# We MUST all contact Lyft about Removing Earnings Breakdown



## tmofog (Sep 19, 2019)

Last night I called Lyft (or their overseas call center) and mentioned that their decision to remove us from seeing Earnings Breakdown will just continue to earn more distrust with drivers. I said it looks shady and that they are hiding increased fares from passengers. We have a RIGHT to see this and NEED this for tax purposes. I was told that Lyft sometimes removes 'features" and then waits to see what the feedback will be from drivers. Last December they 'removed' the 45+ Long Ride Notifications. After PERSISTENT complaints from drivers they restored it. DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

This is more important than you might think. As we all know, drivers are underpaid and have been underpaid for many years. When this first started, we were contracted to receive 80% of the fare. Then the newer drivers were contracted to receive 75% of the fare while the original drivers were still to receive 80% of the fare.

We all knew that Lyft was not charging enough and would need to raise the rates to a level that would cover the costs of providing the service along with a reasonable profit.

Lyft has now started to raise the rates, but they are not passing those increased fares onto the drivers. That was not the deal. This means that Lyft will not calculate the fares based on the percentages that the drivers were promised and entitled to. This also means that the fares will not be raised to a sustainable level so that Lyft can stay in business.


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

Bob Reynolds said:


> This is more important than you might think. As we all know, drivers are underpaid and have been underpaid for many years. When this first started, we were contracted to receive 80% of the fare. Then the newer drivers were contracted to receive 75% of the fare while the original drivers were still to receive 80% of the fare.
> 
> We all knew that Lyft was not charging enough and would need to raise the rates to a level that would cover the costs of providing the service along with a reasonable profit.
> 
> Lyft has now started to raise the rates, but they are not passing those increased fares onto the drivers. That was not the deal. This means that Lyft will not calculate the fares based on the percentages that the drivers were promised and entitled to. This also means that the fares will not be raised to a sustainable level so that Lyft can stay in business.


Where have you been dude, we've been getting paid rate and distance for a long while now. No percentages so as far as Lyft is concerned why do you need to know what the passenger is paying? It's got nothing to do with us, they charge the pax what they are willing to pay and they pay us based on the agreed upon rates.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Ski Free said:


> Where have you been dude, we've been getting paid rate and distance for a long while now. No percentages so as far as Lyft is concerned why do you need to know what the passenger is paying? It's got nothing to do with us, they charge the pax what they are willing to pay and they pay us based on the agreed upon rates.


it is what it is


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Ski Free said:


> Where have you been dude, we've been getting paid rate and distance for a long while now. No percentages so as far as Lyft is concerned why do you need to know what the passenger is paying? It's got nothing to do with us, they charge the pax what they are willing to pay and they pay us based on the agreed upon rates.


How long do you consider a "long while"?


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## PioneerXi (Apr 20, 2018)

Ski Free said:


> It's got nothing to do with us, they charge the pax what they are willing to pay and they pay us based on the agreed upon rates.


I disagree, in part.

My summary for last week is inaccurate. Lyft has deducted airport fees and the California Ride Tax in excess of the number of rides I completed.

I have asked Lyft Support for a breakdown fare by fare in order to determine the accurate amount of airport fees and taxes I should have paid. Without the breakdown, I am unable to tell if a Lyft has helped themselves to my earnings under the guise of "taxes and fees", or if some moron at Lyft can't do payroll.

Two days so far without a response.

I may keep the listed email addresses when I CC the IRS.


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

PioneerXi said:


> I disagree, in part.
> 
> My summary for last week is inaccurate. Lyft has deducted airport fees and the California Ride Tax in excess of the number of rides I completed.
> 
> ...


The taxes are paid by the pax not you. Your earnings are distance multiplied by the rate for your area and time multiplied by the rate for your area. There isn't anyone doing payroll dude, you aren't an employee.



Bob Reynolds said:


> How long do you consider a "long while"?


It's been well over a year.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Ski Free said:


> The taxes are paid by the pax not you. Your earnings are distance multiplied by the rate for your area and time multiplied by the rate for your area. There isn't anyone doing payroll dude, you aren't an employee.
> 
> 
> It's been well over a year.


Not where I drive.


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Not where I drive.


Which part?


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Orlando


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Orlando


No which part of my reply, you said not where I drive. The over a year for time and distance or the taxes are paid by you part.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I keep bouncing back emails to their canned response that the passenger pays the driver and we are required to report these numbers to the IRS and I can not keep proper business records with summaries. Standard accounting practices are to keep detailed sales transactions. My last email asked them if they were going to pay my attorney fees in case of an audit along with any fees, fines, penalties, and or interest imposed by the IRS because I don't have proper records.

I agree that if all driver press the issue they may start reporting it back to us.


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> I keep bouncing back emails to their canned response that the passenger pays the driver and we are required to report these numbers to the IRS and I can not keep proper business records with summaries. Standard accounting practices are to keep detailed sales transactions. My last email asked them if they were going to pay my attorney fees in case of an audit along with any fees, fines, penalties, and or interest imposed by the IRS because I don't have proper records.
> 
> I agree that if all driver press the issue they may start reporting it back to us.


You have what you were paid for each trip. You do not have what the passenger paid Lyft, why do you need that part of it? What the pax pays Lyft has no affect on what they pay you.


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## PioneerXi (Apr 20, 2018)

Ski Free said:


> The taxes are paid by the pax not you.


That is not correct.
The passenger pays a charge, whatever value Lyft chooses.

Lyft takes their fees, and as the drivers "agent" processes other fees and taxes, resulting in the issue of a 1099 at years end - showing what fees have been paid by the IC through the agent.

If Lyft takes an incorrect fee, or a fee that has not been incurred, their payroll division (Stripe) is accountable.


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

PioneerXi said:


> That is not correct.
> The passenger pays a charge, whatever value Lyft chooses.
> 
> Lyft takes their fees, and as the drivers "agent" processes other fees and taxes, resulting in the issue of a 1099 at years end - showing what fees have been paid by the IC through the agent.
> ...


Again if you are saying your drove 12 miles in 42 mins for Trip #123455432 and the pay you received is not equal to (12 miles * $0.60/ mile) + (42 mins * $0.21/min) then yes there is a problem. (Or whatever you're particular rates are). The fees are coming from the pax, not from you. The issue would be between the pax and Lyft, not you, you didn't receive the fee then had it deducted.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Ski Free said:


> You have what you were paid for each trip. You do not have what the passenger paid Lyft, why do you need that part of it? What the pax pays Lyft has no affect on what they pay you.


While what the Pax pays for the ride has no affect on the money you get when the transaction is done, it is still part of your total sales and the full amount the passenger pays is reported to the IRS as part of your income.

The passengers are not paying Lyft, they are paying you, through Lyft. What the passenger paid is part of your re-portable sales, Lyft does not report what the passenger paid as sales to Lyft, it is your sale and you report it when you file taxes. This is why we are considered 1099 workers and not employees. Lyft acts as a booking agent and a payment processor. Their fee that they keep from what the passenger paid us is what they report as income from us, not the passenger.

Think of it this way. Lets say you do handyman construction work and use a third party to book you jobs. You do the work and the customers pays by credit card. The total the customer pays you for the work is your income. You pay the booking company a finders fee and you pay your credit card a processing fee. These are expenses that reduce your taxable income. Uber and Lyft work exactly the same way. They are just handling the booking and payment processing themselves and keeping that fee per transaction before sending you the remainder of what the passenger paid. The full amount of what the passenger paid is your sales, not Uber/Lyfts sales.


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## ExtraMoneyUber (Oct 25, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> While what the Pax pays for the ride has no affect on the money you get when the transaction is done, it is still part of your total sales and the full amount the passenger pays is reported to the IRS as part of your income.
> 
> The passengers are not paying Lyft, they are paying you, through Lyft. What the passenger paid is part of your re-portable sales, Lyft does not report what the passenger paid as sales to Lyft, it is your sale and you report it when you file taxes. This is why we are considered 1099 workers and not employees. Lyft acts as a booking agent and a payment processor. Their fee that they keep from what the passenger paid us is what they report as income from us, not the passenger.
> 
> Think of it this way. Lets say you do handyman construction work and use a third party to book you jobs. You do the work and the customers pays by credit card. The total the customer pays you for the work is your income. You pay the booking company a finders fee and you pay your credit card a processing fee. These are expenses that reduce your taxable income. Uber and Lyft work exactly the same way. They are just handling the booking and payment processing themselves and keeping that fee per transaction before sending you the remainder of what the passenger paid. The full amount of what the passenger paid is your sales, not Uber/Lyfts sales.


As confirmation of what FLKeys said, here is a link that explains it as well. https://www.rhsmith.umd.edu/faculty...hts/tax-loophole-you-could-drive-uber-through
"Finally, we now see the advent of a fairly new terminology, the "third-party payment processor," found more often in the on-demand workforce. Here companies like Uber and Lyft take the position that they are just processing credit card payments for the drivers as the contract is between the customer and driver, not between the company and the driver. Lyft, for example, will report these payments processed on behalf of the drivers under rules of reporting third-party payments using Form 1099-K."


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> While what the Pax pays for the ride has no affect on the money you get when the transaction is done, it is still part of your total sales and the full amount the passenger pays is reported to the IRS as part of your income.
> 
> The passengers are not paying Lyft, they are paying you, through Lyft. What the passenger paid is part of your re-portable sales, Lyft does not report what the passenger paid as sales to Lyft, it is your sale and you report it when you file taxes. This is why we are considered 1099 workers and not employees. Lyft acts as a booking agent and a payment processor. Their fee that they keep from what the passenger paid us is what they report as income from us, not the passenger.
> 
> Think of it this way. Lets say you do handyman construction work and use a third party to book you jobs. You do the work and the customers pays by credit card. The total the customer pays you for the work is your income. You pay the booking company a finders fee and you pay your credit card a processing fee. These are expenses that reduce your taxable income. Uber and Lyft work exactly the same way. They are just handling the booking and payment processing themselves and keeping that fee per transaction before sending you the remainder of what the passenger paid. The full amount of what the passenger paid is your sales, not Uber/Lyfts sales.


None of this indicates why you need to know what the pax paid. You know the total and what you got, so you do know what the lax paid.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Ski Free said:


> None of this indicates why you need to know what the pax paid. You know the total and what you got, so you do know what the lax paid.


Standard business practices. If the IRS audits you, you are responsible for providing proper records. Part of proper records is individual sales transactions, not weekly summaries. I prefer to keep proper business records, not fly by the seat of my pants.

Maybe you don't care but I do, I just don't driver for Uber and Lyft, I conduct my driving as a business and keep proper business records. Ultimately proper business records can come into play when the IRS tries to say you have reported a loss for x number of years so we are considering this a hobby and now all of your deductions are disallowed. Please pay us all this back taxes, interest, and penalties.


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## tmofog (Sep 19, 2019)

Ski Free said:


> You have what you were paid for each trip. You do not have what the passenger paid Lyft, why do you need that part of it? What the pax pays Lyft has no affect on what they pay you.


People like YOU are the problem. Lyft is bending us over and it is our RIGHT to know what the passenger paid. Passengers see a breakdown and know exactly what the driver was paid. Attitudes like yours give Lyft the OK to gouge the passengers on our backs. If you prefer to be ignorant of what the passenger pays then don't look at it. Why take that away from every driver?


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## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> While what the Pax pays for the ride has no affect on the money you get when the transaction is done, it is still part of your total sales and the full amount the passenger pays is reported to the IRS as part of your income.
> 
> The passengers are not paying Lyft, they are paying you, through Lyft. What the passenger paid is part of your re-portable sales, Lyft does not report what the passenger paid as sales to Lyft, it is your sale and you report it when you file taxes. This is why we are considered 1099 workers and not employees. Lyft acts as a booking agent and a payment processor. Their fee that they keep from what the passenger paid us is what they report as income from us, not the passenger.
> 
> Think of it this way. Lets say you do handyman construction work and use a third party to book you jobs. You do the work and the customers pays by credit card. The total the customer pays you for the work is your income. You pay the booking company a finders fee and you pay your credit card a processing fee. These are expenses that reduce your taxable income. Uber and Lyft work exactly the same way. They are just handling the booking and payment processing themselves and keeping that fee per transaction before sending you the remainder of what the passenger paid. The full amount of what the passenger paid is your sales, not Uber/Lyfts sales.


Exactly this.



Ski Free said:


> Again if you are saying your drove 12 miles in 42 mins for Trip #123455432 and the pay you received is not equal to (12 miles * $0.60/ mile) + (42 mins * $0.21/min) then yes there is a problem. (Or whatever you're particular rates are). The fees are coming from the pax, not from you. The issue would be between the pax and Lyft, not you, you didn't receive the fee then had it deducted.


You are wrong, and stop the shilling for lyft. See above.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Ski Free said:


> Where have you been dude, we've been getting paid rate and distance for a long while now. No percentages so as far as Lyft is concerned why do you need to know what the passenger is paying? It's got nothing to do with us, they charge the pax what they are willing to pay and they pay us based on the agreed upon rates.


Why would you advocate less knowledge about where your money is coming from?

Just stop there and think about that. You're literally saying,

"Hey just man just bend over and take it, it's not our business how far Lyft puts it in"


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

tmofog said:


> Last night I called Lyft (or their overseas call center) and mentioned that their decision to remove us from seeing Earnings Breakdown will just continue to earn more distrust with drivers. I said it looks shady and that they are hiding increased fares from passengers. We have a RIGHT to see this and NEED this for tax purposes. I was told that Lyft sometimes removes 'features" and then waits to see what the feedback will be from drivers. Last December they 'removed' the 45+ Long Ride Notifications. After PERSISTENT complaints from drivers they restored it. DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS.


Yeah and then they hung up and asked each other in their native language what the heck you were talking about.

Who cares anyway?


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## Funky Monkey (Jul 11, 2016)

tmofog said:


> Last night I called Lyft (or their overseas call center) and mentioned that their decision to remove us from seeing Earnings Breakdown will just continue to earn more distrust with drivers. I said it looks shady and that they are hiding increased fares from passengers. We have a RIGHT to see this and NEED this for tax purposes. I was told that Lyft sometimes removes 'features" and then waits to see what the feedback will be from drivers. Last December they 'removed' the 45+ Long Ride Notifications. After PERSISTENT complaints from drivers they restored it. DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS.


I can't freakin' believe the day has come where Lyft is worse, much worse than Uber. Oh, and I think their app sucks


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

My experience with Lyft has not changed since I stopped seeing what the pax paid.
I don't care if the pax paid $100 for a ride that I got $10 on, or if they paid $1 for that ride.
However, since the pax is paying ME and not Lyft, I should be able to see what the pax paid.
I'd like to think that what they're doing is illegal, but I suspect their team of 1,000 attorneys said they could do this.


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Why would you advocate less knowledge about where your money is coming from?
> 
> Just stop there and think about that. You're literally saying,
> 
> "Hey just man just bend over and take it, it's not our business how far Lyft puts it in"


I know where my money is coming from and how much I am do. I get paid a set amount for distance and time. Bonuses here and there but I am under no illusion that Uber/Lyft are my partner. It's not my business what they are charging, I'm not part of that transaction and neither are you, we used to be but upfront pricing ended that.



tmofog said:


> People like YOU are the problem. Lyft is bending us over and it is our RIGHT to know what the passenger paid. Passengers see a breakdown and know exactly what the driver was paid. Attitudes like yours give Lyft the OK to gouge the passengers on our backs. If you prefer to be ignorant of what the passenger pays then don't look at it. Why take that away from every driver?


Passengers have NEVER seen what the driver gets. Why do you care what the pax pays? It's not going to change what you get paid.


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Bob Reynolds said:


> This is more important than you might think. As we all know, drivers are underpaid and have been underpaid for many years. When this first started, we were contracted to receive 80% of the fare. Then the newer drivers were contracted to receive 75% of the fare while the original drivers were still to receive 80% of the fare.
> 
> We all knew that Lyft was not charging enough and would need to raise the rates to a level that would cover the costs of providing the service along with a reasonable profit.
> 
> Lyft has now started to raise the rates, but they are not passing those increased fares onto the drivers. That was not the deal. This means that Lyft will not calculate the fares based on the percentages that the drivers were promised and entitled to. This also means that the fares will not be raised to a sustainable level so that Lyft can stay in business.


Strike is only solution, no question about it!


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Lyft has been a shady, smoke and mirror company for a very long time and yes it has gotten worse and will continue to get worse. After getting bent over for the last time on a switched ride (accepted one lucrative ride, then they switched it to another bogus shitshow ride on the way to the pick up) I finally had enough. I deleted my Lyft app in March 2019 and haven't missed them a bit.

Crying isn't going to work, there will never be a strike, and all the letters to customer support in the world won't work as long as drivers keep taking their rides. Free yourself from Lyft's BS and delete the app. Most people make no "significant" profit from them anyway.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Ski Free said:


> I know where my money is coming from and how much I am do. I get paid a set amount for distance and time. Bonuses here and there but I am under no illusion that Uber/Lyft are my partner. It's not my business what they are charging, I'm not part of that transaction and neither are you, we used to be but upfront pricing ended that.
> 
> 
> Passengers have NEVER seen what the driver gets. Why do you care what the pax pays? It's not going to change what you get paid.


Naw but at events where Uber charges pax $150 to go 10 miles but only pay drivers $15 surge, drivers with commercial insurance can charge $75 dollars a trip off app.

That's just one common circumstance where knowledge you think drivers don't need equals a lot more money.


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Naw but at events where Uber charges pax $150 to go 10 miles but only pay drivers $15 surge, drivers with commercial insurance can charge $75 dollars a trip off app.
> 
> That's just one common circumstance where knowledge you think drivers don't need equals a lot more money.


You don't need to give a ride to get this information, open the pax app and see what they are charging. How will m owing what Lyft charged on a ride you already gave benefit you, it won't.


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## ubergrind (May 23, 2017)

While we complain all we want, Lyft/ Uber isn't going to increase our take. I have found that both companies regularly take 40- 50% of long trips during surge rides over 20 miles. Lyft will sometimes adjust their price gouging tactics and throw you an extra 10-15 on top of your normal surge. You can either get a commercial license or you can just offer a cash ride. Yes, I am aware of the risk of cash rides and find that risk acceptable.

Most of the passengers I take have Venmo, Paypal or some form or electronic payment. Usually when it is a non corporate ride and the passenger is having to come out of pocket, they are perfectly fine with paying 10 dollars less than whatever the Uber/Lyft upfront price is. 

I routinely check to see what the cost is for an airport ride and know before I am going if Uber/Lyft is likely collecting more than the 25 % take rate. Usually when I pull up to the passenger, the customer is already pissed about paying 2x, 3x more than what they normally pay. When I explain to them that Uber isn't passing that along to me, they typically don't mind paying my friends and family rate to get to the airport. 

What the passenger pays to Uber and what the driver's paid by uber should be shared with all 3 parties to the transaction. Most passengers still believe this is a well paying job and we are getting a significant portion especially if the passenger billed double, triple or more. Just from looking at my number's I rarely get tipped when it's a surge ride. Just from eyeballing the data, I may come out ahead on 25 + mile trips to the airport during non surge rides on avg than I do when it's surging. Passenger's are more likely to leave a tip of 6 + dollars when they feel they aren't being charged significantly higher than the normal rate. Anecdotal evidence only, but it would be interesting to play this out over long distance trips to the airport.


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## Negg (Jun 26, 2019)

Dumbest complaint ever. Why does it matter ? Just move on.


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## VictorD (Apr 30, 2017)

tmofog said:


> Passengers see a breakdown and know exactly what the driver was paid.


Were you born stupid, or is it a personal achievement?



ubergrind said:


> You can either get a commercial license or you can just offer a cash ride.


The problem with that is that commercially-plated vehicles are considered livery vehicles which Lyft has stopped allowing on their platform to eliminate competition with Uber BLACK vehicles, all of which are required to bear commercial plates. The only exception to this is NYC where all transportation vehicles are required by law to be registered under NY TL&C and carry full commercial insurance.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

It's very simple. If we are independent contractors and Uber and Lyft want to report what pax paid as somehow drivers earnings on our 1099 then we should see what they paid after each and every trip since that is supposed to be our responsibility. Plain and simple.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Ski Free said:


> You don't need to give a ride to get this information, open the pax app and see what they are charging. How will m owing what Lyft charged on a ride you already gave benefit you, it won't.


Ah yes it still does, I've pulled up past rides and have called Uber for adjustments. The most recent one only being a few days ago.

I think you're going to defend this shady practice no matter what to be honest. YOU can keep telling yourself that.

However you are not going to convince anyone ignorance is good for them.


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Ah yes it still does, I've pulled up past rides and have called Uber for adjustments. The most recent one only being a few days ago.
> 
> I think you're going to defend this shady practice no matter what to be honest. YOU can keep telling yourself that.
> 
> However you are not going to convince anyone ignorance is good for them.


Adjustments for what?


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Ski Free said:


> Adjustments for what?


Depends, most adjustments are over payment percentage. We are paid at a set rate however if that set rate throws the percentage of payment off enough, Uber refunds the deference.

Lyft is notorious for not doing this, actually the opposite.They can and do charge pax $10 surge and pay drive base rate.

They are able to do this because of drivers like you. I just flat out stopped driving for Lyft because of their many underhanded practices and policy's.


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Depends, most adjustments are over payment percentage. We are paid at a set rate however if that set rate throws the percentage of payment off enough, Uber refunds the deference.
> 
> Lyft is notorious for not doing this, actually the opposite.They can and do charge pax $10 surge and pay drive base rate.
> 
> They are able to do this because of drivers like you. I just flat out stopped driving for Lyft because of their many underhanded practices and policy's.


That's a load of crap and you know it.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Ski Free said:


> That's a load of crap and you know it.


No it's not, press search and you will find many examples of drivers doing this.

You were ignorant on a subject. You can rather learn and be a better individual for it, or keep hold to your past beliefs with knowledge that it's wrong.


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## Ski Free (Jul 16, 2017)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> No it's not, press search and you will find many examples of drivers doing this.
> 
> You were ignorant on a subject. You can rather learn and be a better individual for it, or keep hold to your past beliefs with knowledge that it's wrong.


Uber's "surge" model is different than Lyft's. Lyft has never said their PPZ would pay any more than the dollar amount on the screen, Uber has said and it does happen that the surge on the screen is adjusted to a higher amount when the passenger pays more. No wiggle room on the Lyft side of things PPZ is never adjusted.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Ski Free said:


> Uber's "surge" model is different than Lyft's. Lyft has never said their PPZ would pay any more than the dollar amount on the screen, Uber has said and it does happen that the surge on the screen is adjusted to a higher amount when the passenger pays more. No wiggle room on the Lyft side of things PPZ is never adjusted.


Does that make what I said any less true ?

You were/is wrong, get over it.


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## deplorable1 (Apr 14, 2018)

tmofog said:


> Last night I called Lyft (or their overseas call center) and mentioned that their decision to remove us from seeing Earnings Breakdown will just continue to earn more distrust with drivers. I said it looks shady and that they are hiding increased fares from passengers. We have a RIGHT to see this and NEED this for tax purposes. I was told that Lyft sometimes removes 'features" and then waits to see what the feedback will be from drivers. Last December they 'removed' the 45+ Long Ride Notifications. After PERSISTENT complaints from drivers they restored it. DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS.


Why do you still drive for Lyft? Are you allowed on Uber platform? At what rate (cents/mile) would you stop driving for Lyft?


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Bob Reynolds said:


> This is more important than you might think. As we all know, drivers are underpaid and have been underpaid for many years. When this first started, we were contracted to receive 80% of the fare. Then the newer drivers were contracted to receive 75% of the fare while the original drivers were still to receive 80% of the fare.
> 
> We all knew that Lyft was not charging enough and would need to raise the rates to a level that would cover the costs of providing the service along with a reasonable profit.
> 
> Lyft has now started to raise the rates, but they are not passing those increased fares onto the drivers. That was not the deal. This means that Lyft will not calculate the fares based on the percentages that the drivers were promised and entitled to. This also means that the fares will not be raised to a sustainable level so that Lyft can stay in business.


----------------------
When I started driving for Lyft, the rate was 75% to me & 25% to Lyft. On January 1, 2018, that percentage changed to Lyft from 40% to 75% and crumbs for me. I suspect that changes in Corporate Tax structure allowed this, thanks to changes made for corporations by the Trump Administration. As far as I know the lower rates have never been grandfathered in to the current day, meaning , no one is currently getting 75%.
_______________________________
Since most of the public complaints by drivers is that Lyft takes so much money out of drivers earnings, it would only be logical that Lyft wants to close that avenue of knowledge. How ?? By not allowing the driver to see what they are charging the pax and keeping for the company. Frankly, I am surprised they did not do it sooner.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

tmofog said:


> their decision to remove us from seeing Earnings Breakdown will just continue to earn _*more*_ distrust with drivers.


That's no longer possible..... ?‍♂


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

Man who cares how much the pax paid? U want to know so u can come here and complain? There is not a thing anyone can do about earnings cuz there is to many pathedic ants who don't care about earnings. The less they pay the more their willing to work


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

RideshareDog said:


> Man who cares how much the pax paid? U want to know so u can come here and complain? There is not a thing anyone can do about earnings cuz there is to many pathedic ants who don't care about earnings. The less they pay the more their willing to work


I care because it is my gross earnings and part of what gets reported to the IRS. I really don't care what percent Lyft keeps, as long as I get paid the rate I am promised per mile and minute.

Since I have been arguing this point with Lyft they are throttling me back. Last week I only received 2 ride request from Lyft for the week, 52 hours online. Both rides were odd times where I was the only driver online within 8 miles.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

RideshareDog said:


> Man who cares how much the pax paid? U want to know so u can come here and complain? There is not a thing anyone can do about earnings cuz there is to many pathedic ants who don't care about earnings. The less they pay the more their willing to work


Seriously, you don't mind getting ripped off by Lyft


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## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

RideshareDog said:


> Man who cares how much the pax paid? U want to know so u can come here and complain? There is not a thing anyone can do about earnings cuz there is to many pathedic ants who don't care about earnings. The less they pay the more their willing to work


Yep that's the exact reason I want to know. And it's sad that you don't care.. which makes you most of the problem. Your inaction is exactly what LYFT is hoping for because if you let them get away with it and don't complain what's to stop them from changing the next thing and the next... Your just going to take it like a good ? should...

When you accept bad behavior it's the same as asking for it.

Why stop treating people like shyt when they never complain and they benefit from it...

Great example is me paying half my rent... If the landlord doesn't complain hell I'll do it every month...

Man up and speak up or settle for less. I REFUSE to be manipulated without complaint.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

Dekero said:


> Yep that's the exact reason I want to know. And it's sad that you don't care.. which makes you most of the problem. Your inaction is exactly what LYFT is hoping for because if you let them get away with it and don't complain what's to stop them from changing the next thing and the next... Your just going to take it like a good ? should...
> 
> When you accept bad behavior it's the same as asking for it.
> 
> ...


First I've complained believe you me but it goes on def ears cuz this is world of the sad and desperate. Complaining on here achieves nothing. And chance will never happen cuz luber has money and we don't. And there is two groups of us at conflict with each other. Part timers VS full timers


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

tmofog said:


> Last night I called Lyft (or their overseas call center) and mentioned that their decision to remove us from seeing Earnings Breakdown will just continue to earn more distrust with drivers. I said it looks shady and that they are hiding increased fares from passengers. We have a RIGHT to see this and NEED this for tax purposes. I was told that Lyft sometimes removes 'features" and then waits to see what the feedback will be from drivers. Last December they 'removed' the 45+ Long Ride Notifications. After PERSISTENT complaints from drivers they restored it. DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS.


https://jalopnik.com/i-wonder-what-they-are-hiding-lyft-drivers-can-no-long-1839224300


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

I wonder if they did this cuz I and others were posting screenshots of lyfts cut being $0 or being in the negative. Can't have their investors seeing they aren't making a profit on a ride


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## Alantc (Jun 15, 2018)

tmofog said:


> Last night I called Lyft (or their overseas call center) and mentioned that their decision to remove us from seeing Earnings Breakdown will just continue to earn more distrust with drivers. I said it looks shady and that they are hiding increased fares from passengers. We have a RIGHT to see this and NEED this for tax purposes. I was told that Lyft sometimes removes 'features" and then waits to see what the feedback will be from drivers. Last December they 'removed' the 45+ Long Ride Notifications. After PERSISTENT complaints from drivers they restored it. DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS.


And why we don't get any of the surge pricing anymore


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

I'm not going to take any trips for Lyft until the info is back. Enough is enough.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

touberornottouber said:


> I'm not going to take any trips for Lyft until the info is back. Enough is enough.


Lol hahahahahahahahah. U people are rediculous. 
Do tell us why u NEED to know what the PAX paid or how much lyft took. Planning on suing them? Or do u need something to write about on this site?


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

Wakey wakey hands off snakey. We need to see the rider payment and breakdown so we can see if Lyft is passing on some/all of a given tip or just pretending it never happened.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

RideshareDog said:


> Lol hahahahahahahahah. U people are rediculous.
> Do tell us why u NEED to know what the PAX paid or how much lyft took. Planning on suing them? Or do u need something to write about on this site?


What the passenger paid is reported to the IRS as your business income. If you don't know what each passenger paid how could you possibly audit what was reported as your business income? You can't. Now you have to trust a company with weekly summaries. I don't trust them.

Now lets say for some reason the IRS disputes your reported income and wants to see a sales record by transaction. You can't provide it. Do you really think Lyft will back you up? How many businesses don't have individual transaction records? I personally don't know any outside of Lyft drivers now.

It just opens the door to fraud.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> What the passenger paid is reported to the IRS as your business income. If you don't know what each passenger paid how could you possibly audit what was reported as your business income? You can't. Now you have to trust a company with weekly summaries. I don't trust them.
> 
> Now lets say for some reason the IRS disputes your reported income and wants to see a sales record by transaction. You can't provide it. Do you really think Lyft will back you up? How many businesses don't have individual transaction records? I personally don't know any outside of Lyft drivers now.
> 
> It just opens the door to fraud.


Let's say bigs can fly lol. Your IRS would be happy with weekly reports and quarterly tax summaries
. How on earth do you know they wouldn't. Have u talked to them? Talked to a tax lawyer? Talked to any professional? Nope. Go research then come back crying about lyft

NO IT DOESN'T OPEN THE DOOR TO FRAUD!


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

RideshareDog said:


> Let's say bigs can fly lol. Your IRS would be happy with weekly reports and quarterly tax summaries
> . How on earth do you know they wouldn't. Have u talked to them? Talked to a tax lawyer? Talked to any professional? Nope. Go research then come back crying about lyft
> 
> NO IT DOESN'T OPEN THE DOOR TO FRAUD!


I have been doing business accounting work for 20+ years and still do as my primary day job. I have had to send plenty of detailed records to the tax account multiple times for both IRS audits and State of Florida audits. I have seen auditors go through sales records with fine tooth combs.

Some independent contractors like to keep proper business records. I like to keep proper business records. If you don't want to keep proper records that is your choice just like it is my choice to keep proper business records.

Also just for the record you can not ask the IRS for tax advice, they will not give it, they will send you a nice 2 page generic letter telling you they can not give tax advice. Don't believe me, ask them a detailed specific question in writing and see what response you get.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> I have been doing business accounting work for 20+ years and still do as my primary day job. I have had to send plenty of detailed records to the tax account multiple times for both IRS audits and State of Florida audits. I have seen auditors go through sales records with fine tooth combs.
> 
> Some independent contractors like to keep proper business records. I like to keep proper business records. If you don't want to keep proper records that is your choice just like it is my choice to keep proper business records.
> 
> Also just for the record you can not ask the IRS for tax advice, they will not give it, they will send you a nice 2 page generic letter telling you they can not give tax advice. Don't believe me, ask them a detailed specific question in writing and see what response you get.


Who cares what u "WANT". I want prime time back not going to happen. U don't need them. The summaries are enough I'm sure lyft has made sure they meet IRS minium requirements. And if your IRS wants individual records they can go sue lyft themselves and get it.

Don't like it. Delete the app or go sue them in court


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

RideshareDog said:


> Who cares what u "WANT". I want prime time back not going to happen. U don't need them. The summaries are enough I'm sure lyft has made sure they meet IRS minium requirements. And if your IRS wants individual records they can go sue lyft themselves and get it.
> 
> Don't like it. Delete the app or go sue them in court


Wow, you are an angry person. Just care about yourself. I'm so glad you are sure Lyft meets the IRS minimum requirements. Guess that settles it, you are all knowing.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> Wow, you are an angry person. Just care about yourself. I'm so glad you are sure Lyft meets the IRS minimum requirements. Guess that settles it, you are all knowing.


I'm not an angry person just cuz I see no point in complaining about a change that in reality is one of their lesser damaging changes. But hey its an open forum cry all u want. Lyft does read these posts maybe they will reconsider just cuz your unhappy lol hahahha


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Ok. It seems there are some who just aren't getting it. We won't name any names. But since words aren't working let's use moving pictures . The question needs to be asked...






My personal reason: I like to periodically divide the amount I earn from a ride by the amount paid by the pax for a given trip. That renders a percentage of what the split is between me and the ride sharing company for that particular trip. Why? I like to keep track of exactly how Lyft is F'ing me. I record these percentages over time so that I can see how they are F'ing me over time. On a per ride basis. Perhaps one day the % will hit a threshold whereby I will choose to no longer get F'd by them.

If that is too complicated here is another video to explain the concern...


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> Ok. It seems there are some who just aren't getting it. We won't name any names. But since words aren't working let's use moving pictures . The question needs to be asked...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That doesn't explain why u need to know what percentage they take for each ride since the weekly summary does that. It just explains you have way to much time on your hands to be doing data entry for each ride. Time you should be using to better yourself.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Bob Reynolds said:


> That was not the deal.


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Another reason I like to get the rider payment / driver payment percentage is that it provides a handy check as to whether the time and mileage for the ride has been calculated correctly. If the Lyft algo suddenly makes a "mistake" and starts crediting rides for say, only half the distance and time, the % earned will also sharply skew down and alert the driver to trouble.

Regardless, it is a mystery as to why anyone who didn't care about knowing what the pax pays would even bother posting to a thread such as this. Let those who do care raise their voices w/o fellow drivers watering down the argument. Surely no one would feel they would be too confused from having the information. Which is what Lyft is inferring.

BTW - The way Lyft could make my driver numbers more clear (which is what they are insisting they're doing) is to allow us to download the raw ride data each week to a spreadsheet, as Uber does. Jeez, when a company make an outfit like Uber look good you know you're dealing with a pretty screwed up company.


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## Don’t mess with nerds (Oct 23, 2019)

tmofog said:


> Last night I called Lyft (or their overseas call center) and mentioned that their decision to remove us from seeing Earnings Breakdown will just continue to earn more distrust with drivers. I said it looks shady and that they are hiding increased fares from passengers. We have a RIGHT to see this and NEED this for tax purposes. I was told that Lyft sometimes removes 'features" and then waits to see what the feedback will be from drivers. Last December they 'removed' the 45+ Long Ride Notifications. After PERSISTENT complaints from drivers they restored it. DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS.


Do I have to explain what Lyft's response would be.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> Another reason I like to get the rider payment / driver payment percentage is that it provides a handy check as to whether the time and mileage for the ride has been calculated correctly. If the Lyft algo suddenly makes a "mistake" and starts crediting rides for say, only half the distance and time, the % earned will also sharply skew down and alert the driver to trouble.
> 
> Regardless, it is a mystery as to why anyone who didn't care about knowing what the pax pays would even bother posting to a thread such as this. Let those who do care raise their voices w/o fellow drivers watering down the argument. Surely no one would feel they would be too confused from having the information. Which is what Lyft is inferring.
> 
> BTW - The way Lyft could make my driver numbers more clear (which is what they are insisting they're doing) is to allow us to download the raw ride data each week to a spreadsheet, as Uber does. Jeez, when a company make an outfit like Uber look good you know you're dealing with a pretty screwed up company.


What the **** are you talking about. U want to see what the pax paid to make sure the time and distance was paid correctly? It's called Google maps. You put in pickup and drop off to see if lyft calculated correctly. Or do this thing called math to figure out if this is correct. I can assure you the app knows how to do basic math


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## tmofog (Sep 19, 2019)

Funny thing happened....a passenger's boss paid for the ride and she wanted to know how much? I sarcastically said we are no longer privy to that information. Then I checked just for shits and giggles after the ride ended and the Earnings Breakdown is BACK!!!!!!!
Lyft was being shady by removing this without ANY explanation. Our feedback changed their minds. FIGHT THE POWER!!!!!!


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

tmofog said:


> Funny thing happened....a passenger's boss paid for the ride and she wanted to know how much? I sarcastically said we are no longer privy to that information. Then I checked just for shits and giggles after the ride ended and the Earnings Breakdown is BACK!!!!!!!
> Lyft was being shady by removing this without ANY explanation. Our feedback changed their minds. FIGHT THE POWER!!!!!!


I just looked I don't see where it is back????


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## VictorD (Apr 30, 2017)

I don't see what the big surprise is. I told you idiots *MONTHS *ago that this was coming. Any @@@@@@@ with half a brain could have predicted it.

Hate to be the one to have to, once again, be the standardbearer of truth, but your _want _is *not *your right to have it. Uber/Lyft have no obligation to provide any information to drivers other than how drivers are compensated and the rates they will receive. Driver compensation is paid via set per mile/minute rate, not a percentage commission of the pax fare. Because driver compensation is *not *based on the rider's fare the driver has *no *right to demand that information, nor can Uber/Lyft be compelled to provide it. Drivers will _still _know all information to which they are entitled once this change is implemented.

Expect Uber to soon follow.


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## Negg (Jun 26, 2019)

This might be the dumbest ***** ever. There is nothing you can do. My god let it go. If lyft want to charge the pax $100 to go 2 blocks and give you $5. Wtf are you going to do ? Nothing. My god.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

VictorD said:


> I don't see what the big surprise is. I told you idiots *MONTHS *ago that this was coming. Any @@@@@@@ with half a brain could have predicted it.
> 
> Hate to be the one to have to, once again, be the standardbearer of truth, but your _want _is *not *your right to have it. Uber/Lyft have no obligation to provide any information to drivers other than how drivers are compensated and the rates they will receive. Driver compensation is paid via set per mile/minute rate, not a percentage commission of the pax fare. Because driver compensation is *not *based on the rider's fare the driver has *no *right to demand that information, nor can Uber/Lyft be compelled to provide it. Drivers will _still _know all information to which they are entitled once this change is implemented.
> 
> Expect Uber to soon follow.


As much as I agree with u there is something you got wrong here. When it comes to taxes you need to know how much you grossed (total of what the pax paid you) yes its you they are paying not lyft or Uber as far as the tax man is concerned. And lyft does provide you with that information both as a weekly report and annual or quarterly summaries. And ya they have no obligation to us to provide us with anything more. These guys will do the bare min required by law. Don't like it guys delete the app and move on. Or waste more time complaining on here.

If there is something to complain about complain that this halloween weekend will be our worst Halloween weekend ever with no pt to boost earnings. Us lyft only drivers will be seeing Uber drivers racking it in. Ya **** you lyft!


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

Negg said:


> This might be the dumbest @@@@@ ever. There is nothing you can do. My god let it go. If lyft want to charge the pax $100 to go 2 blocks and give you $5. Wtf are you going to do ? Nothing. My god.


"uber lyft charging you $100 & ill only get $10, please cancel or i will & will accept ..... via cash paypal square or wait 5-20+ minutes for someone that thinks thats etihical"

its only during bad weather or large events here, neither which I work anymore, ill just wait till the next day & get my normal $50+ an hour xl fare.

never in my life will i complete a ride knowing uber lyft charge $100-150+ & only offer me a $9.50-$14 surge price or "bonus" lmao i check rider app regularly & after i accept trip cuz im at home

da fuq i look like risking my life so these criminals make $100+ an hour off my sweat equity, the $9-19 they take on the 100 they charge pax for my rides is too much far as im concerned lol

homey dont play that insulting ish & whatever genius who never worked a day in their life that thinks theyre clever that thinks this and taking 90% of surges is a bright idea belongs in a jail cell next to big dick buster(godfather of harlem reference) i pray their entire bloodlines get cancer lol


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## ubergrind (May 23, 2017)

troothequalstroll said:


> "uber lyft charging you $100 & ill only get $10, please cancel or i will & will accept ..... via cash paypal square or wait 5-20+ minutes for someone that thinks thats etihical"
> 
> its only during bad weather or large events here, neither which I work anymore, ill just wait till the next day & get my normal $50+ an hour xl fare.
> 
> ...


Since most of my trips are going to the same place, from the same general pickup area I will check the app, view the price and determine if possible trip is worth my time. If you really want make yourself mad, compare the estimated time a Lyft trip will take from that address, and run the same trip in Google Maps/Waze. They tend to overestimate trip times in order to pocket a few extra bucks per trip and not have to pass that along to the driver. It's even worse with bad weather. Basically surge pricing but nothing passed on to the drivers. There's a reason that Lyft just delivered outstanding quarterly results. Upfront Pricing at its finest!

Not a whole lot we can do about this since we are forced to agree to their terms to access the platform. However, I have no issue turning an overpriced ride in which I perform the work/ assume the risk into my friends and family rate for 10 dollars less than whatever the quoted upfront price is. Cash, Venmo, Paypal, Square reader are all accepted. Every single passenger within reason is getting long hauled without question on the route that is best for my business at the time I choose to drive. I don't ask if they have a preferred route, and usually only 1 out of 100 will complain.

If I did this job full time and had something besides a paid off fully depreciated vehicle, I would turn Uber/Lyft into a lead generation machine. Didn't Travis himself say "Always Be Hustling". Take his words to heart and figure out your own risk tolerance.


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

FLKeys said:


> I care because it is my gross earnings and part of what gets reported to the IRS. I really don't care what percent Lyft keeps, as long as I get paid the rate I am promised per mile and minute.


You're wasting your time typing out this logic and sense. This thread is exhibit A of why rideshare unions or any type of driver solidarity is a futile idea. Thank goodness Lyft drivers are just faux business owners or there would be some ants in deep, deep doo doo.


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

RideshareDog said:


> What the @@@@ are you talking about. U want to see what the pax paid to make sure the time and distance was paid correctly? It's called Google maps. You put in pickup and drop off to see if lyft calculated correctly. Or do this thing called math to figure out if this is correct. I can assure you the app knows how to do basic math :smiles:


Sorry friend, I think it may be you who is not doing the math. Your question is so shortsighted it does not deserve a specific answer. You are thinking in terms of one ride. I am thinking in terms of all the rides for the week or month. I am thinking in terms of being able to download the data to a spreadsheet and let the formulas I have entered do the math, and let me see my ride margins at a glance. I am thinking in terms of if Lyft really wanted to simplify things for the driver they would make information easier to obtain rather than hiding it.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

tmofog said:


> People like YOU are the problem. Lyft is bending us over and it is our RIGHT to know what the passenger paid. Passengers see a breakdown and know exactly what the driver was paid. Attitudes like yours give Lyft the OK to gouge the passengers on our backs. If you prefer to be ignorant of what the passenger pays then don't look at it. Why take that away from every driver?


As a rider using lyft more than Uber I usually pay About $15 for a 8 to 10 mile trip depending on the time of day, lyft definitely need to be more transparent with there drivers, It was 80/20 when I was out there ride share driving, They should've kept the percentage instead of this low bogus miles and minutes pay.


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## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> While what the Pax pays for the ride has no affect on the money you get when the transaction is done, it is still part of your total sales and the full amount the passenger pays is reported to the IRS as part of your income.
> 
> The passengers are not paying Lyft, they are paying you, through Lyft. What the passenger paid is part of your re-portable sales, Lyft does not report what the passenger paid as sales to Lyft, it is your sale and you report it when you file taxes. This is why we are considered 1099 workers and not employees. Lyft acts as a booking agent and a payment processor. Their fee that they keep from what the passenger paid us is what they report as income from us, not the passenger.
> 
> Think of it this way. Lets say you do handyman construction work and use a third party to book you jobs. You do the work and the customers pays by credit card. The total the customer pays you for the work is your income. You pay the booking company a finders fee and you pay your credit card a processing fee. These are expenses that reduce your taxable income. Uber and Lyft work exactly the same way. They are just handling the booking and payment processing themselves and keeping that fee per transaction before sending you the remainder of what the passenger paid. The full amount of what the passenger paid is your sales, not Uber/Lyfts sales.


Wrong! Lyft pays us through Stripe, the pax has no contract with us! We are an independent contractor for Lyft. Lyft books the rides, takes the money, invoices the pax, and pays tax to taxing authorities, pays CC processing fees, and pays us. All of these fees are deductible operating expenses for Lyft, so they pay tax only on the profit after deducting all these and other operating expenses and taxes, including our IC payments. We do NOT need to know what Lyft collects in order to do our taxes. Your logic about the handyman work is incorrect. As a handyman, YOU hire the bookkeeper, and they act as YOUR agent. With rideshare, Lyft hires us and pays us according to contractual arrangement. We are independent contractors for THEM, whereas your handyman accountant is an independent contractor for YOU, and you must give THEM a 1099. If you are using the rider payments IN ANY WAY as part of your personal tax reporting, you are doing it wrong! You should have a serious talk with an accountant. 



tmofog said:


> People like YOU are the problem. Lyft is bending us over and it is our RIGHT to know what the passenger paid. Passengers see a breakdown and know exactly what the driver was paid. Attitudes like yours give Lyft the OK to gouge the passengers on our backs. If you prefer to be ignorant of what the passenger pays then don't look at it. Why take that away from every driver?


How is it our RIGHT to know what the passenger paid?! This information is not necessary for us to see if our contract with Lyft is being honored. Yes, of course I resent them taking it away, since they did that to obfuscate the FACT that they are ripping us blind with the new rate system. But come on, it's not so hard to calculate and all you need to do is put in the starting and ending points in the pax app to find it out. PITA, yes - but Lyft is within their "rights" to withhold the information. Frankly, I'm surprised they ever included it.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

I am way more concerned about the amount they take "on average" than them not showing the break down. I looked at my last few week summaries and it was about 37 to 40%. This might be because I don't take enough rides with Lyft so my average is low. But still I would like this to be in the 30% and below range. This means the rider is getting a good rate and can be more likely to tip. If the rides are consistently only paying the driver 60-65% that means the rider is getting gouged most of the time.



Jenga said:


> Wrong! Lyft pays us through Stripe, the pax has no contract with us! We are an independent contractor for Lyft. Lyft books the rides, takes the money, invoices the pax, and pays tax to taxing authorities, pays CC processing fees, and pays us. All of these fees are deductible operating expenses for Lyft, so they pay tax only on the profit after deducting all these and other operating expenses and taxes, including our IC payments. We do NOT need to know what Lyft collects in order to do our taxes. Your logic about the handyman work is incorrect. As a handyman, YOU hire the bookkeeper, and they act as YOUR agent. With rideshare, Lyft hires us and pays us according to contractual arrangement. We are independent contractors for THEM, whereas your handyman accountant is an independent contractor for YOU, and you must give THEM a 1099. If you are using the rider payments IN ANY WAY as part of your personal tax reporting, you are doing it wrong! You should have a serious talk with an accountant.
> 
> 
> How is it our RIGHT to know what the passenger paid?! This information is not necessary for us to see if our contract with Lyft is being honored. Yes, of course I resent them taking it away, since they did that to obfuscate the FACT that they are ripping us blind with the new rate system. But come on, it's not so hard to calculate and all you need to do is put in the starting and ending points in the pax app to find it out. PITA, yes - but Lyft is within their "rights" to withhold the information. Frankly, I'm surprised they ever included it.


I am guessing most likely the decision to take it away is how taxing it was on their support system. There are other factors I am sure. Think if each driver made a case every day because of the marginal amount, that would increase support "tickets" by many thousands per day.


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## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

RideshareDog said:


> As much as I agree with u there is something you got wrong here. When it comes to taxes you need to know how much you grossed (total of what the pax paid you) yes its you they are paying not lyft or Uber as far as the tax man is concerned. And lyft does provide you with that information both as a weekly report and annual or quarterly summaries. And ya they have no obligation to us to provide us with anything more. These guys will do the bare min required by law. Don't like it guys delete the app and move on. Or waste more time complaining on here.
> 
> If there is something to complain about complain that this halloween weekend will be our worst Halloween weekend ever with no pt to boost earnings. Us lyft only drivers will be seeing Uber drivers racking it in. Ya @@@@ you lyft!


Amazing how many people are doing their taxes wrong! Repeat: you *should NOT* report the rider fees on your tax form. *The pax does not pay you.* *Lyft does!* The ONLY figure you need from Lyft is the total amount received from Lyft on the 1099 they issue to you. These are your reportable earnings. You can then expense your vehicle using either the flat per mile deduction or depreciation and costs.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

Jenga said:


> Amazing how many people are doing their taxes wrong! Repeat: you do not need to report the rider fees on your tax form. The ONLY figure you need is the total amount received from Lyft on the 1099 they issue to you.


Well I don't how your taxes works in the states but here in Canada as an independent contractor you need to report your gross earnings (total of what the pax paid you) I can't believe it would be any different in the states since the pax isn't paying luber but paying you and Uber is like the PayPal of the transaction according the terms you agreed to. Ever bothered reading that thing?


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Jenga said:


> Amazing how many people are doing their taxes wrong! Repeat: you do not need to report the rider fees on your tax form. The ONLY figure you need is the total amount received from Lyft on the 1099 they issue to you.


This is wrong, all fees are a deduction. They are a cost of doing business.

"You can *deduct* common driving expenses, including *fees* and tolls that *Uber* and *Lyft* take out of your pay. Your biggest tax *deductions* will be *costs* related to your car. You may also want to *deduct* other expenses like snacks for passengers, USB chargers/cables, or separate cell phones for driving."


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

jfinks said:


> This is wrong, all fees are a deduction. They are a cost of doing business.
> 
> "You can *deduct* common driving expenses, including *fees* and tolls that *Uber* and *Lyft* take out of your pay. Your biggest tax *deductions* will be *costs* related to your car. You may also want to *deduct* other expenses like snacks for passengers, USB chargers/cables, or separate cell phones for driving."


I'm not saying not to do that. I'm saying you start by reporting your gross earnings (what the pax paid) then you reduce that all your expenses including all the fees YOU paid to luber. Platform fee, service fee, airport fee and whatever else luber kept from the pax fare.


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## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

jfinks said:


> This is wrong, all fees are a deduction. They are a cost of doing business.
> 
> "You can *deduct* common driving expenses, including *fees* and tolls that *Uber* and *Lyft* take out of your pay. Your biggest tax *deductions* will be *costs* related to your car. You may also want to *deduct* other expenses like snacks for passengers, USB chargers/cables, or separate cell phones for driving."





RideshareDog said:


> Well I don't how your taxes works in the states but here in Canada as an independent contractor you need to report your gross earnings (total of what the pax paid you) I can't believe it would be any different in the states since the pax isn't paying luber but paying you and Uber is like the PayPal of the transaction according the terms you agreed to. Ever bothered reading that thing?


Ok friends - respectfully - it has nothing to do with your nationality, and rider fees have nothing to do with snacks - which you certainly can report and deduct if you are gullible enough to supply them. For the 3rd and FINAL time: We do NOT get paid by the riders! We get paid by Lyft. This is true in every country! We do not work for the riders. We have no contract with the riders. We receive no pay (other than cash tips) from riders. We have one contract and one employer - yes we are *employed* as independent contractors - and that is with Lyft (or Uber, etc.). They send us a form that they also send the taxing authority. That has all the tax info you need. You should NOT be concerned with what the rider pays to Lyft for tax purposes - or any other purposes.

The riders have an agreement with Lyft, not the drivers! Get it? Riders are customers of Lyft, and we are contractors for LYFT to fulfill LYFT's contract with the riders. Example: a general contractor for a new home construction hires subcontractors to do the work. The homeowner pays ONLY the GC, and the GC pays all the subcontractors. They work for the GC, NOT the homeowner. It's exactly the same with Lyft and Uber. You can deduct ONLY expenses which you pay directly out of pocket. If part of your compensation from Lyft is for tolls, that is still gross income. You must save receipts that you paid for them, and deduct them on your tax forms.

Imagine if you are a drywall guy working for a GC. Do you ask the homeowner or the GC for all the records pertaining to the overall construction, and then start deducting all that crap? Of course not, you do drywall and have no interest in the rest of the construction. That is the job of the GC in his contract with the homeowner. Do you think you need (or have any right to) the finances with regard to plumbing, tile work, carpentry, painting, etc.? Would you be required - or even allowed - to know all those figures, and report them on your tax form? NO! That stuff goes only on the GC's tax form. You are a deduction for him, NOT him a deduction for you. Why is this so hard to understand?

*Bottom line: your gross earnings are what you receive from Lyft, NOT what Lyft charges the rider. *


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

YES YOU DO GET PAID BY THE PAX ! READ THE TERMS OF SERVICE! 

Lyft and Uber do not offer any transportation services. They just match you to a driver and a driver to the pax. The terms is very clear about this. READ IT!

No your gross earnings is what the pax pays you!

This is in lyfts terms 
"Each Rideshare Service provided by a Driver to a Rider shall constitute a separate agreement between such persons."

Payments, Adjustments and Settlement. Lyft will collect payments owed to you by Riders and other third parties as your limited payment collection agent and you agree that the receipt of such payments by Lyft satisfies the payer's obligation to you.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Jenga said:


> Ok friends - respectfully - it has nothing to do with your nationality, and rider fees have nothing to do with snacks - which you certainly can report and deduct if you are gullible enough to supply them. For the 3rd and FINAL time: We do NOT get paid by the riders! We get paid by Lyft. This is true in every country! We do not work for the riders. We have no contract with the riders. We receive no pay (other than cash tips) from riders. We have one contract and one employer - yes we are *employed* as independent contractors - and that is with Lyft (or Uber, etc.). They send us a form that they also send the taxing authority. That has all the tax info you need. You should NOT be concerned with what the rider pays to Lyft for tax purposes - or any other purposes.
> 
> The riders have an agreement with Lyft, not the drivers! Get it? Riders are customers of Lyft, and we are contractors for LYFT to fulfill LYFT's contract with the riders. Example: a general contractor for a new home construction hires subcontractors to do the work. The homeowner pays ONLY the GC, and the GC pays all the subcontractors. They work for the GC, NOT the homeowner. It's exactly the same with Lyft and Uber. You can deduct ONLY expenses which you pay directly out of pocket. If part of your compensation from Lyft is for tolls, that is still gross income. You must save receipts that you paid for them, and deduct them on your tax forms.
> 
> ...


This is not a fair comparison. That GC also supplies all the materials for the job. All the SC does is the labor. In rideshare the driver supplies all of the materials/equipment AND labor. Yes, the SC has his own tools, but those get depreciated/replaced over time and never cost as much as a car, and most tools don't need constant fuel, oil and maintenance.


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## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

jfinks said:


> This is not a fair comparison. That GC also supplies all the materials for the job. All the SC does is the labor. In rideshare the driver supplies all of the materials/equipment AND labor. Yes, the SC has his own tools, but those get depreciated/replaced over time and never cost as much as a car, and most tools don't need constant fuel, oil and maintenance.


That's entirely up to the GC - he may hire some contractors for materials and labor. But that's not the point. This is about what to report on your tax form. If you pay for materials you can deduct them. You did not pay lyft for any materials. You did not hire them to be a contractor for you. If that were the case, you would need to send THEM a 1099 at the end of the year. Did you do that? No, because all you need to report is the gross income from Lyft supplied to you at the end of the year - it will be on a 1099 if you made enough to require one - AND indivual deductions for your expenses paid directly by you. If you are wasting your time looking at any other accounting, then I feel sorry for you.



RideshareDog said:


> YES YOU DO GET PAID BY THE PAX ! READ THE TERMS OF SERVICE!
> 
> Lyft and Uber do not offer any transportation services. They just match you to a driver and a driver to the pax. The terms is very clear about this. READ IT!
> 
> ...


This is only their TOS BS. Where is the contract between me and the rider? You cannot have contracts by proxy, just because it's in some TOS agreement. But isn't this why there has been so much litigation regarding the employer vs. transportation service issue? The jury is still out on that, and in the end these companies will be found to be what they ARE: transportation services.

But that's not the issue here. We're talking about taxes. For TAX purposes, drivers get paid by Lyft. We need only to report the amounts actually received as gross income. If you are doing it differently, then you are merely wasting your time, since you never RECEIVED the full amount from the pax. If you DO choose to report the total pax payments as gross income, then you must also report your payments to Lyft to the IRS on a 1099 and send Lyft the required 1099 form as having received more than $600 in payments from you. Did you do that? If not, there is a penalty to you. Not sure what it is, but you can look it up.


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

Jenga said:


> That's entirely up to the GC - he may hire some contractors for materials and labor. But that's not the point. This is about what to report on your tax form. If you pay for materials you can deduct them. You did not pay lyft for any materials. You did not hire them to be a contractor for you. If that were the case, you would need to send THEM a 1099 at the end of the year. Did you do that? No, because all you need to report is the gross income from Lyft supplied to you at the end of the year - it will be on a 1099 if you made enough to require one - AND indivual deductions for your expenses paid directly by you. If you are wasting your time looking at any other accounting, then I feel sorry for you.
> 
> 
> This is only their TOS BS. Where is the contract between me and the rider? You cannot have contracts by proxy, just because it's in some TOS agreement. But isn't this why there has been so much litigation regarding the employer vs. transportation service issue? The jury is still out on that, and in the end these companies will be found to be what they ARE: transportation services.
> ...


No that is exactly the issue. Uber shows u each rides contract I'm sure lyft has it on a server somewhere. 


Jenga said:


> That's entirely up to the GC - he may hire some contractors for materials and labor. But that's not the point. This is about what to report on your tax form. If you pay for materials you can deduct them. You did not pay lyft for any materials. You did not hire them to be a contractor for you. If that were the case, you would need to send THEM a 1099 at the end of the year. Did you do that? No, because all you need to report is the gross income from Lyft supplied to you at the end of the year - it will be on a 1099 if you made enough to require one - AND indivual deductions for your expenses paid directly by you. If you are wasting your time looking at any other accounting, then I feel sorry for you.
> 
> 
> This is only their TOS BS. Where is the contract between me and the rider? You cannot have contracts by proxy, just because it's in some TOS agreement. But isn't this why there has been so much litigation regarding the employer vs. transportation service issue? The jury is still out on that, and in the end these companies will be found to be what they ARE: transportation services.
> ...


It's not bs. That terms of service is a very strong chain and in both our countries contracts are everything. I can write an app and have my users yell every 5min to use the app. Don't like it don't use it and don't agree to the terms. Yes you can have a contract by proxy. I do love it when LUber drivers start pretending they are laywers now and start spreading misinformation but then your American and your country is full of misinformation.

Fact is luber isn't offering the service you are and they made it that way to avoid liability and guess what you agreed to it.

Now let's say you can report your net income instead of gross. Then you certainly can't deduct lyft and Uber fees as those things have already been deducted from that amount your writing down.


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

tmofog said:


> Last night I called Lyft (or their overseas call center) and mentioned that their decision to remove us from seeing Earnings Breakdown will just continue to earn more distrust with drivers. I said it looks shady and that they are hiding increased fares from passengers. We have a RIGHT to see this and NEED this for tax purposes. I was told that Lyft sometimes removes 'features" and then waits to see what the feedback will be from drivers. Last December they 'removed' the 45+ Long Ride Notifications. After PERSISTENT complaints from drivers they restored it. DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS.


you called the overseas call center to complain lmfao. They could give a rats arse what you have to say. They are sitting in India (critical care) or the Philippines (the rest) not having a clue of what you are talking about and just saying yes to everything (it is cultural.....saying no is tabboo in their cultures and requires telling lies just to evade saying no). Anyways, thank you for the chuckle as I am sure the Filipina or Indian call center worker will deliver your message pronto on their next trip to the headquarters in San Francisco. Keep us posted.



PioneerXi said:


> I disagree, in part.
> 
> My summary for last week is inaccurate. Lyft has deducted airport fees and the California Ride Tax in excess of the number of rides I completed.
> 
> ...


You don't think the IRS is in bed with Uber and Lyft? Of course they are. They are the one's who could actually definitely state the median income of an Uber/Lyft driver as well as how much per mile that comes to (hint.....most drivers are PAYING Uber and Lyft to drive in the end). In terms of copying them in, why not copy in the AG Barr who is considered the highest in the land in terms of justice (and personifies the very essence of corruption). Good luck and report back to us on how the IRS responded (notice I don't care what Lyft states because they lie, you will get a reply from someone typing in a third world ghetto making their quota of responses all the while not remotely answering your questions).


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

nouberipo said:


> you called the overseas call center to complain lmfao. They could give a rats arse what you have to say. They are sitting in India (critical care) or the Philippines (the rest) not having a clue of what you are talking about and just saying yes to everything (it is cultural.....saying no is tabboo in their cultures and requires telling lies just to evade saying no). Anyways, thank you for the chuckle as I am sure the Filipina or Indian call center worker will deliver your message pronto on their next trip to the headquarters in San Francisco. Keep us posted.
> 
> 
> You don't think the IRS is in bed with Uber and Lyft? Of course they are. They are the one's who could actually definitely state the median income of an Uber/Lyft driver as well as how much per mile that comes to (hint.....most drivers are PAYING Uber and Lyft to drive in the end). In terms of copying them in, why not copy in the AG Barr who is considered the highest in the land in terms of justice (and personifies the very essence of corruption). Good luck and report back to us on how the IRS responded (notice I don't care what Lyft states because they lie, you will get a reply from someone typing in a third world ghetto making their quota of responses all the while not remotely answering your questions).


Most lyfts call centers are in the states at least during the day


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## Jenga (Dec 10, 2018)

RideshareDog said:


> Now let's say you can report your net income instead of gross. Then you certainly can't deduct lyft and Uber fees as those things have already been deducted from that amount your writing down.


That's the whole point regarding taxes. There is no need to report all the expenses and deductions when it's simply a matter of what you earned in the end. But I do concede the matter of contracts since you pointed it out. But this is merely a contrivance since we all know and experience that we work for Uber and Lyft. Nobody ever says "Lyft works for me". In the end, these companies will be determined to be employers and transportation companies. It's not at all similar to eBay or PayPal where we are in full control of what we sell, when we sell it, pricing, etc. LUber sets the prices, determines where we go, hides the alleged contract from the driver (this WILL be determined to be illegal), determines how much of the price we receive based on what WE do, allowing them to add random surcharges to our customers without our knowledge and keep those as profit, tells us how many rides we can cancel before "termination" (sounds like an employer), and now hides how much they receive on each ride, and generally operates exactly as a transportation company would - the ONLY difference being their BS TOS agreement.

The laws or interpretations of them will change, but only by our complaints to the lawmakers or lawsuits. This is just a loophole and everyone knows it. BTW, I once had an employer hire me as independent contractor to avoid paying my taxes. He was later deemed an employer when I complained to state authorities, and had to pay all my back taxes and unemployment insurance - which I collected when he fired me. This even though we had a signed "Independent Contractor Agreement". The laws are not written in stone, and are subject to interpretation. The rules for independent contractor are very specific in every state as to what constitutes independent contractor. However, there are a multitude of measures which are used and if some, but not all, are met - it becomes a gray area to be determined by a judge or a state official (as in my case).

Currently Lyft/Uber are getting away with the obvious scam of not being transport companies, or employers. Imagine if Amazon or eBay told us what we could charge for an item, threatened to terminate if we withdrew too many items, didn't let us know the details of each contract - BEFORE entering a purchase agreement, made surcharges based on market conditions (surges) and didn't inform us, or compensate us fairly, and matched buyers to sellers based on THEIR perceived interest. This is exactly what a transportation service, such as an airline, does. Literally, the ONLY bonafide elements of "self-employment" in this relationship are our ability to set our own hours, and to deny/accept rides based on extremely limited information - the bulk of which they know, determine, and hide from us. Much of the employer/employee relationship - by law - and I have read it - is about control. These companies are in nearly complete control, as we have near zero flexibility in our alleged "contracts" with riders, even down to either party being able to choose a matchup based on their own criteria. Class actions need to be filed, yet most people have bought into a soft-coerced Abribration Agreement which prevents this. Evil corps, both!

Last thought on taxes. I'm not an attorney, but have looked into the IRS rules regarding 1099 forms. Last I checked, if you "pay" Lyft/Uber (and not the other way around) for services rendered over a set amount (may be $750/yr by now), then YOU are required to FILE - not receive - a 1099 and send that to the company "receiving" the money. There are stiff penalties for not complying.


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## SubaruLegacy (Jan 17, 2018)

Ski Free said:


> Uber's "surge" model is different than Lyft's. Lyft has never said their PPZ would pay any more than the dollar amount on the screen, Uber has said and it does happen that the surge on the screen is adjusted to a higher amount when the passenger pays more. No wiggle room on the Lyft side of things PPZ is never adjusted.


When lyft first introduced PPZ, they would adjust after the fare, if the ride ended up exceptional expensive/a ridiculous surge percentage going to lyft. Usually they'd basically pay you like 40-50% counting the base fare+ppz+adjustment. So an $80 ride(that normally is under $20) with a ppz of $2.80 would end up paying you like $35-40 (mind you they were still taking a 50%+ cut for themselves. 
but I haven't had one of those in months, I assumed it was just because of low season. But the last few weeks I've realized they are charging insane amounts and just keeping it for themselves now that they don't tell us the per ride cost.

Look Lyft/Uber can either say we are independent contractors and treat us like them, and gives us the passenger costs, or if they wanna do shady stuff make us part-time employees. They shouldn't be allowed to have it both ways, if any legislators actually did their jobs.

I've considered asking pax how much they were charged, but it's too awkward of conversation. Shit you were charged $25? that should've been like a $10 ride, I'm getting $7.... result passenger is pissed they were overcharged... passenger obviously doesn't tip, because they are upset they were ripped off.

My tips have fallen through the floor and are practically non-existent now that lyft is charging so much.

Since it's physically impossible for drivers to ever band together strike, what really needs to start happening is passengers need to start complaining about getting ripped off, and drivers getting screwed.

The problem is pax don't complain to companies, they complain to us, and coders think all their changes are fine.


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