# Uber Hit With $650 Million Employment Tax Bill in New Jersey



## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily...650-million-employment-tax-bill-in-new-jersey
Uber Technologies Inc. owes New Jersey about $650 million in unemployment and disability insurance taxes because the rideshare company has been misclassifying drivers as independent contractors, the state's labor department said.

Uber and subsidiary Rasier LLC were assessed $523 million in past-due taxes over the last four years, the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development said in a pair of letters to the companies. The rideshare businesses also are on the hook for as much as $119 million in interest and penalties on the unpaid amounts, according to other internal department documents.

"We are challenging this preliminary but incorrect determination, because drivers are independent contractors in New Jersey and elsewhere," Uber spokeswoman Alix Anfang told Bloomberg Law

The New Jersey labor department has been after Uber for unpaid employment taxes for at least four years, according to the documents, which Bloomberg Law obtained through an open public records request.

Uber extended declines on news of New Jersey's efforts, falling as much as 3.9%. Ridehailing competitor Lyft Inc. also dropped.

The state's determination is limited to unemployment and disability insurance, but it could also mean that Uber is required to pay drivers minimum wages and overtime under state law. Uber's costs per driver, and those of Lyft, could jump by more than 20% if they are forced to reclassify workers as employees, according to Bloomberg Intelligence.

The notices mark the latest attack on the rideshare companies' business model, which treats drivers as self-employed entrepreneurs rather than employees-a classification that deprives the workers of certain benefits. Uber and Lyft recently pledged $30 million each to fight a new California law that is expected to force them to reclassify drivers as employees. They're also prepping for a similar lobbying battle in New York, where lawmakers are planning to take up gig worker legislation next year.

"I expect we may see more of this," Shannon Liss-Riordan, an attorney who has sued Uber on behalf of drivers in California and Massachusetts, said of New Jersey's tax claim against Uber. "Uber and Lyft, by misclassifying drivers, are harming not only the drivers but also the states and the public at large. The money that they're not paying into the unemployment and disability systems is being picked up by the states and the taxpayers."

New Jersey informed Uber in 2015 that it had obtained a court judgment ordering the company to pay about $54 million in overdue unemployment and temporary disability insurance contributions. It's not clear whether the company ever paid any of that bill.

The state labor department, through a spokeswoman, declined to comment on the Uber situation. Labor Commissioner Robert Asaro-Angelo said in a prepared statement that "cracking down on employee misclassification" is a "priority" for Gov. Phil Murphy's (D) administration.

"For those who say properly enforcing our unemployment laws will stifle worker flexibility, let's be clear: there is no reason temporary, or on-demand workers can't be treated like other employees who work flexible hours for short durations," Asaro-Angelo said.

Uber in April told the state labor department that it disagreed with the determination that drivers are employees and requested a hearing on the issue, but it isn't clear whether a hearing has been scheduled.

*Audit Launched Last Year*
The state labor department sent surveys to Uber and Lyft drivers over the last year seeking information about their work arrangements and tax status. The department audits 1% of employers each year for potential worker misclassification.

Since Oct. 23, the department also has determined that 65 drivers who listed Uber, Rasier or Lyft as their employer in unemployment-insurance-benefits claim forms are employees of those companies and therefore eligible to seek jobless benefits. Drivers who moonlight for the companies to supplement income from other jobs are additionally required to report rideshare earnings for eligibility determination purposes as a result of the state's determination that they are employees.

The state labor department didn't provide any documents in response to Bloomberg Law's request for unemployment insurance assessments against Lyft.

Gig employers-like Uber, Lyft, home cleaning service Handy, and food delivery operator Postmates-pitch themselves as platform providers that simply connect drivers and other service providers to customers. That argument has satisfied federal regulators during the Trump administration.

The federal Labor Department and the National Labor Relations Board have recently issued guidance indicating they're not likely to pursue Uber or Lyft for alleged misclassification. The DOL in an April opinion letter said workers at an unnamed "virtual marketplace" aren't employees for federal wage and hour purposes because the company acts as a "referral business" that links workers to new opportunities. The NLRB's top lawyer, in a memo made public two weeks later, said Uber drivers are independent contractors, excluded from protections for union and other activity.

*Strict on Classification*
Uber and other gig employers are still trying to fight off lawsuits filedunder more restrictive state laws across the country.

That includes New Jersey, which uses a version of the "ABC" test to determine whether workers are employees or contractors. In order to classify workers as contractors, state law requires a company to show that it doesn't control the work and that the service provided is outside of its "usual course" of business, or outside of the places of business where the services are otherwise performed.

"Not a day goes by when I don't speak to at least two clients about how to enhance their compliance with independent contractor laws, in particular those with 'ABC' laws," says Richard Reibstein, a business lawyer for Locke Lord in New York.

Uber, Lyft, and other online platforms unsuccessfully lobbied to stop a new law in California that uses a similar test to distinguish between contractors and employees. The companies had offered to institute minimum wages, portable benefits like paid sick leave, and some collective bargaining rights in exchange for being carved out of the new law. They're expected to push to get a referendum added to the ballot next year that would exempt platform companies the law.

Some New Jersey drivers told Bloomberg Law that they would prefer to remain contractors and keep the flexibility to choose when and where the work. Worker advocates say that's a false choice rideshare operators offer to skirt their basic responsibilities.

"This would be life-changing for thousands of drivers, to know that they will be earning at least the minimum wage," Bhairavi Desai, founder of the New York Taxi Workers Alliance, told Bloomberg Law. "The companies being required to pay into the unemployment insurance fund will mean that they can't just toss drivers off the app."


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

jocker12 said:


> https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily...650-million-employment-tax-bill-in-new-jersey
> Uber Technologies Inc. owes New Jersey about $650 million in unemployment and disability insurance taxes because the rideshare company has been misclassifying drivers as independent contractors, the state's labor department said.
> 
> Uber and subsidiary Rasier LLC were assessed $523 million in past-due taxes over the last four years, the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development said in a pair of letters to the companies. The rideshare businesses also are on the hook for as much as $119 million in interest and penalties on the unpaid amounts, according to other internal department documents.
> ...


This just may be

" THE BEGINNING OF THE END".

UBER SHOULD HAVE STAYED A " TECHNOLOGY COMPANY".

IM SUPPOSED TO PAY 20% RENT ON THE UBER APP.

INSTEAD, LOOK WHAT UBER HAS DONE.

NOW THEY DONT WANT TO PAY THE BILL.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> This just may be
> 
> " THE BEGINNING OF THE END".
> 
> ...


It does sound like a significant problem.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

goneubering said:


> It does sound like a significant problem.


The " Walls Are Closing In " !


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## L DaVinci (Oct 26, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> This just may be
> 
> " THE BEGINNING OF THE END".
> 
> ...


Uber is not a tech company by the mere fact that it has TOS agreements that dictate our actions


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> The " Walls Are Closing In " !


Closing in it is!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

jocker12 said:


> Closing in it is!


The vast open " wilderness" of Tech. Has borders now.


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## L DaVinci (Oct 26, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> The vast open " wilderness" of Tech. Has borders now.


Just like old boys cheeks.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> This just may be
> 
> " THE BEGINNING OF THE END".
> 
> ...


Twenty percent?
Is that all you're paying Uber?
You sure?


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

That's the trend. Right now we're looking at California, New Jersey, one of the Swiss states, and undoubtedly more to follow, the northwestern states will probably shortly follow, also Illinois through Chicago, and New York, and there's no way they have enough to cover the bill if every market started demanding the same. The thing is they all will eventually declare drivers employees and declare them employees retroactively which leaves them on the hook for billions. They're either going to have to significantly increase the fares and keep the difference, or lower driver pay. Those aren't the only options but no doubt those are the only two they'll see.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Wonkytonk said:


> That's the trend. Right now we're looking at California, New Jersey, one of the Swiss states, and undoubtedly more to follow, the northwestern states will probably shortly follow, also Illinois through Chicago, and New York, and there's no way they have enough to cover the bill if every market started demanding the same. The thing is they all will eventually declare drivers employees and declare them employees retroactively which leaves them on the hook for billions. They're either going to have to significantly increase the fares and keep the difference, or lower driver pay. Those aren't the only options but no doubt those are the only two they'll see.


I think they should join PG&E in their bankruptcy ... and let the State of California take them over too.
Just one more large business that can be nationalized .. Socialism.
How about it guys ... wanna work for Governor "Any-Twosome" Newsome?


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Have any deactivated drivers in NJ applied for and received unemployment benefits?


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## indydriver68 (Mar 13, 2018)

My nightly prayer....

....Burn baby burn...and please let the stock go to penny stock before Dara and Company cash out. 

May actually come true 😇


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## L DaVinci (Oct 26, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> I think they should join PG&E in their bankruptcy ... and let the State of California take them over too.
> Just one more large business that can be nationalized .. Socialism.
> How about it guys ... wanna work for Governor "Any-Twosome" Newsome?


Please get an education before you spew your lies.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

650 million here in NJ, 400 million in Hawaii, 300 million in Georgia, $45 in iowa,

They could find themselves bankrupt before they can pay all the fines they owe.

And there could be a lot more to.


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## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

Dara Khosrowshahi is carefully studying Uber's options. His staff is recommending that he follow this example.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> This just may be
> 
> " THE BEGINNING OF THE END".
> 
> ...


It is all their own doing.
If they came out today and stated we want to be a tech company and charge 20% fee, and let the market decide rates. All drivers would support them against their legal enemies.

They did this to themself, 
IDIOT NARCASSISTS


UberBastid said:


> I think they should join PG&E in their bankruptcy ... and let the State of California take them over too.
> Just one more large business that can be nationalized .. Socialism.
> How about it guys ... wanna work for Governor "Any-Twosome" Newsome?


wait! What?

Worker classification rules are socialist?&#129335;&#127995;‍♂

Paying into EDD for driver unemployment benefit and workers comp is socialist?&#129318;‍♀

Workers who get injured on the job and get protection are under socialist system?&#129327;

What are you actually saying?

What does worker classification mis use and exploitation have to do with a single governor of the moment at one state.

Let's be clear, it's not " twosome nonsense Newsome".

It's a new industry that has been enjoying total lawlessness being somewhat corrected.

As the other poster said in CAPS

It's their own doing! The tec companies we mean.

Has absolutely nothing to do with a social system used mostly in EU known as socialism.

Do you understand Germany for example is the strongest International economy, people work hard and have certain protections. Great transportation system, great medical system. What is actually wrong with Germany's system in your limited world view?

Are you afraid one day we could be as solid as Germany and manufacture stuff again! 
&#127482;&#127480;


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> It is all their own doing.
> If they came out today and stated we want to be a tech company and charge 20% fee, and let the market decide rates. All drivers would support them against their legal enemies.
> 
> They did this to themself,
> ...


No, no, no.
I didn't say all that

The def of Socialism is that the gov't takes over all means of production.
So, they 'nationalize' private business, then run it into the ground.
I'm suggesting that Any-Twosome Newsome do exactly that ... to Uber.

But, yea, Uber IS evil. Just as evil as the gov't.
I suspect they deserve each other.

Germany has a strong economy, for sure.
But, kinda stagnant right now.


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Have any deactivated drivers in NJ applied for and received unemployment benefits?


The article mentions some 65 drivers that had applied for unemployment benefits but did not disclose if they quit voluntarily or were deactivated.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

......a related story:

https://www.thestreet.com/investing...rs-15168383?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO&yptr=yahoo


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

This news is similar to other regulatory actions pending in Switzerland, EU, and the UK. where Uber runs the very good chance of being assessed not only back wages to 2015, and social safety net contributions but retroactive VAT tax which was calculated at the beginning of this year to be $1.2 billion.
Tax bills are not made public and Bloomberg Law had to make a formal request for the communication that showed the billing.
In California, The Employment Development Department and the Department Of Industrial Relations has been using the older "Borello" standard for determining worker classification and in many cases has determined that Uber drivers should be classified as employees for the purposes of unemployment insurance, etc. It makes me wonder if California has been sending similar assessments to Uber and Lyft and they have stonewalled those the same way.
.One of the scary parts of California's AB5 is that it is retroactive and so the potential bill could be very large even without penalties

In 2017, the EDD responded to Judge Chen's inquiry about the value of a suit regarding misclassification of Uber drivers and was notified that with penalties applied, the cost would be in the billions of dollars.
I wonder if there is a way to file a Freedom Of Information Act suit to find out if the meter has been running all these years.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

That would be just my luck. Ride Hailing finally gets legalized here, and Uber and Lyft go out of business/bankrupt. We're told we'll have it by Christmas this year but we've heard that tune a few times.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Have any deactivated drivers in NJ applied for and received unemployment benefits?





KevinH said:


> This news is similar to other regulatory actions pending in Switzerland, EU, and the UK. where Uber runs the very good chance of being assessed not only back wages to 2015, and social safety net contributions but retroactive VAT tax which was calculated at the beginning of this year to be $1.2 billion.


Makes me wonder if they have been after Uber for 4 years. So that classification has been there for 4 years. And as such, they (drivers) should be eligible for retro active paid overtime during that time period since they are "employees".

Which brings us to the whole arbitration clause. What ever happened with that ruling that was supposed to come out last month that was going to be "huge"?


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

jocker12 said:


> "We are challenging this preliminary but incorrect determination, because drivers are independent contractors in New Jersey and elsewhere," Uber spokeswoman Alix Anfang told Bloomberg Law


"Drivers"? What happened to Independent Contractor Transportation Providers? Wish they would make up their mind...



jocker12 said:


> force them to reclassify drivers as employees. They're also prepping for a similar lobbying battle in New York, where lawmakers are planning to take up gig worker legislation next year


50 states ... shoot, the US alone may bankrupt the companies.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

VanGuy said:


> That would be just my luck. Ride Hailing finally gets legalized here, and Uber and Lyft go out of business/bankrupt. We're told we'll have it by Christmas this year but we've heard that tune a few times. :smiles:


don't worry,

it would have ended up horrible for you guys in no time.
In Orlando Florida you can get back to back rides all day and make less than min wage plus expenses for 200 miles driven.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

All these states that need money just going after Uber. Another trend-people running away from these states and moving elsewhere.
Depletion of the tax base. 
I did have a chance to see the huge, humongous FB data center. 
why didn’t FB makes its data center in LA, NY, SF, Chicago 😁 don’t people need work in these areas😁


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> This just may be
> 
> " THE BEGINNING OF THE END".
> 
> ...


1. Yes, it most definitely is. Especially since dear Travis has clearly read the writing on the wall...

http://www.mercurynews.com/2019/11/...ads-hundreds-of-millions-worth-of-uber-stock/
http://markets.businessinsider.com/...other-164-million-of-stock-2019-11-1028689950

That's a definite sign that peasant investors in the public should follow his shining example and bail on this dumpster fire before it's too late. Because in terms of future profitability, Uber is sinking faster to the bottom of the Mariana's Trench than a chicken with the Titantic tied to its leg...

2. Uber (which core business competency is transportation) was NEVER an IT company. Just like it's fugly red headed sibling WeWork (which core business competency is real estate) was NEVER an IT company. Neither of these fugly siblings were based on profitable business models. And both are unlikely to ever recover in their stock price. Especially since their main investor SoftBank finally admitted to having been suckered in its investment portfolio with all the false tom f*ckery profitability these "IT companies" pitched in their fundraising rounds....

3. Only if you insist on punishing yourself. Get #WOKE. The 2006-2007 recession created by Wall Street and the financial bubble implosion is over. The US economy is back on top and SOARING. You now have superior job options that didn't exist at the height of the recession a decade ago. National unemployment rate is now down since employers are optimistic about the economy again. So jobs are FAR easier to find than 10 yrs ago.

Perfect example: work for Amazon as a full time employee at $15/hr with FULL health care benefits, stock options, OJIT, school education, job mobility and vertical career advancement for starters. Takes a simple 10 min application online with no required interview to get hired. Amazon is one of the few global employers who will hire employees regardless of age, experience, sex or physical handicap. And you can transfer to jobs around the country/worldwide after several months of experience. So there's no excuse to look for decent, well paying work in your area.

4. Look at what Uber's done? Now they don't want to pay the bill? WTH are you ranting about? Seriously?? *Nobody held a gun to your head when you signed up to be a rideshare driver. Nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to turn on the app whenever you get into your car. And nobody is holding you ransom to accept pax pings. Grow the f*ck up FFS. The only person you need to direct blame on is the one looking at you in the mirror.*

Recognize Uber/Lyft and ride share industry in general was NEVER designed to be a full time job. They were designed to be temporary gig economy jobs just like Amazon Flex etc. which were designed for part time independent contractors (hence the term "gig"). Who typically take on temporary, short term contracts to provide a service driven by supply/demand of local markets. It's ppl like you who sign up to be independent contractors. Then somehow lose sight of that NON EMPLOYEE status because you start to believe you're "entitled" to the same benefits and career progression that real white collar Uber employees have.

*Like any company, Uber is a corporation. And the definition of a corporation is to make money for it's shareholders. Period. No where in that definition does this include external parties the likes of independent contractors such as yourself.* If this exclusion is upsetting to you, then change your situation. Because if the rideshare game has become so stressful and unprofitable for you, then it sounds like you need to quit it ASAP. Find other means of employment that will meet your financial obligations and don't destroy your mental and physical health FFS.....


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Cynergie said:


> Recognize Uber/Lyft and ride share industry in general was NEVER designed to be a full time job. They were designed to be temporary gig economy jobs just like Amazon Flex etc. which were designed for part time independent contractors (hence the term "gig").


Bullshit

It was promoted by the companies themselves as full time, part time, temporary, permanent ... whatever got them masses of asses.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> ......a related story:
> 
> https://www.thestreet.com/investing...rs-15168383?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO&yptr=yahoo


...and yet another reason for the stock to retain its negative swan dive towards oblivion. Their stock performance is only going to get worse as litigation from bad PR like this, operational and driver related suits continue to pile up. When SoftBank finds a way to completely cut ties as the main investor, Uber will be pretty much finished. The brand will be completely toxic and no investors are likely to go near them.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Cynergie said:


> No where in that definition does this include external parties the likes of independent contractors such as yourself


Or the lives of people crossing the street, either, apparently.

Get off your high horse. Uber is a POS slimy corporation that has (and will continue to) lie, cheat, stolen, framed, and even killed. All in the name of the almighty dollar.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Mista T said:


> Bullshit
> 
> It was promoted by the companies themselves as full time, part time, temporary, permanent ... whatever got them masses of asses.


...And know that I Cynergie, am the true Queen of England. And I therefore decree that from this moment forward, I have elevated you to the highest peerage of the realm at the rank of Dukedom. And from hereafter, you will be known to the Lords of the Realm and the unwashed peasantry masses as Duke of Sussex. I also hereby grant thee the power to banish whichever of your unfortunate peers who might be occupying said peerage to date. Now rise my noble Lord Mista T, Duke of Sussex and take your place amongst the peerage of the realm! :smiles:

And oh yes, I absolutely agree Uber is a POS slimy corporation. Something all of its independent contractors aka lowly drivers didn't seem to be completely aware. Until the IPO, lockup, and subsequent fire sale of all whale investors the likes of SoftBank, Uber board of directors, senior employees (who've been with Uber since 2009), and other early investors with more money than common sense the likes of PayPal is now currently under way.

This dumpster fire is only going to get worse as TK continues dumping all his shares for green pastures btw. Which is really going to suck for the average Joe Public investor who actually believed Uber was a solid buy for long term investment. Odds are the likes of Amazon, Google, Apple, M$ and eBay will be around 5-10 years from now. Unlike Uber......

I'm also wiling to bet that if CA AB5 ever becomes an enforceable reality by the state legislature, than Uber (and Lyft) will have long since dodged this bullet by declaring bankruptcy. And all the executive officers responsible for its inception (minus Travis for the obvious reasons) will have long since made off like the bum nugget pirates they truly are. The only ppl to truly profit from this slow burn pump and dump semi Ponzi scheme. Leaving a legion of lowly investor shareholder peons (some who are apparently drivers on this forum) holding a very large bag of worthless shares and debt in their wake.

Welcome to Capitalism 10 btw. Typically known to be a very difficult pill to swallow when you're not on the lucrative receiving end like our boy TK......


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

They deserve this.


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## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

I LOVE THIS SONG.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> Twenty percent?
> Is that all you're paying Uber?
> You sure?


When i signed up it was 20%.

Uber gets NOTHING from me now


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

KevinH said:


> The article mentions some 65 drivers that had applied for unemployment benefits but did not disclose if they quit voluntarily or were deactivated.


It's pretty difficult to quit voluntarily. You can not take a trip for months and then jump back in. They don't seem to actually deactivate you for not driving.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

So all the drivers will have to redo their taxes and not write off miles as employees under new law? Will they get their portion of self employment tax back, or are they trying to double dip?


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> So all the drivers will have to redo their taxes and not write off miles as employees under new law? Will they get their portion of self employment tax back, or are they trying to double dip?


If taxes were redone, driver would get back their SE tax payment and lose their mileage deduction. OTOH there would be mileage reimbursement from the employer, as well as other reimburseable expenses. And taxes would be categorized differently. We would "earn" less, since Uber claims that we collect 100% from the pax and THEN pay them their cut.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

UBER

MY FAVORITE PENNY STOCK !


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> No, no, no.
> I didn't say all that
> 
> The def of Socialism is that the gov't takes over all means of production.
> ...


I know what you mean.

I am actually in Northern California and just think blaming PGE and trying to take over, is ******ed.

As if the state can provide electricity to people building in the hills of known fire danger. citys fault for giving permits, states fault for not cleaning forest. Then just blame PGE.

Yea, I think dictatorship style socialism, like just taking over, ie Cuba, Venezuela, N Korea is scary.

Nonsense two cents Newsom is ******ed in a way. But I don't think he will go that far, or any other Gov will.

I think there is still negotiations and now instead of one power center, we have 3.

Corp, State, Union.

We might as well just sit back and watch, not like we get a vote.&#127871;&#127482;&#127480;&#128077;

Hope for the best for drivers.


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## Merc49 (Apr 30, 2019)

Somebody forward this thread to Lori Lightfoot, Chicago's mayor. She needs avout 100 million bucks to get the city out of debt, maybe she can persuade Uber to help. Lollol


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## EphLux (Aug 10, 2018)

Uber tried to hustle the OG of hustlers and gets a $0.65 Billion bill instead.

I like it.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Wonkytonk said:


> That's the trend. Right now we're looking at California, New Jersey, one of the Swiss states, and undoubtedly more to follow, the northwestern states will probably shortly follow, also Illinois through Chicago, and New York, and there's no way they have enough to cover the bill if every market started demanding the same. The thing is they all will eventually declare drivers employees and declare them employees retroactively which leaves them on the hook for billions. They're either going to have to significantly increase the fares and keep the difference, or lower driver pay. Those aren't the only options but no doubt those are the only two they'll see.


If its retroactive I want my taxes that I paid in as my golden parachute!!!


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> If its retroactive I want my taxes that I paid in as my golden parachute!!!


Your response is fairly nonspecific would you mind explaining specifically what you mean?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Mista T said:


> Bullshit
> 
> It was promoted by the companies themselves as full time, part time, temporary, permanent ... whatever got them masses of asses.


Yeah,

uber activly recruited full time taxi drivers in the early days


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Yeah,
> 
> uber activly recruited full time taxi drivers in the early days


I was sucked in by Uber's Con.


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## Steve appleby (May 30, 2015)

The way I look at this is that this is all just a big money grab. These cases are going to take years to resolve. You’re dealing with a lot of money and once you get lawyers involved it’s gonna take YEARS for these cases to go through the court system because all the lawyers are going to do is is appeal all the rulings.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> don't worry,
> 
> it would have ended up horrible for you guys in no time.
> In Orlando Florida you can get back to back rides all day and make less than min wage plus expenses for 200 miles driven.


I fully expect in time it would be the same dumpster fire as everywhere else, I just wanted in during our early days since the class 4 restriction will keep a lot of would be drivers out and so hopefully in the beginning rates and surge will be high in order to convince people over that hurdle.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

peteyvavs said:


> I was sucked in by Uber's Con.


But you still have your medallion right? In which case, you could always go back to trying to make a fair, decent wage. Which isn't the case for hundreds of thousands of n00b average Joe Uber drivers to date. Sh*t's gonna hit the fan when the fat lady stops singing. Most likely once Uber's stock gets around to hitting penny stock valuation. And then a lot of FT independent contractors in the ride share sector are going to be looking for work. Only way to avoid that is to break Uber (and Lyft's) monopoly over the rideshare sector. Or an investor pull out that forces Uber into insolvency. That would make it difficult for DK and the rest of his cartel pirates to use their golden parachutes and bail. Breaking Uber (and Lyft's) monopoly into dozens of fiercely competing ride share companies would be hugely beneficial to both passenger and drivers alike. Both would benefit from competitive pricing and wages due to increased free market competition.

Now WTH are the likes of Micheal Milken and Gordon "Greed Is Good" Gecko when you need them? Particularly the latter who is the Ying to LyfUber's Yang. A mandatory necessary evil to break corporatist monopolies in industries like IT aka Google, Amazon etc etc. Because IMO the psuedo IT industries the likes of the rideshare sector with LyfUber are in dire need of classic corporate raiders like him....


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Election time is just around the corner, Uber will just bribe, oppps donate to some campaigns and we’ll never hear another word about Uber owing taxes.


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

this is a scam by states to get a cut.....get ready for shifts, mandatory 4.2 pools and no dest filter.....


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Cynergie said:


> But you still have your medallion right? In which case, you could always go back to trying to make a fair, decent wage. Which isn't the case for hundreds of thousands of n00b average Joe Uber drivers to date. Sh*t's gonna hit the fan when the fat lady stops singing. Most likely once Uber's stock gets around to hitting penny stock valuation. And then a lot of FT independent contractors in the ride share sector are going to be looking for work. Only way to avoid that is to break Uber (and Lyft's) monopoly over the rideshare sector. Or an investor pull out that forces Uber into insolvency. That would make it difficult for DK and the rest of his cartel pirates to use their golden parachutes and bail. Breaking Uber (and Lyft's) monopoly into dozens of fiercely competing ride share companies would be hugely beneficial to both passenger and drivers alike. Both would benefit from competitive pricing and wages due to increased free market competition.
> 
> Now WTH are the likes of Micheal Milken and Gordon "Greed Is Good" Gecko when you need them? Particularly the latter who is the Ying to LyfUber's Yang. A mandatory necessary evil to break corporatist monopolies in industries like IT aka Google, Amazon etc etc. Because IMO the psuedo IT industries the likes of the rideshare sector with LyfUber are in dire need of classic corporate raiders like him....


Pre uber, there was only 4 cab companies that covered all of Orlando, only 2 that covered the suburbs with any reliability. Most of the suburbs are down to only one cab company.

The individual drivers needed near monopolistic dispatching of fares in order to make it work.

A dozen companies operating in the suburbs results in 1/12 as many calls going out to cars that are 12 times farther from the nearest fare.

Truth is that monopolies do in fact help in the dispatching of calls, reality is that it only increases efficiency until you reach critical mass for an individual city.

*Reality is that the only way the cab companies can function is when the cities regulate prices and the cab companies can't undercut each other.*


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## BogusServiceAnimal (Oct 28, 2019)

Get your settlement check before they go bankrupt!


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

jocker12 said:


> https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily...650-million-employment-tax-bill-in-new-jersey
> Uber Technologies Inc. owes New Jersey about $650 million in unemployment and disability insurance taxes because the rideshare company has been misclassifying drivers as independent contractors, the state's labor department said.
> 
> Uber and subsidiary Rasier LLC were assessed $523 million in past-due taxes over the last four years, the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development said in a pair of letters to the companies. The rideshare businesses also are on the hook for as much as $119 million in interest and penalties on the unpaid amounts, according to other internal department documents.
> ...


Hmmmmm.... 
Multiply $650,000,000 x 50 States = $32,500,000,000 BILLION in Possible Fines. 
Now I know why Travis sold a huge chunk of his stock.

This could sink them and Lyft....


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

But you have to factor at will employer states into that number. So the reality is somewhere between $650k and $32 Billion. But definitely not chump change.

edit: and Uber doesn't have $32 Billion to piss out the window lately either. Unless DK plans on slitting all driver's throats with an Uber cut of 100%


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

My state, Oregon, legally ruled in 2015 that ridehail drivers are employees. But nothing has happened on that front (afaik). If they follow Jerseys lead, they may file suit one day and claim 4 or 5 years of back taxes and penalties.

Who knows...


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Mista T said:


> My state, Oregon, legally ruled in 2015 that ridehail drivers are employees. But nothing has happened on that front (afaik). If they follow Jerseys lead, they may file suit one day and claim 4 or 5 years of back taxes and penalties.
> 
> Who knows...


This is interesting.

here everyone is talking about ab5 and California when Oregon did it years ago?


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

sellkatsell44 said:


> This is interesting.
> 
> here everyone is talking about ab5 and California when Oregon did it years ago?


California is a whole different pile of crap.
The politicians here routinely ignore voters wishes.
Just because we voted for or against AB5 doesn't mean a damn thing,

Typical of socialists ... same thing happening to Trump right now
WE the people voted for him ... doesn't matter. 
"The Elites" know better.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> California is a whole different pile of crap.
> The politicians here routinely ignore voters wishes.
> Just because we voted for or against AB5 doesn't mean a damn thing,
> 
> ...


I'm confused.

are you protrump?

:frown:
Though I'm not a fan of David either.

well.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

sellkatsell44 said:


> I'm confused.
> 
> are you protrump?
> 
> ...


No.
BUT, I will vote for him.
Because, like me, he is pro USA.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> No.
> BUT, I will vote for him.
> Because, like me, he is pro USA.


I would think running for president is automatic pro USA though?

In any case, I believe in people's freedom to make choices as long as it doesn't directly interfere with my freedom of choice so.

I'll slink over to the corner silently.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Taxi2Uber said:


> So all the drivers will have to redo their taxes and not write off miles as employees under new law? Will they get their portion of self employment tax back, or are they trying to double dip?


Employees can right off miles if they use their own vehicle an are now reimbursed


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Diamondraider said:


> Employees can right off miles if they use their own vehicle an are now reimbursed


It has been discussed at length awhile back, but feel free to interpret The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 as you wish.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Mista T said:


> My state, Oregon, legally ruled in 2015 that ridehail drivers are employees. But nothing has happened on that front (afaik). If they follow Jerseys lead, they may file suit one day and claim 4 or 5 years of back taxes and penalties.
> 
> Who knows...


See? This is EXACTLY what I've been preaching about. CA AB5 won't be doing jack sh*te for rideshare drivers in CA. The whole AB5 thing was a dog and pony show to make state legislators and politicians look as though they were actually doing something. That they're on the side of the little man. Particularly given the fact CA is a one party state with hard left leaning, socialist political ideologies. Seriously, given the explicit definition of a ride share driver's independent contractor status, HTH could AB5 ever succeed? Especially since the unions have yet to come out and officially acknowledge/support ride share drivers (or is it perhaps they've been pacified by Uber lobbyists? Couldn't be bothered with opening that Pandora's box?) to date?

If you thought Oregon's bureaucracy was a challenge, wait until ppl realize the sloth's pace at which the CA legislature is infamous for. Not a damned thing remotely transformational or beneficial to drivers will come of AB5 IMO. At least not in the next 5-10 years from now. Because by then, there's a good chance it won't even matter. Because the profit sink that is LyfUber will have long ceased to exist as the monopolies they now are. The entire house of cards foundation they're based on will dissolve once DK, his exec board and senior Uber execs cash in their chips.

Heck, the only ppl who would be guaranteed to profit from any similar litigation in CA will be the LAWYERS. Period. Because I'm willing to bet most rideshare drivers will have been likely forced to move on by then. Particularly if Uber keeps up its throat slitting campaign on rates.



UberBastid said:


> California is a whole different pile of crap.
> The politicians here routinely ignore voters wishes.
> Just because we voted for or against AB5 doesn't mean a damn thing,
> 
> ...


Never forget that while California burns and people are losing their homes to date, state Congressional representatives continue to relentlessly fiddle away to a tune called "the joke of Impeachment Hearings" on the Hill. The notes and composition which have since drastically changed from the Red October score of "It's the Russian's!" to the Jaws theme music of "Mueller's in the rear view mirror" over the last 3 years. And while criminally charging the taxpayer over $25 Million+ for exclusive front row seats to watch the whole histrionic opera ever since.

If Californian politicians put in 10% of the effort they've been expending in their single minded delusion to destroy the POTUS, Californian standard of living and quality of life would be FAR better off to date. The hypocritical left wing wealth enclaves (the likes of Silicon Valley, Hollywood, and San Francisco) literally create gentrificiaton on a daily basis. Which in turn, increases the cost of living and makes living in the state increasingly unaffordable for the state's working class and poor. Which increases the number of people on public assistance and below the poverty line throughout the state.

The standard of living of CA's wealth enclave leaders (i.e. Zuckerberg, Google boys, etc) create the very class-wealth inequalities senior party leaders (many who like Pelosi are in the top 5% of state elite) condemn. If state and Congressional leaders/politicians could drop their political agendas and serve their constituents, then the state's decaying infrastructure, educational, fiscal, and socioeconomic decline wouldn't be on a suicidal plunge to oblivion. Instead, state and Congressional politicians continue to basically fail their district constituents to date. Sacrificed the CA taxpayer's interests for personal gain and goal-less political party agendas in Washington.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

sellkatsell44 said:


> I would think running for president is automatic pro USA though?
> 
> In any case, I believe in people's freedom to make choices as long as it doesn't directly interfere with my freedom of choice so.
> 
> I'll slink over to the corner silently.


Yes, I'm a Libertarian too.
But ... I still think that my best vote is for Trump.
Even though, living in Cali ... it's wasted.


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## Galveston (Aug 16, 2019)

jocker12 said:


> https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily...650-million-employment-tax-bill-in-new-jersey
> Uber Technologies Inc. owes New Jersey about $650 million in unemployment and disability insurance taxes because the rideshare company has been misclassifying drivers as independent contractors, the state's labor department said.
> 
> Uber and subsidiary Rasier LLC were assessed $523 million in past-due taxes over the last four years, the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development said in a pair of letters to the companies. The rideshare businesses also are on the hook for as much as $119 million in interest and penalties on the unpaid amounts, according to other internal department documents.
> ...


YAY!!!!!!&#128515;


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Cynergie said:


> See? This is EXACTLY what I've been preaching about. CA AB5 won't be doing jack sh*te for rideshare drivers in CA. The whole AB5 thing was a dog and pony show to make state legislators and politicians look as though they were actually doing something. That they're on the side of the little man. Particularly given the fact CA is a one party state with hard left leaning, socialist political ideologies. Seriously, given the explicit definition of a ride share driver's independent contractor status, HTH could AB5 ever succeed? Especially since the unions have yet to come out and officially acknowledge/support ride share drivers (or is it perhaps they've been pacified by Uber lobbyists? Couldn't be bothered with opening that Pandora's box?) to date?
> 
> If you thought Oregon's bureaucracy was a challenge, wait until ppl realize the sloth's pace at which the CA legislature is infamous for. Not a damned thing remotely transformational or beneficial to drivers will come of AB5 IMO. At least not in the next 5-10 years from now. Because by then, there's a good chance it won't even matter. Because the profit sink that is LyfUber will have long ceased to exist as the monopolies they now are. The entire house of cards foundation they're based on will dissolve once DK, his exec board and senior Uber execs cash in their chips.
> 
> ...


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> This is interesting.
> 
> here everyone is talking about ab5 and California when Oregon did it years ago?


LOL

Reality is rarely what most people think it is.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Amos69 said:


> LOL
> 
> Reality is rarely what most people think it is.


This can be applicable to so many things.
I wish for once people can be straight, esp with the news I've been following these last few days.


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## South Shore Driver (Jan 17, 2017)

I think the biggest problem with the rideshare model is Uber and Lyft control the price of the fare. If they were truly independent from us there would be essentially an auction for every ride where the complete details of every ride are known and the drivers make bids on what they want to charge.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

South Shore Driver said:


> I think the biggest problem with the rideshare model is Uber and Lyft control the price of the fare. If they were truly independent from us there would be essentially an auction for every ride where the complete details of every ride are known and the drivers make bids on what they want to charge.


naw the biggest problem is people calling it "share" thats fraud never was never will be

its a ponzi scam laundering stolen money thru human trafficking on real estate & salaries for friends & family rico organized crime

nothing to figure out, no algos needed, anyone with eyes or has driven for them a day with 3rd grade math skills can verify if you cant your iq is prob around 5 or youre being bribed by the ponzi scheme to see hear say nothing

it would take 5 minutes for states to tell uber lyft you must pay drivers 100% of this regulated trip minimum, mile minimum, minute minimum like they have with cabs for almost a century

.30-.60 per mile is on billions of receipts its so blatant they put it on paper they do not care you are being human trafficked the app is above all laws because of the bribes it pays


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