# You are a business owner NOT an employee



## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

A truly magisterial post on the subject.


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## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

Magisterial... What a great word lol


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

When profit or turn over is so low, hourly is usually the way to look at it especially for those that do this as a part time suppliment.


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## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

Even though you only planned on doing this part time you are still a business owner and cannot think hourly wage because it's going to cause nothing but heartache for you. Like I said run the business for a quarter check your profit loss statements and see if it's worth your time if it isn't then you need to quit.


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

I respectfully disagreement about the ownership part. If I was the business owner, the rates would be much higher then the measly .80/90cents/mile etc. 
I still wonder why anyone would drive at 30cents/mile in Detroit. That one still cracks me up. The drivers are far from being the business owner. Uber can activate anyone without cause or explanation. That's not ownership I'm sorry to say.


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

A lot of people that enter Uber as a driver come from an employee background and aren't initially geared to run their own business. Though it's fair to say if you invest 12 hours and the return is $120 without deducting any expenses, this won't look good at the quarter anyway.


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## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

To the driver talking about people in Detroit willing to drive for $0.30 a mile he's right they are insane because even the federal government thinks that it cost $0.54 a mile to operate a vehicle. And to the other fellow talking about $120 return for 12 hours before expenses this is what a profit loss statement is for your going to show a very very small profit or possibly a lot and at that point you need to decide whether or not to continue with this business


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## EcoboostMKS (Nov 6, 2015)

You're confusing business owner with independent contractor. You own nothing but your car and phone.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Actually if you're giving uber a cut

You're part of a franchisee, not truly a business owner

A true business owner gets to set the rates

A franchisee owner has to abide by the real owners' rates and give them a cut--in return, the real owner provides the franchisee materials to generate business (the app and the little stickers you guys love or hate) and is suppose to help you be successful while representing their brand.


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## UTX1 (Dec 7, 2015)

Gary, all of that is true. Big picture shows more of the story and these are standards
in any business. One thing that is difficult for many folks to break away from though
is the rate-per-hour measurement. I think it could be because somewhere in the back
of our thoughts, we all know that the only thing we have is time on earth. We can't take
any of the things with us when we go. How we spend that time and what it's worth
when we monetize our waking hours seems to take on an sense of importance.

The benefit of looking at a for-profit business activity on a QTR or annual basis does
provide a more balanced account of profitability, or lack thereof and I like to look at
it that way too. It's a matter of having some patience. The hourly, daily or weekly
measurements of income are often too sporadic and inconsistent to really see how
a venture is truly performing. I'm starting to sound like one of my economics professors
and beginning to even bore the sh*t out of myself. I'll leave it there. I like your post.


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## toi (Sep 8, 2014)

at these rates business owner would be a highly ambitious term.
lets settle for either charity or non profit organization owner or something.


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## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

If the rates are too low for you you have 2 choices... Try to renegotiate or quit. Stop whining and do one Or the other. Sorry so blunt. Not saying you are whining toi but a lot of other people are.


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


Actually I used to have a restaurant. And I certainly looked at sales and cost of labor by the hour, day, week and month.

Uber is particularly the kind of business that requires hourly sales (fares) per hour as a metric to measure productivity and efficiency. I also make sure I get every possible mile out of each gallon, and every dead mile is matched by one or more billable miles.

A business owner should be obsessed over these details, not indifferent. While there is a case to be made for the law of averages, if you don't have clear metrics to measure success you can't push yourself to do better.


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## UTX1 (Dec 7, 2015)

uber, uber blah, blah.....I think toi has a cool avitar. 
Very futuristic !


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


If hours are immaterial why point out to us that you do this in your "spare time"? It shouldn't matter if you are doing this 1 hour or 100 hours a week by your logic.

If my goal is to have $1000 a week profit I'd rather "run a business" that I only have to put in 40 hours a week to do that than one I have to put in 120. But I guess that's just me.


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

Just another newbie op trying to tell us stuff we already know. I like toi's comment about driving for charity. To the OP: just how can you negotiate rates with uber? hahaha that's good for a chuckle


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Uber uses predatory tactics towards people needing money such as the post after Walmart job cuts coupled with wild accusations of "good money" and healthy incentives to get you onboard.

During the honeymoon period it's usually an ok return so most people make life changing decisions by steering time away from other commitments to increase the revenue from Uber, then as time goes on the hours are constantly increasing to maintain the same level or dwindling return ultimately creating a situation that is difficult to leave. Existing ties with past commitments are usually severed when investing more time with Uber.

With online time increasing for most, just to get a return that covers the short term expenses. It's near impossible to jump ship as gaining monetary savings while driving Uber is rather fictitious as the maintenance and other expenses start to catch up. With the small amount of time remaining after rest and other daily responsibilities it leaves little time and resources to successfully pursue another avenue.

A simple cycle that Uber count on to keep you driving for them, a viscous rut thats hard to break free of.

(Little tired so I'll admit I could have worded it better but hopefully you get the idea)


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## joeactuary (Oct 8, 2015)

I find it amusing that we always bring up Detroit when talking about low uber rates. Averaging 2 minutes a mile, Detroit is actually 90 cents a mile. Yes, still awfull but that's only 9 cents less than Atlanta for example. Orlando is 87 cents a mile. So next time, we should bring up Orlando as the postercity for low rates! Wondering what city has the lowest rate at two minutes a mile?


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## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

You say that their tactics are predatory but they just pray on most people's greed. Targeting the greedy is not a predatory tactic it is smart business for most businesses and you need to look at this from your own best interest not their best interest. If someone appeals to your greed you need to think long and hard about what it is you're doing because read as a motivation will almost always leave one person with the short end of the stick. If you burn bridges to drive and come short on other commitments then this is your own fault because you could have done the research


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

garyk said:


> they just pray on


You got it


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


My absolute one thing I hate is when people claim this was never intended to be a full time deal. Well that's exactly what it turned into and that's exactly what Uber wants.

But other than that, I've owned and ran my own business since I was 20. Other than working whenever you want Uber is NOTHING like owning your own business.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Actually if you're giving uber a cut
> 
> You're part of a franchisee, not truly a business owner
> 
> ...


Franchisee's have to buy their franchise. Uber drivers don't pay a franchisee fee (not yet anyway). Also, franchisees are business owners and many don't get to set their own rates (prices) or are limited to a range of prices. Think a subway shop owner can charge $20 for a tuna sub?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Lando74 said:


> Actually I used to have a restaurant. And I certainly looked at sales and cost of labor by the hour, day, week and month.
> 
> Uber is particularly the kind of business that requires hourly sales (fares) per hour as a metric to measure productivity and efficiency. I also make sure I get every possible mile out of each gallon, and every dead mile is matched by one or more billable miles.
> 
> A business owner should be obsessed over these details, not indifferent. While there is a case to be made for the law of averages, if you don't have clear metrics to measure success you can't push yourself to do better.


Exactly what I was going to post. Hourly analysis is a good performance metric. I use two metrics to track how I'm doing - revenue per hour and revenue per mile.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

sidewazzz said:


> My absolute one thing I hate is when people claim this was never intended to be a full time deal. Well that's exactly what it turned into and that's exactly what Uber wants.


*Is Uber Wagging the Dog With Its Moonlighting Drivers?*
_Uber has chosen not to present its driver data in a way that makes clear what proportion of its services are provided by drivers working over 30 hours per week, or by those working fewer than 10. _
_








Notice that the much-touted majority of Uber drivers working very few hours per week are performing far less than the majority of the work. And the seemingly marginal group of full-time drivers actually are doing about half the work, far more than those driving the fewest hours. _


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> Franchisee's have to buy their franchise. Uber drivers don't pay a franchisee fee (not yet anyway). Also, franchisees are business owners and many don't get to set their own rates (prices) or a limited to a range of prices. Think a subway shop owner can charge $20 for a tuna sub?


Subway in the suburbs $7.00 Subway in the city $8.95

Price range is fine, but imagine if Subway emailed stores 12 hours ahead of notice that all subs were to be sold at $2.00 while the combined ingredients cost $1.97 saying lower prices will see increased demand and higher earnings.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

sidewazzz said:


> My absolute one thing I hate is when people claim this was never intended to be a full time deal. Well that's exactly what it turned into and that's exactly what Uber wants.
> 
> But other than that, I've owned and ran my own business since I was 20. Other than working whenever you want Uber is NOTHING like owning your own business.


"Uber is NOTHING like owning your own business." That's right! Other businesses you actually have a chance to make make money!


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> *Is Uber Wagging the Dog With Its Moonlighting Drivers?*
> _Uber has chosen not to present its driver data in a way that makes clear what proportion of its services are provided by drivers working over 30 hours per week, or by those working fewer than 10.
> View attachment 29759
> 
> Notice that the much-touted majority of Uber drivers working very few hours per week are performing far less than the majority of the work. And the seemingly marginal group of full-time drivers actually are doing about half the work, far more than those driving the fewest hours. _


19% of the workforce make up for nearly 50% of the business.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> Franchisee's have to buy their franchise. Uber drivers don't pay a franchisee fee (not yet anyway). Also, franchisees are business owners and many don't get to set their own rates (prices) or are limited to a range of prices. Think a subway shop owner can charge $20 for a tuna sub?


^^^
Haha @ tuna sub. 
Just made me think of a funny. 
Spell tunasub backwards.


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## UTX1 (Dec 7, 2015)

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Haha @ tuna sub.
> Just made me think of a funny.
> Spell tunasub backwards.


Oh my. I would be terribly offended, but that's not possible.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


^^^
Uber is an employer / employee relationship that just happens to have variable work schedules built into the model.
In actual reality, there is no such thing as a "partnership" in the structure of Uber and its drivers. 
And forget about the terminology "independent contractor" because it doesn't exist in Uber's lexicon.... it's just a polite euphemism that Uber likes to throw around in order to make prospective or new drivers feel good about themselves having no more independence than a flexible work schedule. 
When they can dismiss you at will and without cause or review, sorry.... but you're an employee.... and a worthless one at that, irrespective of what kind of an investment that you made in order to perform your duties.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> 1) Franchisee's have to buy their franchise. 2) Uber drivers don't pay a franchisee fee (not yet anyway). 3) Also, franchisees are business owners and many don't get to set their own rates (prices) or are limited to a range of prices. Think a subway shop owner can charge $20 for a tuna sub?


1) franchisees have to BUY their franchise e.g. the restaurant.. it has to reflect what the owner wants. don't you have to buy your car? maybe you already have one and passes muster (most ideal...a franchise applicant could already own a building that used to house a restaurant). if you don't, then uber will help you get one (uber lease program?) or you'd have to get a car, in order to drive for uber and it has to be to UBER'S standard.

2) franchisee fee (from what I could see) is a cut every month. the cut was never the same, it was a portion of the sales. maybe that's not how franchisees you're familiar with works...but the franchisees that I saw (like, I actually saw the incoming and outgoings of their bank accounts and it was more then one franchisee group...e.g. one sold fast food...another was dessert based...etc etc)...that was how it worked. Don't you pay a portion of what you make to UBER? oh no, sorry, they don't trust you enough. they actually control all of the cashflow and give back to you your cut, but they still take their cut aka fee.

ummm

3) is exactly what I was talking about, you all being franchisee more then business owner, business owner. because you don't get to say a ride is $20/mile. just like a subway shop owner (who is a part of franchise, subway right? the biggest in the world) doesn't get to charge $20/sub, to your point, backing mine, so i'm not sure why its in here but


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Ya you got it wrong bud. A business owner can change his business name, hire and fire employees, must pay workers comp for the employees and pay taxes under their business name and get insurance on many different levels under their name that coincides with the business. An owner may obtain a 1-800 number and register with Google Business and be listed as such. In addition, file for a business license with their local county and obtain all permits to conduct that business. Not sure what school of business you attended but I'm guessing none.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

BurgerTiime said:


> Ya you got it wrong bud. A business owner can change his business name, hire and fire employees, must pay workers comp for the employees and pay taxes under their business name and get insurance on many different levels under their name that coincides with the business. An owner may obtain a 1-800 number and register with Google Business and be listed as such. In addition, file for a business license with their local county and obtain all permits to conduct that business. Not sure what school of business you attended but I'm guessing none.


Add to this, a true business has worth, it can be bought and sold. Try selling your ubering job.


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## UTX1 (Dec 7, 2015)

observer said:


> Add to this, a true business has worth, it can be bought and sold. *Try selling your ubering job*.


I try to sell it every other day. Nobody wants to buy it.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Years ago I used to deliver magazines and newspapers. I was a contractor and had accounts with different businesses. If I wanted to take a day off or was sick I could subcontract the work out to whoever I wanted. As long as it gone done (the items were delivered) I had complete control over who actually did the labor. In fact, I actually subcontracted from other contractors for accounts they had. 

Basically we all tried to have all the deliveries in the same area of town on the same day. So it made sense sometimes to have someone else run a magazine going to an area you weren't going to even if by having someone else doing it you didn't make much profit.

To me the very essence of being a contractor is you should only need to get the job done. You shouldn't HAVE to do it yourself. 

I know there are city licenses and so on, which makes this more difficult, but it's never been possible, even in places where uber simply is illegal.

They want absolute control over you.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Uber has complete and total control over every part of the job. They can change anything and everything at any time without any input of us. Therefore we are employees.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Uber has complete and total control over every part of the job.


*Ongoing Poll | Do Uber & Lyft Exercise Excessive Control Over IC Drivers.*


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Uber has complete and total control over every part of the job. They can change anything and everything at any time without any input of us. Therefore we are employees.


^^^
Actually it's worse than being an employee.... more like 'at-will' or 'casual labor' that are picked up either at the back door of some Department of Employment offices (Unemployment office) or near a driveway at Home Depot where they don't know where they're going, just something like dry wall or cement and have to dead-head it back home at their own expense. 
If they are lucky, whoever hired them will drop them off at the nearest bus stop and be left to their own devices.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

sellkatsell44 said:


> 1) franchisees have to BUY their franchise e.g. the restaurant.. it has to reflect what the owner wants. don't you have to buy your car? maybe you already have one and passes muster (most ideal...a franchise applicant could already own a building that used to house a restaurant). if you don't, then uber will help you get one (uber lease program?) or you'd have to get a car, in order to drive for uber and it has to be to UBER'S standard.
> 
> 2) franchisee fee (from what I could see) is a cut every month. the cut was never the same, it was a portion of the sales. maybe that's not how franchisees you're familiar with works...but the franchisees that I saw (like, I actually saw the incoming and outgoings of their bank accounts and it was more then one franchisee group...e.g. one sold fast food...another was dessert based...etc etc)...that was how it worked. Don't you pay a portion of what you make to UBER? oh no, sorry, they don't trust you enough. they actually control all of the cashflow and give back to you your cut, but they still take their cut aka fee.
> 
> ...


You said "You're part of a franchisee, not truly a business owner" *My point is that a franchisee owner is a true business owner. *I don't agree with you that Uber drivers are franchisee owners but whatever you call them Uber drivers are 100% true business owners. At least as far as the IRS is concerned, for now anyway!


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## g00r (Mar 10, 2015)

After reading this thread, I have two things to say.
1. Now I want a Subway double choc cookie
2. I vote 'Yes' to your running a business.
Uber likes to consider themselves as a 'lead generation company'. You pay them a ~20% referral fee for each customer you get.
Okay, so pay Uber their 20% for this new customer, now what are you going to do with them? 
Make a one time sale and move on? Or try and retain them for private trips.
When I drove, I used to hand out business cards







People could go to the address and see where I was and whether it was worth calling or not.
Separate phone number, if it was turn on, I was available.
Many of you in the states run Uber and Lyft, aren't you then a business owner? Cause now you've got multiple leads for customers.
Earn more and start double charging for you time, (start carrying freight).
Maybe I'll start a thread, 'you SHOULD be an employee instead, if you're not up for running a business'


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

garyk said:


> If the rates are too low for you you have 2 choices... Try to renegotiate or quit. Stop whining and do one Or the other. Sorry so blunt. Not saying you are whining toi but a lot of other people are.


I understand what you are saying. But besides Drivers, we are also at the forefront of the OnDemand 1099 Workforce. We are actually helping to define what OnDemand Workers are and how Apps/Companies are and will be able to use this workforce.

So, the old adage of "Just quit", is too simplistic. And just throwing out the word "Whining" is not looking at the big picture.

While Uber Drivers should be business owners as Drivers, they/we are not. We are closer to employees than Independent Contractors.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Uber is an employer / employee relationship that just happens to have variable work schedules built into the model.
> In actual reality, there is no such thing as a "partnership" in the structure of Uber and its drivers.
> And forget about the terminology "independent contractor" because it doesn't exist in Uber's lexicon.... it's just a polite euphemism that Uber likes to throw around in order to make prospective or new drivers feel good about themselves having no more independence than a flexible work schedule.
> When they can dismiss you at will and without cause or review, sorry.... but you're an employee.... and a worthless one at that, irrespective of what kind of an investment that you made in order to perform your duties.


Yup - really employees with extremely flexible schedules.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

g00r said:


> After reading this thread, I have two things to say.
> 1. Now I want a Subway double choc cookie
> 2. I vote 'Yes' to your running a business.
> Uber likes to consider themselves as a 'lead generation company'. You pay them a ~20% referral fee for each customer you get.
> ...


And if you do that and uber finds out you'll be fired. Oh, sorry. DEACTIVATED.


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## Cocobird (Dec 9, 2015)

garyk said:


> Even though you only planned on doing this part time you are still a business owner and cannot think hourly wage because it's going to cause nothing but heartache for you. Like I said run the business for a quarter check your profit loss statements and see if it's worth your time if it isn't then you need to quit.


You are not a business owner. You are a silent "partner" and you're more silent than partner.
Uber treats you like an employee even giving you an "hourly garuntee" which if Uber is saying hourly, why shouldn't the drivers look at it as hourly?


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## USArmy31B30 (Oct 30, 2015)

I'm a business owner and I'm the boss. The boss wants to know how much he makes per hour because that's how he operates. So I gotta do what the boss wants and find out how much he makes per hour EVERYDAY... 

Just like others mentioned above, I also track days, weeks, months, quarterly, semi and annual earnings. That's just how I do business and others may disagree but I wanted to track down my expenses and earnings while it's still fresh on my mind so I'm not forgetting anything (old man syndrome lol). I find it a lot easier to add up the numbers later when it was broken down and tracked on a daily bases...


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

I just want to point out the generational range of drivers on this forum. I'm 32. I used Uber as a buffer to change my career path. I love how entitled 40, 50, 60 year olds are on here. Its no wonder the baby boomer generation were such sellouts. I'm glad I live in a more informed society. I now make a six figure salary and am self employed. Uber wasn't great money but it definitely covered a few things I needed it to. Rideshares are not a source of long term full time employment. It's a spare time, make a few bucks instead of playing your Xbox gig. If you're reading this and getting upset I'd suggest putting a closer lense on your own life and reassessing what it is you're actually doing with it.

Minimum wage employees operate with a minimum wage mindset, and respond with the same plebeian mindset. I could care less how much I make per hour, because I love what I do and I live comfortably. If you're operating as an Uber driver and can't turn a profit get a different job. End of story. Uber doesn't owe it's drivers a damn thing. Entitled whiners.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

JaredJ said:


> I just want to point out the generational range of drivers on this forum. I'm 32. I used Uber as a buffer to change my career path. I love how entitled 40, 50, 60 year olds are on here. Its no wonder the baby boomer generation were such sellouts. I'm glad I live in a more informed society. I now make a six figure salary and am self employed. Uber wasn't great money but it definitely covered a few things I needed it to. Rideshares are not a source of long term full time employment. It's a spare time, make a few bucks instead of playing your Xbox gig. If you're reading this and getting upset I'd suggest putting a closer lense on your own life and reassessing what it is you're actually doing with it.
> 
> Minimum wage employees operate with a minimum wage mindset, and respond with the same plebeian mindset. I could care less how much I make per hour, because I love what I do and I live comfortably. If you're operating as an Uber driver and can't turn a profit get a different job. End of story. Uber doesn't owe it's drivers a damn thing. Entitled whiners.


You do realise 40 and 50 year Olds are NOT baby boomers?

Millenials seem pretty entitled to me. At least the one who use Uber. Of course that's not a random sample.


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You do realise 40 and 50 year Olds are NOT baby boomers?
> 
> Millenials seem pretty entitled to me. At least the one who use Uber. Of course that's not a random sample.


Every generation has entitled whiners. How do you think you looked in your 20's to an elder? It has a lot more to do with youth being wasted on the young and the inherited view of being a driver as a menial job. If you want respect, do more.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

JaredJ said:


> Every generation has entitled whiners. How do you think you looked in your 20's to an elder? It has a lot more to do with youth being wasted on the young and the inherited view of being a driver as a menial job. If you want respect, do more.


For part of my 20s I was working 100+ hours a week. The other part I was working about 40 and going to school full time. I did own cars from the time I was 22 (pretty much a necessity in Houston). Paid cash for them. I think the most expensive was $700. And worked on them myself. Before that I rode a bike.

My entertainment was the $1 movies and the park. I didn't own a TV. I don't drink. No bar hopping or restaurants.

I don't think my elders thought of me as entitled.

I think my elders probably think the same of the Millenials who use Uber regularly as I do.


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## JasonB (Jan 12, 2016)

garyk said:


> Targeting the greedy is not a predatory tactic it is smart business for most businesses and you need to look at this from your own best interest not their best interest.


Targeting the greedy? So we, as drivers, looking to make a few extra bucks by providing a valuable, useful service with somewhat 'flexible' work hours, are greedy?

What makes us greedy... the fact that some drivers fell for the exaggerated income claims propagated by Uber Corporate on a daily basis?

Perhaps others are greedy because they are trying to put food on the table to feed their children?

You would make an excellent addition to the Uber Public Relations team... if you aren't already on their payroll.


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## JasonB (Jan 12, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> My entertainment was the $1 movies and the park. I didn't own a TV. I don't drink. No bar hopping or restaurants.


$1 movies and walks in the park?

How *dare* you...

It's evident that if you just hadn't been so damn greedy, you may have never fallen prey to the lure of Uber's Siren Song.


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## renod babek (Feb 10, 2016)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


If Uber was only set up as you say to put your spare time to good use (by the way I applaud!)
How come in London and Cities of the UK. Uber is offering in excess off £700 for incentives to drive full time for them?(click on London forum titled;
"3 new suckers" (posted by Hogster.) 
This contradicts your point entirely as it's an ad by Uber! 
It would not be financially viable for most drivers in London to do as you do, insurance (Hire&reward) phv plate for vehicle. PhD badge. Car has to be under a certain age to meet tfl requirements.
There are a lot of naive people out there& unfortunately they're being sold into a concept which is not the true picture.
It's not really fair to say its their own business as they have no control over the price structuring policies. But at the end of the day.It is what it is.
Adios amoeba!


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## Lyftonly (Nov 12, 2015)

In my honest opinion, I think rate cuts are the result of political pressure, uber can single handedly create enough jobs to lower unemployment down to maybe 5-6% but that would limit excuses for spending in Washington on "trying to create jobs" none of this makes sense, i don't believe Travis is that much of a arse hole to do all this just bc his ego. I think it's something bigger then that.


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## Lyftonly (Nov 12, 2015)

An btw shut the hell up. If people can make money they will do it when ever they can. There's no "do it on your spare time" this is the real world.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

The last business I owned, I was able to set my own rate and work with whatever clients I chose.

With Uber, you are their employee with none of the benefits.

Stop kidding yourself.


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## Lyftonly (Nov 12, 2015)

And also on another note. One of the famous quotes uber tossed in people's faces was "drivers who worked full time made up to 90k a year!" I don't want to hear that crock about "it was never meant to be a full time gig" makes me angry and I don't even drive! I been on strike since October


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## Reversoul (Feb 8, 2016)

Broke a** Detroit smh


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## dpv (Oct 12, 2015)

Uber can set those rates as low as they want. After all Uber isn't responsible for the wear and tear on your personal vehicle or paying on the data plan you have on your personal cell phone to make the their App work. If you take all the drivers they have under them and multiply by their measly lowest rates they have set per mile they're still making bank. Uber doesn't care.


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## u-Boat (Jan 4, 2016)

_"You are a business owner not an employee"._

Nope. As an uber driver you own 3 things - your car, your smart phone, and all the incurred expenses. uBer owns the rest. Including you. Grant drivers the freedom to set their OWN rates. Then they'll OWN something.

_"People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job"._

Speak for yourself man a lot of people make a living doing this full time. And it ain't a bad gig from my perspective. But it could be better...


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## u-Boat (Jan 4, 2016)

_"If the rates are too low for you you have 2 choices... Try to renegotiate or quit. Stop whining and do one Or the other."
_
I wouldn't consider advocating free market principles "whining". Renegotiating rates is not an option - uBer has no competition. For some quitting is not an option either. Especially those with a lot invested...


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

u-Boat said:


> _"You are a business owner not an employee"._
> 
> Nope. As an uber driver you own 3 things - your car, your smart phone, and all the incurred expenses. uBer owns the rest. Including you. Grant drivers the freedom to set their OWN rates. Then they'll OWN something.
> 
> ...


^^^
Been saying basically the same thing over and over again on this site.
Set the rates $1.00 under the cab rates and Uber would clean up just on the length of time that it takes for an Uber driver to get to your location. 
Here in Vegas the wait is usually an hour to two hours.... and sometimes they never get here like when NASCAR is in town, particularly on the last day. 
All the cabs in the city do one thing.... go from hotels / airport to Exit 54. That's it.
Last year I tried to get a cab to get to the bank and called at 8:A.M. and that day the ride never materialized even calling all day long and multiple companies. 
One company dispatcher told me: "Just call somebody else", and that was the company that owns the car service that I WORK for! 
Even the cab companies that are Geo-fenced weren't adhering to their areas to get in on the so-called 'big bux'. 
Things always seem to happen like this when my car is in the dealer, but in this town you can't get a frickin cab. 
So when I say to just keep the rates a buck below the cabs, I'll just say that with Uber a ride to the dealer is +- 28 bux.... but with a cab it's right around $47. 
Then I find out that the dealer will flat bed my car home to me for only $20.00 If you schedule at the time the car is left off.... and after leaving it off, they shuttle me home or to work for free. LOL!

But 60 or 90 cents a mile from Uber is nothing but bullcrap.... doesn't even cover depreciation, fuel and maintenance, and after Uber's cut it's squat.


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## Novus Caesar (Dec 15, 2015)

We are contractors. You do set your own price. By determining who you contract out to. If you want a higher price, you go with someone else. Uber has said what they will pay for the job they want done. If you accept their offer, you are still a contractor. I've said before, Priceline does not employ the hotels it lists, and it will not list anyone. There are parameters.


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## RichR (Feb 12, 2016)

garyk said:


> ... People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time....


If drivers make any money in their spare time, that's nice but, it's not by design. Uber exists only to make money for Uber.

Lately, that means cutting fares to increase volume and skimming more off the top to increase revenues. This will cause higher driver turnover (churn). But, more than enough new drivers are signing up to replace those who quit.

At this stage, Uber does not need driver loyalty to maximize the Uber bottom line.


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## Novus Caesar (Dec 15, 2015)

RichR said:


> If drivers make any money in their spare time, that's nice but, it's not by design. Uber exists to make money for Uber.
> 
> Lately, that means cutting fares to increase volume and skimming more off the top to increase revenues. This will cause higher driver turnover (churn). But, more than enough new drivers are signing up to replace those who quit.
> 
> At this stage, driver loyalty is not required to maximize the Uber bottom line.


That is exactly it. Quit McDonald's all you want--someone else even lower than you is waiting to fill your slot. We are the McDonald's of driving.

The only real hope is to maximize the pyramid scheme and sign up as many suckers as you can.


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## oneubersheep (Nov 27, 2014)

Exactly


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

garyk said:


> Even though you only planned on doing this part time you are still a business owner and cannot think hourly wage because it's going to cause nothing but heartache for you. Like I said run the business for a quarter check your profit loss statements and see if it's worth your time if it isn't then you need to quit.


If you are doing this as a side venture,you can operate at a loss on paper for 3 years and claim a tax deduction.


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## RichR (Feb 12, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> If you are doing this as a side venture,you can operate at a loss on paper for 3 years and claim a tax deduction.


And cut your losses by a third. Woo-hoo!

That might not be the world's worst hobby. But it's gotta be right up there.


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## Tequila Jake (Jan 28, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Uber has complete and total control over every part of the job. They can change anything and everything at any time without any input of us. Therefore we are employees.


There is one key area Uber doesn't control that allows us to be considered independent contractors. Most employers prohibit employees from working for a competitor even on their own time. Contrary to that, many of us simultaneously contract with Uber and its competition at the same time.

If you're an employee, they can prevent you from driving for Lyft or any other service that Uber deems competition, including food and package delivery services. In exchange for what? $7.75/hour and gas money?


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## Tequila Jake (Jan 28, 2016)

u-Boat said:


> _"If the rates are too low for you you have 2 choices... Try to renegotiate or quit. Stop whining and do one Or the other."
> _
> I wouldn't consider advocating free market principles "whining". Renegotiating rates is not an option - uBer has no competition. For some quitting is not an option either. Especially those with a lot invested...


I respectfully disagree. Uber has a lot of competition for the one thing they have no control over -- how the driver chooses to use his/her time.

I haven't been doing this long but do consider it a business. Like someone else, I used to own a restaurant, and I had spreadsheets for every imaginable metric. Revenue and cost per mile and per hour are both important. So are total revenue and total costs. And one of the most critical metrics is cash flow.

Services like Uber and Lyft are very good at generating cash flow. However, they also generate a disproportionate amount of costs. Services like DoorDash provide much less total cash flow but much lower costs. And Veyo is a very good blend.

My task as a business owner requires understanding these factors and optimizing the mix of services I provide and at what time of day I provide them.

Also, I find I mostly enjoy the work and I'm thinking of "semi-retiring" and making this driving stuff my only profession. It won't be happening for a while since I'm pretty sure this will not be sustainable through a Phoenix summer when snowbirds and drunk college students are gone, there aren't any events and conferences, etc.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


Not true. When not driving Uber, I bill myself out at $100 per hour as a consultant, so I'm pretty in touch with my hourly rate. The flip side of this, of course, is that when someone leaves something in my car and I have to go out of my way to return it to them, I have to charge my daylight rate of $100/hour. Several months ago a woman left her iPhone in my car when I dropped her off at the airport for vacation. She needed it back desperately. So, it cost $42.50 to overnight it to her with early morning delivery the following day. And because driving to FedEx and boxing it up took me a little more than 30 minutes, I had to charge her $50. I waived the mileage fee. She gave me a credit card number and I charged it through one of my other businesses. She was more than happy to get her phone back so quickly and for only $92.50.

Remember, we're contractors. ABC: Always Be Compensated. We should never take advantage of a situation, and I don't, but we must also remember that as IC's we should never allow ourselves to be taken advantage of either. As IC's, no one's time is more valuable than ours. NO ONE'S.


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## RichR (Feb 12, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> ... when someone leaves something in my car and I have to go out of my way to return it to them, I have to charge my daylight rate of $100/hour. ...


I like how you think! How many times have you had to do that? Anybody ever said WTF and reported you to Uber for holding their stuff hostage? (I wonder if that could get interesting.)


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

RichR said:


> I like how you think! How many times have you had to do that? Anybody ever said WTF and reported you to Uber for holding their stuff hostage? (I wonder if that could get interesting.)


Not once, my friend. First of all, I never make an attempt to reached out to the pax when personal belongings have been left in my car. If the pax wants the item, they'll track me down through Uber. And when they do, I always negotiate a return fee. We're IC's, after all. We cannot be expected to give away even a minute of our time. Here are the items I've returned...

iPhone: I told that one already.

Kenneth Cole prescription eyeglasses: Drove 16 miles round trip. Took a little over 20 minutes. Charged $10 mileage fee and $30 courtesy fee. Pax was grateful.

Key ring with house and automobile keys: Pax contacted me when I was about 10 minutes away. Turned around. Charged $15 courtesy fee. Pax thanked me repeatedly.

Wallet and cell phone left in seat pocket: Dropped pax at friend's house at 10pm. Pax then asked me to deliver items to him at 2:30 AM. I was on my way home when call came in. Drove 22 miles one way. Charged $25 mileage fee + $35 courtesy fee + $20 inconvenience fee. Now, did I feel right about charging a guy $80 to get his wallet and phone back? YES! He created the problem and he expected me to solve it in the middle of the damn night. I wanted to go home and go to sleep - I was really tired. It was not my intention to drive to a suburb two cities away. I will maintain that even at $80 I did this bloke a favor. Although pax was hammered, still thanked me repeatedly and willingly gave me his credit card number as he'd blown his cash at the watering hole.

ABC: Always Be Compensated.


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

garyk said:


> You say that their tactics are predatory but they just pray on most people's greed. Targeting the greedy is not a predatory tactic it is smart business for most businesses and you need to look at this from your own best interest not their best interest. If someone appeals to your greed you need to think long and hard about what it is you're doing because read as a motivation will almost always leave one person with the short end of the stick. If you burn bridges to drive and come short on other commitments then this is your own fault because you could have done the research


 These are not greedy people, these are people who want to be paid fair for thier efforts, on the surface just looking at an uber recruiting advertizement, one would think that Uber pay was not just fair but generous. This is not the case, even a sinple person can see that Ubers tactics are preditory. To be specific the guaranteed rates, which are quite impossible to earn, 1.3 rides per hour really means 2 rides per hour...and 50 percent of those 2 rides must come from a single area....guess what? that designated area is a dead zone and it is far from the hot high need areas, you need to have the app on so when you are in transit too or from a hot zone of coarse you will be pinged from it, making it impossible to return to the area where the guarantee says you must start 50 percent of your trips. Alot of people have quit, so now surge is happening all the time...well after a 15 percent pay cut a 2x surge is actually a 1.7 surge...the 1.5 surge is acutally a 1.2 surge...1.2 surge? after the uber cut of 30 percent that 1.2 surge is really paying you .9........Go ahead and drive for them in your spare time, the only "buisness owners" that tolerate and exonerate this type of treatment are self employed in brothels. Though they get the same posterior treatment as we do along with the same sore areas, at least they name thier price.


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## rtaatl (Jul 3, 2014)

Here we go again with Uber getting their X drivers to believe they're "business owners" again...blah.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


Can you explain exactly what bussiness you exactly own ??

I own a coffeemaker ? Am I a bussiness owner !?


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Novus Caesar said:


> That is exactly it. Quit McDonald's all you want--someone else even lower than you is waiting to fill your slot. We are the McDonald's of driving.
> 
> The only real hope is to maximize the pyramid scheme and sign up as many suckers as you can.


You are a proud McDonald's ride equivalent 
Congratulation I'm proud of you !!


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## rtaatl (Jul 3, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Can you explain exactly what bussiness you exactly own ??
> 
> I own a coffeemaker ? Am I a bussiness owner !?


Not until you get that espresso maker....lol!


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

rtaatl said:


> Not until you get that espresso maker....lol!


I will get in touch with the Coffey app
Can't wait to pay those SFR's


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> I will get in touch with the Coffey app
> Can't wait to pay those SFR's


I'll buy your old coffee maker if you upgrade to a espresso machine


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Scenicruiser said:


> I'll buy your old coffee maker if you upgrade to a espresso machine


Would you make an offer on my bussiness ?
I may sell it


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Would you make an offer on my bussiness ?
> I may sell it


I will need to talk to the Small Business Administration and get back to you.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Scenicruiser said:


> I will need to talk to the Small Business Administration and get back to you.


Includes a Single Coffey maker , Coffey table , Cash shoe box , 1 roll of quarters , Chop Stix & Washed Solo Cups


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Includes a Single Coffey maker , Coffey table , Cash shoe box , 1 roll of quarters , Chop Stix & Washed Solo Cups


I assumed gas station bathroom washed cups when buying from a livery driver...and I feel like your holding out on me on "coffee table" books


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Scenicruiser said:


> I assume gas station bathroom washed cups when buying from a livery driver


How did you know ?
Those hand washing stations at the lot work wonders


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## UBER11 (Feb 24, 2016)

Instyle said:


> Uber uses predatory tactics towards people needing money such as the post after Walmart job cuts coupled with wild accusations of "good money" and healthy incentives to get you onboard.
> 
> During the honeymoon period it's usually an ok return so most people make life changing decisions by steering time away from other commitments to increase the revenue from Uber, then as time goes on the hours are constantly increasing to maintain the same level or dwindling return ultimately creating a situation that is difficult to leave. Existing ties with past commitments are usually severed when investing more time with Uber.
> 
> ...


I will have to agree, you are absolutely right. It is a cilcle that is very difficult for some to break.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Includes a Single Coffey maker , Coffey table , Cash shoe box , 1 roll of quarters , Chop Stix & Washed Solo Cups


But what is the name? It's all about branding, right?


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Includes a Single Coffey maker , Coffey table , Cash shoe box , 1 roll of quarters , Chop Stix & Washed Solo Cups


Alright...I have great news. I have a neighbor that wants to be my "partner". I am going to provide the purchase price and maintain the above items and do all the work. He is going to get 28% plus $2.00 for every cup of coffee I sell. He will also tell how much I can charge and if I can't afford to sell coffee at the price he says then he gets to give me a "time out". He doesn't like me very much but my schedule will be flexible and my only expense will be coffee


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Sold separate 

El Baratero Cafe Inc.

Registered in TJ you'll have to go south of the border and file the transfer
If I go I would not be able to come back easily


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Scenicruiser said:


> Alright...I have great news. I have a neighbor that wants to be my "partner". I am going to provide the purchase price and maintain the above items. He is going to get 28% plus $2.00 for every cup of coffee I sell. He will also tell how much I can charge and if I can't afford to sell coffee at the price he says then he gets to give me a "time out". He doesn't like me very much but my schedule will be flexible and my only expense will be coffee


Is your neighbors last name Kalanik ?


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Is your neighbors last name Kalanik ?


Not sure...he doesn't answer the door or have a phone. I will email his representive in the Philippines and ask...may take a few days


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Novus Caesar said:


> That is exactly it. Quit McDonald's all you want--someone else even lower than you is waiting to fill your slot. We are the McDonald's of driving.
> 
> The only real hope is to maximize the pyramid scheme and sign up as many suckers as you can.


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## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

garyk said:


> If the rates are too low for you you have 2 choices... Try to renegotiate or quit. Stop whining and do one Or the other. Sorry so blunt. Not saying you are whining toi but a lot of other people are.


I have done exactly as you suggest (quit Uber). For exactly the reason you cite, poor ROI. But as a former business owner, your suggestion of how drivers asses their profits is a bit facile. They control only their costs but none of the pricing side of the equation. The people who do control that will be out of business in fairly short order as it is impossible to run a rideshare business without drivers.


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## JuanIguana (Nov 24, 2015)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


 "That's all there is to it......"


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


It's designed to work for part-time people who do it temporarily. Rinse and spit.

If their aim was to have full-time professionals, then they'd have rates commensurate with taxis.

Churn baby churn.


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

The amount of paperwork and requirements in Australia outweigh the benefit of doing it part-time. Despite the following you'd still be doing it illegally as it doesn't surpass the legislative requirements to run a point to point taxi service.

ABN
GST Reg
Quarterly BAS
Medical
Driver Authority
Alter vehicle Insurance
12wk Logbook
P&L Record keeping
Increased Taxation implications

Collectively thats a fair investment of time and resources leading to maximise the revenue which translates to Full-time hours.


----------



## Djc (Jan 6, 2016)

I cant be bothered to read past the 1st page so someone may have already said this.. As a business owner or IC or employee earnings per hour is pretty darn important unless you dont value your time. Without knowing your earnings per hour how do you know if you could be making more money doing something else, how do you know if it makes sense continuing business A instead of doing business B, or getting a corporate job? If you are trying to make some extra money part time wouldn't one want to do that in the highest paying opportunity possible (work environment and job satisfaction being equal). Also, for me below a certain hourly rate my leisure time is more valuable. The reason why companies can get away with what they pay some people is because that person doesn't value or even calculate their time or has no other options. Which is better making $80,000 working 50 hrs a week or $100,000 working 80 hours a week? The answer is different per person but its something that person needs to know to make a decision that is right for them. For me the extra $20K is not worth it at that rate.


----------



## CommanderXL (Jun 17, 2015)

Uber drivers are no more "business owners" than people who sell the junk they already own at a garage sale or on eBay.

I wrote a whole post about it: https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-is-just-ebay-for-your-car-miles.48688/


----------



## Lost In Translation (Sep 18, 2015)

sellkatsell44 said:


> 1) franchisees have to BUY their franchise e.g. the restaurant.. it has to reflect what the owner wants. don't you have to buy your car? maybe you already have one and passes muster (most ideal...a franchise applicant could already own a building that used to house a restaurant). if you don't, then uber will help you get one (uber lease program?) or you'd have to get a car, in order to drive for uber and it has to be to UBER'S standard.
> 
> 2) franchisee fee (from what I could see) is a cut every month. the cut was never the same, it was a portion of the sales. maybe that's not how franchisees you're familiar with works...but the franchisees that I saw (like, I actually saw the incoming and outgoings of their bank accounts and it was more then one franchisee group...e.g. one sold fast food...another was dessert based...etc etc)...that was how it worked. Don't you pay a portion of what you make to UBER? oh no, sorry, they don't trust you enough. they actually control all of the cashflow and give back to you your cut, but they still take their cut aka fee.
> 
> ...


Who says a franchisee can't set their own prices? I owned a franchise and while pricing was recommended to stay competitive, I set the prices. So a Subway could sell a tuna sandwich for $20, but doing so would be stupid because no consumer would pay that much in a competitive market place.


----------



## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

Huh...

*Walmart* almost put themselves out of business with a $1 ($11) minimum last year. Stock plummeted the worst in 25 years, earnings imploded, and at least 250 stores marked for closing.

That wasn't even a smigen of it. Wal mart suppliers were squeezed hard. In order to keep prices low (for the same low income workers to buy) 100,000 nameless suppliers had closings, layoffs, pay cuts.

Perhaps we'll see 1200 McD stores closed by November, other reductions. God knows how many McD suppliers and employees will bite it too. All of it a massive net negative to give a high - profile $1- $2.00 raise. 10 faceless employees gone or on reduced hrs so one familiar blue (or red) smock can get $60c/hr after taxes .

*I wouldn't worry about Uber drivers flocking to McDonalds*. Obviously raising prices is out of the question (they would have done it already if they could) . The jobs and franchises, and positions with suppliers probably won't be there.

*If anything McD employees will be flocking to UBER*. (there ya go , more climbin' on that leaky UBER life raft.)

Stay Safe
CC



observer said:


> View attachment 30043


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Tequila Jake said:


> There is one key area Uber doesn't control that allows us to be considered independent contractors. Most employers prohibit employees from working for a competitor even on their own time. Contrary to that, many of us simultaneously contract with Uber and its competition at the same time.
> 
> If you're an employee, they can prevent you from driving for Lyft or any other service that Uber deems competition, including food and package delivery services. In exchange for what? $7.75/hour and gas money?


I used to work for two different pizza places delivering pizza. Neither of them cared that I worked for the other one. Yes, there may be certain small amounts of companies where they may be afraid you're going to steal proprietary information, this is extremely extremely rare. And even if you allowed this to be a reason to say someone is an independent contractor, there are a million reasons why you are an employee still.

It's safe to say whether we are employees or independent contractors, given that neither Uber nor Lyft CURRENTLY disallow you from working for either, it's obvious that your argument means nothing here. There is not a job where they have to worry about you stealing internal ideas and giving them to the other employer, especially since we don't have anything to do with the corporate aspect of the company and have nothing to offer the other company, that's why they don't care.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Tequila Jake said:


> If you're an employee, they can prevent you from driving for Lyft or any other service that Uber deems competition, including food and package delivery services. In exchange for what? $7.75/hour and gas money?





uberdriverfornow said:


> It's safe to say whether we are employees or independent contractors, given that neither Uber nor Lyft CURRENTLY disallow you from working for either, it's obvious that your argument means nothing here.


Every Driver should read, and then reread, this article:
*Despite Uber's Arguments, Flexibility for Employees Is a Company's Choice*

_When challenged on the issue at the press conference, Boutrous (Uber's lead counsel) took a different tack, arguing that workers couldn't work for multiple companies if they were employees.

He said that working for Lyft and Uber simultaneously "would go away because under California law - duty of loyalty to your employer - you can't shift back and forth."

But once again that's a truth stretcher. It's actually up to the employers whether or not to activate what's known as the duty of loyalty clause of the California Labor Code. The law was written to protect employers, not as a mandate, so Uber's drivers would only have to stop working for Lyft if Uber demanded it. Or, conversely, they'd have to stop working for Uber if Lyft reclassified its drivers as employees and demanded their loyalty.

So why does Uber trot out the flexibility argument if there's no law preventing flexible employment?_


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

As I stated, this would only apply in jobs/industries where you could potentially steal proprietary information, which obviously doesn't count in this case.

Translating their argument in laymen's terms, they are stating as a matter of threat, "if you force us to classify you as employees, we will force you to not work for other tnc companies, not because we should but as a way of trying to threaten you to not force us to classify you as employees".

If it was a big deal, then they would already be enforcing it.


----------



## Tequila Jake (Jan 28, 2016)

20yearsdriving said:


> Can you explain exactly what bussiness you exactly own ??
> 
> I own a coffeemaker ? Am I a bussiness owner !?


Do you sell coffee? Then yes, you are a business owner.


----------



## UofMDriver (Dec 29, 2015)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


That maybe be true, since we are not employees, we should be able to accept or not accept work. Our acceptance level shouldn't cause us to be deactivated. Also in Detroit where it is .30 per mile and .30 per minute, we are actually losing money when force to work to maintain a acceptable acceptance level.


----------



## RichR (Feb 12, 2016)

UofMDriver said:


> ... Our acceptance level shouldn't cause us to be deactivated. Also in Detroit where it is .30 per mile and .30 per minute, we are actually losing money when force to work to maintain a acceptable acceptance level.


Uber believes drivers rejecting (ignoring) trip requests increases customer dissatisfaction, threatening Uber's revenues.

And, for whatever reason, Uber believes that somewhat-odd fare structure will produce the ridership and driver availability to maximize Uber profits in Detroit.

If Uber finds there aren't enough new drivers signing up to replace the drivers quitting, Uber will make adjustments.


----------



## Modern-Day-Slavery (Feb 22, 2016)

garyk said:


> If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements.


Worst advise I've ever read. You'd be okay working 120 hours a week for peanuts as long as there is a profit at the end of the quarter?


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Tequila Jake said:


> Do you sell coffee? Then yes, you are a business owner.


My personal opinion a bussiness should be self sufficient & the owner should be able to make a modest living from it 
Other wise it's placebo


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Average hourly profit is just more *precise* than quaterly profit analisis. It also includes things like deadhead traveling, and idle time. It is a benchmark. In this business, statagy for me is when and where to pick fares. I have preferred areas and avoid areas and it changes depending what time of day it is.

Obsessing over hourly pay without changing your stratagy is like being an employee. You can't "be your own boss" with out being a self-manager.


garyk said:


> I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements.


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## MrsUberJax (Sep 2, 2014)

garyk said:


> People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job.


You sir are wrong. Uber was originally designed to be a full time job. In fact, when Travis first started he recruited FULL TIME DRIVERS in San Francisco and he provided the FULL TIME DRIVERS with his app so that he and his friends could have drivers on-demand whenever they wanted it. 
You will also recall that when Uber was first established, the Original Uber > Uber Black> Promised full time Uber Drivers an income of $90,000 per year. Many many drivers, all across the United States, many who already worked full time as "for hire" drivers signed up with Uber, many left the "full time" driver services that they drove for and started to work exclusively for Uber. Uber made this very easy, they came up with these great loans, where you could buy a $50K vehicle and they would help you get started, help you by letting you get the payments deducted from your paycheck. Many Uber drivers took them at their word, purchased those vehicles, and started working Full Time for Uber.

Then, of course, Lyft came along, then Uber X came along..

and the rest is history... the "Livery" Executive Cab/Full Time Vehicle for Hire Industry was destroyed by Uber.

Make sure you get your facts straight before you start spouting off bullshit.


----------



## Guest (Mar 2, 2016)

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Haha @ tuna sub.
> Just made me think of a funny.
> Spell tunasub backwards.[/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## KevRyde (Jan 27, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> If hours are immaterial why point out to us that you do this in your "spare time"? It shouldn't matter if you are doing this 1 hour or 100 hours a week by your logic.





Modern-Day-Slavery said:


> Worst advise I've ever read. You'd be okay working 120 hours a week for peanuts as long as there is a profit at the end of the quarter?


I had the same thoughts, and I'm really surprised that more thread participants didn't pick up on this. "Hourly", "monthly" and "quarterly" are all measures of *time*, and as doyousensehumor mentioned above, "hourly" is simply the most precise of those three measures. I've read in multiple threads where others have proclaimed that as "business owners" we shouldn't focus on time. That's just silly. Along with my car, my phone and my wits, *my time* is one of the resources required for me to make money as a driver, and because I'm not a vampire, I have a limited supply of time while I'm on this earth. Whether or not I'm my own boss or someone else's employee, *my time has value to me*, and whether I'm visiting with friends, walking my dogs or sitting on the sofa watching TV, every hour I spend *not *working has value to me. The more money I can earn each hour that I *am *working means that I can work fewer hours to make enough money to pay my bills which gives me *more time* to enjoy all of those life activities that don't generate income.

I'm just a guy with a minivan, two phones and lots of wit who happens to think spreadsheets are fun. If all that adds up to me being a business owner, then great! All I know is that I've been at this *full time* for almost a year and a half, and I don't recall a period in my life when I have been more content.


----------



## driveLA (Aug 15, 2014)

If it's not supposed to be hourly then why is Uber tricking people into working an hourly schedule by only giving them decent money during "guarantee" hours


----------



## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

driveLA said:


> If it's not supposed to be hourly then why is Uber tricking people into working an hourly schedule by only giving them decent money during "guarantee" hours


Oh thats another subject! Borderline false advertising.. Found under "Why is there too many drivers?" Which is filed under "Why are rates so low?"


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## kideyse (Oct 22, 2015)

It is not an independent contractor position because u don't have the details of the job for making an independent decision on whether to accept it. If we are forced to go accept a job blindly then we are dependent rather than independent. We don't even have the independence for pricing.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.


Easy test to see if you, as an Uber/Lyft driver, are an employee or a business owner of your private livery service.

1. Can you legally pick up anyone you like, as a taxi driver can? Can you legally pick up street hails?

2. Can you turn off your Uber/Lyft app and still run your "business"?

Uber drivers are NOT business owners. If you were you'd be properly insured without the need to lie about what you're doing with your car. If you were, you could operate without being dependent on an app.


----------



## Djc (Jan 6, 2016)

phillipzx3 said:


> Easy test to see if you, as an Uber/Lyft driver, are an employee or a business owner of your private livery service.
> 
> 1. Can you legally pick up anyone you like, as a taxi driver can? Can you legally pick up street hails?
> 
> ...


What does street hails have to do with anything? Smh. Its not legal for liverys to do street hails regardless.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

Djc said:


> What does street hails have to do with anything? Smh. Its not legal for liverys to do street hails regardless.


If you have an actually livery business, which is what the OP implies, you can do whatever you want. Since you can't, as you're 100% dependent on Uber, you're an employee without benefits....that's what street hails has to do with it. Pretty simple.


----------



## Djc (Jan 6, 2016)

phillipzx3 said:


> If you have an actually livery business, which is what the OP implies, you can do whatever you want. Since you can't, as you're 100% dependent on Uber, you're an employee without benefits....that's what street hails has to do with it. Pretty simple.


Everything else you are saying makes sense but even livery businesses that dont use Uber cannot do street hails only taxis can are you saying those livery companies are not businesses? Uber and non uber livery services have nothing to do with taxis most pax request/call from their house or restaurant or work not on the street. In cities like nyc where everyone is licensed properly what would taxi drivers say then? If taxi dispatch services were more efficient back in the day and there were no issues of cash only maybe id be more sympathetic so many times I've called a taxi and no eta can be given or it doesn't even show up. It was better to chance your luck on the street. I do think everyone should be properly licensed and insured in all states but for that uber would have to increase its rates or no drivers.


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## RichR (Feb 12, 2016)

KevRyde said:


> I'm just a guy with a minivan, two phones and lots of wit who happens to think spreadsheets are fun.


Love that spreadsheet! I really should keep a better mileage log. Which mileage tracker app do you use?


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## KevRyde (Jan 27, 2015)

RichR said:


> Love that spreadsheet! I really should keep a better mileage log. Which mileage tracker app do you use?


I use Trip Log for mileage and My Work Clock to track my hours.


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## JuanIguana (Nov 24, 2015)

KevRyde said:


> I had the same thoughts, and I'm really surprised that more thread participants didn't pick up on this. "Hourly", "monthly" and "quarterly" are all measures of *time*, and as doyousensehumor mentioned above, "hourly" is simply the most precise of those three measures. I've read in multiple threads where others have proclaimed that as "business owners" we shouldn't focus on time. That's just silly. Along with my car, my phone and my wits, *my time* is one of the resources required for me to make money as a driver, and because I'm not a vampire, I have a limited supply of time while I'm on this earth. Whether or not I'm my own boss or someone else's employee, *my time has value to me*, and whether I'm visiting with friends, walking my dogs or sitting on the sofa watching TV, every hour I spend *not *working has value to me. The more money I can earn each hour that I *am *working means that I can work fewer hours to make enough money to pay my bills which gives me *more time* to enjoy all of those life activities that don't generate income.
> 
> I'm just a guy with a minivan, two phones and lots of wit who happens to think spreadsheets are fun. If all that adds up to me being a business owner, then great! All I know is that I've been at this *full time* for almost a year and a half, and I don't recall a period in my life when I have been more content.
> 
> View attachment 30236


 I really do hate to burst your bubble, but you're missing some costs in your spreadsheet, say nothing about opportunity cost. Hopefully you've got your thinker still buried in the sand and you won't notice this post. Headsup!


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

joeactuary said:


> I find it amusing that we always bring up Detroit when talking about low uber rates. Averaging 2 minutes a mile, Detroit is actually 90 cents a mile. Yes, still awfull but that's only 9 cents less than Atlanta for example. Orlando is 87 cents a mile. So next time, we should bring up Orlando as the postercity for low rates! Wondering what city has the lowest rate at two minutes a mile?


Interesting, because you're using the far more accurate 'total earnings' view (base+time+mileage) that most here ignore. We tend to look at only the $/mi rate and ignore the rest. And you're right: A Detroit trip from Metro Wayne to Livonia is 20 minutes and 11.8 miles producing gross earnings of $13.54 before Uber Fee... or $1.15/mi. The problem is that you can't just compare Detroit's 'total' $/mi to every other city's mileage only rate. You have to compare apples to apples.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Actually if you're giving uber a cut
> 
> You're part of a franchisee, not truly a business owner
> 
> ...


It's all pretty squishy, these definitions: Business owner, IC, Franchisee, employee.

I recently read a Forbes story about Uber's tax evading strategy. It's truly astonishing.

The Uber lawyers have self-defined everything about themselves with the express purpose of controlling all and evading responsibility wherever possible.

Most of their definitions are highly suspect, or completely invalid. Local regulators are weaklings and largely obliging. Passengers are complicit. Lawyers fighting them face gigantic opposition and can only chip away at the edges. Competitors are stymied.

The whole thing looks like an Italian election: a massively confused process that results in a completely unsatisfactory outcome for all.

All I can do is avoid the entire mess. I focus on MY customers and MY business. Thankfully there's still people who want something better. But they are harder to find.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

garyk said:


> I am probably going to be accused of being a fanboy or an employee of uber. I've noticed that a lot of people on these forums talk about hourly wage. If you're concerned about hourly wage then you are thinking like an employee not a business owner. Walk into just about any business and speak to the owner and ask him if he's concerned about how much he makes by the hour and he will say no he is concerned about quarterly and yearly profit and loss statements. Run a quarter with your business and get a profit loss statement and if you think you aren't making enough money then quit and go become an employee of someone else. That's all there is to it. People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job. I have a day job that pays my bills and provides me with medical I come out and drive in my spare time and make extra money and even after expenses and taxes I am coming out far enough ahead that I am happy. The time I put into this is time that I would have been sitting on the couch doing nothing or just hanging out with friends anyway so I am NOT concerned about the hours that I put in. All I care about is the bottom line at the end of the quarter and at the end of the year. If you cannot think about your driving this way then you are always going to be disappointed.





garyk said:


> People forget that uber was designed to be money in your spare time it was never designed to be a full time job.


 Actually, Uber began, and was created to provide filler jobs for limo drivers to grab between their appointments. Basically using limousines to function like taxis in their downtime. This was a good idea, in theory, but there were problems even at the outset. Namely, Uber has always had incomplete waybill (no viewable destination prior to acceptance of job), and their service providers (the prearranged limo drivers) carry the wrong type of commercial livery insurance. But I'm digressing from the topic.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Actually if you're giving uber a cut
> 
> You're part of a franchisee, not truly a business owner
> 
> ...


...And yet nowhere in the partner agreement is there any reference to Franchise. If I'm a franchisee, wouldn't Uber need a franchise document? This is my issue. These F_____s refuse to define anything, yet want to claim control over everything.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

observer said:


> Add to this, a true business has worth, it can be bought and sold. Try selling your ubering job.


Actually, some partners have sold their Uber spot in markets where on boarding has closed for additional drivers. Typically BLACK and SUV drivers spots.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Novus Caesar said:


> We are contractors. You do set your own price. By determining who you contract out to. If you want a higher price, you go with someone else. Uber has said what they will pay for the job they want done. If you accept their offer, you are still a contractor. I've said before, Priceline does not employ the hotels it lists, and it will not list anyone. There are parameters.


I agree and disagree. You're correct in that we drivers can either take it or leave it. What's option B? Lyft? No thanks. Priceline doesn't tell hotels what the rates are.


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## Uber D (Mar 7, 2016)

I just got here and I'm amazed at just how many people have no clue what it is they are actually doing as an Uber driver. The ignorance is breathtaking.


----------



## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Uber D said:


> I just got here and I'm amazed at just how many people have no clue what it is they are actually doing as an Uber driver. The ignorance is breathtaking.


Welcome to the forum


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## yolo25 (Aug 31, 2015)

Instyle said:


> A lot of people that enter Uber as a driver come from an employee background and aren't initially geared to run their own business. Though it's fair to say if you invest 12 hours and the return is $120 without deducting any expenses, this won't look good at the quarter anyway.


I make 120 in 4 hours using uber / lyft combanation. #WINNING


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> "Uber is NOTHING like owning your own business." That's right! Other businesses you actually have a chance to make make money!


POST # 27/UberTaxPro: Yeahhh, baby!
If there is ONE THING
better than "making money", its gotta be
"a chance to make make money !"

Bi$on Chortling !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

BurgerTiime said:


> Ya you got it wrong bud. A business owner can change his business name, hire and fire employees, must pay workers comp for the employees and pay taxes under their business name and get insurance on many different levels under their name that coincides with the business. An owner may obtain a 1-800 number and register with Google Business and be listed as such. In addition, file for a business license with their local county and obtain all permits to conduct that business. Not sure what school of business you attended but I'm guessing none.


POST # 33/BurgerTiime: ¡CORRECTO!
"Punctual
[AllBeef]Patty" ! I SO ENJOY these "Fan
Bois-come-Lately" that grace us with their
HubristicPresence then tell ALL to Suck-it-
Up or GTFO.

To use a Keltic Analogy, @ThreadStarter
appears to have attended Malarkey Uni-
versity's Not-Quite-The-Gift-of-Gab School
of #[F]UberEconomic$.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

JasonB said:


> Targeting the greedy? So we, as drivers, looking to make a few extra bucks by providing a valuable, useful service with somewhat 'flexible' work hours, are greedy?
> 
> What makes us greedy... the fact that some drivers fell for the exaggerated income claims propagated by Uber Corporate on a daily basis?
> 
> ...


POST # 51/JasonB: Settle down, Sir!
The O.P. hasn't
been here long enough to REALIZE that
Others have Confirmed his "FULL OF --IT"
Status.
Bison Chortling !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Lyftonly said:


> In my honest opinion, I think rate cuts are the result of political pressure, uber can single handedly create enough jobs to lower unemployment down to maybe 5-6% but that would limit excuses for spending in Washington on "trying to create jobs" none of this makes sense, i don't believe Travis is that much of a arse hole to do all this just bc his ego. I think it's something bigger then that.


POST #:54/Lyftonly: Sorry about your
GROSS UNDER-
ESTIMATION of the Crown Prince of
Kalanickistan [may $Billion$ be Upon
him] his August Exigency, Emperor
@$$hat the Fi$t's EGO...BUT it is now, not
only the LARGE$T THING in the Solar 
System....but...LARGER THAN !

Mentoring Bison: THAT is #Disruptive AND
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ C O R R U P T I V E !


----------



## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

Uber D said:


> I just got here and I'm amazed at just how many people have no clue what it is they are actually doing as an Uber driver. The ignorance is breathtaking.





20yearsdriving said:


> Welcome to the forum


Perhaps you guys could discuss over a cup of coffee...I know a new place.


----------



## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Scenicruiser said:


> Perhaps you guys could discuss over a cup of coffee...I know a new place.


Thank's 
You're buying Scenicruiser


----------



## El Janitor (Feb 22, 2016)

A business owner or an independent contractor?: http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/indep...-Proprietor-And-An-Independent-Contractor.htm
Don't worry Uber has important people like you on their payroll, even if you aren't. They are filed away under business expenses, and other blurred areas of ink. Oh wait data that somehow got deleted off our accounting server. Awww anyways that what our legal department told us right before that crazy fire in the server room. Darndest thing all that data wiped out by that fire? Amazing how that happens isn't it?

They hire people and pay them to do whatever needs to be done for cash. They even have people driving around thinking their business owners


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## Dogsboloks (Mar 6, 2016)

Still boils down to a number weather that we hourly weekly monthly and the cost of doing biz 
My best day ever $902 working art bazel 7 hours


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST #:54/Lyftonly: Sorry about your
> GROSS UNDER-
> ESTIMATION of the Crown Prince of
> Kalanickistan [may $Billion$ be Upon
> ...


larger then what?

mentoring secretadmirer

secrertdmirer is chortling.


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