# Email to Uber drivers from Dara



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

In case you don't drive Uber or missed the email...

*California court ruling could limit your ability to access Uber*

Tron,

You're hearing from me for the second day in a row because this is so important. Yesterday, we learned the State of California was successful in getting a court order that could limit your flexibility as a driver and potentially cut off your ability to earn money through the Uber app.

Nothing will happen for at least 9 days as we challenge the ruling. So for now, you can continue to use Uber as you usually do. We'll let you know what happens next, so you can plan for any potential impact to your earnings.

We know this could not have come at a worse time for you and your families, as we find ourselves in the middle of a pandemic and economic crisis. With almost 3 million Californians out of a job, our leaders should be focused on creating work opportunities, not creating more uncertainty.

As I said yesterday, rather than lawsuits, we believe there is a better way to work-one that offers flexibility when you want it and more support when you need it. That's what we're proposing for all California drivers in Proposition 22. Prop 22 would give you new benefits and an earnings guarantee, while preserving the flexibility you value as an independent contractor. Today, we cannot offer this to you without a change to outdated laws.

We will continue to advocate for you and will do everything we can to protect your access to Uber and apps like ours. *But we won't be successful without your help. And it starts with Voting Yes on Prop 22*.

To learn more about the ruling and Prop 22, RSVP to the Yes on Prop 22 telephone town hall below.

Thank you,

*Dara Khosrowshahi*
Chief Executive Officer


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

tick, tock, tick tock.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Speculation: If Uber/Lyft doesn't find a way out of this ruling within 10 days, it is not out of the question that Uber or Lyft may pull out of California.

They may have no choice if a judge starts fining them a bazillion dollars a day if they have non-employees picking up riders.

Not a prediction. But this is in the realm of possibilities.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

_Tron_ said:


> In case you don't drive Uber or missed the email...
> 
> *California court ruling could limit your ability to access Uber*
> 
> ...


To hell with Dara you got wat you deserve I made hundreds of complain from NYC to stop treat me like employee and stop taking so much interest from my work now your dreams become true drivers will be employers if you had tret them like one ..US government not stupid to let them to transfer all the money into bank of Japan and you millions $ year salary


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## Don'tchasethesurge (Dec 27, 2016)

Uber and lyft dug their own graves... whether they survive this who knows? Things didn’t need to get to this point


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

_Tron_ said:


> Speculation: If Uber/Lyft doesn't find a way out of this ruling within 10 days, it is not out of the question that Uber or Lyft may pull out of California.


very possible. Uber can't make > 100k drivers employees overnight. And, pay attn everyone, not every current driver would be 'selected' to become an employee. Ooops for those who have dreams of being an employee. Double ooops.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

_Tron_ said:


> In case you don't drive Uber or missed the email...
> 
> *California court ruling could limit your ability to access Uber*
> 
> ...


"As I said yesterday, rather than lawsuits, we believe there is a better way to work-one that offers flexibility when you want it and more support when you need it, _*and pay our fair share of taxes."*_

FIXED THAT FOR HIM.

Funny how all of a sudden Uber is against lawsuits.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

SHalester said:


> very possible. Uber can't make > 100k drivers employees overnight. And, pay attn everyone, not every current driver would be 'selected' to become an employee. Ooops for those who have dreams of being an employee. Double ooops.


They give them allot of time to correct their self Uber Lyft was supposed to reduced their interest rate and stop treating driver as employee with all their notification ..those notification what tell drivers to do are employment rules . contractors are taking all responsibility ..


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> Speculation: If Uber/Lyft doesn't find a way out of this ruling within 10 days, it is not out of the question that Uber or Lyft may pull out of California.
> 
> They may have no choice if a judge starts fining them a bazillion dollars a day if they have non-employees picking up riders.
> 
> Not a prediction. But this is in the realm of possibilities.


They raise the pax rates and the total number of rides go down.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

mbd said:


> They raise the pax rates and the total number of rides go down.


The big problem in this industry it is because they take too much interest from drivers fare


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

20%+ of Uber bookings comes from SF, LA and NYC. They don’t have to raise any other places , just two states .


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

mbd said:


> 20%+ of Uber bookings comes from SF, LA and NYC. They don't have to raise any other places , just two states .


Then they can go out of our market if are so greedy


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

It's funny because it reminds of that old joke when a company is losing money on each widget they produce, but they _make it up on volume_.

Uber seems to be losing more money the more rides they give. Or not. I go back to my basic thesis, which is; how can a 100% automated service like this lose money? Forget Uber for a second because they are investing in anything and everything that moves in order to dominate transportation world-wide (One TNC to rule them all). But how does Lyft manage to lose money? Especially at the confiscatory rate they extract from each fare. I would love to know why the following strategy would not work...

1) Set up a rideshare only business entity.
2) Charge the rate cabbies charge. The convenience alone should still edge out the taxis.
3) Take 10% (finders fee) from each ride.
4) Take an additional amount to cover the insurance the TNC is providing.
5) The drivers remain independent contractors (to keep the good stuff about the job intact) but U/L negotiates an independent contractors _bill of rights _to avoid accusations of exploitation. But frankly, other than a due process procedure for deactivating bad drivers, keeping ~90% of my fare I'm not worried too much about being exploited.

Now show me a line item balance sheet where you're losing money. If you are losing money fire management and start over because THEY, not the drivers, are the problem.


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

observer said:


> "As I said yesterday, rather than lawsuits, we believe there is a better way to work-one that offers flexibility when you want it and more support when you need it, _*and pay our fair share of taxes."*_
> 
> FIXED THAT FOR HIM.


False.

Most Uber drivers pay little to no taxes due to ridehail. You know this.

Uber's tax situation is not the drivers' affair.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

_Tron_ said:


> It's funny because it reminds of that old joke when a company is losing money on each widget they produce, but they _make it up on volume_.
> 
> Uber seems to be losing more money the more rides they give. Or not. I go back to my basic thesis, which is; how can a 100% automated service like this lose money? Forget Uber for a second because they are investing in anything and everything that moves in order to dominate transportation world-wide (One TNC to rule them all). But how does Lyft manage to lose money? Especially at the confiscatory rate they extract from each fare. I would love to know why the following strategy would not work...
> 
> ...


What's wrong with you &#128512; they lose money because they have to high salary and not enough to keep bribery leaders all around the world


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

Where in the court order does it say that driver flexibility needs to be limited? I must have passed over that one.


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Illini said:


> Where in the court order does it say that driver flexibility needs to be limited? I must have passed over that one.


What gives you faith uber wouldn't, if drivers were W2?

What do you suppose would happen if drivers pay was the same regardless of driver performance?

What to you suppose would happen if per driver pay is fixed when the driver/pax ratio is too high?


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

doyousensehumor said:


> False.
> 
> Most Uber drivers pay little to no taxes due to ridehail. You know this.
> 
> Uber's tax situation is not the drivers' affair.


Uber are taking 8.6% from my fare at every trip why are not my affairs if I pay tax over the tax



doyousensehumor said:


> What gives you faith uber wouldn't, if drivers were W2?
> 
> What do you suppose would happen if drivers pay was the same regardless of driver performance?
> 
> What to you suppose would happen if per driver pay is fixed when the driver/pax ratio is too high?


Then you will not see any drivers to invest in quality vehicle then the business collapse instantly for now Uber are harboring in this drivers with quality vehicle and pax enjoy them


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Gby said:


> Uber are taking 8.6% from my fare at every trip why are not my affairs if I pay tax over the tax


Is that a special tax just for Califonian's? If so, blame your goverment, not uber.

How else are they going to going to pay for welfare when uber lays off the employee drivers?


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

doyousensehumor said:


> Is that a special tax just for Califonian's? If so, blame your goverment, not uber.
> 
> How else are they going to going to pay for welfare when uber lays off the employee drivers?


This kind of jobs it was before Uber come and always will because this workers will split in many small independent dispatch . They just put together this electric dispach convenient for consumer to get their transportation as fast they can ..many times at the drivers expenses .


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Gby said:


> Then you will not see any drivers to invest in quality vehicle then the business collapse instantly for now Uber are harboring in this drivers with quality vehicle and pax enjoy them


In a free market, when busnesses (like independent contractors) make BAD investments, they have to accept the consequences, good or bad. .....Unless you are in California, where drivers want a Participation Trophy. Did Uber force them to buy the most expensive equipment possible?

NonEmployees are given a choice, 
Make a bad one,
Run their business poorly,
Pretend they have a boss,
Continue to turn on the App.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

doyousensehumor said:


> In a free market, when busnesses (like independent contractors) make BAD investments, they have to accept the consequences, good or bad. .....Unless you are in California, where drivers want a Participation Trophy. Did Uber force them to buy the most expensive equipment possible?
> 
> NonEmployees are given a choice,
> Make a bad one,
> ...


Free market are not really free .all business are controlled and regulated by government . So government any time can interfere in predator corporation like this. because the labour market are not belong to Uber &Lyft .. we are talking about United State transportation industry not little gypsy car base .. are millions of worker under same management now ..


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

doyousensehumor said:


> False.
> 
> Most Uber drivers pay little to no taxes due to ridehail. You know this.
> 
> Uber's tax situation is not the drivers' affair.


I meant Uber would pay their share of taxes.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

What to you suppose would happen if per driver pay is fixed when the driver/pax ratio is too high?
[/QUOTE]

Super Good Question!

May I?

What happens when the driver/pax ratio is too high?

You tell me what happens as IC's when there is one order per hour in a town and 10 drivers and Uber is still onboarding the 11th and 12th driver?

What happens?

Then there is 9 people not making money because there is not enough orders right?

So what's the difference, if there is enough orders for 1 or 2 drivers then that's it. Whatever the worker status, then the other extra workers will not be needed.

So efficiency will dictate how many drivers are needed per area and time.

Probably people working 5 hours a week, like people only using DF to and from work will not be needed.

New drivers will not be onboarded. So what?

People working 20/50 hours will still be needed to satisfy demand.

Real looser is the company value. 30% increase in labor cost means total Value will be not 60 Billion but at best 20/30 Billion. Not gonna see me &#128546; cry!

Prices will go up 25% and that allows competing private self owner &#128662; taxi's to compete.

( licensed, finger printed, Sheriff approved, regulated TNC operators)

Example below! I work as one of them btw!

*Marin North Bay Cooperative Taxi*
Marin County Permit No. 102










Driver Owned Since 2001

Local and Experienced
Marin County
Drivers

They are actual Self employed, have their flexibility, and charge mandated, regulated fees.

It couldn't be a bigger blessing on Mom and Pop, private &#128661; operators.

Brave New World!


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## B - uberlyftdriver (Jun 6, 2017)

Dear Dara

**** YOU !!!


resolved


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

B - uberlyftdriver said:


> Dear Dara
> 
> @@@@ YOU !!!
> 
> resolved


They screwed up by being to greedy and went to far by stuck billions over billions after taxi industry


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## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)




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## Don'tchasethesurge (Dec 27, 2016)

Would Travis gone the same path as Dara? At least Travis was straightforward when Dara pretends to be driver friend


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> You're hearing from me for the second day in a row because this is so important.


That's strange - I didn't hear from Dara yesterday. What did he have to say for himself then?

Anyway, you always know when Uber's feeling desperate when they come, cap in hand, to the drivers asking for help.



SHalester said:


> very possible. Uber can't make > 100k drivers employees overnight. And, pay attn everyone, not every current driver would be 'selected' to become an employee. Ooops for those who have dreams of being an employee. Double ooops.


Uber will already have made contingency plans for this. They will have the IT systems required to account for and pay employee drivers in place and ready to be powered up and they'll have those W-4 ready to be mailed out.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Don'tchasethesurge said:


> Would Travis gone the same path as Dara? At least Travis was straightforward when Dara pretends to be driver friend


Dara is terrorist , nice in the face and stuck you in the back ..


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

_Tron_ said:


> it is not out of the question that Uber or Lyft may pull out of California.


Uber/Lyft will not pull out of California. The economy of California, alone, is larger than that of most nations. The market is simply too large to give up to some TNC that will comply with the law. It is a similar reason that Uber/Lyft suffer all of that regulation in New York City. That market is simply too large to surrender to something else.

If California insists on this, it will simply limit the log ON.



Don'tchasethesurge said:


> Uber and lyft dug their own graves... *.........* Things didn't need to get to this point


They did bring this on themselves. Had they paid the drivers properly, there would not have been even ten-per-cent of the agitation for this that there is now. Both of these companies could solve eighty-five per-cent of their problems simply by paying the drivers properly.



mbd said:


> They raise the pax rates and the total number of rides go down.


............perhaps in your market...................in mine, the drop will be negligible.



Gby said:


> Then they can go out of our market if are so greedy


Both of them caterwauled when New York decided to regulate them. They did not leave, though. New York is too big a market for Uber/Lyft to give up to some TNC that will play ball with the New York Authorities.



_Tron_ said:


> 2) Charge the rate cabbies charge. The convenience alone should still edge out the taxis.


In my market, Uber offers taxis. If Uber were to do this, they could charge more than cab rates and people would _still_ use the service. What people here would do is to try Uber Taxi, first. If they could not get a cab, they would go to UberX. I do something similar. In my neighbourhood, it is hard to get a cab. I will try Uber Taxi or Curb, first. If that fails, I then go to UberX. If I am downtown, I can hail a cab. If I am coming out of a baseball game, the surge/Prime Time is at 2,3, minimum, which is more than a cab. I go with Uber Taxi or Curb and get one immediately.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> They will have the IT systems required to account for and pay employee drivers


that is an assumption. But back to my stmt no way Uber can go live with employees 'over night'. No W4, no ability to go online. Plus, not all drivers will be able to 'convert'. 
And let's not forget all the 'other' changes that will be made. The changes not discussed here very often. More than a few believe they will suddenly get a raise, benefits and no other changes will occur. Dreamers of drivers never an employee.......

As I've said before: won't be all honey and rainbows being converted to an employee.


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## Cereal Killer (Aug 10, 2020)

Illini said:


> Where in the court order does it say that driver flexibility needs to be limited? I must have passed over that one.


What do you think would happen if 100K drivers had the ability to attain full-time benefits? To collect overtime pay? You'd have 100k drivers working as many hours as possible to hit those marks. Uber would need a year to upgrade their platform just to pay everyone correctly. To stop drivers from working too many hours. Uber would need to lock drivers out. Passengers wait times would sky rocket. Passenger trip cost would sky rocket. There would then be less trips to go around. Then Uber would also have to worry about Labor Unions. There's no way in hell Uber/Lyft would stay in California. If anything they'd start 20 new ride share companies and get away with murder for another 10 years.

Uber/ Lyft pull out of California! New companies GRUBER, GRYFT, BLUBER, YFT start popping up a month later. Uber always wins people.


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

Your name is Tron?

Wow.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

uber could have started back 9/19/19.

then if they weren’t done they could have filed an extension to finish up in the end or December, or filed a court thingy to give them more time.

this law was passed almost a YEAR AGO. And they had 3 full months to get it going for January first.

And if they were still trying to get the kinks out in January as long as they were putting in an honest effort,

Look at it like this, if I was still getting around to doing chrismas shopping for 2019 in August 2020, id be a TAD BIT LATE. Don’t you think?

This was something they were by the letter of the law supposed to be doing on NYE.

They knew this was coming they were just hell bent on delaying it until November.

im praying Californians wake up and vote no on principal over the unemployment thing alone.

It’s really not fair for the rest of businesses.

I say fine the snot out of Uber and lyft.

they have this coming, then when they get a 500 million dollar fine that knocks months off their capital they can get voted out by their shareholders for incompetence like they should be.

the whole damn board should go and the officers should be held responsible for these fines, it’s not like they didn’t get a 11 month warning they were coming.

Frankly for tax reasons alone they shouldn’t be allowed to do this.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Cereal Killer said:


> What do you think would happen if 100K drivers had the ability to attain full-time benefits? To collect overtime pay? You'd have 100k drivers working as many hours as possible to hit those marks. Uber would need a year to upgrade their platform just to pay everyone correctly. To stop drivers from working too many hours. Uber would need to lock drivers out. Passengers wait times would sky rocket. Passenger trip cost would sky rocket. There would then be less trips to go around. Then Uber would also have to worry about Labor Unions. There's no way in hell Uber/Lyft would stay in California. If anything they'd start 20 new ride share companies and get away with murder for another 10 years.
> 
> Uber/ Lyft pull out of California! New companies GRUBER, GRYFT, BLUBER, YFT start popping up a month later. Uber always wins people.


NY are the most corrupt leaders in the nation that's why it work well with lookout . Then riders ready to strike Uber hard but it bring more destruction ..


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

The problem Dara is running into is that Uber has treated drivers like crap for so long that he and the entire company lost almost all credibility in the driver's eyes. We're just so used to being told something will help us when it really hurts us. It's been years of this. Uber thought self driving cars would be here in 2017 so they started treating us like crap. Then they found that, no, they are going to need us for another 3-5 years at least.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

touberornottouber said:


> The problem Dara is running into is that Uber has treated drivers like crap for so long that he and the entire company lost almost all credibility in the driver's eyes. We're just so used to being told something will help us when it really hurts us. It's been years of this. Uber thought self driving cars would be here in 2017 so they started treating us like crap. Then they found that, no, they are going to need us for another 3-5 years at least.


No self car will be soon it is just illusion to mislead investors Uber are scam company at large level they know how to get their high salary by screw up every body


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## Saquan (Oct 15, 2018)

uber will keep drivers and deactivate ones my guess.

those acceptance rate and cancel fee numbers might play a role now for you fornia drivers

im in newyork, the hell with this surge and easy money since corona, loving life


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

SHalester said:


> that is an assumption. But back to my stmt no way Uber can go live with employees 'over night'. No W4, no ability to go online. Plus, not all drivers will be able to 'convert'.
> And let's not forget all the 'other' changes that will be made. The changes not discussed here very often. More than a few believe they will suddenly get a raise, benefits and no other changes will occur. Dreamers of drivers never an employee.......
> 
> As I've said before: won't be all honey and rainbows being converted to an employee.


Of course Uber can't send out the W4s, get them back, enter the data and restart with employee drivers overnight. You don't get points for stating the obvious, lol.

Uber has publicly acknowledged that having to take on drivers as employees is a possibility. They will have made preparations for this eventuality.


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

this is awful 80% of part time drivers wont be able to drive. The remaining will be given shifts, you must work 30 hours a week, pick up every 4.1 pool, no dest filter, maintain near 100 acceptance and 0 cancellation, wont be able to see dest, cant deduct miles so you'll lose your healthcare and pay higher taxes, all for what a min wage that you were making more than anyway? (esp in SF) 

They should leave CA now and wait for the ballot and once people see how hard life is being stranded in the middle of nowhere they will vote yes on 22. Ca has legit gone mad, they are terrorizing people, tutors, clowns , musicians, cartoonists, drivers, translators have all lost their jobs due to the terrorism of the democratic party and ab5. All restaurants and barbers , malls, downtowns have been closed, unless you riot, beat and loot you're not allowed to earn a living or leave the house.


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Yes for 22  
I do need an opportunity to drive the next month for full time and after that as a part time(maybe, maybe not). Those dems wanna screw it...


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

dnlbaboof said:


> this is awful 80% of part time drivers wont be able to drive. The remaining will be given shifts, you must work 30 hours a week, pick up every 4.1 pool, no dest filter, maintain near 100 acceptance and 0 cancellation, wont be able to see dest, cant deduct miles so you'll lose your healthcare and pay higher taxes, all for what a min wage that you were making more than anyway? (esp in SF)
> 
> They should leave CA now and wait for the ballot and once people see how hard life is being stranded in the middle of nowhere they will vote yes on 22. Ca has legit gone mad, they are terrorizing people, tutors, clowns , musicians, cartoonists, drivers, translators have all lost their jobs due to the terrorism of the democratic party and ab5. All restaurants and barbers , malls, downtowns have been closed, unless you riot, beat and loot you're not allowed to earn a living or leave the house.


&#128512;&#128512;&#128512;Drivers will disappear like the wind no one will come tho shift with Uber earning ...they did that in NY WITH lookout then my cancellation rate went up 40% and decline to 65% because I didn't play their game .. are many other base in the City ...Uber are trans of management they oversaturated with drivers because are to greedy ...then could not feed all of them and use them only when they needed for high demand ..What easy come easy go


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

Dara the Dipshit said:


> We know this could not have come at a worse time for *you and your families*, as we find ourselves in the middle of a pandemic and economic crisis.


Families?! How many families does he think an Über driver can support on Dara Dollars?

.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Who is John Galt? said:


> Families?! How many families does he think an Über driver can support on Dara Dollars?
> 
> .


 no one with Uber earning hardly to support the driver it's self in NYC


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> What to you suppose would happen if per driver pay is fixed when the driver/pax ratio is too high?
> 
> Super Good Question!
> 
> ...


A very muddled analysis.


> So efficiency will dictate how many drivers are needed per area and time


No, demand is the primary factor in dictating how many drivers are needed, not efficiency. The more pax demand rides, the more drivers are required and vice-versa.

Efficiency is simply the ratio of output to input. Driver efficiency (choosing the fastest route, not getting lost) is a factor in the number of drivers required to meet a given demand, however it is nowhere near as important as the amount of demand.


> Probably people working 5 hours a week, like people only using DF to and from work will not be needed.


Destination filter will not be a feature of the employee driver's app. It is offered now by Uber in order to tempt IC drivers to accept rides in periods of time when drivers are willing to accept rides in the direction they want to go, but are not willing to accept other rides.

One of the benefits of having employees is that they can be told what to do. Uber will require drivers who are on the clock to take the rides they are given. There will be no offering of a ride to drivers to see if it suits them and if it's going their way. Drivers will either be on-shift and working, or not. As far as whether or not part time drivers will be required, we do not know how Uber will structure its shift allocation. Maybe they will offer blocks of work like Amazon does, which are open to both part time and full time drivers.


> New drivers will not be onboarded. So what?


Uber will always be a revolving door for drivers. Drivers leave the company and new ones come in to replace them. New drivers will be required as long as Uber exists.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

The Gift of Fish said:


> A very muddled analysis.
> No, demand is the primary factor in dictating how many drivers are needed, not efficiency. The more pax demand rides, the more drivers are required and vice-versa.
> 
> Efficiency is simply the ratio of output to input. Driver efficiency (choosing the fastest route, not getting lost) is a factor in the number of drivers required to meet a given demand, however it is nowhere near as important as the amount of demand.
> ...


No body will work for Uber if not making money .look drivers now give up in NYC in mass many out their plate in storage


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

His email should say: Keep hanging on Uber driver suckers.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Gby said:


> No body will work for Uber if not making money .look drivers now give up in NYC in mass many out their plate in storage


Uber may indeed become a non-viable income source for many.

Amazon's shift allocation system in which you have to be constantly tapping the "Update" button on its app just to be able to get a shift made it a waste of time for me. I'm not going to sit for hours tapping a cellphone screen.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California if it's forced to classify drivers as employees


If the appeal doesn't work out for Uber, it will be banking on voters to determine its fate in voting on Proposition 22 in November.




www.cnbc.com


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California if it's forced to classify drivers as employees
> 
> 
> If the appeal doesn't work out for Uber, it will be banking on voters to determine its fate in voting on Proposition 22 in November.
> ...


This is probably a bluff. If Uber were to shut down in California, they would be handing all of their business in the state to Lyft, on a silver platter.


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

_Tron_ said:


> Uber CEO says its service will probably shut down temporarily in California if it's forced to classify drivers as employees
> 
> 
> If the appeal doesn't work out for Uber, it will be banking on voters to determine its fate in voting on Proposition 22 in November.
> ...


This is going to hurt so many drivers. Unemployment all time high pua over......they are trying to starve people to death......and drivers in ca make more than min wage. Easily make 25hr in ca........worst time to do this


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> You don't get points for stating the obvious, lol.


hahahaha obvious to how many who don't have any experience with onboarding new employees? Sorry, I claim the points. How many even mention 'logistics' of converting > 100k to employees? None. Well, me.

It's wild speculation U/L and whomever have done anything concrete to accept the possible reality.....many meetings, no doubt. But no work done....yet...

points and badge grabbed back.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

SHalester said:


> hahahaha obvious to how many who don't have any experience with onboarding new employees? Sorry, I claim the points. How many even mention 'logistics' of converting > 100k to employees? None. Well, me.
> 
> It's wild speculation U/L and whomever have done anything concrete to accept the possible reality.....many meetings, no doubt. But no work done....yet...
> 
> points and badge grabbed back.


Obvious to anyone. No points, no grab back. Sorry.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Obvious to anyone.


To you. Anyone? If that is anyone here, well epic fail. A bunch here believe being an employee will be all honey and rainbows and can happen on day #1.

Appeal won: double points and dozen badges awarded.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

dnlbaboof said:


> This is going to hurt so many drivers. Unemployment all time high pua over......they are trying to starve people to death......and drivers in ca make more than min wage. Easily make 25hr in ca........worst time to do this


In order to correct this corporation some people It has to get hurt . otherwise all corporation follow them then .42 million Americans now doesn't have money to put food on their table other millions of people could not pay their rent ..do you know why because this company are taking everything by different methods those executive have millions $ salary


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

SHalester said:


> To you. Anyone? If that is anyone here, well epic fail. A bunch here believe being an employee will be all honey and rainbows and can happen on day #1.
> 
> Appeal won: double points and dozen badges awarded.


No, I have given my final decision on the matter. You have no more appeals remaining.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> You have no more appeals remaining.


well, then I take it to the supreme court, they are really good at overturning silly lower court rulings. :wink:


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

Gby said:


> In order to correct this corporation some people It has to get hurt . otherwise all corporation follow them then .42 million Americans now doesn't have money to put food on their table other millions of people could not pay their rent ..do you know why because this company are taking everything by different methods those executive have millions $ salary


Record unemployment is because of fascist nutcases like cuomo and newsome whove lock downed the states and made uber lose most all their ridership, uber has provided millions of jobs to people, many of whom have had faced difficult times. Do I think the rate per mile needs to go up? yes esp in cities where its very low, but killing millions of independent jobs with ab5 isn't the answer, 2 wrongs don't make a right.


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## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

Haha now they’ll try to limit everyone’s access so drivers start complaining and they go like, “See! Drivers want to be independent!”. **** Uber and **** Lyft too.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Tony73 said:


> Haha now they'll try to limit everyone's access so drivers start complaining and they go like, "See! Drivers want to be independent!". @@@@ Uber and @@@@ Lyft too.


Nothing will change California legislators because had give to many times chance to change their business model .and Uber took them by stupid .


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

A lot of drivers here are ignoring the long term gain and only focussing on the short term pain. If AB5 means the end of Uberlyft in California then we should be celebrating. Rideshare as a concept won't die - once Uberlyft has been swept away then the way will be clear for the rideshare 2.0 companies to emerge. When Uberlyft threw a tantrum and left Austin, how long did it take for replacement companies to start operations? A month? These new companies will know that they will have to pay their drivers fairly as employees and give benefits. In San Francisco that would be minimum wage of $15 plus mileage. In an 8 hour shift I average 200 miles. At an IRS mileage rate of 50 cents that's $100 from Uber in mileage, plus 8 x $15 = $120 in wages; that's $220 per 8 hour shift. Plus benefits. Plus you still get to deduct all those miles on your taxes. That sounds like a good deal to me.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> A very muddled analysis.
> No, demand is the primary factor in dictating how many drivers are needed, not efficiency.


I did speak on Supply/demand ratio.
Of course the demand is the dictating factor.

Efficiency I am defining by the Occupancy rate. ( NY has implemented occupancy rates to limit amount of driver on the road at a given time)

Efficiency means using the drivers time to its fullest potential. Having unlimited cars driving around, causing traffic congestion, pollution, etc is not efficient ( especially if minimum wage and mileage expense applies).

If the Occupancy rate is dropping below 66%, then whatever the worker status, it is not efficient to log on or onboard more drivers.

Efficiency means using the available driver to its full potential. If there is enough demand for 2 drivers in a small town, no need to log on or onboard a fleet to park at every corner of a small town waiting 30/45 minutes for a ping. That is the efficiency I am referring to in respect to demand.



The Gift of Fish said:


> Destination filter will not be a feature of the employee driver's app.


Exactly. I'm sorry that some members using the app 5 hours a week mostly on DF will not be needed in an employee model. Of course there is advantage and disadvantages. This will affect some, again I'm sorry!



The Gift of Fish said:


> Uber will always be a revolving door for drivers. Drivers leave the company and new ones come in to replace them. New drivers will be required as long as Uber exists.


Right now many drivers are afraid of layoffs. Like you said "Its The Demand stupid".
I was referring to concerned drivers that feel driver supply is to high for the demand under employee model.
So the obvious first step is to stop onboarding additional drivers if the demand is obviously not there.
As things balance out, drivers leave, then of course new drivers will onboard "In Proportion" just Like Burger King, Costco, etc.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Tony73 said:


> Haha now they'll try to limit everyone's access so drivers start complaining and they go like, "See! Drivers want to be independent!". @@@@ Uber and @@@@ Lyft too.





I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> I did speak on Supply/demand ratio.
> Of course the demand is the dictating factor.
> 
> Efficiency I am defining by the Occupancy rate. ( NY has implemented occupancy rates to limit amount of driver on the road at a given time)
> ...


The demand in NYC are unpredictable if Uber keep only small number of driver their business collapse because NEW Yorkers dont ike to wait to long for car .they jump in the yellow cab . Or the one who ride on stile will go back to Blac car base ..


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

Maybe boober should move it's headquarters out of the US. Mexico is close by.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Uberdriver2710 said:


> Maybe boober should move it's headquarters out of the US. Mexico is close by.


JULYER! You told me you love me but julyer!


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Uberdriver2710 said:


> Maybe boober should move it's headquarters out of the US. Mexico is close by.


And In US not going to let them to take more then 3%from total fare then adios fuber in US


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Gby said:


> The demand in NYC are unpredictable
> NEW Yorkers dont ike to wait to long for car .they jump in the yellow cab .


I'm in SF market. Same here. They cancel when a driver is more than 3 minutes away, saying your too far.
Entitled and Karen like.

We broke the back of Taxi medallion families rolling with the ride share Cartel. We hurt many people's livelihood.

Now they coming for payback!

Like I said. This is a blessing to independent operators.

They will eat ride share alive in many territories.

We lived by the sword, now we shall die by the sword.
( or get a taxi license )

Brave New World!


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> I'm in SF market. Same here. They cancel when a driver is more than 3 minutes away, saying your too far.
> Entitled and Karen like.
> 
> We broke the back of Taxi medallion families rolling with the ride share Cartel. We hurt many people's livelihood.
> ...


All NYC Uber drives have taxi black car Limousine licence .. to drive Uber we pay big tribute to NY City mafia&#128512;


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

This goes to the creative writing team&#128517;&#128580;&#128541;&#128078;


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## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

I wish my name was Tron :biggrin:


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

SHalester said:


> very possible. Uber can't make > 100k drivers employees overnight. And, pay attn everyone, not every current driver would be 'selected' to become an employee. Ooops for those who have dreams of being an employee. Double ooops.


Looks like good news for you my friend. With your 4.99% rating you will be first to get picked. You will have plenty of rides to keep busy and less time to post in every thread. Win win for everyone.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Looks like good news for you my friend. With your 4.99% rating you will be first to get picked. You will have plenty of rides to keep busy and less time to post in every thread. Win win for everyone.
> Who wants to be Uber employee ?I'm not it is easy like good morning to get CDL license 1500$ and the opportunity of earning in trucking industry are God enough


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Looks like good news for you my friend. With your 4.99% rating you will be first to get picked. You will have plenty of rides to keep busy and less time to post in every thread. Win win for everyone.


so much wrong here, where do I start? &#129300; My rating as of 3/18 is 4.98. Even odds Uber will prioritize full time ants; had you been reading any posts you'd know that I'm very pt and share my hours between 2 RS gigs.
And, yup, the time I'd normally be 'online' during the week I now spend here. &#129335;‍♂

And for tone, balance and accuracy I have no desire to be an employee. Do better, friend.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> A lot of drivers here are ignoring the long term gain and only focussing on the short term pain. If AB5 means the end of Uberlyft in California then we should be celebrating. Rideshare as a concept won't die - once Uberlyft has been swept away then the way will be clear for the rideshare 2.0 companies to emerge. When Uberlyft threw a tantrum and left Austin, how long did it take for replacement companies to start operations? A month? These new companies will know that they will have to pay their drivers fairly as employees and give benefits. In San Francisco that would be minimum wage of $15 plus mileage. In an 8 hour shift I average 200 miles. At an IRS mileage rate of 50 cents that's $100 from Uber in mileage, plus 8 x $15 = $120 in wages; that's $220 per 8 hour shift. Plus benefits. Plus you still get to deduct all those miles on your taxes. That sounds like a good deal to me.


Very well said. Mileage reimbursement will most likely be for active rides only but it's still much more than many drivers get now. I agree short term pain will be more than worth it.

The biggest misconception is what Uber/Lyft was intended for. It was never meant to be a service for dirt cheap rides. It was suppose to be competition to the taxi cab business. A service that was quicker, affordable, more proficient, and newer cleaner vehicles. This idea to bankrupt the competition with dirt cheap rides at the expense of the driver and driver's vehicle was poorly thought out.

The demand for ride share will always be there. The rider needs us just as much as we need them. They must pay a competitive rate for the service or take a taxi for the same rate or higher. The freebies stop today.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)




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## Uberchampion (Oct 17, 2015)

I find this hilarious, if Uber just treated people fairly in the beginning this would not be an issue,

if they treated people fairly in the middle, this would not be an issue.

If they had treated people fairly after all of the horrible things they were doing to people made it to the Press , this would not be an issue.

They wait until they lose all of their court cases... Now it's an issue?

Uber made their bed and now it's time for them to lie down.

If Uber and Lyft leave, another company will step in and follow the rules and make it work. Rideshare is now in the Lexicon of everyone from the richest to the poorest. It killed the taxi industry it's hindered public transportation,... people will always need on your way to get around.

Let's not forget, they decided they wanted to leave Houston and 20 companies popped up overnight and took over the market



Uberchampion said:


> I find this hilarious, if Uber just treated people fairly in the beginning this would not be an issue,
> 
> if they treated people fairly in the middle, this would not be an issue.
> 
> ...


I just read what @The Gift of Fish wrote and he said it much better than I did


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Uberchampion said:


> I find this hilarious, if Uber just treated people fairly in the beginning this would not be an issue,
> 
> if they treated people fairly in the middle, this would not be an issue.
> 
> ...


Hmm it looks like you said Uber&Lyft dig their own grave .it is 100%true probably they don't even care because they had become filty rich ..who cares of their investors&#128512;&#128512;&#128512;. In NYC are hundreds of base ready to take over any second their app are always on and driver's already registered to few base


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## Uberchampion (Oct 17, 2015)

Gby said:


> Hmm it looks like you said Uber&Lyft dig their own grave .it is 100%true probably they don't even care because they had become filty rich ..who cares of their investors&#128512;&#128512;&#128512;. In NYC are hundreds of base ready to take over any second their app are always on and driver's already registered to few base


If Uber leaves, Lyft is there to take its place. If they aren't in a race to the bottom. One of them will make good. I hate both of them equally, but it would be easier to just take one

Neither of the two companies wants to raise rates and actually make any money for their shareholders and drivers. A hundred years from now we will find out that this was some drug cartels way of washing their money. That's the only thing that makes sense with their current business models


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## simont23 (Jul 24, 2019)

Do you have no shame whatsoever, Dara? You feed us a totally bullshit pack of lies, while grinning and winking over your shoulder to the other executives, directors and shareholders.


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

simont23 said:


> Do you have no shame whatsoever, Dara? You feed us a totally bullshit pack of lies, while grinning and winking over your shoulder to the other executives, directors and shareholders.


F....k Dara he is the biggest jerk of all time he ply the cards with tow face I hope the Federal will make protection workers against this predators company .. they went over all limits


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Dara and Uber are quiet happy to sack every driver they have on a whim🤔
Leaves them without a work force and zero percent of the available market 🤔
California seems very quiet doesn't it🤔
I'm just guessing but if I were Dara I'd be worried.
Uber hasn't done anything California didn't expect them to do🤔

Let's say Uber pulls the pin? 
I'm California the first thing I'd be doing is getting alternatives it to place. Next I'd make sure there's a cap on the number of vehicles allowed on the platform when Uber try and come back. Uber having no workforce can't argue a cap is going to cost jobs that don't exist? California can argue congestion/pollution etc. Can also argue the California can't allow itself to be bullied or have the public held to ransom by any company in the future. 

Might not be this but I suspect California has plans for Uber that they are just waiting to pull the trigger on. 🤔


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

_Tron_ said:


> In case you don't drive Uber or missed the email...
> 
> *California court ruling could limit your ability to access Uber*
> 
> ...


*Lower rates means more money!*


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

B - uberlyftdriver said:


> Dear Dara
> 
> @@@@ YOU !!!
> 
> resolved


Congratulations you mister Uber driver employer finally you rich your goal now will have health insurance retirement pay sich leave and pay vacation no more stocking n billion over billion after taxi industry


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## simont23 (Jul 24, 2019)

everythingsuber said:


> Dara and Uber are quiet happy to sack every driver they have on a whim&#129300;
> Leaves them without a work force and zero percent of the available market &#129300;
> California seems very quiet doesn't it&#129300;
> I'm just guessing but if I were Dara I'd be worried.
> ...


What you are saying is exactly what existed before Uber came along. Taxis have to be regulated, just like everyone else. Otherwise they misbehave, just like Dara, and Travis etc., etc.
I am unable to comprehend the complete refusal of people on this forum to understand the only reason Uber was set up. Not to drive people round. Everyone who wanted picked up was already being picked up by taxis. Not to provide better service. That has been proven, time and time again. Not to provide better safety. That has been shown in many court cases.
No. The only reason for the set up, and what a great setup it was, was to grossly enrich a few people at the expense of a lot of suckers. Drivers, shareholders, passengers, and financiers. Have I left anyone out?


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## Sonny06 (Sep 9, 2018)

This is what’s happened when your treating people that make a service as it is like S.... U/L get only what they deserved. Cut rate, surge cute, between 25-55% profit on rides etc.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

everythingsuber said:


> Might not be this but I suspect California has plans for Uber that they are just waiting to pull the trigger on


Threatening the legislators of any state is not a good idea at any point in time.

Uber and Lyft are hoping to get help (by claiming leadership in fighting AB5) from other gig economy companies that were not abusing their partners, the same companies that are suffering AB5 consequences exactly because of rideshare Uber and Lyft wrongdoing.

If Uber and Lyft stop operations on 21st, is not the sinking Titanic, is the Beirut explosion pulverizing rideshare and its stock value as we know it.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

_Tron_ said:


> Speculation: If Uber/Lyft doesn't find a way out of this ruling within 10 days, it is not out of the question that Uber or Lyft may pull out of California.
> 
> They may have no choice if a judge starts fining them a bazillion dollars a day if they have non-employees picking up riders.
> 
> Not a prediction. But this is in the realm of possibilities.














jocker12 said:


> Threatening the legislators of any state is not a good idea at any point in time.
> 
> Uber and Lyft are hoping to get help (by claiming leadership in fighting AB5) from other gig economy companies that were not abusing their partners, the same companies that are suffering AB5 consequences exactly because of rideshare Uber and Lyft wrongdoing.
> 
> ...


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> View attachment 498854
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Uber and Lyft are doomed, but the vacuum created by their stupidity that is affecting other people will be quickly filled by other opportunities. This is a step forward, not a step backward.

Anyway, if most of the drivers were part-timers, they already have another primary job or business to operate.

Do you remember the old say - "The King is dead? Long live the King!"

Uber needs to bring back Kalanick for a week to burn those few billions they have left in the bank, on one of his long Miami parties/orgies where Uber corporate people could fornicate the naive investors, and the naive investors could fornicate them back. It will be like a volcano with lava and ashes flowing and flying around... with a big bright pink Lyft mustache on top of it .... and Europe playing "The final countdown" through loudspeakers.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Plus you still get to deduct all those miles on your taxes.


I have to correct you on this one.

In the US, you don't get to deduct the miles as an employee. Plus, Uber doesn't have to pay drivers the IRS rate. They might decide that .25/mile is fair, and that's what we get until the next lawsuit forces change.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Mista T said:


> I have to correct you on this one.
> 
> In the US, you don't get to deduct the miles as an employee. Plus, Uber doesn't have to pay drivers the IRS rate. They might decide that .25/mile is fair, and that's what we get until the next lawsuit forces change.


The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act removed the mileage deduction for _unreimbursed_ miles driven by employees. Since California requires that employees are reimbursed for all business-related expenses, Uberlyft employees will be reimbursed for mileage and therefore can still deduct the miles on federal taxes as well as state.

Uberlyft could want a lower mileage reimbursement rate than the IRS rate, however CA law states that employees would have to agree to it. Many drivers would agree to it, though, or may not even read the contract of employment.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

'


Mista T said:


> I have to correct you on this one.
> 
> In the US, you don't get to deduct the miles as an employee. Plus, Uber doesn't have to pay drivers the IRS rate. They might decide that .25/mile is fair, and that's what we get until the next lawsuit forces change.


When that happens, can't you claim the remaining part of the mileage reimbursement on taxes?


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Daisey77 said:


> '
> 
> When that happens, can't you claim the remaining part of the mileage reimbursement on taxes?


That is a great question.

I've been driving pizza as an employee, and they are paying about 30 cents per mile. Guess when I do my taxes next year I'll look into it. Good heads up question!


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## gabesdaddee (Dec 4, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> That's strange - I didn't hear from Dara yesterday. What did he have to say for himself then?
> 
> Anyway, you always know when Uber's feeling desperate when they come, cap in hand, to the drivers asking for help.


Very true



The Gift of Fish said:


> The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act removed the mileage deduction for _unreimbursed_ miles driven by employees. Since California requires that employees are reimbursed for all business-related expenses, Uberlyft employees will be reimbursed for mileage and therefore can still deduct the miles on federal taxes as well as state.
> 
> Uberlyft could want a lower mileage reimbursement rate than the IRS rate, however CA law states that employees would have to agree to it. Many drivers would agree to it, though, or may not even read the contract of employment.


You are correct. As long as the company does not reimburse you for expenses, you are entitled to deduct it. That goes with any expense you incur to do business. For example, I purchased a standing desk to use at home for my full time job. Since I do over 80% of my work from home, I am able to expense this on my 2020 taxes.


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