# We all knew Uber was showing artificial losses, time to pay the price.



## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

*'Champions League of tax avoidance:' Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on nearly $6 billion in revenue, report says*









Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi. Riccardo Savi/Getty Images

Uber used around 50 Dutch shell companies to help reduce its global tax burden, an Australian research group found.
Despite earning $5.8 billion in global revenues in 2019, Uber claimed a $4.5 billion loss for tax purposes.
One researcher called Uber's alleged scheme "the Champions League of tax avoidance."
See more stories on Insider's business page.

Uber has been using a complex tax shelter involving around 50 Dutch shell companies to reduce its global tax bill, according to recent research from the Center for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research.
In 2019, Uber claimed $4.5 billion in global operating losses (excluding the US and China) for tax purposes — in reality, it brought in $5.8 billion in operating revenue, according to CICTAR, an Australia-based research group.
Uber had previously disclosed details about its Dutch tax haven in 2019, when it moved its intellectual property from Bermuda to the Netherlands, but CICTAR's research sheds more light on how the company has structured its network of shell companies.
"This is the Champions League of tax avoidance," CICTAR principal analyst Jason Ward told Dutch news magazine De Groene Amsterdammer.
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Uber did not immediately respond to a request for comment on this story.
Uber transfered its intellectual property through a $16 billion "loan" from one of its subsidiaries in Singapore that in turn owns one of Uber's Dutch shell companies, a manuever that grants the company a $1 billion tax break every year for the next 20 years, the researchers found.
"Uber has supercharged their tax avoidance approach," Ward told Insider, using an intellectual property tax break "to prevent future tax bills, turning it into a much more useful, viable tax structure in the Netherlands."
CICTAR also found several of Uber's Dutch subsidiaries hadn't submitted mandatory financial reports, and in India, Uber paid less than a third of the 6% tax the country imposes on multinational companies, according to the report.

"India is in desperate need of public revenue" to help it combat COVID-19, yet companies like Uber are able to avoid cointributing to that effort through tax avoidance schemes, Ward told Insider.
In Australia, CICTAR found that Uber was underpaying its tax bill by $30.5 million (AUD$39 million), according to Groene Amsterdammer.
Uber's sophisticated efforts to achieve little or no tax burden on multibillion-dollar global revenues highlights a long-standing challenge governments face in enforcing tax compliance among wealthy corporations and individuals across borders.
In response, some lawmakers around the world, including the US President Joe Biden, have lobbied for a global minimum tax and other measures to reduce tax avoidance, which the Tax Justice Network estimates costs governments $427 billion annually.









'Champions League of tax avoidance:' Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on nearly $6 billion in revenue, report says


Uber claimed a $4.5 billion global operating loss in 2019 for tax purposes, despite bringing in $5.8 billion, an Australian research group found.




www.businessinsider.com





I'm sure no one here is shocked to learn they were faking the whole loss of revenues, who loses money after taking 60% of the fare?

I hope they dig deeper and they **** them upside down.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Wonder how mid term elections willgo if Biden actually starts collecting taxes . . .


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

I been saying all along 
they have to be making money
They get 25k per year in profit 
just from my work
Thats alot of hookers and cocaine...


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## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I been saying all along
> they have to be making money
> They get 25k per year in profit
> just from my work
> Thats alot of hookers and cocaine...


That’s enough to fund 4 highly skilled driver support specialists!


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

The Entomologist said:


> In response, some lawmakers around the world, including the US President Joe Biden, have lobbied for a global minimum tax and other measures to reduce tax avoidance,


Of course the US and Biden want a Global Minimum Tax because the US would benefit the most. Why? Because we are the biggest losers of the tax avoidance issues. But remember, our loss is someone else's gain so those countries wouldn't be so hot for the globalist tax. Unfortunately, due to corp tax rates in the US corporations set up legal entities in other countries with lower tax rates and pass earnings thru those other companies they set up in lower tax countries. "Offshoring" profits has been going on forever.

The government could change tax law to stop this but they don't introduce any legislation so corporations do this fully legally.

This article is so poorly written it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny by first year Finance or Accounting majors. Surprisingly BI has a better reputation than this. The author mixes and matches incongruent statements in a way that makes it nonsensical. "Operating Revenue" isn't even close to "taxable Income".

Despite how poorly written it is the basic premise that Corporations go to great lengths to avoid taxes is undeniable. The thing to keep in perspective is this isn't illegal or fraudulent. They aren't "shell companies" they are legal subsidiaries. If the government doesn't like it they can either lower the corporate tax rate or change the existing tax law.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Seamus said:


> Of course the US and Biden want a Global Minimum Tax because the US would benefit the most. Why? Because we are the biggest losers of the tax avoidance issues. But remember, our loss is someone else's gain so those countries wouldn't be so hot for the globalist tax. Unfortunately, due to corp tax rates in the US corporations set up legal entities in other countries with lower tax rates and pass earnings thru those other companies they set up in lower tax countries. "Offshoring" profits has been going on forever.
> 
> The government could change tax law to stop this but they don't introduce any legislation so corporations do this fully legally.
> 
> ...


Amazing how people don't understand the difference between revenue and profit.

Makes me think the writer had to have done it on purpose.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

The Entomologist said:


> *'Champions League of tax avoidance:' Uber used 50 Dutch shell companies to dodge taxes on nearly $6 billion in revenue, report says*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you're going to screw the gov't legally out of taxes, you would also screw your ICs just as much. Case in point, the removal of the surge multiplier from the CA drivers. LMAO.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> If you're going to screw the gov't legally out of taxes, you would also screw your ICs just as much. Case in point, the removal of the surge multiplier from the CA drivers. LMAO.


With the government it’s called tax avoidance, with drivers it’s called pay avoidance! Same principle, pay as little tax as possible and pay as little to drivers as possible. Pay as little to anyone as possible except Dara and the top dogs.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Seamus said:


> Pay as little to anyone as possible except Dara and the top dogs.


....and to the investors.....at some point.....


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

SHalester said:


> ....and to the investors.....at some point.....


You’re dating yourself! There was a day when dividends really meant something and were important. Now so many corporations don’t pay them. Now everyone is a trader on Robin Hood and the focus seems so much on only stock price. As long as the stock price keeps climbing the new generation of investors could care less about profitability or dividends!  The problem is the young-uns aren’t fully grasping availability of cash. Many companies can be technically bankrupt but as long as they have a mountain of cash they can keep going. The rate that Uber burns through cash is absolutely alarming and not sustainable.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

observer said:


> Amazing how people don't understand the difference between revenue and profit.
> 
> Makes me think the writer had to have done it on purpose.


Maybe the writer is also a rideshare driver. Many of them don’t understand revenue vs profit either!!


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## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

Seamus said:


> You’re dating yourself! There was a day when dividends really meant something and were important. Now so many corporations don’t pay them. Now everyone is a trader on Robin Hood and the focus seems so much on only stock price. As long as the stock price keeps climbing the new generation of investors could care less about profitability or dividends!  The problem is the young-uns aren’t fully grasping availability of cash. Many companies can be technically bankrupt but as long as they have a mountain of cash they can keep going. The rate that Uber burns through cash is absolutely alarming and not sustainable.


You aren’t kidding. I bought dogecoin at $.06!


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I been saying all along
> they have to be making money
> They get 25k per year in profit
> just from my work
> Thats alot of hookers and cocaine...


Not necessarily. For years they had a bloated corporate office which Dara finally started to reduce. And for years they lost tons of money on their whole SDC fantasy. They also lost big money in several large international markets like China and India. I think their losses are most likely legit. Did they game the tax system to their maxumum advantage? Of course they did!! It’s Uber.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Seamus said:


> Now everyone is a trader on Robin Hood and the focus seems so much on only stock price.


well, I do have a robinhood account for wild speculation buys. Tesla, bitcoin and the the stable Apple. Which speaking of, they pay a whopping .24 cents a share like clockwork.

My official portfolio it is all about dividends, interest and distribution payments. could give a crap about 'gains'. I need the cash.


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## Taxi2Rideshare (May 17, 2018)

SHalester said:


> well, I do have a robinhood account...


Robinhood is on the trash heap of trading firms when it comes to day trading. Despite the outrage that followed after their interference of GameStop and other retail favorites earlier in the year, they continue to piss off traders. Just recently they pissed off a whole new generation of Dogecoin traders by preventing them from closing their ITM holdings, which robbed millions from traders who were later forced to face losses following the predictable Doge crash.

However, my beef with them is not Robinhood's exploitation of customers. Fankly, anyone with unexplained losses and still on their platform does not deserve my or anyone's sympathy (their bad practises are widely known by now). My biggest concern is that their customers' trades have zero impact on the market. For instance, take Dogecoin (which Robinhood continues to manipulate to cut losses) traders who buy Dogecoin on their platform do not own actual Dogecoins. The transaction is a transaction that completely bypasses the supply-demand dynamic of markets because Robinhood transactions do not go beyond its books. Ever wonder why Robinhood does not take your Dogecoin wallet information? It's simple, Robinhood does not process blockchain transactions.

It's why the issue of "synthetic shares" have become a serious issue among investors hoping for the SEC to ban them like they're banned on Canadian exchanges. Here, when it comes to synthetic shares, Robinhood is the biggest perpetrator of all.

This is not investment advice, but leave the platform before it burns you. So many others already offer free trading like Fidelity, Webull or TDAmeridrade.

If you don't wish to leave Robinhood, then don't ever make Market orders on its platform, only make Limit orders. Robinhood skimming them excessively is nothing new.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Taxi2Rideshare said:


> Robinhood is on the trash heap of trading firms when it comes to day trading.


I don't disagree. For me started with a competition with my wife's RH account (I won). I use it for the type investments I'd never buy with my 'real' portfolio. 

When the picks are positive ROE, it is merely better than a savings account return. 

And I've learned I don't prefer volatile investments, at all. 🤢


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Seamus said:


> subsidiaries. If the government doesn't like it they can either lower the corporate tax rate or change the existing tax law.


They'd have to lower it to zero, because as long as there's a tax haven somewhere in the world, big businesses will find a way to avoid taxes.

The tax loopholes in THIS country need to be closed. Take a look at the list of huge corporations that paid little to no taxes over the last five years.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Seamus said:


> Of course the US and Biden want a Global Minimum Tax because the US would benefit the most. Why? Because we are the biggest losers of the tax avoidance issues. But remember, our loss is someone else's gain so those countries wouldn't be so hot for the globalist tax. Unfortunately, due to corp tax rates in the US corporations set up legal entities in other countries with lower tax rates and pass earnings thru those other companies they set up in lower tax countries. "Offshoring" profits has been going on forever.
> 
> The government could change tax law to stop this but they don't introduce any legislation so corporations do this fully legally.
> 
> ...


Everything you wrote is accurate but there is one additional consideration. You are not allowed to engage in transactions that don't make business sense, solely for the purpose of avoiding taxes. Hard to prove but the law nonetheless.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Everything you wrote is accurate but there is one additional consideration. You are not allowed to engage in transactions that don't make business sense, solely for the purpose of avoiding taxes. Hard to prove but the law nonetheless.


*solely for the purpose of avoiding taxes*

And right there is the trillion dollar issue. Not only is it hard to prove as you say, but technically speaking they still owe the money but it is _*tax deferred* _and “deferred” being the proviso. If the money isn’t brought back in by an accounting transaction it is “deferred” forever. That is what would be needed to change to stop the practice.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> They'd have to lower it to zero, because as long as there's a tax haven somewhere in the world, big businesses will find a way to avoid taxes.
> 
> The tax loopholes in THIS country need to be closed. Take a look at the list of huge corporations that paid little to no taxes over the last five years.


I agree except they don’t need to lower it to zero. Many independent studies show if you lower it to about 14 to 15% most will find it not worth it anymore to offshore. That will never happen because the optics and politics make it toxic but it would result in much more tax revenue being paid.

I’ve been hearing politicians talk about “closing the loopholes” for decades. As I mentioned in the post above, technically the tax is still owed but is tax deferred. That specifically is what would have to change but It never actually happens, too much money in the Washington pot on both sides.


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## EM1 (Apr 28, 2019)

At this point it seems like American Uber drivers are essentially subsidizing UK Uber drivers since UK drivers now classified as employees entitled to all the perks benefits guaranteed ‘on the clock’ pay etc. So Scruber has to stick it to the U.S. drivers to compensate.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

EM1 said:


> At this point it seems like American Uber drivers are essentially subsidizing UK Uber drivers since UK drivers now classified as employees entitled to all the perks benefits guaranteed ‘on the clock’ pay etc. So Scruber has to stick it to the U.S. drivers to compensate.


The logical thing would be to raise UK rates to cover their increased costs but it’s Uber so almost anything is possible.


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