# Tips no longer showing.



## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

I thought maybe it was just this order. But nope. No offer tonight showed anything but bottom line before I accepted.

(I saw Red Lobster and accepted. A $4.75 delivery. 1/4 of what most RL deliveries are.)










Yeah, I'll get right on that.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

It's probably code for 'no tip'.


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## EM1 (Apr 28, 2019)

As a part-time Uber driver, I often see tips coming in a few days or up to a week after the trip. I believe they are holding tips in a short-term holding account (earning interest) then disbursing the funds later. This just started happening a few months ago. Uber is very, very desperate. Holding thousands and thousands of dollars in tips in short-term interest bearing accounts shows how sad and desperate Uber is. And yes I've had tips come in 10 days after the trip. Ridiculous.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

Uberdriver2710 said:


> It's probably code for 'no tip'.


That's what I thought, too. But I checked the next order and it was the same.

Except in that case it was a TB order with a $7.00 tip.

What's the world coming to when a TB delivery pays 3X what a Red Lobster Delivery does.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

dlearl476 said:


> That's what I thought, too. But I checked the next order and it was the same.
> 
> Except in that case it was a TB order with a $7.00 tip.
> 
> What's the world coming to when a TB delivery pays 3X what a Red Lobster Delivery does.


Which restaurant is 'TB'?


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## Ubering4Beer (Mar 15, 2018)

Uberdriver2710 said:


> Which restaurant is 'TB'?


Taco Bell


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

This is GH’s way of not letting drivers cherry pick for the good paying food orders. Next, they’ll follow UE and hide the destination until you have the food.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

Invisible said:


> Next, they'll follow UE and hide the destination until you have the food.


Which further reduces our 'private contractor' status.


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## uberboy1212 (Jan 10, 2017)

I accepted GH orders yesterday and it showed tip hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come. Thats one of the few benefits of driving for GH


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

Invisible said:


> This is GH's way of not letting drivers cherry pick for the good paying food orders. Next, they'll follow UE and hide the destination until you have the food.


The total payout still appears on the accept/decline page. It's just the tip/delivery instructions aren't on the deliver page once you accept.

I guess "Gate Code is XXXX, Thurd floor, take the stairs the elevator is broken. Text me when you arrive so you don't wake the baby" is just as detrimental to acceptance as "Tip: $0.00" is. LOL



uberboy1212 said:


> I accepted GH orders yesterday and it showed tip hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come. Thats one of the few benefits of driving for GH


I'm guessing this happened with the app update which happened (IIRC) Thursday?



uberboy1212 said:


> I accepted GH orders yesterday and it showed tip hopefully this isn't a sign of things to come. Thats one of the few benefits of driving for GH


Yes. I'm sure GH has done social engineering studies that show "Mushroom Drivers" are most conducive to customer satisfaction so they're adopting UE S&P.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

dlearl476 said:


> The total payout still appears on the accept/decline page. It's just the tip/delivery instructions aren't on the deliver page once you accept.


That's good.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

Invisible said:


> That's good.


It looks like GH is adopting UE S&P

https://uberpeople.net/threads/grubhub-for-drivers-we’re-improving-your-grubhub-pay.334134/


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

dlearl476 said:


> It looks like GH is adopting UE S&P
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/grubhub-for-drivers-we’re-improving-your-grubhub-pay.334134/


I don't trust any of these apps. Hopefully GH doesn't follow DD with using your tips as base pay. I think the good ole days of making good money consistently with these apps are done.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

Invisible said:


> I don't trust any of these apps. Hopefully GH doesn't follow DD with using your tips as base pay. I think the good ole days of making good money consistently with these apps are done.


Yeah, I hope a new service starts up soon.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

Uberdriver2710 said:


> Yeah, I hope a new service starts up soon.


I've given up on the gig economy. I'm looking for a normal PT gig.



Invisible said:


> I don't trust any of these apps. Hopefully GH doesn't follow DD with using your tips as base pay. I think the good ole days of making good money consistently with these apps are done.


The wording of the email seems to make clear they're not going to do that. But who knows what tomorrow will bring.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

dlearl476 said:


> I've given up on the gig economy. I'm looking for a normal PT gig.


I hope it works out for you. I could never go back to working for a boss. I'm too old for that.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

Uberdriver2710 said:


> I hope it works out for you. I could never go back to working for a boss. I'm too old for that.


My brother has a friend who owns a very progressive company that makes drill bits for the oil companies.

I don't really need a job, or the money. I really need an excuse to turn off the TV and get off the couch. This job interests me because of their liberal policy of using their multi-million dollar CNC facility for personal projects.

Shame that they're not hiring right now because the permafrost is melting and the companies can't drive their rigs on it without getting stuck.

Thanks, Climate Change.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Invisible said:


> Hopefully GH doesn't follow DD with using your tips as base pay.


They already do. They are just less transparent about it.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> They already do. They are just less transparent about it.


How so?

I still get $3.50 + Crow Flying miles whether the tip is $.00 or $20.00

And I get all the $20 when it's offered.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

dlearl476 said:


> I still get $3.50 + Crow Flying miles whether the tip is $.00 or $20.00


I've been away for a while, but if I recall correctly you don't accept GrubHub offers if the customer doesn't tip. If that is the case, then you probably haven't noticed this. My policy is different. I base my decision on the bottom line pay. I don't care whether or not the customer tips as long as the bottom line pay makes the delivery worth completing.

What I have found analyzing my delivery data is that GrubHub increases the base pay if the customer doesn't tip. So in my market the standard base pay is $4 + Crow Flying miles. That is usually what I get because most customers tip. If the customer doesn't tip or if the tip amount is low, I have had GrubHub increase the base pay to as much as $7 (which is basically the same as getting a $3 tip from the customer). The great thing about these deliveries is that sometimes the customer didn't tip in the app because they were planning to tip in cash, so in those cases you get the increased base rate in addition to the cash tip.

In my market, it seems like GrubHub shoots for minimum delivery pay in the $7-$8 range. This isn't their public policy. It's just what they do. I am guessing it is because their data shows that drivers won't accept deliveries if the pay is less than $7. If the customer doesn't tip enough for the total delivery pay to exceed $7, then GrubHub increases the base pay to get there. It is similar to what DoorDash does except that the standard base pay rate is several times higher than DoorDash's measly $1.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

IMO, that's pretty back-assesses reasoning. What you've suggested is exactly the opposite of using tips to subsidize driver pay.

I'm not the one that refuses orders based on tips. Iirc, that's UberDriver.

Like you, I base my decision on the bottom line. I'll even accept a 10-15 mile delivery if the money is right.

My base rate is $3.50. In my experience, adjustments to the base rate have been based on distance to the pick up, not tip amount, or lack there of.

Today:









I accepted that TB delivery to see if the rate had gone from flat rate + CF miles, to time + distance, before I re-read the OP and realized it doesn't go into effect until 6/18.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> In my market, it seems like GrubHub shoots for minimum delivery pay in the $7-$8 range. This isn't their public policy. It's just what they do. I am guessing it is because their data shows that drivers won't accept deliveries if the pay is less than $7. If the customer doesn't tip enough for the total delivery pay to exceed $7, then GrubHub increases the base pay to get there. It is similar to what DoorDash does except that the standard base pay rate is several times higher than DoorDash's measly $1.


I often do GH over UE because GH will tell me the payout is $7 while with UE I tend to assume the payout is $4 or less since it gives no information to know.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> I often do GH over UE because GH will tell me the payout is $7 while with UE I tend to assume the payout is $4 or less since it gives no information to know.


That's why I never drive UE without a boost or quests. And if I even turn the app on while I'm driving GH, I only accept guaranteed deliveries over $6.

Tomorrow 10:00-2:00 is 1.1 + $9/3 Quest. It's the first time I will have logged onto UE all week.


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## AuxCordBoston (Dec 3, 2016)

See


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

dlearl476 said:


> I'm not the one that refuses orders based on tips. Iirc, that's UberDriver.


Okay, I couldn't remember. I know there is somebody on here that says that they don't accept any deliveries with no tip.



dlearl476 said:


> IMO, that's pretty back-assesses reasoning. What you've suggested is exactly the opposite of using tips to subsidize driver pay.


It's the same thing. It's just a matter of perception. The way GrubHub does it is perceived as paying you more when the customer doesn't tip. The way DoorDash does it is perceived as paying you less when the customer does tip. At the end of the day, though, those two statements are the same. It is just that one has a positive connotation (paying you more) while the other has a negative connotation (paying you less). It's all psychological games, and GrubHub is better at the psychological games than DoorDash. Plus, GrubHub is less transparent about what they are doing, so you have to do some digging to figure it out.

I said earlier that I analyzed my pay data. That was an overly generous assessment on my part. In reality, all I did was eyeball the data and look for trends. That doesn't really constitute an analysis. I looked at it a little more thoroughly this morning. Here is a chart that I made of my GrubHub delivery pay for the month of May. (I haven't driven any since May.)










Each pair of data points (blue and burgundy) represents a delivery. The blue data points are base pay, which is contractually $4.50 in my market. The burgundy data points represent base pay plus the customer tip amount combined (so base + tip). One thing that immediately jumps out at me is that somewhere in the middle of the chart there was a change in the pay model. I marked this time period with a double-sided yellow arrow. Prior to this time, base pay was $4.50 regardless of the customer tip. After this time, base pay is a minimum of $4.50 but is adjusted up so that the combined base pay + tip is at least $8. Note that after the yellow bar, base + tip has a hard floor at $8.

So they are giving me a flat base rate ($4.50), but if the base + tip does not add up to a minimum amount ($8) then they increase the base rate so that base + tip meets that minimum. So the increase in base rate is equal to ($8 - $4.50 - customer tip).

This is the exact same thing that DoorDash does. The difference (and it is a very significant difference) is that DoorDash's base rate of $1 is much lower than GrubHub's base rate of $4.50. This means that the customer has to tip less in order for the driver to see an increase in pay due to the tip. For GrubHub, the driver doesn't see any customer tip less than $3.50. For a similar DoorDash delivery, the driver doesn't see any customer tip less than $7. Another difference is that GrubHub also pays for delivery mileage, and the mileage pay appears to be completely independent from the base pay and tip. DoorDash doesn't pay for mileage at all.

All of this is based on the data after the yellow marker in my chart. This obviously varies by market since you showed me a screenshot of a delivery with no tip and no adjustment in base pay. From my own data, it is also clear that GrubHub tinkers with their pay model frequently. If I go further back in my data than what I showed in the chart, there are periods where the minimum was $7 instead of $8. So they may not even be using this pay market in my market any more. I won't know until I start driving again.........._if_ I start driving again.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

EM1 said:


> As a part-time Uber driver, I often see tips coming in a few days or up to a week after the trip. I believe they are holding tips in a short-term holding account (earning interest) then disbursing the funds later. This just started happening a few months ago. Uber is very, very desperate. Holding thousands and thousands of dollars in tips in short-term interest bearing accounts shows how sad and desperate Uber is. And yes I've had tips come in 10 days after the trip. Ridiculous.


If they are "playing the float" it hasn't happened to me yet.

Do you realize if you go and look at your trip a minute or so after a rider left the vehicle, it will refresh when it opens, and show you the tip ?
The customer also gets an e-mail receipt with their trip info and a tip option available at that time. Some may choose to tip you then......2-3 days later, especially if they were travelling.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> Okay, I couldn't remember. I know there is somebody on here that says that they don't accept any deliveries with no tip.
> 
> It's the same thing. It's just a matter of perception. The way GrubHub does it is perceived as paying you more when the customer doesn't tip. The way DoorDash does it is perceived as paying you less when the customer does tip. At the end of the day, though, those two statements are the same. It is just that one has a positive connotation (paying you more) while the other has a negative connotation (paying you less). It's all psychological games, and GrubHub is better at the psychological games than DoorDash. Plus, GrubHub is less transparent about what they are doing, so you have to do some digging to figure it out.
> 
> ...


I wonder if that's an alogorithm that they're trying in your market.

Like I said, the only time I've ever had a base rate adjustment has been for a long drive to a pick-up. (Like an UE guarantee). And there's definitely no minimum here. Without a tip, deliveries are almost always $5<. The shocker on that one I posted was that it was a Red Lobster. Usually it's TB, and I get them just as I'm ready to log off so my hands are kind of tied if I want to make the minimum.

Btw, last night, another Saturday without a single high-end restaurant order. One out of 8 $10<.

So, what market are you in, LP?



AuxCordBoston said:


> See
> View attachment 328960


Nice! ??


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

dlearl476 said:


> So, what market are you in, LP?


East-central New Jersey.



dlearl476 said:


> I wonder if that's an algorithm that they're trying in your market.


It seems like they tinker with the pay model from time to time. They do it behind the curtain, though, so you don't notice it unless you are paying attention. As long as the new pay model still complies with the contract that we both agreed to, then they have no obligation to notify the drivers when they change it. The graph that I posted above shows a clear change in the pay model. That one is actually in my favor. If I go back further in my data, back in March there was a period where they were adjusting the base rate to maintain a $7 minimum (instead of $8). My guess is that they are experimenting and trying to find a way to make sure that the problem orders (the ones with no or low tips) get delivered in a timely manner without incurring too much extra cost. At the end of the day, they want to be profitable.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> My guess is that they are experimenting and trying to find a way to make sure that the problem orders (the ones with no or low tips) get delivered in a timely manner without incurring too much extra cost. At the end of the day, they want to be profitable.


I was thinking about this today and I bet the reason customer information went away until the order was picked up is to avoid situations like the cold IHOP, 10 mile, no tip, I hour wait that Rickos posted about.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

I still saw the tip amount for the last few deliveries I did on Sunday.


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## KR23 (May 29, 2017)

AuxCordBoston said:


> See
> View attachment 328960


Same thing is happening to me.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

oicu812 said:


> I still saw the tip amount for the last few deliveries I did on Sunday.


When?

When I get an offer, it shows the total payout, like in AuxCirdBiston's screenshot. From when I accept, until I click "Got Order," it shows "Diner information will be available after you pick up their order" where it used to show the tip amount and any delivery information they bothered to include.
As in the OP

The tips shows again in the "Pay Summary" window once you complete the order.

What this precludes is accepting an offer, then cancelling when you see it's to a 6th floor walk up with $0.00 tip.


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## EM1 (Apr 28, 2019)

ANT 7 said:


> If they are "playing the float" it hasn't happened to me yet.
> 
> Do you realize if you go and look at your trip a minute or so after a rider left the vehicle, it will refresh when it opens, and show you the tip ?
> The customer also gets an e-mail receipt with their trip info and a tip option available at that time. Some may choose to tip you then......2-3 days later, especially if they were travelling.


Good point, to be honest I don't go in and check the ride for a tip...but I can say, many locals the tip is showing up a day or more later. I know that can happen occasionally, but the amount its happening (maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the time) that seems like a lot, and, given Uber's lack of integrity in other areas, is a cause for suspicion IMO.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

dlearl476 said:


> When?
> 
> When I get an offer, it shows the total payout, like in AuxCirdBiston's screenshot. From when I accept, until I click "Got Order," it shows "Diner information will be available after you pick up their order" where it used to show the tip amount and any delivery information they bothered to include.
> As in the OP
> ...


After I click accept, I go the the Diner Info part and I can see the amount of the tip like I always done before.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

oicu812 said:


> After I click accept, I go the the Diner Info part and I can see the amount of the tip like I always done before.


Interesting. Did you get an update prompt when you went to log in last week? (I think 1-2 weeks ago.)


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

dlearl476 said:


> Interesting. Did you get an update prompt when you went to log in last week? (I think 1-2 weeks ago.)


I have 3.39 that was updated a couple days ago. I made a few deliveries today and the tips were still showing like before.


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## dlearl476 (Oct 3, 2017)

oicu812 said:


> I have 3.39 that was updated a couple days ago. I made a few deliveries today and the tips were still showing like before.


Seems like GH is adopting UE's "We have too many drivers in xxx market, let's **** with them until a bunch quit" business model.

I guess I should be happy I still get $3.50 + CF miles.


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