# (Edited) California Gap Insurance | Farmers Insurance



## chi1cabby

*New insurance product will fill a gap for UberX, Lyft and Sidecar drivers*

http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-tnc-farmers-insurance-20150527-story.html


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## cybertec69

So it looks like all the rest of the FHV/Taxi companies will be able to use the same insurance "not commercial insurance", since what Uber is doing is FHV/Taxi service, "not rideshare".


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## ChrisS

Still doesn't provide UM/IM Comp/Collision if you carry those personally. Only liability which is shiz if anything happens besides hitting someone with pax.


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## arto71

*INSURANCE DESIGNED FOR RIDESHARING*
Introducing Rideshare Insurance from Farmers








Farmers Insurance, one of the nation's largest personal auto insurers, is now offering new rideshare coverage designed specifically for driver partners in California.
*What Does Farmers Rideshare Coverage Include?*
While Uber already holds auto liability insurance for you during the time you are logged onto the app but not on a trip, the new Farmers Rideshare product gives you the choice to meet your own individual needs by selecting your own coverage limits and additional coverages -- like comprehensive and collision, which protect against damage to your vehicle -- during this same period.
*How Does It Work?*
It's simple.extends a traditional Farmers auto policy so its coverage limits and any additional optional coverages you have apply while you're logged onto the app are are waiting to accept a trip request.
Only Pay for the Coverage You Need








*How Much Does It Cost?*
According to Farmers, the coverage will cost just 8% more than a traditional Farmers insurance personal auto policy. This is a small amount of additional premium for customizable coverage and your own peace of mind.
*How Can I Learn More?*
For more information, contact your Farmers agent or click here.

Uber on !

Your Uber California Team
You are not required to purchase a rideshare endorsement to operate on the Uber system. Uber maintains a policy (through Rasier-CA LLC and underwritten by James River Insurance Company) that covers your liability for the operation of a motor vehicle while logged into the Uber Partner app at the amounts required by California law. The policy maintained by Uber does NOT include 1st party coverages (for example, comprehensive, collision, uninsured motorist or medical payments) when you are logged on to the Uber Partner app but not yet matched with a rider.
Uber Technologies Inc., 1455 Market Street San Francisco, CA 94103

Get Help Unsubscribe


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## cybertec69

Farmers knows that is not a Rideshare gig, what Uber drivers are doing is FHV/Taxi work, but Farmers greed and a small nudge $$$$ by Uber got the wheels rolling on this fraud.


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## chi1cabby

arto71 said:


> *INSURANCE DESIGNED FOR RIDESHARING*
> Introducing Rideshare Insurance from Farmers


Is this from an Uber email or a blog post?


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## chi1cabby

arto71 said:


> You are not required to purchase a rideshare endorsement to operate on the Uber system. Uber maintains a policy (through Rasier-CA LLC and underwritten by James River Insurance Company) that covers your liability for the operation of a motor vehicle while logged into the Uber Partner app at the amounts required by California law.


But AFAIK, the Liability coverage during the Gap Period provided by Uber's James is Contingent Insurance, not Primary Insurance as required by AB 2293.


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## arto71

chi1cabby said:


> Is this from an Uber email or a blog post?


Email


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## arto71

arto71 said:


> Email


seems it was busy day at uber's office,got three emails,one of them was New Privacy Statement and did not have a time to go the whole thing but lots of interesting stuff in rider's section


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## chi1cabby

arto71 said:


> New Privacy Statement


The New Uber Driver Privacy Policy is being discussed here:
*Uber's New Privacy Policy Admits That Riders (And Drivers) Have No Privacy*


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## KevinH

Got a quote from my Farmers agent yesterday for liability only on my personal car. The agent explained that the policy would be categorized as some sort of "use for work" policy and not just a personal policy with a ride share endorsement When the figures cam in, they were about 23% higher than my personal policy. As a caveat, I have very few miles of commuting declared on my personal policy.


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## chi1cabby

KevinH said:


> When the figures cam in, they were about 23% higher than my personal policy.


And the premium was supposed to be only 8% higher than regular personal policy!


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## chi1cabby

arto71 said:


> *How Much Does It Cost?*
> According to Farmers, the coverage will cost just 8% more than a traditional Farmers insurance personal auto policy.


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## arto71

KevinH said:


> When the figures cam in, they were about 23% higher than my personal policy.


And that's pretty much same coverage only upside is that they don't cancel on you.Mark my words whatever extra % it is it'll be double next year.


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## cybertec69

KevinH said:


> Got a quote from my Farmers agent yesterday for liability olnly on my personal car. The agent explained that the policy would be categorized as some sort of "use for work" policy and not just a personal policy with a ride share endorsement When the figures cam in, they were about 23% higher than my personal policy. As a caveat, I have very few miles of commuting declared on my personal policy.


That's not so bad, considering commercial insurance would be 200% more than your current policy.


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## KevinH

A couple of issues that need to be sorted out by getting more quotes:
The policy is not a "preferred customer" personal policy with light use being declared, but some sort of second tier business use or higher risk category. Then maybe Farmers adds 8% to it.
Secondly, I have declared extremely low commute mileage and so I get the best premium available. The commercial policy probably takes into account the necessary higher personal miles associated with .


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## Beur

KevinH said:


> A couple of issues that need to be sorted out by getting more quotes:
> The policy is not a "preferred customer" personal policy with light use being declared, but some sort of second tier business use or higher risk category. Then maybe Farmers adds 8% to it.
> Secondly, I have declared extremely low commute mileage and so I get the best premium available. The commercial policy probably takes into account the necessary higher personal miles associated with .


With the Farmers policy all discounts you have with them now go away. The policy is issued by Farmers Speciality Insurance group.


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## Rebecca_Farmers

Working from Farmers, it will cost 8% more than your personal auto policy. So, what your personal auto policy rate for Farmers is, add 8%. In CA, the big factor is the mileage... If your car is rated for only going 4,000 miles a year, but then you change your policy to ride sharing, you are going to have your insurance cost go up because you are adding more mileage and the rideshare endorsement. Where as if your policy was rated at 13000 miles, it would cost 8% more than what you would be currently paying.


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## Paulie0902

Got a quote from a farmers agent. Normal personal auto policy with 18K miles is 860 for 6 months. To add rideshare they insure through Specialty and the base rate was quoted at $1220 and with rideshare endorsement that went to $1314. This is around a 65% increase not the 8% they are touting. Be warned.


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## chi1cabby

According to the email from Uber on Farmers Insurance, posted by arto71 above:


arto71 said:


> *You are not required to purchase a rideshare endorsement to operate on the Uber system. Uber maintains a policy (through Rasier-CA LLC and underwritten by James River Insurance Company) that covers your liability for the operation of a motor vehicle while logged into the Uber Partner app at the amounts required by California law*.


Here is the *CPUC Enforcement of California Law AB 2293:
*
Period 1: App open - waiting for a match.


Period 1 - TNCs shall *provide primary insurance* in the amount of at least fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) for death and personal injury per person, one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) for death and personal injury per incident, and thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) for property damage.*TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC that provides coverage if a driver does not maintain the required TNC insurance, or if the driver's TNC insurance ceases to exist or is cancelled; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).*
But AFAIK, Uber's Period 1 California Insurance is still *Secondary & Contingent.
http://blog.uber.com/uberXridesharinginsurance*
*







*

*Can someone please email Uber* to seek an explanation from Uber if it's changed it's Period 1 Gap Insurance coverage from Secondary & Contingent to Primary Insurance Coverage in California to satisfy the requirements of AB 2293?


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## chi1cabby

To
LAuberX, Optimus Uber, arto71, TeleSki, headtheball, UberDude2, frndthDuvel, Sacto Burbs, Gemgirlla, UberComic or other CalIfornia Drivers:
I've been trying to bring it to the attention of California Drivers that the Liability coverage during the Gap Period provided by Uber is Contingent Insurance, not Primary Insurance as required by AB 2293.

But per Uber's email posted by arto71 


arto71 said:


> *You are not required to purchase a rideshare endorsement to operate on the Uber system. Uber maintains a policy (through Rasier-CA LLC and underwritten by James River Insurance Company) that covers your liability for the operation of a motor vehicle while logged into the Uber Partner app at the amounts required by California law.*


*Can someone please email Uber* to seek an explanation from Uber if it's changed it's Period 1 Gap Insurance coverage from *Secondary & Contingent to Primary Insurance Coverage *in California to satisfy the requirements of AB 2293?


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## GooberX

cybertec69 said:


> Farmers knows that is not a Rideshare gig, what Uber drivers are doing is FHV/Taxi work, but Farmers greed and a small nudge $$$$ by Uber got the wheels rolling on this fraud.


Farmers is not stupid.

Wait until AFTER everyone is signed up.

Year 2 premiums will be much higher.


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## chi1cabby




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## chi1cabby

chi1cabby said:


> *Can someone please email Uber* to seek an explanation from Uber if it's changed it's Period 1 Gap Insurance coverage from *Secondary & Contingent to Primary Insurance Coverage *in California to satisfy the requirements of AB 2293?


A forum member emailed Uber for clarification. This is Uber's response:

_My sincere apologies for the delay inresponse and for the confusing and incorrect response you most recently received.

*At this time, no changes have been made on our end at this time.* The Los Angeles team will be sure to communicate any changes as they are made to all partners involved here in regards to these specific insurance concerns.
_
*So basically Uber's speaking misleadingly from both sides of it's mouth with a forked tongue, as usual!
1) AB 2293 requires Primary Liability coverage during Period 1
2) In it's Farmers Insurance email, Uber says that it already maintains this coverage. And the email further says that Drivers Do Not have to purchase the Farmers Insurance Rideshare Add-On coverage to operate on the Uber platform.
3) But Uber's Period 1 Coverage is Contingent Liability, Not Primary Liability, as required by AB 2293. And the email to the forum member confirms that Uber Has Not changed it's Period One coverage to conform to AB 2293*

I think I'll notify Assemblywoman Bonilla, the primary sponsor of AB 2293


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## Ziggy

chi1cabby said:


> I think I'll notify Assemblywoman Bonilla, the primary sponsor of AB 2293


AB2293 doesn't take effect until July 1, 2015


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## chi1cabby

Ziggy said:


> AB2293 doesn't take effect until July 1, 2015


Yes. Most CA drivers on the forum know that.


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## LAuberX

the onus is on Uber to provide this insurance for period 1 according to that Assembly Bill we just don't know if there will be a new fee or ??? On July 1st.

Uber sucks at so many things, honesty and communication are at the top of that list.


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## chi1cabby

LAuberX said:


> the onus is on Uber to provide this insurance for period 1 according to that Assembly Bill


If Drivers don't have the required Primary Gap Insurance, then the TNCs are obligated to provide the coverage. But as you've noted,


LAuberX said:


> Uber sucks at so many things, honesty and communication are at the top of that list.


Here is the *CPUC Enforcement of California Law AB 2293:
Period 1: App open - waiting for a match.


Period 1 - TNCs shall provide primary insurance in the amount of at least fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) for death and personal injury per person, one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) for death and personal injury per incident, and thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) for property damage.TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC that provides coverage if a driver does not maintain the required TNC insurance, or if the driver's TNC insurance ceases to exist or is cancelled; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).
*


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## riChElwAy

so it looks like the only avenue for proper collision coverage is through MetroMile .. as Farmers is only offering for Period 1

and it appears that AB 2293 is stating that Uber will not in any way be paying for the driver's damaged vehicle or medical bills under any circumstances

so if an uberX driver does not have MetroMile and gets into an accident and damages his/her car, ends up in hospital, it ain't covered, driver is SOL

i thought Bonilla said she was protecting the driver from possibly being ruined financially! what a liar


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## chi1cabby

Post by SCdave 
*https://uberpeople.net/threads/did-you-get-farmers-or-metromile.22908/page-2#post-318213*
Got this as a reply to CSR email inquiry I made. So as of today, Uber in California response to my July 1st California Insurance changes are:

_Effective July 1, 2015, there will be updates to coverage of personal insurance in the state of California. Period 1 will no longer be covered under personal insurance, but instead will fall under Rasier's Commercial policy. This update changes what liability coverage is available to partners. Read on to find out more and visit our BLOG post!

What is Period 1?
Period One: Logged on to app, before matched with rider
Requires the TNC (Rasier) or the driver to maintain primary liability coverage in "Period 1" at$50k/$100k/$30k
$50k = max paid out if one person is injured
$100k = max paid out if two or more people are injured
$30k = max paid out for otherpeople's property (car, fence, lamp pole)
Uber will maintain primarycoverage, but our policy does NOT cover damages to the driver partner's vehicle or injuries to the partner
Personal insurance will NOT apply in Period 1, unless driver has 'rideshare insurance', which is an extension of personal policy to Period 1

Rideshare Products Available
Farmers Insurance:
Like normal insurance, but pay an additional premium and the personal insurance will carry to Period 1
Farmers stated this will cost ~8% more than a traditional Farmers policy
http://www.farmers.com/carideshare/ or call an agent

Metromile:
Pay-per-mile based insurance product
Drivers ONLY pay for miles in their personal use and Period 1
Miles driven from Accept trip to End Trip are EXCLUDED in the amount of premium they pay Metromile
We work with Metromile to provide drivers Accept trip and End trip times so they can subtract these miles
https://www.metromile.com/uber or 888-510-9319

FAQs
What are the benefits of getting a rideshare insurance policy?
Uber's policy, which meets the state requirement, is ONLY 3rd party liability; it does NOT cover injuries to the driver or damages to the driver's vehicle. A driver can obtain these coverages by getting their own rideshare insurance policy from Metromile or Farmers
They can also increase 3rd party coverage limits beyond our policy, which are $50k/$100k/$30k
Can I keep my personal insurance policy with my current insurance company and purchase the rideshare endorsement?
Only if the current insurance company is Farmers or Metromile
If a driver has a policy with another insurer, the driver would need to obtain a personal policy with a rideshare endorsement from Farmers or Metromile and cancel the current policy with the current insurer.
I thought I was covered under Uber's $1M policy
The $1M policy Uber maintains does not apply in Period 1. This policy is in effect from trip acceptance to completion, and we maintain a policy with:
$1M 3rd party liability coverage (injuries to others and others' property)
$1M of uninsured and underinsured motorist - another motorist is at fault and doesn't have adequate insurance
Contingent Comprehensive and Collision Insurance - if a driver has these coverages on their own personal policy, we'll carry the coverage over to the time of trip acceptance to completion. Has a $1k deductible._


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## riChElwAy

thx!


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## chi1cabby

riChElwAy said:


> i thought Bonilla said she was protecting the driver from possibly being ruined financially! what a liar


I followed the AB 2293 battle quite closely. 
Assemblywoman Bonilla tried & did the best she could in the face of a massive onslaught by Uber against AB2293. Thanx to her efforts, CA Drivers won't be driving around without even the Primary Liability coverage in Period 1, that Uber will now be providing.
I agree, there is a still no Collison Damage coverage in period one, and no medical coverage.


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## riChElwAy

chi1cabby said:


> I followed the AB 2293 battle quite closely.
> Assemblywoman Bonilla tried & did the best she could in the face of a massive onslaught by Uber against AB2293. Thanx to her efforts, CA Drivers won't be driving around without even the Primary Liability coverage in Period 1, that Uber will now be providing.
> I agree, there is a still no Collison Damage coverage in period one, and no medical coverage.


and for Periods 2 & 3 .. the way I understand it, this is Uber's commercial insurance and it does NOT include comprehensive/collision .. is this correct?


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## chi1cabby

riChElwAy said:


> Periods 2 & 3 .. the way I understand it, this is Uber's commercial insurance and it does NOT include comprehensive/collision .. is this correct?


During Periods 2 & 3, Uber has Contingent Collison Damage coverage for Drivers' cars with $1,000 Deductible, if Drivers have Collison Damage coverage in their Personal Auto Insurance policies.

Same with Lyft, but with $2,500 Deductible.


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## riChElwAy

chi1cabby said:


> During Periods 2 & 3, Uber has Contingent Collison Damage coverage for Drivers' cars with $1,000 Deductible, if Drivers have Collison Damage coverage in their Personal Auto Insurance policies.
> 
> Same with Lyft, but with $2,500 Deductible.


 AB-2293 specifically states that a driver's personal policy may NOT be used in any scenario during TNC work


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## observer

chi1cabby said:


> I followed the AB 2293 battle quite closely.
> Assemblywoman Bonilla tried & did the best she could in the face of a massive onslaught by Uber against AB2293. Thanx to her efforts, CA Drivers won't be driving around without even the Primary Liability coverage in Period 1, that Uber will now be providing.
> I agree, there is a still no Collison Damage coverage in period one, and no medical coverage.


CPUC is currently drafting phase two of TNC regulations.

Sometimes, a war is won with many small battles. AB 2293 is not the last TNC bill. Just the beginning...


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## LAuberX

If Uber required the 10,000+ drivers to get rideshare insurance there would be no more UberX in California, they have to cover it.

Thanks Chi1Cabby for the break down... the driver and his car are still left out in the cold.


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## chi1cabby

LAuberX said:


> Thanks Chi1Cabby for the break down... the driver and his car are still left out in the cold.


Anytime bro!


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## elelegido

chi1cabby said:


> *
> Period 1 - TNCs shall provide primary insurance in the amount of at least fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) for death and personal injury per person, one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) for death and personal injury per incident, and thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) for property damage.TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC that provides coverage if a driver does not maintain the required TNC insurance, or if the driver's TNC insurance ceases to exist or is cancelled; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).
> *


I don't see anywhere in this legislation that UberLyft's period 1 insurance is liability, third party only. For example, above it says "$30,000 for property damage". If my car were in an accident while Ubering, I would claim on Uber's insurance, given that it is property and it was damaged.

However, Uber is trying to say that drivers are not covered for their own losses under the legislation.

This is a very poorly worded piece of legislation, which is ambiguous and completely open to interpretation. When this happens it's down to judges to interpret the law and set precedents in establishing what the legislators actually meant.

It's piss poor, really; it's not as if the legislators did not take enough time on this to do a proper job.


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## riChElwAy

the AB-2293 legislation is actually cut and dry and very clear, that is, only after you've read and studied the bill for 50+ hours

it is a lot of stuff, but i now have a firm handle on it, and i am surprised that it is understandable and actually makes complete sense. .

one of the critical things that is happening in AB-2293 is that "contingency" is giving way to Uber being PRIMARY in all periods . . so no more "contingency" starting July 1st this is huge

in the critical period 1 where app is on and driver is just trolling around without a ride but has app on, Uber is not required, and of course WILL NOT cover any medical or car damage to the driver . . the driver is screwed unless he/she goes out and gets MetroMile or Farmers, which dramatically changes the driver's new insurance expenses

so to be properly covered and to have no risk of complete financial ruin due to one distracted driving crash, to be safe the driver must switch over to Farmers or MetroMile and purchase those products . . if the driver does not switch over and buy these products then he/she risks losing everything as one trip to the hospital can easily bankrupt you, not to mention your car won't be covered and look at how small those limits are in Period 1 ... yes Uber will be primary liability but is only on the hook under the July 1st law for 50/100/30

so when Bonilla stated "I just want to assure that no TNC driver can be financially ruined because of one accident" she may have indeed been telling the truth, but she could have also added "the TNC driver will have to chip in and pay his/her dues to complete the deal"


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## UberPartnerDennis

I have the farmers coverage. I am covered for liability, UI and UM, Comp and Collision. I am not sure where you people are getting your information from but its wrong. I am covered while driving and its only 12 more a month than my personal insurance


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## riChElwAy

UberPartnerDennis said:


> I have the farmers coverage. I am covered for liability, UI and UM, Comp and Collision. I am not sure where you people are getting your information from but its wrong. I am covered while driving and its only 12 more a month than my personal insurance


i find this hard to believe . . what was your insurance before?


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## chi1cabby

UberPartnerDennis said:


> I have the farmers coverage. I am covered for liability, UI and UM, Comp and Collision. I am not sure where you people are getting your information from but its wrong. I am covered while driving and its only 12 more a month than my personal insurance





riChElwAy said:


> i find this hard to believe . . what was your insurance before?


Post by RacerX
https://uberpeople.net/threads/3rd-party-insurance-mandatory.21933/page-5#post-310611


RacerX said:


> Well, I finally got around to getting a quote from farmers today and as I had suspected and what has already been reported here and elsewhere it's Not good. The 6 month farmers premium is around $1700 and is more than double (like a 2.5 surge ) compared to my current policy with one of the big insurance company's. I drive a Prius. This quote was also based on a policy that allows for 15k miles.


Post by Joseph Otto 
https://uberpeople.net/threads/thinking-about-the-new-auto-insurance.23586/#post-325255


Joseph Otto said:


> Just got a quote from FARMERS and it's like $1,800 every 6 months for full coverage on my 2009 Mercedes C300 but the quote does not indicate if the rideshare is included or not..


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## UberPartnerDennis

riChElwAy said:


> i find this hard to believe . . what was your insurance before?


I had esurance, I get discounts because my record is spotless (good driver discount) my years behind the wheel (29) and for having onstar. I am reading a LOT of misinformation about the Farmers insurance, and I had a discussion with my agent.

Because the Uber rider is something new a LOT of insurance agents are misquoting and actually giving commercial insurance rates. Its the way their system used to be set up, from what I understand, more training is being rolled out and my agent had to go looking for information on doing it right.

My advice to people is that if the rate is WAY too high ask the agent to double and triple check they are quoting the Uber rider and not commecial rates


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## Sacto Burbs

My quote is for $140/mo, 10,000 miles includung all Uber Lyft miles, 500 deductible.


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## chi1cabby

Farmers Rideshare Insurance
6 months, $1,091 premium.










Sorry, I tried rotating the pic, but it still loads sideways.


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## hanging in there

chi1cabby said:


> *New insurance product will fill a gap for UberX, Lyft and Sidecar drivers*
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-tnc-farmers-insurance-20150527-story.html


In light of the recent Toronto Uber insurance case I thought it would be timely to throw out some of the info I've recently come up with comparing the two legit TNC "ridesharing" insurance options in California at the moment, besides full commercial coverage policies that most people can not justify or afford in Uberland.

I currently have the Uber-enabled version of Metromile. Based on my clean driving record, my vehicle (2006 Chrysler Town and Country Minivan) and my zip code of 92627 Costa Mesa, CA, and based on my selected coverages of:

Comp $1000 deductible
Collision $1000 deductible
Roadside assistance - included
Car rental - none
Liability 50k/100k
Property damage 50k
Collision deductible waiver $1000
Personal injury protection - none
Medical payments $1000
Uninsured motorist bodily injury 50k/100k
Uninsured motorist property damage - none

My Metromile policy is costing me $30.60/30 days, + 4.0 cents/miles up to 150 miles/day. Miles driven during Uber period 2 and 3 are at no charge.

Lyft and Sidecar rides, however, are not covered by Metromile, I am stuck with whatever those TNC's are covering, which, according to law as it stands now with AB2293, means that during period 1 with Lyft or Sidecar I am only covered by the TNC's liability... no comp, no collision, no uninsured motorist, no med pay.

The only advantage of Metromile during period 1 for Lyft or Sidecar rides is that they are not going to cancel the policy due to TNC use, they are "cool with it", they just won't pay anything during that period, I have no coverage from them.

So I got a quote from Farmers for their TNC policy today and for the same coverage as above, but more, I was quoted $130/mo. Here is the "more" part:
Uninsured motorist property damage $3500 (nice but, a far cry from full property damage coverage), and, drum roll, here's the biggie...
Period 1 coverage regardless of which TNC.

So just looking at the numbers, and ignoring the extra benefit of full TNC period 1 coverage across platforms, here's a rough breakdown:

If I subtract the $30/mo fixed Metromile premium from the $130/mo Farmers one, that leaves $100/mo. Clearly Metromile would be cheaper if I drive less, and Farmers would be cheaper if I drive more. What is the "breakeven" point?

$100/mo vs 4 cents per mile for personal or period 1 miles, which pencils out to 2500 miles per month personal (including commuting to start in a hotspot) and period 1 miles. I could think of it in many ways but let's just say that if I work 6 days/week and I put on more than 100 miles a day of personal and period 1 miles, then Farmers starts to be the cheaper alternative, with the added benefit of the full coverage of all Period 1 times, not just Uber.

Admittedly that means that for most of the UberX drivers Metromile would be a cheaper alternative since most UberX drivers are not full time, from what I understand. But if someone were to spend most or all of their time doing Lyft then Farmers might still be a serious consideration in order to fill the insurance gap.

Or... and this is the "gray area" that I still see with Metromile, let's say that the entire time you are in Period 1 you make sure that the Uber app is on, insuring that Metromile covers what Uber doesn't (everything but liability). How does that work? Would they say "Hey, we won't cover Uber period 1 because you also had the Lyft app and the Sidecar app on at the same time in period 1 as well"? I doubt that would be an issue, or a viable issue, unless the driver was stupid enough to bring it up.

Option 3, of course, is to continue to use a personal non-livery policy and take the chance that you will be the next "Toronto". But, in my case, it would cost me maybe half of what Farmers would charge me, so the trade-off in my case would be, let's say, saving $65/mo vs having a legit coverage in the case of Farmers, or a mostly legit coverage in the case of Metromile.

If I wind up doing TNC work "full time plus" like I used to do with taxi work then Metromile could easily cost me $200/mo, in which case I would certainly switch to Farmers and save $70 month and have more complete coverage.


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## hanging in there

hanging in there said:


> In light of the recent Toronto Uber insurance case I thought it would be timely to throw out some of the info I've recently come up with comparing the two legit TNC "ridesharing" insurance options in California at the moment, besides full commercial coverage policies that most people can not justify or afford in Uberland.
> 
> I currently have the Uber-enabled version of Metromile. Based on my clean driving record, my vehicle (2006 Chrysler Town and Country Minivan) and my zip code of 92627 Costa Mesa, CA, and based on my selected coverages of:
> 
> Comp $1000 deductible
> Collision $1000 deductible
> Roadside assistance - included
> Car rental - none
> Liability 50k/100k
> Property damage 50k
> Collision deductible waiver $1000
> Personal injury protection - none
> Medical payments $1000
> Uninsured motorist bodily injury 50k/100k
> Uninsured motorist property damage - none
> 
> My Metromile policy is costing me $30.60/30 days, + 4.0 cents/miles up to 150 miles/day. Miles driven during Uber period 2 and 3 are at no charge.
> 
> Lyft and Sidecar rides, however, are not covered by Metromile, I am stuck with whatever those TNC's are covering, which, according to law as it stands now with AB2293, means that during period 1 with Lyft or Sidecar I am only covered by the TNC's liability... no comp, no collision, no uninsured motorist, no med pay.
> 
> The only advantage of Metromile during period 1 for Lyft or Sidecar rides is that they are not going to cancel the policy due to TNC use, they are "cool with it", they just won't pay anything during that period, I have no coverage from them.
> 
> So I got a quote from Farmers for their TNC policy today and for the same coverage as above, but more, I was quoted $130/mo. Here is the "more" part:
> Uninsured motorist property damage $3500 (nice but, a far cry from full property damage coverage), and, drum roll, here's the biggie...
> Period 1 coverage regardless of which TNC.
> 
> So just looking at the numbers, and ignoring the extra benefit of full TNC period 1 coverage across platforms, here's a rough breakdown:
> 
> If I subtract the $30/mo fixed Metromile premium from the $130/mo Farmers one, that leaves $100/mo. Clearly Metromile would be cheaper if I drive less, and Farmers would be cheaper if I drive more. What is the "breakeven" point?
> 
> $100/mo vs 4 cents per mile for personal or period 1 miles, which pencils out to 2500 miles per month personal (including commuting to start in a hotspot) and period 1 miles. I could think of it in many ways but let's just say that if I work 6 days/week and I put on more than 100 miles a day of personal and period 1 miles, then Farmers starts to be the cheaper alternative, with the added benefit of the full coverage of all Period 1 times, not just Uber.
> 
> Admittedly that means that for most of the UberX drivers Metromile would be a cheaper alternative since most UberX drivers are not full time, from what I understand. But if someone were to spend most or all of their time doing Lyft then Farmers might still be a serious consideration in order to fill the insurance gap.
> 
> Or... and this is the "gray area" that I still see with Metromile, let's say that the entire time you are in Period 1 you make sure that the Uber app is on, insuring that Metromile covers what Uber doesn't (everything but liability). How does that work? Would they say "Hey, we won't cover Uber period 1 because you also had the Lyft app and the Sidecar app on at the same time in period 1 as well"? I doubt that would be an issue, or a viable issue, unless the driver was stupid enough to bring it up.
> 
> Option 3, of course, is to continue to use a personal non-livery policy and take the chance that you will be the next "Toronto". But, in my case, it would cost me maybe half of what Farmers would charge me, so the trade-off in my case would be, let's say, saving $65/mo vs having a legit coverage in the case of Farmers, or a mostly legit coverage in the case of Metromile.
> 
> If I wind up doing TNC work "full time plus" like I used to do with taxi work then Metromile could easily cost me $200/mo, in which case I would certainly switch to Farmers and save $70 month and have more complete coverage.


I need to "edit" the last post to say that the agent did not quote me based on any estimated mileage. That could be a game changer. I need to call her back tomorrow and see about that. It could be that with the kind of mileage I tend to drive, Metromile might still be cheaper, who knows. I tend to put on about 80k mi/yr as a taxi driver, I have no idea if I would be doing that kind of driving if I decided to go full time TNC.


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## Sacto Burbs

Farmers I was quoted 10,000 miles per year $140/mo. If you never get into an accident, and they don't care. But if you go over the 10,000 miles and get in an accident, you automatically pay the higher premium retroactively before your deductible kicks in. That's what the agent said, I don't have it in writing


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## hanging in there

Sacto Burbs said:


> Farmers I was quoted 10,000 miles per year $140/mo. If you never get into an accident, and they don't care. But if you go over the 10,000 miles and get in an accident, you automatically pay the higher premium retroactively before your deductible kicks in. That's what the agent said, I don't have it in writing


I called today and got more info. It turns out that the mileage does in fact come into play with the Farmer's Uber policy. Here is what she quoted me for a 6 month policy based on various mileage scenarios for 6 months of driving:

5k mi/6 mo = $570, or about $95/mo
10k mi/6 mo = $605, or about $101/mo
20k mi/6 mo = $1061, or about $177/mo
40k mi/6 mo = $1089, or about $181/mo

If I estimate that I will mostly be driving Uber not Lyft, and that the total of personal miles, Period 1 Uber miles and all Lyft and Sidecar miles will come up to, say, 30% of my total mileage, then I can run a cost comparison to my Metromile policy based on the above mileages:

5k mi/6 mo= 833 mi/mo x .3 = 250 billable miles x .04 (4 cents per mile) = $10 + $30 (monthly base fee) = $40/mo, compared to $95/mo Farmers

10k mi/6 mo = 1667 mi/mo x .3 = 500 x.04 = $20 + $30 = $50/mo, compared to $101/mo Farmers

20k mi/6 mo = 3333 mi/mo x .3 = 1000 x .04 = $40 + $30 = $70/mo, compared to $177/mo Farmers

40k mi/6 mo - 6667 mi/mo x .3 = 2000 x .04 = $80 + $30 = $110/mo, compared to $181/mo Farmers

So I guess I need to retract my earlier conclusion. It seems that at least for me, it's going to cost me roughly 1/2 the price for Metromile compared to the Farmer's Uber policy REGARDLESS of mileage. Still, to be fair, Farmers is offering more complete coverage with no gaps in period 1 for Lyft and/or Sidecar only (Uber app off).


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## MarkR

chi1cabby said:


> The New Uber Driver Privacy Policy is being discussed here:
> *Uber's New Privacy Policy Admits That Riders (And Drivers) Have No Privacy*


Shocking!!!

Not!


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## MarkR

Paulie0902 said:


> Got a quote from a farmers agent. Normal personal auto policy with 18K miles is 860 for 6 months. To add rideshare they insure through Specialty and the base rate was quoted at $1220 and with rideshare endorsement that went to $1314. This is around a 65% increase not the 8% they are touting. Be warned.


I don't ever remember paying that kind of money for insurance. I have collision and full coverage and costs me $970/year

I don't get paid for commercials so my insurance co. Is a mystery.


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