# ? Tracking AB5 in Real Time - Link Provided ?



## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

Keep up to date on the passage of AB5 here:

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billStatusClient.xhtml?bill_id=201920200AB5


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

Taxi2Uber said:


> (For the record, I'm NOT Pro-AB5)
> 
> Employers are not required to reimburse you for mileage in most states.
> 
> ...


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

I'm a little ignorant on this bill, but will it actually help drivers? $12/hr is still the minimum wage in California. Granted, it's going to go to $13, $14 and $15 over the next three years but that's still not much. I make more than that driving U/L here in Utah. Yes, they'll have benefits, which does make a significant difference. But their take home pay will be static and they'll have different obligations to U/L such as scheduling. I'm not sure I'd dig that.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

losiglow said:


> I'm a little ignorant on this bill, but will it actually help drivers? $12/hr is still the minimum wage in California. Granted, it's going to go to $13, $14 and $15 over the next three years but that's still not much. I make more than that driving U/L here in Utah. Yes, they'll have benefits, which does make a significant difference. But their take home pay will be static and they'll have different obligations to U/L such as scheduling. I'm not sure I'd dig that.


Understood I am in Minneapolis but see it arriving here soon. I guess if the benefits outweigh the current situation it is a win if not it's a loss. But u have to think if Uber and Lyft are fighting this hard to stomp it out it must be better for the drivers and worse for them.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

SurgeMasterMN said:


> Understood I am in Minneapolis but see it arriving here soon. I guess if the benefits outweigh the current situation it is a win if not it's a loss. But u have to think if Uber and Lyft are fighting this hard to stomp it out it must be better for the drivers and worse for them.


For sure. The benefits alone will break them. Some don't realize the overhead of employee benefits. But when it comes to raw $$$'s, I think some drivers will be surprised to find that they're not going to be much better off. Chances are they'll earn less than taxi drivers, which aren't exactly rolling in the dough. And I wouldn't be surprised to see U/L "hire" a lot of drivers part time so they don't get benefits.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

losiglow said:


> For sure. The benefits alone will break them. Some don't realize the overhead of employee benefits. But when it comes to raw $$$'s, I think some drivers will be surprised to find that they're not going to be much better off. Chances are they'll earn less than taxi drivers, which aren't exactly rolling in the dough. And I wouldn't be surprised to see U/L "hire" a lot of drivers part time so they don't get benefits.


Very True they will figure out how to curve their expenses via part time. I think a lot of drivers want them both to fold so another company can come in and make it like it use to be when us veteran drivers started. I hear u it is a double edged sword but at this point what do we have to lose with rates still gettting cut. Minneapolis got that cut on Lyft Aug 21.2019 and the Regular rides on Lyft are:

*Reg Rides*
Per min - $0.195
Per Mile - $0.33

*XL Rides*
Per Min - $0.315
Per Mile- $0.6975

The mileage is basically half of what it was i had to stop doing Lyft XL because it makes no sense. I cannot imagine what regular drivers are dealing with. Even if you had an electric car you would be up against time to make what you use to. I figured you would have to work 28% More just to make up for the previous pay which was crap anyways.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

Wow. Those are terrible rates. We're still at 0.14/min and 0.58/mile for both Uber and Lyft here in Utah. Cross my fingers it doesn't change anytime soon. Select is 0.26/min and $2.25/mile but that makes up only about 1 in 20 of my trips.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

losiglow said:


> Wow. Those are terrible rates. We're still at 0.14/min and 0.58/mile for both Uber and Lyft here in Utah. Cross my fingers it doesn't change anytime soon. Select is 0.26/min and $2.25/mile but that makes up only about 1 in 20 of my trips.


Yeah it is pretty F'd. All I have done for 3.5 years is Uber XL and Lyft XL so that kills about a 1/3 of my runs xing out Lyft.

Here is the breakdown in detail along with driver reactions on Uberpeople and YouTube

https://uberpeople.net/threads/?-hey-lyft-thanks-for-the-28-pay-cut-?.346407/


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

losiglow said:


> For sure. The benefits alone will break them. Some don't realize the overhead of employee benefits. But when it comes to raw $$$'s, I think some drivers will be surprised to find that they're not going to be much better off. Chances are they'll earn less than taxi drivers, which aren't exactly rolling in the dough. And I wouldn't be surprised to see U/L "hire" a lot of drivers part time so they don't get benefits.


They are not going to pay for benefits, and its not going to break them.
They'll pay you minimum wage, give you a schedule to drive (how about 2am till 8am) limit your hours per week so you don't become full time, force you to take all pings no matter what and fire you if you don't. 
About the only good thing will be unemployment when you get canned.

I know the gov't likes W2 employees. Easy to track income for taxes and it keeps you 'in line'. Especially, ESPECIALLY if there is a union.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> They are not going to pay for benefits, and its not going to break them.
> They'll pay you minimum wage, give you a schedule to drive (how about 2am till 8am) limit your hours per week so you don't become full time, force you to take all pings no matter what and fire you if you don't.
> About the only good thing will be unemployment when you get canned.
> 
> I know the gov't likes W2 employees. Easy to track income for taxes and it keeps you 'in line'. Especially, ESPECIALLY if there is a union.


You could be right. I hope for the sake of Cali drivers that you're not. But even my best case scenario isn't that generous. The scenario you gave is outright savage.


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## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

All uber/lyft has to do is provide better rates for the drivers. And maybe mandatory 101 videos and tests for drivers on basic financing.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

losiglow said:


> For sure. The benefits alone will break them. Some don't realize the overhead of employee benefits. But when it comes to raw $$$'s, I think some drivers will be surprised to find that they're not going to be much better off. Chances are they'll earn less than taxi drivers, which aren't exactly rolling in the dough. And I wouldn't be surprised to see U/L "hire" a lot of drivers part time so they don't get benefits.


As a Free Market, Pro Business, 
Conservative ??, am staunchly opposed to the bill.

Am a driver; however, always take Uber's side. (Then I enjoy the laughs as the response rolls in)! ?

Of course am here, in Georgia, where it'll never pass. So, really just on here for entertainment. Because folks, I know precisely what's going to happen when this passes ?.

Uber On!
?


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> About the only good thing will be unemployment when you get canned.


No unemployment for you if "you knowingly violate a reasonable and consistently enforced workplace rule."


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## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

SEIU is the union behind AB5. It’s not in their best interest to protect the drivers. They will be another hand trying to take $$$ out of everyone’s pocket.

Careful what you wish for. Teaming with Satan is not a winning proposition.


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## Hans GrUber (Apr 23, 2016)

Uber is not a sustainable model when they tried bringing it to the masses. This bill is about the future of alllll gig economy employees and their protection. The point is that companies across the board are taking advantage of employees at an alarmingly escalating rate. Uber will fail regardless...


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

As said above if Uber and Lyft are against it, it has got to be a improvement for drivers. No one can deny that left to there own these companies will not stop lowering driver compensation until absolute bottom hits. Here in Tampa Uber pays .65 a mile and just under nine cents at .088 a minute how low can it go?

There is no doubt that both companies have taken full advantage of stating that they are a technology company who merely processes payment for us independent contractors. Labor laws have not caught up with them, they use the loophole of calling drivers IC while treating us as employees with flexible schedules. They come no where close to meeting California's ABC Test for determining IC status. 

They can allow us freedom to be true Independent contractors or let regulation decide things for them.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

There is going to be a lot of other people / companies that hate uber now, for ruining a good thing for them.


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

just raise the rates, there is no need to make drivers employees, much more difficult to deduct miles w/o schedule c, forced shifts where if you dont accept a 4.2 pool serial killer youll get fired, the bill not only doesnt provide health insurance, but your obamacare premiums will skyrocket without being able to deduct miles. You can not deduct miles if youre an employee since 2017
https://money.usnews.com/money/pers...o-know-about-claiming-a-mileage-tax-deduction
*CLAIMING A DEDUCTION for business mileage can be a good way to reduce how much you owe Uncle Sam, but the government is tightening up the rules for tax-deductible miles.
"It used to be an employee could deduct their mileage, but that is no longer (allowed)," says Bob Charron, a CPA and partner-in-charge of tax department for accounting firm Friedman LLP in New York City. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 eliminated itemized deductions for unreimbursed business expenses like mileage *

This is a political stunt by the "woke" democrats who only care about clicks or likes, not uber drivers. Why dont the woke democrats support a minumum rate per mile???? instead of making us make a minimum wage slave where most of us make more than 12 bucks an hour anyway and than adding all this control w-2 employees have to deal with.....take a potty break???? youre fired!!!!!


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

MoreTips said:


> As said above if Uber and Lyft are against it, it has got to be a improvement for drivers.


Don't think a negative imact for U/L necessarily benefits drivers. I would guess a lot of drivers will quit and those remaining will be whipped into super-ant schedules at min wage.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

I hear all sides on this it is tough to figure out what is the best direction to go. It appears to be an all or nothing approach. In a perfect world both sides could come to an agreement but my problem is Lyft and Uber have never been on the side of drivers and for them to put 90 Million against this and not in our pockets is telling.


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

losiglow said:


> I'm a little ignorant on this bill, but will it actually help drivers? $12/hr is still the minimum wage in California. Granted, it's going to go to $13, $14 and $15 over the next three years but that's still not much. I make more than that driving U/L here in Utah. Yes, they'll have benefits, which does make a significant difference. But their take home pay will be static and they'll have different obligations to U/L such as scheduling. I'm not sure I'd dig that.


the problem is that without regulation they can keep decreasing pay and making more demands on drivers leading to who knows where. they are out of control and need regulated. paying under minimum wage while taking upwards of 80 percent of the fare is not ethical, not lehgal as we are employees by the definition of the law, and is not good for society as a whole. imagine companies throughout the us seeing that they can label all their employees ic which means they dont have to pay minimum wage or follow employment laws, dont have to pay employer taxes as ic workers pay employee and employer taxes, and they can treat the workers any way they please. i for one dont see a society filled with ic workers as one that offers any quality of life. there is a reason employment laws and regulations exist!


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> SEIU is the union behind AB5. It's not in their best interest to protect the drivers. They will be another hand trying to take $$$ out of everyone's pocket.
> 
> Careful what you wish for. Teaming with Satan is not a winning proposition.


Agreed.
SEIU sucks.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

I hope uber pulls out of CA when this passes. Say goodbye to the taxi industry subsidies on every ride, goodbye to the tax on every ride, goodbye to the airport tax on airport rides.


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## The_Solo (Feb 23, 2019)

Ssgcraig said:


> I hope uber pulls out of CA when this passes. Say goodbye to the taxi industry subsidies on every ride, goodbye to the tax on every ride, goodbye to the airport tax on airport rides.


Lmao pull out of California. They can't. 2 of there 5 biggest markets are in California. LA and SF. Beyond they didn't pull out of New York. They will be forced to restructure but they aren't going just give up the market share in either market


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

The_Solo said:


> Lmao pull out of California. They can't. 2 of there 5 biggest markets are in California. LA and SF. Beyond they didn't pull out of New York. They will be forced to restructure but they aren't going just give up the market share in either market


Yup, they'll restructure a fair amount of drivers out of a job.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

losiglow said:


> I'm a little ignorant on this bill, but will it actually help drivers? $12/hr is still the minimum wage in California. Granted, it's going to go to $13, $14 and $15 over the next three years but that's still not much. I make more than that driving U/L here in Utah. Yes, they'll have benefits, which does make a significant difference. But their take home pay will be static and they'll have different obligations to U/L such as scheduling. I'm not sure I'd dig that.


the main thing is that we will be able to unionize and thats when the real benefits will kick in

what Uber is offering is absurd


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> the main thing is that we will be able to unionize and thats when the real benefits will kick in
> 
> what Uber is offering is absurd


Yeah!! You tell em. You should get $48 an hour while you are logged in. 4 weeks of vacation a year, holidays off. Paternal leave. Yeah because following a blue line on a screen deserves these things.

We all took the entrance exam and went to three in person interviews. It's a grueling process to be an Uber driver. It used to be you had to have a high school diploma, now they want a 4 year degree. And they expect you to speak the language of the country you are working in, it's ridiculous!! Now they also want you to have a drivers license for 5 years. What's next, we have to have a car that is newer than 10 years? We have to shower every day? We need to unionize, I don't like showering every day!


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Ssgcraig said:


> Yeah!! You tell em. You should get $48 an hour while you are logged in. 4 weeks of vacation a year, holidays off. Paternal leave. Yeah because following a blue line on a screen deserves these things.
> 
> We all took the entrance exam and went to three in person interviews. It's a grueling process to be an Uber driver. It used to be you had to have a high school diploma, now they want a 4 year degree. And they expect you to speak the language of the country you are working in, it's ridiculous!! Now they also want you to have a drivers license for 5 years. What's next, we have to have a car that is newer than 10 years? We have to shower every day? We need to unionize, I don't like showering every day!


you're right, it's better to do nothing than to do something


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> you're right, it's better to do nothing than to do something


Quit, there you can do something. When Uber folds, then Lyft will surely follow, what's you plan after that? What did people do prior to hitting the lottery and becoming Uber drivers?

Become an employee:

A 4 year degree, license over 10 years, accident free you get $2.50 a mile, $1.00 a min and speak language of country you work in. Get to chose hours
HS diploma, between 5-9 years license, you get $1.50 a mile, $.75 a min and speak language of country you work in. Must work 25 hours of Ubers choosing, 15 you get to choose
No education, license under 5 years and do not speak language of country you work in, $.35 a mile, $.08 a min. Get what ever shifts are left.

Everyone comes in for an interview, gets finger printed, photo of car and drug tested.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Ssgcraig said:


> Quit, there you can do something. When Uber folds, then Lyft will surely follow, what's you plan after that? What did people do prior to hitting the lottery and becoming Uber drivers?
> 
> Become an employee:
> 
> ...


the really funny thing is that you expect people to actually believe anything you say

even so, AB5 will pass and drivers will unionize and be better off and you'll be crying your eyes out


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Ssgcraig said:


> I hope uber pulls out of CA when this passes. Say goodbye to the taxi industry subsidies on every ride, goodbye to the tax on every ride, goodbye to the airport tax on airport rides.


Yeah cause its not like anyone else is going to jump in and take their place.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> what Uber is offering is absurd


What's more absurd?
Them offering it, or you taking it.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> They'll pay you minimum wage, give you a schedule to drive (how about 2am till 8am) limit your hours per week so you don't become full time,


They'll still need full time drivers for the Mon-Fri commutes.

The bedrock core and by far most important part of their business is the Mon-Fri commutes, most of which is done by FULL TIMERS.

Most of those drivers will QUIT if they can't work full time, and there's no way they'll be able to cover those shifts with part timers.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

losiglow said:


> I'm a little ignorant on this bill, but will it actually help drivers? $12/hr is still the minimum wage in California. Granted, it's going to go to $13, $14 and $15 over the next three years but that's still not much. I make more than that driving U/L here in Utah. Yes, they'll have benefits, which does make a significant difference. But their take home pay will be static and they'll have different obligations to U/L such as scheduling. I'm not sure I'd dig that.


From what I have been told, it brings U/L to the table. They would have to offer significant more


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> From what I have been told, it brings U/L to the table. They would have to offer significant more


They'll have to offer considerably more to keep drivers classified as independent contractors.

That's why drivers should tell them loud and clear that if they want to avoid the disaster of having drivers become employees, they'll have to pay and treat their drivers dramatically better.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

I want 5 years of back pay for being wrongly classified this would be for lunches worked holiday pay sick pay and overtime $45,000 should cover it.

Class action lawsuits are on the way it is going to be fun to watch.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Mole said:


> I want 5 years of back pay for being wrongly classified this would be for lunches worked holiday pay sick pay and overtime $45,000 should cover it.
> 
> Class action lawsuits are on the way it is going to be fun to watch.


You're chance is ZERO.

Education level?


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> You're chance is ZERO.
> 
> Education level?


9th grade One grade more advanced then Jethro


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

uberdriverfornow said:


> the main thing is that we will be able to unionize and thats when the real benefits will kick in
> 
> what Uber is offering is absurd


I get straight up hate on this forum for trying to explain how a UNION empowers workers.


MiamiKid said:


> As a Free Market, Pro Business,
> Conservative ??, am staunchly opposed to the bill.
> 
> Am a driver; however, always take Uber's side. (Then I enjoy the laughs as the response rolls in)! ?
> ...


just curious how come you are always on Uber's side? Do you take UBER HQ side over people who work for them? I think you have full rights to what your claiming if so. I am just curious. I personally use AB5 as a bargaining weapon for getting real IC status, not this pretend stuff. Nobody actually knows how this will turn out, so for you to say you know precisely what will happen is very very interesting. Will they give us better conditions and we support them against AB5? Or will they cut rates while this is going on and have more drivers go against them? Enlighten the masses if you have a prediction you seem confident about. Just like to know, not being a smart ass.



I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> I get straight up hate on this forum for trying to explain how a UNION empowers workers.
> 
> just curious how come you are always on Uber's side? Do you take UBER HQ side over people who work for them? I think you have full rights to what your claiming if so. I am just curious. I personally use AB5 as a bargaining weapon for getting real IC status, not this pretend stuff. Nobody actually knows how this will turn out, so for you to say you know precisely what will happen is very very interesting. Will they give us better conditions and we support them against AB5? Or will they cut rates while this is going on and have more drivers go against them? Enlighten the masses if you have a prediction you seem confident about. Just like to know, not being a smart ass.


Sorry I just realized it's you MiamiKid. I didn't mean to bug you or respond to your posts. My bad, I just realized it was you.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

losiglow said:


> For sure. The benefits alone will break them. Some don't realize the overhead of employee benefits. But when it comes to raw $$$'s, I think some drivers will be surprised to find that they're not going to be much better off. Chances are they'll earn less than taxi drivers, which aren't exactly rolling in the dough. And I wouldn't be surprised to see U/L "hire" a lot of drivers part time so they don't get benefits.


What benefits do full time drivers get that part timers don't get?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> I get straight up hate on this forum for trying to explain how a UNION empowers workers.
> 
> just curious how come you are always on Uber's side? Do you take UBER HQ side over people who work for them? I think you have full rights to what your claiming if so. I am just curious. I personally use AB5 as a bargaining weapon for getting real IC status, not this pretend stuff. Nobody actually knows how this will turn out, so for you to say you know precisely what will happen is very very interesting. Will they give us better conditions and we support them against AB5? Or will they cut rates while this is going on and have more drivers go against them? Enlighten the masses if you have a prediction you seem confident about. Just like to know, not being a smart ass.
> 
> ...


the people going against you are paid shills, don't worry about it

most drivers are tired of uber and lyfts bullshit and are for this bill



Taxi2Uber said:


> What's more absurd?
> Them offering it, or you taking it.


is that a rhetorical question ?

nobody is taking that deal


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

losiglow said:


> You could be right. I hope for the sake of Cali drivers that you're not. But even my best case scenario isn't that generous. The scenario you gave is outright savage.


And, you expect less than 'savage' from Uber?


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## Wehodriver84 (Jun 30, 2017)

SurgeMasterMN said:


> View attachment 352547
> 
> 
> Keep up to date on the passage of AB5 here:
> ...


Most drivers do not realize how or where the money is coming from that is cashed out of your car miles equity ! Uber Lyft charge 25 percent to allow you to tap into your cars equity ! It's like an equity advancement for a fee ! When your car is depleted , too old, or breaks down they move on to the next person ! It's a pyramid scam where the losers are the drivers ! People with good jobs don't typically risk their car to high risk driving, in addition your insurance may cancel you for rideshare activity! Any job at Starbucks or a retail store will pay you a wage for an hour and you don't have to factor in your costs because they cover everything! Uber Lyft is not a job !


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## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

Give me my flat 80% driver/20% uber split of the total, and I'll be happy.

With a set commission, Uber/Lyft can charge whatever they need to make a profit. They can also have promotions, discounts, specials or whatever they deem necessary to expand their driver/rider base. But it ALL comes out of their end. It's not the drivers fault that Uber is spending too much on research and development at the expense of drivers. It's not the drivers fault that uber wants to bulldoze their way into other cities and countries and then have to pay huge fines, lawsuits, and "bribes" or even lobbyists to get their way.

*Pay me a fair RATE for running my car into the ground*....This was supposed to be a part time "gig" not a full time job!.....If you still want me to work more than 15 hours a week doing this then you are going to have to compensate me for it!!!.......Dam, if I can only do this for 15 hrs. a week, PAY a fair price.


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## Jon77 (Dec 6, 2018)

losiglow said:


> I'm a little ignorant on this bill, but will it actually help drivers? $12/hr is still the minimum wage in California. Granted, it's going to go to $13, $14 and $15 over the next three years but that's still not much. I make more than that driving U/L here in Utah. Yes, they'll have benefits, which does make a significant difference. But their take home pay will be static and they'll have different obligations to U/L such as scheduling. I'm not sure I'd dig that.


We are the canary in the coal mine, too many unknowable unknowns.
Uber is fighting tooth and nail against it.
What is good for uber is generally not good for drivers.
But does that mean that what is terrible for uber is good for drivers?
We will know in a few months.

The status quo was not sustainable though, something had to change.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

From Ben Adler's twitter.

"#Dynamex amendments crossed the #caleg desk at 8:01pm Friday, which means #AB5 can pass the state Senate no earlier than 8:01pm Monday. (Tuesday is more likely.) "


So Tuesday likely.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

everythingsuber said:


> From Ben Adler's twitter.
> 
> "#Dynamex amendments crossed the #caleg desk at 8:01pm Friday, which means #AB5 can pass the state Senate no earlier than 8:01pm Monday. (Tuesday is more likely.) "
> 
> So Tuesday likely.


Thanks for the update ?


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> the really funny thing is that you expect people to actually believe anything you say
> 
> even so, AB5 will pass and drivers will unionize and be better off and you'll be crying your eyes out


The only thing funny was my post. I purposely exaggerated the entrance requirements to illustrate a point, it takes next to nothing to be an Uber driver yet people want to make 100K a year for sitting in their living rooms. Unionize? That will never happen with Uber, unions are counter productive in todays job market.

Unlike a lot of Uber drivers, I work 15-20 hours a week for a measly $500. Uber isn't meant to be a career choice, just like any other low skilled job (Mcd's).

Good luck, you will need it.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

losiglow said:


> I'm a little ignorant on this bill, but will it actually help drivers? $12/hr is still the minimum wage in California. Granted, it's going to go to $13, $14 and $15 over the next three years but that's still not much. I make more than that driving U/L here in Utah. Yes, they'll have benefits, which does make a significant difference. But their take home pay will be static and they'll have different obligations to U/L such as scheduling. I'm not sure I'd dig that.


GREAT QUESTION!!
The time scheduling is a myth. No one - NO ONE - knows that just because drivers might be entitled to benefits and protections that it also means they lose the ability to choose their schedule. Might happen in the long run - might not.

IMO, what's important to understand about all of this is that the US Congress determined that workers should not be subject to manipulation and exploitation and in order to protect labor (that's you and me) that the law of the land (the FLSA - Fair Labor and Standards Act) includes a provision forbidding a worker from waiving their rights under the FLSA.

In other words, you can't say:
_"hey, employer - I'll work for less than min wage if you hire me"_
And an employer can't say to you:
_"you can work if you waive your right to over-time pay"_

It took most of 50 years, but employers, by small wins in courts regarding the FLSA (along with some losses), have figured out that they can get around federal employment law (and class action lawsuits) by mis-classifying workers as independent contractors, enabling them to:

Avoid their responsibilities as employers to contribute to federal employment programs (Unemployment insurance, OSHA requirements, etc.) 
Literally 'steal' back the ~7.5% contribution they would normally have to make in employer taxes and put that burden on the back of the worker
Avoid any and all Health Insurance requirements to which they might be subject
*Legally move an enormous portion of their actual operating expense to the worker*.

The whole 'gig-economy' business model is based on that scenario:

shift costs to workers
avoid employer tax responsibilities
side-step dealing with workers federally guaranteed rights
Congress has had the opportunity for more than a decade to create a new worker classification under the FLSA (something like '_employed contractor_' or '_independent employee_' that would meet the needs of both employers and workers - but as with most things these days, just like the Supreme Court decisions of late, *Congress has kicked the can down the road*.

California's economy, ($3.018 trillion in 2018) is the largest in the US - and *if the state were independent, it would be the 5th largest economy in the world*. The state does not have the luxury to wait to see what, if anything, the federal government will do. This is why CA is so proactive legislatively. It's not unusual for the US Congress to follow CA's lead.

And it's not just the liberal nut-cases in the CA legislature that make these laws - it's also the right-wing nut-cases. And it all works because CA also allows it's citizen's to judge what the legislature is (or isn't) up to through a Proposition process which allows enough concerned residents to put measures on the statewide ballot that, if passed and are determined to be constitutionally legal, the legislature must follow. Imagine that: power to the people.

That's about as succinctly as I can describe the situation without writing a book - which I'm not qualified to do anyway.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

AB5 has passed...

Watch what happens to Uber and Lyft Stock












everythingsuber said:


> From Ben Adler's twitter.
> 
> "#Dynamex amendments crossed the #caleg desk at 8:01pm Friday, which means #AB5 can pass the state Senate no earlier than 8:01pm Monday. (Tuesday is more likely.) "
> 
> So Tuesday likely.


You called it ?


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

SurgeMasterMN said:


> AB5 has passed...
> 
> Watch what happens to Uber and Lyft Stock
> 
> You called it ?


But shares of Lyft popped more than 5.1% on Wednesday morning, while Uber climbed more than 1.9% on Wednesday in futures trading as of 9:30 am.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> But shares of Lyft popped more than 5.1% on Wednesday morning, while Uber climbed more than 1.9% on Wednesday in futures trading as of 9:30 am.


I know pretty upside down world huh....

Up is Down Down is Up...

Looks like Deutsche Bank is going to work on Lyft Stock.

Will see where this goes long term...


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

Newsom Passed it and it starts Jan 1,2020

Let's see what happens....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/california-governor-signs-labor-law-174612738.html?.tsrc=rss


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## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

SurgeMasterMN said:


> Newsom Passed it and it starts Jan 1,2020
> 
> Let's see what happens....
> 
> ...


THIS ****INg GUY! he *NEEDS* to be required to drive uber for a full year, and bathe in the vomit of the PAX, and make sure that his nard sack is in a vice, and he HAS to smile the whole time, and whistle a pleasant tune....or NO MONKEyS for THIS banana! ....

I sweartoGAWD if I didn't know better, Id say he's a coke head. Just SAYYYING!

And NO SURGE for twosome noisiness

and yeah, I *will* female dog about it.... all dayaaaaaa long


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

Greenfox said:


> THIS @@@@INg GUY! he *NEEDS* to be required to drive uber for a full year, and bathe in the vomit of the PAX, and make sure that his nard sack is in a vice, and he HAS to smile the whole time, and whistle a pleasant tune....or NO MONKEyS for THIS banana! ....
> 
> I sweartoGAWD if I didn't know better, Id say he's a coke head. Just SAYYYING!
> 
> ...


If this does pan out to be good for drivers then it is Newsome 2024.

I'm voting Trump this year though...

You know Newsom has done bumps with the best of them. Sniff Sniff ❄


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Uber CLO Tony West is Kamala Harris' brother in law. Twitter wars with journalists, opinions on paid articles etc. He has become Uber’s public face.

Lyft CPO Anthony Foxx served as President Barack Obama’s transportation secretary from 2013 to 2017. Probably he will be Lyft's public face.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

Great Video to see how AB5 will effect drivers in California and eventually Nationwide.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Uber and Lyft want to waste 70 million thats up to them I guess. It won't be close. Think New York becomes next battle. Maybe hear something there after the 16th. They're aiming at a stronger version of AB5. Uber are going to need a new plan anyway.

A majority of voters, 50%, support AB 5 which gives gig workers for companies like Uber and Lyft to be given full employee status, meaning they would be entitled to holiday and sick pay. 24% of voters oppose the bill and 27% are undecided. There is also a partisan divide on this issue, as 60% of Democrats are in support opposed to just 33% of Republicans and 47% of Independents.

https://emersonpolling.reportablene...cratic-primary-harris-struggles-in-home-state


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

SurgeMasterMN said:


> Great Video to see how AB5 will effect drivers in California and eventually Nationwide.


 Exited from this great video at 00.25 as the presenter inserted Uber's fair rental ad.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

XPG said:


> Exited from this great video at 00.25 as the presenter inserted Uber's fair rental ad.


It was a good video. The dude that did that video is against AB5 and they lay out what could happen with the bill now passed. It made things more clear.

He is just a capitalist like anyone else does that is providing valuable content.



UberBastid said:


> But shares of Lyft popped more than 5.1% on Wednesday morning, while Uber climbed more than 1.9% on Wednesday in futures trading as of 9:30 am.


I wonder how the market will treat them tomm and going forward? Stocks will probably rise but who knows....


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

SurgeMasterMN said:


> It was a good video. The dude that did that video is against AB5 and they lay out what could happen with the bill now passed. It made things more clear.


 The dude lost me, as son as I heard the Uber Fair Rental ad. I can't stand Rideshare bloggers/YouTubers anyways. And shady politicians. As a supporter of Obama, I didn't hesitate to drop his approval rating 10 points just because Anthony Foxx- transportation secretary from 2013 to 2017 became Lyft's Chief Policy Officer. Lyft was born in 2013, grew up under his watch and now he is CPO.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

The public support is going to be behind these sorts of laws,

The hilarious thing is that most (that i've talked to) can't even begin to fathom just how underpaid the uber drivers are in many markets (Orlando being the worst but that's beside the point)

I fully these laws getting put into effect and the cost of an uber skyrocketing and collapsing the whole house of cards state by state. About 10 states in uber/lyft will be history.

Then the people will ask why rates were increased by such a wide margin and uber/lyft won't have an awnser.


I'm looking forward to this disaster.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

*AB5 gig work bill: All your questions answered*
https://www.sfchronicle.com/author/carolyn-said/

*Employees are entitled to benefits such as minimum wage, workers' compensation, unemployment insurance, expense reimbursement, paid sick leave and paid family leave. Employers pay half of employees' Social Security tax.*

https://www.sfchronicle.com/busines...ur-questions-answered-14441764.php?psid=oHWzK


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Copied the text for those who hit their limit on the SF chronicle (use tor btw)

Groundbreaking new California legislation impeding many companies from claiming workers are independent contractors takes effect in 2020. AB5 passed the Senate and Assembly last week, and Gov. Gavin Newsom has indicated he will sign it. _(Update: He signed AB5 Wednesday.)_ Here are answers to questions about the gig work bill.

*Q: At the stroke of midnight on Dec. 31, will every Uber and Lyft driver in the state, plus all the other affected workers, turn into employees, like Cinderella's coachmen transforming back into mice? *

*A:* Nope. As much as some might want a gig economy magic wand, it's a lot more complex than that.

*Q: So what does AB5 actually do? *

*A:* AB5 codifies, clarifies and grants exemptions to a 2018 California Supreme Court decision called Dynamex. Both AB5 and Dynamex make it harder for companies to label workers as independent contractors. They use an "ABC" test that says workers are employees if (A) they perform tasks under a company's control, (B) their work is integral to the company's business and (C) they do not have independent enterprises in that trade. It takes effect Jan. 1.

*Q: How is being an employee different from being a contractor?*

*Related Stories*


 

*Biz & Tech
By Carolyn Said
Uber: We'll fight in court to keep drivers as independent...*

*Biz & Tech
By Carolyn Said
Uber driver sues over employment status, citing California's...*
*Biz & Tech
By Carolyn Said and Dustin Gardiner
California legislature passes AB5 gig-work bill, which could...*
 

*A:* Employees are entitled to benefits such as minimum wage, workers' compensation, unemployment insurance, expense reimbursement, paid sick leave and paid family leave. Employers pay half of employees' Social Security tax.

*Q: Why don't companies want to reclassify workers as employees?*

*A:* It's a lot more expensive - all those benefits can add 30% to labor costs. Plus, employers prefer the flexibility they have with freelancers.

*Q: What are ride-hailing companies doing in response? *

*A:* Uber and Lyft - and probably other gig companies - maintain that their workers still qualify as independent contractors under AB5's stricter test. They'll make that argument in court and through arbitration and will not reclassify drivers unless a judge forces them to.

*Q: Who is exempt from AB5? Why?*

*A:* Dozens of professions won exemptions to AB5, usually on the grounds that they set or negotiate their own rates, communicate directly with customers, and make at least twice minimum wage. They include doctors, psychologists, dentists, podiatrists, insurance agents, stock brokers, lawyers, accountants, engineers, veterinarians, direct sellers, real estate agents, hairstylists and barbers, aestheticians, commercial fishermen, marketing professionals, travel agents, graphic designers, grant writers, fine artists, enrolled agents, payment processing agents, repossession agents and human resources administrators. There are exceptions for photographers, photojournalists, freelance writers, editors or newspaper cartoonists who make 35 or fewer submissions a year, as well as for some types of business-to-business activities.

*Q: What do workers who haven't been exempted want?*

*A:* Some ride-hail drivers and other gig workers want to be employees; some don't. Translators, some medical professionals and truck owner-operators seem uniform in their desire to remain freelancers. Among other professions, there's no clear consensus.

*Q: So which workers will end up being reclassified as employees?*

*A:* Smaller companies that lack the big bucks for extended court battles may decide to reclassify their workers as a preemptive move. Lawyers say they are getting daily inquiries from clients across a range of industries about how to prepare for AB5, and some companies are already switching over.

*Q: What does organized labor have to do with this? *

*A:* Unions want to organize Uber and Lyft drivers and others. Expect to see a bill introduced in 2020 allowing gig workers to unionize.

*Q: How will AB5 be enforced?*

*A:* Various California agencies, including the Labor Commissioner's Office, the Employment Development Department and the Franchise Tax Board, have authority over workers misclassification. But their efforts mainly happen via individual cases. For larger changes, expect to see a rash of lawsuits, both from the private bar and from public attorneys. AB5 empowers the attorney general, city attorneys in large cities, and local prosecutors to sue companies over violations. The city attorneys of San Francisco and Los Angeles both appear ready to act on this. It would take a judge's order to force Uber and Lyft to reclassify - and it's likely they'd fight their cases for years.

*Q: Does AB5 have ramifications beyond California?*

*A:* Yes. California is a trendsetter; other states, including New York, are eyeing similar bills. At the national level, Sen. Bernie Sanders, independent-Vt., has introduced the Workplace Democracy Plan, which takes a similar approach to AB5. He and many other Democratic presidential candidates, including Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg and Julián Castro, support AB5.

*Q: Why do Uber and Lyft care so much about this? *

*A:* Both companies are newly public and lose money hand over fist. Treating their California drivers as employees could cost Uber $500 million a year and Lyft $290 million a year, according to a Barclays analysis. The companies say their business models rely on flexibility and that it will be harder to ensure that rides are always available with an employment model.

*Q: If ride-hail drivers become employees, how would their working conditions change?*

*A:* Uber and Lyft say drivers' current ability to log in and log out at will would vanish. They say they would have to impose set schedules, bar drivers from working for competitors, and limit the number of drivers so they're not paying for idle time. AB5 proponents say these are scare tactics. "Nothing in this act is intended to diminish the flexibility of employees to work part-time or intermittent schedules or to work for multiple employers," says language added to AB5 this month.

*Q: Will Lyft and Uber rides cost more if drivers are employees? *

*A:* That's up to the companies - but they already lose money and probably would need to mitigate the extra costs of employment. So it's possible that they'd increase prices.

*Q: What other impacts might consumers see?*

*A:* Generally, the costs of goods and services might go up as companies seek to recoup added labor costs. Health care providers say they might not be able to staff remote clinics or hard-to-fill jobs if they are forced to hire medical specialists who prefer flexible work as employees.

*Q: What is the alternative proposal from the ride-hail companies?*

*A:* The companies want to create a new category of workers called network drivers who would be independent contractors but able to receive an earnings guarantee and some benefits, as well as having a unified voice to communicate with management. Uber has suggested an earnings floor of 1.27 times minimum wage (calculated as a weekly average), plus 30 cents a mile for expenses. Lyft has suggested $21 an hour including expenses. Both would apply only from the time a driver accepted a ride request until the ride concluded - not to the "deadhead" waiting time.

*Q: How are Uber and Lyft trying to make their proposal a reality?*

*A:* The companies still want to negotiate with labor leaders and lawmakers in hopes of a legislative solution. Gov. Gavin Newsom says he encourages the talks to continue. But if that doesn't happen, they will take their cause directly to the voters.

*Q: What's up with the ballot proposition?*

*A:* Uber, Lyft and DoorDash have contributed $30 million apiece to a fund to work toward placing a measure on the November 2020 ballot. While the text won't be written until next month, it's likely to seek to create a network driver category of independent contractors with a wage floor and some benefits, but not include a driver-voice component.

*Q: What happened at the last minute with newspapers? *

*A:* Newspapers say that reclassifying delivery carriers would hurt them financially. They won a one-year reprieve on this via AB170, a bill that passed both houses Friday evening at the last moment of the current legislative session. They hope the breathing room will help them devise alternative rules.

*Q: Is AB5 set in stone, or could there be more legislative changes?*

*A:* There could be more changes when the Legislature reconvenes in 2020. For one thing, industries such as truck owner-operators continue to lobby fiercely for exemptions. For another, Uber, Lyft and other gig companies still hope to win passage of their alternative. And labor will be seeking the right to unionize for gig workers.

_Editor's note: This story has been updated to include the full name of the California Labor Commissioner's Office._

_Chronicle staff writers Dustin Gardiner and Alexei Koseff contributed to this report._

_Carolyn Said is a San Francisco Chronicle staff writer. Email: [email protected] Twitter: @csaid_


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## Molongo (Aug 11, 2018)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> I get straight up hate on this forum for trying to explain how a UNION empowers workers.
> 
> just curious how come you are always on Uber's side? Do you take UBER HQ side over people who work for them? I think you have full rights to what your claiming if so. I am just curious. I personally use AB5 as a bargaining weapon for getting real IC status, not this pretend stuff. Nobody actually knows how this will turn out, so for you to say you know precisely what will happen is very very interesting. Will they give us better conditions and we support them against AB5? Or will they cut rates while this is going on and have more drivers go against them? Enlighten the masses if you have a prediction you seem confident about. Just like to know, not being a smart ass.
> 
> ...


Miamikid smh


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## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)




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