# Do i need reciepts ( paper)



## anyc (Jul 19, 2018)

Hello every one , i work for uber soon starting for lyft and on the side i do DD and UE. I make a separate account where pay goes in and all the charges related to work i use this debit card/bank account.

So my question is when filing for taxes do i need all the paper reciepts i get from rentals and gas etc or its ok to bring 12 statements to the CPA?

I live in NYC if that matters, thanks


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

anyc said:


> Hello every one , i work for uber soon starting for lyft and on the side i do DD and UE. I make a separate account where pay goes in and all the charges related to work i use this debit card/bank account.
> 
> So my question is when filing for taxes do i need all the paper reciepts i get from rentals and gas etc or its ok to bring 12 statements to the CPA?
> 
> I live in NYC if that matters, thanks


Great idea having a separate business account for your business. The bank statements should be enough for your tax person assuming all activity went thru that account. It is always good however to keep paper receipts to use as a backup or further evidence of expenditures if needed. The paper receipts can be used to verify mileage logs if they are questioned by tax authorities. You do have a mileage log right?
By having a separate business checking account you're ahead of most ride-share drivers in the bookkeeping dept. To up your game a bit you could use a bookkeeping software product like quickbooks online self employed. QBO will download your bank data and give you the means to classify expenses, purchases etc.... Also, your tax person can log on to your QBO account with your invite so you'll have nothing to even bring to the tax office! 
https://search2.quickbooksonline.com/self-employed/


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## anyc (Jul 19, 2018)

I dont have a mile log right now due to rent of the car and couple of other issues i calculated that just by deductions i will have more write off but i might be start using it next year when i get my own car. 

in NYC when i was in the TLC office one of the teachers told me that jan 1 he takes a pic of the speedometer and dec 31 also and he submits it like that on his own car and supposedly it worked for some years.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

anyc said:


> Hello every one , i work for uber soon starting for lyft and on the side i do DD and UE. I make a separate account where pay goes in and all the charges related to work i use this debit card/bank account.
> 
> So my question is when filing for taxes do i need all the paper reciepts i get from rentals and gas etc or its ok to bring 12 statements to the CPA?
> 
> I live in NYC if that matters, thanks


You do a "not taxi" rental car for NYC driving?
(Paying a flat rate every week to rent a car and you put gas in it?)
(With all maintenance included usually)

In this exact situation you need all the following.

Receipts for all rentals
Receipts for all gas
A mileage log per day/shift with

A. Starting odometer
B end odometer
C total miles driven.

At the end of the year you can write it off with actual expenses as a CAR RENTAL USED FOR a SMALL BUSINESS. Or you can deduct the miles. But either way you still need a mileage log.

Depending on what your paying to rent the car and how many miles you drive total either or could work out better for you. It's very difficult to tell before you get your end numbers.

A small fuel efficient car will lean more to mileage rate and a luxury suv will lean more towards using actual expenses.

For instance if you pay $350 a week rental and $$210 a week in gas and drive 2000 miles you will be better off using mileage but if you pay $700 per week with $300 in gas and drive 1500 miles your better off using actual expenses.

So it could really go either way..

I've done this type of arrangement on my taxes for a number of years now and it's fairly simple.

Last year I actually got a higher deduction using miles driven then actual expenses.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

anyc said:


> I dont have a mile log right now due to rent of the car and couple of other issues i calculated that just by deductions i will have more write off but i might be start using it next year when i get my own car.
> 
> in NYC when i was in the TLC office one of the teachers told me that jan 1 he takes a pic of the speedometer and dec 31 also and he submits it like that on his own car and supposedly it worked for some years.


Don't take tax advise from a teacher at the TLC! You need an IRS compliant mileage log. The easiest way is to use an app on your phone. Mileage logs are one of the most common things the IRS audits, you don't want to mess with this! 
Just to clarify, you can only use the mileage method when you lease or own the vehicle. Renting is not the same as leasing. You can switch from mileage method to actual expense method but not from actual expense to mileage method for the same vehicle. Also, if you switch from mileage method to actual expenses you'll need to adjust the basis of your vehicle by the depreciation that is built into the mileage rate.


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## R.Dub (Jul 17, 2018)

UberTaxPro said:


> Don't take tax advise from a teacher at the TLC! You need an IRS compliant mileage log. The easiest way is to use an app on your phone. Mileage logs are one of the most common things the IRS audits, you don't want to mess with this!


I am using the Hurdlr app to automatically track my mileage. I am very good about making sure I categorize all my miles as either business or personal. Is the app-based mileage tracker enough for the IRS, or should I also be recording Starting Miles on the odometer, Ending Miles on the odometer, and total miles driven for each Uber/Lyft shift I drive. I was hoping the app-based mileage tracking would be enough.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

R.Dub said:


> I am using the Hurdlr app to automatically track my mileage. I am very good about making sure I categorize all my miles as either business or personal. Is the app-based mileage tracker enough for the IRS, or should I also be recording Starting Miles on the odometer, Ending Miles on the odometer, and total miles driven for each Uber/Lyft shift I drive. I was hoping the app-based mileage tracking would be enough.


What happens if you lose your phone or the file gets corrupted?

I would do a paper log and input it onto a google docs file.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

R.Dub said:


> I am using the Hurdlr app to automatically track my mileage. I am very good about making sure I categorize all my miles as either business or personal. Is the app-based mileage tracker enough for the IRS, or should I also be recording Starting Miles on the odometer, Ending Miles on the odometer, and total miles driven for each Uber/Lyft shift I drive. I was hoping the app-based mileage tracking would be enough.


You need to be sure the app is "IRS compliant" , check with hurdlr. On your tax return you'll need the beginning and ending mileage for the year, so be sure you have your mileage on Jan1 and Dec 31 for each year.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> What happens if you lose your phone or the file gets corrupted?
> 
> I would do a paper log and input it onto a google docs file.


What happens if you lose your paper log or the google file gets corrupted? I've been using triplog for my business for two years now and haven't had any issues. Losing my phone wouldn't be an issue as I can access my account from any internet connection.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

UberTaxPro said:


> What happens if you lose your paper log or the google file gets corrupted?.


If i lose one or the other, i have the other... of course,

but if i lose both i gotta go to my "not" boss at the cab company and suck up and beg him to query a report on how many miles i drove and how much i got charged in tolls.

But that's only cause i'm not going to drive uber until the rates come back up to what they used to be.

So sometime between flying pigs and Uber/lyft having an Ebeneezer Scrooge moment and treating drivers better (you know, at least as good as the evil cab companies do)


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## wontgetfooledagain (Jul 3, 2018)

Just make it up if you get audited, it's just a paper book. Your income is going to be so low, you will not be high profile for the IRS.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

wontgetfooledagain said:


> Just make it up if you get audited, it's just a paper book. Your income is going to be so low, you will not be high profile for the IRS.


There's a member here who might argue with you about that. butchr is being audited for 2015, and his mileage log wasn't compliant with IRS rules because it wasn't contemporaneous and didn't have the required information. You can find his posts in the old (Jan 2016) thread by UberPissed entitled "Tax Attorney Here...... Ask Away" starting at post 452.


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## butchr (Jan 13, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> There's a member here who might argue with you about that. butchr is being audited for 2015, and his mileage log wasn't compliant with IRS rules because it wasn't contemporaneous and didn't have the required information. You can find his posts in the old (Jan 2016) thread by UberPissed entitled "Tax Attorney Here...... Ask Away" starting at post 452.


I am now having to update my logs with starting mileage, ending mileage, and total miles for each day driven. They now want LOCATIONS driven for every day driven for an entire year. That equals 300 plus days a year of driving for rideshare. I'm spending my Labor Day weekend with my head buried in paperwork. My suggestion to other drivers is keep good records. After your shift, jot down locations driven. You can purchase a mileage log with location and notes features. I never thought I'd get audited, but I have had a tax accountant helping me out which brings down the stress level. I'll keep you updated how things go.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

butchr said:


> I am now having to update my logs with starting mileage, ending mileage, and total miles for each driven. They now want LOCATIONS driven for every day driven for an entire year. That equals 300 plus days a year of driving for rideshare. I'm spending my Labor Day weekend with my head buried in paperwork. My suggestion to other drivers is keep good records. After your shift, jot down locations driven. You can purchase a mileage log with location and notes features. I never thought I'd get audited, but I have had a tax accountant helping me out which brings down the stress level. I'll keep you updated how things go.


So how much is that mileage log is worth to you in cash?


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## butchr (Jan 13, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> So how much is that mileage log is worth to you in cash?


Priceless.


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## wontgetfooledagain (Jul 3, 2018)

Older Chauffeur said:


> There's a member here who might argue with you about that. butchr is being audited for 2015, and his mileage log wasn't compliant with IRS rules because it wasn't contemporaneous and didn't have the required information. You can find his posts in the old (Jan 2016) thread by UberPissed entitled "Tax Attorney Here...... Ask Away" starting at post 452.


He's one in a million. Just make up the log (make it compliant) if you need to.


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## AuxCordBoston (Dec 3, 2016)

butchr said:


> I am now having to update my logs with starting mileage, ending mileage, and total miles for each day driven. They now want LOCATIONS driven for every day driven for an entire year. That equals 300 plus days a year of driving for rideshare. I'm spending my Labor Day weekend with my head buried in paperwork. My suggestion to other drivers is keep good records. After your shift, jot down locations driven. You can purchase a mileage log with location and notes features. I never thought I'd get audited, but I have had a tax accountant helping me out which brings down the stress level. I'll keep you updated how things go.


Who says locations is needed?


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

AuxCordBoston said:


> Who says locations is needed?


IRS publication 463 and the IRS correspondence auditor that butchr is dealing with.


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

UberTaxPro said:


> IRS publication 463 and the IRS correspondence auditor that butchr is dealing with.


I would fight the auditor on this. Your Uber statement records date, time, distance, fee for every trip you take. That is supplied by a 3rd party and would have more weight than a contemporaneous log by the driver (ie ACTUAL paid miles/time). Uber would also have trip start/stop GPS coordinates/addresses and that data *should* be made available to drivers in digital format.

So while you are not keeping the exact log sheet the IRS wants (and to be honest 463 is more about sales/service travel than taxi like services) Uber providing the data (ie a 3rd party) gives it much more weight than a paper log that could be easily made up.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

NOXDriver said:


> I would fight the auditor on this. Your Uber statement records date, time, distance, fee for every trip you take. That is supplied by a 3rd party and would have more weight than a contemporaneous log by the driver (ie ACTUAL paid miles/time). Uber would also have trip start/stop GPS coordinates/addresses and that data *should* be made available to drivers in digital format.
> 
> So while you are not keeping the exact log sheet the IRS wants (and to be honest 463 is more about sales/service travel than taxi like services) Uber providing the data (ie a 3rd party) gives it much more weight than a paper log that could be easily made up.


Without a mileage log you don't have any acceptable evidence of your vehicle business expenses. Third party records can not replace the log no matter how accurate the records are. You can fight the auditor all you want but the only way you'll win is to come up with a mileage log. I understand that it doesn't make sense, but it is the truth.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

UberTaxPro said:


> So how much is that mileage log is worth to you in cash?


Mine is worth it's weight in gold... literally gold... this year it's going to reduce my taxable income by $10-15,000 at 15% that's a couple grand at least.



UberTaxPro said:


> Without a mileage log you don't have any acceptable evidence of your vehicle business expenses.


And the reason for this is simple..

Cause uncle Sam says so.

But but but..

Nope... the IRS has spoken and what the law says i law.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Mine is worth it's weight in gold... literally gold... this year it's going to reduce my taxable income by $10-15,000 at 15% that's a couple grand at least.
> 
> And the reason for this is simple..
> 
> ...


Well the IRS has to follow the law also, if they're not, a taxpayer can challenge successfully. The rules about mileage logs and vehicle expenses have been consistently adhered to by the IRS, the tax court and the district courts for many years. Your not going to sway an auditor that has that much precedent backing him up. Better off spending the time coming up with a log!


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## Skinny1 (Sep 24, 2015)

Interesting

For the past 3 years I have kept a daily start and stop mileage log.... updated every day I drive. 

As far as location.... I have no clue how this would be worded. Am I supposed to write down the address where I started (usually home)
And the address I stopped? Usually within 1 mile or 2 of my home ... I basically live downtown major city.

If I was OP I would fight this, these laws need to be updated for the new gig economy and rideshare.

OP did you report little to no “net income”? I am wondering what raised the audit flag.
Also I’ve looked over the Uber statements for 2018. They are not accurate at all in mileage ... some months very close others way off.... keep your own.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Skinny1 said:


> Interesting
> 
> For the past 3 years I have kept a daily start and stop mileage log.... updated every day I drive.
> 
> ...


The best way to fight this situation is to come up with a log and concentrate on convincing the IRS that the log is an accurate representation of the taxpayers vehicle expenses.
Mileage apps record locations. This pencil and paper form used by the taxi industry has been accepted by the IRS for years:
https://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/taxi.pdfc

Vehicle deductions are subject to rigorous substantiation requirements under Code § 274(d). There are numerous tax court cases that have upheld the mileage log regulations that the IRS has imposed on us. Here is a tax court case where a *tax attorney *was denied vehicle expenses because of inadequate substantiation. He tried to substantiate his $30,000 of vehicle expenses by using corroborative evidence. He also presented a re-created log as evidence. (log was created with corroborative evidence) https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/UstcInOp/OpinionViewer.aspx?ID=11622

Even though the regulations under Code § 274(d) allow vehicle expense deductions to be established by testimony and "other corroborative evidence," that form of substantiation will often be found inadequate. This case shows us that adequate substantiation is *reliably* obtained only through contemporaneous, written documentation of each element of the business deduction. There are many other cases and the rulings have all been consistent. 99% of the time without a contemporaneous mileage log you're going to lose.


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## Skinny1 (Sep 24, 2015)

butchr said:


> I am now having to update my logs with starting mileage, ending mileage, and total miles for each day driven. They now want LOCATIONS driven for every day driven for an entire year. That equals 300 plus days a year of driving for rideshare. I'm spending my Labor Day weekend with my head buried in paperwork. My suggestion to other drivers is keep good records. After your shift, jot down locations driven. You can purchase a mileage log with location and notes features. I never thought I'd get audited, but I have had a tax accountant helping me out which brings down the stress level. I'll keep you updated how things go.


What net income did you report driving? How many miles did you report? This would let us know if a flag was raised to cause your audit.

Thanks


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

UberTaxPro said:


> Without a mileage log you don't have any acceptable evidence of your vehicle business expenses. Third party records can not replace the log no matter how accurate the records are. You can fight the auditor all you want but the only way you'll win is to come up with a mileage log. I understand that it doesn't make sense, but it is the truth.


The IRS doesn't care if I take contemporaneous logs or use a third party, they just want what they want. Going back through google or Ubers data and copy/pasting the info is more than enough. Truckers and taxis stopped using paper logs years ago. No one is writing down start/stop locations if they want accurate data. There are digital ways to record/present that information.

I get that you need a log, but you are kinda stuck on how to keep it. Lots of people do it lots of different ways.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

NOXDriver said:


> The IRS doesn't care if I take contemporaneous logs or use a third party, they just want what they want. Going back through google or Ubers data and copy/pasting the info is more than enough. Truckers and taxis stopped using paper logs years ago. No one is writing down start/stop locations if they want accurate data. There are digital ways to record/present that information.
> 
> I get that you need a log, but you are kinda stuck on how to keep it. Lots of people do it lots of different ways.


I'm all in favor of digital mileage logs! I use triplog myself.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

UberTaxPro said:


> Great idea having a separate business account for your business. The bank statements should be enough for your tax person assuming all activity went thru that account. It is always good however to keep paper receipts to use as a backup or further evidence of expenditures if needed. The paper receipts can be used to verify mileage logs if they are questioned by tax authorities. You do have a mileage log right?
> By having a separate business checking account you're ahead of most ride-share drivers in the bookkeeping dept. To up your game a bit you could use a bookkeeping software product like quickbooks online self employed. QBO will download your bank data and give you the means to classify expenses, purchases etc.... Also, your tax person can log on to your QBO account with your invite so you'll have nothing to even bring to the tax office!
> https://search2.quickbooksonline.com/self-employed/


Hi if you have a minute could you check out my post on hurricane Florence tax

Thanks


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