it could run 87 or any octane because people just didn't know or care to put the 91 in it and they didn't want the engine to be ruined. In doing so though the computer didn't process it as well as 87 should be so it would be more like running 85 because the rest of the engine was still trying to run at 91. So for the best deal it was actually better to put the 91 in the car. Now if the whole engine was reprogrammed right the 87 would be more economical to run but you lose the extra power from running 91, always a trade off when running octanes. If you aren't tuning everything for the octane you'll waste on higher and on lower it'll run inefficiently


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> What grade of gasoline do you use, and why?


Regular Unleaded.

Because, there is no need for anything else.


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

NicFit said:


> Older cars you can damage with the wrong octane, these newer cars will process and tune it so it won't damage the engine, but they'll only tune it down, trying to use a higher octane and it'll do nothing unless you reprogram it
> 
> My last car came with 91 but they designed it so it could run 87 or any octane because people just didn't know or care to put the 91 in it and they didn't want the engine to be ruined. In doing so though the computer didn't process it as well as 87 should be so it would be more like running 85 because the rest of the engine was still trying to run at 91. So for the best deal it was actually better to put the 91 in the car. Now if the whole engine was reprogrammed right the 87 would be more economical to run but you lose the extra power from running 91, always a trade off when running octanes. If you aren't tuning everything for the octane you'll waste on higher and on lower it'll run inefficiently


Higher octane requires higher temperature in cylinders, by changing octane level you put additional pressure on your engine, unless your engine specially designed for higher temperature. Some engines do some don't. Mine doesn't.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

MikhailCA said:


> Higher octane requires higher temperature in cylinders, by changing octane level you put additional pressure on your engine, unless your engine specially designed for higher temperature. Some engines do some don't. Mine doesn't.


True, which is why I won't run higher then a few octane more, I could buy the additive and run stupid high levels like 120 octane but like you said that'll start putting more stress on engines which is why race engines don't last very long. I figure running 91 vs 87 won't affect the longevity very much but the trade off is I have more power now so if it fails a couple of thousand earlier it won't matter anyway, either I have to replace the engine or since I won't keep the car anyway beyond 200k someone else gets shorted slightly but I also make sure my maintained is 100% and quality parts so I get less failures


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> What grade of gasoline do you use, and why?


2008 Prius. Manual csll for 87 octane.
Lots of pinging lately. No pinging with 89 octane. Go figure?


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> 2008 Prius. Manual csll for 87 octane.
> Lots of pinging lately. No pinging with 89 octane. Go figure?


It could be the gas, could be cheap gas or between 2008 and 2021 they may have changed the standards or used other additives depending on where you are. Also when was the last time you changed the fuel filter and other filters around the car, something else could be choking the gas supply, or there's something worn out. Unless you can find the reason it's pinging then run 89.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

NicFit said:


> It could be the gas, could be cheap gas or between 2008 and 2021 they may have changed the standards or used other additives depending on where you are. Also when was the last time you changed the fuel filter and other filters around the car, something else could be choking the gas supply, or there's something worn out. Unless you can find the reason it's pinging then run 89.


Fuel filter is integrated within the gas tank. As for any other possible factors, who knows? Maybe just the age/mileage of vehicle demands slightly higher octane.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Fuel filter is integrated within the gas tank. As for any other possible factors, who knows? Maybe just the age/mileage of vehicle demands slightly higher octane.


Age means something is worn out, what it is isn't going to be easy to find. Maybe a good mechanic could figure it out, you could replace half the car trying to figure it out and might be cheaper to run 89. Eventually it'll get worse and then you'll easily figure it out but until then &#129335;‍♂

You could try running 87 and see if it throws a code, probably the only thing I'd try, chances are it may not but you never know


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

NicFit said:


> Age means something is worn out, what it is isn't going to be easy to find. Maybe a good mechanic could figure it out, you could replace half the car trying to figure it out and might be cheaper to run 89. Eventually it'll get worse and then you'll easily figure it out but until then &#129335;‍♂
> 
> You could try running 87 and see if it throws a code, probably the only thing I'd try, chances are it may not but you never know


Yeah, who knows. And at this point in time, who cares? &#128514;


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## nj9000 (Jun 6, 2019)

Manual for my car says 87 octane, but I learned it has different timing tables for 87, 89 and 93. Whenever it gets refueled it'll try the 93 and 89 timing until it encounters knock and drops to the next lowest rating. That can't be healthy for it. I ran 87 for years but now that it has >100k mi and gas has been cheap I've been getting 93. Been refueling at Sams Club since it seems to have the cheapest 93.

With 93 it has more throttle response and I get about a gallon's worth extra mileage per tank. I get like 340-360 miles from 10 gal on 87, 400 or so with 93.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

When I worked for an auto dismantler I ran gas from the tank where they dumped all the gas from the junk cars.

The tank was 1,000 gallons and had to be emptied out every other day (we also had a 500 gallon back up tank). I think the average was 3 gallons of gas per junk car. The tank had a filtering system much like oil filters that you would spin on and off.

I used that gas mixture for 23 years never had a gas related problem with any of the vehicles I used. I even used it in my personal vehicles.

I have noticed that on the Maxima if I use 87 instead of 91 it seems to stumble and have less power. 91 is the recommended octane.

Ohhh, and I used the yard gas because it was free.


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## nj9000 (Jun 6, 2019)

observer said:


> When I worked for an auto dismantler I ran gas from the tank where they dumped all the gas from the junk cars.
> 
> The tank was 1,000 gallons and had to be emptied out every other day (we also had a 500 gallon back up tank). I think the average was 3 gallons of gas per junk car. The tank had a filtering system much like oil filters that you would spin on and off.
> 
> ...


Wow, and some people avoid anything that's not top tier lol :laugh:


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

nj9000 said:


> Wow, and some people avoid anything that's not top tier lol :laugh:


Well, the price was right... ...


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## Terri Lee (Jun 23, 2016)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> What grade of gasoline do you use, and why?


Don't you want to know how often I clip my toenails?


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

NicFit said:


> True, which is why I won't run higher then a few octane more, I could buy the additive and run stupid high levels like 120 octane but like you said that'll start putting more stress on engines which is why race engines don't last very long. I figure running 91 vs 87 won't affect the longevity very much but the trade off is I have more power now so if it fails a couple of thousand earlier it won't matter anyway, either I have to replace the engine or since I won't keep the car anyway beyond 200k someone else gets shorted slightly but I also make sure my maintained is 100% and quality parts so I get less failures


I always thought it was sort of the reverse of that

That the higher octane prevented detonation at high temperatures/compression

When I flew the planes with the Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp we got 61 inches of manifold pressure. We used water injection to cool the cylinders before the fuel charge 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_&_Whitney_R-2800_Double_Wasp


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

wallae said:


> I always thought it was sort of the reverse of that
> 
> That the higher octane prevented detonation at high temperatures/compression
> 
> ...


That engine is beautiful. A work of art.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Of course I do


Terri Lee said:


> Don't you want to know how often I clip my toenails?





Terri Lee said:


> Don't you want to know how often I clip my toenails?


Not only I, but the entire UP community. How dare you so selfishly keep such vital information from us! &#128544;


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## Alantc (Jun 15, 2018)

In my area u can get 100% octane gas. Will that hurt your car


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Alantc said:


> In my area u can get 100% octane gas. Will that hurt your car


Dunno. Try it!


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

NicFit said:


> but they designed it so it could run 87 or any octane because people just didn't know or care to put the 91 in it


I was a manufacturing engineer for 12 years at General Motors. Engines are designed to run on 87 octane because that is all that's required. There are of course a few exceptions. Read your owners manual and notice the difference between _recommended _and _required._ If your vehicle truly _requires _higher octane then you will see that message on the back of the fuel filler door. In most cases running higher octane than _required _makes no difference to the life of the engine. Higher octanes may cover some other sins in your engine however.

Just an fyi, at the assembly plants only 87 octane is used. Also, at most new car dealerships only 87 octane is used, even for 8 cylinders European sports cars like the one that I have.:roflmao:


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

observer said:


> That engine is beautiful. A work of art.


It really is and quite innovative for it's day
1 engine the equivalent of 5 mustang car engines producing 420 hp


nj9000 said:


> Wow, and some people avoid anything that's not top tier lol :laugh:


My thinking is: if I can get the best for the same price as the worst, conveniently, why not?
Specially now that they're including corn syrup in the fuel&#128546;
*best to me is highest detergent not octane

Costco may have great gas but I'm not going to be number 31 in line as is the case in this place.
Exxon in the app saves me 6 cents now and make it within a few pennies of Sams Club where I often top off. It's my understanding that Sam's Club search out the absolute cheapest gas that they can find without regard to the amount of detergent.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> 2008 Prius. Manual csll for 87 octane.
> Lots of pinging lately. No pinging with 89 octane. Go figure?


It does sound like you either got bad gas or something else is going on with your engine. Try running some dry gas through with your next fill up or 2. Should remove any water that got in there.



Alantc said:


> In my area u can get 100% octane gas. Will that hurt your car


It's a bad idea. Your car may actually run worse because the higher the octane, in actuality, the lower the energy that is produced. Also, some 100% octane fuel may have lead in it which will burn up your catalytic converter. I've never seen 100% octane outside of an airport.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Seamus said:


> I was a manufacturing engineer for 12 years at General Motors. Engines are designed to run on 87 octane because that is all that's required. There are of course a very few exceptions. Read your owners manual and notice the difference between _recommended _and _required._ If your vehicle truly _requires _higher octane then you will see that message on the back of the fuel filler door. In most cases running higher octane than _required _makes no difference to the life of the engine. Higher octanes may cover some other sins in your engine however.
> 
> Just an fyi, at the assembly plants only 87 octane is used. Also, at most new car dealerships only 87 octane is used, even for 8 cylinders European sports cars like the one that I have.:roflmao:


So is using 89 octane in fact, to eliminating engine ping/knock?


Seamus said:


> It does sound like you either got bad gas or something else is going on with your engine. Try running some dry gas through with your next fill up or 2. Should remove any water that got in there.


"Dry gas?".....The only "dry gas" I know of, appears shortly after I have lunch at Taco Bell!



Seamus said:


> I was a manufacturing engineer for 12 years at General Motors. Engines are designed to run on 87 octane because that is all that's required. There are of course a very few exceptions. Read your owners manual and notice the difference between _recommended _and _required._ If your vehicle truly _requires _higher octane then you will see that message on the back of the fuel filler door. In most cases running higher octane than _required _makes no difference to the life of the engine. Higher octanes may cover some other sins in your engine however.
> 
> Just an fyi, at the assembly plants only 87 octane is used. Also, at most new car dealerships only 87 octane is used, even for 8 cylinders European sports cars like the one that I have.:roflmao:


So is using 89 octane in fact, useful in eliminating engine ping/knock?


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Alantc said:


> In my area u can get 100% octane gas. Will that hurt your car


It's my understanding 92 or 93 octane won't hurt your car but you very well may just be wasting money.
Higher octane is not "better gas"
cleaner gas or more powerful gas.
Higher octane just prevents premature detonation from the higher heat caused by high compression.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> So is using 89 octane in fact, useful in eliminating engine ping/knock?


Could be but if it is you have something else causing your engine to not to perform as it should.

step 1 like I said put dry gas in to get water out of your fuel system.

step 2 if your engine has a lot of miles and has some issues causing it to not perform as it should either pay someone to diagnose the issue or just learn to live with it. If 89 octane makes a difference and you don't want to spend money on a high mileage engine then just be happy it helps.....for now.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Seamus said:


> It does sound like you either got bad gas or something else is going on with your engine. Try running some dry gas through with your next fill up or 2. Should remove any water that got in there.
> 
> 
> It's a bad idea. Your car may actually run worse because the higher the octane, in actuality, the lower the energy that is produced. Also, some 100% octane fuel may have lead in it which will burn up your catalytic converter. I've never seen 100% octane outside of an airport.


If I had any idea that I had water in my gas tank...
I would change gas stations pretty quick.
Kill an engine

_hydro lock &#129398;&#129398;&#129398;_


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

wallae said:


> If I had any idea that I had water in my gas tank...
> I would change gas stations pretty quick.
> Kill an engine
> 
> _hydro lock &#129398;&#129398;&#129398;_


Could very well be the gas stations tank but sometimes it's just condensation that has built up. (or an enemy you've made :roflmao. Doesn't take much to hurt your performance.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Before every flight we looked for water in the fuel tank of our aircraft 
Draining a cup from the lowest point in each tank.

I had a friend who build houses and he didn’t pay his painters because of some problem.
A week or so later his brand new truck...
Engine was gone... sugar or coke in the fuel
I saw the broke part engine... what a mess


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Ahh... Gasoline thread. As much fun as oil threads. :roflmao:


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Premium in all ours, because that's what the manuals say. They all have turbos so that's why.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

TomTheAnt said:


> Ahh... Gasoline thread. As much fun as oil threads. :roflmao:


I like it... 
But really you would not believe how many waste cash on "high test" for completely wrong reasons.
My kids didn't know...


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> 2008 Prius. Manual csll for 87 octane.
> Lots of pinging lately. No pinging with 89 octane. Go figure?


It's because of its age and mileage. No way around it, so just suck it up and figure you're better off paying for the gas instead of paying for a newer car.

I put 259,000 miles on a Celica. Somewhere around 150,000 miles I had to change to midgrade, because of the knocking. And later on, to premium. Still cheaper than paying to replace the car.

I had re tard ed the timing as much as I could too. That was back when cars had a distributor that you could adjust. Re tarding the timing allows lower octane. I still have the timing light in the garage, but it's not useful for anything now.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> It's because of its age and mileage. No way around it, so just suck it up and figure you're better off paying for the gas instead of paying for a newer car.
> 
> I put 259,000 miles on a Celica. Somewhere around 150,000 miles I had to change to midgrade, because of the knocking. And later on, to premium. Still cheaper than paying to replace the car.
> 
> I had @@@@@@ed the timing as much as I could too. That was back when cars had a distributor that you could adjust. Re tarding the timing allows lower octane. I still have the timing light in the garage, but it's not useful for anything now.


I can't believe you're saying those nasty things about the poor innocent timing


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Christinebitg said:


> It's because of its age and mileage. No way around it, so just suck it up and figure you're better off paying for the gas instead of paying for a newer car.
> 
> I put 259,000 miles on a Celica. Somewhere around 150,000 miles I had to change to midgrade, because of the knocking. And later on, to premium. Still cheaper than paying to replace the car.
> 
> I had re tard ed the timing as much as I could too. That was back when cars had a distributor that you could adjust. Re tarding the timing allows lower octane. I still have the timing light in the garage, but it's not useful for anything now.


I figured that was the probable cause. Going on 440k miles now!


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> What grade of gasoline do you use, and why?


2002 Mitsubishi Montero - Regular*
2013 Ford Raptor - Regular*
2015 Audi A5 - Premium
2020 Ford Fusion - Regular

With our Montero we put in regular even though Premium is recommended. It has 226k on it with zero issues.

My Raptor recommends premium and by doing so HP goes from 401HP to 411HP. I ran premium for a whole year and I never once noticed the increase power. With a 36 gallon tank and premium running $.50 more a gallon the "extra" HP you don't notice is pricey...

Only the A5 needs premium as it has a 2.0L turbocharged engine.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

NicFit said:


> I run the grade the manufacture recommends,


that. and it usually means you get the best gas mileage as well.


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## nj9000 (Jun 6, 2019)

https://store.badnewsracing.net/Which-fuel-should-I-use-in-my-LUVLUJ-Does-it-matter_b_1.html
Shows the different timing tables for my car, that it uses according to octane. I'm guessing a lot of modern cars do the same thing. They can design the engine with higher compression for utilizing 93 octane and just back the timing off if lower octane is used. But it having to detect knock to adjust could eventually lead to cracked ringlands on your pistons.

My Chevy Sonic is turbocharged and for years I thought it could run 87 by venting boost at the wastegate, until I read up on this. I'd be wary of manufacturers' required octane ratings if your car is forced induction and/or high compression and they say it doesn't need premium. They're in the business of moving product, after all.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> 2008 Prius. Manual csll for 87 octane.
> Lots of pinging lately. No pinging with 89 octane. Go figure?


You need to gap your spark plugs. The pinging is caused by the spark plug gap increasing due to normal wear of the plugs. Reduce the gap to around .75mm and the pinging will stop.

I had the same issue with my Camry Hybrid. 89 octane would suppress the pinging. Fix your spark plugs - it's a 20 minute job.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> You need to gap your spark plugs. The pinging is caused by the spark plug gap increasing due to normal wear of the plugs. Reduce the gap to around .75mm and the pinging will stop.


I can't tell you if it'll work for his car or not.

It didn't work for the '86 Celica that I put a couple hundred thousand miles on.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Some places sell the plugs pre-gapped from the manufacturer for your application.

My car is made for 87 octane thankfully, as it is a 28 cent difference per liter between regular and premium.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

MikhailCA said:


> Manufacturing recommended, of course.
> You are reducing lifespan of your engine if you use a wrong gas.


You are correct. But if a person was not to drive heavy footed . Older person sports car calls for 90 and up. Used 87. Ok no problem .
He does not floor it or hot dog . No pinging spark knock will happen . The car will last just as long .
Situation two . The car calls for 87 normal unleaded .
Some bone head used 94 . This could really damage a engine . 
Crack that owners manual . Unless you have a sports car there will be zero differences in power .
The gas mileage will be the same .


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

NicFit said:


> Older cars you can damage with the wrong octane,





Alantc said:


> In my area u can get 100% octane gas.





Seamus said:


> Also, some 100% octane fuel may have lead in it which will burn up your catalytic converter. I've never seen 100% octane outside of an airport.


These two run on the cheap gasolene. One is a 2014, the other a 2015, both hybrids. The 2014 is my Uber/Lyft car. The 2015 is a cab::



















This one ran on the cheap stuff, as well. It was my cab from 2008-2015. I kept it for five years as a hoopty car. I just junked it in November. I did not want to pay the insurance on it any more. It had a thousand things wrong with it, but, I drove it to the junker. He paid me more for it than he would have if had to come and fetch it. It developed a short that required me to disconnect the battery cable if I were to park it for more than three of four hours. I had no idea where the short was nor was I going to pay to find it. When the insurance expired, I just decided not to pay to renew it. It ran its whole life on the cheap stuff.










This one was designed to run on hundred octane premium. I now must use octane booster. It fouls the plugs and pits the points. I do well to get six thousand miles out of a set of plugs and points. It has dual points. Until they came out with these street legal seven, eight hundred and thousand horsepower buggies, this thing would show any fancy price tagged Porsche or Lamborghini just what was _what_.










@Alantc must be going to one of those places near Richmond Raceway. I have wheeled the DeSoto into one of them when I was down there and had it. They knew exactly what I wanted as I pulled into the place. The car is now in a garage in Massachusetts, though. I have not been able to get home since this COVID-19 business. My little brother starts the thing and let it run every couple of weeks.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

kingcorey321 said:


> Some bone head used 94 . This could really damage a engine .


A waste of money, but not damaging to the engine.


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## SleelWheels (Jun 25, 2019)

You’re a ****** for even asking this question. I’m guessing you sport a whale tail on your ride.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

SleelWheels said:


> You're a @@@@@@ for even asking this question. I'm guessing you sport a whale tail on your ride.


????


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> What grade of gasoline do you use, and why?


Whatever the manual recommend is what I use as it made for that and going higher up in octane is equivalent of burning money.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

TomTheAnt said:


> Ahh... Gasoline thread. As much fun as oil threads. :roflmao:


And all this talk of how to stop pings.
What's going on here?


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I run what ever I can siphon out of the cars parked on the street each night. Since I hit different neighborhoods all the time the blend is always a little different.

Seriously I run what the car calls for, never had a car that required more than regular gas.


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

I ran my OR1E I acquired from an online surplus auction when I found E85 was only $1.77/g in Rochester Hills. The manual did not mention if the car or engine will run on flexfuel or not, but I guess it doesn't matter. ORNL has run the car with E0 to E85 on the cars and found it does not hurt the engine in their research report. So I put the cheapest fuel in the car or fuel tank even if it's not called for. 

BTW, with Ethanol mixture, Do you know what Octane is in the E0 to E100?


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> 2008 Prius. Manual csll for 87 octane.
> Lots of pinging lately. No pinging with 89 octane. Go figure?


You probably have some carbon buildup in the engine.

Carbon buildup increases compression ratio therefore requiring higher octane to compensate.

Try running Chevron Techron through a couple of tanks. Should help in destroying carbon deposits.



Seamus said:


> Could be but if it is you have something else causing your engine to not to perform as it should.
> 
> step 1 like I said put dry gas in to get water out of your fuel system.
> 
> step 2 if your engine has a lot of miles and has some issues causing it to not perform as it should either pay someone to diagnose the issue or just learn to live with it. If 89 octane makes a difference and you don't want to spend money on a high mileage engine then just be happy it helps.....for now.


In addition, I would recommend Chevron Techron to clean carbon buildup out.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Try running Chevron Techron through a couple of tanks. Should help in destroying carbon deposits.


I tried that too. Didn't work.


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> You probably have some carbon buildup in the engine.
> 
> Carbon buildup increases compression ratio therefore requiring higher octane to compensate.
> 
> Try running Chevron Techron through a couple of tanks. Should help in destroying carbon deposits.


It's normal to have a little ping noise occasionally on these engines. It was a built-in feature, we guess.

As long as pings disappeared, drivers or owners don't have to do anything stupid like trying to suppress the noise.

The technology used in these engine will take care of it. You smart gearheads.


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

ntcindetroit said:


> It's normal to have a little ping noise occasionally on these engines. It was a built-in feature, we guess.
> 
> As long as pings disappeared, drivers or owners don't have to do anything stupid like trying to suppress the noise.
> 
> The technology used in these engine will take care of it. You smart gearheads.


If you think detonation is normal, and you think it's not destroying your engine slowly but surely, then don't ever complain when you blow a hole through one of your pistons... &#128077;

Any detonation is not normal... and can be caused by a lot of things, including over advanced timing, wrong fuel, bad knock sensors, or even a clogged cat...



Christinebitg said:


> I tried that too. Didn't work.


Have your cats checked to see if they are starting to get plugged up causing to much back pressure on your engine... plugged cats do not necessarily through a p0420 check engine code...


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> If you think detonation is normal, and you think it's not destroying your engine slowly but surely, then don't ever complain when you blow a hole through one of your pistons... &#128077;
> 
> Any detonation is not normal... and can be caused by a lot of things, including over advanced timing, wrong fuel, bad knock sensors, or even a clogged cat...


It appears you are laggards in ICE.

You can't tell the difference of occasional pinging noise and detonation.

You deserve to drive or have holed pistons under your hood.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

ntcindetroit said:


> It appears you are laggards in ICE.
> 
> You can't tell the difference of occasional pinging noise and detonation.
> 
> You deserve to have Detroit Pistons on your wall.


Pinging is detonation... does not matter how occasionally it occurs... &#128580;


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

SinTaxERROR said:


> You probably have some carbon buildup in the engine.
> 
> Carbon buildup increases compression ratio therefore requiring higher octane to compensate.
> 
> ...


Back in the days of carburetors, I bought a used car that ran like crap but was all I could afford. I bought a can of "Gumout" and over-did it and sprayed the whole can into the carburetor for carbon build up. As I was driving down the road there was a loud "boom" and black smoke blew out everywhere. Car ran beautiful after that. :roflmao: Oh for the days of simple non electronic guided engines!


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Don’t forget we’re now putting high fructose corn syrup in our gas


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Seamus said:


> Back in the days of carburetors, I bought a used car that ran like crap but was all I could afford. I bought a can of "Gumout" and sprayed the whole can into the carburetor for carbon build up. As I was driving down the road there was a loud "boom" and black smoke blew out everywhere. Car ran beautiful after that. :roflmao: Oh for the days of simple non electronic laced engines!


Unfortunately... I remember those days quite well... lol



wallae said:


> Don't forget we're now putting high fructose corn syrup in our gas


Mine has Splenda &#129315;


----------



## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> A waste of money, but not damaging to the engine.


 Some cars it will for sure damage the engine . Most of them no issues .
Look at your owners manual. It will say something like . ( use normal unleaded fuel . But you can use higher if lower is not available)
Other owners manual may say ( use 87 unleaded. Using higher may damage the engine ) 
Here is what google says . Google reply is incorrect it is for using 87 in cars the require premium 
Can premium fuel damage engine?
The higher octane gives *premium gas* greater resistance to early *fuel* ignition, which *can* result in potential *damage*, sometimes accompanied by audible *engine* knocking or pinging. ... If you use *premium fuel* because your *engine* knocks on regular, you are treating the symptom, not the cause.Apr 6, 2016


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Seamus said:


> Back in the days of carburetors, I bought a used car that ran like crap but was all I could afford. I bought a can of "Gumout" and over-did it and sprayed the whole can into the carburetor for carbon build up. As I was driving down the road there was a loud "boom" and black smoke blew out everywhere. Car ran beautiful after that. :roflmao: Oh for the days of simple non electronic guided engines!


I once parked on a slope sideways to open a gate up in the mountains of Mexico.

Ran out of gasoline.

I tried pushing the truck, no luck. It was just me and a dually truck that weighed around 6K pounds in the middle of nowhere and it was getting dark fast.

I had a 55 gallon barrel of diesel that I used for the tractor in back of the truck. So I siphoned a couple gallons in to the truck.

It smoked like a steam locomotive and ran really, really rough. Luckily it was mostly all down hill and I made it to the gas station where I filled up the tank to dilute the diesel.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> I tried that too. Didn't work.


Have you checked the ignition timing? Too advanced timing will cause pinging.

I had an old '82 Nissan in which the timing would slip into rétardation for some unknown reason every few thousand miles. I didn't have a timing light so I used to reset it by advancing the ignition until the car started pinging and then rétarding it a couple of degrees until it stopped. The car would then run great for a few thousand miles.


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

I love gasoline threads! Always well subscribed. We're such an eclectic group.

Here's the question:


Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> 2008 Prius. Manual csll for 87 octane.
> Lots of pinging lately. No pinging with 89 octane. Go figure?





The Gift of Fish said:


> You need to gap your spark plugs.


Possibly. Wouldn't hurt to check your plug gap.



Christinebitg said:


> It's because of its age and mileage.


She right. Here's why:

As the car ages carbon and other goobers build up in the combustion chamber, effectively _raising_ the compression ratio.

Higher compression ratio = higher octane gasoline.

You might be able to remove that carbon with an additive. Don't recall which is best these days.

_EDIT: Hats off to SinTaxERROR. Did not see your earlier post on carbon as culprit._

---------------------
BONUS ANSWER: I run ZMAX in all my gasoline cars (I have one). Not an "additive" in the traditional sense. Zmax soaks into the metal and acts as a super lubricant. Greatly extends engine life. Saved me two transmission replacements. Add to transmission, engine, and gas tank. If the engine dip stick shows full you can still add the Zmax. _It soaks into the metal_.

Read below review:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2R5I51HV99521?ref=pf_ov_at_pdctrvw_srp


----------



## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> What grade of gasoline do you use, and why?


Depends on the maufacturer spec. Using regular gas in a high compression engine can lead to detonation, which can blow a hole in a piston. Modern cars will detune to compensate, but then you get poor performance, and use more gas.


----------



## UberEunuch (Jan 14, 2020)

Your timing belt/chain is streched.

Higher octane fuel is stronger when fired(makes more power)...hence being used in performance cars. But higher octane fuel is slower burning than lower octane fuel...therfore high performance cars are tuned to preignite spark plugs just before valves are fully closed to give it time to burn up to full blow at the moment valves are closed so the pistons are pushed down with most force.
In your case using higher octane fuel engine doesnt ping...belt streched..valves not being fully closed at the time its ecm fire spark plugs but since it is higher octane/slower burning fuel...timing gets to be right.
Now in your case using proper/lower octane fuel will cause more damage since fuel will ignite faster..when valves are not fully closed causing some compresion run back into intake..burning valve seats..to name a few..
Manufacturers came up with knock sensors to help advancing/******ing ignition based on knock sensor info and newer cars even have "fuel type sensors" to help proper ignition..
I hope i was able to explain simply...


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

UberEunuch said:


> .
> 
> Higher octane fuel is stronger when fired(makes more power)...hence being used in performance cars. But higher octane fuel is slower burning than lower octane fuel...therfore high performance cars are tuned to preignite spark plugs just before valves are fully closed to give it time to burn up to full blow at the moment valves are closed so the pistons are pushed down with most force.
> In your case using higher octane fuel engine doesnt ping...belt streched..valves not being fully closed at the time its ecm fire spark plugs but since it is higher octane/slower burning fuel...timing gets to be right.
> ...


Raising the *octane* rating (also known as the anti-knock index) doesn't change the *energy*content of a gallon of gasoline.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a28565486/honda-cr-v-vs-bmw-m5-ford-f-150-dodge-charger/


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Your owner's manual is the instruction book for your car. When a smart person buys something, he always reads and follows the instructions. If he does not receive instructions, he goes to look for them.

The people who built your car know what it needs. This is why it is always best to put the gasolene and oil that they recommend.


----------



## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Your owner's manual is the instruction book for your car. When a smart person buys something, he always reads and follows the instructions. If he does not receive instructions, he goes to look for them.
> 
> The people who built your car know what it needs. This is why it is always best to put the gasolene and oil that they recommend.


In all honesty, after reading all the responses, I'm more confused than ever!


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> I'm more confused than ever!


About what?


----------



## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

wallae said:


> About what?


About the possible cause of engine pinging in my car.


----------



## UberEunuch (Jan 14, 2020)

wallae said:


> Raising the *octane* rating (also known as the anti-knock index) doesn't change the *energy*content of a gallon of gasoline.
> https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a28565486/honda-cr-v-vs-bmw-m5-ford-f-150-dodge-charger/


I reread my post...my bad instead of "Higher octane fuel is stronger when fired(makes more power)...hence being used in performance cars." I should have said.." Higher octane fuel is used in higher compression engines to make more power..."


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> About the possible cause of engine pinging in my car.


I was 100 posts ago. Almost back into 2019

Get with it.


----------



## nj9000 (Jun 6, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> I run what ever I can siphon out of the cars parked on the street each night. Since I hit different neighborhoods all the time the blend is always a little different.
> 
> Seriously I run what the car calls for, never had a car that required more than regular gas.







The best is when you siphon from the other RS drivers at the airport queue lot :thumbup: . Many seem to be too busy rolling a blunt to notice.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Have your cats checked


What's a cat?



The Gift of Fish said:


> Have you checked the ignition timing? Too advanced timing will cause pinging.


You're not aware that my (much) earlier post said that I had re tard ed the timing as much as I could. I also mentioned that I used a timing light in doing that, and the timing light is basically a museum piece that resides in garage.

For those folks suggesting that I do something now, I would also say that I owned that Toyota years ago. It was a 1986 model that I traded in on a newer one back in 2002.


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> What's a cat?
> 
> 
> You're not aware that my (much) earlier post said that I had re tard ed the timing as much as I could. I also mentioned that I used a timing light in doing that, and the timing light is basically a museum piece that resides in garage.
> ...


Sort of like a dog only smaller and stupider


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

wallae said:


> Sort of like a dog only smaller and smarter.


FIFY. LOL 

More independent too, able to look after themselves for a day or two if necessary.


----------



## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> FIFY. LOL :wink:
> 
> More independent too, able to look after themselves for a day or two if necessary.


it a car part in the exhaust system to filter out some of the bad stuff that would usually get dispelled out.
The fine mesh can get blocked or completely disintegrate over the period of use.


----------



## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Christinebitg said:


> What's a cat?


A member of the feline species. Commonly referred to as a "Pusy" cat!


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Immoralized said:


> it a car part in the exhaust system to filter out some of the bad stuff that would usually get dispelled out.
> The fine mesh can get blocked or completely disintegrate over the period of use.


Or stolen 
Lost 2 in LA on a 5 series bmw
Got in with no idea and it started up sounding like a dragster

Quoted in the thousand + range
I was working for a guy who owned a BMW dealership
He said let me
No bill
Found a receipt where he subcontracted it out for 400 bucks&#128514;


----------



## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

UberEunuch said:


> Higher octane fuel is stronger when fired(makes more power)...hence being used in performance cars.


Not true. Higher octane gas does not produce any more power than lower octane gas when combusted.

Higher _compression _makes more power (potentially much more power) than lower compression, and higher compression can cause knock. The higher the octane of the fuel, the more it resists knock, which is why it's used in higher compression engines such as you'd find in performance cars.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> You're not aware that my (much) earlier post said that I had re tard ed the timing as much as I could.


Clearly, otherwise I wouldn't have suggested it.


> For those folks suggesting that I do something now, I would also say that I owned that Toyota years ago. It was a 1986 model that I traded in on a newer one back in 2002.


Ahhhh..... _now_ you mention that! No, I appreciate that If you traded your car in in 2002, there is little point in exploring differential diagnoses now.


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> A member of the feline species. Commonly referred to as a "Pusy" cat!









The Gift of Fish said:


> Clearly, otherwise I wouldn't have suggested it.
> 
> Ahhhh..... _now_ you mention that! No, I appreciate that If you traded your car in in 2002, there is little point in exploring differential diagnoses now.


Maybe the new owner has pinging


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

wallae said:


> Or stolen
> Lost 2 in LA on a 5 series bmw
> Got in with no idea and it started up sounding like a dragster
> 
> ...


I just got my CATalytic converter on my Prius stolen.

It's 3,000 dollars.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

observer said:


> I just got my CATalytic converter on my Prius stolen.
> 
> It's 3,000 dollars.


Did you have comprehensive insurance and, if so, did it cover it?


----------



## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

observer said:


> I just got my CATalytic converter on my Prius stolen.
> 
> It's 3,000 dollars.


Sorry to hear. It's a huge problem in CA.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Did you have comprehensive insurance and, if so, did it cover it?


Nope it"s an old Prius even though it's in good condition. I brought it home and parked it. I've got a couple other cars.

I'm waiting for one to come up at auction so I can part it out and fix my car. Probly cost 600 bux. I'll part out the rest of the car and scrap what is left over.

It was stolen at my sons workplace, they gave us a thousand bux so I'll probly make a little money on it.

My brother had his stolen out of his Camry about the same time (350 miles away).

His car is newer and insurance did replace it. I think he was only out the 500 dollar deductible.



Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Sorry to hear. It's a huge problem in CA.


It's a huge problem everywhere. It shoild become a felony crime.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

My wife's precious prius has an appt tomorrow to have a cover installed to make stealing the converter more 'difficult'. I'm the lucky person who gets to take it in.

The highlight of my life is driving HER car. :vomit:


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

SHalester said:


> My wife's precious prius has an appt tomorrow to have a cover installed to make stealing the converter more 'difficult'. I'm the lucky person who gets to take it in.
> 
> The highlight of my life is driving HER car. :vomit:


I went to a target shooting competition in Central Florida one morning. We were all standing out there waiting for the Range Master to show up. He was a good 20 minutes late. Out of the fog pulls up a Prius and out steps this huge guy packing heat. My two youngest sons both busted out laughing.


----------



## nj9000 (Jun 6, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> About the possible cause of engine pinging in my car.


This is an instance where you may have to think and decide for yourself. A 2008 Prius has 13:1 compression, most cars that run 87 have like 9:1 compression or below. The first result in Google is PriusChat talking about how running higher octane could cause starting problems....I say that's  on a newer car. If you look up the wikipedia article on the engine in the Prius it says that 13:1 is actually more like 9.5:1 since it has tech where it delays closing the intake valves. In any case to keep it from running like a diesel I'd use higher octane. It shouldn't have any trouble starting.



observer said:


> I just got my CATalytic converter on my Prius stolen.
> 
> It's 3,000 dollars.


lol I had a '86 Fiero where the cat clogged and needed replacement. Took it to a shop and it was $50 to get a universal cat welded in.

No wonder people are still stealing cats, if these days they're so expensive and specific for the cars they're on? Like 10 years ago stealing them was out of style IIRC, because they stopped getting manufactured with platinum in them? On my current car yeah they're like $200+ each and I think there's 2 of them (been a while since I looked them up on RockAuto).


----------



## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

nj9000 said:


> This is an instance where you may have to think and decide for yourself. A 2008 Prius has 13:1 compression, most cars that run 87 have like 9:1 compression or below. The first result in Google is PriusChat talking about how running higher octane could cause starting problems....I say that's  on a newer car. If you look up the wikipedia article on the engine in the Prius it says that 13:1 is actually more like 9.5:1 since it has tech where it delays closing the intake valves. In any case to keep it from running like a diesel I'd use higher octane. It shouldn't have any trouble starting.
> 
> 
> lol I had a '86 Fiero where the cat clogged and needed replacement. Took it to a shop and it was $50 to get a universal cat welded in.
> ...


They are worth a lot because of below.

A *catalytic converter* contains precious metals (as active components) such as palladium, platinum, and *rhodium* (referred to as PGMs) in order to convert harmful gases emitted from vehicle engines to relatively harmless ones by both the reduction of nitrogen oxides (NOx) into nitrogen N2


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

nj9000 said:


> This is an instance where you may have to think and decide for yourself. A 2008 Prius has 13:1 compression, most cars that run 87 have like 9:1 compression or below. The first result in Google is PriusChat talking about how running higher octane could cause starting problems....I say that's  on a newer car. If you look up the wikipedia article on the engine in the Prius it says that 13:1 is actually more like 9.5:1 since it has tech where it delays closing the intake valves. In any case to keep it from running like a diesel I'd use higher octane. It shouldn't have any trouble starting.
> 
> 
> lol I had a '86 Fiero where the cat clogged and needed replacement. Took it to a shop and it was $50 to get a universal cat welded in.
> ...


Yea, I think California changed the rules on using universals a long time ago. I remember we used to get them in the 80s.

On the Prius, California only allows an OEM cat to be used. There are aftermarket cats but they won't pass the visual smog inspection. Those are around 750 bux and more likely that not will cause your check engine light to stay on, causing you to fail inspection.

Cat theft has been a problem for at least a couple decades. The place I worked at before sold around a million bux in cat innards each month.

I figured we had about 10k in cats stolen each month just in the Hayward location. That guy was a McGyver if he had put his talents to use in other things he would have been very successful.

Cats can be worth from 10-400 bux for scrap value.

Toyota, MBZ, Volvo, BMW and Honda are especially high up there because they use more Platinum, Rhodium and Palladium than other cars.


----------



## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

SHalester said:


> My wife's precious prius has an appt tomorrow to have a cover installed to make stealing the converter more 'difficult'. I'm the lucky person who gets to take it in.
> 
> The highlight of my life is driving HER car. :vomit:


&#128528;


----------



## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

observer said:


> When I worked for an auto dismantler I ran gas from the tank where they dumped all the gas from the junk cars.
> 
> The tank was 1,000 gallons and had to be emptied out every other day (we also had a 500 gallon back up tank). I think the average was 3 gallons of gas per junk car. The tank had a filtering system much like oil filters that you would spin on and off.
> 
> ...


You think?

I always use what the manufacturer requires, however, there are some vehicles that require targeted gas. 
I has a gas driven RV with a 454 unrestricted engine and if I did not use 91 octane, it would ping. 
My latest RV has a 450i engine and I only use 91 octane.....just because.


----------



## Halfmybrain (Mar 3, 2018)

Terri Lee said:


> Don't you want to know how often I clip my toenails?


Do you clip them while waiting for riders?


----------



## Irishjohn831 (Aug 11, 2017)

Doesn’t matter, scientific studies have shown no increased performance or progressive harm to a vehicle no matter the grade of gasoline.


----------



## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

Irishjohn831 said:


> Doesn't matter, scientific studies have shown no increased performance or progressive harm to a vehicle no matter the grade of gasoline.


Uh, what? Knocking will absolutely cause engine damage.


----------



## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> When a smart person buys something, he always reads and follows the instructions.


Take a look what I just found for you.


----------



## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> 2008 Prius. Manual csll for 87 octane.
> Lots of pinging lately. No pinging with 89 octane. Go figure?


This happened to me on a ford a few years back. it was a clogged PCV valve. which I didn't know at the time. ended up I had to do a valve job. so if you have a PCV Valve check it ......


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Irishjohn831 said:


> no increased performance


My Significant Other drives an Audi. The car's engine senses when knock is about to occur, and re tards the engine timing to compensate.

Consequently, using the recommended octane (premium) keeps that from happening. And if the timing isn't re tarded, the performance isn't reduced.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> The car's engine senses when knock is about to occur, and re tards the engine timing to compensate. And if the timing isn't re tarded, the performance isn't reduced.


When hundred octane premium disappeared, people tried to tell me to rétard the spark on the DeSoto. The reduced performance is really reduced when you do that on a hemi. The fuel economy on those little hemis back then was horrid as it was. Rétarding the spark made it even worse. Finally, that makes it run hot. Those old engines took heat even worse than do the newer ones. Even the aluminum block Ford 4,6L, which will warp even when parked in a hot climate, stood up better to heat than did those old engines.

Instead, I use octane booster which fouls the plugs and pits the points.


----------



## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> My Significant Other drives an Audi. The car's engine senses when knock is about to occur, and re tards the engine timing to compensate.
> 
> Consequently, using the recommended octane (premium) keeps that from happening. And if the timing isn't re tarded, the performance isn't reduced.


Minor correction... the car can't sense when knock is "about to occur," it can only sense that it DID occur (maybe once or even a couple of times in some cases) and then re-tard the timing after the fact.

A single or a couple knocks here or there aren't going to destroy an engine, but if it were me I'd never use octane lower than what the manufacturer recommends and try to avoid any and all knocks if possible.


----------



## Irishjohn831 (Aug 11, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> My Significant Other drives an Audi. The car's engine senses when knock is about to occur, and re tards the engine timing to compensate.
> 
> Consequently, using the recommended octane (premium) keeps that from happening. And if the timing isn't re tarded, the performance isn't reduced.


Thanks for giving me a reason not to buy an audi. Sounds like a Fiat (which stands for Fix It Again Tony


----------



## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

Irishjohn831 said:


> Thanks for giving me a reason not to buy an audi. Sounds like a Fiat (which stands for Fix It Again Tony


There's nothing wrong with re-tarding the timing to prevent knocking. That's what a car should do in order to protect the engine. Still, never buy an Audi and DEFINITELY never a Fiat


----------



## Irishjohn831 (Aug 11, 2017)

Schmanthony said:


> There's nothing wrong with re-tarding the timing to prevent knocking. That's what a car should do in order to protect the engine. Still, never buy an Audi and DEFINITELY never a Fiat :biggrin:


Get with the times sir, when your car if having such issues it's part of the automotive spectrum of auto autistic characterizations. Be P.C.


----------



## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Irishjohn831 said:


> Thanks for giving me a reason not to buy an audi. Sounds like a Fiat (which stands for Fix It Again Tony


It's not a bad design. Its to keep the engine from destroying itself (worst case scenario). Even when their is a reduction in power you hardily notice it. Audi requires premium for most of its cars... (maybe not the A3) and when someone goes out and purchase's a fairly expensive one you should be happy Audi has thought about your cheap ass trying to put in regular!

This really benefits those who are the 3rd or 4th owners of a Audi. They buy the car supercheap because it looks fancy and costs less than a new Honda and then they put regular gas in the car...

And this is not unique to Audi....


----------



## nj9000 (Jun 6, 2019)

Schmanthony said:


> Minor correction... the car can't sense when knock is "about to occur," it can only sense that it DID occur (maybe once or even a couple of times in some cases) and then re-tard the timing after the fact.
> 
> A single or a couple knocks here or there aren't going to destroy an engine, but if it were me I'd never use octane lower than what the manufacturer recommends and try to avoid any and all knocks if possible.


Or your car can be like my car and have a lower recommended octane than it really needs, cause the manufacturer thinks its ok for it to pull back on the timing all the time. I have to admit, it is a feature, but they should've just said in the manual that it needs 93 and can run lower if it needs to. But planned obsolescence is important to auto manufacturers. Chevy started going crazy sending me offers to get into a new vehicle right @ 100k miles.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Irishjohn831 said:


> Thanks for giving me a reason not to buy an audi.


Just buy a Volkswagen, if you must have a German car. An Audi is nothing more than a Volkswagen with a Mercedes-Benz price tag. Of course, if you want the Mercedes-Benz, buy _it._. Just do not pay for a Mercedes-Benz and accept a Volkswagen.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Schmanthony said:


> Minor correction... the car can't sense when knock is "about to occur," it can only sense that it DID occur


Okay, point noted. But... it's imperceptible, so it almost might as well not have happened.



Another Uber Driver said:


> Just buy a Volkswagen, if you must have a German car. An Audi is nothing more than a Volkswagen with a Mercedes-Benz price tag.


I have to assume you haven't driven one. My Significant Other test drove quite a few cars, and definitely preferred it to the Mercedes.

I guess you'd also want to say that you should buy a VW in preference to a Porsche also. LOL



Schmanthony said:


> DEFINITELY never a Fiat


I owned one once. Never again!


----------



## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> Okay, point noted. But... it's imperceptible, so it almost might as well not have happened.
> 
> 
> I have to assume you haven't driven one. My Significant Other test drove quite a few cars, and definitely preferred it to the Mercedes.
> ...


Audi have reliability problems but it common among all european car makers unless it built for commercial purposes in which case mercs does it better out of them all. It is built to fail so you get another car after the warranty period it how they keep making the $$$ and they make more $$$ selling parts to the 2nd hand owners at a 500-1000% mark up.

Know of 2 people on here that drove Q8 one of them his major problem was the engine blowing up at 180k miles with a few failed diesel injectors along the way that cost several thousand dollars each and another engine. All despite doing all the servicing required.

2nd guy had 4 diesel injector failures before 150k and the engine then blew up when his wife was driving it through the underground tunnel and caught on fire and the whole car was engulf in flames.

Both those guys used the car for RS/Private work. Which is pretty dismal reliability from the two that I know of both having major issues one that might of cost the lives of his wife and children too that were in the car at the time as it went up in flames in a matter of minutes.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> I have to assume you haven't driven one.
> 
> I guess you'd also want to say that you should buy a VW in preference to a Porsche also.


You would be aware what happens when you *ass*ume. _correctamundo_?

It depends on which Porsche, although any model of said Porsche does have a reputation for spending more time in the shop than does the Volkswagen. While some of that is due to the chronic poor parts distribution system of the German manufacturers, if the thing did not have to go to the shop so frequently in the first place..........................

If you go with one of the higher horsepower Porsches, I suppose..............................still, given the choice of high horsepower buggies, I would go with the Ford or Chrysler.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> You would be aware what happens when you *ass*ume. _correctamundo_?
> 
> It depends on which Porsche, although any model of said Porsche does have a reputation for spending more time in the shop than does the Volkswagen. While some of that is due to the chronic poor parts distribution system of the German manufacturers, if the thing did not have to go to the shop so frequently in the first place..........................
> 
> If you go with one of the higher horsepower Porsches, I suppose..............................still, given the choice of high horsepower buggies, I would go with the Ford or Chrysler.


Ford/Chrysler if you like going fast in a straight line but absolutely fails when it comes to turns. "The cars you can buy at the dealership ready to go"

Then again if it just cheap HP you are looking for and going in a straight line it is by far the cheapest choice and will leave european car makers in a dust but they have better everything else for a more rounded performance that isn't strictly straight line.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Immoralized said:


> Ford/Chrysler if you like going fast in a straight line


Why do you think that US tracks have broad curves while European tracks do not? There are some tracks, however that have both. Monza and Watkins Glen come to mind.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

2017 Chevy Cruze. It's supposed to run on 87 octane, but my PoS doesn't, so I have to give it 93.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Why do you think that US tracks have broad curves while European tracks do not? There are some tracks, however that have both. Monza and Watkins Glen come to mind.


Just stating the common strength and weaknesses. HP isn't everything but it is everything if you are looking to go fast in quarter mile or half mile run. Even though some euro cars can keep up but they'll have to spend even more $$$ doing so and add more weight. Which is counterproductive to what they are trying to go for.

You are right though most are just looking to go fast at the traffic lights and not intending to do any weekend track days where they have to corner fast and hard.

Even in Oz the Japanese car makers in Oz that made cars here with Ford & GM got banned from competitive racing because they made cars with HP and could out handle them and lost almost every race back in the day. Couldn't beat them so got the Aussie gov to ban them from racing :biggrin: So was only two car makers Ford & GM competing.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

islanddriver said:


> This happened to me on a ford a few years back. it was a clogged PCV valve. which I didn't know at the time. ended up I had to do a valve job. so if you have a PCV Valve check it ......


Replaced it. No difference.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

Bear went to Sheetz and bear was confused! So many choices! Bear's van is flexfuel, so bear pumped some from each pump. Except the green one, bear has learned the hard way that bear's van does not like green.


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## nj9000 (Jun 6, 2019)

Atom guy said:


> 2017 Chevy Cruze. It's supposed to run on 87 octane, but my PoS doesn't, so I have to give it 93.


We have the same car, what do you have, the 1.8? What do you mean it doesn't run on 87? It runs rough?


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Irishjohn831 said:


> Thanks for giving me a reason not to buy an audi. Sounds like a Fiat (which stands for Fix It Again Tony


I had a 1971 Fiat 124 Sport that never ever had a mechanical problem. Go figure.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberBeemer said:


> I had a 1971 Fiat 124 Sport that never ever had a mechanical problem. Go figure.


I had a good friend in college who bought a brand new 124 sedan, and had great luck with it. Put about 80,000 miles on it.

He traded it in on a brand new 131, which turned out to be a POS, and was his last Fiat ever.



Immoralized said:


> Audi have reliability problems but it common among all european car makers unless it built for commercial purposes in which case mercs does it better out of them all. It is built to fail so you get another car after the warranty period it how they keep making the $$$ and they make more $$$ selling parts to the 2nd hand owners at a 500-1000% mark up.
> 
> Know of 2 people on here that drove Q8 one of them his major problem was the engine blowing up at 180k miles with a few failed diesel injectors along the way that cost several thousand dollars each and another engine. All despite doing all the servicing required.
> 
> ...


My Significant Other has owned two Audis and has not had the experience you're describing. Not sure why the diesel experience is relevant, though.

I had a VW Rabbit Diesel that was one of the best cars I've ever had. Bought it new in 1980, one of the ones that was assembled in Pennsylvania. Put over 114,000 miles on it, and the engine and transmission still ran like the day I bought it.

It was a little slow, though, with 48 (count 'em) horsepower, and used every one of them when you were getting onto a freeway.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

nj9000 said:


> We have the same car, what do you have, the 1.8? What do you mean it doesn't run on 87? It runs rough?


It literally has no power on 87 octane. Like below 3000rpms the car crawls, then takes off like a rocket above 3k. Dangerous. My car is the 1.4T. Dealer says it runs strong, no issues, $130 diagnostic fee please.


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## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> I had a 1971 Fiat 124 Sport that never ever had a mechanical problem. Go figure.


I don't know about Fiat in the early 70s in particular, but back then MOST manufacturers were making much better products than they are now.

Now if you want long term reliability and resale value your options are pretty much limited to Toyota, Honda, Ford Pickups, and that's basically it. Almost EVERYTHING else is total crap.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Schmanthony said:


> I don't know about Fiat in the early 70s in particular, but back then MOST manufacturers were making much better products than they are now.


American cars reached their low point in the 1970s:

AMC was so bad that it had to offer the bumper-to-bumper warranty. That warranty became a model for the industry.
Chryslers would still run, but drank gasolene worse than the others.
While Ford trucks were still the best in the world, their cars were absolute JUNQUE after 1969.
General Motors was acceptable until 1972. After that, their quality control was worse than Ford's cars. You had to work pretty hard to get worse than Ford cars in that era. The absolute WORST year was 1974. This was when the Japanese cars made the inroads that they still hold to-day.

Ford realised, _finally_, that something was seriously wrong. In 1979, they started the "Quality is Job 1" campaign. By 1983, the improvement was markéd. General Motors never did recover, although Chevrolet, of late, has had some innovative products that are not bad. Chrysler has gone through so many changes. Its products are no longer as reliable as they used to be, although the small block hemis that they revived are not bad.

They build cars much better to-day. You can go fifteen thousand miles between oil changes, to-day, and that is if you use conventional oil. If you use synthetic, you can go longer. In the early 1970s, you could go only six thousand miles between oil changes. You also had to change plugs and rotor every ten to fifteen thousand miles. Until electronic ignition was standard, you also had to change points and condenser. These days, plugs go eighty to one hundred thousand miles. You do not need to change a rotor, points or condenser. Belts will last you eighty to one hundred thousand miles. They lasted about ten to twenty in the 1970s. Radial tuned suspensions did not catch on for American cars until the mid-1970s to early 1980s.

This makes no mention of safety features. Cars are better designed to protect passengers. Steering columns collapse lest the driver become impaled on it. The seat belts are better. There are now airbags. The quality and integrity of the glass is much better. The bumpers are better. The tires are of much better construction.

You needed at least 9/1 compression and hundred octane premium to get any performance. High performance engines got eight, or so, miles to the gallon. You do not need that any more and the fuel economy is much better.

They do not build them the way that they used to, allright; they build them _better_.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Schmanthony said:


> I don't know about Fiat in the early 70s in particular, but back then MOST manufacturers were making much better products than they are now.
> 
> Now if you want long term reliability and resale value your options are pretty much limited to Toyota, Honda, Ford Pickups, and that's basically it. Almost EVERYTHING else is total crap.


Im curious why you think ford pickups are the best. I owned an expedition for a while. Essentially, an F150 with an suv body. It was horrible.

Edit:
I also owned a GMC Yukon. It was fantastic.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Another Uber Driver said:


> American cars reached their low point in the 1970s:
> 
> AMC was so bad that it had to offer the bumper-to-bumper warranty. That warranty became a model for the industry.
> Chryslers would still run, but drank gasolene worse than the others.
> ...


You mention safer and you couldn't be more right about that. For all of those who think a old car, lets say a 1950's Chevrolet would just slice through a modern car, take a look at this video...






This is a older video from 2009. Cars today are even more advanced...


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Fusion_LUser said:


> You mention safer and you couldn't be more right about that. For all of those who think a old car, lets say a 1950's Chevrolet would just slice through a modern car, take a look at this video...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wow that was a pretty mint 1950s Bel Air example... Probably worth five times if not eight times more than that 2009 :biggrin:
Shame to see a beauty like that wrecked like that.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Immoralized said:


> wow that was a pretty mint 1950s Bel Air example... Probably worth five times if not eight times more than that 2009 :biggrin:
> Shame to see a beauty like that wrecked like that.


If the following post is legit... it was a fairly nice straight 6 Bel Air...
_*
"I represented the car for sale on my web site.

It belonged to an acquaintance of mine here in Northwest Indiana. The buyers found it on my site, showed-up with a wad of cash and towed it off into oblivion.

I wanted to buy it myself. It was very solid with one superb repaint done right here in Kentland Indiana. I thought having it would have made a nice addition to my 1959 Impala. I could have owned it for $5500.00 but talked myself out of it. It was a six with automatic.

When my friend found out what happened to the car, he was sick about it.. Me as well. grrrrrrrr........"*_

https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/..._session_id/8da89caefb8287a6184b057d28c611d3/
Amazing after wreck picture...










The 2009 Malibu...


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

One example of "leftist" regulations making our world a bit safer.

Cars like that used to be parts hung on a chassis, without much thought to protecting passengers. Now they're engineered with crumple zones and structures designed to dispel impact energy around and away from occupants.

Corporate decisions driven by profit only didn't do much to protect their customers. People my age can remember when seatbelts were optional equipment, and shoulder belts and airbags were fought by automakers claiming they were too expensive to make standard.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

UberBeemer said:


> remember when seatbelts were optional equipment, and shoulder belts and airbags were fought by automakers claiming they were too expensive to make standard.


When I was a kid, you did not need a seat belt, you did not need a helmet for your bicycle and you got bags at the grocery store.

The shoulder restraints on the American cars were a separate piece from 1968 through 1974. Convertibles were specifically exempted from the shoulder restraint requirement. I never liked them, so I never used them. In 1975, the one piece appeared. That was also the year that the cars would not start unless you buckled the seat belt. People used to leave the seat belts buckled which fired the electrical systems. There were so many complaints from the public that the ignition link to the seat belts disappeared. I am surprised that it has not returned. Some Korean buggies will mute the radio until you buckle the seat belt.

When I got the DeSoto as a basket case, the seat belts were missing, but, as the anchors were still there, I put them back into the car as I was putting it back together. It has lap belts, only, which were all that you could get in 1957. . When D.C. was viciously enforcing its
primary Nanny-ER-uh-*SEAT* Belt Law, I used to get pulled over all the time, as by that time, they had figured out how to put a shoulder restraint into a convertible. D.C. does not require retrofits, so the police had to let me go, as I did use the lap belt.

Odd thing, though. I once T-boned a [car of unnamed make]. He was driving his [car of unnamed make]. I was driving a 1968 Chrysler Newport. It was a forty mile per hour zone. I was doing the speed limit. This Rocket Scientist pulled a U turn right in front of me. There was no way that I could stop. I opened the door easily and walked away from the collision. I was using the lap belt, only and not the shoulder restraint. The guy in the passenger seat, who owned the car, was not using any belt and put his head through the window. His doctor told him that the only reason that he survived was that he was drunk, so the shock did not bother him. I was driving because he was drunk. The Chrysler was actually repairable and, considering that it was a forty mile per hour collision, not that bad off. The [car of unnamed make] was bent like a pretzel. The sad thing about it was that his child, in a car seat, was in the front seat. He had a "BABY ON BOARD!" thing suction cupped to the back glass. Put it this way, the only relief that I took from it was that at least I did not have to face his wife. The driver of the [car of unnamed make] got carted off in an ambulance, but, he was very much alive when they carted him away from there.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> When I was a kid, you did not need a seat belt, you did not need a helmet for your bicycle and you got bags at the grocery store.
> 
> The shoulder restraints on the American cars were a separate piece from 1968 through 1974. Convertibles were specifically exempted from the shoulder restraint requirement. I never liked them, so I never used them. In 1975, the one piece appeared. That was also the year that the cars would not start unless you buckled the seat belt. People used to leave the seat belts buckled which fired the electrical systems. There were so many complaints from the public that the ignition link to the seat belts disappeared. I am surprised that it has not returned. Some Korean buggies will mute the radio until you buckle the seat belt.
> 
> ...


One of my company cars was a late 80s VW Jetta for a while (hey, it was free, the gas was free and it ran great. My next company car was a 2001 Ford F150 Fourdoor 4x4, :smiles: ).

It had one of those seatbelts that connected above the door and retracted across you. If it wasn't buckled the car also wouldn't start.

When I went to Mexico on business I would always try to rent a VW. Those cars were FUN to drive on the mountain roads.

Nissans, not so much.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

observer said:


> It had one of those seatbelts that connected above the door and retracted across you. If it wasn't buckled the car also wouldn't start.


..............passive restraints; many cars of that era had them. There was the shoulder restraint that worked as you describe. You sat down, closed the door then buckled the lap belt. They were the subject of some controversy, but I forget the details, any more. I am not aware of any car that has them, to-day.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> ..............passive restraints; many cars of that era had them. There was the shoulder restraint that worked as you describe. You sat down, closed the door then buckled the lap belt. They were the subject of some controversy, but I forget the details, any more. I am not aware of any car that has them, to-day.


It was always amazing to me how resistant people then were to wearing a seatbelt. Something that could save their lives in an accident.

I get that nobody wants the government telling them what to do. But I always resented that my auto insurance rates were higher as a result of people not wearing them.

I dated someone whose mom had been a very successful Realtor until she hit her head on the windshield in an accident. After that, she couldn't drive. Such a waste of potential, and all from not wearing her seatbelt.

When I was in high school, someone pulled out in front of my brother, when he was driving an Austin Healey. He had a lap belt on, but there was no shoulder harness. The impact of his face against the steering wheel required a lot of plastic surgery to fix.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> It was always amazing to me how resistant people then were to wearing a seatbelt. I get that nobody wants the government telling them what to do.


I am against seat belt laws. I do resent the government's sticking its nose into my business and making a choice for me that not only was I always capable of making; I am still capable of making it. The government knows where it can take its compulsionism and knows what it can do with it once it gets there.



Christinebitg said:


> But I always resented that my auto insurance rates were higher as a result of people not wearing them.


If this were the case, your rates would have dropped dramatically once the states started to enforce seat belt laws. That has not happened. The rates did go down a bit just before the seat belt laws hit the books. It was due to the states allowing the insurance companies to sell direct rather than through an agent. The companies were able to save the fifteen per-cent commission that it paid to the agents. Other than that, the premiums only have increased.

If this were the case, the ambulance chasing television lawyers like Slimeball and Quirk or Greedberg and Buildupman would long have been put out of business. They continue to do a land office business.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I do resent the government's sticking its nose into my business and making a choice for me that not only was I always capable of making


Not any more than I resent paying for it. And yes, I am certain that it cost more then.

You want the freedom to not wear them? Fine, as long as you sign away the right to sue me for your head injury.

One of my exes used to work in a shock trauma unit. Speech pathologists get to see closed head injury patients all the time. It's like their brains are partly scrambled. Especially the motorcycle riders who weren't wearing helmets.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> Not any more than I resent paying for it. And yes, I am certain that it cost more then.


Your "certainty" is misplaced.. Keep in mind that:

1. Your specific premium decreases as you age. You will pay less for liability insurance at sixty five than you do at thirty five and especially at twenty five.

2. The only major drop in premiums since the Federal arm-twisting that led to seat belt laws has been the fifteen per-cent as most states allowed insurance companies to sell direct. This was not due to seat belt laws.



Christinebitg said:


> You want the freedom to not wear them? Fine, as long as you sign away the right to sue me for your head injury.


Consider the following scenario:

I run a red light and strike another vehicle. The driver of that vehicle is drunk. By the ";logic" or your "argument", I should not be held liable for the adverse driver's injuries because he was driving drunk in violation of the law.

If you do not want to be held liable for my injuries, do not strike my vehicle.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Consider the following scenario:
> 
> I run a red light and strike another vehicle. The driver of that vehicle is drunk. By the ";logic" or your "argument", I should not be held liable for the adverse driver's injuries because he was driving drunk in violation of the law.
> 
> If you do not want to be held liable for my injuries, do not strike my vehicle.


Bear notes that many jurisdictions have the legal doctrine of contributory negligence. Bear could argue that the extent of injury that was due to not wearing a seat belt constitutes negligence on the part of the non-wearer, but bear doesn't care all that much, because bears are judgment proof.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Here in Kangaroo land shows an example of seatbelt vs no sealbelt at the speed of 40km/h which would be just under 25 miles per hour.
I rather be belted up even at those super low speeds. Why? Because I don't want to head butt the windscreen with enough force to break it if I was sitting in the front seats and I don't want to go over the rear seats into the front seats when I'm sitting behind. Just doesn't look fun at all and I'll imagine extremely painful.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I run a red light and strike another vehicle. The driver of that vehicle is drunk. By the ";logic" or your "argument", I should not be held liable for the adverse driver's injuries because he was driving drunk in violation of the law.


I'm not sure what you're trying to demonstrate using that example.

Think of it this way. If I cause a traffic accident, and the other party was doing nothing illegal, I'm liable. At least that would be true before the laws got changed to require people to use the belts.



Another Uber Driver said:


> If you do not want to be held liable for my injuries, do not strike my vehicle.


If either you ir I knew how to prevent all motor vehicle accidents, we would hailed as the saviour of tens of thousands of lives per year, just in the U.S.

That is, if we could get people to actually do what was needed.

Staying home and not driving is not an option, for most of the people who need to make a living.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> Think of it this way. If I cause a traffic accident, and the other party was doing nothing illegal, I'm liable.


You are liable even if the other party _was_ doing something illegal. In some states, though, there is the doctrine of Contributory Negligence. In a full contributory state, if any party is more than one per-cent negligent, he is barred from recovery. The District of Columbia is one such state. In practice, however, D.C. juries rarely find contributory on the part of the plaintiff., Much of their "reasoning" 
is that "it is a big insurance company, it can afford to pay". In other states, the per-centage of contributory negligence affects the final award according to a formula.

Despite the above, in the example that I gave, the drunk driver does nothing to contribute to the collision. He is simply going through the intersection with a light in his favour. I passed a red light. Thus, I am liable, as he did nothing to contribute to the collision, despite his being drunk. You can change the scenario a bit to give a clear case of non contribution. The drunk driver can be sitting at a red light. Some clown in an Audi is driving and yakking on his wireless. ***WHAM-O!***. The drunk driver did nothing wrong and everything right, except for being drunk, but, his being drunk did not contribute to the collision. The guy in the Audi did everything wrong. The guy in the Audi is therefore liable.



Christinebitg said:


> If either you ir I knew how to prevent all motor vehicle accidents,


This is beside the point, which is one reason, of several, why my point stands. It is why you carry insurance. If you strike my vehicle, and, you are found liable, you owe. My lack of a seat belt did not contribute to the collision. Your negligence did. Had you not been negligent, you would not have struck my vehicle and I would not have been injured. For that reason, you pay (or your insurer does).

I really do wonder how effective seat belts are due to this interesting statistic: New Jersey consistently is among states with the highest Observed Usage. New Jersey also is among the states with the highest Traffic Fatality Rates. New Jersey has a Prmary Seat Belt Law that it enforces strictly. Conversely, New Hampshire consistently is among the states with the lowest Observed Usage Rates. New Hampshire also is among the states with the lowest Traffic Fatality Rates. New Hampshire has no seat belt law.

All Honour to New Hampshire for thumbing its nose at the Federal arm-twisters and letting them know that the Personal Liberties of the Good Citizens of New Hampshire are not for sale to the Washington Busybodies.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> You are liable even if the other party _was_ doing something illegal. In some states, though, there is the doctrine of Contributory Negligence. In a full contributory state, if any party is more than one per-cent negligent, he is barred from recovery. The District of Columbia is one such state. In practice, however, D.C. juries rarely find contributory on the part of the plaintiff., Much of their "reasoning"
> is that "it is a big insurance company, it can afford to pay". In other states, the per-centage of contributory negligence affects the final award according to a formula.
> 
> Despite the above, in the example that I gave, the drunk driver does nothing to contribute to the collision. He is simply going through the intersection with a light in his favour. I passed a red light. Thus, I am liable, as he did nothing to contribute to the collision, despite his being drunk. You can change the scenario a bit to give a clear case of non contribution. The drunk driver can be sitting at a red light. Some clown in an Audi is driving and yakking on his wireless. ***WHAM-O!***. The drunk driver did nothing wrong and everything right, except for being drunk, but, his being drunk did not contribute to the collision. The guy in the Audi did everything wrong. The guy in the Audi is therefore liable.
> ...


Contributory Negligence has been replaced in most jusridictions with the concept of comparative negligence, for some time now.

It allocates damages as a percentage of fault.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

UberBeemer said:


> Contributory Negligence has been replaced in most jusridictions with the concept of comparative negligence, for some time now.
> 
> It allocates damages as a percentage of fault.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/


Another Uber Driver said:


> In other states, *the per-centage of contributory negligence affects the final award according to a formula*.


(emphasis added)

The District of Columbia still has the one per-cent negligent rule. Despite that, few juries will find for contributory on the part of the plaintiff. We had a case where the plaintiff admitted on the stand that she was not looking where she was going. Still, the jury awarded her policy limits. We did get that one reversed on appeal.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> My lack of a seat belt did not contribute to the collision.


No, but it likely would contribute to the extent of your injuries.



Another Uber Driver said:


> I really do wonder how effective seat belts are due to this interesting statistic: New Jersey consistently is among states with the highest Observed Usage. New Jersey also is among the states with the highest Traffic Fatality Rates.


This is faulty logic. The two facts are not connected by any cause and effect relationship.



Another Uber Driver said:


> The District of Columbia is one such state. In practice, however, D.C. juries rarely find contributory on the part of the plaintiff., Much of their "reasoning"
> is that "it is a big insurance company, it can afford to pay".


Here in Texas, we still take jury instructions seriously.


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## DerBundes (May 16, 2016)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> What grade of gasoline do you use, and why?


Diesel


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

We don't use gas anymore...










I told my wife I'm going to do rideshare in her new car and she just laughed. Just laughed and laughed and laughed...


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Fusion_LUser said:


> We don't use gas anymore...
> ...
> I told my wife I'm going to do rideshare in her new car and she just laughed. Just laughed and laughed and laughed...


What's the range of her new car on a full charge?


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> What's the range of her new car on a full charge?


Ford claims a 270 mile range for our First Edition AWD with the extended-range battery. When we picked it up at the dealer last week with 31 miles on it the full battery showed a 240 mile range. With the first full charge at 293 miles it went to a 264 mile range.

My wife is still getting used to the new driving style and has not embraced 1-pedal drive yet so I figure in a month or so she'll get used to the new driving style and get the most range out of it


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