# Inside the Minds of Lyft/Uber CEOs - Supply and Demand



## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

An overused term still governs the core strategy in any business: “Supply and Demand." More supply than demand, reduces the value of whatever the supply is.

The more driver than needed, reduces the price for drivers, reduces the drivers’ pay. Why you think Lyft and Uber, especially Lyft, are aggressively hunting for drivers. It's a smart business strategy, flood the market with drivers, pay them less.

And now that the two companies are public, the fate of drivers are at the mercy of shareholders, so is the destiny of the CEOs. A public corporation must generate earnings. The first 3 rules of investment are earnings, earnings and more earnings. Lyft and Uber top dogs are paying themselves outrageous salaries and benefits as they know their careers may be short lived. They must make the company profitable and give shareholders dividends or be doomed. Making a rideshare company profitable with human drivers is almost impossible.

UNLESS, we go back to the basic elementary economic 101; “Supply and Demand.” More drivers than needed, reduces the value of drivers and it may keep the losses at a tolerable levels until we get to the promised land of profitable machines, AVs and machines will make money without complaining, they break, they cause accidents but that's all arithmetics, probability mathematics. And machines evolve as well, we make them better, to serves us better. 

Until we get the AVs to work, let's just flood the market with drivers and make this job another low pay, back-breaking job such as some agricultural, constructional, industrial or janitorial jobs that not many wouldn't or couldn't do.

Please, do NOT misunderstand this, and I beg you not to misinterpret any of my words, I am NOT talking about any group of people, I am NOT pointing to any ethnicity. I am talking about all humans in general, REGARDLESS of nationality, ethnicity, race, gender and religion...etc.

Some people just have less living expenses than others. Some live with family or roommate with very low rent expense, they save on food eating at home, save a buck here and there. Those who can live with less will go on even with further pay cuts which is inevitable. Those willing to work the low pay jobs will survive, maybe even beyond AVs. 

But what about those who have to support a full household? One person working to feed their family, wife and kids. It will be tough; driving 12 hrs plus and 7 days a week.

It's human nature to just ignore the inevitable and the not-very-happy ending, I'm one of them and first to admit. But, I'm so sorry, those corporations have other plans which don't include any prosperity for those of us with higher expectation. This rideshare gig will become another low pay job.


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## My3centsSuperbowl (May 20, 2019)

Even with less expenses, the drivers cut are barely sustainable. I think Uber/Lyfts biggest mistake was periodically slashing the rates over the years. Even when uberx was around $2/mile in most cities, it was still cheaper then the traditional cab companies.


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

Tom Oldman said:


> It's a smart business strategy, flood the market with drivers, pay them less.


You theory is wrong. Lyfts/Ubers business is providing a service that connects riders and drivers. They take a cut for this service. Since drivers have no set schedule, and no assigned zones, the only way to ensure that there is ANY supply is to recruit drivers like mad. We won't even get into the smaller (less than 50k) cities that will probably never have anything close to 'reliable' service.

Since Uber/Lyft have to do all the heavy lifting: write an app, provide rider AND driver support, deal with legal issues, advertise and a million other things that most ICs could never do in a million years you should be happy that the do all the grunt work for you.

Could you do a city wide ad campaign? Could you AFFORD it? What about customer issues? Or legal? Face it, being a meat sack behind the wheel is the easy part. Your job is not hard... don't die in a crash and get the pass to the destination.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

"being a meat sack behind the wheel" spoken like a true uber troll. Don't worry you have next 6 months to agonize watching the stock price vanish while you can't cash out. 
Valuation already way below the hype and hope $120 billion and still no where close to where there's no gain for insiders.
You've done your job now we're just getting started. 
How many times do you check stock price everyday. Soon you'll be checking in your sleep hopelessly begin for a rebound. Btw each rebound only a dead cat bounce. A way of teasing you just to watch it all vanish slowly.


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## Uber1111uber (Oct 21, 2017)

NOXDriver said:


> You theory is wrong. Lyfts/Ubers business is providing a service that connects riders and drivers. They take a cut for this service. Since drivers have no set schedule, and no assigned zones, the only way to ensure that there is ANY supply is to recruit drivers like mad. We won't even get into the smaller (less than 50k) cities that will probably never have anything close to 'reliable' service.
> 
> Since Uber/Lyft have to do all the heavy lifting: write an app, provide rider AND driver support, deal with legal issues, advertise and a million other things that most ICs could never do in a million years you should be happy that the do all the grunt work for you.
> 
> Could you do a city wide ad campaign? Could you AFFORD it? What about customer issues? Or legal? Face it, being a meat sack behind the wheel is the easy part. Your job is not hard... don't die in a crash and get the pass to the destination.


This site really needs a thumbs down button ?


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## My3centsSuperbowl (May 20, 2019)

NOXDriver said:


> You theory is wrong. Lyfts/Ubers business is providing a service that connects riders and drivers. They take a cut for this service. Since drivers have no set schedule, and no assigned zones, the only way to ensure that there is ANY supply is to recruit drivers like mad. We won't even get into the smaller (less than 50k) cities that will probably never have anything close to 'reliable' service.
> 
> Since Uber/Lyft have to do all the heavy lifting: write an app, provide rider AND driver support, deal with legal issues, advertise and a million other things that most ICs could never do in a million years you should be happy that the do all the grunt work for you.
> 
> Could you do a city wide ad campaign? Could you AFFORD it? What about customer issues? Or legal? Face it, being a meat sack behind the wheel is the easy part. Your job is not hard... don't die in a crash and get the pass to the destination.


Grunt work??? Are you kidding me or what. It's the driver's that do all the grunt work.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

NOXDriver said:


> You theory is wrong. Lyfts/Ubers business is providing a service that connects riders and drivers. They take a cut for this service. Since drivers have no set schedule, and no assigned zones, the only way to ensure that there is ANY supply is to recruit drivers like mad. We won't even get into the smaller (less than 50k) cities that will probably never have anything close to 'reliable' service.
> 
> Since Uber/Lyft have to do all the heavy lifting: write an app, provide rider AND driver support, deal with legal issues, advertise and a million other things that most ICs could never do in a million years you should be happy that the do all the grunt work for you.
> 
> Could you do a city wide ad campaign? Could you AFFORD it? What about customer issues? Or legal? Face it, being a meat sack behind the wheel is the easy part. Your job is not hard... don't die in a crash and get the pass to the destination.


You don't have to thank me for making you famous in tweeter. Your "meat sack behind the wheel" complete post will go viral to expose how uber insiders feel about the labor force. 
Thank you for your cooperation to exposing the poisonous culture within corporate. That's exactly what Uber needs. 
Guarantee you thousands of retweets within few hours. You're your worst enemy. Keep it coming.



Uber1111uber said:


> This site really needs a thumbs down button ?


No please. This site is a gift. It's a treasure trove of evidence to expose uber's poisonous culture. 
Every demeaning post goes viral. We need the trolls to spew their poison. They're their worst enemies. 
Remember to expose them. Copy paste their mocking remarks on tweeter.


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## My3centsSuperbowl (May 20, 2019)

No Prisoners said:


> You don't have to thank me for making you famous in tweeter. Your "meat sack behind the wheel" complete post will go viral to expose how uber insiders feel about the labor force.
> Thank you for your cooperation to exposing the poisonous culture within corporate. That's exactly what Uber needs.
> Guarantee you thousands of retweets within few hours. You're your worst enemy. Keep it coming.
> 
> ...


I guess everysite is going have it's share of shills like NOxie. Reminds me of this Ubernet member a few years ago "Randy Spears". Making uber out to be a savior.


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

NOXDriver said:


> You theory is wrong. Lyfts/Ubers business is providing a service that connects riders and drivers. They take a cut for this service. Since drivers have no set schedule, and no assigned zones, the only way to ensure that there is ANY supply is to recruit drivers like mad. We won't even get into the smaller (less than 50k) cities that will probably never have anything close to 'reliable' service.
> 
> Since Uber/Lyft have to do all the heavy lifting: write an app, provide rider AND driver support, deal with legal issues, advertise and a million other things that most ICs could never do in a million years you should be happy that the do all the grunt work for you.
> 
> Could you do a city wide ad campaign? Could you AFFORD it? What about customer issues? Or legal? Face it, being a meat sack behind the wheel is the easy part. Your job is not hard... don't die in a crash and get the pass to the destination.


Your certainly are entitled to your opinion. Unfortunately over half of your response is incomrehensive to me. May be I need to work on my English. My work area is one of far away suburbs and I'm sourounded by many tiny little cities with 10k or more population. In the mountains and valleys. Anytime I look, ants from both rideshare companies are crawling over each other. Also, when there is a shortage, they add some incentives, it takes only minutes, may 3 to 5 minutes and the orange, pink and blue and all those fooling colors disappear as the ants act like flies smelling the cake. Also, you seem to be happy with ever shrinking driver's pay, I wonder why. 
I join "Uber1111Uber" and ask for a ?thumb down in this form and that is what I'm giving you. Sorry.


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Today MONDAY May 20 2019, At 12;01 p.m. Group of seven U/L drivers started 1 ONE hour STRIKE 
Strike will be orgenised every day. Simply, at noon, nation wide turn off your app for one hour join 
the people JOIN us.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Polomarko said:


> Today MONDAY May 20 2019, At 12;01 p.m. Group of seven U/L drivers started 1 ONE hour STRIKE
> Strike will be orgenised every day. Simply, at noon, nation wide turn off your app for one hour join
> the people JOIN us.


I commend drivers who take a stand and will pass on the message. Nevertheless, a more positive outcome would result from disruption of morning rush hour. The whole point of strikes is to bring attention and media attention. 
Drivers must maximize the impact of actions. Perception is of the essence. Creating a disruption to commuting employees will affect employers as well. This generates exponential attention. 
If effectively done the media will cover it and investors will notice. 
Best way to impact uber is by influencing investors perception and causing doubts about Uber's stability. Wallstreet hates uncertainty.
Uber cannot handle further devaluation of the stock. Hit them where it matters the most. For every point drop in stock price uber losses $180 million. 
Please focus on highest impact.


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## EphLux (Aug 10, 2018)

NOXDriver said:


> You theory is wrong. Lyfts/Ubers business is providing a service that connects riders and drivers. They take a cut for this service. Since drivers have no set schedule, and no assigned zones, the only way to ensure that there is ANY supply is to recruit drivers like mad. We won't even get into the smaller (less than 50k) cities that will probably never have anything close to 'reliable' service.
> 
> Since Uber/Lyft have to do all the heavy lifting: write an app, provide rider AND driver support, deal with legal issues, advertise and a million other things that most ICs could never do in a million years you should be happy that the do all the grunt work for you.
> 
> Could you do a city wide ad campaign? Could you AFFORD it? What about customer issues? Or legal? Face it, being a meat sack behind the wheel is the easy part. Your job is not hard... don't die in a crash and get the pass to the destination.


Uber and Lyft will be out of business soon because they do not (or are unable to) charge passengers the true cost of a ride. Despite their technology and support, it will prove for naught because they have been unable to capitalize on their technology.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

https://jalopnik.com/the-legal-argument-that-could-destroy-uber-1834790506


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

No Prisoners said:


> https://jalopnik.com/the-legal-argument-that-could-destroy-uber-1834790506


Yes great article, I saw that earlier but didn't read it thru which will be my next read. Thank you for putting it on.board.


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## lowcountry dan (Jun 15, 2017)

Here's what I think will happen: a company will come along and take on Uber/Lyft. They will say, "Thanks for the concept, chumps. We are going to take all of your customers." Bye bye, Uber/Lyft. Anybody with the capital can take on these companies, especially if investors see them failing. Or Amazon could simply buy both of them. 

They do not have a corner on the market, any smart company could take them on. The concept and marketing is already there.


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## Bork_Bork_Bork (May 20, 2019)

My3centsSuperbowl said:


> I guess everysite is going have it's share of shills like NOxie. Reminds me of this Ubernet member a few years ago "Randy Spears". Making uber out to be a savior.


Yea....where is he now...lol


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## My3centsSuperbowl (May 20, 2019)

Bork_Bork_Bork said:


> Yea....where is he now...lol


Who knows. He could be getting his kicks on route 66 or singing opera or ..


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## Bork_Bork_Bork (May 20, 2019)

My3centsSuperbowl said:


> Who knows. He could be getting his kicks on route 66 or singing opera or ..


Well, you mentioned him, thought you might know. He went from Uber mouthpiece to flipping salvage cars.....


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

My3centsSuperbowl said:


> Even with less expenses, the drivers cut are barely sustainable. I think Uber/Lyfts biggest mistake was periodically slashing the rates over the years. Even when uberx was around $2/mile in most cities, it was still cheaper then the traditional cab companies.


Both companies know from day one that their business model is not sustainable for a long period of time. The purpose of dropping the rates was for growth purpose and to keep other competitors out to enter in rideshare business. Competitors were scared because both companies were and still loosing big bucks. Guber achieved their goal of growth big time. The growth give them a voice in ipo that how much market they have in hold and it help them to convince the dumb ipo investors to give them more money. Now if guber charge $2 per mile, the market is destroyed so much that they won't get that much business the one they anticipate. People are cheap. Guber show them a way to be more cheap.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

Ubermcbc said:


> Both companies know from day one that their business model is not sustainable for a long period of time. The purpose of dropping the rates was for growth purpose and to keep other competitors out to enter in rideshare business. Competitors were scared because both companies were and still loosing big bucks. Guber achieved their goal of growth big time. The growth give them a voice in ipo that how much market they have in hold and it help them to convince the dumb ipo investors to give them more money. Now if guber charge $2 per mile, the market is destroyed so much that they won't get that much business the one they anticipate. People are cheap. Guber show them a way to be more cheap.


They basically destroyed their own business model. By chasing ridership growth (to keep that VC money flowing), they had to keep lowering fares. Well over the last 5 years they've taking the ride share business from one that people used occasionally or while traveling to one that is one step above a city bus. People are now using Uber instead of public transportation because the cost is so low, and now people don't even want to pay the reduced rates, and wait for the discounts to come in their email.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

The premise of the OP is wrong.

Uber does not care if you make $2K a week or $200 as a driver. And this is the real problem. They just want all the trips completed fast and efficiently. More driver's earning less will not accomplish that.

An intelligent CEO would keep driver turnover to a minimum by ensuring practices that kept overall pay and satisfaction high. As pointed out earlier, highly paid and motivate driver's will work harder.

Limit drivers !!!!!

Uber is in a negative feedback loop situation (due to TK's corporate culture) which causes their expenses to stay high, as they need to constantly recruit replacements for the drivers who leave, because they ****ed up the driver situation with the wrong strategy from day one. They are setting up new drivers for immediate failure by flooding the market with them.

They need to realize that the autonomous car is not going to save their skins, and that it is not coming anytime soon, nor on a large enough scale to do so.

It never was.....................


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

ANT 7 said:


> The premise of the OP is wrong.
> 
> Uber does not care if you make $2K a week or $200 as a driver. And this is the real problem. They just want all the trips completed fast and efficiently. More driver's earning less will not accomplish that.
> 
> ...


Yes. Seamless and quick service should be the goal, with knowledgeable and safe drivers. High driver turnover does not help with any of that. Besides paying drivers better, Uber and Lyft need to just forego the trips that they know cause driver dissatisfaction - the long pick ups for short trips. The few dollars they make on these trips are not worth the driver rage at wasting 7 miles to drive to a pick up for a minimum fare trip - info which the companies know in advance.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

ANT 7 said:


> The premise of the OP is wrong.
> 
> Uber does not care if you make $2K a week or $200 as a driver. And this is the real problem. They just want all the trips completed fast and efficiently. More driver's earning less will not accomplish that.
> 
> ...


The SDC ploy may have been just a way to suck more investor money for a little bit longer...until the curtain was drawn back and the nothingless scheme was exposed for the investor world to see.


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## Drivincrazy (Feb 14, 2016)

Two miles is now my max pickup distance in LV. Even then, that is minus $1.20 as soon as you hit start ride. I also don't do base rate rides.


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## mi4johns (Jun 4, 2018)

Drivincrazy said:


> Two miles is now my max pickup distance in LV. Even then, that is minus $1.20 as soon as you hit start ride. I also don't do base rate rides.


I live in LV, which means you either work exclusively peak times, or the strip/fremont.

All I can say is, have fun with the traffic & drunks.


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## LuxCarSpy (Jan 25, 2019)

My3centsSuperbowl said:


> Grunt work??? Are you kidding me or what. It's the driver's that do all the grunt work.


Ride share companies will eventually merge and raise prices... AV cars are a near and intermediate wet dream (who will insure them). Uber's challenge is keeping full time drivers paid well to keep the bulk of the business. they do this by shorting part-time drivers with silly incentive programs ...FYI Uber technologies are medicore at best .. pretty much off the shelf by now .. look how many other companies are doing ride share ...


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## LubyrDude (Jan 30, 2018)

LuxCarSpy said:


> Ride share companies will eventually merge and raise prices... AV cars are a near and intermediate wet dream (who will insure them). Uber's challenge is keeping full time drivers paid well to keep the bulk of the business. they do this by shorting part-time drivers with silly incentive programs ...FYI Uber technologies are medicore at best .. pretty much off the shelf by now .. look how many other companies are doing ride share ...


As a full timer I'd like to rebut that premise. Hourly gross income had declined from ~$28 to ~$24 prior to ipo. Has quickly dropped below $20/hr since then w/ Pro to help things get worse. 
I don't see a 'strategery' in starving the driver pool but I do see it happening.


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## easyrider2020 (May 21, 2019)

Tom Oldman said:


> An overused term still governs the core strategy in any business: "Supply and Demand." More supply than demand, reduces the value of whatever the supply is.
> 
> The more driver than needed, reduces the price for drivers, reduces the drivers' pay. Why you think Lyft and Uber, especially Lyft, are aggressively hunting for drivers. It's a smart business strategy, flood the market with drivers, pay them less.
> 
> ...


40 hours a week giving 70 rides just for a "free" car who needs rent & food money when you can be sharing a rental car with your community partners 70 times per week...

I feel so bad for this generation and the last that didn't make it out boy it's a cold world


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Here is a picture of @NOXDriver at the Uber Corporate office
.









They make him put this hat on in the morning and then they hook up the voltage to the probes. Then, they send the voltage thru until he can recite the script. If he gets it wrong he is zapped repeatedly until their are no mistakes. Once the script is perfected, he is sent to post on UP and other forums. (LEAKED PHOTO)


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

>> the fate of drivers are at the mercy of shareholders

No. The fate of the drivers is in their own hands and in the hands of the other drivers.









I do my part. I walk the talk. I decline anything that may not be good. I won't go more than 6 minutes to pick. I sit hitting decline on non surge rides. I even decline low surge rides. And I will use cancel in a minute.

The problem is someone I assume is doing the 3 non surge rides I decline.

Dara is not coming to pick them up. We are at the mercy of the dummies I see here saying I still own 20,000 on my 2016 Toyota with 257,090 miles?

BTW Friday night at 7 no surge. I'm on the couch.


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## U/L guy (May 28, 2019)

NOXDriver said:


> You theory is wrong. Lyfts/Ubers business is providing a service that connects riders and drivers. They take a cut for this service. Since drivers have no set schedule, and no assigned zones, the only way to ensure that there is ANY supply is to recruit drivers like mad. We won't even get into the smaller (less than 50k) cities that will probably never have anything close to 'reliable' service.
> 
> Since Uber/Lyft have to do all the heavy lifting: write an app, provide rider AND driver support, deal with legal issues, advertise and a million other things that most ICs could never do in a million years you should be happy that the do all the grunt work for you.
> 
> Could you do a city wide ad campaign? Could you AFFORD it? What about customer issues? Or legal? Face it, being a meat sack behind the wheel is the easy part. Your job is not hard... don't die in a crash and get the pass to the destination.


If Uber had focused and established its core business before branching out with other ventures Uber would be showing a profit and drivers wouldn't be so disgruntled.
Also if Uber didn't get sucked into a price war with lyft Uber would have fared much better, but incompetence and greed were at the helm so Uber lost.


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

wallae said:


> >> the fate of drivers are at the mercy of shareholders
> 
> No. The fate of the drivers is in their own hands and in the hands of the other drivers.
> View attachment 324952
> ...


Well done, well said. Lovely


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Tom Oldman said:


> Well done, well said. Lovely


Sir you have self-respect. Thank you


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

No Prisoners said:


> Sir you have self-respect. Thank you


Thank you for your kindness and the respect that I surely don't deserve.

Please let us leave out the "Sir" part. I'm Tom (short for Tomasso in Italian and my heritage)

But you deserve all the respect, I see a lot of goodness between the lines in reading some of your posts,

Be Well and Drive Safe
Tom


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Tom Oldman said:


> Thank you for your kindness and the respect that I surely don't deserve.
> 
> Please let us leave out the "Sir" part. I'm Tom (short for Tomasso in Italian and my heritage)
> 
> ...


Much obliged. 
Regards


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