# Why I won't drive for uber any more



## Mike Vidal (Jan 10, 2015)

The example here is for rates in Miami, your numbers will vary in your city but maybe it will help you understand this issue a bit better.

Here is another way to look at how little you are now making on the two services that had the rate cut:
1. IRS allows 57.5 Cents per mile in deductible expense against income in using a vehicle for business purposes. Trust me, the government has more resources than you or I do and this number is pretty much spot on unless you document your expenses and you spend more than what the allowance is. For the purposes of this example the government allowance will do nicely. Here is an explanation of what is included in the mileage deduction:

(The mileage reimbursement rate is intended to cover the costs of operating a car for business purposes. The costs that are contemplated by the standard mileage rate are standard maintenance, repairs, taxes, gas, insurance, and registration fees. Essentially the standard mileage rate is intended to cover the expenses that one would report if he used the actual car expenses deduction, but the standard mileage reimbursement rate is simply an estimate and may end up being more or even less than your actual expenses.) Note: this figure that the irs supplies does not include interest expense on a loan for the car.

2. Uber takes 20% on X and 28% on XL

3. X rate is .95/mile, so .95 less 20% (ubers cut) is .76 per mile gross, deduct what the irs allows, .76 less .575 and you have a whopping 18.5 cents per mile. That is what you have left after expenses, so drive 10 miles, put $1.85 in your pocket.

4. XL rate is $1.95/mile, so $1.95 less 28% is $1.404 per mile gross, deduct what the irs allows, 1.404 less .575 and you have a whopping 82.9 cents per mile. That is what you have left after expenses, so drive 10 miles, put $8.29 in your pocket.

Personally I think the IRS rate may work in XL if you are driving a 6 cylinder minivan but anything bigger to me just does not work anymore. I think you would find that your operating cost in a yukon etc would be more in line of 75 cents a mile give or take.

The above simple example does not include "dead miles". What are dead miles?, these are the miles that you drive to get to the pickup or to drive back to a location where you can get pickups. In both cases you are loosing money or making pennies and here is how that works:

1. In X you make 18.5 cents per mile after expenses, lets just say that 1/2 of those 10 miles (5 miles) is spent getting to another pickup or location where there is action, Take 5 miles at .575 and you just spent another $2.875 to make another $1.85 for a 10 mile trip.

2. In XL that $8.29 just got reduced to $5.415.

Bottom line, unless you own your X or XL vehicle outright, your loosing money or making pennies with every ride you take.

Wake up and smell the coffee.


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## prdelnik666 (Sep 17, 2014)

And the new breed is signing up at 25% to 30%!!!!


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## Mike Vidal (Jan 10, 2015)

prdelnik666 said:


> And the new breed is signing up at 25% to 30%!!!!


What? Now ubers cut just went up?


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## prdelnik666 (Sep 17, 2014)

Mike Vidal said:


> What? Now ubers cut just went up?


In some markets new drivers are signing up at 25% to 30% commission.


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## Mike Vidal (Jan 10, 2015)

prdelnik666 said:


> In some markets new drivers are signing up at 25% to 30% commission.


That is insanity, shows you how good our educational system has gotten!


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## The Taxi Hack (Nov 22, 2014)

Math and metrics matter, if you own the car.

*Let A Taxi Driver Explain A Few Things *

*IF You Didn't Stop For A Mountain Dew*


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## Mike Vidal (Jan 10, 2015)

The Taxi Hack said:


> Math and metrics matter, if you own the car.
> 
> *Let A Taxi Driver Explain A Few Things *
> 
> *IF You Didn't Stop For A Mountain Dew*


agreed


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## prdelnik666 (Sep 17, 2014)

Mike Vidal said:


> That is insanity, shows you how good our educational system has gotten!


Well that's that and don't forget the fraudulent ads Fuber is running with "make $6,000 per month, guaranteed"
Newbies are believing that thinking even if they pay that 25% they will be ok.


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## PookaC (Jan 12, 2015)

I'm a newbie... Just signed up today. as I have a ft job, I intend to work this only on weekends and possibly an hour or two throughout the week. I'm in CLT where the rate cut dropped to .75pm, seems kinda low. I do own my 08 pt cruiser and paid $3k for it... So Depreciation doesn't matter (as I don't intend to sell the car) .... Hopefully I can make an extra $150 -$200 a month. Sounds unlikely


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

prdelnik666 said:


> In some markets new drivers are signing up at 25% to 30% commission.


Which UberX markets are charging drivers 30%?


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## Mike Vidal (Jan 10, 2015)

PookaC said:


> I'm a newbie... Just signed up today. as I have a ft job, I intend to work this only on weekends and possibly an hour or two throughout the week. I'm in CLT where the rate cut dropped to .75pm, seems kinda low. I do own my 08 pt cruiser and paid $3k for it... So Depreciation doesn't matter (as I don't intend to sell the car) .... Hopefully I can make an extra $150 -$200 a month. Sounds unlikely


Depreciation still matters, how many miles do you think you are going to do in a day. I was doing this from about 2PM till 1AM 6 days a week and till 3AM fridays and saturdays, put 1K miles per week on the car. I now CLT is not as big as MIA so I have no clue what demand looks like in your city and how many drivers there are. Given the way the numbers are now, and what they pay in your city, you are literally paying uber to drive.


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## PookaC (Jan 12, 2015)

Mike Vidal said:


> Depreciation still matters, how many miles do you think you are going to do in a day. I was doing this from about 2PM till 1AM 6 days a week and till 3AM fridays and saturdays, put 1K miles per week on the car. I now CLT is not as big as MIA so I have no clue what demand looks like in your city and how many drivers there are. Given the way the numbers are now, and what they pay in your city, you are literally paying uber to drive.


Not to be argumentative, but I think depreciation is a very important part of the gain/loss analysis. Using the original math, .24 cents of the .57 is depreciation. If one never intends on selling the item the "resell value" (which is what depreciation attempts to measure) is pointless. So... Hopefully that makes sense.


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## Shine'ola (Oct 7, 2014)

PookaC said:


> I'm a newbie... Just signed up today. as I have a ft job, I intend to work this only on weekends and possibly an hour or two throughout the week. I'm in CLT where the rate cut dropped to .75pm, seems kinda low. I do own my 08 pt cruiser and paid $3k for it... So Depreciation doesn't matter (as I don't intend to sell the car) .... Hopefully I can make an extra $150 -$200 a month. Sounds unlikely


you be driving a hooptie my brotha, nobody wants to ride in that, hell my tires and wheels are worth more than you paid for the PT Looser, that's all you can drive for 75 skrents a mile, like you gonna roll up in my Quail Hallow driveway in that, I would skraightup freak on ya, GET THAT OIL LEAKIN THING OFF MY CONKREET, HOW WE GONNA PICK UP DA *****ES ON LAKE NORMAN IN THAT POS ? !


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

PookaC said:


> So Depreciation doesn't matter


Just because you don't care that the Titanic is sinking doesn't mean it's not.


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## Shine'ola (Oct 7, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Just because you don't care that the Titanic is sinking doesn't mean it's not.


or because you "think you made money" doesn't mean you did


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## PookaC (Jan 12, 2015)

I'm too new to know if Ill make any money. I'm signed up for Lyft as well, they pay a tad more.


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## SDUberdriver (Nov 11, 2014)

Mike Vidal said:


> The example here is for rates in Miami, your numbers will vary in your city but maybe it will help you understand this issue a bit better.
> 
> Here is another way to look at how little you are now making on the two services that had the rate cut:
> 1. IRS allows 57.5 Cents per mile in deductible expense against income in using a vehicle for business purposes. Trust me, the government has more resources than you or I do and this number is pretty much spot on unless you document your expenses and you spend more than what the allowance is. For the purposes of this example the government allowance will do nicely. Here is an explanation of what is included in the mileage deduction:
> ...


_This is the BEST breakdown I have seen. Really makes you think about this whole Uber thing._


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## Mike Vidal (Jan 10, 2015)

SDUberdriver said:


> _This is the BEST breakdown I have seen. Really makes you think about this whole Uber thing._


Thanks, I tried to make it easy to understand the economics behind this.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Mike Vidal said:


> What? Now ubers cut just went up?


Yes, but drivers will be getting more. The math is terribly difficult, just trust them.


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## PookaC (Jan 12, 2015)

Worked for 3.5 hours tonight. Payout is $52 (this is after uber fees n shit). Call it $12 in gas, I profited $40, roughly $11 am hour. As a side gig goes.. That's not terrible.


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## UberBlackPr1nce (Dec 28, 2014)

PookaC said:


> I'm a newbie... Just signed up today. as I have a ft job, I intend to work this only on weekends and possibly an hour or two throughout the week. I'm in CLT where the rate cut dropped to .75pm, seems kinda low. I do own my 08 pt cruiser and paid $3k for it... So Depreciation doesn't matter (as I don't intend to sell the car) .... Hopefully I can make an extra $150 -$200 a month. Sounds unlikely


People like him is why uber will always have drivers. He said 73 cents a mile only seem kinda low meaning it's still doable. Then 200 is all He need monthly. Uber will alway have drivers Like him at their disposal. Then when it get to 58 cents a mile they have another list of new drivers willing to work that.


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## UberBlackPr1nce (Dec 28, 2014)

Lol and it's 1000 of drivers like this on the roads. That's why you can't win a protest vs uber. Just my pov


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Mike Vidal said:


> The example here is for rates in Miami, your numbers will vary in your city but maybe it will help you understand this issue a bit better.
> 
> Here is another way to look at how little you are now making on the two services that had the rate cut:
> 1. IRS allows 57.5 Cents per mile in deductible expense against income in using a vehicle for business purposes. Trust me, the government has more resources than you or I do and this number is pretty much spot on unless you document your expenses and you spend more than what the allowance is. For the purposes of this example the government allowance will do nicely. Here is an explanation of what is included in the mileage deduction:
> ...


And if you do own your vehicle outright, you will destroy your car in about two - three years with all the extra miles you put on it.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

PookaC said:


> Worked for 3.5 hours tonight. Payout is $52 (this is after uber fees n shit). Call it $12 in gas, I profited $40, roughly $11 am hour. As a side gig goes.. That's not terrible.


Factor in the depreciation on your car. How many miles did you add to your vehicle? Multiply that by the number of days you'll work next year. It's not very difficult to hit an extra 50K miles on your car doing this. You'll need to buy a new car in a couple years. Make sure to save all those $40 profit days to buy a new car or simply try not to think about it until it's too late. Most drivers don't factor this variable, cause they really need the extra money right now.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

PookaC said:


> Not to be argumentative, but I think depreciation is a very important part of the gain/loss analysis. Using the original math, .24 cents of the .57 is depreciation. If one never intends on selling the item the "resell value" (which is what depreciation attempts to measure) is pointless. So... Hopefully that makes sense.


Some people apparently don't care or understand about depreciation.


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

73cents a mile!

Before commission.

Sorry but that is a rate for a motorbike or cycle courier.

Not a car.


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## Rob617 (Jan 11, 2015)

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> Lol and it's 1000 of drivers like this on the roads. That's why you can't win a protest vs uber. Just my pov


You can win a protest against uber, follow uber tactics. Shoot the morons because being oDie or this other guy is morally wrong we are ethically entrusted to ensure the species. If we kill them all the courts can't get mad at us, just shoot them then hire lawyers and lobyists.. proof it works:

Authorities in Berlin and Hamburg banned the service. In response, Uber lowered the fares drastically in an attempt to appease passengers. But the low fares make it unattractive for drivers to offer their services. In recent weeks, Uber cars have been unavailable in the city.

AS soon as people realize the amount they are told they made is not what they make. They will learn. As soon as people start to listen and realize some of us know what we are taking about and have been involved in the days of suing pizza Hut for unpaid overtime as a manager, we won. We do have the need to sue in this capitalism based economy. Uber is suing for the right to break and change laws, we need to sue for our rights as well, but first we need to keep pushing the word out that if we do unite and stand down for 2 weekends, the uber price will crash. They are building a global market based on the fact the Americans are dumb enough to work for us and so should you, well that mentality does not work in European nations where they usually work less hours for more pay and more paid vacation days 3-1 in most cases.

Wake up America your high school and Facebook educated kids are going to end up on my door steps begging for money and I will shoot on sight. Because I'm threatened by stupidity and strangers asking for money is a viable reason to shoot.


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## Rob617 (Jan 11, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> Factor in the depreciation on your car. How many miles did you add to your vehicle? Multiply that by the number of days you'll work next year. It's not very difficult to hit an extra 50K miles on your car doing this. You'll need to buy a new car in a couple years. Make sure to save all those $40 profit days to buy a new car or simply try not to think about it until it's too late. Most drivers don't factor this variable, cause they really need the extra money right now.


This Facebook monkey doesn't realize the ride breakdown does not mean income, that those numbers are prior to uber fee deduction, he will see it tues. 12 bucks in gas, he went 120 miles for 52. 100 miles makes me 41.50 from the VA, and I don't have to wait, I just drive to my appointment. Soon enough I will take uberx and claim it on my taxes thus making an idiot out of the driver and making money on them.

Maybe I should stop trying to shut down uber and start telling all my employees to use it instead of my vans.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> 73cents a mile!
> 
> Before commission.
> 
> ...


Please note, it's .73 cents per passenger in vehicle mile. This does not include mileage TO a passenger, or mileage FROM drop off point.

If you get a ping 5 miles away from you. You pick up passenger and drive him 5 miles away from you. Thats 5 miles unpaid to pax, 5 miles paid with passenger, 10 miles back to starting point unpaid.

Total 15 miles unpaid, 5 miles paid.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

observer said:


> Please note, it's .73 cents per passenger in vehicle mile. This does not include mileage TO a passenger, or mileage FROM drop off point.
> 
> If you get a ping 5 miles away from you. You pick up passenger and drive him 5 miles away from you. Thats 5 miles unpaid to pax, 5 miles paid with passenger, 10 miles back to starting point unpaid.
> 
> Total 15 miles unpaid, 5 miles paid.


Unless of course, you luck out and get a return fare or your destination takes you back to starting point.


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## kalaks98 (Dec 4, 2014)

Mike Vidal said:


> The example here is for rates in Miami, your numbers will vary in your city but maybe it will help you understand this issue a bit better.
> 
> Here is another way to look at how little you are now making on the two services that had the rate cut:
> 1. IRS allows 57.5 Cents per mile in deductible expense against income in using a vehicle for business purposes. Trust me, the government has more resources than you or I do and this number is pretty much spot on unless you document your expenses and you spend more than what the allowance is. For the purposes of this example the government allowance will do nicely. Here is an explanation of what is included in the mileage deduction:
> ...


Your assumptions of the IRS 0.57/mile is NOT correct, you are not the only one on this site to make an incorrect statement.

When I the IRS give you this .57/mile expense deduction, it does not go to your bottom line, here is how it works.

Assume you have an income of $30,000, and you drove 10,000 miles a year for Uber
so your milage _expense dedcution_ is $5,700 per the IRS (10,000 miles * $0.57)
The IRS is permiting you to report taxable income of $24,300 (30,000 - 5,700)
For simplicity, lets assume your effective tax rate is 10%
So, instead of paying $3,000 in taxes (30,000 * 10%), you are paying $2,430 in taxes (24,300 * 10%),,,,,,,, $570 is the difference!!!!
Bottom line, for the 10,000 miles you drove for Uber, the IRS is only giving you back a $570 credit to your bottom line, NOT $5,700 !!
SO, the true expense per mile you can decduct on your bottom line is $0.057/mile ( $570/10,000 miles).......... HALF a CENT per mile.

You are getting bottom line credit on your taxes of $0.057/mile, NOT $0.57/mile

Hope everybody get to know this fact.


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## Mike Vidal (Jan 10, 2015)

kalaks98 said:


> Your assumptions of the IRS 0.57/mile is NOT correct, you are not the only one on this site to make an incorrect statement.
> 
> When I the IRS give you this .57/mile expense deduction, it does not go to your bottom line, here is how it works.
> 
> ...


Kalaks98. what the IRS computes as a deductible expense for operating a CAR, is a good measure to see how much money you are making on a per mile basis. I'm talking about operating expenses not income taxes.


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## PookaC (Jan 12, 2015)

Rob617 said:


> This Facebook monkey doesn't realize the ride breakdown does not mean income, that those numbers are prior to uber fee deduction, he will see it tues. 12 bucks in gas, he went 120 miles for 52. 100 miles makes me 41.50 from the VA, and I don't have to wait, I just drive to my appointment. Soon enough I will take uberx and claim it on my taxes thus making an idiot out of the driver and making money on them.
> 
> Maybe I should stop trying to shut down uber and start telling all my employees to use it instead of my vans.


Facts of life. You can't call a black man any types of "monkey" as that about as harsh as "******" or "****", but maybe you knew that.


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## PookaC (Jan 12, 2015)

yea, my overall fares were $69, uber will pay me $51.90... That's for 3.5 hours of work. What's the difference between this and delivering pizzas? Both are shitty jobs with shitty pay...


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## PookaC (Jan 12, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> Factor in the depreciation on your car. How many miles did you add to your vehicle? Multiply that by the number of days you'll work next year. It's not very difficult to hit an extra 50K miles on your car doing this. You'll need to buy a new car in a couple years. Make sure to save all those $40 profit days to buy a new car or simply try not to think about it until it's too late. Most drivers don't factor this variable, cause they really need the extra money right now.


I understand your logic, you are just using the wrong word. Depreciation isn't what you mean, so to your point you are correct. The wear and tear on my vehicle should be accounted for, I get it. If I can average $40 (after gas) I would have to drive for 75 nights to pay off my car (3000/40). That's rough math though, I should consider my expedited repairs but I also use the car to drive to my real job.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

kalaks98 said:


> Your assumptions of the IRS 0.57/mile is NOT correct, you are not the only one on this site to make an incorrect statement.
> 
> When I the IRS give you this .57/mile expense deduction, it does not go to your bottom line, here is how it works.
> 
> ...


You posted this exact post to start another thread, claiming it was "the TRUTH". It isn't! I replied to the other thread and will not waste bandwidth pasting my reply in another thread.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

PookaC said:


> I understand your logic, you are just using the wrong word. Depreciation isn't what you mean, so to your point you are correct. The wear and tear on my vehicle should be accounted for, I get it. If I can average $40 (after gas) I would have to drive for 75 nights to pay off my car (3000/40). That's rough math though, I should consider my expedited repairs but I also use the car to drive to my real job.


I would argue that depreciation is the right word. Even, if you don't plan to sell the car, you are accelerating the time before you need to get a replacement car. And, if your car is near the end of the Uber window, you may need to get a different car sooner than you think. Even though you use the car to drive to a real job, the Uber miles are hastening future repairs, so that expense is real (or will become real!).


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## mizzrock (Jan 3, 2015)

prdelnik666 said:


> In some markets new drivers are signing up at 25% to 30% commission.


Wait they're agreeing to only take 30% of the fares and Uber takes 70%??


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## Mike Vidal (Jan 10, 2015)

mizzrock said:


> Wait they're agreeing to only take 30% of the fares and Uber takes 70%??


Other way around


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## Rob617 (Jan 11, 2015)

PookaC said:


> Facts of life. You can't call a black man any types of "monkey" as that about as harsh as "******" or "****", but maybe you knew that.


I'm sorry what part of calling you a monkey means you are a "******"? Sounds like you have personal issues 
The word monkey refers to you being a trained tool. You follow posts on Facebook and take them for gospel, you probably are ready to tell me how that crook in missouri was only hitting the clerk in the convenience store to put out the flames.

Continue working your pos car for 11 bucks and hour, and making uber money, I am done with you, you are in no way going to further me towards my goals, just another cry baby thinking being black means everyone is out to get you.

In what world does the color of my skin make me deserving of things which I have not worked for myself?


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

PookaC said:


> Worked for 3.5 hours tonight. Payout is $52 (this is after uber fees n shit). Call it $12 in gas, I profited $40, roughly $11 am hour. As a side gig goes.. That's not terrible.


More napkin math:
I found that a 2008 PT cruiser will get 18/21 mpg, so lets call it 20 mpg. It looks like gas is <$2 in your area, so I will call it $2 for arguments sake. That would be 6 gallons of gas to go 120 miles. At $0.575/mile you have expenses of $69.

Uber payout = $52
Expenses = $69
Income(Loss) = ($17)


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## Rob617 (Jan 11, 2015)

Oc_DriverX said:


> More napkin math:
> I found that a 2008 PT cruiser will get 18/21 mpg, so lets call it 20 mpg. It looks like gas is <$2 in your area, so I will call it $2 for arguments sake. That would be 6 gallons of gas to go 120 miles. At $0.575/mile you have expenses of $69.
> 
> Uber payout = $52
> ...


Yeah the mileage is about right, but this kid is why uber exists, making people work like a dog without even knowing it costs them money to work.

But of course he is here trying to make a race case. Shame on me for being of the same spec


observer said:


> Please note, it's .73 cents per passenger in vehicle mile. This does not include mileage TO a passenger, or mileage FROM drop off point.
> 
> If you get a ping 5 miles away from you. You pick up passenger and drive him 5 miles away from you. Thats 5 miles unpaid to pax, 5 miles paid with passenger, 10 miles back to starting point unpaid.
> 
> Total 15 miles unpaid, 5 miles paid.


Where do you get the .73 per passanger, that is Not the uber rate. One person can ride for the same price as 5.
please show me how I am wrong because uber does not say only one passanger at this rate.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

Rob617 said:


> Yeah the mileage is about right, but this kid is why uber exists, making people work like a dog without even knowing it costs them money to work.
> 
> But of course he is here trying to make a race case. Shame on me for being of the same spec
> 
> ...


I believe that he means is that its $0.73/mile when there is a passenger(s) in the car, and that you are getting nothing for the dead miles.


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## Rob617 (Jan 11, 2015)

Oc_DriverX said:


> I believe that he means is that its $0.73/mile when there is a passenger(s) in the car, and that you are getting nothing for the dead miles.


Yeah I get it, thanks.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

PookaC said:


> I understand your logic, you are just using the wrong word. Depreciation isn't what you mean, so to your point you are correct. The wear and tear on my vehicle should be accounted for, I get it. If I can average $40 (after gas) I would have to drive for 75 nights to pay off my car (3000/40). That's rough math though, I should consider my expedited repairs but I also use the car to drive to my real job.


If it works for you..Uber on. Make it work for you.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Rob617 said:


> This Facebook monkey doesn't realize the ride breakdown does not mean income, that those numbers are prior to uber fee deduction, he will see it tues. 12 bucks in gas, he went 120 miles for 52. 100 miles makes me 41.50 from the VA, and I don't have to wait, I just drive to my appointment. Soon enough I will take uberx and claim it on my taxes thus making an idiot out of the driver and making money on them.
> 
> Maybe I should stop trying to shut down uber and start telling all my employees to use it instead of my vans.


Using Uber to safe wear and tear on your vans......That's one way to make Uber work for you. Have drivers tear up their vehicles.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Rob617 said:


> Yeah the mileage is about right, but this kid is why uber exists, making people work like a dog without even knowing it costs them money to work.
> 
> But of course he is here trying to make a race case. Shame on me for being of the same spec
> 
> ...


Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant per mile with passenger or passengers in vehicle.


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## PookaC (Jan 12, 2015)

Rob617 said:


> I'm sorry what part of calling you a monkey means you are a "******"? Sounds like you have personal issues
> The word monkey refers to you being a trained tool. You follow posts on Facebook and take them for gospel, you probably are ready to tell me how that crook in missouri was only hitting the clerk in the convenience store to put out the flames.
> 
> Continue working your pos car for 11 bucks and hour, and making uber money, I am done with you, you are in no way going to further me towards my goals, just another cry baby thinking being black means everyone is out to get you.
> ...


Nah dude, I was trying to inform you that you can't call a black man a monkey... I see now you didn't know. That's probably a good thing that you don't keep up with racial slurs


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## UberBlackPr1nce (Dec 28, 2014)

Rob617 said:


> I'm sorry what part of calling you a monkey means you are a "******"? Sounds like you have personal issues
> The word monkey refers to you being a trained tool. You follow posts on Facebook and take them for gospel, you probably are ready to tell me how that crook in missouri was only hitting the clerk in the convenience store to put out the flames.
> 
> Continue working your pos car for 11 bucks and hour, and making uber money, I am done with you, you are in no way going to further me towards my goals, just another cry baby thinking being black means everyone is out to get you.
> ...


You cant think that someone who is willing to kill their car for almost 7 bucks and hour after expenses can really discern the innuendo/s used to characterize uber x drivers? driving uber x is just like he characterized a monkey being suited up for NASA and sent to outer space because NASA officials are afraid of going themselves. That might be to deep of logic to understand. Uber X drivers unite


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## PookaC (Jan 12, 2015)

Rob617 said:


> I'm sorry what part of calling you a monkey means you are a "******"? Sounds like you have personal issues
> The word monkey refers to you being a trained tool. You follow posts on Facebook and take them for gospel, you probably are ready to tell me how that crook in missouri was only hitting the clerk in the convenience store to put out the flames.
> 
> Continue working your pos car for 11 bucks and hour, and making uber money, I am done with you, you are in no way going to further me towards my goals, just another cry baby thinking being black means everyone is out to get you.
> ...


But while


Oc_DriverX said:


> More napkin math:
> I found that a 2008 PT cruiser will get 18/21 mpg, so lets call it 20 mpg. It looks like gas is <$2 in your area, so I will call it $2 for arguments sake. That would be 6 gallons of gas to go 120 miles. At $0.575/mile you have expenses of $69.
> 
> Uber payout = $52
> ...


with your napkin math what is the salvage value of my vehicle? Long story is this a GREAT side gig... Nah. Is this a decent side gig, nah. So it becomes a personal quest after that. Why are/were you driving for Uber? Was it to pay a light bill, have some extra spending cash, etc etc. I understand everyone isn't in my situation. For shits and giggles... I worked tirelessly for 5 years to pay off my student loans that I needed to get my bs degree. Now I'm about to go to grad school, my company only pays $6k a year towards that. So, I can either use a $3k pos car for Uber or take out a loan (as the car is needed to get to a from work in winter). And more importantly, I drive more for Lyft that pays $1.18 a mile...


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

you'll make a lil bit more than described in the OP, as i dont see he included time per minute. just the 73cents/mile


however no one should drive for less than $1/mile or min fare less than $5


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## Mike Vidal (Jan 10, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> you'll make a lil bit more than described in the OP, as i dont see he included time per minute. just the 73cents/mile
> 
> however no one should drive for less than $1/mile or min fare less than $5


Here in Mia time/mn only applies when you are not moving. For the purposes of the exercise it does not impact the final numbers that much.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Mike Vidal said:


> Here in Mia time/mn only applies when you are not moving. For the purposes of the exercise it does not impact the final numbers that much.


it could though. in rush hour it could take 45min to go that 10miles used as an example

well, unless you guys are driving for 2cents/minute or something

but if you have a brand new prius hybrid,with no plans of selling, its surely aint costing you 57cents/mile to keep up that car(you know, the IRS thing yall love to throw out there to make it seem like you driving for free)


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## Mike Vidal (Jan 10, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> it could though. in rush hour it could take 45min to go that 10miles used as an example
> 
> well, unless you guys are driving for 2cents/minute or something


I understand that but again, looking at operating expenses for the purposes of the exercise it is moot. If you drive during the night rush hour doesn't apply.


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## SDUberdriver (Nov 11, 2014)

Mike Vidal said:


> Thanks, I tried to make it easy to understand the economics behind this.


_You have done an excellent job!_


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## THE MAN! (Feb 13, 2015)

Well not after taxes and maintenance/repairs. Those will eventually cost you. This mentality Uber hopes for. Kick the can down the road until you figure it out. Then they will recruit another. When I started in DC $5 start fare + $2.50 per mile. Now $2 - 1.02 a mile - .20 a minute. Some serious push back going on here in DC. Travis CEO believes Uber needs to make this cheaper for the customer then owning your own car. Really? Impossible! As well as come out recently and says there future is self driving cars. Again, way down the road for this application. Uber has done nothing but take the incentive out of driving. And don't think he may not drop your rates lower? He's nothing but an ignorant, greedy, idiot!!!!


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## ldriva (Jan 23, 2015)

prdelnik666 said:


> And the new breed is signing up at 25% to 30%!!!!


Where did you read this? I primarily drive for Lyft know since demand is strong in my market, but let me find out Uber raised commission rates. I will delete my app so fast.


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## ldriva (Jan 23, 2015)

THE MAN! said:


> Well not after taxes and maintenance/repairs. Those will eventually cost you. This mentality Uber hopes for. Kick the can down the road until you figure it out. Then they will recruit another. When I started in DC $5 start fare + $2.50 per mile. Now $2 - 1.02 a mile - .20 a minute. Some serious push back going on here in DC. Travis CEO believes Uber needs to make this cheaper for the customer then owning your own car. Really? Impossible! As well as come out recently and says there future is self driving cars. Again, way down the road for this application. Uber has done nothing but take the incentive out of driving. And don't think he may not drop your rates lower? He's nothing but an ignorant, greedy, idiot!!!!


Wow. DC used to be $5 start fare and $2.50/mile. That is ridiculous!


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## THE MAN! (Feb 13, 2015)

When Uberx launched in DC 8/13 as well as most other cities it was much higher. This was sold as a more economical version of Uber Black. You were incurationed to have items like bottled water, newspaper, mints, tissues etc. It started out more then cabs and now much less. Not to speak of in beginning you had to operate just like a limo/black car. Then couple months later all these changes came about and they screwed it up!


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

THE MAN! said:


> When Uberx launched in DC 8/13 as well as most other cities it was much higher. This was sold as a more economical version of Uber Black. You were incurationed to have items like bottled water, newspaper, mints, tissues etc. It started out more then cabs and now much less. Not to speak of in beginning you had to operate just like a limo/black car. Then couple months later all these changes came about and they screwed it up!


yeap,just a very sad sequence of events to get down to the current rate of 1.02/mile, smh


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

THE MAN! said:


> Well not after taxes and maintenance/repairs. Those will eventually cost you. This mentality Uber hopes for. Kick the can down the road until you figure it out. Then they will recruit another. When I started in DC $5 start fare + $2.50 per mile. Now $2 - 1.02 a mile - .20 a minute. Some serious push back going on here in DC. Travis CEO believes Uber needs to make this cheaper for the customer then owning your own car. Really? Impossible! As well as come out recently and says there future is self driving cars. Again, way down the road for this application. Uber has done nothing but take the incentive out of driving. And don't think he may not drop your rates lower? He's nothing but an ignorant, greedy, idiot!!!!


You da man, THE MAN!, but I'm guessing you already knew that. In my opinion, Travis is a little boy playing Monopoly in a man's world. He's not anything other than a money-hungry fool that's blinded by his greed and quest for some imaginary power he wants to someday obtain.

I would guess that when it's time, Google will roll out their fleet of driver-less vehicles, and send Travie boy back to scratching out a living on the copyrighted material of others. Maybe he can get a job driving for Lyft too. He's a loser, a wannabe.

The real tech. guys in silicon valley have to be laughing at this clown.


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## THE MAN! (Feb 13, 2015)

DriverJ said:


> You da man, THE MAN!, but I'm guessing you already knew that. In my opinion, Travis is a little boy playing Monopoly in a man's world. He's not anything other than a money-hungry fool that's blinded by his greed and quest for some imaginary power he wants to someday obtain.
> 
> I would guess that when it's time, Google will roll out their fleet of driver-less vehicles, and send Travie boy back to scratching out a living on the copyrighted material of others. Maybe he can get a job driving for Lyft too. He's a loser, a wannabe.
> 
> The real tech. guys in silicon valley have to be laughing at this clown.


DriverJ you completely get it! But what I'm a little confused about I was under the impression that Google was an investor in Uber?


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> yeap,just a very sad sequence of events to get down to the current rate of 1.02/mile, smh


Don't forget - $0.70/mile in Louisville, and $0.65/mile in Frankfort, Ky. That's a joke. These people are crazy, and anyone that drives for anything close to that is even crazier!

Uber my ass.

*S*
*UBER*
*C*
*K*
*S*


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

The uber bozos act totally oblivious when it comes to the costs associated driving uber/lyft. They have a faint idea that there is some gas expense. There might seem like there's a lot of profit in the beginning, but the wear/tear on the car plus the constant rate cuts make it almost impossible to get into the black.

Chasing surges and guarantees is like playing the ole musical chairs or the lottery. There is just not enough to go around for everyone.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> You da man, THE MAN!, but I'm guessing you already knew that. In my opinion, Travis is a little boy playing Monopoly in a man's world. He's not anything other than a money-hungry fool that's blinded by his greed and quest for some imaginary power he wants to someday obtain.
> 
> I would guess that when it's time, Google will roll out their fleet of driver-less vehicles, and send Travie boy back to scratching out a living on the copyrighted material of others. Maybe he can get a job driving for Lyft too. He's a loser, a wannabe.
> 
> *The real tech. guys in silicon valley have to be laughing at this clown.*


They are. But until Uber's investors wake up and this thing collapses, they're laughing quietly.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

THE MAN! said:


> DriverJ you completely get it! But what I'm a little confused about I was under the impression that Google was an investor in Uber?


I think I saw it was like $250 million or thereabouts. Unless there has been more. They probably just needed to make sure that they kept Travis on a short leash, so they could know everything that was going on. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer? What on Earth would Google want with Travis Kalanick? Ask him for technical advice?  Maybe get advice on how to run a company and impress the public? Doubt it. They probably bet that Uber would have a large share of the rideshare market, and all they would have to do is stomp on cockroach Kalanick when the time is right. Of course, they probably didn't realize Kalanick was such a dumbass, initially. We all know differently.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

THE MAN! said:


> DriverJ you completely get it! But what I'm a little confused about I was under the impression that Google was an investor in Uber?


Google invested in Uber back when Uber was valued at $1 billion. So Google already has a 40x return. They've lost their confidence in Travis though.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> I think I saw it was like $250 million or thereabouts. Unless there has been more. They probably just needed to make sure that they kept Travis on a short leash, so they could know everything that was going on. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer? What on Earth would Google want with Travis Kalanick? Ask him for technical advice?  Maybe get advice on how to run a company and impress the public? Doubt it. They probably bet that Uber would have a large share of the rideshare market, and all they would have to do is stomp on cockroach Kalanick when the time is right. Of course, they probably didn't realize Kalanick was such a dumbass, initially. We all know differently.


 Travis' track record on his previous business failures confirms it.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

PookaC said:


> Not to be argumentative, but I think depreciation is a very important part of the gain/loss analysis. Using the original math, .24 cents of the .57 is depreciation. If one never intends on selling the item the "resell value" (which is what depreciation attempts to measure) is pointless. So... Hopefully that makes sense.


Depreciation has nothing to do with whether you ever intend to sell the car or not, it measures the depletion of an assets useful life. If you use it up (even just some) on Uber, then a per mile piece goes directly into ur Uber expenses, and against revenue. Ur car's not worth anything anyway, so no big deal for you, but for some it is huge. The statement that it doesn't matter if you never intend to sell the car is completely wrong!


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Lidman said:


> Travis' track record on his previous business failures confirms it.


I hope this jerk is like one of the huge lottery winners that wind up broke in a very few years, scratching their head and wondering WTF happened. I honestly feel sorry for most of those people, most just can't handle it. Travis, on the other-hand, I could enjoy seeing him broke. He could get a job driving a cab. Well, maybe not on this planet.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

kalaks98 said:


> Your assumptions of the IRS 0.57/mile is NOT correct, you are not the only one on this site to make an incorrect statement.
> 
> When I the IRS give you this .57/mile expense deduction, it does not go to your bottom line, here is how it works.
> 
> ...


This poster wasn't even referring to the "tax deduction", they were just using the standard $.57 Iris figure as a sample operating cost figure against revenue. So, we didnt need the extended tax lesson.


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## THE MAN! (Feb 13, 2015)

I'm just surprised that Google's investment allows Uber to partner with Carnegie Mellon in self driving technology? Obvious this crosses over into Google's ventures. Uber almost making decisions as if there going to be rolling out the technology sooner rather then later. That application certainly far down the road for Uber. The private sector will come far before the public sector. Example Amazon and the use of drones. I think it's really an example of Travis narrow mindedness?

On another note, anybody see the recent Tech Show where the MC called Travis girlfriend an Asian *****, not once but twice? And not a peep from Travis I could see?


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

PookaC said:


> I understand your logic, you are just using the wrong word. Depreciation isn't what you mean, so to your point you are correct. The wear and tear on my vehicle should be accounted for, I get it. If I can average $40 (after gas) I would have to drive for 75 nights to pay off my car (3000/40). That's rough math though, I should consider my expedited repairs but I also use the car to drive to my real job.


No, depreciation is the right word. People on here just don't understand that it can be used in several different contexts. Some have only heard of using the term at the point-of-sale to figure out how much its value had declined upon finally selling or wrecking the car. When in fact it is a rolling value (snapshot) on a day-to-day and mile to mile basis, even while you sill own it.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Mike Vidal said:


> The example here is for rates in Miami, your numbers will vary in your city but maybe it will help you understand this issue a bit better.
> 
> Here is another way to look at how little you are now making on the two services that had the rate cut:
> 1. IRS allows 57.5 Cents per mile in deductible expense against income in using a vehicle for business purposes. Trust me, the government has more resources than you or I do and this number is pretty much spot on unless you document your expenses and you spend more than what the allowance is. For the purposes of this example the government allowance will do nicely. Here is an explanation of what is included in the mileage deduction:
> ...


It doesn't matter at all that you own the car outright you still experience the same mile to mile depreciation operating cost. In addition to gas, maint. & repairs, you are "selling a little chunk of ur car" on every trip!


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

THE MAN! said:


> I'm just surprised that Google's investment allows Uber to partner with Carnegie Mellon in self driving technology? Obvious this crosses over into Google's ventures. Uber almost making decisions as if there going to be rolling out the technology sooner rather then later. That application certainly far down the road for Uber. The private sector will come far before the public sector. Example Amazon and the use of drones. I think it's really an example of Travis narrow mindedness?
> 
> On another note, anybody see the recent Tech Show where the MC called Travis girlfriend an Asian *****, not once but twice? And not a peep from Travis I could see?


Travis is the *****! A lying POS. You won't hear anything from him but lies and more lies. Anyone running a reputable, ethical company would be on here defending it. Of course, a decent company wouldn't need defending.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Depreciation has nothing to do with whether you ever intend to sell the car or not, it measures the depletion of an assets useful life. If you use it up (even just some) on Uber, then a per mile piece goes directly into ur Uber expenses, and against revenue. Ur car's not worth anything anyway, so no big deal for you, but for some it is huge. The statement that it doesn't matter if you never intend to sell the car is completely wrong!


cant you at least admit that if you sell the car, the depreciation comes full circle(the car is gone, it can no longer depreciate when you dont own it,and FINANCIALLY you are affected by the money you got for selling it for an amount adjusted due to depreciation..... and if you dont sell the car, that of course the car still depreciated ever since the day you bought it, it always had a non-tangible price value that lowered day by day, however, pocket wise (money in your pocket), you just dont ever feel it much... But of course you can assume that after 80-120K miless, that you going to have to pay for repairs and stuff,but not everybody's car is a piece of sh1t. And for me, the only maitenance I pay is for oil changes and car washes up to 100,000 miles.....


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> It doesn't matter at all that you own the car outright you still experience the same mile to mile depreciation operating cost. In addition to gas, maint. & repairs, you are "selling a little chunk of ur car" on every trip!


if a dad bought his 21yrd old son a car to uber, is that son REALLY losing from depreciation? technically he is, and sure his car will be worth less, but he's losing "money"(depreciation) off something he never spent $1 on anyway. If the car cost $50,000, but spent 0$ on it, should he really factor that into his per mile loss?

Everybody's Uber situation is different........ Its not just a clear 57.5 all the way across the board just because the IRS said so.........


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

PookaC said:


> Not to be argumentative, but I think depreciation is a very important part of the gain/loss analysis. Using the original math, .24 cents of the .57 is depreciation. If one never intends on selling the item the "resell value" (which is what depreciation attempts to measure) is pointless. So... Hopefully that makes sense.


Uber preys on people using your 'logic.'


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> if a dad bought his 21yrd old son a car to uber, is that son REALLY losing from depreciation? technically he is, and sure his car will be worth less, but he's losing "money"(depreciation) off something he never spent $1 on anyway. If the car cost $50,000, but spent 0$ on it, should he really factor that into his per mile loss?
> 
> Everybody's Uber situation is different........ Its not just a clear 57.5 all the way across the board just because the IRS said so.........


Uber is sucking the value out of the vehicle. Someone is losing.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> Uber is sucking the value out of the vehicle. Someone is losing.


in this case, the father is losing.Not the son. The sons gains from selling the car even with depreciation. Any money is pure profit because he paid zero.
But just like the father, if you buy a car with no intent to sell, you already know you're losing....


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> Uber preys on people using your 'logic.'


how so?
If I buy a car today, with no intent to sell. Never ever do ridesharing. Do I somehow NOT lose, just becuase I never Uber?


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## getFubered (Feb 18, 2015)

The driverless car thing will never happen. Not saying they won't exist, but won't work for companies like uber and Google giving driverless rides. How? BECAUSE THESE RATES ARENT PROFITABLE! They won't put driverless cars at uberx rates on the road, at best they'll be select/plus rates. If 90% of riders prefer to ride in a smelly X car vs. a luxury select car with a high rated driver, who the **** is going to pay that for a driverless Car-2-go type car?


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

getFubered said:


> The driverless car thing will never happen. Not saying they won't exist, but won't work for companies like uber and Google giving driverless rides. How? BECAUSE THESE RATES ARENT PROFITABLE! They won't put driverless cars at uberx rates on the road, at best they'll be select/plus rates. If 90% of riders prefer to ride in a smelly X car vs. a luxury select car with a high rated driver, who the **** is going to pay that for a driverless Car-2-go type car?


sad that they would raise rates for computers
but keep them low for humans
as if computers have to get food to feed their family or something, smh


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> cant you at least admit that if you sell the car, the depreciation comes full circle(the car is gone, it can no longer depreciate when you dont own it,and FINANCIALLY you are affected by the money you got for selling it for an amount adjusted due to depreciation..... and if you dont sell the car, that of course the car still depreciated ever since the day you bought it, it always had a non-tangible price value that lowered day by day, however, pocket wise (money in your pocket), you just dont ever feel it much... But of course you can assume that after 80-120K miless, that you going to have to pay for repairs and stuff,but not everybody's car is a piece of sh1t. And for me, the only maitenance I pay is for oil changes and car washes up to 100,000 miles.....


Ok, our void here is called the method chosen for "recognizing depreciation". You choose to use the deferred method, choosing to ignore it until it comes home to roost and you actually "feel it financially". This is the "head in the sand" method that creates an imaginary profit, and leaves you wondreing what the hell happened when you finally go broke! This is precisely what Travis wants you to do, treat your car as free. The slightly smarter people want reality, and want to really know where they stand as they go, so they recognize depreciation in the present, using the more realistic "accrual" method. There, perfect explanation, this cant be argued about anymore, even by you Bart. You should be teaching new driver classes for the Evil Travis!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> if a dad bought his 21yrd old son a car to uber, is that son REALLY losing from depreciation? technically he is, and sure his car will be worth less, but he's losing "money"(depreciation) off something he never spent $1 on anyway. If the car cost $50,000, but spent 0$ on it, should he really factor that into his per mile loss?
> 
> Everybody's Uber situation is different........ Its not just a clear 57.5 all the way across the board just because the IRS said so.........


"Cut it out"
"Oh, now ur just being silly ... "
(I had to use some "Bartisms" there)
Ok, sure now lets use examples where everybodys car is free!
Or, if you win the lottery first, but then lose a little money everyday Ubering, have you really lost any money?
"Cut it out" please!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> how so?
> If I buy a car today, with no intent to sell. Never ever do ridesharing. Do I somehow NOT lose, just becuase I never Uber?


Oh, cut it out ...
Now, ur just being silly ...
Obviously in ur scenario ... You are choosing to use up the assets' useful life for PERSONAL use.
But, if you use it for BUSINESS, the cost must be recognized and allocated against those revenues to determine true profit or loss (unless of course you choose to keep head in sand, then it doesnt have to be recognized at all! LOL). Im pretty sure ur actually brighter than this, and are just having fun with us. But, Im also pretty sure you're still going to come back with yet another rediculous "yea, but what about mini Ditka" scenario! So, Il just say in advance ... "Oh, cut it out ..."


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

naw. im done.
You right. im wrong.
You win. I lose.
Continue to berate any and everybody that continues to drive for uber at any rate per mile.
Have a good day


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> naw. im done.
> You right. im wrong.
> You win. I lose.
> Continue to berate any and everybody that continues to drive for uber at any rate per mile.
> Have a good day


Wow, didnt expect that ... Im so PROUD of you!
Just dont say reaaally silly stuff anymore, and U wont get berated!


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> in this case, the father is losing.Not the son. The sons gains from selling the car even with depreciation. Any money is pure profit because he paid zero.
> But just like the father, if you buy a car with no intent to sell, you already know you're losing....


Okay, but regardless of how I figure it - UBER SUCKS HORRIBLY!! It could be a good thing, even for the drivers, but it's not.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> Okay, but regardless of how I figure it - UBER SUCKS HORRIBLY!! It could be a good thing, even for the drivers, but it's not.


If if comes down to Uber sucks or not, I will always agree with you that they do


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2015)

PookaC said:


> Worked for 3.5 hours tonight. Payout is $52 (this is after uber fees n shit). Call it $12 in gas, I profited $40, roughly $11 am hour. As a side gig goes.. That's not terrible.


Gas ain't your only expense. Think long term, on what you have to do to keep the vehicle going, and the risk you are taking with Insurance?


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

oh brother


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

moni4nuttin said:


> View attachment 5517
> I know for a fact that drivers get deactivated when their feedback score drops below 4.5...how are pax able to still be in the system with a 1 star rating? I just had to take a snapshot to share...incredible double standards.


ahahahahha, did you take it? its a sweet surge !


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## moni4nuttin (Oct 22, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> ahahahahha, did you take it? its a sweet surge !


I took it but it was a fake surge!


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## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

moni4nuttin said:


> View attachment 5517
> I know for a fact that drivers get deactivated when their feedback score drops below 4.5...how are pax able to still be in the system with a 1 star rating? I just had to take a snapshot to share...incredible double standards.


If I were you I would delete this post.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

moni4nuttin said:


> I took it but it was a fake surge!


Uber fake a surge? Na, not good old honest Travis. He's not a deceitful, lying piece of shit. Wait, yes he is.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> Uber fake a surge? Na, not good old honest Travis. He's not a deceitful, lying piece of shit. Wait, yes he is.


The guy is a saint.

Oh wait... he can't be a saint.... He thinks he is God!


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