# California to implement minimum mileage and minute wage after January.



## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

After prop 22 fails in the states Supreme Court California will proceed with a driver minimum wage Seattle style. I can only say this is from someone I know who works at the capital and she told me to get ready to become an employee.

more to follow later.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

If you have access to someone at the Capitol then please lobby them to get legislators to THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.

We need a new type of law that is a hybrid of worker protection rules without the need to become an "employee". We need some type of collective bargaining. We need protection from deactivation without due process. We need to have a "CA Driver Benefits" credit applied to our account if we don't work enough hours to qualify for the "Healthcare Stipend". We need to see full pickup and destination info ALL the time. We need full disclosure of what the rider pays for the trip.

We don't need any of the employee status baggage that nullifies our right to go online and offline as we please.

Tell her Mole!


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

In Seattle, no one was made an employee


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

I don't want to be an employee. I want to be an actual independent contractor.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

This post has been cancelled.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Mole said:


> After prop 22 fails in the states Supreme Court California will proceed with a driver minimum wage Seattle style. I can only say this is from someone I know who works at the capital and she told me to get ready to become an employee.
> 
> more to follow later.


Hahaha y’all are funked


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Yeah, Pittsburg is such a sh*thole the lawmakers have no need to go out of their way to funk its drivers.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Requiring Uberlyft to match cities' minimum wages for _all_ time worked is a good start, but only because it declares that no company is excused from minimum earnings laws. The next step would be to make the law minimum wage plus expenses.

However, none of this is really of any benefit to drivers. If one's goal is minimum wage then that's pretty poor. I wouldn't be doing this work if I only earned minimum wage from it.


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## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

Wtf is going on in Cali...😧


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## Alantc (Jun 15, 2018)

looked up the IRS definition of a independent contractor. They way I understand it we are not independent contractors.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Mole said:


> this is from someone I know who *works *at the capital


FAKE!!!
Everybody knows nobody does any _*work *_at the capital.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

Amos69 said:


> In Seattle, no one was made an employee


True but the wage was set by the local government enforcing a guaranteed mile and minute wage the first step to changing the laws.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

Uber's Guber said:


> FAKE!!!
> Everybody knows nobody does any _*work *_at the capital.


Well how ironic she gets paid 200k to sit in meetings she has no control over lol


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Alantc said:


> looked up the IRS definition of a independent contractor. They way I understand it we are not independent contractors.


Then please enlighten us as to what every million dollar a year lawyer has missed in the IRS code for the past 15 years.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Then please enlighten us as to what every million dollar a year lawyer has missed in the IRS code for the past 15 years.


Interesting subject matter. But I just want a minimum wage for miles and minutes I would not mind staying an IC


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Mole said:


> Interesting subject matter. But I just want a minimum wage for miles and minutes I would not mind staying an IC


I don’t know about you, but I make no less than $25 an hour on a slow day, and no less than $40 an hour on a good day. Seems much better than minimum to me.

And that is without lawmakers meddling with our business.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

UberChiefPIT said:


> I don’t know about you, but I make no less than $25 an hour on a slow day, and no less than $40 an hour on a good day. Seems much better than minimum to me.
> 
> And that is without lawmakers meddling with our business.


If they raise the price you get for miles and minutes then you win. Or you can take what Uber gives you.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Mole said:


> If they raise the price you get for miles and minutes then you win. Or you can take what Uber gives you.


$40/hour isn’t enough for you? What will be enough? Tell us how much will be enough for you to make doing this job, and we will set the law to make it that much. And then you will never ever ever ever again ask for more right? Right?!? Just give us a number. How much will be enough.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

UberChiefPIT said:


> $40/hour isn’t enough for you? What will be enough? Tell us how much will be enough for you to make doing this job, and we will set the law to make it that much. And then you will never ever ever ever again ask for more right? Right?!? Just give us a number. How much will be enough.


When I first started Uber I made $500 to $600 a day so about $400 net on average in 8 hours. I think $1.25 a mile and $0.30 a minute would be a good place to start. Then a 2% increase every year.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Mole said:


> When I first started Uber I made $500 to $600 a day so about $400 net on average in 8 hours. I think $1.25 a mile and $0.30 a minute would be a good place to start. Then a 2% increase every year.


Tell.Us. What. Number. Would. Be. Enough. For. You. To. Be. Satisfied. With. How. Much. You. Earn. Doing. This. Job.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

If they guarantee you a minimum, you can be pretty sure that's pretty much all you're gonna get.

Let's say they randomly say it's $19 an hour (optomistic). I'd bet a weeks pay you'd never make more than $22-23 an hour.

With no guarantees I can earn $25/hr AFTER depreciation, maintenance, gas, tires, brakes repairs etc. Long term average. On some nights I can earn $60+ per hour.

If they guarantee you a wage, they will redistribute the way they are paying out and you can bet your sweet butt the top end will dissapear.

Leave me alone and leave everything just the way it is. If you're not making money at this, you don't know how to do it. Or where, or when to do it.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Mole said:


> When I first started Uber I made $500 to $600 a day so about $400 net on average in 8 hours. I think $1.25 a mile and $0.30 a minute would be a good place to start. Then a 2% increase every year.











King and Snohomish Counties











Seattle city limits


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

Uber should just go all in with the w-2 model, give the kooks what they want. This idea you cant be profitable company exploiting w-2 workers is a joke, look at wal mart. They could really raise prices 3 to 4 times keep 75% or so and get rid of all independence, hire only 29 hours a week to avoid paying health care. So you pay 15 bucks an hour, raise the rates keep most of it. Lets think of a crowded concert, now driver gets 75% or so, but all they would be obligated to pay is min wage plus mileage, now with IC status youll get 25 bucks or more for a half hour surge 5 mile ride, with w2 youll get 7.50 plus 1.50 a mile and be forced to pickup a 4.1 loon for 9 bucks. This is not counting all the miles you'll have to eat on a shift far away from home with no destination filter. Some will say No one will use uber if they raise the rates so much and keep most, but no App is built better than uber, huge advantage try using some of those garbage can taxi apps.

California is a mess and perhaps Uber should play hardball and leave like Elon musk did, or introduce the w-2 nightmare upon drivers?


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

Amos69 said:


> View attachment 620055
> 
> King and Snohomish Counties
> 
> ...


SF and north bay we get 69 cents a mile and 29 cents a minute. I would love to have your pay.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Mole said:


> SF and north bay we get 69 cents a mile and 29 cents a minute. I would love to have your pay.


I never chime in on the whole waiting for a customer discussion. At .29 a minute to wait you can make $18 an hour to send dick picks to @Direwolfismyspiritanimal while some fool sleeps through their alarm.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Then please enlighten us as to what every million dollar a year lawyer has missed in the IRS code for the past 15 years.


There's no real code, that's the problem. It's full of conditional terms such as "maybe" and "could be", and it's probably no accident that the loopholes are big enough for an aircraft carrier to fit through.

Major reform is badly needed.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

dnlbaboof said:


> Uber should just go all in with the w-2 model, give the kooks what they want. This idea you cant be profitable company exploiting w-2 workers is a joke, look at wal mart. They could really raise prices 3 to 4 times keep 75% or so and get rid of all independence, hire only 29 hours a week to avoid paying health care. So you pay 15 bucks an hour, raise the rates keep most of it. Lets think of a crowded concert, now driver gets 75% or so, but all they would be obligated to pay is min wage plus mileage, now with IC status youll get 25 bucks or more for a half hour surge 5 mile ride, with w2 youll get 7.50 plus 1.50 a mile and be forced to pickup a 4.1 loon for 9 bucks. This is not counting all the miles you'll have to eat on a shift far away from home with no destination filter. Some will say No one will use uber if they raise the rates so much and keep most, but no App is built better than uber, huge advantage try using some of those garbage can taxi apps.
> 
> California is a mess and perhaps Uber should play hardball and leave like Elon musk did, or introduce the w-2 nightmare upon drivers?


Employee-drivers would be a disaster for Uber, which is why they've fought furiously against it since day one.

There's a limit to how much Uber could raise their prices, especially given the competition they'd get from new employee-driver rideshare companies that would start in CA.

The lack of health insurance for their employee-drivers could very well become a serious obstacle for attracting drivers, especially given the likelihood of new competition entering the CA market. So could the various draconian scenarios you stated such as requiring drivers to work a zillion miles from their homes.

In the absence of Covid, surge means nothing to the majority of drivers because most drivers don't benefit from surges. Surge is designed to be exclusionary. It rapidly evaporates as drivers enter a surge zone, which means only the early birds will get surge pay, shutting out the majority of drivers. This is one of the major flaws in Uber's business model.

The same principle applies to Uber's various "promotions", which get slashed by Uber as drivers start collecting them.



dnlbaboof said:


> California is a mess and perhaps Uber should play hardball and leave like Elon musk did, or introduce the w-2 nightmare upon drivers?


Uber didn't pull out of NYC and they won't leave CA either.

If CA is a mess it's because of Prop 22. Had Prop 22 been defeated, Uber would have been forced to come to the bargaining table from a position of major weakness. They'd have no choice but to agree to major concessions that would have been irrevocable by them.

But because Prop 22 won, Uber was able to take away all the positive changes.

In the absence of govt intervention, no positive changes made by these companies will be safe from being taken away at the first opportunity.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Employee-drivers would be a disaster for Uber, which is why they've fought furiously against it since day one.
> 
> There's a limit to how much Uber could raise their prices, especially given the competition they'd get from new employee-driver rideshare companies that would start in CA.
> 
> ...


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

Again, tens of thousands of companies make millions exploiting w-2 workers from mcdonalds to amazon, Uber somehow couldn't? Its not that easy to start a rideshare company it costs 10 of millions to develop an app, then you need millions of downloads on ios/android then you need millions more to buy insurance, most companies don't have the resources to do so. Uber and Lyft could easily charge 2001 taxi rates and keep most of the cut and California has so much unemployment and poverty people will line up to drive for 15 bucks an hour running their cars into the ground on a shift.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

dnlbaboof said:


> California has so much unemployment and poverty people will line up to drive for 15 bucks an hour running their cars into the ground on a shift.


They already do, lol


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

dnlbaboof said:


> Again, tens of thousands of companies make millions exploiting w-2 workers from mcdonalds to amazon, Uber somehow couldn't? Its not that easy to start a rideshare company it costs 10 of millions to develop an app, then you need millions of downloads on ios/android then you need millions more to buy insurance, most companies don't have the resources to do so. Uber and Lyft could easily charge 2001 taxi rates and keep most of the cut and California has so much unemployment and poverty people will line up to drive for 15 bucks an hour running their cars into the ground on a shift.


This post makes no sense and contradicts itself.


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## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

Why would anyone want to be an employee of Uber? They would tell you when to drive, which trips you have to take, how long to wait, when you can take a break, and they would pay you the lowest amount possible, so no more profitable Saturday nights. You would lose the best part about driving for Uber, all for a low hourly rate. If that’s what you want, move to China.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

TobyD said:


> Why would anyone want to be an employee of Uber? They would tell you when to drive, which trips you have to take, how long to wait, when you can take a break, and they would pay you the lowest amount possible, so no more profitable Saturday nights. You would lose the best part about driving for Uber, all for a low hourly rate. If that’s what you want, move to China.


Basically.

They want to be able to get up at 9am and drive 'til 5pm Monday through Friday, and make just as much as us who grind it out Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night.

Sorry, but I won't subsidize laziness with my hard work.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

I agree with @TobyD and @UberChiefPIT


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

Ted Fink said:


> If they guarantee you a minimum, you can be pretty sure that's pretty much all you're gonna get.
> 
> Let's say they randomly say it's $19 an hour (optomistic). I'd bet a weeks pay you'd never make more than $22-23 an hour.
> 
> ...


It is not a minimum hourly wage it is a minimum mile and minute wage that considers your expense such as gas and insurance and maintenance.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Mole said:


> It is not a minimum hourly wage it is a minimum mile and minute wage that considers your expense such as gas and insurance and maintenance.


Understood. Nevertheless, to prop up the bottom, the top must decline. It's the business equivalent of socialism.

If you want to make money with Uber, learn WHEN, WHERE, and HOW to earn the highest earnings. F the ants. I don't drive for less than $25 an hour gross. It took the first two of my four years to perfect it. And people want Uber to boost low earners, undoubtedly at my expense? NO. You want more, do more, learn more, become better! If you're earning less than minimum wage after expenses you should quit. Because you have learned nothing. Nobody hands you anything in life. You have to sweat, bleed, and struggle. I earn what I earn because I have spent thousands of hours perfecting my craft. I earned it. And I pay a shitload in taxes (unlike most drivers) because I'm profitable. I've paid over 5k in estimated tax already this year, and I think my fourth one is gonna have to make up some more lest I be short and pay a penalty in April. THAT is how you do it. Don't ask others how. Experiment. Try something. Try a different place, a different time, a different approach. Figure it out. This is not rocket science. Good customer service, good manners and a smile helps too.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Mole said:


> It is not a minimum hourly wage it is a minimum mile and minute wage that considers your expense such as gas and insurance and maintenance.


Ya okay. Hahahahahaha

"They're gonna write this law so smart, it considers everything so you make so many gadzoodles more than minimum hourly wage. All those millionaire and billionaire lawmakers are sure gonna stick it to those millionaire and billionaire campaign donors!


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Ya okay. Hahahahahaha
> 
> "They're gonna write this law so smart, it considers everything so you make so many gadzoodles more than minimum hourly wage. All those millionaire and billionaire lawmakers are sure gonna stick it to those millionaire and billionaire campaign donors!


They did this in Seattle and New York and it is working just fine. So yes it is in motion and it will most likely be the new model nation wide.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

Ted Fink said:


> Understood. Nevertheless, to prop up the bottom, the top must decline. It's the business equivalent of socialism.
> 
> If you want to make money with Uber, learn WHEN, WHERE, and HOW to earn the highest earnings. F the ants. I don't drive for less than $25 an hour gross. It took the first two of my four years to perfect it. And people want Uber to boost low earners, undoubtedly at my expense? NO. You want more, do more, learn more, become better! If you're earning less than minimum wage after expenses you should quit. Because you have learned nothing. Nobody hands you anything in life. You have to sweat, bleed, and struggle. I earn what I earn because I have spent thousands of hours perfecting my craft. I earned it. And I pay a shitload in taxes (unlike most drivers) because I'm profitable. I've paid over 5k in estimated tax already this year, and I think my fourth one is gonna have to make up some more lest I be short and pay a penalty in April. THAT is how you do it. Don't ask others how. Experiment. Try something. Try a different place, a different time, a different approach. Figure it out. This is not rocket science. Good customer service, good manners and a smile helps too.


This is simple change is on the way the workers are going to get more money simply because change is in the air. Small work forces in history such as our current labor pool always prevail. Strikes are the new thing and companies and governments are noticing.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Mole said:


> They did this in Seattle and New York and it is working just fine. So yes it is in motion and it will most likely be the new model nation wide.


Look at their forums.

They're not making much better than minimum.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Look at their forums.
> 
> They're not making much better than minimum.


Ask Amos69 he is up there.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Ted Fink said:


> Understood. Nevertheless, to prop up the bottom, the top must decline. It's the business equivalent of socialism.
> 
> If you want to make money with Uber, learn WHEN, WHERE, and HOW to earn the highest earnings. F the ants. I don't drive for less than $25 an hour gross. It took the first two of my four years to perfect it. And people want Uber to boost low earners, undoubtedly at my expense? NO. You want more, do more, learn more, become better! If you're earning less than minimum wage after expenses you should quit. Because you have learned nothing. Nobody hands you anything in life. You have to sweat, bleed, and struggle. I earn what I earn because I have spent thousands of hours perfecting my craft. I earned it. And I pay a shitload in taxes (unlike most drivers) because I'm profitable. I've paid over 5k in estimated tax already this year, and I think my fourth one is gonna have to make up some more lest I be short and pay a penalty in April. THAT is how you do it. Don't ask others how. Experiment. Try something. Try a different place, a different time, a different approach. Figure it out. This is not rocket science. Good customer service, good manners and a smile helps too.


One of the massive flaws of Uber's poor base rates/reliance on surges and promos business model is the fact that most drivers have to fail in order for the few to succeed, which is similar to how slot machines work.

Thanks to Uber's garbage pay rates, it's virtually impossible to earn decent money without decent surges and probably decent promos as well. The problem with surges is that only the few early birds will get them. The problem with promos is that if more than a few drivers receive them Uber will reduce or eliminate them.

Uber's business model only allows a small percentage of drivers to make decent money. The smarter the majority of drivers become, the less the highest earners will make.

The exclusionary nature of Uber's business model renders it a failure.

Contrast that with a business model that pays drivers decent base rates. ALL rides become profitable, which in turn would enable an exponentially higher percentage of drivers to succeed at this business. The shrewdest drivers would still earn the most but the percentage of drivers who succeed would be exponentially higher.

Your problem is your selfishness and narcissism blind you to this fact.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Mole said:


> They did this in Seattle and New York and it is working just fine. So yes it is in motion and it will most likely be the new model nation wide.


So New York drivers think it's fine that they can only sign up for hours that are available as prescribed by Uber? I doubt it!


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Look at their forums.
> 
> They're not making much better than minimum.


Exactly what I said in Post #21 of this thread... if they establish a minimum (whether it be hours, miles, minutes, whatever), you aren't going to go very far above it.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> One of the massive flaws of Uber's poor base rates/reliance on surges and promos business model is the fact that most drivers have to fail in order for the few to succeed, which is similar to how slot machines work.
> 
> Thanks to Uber's garbage pay rates, it's virtually impossible to earn decent money without decent surges and probably decent promos as well. The problem with surges is that only the few early birds will get them. The problem with promos is that if more than a few drivers receive them Uber will reduce or eliminate them.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, it's totally selfish to grind it out until the sun comes up every Friday and Saturday night and expect a return for my effort. My bad, go ahead with turning Uber into socialism. Trust me, my earnings are higher than average but my effort is WAY above average and my study of my craft and perfecting of it is WAY above average. Narcissism has nothing to do with it. Any Ant can do what I'm doing. I was an Ant at the start myself. Then I decided, how can I become better? That self-improvement journey basically doubled my earnings. Don't tell me I don't deserve it. But I'm also not telling you that you don't deserve it. It's there - you want it, go get it!


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> One of the massive flaws of Uber's poor base rates/reliance on surges and promos business model is the fact that most drivers have to fail in order for the few to succeed, which is similar to how slot machines work.
> 
> Thanks to Uber's garbage pay rates, it's virtually impossible to earn decent money without decent surges and probably decent promos as well. The problem with surges is that only the few early birds will get them. The problem with promos is that if more than a few drivers receive them Uber will reduce or eliminate them.


On these points I totally agree...

I would rather see higher consistent rates and no promos or surges. But we have what we have. Sure we all wish it would change, but what are the odds?

To the point about slot machines - yes, Uber has MANY parallels to gambling. They have programmers who try to gamify the experience, which for me makes it more fun.

I don't have any data to draw a conclusion, but in my market it seems that promos are directly related to how busy Uber thinks it's going to be vs. how many drivers they think will show up. They go up and down like the stock market. However, I've noticed that surges are more likely when promos are low and less likely when promos are high... so I kinda lump it all into one category in my mind... it's all bonus money, and I don't really give a rats rear end HOW they give it to me or what they call it, as long as they do.

One other thought - one of the reasons I do well and one of the things I learned as I studied and perfected this is, the market closest to me sucks, so I drive, actually quite a distance, to another market that is better. That's what I was referring to with the knowing How, When, and Where to work. The choice of hours is key too - in my market, late nights are the best. Your mileage may vary. All markets have there own unique characteristics - learn them and you will earn more. And if your market sucks complete donkey butt, take a look at the ones nearby. Are they better?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Ted Fink said:


> Oh yeah, it's totally selfish to grind it out until the sun comes up every Friday and Saturday night and expect a return for my effort. My bad, go ahead with turning Uber into socialism.


It's selfish to oppose changing the status quo and calling attempts to do so "socialism".

Uber's the party that engages in "socialism". They're the ones who punish success by decimating promos after drivers bust their asses to reach them. They're the ones who talk about "leveling the playing field" among drivers.

No driver should have to break their balls in order to make a decent income. No full time driver should have be away from home 80+ hours in order to make a tolerable income.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Ted Fink said:


> On these points I totally agree...
> 
> I would rather see higher consistent rates and no promos or surges. But we have what we have. Sure we all wish it would change, but what are the odds?
> 
> ...


Driving for Uber shouldn't be like playing a slot machine.

Like I've said on previous occasions, the major flaw of surges is that they're exclusionary. Only the early birds in the surge areas benefit, which shuts out the vast majority of drivers. The fact that garbage base rates makes surge pay necessary is a major flaw of Uber's corrupt business model.

Not every driver will succeed. Not every driver is cut out for this job, but paying decent base rates will enable exponentially more drivers to succeed at this job.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> It's selfish to oppose changing the status quo and calling attempts to do so "socialism".
> 
> Uber's the party that engages in "socialism". They're the ones who punish success by decimating promos after drivers bust their asses to reach them. They're the ones who talk about "leveling the playing field" among drivers.
> 
> No driver should have to break their balls in order to make a decent income. No full time driver should have be away from home 80+ hours in order to make a tolerable income.


I'm not opposed to changing the status quo... I did say I'd like them to eliminate quest and surge and raise the base rates. That would make it fair for everyone, AND drivers who want to grind harder can still make more.

Per mile / Per minute guarantees though? Hard Pass. This is not a job with an hourly wage. This is a business, with profit or loss (hopefully profit). If you want a job, get a job. If you want a business, run a business. Both options are available to you. But don't try to turn a business into a job, nor try to turn a job into a business.

You want hourly pay? Drive a truck, a bus, be a limo chauffeur, etc. You want to be paid based on skill and effort? Try Uber or Taxi. 

People want to make this hard. Uber is what uber is. If it ain't for you try one of the other choices.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

AND YES, OF COURSE, RAISE RATES. THAT WE AGREE ON!!!!


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Ted Fink said:


> So New York drivers think it's fine that they can only sign up for hours that are available as prescribed by Uber? I doubt it!


I've always been opposed to the NYC model. It's an exclusionary, complicated mess. 

Government regulation of the gig economy is long overdue, but the way it's being done in NYC is a mistake.

Instead, the govt should regulate ALL gig companies in the following ways...

1) Mandate that drivers be paid at least 75% of the taxi rates where the ride originates.

2) Cap the company's cut at 25%, including ALL fees such as booking, etc.

3) 100% transparency in the companies' relationship with the drivers. NOTHING should be hidden from the drivers. FULL addresses and payouts should be shown in advance for every trip, including deliveries. No more hiding info from the drivers.

4) Major reform of the oppressive rating systems. (Instacart probably has the most brutal ratings systems of all gig companies)

5) An independent "disciplinary" board for drivers to appeal punishments.

6) Transparent dispatch systems that eliminate all criteria except for proximity. Companies should not be allowed use dispatch as a form of punishment or "reward".


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> I've always been opposed to the NYC model. It's an exclusionary, complicated mess.
> 
> Government regulation of the gig economy is long overdue, but the way it's being done in NYC is a mistake.
> 
> ...


SIGN ME UP


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Ted Fink said:


> Per mile / Per minute guarantees though? Hard Pass. This is not a job with an hourly wage.


I didn't say anything about guaranteed minimum earnings which I happen to be opposed to. Guarantees require companies to limit the number of drivers who are allowed work at any given time which results in drivers being shut out. That's not a good thing.

Mandatory pay rates that are at least 75% of local taxi rates with a 25% fee cap is the way to go.


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## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

Are you 2 dating?


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Mole said:


> Ask Amos69 he is up there.


Most people are stupider than I think they are.

I know things are different here late covid but pre covid anyone like Nina not making profit were dumber than that.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Guess what? This is why uber didn't want ya'll to be employees.


2802. (a) An employer shall indemnify his or her employee for all necessary expenditures or losses incurred by the employee in direct consequence of the discharge of his or her duties, or of his or her obedience to the directions of the employer, even though unlawful, unless the employee, at the time of obeying the directions, believed them to be unlawful.



And in federal law there's no requirement to pay expenses, unless your expenses bring you below min wage.



So if you were declared an employee under federal law you would be entitled to..

Adjusted min wage = Min wage + any impermissible expenses



And In california you're just required to be paid mileage.


So if you were an employee, you could go after them in either state or federal court.


And...
THERE IS CASELAW!









Papa John's store owners pay $3.25M to settle drivers' vehicle reimbursement suit


It's not the first time a class of delivery drivers has filed suit over wage and hour claims related to reimbursements.




www.hrdive.com






Papa John's store operators in several states agreed to pay $3.25 million to settle state and federal wage and hour claims brought by a class of delivery drivers, per the order of a judge in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Ohio (_Hatmaker v. Papa John's Ohio, et. al_, No. 3:17-cv-00146 (S.D. Ohio June 4, 2021)).
The settlement stems from a 2017 suit in which three drivers sued, disputing that the reimbursement provided by their employers "adequately reimbursed [p]laintiffs and other drivers for their vehicle expenses," according to the motion for preliminary settlement approval filed May 27. The suit includes thousands of drivers across approximately 70 stores in three states.


Uber is fighting this tooth and nail because they will LOSE, and lose hard.


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

There needs to be a national minimum per mile around $1.25+. Period. This would improve both platforms exponentially. The idea needs to be to improve the passenger and driver experience; presently the TNC companies are hurting their passengers by trying to take too much money from the drivers, creating a chaotic platform with increased prices and longer wait times.


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