# Taxes (I know the millionth time this subject has come up)



## DalLuv (Feb 13, 2015)

I did a search, but couldn't find this specific question asked/answered. I think I understand that mileage driving around waiting for a ping can be deducted. I use the destination filter to/from my day job and often do not get a ping. Would those miles be deductible, basically writing off my commute to work and back, even if I do not get a ping?


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## Drago619 (Nov 3, 2015)

Milage driving around waiting for a ping is NOT detuctable...but you can claim any amount of miles you want and just hope you dont get audited.


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## DalLuv (Feb 13, 2015)

Drago619 said:


> Milage driving around waiting for a ping is NOT detuctable...but you can claim any amount of miles you want and just hope you dont get audited.


Thanks! I did read from Quickbooks' website that you can deduct "miles driven waiting around for a ride request". Your response prompted me to go looking for where I had read that, and I stumbled across a nifty guide from H & R Block that is tailored especially for Uber drivers. It states that the first drive from your home to your first pickup as well as the last drive from your last drop off back home are considered like a commute and therefore are not deductible. So, if I understand correctly, any miles accrued after the first pickup until the last drop off while logged in to the app are deductible. I'll attach screenshots from each site, and the link to the H & R Block site as it is very informative.

https://www.hrblock.com/pdf/Partner-Facing-Guide-FAQ-Combined.pdf


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Drago619 said:


> Milage driving around waiting for a ping is NOT detuctable...but you can claim any amount of miles you want and just hope you dont get audited.


Yes it is. You are working either way, they certainly are deductible.

There is a grey area of whether the miles from the time you start to the time you pickup your first pax and the miles between your last pax and when you get home for the night, all while being online, on call and willing to take a pax, may not be deductible as they are considered "commute miles" but I still deduct them.

When I go online, i note the miles on the app TripLog. When I go offline, I note the miles. Any miles that I am online and actively ready to take a pax is considered business miles and deductible as you are actively working. I told my CPA that was exactly how the miles were calculated and he had no problems or hesitation to consider all those miles logged as a deductible.



DalLuv said:


> Thanks! I did read from Quickbooks' website that you can deduct "miles driven waiting around for a ride request". Your response prompted me to go looking for where I had read that, and I stumbled across a nifty guide from H & R Block that is tailored especially for Uber drivers. It states that the first drive from your home to your first pickup as well as the last drive from your last drop off back home are considered like a commute and therefore are not deductible. So, if I understand correctly, any miles accrued after the first pickup until the last drop off while logged in to the app are deductible. I'll attach screenshots from each site, and the link to the H & R Block site as it is very informative.
> 
> https://www.hrblock.com/pdf/Partner-Facing-Guide-FAQ-Combined.pdf


You are correct and so is H&R Block, Drago619 must just like paying more in taxes, thank you for your patriotic duty kind sir!
.


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## SailingWithThe Breeze (Feb 22, 2017)

Drago619 said:


> Milage driving around waiting for a ping is NOT detuctable...but you can claim any amount of miles you want and just hope you dont get audited.


This information is incorrect. You can deduct the mileage in-between pings, provided you are online and therefore working.

I have thoroughly read IRS Publication 17, Chapter 26 which addresses car expenses for business use. For anyone else that wants a boring, but informative read, it can be found here:
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch26.html

What is considered as a grey area by some is whether or not mileage is deductible from your home to your 1st pax and then again from your last pax to home. My take on it, and that of my very experienced CPA (and several of his colleagues) is that as long as you are logged in and online (and obviously accepting requests), then you can deduct the mileage. For me, I go online from the moment I leave my house until the moment I return and I deduct all of the mileage accordingly. Now, and this has only happened twice, if I stop driving TNC somewhere in the city and take a break to run some errands (and therefore I'm not online) then I stop tracking my mileage and then start tracking once I'm back online again.

In summary: 
Online = deducting mileage
Offline = not deducting mileage

Now for the good news that may simplify this for those on the fence:
I choose to track all miles while online and I keep appropriate documentation. (Actually, I go above and beyond and have very solid documentation.) Now, for the sake of discussion, let's say I am audited after filing my taxes next year. And during that audit, the auditor makes a ruling that the mileage driven to the 1st pax is not deductible, then the IRS will simply remove the mileage for that small portion driven that day. (I don't know about the rest of you, but that probably accounts for approximately 1/30th to 1/40th of the miles I drive.) And then the IRS would make me pay tax on that tiny portion that was not allowed. Now keep in mind that most CPAs agree that the mileage is deductible, so I'm just throwing out the worse case scenario if the IRS were to swing the other way. And besides, most auditors just want to see that you have proper documentation to substantiate your claim. Rarely, if ever, will they dig that deep in the weeds unless they suspected you were committing tax fraud.

Hopefully this helps shed some light on the subject.


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## Drago619 (Nov 3, 2015)

According to the IRS auditor that helped me with my taxes last year stated to me that only miles while driven after a ping to a pick up and on trip are deductable. And sinse uber only gives us on trip miles the auditor had me add up an average mile per pick up. That year we did 3 miles per pick up...if you think about what the H n R page says. Theres no reason to say miles while online and on the way to pick up are deductable, they would all be the same miles. As well as on trip. Basically you guys are saying all miles online are deductable. In that case i would leave my app on through the night and just write off my while odometer. As car as paying more taxes, i did not. I simply increased my per trip pick up enough to wipe out my bill..and hope im not audited again. I think im safe because the auditor said they are down to auditing 1% of refunds, so have at it.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Drago619 said:


> In that case i would leave my app on through the night and just write off my while odometer.


I mean, if you got one of them fancy cars that can drive itself all night long, have at it. If you are driving around online and intentionally not accepting pings, you are in violation of the spirit of the law but if you are actively working, and waiting for a pickup is working, its deductable. You are working and spending miles in the effort of such business.


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## Drago619 (Nov 3, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> I mean, if you got one of them fancy cars that can drive itself all night long, have at it. If you are driving around online and intentionally not accepting pings, you are in violation of the spirit of the law but if you are actively working, and waiting for a pickup is working, its deductable. You are working and spending miles in the effort of such business.


I live in an area where i could be online from 12 am to 7am and more than likely not get one ping..now whos gonna prove i wasnt actively working or racking up my miles..


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Drago619 said:


> I live in an area where i could be online from 12 am to 7am and more than likely not get one ping..now whos gonna prove i wasnt actively working or racking up my miles..


No one, but if you want to drive around in circles for 7 hours just for tax deductions and no pax/fares, I'm not sure if you should be concerned with who's going to prove you otherwise but rather, which psychologist accepts your health insurance....


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## Drago619 (Nov 3, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> No one, but if you want to drive around in circles for 7 hours just for tax deductions and no pax/fares, I'm not sure if you should be concerned with who's going to prove you otherwise but rather, which psychologist accepts your health insurance....


I woulda thought u realized that i wouldnt actually be driving anywhere...but if app on with no ping or fare can count as detuctable miles, then all my miles are ride share and try a prove otherwise.


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## leosc (Sep 27, 2014)

Drago619 said:


> According to the IRS auditor that helped me with my taxes last year stated to me that only miles while driven after a ping to a pick up and on trip are deductable. And sinse uber only gives us on trip miles the auditor had me add up an average mile per pick up. That year we did 3 miles per pick up...if you think about what the H n R page says. Theres no reason to say miles while online and on the way to pick up are deductable, they would all be the same miles. As well as on trip. Basically you guys are saying all miles online are deductable. In that case i would leave my app on through the night and just write off my while odometer. As car as paying more taxes, i did not. I simply increased my per trip pick up enough to wipe out my bill..and hope im not audited again. I think im safe because the auditor said they are down to auditing 1% of refunds, so have at it.


last year you were audited...

What is your annual mileage on your tax return last year that triggered that?


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## Drago619 (Nov 3, 2015)

Was not audited during a year i drove uber. Just have a very close friend that works as an IRS auditor and had him help me out. He says people always get it wrong but they are so under stafed they are down to auditing like 1 to 2% of taxes.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Drago619 said:


> I live in an area where i could be online from 12 am to 7am and more than likely not get one ping..now whos gonna prove i wasnt actively working or racking up my miles..


The deterioration on your vehicle from driving around to accumulate deductible miles will prove this to be a self-defeating exercise.


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## biglou98 (Mar 31, 2017)

That's funny. I saw the Q&A from Harry the rideshare guy. There, a lady who works for Quickbooks, and has a degree of some sort, stated that all miles, including dead miles are deductible. I have Quickbooks Self-Employed and track all of my expenses that way.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

biglou98 said:


> That's funny. I saw the Q&A from Harry the rideshare guy. There, a lady who works for Quickbooks, and has a degree of some sort, stated that all miles, including dead miles are deductible. I have Quickbooks Self-Employed and track all of my expenses that way.


Yep. All trip miles and the miles between trips, also called dead miles. That's exactly right.

You will notice the miles before the first pick up and after the last drop off are not "between trips" and, therefore, not dead miles. These are not deductible.


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