# Information and Outcomes of Uber Management Meeting



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

I have just spent time again with uber management.

Interesting facts and outcomes to report.

1. Uber do have an automated script for checking the validity of current car registrations and it has an issue that they are addressing asap. 
2. When being locked out from the app after not accepting two requests, it is no longer for set time of 2/5 mins. You can log back in immediately. Many people, including myself lobbied for this change.
3. There are 12,000 uber staff worldwide
5. For Brisbane as an example, 25% of drivers driver for 40+ hours per week and over 50% drive for less than 10 hours per week.
6. A rate review is currently underway and it is very likely that rates will rise. uber are aware that all drivers want rates to increase.
7. Uber are looking into making it not possible for a rider to 'cancel' during a trip.
8. The nearest car is not the only selection uber use. The selection system is evolving and complex. For example new riders will get higher rated drivers for the first few trips and vice versa, new drivers get higher rated riders for the first few trips.(for drivers after the initial 500 trips)
9. Uber are moving to a display of the total fare for riders and not to display the surge factor multiple
10. über in general are moving from supporting the rider point of view in disputes to supporting the driver point of view.
11. Pricing will change for riders that request a short trip and the nearest driver is far away. The rider price will increase to compensate the distance the driver has to travel to the rider pickup address.


----------



## SydneyUber Chick (Feb 12, 2017)

thanks for the info. Is this info for QLD (specifically rate rises etc) or are they considering these changes nationally?


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

SydneyUber Chick said:


> thanks for the info. Is this info for QLD (specifically rate rises etc) or are they considering these changes nationally?


Nationally. As they move to an upfront price estimate for riders, where the surge factor will not be shown, it makes it easier to move towards a more dynamic rate system for drivers. 
Uber are well aware that driver rates are low in many places and the driver 'churn' is too high.


----------



## Banker Pete (Jan 16, 2017)

Encouraging news, Paul. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

Banker Pete said:


> Encouraging news, Paul. Keep up the good work.


Thanks. I have detected a change in the tone of the conversation and certainly I get a feeling that things may get better over time.


----------



## kpkool (Mar 7, 2017)

Is there a point 4?


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

kpkool said:


> Is there a point 4?


lol, no, my bad.


----------



## joffie (Jan 31, 2016)

Point 9- noted they do this in America, however many drivers are reporting it's no longer 80/20 as drivers get paid for mileage and uber pockets the difference. Drivers are now going the longer way to make up however pax fare does not change.

Point 11 - I believe uber has compensated some drivers who have driven long to pick up. I think this was in Singapore


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

Please note...

*I do not represent any association or group and I speak to uber as an individual driver*.


----------



## SydneyUber Chick (Feb 12, 2017)

Paul Collins said:


> Please note...
> 
> *I do not represent any association or group and I speak to uber as an individual driver*.


Im curious as to how one gets a voice as an individual driver?


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

SydneyUber Chick said:


> Im curious as to how one gets a voice as an individual driver?


It is not really straight forward to get ongoing management access.
1. I was given a contact for Uber by a Manger in Microsoft Australia as MS invested into my company. Mutual friends type situation.
2. I am admin of 4400 members in a Facebook group and I think that may have some bearing as well as an introduction by a private driver of Sam Bool to both Sam's in Qld.
3. I am not sure it is a 'privilege' to meet with uber management as my experience, attitude and corporate IT background has 'earned' me access perhaps.

It is not practical or perhaps even beneficial for all drivers to have management access. Far too many unhappy drivers that would launch into a, adversarial approach with them in my opinion.


----------



## χ²(1) (Jun 1, 2016)

Paul Collins said:


> It is not practical or perhaps even beneficial for all drivers to have management access. Far too many unhappy drivers that would launch into a, adversarial approach with them in my opinion.


Nevertheless, it is still necessary for drivers or a drivers association representative to have ongoing management access, in order to provide "real" communication, rather than the email response templates that are the norm.


----------



## John smith4321 (Oct 21, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> Totally agree, however bodies like the RSD aa have no acres to uber as refuse to meet with them due to their adversarial and militant approach.


Haha please


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

John smith4321 said:


> Haha please


In fact, uber reported to me that the RSDA a got hostile at the last meeting they have with the qld govt and now the govt refuses to meet with them. This was confirmed in part by a current committee member that I am in contact with.


----------



## JohnnyDee (Mar 21, 2016)

Paul Collins said:


> In fact, uber reported to me that the RSDA a got hostile at the last meeting they have with the qld govt and now the govt refuses to meet with them. This was confirmed in part by a current committee member that I am in contact with.


Hello Paul, am sorry to interrupt but if ANY negative comments are made about the R s D AA then lets be realistic; you jump on to them. You have made it very clear how anti R s D AA you are, but are you doing all this on behalf of the "other" association the R S D u ?

You have had "talks" with them in past (messaging between you and wannabee Vin Diesel and his 100 pseudonyms)

Good luck either way as anything that can come out of this in the positive is good for all.


----------



## JohnnyDee (Mar 21, 2016)

Paul Collins said:


> Actually, to be honest I do not think that any association can achieve much with uber at all. They should divert their time to insurance, repairs and tyre discounts for uber drivers.
> No one, no association is ever going to 'force' uber to do anything.
> The rsd u strike action to me was a way to communicate with the riders and to inform them of the low profitability of uber drivers in general. I was in communication with uber before and after the strike and they were fine with me trying to raise public support. They understood that and in fact said it may help them internally to push for higher rates.
> As soon as an association or the like sits down with uber it is all 'on the record' and often that means a frank and open discussion can not take place.
> ...


I do agree with you, unfortunately the likes of Max have had a negative response, with a bravado attitude. One does not email the demands to Uber; maybe he should take a leaf from your book?

As for the strike action, the first was a "stop work" for the morning hours on the back of the taxi stop work (here in Melbourne) then the 2nd strike extended to Brisbane.

Has any of the stop work affected Uber? No. Has it inconvenienced any passenger? No.

Unless each and every "partner" is to stop driving - to have not one driver logging on for a 12 or 24 hour period nothing will happen. But let us also be realistic, we have more chance of seeing the Easter bunny arrive in a couple of weeks than have all drivers log off.

Both "associations" should literally just disappear, start a fresh and partners collectively need to unite to address the issues.

Guess I will be looking out for the easter bunny instead


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

JohnnyDee said:


> I do agree with you, unfortunately the likes of Max have had a negative response, with a bravado attitude. One does not email the demands to Uber; maybe he should take a leaf from your book?
> 
> As for the strike action, the first was a "stop work" for the morning hours on the back of the taxi stop work (here in Melbourne) then the 2nd strike extended to Brisbane.
> 
> ...


Correct. All that the strikes did was get media coverage and the opportunity to press a message of low rates to the general public. If did not effect drivers, riders or uber in reality.

I do not think it is possible to have any collective of small businesses like uber drivers are. 22% of drivers spend 40 plus hours in a car and 52% drive for less than 10 hours per week. Impossible to unite that constructively.


----------



## SolsUber101 (Jan 28, 2016)

So the perfect Uber ponzi scheme is working 100%

The word is starting to spread in Qld and Vic that driving for Uber is the lowest paid (job) in Australia. Contract work, I shake my head at this so called contractor (job) work.

Uber has found a way to pay even less than the illegal 7-11 in a legal way. Our government should hang their heads in shame.


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

SolsUber101 said:


> So the perfect Uber ponzi scheme is working 100%
> 
> The word is starting to spread in Qld and Vic that driving for Uber is the lowest paid (job) in Australia. Contract work, I shake my head at this so called contractor (job) work.
> 
> Uber has found a way to pay even less than the illegal 7-11 in a legal way. Our government should hang their heads in shame.


Some do not have the income as the main reason they drive and some use the $20k accelerated depreciation to save on other business income like me.
Not all drivers are low paid, just the ones in your head that are driving full time and have no other business interests.. 52% of all drivers drive less than 10 hours per week.


----------



## SydneyUber Chick (Feb 12, 2017)

SolsUber101 said:


> So the perfect Uber ponzi scheme is working 100%
> 
> The word is starting to spread in Qld and Vic that driving for Uber is the lowest paid (job) in Australia. Contract work, I shake my head at this so called contractor (job) work.
> 
> Uber has found a way to pay even less than the illegal 7-11 in a legal way. Our government should hang their heads in shame.


Uber was never set up to be a full time job. It was designed as ride sharing, with people picking up others on their way to or from work etc. Basically a paid carpool. Now some people have chosen to make it their full time job (including myself at the moment while I look for something more permanent) but thats a choice we make (or dont) based on the current state of play. What do you want or expect the government to do about it?


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

SydneyUber Chick said:


> Uber was never set up to be a full time job. It was designed as ride sharing, with people picking up others on their way to or from work etc. Basically a paid carpool. Now some people have chosen to make it their full time job (including myself at the moment while I look for something more permanent) but thats a choice we make (or dont) based on the current state of play. What do you want or expect the government to do about it?


Correct, in the real world every driver accepts the term and conditions of uber every time the turn on and sign into the app.
That means personal responsibility. It does not mean that uber is fair, ethical or has a soul, but it clearly puts the responsibility on the drivers shoulders. They need to own that.


----------



## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

SydneyUber Chick said:


> Uber was never set up to be a full time job. It was designed as ride sharing, with people picking up others on their way to or from work etc. Basically a paid carpool.


Uber was never setup to basically be a paid carpool. The destination feature hasn't been available since day dot, so you could have ended up going in exactly the opposite direction to work for most of Uber's existence. I agree it was never meant to be a full time job, and Paul's stats on driver hours certainly verifies that by and large drivers don't do it as a full time job.


----------



## χ²(1) (Jun 1, 2016)

SydneyUber Chick said:


> Uber was never set up to be a full time job.


The existence and sanctioning of car leasing providers by Uber, suggests otherwise. Earning enough fares to pay back a car lease can only be accomplished driving full time.

To truly comply with the original concept of ride-sharing, steps should be undertaken to remove any inducements to drive full time. Clearly, Uber will not engage in such steps because its success is dependent on a permanent "baseload" workforce.


----------



## SydneyUber Chick (Feb 12, 2017)

χ²(1) said:


> The existence and sanctioning of car leasing providers by Uber, suggests otherwise. Earning enough fares to pay back a car lease can only be accomplished driving full time.
> 
> To truly comply with the original concept of ride-sharing, steps should be undertaken to remove any inducements to drive full time. Clearly, Uber will not engage in such steps because its success is dependent on a permanent "baseload" workforce.


Plenty of people lease cars without using them for ride sharing. The provision of lease cars does not mean its being set up as a full time job.


----------



## χ²(1) (Jun 1, 2016)

SydneyUber Chick said:


> Plenty of people lease cars without using them for ride sharing. The provision of lease cars does not mean its being set up as a full time job.


If you read more carefully, that is not what I mean. I'm not talking about lease cars in general. I'm talking about lease cars _specifically for the sole purpose_ of Uber.


----------



## SydneyUber Chick (Feb 12, 2017)

χ²(1) said:


> If you read more carefully, that is not what I mean. I'm not talking about lease cars in general. I'm talking about lease cars _specifically for the sole purpose_ of Uber.


I'm interested in where these "cars specifically for the sole purpose of Uber" are being advertised. Are you trying to tell me people who lease these vehicles are not permitted to use them for personal usage at all? I'd always figured they were normal lease cars that were also permitted to be used for uber as opposed to for the sole purpose


----------



## Geedee (Oct 22, 2016)

I like the idea of payment for extra travel to do pickups. Where i am.i often see 10min + pings and let them go because they might want to go 5 min up the road to the pub. If they could make it so you knew you would get a longer trip than the time to pick up I might accept some. Also be good to have Uber XL. I have a 7 seater and happy to use it if they compensate me.


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

Geedee said:


> I like the idea of payment for extra travel to do pickups. Where i am.i often see 10min + pings and let them go because they might want to go 5 min up the road to the pub. If they could make it so you knew you would get a longer trip than the time to pick up I might accept some. Also be good to have Uber XL. I have a 7 seater and happy to use it if they compensate me.


It will be part of the 'upfront rider pricing' model.


----------



## Bandy (Jul 26, 2016)

putty in oobers hands.


----------



## SolsUber101 (Jan 28, 2016)

Paul Collins said:


> It will be part of the 'upfront rider pricing' model.


So please tell me Paul how Uber will deal with the GST issue on Upfront Fares.


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

SolsUber101 said:


> So please tell me Paul how Uber will deal with the GST issue on Upfront Fares.


Same way they do now I would expect. It is upfront pricing. Riders will not see or agree to the surge factor, they will see and agree to a price.


----------



## Jack Malarkey (Jan 11, 2016)

Paul Collins said:


> Same way they do now I would expect. It is upfront pricing. Riders will not see or agree to the surge factor, they will see and agree to a price.


That would work for Australian GST formally imposed on the driver only if the gross fare is the same for the driver as it is for the passenger.

In the United States, upfront pricing has resulted in the practice at times of different fares for the passenger and driver (before application of commission).

The current arrangements in Australia are not true upfront pricing. The passenger currently receives only a fare estimate expressed as a range.


----------



## Jack Malarkey (Jan 11, 2016)

As a passenger, I think Uber needs to be upfront about its upfront pricing (whether fixed or just an estimate).

If there is surge pricing, the passenger should be advised of the surge factor as well as the total fare. That's only fair.

Of course, the base rates themselves need to be reasonable.


----------



## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Jack Malarkey said:


> That would work for Australian GST formally imposed on the driver only if the gross fare is the same for the driver as it is for the passenger.
> 
> In the United States, upfront pricing has resulted in the practice at times of different fares for the passenger and driver (before application of commission).
> 
> The current arrangements in Australia are not true upfront pricing. The passenger currently receives only a fare estimate expressed as a range.


That's the big issue with Upfront Pricing as practiced in the US. Uber locks the customer into a specific agreed upon price, yet still pays the driver on a piece rate basis and pockets the difference. Uber lies to the driver about what the customer actually paid! And that is what would cause serious problems in Australia because a driver's GST liability is calculated based upon what the customer _actually_ paid. So lying to drivers leads to the incorrect amount of GST being paid.


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

UberDriverAU said:


> That's the big issue with Upfront Pricing as practiced in the US. Uber locks the customer into a specific agreed upon price, yet still pays the driver on a piece rate basis and pockets the difference. Uber lies to the driver about what the customer actually paid! And that is what would cause serious problems in Australia because a driver's GST liability is calculated based upon what the customer _actually_ paid. So lying to drivers leads to the incorrect amount of GST being paid.


Good point, but why would uber just not pay the 70 to 75% of the quoted upfront price? It makes it difficult for changes in destinations etc I suppose. Mmm, I will email uber about this. Interesting issue re GST.


----------



## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Paul Collins said:


> Good point, but why would uber just not pay the 70 to 75% of the quoted upfront price? It makes it difficult for changes in destinations etc I suppose. Mmm, I will email uber about this. Interesting issue re GST.


It's all about $$$. The more I think about it Paul, the more I believe that the GST case was actually about their Upfront Pricing plans. Or it was at least a factor. In essence they want to charge customers surge rates where possible, but pay drivers standard rates. More money for them if they can lie to drivers about what the customer paid, and every driver having to pay GST makes it impossible to lie about such things without also committing tax fraud.


----------



## Paul Collins (Dec 12, 2016)

UberDriverAU said:


> It's all about $$$. The more I think about it Paul, the more I believe that the GST case was actually about their Upfront Pricing plans. Or it was at least a factor. In essence they want to charge customers surge rates where possible, but pay drivers standard rates. More money for them if they can lie to drivers about what the customer paid, and every driver having to pay GST makes it impossible to lie about such things without also committing tax fraud.


Not so sure it is about surge or intentionally ripping drivers off as a driver get still is paid on the actual time and distance, so selecting the least efficient route would mean gaming the system. Having said that the point about the GST is very real indeed as we as driver must know the actual charge as we are paying the actual GST. A big problem if uber do not report what they actually charged the rider and in some cases, they may have charged more or less than the drivers normal rates. Yep, a problem....


----------

