# Uber Sued By The Disabled



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Two Disabled individuals are suing Uber for not being able to get an Uber.

Although Uber has launched a program for people with disabilities to use the car-hailing service, the program is not available in all the markets in which Uber operates. Two people who use wheelchairs have filed a lawsuit against Uber alleging that Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.

According to the suit, the two plaintiffs are unable to use Uber because the company doesn't enable them to request cars that are accessible to people with wheelchairs in Jackson, Mississippi.

"As a result, persons with disabilities in Jackson have no ability to call a wheelchair accessible vehicle or a specially trained driver through the Uber app," the lawsuit states. "Even if there are drivers on the road who have such a vehicle or training, there is no way for Jackson users with a disability to find a trained driver or accessible vehicle through the app."

https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/09/uber-lawsuit-people-with-disabilities/
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Travis should just file chapter 11 now...


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

He will pay them off. The lawyers will get most of the money. The people in the wheelchairs still will not get a ride.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Do taxis have to give disabled people rides ?


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## Kalee (Feb 18, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Do taxis have to give disabled people rides ?


Of course they do. That's why Uber is being sued.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Do taxis have to give disabled people rides ?



















It varies of course, not everywhere is equal...

Some places require as much as half their taxis are equiped.

Orlando has a % that the companies need but i can't remember what it is...

Uber will lose this lawsuit, they have no way to comply other than by subbing out to cab companies, who if they were smart, would tell uber to F- OFF...

All it takes is for the cab companies to conspire against uber for them to get thrown out of a city when the ADA cracks down on them.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

there are advocates I am sure in every city and all they do is go to businesses and report them for discrimination for people with disabilities. You will often notice in many restaurants, they have designated tables with sufficient aisle space and also ramps in addition to bathrooms that can people with disabilities can use.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

they are going to have to subsidize the XL people to install ramps in their cars for them


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

uberdriverfornow said:


> they are going to have to subsidize the XL people to install ramps in their cars for them


How many drivers will do it though? what makes Uber attractive to many drivers is they can use their personal cars and not have to rig them up with all these sorts of stuff.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Brooklyn said:


> How many drivers will do it though? what makes Uber attractive to many drivers is they can use their personal cars and not have to rig them up with all these sorts of stuff.


Probably very few s these vans are tough to get I would imagine even if used, but I can imagine some, with very long request times and distances. I would imagine with some skills in a decent area, you probably will be very busy since you basically won't have competition. Especially in retirement meccas.


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

Kodyhead said:


> Probably very few s these vans are tough to get I would imagine even if used, but I can imagine some, with very long request times and distances. I would imagine with some skills in a decent area, you probably will be very busy since you basically won't have competition. Especially in retirement meccas.


Well I'm in NYC and there doesn't seem to be as a high demand for WAV vehicles compared to how many there are.

Also don't forget your job would basically be slowed down.. in the time you can finish 2-3 trips you'll be doing 1.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Brooklyn said:


> Well I'm in NYC and there doesn't seem to be as a high demand for WAV vehicles compared to how many there are.
> 
> Also don't forget your job would basically be slowed down.. in the time you can finish 2-3 trips you'll be doing 1.


Out of curiosity how are the rates? Even with the slow down, I would imagine it would be like luxsuv or ubersuv working less but more per ride. If you are good prearranging rides It can't be that bad as you should be guaranteed a round trip with simple communication and a pax who would actually appreciate the effort if you did that. Probably will need to violate a bunch of stuff with Uber TOS by prearranging rides but again, I am sure the pax will be in debt to you for the most part if you are reliable. You might be able to make a good living just doing 2 round trips a day depending on distance and time of course.



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> View attachment 119140
> View attachment 119140
> 
> 
> Some places require as much as half their taxis are equiped.


This sounds absurd to me, and since I respect your opinion, think it might be a typo, but if true could you elaborate? Are we talking wheel chair vans or is there some other kind of certification or modification I don't know about?


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Kodyhead said:


> This sounds absurd to me, and since I respect your opinion, think it might be a typo, but if true could you elaborate? Are we talking wheel chair vans or is there some other kind of certification or modification I don't know about?


Yeah some places have requirements on taxi companies to have X% of their fleet is wheelchair vans. The company i drive for uses ones very much like the pics i posted, and inside the van they have straps for strapping down a wheelchair for people who can't transfer.

NYC is 50% by 2020 and London (UK) is 100% by law.

Both of these are very high, usually the % is around 10-20%, for the life of me i Can't remember what Orlando's % is. Something is making me think 10%


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Yeah some places have requirements on taxi companies to have X% of their fleet is wheelchair vans. The company i drive for uses ones very much like the pics i posted, and inside the van they have straps for strapping down a wheelchair for people who can't transfer.
> 
> NYC is 50% by 2020 and London (UK) is 100% by law.
> 
> Both of these are very high, usually the % is around 10-20%, for the life of me i Can't remember what Orlando's % is. Something is making me think 10%


10% seems reasonable to me, but 100%? am I missing something here or can these minivans have convertible seats where they can operate as regular mini vans easily? Is this based off just the minivans or large suv cars or total fleet?


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Kodyhead said:


> 10% seems reasonable to me, but 100%? am I missing something here or can these minivans have convertible seats where they can operate as regular mini vans easily? Is this based off just the minivans or large suv cars or total fleet?


A liberty van of course can operate as a regular taxi. You lose some seating capacity but 95% of the pax a WAV van carries are non handicapped.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Kodyhead said:


> 10% seems reasonable to me, but 100%? am I missing something here or can these minivans have convertible seats where they can operate as regular mini vans easily? Is this based off just the minivans or large suv cars or total fleet?


100% is Europe being europe. 50% is high, most cities wouldn't push for that much.

The mini vans with the conversion i posted can only seat four, or 5 if someone is strapped down/in a wheelchair.

They do however have killer cargo space, you can fit like 10 suit cases plus 4 sets of golf clubs easily.

But after the conversion they can only seat 4 passengers, your absolutely right.

For the cabbies here in Orlando they are a huge advantage to drive because about half give or take, of the fares that require a van are only because of cargo issues, not because of the number of passengers. Also during daylight hours there's tons of medical account cab fares that go every day, that involve transporting someone in a wheelchair.

So two people on tag team with a wheelchair van can make amazing money as long as they can get along... (2 people paying $1000 a week total to rent a taxi)

If $1000 seems ridiculous that $1000 is virtually all the cut the cab company gets off them for the week. It comes out to $6 an hour to rent out the car, whereas they are getting $25-35 per hour for 150+ hours they can keep it on the road. (Yes $3,500 a week, take $1000 or 1100 for the car, 300-400 in gas or tolls and your easily looking at 1000+ for each driver a week)

They will do this all busy season long and put probobly a good 110,000-130,000 miles a year on the car. Meaning they will burn out the car completely and hit 500,000 in 3 1/2 to 4 years tops.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Two Disabled individuals are suing Uber for not being able to get an Uber.
> 
> Although Uber has launched a program for people with disabilities to use the car-hailing service, the program is not available in all the markets in which Uber operates. Two people who use wheelchairs have filed a lawsuit against Uber alleging that Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.
> 
> ...


Jackson is a fairly large city.
A lot of it is in Urban decay.
This service Should be available.
When will Uber learn paying Drivers is more effective than paying off lawsuits !?



uberdriverfornow said:


> Do taxis have to give disabled people rides ?


Yes.
And taxi companies have vans with power wheelchair lifts and wheel chair ramps !
$40,000 plus each,with an 8 year life span before replacement in my city. No vehicles over 8 years old can be used.
I saw a great deal on a Toyota wheelchair van 2016 . . . 16,000 miles,but a rebuild title.
Can't use for Uber.
( all wheel chair vans are Actual rebuilds because they are custom constructed, often with lowered center chasis floors, higher roofs, and hydraulics to lower vehicle to decrease ramp angle)

Uber wants to get away with paying a driver x rates to run a handicap van.
UNSUSTAINABLE !!!
The equipment is more expensive.
Loading and unloading is extremely time consuming !
You get the cost of running a van,without the xl capacity,for the payment of an x economy vehicle !
.A LOSING PROPOSITION FOR A DRIVER NO MATTER HOW YOU APPROACH IT !..

UBER MUST PROVIDE IF THEY WANT TO STAY IN BUSINESS !.
MAN UP UBER !
PAY DRIVERS !



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> View attachment 119140
> View attachment 119140
> 
> 
> ...


I like the side entrance models.
Try laying out a ramp behind the van in New Orleans !
You will be killed or arrested or both at once !!!.
To begin with,you would NEVER find a parking space that long !


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Do taxis have to give disabled people rides ?


Most cities require that each taxi company has a percentage of vehicles on the road that can accommodate the disabled.

I for one think your insurance should cover the cost of a wheelchair ramp conversion kit/labor or whatever else you need to be able to operate your own vehicle. (besides the actual vehicle). I mean, they give cover power scooters and such. For those who dont have insurance, they will have medicaid anyways.

I don't think a company should be required to provide x amount of vehicles though. There are many, many "mobility transportation" companies around town that medicaid pays for.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Brooklyn said:


> How many drivers will do it though? what makes Uber attractive to many drivers is they can use their personal cars and not have to rig them up with all these sorts of stuff.


I have looked into it from every angle.
Its not economically possible with Uber rates !
I would like to offer it.
I am not a " part timer", so I would be available for 12 hour blocks of the day !

It can not be done on Uber !
Uber pays far too little !
Uber expects far too much for offering NOTHING !


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Two Disabled individuals are suing Uber for not being able to get an Uber.
> 
> Although Uber has launched a program for people with disabilities to use the car-hailing service, the program is not available in all the markets in which Uber operates. Two people who use wheelchairs have filed a lawsuit against Uber alleging that Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.
> 
> ...


I guarantee you these two individuals WILL NOT take the money they get from a lawsuit/settlement and re invest that money to start their own transportation service that caters to handicap individuals/much less get some wheels for themselves if they are somehow able to drive with some kind of modification.



tohunt4me said:


> I have looked into it from every angle.
> Its not economically possible with Uber rates !
> I would like to offer it.
> I am not a " part timer", so I would be available for 12 hour blocks of the day !
> ...


I would gladly buy a handicap van if I were to get paid more per mile than your regular uberx ride. Of course, this would be unfair to the customer. But these customers should be well aware how much more a wheelchair accessible van is, thus why they can not afford it themselves. (unless of course they are blind or something)

"Even if there are drivers on the road who have such a vehicle or training, there is no way for Jackson users with a disability to find a trained driver or accessible vehicle through the app."

I just hope every driver knows that the majority of wheelchairs are foldable and will easily fit in 4 door sedan's trunk and don't hesitate to ask the customer "How do I make this fold" They will gladly tell you how. You do not need to be trained. (Although it may be a wise idea to watch a couple videos on you tube about how you can lift a patient from a wheelchair to car, just so you dont hurt yourself, if the need arises)

The couple of riders I have picked up in wheelchairs though were pretty self sufficient and did not need my help lifting them. They have crazy upper arm strength.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Trebor said:


> I guarantee you these two individuals WILL NOT take the money they get from a lawsuit/settlement and re invest that money to start their own transportation service that caters to handicap individuals/much less get some wheels for themselves if they are somehow able to drive with some kind of modification.
> 
> I would gladly buy a handicap van if I were to get paid more per mile than your regular uberx ride. Of course, this would be unfair to the customer. But these customers should be well aware how much more a wheelchair accessible van is, thus why they can not afford it themselves. (unless of course they are blind or something)


The ONLY economically feasible approach to it is to buy at auction a 16 passenger cutaway van/ truck bus with turbo diesel(20-22 mpg) XL capacity ,power chair loader( good for tight spots,also has intimidating size and " official look")
Then you could achieve fuel economy,XL CAPACITY,and have room for up to 5 power chair passengers with floor strap downs.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> The ONLY economically feasible approach to it is to buy at auction a 16 passenger cutaway van/ truck bus with turbo diesel(20-22 mpg) XL capacity ,power chair loader( good for tight spots,also has intimidating size and " official look")
> Then you could achieve fuel economy,XL CAPACITY,and have room for up to 5 power chair passengers with floor strap downs.


The drunks would have a field day with this "party bus" as you can call it by night.

Lots of 5 stars coming your way!


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

When Uber started Uber Access I immediately said "whoa whoa whoa, stop the clock!".
I was in Boston when the first 30 WAV medallions were given away FREE by the city.
I of course applied for one. I stayed up all night filling out the application and since I was sleep deprived, my numbers didn't add up come 07:00.
Needless to say I was not awarded a WAV. I lacked the capital to.purchase a WAV van at the time.
I did however learn a boatload about the requirements for WAV transportation.
Uber was and is, out of their element and out of their minds.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> The ONLY economically feasible approach to it is to buy at auction a 16 passenger cutaway van/ truck bus with turbo diesel(20-22 mpg) XL capacity ,power chair loader( good for tight spots,also has intimidating size and " official look")
> Then you could achieve fuel economy,XL CAPACITY,and have room for up to 5 power chair passengers with floor strap downs.


Too bad that one is a 2002 and my city's cut off is 10 years.


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## OSC (Mar 22, 2017)

The cab companies really go after Uber. Those two disabled person must be affiliated with some taxi corporation.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Even the street cars here have handicap access.



OSC said:


> The cab companies really go after Uber. Those two disabled person must be affiliated with some taxi corporation.


If YOU own a taxi company,and you were forced to buy 2 handicap vans at a cost of $60,000.00 each for your city's 3 handicap customers then Uber comes in and GIVES AWAY RIDES at their DRIVERS EXPENSE
. . . Wouldn't You be MAD ?

PLAY BY THE RULES UBER!
PAY DRIVERS !

NO NEED TO TIP !

I am SURE if Uber paid FAIR COMPENSATION,Taxi companies would be glad to make their expensive handicap vehicles AVAILABLE to Uber 24/7 !



Trebor said:


> Too bad that one is a 2002 and my city's cut off is 10 years.


I know.
Just used it for illustrative purposes only.
Often newer year models 2015-2016 come available at auction for $1,000.00 with 100,000 miles. Some diesels will go 400-500k.
Also,studying the problems and fixes of modern " green" diesel engines and for a few hundred $$ you can remedy issues which may have led to an agency's listing.
Best bargains are with agencies that outsource the service and eliminate surplus vehicles.



TwoFiddyMile said:


> When Uber started Uber Access I immediately said "whoa whoa whoa, stop the clock!".
> I was in Boston when the first 30 WAV medallions were given away FREE by the city.
> I of course applied for one. I stayed up all night filling out the application and since I was sleep deprived, my numbers didn't add up come 07:00.
> Needless to say I was not awarded a WAV. I lacked the capital to.purchase a WAV van at the time.
> ...


I load wheelchairs in my trunk often. Both for Uber and for an x g.f.'s aunt.
No way could I handle a power wheelchair or scooter with my current vehicle.

Some of these surplus para transit vehicles also come equipped with bicycle rack on front number.

We have had some drivers refuse service at the airport.
I expect lawsuits SOON here also.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Disabled people suck!
A great small restaurant that had been in my town for 25+ years had to shut down because they were sued for not having a handicap ramp or handicap accessible bathrooms. Location was too small to do anything with it.
So lame.
You are disabled. You don't get to go everywhere! Accept it.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

P.s.- I like the vans


Trebor said:


> I guarantee you these two individuals WILL NOT take the money they get from a lawsuit/settlement and re invest that money to start their own transportation service that caters to handicap individuals/much less get some wheels for themselves if they are somehow able to drive with some kind of modification.
> 
> I would gladly buy a handicap van if I were to get paid more per mile than your regular uberx ride. Of course, this would be unfair to the customer. But these customers should be well aware how much more a wheelchair accessible van is, thus why they can not afford it themselves. (unless of course they are blind or something)
> 
> ...


They make vans where the front seats( including drivers) are removed,there are immobilization stations for chairs,hand controls for brake and acceleration.
For the less impaired there are swing out driver seats and passenger seats that electrically move back into position.
You can rig a van for a wheelchair passenger & driver.

Riding shotgun beats " back of the bus".
I have C.N.A.,E.M.T.-B., 1 1/2 YRS. L.P.N.
I researched doing this for Uber.
Uber is ungrateful to its drivers .
NO NEED TO TIP !!!

I would love loading up 1/2 dozen Downs kids in the para transit bus ,and taking them to Dr. Appointments etc. In their power chairs. Unfortunantly ,Uber is all insult and NO REWARD ;


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Trebor said:


> I guarantee you these two individuals WILL NOT take the money they get from a lawsuit/settlement and re invest that money to start their own transportation service that caters to handicap individuals/much less get some wheels for themselves if they are somehow able to drive with some kind of modification.
> 
> I would gladly buy a handicap van if I were to get paid more per mile than your regular uberx ride. Of course, this would be unfair to the customer. But these customers should be well aware how much more a wheelchair accessible van is, thus why they can not afford it themselves. (unless of course they are blind or something)
> 
> ...


I see an easy solution here. Uber can offer higher commission to handicap van drivers. They cannot charge the passenger more because that would be unlawful. However, they can easily pay the driver up to 25% more or even more than that counting the up front fee shenanigan or even the possibility to subsidize the handicap van drivers from the cut Uber takes from the other drivers.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> I see an easy solution here. Uber can offer higher commission to handicap van drivers. They cannot charge the passenger more because that would be unlawful. However, they can easily pay the driver up to 25% more or even more than that counting the up front fee shenanigan or even the possibility to subsidize the handicap van drivers from the cut Uber takes from the other drivers.


This is one law Uber can not change by ignoring it !

A.D.A. is NOT going away Uber.



Cableguynoe said:


> Disabled people suck!
> A great small restaurant that had been in my town for 25+ years had to shut down because they were sued for not having a handicap ramp or handicap accessible bathrooms. Location was too small to do anything with it.
> So lame.
> You are disabled. You don't get to go everywhere! Accept it.


So easy for you to hand an innocent person LIFE SENTENCE of imprisonment by exclusion !

Let's hope it never happens to You or a Family Member !

Imagine a life spent TRAPPED by narrow doorways !

I DARE you to borrow/ rent a chair for a day.
See the world from a different view.
Just 1 day.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

I go out of my way to help disabled people as much as possible, but the ADA rules should have exceptions for really small businesses especially when there are plenty of other options available.

The ADA rules are a major barrier to entry for a small business. If a small business can expand it might eventually be able to afford a wheelchair ramp which then means disabled people have a new option, but if you stop it from ever starting to begin with because of the unnafordable red tape, then that means a disabled person will never get that new option and will be stuck with the old existing businesses.

Let's just say I run a small business on the side, and let's say I also don't have an ADA complaint facility. If I ever had a customer on a wheelchair I'd be happy to use my muscles in my arms to lift his wheelchair up my stairs. It isn't like he is imprisoned by my stairs... he just has to put up with the possible embarrassment of needing some help getting up the steps.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> This is one law Uber can not change by ignoring it !
> 
> So easy for you to hand an innocent person LIFE SENTENCE of imprisonment by exclusion !
> 
> ...


I've been around plenty of disabled people in my life and understand it could be me at any moment.
My issue is that the ones that sue are usually mad at the world because of their situation. The world is designed for the majority. They should understand that and not expect everyone to adapt or make room for them.
Airlines aren't going to make larger chairs for the obese. They make them buy two seats.

The restaurant I mentioned, those people weren't making a ton of money. It was family run and they were just making it.
Put out of business by a pissed off lady in a wheelchair that couldn't find another freakin Taco joint in a town that's 80% Mexican.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

The debate seems to hinge on whether or not Uber is a "public accommodation."

Expecting EVERY transport method to accommodate wheelchairs is as silly as expecting EVERY pizza place to accommodate the lactose intolerant..

I've carried wheelchairs. Passenger moves self into usual car seat. I told up the chair and off we go. No problem.

Should someone insist on sitting in their chair .... Well, I'm willing to invest in a tow rope.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> View attachment 119140
> View attachment 119140
> 
> 
> ...


Now just try getting that chair on the escalator in the background !

In REAL LIFE ,you wont have an exhibit hall mall to park in !
( YOUR PICTURE BELOW)


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

This issue could spoil uber's business model accross a great number of markets. For Orlandoish i figure that Uber will eventually HAVE to sign on with one or more of the cab companies for this service, pay the drivers taxi rates, and charge the customers X rates. This is the only way that uber is going to get compliant with the law. (the ADA REQUIRES you to charge the same rates to the customer btw)

This is how UberWav works where it does exist...

And my one leggedness is why i know so much subject. 

20 years from now i may have to trade in my prosthetic leg for a power chair..

I'd like to be on a prosthetic leg for the rest of my life but i'm not under any illusions that it probobly won't go that way.

A power wheelchair is in the same price range as a prosthetic leg believe or not. When i first lost it there was a painful discussion about me being stuck in a chair if my stump couldn't handle the stress, or i just couldn't handle it.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> I go out of my way to help disabled people as much as possible, but the ADA rules should have exceptions for really small businesses especially when there are plenty of other options available.
> 
> The ADA rules are a major barrier to entry for a small business. If a small business can expand it might eventually be able to afford a wheelchair ramp which then means disabled people have a new option, but if you stop it from ever starting to begin with because of the unnafordable red tape, then that means a disabled person will never get that new option and will be stuck with the old existing businesses.
> 
> Let's just say I run a small business on the side, and let's say I also don't have an ADA complaint facility. If I ever had a customer on a wheelchair I'd be happy to use my muscles in my arms to lift his wheelchair up my stairs. It isn't like he is imprisoned by my stairs... he just has to put up with the possible embarrassment of needing some help getting up the steps.


And Christians should have exceptions to baking " Gay" cakes?
Racist Hospital owners should have exceptions to saving " different " people than themselves ?

Such a shame that we must be told things that we SHOULD ALREADY KNOW !

YET EVEN WITH LAWS,ALL OF THE SNOWFLAKES WANT TO BE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULES !


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> I see an easy solution here. Uber can offer higher commission to handicap van drivers. They cannot charge the passenger more because that would be unlawful. However, they can easily pay the driver up to 25% more or even more than that counting the up front fee shenanigan or even the possibility to subsidize the handicap van drivers from the cut Uber takes from the other drivers.


That just makes too much sense. Not only would they be able to avoid lawsuits like the one featured above, (they may even get some dropped on the basis they fixed their mistake, if these plaintiffs truly cared about the change, and not the money) but it would bring some much needed good p.r. to uber and wouldn't cost them a dime out of pocket.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Karen Stein said:


> The debate seems to hinge on whether or not Uber is a "public accommodation."
> 
> Expecting EVERY transport method to accommodate wheelchairs is as silly as expecting EVERY pizza place to accommodate the lactose intolerant..
> 
> ...


The ADA is a bulldozer that ruins good businesses...

If taxis can do it, they will force uber to do it,

My suspicion thou is that uber will simply partner with companies who are capable of providing these needs.



Karen Stein said:


> The debate seems to hinge on whether or not Uber is a "public accommodation."
> 
> Expecting EVERY transport method to accommodate wheelchairs is as silly as expecting EVERY pizza place to accommodate the lactose intolerant..
> 
> ...


As someone with disabilities who might need a power chair one day, that's an incredibly insensitive thing to say. Not everyone has a *choice* of being able to get out their wheelchair. Not everyone is blessed like i am in that i can almost fix my disability by strapping on a fake leg. Not everyone can self propel a standard wheelchair.

People with these needs currently CAN'T summon uber rides in most markets at all, that's why they are suing in the first place, because uber is serving everyone _*but them*_ with extremely cheap rides relative to the taxis.

They are suing because Uber is reinventing for-hire transportation and leaving them out.

Because taxi companies _*have*_ been able to comply, the ADA will give uber exactly zero wiggle room.

If the taxi companies couldn't get away with it, there's no possible way uber will.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Karen Stein said:


> The debate seems to hinge on whether or not Uber is a "public accommodation."
> 
> Expecting EVERY transport method to accommodate wheelchairs is as silly as expecting EVERY pizza place to accommodate the lactose intolerant..
> 
> ...


Sounds like Hitlers " solution" for the handicapped.
Drag them behind a car . . .

With Govt. Healthcare,I predict legal Euthanasia Vans for those of retirement age within 3 decades !
Watch.
See where America has gone in the LAST 3 decades.



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> The ADA is a bulldozer that ruins good businesses...
> 
> If taxis can do it, they will force uber to do it,
> 
> ...


In " Other Words" Uber is ROBBING them of the Hard Won battles of the last 1/2 CENTURY !

BUT WAIT !
NOT SO FAST !
LAWSUIT !
THE REAPER HAS COME TO CALL . . .
UBER MUST PAY TO PLAY.

" NO NEED TO TIP "!

" I AM CERTAIN UBER WILL DO THE RIGHT THING. AFTER THEY HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING ELSE . . .!"-paraphrase of Sir Winston Churchill


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Cableguynoe said:


> Disabled people suck!
> A great small restaurant that had been in my town for 25+ years had to shut down because they were sued for not having a handicap ramp or handicap accessible bathrooms. Location was too small to do anything with it.
> So lame.
> You are disabled. You don't get to go everywhere! Accept it.


Boohoo. They likely had nearly 25 years to correct their problem. Why is it the majority of businesses big and small were able to comply but not this restaurant? Why do some people think rules do not apply to them? Expanding the bathroom could be pricey, but not really. You still only need one restroom from my understanding, (most small businesses only have one). Woudnt of been hard to knock out the walls to expand it and throw some railings in there. Ramps, what a joke. You can buy some quickcrete to get the job done or use 2x4's, so long as the angle is good. In the grand scheme of things, all of this would of just of been a drop in the bucket. Its a one time deal. Pay it, get over it, or move to a new compliant location (if the restaurant was as good as you say, customers will follow them down the street)

I do agree with your last statement generally. These people amongst people of certain races, gays and such are sue happy. If you cant go to a place, so be it, get over it. There are a million other places just like it. It sucks to be discriminated. I know, but get over yourself sometimes. Is that small restaurant really deserving your business if you get them to place a ramp?


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

I hope every disabled person in the USA sues Uber. And I hope they all win. Travis is a jerk.



Karen Stein said:


> The debate seems to hinge on whether or not Uber is a "public accommodation."
> 
> Expecting EVERY transport method to accommodate wheelchairs is as silly as expecting EVERY pizza place to accommodate the lactose intolerant..
> 
> ...


Uber is a nationwide Taxi service that takes advantage of everyone. I hope they get their pants sued off. The estimated value of Uber is 70 billion dollars. They can afford to accommodate the disabled. They should actually be ashamed that they haven't.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Two Disabled individuals are suing Uber for not being able to get an Uber.
> 
> Although Uber has launched a program for people with disabilities to use the car-hailing service, the program is not available in all the markets in which Uber operates. Two people who use wheelchairs have filed a lawsuit against Uber alleging that Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.
> 
> ...


This is an interesting issue considering that Uber is not a transportation company and that they don't provide any transportation services. 
I am not trying to defend Uber, I hate Uber.
So, if there are no providers, is it really Uber's responsibility?


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Too Many Miles said:


> This is an interesting issue considering that Uber is not a transportation company and that they don't provide any transportation services.
> I am not trying to defend Uber, I hate Uber.
> So, if there are no providers, is it really Uber's responsibility?


Uber not being a transportation provider is a ridiculous statement.

An ADA case may set the precedent for them being a transportation company.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

Jagent said:


> I hope every disabled person in the USA sues Uber. And I hope they all win. Travis is a jerk.
> 
> Uber is a nationwide Taxi service that takes advantage of everyone. I hope they get their pants sued off. The estimated value of Uber is 70 billion dollars. They can afford to accommodate the disabled. They should actually be ashamed that they haven't.


You are wrong, Uber is not a taxi service, it is a service that connects riders with passengers. If there is no demand, they are not responsible; if there is no supply, they are not responsible.
As long as they get away with not being categorized as a transportation company they will get away with anything, that is the biggest loophole that allows for their business model and it is the same loophole that is screwing up the drivers by being independent contractors treated as employees.


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

Even if there were wheelchair vehicles available they would probably still complain that they have to pay a premium.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Uber not being a transportation provider is a ridiculous statement.
> 
> An ADA case may set the precedent for them being a transportation company.


Yes it is ridiculous but it is what they hang on from and so far they has been getting away with it. We all know that they sell transportation, but legally they don't.


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

Too Many Miles said:


> You are wrong, Uber is not a taxi service, it is a service that connects riders with passengers. If there is no demand, they are not responsible; if there is no supply, they are not responsible.
> As long as they get away with not being categorized as a transportation company they will get away with anything, that is the biggest loophole that allows for their business model and it is the same loophole that is screwing up the drivers by being independent contractors treated as employees.


I bet the ADA doesn't think I'm wrong.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

Jagent said:


> I bet the ADA doesn't think I'm wrong.


It is not about what they think. At the end the courts decide based on laws, not common sense. So far Uber has been winning the battle about not being a transportation company, which I think is incredible. The closest was California, which would not buy the "technology company" argument, but still did not categorized them as transportation company, instead they created a new category (TNC) and set "some rules". I believe most states have not done that yet, which is a good way of forcing them with some rules.



Too Many Miles said:


> It is not about what they think. At the end the courts decide based on laws, not common sense. So far Uber has been winning the battle about not being a transportation company, which I think is incredible. The closest was California, which would not buy the "technology company" argument, but still did not categorized them as transportation company, instead they created a new category (TNC) and set "some rules". I believe most states have not done that yet, which is a good way of forcing them with some rules.


Unfortunately the laws have not caught up with technology and this is how all these loopholes exist.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Another phalanx of regulations that Mr. Kalanick didn't consider when he decided to launch his quest to achieve world hegemony in the transportation field.

Dealing with the federal requirements of the ADA is one thing, but every city, village, country has different regs on this and a hundred different issues. I don't see how Uber can hope to stay in compliance, unless they hire an army of compliance officers. He'll probably have to increase the Uber taste on fares to fund this.


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## Veju (Apr 17, 2017)

This is an expensive problem, perhaps Uber should sub out the disabled rides to equipped and trained operators.i don't want the liability or that god ugly lift on my vehicles. It's not going to be cheap, and no one is going to take these gigs without a living wage. Uber will have to subsidize the rides to keep the disabled from paying more for the same service. Reasonable accommodations will have to be made.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

They won't contract with a taxi co. , but maybe contract with a mobility access company.

Then again, that muddles IC versus employee statuses.

It might be the only way to get around it, though, as people with high-level mobility needs would need specifically sized or equipped vehicles. How else do you carry a power wheelchair for someone with, say, multiple sclerosis? Lift the heavy chair in by hand, and hoist the passenger into the car? Could be done, but too risky. (What if the driver is June, i.e. Lyft's little old lady? Make her lift a wheelchair into her TNC vehicle?)


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Too Many Miles said:


> but legally they don't.


Wrong. They have yet to be found as not being a transportation provider. In fact, in almost every court and legal case the drivers have been found to be employees, which means they are a transportation provider.


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## Safe_Driver_4_U (Apr 2, 2017)

Uber may beat it because Uber is not a transportation provider, the driver is, Uber provides a communications app for a sales commission NOT transportation, they make that very clear in their contract. It's the drivers that will have to provide 20% services to disabled persons. Can Ford be held liable because they don't manufacture 20% vehicles for disabled persons. Uber may have screw themselves in this deal when they offered WAV because they then accepted responsibility. This will be interesting I wonder what took so long for this lawsuit to show up! Here in California there are disabled people patrolling businesses seeking lawsuits.


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## UberTrucker (Jan 8, 2016)

How can a driver driving a Prius help when a damn wheel chair is bigger then the Prius


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Safe_Driver_4_U said:


> Uber may beat it because Uber is not a transportation provider, the driver is, .


I can't see the ADA lawyers just accepting that, they'll fight it through. Oftentimes, their goal is to get a nice settlement and get paid- a lot less concerned about future remedies.

Uber's partners generally can't write a $30,000 or $50,000 check to make a case go away, its sort of pointless to drag them through the mud. The lawyers are businessmen



UberTrucker said:


> How can a driver driving a Prius help when a damn wheel chair is bigger then the Prius


The court could order him to trade it in for a Suburban or Astro Van or something. A Prius is obviously not ADA compliant.


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## UberTrucker (Jan 8, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> I can't see the ADA lawyers just accepting that, they'll fight it through. Oftentimes, their goal is to get a nice settlement and get paid- a lot less concerned about future remedies.
> 
> Uber's partners generally can't write a $30,000 or $50,000 check to make a case go away, its sort of pointless to drag them through the mud. The lawyers are businessmen
> 
> The court could order him to trade it in for a Suburban or Astro Van or something. A Prius is obviously not ADA compliant.


Maybe they'll pack the Prius into the wheelchair


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## TedInTampa (Apr 5, 2017)

If there was another category for Uber that paid like black/premium/select, for any vehicle that can haul a chair, I would make more. Here's a picture of my tail.


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## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

I feel sorry for the US . These two disabled people got nothing better to do but thinking of ways to get money so they Find business or uber to sue . I hope they loose the this court case and make them pay for their own legal fee to teach other disable not to seek a lawsuit just for the sake of money . They say they can't get a ride with uber then uber should give them free ride for a year if they win this case but no money .


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Uber would have to do some serious subsidizing to get this to work at X rates. Taxi companies have a little wiggle room with profits from higher fares and dispatching favors to somehow subsidize these. Likewise Uber would need to raise more fees for all rides to pay for a program like many taxi companies are forced to have.

It's tough to even make it work at taxi rates. The vehicles are expensive to purchase and operate. Also, the trips are short and time consuming.

This is yet another reason why taxi rates are 'so high' - in part because they have to essentially subsidize rides like this. And other parts go to pay for other required laws, taxes, insurance, and licenses.

For a detailed study:
https://www.tlpa.org/costcalculator/report.pdf


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## darkshy77 (Sep 28, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Two Disabled individuals are suing Uber for not being able to get an Uber.
> 
> Although Uber has launched a program for people with disabilities to use the car-hailing service, the program is not available in all the markets in which Uber operates. Two people who use wheelchairs have filed a lawsuit against Uber alleging that Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.
> 
> ...


Uber should have a few cars at the local office for this... Now Uber is Not a taxi it's ride share. So my private car needs to be able to talk wheelchair I think not


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## Novus Caesar (Dec 15, 2015)

This would be like suing airbnb for advertising a home that is not wheelchair accessible.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

This is on Uber. Uber opened this can of worms by starting Uber Accessible.
So dum...

What did TK think was going to happen when he casually started a program for WAV which is a federally regulated mode of transportation?
He's a petulant child.


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## Safe_Driver_4_U (Apr 2, 2017)

Icecool said:


> I feel sorry for the US . These two disabled people got nothing better to do but thinking of ways to get money so they Find business or uber to sue . I hope they loose the this court case and make them pay for their own legal fee to teach other disable not to seek a lawsuit just for the sake of money . They say they can't get a ride with uber then uber should give them free ride for a year if they win this case but no money .


 here in the US any business that offers service to the public must provide a percentage of services as accessible for disabled persons as well as universal access to all services.

TK asked for it


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## Uber Steve LV (Sep 28, 2015)

Uber doesn't own cars, it's not their fault that contractors do not have them.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Two Disabled individuals are suing Uber for not being able to get an Uber.
> 
> Although Uber has launched a program for people with disabilities to use the car-hailing service, the program is not available in all the markets in which Uber operates. Two people who use wheelchairs have filed a lawsuit against Uber alleging that Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.
> 
> ...


How would a driver less car handle this situation?


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Uber Steve LV said:


> Uber doesn't own cars, it's not their fault that contractors do not have them.


I have a question for you,

There are cab companies that don't own ANY cars and just franchise out to independent owner/operators. It's not how i roll, nor have I ever worked for one. But there are a good many of these out there depending on how the local rules are set up, these may or may not exist in any particular city.

These cab companies for all intensive purposes have a nearly identical business model to uber. They own zero cars, the drivers handle insurance, No joke, virtually identical business model. All the "company" does is dispatch fares and answer phones. They are held to this same exact exact rules regarding wheelchair accessible vehicles, they DEEPLY discount the franchise fees they charge the drivers with wheelchair vans to make it worth their while, or provide other incentives. Or they just get way more daytime business being in a wheelchair taxi, maybe all of the above.

Literally! the only difference taxi companies that do this model and uber, is the size the logo they want displayed on the car. 3 inches on the windshield Vs 3 feet on the side of the car.

Uber isn't going to get away with it. Public support won't mean diddly when the ADA comes knocking. The ADA exists solely to protect a single minority group from discrimination by the majority.

At best uber scrambles and signs on a bunch of cab companies to make it work, And on top of it they will have to subsidize the rates they pay the drivers to a heck of a lot closer to taxi fares, while only charging the customers the uberX rate.

At worst they are forced to dump large quantities of their cash reserves to pay off a lawsuit/fines, and pull out of markets where they can't get companies to partner with them.



REX HAVOC said:


> How would a driver less car handle this situation?


Well... my driverless taxi would have a wheelchair lift that you roll onto, it lifts you to interior level, then you roll yourself in.

Then a trained monkey straps your wheelchair in and the car proceeds as normal. (As funny as this sounds i have no better idea with current technology) Imagine if Steven hawking summoned a ride using an app. Assume you have an automatic lift and automatic doors, he could roll into the car, but it's beyond his ability to strap his own chair down.

using robots to reliably strap down wheelchairs that vary greatly in design, function, size, ect is a huge question mark. "Wheelchairs" can look like everything and anything between a large stroller and a rascal scooter. Doing a one size fits all solution for restraining the chair can't and won't work.

The reality is that it will be a very very long time until a self driver car can completely take over the job. There will always be a number of vehicles needed with human drivers. Whether it's because of situations like this, Robophobia (people who are afraid of robots), or just because the customer wants a human driver..


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

Perhaps Uber could incentivize drivers to make their minivans accessible by not taking a commission, only the booking fee. And XL rates for anyone with a wheelchair. A full time driver could earn $1500 a week, with the wheelchair business on the weekdays and the large drunk groups on the weekends


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## Safe_Driver_4_U (Apr 2, 2017)

maybe TK opened WAV to cover his ass from these lawsuits, he can say he is providing access on the app, problem is the market isn't providing the rides. He has done his part, I bet that is what Uber's defense will be. If the courts say Uber must provide an accessible car that means only a few possibilities, independent contractors, Uber contracts with private company or they start their own WAV division with employees. This could drag on in courts for a looong time, interesting to see the outcome.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

nickd8775 said:


> Perhaps Uber could incentivize drivers to make their minivans accessible by not taking a commission, only the booking fee. And XL rates for anyone with a wheelchair. A full time driver could earn $1500 a week, with the wheelchair business on the weekdays and the large drunk groups on the weekends


They would have to not take a commission period..

Charging XL rates wouldn't suffice, they have to charge X rates to be in complete compliance with ADA rules. The rules state you can't charge more for people with disabilities.

And after conversion the vans can't handle 7 people anymore anyway. At best you could do is X or X+1 depending on how the conversion is done, put the middle seat back in but nothing you can handle on demand except for taking the middle seat out and carrying it to the trunk EVERY time you load a wheelchair passenger.

The van conversion aren't cheap, realistically it's $10,000+ to make a van compliant, and your going to loose 3-4 seats off the capacity anyway you do it.

Side loading takes out the middle row of seating plus front passenger to make room for a wheelchair, sometimes the front passenger seat as well. Most of the cars i see in this configuration seat a max of 5 total. driver plus a jump seat in the front, 3 in the 3rd row, no second row.

Rear loading cuts out rear bench leaving a capacity for 4-5 customers. You can either do 2 2 2 config with the last row being a fold down jump seat, or 2 3 with no third row at all.

You could theoretically carry a folding wheelchair and then strap someone in the wheelchair to get an extra person in the car. Personally i think that's a craptastidc idea and i have only ever seen it done when someone in the party is already in a folding wheelchair and not transferring is the difference between getting a second taxi or not.

https://www.ride-away.com/research/wheelchair-van-floor-plan-options/
This website shows the basics of how the conversion would affect the floor plan of the cab.

So... converting an XL vehicle to Wav would involve downgrading it from XL to X AND pulling $10,000 out of somewhere to make it happen. There's literately nothing but downsides to doing this.

If i was uber... the only solutions would be...

A. Having short term lease vehicles at a LOSS just to get them on the road, they would be X/Wav Only. This would be the enterprise rental model, not the exchange business model. ($50,000 per car)

B. Sub contracting to licensed companies. (operating at a loss for every wheelchair ride they give)

C. Having a small number of "employee" drivers in uber owned wheechair vans...

Begging people to do conversions that only downgrade cars is not a smart idea... in any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## Andre Benjamin 6000 (Nov 11, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> Should someone insist on sitting in their chair .... Well, I'm willing to invest in a tow rope.


Wow....

Low life behavior...

I'm sure you'll backtrack & say you were just joking, though. Right? But even the joke is despicable as most ppl, with even an ounce of class, don't find jokes about the disabled funny...


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Wrong. They have yet to be found as not being a transportation provider. In fact, in almost every court and legal case the drivers have been found to be employees, which means they are a transportation provider.


Read the transcripts from California when they created the TNC category. Nobody has proved yet that they are a transportation company, nor that we are employees. The California labor department is still fighting that. There has been a couple of cases where the drivers were found to be employees ( one was reverted by the Labor board in Florida) but since they were individual law suits it does not apply to the rest. This is one of the reasons why the California/Massachusetts class action continues. Uber tries to settle so there is no judgment against them, then they continue operating the same way.



I_Like_Spam said:


> I can't see the ADA lawyers just accepting that, they'll fight it through. Oftentimes, their goal is to get a nice settlement and get paid- a lot less concerned about future remedies.
> 
> Uber's partners generally can't write a $30,000 or $50,000 check to make a case go away, its sort of pointless to drag them through the mud. The lawyers are businessmen
> 
> The court could order him to trade it in for a Suburban or Astro Van or something. A Prius is obviously not ADA compliant.


The court can't do that to an individual, what will be the criteria to select who gets a vehicle for disable people?

The only solution under the current conditions is that Uber partners with other companies to avoid the expenses of a law suit and subsidize the cost because nobody is going to do it for X rates. Uber would have to analyze both situations and figure out which one is cheaper. But Uber has a history of fighting hard.



Trafficat said:


> I see an easy solution here. Uber can offer higher commission to handicap van drivers. They cannot charge the passenger more because that would be unlawful. However, they can easily pay the driver up to 25% more or even more than that counting the up front fee shenanigan or even the possibility to subsidize the handicap van drivers from the cut Uber takes from the other drivers.


Giving the drivers the entire fare is not enough, those services are usually subsidized by insurance companies or the goverment's, the vehicles are not cheap, and they will probably not allow old worn out vans.



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> I have a question for you,
> 
> There are cab companies that don't own ANY cars and just franchise out to independent owner/operators. It's not how i roll, nor have I ever worked for one. But there are a good many of these out there depending on how the local rules are set up, these may or may not exist in any particular city.
> 
> ...


The most obvious difference between Uber and taxis use to be that Uber used a digital dispatcher, something that many taxi companies now have.
The key difference between the two is that Uber founders all the loopholes in the laws and built their business model around that.
Make no mistake, eventually things will change but it will be a slow process because Uber has an enormous wallet for lobbying.



nickd8775 said:


> Perhaps Uber could incentivize drivers to make their minivans accessible by not taking a commission, only the booking fee. And XL rates for anyone with a wheelchair. A full time driver could earn $1500 a week, with the wheelchair business on the weekdays and the large drunk groups on the weekends


If the driver owns the vehicle, $1500 per week does not give him enough return on the investment plus compensation for working. The vehicle conventions are not cheap.


----------



## TechBill (Jun 26, 2016)

I am disabled myself and I have been disabled since birth. I know ADA laws pretty well and ADA isn't what you all thought it to be.

Those stories about how ADA killed small businesses, it either those small businesses hired a crappy lawyers to defend them or it just a fake stories to scare businesses making themselves more disable-friendly. ADA does protect small business from undue burden and it will not force them to make changes for a disabled person if it will put undue burden on them.

I am sorry to say but those wheelchair folks will probably get nothing out of this lawsuit since there are other companies in their town that could provide them transportation when needed.

Here link to myth and facts FAQ directly from ADA government site 
https://www.ada.gov/pubs/mythfct.txt


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## OverTheBarrell (May 7, 2017)

How can you sue a company for NOT advertising or providing a product? 
This isn't public transportation, and No uber X driver is going out to fit thier vehicles with electric/hydraulic ramps .. lol 

Some ppl. 
Peace Out from Australia


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

OverTheBarrell said:


> How can you sue a company for NOT advertising or providing a product?
> This isn't public transportation, and No uber X driver is going out to fit thier vehicles with electric/hydraulic ramps .. lol
> 
> Some ppl.
> Peace Out from Australia


Lol.
They did offer and advertise handicapped accessible transportation.
Oops, there goes your thesis.


----------



## Scruffy one (Oct 21, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Two Disabled individuals are suing Uber for not being able to get an Uber. Do they sue friends that don't have special training and vehicle to transport them? Doubt it. We are NOT medical transport. We are not required to have disability convenient vehicles. I'm not in a wheelchair, though I am disabled & have been in a wheelchair more than once. I would never expect a ride share system to have specialty equipment, unless my vehicle has to be set up that way for me.
> 
> Although Uber has launched a program for people with disabilities to use the car-hailing service, the program is not available in all the markets in which Uber operates. Two people who use wheelchairs have filed a lawsuit against Uber alleging that Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.
> 
> ...


----------



## Snowtop (Nov 11, 2014)

This is no coincidence that the suit was filed in Mississippi. Lawyers have known for years that civil suits in Mississippi have a higher percentage of wins for the plaintiff and much bigger rewards. This is the place the awarded millions to a lady because she spilled hot coffee from McDonalds on her lap.

Also, yes the lawyers will keep most of the money but I will bet my house that the people named as plaintiffs did not seek out these lawyers because the felt some sort of injustice. The lawyers found them and offered a decent payday for a couple of depositions and there name on a suit. This just may be the tip of the iceberg. I can easily see this grown into a class action suit for involving the entire country.

Now if it gets traction, Uber will have an even bigger problem. If the Justice Department decides Uber is in violation of the ADA and brings suit....


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Lol.
> They did offer and advertise handicapped accessible transportation.
> Oops, there goes your thesis.


Yes, but there has to be vehicles. They advertise X, XL, etc., if people can't get an Uber X because they are not available, it doesn't mean Uber can get sued. If a MC Donalds runs out of hamburgers you can't sue them. You can only sue them if you spill their coffee on your legs while you drive.



TwoFiddyMile said:


> Lol.
> They did offer and advertise handicapped accessible transportation.
> Oops, there goes your thesis.


The offer is based on availability, not guaranteed. They offer to connect riders with available vehicles.



Snowtop said:


> This is no coincidence that the suit was filed in Mississippi. Lawyers have known for years that civil suits in Mississippi have a higher percentage of wins for the plaintiff and much bigger rewards. This is the place the awarded millions to a lady because she spilled hot coffee from McDonalds on her lap.
> 
> Also, yes the lawyers will keep most of the money but I will bet my house that the people named as plaintiffs did not seek out these lawyers because the felt some sort of injustice. The lawyers found them and offered a decent payday for a couple of depositions and there name on a suit. This just may be the tip of the iceberg. I can easily see this grown into a class action suit for involving the entire country.
> 
> Now if it gets traction, Uber will have an even bigger problem. If the Justice Department decides Uber is in violation of the ADA and brings suit....


There is a lot of misconception about that case.
It was in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Mc donalds had their coffee at around 185 degrees while everyone else had it at around 140.
the burns were serious and she spent 8 days hospitalized.
She was not the driver and the car was stopped so she could put cream.
The Jury awarded 200k for compensatory damages reduced to 160k for being 20% at fault and 2.7 million, later reduced to 480k for punitive damages.
There was also a secret settlement.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

If the ADA can force taxi companies to roll with Wavs they sure as heck can force Uber...



OverTheBarrell said:


> How can you sue a company for NOT advertising or providing a product?
> This isn't public transportation, and No uber X driver is going out to fit thier vehicles with electric/hydraulic ramps .. lol
> 
> Some ppl.
> Peace Out from Australia


 To this I agree...

But the ADA won't let a multi BILLION dollar company get away with this forever...

Another issue is that there is Up to a 300-400% DIFFERENCE in price between UberX and taxi services, one can make an argument that there is NO equivilant service and that uber is descriminating against people with certain disabilities because it's cheaper...



TechBill said:


> ADA does protect small business from undue burden and it will not force them to make changes for a disabled person if it will put undue burden on them.


Undue burden?

Can you really say it's an undue burden to force uber to do it if the ADA can force taxi companies to do it and they oblige?

Forcing an owner operator to have a specific car with an expensive conversion is an undue burdon...

But the line between taxi companies and uber's whatever the crap business model is rapidly collapsing. The fact that they are now leasing cars to drivers to use makes the distinction rapidly go out the window.

Let's compare what i do for a taxi company to what uber Does with exchange...

Independent contractor,
Leasing a vehicle owned by a large corporation,
That puts it's name on the car
That provides dispatch service
That retains the ability to end the business partnership without notice if the contractor misbehaves.
That gives the contractor free reign
That expects the contractor to pay up every week.

Now who was I talking about?
Uber exchange?
The cab company?
Or both?

There are cab companies that currently run an indeticle business model to Uber's, at this very moment.

When the ADA says enough is enough Uber will have to figure this out.

And i argue that Uber Wav is Uber's response to the ADA, so it proves my point.

Until Uber get's uber wav in every US market they are going to lose these lawsuits. IF they can't get something set up it may be cheaper to pull out of markets than to repeatedly lose lawsuits.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

'



tohunt4me said:


> The ONLY economically feasible approach to it is to buy at auction a 16 passenger cutaway van/ truck bus with turbo diesel(20-22 mpg) XL capacity ,power chair loader( good for tight spots,also has intimidating size and " official look")
> Then you could achieve fuel economy,XL CAPACITY,and have room for up to 5 power chair passengers with floor strap downs.


Not to mention some serious bar fridge capacity 



REX HAVOC said:


> How would a driver less car handle this situation?


Without hands?


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## TechBill (Jun 26, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> If the ADA can force taxi companies to roll with Wavs they sure as heck can force Uber...
> 
> To this I agree...
> 
> ...


Uber are not the one that provides a driver and vehicle but a service where they would try to match a driver and vehicle for the customer. 
The "undue burden" would be placed upon the drivers who signed up to be a ride-share drivers since they are the one that provide the vehicle and they will be the ones who would have to equipped their vehicle to be disable-friendly not Uber.

In my town there are about 3 different taxis companies and none of them have a wheelchair accessible vehicle because all of them are a small mom and pop business with less than 5 cars/vans in their fleets. Even purchasing one wheelchair accessible vehicle would place a undue burden on them since it wouldn't get used often enough to cover the cost alone.

I am Deaf and if the undue burden didn't exist in ADA then we could have easily forced every Uber driver to either know sign language or have a certificated interpreter riding along in every Uber car just in case if a Deaf person request a ride. A certificated interpreter runs about 30 to 55 dollars per hour.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

Until the loophole is closed, Uber is to ground transportation what Expedia and all the other booking services are to the airlines.
The loophole is also what allows Uber to control the prices, something they should not have. By doing so, Uber is not allowing free market and competition in a market they claim not to be part of, this is very unfair. Uber should connect drivers with riders where drivers compete for the transportation market.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

TechBill said:


> Uber are not the one that provides a driver and vehicle but a service where they would try to match a driver and vehicle for the customer.
> 
> When I was an Indy cab driver just having a stack of cards with a dispatch number of a company that had Wavs was all i had to do.
> 
> ...


You're right.. it is an undue burdon for someone who has a few cars...

It's also NOT an undue burden to require a service to redispatch Wav fares to a service that can handle them or REQUIRE them to provide contact info. It's also not an undue burden to require a small firm to have a contract with a provider who can.

Uber has been FORCED to provide uberT rides at X prices... Why?

Because a WAV taxi is the closest equivalent service to uberX.

It's also not been found an undue burden to force a company to provide services that are more expensive at a lower cost just because it's the closest service that exists.

Hotels providing complimentary transportation have been FORCED to provide free of charge an alternative method of transportation (AKA a taxi) because they don't have a Wav.

The cab company i drive for has contracts with a number of hotels for providing Wavs for this very use. It doesn't even come up often, and the customer has to schedule when they want rides from the hotel in advance.

A small hotel with a single 10 passenger van might need it once or twice a month... Most of the time it's a non issue, they can go days days without running into it, it's probobly cheaper than buying a wheelchair van. But it still costs them money.

Undue burdon is a funny thing....


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Two Disabled individuals are suing Uber for not being able to get an Uber.
> 
> Although Uber has launched a program for people with disabilities to use the car-hailing service, the program is not available in all the markets in which Uber operates. Two people who use wheelchairs have filed a lawsuit against Uber alleging that Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.
> 
> ...


Have you read the Texas state bill which will likely pass? Uber can pay a $20,000 fee to avoid having to provide disabled access. They just have to refer pax to someone who can (gee, taxis?!). It's a travesty.


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## Safe_Driver_4_U (Apr 2, 2017)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Have you read the Texas state bill which will likely pass? Uber can pay a $20,000 fee to avoid having to provide disabled access. They just have to refer pax to someone who can (gee, taxis?!). It's a travesty.


 why is that a travesty? The disabled person still gets a ride and a business isn't given a huge financial burden especially when there are other viable options. It is a travesty if the intention is to financially harm a business. I think it's a travesty that the ADA and litigants force many access requirements that are never used or if rarely used another much more affordable solution can be utilized.


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## TedInTampa (Apr 5, 2017)

TechBill said:


> I am Deaf and if the undue burden didn't exist in ADA then we could have easily forced every Uber driver to either know sign language or have a certificated interpreter riding along in every Uber car just in case if a Deaf person request a ride. A certificated interpreter runs about 30 to 55 dollars per hour.


Pen and paper. Been there, done that, it worked. Later in life, with the Uber app, when someone deaf rode, I pulled up the address, pointed to it, got a nod, smiled, and drove. Now, deaf/blind would be a challenge, but don't they usually have a fully trained helper themselves?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Trafficat said:


> I see an easy solution here. Uber can offer higher commission to handicap van drivers. They cannot charge the passenger more because that would be unlawful. However, they can easily pay the driver up to 25% more or even more than that counting the up front fee shenanigan or even the possibility to subsidize the handicap van drivers from the cut Uber takes from the other drivers.


Considering all the extra money uber pays out in boosts, guarantees, etc. to avoid surge, not to mention the payments for driver referrals, charging the customer the regular rate while paying the driver 2 or 3x more would not be that big a deal for them, considering how small a % of their business would be handicapped and need a special vehicle (many handicapped riders are fine in a regular car).

The cost is part of doing business and is paid by charging a little more than they otherwise would to all the customers.

If I go out to eat part of bill is paying for that wheelchair ramp. I will likely never need it, but I don't have a problem with that.

Very small businesses can be burdened by some requirements, especially if it's a case of retrofitting, but for a supposedly 70 billion dollar company, subsidizing the small % of customers who require special access SHOULD be a no brainer.

The government needs to stop accepting this "technology company" bullshit uber keeps getting away with.



Safe_Driver_4_U said:


> why is that a travesty? The disabled person still gets a ride and a business isn't given a huge financial burden especially when there are other viable options. It is a travesty if the intention is to financially harm a business. I think it's a travesty that the ADA and litigants force many access requirements that are never used or if rarely used another much more affordable solution can be utilized.


They don't get a ride at the same rates OR necessarily even the same service. It's as if they always have to go to the 3x more expensive restaurant next door with the longer wait time to be seated.

It's a bit like the "separate but equal" argument. After all, why should "colored people" complain if they can just eat somewhere else?


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

Trebor said:


> I guarantee you these two individuals WILL NOT take the money they get from a lawsuit/settlement and re invest that money to start their own transportation service that caters to handicap individuals/much less get some wheels for themselves if they are somehow able to drive with some kind of modification.
> 
> I would gladly buy a handicap van if I were to get paid more per mile than your regular uberx ride. Of course, this would be unfair to the customer. But these customers should be well aware how much more a wheelchair accessible van is, thus why they can not afford it themselves. (unless of course they are blind or something)
> 
> ...


I've driven a foldable wheelchair pax in my prius c. Had to put the parts in the front pax seat but we made it happen. Even helped pax in and out of the car. An electric wheelchair wouldn't have worked obviously.


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## Safe_Driver_4_U (Apr 2, 2017)

[QUOTE="Fuzzyelvis, post: They don't get a ride at the same rates OR necessarily even the same service. It's as if they always have to go to the 3x more expensive restaurant next door with the longer wait time to be seated.

It's a bit like the "separate but equal" argument. After all, why should "colored people" complain if they can just eat somewhere else?[/QUOTE] project this reasoning forward and you get: In your service area, there are 15% Asian population, 10% black, 45% hispanic, 2% electric wheel chair disabled therefore you must document and drive those equal percentages of populations.


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## TedInTampa (Apr 5, 2017)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> It's a bit like the "separate but equal" argument. After all, why should "colored people" complain if they can just eat somewhere else?


Malice and genuine burden.

A non-white takes exactly the same space as a white. A woman the exact same seat as a man. Not serving someone because of skin color or sex is racism and sexism. Not changing the structure of my vehicle to accommodate someone I have yet to meet is not discrimination. To accommodate my wife's powered chair, my church put a piece of baseboard outside the door to act as a ramp for the 3/4" step. I'm sure it was left over from previous work...$0, 10 minutes.

Widening the doors and hallways of a historic building, then adding an elevator... Undue burden all the way. Forcing a Muslim to sing Easter songs at a church, or a Jew to bake for the local Nazi club, or a black to cater to the KKK rally or a Christian to bake a cake for a homosexual union is just wrong and mean. Sure, force the Muslim to sell tickets to Christians who want to go to his concert. Sure, force the Jew to sell a cake off the shelf to someone in an SS uniform. Yes, the black restraint owner must serve the known KKK members, unless they make a scene. Sure, the Christians had already sold many baked goods to the Lesbians after knowing their relationship...no force was needed. But to the people who compare not taking a black person as a fare with not baking a cake celebrating something against your religion or moral beliefs and not renovating your car to transport a man using an iron lung.... There are huge differences.

I kicked someone out of my van when the 2nd passenger arrived with a freshly snuffed cigar and I was called a racist. I could not handle that smell for the rest of the night.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

K-pax said:


> I've driven a foldable wheelchair pax in my prius c. Had to put the parts in the front pax seat but we made it happen. Even helped pax in and out of the car. An electric wheelchair wouldn't have worked obviously.


The funny thing is, we shouldn't have to worry about an electric wheelchair. The person using the electric wheelchair most likely already knows that 99% of ubers are not going to be made to accommodate them and they should look for other forms of transportation like the city bus, a cab company that has this in place etc. They should already know this and therefore should not be requesting an uber in the first place, unless they literally are (no offense intended) rtarded.


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## westsidebum (Feb 7, 2015)

If ubers stated goal is to destroy cab companies than uber must fill the void


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## Tom Harding (Sep 26, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Do taxis have to give disabled people rides ?


yes, at least in Chicago



TwoFiddyMile said:


> Two Disabled individuals are suing Uber for not being able to get an Uber.
> 
> Although Uber has launched a program for people with disabilities to use the car-hailing service, the program is not available in all the markets in which Uber operates. Two people who use wheelchairs have filed a lawsuit against Uber alleging that Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.
> 
> ...


I got an invitation to attend an Uber training session for handling the handicapped.
I have transported family members that have wheelchairs and it takes a lot of extra time. If the rate is going to be UberX and I have a UberXL vehicle, then no thanks. For me to handle the handicapped as Uber wants, the rate would have to be equal to SUV or Black, not X.
I drive a 2015 Ford Transit Connect XLT and I would have to spend over a $1,000 for a ramp and loose the 3rd row seating. NO THANKS.
I asked about this handicapped driving and this is the response I got:

Thanks for reaching out, Thomas.

We're happy to help. uberWAV is a transportation option for riders with limited mobility. The vehicles in this category all have a ramp or hydraulic lift, a driver who knows how to tie down a wheelchair and is CPR and first-aid certified.

If you want to become an uberWAV partner, please click here for more information.

Please note that uberWAV pricing and service fees currently match that of uberX. To determine the applicable uberX service fee in your market, you can refer to the Service Fee agreements in your driver account.

Please let us know if we can help with anything else.


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

Trebor said:


> The funny thing is, we shouldn't have to worry about an electric wheelchair. The person using the electric wheelchair most likely already knows that 99% of ubers are not going to be made to accommodate them and they should look for other forms of transportation like the city bus, a cab company that has this in place etc. They should already know this and therefore should not be requesting an uber in the first place, unless they literally are (no offense intended) rtarded.


Well. I can understand why someone in a full size wheelchair might be frustrated, but it doesn't make sense to go about it by suing due to the fact tha Uber doesn't have its own fleet of cars. I could see someone who already has a converted van (maybe domeone who works with the disabled and also drives uber), but it's so preventatively expensive for an individual to do without grants that families of the disabled get.


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## Ogbootsy (Sep 12, 2016)

Uber has mini vans but don't know if it wheel chair compatible.... Cost a lot of money to install for a 500 lb electronic wheelchair


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

Ogbootsy said:


> Uber has mini vans but don't know if it wheel chair compatible.... Cost a lot of money to install for a 500 lb electronic wheelchair


Uber _drivers_ have mini vans. Uber has.... Window stickers and an app.


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

Uber will likely settle out of court just to avoid the risk, but it wouldn't surprise me if they fall back on their "we're a technology company, not a transportation company" line of bull to claim they can't force driver's vehicles to be wheelchair accessible, all they can do is deactivate drivers who knowingly violate ADA law.


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## TechBill (Jun 26, 2016)

TedInTampa said:


> Pen and paper. Been there, done that, it worked. Later in life, with the Uber app, when someone deaf rode, I pulled up the address, pointed to it, got a nod, smiled, and drove. Now, deaf/blind would be a challenge, but don't they usually have a fully trained helper themselves?


ADA states that the communication must be effective so pen and paper wouldn't do anyone any good if the Deaf person doesn't have a good English understanding but very fluent in ASL (American Sign Language). ASL is *NOT* speaking English with your hands but its' own distinct language.

If pen and paper is not an effective communication for this Deaf person then they have every right to request for an interpreter and the business have no choice and pay for it unless it a undue burden on the business' finances


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## Gander36 (Apr 6, 2017)

Just curious, what did these wheelchair bound folks do to get around town before Uber? There are people that can't ride as passengers in cars because they get carsick. Does Uber owe them a ride solution as well?

In theory, Uber is just a company that created a product that connects riders to drivers and takes a fee for handling dispatch and money exchange. They were not an operation trying to monopolize municipalities through restriction, fees, and regulation like the taxi companies have. If they were, and that left no other options for the wheelchair bound, then sure they should have a handicap solution.

But Uber started telling drivers who they have to pick up, that they cant discriminate, etc etc. So I believe these two might have a case. 

If they lose, Uber will probably create a new level (Uber Crip), allowing any driver that equips their car to pick up those requests - hopefully for a very high fee. I can't imagine Uber or a city could force drivers to comply across the board.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Gander36 said:


> If they lose, Uber will probably create a new level (Uber Crip), allowing any driver that equips their car to pick up those requests - hopefully for a very high fee. I can't imagine Uber or a city could force drivers to comply across the board.


It's called... Uber Wav

And by law it can't cost the customer any more than X (you can't charge more to serve people with any disability)

However one time i COULD refuse someone cause he couldn't fit into the taxi...


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## sillymako83 (Jan 10, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> Out of curiosity how are the rates? Even with the slow down, I would imagine it would be like luxsuv or ubersuv working less but more per ride. If you are good prearranging rides It can't be that bad as you should be guaranteed a round trip with simple communication and a pax who would actually appreciate the effort if you did that. Probably will need to violate a bunch of stuff with Uber TOS by prearranging rides but again, I am sure the pax will be in debt to you for the most part if you are reliable. You might be able to make a good living just doing 2 round trips a day depending on distance and time of course.
> 
> This sounds absurd to me, and since I respect your opinion, think it might be a typo, but if true could you elaborate? Are we talking wheel chair vans or is there some other kind of certification or modification I don't know about?


NY UberX RATES:


Kodyhead said:


> Out of curiosity how are the rates? Even with the slow down, I would imagine it would be like luxsuv or ubersuv working less but more per ride. If you are good prearranging rides It can't be that bad as you should be guaranteed a round trip with simple communication and a pax who would actually appreciate the effort if you did that. Probably will need to violate a bunch of stuff with Uber TOS by prearranging rides but again, I am sure the pax will be in debt to you for the most part if you are reliable. You might be able to make a good living just doing 2 round trips a day depending on distance and time of course.
> 
> This sounds absurd to me, and since I respect your opinion, think it might be a typo, but if true could you elaborate? Are we talking wheel chair vans or is there some other kind of certification or modification I don't know about?


NY Uber X rates: $1.75 per mile, $0.35 per minute....must be rough


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

sillymako83 said:


> NY UberX RATES:
> 
> NY Uber X rates: $1.75 per mile, $0.35 per minute....must be rough


It actually must be. TLC licensed, TLC self insured, all the $$ permits that entails. Probably costs $30,000 annually to break even.
Then there's rent. NY much? Rents start at around $1300 for a rented ROOM in the hood. People pay $2500 for 500 square foot 2 bedrooms. $5 cup of coffee. You can't handle the truth.


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## brendon292 (Aug 2, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Charging XL rates wouldn't suffice, they have to charge X rates to be in complete compliance with ADA rules. The rules state you can't charge more for people with disabilities.


What happens if people in wheelchairs want UberPOOL?


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## sillymako83 (Jan 10, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> It actually must be. TLC licensed, TLC self insured, all the $$ permits that entails. Probably costs $30,000 annually to break even.
> Then there's rent. NY much? Rents start at around $1300 for a rented ROOM in the hood. People pay $2500 for 500 square foot 2 bedrooms. $5 cup of coffee. You can't handle the truth.


I grew up in NY. Cost of living in NY is not much higher than South Florida. The taxi unions are what keeps Uber at prices being closer to fare in NY. $5 cup of coffee. Idiot


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

sillymako83 said:


> I grew up in NY. Cost of living in NY is not much higher than South Florida. The taxi unions are what keeps Uber at prices being closer to fare in NY. $5 cup of coffee. Idiot


Go **** yourself ( go four asterisk yourself).


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## sillymako83 (Jan 10, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Go **** yourself ( go four asterisk yourself).


I apologize. Didn't realize you were in NC raking in the cheese at $0.75 per mile. Keep drinking the Uber koolaid.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

sillymako83 said:


> I apologize. Didn't realize you were in NC raking in the cheese at $0.75 per mile. Keep drinking the Uber koolaid.


No he's in NC charging 2.50 a mile... In a taxi


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> It actually must be. TLC licensed, TLC self insured, all the $$ permits that entails. Probably costs $30,000 annually to break even.
> Then there's rent. NY much? Rents start at around $1300 for a rented ROOM in the hood. People pay $2500 for 500 square foot 2 bedrooms. $5 cup of coffee. You can't handle the truth.


Yup. Had a driver pick me up one day. He was paying close $2,000/month for project housing in I think was brooklyn.

He came to Houston and now has a 4 bedroom house on mortgage for less than $1,300/month (in the suburbs but still)

On a side note, he said his baby mama didn't want to leave NY.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Safe_Driver_4_U said:


> project this reasoning forward and you get: In your service area, there are 15% Asian population, 10% black, 45% hispanic, 2% electric wheel chair disabled therefore you must document and drive those equal percentages of populations.


Your argument makes no logical sense whatsoever. I said nothing about driving equal percentages. My point is if they WANT to be served they must be.



TedInTampa said:


> Malice and genuine burden.
> 
> A non-white takes exactly the same space as a white. A woman the exact same seat as a man. Not serving someone because of skin color or sex is racism and sexism. Not changing the structure of my vehicle to accommodate someone I have yet to meet is not discrimination. To accommodate my wife's powered chair, my church put a piece of baseboard outside the door to act as a ramp for the 3/4" step. I'm sure it was left over from previous work...$0, 10 minutes.
> 
> ...


Actually some races tend to be larger than others. Can I refuse Samoans and only take say Vietnamese because the Vietnamese folks tend to be smaller? Or maybe I'll only transport women?

We have laws about serving the disabled without charging more because otherwise they have an even more difficult time doing the things mist people take for granted.

Yes, it would be a burden on an uber driver to have to provide an expensive van at uberx rates, but it is NOT a burden to expect uber to subsidize that van for the driver with higher rates, NOT passed on to the customer.

Again, it's all about what sort of company it is. And it's interesting that in the Texas bill it is mostly being accepted as a technology company and YET there's a $20,000 fee to not have to deal with disabled pax.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Yeah I have a strange life. I'm dirt poor, but when I get home I have a custom built 5 bedroom house and a family that loves me.
I could have done far worse 

I was right about a premium cup of coffee in Manhattan, median price $5.
Crappy deli coffee $2. Good luck drinking that rotgut.
http://nypost.com/2014/03/10/would-you-pay-10-for-this-cup-of-coffee/


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## sillymako83 (Jan 10, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Yeah I have a strange life. I'm dirt poor, but when I get home I have a custom built 5 bedroom house and a family that loves me.
> I could have done far worse
> 
> I was right about a premium cup of coffee in Manhattan, median price $5.
> ...


Only idiots seek "premium" coffee.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Uber is not, and has never been, in the business of providing rides. Taxis do that.

Instead, Uber is in the business of connecting riders with rides. Think of them as brokers. That's why various Taxi commissions have no say in how the business operates. 

All Uber need do is .... Nothing. If they wanted, they could create "UberH". Mind you, that would not guarantee there would be drivers available.

IMO this suit is a set-up. Just another attempt by the Taxi folks to shut down any competition.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

sillymako83 said:


> Only idiots seek "premium" coffee.


Lol.
The American Standard of a cup of takeout coffee these days ranges from Dunkin Doughnuts to Starbucks.
But keep drinking that rotgut deli coffee, you don't have to admit I was right 

I must be a real idiot, I brew my own arabica at home.


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## BillC (Mar 5, 2017)

Trebor said:


> On a side note, he said his baby mama didn't want to leave NY.


Sounds like he dodged a bullet on that one. Winner winner chicken dinner.


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## 123dragon (Sep 14, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Yeah I have a strange life. I'm dirt poor, but when I get home I have a custom built 5 bedroom house and a family that loves me.
> I could have done far worse
> 
> I was right about a premium cup of coffee in Manhattan, median price $5.
> ...


It even says in your article:


> Now, $5 is the new high-priced standard: A mocha latte at Williamsburg's Marlow & Sons costs $5.25, a large latte at Manhattan's Stumptown is five bucks and lattes at Fort Greene's Smooch will also cost you a Lincoln.


I lived in NYC on 74th between 2nd and 3rd avenue, the coffee at delis or little bodegas was superior to the crap that dunkin donut and starbucks had if you wanted a coffee. They didn't have lattes or any of that fufu garbage. Coffee was 1-2 dollars and really used as a way to get you to stop by to grab other convenience items. You can read about the love affair of bodega coffee here:

http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/...a-coffee-flavor-brewed-right-in-your-kitchen/


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> Uber is not, and has never been, in the business of providing rides. Taxis do that.
> 
> Instead, Uber is in the business of connecting riders with rides. Think of them as brokers. That's why various Taxi commissions have no say in how the business operates.
> 
> ...


Then Uber needs to do a better job of educating pax that drivers are not driving taxis. Uber riders think Uber cars ARE taxis - for much cheaper.


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## NoStopping (Jan 25, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Two Disabled individuals are suing Uber for not being able to get an Uber.
> 
> Although Uber has launched a program for people with disabilities to use the car-hailing service, the program is not available in all the markets in which Uber operates. Two people who use wheelchairs have filed a lawsuit against Uber alleging that Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.
> 
> ...


Uber has that feature in SF, but if you open the uber app and look for WAV, you wont see any ants. Even if they added the feature, they would probably not get a ride.


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## anteetr (Jan 24, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> they are going to have to subsidize the XL people to install ramps in their cars for them


The only way I'm doing that is if they literally give me a brand new WAV for free.


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> Should someone insist on sitting in their chair .... Well, I'm willing to invest in a tow rope.


That's hilarious to imagine!


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Do taxis have to give disabled people rides ?


I drove a cab for years, and whenever i got a wheelchair, I helped the person get into the cab, and folded up the chair and put it in the trunk. I have done this with my vehicle. I'm not seeing a problem. Do they mean those vans with lifts? dont know about that, though.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> I drove a cab for years, and whenever i got a wheelchair, I helped the person get into the cab, and folded up the chair and put it in the trunk. I have done this with my vehicle. I'm not seeing a problem. Do they mean those vans with lifts? dont know about that, though.


Yes we mean the vans with lifts...

That's what this has been about LOL.d


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## RedoBeach (Feb 27, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> The debate seems to hinge on whether or not Uber is a "public accommodation."
> 
> Expecting EVERY transport method to accommodate wheelchairs is as silly as expecting EVERY pizza place to accommodate the lactose intolerant..
> 
> ...


And she's back still towing the Uber "lines." Getty Images tell a lot about a soul..


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber wants to get away with paying a driver x rates to run a handicap van.
> UNSUSTAINABLE !!!
> The equipment is more expensive.
> Loading and unloading is extremely time consuming !
> ...


My town has "HandiRide" where for a set fee per month, disabled people and their caretakers can ride anywhere. Why in the world do they decide to use Uber? I had a passenger, a very tall man, summon me and try to put his very large wheel chair in my trunk. It wouldn't fit, so we had to unload his mother and her O2 tank and he was miffed. I said he'd need to order an XL and he said he knew, just sometimes UberX cars are big enough to accommodate the chair and he would take his chances.

FACT: The average driver makes little to no profit in the first place and there's a reason taxis charge/d as much as they did/do: the driver deserves to make a profit for providing a service. Uber is trying to become a transportation monopoly on the backs of naive drivers who have no idea how much it costs, not only in terms of their time, but the wear-and-tear depreciation on their cars. Before those of you who chime in to say "it's going to happen anyway" I say, I used to drive 4,000 miles a year, now I drive 20,000. My car will crap out on me 5x faster. Add to that I've read where car warranties won't be honored for cars used for ride-sharing, and you know this type of driving is a killer for our vehicles.



Trebor said:


> I guarantee you these two individuals WILL NOT take the money they get from a lawsuit/settlement and re invest that money to start their own transportation service that caters to handicap individuals/much less get some wheels for themselves if they are somehow able to drive with some kind of modification.
> 
> I would gladly buy a handicap van if I were to get paid more per mile than your regular uberx ride. Of course, this would be unfair to the customer. But these customers should be well aware how much more a wheelchair accessible van is, thus why they can not afford it themselves. (unless of course they are blind or something)
> 
> ...


No, they don't fit in most sedans. The guy who tried with me knew he should be requesting an XL, but was hoping by the luck of the draw for a sedan that WOULD fit his oversized wheelchair. Unfair to me, and quite possibly the next driver he summoned hoping to find the right car. Uber needs to require that they order an XL, and that goes for all train/airport runs with lots of luggage.


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## MarshallMathers (May 9, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Two Disabled individuals are suing Uber for not being able to get an Uber.
> 
> Although Uber has launched a program for people with disabilities to use the car-hailing service, the program is not available in all the markets in which Uber operates. Two people who use wheelchairs have filed a lawsuit against Uber alleging that Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.
> 
> ...


How are they suing in Mississippi based on a California law??

I can't speak to Jackson Mississippi but they do have a disabilities option. (Picture above) something tells me this will be an open and shut case.


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## Tippy711 (Apr 14, 2017)

Get a trained driver? The only training I got was a two minute YouTube video two years ago. How is Uber going to train sub contractors?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

MarshallMathers said:


> View attachment 120240
> 
> How are they suing in Mississippi based on a California law??
> 
> I can't speak to Jackson Mississippi but they do have a disabilities option. (Picture above) something tells me this will be an open and shut case.


ADA is a federal law. Uber will likely settle to avoid this being an open and shut case for the plaintiff.


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## MarshallMathers (May 9, 2017)

Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.



Demon said:


> ADA is a federal law. Uber will likely settle to avoid this being an open and shut case for the plaintiff.


I am aware ADA is federal. Look above they are suing based on California law as well. That's what I was wondering.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

MarshallMathers said:


> Uber has violated Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the California Disabled Persons Act and California's unfair competition law.
> 
> I am aware ADA is federal. Look above they are suing based on California law as well. That's what I was wondering.


Uber is based in California.


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## RedoBeach (Feb 27, 2016)

[


Snowtop said:


> This is no coincidence that the suit was filed in Mississippi. Lawyers have known for years that civil suits in Mississippi have a higher percentage of wins for the plaintiff and much bigger rewards. This is the place the awarded millions to a lady because she spilled hot coffee from McDonalds on her lap.
> I will bet my house that the people named as plaintiffs did not seek out these lawyers because the felt some sort of injustice. The lawyers found them and offered a decent payday for a couple of depositions and there name on a suit. This just may be the tip of the iceberg. I can easily see this grown into a class action suit for involving the entire country


Ambulance chasing for clients is against most Bar Attorney's licensing standards. If the judge, or anyone else for that matter discovered that the Plaintiff's council hunted the Plaintiff's down, seeking a case, an investigation would pursue and the attorney likely disbarred. The case would also be dismissed, with prejudice. Highly doubtful the attorney did that.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

melusine3 said:


> My town has "HandiRide" where for a set fee per month, disabled people and their caretakers can ride anywhere. Why in the world do they decide to use Uber? I had a passenger, a very tall man, summon me and try to put his very large wheel chair in my trunk. It wouldn't fit, so we had to unload his mother and her O2 tank and he was miffed. I said he'd need to order an XL and he said he knew, just sometimes UberX cars are big enough to accommodate the chair and he would take his chances.
> 
> FACT: The average driver makes little to no profit in the first place and there's a reason taxis charge/d as much as they did/do: the driver deserves to make a profit for providing a service. Uber is trying to become a transportation monopoly on the backs of naive drivers who have no idea how much it costs, not only in terms of their time, but the wear-and-tear depreciation on their cars. Before those of you who chime in to say "it's going to happen anyway" I say, I used to drive 4,000 miles a year, now I drive 20,000. My car will crap out on me 5x faster. Add to that I've read where car warranties won't be honored for cars used for ride-sharing, and you know this type of driving is a killer for our vehicles.
> 
> No, they don't fit in most sedans. The guy who tried with me knew he should be requesting an XL, but was hoping by the luck of the draw for a sedan that WOULD fit his oversized wheelchair. Unfair to me, and quite possibly the next driver he summoned hoping to find the right car. Uber needs to require that they order an XL, and that goes for all train/airport runs with lots of luggage.


The thing about taxi's that you fail to realize is that most of them are scraping by even with rates 3x higher in most cities than Uber. Why? Most cab companies have their cabbies paying anywhere from $300-$800/week and possibly more in place like NYC. The taxi's I see are parked outside in low income neighborhoods.


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## Snowtop (Nov 11, 2014)

RedoBeach said:


> [
> 
> Ambulance chasing for clients is against most Bar Attorney's licensing standards. If the judge, or anyone else for that matter discovered that the Plaintiff's council hunted the Plaintiff's down, seeking a case, an investigation would pursue and the attorney likely disbarred. The case would also be dismissed, with prejudice. Highly doubtful the attorney did that.


That is exactly how most class actions get started. I see advertisments on TV all the time telling people that if they used this product or that service call this lawyer.

In Neverland that is true....in the real world...thousands of ambulance chasers out there looking for the next big payoff.


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## JaySonic (Aug 25, 2016)

I'm sick to death of unreasonable demands from disabled people. Why should everyone have to make accommodations for a very small percentage of society? In my city they have spend billions on making all train stations accessible, the bus fleets are all disabled friendly, shopping malls are ramp-in. 

And now they demand Uber make provisions. They can go to hell, I've had enough of supporting the interest of minorities. 

Even at my local library, there are four disabled car spaces that are NEVER OCCUPIED. They've had it too good for too long. We give them public transport, they cry for car spaces. We give them car spaces, they cry for Uber. Once Uber takes care of their petty desires, they'll probably petition the government for a charted helicopter service. This madness has to end NOW


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## Tommy Vercetti (Aug 28, 2016)

So what I'm supposed to install a ramp on my sedan? Does this affect uberX drivers?


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## RedoBeach (Feb 27, 2016)

Tommy Vercetti said:


> So what I'm supposed to install a ramp on my sedan? Does this affect uberX drivers?


No, Uber pays you as an Independent Contractor until you file otherwise.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

JaySonic said:


> I'm sick to death of unreasonable demands from disabled people. Why should everyone have to make accommodations for a very small percentage of society? In my city they have spend billions on making all train stations accessible, the bus fleets are all disabled friendly, shopping malls are ramp-in.
> 
> And now they demand Uber make provisions. They can go to hell, I've had enough of supporting the interest of minorities.
> 
> Even at my local library, there are four disabled car spaces that are NEVER OCCUPIED. They've had it too good for too long. We give them public transport, they cry for car spaces. We give them car spaces, they cry for Uber. Once Uber takes care of their petty desires, they'll probably petition the government for a charted helicopter service. This madness has to end NOW


If the taxi companies can comply with these demands there's no reason uber can't figure something out.

The truth is that if uber just leased out Vans with ramps and subsidized them in order to provide for transporting these people everything will balance out. If you had an opportunity to drive an uber WAV get paid the same amount, and be forced to take one of these trips from time to time, you might consider doing it.

The cab company i drive for rents out the $45,000 Vans with a wheelchair lift (that's how much they really cost) for LESS than the rent out the Camry Hybrids that are a good $15,000 less and then some and runs both for the same number of total miles. (they also both cost the customers the same amount and can carry the same number of passengers).

It's a pain, it's a burdon, it sucks for the people who are footing the bill for these services,

But without it, these people have no on demand way to get around. It's one of the costs of ripping people off and charging them an arm and a leg to get around so you can turn a profit...

OH WAIT... uber doesn't charge enough...


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## Tommy Vercetti (Aug 28, 2016)

RedoBeach said:


> No, Uber pays you as an Independent Contractor until you file otherwise.


I see, so I'm under no obligation then to accept the trip when I arrive because I cannot accommodate a wheelchair? Why can't I apply this rule of being an independent contractor to the law of not accepting seeing eye dogs?

Thanks for the response, hopefully you can sum up my above questions.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Tommy Vercetti said:


> I see, so I'm under no obligation then to accept the trip when I arrive because I cannot accommodate a wheelchair? Why can't I apply this rule of being an independent contractor to the law of not accepting seeing eye dogs?
> 
> Thanks for the response, hopefully you can sum up my above questions.


If it can't fit, you are not denying the service based on the disability. You are denying the service based on physics involving the impossibility of fitting a large object in a smaller object.

Denying the service based on them having a service animal is completely different.


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## Guapcollecta (Apr 11, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Do taxis have to give disabled people rides ?


Yes


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Uber not being a transportation provider is a ridiculous statement.
> 
> An ADA case may set the precedent for them being a transportation company.


That's an interesting thought. Uber has always maintained they are a technology company, not a transportation company. Their app is usable by anybody. Will they shift this responsibility to owner/drivers? There is no way drivers can afford to comply.



uberdriverfornow said:


> Wrong. They have yet to be found as not being a transportation provider. In fact, in almost every court and legal case the drivers have been found to be employees, which means they are a transportation provider.


You are mistaken. No court has declared Uber "partners" are employees


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

Rat said:


> That's an interesting thought. Uber has always maintained they are a technology company, not a transportation company. Their app is usable by anybody. Will they shift this responsibility to owner/drivers? There is no way drivers can afford to comply.
> 
> You are mistaken. No court has declared Uber "partners" are employees


Only UK.
In the US there have been 2 cases were individual drivers won in CA and FL. In Florida it was reverted by the labor department, but these 2 cases don't affect the fact that they still claim that we are independent contractors, we need a class action law suit to do that and if they settle then it doesn't change anything. Currently in California there is a law suit in behalf of the labor board but it takes time and if Uber does not win, they still appeal to get even more time.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Too Many Miles said:


> Only UK.
> In the US there have been 2 cases were individual drivers won in CA and FL. In Florida it was reverted by the labor department, but these 2 cases don't affect the fact that they still claim that we are independent contractors, we need a class action law suit to do that and if they settle then it doesn't change anything. Currently in California there is a law suit in behalf of the labor board but it takes time and if Uber does not win, they still appeal to get even more time.


Unemployment claims don't count


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

Rat said:


> Unemployment claims don't count


Exactly, we still have to prove that we are employees and it is a lengthy process, specially with the amount of money Uber invests for litigation.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Too Many Miles said:


> Exactly, we still have to prove that we are employees and it is a lengthy process, specially with the amount of money Uber invests for litigation.


With their up front pricing model, Uber is no longer taking a set commission. Their claim of merely being a go between is less believable


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Trebor said:


> That just makes too much sense. Not only would they be able to avoid lawsuits like the one featured above, (they may even get some dropped on the basis they fixed their mistake, if these plaintiffs truly cared about the change, and not the money) but it would bring some much needed good p.r. to uber and wouldn't cost them a dime out of pocket.


Uber will more likely hand you a 3 legged kitten and exclaim" UBER CARES FOR THE HANDICAPPED"!

Then ship the kitten back to the pound to be gassed 3 hours later.



Karen Stein said:


> The debate seems to hinge on whether or not Uber is a "public accommodation."
> 
> Expecting EVERY transport method to accommodate wheelchairs is as silly as expecting EVERY pizza place to accommodate the lactose intolerant..
> 
> ...


Leave the cheese off .
Thats ez.
Glutten intolerant is more of a hassle.

Uber green light hubs must also HAVE HANDICAP PARKING !

Have handicap accessability.

Have handicap restrooms.
Toilet must be elevated.
Bars mounted firmly on wall.
All hot water lines and drains must be insulated to prevent leg burns under sinks.

If uber needs a remodeling contractor for the restrooms i may be available.
I also do handicap parking space stenciling and lane marking.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> I have looked into it from every angle.
> Its not economically possible with Uber rates !
> I would like to offer it.
> I am not a " part timer", so I would be available for 12 hour blocks of the day !
> ...


Its a losing proposition doing it for uber at these rates...They must be crazy!


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## lpelaez (May 27, 2017)

Ok, Let's be real!....How Uber can be sued if they don't own any vehicles! Good luck with that!

If a disable person can't use Uber they have the right to call another service to suit their needs!.

Is like me trying to make a lawsuit to the clothing store Hollister because they don;t have my size 42 pants!. A least I have an option and go to Old Navy and get my size.

The same thing a person with disabilities can do by calling one of those transportation companies with wheelchair ramps.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Trebor said:


> The thing about taxi's that you fail to realize is that most of them are scraping by even with rates 3x higher in most cities than Uber. Why? Most cab companies have their cabbies paying anywhere from $300-$800/week and possibly more in place like NYC. The taxi's I see are parked outside in low income neighborhoods.


I do my best to explain this to riders who wax rhapsodic about the benefits of Uber vs Taxis. I tell them that taxis fares are configured for the driver to actually make a living and then explain how Uber drivers aren't making any profit at all. Unless, of course, they turn to only surges (which are actually quite rare now) and driving puking drunks at 2 a.m. I'm sure they don't really "get it" since they'd rather live in denial and exploit the Uber driver further. I also explain that once Uber is a monopoly and (maybe) driverless, they will jack up their rates to current taxi rates and... well, so be it.



Too Many Miles said:


> Only UK.
> In the US there have been 2 cases were individual drivers won in CA and FL. In Florida it was reverted by the labor department, but these 2 cases don't affect the fact that they still claim that we are independent contractors, we need a class action law suit to do that and if they settle then it doesn't change anything. Currently in California there is a law suit in behalf of the labor board but it takes time and if Uber does not win, they still appeal to get even more time.


If Uber presents itself only as an app charging a % fee, why can they push the amount of money they extract back onto us as if it was our income for tax purposes? Since they're taking the fee all along, shouldn't that be considered their income? Plus the "booking fee" - not sure if they're attributing that to us as well...


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Rat said:


> With their up front pricing model, Uber is no longer taking a set commission. Their claim of merely being a go between is less believable


A middleman or go between or facilitator can charge customers at a different rate then they pay their contractors. This changes nothing. In fact the very nature of a middle man is that they upchargd for their services as a facilitator. Being a facilitator does not cap what one can upcharge for their services nor would any increase in their billings change the fact that they are merely facilitators.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> A middleman or go between or facilitator can charge customers at a different rate then they pay their contractors. This changes nothing. In fact the very nature of a middle man is that they upchargd for their services as a facilitator. Being a facilitator does not cap what one can upcharge for their services nor would any increase in their billings change the fact that they are merely facilitators.


There is a bit of confusion with Uber's roll here. What Uber is supposed to do, according to their own classification, is pretty much what the travel booking services do, but in reality they have twisted everything around.
For starters, we are NOT independent contractors and I am not referring to how much control Uber actually applies on the drivers. When you are an independent contractor, you are paid by the company or person that "hires" you, you may or may not render your services directly to them. In this case we render a service to the riders and it is a service that Uber sells to them. The problem with that is that Uber claims that they are not a transportation company, etc. and therefore they don't sell transportation. The drivers get paid directly by the riders, proof of that is the contract with Uber and the 1099-K. Uber provides a service to the riders by "connecting" them with drivers a and a services to us by connecting and payment processing.
So Uber has managed to set things up in a way that does not make sense and so far they are getting away with it. By doing this, they control the transportation market, preventing the drivers from engaging in free market competition. It really is a scam.
So, is Uber really a Middleman?
Yes, they can charge whatever they want to the rides, the question is how are they justifying the extra charges? If Uber accepts that they are a transportation company, then they can charge whatever they want without having any discussion with the drivers.
I think that from the point where they started keeping the difference from the fare (they were collecting money for transportation services) they were basically leaning more to show that they really are a transportation company and now that they are giving the drivers a set pay for driving, which makes it even more obvious.
The changes in the TOC are actually a big change in how the business model should work.
Uber knew exactly the consequences of keeping the difference of the fare and they could have changed the TOC then, but they don't how to solve this problem. The change in the TOC is a temporary change because of the law suit, it will change again.



Rat said:


> Unemployment claims don't count


The unemployment claims are what led to the law suits.
when the drivers tried to get unemployment benefits they were denied, then they went after Uber and the judges determined that they wee employees, therefore Uber should have pad for unemployment


----------



## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

lpelaez said:


> Ok, Let's be real!....How Uber can be sued if they don't own any vehicles! Good luck with that!
> 
> If a disable person can't use Uber they have the right to call another service to suit their needs!.
> 
> .


So why can't a person with a service dog do the same?


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

lpelaez said:


> The same thing a person with disabilities can do by calling one of those transportation companies with wheelchair ramps.


Because one of the reasons uber can operate so much cheaper than the cab companies is that they ignore the local rules on having X% of their fleet being wheelchair accessble.

the ADA would rather have a good company raise it's rates for everyone to make them comply with rules than to not comply.

At the end of the day, uber is probobly going to be forced to roll out Uberwav nation wide... it's only a matter of time.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> they are going to have to subsidize the XL people to install ramps in their cars for them


Why? Cabs don't get a subsidy for their "wheelie" vans. It's part of the cost of business.



Kodyhead said:


> Out of curiosity how are the rates? Even with the slow down, I would imagine it would be like luxsuv or ubersuv working less but more per ride. If you are good prearranging rides It can't be that bad as you should be guaranteed a round trip with simple communication and a pax who would actually appreciate the effort if you did that. Probably will need to violate a bunch of stuff with Uber TOS by prearranging rides but again, I am sure the pax will be in debt to you for the most part if you are reliable. You might be able to make a good living just doing 2 round trips a day depending on distance and time of course.
> 
> This sounds absurd to me, and since I respect your opinion, think it might be a typo, but if true could you elaborate? Are we talking wheel chair vans or is there some other kind of certification or modification I don't know about?


Portland (Oregon) required 20% of a cab fleet to be wheelchair accessible.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> YET EVEN WITH LAWS,ALL OF THE SNOWFLAKES WANT TO BE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULES !


Seems to me it's the knuckle-draggers who need to be taught right and wrong. If they could just behave with compassion, these rules wouldn't be needed. The RULES say you must service these people. The knuckle-dragger seem to not grasp this simple concept.  See how those stereotype insults work? ;-)



Trebor said:


> That just makes too much sense. Not only would they be able to avoid lawsuits like the one featured above, (they may even get some dropped on the basis they fixed their mistake, if these plaintiffs truly cared about the change, and not the money) but it would bring some much needed good p.r. to uber and wouldn't cost them a dime out of pocket.


Cabs don't charge more. Why should Uber? Af


Too Many Miles said:


> This is an interesting issue considering that Uber is not a transportation company and that they don't provide any transportation services.
> I am not trying to defend Uber, I hate Uber.
> So, if there are no providers, is it really Uber's responsibility?


Uber IS a transportation company. Other than a paint job, there's very little difference between Uber and most cab companies.

The old saying, "A rose by any other name...." comes to mind.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

phillipzx3 said:


> Why? Cabs don't get a subsidy for their "wheelie" vans. It's part of the cost of business.
> 
> Portland (Oregon) required 20% of a cab fleet to be wheelchair accessible.


Umm yes they can.

There's tax breaks,

Orlandos last 4 cap increases on # of permits was conditional on increasing the number of Wavs in your fleet proportional to the number of additional wavs added.

I.e. Your companies cap on vehicles is 10. And fly have 1 wav. If you add one wave we will increase your cap to 11.

There's also ADA sponsored grants as well. And probobly a direct subsidy or 2.

Wav permits are also cheaper in Orlando then non wav permits, another subsidy.

Took me 5 minutes to find one

http://wamu.org/story/15/07/29/dc_lines_up_big_subsidies_to_expand_wheelchair_accessible_taxi_fleet/

It's from a several years ago but proves my point.

$40,000 wavs being sold to companies for 12,500


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

phillipzx3 said:


> Why? Cabs don't get a subsidy for their "wheelie" vans. It's part of the cost of business.
> 
> Portland (Oregon) required 20% of a cab fleet to be wheelchair accessible.


Because


phillipzx3 said:


> Seems to me it's the knuckle-draggers who need to be taught right and wrong. If they could just behave with compassion, these rules wouldn't be needed. The RULES say you must service these people. The knuckle-dragger seem to not grasp this simple concept.  See how those stereotype insults work? ;-)
> 
> Cabs don't charge more. Why should Uber? Af
> 
> ...


I agree with you, Uber is a transportation company and their app is simply a digital dispatcher, but they still manage to stay away from being categorized as a transportation company. They have a lot of money for lobbying and we elect corrupted polititians.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> The debate seems to hinge on whether or not Uber is a "public accommodation."
> 
> Expecting EVERY transport method to accommodate wheelchairs is as silly as expecting EVERY pizza place to accommodate the lactose intolerant..
> 
> ...


I had a wheel chair client yesterday and it got me to wondering: we are offering to share a ride with someone, does this mean I have to become their personal attendant and be the one to fold up the wheel chair (which not all fit in the back of my trunk); nor should I have to take the thing apart. If they want to share my ride, then let them come with an attendant who will do the wheel chair dismantling and re-mantling while being careful to not scratch my dang bumper! OR... how about you use the handy government operated "Handy Ride" that is designed to accommodate them? I fail to see how my sharing a ride suddenly turns me into an assistant person.


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## Tom Harding (Sep 26, 2016)

melusine3 said:


> I had a wheel chair client yesterday and it got me to wondering: we are offering to share a ride with someone, does this mean I have to become their personal attendant and be the one to fold up the wheel chair (which not all fit in the back of my trunk); nor should I have to take the thing apart. If they want to share my ride, then let them come with an attendant who will do the wheel chair dismantling and re-mantling while being careful to not scratch my dang bumper! OR... how about you use the handy government operated "Handy Ride" that is designed to accommodate them? I fail to see how my sharing a ride suddenly turns me into an assistant person.


I drive a Ford Transit Connect XLT wagon wher I can configure the rear seats for people or hauling stuff. I inquired about being a WAV vehicle for Uber and was told that
1. I needed training about handling handicapped persons and emergency medical techniques
2. I had to have a wheel chair ramp installed
3. Payment was the same as Uber X
4. I would loose my UberXL vehicle type
There is absolutely no incentive to be a WAV vehicle. The cost of the ramp was not covered by Uber or any other party. Chicago taxis get reimbursed for the ramp from a fund, but Uber does not qualify for that fund. So until there is at least XL rates and the modifications are paid for by Uber, they can take their WAV program and shove it!!


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Tom Harding said:


> I drive a Ford Transit Connect XLT wagon wher I can configure the rear seats for people or hauling stuff. I inquired about being a WAV vehicle for Uber and was told that
> 1. I needed training about handling handicapped persons and emergency medical techniques
> 2. I had to have a wheel chair ramp installed
> 3. Payment was the same as Uber X
> ...


Exactly,

But losing XL isn't automatic, you would lose XL by losing some passenger capacity (which is inevitable)

The training is a huge deal, but it's honestly just how to safely load and secure a person who can't transfer out of a wheelchair, and CPR/basic first aid.


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## Tom Harding (Sep 26, 2016)

I have two rear (3rd row seats) I would loose them. Right now XL accounts for about 10% of trips and 25% of income. That is a loss that I don't want to afford. Unless the earnings were at least equal to or more than XL there is no financial reason to become a WAV vehicle.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

melusine3 said:


> I had a wheel chair client yesterday and it got me to wondering: we are offering to share a ride with someone, does this mean I have to become their personal attendant and be the one to fold up the wheel chair (which not all fit in the back of my trunk); nor should I have to take the thing apart. If they want to share my ride, then let them come with an attendant who will do the wheel chair dismantling and re-mantling while being careful to not scratch my dang bumper! OR... how about you use the handy government operated "Handy Ride" that is designed to accommodate them? I fail to see how my sharing a ride suddenly turns me into an assistant person.


in a word.. Yup..

Taxis have been dealing with that for ages.


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## NoDay (Jul 25, 2017)

Part Time drive in smaller market - I've run into the need for a power chair once - it died. Customer ordered XL, me and another guy lifted into the back of van boom issue solved. 
Most of the pax who needs specialty transport, already know their options. Some even get grants or other aid to get their own vehicle free or discounted. 

If I ran into more pax with scooters/electric chairs, I would consider adding a rack to my hitch for < $75.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

NoDay said:


> Part Time drive in smaller market - I've run into the need for a power chair once - it died. Customer ordered XL, me and another guy lifted into the back of van boom issue solved.
> Most of the pax who needs specialty transport, already know their options. Some even get grants or other aid to get their own vehicle free or discounted.
> 
> If I ran into more pax with scooters/electric chairs, I would consider adding a rack to my hitch for < $75.


That's only part of it...

There's some people who can't transfer out of wheelchairs and they don't even both calling uber because they know that uber can't take them.

Ala Steve Hawkins...

At the end of the day this sort of thing is going to be an unfix able thorn in uber's side, ONLY contracting with local professional companies will fix it.

You can't depend on brute forcing a power chair into the back of a van. Heck i've done it as well,

But there's times where the only way to do it is to drop a wheelchair ramp push them into the car and tie them down still in the chair... something i garuntee that an external scooter carrier isn't good enough for.

While your getting closer and closer to being able to handle anyone, your still not 100%


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Got t a ping a month ago to a guy with a prosthetic leg in a wheelchair.
He was non ambulatory. Also drunk.
He could not make it into my minivan. He asked me to lift him from under his arms. I said sorry, bad back.

The only way I could deal with this is to report him as no-show.
I called dispatch and told them the situation, they had their head up their ass due to the fact it was weekend dayshift and there's literally no one in charge on weekends.

What he needed was a lift or a ramp with tiedowns. 
Not me.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Got t a ping a month ago to a guy with a prosthetic leg in a wheelchair.
> He was non ambulatory. Also drunk.
> He could not make it into my minivan. He asked me to lift him from under his arms. I said sorry, bad back.
> 
> ...


didn't realize i was in Charlotte last week 

Must have been crazy drunk..

I've had a few of those,
Being on a prosthetic leg myself i understand how the guy feels... however if you can't lift yourself out of your wheelchair you have no right to be calling a standard taxi... There's too high of a chance of getting a taxi driver who is too old and or too much of an ($&&Rhole like we are to be lifting you out of a wheelchair.

Not sure how the para transit services work in Charlotte but here in Orlando if you can't get out of a wheelchair without assistance you need to just ask for a wheelchair taxi when you call in.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> That's only part of it...
> 
> There's some people who can't transfer out of wheelchairs and they don't even both calling uber because they know that uber can't take them.
> 
> ...


There is no way Uber will be able to pay what the companies know they will legitimately need in order to do this. Uber's business model is a Ponzi scheme that can't incorporate this.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

melusine3 said:


> There is no way Uber will be able to pay what the companies know they will legitimately need in order to do this. Uber's business model is a Ponzi scheme that can't incorporate this.


Then it may be the ADA that saves the taxi industry...And kills uber...


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