# The Critical Points: Why I now avoid ride-hailing services whenever I can



## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Interesting article. And mostly on point.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/critical-points-why-i-avoid-ride-hailing-services/
And as I've liked to state in other threads, for every PAXHole out there there are 2 Uber Dick Drivers running around:

*Driver games*​_While the games drivers can play come in a wide variety - ranging from devious to simple - all of them can make your ride-hailing experience expensive or inefficient. My least favorite is a driver that does not want to pick you up and will just sit in a single place until you cancel - at which point you are hit with a cancellation fee. This wastes an incredible amount of time, and then you start all over trying to find another driver. Drivers can also go in circuitous routes or hit you with bogus cleaning fees._​​_And I'm not the first TPG staffer to be fed up with this too, as Brian Kelly had enough last year after falling victim to these cancellation scams._​​_Now, I know there are thousands of hard-working drivers out there who are hustling every day to make a pay check, and they do it in a friendly and professional manner. *It's a shame a select few spoil it for everyone.*_​


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Not excusing this behavior but if you pay drivers shit and have cancel fees pay _*more*_ than a minimum fare, can we really expect a workforce of professionals??

_My experience riding a train, taking a bus, calling a taxi or renting a car is now vastly superior to using a ride-hailing service._
That is yet another nightmare scenario for Uber and Lyft. More riders breaking out of simple habit and becoming "woke" to these issues. Some drivers might have no other options but in many places, riders sure do.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

https://thepointsguy.com/news/critical-points-why-i-avoid-ride-hailing-services/
When ride-hailing services like Uber and Lyft debuted, they were revolutionary in transforming how millions completed ground travel. These and other (smaller) providers broke a monopoly of taxi companies being the only choice for short- to medium-length transport needs that weren't otherwise served by public transportation. Up-front pricing and cashless transactions gave customers a distinct advantage over the typical taxi ride, which could be fraught with cash-only payments, scams and little recourse if things went wrong.

I used Uber and Lyft for hundreds of rides over the last few years, but my tolerance for these services - from booking to ride completion - has reached a limit. I now find myself using public transportation, renting a car or taking traditional taxis over ride-hailing companies on almost every trip I take. Here are the aspects of the experience that have led me to look elsewhere.

*Cost*
When Uber launched, I remember that it was distinctly more affordable than taxi rides - in some cases by a wide margin. However, when I look at ride prices now, I rarely see good deals compared to hailing a traditional taxi or - my latest strategy - renting a car. TPG staff routinely travel to our parent company's headquarters in Fort Mill, SC, which is roughly a 30-minute drive from the Charlotte (CLT) airport. Recent prices I've observed for the one-way trip are between $30-$45, depending on traffic - which can be bad at certain times of the day.

That means for a three-day visit to Charlotte, you are looking at a minimum of $60 (likely more) for just the round-trip service from the airport to the hotel. Then you add in other car needs for getting to dinner, from the hotel to the office and back, and any other places you need to go. The costs can quickly mount. On the other hand, I can rent a car from CLT for ~$30 all-in per day (or cheaper), saving the company money and giving me autonomy to travel and go where I need, when I need to. I also get a large vehicle using my National or Hertz status and tow 3-5 other employees around with me, truly making ride-hailing services in this scenario a bad deal.

*Costs are no longer cheap for Uber or Lyft,* and when you add in things like surge pricing, it quickly becomes unaffordable.

*Airport pick-ups*
Look no further than the new situation at LAX to see how ride-hailing services are being treated by airport authorities. Whether it's a strong taxi lobby or the inability of an airport's infrastructure to accommodate increased traffic, the pick-up situation at dozens of airports around the country make for a truly miserable experience when trying to get a ride after landing.

When I land, I am looking for maximum efficiency to get out of the airport and to my hotel or meeting place. I don't have time to hunt for pick-up areas that require a 15-minute walk (Atlanta) or a shuttle (Los Angeles) to reach. You then have the mass chaos areas like I experienced this week in Las Vegas, where no one seemed to know what was going on or what to do. The posted rules for a driver to text you a stall number before walking to the car were clearly not being followed.

At airports, ride-hailing services are now treated like second-class citizens. I believe an airport should do whatever it can to make the passenger experience a pleasant one and memorable for all the right reasons, but time and time again, we see them take the opposite path, making the pick-up experience as miserable and as inefficient as possible.

That being said, I recently had one very efficient airport experience, one that brought hope for the future. At Chicago-Midway (MDW), if you want a Lyft, you join a single file line, put your destination in the app and receive a code. You then just give your code to the next Lyft driver that arrives, and they take you to your destination. No waiting games, no looking for your specific car and no driver cancellations.

You know another name for this scenario that works very well? A taxi rank.

*Wait times*
I have found the driver arrival estimations in both the Lyft and Uber apps so inaccurate that I call a ride before ever departing my hotel room, and I anticipate double of whatever the app suggests. When you are in big cities and call for a ride, wait times can skyrocket beyond what the app says if your driver needs to go around the block or navigate traffic and one-way streets to find you. This often leads me on a hunt to walk towards my driver only to have them drive past me and on to another street - which requires us to go around the block to go in the intended direction.

It makes it very difficult to plan a departure, and again, it drives down efficiency - one of the main tenets of these services. There's nothing more frustrating than staring at the app when it says your driver is five minutes away, waiting five minutes, then seeing that the driver has not yet moved in your direction.

*Driver games*
While the games drivers can play come in a wide variety - ranging from devious to simple - all of them can make your ride-hailing experience expensive or inefficient. My least favorite is a driver that does not want to pick you up and will just sit in a single place until you cancel - at which point you are hit with a cancellation fee. This wastes an incredible amount of time, and then you start all over trying to find another driver. Drivers can also go in circuitous routes or hit you with bogus cleaning fees.

And I'm not the first TPG staffer to be fed up with this too, as Brian Kelly had enough last year after falling victim to these cancellation scams.

Now, I know there are thousands of hard-working drivers out there who are hustling every day to make a pay check, and they do it in a friendly and professional manner. It's a shame a select few spoil it for everyone.

*Customer service*
Each time I've contacted Uber or Lyft with an issue, I rarely receive a satisfactory resolution. Instead, I get a generic email with something along the lines of "customer feedback is important" and "the issue will be addressed". Rarely do I get any credit back, and often I don't have time to continue fighting for whatever has occurred.

Lately, this is the same case for me over at UberEATS. I've started using my monthly Uber credits from The Platinum Card® from American Express with UberEATS, simply because I no longer want to ride with Uber. Often I get a wrong order, or the delivery time is an hour longer than stated. There's little recourse and no improvement. This may be outside of Uber's control and the restaurant's fault, but that's something that Uber should take up with the vendor and not place the onus on the customer.

*Bottom line*
My experience riding a train, taking a bus, calling a taxi or renting a car is now vastly superior to using a ride-hailing service. In Chicago, I fly to Midway (MDW) and take a 29-minute subway into the city. In New York, I fly to Newark (EWR) and ride the train to Penn Station, where I can take the subway anywhere in the city for $2.75 and no traffic. In Charlotte (and pretty much anywhere else I go), I rent a car. I save money, avoid the pick-up hassle and can go the second I want to go compared to using ride-hailing apps around the destination.

Simply put, I've found these services are now too much of a headache, too expensive and too inefficient for them to make sense for the majority of my travels.


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## KD_LA (Aug 16, 2017)

jocker12 said:


> *Driver games*


Players giving us all a bad name.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

"This often leads me on a hunt to walk towards my driver only to have them drive past me and on to another street - which requires us to go around the block to go in the intended direction."

How about be at the pin and stay put?



KD_LA said:


> Players giving us all a bad name.


Good. I want uber and lyft to go down in flames.

Drivers have been getting ****ed for years. Now it's the paxholes turn.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

mrpjfresh said:


> Not excusing this behavior but if you pay drivers shit and have cancel fees pay _*more*_ than a minimum fare, can we really expect a workforce of professionals??


_"Your Honor, the reason I stand here today before the Court,
Accused of Theft
is because I chose a Career Path of Least Resistance offering
0nly a drivers license Credential and securing 
a position as a 
Low Skill 
Low Wage 
third-party 
Entry Level gig worker"










"I Blame Dara Khosrowshahi, Travis Kalanick,
Uber Stockholders, Wall Street and Passengers for my
Descent into antisocial behavior "_


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

ive done like 50 rides in my life and never had a driver try to pull a cancellation job on me, but that's probably because im not being a dumbass rider expecting the world from my driver or making requests from stupid places


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## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

Sounds like someone had a bad Uber experience. They should try pool!


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## TCar (Aug 4, 2019)

I have done bout 30 or so u/l as a pax. Never had issue with shuffle or other. But, unlike most pax's, I am always toes to the curb for ride. Solution for most pax "TOES TO THE CURB" generates best results! 
( I am sure that cities and airports are different beast, though. Also, try to avoid both of those as a driver.)


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

TCar said:


> I have done bout 30 or so u/l as a pax. Never had issue with shuffle or other. But, unlike most pax's, I am always toes to the curb for ride. Solution for most pax "TOES TO THE CURB" generates best results!
> ( I am sure that cities and airports are different beast, though. Also, try to avoid both of those as a driver.)


Yea, I'm in the same boat. And it's not hard: 1) Put pin in right spot. Sometimes means scoping your surroundings so you can put the pin where driver can easily pick you up! 2) Be ready ..... it's really not hard.

Uber/Lyft should bump the waiting time $$$. That would solve a lot of issues as the driver would get paid enough to wait and the PAX would want to be there ready so they don't incur additional fees for wait time.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

I need to bring up a point. When Uber and Lyft launched in most places (around 2014) the rates were very close to what Taxis charged. At that time, the drivers made money. The passengers received an incredible product and no one ever complained about the rates when I was driving back then.

Then Uber and Lyft got into a race to the bottom and dropped the rates 4 times within a 12 month period. They dropped the rates to a level that most drivers were not making money. The good drivers left and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th tier drivers came in and the cycle was repeated over and over again as drivers find out within 60-90 days that they can't make money and are broker than when they started. Driver's can't afford to drive anymore because they are not making enough money to even maintain and put gas in their vehicle. 

So many Uber vehicles were repossessed that it caused the Uber auto finance program to go out of business because the driver's were not even making enough money to make the car payment when it was direct deducted from their inadequate Uber earnings. 

The driver's that are left now drive cars so small that most passengers need to twist like a pretzel just to get into and out of one of these tiny vehicles. The problem is that with the amount Lyft and Uber and paying; the only way for the driver to stay driving is to have one of these tiny vehicles. Most of them are old and not worth more than about $4000. But that's what you get now because after all everyone wants a cheap ride. These tiny vehicles are constantly overloaded and are unsafe when they are overloaded. There is a maximum weight sticker on the door jamb of every vehicle. Yet everyone ignores it because after all everyone wants a cheap ride.

Now Lyft and Uber have started raising the prices and the customers are saying they will start using a taxi. Please do start using a taxi. The line forms to the right. My taxi driver friends will be happy to take you anywhere that you want to go. 

The bottom line is that things cost money and must be paid for. No business can continue to operate at a loss. The bills are coming due and the days of subsidized below cost Lyft and Uber rides are quickly coming to an end. I predict that Lyft and Uber's business will decrease by about 35% as those money loosing cheap fares are eliminated and those riders go back to public transportation, riding a bike or walking. What's left will be the core business that will pay a fare pretty close to, or slightly exceeding taxi rates. And that's where is should have been all along.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Then Uber and Lyft got into a race to the bottom and dropped the rates 4 times within a 12 month period.


I completely agree, but there are a few more dimensions to their behavior.

Cutting rates allowed them to slightly reduce previous prices (previous as the last before every cut) and that attracted new cheaper riders. At the same time, it allowed them to increase their corporate retaining percentage.
So at the end of the day, by hurting their partners and claim it was not because of Uber but because of an internal market balance mechanism, rideshare companies were able to report market share increase and revenue increase.

Also, because the self-driving cars developers and the car manufacturers that decided to finance them, recently realized how self-driving cars is becoming a more distant (IMO impossible) dream, but self-driving cars deployment had in theory cheaper rates and lower costs involved, the rideshare companies needed to act now in order to break the drivers as a group regarding the revenue every single individual driving his asset for rideshare, would have asked for.

If rideshare companies would have had self-driving cars available today (as proof that those cars are already here!!!), they would have leveled the rates for both services, with a human driver and without (supposedly for a real competition between the two), continue to subsidize the self-driving cars service for a while and force all the drivers to give up because of their continue and significant losses.

Unfortunately for them, an employee classification for their drivers it would accelerate their fall and bury both rideshare "platforms".


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Now Lyft and Uber have started raising the prices and the customers are saying they will start using a taxi. Please do start using a taxi. The line forms to the right. My taxi driver friends will be happy to take you anywhere that you want to go.


*Looks around as everyone is staring at him*

OK thanks Bob, Thanks friend, his phone number is 407- 555- (LOL JK BOB)

I will say, it's already happening. Numbers are solid and it's already getting easier to get passengers even from the hip night clubs by simply being there and being closer in price, and sometimes cheaper...

When the price advantage goes away completely here (in orlando) uber's business is going to get gutted.

After-all who would call a uber to here?










When uber/lyft costs more money and you have to wait for them to show up, and there's a line of taxis ready to go?

This pic?

It's not even the airport, it's one of the theme park stands (Universal studios)

(And yes i will sit at the theme park cab stands at closing time, cause the theme parks close 365 days a year and it's a pretty big rush of people, often big enough to get a small surge going)


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> ive done like 50 rides in my life and never had a driver try to pull a cancellation job on me, but that's probably because im not being a dumbass rider expecting the world from my driver or making requests from stupid places


If you're a current Uber driver or a ex driver you know all tricks and games some drivers play, As a rider I had probably one driver that was either lost or deliberately taking the longer route to my destination, Driver changed his sense of direction quick after I told him I use to be a Uber driver...lol


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> When uber/lyft costs more money and you have to wait for them to show up, and there's a line of taxis ready to go?


One of the more moronic posters here once tried to convince me that when an event in a large US city broke, Uber was on double-triple-secret-surge pricing, it was cold and throngs of people were standing around waiting for their Uber cars while a long queue of taxicabs sat unused.

His first problem was that he was trying to bullshit a bullshitter. You can NOT do that.


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## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

The author of that article is confused, and did poor research on prices.... And I'd love to see those raised prices he speaks of... In the last 2 years I've taken 2 pay cuts. So ummmm do your research before putting it out there dummy.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Dekero said:


> The author of that article is confused, and did poor research on prices.... And I'd love to see those raised prices he speaks of... In the last 2 years I've taken 2 pay cuts. So ummmm do your research before putting it out there dummy.


The fact that the riders are paying more, closer to the cab prices, doesn't necessarily mean the rideshare drivers make more. It means the rideshare companies lowered the drivers' rates and raised their own cut. A lot.
Take a look at this - https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-thinks-it-deserves-a-71-take-rate.362069/


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## Riley3262019 (Mar 26, 2019)

Dekero said:


> The author of that article is confused, and did poor research on prices.... And I'd love to see those raised prices he speaks of... In the last 2 years I've taken 2 pay cuts. So ummmm do your research before putting it out there dummy.


He also placed the blame in the wrong spot. Driver behavior is directly correlated to how much they are paid. I will go on a limp to state that most drivers do this gig because they desperately need the money because if they don't they wouldn't knowingly depreciate their assets precariously and drive strangers around for cheap. Riders should direct their angst to Uber and Lyft, this will be the most efficient way to prod these two behemoths to do better. In the end, if you are stuck in the middle of nowhere, the chance of getting a rideshare is higher than a traditional taxi. Rideshare serves a unique purpose in the transportation mix, the app companies are the ones that need to temper their greed.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Riley3262019 said:


> Driver behavior is directly correlated to how much they are paid.


.... by Uber and Lyft, not by the riders, correct?

By the way, both companies take advantage of this convenient triangle where drivers and riders end up blaming each other for different things, but *the main problem is the frame created by the companies*.

The author also writes - "Now, I know there are thousands of hard-working drivers out there who are hustling every day to make a pay check, and they do it in a friendly and professional manner. It's a shame *a select few spoil it for everyone*"


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> ive done like 50 rides in my life and never had a driver try to pull a cancellation job on me, but that's probably because im not being a dumbass rider expecting the world from my driver or making requests from stupid places


I've never had a driver play games. They show up when the app says and get me to my destination. And I can't believe the author of the article would really take a bus over an Uber.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

KD_LA said:


> Players giving us all a bad name.


All the Good People QUIT !

LACK OF PAY !


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> One of the more moronic posters here once tried to convince me that when an event in a large US city broke, Uber was on double-triple-secret-surge pricing, it was cold and throngs of people were standing around waiting for their Uber cars while a long queue of taxicabs sat unused.
> 
> His first problem was that he was trying to bullshit a bullshitter. You can NOT do that.


People WILL walk up and task taxis for a price quote/ flat rate price.

"How much to get to 29th st?"

"Uhh... $25?"

"Uber says $15"

"OK then $20"

"You take credit?"

"Visa, mastercard, amex, discover, ect ect"

you'd be shocked... For $5.00 less i'd do it (if the customer was right in front of me asking, no driving to pickup, no risking a no-show ect) just because... fairly often it will hit the point i WILL negotiate on prices, not like the olden days where uber was $10 and taxis was $30 and it's like... hell nope...

Honestly it's hitting the point where the uber prices (the customer pays) aren't that far off the mark.

I had one this week from a hotel with a cab stand to the airport. (should be $42+ tip)

"Uber is quoting me $37"

"OK sure, why not, a little light but not unreasonable, i can take cash or credit" i reply. Load their luggage for them and we are off.

We get to the airport and the dude pulls out 3 $20 and asks for $15 back.

Do the math there, i agreed to $37, he gives me $45 and that comes to _just over_ the meter rate.

The differential (in customer price) is slipping away. I'm very tempted to make up a sign "ask me about price matching uber"


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

jocker12 said:


> ~$30 all-in per day (or cheaper), saving the company money and giving me autonomy to travel and go where I need, when I need to. I also get a large vehicle using my National or Hertz status and tow 3-5 other employees around with me, truly making ride-hailing services in this scenario a bad deal.


Where are you getting a rental car for $30 a day, "all in" in Charlotte? I work for one of the largest companies in the world and we have all the memberships with all of the car rental companies and the price I am paying is over $50 a day.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> The differential (in customer price) is slipping away. I'm very *tempted* to make up a sign "ask me about price matching uber"


 (emphasis added)

Tempted? I *have* a sign. It reads "I will meet or beat any Uber/Lyft 'up front pricing' quote to National Airport. Show me your quote to National Airport and I will meet it or beat it. I may be able to meet or beat quotes for other trips. Ask me."

This is an oversimplification, but, what I posted are the main points. Due to taxes and fees in the Capital of Your Nation, Uber and the cab are about the same on the short and mediocre trips. If there is even a mild surge (where the customer pays a multiplier but Uber/Lyft give the driver nothing), the cab is less. More and more people in this market are starting to realise this.

There is a four dollar tax on all trips to and from National or Dulles Airports, here. This allows the cab at least to meet the Uber/Lyft price from the parts of the city where most business is done to National Airport. The cab is more on trips FROM National Airport. This is because the driver pays a toll to enter the queue that he can charge back to his customer. On some of the shorter trips from there, though, the cab is about the same.

Uber/Lyft are less expensive on the longer trips, but, if the surge hits 1,7, it is about the same as a cab. if it hits 1,9, the cab always costs less.

GF and I went to the hockey last night (ALLONS HABS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







). I could not get a cab from my home to the arena, so I was stuck with UberX. I paid nineteen and change to get there. We got a cab off the street from there. The meter read seventeen and change. That seventeen and change INCLUDED the dollar extra for the second passenger. The UberX driver that we got
was sub-standard. The vehicle was acceptable, but, the driver was less than the best. The cab and driver we got back to the house was very good. I tipped him five dollars on top of the fare. As a result, I paid three dollars more, INCLUDING tip, for a far better product than what Uber rendered unto me.

I should add that just for fun, I checked Uber's "up front pricing" for the trip back. It wanted twenty one and change. The cab's meter BEAT Uber's price by almost four bananas. With a good tip, I paid only one dollar more and likely got a better product, as my experiences with UberX, or late, have ranged from somewhat less than satisfactory to downright horrid.

More and more people are discovering what I have known about Uber for some time. While people never did stop using cabs in the Capital of Your Nation, more and more people are coming back to them or are using them for the first time.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

jocker12 said:


> I completely agree, but there are a few more dimensions to their behavior.
> 
> Cutting rates allowed them to slightly reduce previous prices (previous as the last before every cut) and that attracted new cheaper riders. At the same time, it allowed them to increase their corporate retaining percentage.
> So at the end of the day, by hurting their partners and claim it was not because of Uber but because of an internal market balance mechanism, rideshare companies were able to report market share increase and revenue increase.
> ...


Bah! Don't be such a Chicken Little. Because EVERYBODY understands that lower fares equals more money. Uber Math works every time!


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## L DaVinci (Oct 26, 2019)

DriverMark said:


> Interesting article. And mostly on point.
> 
> https://thepointsguy.com/news/critical-points-why-i-avoid-ride-hailing-services/
> And as I've liked to state in other threads, for every PAXHole out there there are 2 Uber Dick Drivers running around:
> ...


I'm an Uber driver and never had used Uber as a pax, I prefer to use an old fashioned taxi, I know from personal experience that many Uber drivers are a wreck waiting to happen.


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## chris.nella2 (Aug 29, 2018)

https://thepointsguy.com/news/critical-points-why-i-avoid-ride-hailing-services/


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

chris.nella2 said:


> https://thepointsguy.com/news/critical-points-why-i-avoid-ride-hailing-services/


So is the PAY !


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## Iann (Oct 17, 2017)

chris.nella2 said:


> https://thepointsguy.com/news/critical-points-why-i-avoid-ride-hailing-services/


Some good ol Angel Dust and rideshare driving.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

L DaVinci said:


> I'm an Uber driver and never had used Uber as a pax, I prefer to use an old fashioned taxi, I know from personal experience that many Uber drivers are a wreck waiting to happen.


GF wanted to go to a hockey game. The Canadiens came to play the Capitals, so, as I have been a Canadiens fan since I was a child, I took her to that.

It is difficult to get a cab where I live in the City. I tried both Uber Taxi (available, here) and Curb. There were no cabs available, so I was stuck with UberX.

The car was acceptable. It was in satisfactory mechanical condition and clean enough. The driver was bad. He did not know where he was going, he was a poor driver, He almost rear ended three cars and was alternatively stomping on the throttle and the brake. He was yakking on his telephone for half the trip. Hands-free is legal, here, but, still, it is distracting. I wanted to get out and summon another Uber car or try a cab, again, but GF did not want to get out, so I suffered it. This was one of the better UberX rides that I have received. The "up front pricing" quote was nineteen dollars and change.

After the game, we got a cab on the street. The cab was clean and mechanically acceptable. The driver was polite. He knew where he was going. He drove carefully and safely. He was not on his telephone. The meter read seventeen dollars and change when we got home. This was INCLUDING the extra dollar that cabs here can charge if there is more than one passenger. Thus, it was about two dollars less than the ride there. When we got into the cab, just for farts and belches, I checked Uber's "up front price". It was twenty one and change. Thus, the cab's meter, with the EXTRA DOLLAR, was FOUR dollars less than Uber's "up front pricing" quote.

I did tip the cab driver five dollars. The Uber driver did not get a tip, due to his poor driving and inability even to follow the GPS that he was hugging. His yakking on the telephone did not help him, either. I wanted to say something to him, but, GF did not want me to say anything. This was her first hockey game, so, I did not want to do anything to spoil it for her.

The above is not atypical. In my recent trips, we did have one baseball game at Nationals Park where the UberX trip to the park was good and the cab trip back was HORRID. The UberX driver got a five dollar in-application tip. The cab driver got no tip. His car was filthy, he smelled, the cab smelled and he was yakking on his telephone the whole way. He could not follow the GPS that he was hugging. The only reason that we did not get out of his cab is that his was the only one that we could find. UberX wanted forty dollars. His meter read just under half that. I have noted this misadventure in previous posts on these Boards. As a rule, though, the cab back is far better than the UberX to the venue.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

Hey I can make more money of a cancel fee than I can taking a rider down the street. Is the thinking, that gets them to do this stuff. I often say in Orlando the minimum for the ride should be $7 dollars to the driver for under 2 miles anything over that it goes up. They need to go to a flat service and more of the bs 65 dollars going to the port it should be 86 dollars with 80 going to the driver


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

DriverMark said:


> Interesting article. And mostly on point.
> 
> https://thepointsguy.com/news/critical-points-why-i-avoid-ride-hailing-services/
> And as I've liked to state in other threads, for every PAXHole out there there are 2 Uber Dick Drivers running around:
> ...


Wtf! Not here to make excuses for crappy drivers but, please know drivers put up with more crap than pax's ever imagine.

Pax like you being willing in the first place to use a service that underpays drivers cannot be overlooked & the gall to mention how cancellations wastes YOUR time-PRICELESS!


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

IR12 said:


> Wtf! Not here to make excuses for crappy drivers but, please know drivers put up with more crap than pax's ever imagine.
> 
> Pax like you being willing in the first place to use a service that underpays drivers cannot be overlooked & the gall to mention how cancellations wastes YOUR time-PRICELESS!


Cancellations do waste time.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

jocker12 said:


> The author also writes - "Now, I know there are thousands of hard-working drivers out there who are hustling every day to make a pay check, and they do it in a friendly and professional manner. It's a shame *a select few spoil it for everyone*"


The author's main complaint seems to me to be price. As a business class pax he seems to me t0o be overly price conscious given he most likely doesn't have to pay for most of the rides he discusses in the article to begin with. I know other people have different experience than mine but my anecdotal experience with business class pax is that they almost never tip, and I give a lot of them. They're like Spirit airline travelers that way. One once gave me a decent cash tip and I asked him why so few business class traveler's tended to tip and he said he suspects that it's uber doesn't make it easy with what he uses for a receipt to file his business expenses, which I guess sort of makes sense. Not sure though as it's been a while since that ride, and since I've taken an uber as a pax.

And see that seems like an idiotic lost opportunity right there because that's a large sub-segment of pax. They should itemize receipts in a way that makes it convenient for business travelers to claim the cost. There is absolutely no reason why business travelers shouldn't be tipping the maximum amount their company will reimburse. None. Partly because tipping for personal service is the norm, but also because it gives their company a reputation as either cheap, or a company which hires cheap employees.

Two of his complaints are Airport management issues, they're treating rideshare companies roughly which causes time delays, and the hassle of connecting with a specific driver. The first is an airport management complaint and the second could be as well, with the rideshare footing some of the blame as well.

He complains about time which is a rideshare company issue for the most part, and probably in an infinitesimally small portion of total rides the blame goes to drivers shuffling, and to add to that in the shuffling cases the blame goes to partially both pax themselves for failing to tip, and rideshare companies for paying more to cancel no show than to take the ride, that's just infinitely stupid. Pax should be notified when the driver is .3 miles out, and receive one free minute, and anything more is billed at a dollar a minute. Most drivers would wait all day for pax then, but they wouldn't have to.

He complains about the convenience of rental vs rideshare, and if he's doing a lot of zipping about from location to location on business trips he's probably right, but he's not factoring in gas (isn't that ironic), the time it takes to get the car, and parking related costs which add considerably to the cost of using a rental car.

Overall though this author's main complaint is cost. He starts the complaints off with it and ends with it. For the convenience for most riders over the length of time it takes to get a taxi over rideshare in the overwhelming majority of cases it's kind of hard for me to feel much sympathy for this pax given the price of the service should exceed that of taxi service for the convenience. That should always come at a premium, and if they don't care for that they can wait for their cab, or wait for the bus.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

Cold Fusion said:


> _"Your Honor, the reason I stand here today before the Court,
> Accused of Theft
> is because I chose a Career Path of Least Resistance offering
> 0nly a drivers license Credential and securing
> ...


I would say your posts are naive, but then I would be acting like I don't know you are a shill for uber hired for damage control purposes because your concept is a complete failure and you don't want to accept blame.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

itsablackmarket said:


> I would say your posts are naive, but then I would be acting like I don't know you are a shill for uber hired for damage control purposes because your concept is a complete failure and you don't want to accept blame.


@Cold Fusion is only a shill for the cult of personal responsibility and I am pretty sure that gig doesn't pay that well.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

waldowainthrop said:


> @Cold Fusion is only a shill for the cult of personal responsibility and I am pretty sure that gig doesn't pay that well.


Lol. Pays less the more you engage in it, but alas he apparently has fallen for the more shilling the more billing line of reasoning.


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## Clint Torres (Sep 10, 2019)

Nothing to do with driver pay. Cabbies were far worse scammers making more. Probably scamming is more correlated with full time work and the longer a driver drives. Carrot...pay won’t work. Uber is better with the stick and dip cancellation fees and drivers after six months


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Clint Torres said:


> Nothing to do with driver pay. Cabbies were far worse scammers making more. Probably scamming is more correlated with full time work and the longer a driver drives. Carrot...pay won't work. Uber is better with the stick and dip cancellation fees and drivers after six months


I suppose maybe it has something to do with a feeling of entitlement to fair wage for service rendered, coupled with a healthy sense of resentment when you're not being treated fairly. Both of which are definitely feelings that are going to become more pervasive the longer rideshare drivers stay on Uber and Lyft.


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## Clint Torres (Sep 10, 2019)

Wonkytonk said:


> I suppose maybe it has something to do with a feeling of entitlement to fair wage for service rendered, coupled with a healthy sense of resentment when you're not being treated fairly. Both of which are definitely feelings that are going to become more pervasive the longer rideshare drivers stay on Uber and Lyft.


nope. It's nature. Next you will say the the low paymakes drivers sexual assault the pax too. Pay does not create a sense of ethics...probably if anything ethics are inverse to pay


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Wonkytonk said:


> I suppose maybe it has something to do with a feeling of entitlement to fair wage for service rendered, coupled with a *healthy sense of resentment* when you're not being treated fairly. Both of which are definitely feelings that are going to become more pervasive the longer rideshare drivers stay on Uber and Lyft.


I have experienced resentment in my life and, on reflection, all resentment is unhealthy.

Unfair jobs abound in our society. Rideshare is yet another.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Clint Torres said:


> nope. It's nature. Next you will say the the low paymakes drivers sexual assault the pax too. Pay does not create a sense of ethics...probably if anything ethics are inverse to pay


Nah, that seems to be what you believe I might state based on ....??? There's no basis on which to draw such a conclusion from what I posted.

Ethics can be fluid things, for example an employee might steal a pen from work because they felt that they deserved it based on unfair compensation. The magnitude of the unfairness/injustice makes people more likely to make decisions contrary to the interests of the perpetrator of that unfairness/injustice. Of course that's going to have a moral limit beyond which most people won't go, a limit which changes based on where a person is at any given moment and the nature of the perception of the offense against them.



waldowainthrop said:


> I have experienced resentment in my life and, on reflection, all resentment is unhealthy.
> 
> Unfair jobs abound in our society. Rideshare is yet another.


I suppose resentment is unhealthy, but perhaps then expectation as the mother of resentment should be murdered at inception, but that's kind of hard to do sometimes. For myself as a personal note even I have been trying of late.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> @Cold Fusion is only a shill for the cult of personal responsibility and I am pretty sure that gig doesn't pay that well.


Independent contractor Uber shill.... what can be more pathetic?


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

jocker12 said:


> Independent contractor Uber shill.... what can be more pathetic?


Being a venture capitalist, robbing homeless people, working for MLM pyramid schemes, selling timeshares to people who can't afford them, committing insurance fraud as a career &#8230;


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> Being a venture capitalist, robbing homeless people, working for MLM pyramid schemes, selling timeshares to people who can't afford them, committing insurance fraud as a career &#8230;


You're giving Uber business ideas, telling them how and where to expand their "expertise".


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

jocker12 said:


> You're giving Uber business ideas, telling them how and where to expand their "expertise".


I suspect you're joking when you state that. For myself I tend to watch what I state on this board rather carefully when it comes to things the rideshare companies could actually do to improve the service for them. I'll freely mention things that they can do that would help drivers, and possibly themselves in the process, but never anything that solely benefits them. I wish more drivers were much more circumspect in the things they posted on this board. I've seen time and again where drivers have posted of ways they could exploit the process, or app in one way or another, and shortly the ability to take advantage of the exploit disappears from existence.


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## Buck-a-mile (Nov 2, 2019)

WTF? 

Are these people on dope, or just unexposed?

I traveled 25% for 15 years. I have taken cabs in most major cities, and more small cities and towns, if BFE had a hospital, I could have been sent there.

Cabs universally suck (with an exception for selected drivers in Las Vegas)

If ride share was approved, I would have preferred that to a used police car that smelled like barf and tobacco.


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