# Surge pricing: the big lie



## Bostonmultiguy

I would love to get some hard figures re surge pricing. I am willing to bet that Uber usage takes an absolute nose dive during the surge - so much so that any given driver has a very low likelihood of benefiting from the surge.

I drive in Boston (did the name give it away?) and I generally work weekend evenings. In any given shift there is a lot of red on my map a lot of the time.

I've had it happen multiple times that I'm in the middle of a red 3x zone and I just sit there and sit there and sit there... and I either get tons of requests outside of the surge (which I decline) or nothing happens until the surge goes away.

I generally like Uber-ing as I have two other jobs and I can fit Uber in as needed. But I think the whole surge concept is a big fraud. 

The way I see it going is like this:

Step 1: demand sharply increases in zone A
Step 2: # of customers in zone A > # of available drivers in zone A
Step 3: zone A starts surging
Step 4: drivers near zone A start heading into zone A
Step 5: customers see the surge and decide they don't want a car if it costs extra
Step 6: uber drivers continue to flood zone A
Step 7: # customers < # of available drivers
Step 8: surge ends

Surge works for the customer b/c it means if there are no cars near you, it won't take long for cars to be in your area.

Surge doesn't really work for the driver b/c when surging hits, the #of requests goes way down and the number of cancelled requests goes up.

Sometimes I employ the "accept each and every job" approach and figure I will constantly be making money or about to make money and not just sitting around doing nothing.

Sometimes I try to game the system by logging out when a surge hits in a zone I'm not in then driving there and logging in. But that doesn't work.

Just recently I had a shift where almost all of Boston was red - but I wasn't any busier b/c of it. The rides I got during that time were all outside the red.

I think I'm going to stop chasing the red. Or maybe I'll accept all jobs and cancel those not in my immediate vicinity. 

I may even lose money b/c of surges b/c if I'm sitting in red zone passing on non surge fares, I'm losing money if I don't make it up with a surge fare.

Also, I have noticed a ton more customer cancelled requests during surges which makes sense. But if Uber cared about drivers it would charge the customer something for cancelling during a surge. If you tie me up for 5+ minutes b/c I'm answering a surge call, and then you cancel, you've taken me out of the surge earning pool, and you should be penalized.

Is there any real penalty or consequence for accepting a request then cancelling it? I have done thousands of trips (literally) in the last 9 months and I can count on one hand the # of times I've cancelled a job. What about other folks?


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## drivingmisscrazy

I call it the Uber 'Purge'.

Nothing clears out customers from the app like a surge does.


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## Worcester Sauce

Bostonmultiguy said:


> I would love to get some hard figures re surge pricing. I am willing to bet that Uber usage takes an absolute nose dive during the surge - so much so that any given driver has a very low likelihood of benefiting from the surge.
> 
> I drive in Boston (did the name give it away?) and I generally work weekend evenings. In any given shift there is a lot of red on my map a lot of the time.
> 
> I've had it happen multiple times that I'm in the middle of a red 3x zone and I just sit there and sit there and sit there... and I either get tons of requests outside of the surge (which I decline) or nothing happens until the surge goes away.
> 
> I generally like Uber-ing as I have two other jobs and I can fit Uber in as needed. But I think the whole surge concept is a big fraud.
> 
> The way I see it going is like this:
> 
> Step 1: demand sharply increases in zone A
> Step 2: # of customers in zone A > # of available drivers in zone A
> Step 3: zone A starts surging
> Step 4: drivers near zone A start heading into zone A
> Step 5: customers see the surge and decide they don't want a car if it costs extra
> Step 6: uber drivers continue to flood zone A
> Step 7: # customers < # of available drivers
> Step 8: surge ends
> 
> Surge works for the customer b/c it means if there are no cars near you, it won't take long for cars to be in your area.
> 
> Surge doesn't really work for the driver b/c when surging hits, the #of requests goes way down and the number of cancelled requests goes up.
> 
> Sometimes I employ the "accept each and every job" approach and figure I will constantly be making money or about to make money and not just sitting around doing nothing.
> 
> Sometimes I try to game the system by logging out when a surge hits in a zone I'm not in then driving there and logging in. But that doesn't work.
> 
> Just recently I had a shift where almost all of Boston was red - but I wasn't any busier b/c of it. The rides I got during that time were all outside the red.
> 
> I think I'm going to stop chasing the red. Or maybe I'll accept all jobs and cancel those not in my immediate vicinity.
> 
> I may even lose money b/c of surges b/c if I'm sitting in red zone passing on non surge fares, I'm losing money if I don't make it up with a surge fare.
> 
> Also, I have noticed a ton more customer cancelled requests during surges which makes sense. But if Uber cared about drivers it would charge the customer something for cancelling during a surge. If you tie me up for 5+ minutes b/c I'm answering a surge call, and then you cancel, you've taken me out of the surge earning pool, and you should be penalized.
> 
> Is there any real penalty or consequence for accepting a request then cancelling it? I have done thousands of trips (literally) in the last 9 months and I can count on one hand the # of times I've cancelled a job. What about other folks?


great post


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## Worcester Sauce

drivingmisscrazy said:


> I call it the Uber 'Purge'.
> 
> Nothing clears out customers from the app like a surge does.


I agree. I have heard it said by some here...."do not chase the surge".


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## Boston's Finest

I recently picked up this foreign exchange student near Boston College during a X2.75 surge and she was clueless on how the surge thing worked. She ended up with a $40 fare just to go to Riverdale T-station (8.5 miles/21 mins). I kinda felt bad, but I made plenty of trips with equal distance and made $15. I wish there was some middle ground. 
Great post!


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## sfdriver1896

customers play the game as well. they wont get a car in surge. they are cheap. they will wait it out. when my map is orange, i turn my phone off, wait it out for a few minutes and when it hits surge,i go online and i see the same with other drivers as well. just sit for a few minutes and get a 25-75% bump on a ride.


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## Nautilis

Great post! I drive in Boston as well. Riders will often use the "Notify Me When Surge Ends" feature on the passenger app. I'm not busy _during_ surges, I'm busy right _after_ a surge ends. I agree with the advice here... I do not chase surges. When I'm working, I generally accept every job and just ignore the whole surge thing.

Riders here will also look to Lyft when Uber is surging and vice versa. That's probably why you are getting a lot of cancellations, riders found a cheaper ride on the other platform.


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## Mazda3

I've actually adopted the rule of driving away from surges. My thinking behind it is all the others drivers drive towards the surge area and leave the other areas empty of drivers. Business tends to pick up in the non-surge areas during a surge in other areas.


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## DeamonOfDistance

I have the Uber app open on my other phone to see how many drivers are in my area. Well, when my Uber IPHONE displays Surge Pricing and red all over the map where I'm waiting, the price doesn't change for fares on my other rider app I have open. Also, I have never ever received any other pay other than the $1.25/$.20, etc... ever. If indeed surge pricing is to motivate drivers to log-on, then why does it only appear AFTER you log on..?
Surge pricing has never effected (added) anything to my pay. It also shows up at the strangest times too, regardless of how many cars show available, often when there are many cars around.
I'm still trying to figure out Uber's angle (reason) for it.


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## Tommyo

its largely a promo gimmick - calls emerge from outside the surge zone - kind of hard to audit all this hype on the fly.


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## sfdriver1896

If i am in a borderline surge area and i get a ping from a customer from outside the surge area i wont pick it up. ill take my chances and try to make that extra cash. these rate cuts are ridiculous, and I'm tired of driving people for $6 ride.


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## remy

Heat Map is a scam! Turning Yellow in an area is a way to bring more drivers out. While in fact that there is no demand. I was the only driver in town and yellow heat map was all over the town but no ping. Then here come hordes of other drivers saturating then they sit there and one by one disappearing moving elsewhere.


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## Elmoooy

I saw something that I never seen happen in Charleston area before, two different surges at same time, Downtown which normally surges at night, surged around 3pm - 6pm today, then the area outside (not the airport, or the beaches) surged. I have never seen that happen before and it was a 2.25 surge! I don't chase them but it tells me that my market is growing faster than Uber can bring in drivers.


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## Bostonmultiguy

this past weekend I finally caught a bunch of surges. Made $300 (gross) in five rides. Right now my dashboard is empty b/c of some glitch in the system but I'm super interested in what my weekend total was.


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## Just Some Guy

Surge in Boston often revolves around the 500,000 college students. Many of which are using daddy's credit card, so they don't care about surge, they want a ride when they want it! However because of the over saturation of drivers currently, you need to be right on top of where they are to get a ping. That means knowing where the hot spots are for that particular night at that time, and waiting right outside until the surge hits. You need to be proactive to make the most of it these days, you may get lucky reacting to surge, but for best results you need to plan your night around anticipating surge.

For the non-student events that create surge, I have definitely noticed waiting it out to be much more common than it used to be. But once the weather gets colder you can expect them to not be so inclined to wait out the surge.


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## Driver8

Nashville surges are hard to predict. I've seen UberX and UberXL in surge when supply was plentiful (6-12 X cars) for average demand, and no surge at times when it was so busy that I'd get pinged within 3 minutes of every drop-off. Sometimes I benefit when X is surging, because suddenly the Black car is the cheaper option.


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## RippGutt

I drive only during weekends now, during surges. I completed 20 rides this past weekend and all were surges, I even passed up plenty as well. I gamble with surges, but it worth it. I just can't seem to drive at the regular fare. I also have an SUV so I have to be smart.


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