# Uber is taking losses with the winter guarantees



## thedarkstar (Jan 1, 2015)

From my statement of last week

They collected 130 in their 20% fee but paid me $140 towards guarantees.

If this is prevalent, then they must be taking huge losses.

they must be paying us partly from google and other investor money


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## marketmark (Dec 2, 2014)

They do sometimes take losses to gain market share in both passengers and drivers.
I worked two different periods last year where they did this.
One was when their commission dropped to 5%. I assume they were losing money on each ride...
Another was when they gave customers 25% off rates and continued to pay drivers at the old rate. Even with the 20% commission they were still losing on each ride.

Enjoy it while it lasts!


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Uber collected $60 in their 20% from me.

They paid me $149 in guarantees, plus my 80% trip money.

They are taking a loss from my work, and I'm smiling about it.


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

thedarkstar said:


> From my statement of last week
> 
> They collected 130 in their 20% fee but paid me $140 towards guarantees.
> 
> ...


Well it appears you are one of the few who seemed to have gotten everything you were expecting. Congrats!


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## BlkGeep (Dec 7, 2014)

Uber has no costs, they never lose money knuckle heads. We absorb all the costs.


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

Uber did not take any loss... Remember the safe rides BS? Uber might have earned less in the meantime but never will they take a loss.
Besides they pay bonuses only to a relatively small % of drivers and will opt out of paying bonuses whenever it damn pleases them.
Mind your own bottom line and quit worrying about uber. They got their asses covered in spanky Benjamins while you and your X-mobile sweat your pants raising their market share.
The better question will be is the guarantee worth it to YOU? What happens to YOU when they pull the plug on their phoney guarantees?
In short do you don't do Uber.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Luberon said:


> Uber did not take any loss... Remember the safe rides BS? Uber might have earned less in the meantime but never will they take a loss.


Not true. Uber collected $60 in their 20% from me, and that was from 41 trips, so $60 + $41 = $101 that Uber collected from my work. They paid me $149 in guarantees, above and beyond my 80% trip money. That's a $48 loss for Uber.


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## marketmark (Dec 2, 2014)

BlkGeep said:


> Uber has no costs, they never lose money knuckle heads. We absorb all the costs.


Someone processes credit cards. Someone pays for all their office space and employees...
David Plouffe doesn't work for free.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

When uber started in my city in august, they started with uber black. To keep a car presence they had a join and support system where they would roster you on for a shift and pay you $33 an hour plus $10 per trip. On night on a 8 hour shift I had 2 rides totalling $40. Yet they paid me $2 $284 only on weekends did the fares exceed the join and support rates, they did for around 15 cars.

So yes they lose money to buy market share. Many of the early trips i took the riders were using promo codes and getting free rides.

Thats why they need so much funding


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

This might be very good news indeed, and I hope others who see more being paid out to make up the guaranteed rate than what Uber took in for commission also post here about it. It could be indicative of them finally hitting the wall as far as their rate-reduction strategy is concerned. They may have finally hit the point that is "one step too far", where they can't continue to stretch their BS theories about rate cuts meaning more earnings.


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## anOzzieUber (Oct 31, 2014)

Of course they are making losses and anyone that says otherwise needs to check their maths. Whether they are compensating losses with profits on other drivers we will never know unless they go public.

When Uber launched here, we got $10 per trip on top of the 80% for the fare. It then went to $5 then $3 and now it's nothing. I'd estimate my average fare is $14 so even up until the time we got $3 subsidy that Uber was loosing money.

Even now, I doubt they are making much here based on office leases and staff wages. 

I don't feel sorry for them if they are, it is how they've decided to build the business. If I was a large angel investor I wouldn't be throwing money at them.


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## BlkGeep (Dec 7, 2014)

Your thinking local kids, it's a global company, all the income is generated at no cost. No cost. Ever penny was generated by drivers who absorb all the cost. Then redistributed, sure, but at no loss to Uber.


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## anOzzieUber (Oct 31, 2014)

And I echo what unter ling said. So many rides, even now are free or $10 off for new riders or referrals. Uber would be haemorrhaging money left, right and centre.


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## Casandria (Dec 20, 2014)

Anyone who thinks that Uber is actually taking a loss has drunk the Uber koolaid. If I make $100 from one person and pay them $75 and then make $75 from another person and pay them $100 I break even, I don't take a loss. If I make $100 from one person and pay them $50 and then make $75 from someone else and give them $100, I make a profit. Uber isn't doing guarantees in every city and you can bet they won't last long and they've made plenty off us to cover it. Their books are in the black and will stay that way.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Uber doesn't lose money. They might take a hit, but they always make money. Sometimes more...sometimes less but they are always making money. If you lose $100 in one month but make $300 the next month, you are making money.


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## anOzzieUber (Oct 31, 2014)

BlkGeep said:


> Your thinking local kids, it's a global company, all the income is generated at no cost. No cost. Ever penny was generated by drivers who absorb all the cost. Then redistributed, sure, but at no loss to Uber.


Of course they have costs. Are the managers and csrs working for free from rent free premises? And from an IT background I guarantee their IT infrastructure is costing them a small fortune to keep running.


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## Casandria (Dec 20, 2014)

Actually, most of them work from home...


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## BlkGeep (Dec 7, 2014)

I didn't say they ran the business for free. We paid for it. We pay for everything. We pay for the free rides, we pay for the gas, money gets moved around, but it's all generated by us, at no cost to Uber.


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## Steve French (Dec 1, 2014)

All that this means the the "guarantees" won't be around much longer.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Steve French said:


> All that this means the the "guarantees" won't be around much longer.[/QUOTE
> Time for a change..... It was fun while it lasted.


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## DjTim (Oct 18, 2014)

Uber may have some fixed costs (data centers, data connections) and variable costs (employees, bandwidth, phone) but there is no way they are losing money. 

We have no real clue as to what they are earning in other countries and how that relates to their entire gross earnings or even net earnings.

Don't forget - the markets where they did not make cuts, like Chicago, they are making cash. Maybe they trade a dollar here and there but overall they are making cash - lots and lots of cash.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

DjTim said:


> Uber may have some fixed costs (data centers, data connections) and variable costs (employees, bandwidth, phone) but there is no way they are losing money.
> 
> We have no real clue as to what they are earning in other countries and how that relates to their entire gross earnings or even net earnings.
> 
> Don't forget - the markets where they did not make cuts, like Chicago, they are making cash. Maybe they trade a dollar here and there but overall they are making cash - lots and lots of cash.


Don't forget the salary of the dude who comes up with new, creative ways to **** over their drivers. I'll bet he draws a sweet chunk of $$$.


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## BlkGeep (Dec 7, 2014)

Probably pay him so much they are losing money! Ubtards.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

BlkGeep said:


> Probably pay him so much they are losing money! Ubtards.


Let's hope.


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## anOzzieUber (Oct 31, 2014)

BlkGeep said:


> I didn't say they ran the business for free. We paid for it. We pay for everything. We pay for the free rides, we pay for the gas, money gets moved around, but it's all generated by us, at no cost to Uber.


No we don't pay for the free rides. Is Uber taking advantage of some and paying crappy wage? Yes. But saying Uber has no costs is just stupid. Why would they need to generate so much venture capital if generating money from us didn't cost them anything.

What they have done in these 48 cities is extremely stupid in my opinion and I feel for you guys and gals.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Steve French said:


> All that this means the the "guarantees" won't be around much longer.


So "milk it" while you can.


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## UberHustla (Dec 2, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> Don't forget the salary of the dude who comes up with new, creative ways to **** over their drivers. I'll bet he draws a sweet chunk of $$$.


It's like being the guy during the gold rush selling shovels


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## Chip Dawg (Jul 27, 2014)

Like I stated in another thread, I refuse to believe drivers will drive 4 and 5 dollar fares all day without the guarantee. I hope drivers are smarter than that.


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## UberHustla (Dec 2, 2014)

Chip Dawg said:


> I hope drivers are smarter than that.


Clearly you're under estimating people


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Chip Dawg said:


> Like I stated in another thread, I refuse to believe drivers will drive 4 and 5 dollar fares all day without the guarantee. I hope drivers are smarter than that.


The unemployed ones with qualifying cars will. Why wouldn't they?

Even the ones with non-qualifying cars will find a way. I will sell them my account on Ebay.


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

I see some of you understood and some of you didn't..

Of course Uber makes no loss.
before they offered the guarantee in "some markets" they for sure analysed all the data to make they are always on top of the business.

ALSO THEY JUST BOUGHT A LOT OF POSITIVE PR !
we care about our drivers and they now make 12% more even tho you guys (pax!) pay 20% less - bla bla bullshit !

First I thought I found a loop hole if I just need to be logged in and get a hourly guarantee..
BUT:

I need to make at least one trip per hour, which means the risk is still "on the drivers side"
I live in a slow area if I logged in from home I usually get zero rides.. 
with the guarantee this would have been so awesome and I would just be getting paid for sitting at home and watching TV..

BUT IT'S NOT !

If no one requests a ride and I can't achieve the one trip per hour requirement I get no guarantee.

Now let's say I am stupid enough to be excited about the guarantee and sitting in my car for hours and just making a very few trips.
The hourly guarantees are not that high and still will be deducted the 20% fee plus the dollar per ride.

If I drive I will most likely make more than the guarantee but have to work.
After reading the fineprint, I decided to stay at home my paycheck was $78 for last week and that only happened because I was in the OC
and there was a lot of traffic on the 91 towards the IE.. so I decided to login for a bit..

It might work for some of you, but I really don't get excited about their guarantee..


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## Josivy (Oct 3, 2014)

I was quite surprised when I saw my payment statement. Although I had made only $280 in fares, I managed to make an additional $250 with the guarantees!  Also, I only worked Friday-Sunday.... I made out like a bandit since Uber also promised me $$$ if I went to Green Bay.. so I did! They don't have the rate cut up there, with lots of out of towners, I had much higher fares than than here in my market! 


Oh and Uber's cut was a mere $120, that's the safe rider's fee and their 20%.


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

Last I checked nobody put a gun to travis head... He just had some ganja and decided on a 40% rate cut. This thing is going either:
1) Travis cuts guarantees and leaves these trashy rates
2) Travis cuts guarantees and nudges up rates 5-10%. I can bet my dirty jeans rates will never go back to precut levels.

Drivers get the raw deal either way. Again am more concerned about my bottom line and uberMobile insurance than Travis recording losses in a few markets or not.


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## Steve French (Dec 1, 2014)

UberHustla said:


> It's like being the guy during the gold rush selling shovels


HA! It really is a know fact most of the ones to strike it rich during the gold rush were selling the equipment. I try to remember this everyday in business.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> I live in a slow area if I logged in from home I usually get zero rides..
> with the guarantee this would have been so awesome and I would just be getting paid for sitting at home and watching TV..
> 
> BUT IT'S NOT !
> ...


You can be getting paid for sitting at home and watching TV. And the fact that your home is a place where you usually get zero rides makes it all the easier to do.

To understand, first you have to grasp that it's NOT "1 trip per hour". It's "an average of 1 trip per hour". Go out and get eight $4 fares in four hours, and then go sit at home and watch TV for the next four hours.

Just make sure to do this in one Uber period and not over two.


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

For me the only smart person is one that games the system designed to exploit them. Gaming guarantees is an art worth celebrating. Bending over is not. Am with all those folks that help nickel and dime the uber cow. 
Just know as you make a few dollars off Travis he is already making billions off uberDUMMIES that believe in the 1600$ a week BS. Yes if it is on Craigslist then it mist be true...or not.


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## jsixis (Dec 14, 2014)

thedarkstar said:


> From my statement of last week
> 
> They collected 130 in their 20% fee but paid me $140 towards guarantees.
> 
> ...


they made enough on new years eve to pay us all year


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## Schulz (Nov 25, 2014)

Yes, according to what I've read on business blogs Uber is trying to run Lyft and all competitors out of business right now, this year, so that they (Uber) are all that is left. Then Uber will be in a better position to fight off regulations that they expect will become a battle in 1-2 years. In the meantime, last year they planned all of these rate-cuts, and at the same time hired many new drivers to replace disgruntled drivers.


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## ontheroad (Aug 31, 2014)

This was said before by another driver (cannot remember who it was) nevertheless, it is worth mentioning again here, in response to your claim that Uber is taking in losses. IT DOES NOT MATTER!! One only has to look at Amazon, 19 plus years in business and continues to lose money. It really is a brave new world for the "selected"few.


thedarkstar said:


> From my statement of last week
> 
> They collected 130 in their 20% fee but paid me $140 towards guarantees.
> 
> ...


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## Eric K (Dec 28, 2014)

To say Uber has NO cost is ludacris. Just the cost of the software alone has to be quite extraordinary. Also the security of the software must be top notch. I'm kind of surprised that Uber and/or Lyft hasn't had security breaches. They also have lots of employees on they payroll so let's not be naive and say they have no cost.
Let's also not be naive and say they are taking losses. If they are it's like the earlier poster and how he commented how Amazon has been losing money for 19 years. Showing a 'loss' is kind of a misnomer. I am self employed in other areas and there have been years I've shown a 'loss'.
As I say I'm not naive and thinking that Uber is losing money by paying out the guarantees. Most people probably won't get them, or they get enough rides to go over the guarantee rates.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

once they on board a few thousand new drivers who have no idea what the good old days were like they will stop all the guarantees. It's as simple as that.


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## wtdrivesnj (Dec 5, 2014)

http://www.geekwire.com/2015/heres-many-trips-uber-provided-new-years-eve-2014/

New year's eve Gross revenue: $10 Million.. That's Uber's take in 1 day...If I were you I wouldn't worry about Uber making money I would worry about me making money. Believe me with or without you Uber's current Owners will make Billions. A company may not necessarily show that they are in the Black for the Owners to make money.


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## UrbanFisherman (Jan 2, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Not true. Uber collected $60 in their 20% from me, and that was from 41 trips, so $60 + $41 = $101 that Uber collected from my work. They paid me $149 in guarantees, above and beyond my 80% trip money. That's a $48 loss for Uber.


That's a loss they took on you. A loss they can afford to take because of the 20% they were taking out your arse before there were guarantees... That goes for everyone. And also consider those who don't meet the requirements for the guarantee. So they rob Peter to pay Paul


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## UrbanFisherman (Jan 2, 2015)

Brilliant


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

thedarkstar said:


> From my statement of last week
> 
> They collected 130 in their 20% fee but paid me $140 towards guarantees.
> 
> ...


They took a loss on you but think of all the drivers they made money on where no bonus was paid. The guarantee is nothing more than a marketing ploy to get drivers to be on the road. It will be gone soon enough.

And yes, they will lose money to buy market share. They do it every time they give a $20 promo ride to the pax and the referral pax. I never give out my Uber Driver referral number. That's 5 bucks. I give out my pax number and get a $20 free ride which I use.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

UrbanFisherman said:


> That's a loss they took on you. A loss they can afford to take because of the 20% they were taking out your arse before there were guarantees... That goes for everyone. And also consider those who don't meet the requirements for the guarantee. So they rob Peter to pay Paul


I don't care if Uber profits from other drivers. That's an A and B relationship and I C my way out of it.

I will continue to game the guarantee. Not because I need the money. But because I know it causes them a loss.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Chip Dawg said:


> Like I stated in another thread, I refuse to believe drivers will drive 4 and 5 dollar fares all day without the guarantee. I hope drivers are smarter than that.


I believe there are plenty of semi-******ed people who will continue to work while barely breaking even. They get a boner when they pick up a $20 ride and think they have hit the ride share lottery. All Uber has to do is keep running Craigslist ads claiming Uber drivers are going to retire as millionaires and they get an entire new batch of math challenged idiots driving their cars into oblivion.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Lets face it...Uber has costs to run their business. And some of the people here think they understand when Uber makes money or not. Fact is Uber has programs that both win them and loose them money. But there is usually a method to the madness you may never see. Lets give a quick rundown.

1) Rate cuts may hurt Uber on paper. But money may be filtered from advertising budgets to fund the program to gain more market share. Whats more effective. A billboard in times square for over a million a month. Or take a hit on the pocket book and get tax incentives for the loss while converting more people off their competitors. 

2) Spotify partnership. I'm sure Spotify paid Uber money to get on their system. As it seems to make no sense from what we see I bet Uber got a chunk of change for it and Spotify has reported a surge in paid memberships. Not saying this is Uber's doing but Uber can sell it to others as such and time more companies to their brand.

3) Price cuts come at a time when there is a lot of regulator eyes on them around the world. Doing the USA as a first step on rate cuts put them in favour with their customers. Customers are who have the power against the lobby groups, drivers mean shit to that fight and if anything to them we can be as problematic as the taxi industry they are fighting against.

4) Partnership with 20th Century Fox. Again Uber becomes an advertising medium and I am sure makes some big bucks for it. Not all money comes from rides for a company.

The moment you think Uber is all about rides and that's it I when you are not looking at the whole Uber picture. They are a platform only. Rides are one of the products they offer. But they make revenue in many other places. So if they loose the money in rides for now. They can make revenue in other areas to offset the loss they take. In the end they will make it back.

So for the average driver lets hope that they come back to making a profit where others are effected in that area.

This is an opinion, I don't have an Uber crystal ball but I know how most enterprise structures work. (I have read enough financial data on public companies in my time and it all plays out the same)


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> I believe there are plenty of semi-******ed people who will continue to work while barely breaking even. They get a boner when they pick up a $20 ride and think they have hit the ride share lottery. All Uber has to do is keep running Craigslist ads claiming Uber drivers are going to retire as millionaires and they get an entire new batch of math challenged idiots driving their cars into oblivion.


As the rates have now been dropped below operating costs in many cities, driving for Uber is now very much like a casino, filled with thousands of people hoping to feel the "rush" that comes with landing a big pay out. But overall the house (Uber) always profits because overall the gamblers (drivers) lose more than they win.

At these rates there is no more profit in driving for Uber than there is gambling in a casino. But both Uber and casinos will continue to operate because some people live for that "rush".


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> As the rates have now been dropped below operating costs in many cities, driving for Uber is now very much like a casino, filled with thousands of people hoping to feel the "rush" that comes with landing a big pay out. But overall the house (Uber) always profits because overall the gamblers (drivers) lose more than they win.
> 
> At these rates there is no more profit in driving for Uber than there is gambling in a casino. But both Uber and casinos will continue to operate because some people live for that "rush".


I think that's a great analogy.

At least at the casino I get free drinks.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> I think that's a great analogy.
> 
> At least at the casino I get free drinks.


Whenever a passenger gets into your car with an open container, tell them no open containers in your car, take it from them and proceed to drink it as you drive. There's your free drink and it lets the asshole in your backseat know who is really in charge.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> Whenever a passenger gets into your car with an open container, tell them no open containers in your car, take it from them and proceed to drink it as you drive. There's your free drink and it lets the asshole in your backseat know who is really in charge.


Ewwwwwwww...I don't know if I would drink a Pax backwash. That's a gamble I don't want to take. Then again if I had a rate cut in my area we all may be doing some strange things for booze on weekends.


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## Just_in (Jun 29, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> As the rates have now been dropped below operating costs in many cities, driving for Uber is now very much like a casino, filled with thousands of people hoping to feel the "rush" that comes with landing a big pay out. But overall the house (Uber) always profits because overall the gamblers (drivers) lose more than they win.
> 
> At these rates there is no more profit in driving for Uber than there is gambling in a casino. But both Uber and casinos will continue to operate because some people live for that "rush".


You read my mind. I was thinking the same thing. A Casino. Perfect analogy.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> As the rates have now been dropped below operating costs in many cities, driving for Uber is now very much like a casino, filled with thousands of people hoping to feel the "rush" that comes with landing a big pay out. But overall the house (Uber) always profits because overall the gamblers (drivers) lose more than they win.
> 
> At these rates there is no more profit in driving for Uber than there is gambling in a casino. But both Uber and casinos will continue to operate because some people live for that "rush".


That's my analogy from a post I made yesterday. At least give me credit.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

I need credit for my casino reference.... I am THAT insecure! Here's what I wrote yesterday.



Realityshark said:


> It was fun while it lasted, you are about a year late. Uber has made it impossible to make any money. You will destroy your car within two years (less if you try full time) It reminds me of a gambling addiction. There will be days when you get a few long runs that will make you think that you have figured out a way to make some money, but if you pay close attention, over time you will end up losing. It's like walking up to a winning craps table. You wonder why it took you so long to find the game. You get hooked and by the end of the night, you've given back all your winnings and have hit the ATM three times. Study this forum paying attention to threads about how to calculate your real profits or just save your valuable time and start some sort of internet side business. I suggest you run away from the ride share game as fast as you can. I believe there are many drivers who have gotten used to the routine and are unable to walk away. Again, just like hanging around a casino.


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

anOzzieUber said:


> No we don't pay for the free rides. Is Uber taking advantage of some and paying crappy wage? Yes. But saying Uber has no costs is just stupid. Why would they need to generate so much venture capital if generating money from us didn't cost them anything.
> 
> What they have done in these 48 cities is extremely stupid in my opinion and I feel for you guys and gals.


I believe they took the $1.3 billion and put it in a fund to pay for the guarantees. They traded stock that at this moment is worth nothing to them except what someone will pay for it. They will hold it until Uber goes public.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

God I'm losing it....time to log off and get back to my life...


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Wow, you guys actually think, just because uber paid you a guarantee, uber is losing money, 12:30am this morning I got ride for $44, at 1:20am got ride for $52, my guarantee is $12 per hour 12am to 5am, don't think uber needed to pay me a guarantee, don't think uber loss money because of me.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> That's my analogy from a post I made yesterday. At least give me credit.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

painfreepc said:


> Wow, you guys actually think, just because uber paid you a guarantee, uber is losing money, 12:30am this morning I got ride for $44, at 1:20am got ride for $52, my guarantee is $12 per hour 12am to 5am, don't think uber needed to pay me a guarantee, don't think uber loss money because of me.


Read the thread title. It's not saying Uber is a "taking a loss". It says it is "taking losses".

Overall I doubt Uber is taking a loss, but it is taking losses. I know it is, because it is taking a loss on me, as well as others I know who are doing the same game I am.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

UberHammer said:


>


Thanks ...Love ya. You saved me from having a psychotic meltdown.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> Thanks ...Love ya. You saved me from having a psychotic meltdown.


I think someone just needs a hug....lol


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

thedarkstar said:


> From my statement of last week
> 
> They collected 130 in their 20% fee but paid me $140 towards guarantees.
> 
> ...


Ahh.. the world of startups and venture capital investors.
Uber so far borrowed 2 billion dollars and they spent it.
No profit, 2 billion in the hole.

But that's what startups do, they do not need to show profit
only potential future profit and they did that with flying colors.
The $41 billion evaluation means that if they go public today they will most likely 
raise 41 billion based on these potential future profits.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

ElectroFuzz said:


> Ahh.. the world of startups and venture capital investors.
> Uber so far borrowed 2 billion dollars and they spent it.
> No profit, 2 billion in the hole.
> 
> ...


Providing of course that enough dumbasses buy the stock. That's why press is so important to Uber. Everyone is so bent on trying to figure out how to get Uber's attention to treat us fairly. The answer is lobbying as many journalists on our side as you can. Bad press is the kiss of death to a company trying for an IPO. I wouldn't touch Uber stock if it were a penny stock.


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## UrbanFisherman (Jan 2, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> I don't care if Uber profits from other drivers. That's an A and B relationship and I C my way out of it.
> 
> I will continue to game the guarantee. Not because I need the money. But because I know it causes them a loss.


I feel ya. But overall they are not taking a loss. It only appears so when looking at your statement. But truly you do gain from it. more power to ya


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> You can be getting paid for sitting at home and watching TV. And the fact that your home is a place where you usually get zero rides makes it all the easier to do.
> 
> To understand, first you have to grasp that it's NOT "1 trip per hour". It's "an average of 1 trip per hour". Go out and get eight $4 fares in four hours, and then go sit at home and watch TV for the next four hours.
> 
> Just make sure to do this in one Uber period and not over two.


are you sure ? because then it would make sense to try to get a few short trips and just staying logged in overnight where usually no rides pop up here..
and while I sleep and a ping is not accepted it will log me out and drop my acceptance rate to 90% worst case but still good enough to get the guarantee.

*however I believe $12 hourly pay for watching tv is not fair !!!*

There are so many bad movies and too much commercials shown.. I should get $20 at least for it


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> are you sure ? because then it would make sense to try to get a few short trips and just staying logged in overnight where usually no rides pop up here..
> and while I sleep and a ping is not accepted it will log me out and drop my acceptance rate to 90% worst case but still good enough to get the guarantee.
> 
> *however I believe $12 hourly pay for watching tv is not fair !!!*
> ...


I'm pretty sure, as long as your home is in the service area.

I didn't say you could sleep and miss pings though.


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## f1ken (Jan 6, 2015)

Would someone please explain the Winter guarantee...I had 2 rides that were under the 18.00 guarantee...didn't get any more pay.


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## Eric K (Dec 28, 2014)

f1ken said:


> Would someone please explain the Winter guarantee...I had 2 rides that were under the 18.00 guarantee...didn't get any more pay.


From what I've understood it's an 'average' one call per hour. Not one call per hour. so if you are on 3 hours and got one call you would not get the guarantee


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

thedarkstar said:


> From my statement of last week
> 
> They collected 130 in their 20% fee but paid me $140 towards guarantees.
> 
> ...


Now that Uber is payin (losing) $1000 just to recruit lyft drivers, does that change the way you think about Uber? They are throwing away cash to gain domination. No iota of sympathy here from me. Frankly they got $10B to blow so they decide to use us drivers as cannon fodder in their blitz against lyft.


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## jsixis (Dec 14, 2014)

f1ken said:


> Would someone please explain the Winter guarantee...I had 2 rides that were under the 18.00 guarantee...didn't get any more pay.


I have no clue, I worked 16 hours for the $22 guarantee and was only paid for 3 of it. I get to go see them in the morning to straighten this out.
They will be surprised, I speak English, I know math and I have pictures.


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## Willie Stone (Nov 6, 2014)

Uber doesn't pay its guarantees to everyone.you are lucky to get paid correctly.


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## Willie Stone (Nov 6, 2014)

The local offices has nothing to do with your payments.don't complain to them.use the official uber twitter which is very public and then uber will resolve it quickly.if you write to your local office good luck waiting


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Josivy said:


> I was quite surprised when I saw my payment statement. Although I had made only $280 in fares, I managed to make an additional $250 with the guarantees!  Also, I only worked Friday-Sunday.... I made out like a bandit since Uber also promised me $$$ if I went to Green Bay.. so I did! They don't have the rate cut up there, with lots of out of towners, I had much higher fares than than here in my market!
> 
> Oh and Uber's cut was a mere $120, that's the safe rider's fee and their 20%.


POST # 32 / JOSIVY: □ □ □ Welcome to the
UP.net Forums and Happy New Year from
balmy Marco Island. 
You are rightfully
proud of your earnings BUT BE AWARE
that the UBERChubby that feels SO GOOD
now will disappear soon and without
warning. What you're experiencing
now is the JobPride version of CRACK.

Heads up. Read these postings. Keep
your eyes wide open. Good luck.


----------



## kalaks98 (Dec 4, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Uber collected $60 in their 20% from me.
> 
> They paid me $149 in guarantees, plus my 80% trip money.
> 
> They are taking a loss from my work, and I'm smiling about it.


 How do you get the guarantees + 80% of your trip money??? I just emailed their support for clarification: They said that You get the GREATER of Minimum Gaurantee VS the actual trips money!!!!! so if your are guaranteed $22 an hour and you made $15 an hour average...they pay you $22. If you made and average of $30 an hour on actual trip money, you get paid the $30 only. So how come they paid you Guarantee + 80% Actual Trip money??? You must be lucky, or the support guy who responded to me have no ****en clue!


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

f1ken said:


> Would someone please explain the Winter guarantee...I had 2 rides that were under the 18.00 guarantee...didn't get any more pay.


POST # 68 / F1 KEN: □ □ □ Well hola, Grampa
Ken and welcome to the UP.net Forums.
BTW Happy New Year from Marco Island, FL!
Had to check THREE different atlases to find
Sun City. You must be very glad to see the
height of Lake Elsinore rising g r a d u a l l y.

Consider reading these postings to be
Basic Training for Fubering. Nearly all
your inquiries have been asked & answered
within them. Happy hunting and Good Luck.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

kalaks98 said:


> How do you get the guarantees + 80% of your trip money??? I just emailed their support for clarification: They said that You get the GREATER of Minimum Gaurantee VS the actual trips money!!!!! so if your are guaranteed $22 an hour and you made $15 an hour average...they pay you $22. If you made and average of $30 an hour on actual trip money, you get paid the $30 only. So how come they paid you Guarantee + 80% Actual Trip money??? You must be lucky, or the support guy who responded to me have no ****en clue!


This is the wording from the guarantee: "Guarantee payouts are based on the *difference* between partners' average fare/hour and the guaranteed amount in gross bookings."

If you worked one full hour, got one ping request, accepted and got a $15 fare from it, then here is the math:

$22 (the guaranteed amount in gross bookings) - $15 (your average fare/hour) = $7.

Uber takes 20% from the $7, so you get $5.60 in guarantees + 80% of the trip money.

$15 - $1 (Safe rider fee) = $14. 80% of $14 = $11.20

You get $16.80 total ($5.60 + $11.20).

And for those that don't believe you are losing part of your guarantee due to the safe rider fees, look at the wording of the guarantee. They are NOT calculating the difference between the partners' average gross/hour and the guaranteed amount in gross bookings. The are INSTEAD subtracting the partner's average FARE/hour from the guaranteed amount in gross bookings. The FARE includes the safe rider fee. The gross amount does not. They are using the FARE amount, not the gross amount. If you take a $4 trip, they are subtracting $4 from the guaranteed amount, not $3 which is the gross after the safe rider fee.


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## driveLA (Aug 15, 2014)

[ItTE="UberHammer, post: 141056, member: 5765"]Not true. Uber collected $60 in their 20% from me, and that was from 41 trips, so $60 + $41 = $101 that Uber collected from my work. They paid me $149 in guarantees, above and beyond my 80% trip money. That's a $48 loss for Uber.[/QUOTE]

Uber does not provide the car or driver or anything. They might not be making money but they certainly are not losing it when you are the one providing the assets at your own cost.

Let's not get too excited.


----------



## UrbanFisherman (Jan 2, 2015)

http://www.atlantaintownpaper.com/2...ers-protest-marta-mlk-schedule-trees-atlanta/


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Steve French said:


> All that this means the the "guarantees" won't be around much longer.


The guarantees are BS anyway.
Almost impossible to qualify, & you must live like a VAMPIRE!
At least here, they require you to work till 3am 5 nights a week.
I am never doung that!
Plus, it sickens me when people say "I'm making/they're guaranteeing" $20/hr!
Remember "grossing $20 means "NETTING" about $8!
(At 3am with pukers in your car)
Big whoop!


----------



## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> The guarantees are BS anyway.
> Almost impossible to qualify, & you must live like a VAMPIRE!
> At least here, they require you to work till 3am 5 nights a week.
> I am never doung that!
> ...


I would like to see how $20 Gross becomes $8 net. What are you doing washing your car in Fiji Water and filling your car with jet fuel? I'm no accountant but those numbers seem a little out of whack.

Then again if you are driving a V12 engine the fuel could wind you down to that.

If you are spending more than 50% of your fares on your expenses. (And I'm not talking about expenses you already would have even if you were not doing Uber) Then you are getting big time screwed. That's no way to run a business unless you are doing billions on revenue.


----------



## RyBro (Jan 5, 2015)

Exactly! You have your immediate expenses like gas and such, but you are also loading up a bunch of expenses you don't see: brakes, tires, devaluation, and then increased risk of tickets, accidents, etc... Not to mention eventual insurance problems.
Remember kids: Uber's model is to churn drivers. They count on new drivers who need quick cash NOW and don't care about the future expenses they're racking up. You are being played newbies!


----------



## RyBro (Jan 5, 2015)

Example, from Kelly Blue Book: 
A 2010 Camry LE with standard miles for a car that age (60000) sells for $13,900. Same car with double the miles sells for $6500. That is nearly $7500 you lost to Uber. Or around 10-15 cents a mile. And that is just depreciation and on a car that depreciates slowly. Other cars will fair worse. You can't sell an American car with over 150,000 miles on it for anything, in my experience. 
So anyway, that is 10 cents or more per mile you are losing every mile you drive, but that lose is banked in the future. Basically you are loaning that 10 cents a mile to yourself right now, and you don't pay it back until you have to sell your car. But it is there kiddos!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> I would like to see how $20 Gross becomes $8 net. What are you doing washing your car in Fiji Water and filling your car with jet fuel? I'm no accountant but those numbers seem a little out of whack.
> 
> Then again if you are driving a V12 engine the fuel could wind you down to that.
> 
> If you are spending more than 50% of your fares on your expenses. (And I'm not talking about expenses you already would have even if you were not doing Uber) Then you are getting big time screwed. That's no way to run a business unless you are doing billions on revenue.


You're one of those that ignores depreciation and other hidden expenses, and only counts gas. If ur still driving for uber after the rate cuts then you are simply choosing to "eat your car", and then rationalizing it as an "hourly wage earned".

PRE rate cut, drivers would actually only net 37% of the fare.
POST rate cut ...
Here's the real painful math:
$.75/mile x .8 (uber cut) = $.60/mile
It actually costs $.55/mile to run your car (includes gas, this is the IRS standard)
So you only net $.05/mile, which is actually 6.6% of $.75 (total fare).
This works out to approx. $1.5/hr in true net profit!
But that is only on paid miles, unpaid miles lose $.55/mile, which puts you in the red!
I was very generous with the $20 = $8, because their is some subsidy in the guarantee plans (which are quite temporary), if you meet all of the ridiculous requirements!
Uber is a BIG loser for drivers now!
A $40k car is pretty much a throw away after 120k miles, thats $.33/mile right there, plus $.10/mile gas (was $.20 last summer) plus oil, brakes, tires ... Etc!


----------



## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> You're one of those that ignores depreciation and other hidden expenses, and only counts gas. If ur still driving for uber after the rate cuts then you are simply choosing to "eat your car", and then rationalizing it as an "hourly wage earned".
> 
> PRE rate cut, drivers would actually only net 37% of the fare.
> POST rate cut ...
> ...


But if you own a car in the real world many of the expenses you quote would be required to be paid anyways. Deduct the cost to operate a personal automobile in the US. Now if you say that your car is only being used for Uber and if it wasn't for them you would take the bus everywhere then I could see the math holding up.

I think you are on the right track, but you can't say that personal miles are Ubers problem. And the IRS standard is pretty generous. That's not true cost.

And a $40K car for UberX? Who actually does that?

Like I said I know you did some math there that makes sense. But if I was an auditor I would find some holes in the logic.

What is your Ratio of Uber/Personal Use?

Also remember when Uber pays a Guarantee they don't cut 20% out of that. At least not up here they don't. And with lower numbers of fares it's lower numbers of Safe rider fees.

Just saying I think $8 is till a bit low on the evaluation.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> But if you own a car in the real world many of the expenses you quote would be required to be paid anyways. Deduct the cost to operate a personal automobile in the US. Now if you say that your car is only being used for Uber and if it wasn't for them you would take the bus everywhere then I could see the math holding up.
> 
> I think you are on the right track, but you can't say that personal miles are Ubers problem. And the IRS standard is pretty generous. That's not true cost.
> 
> ...


Yes, Uber takes 20% from all guarantees. Remember, it is not an "hourly wage guarantee", it is a "BOOKING guarantee", nothing else changes.
I did not include insurance, which is the only thing that you would have to have anyway. All cost were specific to ubering, not related to personal miles. You mistook "unpaid miles" for "personal miles". "Dead" (unpaid miles) means driving on Uber shift with no pax in the car (close to half the miles). $.50 cents a mile is totally real, no fudge. Most people here have new cars, but the math is not very different for an older car, maybe 40c/mile at a low, still operating at a net loss!


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Yes, Uber takes 20% from all guarantees. Remember, it is not an "hourly wage guarantee", it is a "BOOKING guarantee", nothing else changes.
> I did not include insurance, which is the only thing that you would have to have anyway. All cost were specific to ubering, not related to personal miles. You mistook "unpaid miles" for "personal miles". "Dead" (unpaid miles) means driving on Uber shift with no pax in the car (close to half the miles). $.50 cents a mile is totally real, no fudge. Most people here have new cars, but the math is not very different for an older car, maybe 40c/mile at a low, still operating at a net loss!


Thanks for clarifying the guarantee for me. didn't think they were taking 20% off that. But will start to check my statements if they ever start to do it around here again.

I guess what I was saying is that this is a personal car and not just an Uber car. Or are you exclusively using it for Uber work. I would think if it's a personal car and you were doing Uber for 50% of the use. Then only 50% of the expenses would apply on hard costs. (Car payment, insurance, full gas receipts). The miles driven is a different story but the depreciation cost is not the IRS number but calculated differently. (And is vehicle dependent).

I'm sure you are running the numbers for your situation, and it probably fits for most on here. I'm not here to dispute it and thanks for taking the time to respond. Just trying to find where my math differs.

And you are being a good sport about it so hats of to you.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> Thanks for clarifying the guarantee for me. didn't think they were taking 20% off that. But will start to check my statements if they ever start to do it around here again.
> 
> I guess what I was saying is that this is a personal car and not just an Uber car. Or are you exclusively using it for Uber work. I would think if it's a personal car and you were doing Uber for 50% of the use. Then only 50% of the expenses would apply on hard costs. (Car payment, insurance, full gas receipts). The miles driven is a different story but the depreciation cost is not the IRS number but calculated differently. (And is vehicle dependent).
> 
> ...


Car payment doesn't matter, insurance isn't even factored in, personal use % doesn't matter. We are breaking down a cars total useful life into a per mile cost. Ie. $40,000 car dead/used up at 100k miles = $.40/mile, gas = $.10/mile, maintenance = $.05/mile = $.55/mile. Doesn't matter how many go to personal or Uber use. See, everything, depreciation, gas, tires, brakes, oil ... all prorated per mile, you decide how to "use up" your car, personal or Uber, but it doesn't change the cost per mile. For those that say car not dead at 100K+ miles, remember we haven't included any major repairs like engine, drive train, suspension, exhaust. Once you get over 100K miles those expensive items will keep you right up @ $.40/mile. Again this works out to netting $.05/mile or 7% of the total fare, & net LOSING approx. $.20/mile or -27% of the total fare, after 50% dead ubering miles (no paying pax) factored in. Absolutely no one should be driving at rates of under $1/mile. These desperadoes are just choosing to turn their car into food, and rationalizing it as an "hourly wage earned" even though they are LOSING money! In fact they are "parting out" their car at a 27% discount/loss.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Car payment doesn't matter, insurance isn't even factored in, personal use % doesn't matter. We are breaking down a cars total useful life into a per mile cost. Ie. $40,000 car dead/used up at 100k miles = $.40/mile, gas = $.10/mile, maintenance = $.05/mile = $.55/mile. Doesn't matter how many go to personal or Uber use. See, everything, depreciation, gas, tires, brakes, oil ... all prorated per mile, you decide how to "use up" your car, personal or Uber, but it doesn't change the cost per mile. For those that say car not dead at 100K+ miles, remember we haven't included any major repairs like engine, drive train, suspension, exhaust. Once you get over 100K miles those expensive items will keep you right up @ $.40/mile. Again this works out to netting $.05/mile or 7% of the total fare, & net LOSING approx. $.20/mile or -27% of the total fare, after 50% dead ubering miles (no paying pax) factored in. Absolutely no one should be driving at rates of under $1/mile. These desperadoes are just choosing to turn their car into food, and rationalizing it as an "hourly wage earned" even though they are LOSING money! In fact they are "parting out" their car at a 27% discount/loss.


I guess I see the personal still a factor on the total ownership of the vehicle.

There is no compensation on personal miles, it's dead miles in the total cost of the vehicle where you don't get anything for it.

Now I do agree you will burn your miles faster with Uber so the total like for the vehicle will be less. (All again dependent on the personal to Uber ratio)

Also I do hear a lot about the dead mile ratio being 1:1. Guess I'm lucky in my area it's a lot less. And I'm not driving around looking or needing to drive to a city to start my work.


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## Route9 (Oct 29, 2014)

Uber appears to actually have huge legal bills. They must have a ton of lawyers on staff to deal with the legal stuff.
The running at a loss is called penetration pricing. It's a way to drive your competition out of business and build customer loyalty. It's usually followed by rates going through the roof when the competition keels over.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Yes, Uber takes 20% from all guarantees. Remember, it is not an "hourly wage guarantee", it is a "BOOKING guarantee", nothing else changes.
> I did not include insurance, which is the only thing that you would have to have anyway. All cost were specific to ubering, not related to personal miles. You mistook "unpaid miles" for "personal miles". "Dead" (unpaid miles) means driving on Uber shift with no pax in the car (close to half the miles). $.50 cents a mile is totally real, no fudge. Most people here have new cars, but the math is not very different for an older car, maybe 40c/mile at a low, still operating at a net loss!


They take more than 20% from the guarantee.

If you qualify for a $12 guarantee, you do NOT net $9.60. Because in order to qualify for the guarantee you had to take a trip, and they are subtracting the entire fare INCLUDING THE SAFE RIDER FEE when calculating your guarantee pay.

For example, if that fare was $4, you net $2.40 from that because Uber keeps $1 for the safe rider fee and $0.60 of the remaining $3. $1.60 goes to Uber and $2.40 goes to you the driver. When calculating what to pay you for the guarantee, Uber subtracts the entire fare of $4 (which includes the $1 safe rider fee), which results in $8. They then subtract 20% if it, leaving you with $6.40 in guarantee pay.

You get $2.40 + $6.40 = $8.80.... NOT $9.60.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

**** Uber's "loss"... I did less than $18.00 per hour on prime Friday and Saturday nights.

New rates suck, and too many drivers


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

RyBro said:


> Exactly! You have your immediate expenses like gas and such, but you are also loading up a bunch of expenses you don't see: brakes, tires, devaluation, and then increased risk of tickets, accidents, etc... Not to mention eventual insurance problems.
> Remember kids: Uber's model is to churn drivers. They count on new drivers who need quick cash NOW and don't care about the future expenses they're racking up. You are being played newbies!


....well said! Unfortunately, it isn't just the newbies who are being played....


----------



## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

thedarkstar said:


> From my statement of last week
> 
> They collected 130 in their 20% fee but paid me $140 towards guarantees.
> 
> ...


...of course Uber is NOT loosing money. Also...as many have pointed out...even with the guarantees (assuming there are actually paid) most drivers are still turning their wheels (and assuming a disproportionate risk) for what is essentially minimum wage.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Eric K said:


> To say Uber has NO cost is ludacris.


Ludacris is a rap artist who enjoyed brief popularity in the late 90's.

I prefer these alternative spellings:
Looter Chris
Looderkriss
Ludahcris
Lou Da Khris


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> They take more than 20% from the guarantee.
> 
> If you qualify for a $12 guarantee, you do NOT net $9.60. Because in order to qualify for the guarantee you had to take a trip, and they are subtracting the entire fare INCLUDING THE SAFE RIDER FEE when calculating your guarantee pay.
> 
> ...


Now there is a guy who has the math down right. Thanks for the explanation as well. Goes to show you don't always believe what you read. And if you are doing Uber for the minimum you won't be getting anywhere.

Then again if it's empty hours at least you will see something.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> But if you own a car in the real world many of the expenses you quote would be required to be paid anyways. Deduct the cost to operate a personal automobile in the US. Now if you say that your car is only being used for Uber and if it wasn't for them you would take the bus everywhere then I could see the math holding up.
> 
> I think you are on the right track, but you can't say that personal miles are Ubers problem. And the IRS standard is pretty generous. That's not true cost.
> 
> ...


Expenses you'd normally incur? Where in the hell do u work? Tahiti?


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> I guess I see the personal still a factor on the total ownership of the vehicle.
> 
> There is no compensation on personal miles, it's dead miles in the total cost of the vehicle where you don't get anything for it.
> 
> ...


NO, when will you get that personal use is NOT a factor? These costs are all broken out specifically to UBER ONLY miles!


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> Expenses you'd normally incur? Where in the hell do u work? Tahiti?


I wish....it would be a lot warmer than the shit we have up here.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> NO, when will you get that personal use is NOT a factor? These costs are all broken out specifically to UBER ONLY miles!


So I think what you are saying is regardless of personal or for Uber the per mile rate is the same. And you are comparing the per mile rate earned to the per mile rate Uber pays.

So personal you are paying for your per mile rate as it's a cost of owning the vehicle. And that's understood.

With Uber you are using your car for them and you are not being compensated adequately to that same per mile rate....so why do it for them if there is no money in it.

It took me awhile to get it but I think I now see how the calculation is working out. Thanks for your patience on explaining....took me a bit to see where the figures are being placed an find the calculation is sound.

Now based on my situation I am using Uber to claim my personal miles on my taxes. I don't get this option if I was not doing Uber. All my miles would be dead miles. So if I do 1 ride a week I'm happy. (And we are not on cut down rates). So even those 5 trips a week at a loss...the tax breaks will outweigh any loses I take. Again I'm using Uber much differently than the vast majority. But I now see where the issues are for a full time or even part time driver who is looking at making "Extra Cash"

Again thanks for your patience and taking time to explain both in a calm manner and with decency. (Sometimes rare to find around here)


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> So I think what you are saying is regardless of personal or for Uber the per mile rate is the same. And you are comparing the per mile rate earned to the per mile rate Uber pays.
> 
> So personal you are paying for your per mile rate as it's a cost of owning the vehicle. And that's understood.
> 
> ...


The answer is ... we (anyone with a brain) are not doing it at the new rates. If your rate is north of $1.20/mile, you can still make (net) a little money $3-4/hr. No, you have a big misunderstanding: just because you are doing some Uber, doesnt mean you can claim/deduct your personal miles on taxes. Not sure where you got that from?? Again, the term "dead miles" is while doing uber, with no pax, in between trips. You can claim those. Keep in mind technically ur supossed to keep a detailed daily log book. Also, understand that this whole miles tax deduction thing only gets credited against uber earnings anyway, and doesnt help offset other household income. So, your thinking that a couple of Uber trips magically creates this big tax dodge, or writing off your whole vehichle is wrong.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> So I think what you are saying is regardless of personal or for Uber the per mile rate is the same. And you are comparing the per mile rate earned to the per mile rate Uber pays.
> 
> So personal you are paying for your per mile rate as it's a cost of owning the vehicle. And that's understood.
> 
> ...


Think of car costs no differently than you think of gas costs. Let's consider how to look at gas costs.

If you fill up your tank for $30, you can chose to consume that tank of gas for Uber use or personal use. If you consume it for personal use, it has nothing to do with your Uber profitability. But if you consume it for Uber use, you want to subtract that $30 from your Uber revenue as a cost of business. This is a no brainer. Profit = revenue minus costs.

But what if some of that tank was consumed for personal use and the rest was used for business use? You don't want to subtract all $30 if some of it was consumed for personal use. There are a few ways to do this. You could just do a 50/50 split and say $15 in gas costs for Ubering. But how is that any more accurate than doing two thirds for Uber and one third for personal and subtracting $20 in gas costs for Uber? Or vice versa and subtracting $10 in gas costs for Uber?

The most accurate way is to log your Uber mileage and multiply that mileage by the current gas price per gallon divided by your car's miles per gallon. So if gas is $2 a gallon and your car gets 25 miles per gallon, then it costs you $0.08 mile in gas for every mile you did driving for Uber. So 100 Uber miles costs you $8 in gas, REGARDLESS of how much gas you consumed for personal use.

Now, just do the same thing with your car. If your car cost you $30,000 in price, taxes and financing, and you believe it will give you 200,000 miles before it's worthless, then your cost per mile for your car is $30,000 / 200,000 = $0.15 per mile. So 100 Uber miles costs you $15 in car costs. Again, this is REGARDLESS of how much you drive your car for personal use.

Now car costs can be a little tricky if you buy a car, but plan to sell it before it becomes worthless, or you buy a used car... but the math is still the same. It just uses different numbers. If your car cost you $30,000 in price, taxes and financing, and you plan to sell it for $10,000 when it has 100,000 miles, then your car costs are $20,000 / 100,000 = $0.20 per mile. If you buy a used car for $10,000 after taxes and financing with 100,000 miles and you believe it will go to 200,000 miles before it's worthless, then your cost per mile for your car is $10,000 / 100,000 = $0.10 per mile. So 100 Uber miles cost you $20 or $10 respectively. And again, this is REGARDLESS of how much you drive your car for personal use.

So now you now what gas costs you per mile to Uber. And you know what your car costs you per mile to Uber. Do the same with tires. $800 in tires gets you 48,000 miles. Tire costs are $800 / 48,000 = $0.0167 per mile. So the same with oil changes. Do it with all the things you do to your car that cost money. Get a $10 car wash every 500 miles? Car wash costs you $10 /500 = $0.05 per mile. Don't ignore these costs. Calculate them. Add them up, and multiply the total cost per mile times your Uber mileage (both paid and empty miles). Subtract that cost from your Uber revenue and you now know your Uber profit.

Any Uber driver who does this math properly will QUIT after seeing what they are actually profiting at these ridiculously low rates. The only reason why Uber can continue operating at these low rates is because too many drivers do NOT do this math, and those that do know the math are unemployed, and that profit is better than earning $0. In business this is called exploitation.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

I think you need to understand that if 90% of my vehicle use is used to travel 20 km to work and 20 km back home. All I need to do is turn on the app during my travel. That's now driving for Uber is completely deductible. It's also completely deductible to leave the app off drive into the city wait for a ping for 5 min and turn it off. That's called driving for Uber because the downtown core is where the business is. It's all mileage for Uber based work. And 100% deductible any way you slice it. Long as I can show some sort of income. It doesn't matter if I work 5 hours or I work 5 min. I now am working. I'm just in the laws eyes being a stupid business owner hemorrhaging money.

So now 90% of my car expenses are covered under this. This offsets my regular tax paying wage and covers car expenses where if Uber doesn't exist I get nothing for my commute.

That's not doing anything illegal. It's called creative taxes. I got 2 years to show a profit and I am allowed to take a loss for the first 2 years. All above board and completely tracked. Why do you think every nightclub owner disappears every 2 years just to start up somewhere else. Cash business? Always running at a loss? I'm sure you get the picture.

Commute to a job is a fixed cost and according to your math I will pay for my commute every day with no tax break. My commute is now getting offset by a tax break. So Uber DOES work for me.

If you can't figure the math in that you deserve to keep working at minimum wage, or worse.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> I think you need to understand that if 90% of my vehicle use is used to travel 20 km to work and 20 km back home. All I need to do is turn on the app during my travel. That's now driving for Uber is completely deductible. It's also completely deductible to leave the app off drive into the city wait for a ping for 5 min and turn it off. That's called driving for Uber because the downtown core is where the business is. It's all mileage for Uber based work. And 100% deductible any way you slice it. Long as I can show some sort of income. It doesn't matter if I work 5 hours or I work 5 min. I now am working. I'm just in the laws eyes being a stupid business owner hemorrhaging money.
> 
> So now 90% of my car expenses are covered under this. This offsets my regular tax paying wage and covers car expenses where if Uber doesn't exist I get nothing for my commute.
> 
> ...


You're still at profitable rates in Toronto. The math doesn't work at the rates most Uber cities are at.

Enjoy your profitable rates while they last. They never do.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> I think you need to understand that if 90% of my vehicle use is used to travel 20 km to work and 20 km back home. All I need to do is turn on the app during my travel. That's now driving for Uber is completely deductible. It's also completely deductible to leave the app off drive into the city wait for a ping for 5 min and turn it off. That's called driving for Uber because the downtown core is where the business is. It's all mileage for Uber based work. And 100% deductible any way you slice it. Long as I can show some sort of income. It doesn't matter if I work 5 hours or I work 5 min. I now am working. I'm just in the laws eyes being a stupid business owner hemorrhaging money.
> 
> So now 90% of my car expenses are covered under this. This offsets my regular tax paying wage and covers car expenses where if Uber doesn't exist I get nothing for my commute.
> 
> ...


"I think you need to understand" .... That' called FRAUD! At least here in the states. lol
So you think you're going to claim your car as 90% business use, but show almost $0 revenue, and a huge net loss?
At a very minimum, thats the fastest way to an audit!
So you better have that detailed daily log book all shiny and ready, when the feds crawl up your ass! Lol
Good luck with that!


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## haji (Jul 17, 2014)

I feel very sorry for uber now, how can we send our donations so they stay in business longer????


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Saying uber is taking losses, is like saying your yacht is taking on water, because you dropped your Perrier.


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## Mean_Judge (Jan 14, 2015)

Guys take advantages on guarantees, its a great time to earn money while we are in out of season stage of the year.
Pro Tips
1 Register your clock in time., clock out time. ( stay at least 55 minutes to count 1 hr )
2 Try best to get at least 1 trip per hr, no cancellation by you and acceptance rate over 90
3 Triple check your payment statement. Lots of errors, because people who does it aren`t Math teachers,.

Example 8 hr online , 8 trips done (108$ gross ) . guarantee is 14$
You will lose 1 dollar for insurance so its 100. Uber gets 20 $ its commision so you earn 80 with your regular policy

Now average is 80/8=10 per hr so you will get 14-10=4 $ per hr guarantees. 4*8=32$ ( full tank ) 

Uber On !


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

alexey8787 said:


> Guys take advantages on guarantees, its a great time to earn money while we are in out of season stage of the year.
> Pro Tips
> 1 Register your clock in time., clock out time. ( stay at least 55 minutes to count 1 hr )
> 2 Try best to get at least 1 trip per hr, no cancellation by you and acceptance rate over 90
> ...


↑
All that this means the the "guarantees" won't be around much longer.
The guarantees are BS anyway.
Almost impossible to qualify, & you must live like a VAMPIRE!
At least here, they require you to work till 3am 5 nights a week.
I am never doing that!
Plus, it sickens me when people say "I'm making/they're guaranteeing" $20/hr!
Remember "grossing $20 means "NETTING" about $8!
(At 3am with pukers in your car)
Big whoop!


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## Mean_Judge (Jan 14, 2015)

Guarantees will be in affect until after spring brake i assume.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> "I think you need to understand" .... That' called FRAUD! At least here in the states. lol
> So you think you're going to claim your car as 90% business use, but show almost $0 revenue, and a huge net loss?
> At a very minimum, thats the fastest way to an audit!
> So you better have that detailed daily log book all shiny and ready, when the feds crawl up your ass! Lol
> Good luck with that!


Before you call it Fraud I suggest you go speak to a reputable accountant with business experience. There is a difference between what is legal and what is working the rules for your favor. Don't care if you like it or not...fact is I only need to impress the CRA (your version of the IRS). And with the documentation I have provided to my tax lawyer this was his recommendation. And I have been in enough business/investment opportunities to know what most 5% use all the time.

Don't fall for what's right. Go with what's legal an can be proven black and white. After all we are not talking about huge bucks here. My last year income was just over $5,000 part time with Uber. Expenses were about that for the same time period since we add Tires and a minor scrape on my car. That makes me tax free and a write off for Uber. I have receipts for everything and it's all tracked in a spreadsheet. I also take a write down on investment losses. As any personal money I used to fund a numbered business. (Easy thing to do) will come off of personal earnings if I show a loss against the investment. Dropping 10K to my new Uber venture showed no revenue for year one. Lets hope Year 2 is better. Oh wait it's not going to profit year 2? Awwwwww that sucks. Guess I better fold it up. Still an investment loss and a tax write off. Not to mention if it was taken on a 2.5% line of credit that interest is also a write off.

So not worried about an audit. All my ventures have worked out just fine that were valued much more. In some I call audits on myself before they do.

But hey...if you want to call it fraud...well you have been reading the wrong books.


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> I think you need to understand that if 90% of my vehicle use is used to travel 20 km to work and 20 km back home. All I need to do is turn on the app during my travel. That's now driving for Uber is completely deductible. It's also completely deductible to leave the app off drive into the city wait for a ping for 5 min and turn it off. That's called driving for Uber because the downtown core is where the business is. It's all mileage for Uber based work. And 100% deductible any way you slice it. Long as I can show some sort of income. It doesn't matter if I work 5 hours or I work 5 min. I now am working. I'm just in the laws eyes being a stupid business owner hemorrhaging money.
> 
> So now 90% of my car expenses are covered under this. This offsets my regular tax paying wage and covers car expenses where if Uber doesn't exist I get nothing for my commute.
> 
> ...


" It's called creative taxes" --- aka felony tax evasion


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Luberon said:


> " It's called creative taxes" --- aka felony tax evasion


Only if proven. And you wonder why others get rich off you guys.


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## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> Only if proven. And you wonder why others get rich off you guys.


Most in the United States are, and no offense those affected (hit dog will holler), stupid.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> I think you need to understand that if 90% of my vehicle use is used to travel 20 km to work and 20 km back home. All I need to do is turn on the app during my travel. That's now driving for Uber is completely deductible. It's also completely deductible to leave the app off drive into the city wait for a ping for 5 min and turn it off. That's called driving for Uber because the downtown core is where the business is. It's all mileage for Uber based work. And 100% deductible any way you slice it. Long as I can show some sort of income. It doesn't matter if I work 5 hours or I work 5 min. I now am working. I'm just in the laws eyes being a stupid business owner hemorrhaging money.
> 
> So now 90% of my car expenses are covered under this. This offsets my regular tax paying wage and covers car expenses where if Uber doesn't exist I get nothing for my commute.
> 
> ...


One other small problem with ur scheme is ... If you keep rejecting pings every day on your 40km commute to and from your "real job", Uber will quickly deactivate you for shitty acceptance rate. :-(


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> One other small problem with ur scheme is ... If you keep rejecting pings every day on your 40km commute to and from your "real job", Uber will quickly deactivate you for shitty acceptance rate. :-(


I actually don't reject them. 9/10 I get the same route to the city and the same few riders. Long as I keep to the clock schedule it works out for all of us. Most of them are the same hours I keep. Right now I have 3 riders who try and nab me right around the same time in the same strip of road. They get an idea it's be because I use a not well traveled back road. Whoever gets on first gets the ride.

It's not perfect and I have got screwed up going to the airport. But that's a $40 run and the app goes of after that. Like I said...it works well for me.


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## TeleSki (Dec 4, 2014)

marketmark said:


> Someone processes credit cards. Someone pays for all their office space and employees...
> *David Plouffe* doesn't work for free.


I hate working for the same company that David Plouffe has a hand in.


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## Shiny (Jan 12, 2015)

I can't seem to get the guarantee. I just want them to restore the regular rates. Trust me Uber is not losing money you are. I calculated the 20% plus the rider fee. Then divided what they paid me by the total fare. We are making 68 to 75%. Mostly Uber is getting about 29% instead of 20% from total fare and rider fee. Then you have to deduct your gas and car wash. Then you still have to pay taxes.


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## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

https://uberpeople.net/threads/a-must-read-for-all-drivers-ubers-new-big-hairy-audacious-goal.12890/


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

TeleSki said:


> I hate working for the same company that David Plouffe has a hand in.


Karl Rove would be better?


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Micky Mouse would be better than either one of them. Purely political.


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

Uberdawg said:


> Micky Mouse would be better than either one of them. Purely political.


Yep! But if the truth is the reason that folks hate Plough is true, and those who hate Rove is true, as a Driver I would hope the liberal socialist tag rubs off on Travis versus the 1% need more tax cuts.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

I don't like either one of them. Both political hacks.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

And the only thing I hope rubs off on Travis is some Poison Ivy. And in the right places too.


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## Lyft4uDC (Jul 28, 2014)

di you really think uber has any expense much less loss? im pretty sure their engineers are work study who work for less than minimum wage based on just how shitty the app can be during big events.

im pretty sure their commission covers their $60/day conference rooms they book every week as "their local HQ"


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Lyft4uDC said:


> di you really think uber has any expense much less loss? im pretty sure their engineers are work study who work for less than minimum wage based on just how shitty the app can be during big events.
> 
> im pretty sure their commission covers their $60/day conference rooms they book every week as "their local HQ"


They will lose for a little while, not an overall loss but on the guarantees, until the price cuts take full effect and they will be making more than ever. I have had more $5 rides in the last two days than I had in the 4 months prior to the price cuts.

I think this may be where they get their inflated earnings projections too. One of the 5 rides took me 2 minutes to get to them, 1 minute for them to get in and 2 minutes to the stop (Yep, I timed it). So $5-$1 SRF-20% leaves me with $3.20. 2 miles total driven (including dead miles) at my expense rate is .84 which leaves me with $2.36.

Now for UberMath:

Since it took 5 minutes, you can do 20 an hour so that is $$47.20 per hour X 8 = $377.6 X 5 = $1,888 per week or $8,181 per month or $98,176 per year . Craigslist, here we come.


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

I am not sure how much money they are losing. Just reading posts around here kind of says perhaps many are not making that guarantee because they can't figure out what 1 ride average per hour means or what logged on 50 minutes an hour means. uhhh folks trying to "hide" ? I bet many are generating more rides and income than their previous average. Even by accident. Falling into ride after ride by accident. I have seen more pings for sure. 

While some are making out not driving, the sheer numbers of Drivers out there can only be a good thing for U as more and more Riders book those rides. Not to mention what they are doing to LYFT. I have taken 2 trips the last 3 weeks versus 33% of total trips before guarantee. Perhaps this is UBER figuring out how much they are going to have to pay their employees.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> "I think you need to understand" .... That' called FRAUD! At least here in the states. lol
> So you think you're going to claim your car as 90% business use, but show almost $0 revenue, and a huge net loss?
> At a very minimum, thats the fastest way to an audit!
> So you better have that detailed daily log book all shiny and ready, when the feds crawl up your ass! Lol
> Good luck with that!


I too turn on my app on the way HOME from my regular job. But I do it with every intention of taking a fare if it's reasonable. I actually picked one up the other day 2 mins from my job and going to within 3 miles of my house (I'm 20 miles from my regular job). Basically I got paid to drive home. Most nights I get one ping but often I get none. I got one one night as I was pulling in my subdivision and took it.

I DO NOT turn on the app on the way TO work as I would not be available to take a run.

If I go to the grocery store I may go online and if I get a ping great. I am more than likely to take it. I DO NOT go online on the way home with ice cream in my car as clearly I am not available to drive anywhere else.

So I agree what the driver who is online all the time while driving WITH NO INTENTION of taking a fare is doing is fraud. The difference with me is I am willing and likely to take a ping if it makes sense (still not taking them from miles away but I don't do that anyway unless there's a guarantee and I have to).

If the IRS audits me I have records of every mile taken with dates and times and they can compare that with my rides. It would show that sometimes I drive home and don't take any fares but that's because I didn't get any. There would also be the other days that I made the same drive and veered off for a fare.

I think you can be "creative" IF you are willing to take a trip now and then when you really weren't planning on it but simply thinking you can go online with no intention of accepting a ping and then deducting that mileage is not going to look good to the IRS.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> I think you need to understand that if 90% of my vehicle use is used to travel 20 km to work and 20 km back home. All I need to do is turn on the app during my travel. That's now driving for Uber is completely deductible. It's also completely deductible to leave the app off drive into the city wait for a ping for 5 min and turn it off. That's called driving for Uber because the downtown core is where the business is. It's all mileage for Uber based work. And 100% deductible any way you slice it. Long as I can show some sort of income. It doesn't matter if I work 5 hours or I work 5 min. I now am working. I'm just in the laws eyes being a stupid business owner hemorrhaging money.
> 
> So now 90% of my car expenses are covered under this. This offsets my regular tax paying wage and covers car expenses where if Uber doesn't exist I get nothing for my commute.
> 
> ...


Leaving the app off to drive into the city to work there whether for 5 mins or 5 hours is commuting. You need the app on and you need to be willing to take a fare to make those miles deductible.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> I need credit for my casino reference.... I am THAT insecure! Here's what I wrote yesterday.


I'm going to one-up you, I've made the reference long before yesterday.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

@Realityshark jan 15:



JaxBeachDriver said:


> Yes, that sounds about right.
> 
> For me, if I'm being honest, it also filled a social need. I'm a mom, and I don't work outside of the home. I was commuting to the University of Florida, but as a 32-year-old mother in a program with 18- to 22-year-olds, I'm basically invisible. I get little adult interaction outside of my family, a very small group of friends, and occasional play dates, which mostly revolves around the kids, anyway. So meeting people in my community without my kid attached to my hip was really fun and rewarding for me.
> 
> ...


It's not the same house-always-wins analogy, but...


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Our guarantees here are so low, I almost can't help but make them. In order to get to a trip an hour, there is almost no way not to beat $10/$20. $10 doesn't even result in minimum wage on Net Fares, much less Net Income, so it isn't much guarantee anyway.


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