# Heat map has nothing to do with displayed Prime Time percentage



## Lyft_94110 (Nov 16, 2015)

I noticed yesterday -- and I think it's been true for a few days -- that the "heat map" display no longer matches the Prime Time percentage displayed at the top of the window.

For example:








When we see more than one color of pink, we would expect the "Prime Time" percentage at the top of the window to show a range of "Prime Time" enhancements to fares, such as 25-100%. The map above shows a range of colors ("heat" tiles) but no range of "Prime Time" enhancements.

I tweeted to @AskLyft:
@asklyft why is the app showing a single prime-time percentage when the map shows gradations of prime-time surge?​
They replied:
The Heat Map is not an indication of Prime Time, but areas where more ride requests are being created.​Then I said:
if that is the case, then how do drivers know whether they are in a surge area or not?​They replied:
You will not be informed if the ride was a Prime Time request when you receive the request.​Then I said:
what you're saying is that the primetime % indicator is completely meaningless for drivers, if we can't base decisions on it.​They replied:
No, not every ride in those areas will be a Prime Time ride. You can learn more at https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/214586017-Prime-Time-for-Drivers &#8230;.​So let's see what that has to say.

Drivers will see a notice if a ride was Prime Time on the passenger rating screen once the ride is over. Daily summaries will also mark Prime Time rides in green.

_(Actually, the last sentence is no longer true. Daily summaries are formatted differently now, giving less information.)_​
Heat Maps allow a driver to see where they're needed most. The app displays the areas of highest demand in real time. The shaded sections show where Prime Time is in effect. Heat Maps are viewable while online or offline in the Driver Console.​
Remember, Prime Time is determined by the location where a passenger places their request, so even if you're waiting in a shaded area, not every request will have Prime Time. The best way to know whether a ride was Prime Time is on the post-ride earnings screen or your daily summary.​
So, to sum up:

The "Prime Time %" display on the maps is essentially meaningless. You have absolutely no way of knowing whether you are in a "prime time area" (as we used to think of it). 
Heat maps are only approximations of demand and have nothing to do with whether a pickup in those areas has a fare enhancement.


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## Lyft_94110 (Nov 16, 2015)

To take better examples, attached are two screenshots from just now. The first shows the map with different shades of pin and no Prime Time percentage display. The second, taken a few minutes later, has a Prime Time percentage display. My contention is that the first map is actually more honest: You can't know when or where they're adding Prime Time enhancements to rides, so I would rather they didn't even display it.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Or you cpuld just click around in paxmode and see some interesting stuff


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## Andre Benjamin 6000 (Nov 11, 2016)

Smh...

Don't reinvent the wheel just use the search feature.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

in other words the prime-time percentage that comes and goes at the top of our screen is 100% worthless.


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## Lyft_94110 (Nov 16, 2015)

AllenChicago "in other words the prime-time percentage that comes and goes at the top of our screen is 100% worthless."

I think that's the case. At best, it seems no more than a tease.

I asked Lyft support this question. They replied (emphasis mine):
Heat Maps allow a driver to see where they're needed most. The app displays the areas of highest demand in real time. _The shaded sections show where Prime Time is in effect._ Heat Maps are viewable while online or offline in the Driver Console.​So they seem to be saying:

There is no Prime Time enhancement outside a shaded area.
Even if you are in a shaded area, there is no assurance that your ride will have any Prime Time enhancement. 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## MiddleClassedOut (Jun 11, 2015)

Red is 100% or better, pink is < 100% and possibly nothing. The screen shows the lowest-highest Prime Time zones, it's up to you to use the PAX app to figure out where they are.


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## sfodriver (Nov 19, 2016)

The percentage at the top is pretty dumb to say the least. You could be somewhere entirely different and the percentage will show because it is based on your home area. Somewhere in that home area there is a heat map to be found. Sometimes, I find, the heat map doesn't update or display. Other times, you have to make sure you zoom out (but not too much) to find the stupid heat map where the percentage might apply. And then, as you make your way to the heat map...it may disappear all together or you may end up getting a ride outside the heat map (you know, along the way). The actual surge percentage that applies depends on where the rider is within the heat map.

In other words, the percentage is there to taunt you. They want more drivers moving towards and into the shaded areas but those drivers will never know whether they received a prime time rate bonus or if they did how much until after the ride has completed.

My experience has been that every ride you pick up will land you back in a place where there is no surge, and trying to get back to the surge takes some time as other requests come in for which no surge applies.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

Lyft_94110 said:


> AllenChicago "in other words the prime-time percentage that comes and goes at the top of our screen is 100% worthless."
> 
> I think that's the case. At best, it seems no more than a tease.
> 
> ...


To Illustrate how out of the loop Lyft I.T. people are, they covered up about 15% of the map with those stupid statistics squares at the bottom of the Driver Map, when you're in ONLINE mode. Often times, there are "Heat Squares" behind them, but you'd never know it, without physically sliding the map to drag that hidden section up into view.

Lyft says that DRIVERS REQUESTED these Power Driver Bonus/# of Rides/ Fare Earned Today information squares at the bottom of the Map when in online driver mode. Did you guys/gals really request this? If so, I'll not complain about it.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

All untrue

Sat around Sunday morning, check driver mode nothing look in pax app, few miles south of me all blocks for miles are @ 300-350% PT

Floor it on over immediately get a 250% then a 150% despite being quite late to the party.

These weren't speck surged either but rectangles for blocks and blocks --- check any random address all at same PT rate

...just wasn't shaded as heat map on driver mode OR even announced in the % range thing on top, which was advertising between nothing at all and Lousy 75% in some ghetto area



Lyft_94110 said:


> AllenChicago "in other words the prime-time percentage that comes and goes at the top of our screen is 100% worthless."
> 
> I think that's the case. At best, it seems no more than a tease.
> 
> ...


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

MiddleClassedOut said:


> Red is 100% or better, pink is < 100% and possibly nothing. The screen shows the lowest-highest Prime Time zones, it's up to you to use the PAX app to figure out where they are.


Did they change it? Or is your phone also AMOLED?

Used to have a cheapie IPS screen phone and you could SEE like 6-7 gradations between pale pink and deep magenta (250-300 or more afair)...

Broke that thing, got a different phone

Now, Samsung Note 4, four times the pixels on screen and supposed to be all kinds of better ---:but can't see jack, maybe 2-3 shades total including that for worthless maybe-25% zones


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

AllenChicago said:


> To Illustrate how out of the loop Lyft I.T. people are, they covered up about 15% of the map with those stupid statistics squares at the bottom of the Driver Map, when you're in ONLINE mode. Often times, there are "Heat Squares" behind them, but you'd never know it, without physically sliding the map to drag that hidden section up into view.
> 
> Lyft says that DRIVERS REQUESTED these Power Driver Bonus/# of Rides/ Fare Earned Today information squares at the bottom of the Map when in online driver mode. Did you guys/gals really request this? If so, I'll not complain about it.


Drivers did not.

If they had there'd be an on/off interface toggle and a full screen mode and LARGE FONT MAP LABEL OPTIONS

Nope, this gamey interface is to provoke addictive personalities and competitive types to chase bonuses like high scores in arcades or levels and loot in video games

That's why you can't dismiss it


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## 2CV750CC (Nov 18, 2015)

Adieu said:


> All untrue
> 
> Sat around Sunday morning, check driver mode nothing look in pax app, few miles south of me all blocks for miles are @ 300-350% PT
> 
> ...


I see the same or similar regularly near my home
live near a college, as soon as 2 or more students want to go home there is PT - but I never see it unless I play in pax mode and then I see 100% or more

then when I am miles away I see it on the map in bright pink - wtf

glad I am not the only one noticing this weird stuff


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

Adieu said:


> Drivers did not.
> 
> If they had there'd be an on/off interface toggle and a full screen mode and LARGE FONT MAP LABEL OPTIONS
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply, Adieu. I didn't think DRIVERS asked for this crap that covers the bottom of our navigation map. You get the feeling that Lyft's I.T. department is made up of college students, who are just working there to pad their resumes. The Lyft app updates consist of glittery bloat, that contain minimal substance. The most annoying one to me is the Destination Filter that rarely works.


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## macchiato (Sep 29, 2015)

Pretty sure app dev is outsourced.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

AllenChicago said:


> Thanks for the reply, Adieu. I didn't think DRIVERS asked for this crap that covers the bottom of our navigation map. You get the feeling that Lyft's I.T. department is made up of college students, who are just working there to pad their resumes. The Lyft app updates consist of glittery bloat, that contain minimal substance. The most annoying one to me is the Destination Filter that rarely works.


DF works great if you can force it to route thru areas with, like, people... I get a dozen intentionally small, quick shorties in desired direction for ridecount toward bonus each week with it

Else it prioritizes interstates and nada


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

TO use the pax app, would I need a different phone number? I still find Lyft PT rediculously too complex to get compared to Uber surge, even though I like Lyft better. I don't have to work to get Uber Surge. If I'm in the surge area, I'll get surge pings... 99% of the time. I don't have to apply some strange incantations, to make it happen. One big problem is PT is geographically way too narrow. When Uber surges, most of the time, it'll surge over a large area, so there's less of a chance of people walking 1 block to outsmart it. One thing I've learned by running both apps (in the Seattle Market... can't speak for other markets) is that you can't rely on PT whatsoever. It might happen once in a while but it's almost irrelevant when PT happens. You will probably not get it, even if you're sitting right where it happens, as it happens, and there aren't really any other lyft cars in the immediate area. I have literally only gotten 2 or 3 PT fares ever, and I frequently have half a day surge pricing on Uber.

Lyft drivers brag and screen shot when they get a PT fare... uber drivers sometimes don't even accept pings that aren't surge for hours on end. If I can get literally hours of straight 2x+ surges and not a single PT fare from the same exact events at the same exact times in the same exact areas, with the same exact visual feedback in both apps running simultaniusly from my same exact car... hmmm... They need to tweak it.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

K-pax said:


> TO use the pax app, would I need a different phone number? I still find Lyft PT rediculously too complex to get compared to Uber surge, even though I like Lyft better. I don't have to work to get Uber Surge. If I'm in the surge area, I'll get surge pings... 99% of the time. I don't have to apply some strange incantations, to make it happen. One big problem is PT is geographically way too narrow. When Uber surges, most of the time, it'll surge over a large area, so there's less of a chance of people walking 1 block to outsmart it. One thing I've learned by running both apps (in the Seattle Market... can't speak for other markets) is that you can't rely on PT whatsoever. It might happen once in a while but it's almost irrelevant when PT happens. You will probably not get it, even if you're sitting right where it happens, as it happens, and there aren't really any other lyft cars in the immediate area. I have literally only gotten 2 or 3 PT fares ever, and I frequently have half a day surge pricing on Uber.
> 
> Lyft drivers brag and screen shot when they get a PT fare... uber drivers sometimes don't even accept pings that aren't surge for hours on end. If I can get literally hours of straight 2x+ surges and not a single PT fare from the same exact events at the same exact times in the same exact areas, with the same exact visual feedback in both apps running simultaniusly from my same exact car... hmmm... They need to tweak it.


I only brag Lyft fares if they come surged to the equivalent of Uber BLOODRED

Plenty of that stuff around, it just hides it better

Different phone physically, differect number, different account


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

Adieu said:


> I only brag Lyft fares if they come surged to the equivalent of Uber BLOODRED
> 
> Plenty of that stuff around, it just hides it better
> 
> Different phone physically, differect number, different account


Don't get me wrong. I've gotten a few REALLY nice PT fares (few being the key word), and TBH I do prefer lyft as a platform over Uber, but they were all just totally by chance. I have never been able to strategically (in the Seattle market) go for PT fares, but I can do that with Uber surge. I can't figure out why the strategy would be so different. If the heat maps are displaying supply and demand, why is the Uber app reflecting reality better than lyft? I don't actually want that to be true, cause I often wish I could be making more money with lyft than uber (esp with the promise of PDB), but I try to stick to high volume days and times... and I get tons of surge on Uber when things are going on... to the point where I'd be losing a ton of money and working harder to try to do the same on lyft. If I could do the same on lyft I would absolutely do it and not even bother with uber during peak times. From what I've experienced so far, I can't run lyft when it's busy unless they give me a guarantee, because I literally will not get anything better than the base rates no matter what the map shows or I'll sit there pingless during prime time situations where I'd be making a fortune on Uber. I have yet to find a single minute of a single day that refutes this (in Seattle). The sort of secret-handshake style culture around PT doesn't really entice me... what that says to me is that a few people have figured out a really bad system, and have to work way too hard to make it work for them. Really bad systems always have a few people who figure out how to exploit it... but why bother? I can make bank when Uber surges... why would I work 10x harder to get the same thing on lyft?

Are there any third party solutions to this issue of not being able to check on competition? Not being able to check on other cars is killing me. It's like driving down a busy street with a blindfold on. It makes no sense. I run two phones in my rig, but they're both tethered to one number.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

The Lyft app allows people who switch from driver mode to passenger mode. Click your face and then switch to rider mode.

Rider mode lets you see what cars are around you.

I did check out a theory on this, and I used rider mode to select a pickup spot in what was displayed as a pink area in driver mode. The rider version of the app, sure as day, told me the ride would have a 25% prime time multiplier put on it if I ordered the ride.
There was a driver within two blocks of the sample pickup location. I can post screenshots if anyone wants them.


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

Well sure, but that requires quite a bit of fumbling around with a phone and I don't want to fumble around with the phone any more than I have to while driving. On the Uber side, I can, for example, have my tethered phone running the pax app, while my main phone runs the driver app. I can make quick glances over to decide where to drive if I'm not getting pings without taking my attention off of the road. The thing that sucks is that I couldn't just run the app on the other phone in pax mode, because it's literally just a tethered phone without any phone service that works as a wifi hotspot only device. All data goes through the same cell phone number on both devices.


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## MiddleClassedOut (Jun 11, 2015)

Just FYI, Lyft is trying to hide the Prime Time more from PAX. In the most recent update, it does not show the Prime Time when you simply move the pointer location. It only shows the Prime Time once you tap confirm ride, just like Uber. This is an obvious ploy to get drunk people to just tap through, I don't mind it, but it makes my job more difficult. Make sure autoupdates are off if you use a 2nd device.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

MiddleClassedOut said:


> Just FYI, Lyft is trying to hide the Prime Time more from PAX. In the most recent update, it does not show the Prime Time when you simply move the pointer location. It only shows the Prime Time once you tap confirm ride, just like Uber. This is an obvious ploy to get drunk people to just tap through, I don't mind it, but it makes my job more difficult. Make sure autoupdates are off if you use a 2nd device.


Its not for that

Its yet another attempt to mess up our cherrypicking

...sorta like the removal of the "load navi" button from the waybills destination

Even burned me once....arrive to pick up some LBC peeps, they aint out but they going to Broadway, ok cool right? Lets wait for the minfare.

...Wrong. Its OC Santa Ana Broadway.


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## Andre Benjamin 6000 (Nov 11, 2016)

MiddleClassedOut said:


> Just FYI, Lyft is trying to hide the Prime Time more from PAX. In the most recent update, it does not show the Prime Time when you simply move the pointer location. It only shows the Prime Time once you tap confirm ride, just like Uber. This is an obvious ploy to get drunk people to just tap through, I don't mind it, but it makes my job more difficult. Make sure autoupdates are off if you use a 2nd device.


Thanks for this!


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## Uber/Lyfter (Dec 30, 2014)

Both companies are creating fake Surges and Prime to get more drivers in certain areas... This coming from a friend that works for Uber.


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## fairsailing (May 16, 2016)

K-pax said:


> ....On the Uber side, I can, for example, have my tethered phone running the pax app, while my main phone runs the driver app. I can make quick glances over to decide where to drive if I'm not getting pings without taking my attention off of the road....


Not to gush, but this is a great idea K-pax! I was thinking a 2nd device would cost me a second cell line. However I just bought a GPS enabled wifi only tablet for travel, and decided to test it with your approach. It won't work with just tablet wifi, but as soon as I tether it to my cell, I have a free 2nd device monitoring pax Lyft, which is practically a requirement with the games Lyft is playing these days. We will see about increased data usage, but at least I am not out a 2nd line. Thanks again!


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