# Hold the phone. Did Uber CEO just state that the appropriate take is 20%. Question mark!



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Video published July 31st 2022. Uber's take in 2021 was 30% for me, and I have grandfathered rates!









Uber CEO Admits Big Mistake He Made With Drivers - Interview with Uber's CEO


How often do rideshare drivers get to interview the CEO of Uber? In Harry’s case, three times (so far!) Below, Senior RSG contributor Sergio Avedian shares his opinion of Uber...




therideshareguy.com





Direct link:


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Dara also makes the case in this video that insurance rates are up. Incidences are down, but cost per incidence is up.

Now, he also tries to justify a variable take rate, depending on the trip.

*So why not a variable insurance rate, depending on the driver?*


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

_Tron_ said:


> So why not a variable insurance rate, depending on the driver?


We already have that.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Heisenburger said:


> We already have that.


So you have it that offers to drivers vary according to the individual driver's accident rate?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

_Tron_ said:


> So you have it that offers to drives vary according to the individual driver's accident rate?


Yes.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Meh. Just more bullshit from Dara and his little lap dog Harry.

"It benefits drivers when we take more".


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

I don't see why Uber doesn't self-insure.

Uber is already paying for all of the settlements that are paid out to drivers who crash their cars, to people whose vehicles are crashed into, and to people who are injured by drivers in the insurance premiums. It's not as if the insurance companies are taking a loss on Uber's coverage and are financing the payouts out of their own pockets. What Uber is doing is paying the premiums plus contributing to the profits of the insurance companies.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

elelegido said:


> I don't see why Uber doesn't self-insure.
> 
> Uber is already paying for all of the settlements that are paid out to drivers who crash their cars, to people whose vehicles are crashed into, and to people who are injured by drivers in the insurance premiums. It's not as if the insurance companies are taking a loss on Uber's coverage and are financing the payouts out of their own pockets. What Uber is doing is paying the premiums plus contributing to the profits of the insurance companies.


Probably for legal reasons intended to protect the insurance companies they cannot in most states.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

elelegido said:


> I don't see why Uber doesn't self-insure.
> 
> Uber is already paying for all of the settlements that are paid out to drivers who crash their cars, to people whose vehicles are crashed into, and to people who are injured by drivers in the insurance premiums. It's not as if the insurance companies are taking a loss on Uber's coverage and are financing the payouts out of their own pockets. What Uber is doing is paying the premiums plus contributing to the profits of the insurance companies.


You really want Rohit handling your insurance claim? 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

New2This said:


> You really want Rohit handling your insurance claim? 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️


Look at it this way, an insurance company gets about $500 per month per taxi vehicle and they can do about 100 x 30 = 3000 trips per month or $17 per trip.

In Uber the insurance companies are getting up to $10 per trip for both commercial and regular coverage.

I don't see where I was going with this, but it sounded good when I started. 🤔


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## Classified (Feb 8, 2018)

Interesting utube video, im on 20% but Uber does not offer us insurance, it’s the drivers responsibility to do, guess I’m lucky In my country


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## 180dayofchange (Nov 2, 2018)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Look at it this way, an insurance company gets about $500 per month per taxi vehicle and they can do about 100 x 30 = 3000 trips per month or $17 per trip.
> 
> In Uber the insurance companies are getting up to $10 per trip for both commercial and regular coverage.
> 
> I don't see where I was going with this, but it sounded good when I started. 🤔


100*30?
3000? how do you get the $17/ trip 
$17 / trip would be 30 trips/month If 500 the monthly insurance. 
help me please I don't get your numbers


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

elelegido said:


> I don't see why Uber doesn't self-insure.
> 
> Uber is already paying for all of the settlements that are paid out to drivers who crash their cars, to people whose vehicles are crashed into, and to people who are injured by drivers in the insurance premiums. It's not as if the insurance companies are taking a loss on Uber's coverage and are financing the payouts out of their own pockets. What Uber is doing is paying the premiums plus contributing to the profits of the insurance companies.





Trafficat said:


> Probably for legal reasons intended to protect the insurance companies they cannot in most states.





New2This said:


> You really want Rohit handling your insurance claim? 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️





ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Look at it this way, an insurance company gets about $500 per month per taxi vehicle and they can do about 100 x 30 = 3000 trips per month or $17 per trip.
> 
> In Uber the insurance companies are getting up to $10 per trip for both commercial and regular coverage.
> 
> I don't see where I was going with this, but it sounded good when I started. 🤔


Uber could easily self insure to a certain dollar amount, then carry a large policy for claims above that. Many large trucking fleets do this, some are self insured to $10 million or so, then carry huge umbrella policies for claim above that.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

elelegido said:


> Meh. Just more bullshit from Dara and his little lap dog Harry.
> 
> "It benefits drivers when we take more".


Harry really is nothing but a shill for these companies


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

180dayofchange said:


> help me please I don't get your numbers


Neither does he.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> per taxi vehicle and they can do about 100 x 30 = 3000 trips per month


Never go full...


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Heisenburger said:


> Neither does he.


Yes. I think what we've seen here is that when one pulls numbers out of one's ass, they might _not _be correct.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Frontier Guy said:


> Harry really is nothing but a shill for these companies


You don't see it but Dara's hand's up Harry's ass making his lips move.


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## Mad_Jack_Flint (Nov 19, 2020)

New2This said:


> You really want Rohit handling your insurance claim? 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️


Now that would be so much fun!


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Who's is worst Dara or harry


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Look at it this way, an insurance company gets about $500 per month per taxi vehicle and they can do about 100 x 30 = 3000 trips per month or $17 per trip.
> 
> In Uber the insurance companies are getting up to $10 per trip for both commercial and regular coverage.
> 
> I don't see where I was going with this, but it sounded good when I started. 🤔


I got ya...


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Oh god thank you! I feel so much better about _my_ rig now. Don't feel like I've overdone it at all!


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

180dayofchange said:


> 100*30?
> 3000? how do you get the $17/ trip
> $17 / trip would be 30 trips/month If 500 the monthly insurance.
> help me please I don't get your numbers


3000 rides a month is a lot.... I know it's not possible in _my market_. Hitting 1,000 rides a month isn't possible here.

$500 a month is $17 per day. (16. something rounding up to $17) Which is interesting because my average taxi fare is also $17.00

If I got $2.00 extra per ride to get commercial insurance i'd pay off the insurance in 250 rides a month, which is 8.06 rides per day per 31 days. 

Or more realalstically with taking days off...

250 rides divided by 20 days worked it would be 12.5 rides a day.

So reality is $2.50 a ride would be more than enough to subsidize getting proper commercial insurance.


The problem is that an extra $2.50 a ride in my market still wouldn't put pay at high enough to justify me turning on my engine. Let alone paying for commerical insurance to do uber/lyft.


If Dhara does something stupid with insurance he's going to bring uber down completely. if he raises uber's commission by cutting pay he's also begging for problems.

I'm really hoping Dhara and uber pull something. I really do Because i'm going to laugh so hard if he destroys the company thining he can squeeze drivers a lot harder.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

bobby747 said:


> Who's is worst Dara or harry


Oh that's ez. Harry actually does provide useful info from time to time. And clearly the only way Dara is going to consent to such an interview is if it's with someone throwing softballs. So Harry has his uses. Just like any useful idiot.

I can't help picturing Dara tied to a chair and some big rideshare drivers like @Seamus, and John the Bear, and maybe Rakos just beating him to a pulp until the truth starts coming out. Remember that movie with Jerry Lewis where he was kidnapped and tortured? Kina like that.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

_Tron_ said:


> I can't help picturing Dara tied to a chair and some big rideshare drivers like @Seamus, and John the Bear, and maybe Rakos just beating him to a pulp until the truth finally sinks in. Remember that movie with Jerry Lewis where he was kidnapped and tortured? Kina like that


I'm in. 🙋‍

I can help with clean-up. I have my Dara kit in the trunk.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

We would never be short on volunteers


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Look at it this way, an insurance company gets about $500 per month per taxi vehicle and they can do about 100 x 30 = 3000 trips per month or $17 per trip.


3000 trips divided by 500 dollars is 6 dollars not 17


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Never go full...


Saw you posted this before... what's the reference?


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> Oh god thank you! I feel so much better about _my_ rig now. Don't feel like I've overdone it at all!
> 
> View attachment 670525


Nice setup... but why the redundant lyft apps? I would have Uber and Lyft on the phones as you do and then the tablet i'd switch between a redundant copy of the uber app that is offline (to see surge while on trips) and the uber passenger app (to see where the other cars are)


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Ted Fink said:


> Saw you posted this before... what's the reference?


Tropic Thunder (2008)


> Kirk Lazarus : Everybody knows you never go full ******.
> 
> Tugg Speedman : What do you mean?
> 
> Kirk Lazarus : Check it out. Dustin Hoffman, 'Rain Man,' look ******ed, act ******ed, not ******ed. Counted toothpicks, cheated cards. Autistic, sho'. Not ******ed. You know Tom Hanks, 'Forrest Gump.' Slow, yes. ******ed, maybe. Braces on his legs. But he charmed the pants off Nixon and he won a ping-pong competition. That ain't ******ed. He was a goddamn war hero. You know any ******ed war heroes? You went full ******, man. Never go full ******. You don't buy that? Ask Sean Penn, 2001, "I Am Sam." Remember? Went full ******, went home empty-handed.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

Dara clearly gave Harry the questions to ask him.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Ted Fink said:


> Nice setup... but why the redundant lyft apps? I would have Uber and Lyft on the phones as you do and then the tablet i'd switch between a redundant copy of the uber app that is offline (to see surge while on trips) and the uber passenger app (to see where the other cars are)


The one advantage of the Lyft app is that you can run one instance of the app with the just the main screen showing the pick up or drop off address... and another instance on a separate device that can be in navigation mode. Naturally I run navigation on the tablet.

I only wish you could do the same with the Uber app.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> Oh that's ez. Harry actually does provide useful info from time to time. And clearly the only way Dara is going to consent to such an interview is if it's with someone throwing softballs. So Harry has his uses. Just like any useful idiot.
> 
> I can't help picturing Dara tied to a chair and some big rideshare drivers like @Seamus, and John the Bear, and maybe Rakos just beating him to a pulp until the truth starts coming out. Remember that movie with Jerry Lewis where he was kidnapped and tortured? Kina like that.


I’m picturing the boss from Christmas Vacation that Eddy brought home for Clark. I like your version better, minus the physical torture. But I think he deserves a good pummeling by Rakos or Jon the Bear. And the torture could be him having to listen to Ozzy all night go on about his powers or him having to watch one of Ian’s cringeworthy videos all night long.


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## Hih1 (9 mo ago)

The disturbing take away for me is Dara said he's fine with where driver earnings are. So, unless you've found your money making niche, you're on a sinking ship, and things won't get better.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

_Tron_ said:


> Don't feel like I've overdone it at all!


Scotch tape? Why?


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Heisenburger said:


> Scotch tape? Why?


Oh, you mean the trade dress? It's not for sticking them to the window, which is what it may look like in the photo due to reflection. It's holding them to the dash. I keep a very low profile on branding. It makes it easy to take the trade dress down when I'm not Ubering or Lyfting. They come off if the car visits the dealer, for example.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

_Tron_ said:


> It's holding them to the dash.


Ah, okay.



_Tron_ said:


> They come off if the car visits the dealer, for example.


Are you wealthy? I haven't used any dealership services since 2007. Their mediocre quality doesn't justify their obscene prices.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> Oh that's ez. Harry actually does provide useful info from time to time. And clearly the only way Dara is going to consent to such an interview is if it's with someone throwing softballs. So Harry has his uses. Just like any useful idiot.
> 
> I can't help picturing Dara tied to a chair and some big rideshare drivers like @Seamus, and John the Bear, and maybe Rakos just beating him to a pulp until the truth starts coming out. Remember that movie with Jerry Lewis where he was kidnapped and tortured? Kina like that.


Don't forget Doordash CEO Tony Xu. He's probably even more deserving of a serious beating than Dara.


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## Hugh G. (5 mo ago)

Pfffffttt.......


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## Hugh G. (5 mo ago)

Unbelievable


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Typical piece of shit marshmallow "interview" by Campbell. I had to really struggle to watch the whole interview. Somehow I was able to.

He prefaces the interview with glowing praise for Uber for it's POS Upfront Fares/Radar scam by saying it's a "dream come true" for drivers...before he acknowledged the existence of AR strings being attached to it. Attaching any strings to trip info renders it as useful as mammaries on a bull, especially when it's something half-assed like UF.

Harry was probably at his worst when he sheepishly said that Dara's lying excuse for AR strings being attached to Upfront Fares "made sense". Wimpy Harry further embarrassed himself when he expressed his "hope" that maybe someday Uber will start to remove the strings.

Dara was at his sleaziest when he "finessed" his way out of answering Harry's question about Uber's take rate. Harry of course made sure he didn't come even remotely close to pressing Dara to give an honest answer.

Harry absolutely walked on eggshells but that didn't stop Dara from getting just a little bit defensive a couple of times. Just imagine how defensive he'd be if he had to face REAL interviewers such as Ted Koppel and Chris Wallace who wouldn't allow him to get away with giving bullshit answers. Obviously Dara would NEVER allow himself to be interviewed by people like that.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> The one advantage of the Lyft app is that you can run one instance of the app with the just the main screen showing the pick up or drop off address... and another instance on a separate device that can be in navigation mode. Naturally I run navigation on the tablet.
> 
> I only wish you could do the same with the Uber app.


See I prefer to run a second copy of the Uber app, because it stays offline and you can see the surge map while on a trip with the active phone. I'm using 2 phones though (#KevinGates) not a phone and a tablet. Thinking about getting a tablet.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

_Tron_ said:


> I can't help picturing Dara tied to a chair and some big rideshare drivers like @Seamus, and John the Bear, and maybe Rakos just beating him to a pulp until the truth starts coming out. Remember that movie with Jerry Lewis where he was kidnapped and tortured? Kina like that.


I'm thinking more like this


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Typical piece of shit marshmallow "interview" by Campbell. I had to really struggle to watch the whole interview. Somehow I was able to.
> 
> He prefaces the interview with glowing praise for Uber for it's POS Upfront Fares/Radar scam by saying it's a "dream come true" for drivers...before he acknowledged the existence of AR strings being attached to it. Attaching any strings to trip info renders it as useful as mammaries on a bull, especially when it's something half-assed like UF.
> 
> ...


And yet even when fielding softballs Dara still came off as a BALD FACE LIAR. 20% take is farcical, and transparency is down not up under the new pricing scheme. The man is insulting us right to our faces. Clearly he is convinced the average driver has an inferior intelligence quotient.

His face tells it all. If you were casting a movie, would Dara be cast as the good guy or the bad guy? (rhetorical)


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Heisenburger said:


> Ah, okay.
> 
> Are you wealthy? I haven't used any dealership services since 2007. Their mediocre quality doesn't justify their obscene prices.


Lol. I hate dealerships. But when you're under warranty...


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

_Tron_ said:


> But when you're under warranty...


I hear ya, but in the unlikely event that you're unaware:



> Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is *prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless the item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty* or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer. Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## #1husler (Aug 22, 2017)

New2This said:


> You really want Rohit handling your insurance claim?


Well, he's super polite, cares so much about how my day's going...assures me that my matter is the right hands (his hands) and he will competently resolve them all ASAP so...why not?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> And yet even when fielding softballs Dara still came off as a BALD FACE LIAR. 20% take is farcical, and transparency is down not up under the new pricing scheme. The man is insulting us right to our faces. Clearly he is convinced the average driver has an inferior intelligence quotient.
> 
> His face tells it all. If you were casting a movie, would Dara be cast as the good guy or the bad guy? (rhetorical)


Focusing on Uber's overall take rate plays into Dara's hands because Uber is the DECIDER of what "take rate" means. 

Uber moves numbers all over the place in such a way that makes the take rate appear small. 

Remember his "variable take rate" comment? THAT'S where the focus should be. Read between the lines and he's saying that Uber reserves the right to rob drivers on individual rides.

My point has always been that Uber is NEVER EVER entitled to take more than 25% of any given ride, period. 

It's never OK for Uber to grab a big cut, not even "once in a while".

It is OK to steal "once in a while"? Is it OK to commit a felony "once in a while"?

I'd love to see Ted Koppel or Chris Wallace show Dara some driver invoices with big cuts and challenge him to try to justify robbing the driver on that particular trip. He'd shit his pants if he had to face that question from a Koppel or a Wallace because they wouldn't let him get away with lying.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Focusing on Uber's overall take rate plays into Dara's hands because Uber is the DECIDER of what "take rate" means.
> 
> Uber moves numbers all over the place in such a way that makes the take rate appear small.


No different than casino games win rates and payouts.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> I'd love to see Ted Koppel or Chris Wallace show Dara some driver invoices with big cuts and challenge him to try to justify robbing the driver on that particular trip. He'd shit his pants if he had to face that question from a Koppel or a Wallace because they wouldn't let him get away with lying.


Or as a prepared CEO he would point out that there are many rides in which Uber pays the driver MORE than the passenger is charged and have examples. He would also explain that the driver may have also had quests or bonuses attached to that ride that aren’t on the receipt. Then he would provide examples of Eats orders that did the same. The intern who gave Koepel such easy questions to debunk would probably be fired and Uber’s stock would go up.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> Uber moves numbers all over the place in such a way that makes the take rate appear small.


As opposed to drivers who fail to mention incentives or the times when they get paid a surge and the pax didn’t pay one in order to say Uber takes 50%? C’mon man, and least think about some of this absolute garbage before you litter it all over the site.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Livekilometers96 said:


> As opposed to drivers who fail to mention incentives or the times when they get paid a surge and the pax didn’t pay one in order to say Uber takes 50%?


QFT


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> Or as a prepared CEO he would point out that there are many rides in which Uber pays the driver MORE than the passenger is charged and have examples. He would also explain that the driver may have also had quests or bonuses attached to that ride that aren’t on the receipt. Then he would provide examples of Eats orders that did the same. The intern who gave Koepel such easy questions to debunk would probably be fired and Uber’s stock would go up.


Your post is total bullshit as usual.

It's irrelevant whether or not Uber took a loss on someone else's ride. In no way, shape, or form does that give them the right to gouge me on my ride, period. 

Hey Dara, if you want to use loss leaders or other marketing methods in order to promote the company, that's up to you. Keep your greedy hands out of my pocket.

Anyway it's beside the point. Uber would continue to grab big cuts even if they never took any losses on rides because THEY CAN.

Everything Uber does is based on what they can get away, not what's ethical or unethical.

As far as Koppel is concerned you're completely wrong. Dara would do everything he could to make sure he was never in a position to have to try to justify grabbing outrageous cuts. That's why he makes himself available to sellout Harry Campbell.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> It's irrelevant whether or not Uber took a loss on someone else's ride. In no way, shape, or form does that give them the right to gouge me on my ride, period.


**** off, yes it does. It’s their ****ing company.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> Hey Dara, if you want to use loss leaders or other marketing methods in order to promote the company, that's up to you. Keep your greedy hands out of my pocket.


Hey Nats21 - if you don’t like our pay structure, you can go start your own company and charge what you like. Until then, **** off and go deliver some more Chick Fil A you ant!


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> Anyway it's beside the point. Uber would continue to grab big cuts even if they never took any losses on rides because THEY CAN.


This is how children respond to being proven wrong. Completely unproven and outlandish statements to make them feel less dumb.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> As opposed to drivers who fail to mention incentives or the times when they get paid a surge and the pax didn’t pay one in order to say Uber takes 50%? C’mon man, and least think about some of this absolute garbage before you litter it all over the site.


Incentives and surges? LMAO.

For the vast majority of rides, drivers are paid BASE RATE. Uber's "promos" and surges are a joke.

Your disgusting hypocrisy and dishonesty continues. Despite playing the part of devoted shill who constantly lectured drivers against wanting things that could "harm" poor little Uber, your were secretly hurting Uber's business by gaming the system with your unlimited DFs. And yet you've got the nerve to sit here and try to use the old shill routine again by babbling about how much money poor little Uber is losing on the rides.

For all anyone knows you're still gaming the system with unlimited DFs or some other schemes.

You're a complete hypocrite and a fraud. You've got zero credibility here.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> Hey Nats21 - if you don’t like our pay structure, you can go start your own company and charge what you like. Until then, **** off and go deliver some more Chick Fil A you ant!


You're a hypocrite and a fraud. Go eff yourself.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> This is how children respond to being proven wrong. Completely unproven and outlandish statements to make them feel less dumb.


You've "proven" nothing.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Livekilometers96 said:


> rides in which Uber pays the driver MORE than the passenger is charged


Of course, @Nats121 will most likely pretend to haven't seen them.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Focusing on Uber's overall take rate plays into Dara's hands because Uber is the DECIDER of what "take rate" means.


In fact, he could be deciding that take rate means the Marketplace fee.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> Of course, @Nats121 will most likely pretend to haven't seen them.


Big deal. I checked my last 20 deliveries and Uber took 61% of what the customer paid. That 61% includes a couple of free deliveries that were the result of credits. That's in addition to the 30% they take from the restaurants.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> For the vast majority of rides, drivers are paid BASE RATE. Uber's "promos" and surges are a joke.


This is a very bad take. I’d say for many drivers that some kind of quest, surge or incentive is attached to a significant portion of their rides.

Those drivers understand the system and learn, adapt, earn and repeat. I’m gonna make a shirt for you!


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> In fact, he could be deciding that take rate means the Marketplace fee.


Could be. There's no GAAP for "take rate". It can mean whatever Uber wants it to mean.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

_Tron_ said:


> In fact, he could be deciding that take rate means the Marketplace fee.


This is an interesting comment because the numbers he quotes for 25% do NOT include marketplace fees. Never has.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> This is a very bad take. I’d say for many drivers that some kind of quest, surge or incentive is attached to a significant portion of their rides.
> 
> Those drivers understand the system and learn, adapt, earn and repeat. I’m gonna make a shirt for you!


I took those deliveries because of the TIPS. Thanks to the generosity of the customers the tips were high enough to offset Uber's horrible payouts.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> I took those deliveries because of the TIPS. Thanks to the generosity of the customers the tips were high enough to offset Uber's horrible payouts.


I don't care who butters my bread. It all spends the same.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> the existence of AR strings being attached to it.


I don't know anything about these. What's the reference?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> I don't care who butters my bread. It all spends the same.


Drivers SHOULD care who butters the bread because if Uber paid decent rates drivers would be making a lot more money than they are now.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I think we need to take up a collection to buy Harry a box of tissues, he must have gotten something on his nose during that interview.

As far as Dara is concerned, nothing that I didn't expect from that lying *****. It's interesting, when I sued Uber over upfront fares, they were losing money on some, making lots on others. The attorney tried to use that "it averages out" argument with me when he was deposing me. My reply is that Uber is free to do whatever they want with their own money but they do not have a right to engage in poor business practices and redistribute money that I have earned to another driver and just call it even.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> I don't know anything about these. What's the reference?


Watch the video. It was discussed.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> My point has always been that Uber is NEVER EVER entitled to take more than 25% of any given ride, period.


Because that's what it was on the day that you agreed to the terms and conditions in effect in your market on the date of your initial agreement?


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> My reply is that Uber is free to do whatever they want with their own money but they do not have a right to engage in poor business practices and redistribute money that I have earned to another driver and just call it even.


That's the point I've been making. Taking a loss on someone else's ride doesn't give them the right to take extra from me to pay for it.

It's a red herring anyway. Uber always tries to take more and more money out of the pockets of the drivers regardless of whether or not they lose money on some rides. They do it because they know they can get away with it.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> Because that's what it was on the day that you agreed to the terms and conditions in effect in your market on the date of your initial agreement?


No, it's because it's more than enough for a "middleman" to be grabbing.

Meanwhile, Uber has NEVER tried to justify taking more. Instead they've always denied taking more than that.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Drivers SHOULD care who butters the bread because if Uber paid decent rates drivers would be making a lot more than they are now.


That's exactly like saying:

_Drivers SHOULD care who butters the bread because if customers paid decent tips drivers would be making a lot more than they are now._


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> No, it's because it's more than enough for a "middleman" to be grabbing.


But *how* did you determine that percentage?


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I think we need to take up a collection to buy Harry a box of tissues, he must have gotten something on his nose during that interview.


Harry's made a ton of money from Uber with referrals and ads and he doesn't want to lose that pipeline. He also doesn't want to lose his access to all the bigwigs in the gig economy so he sold out. It's as simple as that.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> That's exactly like saying:
> 
> _Drivers SHOULD care who butters the bread because if customers paid decent tips drivers would be making a lot more than they are now._


Because the companies are paying next to nothing an undue burden of paying the drivers has been dumped into the laps of the customers who already have to pay Uber AND the extra markups for the food. The extra markup is how the restaurants try to recoup the whopping 30% they have to pay Uber.

Given all the above charges it's almost a miracle that drivers get tipped at all.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

elelegido said:


> I don't see why Uber doesn't self-insure.


Are they willing to set aside a *huge* reserve in cash? I'm honestly not certain that they're willing to do that. Would investors agree to that?


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Because the companies are paying next to nothing an undue burden of paying the drivers has been dumped into the laps of the customers who already have to pay Uber AND the extra markups for the food. The extra markup is how the restaurants try to recoup the whopping 30% they have to pay Uber.
> 
> Given all the above charges it's almost a miracle that drivers get tipped at all.


Were you making a point here that's relevant to my comment? If so, I'm not sure if I see it.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> But *how* did you determine that percentage?


Other "go-betweens" such as realtors, stock brokers, agents, ebay, etc all charge much lower percentages than Uber. Thus 25% is plenty.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> The extra markup is how the restaurants try to recoup the whopping 30% they have to pay Uber.


And which specific restaurants executed agreements with Uber against their will?


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> Were you making a point here that's relevant to my comment? If so, I'm not sure if I see it.


 Maybe you don't like my position on this but it certainly is relevant to this topic.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Other "go-betweens" such as realtors, stock brokers, agents, ebay, etc all charge much lower percentages than Uber. Thus 25% is plenty.


Sincere question: Why not 33.3% or even 40%?

What Is the Maximum Amount a Personal Injury Lawyer Can Take from a Client’s Settlement?


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Maybe you don't like my position on this but it certainly is relevant to this topic.


Please clarify your point and how it's relevant. If you don't wish to do so, that's fine. Just understand that you won't be swaying anyone your way though.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Other "go-betweens" such as realtors, stock brokers, agents, ebay, etc all charge much lower percentages than Uber. Thus 25% is plenty.





> *How much commission do Realtors get paid?*
> 
> Only a very small portion of Realtors work on salary — the commission model is much more common. Real estate commissions can be negotiated, but they *typically run about 5 percent to 6 percent *of a home’s sale price. The exact terms of an agent’s commission vary from sale to sale, and can depend on region and which firm they work for.
> 
> ...


Good point. Uber should be like realtors! Take just 5%! Change my mind. Go!


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> Please clarify your point and how it's relevant. If you don't wish to do so, that's fine. Just understand that you won't be swaying anyone your way though.


Pretty much every thread you join you try to bog things down with word games and detours of minutiae. I made my point and I don't care if you agree or not.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

We need more folks wearing their thinking caps.


Nats121 said:


> Pretty much every thread you join you try to bog things down with word games and detours of minutiae. I made my point and I don't care if you agree or not.


My questions are germane and just as legitimate as your gripes. That you disagree and use dismissive language like "detours" and "minutiae" instead of endeavoring to supply direct answers to my honest and germane questions simply exposes the inherent weaknesses of your assertions.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Other "go-betweens" such as realtors, stock brokers, agents, ebay, etc all charge much lower percentages than Uber. Thus 25% is plenty.


So we have discussed go-betweens taking somewhere between 1.5% (payment processors) and 40% (attorneys). And you're proposing 25% for Uber based on what data exactly?


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> That's the point I've been making. Taking a loss on someone else's ride doesn't give them the right to take extra from me to pay for


YES IT DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s their company and it happens in almost every ****ing industry. How do you not understand this. What kind of accident were you in that makes you this full of yourself?


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> I made my point and I don't care if you agree or not.


I'm not seeking agreement, rather understanding and comprehension. Agreement may never materialize. Disagreement is common. Swaying someone to adopt one's opinion with sound reasoning and facts is harder, but still doable.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Taking a loss on someone else's ride doesn't give them the right to take extra from me to pay for it.


Do you believe that McDonald's has the exact same profit margin on an ice cream sundae as they do on an iced tea?


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> YES IT DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s their company and it happens in almost every ****ing industry. How do you not understand this. What kind of accident were you in that makes you this full of yourself?


Big deal if it's their company. They still can't do whatever they want, especially when they're skating on such thin ice. Dara knows this of course, which is why he nor anyone else from Uber has ever tried to justify taking 80% of a trip. The only ones who try to justify it are people like you.

"It" happens in almost every industry? Was is "it"? Post examples of other industries doing whatever "it" is.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> Do you believe that McDonald's has the exact same profit margin on an ice cream sundae as they do on an iced tea?


That's a dumb comparison because McD isn't taking money out of the hamburger flipper's pockets to give to the cashier.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> That's a dumb comparison because McD isn't taking money out of the hamburger flipper's pockets to give to the cashier.


Survey says?


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Taking a loss on someone else's ride doesn't give them the right to take extra from me to pay for it.


You're *agreeing* to accept less.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Heisenburger said:


> Are they willing to set aside a *huge* reserve in cash? I'm honestly not certain that they're willing to do that. Would investors agree to that?


Depends how much of the investor cash treasure trove they have left and what their cash flow forecasts look like.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> Harry's made a ton of money from Uber with referrals and ads and he doesn't want to lose that pipeline. He also doesn't want to lose his access to all the bigwigs in the gig economy so he sold out. It's as simple as that.


Yes, Harry's a sell out. He started out ok but then exchanged his integrity for money and the rest is history.

He's a non-entity as far as experienced drivers go - we just write him off as a paid shill and disregard anything that comes from him or his content mill website, but there's a risk that the naive and the new drivers may buy into his nonsense. That's the bad thing about this clown, IMO.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

elelegido said:


> Yes, Harry's a sell out. He started out ok but then exchanged his integrity for money and the rest is history.
> 
> He's a non-entity as far as experienced drivers go - we just write him off as a paid shill and disregard anything that comes from him or his content mill website, but there's a risk that the naive and the new drivers may buy into his nonsense. That's the bad thing about this clown, IMO.


I agree that he was better in the beginning. His was the first rideshare website I visited when I was just starting out and I learned some things from his site. His forums were very busy then and some good info was exchanged.

He was never outspoken even in the early days but at least he wasn't the totally wishy-washy marshmallow he is now.

His site has been a ghost town for years. Hardly anyone goes there. He's been a has-been for a long time.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Livekilometers96 said:


> This is an interesting comment because the numbers he quotes for 25% do NOT include marketplace fees. Never has.


I may not have been clear. I thumbed through a few rides, and the deducted Marketplace Fee is the closest match to the CEO's fantasy 20-25% claimed take rate. So my comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Regardless, Dara is being less than forthcoming when claiming such a percentage.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Livekilometers96 said:


> As opposed to drivers who fail to mention incentives or the times when they get paid a surge and the pax didn’t pay one in order to say Uber takes 50%? C’mon man, and least think about some of this absolute garbage before you litter it all over the site.


The way they designed their app is their own problem, their mediocrity is not the driver's problem, while true that those extras they get from (let's call it) "Uber theft" rides in which they take a good chunk ~50%-80% are their way of recovering for promos and incentives, the way they approach the design is rather stupid and they do this to keep a false sense of "cheapness" in the rides, while any normal human being would increase the cost of the ride AS THEY MATCH or at the very least ask the pax if they want to pay the amount extra for a faster matching, Uber chooses to steal to compensate the losses in surges and promos, Larry wasn't wrong when he said:









Embedded Java, Conversational AI, Travel Schedule, Event Planning - Larry Ellison: My cat could make Uber. | Facebook | By Embedded Java, Conversational AI, Travel Schedule, Event Planning | Larry Ellison: My Cat Could Make Uber #Sustainability #ThinkUnity #Transformation #JordanEtem


128 views, 0 likes, 0 loves, 0 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Embedded Java, Conversational AI, Travel Schedule, Event Planning: Larry Ellison: My Cat Could Make Uber #Sustainability...




fb.watch













'An app my cat could have written': Larry Ellison reportedly says Uber's business model is 'almost worthless'


The billionaire cofounder or Oracle who is on Tesla's board isn't a fan of WeWork either, he told a group of entrepreneurs at his San Francisco home.




www.businessinsider.com





Who is he and what is Java? A tech God, Java is actual software, now... Can I ask you: how many billions do you think Uber sinks in development, being a "tech company"? If they exceed 1,5 billion, they aren't getting their money's worth, Microsoft spent 1.5 billion making windows 10 (software 1000x harder and more complete than Uber), most AAA gaming companies spend about 200 million making titles that spin circles around Uber as a whole system not just the app, their problem with their devs spending their time being mediocre and snorting cocaine off hookers ass cracks, is in no way or shape, the driver's, this goes for Lyft too.

My inability to come up with a solution is not an excuse to steal, they know this and they make it their excuse to steal as much as they can from the driver.

Tech company? My ass.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

I think trying to make sense of what Dara means is a waste of time. It's like when you're walking past someone's property and a little mutt comes bounding out of the house and starts yap-yap-yap-yapping at you. You don't stop to think, "What is this little animal trying to say? What does it mean? What does it want?". You just write it off as an annoying little mutt and carry on with your day.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> I may not have been clear. I thumbed through a few rides, and the deducted Marketplace Fee is the closest match to the CEO's fantasy 20-25% claimed take rate. So my comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Regardless, Dara is being less than forthcoming when claiming such a percentage.


Their cut of the rides becomes much higher when booking/marketplace fees get added. In most markets the high booking fees guarantee that Uber and Lyft will get more than 50% of what the pax paid for short rides.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

elelegido said:


> I think trying to make sense of what Dara means is a waste of time. It's like when you're walking past someone's property and a little mutt comes bounding out of the house and starts yap-yap-yap-yapping at you. You don't stop to think, "What is this little animal trying to say? What does it mean? What does it want?". You just write it off as an annoying little mutt and carry on with your day.


Uber takes massive cuts because they can, not because they need to. They're not robbing Driver A to pay Driver B, they're robbing him to pay THEMSELVES.

"Redistribution" of earnings is nothing more than a lame excuse by Uber apologists and a red herring.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

_Tron_ said:


> I may not have been clear. I thumbed through a few rides, and the deducted Marketplace Fee is the closest match to the CEO's fantasy 20-25% claimed take rate. So my comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Regardless, Dara is being less than forthcoming when claiming such a percentage.


Actually no he’s not. Every single TOS agreement your agreed to online has included this explanation for at least the last 4 years. It explicitly stated that the Marketplace Fee is a separate fee/transaction between Uber and the Pax and that you agree that your compensation is not based off such fees. They’ve made this abundantly clear to any driver that takes his/her/their job seriously and actually reads the “changes” section of the TOS.

What I don’t like about the MPF is that Uber does not make it as clear to the pax that of that(up to) $10 fee, the driver is getting none of it. I think it should be noted on the receipt that 100% of this fee goes to Uber and is not part of their pay. That being said, it is included when Uber calculates % tips. So if pax is charged $100 total including all fees, a 20% tip is $20 rather than taking out all the fees before calculating.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Screwber driver north said:


> The way they designed their app is their own problem, their mediocrity is not the driver's problem


The app is working exactly as designed. They are seeing record revenues, driver pay is at an all time high, there is no mediocrity here. Decoupled pricing saved this industry. It provided a path to profitability.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> Decoupled pricing saved this industry. It provided a path to profitability.


How did it do that?


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> How did it do that?


Because.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

elelegido said:


> Depends how much of the investor cash treasure trove they have left and what their cash flow forecasts look like.


Check this out.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Heisenburger said:


> Check this out.


Yeah, it makes sense for them to do that. I had thought that they could set up their own subsidiaries as separate legal entities (to isolate the liability) to deal exclusively with insurance.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> Because.


That makes more sense then the explanation you decided not to offer.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

elelegido said:


> Yeah, it makes sense for them to do that. I had thought that they could set up their own subsidiaries as separate legal entities (to isolate the liability) to deal exclusively with insurance.


Also this one. It touches upon what I mentioned earlier somewhere on here about these companies externalizing costs.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Livekilometers96 said:


> Actually no he’s not. Every single TOS agreement your agreed to online has included this explanation for at least the last 4 years. It explicitly stated that the Marketplace Fee is a separate fee/transaction between Uber and the Pax and that you agree that your compensation is not based off such fees. They’ve made this abundantly clear to any driver that takes his/her/their job seriously and actually reads the “changes” section of the TOS.
> 
> What I don’t like about the MPF is that Uber does not make it as clear to the pax that of that(up to) $10 fee, the driver is getting none of it. I think it should be noted on the receipt that 100% of this fee goes to Uber and is not part of their pay. That being said, it is included when Uber calculates % tips. So if pax is charged $100 total including all fees, a 20% tip is $20 rather than taking out all the fees before calculating.


First, I think you are still missing my original point, but it was a small one and unimportant. But now I'm wondering if you are failing to understand that "marketplace" and "service" fees are made up terms to rationalize not sharing a portion of the revenue with the driver. Therefore all claims of percentages are disingenuous if they don't include the entire amount paid by the rider. I read the TOS updates. Regardless of what Uber states the fees are for, and how often they make this clear, nothing changes the fact that Uber takes a cut of what the rider pays far beyond the amount claimed. It's smoke and mirrors. I drive with the understanding that is how the company operates. But when the CEO speaks into a microphone using Uberspeak, this is going to be my reaction.

There was a time, btw, when there was no marketplace fee. It was added as a ruse to take a higher % and make it sound like the company is not.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Heisenburger said:


> Also this one. It touches upon what I mentioned earlier somewhere on here about these companies externalizing costs.


I found James River to be excellent when they dealt with a $21,000 total loss claim. They paid out $2k more than I valued the car at and it was hassle-free. The guy that caused the accident was under-insured but that didn't matter at all.

As pointed out above, though, if Uber takes over claims then the one thing we can all be sure of is that it's going to be the usual Uber shitshow of hassle, misinformation, delaying tactics, excuses and failures-to-pay.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

elelegido said:


> if Uber takes over claims then the one thing we can all be sure of is that it's going to be the usual Uber shitshow of hassle, misinformation, delaying tactics, excuses and failures-to-pay.


No, because it won't be Uber as we know it. It's not like it's gonna be lackeys in the Philippines or Indonesia or Pakistan. It's an insurance company (per state), just owned by Uber but still an autonomous subsidiary, that will be subject to state oversight on state specific automotive insurance legislation.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

_Tron_ said:


> There was a time, btw, when there was no marketplace fee. It was added as a ruse to take a higher % and make it sound like the company is not.


They're not unique though.



> The marketplace fee is a percentage of revenue that is taken out of all items that are sold for Robux on Roblox. This fee helps support the Roblox economy by keeping the supply of Robux consistent, reducing inflation. The fee for normal members was ~90%, as opposed to ~30% for Roblox Premium users. As for the fee for developer products and passes, the fee used to be ~90%, as opposed to ~30% for Roblox Premium users, however on April 2, 2020, an announcement was made on the Developer Forum by coefficients saying that the fee for developer products and passes has been decreased to ~30% for all users.
> 
> 
> https://roblox.fandom.com/wiki/Marketplace_fee


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

_Tron_ said:


> But now I'm wondering if you are failing to understand that "marketplace" and "service" fees are made up terms to rationalize not sharing a portion of the revenue with the driver


No I’m 100% aware of what it is. I’m just not sure why it’s so important for some to hear Dara say publicly that they actually end up with more than 25% of the fare when factoring in marketplace fees. What CEO on the planet goes out and openly hands out information that could be criticized? You say what you can legally say to make the numbers look as good as possible so investors continue to invest and the product continues to grow.

What does it change for you if he openly admits that their take rate is closer to 40% after the MPF. You drove before knowing that and now you admit that you continue to drive knowing it.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Pretty much every thread you join you try to bog things down with word games and detours of minutiae. I made my point and I don't care if you agree or not.


Your reply made me think of who Heisenburger reminds me of with him constantly defending Uber. Do you remember The Jax on the delivery forum? Just like him!

More drivers should be outraged at Uber’s greedy tactics.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

_Tron_ said:


> There was a time, btw, when there was no marketplace fee


There was also a time when almost 100% of the rides paid more to the driver than the passenger paid in total. Things change as businesses grow. Learn, Adapt, Earn Repeat.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Livekilometers96 said:


> Learn, Adapt, Earn Repeat.


I think you left out a comma.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Heisenburger said:


> No, because it won't be Uber as we know it. It's not like it's gonna be lackeys in the Philippines or Indonesia or Pakistan. It's an insurance company (per state), just owned by Uber but still an autonomous subsidiary, that will be subject to state oversight on state specific automotive insurance legislation.


Uber's US-based subsidiary leasing arm that rented cars to drivers, Xchange, was a total disaster. It was Uber just as we know it, with unparalleled levels of ineptitude and apathy.

Of course, I could be wrong and Uber's new insurance arm could be a beacon of professional excellence and super-high quality customer service. But, looking at Uber's track record, I highly doubt it. Remember, their motto is to spend as little on drivers as possible.

Time will tell.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Invisible said:


> More drivers should be outraged at Uber’s greedy tactics.


Oh! Hey again @Nats121
👋


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Livekilometers96 said:


> The app is working exactly as designed. They are seeing record revenues, driver pay is at an all time high, there is no mediocrity here. Decoupled pricing saved this industry. It provided a path to profitability.


The app is working exactly as designed? ROFL, says who? Shows how much you understand.

The reason why Uber shows losses is their inability to balance the surge/quest/streak/turbo/invite with the pay, Both companies rely in stealing from one fare to compensate for the other, this creates conflict with the driver's mindset pushing the drivers to **** with them, be it cash fares or long hauls or hacking or cherry picking or whatever; fancy a price fixing lawsuit? 🤣

If they are seeing higher revenues (color me shocked) since a few quarters after the pandemic started, it is because the morons finally figured out that surge and promos draw drivers that will not bother gaming the system and will just make their money on any crap ride and go home, the higher net comes also at the cut they had in their operating cost (be it driver scams or employee layoffs), the app is also full of newbs these days, give them a few months of being paid shit and watch them become the ghosts of the past, it's a never ending cycle.

Driver pay is at an all time high? WHERE?!?!?! in 3-4 states? all promos, surges and quests and crap have dwindled, back to committing the same stupidity? They are back again to increasing operating costs and cutting the drivers, they beat the hell out of Lyft for that sole reason and it had nothing to do with app design.

If you are going to speak, at least investigate why they are making money and if you are a shill of sorts, I'm starting to understand how Uber will never be profitable when speaking so cluelessly about how the company even increased its revenues.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Livekilometers96 said:


> No I’m 100% aware of what it is. I’m just not sure why it’s so important for some to hear Dara say publicly that they actually end up with more than 25% of the fare when factoring in marketplace fees. What CEO on the planet goes out and openly hands out information that could be criticized? You say what you can legally say to make the numbers look as good as possible so investors continue to invest and the product continues to grow.
> 
> What does it change for you if he openly admits that their take rate is closer to 40% after the MPF. You drove before knowing that and now you admit that you continue to drive knowing it.


What changes is integrity. If Uber dealt with us in an honest and straightforward fashion I would approach this differently. Now, I'm 2 people. In my 9-5 job I work for a fantastic group of people that operate at the highest degree of integrity and honesty. This allows me to do my job to the fullest without having to keep an eye out for how they are going to screw me. I have complete faith in my leadership and I know I can count on them. This encourages me to do my best for them and makes me want to put the needs of our clients before my workload. Contrast that with Uber. I know that they will screw me when they can, they have done it too many times for me to even try to recount. As a result, I have a very adversarial role with Uber, up to and including having sued them for breach of contract and gotten a settlement because they were wrong. I continue to drive for them because I am able to figure out how to best screw them back to make a decent return on my efforts and resources. I know that Uber does not have my best interests at heart so I have to spend a significant amount of time manipulating the system to the detriment of the riders in order to protect my earnings. 



Livekilometers96 said:


> There was also a time when almost 100% of the rides paid more to the driver than the passenger paid in total. Things change as businesses grow. Learn, Adapt, Earn Repeat.


8 years ago when Uber just started in my area, the take was 20% + $1 booking fee. They were in a startup phase at that point so while most of my rides I did not receive more than 100%, contrary to your observations, I did get incentives and bonuses which probably got me to the 90% range. So I'm sure they were losing money at that point but that's part of starting a business. You may lose money when getting started but your employees still need to get paid. If you are successful then you start making money and the value of the company increases dramatically. Shareholders/investors/entrepreneurs get "paid" in a different way and at a different magnitude. They are gambling, we are working.

I've said this before in other posts but I think it bears repeating, if Uber wants to be wildly successful they can be, they need to align their and drivers interests so we work together. The answer is simplicity. If you believe in the free market then get rid of ALL incentives. Charge reasonable fares, take 20% add an insurance fee that reflects your true cost of insurance to ach ride, labeling it clearly, stop suppressing and manipulating surge and publish some data to help new drivers understand when and where demand is and guess what, people will drive when it's busy because there's money out there. Right now I get screwed on some rides and they get screwed on others, they probably only end up getting 15-20% of what the riders are paying from me but I have to go through all sorts of contortions to get to that point. Simple and honest beats sneaky and corrupt if you want to build a good reputation as a service provider.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Enormous irony!

Compare this one:



Disgusted Driver said:


> sued them for breach of contract and gotten a settlement


To these two:



Disgusted Driver said:


> I continue to drive for them because I am able to figure out how to best screw them back





Disgusted Driver said:


> I have to spend a significant amount of time manipulating the system


----------



## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Look at it this way, an insurance company gets about $500 per month per taxi vehicle and they can do about 100 x 30 = 3000 trips per month or $17 per trip.
> 
> In Uber the insurance companies are getting up to $10 per trip for both commercial and regular coverage.
> 
> I don't see where I was going with this, but it sounded good when I started. 🤔


Assuming 100 trips per day *x* 30 days per month = 3000 trips per month
$500 insurance premium per month / 3000 trips per month is $0.17 per trip.

Misplaced decimal, @*180dayofchange*


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> Enormous irony!
> 
> Compare this one:
> 
> ...


Screwing Uber is not just pay back, to some of us it has become a hobby or even a way of life.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Screwing Uber is not just pay back, to some of us it has become a hobby or even a way of life.


Yeah, the adjectives batshit and crazy should accompany the nouns payback and hobby.

Hell Hath No Fury Like a Woman Scorned


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> Enormous irony!
> 
> Compare this one:
> 
> ...


I know that people like to use fancy words but I am having a hard time seeing the irony in the statements you quoted. Here's the definition of the word if you want to check and see if it applies: definition of irony - Google Search

I'm not seeing it. Feel free to elaborate, otherwise I'll assume it's bloviation on your part.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> am having a hard time seeing the irony in the statements you quoted


The settlement strongly suggests that sufficient agreement was reached as to provide remedy for past wrongs.

However, subsequent to the awarded compensation for past wrongdoing, you continue to attempt to extract additional compensation for the *same* past wrongdoing.

It may not be irony, but it's certainly vindictive. It basically proves that it wasn't actually a settlement in your eyes which means you got screwed and shouldn't have settled but now you're mad at yourself and trying to retaliate. Not gonna lie: kinda sad, man.









'Hell Hath No Fury Like A Woman Scorned', Meaning & Context


‘Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned’ is an idiom that is adapted from a line in William Congreve’s play, The Mourning Bride (1697). The line from which it came is ‘Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor hell a fury like a woman scorned.”




nosweatshakespeare.com


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> The settlement strongly suggests that sufficient agreement was reached as to provide remedy for past wrongs.


I think he means the settlement was for past wrongs.

@Disgusted Driver continues to drive and continues to get screwed so he continues to screw back for ongoing screwing.

You already knew that but it gives you an excuse to toss word salads.

Carry on.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> You already knew that but it gives you an excuse to toss word salads.


Pathetic.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> continues to drive and continues to get screwed so he continues to screw back for ongoing screwing.


Next level genius BS right here! 🙄

Like an abuse victim returning to the abuser after the civil trial is over, getting awarded a judgment, receiving said award, then attempting to get another trial and settlement. 🙄


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> Next level genius BS right here! 🙄
> 
> Like an abuse victim returning to the abuser after the civil trial is over, getting awarded a judgment, receiving said award, then attempting to get another trial and settlement. 🙄


Dude, you are an idiot. I sued them over up front fares because what they did was clearly a breech of contract. I had a good time nailing them fair and square. Even though I only got a few bucks, I cost then millions. The other unethical things they do are not illegal that i can see or prove. Vindictive sure, you screw me over then there is a price to pay. This abuser crap is laughable. I am a big boy and I do what's best for me. Clearing 35 to 40 an hour is good for me so I do it. Getting there frequently and enjoyably means that Uber makes less on me, warms my heart. 
There's no need to project whatever crazy you have in your head on my words. You made some wild assumptions which indicate some interesting character flaws, why not just ask for clarification if you don't understand.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I sued them over up front fares because what they did was clearly a breech of contract. I had a good time nailing them fair and square. Even though I only got a few bucks, I cost then millions.


Now, your ongoing obsession and intense hatred years later makes so much sense Skippy. You're *still* trying to make yourself whole from your unpaid service hours you kindly provided helping set-up the CAL attorneys for success in the courtroom. And you're seemingly doing it the only way you know how: by expediting the disappearance of local surge spots as quickly as you can by chasing them and occasionally snagging one and servicing that customer for Uber. It really is clear now what drives you to get up and get out there each day to get yours.

We should all aim to be more like you -- perhaps the world would be a better place. It's possible!



Disgusted Driver said:


> FYI, I filed a class action lawsuit against Uber a few years ago. Took an attorney willing to take the case, no money out of pocket, *a couple hundred hours of my time* explaining things to the attorney, reviewing documents, doing deposition, etc... and I was rewarded with the princely sum of $127 for my efforts.
> 
> ...
> 
> I have no regrets about suing them despite the paltry gains.


----------



## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

This is what happens when you have morons go into a business field they know nothing about and dont understand the ramifications of letting everyone and their mother drive for some side hustle cash. They have never met any ot their drivers and the xchange leasing was a disaster. They rented cars to people with no inspection on said cars and people with bad credit who didnt have the funds to even pay if they were at fault. If you have drivers they need to be able to make money at least 350 dollars a day to fund themselves and car maintenance. They dont understand basic economics of driving


----------



## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Screwber driver north said:


> The reason why Uber shows losses is their inability to balance the surge/quest/streak/turbo/invite with the pay, Both companies rely in stealing from one fare to compensate for the other, this creates conflict with the driver's mindset pushing the drivers to **** with them, be it cash fares or long hauls or hacking or cherry picking or whatever; fancy a price fixing lawsuit?


This is a cute hypothesis but it’s too simple minded. You aren’t grasping the bigger picture. Uber is not stealing from one fare to pay another because it’s inept, it’s doing it because it’s the most efficient way to get the most amount of rides fulfilled.

Think of it like a restaurant. A soda doesn’t really cost $4, BUT if they only charged $1 then you $15 pasta dish becomes $18. And maybe you don’t eat there because of that. By charging more for salads and sides and drinks, the cost of the main dish stays at a reasonable level for everyone.

Uber is the same way. They know Sally won’t pay $15-20 for a shortie on Wednesday at 10am, and they know drivers tend not to take shorties unless surge or incentives are attached. So what do they do? They offer enough $1/ride quest or $4/ride bonus zone or surge that some driver will take it. Had they not offered incentives Sally may have had a bad user experience and decide to use Lyft or take the bus. By charging Sally her usual $9 for a shortie while the driver made $10-12 after incentives Uber has met the needs of both parties. Then on Saturday night after the UFC fight and concerts all end at the same time, Sally WILL be willing to pay $20-25+ for a shortie, and there will be drivers that are still happy for a $10-$12 shortie that normally pays $4.35. That’s essentially a 2.3-2.5x surge.

Now Had it been how you want it to be. We would have a stalemate of drivers refusing to work and riders leaving the platform because they can’t get reliable rides. This is EXACTLY why the taxicab industry failed to succeed beyond metropolitan areas. By forcing every single ride to be an individual transaction to meet a certain criteria financially instead of taking advantages of dynamic pricing structure based on demand was catastrophic.

Some of y’all should learn how to look at the whole operation, not just the individual rides you give.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Livekilometers96 said:


> This is a cute hypothesis but it’s too simple minded. You aren’t grasping the bigger picture. Uber is not stealing from one fare to pay another because it’s inept, it’s doing it because it’s the most efficient way to get the most amount of rides fulfilled.
> 
> Think of it like a restaurant. A soda doesn’t really cost $4, BUT if they only charged $1 then you $15 pasta dish becomes $18. And maybe you don’t eat there because of that. By charging more for salads and sides and drinks, the cost of the main dish stays at a reasonable level for everyone.
> 
> ...


Nice analysis. Thanks for the breakdown. Hopefully it will sink in with a couple lurkers.

Regrettably, there are more of the simple-minded who peck out characters on a screen than there are actual business minded users like you and me. Such is true in life.


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Livekilometers96 said:


> This is a cute hypothesis but it’s too simple minded. You aren’t grasping the bigger picture. Uber is not stealing from one fare to pay another because it’s inept, it’s doing it because it’s the most efficient way to get the most amount of rides fulfilled.
> 
> Think of it like a restaurant. A soda doesn’t really cost $4, BUT if they only charged $1 then you $15 pasta dish becomes $18. And maybe you don’t eat there because of that. By charging more for salads and sides and drinks, the cost of the main dish stays at a reasonable level for everyone.
> 
> ...


THIS IS THE BEST POST I HAVE EVER READ ON THIS FORUM!


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Ted Fink said:


> THIS IS THE BEST POST I HAVE EVER READ ON THIS FORUM!


I even bookmarked to quote later!


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Here's another thought that goes right along with this...

How many of you (UP members) ... IF you were being paid FAIR rates (which most of you currently are not), but if you were, how many of you would give a rats ass what the percentage was. I think we all know corporations are greedy and rip everyone off... that's normal... but at the end of the day if we were being compensated fairly we wouldn't care.

For example my day job: I'm paid what I think is a reasonable salary for the work I do. I have never had even the slightest bit of interest in what my employer makes in terms of profit - as long as they aren't going down the drain because then my job would be in jeopardy.


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

So really the issue is that most drivers aren't being paid enough. The fact that uber charges too much and apparently STILL doesn't make a profit, is not really the issue.


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

If we're in the matrix, Morpheus says "what if i told you that Uber was going to pay $2.00 a mile UberX in ALL markets, but their take rate is going to be 60%" - does anyone care? Not me!


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Ted Fink said:


> How many of you (UP members) ... IF you were being paid FAIR rates (which most of you currently are not), but if you were, how many of you would give a rats ass what the percentage was.


Kinda where this thread is going:



Heisenburger said:


> Hypothetical scenario and follow up questions:
> 
> *2022 year-end (Q4) closeout promotion:*
> 
> ...


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Livekilometers96 said:


> This is a cute hypothesis but it’s too simple minded. You aren’t grasping the bigger picture. Uber is not stealing from one fare to pay another because it’s inept, it’s doing it because it’s the most efficient way to get the most amount of rides fulfilled


No, it's not, you idiot.

It's because they haven't figured out a way to transfer surges/promos/incentives to live quotes in the POS app Larry's cat could have coded.



Livekilometers96 said:


> Think of it like a restaurant. A soda doesn’t really cost $4, BUT if they only charged $1 then you $15 pasta dish becomes $18. And maybe you don’t eat there because of that. By charging more for salads and sides and drinks, the cost of the main dish stays at a reasonable level for everyone.


I'll think of it as having stupid developers that can't figure out a solution, instead of coding the solution they work around the problem, here is a better example: how about making a tube that goes from point A to point B flowing bidirectionally instead of using a bucket to flood one side or the other when needed?

Their approach is that of a caveman making a wheel not a **** sapiens making a transistor.



Livekilometers96 said:


> Uber is the same way. They know Sally won’t pay $15-20 for a shortie on Wednesday at 10am, and they know drivers tend not to take shorties unless surge or incentives are attached. So what do they do? They offer enough $1/ride quest or $4/ride bonus zone or surge that some driver will take it. Had they not offered incentives Sally may have had a bad user experience and decide to use Lyft or take the bus. By charging Sally her usual $9 for a shortie while the driver made $10-12 after incentives Uber has met the needs of both parties. Then on Saturday night after the UFC fight and concerts all end at the same time, Sally WILL be willing to pay $20-25+ for a shortie, and there will be drivers that are still happy for a $10-$12 shortie that normally pays $4.35. That’s essentially a 2.3-2.5x surge.


You still don't get it, you think taking from a ride and giving it back in incentives actually makes things better but wait until the ants figure out they can do cash rides and all those "overflows" are gonna go directly into their pockets, it's just time, Uber is plain lucky to have uncorrupted ants today, they learn though and when they do, Uber always feels the sting in the bunghole.



Livekilometers96 said:


> Now Had it been how you want it to be. We would have a stalemate of drivers refusing to work and riders leaving the platform because they can’t get reliable rides. This is EXACTLY why the taxicab industry failed to succeed beyond metropolitan areas. By forcing every single ride to be an individual transaction to meet a certain criteria financially instead of taking advantages of dynamic pricing structure based on demand was catastrophic.
> 
> Some of y’all should learn how to look at the whole operation, not just the individual rides you give.


Rofl, or you can learn something about app design and coding, even better, learn how things work.


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> THIS IS THE BEST POST I HAVE EVER READ ON THIS FORUM!





Heisenburger said:


> I even bookmarked to quote later


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> instead of coding the solution they work around the problem, here is a better example: how about making a tube that goes from point A to point B flowing bidirectionally instead of using a bucket to flood one side or the other when needed?


 This merely illustrates your misconception of the *problem* to be solved.


----------



## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Screwber driver north said:


> It's because they haven't figured out a way to transfer surges/promos/incentives to live quotes in the POS app Larry's cat could have coded.


Oh yeah? Then why hasn’t someone else coded an app that does what you think it should do? C’mon man, you gotta think about some of this nonsense


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Rofl, or you can learn something about app design and coding, even better, learn how things work.


It's unfortunate that you're upset about @Livekilometers96 educating you.


----------



## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Screwber driver north said:


> wait until the ants figure out they can do cash rides and all those "overflows" are gonna go directly into their pockets, it's just time, Uber is plain lucky to have uncorrupted ants today, they learn though and when they do, Uber always feels the sting in the bunghole.


This is why I keep calling you a simp. Drivers aren’t doing cash rides as nearly as much as you think. Just because you read of a few people doing it on a tiny chat forum doesn’t mean it’s a widespread issue. Uber did TWENTY NINE BILLION DOLLARS in gross bookings last quarter. Do you have any ****ing idea how many illegal cash rides that would have to be done to put a dent in that? Get a ****ing clue bro.


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> It's unfortunate that you're upset about @Livekilometers96 educating you.


Educating me? Only a moron considers that a good post, which explains why you were wowed.

He explained what everyone and his mother knows, to you and ted... like discovering the earth is round, of course.

I just explained in his simplistic look why they don't do it normally and have to recur to such methods but of course that's probably too hard for you to grasp, carry on.


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> This merely illustrates your misconception of the *problem* to be solved.


Eh?

I don't follow your idiocy, what are you trying to get at?

You DO realize that this has been a problem for both companies since they were created, no?


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Livekilometers96 said:


> This is why I keep calling you a simp. Drivers aren’t doing cash rides as nearly as much as you think. Just because you read of a few people doing it on a tiny chat forum doesn’t mean it’s a widespread issue. Uber did TWENTY NINE BILLION DOLLARS in gross bookings last quarter. Do you have any ****ing idea how many illegal cash rides that would have to be done to put a dent in that? Get a ****ing clue bro.


I say let those who want to do cash rides go ahead and do them. The risks have been posted over and over. If they get caught or get in an accident, they will learn a hard lesson.

We're all adults here, but... wait... ARE WE?

Even a 500 dollar cash ride isn't worth the risk. Sure, you and the PAX are friends, nothing to see here. If PAX gets injured, trust me, he's not your friend anymore and will throw you under the bus.


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> He explained what everyone and his mother knows, to you and ted... like discovering the earth is round, of course.


Yea, I'm such a noob. Only done 12k rides on Uber and 3k rides on Lyft. Not to say that I've done more than (whomever) or to brag, but just to say that I've been around the block a time or two.


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Livekilometers96 said:


> This is why I keep calling you a simp. Drivers aren’t doing cash rides as nearly as much as you think. Just because you read of a few people doing it on a tiny chat forum doesn’t mean it’s a widespread issue. Uber did TWENTY NINE BILLION DOLLARS in gross bookings last quarter. Do you have any ****ing idea how many illegal cash rides that would have to be done to put a dent in that? Get a ****ing clue bro.


Drivers aren't doing cash rides because they are newbs, the nest is full of newbs, again and slowly this time...

When Uber decides to cut the distraction of bonuses as they will eventually do (and are already doing) ants will find a way to make money and all those little overflows will become cash rides.

Cash rides in 2017-18 were such a problem they had to pay off the local govs of every state to push them to hunt down the drivers, the gov barely caught any and we couldn't observe the end result because the pandemic hit, check the revenues for those years. 🤣 

Note that 2018 Uber makes its debut for positive net, do you know why that happened? I will let you guess since you are clueless about everything that surrounds you.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Cash rides in 2017-18 were such a problem they had to pay off the local govs of every state to push them to hunt down the drivers


Citation?


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> Drivers aren't doing cash rides because they are newbs, the nest is full of newbs, again and slowly this time...
> 
> When Uber decides to cut the distraction of bonuses as they will eventually do (and are already doing) ants will find a way to make money and all those little overflows will become cash rides.
> 
> ...


I'll state slowly again for the mentally challenged... LET THOSE WHO WANT TO DO THE CASH RIDES DO THEM. THEY'VE HAD FAIR WARNING. IDGAF what you think Uber's rationale is for incentives combined with variable pricing. The reason is to get more staffing when it's needed and to get people to take rides they wouldn't normally take. YES of course they are also being greedy in the process, thus the whole discussion about take rate.

I'll state this again slowly too - the REAL issue is drivers aren't paid enough in most markets. The rest is just window dressing (or balsamic vinaigrette, if you prefer)


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Eh?


Exactly.


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Livekilometers96 said:


> Oh yeah? Then why hasn’t someone else coded an app that does what you think it should do? C’mon man, you gotta think about some of this nonsense


OH this is priceless! Almost missed it. 🤣

Again, your lack any understanding to what it takes to make the crap Uber has done as a software piece or even understand they are a taxi company hiding behind the veil of a tech company, a tech company would have found the solution ages ago but they don't hire devs, they hire con artists who have developer exp, this is why they suck.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> OH this is priceless! Almost missed it. 🤣
> 
> Again, your lack any understanding to what it takes to make the crap Uber has done as a software piece or even understand they are a taxi company hiding behind the veil of a tech company, a tech company would have found the solution ages ago but they don't hire devs, they hire con artists who have developer exp, this is why they suck.


Too bad there's not been a supply chain shortage of aluminum foil.


----------



## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Heisenburger said:


> Citation?


I just googled every combination I could think of to get even ONE article mentioning this. Not a single thing in 10 searches mentions drivers giving so many cash rides that it affected Ubers business


----------



## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Screwber driver north said:


> You DO realize that this has been a problem for both companies since they were created, no?


Then why is there no mention of it on the inter webs. Or a massive campaign to educate drivers about the dangers of accepting cash rides, or a nationwide sting operation to catch all these cash wielding drivers. This is such clown shit and I can’t keep wasting my day. I have grilling to do and pot to smoke. I bid you a good day sir.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> what are you trying to get at?


Not everyone has the chops to grasp essential concepts bolstered by facts.


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Willy Wonka said:


> You get nothing, you lose, good day sir!


That's what your post reminded me of. Enjoy that greenery. I'm abstaining due to going out driving this afternoon and evening. I don't ever mix the two.


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> Citation?


Me teaching this forum about the profitability of cash rides in 2017, methods and tricks.

The following was a witch hunt in almost every state, it begun in my state, the inspectors were roaming the airports like Dobermans compared to prior years in which they didn't even exist. I can find you a few articles but I'm not googling for you.

Note that cash rides were a problem since before but only SUV's did them, from 17 to 18 even X were doing it if not deactivated drivers or people who didn't even have an uber account.









Black market 'cash rides' fuel concerns across Florida


Investigative reporter Katie LaGrone discovers a black market for car rides that’s risky, dangerous and thriving in the Sunshine State.




www.abcactionnews.com





At this point it was too obvious.









Anyone get busted giving cash "*********" rides?


As Uber and Lyft continue to increase passenger rates while ignoring the driver pay, I've found that many have taken to providing cash rides to cut out the middle-app. Obviously illegal unless the driver is duly registered as a Limo in most states, I hear more and more of it. Has anyone here...




www.uberpeople.net





I guess the news start in 2019 but dig deep in these forums and you will see in the news section a ton of cash ride stings starting 2018 if not 19, just like it took them forever to find out people were creating fake uber accounts, it took them a while to find out cash rides were a problem.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Me teaching this forum about the profitability of cash rides in 2017, methods and tricks.


AKA the old "because I said so" argument.
🤦‍♂️


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> I'll state slowly again for the mentally challenged... LET THOSE WHO WANT TO DO THE CASH RIDES DO THEM. THEY'VE HAD FAIR WARNING. IDGAF what you think Uber's rationale is for incentives combined with variable pricing. The reason is to get more staffing when it's needed and to get people to take rides they wouldn't normally take. YES of course they are also being greedy in the process, thus the whole discussion about take rate.
> 
> I'll state this again slowly too - the REAL issue is drivers aren't paid enough in most markets. The rest is just window dressing (or balsamic vinaigrette, if you prefer)


You be happy sucking on your lollypop like a good little sucker.

How happy did it make you to find out that's how their incentives are getting fuel? Best post ever huh? ROFL

To be of a simple mind... How I miss my childhood.


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> Too bad there's not been a supply chain shortage of aluminum foil.


Their devs are morons called out by tech moguls more than once, this is because they hire con artists, just like lyft, seeking to put tricks in their development and very little emphasis in finding solutions.

How much do you think these companies pay their development? LOL. Con artists aren't talent, they don't cost money.

You label it a conspiracy, that's as far as your brain can interpret such structuring of a company.


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Livekilometers96 said:


> I just googled every combination I could think of to get even ONE article mentioning this. Not a single thing in 10 searches mentions drivers giving so many cash rides that it affected Ubers business
> View attachment 670873


You suck at Googling?


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> ants will find a way to make money and all those little overflows will become cash rides.


Speaking of money making ants:



Heisenburger said:


> Hypothetical scenario and follow up questions:
> 
> *2022 year-end (Q4) closeout promotion:*
> 
> ...


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Livekilometers96 said:


> This is a cute hypothesis but it’s too simple minded. You aren’t grasping the bigger picture. Uber is not stealing from one fare to pay another because it’s inept, it’s doing it because it’s the most efficient way to get the most amount of rides fulfilled.
> 
> Think of it like a restaurant. A soda doesn’t really cost $4, BUT if they only charged $1 then you $15 pasta dish becomes $18. And maybe you don’t eat there because of that. By charging more for salads and sides and drinks, the cost of the main dish stays at a reasonable level for everyone.
> 
> ...


Good analogy. I kinda sorta think this would be a bit obvious, perhaps similar to supermarkets running loss leaders. But a good reminder none-the-less.



Ted Fink said:


> How many of you (UP members) ... IF you were being paid FAIR rates (which most of you currently are not), but if you were, how many of you would give a rats ass what the percentage was. I think we all know corporations are greedy and rip everyone off... that's normal... but at the end of the day if we were being compensated fairly we wouldn't care.


Good point. The counter-point of course is the since drivers are _not_ being paid fairly they start looking around for the reason why, and instantly stumble across a smoking gun when Uber's take rate is examined. For example, if folks were not being properly compensated where you work, one stone that would be turned over would be is the company making enough money to pay us a fair wage?



Ted Fink said:


> So really the issue is that most drivers aren't being paid enough. The fact that uber charges too much and apparently STILL doesn't make a profit, is not really the issue.


Another good point. I would add though that Uber making a profit is a huge issue to me, because I like doing RS part time and want them to stay in business.



Ted Fink said:


> If we're in the matrix, Morpheus says "what if i told you that Uber was going to pay $2.00 a mile UberX in ALL markets, but their take rate is going to be 60%" - does anyone care? Not me!


Ok, now you're just flat out on a roll! +1 for the Matrix reference. Keep it up.


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> Speaking of money making ants:


IF Uber does and (I sure as hell know) starts changing things to woo the drivers, it will be to distract people from the upcoming price fix lawsuit, which has a TON of weight at this point, specially since the gov will also get it's beak wet with a fine, they can pretty much do as they please, after prop 22 I don't think there are any drivers willing to fall for whatever they do.

What I foresee is:

Bids for rides, like they had them in California.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Bids for rides, like they had them in California.


That's the implementation of UF/UP.


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> That's the implementation of UF/UP.


Not even close to what's needed.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> IF Uber does and (I sure as hell know) starts changing things to woo the drivers


 Did you vote and comment on it?









2022 year-end (Q4) closeout promotion: All rides just...


Hypothetical scenario and follow up questions: 2022 year-end (Q4) closeout promotion: All rides just $0.22/minute 100% to drivers Uber sees no 4Q mobility revenue So, let's say starting in October, Uber decides, for PR and driver community goodwill reasons, to outcompete Lyft and bury them...




www.uberpeople.net


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Their devs are morons


Backend Software Engineer - Marketplace Pricing & Incentives


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> How much do you think these companies pay their development? LOL. Con artists aren't talent, they don't cost money.


Staff Software Engineer - Core Storage


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Their devs are morons


Staff Software Engineer


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Livekilometers96 said:


> Think of it like a restaurant. A soda doesn’t really cost $4, BUT if they only charged $1 then you $15 pasta dish becomes $18. And maybe you don’t eat there because of that. By charging more for salads and sides and drinks, the cost of the main dish stays at a reasonable level for everyone.


I get where you're going but it's not the same. Individual drivers are different than a restaurant menu items.

Uber screwing @Nats121 by taking 65% on a trip because I cost them money by Longhauling the **** out of someone still ****s @Nats121.

You could kind of make your case in tip pooling (which I despised when I bartended).

Uber caused a lot more problems for themselves by decoupling rider and driver rates. If they'd left it at the 75/25% split they wouldn't have had AB5/Prop 22 and the hundreds of millions in costs associated with that and similar legislation across the country.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> I get where you're going but it's not the same. Individual drivers are different than a restaurant menu items.


The comparison is to two different trips at two different times that the *same* driver might accept.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

New2This said:


> Uber caused a lot more problems for themselves by decoupling rider and driver rates. If they'd left it at the 75/25% split they wouldn't have had AB5/Prop 22 and the hundreds of millions in costs associated with that and similar legislation across the country.


You are wrong about this. The thing that saved the entire industry is decoupling. There never really was a 75/25 split. Investors subsidized rides until they went public and by that time they had decoupled rates on both apps.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Livekilometers96 said:


> The thing that saved the entire industry is decoupling.


🤣

Think hard, son.

Had Uber not ****ed with the drivers, they would probably be making money today, your so called decoupling gets done for well over 6 years yet only now is when they started seeing revenues because they did it by fueling the driver's pocket, their next step is going to be the same shit as before I pretty much guarantee you that, they will cut the driver and go back to being robbed or quitted on, it's in uber's blood to fail continuously, it's one of life's inevitabilities


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

New2This said:


> Uber screwing @Nats121 by taking 65% on a trip because I cost them money by Longhauling the **** out of someone still ****s @Nats121.


That’s not what’s going on. Nobody gives a **** who you long haul, that’s not the point of decoupling. It’s an average of thousands of rides over the course of time. There’s no person in a control room pointing out long haulers and then selecting a victim to recoup that $$$ from. It’s simply a way to use the information from billions of rides already given to predict who will pay what for which rides and to manage the drivers in a way to create X amount of wait time while maintaining X amount of “take”. Sometimes that requires taking a hit on some rides to create an overall profit. That’s just good business.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Livekilometers96 said:


> Sometimes that requires taking a hit on some rides to create an overall profit.


That's fine for Uber as a company. Not for drivers 

Personally I very rarely took a hit on a trip.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

New2This said:


> I get where you're going but it's not the same. Individual drivers are different than a restaurant menu items.
> 
> Uber screwing @Nats121 by taking 65% on a trip because I cost them money by Longhauling the **** out of someone still ****s @Nats121.
> 
> ...


This whole "decoupling" discussion about Uber using the outrageous cut they grabbed from Driver A to pay Driver B is total bullshit. They implemented "decoupling" to grab more money for THEMSELVES, period.

By decoupling our pay they immediately enabled themselves to steal the drivers' surges. Later on they used even more decoupling to reduce the drivers' share of BASE RATE rides as well.

All you non-Radar drivers should check your rate cards and compare them with the pax rate cards and most of you will discover that your pay rates are 65% or less of the pax rates.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

New2This said:


> Not for drivers


It’s not done to drivers. No matter what you as a driver are still getting your guaranteed rate for miles driven and time taken plus any applicable base fares. In California you are entitled to all that comes with Prop 22 as well. You will never receive less than your contracted rates. It’s Uber that takes the risk and the loss of $$ on the ride. If for ANY reason they can’t recoup it over the course of time, it’s on them. They still owe you your rates.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

New2This said:


> Personally I very rarely took a hit on a trip.


You're a rare bird, an outlier. 

Uber's not stupid. They knew that outliers could find ways to get around decoupling and they very grudgingly dealt with it because they also knew that the vast majority of drivers WOULD take hits on their rides.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> This whole "decoupling" discussion about Uber using the outrageous cut they grabbed from Driver A to pay Driver B is total bullshit. They implemented "decoupling" to grab more money for THEMSELVES, period.
> 
> By decoupling our pay they immediately enabled themselves to steal the drivers' surges. Later on they used even more decoupling to reduce the drivers' share of BASE RATE rides as well.
> 
> All you non-Radar drivers should check your rate cards and compare them with the pax rate cards and most of you will discover that your share of base rate rides is around 65% or even less now.


You are honestly one of the worst analysts I’ve ever encountered in my life. Your inability to see passed yourself and your own personal desires in any way shape or form is beyond comprehension. What’s even worse is the lack of an actual real life examples. You base all of your worthless opinions off what your see here.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> You're a rare bird, an outlier.
> 
> Uber's not stupid. They knew that outliers could find ways to get around decoupling and they very grudgingly dealt with it because they also knew that the vast majority of drivers WOULD take hits on their rides.


What driver is taking a hit on their rides? Have you ever been paid less than the guaranteed minimum detailed in the contract you electronically signed?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> You are honestly one of the worst analysts I’ve ever encountered in my life. Your inability to see passed yourself and your own personal desires in any way shape or form is beyond comprehension.


Your hypocrisy rears its ugly head again.

You're the selfish one who bases everything on what's good for you. You're the one who selfishly supported Uber fornicating the CA drivers out of the major improvements they had because you felt it benefitted YOU and your various schemes including unlimited DFs to go back to the bad old days.

It's also your selfishness that drives you to strongly oppose any type of reform in this business because in all likelihood your various schemes would end with the reforms.

You project your own unethical ways onto others.

You're a complete hypocrite, a liar, and a fraud.

You had a hell of a nerve telling other drivers they weren't "good human beings" because they supposedly "fat shamed" some of their pax while you turn around and support Uber exploiting those very same "human beings".

I challenged you the other day to back up your bold claims that Upfront Pricing "saved Uber" and put them "on the path to profitability" and so far you've failed to back it up.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> What driver is taking a hit on their rides? Have you ever been paid less than the guaranteed minimum detailed in the contract you electronically signed?


No contract I've ever "signed" has ever specified any "minimum" pay rates. Post a screenshot of one your contracts that includes pay rates.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

New2This said:


> If they'd left it at the 75/25% split they wouldn't have had AB5/Prop 22 and the hundreds of millions in costs associated with that and similar legislation across the country.


That may or may not be the case. 

The decoupling and the theft of surge that accompanied it was certainly a catalyst for AB5, but remember that drivers were far from a happy group even before the decoupling. Turnover was 97% before decoupling.

Pay rates were already terrible before the decoupling and demands for govt intervention were already underway. It's likely the decoupling as well as the disappointment over the 180 Days campaign were the "last straws" that sparked AB5.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> No contract I've ever "signed" has ever specified any "minimum" pay rates. Post a screenshot of one your contracts that includes pay rates.


No you signed a contract agree to certain stipulations. Each region or territory is assigned mileage rates and drivers are never paid less than the minimum fare or mileage/time rates posted for that territory.

So technically you are correct they do not put individual rates into the ToS. Because each territory has different rates.

My sincere and humble apologies for not being more specific in explaining the basics of how we get paid.

Nevertheless I have never been forced to pay out of pocket for one of my pax to get a ride. I’ve refunded the fare to a few folks over the years, but that was by choice. Uber though has lost money on many of my rides.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Livekilometers96 said:


> The thing that saved the entire industry is decoupling.


The industry's been saved? News to me. Thank you for the info.



Livekilometers96 said:


> It’s not done to drivers. No matter what you as a driver are still getting your guaranteed rate for miles driven and time taken plus any applicable base fares. In California you are entitled to all that comes with Prop 22 as well. You will never receive less than your contracted rates. It’s Uber that takes the risk and the loss of $$ on the ride. If for ANY reason they can’t recoup it over the course of time, it’s on them. They still owe you your rates.


Ok. Who are you?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

_Tron_ said:


> Who are you?


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

_Tron_ said:


> The industry's been saved? News to me. Thank you for the info.


Like a good Chick Fil A cashier, “My pleasure”


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> No you signed a contract agree to certain stipulations. Each region or territory is assigned mileage rates and drivers are never paid less than the minimum fare or mileage/time rates posted for that territory.
> 
> So technically you are correct they do not put individual rates into the ToS. Because each territory has different rates.
> 
> ...


Yeah, all the drivers hired agents to negotiate their contracts with Uber. The parties came to an agreement on the pay and terms and the drivers signed their contracts. Now the drivers are *****ing about their contracts. Shame on them.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> It's also your selfishness that drives you to strongly oppose any type of reform in this business because in all likelihood your various schemes would end with the reforms.


You crack me up sometimes. I don’t have various schemes that need protection and I certainly wouldn’t expect anything I say here to have the least bit of influence. This is such a tiny community representing less than one tenth of one percent of all drivers and most of us have something wrong with us. I just look at the industry as a whole. I’m capable of understanding what society believes this type of work pays and knowing that we are well above that. You look at what’s best for you and only you and then bash the hand that feeds you. You also live in a fairytale world that makes you somehow think your car (that no longer qualifies for X) is somehow a major component to the situation and this deserving of whatever it is you seem to think you deserve.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> Yeah, all the drivers hired agents to negotiate their contracts with Uber. The parties came to an agreement on the pay and terms and the drivers signed the contracts. Now the drivers are *****ing about the contracts. Shame on them.


That didn’t happen because that’s not how this works. You are offered a set of terms and conditions by the people bankrolling the entire back end of the operation and the ones taking almost ALL the risk. If you find those terms suitable, you are granted access to the platform that they’ve spent BILLIONS of dollars creating and updating over the years. If not, you can **** off and go away. It’s pretty simple. They’ve got plenty of folks apparently, more than they’ve ever had before.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Heisenburger said:


>


Perhaps. I've been able to trace his ancestory on Ancestors-R-us based on a reverse IP address lookup. The trace turns up a distant relative with very long eyebrows from Ancient Rome....


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> You crack me up sometimes. I don’t have various schemes that need protection and I certainly wouldn’t expect anything I say here to have the least bit of influence. This is such a tiny community representing less than one tenth of one percent of all drivers and most of us have something wrong with us. I just look at the industry as a whole. I’m capable of understanding what society believes this type of work pays and knowing that we are well above that. You look at what’s best for you and only you and then bash the hand that feeds you. You also live in a fairytale world that makes you somehow think your car (that no longer qualifies for X) is somehow a major component to the situation and this deserving of whatever it is you seem to think you deserve.


The fact you so vigorously defend the status quo on this website shows you feel that there's at least some influence, otherwise you wouldn't bother.

This site has always had vastly more readers than posters so there's at least some degree of influence. This site often pops up on search engines and undoubtedly Uber monitors this and other sites.

You had and probably still have the unlimited DF scheme and who knows what other schemes or even scams such as location spoofing as well.

From your warped perspective you didn't like the CA drivers having full trip info because it eliminated the large edge your unlimited DFs gave you over the other drivers. It pretty much leveled the playing field and you didn't like that at all. You were perfectly happy to see the vast majority of CA drivers being stuck with pot luck shitty rides paying 1970s taxi rates while you were able to hand select the better surged rides going to the places you wanted to go. That's your selfishness in all its glory.

You've used that "what society believes we should be paid" argument before to justify the terrible pay rates. First of all most of "society" doesn't focus on how much we're paid, and of the ones that do, most of them think we're being paid a lot more than we actually are and express surprise and sometimes disgust when drivers tell them how little we're paid.

You obviously don't give a shit what society thinks we should be paid because you use your schemes to make sure you get paid a lot MORE than the supposedly meager rates you claim society thinks we're worth. More hypocrisy on your part.

As far as the risk and "major component" are concerned the DRIVERS assume almost all the risk and overhead in this arrangement. The drivers can survive without Uber but Uber can't survive without the drivers.


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> From your warped perspective you didn't like the CA drivers having full trip info because it eliminated the large edge your unlimited DFs gave you over the other drivers. It pretty much leveled the playing field and you didn't like that at all. You were perfectly happy to see the vast majority of CA drivers being stuck with pot luck shitty rides paying 1970s taxi rates while you were able to hand select the better surged rides going to the places you wanted to go. That's your selfishness in all its glory.


None of this is true. But it’s fun to watch you pretend you know things…………this is some real manchild clown bullshit here. ****ing pathetic


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## Livekilometers96 (Apr 5, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> The fact you so vigorously defend the status quo on this website shows you feel that there's at least some influence, otherwise you wouldn't bother.


ORRRRRRRRRRRR when I’m not working I like to get high and debate people about things pertaining to my life.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> but Uber can't survive without *the* drivers.


And there it is: *the* drivers.

Not just drivers, but *the* drivers.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> That didn’t happen because that’s not how this works. You are offered a set of terms and conditions by the people bankrolling the entire back end of the operation and the ones taking almost ALL the risk. If you find those terms suitable, you are granted access to the platform that they’ve spent BILLIONS of dollars creating and updating over the years. If not, you can **** off and go away. It’s pretty simple. They’ve got plenty of folks apparently, more than they’ve ever had before.


The DRIVERS have been bankrolling virtually the entire FRONT END of this operation for years and it's the DRIVERS who assume virtually all the risk.

Dara and his henchmen aren't the ones out there risking crashes 24 hours per day, it's the drivers. Dara isn't dealing with drunks and unstable pax, it's the drivers. Dara's not delivering food to dangerous neighborhoods, the Eats drivers are. While Dara and his gang were safely telecommuting during the pandemic it was the drivers risking their safety and even lives transporting pax during the worst of the pandemic.

So save your "poor little Uber" and shill (if you don't like it eff off and quit) routines.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Livekilometers96 said:


> None of this is true.


Your "treasure trove" of posts show otherwise.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> and undoubtedly Uber monitors this


Once again, *there exists no evidence* that it's occurring to any degree in Uber's second decade of operation.

If Uber lackeys are crawling around here lurking and browsing randomly throughout the business day, why would they still be dicking around with all the in-app surveys, post Support event surveys, market research, and Crew and all the other initiatives that Uber pays for, at least in large part (any volunteer components of Crew notwithstanding)?

As someone in management of a publicly traded enterprise, you don't make even one decision based on a bunch of ramblings you might have read on a ****ing fanboy forum where anyone can post whatever nonsense they wish. Your ass would most likely get insta-fired for incompetence.

(I say this as someone who has worked in corporate jobs in the software industry for over a decade.)


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> Once again, *there exists no evidence* that it's occurring to any degree in Uber's second decade of operation.


Ugh no.

I posted a massive exploit in this website alone and it was partially fixed the next Uber app patch, either they are clairvoyant or they do monitor this website, hell you and that other kid are living proof shills roam this place.


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## ALEXM (6 mo ago)

Disgusted Driver said:


> What changes is integrity. If Uber dealt with us in an honest and straightforward fashion I would approach this differently. Now, I'm 2 people. In my 9-5 job I work for a fantastic group of people that operate at the highest degree of integrity and honesty. This allows me to do my job to the fullest without having to keep an eye out for how they are going to screw me. I have complete faith in my leadership and I know I can count on them. This encourages me to do my best for them and makes me want to put the needs of our clients before my workload. Contrast that with Uber. I know that they will screw me when they can, they have done it too many times for me to even try to recount. As a result, I have a very adversarial role with Uber, up to and including having sued them for breach of contract and gotten a settlement because they were wrong. I continue to drive for them because I am able to figure out how to best screw them back to make a decent return on my efforts and resources. I know that Uber does not have my best interests at heart so I have to spend a significant amount of time manipulating the system to the detriment of the riders in order to protect my earnings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is going to be hard for Uber to go back to that 80/20 split! At the moment, it appears to be 50/50. They just released their most recent balance sheet, indicating they are now beginning to generate some profit. It's on-line for the public to see! My current beef (seems to be a new one each week) is with their dispatch. I don"t know if it is done by a live dispatcher or a robot GPS computer but, recently I have been getting too many rides that require me driving 20 minutes to give a rider a 3 minute ride! I have stopped accepting these rides. My acceptance rate has dropped to 90% but, with the price of fuel, itjust doesn't work for me if it happens frequently! I enjoy the gig, most of the time! It is part-time for me, max 30 hrs per week and We have other income. The Myrtle Beach market is very steady for about 9 months eavh year. I enjoy meeting and talking to happy families from all over the world who are here, primarily, for R and R. I find it therapeutic and the tips are appreciated to help make it all worthile. Riders don't want to hear grumbling and complaining so I have developed a little srand-up comedy routine that keeps them laughing! This would be a perfect job if I didn't have to guess how Uber is going use and manipulate me with each ride! The should get that nailed down, treat drivers equitably and fairly every time! That 's my rant today! Peace. Out.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

ALEXM said:


> My acceptance rate has dropped to 90% but, with the price of fuel, itjust doesn't work for me if it happens frequently!


The lower my Acceptance Rate the more money I made.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

ALEXM said:


> It is going to be hard for Uber to go back to that 80/20 split! At the moment, it appears to be 50/50. They just released their most recent balance sheet, indicating they are now beginning to generate some profit. It's on-line for the public to see! My current beef (seems to be a new one each week) is with their dispatch. I don"t know if it is done by a live dispatcher or a robot GPS computer but, recently I have been getting too many rides that require me driving 20 minutes to give a rider a 3 minute ride! I have stopped accepting these rides. My acceptance rate has dropped to 90% but, with the price of fuel, itjust doesn't work for me if it happens frequently! I enjoy the gig, most of the time! It is part-time for me, max 30 hrs per week and We have other income. The Myrtle Beach market is very steady for about 9 months eavh year. I enjoy meeting and talking to happy families from all over the world who are here, primarily, for R and R. I find it therapeutic and the tips are appreciated to help make it all worthile. Riders don't want to hear grumbling and complaining so I have developed a little srand-up comedy routine that keeps them laughing! This would be a perfect job if I didn't have to guess how Uber is going use and manipulate me with each ride! The should get that nailed down, treat drivers equitably and fairly every time! That 's my rant today! Peace. Out.


dont ever accept those rides you are part of the problem. Dont take those rides. You are not paid enough for that ride


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> I posted a massive exploit in this website alone and it was partially fixed the next Uber app patch, either they are clairvoyant or they do monitor this website,


I don't believe this.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Screwber driver north said:


> I posted a massive exploit in this website alone and it was partially fixed the next Uber app patch, either they are clairvoyant or they do monitor this website,


What exploit?


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

180dayofchange said:


> 100*30?
> 3000? how do you get the $17/ trip
> $17 / trip would be 30 trips/month If 500 the monthly insurance.
> help me please I don't get your numbers


Easy
sqrt{\frac{3b^2-8ac}{12a^2}+\frac{1}{3a}\left(\sqrt[3]{\frac{2c^3-9bcd+27b^2e+27ad^2-72ace+\sqrt{\left(2c^3-9bcd+27b^2e+27ad^2-72ace\right)^2-4\left(c^2-3bd+12ae\right)^3}}{2}}+\frac{c^2-3bd+12ae}{\sqrt[3]{\frac{2c^3-9bcd+27b^2e+27ad^2-72ace+\sqrt{\left(2c^3-9bcd+27b^2e+27ad^2-72ace\right)^2-4\left(c^2-3bd+12ae\right)^3}}{2}}}\right)}\right)\pm\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{-4\left(\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{\frac{3b^2-8ac}{12a^2}+\frac{1}{3a}\left(\sqrt[3]{\frac{2c^3-9bcd+27b^2e+27ad^2-72ace+\sqrt{\left(2c^3-9bcd+27b^2e+27ad^2-72ace\right)^2-4\left(c^2-3bd+12ae\right)^3}}{2}}+\frac{c^2-3bd+12ae}{\sqrt[3]{\frac{2c^3-9bcd+27b^2e+27ad^2-72ace+\sqrt{\left(2c^3-9bcd+27b^2e+27ad^2-72ace\right)^2-4\left(c^2-3bd+12ae\right)^3}}{2}}}\right)}\right)^2-\frac{8ac-3b^2}{4a^2}+\frac{\frac{b^3-4abc+8a^2d}{8a^3}}{\frac{1}{2}=17


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## Conporbos (Oct 11, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> The settlement strongly suggests that sufficient agreement was reached as to provide remedy for past wrongs.


False premise. Reading into the symbolism of this act suggests no such thing.


Heisenburger said:


> And there it is: *the* drivers.
> 
> Not just drivers, but *the* drivers.


*The* point?



Heisenburger said:


> Once again, *there exists no evidence* that it's occurring to any degree in Uber's second decade of operation.
> 
> If Uber lackeys are crawling around here lurking and browsing randomly throughout the business day, why would they still be dicking around with all the in-app surveys, post Support event surveys, market research, and Crew and all the other initiatives that Uber pays for, at least in large part (any volunteer com


So you’ve never heard of Uber’s elaborate *greyball* scheme, yet you’re dismissive of the possibility that they’d be monitoring open forums. 




Livekilometers96 said:


> You are offered a set of terms and conditions by the people bankrolling the entire back end of the operation and the ones taking almost ALL the risk.


Ridiculous. You don’t consider driving to be a risk? It’s not only a financial risk but a risk to your life. The risk goes even higher depending on the market you drive in. There’s risk from unverified passengers sitting behind you. You’re calling other people clowns, yet that’s the most idiotic statement I’ve read in this entire thread.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> they do monitor this website, hell you and that other kid are living proof shills roam this place.


Of course they monitor this site. Those who think they don’t are naive or possibly a shill. Uber could also be the new owners of this site. With rates plummeting and so many crap rides and UE orders, there’s a lot of people on this site defending Uber.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> Once again, *there exists no evidence* that it's occurring to any degree in Uber's second decade of operation.
> 
> If Uber lackeys are crawling around here lurking and browsing randomly throughout the business day, why would they still be dicking around with all the in-app surveys, post Support event surveys, market research, and Crew and all the other initiatives that Uber pays for, at least in large part (any volunteer components of Crew notwithstanding)?
> 
> ...


I don't need smoking gun evidence, common sense is more than enough.

Uber didn't get to where they are by being stupid, and they'd have to be stupid to not monitor driver sites like this one.

Additionally, Uber is one of the largest snoops in the world, spying on their pax, their drivers, their competitors, and even the govt.

Put it all together and there's no doubt they monitor sites like this one.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

New2This said:


> What exploit?


Destination open.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Invisible said:


> Of course they monitor this site. Those who think they don’t are naive or possibly a shill. Uber could also be the new owners of this site. With rates plummeting and so many crap rides and UE orders, there’s a lot of people on this site defending Uber.


I already tracked the owners, they are Canadian.





__





Home







www.torstar.com





That's their parent company.

They aren't linked to Uber, in fact they seem to hate Uber.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> I already tracked the owners, they are Canadian.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting, thanks. I like Canadians. Anyone who dislikes Uber must be decent. 

You have the best profile name. That’s the name i want my rideshare company to be once I win the lotto.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Put it all together and there's no doubt they monitor sites like this one.


I'm from Missouri.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Conporbos said:


> False premise. Reading into the symbolism of this act suggests no such thing.
> 
> 
> *The* point?
> ...


Oh hey @Nats121 ! 👋


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## CHINO 55 (Nov 20, 2018)

Livekilometers96 said:


> This is a cute hypothesis but it’s too simple minded. You aren’t grasping the bigger picture. Uber is not stealing from one fare to pay another because it’s inept, it’s doing it because it’s the most efficient way to get the most amount of rides fulfilled.
> 
> Think of it like a restaurant. A soda doesn’t really cost $4, BUT if they only charged $1 then you $15 pasta dish becomes $18. And maybe you don’t eat there because of that. By charging more for salads and sides and drinks, the cost of the main dish stays at a reasonable level for everyone.
> 
> ...


Great Break down in the saga "How Uber makes its bread". I was enjoying the urinating match between Disgusted and Heisenburger until your fan blew it all away. So instead of being reactive, are there any Pro-active messages and ways to make all of us do better, including the Uber?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

CHINO 55 said:


> Great Break down in the saga "How Uber makes its bread".


Oh hey again


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## Conporbos (Oct 11, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> Oh hey @Nats121 ! 👋


Oh, hey Dara.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

#1husler said:


> Well, he's super polite, cares so much about how my day's going...assures me that my matter is the right hands (his hands) and he will competently resolve them all ASAP so...why not?


Yeah, sometimes when I'm lonely or depressed I ask support a question about rates or a random cancel fee. 

I always get such a warm response it makes me feel loved. 

Cheaper than Prozac & and no sexual performance side effects!


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> No, it's because it's more than enough for a "middleman" to be grabbing.
> 
> Meanwhile, Uber has NEVER tried to justify taking more. Instead they've always denied taking more than that.


I remember way back when, I wanna say in 2016ish, they experimented with going to 30% in some markets. Someone at Uber was asked why, and the response was, "Because we can."


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> I'm from Missouri.


I’m sorry to hear that. That explains a lot. But I thought in another post, you said you were in GA


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## Conporbos (Oct 11, 2017)

Invisible said:


> I’m sorry to hear that. That explains a lot. But I thought in another post, you said you were in GA


The frequent state changes make sense since he’s on the run in his mobile meth lab.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Boca Ratman said:


> I remember way back when, I wanna say in 2016ish, they experimented with going to 30% in some markets. Someone at Uber was asked why, and the response was, "Because we can."


That "because we can" comment that was made by one of the top executives at Uber was one of the very few truthful comments to ever come out of that company.

The company hurriedly "disowned" the comment by saying it "doesn't represent our values".

It perfectly represents their "values".


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Invisible said:


> I’m sorry to hear that. That explains a lot.


Did you read the whole page of the link?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> Yeah, sometimes when I'm lonely or depressed I ask support a question about rates or a random cancel fee.


🤫🤫🤫 Sharing trade secrets and hacks is severely frowned upon here!


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Did you read the whole page of the link?


No, can you give me Cliff Notes version? I just read enough to know that Uber once again has no problem screwing drivers over.


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## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

ALEXM said:


> It is going to be hard for Uber to go back to that 80/20 split! At the moment, it appears to be 50/50. They just released their most recent balance sheet, indicating they are now beginning to generate some profit.


Their income statement says that they lost $700 million. That is worldwide, in North America they are probably making money


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## SassyDriver (9 mo ago)

Dara is laying the blame for their variable commission rate take from each ride on insurance costs? R U kidding me? Uber already requires specific age of cars. This age of car typically means a financed vehicle, a financed vehicle in most states requires specific personal vehicle insurance coverages, using the vehicle for rideshare requires added TNC insurance coverage which only kicks in if:
A) the vehicle was in use for a bona fide ride share and,
B) was being driven by the covered licensed driver and,
C) the deductible for the rideshare coverage has been met.
Keep in mind that in order to drive we have to agree to that non arbitration statement.
Last time I read the Insurance garbledygook for Uber I recall the driver's deductible was $1500.00 per accident.
Uber's insurance ONLY covers while there is a rider in the car and the app is actively tracking that ride.
Uber offers drivers the ability to ADD extra insurance to cover between rider occupancy if we agreed to pay .04 per mile of covered rides.
Each driver's personal insurance rate will vary obviously according to the car, driver age, dvm record, credit score, previous accidents, payment history, risk category and state requirements. Any smart driver doing rideshare will insure their vehicle to the maximum and add the TNC coverage. So, we already pay a good chunk of our income to an insurance company and now Dara expects drivers to absorb a variable insurance PER ride?
I call FOUL!
If you go to any insurance company you get better rates per vehicle if you insure more than one vehicle. Is Dara using an insurance company that does not offer a fleet rate?
No, sorry Dara, your explanation of the reason Uber takes varying commission does not wash!


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## SassyDriver (9 mo ago)

W00dbutcher said:


> I got ya...
> View attachment 670522


Clearly that driver needs a Samsung Galaxy Z Fold3! If that driver cannot manage multiple apps on one phone how the heck do they manage a multi lane highway?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

SassyDriver said:


> Dara is laying the blame for their variable commission rate take from each ride on insurance costs? R U kidding me? Uber already requires specific age of cars. This age of car typically means a financed vehicle, a financed vehicle in most states requires specific personal vehicle insurance coverages, using the vehicle for rideshare requires added TNC insurance coverage which only kicks in if:
> A) the vehicle was in use for a bona fide ride share and,
> B) was being driven by the covered licensed driver and,
> C) the deductible for the rideshare coverage has been met.
> ...


❌❌❌



raiwore said:


> anyone calling it ride"share" is perpetuating the fraud
> no ones sharing anything its rides for hire a taxicab app
> 
> insurance?
> ...


❌❌❌


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

raiwore said:


> if about 1000 drivers sign up daily
> and youre in a big market
> Id say theres 50-100 1st day drivers EVERYDAY in your market
> in a small market
> ...


So, to summarize:

_Look here guys, here's a few numbers that I just pulled out of my rectal cavity! Have a sniff!_


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Invisible said:


> No, can you give me Cliff Notes version?


Negative.


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## Pancho 0908 (Nov 15, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> The fact you so vigorously defend the status quo on this website shows you feel that there's at least some influence, otherwise you wouldn't bother.
> 
> This site has always had vastly more readers than posters so there's at least some degree of influence. This site often pops up on search engines and undoubtedly Uber monitors this and other sites.
> 
> ...


Better said impossible! I'm pretty sure this **********'s got a scheme to get paid more cause otherwise he wouldn't even bother writing such as shitty statement. Shame on him!😡🤬


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

rayejaye said:


> 50,000 new drivers a month look it up


Worldwide? US only? C'mon man! Share your source.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

ALEXM said:


> It is going to be hard for Uber to go back to that 80/20 split! At the moment, it appears to be 50/50. They just released their most recent balance sheet, indicating they are now beginning to generate some profit. It's on-line for the public to see! My current beef (seems to be a new one each week) is with their dispatch. I don"t know if it is done by a live dispatcher or a robot GPS computer but, recently I have been getting too many rides that require me driving 20 minutes to give a rider a 3 minute ride! I have stopped accepting these rides. My acceptance rate has dropped to 90% but, with the price of fuel, itjust doesn't work for me if it happens frequently! I enjoy the gig, most of the time! It is part-time for me, max 30 hrs per week and We have other income. The Myrtle Beach market is very steady for about 9 months eavh year. I enjoy meeting and talking to happy families from all over the world who are here, primarily, for R and R. I find it therapeutic and the tips are appreciated to help make it all worthile. Riders don't want to hear grumbling and complaining so I have developed a little srand-up comedy routine that keeps them laughing! This would be a perfect job if I didn't have to guess how Uber is going use and manipulate me with each ride! The should get that nailed down, treat drivers equitably and fairly every time! That 's my rant today! Peace. Out.


It's nice to hear it and I'm glad you are still enjoying conversing with passengers. I totally agree, passengers almost never want to hear the truth, they want to here that things are going great, you are making money and you are excited to have them in the car. If you make them laugh, even better. My sort of humor doesn't seem to go over well so I keep it to a minimum. Each market is different, even in different areas of said market. I do really well when I stick as close as I can to downtown Raleigh. I rarely get 15 minute pickups and I typically reject anything more than 3 miles or 6 minutes away unless the upfront price I see has that factored in. If they aren't paying for your dead miles to the pax then you need to try to minimize them. It is automated dispatch by algorithm, they do millions of rides a day, would never work with humans dispatching. So, don't worry about acceptance rate, the only person guarding your wallet is you.

As far as the split goes, they could go back to 80/20 or 75/25 IF they simplified dramatically. Get rid of all of the bonuses and incentives, charge decent rates to begin with. You will get a few less passengers, the more price sensitive ones will beg off but you'll have so much less to deal with in terms of setting promotions, etc... (how many people working in the home office, code that has to support it, questions, ...) and then miracle of miracles, driver and Uber interests would be aligned. The more we make, the more they do and vice versa.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> but you'll have so much less to deal with in terms of setting promotions


I'm highly certain that, just like UF/UP itself, it's the machines ("the algorithm") that are also determining incentives like surge, boost, *and* even quest. I suspect that there's extremely little human second guessing or decision making occurring with these things given their frequencies.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

80% 😆 🤣 😂 he's a frucking liar.

I did an uber pet run the other day. 

Pax pays $5.00 fee. I got 3.40 
That's a 32/68 split. 

Sign up for Hourly it tell you right there you pay a 28% service fee.










Prior to upfront fares. The per mile rate was .91 . Pax app says Pax rates are $1.34 /mile. 68/ 32


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> I'm highly certain that, just like UF/UP itself, it's the machines ("the algorithm") that are also determining incentives like surge, boost, *and* even quest. I suspect that there's extremely little human second guessing or decision making occurring with these things given their frequencies.


Don't know about where you are but the promos in my area are highly sensitive to one off events. Things like sports events, concerts, back to school weekend. etc... frequently com with incentives. While something like NYE or marketshare competition with Lyft is easy to program in, at the very least, they need someone regional to make judgements about what events to add to the incentives algorithm and probably assign them some weight. Thus, there needs ot be some human intervention to make it work. It might only be 15 minutes per region but it's still something that needs to be dealt with and it's going to be wrong from time to time. Then there's the code that has to be built into the app and maintained as well as more Rohit's to mismanage help calls about it. Incentives also allows those of us who are game players to look for loopholes and exploits in the incentive system. It would be a bold experiment but I really believe most drivers would be better off if they did away with them all and just charged higher rates and split it 25/75. 

My two cents which is worth at least what the reader paid for it.


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