# Google’s driverless cars are now legally the same as a human driver



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-are-now-legally-the-same-as-a-human-driver/

*Google's driverless cars are now legally the same as human driver*

U.S. regulators say federal law could consider its computerized self-driving system as the driver. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's decision comes as California has proposed draft rules that require steering wheels and a licensed driver in those cars. (Reuters)
If you hop into one of Google's pod-like self-driving cars, you won't be considered the driver, according to a letter sent to Google by federal transportation officials.

Instead, the law will treat the car's software as the driver.

"We agree with Google its [self-driving vehicle] will not have a 'driver' in the traditional sense that vehicles have had drivers during the last more than one hundred years," the letter reads. "If no human occupant of the vehicle can actually drive the vehicle, it is more reasonable to identify the "driver" as whatever (as opposed to whoever) is doing the driving."

The decision by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration marks a huge moment for Google and the rest of the auto industry as it races to build the first fully autonomous motor vehicle. While most other carmakers are building their vehicles with steering wheels, brake pedals and other machinery in mind, Google imagines that its robot car will have none of these things.

That raised questions about how the government would view those cars. In November, Google filed a letter to NHTSA asking as much, calling for greater clarity about the word "driver" and what federal requirements Google might be subject to as a result, ranging from rearview mirrors to turn signals.









(Google)
NHTSA's response has wide-ranging implications for Google's engineers. But it doesn't categorically give Google the benefit of the doubt. For example, the agency's existing regulations for conventional cars require that vehicles include brake pedals and parking brakes that operate independently of one another by "hand or foot control."

Of course, Google's in-car computers wouldn't have any hands or feet to speak of. While NHTSA agreed with Google that the car would be controlling the brakes, that fact "does not excuse" Google from obeying the "plain language" of the regulation, it said. Until the agency writes new rules for driverless cars, NHTSA said, Google might have to ask for an exemption from that rule.

The letter offers a peek into the cutting-edge - but tremendously complex - world of driverless car regulation. As these vehicles become more mainstream, expect more of these debates to be hashed out in what otherwise might sound like dry legalese.


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## SGDriver (Oct 8, 2015)

Looks like the end is nearer than many had thought...


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

SGDriver said:


> Looks like the end is nearer than many had thought...


Yeah, 2025 or so... lol.


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## EcoboostMKS (Nov 6, 2015)

That is one beautiful automobile. I'll take one for $60k please.


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## MBENZ_GUY (May 13, 2015)

The thing about driverless cars are they don't account for all the things human drivers assist. For instance, who is helping the drunk pax in the driverless car? Who cleans up any mess before the next rider? Who keeps 5 people (or more) from jumping in the car and not wearing seat belts? Who fights with the valets and airport secret police (lol) to pick up the pax at a designated area? Who helps pax make 2-3 extra stops on a single trip? Who returns lost items? Who waits 10mins for pax to finally come out? Who stops pax from bringing open alcohol in the car? Who helps the pax to realize they're going to the wrong airport?


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

Automation is potentially coming in every industry actually, not just taxis/driving. Get your education up and become the computer engineers that write and work this damn thing and you will be paid handsomely.

I know, not possible for everyone to just go back to school, but that's the way the world is going.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

MBENZ_GUY said:


> The thing about driverless cars are they don't account for all the things human drivers assist. For instance, who is helping the drunk pax in the driverless car? Who cleans up any mess before the next rider? Who keeps 5 people (or more) from jumping in the car and not wearing seat belts? Who fights with the valets and airport secret police (lol) to pick up the pax at a designated area? Who helps pax make 2-3 extra stops on a single trip? Who returns lost items? Who waits 10mins for pax to finally come out? Who stops pax from bringing open alcohol in the car? Who helps the pax to realize they're going to the wrong airport?


As someone pointed out months ago here, we can't even get self check out lanes at the supermarket to work. There has to be a human for when the customer doesn't know which onions they picked up. And then there are the items that scan at the wrong price and have to be adjusted. Or the person doesn't place the scanned item in the right spot and/or the weight is off and it refuses to keep going.

People often get very frustrated with those things. If I have a bunch of produce I much prefer to get a human as it's FASTER.

If you nitice, the higher end places don't have them. Think Whole Foods. People prefer a human MOST of the time.

When driverless cars DO end up there for one trip hires I predict they won't be used by those who can afford better. They will be used by the people who have no other choices, other than maybe a bus. Anyone who can will want to ride with a human.

It will also mean humans will be MORE dependable if you're drunk, as you will quickly learn just how badly a machine deals with you (or doesn't--these pax will never find their car half the time, and it won't help they will all look the same).

However, for poor people to use them they will have to be used 24/7 to make up for the high production cost. Even with uberx now there are people still riding the bus, especially to and from work on longer trips, where an extra $20 a day is too much.

For the ETA to be what it is now there would have to be more cars than could make money. Again, for continuous use you can't have a car on every corner. Now the drivers are eating the waiting cost. Who will with the driverless cars?


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## SibeRescueBrian (May 10, 2015)

Here's an excellent column that Steven Hill just published regarding this topic: http://observer.com/2016/02/why-driverless-cars-will-screech-to-a-halt/


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## NachonCheeze (Sep 8, 2015)

MBENZ_GUY said:


> The thing about driverless cars are they don't account for all the things human drivers assist. For instance, who is helping the drunk pax in the driverless car? Who cleans up any mess before the next rider? Who keeps 5 people (or more) from jumping in the car and not wearing seat belts? Who fights with the valets and airport secret police (lol) to pick up the pax at a designated area? Who helps pax make 2-3 extra stops on a single trip? Who returns lost items? Who waits 10mins for pax to finally come out? Who stops pax from bringing open alcohol in the car? Who helps the pax to realize they're going to the wrong airport?


hmmm, based on that ....I'm thinking the driverless car may not be a good option for your run of the mill moron PAX


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

MBENZ_GUY said:


> The thing about driverless cars are they don't account for all the things human drivers assist. For instance, who is helping the drunk pax in the driverless car? Who cleans up any mess before the next rider? Who keeps 5 people (or more) from jumping in the car and not wearing seat belts? Who fights with the valets and airport secret police (lol) to pick up the pax at a designated area? Who helps pax make 2-3 extra stops on a single trip? Who returns lost items? Who waits 10mins for pax to finally come out? Who stops pax from bringing open alcohol in the car? Who helps the pax to realize they're going to the wrong airport?


This is why after a couple of trips in these things, riders are going to figure out that having a driver is preferable, and they will reject them.
I sure as hell would not ride in a driverless car. A few people might, but they are not going to replace cars with drivers, just as robots haven't yet replaced bartenders, though they could. I can think of a lot of industries that could be completely automated for the customers, but customers will reject them, though some won't. for example, when I go to CVS drug store, they have self - serving check out counters. I sat and watched how many customers checked out using them, versus customers that preferred waiting in line for a real human check out person, and it seemed about 50/50, but the lines in the human check out lines were constant. Machines are not going to replace humans, not totally, I hate to say it, but it's plain as day.


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## Major League (Oct 16, 2014)

SibeRescueBrian said:


> Here's an excellent column that Steven Hill just published regarding this topic: http://observer.com/2016/02/why-driverless-cars-will-screech-to-a-halt/


Hmm. Wonder if he read some of my posts on this forum. My predict is 50 years though. About 2040 they will start to roll out but public outcry will reign them in until billions of dollars are spent on new infrastructure. This will hold them back another 10 years. Funny thing though is there will be a boom in construction jobs for a decade. Lots of skilled and unskilled labor. BTW the companies pushing this tech will be the source of the money for the new roads.

Most of these cars will never see a city. Ubers dream of DL Uber cars for the masses will die a horrible death. If they somehow hold till then, I could see them investing in cargo transport though. Becoming one of the largest trucking companies in the US. Local trucking companies being the last leg with human drivers. This could actually happen in 10 years but more likely 15 or 20. Trucking companies will want to finish paying off their fleets. That is, unless Uber jumps in.

This tech will continue to improve as driver assist but no one will want a fully DL car. They'll be slow and frustrating to drive in. Handless highway driving will be all the rage in about 10 years. Most cars will have it by 2030. 
One day there will be a traffic violation for sleeping in the drivers seat.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

BaitNSwitch said:


> Automation is potentially coming in every industry actually, not just taxis/driving. Get your education up and become the computer engineers that write and work this damn thing and you will be paid handsomely.
> 
> I know, not possible for everyone to just go back to school, but that's the way the world is going.


Automation repair man
(already experienced in automation, electronic pneumatic installation maintenence and repair in petrol chemical industry)


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

So. . . If these rolling urinals score below 4.5 stars they will be parked untill taking a reprogramming course?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

I can already see pax carving initials into the seats before slamming the doors off hinges and kicking cars.


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## Ben Doerr (Jan 18, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> So. . . If these rolling urinals score below 4.5 stars they will be parked untill taking a reprogramming course?


Yes And given time outs for refusing to go 20 miles for a $4 fair
O Waite when it cuts into THEIR bottom line they will fix it in 10 minutes


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## Seastriper (Jul 1, 2015)

Hack into it and program it to HIT every UBER Executive and then AIR IT on CRIMINAL MINDS!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Seastriper said:


> Hack into it and program it to HIT every UBER Executive and then AIR IT on CRIMINAL MINDS!


I like the way you think!
But first
Send it by so I can siphon most of the gas.(I promise to replace the gas cap with a flaming rag. . .)


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

SGDriver said:


> Looks like the end is nearer than many had thought...


For Uber


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

I can see it now. . .
Drunks roof surfing driverless cars down the boulevard. . . Screaming yahoooooo. . .
Yes. . .
Imagine the possibilities.


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