# Video of my accident earlier, who's at fault?



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

I knocked on someones door and got a very grainy video but you can see some.

I was pulling out of the gas station and she came flying out of the left lane to pass me on the right side.

She said I thought I was turning into her lane so that's why she passed me on the right. But theres still a good 4 seconds of me in that lane before she hits me.

And just so it's clear I'm turning from one gas station to another to get air in my tire. The first gas stations air pump didn't work.

Her insurance called me and said based on what her policy holder said, it seems like we're both at fault.


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

It really doesn't matter what we think. However, it looks to me that you turned from the gas station to the left hand lane which is pretty much a no-no.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

TomTheAnt said:


> It really doesn't matter what we think. However, it looks to me that you turned from the gas station to the left hand lane which is pretty much a no-no.


I'm still in the right lane. YOu can clearly tell right after she hits me, how fast contact was from the vehicles to the curb.


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

You asked, I responded based on what I saw in that video.

How can she pass you from the right if you are on the right lane? Also, when I look at the car that passes on the left lane before you two, your car seems to be in pretty much the same spot when you start making your turn.

Pretty sure without a sleazy traffic lawyer to spin the thing, you are SOL. Good luck.

Time to buy a dashcam, BTW.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Unfortunately, that video is probably not definitive enough to establish fault so most likely you both pay. Just a guess.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

TomTheAnt said:


> You asked, I responded based on what I saw in that video.
> 
> How can she pass you from the right if you are on the right lane? Also, when I look at the car that passes on the left lane before you two, your car seems to be in pretty much the same spot when you start making your turn.
> 
> ...





Seamus said:


> Unfortunately, that video is probably not definitive enough to establish fault so most likely you both pay. Just a guess.


why would I bet at fault. im in the right lane for a good 4 seconds. you can count it on the video.


----------



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

OP. It looks like you changed to the left lane but the other driver whom was previously behind you on the right lane hit you during the process. It seems to me that the other driver was either following too close or did not pay attention. In either case, it is just your words against theirs because it is quite difficult to judge the distance based on the video. Your dash camera may not be too helpful unless you also have one for the rear. As a side note, it may not be a good idea to make the video available to public while the claiming process is in progress.


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Clearly you see something we don't. Better call Saul.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> OP. It looks like you changed to the left lane but the other driver whom was previously behind you on the right lane hit you during the process. It seems to me that the other driver was either following too close or did not pay attention. In either case, it is just your words against theirs because it is quite difficult to judge the distance based on the video. Your dash camera may not be too helpful unless you also have one for the rear. As a side note, it may not be a good idea to make the video available to public while the claiming process is in progress.


Im not in the left lane at all, im in the lane for a good 4 seconds, you can count on the video before i was hit.

Look when i pull out from the gas station


----------



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

I am confused. How can you got hit on the right lane then? The only possibility is the other driver rear-ended you which is obviously not the case. It doesn't look like both of you were on the right lane.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> I am confused. How can you got hit on the right lane then? The only possibility is the other driver rear-ended you which is obviously not the case.


because the driver thought i was turning into her lane, so she was speeding in the left and tried passing me on the right as I was turning.

either way, i was in my lane for a good 4 seconds, and I was being passed on the right.


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> I am confused. How can you got hit on the right lane then? The only possibility is the other driver rear-ended you which is obviously not the case. It doesn't look like both of you were on the right lane.


Clearly we are looking at a different video than he is, so I don't think we can help. &#129335;‍♂


----------



## Iann (Oct 17, 2017)

Well you can't pass a car in the right lane, especially on the shoulder. 

You were still in the right lane as she assumed you were going to do something else and just tried to sneak past you on the right. 

You are in the clear in my book. 

You're turning right into the gas station. 
She takes to the shoulder to pass you on the right and hits you. 

Her insurance should cover it all from my experience. 

I was rear ended with a Pax in the Car. I got money for pain and suffering and it went on the other person's insurance claim. 
This was on Lyft but it's the same. I was deactivated for a hour until i sent pics of my car proving its okay to drive.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

The video confuses me. Did the other driver hit your right side, or did your crash into her left side when she tried to split the lane with you? It looks like you were on the left side of the lane and turned into her when she tried to pass you on the right.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

Iann said:


> Well you can't pass a car in the right lane, especially on the shoulder.
> 
> You were still in the right lane as she assumed you were going to do something else and just tried to sneak past you on the right.
> 
> ...


thank you. how am i in a lane for 4 seconds and hit by a car passing on the right and im at fault?



Trafficat said:


> The video confuses me. Did the other driver hit your right side, or did your crash into her left side when she tried to split the lane with you? It looks like you were on the left side of the lane and turned into her when she tried to pass you on the right.


i was never in the left. look at where im pulling out from the gas station in the beginning. it looks because from that angle my car is still pointed going into the left because I took that turn coming out SLOW. but I was never in the left lane.

how can I be in the left lane if I Just left a gas station exit?


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Iann said:


> Well you can't pass a car in the right lane, especially on the shoulder.


On the highway, yes. But OP was clearly on an urban street with no shoulders. See the pic he posted.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

*Improper passing on right or off roadway (NJSA 39:4-85)*
If you're going to pass a car that's driving in the same direction as you, you must pass that car by driving to the left of that vehicle. You can't come back to the right side of the road until it's safe to do so and there's a safe distance between your car and the car you passed. If you're not in a commercial or residential district, you must notify the other drivers that you're going to pass by honking or giving some other warning. Of course, you can't pass if it's not safe to do so. In this article, New Jersey *traffic ticket* lawyer Dan T. Matrafajlo will explain to you what the law is, and what it can mean for you.

*The law: N.J.S.A. 39:4-85*








"The driver of a vehicle overtaking another vehicle proceeding in the same direction shall pass at a safe distance to the left thereof and shall not again drive to the right side of the roadway until safely clear of the overtaken vehicle. If vehicles on the roadway are moving in two or more substantially continuous lines, the provisions of this paragraph and section 39:4-87 of this Title shall not be considered as prohibiting the vehicles in one line overtaking and passing the vehicles in another line either upon the right or left, nor shall those provisions be construed to prohibit drivers overtaking and passing upon the right another vehicle which is making or about to make a left turn.

"The driver of an overtaking motor vehicle not within a business or residence district shall give audible warning with his horn or other warning device before passing or attempting to pass a vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

"The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right as provided in this section only under conditions permitting such movement in safety. In no event shall such movement be made by driving off the pavement or main-traveled portion of the roadway."


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> why would I bet at fault. im in the right lane for a good 4 seconds. you can count it on the video.


I'm certainly not saying you were at fault. It could be just as you say. The video is unclear as it is obstructed by a tree so it doesn't clearly show the positions of the cars relative to the road. She could say you were making a right from the left lane.

Good luck, I hope it helps you.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

Seamus said:


> I'm certainly not saying you were at fault. It could be just as you say. The video is unclear as it is obstructed by a tree so it doesn't clearly show the positions of the cars relative to the road.
> 
> Good luck, I hope it helps you.


Thank you.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

The OP turned into the right lane from the gas station. She too was in the right lane. He pulled out in front of her, and her car hit the OP.

My take on this is the OP turned out from the gas station onto the highway, and misjudged how fast the other car was traveling. She swerved to the right to avoid hitting the OP. She was not trying to pass him. It was probably the safer bet for her to swerve right and not left if there was another car to her left.

In my opinion the OP is clearly at fault. He cut out in front of her. He did not have enough time to get up to speed, and she tried to avoid hitting him by swerving to the right.

Watch the video closely. You will see exactly what I am seeing.

Sorry OP, you are screwed.


----------



## The queen 👸 (Jan 2, 2020)

You seem to be in the middle or left lane and she is coming on the right lane and then collided with you .

watxhed the video 3x . With my glasses


----------



## backstreets-trans (Aug 16, 2015)

If I was on the jury I would place most of the blame on you. You pulled out in front moving traffic at a very slow rate. You took a wide turn probably partially into the left lane because you were swerving to the right before to accident into the car trying to pass you on the right. Before impact your headlights are almost facing the camera. The other cars who zoomed bye in the video never had headlights facing the camera. Looked almost like you were doing a U-turn. Sorry MHO.


----------



## The queen 👸 (Jan 2, 2020)

TomTheAnt said:


> Clearly you see something we don't. Better call Saul.


Or jake with the cacky pants at 3 am


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> The OP turned into the right lane from the gas station. She too was in the right lane. He pulled out in front of her, and her car hit the OP.
> 
> My take on this is the OP turned out from the gas station onto the highway, and misjudged how fast the other car was traveling. She swerved to the right to avoid hitting the OP. She was not trying to pass him. It was probably the safer bet for her to swerve right and not left if there was another car to her left.
> 
> ...


she wasn't in right lane. she tried passing me from left to right.

also this isn't a highway. this is a residential 25mph posted road.



backstreets-trans said:


> If I was on the jury I would place most of the blame on you. You pulled out in front moving traffic at a very slow rate. You took a wide turn probably partially into the left lane because you were swerving to the right before to accident into the car trying to pass you on the right. Before impact your headlights are almost facing the camera. The other cars who zoomed bye in the video never had headlights facing the camera. Looked almost like you were doing a U-turn. Sorry MHO.


no, i took the wide turn because that decline leaving the gas station kinda makes it hard pulling out so I had to take it slow.

my headlights are facing the camera because I took the turn late. that's why,.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> she wasn't in right lane. she tried passing me from left to right.
> 
> also this isn't a highway. this is a residential 25mph posted road.
> 
> ...


I see you pulling into right lane and she is coming up right behind you before you are able to get up to speed. She tries to avoid hitting you by maneuvering to the right. There is a car to her left. You can see it. You cut her off. You are at fault.


----------



## Selector19 (Mar 15, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> I knocked on someones door and got a very grainy video but you can see some.
> 
> I was pulling out of the gas station and she came flying out of the left lane to pass me on the right side.
> 
> ...


Man, why didn't you wait until it's safe to make a turn? It wasn't your right of way until it was safe to do so. You definitely made an unsafe turn when pulling out of the gas station. If she gets a good lawyer, you might be screwed.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Being there is a vehicle to the left of both of you, both of you had to be in right lane or the vehicle to the left was driving the wrong way down the street... 🤷‍♂️


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> I see you pulling into right lane and she is coming up right behind you before you are able to get up to speed. She tries to avoid hitting you by maneuvering to the right. There is a car to her left. You can see it. You cut her off. You are at fault.


i cut her off? im in the lane and begining to accelerate for 4 seconds.



Selector19 said:


> Man, why didn't you wait until it's safe to make a turn? It wasn't your right of way until it was safe to do so. You definitely made an unsafe turn when pulling out of the gas station. If she gets a good lawyer, you might be screwed.


it WAS SAFE. SHE WAS IN THE LEFT LANE AND TURNED INTO MY LANE.


----------



## Selector19 (Mar 15, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> i cut her off? im in the lane and begining to accelerate for 4 seconds.
> 
> 
> it WAS SAFE. SHE WAS IN THE LEFT LANE AND TURNED INTO MY LANE.


It doesn't matter what line you turned into and what line she was in. She could have started changing lanes before you made a turn. You pulled out of the gas station in front of moving traffic. That makes it very unsafe.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> i cut her off? im in the lane and begining to accelerate for 4 seconds.
> 
> 
> it WAS SAFE. SHE WAS IN THE LEFT LANE AND TURNED INTO MY LANE.


I'm sure that by tomorrow both the other driver and the pax will have retained attorneys. If both of their stories align, and they get video as well, you will probably lose your car insurance and possibly lose your Uber gig.

I'm not trying to flame you here, but that is the unfortunate reality. Your only savior here will be to prove she was somehow speeding... but you will still be the more liable party because you cut out in front of her...

It is only 2 seconds to impact from the time you are actually on the road based on video timeline.

The video shows her in the right lane, not cutting left to right. Shows her trying to avoid you by going around your right side... that is the only left to right I see.



Selector19 said:


> It doesn't matter what line you turned into and what line she was in. She could have started changing lanes before you made a turn. You pulled out of the gas station in front of moving traffic. That makes it very unsafe.


Agreed.

Even the guy on the video audio clearly states you are coming out slow... and you seem to agree with him...


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> I'm sure that by tomorrow both the other driver and the pax will have retained attorneys. If both of their stories align, and they get video as well, you will probably lose your car insurance and possibly lose your Uber gig.
> 
> I'm not trying to flame you here, but that is the unfortunate reality. Your only savior here will be to prove she was somehow speeding... but you will still be the more liable party because you cut out in front of her...
> 
> ...






SinTaxERROR said:


> I'm sure that by tomorrow both the other driver and the pax will have retained attorneys. If both of their stories align, and they get video as well, you will probably lose your car insurance and possibly lose your Uber gig.
> 
> I'm not trying to flame you here, but that is the unfortunate reality. Your only savior here will be to prove she was somehow speeding... but you will still be the more liable party because you cut out in front of her...
> 
> ...


i have to come out slow dude, its a ****ing gas station in a downtown area. its 25MPH downtown. it isn't the highway wiht a merging lane.



Selector19 said:


> It doesn't matter what line you turned into and what line she was in. She could have started changing lanes before you made a turn. You pulled out of the gas station in front of moving traffic. That makes it very unsafe.


How else do you pull out of a gas station? she was in the opposite lane ALL THE WAY BACK. im in that lane for 4 seconds.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


>


She still had the right of way (even to change lanes) even if your drawing is accurate.

The video show her in right lane. Shows you in right lane. Shows her swerving around your right side to avoid hitting you.

No matter what she had the right of way. You cut out into moving traffic, you are at fault.

From the time you are fully on the road it is 2 seconds to impact. She could not have been all the way back as you claim.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> She still had the right of way (even to change lanes) even if your drawing is accurate.
> 
> The video show her in right lane. Shows you in right lane. Shows her swerving around your right side to avoid hitting you.
> 
> No matter what she had the right of way. You cut out into moving traffic, you are at fault.


LOL. you really believe she had the right away? im in the RIGHT LANE and got struck by her trying to passs me.


----------



## Selector19 (Mar 15, 2019)

How else do you pull out of a gas station? she was in the opposite lane ALL THE WAY BACK. im in that lane for 4 seconds.


[/QUOTE]
Apparently, she wasn't all the way back if she hit you right after you pulled out of the gas station and was trying to accelerate. You always have to wait until it's safe to make a turn from a driveway onto a main road.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

Selector19 said:


> How else do you pull out of a gas station? she was in the opposite lane ALL THE WAY BACK. im in that lane for 4 seconds.


Apparently, she wasn't all the way back if she hit you right after you pulled out of the gas station and was trying to accelerate. You always have to wait until it's safe to make a turn from a driveway onto a main road.
[/QUOTE]

she didn't hit me right after I pulled out. Don't you see I was in my lane for almost 4 seconds before getting hit?


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> LOL. you really believe she had the right away? im in the RIGHT LANE and got struck by her trying to passs me.


No... you got struck by her trying to avoid you. That's what the video shows... &#129335;‍♂


----------



## Selector19 (Mar 15, 2019)

[/QUOTE]
she didn't hit me right after I pulled out. Don't you see I was in my lane for almost 4 seconds before getting hit?
[/QUOTE]
The distance you have traveled before she hit you suggests otherwise. Sorry man, but it's better if you get a lawyer who knows what to do. Maybe you will have a chance.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> No... you got struck by her trying to avoid you. That's what the video shows... &#129335;‍♂


No. she's trying to pass me IN MY LANE. shes not trying to avoid me. SHE THINKS IM GOING INTO THE LEFT LANE. SHE WAS IN THE LEFT LANE.

Notice how the right lane is much wider and is slanted on google maps?

She was trying to pass me as I was turning while she was speeding.

I really hope Bank of America can get me that video - I highly doubt it. thought.

Lobby is closed , the police station won't do a damned thing.

she didn't hit me right after I pulled out. Don't you see I was in my lane for almost 4 seconds before getting hit?
[/QUOTE]
The distance you have traveled before she hit you suggests otherwise. Sorry man, but it's better if you get a layer who knows what to do. Maybe you will have a chance.
[/QUOTE]
if It comes to getting a lawyer I will, because I will get that bank of america camera and PROOVE IT.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> How else do you pull out of a gas station? she was in the opposite lane ALL THE WAY BACK. im in that lane for 4 seconds.


If you're going to pull out that slowly you need to make sure you have enough room. If she was as far back as you said, you should've had time to turn and get up to 25mph. If you didn't have that time, you should've waited.

Yeah, she probably should've seen you and hit the brakes sooner if she was driving defensively. But you didn't have the right of way.

Whenever I have any doubt if I can make a turn on time or not, I wait, *especially *if there's pax in the car. I've had pax tell me, "well I would've gone" and I point out that it's my car and my liability, I'm the one driving and I'd rather be safe than sorry.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> If you're going to pull out that slowly you need to make sure you have enough room. If she was as far back as you said, you should've had time to turn and get up to 25mph. If you didn't have that time, you should've waited.
> 
> Yeah, she probably should've seen you and hit the brakes sooner if she was driving defensively. But you didn't have the right of way.
> 
> Whenever I have any doubt if I can make a turn on time or not, I wait, *especially *if there's pax in the car. I've had pax tell me, "well I would've gone" and I point out that it's my car and my liability, I'm the one driving and I'd rather be safe than sorry.


I have to pull out slowly man, im not MERGING, im headed to the next gas station. right next door.

i pulled out slow becuase of the decline coming out of that gas station I had to take it slow. that's why.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> No. she's trying to pass me IN MY LANE. shes not trying to avoid me. SHE THINKS IM GOING INTO THE LEFT LANE. SHE WAS IN THE LEFT LANE.
> 
> Notice how the right lane is much wider and is slanted on google maps?
> 
> ...


I'm just going by what the video shows. If you can get additional video that proves your case that is great. I will re-evaluate at that time. But by this video, it clearly shows you are at fault.

BOA prob will not give you video without a subpoena.

Regardless, even if she was in left lane pulling into right lane, I still say you are at fault because you cut into oncoming traffic.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> I have to pull out slowly man, im not MERGING, im headed to the next gas station. right next door.
> 
> i pulled out slow becuase of the decline coming out of that gas station I had to take it slow. that's why.


Then you should've waited until the road was clear.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> Then you should've waited until the road was clear.


huh?

when you pull out there has to be ZERO cars on the road?

im literally in my lane for 3.8 seconds before getting hit in a 25mph downtown area. 
by a driver trying to PASS ME ON THE RIGHT.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> huh?
> 
> when you pull out there has to be ZERO cars on the road?


Don't play stupid now... you knew exactly what she meant... &#128580;&#129335;‍♂


----------



## The queen 👸 (Jan 2, 2020)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> she wasn't in right lane. she tried passing me from left to right.
> 
> also this isn't a highway. this is a residential 25mph posted road.
> 
> ...


He does not look like that . I watched your video 3x again and my son watched it as well. You are at fault mate


----------



## 12345678 (Jan 8, 2019)

It looks like you pulled out wide into the left lane in front of oncoming traffic and they went to the right trying to avoid hitting you then you came back into the right lane. You didn’t see her and pulled out in front of her


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Don't play stupid now... you knew exactly what she meant... &#128580;&#129335;‍♂


um the road WAS CLEAR my man. when I pulled out did I Get hit?

I was on the damn road for almost 4 seconds! getting hit by a car passing me ON THE RIGHT OF ME IN THE RIGHT LANE.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Anyways good luck in getting this accident resolved. I suggest you get a good attorney.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

It looks to me that the right lane is very wide and the OP was to the left of the white line between the left and right lanes. Is the right lane so wide to allow for parking on the street?


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> huh?
> 
> when you pull out there has to be ZERO cars on the road?


If you're going to pull out that slowly, yeah. It's your responsibility to know your car and know how long it will take to turn and get up to speed. Unless you can prove she was speeding, I don't see how you wouldn't be at least partially at fault.



DontGoToPaterson said:


> im literally in my lane for 3.8 seconds


If that's how long it took you to turn you definitely should've waited.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> Anyways good luck in getting this accident resolved. I suggest you get a good attorney.


theres no need for that.

her car is fine. she has damage to her front bumper and fedner.

i need a new door and fender and mirror.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> um the road WAS CLEAR my man. when I pulled out did I Get hit?
> 
> I was on the damn road for almost 4 seconds! getting hit by a car passing me ON THE RIGHT OF ME IN THE RIGHT LANE.


If the road was clear you would not have been hit! It was 2 seconds that were were fully on road to time of impact.

Means the other vehicle was already in right lane or already merged into it at the time of impact.

The other driver had about 2 seconds to react to you cutting them off as you pulled out of the gas station which resulted in the impact.



DontGoToPaterson said:


> theres no need for that.
> 
> her car is fine. she has damage to her front bumper and fedner.
> 
> i need a new door and fender and mirror.


It's not about the car. It's about the injuries that will mysteriously pop up and you will be sued by both the pax and other driver.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> If the road was clear you would not have been hit! It was 2 seconds that were were fully on road to time of impact.
> 
> Means the other vehicle was already in right lane or already merged into it at the time of impact.
> 
> The other driver had about 2 seconds to react to you cutting them off as you pulled out of the gas station which resulted in the impact.


my man she wasn';t in my lane when I pulled out.

she was on the left lane .

she saw I pulled out slow, and was close to the middle line so she tried to pass me on the right speeding.

why would she try to pass me on the RIGHT LANE WHEN IM IN THE RIGHT LANE.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> I knocked on someones door and got a very grainy video but you can see some.
> 
> I was pulling out of the gas station and she came flying out of the left lane to pass me on the right side.
> 
> ...


You pulled out of the first gas station onto the left side of the right lane. It looks like the driver who was following behind you in the right lane thought that you were going to move to the left lane and decided to overtake you on the right side.

I would hold you partially to blame because if you are turning right then you should position your vehicle to the right of the lane. Instead, you were over to the left of the lane; far enough that the car could fit between your vehicle and the curb. I also don't see any right turn signals coming from your vehicle. I would apportion 25% of blame to you.

The other 75% of blame goes to the other driver for trying to overtake in the same lane and driving without due care and attention.

I agree with the insurer that both drivers are to blame, by differing degrees.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> You pulled out of the first gas station onto the left side of the right lane. It looks like the driver who was following behind you in the right lane thought that you were going to move to the left lane and decided to overtake you on the right side.
> 
> I would hold you partially to blame because if you are turning right then you should position your vehicle to the right of the lane. Instead, you were over to the left of the lane; far enough that the car could fit between your vehicle and the curb. I also don't see any right turn signals coming from your vehicle. I would apportion 25% of blame to you.
> 
> ...


Fair assessment. I agree.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> huh?
> 
> when you pull out there has to be ZERO cars on the road?
> 
> ...


I didn't get the impression she was trying to pass you on the right. I got the impression she was swerving to try to avoid hitting you. You were going very slowly. Typically, if you pulled out into oncoming traffic you need to make sure you have enough time to accelerate up to traffic speed. Since you were just pulling from one gas station to another, you weren't accelerating. I don't know if she was paying attention or not. But it seems the onus here is on you.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

Coachman said:


> I didn't get the impression she was trying to pass you on the right. I got the impression she was swerving to try to avoid hitting you. You were going very slowly. Typically, if you pulled out into oncoming traffic you need to make sure you have enough time to accelerate up to traffic speed. Since you were just pulling from one gas station to another, you weren't accelerating. I don't know if she was paying attention or not. But it seems the onus here is on you.


im on the road in a downtown 25 mph area dude. this isn't the highway.

i was on the road for a GOOD 3 seconds. about 3.8

she WASN"T IN MY LANE.


----------



## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

So....Who you gonna call? Ain't no ghost buster gonna help you.
What are you on the hook for. $1,000.00 or the $2,500.00?


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

Big Lou said:


> So....Who you gonna call? Ain't no ghost buster gonna help you.
> What are you on the hook for. $1,000.00 or the $2,500.00?


1k


----------



## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> 1k


Sometimes you have to take your lumps and march on. Good luck, I hope it doesn't take too long for repairs.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

Big Lou said:


> Sometimes you have to take your lumps and march on. Good luck, I hope it doesn't take too long for repairs.


looks like I might have too.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

If you had a decent dash cam that also recorded inside the cabin, chances are you would be able to prove she came into your lane. I know when I was rear ended my VanTrue N2 Pro clearly picked up the accident through the rear window.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> im on the road in a downtown 25 mph area dude. this isn't the highway.
> 
> i was on the road for a GOOD 3 seconds. about 3.8
> 
> she WASN"T IN MY LANE.


We must be looking at different videos. I see a car driving down the street ahead of you at a very good pace. Then I see your car slowly emerge at a very slow pace. Then I see her car coming up from behind you at a much faster pace. I can't be sure what lane she's in but it looks to me that she was behind you.

If you were doing the speed limit then those other cars are speeding.

But from your description of what you were doing it's hard to imagine you were going the speed limit.

Edit to add: I just froze the video before the impact. It looks clear to me that she came up in your lane. She's swerving to her right to try to avoid you. That's what my eyes see. It looks like her left front collided with your right rear. Did it happen some other way?


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Check with Bank of America and other businesses. See if they have video footage showing her change lanes into your lane.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> She said I thought I was turning into her lane so that's why she passed me on the right


Had the driver not assumed the OP was entering her lane, and just stayed in her left lane, none of this would have happened.


----------



## Sgt Donny Donowitz (May 2, 2020)

Based on what you can see on the video. It looks like you pulled out of a private property, and entered the roadway. That means the onus is on you to make sure its safe to do so, before you pull out onto the roadway.
It obviously wasn't safe, because a collision occurred.

In addition to you pulling out while it wasn't safe, you didn't pull into the closest lane to you. You skipped a lane which seems like that was the lane the other car was already travelling in, and rapidly approaching you. Looks like that vehicle attempted an evasive maneuver to avoid hitting you (because you literally pulled out when it wasn't safe) but couldn't avoid hitting you.

I would say its 100% your fault.
But that's based on what you said and the video.
I wasn't there so I could be missing something and therefore wrong in my analysis above


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

Coachman said:


> We must be looking at different videos. I see a car driving down the street ahead of you at a very good pace. Then I see your car slowly emerge at a very slow pace. Then I see her car coming up from behind you at a much faster pace. I can't be sure what lane she's in but it looks to me that she was behind you.
> 
> If you were doing the speed limit then those other cars are speeding.
> 
> ...


Boss this is a downtown 25 mph streeet. it isn't the highway. in fact the damages to her car are relatively nothing. my door is busted but that's it. Both cars drive fine.

She isn't trying to swerve out because I PULLED OUT. she saw me pulling out slow, and thought I was going into the left lane, so she went to pass me in the right side . She came into MY LANE to pass me on the right.

When she saw me turning, she slammed the breaks.




Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> Based on what you can see on the video. It looks like you pulled out of a private property, and entered the roadway. That means the onus is on you to make sure its safe to do so, before you pull out onto the roadway.
> It obviously wasn't safe, because a collision occurred.
> 
> In addition to you pulling out while it wasn't safe, you didn't pull into the closest lane to you. You skipped a lane which seems like that was the lane the other car was already travelling in, and rapidly approaching you. Looks like that vehicle attempted an evasive maneuver to avoid hitting you (because you literally pulled out when it wasn't safe) but couldn't avoid hitting you.
> ...


I didn't skip the lane. I'm in the right lane the entire time. I was more towards the middle. But still in the right lane.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> Based on what you can see on the video. It looks like you pulled out of a private property, and entered the roadway. That means the onus is on you to make sure its safe to do so, before you pull out onto the roadway.
> It obviously wasn't safe, because a collision occurred.
> 
> In addition to you pulling out while it wasn't safe, you didn't pull into the closest lane to you. You skipped a lane which seems like that was the lane the other car was already travelling in, and rapidly approaching you. Looks like that vehicle attempted an evasive maneuver to avoid hitting you (because you literally pulled out when it wasn't safe) but couldn't avoid hitting you.
> ...


The OP is saying it WAS clear to enter the right lane.
The other driver anticipated (incorrectly) that the OP would enter the left lane, so by changing into the right lane, the other driver created the hazard.
Had the other driver just stayed in her left lane, none of this would have happened.


----------



## Sgt Donny Donowitz (May 2, 2020)

Taxi2Uber said:


> The OP is saying it WAS clear to enter the right lane.
> The other driver anticipated (incorrectly) that the OP would enter the left lane, so by changing into the right lane, the other driver created the hazard.
> Had the other driver just stayed in her left lane, none of this would have happened.


If OP just pulled out of a driveway, then its 100% his fault.

If OP was traveling in a certain lane for a certain distance, then changed lanes, its 100% his fault.

If OP was traveling in a certain lane for a certain distance, and other car changed lanes and hit OP, then its 100% other cars fault.

If insurance companies cant figure out exactly what happened, then it will be 50% each at fault


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Your best bet would to prove that she was speeding there for failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident will be on her shoulders

See if you can find another store prior to her hitting you and see if you can't do a mathematical wonderless of the world and figure out her actual speed prior to hitting you. You're going to have to CSI this b**** out


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Taxi2Uber said:


> The OP is saying it WAS clear to enter the right lane.
> The other driver anticipated (incorrectly) that the OP would enter the left lane, so by changing into the right lane, the other driver created the hazard.
> Had the other driver just stayed in her left lane, none of this would have happened.


The vehicle on the road has, in this instance, the right of way period.

Doesn't matter if she was in left lane, right lane, or switching lanes.

The OP should have waited until both lanes were sufficiently clear of traffic before pulling out onto the roadway.

She was already crossing into the right lane or already in the right lane and rather close to the OP when this accident occurred.

Trying to say she was trying to pass him on the right is just nonsense. She was trying to avoid hitting him so she swerved to to right to go around.

If the Uber pax called Uber OP's account will be immediately suspended pending an investigation. If OP did not call Uber he should do so because if the pax called and OP didn't OP's account will most likely be permanent deactivated.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

SinTaxERROR said:


> The vehicle on the road has, in this instance, the right of way period.
> 
> Doesn't matter if she was in left lane, right lane, or switching lanes.


It's a matter of timing.
How long was the OP in the lane?
When did the other driver change lanes?
It not as black and white as you state it.



SinTaxERROR said:


> The OP should have waited until both lanes were sufficiently clear of traffic before pulling out onto the roadway.


Agree fully.
OP knowing he's going just next door and likely not able to get up to full speed, and also knowing he's having to take a wide turn to enter the other gas station (and I didn't see a turn signal used) should have waited until it was totally clear for that particular maneuver.


SinTaxERROR said:


> Trying to say she was trying to pass him on the right is just nonsense. She was trying to avoid hitting him so she swerved to to right to go around.


I never said that.
Based on the other driver's actions, I'd label her a pretty aggressive driver and did not exercise defensive driving.
She got herself into a bad situation she couldn't get out of.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

So all in all.....this is most likely going 50/50 with insurance unless I can get that bank of america video....which there is most likely zero chance I can get that.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> Boss this is a downtown 25 mph streeet. it isn't the highway. in fact the damages to her car are relatively nothing. my door is busted but that's it. Both cars drive fine.
> 
> She isn't trying to swerve out because I PULLED OUT. she saw me pulling out slow, and thought I was going into the left lane, so she went to pass me in the right side . She came into MY LANE to pass me on the right.
> 
> When she saw me turning, she slammed the breaks.


It's a really crappy video. But the whole time watching this I've thought you pulled out into the LH lane. I'm looking again and it still looks like that. If it happens as you describe that changes things a bit.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Original Poster was coming from a driveway. He had an obligation to yield the right-of-way to traffic. The car in the street had the right of way. Original Poster's insurance company will settle out of court and list this as an at-fault.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Just want to add here y'all are spending way more time on this than the insurance agents will. Just saying.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

SHalester said:


> Just want to add here y'all are spending way more time on this than the insurance agents will. Just saying.


I'm thinking it's going 50/50.....


----------



## Don'tchasethesurge (Dec 27, 2016)

So my biggest question to OP.... why don’t you have a dash cam? Regardless who at fault, you could see it better. Back in June I was hit... luckily I had dash cam to prove I was not at fault. Based on your video and the fact that you were coming out, you were both a fault. It’s hard to say who will have more percentage without know what the police report says. More likely, you will be bear the higher percentage because you came into the road, and may not done it safely.


----------



## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

I viewed your video with large screen and I saw it clearly.
You were in the right lane but that right lane was too wide, I think it is intended for parking cars by right lane.
That lady was driving too fast and you were driving slow. Can clearly see that in video.
It was clearly her fault. If you can provide your dash cam and this video together, you could convince her insurance company.

Here will explain why that was her fault.
(1) You were in right lane moving slowly under speed limit.
(2) She was driving behind you.
(3) You were signaling to turn right. ( She might have taken it your signal showing to merge onto the street was still going and didn't turn off yet) But it doesn't matter.
(4) She had seen your car in right lane and moving slower than normal traffic. She had to change into left lane if she wanted to pass over.
(5) She was seen clearly moving very fast and tried to pass you from far right which is intended for parking cars at right side.
(6) She did make a pass from right side that was violating traffic laws.

You just made a mistake that you took very far from the right to turn left when there was no car at parking lane. It invited this collision.


----------



## DeadHeadDriver (Feb 7, 2020)

Not judging: Guessing [_like some 42% of fellow Americans_] you are unable to cover unforeseen $1,000 [*repair*] Bill?

If best-case it costs you $500, but you become Spawn of Satan in Insurance Co's eyes b/c of your dual-liability claim, is it worth it? 
NJ Ins. rates--especially over several years to get back to Good Standing--would more than soak-up any money not paid from your 'win.'??


----------



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

Looks like I have missed some details watching the video with my phone. Previously I thought the OP was making a lane change to the left and the car behind him on the right lane did not stop in time. Here is what I saw with a much larger computer screen. 
1) OP did make an attempt to change to the left lane
2) However, the other car was originally in the left lane 

In other words, OP did cut in front of the other driver. At least this is what I saw through my eyes.

Sorry to say it is 100% OP's fault IMHO. The other driver has swerved to the right lane as an evasive response instead of an attempt of over-taking the OP. There were only 2 lanes in each direction hence swerving to the left (to traffic from opposite direction) is not possible. It doesn't really matter what has exactly happened the moment driving out from the gas station. The other driver was on the main road and thus had the right-of-way regardless of the lane she was at. Had the accident taken place the moment leaving the gas station, it would still be OP's fault failing to yield to the on-coming traffic.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Okay the video is worthless because it is to far away and obstructed.

Looking at the street from above, this section of the road is potentially dangerous. First off the right lane widens where the OP pulled out to allow for street parking a little further down. Second the left lane jogs to the left to allow for the right lane to widen.

If the OP (Orange Box) pulled out he had a very wide lane to pull into. If the other party (Blue Box) was in the left lane and did not move to the left as the lane shifted I could see where the person in the Blue could panic and try to pass the Orange on the right. If the person in the Blue was in the left lane they were in the wrong, they should not have merged into the right lane as a car was pulling out. The OP pulling out does not need to yield or wait for the car in the left lane to pass by.

The OP needs evidence the blue was in the left lane to prove he was not in the wrong.


----------



## Sgt Donny Donowitz (May 2, 2020)

FLKeys said:


> View attachment 486726
> 
> 
> Okay the video is worthless because it is to far away and obstructed.
> ...


I disagree.
Car pulling out of driveway cant do so unless safe, and doesn't interfere with the movement of other cars that are already traveling on that roadway. 
Onus is always on car entering road from driveway.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> I disagree.
> Car pulling out of driveway cant do so unless safe, and doesn't interfere with the movement of other cars that are already traveling on that roadway.
> Onus is always on car entering road from driveway.


If the other car was in the left lane the OP could safely pull out from the driveway into the right lane. If the other car was in the left lane and the OP pulled started pulling into the right lane, than the car in the left lane could not safely merge into the right lane as the OP has already started occupying it.


----------



## Sgt Donny Donowitz (May 2, 2020)

the Collision is proof that it wasn't safe for the OP to pull out onto the roadway


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I don't know if this has been addressed, but why isn't there a police report?


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> i cut her off? im in the lane and begining to accelerate for 4 seconds.
> 
> 
> it WAS SAFE. SHE WAS IN THE LEFT LANE AND TURNED INTO MY LANE.


Idt you ever told anyone which car was actually yours. I watched the video
about 5 times not knowing which 
car was yours and it looked to me
like the far car (one on the outside) woulda been at fault. 
Good luck!!


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Let me clear my throat..... 

Just proved that she was speeding and the rest is mute.


----------



## GIGorJOB (Feb 29, 2020)

Perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances. Hopefully no one was hurt. Naturally one might come out a little wide if they were pulling immediately in to the next turn. The fact that the lane veers left there as the right lane opens up is very inconvenient as well in this case.

If the other driver is unfamiliar or was not exactly paying too much attention, it might look like the you were pulling out into the left lane as stated. Plus there was something wrong with the road conditions that also warranted not directly pulling out to the far right, but if there were cars parked there, probably not possible, and little would have changed as far as how the you pulled out IMO.

No accusation, only hypotheticals and my opinion based on limited video but looks to me like the other car was proceeding a little too normal or casual based on the first cars' speed and passing in the video and should have slowed down dramatically when you pulled out and not just assume to know what you were doing. Perhaps not exactly paying attention as the lane veers and ending up in the "middle" then swerving/changing to the far right as opposed to slowing/stopping and claiming they thought otherwise. Or perhaps going a bit too fast in the event they were actually slowing during the incident, especially that it was only a 25 mph zone. Hard to tell. Then again pulling out and not merging quickly only to turn right back in is not exactly what most expect. Obviously, given that you know you're gonna make a quick turn in anyway, would have been prudent for all traffic to pass first.

Assuming they were in the left lane and no indication that they were changing over, they could argue failure to yield, don't know if that actually is, while you would argue incorrect passing. Anyone ticketed?

IMO the other driver's assumption was clearly wrong. Like to think if I was the other driver, would have simply tried to stop or slow enough until it was clearer what your intention was, as there were other possibilities but it's easy to type, wasn't there or involved. Hope it gets resolved as favorably as possible for everyone.


----------



## Sgt Donny Donowitz (May 2, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> Let me clear my throat.....
> 
> Just proved that she was speeding and the rest is mute.


 if the other car was speeding, then that might have contributed to this Collision.
However, just because a car is speeding, doesn't necessarily make it at fault in a Collision.

99% of cars that speed, do not get into collisions. However, 99% of cars that pull out of driveways into the path of speeding cars, will probably result in a collision.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> The OP needs evidence the blue was in the left lane to prove he was not in the wrong.


In the OP, "She said I thought I was turning into her lane so that's why she passed me on the right."
If that is on a police report, recorded, or if she sticks with this story, that would help the OP a lot 


Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> the Collision is proof that it wasn't safe for the OP to pull out onto the roadway


That is just dumb.
If I'm at a stop light and get rear ended, is that collision "proof" I was unsafe being at the stop light?
To use your logic, I'll say the collision was proof that the other driver was driving unsafe.


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

So far we have wasted 5 pages of the internet and no one here agrees with anyone else as to who is at fault. 

Had the OP gone to the Speedway gas station and not the Citgo gas station in the first place none of this would have happened.

In other words, the OP’s choice to use inferior gasoline was the initial catalyst as to the cause of this accident.


----------



## smithers54 (Jan 7, 2019)

It looks as if you pulled out infront of her. She swerved to the right and braking trying to avoid a accident


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Surprised no one else has pointed this out but @DontGoToPaterson if you had a bad tire you should've allowed *EXTRA TIME *for other cars on the road.

Hate to say it but I'd put it on you.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> if the other car was speeding, then that might have contributed to this Collision.


Is New Jersey a contributory state? In some contributory states, the amount of the award is influenced by the per-centage of negligence on each party that contributed to the collision. New York is like this.

In D.C., except in case of a bicycle involved collision, if any party was even one per-cent negligent, said party is barred from recovery. Despite that, D.C. juries rarely find the (mostly) aggrieved party even one per-cent negligent. I had a case where the plaintiff _admitted under cross examination_ that she was not looking where she was going. *STILL*, the jury did not find her even one per-cent negligent. We did win that one on appeal, though.

A few years past, the D.C. City Council amended this contributory statute. It basically absolved bibcylcists of any responsibility in the case of a collision. I am surprised that it did not do the same for jaywalkers. I guess that the last one is simply a Y-E-T.


----------



## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> I knocked on someones door and got a very grainy video but you can see some.
> 
> I was pulling out of the gas station and she came flying out of the left lane to pass me on the right side.
> 
> ...


You were at fault because when you exited one driveway onto the road you were in the second lane not the first.



DontGoToPaterson said:


> thank you. how am i in a lane for 4 seconds and hit by a car passing on the right and im at fault?
> 
> 
> i was never in the left. look at where im pulling out from the gas station in the beginning. it looks because from that angle my car is still pointed going into the left because I took that turn coming out SLOW. but I was never in the left lane.
> ...


How? Because you took the turn wide. You were obviously in the second lane and not the first lane.

If you had been in the right lane like your blue lines you drew she would have hit the light pole and the tree.

The video clearly shows you in the left lane and she is passing in the right lane (legal as this is not a highway unlike what some idiots have posted) and you turned into her trying to turn from the left lane into the gas station.

100% your fault.


----------



## Sgt Donny Donowitz (May 2, 2020)

Taxi2Uber said:


> In the OP, "She said I thought I was turning into her lane so that's why she passed me on the right."
> If that is on a police report, recorded, or if she sticks with this story, that would help the OP a lot
> 
> That is just dumb.
> ...


Not quite.
In your scenario, a car stopped at a red light, has fulfilled its requirement, and therefore not at fault. It would be the car that plowed into the stopped car who is at fault because the onus is on that car to not hit the stopped car ahead.
In the scenario that we have been talking about in this post, the onus rests on the car exiting a private driveway to yield or not interfere with cars that are already travelling on that road. Cars already on the road have the right of way. Even if they are speeding.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> the Collision is proof that it wasn't safe for the OP to pull out onto the roadway


Correct. By the same token, plane crashes are proof that air travel is not always safe. However, this facile observation does not help us to establish who was to blame for this accident.


----------



## Sgt Donny Donowitz (May 2, 2020)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Correct. By the same token, plane crashes are proof that air travel is not always safe. However, this facile observation does not help us to establish who was to blame for this accident.


If airplane A taxis onto a runway while airplane B is in the process of landing on that same runway, and airplane B crashes into airplane A, then its Airplane A's fault because airplane B had the right of way.
(Mind you I'm sure there will be some blame placed on the air traffic controllers, but bottom line, that collision is plane A's fault)
In this scenario, the plane crash is proof that it wasn't safe for plane A to enter the runway.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> If airplane A taxis onto a runway while airplane B is in the process of landing on that same runway, and airplane B crashes into airplane A, then its Airplane A's fault because airplane B had the right of way.
> (Mind you I'm sure there will be some blame placed on the air traffic controllers, but bottom line, that collision is plane A's fault)
> In this scenario, the plane crash is proof that it wasn't safe for plane A to enter the runway.


Of course, anyone can make up a hypothetical situation in which events are given by the storyteller. It is of little use for the storyteller to then quote the events that he gave as proof of the events that he gave. -o:

in your airplane scenario, your given is that the airplane A pulls out into the path of airplane B. However, in the OP's crash video we don't see whether he pulled out into the path of the other car or not. Maybe the other car was in the other lane when he pulled out.


----------



## DeadHeadDriver (Feb 7, 2020)

OP= Automatically Guilty of Pussie-Asss Driving While In NJ! 
If you had an Orange reflective triangle you could be excused for being speed of Amish horse&buggy amidst other traffic. Your from PA?


----------



## Sgt Donny Donowitz (May 2, 2020)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Of course, anyone can make up a hypothetical situation in which events are given by the storyteller. It is of little use for the storyteller to then quote the events that he gave as proof of the events that he gave. -o:


I agree.
That's why in the OP's actual scenario, OP is at fault for not yielding right of way after exiting a driveway.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> I agree.
> That's why in the OP's actual scenario, OP is at fault for not yielding right of way after exiting a driveway.


Again, the video does not allow judgment to be made on whether the OP pulled out in front of the other driver. There are only two possibilities here. Either a) the other driver was in the left lane and then changed lanes in order to "undertake" the OP (other driver's fault) or b) The other driver was in the right hand lane and the OP did pull out on him (mainly OP's fault). Because the road to the left of scene is not visible on the video, it is impossible to tell from the video which of these two possibilities occurred.

In any case, the OP pulled out at 0:05 seconds on the video and the impact occurred at 0:08 seconds. Even if the OP had pulled out in front of the other driver, the other driver had 3 seconds to react and slow down to avoid an impact. I would estimate the other car's speed at 30 mph - at that speed he would have been 130 feet away from the OP when he pulled out. The stopping distance at 30 mph is only 75 feet, so he could have stopped in time had he braked.

However, the video does not show the other driver slowing down - instead he goes for the undertake, which was a foolish move and makes him partly responsible, regardless of the lane he was in.


----------



## Sgt Donny Donowitz (May 2, 2020)

Let's go with your numbers. 30mph and 3 seconds...

You are forgetting about the time it takes for a human to observe something thru their eyes, and register with their brain. That's about 3/4 of a second.
Then there is the time it takes for your brain to make a decision about what it just saw, and tell your arms and legs to do something (like brake or steer).
That's about 3/4 of a second as well.

So your 3 seconds just became 1.5 seconds of braking, which at 30mph is about 65 feet.

Of course the faster the car was traveling, the greater the stopping distance.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> Let's go with your numbers. 30mph and 3 seconds...
> 
> You are forgetting about the time it takes for a human to observe something thru their eyes, and register with their brain. That's about 3/4 of a second.
> Then there is the time it takes for your brain to make a decision about what it just saw, and tell your arms and legs to do something (like brake or steer).
> ...


No, nothing has been forgotten. The 75 feet stopping distance already includes thinking time. The black part of the bars in the RAC chart represent thinking time, and it's also in the first column of the second source's data. Incredibly, knowing the stopping distances for various speeds is actually part of the driving test in some countries. Anyway, here are the numbers:





















> Of course the faster the car was traveling, the greater the stopping distance.


Of course, and with no deceleration of the other car, the faster it was going, the further away it would have to have been to cover the distance between it and the OP's car in the fixed time of 3 seconds, thereby allowing it more time to slow down. But from the video, a speed of around 30mph looks to be about right.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> I agree.
> That's why in the OP's actual scenario, OP is at fault for not yielding right of way after exiting a driveway.


A person turning right into the right most lane either, from a driveway or a road, does not have to yield to a car going straight in the left most lane. Once the person turning right starts to occupy the right lane the person in the left lane needs to yield to them if they want to get in the right lane from the left lane. Now if the person in the left lane had their blinker on indicating they were changing lanes than a car pulling out would need to yield to them.

Unless the OP can find evidence that the car was in the left lane when he started pulling out he is pretty much screwed. However just to say the OP was in the wrong regardless of how slow he pulled out or that he did not yield is incorrect.


----------



## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

Wow. SIX pages. I didn't read them all. Has anyone even mentioned that you are arguing your case in the wrong forum, and whatever is said here could be used against you?


----------



## Sgt Donny Donowitz (May 2, 2020)

FLKeys said:


> A person turning right into the right most lane either, from a driveway or a road, does not have to yield to a car going straight in the left most lane. Once the person turning right starts to occupy the right lane the person in the left lane needs to yield to them if they want to get in the right lane from the left lane. Now if the person in the left lane had their blinker on indicating they were changing lanes than a car pulling out would need to yield to them.
> 
> Unless the OP can find evidence that the car was in the left lane when he started pulling out he is pretty much screwed. However just to say the OP was in the wrong regardless of how slow he pulled out or that he did not yield is incorrect.


Just to keep this awful post going in the spirit of having some fun...

A blinker means nothing in this scenario.
Let me explain...
We've all seen elderly drivers driving for miles with their blinker on.
So lets say you are in a parking lot, and you are waiting to exit the lot, and enter the road.
Grandpa is approaching you on the road to your left, with his blinker on.
There is an intersecting road to your left of the driveway you're in.
You see grandpa's blinker is on, and you assume he is gonna turn right onto the street which is 100ft before the driveway you're in.
You pull out onto the road, but grandpa didn't turn and went straight and crashed into your car as you pulled out.
That blinker means nothing. You're at fault cuz grandpa had the right of way.
The blinker was a contributing factor in the crash, but you're at fault in the collision.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> Once the person turning right starts to occupy the right lane the person in the left lane needs to yield to them if they want to get in the right lane from the left lane. Now if the person in the left lane had their blinker on indicating they were changing lanes than a car pulling out would need to yield to them.


As far as I know there's nothing in the driving manual of the state I live in that covers who has right of way when two vehicles want to move into the same lane at the same time. For example:










When it happens on the highway, I automatically cede the lane to the other driver.

In streets like the one the OP was in i.e. when I'm in the left lane of a suburban/city street and I want the right lane and there is someone about to emerge from a driveway who also wants it, I also cede to them and move into the lane after I have passed them. Even if I am signalling, I assume they will not be looking / paying attention and that they will pull out anyway. But in this latter case I am not sure who has the right of way to enter the right hand lane. I think it's better to just wait until it's completely clear.


----------



## Sgt Donny Donowitz (May 2, 2020)

The Gift of Fish said:


> As far as I know there's nothing in the driving manual of the state I live in that covers who has right of way when two vehicles want to move into the same lane at the same time. For example:
> 
> View attachment 487056
> 
> ...


Both would share fault 50/50


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> Just to keep this awful post going in the spirit of having some fun...
> 
> A blinker means nothing in this scenario.
> Let me explain...
> ...


I agree 100% in this scenario.

As I said a car in the left lane with the right blinker on needs to be yielded to regardless of if the merge over or not. A car in the left lane that does not have a blinker on to indicate they are merging right does not need to be yielded to if you are staying in the right lane. That is why there are lanes.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> As far as I know there's nothing in the driving manual of the state I live in that covers who has right of way when two vehicles want to move into the same lane at the same time.


I've got to think that, barring other factors, someone already traveling in the roadway has right of way over someone pulling into the roadway.

I pull out into the RH lane on occasion when there's traffic moving in the LH lane. But I do it with extreme caution and edge my nose out so that oncoming cars can see pulling out into the road. Ideally, I just wait for all the traffic to pass so the entire roadway is clear.


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

welikecamping said:


> Has anyone even mentioned that you are arguing your case in the wrong forum


I kind of alluded to that in post #2... &#129335;‍♂


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I've got to think that, barring other factors, someone already traveling in the roadway has right of way over someone pulling into the roadway.


I don't know. I think that in these cases, right of way is not to the roadway as a whole, but is specific to the individual lane that both cars want. As in, if I'm in the middle lane on a three lane highway then I only have right of way to the middle lane, not to the whole freeway; traffic is free to enter the freeway and take the right lane if empty.

That leads to one of my biggest pet peeves - morons who think that traffic already in the right lane on a freeway has to yield to traffic entering the freeway. This is so stupid.


----------



## Clothahump (Mar 31, 2018)

Video is worthless. Can't make out jack shit.


----------



## Calirolla (Aug 13, 2018)

Speeding, left lane, right lane won't matter much. Even racecar drivers can't always chose the right lane in a split second decision to avoid an accident (although they're going 4-8x as fast.) Regular people freeze up that's why many accidents happen, what some of us think we could of dodged others don't know what to do and can't think fast enough. You didn't have the right away to pull out onto the street in moving traffic even stating you saw her in the left lane....especially with a bad tire going to need to go extra slow on it. No car can instantly stop either.
Do you turn right through every red light on a busy street when there's a driver in 2nd lane too, not waiting a few more seconds when you turn right as they cross the intersection too? That can lead to people having road rage and sometimes overreacting swerving to lose control causing another accident.
I had a pregnant woman t bone my car because she blanked out and went through a stop sign from the right side as well. It was 100% her fault. I had to keep swerving to the left hoping she'd stop on a 40 mph 4 lane road. If I chose to stay in my lane I would of tboned them, if I went right would of hit their rear end if they managed to clear doors being hit. Don't remember slowing much because I expected them to see my car and hit their brakes. If I slammed on the brakes would of had less control to trying to dodge them.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> That leads to one of my biggest pet peeves - morons who think that traffic already in the right lane on a freeway has to yield to traffic entering the freeway. This is so stupid.


Oh the traffic entering clearly has to yield. But it's a bigger pet peeve of mine when I'm trying desperately to enter a busy freeway and the idiot won't either speed up or slow down or move over to let me in the lane. It should be a cooperative effort.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> Oh the traffic entering clearly has to yield. But it's a bigger pet peeve of mine when I'm trying desperately to enter a busy freeway and the idiot won't either speed up or slow down or move over to let me in the lane. It should be a cooperative effort.


Well, that's the thing. Of course consideration should be given to other drivers. However, in this country the natives believe that each driver owns the piece of Tarmac between his/her car's front bumper and the car in front. If any fecker wants to merge into the lane ahead in violation of the driver's God-given right to that lane, then the normal course of action is to accelerate and close the gap to prevent it from happening.

A country's culture can be perhaps most readily seen in its driving. The Germans, for example, are known for precision and order, and this is reflected in their driving. The French have a reputation for being arrogant, and this is reflected in their driving. The British have a reputation for being polite and deferential, and this is reflected in their driving. This country's culture is all about the individual - here individualism and the personal freedom to benefit oneself are king, and collectivism of any kind is very heavily frowned upon. Again, this is strongly reflected in the driving style.

I do prefer to drive in countries where the driving is less confrontational and more cooperative. Even a place like Mexico, where the driving is certainly erratic, has higher standards of roadcraft compared with the "F U, I'm alright Jack" attitude that prevails here on the roads.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

New2This said:


> if you had a bad tire


I didn't even catch that part. Makes a little more sense now why OP said it took them four seconds of being in the road to turn. I just said basically if you take that long to turn it's on you to make sure you have the time and space to do so.


----------



## bethswannns (Mar 22, 2020)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> Im not in the left lane at all, im in the lane for a good 4 seconds, you can count on the video before i was hit.
> 
> Look when i pull out from the gas station


if that is the case, your lane was occupied at the time by you.. The other driver should have looked at his side mirror before he made that lane change. You don't change lane when it is occupied by someone else unless you are safe to do so, or have the right amount of distance or get yield.


----------



## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> A blinker means nothing in this scenario.
> Let me explain...
> We've all seen elderly drivers driving for miles with their blinker on.
> So lets say you are in a parking lot, and you are waiting to exit the lot, and enter the road.
> ...


I ran into almost that exact scenario when I was a teenager. I was sitting at a T intersection waiting to turn left with my signal on. A pickup truck was coming in my direction from my left with his right turn signal on. I assumed he was going to turn right onto the road that I was on (the path followed by the blue arrow below). Instead, he turned onto a dirt path that led into a freshly plowed field just beyond the intersection that I was sitting at (the path followed by the red arrow below). Fortunately, my sixth sense kicked in and I did not pull out in front of him. I can still see all this playing out in my mind like it happened yesterday because I have no explanation (other than a gut feeling telling me not to) why I did not make my turn in front of him.


----------



## mature423 (Dec 5, 2018)

Unfortunately according to the law, you are in the wrong because you have to make sure traffic is cleared for your to execute the turn even if she was in the left lane, you'll need both lanes clear before you turn. You don't know if they will go into the right lane last minute. The same for Launchpad, just because they have their signal does not mean they will make that right turn on your street. They might want to warn the people behind them that they are going to turn soon, at the business at that stop sign after your street. The same for pulling out of gas stations and grocery stores, just because they signal does not mean it's for your exact entrance/exit. Even if it's a small opening, make sure they are stopping or executing the turn first AND you are in the clear of cars/traffic.


----------



## nurburgringsf (Aug 26, 2016)

You need to get your damn license revoked.

You pulled out ONTO the left lane AND THEN proceeded to make a right to pull back IMMEDIATELY into the gas station or parking lot.



DontGoToPaterson said:


> I'm thinking it's going 50/50.....


ROFL

This clown pulls wide onto the left lane slowly and if that wasn't dumb enough, pulls back into the next gas station/parking lot FROM the far left lane. Rofl. Sorry you asked for it. Thats the bottom line.

This is more like 125% your fault. Since you made two collosal dangerous traffic violations. Like I said, you need to get your license revoked, have your vision checked by an eye doctor, and possibly take a ravens progressive matrices IQ test.


----------



## WhogivesAF? (Feb 17, 2020)

If you have a close look at that video ( and I mean real slow) . You have your indicator on and make a right turn into the car which is about to draw alongside you. The other car appears to be travelling quite fast. I would grab the 50/50 damages option with both hands.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

mature423 said:


> Unfortunately according to the law, you are in the wrong because you have to make sure traffic is cleared for your to execute the turn even if she was in the left lane, you'll need both lanes clear before you turn. You don't know if they will go into the right lane last minute. The same for Launchpad, just because they have their signal does not mean they will make that right turn on your street. They might want to warn the people behind them that they are going to turn soon, at the business at that stop sign after your street. The same for pulling out of gas stations and grocery stores, just because they signal does not mean it's for your exact entrance/exit. Even if it's a small opening, make sure they are stopping or executing the turn first AND you are in the clear of cars/traffic.


Wait. So you're saying "the law" says that all lanes must be clear before you can turn right?



nurburgringsf said:


> You need to get your damn license revoked.
> 
> You pulled out ONTO the left lane...
> This clown pulls wide onto the left lane slowly...


Calm down.
He said he turned into the right lane.


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

OP should have had his own dash cam footage. I hope everyone takes this as a learning opportunity. Get those dash cams and use them. That is all. Carry on. :smiles:


----------



## bethswannns (Mar 22, 2020)

4 second is a long asss time.. the other driver should be doing 30/hr. this is called "trying to go around you because you are too slow" you have to consider that fact that some people like to drive 10-15 mph over the speed limit.


----------



## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

In AZ, 10-15 over will get tailgaters flashing lights, honking horns and the finger.


----------



## Las Vegas Dude (Sep 3, 2018)

Sgt Donny Donowitz said:


> Just to keep this awful post going in the spirit of having some fun...
> 
> A blinker means nothing in this scenario.
> Let me explain...
> ...


If someone is coming up on a street or a parking lot turn in with their blinkers on I always wait till they turn or pass by. I have seen way to many times when someone has their blinker on and change their mind or not know that it's on and go straight.


----------



## WhogivesAF? (Feb 17, 2020)

Las Vegas Dude said:


> If someone is coming up on a street or a parking lot turn in with their blinkers on I always wait till they turn or pass by. I have seen way to many times when someone has their blinker on and change their mind or not know that it's on and go straight.


I think that would be the reasonable action of an experienced driver who hadn't acquired that experience on the sub continent.


----------



## Waymo (Nov 6, 2019)

this is why I wait till the road is clear, when I mean clear I mean the car is at least 200 meters away from me


----------



## mature423 (Dec 5, 2018)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Wait. So you're saying "the law" says that all lanes must be clear before you can turn right?


I know that the person going straight has the RIGHT OF WAY. The person turning DOES NOT. It's the turning vehicle's responsibility to be able to execute the turn without causing danger and blocking traffic or causing an accident which happened here. He doesn't know if the car in the left lane will change into the right lane last minute right in front of him.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

mature423 said:


> I know that the person going straight has the RIGHT OF WAY. The person turning DOES NOT. It's the turning vehicle's responsibility to be able to execute the turn without causing danger and blocking traffic or causing an accident which happened here. He doesn't know if the car in the left lane will change into the right lane last minute right in front of him.


So it's NOT a law as you claimed. Got it.

Sounds to me the other driver was driving aggressive, hazardous, and wreckless.
She changed lanes into the OP's car already occupying the lane, then was not able to slow or stop to avoid a collision.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> I ran into almost that exact scenario when I was a teenager. I was sitting at a T intersection waiting to turn left with my signal on. A pickup truck was coming in my direction from my left with his right turn signal on. I assumed he was going to turn right onto the road that I was on (the path followed by the blue arrow below). Instead, he turned onto a dirt path that led into a freshly plowed field just beyond the intersection that I was sitting at (the path followed by the red arrow below). Fortunately, my sixth sense kicked in and I did not pull out in front of him. I can still see all this playing out in my mind like it happened yesterday because I have no explanation (other than a gut feeling telling me not to) why I did not make my turn in front of him.
> 
> View attachment 487154


That's why I don't trust people's turn signals. I always wait to see what they're really gonna do.


----------



## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

I coined the phrase "Iowa Left turn", after following this vehicle in Tucson, for several blocks. He turned his right-turn signal on, then immediately turned left - from the right lane, and crossing right in front of me (in the left lane). Not saying all Iowan's drive like that, but that was his plate registration, so own it.


----------



## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Why's at fault? The one without a dashcam. The one that only has security cam video which is obscured by a tree loaded with snow.

Next.


----------



## SOLA-RAH (Dec 31, 2014)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> I knocked on someones door and got a very grainy video but you can see some.
> 
> I was pulling out of the gas station and she came flying out of the left lane to pass me on the right side.
> 
> ...


I hope you do learn a lesson from all this, mainly DON'T TRUST ANYBODY ON THE ROAD. Drive defensively and always have a way out to escape danger. If you just simply waited 3 seconds for her to pass on by there would've been zero chance of an incident. Even if you were 100% not at-fault, getting into any sort of fender-bender is a huge headache and only wastes your time and/or money. And I guarantee you won't ever do what you did in this situation ever again.



DontGoToPaterson said:


> Boss this is a downtown 25 mph streeet. it isn't the highway. in fact the damages to her car are relatively nothing. my door is busted but that's it. Both cars drive fine.
> 
> She isn't trying to swerve out because I PULLED OUT. she saw me pulling out slow, and thought I was going into the left lane, so she went to pass me in the right side . She came into MY LANE to pass me on the right.
> 
> ...


If she "thought" you were going into the left lane, then you definitely swung it way too wide. The fact that she tried to get around you on your right side means you gave her plenty of room between your car and the curb to attempt it.
My best advice is to request the mods to delete this whole thread, because you've incriminated yourself repeatedly and any decent lawyer can dig up stuff like this. Also, the court of UP public opinion is overwhelmingly not on your side so don't give the other party any more ammunition.


----------



## Tenderloin (Sep 5, 2016)

recorded on potato


----------



## Crosbyandstarsky (Feb 4, 2018)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> I knocked on someones door and got a very grainy video but you can see some.
> 
> I was pulling out of the gas station and she came flying out of the left lane to pass me on the right side.
> 
> ...


Obviously you are..go read your manual


----------



## Prius Mike (Jul 6, 2017)

What I see in the video is that the other driver was driving much faster than the first car traveling left-right (eastbound) on Springfield Ave in the video. But, given that the front bumper of that car enters and leaves the frame in about a second, and that the third car (the one that struck yours) was quickly decelerating, it's really hard to demonstrate from the video what her speed was. My eyeball estimate is that she was traveling about 40 MPH in what you say is a 25 MPH zone. From your photo it looks like this was across from the Supremo in Irvington, NJ, and given how dense the area is to the west of the accident, that speed limit makes sense.

From your description and your photo, it seemed to me that the road in your direction of travel is two lanes, with a very wide shoulder on the right lane, probably used for parking further up the road. A little bit of Googling confirms this from a different angle, it it looks like you were eastbound from Citgo to Speedway. The video angle seems to be from a residence on Bruen Ave behind the Speedway.










Just to the west, there's an intersection crossing Eastern Pkwy and Sharon Ave with only one lane feeding to Springfield Ave. The other lane is for left turns onto Eastern Pkwy, which is one-way:










I can think of only these four things that could have occurred, with the likelihood of each going from least likely to most likely in my opinion:
1. She turned from Sharon Ave onto Springfield at high speed, such that she couldn't make the turn onto Springfield into the right lane, and instead illegally turned into the left lane of a two-lane road. Whereupon she misjudged that you were moving into the left lane and attempted to pass on the right from the left lane rather than slow down.
2. She was traveling fast in the right lane of Springfield, eastbound, and legally changed to the left lane after crossing the intersection (where according to her statement she was traveling when she saw you). That would mean that she would have needed to deliberately change to the left lane while you were in full view, and then deliberately change back to the right shoulder because she thought you were turning inter her (left) lane. That one seems very unlikely and not plausible given how long you were on Springfield before the crash.
3. She was traveling in the right lane of Springfield and illegally changed from the right to the left lane within the intersection, only to then judge (incorrectly) that you were coming into the left lane and then she attempted to overtake you on the right. 
4. She was traveling fast, someone was making a right onto Sharon from Springfield. You, seeing the car turning right from the right lane judged that it was safe to make your turn. She, rather than slow down and keep the correct lane as she approached the car slowing to make a right, used the empty left turn lane to overtake the car turning right, and couldn't see you pulling out because her view was obstructed by the car she was about to illegally overtake using the turn lane. Then, because the lanes shift to the left there, she misjudged that you were moving to the left lane, and her first reaction was not to brake (consistent with her earlier action at the intersection) but instead pass on the right.

The only one of those situations where she would have been in the right but in my opinion only partly at fault would have been number 2, but that seems very unlikely. In all other cases, you would have seen it as safe to turn, and her actions led to the crash. My conclusion: 100% her fault.

Also, the line of questioning outlined here may be helpful: https://www.millerandzois.com/time-speed-and-distance.html


----------



## Prius Mike (Jul 6, 2017)

Prius Mike said:


> What I see in the video is that the other driver was driving much faster than the first car traveling left-right (eastbound) on Springfield Ave in the video. But, given that the front bumper of that car enters and leaves the frame in about a second, and that the third car (the one that struck yours) was quickly decelerating, it's really hard to demonstrate from the video what her speed was. My eyeball estimate is that she was traveling about 40 MPH in what you say is a 25 MPH zone. From your photo it looks like this was across from the Supremo in Irvington, NJ, and given how dense the area is to the west of the accident, that speed limit makes sense.
> 
> From your description and your photo, it seemed to me that the road in your direction of travel is two lanes, with a very wide shoulder on the right lane, probably used for parking further up the road. A little bit of Googling confirms this from a different angle, it it looks like you were eastbound from Citgo to Speedway. The video angle seems to be from a residence on Bruen Ave behind the Speedway.
> 
> ...


I withdraw option 1 - Upon further examination, Sharon Ave is also one-way so she couldn't have been turning from there. All scenarios are that she crossed the intersection eastbound.


----------



## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

[HEADING=2]who's at fault? Poor Traffic Engineering.[/HEADING]


----------

