# Got a quote on a 'hybrid' or commercial/personal policy here in AZ



## Kaz (Sep 16, 2014)

And it was awful- $9700 a year. Even the broker said that was higher than he expected. For me doing this about 12 hrs a weekend, there is no way I can be expected to pay that. AZ has very little protection and option for UBER and LYFT drivers. Broker said this is very new and there is no competition right now and this is the quote he was able to get- and apparently I am the first driver he's gotten an application from and he was probably the 10th guy I've contacted in this process. No one wants to deal with UBER drivers. So I will need to see an attorney about opening up an LLC to protect what I have in the event I'm involved in an accident. No commercial/personal auto policy is even close to being affordable here and its a joke.


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## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

No need to see an attorney for llc...at least not here in Oklahoma. I did it in about 15 minutes online. $100


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## Neighbourly (Nov 23, 2014)

Yeah, if you don't have any partners going into an llc with you then just do it online. Thanks for the local news though


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## SDUberdriver (Nov 11, 2014)

Kaz said:


> And it was awful- $9700 a year. Even the broker said that was higher than he expected. For me doing this about 12 hrs a weekend, there is no way I can be expected to pay that. AZ has very little protection and option for UBER and LYFT drivers. Broker said this is very new and there is no competition right now and this is the quote he was able to get- and apparently I am the first driver he's gotten an application from and he was probably the 10th guy I've contacted in this process. No one wants to deal with UBER drivers. So I will need to see an attorney about opening up an LLC to protect what I have in the event I'm involved in an accident. No commercial/personal auto policy is even close to being affordable here and its a joke.


_Try telling brokers you are starting a transportation business. Your focus will be airport transfers,nights out, and as directed. Here in CA , I have my TCP ,Commercial Insurance,and Airport permits. The key is DON'T say you are an Uber driver.Your commercial insurance will cover your livery transportation business._


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## Kaz (Sep 16, 2014)

I know I can establish an LLC online but I think seeing an attorney is still advisable as I need to make sure I will be able to have some protection in the event of an accident. You cant really get advice like this using websites like LegalZoom. I have access to legal counsel at my job so it won't hurt to get his opinion on some stuff. I also thought about just telling a broker that I will not be doing UBER, just kind of taxi-ing on my own but I thought that would give me an even higher rate. I may try another insurance broker to see if what youre telling me makes a difference, but I'm leary its going to help me get a more affordable rate.


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

Kaz said:


> I know I can establish an LLC online but I think seeing an attorney is still advisable as I need to make sure I will be able to have some protection in the event of an accident. You cant really get advice like this using websites like LegalZoom. I have access to legal counsel at my job so it won't hurt to get his. I also thought about just telling a broker that I will not be doing UBER, just kind of taxi-ing on my own but I thought that would give me an even higher rate. I may try another insurance broker to see if what youre telling me makes a difference, but I'm leary its going to help me get a more affordable rate.


Yeah...What SDUberdriver said is exactly what you need. Uber is considered pre-arranged...no taking hail. So the commercial passenger insurance will cover all. You are starting transportation service...period. That's all they need.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Kaz said:


> And it was awful- $9700 a year. Even the broker said that was higher than he expected. For me doing this about 12 hrs a weekend, there is no way I can be expected to pay that. AZ has very little protection and option for UBER and LYFT drivers. Broker said this is very new and there is no competition right now and this is the quote he was able to get- and apparently I am the first driver he's gotten an application from and he was probably the 10th guy I've contacted in this process. No one wants to deal with UBER drivers. So I will need to see an attorney about opening up an LLC to protect what I have in the event I'm involved in an accident. No commercial/personal auto policy is even close to being affordable here and its a joke.


LLC to protect assets
now i know using your personal insurance is wrong, but if you get into an accident, the worse case would be if you had a passenger that you picked up,and they hot hurt. But doesnt Uber's insurance cover in a situation like that so that they wont come after your assets? Plus they would have to be seriously hurt, or maybe even death, to go over the $1,000,000 coverage uber has now right?

or give me a scenario of an accident, that somebody would come for your personal items/property/money


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## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> or give me a scenario of an accident, and somebody would come for your personal items/property/money


You take that risk with your personal driving every day. Only, in the case of Uber, if you have a pax and the accident is your fault, the risk is twice as high that both parties will sue for as much as they can. Umbrella policy would help in personal situations.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

ReviTULize said:


> You take that risk with your personal driving every day. Only, in the case of Uber, if you have a pax and the accident is your fault, the risk is twice as high that both parties will sue for as much as they can. Umbrella policy would help in personal situations.


Right, so basically somebody would have to die or turn into a paraplegic for them to sue for over $1mil that Uber covers?

And yeah for personal insurance. I guess you could give 5 of your friends a ride,you hit a Bently or Rolly royce,and all 5 get hurt. Most people sue at most to the limit of the insurance policy. I mean wants the point of suing for 2mil when you cant get it? The only guaranteed money you'll get is the limit the insurance will pay


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite (Nov 11, 2014)

ReviTULize said:


> No need to see an attorney for llc...at least not here in Oklahoma. I did it in about 15 minutes online. $100


Damn. LLCs run at least 5 times that in The People's Republic of Massachusetts.


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2014)

Kaz said:


> ....So I will need to see an attorney about opening up an LLC to protect what I have in the event I'm involved in an accident. No commercial/personal auto policy is even close to being affordable here and its a joke.


I am not sure what you envisage about opening up an LLC. Putting the car into an LLC, so that if they sue the "owner" of the car, they can only go against the assets of the LLC ? That would seem not to be effective to shield you, as they could still personally sue you as being the driver of the car, and go against your personal assets, home, etc. Can you please clarify ?


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## AmberLamps (Oct 29, 2014)

Yea what advantage is creating an LLC going to do in the case of an accident?


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

DCUber said:


> I am not sure what you envisage about opening up an LLC. Putting the car into an LLC, so that if they sue the "owner" of the car, they can only go against the assets of the LLC ? That would seem not to be effective to shield you, as they could still personally sue you as being the driver of the car, and go against your personal assets, home, etc. Can you please clarify ?


normally LLC means they can only sue the business. Meaning they can only get bank accounts in the business name,and proptery assets in the business name. As for Uber, theroretically you could have 0 assets for the business. Just put the car in your name and money into your personall bank account,and put no money into any account with the LLC name on it. LLC type corporation is you're working in duty of the company, meaning if you get sued they cannot sue you for any of your personal assets (home,car,cash).They can only get what the business has
In this case nothing, and only being used for a name. So Then you could get sued for $10mil, let your LLC go bankrupt,but you pay nothing(gov't would pay $$ if they pay anything at all). Then just go out and create another LLC and repeat the process.

Not being able to sue for your personal belongings is the whole idea behind an LLC, which is what the LL stands for Limited Liabilty...........

People can still try to sue you personally for anything,whether they prevail is a different story. But in most situations you wont be held liable for what you do while working in duty of the company


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

It is my understanding, you can not mix personal money and corporate money (LLC). Any attorrney will see theres no activity in biz account and follow the money. This is called "piercing the corporate shield". I'm not even sure uber would pay an LLC if vehicle and insurance is supposed to be in drivers name. Will be interesting to see how this works out. Please keep us posted.


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## XavierKnight (Dec 6, 2014)

Yes Uber will pay an LLC. You have to make that designation through your Uber Vault.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite (Nov 11, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> normally LLC means they can only sue the business. Meaning they can only get bank accounts in the business name,and proptery assets in the business name. As for Uber, theroretically you could have 0 assets for the business. Just put the car in your name and money into your personall bank account,and put no money into any account with the LLC name on it. LLC type corporation is you're working in duty of the company, meaning if you get sued they cannot sue you for any of your personal assets (home,car,cash).They can only get what the business has
> In this case nothing, and only being used for a name. So Then you could get sued for $10mil, let your LLC go bankrupt,but you pay nothing(gov't would pay $$ if they pay anything at all). Then just go out and create another LLC and repeat the process.
> 
> Not being able to sue for your personal belongings is the whole idea behind an LLC, which is what the LL stands for Limited Liabilty...........
> ...


This is actually dangerously incorrect. Please read this article for more information regarding LLCs:

http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2...llc-to-avoid-personal-liability-in-a-lawsuit/


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2014)

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> This is actually dangerously incorrect. Please read this article for more information regarding LLCs:
> 
> http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2...llc-to-avoid-personal-liability-in-a-lawsuit/


This further affirms what I was alluding to above in Post #11. To make it more clear as an example:

-) If you and your brother jointly own the car that you drive for Uber, and then while you are driving you cause an accident that was your fault, they can sue and come after the personal assets of both you and your brother.

-) If you and your brother form an LLC in which you are joint owners of the company, and it is the LLC that owns the car that you drive for Uber, your brother's personal assets could be off the hook from a lawsuit. But your personal assets will not be shielded because you are still the one doing the driving when the accident took place.

So creating an LLC will not really help you if you are an Uber DRIVER. If you are only the owner, but not the driver, of an Uber car, may be.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> This is actually dangerously incorrect. Please read this article for more information regarding LLCs:
> 
> http://www.litigationandtrial.com/2...llc-to-avoid-personal-liability-in-a-lawsuit/


Chances are you will be sued along with the entity. Usually there's nothing to automatically stop someone from adding you personally to a lawsuit. You can then try to get removed pre-trial as a party, but good luck with that. And even if you are not found liable, the cost of going through trial to get to that point can eat you alive. Even a trial victory can be financially devastating.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite (Nov 11, 2014)

basically if your LLC is just you and your car, it's a joke.


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## nuhuxi (Dec 21, 2014)

I have been driving for 7 weeks. This conversation is enough to make me drop the $500/week gross that I am generating.


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## ElectroFuzz (Jun 10, 2014)

Kaz said:


> And it was awful- $9700 a year. Even the broker said that was higher than he expected. For me doing this about 12 hrs a weekend, there is no way I can be expected to pay that. AZ has very little protection and option for UBER and LYFT drivers. Broker said this is very new and there is no competition right now and this is the quote he was able to get- and apparently I am the first driver he's gotten an application from and he was probably the 10th guy I've contacted in this process. No one wants to deal with UBER drivers. So I will need to see an attorney about opening up an LLC to protect what I have in the event I'm involved in an accident. No commercial/personal auto policy is even close to being affordable here and its a joke.


From another post:
Agent is located in the Scottsdale Airpark
http://goncp.com/uber-insurance/

The guy got it for $4100 a year.
I don't know the details.


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## TheInsuranceGuy1776 (Mar 24, 2015)

Hello Everyone,


Let me start out by telling everyone that I am an insurance agent. I work for a brokerage that specializes in public livery and hopefully can help clear up some of the confusion. As far as I understand it, no personal insurance policy at this time will cover ride-share drivers. As soon as you accept money for transporting people, the personal policy becomes void and will not cover you, your vehicle, your passengers, the damage to other peoples property, and leave you liable! I have read over Uber's insurance policy and again as I interpret it, would not be comfortable using it myself. What scares me the most is (pulled directly from Uber's application to the PaPUC), "During the time that an Operator is available but between trips, most personal auto insurance will provide coverage,"..."This policy is contingent to a Operator's personal insurance policy, meaning it will only pay if the personal auto insurance completely declines or pays zero." That reads at best, very ambiguously. I can tell you that if your personal insurance finds out you are trying to file a claim and were on the clock...you will be left high and dry. Most rideshare drivers I speak to are doing this as a moonlight type job to make a few extra bucks. To me, that means that they need their vehicle for other activities as well, like a day job or taking the kids to school. If you have a claim and are left without a vehicle because two insurance companies are playing hot potato with your insurance policy, that will do you no good.



The way I see it there are a few options:


Roll the dice. Hope you never have a claim. 

This is not the way to do business. You need the coverage. Your family needs the coverage. Your passengers need the coverage. If you have a serious claim, you the driver can be held liable and you can bet your bottom dollar you will be named in the suit. Successful or not, it will cost you money and time.


Purchase a Commercial Auto Policy

This would be the equivalent of the type of policy a taxi or limo driver carries. It will cover you, your passengers, your property and damage to other peoples property. This type of policy, while extensive in its coverage, can be very costly and for a part time driver, can offset the benefit of rideshare driving in the first place. 


Purchase a Hybrid Policy

As of earlier this month our agency is offering a policy by an A rated insurance carrier, that will offer coverage for rideshare drivers both on and off the clock. It will cover you before the app is turned on, while on duty, after the app is turned off, when your vehicle is parked in your driveway, when you are taking the kids to soccer practice and on the way home from the grocery store. The best part is....it is affordable! While it will be more expensive than a traditional personal auto policy it will still be more affordable than a commercial policy and offer the same type of protection. At this point in time it only being offered in Pennsylvania but in the coming months we will be writing in: Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Wisconsin, Wyoming.


If you would like more information on this new product, please PM or email me with your contact information and I would be happy to continue this conversation.


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

TheInsuranceGuy1776 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Let me start out by telling everyone that I am an insurance agent. I work for a brokerage that specializes in public livery and hopefully can help clear up some of the confusion. As far as I understand it, no personal insurance policy at this time will cover ride-share drivers. As soon as you accept money for transporting people, the personal policy becomes void and will not cover you, your vehicle, your passengers, the damage to other peoples property, and leave you liable! I have read over Uber's insurance policy and again as I interpret it, would not be comfortable using it myself. What scares me the most is (pulled directly from Uber's application to the PaPUC), "During the time that an Operator is available but between trips, most personal auto insurance will provide coverage,"..."This policy is contingent to a Operator's personal insurance policy, meaning it will only pay if the personal auto insurance completely declines or pays zero." That reads at best, very ambiguously. I can tell you that if your personal insurance finds out you are trying to file a claim and were on the clock...you will be left high and dry. Most rideshare drivers I speak to are doing this as a moonlight type job to make a few extra bucks. To me, that means that they need their vehicle for other activities as well, like a day job or taking the kids to school. If you have a claim and are left without a vehicle because two insurance companies are playing hot potato with your insurance policy, that will do you no good.
> 
> ...


Very well put. My question, regarding this and any other hybrid product that comes available, is will this hybrid product be valid as a commercial policy. I'm guessing that the amount of coverage would not satisfy most airport requirements, but other than that... would the hybrid policy work as a commercial policy?


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

TheInsuranceGuy1776 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Let me start out by telling everyone that I am an insurance agent. I work for a brokerage that specializes in public livery and hopefully can help clear up some of the confusion. As far as I understand it, no personal insurance policy at this time will cover ride-share drivers. As soon as you accept money for transporting people, the personal policy becomes void and will not cover you, your vehicle, your passengers, the damage to other peoples property, and leave you liable! .


I believe I asked you yesterday in another thread you were spammin, er uh replying to. You have never heard of Metromile? That is not a personal insurance company?


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