# NYC drivers fighting for minimum wage



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...DOQQqUMIMDAF&usg=AOvVaw2AR2tHEmslNJV5Hp84Qk3d

Good luck, boys and girls!


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## dkhoser (Mar 21, 2018)

Damn doesn't NY have the highest rates& they still not making minimum wage?


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Good luck -- and be sure to have a backup plan, because if you win you are out of a job.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

dkhoser said:


> Damn doesn't NY have the highest rates& they still not making minimum wage?


exactly what I was about to say
like over $2/mile right?


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## UBERPROcolorado (Jul 16, 2017)

JimKE said:


> Good luck -- and be sure to have a backup plan, because if you win you are out of a job.


I am not sure that Uber & Lyft can afford to pull out of the NY market. Uber is loosing ground all over the world and now the US is the largest market.

But if they are forced to pay min wage in N.Y., other states will join the party. Poor Uber...


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## LuisEnrikee (Mar 31, 2016)

I paid 20$ for 3 mile ride in Brooklyn. Gtfo here


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## UBERPROcolorado (Jul 16, 2017)

LuisEnrikee said:


> I paid 20$ for 3 mile ride in Brooklyn. Gtfo here


Still cheaper than a cab.

Problem is that Uber's game plan is not sustainable. They are bleeding red ink and have since day one. They cannot afford to pay drivers properly and still keep current on their massive debt & expenses. Uber planned to do away drivers a year ago. Thus, save the cost of live drivers. That did not happen and most likely won't anytime soon.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

UBERPROcolorado said:


> Uber is loosing ground all over the world and now the US is the largest market.


Source?


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## UBERPROcolorado (Jul 16, 2017)

[QUOTE="Mista T, post: 3756691,

The news tab in this forum. India was the most recent.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Uber drivers in NYC are required to carry commercial insurance, the $500+ a month variety. 

Most uber drivers in NYC rent cars from a shop with insurance and everything packaged together, Just like the taxis are.

There's also a tax/fee tacked on every ride.

NYC rates are the highest in the country but because of Various factors i won't even use NYC in price/pay comparisons with other parts of the country.


NYC is a special case that i don't 100% understand but there are reasons for much higher rates beyond driver pay.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Drivers are still independent contractors and minimum wage laws do not apply.


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## UBERPROcolorado (Jul 16, 2017)

njn said:


> Drivers are still independent contractors and minimum wage laws do not apply.


There have been state level judges that have found drivers to be employees. However, uber quickly settled and no further action was taken on the matter.

I talked to my accountant about the subject last year and was told that the IRS is aware of the issue but has yet to weigh in on the subject. In his opinion, it will take a class action that goes to a trial before an inforcable determination is made.

I am a bit confused when it comes to the claim that drivers are making less than min wage. I use proper expensing and average a true net of $21.15 per hour. Down from $29.89 a year ago.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

UBERPROcolorado said:


> I am a bit confused when it comes to the claim that drivers are making less than min wage. I use proper expensing and average a true net of $21.15 per hour. Down from $29.89 a year ago.


That's because most people don't know how to really calculate their income.

There is no way to determine how much someone makes per hour, when true expenses are factored in, because no one can determine what their true expenses will be.

We can ascertain prior expenses, but not future. For example, if you are involved in an at-fault accident on Lyft, your expenses just went up $2,500. If you are not, then the expenses did not jump.

Does anyone know what their future expenses are going to be? We can make educated guesses, but nothing is for certain. For example, I paid for an oil change yesterday. I knew that was coming, and accounted for it. During the oil change, they informed me that a brake light was out. There's another $10 to replace it. Not a big deal, but that affects my net income figures. If I drove 5 hours, now the income has been reduced by $2/hour. Or perhaps I calculate on a weekly basis. Or monthly. By changing the way I account for things, it changes "how much I make" per hour. I spent $600 on tires a month ago, so is my hourly now lower, or do I just chalk it up to cost of doing business? (I know the answer, no need to reply).

The point being, most people have no idea what the "true" costs are. And even when they are explained to them, perhaps by an accountant or a very experienced businessperson, they STILL decide to calculate things "their way".


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

Idiots.

Minimum wage isn't just a floor on your earnings; it's also the ceiling.

Careful what you wish for.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

jester121 said:


> Idiots.
> 
> Minimum wage isn't just a floor on your earnings; it's also the ceiling.
> 
> Careful what you wish for.


Min wage isn't $7.25-$11.00 per hour depending on the state,

It's $7.25-$11.oo an hour *AFTER EXPENSES!*

When your $8.00 under the $8.05 minimum wage most of the year... Min wage is a lot better...

Employee status would entitle drivers to minimum wage free and clear of deductions, namely the 54.5c per mile deduction.

So for instance you drive 20 miles per hour with an average of $2.00 per hour in tolls..

You wouldn't be getting $8.05 for minimum wage,

You would be getting closer to

$10.90+$2.00+$8.05

Or $20.95...

That's not just a heck of a lot more than I'm making... That's 10% more than the old days when we actually got paid decent...

That's what 30% more than the study that uber likes to think it's drivers make?

And that's for a state with lower min wage, in a higher min wage state...

$11.00+10.90+2.00

$23.90 for washington...

Let's say for instance you have a higher mileage day, and average 25 miles per hour in washington state.

$11+ $13.625+ $2.00

And now we are up to over $26.00 plus benefits,

If i could make $8.05 + expenses per hour I would be driving uber instead of a taxi, but instead I drive a taxi because it's not remotely close once you factor in expenses.

_*Minimum wage would really be $19.00-$26 or so PER HOUR depending on the state.*_


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## dkhoser (Mar 21, 2018)

Mista T said:


> That's because most people don't know how to really calculate their income.
> 
> There is no way to determine how much someone makes per hour, when true expenses are factored in, because no one can determine what their true expenses will be.
> 
> ...


location location location if you live or moved to a great location where you can get pings from your house & its trivial to screen now you can make money the other 96% not so much, I lesiurely watch the roaches circle & park round me accepting the scraps thats more idling & risk meaning less profit for them, they don't last long lol...

1 ticket basically worked a week or month for free & extra $20+ a month on insurance

1 accident major repair worked a month or all year free

none of thats anecdotal
the world literally needs MIT to figure out 1971 minimum fares in 2018 are less than minimum wage and no one cared should be the main concern

every ride i take its $8 round trip gas round up $2 for others thats $10 a trip on a $50-$75 pay out for an hour and ten minutes

every other ride is $4 an hour no thanks i have no idea why these people get picked up or use newer cars but oh well a fool & their money


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

dkhoser said:


> location location location if you live or moved to a great location where you can get pings from your house & its trivial to screen now you can make money the other 96% not so much
> 
> 1 ticket basically worked a week or month for free & extra $20+ a month on insurance
> 
> ...


tickets are easy to avoid. I have gotten 1 ticket since getting my license, and I fought it and won, it was a mis-calibrated red light camera.

Everything else I agree with 110%

Location really does mean more than everything else thou,

Uber $*%s on it's drivers in some locations much worse than others.

If we were still getting 2014 rates in Orlando I could make the math work. There's more than enough customers...

As it stands i can make the math work with a rental taxi but not with uber...

That's not location screwing stuff up... That's the pricing model. Nothing else to say.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

I didn't know min wage was currently so low in NYC.

"Their employers can satisfy the minimum wage by combining a cash wage of at least *$8.65* with a tip allowance of no more than $4.35 per hour. Minimum Wage for Tipped Workers.
December 31, 2017 through December 30, 2018.
New York City."


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Uber drivers in NYC are required to carry commercial insurance, the $500+ a month variety.
> 
> Most uber drivers in NYC rent cars from a shop with insurance and everything packaged together, Just like the taxis are.
> 
> ...


Exactly, unlike in most of the US, rideshare companies and their drivers in NYC are required to conform to the local taxi laws. This means that they have extra licensing and commercial insurance costs. This makes it a completely different ball game to the one most of US drivers are involved in.

Rates are higher in NYC than most other parts of the USA (presumably to account for the above). In the rest of NY State ridesharing is not governed by taxi laws, and rates are similar to other parts of the US.


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## br1anf (Mar 23, 2016)

njn said:


> Drivers are still independent contractors and minimum wage laws do not apply.


If you find yourself in the position of "fighting for" minimum wage, or 15 bux per hour for that matter, things have gone terribly wrong. I feel for you and wish things could be different but they just can't be.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> exactly what I was about to say
> like over $2/mile right?


have you driven in New York? Try driving 2 miles lol

The bridges I think are $8 each way, and the george washington bridge I think was $16.50 if you don't have the EZPass


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## dman0617 (Mar 13, 2018)

UBERPROcolorado said:


> Still cheaper than a cab.
> 
> Problem is that Uber's game plan is not sustainable. They are bleeding red ink and have since day one. They cannot afford to pay drivers properly and still keep current on their massive debt & expenses. Uber planned to do away drivers a year ago. Thus, save the cost of live drivers. That did not happen and most likely won't anytime soon.


But that doesnt make sense if Uber is losing money now how can they expect to make money when they have to pay for the cars, maintenance, and the inevitable accidents that will happen???


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

dman0617 said:


> But that doesnt make sense if Uber is losing money now how can they expect to make money when they have to pay for the cars, maintenance, and the inevitable accidents that will happen???


Who says uber will own a single car?


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

dkhoser said:


> Damn doesn't NY have the highest rates& they still not making minimum wage?


Not The minimum wage, A minimum wage. The wage they're seeking is higher than the minimum wage. They're looking for wage parity with meter rates from yellow and green cab rates.



JimKE said:


> Good luck -- and be sure to have a backup plan, because if you win you are out of a job.


I don't know I'm thinking New York is one of the few, if only markets, where they could insist on a meter rate comparable with green and yellow cab rates and get away with it without Uber pulling out. Uber makes too much in that market to just pull out.



UBERPROcolorado said:


> Uber planned to do away drivers a year ago. Thus, save the cost of live drivers. That did not happen and most likely won't anytime soon.


Exactly. And after the death of that poor woman at the hands of its autonomous car operated by its software Uber isn't going to be free of its drivers for a long time to come, and it needs to come to recognize that and do right by its drivers.

I think following that accident it's going to be forced to recognize they can't keep treating drivers the way they have been racing to the bottom on rates.



Kodyhead said:


> Who says uber will own a single car?


If you're thinking they'll chose the same model and have independent contractors own those autonomous cars I would have agreed with you not too long ago, but, I don't know, it seems a far stretch. I mean if you owned that car would you be ok with giving Uber complete control of how that car operates after having spent a small fortune outfitting it with all of the required hardware necessary for autonomous driving? And this after knowing they'll accept no culpability for any accidents, and you'll be responsible for monitoring the cleanliness of the vehicle, and providing 24 hour emergency panic monitoring service for the cars?

Especially after the fatal accident caused by their autonomous vehicle's inability to spot the big target of a pedestrian and her bicycle?

I don't know that just seems like a really hard sell to me.



LuisEnrikee said:


> I paid 20$ for 3 mile ride in Brooklyn. Gtfo here


Guess I need a little more context on this one Luis.

I'll give you an example. In my market once during surge I drove someone less than half a mile for 12 bucks. When I saw what I got payed I was kind of shocked really. The fare was mitigated by the fact the pax couldn't figure out how to get to her hotel's cab pickup spot for over 15 minutes, but I mean 12 bucks for half a mile in less than five minutes, go figure. Sure it was 20 minutes total, but had she been able to find the pickup spot it would have been better than 2 bucks a minute.

Is that an everyday fare there 20 for 3 miles, or is there a lot of time, or surge invovled in that 3 mile ride?


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