# Underage rider question asked



## Manotas (Dec 2, 2015)

On this weeks email from Lyft Community Digest,
They answered a question I keep seeing posted everywhere regarding giving rides to minors without adults.
Looks like Lyft is reading up on these boards too.


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

I don't pick up minors.


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## sUBERu2u (Jun 18, 2015)

I have had multiple occasions where very underage female pax, about 15 or so, were clearly sneaking out of the house at night. (They usually tell me once we are on the way) Always from very upper class neighborhoods. I always take them. Probably shouldn't, but I don't believe we have any liability in doing so. We are not required to check the ages or identity of our pax, and I have forward facing video that has audio so I am not worried about any "accusations" that may arise.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

sUBERu2u said:


> I have had multiple occasions where very underage female pax, about 15 or so, were clearly sneaking out of the house at night. (They usually tell me once we are on the way) Always from very upper class neighborhoods. I always take them. Probably shouldn't, but I don't believe we have any liability in doing so. We are not required to check the ages or identity of our pax, and I have forward facing video that has audio so I am not worried about any "accusations" that may arise.


And when you get that $1,500 fine by an overzealous cop, that forward facing video camera isn't going the help you. It's not just Lyft/Uber policy it's a CPUC regulation.


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

Beur said:


> And when you get that $1,500 fine by an overzealous cop, that forward facing video camera isn't going the help you. It's not just Lyft/Uber policy it's a CPUC regulation.


*Way is common sense so rare in TNC drivers?*

Drive for less than they pay me? *YES*
Buy a new car for Uber? *YES*
7 people just climbed into my 4door? *YES*
1 year old doesn't have a car seat? *YES*
PAX name is Rebeca, but all male passangers got in? *YES*
PAX looks under 20 and I picked them up at 3:00 near a high school? *YES*
PAX gets in with a red plastic cup at 1AM? *YES*
Drive a PAX into the ghetto with a backpack, then return home without the bag? *YES*
PAX name is David, but 2 young girls got in, appears they're sneaking out? *YES*
*Why can't they turn down stupid PAX when the fare is so cheep!*


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

sUBERu2u said:


> I have had multiple occasions where very underage female pax, about 15 or so, were clearly sneaking out of the house at night. (They usually tell me once we are on the way) Always from very upper class neighborhoods. I always take them. Probably shouldn't, but I don't believe we have any liability in doing so. We are not required to check the ages or identity of our pax, and I have forward facing video that has audio so I am not worried about any "accusations" that may arise.


*Stupid *
Every parent can call and dispute the charges on their credit card, Uber won't pay you if there is suspision you didn't verify the PAX.
OR
Some day a parent will report them missing with a GPS location on them, then.........
*Aiding and Abetting the Delinquency of a Minor / Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor*
Both are real charges that exist in every state, good luck in court!


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## sUBERu2u (Jun 18, 2015)

Beur said:


> And when you get that $1,500 fine by an overzealous cop, that forward facing video camera isn't going the help you. It's not just Lyft/Uber policy it's a CPUC regulation.





Fireguy50 said:


> *Stupid *
> Every parent can call and dispute the charges on their credit card, Uber won't pay you if there is suspision you didn't verify the PAX.
> OR
> Some day a parent will report them missing with a GPS location on them, then.........
> ...


You guys are so full of shit it's unbelievable. Lol. How do people become so stupid? In this day and age there is no excuse for it.

You seriously ask for ID? No. Female name that matches. That's all. Aiding and abetting the delinquency of a minor. Lol. just admit you made that up. You're talking to an ex-cop. That's not even how contributing the delinquency of a minor works. Gtfo of here. ROFL.

Cops don't write CPUC tickets. Anyway, there is no such regulation, at least not in California. Prove me wrong. Lol.


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

sUBERu2u said:


> You guys are so full of shit it's unbelievable. Lol. How do people become so stupid? In this day and age there is no excuse for it.
> 
> You seriously ask for ID? No. Female name that matches. That's all. Aiding and abetting the delinquency of a minor. Lol. just admit you made that up. You're talking to an ex-cop. That's not even how contributing the delinquency of a minor works. Gtfo of here. ROFL.
> 
> Cops don't write CPUC tickets. Anyway, there is no such regulation, at least not in California. Prove me wrong. Lol.


Okay Mr "I'm a Police Officer" (nobody on this forum would actually call me on that nor also have Law Enforcement experience), dumb mistake Officer sUBERu2u

_Contributing to the delinquency of a minor (PC 272) is a serious crime in California. This law is essentially meant to prevent people from causing or allowing children to engage in criminal behavior.

There are two basic ways for a person to be charged with this crime. First, a person violates PC 272(a) if he or she acts (or fails to act) in such a way that another person under the age of 18 becomes:

A dependent of the California juvenile court system;

A juvenile delinquent; or

A habitual truant.
Second, a person violates PC 272(b) if he or she contacts a minor under the age of 14 in an effort to lure that minor from his or her parents. To be charged under this code, the defendant must have no pre-existing relationship to the minor (i.e., "a stranger" to the minor)._

*Your move Officer...!*
This is ridiculous, I've never met another officer that would ever suggest taking a minor without parents consent


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Fireguy50 said:


> Okay Mr "I'm a Police Officer" )nobody on this forum would actually call me on that nor also have Law Enforcement experience), dumb mistake Officer sUBERu2u
> 
> _Contributing to the delinquency of a minor (PC 272) is a serious crime in California. This law is essentially meant to prevent people from causing or allowing children to engage in criminal behavior.
> 
> ...


How is transporting a minor from a to b doing any of the above?


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## AceManShow (Sep 24, 2015)

sUBERu2u said:


> I have had multiple occasions where very underage female pax, about 15 or so, were clearly sneaking out of the house at night. (They usually tell me once we are on the way) Always from very upper class neighborhoods. I always take them. Probably shouldn't, but I don't believe we have any liability in doing so. We are not required to check the ages or identity of our pax, and I have forward facing video that has audio so I am not worried about any "accusations" that may arise.


The key word in this case is: DashCam


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## AceManShow (Sep 24, 2015)

Fireguy50 said:


> Okay Mr "I'm a Police Officer" )nobody on this forum would actually call me on that nor also have Law Enforcement experience), dumb mistake Officer sUBERu2u
> 
> _Contributing to the delinquency of a minor (PC 272) is a serious crime in California. This law is essentially meant to prevent people from causing or allowing children to engage in criminal behavior.
> 
> ...


It could be why he's an "ex-cop". There are a few LEOs (law enf officers) that make bad judgments, and they end up on the news for doing so. There were just recently over a dozen active LEOs that got charged for having sexual relations with an under age prostitute in Oakland & San Francisco

Just because one "had" a badge, does not mean he/she has good judgement. It's like saying "I'm a priest, you can trust me with your child". What one does/did for a living - is completely irrelevant to ones character or judgement.
*
---> I never pick up minors. And if they look like they could be under 18 - I ask for ID, every single time. The liability is on us as owner operators of our vehicles.
*
A few dollars for a ride IS NOT WORTH going to jail for OR getting sued for. No matter how small the risk is. It is not worth the headache.


Also: Do not start the trip ---> UNTIL you have confirmed the pax and everything seems legitimate. This way THEY CANNOT RATE YOU for not taking them where they want to go if they are not the legitimate pax that you're supposed to pick up.

*

*


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

Fireguy50 said:


> *Way is common sense so rare in TNC drivers?*
> 
> Drive for less than they pay me? *YES*
> Buy a new car for Uber? *YES*
> ...


Very good.


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

sUBERu2u said:


> I have had multiple occasions where very underage female pax, about 15 or so, were clearly sneaking out of the house at night. (They usually tell me once we are on the way) Always from very upper class neighborhoods. I always take them. Probably shouldn't, but I don't believe we have any liability in doing so. We are not required to check the ages or identity of our pax, and I have forward facing video that has audio so I am not worried about any "accusations" that may arise.


I think you're crazy for taking the risk. Since tort reform, the easiest target for litigation is the private person. I will keep my ears perked for an Amber alert for a black Suburu SUV.


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## sUBERu2u (Jun 18, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> How is transporting a minor from a to b doing any of the above?


It clearly isnt. Internet lawyers crack me up. Lol.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

sUBERu2u said:


> You guys are so full of shit it's unbelievable. Lol. How do people become so stupid? In this day and age there is no excuse for it.
> 
> You seriously ask for ID? No. Female name that matches. That's all. Aiding and abetting the delinquency of a minor. Lol. just admit you made that up. You're talking to an ex-cop. That's not even how contributing the delinquency of a minor works. Gtfo of here. ROFL.
> 
> Cops don't write CPUC tickets. Anyway, there is no such regulation, at least not in California. Prove me wrong. Lol.


Guess Mr. Ex Cop missed the emails and training video Uber sent out and placed in the driver's app. You keep doing you and I'll keep doing things according to CPUC regulation.


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## sUBERu2u (Jun 18, 2015)

Beur said:


> Guess Mr. Ex Cop missed the emails and training video Uber sent out and placed in the driver's app. You keep doing you and I'll keep doing things according to CPUC regulation.


The discussion is about liability and the law, not Uber policy. You "keep doing you" and get your legal advise from Uber. I'll get mine from the actual law.


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> How is transporting a minor from a to b doing any of the above?


_*A person violates PC 272(a) if he or she acts (or fails to act) in such a way that another person under the age of 18 becomes a habitual truant.*_
If this is their 12th time caught out drinking under age...
"_Young Lady, how'd you get here?"
"Uber/Lyft"
"Give us your phone app records"
"Oh, driver XYZ brought you up to the party, let's go have a talk with them!"_
As stated in the above example if you assume they are 15 years old and sneaking out at night then your open for prosecution. Won't look good if they subpoena your dash camera and there is obvious statements about school, parents, sneaking out, going drinking, flirting with the, etc.

Simply transporting a minor in silence after confirming the PAX identity is not a problem, if you keep the 5th. But knowing they're conversations, suggestive ages, not verifing their account, flirting or knowingly dropping them off at a party that appears unsupervised with alcohol/drugs. *PROBLEMS FOR YOU!*

All this is hypothetical, but if the parents report them missing, Amber alert, etc. Any career in Law Enforcement is flushed down the drain and possibly charges that you might get dropped to probation.

*Minors are trouble and against the TOS.
Uber won't help you in court!*
Uber/Lyft will give out ALL your contact info to Law Enforcement with a legal statement against the behavior in question, dumping all liability on the driver.


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

sUBERu2u said:


> The discussion is about liability and the law, not Uber policy. You "keep doing you" and get your legal advise from Uber. I'll get mine from the actual law.


So I guess California law PC 272 isn't good enough for you? If you were a cop, no wonder you're now an Uber driver 
And even if you skate past the law, the risk of Uber permanently deactivating your account isn't warning enough to stop taking minors out to parties at night? You give the best advice, even Detective Mark Fuhrman does a better job than you!


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## sUBERu2u (Jun 18, 2015)

Fireguy50 said:


> As stated above if you assume they are 15 years old and sneaking out at night then your open for prosecution. Won't look good if they subpoena your dash camera and there is obvious statements about school, parents, sneaking out, going drinking, driver flirting, etc.
> 
> Simply transporting in silence after confirming the PAX identity is not a problem. But knowing they're conversations, suggestive ages, not their account, flirting or knowingly dropping them off at a party that appears unsupervised with alcohol/drugs.
> 
> ...


No no and no. That you are somehow civily liable is a rediculous notion. Criminally? Now you are in fantasy land my friend. With that level of paranoid dillusions it's better for you if you just not leave the house...ever.


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

sUBERu2u said:


> I always take them. Probably shouldn't, but.....





sUBERu2u said:


> you are somehow... liable is a rediculous notion... Now you are in fantasy.....


So which is it?
Your first answer was I do it, but I shouldn't. Now your becoming agitated and insistent minors would never cause a problem.
Why 2 conflicting answers from your own keyboard? You're falling for detective 101 traps contradictimg yourself.

AND as we've seen from people asking about traffic accidents and not reporting them legally, this forum is searchable by simple Google search. Any good Detective will find this post about Uber/Lyft sneaking minors out at night. And BOOM they have evidence without even getting a search warrant for your computer.
Should have kept your 5th Amendment and stayed off the keyboard!
Bahahahahaha


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## sUBERu2u (Jun 18, 2015)

Fireguy50 said:


> So I guess California law PC 272 isn't good enough for you? If you were a cop, no wonder you're now an Uber driver
> And even if you skate past the law, the risk of Uber permanently deactivating your account isn't warning enough to stop taking minors out to parties at night? You give the best advice, even Detective Mark Fuhrman does a better job than you!


As I already explained but you don't appear to understand, PC272 doesn't apply. Ask any cop or lawyer and they will tell you. You are in no way at risk of being charged with contributing by transporting minors as an Uber driver. No way.

As for the repeated assaults on my character, I'm medically retired, own a small business (renting my fleet of 4 cars) and manage a small business. I now make more than I did as a cop. I only occasionally drive when the incentives are so high that it's stupid not to, like tomorrow morning when Lyft garuntees $45 to $55/hr before commission or when I get UBERSelect pings from the nearby airport like I did yesterday which was a 35 minute drive to SJ for $84 then use my destination filter to come back.


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## sUBERu2u (Jun 18, 2015)

Fireguy50 said:


> So which is it?
> Your first answer was I do it, but I shouldn't. Now your becoming agitated and insistent minors would never cause a problem.
> Why 2 conflicting answers from your own keyboard? You're falling for detective 101 traps contradictimg yourself.
> 
> ...


Whether one should take them because you believe minors sneaking out is generally not a good idea is entirely different than whether a driver is civily or, laughably, criminally liable for doing so are two different questions for which I, naturally, have two different answers for.

You're dribbling mad, aintchia. Lol


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

sUBERu2u said:


> You're dribbling mad, aintchia. Lol


Nope, not the one trying to prove my superiority and income over the internet.


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## sUBERu2u (Jun 18, 2015)

You know what firefighters and cops have in common? They both want to be cops. Lol


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

Fireguy50 said:


> As stated above if you assume they are 15 years old and sneaking out at night then your open for prosecution. Won't look good if they subpoena your dash camera and there is obvious statements about school, parents, sneaking out, going drinking, driver flirting, etc.
> 
> Simply transporting in silence after confirming the PAX identity is not a problem. But knowing they're conversations, suggestive ages, not their account, flirting or knowingly dropping them off at a party that appears unsupervised with alcohol/drugs.
> 
> ...


We all know that since last year, Uber has noted that they can record via the app. How much you wanna bet they have a cloud that saves all that recording time for each driver? It's really no different than a gas station that records everything all day and will delete or review when they see fit.


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

sUBERu2u said:


> You know what firefighters and cops have in common? They both want to be cops. Lol


That was good, Bravo!
I'm used to it the other way around.
Next make a joke about how we nap on the job, love those cause their true!

Cheers mate, just be careful with the newbs without real life experience. All they know is the Uber propaganda video promising them easy money without the understating to watch their back from drug dealers and hookers, and minors (who try to cancel the ride or make a sexual abuse complaint for a free trip).
None of them know how to watch their 6


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

agtg said:


> We all know that since last year, Uber has noted that they can record via the app. How much you wanna bet they have a cloud that saves all that recording time for each driver? It's really no different than a gas station that records everything all day and will delete or review when they see fit.


Yes, but there's NEVER been a case where Uber stepped up to defend a driver (with GPS location or secret video surveillance). Their lawyers drop all liability on the driver.

However I doubt the servaliance because we'd see a spike in data usage from the app. When I see a spike in data, I'll know they're spying.


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

Just for proof I'm not all talk about rider identity check. Here was last night, sent to pick up a woman and and a make knocks on my glass.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

sUBERu2u said:


> The discussion is about liability and the law, not Uber policy. You "keep doing you" and get your legal advise from Uber. I'll get mine from the actual law.


I suggest you put your detective skills to use, head over to the CPUC website to read the regulations about transporting unaccompanied minors.

Liability? Pick one up get in an accident, neither Uber nor James River will cover you. Why? Because you violated CPUC regulations, and Uber's policy.


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## Manotas (Dec 2, 2015)

sUBERu2u said:


> You guys are so full of shit it's unbelievable. Lol. How do people become so stupid? In this day and age there is no excuse for it.
> 
> You seriously ask for ID? No. Female name that matches. That's all. Aiding and abetting the delinquency of a minor. Lol. just admit you made that up. You're talking to an ex-cop. That's not even how contributing the delinquency of a minor works. Gtfo of here. ROFL.
> 
> Cops don't write CPUC tickets. Anyway, there is no such regulation, at least not in California. Prove me wrong. Lol.


huh? so if were able to tell your rider is a 15 yr old girl without asking for ID why let her in your car without even asking if she was an adult? Ex: I get a ping from a highschool, I call and ask (specially if the rider sounds like a minor) how old are you?... Some may lie and look older, I don't have control of that. But my forward facing camera with audio on is my witness they lied about the age.


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## sUBERu2u (Jun 18, 2015)

> Liability? Pick one up get in an accident, neither Uber nor James River will cover you. Why? Because you violated CPUC regulations, and Uber's policy.


This is false.


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