# Suit says Boynton-area girl, 13, who died in crash called Lyft



## Mazda3 (Jun 21, 2014)

LANTANA -

The ride-sharing company Lyft took a 13-year-old girl in the middle of the night to a 17-year-old boy's home, where she got in his pickup and died when it slammed into two trees west of Lantana early on July 9, a lawsuit filed this week contends.

Josie Saint Fleur still doesn't know what her daughter, high-honors student Karenine Saint Louis, was doing out at 5:30 a.m. with Jimmy Aguirre, a boy the mother didn't know. Saint Fleur, a nurse, has told The Palm Beach Post she was working an overnight shift and thought Karenine was home asleep. Lawyers said a grandmother was asleep in the home.

The lawsuit names as defendants Aguirre and his mother, as well as Lyft, and two Lyft drivers, one of whom is believed to have taken Saint Louis from her home west of Boynton Beach to Aguirre's home in Greenacres. Lawyers said they were able to narrow down drivers to two names and eventually expect to learn which of the two picked up Karenine.

The lawsuit, filed Monday in Palm Beach Circuit Court, doesn't specify damages.

Lyft spokeswoman Alexandra LaManna, contacted late Tuesday, had not yet seen the suit.

State records show Aguirre does not have a regular driver license, but only a Class E learner's permit, which requires someone who's at least 21 be in the front seat when he drives. The report on the crash says the two were the only ones in the 2002 Ford F-150 pickup when Aguirre lost control on a wet road west of Lantana.

No charges have been filed for now as the investigation continues, the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office said Tuesday. The Post has been unable to make contact either with Jimmy Aguirre or his family.

The suit said the Lyft driver "had a duty to request ID for confirmation of her (St. Louis') age and to refuse transport after the driver would have learned that was under 18, and in fact 5 years younger than 18." It says the driver had a duty to get the parent's consent and to call Lyft's "Critical Response Line" for guidance.

"They took a vulnerable child out of the home," attorney Scott M. Fischer told The Post on Tuesday, "and drove her 9 miles into the hands of a 17-year-old male, which proceeded to cause her death, which we don't believe would have happened had Lyft acted responsibly." He said lawyers believe Karenine left her house at about 1 a.m.

According to Lyft's web page, children 17 and under are forbidden to ride alone.

Relatives and friends of Karenine created an online page July 13 to raise money for her funeral. By Tuesday afternoon, it had raised about half of the $5,000 goal.

"Karenine's mother and family are in desperate need for your prayers, support and donations as she tries to piece together the circumstances of her daughter's passing of her soul," the page said. It said funeral details were incomplete.

The 1,700-student Somerset Canyons charter school in suburban Boynton Beach, the charter school Karenine attended, will plant a tree to honor her when students return for the fall, an assistant principal said this past week. Karenine was about to start her third year there and was to be in the eighth grade. She was in advanced classes in the school's medical program and wanted to be a psychiatrist.

http://stonerecipes.com/latest-suit-says-boynton-area-girl-13-who-died-in-crash-called-lyft/


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## Yozee (Jun 7, 2017)

What a ****ing joke!


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## Ivanz (Mar 26, 2017)

Living close to the new Jersey boarder scares the shit out of me. I'm sure I've driven under agers across it.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Nowadays, everyone is at fault for your child's actions except you. 

If Lyft or the driver somehow tricked or coerced the girl into getting a ride, then it would be their fault. Even if the driver should not have given her a ride it doesn't mean anything that happened after the ride ended is his fault, or Lyfts. 

This is just ridiculous.


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## 7Miles (Dec 17, 2014)

I have two young daughters . I would not be ok with Lyft taking them somewhere by themselves. 
Also, thank you for the news article. I always picked up underage and gave them 3 stars so I will never get them again but I think I'll be safer to not do this.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Mazda3 said:


> LANTANA -
> 
> The ride-sharing company Lyft took a 13-year-old girl in the middle of the night to a 17-year-old boy's home, where she got in his pickup and died when it slammed into two trees west of Lantana early on July 9, a lawsuit filed this week contends.
> 
> ...


No where ever is it in our duties as a subcontractor to check identification of account holders.
NO WHERE!

Whos name is the credit card under which was used to establish the account ?

Without a valid credit card , an account can NOT be established !

Who is RESPONSIBLE for the credit card ?

Pain and Suffering of the loss of a loved one under tragic circumstances causes us to lash out.
Sometimes irresponsibly.
What kind of lawyer would promote such a case ?
Profiteering from vulnerability and grief !


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> No where ever is it in our duties as a subcontractor to check identification of account holders.
> NO WHERE!
> 
> Whos name is the credit card under which was used to establish the account ?
> ...


Yep, and where does it end, in terms of Lyft's supposedly liability after the ride ended ? If she stayed at his house and eventually 5 years later he beats her and she dies, is Lyft still at fault ?

It's just ridiculous to say someone is at fault for someone else's actions for no reason at all.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

I see lawyers taking advantage of grief.
Creating an ordeal for the emotionally striken.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> I see lawyers taking advantage of grief.
> Creating an ordeal for the emotionally striken.


What winds up happening is the lawyer creates a "victim of Lyft" in the girl before the jury and the jury cares not about the merits in the case, and the fact that Lyft did nothing to perpetuate what happened in her death, but the jury just ignores common sense and sides with the supposed "victim of Lyft" just because.


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> What kind of lawyer would promote such a case ?


All of them!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Whats Black and Tan
And looks good on a Lawyer ?

( he says they taste bad)


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Wonder if Lyft is going to provide legal counsel to the driver(s)? Of course the driver is not at fault, however the cost just to respond to a wrongful death lawsuit is outrageous. 
Refer to the Santa Monica Uber driver that ended a ride with a pax and then the highly intoxicated pax gained entry into a wrong house and was shot dead by the homeowner. The last I read about a year ago is that the driver was named in a wrongful death lawsuit with no representation. I'm pretty sure this happened in 2016.



tohunt4me said:


> What kind of lawyer would promote such a case


The same as Lisa Riordan or whatever the hell that Boston lawyers name was that offered a crap deal to get her $25 million.



tohunt4me said:


> No where ever is it in our duties as a subcontractor to check identification of account holders.
> NO WHERE!


Actually most states do have standing laws about ethics, diligence and due care when conducting business with the public. However I'm sure that 99.99999% of TNC operators have no clue about that.


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## Uberbrent (Mar 22, 2016)

Go back and read your terms of service...never transport underage minors without a parent...and a dashcam. Also when canceling that trip, be sure to report fraudulent pax so they can be banned from future service.


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## Boom611 (Nov 8, 2016)

Uberbrent said:


> Go back and read your terms of service...never transport underage minors without a parent...and a dashcam. Also when canceling that trip, be sure to report fraudulent pax so they can be banned from future service.


Ive refused many rides to obvious underage riders this year. I pull up and ask their age and its usually around 14. 
They always look shocked and say all the other drivers drive them.
Ive also had many calls to pickup at a school where guards are present. No one does anything about this.
I immediately report them to uber and never once did ubers reply say they deactivated the childs account just that I wouldnt be paired with them again.


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## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

I agree with lawyers on this one. Come on......middle of the night you pick up a kid who is 13??? Now there is no question she is too young. Have some common sense! Put me on this jury .....LYFT should pay.


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## LEAFdriver (Dec 28, 2014)

Boom611 said:


> Ive refused many rides to obvious underage riders this year. I pull up and ask their age and its usually around 14.
> They always look shocked and *say all the other drivers drive them.*
> Ive also had many calls to pickup at a school where guards are present. No one does anything about this.
> I immediately report them to uber and never once did ubers reply say they deactivated the childs account just that I wouldnt be paired with them again.


Yes, this happens to me all the time also. I live near a Six Flags Theme Park and 50% of the requests I get from there are under 18. Just a few days ago, I get a request from "Daniel" and the pic shows a man who appears to be about 40-50 yrs old. I arrive and about 2 minutes later get a phone call from the pax. He tells me I am picking up his daughter and her 2 friends.
Red Flag="_Daughter_". So, I ASK him, "How OLD is your daughter?" He answers, 17.  So, still trying to save this ride (since I already checked the destination, it was on LYFT, and it would have been a decent fare) I asked him if either of her 2 friends are at least 18. He says he didn't think so.

So I start to tell him I can't take them without at least one pax who is 18 or older.

THEN....he starts ripping into me. He says that HE ALSO is a LYFT driver himself.....and if I don't _WANT TO_ take them, FINE!

I'm keeping my cool with him still, trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.....and I inform him that it is against the TOS to take pax under 18 with no adult present. I try to mention this forum, Uberpeople, and tell him there is alot of useful information here. He continues giving me attitude and talking over me saying how he drives Lyft for extra money, blah blah blah. He finally cancels....well after 5 minutes of request. (I'm still in email battle with 'support' on this one since they didn't give me my cancellation fee!) 

BUT, IF the man hadn't called in the first place....and the three 17 yr olds had approached my car....I _might have_ taken them!

My rule is: If to a reasonable person, they could pass for 18 yrs old....I will take them, no questions asked.

So, this guy shot himself in the foot by calling first.

So I AM a little shocked that '_all the other drivers_' will pick up 14 yr olds without even a question!


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Wonder if Lyft is going to provide legal counsel to the driver(s)? Of course the driver is not at fault, however the cost just to respond to a wrongful death lawsuit is outrageous.
> Refer to the Santa Monica Uber driver that ended a ride with a pax and then the highly intoxicated pax gained entry into a wrong house and was shot dead by the homeowner. The last I read about a year ago is that the driver was named in a wrongful death lawsuit with no representation. I'm pretty sure this happened in 2016.
> 
> The same as Lisa Riordan or whatever the hell that Boston lawyers name was that offered a crap deal to get her $25 million.
> ...


http://www.presstelegram.com/genera...hose-sued-in-inebriated-mans-long-beach-death


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Nowadays, everyone is at fault for your child's actions except you.
> 
> If Lyft or the driver somehow tricked or coerced the girl into getting a ride, then it would be their fault. Even if the driver should not have given her a ride it doesn't mean anything that happened after the ride ended is his fault, or Lyfts.
> 
> This is just ridiculous.


I drove this one guy in 2014, to some house. That guy died yesterday. I feel terrible guilt. If I hadn't driven him to that house, he wouldn't have gone on to the next thing he did, leading to the next thing, to the next..... .. where does a causal chaon end.
And what if it wasn't a minor. Is Lyft and driver still at fault if a pax dies afterwards? If I hurt someone can they sue my parents? If they hadn't made me that person wouldn't be hurt.


7Miles said:


> I have two young daughters . I would not be ok with Lyft taking them somewhere by themselves.


U should not let them have a Lyft account then. It's not Lyft's fault if people get in peoples' cars.

End all the child worship


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## llort (Oct 7, 2016)

I recieved what I consider to be an inappropriate PM from LAuberX on August 9, 2017.
Because of that PM, this comment is currently under edit.
The owner of uberpeople.net should be aware of this over-reach from LAuberX,
as this edit of my content contribution is the direct result of the PM I recieved.
Check back soon for edit updates while this content is updated.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

LEAFdriver said:


> Yes, this happens to me all the time also.


No, this doesn't happen to you all the time. You're not pinged at 1:30 am to take a 13 year old girl by herself to Six Flags.​


observer said:


> http://www.presstelegram.com/genera...hose-sued-in-inebriated-mans-long-beach-death


Long Beach not Santa Monica, thank you.


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## LEAFdriver (Dec 28, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> No, this doesn't happen to you all the time. You're not pinged at 1:30 am to take a 13 year old girl by herself to Six Flags.




If you noticed....I was replying to Boom611 and not to the OP. I also changed the section that I was agreeing with to* BOLD type*.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

llort said:


> Both UBER and LYFT fail to inform riders that they must be over 18. In the past week I've had to deny 6 under 18 riders and tell them that they need at least one adult, and THEY DIDN'T KNOW! UBER/LYFT need to be sued to holy high heaven for failing to inform riders of this fact.
> 
> One of these under 18 potential riders told me that it's HER UBER ACCOUNT! From HER DEBIT CARD, and she's 17 !!! WTF ?
> 
> ...


My daughter is 15 and a half. She's got a job, her drivers license, a passport, bank account, debit card and pays her own phone bill. So did I when I was her age, cept the phone bill.

She doesn't have an Uber account but does have an Uber eats account.

Uber/Lyft don't care, they just want the money.


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## RulesUnderstood (May 23, 2017)

kdyrpr said:


> I agree with lawyers on this one. Come on......middle of the night you pick up a kid who is 13??? Now there is no question she is too young. Have some common sense! Put me on this jury .....LYFT should pay.


Thank heavens you won't be on that jury! I picked up a girl this evening who was a friggen rising sophomore...she looked college-aged and it was only after chatting about her internship that I discovered it was a high school internship, not college. Not all kids look like kids, and obese girls look much older.

Little Karenine brought on her own misfortune, and I also wish I was on that jury, so her mom could put up another fundraising page: that one would be to get money to pay for the Lyft drivers defense attorney after the ***** loses in court and has to pay opposing counsel's fees!



observer said:


> My daughter is 15 and a half. She's got a job, her drivers license, a passport, bank account, debit card and pays her own phone bill. So did I when I was her age, cept the phone bill.
> 
> She doesn't have an Uber account but does have an Uber eats account.
> 
> Uber/Lyft don't care, they just want the money.


Uber/Lyft drivers aren't responsible for a child's bad behavior, especially a kid who 1) LIED to her mother as to where she was (supposedly home in bed) and was with a boy 2) her mother knew nothing about. Sounds like Mom oughta get her shit together and should have paid more attention to her dishonest kid.


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## Lag Monkey (Feb 6, 2015)

Why sue the drivers. Aren’t we the good guys getting little Cindy home safe after a night of drinking with the seniors?

Also like 20% of my rides are kids. You think drivers are really gonna ask everyone to see I.D. Everytime and loose 20% of business. Plus parents get their kids to use us as a safe way to get around. UBER even has a teen feature. Lyft should probably do the same. We should stop with these silly lawsuits


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## WestBurbsMac (Feb 5, 2016)

Lawsuits go after the deepest pockets. That's it. There's no one else to sue in this case.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Oh well. Kid was going to get out no matter what.


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## Jagger51 (Apr 13, 2016)

Seems like the "sleeping grandmother" should be named in the lawsuit.


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## Imonous (Jun 18, 2017)

llort said:


> Both UBER and LYFT fail to inform riders that they must be over 18. In the past week I've had to deny 6 under 18 riders and tell them that they need at least one adult, and THEY DIDN'T KNOW! UBER/LYFT need to be sued to holy high heaven for failing to inform riders of this fact.


Finally someone else caught on to their shenanigans. They'll give us these notices about underage riders but won't do the same for passengers. It's their way of covering their own butts while still profiting from those riders and the drivers taking them.

I wonder if uber/lyft can prove that they take these false rider reports seriously. Never heard of a rider being deactivated after one of those...



Jagger51 said:


> Seems like the "sleeping grandmother" should be named in the lawsuit.


Exactly. Seems she'd be more liable than the driver.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Nowadays, everyone is at fault for your child's actions except you.
> 
> If Lyft or the driver somehow tricked or coerced the girl into getting a ride, then it would be their fault. Even if the driver should not have given her a ride it doesn't mean anything that happened after the ride ended is his fault, or Lyfts.
> 
> This is just ridiculous.


All the driver had to do was ask for ID.


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## Imonous (Jun 18, 2017)

Demon said:


> All the driver had to do was ask for ID.


I don't see that in the employee handbook


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Wonder if Lyft is going to provide legal counsel to the driver(s)?


No way; they're going to throw him under the bus. "Look, Mr Judge, we tell our drivers not to take underage pax. It's right here on our website. This has nothing to do with us!".


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## Sub Guy (Sep 22, 2016)

Demon said:


> All the driver had to do was ask for ID.


It is my understanding that we can NOT ask for ID (protection of rider information cause every other TNC driver is a stalker and wants to know where little suzie lives.....). Nothing I have seen in the Terms of service for USING a TNC company states that they must provide the driver ID upon request. So no, I don't think it was that simple. I ask the person if they are over 18 and I accept their answer. Legally, I can do no more. I am probably wrong because I don't ask EVERY pax I pick up for ID so it could be said that I am profiling/discriminating against young looking riders.

So, if it turns out I was misinformed and asking for id is legal, I guess I would be safe if I asked every pax for ID and refused to give a ride to every pax that refused to give me id......hey do I need a special class to be able to identify phony IDs like bar tenders take?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Sub Guy said:


> It is my understanding that we can NOT ask for ID (protection of rider information cause every other TNC driver is a stalker and wants to know where little suzie lives.....). Nothing I have seen in the Terms of service for USING a TNC company states that they must provide the driver ID upon request. So no, I don't think it was that simple. I ask the person if they are over 18 and I accept their answer. Legally, I can do no more. I am probably wrong because I don't ask EVERY pax I pick up for ID so it could be said that I am profiling/discriminating against young looking riders.
> 
> So, if it turns out I was misinformed and asking for id is legal, I guess I would be safe if I asked every pax for ID and refused to give a ride to every pax that refused to give me id......hey do I need a special class to be able to identify phony IDs like bar tenders take?


The pax doesn't have to show ID and if they don't show ID in cases like this the driver shouldn't allow them into the car.



Imonous said:


> I don't see that in the employee handbook


There is no employee handbook.


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

Ridershare driver(s) should retain lawyer(s) to sue TNC's for failing to screen out under aged rider(s). What kind technology app can't do a simple check like if the rider(s) is/are under aged or carrying lethal weapons on board.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Sub Guy said:


> It is my understanding that we can NOT ask for ID


It's not stated anywhere that we cannot ask for ID. Have a read of the Uber pax contract. A little research goes a long way!

_In certain instances you may be asked to provide proof of identity to access or use the Services, and you agree that you may be denied access to or use of the Services if you refuse to provide proof of identity._


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## SpecialK8 (May 9, 2016)

Yes it's true that it's permissible to ask for ID. However, that is a far cry from being responsible for an underage passenger when the terms of service do not require such an identification to be made.

Furthermore, with Uber Teen, transporting a teen rider is permissible. Right now, there's no way of knowing whether it's an Uber Teen request. So you could be asking for ID for a teen rider who's parent has already given permission to ride.

Bottom line is there is not a requirement to check ID and as it stands, there is no actual violation for not doing so. It is not a crime for a driver to not check ID. It is not a violation of the Uber partner agreement.


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## Imonous (Jun 18, 2017)

elelegido said:


> _In certain instances you may be asked to provide proof of identity to access or use the Services, and you agree that you may be denied access to or use of the Services if you refuse to provide proof of identity._


Dear Uber,

Your driver refused to transport my service animal.

And the car smelled like weed.


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## UberDriver472837 (Aug 27, 2016)

Uber vets the drivers so why don't they vet riders?


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> No where ever is it in our duties as a subcontractor to check identification of account holders.
> NO WHERE!
> 
> Whos name is the credit card under which was used to establish the account ?
> ...


Good point! Neither Lyft nor Uber effectively screen all account holders and refuse to have a recognizable photo of the rider that we can use, so how are we to know? Plus, the companies make it impossible to report underaged account holders. Unless it's patently obvious that they're 17 and under, what are we to do? We then cancel the ride and get DINGED by both companies for the cancel and we can't let them know why. They need to require rider photographs and allow us to reject anyone who isn't the account holder. In this young girl's case? I'm willing to bet the mother allowed her to use the account to get around because she was busy working, so she's just as culpable in this case.



Imonous said:


> Dear Uber,
> 
> Your driver refused to transport my service animal.
> 
> And the car smelled like weed.


I refused to take a mother, her baby and toddler because she didn't have appropriate seating for the toddler. She reported me to Uber for being racist and I was off the app for two full days. I now cancel all grocery store, Wallmart, Target, and apartment rides.



Uberbrent said:


> Go back and read your terms of service...never transport underage minors without a parent...and a dashcam. Also when canceling that trip, be sure to report fraudulent pax so they can be banned from future service.


I've reported them as fraudulent accounts, but I'm willing to bet nothing is done about it. There should be a reason "MINOR"


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## Telsa34 (May 7, 2017)

Yozee said:


> What a &%[email protected]!*ing joke!


No what's the joke is the idiots that post up here that they try and justify picking up minors.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Boom611 said:


> Ive refused many rides to obvious underage riders this year. I pull up and ask their age and its usually around 14.
> They always look shocked and say all the other drivers drive them.
> Ive also had many calls to pickup at a school where guards are present. No one does anything about this.
> I immediately report them to uber and never once did ubers reply say they deactivated the childs account just that I wouldnt be paired with them again.


Exactly! I had a pickup, two teens strolling out of the house for a ride to high school after I'd driven 4 miles to pick them up. This is a waste of my time AND expenses, but does Lyft care? NOPE. Anyway, I asked how old they were and he said he was 17 and I said I couldn't drive them. Drove away and they tried immediately to order and that came to me because I was closest... Lyft gets pissy because I've refused a ride!!! I pull over and am trying to find Lyft's notification process to flag this account (where is it, anyway!) and I see another Lyft driver approaching. I flag her down and explain it to her. She drove on and they tried her as well and she pulled me over as I was exiting the area and said he tried to say he was 18 LOL. But they don't have proof. I have done that when I get calls to go to high schools, I text them and ask how old they are because I can't drive minors around. They cancel. Then it's not on me. But the fact is, Lyft and Uber do nothing and so I'd say this IS on Lyft, but not the driver. They do not effectively school drivers on this issue, it's just buried in legalese. They also need to be clear about appropriate child seating, for both the parents and the drivers. I'm tired of being told "OTHER UBER DRIVERS DO IT"



LEAFdriver said:


> Yes, this happens to me all the time also. I live near a Six Flags Theme Park and 50% of the requests I get from there are under 18. Just a few days ago, I get a request from "Daniel" and the pic shows a man who appears to be about 40-50 yrs old. I arrive and about 2 minutes later get a phone call from the pax. He tells me I am picking up his daughter and her 2 friends.
> Red Flag="_Daughter_". So, I ASK him, "How OLD is your daughter?" He answers, 17.  So, still trying to save this ride (since I already checked the destination, it was on LYFT, and it would have been a decent fare) I asked him if either of her 2 friends are at least 18. He says he didn't think so.
> 
> So I start to tell him I can't take them without at least one pax who is 18 or older.
> ...


New drivers will do it because they don't know. That is on the company 100%.



RulesUnderstood said:


> Thank heavens you won't be on that jury! I picked up a girl this evening who was a friggen rising sophomore...she looked college-aged and it was only after chatting about her internship that I discovered it was a high school internship, not college. Not all kids look like kids, and obese girls look much older.
> 
> Little Karenine brought on her own misfortune, and I also wish I was on that jury, so her mom could put up another fundraising page: that one would be to get money to pay for the Lyft drivers defense attorney after the ***** loses in court and has to pay opposing counsel's fees!
> 
> Uber/Lyft drivers aren't responsible for a child's bad behavior, especially a kid who 1) LIED to her mother as to where she was (supposedly home in bed) and was with a boy 2) her mother knew nothing about. Sounds like Mom oughta get her shit together and should have paid more attention to her dishonest kid.


I'm willing to bet the mother was in on the daughter using the account in the first place, hauling her around everywhere. If that is found to be true, wouldn't that pretty much negate this claim altogether? She can't have it both ways. EDIT: IT WAS THE ACCOUNT OF THE PARENTS OF THE BOY. IN EITHER CASE, UBER AND LYFT SHOULD MAKE IT CLEAR WE HAVE TO DENY ANY RIDE THAT ISN'T THE ACCOUNT HOLDER PRESENT AND THEY NEED TO HAVE A PHOTO OF THE ACCOUNT HOLDER ON EACH ACCOUNT.



WestBurbsMac said:


> Lawsuits go after the deepest pockets. That's it. There's no one else to sue in this case.


They are probably hoping the driver's insurance has some coverage for this.



Sub Guy said:


> It is my understanding that we can NOT ask for ID (protection of rider information cause every other TNC driver is a stalker and wants to know where little suzie lives.....). Nothing I have seen in the Terms of service for USING a TNC company states that they must provide the driver ID upon request. So no, I don't think it was that simple. I ask the person if they are over 18 and I accept their answer. Legally, I can do no more. I am probably wrong because I don't ask EVERY pax I pick up for ID so it could be said that I am profiling/discriminating against young looking riders.
> 
> So, if it turns out I was misinformed and asking for id is legal, I guess I would be safe if I asked every pax for ID and refused to give a ride to every pax that refused to give me id......hey do I need a special class to be able to identify phony IDs like bar tenders take?


I'm glad you don't work in a liquor store where asking for ID is quite required and legal. I see no reason for it to be against the law for us to ask for one and as for seeing their home destination? Where are we taking them? lol


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news...ly-charged-girl-death/TgNSCmFwpRcihK1eez6Y4N/

WEST PALM BEACH -
A then-17-year-old boy whose pickup slammed into two trees west of Lantana, killing 13-year-old passenger Karenine Saint Louis, will not be criminally charged in the crash, the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office said.

The July 9 death of the honor student led her mother to sue the ride-hailing company Lyft, saying it took the girl from her suburban Boynton Beach-area home to the boy's Greenacres home despite a company ban on transporting minors alone.

Jimmy Aguirre, now 18, still could face traffic citations in the crash, sheriff's spokeswoman Teri Barbera told The Palm Beach Post in an email Wednesday.

"Evidence does not support vehicle homicide," Barbera said. "The investigation is still ongoing. He will not face a vehicle homicide charge but may face other charges (traffic related)."

Because investigators are not done, they have not yet provided any documents beyond an initial crash report.

State records show Aguirre does not have a regular driver license, but only a Class E learner's permit, which requires someone who's at least 21 be in the front seat when he drives. The report on the crash says the two were the only ones in the 2002 Ford F-150 pickup when Aguirre lost control on a wet road. State records show a juvenile court judge suspended the learner's permit on July 21.

The crash report said the boy sustained minor injuries. It said neither person wore seat belts and that there's no indication alcohol or drugs were involved

On July 17, the girl's mother, Josie Saint Fleur sued Lyft in Palm Beach County Circuit Court, saying the driver violated a policy that forbids drivers to transport children 17 and under who are alone. Lawyers have said that, if not for Lyft's improper action, the girl never would have been in the boy's truck when it slammed into two trees west of Lantana.

The lawsuit originally also named as defendants Jimmy Aguirre and his mother Melissa, but later dropped her. She has declined to speak to The Post.

The mother's lawyer, in a modified complaint filed this month, said a Lyft driver who spoke no English, and didn't know his employer barred transporting minors, picked up a 13-year-old girl sneaking out of her gated-community home in her pajamas at 1:30 a.m., then took her to her boyfriend's home. The girl's family has said her grandmother was asleep and her mother, a nurse who was working an overnight shift, thought the girl was home in her bed. The mother has since said she never had heard of the boy before the crash.

But in a motion to dismiss, lawyers for Lyft say Karenine spent at least four hours at Aguirre's Greenacres home and died at 5:30 a.m. as he drove her home because his parents' Lyft account balance was too low. As a result, the lawyers said, Lyft can't possibly be responsible for her death, under a legal concept known as "intervening cause."

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news...lyft-didn-cause-crash/BfsIae0WkhTHKQDGWsqQmL/

WEST PALM BEACH -

A Lyft driver who spoke no English and didn't know  the ride-sharing company barred transporting minors picked up a 13-year-old girl sneaking out of her gated-community home in her pajamas at 1:30 a.m. one July morning, and then took her to her boyfriend's home hours before she was killed in a crash, lawyers say in an amended lawsuit complaint.

But in a motion to dismiss, lawyers for Lyft note that honor student Karenine Saint Louis spent at least four hours at Jimmy Aguirre's Greenacres home and died at 5:30 a.m. as the then-17-year-old boy drove her home in his pickup. The report on the crash says the two were the only ones in the 2002 Ford F-150. As a result, the lawyers said, Lyft can't possibly be responsible for her death, under a legal concept known as "intervening cause."

No charges have been filed in the crash. The Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office says it will not provide either additional details or documents because its investigation is not finished. A crash report said neither person wore seat belts and that there's no indication that either alcohol or drugs were involved.

On July 17, Josie Saint Fleur sued Lyft in Palm Beach County Circuit Court, saying the driver violated a policy that forbids drivers to transport children 17 and under who are alone.

Lawyers have said that, if not for Lyft's improper action, the girl never would have been in the boy's truck when it slammed into two trees west of Lantana.

The lawsuit also names as defendants Jimmy Aguirre and his mother.

In an revised complaint filed Friday, lawyers for the mother say that late on the evening July 8, the two teens discussed a clandestine rendezvous at the boy's home in a "lower income, high-crime area" 8 miles away from the girl's gated community in suburban Boynton Beach.

The girl's grandmother was asleep and her mother, a nurse who was working an overnight shift, thought the girl was home in her bed. The mother has since said she never had never heard of the boy before the crash.

The two teens "both knew that Karenine's family obviously would not allow her to go to the home of a 17-year-old male, particularly late at night," the suit says.

State records show Jimmy Aguirre, who turned 18 after the crash, had a Class E learner's permit, which requires someone who's at least 21 be in the front seat when he drives.

The suit says the couple opted to call Lyft. It says driver Leonardo Zambrano Dey picked up Karenine right just after 1:10 a.m. and dropped her at the boy's home about 15 minutes later. It says Dey does not speak English, never read the ban on taking minors and wasn't even able to communicate with his rider.

That placed the girl "in a foreseeably dangerous zone of risk," the suit says.

About 4½ hours the girl was dropped off, Jimmy discovered the balance was too low on his parents' Lyft account, which he'd used to bring Karenine to him, and he "had no option" to sneak her back home except driving her himself, the lawsuit says.

The girl was in the front seat of the pickup, possibly headed from his home to hers, when he lost control of the vehicle on a wet road. Jimmy suffered minor injuries. Karenine died, the suit said, "before dawn before her family ever knew Lyft had removed her from her safe home and placed her in peril."

But Lyft, in its motion to dismiss, says it "did not proximately cause" Karenine's death.

Lawyers invoked the "intervening cause" legal concept, which argues a person can't be responsible if something happens in between their act and an injury and it can't be proven that the initial act directly caused the damage.

Lyft's motion said there is no legal basis "to argue that it was reasonably foreseeable that, several hours after a Lyft ride, Saint Louis would get into a vehicle with an unlicensed driver, much less that the driver would operate the vehicle negligently, crash, and kill St. Louis."


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## Sub Guy (Sep 22, 2016)

melusine3 said:


> Exactly! I had a pickup, two teens strolling out of the house for a ride to high school after I'd driven 4 miles to pick them up. This is a waste of my time AND expenses, but does Lyft care? NOPE. Anyway, I asked how old they were and he said he was 17 and I said I couldn't drive them. Drove away and they tried immediately to order and that came to me because I was closest... Lyft gets pissy because I've refused a ride!!!
> 
> {SUB GUY} I had the same thing happen to me. Pulled over around the corner trying to figure out how to cancel the ride and report it and I get the new request which I let time out and take the hit....it sucks.
> 
> I'm glad you don't work in a liquor store where asking for ID is quite required and legal. I see no reason for it to be against the law for us to ask for one and as for seeing their home destination? Where are we taking them? lol


I spent 3 years as the General Manger of a casual dining restaurant and checked many an ID there. While we can ask for ID (as someone pointed out in the pax agreement there is no guidance provided for when we should. ABC Liquor LAW is very clear. We don't know the address we pick up or drop off at is their home, a friends, or whatever. We are not allowed to ask for ID since we then KNOW where the person lives and could use that information, plus whatever other info we discover in our conversation to:
1. Stalk them
2. rob their house
3. pay them a visit in the middle of the night
4. use their name, address and any other info we find in their trash to steal their identity
etc. etc. etc.

Also, I have been accused of being racist for even asking if the person was 18 so should we adopt "bar" rules and post signs saying we ID all riders under 40?

Legally, they do not have to provide "the driver" with that info (and could be refused service as a result).....Uber and Lyft may have it to confirm billing address but we are not given that info or advised when to ask for it because then the companies are responsible (to some degree) with what we do with the info, and face it, the companies pockets are deeper than ours or we wouldn't be driving for them.


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