# Pay us by the hour.



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


----------



## IthurstwhenIP (Jan 12, 2018)

Like,

I am all in favor of give me more. Come on Uber


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

What if uber can just print more money..
That should take care of all the problems.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

mbd said:


> What if uber can just print more money..
> That should take care of all the problems.


They can't.

Investors have wised up.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

mbd said:


> What if uber can just print more money..
> That should take care of all the problems.


Please keep answers relevant to the posting.


----------



## flyntflossy10 (Jun 2, 2017)

Beninmankato said:


> Please keep answers relevant to the posting.


this isn't burger king


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


Hourly rate would benefit some drivers and hurt others. Better drivers would suffer most.

Everyone gets a trophy!


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> Please keep answers relevant to the posting.


You must be new to UPNet


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

OldBay said:


> Hourly rate would benefit some drivers and hurt others. Better drivers would suffer most.
> 
> Everyone gets a trophy!


If the rate is "fair" not sure why any driver would "suffer" unless they are not accepting trips and that would be on them. I certainly see this benefiting passengers as drivers would be motivated to accept every ride. I do see how it would take away strategies that 'good' drivers use but I think evening out the playing field is a good thing overall and motivated drivers are still going to make more by doing more.



New2This said:


> You must be new to UPNet


I am not, thus my request.


----------



## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

mbd said:


> What if uber can just print more money..
> That should take care of all the problems.


 no that's called worthless stock ?


----------



## Roadmasta (Aug 4, 2017)

Don't drive unless good incentives or surge. That's autocorrect by drivers.


----------



## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


so if they want to pay $15 per hour thats .25 per minute? no thanks! i depend on those $40 rides in 20 minutes to up my pay! they can keep that crap!


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

NotanEmployee said:


> so if they want to pay $15 per hour thats .25 per minute? no thanks! i depend on those $40 rides in 20 minutes to up my pay! they can keep that crap!


What would be your number?


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


How would you justify the cost of vehicles unless the hourly rate commensurate labor, fuel, and depreciation.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

No Prisoners said:


> How would you justify the cost of vehicles unless the hourly rate commensurate labor, fuel, and depreciation.


We'd still be contractors and still responsible for our expenses. Sorry, but I am not sure what you're asking.


----------



## Roadmasta (Aug 4, 2017)

The calculation would be like NYC. It includes all costs gas, insurance, depreciation and others. These app companies have flooded all markets with low cost transportation without the drawback problem of oversaturation of drivers in a area. The problem is they have no morals and will flood any market to gain market share. They false advertise high earnings to get suckers on the road. The outcome is drivers not making money and the turnover rate is high.


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> We'd still be contractors and still responsible for our expenses. Sorry, but I am not sure what you're asking.


OK let's try again. According to your post you're suggesting to take rides on an hourly rate. Since you're providing rides in your personal vehicle how much per hour do you suggest uber to pay and how many miles and rides would you be willing to provide per hour.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Idiocy.
Restore 2015 rates.

Anything else is bullshit.
Other than tech, what costs 60% less today than it did four years ago?


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

No Prisoners said:


> OK let's try again. According to your post you're suggesting to take rides on an hourly rate. Since you're providing rides in your personal vehicle how much per hour do you suggest uber to pay and how many miles and rides would you be willing to provide per hour.


Let me restate my OP. Forget about milage rates, only pay minute rates but from the time the ride is accepted to the time it is completed. Rates would vary by market as it does now to adjust for cost of living. My personal price would probably be somewhere around $.50/minute base rate.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Never gonna happen.
Accounting nightmare.


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> Let me restate my OP. Forget about milage rates, only pay minute rates but from the time the ride is accepted to the time it is completed. Rates would vary by market as it does now to adjust for cost of living. My personal price would probably be somewhere around $.50/minute base rate.


So at 50 cents pMinute if you drive for 1 hour you take $30, regardless how many miles driven. Essentially at 60 miles per hour on highway you'd driven 60 miles for $30. How much would you account for fuel and depreciation of your vehicle. 
Your proposal works perfectly if you don't provide the service on your personal vehicle and uber pays for fuel. Otherwise you're losing money. Do the math.


----------



## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> What would be your number?


based on what i earn now for each ride....and not getting paid wait time...$80 per hour....just to make what i do now


----------



## Roadmasta (Aug 4, 2017)

In NYC suburbs I was charging $3.25 per mile and $60 per hour waiting time. This was seven years ago. Uber killed it, still have customers that pay that rate for black.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Roadmasta said:


> In NYC suburbs I was charging $3.25 per mile and $60 per hour waiting time. This was seven years ago. Uber killed it, still have customers that pay that rate for black.


That is approximately what I charge here in PHX.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

I would probably drive an hour for $30 be it 5 miles or 50. It's more than I average now. You and I both know that it's not going to be back to back hour long trips and the trip distances would average out. Maybe my figure is low, the details will need ironing out. It's the general concept that I'm interested in.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

The general concept will never be implemented


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

NotanEmployee said:


> based on what i earn now for each ride....and not getting paid wait time...$80 per hour....just to make what i do now


Yeah, I don't see any company paying $80/ hour for regular rides.


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> I would probably drive an hour for $30 be it 5 miles or 50. It's more than I average now. You and I both know that it's not going to be back to back hour long trips and the trip distances would average out. Maybe my figure is low, the details will need ironing out. It's the general concept that I'm interested in.


You have the right to sell your services at whatever rate you please. No one here walks in your shoes. Good luck.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

No Prisoners said:


> You have the right to sell your services at whatever rate you please. No one here walks in your shoes. Good luck.


Actually I don't, but really wish I did. That would be the ultimate standard, to be able to set our own rates.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Beninmankato said:


> Actually I don't, but really wish I did. That would be the ultimate standard, to be able to set our own rates.


Print business cards.
Set your own rates.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

I kind of feel like the government is gonna push to regulate Uber and at the same time investors gonna push for profits. 

Honestly I see a future where with reduced driver population, required 3rd row seating, mandatory accept all pings, driver select shifts. 

This would make the vast majority of rides pool and express pool rides. 

If government intervention don’t happen I believe Uber will keep the markets over saturated then in recession time cut drivers rates in half.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Other than tech, what costs 60% less today than it did four years ago?


Uber rides.


----------



## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

Dear Uber.

I have no skills for this job, I bring sub.par equipment into this job, didnt even interview for this job and frankly, this isnt even technically a job as I am an Independent Contractor.

$25/hr wages now!!!

(Did I miss anything?)


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Beninmankato said:


> What would be your number?


I wouldnt go for it if the hourly rate (from the ping to the drop) off was $50

I've been recording my paid time to total time ratio since the first of the year and most weeks I'm in the 30% to 40% range so $50/hr with a passenger in the car, equates to $15 to $20; this is no better and probably worse than what I'm doing now


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


I'll take $35 an hour its over the $20-25 
I already make over my 12 hour shifts. 
Get back to me when you get that set up...


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Are you willing to do 90% acceptance, 10% cancellations, including pool?


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> Are you willing to do 90% acceptance, 10% cancellations, including pool?


Irrelevant to my post.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Beninmankato said:


> Irrelevant to my post.


Hourly pay is irrelevant
Go get a McJob.



Merc7186 said:


> Dear Uber.
> 
> I have no skills for this job, I bring sub.par equipment into this job, didnt even interview for this job and frankly, this isnt even technically a job as I am an Independent Contractor.
> 
> ...


Liner ****ed the whole thing up by slittng their own throats, trying to drive the other out of business.



Wolfgang Faust said:


> Hourly pay is irrelevant
> Go get a McJob.
> 
> 
> Liner @@@@ed the whole thing up by slittng their own throats, trying to drive the other out of business.


LUBER!


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

oldfart said:


> I wouldnt go for it if the hourly rate (from the ping to the drop) off was $50
> 
> I've been recording my paid time to total time ratio since the first of the year and most weeks I'm in the 30% to 40% range so $50/hr with a passenger in the car, equates to $15 to $20; this is no better and probably worse than what I'm doing now


Sounds like a slower market Do you accept most requests? With my proposal you are getting paid from the second you accept the trip. So it would benefit a driver to take almost any trip offered.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> Irrelevant to my post.


No most responses have been relevant to your post.

You're just getting butthurt because you had the one great idea that was going to change the industry but you didn't think it through and people are giving you a dose of reality.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Beninmankato said:


> Let me restate my OP. Forget about milage rates, only pay minute rates but from the time the ride is accepted to the time it is completed. Rates would vary by market as it does now to adjust for cost of living. My personal price would probably be somewhere around $.50/minute base rate.





Beninmankato said:


> Sounds like a slower market Do you accept most requests? With my proposal you are getting paid from the second you accept the trip. So it would benefit a driver to take almost any trip offered.


It still benefits a driver now to take any ride. You don't make anything "parked" and The per mile rate is more on the short rides. Your proposal would make the long rides a money loser my 50 mile one hour trip pays me $42. My expenses are 30 cents a mile ($15! so I figure I net $27.

Your proposal at 50 cents a min would gross $30 and net me $15

Sorry, no thanks. Any rate structure needs to provide for the expense of the car plus something to compensate for our time


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

oldfart said:


> It still benefits a driver now to take any ride. You don't make anything "parked" and The per mile rate is more on the short rides. Your proposal would make the long rides a money loser my 50 mile one hour trip pays me $42. My expenses are 30 cents a mile ($15! so I figure I net $27.
> 
> Your proposal at 50 cents a min would gross $30 and net me $15
> 
> Sorry, no thanks. Any rate structure needs to provide for the expense of the car plus something to compensate for our time


Many drivers would disagree and will be very selective on which rides they accept. I did not propose a rate, I only used the 50cents/minute as an example of what I may find acceptable. At my price I guess I would average about $25 hour before expenses which I think works for me.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Beninmankato said:


> Many drivers would disagree and will be very selective on which rides they accept. I did not propose a rate, I only used the 50cents/minute as an example of what I may find acceptable. At my price I guess I would average about $25 hour before expenses which I think works for me.


I reject my first 3 pings at the airport unless it's a long ride or an XL ride I have to take the 4th or go to the end of the queue. I've understood why anyone would routinely reject rides on the street. I can't see the destination and I get paid for long pickups. I have no basis to decide what's going to be a bad ride


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Okay so pay me $15.00 per hour starting from the time I accept the ping until I drop the PAX off. Great I would love that, however I still need to get a reasonable rate for mileage. I would be happy with the current annual IRS mileage rate for miles driven to the ping. Once the trip is started the current market rates per mile with no less that 75¢ per mile as an absolute minimum rate plus a Base Fare amount of $2.00 at the absolute minimum added to time and miles. If other markets paid more like some do now fine, but the above rates should be an absolute minimum to the driver. What Uber & Lyft opt to charge the PAX on top of that is up to them, I don't really care.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> Okay so pay me $15.00 per hour starting from the time I accept the ping until I drop the PAX off. Great I would love that, however I still need to get a reasonable rate for mileage. I would be happy with the current annual IRS mileage rate for miles driven to the ping. Once the trip is started the current market rates per mile with no less that 75¢ per mile as an absolute minimum rate plus a Base Fare amount of $2.00 at the absolute minimum added to time and miles. If other markets paid more like some do now fine, but the above rates should be an absolute minimum to the driver. What Uber & Lyft opt to charge the PAX on top of that is up to them, I don't really care.


If the per minute rate was sufficient it would cover all of your mileage.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Beninmankato said:


> If the per minute rate was sufficient it would cover all of your mileage.


I just can't see a fair rate that covers all situations. If I get an airport run I can bring in $60 per hour with no traffic. I would not want to give that up for a fixed hourly rate.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

Funny how


FLKeys said:


> I just can't see a fair rate that covers all situations. If I get an airport run I can bring in $60 per hour with no traffic. I would not want to give that up for a fixed hourly rate.


I find it strange how all these drivers complain about rates and when I propose a system that would pay more consistently all of a sudden drivers are making 50 60 80 an hour.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

oldfart said:


> It still benefits a driver now to take any ride.


No, it does not. At busy time, taking a long pickup when a better trip with pop in a minute...is a bad idea.



Beninmankato said:


> Funny how
> 
> I find it strange how all these drivers complain about rates and when I propose a system that would pay more consistently all of a sudden drivers are making 50 60 80 an hour.


When you've been around here longer you will realize is market dependent. Some brag about how much they make, others complain about how little.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Beninmankato said:


> Funny how
> 
> I find it strange how all these drivers complain about rates and when I propose a system that would pay more consistently all of a sudden drivers are making 50 60 80 an hour.


Market dependent, my main market rates are fine, when I'm in Miami the rates suck. When I go to Orlando I just laugh and never consider turning on the app.

My statement about $60 per hour only applies to airport runs as I pointed out. On a good week I can get 3 a week. On an average week, maybe one a week. On slow weeks they are rare.

My issues is volume, there is just minimal demand right now, ive received 1 ping in the last 10+ hours I have been on line over two evenings.


----------



## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> If the rate is "fair" not sure why any driver would "suffer" unless they are not accepting trips and that would be on them. I certainly see this benefiting passengers as drivers would be motivated to accept every ride. I do see how it would take away strategies that 'good' drivers use but I think evening out the playing field is a good thing overall and motivated drivers are still going to make more by doing more.
> 
> 
> I am not, thus my request.


There would be new strategies. Now wait time would be a plus. Shorter trips would be more desirable than longer trips ( less wear and tear).ect.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

R3drang3r said:


> There would be new strategies. Now wait time would be a plus. Shorter trips would be more desirable than longer trips ( less wear and tear).ect.


You're not getting paid if you're not on a trip so I'm not sure why wait times would be an advantage. Long trip short trips you'd always be getting paid the same rate so the biggest strategy will be trying to stay as busy as possible. This would benefit the passengers and hopefully in the long run the drivers, because happy passengers mean retaining business and gaining business.



FLKeys said:


> Market dependent, my main market rates are fine, when I'm in Miami the rates suck. When I go to Orlando I just laugh and never consider turning on the app.
> 
> My statement about $60 per hour only applies to airport runs as I pointed out. On a good week I can get 3 a week. On an average week, maybe one a week. On slow weeks they are rare.
> 
> My issues is volume, there is just minimal demand right now, ive received 1 ping in the last 10+ hours I have been on line over two evenings.


Unfortunately only thing drivers can do about demand is providing the best service they can so as to retain customers. I've driven all over including Florida so I definitely am aware about the low rates in many places.


----------



## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> You're not getting paid if you're not on a trip so I'm not sure why wait times would be an advantage. Long trip short trips you'd always be getting paid the same rate so the biggest strategy will be trying to stay as busy as possible. This would benefit the passengers and hopefully in the long run the drivers, because happy passengers mean retaining business and gaining business.


Wait time, as in the passenger wants to run into the store to pick up something.
Driving 20 miles on a trip that takes you 30 minutes. Or taking too short trips that take you 30 minutes in which you only drive 10 miles.
Less miles equals less wear and tear.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

R3drang3r said:


> Wait time, as in the passenger wants to run into the store to pick up something.
> Driving 20 miles on a trip that takes you 30 minutes. Or taking too short trips that take you 30 minutes in which you only drive 10 miles.
> Less miles equals less wear and tear.


Oh okay thank you for clarifying. This brings us to another advantage of this system. We wouldn't worry so much about passengers hurrying to the car or making their pit stops.


----------



## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> Oh okay thank you for clarifying. This brings us to another advantage of this system. We wouldn't worry so much about passengers hurrying to the car or making their pit stops.


BINGO?


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

The only solution is restoring rates to 2015 levels.


----------



## RodB (Jun 17, 2019)

If they paid per hour you would have drivers driving as slow as possible. I can just see it now, Uber drivers putting around the city with the cars lined up behind them blowing their horns...
What would be the reason for getting to the pickup quickly if they paid by the hour.

We would be getting kicked off for stopping at stop lights if Uber decides it is taking to long to get to destinations...


----------



## justaGoober (Mar 12, 2019)

It seems to me the solution would be a graduated rate...wether it’s by the mile, minute,
or both. Something like: the first 3 miles/minutes pays X per mile/minute. Then miles/minute 4-10 pays .8 * X , 11-25 pays .7 * X, and so forth.....so we would have incentive to take the shorter trips, but if you prefer the longer trips (minimizing the friction/inefficiencies of pickups and dead time) you would not really lose out. 

Just my 2 cents...


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Beninmankato said:


> Irrelevant to my post.


How is it iirrelevant? Oh you want guarantee pay but the same freedom to cherry pick and do the bare minimum, got it. You think theyd give hourly minimums and allow people to sit there with a low acceptance rate?


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> How is it iirrelevant? Oh you want guarantee pay but the same freedom to cherry pick and do the bare minimum, got it. You think theyd give hourly minimums and allow people to sit there with a low acceptance rate?


I never said anything about hourly minimums.



justaGoober said:


> It seems to me the solution would be a graduated rate...wether it's by the mile, minute,
> or both. Something like: the first 3 miles/minutes pays X per mile/minute. Then miles/minute 4-10 pays .8 * X , 11-25 pays .7 * X, and so forth.....so we would have incentive to take the shorter trips, but if you prefer the longer trips (minimizing the friction/inefficiencies of pickups and dead time) you would not really lose out.
> 
> Just my 2 cents...


Thank you for giving me a thoughtful answer.


----------



## Spider-Man (Jul 7, 2017)

flyntflossy10 said:


> this isn't burger king


even there its not true. one day i was in Drive thru about an hour before closing and i asked for my food to made fresh and they refused, i got them to say it again and i recorded it. The next week i didnt see those night crew again.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


An hourly wage takes all the excitement of driving. Additionally, operating a big transportation company is no longer profitable these days, so adding to the overhead by paying by the hour will just hasten the company's demise.

Uber is losing money, this is now public information as Uber went public. I've driven for several large cab companies, they all went belly up ( and survived only as cooperatives ). Uber's only hope, if most of their eggs are in the rideshare basket, is to raise rates closer to what taxis are charging. Otherwise, Uber is doomed. If they are reading this, heed this advice (many years in the biz ).


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> An hourly wage takes all the excitement of driving. Additionally, operating a big transportation company is no longer profitable these days, so adding to the overhead by paying by the hour will just hasten the company's demise.
> 
> Uber is losing money, this is now public information as Uber went public. I've driven for several large cab companies, they all went belly up ( and survived only as coopratives ). Uber's only hope, if most of their eggs are in the rideshare basket, is to raise rates closer to what taxis are charging. Otherwise, Uber is doomed. If they are reading this, heed this advice (many years in the biz ).


I never said anything about a guaranteed hourly wage. Not sure what excitement you are referring to,; how much money you'll make that day?


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Beninmankato said:


> I never said anything about a guaranteed hourly wage. Not sure what excitement you are referring to,; how much money you'll make that day?


I just went by the title, "pay us by the hour', and interpreted it that way. But, paying by the timer alone, if that is what you mean, it would have to be a hefty hourly rate, to counter act dead time.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> I just went by the title, "pay us by the hour', and interpreted it that way. But, paying by the timer alone, if that is what you mean, it would have to be a hefty hourly rate, to counter act dead time.


We don't get paid for dead time now.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Beninmankato said:


> We don't get paid for dead time now.


Not the point.

So, if you are going to drop the mileage rate, and rely on the timed rate, it would have to be substantial, to accommodate dead time.

The fact that the current rate doesn't actually pay us for dead time, isn't the point -- noting that in some markets, it will be sufficient to accommodate dead time, and in others, not so much.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> Not the point.
> 
> So, if you are going to drop the mileage rate, and rely on the timed rate, it would have to be substantial, to accommodate dead time.
> 
> The fact that the current rate doesn't actually pay us for dead time, isn't the point -- noting that in some markets, it will be sufficient to accommodate dead time, and in others, not so much.


I agree, the timer rate would have to be acceptable to the majority of drivers in a given area. Also as I noted earlier surge pricing should still be implemented when more drivers are needed.


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> If the rate is "fair" not sure why any driver would "suffer" unless they are not accepting trips and that would be on them. I certainly see this benefiting passengers as drivers would be motivated to accept every ride. I do see how it would take away strategies that 'good' drivers use but I think evening out the playing field is a good thing overall and motivated drivers are still going to make more by doing more.
> 
> 
> I am not, thus my request.


 Some of us work hard to differentiate our tactics and profitability while many if not most ants drive around in circles or sit in parking lots waiting hours to make $18 - $30.

I average a little over $40 an hour which is not the metric I usually use to measure my profitability. Good operators with great strategies would be hurt by such tactics while lazy louts who have no drive to get better would be rewarded. I would like to see rates be moved up to a more consistent level however.
That .60 a mile is horseshit.


----------



## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

So if I get paid the same amount per hour no matter what I do, is it okay if I try to go to less busy spots so that I can get paid without having to do as many rides?

If this bill passes when would the changes be made? Would you have set schedule every week? When would you get your schedule?


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Beninmankato said:


> I never said anything about hourly minimums.
> 
> 
> Thank you for giving me a thoughtful answer.


What the hell do you call an hourly base rate? Thats the exact same thing....


----------



## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

You want an hourly rate? Get a job that pays in hourly rate.



Wolfgang Faust said:


> The only solution is restoring rates to 2015 levels.


Right, because Uber made profit in 2015.. oh wait.


----------



## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


You are assuming that Uber gives a shit what you think or whether you make money or not. They do not.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

Amos69 said:


> Some of us work hard to differentiate our tactics and profitability while many if not most ants drive around in circles or sit in parking lots waiting hours to make $18 - $30.
> 
> I average a little over $40 an hour which is not the metric I usually use to measure my profitability. Good operators with great strategies would be hurt by such tactics while lazy louts who have no drive to get better would be rewarded. I would like to see rates be moved up to a more consistent level however.
> That .60 a mile is horseshit.


I personally am tired of playing games with the system in order to make money. This system would not reward lazyness. The passengers would be better served because it would be to the drivers benefit to accept every trip offered. Now drivers are ignoring requests in order to maximize earnings, and that hurts the rideshare community. On another note your disrespect towards other drivers is not welcoming.


As it is we are not getting paid for our time and resources spent getting to the next ride. This is wrong in my opinion and I am proposing a method that would fix it while also serving our customers more efficiently. I think enough had been said on the subject on this posting. Thank you for those who made thoughtful comments


----------



## RodB (Jun 17, 2019)

As I said before.
If we get a ping and are then on the clock getting paid by the hour how many drivers are going to get to their pickup as quickly as they can? 

Everyone would be driving slowly, the customer would be waiting then they would drive slowly to the destination...

Oh damn, I think that light may be getting ready to turn yellow, better slow down..I got to the stop sign first but I will just be nice and let the other cars go first.

How is this improving the experience for the rider? Which type of driver does this benefit?

Answer each of those honestly then we can discuss the by hour pay.


----------



## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


lol then I would go slow... so......very........slow. Pax would rather walk... that slow. Your idea is not good at all. It doesn't provide any incentive to complete task in timely fashion.

As for getting paid from accepting rides... here's a thought... don't accept rides from far away. Just because you get ping, doesn't mean you need to go there. Use brain, if too far, ignore it.



Beninmankato said:


> I personally am tired of playing games with the system in order to make money. This system would not reward lazyness. The passengers would be better served because it would be to the drivers benefit to accept every trip offered. Now drivers are ignoring requests in order to maximize earnings, and that hurts the rideshare community. On another note your disrespect towards other drivers is not welcoming.
> 
> 
> As it is we are not getting paid for our time and resources spent getting to the next ride. This is wrong in my opinion and I am proposing a method that would fix it while also serving our customers more efficiently. I think enough had been said on the subject on this posting. Thank you for those who made thoughtful comments


You know what would serve community better? more drivers. This way there would be no problem with far pickups.


----------



## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


Which is it... do you want an hourly rate, or payment for mileage from accept point to dropoff?

If you want an hourly rate, you may want to relocate to California if they pass legislation making drivers employees. Enjoy your $12 /hr x 34 hr work week - taxes/withholdings. You may come out ahead of McDonalds employees.

If you want pay from pickup, you may want to relocate to Seattle. We're expecting an upcoming cut from $1.11 /mile to $0.63 /mile, but at least you'd get paid the extra 24 cents in per minute charges. It's totally survivable as long as you don't have a mortgage payment on you house. (median house price is $800,000)


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


You are. It's called mileage and time


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> What would be your number?


At the end of the month, it seems I'm around 22/hr when everything is averaged out. Then of course take expenses and depreciation from that.

If it was anything less than 20/hr, would not be worth it.

If they made it 20/hr, everyone would just drive 80 hours a week, they would drive slow times so they could sit at home or in car and do other work. Then Uber would have to lower the rate to 10/hr.

I just don't see any other way for it to work. Throttling and distributing pings behind the scenes is about the only way it can work when there is a surplus of drivers.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

amazinghl said:


> You want an hourly rate? Get a job that pays in hourly rate.
> 
> 
> Oh, wait...riders were not *****ing about fares in 2015.
> ...


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


My market we do get an hourly rate. Not sure why your market isn't like that, I thought all drivers got an hourly rate. Mine is $16.80 or $.28 a minute.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

amazinghl said:


> You want an hourly rate? Get a job that pays in hourly rate.
> 
> 
> Right, because Uber made profit in 2015.. oh wait.
> ...


Hmm.
Looks like if 2015 rates were restored, Uber would lose less money!


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver♧ (Apr 5, 2018)

Beninmankato said:


> We'd still be contractors and still responsible for our expenses. Sorry, but I am not sure what you're asking.


Then you must be an Uber Mathematician.


----------



## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

mbd said:


> What if uber can just print more money..
> That should take care of all the problems.


IPO isn't far from printing.money and issuing corporate bonds would.be exactly that, printing.money.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

mbd said:


> What if uber can just print more money..
> That should take care of all the problems.


That's clearly not going to work.

Uber should instead make ratings stars official currency, along with Uber Pro points.



Beninmankato said:


> If the rate is "fair" not sure why any driver would "suffer"


If.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> That's clearly not going to work.
> 
> *Uber should instead make ratings stars official currency, along with Uber Pro points.*
> 
> ...


Yes, at the end of a shift we exchange stars for tickets which can be used at one of several recreation games which can give stuffed animals and other knick nacks.

You can then exchange seven stuffed blue octopi for a $75 gift certificate at Fudruckers.


----------



## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Such endless silliness.

I defy you to find any similar task that pays by the hour. The same agitators who constantly cry for hourly pay are the very folks who insist we're just taxis --- try to find a cabbies who punches the clock.

You want hourly pay, there's always the bus company, as well as sundry other driving gigs. I hear Amazon is hiring. 

Just vote with your feet and quit pissing in my pool.

I simply love how Uber has worked for me. Having been freed from the time clock, I doubt I'd ever be happy punching a clock again.


----------



## FuberNYC (Jan 2, 2017)

Why, why, why would you want that? Want to make over $15/hour then go flip burger at McD's


----------



## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

i believe if just turn on my app during optimal conditions and never deal with drunks,events or blizzards i should get paid the same as people who do :woot:

there. fixed op's post for him.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Going to an hourly rate won't solve the problem unless that rate is high enough. They could more easily solve the problem by raising rates per mile and minute across the board.


----------



## Thepeoplewearent (Jul 26, 2018)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Never gonna happen.
> Accounting nightmare.


This


----------



## Westerner (Dec 22, 2016)

Not in favor. Driven in 2 markets so far, Columbus and Denver. I literally make double per hour in Denver what I made in Columbus. How would that work out with an hourly wage? Hourly wage also means we are now employees. That means Uber/Lyft can tell us when to work, for how long, and in what areas. NO THANKS! Current system is far from perfect but it sure beats what is being proposed here.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> I simply love how Uber has worked for me. Having been freed from the time clock, I doubt I'd ever be happy punching a clock again.


Clearly, your lateral frontal cortex is imposing constraints on your processing. Reverberi has done interesting work in the field of artificial constraints in problem solving..

In layman's terms, having to punch a clock is an introduced constraint on being paid by the hour - it is not an actual requirement. When Uberlyft paid me by the hour during their hourly guarantee experiments I did not need to carry a punchcard clock around with me in the trunk.


----------



## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Going to an hourly rate won't solve the problem unless that rate is high enough. They could more easily solve the problem by _restoring _rates per mile _to where they were before the cuts_.


there fixed your post for you. no such thing as raising rates until they are restored to pre pay cut levels.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Clearly, your lateral frontal cortex is imposing constraints on your processing. Reverberi has done interesting work in the field of artificial constraints in problem solving..
> 
> In layman's terms, having to punch a clock is an introduced constraint on being paid by the hour - it is not an actual requirement. When Uberlyft paid me by the hour during their hourly guarantee experiments I did not need to carry a punchcard clock around with me in the trunk.


Snotty, condescending post.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Beninmankato said:


> Please keep answers relevant to the posting.


Who are you? We'll discuss and evolve the versatile as we choose. I hate people who attempt to control others.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Snotty, condescending post.


Yes, absolutely.


----------



## ANTlifebaby (Oct 28, 2018)

You know what happens when you get paid by the hour?

You have to wear a uniform.
You have to work a crappy 10-6 shift.
You subsidize drivers who make more than you, drive smarter than you.
You penalize drivers who know how to maintain their cars, drive smarter cars than you.

And most importantly, you have a boss.

No thanks.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

ANTlifebaby said:


> You know what happens when you get paid by the hour?
> 
> You have to wear a uniform.
> You have to work a crappy 10-6 shift.
> ...


Again, no. As stated above, when Uberlyft was paying by the hour with its guaranteed hourly rate experiments, I was paid by the hour. I started work when I wanted and finished when I wanted. The rate was $40/hr - if I worked 3 hours then I'd be paid $120. If I worked 4 hours then I'd receive $160. I did not have to:

Wear a uniform
Work a crappy 10-6 shift
Subsidise drivers who made more than I, drove smarter than I
Penalise drivers who know how to maintain their cars, drove smarter cars than I

And most importantly, I did not have a boss.


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Oscar Levant said:


> An hourly wage takes all the excitement of driving. Additionally, operating a big transportation company is no longer profitable these days, so adding to the overhead by paying by the hour will just hasten the company's demise.
> 
> Uber is losing money, this is now public information as Uber went public. I've driven for several large cab companies, they all went belly up ( and survived only as cooperatives ). Uber's only hope, if most of their eggs are in the rideshare basket, is to raise rates closer to what taxis are charging. Otherwise, Uber is doomed. If they are reading this, heed this advice (many years in the biz ).


Sir you're 100% correct. Notice how uber's losses increase proportionate to growth, except last quarters report showed losses increasing while growth receding. Uber's business model inherently flawed based on deminishing returns, oversaturation of drivers, causing over supply.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

For about the tenth and the last time you are not getting paid a flat rate by the hour. You are getting paid for time not distance. Timer starts the second you accept a trip and stops the second you drop off. If you drive 5 minutes out of an hour you get paid for 5 minutes. If you drive for 60 you get paid for 60.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Beninmankato said:


> For about the tenth and the last time you are not getting paid a flat rate by the hour. You are getting paid for time not distance. Timer starts the second you accept a trip and stops the second you drop off. If you drive 5 minutes out of an hour you get paid for 5 minutes. If you drive for 60 you get paid for 60.


No, that's the current arrangement that drivers have with the pseudo independent contractor contracts. Getting paid by the job means that we are paid by the job, and the pay is quoted by the minute for each minute we are POB.

In contrast, employees get paid for every hour that they are on the company clock, whether or not the company chooses to give the employee work to do. Hourly pay employees are paid for each hour that they make themselves available to the company. This is why it's called hourly pay.

In all cases, however, employees must be paid at least the minimum per hour, which in SF is $15 per hour, regardless of whether the pay were per job or per hour available.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Beninmankato said:


> For about the tenth and the last time you are not getting paid a flat rate by the hour. You are getting paid for time not distance. Timer starts the second you accept a trip and stops the second you drop off. If you drive 5 minutes out of an hour you get paid for 5 minutes. If you drive for 60 you get paid for 60.


So what about the mileage? I own my car, paid $42k for it. I like it.

So you want Uber to supply the car?

Under what criteria would drivers be assigned what platform?

Just so you know, currently if I drive 5 minutes out of an hour I get paid for 5 minutes. If I drive 60 I get paid for 60. The only fluctuation is what is the speed I'm driving at. Faster I drive more I make an hour and vice versa.

How are you suggesting anything different? It sounds like you want to reinvent the wheel with the same exact wheel.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> No, that's the current arrangement that drivers have with the pseudo independent contractor contracts. Getting paid by the job means that we are paid by the job, and the pay is quoted by the minute for each minute we are POB.
> 
> In contrast, employees get paid for every hour that they are on the company clock, whether or not the company chooses to give the employee work to do. Hourly pay employees are paid for each hour that they make themselves available to the company. This is why it's called hourly pay.
> 
> In all cases, however, employees must be paid at least the minimum per hour, which in SF is $15 per hour, regardless of whether the pay were per job or per hour available.


Psuedo is right... Until we are allowed to set our own rates and are given the full parameters of the job we are not ICs.


----------



## RodB (Jun 17, 2019)

He is wanting it so that he can take his time and make as much as the drivers that are getting dizzy rushing all the pax around.


----------



## Clothahump (Mar 31, 2018)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


Screw the hourly rates. Raise our mileage a flat $0.20 a mile across the board, increase wait time rate to $0.20 a minute and start the clock at one minute after arrival instead of two. Those two things would help a lot, and we'd still be cheaper than a taxi.


----------



## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> For about the tenth and the last time you are not getting paid a flat rate by the hour. You are getting paid for time not distance. Timer starts the second you accept a trip and stops the second you drop off. If you drive 5 minutes out of an hour you get paid for 5 minutes. If you drive for 60 you get paid for 60.


As others have pointed out, the problem with your proposal is it doesn't take into consideration running costs. The higher your average speed, the higher your running costs are. That's just as much a penalty for certain types of jobs as the current payment structure is. The only truly fair pay structure (imho) is one where you're getting paid an adequate per minute rate from the moment you accept a trip until the moment it ends, plus a per km/mile rate that not only covers your running costs but also includes a reasonable profit margin. That's the only structure I can think of where the customer is paying the true costs of the service they are being provided with, and noone is subsidising anyone else.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

RodB said:


> He is wanting it so that he can take his time and make as much as the drivers that are getting dizzy rushing all the pax around.


That's a feature of unskilled, dead end job employment, though. The name of the game seems to be do as little as possible. Ever been to Home Depot and tried to get one of the assistants to show you where an item is?

- "Uh, go to aisle 34, or maybe 33, and it's down there somewhere on the left"
- "Can you take me there and show me?
- [Rolls eyes with pained expression as if has just been asked to donate a kidney]


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

UberDriverAU said:


> As others have pointed out, the problem with your proposal is it doesn't take into consideration running costs. The higher your average speed, the higher your running costs are. That's just as much a penalty for certain types of jobs as the current payment structure is. The only truly fair pay structure (imho) is one where you're getting paid an adequate per minute rate from the moment you accept a trip until the moment it ends, plus a per km/mile rate that not only covers your running costs but also includes a reasonable profit margin. That's the only structure I can think of where the customer is paying the true costs of the service they are being provided with, and noone is subsidising anyone else.


Highway miles uses more gas but are much easier on your parts than stop and go. The minute rate would have to be high enough to justify logging on. If they are paying me $30 consistently for an hours" worth of work I personally would probably go wherever they send me (with a few exceptions).


----------



## RodB (Jun 17, 2019)

But how much of a hurry would you be in to get there?


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

Beninmankato said:


> Highway miles uses more gas but are much easier on your parts than stop and go. The minute rate would have to be high enough to justify logging on. If they are paying me $30 consistently for an hours" worth of work I personally would probably go wherever they send me (with a few exceptions).


Ok OP. I'm going to bite. What is the per minute rate that you think would be adequate to cover it all?

My bad. You want 50 cents per minute. Okay, o drive an XL and I get 98 cents per mile and 20 cents per minute. At 60 mph I get $1.18 per minute. So that would be a no go for me unless they could guarantee me say 75 cents per minute on a specific schedule loses or not loaded to counteract fuel and maintenance costs. $30 an hour is crap if you have to deduct costs out of it.


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> Highway miles uses more gas but are much easier on your parts than stop and go. The minute rate would have to be high enough to justify logging on. If they are paying me $30 consistently for an hours" worth of work I personally would probably go wherever they send me (with a few exceptions).


The only vehicles that get better milage in urban (city driving) are hybrids. Traditional gas cars do MUCH BETTER gas mileage on highways. Please do some research before posting erroneous information.


----------



## BlueNOX (Apr 3, 2016)

No Prisoners said:


> The only vehicles that get better milage in urban (city driving) are hybrids. Traditional gas cars do MUCH BETTER gas mileage on highways. Please do some research before posting erroneous information.


Or if your in LA where it's 2 mph on the highway. Lol


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

BlueNOX said:


> Or if your in LA where it's 2 mph on the highway. Lol


That's stop and go hence yes you're burning more, which is the same principle as city driving. However, highway cruising speed is much more fuel efficient. Just look at your vehicle sticker for fuel mileage average.


----------



## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> Highway miles uses more gas but are much easier on your parts than stop and go. The minute rate would have to be high enough to justify logging on. If they are paying me $30 consistently for an hours" worth of work I personally would probably go wherever they send me (with a few exceptions).


Fuel isn't your only variable cost. Your car is just as close to it's next service, and depreciates just as much whether that next km/mile is on the highway or in the city. I doubt many (if any?) people keep track of the type of driving they do and adjust their servicing and depreciation schedules accordingly. It's not too hard to figure out an average rate that covers the costs of a km/mile driven, so the fact that there is variability in fuel consumption and wear and tear is a poor reason to neglect costs altogether. Surely the goal is to have less variability in what you _keep in your pocket_ for a given amount of time worked. Wouldn't a more reasonable goal be to have $X/hour *after* costs?


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


 I don't believe the biggest problem is Uber's pay rate. A better split of the pie is a good thing for sure. The biggest problem to me is just to many drivers. I work days and make good money up until about 9:30 or 10 am and then I can't buy a ride. I look on the riders app and I'm surrounded by 10 other drivers. That's just Uber. How many Lyft and taxis are around me? Only so much business out there. Yes, I'm one of the ants too.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> I don't believe the biggest problem is Uber's pay rate. A better split of the pie is a good thing for sure. The biggest problem to me is just to many drivers. I work days and make good money up until about 9:30 or 10 am and then I can't buy a ride. I look on the riders app and I'm surrounded by 10 other drivers. That's just Uber. How many Lyft and taxis are around me? Only so much business out there. Yes, I'm one of the ants too.


The split is atrocious at times and some areas are flooded with drivers. IMO the customer should pay for the ride from the time the driver accepts the ride. This would encourage drivers to accept all trips and allow Uber to move drivers around to wherever they are needed. I see it all the time, drivers concentrated in certain areas while the outskirts are not being sufficiently covered. That's why we sometimes receive such long distance requests, nobody is there and nobody is motivated to get there. It's ridiculous to ask drivers to drive 20 unpaid minutes to get a fare that is an unknown amount to begin with. Believe it or not there are people not getting rides even in major metro areas.


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

So the title of this thread is pay us by the hour. What Uber driver isn't paid by the hour?


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> So the title of this thread is pay us by the hour. What Uber driver isn't paid by the hour?


Read the thread. Your answers are probably there.



UberDriverAU said:


> Fuel isn't your only variable cost. Your car is just as close to it's next service, and depreciates just as much whether that next km/mile is on the highway or in the city. I doubt many (if any?) people keep track of the type of driving they do and adjust their servicing and depreciation schedules accordingly. It's not too hard to figure out an average rate that covers the costs of a km/mile driven, so the fact that there is variability in fuel consumption and wear and tear is a poor reason to neglect costs altogether. Surely the goal is to have less variability in what you _keep in your pocket_ for a given amount of time worked. Wouldn't a more reasonable goal be to have $X/hour *after* costs?


Nobody is neglecting costs, especially my repair shop.


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> Read the thread. Your answers are probably there.
> 
> 
> Nobody is neglecting costs, especially my repair shop.


Too many pages, again, what Uber driver isn't being paid by the hour? Is it other countries other than the US?


----------



## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

IMO any hourly would likely be $25 max, if that. Meaning drivers would lose out on long distance trips, and probably start cancelling them. IMO, the hourly rate would only work for drivers if it was the minimum payout. I.e, drivers either get hourly rate or miles/minutes, whichever comes out higher.


----------



## bulbous bob (Nov 14, 2016)

Too many Uber drivers living in cuckoo land, hourly rate? Never going to happen, never has, never will.
Do you really think Uber, or anyone else for that matter is going to pay you to sit on your ass and refuse jobs?
If it ever did happen, you would have to do whatever you were told, and work set hours, maybe even split shifts, just like a bus driver.....only with less pay and conditions. Not going to happen.


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

bulbous bob said:


> Too many Uber drivers living in cuckoo land, hourly rate? Never going to happen, never has, never will.


We are already paid by the hour. Are you referring to being paid while not on a trip by the hour?


----------



## UStaxman (Aug 14, 2016)

Keep in mind we are ‘Independent Contractors’ - Any ‘hourly rates’ pay would come with requirements to accept a certain percentage of trips (often require more ‘dead mileage’ increasing our expenses).
- Any ‘hourly rates’ pay would often require to work certain days & times 

- Remember the more ‘guarantees’ we have- the more ‘control’ Uber/Lyft would have which would also switch us to W2 ‘Employee’ with FICA, Federal Income Tax and State Income Tax taken out. 
Keep in mind Form 2106 within our Income taxes which allowed employees to deduct expenses are gone - we wouldn’t be able to deduct our vehicle expenses.

Work smart and you do not need so-called guarantees


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> The split is atrocious at times and some areas are flooded with drivers. IMO the customer should pay for the ride from the time the driver accepts the ride. This would encourage drivers to accept all trips and allow Uber to move drivers around to wherever they are needed. I see it all the time, drivers concentrated in certain areas while the outskirts are not being sufficiently covered. That's why we sometimes receive such long distance requests, nobody is there and nobody is motivated to get there. It's ridiculous to ask drivers to drive 20 unpaid minutes to get a fare that is an unknown amount to begin with. Believe it or not there are people not getting rides even in major metro areas.


I don't disagree with anything you're saying. What I am saying is hourly or split doesn't matter if you are just sitting in a parking lot. Here on Tampa Bay the rate for Uber X is .0884 for time and .6528 for distance. For a 60 minute, 60 mile ride that works out to $44.47 per hour. I used this example because the numbers aren't complicated.There is also a long pick up fee for 20 minute drives I didn't add in. After taking out for gas and other you would be left with about $35.00 for the hour. Not bad for unskilled labor. In most parts of the country hourly carpenters,plumbers and bricklayers don't make that per hour. I would love to have that ping but one of the other 10 drivers got it.
I also have to add that I do know how long the ride is before I take it. If you maintain a Platinum rating you get time ,distance and direction of ride before you accept. It is very helpful.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> I think enough had been said on the subject on this posting


It was enough so you had to make another thread about the exact same thing hoping people would magically realize your idea didn't suck?


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

"allow Uber to move drivers around to wherever they are needed"

Yes.
You need to move to Gary, Indiana


----------



## bulbous bob (Nov 14, 2016)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> After taking out for gas and other you would be left with about $35.00 for the hour. Not bad for unskilled labor. In most parts of the country hourly carpenters,plumbers and bricklayers don't make that per hour.


Are you having a laugh?


----------



## EngineerAtHeart (Nov 8, 2018)

Heck no! Comi$$ion baby


----------



## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

how is this a featured thread?
airports are getting double and triple congested and a featured thread is about a moot point...
throwing darts?


----------



## AlphaDriver LA (Jun 20, 2019)

mbd said:


> What if uber can just print more money..
> That should take care of all the problems.
> Uber has apparently bought into FB libra cryptocurrency program by paying $10 million for a Libra node, so they are contributing to the "printing" of Facebook Libra coin.


----------



## Crosbyandstarsky (Feb 4, 2018)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


You want an hourly wage go work for a company. You are self employed and don't get hourly wages but get the benefits of a subcontractor. You work when you want and choose which pickups to take.


----------



## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

At most you would drive, in 60 minutes is 75 miles (an hour on the interstate). So at IRS mileage expense rate of $0.58/mile that means you need 75*$0.58= $43.50 per hour to cover your max mileage.

Even if you only drive 20 miles in an hour, you need 20 * $0.58 =$12.94 an hour JUST TO COVER VEHICLE EXPENSES.

So if Uber says "We'll pay you flat rate $15/hr" you still would lose money, on average.

And yes, the IRS mileage rate includes gas, insurance, maintenance and depreciation.


----------



## Uber_Redbeard (Jun 20, 2019)

I don’t think anybody understands that if we demand to be paid an hourly wage, we’re going to get a decrease in earnings we get per trip. Especially when it comes to long trips. I am a driver in the northwest and I have to drive to a different city 140 miles away to make the money that I do, having said that, I am making the most money I’ve ever made in my entire life doing this. I am making more money now that I will when I’m completed with my masters degree. It’s not about whining for more money for the minimal amount of work that you do, it’s about doing the research and the grind and putting in the time to find the best places and best times to drive to make the most out of your time.


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


The real problem with this from the Uber point of view is that this kind of move to increase the amount going to drivers would reduce their marginal profit. It would be tough to justify to the shareholders, particularly in a publicly owned company.

Of course, Uber could raise fares to pay for this increase compensation, but the problem with that is this would decrease the number of riders using the Uber app. Since there is competition from Lyft and other transportation providers, this is a real problem. Any significant increase in fares could cost them a lot in market share. If I am Joe Pax at the airport, there is no preference as to whether a Lyft or an Uber picks me up. I am going to be inclined to go with the least expensive.


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Uber_Redbeard said:


> I don't think anybody understands that if we demand to be paid an hourly wage, we're going to get a decrease in earnings we get per trip. Especially when it comes to long trips. I am a driver in the northwest and I have to drive to a different city 140 miles away to make the money that I do, having said that, I am making the most money I've ever made in my entire life doing this. I am making more money now that I will when I'm completed with my masters degree. It's not about whining for more money for the minimal amount of work that you do, it's about doing the research and the grind and putting in the time to find the best places and best times to drive to make the most out of your time.


Interesting how new members rush into the forum to argue against hourly wages and claim great compensation under current rates. Anyone who believes this is a paid uber troll or total idiot.
I'm against hourly wages as long as uber pays minimum $1.58 pmile and 40 cents pMinute. 
Give drivers ability to organize and create their own associations without any input from the company. 
Full transparency to drivers and riders with ride receipts showing pMinute, pmile, amount paid to driver and kept by Uber. This is necessary to eliminate the current price gouging scheme uber implementing on riders on back of drivers.
Anything else justify full force AB5.
Uber caused this problem on itself by exploiting drivers. 
No longer a matter of if but when chicken come home to roost. It's inevitable and Dara knows it.


----------



## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

If I was as busy here as in Denver, my gross hourly would be about $50. 

I arrive at that number by applying the % difference in mileage rates to my Denver earnings and then dividing by hours.


----------



## MissAnne (Aug 9, 2017)

If they were to pay us based on the federal minimum wage, it would kill me. Here in Utah that wage is $8.55 an hour. On a decent day I make between $15 and $20 per hour and on a very good day I can average between $25 and $30 an hour so ....paying a hourly wage would absolutely suck


----------



## MegaTruong (Feb 12, 2019)

Uber got to much hiring power and the state u live in doesn't care how many drivers are out and truing to make a living. To be a private contractor is to have you'r own eqiupment, to be an employee, all equipment has to come form the employer. Hourly wages means u will get a schedule. Depends what u want. They real problem is uber has unlimited hiring power and pricing power, which it uses to destroy the taxi industry of every city. It's not about minimum wages, it's about how much power these app companies have to monopolize to eliminate it's compettition.


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Uber_Redbeard said:


> I am making more money now that I will when I'm completed with my masters degree.


What subject is your Master's from?


----------



## Alfacino (Feb 7, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


You are confusing this for a fulltime job. This is a side hustle. You can not depend on this gig forever as eventually cars will drive themselves. I suggest if your looking for an hourly wage then you are more suited for traditional jobs. If you are a hustler then you will be doing multiple things including uber. Full time uber driving is not very smart.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

I_Like_Spam said:


> The real problem with this from the Uber point of view is that this kind of move to increase the amount going to drivers would reduce their marginal profit. It would be tough to justify to the shareholders, particularly in a publicly owned company.
> 
> Of course, Uber could raise fares to pay for this increase compensation, but the problem with that is this would decrease the number of riders using the Uber app. Since there is competition from Lyft and other transportation providers, this is a real problem. Any significant increase in fares could cost them a lot in market share. If I am Joe Pax at the airport, there is no preference as to whether a Lyft or an Uber picks me up. I am going to be inclined to go with the least expensive.


I never mentioned any numbers except to say that rates would vary by region as they do now. That equation would have to be ironed out by Uber lyft and drivers.



Alfacino said:


> You are confusing this for a fulltime job. This is a side hustle. You can not depend on this gig forever as eventually cars will drive themselves. I suggest if your looking for an hourly wage then you are more suited for traditional jobs. If you are a hustler then you will be doing multiple things including uber. Full time uber driving is not very smart.


Actually you are confused on the entire posting. I work several gigs, including one that requires a CDL.



MegaTruong said:


> Uber got to much hiring power and the state u live in doesn't care how many drivers are out and truing to make a living. To be a private contractor is to have you'r own eqiupment, to be an employee, all equipment has to come form the employer. Hourly wages means u will get a schedule. Depends what u want. They real problem is uber has unlimited hiring power and pricing power, which it uses to destroy the taxi industry of every city. It's not about minimum wages, it's about how much power these app companies have to monopolize to eliminate it's compettition.


Not hourly wage, pay by the minute not the mile



Ssgcraig said:


> So the title of this thread is pay us by the hour. What Uber driver isn't paid by the hour?


We are paid by the mile and the minute in the USA. .


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

No


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

Long trips would mean less time waiting for the next ride and would be good in this system unless you are taken away from a service area.



dauction said:


> No


Don't strain yourself with thought.


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> We are paid by the mile and the minute in the USA. .


Right, so what Uber driver is the US is not being paid by the hour? I get $16.80. Is it because people can do math?


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> Right, so what Uber driver is the US is not being paid by the hour? I get $16.80. Is it because people can do math?


You're too lazy to read but not too lazy to post. It's an epidemic on here.


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> You're too lazy to read but not too lazy to post. It's an epidemic on here.


Ahh, I am not lazy, the OP asks a question that I think is ridiculous. Uber drivers do get paid by the hour. Stop the stupidity and enabling.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> Ahh, I am not lazy, the OP asks a question that I think is ridiculous. Uber drivers do get paid by the hour. Stop the stupidity and enabling.


I am the OP. Hahaha.


----------



## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> I am the OP. Hahaha.


Wow, so now you have a clear understanding that you are being paid by the hour. My bad if there have been others that informed you of the same thing, too many pages to go through. Call me lazy, but I don't have time to read through 7 pages.


----------



## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Drivers are paid by the hour, in minute increments, if they are active.

No company is going to pay you to sit around and wait.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> Such endless silliness.
> 
> I defy you to find any similar task that pays by the hour. The same agitators who constantly cry for hourly pay are the very folks who insist we're just taxis --- try to find a cabbies who punches the clock.
> 
> ...


These are my kind of hourly pay


----------



## BeansnRice (Aug 13, 2016)

Beninmankato said:


> What would be your number?


Here's my number:

Pax pays $20 - I get $15 net.
Pax pays $50 - I get $37.50 NET

Basically let's do a clean 75/25 for every ride plus a decent minimum like $7-10 min to driver for every ride.

This is what it was , sorta kinda, when I was first hired.

It's what I expected at least.

Hourly anything is gonna be terrible.



steveK2016 said:


> These are my kind of hourly pay


Unfortunately you are only the captain when you're OFF APP.

U/L owns your time and and your car while the app is on.


----------



## RodB (Jun 17, 2019)

Pay by the minute from the time you get a ping until you drop off is pay by the hour.

I think this thread and the other that is the exact same have gone far enough..
Op never answers questions that we ask.


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Any way to put this thread in ignore status. 2 of the same by same OP. PLEASE MONITORS merge both threads.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

BeansnRice said:


> Here's my number:
> 
> Pax pays $20 - I get $15 net.
> Pax pays $50 - I get $37.50 NET
> ...


Not bad ideas but I never said anything about paying somebody to sit around and wait.


----------



## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Beninmankato said:


> Not bad ideas but I never said anything about paying somebody to sit around and wait.


Your intent is good, your idea is not


----------



## dougsta (Mar 17, 2019)

Beninmankato said:


> If the rate is "fair" not sure why any driver would "suffer" .......


@oldboy was joking, think u missed the point slightly. There are some ants that dont deserve more benefits, such as the ones who call pax and ask, "where are you going"


----------



## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


Oh... so. you mean how they propose to reduce our fares by 30%-50% but sell it to us that they are hearing our gripes about not respecting our time? Drivers like you. . . Are you a driver like me?


----------



## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> Nobody is neglecting costs, especially my repair shop.


Actually, you are. Your proposed payment structure ignores costs. That means what you get to keep in your pocket varies depending on the types of trips that are completed. A payment structure that's more reflective of how costs are accrued reduces that variability considerably.


----------



## Beninmankato (Apr 26, 2017)

K-pax said:


> Oh... so. you mean how they propose to reduce our fares by 30%-50% but sell it to us that they are hearing our gripes about not respecting our time? Drivers like you. . . Are you a driver like me?


What?



UberDriverAU said:


> Actually, you are. Your proposed payment structure ignores costs. That means what you get to keep in your pocket varies depending on the types of trips that are completed. A payment structure that's more reflective of how costs are accrued reduces that variability considerably.


Is there discrepancy now? My proposal would even it out.


UberDriverAU said:


> Actually, you are. Your proposed payment structure ignores costs. That means what you get to keep in your pocket varies depending on the types of trips that are completed. A payment structure that's more reflective of how costs are accrued reduces that variability considerably.


My system would lead to more uniform profits then the current system.


----------



## RodB (Jun 17, 2019)

We don't want uniform profits. We want those who WORD FOR IT to profit more than those that don't. 
It is that simple ?


----------



## RodB (Jun 17, 2019)

Stupid autocorrect..work for it...


----------



## Eugene73 (Jun 29, 2017)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


Everyone gets paid the same sounds like communism. You wanna make bank you're gonna have to learn the side hustle or better yet goto work at macdonalds if you want hourly slave wage


----------



## phoneguy (Apr 15, 2015)

I live near Pittsburgh so I am going to use the rates for that area. So I am going to use the 75% driver take home per ride. We do get an hourly rate, the per minute charge of $0.24 or $14.40 / hour (when the passenger is in the car), we then get on top of that the Mileage. So when I gas up, I always reset my trip counter and it give me an average miles per hour per tank, so I have 25 mph, so you take the 25 times the $0.6525 per mile rate, you get $39.15 / hour. I know you don't get that much per hour since you have all the time between passengers getting into the car, but for me, I average about $27/hour before expenses, and my take home once you take out the car expenses, is still about $15.50 to $16 per hour and I even included personal driving so I get a car completely paid for by my uber/lyft driving. 

Here is why everyone complains about driving, they don't use their head when it comes to when and where. Pittsburgh for example, there are currently 51 to 55 drivers setting at the airport (usually much higher in the 80 and 90s, 9:30 am on a tuesday) and according to Lyft, it is a 35 to 78 minute wait for a passenger, and the best you can hope for is a ride to downtown for $25. So you waited 55 minutes (average) and then have a 35 minute drive for a total of $25 take home, that is killing your average.

The other problem is the cars people drive to do uber, I drive a Prius, my son also does uber and he drives a hybrid ford Cmax. We have over 40 miles to the gallon. I see people in down town driving minivans with only on passenger, you don't get a lot of uber xl, you get mostly uberx, but your gas mileage is half or lower, and I kid you not, there are 3 people I have seen, driving uber in trucks, (dodge ram extended cab) or even Jeep Wranglers. The Miles per gallon, and cost of the vehicle, and so one is just eating up all the money. I drove a Hyundai Sonota and by switching to the Prius, I was able to save enough money in gas per month to make the car payment and have an extra $100. 
So use your head and start looking at the big picture, realize, you don't work for uber, you drive for yourself and you control how much you make and how much your expenses are. Make wise choices, plan ahead. You are a business now, you have to plan for the future or you will FAIL.


----------



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Eugene73 said:


> Everyone gets paid the same sounds like communism. You wanna make bank you're gonna have to learn the side hustle or better yet goto work at macdonalds if you want hourly slave wage


Glad you mentioned communism where the tyrants dictate to subjugated society (the proletariat or partners as uber calls drivers) all terms without allowing for dissent. 
Uber sets rates while drivers must accept or be deactivated by restricting access to the platform. Uber saturates markets with drivers making individuals expendable. 
Drivers can not negotiate any terms of services, all dictated at will by the ruler. 
Just as in communist systems uber holds all control and executes by deactivation dissenting drivers without recourse. 
Who's the communist here?


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Beninmankato said:


> For about the tenth and the last time you are not getting paid a flat rate by the hour. You are getting paid for time not distance. Timer starts the second you accept a trip and stops the second you drop off. If you drive 5 minutes out of an hour you get paid for 5 minutes. If you drive for 60 you get paid for 60.


I'm getting per mile and per minute. You're not?


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

The fantasy that I see in this thread is that somehow, some way, people are expecting to get more money for unskilled work.

You want more money? Get a real job.


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> The fantasy that I see in this thread is that somehow, some way, people are expecting to get more money for unskilled work.
> 
> You want more money? Get a real job.


Picking up people and taking them to their destination safely and efficiently is a real job. People were making more money doing this until Rideshare entered the game. Don't blame the workers for the bad environment that greedy monopolistic companies impose on them through their shady dealings with the government.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

AvisDeene said:


> Don't blame the workers for the bad environment that greedy monopolistic companies impose on them through their shady dealings with the government.


If you don't like the deal, find a job that you like better.


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> If you don't like the deal, find a job that you like better.


Or I could lobby for a better deal like Uber and Lyft lobby to skirt regulations.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

AvisDeene said:


> Or I could lobby for a better deal like Uber and Lyft lobby to skirt regulations.


Good luck with that. Let me know how that works out for you.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> The fantasy that I see in this thread is that somehow, some way, people are expecting to get more money for unskilled work.
> 
> You want more money? Get a real job.


How much are YOU making doing this "unskilled" work?

Whatever it is, it's probably too much.

Let's see you lead by example and demand that uber and lyft slash your pay to the rock bottom levels that such lowly unskilled work deserves.


----------



## ProudPappy (Jul 1, 2019)

No Prisoners said:


> Glad you mentioned communism where the tyrants dictate to subjugated society (the proletariat or partners as uber calls drivers) all terms without allowing for dissent.
> Uber sets rates while drivers must accept or be deactivated by restricting access to the platform. Uber saturates markets with drivers making individuals expendable.
> Drivers can not negotiate any terms of services, all dictated at will by the ruler.
> Just as in communist systems uber holds all control and executes by deactivation dissenting drivers without recourse.
> Who's the communist here?


While what you stated is true, the freedom and flexibility that working for drive companies makes up for that. Just think, it could be all that you stated, AND you have to work specific shifts (get paid by the hour would / could take this job to that place).



Nats121 said:


> How much are YOU making doing this "unskilled" work?
> 
> Whatever is is, it's probably too much.
> 
> Let's see you lead by example and demand that uber and lyft slash your pay to the rock bottom levels that such lowly unskilled work deserves.


Their really not paying for unskilled labor, well, maybe minutely, what they are really doing is compensating you for your car.



No Prisoners said:


> Glad you mentioned communism where the tyrants dictate to subjugated society (the proletariat or partners as uber calls drivers) all terms without allowing for dissent.
> Uber sets rates while drivers must accept or be deactivated by restricting access to the platform. Uber saturates markets with drivers making individuals expendable.
> Drivers can not negotiate any terms of services, all dictated at will by the ruler.
> Just as in communist systems uber holds all control and executes by deactivation dissenting drivers without recourse.
> Who's the communist here?


https://www.vox.com/2019/6/18/18682002/uber-lyft-drivers-california-ab5-bill
"In the Chronicle op-ed published last week, Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi and Lyft co-founders Logan Green and John Zimmer suggested that drivers would no longer have the flexibility to make their own schedules if they become employees."​


----------



## Loralie (Sep 22, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> An hourly wage takes all the excitement of driving. Additionally, operating a big transportation company is no longer profitable these days, so adding to the overhead by paying by the hour will just hasten the company's demise.
> 
> Uber is losing money, this is now public information as Uber went public. I've driven for several large cab companies, they all went belly up ( and survived only as cooperatives ). Uber's only hope, if most of their eggs are in the rideshare basket, is to raise rates closer to what taxis are charging. Otherwise, Uber is doomed. If they are reading this, heed this advice (many years in the biz ).


Exactly. Also limits us even more and gives us less opportunity to make more as well. All the drivers that made this their full time jobs are the ones complaining about getting an hourly pay like an employee. The ones that understand we are independent contractors know we don't have to accept every single ride that comes our way. We have the right to reject and many rides as we choose and we won't be deactivated for not accepting rides. The only way to maximize profits with such a low rate and time is to only accept primetime rides and rides with bonuses and incentives, etc. Now that they took away primetime/surge and replaced it with a small bonus gives us mostly base rate rides. Drivers that don't understand this are ruining it for the ones that prefer to work independently on both apps and pick the the more profitable rides instead of accepting any ping and going any distance on base rates. If the ones that want to work full time with base rates then why even do this job to begin with. Everyone knows it's not profitable with base rates and its not a winning strategy. If they want an hourly pay and to be compensated as an employee then why don't they just get another job to that, why even go into this business to begin with.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Loralie said:


> Exactly. Also limits us even more and gives us less opportunity to make more as well. All the drivers that made this their full time jobs are the ones complaining about getting an hourly pay like an employee. The ones that understand we are independent contractors know we don't have to accept every single ride that comes our way. We have the right to reject and many rides as we choose and we won't be deactivated for not accepting rides. The only way to maximize profits with such a low rate and time is to only accept primetime rides and rides with bonuses and incentives, etc. Now that they took away primetime/surge and replaced it with a small bonus gives us mostly base rate rides. Drivers that don't understand this are ruining it for the ones that prefer to work independently on both apps and pick the the more profitable rides instead of accepting any ping and going any distance on base rates. If the ones that want to work full time with base rates then why even do this job to begin with. Everyone knows it's not profitable with base rates and its not a winning strategy. If they want an hourly pay and to be compensated as an employee then why don't they just get another job to that, why even go into this business to begin with.


Hourly wage will destroy the biz, there is no way this is going to happen. For one thing, they will be required to pay worker's compensation, and that, alone, would force uber to shut it's doors. I've got my beefs with Uber, but I don't want them to go under, either. I'm planning on getting a limo license so I can keep the service fee, which would increase my earnings by $150 - $200 per week, which would pay for the vehicle. That's a rough estiment, the license will help. ( If Uber is still doing this, I have to check on this ).


----------



## 49matrix (Feb 3, 2015)

Beninmankato said:


> I believe if we would get paid an hourly based rate from the time we accepted a request until the passenger is dropped off it could help the entire rideshare system. Raised wages with high demand should still be in effect.


Are you saying that you want to become an Uber employee? When you start talking about "wages" and "hourly rates" you cease to become an Independent Contractor and would be an employee. What I think you are trying to say that U/L should pay a flat rate based on pick up and drop off times. All well and good, but I don't think you'd like the flat rate U/L may have in mind!


----------

