# Uber boss [Dara] says U.S. market unprofitable amid tough competition from Lyft



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Uber Technologies Inc will continue to lose money in its home market for at least the next six months as rival Lyft Inc poses a fierce competitive challenge, Chief Executive Dara Khosrowshahi said on Thursday in his first public comments since taking the top job at Uber two months ago.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...mid-tough-competition-from-lyft-idUSKBN1D9348


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## Kembolicous (May 31, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Uber Technologies Inc will continue to lose money in its home market for at least the next six months as rival Lyft Inc poses a fierce competitive challenge, Chief Executive Dara Khosrowshahi said on Thursday in his first public comments since taking the top job at Uber two months ago.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...mid-tough-competition-from-lyft-idUSKBN1D9348


Amazing. The bastards take 25% of the rides, have nothing in the ride, but an app and still complain they cannot make money. Leeches. Gee, maybe they should reduce drivers pay! The quicker Uber dies, the better.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Most of my morning trips Uber actually pays me more than the passengers are paying.


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Maybe they'll stop giving out free rides?


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## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

They supplement fares with minimums. They have been losing billions for years as a trade for market share.


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## Kembolicous (May 31, 2016)

I have a swell idea, maybe it is time to charge what the ride is worth, and not this absurd payscale in use now. There is a reason a taxi costs what it does.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Flat fares{commuter pax have them}, boost, & ant incentives cost money huh???

Maybe raise the drivers pay past a pittance. Uber is already charging 20% more on upfront fares. Bump drivers up from .85/mi to atleast 1.15/mi. Only morons will drive lyft then.



Dropking said:


> They supplement fares with minimums. They have been losing billions for years as a trade for market share.


They don't supplement min fares. Pax have a min charge before booking fees. You get a 75% cut of that irregardless of distance.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

dirtylee said:


> Flat fares{commuter pax have them}, boost, & ant incentives cost money huh???
> 
> Maybe raise the drivers pay past a pittance. Uber is already charging 20% more on upfront fares. Bump drivers up from .85/mi to atleast 1.15/mi. Only morons will drive lyft then.
> 
> They don't supplement min fares. Pax have a min charge before booking fees. You get a 75% cut of that irregardless of distance.


They really do supplement the rides a good portion of the time. When I look at what the passenger paid very often that amount is less than what I was paid.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Kembolicous said:


> Amazing. The bastards take 25% of the rides, have nothing in the ride, but an app and still complain they cannot make money. Leeches. Gee, maybe they should reduce drivers pay! The quicker Uber dies, the better.


They take considerably more than 25%, more like 38%, when you factor in booking and service fees and upfront pricing where they are increasing rider fee, but not driver pay.


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## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

Dropking said:


> They supplement fares with minimums. They have been losing billions for years as a trade for market share.


Yes and No. They do supplement fare on minimum rides but they still have money:

On typical minimum fare rides, Rider pays $6, You get $1.8 then Uber "supplement" your fare to $2.62, But then Uber still gets 6 - 2.62 = 3.38 (2.1 booking fee plus your commission). In such rides Uber's cut is usually over 50%.

I have a recent ride where rider paid $8 and I got $3 while Uber took $5. Only rides where Uber lose money are those incentives given out to first time riders.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

Kembolicous said:


> Amazing. The bastards take 25% of the rides, have nothing in the ride, but an app and still complain they cannot make money. Leeches. Gee, maybe they should reduce drivers pay! The quicker Uber dies, the better.


The better for Taxis maybe.


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## outface (Oct 15, 2017)

There is no justice if Uber doesn't fail.


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## defcon888 (Oct 10, 2017)

I just started driving for Uber in Sept and just started with Lyft a week ago. I am perfering Lyft over Uber because of the pay and Lyft customer service seems nice and more friendly to me. When I have contacted Uber, they always come across as being SMUG and condescending. 

I like that Lyft sends out texts that say "There is a concert/event tonight at XXXXX, there will be a high need for rides....head over". All I get from Uber is "This weekend is 1.5% weekend". 

I still think it is wrong to take more than 15% of a fee....all Uber and Lyft do is control the servers, write code...they don't actually drive....we the drivers are making them or breaking them.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

It's an absurd situation but they must just be spending all of it trying to gain market and create a market. They are only not profitable because they are competing with another company that is perfectly happy to burn up money to gain market as well.



defcon888 said:


> I still think it is wrong to take more than 15% of a fee....all Uber and Lyft do is control the servers, write code...they don't actually drive....we the drivers are making them or breaking them.


This is why it is obscene that they are losing money.


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## rembrandt (Jul 3, 2016)

The insane rat race to bottom continues.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

Kembolicous said:


> Amazing. The bastards take 25% of the rides, have nothing in the ride, but an app and still complain they cannot make money. Leeches. Gee, maybe they should reduce drivers pay! The quicker Uber dies, the better.


They take 40 to 50% off the total of each ride. You just don't notice because you aren't looking at what the pax paid at the end of each ride. Do the math.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

According to the experts on these forums, it costs nothing to run and market an app as big as Uber. 

Just, lol!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

ColdRider said:


> According to the experts on these forums, it costs nothing to run and market an app as big as Uber.
> 
> Just, lol!


According to the experts at Uber, it costs nothing to drive and maintain a fleet of vehicles as big as Uber's.

Because UBER doesn't. They let US do that


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

ColdRider said:


> According to the experts on these forums, it costs nothing to run and market an app as big as Uber.
> 
> Just, lol!


Uber does ~20 - 25 billion in bookings a year. 20% of that is $4 - 5 billion.

Assuming 20k staff all making $150k, that's $3b. Add in extremely generous executive pay & servers for another $1 billion/year.

These morons still blow another $2 - 3b past that a year.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> According to the experts at Uber, it costs nothing to drive and maintain a fleet of vehicles as big as Uber's.
> 
> Because UBER doesn't. They let US do that


''Tis why you can deduct your miles.


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## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

dirtylee said:


> Uber does ~20 - 25 billion in bookings a year. 20% of that is $4 - 5 billion.
> 
> Assuming 20k staff all making $150k, that's $3b. Add in extremely generous executive pay & servers for another $1 billion/year.
> 
> These morons still blow another $2 - 3b past that a year.


And the funny thing is, Out of those 20K staff that gets paid 150k a year, Maybe only 10% is contributing something to the company and rest are just dead weight.

They had a good thing going yet they decided to ruin it.


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## ChiDriver007 (Oct 24, 2017)

"Uber Technologies Inc will continue to lose money in its home market for at least the next six months as rival Lyft Inc poses a _fierce competitive challenge_, Chief Executive Dara Khosrowshahi said on Thursday in his first public comments since taking the top job at Uber two months ago.

If Lyft is "fierce competitive challenge" you company might just suck... Dara. Have you thought of that? I know I know you are new there but I start to believe the old dogs are feeding you bullshit.


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## Igsfire (Sep 28, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Uber Technologies Inc will continue to lose money in its home market for at least the next six months as rival Lyft Inc poses a fierce competitive challenge, Chief Executive Dara Khosrowshahi said on Thursday in his first public comments since taking the top job at Uber two months ago.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...mid-tough-competition-from-lyft-idUSKBN1D9348


Uhhhh yeah their losing money, its called competition equilibrium on a competitive market. Profits will balance out and now it is a market race.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Kembolicous said:


> I have a swell idea, maybe it is time to charge what the ride is worth, and not this absurd payscale in use now. There is a reason a taxi costs what it does.


If they did this they would lose massive market share,

Not to taxis... but to people driving themselves and walking or taking a bus. (you guys know who these people are)

This entire network they built is a house of cards... When they raise the rates it's going to look like this...

If uber raises their prices, they will fail...

If lyft raises their prices, they will fail...

the only way to keep it going in the US (baring a few select markets) is to keep burning money. Raising the rates high enough will PO their entire customer base very quickly..

Sure *Some* will pay the higher rates for uber. The people who are taking uber instead of a taxi.. the ones who get a $10.00 ride to work 3-4 times a week in orlando... no way will they/can they pay $25-30 for the same trip.

Uber's path to profitability is exactly what they have been doing for years now... inventing new ways to screw over the drivers.

That's their only choice left... keep prices low or hemorrhage customer base.

They *Have* to be banking on the other going under first, or some pie in the sky idea like self driving vehicles.. considering uber can't even make a lease program profitible, having a fleet of anything is going to be a gigantic effort in futility with these jokers...

The rates are SOOO LOW... that i think that cutting the driver out of the equation and owning the cars themselves will COST them money over the way thing are now.

I count the days until these investors realize that this entire game is an effort in futility that will never work at these prices..


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## Kembolicous (May 31, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> If they did this they would lose massive market share,
> 
> Not to taxis... but to people driving themselves and walking or taking a bus. (you guys know who these people are)
> 
> ...


Lyft/Uber rates do not have to go as high as a taxi, which runs about 1/3 of taxi rate. I understand wanting to beat taxi cost, but come on, not by 2/3. If the prices would go to 65% of a taxi trip, they could still make money, passengers still get a bargain, and and drivers could survive. Seems Uber/Lyft are the equivalent of an Obama phone. Let someone else subsidize the phone, let the drivers subsidize the trip.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Kembolicous said:


> Lyft/Uber rates do not have to go as high as a taxi, which runs about 1/3 of taxi rate. I understand wanting to beat taxi cost, but come on, not by 2/3. If the prices would go to 65% of a taxi trip, they could still make money, passengers still get a bargain, and and drivers could survive. Seems Uber/Lyft are the equivalent of an Obama phone. Let someone else subsidize the phone, let the drivers subsidize the trip.


2/3 the cost of a taxi is still a 100% increase (in a lot of markets). You can't raise the rates that much and not lose market share...

Orlando would take a heck of a lot more than double.

71c- $1.60 is a 125% increase.. to get to 2/3rds of the taxi per mile rate of $2.40.


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## jonhjax (Jun 24, 2016)

I don't understand why people keep telling each other "well this is why Uber is losing money, yadayadayada". Take all other thoughts out of your mind except this one: Uber will have to substantially raise its' rates, maybe as much as double them under their current corporate structure (including r&d on self driving cars, etc.), if they're going to make a profit. That's it, period!! Now, they will probably up their commissions by a decent amount when they do this. How much Uber raises its' take and how much more drivers will make is yet to be determined. That's it, period!! I've posted this multiple times on this forum and it appears a lot of people here either don't or can't understand this. Are so many of you in denial about this basic fact of business?? This is very basic. It's not very hard to understand. God bless you all. Good luck with Uber.

Kimbo and Mears,
Uber and Lyft will have to get very near the rates you're talking about to make a profit unless they strip certain divisions of theirs down by quite a bit or eliminate some things entirely. That's what these companies will have to do sooner or later to make a profit, plain and simple.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I've never had a passenger tell me they think Uber is too expensive. Not once.


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## jonhjax (Jun 24, 2016)

The passengers know they're getting something for next to nothing. It's almost a "too good to be true" deal. That's probably why you don't get complaints about the price of fares - well, basic, non surge fares, that is. When Uber, Lyft and others finally start concentrating on making true profits prices for rides will get higher, maybe much higher, in short order. Then you might hear the cheaper passengers complain, perhaps complain a lot, but they won't have very many other options that are much less expensive to ride with.
BTW, if the base fare gets above $10 - $12.00 you'll see a big drop in passenger volume. Taxis will get a large portion of minimum and less than minimum fares - no - not will get, taxis ARE getting lots of those fares. I retired a couple of months ago from being a taxi driver (actually completely retired. I don't need part time or any other jobs right now. I may get a part time job in a few months, though) in Jacksonville. Florida and the minimum rate for Uber was just over $7.00 when I retired. I saw plenty of fare less than $10.00, a few fares between $15 and $50.00, and I also saw random fares that were a good deal more than $50.00 in a few different areas, but the only times they were fairly consistent was from 3 AM - 6AM. More they than once I had people tell me they couldn't get Uber or Lyft. Maybe the drivers didn't want the rides, I don't know the reasons for this but I took advantage of the situation and certainly had no complaints about doing so.


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## defcon888 (Oct 10, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I've never had a passenger tell me they think Uber is too expensive. Not once.


I have had many PAX tell me that Lyft is better as far as price and value. I tell them that Lyft gives us more (they take about 25% as opposed to 36% for uber).

I work in the Silicon Valley area and there will always be plenty of rides...it is cheaper for people to UberPOOL or LyftLINE than to get a car and pay for gas, maintenance, insurance.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Sadly, Uber is about to get a big steroid cash rush from SoftBank.
This delays the death of Uber til at least 2020.


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## defcon888 (Oct 10, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Sadly, Uber is about to get a big steroid cash rush from SoftBank.
> This delays the death of Uber til at least 2020.


Well, since the SPRINT didn't close the deal with T-Mobile, they need a place to put their money...sadly, just like Sprint (SoftBank is Sprints sugar daddy), it is a losing battle!


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

defcon888 said:


> Well, since the SPRINT didn't close the deal with T-Mobile, they need a place to put their money...sadly, just like Sprint (SoftBank is Sprints sugar daddy), it is a losing battle!


I know. Apparently SoftBank doesn't know or doesn't care.
One should never get a boner for a business aquisition based on power lust, but that's exactly what SoftBank has for Uber.
An overwhelming desire to dominate the world's biggest dying unicorn.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I've never had a passenger tell me they think Uber is too expensive. Not once.


I've only had one and he was too drunk to know how little he really paid!!


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## defcon888 (Oct 10, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I know. Apparently SoftBank doesn't know or doesn't care.
> One should never get a boner for a business aquisition based on power lust, but that's exactly what SoftBank has for Uber.
> An overwhelming desire to dominate the world's biggest dying unicorn.


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## wb6vpm (Mar 27, 2016)

defcon888 said:


>


hahaha!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> It's an absurd situation but they must just be spending all of it trying to gain market and create a market. They are only not profitable because they are competing with another company that is perfectly happy to burn up money to gain market as well.
> 
> This is why it is obscene that they are losing money.


Whats obscene is :

THEY CAUSE DRIVERS TO LOSE MONEY !


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

rembrandt said:


> The insane rat race to bottom continues.


And that, my friend, is a race NOBODY wins.


Coachman said:


> I've never had a passenger tell me they think Uber is too expensive. Not once.


I've done about 3300 trips and only one ever complained...and that was when Uber was forced by the CRA to add sales tax to the fare.


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## rembrandt (Jul 3, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Whats obscene is :
> 
> THEY CAUSE DRIVERS TO LOSE MONEY !


Drivers themselves truely believe that they are making 'profits'. Uber/Lyft are lucky that people do not know what loss/profit means.


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## Coca-Cola (Oct 11, 2017)

How can they say Uber is not making any money?

When Uber first started back in 2009, Uber has only $1.
But now Uber has $72 Billion.

So, how can they say Uber is not making any money?


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## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Coca-Cola said:


> How can they say Uber is not making any money?
> 
> So, how can they say Uber is not making any money?


Just like drivers do to maximize their income. Tell the riders your having a bad day in order to get tips!


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Coca-Cola said:


> How can they say Uber is not making any money?
> 
> When Uber first started back in 2009, Uber has only $1.
> But now Uber has $72 Billion.
> ...


You are I'll informed.
Uber has raised a total of 16 billion, and loses almost 3 billion a year.
I'd say "you do the math", but you are capable.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Coca-Cola said:


> How can they say Uber is not making any money?
> 
> When Uber first started back in 2009, Uber has only $1.
> But now Uber has $72 Billion.
> ...


50 billion, the soft bank deal puts the value of uber at 50 billion in regards to how much investment is giving them what % in stock, also the sale price of a portion of shares.

So that's 20 billion they lost in value in a year.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> 50 billion, the soft bank deal puts the value of uber at 50 billion in regards to how much investment is giving them what % in stock, also the sale price of a portion of shares.
> 
> So that's 20 billion they lost in value in a year.


Much of that loss can be attributed to TK which is why he's now sitting on the sidelines.


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## Coca-Cola (Oct 11, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You are I'll informed.
> Uber has raised a total of 16 billion, and loses almost 3 billion a year.
> I'd say "you do the math", but you are capable.


What Uber do with the money they charge from drivers I don't know.

All I know is 25% fee is a lot of money for just using their app.

So, here is my next question.
If Uber is losing money every year, why the hell don't they get out and do something else? Why waist time?


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Just like drivers do to maximize their income. Tell the riders your having a bad day in order to get tips!


Hmm, I always try and project a visage of happiness over the dark despair simmering under the surface.

Should I go straight to the "I'm really feeling suicidal tonight, thinking of going the wrong way up this off ramp thats coming up but I dont want to die alone", or something a little less bleak?


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Not profitable in USA & Canada, not profitable in the entire South East Asia region. Judged unfit to run a taxi service in London. It's time to change the business model, Dara. It's not really working out too well.


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

Bubsie said:


> Hmm, I always try and project a visage of happiness over the dark despair simmering under the surface.
> 
> Should I go straight to the "I'm really feeling suicidal tonight, thinking of going the wrong way up this off ramp thats coming up but I dont want to die alone", or something a little less bleak?


So you mean to tell me...

That they do that down under also...

Lately it seems that this is happening...

Much more frequent here in the US...8>O

Rakos









PS. This guy is ready for Thanksgiving


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

FormerTaxiDriver said:


> SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Uber Technologies Inc will continue to lose money in its home market for at least the next six months as rival Lyft Inc poses a fierce competitive challenge, Chief Executive Dara Khosrowshahi said on Thursday in his first public comments since taking the top job at Uber two months ago.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...mid-tough-competition-from-lyft-idUSKBN1D9348


Safety tip: never try to corner the worldwide taxi market with just an app.


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