# Why can't we be UPS drivers?



## uberer2016

I was delivering today and saw UPS and FedEx drivers doing the exact same thing as I was doing. Then it hit me. I'm doing the exact same thing as these guys are doing yet they're getting paid twice or three times as much. WTH?? How do I become a UPS driver? 

What if Amazon enters the parcel delivery business that competes directly with UPS and FedEx? but using IC instead of employees? They could pay their drivers $25/hr without any benefits and still would rake in huge profits because UPS is paying their drivers $30/hr with full benefits and they're still making profits.


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## enigmaquip

they could pay 25/hr now and still probably come out ahead as their usps contract is $2/pkg and I'm pretty sure ups/fedex is ever higher


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## CatchyMusicLover

You go for it. I'll stick to driving a car instead of a clunk truck on days that I feel like it...


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## andvhbk

CatchyMusicLover said:


> You go for it. I'll stick to driving a car instead of a clunk truck on days that I feel like it...


Ya enjoy my own music and cool AC, comfortable car. Remember their truck has a little fan on the dashboard? Hehe.


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## UberThisMK

uberer2016 said:


> What if Amazon enters the parcel delivery business that competes directly with UPS and FedEx?


That's essentially what they are doing with Amazon Prime Air. Packages that in the past Amazon would have paid UPS or FedEx to handle are now being transported by Amazon's own cargo airline.


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## tohunt4me

uberer2016 said:


> I was delivering today and saw UPS and FedEx drivers doing the exact same thing as I was doing. Then it hit me. I'm doing the exact same thing as these guys are doing yet they're getting paid twice or three times as much. WTH?? How do I become a UPS driver?
> 
> What if Amazon enters the parcel delivery business that competes directly with UPS and FedEx? but using IC instead of employees? They could pay their drivers $25/hr without any benefits and still would rake in huge profits because UPS is paying their drivers $30/hr with full benefits and they're still making profits.


Go apply.
They hire people to load the trucks also.
They hire people to load and unload planes at the airport.
They hire extra help for holidays.
Runners to ride trucks and assist drivers and help to load trucks.
Early a.m. work.
Go apply and check it out.
Resturant and produce suppliers hire also.
Like Sysco.
Might spend 16 hours on truck. Less than 8 working.
Free refreshments at resturants.
If you dont mind riding 18 wheeler all day with trailer yanking the cab around.

All kinds of jobs at the airports also.
All kinds of jobs at the ports.

I almost hired in with a company that inspects and certifies/ repairs escape pods on cruise ships. Through a contract company like Manpower. Temp to perm.
Best way to sample a job to see if you like it and get free training.


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## Placebo17

Ups drivers make $30 + benefits. They ain't quitting their jobs which means no openings. I've also heard you can't just go straight to driving. You have to pay your dues loading and unloading at the warehouse. I could be wrong but I heard this from a ups worker while back.


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## PrestonT

Placebo17 said:


> I've also heard you can't just go straight to driving. You have to pay your dues loading and unloading at the warehouse. I could be wrong but I heard this from a ups worker while back.


This was my understanding also.


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## RGV

As I remember, the driver position is based on seniority; however, there's chance that you can apply for a driver position without being ups employee first (but it's a very long shot). Each location has a x amount of driver, and when they are fired or quit, the next person would be the one with high seniority ( higher amount of years working at ups).


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## uberer2016

RGV said:


> As I remember, the driver position is based on seniority; however, there's chance that you can apply for a driver position without being ups employee first (but it's a very long shot). Each location has a x amount of driver, and when they are fired or quit, the next person would be the one with high seniority ( higher amount of years working at ups).


I guess UPS is out then. I wonder how long you would have to work at UPS before you could become a driver then. If UPS is paying $30/hr plus full benefits using company owned trucks, I wonder how much Amazon is making off of flex drivers making $18/hr* using their own vehicles* with no benefits. Amazon should pay us $20/hr. They're so greedy.


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## RGV

uberer2016 I believe the time range vary by location, I once heard up to 5yrs. However, to my knowledge, UPS does hire Seasonal Driver, maybe you can get your luck with that.


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## UberPasco

Placebo17 said:


> Ups drivers make $30 + benefits. They ain't quitting their jobs which means no openings. I've also heard you can't just go straight to driving. You have to pay your dues loading and unloading at the warehouse. I could be wrong but I heard this from a ups worker while back.


Yup. Worked @UPS one summer. Unbelievably tough and demanding work. They said after two or three years you MIGHT be able to load the brown trucks. And some of those guys had 10 years in.
Funny thing was watching the drivers come waltzing in @7am, like they were jet pilots.


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## dirtylee

FedEx & UPS don't pay that good at all. 

All the FedEx drivers{except for FedEx express} you see are independent contractors or work for one. If you own the route, you are paid per package. 

UPS drivers are paid hourly & it sure as shit isn't $25/hr. Closer to $12-$16 depending on the region. Great benefits though.


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## jester121

Once more, for the cheap seats -- Amazon flex isn't designed to be your full time job or sole source of income. Just because people have turned it into that, and now have some unrealistic expectations about what pay they deserve, doesn't change that fact.



uberer2016 said:


> Amazon should pay us $20/hr. They're so greedy.


You're the greedy one -- clearly, there are plenty of people who think $18/hr is just great, because every time Amazon needs drivers they flip the onboarding switch and the floods of new drivers arrive.

If $18 isn't enough to support your chosen lifestyle, you should probably find a different job or cut your standard of living to what you deserve.


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## Flexxx

uberer2016 said:


> Amazon should pay us $20/hr. They're so greedy.


They can drop it to $16/hr and people would still be signing up.


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## tooc

dirtylee said:


> FedEx & UPS don't pay that good at all.
> 
> All the FedEx drivers{except for FedEx express} you see are independent contractors or work for one. If you own the route, you are paid per package.
> 
> UPS drivers are paid hourly & it sure as shit isn't $25/hr. Closer to $12-$16 depending on the region. Great benefits though.


My best friend drives for ups... they make$25- $30/hour and have OT weekly


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## impoorlikeyou

99 percent of flex drivers wouldnt even be able to pass a drug test let alone get a class A license. thats why. i see people complaining every single day about getting to many packages... 60-70 isnt alot especially if you are finishing in 2-3 hours and getting paid for 4.


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## Placebo17

People in this thread thinking we're getting paid $18... LOL.

After calculating gas, wear and tear on your vehicle, time fishing for blocks, we're making about $10 an hour. 

Only thing great about this job for a highly educated recalcitrant like myself is I work on my own terms. I love that I don't have to take sh!t from people and I could take days off whenever I feel like it. That's about it. 

I know pay is decent for UPS and Fedex but I can't imagine delivering full time all day everyday. I once did three 3 hour blocks in one day. I'd be hating life if I had to do that 5 times a week. Yuck...


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## impoorlikeyou

Placebo17 said:


> People in this thread thinking we're getting paid $18... LOL.
> 
> After calculating gas, wear and tear on your vehicle, time fishing for blocks, we're making about $10 an hour.
> 
> Only thing great about this job for a highly educated recalcitrant like myself is I work on my own terms. I love that I don't have to take sh!t from people and I could take days off whenever I feel like it. That's about it.
> 
> I know pay is decent for UPS and Fedex but I can't imagine delivering full time all day everyday. I once did three 3 hour blocks in one day. I'd be hating life if I had to do that 5 times a week. Yuck...


lol you must be driving around in a shiny new car that gets 10 mpg... and even more LOLs at you dont have to take shit from people flex drivers are pretty much disposable one complaint from a customer and your gone.


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## tohunt4me

UberPasco said:


> Yup. Worked @UPS one summer. Unbelievably tough and demanding work. They said after two or three years you MIGHT be able to load the brown trucks. And some of those guys had 10 years in.
> Funny thing was watching the drivers come waltzing in @7am, like they were jet pilots.


Wonder what the U.P.S. jet pilots come in as ???


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## Reversoul

uberer2016 said:


> I was delivering today and saw UPS and FedEx drivers doing the exact same thing as I was doing. Then it hit me. I'm doing the exact same thing as these guys are doing yet they're getting paid twice or three times as much. WTH?? How do I become a UPS driver?
> 
> What if Amazon enters the parcel delivery business that competes directly with UPS and FedEx? but using IC instead of employees? They could pay their drivers $25/hr without any benefits and still would rake in huge profits because UPS is paying their drivers $30/hr with full benefits and they're still making profits.


My cousin just got hired at UPS a few months ago. He applied for a full time driver position. He was hired on as a part time warehouse handler...

The problem is they promote from within. Everyone has to pay their dues before becoming a driver and reaching full time status.

I was going to bite the bullet and deal with the lifting and warehouse work. But with my severe spinal issues, it's just not realistic. It's annoying that I'm only in my 30's and I have this stupid back issue that hinders me. Honestly, being on my feet and/or walking long periods causes me tremendous pain.

That's why I continue to work for uber.


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## Bygosh

They hire "off the street" for drivers and it wouldn't take you all that long from within either. It used to be super competitive but at least in my area they have a decent amount of churn because the job is hard and requires 50+hrs a week. And the guy who said $12-16/hr is just flat out wrong. Ground drivers are pulling in 75k with overtime, there are even a few at the hub by me that made over 100k last year. + great benefits and vacation etc. 

Fed Ex routes are all contracted so if you could own the route then you would do pretty well. However they just changed their requirements so now each owner has to have 500+ stops a day meaning you need at least 3 routes. Used to be able to just have 1 and you could buy it for 100k or less.


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## Placebo17

impoorlikeyou said:


> lol you must be driving around in a shiny new car that gets 10 mpg... and even more LOLs at you dont have to take shit from people flex drivers are pretty much disposable one complaint from a customer and your gone.


Depends what type of complaint. If a customer says he or she was sexually assaulted or the driver tried to steal their cars and packages, I'd say definitely.

Otherwise, they're not as uptight as you think they are. Especially towards good drivers. I've heard false rumors where if you have more than 3 delivered packages not received in a month, you get deactivated. Well I had 4 in a week and the blue vests still call me a "star" driver.

Besides, why would a customer complain about you? I've never had a customer complain about receiving their packages. Only people that gave me attitude is people working at shipping and receiving or leasing office workers, very rarely though. When they give me attitude, I definitely don't take their sh!t.


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## Nomad

UberPasco said:


> Funny thing was watching the drivers come waltzing in @7am, like they were jet pilots.


LMAO... the image of Goose and Maverick walking towards the camera in those uncomfortable-looking brown shorts... Bahahahahahaha


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## Amsoil Uber Connect

I don't have the Ref for it. But Fedex lost there Employee vs IC and there drivers won a $580 Million settlement. 

Personally I'd rather drive my own car than some big truck that rides like a brick.


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## Flexxx

Placebo17 said:


> After calculating gas, wear and tear on your vehicle, time fishing for blocks, we're making about $10 an hour.


How much time do you spend fishing for blocks?

MPG? Car model & year?


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## impoorlikeyou

Flexxx said:


> How much time do you spend fishing for blocks?
> 
> MPG? Car model & year?


the whole car deprecation thing cracks me up especially when people are doing this in 10+ year old cars... i hate to break it to them but their car will never be worth more then 2-3k no matter how shiney and low mile they keep that honda/toyota/hyundai/nissan


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## CatchyMusicLover

Not to mention, if you get into even a single accident (doesn't matter whose fault) that will lower the value far more than driving it a few thousand miles.


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## Cynergie

Placebo17 said:


> Ups drivers make $30 + benefits. They ain't quitting their jobs which means no openings. I've also heard you can't just go straight to driving. You have to pay your dues loading and unloading at the warehouse. I could be wrong but I heard this from a ups worker while back.


This is 100% true. Well at least at the Michigan/Lasing Airport when (as a college student) I moonlighted as a packer at the UPS hub there. It's also a union/seniority based thing --- which means an experience based thing by default. And as a new employee, you're always at the bottom of a very high pyramid of union workers with more seniority than you. However, union membership may be a state/region/city based phenomenon. I did a brief seasonal stint at the FedEx airport hub in Sacramento a while back and they didn't seem to have a union. But then again, they did pay their permanent & temp employees well. Their PT employees did have some limited benefits as well and they also offered training if you were assigned to work on the airfield at Sac.

Basically UPS/Fed Ex want to make sure you understand their operational culture before putting you behind the wheel of one of their $$$$ trucks. The only exception I can think to this rule is if you're already an experienced class A truck driver with an extensive trucking company resume and a 100% pristine driving record. But even so, it would be a challenge on boarding directly (at least with UPS) because of the union/seniority thing.



tohunt4me said:


> Wonder what the U.P.S. jet pilots come in as ???


easily over $100k annually. But they (ideally) most likely have former or current (reserve) military training. Or a civilian commercial license with proven track record working for smaller regional airline companies.


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## tohunt4me

Cynergie said:


> This is 100% true. Well at least at the Michigan/Lasing Airport when (as a college student) I moonlighted as a packer at the UPS hub there. It's also a union/seniority based thing --- which means an experience based thing by default. And as a new employee, you're always at the bottom of a very high pyramid of union workers with more seniority than you. However, union membership may be a state/region/city based phenomenon. I did a brief seasonal stint at the FedEx airport hub in Sacramento a while back and they didn't seem to have a union. But then again, they did pay their permanent & temp employees well. Their PT employees did have some limited benefits as well and they also offered training if you were assigned to work on the airfield at Sac.
> 
> Basically UPS/Fed Ex want to make sure you understand their operational culture before putting you behind the wheel of one of their $$$$ trucks. The only exception I can think to this rule is if you're already an experienced class A truck driver with an extensive trucking company resume and a 100% pristine driving record. But even so, it would be a challenge on boarding directly (at least with UPS) because of the union/seniority thing.
> 
> easily over $100k annually. But they (ideally) most likely have former or current (reserve) military training. Or a civilian commercial license with proven track record working for smaller regional airline companies.


$100 k isnt big money.
Can make that working in plants fitting pipe or as electrician.
Check Chicago Bridge & Iron website.
A good welder can double that.


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## impoorlikeyou

tohunt4me said:


> $100 k isnt big money.
> Can make that working in plants fitting pipe or as electrician.
> Check Chicago Bridge & Iron website.
> A good welder can double that.


and yet you are on an uber forum in the flex section...


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## Shangsta

uberer2016 said:


> What if Amazon enters the parcel delivery business that competes directly with UPS and FedEx?


Why pay to own and maintain a fleet of vehicles when we will destroy our vehicles for them?



jester121 said:


> You're the greedy one -- clearly, there are plenty of people who think $18/hr is just great,


This is a race to the bottom. Look at uber and lyft. Any delivery driver who isn't eyeing their next move is a fool. Once driver ants make this gig no longer profitable you should already have your next move planned



dirtylee said:


> UPS drivers are paid hourly & it sure as shit isn't $25/hr. Closer to $12-$16 depending on the region. Great benefits though.


Wrong. You are thinking of fulfillment center workers not actual drivers


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## Side Hustle

Placebo17 said:


> Ups drivers make $30 + benefits. They ain't quitting their jobs which means no openings. I've also heard you can't just go straight to driving. You have to pay your dues loading and unloading at the warehouse. I could be wrong but I heard this from a ups worker while back.


I've talked to several and they all say what you are saying regarding paying your dues. I'm told it's a minimum 6 mos in warehouse before you get a truck, but more commonly 2-3 years warehouse first. I have heard starting out on the trucks is low $20 an hour but after 4-5 years you are in the thirties.


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## Shangsta

tohunt4me said:


> $100 k isnt big money.
> Can make that working in plants fitting pipe or as electrician.
> Check Chicago Bridge & Iron website.
> A good welder can double that.


Compared to a delivery driver or RideShare driver 100K is big money. And they aren't killing their personal vehicle in the process


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## Bobbydan

Side Hustle said:


> I've talked to several and they all say what you are saying regarding paying your dues. I'm told it's a minimum 6 mos in warehouse before you get a truck, but more commonly 2-3 years warehouse first. I have heard starting out on the trucks is low $20 an hour but after 4-5 years you are in the thirties.


Went thru this with another delivery company 2.5 years part time then a 5 year progression to full scale, worked there 12 years and was stuck on nights the whole time only to be laid off when the recession hit. Wasn't about to go thru it again with brown.


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## I_Like_Spam

uberer2016 said:


> I was delivering today and saw UPS and FedEx drivers doing the exact same thing as I was doing. Then it hit me. I'm doing the exact same thing as these guys are doing yet they're getting paid twice or three times as much. WTH?? How do I become a UPS driver?


You can certainly go for it. UPS's business is expanding with more and more internet sales and delivery work out there and a lot of UPS drivers are approaching retirement.

But its a tough racket, UPS keeps an eagle eye on its drivers. When I worked in a warehouse back during the summer Elvis died, the young man who came in to pick up the parcels we had for UPS was always complaining about how long he was going to have to work that evening to make all of the pickups and deliveries and how he probably wouldn't get home until 7 or 8.


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## Fubernuber

uberer2016 said:


> I was delivering today and saw UPS and FedEx drivers doing the exact same thing as I was doing. Then it hit me. I'm doing the exact same thing as these guys are doing yet they're getting paid twice or three times as much. WTH?? How do I become a UPS driver?
> 
> What if Amazon enters the parcel delivery business that competes directly with UPS and FedEx? but using IC instead of employees? They could pay their drivers $25/hr without any benefits and still would rake in huge profits because UPS is paying their drivers $30/hr with full benefits and they're still making profits.


It is very difficult to get ups job. You have to know someone or work in warehouse for years. They mostly hire internally. Its not just a well paying job. It is a great paying job. Most drivers after 5 years break 100k a year with just a little overtime in nyc and possibly more in ny suburbs. The benefits package is amazing too. Why does ups pay so much? Because their drivers are not nimrods who pickup pool and they never would. Talk to the average driver. Their i.q. is much higher than average uber slave. There is the difference. Most uber drivers are a notch above or below stupid.


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## impoorlikeyou

I_Like_Spam said:


> You can certainly go for it. UPS's business is expanding with more and more internet sales and delivery work out there and a lot of UPS drivers are approaching retirement.
> 
> But its a tough racket, UPS keeps an eagle eye on its drivers. When I worked in a warehouse back during the summer Elvis died, the young man who came in to pick up the parcels we had for UPS was always complaining about how long he was going to have to work that evening to make all of the pickups and deliveries and how he probably wouldn't get home until 7 or 8.


did he also complain about the 2000+ paycheck every 2 weeks?


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## Placebo17

I had a 15 minute conversation with a cool UPS driver this morning while we were in the same mail room of an apartment.

Basically he told me, there are four tiers for UPS drivers and you don't get to be permanent until you drive for 11 years. When you reach the 4th tier, you can make between $36 to $46 an hour. He says he is in 3rd tier and he makes little over $26 an hour. I think he mentioned the 1st tier drivers only make $13, $14, or something like that. Or maybe he meant, people that work in warehouses are considered 1st tier? Not sure. But he did mention when you first start out driving, you make way less than $26 an hour. 

But before you can become a driver, you have to work in the warehouse. He worked for 4 years in the warehouse before he got to be a driver. So anyone thinking about making a career out of this gig sign up with UPS as a warehouse worker ASAP. I asked him if the wait is longer now than before since there are so many people applying and he said, the wait is actually less now than before since they're hiring more drivers while cutting costs with overtime and other bonuses for the veteran drivers. He mentioned the wait is around 2 years now. And with UPS, it's all about seniority. You can't move up unless someone before you quits or gets fired. 

So there it is, I was wrong when I said UPS workers make $30 an hour. Most don't... But it's awesome that some of them get paid up to $46 an hour with great benefits.


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## I_Like_Spam

Placebo17 said:


> I had a 15 minute conversation with a cool UPS driver this morning while we were in the same mail room of an apartment.
> 
> He mentioned the wait is around 2 years now. And with UPS, it's all about seniority. You can't move up unless someone before you quits or gets fired.
> 
> So there it is, I was wrong when I said UPS workers make $30 an hour. Most don't... But it's awesome that some of them get paid up to $46 an hour with great benefits.


ups is a unionized workplace, seniority is the only thing they are allowed to consider. wait times vary by location


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## Marco55

I_Like_Spam said:


> ups is a unionized workplace, seniority is the only thing they are allowed to consider. wait times vary by location


Lolz


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## Placebo17

Today while I was doing my deliveries, a FedEx truck driver stops me and asked me if I worked full time. I said no, then he asked me if I wanted to work full time. I replied maybe. Then he explains to me there are couple spots open with his boss. He has around 140 to 150 stops per day and gets paid $1.30 per stop or something like that. He says he makes around $20 an hour and brings home about $1100 a week. I didn't want to turn the offer down since I wanted to know more. But in my head I was like, '55 hours a week delivering packages in 100 degree weather? [email protected] that!!!!!'

I asked him what cities are open. He said Chatsworth and Newhall. Mostly residential stops. 140 to 150 residential stops aren't too bad actually but I don't know if he's telling me the truth. I also asked him does he get any benefits and he said he's only been working for 8 months so he doesn't get any. Hmmm... That makes no sense but I guess he's not a FexEx employee. He just works for a delivery service. But how is it that he is able to drive around in an actual FexEx truck? Also, how can he work way over 40 hours a week and not get any benefits? Isn't that against the law if he's an employee of a delivery company?


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## Side Hustle

Placebo17 said:


> Also, how can he work way over 40 hours a week and not get any benefits? Isn't that against the law if he's an employee of a delivery company?


because, you see, they are ICs, just like you and me, oh yeah


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## Placebo17

Side Hustle said:


> because, you see, they are ICs, just like you and me, oh yeah


Did you even finish grade school?


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## getawaycar

uberer2016 said:


> If UPS is paying $30/hr plus full benefits using company owned trucks, I wonder how much Amazon is making off of flex drivers making $18/hr* using their own vehicles* with no benefits. Amazon should pay us $20/hr. They're so greedy.


Amazon provides free two-day shipping on most of their stuff, which cuts into their revenue resulting in less money to pay their drivers and warehouse workers. They also pay to rent the last mile warehouses which would otherwise be handled by UPS et al. How do they make money at all on free two-day shipping PLUS free returns?


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## jester121

Placebo17 said:


> Also, how can he work way over 40 hours a week and not get any benefits? Isn't that against the law if he's an employee of a delivery company?


No, that's not a law! It's a customary benefit -- but once again, for the 300th time, Independent Contractors aren't eligible for benefits or overtime, because they are not employees of Amazon. They are employees of their own tiny one man delivery business that has Amazon as a customer.

If you want to pay yourself overtime and benefits out of what Amazon pays your company, go for it.


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## canfin

Placebo17 said:


> Today while I was doing my deliveries, a FedEx truck driver stops me and asked me if I worked full time. I said no, then he asked me if I wanted to work full time. I replied maybe. Then he explains to me there are couple spots open with his boss. He has around 140 to 150 stops per day and gets paid $1.30 per stop or something like that. He says he makes around $20 an hour and brings home about $1100 a week. I didn't want to turn the offer down since I wanted to know more. But in my head I was like, '55 hours a week delivering packages in 100 degree weather? [email protected] that!!!!!'
> 
> I asked him what cities are open. He said Chatsworth and Newhall. Mostly residential stops. 140 to 150 residential stops aren't too bad actually but I don't know if he's telling me the truth. I also asked him does he get any benefits and he said he's only been working for 8 months so he doesn't get any. Hmmm... That makes no sense but I guess he's not a FexEx employee. He just works for a delivery service. But how is it that he is able to drive around in an actual FexEx truck? Also, how can he work way over 40 hours a week and not get any benefits? Isn't that against the law if he's an employee of a delivery company?


FedEx ground and home drivers are not FedEx employees , they work for a contractor who won the route from fedex


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## TBone

Placebo17 said:


> People in this thread thinking we're getting paid $18... LOL.
> 
> After calculating gas, wear and tear on your vehicle, time fishing for blocks, we're making about $10 an hour.
> 
> Only thing great about this job for a highly educated recalcitrant like myself is I work on my own terms. I love that I don't have to take sh!t from people and I could take days off whenever I feel like it. That's about it.
> 
> I know pay is decent for UPS and Fedex but I can't imagine delivering full time all day everyday. I once did three 3 hour blocks in one day. I'd be hating life if I had to do that 5 times a week. Yuck...


It absolutely does not cost $8-15 an hour to operate a vehicle.


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## corniilius

If you want to be a driver for UPS, your best bet would be to sign up for temp work during the holiday season. You could be a driver helper, get signed on full time and work your way toward it. People have been waiting in line for years for a driving position to open up. Don't expect them to just hire you off the streed ahead of everybody that is more deserving of it. Sorry, but you're not special.


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## Placebo17

jester121 said:


> No, that's not a law! It's a customary benefit -- but once again, for the 300th time, Independent Contractors aren't eligible for benefits or overtime, because they are not employees of Amazon. They are employees of their own tiny one man delivery business that has Amazon as a customer.
> 
> If you want to pay yourself overtime and benefits out of what Amazon pays your company, go for it.


What you don't seem to realize is if you have a "boss" you're not an IC. The FedEx truck driver I talked to has a boss. The boss might have a deal with FedEx as an IC but the driver is an employee. Know the meaning of IC before you start spewing nonsense.

Do any of you actually know the Labor Laws or do you just like to hear yourselves talk?



TBone said:


> It absolutely does not cost $8-15 an hour to operate a vehicle.


Whenever someone uses absolutely, always, never... They don't know $hit about $hit. How the hell do you know what someone drives? Unfortunately I have a gas guzzler even though it's a small car. Yes, it only gets 15 miles per gallon when I'm doing deliveries. It gets ~25 miles on the freeway but not when it's stop and go constantly. So when I have 60 mile blocks it takes 4 gallons of gas. You do the math.



canfin said:


> FedEx ground and home drivers are not FedEx employees , they work for a contractor who won the route from fedex


Once again, if you're working for a contractor, you have a boss. That means you're not an IC.


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## jester121

Placebo17 said:


> What you don't seem to realize is if you have a "boss" you're not an IC. The FedEx truck driver I talked to has a boss. The boss might have a deal with FedEx as an IC but the driver is an employee. Know the meaning of IC before you start spewing nonsense.
> 
> Do any of you actually know the Labor Laws or do you just like to hear yourselves talk?


Yeah, I've only spent half my career doing IT consulting as an independent contractor (1099). Why are you babbling about bosses? You're the one who thinks every 40 hr employee automatically gets benefits....


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## TBone

It absolutely does not cost $8-15 an hour to operate a vehicle.
Whenever someone uses absolutely, always, never... They don't know $hit about $hit. How the hell do you know what someone drives? Unfortunately I have a gas guzzler even though it's a small car. Yes, it only gets 15 miles per gallon when I'm doing deliveries. It gets ~25 miles on the freeway but not when it's stop and go constantly. So when I have 60 mile blocks it takes 4 gallons of gas. You do the math.


Your not driving 60 miles in one hour in the city. Most only average 60 mph on the freeway. Sounds like you need to do the math


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## Savvy412

I’m a ups driver, so let me break this down for everyone because everyone is wrong .

1.every hub is different , some you can walk right in and drive , some you have to wait months, years . But when you sign the sheet and you get the call to drive . You pass the driver test in a manual , and then 5 day (paid) boot camp . NOW.. once you pass, you are now on the list . But the key is FULL TIME DRIVER . That is the cream of the crop . Most sit on the bench , and fill in for vacations , sick. Bla bla. And then you work warehouse/drive until you build senority . Bids go up for full time drivers because of quoting , retiring,ect

But there is also a COVER driver . Ups puts together a lot of “whatever” routes and we have guys that walked in and have worked every single day . They aren’t even full time but they get more hours than some full time . So don’t ever just assume you can’t be a driver . For every 5 inside they have to hire 1 outside . So you can walk in and end up a full time driver in a month ..

Now pay . It’s simple ...hours you will average 52-55 so your getting 15 hours time in a half every week . Remember that . We get paid every Friday. But pay

1st year -18.75 (end up around $900 a week (after taxes ) paycheck is usually $1,200 before tax
2nd year -19.50
3rd year -25.50
4th year-35-36.75 (1,800-$2110) a week

And with all this , full coverage benefits for free. We pay union dues but it’s nothing. Maybe $60 a month

And then your top rate. Topped out. That’s it . Most drivers make around 80-100k. Unless your one of the older drivers who have easy routes and don’t care about ot. They make around 75k

Big rig drivers is a long wait , that’s for burnt out package car drivers . They make more , not much , but work 14 hour shifts ..

But starting out, I made like 1200 every Friday at bottom rate . Top rate you can pull 2k a week. But more like 1800 most of the months . Still decent doe though . Not that great.. It’s hard, not gonna get into all that I could type for hours . It’s barley worth the money . Every day we all wanna quit lol . They break you , take your soul . It is NOTHING,NOTHING compares to Uber . I understand why you would think that though but , it’s just not man . But it wouldn’t hurt if you became a driver but once you did , you would laugh at this thread and you saying that .

But ya that’s pretty much it. Warehouse makes anywhere from 9.50-30.


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## Placebo17

Like you said every hub is different so I'm pretty sure the UPS driver in Los Angeles I was talking to wasn't lying. But as we all know, delivering full time is no joke. I don't know how some of these guys do this for decades.


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## Cynergie

Great post Savvy412 I've got a cousin in midwest who works at an Amazon Fulfillment WH. They work a special reduced rate night shift (3 days per week for 12 hrs) and get paid $17.50 per hr. But that's with full benefits (medical, dental, eye) and financial benefits like 401k, life insurance, workers comp etc. Amazon even offers full tuition payments for students provided they've been there for at least a year.

So Amazon rates are definitely comparable/competitive with UPS (and by default FedEx) nationwide. My cousin's salary is for Amazon drone personnel who never interact with Flex or IC drivers though. The closest they come to intercting with drivers is loading their Amazon drier partner 18 wheeler trucks (like Werner, Sheppard etc).

But if a lowly Amazon drone can make that much doing night shift, it's likely Amazon will be paying their driver partners more on the delivery end. Will be interesting to see how fast Amazon takes out FedEx and UPS in the transportation sector once they make their logistics operation official. Wouldn't surprise me if this market dominance was an overnight phenomenon, given the vasts network of ICs and Flex drivers in the Amazon network to date. And the fact Besos is now THE Boss Kingpin of the Billionaire Boys Club (finally unseating Gates) if this morning's news is to be believed 



Placebo17 said:


> Like you said every hub is different so I'm pretty sure the UPS driver in Los Angeles I was talking to wasn't lying. But as we all know, delivering full time is no joke. I don't know how some of these guys do this for decades.


^^ 
This. I did a brief stint at UPS as a morning packer while a College undergrad. The hub I was at serviced the local airport and you had to pull some serious union seniority working in WH as packer before you could be considered a driver. UPS mgmt at that hub were brutal to their drivers though. Bringing back packages and/or not completing your route on time were serious reasons to get docked and written up. UPS mgmt sure kept the union work relations reps busy on a 24/7 basis. Think Fed Ex is pretty much the same way. It's like driving for Amazon as an IC on steroids


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## I_Like_Spam

Cynergie said:


> And the fact Besos is now THE Boss Kingpin of the Billionaire Boys Club (finally unseating Gates) if this morning's news is to be believed


Its a matter of public record how many shares of Amazon Mr. Bezos owns- he has to file with the SEC as an"insider", and report when he buys or sells shares.

I think it can be believed that he's at the top of the heap for now.


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## Savvy412

But I did forget to mention you have to qualify to be a full-time driver. That means 30 days qualification. You have to run it perfectly. No accidents. Your fault their fault it doesn’t matter. And you have to run it as fast as the computer says it should be ran which is near impossible . Hardest 30 days of your life. So just because you get in the door and get the call to drive you still have to qualify you can’t just be any type of person driving you have to be efficient fast handle stress. There is a reason UPS drivers are battle tested. Not like an Uber driver.


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## Savvy412

[QUOTE="Cynergie, post: 3192745, member: 101571"

But if a lowly Amazon drone can make that much doing night shift, it's likely Amazon will be paying their driver partners more on the delivery end. Will be interesting to see how fast Amazon takes out FedEx and UPS in the transportation sector once they make their logistics operation official. Wouldn't surprise me if this market dominance was an overnight phenomenon, given the vasts network of ICs and Flex drivers in the Amazon network to date. And the fact Besos is now THE Boss Kingpin of the Billionaire Boys Club (finally unseating Gates) if this morning's news is to be believed 

[/QUOTE]

Amazon is huge, but profits are not for shipping for them.. crazy enough, if amazon dropped us tomorrow, it would only reduce revenue by 1.67 percent.

What annoys me is UPS sure post. We give away like 30 percent of our packages to the post office. I suppose if amazon cut us off we would take that back lol. I dont know how I feel about the whole thing, a part of me is like good riddence. We are already wayyy over worked, cant even imagine ups taking on alll of our stuff, plus allll of amazon ( if amazon never delivered) its just too much. Its hard to imagine even amazon taking on all of their own. Right now they give so much to the post, and ups. So I highly doubt if they cut everyone off, a couple guys in a civic could get it done. (and if they roll out a delv service) Way easier said then done. not to mention in the "amazon" timely matter. bezos said he doesnt want to "cut ups off" he just wanted to alleviate the work load and not rely on 1 company. That makes sense to me. They wouldnt want to shoot them selves in the foot by cutting off ups and or Usps.


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## oicu812

Savvy412 said:


> Amazon is huge, but profits are not for shipping for them.. crazy enough, if amazon dropped us tomorrow, it would only reduce revenue by 1.67 percent.


2016 numbers still equates to over $2 billion in revenue. UPS stocks would drop while Amazon's will climb if Amazon drops UPS entirely. It's not like Amazon doesn't diversify its delivery partners.


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## Side Hustle

Placebo17 said:


> Depends what type of complaint. If a customer says he or she was sexually assaulted or the driver tried to steal their cars and packages, I'd say definitely.
> 
> Otherwise, they're not as uptight as you think they are. Especially towards good drivers. I've heard false rumors where if you have more than 3 delivered packages not received in a month, you get deactivated. Well I had 4 in a week and the blue vests still call me a "star" driver.
> 
> Besides, why would a customer complain about you? I've never had a customer complain about receiving their packages. Only people that gave me attitude is people working at shipping and receiving or leasing office workers, very rarely though. When they give me attitude, I definitely don't take their sh!t.


Well, well let me tell you how. I had a guy come out of his house yelling at me because I both knocked and rang the bell when I delivered. It was about 630pm. He actually reported it toAmazon and I got a CE email.


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## Savvy412

everyone on my route hates the amazon drivers. (everyone) they feel safe seeing a ups professional driver. They say they just have random unmarked cars pulling up, walking around their house at night. A lot say its making them not ship with amazon.
packages are left on the grass, ran over by cars. wrong address. its a big cluster f*CK. i had a whole street missing packages because the driver was on the wrong street and thought he was on another. So many car accidents because they think they can just park anywhere because they are "delivering" rushing, doing random u turns in busy streets trying to keep up. WE have had 3 ups drivers struck by a amazon driver in the past 2 months just in my hub

and then they call ups because they think its us. Its seriously a disaster.


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## Placebo17

LOL everyone on your route hates the amazon drivers... Don't be so full of yourself. What are they gonna say? They prefer Flex drivers since their packages get a nicer ride than your piece shit clunker? Think before you spew nonsense. Either that or Flex drivers are just garbage in Pitt. I don't know though, delivering packages to residential areas aren't that difficult so they might be feeding you BS.


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## Cynergie

uberer2016 said:


> I guess UPS is out then. I wonder how long you would have to work at UPS before you could become a driver then. If UPS is paying $30/hr plus full benefits using company owned trucks, I wonder how much Amazon is making off of flex drivers making $18/hr* using their own vehicles* with no benefits.














> ....Amazon should pay us $20/hr. They're so greedy.


Folks like jester121 have already set you straight on the illogical track of this statement.

Regardless, Besos already has mate. Assuming you work in the SF Bay area that is......


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## Savvy412

Placebo17 said:


> LOL everyone on your route hates the amazon drivers... Don't be so full of yourself. What are they gonna say? They prefer Flex drivers since their packages get a nicer ride than your piece shit clunker? Think before you spew nonsense. Either that or Flex drivers are just garbage in Pitt. I don't know though, delivering packages to residential areas aren't that difficult so they might be feeding you BS.


 Is it really that hard to believe that people dont feel comfortable with a new unmarked car ,walking up and around their house ..in the morning or at night? I even startle them, and they see me every day. I see guys in black hoodies, hoods up, just walking behind houses and im thinking..what the hell is he doing? Its hard to tell is he a driver or what? and not to mention its a disaster and they leave them anywhere. I see packages getting soaked when if they walked it 2 more feet, it could of been under something. And like I said, mixing up the addresses all the time. Plus amazon wont return anything (ups picks it up) so that turns into a headache also

so ya...Im out there, I talk to them every day. who are you again?

And ill say it again with confidence (everyone) and I mean (EVERYONE) I have talked to, does not like the idea of just random strangers on their property. If you dont understand that? Maybe you were born in 1942. because people are all on edge as it is. Ask a mailman what their customers think of uber/amazon drivers..or fedex.. ill wait. They will say the same thing.


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## Placebo17

Are Flex drivers in Pitt that banged up and [email protected]? I've never once startled a customer delivering to million dollar homes even at night times. Maybe because I look like one of their neighbors?

I'll say it with confidence (everyone) and I mean (EVERYONE) I have talked to, likes the idea of getting their packages delivered in two days, even Saturdays and Sundays in a clean car rather than a junk beat up UPS or FedEx truck.

I've met plenty of cool UPS drivers during my routes but there are plenty of asshole UPS drivers as well. And I'm pretty sure, there are plenty of good Flex drivers in Pitt and plenty of asshole Flex drivers as well. Let's not categorize all Flex drivers into one category. Nothing is absolute as you put it.

Bottom line, most people care about getting their products cheap and fast. That's the reason why they use Amazon in the first place... They couldn't care less, if UPS or FedEx went bankrupt tomorrow and all the deliveries went to the Flex program.


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## Savvy412

Placebo17 said:


> Are Flex drivers in Pitt that banged up and [email protected]? I've never once startled a customer delivering to million dollar homes even at night times. Maybe because I look like one of their neighbors?
> 
> I'll say it with confidence (everyone) and I mean (EVERYONE) I have talked to, likes the idea of getting their packages delivered in two days, even Saturdays and Sundays in a clean car rather than a junk beat up UPS or FedEx truck.
> 
> I've met plenty of cool UPS drivers during my routes but there are plenty of asshole UPS drivers as well. And I'm pretty sure, there are plenty of good Flex drivers in Pitt and plenty of asshole Flex drivers as well. Let's not categorize all Flex drivers into one category. Nothing is absolute as you put it.
> 
> Bottom line, most people care about getting their products cheap and fast. That's the reason why they use Amazon in the first place... They couldn't care less, if UPS or FedEx went bankrupt tomorrow and all the deliveries went to the Flex program.


right, because when people need a package shipped to texas by 4pm tuesday..their amazon uber driver will take care of that right? And also all the businesses that we pick up over 500 pieces a day from, im sure they can stuff it in a civic. And also the 30 percent volume that we give to USPS so they could stay afloat. Like most amazon workers, you guys think the world revolves around little 5pound residential deliveries.. The parcel industry is way bigger than that. UPS delivers 20 million packages..(a day) Those type of deliveries are actually the least profitable for any business. The last mile delivery. If "hypothetically" amazon wipped out ups. That will be terrible for the world. When ups went on strike in the 90s, we almost shut down the economy.

Though, I understand your overall point, I think you dont understand how much people "dont like change' and like what they know. They like the mail man, ups man and fedex man. Not random strangers everyday. But yes at the end of the day, they want their package on a doorstep.


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## jester121

Wow, someone has quite the hero complex...

For the tiny percentage of people who actually talk to their mailman or UPS driver, I'm more inclined to figure if they're whining about what "their customers" think of Flex drivers, they're actually transferring their own opinions instead of reporting someone else's. Like you are.


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## imfatandold

Cynergie said:


> Folks like jester121 have already set you straight on the illogical track of this statement.
> 
> Regardless, Besos already has mate. Assuming you work in the SF Bay area that is......


dont forget about the facilities while ups spends millions to have worker friendly hubs amazon still has people pushing around pallet jacks. amazon is just a shit company exploiting people and people like us that do flex are part of the problem.


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## Behemoth

imfatandold said:


> dont forget about the facilities while ups spends millions to have worker friendly hubs amazon still has people pushing around pallet jacks. amazon is just a shit company exploiting people and people like us that do flex are part of the problem.


Bezos is #1 now not without a reason.


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## fxcruiser

dirtylee said:


> FedEx & UPS don't pay that good at all.
> 
> All the FedEx drivers{except for FedEx express} you see are independent contractors or work for one. If you own the route, you are paid per package.
> 
> UPS drivers are paid hourly & it sure as shit isn't $25/hr. Closer to $12-$16 depending on the region. Great benefits though.


WOW! Total Mis-information Dirty-dude!! Went through the hiring / interview at DFW. They pay $18.75/ hour for Holiday Temp drivers. On Jan. 15th, 2018 your temp gig is over....sorta. If your Supe was happy with your job performance you will be asked to stay. You will then have to become (Unfortunately) a yoUnion Puke! Wage goes to $30 /Hour. PS: the "brown trucks" are called "Package Cars".


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## dirtylee

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/dallas-ups-driver-salary-SRCH_IL.0,6_IM218_KO7,17.htm

https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Delivery-Driver-Salaries-at-UPS,-Dallas-TX

Dallas market pays significantly less than the rest of the country.

If you handle the peak season grind, all the best to you.


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## Savvy412

fxcruiser said:


> WOW! Total Mis-information Dirty-dude!! Went through the hiring / interview at DFW. They pay $18.75/ hour for Holiday Temp drivers. On Jan. 15th, 2018 your temp gig is over....sorta. If your Supe was happy with your job performance you will be asked to stay. You will then have to become (Unfortunately) a yoUnion Puke! Wage goes to $30 /Hour. PS: the "brown trucks" are called "Package Cars".


35.75 a hour..some states 36. I dont know where everyone gets this (30) from


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## fxcruiser

dirtylee said:


> https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/dallas-ups-driver-salary-SRCH_IL.0,6_IM218_KO7,17.htm
> 
> https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Delivery-Driver-Salaries-at-UPS,-Dallas-TX
> 
> Dallas market pays significantly less than the rest of the country.
> 
> If you handle the peak season grind, all the best to you.


YEAH...scrUber will pay wayyy better..,..Dude , you are a shill...right!!?? You can hire on with IN'N'Out Burger in Grapevine starting (on their front window) at $11 /Hr. You scrUber for many reasons BUT mostly because you be 'Shillin for scrUber! Got a Neighbor Driving for "Brown"...She said "Bring Lil Dirty Lee to a meet here in Grapevine with his last 2 years of Tax returns and I will bring mine and then , if he shows...Loser Buys!! 
PONY up Be#$CH!! Show the Group here Your big money....UPS obviously doing it wrong!



Savvy412 said:


> 35.75 a hour..some states 36. I dont know where everyone gets this (30) from


Dirty Lee ain't seen the ball since kickoff...and is most likely a scrUber shill!!


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