# The truth about Uber insurance



## RamzFanz

There have been so many erroneous articles, blogs, posts, replies, and rumors on insurance while Ubering it has left a muddled picture on what you need and what Uber covers. I wanted to clear it all up if possible.


When you are an approved Uber driver but not on the Uber app, your insurance is what you have privately.

When you are on the app but have no ping request or pax and get in an accident, your PRIMARY insurance, the company you will file any claim with first, is what you have privately.* If they refuse coverage or pay out $0, Uber has a SECONDARY policy that provides up to $50,000 for injury per person, up to $25,000 for property you damage that is not your own, up to $100,000 total LIABILITY insurance. That means it will pay for people who are hurt or property you damage, up to the limits, IF your insurance declines or pays out $0, and NOTHING for your car. This is where you would be crazy not to discuss this time period with your insurance carrier. Mine covers me during this period as long as it's not full time work. You need to check yours in your state.

If you have received and accepted a request and are on your way to pick up a pax, Uber is the PRIMARY insurance, the company you will file with. It's $1,000,000 in LIABILITY coverage only. That is, it will only cover other people and property, not your property, UNLESS you have collision coverage with your private insurance, then Uber WILL cover the cost of your car up to its current value after a $1,000 deductible. I do not know if it has medical for you also but will update this when I find out.

If you are carrying a pax, then the coverage is the same as above when you are driving to the pax. It ends when the pax exits the car, not just when you end trip on the app.
*May vary by state.

_These are minimums in the US, your state may require better insurance from Uber._

_WARNINGS YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER:_


If you do not have collision off the app through your private insurer, you do not have it on the app, at any time.

If you are driving to the pax or have a pax and get into an accident, file with Uber's insurance, not your own.

If you work Uber full time, you may not be covered for collision during the_ app on waiting for a ping_ period by your private carrier.

If you get in an accident and you're not covered, it can destroy you financially for life. Please, make sure your insurance covers you. I found out I was covered by calling my agent for clarification and saying I was _thinking_ of Ubering. She barely knew what Uber was and had to talk to corporate and me several times to understand I was covered by Uber except _app off_ and _app on waiting for a ping_. It is a weight off my shoulders to know I have insurance and collision at all times.
You can see Uber's explanation here

You can look up your state certificate of insurance here

One caveat to private collision insurance: If you drive a low value car and have capital saved in preparation, it can often be wiser to be prepared to replace your car yourself rather than pay for collision coverage with a high deductible. You should do the math and see what works for you.


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## 5 Star Guy

I'm glad you looked into it. The state legislation has broken it down into Periods. There are three periods, which you did not label. The only period you are fully covered by Super is when you have a passenger in your car. Super partially covers you if you are on your way to get a passenger. Meaning you're screwed. If you log in to the app and you are not on your way to get a passenger, you're screwed. On top of that, many insurance companies do not allow and do not want you to drive your personal vehicle to make money with. They want you to have a business insurance policy like most vehicles used for business, full time. You didn't mention the relatively new TNC policy that some insurance companies, in some states are starting to offer. This new TNC policy will fully insure you and you will be allowed to use your personal vehicle to make money, part time. The problem is it might not be available in your state and not every company offers it. In other words, you could held liable and screwed for an accident you are involved in and not covered. Forget about damage to cars, you're talking medical bills, loss of wages, legal fees, a damaged car would be the least of your worries. Oh and Super has a deduction so good luck paying that deduction with your $10 ride. Insurance remains a huge issue and most drivers are not aware of it. Never contact your insurance company about it, they will gladly cancel your insurance. They do not want you to drive your vehicle to make money, its a huge liability. Google your state if TNC insurance is in your state yet. Oh and NC and OH seem to have coverage now without the TNC policy.


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## gman

Nice write up but it doesn't apply in all places. For example, in CA and I believe many other places Uber is in fact primary in Period 1.

http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/Enforcement/TNC/TNC+Insurance+Requirements.htm


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## Transportador

gman said:


> Nice write up but it doesn't apply in all places. For example, in CA and I believe many other places Uber is in fact primary in Period 1.
> 
> http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/Enforcement/TNC/TNC+Insurance+Requirements.htm


So this means that in CA, Uber insurance covers us during periods 1,2 and 3?


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## chi1cabby

RamzFanz said:


> When you are on the app but have no ping request or pax and get in an accident, your PRIMARY insurance, the company you will file any claim with first, is what you have privately. If they refuse coverage or pay out $0, Uber has a SECONDARY policy that provides up to $50,000 for injury per person, up to $25,000 for property you damage that is not your own, up to $100,000 total LIABILITY insurance. That means it will pay for people who are hurt or property you damage, up to the limits, IF your insurance declines or pays out $0, and NOTHING for your car. This is where you would be crazy not to discuss this time period with your insurance carrier. Mine covers me during this period as long as it's not full time work. You need to check yours in your state.


Period 1 coverage from Uber's insurance varies between different States. And that is where the confusion over Gap Insurance comes in.


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## BurgerTiime

If you get into an accident and file a claim with Uber, you must first prove 1: you are at fault 2: prove in writing to Uber your insurance will not cover the claim during the first period and THAT'S when your insurance will drop you like a brick!
If you did not first seek approval to ride share from your insurance company you will never be insured again and be black listed. Without insurance your driving days are OVER! That's why smart drivers know to roam without trade dress on in case an accident does occur. It will ruin your life! If you have a loan on that vehicle and did NOT disclose your intentions to used as a commercial vehicle, THAT'S LOAN FRAUD! If you are in route to get a passenger and hit something and need to file a claim without a passenger, you'll file that claim to your own insurance company, right? That right there is insurance fraud! You where in route and conducting in a commercial endeavor. *Explained to me by a family friend who's has been doing auto insurance for 15 years.
Also your loan may be deemed fraud and they came come take your vehicle. That's right! Remember you don't own that vehicle, the bank does and they are responsible for having proper insurance on that loan. This is something drivers fail to seek and it can cost them dearly. Do not buy into Ubers false insurance coverage for drivers. It's not in place to protect you, it's there for the passengers and that's why it's called "limited liability". More importantly, the new TOS UBER passengers sign when using the app omits any wrong doing and only provide a gateway to reserve a car and driver. They claim to just be a technology company (even though they are trying to put you all out of business with self driving cars) and that clause can land you in civil court. That passenger can sue your ass in cival court ruining your life further! I say get what you need to and get the hell out before anything bad happens. Driving for Uber or Lyft will not make you rich. You're only making them rich at your expense and your liability.


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## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> The only period you are fully covered by Super is when you have a passenger in your car.


I used straight descriptions instead of periods because I thought it was clearer. Maybe it isn't because, no, what you said isn't true. Periods 2 and 3, driving to pax, pax in car, are Uber as the primary coverage and with collision if you have collision. I provided the links to the simple explanation and the certificate. You should read them.


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## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> On top of that, many insurance companies do not allow and do not want you to drive your personal vehicle to make money with. They want you to have a business insurance policy like most vehicles used for business, full time. You didn't mention the relatively new TNC policy that some insurance companies, in some states are starting to offer. This new TNC policy will fully insure you and you will be allowed to use your personal vehicle to make money, part time. The problem is it might not be available in your state and not every company offers it. In other words, you could held liable and screwed for an accident you are involved in and not covered. Forget about damage to cars, you're talking medical bills, loss of wages, legal fees, a damaged car would be the least of your worries. Oh and Super has a deduction so good luck paying that deduction with your $10 ride. Insurance remains a huge issue and most drivers are not aware of it. Never contact your insurance company about it, they will gladly cancel your insurance. They do not want you to drive your vehicle to make money, its a huge liability. Google your state if TNC insurance is in your state yet. Oh and NC and OH seem to have coverage now without the TNC policy.


My post is about Uber insurance, not private insurance. It's up to each driver to work out their private insurance. Yes, if you are in an accident while you have the app on, period 1, and it costs more than Uber's liability limits, you will be on the hook. That's the reason I posted this, so drivers would know the truth and not go by the rumors. Did you even read the post?



RamzFanz said:


> If you get in an accident and you're not covered, it can destroy you financially for life. Please, make sure your insurance covers you.


Saying to _never contact your insurance_ and _they will gladly cancel your insurance_ is a completely false blanket statement. I contacted mine and he called back and said I have good news, you're covered. I simply started my conversation with _I am thinking about driving for Uber_. Again, did you even read my post?



RamzFanz said:


> I found out I was covered by calling my agent for clarification and saying I was _thinking_ of Ubering. He barely knew what Uber was and had to talk to corporate and me several times to understand I was covered by Uber except _app off_ and _app on waiting for a ping_. It is a weight off my shoulders to know I have insurance and collision at all times.


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## RamzFanz

gman said:


> Nice write up but it doesn't apply in all places. For example, in CA and I believe many other places Uber is in fact primary in Period 1.
> 
> http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/Enforcement/TNC/TNC+Insurance+Requirements.htm


What I am explaining are minimum coverages in the US. Good point, some states require better coverage (I updated my OP to reflect this). This is why I linked the simple explanation, which states this, and the certificates, so each driver could check their state.

As I read it, Uber does not have to be the primary in CA, they could just require the driver to carry TNC insurance for themselves during period 1 and provide the secondary as they do everywhere else. I'm not saying that is their policy, just that they could.

"TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC that provides coverage if a driver does not maintain the required TNC insurance, or if the driver's TNC insurance ceases to exist or is cancelled; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b)."


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## RamzFanz

Transportador said:


> So this means that in CA, Uber insurance covers us during periods 1,2 and 3?


Read your certificate, email Uber with questions, and make sure your private insurance is on board. Trust me, DO NOT take anyone's word, including my own, most articles and drivers don't understand the insurance.


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## RamzFanz

BurgerTiime said:


> If you get into an accident and file a claim with Uber, you must first prove 1: you are at fault 2: prove in writing to Uber your insurance will not cover the claim during the first period and THAT'S when your insurance will drop you like a brick!
> If you did not first seek approval to ride share from your insurance company you will never be insured again and be black listed. Without insurance your driving days are OVER! That's why smart drivers know to roam without trade dress on in case an accident does occur. It will ruin your life! If you have a loan on that vehicle and did NOT disclose your intentions to used as a commercial vehicle, THAT'S LOAN FRAUD! If you are in route to get a passenger and hit something and need to file a claim without a passenger, you'll file that claim to your own insurance company, right? That right there is insurance fraud! You where in route and conducting in a commercial endeavor. *Explained to me by a family friend who's has been doing auto insurance for 15 years.
> Also your loan may be deemed fraud and they came come take your vehicle. That's right! Remember you don't own that vehicle, the bank does and they are responsible for having proper insurance on that loan. This is something drivers fail to seek and it can cost them dearly. Do not buy into Ubers false insurance coverage for drivers. It's not in place to protect you, it's there for the passengers and that's why it's called "limited liability". More importantly, the new TOS UBER passengers sign when using the app omits any wrong doing and only provide a gateway to reserve a car and driver. They claim to just be a technology company (even though they are trying to put you all out of business with self driving cars) and that clause can land you in civil court. That passenger can sue your ass in cival court ruining your life further! I say get what you need to and get the hell out before anything bad happens. Driving for Uber or Lyft will not make you rich. You're only making them rich at your expense and your liability.


Your descriptions are *not true*. Please refer to my explanation, Uber's explanation, and the links I provided. Talk to Uber and your own insurance for clarity.


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## RamzFanz

BurgerTiime said:


> If you did not first seek approval to ride share from your insurance company you will never be insured again and be black listed.


*False*. You SHOULD make sure you are covered, as I did, but being as some insurance companies allow ridesharing, your blanket statement is not true and there is no black list.



BurgerTiime said:


> If you get into an accident and file a claim with Uber, you must first prove 1: you are at fault 2: prove in writing to Uber your insurance will not cover the claim during the first period and THAT'S when your insurance will drop you like a brick!


*False*. You do not need to be at fault. Your insurance will not drop you if you did your due diligence and ensured you are insured.



BurgerTiime said:


> If you are in route to get a passenger and hit something and need to file a claim without a passenger, you'll file that claim to your own insurance company, right?


*False*. When enroute to a pax, Uber is the PRIMARY, just as I wrote, just as Uber explains, just as the certificate shows. Your "family friend" is dead wrong, it's in writing and enforceable by rule of law.



BurgerTiime said:


> Also your loan may be deemed fraud and they came come take your vehicle. That's right! Remember you don't own that vehicle, the bank does and they are responsible for having proper insurance on that loan. This is something drivers fail to seek and it can cost them dearly. Do not buy into Ubers false insurance coverage for drivers. It's not in place to protect you, it's there for the passengers and that's why it's called "limited liability".


Read your loan. There may or may not be a clause for commercial uses, mine did not, and it may or may not be enforceable. Uber's insurance coverage is not false, it is explained clearly. It is not limited liability in phases 2 and 3, as clearly explained in my post, it is also collision IF you already carry collision.



BurgerTiime said:


> They claim to just be a technology company (even though they are trying to put you all out of business with self driving cars) and that clause can land you in civil court. That passenger can sue your ass in cival court ruining your life further! I say get what you need to and get the hell out before anything bad happens. Driving for Uber or Lyft will not make you rich. You're only making them rich at your expense and your liability.


Your opinions are fraught with legal and logical errors. How about, instead of the hyperbole, agenda driven opinion, and fear mongering, we just stick to facts so other drivers can ensure they are protected?


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## BurgerTiime

Wrong!! People on this site have posted their insurance company's have dropped them! You must disclose to your insurance company what your doing or its insrance fraud!! I've personally went into my federal credit union have been personally told they will not give me a loan to do ride share. They consider Lyft and Uber just like a taxi! If I obtained that loan and lied on the application that's loan fraud and it's illegal.
Please feel free to call Wings Financial yourself.
+1 (763) 549-6000
Minneapolis, MN


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## RamzFanz

BurgerTiime said:


> Wrong!! People on this site have posted their insurance company's have dropped them! You must disclose to your insurance company what your doing or its insrance fraud!! I've personally went into my federal credit union have been personally told they will not give me a loan to do ride share. They consider Lyft and Uber just like a taxi! If I obtained that loan and lied on the application that's loan fraud and it's illegal.
> Please feel free to call Wings Financial yourself.
> +1 (763) 549-6000
> Minneapolis, MN


Again, you are using blanket statements and exaggeration. You may or may not need to disclose your driving to your insurance company, policies vary as well as state laws. For mine, I did *NOT* have to, I was already covered, so *FALSE*, it is not automatically "fraud", which is a silly statement. Fraud is when you INTEND to deceive, so just stop with the blanket claims.

Your credit union is one small institution in one state. What they said has *ZERO* bearing on what others may have. Of course you could have issues if you lied on a loan application, when did anyone say you wouldn't?!


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## BurgerTiime

RamzFanz said:


> Again, you are using blanket statements and exaggeration. You may or may not need to disclose your driving to your insurance company, policies vary as well as state laws. For mine, I did *NOT* have to, I was already covered, so *FALSE*, it is not automatically "fraud", which is a silly statement. Fraud is when you INTEND to deceive, so just stop with the blanket claims.
> 
> Your credit union is one small institution in one state. What they said has *ZERO* bearing on what others may have. Of course you could have issues if you lied on a loan application, when did anyone say you wouldn't?!


You should stay in school. This isn't for for. It wasn't for me.


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## JimS

How 'bout I don't get my loan from Wings Financial? I thought you quit rideshare...

Again, BoogerTiime, nobody's talking about what your insurance will and won't carry. RamzFanz is describing UBER's policy.


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## RamzFanz

BurgerTiime said:


> You should stay in school. This isn't for for. It wasn't for me.


The irony of your post is both deep and wide.


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## 5 Star Guy

Fist off, I'm not wrong about anything, since I spent time to find the law in your state and can't maybe you can post it for us? If there aren't laws that address this TNC gap insurance, its referred to that since you are not covered in other words screwed, then you are not covered and nothing you want to believe or say matters. If there is a TNC law in your state, it probably allows TNC companies to do business in the state, however the new laws recently signed address the gap insurance, so while most states now have TNC companies on the books, the gap is what matters.

Find your insurance policy or the new law or your agent is a donkey.


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## chi1cabby

RamzFanz said:


> Yes, if you are in an accident while you have the app on, period 1, and it costs more than Uber's liability limits, you will be on the hook.


RamzFanz you're actually still confused about the Period 1 coverage provided by Uber's Insurance.

*https://newsroom.uber.com/insurance-for-uberx-with-ridesharing/
*
_*$50,000/$100,000/$25,000 of contingent coverage between trips.*** During the time that a ridesharing partner is available but between trips, most personal auto insurance will provide coverage*. However the driver is also backed by an additional policy that covers driver liability for bodily injury up to $50,000/individual/accident with a total of $100,000/accident and up to $25,000 for property damage. This policy is contingent to a driver's personal insurance policy, meaning it will only pay if the personal auto insurance completely declines or pays zero. _

** That's a flat out lie by Uber. 
There are No Insurance Companies that cover the Drivers during Period 1, unless Drivers purchase a Gap Insurance / Hybrid Insurance / a Special Rideshare Rider on their Personal Car Insurance.
*
Like I & 5 Star Guy posted above:


chi1cabby said:


> Period 1 coverage from Uber's insurance varies between different States. And that is where the confusion over Gap Insurance comes in.





5 Star Guy said:


> If there is a TNC law in your state, it probably allows TNC companies to do business in the state, however the new laws recently signed address the gap insurance, so while most states now have TNC companies on the books, the gap is what matters.


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## RamzFanz

chi1cabby said:


> RamzFanz you're actually still confused about the Period 1 coverage provided by Uber's Insurance.
> 
> *https://newsroom.uber.com/insurance-for-uberx-with-ridesharing/
> *
> _*$50,000/$100,000/$25,000 of contingent coverage between trips.*** During the time that a ridesharing partner is available but between trips, most personal auto insurance will provide coverage*. However the driver is also backed by an additional policy that covers driver liability for bodily injury up to $50,000/individual/accident with a total of $100,000/accident and up to $25,000 for property damage. This policy is contingent to a driver's personal insurance policy, meaning it will only pay if the personal auto insurance completely declines or pays zero. _
> 
> ** That's a flat out lie by Uber.
> There are No Insurance Companies that cover the Drivers during Period 1, unless Drivers purchase a Gap Insurance / Hybrid Insurance / a Special Rideshare Rider on their Personal Car Insurance.
> *
> Like I & @5 star posted above:


You lost me sir, where was I wrong?

My insurance does indeed cover me as long as I'm not full time.


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## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> Fist off, I'm not wrong about anything, since I spent time to find the law in your state and can't maybe you can post it for us? If there aren't laws that address this TNC gap insurance, its referred to that since you are not covered in other words screwed, then you are not covered and nothing you want to believe or say matters. If there is a TNC law in your state, it probably allows TNC companies to do business in the state, however the new laws recently signed address the gap insurance, so while most states now have TNC companies on the books, the gap is what matters.
> 
> Find your insurance policy or the new law or your agent is a donkey.


You said:



5 Star Guy said:


> The only period you are fully covered by Super is when you have a passenger in your car. Super partially covers you if you are on your way to get a passenger.


I do not see anywhere that says that. The coverage is the same on the way to pax and pax in the car from everything I have read.

Unless something has changed recently, I do not know of any TNC state laws in Missouri yet. What you believe about my insurance is false and irrelevant. This is a discussion about what Uber covers, not fabricated rumors about policies you've never read or discussions you weren't a part of.


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## Shark11

RamzFanz said:


> There have been so many erroneous articles, blogs, posts, replies, and rumors on insurance while Ubering it has left a muddled picture on what you need and what Uber covers. I wanted to clear it all up if possible.
> 
> 
> When you are an approved Uber driver but not on the Uber app, your insurance is what you have privately.
> 
> When you are on the app but have no ping request or pax and get in an accident, your PRIMARY insurance, the company you will file any claim with first, is what you have privately.* If they refuse coverage or pay out $0, Uber has a SECONDARY policy that provides up to $50,000 for injury per person, up to $25,000 for property you damage that is not your own, up to $100,000 total LIABILITY insurance. That means it will pay for people who are hurt or property you damage, up to the limits, IF your insurance declines or pays out $0, and NOTHING for your car. This is where you would be crazy not to discuss this time period with your insurance carrier. Mine covers me during this period as long as it's not full time work. You need to check yours in your state.
> 
> If you have received and accepted a request and are on your way to pick up a pax, Uber is the PRIMARY insurance, the company you will file with. It's $1,000,000 in LIABILITY coverage only. That is, it will only cover other people and property, not your property, UNLESS you have collision coverage with your private insurance, then Uber WILL cover the cost of your car up to its current value after a $1,000 deductible. I do not know if it has medical for you also but will update this when I find out.
> 
> If you are carrying a pax, then the coverage is the same as above when you are driving to the pax. It ends when the pax exits the car, not just when you end trip on the app.
> _These are minimums in the US, your state may require better insurance from Uber._
> 
> _WARNINGS YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER:_
> 
> 
> If you do not have collision off the app through your private insurer, you do not have it on the app, at any time.
> 
> If you are driving to the pax or have a pax and get into an accident, file with Uber's insurance, not your own.
> 
> If you work Uber full time, you may not be covered for collision during the_ app on waiting for a ping_ period by your private carrier.
> 
> If you get in an accident and you're not covered, it can destroy you financially for life. Please, make sure your insurance covers you. I found out I was covered by calling my agent for clarification and saying I was _thinking_ of Ubering. He barely knew what Uber was and had to talk to corporate and me several times to understand I was covered by Uber except _app off_ and _app on waiting for a ping_. It is a weight off my shoulders to know I have insurance and collision at all times.
> You can see Uber's explanation here
> 
> You can look up your state certificate of insurance here
> 
> One caveat to private collision insurance: If you drive a low value car and have capital saved in preparation, it can often be wiser to be prepared to replace your car yourself rather than pay for collision coverage with a high deductible. You should do the math and see what works for you.
> 
> *May vary by state.


Thank you. Other than your scary profile pic. Great read.


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## RamzFanz

Shark11 said:


> Thank you. Other than your scary profile pic. Great read.


Changed it just for you!


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## chi1cabby

RamzFanz said:


> My insurance does indeed cover me as long as I'm not full time.


When speaking about Insurance as an Uber Driver, specificity is of utmost importance.

Questions that arise of your post above:

What is your insurance company?
How does your insurance company define "full time"?
Is Rideshare Coverage during Period 1 spelled out in the Policy Terms & Conditions?
Did you purchase special Gap Insurance Coverage, or a add a Rideshare rider to your Personal Car Insurance policy, or buy a Hybrid Insurance Policy?


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## 5 Star Guy

In other words you don't have proper insurance, like we all stated. You are screwed and choose to ignore it. We have asked you not to post incorrect information here, people need to know they are not covered in all but maybe 3 states.


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## Rex8976

I believe this topic was summed up best by a limo owner during the Broward County Commission Meetings last year:

Peek-A-Boo Insurance.


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## RamzFanz

chi1cabby said:


> When speaking about Insurance as an Uber Driver, specificity is of utmost importance.
> 
> Questions that arise of your post above:
> 
> What is your insurance company?
> How does your insurance company define "full time"?
> Is Rideshare Coverage during Period 1 spelled out in the Policy Terms & Conditions?
> Did you purchase special Gap Insurance Coverage, or a add a Rideshare rider to your Personal Car Insurance policy, or buy a Hybrid Insurance Policy?


1. State Farm - MO
2. Good point, I will need to ask for clarification. I didn't because I drive 20 hours or less a week.
3. It is not because it is new State Farm policy in MO. My agent said they are waiting for lawsuits to settle before changing the terms and conditions so they will comply with state law. I have asked that they send me the current period 1 policy in writing.
4. No. State Farm corporate said it wasn't required and it isn't available. If I were full time, State Farm would not cover me at all. They don't do livery insurance in MO.


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## 5 Star Guy

This has nothing to do with Super, the insurance companies are in business to make money and deny coverage. They raise your rates after you file a claim for the insurance you paid for. This is about personal vehicle insurance coverage. You might not like it but you need to answer to your insurance, first. So please read your policy and try to post the area that allows you to TNC. I almost guarantee it doesn't say anything that states you are allowed to and your donkey agents don't know better. If its not in your policy, in writing, you are not covered.


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## 5 Star Guy

In other words, you are not covered. Now you know, it took a while! lol


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## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> In other words you don't have proper insurance, like we all stated. You are screwed and choose to ignore it. We have asked you not to post incorrect information here, people need to know they are not covered in all but maybe 3 states.


No, in other words you said Uber only covered the driver fully in period 3, when a pax is on-board, which is blatantly and easily verifiably false. I do have proper insurance, I verified that I did, and my insurance is really not relevant to this discussion about what Uber covers, which you have falsely represented.


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## 5 Star Guy

You are only fully covered by Super if you have a pax in your car. There are three periods, you are not covered for the gap so you should get a new agent. Its not rocket science, you are at this point in denial.


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## chi1cabby

RamzFanz said:


> 4. No. State Farm corporate said it wasn't required and it isn't available. If I were full time, State Farm would not cover me at all. They don't do livery insurance in MO.


It's good to know that at least in Missouri, State Farm will supposedly cover part-time Uber Drivers during Period 1 with it's regular Personal Car Insurance policies.

Please start an Insurance thread in St. Louis sub forum to inform Missouri Drivers, if you've not already done so.

Thank you!

(PS: I've seen posts by members where their Insurance Agents are making the assertion that the Driver's Personal Insurance Policy will cover them during Period 1, while some other Drivers' policies from the same insurance company are being cancelled.)


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## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> This has nothing to do with Super, the insurance companies are in business to make money and deny coverage. They raise your rates after you file a claim for the insurance you paid for. This is about personal vehicle insurance coverage. You might not like it but you need to answer to your insurance, first. So please read your policy and try to post the area that allows you to TNC. I almost guarantee it doesn't say anything that states you are allowed to and your donkey agents don't know better. If its not in your policy, in writing, you are not covered.


My original policy, that I purchased over 15 years ago, came before TNC existed, so, no, it is not contained in those terms and conditions.

What State Farm corporate said is that the policy prohibits livery but they do not consider part time TNC as livery, so it is not prohibited. They are sending me this in writing which I will share here. My agent, who is a lifelong friend of my wife's family, worked on this over a two week period to ensure we both knew exactly what State Farm's position on period 1 is. I will go with a person I trust and who has the best of intentions over an anti-uber commenter who has already made false claims about Uber insurance even though it's clearly spelled out in the actual certificates.

This is about what Uber covers, please read my OP before commenting further and please try to get your facts straight about Uber's insurance.


----------



## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> You are only fully covered by Super if you have a pax in your car. There are three periods, you are not covered for the gap so you should get a new agent. Its not rocket science, you are at this point in denial.


Maybe we need to use pictures to get on the same page here:










Are you claiming Uber is lying about period 2? Do you have any evidence for this claim? Have you even read the Certificate?


----------



## 5 Star Guy

Again, your personal insurance policy does not cover driving your car to make money. That's where this ends. If you want to argue and continue, MO does not have legislation allowing you to drive your car under your personal insurance for TNC work. This is not livery, you're right about that. The terms to use are TNC and TNC gap insurance. State Farm does provide this insurance now in a couple of states, however you are in MO and therefore, if you go Super today without the evidence you still do not have, you're screwed as I've stated several times. Do not drive until you have this in writing, which you claim is all set so it should be a matter of seconds to get. Your policy has been updated each year. A new policy will address TNC when you look for it.


----------



## RamzFanz

chi1cabby said:


> It's good to know that at least in Missouri, State Farm will supposedly cover part-time Uber Drivers during Period 1 with it's regular Personal Car Insurance policies.
> 
> Please start an Insurance thread in St. Louis sub forum to inform Missouri Drivers, if you've not already done so.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> (PS: I've seen posts by members where their Insurance Agents are cmaking the assertion that the Driver's Personal Insurance Policy will cover them during Period 1, while some other Drivers' policies from the same insurance company are being cancelled.)


I will start a thread in a few minutes. Good point.

My own agent, whom I trust implicitly and who has worked on extremely complicated commercial policies for me many times, used Uber's policy and worked with State Farm corporate over several conversations between the three of us and assures me, their official current policy is TNC part time is not considered livery. While that may not please some on here that I am taking her word until I have it in writing, she didn't take this question lightly and has no reason to say it is allowed if it is not.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

I'll call State Farm and another company and will post the findings here.


----------



## driveflydrive

Transportador said:


> So this means that in CA, Uber insurance covers us during periods 1,2 and 3?


As far as I am aware: In California, The coverage that Uber provides in Period 1 only covers damage to the other car and not your own. If your car is damaged in an at fault accident in period 1(app on, waiting for a ping) you need to go through your own insurance. If you don't have rideshare insurance(through Farmers or MetroMile), and your insurance company finds out that you were doing rideshare.....you may be dropped and then be liable to fix the damage to your car at your own expense.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

There is no TNC coverage from State Farm in MO. I don't know why I need to go to great lengths to explain that but you are screwed. Please do not continue to post your misinformation, not covered is not covered. Get a new agent who knows what TNC is.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

State Farm: 855-733-7333. Good luck.


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## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> Again, your personal insurance policy does not cover driving your car to make money. That's where this ends. If you want to argue and continue, MO does not have legislation allowing you to drive your car under your personal insurance for TNC work. This is not livery, you're right about that. The terms to use are TNC and TNC gap insurance. State Farm does provide this insurance now in a couple of states, however you are in MO and therefore, if you go Super today without the evidence you still do not have, you're screwed as I've stated several times. Do not drive until you have this in writing, which you claim is all set so it should be a matter of seconds to get. Your policy has been updated each year. A new policy will address TNC when you look for it.


False.


----------



## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> There is no TNC coverage from State Farm in MO. I don't know why I need to go to great lengths to explain that but you are screwed. Please do not continue to post your misinformation, not covered is not covered. Get a new agent who knows what TNC is.


If part time TNC isn't excluded, it doesn't need to be added or in its own policy, you're just incapable of admitting when you are wrong. My "information" is about Uber's insurance because people, like you, keep making false statements about what they do and do not cover. Your private insurance is on you to figure out. I did, and I'm covered.

You are sitting in your cat turd filled sandbox throwing urine soaked sand in people's faces because you don't like Uber.

You claimed Uber does not fully cover a driver when driving to the pax, I proved you wrong, and now you're mad. I get it.

You've thrown your sand, you've had your tantrum, now why not let people who want to have a serious discussion use this thread, OK?


----------



## 5 Star Guy

Call the main number and report back. You will be cancelled. I warned you as others here have.


----------



## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> Call the main number and report back. You will be cancelled. I warned you as others here have.


Yeah, I'll pass on asking a CSR over my agent that I trust, but you have at it.

Hey , look, another member right here was told the exact same thing. I mean, what are the odds that two agents both investigated the situation and both came back with the exact same answer? Maybe this member is lying about the memo and there is an agent conspiracy to trick their customers?



nikb said:


> He gave me a call, cause I have several policies with them, and had to take my one car off when I started rideshare driving. We talked for a bit a while back about how he was hoping State Farm would give some options for drivers. He called me today to tell me that an internal memo was sent out last week saying that as long as livery wasn't the main use of the vehicle (as in, as long as less than 50% of your miles are used for ridesharing) State Farm has decided that using a car for ridesharing as a secondary activity is not grounds for cancellation or denial of coverage as long as any filed claims do not involve the rideshare activity at the time of incident, in which case, the Uber or Lyft insurance would cover.
> 
> I went in to talk to him, and read the memo myself (though he was unable to give me a copy, since it was internal.)
> 
> Any State Farm customers driving part-time would be well advised to call their agent, and check with them, don't just trust me. But I'm definitely switching back. I'm not thrilled with the whole dealing with James River thing if an accident happens, but I'm sure glad to know that I won't be dropped and the $200 I'll be saving every month now that I'm dropping my commercial coverage is just gonna go into my savings, just in case.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

Dude, in other words you are not covered! You can not file a claim. lol


----------



## 5 Star Guy

Its sad at this point, I feel bad. You're not covered, you have nothing to show that you are and therefore you are in the same position that most everyone in the US is. Many are losing their insurance and have to pay for an accident when they find out, like you just did that you are not covered the way you want to believe. You don't want to get the truth or your answer so stick with your belief but don't misinform people here. Stick to facts.


----------



## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> Dude, in other words you are not covered! You can not file a claim. lol


What? You were wrong about period 2 and want to throw sand? Is that what you're saying? That nikb is lying about the memo and the agents are lying too? That you know more than State Farm corporate and my agent with decades of commercial and personal insurance?

Could be. It's possible I guess.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

You are the one waiting for some documentation. The only option State Farm has in MO is personal auto or livery. In other words you are not covered until you can show otherwise. Period 2 and 3 varies by state, stick to your state. Several people have told you so its sad at this point. I'm not picking on you but you need to be clear and let others know what the facts are.


----------



## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> You are the one waiting for some documentation. The only option State Farm has in MO is personal auto or livery. In other words you are not covered until you can show otherwise. Period 2 and 3 varies by state, stick to your state. Several people have told you so its sad at this point. I'm not picking on you but you need to be clear and let others know what the facts are.


*False.* State Farm says part time TNC is not livery and thus, is not prohibited. Carrying a canoe isn't prohibited either, so I'm covered there too. Neither is owning a kitten, eating watermelons, or bad haircuts so, all covered.

Hey look, Barry, who responded on the _ride share guy_, was lied to by his agent too!

"Well i have been insured with State Farm for over 6 years. When i started driving for Uber i contacted my agent and told them they had no problem. When i bought my new Toyota Prius my wife was not convinced we could insure while i do rideshare (part time) so we called State Farm during the weekend and confirmed that i could drive for uber/lyft and be insured."

You must be too smart for the agent conspirators! You got them! JET STEEL CAN'T MELT FUEL BEAMS PEOPLE!

Please point me to ANY SOURCE ANYWHERE that, as you have claimed, says period 2 isn't covered, as stated by Uber, and provided to you by me. I'm sure you must be correct but, for the life of me, I just can't find it. Thanks.

In case you forgot:


----------



## RamzFanz




----------



## 5 Star Guy

Just FYI, MO is not on any TNC list I can find. I'm glad your agent says you're covered and you believe them. Too bad you don't have that documentation, which supersedes any Super coverage if you are not allowed to TNC in the first place. My CSR said you can't, in MO. If only you had something, like a policy that stated that. lol


----------



## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> Just FYI, MO is not on any TNC list I can find. I'm glad your agent says you're covered and you believe them. Too bad you don't have that documentation, which supersedes any Super coverage if you are not allowed to TNC in the first place. My CSR said you can't, in MO. If only you had something, like a policy that stated that. lol


My agent didn't say I was covered for TNC, he said part time TNC wasn't considered livery and thus, _by default_, _not excluded_. You don't seem to grasp this simple concept. I don't need TNC insurance because it's not excluded. So says my agent. So says State Farm corporate. So says Barry and the member here and their agents.

Carrying a pet pig isn't excluded either, so I can do that also. Neither is singing Ted Nugent songs, driving to the beach, or wearing funny hats, so, I can do all of those too. If they were excluded, I couldn't do them, but being as they are not excluded, I can. Wang Dang Sweet Poontang baby.

_Back to the false statement you continue to dodge:_

So, you have nothing that shows Uber lied about period 2? Is that what you're saying? You were wrong then and are wrong now?

I already knew that. Buc up little buddy, being wrong doesn't make you a bad person, just a wrong one.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

You don't need it and you are not covered. Same for most people in most states.


----------



## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> You don't need it and you are not covered. Same for most people in most states.


_Back to the false statement you continue to dodge:_

So, you have nothing that shows Uber lied about period 2? Is that what you're saying? You were wrong then and are wrong now?

I already knew that. Buc up little buddy, being wrong doesn't make you a bad person, just a wrong one. You can still hide on another thread and throw sand at newbies who don't know who you are.

By the way, why were you deactivated?


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> *False.* State Farm says part time TNC is not livery and thus, is not prohibited. Carrying a canoe isn't prohibited either, so I'm covered there too. Neither is owning a kitten, eating watermelons, or bad haircuts so, all covered.


Not true. State Farm specifically excludes any commercial/livery driving, period. I called their national line to find out last year and it's unlikely that it's been changed.

There are more than a few agents on the street who remain clueless to what Uber/Lyft are tho and will talk out of their hat. Had that happen too. So, if you want to take an insurance agents word, make sure to "get it in writing." Any other way is all b.s.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

Your personal insurance is not covered. You better worry about that before looking into their insurance. You are free to drive and free to get in an accident but you will not be covered, by your insurance. MO does not offer the TNC gap insurance and Super does not cover you in Period 1. Period 2 you are partly covered and 3 you should be fully covered. Send us the link to your info instead of cutting and pasting. I will let you know as I have others here if I'm wrong. Funny how you don't have anything to show that you are covered. I would grab that before I grab lunch. lol


----------



## 5 Star Guy

scrurbscrud said:


> Not true. State Farm specifically excludes any commercial/livery driving, period. I called their national line to find out last year and it's unlikely that it's been changed.
> 
> There are more than a few agents on the street who remain clueless to what Uber/Lyft are tho and will talk out of their hat. Had that happen too. So, if you want to take an insurance agents word, make sure to "get it in writing." Any other way is all b.s.


This poor guy is clueless and has been struggling with this since I joined here. I hope he finds a new agent soon, I would be more than happy to talk with his agent and have his agent call him if that helps clear it up. TNC is not livery and you are not covered by any policy to use your personal insurance to make money, unless you have an available TNC policy just for this.


----------



## scrurbscrud

5 Star Guy said:


> This poor guy is clueless and has been struggling with this since I joined here. I hope he finds a new agent soon, I would be more than happy to talk with his agent and have his agent call him if that helps clear it up. TNC is not livery and you are not covered by any policy to use your personal insurance to make money, unless you have an available TNC policy just for this.


I know. I carried a full blown commercial policy that allowed "personal use" (an opposite problem when you have 'livery coverage only.') Until a hybrid (Farmers) became available. And I am still not satisfied with their coverage and hope to find a better one, but in the face of numerous price cutz I could no longer justify the spendier policy and am now talking on more risk than I feel like having. Under a lot of these hybrid policies they provide no coverage at all for the driver when a pax/fare is on, putting the drivers entirely subject to the hopes that Uber pays out and they will NOT pay driver injury issues and their coverage for driver caused problems may be very iffy as well.

The field of insurance still SUCKS for drivers.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Not true. State Farm specifically excludes any commercial/livery driving, period. I called their national line to find out last year and it's unlikely that it's been changed.
> 
> There are more than a few agents on the street who remain clueless to what Uber/Lyft are tho and will talk out of their hat. Had that happen too. So, if you want to take an insurance agents word, make sure to "get it in writing." Any other way is all b.s.


My agent, along with other agents, contacted corporate and they said part time TNC is NOT livery. I've explained this several times. It's not excluded because it's not livery. My agent made several calls back and forth to confirm I was getting the right information. She wasn't talking out of her hat, she confirmed it. Several of us have received the EXACT same answer. One member here read the memo himself. And yes, I will post it in writing when I get it.

It sounded to me like this was indeed a new position. The CSR answering an 800 number may have no idea. I trust my agent. She wanted to know for herself also so she could answer other clients knowledgeably.

This OP is about Uber, not me, not my insurance. It was hijacked by a wrong dude troll so maybe we can get it back on track?


----------



## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> Your personal insurance is not covered. You better worry about that before looking into their insurance. You are free to drive and free to get in an accident but you will not be covered, by your insurance. MO does not offer the TNC gap insurance and Super does not cover you in Period 1. Period 2 you are partly covered and 3 you should be fully covered. Send us the link to your info instead of cutting and pasting. I will let you know as I have others here if I'm wrong. Funny how you don't have anything to show that you are covered. I would grab that before I grab lunch. lol


Still waiting for you to back up your period 2 fabrication. Any evidence will do.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> My agent, along with other agents, contacted corporate and they said part time TNC is NOT livery. I've explained this several times. It's not excluded because it's not livery. My agent made several calls back and forth to confirm I was getting the right information. She wasn't talking out of her hat, she confirmed it. Several of us have received the EXACT same answer. And yes, i will post it in writing when I get it.


Please do. I'd suggest it ain't gonna happen.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

Dude, no one is saying livery. You are not covered.


----------



## scrurbscrud

There are some big loop holes in period 2. Any participation by Uber is predicated on the drivers having a VALID policy. No personal insurance policy is a valid policy for doing this biz.


----------



## scrurbscrud

5 Star Guy said:


> Dude, no one is saying livery. You are not covered.


Vehicle for hire/pax delivery is still considered "livery" by insurance company standards. TNC's can claim whatever they think is livery. It won't matter to the insurance companies.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Please do. I'd suggest it ain't gonna happen.


A member here saw the actual memo.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Vehicle for hire/pax delivery is still considered "livery" by insurance company standards. TNC's can claim whatever they think is livery. It won't matter to the insurance companies.


A member here saw the actual memo. Other drivers have been told exactly what I was told. You really think that's all coincidence?

_Part time TNC is NOT considered livery in MO by State Farm_. That's what we were all told. It's not about "insurance company standards" or "TNC claims." it's about if they view part time TNC as livery, which would be excluded, and they do not, according to them.

I really am done talking about my insurance. I will post it when I get it.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> There are some big loop holes in period 2. Any participation by Uber is predicated on the drivers having a VALID policy. No personal insurance policy is a valid policy for doing this biz.


Show me the holes. I will listen to reason if it's valid.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> A member here saw the actual memo.


All hearsay. The only thing that matters is what is in the written policy. You will find a drive for hire and commercial use exclusion in every std. U.S. personal auto policy.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> Show me the holes. I will listen to reason if it's valid.


Already showed it. There is no personal auto policy that is VALID for doing this gig, period. Coverage for period 2 under Uber demands a VALID policy on the drivers end. A personal policy ISN'T valid.


----------



## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> Dude, no one is saying livery. You are not covered.


That is correct, no one at State Farm Corporate is saying part time TNC is livery so it is not covered by the exclusion list. Your completely fabricated assertion that there must be a separate TNC policy is ridiculous. Show me a Missouri law that dictates this to insurance providers. While you're at it, still waiting for you to show me how Uber doesn't insure you in period 2. Did you forget?


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> That is correct, no one at State Farm Corporate is saying part time TNC is livery


Any drive for hire is livery by insurance company dictates. What the TNC's claim they are when they say they aren't livery doesn't matter.

There is also an exclusion clause for commercial use of the vehicle, which TNC assuredly is. So the insurance companies have TNC driving excluded by either measure.



> so it is not covered by the exclusion list. Your completely fabricated assertion that there must be a separate TNC policy is ridiculous. Show me a Missouri law that dictates this to insurance providers. While you're at it, still waiting for you to show me how Uber doesn't insure you in period 2. Did you forget?


Already did a couple times now. Denial has been common place with many drivers here, so you're in common company called denial, working on non-existing assertions as opposed to black and white printed personal policy directives that anyone can pick up and read AND verify by making a few simple phone calls. Every driver with half a brain has already been through these exercises many times. But having less than half a brain is more common among TNC drivers.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Already showed it. There is no personal auto policy that is VALID for doing this gig, period. Coverage for period 2 under Uber demands a VALID policy on the drivers end. A personal policy ISN'T valid.


I see you making an argument, I don't see your sources. Please point me to where it says this on the Uber site or any certificate. Thanks.

Also, according to State Farm Corporate, a memo seen by a member here, and at least 3 agents I found quoted, our insurance is 100% valid for part time TNC. You can argue that it's not all you want, but that's just your uninformed word against the actual provider and their agents.

Please explain to me how three agents and a memo all said the exact same thing. Coincidence? Three agents winged it and just happened to come up with the same answer? Does that sound remotely possible?


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> I see you making an argument, I don't see your sources. Please point me to where it says this on the Uber site or any certificate. Thanks.


Read your Uber contract. To be paid out in period 2 the driver has to have a VALID insurance policy and be turned down by the VALID driver insurance policy before they'll pay out. Most drivers who get nailed in period 2 are bypassing reporting their problems to Uber or the police/insurance company and just claiming directly with their personal auto company, and collecting via insurance fraud. MOST of the hybrid policies we've seen float through here cover period 2. So there's your options.



> Also, according to State Farm Corporate, *a memo seen by a member here*, and at least 3 agents I found quoted, our insurance is 100% valid for part time TNC. You can argue that it's not all you want, but that's just your uninformed word against the actual provider and their agents.


All hearsay. I had direct citings by State Farm national that TNC driving is a no go on any State Farm personal auto policy and I doubt very much their verbiage in personal auto polices have changed on this count. They are relatively boiler plate from company to company.



> Please explain to me how three agents and a memo all said the exact same thing. Coincidence? Three agents winged it and just happened to come up with the same answer? Does that sound remotely possible?


Hearsay don't mean squat. The only thing that matters is what your own policy says in black and white. TNC driving automatically eliminates the personal auto policy from the start either under the livery exclusion or the commercial use exclusion. All the pee pee whining ain't going to make the print disappear.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Any drive for hire is livery by insurance company dictates. What the TNC's claim they are when they say they aren't livery doesn't matter.
> 
> There is also an exclusion clause for commercial use of the vehicle, which TNC assuredly is. So the insurance companies have TNC driving excluded by either measure.


You're as bad as wrong dude troll sand thrower. You are making declarations you can't back up and it's a waste of our time. State Farm can decide on its own what is not livery. State Farm can decide on its own what is not commercial. It's completely up to them if they are willing to cover a part time TNC driver, which, according to my sources, they have.



scrurbscrud said:


> Already did a couple times now. Denial has been common place with many drivers here, so you're in common company called denial, working on non-existing assertions as opposed to black and white printed personal policy directives that anyone can pick up and read AND verify by making a few simple phone calls. Every driver with half a brain has already been through these exercises many times. But having less than half a brain is more common among TNC drivers.


Yes, I knew you didn't have a source, that was kind of my point. Maybe you and sand thrower can start a thread and make up a whole world of your own where you can dictate what everything means?


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> You're as bad as wrong dude troll sand thrower. You are making declarations you can't back up and it's a waste of our time. State Farm can decide on its own what is not livery. State Farm can decide on its own what is not commercial. It's completely up to them if they are willing to cover a part time TNC driver, which, according to my sources, they have.


Not saying they wouldn't pay out once and then cancel the policy. That's a whole nuther story.



> Yes, I knew you didn't have a source, that was kind of my point. Maybe you and sand thrower can start a thread and make up a whole world of your own where you can dictate what everything means?


You don't need someone else to pick up your policy and read it/comprehend it. TNC driving is both commercial use (prohibited under person auto policies) and livery. Take yer pick.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

RamzFanz said:


> Yeah, I'll pass on asking a CSR over my agent that I trust, but you have at it.
> 
> Hey , look, another member right here was told the exact same thing. I mean, what are the odds that two agents both investigated the situation and both came back with the exact same answer? Maybe this member is lying about the memo and there is an agent conspiracy to trick their customers?


What I want to know is how they decide what "full time" is?

Right now I'm ubering about 3 hours a,week ON AVERAGE. (9 hours 3 weeks ago).

But if I didn't do it for 3 weeks and then did 60 hours in one week is that full time that week?

If it's THAT week then assuming the insurance is ok with part time but not full, are they going by the average (and for how long?--what if that was my FIRST week but I didn't intend to do it again?)

If it's not the average are drivers covered only on the weeks they have less than (20 hours, 30?--Walmart calls 28 hours full time).

Or is it by miles? Because I could be app on, sitting at home for 2 hours and do NO trips, NO miles.

Is that part of my "time"?

If I do one 100 mile trip in 2 hours and no other uber that week and only drive 20 other miles that week then what?

It's still clear as mud either way.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Read your Uber contract. To be paid out in period 2 the driver has to have a VALID insurance policy and be turned down by the VALID driver insurance policy before they'll pay out. Most driver who get nailed in period 2 are bypassing reporting their problems and just claiming directly with their personal auto company, and collecting via insurance fraud. MOST of the hybrid policies we've seen float through here cover period 2. So there's your options.


Just searched the agreement and found nothing of the sort. If you want to make a claim, at least quote it. Period 2 insurance is covered on the same certificate as period one. There is no difference between the two unless it's better than stated in the Uber summary.



scrurbscrud said:


> All hearsay. I had direct citings by State Farm national that TNC driving is a no go on any State Farm personal auto policy and I doubt very much their verbiage in personal auto polices have changed on this count. They are relatively boiler plate from company to company.


You had a conversation with a CSR some time ago. That's your entire argument?



scrurbscrud said:


> Hearsay don't mean squat. The only thing that matters is what your own policy says in black and white. TNC driving automatically eliminates the personal auto policy from the start either under the livery exclusion or the commercial use exclusion. All the pee pee whining ain't going to make the print disappear.


Yes, I guess you're right. Three agents and a memo at all different times and geographical areas all came up with the same official policy after discussing it with State Farm Corporate by coincidence and/or conspiracy. Makes sense.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Not saying they wouldn't pay out once and then cancel the policy. That's a whole nuther story.


You're not saying anything believable actually. You made claims and failed to back them up, just like the sand throwers.



scrurbscrud said:


> You don't need someone else to pick up your policy and read it/comprehend it. TNC driving is both commercial use (prohibited under person auto policies) and livery. Take yer pick.


I did. It excludes both commercial and livery. Fortunately, State Farm in MO doesn't consider part time TNC as either, so they aren't applicable.


----------



## RamzFanz

Fuzzyelvis said:


> What I want to know is how they decide what "full time" is?
> 
> Right now I'm ubering about 3 hours a,week ON AVERAGE. (9 hours 3 weeks ago).
> 
> But if I didn't do it for 3 weeks and then did 60 hours in one week is that full time that week?
> 
> If it's THAT week then assuming the insurance is ok with part time but not full, are they going by the average (and for how long?--what if that was my FIRST week but I didn't intend to do it again?)
> 
> If it's not the average are drivers covered only on the weeks they have less than (20 hours, 30?--Walmart calls 28 hours full time).
> 
> Or is it by miles? Because I could be app on, sitting at home for 2 hours and do NO trips, NO miles.
> 
> Is that part of my "time"?
> 
> If I do one 100 mile trip in 2 hours and no other uber that week and only drive 20 other miles that week then what?
> 
> It's still clear as mud either way.


I should have asked. Other drivers are saying it is 50% or less of the miles driven but I'm confirming this. You make really good points, I will ask.

As I have said from the OP forward, you should ask your agent. Is that a risk? Sure. But it's more of a risk to not be covered. This thread is about Uber coverage, and sand throwing apparently, I don't have any answers about your policy.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> You're not saying anything believable actually. You made claims and failed to back them up, just like sand panties.


Anyone who thinks an insurance company is going to go against their black on white print or trusts a verbal statement doesn't have their head screwed on straight to start with.



> I did. It excludes both commercial and livery. Fortunately, State Farm in MO doesn't consider part time TNC as either, so they aren't applicable.


Sure. Get it in writing or move on. You're wasting your breath if you think driving for MONEY *isn't commercial use* of the vehicle.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Anyone who thinks an insurance company is going to go against their black on white print or trusts a verbal statement doesn't have their head screwed on straight to start with.
> 
> Sure. Get it in writing or move on. You're wasting your breath if you think driving for MONEY *isn't commercial use* of the vehicle.


So, you have no source for your period 2 claims at all? Nothing?

Is this sand thrower in a fake account? You are like parrots.

Period 2, squak, period 2.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Fuzzyelvis said:


> What I want to know is how they decide what "full time" is?
> 
> Right now I'm ubering about 3 hours a,week ON AVERAGE. (9 hours 3 weeks ago).
> 
> But if I didn't do it for 3 weeks and then did 60 hours in one week is that full time that week?
> 
> If it's THAT week then assuming the insurance is ok with part time but not full, are they going by the average (and for how long?--what if that was my FIRST week but I didn't intend to do it again?)
> 
> If it's not the average are drivers covered only on the weeks they have less than (20 hours, 30?--Walmart calls 28 hours full time).
> 
> Or is it by miles? Because I could be app on, sitting at home for 2 hours and do NO trips, NO miles.
> 
> Is that part of my "time"?
> 
> If I do one 100 mile trip in 2 hours and no other uber that week and only drive 20 other miles that week then what?
> 
> It's still clear as mud either way.


Allstate supposedly has a TNC policy, but it's limited to part time driving, for which they have not defined any parameters yet. I'm still waiting for that to come out. Sometimes I drive more than full time, sometimes not at all when it's a shitty time of year, like now through Feb.

Is it hours or is it miles or is it both? Without clear definitions in writing there is no way to tell.

In any case if a driver gets into an accident and it's their fault, their TNC days are probably going to be over anyway. And it's off to high insurance land to boot.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> So, you have no source for your period 2 claims at all? Nothing?
> 
> Is this sand thrower in a fake account? You are like parrots.


Like I said, denial among drivers is the stronger element here. If you don't have anything to lose why would you care? I'm not in that position, so I do care about the fine print aspects of doing this commercial business.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Like I said, denial among drivers is the stronger element here. If you don't have anything to lose why would you care? I'm not in that position, so I do care about the fine print aspects of doing this commercial business.


Apparently you don't because you can't even quote the period 2 story you parroted. I'm very interested in your period 2 claim. Any source will do.

I'm certainly not in denial, I went to the very source of my insurance and my coverage was confirmed. When I receive written confirmation, I will post it here and I'll be sure to include you.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> Apparently you don't because you can't even quote the period 2 story you parroted. I'm very interested in your period 2 claim. Any source will do.


Read your Uber driver agreement. It's right there. Driver must have a VALID policy, turned down by the insurance company to be paid. They know full well that all INVALID policies WILL be turned down because they are INVALID. That means in period 2 the driver is just going to be "hoping" that Uber is nice to them. Good luck with that!



> I'm certainly not in denial, I went to the very source of my insurance and my coverage was confirmed. *When i receive it*, I will post it here and I'll be sure to include you and sand panties.


Well, you ain't got nuthin at this point but claims of wishful exuberance flying in the face of the obvious hard print to the contrary that any nitwit could figure out.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Read your Uber driver agreement. It's right there. Driver must have a VALID policy, turned down by the insurance company to be paid. They know full well that all INVALID policies WILL be turned down because they are INVALID. That means in period 2 the driver is just going to be "hoping" that Uber is nice to them. Good luck with that!


I did, it's not there. I figured you had nothing. I hear you squakin' but you're just talkin'. What's stopping you from quoting it? (I mean, other than it not existing.)



scrurbscrud said:


> Well, you ain't got nuthin at this point but claims of wishful exuberance flying in the face of the obvious hard print to the contrary that any nitwit could figure out.


No, I have the word of an excellent agent with decades of commercial and personal insurance confirmed by State Farm Corporate, at least two other agents who said the exact same thing confirmed by State Farm Corporate, as well as a witness to the actual memo.

My OP sited my sources. You have backed nothing you have said. Nada, zero, zip.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> I did, it's not there. I figured you had nothing. I hear you squakin' but you're just talkin'. What's stopping you from quoting it? (I mean, other than it not existing.)




Let's say understanding fine print doesn't appear to be your strong suit and leave it at that.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Let's say understanding fine print doesn't appear to be your strong suit and leave it at that.


Take your time, let me know when you have anything. I'll check in. No pressure, just a source other than your imagination.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> Take your time, let me know when you have anything. I'll check in. No pressure, just a source other than your imagination.


You already have the "source" in your own hands to read.

What you are reading into that source is typical driver denial. This is a mental anomaly that the majority of Uber drivers here have expressed, openly, often, repeatedly. There really isn't anything anyone can do for such people.

And you're currently waiting for your denial to be affirmed in writing, *which ain't gonna happen.*


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> You already have the "source" in your own hands to read.
> 
> What you are reading into that source is typical driver denial. This is a mental anomaly that the majority of Uber drivers here have expressed, openly, often, repeatedly. There really isn't anything anyone can do for such people.
> 
> And you're currently waiting for your denial to be affirmed in writing, *which ain't gonna happen.*


Yes, the source you said existed saying period 2 was not covered blah blah blah. That one. I'm still waiting. I searched every document, couldn't find it. I wonder why?


----------



## chi1cabby

This is getting ridiculous!

scrurbscrud, Since you last spoke with insurance companies, there have been many developments in Insurance for TNC Drivers.

*Uber | Insurance Aligned*

The Insurance risk faced by Drivers is:

In most markets, Drivers Personal Car Insurance is the Primary Insurance in Period 1, with the TNC Insurance providing Secondary Liability Coverage.
In Period 1, there is No Collision Damage Coverage from TNC Insurance.
Many Insurance Companies are still cancelling Drivers Personal Car Insurance policies.


----------



## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> This is getting ridiculous!
> 
> scrurbscrud, Since you last spoke with insurance companies, there have been many developments in Insurance for TNC Drivers.
> 
> *Uber | Insurance Aligned*
> 
> The Insurance risk faced by Drivers is:
> 
> In most markets, Drivers Personal Car Insurance is the Primary Insurance in Period 1, with the TNC Insurance providing Secondary Liability Coverage.




*
So,you are saying that ALL personal auto policies now authorize ride share?*



> In Period 1, there is No Collision Damage Coverage from TNC Insurance.




Never said there was.



> Many Insurance Companies are still cancelling Drivers Personal Car Insurance policies.


Don't disagree with that either.


----------



## gman

scrurbscrud said:


> Read your Uber driver agreement. It's right there. Driver must have a VALID policy, turned down by the insurance company to be paid. They know full well that all INVALID policies WILL be turned down because they are INVALID. That means in period 2 the driver is just going to be "hoping" that Uber is nice to them. Good luck with that!


I believe this is the way it USED to be. Many states have mandated that Uber be primary insurance at least in periods 2 and 3, and in some cases period 1 as well (i.e. CA). I have posted the CA TNC regulations earlier in this thread.


----------



## scrurbscrud

gman said:


> I believe this is the way it USED to be. Many states have mandated that Uber be primary insurance at least in periods 2 and 3, and in some cases period 1 as well (i.e. CA). I have posted the CA TNC regulations earlier in this thread.


I understand the requirements in period 2 vary from state to state and perhaps even from insurance company to insurance company, state to state.

I was not aware that Uber covered the entirety of driver insurance in Cali as long as the app is on. Does this alleviate the requirement to have a valid underlying personal auto policy?


----------



## chi1cabby

scrurbscrud said:


> So,you are saying that ALL personal auto policies now authorize ride share?


I'm not making any such blanket statements. Perhaps you shouldn't make blanket statements such as Commercial Livery insurance required for TNC Driving.

I just laid out the current catch 22s of Insurance for TNC Drivers.

Every Driver needs to find out the specifics of Insurance for TNC in their market. And every Driver needs to know what is or isn't covered under their Personal Car Insurance policy


----------



## RamzFanz

If you jumped to page 5 - TLDR:

I posted an explanation of Uber commercial coverage for drivers backed up with verifiable legally binding sources including the actual certificates.

They claimed period 2 was not covered and made vague claims about the partner agreement or some babble. I checked their sources and found nothing. They then tried to distract us from their unsubstantiated claims by making up rules that State Farm is supposed to follow simply because they say so. I countered with witnesses that corroborate my claims, including one who saw the actual memo.

We are now waiting for a quote or source about period 2 to backup their claims.


----------



## chi1cabby

scrurbscrud said:


> I understand the requirements in period 2 vary from state to state and perhaps even from insurance company to insurance company, state to state.


Period 2 is covered the same as Period 3 by TNC Insurance under the same policy.

Period 1 is the problem period for most Driver (except in California and a couple of other States).


----------



## elelegido

RamzFanz said:


> There have been so many erroneous articles, blogs, posts, replies, and rumors on insurance while Ubering it has left a muddled picture on what you need and what Uber covers. I wanted to clear it all up if possible.
> 
> 
> When you are an approved Uber driver but not on the Uber app, your insurance is what you have privately.
> 
> When you are on the app but have no ping request or pax and get in an accident, your PRIMARY insurance, the company you will file any claim with first, is what you have privately.* If they refuse coverage or pay out $0, Uber has a SECONDARY policy that provides up to $50,000 for injury per person, up to $25,000 for property you damage that is not your own, up to $100,000 total LIABILITY insurance. That means it will pay for people who are hurt or property you damage, up to the limits, IF your insurance declines or pays out $0, and NOTHING for your car. This is where you would be crazy not to discuss this time period with your insurance carrier. Mine covers me during this period as long as it's not full time work. You need to check yours in your state.
> 
> If you have received and accepted a request and are on your way to pick up a pax, Uber is the PRIMARY insurance, the company you will file with. It's $1,000,000 in LIABILITY coverage only. That is, it will only cover other people and property, not your property, UNLESS you have collision coverage with your private insurance, then Uber WILL cover the cost of your car up to its current value after a $1,000 deductible. I do not know if it has medical for you also but will update this when I find out.
> 
> If you are carrying a pax, then the coverage is the same as above when you are driving to the pax. It ends when the pax exits the car, not just when you end trip on the app.
> _These are minimums in the US, your state may require better insurance from Uber._
> 
> _WARNINGS YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER:_
> 
> 
> If you do not have collision off the app through your private insurer, you do not have it on the app, at any time.
> 
> If you are driving to the pax or have a pax and get into an accident, file with Uber's insurance, not your own.
> 
> If you work Uber full time, you may not be covered for collision during the_ app on waiting for a ping_ period by your private carrier.
> 
> If you get in an accident and you're not covered, it can destroy you financially for life. Please, make sure your insurance covers you. I found out I was covered by calling my agent for clarification and saying I was _thinking_ of Ubering. He barely knew what Uber was and had to talk to corporate and me several times to understand I was covered by Uber except _app off_ and _app on waiting for a ping_. It is a weight off my shoulders to know I have insurance and collision at all times.
> You can see Uber's explanation here
> 
> You can look up your state certificate of insurance here
> 
> One caveat to private collision insurance: If you drive a low value car and have capital saved in preparation, it can often be wiser to be prepared to replace your car yourself rather than pay for collision coverage with a high deductible. You should do the math and see what works for you.
> 
> *May vary by state.


I completely disagree.


----------



## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> I'm not making any such blanket statements. Perhaps you shouldn't make blanket statements such as Commercial Livery insurance required for TNC Driving.


Never said it chi. Sorry. I asked you if you are representing that all personal auto insurance now accepts TNC driving. Isn't that still at the heart of these matters?



> I just laid out the current catch 22s of Insurance for TNC Drivers.
> 
> Every Driver needs to find out the specifics of Insurance for TNC in their market. *And every Driver needs to know what is or isn't covered under their Personal Car Insurance policy*


Again, never said otherwise. I am not aware of massive across the board changes allowing ride share to be done by national personal auto policy providers. Are you?

That's kind of why there are hybrid policies in many markets and perhaps in many more drivers are still morons when it comes to insurance coverage.


----------



## RamzFanz

elelegido said:


> I completely disagree.


Now that's a shock!

What do you disagree with? Let's be civil.


----------



## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> Period 2 is covered the same as Period 3 by TNC Insurance under the same policy.


I believe in my market the old rule still applies. That the TNC insurance will only kick in if the drivers policy doesn't pay. My hybrid policy covers me in period 2, so I am only left to the discretion of Uber/Lyft with pax in tow. Driving while app on, personal driving and period 2 is covered by my hybrid.


----------



## elelegido

RamzFanz said:


> Now that's a shock!
> 
> What do you disagree with? Let's be civil.


Nothing in particular. But why break with tradition now


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> I believe in my market the old rule still applies. That the TNC insurance will only kick in if the drivers policy doesn't pay. My hybrid policy covers me in period 2, so I am only left to the discretion of Uber/Lyft with pax in tow. Driving while app on, personal driving and period 2 is covered by my hybrid.


So Uber is lying?


----------



## RamzFanz

elelegido said:


> Nothing in particular. But why break with tradition now


That's fair.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> scrurbscrud - Patiently waiting for your period 2 source. No hurry, just didn't want you to forget. Do you have an ETA perhaps?


I don't worry about period 2 because my own policy covers me. As far as Uber's coverage goes, they do mandate that drivers have "valid" policies to do the gig. Not invalid policies. And they also state that policies may very well be insufficient and that it's the drivers job to figure it out, not theirs.

8.4 Company *may maintain* during the term of this Agreement *insurance* related to your provision
of Transportation Services as determined by Company *in its reasonable discretion or as
described in a City Addendum*, provided that *Company and its Affiliates are not required to*
*provide you with any specific insurance coverage for any loss to you or your Vehicle.* You are
required to promptly notify Company of any accidents that occur while providing Transportation
Services and to cooperate and provide all necessary information related thereto.


----------



## gman

scrurbscrud said:


> I believe in my market the old rule still applies.


Not sure why you would believe that. The Uber insurance graphic Ramz has been posting clearly shows period 2 and 3 as the same. Furthermore, in the note it states: "AT LEAST this much coverage is provided IN ALL US STATES for drivers while operating personal vehicles under the TNC model (caps mine)".

Also, anecdotally I believe several people have posted that Uber has paid claims in periods 1 and 2, so I don't believe the sky is falling claims that uber will deny claims once the personal insurance has been contacted and deemed void by livery work. If this was the case Uber would NEVER pay any claims in those periods, and clearly that is not the case.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> I don't worry about period 2 because my own policy covers me. As far as Uber's coverage goes, they do mandate that drivers have "valid" policies to do the gig. Not invalid policies. And they also state that policies may very well be insufficient and that it's the drivers job to figure it out, not theirs.
> 
> 8.4 Company *may maintain* during the term of this Agreement *insurance* related to your provision
> of Transportation Services as determined by Company *in its reasonable discretion or as
> described in a City Addendum*, provided that *Company and its Affiliates are not required to*
> *provide you with any specific insurance coverage for any loss to you or your Vehicle.* You are
> required to promptly notify Company of any accidents that occur while providing Transportation
> Services and to cooperate and provide all necessary information related thereto.


No, not a meaningless and unrelated passage, you said we had to make a claim on our insurance if we have an accident in period 2. This passage says nothing about period 2, valid insurance, or making a claim.


----------



## scrurbscrud

gman said:


> Not sure why you would believe that. The Uber insurance graphic Ramz has been posting clearly shows period 2 and 3 as the same.


As stated prior, some hybrids cover the driver for period 2. Mine does. And Uber's policy may vary from city to city or state to state on this count. Whether they do or not is irrelevant to me under my hybrid policy.



> Furthermore, in the note it states: "AT LEAST this much coverage is provided IN ALL US STATES for drivers while operating personal vehicles under the TNC model (caps mine)".


I will maintain that without a valid underlying policy, the entire scheme is IFFY, still.

The driver does specifically agree to have a valid policy for the gig, regardless.


> Also, anecdotally I believe several people have posted that Uber has paid claims in periods 1 and 2, so I don't believe the sky is falling claims that uber will deny claims once the personal insurance has been contacted and deemed void by livery work. If this was the case Uber would NEVER pay any claims in those periods, and clearly that is not the case.


I understand. I also understand that these are paid by company discretion and that they could very well make an opposite conclusion at their discretion if the situation warranted it, such as a driver driving bareback and being involved with a high dollar incident.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> No, not a meaningless and unrelated passage, you said we had to make a claim on our insurance if we have an accident in period 2. This passage says nothing about period 2, valid insurance, or making a claim.
> 
> I'll wait. You're doing good! It at least had the word insurance in it.


Whatever agreements Uber has still remain predicated on drivers having valid auto policies to do the gig.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> I don't worry about period 2 because my own policy covers me. As far as Uber's coverage goes, they do mandate that drivers have "valid" policies to do the gig. Not invalid policies. And they also state that policies may very well be insufficient and that it's the drivers job to figure it out, not theirs.


I might be wrong, but you tricked me into rereading a shit load of papers, and I didn't see a word about "valid" insurance. Isn't that word the crux of your entire claim?

OK, you were wrong. It probably was there at some point but, like your State Farm claims, your info is dated. I'll post my letter when it comes. She said a few days because of the holiday.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> I might be wrong, but you tricked me into rereading a shit load of papers, and I didn't see a word about "valid" insurance. Isn't that word the crux of your entire claim?


Uh, yeah, that does happen to be quite clear.

8.1 *You agree to maintain* during the term of this Agreement on all Vehicles operated by you *under this Agreement* automobile liability *insurance that provides protection* against bodily injury and property damage to third parties at levels of coverage that satisfy the minimum requirements to operate a private passenger vehicle on the public roads within the Territory.

IF a personal policy doesn't cover drivers doing TNC I might suggest it's not a valid policy.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> As stated prior, some hybrids cover the driver for period 2. Mine does. And Uber's policy may vary from city to city or state to state on this count. Whether they do or not is irrelevant to me under my hybrid policy.


Uber's policy does in fact vary from city to city. The graphic is the minimum, so, even in your market, period 2 is covered. You could have just checked the COI for your city.



scrurbscrud said:


> I will maintain that without a valid underlying policy, the entire scheme is IFFY, still.
> 
> You continue to use the word valid a if that is some part of the claim process. If you are insured by Uber in 2 and 3 at the time of the accident, you are insured by Uber, period. You don't even file a claim with your insurance. The standing of your insurance has zero bearing on the claim.
> 
> The driver does specifically agree to have a valid policy for the gig, regardless.


He agrees to maintain private insurance that meet the state minimums. No where does it say valid anywhere I searched so, "specifically", is not accurate.



scrurbscrud said:


> I understand. I also understand that these are paid by company discretion and that they could very well make an opposite conclusion at their discretion if the situation warranted it, such as a driver driving bareback and being involved with a high dollar incident.


Nope. Minimum insurance is paid based upon the agreement, not at discretion of the company. There are insurance laws. They would lose in court. They can cover something not listed and/or pay more than required, but not less. For example, they could allow part time TNC driving in order to keep their customers.



scrurbscrud said:


> Whatever agreements Uber has still remain predicated on drivers having valid auto policies to do the gig.


You could quote it where it says "valid". You hold down your right mouse button, swipe over the passage, press ctrl - c, place your mouse where you want to post your fancy quote, and press ctrl - v. It's like magic!


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> Uber's policy does in fact vary from city to city. The graphic is the minimum, so, even in your market, period 2 is covered. You could have just checked the COI for your city.


I'm not willing to have the period 2 coverage that Uber provides. My hybrid is better i.e. more in my behalf. I think it's important to have your own insurance representation in any accidents regardless. My hybrid may turn out to be quite insufficient for me in accidents where pax are in the ride and it happens to be my fault. Then I will be left to Uber's discretion and there will be no personal coverage for me in such an incident, from Uber. The driver will hang for his own bodily injury.



> He agrees to maintain private insurance that meet the state minimums. No where does it say valid anywhere I searched so, "specifically", is not accurate.


The implication is that it is a "valid" policy. As previously stated if commercial or livery exclusions invalidate the policy, then it isn't valid to start with and the entire Uber scheme falls apart. They wouldn't have to pay diddly if they didn't feel like it.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> Uh, yeah, that does happen to be quite clear.
> 
> 8.1 *You agree to maintain* during the term of this Agreement on all Vehicles operated by you *under this Agreement* automobile liability *insurance that provides protection* against bodily injury and property damage to third parties at levels of coverage that satisfy the minimum requirements to operate a private passenger vehicle on the public roads within the Territory.
> 
> IF a personal policy doesn't cover drivers doing TNC I might suggest it's not a valid policy.


You said "valid" "specifically". "Specifically" is pretty specific. It means the actual thing referenced and not an insinuation. Like "specifically a banana" couldn't mean a kiwi.

Yes, you agree to have state minimum liability insurance. You can suggest it isn't valid all day long. In no way would that invalidate Uber's insurance in periods 2 or 3. Read the certificate, it's not a requirement. You also agree to maintain a minimum average rating but not doing so won't invalidate the insurance either.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> You said "valid" "specifically". "Specifically" is pretty specific. It means the actual thing referenced and not an insinuation. Like "specifically a banana" couldn't mean a kiwi.


*It's unlikely it means drivers MUST have an invalid policy.*


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> As previously stated if commercial or livery exclusions invalidate the policy, then it isn't valid to start with and the entire Uber scheme falls apart. They wouldn't have to pay diddly if they didn't feel like it.


Not true. Nowhere in the certificate or in the published synopsis does it say Uber's commercial insurance isn't valid if your personal insurance wouldn't have covered you. It's just not there. One does not validate or invalidate the other. They are separate and not interdependent, specifically, and Uber has no say in an insurance claim, it's governed by law, specifically.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> Not true. Nowhere in the certificate or in the published synopsis does it say Uber's commercial insurance isn't valid if your personal insurance wouldn't have covered you.


I'd propose that having an invalid policy does present contract violation issues to the DRIVER.

Uber could care less if drivers are frauds. It just means they'll cover the pax anyway and screw the driver for violating their contract.

Don't really know why you'd want to take chances, unless as prior noted, you don't have a pot to piss in. Then, who cares?


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> *It's unlikely it means drivers MUST have an invalid policy.*


You're missing the point. There is no litmus test of your insurance for a claim with Uber while in periods 2 and 3. You don't file a claim with your insurance, it's not required. They don't call and ask if your insurance would cover the accident and then use that to deny your claim. It's irrelevant at that point, the commercial insurance is provided for you.


----------



## scrurbscrud

RamzFanz said:


> You're missing the point. There is no litmus test of your insurance for a claim with Uber while in periods 2 and 3.


The only litmus test is driver responsibility to provide an insurance policy "under" their agreement. Uber really doesn't care if it's valid or not. It's solely the drivers responsibility to provide same. If they didn't, then too bad for the driver. That's enough for Uber to scramble the driver at their sole discretion, imho.


----------



## RamzFanz

scrurbscrud said:


> The only litmus test is driver responsibility to provide an insurance policy "under" their agreement. Uber really doesn't care if it's valid or not. It's solely the drivers responsibility to provide same. If they didn't, then too bad for the driver. That's enough for Uber to scramble the driver at their sole discretion, imho.


How would they know if your ]=;qwkle

sorry, spider on the keyboard...How would they know if your insurance is "valid", ie accepts TNC drivers during app off and period 1?

It's a rhetorical question, Uber wouldn't know, so while your concern may have some technical merit, it is not a likely outcome.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

scrurbscrud said:


> Uh, yeah, that does happen to be quite clear.
> 
> 8.1 *You agree to maintain* during the term of this Agreement on all Vehicles operated by you *under this Agreement* automobile liability *insurance that provides protection* against bodily injury and property damage to third parties at levels of coverage that satisfy the minimum requirements to operate a private passenger vehicle on the public roads within the Territory.
> 
> IF a personal policy doesn't cover drivers doing TNC I might suggest it's not a valid policy.


Just to add my 2 cents. It's says "minimum requirements to operate a PRIVATE PASSENGER VEHICLE".

I would argue that even if your insurance declares your insurance invalid, it is because you are at that point NOT operating a "private pax vehicle" in their opinion.

But you DID actually HAVE "private pax vehicle" insurance at the the time of the accident. Your insurance is not saying you font, they're just saying (and possibly canceling you and refusing to pay) because they don't consider you to BE a private pax vehicle.

I don't think uber not paying because your insurance refuses to pay or cancels you is an issue or is happening.

Not that getting cancelled is not an issue mind you.

As an aside, I have had State Farm for 28 years. They have paid out 2 claims incurred while I was delivering pizza (one to me and one to me and to the other party). They know I do that and have not said it is a problem. They have never asked how many hours or miles I do it. Both were in the last 3 years.

For the first 25 years with them I only had one at fault claim for less than $300. I also have my house insurance with them. I don't know if that makes a difference.

They say uber in part time is ok. I haven't pressed as to what that means, but under any definition I am definitely part time now.


----------



## RamzFanz




----------



## RamzFanz

Fuzzyelvis said:


> They say uber in part time is ok. I haven't pressed as to what that means, but under any definition I am definitely part time now.


Apparently your agent is part of a nationwide conspiracy to defraud their customers and also a donkey.


----------



## wilskro

BurgerTiime said:


> If you get into an accident and file a claim with Uber, you must first prove 1: you are at fault 2: prove in writing to Uber your insurance will not cover the claim during the first period and THAT'S when your insurance will drop you like a brick!
> If you did not first seek approval to ride share from your insurance company you will never be insured again and be black listed. Without insurance your driving days are OVER! That's why smart drivers know to roam without trade dress on in case an accident does occur. It will ruin your life! If you have a loan on that vehicle and did NOT disclose your intentions to used as a commercial vehicle, THAT'S LOAN FRAUD! If you are in route to get a passenger and hit something and need to file a claim without a passenger, you'll file that claim to your own insurance company, right? That right there is insurance fraud! You where in route and conducting in a commercial endeavor. *Explained to me by a family friend who's has been doing auto insurance for 15 years.
> Also your loan may be deemed fraud and they came come take your vehicle. That's right! Remember you don't own that vehicle, the bank does and they are responsible for having proper insurance on that loan. This is something drivers fail to seek and it can cost them dearly. Do not buy into Ubers false insurance coverage for drivers. It's not in place to protect you, it's there for the passengers and that's why it's called "limited liability". More importantly, the new TOS UBER passengers sign when using the app omits any wrong doing and only provide a gateway to reserve a car and driver. They claim to just be a technology company (even though they are trying to put you all out of business with self driving cars) and that clause can land you in civil court. That passenger can sue your ass in cival court ruining your life further! I say get what you need to and get the hell out before anything bad happens. Driving for Uber or Lyft will not make you rich. You're only making them rich at your expense and your liability.


 ---

Yes these are excellent posts, that's the complaint I made to UBER, they explain in little detail not to my satisfaction--I did call my insurance company in Massachusetts, and they told me if I do that I'm cancelled. It is too involved to drive for UBER. Yes it can ruin you for life, hey look the insurance company looks at you driving many hours and the risk increases to the excessive. These posts explain it well, good job out there. I gave UBER a headache with my posts, so they dropped me. You want to take a chance doing UBER, with your car for peanuts, enjoy your self. It is not worth the risk.


----------



## UberPasco

Boy. It was nice that a few trolls took a break from their "Obama is a Muslim" postings on MSN to chime in here!! 
FWIW, I just renewed my Progressive policy (FL) and to RamzFanz point, it SPECIFICALLY excludes livery and TNC. So as of Jan 5, I am walking on the wild side. They said they will wait to see what the state does this session (if anything) before they consider revisiting their offerings. I don't think Progressive is interested in writing the business at all.
The state could REQUIRE a product to be offered (by all ins co in the state) AND TNC drivers purchase, OR they could just require all TNC drivers to purchase a policy (that is not required to be offered and may or may not be available). The latter would be uhmmm, bad.

BTW, If even if one were to have a full parallel TNC insurance policy, and were to make a claim against one, the other could drop you. Or jack up the rates. The only solution is either integration of the new reality or Hybrid insurance. Third party will always suck. You think it's difficult dealing with one Ins Co? Try four! And god forbid an Uber driver hits a Lyft driver who then hits a private vehicle who ran a red light. My head just exploded....


----------



## scrurbscrud

Fuzzyelvis said:


> *They say* uber in part time is ok. I haven't pressed as to what that means, but under any definition I am definitely part time now.


Gosh fuzzy, you've been posting here long enough to know by now that it's only what's in writing that counts. They say? Say what?!


----------



## 5 Star Guy

All I know is after 7 pages here, this poor guy does not have any facts or proof, just assumptions. You are not allowed to make money driving people in your personal car, with personal insurance with State Farm in MO. Super does not fully cover all of the expenses of an accident, plus there is a 1K deduction. There is a reason why TNC gap insurance is necessary for every driver and yes some states are now requiring it, however this poor guy thinks otherwise! I would love to call his agent and call him a donkey after he figures out he gave the wrong information. There is no TNC gap insurance in MO and therefore you are not covered.


----------



## POMilton

The fact that we have to try and understand this issue for a minimum wage job is lunacy. Oh yes, let me take on all the cost, plus more money out to insurance now? Come on! People, please stop driving, I made almost 16 bucks an hour with tips working the concession stand at a club volleyball tournament on a saturday in mid-december as a favor to a friend. I worked slinging pretzels and hot dogs from 9-4 and made 110 bucks. No wear and tear on my car, no trying to understand how the company is trying to screw me, no gas, no wondering if my rating will be lowered, no wondering if I need to pay more for insurance, no entitled millenials and their inane conversations. With the economy picking up and minimum wage increasing in many places, jobs can be found on a part time basis that are better long term money makers than Uber. I urge all of you to look into these other endeavors.


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## Fuzzy1

The only real way to find out what is covered and who pays for it is to get into an accident. I don't recommend that or relying on this site for knowledge.


----------



## Simon

Epic thread


----------



## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> All I know is after 7 pages here, this poor guy does not have any facts or proof, just assumptions. You are not allowed to make money driving people in your personal car, with personal insurance with State Farm in MO. Super does not fully cover all of the expenses of an accident, plus there is a 1K deduction. There is a reason why TNC gap insurance is necessary for every driver and yes some states are now requiring it, however this poor guy thinks otherwise! I would love to call his agent and call him a donkey after he figures out he gave the wrong information. There is no TNC gap insurance in MO and therefore you are not covered.


Remember 7 pages ago when you said Uber didn't cover period 2 and you were asked to back that up with a source and then you turned to personal attacks?

Yeah, still waiting.

So you don't even know what Uber covers, despite links to the actual COI and Uber's explanation, but we are to believe your opinion of a policy you've never read and multiple conversations with multiple drivers and agents along with State Farm corporate you weren't a part of?

I'll pass.


----------



## RamzFanz

UberPasco said:


> Boy. It was nice that a few trolls took a break from their "Obama is a Muslim" postings on MSN to chime in here!!
> FWIW, I just renewed my Progressive policy (FL) and to RamzFanz point, it SPECIFICALLY excludes livery and TNC. So as of Jan 5, I am walking on the wild side. They said they will wait to see what the state does this session (if anything) before they consider revisiting their offerings. I don't think Progressive is interested in writing the business at all.
> The state could REQUIRE a product to be offered (by all ins co in the state) AND TNC drivers purchase, OR they could just require all TNC drivers to purchase a policy (that is not required to be offered and may or may not be available). The latter would be uhmmm, bad.
> 
> BTW, If even if one were to have a full parallel TNC insurance policy, and were to make a claim against one, the other could drop you. Or jack up the rates. The only solution is either integration of the new reality or Hybrid insurance. Third party will always suck. You think it's difficult dealing with one Ins Co? Try four! And god forbid an Uber driver hits a Lyft driver who then hits a private vehicle who ran a red light. My head just exploded....


If you are full time or if Progressive makes no exception for part time TNC, you sure are in a pickle.

You still have secondary limited liability during period 1, and full limited liability during periods 2 and 3 along with collision in 2 and 3 if you carry it personally. I suppose if you were off app or in period 1 you could just stay quiet about Uber, but that's not reassuring at all and could have severe legal consequences.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

You still have secondary limited liability during period 1
In other words you are not covered. Your insurance company, State Farm in MO will not cover any claim related to a TNC accident. Its that simple.


----------



## Legal Eagle

It is readily apparent to me that most drivers are unprepared and unprotected for legal issues. That could easily be handled with a membership in LegalShield. The cost is roughly $1 per day.


----------



## GlobalGramma

I want to thank everyone for their input to this discussion. It has clarified many of my questions and concerns. I called my insurance company, and I am covered when Uber isn't, and they do not have a problem, will not cancel me, for driving with uber.


----------



## New2This

Interesting thread to say the least. This is why I love the internet.

I'm in the process of getting set up for Uber & Lyft doing Xchange Leasing. I'm in Virginia. I'm currently with Progressive. I called Flo & she said they consider ANY Uber activities to be commercial driving. She gave me 3 Independent agents that Progressive outsources it to. 2 of the 3 (third wasn't in office) said the only thing they could offer me was basically a taxi policy. One of the agents told me to call Geico, as they are the only company that offers a policy specifically designed for rideshare.

I also talked to a buddy that is an independent agent (he reps lots of companies) that said Erie may come out with something down the road but all he knew about in VA was Geico.

Called Geico for a quote. Talked to an awesome rep. Explained what I wanted & he gave me a quote. He was very knowledgeable of the periods when it's your coverage only VS Uber coverage. Supposedly Geico consulted with Uber to tailor their rideshare policy for their needs.

If you're in VA, they're your only source right now for legitimate coverage. I don't know about other states. I have the contact info for my Geico agent & if you PM me, I'm happy to give you his info. I don't get anything ($$$$ or otherwise) doing that. I just figure you'd rather talk to someone that does insurance for a living as opposed to get advice from the internet.

I also agree 10000% with Legal Eagle. I'm a LegalShield member (shameless plug- and marketing rep) so before I sign anything with Xchange, I'm talking to an attorney & having the lease examined thoroughly. Not that I don't trust Uber but...

In summary, talk to someone (lawyer/insurance professional) to make sure you're actually covered.


----------



## Hustle-n-Flow

Stop the insanity!!!! I have some advice for you all. Who gives a shit what anyone else thinks??? Do whatever the hell you want.


----------



## BurgerTiime

JimS said:


> How 'bout I don't get my loan from Wings Financial? I thought you quit rideshare...
> 
> Again, BoogerTiime, nobody's talking about what your insurance will and won't carry. RamzFanz is describing UBER's policy.


This was last year. Not recent.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

gman said:


> Nice write up but it doesn't apply in all places. For example, in CA and I believe many other places Uber is in fact primary in Period 1.
> 
> http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/Enforcement/TNC/TNC+Insurance+Requirements.htm


This is a nice summary of what TNC's are required to carry. However, it is not a good summary of the law that began July 1, 2015. The law states that personal insurance is not allowed to cover any period where the app is on. Therefore it would be illegal for a personal insurance company to pay a claim during period 1. In California, by law, unless you have a MetroMile or Farmers TNC policy, your vehicle is not covered during period 1.


----------



## Transportador

driveflydrive said:


> As far as I am aware: In California, The coverage that Uber provides in Period 1 only covers damage to the other car and not your own. If your car is damaged in an at fault accident in period 1(app on, waiting for a ping) you need to go through your own insurance. If you don't have rideshare insurance(through Farmers or MetroMile), and your insurance company finds out that you were doing rideshare.....you may be dropped and then be liable to fix the damage to your car at your own expense.


I checked with Farmers and they say they don't have TNC insurance for CA yet. Do you know anything different? MetroMile is too expensive I heard.


----------



## Transportador

RamzFanz said:


> Read your certificate, email Uber with questions, and make sure your private insurance is on board. Trust me, DO NOT take anyone's word, including my own, most articles and drivers don't understand the insurance.


Thank you, good idea! Hey, your new avatar still has really big ears...


----------



## RamzFanz

Transportador said:


> Thank you, good idea! Hey, your new avatar still has really big ears...


It's a thing.


----------



## gman

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> This is a nice summary of what TNC's are required to carry. However, it is not a good summary of the law that began July 1, 2015. The law states that personal insurance is not allowed to cover any period where the app is on. Therefore it would be illegal for a personal insurance company to pay a claim during period 1. In California, by law, unless you have a MetroMile or Farmers TNC policy, your vehicle is not covered during period 1.


Personal insurance is not needed for Period 1 in CA as Uber is primary. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.


----------



## Simon

GlobalGramma said:


> I want to thank everyone for their input to this discussion. It has clarified many of my questions and concerns. I called my insurance company, and I am covered when Uber isn't, and they do not have a problem, will not cancel me, for driving with uber.


Which company?


----------



## Simon

New2This said:


> Interesting thread to say the least. This is why I love the internet.
> 
> I'm in the process of getting set up for Uber & Lyft doing Xchange Leasing. I'm in Virginia. I'm currently with Progressive. I called Flo & she said they consider ANY Uber activities to be commercial driving. She gave me 3 Independent agents that Progressive outsources it to. 2 of the 3 (third wasn't in office) said the only thing they could offer me was basically a taxi policy. One of the agents told me to call Geico, as they are the only company that offers a policy specifically designed for rideshare.
> 
> I also talked to a buddy that is an independent agent (he reps lots of companies) that said Erie may come out with something down the road but all he knew about in VA was Geico.
> 
> Called Geico for a quote. Talked to an awesome rep. Explained what I wanted & he gave me a quote. He was very knowledgeable of the periods when it's your coverage only VS Uber coverage. Supposedly Geico consulted with Uber to tailor their rideshare policy for their needs.
> 
> If you're in VA, they're your only source right now for legitimate coverage. I don't know about other states. I have the contact info for my Geico agent & if you PM me, I'm happy to give you his info. I don't get anything ($$$$ or otherwise) doing that. I just figure you'd rather talk to someone that does insurance for a living as opposed to get advice from the internet.
> 
> I also agree 10000% with Legal Eagle. I'm a LegalShield member (shameless plug- and marketing rep) so before I sign anything with Xchange, I'm talking to an attorney & having the lease examined thoroughly. Not that I don't trust Uber but...
> 
> In summary, talk to someone (lawyer/insurance professional) to make sure you're actually covered.


How much more was Gieco?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

gman said:


> Personal insurance is not needed for Period 1 in CA as Uber is primary. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.


I think the key wording in UberBlackDriver's post comes at the end- " *your vehicle *is not covered during period 1."
So you and Uber would be covered for liability to others, but nothing for your car without MM or Farmers TNC coverage.
I'm no lawyer, but reading the statements from the CA Dept of Insurance, it looks like Uber can choose to make partners carry that coverage. It says that Uber can provide the primary coverage or have the driver provide it, the way I read it.

Period 1: App open - waiting for a match.


Period 1 - TNCs shall provide primary insurance in the amount of at least fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) for death and personal injury per person, one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) for death and personal injury per incident, and thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) for property damage. TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC that provides coverage if a driver does not maintain the required TNC insurance, or if the driver's TNC insurance ceases to exist or is cancelled; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b). 
TNCs shall also maintain insurance coverage that provides excess coverage insuring the TNC and the driver in the amount of at least two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) per occurrence to cover any liability arising from a participating driver using a vehicle in connection with a TNC's online-enabled application or platform. TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver, if the TNC verifies that the driver's TNC insurance covers the driver's use of a vehicle for TNC services; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).


----------



## New2This

Simon said:


> How much more was Gieco?


For me Geico was around $200 down then $150/month. That was for a new 2016 Camry through the Xchange Leasing program. That was for a Virginia resident.

It's pricey but worth it in the end for my peace of mind. IF something happens I'd rather not dick around with Uber or be in mortal fear every time someone gets close to my car.

Anyone wants the Geico rep info feel free to PM me, I'll give you his info & you can get your own answers.


----------



## Simon

New2This said:


> For me Geico was around $200 down then $150/month. That was for a new 2016 Camry through the Xchange Leasing program. That was for a Virginia resident.
> 
> It's pricey but worth it in the end for my peace of mind. IF something happens I'd rather not dick around with Uber or be in mortal fear every time someone gets close to my car.
> 
> Anyone wants the Geico rep info feel free to PM me, I'll give you his info & you can get your own answers.


You might want to hold off.. new information....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ops-prices-in-80-cities-in-the-u-s-and-canada


----------



## Uber-ray

gman said:


> Personal insurance is not needed for Period 1 in CA as Uber is primary. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.


I read it as possibly no collision coverage during period 1. A personal policy will not cover those claims while engaged in commercial business.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

gman said:


> Personal insurance is not needed for Period 1 in CA as Uber is primary. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.


Uber LIABILITY insurance is primary during all periods. Uber does not cover YOUR VEHICLE (comp and collision) during period one. This is easy to understand.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

It would be easy to understand if all independent contractors working for the same company, had the same coverage. It looks like the only full coverage is OH and NC. Other states have limited coverage like CA and some are now offering TNC gap coverage. Most drivers are not covered, who believe they are.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

5 Star Guy said:


> If its not in your policy, in writing,


In your shoes, I would at least want to see the memorandum on State Farm letterhead to which you have referred more than once. Even if it _*ain't*_ in the Insuring Agreement or Declaration Page, if it is in writing, you can hold them to it. Mind you, I am not doubting what your agent told you or your statements about her doing her HW. Marry, Sirrah, I believe said statements. Still, I would want to see it in black and white.



chi1cabby said:


> I've seen posts by members where their Insurance Agents are making the assertion that the Driver's Personal Insurance Policy will cover them during Period 1, while some other Drivers' policies from the same insurance company are being cancelled.)


I have seen posts and talked to TNC drivers here who have had their policies dropped or non-renewed. Many of them were drivers who allowed Uber to submit information to the Commonwealth of Virginia on their behalf.



RamzFanz said:


> What State Farm corporate said is that the policy prohibits livery but they do not consider part time TNC as livery, so it is not prohibited. *They* *are* *sending me this* *in writing which I will share here*. (emphasis mine)


AH! Thank you. Please do so. Mind you, I am not doubting you or what your agent told you. I simply want to be informed. Your statements about State Farm on this topic are not out of line (word choice deliberate) with what I have read elsewhere on these boards about State Farm and TNC work. There may, in fact, be a specific topic about State Farm and TNCs on these insurance boards. I want to learn, that is all. My purpose here is to become informed.



RamzFanz said:


> nikb is lying about the memo and the agents are lying too?


You and I are on the same page, here. Your statements are not out of line with what other posters on these boards have stated about State Farm.



RamzFanz said:


> Neither is singing Ted Nugent songs,


Does this include all three periods?

Period 1: Before Amboy Dukes
Period 2: During Amboy Dukes
Period 3: Post Amboy Dukes.

As that bootleg tape of a session with Nugent, Bob Seger and Mitch Ryder was recorded in violation of copyright laws, I assume that it would fall under the "illegal activities" exclusion.



scrurbscrud said:


> "get it in writing."


I do not disagree, but he did state that he would do it. I am awaiting this memo with breath as baited as more than a few cyberinterlocutors (is there such a word?) to this topic. Give the guy a little time to get it and post it. I want to see it, as well. My purposes are simply to become informed.



RamzFanz said:


> My agent made several calls back and forth to confirm I was getting the right information. She wasn't talking out of her hat, she confirmed it. Several of us have received the EXACT same answer. One member here read the memo himself. And yes, I will post it in writing when I get it.
> 
> I trust my agent. She wanted to know for herself also so she could answer knowledgeably.


The last quoted sentence goes far to explain why I want to see that memorandum. I do not disbelieve you. I do not disbelieve that your agent did her HW. Your being from Missouri causes me to assume that you understand: I just want to see it. Its display would lend both _*auctoritas*_ and _*gravitas*_ to your statements on the subject.



RamzFanz said:


> I should have asked. Other drivers are saying it is 50% or less of the miles driven but I'm confirming this.


I would be curious about State Farm's interpretation, as well.

The rumour about Progressive and TNC work has gone like this: "As long as TNC/rideshare is forty-nine per-cent of your mileage, or less, we do not care if you do it. Do TNC if you must, but do understand that if you are logged on to the TNC application and you hit something, do not expect us to pay. If you are not logged in and hit something, we will pay". Keep in mind that this is _*hearsay *__*ONLY*_. I have never seen anything in writing from Progressive to confirm or deny it.



chi1cabby said:


> Every Driver needs to find out the specifics of Insurance for TNC in their market. And every Driver needs to know what is or isn't covered under their Personal Car Insurance policy


Excellent advice, as usual from the above quoted poster. Every driver should be sure of his specific situation.



scrurbscrud said:


> Don't really know why you'd want to take chances, unless as prior noted, you don't have a pot to piss in. Then, who cares?


........as long as Missouri does not suspend your licence for an unsatisfied judgement, I suppose "who cares"? If you have an unsatisfied judgement in the District of Columbia, it will suspend your licence until you 1) satisfy the judgement and 2) produce an SR-22. You must carry the SR-22 for five years after that.



POMilton said:


> I worked slinging hot dogs no gas


This means that you did not eat any of the hot dogs.



RamzFanz said:


> If you are full time or if Progressive makes no exception for part time TNC, you sure are in a pickle.


The experience of the poster to whom your refer is contrary to what I have heard about Progressive. What I have heard may apply only to certain states, though. Add to that its being hearsay. Another reason why it is good to have it all in black and white.



New2This said:


> I also talked to a buddy that is an independent agent (he reps lots of companies) that said Erie may come out with something down the road but all he knew about in VA was Geico.
> 
> If you're in VA, they're your only source right now for legitimate coverage. I have the contact info for my Geico agent
> 
> In summary, talk to someone (lawyer/insurance professional) to make sure you're actually covered.


Erie has something in the District of Columbia. I bought the policy with the TNC/rideshare endorsement. Erie is the only carrier admitted in D.C. that offers such a policy. Erie only started offering it in October, 2015. Conveniently, my old (not with Erie) policy expired early December, 2015. I ran a couple of quick jobs on UberX in mid-November to avoid de-activation, then signed off and out, headed home and parked the car. I went to the agent and bought the Erie policy to take effect upon expiration of the old policy.

Metromile is another source for a TNC/rideshare policy. Metromile is admitted in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Supposedly, Metromile was designed for TNC work. G.E.I.CO offers a rideshare endorsement in the State of Maryland, as well. It offers nothing of the kind in the District of Columbia.

The last quoted sentence is good advice for anyone reading this topic (and anyone not). I am surprised, from a cowboys fan.



New2This said:


> For me Geico was around $200 down then $150/month. That was for a new 2016 Camry through the Xchange Leasing program. That was for a Virginia resident.
> 
> It's pricey but worth it in the end for my peace of mind. IF something happens I'd rather not dick around with Uber or be in mortal fear every time someone gets close to my car.


I am assuming that you are carrying full coverage. That _*IS*_ pricey, but your last quoted statements are all the reason that anyone needs to make sure that he is properly insured to do this kind of work (are you SURE that you are a cowboys fan?). I am carrying full coverage on my UberX car (2014 Ford Fusion Hybrid) through the Erie policy with the rideshare endorsement. I am paying less than you are. In fact, there is another vehicle on the policy as well. It does not carry the rideshare endorsement and carries liability, only. I still pay less than you do. That is curious, as I live in the City. As a rule, insurance policies in the suburbs are less expensive than similar in the City. Taxicab insurance is similar, though. We pay less than suburban cab drivers for liability insurance (I drive both taxi and UberX. I use two different vehicles).


----------



## New2This

Yes I am a lifelong Cowboys fan, however I'm atypical. I'm not (very) obnoxious and I have all my teeth. I'm smarter than I look, I just hide it well.

The price quoted from Geico was full coverage through their rideshare policy. I'll check what the same coverage would be for a regular non-rideshare policy with same coverage limits would be to see what the difference is.

Not surprised you pay less with Erie. They are a good company with hands down lower rates in general.

Progressive- that's who I have my non Uberworthy car with now. I called & talked to a rep (U.S. based, not 10,000 miles away), explained what I wanted to do with Uber & was told they don't cover rideshare at all. It's considered commercial. Progressive independent agents said they only offer taxi insurance & told me to call Geico.

Metromile- I just tried their site for a quote. They aren't in VA yet.

Hope that helps


----------



## Tx rides

RamzFanz said:


> You lost me sir, where was I wrong?
> 
> My insurance does indeed cover me as long as I'm not full time.


Do you have that in writing? If your policy has a livery exclusion it doesn't matter what your agent said on the phone. Part time/full time us nearly impossible for carriers to quantify and verify , it's why most say nay nay unless you have a special rider at a minimum.


----------



## GlobalGramma

Simon said:


> Which company?


USAA insured in Oregon. They do not have a TNC gap insurance, but the rep assured me that I would be covered by my existing policy unless I had accepted and was traveling to a Rider, or was en route with a rider. (So that means when I am online waiting for a ping.) Otherwise, Uber is responsible. I have a newer vehicle with comprehensive coverage.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

New2This said:


> Yes I am a lifelong Cowboys fan, however I'm atypical. I'm not (very) obnoxious
> 
> The price quoted from Geico was full coverage through their rideshare policy. I'll check what the same coverage would be for a regular non-rideshare policy with same coverage limits would be to see what the difference is.
> 
> Not surprised you pay less with Erie. They are a good company with hands down lower rates in general.
> 
> Progressive- that's who I have my non Uberworthy car with now. I called & talked to a rep (U.S. based, not 10,000 miles away), explained what I wanted to do with Uber & was told they don't cover rideshare at all. It's considered commercial. Progressive independent agents said they only offer taxi insurance & told me to call Geico.
> 
> Metromile- I just tried their site for a quote. They aren't in VA yet.


As the story about the seven year old girl whose family moved from Falls Church to Fort Worth is off-topic, I will not repeat it, here. I am no Redskins, Giants or Philadelphia fan, but I am a lifelong hater (or at least since 1960).

One thing that I did forget to ask you was what are your policy limits and what is your deductible? My limits are $100.000,00/$300.000,00/$100.000,00; my deuctible, five hundred dollars.

Everything that I have heard about Erie has been good. I have never heard a bad word about them. The agent is pretty good, as well. She has a Virginia licence, as well. Progressive does have a reputation for being high, despite what its advertisements claim.

Progressive does not cover for rideshare, that is true. If you look elsewhere on this topic, I did post something about what is alleged to be Progressive's attitude toward their insureds' doing TNC work. I do not know if it is true, I have nothing in writing to back up the claim, all that I know is that more than one poster on these boards has stated that while they will not pay if you hit something while logged on to a TNC application, the will not drop you, either. Mind you, this is only hearsay. I can not back up this. I am surprised to learn that they write for taxicabs. Thank you for the information. They do not write for taxicabs in the District of Columbia. This whole business of writing for vehicles used to carry passengers for compensation is a niche market within the District, anyhow. Most of the language in the appropriate law has not been revised since it took effect in 1938. The last major national insurer that wrote for taxicabs in the District of Columbia was Liberty Mutual, which pulled out in the mid-1980s. I do not know what Erie submitted to the Commission on Insurance, Securities and Banking (or whatever that agency's name is this week) to get into the market, here, but it is the only one that writes for TNC work for District registered vehicles.

According to Metromile's website, they are admitted in seven states: California, Illinois, New Jersey, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Washington. If you get there from the Google, point and click to "INSURANCE" and scroll down pretty far. It will show on a map and list the states where they offer policies. Perhaps someone has failed to update the website. Virginia is a recent admission.



Tx rides said:


> Do you have that in writing? If your policy has a livery exclusion it doesn't matter what your agent said on the phone. Part time/full time us nearly impossible for carriers to quantify and verify , it's why most say nay nay unless you have a special rider at a minimum.


He says that his agent does. There should be something about it on the declaration page or the insuring agreement, but, if it does exist in black and white and it has State Farms name on it, he can hold them to it. For now, I am taking his word for it. He did state that his agent is going to send it to him and that he will post it here. I can see where he might need a little time to get it in hand. If it does not show up after a few weeks, there goes his whole topic. I really do not think that the Original Poster has any reason to lie about the existence of the memorandum, nor does his agent.


----------



## Tx rides

Another Uber Driver said:


> As the story about the seven year old girl whose family moved from Falls Church to Fort Worth is off-topic, I will not repeat it, here. I am no Redskins, Giants or Philadelphia fan, but I am a lifelong hater (or at least since 1960).
> 
> One thing that I did forget to ask you was what are your policy limits and what is your deductible? My limits are $100.000,00/$300.000,00/$100.000,00; my deuctible, five hundred dollars.
> 
> Everything that I have heard about Erie has been good. I have never heard a bad word about them. The agent is pretty good, as well. She has a Virginia licence, as well. Progressive does have a reputation for being high, despite what its advertisements claim.
> 
> Progressive does not cover for rideshare, that is true. If you look elsewhere on this topic, I did post something about what is alleged to be Progressive's attitude toward their insureds' doing TNC work. I do not know if it is true, I have nothing in writing to back up the claim, all that I know is that more than one poster on these boards has stated that while they will not pay if you hit something while logged on to a TNC application, the will not drop you, either. Mind you, this is only hearsay. I can not back up this. I am surprised to learn that they write for taxicabs. Thank you for the information. They do not write for taxicabs in the District of Columbia. This whole business of writing for vehicles used to carry passengers for compensation is a niche market within the District, anyhow. Most of the language in the appropriate law has not been revised since it took effect in 1938. The last major national insurer that wrote for taxicabs in the District of Columbia was Liberty Mutual, which pulled out in the mid-1980s. I do not know what Erie submitted to the Commission on Insurance, Securities and Banking (or whatever that agency's name is this week) to get into the market, here, but it is the only one that writes for TNC work for District registered vehicles.
> 
> According to Metromile's website, they are admitted in seven states: California, Illinois, New Jersey, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Washington. If you get there from the Google, point and click to "INSURANCE" and scroll down pretty far. It will show on a map and list the states where they offer policies. Perhaps someone has failed to update the website. Virginia is a recent admission.
> 
> He says that his agent does. There should be something about it on the declaration page or the insuring agreement, but, if it does exist in black and white and it has State Farms name on it, he can hold them to it. For now, I am taking his word for it. He did state that his agent is going to send it to him and that he will post it here. I can see where he might need a little time to get it in hand. If it does not show up after a few weeks, there goes his whole topic. I really do not think that the Original Poster has any reason to lie about the existence of the memorandum, nor does his agent.


Not saying he's lying, merely saying what is in the policy is ALL that matters in a claim. 
SF was heavily involved in getting a bill pushed which would allow them to refuse coverage for phase one liability. An internal memorandum means nothing as it is not contractual with the policy holder. A year or so ago, one of the companies had multiple email threads going about ridesharing, and it turned out they were discussing carpooling. Rideshare WAS in their policy, but it was actual RIDESHARE, non profit car pooling as defined in federal terms.


----------



## Tx rides

GlobalGramma said:


> USAA insured in Oregon. They do not have a TNC gap insurance, but the rep assured me that I would be covered by my existing policy unless I had accepted and was traveling to a Rider, or was en route with a rider. (So that means when I am online waiting for a ping.) Otherwise, Uber is responsible. I have a newer vehicle with comprehensive coverage.


I know they provide TNC gap coverage in TX. I thought they had very strict policies about TNC usage (which, of course makes sense, since they are selling that as a separate service) as I told another poster, don't just go by what someone tells you on the phone, what is in your policy is what counts.

This is from July....
http://www.praguepost.com/finance/48985-driver-beware-uber-and-the-oregon-insurance-gap


----------



## stuber

All these explanations about Uber's insurance are SO reassuring. I'll stick with commercial livery insurance.

Uber's cobbled together insurance scheme. What a scam!

...and now back to Jeopardy

Stuber-"I'll take Rideshare for $800 Alex.

Alex Trebec- "The answer is, "potentially litigious nightmare."

(STUBER BUZZES IN)

Stuber-"What is Uber X?"


----------



## Another Uber Driver

Tx rides said:


> Not saying he's lying, merely saying what is in the policy is ALL that matters in a claim.
> 
> An internal memorandum means nothing as it is not contractual with the policy holder.
> 
> A year or so ago, one of the companies had multiple email threads going about ridesharing, and it turned out they were discussing carpooling. Rideshare WAS in their policy, but it was actual RIDESHARE, non profit car pooling as defined in federal terms.


Not necessarily...................................

While the strictly "internal" memorandum might not mean anything, and while no memorandum is contractual, if the statement is issued to an agent with the knowledge that it will be disclosed to a policyholder and it states that it will cover TNC work or it contains clarifying language that it will cover for things such as Uber, a policyholder can hold the insurer to it. If the black and white lacks language specifying conditions, the insured can hold the insurer to it. If the black and white states conditions that the insured meets, he can hold the insurer to it. If the insured does not meet the conditions, if stated, the insurer is off the proverbial hook. It will be interesting to see just how the memorandum reads. It will mean nothing without something on it that identifies it as Official Word of State Farm.

The example that you cite is one of miscommunication and confusing language. I seem to recall, but am too lazy to search the topic right now, that the Original Poster did mention "livery". The question to which this would give rise is what does State Farm call "livery"? What does the State of Missouri call "livery"?


----------



## Tx rides

Another Uber Driver said:


> Not necessarily...................................
> 
> While the strictly "internal" memorandum might not mean anything, and while no memorandum is contractual, if the statement is issued to an agent with the knowledge that it will be disclosed to a policyholder and it states that it will cover TNC work or it contains clarifying language that it will cover for things such as Uber, a policyholder can hold the insurer to it. If the black and white lacks language specifying conditions, the insured can hold the insurer to it. If the black and white states conditions that the insured meets, he can hold the insurer to it. If the insured does not meet the conditions, if stated, the insurer is off the proverbial hook. It will be interesting to see just how the memorandum reads. It will mean nothing without something on it that identifies it as Official Word of State Farm.
> 
> The example that you cite is one of miscommunication and confusing language. I seem to recall, but am too lazy to search the topic right now, that the Original Poster did mention "livery". The question to which this would give rise is what does State Farm call "livery"? What does the State of Missouri call "livery"?


Livery....commercial car service....the concepts are the same across the industry and the policies are generally clear thus means commercial car service. The new TNC language merely addresses the unique situation where a software platform covers SOME of the coverage for drivers who may, or may not be using their vehicle commercially at the time of an accident. Not one insurer has argued that the service is not commercial, or that the coverage could be lower because it is a personal vehicle. The common goal has been to keep customers who are usually just driving to work, but have absolutely no responsibility during a commercial claim.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

Tx rides said:


> Livery....commercial car service....the concepts are the same across the industry and the policies are generally clear thus means commercial car service.
> 
> The new TNC language merely addresses the unique situation where a software platform covers SOME of the coverage for drivers who may, or may not be using their vehicle commercially at the time of an accident.
> 
> Not one insurer has argued that the service is not commercial, or that the coverage could be lower because it is a personal vehicle. The common goal has been to keep customers who are usually just driving to work, but have absolutely no responsibility during a commercial claim.


I am having a hard time understanding the first quoted sentence. If I am reading your intention correctly, you are attempting to define "livery" as "commercial car service". I do not disagree with that. What makes me want to wait to see what the Original Poster says that he will post is the "part time" to which he keeps referring. Perhaps I failed to make myself clear on that.

I am missing something on the second quoted sentence. I think that I can see where you are trying to go with it, but, before I address it, I do need a better understanding of what you are trying to state.

I am trying to figure out the foundation for the last two quoted sentences. I think that I know it, but................

Let me try to illustrate something with my own situation:

1. The transporting of passengers in a motor-vehicle for compensation always has been a so-called "niche market" in the District of Columbia. Thus, for my taxicab, I purchase liability insurance from a carrier that writes only for taxicabs, black cars, limousines, handicapped vans and jitneys. Only one of these carriers writes for collision/comprehensive/fire and theft (fortunately, that is my carrier). The others farm it out to Bankers' Independent. There are some vehicle types for which Bankers' Independent will not write. They must go to L.E. Harris, which is the top Excess and Surplus agency for this area. But, I stray. I can purchase only State Minimum liability limits. No carrier sells policies with higher limits to taxicabs (even though more than a few of us have been screaming for those for years). The result of this is that I go to one carrier for my taxicab, a small, local carrier. There is no large or National carrier that writes for taxicabs in the District of Columbia.

2. Recently, a National carrier made available in the District of Columbia an endorsement to a liability/full coverage policy for TNC work. The endorsement accomplishes several things:

A. It is an acknowledgement on the part of the carrier that the insured vehicle does carry passengers for compensation, Thus, as the carrier is fully aware, and has been made so by the insured, it will continue to insure the vehicle despite its being used to carry passengers for compensation.

B. It provides secondary coverage in the event of a loss that occurs while logged on to the TNC platform that is in excess of the TNC provided policy's limits.

C. It provides coverage in the event of a loss that occurs while logged on to the TNC platform to which the TNC provided policy will not respond.

D. It provides primary coverage in the event of a loss that occurs while not logged on to a TNC platform.

In addition, this policy with TNC endorsement still allows me to purchase higher limits of liability and a lower deuctible for physical damage.

The carrier did ask if TNC was my full time job. I responded that it was not, that my full time job was driving another vehicle for which it did not sell policies in the District of Columbia. That satisfied the carrier. I added that I did have documentation for the other vehicle, should it be necessary. They responded that for now, it was not. The key words are "for now". I am assuming that in the event of a loss, they will want documentation that I am not driving their insured vehicle full time, or, documentation for the other vehicle, or both.

What I am getting out of this is that some of the national carriers are willing to insure TNC vehicles as long as:

1.  The vehicle is not full time in this service.

2. There is another policy in place that provides primary coverage while the vehicle is in actual TNC service.

..........and..........

3. This makes their coverage secondary while the vehicle is in actual TNC service.

What I have been getting out of the Rumour Mill, and this for some time, is that while some carriers may not want to write for TNC work, they do not care if the vehicle is used for that, as long as it is with the understanding that if there is a loss while the vehicle is in actual TNC service, said carrier is not on the hook.

Still, the insurance business for TNCs is not on firm ground in many jurisdictions. Much of this is the fault of the TNCs. The TNCs supposedly provide this so-called "policy". It is there, in black and white, so that when regulators, politicians, the public or the Fourth Estate start asking questions, the TNCs can point to it. Application, however, is what we Yankees refer to as "_*a hoss uvva' diff'rint cullah*_".

While I have no personal experience with this, and hope that I never do, several posters to these boards have stated that they have had such experience. To read what they post, they submit the claim to the TNC's carrier and the first thing that said carrier does is tell them to submit the claim to their own insurer first. This, where local or state law _*SPECIFICALLY*_ states that the TNC coverage must be primary. As soon as the driver's insurer reads the police report (if not, before) it a) denies the claim for violation of the "hire" exclusion and b) drops the insured, or, at best, non-renews. Once the denial comes through, the TNC insurer will respond, but the driver is still sitting there with no car, now, as the insurance is cancelled, the state has taken the licence plates and has towed the car because it can not sit around in the open with no licence plates.

The regulators do need to intervene and make sure that the TNCs are following the law with regard to the TNC provided policy's responding immediately. Further, the insurers need to make it clear what they will do if an insured uses a vehicle for TNC work. Each carrier really should issue a statement that reads (pick one):

1. We do not insure for TNC work. We will not insure your vehicle if you do TNC work with it. If we learn that you are doing TNC work, we will drop/non-renew your policy.

2. We do not insure for TNC work. We will continue to carry you if you use your vehicle for it, but, if we will deny any claim arising from your use of the insured vehicle for TNC work. We will pay any valid claim resulting from your use of the vehicle for personal purposes. The mere being logged on to a TNC platform is by definition using the vehicle for TNC work.

3. We do insure for TNC work. The insured must, however, purchase an endorsement for that. If the insured has purchased such an endorsement, we will pay any valid claim resulting from the use of the insured vehicle for TNC work subject to the conditions of the policy and applicable endorsements. If the insured fails to purchase such an endorsement, we will deny any claim arising from the use of the insured vehicle for TNC work and possibly drop/non-renew, at our discretion (or the carrier could state that it will, in fact, drop/non-renew--no discretion involved).

4. We sell commercial policies. If an insured wants to do TNC work, he must purchase one.

The carrier, of course, can add any conditions such as full or part time work, mileage limitations, or whatever.

Despite the claims of the TNCs that there is insurance, the whole matter is still questionable.


----------



## Tx rides

Another Uber Driver said:


> I am having a hard time understanding the first quoted sentence. If I am reading your intention correctly, you are attempting to define "livery" as "commercial car service". I do not disagree with that. What makes me want to wait to see what the Original Poster says that he will post is the "part time" to which he keeps referring. Perhaps I failed to make myself clear on that.
> 
> I am missing something on the second quoted sentence. I think that I can see where you are trying to go with it, but, before I address it, I do need a better understanding of what you are trying to state.
> 
> I am trying to figure out the foundation for the last two quoted sentences. I think that I know it, but................
> 
> Let me try to illustrate something with my own situation:
> 
> 1. The transporting of passengers in a motor-vehicle for compensation always has been a so-called "niche market" in the District of Columbia. Thus, for my taxicab, I purchase liability insurance from a carrier that writes only for taxicabs, black cars, limousines, handicapped vans and jitneys. Only one of these carriers writes for collision/comprehensive/fire and theft (fortunately, that is my carrier). The others farm it out to Bankers' Independent. There are some vehicle types for which Bankers' Independent will not write. They must go to L.E. Harris, which is the top Excess and Surplus agency for this area. But, I stray. I can purchase only State Minimum liability limits. No carrier sells policies with higher limits to taxicabs (even though more than a few of us have been screaming for those for years). The result of this is that I go to one carrier for my taxicab, a small, local carrier. There is no large or National carrier that writes for taxicabs in the District of Columbia.
> 
> 2. Recently, a National carrier made available in the District of Columbia an endorsement to a liability/full coverage policy for TNC work. The endorsement accomplishes several things:
> 
> A. It is an acknowledgement on the part of the carrier that the insured vehicle does carry passengers for compensation, Thus, as the carrier is fully aware, and has been made so by the insured, it will continue to insure the vehicle despite its being used to carry passengers for compensation.
> 
> B. It provides secondary coverage in the event of a loss that occurs while logged on to the TNC platform that is in excess of the TNC provided policy's limits.
> 
> C. It provides coverage in the event of a loss that occurs while logged on to the TNC platform to which the TNC provided policy will not respond.
> 
> D. It provides primary coverage in the event of a loss that occurs while not logged on to a TNC platform.
> 
> In addition, this policy with TNC endorsement still allows me to purchase higher limits of liability and a lower deuctible for physical damage.
> 
> The carrier did ask if TNC was my full time job. I responded that it was not, that my full time job was driving another vehicle for which it did not sell policies in the District of Columbia. That satisfied the carrier. I added that I did have documentation for the other vehicle, should it be necessary. They responded that for now, it was not. The key words are "for now". I am assuming that in the event of a loss, they will want documentation that I am not driving their insured vehicle full time, or, documentation for the other vehicle, or both.
> 
> What I am getting out of this is that some of the national carriers are willing to insure TNC vehicles as long as:
> 
> 1. The vehicle is not full time in this service.
> 
> 2. There is another policy in place that provides primary coverage while the vehicle is in actual TNC service.
> 
> ..........and..........
> 
> 3. This makes their coverage secondary while the vehicle is in actual TNC service.
> 
> What I have been getting out of the Rumour Mill, and this for some time, is that while some carriers may not want to write for TNC work, they do not care if the vehicle is used for that, as long as it is with the understanding that if there is a loss while the vehicle is in actual TNC service, said carrier is not on the hook.
> 
> Still, the insurance business for TNCs is not on firm ground in many jurisdictions. Much of this is the fault of the TNCs. The TNCs supposedly provide this so-called "policy". It is there, in black and white, so that when regulators, politicians, the public or the Fourth Estate start asking questions, the TNCs can point to it. Application, however, is what we Yankees refer to as "_*a hoss uvva' diff'rint cullah*_".
> 
> While I have no personal experience with this, and hope that I never do, several posters to these boards have stated that they have had such experience. To read what they post, they submit the claim to the TNC's carrier and the first thing that said carrier does is tell them to submit the claim to their own insurer first. This, where local or state law _*SPECIFICALLY*_ states that the TNC coverage must be primary. As soon as the driver's insurer reads the police report (if not, before) it a) denies the claim for violation of the "hire" exclusion and b) drops the insured, or, at best, non-renews. Once the denial comes through, the TNC insurer will respond, but the driver is still sitting there with no car, now, as the insurance is cancelled, the state has taken the licence plates and has towed the car because it can not sit around in the open with no licence plates.
> 
> The regulators do need to intervene and make sure that the TNCs are following the law with regard to the TNC provided policy's responding immediately. Further, the insurers need to make it clear what they will do if an insured uses a vehicle for TNC work. Each carrier really should issue a statement that reads (pick one):
> 
> 1. We do not insure for TNC work. We will not insure your vehicle if you do TNC work with it. If we learn that you are doing TNC work, we will drop/non-renew your policy.
> 
> 2. We do not insure for TNC work. We will continue to carry you if you use your vehicle for it, but, if we will deny any claim arising from your use of the insured vehicle for TNC work. We will pay any valid claim resulting from your use of the vehicle for personal purposes. The mere being logged on to a TNC platform is by definition using the vehicle for TNC work.
> 
> 3. We do insure for TNC work. The insured must, however, purchase an endorsement for that. If the insured has purchased such an endorsement, we will pay any valid claim resulting from the use of the insured vehicle for TNC work subject to the conditions of the policy and applicable endorsements. If the insured fails to purchase such an endorsement, we will deny any claim arising from the use of the insured vehicle for TNC work and possibly drop/non-renew, at our discretion (or the carrier could state that it will, in fact, drop/non-renew--no discretion involved).
> 
> 4. We sell commercial policies. If an insured wants to do TNC work, he must purchase one.
> 
> The carrier, of course, can add any conditions such as full or part time work, mileage limitations, or whatever.
> 
> Despite the claims of the TNCs that there is insurance, the whole matter is still questionable.


That is a long post, and generally worth much more than what I had to give at the present moment... I will try to respond more later, but in short: insurers should not have to redefine commercial use, they are only doing so in order to keep their existing customer base who may be opting to provide commercial car service through various networks. In other words, they want to protect themselves, and their base, but in no way do they wish to assume more risks.

ANYone can be a "TNC driver. My husband was technically a "TNC driver" when he first started his car service. He had a town car and a mobile dispatch system. I don't know a single black car company which isn't a TNC provider. There is no difference between what we do, and what an Uber driver does, in terms of vehicle use or risk. Insurers know that small operators can easily claim to have been on personal business if no pax was in the car.

Your suggested verbiage is close to what most are adopting.


----------



## Ziggy

There is no thing as "part time" commercial coverage ... if you're driving 1 hour a week or 40 hours a week, you're still FHV ... and if you don't have the correct insurance or addendum then your insurance carrier will cancel your policy and you not only won't be able to drive for Uber ... but you also won't be able to drive period. *similarly, there's no such thing as a part-time criminal ... do the crime, do the time.


----------



## Tx rides

Another Uber Driver said:


> I am having a hard time understanding the first quoted sentence. If I am reading your intention correctly, you are attempting to define "livery" as "commercial car service". I do not disagree with that. What makes me want to wait to see what the Original Poster says that he will post is the "part time" to which he keeps referring. Perhaps I failed to make myself clear on that.
> 
> I am missing something on the second quoted sentence. I think that I can see where you are trying to go with it, but, before I address it, I do need a better understanding of what you are trying to state.
> 
> I am trying to figure out the foundation for the last two quoted sentences. I think that I know it, but................
> 
> Let me try to illustrate something with my own situation:
> 
> 1. The transporting of passengers in a motor-vehicle for compensation always has been a so-called "niche market" in the District of Columbia. Thus, for my taxicab, I purchase liability insurance from a carrier that writes only for taxicabs, black cars, limousines, handicapped vans and jitneys. Only one of these carriers writes for collision/comprehensive/fire and theft (fortunately, that is my carrier). The others farm it out to Bankers' Independent. There are some vehicle types for which Bankers' Independent will not write. They must go to L.E. Harris, which is the top Excess and Surplus agency for this area. But, I stray. I can purchase only State Minimum liability limits. No carrier sells policies with higher limits to taxicabs (even though more than a few of us have been screaming for those for years). The result of this is that I go to one carrier for my taxicab, a small, local carrier. There is no large or National carrier that writes for taxicabs in the District of Columbia.
> 
> 2. Recently, a National carrier made available in the District of Columbia an endorsement to a liability/full coverage policy for TNC work. The endorsement accomplishes several things:
> 
> A. It is an acknowledgement on the part of the carrier that the insured vehicle does carry passengers for compensation, Thus, as the carrier is fully aware, and has been made so by the insured, it will continue to insure the vehicle despite its being used to carry passengers for compensation.
> 
> B. It provides secondary coverage in the event of a loss that occurs while logged on to the TNC platform that is in excess of the TNC provided policy's limits.
> 
> C. It provides coverage in the event of a loss that occurs while logged on to the TNC platform to which the TNC provided policy will not respond.
> 
> D. It provides primary coverage in the event of a loss that occurs while not logged on to a TNC platform.
> 
> In addition, this policy with TNC endorsement still allows me to purchase higher limits of liability and a lower deuctible for physical damage.
> 
> The carrier did ask if TNC was my full time job. I responded that it was not, that my full time job was driving another vehicle for which it did not sell policies in the District of Columbia. That satisfied the carrier. I added that I did have documentation for the other vehicle, should it be necessary. They responded that for now, it was not. The key words are "for now". I am assuming that in the event of a loss, they will want documentation that I am not driving their insured vehicle full time, or, documentation for the other vehicle, or both.
> 
> What I am getting out of this is that some of the national carriers are willing to insure TNC vehicles as long as:
> 
> 1. The vehicle is not full time in this service.
> 
> 2. There is another policy in place that provides primary coverage while the vehicle is in actual TNC service.
> 
> ..........and..........
> 
> 3. This makes their coverage secondary while the vehicle is in actual TNC service.
> 
> What I have been getting out of the Rumour Mill, and this for some time, is that while some carriers may not want to write for TNC work, they do not care if the vehicle is used for that, as long as it is with the understanding that if there is a loss while the vehicle is in actual TNC service, said carrier is not on the hook.
> 
> Still, the insurance business for TNCs is not on firm ground in many jurisdictions. Much of this is the fault of the TNCs. The TNCs supposedly provide this so-called "policy". It is there, in black and white, so that when regulators, politicians, the public or the Fourth Estate start asking questions, the TNCs can point to it. Application, however, is what we Yankees refer to as "_*a hoss uvva' diff'rint cullah*_".
> 
> While I have no personal experience with this, and hope that I never do, several posters to these boards have stated that they have had such experience. To read what they post, they submit the claim to the TNC's carrier and the first thing that said carrier does is tell them to submit the claim to their own insurer first. This, where local or state law _*SPECIFICALLY*_ states that the TNC coverage must be primary. As soon as the driver's insurer reads the police report (if not, before) it a) denies the claim for violation of the "hire" exclusion and b) drops the insured, or, at best, non-renews. Once the denial comes through, the TNC insurer will respond, but the driver is still sitting there with no car, now, as the insurance is cancelled, the state has taken the licence plates and has towed the car because it can not sit around in the open with no licence plates.
> 
> The regulators do need to intervene and make sure that the TNCs are following the law with regard to the TNC provided policy's responding immediately. Further, the insurers need to make it clear what they will do if an insured uses a vehicle for TNC work. Each carrier really should issue a statement that reads (pick one):
> 
> 1. We do not insure for TNC work. We will not insure your vehicle if you do TNC work with it. If we learn that you are doing TNC work, we will drop/non-renew your policy.
> 
> 2. We do not insure for TNC work. We will continue to carry you if you use your vehicle for it, but, if we will deny any claim arising from your use of the insured vehicle for TNC work. We will pay any valid claim resulting from your use of the vehicle for personal purposes. The mere being logged on to a TNC platform is by definition using the vehicle for TNC work.
> 
> 3. We do insure for TNC work. The insured must, however, purchase an endorsement for that. If the insured has purchased such an endorsement, we will pay any valid claim resulting from the use of the insured vehicle for TNC work subject to the conditions of the policy and applicable endorsements. If the insured fails to purchase such an endorsement, we will deny any claim arising from the use of the insured vehicle for TNC work and possibly drop/non-renew, at our discretion (or the carrier could state that it will, in fact, drop/non-renew--no discretion involved).
> 
> 4. We sell commercial policies. If an insured wants to do TNC work, he must purchase one.
> 
> The carrier, of course, can add any conditions such as full or part time work, mileage limitations, or whatever.
> 
> Despite the claims of the TNCs that there is insurance, the whole matter is still questionable.


BTW, the "part time" acceptance most likely means they will not drop him from personal coverage, I do not believe for one minute it means they would cover him in a commercially related incident since he only did commercial service part time. No insurance company would do that, my god they'd go broke, because everyone would be a part-time driver for hire! Lol!!!


----------



## Another Uber Driver

Tx rides said:


> That is a long post, in short: insurers should not have to redefine commercial use, they are only doing so in order to keep their existing customer base who may be opting to provide commercial car service through various networks. In other words, they want to protect themselves, and their base, but in no way do they wish to assume more risks.


I have a reputation to maintain..................................

At any rate, I think that I now understand where you were going in some of your statements that were not quite clear to me,

I do not disagree with your statement that an insurer should not have to re-define "commerical use". It appears that they are being pushed into it by their insureds, as they are seeing more and more people doing this sort of work. If the carriers were to do a wholesale cancellation/non-renewal of policyholders who did TNC work, it would severely reduce their income. If the carriers stuck to this line, they would have to jack up their premiums to the remaining policyholders, who might seek coverage elsewhere. It would start another rate war, to be sure. In any business, the provider must keep up with the demands of his market. Any businessman who will not rise to meet the demands of his market is doomed to failure. In fact, the initial refusal of the taxicab business to respond to the demands of its market is what helped give rise to the TNCs and almost destroyed the cab business.

The one thing on which I *might* disagree, and I stress the "might", is the lack of willingness to assume more risks. The insurers will assume more risks, as long as the insured is willing to pay. My current carrier for the Uber car is assuming another risk by insuring it for TNC work. It simply charges me more for my policy. I understand that it must charge me more, and pay accordingly. If I am not willing to pay, I need not do TNC work.

The last, of course, could make me an exception. While I would shy even from betting the telephone bill on it, I would not be surprised to learn that a significant majority (65%-80%) o the TNC drivers here have not purchased, nor have any plans to purchase appropriate coverage for this sort of work. G.E.I.CO sells a rideshare endorsement in the State of Maryland and the Commonwealth of Virginia. Metromile's website states that it sells policies in the Commonwealth of Virginia, although another poster to this topic is indicating that his experience is different. Erie offers a rideshare endorsement in the District of Columbia. Thus, there is no excuse for lack of proper insurance in Washington Metropolitan Area if you plan to do TNC work. You can purchase something in all three jurisdictions. It is an expense necessary to the proper conduct of your chosen business.


----------



## Tx rides

Another Uber Driver said:


> I have a reputation to maintain..................................
> 
> At any rate, I think that I now understand where you were going in some of your statements that were not quite clear to me,
> 
> I do not disagree with your statement that an insurer should not have to re-define "commerical use". It appears that they are being pushed into it by their insureds, as they are seeing more and more people doing this sort of work. If the carriers were to do a wholesale cancellation/non-renewal of policyholders who did TNC work, it would severely reduce their income. If the carriers stuck to this line, they would have to jack up their premiums to the remaining policyholders, who might seek coverage elsewhere. It would start another rate war, to be sure. In any business, the provider must keep up with the demands of his market. Any businessman who will not rise to meet the demands of his market is doomed to failure. In fact, the initial refusal of the taxicab business to respond to the demands of its market is what helped give rise to the TNCs and almost destroyed the cab business.
> 
> The one thing on which I *might* disagree, and I stress the "might", is the lack of willingness to assume more risks. The insurers will assume more risks, as long as the insured is willing to pay. My current carrier for the Uber car is assuming another risk by insuring it for TNC work. It simply charges me more for my policy. I understand that it must charge me more, and pay accordingly. If I am not willing to pay, I need not do TNC work.
> 
> The last, of course, could make me an exception. While I would shy even from betting the telephone bill on it, I would not be surprised to learn that a significant majority (65%-80%) o the TNC drivers here have not purchased, nor have any plans to purchase appropriate coverage for this sort of work. G.E.I.CO sells a rideshare endorsement in the State of Maryland and the Commonwealth of Virginia. Metromile's website states that it sells policies in the Commonwealth of Virginia, although another poster to this topic is indicating that his experience is different. Erie offers a rideshare endorsement in the District of Columbia. Thus, there is no excuse for lack of proper insurance in Washington Metropolitan Area if you plan to do TNC work. You can purchase something in all three jurisdictions. It is an expense necessary to the proper conduct of your chosen business.


Agree. Wholeheartedly ! 
(When I said they were not willing to assume the risk, I did mean to imply at the same rate)
Just like health insurance, people have always run uncovered (it can't happen to me). I don't think there are many regulations which will eradicate that tendency. Anyone who owns a home or any other asset, and runs this service without solid, verified commercial gap coverage is a fool. This is a peanut pay part time job. Why risk your future to make some software execs filthy rich? I don't get it. God, we don't even expect our chauffeurs to pay for any of the necessary tools, and we sure as hell have them covered in the event of an accident. That includes their own personal injuries. I truly cannot understand why anyone goes along with this.


----------



## New2This

I just got my car through Xchange Leasing. I got my Geico policy, technically called Business Automobile Insurance on the forms I have. Someone asked what the numbers were: 100/300/50 limits, $500 deductible. $200 down, $150/month

I was speaking with the Geico rep about where they currently offer rideshare coverage. Right now it's CT, GA, MD, OH, PA, SC, TX & VA. Other states may be coming down the road. If you're in one of those states & want to get some questions answered, PM me here & I'll introduce you to him. He's very sharp & has written several hundred of these policies.



Another Uber Driver said:


> It is an expense necessary to the proper conduct of your chosen business.


He is dead on here. It IS an expense. Uber didn't put a gun to anyone's head so we chose to do this, and since you're getting a 1099 from Uber, it's a business. Whether it's profitable business or not is another debate, but if you're not doing something to cover yourself, you're a fool.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

Ziggy said:


> There is no thing as "part time" commercial coverage ... if you're driving 1 hour a week or 40 hours a week, you're still FHV ... and if you don't have the correct insurance or addendum then your insurance carrier will cancel your policy and you not only won't be able to drive for Uber ... but you also won't be able to drive period.


^^^....as a rule, yes, but the Original Poster is asserting something a bit different. Take a butcher's at Tx rides post below quoted. We had a bit of an exchange earlier to-day, but as both of us had something to do, we could not give the responses the time that they merited. In fact, I missed the whole point of her reply this morning, as I was did not have quite the time to give it the attention that it deserves (deserved).\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/



Tx rides said:


> *1. *"part time" acceptance most likely means they will not drop him from personal coverage,
> 
> *2. *I do not believe for one minute it means they would cover him in a commercially related incident since he only did commercial service part time


1. This is _*precisely*_ what the Original Poster is asserting. If he is trying to state that State Farm will cover him in the event of a loss while logged on to the Uber platform or is transporting any passenger for compensation, I did not get that out of any of his posts. What I get from his posts is that he is stating that State Farm will not drop him if he does TNC work, as long as he does not do that full time. I would assume that the exclusion for paying a claim arising from commercial use would stand. Keep in mind, I _*almost *__*NEVER*_ agree with the Original Poster on anything. What he is getting into here could have quite an impact for TNC drivers at least in Missouri, if not in other places.

The Original Poster is stating that when he is logged on to the Uber platform, James River is providing coverage for whatever periods that it does in St. Louis. He asserts that State Farm provides coverage when he is not logged on to the Uber platform. If he is involved in a loss while logged on, his recourse is to James River. If he is involved in a loss while not logged on, his recourse is to State Farm. If there is a period that James River does not cover while he is logged on, he is SCREWBERED, as State Farm will not cover while logged on.

In most places and most cases, if you are using your vehicle for TNC work and do not have the proper endorsements to the policy, the insurer will drop you or non-renew you. The thing that will have the greatest impact from this topic is that there is an insurer that is documented not to drop or non-renew you if you do TNC work. This assumes that the Original Poster can produce his documentation. An insurer that will not drop you is something new.

2. ............and I do not think that the Original Poster is asserting this. What I get out of it is that he is asserting that James River covers a loss that occurs while he is logged on to the Uber Platform. State Farm covers a loss that occurs while not logged on to the Uber platform.

It does seem curious, as insurers tend to rate private car policies based on miles driven. If you are driving TNC even part time, you are putting more miles on your car, thus increasing the chance of a loss. The last is referred to as a "hazard". It would be a reversal of usual practice that an insurer would retain a policyholder at the same rate with the presence of a hazard. While the insurer would be off the hook if the loss occurs while logged on, there is nothing that would support any contention that a loss is more likely to occur when logged on over logged off.

Extrapolating from Ziggy's statement, there is no such thing as a "part-time hazard".



New2This said:


> 100/300/50 limits, $500 deductible.
> 
> Geico where currently offer rideshare coverage. Right now it's CT, GA, MD, OH, PA, SC, TX & VA.
> 
> if you're not doing something to cover yourself, you're a fool.


You have almost the same limits that I do. The Bodily Injury is the same, as is the deductible for Physical Damage. Your property damage is fifty thousand less than mine, but I suppose that is important only if you decide to T-bone a Seven Hundred Series BMW, a Maybach or an antique while running a red light at eighty miles per hour......either that or you decide to drive in to a Burger King for takeout---LITERALLY.

Thank you for the information on where you can buy coverage for TNC work. It appears that there are thirteen states and the District of Columbia.

1. California-Metromile
2. Connecticut-GEICO
3. District of Columbia-Erie
4. Georgia-GEICO
5. Illinois-Metromile
6. Maryland-GEICO
7. New Jersey-Metromile
8. Ohio-GEICO
9. Oregon-Metromile
10. Pennsylvania-GEICO and Metromile
11. South Carolina-GEICO
12. Texas-GEICO
13. Virginia-GEICO and Metromile
14. Washington-Metromile

Two states give you a choice of companies, although the last quoted poster stated that he could not get a quote from Metromile's website on a Virginia policy but did receive a statement that coverage is not available in Virginia. Elsewhere on Metromile's website, it does state that policies are available in Virginia. The only jurisdiction where I am aware the Erie offers rideshare endorsements is the District of Columbia.

Is there any Uber or Lyft driver out there in Virginia who has Metromile and can give us some numbers?

If there is anyone else out there who knows of a state not above listed where TNC/rideshare endorsements are available, if you could post it and some numbers, that would help me become informed and other drivers become informed where to purchase proper insurance.

As I have stated, as the last quoted poster has stated, and, as others posting to this topic and elswhere on these boards have stated, if you can buy the proper coverage for this where you live, DO IT. If you have anything of value, you could lose it. Further, many states will suspend your licence if you have an unsatisfied judgement arising from your involvement in a motor vehicle collision. Some states do have Unsatisfied Judgement Funds, but, again, almost all of those states will suspend your licence until you re-imburse the Fund for whatever it pays out to a claimant. Further, most states will require that you purchase an SR-22 as a condition for re-instatement once an Unsatisfied Judgement is satisfied. The state often makes you purchase the SR-22 for five years, minimum, after re-instatement, as well. Thus, even if you are "judgement proof", you still stand to lose something.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

MA is USAA. The OP is in the same boat as everyone who does not have this TNC gap. I'm glad people are getting it, buying it and spreading the word. Everyone else, like the OP in MO who does not have it is screwed.


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## Another Uber Driver

5 Star Guy said:


> MA is USAA.


That makes fourteen states and the District of Columbia.
15. Massachusetts: USAA

Does anyone know if USAA offers a TNC endorsement in other states?

As I understand it, you must be military or civilian employee of the military/DOD to purchase USAA policies. Does this extend to DOT, as the Coast Guard is part of DOT, these days? Does it extend to employees of DOD/military contractors?


----------



## 5 Star Guy

Another Uber Driver said:


> That makes fourteen states and the District of Columbia.
> 15. Massachusetts: USAA
> 
> Does anyone know if USAA offers a TNC endorsement in other states?
> 
> As I understand it, you must be military or civilian employee of the military/DOD to purchase USAA policies. Does this extend to DOT, as the Coast Guard is part of DOT, these days? Does it extend to employees of DOD/military contractors?


USCG is now under DHS. I believe you could get a better rate with those departments, it is open to the public.


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## Mike T

As an Insurance agent for over 30 years. In the end, the answer is -First - deal with an experienced AND smart agent. Second- If it is not in writing, it
does not apply. Correct insurance for rideshare drivers will provide a certificate that details the coverage provided. Mercury Insurance provides that certificate with the person's name, policy number, effective date and the year, make model and last 5 digits of the VIN.


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## Jared Wallace

So I have a TNC policy from Geico. My deductible is 250, as I don't normally have enough cash on hand to absorb a higher one. If I get in an accident while driving in period 3, and judged to be my fault, am I stuck with Uber's sky high 1000 dollar deductible? Do any of y'all know if there's any way to get around that?


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## Mike T

Jared, The biggest problem first is having Geico insurance. They are hard core about not covering TNC drivers and will cancel you if they find out.
To answer your question, With a company that provides proper TNC/rideshare driver coverage(I know about in Arizona with Mercury Insurance- check a Texas Mercury agent), your company will cover the difference between Uber's 1000 deductible and your 250 deductible. In other words, you will have a 250 deductible. Contact me with questions.


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## ATX 22

USAA coverage can be obtained in Texas and Colorado as well.


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## Another Uber Driver

Mike T said:


> Jared, The biggest problem first is having Geico insurance. They are hard core about not covering TNC drivers and will cancel you if they find out.


G.E.I.CO offers TNC/rideshare endorsements in several states, one of which is Tejas. As he purchased the endorsement, G.E.I.CO will not drop him.
In what states does Mercury offer TNC/rideshare endorsements? I am assuming that Arizona is one. Now we are up to fifteen states and the District of Columbia where drivers can purchase rideshare/TNC endorsements.



5 Star Guy said:


> it is open to the public.


Thank you for the information on USAA


----------



## Another Uber Driver

ATX 22 said:


> USAA coverage can be obtained in Texas and Colorado as well.


.........for TNC/rideshare?


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## Ziggy

Another Uber Driver said:


> Texas-GEICO


You forgot ... USAA (which was the 1st carrier to offer Rideshare coverage in TX) *of course, you have to be: military or veteran (or their respective dependants)


----------



## Jared Wallace

Mike T said:


> Jared, The biggest problem first is having Geico insurance. They are hard core about not covering TNC drivers and will cancel you if they find out.
> To answer your question, With a company that provides proper TNC/rideshare driver coverage(I know about in Arizona with Mercury Insurance- check a Texas Mercury agent), your company will cover the difference between Uber's 1000 deductible and your 250 deductible. In other words, you will have a 250 deductible. Contact me with questions.


As AnotherUberDriver mentioned, I do have Geico's official blessing to rideshare, courtesy of their new TNC commercial insurance. Good to know that my deductible will remain 250 though


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## Another Uber Driver

Ziggy said:


> You forgot ... USAA (which was the 1st carrier to offer Rideshare coverage in TX) *of course, you have to be: military or veteran (or their respective dependants)


Thank you, we can add Tejas to the list of states where there is a choice, which means that now there are three in that category.

Another poster has stated that USAA now takes anyone that it considers insurable. He suspects that it might be at a higher rate.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

I believe a higher rate if you aren't affiliated with the armed services and government agencies. They offer a well deserved discount. That's what I understood on their website today. They are in MA and other states and at least in MA there isn't fine print on who is eligible and didn't notice any mention on their website.


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## Mike T

Jared Wallace said:


> As AnotherUberDriver mentioned, I do have Geico's official blessing to rideshare, courtesy of their new TNC commercial insurance. Good to know that my deductible will remain 250 though


Jared, Did you get the new Geico policy that adds the TNC coverage?


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## Ziggy

BTW, I believe in over-insuring vs. under-insuring.
Here's my USAA coverage:
1Mil/500K/1Mil (500 deductible; 250 ded Un/Under)


----------



## Ziggy

Jared Wallace said:


> I do have Geico's official blessing to rideshare, courtesy of their new TNC commercial insurance


I'm quite sure that GEICO's TNC insurance is not Commercial Insurance; but rather Gap coverage for when Uber/Lyft is not primary. Commercial insurance would give the same coverage that limo/taxi/black have ... and TNC Gap does not.


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## Mike T

Ziggy said:


> BTW, I believe in over-insuring vs. under-insuring.
> Here's my USAA coverage:
> 1Mil/500K/1Mil (500 deductible; 250 ded Un/Under)


Ziggy, Nice coverage however, I'm in Arizona and can only write here. Try a Mercury Agent in Texas.


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## Ziggy

Another Uber Driver said:


> Another poster has stated that USAA now takes anyone that it considers insurable


I'd check out the "Who Can Join" link (here) ... answer the questions on the left and you'll get a phone number to call


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## Ziggy

Mike T said:


> Try a Mercury Agent in Texas.


I'll stick with USAA (thanks) ... I'd be giving up too many veteran benefits to switch. And USAA has done right by me for many years


----------



## Another Uber Driver

Ziggy said:


> I'll stick with USAA (thanks) ... I'd be giving up too many veteran benefits to switch. And USAA has done right by me for many years


I have yet to hear a bad word about USAA. All of their policyholders love them, from what I have heard.

Back when I was a cab company insurance official, they were easy to deal with when one of my drivers hit one of theirs.


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## New2This

Ziggy said:


> I'm quite sure that GEICO's TNC insurance is not Commercial Insurance; but rather Gap coverage for when Uber/Lyft is not primary. Commercial insurance would give the same coverage that limo/taxi/black have ... and TNC Gap does not.


I have the new Geico rideshare policy. It is commercial. I asked the agent I've been dealing with about adding my non uberworthy car for a discount & he said I'd have to call their personal lines agents. He said it wouldn't count for a discount as this is a commercial policy.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

New2This said:


> I have the new Geico rideshare policy. It is commercial. I asked the agent I've been dealing with about adding my non uberworthy car for a discount & he said I'd have to call their personal lines agents. He said it wouldn't count for a discount as this is a commercial policy.


Thank you for that update.

I do not know if it is G.E.I.CO vs. Erie or The Commonwealth of Virginia vs. the District of Columbia.

I added my "non-uberworthy" car (to use your term) to the Erie policy and received a "additional vehicle" discount. My Declaration Page shows the Uber vehicle as rated "Business" and the other as "Pleasure". There are mileage limits on both, neither of which I expect to hit. Further, there is an endorsement to the policy that allows TNC work.

The taxi is not on the policy, as Erie does not insure taxicabs in the District of Columbia.

It appears that G.E.I.CO, at least in Virginia, is not adding the endorsement, but is writing a different policy altogether. This does not seem to me the best response to the market conditions, at least not from the consumer's point of view. Perhaps Corporate considers this the only way to do it. If you consider that most TNC drivers are very part time, an endorsement for a reasonable increase in premium would be the better way for the consumer. In most cases, the majority of use of the TNC vehicle is personal. While there would have to be some increase in premium to deal with the presence of the hazard, I do wonder why the need for a wholly different policy.


----------



## Ziggy

New2This said:


> I have the new Geico rideshare policy. It is commercial.


The true test if it's commercial would be that it would have a clause that permits you to p/u passengers without the TNC Rideshare app; and (hopefully) also permit you to p/u at airports (as some commercial underwriters prohibit airports).

And I'd be curious to know what your premium is.


----------



## New2This

A.U.D.-I agree. You'd think that if there was some kind of rider you could buy it'd make things easier. Given that they're bean counters, maybe they have their reasons. Or this is all so new (in the insurance world at least) they're taking their time to figure it out.



Ziggy said:


> The true test if it's commercial would be that it would have a clause that permits you to p/u passengers without the TNC Rideshare app; and (hopefully) also permit you to p/u at airports (as some commercial underwriters prohibit airports).
> 
> And I'd be curious to know what your premium is.


Mid 40's single male with immaculate driving record: Premium was $200 down, $150/month for full coverage on a 2016 Camry. I look through the policy & didn't see anything about airport exclusions. I'm guessing that there wouldn't be one since Geico knows that I'll be schlepping people to & fro the airport. (Had my first run to Dulles yesterday; probably the most $$$$ I'll ever make ubering lol) No mileage restrictions, but they will audit my odometer after a year to see how many miles I'm doing.

I may be dense here (after all I'm a Dallas fan remember) but why else would I pick people up without using Lyft/Uber?


----------



## Another Uber Driver

New2This said:


> (Had my first run to Dulles yesterday; probably the most $$$$ I'll ever make ubering lol)
> 
> why else would I pick people up without using Lyft/Uber?


I hope that you got it on a surge or you got another trip shortly afterward. I do not want Dulles trips on UberX, unless it is a surge or it is the only trip that I am going to run that day--the fare is far too low.

Some Uber drivers do pick up customers off the platform. They have them pay cash or use Square. This is called a "street hail". It is illegal almost everywhere. It is illegal everywhere in the Washington Metropolitan Area. If you get popped doing it, the police will issue you a summons and impound your vehicle. If Uber finds out, they will de-activate you without warning. This is one of the few regulations that Uber will support--they do not want their drivers to accept street hails.

ONLY if you are on Uber Taxi can you accept street hails. This is because taxicabs are licenced to accept street hails.


----------



## 5 Star Guy

My friend's sister just got hit by a Super driver, with a pax in MA. He changed his story several times and that's not the bad part. They both have the same insurance company and he reported it. This will be interesting to see the outcome. I think he should've contacted Super for their coverage since his insurance most likely does not know he is a driver. Stay tuned.


----------



## New2This

5 Star Guy said:


> My friend's sister just got hit by a Super driver, with a pax in MA. He changed his story several times and that's not the bad part. They both have the same insurance company and he reported it. This will be interesting to see the outcome. I think he should've contacted Super for their coverage since his insurance most likely does not know he is a driver. Stay tuned.


I hope she's ok.

Even if Uber/James River covers her, I bet he's gonna be screwed like a kid in a Penn State shower.

This was my first weekend schlepping drunks. After driving in D.C., especially AdMo & CoHi at club prime time, I have NO problems paying the Geico rideshare policy.

Rideshare policy: $150/month

Peace of mind: priceless


----------



## JJ/Uber/Miami

RamzFanz said:


> Apparently you don't because you can't even quote the period 2 story you parroted. I'm very interested in your period 2 claim. Any source will do.
> 
> I'm certainly not in denial, I went to the very source of my insurance and my coverage was confirmed. When I receive written confirmation, I will post it here and I'll be sure to include you.


Please do Ram, because according to some extensive research I have done on TNC/Rideshare insurance by State, there are zero companies that offer it in Missouri. It is currently not offered in Florida either, where I am from.

If I'm wrong and am proven so by your documentation, then I apologize. But in the meantime, please be extra cautious when driving passengers, because you don't want to be in for a rude awakening following an accident if you have to file a claim. Insurance legalities can be complicated and a complete nightmare for uneducated consumers. God Bless !!!!


----------



## Another Uber Driver

JJ/Uber/Miami said:


> Please do Ram, because according to some extensive research I have done on TNC/Rideshare insurance by State, there are zero companies that offer it in Missouri.


What I get out of the Original Poster's statements are that State Farm in Missouri will not drop him if he does TNC work, as long as it is "part-time"; however State Farm might define "part time". I do not get out of his statements that State Farm will cover him while he is hauling passengers for compensation. Marry, he expects that James River will cover him while he is hauling passengers for compensation or while he is en route to pick up a passenger assigned by the TNC application. Which one he expects to cover him during Period 1, the "Gap", the period while logged on but having no trip assigned, is not clear to me from his statements. Perhaps he can clear up this question.

What it appears the me that he is stating is that if he hits something while en route to fetch, or, carrying a paying passenger, State Farm will not pay; James River will. What I want to understand is who pays during Period 1? Several posters on uberpeopledotnet have stated that supposedly Progressive has a similar attitude toward it. Never have I been able to verify this from Progressive, mind you. Supposedly, Progressive's attitude is: "Do TNC work if you must. As long as you keep your TNC mileage at forty-nine per-cent of your total mileage, or less, we will not drop you. Do not, however, expect us to pay if you hit something while logged on to a TNC application. If you hit something while not logged in to a TNC application, we will pay." Keep in mind that this is _*rumour, ONLY; it is NOT verified*_ from Progressive or from any other insurer, agent or reliable source, at least not to me. I have NOT managed to check the authenticity, truth or reliability of this statement.

Someone finally made available TNC appropriate coverage in the District of Columbia. It was a carrier different from the one that I had. Fortunately and conveniently, my policy was expiring just as the appropriate coverage became available. I made the change. It cost me less than did the old policy from the other insurer.

One thing to keep in mind: almost _*NEVER*_ do I agree with the Original Poster. I will not get into the reasons, but he and I have had a few flame wars on these boards. Still, it appears that he might be on to something that is important to anyone out there driving who has half-an-ounce of brains. If so, he will be providing a valuable contribution and important information. I do not care who anyone is or what I might think of him. If he has something to contribute and can inform or edge-uh-mah-kayte me, I will accept his contribution and be glad to learn something from him. I am covered, personally, but I suspect that the majority of TNC drivers out there _*ain't*_--at least not properly.

Peace of mind for less money; how often does that happen?


----------



## JJ/Uber/Miami

Another Uber Driver said:


> What I get out of the Original Poster's statements are that State Farm in Missouri will not drop him if he does TNC work, as long as it is "part-time"; however State Farm might define "part time". I do not get out of his statements that State Farm will cover him while he is hauling passengers for compensation. Marry, he expects that James River will cover him while he is hauling passengers for compensation or while he is en route to pick up a passenger assigned by the TNC application. Which one he expects to cover him during Period 1, the "Gap", the period while logged on but having no trip assigned, is not clear to me from his statements. Perhaps he can clear up this question.
> 
> What it appears the me that he is stating is that if he hits something while en route to fetch, or, carrying a paying passenger, State Farm will not pay; James River will. What I want to understand is who pays during Period 1? Several posters on uberpeopledotnet have stated that supposedly Progressive has a similar attitude toward it. Never have I been able to verify this from Progressive, mind you. Supposedly, Progressive's attitude is: "Do TNC work if you must. As long as you keep your TNC mileage at forty-nine per-cent of your total mileage, or less, we will not drop you. Do not, however, expect us to pay if you hit something while logged on to a TNC application. If you hit something while not logged in to a TNC application, we will pay." Keep in mind that this is _*rumour, ONLY; it is NOT verified*_ from Progressive or from any other insurer, agent or reliable source, at least not to me. I have NOT managed to check the authenticity, truth or reliability of this statement.
> 
> Someone finally made available TNC appropriate coverage in the District of Columbia. It was a carrier different from the one that I had. Fortunately and conveniently, my policy was expiring just as the appropriate coverage became available. I made the change. It cost me less than did the old policy from the other insurer.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind: almost _*NEVER*_ do I agree with the Original Poster. I will not get into the reasons, but he and I have had a few flame wars on these boards. Still, it appears that he might be on to something that is important to anyone out there driving who has half-an-ounce of brains. If so, he will be providing a valuable contribution and important information. I do not care who anyone is or what I might think of him. If he has something to contribute and can inform or edge-uh-mah-kayte me, I will accept his contribution and be glad to learn something from him. I am covered, personally, but I suspect that the majority of TNC drivers out there _*ain't*_--at least not properly.
> 
> Peace of mind for less money; how often does that happen?


That's great Another. Although I stopped Ubering months ago because of unclear insurance concerns, rates, ratings, and several other reasons, I will think about returning if the rates and insurance issues are at a place where I can actually benefit. Somehow I doubt it, but I'm glad at least you have your ducks in a row. God Bless !!!!


----------



## Another Uber Driver

JJ/Uber/Miami said:


> I stopped Ubering months ago because of unclear insurance concerns, rates, ratings, and several other reasons,
> 
> I will think about returning if the rates and insurance issues are at a place where I can actually benefit.
> 
> Somehow I doubt it, but
> 
> I'm glad at least you have your ducks in a row. God Bless !!!!


I can not blame you for that. My information shows that no firm in Florida is offering any insurance for TNC work. Further, as I understand it, every insurer writing in Florida will drop you for doing TNC work unless you have a commercial policy. If you consider the cost of that, it is similar to spending five million dollars annually to protect ten million dollars worth of diamonds. At least in some places, some companies are realising this and offering a more realistic and economically feasible product to those in need of insurance.

If an insurer starts to write the correct policies in Florida, you should consider returning to work, at least enough to stay in the game. If there are changes, regulations, limitations and the like, it is harder to keep out people who are already in the game. This is one reason why I do it, but only enough to stay in the game.

As for the rates, I doubt that Uber or Lyft will put up any realistic rates in the near future, but, at some point they will have to, as they will lose drivers due to various causes. I could delineate them, and it would be in keeping with my reputation for cyberloquacity, but I get so angry when the forumBOT tells me that I have used too many characters....................

Thank you for your kind thoughts, etiam te benedicat Deus, I am glad that I had the opportunity to get them into the row.................


----------



## New2This

[SIZE=4 said:


> I am covered, personally, but I suspect that the majority of TNC drivers out there _*ain't*_--at least not properly.[/SIZE]


I did one ride today to an airport (yay surge) and was talking with the woman about my very short Ubering career. She brought up insurance. I explained how Uber insurance worked app on/going to rider/rider in car. Told her I had the Geico policy. The way she put it was "It seems like only Uber cares about the person in the back seat. The one in the front seat is on their own." Sharp lady lol.

I'm paraphrasing something I read, possibly in this thread, but I wonder if insurance will eventually be the Achilles Heel for Uber and not (or in addition to) the employee/IC debate.

If there are a few high profile accidents involving drivers with app on but no pings (when Uber says "Son you're on your own) and the Uber driver (or whomever they hit) is financially wiped out, and so because Uber's insurance doesn't cover and their insurance company declines the claim & drops them f0r Ubering because it's a violation of their policy.

Imagine the publicity: "Next on CNN- An Uber driver was in an accident, his insurance company refuses to pay and Uber refuses to pay. He's now living in his car that he can't drive because he can't get insurance. His story next!"

I could see state insurance commissions requiring either insurance companies to cover app on/no ping or requiring Uber/Lyft drivers to have a rideshare policy for when they're riding with the app on but no pings. The latter would be a benefit long term for drivers because:
1. It's protecting the drivers. Beating a dead horse here, if you're not adequately covered you're putting yourself at serious risk.
2. Less drivers driving because they don't have the proper insurance = more money (trips/surge) for those that are properly insured.

Given how long it takes bureaucrats to do anything I will probably be out of the Ubering game by the time this happens.

Uber's message to us:


----------



## Another Uber Driver

New2This said:


> "It seems like only Uber cares about the person in the back seat.
> 
> The one in the front seat is on their own."
> 
> Sharp lady lol.
> 
> I wonder if insurance will eventually be the Achilles Heel
> 
> If there are a few high profile accidents involving drivers with app on but no pings (when Uber says "Son you're on your own) and the Uber driver (or whomever they hit) is financially wiped out, and so because Uber's insurance doesn't cover and their insurance company declines the claim & drops them f0r Ubering because it's a violation of their policy.
> 
> Imagine the publicity: "Next on CNN- An Uber driver was in an accident, his insurance company refuses to pay and Uber refuses to pay. He's now living in his car that he can't drive because he can't get insurance. His story next!"
> 
> I could see state insurance commissions requiring either insurance companies to cover app on/no ping or requiring Uber/Lyft drivers to have a rideshare policy for when they're riding with the app on but no pings.


She is sharper than many, but, Uber does not care even about the person in the back seat until he stops summoning Ubers.

That always has been Uber's policy.

It could be, if for no other reason than the wrong person is in the back seat of the wrong UberX car driven by the wrong driver in the wrong place at the wrong time...............................................

Thank you for the laugh on the hypothetical CNN story. I doubt that it would have the effect that you and I both would prefer, but it might catch the public's attention for a minute.

Some states already require the TNCs to cover the gap. The policy does that only in states that require it. I could see some states' requiring drivers to purchase TNC insurance where it is available.


----------



## sellkatsell44

--ride sharing is a new thing. There hasn't been a large group of homogeneous um, precedent, that they can run mathematical numbers off of.

Basically insurance companies don't have something down where they can insure you, and cover you and know how much of the claims they'll actually have to pay out in order to know how much premium they can charge to be reasonable while still profitable after paying anticipated number of claims 

But I'm sure uber is big enough that some insurance company came along saying hey, I can help you with that.

I have taken an uber once, inside a yellow cab.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

We have not heard from the Original Poster since Page Eight and 8 January, thirteen days as of this posting, I would have thought that he would have had this "proof" that he stated was in existence and whose existence was supposedly "corroborated" by another poster, in his hands by now and that it would be available for our inspection.

Where is it, Original Poster?


----------



## Kater Gator

RamzFanz said:


> You lost me sir, where was I wrong?
> 
> My insurance does indeed cover me as long as I'm not full time.


Who is your insurance with? What state are you in?


----------



## Another Uber Driver

Kater Gator said:


> Who is your insurance with? What state are you in?


He is in Missouri, his carrier is State Farm.


----------



## JJ/Uber/Miami

Another Uber Driver said:


> We have not heard from the Original Poster since Page Eight and 8 January, thirteen days as of this posting, I would have thought that he would have had this "proof" that he stated was in existence and whose existence was supposedly "corroborated" by another poster, in his hands by now and that it would be available for our inspection.
> 
> Where is it, Original Poster?


I am waiting with breathless anticipation too...


----------



## RamzFanz

Another Uber Driver said:


> We have not heard from the Original Poster since Page Eight and 8 January, thirteen days as of this posting, I would have thought that he would have had this "proof" that he stated was in existence and whose existence was supposedly "corroborated" by another poster, in his hands by now and that it would be available for our inspection.
> 
> Where is it, Original Poster?


You can stop with the trolling. When my agent forwards it, I will post it. I never said it was in existence or that it was corroborated by anyone. HE claimed to have seen the actual memo that changed their definition, not me. I said that three drivers were all reporting being told the exact same thing, and that is part time TNC is not considered livery by State Farm corporate. At least two of us had agents who investigated and came back to us with that answer AFTER having thought otherwise initially. Do you really think that's just random coincidence?


----------



## JJ/Uber/Miami

RamzFanz said:


> You can stop with the trolling. When my agent forwards it, I will post it. I never said it was in existence or that it was corroborated by anyone. HE claimed to have seen the actual memo that changed their definition, not me. I said that three drivers were all reporting being told the exact same thing, and that is part time TNC is not considered livery by State Farm corporate. At least two of us had agents who investigated and came back to us with that answer AFTER having thought otherwise initially. Do you really think that's just random coincidence?


How long does it take to fax, email, or mail documentation of something so important?? You better be careful with Uber and this insurance thing, thinking your covered and you're not.

Memos within an organization discussing insurance changes is one thing. Coverage immortalized in an actual policy is another.


----------



## RamzFanz

JJ/Uber/Miami said:


> How long does it take to fax, email, or mail documentation of something so important?? You better be careful with Uber and this insurance thing, thinking your covered and you're not.
> 
> Memos within an organization discussing insurance changes is one thing. Coverage immortalized in an actual policy is another.


I don't need your advice, thanks. I have ensured I'm covered. When I have it, I'll post it.


----------



## JJ/Uber/Miami

RamzFanz said:


> I don't need your advice, thanks. I have ensured I'm covered. When I have it, I'll post it.


Excuse me Mr. Attitude, but being verbally insured is not the same thing. If you have ensured you're covered, you would already have the proof. Technology has given society the ability to have paperwork generated immediately. Just ask your insurance company. State Farm gave me mine the same day.


----------



## RamzFanz

JJ/Uber/Miami said:


> Excuse me Mr. Attitude, but being verbally insured is not the same thing. If you have ensured you're covered, you would already have the proof. Technology has given society the ability to have paperwork generated immediately. Just ask your insurance company. State Farm gave me mine the same day.


I'm just tired of people talking about my insurance when I've said many times, this thread is about Uber's coverage, not mine. I've done my due diligence and I'm covered.


----------



## JJ/Uber/Miami

RamzFanz said:


> I'm just tired of people talking about my insurance when I've said many times, this thread is about Uber's coverage, not mine. I've done my due diligence and I'm covered.


Uber's insurance is what is the problem here. I hope for your sake you are covered, but I'll leave it alone. Good luck.....


----------



## Another Uber Driver

RamzFanz said:


> You can stop with the trolling. When my agent forwards it, I will post it.


_*.....ain't no trollin' about it................*_or is your definition of "troll" someone who does not agree with ramzfanz?

Sixteen days have elapsed since this agent claimed to have had the doumentation. That is more than ample time to get it into your hands. Where is it?............or is your agent on Pitcairn Island?


----------



## RamzFanz

New2This said:


> If there are a few high profile accidents involving drivers with app on but no pings (when Uber says "Son you're on your own)


Only they don't say you're on your own. In all states you have at least their minimum liability coverage if your insurance won't cover you.



Another Uber Driver said:


> Sixteen days have elapsed since this agent claimed to have had the doumentation.


You're the king of misrepresentation and misinformation. I never said she had it in her hands. She has requested an official position. Stop trolling, you'll see it when I get it. this thread is not about my insurance, it was to clear up the false insurance rumors people like you continue to repeat. Did you even read the OP or documentation?


----------



## Another Uber Driver

RamzFanz said:


> this thread is not about my insurance,


.......as you have stated to more than one poster more than one time. I am aware of that.

Yes, the questions and statements about your own insurance have hijacked this topic. Keep in mind that it is your statements about this insurance that have contributed to this hijacking.

Here is the rub:

Not every carrier in every state is tolerant of its policyholders' doing TNC work while holding a private motor vehicle insurance policy. One, among several reasons, for that is that the additional miles driven, alone, presents a "hazard". In insurance parlance, a "hazard" is something that increases the possibility of a loss. More miles driven renders a higher chance of a collision which results in a loss. When confronted with a "hazard" an insurer _*usually*_ does one of two things: 1. It declines to insure the risk or 2. It charges an additional premium to cover the higher possibility of having to pay out on a loss. Thus, in most states and jurisdictions, an insurer will drop or non-renew a policyholder who does TNC work.

In some states and jurisdictions, an endorsement or policy is available to cover a policyholder who does TNC work. Mostly, but not in every case, mind you, what the endorsement, or even the policy does is acknowledge that the policyholder is doing TNC work and that the insurer will not drop the policyholder for doing this TNC work.

Along comes Mr. ramzfanz and posts something that tells everyone that his insurer will not drop someone who does TNC work as long as it is only "part time". Like it or not, Sirrah, you have something to contribute here, if, in fact, what you are stating is true. What you have to contribute is a way for UberX drivers to find some peace of mind by purchasing a policy from a carrier that will not drop them for doing TNC work. Further, this policy, at least what I get out of your posts, is a standard private motor vehicle policy; no endorsements or special policies required. All that anyone, who is worried about G.E.I.CO's, Progressive's, Hartford's or any other insurer's dropping or non-renewing him, need do is purchase a policy from State Farm similar to what he has from his current insurer. This assumes, again, that what you are stating is the case. This is quite the breakthrough, if it is true.

In states where a given insurer offers a TNC endorsement or policy, that same insurer will drop or non-renew anyone who does TNC work but has not purchased the appropriate endorsement or policy. In some jurisdictions, the additional premium is quite high. In others, it is not. If State Farm will insure someone who does TNC work "part time", that could mean major savings for UberX drivers---something _*extremely*_ important given the princely sums that Uber pays its drivers who work the UberX platform.

This is why "your" insurance has hijacked this topic. If what you are stating about "your" insurance is true, you have made quite an important contribution to the world of TNC work, be it intentional or unwitting. Even if State Farm were to take this position in Missouri, only, the dissemination of that information to UberX drivers in Missouri would impact a number of drivers in a positive fashion. I assume that there is more than one UberX driver in Missouri.

As for me, I will keep my Erie policy with the TNC endorsement. The cost is not that much--surprising since I am in the Big City and not the 'burbs. One thing, among several, that it does do is cover me if, for some reason, the James River policy will not respond. My interest in this is to make myself aware of what the insurance companies are doing with this TNC thing. Whether you care to admit it, or not, TNCs _*ain't been around that long*_. Thus, the firms that are impacted by it have yet to adapt to its presence. I am interested to see how they do it.


----------



## RamzFanz

UPDATE: My agent emailed today saying I was in fact covered fully during period 1 as State Farm does not define part time business activities, including food deliveries, eBay sales being dropped at the post office, or Uber, as livery or commercial, and the delay was because the Underwriters are wording the official policy to be distributed nationwide. They expect it soon.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

sellkatsell44 said:


> --ride sharing is a new thing. There hasn't been a large group of homogeneous um, precedent, that they can run mathematical numbers off of.
> 
> Basically insurance companies don't have something down where they can insure you, and cover you and know how much of the claims they'll actually have to pay out in order to know how much premium they can charge to be reasonable while still profitable after paying anticipated number of claims
> 
> But I'm sure uber is big enough that some insurance company came along saying hey, I can help you with that.
> 
> I have taken an uber once, inside a yellow cab.


"Ride sharing" is definitely not new. Call it anything you want. It's still FARE FOR HIRE. Insurance companies don't care how you summons for a ride or even pay for that ride. You can send smoke signals to call for a ride, for all they care. It's still COMMERCIAL DRIVING. I will guarantee that if you read your entire personal policy carefully, you will come across a phrase that states "not for agricultural or commercial use". Cabs, limos, buses, trains, planes and automobiles have been commercially insured for decades. Even that free courtesy shuttle at your local vehicle repair shop is commercially insured, and they give free transportation. The insurance companies know exactly what their doing. I just know many of them don't want to do business with Uber because Uber's primary insurance is James River. James River is a B rated insurer based in Bermuda. We will just see what happens in the next couple years. Don't be surprised to see dramatic increases in premiums. In this great sue happy country we live in, by now everyone has heard that Uber is worth $60 billion. That makes a lot of accident attorneys very happy. And the worse part, you're financially responsible for that drunk uninsured driver that caused the accident.


----------



## RamzFanz

SEAL Team 5 said:


> And the worse part, you're financially responsible for that drunk uninsured driver that caused the accident.


$1,000,000 in uninsured motorist coverage in periods 2 and 3 and secondary limited liability in periods 1. That's at minimum in all states. Have you read the certificates?

James River Insurance Company
6641 West Broad Street, Suite 300
Richmond, VA 23230

The investment holding group that includes Goldman Sachs is licensed in Bermuda, not James River.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

RamzFanz said:


> $1,000,000 in uninsured motorist coverage in periods 2 and 3 and secondary limited liability in periods 1. That's at minimum in all states. Have you read the certificates?
> 
> James River Insurance Company
> 6641 West Broad Street, Suite 300
> Richmond, VA 23230
> 
> The investment holding group that includes Goldman Sachs is licensed in Bermuda, not James River.


I've definitely read the Acords. They're still a B rated company which is not recommended, and ask the family of that little 6 year old girl killed in San Fran by an Uber driver over a year ago. Where's the insurance? Answer; still getting denied.


----------



## RamzFanz

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I've definitely read the Acords. They're still a B rated company which is not recommended, and ask the family of that little 6 year old girl killed in San Fran by an Uber driver over a year ago. Where's the insurance? Answer; still getting denied.


So far we've determined there actually is $1,000,000 in uninsured motorist coverage during periods 2 and 3, secondary LL uninsured motorist during period 1, and James River isn't based out of Bermuda, all claimed by you. If you have read them as you say, maybe you should know these things?

James River is actually an A- rated company, which is a rating considered excellent, and is not a typical insurance company, but a wholesaler that does supplemental insurance, typically commercial, which is what Uber pays for, just like the examples you gave would. You are also wrong about the family of the girl who has settled with Uber for the actions of the underinsured driver, despite them not ever claiming they insured the driver during period 1 at that time. The Uber driver they covered is up for criminal charges for his actions.

You can claim all day long Uber is not a good company, to which I would agree, but let's keep it real. I can't find a single case where the James River insurance hasn't paid out for actual covered drivers during actual covered periods. Do you have any examples or is this just conjecture?


----------



## SEAL Team 5

RamzFanz said:


> So far we've determined there actually is $1,000,000 in uninsured motorist coverage during periods 2 and 3, secondary LL uninsured motorist during period 1, and James River isn't based out of Bermuda, all claimed by you. If you have read them as you say, maybe you should know these things?
> 
> James River is actually an A- rated company, which is a rating considered excellent, and is not a typical insurance company, but a wholesaler that does supplemental insurance, typically commercial, which is what Uber pays for, just like the examples you gave would. You are also wrong about the family of the girl who has settled with Uber for the actions of the underinsured driver, despite them not ever claiming they insured the driver during period 1 at that time. The Uber driver they covered is up for criminal charges for his actions.
> 
> You can claim all day long Uber is not a good company, to which I would agree, but let's keep it real. I can't find a single case where the James River insurance hasn't paid out for actual covered drivers during actual covered periods. Do you have any examples or is this just conjecture?


fortune.com/2014/12/11uber-insurance-company


----------



## Another Uber Driver

RamzFanz said:


> I was in fact covered fully during period 1 as State Farm does not define part time business activities, including Uber, as livery or commercial, and the delay was because the Underwriters are wording the official policy to be distributed nationwide. They expect it soon.


Thank you for the update. Understandable, if National is going to issue an Official Statement. I would tend to doubt the "soon" or might wonder what their definition of "soon" might be, but that would not be on you, it would be more on State Farm. Allright, I can wait. Please let us know when you know. I am interested for the purposes of being informed. My Erie TNC endorsement covers me.



SEAL Team 5 said:


> I've definitely read the Acords. They're still a B rated company which is not recommended,


^^^^^Never mind, he stated it. His information agrees with what I found on both the James River and A.M. Best websites. \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/



RamzFanz said:


> James River is actually an A- rated company, which is a rating considered excellent, and is not a typical insurance company, but a wholesaler that does supplemental insurance, typically commercial,


It is not your "typical" insurance company for the reasons stated. Further, I suspect that the A- over A, A+ or A++ is also due partly to the capitalisation in comparison to "typical" insurance companies, e.g. the major Nationals. Still, I would suspect that the capitalisation/reserves are within tolerances compared to outstanding claims and claims paid, thus the "A" category rating as opposed to "B" category. James River may have been a "B" rated company at some point, I do not know (although I suppose a little painstaking research might provide an answer). If it was "B" at one point, then it has improved.

Anyhow, thanks for the information. If everything is as you state, this could earn State Farm many new policyholders, as it would be a company that has made an Official Statement that it will tolerate TNC work and will cover during Period One without any need for endorsements or special policies. I would still be curious as to what it defines as "part time" and would hope that it includes a definition of that in its Official Statement. If Erie and Your Nation's Capital is at all instructive, once Erie began to sell the TNC endorsement here, and for a modest cost, it earned many new policyholders. I am one, and, to hear the Uber representatives at the office tell it, there have been many more. Erie is the only company that offers a TNC endorsement in the District of Columbia. There are alternatives in the suburbs, but Erie is the only choice in the City for proper insurance for those who are doing TNC work. Please let us know when you get something.


----------



## RamzFanz

SEAL Team 5 said:


> fortune.com/2014/12/11uber-insurance-company


dead link.


----------



## RamzFanz

Another Uber Driver said:


> Erie is the only company that offers a TNC endorsement in the District of Columbia.


Interestingly, Erie is a subsidiary of James River.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

RamzFanz said:


> dead link.


Thanks for the update, I was looking at a couple years ago. Sorry for not being informed. At least drivers can feel a little assured.


----------



## RamzFanz

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Thanks for the update, I was looking at a couple years ago. Sorry for not being informed. At least drivers can feel a little assured.


Actually, I'm pretty sure that is the case that brought about the secondary limited liability from Uber during period 1. Why they don't just extend the $1,000,000 to all periods and adjust fares to pay for it, ending their gap nightmare, is beyond me. It's irresponsible and has legislators and insurance companies gunning for them.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

RamzFanz said:


> Interestingly, Erie is a subsidiary of James River.


Interesting, indeed. I was not aware of that. Thank you for the information. I wonder if this connexion combined with the Uber/James River connexion spurred Erie into offering the TNC endorsement in the District of Columbia and for so little cost.

Funny, too, child is rated A+, parent A-. That is for the P/C divisions. The L/H divisions carry an A rating. That used to be a quirk of the railroad business, back in the day, except sometimes the disparity in financial strength was quite wide. The parent railroad would have lousy credit and a lousy balance sheet on its own, but, the subsidiary's dividend payments carried the parent. Still, as you previously stated, parent is in a market that is quite different from child. In addition, parent is far from impaired.


----------



## New2This

RamzFanz said:


> Only they don't say you're on your own. In all states you have at least their minimum liability coverage if your insurance won't cover you.


Liability covers other party not me.

I'm an old Wile E. Coyote fan, so let's call my insurance company "Acme insurance Company" for this example.

I drive a new 2016 Camry. If I'm driving around with app on waiting for a ping (Period 1) & I get into an accident (my fault or not) without a proper TNC/rideshare policy because Acme doesn't offer them in my state, and considers Ubering to be against terms of my regular personal auto policy, I *AM* on my own.

Acme- Likely will deny the claim because I was violating the terms of my personal policy. So my collision/comprehensive coverage isn't going to fix my car.

Other driver's insurance- Likely will fight the claim, especially if they get wind that Acme isn't paying because I violated the terms of my policy.

Uber- Will provide *limited* (not much to be frank) liability but $0 collision/comprehensive

So again, I'm in Period 1 app on/no ping, I get into an accident and my car is banged up, neither Acme, other driver nor Uber covers it. Sure sounds like I'm on my own...

I'm switching my non Uberworthy hooptie from Progressive to Erie ($38/month; goodbye Flo) in VA. I told my agent about the Xchange lease/GEICO rideshare policy. He said he'd see what he could find comparable. I'll keep you guys posted.


----------



## RamzFanz

New2This said:


> I drive a new 2016 Camry.


A 2016 Camry? Please, for the love of all that is holy, don't UberX in a 2016 Camry.



New2This said:


> Other driver's insurance- Likely will fight the claim, especially if they get wind that Acme isn't paying because I violated the terms of my policy.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's the other driver's fault, your insurance and their position would play no part in the other driver's liability. I think we perceive insurance companies as fighting many or most claims. They actually don't. If it was dual fault, that may be a real issue though.

What I'm saying is you are not _completely_ on your own. What is offered may not be much, but it's not nothing. We completely agree this is the period you have to ensure you are covered.

There is also no injury coverage at all for the driver. To me, that's as big of an issue. Everyone involved has injury coverage at some level, in every period, other than the driver. I emailed Uber about this and they simply refused to answer the question.

I'm not a person who believes in regulations much, they tend to become a source of power instead of a protection, but TNC's need to be have mandated commercial coverage of everyone the entire time.

Another option for collision is self insurance. For example, I have a vehicle valued at $5,000. If I set aside $5,000, I can pocket the collision premium and solve the issue on my own.


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

RamzFanz said:


> There have been so many erroneous articles, blogs, posts, replies, and rumors on insurance while Ubering it has left a muddled picture on what you need and what Uber covers. I wanted to clear it all up if possible.
> 
> 
> When you are an approved Uber driver but not on the Uber app, your insurance is what you have privately.
> 
> When you are on the app but have no ping request or pax and get in an accident, your PRIMARY insurance, the company you will file any claim with first, is what you have privately.* If they refuse coverage or pay out $0, Uber has a SECONDARY policy that provides up to $50,000 for injury per person, up to $25,000 for property you damage that is not your own, up to $100,000 total LIABILITY insurance. That means it will pay for people who are hurt or property you damage, up to the limits, IF your insurance declines or pays out $0, and NOTHING for your car. This is where you would be crazy not to discuss this time period with your insurance carrier. Mine covers me during this period as long as it's not full time work. You need to check yours in your state.
> 
> If you have received and accepted a request and are on your way to pick up a pax, Uber is the PRIMARY insurance, the company you will file with. It's $1,000,000 in LIABILITY coverage only. That is, it will only cover other people and property, not your property, UNLESS you have collision coverage with your private insurance, then Uber WILL cover the cost of your car up to its current value after a $1,000 deductible. I do not know if it has medical for you also but will update this when I find out.
> 
> If you are carrying a pax, then the coverage is the same as above when you are driving to the pax. It ends when the pax exits the car, not just when you end trip on the app.
> *May vary by state.
> 
> _These are minimums in the US, your state may require better insurance from Uber._
> 
> _WARNINGS YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER:_
> 
> 
> If you do not have collision off the app through your private insurer, you do not have it on the app, at any time.
> 
> If you are driving to the pax or have a pax and get into an accident, file with Uber's insurance, not your own.
> 
> If you work Uber full time, you may not be covered for collision during the_ app on waiting for a ping_ period by your private carrier.
> 
> If you get in an accident and you're not covered, it can destroy you financially for life. Please, make sure your insurance covers you. I found out I was covered by calling my agent for clarification and saying I was _thinking_ of Ubering. She barely knew what Uber was and had to talk to corporate and me several times to understand I was covered by Uber except _app off_ and _app on waiting for a ping_. It is a weight off my shoulders to know I have insurance and collision at all times.
> You can see Uber's explanation here
> 
> You can look up your state certificate of insurance here
> 
> One caveat to private collision insurance: If you drive a low value car and have capital saved in preparation, it can often be wiser to be prepared to replace your car yourself rather than pay for collision coverage with a high deductible. You should do the math and see what works for you.


For the lawyers or drivers with some legal training or experience, how likely is it for pax and the drivers/pax in the other car to sue drivers of TNCs his personal assets in cases where TNC drivers are at fault?


----------



## Another Uber Driver

ClevelandUberRider said:


> For the lawyers or drivers with some legal training or experience, how likely is it for pax and the drivers/pax in the other car to sue drivers of TNCs his personal assets in cases where TNC drivers are at fault?


I have experience in the insurance business, especially taxicab insurance business.

The lawyers sue everyone: the cab company, the owner of the vehicle (in the case of a rented vehicle) and the driver. Anyone with his name on anything that is involved is a named party. Once the judgement is rendered, if it exceeds the policy limits, the plaintiff can proceed against the assets of any named party against whom a judgement is rendered. It does not happen often, as in the case of most drivers, it would cost the plaintiff more to get hold of the driver's paltry assets than what he could realise from liquidating them. In the District of Columbia, at least, if the lawyer wants to be a hard [posterior] about it, he can file a notice of an unsatisfied judgement and have the driver's licence suspended until he makes good on it. If the driver, or any named party, does have any assets worth seizing, the plaintiff could proceed against them.

I have seen this happen, but not often and only in the case of a really large judgement. You do not see too many of those here. You must recall that the average driving speed of a vehicle in constant urban traffic is sixteen to twenty-two miles per hour. Most of the collisions with which I dealt were low-impact. The only low impact collision with which I ever dealt where there was the potential of a large judgement involved one of my drivers' hitting a car driven by a professional concert pianist. He was elderly at the time, but clearly had more than a few years left in him. His fingers were injured to the point that he could not play again. He had his family's law firm of long standing, so it was not one of these TV ambulance chaser built-up cases. I was involved in the case as a representative of the cab company. The insurance companies wound up ponying up everything. The driver had nothing. He rented his cab, he rented his apartment, he had no money in the bank. In fact, he was several weeks behind to his fleet owner and had seen more than a few eviction notices for non-payment of rent. The plaintiff threatened to proceed against the cab company as did the plaintiff's insurance carrier. I threatened to have the company declare bankruptcy. My lawyer made them understand that no court would have a problem granting the petition. They backed down. With one or two exceptions (and my company was not one of them), given the choice between the balance sheet of a Colorado short line in the 1930s or a D.C. Cab company in the late twentieth to early twenty-first century, I would pick the Colorado railroad EVERY TIME.

There have been times when the insurance company has paid in excess of the limits simply to protect a good customer. The last cited case was one.


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

Another Uber Driver said:


> I have experience in the insurance business, especially taxicab insurance business.
> 
> The lawyers sue everyone: the cab company, the owner of the vehicle (in the case of a rented vehicle) and the driver. Anyone with his name on anything that is involved is a named party. Once the judgement is rendered, if it exceeds the policy limits, the plaintiff can proceed against the assets against any named party against whom a judgement is rendered. It does not happen often, as in the case of most drivers, it would cost the plaintiff more to get hold of the driver's paltry assets than what he could realise from liquidating them. In the District of Columbia, at least, if the lawyer wants to be a hard [posterior] about it, he can file a notice of an unsatisfied judgement and have the driver's licence suspended until he makes good on it. If the driver, or any named party, does have any assets worth seizing, the plaintiff could proceed against them.
> 
> I have seen this happen, but not often and only in the case of a really large judgement. You do not see too many of those here. You must recall that the average driving speed of a vehicle in constant urban traffic is sixteen to twenty-two miles per hour. Most of the collisions with which I dealt were low-impact. The only low impact collision with which I ever dealt where there was the potential of a large judgement involved one of my drivers' hitting a car driven by a professional concert pianist. He was elderly at the time, but clearly had more than a few years left in him. His fingers were injured to the point that he could not play again. He had his family's law firm of long standing, so it was not one of these TV ambulance chaser built-up cases. I was involved in the case as a representative of the cab company. The insurance companies wound up ponying up everything. The driver had nothing. He rented his cab, he rented his apartment, he had no money in the bank. In fact, he was several weeks behind to his fleet owner and had seen more than a few eviction notices for non-payment of rent. The plaintiff threatened to proceed against the cab company as did the plaintiff's insurance carrier. I threatened to have the company declare bankruptcy. My lawyer made them understand that no court would have a problem granting the petition. They backed down. With one or two exceptions (and my company was not one of them), given the choice between the balance sheet of a Colorado short line in the 1930s or a D.C. Cab company in the late twentieth to early twenty-first century, I would pick the Colorado railroad EVERY TIME.
> 
> There have been times when the insurance company has paid in excess of the limits simply to protect a good customer. The last cited case was one.


Thanks for a well wrtten and informative post on this issue!

I would venture that 20%-50% of posters here own their own homes. Some of them have paid off their mortgage, maybe 2%-10% of posters. Without spending the two minutes to check on this (because it is not important to discussion here), let's say the national median home price is $250K. That driver, with $250K market value of primary residence, all paid for, let's assume that driver has no other assets except the dented mid sized sedan he/she is Ubering with. With only $250K to his/her name BUT a very visible asset (primary residence being the biggest asset an average family owns) is he/she at a legal / financial risk for driving TNC IF an accident happens and that TNC driver is at fault and the other side hires experienced attorney(s) in this and sues for millions in pains and sufferings?


----------



## Another Uber Driver

ClevelandUberRider said:


> That driver, with $250K market value of primary residence, all paid for, let's assume that driver has no other assets except the dented mid sized sedan he/she is Ubering with. With only $250K to his/her name BUT a very visible asset (primary residence being the biggest asset an average family owns) is he/she at a legal / financial risk for driving TNC IF an accident happens and that TNC driver is at fault and the other side hires experienced attorney(s) in this and sues for millions in pains and sufferings?


In most jurisdictions, the person that you describe would be at risk of losing his home. In fact, anyone with more than twenty per-cent equity in his home is at risk. The plaintiff can proceed against the equity that you have in your home, or in any asset, for that matter. If you have less than twenty per-cent equity in your home, the plaintiff will not proceed against it, as once the expenses of the sale are paid, once the mortgage holder is paid, there is nothing left. The mortgage holder's lien has first place over any lien that the plaintiff would have.


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

Another Uber Driver said:


> In most jurisdictions, the person that you describe would be at risk of losing his home. In fact, anyone with more than twenty per-cent equity in his home is at risk. The plaintiff can proceed against the equity that you have in your home, or in any asset, for that matter. If you have less than twenty per-cent equity in your home, the plaintiff will not proceed against it, as once the expenses of the sale are paid, once the mortgage holder is paid, there is nothing left. The mortgage holder's lien has first place over any lien that the plaintiff would have.


So would you advise against anyone who has 20% or more equity in their avg American home not to drive for TNCs due to the huge liability inherent in this business?


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## Another Uber Driver

ClevelandUberRider said:


> So would you advise against anyone who has 20% or more equity in their avg American home not to drive for TNCs due to the huge liability inherent in this business?


Not necessarily. People who are that afraid of a catastrophe become agoraphobic. "I can not walk out of my house because a garbage truck might hit me, so I had better stay inside". Allright, what are you going to do if the garbage truck drives into the side of your house? Just as catastrophes in life are rare, catastrophic motor vehicle collisions are rare. Yes, you read about the worst ones on the newsnets, but for every one of those about which you read, there are two-hundred run of the mill fender benders and bumper thumpers.

Most legal actions arising from motor vehicle collisions are settled out of court for amounts far below the state minimum policy limits. In fact, in most places, there is a process through which both parties must go to avoid a trial: mediation, arbitration, pre-trial conference and similar. The last three occur after numerous telephone calls between the "trial lawyer" and the insurer Add to that the fact that the last thing that any "trial lawyer" wants is to go to trial.

Be the above as it may, it is not unwise to maintain a liability policy that has limits sufficient to protect your assets. My state minimums are 25/50/10, but I carry a policy with 100/300/100 limits. Bear in mind that Uber provides a policy with one million dollars in limits (I think that it is an aggregate limit, but I would need to check that). I have never seen a one-million dollar collision, but the potential is out there. In fact, it was rare that I saw a judgement go over state minimum policy limits. Most judgements that I have seen were under twenty thousand dollars for bodily injury.

So no, I would not tell anyone not to drive for compensation if he had over twenty per-cent equity in his house. Were I to do that, I might just as well tell him not to drive at all, as he could get into a catastrophic collision while driving his motor vehicle for personal use.

There is not necessarily a "huge" liability in "this business". What is there is something called a "hazard". A hazard is something that increases the likelihood of a loss. The more miles that you drive, the more likely it is that you will become involved in a collision which will give rise to a loss. If you drive people for compensation, or, even if you drive merchandise for compensation, you are driving more miles than the person who drives only for personal purposes. So, while the odds are greater that you will become involved in a collision, those same odds do not necessarily obtain when trying to determine the likelihood of a catastrophic collision. In most cases, your insurer's payout will be far below state minimum policy limits.


----------



## ClevelandUberRider

Another Uber Driver said:


> Not necessarily. People who are that afraid of a catastrophe become agoraphobic. "I can not walk out of my house because a garbage truck might hit me, so I had better stay inside". Allright, what are you going to do if the garbage truck drives into the side of your house? Just as catastrophes in life are rare, catastrophic motor vehicle collisions are rare. Yes, you read about the worst ones on the newsnets, but for every one of those about which you read, there are two-hundred run of the mill fender benders and bumper thumpers.
> 
> Most legal actions arising from motor vehicle collisions are settled out of court for amounts far below the state minimum policy limits. In fact, in most places, there is a process through which both parties must go to avoid a trial: mediation, arbitration, pre-trial conference and similar. The last three occur after numerous telephone calls between the "trial lawyer" and the insurer Add to that the fact that the last thing that any "trial lawyer" wants is to go to trial.
> 
> Be the above as it may, it is not unwise to maintain a liability policy that has limits sufficient to protect your assets. My state minimums are 25/50/10, but I carry a policy with 100/300/100 limits. Bear in mind that Uber provides a policy with one million dollars in limits (I think that it is an aggregate limit, but I would need to check that). I have never seen a one-million dollar collision, but the potential is out there. In fact, it was rare that I saw a judgement go over state minimum policy limits. Most judgements that I have seen were under twenty thousand dollars for bodily injury.
> 
> So no, I would not tell anyone not to drive for compensation if he had over twenty per-cent equity in his house. Were I to do that, I might just as well tell him not to drive at all, as he could get into a catastrophic collision while driving his motor vehicle for personal use.
> 
> There is not necessarily a "huge" liability in "this business". What is there is something called a "hazard". A hazard is something that increases the likelihood of a loss. The more miles that you drive, the more likely it is that you will become involved in a collision which will give rise to a loss. If you drive people for compensation, or, even if you drive merchandise for compensation, you are driving more miles than the person who drives only for personal purposes. So, while the odds are greater that you will become involved in a collision, those same odds do not necessarily obtain when trying to determine the likelihood of a catastrophic collision. In most cases, your insurer's payout will be far below state minimum policy limits.


Thank you for your detailed explanation. I always find your posts beneficial.

The concern about increased hazards is in my normal driving (business or personal) I avoid as much as possible crowded areas (for example DT during the day and bar hours or event days), probably no more than ten days in a year I had to drive in such road congestion (where pedestrians are just inches from your car and drivers zip in and out of lanes like crazy much more than they do in the burbs). But with TNC driving, one of the planned staging areas is DT during the work week. So it goes from ten days a year to 250 days in the congested DT area scenarios. The miles driven may increase by only five to ten times for the year (from 10K miles to 50K-100K miles per year), but the hours I will spend in crowded DT streets increase by a factor of 25.


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## Bachlover

My insurance company does not cover me when I am logged in to Uber and available. They do offer extra coverage in some states but NC is not one of them.


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## New2This

RamzFanz said:


> A 2016 Camry? Please, for the love of all that is holy, don't UberX in a 2016 Camry.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's the other driver's fault, your insurance and their position would play no part in the other driver's liability. I think we perceive insurance companies as fighting many or most claims. They actually don't. If it was dual fault, that may be a real issue though.
> 
> What I'm saying is you are not _completely_ on your own. What is offered may not be much, but it's not nothing. We completely agree this is the period you have to ensure you are covered.


No I am not using a brand spanking new Camry for this. That was just my example. The Camry on Xchange Lease would've been around $50/week more than what I pay now.

Regarding the insurance company contesting even if it's not my fault, I have read of times where insurance companies will use any loophole they can to get out of paying a claim/raise rates. My point was if you're doing something they consider against terms of your policy, they could conceivably use that as a reason to deny paying a claim.

When I have the app on & either on the way to pax or pax in car (Periods 2 & 3) I drive like granny for the reasons you stated. (I'm rarely driving around looking for pings in Period 1; I go to a surge area, wait until I'm in the middle of it then turn it on.) If I get into an accident, it's gonna be someone else's fault, so they're gonna cover my stuff. Worst case if they're uninsured I have that in my policy.


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## UbeRoBo

I driver Uber in Las Vegas. Liberty Mutual has outstanding TNC coverage. I have full collision & liability in phase one with a $250 deductable. 100,000/300,000 & 250,000/500,000 limits + a 1,000,000 blanket liability policy. Monthly rate is only $138 for the auto and $25 a month for the 1 Million dollar blanket liability coverage. That is for a $50,000 luxury automobile. Just switched over last night and am extremely pleased with coverage and rate I got.


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## Another Uber Driver

^^^^^^^^^^^Are you driving Uber Black, UberX or what Uber is it?


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## ClevelandUberRider

UbeRoBo said:


> I driver Uber in Las Vegas. Liberty Mutual has outstanding TNC coverage. I have full collision & liability in phase one with a $250 deductable. 100,000/300,000 & 250,000/500,000 limits + a 1,000,000 blanket liability policy. Monthly rate is only $138 for the auto and $25 a month for the 1 Million dollar blanket liability coverage. That is for a $50,000 luxury automobile. Just switched over last night and am extremely pleased with coverage and rate I got.


When you were signing up for the TNC coverage / telling them about your TNC, what is the number of TNC miles you told them you expect to put in/on over the upcoming one year?


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## MoneyUber4




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## Novus Caesar

In Georgia, at least where I am, Uber seems to cover me as the primary insurance both before and after I get a passenger, as long as the app is turned on, which I do the moment I leave the house: 

"

a. 
a. While logged onto the Uber application provided by Company but prior to being matched with a User, Company provides primary automobile liability insurance in the amount of $50,000 for death and bodily injury per person,
$100,000 for death and bodily injury per incident and $50,000 for property damage. This coverage is primary unless you maintain insurance designed for P2P or other commercial use while logged into the mobile application.

b. Beginning when a User request for transportation has been accepted within the Uber application and ending when the last requesting User departs from your vehicle, a trip is ended, or a trip is cancelled, whichever is later, Company provides primary automobile liability insurance in the amount of $1,000,000 for death, bodily injury and property damage. This coverage is primary and in addition to any insurance designed for commercial use you maintain. In addition, during this period Company provides Uninsured/Underinsured Motorist coverage in the amount of $1,000,000 for death, bodily injury and property damage and contingent Comprehensive and Collision coverage with a
$1,000 deductible.

"


----------



## RamzFanz

MoneyUber4 said:


>


I'm waiting for any of these people to show that Ubers are unsafe compared to private vehicles and that regulations actually improve that.

The commercial insurance lie about pizza drivers got a chuckle.

It's hilarious that people claim Uber uses "untrained drivers" when taxi drivers suck at driving and are mostly untrained in anything related to driving.


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## RamzFanz

Novus Caesar said:


> In Georgia, at least where I am, Uber seems to cover me as the primary insurance both before and after I get a passenger, as long as the app is turned on, which I do the moment I leave the house:
> 
> "
> 
> a.
> a. While logged onto the Uber application provided by Company but prior to being matched with a User, Company provides primary automobile liability insurance in the amount of $50,000 for death and bodily injury per person,
> $100,000 for death and bodily injury per incident and $50,000 for property damage. This coverage is primary unless you maintain insurance designed for P2P or other commercial use while logged into the mobile application.
> 
> b. Beginning when a User request for transportation has been accepted within the Uber application and ending when the last requesting User departs from your vehicle, a trip is ended, or a trip is cancelled, whichever is later, Company provides primary automobile liability insurance in the amount of $1,000,000 for death, bodily injury and property damage. This coverage is primary and in addition to any insurance designed for commercial use you maintain. In addition, during this period Company provides Uninsured/Underinsured Motorist coverage in the amount of $1,000,000 for death, bodily injury and property damage and contingent Comprehensive and Collision coverage with a
> $1,000 deductible.
> 
> "


Yes, in some states they carry primary liability for the driver in period 1. Just be aware this doesn't cover your injury or car and the liability could easily exceed the insurance. $50,000 for death and injury is peanuts in a multi car crash.


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## Novus Caesar

RamzFanz said:


> Yes, in some states they carry primary liability for the driver in period 1. Just be aware this doesn't cover your injury or car and the liability could easily exceed the insurance. $50,000 for death and injury is peanuts in a multi car crash.


It says it covers $50,000 for injury. "a. While logged onto the Uber application provided by Company but prior to being matched with a User, Company provides primary automobile liability insurance in the amount* of $50,000 for death and bodily injury per person*,"


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## Older Chauffeur

Novus Caesar said:


> It says it covers $50,000 for injury. "a. While logged onto the Uber application provided by Company but prior to being matched with a User, Company provides primary automobile liability insurance in the amount* of $50,000 for death and bodily injury per person*,"


It then appears In the second part of that sentence to limit that $50k per person to two people with the *$100,000 per incident.*
Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has lost a loved one, perhaps the breadwinner of a family. How far will that $50,000 go?


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## everythingsuber

Older Chauffeur said:


> It then appears In the second part of that sentence to limit that $50k per person to two people with the *$100,000 per incident.*
> Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has lost a loved one, perhaps the breadwinner of a family. How far will that $50,000 go?


Will cover the legal fees in chasing the driver for what's going to be owed.


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## Older Chauffeur

everythingsuber said:


> Will cover the legal fees in chasing the driver for what's going to be owed.


I'm guessing that somewhere in the fine print it says something about "defending against a lawsuit to the limits of the policy." In other words, they will pay the $50,000 w/o much of a fight, and then wash their hands of it. The driver is up the creek.
Interesting that Uber only ups the coverage for their clients (pax) but not for outsiders by themselves. However, the bottom line might be different once a sharp lawyer puts it before a judge/jury the way Uber set up that coverage. "So, Your Honor, Uber says my client's young husband's life was only worth $50,000, but if he had been a client of theirs and was killed in an accident, his widow could collect $100,000,000?" Imagine how that would sound.


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## MoneyUber4

RamzFanz said:


> I'm waiting for any of these people to show that Ubers are unsafe compared to private vehicles and that regulations actually improve that.
> 
> The commercial insurance lie about pizza drivers got a chuckle.
> 
> It's hilarious that people claim Uber uses "untrained drivers" when taxi drivers suck at driving and are mostly untrained in anything related to driving.


I believe, Drivers are getting to that point now ("Ubers are unsafe compared to private vehicles") - Uber drivers are not making enough to maintain their vehicles and they are cutting corners to keep driving. Wear and tear is now showing up on current vehicles and if drivers are making $250 - $300 per week to eat, that will not pay for "New Transmission" $5,000 - $7,000 - drivers are burning tires and everything else with their 100 - 225 miles per day.

I believe that some drivers are running their vehicles longer than is recommended to change oils, brakes and other parts. They are trying to survive with this illegal business. No jobs so you have to make any income.

Commercial insurance is a special auto liability coverage for a specific service. Uber drivers have no insurance and personal liability will not cover the illegal business. Uber insurance is an umbrella policy and not primary carrier in many cities and states. Ck with your insurance broker.

Knowledge is what Uber drivers need. 
Not a misleading concept that you can do business without any responsibility toward pax and people around you.

Law court does not care what other people believe but what is written on the books. If people has to go to jail, the court will say so.


----------



## RamzFanz

Novus Caesar said:


> It says it covers $50,000 for injury. "a. While logged onto the Uber application provided by Company but prior to being matched with a User, Company provides primary automobile liability insurance in the amount* of $50,000 for death and bodily injury per person*,"


It's Limited Liability coverage. It covers your liabilities, people you hurt and property you damage, not your injuries or property.


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## RamzFanz

MoneyUber4 said:


> Commercial insurance is a special auto liability coverage for a specific service. Uber drivers have no insurance and personal liability will not cover the illegal business. Uber insurance is an umbrella policy and not primary carrier in many cities and states.


Completely untrue. In periods 2 and 3 James River is the _primary commercial insurer_ with $1,000,000 in liability, $1,000,000 in uninsured motorist, and collision if you carry it personally.

Show me any period 1 or 2 Uber accident where James River didn't cover the driver up to the limits.


----------



## RamzFanz

Older Chauffeur said:


> I'm guessing that somewhere in the fine print it says something about "defending against a lawsuit to the limits of the policy." In other words, they will pay the $50,000 w/o much of a fight, and then wash their hands of it. The driver is up the creek.
> Interesting that Uber only ups the coverage for their clients (pax) but not for outsiders by themselves. However, the bottom line might be different once a sharp lawyer puts it before a judge/jury the way Uber set up that coverage. "So, Your Honor, Uber says my client's young husband's life was only worth $50,000, but if he had been a client of theirs and was killed in an accident, his widow could collect $100,000,000?" Imagine how that would sound.


In most states, it's your responsibility to cover period 1. Uber's is secondary and only applies if your insurance declines or pays zero. Yes, if you don't have insurance for period 1 as required by the agreement you signed, you are up the creek. You should get covered.


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## MoneyUber4

Call your Insurance broker tomorrow and let us know if that is right?

Uber is an Illegal business and many people do not want to accept it. If the Police is looking for drivers to arrest them. It is an Illegal business.


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## RamzFanz

MoneyUber4 said:


> Call your Insurance broker tomorrow and let us know if that is right?
> 
> Uber is an Illegal business and many people do not want to accept it. If the Police is looking for drivers to arrest them. It is an Illegal business.


My personal insurance is irrelevant during periods 2 and 3 as the James River insurance is my primary commercial coverage. And yes, I have discussed this at length with my agent and they agree. App off and period 1 is my personal insurance.

There's no guessing. It's not opinion. You have access to the actual state certificates. Go read them.

https://newsroom.uber.com/certificates-of-insurance-u-s-ridesharing/

And no, Uber is not an illegal business in most markets. There have been TNC regulations passed in many states that allow Uber legally. The question of their legal status in other areas is still in the courts.

The 29 states with TNC laws or regulations include: Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, District of Columbia, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin and Washington.


----------



## MoneyUber4

RamzFanz said:


> My personal insurance is irrelevant during periods 1 and 2 as the James River insurance is my primary commercial coverage. And yes, I have discussed this at length with my agent and they agree. App off and period 1 is my personal insurance.
> 
> There's no guessing. It's not opinion. You have access to the actual state certificates. Go read them.
> 
> https://newsroom.uber.com/certificates-of-insurance-u-s-ridesharing/
> 
> And no, Uber is not an illegal business in most markets. There have been TNC regulations passed in many states that allow Uber legally. The question of their legal status in other areas is still in the courts.
> 
> The 29 states with TNC laws or regulations include: Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, District of Columbia, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin and Washington.


I don't believe what ever Uber/Lyft post or says. They are not the law and as far as I know they don't own the States.

Their interest is not the drivers's interest. They can say and post what ever they want. And I quote their saying: "We have our partners back"
or "we care for our partners" If you want to believe on Mickey Mouse that is you but not every body.

I believe you. It seems that you have done your home work.

Which is your State? Personal Auto Insurance Carrier?


----------



## RamzFanz

MoneyUber4 said:


> I don't believe what ever Uber/Lyft post or says. They are not the law and as far as I know they don't own the States.
> 
> Their interest is not the drivers's interest. They can say and post what ever they want. And I quote their saying: "We have our partners back"
> or "we care for our partners" If you want to believe on Mickey Mouse that is you but not every body.
> 
> I believe you. It seems that you have done your home work.
> 
> Which is your State? Personal Auto Insurance Carrier?


I have State Farm in MO. They are willing to cover period 1 for a part time driver.


----------



## Teri Lynn

RamzFanz said:


> There have been so many erroneous articles, blogs, posts, replies, and rumors on insurance while Ubering it has left a muddled picture on what you need and what Uber covers. I wanted to clear it all up if possible.
> 
> 
> When you are an approved Uber driver but not on the Uber app, your insurance is what you have privately.
> 
> When you are on the app but have no ping request or pax and get in an accident, your PRIMARY insurance, the company you will file any claim with first, is what you have privately.* If they refuse coverage or pay out $0, Uber has a SECONDARY policy that provides up to $50,000 for injury per person, up to $25,000 for property you damage that is not your own, up to $100,000 total LIABILITY insurance. That means it will pay for people who are hurt or property you damage, up to the limits, IF your insurance declines or pays out $0, and NOTHING for your car. This is where you would be crazy not to discuss this time period with your insurance carrier. Mine covers me during this period as long as it's not full time work. You need to check yours in your state.
> 
> If you have received and accepted a request and are on your way to pick up a pax, Uber is the PRIMARY insurance, the company you will file with. It's $1,000,000 in LIABILITY coverage only. That is, it will only cover other people and property, not your property, UNLESS you have collision coverage with your private insurance, then Uber WILL cover the cost of your car up to its current value after a $1,000 deductible. I do not know if it has medical for you also but will update this when I find out.
> 
> If you are carrying a pax, then the coverage is the same as above when you are driving to the pax. It ends when the pax exits the car, not just when you end trip on the app.
> *May vary by state.
> 
> _These are minimums in the US, your state may require better insurance from Uber._
> 
> _WARNINGS YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER:_
> 
> 
> If you do not have collision off the app through your private insurer, you do not have it on the app, at any time.
> 
> If you are driving to the pax or have a pax and get into an accident, file with Uber's insurance, not your own.
> 
> If you work Uber full time, you may not be covered for collision during the_ app on waiting for a ping_ period by your private carrier.
> 
> If you get in an accident and you're not covered, it can destroy you financially for life. Please, make sure your insurance covers you. I found out I was covered by calling my agent for clarification and saying I was _thinking_ of Ubering. She barely knew what Uber was and had to talk to corporate and me several times to understand I was covered by Uber except _app off_ and _app on waiting for a ping_. It is a weight off my shoulders to know I have insurance and collision at all times.
> You can see Uber's explanation here
> 
> You can look up your state certificate of insurance here
> 
> One caveat to private collision insurance: If you drive a low value car and have capital saved in preparation, it can often be wiser to be prepared to replace your car yourself rather than pay for collision coverage with a high deductible. You should do the math and see what works for you.


Thanks. That was very well presented Have referred other people on other blogs to this site. TL


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## MoneyUber4

Teri Lynn said:


> Thanks. That was very well presented Have referred other people on other blogs to this site. TL


Always consult your Insurance Agent. They are the professionals and can talk about insurance. Uber insurance is an on/off policy and in many States, they don't serve as primary carrier. Uber also is NOT full coverage policy but an Umbrella policy.


----------



## Realityshark

MoneyUber4 said:


> Always consult your Insurance Agent.


Best advise ever! Why would anyone make decisions this important from information on a Uber drivers website?


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## Musical Insurance Guy

One thing that we have found is that because there are so many variations among state laws, advise given here on this forum may be accurate in one area, but not another. For this reason, even though you may be getting reasonably correct information on this forum, we strongly suggest that you check with your current personal car insurance people, to find out of you have any unknown 'gaps' in your insurance coverage. The time to find out you may not be well covered should not be when something bad happens!


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## Teri Lynn

MoneyUber4 said:


> Always consult your Insurance Agent. They are the professionals and can talk about insurance. Uber insurance is an on/off policy and in many States, they don't serve as primary carrier. Uber also is NOT full coverage policy but an Umbrella policy.


 There is just one point I need to get very clear in mind. Uber insurance covers the driver for medical injuries along with the pax? TL


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## Teri Lynn

RamzFanz said:


> I have State Farm in MO. They are willing to cover period 1 for a part time driver.


 There is just one thing I need to get clear in my mind. Uber insurance covers the expenses of the injured driver also and not just the pax, fault or no fault? TL


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## Musical Insurance Guy

RamzFanz said:


> I have State Farm in MO. They are willing to cover period 1 for a part time driver.


Hello RamzFanz, I was told by a State Farm agent here in Ohio a week or so ago, State Farm did not have ride share insurance in Ohio. As of January 2016, Insurance.com did not list State Farm as having ride share insurance anywhere. http://www.insurance.com/auto-insurance/coverage/insurance-rideshare-uber-lyft.html. If your agent said State Farm is "...willing to cover period 1 for a part time driver", If I was you, I'd get that in writing ASAP!


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## MoneyUber4

Musical Insurance Guy said:


> Hello RamzFanz, I was told by a State Farm agent here in Ohio a week or so ago, State Farm did not have ride share insurance in Ohio. As of January 2016, Insurance.com did not list State Farm as having ride share insurance anywhere. http://www.insurance.com/auto-insurance/coverage/insurance-rideshare-uber-lyft.html. If your agent said State Farm is "...willing to cover period 1 for a part time driver", If I was you, I'd get that in writing ASAP!


Thank you for your clarification.


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## ATX 22

http://www.propertycasualty360.com/2015/02/09/uh-ohuber-has-some-coverage-issues


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## RamzFanz

Teri Lynn said:


> There is just one thing I need to get clear in my mind. Uber insurance covers the expenses of the injured driver also and not just the pax, fault or no fault? TL


At no time do they cover the driver's injuries which is very important to know and act on.


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## ResIpsaUber

gman said:


> Nice write up but it doesn't apply in all places. For example, in CA and I believe many other places Uber is in fact primary in Period 1.
> 
> http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/Enforcement/TNC/TNC+Insurance+Requirements.htm


This is a direct link to the applicable statutes on the subject. Period 1 liability might be provided by a private insurance carrier under section 5434. The bottom line, is that you will be insured if you operate under Uber. If a million dollars is not enough, because, you, the driver, have substantial assets (ha ha!) you might consider getting an umbrella policy. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=puc&group=05001-06000&file=5430-5444


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## yojimboguy

My information from my State Farm (SF), who I've known for 20 plus years, says the following:

SF doesn't car if I drive for Uber, so long as I understand that SF's policy does not cover me at all when my Uber Partner app is running. As of today in Wisconsin, SF does not offer me any protection when the Uber app is on, which means that during what you folks are referring to as Period 1, I have NO collision coverage for my vehicle, from SF or from Uber.

I cannot speak to whether this is true in any other particular state.

As of April 15, about a month from now, SF will begin offering a modified policy for Uber drivers to cover at least Period 1. I don't know costs or other details, as my agent is waiting to receive them from corporate.


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## ResIpsaUber

I learned about Metromile through this website and this is what I use. They have a deal with Uber where they charge you by the mile for insurance, but not for time you are in Period 2 or Period 3. I doubled the amount of my insurance over my previous carrier with them. My new personal insurance is $250 deductible with a $250,000/$500,000 bodily injury max. The monthly cost of my insurance has now gone down.


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## Older Chauffeur

ResIpsaUber said:


> If a million dollars is not enough, because, you, the driver, have substantial assets (ha ha!) you might consider getting an umbrella policy. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=puc&group=05001-06000&file=5430-5444


This may not be true of other issuers of umbrella policies, but mine from the Automobile Club specifically excludes coverage for ride sharing services, and the carrying of passengers, food, newspapers, etc for charge, profit or compensation.
It refers to TNCs and actually names Uber, Lyft and Sidecar, and states that there is no coverage while the vehicle is available for hire by the public.
The policy is tied to my auto and home policies. Again, that may not the way other insurers write umbrella policies, but mine pretty much mirrors my auto policy with regard to coverage exclusions.


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## Salticid

In Michigan you are completely exposed during Period 1. Your personal insurance will not cover you, and Uber/Lyft coverage is minimal. In fact you'll be lucky if your personal insurance won't drop-kick you across the room once they learn you've been doing commercial work illegally.


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## RideGuy

here's the deal in simple terms. The moment you go online with the uber app and waiting for a ride request, you are covered under uber's liability insurance. There may be a good chance that your primary insurance coverage will not be effective while you are driving with the app turned on. Companies like USAA will not cover members operating under rideshare companies. Check with your insurance company to see if they have rideshare GAP insurance in your state. 

Once you accept a ride request - pick up passenger while online with the Uber app, Uber insurance will provide liability and collision coverage. Deductible responsibility of driver while online is $1000 either way. Be prepared.


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## Ubernic

RideGuy said:


> Companies like USAA will not cover members operating under rideshare companies.


False.


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## RamzFanz

Salticid said:


> In Michigan you are completely exposed during Period 1. Your personal insurance will not cover you, and Uber/Lyft coverage is minimal. In fact you'll be lucky if your personal insurance won't drop-kick you across the room once they learn you've been doing commercial work illegally.


Most insurances don't care, they just won't cover you. Geico is the only exception I know of.


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## 5 Star Guy

RideGuy said:


> here's the deal in simple terms. The moment you go online with the uber app and waiting for a ride request, you are covered under uber's liability insurance. There may be a good chance that your primary insurance coverage will not be effective while you are driving with the app turned on. Companies like USAA will not cover members operating under rideshare companies. Check with your insurance company to see if they have rideshare GAP insurance in your state.
> 
> Once you accept a ride request - pick up passenger while online with the Uber app, Uber insurance will provide liability and collision coverage. Deductible responsibility of driver while online is $1000 either way. Be prepared.


Sorry but your post is not accurate. You are not covered when you log into the app, only a few markets passed legislation to include that, maybe your market has. That is referred to as Period One. You are no longer covered by your personal insurance when using the app. Over half of the US now provides TNC Gap insurance, USAA is one of them who will cover you, however these companies don't cover it across the board so you need to Google to see if your state offers it and what company. Never contact your insurance company, Google it for news or search for companies that offer it. If the accident isn't your fault you go through their insurance. If they don't have insurance you go through Travass' insurance. If you have a pax, the pax will go through Travass' insurance. It does not cover for your medical bills or rental. Period Three pays up to 1M with a pax, Period Two pays less when you have a ping and not a pax. You could be screwed, especially when you think you are covered and you are not.


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## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> Sorry but your post is not accurate. You are not covered when you log into the app, only a few markets passed legislation to include that, maybe your market has. That is referred to as Period One. You are no longer covered by your personal insurance when using the app. Over half of the US now provides TNC Gap insurance, USAA is one of them who will cover you, however these companies don't cover it across the board so you need to Google to see if your state offers it and what company. Never contact your insurance company, Google it for news or search for companies that offer it. If the accident isn't your fault you go through their insurance. If they don't have insurance you go through Travass' insurance. If you have a pax, the pax will go through Travass' insurance. It does not cover for your medical bills or rental. Period Three pays up to 1M with a pax, Period Two pays less when you have a ping and not a pax. You could be screwed, especially when you think you are covered and you are not.


Nope, more misinformation. We've covered all of this before. Period 2 and 3 are the same. You do have period 1 insurance from Uber but it's limited liability and secondary in most states while in some it's primary.

You SHOULD contact your insurance company. There's no valid reason not to. If they are not TNC friendly, find one that is.

These are the minimums in the US.


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## RideGuy

5 Star Guy said:


> Sorry but your post is not accurate. You are not covered when you log into the app, only a few markets passed legislation to include that, maybe your market has. That is referred to as Period One. You are no longer covered by your personal insurance when using the app. Over half of the US now provides TNC Gap insurance, USAA is one of them who will cover you, however these companies don't cover it across the board so you need to Google to see if your state offers it and what company. Never contact your insurance company, Google it for news or search for companies that offer it. If the accident isn't your fault you go through their insurance. If they don't have insurance you go through Travass' insurance. If you have a pax, the pax will go through Travass' insurance. It does not cover for your medical bills or rental. Period Three pays up to 1M with a pax, Period Two pays less when you have a ping and not a pax. You could be screwed, especially when you think you are covered and you are not.


I have called USAA. You are saying the same thing I stated in my post. Here is what USAA told me. When you are logged on the Uber app, you are not covered under USAA policy. At that moment you are now under the Uber's insurance. USAA does provide GAP insurance but only in a few states. For me in Florida, USAA does NOT cover while operating online the Uber app. This information is not opinion, this is straight from USAA.


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## RideGuy

Ubernic said:


> False.


Uberic, you should do your research before responding with opinion. You are wrong. I was on the phone with USAA discussing this. USAA has a few pilot programs that vary by stated at this time to provide GAP insurance for UBER drivers. However, most insurance companies will not cover you while operating online the uber app. USAA is one of them. Look it up yourself on USAA's website and search for Uber drivers


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## 5 Star Guy

Google your state for TNC Gap insurance if it is available. Never contact your insurance company, there is no reason to. USAA offers TNC Gap in some states, maybe not in your state, at the moment. TNC Gap insurance is now offered in about half of the states. You are fully covered with TNC Gap insurance, the same coverage as when you are not logged in.


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## 5 Star Guy

RamzFanz said:


> Nope, more misinformation. We've covered all of this before. Period 2 and 3 are the same. You do have period 1 insurance from Uber but it's limited liability and secondary in most states while in some it's primary.
> 
> You SHOULD contact your insurance company. There's no valid reason not to. If they are not TNC friendly, find one that is.
> 
> These are the minimums in the US.
> 
> View attachment 43456


Not sure how you can say having some insurance is ok with you? When you are in an accident, no one cares what period you are in, they are going after you and whatever insurance you don't have. That and you are stuck paying for your own bills, if you're happy with that then good luck to you. There is no defense for not having the same amount of insurance you have for your personal policy, if anything it needs to be more.


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## UberBlackDriverLA

This is the truth...

There is no data or facts on what which insurance companies and under what circumstances insurance companies will drop you or raise your rates. It's all opinion.

One thing we know for certain is that Uber thrives in the grey area and puts hundreds of thousands of drivers at risk.

If the insurances risks were cystal clear, if the financial risks were crystal clear and if it was crystal clear how incredibly dangerous the job is, Uber would have very few drivers.

Uber relies on the confusion and ambiguous risks. That's the kind of company they are.


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## 5 Star Guy

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> This is the truth...
> 
> There is no data or facts on what which insurance companies and under what circumstances insurance companies will drop you or raise your rates. It's all opinion.
> 
> One thing we know for certain is that Uber thrives in the grey area and puts hundreds of thousands of drivers at risk.
> 
> If the insurances risks were cystal clear, if the financial risks were crystal clear and if it was crystal clear how incredibly dangerous the job is, Uber would have very few drivers.
> 
> Uber relies on the confusion and ambiguous risks. That's the kind of company they are.


Unfortunately it is clear, when you stop reading absurd infographics or advertising leading drivers to believe they are covered, when they are far from it. If anything like you said, it is intentional and like other marketing from other brands, they know people will believe it. Some of them are on here for some reason. If you are not fully covered, then you are not covered.


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## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> Not sure how you can say having some insurance is ok with you? When you are in an accident, no one cares what period you are in, they are going after you and whatever insurance you don't have. That and you are stuck paying for your own bills, if you're happy with that then good luck to you. There is no defense for not having the same amount of insurance you have for your personal policy, if anything it needs to be more.


I agree, we should have period 1 coverage.

That doesn't change the fact that we get free commercial insurance in the other periods.


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## UberBlackDriverLA

RamzFanz said:


> I agree, we should have period 1 coverage.
> 
> That doesn't change the fact that we get free commercial insurance in the other periods.


It's not free, Uber takes a safe ride fee and 25% of your fare.


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## SmarterRideShare

BurgerTiime said:


> If you get into an accident and file a claim with Uber, you must first prove 1: you are at fault 2: prove in writing to Uber your insurance will not cover the claim during the first period and THAT'S when your insurance will drop you like a brick!
> If you did not first seek approval to ride share from your insurance company you will never be insured again and be black listed. Without insurance your driving days are OVER! That's why smart drivers know to roam without trade dress on in case an accident does occur. It will ruin your life! If you have a loan on that vehicle and did NOT disclose your intentions to used as a commercial vehicle, THAT'S LOAN FRAUD! If you are in route to get a passenger and hit something and need to file a claim without a passenger, you'll file that claim to your own insurance company, right? That right there is insurance fraud! You where in route and conducting in a commercial endeavor. *Explained to me by a family friend who's has been doing auto insurance for 15 years.
> Also your loan may be deemed fraud and they came come take your vehicle. That's right! Remember you don't own that vehicle, the bank does and they are responsible for having proper insurance on that loan. This is something drivers fail to seek and it can cost them dearly. Do not buy into Ubers false insurance coverage for drivers. It's not in place to protect you, it's there for the passengers and that's why it's called "limited liability". More importantly, the new TOS UBER passengers sign when using the app omits any wrong doing and only provide a gateway to reserve a car and driver. They claim to just be a technology company (even though they are trying to put you all out of business with self driving cars) and that clause can land you in civil court. That passenger can sue your ass in cival court ruining your life further! I say get what you need to and get the hell out before anything bad happens. Driving for Uber or Lyft will not make you rich. You're only making them rich at your expense and your liability.


So true, They're getting rich off of us and at our expense, really playing us for the fool


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## RamzFanz

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> It's not free, Uber takes a safe ride fee and 25% of your fare.


The booking fee is a fee by Uber of the passenger and has nothing to do with you or your pay. It's on top of your rate and has nothing to do with you. They take that fee and buy your insurance so it's free to you.

Uber's fee to you has nothing to do with it.


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## 5 Star Guy

RamzFanz said:


> I agree, we should have period 1 coverage.
> 
> That doesn't change the fact that we get free commercial insurance in the other periods.


It's not commercial. Go make a comparison of the two, add your 1K deductible and find out how no one recommends only 1M commercial anyway. I hope they pass the TNC Gap insurance in MO before you get screwed.


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## RamzFanz

5 Star Guy said:


> It's not commercial. Go make a comparison of the two, add your 1K deductible and find out how no one recommends only 1M commercial anyway. I hope they pass the TNC Gap insurance in MO before you get screwed.


Recommends? Who? Insurance agents?

It's FAR more than most states require for commercial insurance. It's 100% commercial by the very definition. You can fill in where you need to or not, IT IS A FREE $1,000,000 commercial liability insurance with FREE collision. Agenda rant and hate all you want, it's a FREE and COMMERCIAL policy.

If I find I need gap insurance it will only be because an uninsured motorist hit my parked car AND my agent, who does commercial most of the time and verified with corporate, lied to me. Possible, but _extremely_ unlikely. I could also be hit by a meteorite, but I'm not insuring against it. Call me crazy.


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## 5 Star Guy

Well for everyone else, their insurance is no where close to commercial insurance. Like I said go get a free commercial insurance quote for a fake business, never mention this driving and see what they cover. If you believe up to 1M is enough and will cover everything, you should buy a bridge. You do need TNC Gap insurance. It is clear you don't get it, I hope everyone else understands.


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## 5 Star Guy

Not to sound like i"m picking on people but you might as well not carry insurance. It sounds like you think they will settle, for your minimum insurance or Travass'. Good luck when you're at fault with four pax and you don't have enough coverage. Drive like Travass is watching, well he is definitely monitoring, or the police hacked in to your dash cam. Don't be fooled with a little coverage, you need full coverage or you're screwed.


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## steveK2016

I feel this thread deserves a bump. The original post is very clear about the misconceptions of insurance while Ubering.

The key takeaway is that Uber will cover damage and medical for pax and anything that you hit, but will only match your current policy for your vehicle and medical if you have valid personal insurance. The validity of your insurance will be based on whether or not your insurance company knows you uber and has given you a rideshare endorsement of some kind. If your insurance company did not approve you for rideshare, they may cancel and/or deny your claim, at which point Uber will match your personal insurance with a $0 payout for your own repair and medical bills.

You may get lucky for a while, but luck runs out and an out of pocket accident will set you back for a long time.


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## wilskro

steveK2016 said:


> I feel this thread deserves a bump. The original post is very clear about the misconceptions of insurance while Ubering.
> 
> The key takeaway is that Uber will cover damage and medical for pax and anything that you hit, but will only match your current policy for your vehicle and medical if you have valid personal insurance. The validity of your insurance will be based on whether or not your insurance company knows you uber and has given you a rideshare endorsement of some kind. If your insurance company did not approve you for rideshare, they may cancel and/or deny your claim, at which point Uber will match your personal insurance with a $0 payout for your own repair and medical bills.
> 
> You may get lucky for a while, but luck runs out and an out of pocket accident will set you back for a long time.


-----
This is why I stopped driving for these characters. My insurance doesn't accept shareriding, and they kept telling me no worry baby. Your getting crap money, for the risk of losing your property. You get guff from pax, and they can complain just because they don't like older drivers. It is all bullshit.


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