# Anybody Carry Mace or Pepper Spray?



## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

I had a ride last night that if I would have done what I wanted to do and pulled over and kicked one of the riders out of the car, it could have probably turned into a violent situation.

How do you handle extremely mean, disrespectful riders?


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## Joanne (May 7, 2014)

Thankfully I haven't had a situation where I felt unsafe. My husband wants me to carry pepper spray but I haven't bought one yet. I would contact support.


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## Nautilis (Apr 16, 2014)

I haven't felt unsafe doing this job. What happened during your trip, LookyLou?


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

Nautilis said:


> I haven't felt unsafe doing this job. What happened during your trip, LookyLou?


It was kind of a weird deal. I didn't really feel unsafe, but it could have developed into a possible unsafe situation if I would have pulled over and asked the riders companion to get out of my car.

The ping came in from a female with 5 star rating. When I made the pickup she entered the car with a male companion. She said they had 2 destinations. First stop to drop off the guy and then second to take her home.

I asked for the first destination and the guy said "4th & Jackson". Since the navigation sometimes won't take that type of request I asked if 401 Jackson would work, not knowing if those numbers would be accurate. He blurted out to "just go to 4th and Jackson". I had already entered the 401 Jackson into the nav so I took off following the nav directions. It was apparent that these two had just met that night and he was trying to get her to commit to going out with him in the future. She was giving him the run around but I was staying out of it. At one point the nav told me to turn right off of 4th but it wasn't Jackson so I slowed to almost a stop and asked if a right turn was correct. He said "****, just drive asshole. Don't you know what the **** you are doing old man? What did I tell you? Didn't I tell you? Your driving for us." At this point I would have liked to just pull over and ask him to get out and find another ride. But I could tell that the girl was uncomfortable as well and I just kept driving down 4th hoping that I am heading towards Jackson. The guy finally tells me to turn right on what was not Jackson and I roll down to his apparent destination. I was friendly and told him to have a good night. As he gets out of the car he throws $4 on the seat by the girl and leans in and says "You're a ****ing terrible driver old man".

Now that he is out of the car the girl apologizes profusely and gives me her address to enter into the nav. As we are talking and I am entering the address I see the guy in the rear view mirror heading from his building towards the car again. I just drove off and I could see him shaking his fist and yelling at me as we took off.

The rest of the ride was great. We had a great conversation about music, bands and concerts. We continued talking for 10-15 min after we arrived at her destination. I gave her a 5 star and didn't hold the guys actions against her. If he had been the actual customer he would have been out on the curb with a 1 star and he might have beat the shit out of me or damaged my car or something.


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## SoCal_Uber (May 2, 2014)

You exercised a great deal of patience with that fool. He probably
was being turned down for future dates and felt rejected, taking
out his frustration on you.

I don't know how I would have reacted since I'm so disillusioned driving for Uber
in the first place, he probably would have at least gotten a broken nose ( from me slamming on my breaks  ) before asking him to step out of the vehicle.

Mace/pepper spray would be ideal if he got physical with you, make sure you get the kind that police use ( not the impulse isle crap ).


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## SunSmith (Apr 20, 2014)

I bought my pepper spray off of Amazon. I keep it in the center console all the time.


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## Nautilis (Apr 16, 2014)

Sounds like you did a great job keeping your cool and not aggravating a bad situation. I don't know what I would do if faced with a similar situation. 

One thing I hear about devices that people carry for protection is that they are quite often grabbed away from the victim and used against them by the attacker. I'd suggest you keep them well hidden and only use them as a last resort. I also wonder what happens if you ever sprayed the pepper spray/mace inside the car. It's such an enclosed space. Would you get it as well? Would it ruin your car's interior? Not meaning to make light of protecting yourself in a dangerous situation, but consider just stopping the car, taking the keys, and getting yourself out of harms way. 

This thread has encouraged me to study the locations of all of the police stations in my area. Everyone should have 911 and the non-emergency police phone numbers in their speed dial


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## TheDudeAbides (May 4, 2014)

Had a similar situation actually picked up a group that wanted me to exceed capacity of my car. Then gave a west and instead of a east address when the gps had me take a turn he didn't agree with he started cussing me out and told me to turn off the meter, once I explained to him what happend he opted for him giving me directions, but he was heavily intoxicated so he forgot he was giving them to me and he got pissed again. Finely one of the girls that was with gave me the correct address and we got them there but it left a sour taste in my mouth. He was borderline violent so I am going to get a can of pepper spray just in case.


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## FLToddy (May 30, 2014)

I can tell you from personal experience, if you pepper spray in an enclosed space (like a car), you're taking a ride on porcupine in the eye express just like the recipient. You'll experience virtually the same symptoms; even with the windows down it will be ugly.

If you're going to count on pepper spray as protection, I'd highly suggest you get a small dose of it yourself to see how it affects you. It shuts some people down completely, and some people it has almost no effect on. If you're one of those it shuts down, you've essentially bound and gagged yourself if you spray someone in your car.

I'd personally opt for a squirt gun full of ammonia, less respiratory effect and should buy you enough time to get away without being incapacitated yourself. Just prepared for the fact that it could be considered anything from aggravated battery to deadly force so only use it when you feel that it would be justified. In most states, verbal threats would not suffice.


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

Maybe a stun gun would be better.


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

OK, Reality Check Time...

Pepper spray in many municipalities REQUIRES being trained & licensed; in LA for certain. Be careful: the legal system is packed w/ people that thought they were justifiably acting in self-defence but in fact were ignorant of local laws/ordinances. Do your due diligence regarding this per your location.

The Geek


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

@FLToddy: Vinegar would be better as most effective and no lasting damage an hour later. A verbal threat concerning serious bodily harm and/or loss of life constitutes assault & battery in CA.

@LookyLou: No frickin' way on the electric 'solution'; that's a misdemeanor assault.


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

The Geek said:


> @FLToddy: Vinegar would be better as most effective and no lasting damage an hour later. A verbal threat concerning serious bodily harm and/or loss of life constitutes assault & battery in CA.
> 
> @LookyLou: No frickin' way on the electric 'solution'; that's a misdemeanor assault.


I guess I will just have to settle for sticking with my concealed carry permit and leave it at that.


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

LookLou, Good! Not "Good!" for a sidearm but good because in your case that also allows you to carry less-lethal options. Using a firearm in an enclosed space w/ nowhere for the pressure wave to go will go straight to your ear canals and then? Permanent hearing loss/damage. Besides, even w/ my Kimber Ultra-Carry 2 (.45 acp, 3", trijicon sights) which fits the small of my back perfectly I can't stand wearing it in the car for very long, and not on my person is a non-starter.


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

Geek, I think it is funny because you seem to know so much about peoples rights. Mostly other peoples rights.

What about my rights? It's my private car. It's my private space. I'm sharing my private space with these riders. If they choose to insult me, do I have the right to ask them to get out of my car? If when I ask them to get out of my car and they start grabbing me, punching me, etc, do I have the right to defend myself? What means of defense would be justified taking into consideration their rights and mine?


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

Lou, Valid concerns all. Problem w/ our legal system(?) is that if things do in fact go completely sideways many folks will have ample time to pick over a decision we may have to make in less than 5 seconds (usually much less time) which is where, I'm sure you've heard it, the saying "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6." comes from. I am NOT advocating criminal's rights, only cautioning people to keep a cool head in the face of adversity and become competent in what the law requires in a given area re the use of force. It is YOUR and other drivers safety that concerns me, but if you're locked up, however unjustly, that sucks. You DO have the right to (professionally) eject them. I've checked this specific scenario w/ Uber management. A CCW is not, in my own personal belief, going to solve diddly unless applied to a less-lethal solution. When I teach women self defence moves (no specific technique - borrowed from all over the map) these would, in a confined and difficult to operate in space, involve the grabbing a thumb/finger and twisting HARD simultaneous w/ a downward motion slammed to the console between the front seats. This will bring a 300lb muscle-monster to their knees in pain. They will listen to you now.

Ultimately it's up to you. Please don't get caught up in a 'stand your ground' sitch like the case in Florida. No good can come from that. Of course you have rights and obviously it is your personal space. That however doesn't diminish the other persons' rights one tiny bit.


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## ballyhoo (May 27, 2014)

I carry a stun gun. It's legal in the state of California and Los Angeles as well, no permit or training required. It is velcro-ed right under my knees where no one can see it. Much better in an enclosed space than pepper spray. It was suggested to me by a female rider on my first night that I get protection. I'm glad she brought it up. Read the reviews and then for a giggle go to youtube to watch dumb guys trying it on their friends...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FPE6UN2/?tag=ubne0c-20

CA PENAL CODES:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=22001-23000&file=22610-22625

I've printed this out and keep it in my car for cops. Just in case...


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Can't buy or carry Mace, stun guns, any type of gun unless you are on specific authorised security detail. For us in Australia its about trying to calm a situation down. 

Got attacked twice years ago in my Cab, they're fitted with attack alarms which gets other cabs to the location pretty quickly. The 1st time, the two guys were soon outnumbered by responding cabbies and their ever present tyre levers. 

The second time was scarier, in a remote place but only one fella who screamed like a girl when the adrenaline kicked into me I guess and I was able to really hurt him. Never knew I could hurt someone before that night.


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## FLToddy (May 30, 2014)

Back in my "former life" when I had the opportunity to interface with people that were not coloring within the lines, I frequently received the old "I have the right of way" from pedestrians. Legally they were correct, and I assured them that we would put "I had the right of way" on their tombstone.

Similarly, there are two sides to this coin. One saves your financial and possibly your social life when you operating fully within the legal boundaries established by law. The other side saves your life and lets the chips fall where they may afterwards.

You have to decide the best course of action for yourself. I will say that I think about the risk every time I pick up a passenger, and back seat passengers are the most concerning for me. Worst case, I'm flooring it and telling them either we all live or we all die, their choice.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

I have pepper spray in a holster attached to the driver's side door. I've worked in EMS for 18 years, including training in Tactical EMS, so I've been trained in its use, and have experienced its full effects on more than one occasion. Unfortunately stun guns are illegal in MA, or I'd have one in the car instead. Never felt the need for it, never felt unsafe, but I believe in being prepared. The worst drunk I've encountered with Uber is a cakewalk compared to an average night in EMS.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> I have pepper spray in a holster attached to the driver's side door. I've worked in EMS for 18 years, including training in Tactical EMS, so I've been trained in its use, and have experienced its full effects on more than one occasion. Unfortunately stun guns are illegal in MA, or I'd have one in the car instead. Never felt the need for it, never felt unsafe, but I believe in being prepared. The worst drunk I've encountered with Uber is a cakewalk compared to an average night in EMS.


We could do what the French taxi drivers do, and carry our dogs with us!


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

I'll take my 'boss' (a cat) thanks. She can sniff out a problem person in a heartbeat and has claws at least equal to the one in the 'Cat Hero' video. "Tear 'em up Sky! That's a good girl!" She's sharp as a tack - pun intended.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

The Geek said:


> I'll take my 'boss' (a cat) thanks. She can sniff out a problem person in a heartbeat and has claws at least equal to the one in the 'Cat Hero' video. "Tear 'em up Sky! That's a good girl!" She's sharp as a tack - pun intended.


Did you see the post Jake put up about the hero cat in the YouTube thread?

That cat is a weapon! Just search "YouTube" In the search forum field and it will come up


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

I did see it; a while back I might add. Dog vs Cat? No contest. Speed, agility and extreme (as in normal) claws are no match for 'Man's best friend".


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

The Geek said:


> I did see it; a while back I might add. Dog vs Cat? No contest. Speed, agility and extreme (as in normal) claws are no match for 'Man's best friend".


Have you seen "Cat v Alligator" on YouTube?


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## SoCal_Uber (May 2, 2014)

Can always stay classy and get one of these......


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

SoCal_Uber said:


> Can always stay classy and get one of these......
> 
> View attachment 134


Did you get that picture of me off my Facebook? You dog!


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

No, but given the skin of gators I can imagine Tabby losing - UNLESS she got into it's maw and rapidly shredded it's tongue and 'mouth innards' i which case Tabby may go free...


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

Lou,

C'mon, you know SC_Uber is a total graphics art ****. Are you surprised? I'm not. He's obviously one clever & resourceful dude to make so many memorable images - sometimes in under a minute. Gotta appreciate that level of genius!


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## SoCal_Uber (May 2, 2014)

LookyLou said:


> Did you get that picture of me off my Facebook? You dog!


LOL.....Oh you mean this one?


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

OMG - SC_Uber has neither shame nor fear! You post on FB at your peril. WTF are reasonable grown-ups doing on that security/privacy nightmare that is FB ANYWAY?!?


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## SoCal_Uber (May 2, 2014)

The Geek said:


> Lou,
> 
> C'mon, you know SC_Uber is a total graphics art ****.


HA! Gotta have something to pass the time by with this small-ass Iphone screen in between pings!


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

You sir, are HARDCORE!


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## SunSmith (Apr 20, 2014)

Back to pepper spray/mace (btw, I do enjoy the graphics) - the guy that took down the Seattle University shooter used pepper spray while the bad guy was reloading. Granted, he had been trained.


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## SoCal_Uber (May 2, 2014)

F.Y.I. on California laws regarding mace & pepper spray :

*"Penal Code Title 2: Control of Deadly Weapons Chapter 4: Tear Gas Weapons Article 1: General Provisions Section 12403.7*
Notwithstanding any other law, any person may purchase, possess, or use tear gas and tear gas weapons for the projection or release of tear gas if the tear gas and tear gas weapons are used solely for self-defense purposes, subject to the following requirements:

(a) No person convicted of a felony or any crime involving an assault under the laws of the United States, the State of California, or any other state, government, or country or convicted of misuse of tear gas under subdivision (g) shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.

(b) No person who is addicted to any narcotic drug shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.

(c) No person shall sell or furnish any tear gas or tear gas weapon to a minor.

(d) No person who is a minor shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.

(e) (1) No person shall purchase, possess, or use any tear gas weapon that expels a projectile, or that expels the tear gas by any method other than an aerosol spray, or that contains more than 2.5 ounces ( 71 grams ) net weight of aerosol spray."


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## SgtMurphy (Apr 28, 2014)

Yeah I gotta say, I was in the Military Police and I've always found defensive spray to be pretty much useless, more dangerous to the wielder, and quite unnecessary and legally treacherous in MA. To tell you good people what I happen to keep in my vehicle and within reach would be a bad example, but I'm licensed up the yingety for all of it. This being said, I never feel unsafe, but for those that do: Go on amazon and drop less than 10 bucks on a kubaton. Keep it on your keychain and if you're really feeling in danger, calmly pull over, put her in park and walk out of the car with your phone and keys. Call 911 and walk away, defending your body with the little steel bastard if you need to...But really, you will be just fine on uber. I am somewhat experienced and the common criminal type has NEVER really ended up in my back seat. I hope this is everyone else's experience too, especially the ladies. Stay Safe, Drive On


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

SoCal_Uber said:


> F.Y.I. on California laws regarding mace & pepper spray :
> 
> *"Penal Code Title 2: Control of Deadly Weapons Chapter 4: Tear Gas Weapons Article 1: General Provisions Section 12403.7*
> Notwithstanding any other law, any person may purchase, possess, or use tear gas and tear gas weapons for the projection or release of tear gas if the tear gas and tear gas weapons are used solely for self-defense purposes, subject to the following requirements:
> ...


I'm not in CA, and not familiar with the laws there, but I did major in criminal justice in college, and laws can often revolve around technicalities. There is a difference between Tear Gas (CS), Mace (CN), and Pepper (OC). That law as posted would only cover tear gas, unless there was a court ruling on it (ie case law), or an addendum added to include the others.

I'd also point out that not all CS, CN, and OC are the same. You need to check the percentage of active ingredient, and delivery method (stream, fogger, foam). My personal experience is that a fogger is most effective, but also the most prone to being effected by wind. With OC, you also need to look at the SHU rating as well as percentage. Ideally you want something at least 4 million SHU, and as high a percentage as possible. The stuff I use is 18% 5 million SHU.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

SgtMurphy said:


> Yeah I gotta say, I was in the Military Police and I've always found defensive spray to be pretty much useless, more dangerous to the wielder, and quite unnecessary and legally treacherous in MA. To tell you good people what I happen to keep in my vehicle and within reach would be a bad example, but I'm licensed up the yingety for all of it. This being said, I never feel unsafe, but for those that do: Go on amazon and drop less than 10 bucks on a kubaton. Keep it on your keychain and if you're really feeling in danger, calmly pull over, put her in park and walk out of the car with your phone and keys. Call 911 and walk away, defending your body with the little steel bastard if you need to...But really, you will be just fine on uber. I am somewhat experienced and the common criminal type has NEVER really ended up in my back seat. I hope this is everyone else's experience too, especially the ladies. Stay Safe, Drive On


ASP makes one that also has an OC spray built in (only good for two or three quick sprays though).

But I agree, I've never felt unsafe with any Uber riders. Even with the drunk guy who thought it was funny to poke me in the back of the head while I was driving. He didn't find it nearly as funny when I dragged his ass out of the back seat and left him on the side of Storrow Drive at 3am. I wonder if he gave me a low rating...


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## SgtMurphy (Apr 28, 2014)

HA thank god I haven't had to take any measures against people in my vehicle. What a jerk.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

SgtMurphy said:


> HA thank god I haven't had to take any measures against people in my vehicle. What a jerk.


I suspect you already know this, but for any others who ever find the need to defend themselves, just remember this phrase; "I used the minimum amount of force necessary to defend myself, and prevent any further aggression by my attacker."


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## SoCal_Uber (May 2, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> I'm not in CA, and not familiar with the laws there, but I did major in criminal justice in college, and laws can often revolve around technicalities. There is a difference between Tear Gas (CS), Mace (CN), and Pepper (OC). That law as posted would only cover tear gas, unless there was a court ruling on it (ie case law), or an addendum added to include the others.
> 
> I'd also point out that not all CS, CN, and OC are the same. You need to check the percentage of active ingredient, and delivery method (stream, fogger, foam). My personal experience is that a fogger is most effective, but also the most prone to being effected by wind. With OC, you also need to look at the SHU rating as well as percentage. Ideally you want something at least 4 million SHU, and as high a percentage as possible. The stuff I use is 18% 5 million SHU.


In California, pepper spray is classified as tear gas.

http://wilmes.co/pepper-spray-is-tear-gas-in-california/
http://www.loyaldefender.com/pepper-spray-by-state/california/

Section 12403.7 says the following: "**any person may purchase, possess or use tear gas and tear gas weapons for the projection or release of tear gas if the tear gas and tear gas weapons are used solely for self-defense purposes**". Tear gas is synonymous with pepper spray in this penal code. Regulations include: selling to a minor, which in California is the age of 17 or younger. The following scenarios are classified under misuse and may land you up to three years in prison and a $1,000 fine. Scenarios classified under misuse: Using tear gas as a joke, deploying it in anger, the device is used by drug addicts.

"California state law allows for the possession and use of pepper spray (classified under "tear gas" in Chapter 4 of the 2008 Danger Weapons Control Law) "

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/list_6603774_california-guns_-tasers-pepper-spray.html#ixzz34Md0XEbS


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## SoCal_Uber (May 2, 2014)

OR you can just use your Uber Iphone to mace the nefarious passenger:










http://spraytect.com/products/


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> I suspect you already know this, but for any others who ever find the need to defend themselves, just remember this phrase; "I used the minimum amount of force necessary to defend myself, and prevent any further aggression by my attacker."





Just Some Guy said:


> I suspect you already know this, but for any others who ever find the need to defend themselves, just remember this phrase; "I used the minimum amount of force necessary to defend myself, and prevent any further aggression by my attacker."


I believe Boston is one of the "nicer" cities in the US. I'm sure that UBER with all its verification, tracking, cashless transactions and records provides a much safer platform for both riders and drivers.

But every city has its mean streets with some individuals who simply don't respect others and may see a driver hanging around as an easy target. Most attackers have the initial upper hand through surprise, rarely do you see it coming. Out of my 3 incidents, I only foresaw one of them coming.

When it does start happening just hope the assailant hasn't got a knife or some other weapon that makes for a very short encounter. It is also NOT the time to be thinking about measuring your response! you swing and hit as hard as possible! You don't want the other guy even thinking about getting up for a second shot at you.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> I believe Boston is one of the "nicer" cities in the US. I'm sure that UBER with all its verification, tracking, cashless transactions and records provides a much safer platform for both riders and drivers.
> 
> But every city has its mean streets with some individuals who simply don't respect others and may see a driver hanging around as an easy target. Most attackers have the initial upper hand through surprise, rarely do you see it coming. Out of my 3 incidents, I only foresaw one of them coming.
> 
> When it does start happening just hope the assailant hasn't got a knife or some other weapon that makes for a very short encounter. It is also NOT the time to be thinking about measuring your response! you swing and hit as hard as possible! You don't want the other guy even thinking about getting up for a second shot at you.


After 18 years in EMS my situational awareness is pretty good. I'm used to dealing with drunks, crazies, and drug addicts. "Nicer" is a relative term, although it is a lot better than it was in the early 90's. Had my ambulance shot at before, got a bullet hole through my jacket under my arm (didn't hit me though), and stabbed twice on the job. Can't even remember how many times I've been punched, and kicked. At least I have the solace of knowing that assaulting me is a felony that can get you 2 to 6 years.

Uber requires credit cards... that alone rules out most of the "trouble makers". Plus at 6', 280lbs, I don't exactly scream easy target.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> After 18 years in EMS my situational awareness is pretty good. I'm used to dealing with drunks, crazies, and drug addicts. "Nicer" is a relative term, although it is a lot better than it was in the early 90's. Had my ambulance shot at before, got a bullet hole through my jacket under my arm (didn't hit me though), and stabbed twice on the job. Can't even remember how many times I've been punched, and kicked. At least I have the solace of knowing that assaulting me is a felony that can get you 2 to 6 years.
> 
> Uber requires credit cards... that alone rules out most of the "trouble makers". Plus at 6', 280lbs, I don't exactly scream easy target.


Yeah, you are defiantly Multi-skilled! You can mess them up.... Then patch them up afterwards!


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

Glad to see you here Sergeant. As an addendum to the kubaton bit: remember with your keys you have something approaching a cat's claws. Aiming for the arms or torso, unless you know the various points (pain, disable & kill) you're likely to just piss-off an attacker. What SgtMurphy said about walking away is absolutely correct. Worst case and an aggressor follows you have a key between each finger of your strong hand and do your best for a swipe ACROSS or a diagonal on ass-hat's forehead. The reason for this tactic is head wounds bleed prodigiously and you want to blind your attacker w/ blood withOUT causing any serious lasting damage. Crooks can and do sue in this great land of ours. Applying a 'feint' w/ your weak hand first (armed hand 'cocked' out of their view, likely behind you) to get their hands low on the defensive is also advised.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

The Geek said:


> Glad to see you here Sergeant. As an addendum to the kubaton bit: remember with your keys you have something approaching a cat's claws. Aiming for the arms or torso, unless you know the various points (pain, disable & kill) you're likely to just piss-off an attacker. What SgtMurphy said about walking away is absolutely correct. Worst case and an aggressor follows you have a key between each finger of your strong hand and do your best for a swipe ACROSS or a diagonal on ass-hat's forehead. The reason for this tactic is head wounds bleed prodigiously and you want to blind your attacker w/ blood withOUT causing any serious lasting damage. Crooks can and do sue in this great land of ours. Applying a 'feint' w/ your weak hand first (armed hand 'cocked' out of their view, likely behind you) to get their hands low on the defensive is also advised.


I'd prefer to avoid drawing blood, all kinds of nasty risks involved with that. A quick jab to the throat will trigger a laryngospasm preventing any breathing for around 60 seconds. The vast majority of untrained attackers will cease aggressive action at that point giving you opportunity to escape, or to hit them a second time to ensure cessation of aggression (I'd go for a solid kick to the side of the knee).


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

I do see your point re blood but it also makes a nice marker for the police when (if) they arrive. Also, the larynx (frontal POV) is a tricky shot AND can kill if done 'improperly'.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

UBERX! holiday/retirement/workplace destination for Mercenary trained Customer Service Specialists!!


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

Watch who you're calling a merc Sydney; it's no compliment to those of honor. Now a 'merkin' that has possibilities...


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

The Geek said:


> I do see your point re blood but it also makes a nice marker for the police when (if) they arrive. Also, the larynx (frontal POV) is a tricky shot AND can kill if done 'improperly'.


True, and it would give you DNA evidence. Although you could also hit the eyes, or scar the face, which _could_ result in a charge of Mayhem (MGL ch 265 sec 14) in MA which is a felony. So it's not really a better option from a legal point of view. It would be easier to defend a death from an incapacitating move in self defense than intentional maiming and disfiguring. Especially since you have a living "victim" to testify in court.

As for potentially killing... I'm less concerned about that possibility in defending myself. My intent is to stop aggression quickly and with minimal escalation of force. I don't know if he has a weapon he's about to pull out, or if he has friends coming to help him, so my goal is to incapacitate quickly with the highest chance of success. Running is not a viable option in my opinion as that requires turning your back to an attacker (and I can't run fast or far anyway). Backing away could easily result in tripping over something, which would place you in a far more vulnerable position. So standing your ground is the better option in my opinion. I'm quite capable of justifying use of force in court, I've done it before. I spent a few years as a Special Police Officer in Boston before working in EMS.

I should also note that I do have self defense training (Jujutsu), although I am a bit rusty since I haven't actively practiced since college.


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

Hitting the eyes is a no-no. The goal is to incapacitate, not permanently harm or disfigure. Blood in the eyes will blind them and then a multitude of options present themselves. Getting the f away being priority #1.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

Of course ideally you want to avoid any confrontations to begin with, and generally simply being aware of who's around you will do that. Make eye contact with anyone who seems to be paying too much attention to you, that will let them know that you know what's going on.

and to paraphrase "Chef" from *Apocalypse Now*, _"never get out of the car"._


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

"_Absolutely God-damned right, never get out of the car; not unless you're prepared to go all the way. SoCal_Uber, he got out of the car. He split from the whole ****in program. Now he was winning the pings his own way..._"


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

I used to know a few Cab Drivers who used to start a night shift after a enjoying big Vindaloo and a can of Coke. Let that mix with gastric juices from the sub-continent for a few hours and you have a gas bomb able to clear any cab of trouble-makers!!


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## The Geek (May 29, 2014)

Sydney,

Remember that one. When UC writes our FUber exploitation comedy we'll include that on the accompanying 'Odorama' card. Should be memorable...


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## tonydimattes (Jan 22, 2016)

Nautilis said:


> Sounds like you did a great job keeping your cool and not aggravating a bad situation. I don't know what I would do if faced with a similar situation.
> 
> One thing I hear about devices that people carry for protection is that they are quite often grabbed away from the victim and used against them by the attacker. I'd suggest you keep them well hidden and only use them as a last resort. I also wonder what happens if you ever sprayed the pepper spray/mace inside the car. It's such an enclosed space. Would you get it as well? Would it ruin your car's interior? Not meaning to make light of protecting yourself in a dangerous situation, but consider just stopping the car, taking the keys, and getting yourself out of harms way.
> 
> This thread has encouraged me to study the locations of all of the police stations in my area. Everyone should have 911 and the non-emergency police phone numbers in their speed dial


Hi, Nautilis

I read your post and felt like sharing my views with you. See, situations make a person stronger. When we face them, automatically our sixth sense motivates us to face it heroically.

besides, there is no harm in keeping non lethal self defense items like pepper sprays, tactical flashlights, *tactical flashlight stunguns*, etc. All of these are fine self defense and are non violent. They actually help you in tackling emergency situations and offer you time to think for better alternatives to protect yourself from attackers.


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## Phoenix666 (Mar 6, 2015)

LookyLou said:


> I had a ride last night that if I would have done what I wanted to do and pulled over and kicked one of the riders out of the car, it could have probably turned into a violent situation.
> 
> How do you handle extremely mean, disrespectful riders?


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## LadyDi (Nov 29, 2015)

I haven't encountered anything rude other than a XXXX conversation between my rider and his gf on camcord thingy conversation. I do have a close rang stun gun and I do carry the bad kinda pepper spray. These are my "I just started Ubering" necessities to be upgraded to the tactical flashlight stungun and police version mace.


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## J W (Nov 23, 2015)

I carry a knife in my pocket at all times cant wait to use it


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

LookyLou said:


> It was kind of a weird deal. I didn't really feel unsafe, but it could have developed into a possible unsafe situation if I would have pulled over and asked the riders companion to get out of my car.
> 
> The ping came in from a female with 5 star rating. When I made the pickup she entered the car with a male companion. She said they had 2 destinations. First stop to drop off the guy and then second to take her home.
> 
> ...


Never make a stop not in the app, and never change the destination in your app. Make the account holder do it on their phone. If the app doesn't let them, then chances are they ordered, and you accepted, a Pool ride, and added stops and destination changes are not allowed.

If that's what they want/need to do, have them cancel and re-request. Tell them Uber tracks your car (which they can).

You always want the pax to put in any destination changes because sometimes they will contact Uber later and claim they didn't take the ride... that you must have taken the wrong rider. Your only proof of this not being the case is that the change came from their phone.


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## theMezz (Sep 29, 2018)

LookyLou said:


> Maybe a stun gun would be better.


If, by stun gun, you really mean a stu-gun - be advised they require contact with a person. Also if used on an intox, it often just pisses them off and they also often fail with the violent mentally ill.

"Mace" (the pepper variety) is much better and I suggest the gel - do it sticks. Also if you are outside try to be aware of the wind direction - so you do not "mace" yourself. If you get someone in the face (as your should) they will loose or have impaired vision for a while and have what they perceive as trouble breathing - allowing you to retreat, escape or inflect some physical injury if justified.

Also stun guns are illegal in most states where some types of pepper sprays are not.

I have used all these things on people more than once and have had all of them used on me. (with my previous job)


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## SJCorolla (Jul 12, 2017)

I once had to use pepper spray during an altercation between two POOL pax (different pickups) until the police arrived, and I must say it was not as effective as I thought it would be. Or at least the effect wasn't instantaneous -- the guy just wouldn't let go and kept the poor girl pinned to the ground, despite me spraying multiple times in his face. This was one of those Sabre compact-size canisters, the kind that is sold just about anywhere.

So I'm shopping for something more reliable to use next time. Maybe the stronger spray that police use? or bear mace? How well do those high-intensity tactical flashlights disorient an attacker?


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## Super27 (Jan 22, 2019)

SJCorolla said:


> So I'm shopping for something more reliable to use next time. Maybe the stronger spray that police use? or bear mace?


As counterintuitive as it seems, bear mace is actually considerably weaker than sprays designed for self-defense, and is generally considered ineffective for use against a human attacker.

Sabre Red has a pepper gel that's supposedly very effective. That's what I carry. Doesn't create a mist or vapor, which makes it slightly safer for use in a confined space. It does require you to aim for the eyes, as it doesn't create the "cloud" that can help disable them by just inhaling it.


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