# Mileage Deductions - A no B.S. Discussion



## Ubercentralnj (Oct 2, 2015)

I've seen many threads on this topic but most are 90% opinion with no facts to back them up. I'm hoping this thread will focus more on guidance the IRS has published, rather than our collective logic. We can't apply logic where the IRS is concerned. Below is a relevant excerpt from the IRS website. Please base your comments on these quotes or othet quotes that you post.

*"Office in the home.* If you have an office in your home that qualifies as a principal place of business, you can deduct your daily transportation costs between your home and another work location in the same trade or business. (See Publication 587, Business Use of Your Home, for information on determining if your home office qualifies as a principal place of business.)
*Examples of deductible transportation.* The following examples show when you can deduct transportation expenses based on the location of your work and your home.

*Example 1.*

You regularly work in an office in the city where you live. Your employer sends you to a 1-week training session at a different office in the same city. You travel directly from your home to the training location and return each day. You can deduct the cost of your daily round-trip transportation between your home and the training location.

*Example 2.*

Your principal place of business is in your home. You can deduct the cost of round-trip transportation between your qualifying home office and your client's or customer's place of business.

*Example 3.*

You have no regular office, and you do not have an office in your home. In this case, the location of your first business contact inside the metropolitan area is considered your office. Transportation expenses between your home and this first contact are nondeductible commuting expenses. Transportation expenses between your last business contact and your home are also nondeductible commuting expenses. While you cannot deduct the costs of these trips, you can deduct the costs of going from one client or customer to another.


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## Ubercentralnj (Oct 2, 2015)

My takeaway here is that I cannot deduct miles from/to home unless I claim a Home Office. I'll be looking into that for 2016 since if legit, may provide substantial deductions on its own.


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## CowboyMC (Aug 26, 2014)

Ubercentralnj said:


> My takeaway here is that I cannot deduct miles from/to home unless I claim a Home Office. I'll be looking into that for 2016 since if legit, may provide substantial deductions on its own.


Here is how you can work it. I have a location I got to to wait for Uber jobs(staging area). It's about 1/10 of a mile from my house. So I can't claim that 1/10 of a mile. At the end of my shift, I am at the staging area and go home. I can't deduct that 1/10 of a mile. I deduct the rest.


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## Guber Driver (Oct 7, 2015)

I count my milage from the second I turn on the app and I'm available for work. I set the odometer to zero.


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## makinthemagic (Oct 8, 2015)

Ubercentralnj said:


> My takeaway here is that I cannot deduct miles from/to home unless I claim a Home Office. I'll be looking into that for 2016 since if legit, may provide substantial deductions on its own.


You will not be allowed to claim a home office deduction as your principal place of business is mobile i.e. anywhere BUT your home. Unless you are running a fleet of cars there is no way you will qualify for a HO deduction. It is also an audit red flag and will likely trigger an audit of your whole return if you claim it.

Just log into the app as soon as you start your car and you can deduct your mileage leaving your home. You will not be able to claim the mileage from your last drop off to home. That is non-deductible commuting mileage.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Ubercentralnj said:


> I've seen many threads on this topic but most are 90% opinion with no facts to back them up. I'm hoping this thread will focus more on guidance the IRS has published, rather than our collective logic. We can't apply logic where the IRS is concerned. Below is a relevant excerpt from the IRS website. Please base your comments on these quotes or othet quotes that you post.
> 
> *"Office in the home.* If you have an office in your home that qualifies as a principal place of business, you can deduct your daily transportation costs between your home and another work location in the same trade or business. (See Publication 587, Business Use of Your Home, for information on determining if your home office qualifies as a principal place of business.)
> *Examples of deductible transportation.* The following examples show when you can deduct transportation expenses based on the location of your work and your home.
> ...


The way I look at it my first "business contact" is Uber as soon as I turn the app on.


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## Ubercentralnj (Oct 2, 2015)

makinthemagic said:


> You will not be allowed to claim a home office deduction as your principal place of business is mobile i.e. anywhere BUT your home. Unless you are running a fleet of cars there is no way you will qualify for a HO deduction. It is also an audit red flag and will likely trigger an audit of your whole return if you claim it.
> 
> Just log into the app as soon as you start your car and you can deduct your mileage leaving your home. You will not be able to claim the mileage from your last drop off to home. That is non-deductible commuting mileage.


To your first point I think you should review IRS publication 587 regarding the qualifications for claiming a Home office. If i get tbe time a will post a summary some time. As far as the many people who say "just turn on the app", how exactly do you intend to prove that you had it on?


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## makinthemagic (Oct 8, 2015)

Ubercentralnj said:


> To your first point I think you should review IRS publication 587 regarding the qualifications for claiming a Home office. If i get tbe time a will post a summary some time. As far as the many people who say "just turn on the app", how exactly do you intend to prove that you had it on?


What part should I review of Pub 587?


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## Ubercentralnj (Oct 2, 2015)

makinthemagic said:


> What part should I review of Pub 587?


They don't have section numbers, so just Google IRS Publication 587, then go to the section called Qualifying for a Deduction. You have to keep drilling down from there. The use has to be exclusive and regular. So then you need to see those definitions. You have to also review the definition of Administrative and Management Activities.


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## M clar (Nov 8, 2015)

I think domewhere in the publication it stayes for a second job all miles are deductible. I wish someone would confirm


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## makinthemagic (Oct 8, 2015)

M clar said:


> I think domewhere in the publication it stayes for a second job all miles are deductible. I wish someone would confirm


Mileage from your 1st job to 2nd job can be deductible but only if you are itemizing deductions.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Ubercentralnj said:


> To your first point I think you should review IRS publication 587 regarding the qualifications for claiming a Home office. If i get tbe time a will post a summary some time. As far as the many people who say "just turn on the app", how exactly do you intend to prove that you had it on?


We do get a weekly summary from Uber showing hours on line. That in addition to a daily log kept by you might suffice.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

M clar said:


> I think domewhere in the publication it stayes for a second job all miles are deductible. I wish someone would confirm


*
Two places of work.* If you work at two places in one day, whether or not for the same employer, you can deduct the expense of getting from one workplace to the other. However, if for some personal reason you do not go directly from one location to the other, you cannot deduct more than the amount it would have cost you to go directly from the first location to the second.
Transportation expenses you have in going between home and a part-time job on a day off from your main job are commuting expenses. You cannot deduct them.
*Temporary work location.* 
If you have one or more regular work locations away from your home and you commute to a temporary work location in the same trade or business, you can deduct the expenses of the daily round-trip transportation between your home and the temporary location, regardless of distance.
If your employment at a work location is realistically expected to last (and does in fact last) for 1 year or less, the employment is temporary unless there are facts and circumstances that would indicate otherwise. If your employment at a work location is realistically expected to last for more than 1 year or if there is no realistic expectation that the employment will last for 1 year or less, the employment is not temporary, regardless of whether it actually lasts for more than 1 year.
If employment at a work location initially is realistically expected to last for 1 year or less, but at some later date the employment is realistically expected to last more than 1 year, that employment will be treated as temporary (unless there are facts and circumstances that would indicate otherwise) until your expectation changes. It will not be treated as temporary after the date you determine it will last more than 1 year. If the temporary work location is beyond the general area of your regular place of work and you stay overnight, you are traveling away from home you may have deductible travel expenses. 
*No regular place of work*. If you have no regular place of work but ordinarily work in the metropolitan area where you live, you can deduct daily transportation costs between home and a temporary work site outside that metropolitan area. 
Generally, a metropolitan area includes the area within the city limits and the suburbs that are considered part of that metropolitan area.
You cannot deduct daily transportation costs between your home and temporary work sites within your metropolitan area. These are nondeductible commuting expenses.


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## Felix Kander (Nov 18, 2015)

Guber Driver said:


> I count my milage from the second I turn on the app and I'm available for work. I set the odometer to zero.


Do you just keep a paper mileage log?


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## Ubercentralnj (Oct 2, 2015)

Felix Kander said:


> Do you just keep a paper mileage log?


Guber, picture yourself defending your mileage seduction in front of an auditor. How are you going to prove the app was on? What evidence will you have of where you drove? I know its a hit of work, but go to the IRS website, they provide an example of the trip log they feel is sufficient. I get it, setting your car trip odometer to zero each day is good enough for you, but we need to satisfy a bureaucrat whose job is to take your money, and is working under the assumption that you are cheating him.


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## gman (Jul 28, 2014)

Ubercentralnj said:


> How are you going to prove the app was on?


Or conversely, how would they prove the app wasn't on?

Anyway the weekly pay statement emails say exactly how many hours you were online in that week. So even if you didn't have any fares, you could prove you were online.

My feeling is with a written log, and assuming the miles claimed are reasonable compared to the miles with a PAX (which Uber does report and you can prove), you would be okay in an audit. An audit that has about a 1/10 of 1% chance of ever happening. Because what do you think they have to gain by auditing some Uber driving making minimum wage?


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## Felix Kander (Nov 18, 2015)

I just downloaded a couple apps that replace mileage logs. Seems a lot easier than writing stuff down and they say the report will be IRS compliant...


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## ozzzz666 (Apr 17, 2015)

This is a business. I start by going to the car wash. Every mile I drive between then and when I turn the app off for the day(for good), I will be claiming. If I turn the app off to get to the place where I catch more and better rides, I am claiming those miles, because my business model doesn't support running BS rides in areas that I am not familiar with. Whether the app is physically on or off, I am driving for my business. App on/off strategies, as well as platform switching, chasing surges, and overall positioning are an integral part of this business, and I am pretty sure that you could defend that position in a court of Law. If I decide to go on a trip that puts miles on the car for personal reasons during the day, I won't claim the miles. but when I come out of the Wendy's, or whatever, and turn my app back on, you better believe that I am claiming everything after that.

In my view, this differs from the approaches above because they seem to be viewing the taxpayer as only "working" when they have the app on. My business travel begins when I turn the app on and only stops when I take a personal break, or turn the app off with the intention of going home. The only reason I am on the road between those points in time is to make money with my business.

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a tax professional, and have done research that suggests the same as the people above are posting. But none of it seems to have our business in mind, and in fact, seems to conflict with common sense. Not all that surprising for the IRS, but I feel pretty confident that there is a serious argument to be made for my position.


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## CowboyMC (Aug 26, 2014)

ozzzz666 said:


> This is a business. I start by going to the car wash. Every mile I drive between then and when I turn the app off for the day(for good), I will be claiming. If I turn the app off to get to the place where I catch more and better rides, I am claiming those miles, because my business model doesn't support running BS rides in areas that I am not familiar with. Whether the app is physically on or off, I am driving for my business. App on/off strategies, as well as platform switching, chasing surges, and overall positioning are an integral part of this business, and I am pretty sure that you could defend that position in a court of Law. If I decide to go on a trip that puts miles on the car for personal reasons during the day, I won't claim the miles. but when I come out of the Wendy's, or whatever, and turn my app back on, you better believe that I am claiming everything after that.


I agree!


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## ozzzz666 (Apr 17, 2015)

You are not an Uber/Lyft employee. You are a business owner. That business isn't contingent upon either company per se. This business is about MUCH more than app on/app off, and when you have a passenger in the car. It also doesn't begin and end in conjunction with rides. As a business owner, you may drive for hours and never make any money. Those miles should be deductible. You are driving for your business, even if you weren't very successful at it. This is the whole reason for deductions. Determining profit and loss.


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## RobGM84 (Oct 26, 2015)

so for my situation:

1) this is a second job. My primary job is about 20 miles away from my home. I log in every day about two hours prior to work at my primary job and sit at home until my first ping comes in (either lyft, uber, or postmates). Once that happens I continue taking pax until i get to my office. At times i do have to log out of driver mode in order to get to the office (ie: no pax headed in that direction). On the way back I do the same thing in reverse for a couple hours after work.

2) as someone mentioned above for the home office expense I actually do have a (small) fleet of vehicles that i use for rideshare/delivery but also rent out on Turo. Many of the tasks involved with maintaining this fleet happen at my home office and many renters come to my home office to retrieve the vehicles. I maintain a workspace specifically for handling accounting and other activities specific to this second job.

It is my understanding that I can immediately claim mileage from my home as soon as i turn the driver app on and am available for requests. I can obviously claim all mileage during my trips and i should also be able to claim mileage from my last dropoff to my primary job (or home), correct?


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## UberAnnoyed (Aug 7, 2015)

Felix Kander said:


> I just downloaded a couple apps that replace mileage logs. Seems a lot easier than writing stuff down and they say the report will be IRS compliant...


What are the names of the apps? Thanks!


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

UberAnnoyed said:


> What are the names of the apps? Thanks!


I use BizXpensTracker


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## RobGM84 (Oct 26, 2015)

I use SherpaShare


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

How many apps have you had for 7 years?

You must keep the mileage log 7 years in case of an IRS audit, my money is on paper.

I can't imagine some "app" that is free to use being around with downloadable documents 6 years from now.

call me crazy.


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## RobGM84 (Oct 26, 2015)

I usually download the data in excel and keep a copy. Before I found SherpaShare I was just documenting everything in excel. Turo (previously RelayRides) also keeps a record of every rental and I always take a picture of beginning and ending mileage. 

Always a good idea to back up but no problem using an app instead of a notepad for initial recording.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

LAuberX said:


> How many apps have you had for 7 years?
> 
> You must keep the mileage log 7 years in case of an IRS audit, my money is on paper.
> 
> ...


you can print a hard copy from BizXpensTracker


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

RobGM84 said:


> so for my situation:
> 
> 1) this is a second job. My primary job is about 20 miles away from my home. I log in every day about two hours prior to work at my primary job and sit at home until my first ping comes in (either lyft, uber, or postmates). Once that happens I continue taking pax until i get to my office. At times i do have to log out of driver mode in order to get to the office (ie: no pax headed in that direction). On the way back I do the same thing in reverse for a couple hours after work.
> 
> ...


Great question! I'll take a shot at it. The first question is whether your home office is for your rideshare or rental business or both. It sounds like the office meets the requirements for the rental business because you meet customers there in the normal course of business. The office may not qualify for the rideshare business based on the info you've provided. My answer is based on this assumption. (if you do claim the office for both businesses you need to file a separate form 8829 for each business and prorate the deduction based on how much time each business uses the office) To answer your question, "should also be able to claim mileage from my last dropoff to my primary job (or home)" , these miles would be deductible as commuter miles to a second job worked in the same day. In the morning your commuting from your rideshare business to your real job after the last drop off. At night your commuting from your rideshare business to your rental business after last drop off. There are limits for deducting commuting to a second job as described below. 
*Deduction Limits*
Include mileage for commuting to a second job as a miscellaneous deduction when itemizing. Complete Schedule A and include the form when you file your Form 1040. Miscellaneous deductions are limited to the amounts that exceed 2 percent of your adjusted gross income as shown on your Form 1040, line 38. For example, if your adjusted gross income is $100,000, you can only deduct miscellaneous expenses over $2,000. This amount is the total for the category, not just your mileage deduction.


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