# Too much commission...



## AMBUDRIVER03 (Jul 1, 2014)

So in 30 days (this is actually 4weeks) averaging about 35-50h/wk. (4k miles)
(one week I was sick and only drove 15h all week and barely covered my lease and fuel (but not payroll))

I've paid Uber between 1900-2100 in commissions.

Crazy right?

I have a hard enough time justifying the $1500/mo that I spend on my lease.

The only thing I can do is hire more drivers and drive the vehicle into the ground and make up for the slow times on volume...

*My question is this, what is "reasonable" ? *

I acknowledge that without Uber I would be doing things much differently...

Why should XLs and SUVs and LUX pay more commission than X/BLACK?

I don't think charging them more commission on higher fares is reasonable...

Higher fares should be for higher luxury / capacity vehicles, which already have a higher cost to purchase and operate.

Getting a couple more percent tacked on because you're a premium product sucks ...

I would be fine paying 20% across the board on all services if I were getting something other than "the app" for my $2000 month.


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

I think it should be 20% across the board regardless of class of service.

I don't have a problem with 20% commission. These companies deserve to make as much money as they possibly can in my opinion. We don't know what their true operating costs are and personally I don't care. The app, the ride opportunities, and the cost of processing the credit card payments is worth 20% I think.

With that being said, I don't think the current rates are high enough on UberX, Lyft and Sidecar. If the rates were what they were prior to the latest round of price cuts I was happy with the 20% commission. Now not so much.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Yup...just can't get my butt into the car anymore...lost that lovin' feeling...


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## AMBUDRIVER03 (Jul 1, 2014)

LookyLou said:


> I think it should be 20% across the board regardless of class of service.
> 
> I don't have a problem with 20% commission. These companies deserve to make as much money as they possibly can in my opinion. We don't know what their true operating costs are and personally I don't care. The app, the ride opportunities, and the cost of processing the credit card payments is worth 20% I think.
> 
> With that being said, I don't think the current rates are high enough on UberX, Lyft and Sidecar. If the rates were what they were prior to the latest round of price cuts I was happy with the 20% commission. Now not so much.


I agree for the most part. But paying 25-28% is almost the lion's share of the income.

In my case my commissions are equivalent to my lease plus monthly insurance payment ..


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

AMBUDRIVER03 said:


> I agree for the most part. But paying 25-28% is almost the lion's share of the income.
> 
> In my case my commissions are equivalent to my lease plus monthly insurance payment ..


I agree. Yours should be 20% too.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

The commission for fully licensed, commercially insured services UberBLACK/SUV should be lower than for UberX/XL. 
What is the standard with other reputable limo companies?


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> The commission for fully licensed, commercially insured services UberBLACK/SUV should be lower than for UberX/XL.
> What is the standard with other reputable limo companies?


Uber is certainly not standard and you have to question their reputation.


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

$4 - tax to uncle sam - gas - depreciation - insurance - etc, etc...
slavery is alive and well...


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## AMBUDRIVER03 (Jul 1, 2014)

LookyLou said:


> I agree. Yours should be 20% too.


I have to make payroll and gas on 50% of the gross.

If you take my commissions plus lease you're looking at 50%.

Paying the rest of the bills and making payroll on $1,000 isn't as easy.

Then again I'm pretty generous to my drivers. They make a minimum wage no matter how busy they are, and then get paid Performance bonuses based on gross/net receipts


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## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

I don't care what commission / rates are, as long as it provides a way for good drivers to make a good living - e.g., fair rate, commission, ability to tip. If Commissions are 5% and fares are low, I can deal with that. I think the real question is, what do you expect to make as a driver, if you are a 9-5 driver (lowest); a rush hour driver (low); or a weekender (highest).

What do you guys think? I think a 9-5er, assuming a reasonably efficient vehicle, should be able to make 10-15 per hour, after all taxes, commissions, fees, etc.

Rush hour, 15-20 per hour.

Weekender 25-35 per hour.


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

I don't mind the 20%. But most rides sub $20 are more than 20% because of the Safe Ride Fee. I definitely have a problem with any ride that's a sub $10 fare because of that fee.


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## London UberExec Driver (Jul 8, 2014)

UberPissed said:


> I don't care what commission / rates are, as long as it provides a way for good drivers to make a good living


I agree. All I'm concerned is what I get paid at the end of the trip. How much Uber (or any other company I work for) chooses to charge the passenger is not really my concern.

UberExec rates aren't that bad in London, it's certainly better than some companies I work for, and there's less dead miles.

When I do a job for some companies, they just tell me how much to invoice them, so I have no idea what they charge their customer.

If for example, I'm told to invoice them £45 for an airport run, then I wouldn't know if they charge the customer £50, or £150. As long as the £45 I get is worth my while doing that job and I'm happy with that, that all that matters.

However, the passenger may not be too happy if they find out, the driver is getting paid less than they expected, as the passenger may feel they're being ripped off.


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## Art (Jun 18, 2014)

Commission should be less then 15% !
Our car payments and insurance alone are 3-4 times more then x and xl.
We have a weekly dry cleaning bill that x and xl dont have, we have to have cold water for our passengers no exception! We have a mutch smaller clientele. Yet we are paying the most commission. 
Not to mention we where charged a $10 phone bill from day1 not just recently


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Art said:


> Commission should be less then 15% !
> Our car payments and insurance alone are 3-4 times more then x and xl.
> We have a weekly dry cleaning bill that x and xl dont have, we have to have cold water for our passengers no exception! We have a mutch smaller clientele. Yet we are paying the most commission.
> Not to mention we where charged a $10 phone bill from day1 not just recently


Yup! You are right about that...forgot about the $10/week for UberPhone from day 1!


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## moniker (Aug 23, 2014)

AMBUDRIVER03 said:


> View attachment 1299
> 
> 
> So in 30 days (this is actually 4weeks) averaging about 35-50h/wk. (4k miles)
> ...


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## moniker (Aug 23, 2014)

wow, how many hours do you work>??


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> The commission for fully licensed, commercially insured services UberBLACK/SUV should be lower than for UberX/XL.
> What is the standard with other reputable limo companies?


I guess you have a good point.

Black/Suv and other licensed classes carry their own insurance and regulatory costs. Uber isnt stumping up for those like X classes.

Paying 28% looks even worse now


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## mikeymike (Sep 9, 2014)

20% is absurd when you think about it. Everybody realizing that with Taxes, which I hope most people set aside that money for cause it does not come out of your check, and Uber taking their 20% that you are only making 50% of that actual money? along with the $0.50 per mile depreciation on your vehicle (standard rating on resale value) and the gas you have to get as well. They were making money when it was a 5% commission (only netted 5Billion off of that) now with the 20% ( they are already netted at 8Billion) is that not greed? along with the lower fares and everything you really only make minimum wage or under when you break it down. 
Say you worked 20 hrs part time made $250. after uber 20% you lost 50 and now have $200. With a gas saver car you probably spent $40-50 on gas. $150
depending on your tax bracket (i'll go low and do the 30% tax rate) thats another $50 gone. That leave you with $100 and if you take into consideration that it took you 20hrs just to get that, then you're making $5 an hour. Is that really justifiable? especially since they have people trapped now in lease programs as well?
C'mon man!


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## moniker (Aug 23, 2014)

set aside money? HA


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## moniker (Aug 23, 2014)

I am disappointed


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

mikeymike said:


> 20% is absurd when you think about it. Everybody realizing that with Taxes, which I hope most people set aside that money for cause it does not come out of your check, and Uber taking their 20% that you are only making 50% of that actual money? along with the $0.50 per mile depreciation on your vehicle (standard rating on resale value) and the gas you have to get as well. They were making money when it was a 5% commission (only netted 5Billion off of that) now with the 20% ( they are already netted at 8Billion) is that not greed? along with the lower fares and everything you really only make minimum wage or under when you break it down.
> Say you worked 20 hrs part time made $250. after uber 20% you lost 50 and now have $200. With a gas saver car you probably spent $40-50 on gas. $150
> depending on your tax bracket (i'll go low and do the 30% tax rate) thats another $50 gone. That leave you with $100 and if you take into consideration that it took you 20hrs just to get that, then you're making $5 an hour. Is that really justifiable? especially since they have people trapped now in lease programs as well?
> C'mon man!


You can easily claim 200 miles against your 20 hours driven which knocks over $100 off your taxable profit. Add in some air freshener, a car wash, and a reasonable business-use portion of your cell phone bill and your taxable $150 is down to just a few bucks.


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## cybertec69 (Jul 23, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> I guess you have a good point.
> 
> Black/Suv and other licensed classes carry their own insurance and regulatory costs. Uber isnt stumping up for those like X classes.
> 
> Paying 28% looks even worse now


 I am UberX, and here in NYC we pay the same fees as any other black car service, even though Uber categorizes us as UberX, the state sees us as a dispatch FHV black car service "which we are", which means we carry our own insurance and regulatory costs, and every other cost associated with running a black car dispatch service.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

[Qfull-"c.ybertec69, post: 39020, member: 686"]I am UberX, and here in NYC we pay the same fees as any other black car service, even though Uber categorizes us as UberX, the state sees us as a dispatch FHV black car service "which we are", which means we carry our own insurance and regulatory costs, and every other cost associated with running a black car dispatch service.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info, Cybertec.

So are Uberx rates in NYC better than most to cover the additional regulatory costs that you are paying for directly?

is the licence fee the same cost as a full-size, full-time town car?


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

moniker said:


> set aside money? HA


I get the humor here, but just putting it out there for anyone who doesn't realize this.. If you show a profit at the end of the year, and owe taxes, you will be hit with a penalty if you have not sent in quarterly estimated tax payments during the year.


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## AMBUDRIVER03 (Jul 1, 2014)

moniker said:


> wow, how many hours do you work>??





moniker said:


> wow, how many hours do you work>??


Varies but 30-50.


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

mikeymike said:


> 20% is absurd when you think about it.
> Say you worked 20 hrs part time made $250. after uber 20% you lost 50 and now have $200. With a gas saver car you probably spent $40-50 on gas. $150
> depending on your tax bracket (i'll go low and do the 30% tax rate) thats another $50 gone. That leave you with $100 and if you take into consideration that it took you 20hrs just to get that, then you're making $5 an hour. Is that really justifiable? especially since they have people trapped now in lease programs as well?
> C'mon man!


30% ? ROFL
I would doubt if many UberX Drivers are paying that much, at least from UberX recent earnings. Perhaps back in the good old days for some of you, but now except for the 50 + hour Drivers? That is why people are driving Uber X. They don't have other jobs making enough to pay 30% in taxes. I would bet most around here are closer to 15-20%. Only 15% due to Self Employment taxes.

I do not see any mention of the tax deductions. Mileage of course, but there is car cleaning, supplies, detailing, entertainment, etc. ENTERTAINMENT? Yeah, this is a small business, when you go into a bar and are having some food and beers, you probably talk to somebody about your referal code. Pin a flyer in that new club downtown? Perhaps you are out with an acquaintance at dinner, talking to them about signing up, or driving business meal, take the deduction. New computer to use the new dashboard? Deductible. New Iphone 6 or whatever it is? Deductible, new GPS, headset, stero with kicking bass? Yeah, all of it. Perhaps 6-70% of your cell bill. Maybe even a percentage of your home internet service. Perhaps you need to go drive in San Diego for an hour over the weekend to test the market, drive back to LA? Why? Get a room. If you do joint returns, running Uber at a loss might actually be more beneficially for a short period for some. I believe 2 out of 5 years? Talk to your tax man. The penalty for not paying estimated payments and penalties, are usually less than other loans ,certainly pay day loans. Don't have it? Payment plan. But certainly one should not automatically see doom and gloom because you are not setting aside some grand amount. Unless you ARE making a ton of money.
Yes your deductions will be limited by the bracket you are in. BUt every bit helps.
Uber is currently the best minimum wage job around for many. For many people the extra cash coming might mean keeping the wolves at bay. Perhaps saving their homes or paying for a childs education. Taxes and a depreciated asset is something to worry about down the road for some.


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> 30% ? ROFL
> I would doubt if many UberX Drivers are paying that much, at least from UberX recent earnings. Perhaps back in the good old days for some of you, but now except for the 50 + hour Drivers? That is why people are driving Uber X. They don't have other jobs making enough to pay 30% in taxes. I would bet most around here are closer to 15-20%. Only 15% due to Self Employment taxes.
> 
> I do not see any mention of the tax deductions. Mileage of course, but there is car cleaning, supplies, detailing, entertainment, etc. ENTERTAINMENT? Yeah, this is a small business, when you go into a bar and are having some food and beers, you probably talk to somebody about your referal code. Pin a flyer in that new club downtown? Perhaps you are out with an acquaintance at dinner, talking to them about signing up, or driving business meal, take the deduction. New computer to use the new dashboard? Deductible. New Iphone 6 or whatever it is? Deductible, new GPS, headset, stero with kicking bass? Yeah, all of it. Perhaps 6-70% of your cell bill. Maybe even a percentage of your home internet service. Perhaps you need to go drive in San Diego for an hour over the weekend to test the market, drive back to LA? Why? Get a room. If you do joint returns, running Uber at a loss might actually be more beneficially for a short period for some. I believe 2 out of 5 years? Talk to your tax man. The penalty for not paying estimated payments and penalties, are usually less than other loans ,certainly pay day loans. Don't have it? Payment plan. But certainly one should not automatically see doom and gloom because you are not setting aside some grand amount. Unless you ARE making a ton of money.
> ...


While running at a loss is legal, my tax guy told me that it greatly increases the risk of an audit.

If you want to reduce your audit chance you are much better off claiming a very small profit and slowly increasing it year over year.


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

OldTownSean said:


> While running at a loss is legal, my tax guy told me that it greatly increases the risk of an audit.
> 
> If you want to reduce your audit chance you are much better off claiming a very small profit and slowly increasing it year over year.


Just to add to this point... I can't back this up with facts right now, but I _think_ that there is a limit to the number of years you can run at a loss. The idea behind running a business is that you expect at some point to make a profit, so for the first few years it is acceptable and sometimes expected that you will be at a loss, but this shouldn't go on indefinitely.

It may not be an absolutely defined number written somewhere, but at the very least I would say the audit risk gets higher with each consecutive year of operating at a loss. Perhaps somebody else here knows exactlly of what I speak and will chime in.. And, as I said, I'm going off the top of my head, so please don't anybody flame me for not doing research on this...


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## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

NightRider said:


> Just to add to this point... I can't back this up with facts right now, but I _think_ that there is a limit to the number of years you can run at a loss. The idea behind running a business is that you expect at some point to make a profit, so for the first few years it is acceptable and sometimes expected that you will be at a loss, but this shouldn't go on indefinitely.
> 
> It may not be an absolutely defined number written somewhere, but at the very least I would say the audit risk gets higher with each consecutive year of operating at a loss. Perhaps somebody else here knows exactlly of what I speak and will chime in.. And, as I said, I'm going off the top of my head, so please don't anybody flame me for not doing research on this...


I don't know if this is still the case, but about 7 years ago my tax guy said you can only deduct a loss for 2 years. If it's a loss the 3rd year it is considered a "hobby" and the loss is no longer deductible.

I think you can still operate at a loss after that, you just can't write off the loss.


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

OldTownSean said:


> I don't know if this is still the case, but about 7 years ago my tax guy said you can only deduct a loss for 2 years. If it's a loss the 3rd year it is considered a "hobby" and the loss is no longer deductible.
> 
> I think you can still operate at a loss after that, you just can't write off the loss.


That's about in line with my recollection. And has jogged my memory a bit where I can add that this particularly applies to when you are running the business as an aside to a full-time job or have other source(s) of income which you are using the business loss to write down the other income. There is definitely a limit to how long you can do that.


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