# Gap Insurance Unnecessary?



## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

So, was calling around looking to fill the gap (app on, no ping yet) and getting nowhere with any insurance company so I fired off an email to Cleveland support to see if anything has changed because some states now require primary coverage during the gap:

Me:
What is the latest on insurance during period one? (app is on, but I have not received a ping). If I have an accident during that period, and my personal insurance refuses to cover, will Uber's?

*Vik at Uber* (Uber)

May 6, 16:10

Hi Timothy,

Thanks for your message. If the app is on, our insurance (James River) will be available. Thanks for checking.

Best,

*Vik at Uber
*
So, what are we stressing about? Sounds like we are, in fact, completely covered.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Ask them about limits, and what insurance they are taking about? is it Primary? Must you get denied first? (and thus probably cancelled). Uber has always been contingent in period one. But if it is not your fault you still have the $1000,00 deductable. and if you get sued you are paying for your own lawyer. That's where the "duty to defend" comes in when the insurance is primary.


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

Okay, just asked for details and will post them when they respond.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

Read the limitations and make sure you carry full coverage.

If you don't have collision on your personal insurance the James River policy will not cover you for damage to your car due to a collision.


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

Wow, thanks Beur! That's great news. So, how come none of us knew? lol. That really leaves no reason for the insurance companies to be cancelling policies. They should just deny the claim.


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## Walkersm (Apr 15, 2014)

Tim In Cleveland said:


> Wow, thanks Beur! That's great news. So, how come none of us knew? lol. That really leaves no reason for the insurance companies to be cancelling policies. They should just deny the claim.


Everyone knew, it is just sucky coverage. In order to get coverage I have to out myself as an uber driver, probably get my insurance cancelled. Then if it is serious accident Uber tops out at a 50K payout and if they refuse it you are on your own for the lawsuit. Ever tried to hire an attorney to defend against a personal accident lawsuit? Have $50k laying around? They don't take Stars as payments.

Either that or just lie to my insurance company and have the general public pay for ubers commercial accidents. Thats the way Uber wants it.


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

Everyone didn't know and are still discussing the "gap" in other threads. California just recently forced this with their rideshare law and Uber decided to be the one to provide phase one coverage because there barely is any insurance companies providing it to drivers outside of a full commercial policy. Uber then decided to take it nationwide. I sure didn't see an email with the chart you posted or mention of this important insurance update.
This makes other insurance pretty useless unless it will seriously enhance the coverage at an affordable price. I'd say all the insurance companies lost the war and James River Casualty gets all the spoils.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

MetroMile graphic sent to me via email.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

I received written conformation from Metromile that Metromile does not provide coverage during Period 2 and Period 3.
From Metromile:
"With the new laws governing TNC use, if you have comprehensive and collision coverage with your personal insurance provider, the TNC company is supposed to provide those coverages during during periods 2 and 3 as well. However, you will have to speak with an Uber representative to confirm this and go over further details. We appreciate you being a Metromile customer."
Now I need written confirmation from Uber that they will cover me with comprehensive and collision in Period 2 and Period 3 since I have those coverages with Metromile.


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## Godric (Jan 17, 2015)

Rock...You claim to be a Lyft driver. Metromile will not deduct any miles you drive for Lyft. Metromile will charge you for all miles that are not Uber miles.

You also claim any company associated with Uber is not driver friendly. I use Firestone (cost + 10% tires, 15% off services), Verizon (15% off) and Metromile. All have been great to deal with.


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

Uber now has Period 1 coverage too. $50k per injured person; $100k per accident; $25K property damage. We now have coverage anytime the app is on.


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## Godric (Jan 17, 2015)

$50,000/$100,000/$25,000 of contingent coverage between trips.** During the time that a ridesharing partner is available but between trips, most personal auto insurance will provide coverage. However the driver is also backed by an additional policy that covers driver liability for bodily injury up to $50,000/individual/accident with a total of $100,000/accident and up to $25,000 for property damage. This policy is contingent to a driver's personal insurance policy, meaning it will only pay if the personal auto insurance completely declines or pays zero. This policy meets or exceeds the requirements for 3rd party liability insurance in every state in the U.S.
Per Uber policy...Read this very carefully...and then read it again.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

When I started my profile I put Uber and Lyft. For some reason uberpeople.net listed me as a Lyft driver. I no longer drive for Lyft as they are a pain in San Diego. I would pay for more miles with Metromile as they do not have a deal with Lyft. Metromile indicates they do not cover the driver for any TNC during the time government regulations require the TNC to cover the driver with comprehensive and collision (periods 2 and 3). 
15 minute pings, and brats for passengers caused me to ignore Lyft.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

Godric said:


> $50,000/$100,000/$25,000 of contingent coverage between trips.** During the time that a ridesharing partner is available but between trips, most personal auto insurance will provide coverage. However the driver is also backed by an additional policy that covers driver liability for bodily injury up to $50,000/individual/accident with a total of $100,000/accident and up to $25,000 for property damage. This policy is contingent to a driver's personal insurance policy, meaning it will only pay if the personal auto insurance completely declines or pays zero. This policy meets or exceeds the requirements for 3rd party liability insurance in every state in the U.S.
> Per Uber policy...Read this very carefully...and then read it again.


Where exactly is that stated? I am looking for a definitive declaration from Uber that what you say is the case, and we are covered. I would appreciate it very much if you could list your source. It would make me feel a lot better knowing that I am not risking my car driving for Uber.


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## Godric (Jan 17, 2015)

Here you go Sir.

blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

Godric, that is not really a legal document. It is a statement on a blog.
Many of us are trying to get the actual policy language. Uber has not released the actual policy for inspection at this time.
If this statement were true:

"_$50,000/$100,000/$25,000 of contingent coverage between trips.** During the time that a ridesharing partner is available but between trips, most personal auto insurance will provide coverage. However the driver is also backed by an additional policy that covers driver liability for bodily injury up to $50,000/individual/accident with a total of $100,000/accident and up to $25,000 for property damage. This policy is contingent to a driver's personal insurance policy, meaning it will only pay if the personal auto insurance completely declines or pays zero. This policy meets or exceeds the requirements for 3rd party liability insurance in every state in the U.S._"

We would all be happy, but even Metromile in an email to me indicates this may not be the case. In fact we now know most insurance companies will not cover an accident as Uber states. They will cancel your personal insurance and possibly sue you for fraud. Personal insurance clearly states in the policy that "for hire" is not covered.

Companies like Metromile that have an actual data link to the Uber app will not cancel your insurance, or sue you, but they will not cover comprehensive or collision in period 2 or 3 of a Uber trip.

So no that is not a definitive statement, is is misinformation put out by Uber on a non binding blog.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Tim In Cleveland said:


> Uber now has Period 1 coverage too. $50k per injured person; $100k per accident; $25K property damage. We now have coverage anytime the app is on.


It's Not that simple.
The coverage in Period 1 is Contingent Coverage, and Secondary to your Personal Car Insurance. That means that you have to First file a claim with your Personal Car Insurance provider, and if they deny your claim, then you can file with Uber's James River Insurance.

And even with the new laws passed in many States this year with Primary Insurance Coverage during Period 1 (Gap Period), there is No Collison Damage coverage for Driver's car.
*Uber | Insurance Aligned*


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> It's Not that simple.
> The coverage in Period 1 is Contingent Coverage, and Secondary to your Personal Car Insurance. That means that you have to First file a claim with your Personal Car Insurance provider, and if they deny your claim, then you can file with Uber's James River Insurance.
> 
> And even with the new laws passed in many States this year with Primary Insurance Coverage during Period 1 (Gap Period), there is No Collison Damage coverage for Driver's car.
> *Uber | Insurance Aligned*


Or driver's injuries.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Or driver's injuries.


Is that Garfield and Nermal? (avator)


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> It's Not that simple.
> The coverage in Period 1 is Contingent Coverage, and Secondary to your Personal Car Insurance. That means that you have to First file a claim with your Personal Car Insurance provider, and if they deny your claim, then you can file with Uber's James River Insurance.
> 
> And even with the new laws passed in many States this year with Primary Insurance Coverage during Period 1 (Gap Period), there is No Collison Damage coverage for Driver's car.
> *Uber | Insurance Aligned*


I thought you retired from this post, and that desertdriver is your successor.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Godric said:


> Here you go Sir.
> 
> blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance


Thank you sir may I have another!!!


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> I thought you retired from this post, and that desertdriver is your successor.


https://uberpeople.net/threads/im-leaving-just-saying-goodbye.17864/page-4#post-271442

And Desert Driver, Don't Do It!
It's a road to ruination!


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

You present NO PROOF we are still required to present claims to our insurance companies first and it's not likely they will cancel a policy and sue the driver. That is such b.s. Even if Uber does keep requiring you to submit to your own insurance, the companies will see they are not required to pay out and not bother cancelling you. Damage to your own car IS COVERED but currently, you are required to also have coverage through your own insurance company. I see no reason to require that, but still, you are covered.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Tim In Cleveland said:


> You present NO PROOF we are still required to present claims to our insurance companies first and it's not likely they will cancel a policy and sue the driver.


*None so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see.
Matthew Henry









*
Do you see the word *"Contingent"* in the graphic?
Uber's Liability coverage is Contingent on your Personal Auto Insurance denying coverage during the Gap Period. Plus there is No Collison Damage Coverage during the Gap Period.
Now with the insurance language of many new State Laws passed this year, the insurance coverage required during the Gap Period is No longer Contingent, it's Primary Insurance Coverage that does not require the Driver to First file a claim w/ his/her Personal Car Insurance. But there is Still No Collison Damage Coverage during the Gap Period.

Here's a some food for thought for you:
If there was no Gap Insurance coverage issues, why did Uber sit down with Insurance Companies and hammer out this agreement?
*Uber | Insurance Aligned*


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

Fine, but still, contingent insurance is insurance. We have coverage.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

The more I read about these insurance threads, the more confusing it gets. Txrides can you clarify it for me. Just break it down to two possible answers, "cool, or uncool".


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

DrJeecheroo said:


> The more I read about these insurance threads, the more confusing it gets. Txrides can you clarify it for me. Just break it down to two possible answers, "cool, or uncool".


I cannot say one way or the other. Clearly, this company is keeping the details from the very drivers affected by this. That alone would alarm me. They have not updated their public statement, one must wonder "why"?
But in this mix, there are drivers who are willing to lie to their insurance companies, there are drivers who do not read any fine print, nor do they demand it. I can only speak on behalf of my own company and say that we know precisely what is covered, 24 x 7. We would not have it any other way. Aside from public accountability for any damages we could cause, we have employees who depend on us for income. If we lose it all, they lose too.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Ok so the answer is "uncool", but with your company "cool". Thanks.


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## SavannahAdam (May 12, 2015)

Everything I read indicates James River DOES NOT pay for the driver's property or the driver's injuries. The policy covers the passengers and any property damage caused by the driver (aside from the driver's vehicle). That's great since I know my personal policy would not pay for a passenger's medical bills, for example. But if my policy states that I'm not covered for damages when I'm using my car for hire, I would assume I'd be on the hook for damages to my vehicle. 

Fortunately, it seems like insurance companies are moving to give Uber/Lyft drivers some affordable coverage options. I know USAA (my insurer) offers covered in Colorado and Texas for less than $10 per month and GEICO has started slowly rolling out policies in Maryland (I think). It won't be long before others jump on this. I can certainly afford that, but totaling my car while working for Uber with no coverage is a risk I won't take for very long.


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