# Insurance



## MGuber (Jun 4, 2016)

Just a heads up to all ride sharers in PA. If you have Progressive insurance, cancel it now and go with Erie or Geico. Erie has much better rates and clear "three tiers" in their own Hybrid policies. Here's my story with progressive. I had a minor fender bender (off app and off line). Cost about 4000$ between repairs on the two cars. Other company saying I was at fault, but progressive is fighting that. Somehow, the Prog state claims investigator got involved and flat out asked if I drove for Uber. His reaction was less than excited. Long story short, because of this minor accident and the fact that I drive for Uber, my six month rates just increased 165% (about $750). I can understand increases and yes, $4K was paid out, but 165% is a bit excessive in my mind. First, this is the first accident claim that I have filed in 22 years. I've had maybe two tickets in my life, zero parking tickets and never any "unclaimed" accidents either. My credit is good, my insurance score looked fine through CLUE. I just don't get it other than the Uber thing. The State guy pretty much argued with me that I was driving to philly everyday multiple time from Pottstown for Uber which is flat out false. I live in Pottstown and keep it to Rofo, SC, Phoenixville, King of Prussia occasionally Exton and pretty much the furthest I go is Paoli because it often surges. Over the past six months, I've had maybe half a dozen trips to the city and most of them were Penn kids going back to campus after Villanova won the NCAA Championship game. The other part that I noticed in my renewal notice was a few addendums, which I'll give you verbatim. First, Parts I, II, III, IV, and V all involving liability. first party benefits, uninsured coverage, damage to a vehicle and even road side assistance. It states "We've expanded the livery exclusion to include all instances involving ride-sharing activity that involve the transporting of passengers or property for compensation or a fee. The change represents both a clarification and a reduction in coverage. We've excluded coverage for any vehicle while being used in connection with a personal vehicle sharing program that involves the sharing of vehicles in exchange for any compensation. This change represents a clarification." The second addendum, Part VII-General Provisions, states "We've clarified the Cancellation section to include "material concealment" as a cancellation reason. Please refer to your policy contract for the revised coverage and policy terms." The first part essentially says that they will not pay out for an accident if you drive for Uber, for the most part. I'm sure that you probably have to have your app open and running for them to be legally protected, but it still sucks. Say you open your app and go online while you run to the market real quick and get into an accident? You had no active fares, no passengers, no pings. Then there is the second part, which is much more broad stroke threatening. They will cancel your policy if they find out that you are drive for a ride-share service. Simple as that. I would think that Progressive, being one of the top five insurers in the country, would realize that ride-sharing is not going away. They need to adapt their models to accommodate this and yes, it will probably add $50-$100 to your premium, but you'll be covered until you actually have that rider on the clock in the vehicle. The Saudi Royal Family just invest something like $3.5 Billion in Uber. The Saudis don't throw good money at bad things as history has proven, especially large amounts like that. Moral of the story, we driver partners provide better, nicer, cleaner vehicles, decent personalities (in most cases), spring water/refreshments (one of the things I do) and lower fares and usually much shorter time to wait. Plus, and this will sound cheesy, but I think that we are saving lives. I can't even count how many riders I've had tell me that thanks for the ride man...much better than drinking and driving for a good price and decent car. Not to mention we actually decrease the amount of traffic on the roads, impacting accident frequency, saving people money, and helping the environment with less cars meaning less carbon emissions. So, I'm going with Erie. They have a very clear three tiered system that's basically normal personal coverage, then when your on the app enhanced "business vehicle type" coverage and then when you have a rider on the clock in the vehicle, Uber insurance takes over. They even say that they would deal with third tier claims case by case, which is awesome. Geico has almost exactly the same tier system, but the premiums seem to be much higher. These are the ONLY two carriers to offer these Hybrid policies for ride-share drivers in PA. I verified this with both the PIA and the Commonwealth of PA Insurance Agency. Also, PA Senate Bill 984 passed this past winter which is movement in the right direction. Again, we are not going away, especially with so much political pressure to have decent job numbers and with a $60Billion company lobbying for us. Do yourself a favor...switch to Erie or Geico to avoid any surprises with other companies. Also, if you don't mind, I would appreciate it if anyone who drops progressive or whatever insurer they are currently with responds, that would be awesome. I can then start to build some statistics on how much the bulk of insurers are loosing out on. Thanks for listening. MG


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

I'll respond when u provide a cliffnotes version or at least paragraphs....


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## MGuber (Jun 4, 2016)

Point well taken. Here are the cliff notes:
1. Progressive doesn't like Uber or Lyft even though they did a beta with Lyft in Texas last year.
2. I had a fender bender, total payout on claims appx $4000. Spotless record for the last 21 years including ticket and violations.
3. Progressive PA state claim rep interviewed me, asked if I worked for Uber, wasn't happy (btw the trip I was on was not Uber related when accident occured).
4. Next day I get renewal notice from progressive increasing my rates by 165% (for only a $4K payout and otherwise stellar driver. Progressive also adds two addendum first of which states that they expanded their "livery" read: ride-sharing policy to include never doing that or even being able to deliver something for compensation or fee, as in pizza. Second one stated that "material concealment" is grounds for cancellation. 
5. Solutions in PA are only companies Erie Insurance and Geico. They both have Hybrid policies that fall into three periods: 1 normal personal use 2. riding around with your Uber app open and online (expands coverage to hybrid business coverage, basically same benefits). 3. You have a rider in your car and the fare is active (personal insurance stops, Uber's kicks in).
6. Erie is by far the better choice in my opinion. Most likely better rates and customer service. Geico quote was pretty far out there.
7. Check with your personal auto insurance company in your own state to make sure that they will cover you from just driving around on errands to driving to pick up a pax and after you drop off the pax.
8. For those in PA, Progressive made it abundantly clear that they would most likely not cover an accident if my Uber app is on, even though I'm not in an active fare with a pax. 

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me and we can chat there or even on the phone. The only other option right now for car insurance if you do ride-sharing is commercial insurance which is WAY more expensive. Plus, Uber's systems are pretty good at tracking when your're on the app and online, so it's possible that your insurance company can use this against you and use a similar "material concealment" cancellation, leaving you on the hook for both your damages and that of the other person.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

well yeah most companies, not just progressive, won't cover you for rideshare related accidents
I just got errie rideshare insurance in my state a few days ago


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## uberator (Jul 4, 2016)

What rates is everyone paying for Erie in PA?


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## Ck45202 (Jun 12, 2017)

uberator said:


> What rates is everyone paying for Erie in PA?


I have statefarms rideshare insurance my personal policy is a 100/300/50 25k med 100/300 UnIns/UndIns , Roadside asst, Rental, $500 ded including rideshare is 756/6months on a 09 Pontiac 30y/o with a few suspensions but for minor issues.... Ive called all over to ever Insurance company and no one cal beat state farm... I am now getting ready to lease a 2016 Honda Civic through Uber and to add that car same coverage and to drop the Pontiac to liability only is only 252/mo

Recommend (Mark) at Randy Janiszewski in Horsham... they are amazing, my family has been with them for decades .... Cheapest and best insurance you can get, especially for Rideshare atleast as of now, 215-675-7212


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## SurgeWarrior (Jun 18, 2016)

I was quoted $77.00 per month from geico commercial for PA. This covers both personal and commercial use. I am a bit skepitcal because personal use insurance from geico was 111.00 per month. This policy for 77.00 will cover all the same plus rideshare. Any thoughts..fyi, full tort and 100/300k


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## mike gehman (Jan 12, 2017)

Your instinct to be skeptical is probably valid. Adding coverage but going down in price? I am an Uber driver part time and insurance agent here in PA. Your limits and full tort selection for that price seems low. Are you also getting physical damage coverage included in that pricing (ie, Comp, Collision)?
If you are saving premium, take some of the savings and increase your liability limits if you can afford it. As a rideshare driver, you have many unknown folks in your car that are less hesitant to sue you than a friend or family member. Meaning, if my friend gets hurt in my car, maybe they don't sue me. But if a stranger is hurt in my car during a commercial ride arrangement, you can bet they will lawyer up when hurt. Mike


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## SurgeWarrior (Jun 18, 2016)

mike gehman said:


> Your instinct to be skeptical is probably valid. Adding coverage but going down in price? I am an Uber driver part time and insurance agent here in PA. Your limits and full tort selection for that price seems low. Are you also getting physical damage coverage included in that pricing (ie, Comp, Collision)?
> If you are saving premium, take some of the savings and increase your liability limits if you can afford it. As a rideshare driver, you have many unknown folks in your car that are less hesitant to sue you than a friend or family member. Meaning, if my friend gets hurt in my car, maybe they don't sue me. But if a stranger is hurt in my car during a commercial ride arrangement, you can bet they will lawyer up when hurt. Mike


What am I missing??


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## mike gehman (Jan 12, 2017)

On the surface, I can't say you are missing anything. If it is a true commercial policy, there would be no distinction or decision to make in regards to full tort or limited tort. You said earlier it is Full tort. Just double check that. I just tried calling GEICO myself to get a quote for me to compare. I have a Ford F150 and GEICO advised they don't do it for trucks. So I couldn't get a quote for myself just to compare. Erie's coverage is for all platforms (Uber,lyft, amazon flex, etc). Erie would also include Uber Eats for example. The GEICO rep said you have to disclose/list each platform you drive for which may or may not affect premium. Only thing I can say is read the policy after you get it. All that matters is the contract (policy language). If you do buy this, I would welcome the opportunity to see the policy in full to review. I would also say this. Go to a handful of auto body shops in your area. Ask them directly, from their perspective, what are the best insurance companies in regards to fixing cars after a loss. You will get direct feedback about their experiences on what carriers are routinely better when it comes to claims. Hope that helps. I don't represent or sell GEICO products. I do represent Erie can only speak specifically to Erie policy. So unless I had the actual entire GEICO policy language, I am at a loss to offer more insight.


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## SurgeWarrior (Jun 18, 2016)

mike gehman said:


> On the surface, I can't say you are missing anything. If it is a true commercial policy, there would be no distinction or decision to make in regards to full tort or limited tort. You said earlier it is Full tort. Just double check that. I just tried calling GEICO myself to get a quote for me to compare. I have a Ford F150 and GEICO advised they don't do it for trucks. So I couldn't get a quote for myself just to compare. Erie's coverage is for all platforms (Uber,lyft, amazon flex, etc). Erie would also include Uber Eats for example. The GEICO rep said you have to disclose/list each platform you drive for which may or may not affect premium. Only thing I can say is read the policy after you get it. All that matters is the contract (policy language). If you do buy this, I would welcome the opportunity to see the policy in full to review. I would also say this. Go to a handful of auto body shops in your area. Ask them directly, from their perspective, what are the best insurance companies in regards to fixing cars after a loss. You will get direct feedback about their experiences on what carriers are routinely better when it comes to claims. Hope that helps. I don't represent or sell GEICO products. I do represent Erie can only speak specifically to Erie policy. So unless I had the actual entire GEICO policy language, I am at a loss to offer more insight.


Thanks for the feedback! I even called PA Dept of Insurance just to inquire if this policy seems legit ( legit company but the price threw me off) they went over the minimums and said to review it with the agent. Ill let you know what i decide.


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## FlexDriver2015 (Jul 20, 2016)

I have a rideshare policy and it's legit. Because it's a commercial policy, it covers all phases and personal use. You don't even need to use Uber's insurance. For those that had claims handled/denied by companies like Uber can tell you all about what they had to go through and why phase 3 insurance is so important.

I'm a big fan of the policy (at least for now). I've had it off and on for a couple of years now. It wasn't too expensive and they paid my claim in less than a week. No one else has anything like it. I checked with Erie too, but they don't cover all phases and requires you to go through Uber for certain claims. It also covers On Demand Delivery like Amazon Flex on the same policy at no extra cost.

It does ask for the names of the platforms but it doesn't change the price. I drive for Amazon and Uber and the agent said they just collect it in case they want to partner or offer a discount through different companies.


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## SurgeWarrior (Jun 18, 2016)

FlexDriver2015 said:


> I have a rideshare policy and it's legit. Because it's a commercial policy, it covers all phases and personal use. You don't even need to use Uber's insurance. For those that had claims handled/denied by companies like Uber can tell you all about what they had to go through and why phase 3 insurance is so important.
> 
> I'm a big fan of the policy (at least for now). I've had it off and on for a couple of years now. It wasn't too expensive and they paid my claim in less than a week. No one else has anything like it. I checked with Erie too, but they don't cover all phases and requires you to go through Uber for certain claims. It also covers On Demand Delivery like Amazon Flex on the same policy at no extra cost.
> 
> It does ask for the names of the platforms but it doesn't change the price. I drive for Amazon and Uber and the agent said they just collect it in case they want to partner or offer a discount through different companies.


Thanks..my shock was at how inexpensive it is. I will call them tomorrow to get it rolling.


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## SurgeWarrior (Jun 18, 2016)

mike gehman said:


> On the surface, I can't say you are missing anything. If it is a true commercial policy, there would be no distinction or decision to make in regards to full tort or limited tort. You said earlier it is Full tort. Just double check that. I just tried calling GEICO myself to get a quote for me to compare. I have a Ford F150 and GEICO advised they don't do it for trucks. So I couldn't get a quote for myself just to compare. Erie's coverage is for all platforms (Uber,lyft, amazon flex, etc). Erie would also include Uber Eats for example. The GEICO rep said you have to disclose/list each platform you drive for which may or may not affect premium. Only thing I can say is read the policy after you get it. All that matters is the contract (policy language). If you do buy this, I would welcome the opportunity to see the policy in full to review. I would also say this. Go to a handful of auto body shops in your area. Ask them directly, from their perspective, what are the best insurance companies in regards to fixing cars after a loss. You will get direct feedback about their experiences on what carriers are routinely better when it comes to claims. Hope that helps. I don't represent or sell GEICO products. I do represent Erie can only speak specifically to Erie policy. So unless I had the actual entire GEICO policy language, I am at a loss to offer more insight.


After I posted this, Geico insurance sent me a letter..dropping me but offered me commercial..so guess who is now a commercial customer! Haha!! I added rental so its 86.00 a month..woo hoo!


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