# So I guess I'm seeing lawyer now...



## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

Last week I got an email stating my car would be delisted on August 24. It seems that UBER uses autocheck to look at car histories of current drivers...which seems strange considering I have been driving for 3 months. The autocheck report stated my car had been sold at auction in 2011 with a "frame damage" disclaimer even though no accident was reported.

My spouse and I bought the car froma large, reputable dealer last year that uses carfax. There are no incidents listed for the car on carfax.

After 2 days of increasingly frantic emails to UBER, I finally got a response that UBER would only take information from autocheck and would not consider contradicting information from any other source.

Moreover, if I could not add another personal car to the system, I was welcome to buy a new car from an UBER partner:

_If you don't have access to another car, you may want to look into our vehicle financing options and discounts from participating lenders by visiting __partners.uber.com/financing_dash__.

Thank you for your partnership. Let us know if there's anything else we can do to help.
_
Inquiries to autocheck livechat were useless. They will not offer any help to challenge information, and will not disclose where the information came from. You can go find out on your own with a private investigator and a lawyer.

So tomorrow I am having a detailed frame damage check done to see if there is indeed anything wrong. If not, I already have a referral to a Greensboro lawyer to see where we go next, if indeed there is anywhere to go. I am being told by UBER to buy another car from an UBER partner, and that there is no possible appeal process that UBER can consider without a change to the autocheck report...and autocheck says their reports cannot change.

$250 a week isn't worth this, in truth.


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## JLA (Mar 26, 2015)

Yeah, @ .75/mile it's not really worth fighting for IMO.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Doesn't make sense to spend dollars to chase pennies.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Frame damage? New cars don't even have frames. 
What is the make and model??


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

LAuberX said:


> Frame damage? New cars don't even have frames.
> What is the make and model??


2009 Pontiac G6. Nice car, actually and it has driven quite well. I think the "frame damage" thing is nonsense, but I will know more tomorrow after the inspection when we have something to go on in terms of documentation.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> 2009 Pontiac G6. Nice car, actually and it has driven quite well. I think the "frame damage" thing is nonsense, but I will know more tomorrow after the inspection when we have something to go on in terms of documentation.


Uber mixes things and people up all the time. It may be a mixup.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

UberRidiculous said:


> Uber mixes things and people up all the time. It may be a mixup.


I bought a copy of the autocheck report and the claim is, in fact, there. This is what makes the UBER appeal process asinine: you can only apeal the process with an autocheck report and autocheck will not allow you to do anything to challenge their report. Catch 22.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> 2009 Pontiac G6. Nice car, actually and it has driven quite well. I think the "frame damage" thing is nonsense, but I will know more tomorrow after the inspection when we have something to go on in terms of documentation.


Well I would for sure seek advice from an atty & see what your options are. Hope your getting your inspection free from your dealer. I would take action against Autocheck as well if info is incorrect about your car. Let us know what happens.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

It was probably sold at auction as "possible frame damage", this is done if pinch points are visible indicating it was on a frame machine. This is done to protect themselves in case it did have frame damage and wasn't reported which is 10x worse.

The dealership probably did their own inspection and determined that most likely it didn't or just overlooked it as they buy hundreds of cars a week. This doesn't change the vehicle history though and was probably disclosed to you in the 30 documents signed.

Go back and read through the papers you signed to see what you most likely missed, it will also have actions you can take with the dealership if otherwise found.

Your beef is with the dealership and they should take the vehicle back IF they didn't disclose to you that it has possible frame damage.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

Txchick said:


> Well I would for sure seek advice from an atty & see what your options are. Hope your getting your inspection free from your dealer. I would take action against Autocheck as well if info is incorrect about your car. Let us know what happens.


The dealer took this real, real seriously. They had to...this is a claim of a damaged car that was sold to us as undamaged. The inspection is being done free, and I honestly don't think they are going to be able to find anything. If they do, it actually becomes easier since we can leverage a better deal on another vehicle. I dount that will be the case though, and I will take the emails and the inspection to the lawyer and see if there is anything to move with. At the least, we should have grounds to force autocheck to change their report...but I don't think the lawyer woud want to go contingency on that since we would also have to get a payout for lost income etc.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

limepro said:


> It was probably sold at auction as "possible frame damage", this is done if pinch points are visible indicating it was on a frame machine. This is done to protect themselves in case it did have frame damage and wasn't reported which is 10x worse.
> 
> The dealership probably did their own inspection and determined that most likely it didn't or just overlooked it as they buy hundreds of cars a week. This doesn't change the vehicle history though and was probably disclosed to you in the 30 documents signed.


Could be!


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

limepro said:


> It was probably sold at auction as "possible frame damage", this is done if pinch points are visible indicating it was on a frame machine. This is done to protect themselves in case it did have frame damage and wasn't reported which is 10x worse.
> 
> The dealership probably did their own inspection and determined that most likely it didn't or just overlooked it as they buy hundreds of cars a week. This doesn't change the vehicle history though and was probably disclosed to you in the 30 documents signed.


The dealership was just as surprised as I was...and they are not happy about it.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> The dealership was just as surprised as I was...and they are not happy about it.


Of course they were because how many people run both Carfax and autocheck on vehicles they already own? They were surprised you found out.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> The dealer took this real, real seriously. They had to...this is a claim of a damaged car that was sold to us as undamaged. The inspection is being done free, and I honestly don't think they are going to be able to find anything. If they do, it actually becomes easier since we can leverage a better deal on another vehicle. I dount that will be the case though, and I will take the emails and the inspection to the lawyer and see if there is anything to move with. At the least, we should have grounds to force autocheck to change their report...but I don't think the lawyer woud want to go contingency on that since we would also have to get a payout for lost income etc.


Sure a attorney can take that on a contingency. If AutoCheck & Uber are wrong & Uber terminated you due to faulty information.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

limepro said:


> It was probably sold at auction as "possible frame damage", this is done if pinch points are visible indicating it was on a frame machine. This is done to protect themselves in case it did have frame damage and wasn't reported which is 10x worse.
> 
> The dealership probably did their own inspection and determined that most likely it didn't or just overlooked it as they buy hundreds of cars a week. This doesn't change the vehicle history though and was probably disclosed to you in the 30 documents signed.
> 
> ...


Also, "possible damage" should not be grounds to disallow a driver...especially if we are merely "independant contractors". If the car has no damage, UBER should have a reporting mechanism to allow drivers to submit legal evidence from a qualified vendor. Additionally, the jibe about just buying a new car from a corporate partner looks incredibly sleazy, and leads me to believe that they may be kicking cars out to coerce drivers into making new car purchases.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> Also, "possible damage" should not be grounds to disallow a driver...especially if we are merely "independant contractors". If the car has no damage, UBER should have a reporting mechanism to allow drivers to submit legal evidence from a qualified vendor. Additionally, the jibe about just buying a new car from a corporate partner looks incredibly sleazy, and leads me to believe that they may be kicking cars out to coerce drivers into making new car purchases.


That buy a car from Uber was fishy to me as well. I just rolled my eyes.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

limepro said:


> Of course they were because how many people run both Carfax and autocheck on vehicles they already own? They were surprised you found out.


Um, no. I deal with these people and that is not what I found. They have tried play straight with me from what I can see, and I have had no issue with the car that would remotely suggest anything untoward. UBER, on the other hand, cannot bother to return emails for days at a time and then coyly suggests I can just buy another car from their corporate friends.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> Also, "possible damage" should not be grounds to disallow a driver...especially if we are merely "independant contractors". If the car has no damage, UBER should have a reporting mechanism to allow drivers to submit legal evidence from a qualified vendor. Additionally, the jibe about just buying a new car from a corporate partner looks incredibly sleazy, and leads me to believe that they may be kicking cars out to coerce drivers into making new car purchases.


On a car check there isn't a spot for " possible" so if the auction lists it that way the checks list it as frame damage because being on their is better than not. Imagine buying a vehicle and later finding out it was a total loss from a bad accident that was never reported instead brought to a local shop and pulled straight. It happens here in Miami all of the time, I had a friend that would buy totaled cars, fix them and ship them to other countries, he made a killing.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> The dealership was just as surprised as I was...and they are not happy about it.


Please also take your documentation from Uber as well to attorney.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

limepro said:


> On a car check there isn't a spot for " possible" so if the auction lists it that way the checks list it as frame damage because being on their is better than not. Imagine buying a vehicle and later finding out it was a total loss from a bad accident that was never reported instead brought to a local shop and pulled straight. It happens here in Miami all of the time, I had a friend that would buy totaled cars, fix them and ship them to other countries, he made a killing.


So why can't they differentiate?? Their own disclaimer makes it clear that they do not vouch for the veracity of the information (which begs the question of why use it in the first place), they refuse to say where the information comes from, they have no easy means to commuicate with any person except by live chat and they have no iterated process by which you can challenge or contest any of the information.

So why is UBER doing this? If the car was actually a hazard...why give me a month to keep hauling people around? Why tell me to buy another car from their friends?

Nothing adds up unless you consider that they want certain types of cars in the fleet and they want to steer drivers towards owning those cars.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

Txchick said:


> Please also take your documentation from Uber as well to attorney.


Oh yes, indeed.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> So why can't they differentiate?? Their own disclaimer makes it clear that they do not vouch for the veracity of the information (which begs the question of why use it in the first place), they refuse to say where the information comes from, they have no easy means to commuicate with any person except by live chat and they have no iterated process by which you can challenge or contest any of the information.
> 
> So why is UBER doing this? If the car was actually a hazard...why give me a month to keep hauling people around? Why tell me to buy another car from their friends?
> 
> Nothing adds up unless you consider that they want certain types of cars in the fleet and they want to steer drivers towards owning those cars.


Exactly!!


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## picknyourseat (Mar 18, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> Um, no. I deal with these people and that is not what I found. They have tried play straight with me from what I can see, and I have had no issue with the car that would remotely suggest anything untoward. UBER, on the other hand, cannot bother to return emails for days at a time and then coyly suggests I can just buy another car from their corporate friends.


I have a couple of long time "friends in high places" at auto dealerships.

When they purchase a used car especially from an auction, they are fully aware of any and every potential problem that the vehicle may have...it MUST be disclosed by the auction company.

Sorry, but these are just the facts.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

Take it to another Chevy/Pontiac/GM dealer and have them inspected for frame damage and repair.

The dealer by Law, must disclose frame damage, flood vehicles, and totaled vehicles, regardless where they bought it.

Your first step, is to return the vehicle back to the dealer where you bought it from for a full refund. What they did IS illegal!!

So grab your attorney by his hand, and point him towards the dealer.


p.s.

Frame damage, wont show up on Autocheck for 90 days.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

picknyourseat said:


> I have a couple of long time "friends in high places" at auto dealerships.
> 
> When they purchase a used car especially from an auction, they are fully aware of any and every potential problem that the vehicle may have...it MUST be disclosed by the auction company.
> 
> Sorry, but these are just the facts.


The problem is that the auction company sold the vehicle in 2011...and we bought it 2014. There was another owner in the meantime and we don't know who auctioned the vehicle.

The dealer used carfax as disclosure when we bought the vehicle, which has been standard for the other cars we bought in NC. I had never even heard of autocheck before last week.

If I am going to try and say the dealer was negligent, the dealer can produce the carfax, which is an industry standard, and say the carfax is clear...because it is.

The question remains of why UBER is pushing this now...and if the vehicle is suposedly unsafe, why are they letting me drive until the end of August.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> Take it to another dealer and have them inspected for frame damage and repair.
> 
> The dealer by Law, must disclose frame damage, flood vehicles, and totaled vehicles, regardless where they bought it.
> 
> ...


This is someting from years ago and with at least one intervening owner in the meantime.

As I said before at the beginning: carfax is completely clear and autocheck in 2011 mentions frame damage at auction but no accident. I would have a tough time proving deliberate negligence on the part of the dealer since they used a standard reporting agency (carfax) and carfax showed nothing.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> The problem is that the auction company sold the vehicle in 2011...and we bought it 2014. There was another owner in the meantime and we don't know who auctioned the vehicle.
> 
> The dealer used carfax as disclosure when we bought the vehicle, which has been standard for the other cars we bought in NC. I had never even heard of autocheck before last week.
> 
> ...


ROFL!!

Carfax is a safety blanket used by dealers to cuddle dumb buyers with. For over 6 years, i bought used cars and shipped them over seas and i can tell you first hand that Carfax is a efin joke.

What your dealer did is illegal, its cut and dry, black and white as simple as it gets. Ignorance(by dealer) is not a protected class in the eyes of the law.

So get your head of out the sand.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> ROFL!!
> 
> Carfax is a safety blanket used by dealers to cuddle dumb buyers with. For over 6 years, i bought used cars and shipped them over seas and i can tell you first hand that Carfax is a efin joke.
> 
> ...


I'll give your opinion the consideration it deserves. I can guess you might tell me you were also a scout sniper in Iraq and graduated from Yale.

In any event, I'm pretty sure you are not a lawyer, and I know I am certainly not. I'll let an expert advise me on any avenue I can take after I get the inspection results.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> I'll give your opinion the consideration it deserves. I can guess you might tell me you were also a scout sniper in Iraq and graduated from Yale.
> 
> In any event, I'm pretty sure you are not a lawyer, and I know I am certainly not. I'll let an expert advise me on any avenue I can take after I get the inspection results.


I have given you a solid advice, after working with used cars for over 6 years. And you want act like a smart ass about Iraq and Yale?

Why do i even try? 

Best of luck to you dude.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> I have given you a solid advice, after working with used cars for over 6 years. And you want act like a smart ass about Iraq and Yale?
> 
> Why do i even try?
> 
> Best of luck to you dude.


Snide and insulting attitudes get nowhere with me. Also, I'm not a dude.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> I'll give your opinion the consideration it deserves. I can guess you might tell me you were also a scout sniper in Iraq and graduated from Yale.
> 
> In any event, I'm pretty sure you are not a lawyer, and I know I am certainly not. I'll let an expert advise me on any avenue I can take after I get the inspection results.


Yep get the inspection done take all documents to attorney & see what can be done. Please keep us updated it helps other drivers who might have this happen. Your the first one I have heard with this issue. I wonder if Uber does this on all cars of your age in market?


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

I'm out for now. I'll be back in a couple of days with whatever transpired.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

KGB7 said:


> I have given you a solid advice, after working with used cars for over 6 years. And you want act like a smart ass about Iraq and Yale?
> 
> Why do i even try?
> 
> Best of luck to you dude.


She is a chick like me.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> I have given you a solid advice, after working with used cars for over 6 years. And you want act like a smart ass about Iraq and Yale?
> 
> Why do i even try?
> 
> Best of luck to you dude.


I had my dealers license as well,that's why I said it is illegal because in order to get one you must be very familiar with laws. Not disclosing is very illegal which is why I suggested she go back and read the papers she signed and look for the full disclosure page. It will state whether the car is TMU(true miles unknown) and the damage history. It will also have the recourse to any action, she probably signed another paper that anything legal will go through a mediator not attorney but if she wants to waste money by all means.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

There is also a Carfax buy back guarantee if you contact them with the info they may give you full purchase price back for the vehicle.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> 2009 Pontiac G6. Nice car, actually and it has driven quite well. I think the "frame damage" thing is nonsense, but I will know more tomorrow after the inspection when we have something to go on in terms of documentation.


Frame damage- most likely AFTER it's been used as a Cab!


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

Txchick said:


> She is a chick like me.


I call everyone a dude or buddy.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> I call everyone a dude or buddy.


Metal.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> Metal.


I dont get it.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> Snide and insulting attitudes get nowhere with me. Also, I'm not a dude.


I dont care what you think of my attitude. Im here to help you and set you on the right course. What you think of my attitude is your prerogative.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

KGB7 said:


> I call everyone a dude or buddy.


Ok! Call me dudette Ha ha!


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

limepro said:


> There is also a Carfax buy back guarantee if you contact them with the info they may give you full purchase price back for the vehicle.


I have not heard of Uber checking drivers cars thru Autocheck. Does Uber do that for later model cars in markets??


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> I dont care what you think of my attitude. Im here to help you and set you on the right course. What you think of my attitude is your prerogative.


Some people are easily offended. Where I come from (Detroit) telling someone to get their head out of the sand is tough love.  Did you see the video of that dying teacher a few years ago (has died) that made a video for his kids of all the things he would want to tell them? One of the things he said was that people stop trying to help you, when they have given up on you and stop caring. Amen to that.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

UberRidiculous said:


> Some people are easily offended. Where I come from (Detroit) telling someone to get their head out of the sand is tough love.  Did you see the video of that dying teacher a few years ago (has died) that made a video for his kids of all the things he would want to tell them? One of the things he said was that people stop trying to help you, when they have given up on you and stop caring. Amen to that.


I have not seen the video.

Do you have a link?

Thanks.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> I have not seen the video.
> 
> Do you have a link?
> 
> Thanks.


Wow I wasn't sure if I could find it but here it is. I didn't remember it's over an hour. It's at around the 10 min mark.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Maybe it's time to move on and consider the possibility that the Karma gods are looking out for you. Uber is a joke. The thought that they would use your unique situation, not make any attempt to help you, and then have the audacity to try to get you into one of their sub-prime bullshit car loans speaks volumes. "Uber has your back" ... Cute slogan without any real weight behind it. Hopefully the attorney you are talking to is a friend, if not, you may find yourself getting squeezed by another ruthless, immoral slug.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

UberRidiculous said:


> Wow I wasn't sure if I could find it but here it is. I didn't remember it's over an hour. It's at around the 10 min mark.


9:40-10:17.

Best advice you will ever hear in your life!!

Thanks for the vid.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

Txchick said:


> I have not heard of Uber checking drivers cars thru Autocheck. Does Uber do that for later model cars in markets??


As far as i know, Uber does full 20/20 check for all cars, new or used.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

I'm planning on suing Uber for pain and suffering.


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## Raider (Jul 25, 2014)

I used to work for a dealership and it seems like you've just been had. Well I work for a main dealership, Toyota, so we don't buy cars from auctions. Usually those cars are problematic and nobody wants them, that's how they end up there. Those smaller mom and pops dealership usually buy them, fix and hide the problems and sell to the unknown public. Sounds like they knew about the frame damage but didn't take into account the buyer would be using it for uber and them finding out. I would take the car back to the dealer for a refund. Did you buy the extended warranty also?


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> I dont care what you think of my attitude. Im here to help you and set you on the right course. What you think of my attitude is your prerogative.


Sigh. Okay, thanks.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

Txchick said:


> I have not heard of Uber checking drivers cars thru Autocheck. Does Uber do that for later model cars in markets??


They state that vehicles with branded titles can't be used, we all know they are behind in everything so them not seeing it immediately isn't surprising.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> I dont get it.


Like, that's metal dude. Or, that's metal buddy. I call lots of chicks guy. "Hey guy, how's it going?".


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

Auto check and Carfax are like Transunion and Equifax.. BOTH can have errors. Carfax takes info from the quick lube and puts it in your report. If the quick lube fat fingers your mileage and puts 100,000 miles on the car and the next oil change they put in the correct mileage carfax's system will flag your car as possible roll back. Carfax will also take information provided to them based on the tag number of the car NOT the vin. It's stupid. I know with Carfax there is an appeals process. I had a subaru that i bought as a bank repo. Carfax flagged it as a total out with frame damage. 3 subaru dealerships and 1 indipendant body shop all agreed, no accident what so ever. Carfax eventually fixed their report but it was months and several hundred dollars. This car was bought directly from the bank. that bank even wrote a new loan for it. The pulled the cars autocheck and it was clean.

Autocheck is owned by Experian, the credit reporting agency.. We all know how correct credit reports can be right??? an error? never! (ya right. and Uber pays a living wage to all drivers) Ubers choice to tell you the car has to go is based on faulty information provided to them by Autocheck. (we are still operating under the assumption that the car does not have frame damage. if it does all bets are off and Carfax is to blame) and thus, your beef is with autocheck. No one expects dealers to pull both auto reports. They can, they should but most of the public when handed a autocheck report will say "who?" and demand a carfax report because they see that stupid brown fox on TV. That is why many dealers only use carfax.

Uber uses autocheck because they are cheaper


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## AJUber (Jun 23, 2015)

I agree with UberHammer , this is only Uber why spend Dollars just to make Pennies. Do you need this weekly income or something??


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

AJUber said:


> I agree with UberHammer , this is only Uber why spend Dollars just to make Pennies. Do you need this weekly income or something??


I have federal disability due to a degenerative condition, so yeah...the income does help. Also, the ability to work whenever I like (or not work if I have a bad pain day) is extremely useful.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

Raider said:


> I used to work for a dealership and it seems like you've just been had. Well I work for a main dealership, Toyota, so we don't buy cars from auctions. Usually those cars are problematic and nobody wants them, that's how they end up there. Those smaller mom and pops dealership usually buy them, fix and hide the problems and sell to the unknown public. Sounds like they knew about the frame damage but didn't take into account the buyer would be using it for uber and them finding out. I would take the car back to the dealer for a refund. Did you buy the extended warranty also?


The dealership is Crown in Greensboro, NC. Crown is the biggest dealer in the city, probably the largest in the Piedmont Triad and one of the largest in North Carolina. Not a mom and pop place.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> The dealership is Crown in Greensboro, NC. Crown is the biggest dealer in the city, probably the largest in the Piedmont Triad and one of the largest in North Carolina. Not a mom and pop place.


That doesn't mean somebody didn't pull a fast one on you..


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> That doesn't mean somebody didn't pull a fast one on you..


Possible, but unlikely, and it would have to involve a number of people. Is it more likely that the dealer simply uses carfax and not autocheck...therefore was surprised like me that there was a discrepancy...or that the dealer engages in systemic dishonsty and hopes that nobody in a major NC city notices?


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> That doesn't mean somebody didn't pull a fast one on you..


All of this still ignores the UBER problem at hand: Why is UBER doing this (including trying to sell me on another car purchase) and why does neither UBER nor autocheck have a mechanism to correct errors? If the inspection today does turn up a problem...then things do become easy. I can leverage a good deal on another car. Crown cannot afford not to...but I don't think any damage will show up.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> Possible, but unlikely, and it would have to involve a number of people. Is it more likely that the dealer simply uses carfax and not autocheck...therefore was surprised like me that there was a discrepancy...or that the dealer engages in systemic dishonsty and hopes that nobody in a major NC city notices?


Dealers lie all the time to make a quick buck. I've seen it way too many times.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> Dealers lie all the time to make a quick buck. I've seen it way too many times.


But this would be a damned stupid lie (hiding known damage and hiding a known report), and one that as you suggest would open the dealer to a sizable lawsuit and possible public rancor since anybody (like me) could wander right over to the local Fox and CBS TV affiliates just in time for the 6:00 news.

1)Is the largest dealer in the city going to screw over their reputation for a freaking 2009 Pontiac? The actual sale value wouldn't even have been affected particularly given the mileage on the car. Also, a number of people from the salesman to the general manager as well as several people at the bodyshop (a completely seperate facility several miles away) would all have to be involved. Now you are looking at a possible criminal conspiracy to commit fraud...for a difference of around a thousand dollers or less on the sale value and with a number of the conspirators having no profit involved but still facing serious liability.

2)Or...does the dealer use carfax exclusively like many other dealers (since as noted above carax has far greater name recogition) and sold me the car in good faith? If no damage comes back in the inspection, as I suspect, the autocheck data is spurious and the legal question becomes one of how to make them get rid of it.

I know you think otherwise, but I judge that Occam's Razor points towards the 2nd outcome


----------



## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> Dealers lie all the time to make a quick buck. I've seen it way too many times.


Also, we still keep drifting away from why UBER is pushing an outcome of me buying a car from their "partners" while refusing to provide a means of redress.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

1. Carfax is a scapegoat for dealers. 

2. If you didn't Uber, you wouldn't have known about this problem. 

3. Most people will never know about major issues. And if they do, dealer points fingers at Carfax.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> Also, we still keep drifting away from why UBER is pushing an outcome of me buying a car from their "partners" while refusing to provide a means of redress.


They make no money by helping you. What do you expect from Uber?


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> Also, we still keep drifting away from why UBER is pushing an outcome of me buying a car from their "partners" while refusing to provide a means of redress.


Probably because there is a problem with your car. It sounds to me like they found something that Carfax did not so they are giving you an option instead of telling you to get lost. I don't smell a conspiracy here.

Enough speculation! Tell us how the inspection goes. And then, get a second opinion from a dealer who didn't sell you the car.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> Probably because there is a problem with your car. It sounds to me like they found something that Carfax did not so they are giving you an option instead of telling you to get lost. I don't smell a conspiracy here.
> 
> Enough speculation! Tell us how the inspection goes. And then, get a second opinion from a dealer who didn't sell you the car.


The bodyshop manager suggested it may be necessary to go to another party actually, and use laserlock or a similar system to evaluate the frame. hat would be a couple hundred out of my pocket however.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> The bodyshop manager suggested it may be necessary to go to another party actually, and use laserlock or a similar system to evaluate the frame. hat would be a couple hundred out of my pocket however.


He's not wrong and you get to sue someone.

And your attorney can recover all the fees from guilty party.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

autocheck won't tell you where the information came from? I would think the suit should be filed with their name on it. They are the ones making the false claim. They should be able to prove it.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

merkurfan said:


> autocheck won't tell you where the information came from? I would think the suit should be filed with their name on it. They are the ones making the false claim. They should be able to prove it.


That's not how it works in the real world.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> That's not how it works in the real world.


Depends on what the judge thinks


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

they claim its easy to fix
http://www.naaa.com/pdfs/AutoCheck_SubmitDataCorrections.pdf


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

I should mention I don't believe their claim (I have dealt with car fax... it was ugly cleaning up the report on a car)


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> Last week I got an email stating my car would be delisted on August 24. It seems that UBER uses autocheck to look at car histories of current drivers...which seems strange considering I have been driving for 3 months. The autocheck report stated my car had been sold at auction in 2011 with a "frame damage" disclaimer even though no accident was reported.
> 
> My spouse and I bought the car froma large, reputable dealer last year that uses carfax. There are no incidents listed for the car on carfax.
> 
> ...


Try to avoid being frantic with Uber, it leads sure fire to other F words. Travis is not worth getting worked up over. Do you best, avoid financing through Uber. Avoid driving Uber with a financed car - period.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> He's not wrong and you get to sue someone.
> 
> And your attorney can recover all the fees from guilty party.


That is well worth considering.

For now...I am going to do something entirely not car or UBER related: play a game of Warhammer 40k with my kid on the dining room table. Space Wolves vs Chaos.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> That is well worth considering.
> 
> For now...I am going to do something entirely not car or UBER related: play a game of Warhammer 40k with my kid on the dining room table. Space Wolves vs Chaos.


Awesome!!


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> The bodyshop manager suggested it may be necessary to go to another party actually, and use laserlock or a similar system to evaluate the frame. hat would be a couple hundred out of my pocket however.


When you mentioned that you took it to the dealership to get it inspected for frame damage, I was surprised through this whole thread I did not see anyone mention about a 3rd party. The dealer will obviously "not see any frame damage". If they do, then it is them to take the car back and find you another one, while losing money on the car with the frame damage. A 3rd party will also be able to confirm rather it is autocheck or the dealer's miss. Also,* do not go to a company that the dealer "recommends".* This company will have the dealer's back.

In the City of Houston, there is only one authorized company that can inspect salvage titled cars to see if they are road ready for vehicle for hire (taxi, shuttle buses, not TNC) (Uber is a TNC and the city of Houston requires a clean title for TNC, in case anyone is getting excited in Houston, thinking they can go to an auction of salvage titled cars for their next vehicle.) Because the city only allows one company to do inspections that they can trust, I would figure out through the attorney or the city if there is one company that is certified by your city, before dropping a few hundred dollars on a inspection, and it may not even "count".

You mentioned this dealer is very reputable and cares about their reputation in the city. If the 3rd party confirms the vehicle indeed does have frame damage, just to avoid the extra hassle, I would go back to the dealership with that paperwork, one last time and see if they can let you return that car for the full price that you originally agreed to and allow you to choose another car for the same price or less, with an option of returning the vehicle should a similar situation happen, If not, well, go ahead and pursue legal action with the help of an attorney. I am hoping you kept your earnings consistent through out your time with Uber because that would be a good basis for lost wages.

If there is no frame damaged confirmed with the 3rd party, than you should be able to send that paperwork to autocheck, it may take a few weeks to update like when you appeal marks on your credit reports, but they should let you know a timeframe, and I have never dealed with autocheck, but it sounds like the type of company that you may need to find someone to help you navigate the process and "have your back". If you send in the report yourself, make sure to send it certified mail through USPS. Courts like certified mail, should it happen to get that far.

I really hope it works out for you, but let us know.

Watch the below video, it really opens your eyes in the kind of fraud car dealerships engage in. CarMax, I am sure you have heard of, but if not, it is one of the largest used car dealers in the nation. Just because the dealership is large, does not mean it is safe to go to. At the same time, just because mom and pop shops are small, does not mean they are bad either. The only way to be truly sure that you are buying a good car is buying a new car from a major brand, of course good luck on that on a Uber budget.


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## ChicagoHeat12 (May 6, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> I bought a copy of the autocheck report and the claim is, in fact, there. This is what makes the UBER appeal process asinine: you can only apeal the process with an autocheck report and autocheck will not allow you to do anything to challenge their report. Catch 22.


Even if it was damaged, Uber wants you to buy a pristine, brand new car just for pax to muck up and tear up for .75 cents a mile? Pfffttt. They've got some nerve


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

thehappytypist - Have you been at the CSR end of this problem yet?


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

LAuberX said:


> Frame damage? New cars don't even have frames.
> What is the make and model??


^^^
It's all the same thing whether it's the sub frame on a unit body car or a conventional body on frame construction like on trucks or still on a lot of larger SUV's. 
GM and Ford SUV's still have conventional frames except on their smaller SUV's or "crossovers". 
On some unit body cars, the sub-frame extension from the welded together body is able to be actually unbolted, like on some Cadillacs (FWD) where the sub-frame, called the "cradle" must be entirely dropped down in order to service the transmission... after the wiring looms and everything that that connects to the engine, even vacuum hoses are disconnected, four huge bolts that hold the cradle to the main portion of the car is just let down hydraulically because there is a welded in crossmember that prevents the transmission from being removed from the car because it's directly below the trans. 
The shops that don't have the equipment to let down the cradle do the whole disconnecting thing, remove the radiator, the hood, and anything else in the way and then CAREFULLY hoist the engine and transmission out as a unit. 
Even the vibration insulators on those huge bolts that hold the cradle to the body can't be reused and cost about $125.00 a piece... gotta be torqued to spec and locked with a special washer.
This is what makes the blood drain from the faces of people that have transmission problems 15 minutes after the warranty expires. LOL!
And another good reason to not buy a used Cadillac with notorious problems with the electrical transmission solenoids that control band and clutch lockup from the computer... and it doesn't seem like mileage has anything to do with it.

Did I digress enough? Haha.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

While I like everything you said it is unibody not unit body.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

merkurfan said:


> Depends on what the judge thinks


The judge will tell you to GTFO out of the court and have the vehicle inspected first.

Because if Autocheck is right and you had no proof, you will look like the dumbest attorney in history.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

I wonder what happened with the inspection....


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> they may be kicking cars out to coerce drivers into making new car purchases.





celticdragonchick said:


> they want certain types of cars in the fleet and they want to steer drivers towards owning those cars.


By George, I think you got it! The "dealer" charges a high rate of interest and (maybe) Uber gets a cut of it.

Does the city have an ordinance about TNC cars?


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

UberNorthStar said:


> By George, I think you got it! The "dealer" charges a high rate of interest and (maybe) Uber gets a cut of it.
> 
> Does the city have an ordinance about TNC cars?


Conspiracy theories? You guys are hilarious.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> I wonder what happened with the inspection....


I just got back wih the car.

They couldn't find anything at all. No signs of damage. No signs of repairs.

However, the shop reiterated this morning that for evidence that will stand up in court, I need to put the car on a rack with a laserlock inspection that can detect variences that human eyes and even calibrated tools would miss. That would be 250 out of my pocket no matter where I have it done. Then I still have to get a lawyer onboard and possibly go another 1200 out of pocket for the retainer.

As others earlier in the thread asked: Is .75 a mile worth this much trouble? Um, no.

The car is not damaged. It never was damaged. It drives perfectly fine and we haven't had a whisper of a problem for the year and a half we have owned it. I will talk to the dealer manager a little later today, but I can't see buying another car to make UBER happy while we are still under water on this loan. My guess is it is best to just walk away.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

Then Sue Uber for treating you like employee. Easy win, easy money.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> I just got back wih the car.
> 
> They couldn't find anything at all. No signs of damage. No signs of repairs.
> 
> ...


Shop for a lawyer that will work on a contingency basis. If anything dealer should replace that car because if you ever try to sell or trade it by chance they pull a Auto-check then you have a problem again.


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## celticdragonchick (Jul 24, 2015)

Txchick said:


> Shop for a lawyer that will work on a contingency basis. If anything dealer should replace that car because if you ever try to sell or trade it by chance they pull a Auto-check then you have a problem again.


Yeah, that is the remaining problem.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> Yeah, that is the remaining problem.


You might want to try this website, post your case..http://lawyerslegallaws.com/index2....w=search&pl=&gclid=CLKHlOvsgMcCFRCEaQod2uoP_g


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> Yeah, that is the remaining problem.


Or try this lawyer: http://www.trianglelawgroup.net


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> Conspiracy theories? You guys are hilarious.


Q: Do you know why conspiracies are real?
A: Because by definition a conspiracy is 2 or more people secretly planning to do something harmful or unlawful.

Helllllooooo Uuubbbeeerrr


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

limepro said:


> While I like everything you said it is unibody not unit body.


That's probably the stupid auto correct...


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

So what was the result of the inspection?


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

LAuberX said:


> Frame damage? New cars don't even have frames.
> What is the make and model??


^^^
Standard frame or sub-frame on unibody... it's all the same.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> I just got back wih the car.
> 
> They couldn't find anything at all. No signs of damage. No signs of repairs.
> 
> ...


I would (again) recommend bringing the car to an independent shop... Good luck with whatever choice you make.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Uber Kraus said:


> Probably because there is a problem with your car. It sounds to me like they found something that Carfax did not so they are giving you an option instead of telling you to get lost. I don't smell a conspiracy here.
> 
> Enough speculation! Tell us how the inspection goes. And then, get a second opinion from a dealer who didn't sell you the car.


^^^
Forget dealers. 
Too many of them are in tight with each other. 
A really reputable body, frame and alignment service would be the ticket. 
I went through this years ago, and when they look at the frame for obvious marks left by the straightening equipment/jig and hook up the lasers, everything comes out into the open. 
Also, a lot more shims on one side of the suspension, front or rear, or the eccentric cams that are used on a lot of vehicles to adjust caster, camber and toe, both front and rear are invariably dead giveaways if one side is way off from the other. 
Even compensating for bushing wear, they are still able to ascertain whether the car has been tweaked. 
It's like unbending a paper clip and then trying to bend it back into its original shape. 
Can't be done.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

Uber Kraus said:


> Probably because there is a problem with your car. It sounds to me like they found something that Carfax did not so they are giving you an option instead of telling you to get lost. I don't smell a conspiracy here.
> 
> Enough speculation! Tell us how the inspection goes. And then, get a second opinion from a dealer who didn't sell you the car.


^^^
By suggesting buying from a "Partner", they are showing an obvious and overt conflict of interest.


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## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> The bodyshop manager suggested it may be necessary to go to another party actually, and use laserlock or a similar system to evaluate the frame. hat would be a couple hundred out of my pocket however.


^^^
Absolutely!
This is what I suggested about five minutes ago before I saw this post. 
Good thinking. 
The lasers never lie, and a good frame guy whose been in the biz for years will be familiar with all of the old and new equipment that has been used whether or not they use it in their shop or not. 
He'll be able to say, "Yeah, this was done by such and such equipment which was popular X number of years ago". 
I've been there, done that... and the guy that looked at my vehicle had been around frame work for something like 35 years.


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

limepro said:


> So what was the result of the inspection?


She already responded with the inspection results in previous post.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

Txchick said:


> She already responded with the inspection results in previous post.


She never said results just that they suggested she take it to an outside shop.


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## syplex (Jul 29, 2015)

Hello celtricdragonchick, I'm glad I found your thread because I'm going through the exact same thing.

Been driving for Uber for 3 months -- E-Mail on 07/22 saying 'Frame Damage' -- deactivation on 08/24 -- Listed on AutoCheck as 'Auction Announced as frame damage' -- Uber e-mail support will only accept AutoCheck -- Uber's dispute form only accepts AutoCheck -- AutoCheck themselves can't remove entries. 
....Yeah, it's been a busy week.

My title is clean -- there was no mention of the issue upon purchase -- car passes inspection every year -- three years without any uneven tire wear -- and two mechanics have declared there is no frame damage. I have sent copies of my clean title to Uber along with photos of the frame and body....Nothing.

I've called auctions, lawyers, auto check, dealership, mechanics, you name it. The only way to remove the entry is from the auction but my dealership claims they don't know where they bought the car and the AutoCheck doesn't list the location. Uber requires your car to be 2005+, 4-door, and not have a salvage title -- my car passes all of these.

I think you and I should stay in touch if you'd like to private message me to chat on the phone. Otherwise, I have some things in the works and will get back to you. I was hoping to find a solution on your thread :/

This is crazy and has been very frustrating. I hope we get this resolved. I'll be in touch.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

syplex said:


> Hello celtricdragonchick, I'm glad I found your thread because I'm going through the exact same thing.
> 
> Been driving for Uber for 3 months -- E-Mail on 07/22 saying 'Frame Damage' -- deactivation on 08/24 -- Listed on AutoCheck as 'Auction Announced as frame damage' -- Uber e-mail support will only accept AutoCheck -- Uber's dispute form only accepts AutoCheck -- AutoCheck themselves can't remove entries.
> ....Yeah, it's been a busy week.
> ...


Interesting... Keep the conversation public!


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

syplex said:


> Hello celtricdragonchick, I'm glad I found your thread because I'm going through the exact same thing.
> 
> Been driving for Uber for 3 months -- E-Mail on 07/22 saying 'Frame Damage' -- deactivation on 08/24 -- Listed on AutoCheck as 'Auction Announced as frame damage' -- Uber e-mail support will only accept AutoCheck -- Uber's dispute form only accepts AutoCheck -- AutoCheck themselves can't remove entries.
> ....Yeah, it's been a busy week.
> ...


Awesome!!


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## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

syplex said:


> Hello celtricdragonchick, I'm glad I found your thread because I'm going through the exact same thing.
> 
> Been driving for Uber for 3 months -- E-Mail on 07/22 saying 'Frame Damage' -- deactivation on 08/24 -- Listed on AutoCheck as 'Auction Announced as frame damage' -- Uber e-mail support will only accept AutoCheck -- Uber's dispute form only accepts AutoCheck -- AutoCheck themselves can't remove entries.
> ....Yeah, it's been a busy week.
> ...


Lawyers give you any advice? Her dealer advised her to take to a shop that does laser frame evaluation for $250.00???


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## syplex (Jul 29, 2015)

It doesn't sound like Uber cares what you do to prove the allegations are false. They don't care about anything but the AutoCheck. Regarding the dealership, the lawyers are saying it would be a long, uphill battle because I have to prove that they willingly withheld the information. The dealership claims they didn't know, and I would have to prove that is false -- which is difficult. So unless they willingly want to help me get in a new car -- I think that front is over. All I really want is to keep my job, not sue a dealership/Uber or get a new car. I do agree this may be an opportunity for Uber to get more people to have newer, sponsored/promoted vehicles. My only ammunition is that I can't find anything in the Uber agreement that says my car is unfit to drive. The only thing pertaining to this is that it cannot have a salvage title which it doesn't -- (I can't post links) there is a reddit post from two months ago -- google search 'what are my next steps i don't even know if this'. Similar event and the person provided their clean title. Uber responded saying proof of a clean title will allow reactivation.

I don't want to get your hopes up, I was hoping you had a solution. I'm waiting to hear back from Uber after my latest e-mail along with an auction house that is attempting to find which auction the car was sold at. It's a real shame, I'm being deactivated despite having no frame damage and a clean title.

I tried attaching a copy of the what I sent in during the dispute but the 'upload a file' button didn't work :/


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

KGB7 said:


> The judge will tell you to GTFO out of the court and have the vehicle inspected first.
> 
> Because if Autocheck is right and you had no proof, you will look like the dumbest attorney in history.


I completely agree. When I went through it with CarFax I had the reports of 3 subaru dealers (none sold the car) and one indipendant well known and respected body shop. Then I threatened to sue Carfax and it was corrected in 48 hours. However, during discovery you can request Autocheck provide the source of the information. But yes you want to be damn sure they are wrong before suing them.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> I just got back wih the car.
> 
> They couldn't find anything at all. No signs of damage. No signs of repairs.
> 
> ...


I can't disagree with you on the uber aspect. however it is gonna kill resale value if you go to trade or sell and they pull autocheck.


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## thehappytypist (Oct 9, 2014)

Trebor said:


> thehappytypist - Have you been at the CSR end of this problem yet?


Nope! Vehicle financing issues go straight to a specialized team.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Like syplex said, If the state has a clean title, then it is not a bad idea to submit that to Uber. A car with frame damage should be a salvage title.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

syplex said:


> Hello celtricdragonchick, I'm glad I found your thread because I'm going through the exact same thing.
> 
> Been driving for Uber for 3 months -- E-Mail on 07/22 saying 'Frame Damage' -- deactivation on 08/24 -- Listed on AutoCheck as 'Auction Announced as frame damage' -- Uber e-mail support will only accept AutoCheck -- Uber's dispute form only accepts AutoCheck -- AutoCheck themselves can't remove entries.
> ....Yeah, it's been a busy week.
> ...


Did you already submit the clean title to Uber?

The dealership knows where they bought the car from. It is probably the same place all the time. They just don't want to give their trade secret away.

Anyways, there should be a written history (check with the ones who collect your taxes / registration on the vehicle) of which auction house had you car. If there isn't, dig deeper and you maybe able to go after the auction house if they do not have a dealer's license. Cars do not just disappear and reappear.

Do a VIN number search on Google. It may lead to some clues, (some auctions (reputable ones at least) list their vehicles online with the VIN #).


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

Carfax report might say what auction it went though as well.


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## bezi_NY (Feb 28, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> Sigh. Okay, thanks.


I worked for a dealership and specialized in frame repair. and this story has me shaking my head..
now lets back up and post for me what that report said and if it had frame damage vs it does have frame damage.. 

-If it had frame damage and it was repaired properly to oem spec. then that means its as good as new. 
-If it has frame damage tell me who is making this claim? and how would they know that?
-Did you take it for a wheel alignment? Get a wheel alignment at a good shop! not at firestone or such. please! Why do you think tire manufactures require wheel alignments in order to honor a tires mileage Warranty? Because if the frame is bent really bad it wont align properly hence wearing out tires really fast.... 
-Do the doors open and close pretty much the same as far as difficulty? hood and deck too?
-check body gaps. like between doors fenders and fenders hood etc..
does it look like this?
https://images.copart.com/website/data/pix/20130513/19376633_1X.JPG


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## bezi_NY (Feb 28, 2015)

Here is an article to help clear up some confusion about bent frames and totaled out vehicles and a formula used.. http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2013/12/05/240841.htm

Insurance pay to have frames repaired on, I bet at least 75% of the vehicles they write up in an accident. To cover their ass they pay (In writing and in their estimate of repair "check align frame setup measure 1.5 hours pull 2.5 hours.. somthing like such)

And here you will see what we use to reference our checking out a frame on a 1969 Chevelle. (I know you never heard of Chevelle. Don't worry neither has those Uber DOrks in San francisco Headquarters)

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy58/shadowgray/Body Shop/framedims.jpg


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## bezi_NY (Feb 28, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> The dealership is Crown in Greensboro, NC. Crown is the biggest dealer in the city, probably the largest in the Piedmont Triad and one of the largest in North Carolina. Not a mom and pop place.


Ask if they have a auto body shop.. If so try to get in ouch with a manager in there. Hopeful they'd be decent enough to check it for you..


celticdragonchick said:


> Yeah, that is the remaining problem.


After having read all the posts (and chiming in first.. as any good man does) I think you should try working with what you have. Before spending money on laser verification

I mean take the dealers body shop statement as an expert witness that is certified by insurance companies to perform this sort of frame repair and if they cannot find any damage to repair well then there isn't any! If there is frame damage or a shoddy repair with the car they're not gonna lie over at the body shop to cover that up.. No way! Trust me they know other ways of wiggling out of this problem... Lemmon law possibly too? If all else fails Lemmon law attorney. Write to the dealerships gm or the owner and tell them the truth that you also think the car is fine and that they (the dealership should clear this up). Let the dealership sue them over the false statement.


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## syplex (Jul 29, 2015)

Any updates on your end? Not much on mine :/


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

Have you spoken with your insurance? They might have a free solution for you to get to the bottom of this.

Just dont mention Uber.


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## syplex (Jul 29, 2015)

Latest E-Mail Response...

Gabrielle here, Community Operations Manager at Uber. Thanks for reaching out, and sharing your concerns regarding your vehicle history report.

As the Software License and Online Services Agreement that was agreed to when entering into a partnership with Uber states, all vehicles must be "[...] maintained in good operating condition, consistent with industry safety and maintenance standards for a Vehicle of its kind and any additional standards or requirements in the applicable Territory." We've determined that the problem listed in your vehicle report is unacceptable for use on our platform based on industry safety and maintenance standards, in addition to local regulations.

We rely on the history provided from AutoCheck, because they offer the most up-to-date and comprehensive vehicle history reports. Some issues that we are unable to accept on the Uber platform will not be listed on the vehicle's title or registration. That's why we feel it's important that we rely on the Experian database (which powers AutoCheck). They are the only vendor that uses a variety of databases to make their determination.

I know that the information in your report may be shocking, and I apologize for any frustration this has caused. However, it's extremely important that all vehicles operating on our platform meet the highest industry standards so that we can confidently ensure the safety of our riders and partner-drivers. We appreciate your cooperation with this effort.

Please know that we're here to help make the transition to a new vehicle as easy as possible. I'm more than happy to help you assess your options, answer any questions, or get another vehicle added to your account.

Thanks,

*Gabrielle*
help.uber.com


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## syplex (Jul 29, 2015)

Again...a state-certified inspector can prove there is no frame damage, the title is clean, the car passes inspection every year, there is proof of normal maintenance and normal tire wear, and AutoCheck themselves has stated Auction will do this even if there isn't a large amount of damage just to relieve themselves of liability........what a shame.


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## bezi_NY (Feb 28, 2015)

Auto check is reporting that the auction house has stated that the vehicle you purchased has frame damage. Is that correct?


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## syplex (Jul 29, 2015)

Yes.


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## BlackStallion (Apr 24, 2015)

syplex said:


> Latest E-Mail Response...
> .....
> *Please know that we're here to help make the transition to a new vehicle as easy as possible*. I'm more than happy to help you assess your options, answer any questions, or get another vehicle added to your account.
> 
> ...


Clearly, their motives are clear. I don't think this fight is worth your time and effort to be quite honest. If you really want to continue doing this ridesharing thing, try LYFT. Otherwise I would drop UBER. They are just trying to sell you a new car. HOWEVER, as someone else stated, if in the future you attempt to sale or trade this car and they use AUTOCHECK, then you will have an issue. good luck with all this.


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## syplex (Jul 29, 2015)

Thanks. Lyft isn't available in my town yet. It's a shame.


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## bezi_NY (Feb 28, 2015)

syplex said:


> Yes.


I guess it's a another case of prove your innocence . Very disturbing to say the least.
Lemmon law? It has a 4 year statute of limitations. Contact a lemon law lawyer online and see what they say. I assume your issue is the same as the woman who started the thread. Bought used car to do Uber and Autocheck found frame damage disclaimer stated by auction house rendering vehicle unsafe in Ubers all mighty eyes.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

celticdragonchick said:


> Last week I got an email stating my car would be delisted on August 24. It seems that UBER uses autocheck to look at car histories of current drivers...which seems strange considering I have been driving for 3 months. The autocheck report stated my car had been sold at auction in 2011 with a "frame damage" disclaimer even though no accident was reported.


What's happening with this? What did the inspection show? Did you challenge AutoCheck?


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## syplex (Jul 29, 2015)

My car was deactivated on Uber. They offered to help me buy a new car through their vehicle financing program (ironic). The inspector said the frame is fine with no damage. AutoCheck can't change the information, only the auction but they wouldn't change a four year old entry (can't blame them).

So that's that. Uber deactivated a car that was deemed safe by an inspector and had a clean title while offering to help me buy a new car through them. It's shady, and a shame.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

syplex said:


> (Uber) offered to help me buy a new car through their vehicle financing program


Please don't fall for it!

You could probably get a better loan APR through your bank or credit union. Uber loans may be *usury*, that is an "_*unconscionable or exorbitant rate or amount of interest; specifically: interest in excess of a legal rate charged to a borrower for the use of money.*_"


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

syplex said:


> My car was deactivated on Uber. They offered to help me buy a new car through their vehicle financing program (ironic). The inspector said the frame is fine with no damage. AutoCheck can't change the information, only the auction but they wouldn't change a four year old entry (can't blame them).
> 
> So that's that. Uber deactivated a car that was deemed safe by an inspector and had a clean title while offering to help me buy a new car through them. It's shady, and a shame.


Honestly, your beef is with the source of the incorrect information not Uber for going by it.

I deal with salvage cars so I see TONS of bad autocheck/carfax reports.. You know what else I see? Cars hit in to next year with clean carfax/autocheck reports. it goes both ways. Neither are a correct 100% of the time, neither get the info first hand. Both should do a better job of correcting errors. after all the inspections you have had on your car you should have a pile of supporting paperwork to back up your claims.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

syplex said:


> My car was deactivated on Uber. They offered to help me buy a new car through their vehicle financing program (ironic). The inspector said the frame is fine with no damage. AutoCheck can't change the information, only the auction but they wouldn't change a four year old entry (can't blame them).
> 
> So that's that. Uber deactivated a car that was deemed safe by an inspector and had a clean title while offering to help me buy a new car through them. It's shady, and a shame.


I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you can sell the car for a fair price and get another. Sadly, the truth is, having the car deactivated is likely a blessing in disguise... and will bring you to a better opportunity. Good luck.


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## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

That's really tough. She's got a report that may have incorrect information. He's got uber and their whatever policy safety. And a car dealership that sold you a car that was damaged.

In my own unprofessional opinion there has to be a law that says a car that has been deemed dangerous where the title was marked as dangerous not be resold. however it may specifically be scrapped car not frame damaged car.

My first thought is to go after the car dealership. However your car to be delivered sorry no help here


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## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

That's it look up the lemon law. Prevents dealerships from selling cars that are damaged beyond repair or remain constant repair that are just basic lemon cars. Dealerships can be punished under this law and people can be very compensated


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

William1964 said:


> That's really tough. She's got a report that may have incorrect information. He's got uber and their whatever policy safety. And a car dealership that sold you a car that was damaged.
> 
> In my own unprofessional opinion there has to be a law that says a car that has been deemed dangerous where the title was marked as dangerous not be resold. however it may specifically be scrapped car not frame damaged car.
> 
> My first thought is to go after the car dealership. However your car to be delivered sorry no help here


I think you missed the point. The car was never wrecked. it has a clean title. The flag was added at a auto auction and NO ONE has been able to show any sort of accident damage. That means one of two things.. Someone is really really really fricking good at frame repair to the point where it's repaired with out a trace (and I will put that guy on payroll asap at his own price) OR (the most likely OR) someone make a mistake at the auction house and flagged the wrong car.


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

syplex said:


> We've determined that the problem listed in your vehicle report is unacceptable for use on our platform _*based on industry safety and maintenance standards, in addition to local regulations.*_


The emphasized portion quoted bothers me the most. A clean title means that local regulations, industry safety and maintenance records declare that a clean title car is SAFE.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

JimS said:


> The emphasized portion quoted bothers me the most. A clean title means that local regulations, industry safety and maintenance records declare that a clean title car is SAFE.


I'm afraid that a clean/clear title (in any state I know of) is not an indication that a car is' safe'. 
All a title does is convey legal ownership. 
Only a state inspection can document that a car is 'safe' - and that's the problem: most states do not require an inspection and do not 'certify' that a car is safe.

A 'branded' title is issued so that car buyers are less likely to buy a car they think is new when it has been 'totaled' or repaired.
(It doesn't matter that the repairs are good)

I've titled several 'junk' cars that were not road-worthy by any means (with the intention of restoring them) and been issued 'clean' titles.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

I had a talk with an Uber employee (in person at office hours) a week ago about this issue. I was curious because lots of really great, safe cars are out there with 'branded' titles and/or auto-check/CarFax records that can be bought cheaply for use with Uber...
The UberGuy exaplained that *it's their insurance company (James River) that sets the terms of what they will and will not insure. Without the ability for Uber to provide liability coverage, the car can't be on the road for Uber.*


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

So in this scenario, the ONLY way to get resolution is to get Autocheck to change their mind, which is, from all indications, about impossible.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

JimS said:


> So in this scenario, the ONLY way to get resolution is to get Autocheck to change their mind, which is, from all indications, about impossible.


Yup. Sucks - but that's what it would take. If there is a legal action available to you, it's a claim against AutoCheck or the auction house.

I talked to a car dealer yesterday about what they do when they take in a trade and send it to auction. He told me that to protect the dealership from liability they don't take any chances and will list anything they suspect may be a problem with the car (like 'possible frame damage/repair') on the description they provide the auction house . The auction house then puts that in the records for the vehicle to cover their ass... and THAT is what gets picked up by AutoCheck and CarFax. The information may have absolutely no basis in fact - but there it is in the AutoCheck report.

Obviously, this is not a great system.

I'm guessing the best way to avoid this kind of problem if you're buying a used car is to run an AutoCheck and Car-Fax report on the car before you buy it so that you know what Uber is going to see.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

Maybe you could take James River out of the equation by purchasing your own liability insurance?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberNorthStar said:


> Maybe you could take James River out of the equation by purchasing your own liability insurance?


That's interesting... but I doubt it would work, because while James River wouldn't be the primary insurer for the car, they would still be the secondary provider, covering Uber.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

My current uber car is an insurance total out but because minnesota only does salvage titles on total outs 8 years old or newer or over 8k in value this 05 has a clean title but dirty carfax/autocheck. Uber has so far said nothing about it.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

merkurfan said:


> My current uber car is an insurance total out but because minnesota only does salvage titles on total outs 8 years old or newer or over 8k in value this 05 has a clean title but dirty carfax/autocheck. Uber has so far said nothing about it.


Uber audits the titles on a somewhat regular basis... but I suspect that like many things Uber, the details are left to the regional OPs managers. Who knows what they are checking (title branding, auto-check/car-fax reports). I'm sure that branded titles are much more easily 'caught'... but apparently Uber provides VIN's to AutoCheck for batch auditing... it's just a matter of time.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

Shhhhhhhhh!


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## groovyguru (Mar 9, 2015)

uBer changed my car from an E350 Benz to a Honda Accord. They even replaced the pics on my dashboard with Accord pics. Changed the license plate number, too. But I finally got my deactivation notice yesterday. I wonder what they have me driving post-uBer? Whatever it is, it probably has frame damage.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

celticdragonchick said:


> Last week I got an email stating my car would be delisted on August 24. It seems that UBER uses autocheck to look at car histories of current drivers...which seems strange considering I have been driving for 3 months. The autocheck report stated my car had been sold at auction in 2011 with a "frame damage" disclaimer even though no accident was reported.
> 
> My spouse and I bought the car froma large, reputable dealer last year that uses carfax. There are no incidents listed for the car on carfax.
> 
> ...


POST # 1/@celtidragonchick: So sorry for
this "only-with-F.U.B.A.R./
#[F]Uber-type-of-Experience" !

Hoping that you'll let us know how
it all "shakes out".

Mentoring Bison: Merry Christmas from
♤♡◇♧♤♡◇♧♤♡ Sunny Marco Island, FL.!


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