# Oh no, Fed Ex ground type model 😀



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Fed ground drivers don't make much , owner makes good $$, but some of them want out due to high stress. FedEx Franchises available all over the country.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/technology/uber-lyft-franchise-california.html


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

As stated in the article, there would be a new entity to share the money with -- the franchise owners.
If they need to raise fares to cover them, they could raise fares now and pay us some benefits and expenses.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Illini said:


> As stated in the article, there would be a new entity to share the money with -- the franchise owners.
> If they need to raise fares to cover them, they could raise fares now and pay us some benefits and expenses.


Tony Soprano and City Council members will inherit the franchises. :thumbup:


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Why would these companies do a franchise with uber?

What's their motivation exactly if uber./lyft have been kicked out of California?


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3606586-uber-lyft-consider-franchise-model-in-california-nyt

_New York Times_ sources say Uber (NYSE:UBER) and Lyft (NASDAQ:LYFT) are considering licensing their names to fleet operators in California.
Lyft tells NYT it has considered other options, but prefers a model where drivers remain independent but with an earnings guarantee and health care benefits available.
Uber confirms exploring the fleet model, but isn't sure it's viable in California.
The companies have asked an appeals court to pause the state's preliminary injunction requiring drivers to be classified as employees.


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## Selector19 (Mar 15, 2019)

So you can work for a fleet operator as an independent contractor but not directly for Uber or Lyft. Hypocrisy and double standards!


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Illini said:


> As stated in the article, there would be a new entity to share the money with -- the franchise owners.
> If they need to raise fares to cover them, they could raise fares now and pay us some benefits and expenses.


An extra middle man. Triple taxation. Take money from your fares to pay it back to you in the form of benefits you might not want. I am doubting this will favor drivers.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

Quoted article said:


> Uber confirms exploring the fleet model, but isn't sure it's viable in California.


And Über's current model is viable? What sort of losses need to be made before they are classified as viable?

.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

https://www.bizquest.com/business-f...17918/?q=a3dpZD02MiZsPVM0NSZsdHlwZT00MCZvPTE=https://www.bizquest.com/business-f...36164/?q=a3dpZD02MiZsPVM0NSZsdHlwZT00MCZvPTE=


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

There is no way Uber can become an employer. The liability, the taxes, the HR. And driver SHOULD NOT WANT TO BE EMPLOYEES.

Limited to 40 hours/wk. Per hour rate. Can be fired for being late/calling off. No OT. If Uber schedules you part time, you STILL don't get benefits.

All for what? If the losers that drive now don't want to work for fast food, why do they think that Uber will treat them any better than a fast food worker?

I'll take my work when I want schedule please.


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## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

Here is the article... https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...RzmRBB_DN7MgALFW7JYAsQ7J42M5yllMal-UIHwn8pWEA
At Uber, the effort drew inspiration from the company's operations in Germany and Spain, where transportation rules have already forced it to work with fleets, Mr. Kallman said.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Trafficat said:


> An extra middle man. Triple taxation. Take money from your fares to pay it back to you in the form of benefits you might not want. I am doubting this will favor drivers.


Exactly. You will not be an employee of Uber or Lyft but an employee for Bob's Rideshare and all Bob cares' about is getting as much money as he can from Uber and Lyft while paying his employee's as little as possible. You can bet it will never be more than minimum wage and minimal per mile.


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## billm (Feb 19, 2017)

Pretty much. Over here in rural west Tennessee, the FedEx Ground out of Humboldt pays a whopping $115 per day. Figure that for a 10 hour day, and that's $11.50 per hour. That's not a lot for handling packages for that time, and it shows. I had one delivery load on the truck 3 times recently before it finally got delivered, and the last one was left at my next door neighbor's house. You get what you pay for.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Selector19 said:


> So you can work for a fleet operator as an independent contractor but not directly for Uber or Lyft. Hypocrisy and double standards!


No

Drivers would be employees of the fleet operator The fleet operator would contract with Uber


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Exactly. You will not be an employee of Uber or Lyft but an employee for Bob's Rideshare and all Bob cares' about is getting as much money as he can from Uber and Lyft while paying his employee's as little as possible. You can bet it will never be more than minimum wage and minimal per mile.


Yea, but Bobs Rideshare has to hire the drivers as employees not independent contractors, doesn't make sense.


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## Selector19 (Mar 15, 2019)

oldfart said:


> No
> 
> Drivers would be employees of the fleet operator The fleet operator would contract with Uber


Tell me one reason I need this ****ing middle man fleet operator, who tell me what to do, between me and Uber/Lyft?

Big YES on Prop. 22.

**** fleet operators! &#128405;


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Selector19 said:


> Tell me one reason I need this @@@@ing middle man fleet operator


Lol, this isn't about you or your needs. There's nothing to tell you.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

NOXDriver said:


> Can be fired for being late/calling off.


So what? Drivers get fired 24/7 under the current system, often times for no legit reason.



NOXDriver said:


> you STILL don't get benefits.


Part timers would still get minimum wage, workers comp, FICA, and unemployment. Those are benefits.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Smoke and mirrors and a smaller piece of the pie for drivers at current rates.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I predicted this in May 2019 
*https://uberpeople.net/threads/are-...does-that-relate-to-uber.326691/#post-4997254*
The questions I have now are; How large a fleet will be required?. and the flip side of that...Will a one car fleet be accepted? 
Will territories be defined and "owned"? and Will the number of fleets be limited? or will it be a free-for-all?

I think Uber could continue to act as they do now ie contract with individual drivers; if they required us to incorporate, buy commercial insurance and get the necessary local permits.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

oldfart said:


> I predicted this in May 2019
> *https://uberpeople.net/threads/are-...does-that-relate-to-uber.326691/#post-4997254*
> The questions I have now are; How large a fleet will be required?. and the flip side of that...Will a one car fleet be accepted?
> Will territories be defined and "owned"? and Will the number of fleets be limited? or will it be a free-for-all?
> ...


Incorporation in California costs a minimum of 800 per year. Commercial insurance probly another 5K a year, at least.

Yea, drivers are going to be beating down Ubers doors.

They also probly would have to get their own operating authority from the PUC.

All before they can haul the first pax anywhere.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Guys I should throw in my 2 cents,

I actually drive for a "fleet" operator who has a deal with Uber.

The luxury vehicles (black car services) use xl/select to keep themselves busy when they are very unlikely to chauffeured fares.

the taxi service only gets pings when X/XL is surging but doesn't then unless business is slow. (Because Uber taxi itself doesn't surge)

this makes a situation where Uber taxi pings rarely happen.

the taxi drivers are ambivalent to the programs existence because they don't want to give Uber their cut at all.

Now If we blow up Uber/lyft and make them leave the state...

We are still better off not taking Uber pings and just doing in house stuff because of the too large cut they take, and during peak morning hours the chauffeur service doesn't take Uber pings anyway.

so I fail to see the motivation of why they would bother doing it after Uber gets kicked out

I mean after Uber/lyft get kicked out I see these services getting flooded with so much business they can't handle it all, why would any of them bother?


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

observer said:


> Yea, but Bobs Rideshare has to hire the drivers as employees not independent contractors, doesn't make sense.


It doesn't make any sense because now Bob's Rideshare will take another piece of the Uber/Lyft pie that won't go to the ants!


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Fusion_LUser said:


> It doesn't make any sense because now Bob's Rideshare will take another piece of the Uber/Lyft pie that won't go to the ants!


Or to Uber.

BTW, In California Uber could still be held responsible for Bobs Rideshares employees as a joint employer.

If Bobs doesn't pay it's employees, Uber could potentially be on the hook.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.la...joint-employer-labor-franchise-rule?_amp=true


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

observer said:


> Incorporation in California costs a minimum of 800 per year. Commercial insurance probly another 5K a year, at least.
> 
> Yea, drivers are going to be beating down Ubers doors.
> 
> ...


Exactly you gotta pay to play

In Florida I pay $150 for my llc and $6000 for commercial insurance (Liability only) and $100 for my airport permit


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

oldfart said:


> Exactly you gotta pay to play
> 
> In Florida I pay $150 for my llc and $6000 for commercial insurance (Liability only) and $100 for my airport permit


That"s going to seriously restrict the amount of drivers for Uber.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

observer said:


> That"s going to seriously restrict the amount of drivers for Uber.


Which should drive rates UP!!


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## OC-Moe (Oct 6, 2018)

Über and Lyft are drowning, any lifeguards wanna help?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

observer said:


> That"s going to seriously restrict the amount of drivers for Uber.


The expense ought to be mitagated somewhat if Uber reduces their fees by the amount they pay to insura us


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

oldfart said:


> The expense ought to be mitigated somewhat if Uber reduces their fees by the amount they pay to insura us


Or like pay $2+. a mile?

Getting $2.40 a mile i could make enough to cover the difference in commercial insurance in two days.

I worked Monday/Tuesday so far this week.

9:00 am to 9:00 pm minus a bunch of breaks Monday and 4:00 am to 9:00 am Tuesday. (I really slacked off Tuesday two hours was just sitting in front of a hotel not going to lie lol)

I made _$320_ during _these_ hours, look at THOSE hours, most of them are firmly in the "not stellar" hours of the day/week. Not like it was a busy Friday or anything, it was just monday/tuesday morning.

That was enough to cover the difference in commercial insurance. 2 days of work... not a week.. _two days_ for insurance.

We would be much better off getting paid more and getting our own insurance, that would allow us to hand out cards for repeat business and actually work as a small business, as apposed to just having to take everything from our corporate overlords.


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## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

Another garbage and elusive tactic to grab money from suckers. Who in their right mind would franchise a failing business that keeps losing money everywhere.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Or like pay $2+. a mile?
> 
> Getting $2.40 a mile i could make enough to cover the difference in commercial insurance in two days.
> 
> ...


Exactly

The $6000 I spend for insurance seems like a lot, but its really not.. Look at as $500/month or 8 cents/mile or $20/day Or just 10 private rides a month.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

This might be their best chance for some success.
https://www.thestreet.com/investing/uber-lyft-franchise-models-california


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Tony73 said:


> Another garbage and elusive tactic to grab money from suckers. Who in their right mind would franchise a failing business that keeps losing money everywhere.


There is money in the franchise slave business but like any business... there will be tools who will undercut your already low ball rates and before you know it, that low ball rate that used be the lowest around is now considered too expensive.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

oldfart said:


> Exactly
> 
> The $6000 I spend for insurance seems like a lot, but its really not.. Look at as $500/month or 8 cents/mile or $20/day Or just 10 private rides a month.


Ever consider a "for hire" dome light? (no idea on the legality in your area)



Tony73 said:


> Another garbage and elusive tactic to grab money from suckers. Who in their right mind would franchise a failing business that keeps losing money everywhere.





Fusion_LUser said:


> There is money in the franchise slave business but like any business... there will be tools who will undercut your already low ball rates and before you know it, that low ball rate that used be the lowest around is now considered too expensive.


Well the franchises have to charge a small enough amount that the drivers can afford to keep renting and still make enough money that they feel it's worth driving.

Lets say... $500 a week or $100 a day.

Now those franchises also will throw their drivers other calls, whether it's a phone number dispatch service, contract for medical transportation, or a courtesy transport with a high end car dealership, or hotel.. whatever..

Chances are high that uber won't be pitting the services against each other because if they do the services will just stop covering the uber fares.

At the company i drive for, the uber calls get largely ignored by the vast majority of the drivers over... the 20% extra uber is taking on every cab fare.

If there's a large difference between what uber is offering and what they get off anything else the drivers prefference will sideline the uber calls.

You know how much it takes for a taxi driver to say "the credit card machine is down"?

4%

20%?

That's about 5 times more than it takes for a driver to ignore those calls most of the time.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Ever consider a "for hire" dome light? (no idea on the legality in your area)


My permit allows for pre arranged rides only...no street hails I was doing ok just giving my card to the snowbirds I ubered to and from the airport and scheduling their next ride. The question is will they return this season?


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

oldfart said:


> I think Uber could continue to act as they do now ie contract with individual drivers; if they required us to incorporate, buy commercial insurance and get the necessary local permits.


So taxi's


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## EM1 (Apr 28, 2019)

With ongoing covid, massive layoffs n tanking economy Boobs rideshare may not do that well anyway and if uber is still part of the equation, theyll teach Boob the tricks of the trade in screwing drivers.


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## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

And a look at what Uber wants to happen in California.

https://www.google.com/url?q=[URL]h...wshahi&usg=AFQjCNHeWtsgKoYdLdJA5L8qVPq7X0cT9A


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

TBone said:


> So taxi's


How are we different than taxis now?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

oldfart said:


> How are we different than taxis now?


Your using your own car and taxis carry better insurance, and taxi drivers are taking a lower personal risk (not risking their car to some insurance loophole that could cost them 1000s)

Also in my town i can actually turn a profit driving a cab, not so with uber.

And finally, i'm not at risk of deactivation over false complaints.

So really, 3 big ones right there.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Your using your own car and taxis carry better insurance, and taxi drivers are taking a lower personal risk (not risking their car to some insurance loophole that could cost them 1000s)
> 
> Also in my town i can actually turn a profit driving a cab, not so with uber.
> 
> ...


Yeah but in order to drive a Taxi you have to dress like these guys...










And you have to deal with customers like this...


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

oldfart said:


> How are we different than taxis now?


stats now say we are food delivery drivers that also share our car with folks looking for a ride


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Your using your own car and taxis carry better insurance, and taxi drivers are taking a lower personal risk (not risking their car to some insurance loophole that could cost them 1000s)
> 
> Also in my town i can actually turn a profit driving a cab, not so with uber.
> 
> ...


We drive vehicles for hire and so do taxi drivers. In that regard we are the same

Who owns the vehicle, and how we are insured and whether we can turn a buck doing it has nothing to do with what we do which is driving for hire

It seems to me that in most jurisdictions taxis are regulated and we are not which accounts for the differences you cite

I guess that's my point, taxis are regulated, we are not

I'm no lawyer but it seems to me that if Uber would simply submit to local regulations (or made us comply) there wouldn't be a problem

By the way Lyft just pulled out of California rather than comply


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

NO WAY THAT WORKS W


mbd said:


> Fed ground drivers don't make much , owner makes good $$, but some of them want out due to high stress. FedEx Franchises available all over the country.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/technology/uber-lyft-franchise-california.html


"Things got worse when they brought in the ISP program. Basically, they thought, "how are we going to cover our behinds" and they made everyone have a huge work area. . . . And [so] you had to buy more service areas&#8230;I ended up selling out [my truck and two routes] in March. I wasn't going to deal with five trucks, five drivers, five times the insurance, five times the liability&#8230;they promised all the guys [who participated in the ISP], "Oh you'll make a million plus dollars a year with this new [ISP] contract." But the people that I know who stayed say that it's just horrible. Horrible. I see the trucks on the road and I just shake my head and think, "you guys are getting so screwed."



> "FedEx doesn't pay them [the ISPs] enough to really compensate the people who drive for them. A lot of them do not provide workers' compensation or provide overtime. One plaintiff from Alexander, for example, has nine drivers and four of them are on public benefits. And not because he doesn't pay them every penny he can. He does not even have health insurance for himself and his family."


https://www.onlabor.org/the-pitfalls-of-uber-and-lyft-as-franchisors/


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

oldfart said:


> We drive vehicles for hire and so do taxi drivers. In that regard we are the same
> 
> Who owns the vehicle, and how we are insured and whether we can turn a buck doing it has nothing to do with what we do which is driving for hire
> 
> ...


Lyft didn't leave Cali. They're not going to leave all the $ to Uber. The final details are still being worked out.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Yeah but in order to drive a Taxi you have to dress like these guys...
> 
> View attachment 500431
> 
> ...


Believe it or not...

I am subjected to a dress code that is dictated by The Walt Disney Corporation.

But thankfully they lifted the no beard regulation, so i took i advantage and I grew a cop stash right away.










The rest of the dress code i wear Khaki pants and either the Logo Poloshirts the cab company supplied/sold to me ($15, which isn't a bad price) or from my stack of poloshirts. Interestingly haiwaiiwn shirts are ligit as well.










Basically, the "Dopinder" look.










And blue jeans are technically no-go but disney stopped giving a crap about the "no denim" rule. Probably because we cause less problems than the uber/lyft drivers cause.

I mean when your dealing with 100s of idiots roaming your property who don't know the proper pickup/dropoff locations it's always fun.

I had one fare this week that was taking some poor tourists from the back employee entrance to the guest entrance of Universal studios. (About $8 believe it or not) That right there is the epitome of why Disney stopped caring about us wearing blue jeans.

The "wrong dropoff" just as an example.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

NOXDriver said:


> Limited to 40 hours/wk.


Oh no, 40 isn't gonna happen. You'll be lucky to get 20.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> An extra middle man. Triple taxation. Take money from your fares to pay it back to you in the form of benefits you might not want. I am doubting this will favor drivers.


Nope it would just be another party to take more of the pie from drivers and would add to the bureaucracy we have to go through. In areas without inspections and in person interviews and "bosses" we would probably get them. Get a complaint? Go in person to the franchise HQ and answer to the boss!! Why did you drive off on that woman at Walmart who wanted you to wait to complete a round trip after she bought all her groceries?!?! Passenger said your car had no working AC? Go to HQ for an inspection! You pay a $20 fee for the inspection by the way!

The only thing it would do is help shield Uber from the law and bad publicity to some extent.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

touberornottouber said:


> Nope it would just be another party to take more of the pie from drivers and would add to the bureaucracy we have to go through. In areas without inspections and in person interviews and "bosses" we would probably get them. Get a complaint? Go in person to the franchise HQ and answer to the boss!! Why did you drive off on that woman at Walmart who wanted you to wait to complete a round trip after she bought all her groceries?!?! Passenger said your car had no working AC? Go to HQ for an inspection! You pay a $20 fee for the inspection by the way!
> 
> The only thing it would do is help shield Uber from the law and bad publicity to some extent.


The thing about franchises,

There's zero reason for them to not be fleet owners.

57.5c a mile versus actual costs with in house mechanics and 3 models of cars...

They also have control over maitenance, ect ect and can set a lot of rules much easier. They can also sell ad space as well.

There's a lot of ways to save money there. And a penny saved is a penny earned.

The cheapest cab I rent (at full price, not Covid price) comes in to me at 45c a mile, and I know the cab company is turning a profit on me renting it for that price.

And that's all the cash they are getting off me. That and like 4% in credit cards, which is only marginally more than square, plus they have to pay a bank for credit card processing anyway so they don't even get all that.

The most expensive car I rent (full price) comes in at 60c a mile, and that's all they get off me for the car. (

There's no way a franchise wouldn't be a fleet owner renting cars (or paying employees) to use the company car.

But keep in mind, I've paid as Much as $150 to rent a car for 24 hours (with Uber in existence) in the last year. And still turned a good profit.

The 2 most important things you need to keep in mind are...

1. They need to have the prices much much higher than Uber/lyfts 53c a mile garbage

2. ALL expenses are on the fleet owner. Flat tire? Cracked windshield? AC fails?

yeah they cover all that.

for a day one driver all I needed to show up with was pants, shoes, a pen, and a working cell phone with a few voice minutes, and $20 in singles for making change.

That's an incredibly low barrier for entry, as long as the drivers can turn a profit they will have an easier time gettin drivers than Uber did,

If the drivers can't turn a reasonable profit consistently they will find they have no drivers.

that's another upside, you'll know exactly what your profit is. it's also a lower risk because it's not your car on the road.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Are taxi drivers in California independent contractors or employees

And if independent contractors, do they have to become employees too


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

The taxi service at the Fort Myers airport uses independent contractors. The company owns the cars and vans and provides insurance as well as maintenance and repairs the drivers pay for their own gas and keep the cars clean

Fares are split 50/50; drivers keep their tips 

Drivers line up at the airport and take the next ride whether it’s 2 miles, 20 miles or 50 miles, drop their passengers and return to the airport to wait in line again. They work every other day from the first flight in the morning to the last flight at night. 

It’s almost all old guys on Social Security and Medicare driving so no benefits is not a big deal

So what do you think; are these guys truly, independent contractors? or miss-classified employees


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

oldfart said:


> The taxi service at the Fort Myers airport uses independent contractors. The company owns the cars and vans and provides insurance as well as maintenance and repairs the drivers pay for their own gas and keep the cars clean
> 
> Fares are split 50/50; drivers keep their tips
> 
> ...


This was the predominant system in Daytona as well. 50/50 split. Yes, it is still miss classified employees. The company still regulated our dress. We did not have the right to refuse fares without having to justify it. Dispatch still decided who got what run. And there were all sorts of policies you had to follow.

Hint: the reason why most of the drivers are "old guys" on social security is because it's usually not enough to live on otherwise (you need another income source besides driving taxi in those places). I know when I dove taxi most of the younger drivers lived in weekly rent hotels and/or sleeping rooms. Most did not have a personal vehicle because they could not afford one. I remember one driver complaining to me that his weekly rent of $75 was too high. Without thinking I told him he was crazy. $75 is a great deal and about as cheap as it can get. I didn't realize until later that I was actually insulting him.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

touberornottouber said:


> This was the predominant system in Daytona as well. 50/50 split. Yes, it is still miss classified employees. The company still regulated our dress. We did not have the right to refuse fares without having to justify it. Dispatch still decided who got what run. And there were all sorts of policies you had to follow.
> 
> Hint: the reason why most of the drivers are "old guys" on social security is because it's usually not enough to live on otherwise (you need another income source besides driving taxi in those places). I know when I dove taxi most of the younger drivers lived in weekly rent hotels and/or sleeping rooms. Most did not have a personal vehicle because they could not afford one. I remember one driver complaining to me that his weekly rent of $75 was too high. Without thinking I told him he was crazy. $75 is a great deal and about as cheap as it can get. I didn't realize until later that I was actually insulting him.


I thought the same thing, Under the law, taxi drivers ought to be paid as employees too.

And I know about old guys. Uber supplements my social security, pension and savings. There's no way I could live the life I do on Uber alone. Not to mention working gives me a reason to get up in the morning

Im still left with the question. Are Taxi drivers in California, employees, or contractors?


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

oldfart said:


> I thought the same thing, Under the law, taxi drivers ought to be paid as employees too.
> 
> And I know about old guys. Uber supplements my social security, pension and savings. There's no way I could live the life I do on Uber alone. Not to mention working gives me a reason to get up in the morning
> 
> Im still left with the question. Are Taxi drivers in California, employees, or contractors?


I happened to know of a few taxi companies here and like many things,

It depends.

A few years ago I dated a young lady that dispatched at a small taxi company, mostly family members as drivers. The owner paid them as ICs but paid depending on how much they made in fares.

I also knew of a taxi company where I bought their scrap taxis about 20 years ago. They had just been through a lawsuit and wound up leasing cars to drivers for a set fee. I think they eventually went belly up.

A couple years ago I delivered parts to a local taxi company. The mechanic said the taxis were part of a co op and the owner had 2-3 cars. He and family members drove them. He paid drivers a commission.

The only version I think is a true IC is leasing the car for a fixed daily or weekly amount.

If the pay is dependent on a amount of fares the driver should be an employee.

That I know, California has not yet gone after taxi companies.

The ironic thing is, do taxi drivers fall under prop 22 or is it worded in such a way that they are locked out?

Uber isn't that dumb, I'm sure they wrote it to only exempt rideshare.

Taxis may have no choice but to abandon the taxi system and become rideshare themselves.

Uber threw their atomic bomb with this proposition.

The state could easily throw a thermonuclear bomb back at the TNCs.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

observer said:


> I happened to know of a few taxi companies here and like many things,
> 
> It depends.
> 
> ...


Are there taxi drivers that bring their own car and pay the company for dispatch. If so do you think they would be considered employees or contractors


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

oldfart said:


> Are there taxi drivers that bring their own car and pay the company for dispatch. If so do you think they would be considered employees or contractors


Not that I know of but that is exactly what I meant by the state throwing a thermonuclear bomb at Uber if prop 22 passes. I have seen some cars that are not painted like taxis they are regular colors and have stickers on the doors.

Because of the language in prop 22 the state won't be able to regulate TNCs in any way except to benefit TNCs.

What if the state created a different kind of transportation category. One where a driver brings his own car and pays a company to do everything else. Essentially deregulating the entire industry.

Drivers would become true independent contractors and would be free to choose from Uber, Lyft or a management company.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Ok, I was on another thread last night when @JonC said something about Uber and employees and it then hit me like a ton of










The reason Uber doesn't want drivers as employees is employees would be able to unionize. Uber would then have to negotiate a deal with a large group of drivers which could then strike and seriously cripple Uber.

By setting up a franchise system each individual franchise would have to be unionized independently. Thus making it harder for any strike to affect Uber.

Uber is again playing divide and conquer.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

observer said:


> Ok, I was on another thread last night when @JonC said something about Uber and employees and it then hit me like a ton of
> 
> View attachment 502197
> 
> ...


Uber's management isn't as dumb as some posters here claim.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

goneubering said:


> Uber's management isn't as dumb as some posters here claim.


That's what I've been saying. Uber is two steps ahead in their game.

Prop 22 was designed by Uber, FOR UBERS BENEFIT.

Uber does nothing to benefit drivers unless Uber gets more out of the deal.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

observer said:


> The reason Uber doesn't want drivers as employees is employees would be able to unionize. Uber would then have to negotiate a deal with a large group of drivers which could then strike and seriously cripple Uber.
> 
> By setting up a franchise system each individual franchise would have to be unionized independently. Thus making it harder for any strike to affect Uber.
> 
> Uber is again playing divide and conquer.


Seriously major point here.

I remember Lorena Gonzales AB5 lady,( Union backed) with a major Union in California Offered an exemption to U/L with the red line condition that drivers could unionize.

Just that in exchange for a exemption was rejected by U/L,


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