# NYC's Uber Driver Claims - Only $10k Take Home on $60k for 2015



## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Not posting this in News, because I have an opinion.

*NYC Uber Driver Shares Tax Docs, Says He Only Took Home $10K in 2015*

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Uber-Driver-Makes-Tax-Returns-Public-376117981.html



> One New York City Uber driver made his tax filings public Monday and claimed the popular ride-sharing company is ripping him off.
> 
> "I don't think Uber cares," said Antonio Pacheco. "I don't think Uber cares if we drop dead to be honest with you."
> 
> ...


If you look at that last statement, the driver is including the car payment as an expense... that's correct on a cash flow basis but wrong on an actual income basis. The car payment could be on a 12 month loan, which would make it astronomical compared to the depreciation of the car in those 12 months.

This does look like a driver that bought a new car only for Uber and shouldn't have.

Thoughts?


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

It was too vague to judge. Did he take mileage? Sounds like he claimed "actual" expenses. His depreciation on his car WOULD NOT take mileage into account and wouldn't be accurate.


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## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Tim In Cleveland said:


> It was too vague to judge. Did he take mileage? Sounds like he claimed "actual" expenses. His depreciation on his car WOULD NOT take mileage into account and wouldn't be accurate.


If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

According to what several tax accountants have told me, including my current one, the deduction for the vehicle itself is based on depreciation. You can, however, deduct fully the annual interest that you pay on the loan.*

As much as the TNCs do take from you, and, as costly as it can be to go into this business, still, even I would find it difficult to believe his numbers.









*Add the usual disclaimer that I am not a tax professional, thus, I am not qualified to dispense tax advice. Anyone who wants tax advice should seek it from a professional qualified to dispense tax advice.


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

His accountant works with other drivers so you know what that means.  You can only deduct the percentage you are working while driving or doing other business. If his car is livery and registered as an LLC, commercial insurance and the whole bit, along with the fees in NY that was mentioned in another thread about NJ,  then he does have higher deductions than most drivers, as his accountant pointed out. Doing this part time in less regulated markets would have much less to deduct. For all I know the poor guy is trying to do this full time, thinking he made a ton until he met Travass' accountant.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

10 grand off of 60 grand
I mean that's good if you're just trying to show low income to pay lower taxes
but if we're talking about actual money, me thinks he needs to fire his accountant, or himself
its not like New york is 75cents a mile like a lot of major markets


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## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> 10 grand off of 60 grand
> I mean that's good if you're just trying to show low income to pay lower taxes
> but if we're talking about actual money, me thinks he needs to fire his accountant, or himself
> its not like New york is 75cents a mile like a lot of major markets


I agree. Maybe he needs to take MightyMouth's class?


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

Filing that doesn't mean he's right or won't get audited, just means that's what he chose to file. You can tell he fudged the numbers with his accountant who helps drivers with deductions.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

5 Star Guy said:


> His accountant works with other drivers so you know what that means.  You can only deduct the percentage you are working while driving or doing other business. If his car is livery and registered as an LLC, commercial insurance and the whole bit, along with the fees in NY that was mentioned in another thread about NJ,  then he does have higher deductions than most drivers, as his accountant pointed out. Doing this part time in less regulated markets would have much less to deduct. For all I know the poor guy is trying to do this full time, thinking he made a ton until he met Travass' accountant.


I think the real story here is getting glossed over in the face of this particular driver's numbers, which don't mean much unless you dig deeper. The real story is what the accountant said. He said that the typical net profit he has seen for an Uber driver is about 30% of the gross fare, so in the case of a driver grossing $60k that would make it more like an $18k net profit.

Granted, this is tax talk, not necessarily "real take home pay", and the drivers with lower operating costs are going to pocket more, but I think it still is a pretty harsh wake-up call to those who fixate on the bright shiny ball of gross fares which Uber loves to promote, instead of looking at actual profit.

Those of us who have been IC's for years know that you can't buy groceries with gross, only with net. I have seen so many inexperienced people start businesses only to fail in a short amount of time because they thought they were making tons of money (while undercutting the competition) and started spending it lavishly, only to realize too late that their actual income was only a small fraction of the gross. It is the ignorance of those kinds of people that Uber loves to prey upon.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

I'm a tax accountant. If you use actual expenses, you can deduct interest and depreciation but not payments. If you use mileage, you cannot deduct any other car expenses except tolls, cleaning costs and certain types of registration expenses (for example if the locale makes uber drivers pay a specific registration fee)


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

ginseng41 said:


> I'm a tax accountant. If you use actual expenses, you can deduct interest and depreciation but not payments. If you use mileage, you cannot deduct any other car expenses except tolls, cleaning costs and certain types of registration expenses (for example if the locale makes uber drivers pay a specific registration fee)


The difference is you're a reputable accountant.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

I absolutely am. It's why uber tried to make me leave our recent local meeting. They didn't like me telling drivers they were losing money on a lot of the trips they'd been accepting under our old rates lol


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

Dude has a lot of dependents to feed. 6 kids will eat your paycheck real fast.

And tax accountant would lose license if he was helping Uber drivers to cheat the system.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

He included paying for hookers on Saturday night while trolling for Ubers in the alley


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

But there are excellent, legal ways to work with the system


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## LondonONTdriver (Oct 29, 2015)

This is a great thread and needs to be bumped up to the top. I agree that drivers earnings are probably about 20-40% of their actual total fares after expenses.

We have a lot of kool-aid drinking delusional drivers falling for Uber's math.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

I'm earning $1.4 per mile driven since rates were cut and then raised including errands while driving so mine is way higher than that. But, accountant


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

Make sure you use the Mile IQ app, or something better that tracks mileage. The report goes right to the accountant.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

I've had serious issues with the mileage apps. They seem to count my running as well as real miles. I've just started tracking my non business miles for my uber car since I use my 2nd car when doing personal stuff locally


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Fool is going to get audited & heavily fined.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

If an accountant filed that return, it's the accountant who will be in deep s***. I can't imagine how any would possibly do i. I know when rules can be bent, but this is outright cheating. The only way you can deduct payments is if you're a corporation and then you can't deduct those other things. I wonder where that guy got his degree


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

ginseng41 said:


> I've had serious issues with the mileage apps. They seem to count my running as well as real miles. I've just started tracking my non business miles for my uber car since I use my 2nd car when doing personal stuff locally


Take another look at Mile IQ, no I'm not the president of the company. You can manually disable it. When you want to track it you select if the trip was for business or personal or just disable it like I do.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

dirtylee said:


> Fool is going to get audited & heavily fined.


The things is, that he probably won't. The IRS is woefully understaffed and tends to only audit the big players


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

5 Star Guy said:


> Take another look at Mile IQ, no I'm not the president of the company. You can manually disable it. When you want to track it you select if the trip was for business or personal or just disable it like I do.


Which becomes a huge inconvenience when you have to do it every time you run to the bathroom or whatever


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

ginseng41 said:


> Which becomes a huge inconvenience when you have to do it every time you run to the bathroom or whatever


What, it tracks you moving around your house?


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> What, it tracks you moving around your house?


The IRS might, not the app.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

ginseng41 said:


> If an accountant filed that return, it's the accountant who will be in deep s***. I can't imagine how any would possibly do i. I know when rules can be bent, but this is outright cheating. The only way you can deduct payments is if you're a corporation and then you can't deduct those other things. I wonder where that guy got his degree


My CPA has us sign a statement agreeing that he is filing based on info we supply. He is responsible for doing it right and following the IRS rules. So yeah, I can see where the tax guy would be on the hook for this. Or maybe they could be cell mates.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

Older Chauffeur said:


> What, it tracks you moving around your house?


Yes, it tracks all movements I do if they're more than a few feet. It was ridiculous having to go delete all of that


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

ginseng41 said:


> Yes, it tracks all movements I do if they're more than a few feet. It was ridiculous having to go delete all of that


Not to beat a dead horse, since it doesn't look like you're interested but for everyone else I believe Mile IQ knows like Waze your movement with GPS, speed and what not. You can try it for free for 40 rides and see if you like it. If you disable it you'll get to track the rides you really want to track for free. Lastly I'm sure you'll get reports from clients who use these apps who drive for work like real estate, drivers and not those who try to deduct bathroom breaks.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Undermensch said:


> Not posting this in News, because I have an opinion.
> 
> *NYC Uber Driver Shares Tax Docs, Says He Only Took Home $10K in 2015*
> 
> ...


He can claim the interest and 57.5 cents per mile , it would still shrink the gross down really far.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

ginseng41 said:


> I'm a tax accountant. If you use actual expenses, you can deduct interest and depreciation but not payments. If you use mileage, you cannot deduct any other car expenses except tolls, cleaning costs and certain types of registration expenses (for example if the locale makes uber drivers pay a specific registration fee)


If you go to mileage route, cannot you deduct interest on loan payments as well?


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> If you go to mileage route, cannot you deduct interest on loan payments as well?


Yes.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> If you go to mileage route, cannot you deduct interest on loan payments as well?


It's a bit weird, but here's a bulletin for car expenses in simple language

https://www.1040.com/tax-guide/taxes-for-the-self-employed/deducting-auto-expenses/


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

I should throw on here that if you use a credit card for business expenses and carry a balance, you can deduct that interest as well, proportional to the fraction that are business expenses. I recommend, a separate card


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

5 Star Guy said:


> Not to beat a dead horse, since it doesn't look like you're interested but for everyone else I believe Mile IQ knows like Waze your movement with GPS, speed and what not. You can try it for free for 40 rides and see if you like it. If you disable it you'll get to track the rides you really want to track for free. Lastly I'm sure you'll get reports from clients who use these apps who drive for work like real estate, drivers and not those who try to deduct bathroom breaks.


Personally, I prefer - TripLog - because you can set it to only start tracking if it's plugged in and moving over 2MPH. Plus MileIQ clearly states on their FAQ that they don't support trips that have less than 10-15 minutes rest between trips (https://support.mileiq.com/hc/en-us/articles/203802199-Can-I-use-MileIQ-for-ride-sharing-). I've been using TripLog for over a year ... and it was a life-saver for my tax records.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

I haven't tried that one. I'll give it a go. I don't really find my current method too difficult though


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

ginseng41 said:


> Yes, it tracks all movements I do if they're more than a few feet. It was ridiculous having to go delete all of that


Obviously I'm behind the curve with this stuff. I assumed with the name "Mile IQ" that it hooked up either directly or by Bluetooth to your car. Instead, it sounds like it works like the health app on my iPhone that counts my steps. For me, writing down odometer readings for business or medical related trips has become a habit and is easy.


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## kakauber (Apr 20, 2016)

He is lucky he made some money...most of us are dying to make a penny let alone a profit.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

ginseng41 said:


> I've had serious issues with the mileage apps. They seem to count my running as well as real miles. I've just started tracking my non business miles for my uber car since I use my 2nd car when doing personal stuff locally


I tried a couple of mileage apps but find for me paper works best. I do put it in excel but it's easier and faster for me to just write mileage down than mess with an app. Plus I've been doing it that way since 1991. Old dog...


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I tried a couple of mileage apps but find for me paper works best. I do put it in excel but it's easier and faster for me to just write mileage down than mess with an app. Plus I've been doing it that way since 1991. Old dog...


I'm keep a book in the car, write down the amount each time I'm using the car for something else and add up like 20 numbers at the end of the year. It's so much easier to keep track of non business miles


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

dirtylee said:


> Fool is going to get audited & heavily fined.


That is my fear


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## gofry (Oct 20, 2015)

ginseng41 said:


> I've had serious issues with the mileage apps. They seem to count my running as well as real miles. I've just started tracking my non business miles for my uber car since I use my 2nd car when doing personal stuff locally


You must be a terrible accountant (no clients) if you drive for Uber.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

gofry said:


> You must be a terrible accountant (no clients) if you drive for Uber.


I'm an excellent accountant, it's how I'm making money with uber. I absolutely despise office jobs though so I can only do the work in small doses.


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## William May (May 10, 2016)

Do you guys enter miles driven daily or total for the week. I have started daily records but have a couple of months for 2016 entered total miles driven for the week. Do I need to convert those to approximate daily miles for the week. Also is there and excel spread sheet or program that I can use to enter the mileage I have recorded on a word document? Thanks.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

I keep track in segments. So say I only use my car for uber for 1p days, I just log that 10 day segment. The IRS is fine with this if you've another car, which I do. They may be more picky if not


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

William May said:


> Do you guys enter miles driven daily or total for the week. I have started daily records but have a couple of months for 2016 entered total miles driven for the week. Do I need to convert those to approximate daily miles for the week. Also is there and excel spread sheet or program that I can use to enter the mileage I have recorded on a word document? Thanks.


ginseng41 probably knows more about that. There are templates for Excel you should be able to grab for free. I think it depends on how specific you want to get and if you are using your car for more than one business. The more specific you are the better you can see if you are making money.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

LondonONTdriver said:


> This is a great thread and needs to be bumped up to the top. *I agree that drivers earnings are probably about 20*-40*%* of their actual total fares after expenses.
> 
> We have a lot of kool-aid drinking delusional drivers falling for Uber's math.


*Maybe in NYC*, which puts the majority of the U.S. drivers in a deficit or loss mode for Ubering. I've done the deal for a couple years of tax losses and no, it's not remotely worth doing "for that." (tax losses)


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