# When is it Appropriate to Ghost Ride a Pax?



## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

I have spoken about my philosophy of ABC - Always Be Compensated - quite a bit the past few weeks. As an IC, if you're not living ABC, you're not being fair to yourself. Today was an excellent day for driving on my fair city - I made exactly 22 times what I earned on NYE, but that shouldn't come as a surprise to most of us. Anyway, I had to ghost ride a pax today and it was a clear-cut justified ghostie. I caught a ping from the ******bag District and I arrived at the pin drop in exactly 4 minutes. I stopped right on top of the pin, texted the pax, and got no response. I called and got no response as he was in a loud bar. After a few minutes a gendarme told me to move my car, so I moved down the block. After two more minutes the pax calls me as asks where I am. I told him to give me his exact location and I told him what car to look for. Then I zipped around the block and stopped exactly where he said he was. I waited 30 seconds and he didn't show, so I ghost rode him for a $12 fare.

Clearly this was a justified ghost ride. Remember - ABC! So, what are the thresholds or parameters you use when/if to impose a ghost ride? Of course, we can't do a ghost ride once but every two or three weeks, so we have to be judicious. But what are your trigger points for implementing this technique?


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## CatnipHigh (Sep 23, 2014)

Um, I dont at all? You should have cancelled the fare instead of "ghostriding" it.


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## puber (Aug 31, 2014)

A friend of mine forgot to stop the meter on lyft after $5 trip , drove home, took shower, went to bed and then noticed and stopped the ride at $55 bucks.
The next day he got a daily summary with $12 tip on that trip


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> Um, I dont at all? You should have cancelled the fare instead of "ghostriding" it.


No revenue in that. Remember - ABC!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

puber said:


> A friend of mine forgot to stop the meter on lyft after $5 trip , drove home, took shower, went to bed and then noticed and stopped the ride at $55 bucks.
> The next day he got a daily summary with $12 tip on that trip


Now how can we not love a story like that? Who doesn't love a happy ending?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

puber said:


> The next day he got a daily summary with $12 tip on that trip


And how did he get a tip on the Uber app?


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## puber (Aug 31, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And how did he get a tip on the Uber app?


Read again or ask your daughter to read it 4 you


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And how did he get a tip on the Uber app?


Lyft


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## Raquel (Jan 9, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> I have spoken about my philosophy of ABC - Always Be Compensated - quite a bit the past few weeks. As an IC, if you're not living ABC, you're not being fair to yourself. Today was an excellent day for driving on my fair city - I made exactly 22 times what I earned on NYE, but that shouldn't come as a surprise to most of us. Anyway, I had to ghost ride a pax today and it was a clear-cut justified ghostie. I caught a ping from the ******bag District and I arrived at the pin drop in exactly 4 minutes. I stopped right on top of the pin, texted the pax, and got no response. I called and got no response as he was in a loud bar. After a few minutes a gendarme told me to move my car, so I moved down the block. After two more minutes the pax calls me as asks where I am. I told him to give me his exact location and I told him what car to look for. Then I zipped around the block and stopped exactly where he said he was. I waited 30 seconds and he didn't show, so I ghost rode him for a $12 fare.
> 
> Clearly this was a justified ghost ride. Remember - ABC! So, what are the thresholds or parameters you use when/if to impose a ghost ride? Of course, we can't do a ghost ride once but every two or three weeks, so we have to be judicious. But what are your trigger points for implementing this technique?


Instead of just ghost riding the PAX..You could have just kidnapped someone else and then held them for ransom.. or dropped by his house and kidnapped his wife for ransom.. Then sent the original PAX..a text saying this kidnapping courtesy of your friendly neighborhood Uber driver..

That way you're always being compensated..
(Sarcasm..in case some can't tell).


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## Krishna (Sep 4, 2014)

How much of this would be a problem if the charge for ordering a car and not showing just went directly to the driver without us having to fight for it?


Though I do have to laugh all the harder at all the "I took a $500 Uber trip and I don't even remember it cause I was drunk" stories.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Raquel said:


> Instead of just ghost riding the PAX..You could have just kidnapped someone else and then held them for ransom.. or dropped by his house and kidnapped his wife for ransom.. Then sent the original PAX..a text saying this kidnapping courtesy of your friendly neighborhood Uber driver..
> 
> That way you're always being compensated..
> (Sarcasm..in case some can't tell).


That is certainly another approach. I like your presentation. Made me giggle. But I have this weird proclivity of wanting to stay legal. Strange, huh?

Anyway, remember - ABC! We're IC's...we have to keep that in mind.


Krishna said:


> How much of this would be a problem if the charge for ordering a car and not showing just went directly to the driver without us having to fight for it?
> 
> Though I do have to laugh all the harder at all the "I took a $500 Uber trip and I don't even remember it cause I was drunk" stories.


You make an excellent point. So far, I have only ghost ridden drunks. And to date, I have yet to have a ghost ride reversed


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## Raquel (Jan 9, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> That is certainly another approach. I like your presentation. Made me giggle. But I have this weird proclivity of wanting to stay legal. Strange, huh?
> 
> Anyway, remember - ABC! We're IC's...we have to keep that in mind.
> 
> You make an excellent point. So far, I have only ghost ridden drunks. And to date, I have yet to have a ghost ride reversed


Just a sidenote...ghost riding a PAX..IS ILLEGAL..it's called fraud... and you could be both deactivated and arrested.. It's no different than a grocery store clerk "ghost" charging you for products you didn't buy..and running up your bill..and pocketing the difference..


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Raquel said:


> Just a sidenote...ghost riding a PAX..IS ILLEGAL..it's called fraud... and you could be both deactivated and arrested.. It's no different than a grocery store clerk "ghost" charging you for products you didn't buy..and running up your bill..and pocketing the difference..


Yeah, it's a misdemeanor that'd never be prosecuted, whereas kidnapping is a felony. You understand. But the key element here, Raquel, is ABC. Never allow yourself to be taken advantage of and ALWAYS BE COMPENSATED. Your time is too valuable not to be compensated for it. I've been a consultant/IC for nearly two decades so getting compensated for everything I do is part of my lifestyle fabric. But you have to be careful here and not ghost ride too often - only a couple times a month at the very most. My driver rating is currently 4.97, so I'm doing something right, we will agree.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Raquel said:


> Instead of ghost riding a PAX..you could easily create multiple accounts.. use the $20 coupon and ghost ride them.. easy money... I detail how to do that here..
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/easiest-way-to-make-your-guarantee.11054/


Hmm, now we're back to fraud, aren't we? But I like the creative way you think!


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## Raquel (Jan 9, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Hmm, now we're back to fraud, aren't we? But I like the creative way you think!


It's a lot more moral than ghost riding Pax..


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Dirty thief


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Raquel said:


> It's a lot more moral than ghost riding Pax..


Not true. Think about it. If a pax wastes your time by requesting a ride and then not showing up, that doesn't mean the pax is off the hook. Remember, we're IC's. First rule of being an IC is what? That's right - ABC, baybeeee. Ergo, the pax still owes you whether he/she ever gets into your car or not. You faithfully accepted the ping. You diligently drove to the pax location. You promptly notified the pax of your arrival. And then the pax decides not to show up. C'mon, Raquel, have some respect for yourself and your time. That pax needs to pay you. You can't give away your time. Your doctor doesn't give away his time. Your lawyer doesn't give away his time. Your computer guy doesn't give away his time. Your mechanic doesn't give away his time. Desert Driver doesn't give away his time, and neither should Raquel.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Simon said:


> Dirty thief


Exactly! Paxs who request rides and then fail to show up are simply dirty thieves. I couldn't agree more. Well stated, Simon. Thank you.


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## Raquel (Jan 9, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Yeah, it's a misdemeanor that'd never be prosecuted, whereas kidnapping is a felony. You understand. But the key element here, Raquel, is ABC. Never allow yourself to be taken advantage of and ALWAYS BE COMPENSATED. Your time is too valuable not to be compensated for it. I've been a consultant/IC for nearly two decades so getting compensated for everything I do is part of my lifestyle fabric. But you have to be careful here and not ghost ride too often - only a couple times a month at the very most. My driver rating is currently 4.97, so I'm doing something right, we will agree.


Since you brought up kidnapping again..make clear I was not actually suggesting anyone do that...And I made clear that was sarcasm...Ghost riding a PAX is a crime and it is more than just a misdemeanor. Most crimes in this category that involve fraud are charged as felonies regardless of the amount..

And of course you'd be prosecuted..imagine the newspaper headline "I got charged for a ride I never took" you best believe that uber will personally sacrifice you at the altar to avoid bad PR..


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Raquel said:


> Since you brought up kidnapping again..make clear I was not actually suggesting anyone do that...And I made clear that was sarcasm...Ghost riding a PAX is a crime and it is more than just a misdemeanor. Most crimes in this category that involve fraud are charged as felonies regardless of the amount..
> 
> And of course you'd be prosecuted..imagine the newspaper headline "I got charged for a ride I never took" you best believe that uber will personally sacrifice you at the altar to avoid bad PR..


If only, right? Again, you must be judicious and it really only works with drunks who have impaired judgment and memory. Not to worry - it's all good.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

I was calling the driver a dirty thief.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Simon said:


> I was calling the driver a dirty thief.


Not at all. Consider it a service charge for the pax's arrogance, rudeness, and inability to communicate. As drivers, our time is far too valuable not to be compensated for every moment we spend responding to or serving a pax, whether that pax ever gets in the car or not. As an IC, I cannot afford to give away my time. Neither can you, Simon. There is just not enough money here to be able to give away even a moment of your time, we will agree. The problem with your perspective, of course, is that you're thinking like an employee, not an IC. You simply cannot afford to do that if you're entertaining thoughts of making money here.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

puber said:


> Read again or ask your daughter to read it 4 you


Funny how every time you post here you show everyone exactly what kind of prick you are. Nice job - keep-it up.
A service industry job is just perfect for your personality.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Funny how every time you post here you show everyone exactly what kind of prick you are. Nice job - keep-it up.
> A service industry job is just perfect for your personality.


Ouch! That wasn't even directed at me and I felt it. But for the record, Mike, resorting to childish name-calling really drops you down to a level below the original disparaging comment by puber.
No need to thank me. I enjoy assisting my fellow Ubesters.


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Hmm, now we're back to fraud, aren't we? But I like the creative way you think!


I don't agree with either, but I agree with Desert even less. I think that instead of spending all the time and mental resources to come up with new ways to scam Uber or our pax, that effort should be put into an effort that actually means something. An effort that lead to more than a few bucks.

You are an IC...you don't get to set the rules. You accept the 'work' one job at a time under the terms that those who have arranged the work have determined. If you don't like those terms, don't accept the ride (job). As a person in business for yourself for two decades, you must know that sometimes IC work goes uncompensated. It's part of business. I certainly know that much prospecting work I put in as a real estate agent went uncompensated, yet I was an IC. As a small business owner, my sister occasionally opens her doors for a loss on the day. That's part of being out there on your own. Sometimes, a deuce requests a ride that they don't end up taking and we're left high and dry. Maybe the driver before you lucked out on a gut feeling and didn't accept the request, but you did.

Even a Mickey Mouse job like driving for Uber/Lyft comes with some risk. As long as your winning more than you're losing, all is good. If not, hang it up and take your fraudulent business practices somewhere else. Maybe if your motto was TTGCAMAREBBSFCTYMGSFTTT (try to get compensated as much as reasonably expected, but be somewhat ****ing cognizant that you might get stiffed from time to time), I would fall in line with you.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

>>>"As long as your winning more than you're losing, all is good"<<<

With Uber, the more you 'win', the more you lose!
(unless your time is worth less than min wage and your car gets 50MPG)


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Yeah, it's a misdemeanor that'd never be prosecuted, whereas kidnapping is a felony. You understand. But the key element here, Raquel, is ABC. Never allow yourself to be taken advantage of and ALWAYS BE COMPENSATED. Your time is too valuable not to be compensated for it. I've been a consultant/IC for nearly two decades so getting compensated for everything I do is part of my lifestyle fabric. But you have to be careful here and not ghost ride too often - only a couple times a month at the very most. My driver rating is currently 4.97, so I'm doing something right, we will agree.


Hey dude.. I do "not" agree"
Your 4.97 rating says nothing and means nothing to nobody..
In another post you admitted that you are what I call " begging for 5 Stars"
I don't like that and nobody else likes it either...
If I was your Pax one day and you kept begging me for 5 stars I just would talk nice to you and as I left your car I rated you 1 Star.

Your "ABC" is total BS.. and Raquel is totally right you should not just get de activated but also get dragged to court for theft or whatever it is.

I once hit the Lyft button by total mistake (swipe to request is replaced by tap to request and that's not good at all)
And a guy "ghostrided" me too.. I gave him 1 Star and requested a full refund by sending Lyft Support an email.
After 3 days the ride I never took was back on my credit card.

I am very worried that if I ever requested you by mistake that you might burn down my house to the ground.
I liked some of your posts so far, but "ghostriding" well that's just not right.
How can you even try to justify that? ABC? total bullshit !


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> Hey dude.. I do "not" agree"
> Your 4.97 rating says nothing and means nothing to nobody..
> In another post you admitted that you are what I call " begging for 5 Stars"
> I don't like that and nobody else likes it either...
> ...


You have an interesting POV, to be sure. You're struggling with working as an IC, and that's not uncommon with newbs. But you seen like an articulate bloke, so I'm confident you'll figure this out eventually
The point is, none of us likes to implement the ghost ride and I don't advise using it often. But as IC's we simply cannot afford to be taken advantage of and have time stolen from us.
FYI - I have never begged for a rating. That would be gauche and uncouth. What I do, however, is educate my paxs on the difference between interval versus ordinal statistical scales. Invariably, they appreciate the time I spend doing so. Yours will, too, if you can articulate the concept. 
Now that we have that cleared up, is there anything else I can assist you with?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> I don't agree with either, but I agree with Desert even less. I think that instead of spending all the time and mental resources to come up with new ways to scam Uber or our pax, that effort should be put into an effort that actually means something. An effort that lead to more than a few bucks.
> 
> You are an IC...you don't get to set the rules. You accept the 'work' one job at a time under the terms that those who have arranged the work have determined. If you don't like those terms, don't accept the ride (job). As a person in business for yourself for two decades, you must know that sometimes IC work goes uncompensated. It's part of business. I certainly know that much prospecting work I put in as a real estate agent went uncompensated, yet I was an IC. As a small business owner, my sister occasionally opens her doors for a loss on the day. That's part of being out there on your own. Sometimes, a deuce requests a ride that they don't end up taking and we're left high and dry. Maybe the driver before you lucked out on a gut feeling and didn't accept the request, but you did.
> 
> Even a Mickey Mouse job like driving for Uber/Lyft comes with some risk. As long as your winning more than you're losing, all is good. If not, hang it up and take your fraudulent business practices somewhere else. Maybe if your motto was TTGCAMAREBBSFCTYMGSFTTT (try to get compensated as much as reasonably expected, but be somewhat ****ing cognizant that you might get stiffed from time to time), I would fall in line with you.


See, but you're thinking like an employee who is accustomed to being taken advantage of. You're not alone - see the poll question above. People who are new to consulting/IC eventually figure out that they don't have to be taken advantage of and they DO NOT have to give away their time. That is, after all, why many of us go into consulting in the first place. As you do more consulting and IC work, you'll come to value your time more appropriately.
No need to thank me. I'm here to help.


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## DjTim (Oct 18, 2014)

Desert - I've said a few times, I like the way you think. You've brought this subject up a few times, and I've done gosting maybe 3 times, and I've never been charged back. The opportunity to do a ghost ride doesn't really happen that often for me at least.

I agree with the ABC concept, I generally add some language in the contracts that I sign to account for special circumstances when I know that the customer wants A, but you can see they really need B, and want to try and get B done at situation A's rates. 

I think what complicates the cancellation situation with either Lyft or Uber is that the fee isn't paid EVERY time. The monetary situation between the rider and the parent company isn't my concern, meaning I don't care if the rider has never canceled before - not really my problem. Just like hotels, airlines & car rental services - they generally charge a "no show" fee - doesn't matter if you have never rented/purchased before - you are "fined". Uber and Lyft should charge that fee every time, and if they wish to retract that fee from the rider, it shouldn't impact the driver because they still preformed a service. EVEN Redbox charges a person who doesn't retrieve their movie.

I know this statement is said in vein because it won't change, at least in the short term. It should be said that ghosting a ride could be playing with fire, and could really get you deactivated. As always YMMV, use at your own risk, and all that good jazz should be said up front.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

_


Desert Driver said:



The point is, none of us likes to implement the ghost ride and I don't advise using it often.

Click to expand...

_What's getting under my skin (and other's) is your sweeping generalizations and telling other's what they *should* do, rather than explaining what you do (and implying it's something they 'could' do if they so choose).

You want to intentionally employ a tactic which is illegal (and unethical), that's your choice -
but advocating for others to do the same is beyond the pale.

And the same goes for your personal understanding of how an Independent Contractor *should* be compensated -
it's your personal opinion, which is fine (even if it is easily discounted and dismissed),
but to tell other people how they should think and what they should do is just... well, I don't know... arrogant?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> What's getting under my skin (and other's) is your sweeping generalizations and telling other's what they *should* do, rather than explaining what you do (and implying it's something they 'could' do if they so choose).
> 
> You want to intentionally employ a tactic which is illegal (and unethical), that's your choice -
> but advocating for others to do the same is beyond the pale.
> ...


Mike, there is nothing immoral or unethical about being compensated for our time. I am not advocating or implying that we should look for ways to rip people off. All I have ever advocated is being fairly compensated for our time. As you delve further into IC/consulting work, this will make a lot more sense to you, assuming you are serious about earning a living in such a manner.
Again, no thanks necessary. I enjoy sharing my experience and success tips with others. That's part of who I am.


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## Trill Codby (Jan 12, 2015)

Ghost ride da whip??


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

DjTim said:


> Desert - I've said a few times, I like the way you think. You've brought this subject up a few times, and I've done gosting maybe 3 times, and I've never been charged back. The opportunity to do a ghost ride doesn't really happen that often for me at least.
> 
> I agree with the ABC concept, I generally add some language in the contracts that I sign to account for special circumstances when I know that the customer wants A, but you can see they really need B, and want to try and get B done at situation A's rates.
> 
> ...


Tim, it's always good conversing with you. It's refreshing and encouraging that there are others out there like myself who are trying very hard to make the Uber/Lyft experience positive for everyone, yet being honest in terms of what drivers can and should expect.


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Mike, there is nothing immoral or unethical about being compensated for our time. I am not advocating or implying that we should look for ways to rip people off. All I have ever advocated is being fairly compensated for our time. As you delve further into IC/consulting work, this will make a lot more sense to you, assuming you are serious about earning a living in such a manner.


"All I have ever advocated is being *fairly *compensated for our time". As an IC, since when is committing fraud against your clients considered being "fairly compensated"? Maybe where we are disagreeing is in our personal definitions of "fairly compensated". With that difference out of the way, we could probably come into agreement on many of ways to get that "fair" compensation.

Interesting to me is that you keep writing that everyone else is having a hard time grasping the IC concept and that we all have the employee mentality. I think you're about 180 off from that. An employee mentality is that one *SHALL *be compensated for every 0.1 hours put in. A person in business for themselves, such as an IC, arranges their business practices so that compensation is the norm, but not guaranteed. I get it, you've been doing this for a long time and I believe you when you say you have it works for your situation/business model. I'm not disputing what you say works for you and your business. What I _do _dispute is your vision of it being a normal or moral business practice and that others should consider doing it too.

There are many people in this world that justify scamming old people out of money, stealing credit card numbers, or just outright theft...their own ABC concept. They can spew all that stuff about getting what's owed to them, maybe by society or something. What you're advocating is just a more petty version of the illegal actions mentioned, and it _is _fraud, no matter how you justify it. If you blatantly want to state that you're okay with committing fraud to get the compensation you deserve, then it sets the record straight. That way, you're alerting others on here that "Hey, what I'm doing to compensate myself is fraud, so if you also choose to do it, you _too _will be committing fraud."


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Just for clarifications ghost rides (to me) can also be phony rides to get a driver rating up, NOT charging customers by ripping them off. Either done by friends or phony accounts set up by drivers. Some higher end drivers use this method to maintain their 4.9 or higher star count.

Important distinction. 

I would never advocate hammering a legit pax with a phony ride for many reasons. That will never pan out for anyone.


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Just for clarifications ghost rides (to me) can also be phony rides to get a driver rating up, NOT charging customers by ripping them off. Either done by friends or phony accounts set up by drivers. Some higher end drivers use this method to maintain their 4.9 or higher star count.
> 
> Important distinction.
> 
> I would never advocate hammering a legit pax with a phony ride for many reasons. That will never pan out for anyone.


I'm glad you clarified that because I actually was surprised to see you in agreement with ghost riding as Desert perpetrates. Re-reading what you wrote, it should have been obvious that meant to up your rating. If you ghost ride yourself to increase your rates, you're only charging yourself. Kinda hard to commit fraud against oneself, and I've not read anywhere that Uber list such activities as illegal. Nowhere in the contract does it state that I cannot give myself a ride. I've never done it, but don't have any heartache with it.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> I'm glad you clarified that because I actually was surprised to see you in agreement with ghost riding as Desert perpetrates. Re-reading what you wrote, it should have been obvious that meant to up your rating. If you ghost ride yourself to increase your rates, you're only charging yourself. Kinda hard to commit fraud against oneself, and I've not read anywhere that Uber list such activities as illegal. Nowhere in the contract does it state that I cannot give myself a ride. I've never done it, but don't have any heartache with it.


I don't advocate any business that requires sticking my neck in a legal hot spot OR going broke being a certainty.

I've already seen the decimation of an entire industry of working class people in the U.S. in the construction industry. Some of the same patterns are going on in this arena currently and NOTHING will be done to stop the abuses by regulators or politicians, largely because of mass population desperation.


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## driveLA (Aug 15, 2014)

Sometimes I get weird pings from people I suspect are drivers trying to distract me and keep me out of a surge area. 

I get to the address and then I talk to them on the phone and they sound all awkward like they are pretending to be at some bogus intersection that doesn't exist. 

One time I suspected this was the case. I cancelled the fare and then I got it again immediately hit arrived, no showed it and collected my 5 bucks. ****in loser wierdos.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> I am not advocating or implying that we should look for ways to rip people off.


You're justifying your own behavior. As I've said - it's your choice. But you have definitely been advocating for others to act in a manner contrary to the agreement they have signed with Uber, and to perform illegal acts.



> All I have ever advocated is being fairly compensated for our time.


That's just not true and is contrary to your posts.
If you want a job where you are compensated for your time, get a job that pays you for your time (ie: an hourly wage). Driving for a rideshare company (Uber/Lyft) is not a job like that - and it's not what you agreed to when you entered your agreement with the rideshare company. In a rideshare, you are compensated only for the time you have a PAX in your car (and the cancellations allowed per the terms of your agreement). If you don't like that, then advocate for a change in your agreement - don't make up your own rules that violate the policy you agreed to and are illegal.



> As you delve further into IC/consulting work, this will make a lot more sense to you, assuming you are serious about earning a living in such a manner.


You really don't know how silly you sound to older people like myself with decades of business and legal experience. And your condescending 'preaching' is laughable, (and I mean that in the nicest possible way - really!) You can make up your own definitions for things like "Independent Contractor" (which is a legal term defined by the IRS, not you) all you want - but your definition won't change reality.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You're justifying your own behavior. As I've said - it's your choice. But you have definitely been advocating for others to act in a manner contrary to the agreement they have signed with Uber, and to perform illegal acts.
> 
> That's just not true and is contrary to your posts.
> If you want a job where you are compensated for your time, get a job that pays you for your time (ie: an hourly wage). Driving for a rideshare company (Uber/Lyft) is not a job like that - and it's not what you agreed to when you entered your agreement with the rideshare company. In a rideshare, you are compensated only for the time you have a PAX in your car (and the cancellations allowed per the terms of your agreement). If you don't like that, then advocate for a change in your agreement - don't make up your own rules that violate the policy you agreed to and are illegal.
> ...


You have an interesting POV and I respect that. I suspect you and I are about the same age, but that you lack the practical experience I benefit from.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> "All I have ever advocated is being *fairly *compensated for our time". As an IC, since when is committing fraud against your clients considered being "fairly compensated"? Maybe where we are disagreeing is in our personal definitions of "fairly compensated". With that difference out of the way, we could probably come into agreement on many of ways to get that "fair" compensation.
> 
> Interesting to me is that you keep writing that everyone else is having a hard time grasping the IC concept and that we all have the employee mentality. I think you're about 180 off from that. An employee mentality is that one *SHALL *be compensated for every 0.1 hours put in. A person in business for themselves, such as an IC, arranges their business practices so that compensation is the norm, but not guaranteed. I get it, you've been doing this for a long time and I believe you when you say you have it works for your situation/business model. I'm not disputing what you say works for you and your business. What I _do _dispute is your vision of it being a normal or moral business practice and that others should consider doing it too.
> 
> There are many people in this world that justify scamming old people out of money, stealing credit card numbers, or just outright theft...their own ABC concept. They can spew all that stuff about getting what's owed to them, maybe by society or something. What you're advocating is just a more petty version of the illegal actions mentioned, and it _is _fraud, no matter how you justify it. If you blatantly want to state that you're okay with committing fraud to get the compensation you deserve, then it sets the record straight. That way, you're alerting others on here that "Hey, what I'm doing to compensate myself is fraud, so if you also choose to do it, you _too _will be committing fraud."


Chris, allow me to explain where the flaw in your logic is. I really don't mind. You're valuing someone else's time over the value of your time. As a consultant/IC, the first rule is no one's time is more valuable than yours.
I'm glad you brought this up and that it is now clarified.


----------



## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Just for clarifications ghost rides (to me) can also be phony rides to get a driver rating up, NOT charging customers by ripping them off. Either done by friends or phony accounts set up by drivers. Some higher end drivers use this method to maintain their 4.9 or higher star count.
> 
> Important distinction.
> 
> I would never advocate hammering a legit pax with a phony ride for many reasons. That will never pan out for anyone.


Same here. But if a pax wastes my time by not showing, he/she still has to pay me. That's just common courtesy and sound business sense, we will agree.


----------



## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Got my weekly driver report today. For the fourth straight week Uber congratulated me on receiving only five star ratings. Yes, we know the rating system is statistically flawed, but the kudos are still appreciated. 
Cumulative 4.97.
Folks, it really does serve you well to take the time to explain interval scales and ordinal scales to your paxs. Once paxs understand that a rating of 4 means "fire this driver immediately," they're genuinely sad that what they thought were high ratings were really death sentences. Why get a 4 when the pax really wants to give you a 5? A little education goes a long way.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Same here. But if a pax wastes my time by not showing, he/she still has to pay me. That's just common courtesy and sound business sense, we will agree.


Uh, no. It's only a legit ride once the pax enters the vehicle. Otherwise it's a short track to deactivation.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Uh, no. It's only a legit ride once the pax enters the vehicle. Otherwise it's a short track to deactivation.


On the other hand, my time is far too valuable to waste. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of the ghost ride by any means. However, I'm also not a fan of having my time wasted. It all works out just fine in the end. I never gr more than a few miles. All I ask for is to be compensated fairly for my time that was taken from me. That's why I never take unfair advantage of the gr - just make me whole for my wasted time, that's all. Nothing more and nothing less. That's not unreasonable, we will agree.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> On the other hand, my time is far too valuable to waste. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of the ghost ride by any means. However, I'm also not a fan of having my time wasted. It all works out just fine in the end. I never gr more than a few miles. All I ask for is to be compensated fairly for my time that was taken from me. That's why I never take unfair advantage of the gr - just make me whole for my wasted time, that's all. Nothing more and nothing less. That's not unreasonable, we will agree.


Pull that shit one time where I drive and the companies will deactivate immediately.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Pull that shit one time where I drive and the companies will deactivate immediately.


You have to be judicious.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> You have to be judicious.


There is no such animal as a judicious scam on a pax. You may have pulled it off once or twice til they bother to check their credit card bill and/or their rider app or even their email.


----------



## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> There is no such animal as a judicious scam on a pax. You may have pulled it off once or twice til they bother to check their credit card bill and/or their rider app or even their email.


You just explained for me why one must be judicious. Again, I'm no fan of the ghost ride. But I'm less of a fan of having my time wasted. As IC's we have to be compensated for our time, plain and simple. Being compensated for our time is not immoral or unjustified, after all. Playing the gr card more than once a month is likely a risk one may not want to take.


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## Krishna (Sep 4, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> You just explained for me why one must be judicious. Again, I'm no fan of the ghost ride. But I'm less of a fan of having my time wasted. As IC's we have to be compensated for our time, plain and simple. Being compensated for our time is not immoral or unjustified, after all. Playing the gr card more than once a month is likely a risk one may not want to take.


You know, in Paris (or so I've heard), if you order a cab, you have to pay the mileage for the cab to come pick you up, AND take you where you are going. I could see how this could lead to abuse in the old days, but with smartphone-tracked cars, this could be a smart way to be sure drivers are compensated for all the driving they do for an order, without having to take a risk on ghost riding.


----------



## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Krishna said:


> You know, in Paris (or so I've heard), if you order a cab, you have to pay the mileage for the cab to come pick you up, AND take you where you are going. I could see how this could lead to abuse in the old days, but with smartphone-tracked cars, this could be a smart way to be sure drivers are compensated for all the driving they do for an order, without having to take a risk on ghost riding.


That's an excellent point. Leave it to a Tusconan to raise the level of discourse. Well done!

Anymore, when a ping comes in that's more than 10 minutes away, I let it expire. Nine times out of ten the actual ride is shorter than the distance I traveled to get to the pax. And now we're back to wasted time for which I will never be compensated.


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## Krishna (Sep 4, 2014)

Plenty of time to sit around thinking here in the Old Pueblo...

And here in Tucson, we have sprawl, which leads to just the problem you are talking about. 

Now think, if you were paid for the distance to pick up, you would be getting paid instead of sitting around ignoring pings. 

ALSO: this idea is better and fairer than surge pricing for getting cars on the road and thinning out the stupider side of demand.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Krishna said:


> Plenty of time to sit around thinking here in the Old Pueblo...
> 
> And here in Tucson, we have sprawl, which leads to just the problem you are talking about.
> 
> ...


No rational person will argue with your logic, Krishna.


----------



## DjTim (Oct 18, 2014)

driveLA said:


> Sometimes I get weird pings from people I suspect are drivers trying to distract me and keep me out of a surge area.
> 
> I get to the address and then I talk to them on the phone and they sound all awkward like they are pretending to be at some bogus intersection that doesn't exist.
> 
> One time I suspected this was the case. I cancelled the fare and then I got it again immediately hit arrived, no showed it and collected my 5 bucks. ****in loser wierdos.


I've actually suspected someone near me in the northern suburbs of doing something like this. I haven't posted before about it because it makes you look like a paranoid driver. I can't tell if the person is a cab driver or an actual Uber driver. It has happened at least once a week, but during a busy period, in the same area/suburb. I'll see 3 drivers around me, one disappears, then another, then I get a ping, driver to location and when I hit arrive, it's an instant cancel, and then I notice the other 2 drivers on the rider app, going/driving back to where they were. I think the other drivers were also "pinged" by this person.

If someone has the time and energy to **** with drivers it would actually actually sadden me a bit. This is why I guess I would feel paranoid - because really to "spoof" a rider, it takes a bit of time, effort, forethought & determination to get that going. Maybe I'm just lazy and wouldn't put that much effort into screwing with people.


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## Chicago-uber (Jun 18, 2014)

DjTim said:


> I've actually suspected someone near me in the northern suburbs of doing something like this. I haven't posted before about it because it makes you look like a paranoid driver. I can't tell if the person is a cab driver or an actual Uber driver. It has happened at least once a week, but during a busy period, in the same area/suburb. I'll see 3 drivers around me, one disappears, then another, then I get a ping, driver to location and when I hit arrive, it's an instant cancel, and then I notice the other 2 drivers on the rider app, going/driving back to where they were. I think the other drivers were also "pinged" by this person.
> 
> If someone has the time and energy to **** with drivers it would actually actually sadden me a bit. This is why I guess I would feel paranoid - because really to "spoof" a rider, it takes a bit of time, effort, forethought & determination to get that going. Maybe I'm just lazy and wouldn't put that much effort into screwing with people.


Had the same thing happen to me in northbrook area. Is the person's name Joseph? Cancelled on me 3 times.

Also, if I send a text after being cancelled on, will it go to the person who cancelled on me?


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## DjTim (Oct 18, 2014)

Chicago-uber said:


> Had the same thing happen to me in northbrook area. Is the person's name Joseph? Cancelled on me 3 times.
> 
> Also, if I send a text after being cancelled on, will it go to the person who cancelled on me?


Northbrook is close, it was happening to me in Libertyville/Vernon Hills. The names were different a few times, but Joseph sounds familiar, it could have been one. I can say every time the rider was always had 5 stars, or in other words a new account/rider. Like I said - I don't want to sound like a paranoid driver. I mean all it takes is a Google number & a new e-mail address. I don't think they link credit cards or deny credit cards if they use a new e-mail address with a card already registered and a different rider name.

One thing that I've noticed with Northbrook/Riverwoods/Highland Park/Highwood - There aren't many X drivers, but a TON of black car drivers because of the high-income in those areas. You will get a ping and then maybe in a few minutes a cancel - I think that has to do with black car availability. I haven't messed with the rider app enough to know if you can request X/XL and still look for black car availability and then cancel your previous request.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You're justifying your own behavior. As I've said - it's your choice. But you have definitely been advocating for others to act in a manner contrary to the agreement they have signed with Uber, and to perform illegal acts.
> 
> That's just not true and is contrary to your posts.
> If you want a job where you are compensated for your time, get a job that pays you for your time (ie: an hourly wage). Driving for a rideshare company (Uber/Lyft) is not a job like that - and it's not what you agreed to when you entered your agreement with the rideshare company. In a rideshare, you are compensated only for the time you have a PAX in your car (and the cancellations allowed per the terms of your agreement). If you don't like that, then advocate for a change in your agreement - don't make up your own rules that violate the policy you agreed to and are illegal.
> ...


Mike, you make a lot of assumptions in your comments,that are far from accurate. You don't really have legal training, do you (that was a rhetorical question, of course) because if you did you'd refrain from your silly (albeit, entertaining) assumptions. But I have to say, and I mean this sincerely, I enjoy conversing with you and sharing my experience for your benefit. We're apparently about the same age, so we are colleagues and peers.


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## OCBob (Jan 20, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> That is certainly another approach. I like your presentation. Made me giggle. But I have this weird proclivity of wanting to stay legal. Strange, huh?
> 
> Anyway, remember - ABC! We're IC's...we have to keep that in mind.
> 
> You make an excellent point. So far, I have only ghost ridden drunks. And to date, I have yet to have a ghost ride reversed


I started and cancelled a ride (I told the drunk I was starting the trip in place in 2 minutes if he isn't done with his drink) but never left. I could have cancelled and I am sure he would have had the $5 fee but I felt it was better to get it close to $5 (even though I would lose $1 and 20%) so I could leave him a 1 star rating. Cancellation, for some stupid Uber reason, doesn't allow you to rate the drunk. Well, he complained about the charge as he never got the ride. I emailed back saying about the drunk and interactions with him and I got to keep the small fare and he got the 1 star rating. Best line from him when I told him he needs to come out to the car, "Not gonnnna haaaaapppppan!"

We should be getting a bigger cut after 12am on non surge pricing. ****ing drunks.


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## IbedrivinUX (Oct 20, 2014)

OCBob said:


> I started and cancelled a ride (I told the drunk I was starting the trip in place in 2 minutes if he isn't done with his drink) but never left. I could have cancelled and I am sure he would have had the $5 fee but I felt it was better to get it close to $5 (even though I would lose $1 and 20%) so I could leave him a 1 star rating. Cancellation, for some stupid Uber reason, doesn't allow you to rate the drunk. Well, he complained about the charge as he never got the ride. I emailed back saying about the drunk and interactions with him and I got to keep the small fare and he got the 1 star rating. Best line from him when I told him he needs to come out to the car, "Not gonnnna haaaaapppppan!"
> 
> We should be getting a bigger cut after 12am on non surge pricing. *****ing drunks.*


 * ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^* EXACTLY WHY I AM LEAVING UBER! THE ONLY TIME WHEN IT IS GOOD IS WHEN THE DRUNKS ARE OUT!


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## IbedrivinUX (Oct 20, 2014)

*YES YES YES I Did it again! 5 Star Rating!! Uber **** You!


2WHAT YOUR RIDERS SAID*
5.0★
DRIVER RATINGNice work, your driver rating last week was *above average*.
*RIDER FEEDBACK*
You received *24* five-star reviews out of 24 rated trips in the past two weeks. We wanted to share what some of these riders had to say.

"Billy Bob was right on time and very courteous"


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Mike, you make a lot of assumptions in your comments, that are far from accurate. You don't really have legal training, do you (that was a rhetorical question, of course) because if you did you'd refrain from your silly (albeit, entertaining) assumptions. But I have to say, and I mean this sincerely, I enjoy conversing with you and sharing my experience for your benefit. We're apparently about the same age, so we are colleagues and peers.


Au contraire, mon ami - it is you who makes assumptions, about the law, about what is 'fair' -
and annoyingly, about other's experience and knowledge.

You're obviously bright...
I hope you'll take the time and make the effort to learn more about something when other's call you on it... so much of what you post is valuable, it's a shame to see you post mis-information or call for others to do something that is misguided at best, and illegal at worst.










[While the legal training I have is not in criminal law, it is in labor law (worker classification, employment contracts, regulatory compliance) and tax law (regarding private sector employment). I am a paid consultant in the areas of employment law, labor regulatory compliance, and tax compliance issues. I speak on the topics regularly and have been published and quoted in the WSJ on these subjects for the past 13 years.]


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Simon said:


> Dirty thief


For the record, I shower before every driving shift and I use an anti-bacterial soap. I'm actually very clean and presentable, as is my automobile, of course.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Whatever thief.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Simon said:


> Whatever thief.


Actually, I've found another accepted means of dealing with lackadaisical paxs by starting a stopwatch as soon as I arrive, then canceling at 5:01 and collecting my $8 fee. That has cut way down on the need to ghost ride, and it's perfectly within Uber's rules...so it's all good! Now you know. Always remember - ABC!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> For the record, I shower before every driving shift and I use an anti-bacterial soap. I'm actually very clean and presentable, as is my automobile, of course.


There's a lot of evidence that using antibacterial products contributes to resistance. Using regular soap is best.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> There's a lot of evidence that using antibacterial products contributes to resistance. Using regular soap is best.


Actually I use pure olive oil soap. And that's the only soap I use. Nearly every soap has antibacterial properties, whether it says so or not. (I used to work for Dial, so I learned first hand that this whole antibacterial drive is total horseshit. It's purely marketing.)


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## puber (Aug 31, 2014)

puber said:


> A friend of mine forgot to stop the meter on lyft after $5 trip , drove home, took shower, went to bed and then noticed and stopped the ride at $55 bucks.
> The next day he got a daily summary with $12 tip on that trip


Lyft fired him after his rating dived to 4.??

His car was too old to uber.

They even deleted his picture from the app, stating that he could still use lyft as a rider, cocksuckers.

He bought another car and has 4.71 on uber now.
Fick lyft with no second chance and other shit.
Ubet on!


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## Cooluberdriver (Nov 29, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Same here. But if a pax wastes my time by not showing, he/she still has to pay me. That's just common courtesy and sound business sense, we will agree.


I am sorry, but I think everyone here will agree. You make us black car drivers look bad and put a bad name to our profession. You are so ignorant that you deserve to be jailed. It is a crime to charge someone that you cannot see. Period


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> I am sorry, but I think everyone here will agree. You sir are a flaming ****. You make us black car drivers look bad and put a bad name to our profession. You are so ignorant that you deserve to be jailed. It is a crime to charge someone that you cannot see. Period


agree about what? you say several things in your post andI don't think I agree with all of them I don't know about the flaming **** part but that's not really an insult in my book anyway


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## Cooluberdriver (Nov 29, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> agree about what? you say several things in your post andI don't think I agree with all of them I don't know about the flaming **** part but that's not really an insult in my book anyway


I am referencing to desert driver. You are clearly not him.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> I am sorry, but I think everyone here will agree. You sir are a flaming ****. You make us black car drivers look bad and put a bad name to our profession. You are so ignorant that you deserve to be jailed. It is a crime to charge someone that you cannot see. Period


That's an interesting POV, to be sure. My business model requires me to be paid for my time, and it has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
Is there anything else I can help you to grasp, or are we good for now?


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Not quite.. Can you explain it all over again, and summarize the thread again.


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> I am referencing to desert driver. You are clearly not him.


I'm not a fan of @Desert Driver and his ******baggery either, but the "flaming ****" thing proves that you are an even bigger ******. I don't think you need to worry about anyone else making you "look bad"...you've done that just fine all by your dumbass self!


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## Cooluberdriver (Nov 29, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> I'm not a fan of @Desert Driver and his ******baggery either, but the "flaming ****" thing proves that you are an even bigger ******. I don't think you need to worry about anyone else making you "look bad"...you've done that just fine all by your dumbass self!


The part of him talking about what soap he showers with, led Me to the flaming **** part. It was kind of **** tho.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> I'm not a fan of @Desert Driver and his ******baggery either, but the "flaming ****" thing proves that you are an even bigger ******. I don't think you need to worry about anyone else making you "look bad"...you've done that just fine all by your dumbass self!


That's pretty funny, Chris. Good one!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> The part of him talking about what soap he showers with, led Me to the flaming **** part. It was kind of **** tho.


What, like you don't have a preferred soap? It's ok to have a preference.


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## Cooluberdriver (Nov 29, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> What, like you don't have a preferred soap? It's ok to have a preference.


No man, I buy any soap. Now shampoo is a different story and I am a Nioxin user by trade.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> No man, I buy any soap. Now shampoo is a different story and I am a Nioxin user by trade.


I have a shaved head. No shampoo for this caballero. Olive oil soap keeps the dome looking sporty and sleek.


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## Cooluberdriver (Nov 29, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> I have a shaved head. No shampoo for this caballero. Olive oil soap keeps the dome looking sporty and sleek.


I started a thread called who are uber drivers, I would be interested if you would contribute there.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> I started a thread called who are uber drivers, I would be interested if you would contribute there.


Sure. I'll have a look.


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## Cooluberdriver (Nov 29, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Sure. I'll have a look.


Thanks, it is under advice.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> I am referencing to desert driver. You are clearly not him.


You said "I think everyone will agree". I don't. I think I'm a part of everyone.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> The part of him talking about what soap he showers with, led Me to the flaming **** part. It was kind of **** tho.


Straight people don't have opinions on soap? Or are u straight and don't bathe and assume that's the norm?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Straight people don't have opinions on soap? Or are u straight and don't bathe and assume that's the norm?


That's pretty funny, Fuzz. I have a few fuzzy critters like you in my humble abode, too.


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## Selcric (Sep 1, 2014)

I only ghost ride the whip, never the pax.


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## Cooluberdriver (Nov 29, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Straight people don't have opinions on soap? Or are u straight and don't bathe and assume that's the norm?


You guys are fun.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> You guys are fun.


That's how we roll.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Selcric said:


> I only ghost ride the whip, never the pax.
> 
> View attachment 6211


Cool.
Now that cancel rates are finally up to $10, I haven't done a ghostie in better than two months. We're glad to see Uber finally got right about paxs who fail to follow through on their ride request.
Remember, the customer is always right...except for the 90 percent of cases in which they're dead-ass friggin' wrong.


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## Selcric (Sep 1, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> That's how we roll.












Hyphy fo' lyphy - just finished my Thizz, damn right that's how we roll!


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> I have spoken about my philosophy of ABC - Always Be Compensated - quite a bit the past few weeks. As an IC, if you're not living ABC, you're not being fair to yourself. Today was an excellent day for driving on my fair city - I made exactly 22 times what I earned on NYE, but that shouldn't come as a surprise to most of us. Anyway, I had to ghost ride a pax today and it was a clear-cut justified ghostie. I caught a ping from the ******bag District and I arrived at the pin drop in exactly 4 minutes. I stopped right on top of the pin, texted the pax, and got no response. I called and got no response as he was in a loud bar. After a few minutes a gendarme told me to move my car, so I moved down the block. After two more minutes the pax calls me as asks where I am. I told him to give me his exact location and I told him what car to look for. Then I zipped around the block and stopped exactly where he said he was. I waited 30 seconds and he didn't show, so I ghost rode him for a $12 fare.
> 
> Clearly this was a justified ghost ride. Remember - ABC! So, what are the thresholds or parameters you use when/if to impose a ghost ride? Of course, we can't do a ghost ride once but every two or three weeks, so we have to be judicious. But what are your trigger points for implementing this technique?


Most people would call that stealing. You are no better than the cab drivers people complain about. Theft is theft.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Cooluberdriver said:


> I am sorry, but I think everyone here will agree. You sir are a flaming ****. You make us black car drivers look bad and put a bad name to our profession. You are so ignorant that you deserve to be jailed. It is a crime to charge someone that you cannot see. Period


I replaced "flaming ****" with "midget" and was offended.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> Most people would call that stealing. You are no better than the cab drivers people complain about. Theft is theft.


Yeah, now that cancel rates are appropriate, I don't need to do this like I used to. We were glad to see that Uber go right about this. See, I have a company policy of ABC - Always Be Compensated. So, if I move my car on a rider's behalf, I have to be compensated. But the ghostie is no longer necessary and I'm very happy about that.


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Yeah, now that cancel rates are appropriate, I don't need to do this like I used to. We were glad to see that Uber go right about this. See, I have a company policy of ABC - Always Be Compensated. So, if I move my car on a rider's behalf, I have to be compensated. But the ghostie is no longer necessary and I'm very happy about that.


I dont know how people who do that sleep at night. I guess we're just wired differently.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> I dont know how people who do that sleep at night. I guess we're just wired differently.


Yeah, if I put in effort on a rider's request, I made the trip, and the rider didn't show, and I made no money, I'd have a tough time falling asleep after being taken advantage of. Remember, we're IC's. As such, no one's time is more valuable than ours. ABC! Always Be Compensated. We're not charity drivers, after all. If I wanted to do charity driving, I'd deliver meals to shut-ins. It's just common business sense, that's all.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> That's pretty funny, Fuzz. I have a few fuzzy critters like you in my humble abode, too.


I assume you know this wasn't directed at you?!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Yeah, now that cancel rates are appropriate, I don't need to do this like I used to. We were glad to see that Uber go right about this. See, I have a company policy of ABC - Always Be Compensated. So, if I move my car on a rider's behalf, I have to be compensated. But the ghostie is no longer necessary and I'm very happy about that.


Our cancel here is $6. But I think we also need a fee earlier than 5 mins for when we're on the way. I have pulled up to a location and been canceled and its 4 minutes since they ordeted so I get nothing. Should be 30 seconds or a minute. I can drive miles in 5 mins. And the no show should be 2 or 3 not 5.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Our cancel here is $6. But I think we also need a fee earlier than 5 mins for when we're on the way. I have pulled up to a location and been canceled and its 4 minutes since they ordeted so I get nothing. Should be 30 seconds or a minute. I can drive miles in 5 mins. And the no show should be 2 or 3 not 5.


No rational person will argue with that. I like the way Lyft does it - one minute after arrival the trip starts without any intervention from the driver.


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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

Our fee for a no show driver is $10. I'd rather just sit there for 5 minutes, collect my $10 and be on my way.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

TimFromMA said:


> Our fee for a no show driver is $10. I'd rather just sit there for 5 minutes, collect my $10 and be on my way.


Yup. That's what I do now, too. It's a solid strategy. And I never call or text pax. I'm not a nanny.


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## victorious52 (Mar 20, 2015)

yeah i wouldn't ghostride , or kidnap ...who knows maybe the guy would actaully like the kidnapping, he was in the bar alone right, maybe drinking to forget her!?  nah this is part of the job ok, sometimes this happens, sometimes they get charged $5 sometimes not, if they are new or whatever. 1,000 years from now, who will care right?


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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

Oops I meant rider NOT driver.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

victorious52 said:


> yeah i wouldn't ghostride , or kidnap ...who knows maybe the guy would actaully like the kidnapping, he was in the bar alone right, maybe drinking to forget her!?  nah this is part of the job ok, sometimes this happens, sometimes they get charged $5 sometimes not, if they are new or whatever. 1,000 years from now, who will care right?


Exactly. I'm not allowed to move my car so much as one foot for the benefit of a pax without being compensated. But now that cancel rates are more in line with the value of my time, I don't have to ghost ride as often. Haven't had to do one in better than two months. I'm happy about that.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Simon said:


> Dirty thief


What right does another human being have to request my services and not be willing to pay when I attend as requested?

They are stealing my time, and keeping me from other legitimate moneymaking opportunities.

I didn't know this caper was called "ghost riding". I've done it once when it was clear that the prick wasn't coming out after saying so twice and sitting reclined in his chair by the window. Started the trip, followed the Nav route completed the fare. Got paid.


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Yup. That's what I do now, too. It's a solid strategy. And I never call or text pax. I'm not a nanny.


It's a solid strategy if you want people to get pissed and never use Uber again. Great plan of action, sure to help everyone; NOT!


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> It's a solid strategy if you want people to get pissed and never use Uber again. Great plan of action, sure to help everyone; NOT!


Ok, be happy playing the victim.


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## JohninTampa (Mar 26, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Yeah, it's a misdemeanor that'd never be prosecuted, whereas kidnapping is a felony. You understand. But the key element here, Raquel, is ABC. Never allow yourself to be taken advantage of and ALWAYS BE COMPENSATED. Your time is too valuable not to be compensated for it. I've been a consultant/IC for nearly two decades so getting compensated for everything I do is part of my lifestyle fabric. But you have to be careful here and not ghost ride too often - only a couple times a month at the very most. My driver rating is currently 4.97, so I'm doing something right, we will agree.


Uber has clear rules on how to be compensated for no shows. Since you are talking lyft' the rules maybe different, but I am sure they do not allow for fraud and theft and that is what you are admitting to. Please don't expect the non criminals to agree with your justification.
You will be caught, and you will still not learn.


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## my3centsSTEW (Mar 27, 2015)

This must a riot on Halloween night. BOO!!!!!!


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

Sydney Uber said:


> Ok, be happy playing the victim.


I'd rather play the part of a victim than an outright _thief_, which is what you are.

There are legal remedies to deal with these things. Being a crook isn't one of them.


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## JohninTampa (Mar 26, 2015)

UberOnSD said:


> It's a solid strategy if you want people to get pissed and never use Uber again. Great plan of action, sure to help everyone; NOT!





Desert Driver said:


> Exactly! Paxs who request rides and then fail to show up are simply dirty thieves. I couldn't agree more. Well stated, Simon. Thank you.


Wah-wah!
Calling a no show a thief is a rediculous stretch of the imagination. They have rules and charges resulting from this too. Grow up and realize that disrespect or a lkazck of consideration to you is not a crime. Try using it to justify your actions in court.


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

JohninTampa said:


> Wah-wah!
> Calling a no show a thief is a rediculous stretch of the imagination. They have rules and charges resulting from this too. Grow up and realize that disrespect or a lkazck of consideration to you is not a crime. Try using it to justify your actions in court.


Agreed. If a passenger does not show up, you can always cancel the ride and enter no show when prompted. Ghosting a ride is just plain thievery and makes someone no better than the taxicab driver who knowingly takes the long way to get somewhere.


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Cool.
> Now that cancel rates are finally up to $10, I haven't done a ghostie in better than two months. We're glad to see Uber finally got right about paxs who fail to follow through on their ride request.
> Remember, the customer is always right...except for the 90 percent of cases in which they're dead-ass friggin' wrong.


So in other words, you havn't been a thief for better than two months. Better to straighten up later rather than never!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> So in other words, you havn't been a thief for better than two months. Better to straighten up later rather than never!


Actually, I just don't allow myself to be taken advantage of. I'm just a pragmatist, that's all. You see, no one is allowed to steal my time. It's far too valuable. Remember, you're an IC. As such, no one's time is more valuable than yours.

Let me know if there's anything else I can help you with.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

JohninTampa said:


> Wah-wah!
> Calling a no show a thief is a rediculous stretch of the imagination. They have rules and charges resulting from this too. Grow up and realize that disrespect or a lkazck of consideration to you is not a crime. Try using it to justify your actions in court.


No need to justify anything, son. I'm perfectly OK with the $10 cancel fee. Since Uber raised that, I haven't had to do any ghosties, and I'm very happy about that. No one likes to do a ghostie, but we still have to be compensated That's just common business sense, after all.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

JohninTampa said:


> Uber has clear rules on how to be compensated for no shows. Since you are talking lyft' the rules maybe different, but I am sure they do not allow for fraud and theft and that is what you are admitting to. Please don't expect the non criminals to agree with your justification.
> You will be caught, and you will still not learn.


Get caught for what? Since Uber raised the cancellation rate to a fair value I haven't had to do a ghostie in two months. With my help Uber finally understood the problem and they made the appropriate change. Of course, it took no less than 40 emails from me, but they got it.

You're welcome.


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> No need to justify anything, son. I'm perfectly OK with the $10 cancel fee. Since Uber raised that, I haven't had to do any ghosties, and I'm very happy about that. No one likes to do a ghostie, but we still have to be compensated That's just common business sense, after all.


If stealing is common business sense, I guess I wouldn't make a good "businessman."


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> It's a solid strategy if you want people to get pissed and never use Uber again. Great plan of action, sure to help everyone; NOT!


Again, my time is far too valuable to piss away on lackadaisical paxs who cannot be bothered to watch their phones and make good on the ride they requested. Who's doing who the favor here, after all? The pax needs the ride more than I need that pax in my car. If the pax can't get into my car 300 seconds after I arrive, that's on the pax, not Desert Driver. Again, this is just common business sense.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> If stealing is common business sense, I guess I wouldn't make a good "businessman."


Uh, the Uber policy of charging a cancelation fee is not stealing, son. The pax knows this policy and has agreed to it. I am merely implementing the policy Uber has set. If you have a problem with this policy you can - A) Not implement it and piss away your time, or B) Take it up with Uber, not Desert Driver. Yes, Desert Drive helped Uber develop the policy, but ultimately Uber adopted the policy. You're pleading your case to the wrong entity.

Is there anything else I can help you with, or are you good for now? I'm not sure I can make this any clearer. Just remember - if you follow policy, you'll likely not get into hot water.


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Uh, the Uber policy of charging a cancelation fee is not stealing, son. The pax knows this policy and has agreed to it. I am merely implementing the policy Uber has set. If you have a problem with this policy you can - A) Not implement it and piss away your time, or B) Take it up with Uber, not Desert Driver. Yes, Desert Drive helped Uber develop the policy, but ultimately Uber adopted the policy. You're pleading your case to the wrong entity.
> 
> Is there anything else I can help you with, or are you good for now? I'm not sure I can make this any clearer. Just remember - if you follow policy, you'll likely not get into hot water.


Uber charging the no-show fee is one thing; ghost driving is another. Call it what you want but it is stealing and is despicable. Hopefully you will stop before someone you burn drags you out of your car one night. You are a vile person and a discredit to the rideshare service.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> If stealing is common business sense, I guess I wouldn't make a good "businessman."


Well, the truth of the matter here, @UberOnSD, is that if you allow yourself to be taken advantage of, you surely would not make a viable businessman. People prey on the weak and vulnerable. That's human nature. And once you allow yourself to be weak and vulnerable, you may never get out of that hole. That's why the gazelle gets eaten by the lion.

Let me know if I can help you with anything else. I'm happy too assist. We're just trying to earn a buck here.


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Well, the truth of the matter here, @UberOnSD, is that if you allow yourself to be taken advantage of, you surely would not make a viable businessman. People prey on the weak and vulnerable. That's human nature. And once you allow yourself to be weak and vulnerable, you may never get out of that hole. That's why the gazelle gets eaten by the lion.
> 
> Let me know if I can help you with anything else. I'm happy too assist. We're just trying to earn a buck here.


You can justify it any way you like. Charging a passenger for a ride when he is not in your vehicle is theft; plain and simple. There is no grey area here. It is just wrong and you know it.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> Uber charging the no-show fee is one thing; ghost driving is another. Call it what you want but it is stealing and is despicable. Hopefully you will stop before someone you burn drags you out of your car one night. You are a vile person and a discredit to the rideshare service.


You hand over the equity of your car to a multi-billion dollar company. With it goes it's retained value and physical condition, you cop increase running and maintenance costs. When someone decides not to honour the service contract they initiated with you through the app you then walk away from a cost recovery process?

Business is long term, this is my 20th year. In private hire a rider gets charged IN FULL if they change their booking and cancel within 2 hrs of booking time. That is VERY common practice.

Are you saying the Rideshare industry (Gypsy Cabs, unlicensed private hire) requires its drivers "not" to be compensated for services rendered? (As @Desert Driver insists)

Travis has based his future wealth on the fact idiots like you are out their in bucket loads. When you have nothing else to give, your car is in mechanical strife and nothing is in the bank just wait for all the thanks you'll get!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> You can justify it any way you like. Charging a passenger for a ride when he is not in your vehicle is theft; plain and simple. There is no grey area here. It is just wrong and you know it.


I also know that allowing myself to be taken advantage of and failing to be compensated for my time is wrong, so there's that. It's merely a matter of one's perspective. I'm a businessman and once I agree to pick up a passenger and take the time and expend the energy to do so, I will be compensated. That's just a personal policy I have, and it makes sense. But we're arguing a moot point here at this time, now that Uber makes the cancelation worth my while. Really, it's all good, we will agree.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> Most people would call that stealing. You are no better than the cab drivers people complain about. Theft is theft.


Ahhh, but what you're missing is that when a pax requests a ride, I drive to pick them up, and then pax turns out to be a no-show, that ALSO is theft. Remember, my time is valuable, as is yours. All I require is to be compensated for my time that I have sold in good faith; nothing more. You must not be so willing, @UberOnSD, to allow yourself to be cheated and taken advantage of. That is most certainly not how you maximize profit, especially in the low-margin Uber game. You must play this game like you mean it and that you're serious about your earning potential. Don't be so quick to give in and give up. Your time is valuable...be compensated for it. You're sacrificing your time and your automobile. You do not have to give away your time or your automobile's equity. Learn to be good to yourself and learn to earn what you're entitled to. I'm not advocating taking advantage of anybody or any situation. I am simply a strong advocate of IC's being compensated for their time. Yes, I've been a consultant for 20+ years, so I'm very comfortable with the notion of being compensated for any and all efforts I expend for the benefit of my clients. And, yes, most of my clients have been with me for better than a decade.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Raquel said:


> Since you brought up kidnapping again..make clear I was not actually suggesting anyone do that...And I made clear that was sarcasm...Ghost riding a PAX is a crime and it is more than just a misdemeanor. Most crimes in this category that involve fraud are charged as felonies regardless of the amount..
> 
> And of course you'd be prosecuted..imagine the newspaper headline "I got charged for a ride I never took" you best believe that uber will personally sacrifice you at the altar to avoid bad PR..





Desert Driver said:


> Ahhh, but what you're missing is that when a pax requests a ride, I drive to pick them up, and then pax turns out to be a no-show, that ALSO is theft. Remember, my time is valuable, as is yours. All I require is to be compensated for my time that I have sold in good faith; nothing more. You must not be so willing, @UberOnSD, to allow yourself to be cheated and taken advantage of. That is most certainly not how you maximize profit, especially in the low-margin Uber game. You must play this game like you mean it and that you're serious about your earning potential. Don't be so quick to give in and give up. Your time is valuable...be compensated for it. You're sacrificing your time and your automobile. You do not have to give away your time or your automobile's equity. Learn to be good to yourself and learn to earn what you're entitled to. I'm not advocating taking advantage of anybody or any situation. I am simply a strong advocate of IC's being compensated for their time. Yes, I've been a consultant for 20+ years, so I'm very comfortable with the notion of being compensated for any and all efforts I expend for the benefit of my clients. And, yes, most of my clients have been with me for better than a decade.


I agree with you 100% but unfortunately but that's not how it works if you want to be an upright and proper citizen by following all laws and regulations. Every state and or city has laws and regulations for vehicles for hire that talk specifically about these issues your discussing. But then again we're all driving for TNC's that take disregarding laws and regulations to a new level! "Pick your level of bullshit"


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> I agree with you 100% but unfortunately but that's not how it works if you want to be an upright and proper citizen by following all laws and regulations. Every state and or city has laws and regulations for vehicles for hire that talk specifically about these issues your discussing. But then again we're all driving for TNC's that take disregarding laws and regulations to a new level! "Pick your level of bullshit"


But I am following the policies set forth by Uber. That's the most I can do at this point. If a person has a beef with that, that person really needs to take it up with Uber, not me.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> But I am following the policies set forth by Uber. That's the most I can do at this point. If a person has a beef with that, that person really needs to take it up with Uber, not me.


If Uber told you to jump of a bridge or rob a bank would you do it? Not sure about where you live but in CT the state regulations can be enforced on the company and/or the driver.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> If Uber told you to jump of a bridge or rob a bank would you do it? Not sure about where you live but in CT the state regulations can be enforced on the company and/or the driver.


No, Uber has never told me jump of a bridge or rob a bank. Those activities are well outside our contractual agreement. Why do you ask?


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> No, Uber has never told me jump of a bridge or rob a bank. Those activities are well outside our contractual agreement. Why do you ask?


I dont think ghostriding is in the agreement either.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> I dont think ghostriding is in the agreement either.


Correct. Now that cancellation rates have been set at a proper level, ghost riding should not be used.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

JohninTampa said:


> Wah-wah!
> Calling a no show a thief is a rediculous stretch of the imagination. They have rules and charges resulting from this too. Grow up and realize that disrespect or a lkazck of consideration to you is not a crime. Try using it to justify your actions in court.


 What does wah wah mean? Are you crying? Do you need a tissue? There there!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Lidman said:


> What does wah wah mean? Are you crying? Do you need a tissue? There there!


Ok, so I wasn't the only one who thought @JohninTampa sounded like whiner.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

[


Desert Driver said:


> Correct. Now that cancellation rates have been set at a proper level, ghost riding should not be used.


wait a minute...didn't you just tell us about how good you felt ghost riding a customer at a bar?


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> No, Uber has never told me jump of a bridge or rob a bank. Those activities are well outside our contractual agreement. Why do you ask?


Because you said your " following the policies set forth by Uber" . Some would argue that many of Uber's policies are breaking laws now.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> Because you said your " following the policies set forth by Uber" . Some would argue that many of Uber's policies are breaking laws now.


I was discussing cancellation fees. Nothing illegal there.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> [
> 
> wait a minute...didn't you just tell us about how good you felt ghost riding a customer at a bar?


Uber repaired the policy with my help.

You're welcome.

I was never proud of running ghosts, but it was necessary a few times. My company policy requires proper compensation on every run.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Uber repaired the policy with my help.
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> I was never proud of running ghosts, but it was necessary a few times. My company policy requires proper compensation on every run.


Thank you for taking care of that! Someday there will be a statue of you at Uber driver Union headquarters! Just be careful of relapses...I've heard that once you get a taste of ghost riding its hard to quit cold turkey.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> Thank you for taking care of that! Someday there will be a statue of you at Uber driver Union headquarters! Just be careful of relapses...I've heard that once you get a taste of ghost riding its hard to quit cold turkey.


There's really no need to thank me. I'm a consultant by profession, so I'm used to identifying problems and creating solutions for them.
But you're welcome, just the same. It was an honor to assist my fellow drivers.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> [
> 
> wait a minute...didn't you just tell us about how good you felt ghost riding a customer at a bar?


I think we'd get paid more to ride customers at bars.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> There's really no need to thank me. I'm a consultant by profession, so I'm used to identifying problems and creating solutions for them.
> But you're welcome, just the same. It was an honor to assist my fellow drivers.


















We're working on the statue now. All future Uber drivers will also be given a necklace so they'll never forget what you did.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I think we'd get paid more to ride customers at bars.


Sounds like a better business than Uber!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> View attachment 6239
> View attachment 6240
> 
> We're working on the statue now. All future Uber drivers will also be given a necklace so they'll never forget what you did.


Desert Driver is flattered.


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Uber repaired the policy with my help.
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> I was never proud of running ghosts, but it was necessary a few times. My company policy requires proper compensation on every run.


So you claim you were not proud of running ghosts, so that means you know it was wrong. And Uber is not your company. If you worked for me and did something like that, I would fire you in a heartbeat.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> So you claim you were not proud of running ghosts, so that means you know it was wrong. And Uber is not your company. If you worked for me and did something like that, I would fire you in a heartbeat.


And that would be your prerogative. But I work for myself so you won't have the opportunity. Sorry.
The company I own and work for requires compensation for all miles driven on a passenger's or _potential_ passenger's behalf. It's simply a company policy that I choose to uphold, that's all. I treat riders the way I treat any client of mine -- if I expend effort on someone's behalf, I will be compensated. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp and accept? It's not a difficult model.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> Because when you do that while Ubering (which is NOT your company) you are stealing.
> 
> You may someday be the Uber union boss. You certainly are qualified with the poor moral compass you have.


Actually, I'm simply being pragmatic and my moral compass is tuned and true. In fact, several years ago I taught two sections of Business Ethics at a local community college. And as a pragmatist I cannot allow my precious time to be taken from me without compensation. I have no interest in working for a union as I'm far too ethically inclined, but I find your suggestion intriguing and I thank you for the image. But look, you can draw whatever judgments you wish to draw about me because I won't allow myself to be taken advantage of. I, on the other hand, will never judge you for allowing yourself to be taken advantage of because that is your choice, but you do have my sympathy.


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## NickNolte (Dec 12, 2014)

ABC always be compenstated. That and coffee is for closers.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

NickNolte said:


> ABC always be compenstated. That and coffee is for closers.


Glengarry Glen Ross. Excellent play and film.


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## NickNolte (Dec 12, 2014)

The only bad thing about ABC is the one star ratings. I prefer the $4 cancel. That way they can't rate you.


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

NickNolte said:


> The only bad thing about ABC is the one star ratings. I prefer the $4 cancel. That way they can't rate you.


Good point!


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Actually, I'm simply being pragmatic and my moral compass is tuned and true. In fact, several years ago I taught two sections of Business Ethics at a local community college. And as a pragmatist I cannot allow my precious time to be taken from me without compensation. I have no interest in working for a union as I'm far too ethically inclined, but I find your suggestion intriguing and I thank you for the image. But look, you can draw whatever judgments you wish to draw about me because I won't allow myself to be taken advantage of. I, on the other hand, will never judge you for allowing yourself to be taken advantage of because that is your choice, but you do have my sympathy.


Business Ethics? Aren't they contradictory terms? Oxymoron?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> What, like you don't have a preferred soap? It's ok to have a preference.


I will never forgive Dial-Palmolive (or whoever bought them) for dropping 'Pure & Natural'.
Not that there was anything pure & natural about it, but it was my preferred soap.
I wonder, do flaming homos have a singular soap preference?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Picked up 3 pax tonight around 11:30PM- all first year law students going out to blow off some steam.
They hadn't put a destination in the app - and just told me what 'area of downtown they wanted to go to.
From the moment they got in the car we were all joking around having a great time as we drove to the club district they wanted.

After they left the car at the destination, I went to hit 'End Trip' only to find I hadn't even started the trip.
Sh*t, I hate when that happens.

I was done for the evening and didn't want any more rides from that area - AND,
I was going to be driving right by the original pick-up location on the way home anyway, 
so I decided to 'BEGIN TRIP' (at the destination) and I hit 'END TRIP' as I passed the pick-up location.

Fair is Fare, right?

Technically, that was a ghost ride - even though the trip was exactly the correct time and miles - with the exact same route (just in reverse and with an empty car).
It was a lot easier to do it that way than having to go through the hassle of writing to a CSR, explaining the whole thing to get a fare adjusted.

Thoughts?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> Business Ethics? Aren't they contradictory terms? Oxymoron?


You're certainly not the first to make that comment.
I was once let go from a software development company because I refused to pose as potential customer of one of our competitors to collect information about our competitor's product. I was asked to conduct industrial espionage and I flatly refused. Less than a month later my position was mysteriously eliminated. Now here's the ironic part - my boss (VP of Technical Development) always kept a leather-bound Bible on his desk and in his car for (as he said) "guidance and inspiration." Man, does the bullshit get any deeper than that?


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> You're certainly not the first to make that comment.
> I was once let go from a software development company because I refused to pose as potential customer of one of our competitors to collect information about our competitor's product. I was asked to conduct industrial espionage and I flatly refused. Less than a month later my position was mysteriously eliminated. Now here's the ironic part - my boss (VP of Technical Development) always kept a leather-bound Bible on his desk and in his car for (as he said) "guidance and inspiration." Man, does the bullshit get any deeper than that?


"pick your level of bullshit" The bible thing doesn't surprise me that much...just because someone reads the bible or calls himself Christian or whatever doesn't mean they have morals. Religion and morality are really two separate things. When I owned my small local cab company I used to (or had someone else) call the competition to check on their prices regularly. Never really thought about it as a moral issue, figured it was part of "business ethics".


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> "pick your level of bullshit" The bible thing doesn't surprise me that much...just because someone reads the bible or calls himself Christian or whatever doesn't mean they have morals. Religion and morality are really two separate things. When I owned my small local cab company I used to (or had someone else) call the competition to check on their prices regularly. Never really thought about it as a moral issue, figured it was part of "business ethics".


But in your defense, prices are public information, so calling to get your competition's pricing is far different than posing as a potential customer as a means to learn about how the competition's product is designed and built. I was being asked to collect proprietary info, and I simply was not going to do that.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

NickNolte said:


> The only bad thing about ABC is the one star ratings. I prefer the $4 cancel. That way they can't rate you.


That's what I'm saying. Take the cancellation fee, but Always Be Compensated. And now that the cancellation fee here is $10, it's more worthwhile and safer for me to cancel that to pull a ghostie. I hated pulling the ghostie, but I cannot allow my time to be taken away from me without compensation. That's just a company policy I have to uphold.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> But in your defense, prices are public information, so calling to get your competition's pricing is far different than posing as a potential customer as a means to learn about how the competition's product is designed and built. I was being asked to collect proprietary info, and I simply was not going to do that.


what about the false pretense on my part? how does that fit into business ethics?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> what about the false pretense on my part? how does that fit into business ethics?


That's your call not mine. However, I stand by my comment that pricing is public information. There are many ways to collect that info - you could take a ride, you could call the office, you could stake out dropped off passengers, etc. But, really, you don't even have to use false pretense. For example, "Hi, what would the fare be to take a person from Sheb's Pretty Good Nightclub to Randy's Rundown Dive?" Asked like that, there's no false pretense, you're simply asking what the fare would be and you're not covering up your identity or otherwise lying about who you are or what you're doing. That's my take.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> That's your call not mine. However, I stand by my comment that pricing is public information. There are many ways to collect that info - you could take a ride, you could call the office, you could stake out dropped off passengers, etc. But, really, you don't even have to use false pretense. For example, "Hi, what would the fare be to take a person from Sheb's Pretty Good Nightclub to Randy's Rundown Dive?" Asked like that, there's no false pretense, you're simply asking what the fare would be and you're not covering up your identity or otherwise lying about who you are or what you're doing. That's my take.


yea, I guess I just have a guilty conscience! I'll get over it!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> yea, I guess I just have a guilty conscience! I'll get over it!


It's no different that owning a store and walking into your competition's store to see what their prices are. Or, as a consultant, I will go onto my competitor's websites to see what their hourly rate is. No reason too feel guilty. Pricing, in most cases, is public information - certainly in the case of cab fares it's public. If it were not, it'd be impossible to stay viable.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> It's no different that owning a store and walking into your competition's store to see what their prices are. Or, as a consultant, I will go onto my competitor's websites to see what their hourly rate is. No reason too feel guilty. Pricing, in most cases, is public information - certainly in the case of cab fares it's public. If it were not, it'd be impossible to stay viable.


When I think about it there really isn't anything proprietary in the taxi business anyway.


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## JohninTampa (Mar 26, 2015)

I think it is unbelievable that so many here believe stealing is ok if they can say it is the only way to be compensated,many also that a no show is stealing.
There are many reasons for a no-show and Uber gives you a way to be paid for that, if you disagree with their policies,meet free to start your own business and make your own rules. They pay you, they make the rules, breaking the law is not acceptable, and unless you feel that a no-show is breaking the law, (it isn't) then your justification isn't even two wrongs make a right.
Feel free to do whatever you want, just don't try to talk a moral person into thinking it makes sense.
As for Uber's rules, I don't have to like all of them, I do have to live with the or move on


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## JohninTampa (Mar 26, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> And that would be your prerogative. But I work for myself so you won't have the opportunity. Sorry.
> The company I own and work for requires compensation for all miles driven on a passenger's or _potential_ passenger's behalf. It's simply a company policy that I choose to uphold, that's all. I treat riders the way I treat any client of mine -- if I expend effort on someone's behalf, I will be compensated. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp and accept? It's not a difficult model.


Your compensation is the fee set up by Uber, why is that so hard for you to grasp? 
Send your "business model" tou your boss (Uber) and see how long you remain an independent contractor.
You don't onw the company, do you write your paycheck?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

JohninTampa said:


> Your compensation is the fee set up by Uber, why is that so hard for you to grasp?
> Send your "business model" tou your boss (Uber) and see how long you remain an independent contractor.
> You don't onw the company, do you write your paycheck?


Actually, as an IC it is my prerogative to determine that I must be compensated for any effort I expend toward the benefit of a pax. It's a company policy that I choose to uphold. After all, as IC's we buy our leads from Uber. And if a lead turns out to be a bad one, I still have to generate a nominal fee for my efforts. In my profession I'm a consultant, so I am accustomed to being compensated for all efforts I expend toward the benefit of my clients. Most of my clients have been with me for better than a decade. I take the same approach toward passengers and prospective passengers who request rides from me. If I expend any effort toward a pax's benefit, I will be compensated. But now that I have helped Uber create and implement a fair cancelation rate here in my market, I don't have to run ghosties any longer and I'm very happy about that. It's all good!


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

water is for closers!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

osii said:


> water is for closers!


Second prize is a set of steak knives!


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## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> You can justify it any way you like. Charging a passenger for a ride when he is not in your vehicle is theft; plain and simple. There is no grey area here. It is just wrong and you know it.


I ask you to do a favor for us all...please quit engaging @Desert Driver. Desert ******bag is simply his persona, and one he is in love with. Behind the persona...anybody's guess. All I can tell is it's a older dude with a polished dome riding around dirty in a Honda Fit. If it were me, I too would grasp tightly the persona pushed.

The thread took a turn at some point and somehow the fact that "I don't do it anymore" makes it all go away. When a pax requests a ride, they are agreeing to a terms of use that states they can be assessed a cancellation fee when certain conditions exist. In the past, them not be assessed that fee was not theft by the pax, but a BS move on Ubers part. Obviously, as has been claimed, we all can thank @Desert Driver for such an improvement in Uber's stance as far as paid cancellations go.

As a driver, and an IC, when I accept that request, I am operating under an agreement as well which outlines when I am owed a cancellation fee for "No Show" or whatever other reason. As DD states, cashing in on this is part of the business and a way to be compensated for the effort. From all you've written...I don't see anywhere that you take issue with this stance. This action is legit and can be practiced as we see fit under the guidelines given us in the agreement.

Now, what DD and others were proud of was the fact that he would "ghost ride" pax to 'always be compensated'. I'm not sure what part about committing fraud is pragmatic, as he claims to be...I'm sure, however, he will attempt once again to explain it to us all. Once the request is accepted, we have entered into that "contract" as Uber spells it out in the agreement, and that agreement does not arrange for us to be compensated if they cancel within the 5 minutes allowed (along with some other subjective metrics used). Entering into a contract that does not accommodate for compensation in all accounts and then taking matters into your own hands by committing fraud upon our customers (albeit often brazen and contemptuous customers) is not a model of pragmatism in my book.

Now a reformed "ghost rider", all of DD's fraudulent acts are to be forgotten by those reading this thread.


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## Cooluberdriver (Nov 29, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> View attachment 6239
> View attachment 6240
> 
> We're working on the statue now. All future Uber drivers will also be given a necklace so they'll never forget what you did.


That's awesome haha


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

@Desert Driver I like your survey question at the beginning of this thread. Its worded just like an Uber Partner Survey!


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> @Desert Driver I like your survey question at the beginning of this thread. Its worded just like an Uber Partner Survey!


That's precisely what I was going for. I love irony.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

ChrisInABQ said:


> I ask you to do a favor for us all...please quit engaging @Desert Driver. Desert ******bag is simply his persona, and one he is in love with. Behind the persona...anybody's guess. All I can tell is it's a older dude with a polished dome riding around dirty in a Honda Fit. If it were me, I too would grasp tightly the persona pushed.
> 
> The thread took a turn at some point and somehow the fact that "I don't do it anymore" makes it all go away. When a pax requests a ride, they are agreeing to a terms of use that states they can be assessed a cancellation fee when certain conditions exist. In the past, them not be assessed that fee was not theft by the pax, but a BS move on Ubers part. Obviously, as has been claimed, we all can thank @Desert Driver for such an improvement in Uber's stance as far as paid cancellations go.
> 
> ...


Correction: My Honda Fit is kept immaculately clean, both inside and out. Now you know. Anything else I can clear up for you tonight, Chris?

Oh, and no need to thank me for helping to guide Uber's hand toward implementing an appropriate cancel fee in my market. That's just how I roll - when I see a problem I work towards a solution. Maybe, Chris, instead of whining and complaining about my approach you could try doing something constructive in your market for your fellow drivers like I did in mine. Just a thought. But, again, not need to thank me.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

CatnipHigh said:


> Um, I dont at all? You should have cancelled the fare instead of "ghostriding" it.


Now that I have convinced Uber to pay an appropriate cancel rate here, I no longer have to ghost ride. I'm really happy about that.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Raquel said:


> Just a sidenote...ghost riding a PAX..IS ILLEGAL..it's called fraud... and you could be both deactivated and arrested.. It's no different than a grocery store clerk "ghost" charging you for products you didn't buy..and running up your bill..and pocketing the difference..


Now that I have convinced Uber to pay an appropriate cancel rate here, I no longer have to ghost ride. I'm really happy about that.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> Hey dude.. I do "not" agree"
> Your 4.97 rating says nothing and means nothing to nobody..
> In another post you admitted that you are what I call " begging for 5 Stars"
> I don't like that and nobody else likes it either...
> ...


Now that I have convinced Uber to pay an appropriate cancel rate here, I no longer have to ghost ride. I'm really happy about that.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

UberOnSD said:


> So what other form of thievery can you engage in now? Perhaps if drivers "organize" you can become a union boss. Everyone knows those pricks collect union dues from the useful idiots and then laugh their lazy bloated behinds to the bank!


Spending one's life as a thief must be a horrible way to live, we will agree. But also spending one's life whining and complaining about other's who see problems and solve them is also a horrible way to live. We're curious, why do you and @ChrisInABQ choose to live in such a fashion? I got the problem rectified in my market. Did you? (That was a rhetorical question. No need to answer.)


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> I am sorry, but I think everyone here will agree. You make us black car drivers look bad and put a bad name to our profession. You are so ignorant that you deserve to be jailed. It is a crime to charge someone that you cannot see. Period


Good news! I was never jailed. However, I convinced Uber to pay an appropriate cancel rate here, I no longer have to ghost ride. I'm really happy about that.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> Thanks, it is under advice.


@Cooluberdriver - So, why do you think I'm a homosexual? I don't hang out in Atlanta so it's likely we've never met, so I'm curious how you're able to draw such judgments about a person you've never met or had any interaction with. This is no big deal, I'm just curious.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

When you forget to press start trip on a $25 fare only to discover that at the end trip. and your going back the exact same way.


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> When you forget to press start trip on a $25 fare only to discover that at the end trip. and your going back the exact same way.


As long as the passenger is aware, I don't see an issue with that.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

QUESTION:


Desert Driver said:


> "Hi, what would the fare be to take a person from Sheb's Pretty Good Nightclub to Randy's Rundown Dive?"


ANSWER:


> More or less the same as the fare for taking a person from Randy's Rundown to Sheb's Pretty Good.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

UberOnSD said:


> As long as the passenger is aware, I don't see an issue with that.


They had already left the car at ONT AP. I guess I could have called them to be up front. I now see I could of corrected that in the app. BUt it s one of those things that I do not want to hit the ball back to me. But the alturnitive could be worse.


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

*SHARE THIS THREAD.*

https://twitter.com/home?status=https://uberpeople.net/threads/when-is-it-appropriate-to-ghost-ride-a-pax.11854/

https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https://uberpeople.net/threads/when-is-it-appropriate-to-ghost-ride-a-pax.11854/

https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://uberpeople.net/threads/when-is-it-appropriate-to-ghost-ride-a-pax.11854/


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## Cooluberdriver (Nov 29, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> @Cooluberdriver - So, why do you think I'm a homosexual? I don't hang out in Atlanta so it's likely we've never met, so I'm curious how you're able to draw such judgments about a person you've never met or had any interaction with. This is no big deal, I'm just curious.


It was more of a joke. I have nothing agasint gay people at all. I think the soap thing sounded it for me at least.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Our cancel here is $6. But I think we also need a fee earlier than 5 mins for when we're on the way. I have pulled up to a location and been canceled and its 4 minutes since they ordeted so I get nothing. Should be 30 seconds or a minute. I can drive miles in 5 mins. And the no show should be 2 or 3 not 5.


Lyft does it right. Two minutes after arrival, the trip starts automagically.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> It was more of a joke. I have nothing agasint gay people at all. I think the soap thing sounded it for me at least.


Hmmmmm. Interesting. Using sexual orientation as a means of insulting another is so 2007. If you think I'm being a ********, ******bag, jerkoff, I would hope that next time you call me a ********, ******bag, jerkoff. But because we're friends here, I hope there isn't a next time.


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## Cooluberdriver (Nov 29, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Hmmmmm. Interesting. Using sexual orientation as a means of insulting another is so 2007. If you think I'm being a ********, ******bag, jerkoff, I would hope that next time you call me a ********, ******bag, jerkoff. But because we're friends here, I hope there isn't a next time.


Naw there won't be.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Cooluberdriver said:


> Naw there won't be.


I hope not! Nothing sucks quite like wasting time arguing and bickering with friends and colleagues.


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