# Travis keeps telling peoole not to tip



## aJoe

He is Satan incarnate. by the way this was today, I signed up with my previous cell phone and another number and fake name it was very easy and I'm sure a lot of pax do it, all you need is a cell number that accepts texts to get a code.


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## Uberfunitis

I see nothing wrong with the sign saying no tip. It has been a consistent message from him from the start he hates tips, I hate tips also. He is no longer saying that the tip is included though or preventing anyone from saying that while a tip is not required I would like for you to give me one if you don't mind. I honestly don't think he was wrong in saying that tips are included though the court disagreed with him. 

I love the idea of no tips required, and hope that it catches on with more companies in the future.


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## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> I see nothing wrong with the sign saying no tip. It has been a consistent message from him from the start he hates tips, I hate tips also. He is no longer saying that the tip is included though or preventing anyone from saying that while a tip is not required I would like for you to give me one if you don't mind. I honestly don't think he was wrong in saying that tips are included though the court disagreed with him.
> 
> I love the idea of no tips required, and hope that it catches on with more companies in the future.


and 96% or tipped employees would quit working and prices would go up to make up for it. Right now if I got 20% on every ride I still would not be making any income after deducting my dead miles and claiming the tips as income, that's how badly the pay per mile and minute is.


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## Uberfunitis

Sure prices would go up, I do not doubt that, I have no problem with that. I do not believe that they would end up going up by as much as the average expected tip though as market pressure would keep prices down. 

The IRS per mile rate is far too generous and not reflective of reality and the actual cost of operating the vast majority of vehicles use for Uber, especially Uber X.


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## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> Sure prices would go up, I do not doubt that, I have no problem with that. I do not believe that they would end up going up by as much as the average expected tip though as market pressure would keep prices down.
> 
> The IRS per mile rate is far too generous and not reflective of reality and the actual cost of operating the vast majority of vehicles use for Uber, especially Uber X.


But that's just not true. If I have a low speed fender bender or am run off the road and my airbags go off, first of all if a driver is in the front seat they may be injured. If they are not in the front seat the sensor won't activate it. If I have to replace that airbag it can cost me $1000 and that's more Revenue (not income) after gas that I have made driving in 6 weeks. There are a lot of variables built into that rate and drivers in most places can not make even $1 an hour, plus the government does not give freebies, they lowered it .5 cents this year. While it is an average and lower cost vehicles make out better it's still a real number to go by. People are online for 400 hours a month to make $800 in revenue before gas in many places. I've been online a whole day without a ping and one Saturday I only did one ride for $4.

The fact still is that Uber does not pay me a penny of income after deductions. Trust me the government wants us to pay taxes but Uber rates are too low, so Uber is screwing the IRS too


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## Uberfunitis

aJoe said:


> The fact still is that Uber does not pay me a penny of income after deductions.


Why continue with Uber if you are not being compensated at a level you feel is sufficient?

Uber does not like tips, they never have and more than likely never will and I am with them on that. I would not continue in something that is not profitable for me with the hope that it will become more profitable for me, especially as an Uber driver. If history has shown us anything, it is that your Uber experience will become harder and harder to turn a profit not the other way around.

I can not speak for you or your market but for me Uber is profitable, though not much above min wage. could I get that anywhere else... absolutely, but I enjoy driving and the flexibility I have with Uber something I would be hard pressed to find elsewhere min wage or not.


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## steveK2016

I oppose tips in that I would rather just pay more for the item then pay a tip.

However, while the price is artificially low, tips can be the tipping point in not just Uber and Lyft, but other professions like Wait Staff.

I would much rather go to a restaurant and pay 20% more upfront then have to worry about a tip, but not tipping before that price increase doesn't solve the problem.

Likewise, at $0.75 a mile, it is an artificially low price that requires tipping. I'd gladly not worry about tipping if the rates were higher, equal to Select rates of $2.00 a mile. I am not stressed over whether a Select pax tips or not because I know the rate is acceptable, but with a non-Surge X it's necessary.

Not tipping your X uber driver is akin to just not tipping your wait staff because you disagree with the act of tipping and would rather pay more. Well, until they are being paid more, tip.


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## Uberfunitis

Hell no, the ONLY reason I will tip wait staff is if I am going back to that establishment and don't want my food spat in. Uber drivers don't have that leverage so no tip for them. Also on Uber you have the company saying NO TIP Required, the company thinks they pay enough not to require tips who am I to argue with that as a consumer, who does not like to tip anyways.

Additionally I would argue that the compensation for Uber drivers is high enough not to require a tip, this can be seen by the over saturation of drivers. If it were hard to get a ride because people were not willing to drive for the given rate than I would agree that the pay should be higher. As it stands now even at base rates there does not seem to be a problem finding a car to take you from point A to B. I have only ever had a problem with pool getting a ride and that was only once.


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## steveK2016

Uberfunitis said:


> Hell no, the ONLY reason I will tip wait staff is if I am going back to that establishment and don't want my food spat in. Uber drivers don't have that leverage so no tip for them. Also on Uber you have the company saying NO TIP Required, the company thinks they pay enough not to require tips who am I to argue with that as a consumer, who does not like to tip anyways.
> 
> Additionally I would argue that the compensation for Uber drivers is high enough not to require a tip, this can be seen by the over saturation of drivers. If it were hard to get a ride because people were not willing to drive for the given rate than I would agree that the pay should be higher. As it stands now even at base rates there does not seem to be a problem finding a car to take you from point A to B. I have only ever had a problem with pool getting a ride and that was only once.


Ahh so your reasons to tip is for selfish reasons rather than being a good, decent person knowing that the service you recieved was highly discounted at the cost of the work force.

Gotcha. Duly noted.

Its one thing for a typical consumer to believe that but you drive and know better.


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## Uberfunitis

steveK2016 said:


> Ahh so your reasons to tip is for selfish reasons rather than being a good, decent person knowing that the service you recieved was highly discounted at the cost of the work force.
> 
> Gotcha. Duly noted.
> 
> Its one thing for a typical consumer to believe that but you drive and know better.


Compensation is an amoral topic provided you are talking about consenting adults. There is only supply and demand if you pay more than is absolutely required, that is charity. There is nothing wrong with charity I give often to causes and to people, but I do not pretend it is fair compensation for work completed.


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## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> Additionally I would argue that the compensation for Uber drivers is high enough not to require a tip, this can be seen by the over saturation of drivers. If it were hard to get a ride because people were not willing to drive for the given rate than I would agree that the pay should be higher. As it stands now even at base rates there does not seem to be a problem finding a car to take you from point A to B. I have only ever had a problem with pool getting a ride and that was only once.


This just goes to show people's desperation to use an Uber payday loan against their car depreciation and gas expenses.

I would argue that if the pay was fair and the start system was fair 96 out of 100 drivers would not quit.

Drivers join because they don't know how much crap you have to take or put up with or how little you make.

Plus you can not go to work when you don't want to. You also don't have to put an a dumb uniform and hand people Big Macs, but at least at McD the pay is better, you are treated better by your company, and you don't ruin your car.


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## Uberfunitis

turnover is high at almost all min wage jobs it is just the nature of the beast.


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## Veju

**** this guy.


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## Drivincrazy

So now we have two cheerleaders on board the no tip brigade. From now on, we just tell bartenders, waiters, shoe shiners, etc. That Travis and uberfunitis said no tip necessary. Somebody find uberfunitis; take a ride, sit in front and as you near end of ride, get your wallet out and start counting your cash like you are going to tip him. Naturally, tip him with 5 Stars...appreciate the ride and conversation...see ya'


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## aJoe

Drivincrazy said:


> So now we have two cheerleaders on board the no tip brigade. From now on, we just tell bartenders, waiters, shoe shiners, etc. That Travis and uberfunitis said no tip necessary. Somebody find uberfunitis; take a ride, sit in front and as you near end of ride, get your wallet out and start counting your cash like you are going to tip him. Naturally, tip him with 5 Stars...appreciate the ride and conversation...see ya'


No he gets no tip and 1 star and all demerits for professionalism etc. Lets see how big an Uber cheerleader he is when Uber cans him for low ratings.

By the way he will never add tipping on the app unless he is forced to by all the execs and investors and other inside threats of all quitting. He is a win at all odds kind of person, and he had put his foot down and decided that tipping the drivers is a bad thing, to him it's a game that he won't lose. So the only way he will do it is if he is forced to like NY is trying to do.


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## Uberfunitis

aJoe said:


> No he gets no tip and 1 star and all demerits for professionalism etc. Lets see how big an Uber cheerleader he is when Uber cans him for low ratings.


I will also begin rating one star for professionalism while riding, whenever I see those obnoxious tip signs and jars.


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## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> I will also begin rating one star for professionalism while riding, whenever I see those obnoxious tip signs and jars.


Yes I am aware that cheap people are offended when they take a taxi ride which is what Uber is and pretend that they do not have to tip. But you never have to tip, so go eat at restaurants and save money.


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## Veju

Drivincrazy said:


> So now we have two cheerleaders on board the no tip brigade. From now on, we just tell bartenders, waiters, shoe shiners, etc. That Travis and uberfunitis said no tip necessary. Somebody find uberfunitis; take a ride, sit in front and as you near end of ride, get your wallet out and start counting your cash like you are going to tip him. Naturally, tip him with 5 Stars...appreciate the ride and conversation...see ya'


Better yet take a hot steaming dump on his back seat and cancel your card on file. Get out at your destination with a smile. No tip necessary.


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## aJoe

Veju said:


> Better yet take a hot steaming dump on his back seat and cancel your card on file. Get out at your destination with a smile. No tip necessary.


and canceled card means Uber has to either pay the cleaning fee or the driver does, and since Uber pays for nothing guess what happens $#!+ happens.


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## steveK2016

Uberfunitis said:


> I will also begin rating one star for professionalism while riding, whenever I see those obnoxious tip signs and jars.


There's always that guy who will take his cheap ass to new lows and punish the driver just because he's too cheap to offer a tip. As I said, it's even worse knowing you are a driver yourself.

We get it, you're a cheap ass.

I get it, I'm not a fan of tipping. I'd rather something cost more upfront. However, I'm not delusional enough to ignore the fact that the rates are too low at X and by not tipping, all that does is stiff the driver. When I see rates increase for X, I'll feel comfortable not tipping.

I'd rather go to any restaurant and pay 20% more for my food and not have to worry about tipping my waitress, but just not tipping my waitress because I disagree with tipping is a dick move, even if I don't plan on returning to that restaurant.


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## Uberfunitis

steveK2016 said:


> I'd rather go to any restaurant and pay 20% more for my food and not have to worry about tipping my waitress.


Where does 20% come from?

Just how much does a server deserve for bringing out a plate and a few drinks? If I use your 20% and an average sit down establishment and assuming an average of two people eating food plus drinks at $15 each thats $30 for a table of two or $6 for that table. Let us say that the server has on average 4 tables / hour thats $24 an hour plus whatever two and change the restaurant throws on top, and these are all low side calculations. $26 / hour seems far to great of compensation unless talking extremely high end restaurants. I would go with 10% at most though even that is a stretch.

How do you change the culture to make tips included in the price of the meal? It is not going to happen by a server initiative because they will likely get screwed eventually as the prices get pushed back down after the transformation. The only way is for individuals to say enough of this BS and stop tipping on their own. Servers will be reluctant to work for two something an hour, with more people not tipping, servers will stop working, forcing the employers to pay higher wages and get rid of the tip.

Does it screw the server during the transformation? Sure, but change is painful sometimes.

Where does this notion of tying the amount of a tip to the cost of the food come from anyway? Does it really require more work to bring a burger and fries an a glass of water vs a rack of baby back ribs and a beer?


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## Cableguynoe

Uberfunitis said:


> I honestly don't think he was wrong in saying that tips are included though the court disagreed with him.


If you don't like tipping, that's fine. Don't tip. But how can you possibly say that you don't see anything wrong with lying to your customers about tips being included? That's ridiculous. I get that you're cheap, but you can't possibly be that stupid to think there's nothing wrong with it.
Statements like that make you lose all credibility in any other arguments you're trying to make here.


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## handiacefailure

Why is travis so anti-tipping? It isn't costing him a penny if the passenger tips. In fact if he said something along the lines of "Tips aren't required but are greatly appreciated" and more people tipped his drivers would be happier and treating their passengers better resulting in more rides. 

I won't pick up passengers more than a half mile away since most people don't tip. If I knew I had a really good chance at a tip I would probably expand my pick up area resulinting on more rides and more money for Uber. I'm not going to drive three miles to risk a minimum trip fare that might be the opposite direction of my house with no tip


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## Uberfunitis

Cableguynoe said:


> If you don't like tipping, that's fine. Don't tip. But how can you possibly say that you don't see anything wrong with lying to your customers about tips being included? That's ridiculous. I get that you're cheap, but you can't possibly be that stupid to think there's nothing wrong with it.
> Statements like that make you lose all credibility in any other arguments you're trying to make here.


It is not really lying though to say that tips are included in the price. All that is saying is that you believe that the compensation provided is sufficient at the price point given not to require a tip. One can argue that the compensation is not high enough and should be greater but there is nothing factually incorrect to say that the tip is included. All that "tips are included" means really is that his compensation to the drivers is not making an assumption that you will tip and factoring that into what he is going to pay us.


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## Cableguynoe

Travis wants the rides to be as cheap as possible so more people can use Uber.
I get that. But to go as far to lie so people don't feel the need to tip is going too far. If they want to tip, let them tip.



Uberfunitis said:


> It is not really lying though to say that tips are included in the price. All that is saying is that you believe that the compensation provided is sufficient at the price point given not to require a tip. One can argue that the compensation is not high enough and should be greater but there is nothing factually incorrect to say that the tip is included. All that "tips are included" means really is that his compensation to the drivers is not making an assumption that you will tip and factoring that into what he is going to pay us.


You are SOOOO wrong. It is lying! A tip is a tip. Don't try to change the definition of tip.
If you think the compensation is enough, fine. Say tips are not necessary. But by saying that they're included is lying.
Don't kid yourself. A lie is a lie.

Just because you disagree with this tipping thing doesn't mean you have to twist things to make your arguments. I told you before, you lose credibility.


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## Uberfunitis

handiacefailure said:


> Why is travis so anti-tipping? It isn't costing him a penny if the passenger tips. In fact if he said something along the lines of "Tips aren't required but are greatly appreciated" and more people tipped his drivers would be happier and treating their passengers better resulting in more rides.


Travis is making a gamble that more people will use the service if the price is lower, that does make him more money as he charges a flat fee for each ride in addition to distance and time. If people feel that they need to tip that will be factored into the price when they make their determination to take an Uber or some other form of transportation. I know I look at the price of Uber / Uber pool / Lyft / Via / and metro / bus when deciding to take a ride. I usually take the lowest price option that fits into my time constraints.


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## KellyC

Uberfunitis said:


> I see nothing wrong with the sign saying no tip. It has been a consistent message from him from the start he hates tips, I hate tips also. He is no longer saying that the tip is included though or preventing anyone from saying that while a tip is not required I would like for you to give me one if you don't mind. I honestly don't think he was wrong in saying that tips are included though the court disagreed with him.
> 
> I love the idea of no tips required, and hope that it catches on with more companies in the future.


Lmao, shee-it.


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## canyon

Uberfunitis said:


> I see nothing wrong with the sign saying no tip. It has been a consistent message from him from the start he hates tips, I hate tips also. He is no longer saying that the tip is included though or preventing anyone from saying that while a tip is not required I would like for you to give me one if you don't mind. I honestly don't think he was wrong in saying that tips are included though the court disagreed with him.
> 
> I love the idea of no tips required, and hope that it catches on with more companies in the future.


 And I hope I pick you up as a rider because I definitely need to give you a one


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## Uberfunitis

Cableguynoe said:


> Travis wants the rides to be as cheap as possible so more people can use Uber.
> I get that. But to go as far to lie so people don't feel the need to tip is going too far. If they want to tip, let them tip.
> 
> You are SOOOO wrong. It is lying! A tip is a tip. Don't try to change the definition of tip.
> If you think the compensation is enough, fine. Say tips are not necessary. But by saying that they're included is lying.
> Don't kid yourself. A lie is a lie.
> 
> Just because you disagree with this tipping thing doesn't mean you have to twist things to make your arguments. I told you before, you lose credibility.


That is where we will disagree when I look up the def of tipping:

a small present of money given directly to someone for performing aservice or menial task; gratuity:

It is not a lie at all to say that the tip is included he is saying that he himself is giving the small present of money on your behalf so you do not need to not a lie just not the amount you feel it should be.



canyon said:


> And I hope I pick you up as a rider because I definitely need to give you a one


Thats alright I don't mind the one, just know that I give ones also when I receive one and also when I see obnoxious please tip me signs in the vehicle.


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## Cableguynoe

Uberfunitis said:


> It is not a lie at all to say that the tip is included he is saying that he himself is giving the small present of money on your behalf so you do not need to not a lie just not the amount you feel it should be.


So If he's not lying then please explain to me where the extra small present is?
When I see what I make per ride I'm only getting paid miles/minutes. Basically the fare that I am entitled to. That is what I earned and deserve. Where is this small present you speak of?


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## Uberfunitis

Cableguynoe said:


> So If he's not lying then please explain to me where the extra small present is?
> When I see what I make per ride I'm only getting paid miles/minutes. Basically the fare that I am entitled to. That is that I earned and deserve. Where is this small present you speak of?


The small present is there look at your pay you get x per mile and y for time. It does not have to be some extra line item. That is the definition of included it is literally factored into what he is paying us. I agree he pays us to low of an amount but that is a different argument.


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## Cableguynoe

Uberfunitis said:


> The small present is there look at your pay you get x per mile and y for time. It does not have to be some extra line item. That is the definition of included it is literally factored into what he is paying us. I agree he pays us to low of an amount but that is a different argument.


So then explain why he lost in court? Why didn't he appeal? Maybe he was just wrong the way you are just wrong. Admit it and move on.


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## Uberfunitis

Cableguynoe said:


> So then explain why he lost in court? Why didn't he appeal? Maybe he was just wrong the way you are just wrong. Admit it and move on.


All that I know from that court case is that people can now say something along the lines of "tips while not required are appreciated" Did the court actually find that the tips were not included as he stated or simply that he can not in essence fire someone for asking for a tip from a customer, I believe it was the later. Though interestingly he can fire someone for getting low rating if people start rating low because they are being bothered about tips especially when the customer simply says it was for professionalism.

He seems to be still saying that tips are included, I don't think that the court found that he was wrong in saying that, and can not say that, thus he is continuing to say it.


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## Cableguynoe

The reason he changed it to "Tips are not required", was because he was proved to be liar in court and ordered to stop saying tip is included when it is in fact not.
So now he can't fool pax into thinking they don't have to tip because it's included, so he changed his tactic to simply discouraging it.
While I don't like this new tactic, legally there is nothing wrong with it. Unfortunately his lies did a lot of damage. To this day, many think it's still included. Hopefully after this explanation you wont still be one of them.


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## Uberfunitis

Cableguynoe said:


> The reason he changed it to "Tips are not required", was because he was proved to be liar in court and ordered to stop saying tip is included when it is in fact not.
> So now he can't fool pax into thinking they don't have to tip because it's included, so he changed his tactic to simply discouraging it.
> While I don't like this new tactic, legally there is nothing wrong with it. Unfortunately his lies did a lot of damage. To this day, many think it's still included. Hopefully after this explanation you wont still be one of them.


You are getting in legalese I am not a lawyer so can not give a legal opinion about any of it that is simply not my field. However from a normal passenger standpoint there is no difference between the two statements. Tips are not required from a passenger perspective the exact same thing as saying that they are included the bottom line assertion is you do not need to tip to use this service.


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## uberboise

Uberfunitis said:


> You are getting in legalese I am not a lawyer so can not give a legal opinion about any of it that is simply not my field. However from a normal passenger standpoint there is no difference between the two statements. Tips are not required from a passenger perspective the exact same thing as saying that they are included the bottom line assertion is you do not need to tip to use this service.


Ok we get it, you're on Uber's corporate payroll.


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## Cableguynoe

Uberfunitis said:


> Tips are not required from a passenger perspective the exact same thing as saying that they are included the bottom line assertion is you do not need to tip to use this service.


WOW. How you can continue to make statements that don't even make sense I don't understand.
How can they be the same thing. In both cases the customer might not tip. But in one he walks away thinking the driver got a extra little "gift"(as you called it). In the other he walks away without tipping because he didn't want to and it wasn't required. But he doesn't believe that the driver received anything extra.



uberboise said:


> Ok we get it, you're on Uber's corporate payroll.


Yeah, really. No sense trying to rationalize with him. I don't even think he believes what he is saying. Makes no sense.



Uberfunitis said:


> You are getting in legalese I am not a lawyer so can not give a legal opinion about any of it that is simply not my field. .


And you don't have to be a lawyer to be able to see when someone lied about something. No one has asked for your legal opinion. Yet you made the statement that Travis did not lie about tips being included. How can you make that statement without being a lawyer?
You're simply a dude that is unable to admit he was wrong. So you keep trying to twist things.


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## Uberfunitis

Cableguynoe said:


> WOW. How you can continue to make statements that don't even make sense I don't understand.
> How can they be the same thing. In both cases the customer might not tip. But in one he walks away thinking the driver got a extra little "gift"(as you called it). In the other he walks away without tipping because he didn't want to and it wasn't required. But he doesn't believe that the driver received anything extra.


Perhaps some will see the distinction I have no idea, for me I do not when I see either statement I think that Uber has decided to incorporate the tip into the price. But than again I hate tipping all together so perhaps I just don't care if they are tipped or not as long as I am not expected to tip. Either way I do not have to tip is all that I take away from the companies statements either way it is written the meaning is the same.


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## Cableguynoe

Uberfunitis said:


> Perhaps some will see the distinction I have no idea, for me I do not when I see either statement I think that Uber has decided to incorporate the tip into the price. But than again I hate tipping all together so perhaps I just don't care if they are tipped or not as long as I am not expected to tip. Either way I do not have to tip is all that I take away from the companies statements either way it is written the meaning is the same.


And that's fine if you don't like tipping and don't feel drivers should be tipped. I told you that before. Not trying to argue that or convince you otherwise.
The only thing I've been arguing with you is that customers were lied to in regards to tips. But for some reason that I don't understand you're arguing something that has already beed proved to be a lie.
Travis himself wouldn't take your side right now. He would tell you "just let it go bro. We lost. But don't worry, they aint getting tipped either way.'


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## Uberfunitis

Cableguynoe said:


> And that's fine if you don't like tipping and don't feel drivers should be tipped. I told you that before. Not trying to argue that or convince you otherwise.
> The only thing I've been arguing with you is that customers were lied to in regards to tips. But for some reason that I don't understand you're arguing something that has already beed proved to be a lie.
> Travis himself wouldn't take your side right now. He would tell you "just let it go bro. We lost. But don't worry, they aint getting tipped either way.'


I do not see the lie and I have not seen where it was proven that he did lie either. Even if a court explicitly stated he lied that is not proof that he lied that is just a courts opinion that he lied and does not make it a fact.


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## Cableguynoe

Uberfunitis said:


> I do not see the lie and I have not seen where it was proven that he did lie either. Even if a court explicitly stated he lied that is not proof that he lied that is just a courts opinion that he lied and does not make it a fact.


ok


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## john2g1

Uberfunitis said:


> It is not really lying though to say that tips are included in the price. All that is saying is that you believe that the compensation provided is sufficient at the price point given not to require a tip. One can argue that the compensation is not high enough and should be greater but there is nothing factually incorrect to say that the tip is included. All that "tips are included" means really is that his compensation to the drivers is not making an assumption that you will tip and factoring that into what he is going to pay us.


I got bored reading about how you're an _____ and wrong so I'll just be direct.

*Tips are included* (the lie you say you don't see) when you are a table of more than 6 or your food is to go at Waffle House. The cost of the meal is invoiced AND 20% or so is added and you HAVE to pay the entire tab or you are stealing. Tips included has nothing to do with the compensation being enough. That was specific verbiage used by Uber to highly discourage tipping without sounding like an _____.

Not only are tips NOT included with Uber, but *anti* tips *are* included. Just like my previous statement if you make $10 *included *in the invoice is minus 20, 25, or even 28% that MUST be paid.

It doesn't matter if the fair is high, low, or just right the driver looses a portion of that money to Uber AND Uber doesn't disclose that to the rider. To a pax $22 minus about $2 or $3 (Uber fees) to the airport is fair and "the tip is included". The lie is that an additional $4 - 5 is taken too. So who thinks $15 for 13 miles and 20 mins door to door service is fair?

Uber isn't like a restaurant where the owner pays rent/mortgage, up keep/cleaning, advertising, non-corporate employees and inventory. The driver pays the car note (rent), up keep/cleaning, recruits additional riders (Uber does share that cost), employees are the drivers (AND that commission pays corporate so it's actually reversed) and gas (inventory). Now let me see the math on for a $15 airport trip.

I hate to say it but people like yourself will not stop tipping government regulation will. *Un*ironically that is how wait staff tipping became a real part of our culture. Restaurants lobbied that they could not pay EVERYONE and still turn a profit. So wait staff got a minimum wage waiver.

Want to end tipping go lobby, start a campaign, run for legislator or whatever. Stop screwing people over in the name of your "cause".


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## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> It is not really lying though to say that tips are included in the price. All that is saying is that you believe that the compensation provided is sufficient at the price point given not to require a tip. One can argue that the compensation is not high enough and should be greater but there is nothing factually incorrect to say that the tip is included. All that "tips are included" means really is that his compensation to the drivers is not making an assumption that you will tip and factoring that into what he is going to pay us.


no it's an outright lie to say tips are included when they are not. For limo rides they do include the gratuity and add it to each fare, that's when it is included and you are free to tip more, but to provide a service where some drivers have so many dead miles that they earn zero income it's a flat out lie that tips are included.

If he was allowed to keep saying it he would. Now he says you don't need to tip or carry cash which is true. For point A to B rides you don't need to tip. For luggage, groceries, stops or anything extra you should tip,


----------



## Uberfunitis

aJoe said:


> For luggage, groceries, stops or anything extra you should tip,


But still do not have too nor are encouraged to per the CEO


----------



## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> But still do not have too nor are encouraged to per the CEO


But we also don't have to help them with groceries or luggage or make stops either. Because those things are extras that are not part of the ride.


----------



## Veju

Don't bother arguing this troll. His logic is sound in his mind and there's really no point in humor if him otherwise.


----------



## Uberfunitis

john2g1 said:


> I got bored reading about how your as _____ and wrong sooo I'll just be direct.
> 
> Tips are included when you are a table of more than 6 or your food is to go at Waffle House. The cost is there AND 20% or so is added and you HAVE to pay the entire tab or you are stealing. Tips included has nothing to do with the compensation being enough. That was specific verbiage used to highly discourage tipping without sounding like an _____.
> 
> Not only are tips NOT included with Uber, but *anti* tips *are* included. Just like my previous statement if you make $10 *included *in the invoice is minus 20, 25, or even 28% that MUST be paid.
> 
> I hate to say it but people like yourself will not stop tipping government regulation will. *Un*ironically that is how wait staff tipping became a real part of our culture. Restaurants lobbied that they could not pay EVERYONE and still turn a profit. So wait staff got a minimum wage waiver.
> 
> Want to end tipping go lobby, start a campaign, run for legislator or whatever. Stop screwing people over in the name of your "cause".


I do not know about Waffle House but at most places you can actually talk with management and get the gratuity taken off especially if you are not happy with some aspect of your experience.

I do not care honestly if people tip or not tip as long as I am not required to tip. It is not my responsibility to pay your salary that is your bosses if you are not happy with your pay take it up with him not me. In the case of Uber take it up with yourself I guess you agreed to take the compensation offered as an independent contractor nobody is promising you a tip and actually quite to opposite fighting against you getting tips.

Minimal wages are part of the problem and keep many from getting jobs in the first place I will and am lobbying the GOV but not to get rid of tips but to get out of workplace compensation all together.



aJoe said:


> But we also don't have to help them with groceries or luggage or make stops either. Because those things are extras that are not part of the ride.


Fair enough you don't have to help with those items but ratings take a hit when customers do not feel they are getting what they paid for even if their expectations are way off base.


----------



## Lelekm

Cableguynoe said:


> If you don't like tipping, that's fine. Don't tip. But how can you possibly say that you don't see anything wrong with lying to your customers about tips being included? That's ridiculous. I get that you're cheap, but you can't possibly be that stupid to think there's nothing wrong with it.
> Statements like that make you lose all credibility in any other arguments you're trying to make here.


And this is from our driver agreement that they can still say tip is included in their marketing materials, website, and app. Just because they say they can do it and we have to agree does not make it right. Unethical companies always go down in the long run:

"_Any representation by Uber (on Uber's website, in the Application, or in Uber's marketing materials) to the effect that tipping is "voluntary," "not required," and/or "included" in the payments you make for services or goods provided is not intended to suggest that Uber provides any additional amounts..."_

Pardon me, but if I read on my restaurant bill that gratuity was included in the price, I absolutely would assume that 20% had been tacked on for the wait staff over and above the cost of my meal. Ridiculous for Uber to say otherwise.


----------



## john2g1

Uberfunitis said:


> I do not know about Waffle House but at most places you can actually talk with management and get the gratuity taken off especially if you are not happy with some aspect of your experience.
> 
> I do not care honestly if people tip or not tip as long as I am not required to tip. It is not my responsibility to pay your salary that is your bosses if you are not happy with your pay take it up with him not me. In the case of Uber take it up with yourself I guess you agreed to take the compensation offered as an independent contractor nobody is promising you a tip and actually quite to opposite fighting against you getting tips.
> 
> Minimal wages are part of the problem and keep many from getting jobs in the first place I will and am lobbying the GOV but not to get rid of tips but to get out of workplace compensation all together.
> 
> Fair enough you don't have to help with those items but ratings take a hit when customers do not feel they are getting what they paid for even if their expectations are way off base.


Laugh out loud... 

Okay thanks for clearing that up you can not be reasoned with...

For others reading who do not have their mind made up in an alternate reality:

NO ONE has ever been denied a job because the business owner could not afford to pay $8 an hour (actual minimum wage is less than that).

If somehow you *can not* your business is* failing* OR you are an independent owner operator/a literal Mom and Pop store. 
You know my business is my house/below my house, home insurance is business insurance, I'm just here to live simple and comfortable on my own time.

Seriously I don't understand (I do understand) Republicans, corporate people, Libertarians, etc who think a minimum wage is the problem. EVERY thing in a business is profit motivated INCLUDING what ever is being sold/provided. If paying for gas, rent, and items are fair why do you want to short change the human beings running the machine that is making you money?

I've heard the theories Travis is European and he feels that he is now a Lord and his serfs should be happy with what he allows them. Welcome to America douch... I mean Travis.

Where do you get your crazy ideas from Milo I mean Uberfunitis? Okay low blow but really? lol Really?


----------



## aJoe

steveK2016 said:


> I oppose tips in that I would rather just pay more for the item then pay a tip.
> 
> However, while the price is artificially low, tips can be the tipping point in not just Uber and Lyft, but other professions like Wait Staff.
> 
> I would much rather go to a restaurant and pay 20% more upfront then have to worry about a tip, but not tipping before that price increase doesn't solve the problem.
> 
> Likewise, at $0.75 a mile, it is an artificially low price that requires tipping. I'd gladly not worry about tipping if the rates were higher, equal to Select rates of $2.00 a mile. I am not stressed over whether a Select pax tips or not because I know the rate is acceptable, but with a non-Surge X it's necessary.
> 
> Not tipping your X uber driver is akin to just not tipping your wait staff because you disagree with the act of tipping and would rather pay more. Well, until they are being paid more, tip.


I don't oppose tips. If I can't afford to tip I won't use that service. If I want food I will get Chinese take out and eat at home. Otherwise I will go to a cheap buffet eat all I want for a set price and leave at least 20%. You don't have to tip. Just don't go to establishment where you are expected to tip.

Right now the only place I go to where I feel the need to tip is the dog groomers to get my dogs nails cut. It's $5 each (cheapest place I've ever been to, I've paid as much as $10 each, for small dogs. , they dremmel which I prefer as well as the dogs and I pay $10 plus $4 tip.

If you want to take a taxi which is what Uber is, tip or walk, take a bus, or get a bike.

Last time I went to a restaurant with a friend we tipped 20%, the server was trying to rush us out but we were talking and the place was not busy. Anyway we paid in cash and it was clear the the difference was for him as a tip and this punk kid must have not thought that 20% was enough he returns it in the brown folder. We should have just taken it back and kept it. I worked as a server before and we depend on return business. If we ever told a customer that they didn't tip or didn't tip enough we would be fired and yes there were tables of 4 that would tip $2 and didn't know that anything was wrong with it, it was part of the job, overall it balanced out.


----------



## Lelekm

I had a rider this morning tell me she would be happy to tip me for waiting while she figured out how to set her alarm and then stopping at a store so she could run in and get cigarettes, but, she said, "I know Uber tells us not to tip." Well, I corrected and educated her right there! Lol. She gave me an $8 tip on a $19 fare. And 5 stars. We have our hands full trying to educate riders about tips, 4 star and below ratings, fare differences, and so on without having to try to educate other drivers on why tips are good. Uberfunitis, I just don't get you, and I'm glad that I don't think like you. Carry on your merry no-tipping way!


----------



## aJoe

Lelekm said:


> I had a rider this morning tell me she would be happy to tip me for waiting while she figured out how to set her alarm and then stopping at a store so she could run in and get cigarettes, but, she said, "I know Uber tells us not to tip." Well, I corrected and educated her right there! Lol. She gave me an $8 tip on a $19 fare. And 5 stars. We have our hands full trying to educate riders about tips, 4 star and below ratings, fare differences, and so on without having to try to educate other drivers on why tips are good. Uberfunitis, I just don't get you, and I'm glad that I don't think like you. Carry on your merry no-tipping way!


The problem is Travis says no tip no cash and people think we are required to make stops and are paid for them. To me when someone runs into a store for 2 minutes I don't care about the 18 cents I can make I would rather not do the stop. I do free work by driving them, I don't want to do extra free work by making stops.


----------



## Uberfunitis

john2g1 said:


> Laugh out loud...
> 
> Okay thanks for clearing that up you can not be reasoned with...
> 
> For others reading who do not have their mind made up in an alternate reality:
> 
> NO ONE has ever been denied a job because the business owner could not afford to pay $8 an hour (actual minimum wage is less than that).
> 
> If somehow you *can not* your business is* failing* OR you are an independent owner operator/a literal Mom and Pop store.
> You know my business is my house/below my house, home insurance is business insurance, I'm just here to live simple and comfortable on my own time.
> 
> Seriously I don't understand (I do understand) Republicans, corporate people, Libertarians, etc who think a minimum wage is the problem. EVERY thing in a business is profit motivated INCLUDING what ever is being sold/provided. If paying for gas, rent, and items are fair why do you want to short change the human beings running the machine that is making you money?
> 
> I've heard the theories Travis is European and he feels that he is now a Lord and his serfs should be happy with what he allows them. Welcome to America douch... I mean Travis.
> 
> Where do you get your crazy ideas from Milo I mean Uberfunitis? Okay low blow but really? lol Really?


If I am willing and able to work for $2/ hour and someone is able and willing to pay me $2/ hour there should be no problem. If I am willing to take less perhaps I will get the job over someone who is not able to for whatever reason all other things being equal. Me getting the job at $2/ hour is more than I would get if I were to get no job at all and we are not at full employment.

The market sets the price for most things with no artificial floor in price why is labor special?

It is true I am a libertarian, I think people should be free to make decisions on their own, even bad ones, without someone standing over them and saying you can not do this or that provided all interactions are voluntary between consenting adults.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Lelekm said:


> I had a rider this morning tell me she would be happy to tip me for waiting while she figured out how to set her alarm and then stopping at a store so she could run in and get cigarettes, but, she said, "I know Uber tells us not to tip." Well, I corrected and educated her right there! Lol. She gave me an $8 tip on a $19 fare. And 5 stars. We have our hands full trying to educate riders about tips, 4 star and below ratings, fare differences, and so on without having to try to educate other drivers on why tips are good. Uberfunitis, I just don't get you, and I'm glad that I don't think like you. Carry on your merry no-tipping way!


I had two women in my car. As we're approaching destination one starts digging in her purse. It's obvious she's getting some tip money out. Her friend puts her hand over her purse and whispers "you're not supposed to tip". The way she said it was like to stop her from embarrassing herself, as if I would have been offended. I tried to educate them in the 20 seconds left in the ride.
This is what Travis created.


----------



## aJoe

Cableguynoe said:


> I had two women in my car. As we're approaching destination one starts digging in her purse. It's obvious she's getting some tip money out. Her friend puts her hand over her purse and whispers "you're not supposed to tip". The way she said it was like to stop her from embarrassing herself, as if I would have been offended. I tried to educate them in the 20 seconds left in the ride.
> This is what Travis created.


Like it's crass to tip, or they are better than that, or they will make you feel like the slave that Travis makes you. that's why tip signs or tip jars come in handy.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Uberfunitis said:


> If I am willing and able to work for $2/ hour and someone is able and willing to pay me $2/ hour there should be no problem. If I am willing to take less perhaps I will get the job over someone who is not able to for whatever reason all other things being equal. Me getting the job at $2/ hour is more than I would get if I were to get no job at all and we are not at full employment.
> 
> The market sets the price for most things with no artificial floor in price why is labor special?
> 
> It is true I am a libertarian, I think people should be free to make decisions on their own, even bad ones, without someone standing over them and saying you can not do this or that provided all interactions are voluntary between consenting adults.


This guy is a joke.Don't waste your time guys. He's a troll. His logic doesn't make sense and contradicts himself


----------



## Lelekm

Cableguynoe said:


> I had two women in my car. As we're approaching destination one starts digging in her purse. It's obvious she's getting some tip money out. Her friend puts her hand over her purse and whispers "you're not supposed to tip". The way she said it was like to stop her from embarrassing herself, as if I would have been offended. I tried to educate them in the 20 seconds left in the ride.
> This is what Travis created.


Exactly!


----------



## rod knocker

I get asked if they can tip on the app and I say no you cant which is good .and they ask why I said by the time uber takes therte cut and uncle sam id be luckey to get a quarter of it . I tell them I wouldn't want the tip then they tip me in cash uber gets enough money I mean there only a billion dollar company only reason I even do it I'm disabled n pay dr bills plus disability don't pay anything so atlest I can work 40 hrs in a month on weekends n make 1400 a month


----------



## aJoe

Cableguynoe said:


> This guy is a joke.Don't waste your time guys. He's a troll. His logic doesn't make sense and contradicts himself


Yeah I just stopped replying to him, if you are gonna troll at least do it well, I don't even get his point that he's pretending to make.



rod knocker said:


> I get asked if they can tip on the app and I say no you cant which is good .and they ask why I said by the time uber takes therte cut and uncle sam id be luckey to get a quarter of it . I tell them I wouldn't want the tip then they tip me in cash uber gets enough money I mean there only a billion dollar company only reason I even do it I'm disabled n pay dr bills plus disability don't pay anything so atlest I can work 40 hrs in a month on weekends n make 1400 a month


Don't tell them you make that much, just tell them you are working to pay medical bills or for medication.


----------



## Zoey jasmine

Uberfunitis said:


> I will also begin rating one star for professionalism while riding, whenever I see those obnoxious tip signs and jars.


I put signs and ratings went up, more pax rate now so luckily most pax do not feel this way. Just because you don't care to see signs, doesn't mean it's unprofessional and apparently most pax don't think so either


----------



## Uberfunitis

Zoey jasmine said:


> I put signs and ratings went up, more pax rate now so luckily most pax do not feel this way. Just because you don't care to see signs, doesn't mean it's unprofessional and apparently most pax don't think so either


That is true, I can only say how I perceive them, and rate accordingly.


----------



## rod knocker

aJoe said:


> Yeah I just stopped replying to him, if you are gonna troll at least do it well, I don't even get his point that he's pretending to make.
> 
> Don't tell them you make that much, just tell them you are working to pay medical bills or for medication.


everyone helps me out I'm nice to everyone unless there n asshole


----------



## handiacefailure

uberboise said:


> Ok we get it, you're on Uber's corporate payroll.


That's what I'm thinking as well. Why would someone that drives for Uber be opposed to tipping drivers????


----------



## A T

Travis KALADICK


----------



## Uberfunitis

handiacefailure said:


> That's what I'm thinking as well. Why would someone that drives for Uber be opposed to tipping drivers????


I am an Uber driver who is against tipping, because tipping has gotten out of control. Everywhere you go and everything you do someone has their hand out wanting additional money for doing their job. Not only is the notion that I should be tipped spreading to more and more occupations the percent amount that is expected of the tip keeps creeping up.

I simply refuse to take part in this scam any longer. Tips are supposed to supplement income, but many times the people getting the tips are making more than anyone realizes. Tips are turning many jobs that should be low paying jobs into above average paying jobs simply because everyone feels sorry for the low paid worker who is making more than them but that fact is hidden. Additionally tips especially cash tips are many times not reported for tax purposes.

I feel I would come out ahead if I were not to receive tips, but also were not expected to pay them out to everyone and their brother. As I have said before sure prices would go up but not by the amount that people are being tipped currently in the end I would have more money in my pocket, and that is why I am an Uber driver who is against tips.


----------



## tohunt4me

aJoe said:


> He is Satan incarnate. by the way this was today, I signed up with my previous cell phone and another number and fake name it was very easy and I'm sure a lot of pax do it, all you need is a cell number that accepts texts to get a code.
> View attachment 120914


Drawn and Quartered comes to mind.

Perhaps, Broken on the Wheel.


----------



## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> . Additionally tips especially cash tips are many times not reported for tax purposes.
> 
> .


How many millionaires that work for cash tips do you know? Anyone who works for cash tips puts that money back into the economy, billionaire hoarders are not paying their fair share of taxes and not putting the money back into the economy, it's just a numbers game to see who can die with the most money.


----------



## tohunt4me

aJoe said:


> How many millionaires that work for cash tips do you know? Anyone who works for cash tips puts that money back into the economy, billionaire hoarders are not paying their fair share of taxes and not putting the money back into the economy, it's just a numbers game to see who can die with the most money.


At uberpay rates, who pays taxes ?
Uber is a drain on the National Economy


----------



## Uberfunitis

aJoe said:


> How many millionaires that work for cash tips do you know? Anyone who works for cash tips puts that money back into the economy, billionaire hoarders are not paying their fair share of taxes and not putting the money back into the economy, it's just a numbers game to see who can die with the most money.


I disagree that the wealthy are not paying their fair share of income tax, you have half the country that pays almost nothing in income tax. Sure the wealthy my pay a lower percentage of their income in income taxes but even at that lower percentage they pay the vast majority of all income tax collected. Everyone puts their money back into the economy, hardly anybody with any money at all would put their money under the mattress. The rich put their money back into the economy in investments and loans, sure they make money in return for this but that money is still in the economy circulating. I am sure that there are individuals that scam their way into paying nothing who have money but there are not many of them and it is quite isolated.



tohunt4me said:


> At uberpay rates, who pays taxes ?
> Uber is a drain on the National Economy


I ran at a profit last year with Uber. If one is not making money doing business, or at least working a plan that will make them profitable in the future, what is the point in doing that job, why stay with it?


----------



## tohunt4me

A T said:


> Travis KALADICK


----------



## Veju

Classic cutting off your nose despite your face hero. If you really cared about doing away with tipping, you'd advocate for living wages. Tipping would naturally disappear.


----------



## Uberfunitis

Veju said:


> Classic cutting off your nose despite your face hero. If you really cared about doing away with tipping, you'd advocate for living wages. Tipping would naturally disappear.


I actually do advocate for wages to go up, I think they should in many cases. I however do not advocate for some law that would define some minimal living wage let the free market determine what that living wage should be. If people would stop taking jobs that do not pay them what they feel they need to live on than employers would pay what is needed and raise prices as needed to maintain profit. Likewise though if my expenses are low or I have income from other sources I should be able to determine for myself that I am willing to work at a price point that others may not be able too.


----------



## Veju

Ah, the perfect world where the free market benefits the prol's. You're living in fairy land my man.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Uberfunitis said:


> The small present is there look at your pay you get x per mile and y for time. It does not have to be some extra line item. That is the definition of included it is literally factored into what he is paying us. I agree he pays us to low of an amount but that is a different argument.


Tips by law have to be given to the person getting them IN FULL. Since uber takes a percentage of everything, tips are clearly not part of our compensation. They HAVE to be a separate line item.

They are also generally voluntary, so if a customer wants to not tip, they can. To put in a tip regardless of the customers wishes it has to be stated clearly to the customer (like restaurants sometimes do with large parties, or Favor delivery does by having a minimum tip of $2 already added in.)


----------



## Uberfunitis

Veju said:


> Ah, the perfect world where the free market benefits the prol's. You're living in fairy land my man.


Never said it was a perfect world or system or one what would benefit anyone, it is the only one that allows the most freedom, both to make good and bad decisions.



Fuzzyelvis said:


> Tips by law have to be given to the person getting them IN FULL. Since uber takes a percentage of everything, tips are clearly not part of our compensation. They HAVE to be a separate line item.
> 
> They are also generally voluntary, so if a customer wants to not tip, they can. To put in a tip regardless of the customers wishes it has to be stated clearly to the customer (like restaurants sometimes do with large parties, or Favor delivery does by having a minimum tip of $2 already added in.)


What law is it where it is required explicitly that tips be a separate line item? There are many establishments that have tip sharing policies or even places where tips are given and fees are taken also. For example a hair salon may charge a person working for the chair etc but still give tips to them even if the tip is offset with other associated fees. There are even restaurants that are advertising that tips are included starting to pop up. I am by no means an expert in law but would be interested in what exact law you are referencing.


----------



## Veju

Freedom is just a word when the people are starving.


----------



## aJoe

Veju said:


> Freedom is just a word when the people are starving.


Communism is just a word where the people are starving.


----------



## Rat

Uberfunitis said:


> I see nothing wrong with the sign saying no tip. It has been a consistent message from him from the start he hates tips, I hate tips also. He is no longer saying that the tip is included though or preventing anyone from saying that while a tip is not required I would like for you to give me one if you don't mind. I honestly don't think he was wrong in saying that tips are included though the court disagreed with him.
> 
> I love the idea of no tips required, and hope that it catches on with more companies in the future.


Tips aren't included, saying so is both a lie and interference in free trade. Tips have never been required, but are a social norm.



Uberfunitis said:


> Hell no, the ONLY reason I will tip wait staff is if I am going back to that establishment and don't want my food spat in. Uber drivers don't have that leverage so no tip for them. Also on Uber you have the company saying NO TIP Required, the company thinks they pay enough not to require tips who am I to argue with that as a consumer, who does not like to tip anyways.
> 
> Additionally I would argue that the compensation for Uber drivers is high enough not to require a tip, this can be seen by the over saturation of drivers. If it were hard to get a ride because people were not willing to drive for the given rate than I would agree that the pay should be higher. As it stands now even at base rates there does not seem to be a problem finding a car to take you from point A to B. I have only ever had a problem with pool getting a ride and that was only once.


You are a cheap bastard and an embarrassment to your family. The reason there is an over abundance of drivers is due to a lack of available jobs, not high pay to drivers.



Uberfunitis said:


> turnover is high at almost all min wage jobs it is just the nature of the beast.


No industry but rideshare has a 96% turnover rate. Note rideshare is usually not even a minimum wage job.



Uberfunitis said:


> I will also begin rating one star for professionalism while riding, whenever I see those obnoxious tip signs and jars.


You just can't stop proclaiming what a jerk you are.



Uberfunitis said:


> It is not really lying though to say that tips are included in the price. All that is saying is that you believe that the compensation provided is sufficient at the price point given not to require a tip. One can argue that the compensation is not high enough and should be greater but there is nothing factually incorrect to say that the tip is included. All that "tips are included" means really is that his compensation to the drivers is not making an assumption that you will tip and factoring that into what he is going to pay us.


No, "tips are included" means a tip was added to the driver's compensation.



Uberfunitis said:


> I do not see the lie and I have not seen where it was proven that he did lie either. Even if a court explicitly stated he lied that is not proof that he lied that is just a courts opinion that he lied and does not make it a fact.


If you don't see the lie, you are a moron



Uberfunitis said:


> Travis is making a gamble that more people will use the service if the price is lower, that does make him more money as he charges a flat fee for each ride in addition to distance and time. If people feel that they need to tip that will be factored into the price when they make their determination to take an Uber or some other form of transportation. I know I look at the price of Uber / Uber pool / Lyft / Via / and metro / bus when deciding to take a ride. I usually take the lowest price option that fits into my time constraints.


He lost $3BILLION last year. He is trying to establish a monopoly, even tho that means losing money faster than any company in history has ever done. Will he be successful? I doubt it. Even if he does succeed in creating a monopoly, he will have to raise rates, even with driverless cars (unlikely given a $26 billion lawsuit for stealing the technology). There is no barrier to prevent anyone else from stepping in.



Uberfunitis said:


> Perhaps some will see the distinction I have no idea, for me I do not when I see either statement I think that Uber has decided to incorporate the tip into the price. But than again I hate tipping all together so perhaps I just don't care if they are tipped or not as long as I am not expected to tip. Either way I do not have to tip is all that I take away from the companies statements either way it is written the meaning is the same.


Nothing else matters as long as you can save a buck? Do you seek out bargain merchandise made by child slave labor?



Uberfunitis said:


> I do not know about Waffle House but at most places you can actually talk with management and get the gratuity taken off especially if you are not happy with some aspect of your experience.
> 
> I do not care honestly if people tip or not tip as long as I am not required to tip. It is not my responsibility to pay your salary that is your bosses if you are not happy with your pay take it up with him not me. In the case of Uber take it up with yourself I guess you agreed to take the compensation offered as an independent contractor nobody is promising you a tip and actually quite to opposite fighting against you getting tips.
> 
> Minimal wages are part of the problem and keep many from getting jobs in the first place I will and am lobbying the GOV but not to get rid of tips but to get out of workplace compensation all together.
> 
> Fair enough you don't have to help with those items but ratings take a hit when customers do not feel they are getting what they paid for even if their expectations are way off base.


Actually, you are the employer and you do pay our salary.



Uberfunitis said:


> That is true, I can only say how I perceive them, and rate accordingly.


I perceive you as a cheap prick trying to justify your actions.


----------



## Egyptoid

Uberfunitis said:


> I will also begin rating one star for professionalism while riding, whenever I see those obnoxious tip signs and jars.


prove you are not a robot or troll


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Uberfunitis said:


> Never said it was a perfect world or system or one what would benefit anyone, it is the only one that allows the most freedom, both to make good and bad decisions.
> 
> What law is it where it is required explicitly that tips be a separate line item? There are many establishments that have tip sharing policies or even places where tips are given and fees are taken also. For example a hair salon may charge a person working for the chair etc but still give tips to them even if the tip is offset with other associated fees. There are even restaurants that are advertising that tips are included starting to pop up. I am by no means an expert in law but would be interested in what exact law you are referencing.


Restaurants which advertise tips are INCLUDED are not taking a percentage the same way uber is. And honestly I haven't seen that stated. Most simply advertise the pay is enough to not require tipping.. And any business which requires a tip has to say so. Required tips are a different ballgame however, and are paid to the employer directly, so don't all have to go to the employee. Strictly speaking, they're not tips, and get called a "gratuity."

Tip sharing is a whole different issue and is addressed separately.

Oh, this does refer to employees, but we are even further removed from puber, so they have even less right to our tips. Tip sharing would not apply since we are not working with anyone else, so I don't know why you'd even bring it up. Neither would tip credits, since there is no way to know our income since uber only sees our net revenue, not our expenses.

Charging for the space in a salon or similar charges is a separate issue, and I don't know why you think it's related to tips. Yes, the bookkeeping may add and subtract, but the tips will be kept track of separately, despite the person getting one check.

See #9

http://www.workplacefairness.org/tipped-employees


----------



## Capt.Uber

Uberfunitis said:


> I will also begin rating one star for professionalism while riding, whenever I see those obnoxious tip signs and jars.


Guy you hide behind the reasons you use for no tipping ignoring the one clear fact that the rest are telling you 
" your a cheapo and nothing more"

Presses play to a song dedicated to you

The birds chirping cheap cheap cheapo


----------



## Jurisinceptor

Uberfunitis said:


> I see nothing wrong with the sign saying no tip. It has been a consistent message from him from the start he hates tips, I hate tips also. He is no longer saying that the tip is included though or preventing anyone from saying that while a tip is not required I would like for you to give me one if you don't mind. I honestly don't think he was wrong in saying that tips are included though the court disagreed with him.
> 
> I love the idea of no tips required, and hope that it catches on with more companies in the future.


Tip may not be required by Uber but it is required by drivers. We're NOT employees and if rates were higher, we would be able to make a profit without them. Orlando is 65/11 mile/min. It's my car, my gas, my safe driving, my entertaining/nice personalities; I expect a tip.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

Uberfunitis said:


> I see nothing wrong with the sign saying no tip. It has been a consistent message from him from the start he hates tips, I hate tips also. He is no longer saying that the tip is included though or preventing anyone from saying that while a tip is not required I would like for you to give me one if you don't mind. I honestly don't think he was wrong in saying that tips are included though the court disagreed with him.
> 
> I love the idea of no tips required, and hope that it catches on with more companies in the future.


Is it safe to assume you drive a taxi ? How great would it be if the taxi companies started telling pax not to tip ?


----------



## Uberfunitis

Jurisinceptor said:


> Tip may not be required by Uber but it is required by drivers. We're NOT employees and if rates were higher, we would be able to make a profit without them. Orlando is 65/11 mile/min. It's my car, my gas, my safe driving, my entertaining/nice personalities; I expect a tip.


I would not drive at those rates! DC rates are 1.02/.17 mile/min of course before Ubers cut. You are not an employee of Ubers that is absolutely true however you are a contractor and have agreed to that pay structure for whatever reason, I know I would not have.

Whenever I ask for a a ride, and you accept that request, you have entered into a contract to transport me at the rates you and Uber agreed to whatever they are. I have also entered into a contract with Uber to provide payment for that transportation at a rate that me and Uber have agreed to. Those two rates no longer even have to match each other in any way and are two separate agreements. Your expectation of a tip is not included in any way in that contract that I entered into, In fact there is no mechanism in that contract to even pay extra based on performance.



uberdriverfornow said:


> Is it safe to assume you drive a taxi ? How great would it be if the taxi companies started telling pax not to tip ?


I have never driven a taxi in my life other than Uber that some consider to be a form of a Taxi. I would absolutely love it if the owners of some taxi company started saying not to worry about the tip. It really would not effect me as I don't remember the last time I took a taxi however I hate tips.


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## Uberfunitis

Fuzzyelvis said:


> See #9
> 
> http://www.workplacefairness.org/tipped-employees


That is just some advocacy page and not a government page. Even the laws that they try to reference go to dead links.



Capt.Uber said:


> Guy you hide behind the reasons you use for no tipping ignoring the one clear fact that the rest are telling you
> " your a cheapo and nothing more"
> 
> Presses play to a song dedicated to you
> 
> The birds chirping cheap cheap cheapo


I don't ignore the fact that I am cheap, I embrace it.


----------



## Capt.Uber

Uberfunitis said:


> That is just some advocacy page and not a government page. Even the laws that they try to reference go to dead links.
> 
> I don't ignore the fact that I am cheap, I embrace it.


Then stop stating other reasons that are completely invalid due to your admission of cheapness, you have nothing else to say sir cheapo 
Soap box has been kicked out from under your feet


----------



## Rat

O


Jurisinceptor said:


> Tip may not be required by Uber but it is required by drivers. We're NOT employees and if rates were higher, we would be able to make a profit without them. Orlando is 65/11 mile/min. It's my car, my gas, my safe driving, my entertaining/nice personalities; I expect a tip.


Orlando is actually .49/.082 mile/min. You only get 75% of the rate


----------



## tohunt4me

aJoe said:


> Communism is just a word where the people are starving.


Same people running both games.



Rat said:


> O
> 
> Orlando is actually .49/.082 mile/min. You only get 75% of the rate


Why would Anyone start their car for that



Capt.Uber said:


> Guy you hide behind the reasons you use for no tipping ignoring the one clear fact that the rest are telling you
> " your a cheapo and nothing more"
> 
> Presses play to a song dedicated to you
> 
> The birds chirping cheap cheap cheapo


May the heavens reach down and SMOTE HIM !


----------



## Zoey jasmine

Uberfunitis said:


> I would not drive at those rates! DC rates are 1.02/.17 mile/min of course before Ubers cut. You are not an employee of Ubers that is absolutely true however you are a contractor and have agreed to that pay structure for whatever reason, I know I would not have.
> 
> Whenever I ask for a a ride, and you accept that request, you have entered into a contract to transport me at the rates you and Uber agreed to whatever they are. I have also entered into a contract with Uber to provide payment for that transportation at a rate that me and Uber have agreed to. Those two rates no longer even have to match each other in any way and are two separate agreements. Your expectation of a tip is not included in any way in that contract that I entered into, In fact there is no mechanism in that contract to even pay extra based on performance.
> 
> I have never driven a taxi in my life other than Uber that some consider to be a form of a Taxi. I would absolutely love it if the owners of some taxi company started saying not to worry about the tip. It really would not effect me as I don't remember the last time I took a taxi however I hate tips.


People have tipped me to show they appreciate good customer service and they feel that I've gone above and beyond to serve them, and I'm pretty sure they can afford to or they would not be doing so. It's not often but it happens occasionally and they're satisfied enough to do so, because they want to. I doubt very many Uber drivers are getting rich off "tips" and I never feel bad for accepting what I earned proving great service. Many times with $3 trips we have to put up with demanding even at times verbally abusive pax, unreasonable requests and instead of tip we're compensated with a short fare, low rating, and sometimes a false complaint in retaliation. I'm not sure how long you've been driving but most experienced Uber drivers know exactly the kind I'm referring to. Some pax seem to know what we deal with at times with little compensation and tip for that reason as well. When someone gives you tips do you not accept?


----------



## Uberfunitis

Zoey jasmine said:


> When someone gives you tips do you not accept?


If someone is dumb enough to give me a tip, I will take their money all day long. I just will not give money to someone as a tip, unless they have really and I mean really went out of their way to help me with something that I feel is not their job to do.


----------



## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> If someone is dumb enough to give me a tip, I will take their money all day long. I just will not give money to someone as a tip, unless they have really and I mean really went out of their way to help me with something that I feel is not their job to do.


An Uber dirvers job is to drive form point A to point B in a safe and professional manner. Anything else like a stop, help with groceries, or luggage is going out of their way and deserves a tip. If I have to get out of my seat or wait for you if I agree to make a stop that warrants a tip.


----------



## Uberfunitis

aJoe said:


> An Uber dirvers job is to drive form point A to point B in a safe and professional manner. Anything else like a stop, help with groceries, or luggage is going out of their way and deserves a tip. If I have to get out of my seat or wait for you if I agree to make a stop that warrants a tip.


That is where we disagree I have the ability to change destinations in the app as a rider and the driver is getting paid per minute if I ask them to wait for me As long as they are on the meter so to speak that is just doing their job.

If I have the driver wait for me when they are not getting paid like for example if they wait more than five minutes to start the trip without canceling as is their right to do than I would actually give them a tip but that is really the only reason other than returning a lost item to me that also would get a tip.

As for helping with groceries or luggage I may or may not tip depending on how much help was needed, but I can say for certain that I would rate them lower than five stars if no help was offered.


----------



## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> That is where we disagree I have the ability to change destinations in the app as a rider and the driver is getting paid per minute if I ask them to wait for me As long as they are on the meter so to speak that is just doing their job.
> 
> If I have the driver wait for me when they are not getting paid like for example if they wait more than five minutes to start the trip without canceling as is their right to do than I would actually give them a tip but that is really the only reason other than returning a lost item to me that also would get a tip.
> 
> As for helping with groceries or luggage I may or may not tip depending on how much help was needed, but I can say for certain that I would rate them lower than five stars if no help was offered.


In my area we get 9 cents a minute, I don't care if you run in for two minutes I don't need 18 cents, I'd rather not stop, it's not my job, and I certainly am not going to sit in a drive thru for 10 minutes for 90 cents, I'd rather take the 1 star rating. My job is to drive from point A to B, anything else is my option. I don't even have to help with luggage though I would put it in the car and take it out, but walk it up the steps for someone without a tip, not gonna happen.

Uber is a service job which is driving my personal car as a taxi, anything beyond point A to B is an extra service I should be tipped for. And Uber agrees that we can ask for tips.


----------



## Uberfunitis

aJoe said:


> In my area we get 9 cents a minute, I don't care if you run in for two minutes I don't need 18 cents, I'd rather not stop, it's not my job, and I certainly am not going to sit in a drive thru for 10 minutes for 90 cents, I'd rather take the 1 star rating. My job is to drive from point A to B, anything else is my option. I don't even have to help with luggage though I would put it in the car and take it out, but walk it up the steps for someone without a tip, not gonna happen.
> 
> Uber is a service job which is driving my personal car as a taxi, anything beyond point A to B is an extra service I should be tipped for. And Uber agrees that we can ask for tips.


That is your choice to wait or not wait at a drive thru, to make the additional stops or not. As far as I am concerned those things are already being compensated for in the mile/min rate. End the trip when you feel you need to, and I will rate as I feel I need to.

You are absolutely correct you can ask for a tip, but that does not mean that it will not have an impact on your ratings, or that any tip will be provided when requested.


----------



## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> That is your choice to wait or not wait at a drive thru, to make the additional stops or not. As far as I am concerned those things are already being compensated for in the mile/min rate. End the trip when you feel you need to, and I will rate as I feel I need to.
> 
> You are absolutely correct you can ask for a tip, but that does not mean that it will not have an impact on your ratings, or that any tip will be provided when requested.


Keep working and waiting for people and see how much 9 cents a minute makes for you while you miss a good ride waiting for some jerk to get their McNuggets.


----------



## Uberfunitis

aJoe said:


> Keep working and waiting for people and see how much 9 cents a minute makes for you while you miss a good ride waiting for some jerk to get their McNuggets.


In customer service the customer is king or Queen, or at least I try and make him or her feel that way as much as I can.


----------



## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> In customer service the customer is king or Queen, or at least I try and make him or her feel that way as much as I can.


and that's great if you are being well compensated. In my market I am not which is why I quit. I weighed the pros.....in the end there were none. I'm not going to be online 7 days a week for 10 to 12 hours a day to make $15 to $20 a day. The cons are too many, not just monetary, but risk of getting tickets and points on my license, ruining my car, getting car jacked or killed, being treated by garbage by some pax.

In low paying service jobs such as driving a taxi you are expected to get a tip, and good employers understand and encourage pax to tip their employees to keep them happy so they can keep them and not have to find more which is what Uber has to do by offering incentives in their pyramid scheme to get more drivers instead of retaining the ones they have.

Travis has just made it so people can be demanding, cheap and gross by not tipping when they are expected to. He has created a system for vile people like himself to abuse the taxi system.

I know good customer service, I worked as a server many years and the moto in the restaurant was that the customer is always right and we could never ask for a tip or complain to a customer about a bad tip. One time I brought food out to another table, as was normal there. I asked if they needed anything else. After the 3rd time of coming back and forth they said they needed something else, I said " I will tell your waitress to bring it" the customer complained and I got suspended for 3 days. It was worth it. You can't let people treat you like a servant for a few dollars.


----------



## Capt.Uber

Uberfunitis said:


> In customer service the customer is king or Queen, or at least I try and make him or her feel that way as much as I can.


I sense your home is placed o a macaroni and cheese twice a day no 3rd meal
Cheap cheap cheapo


----------



## Zoey jasmine

Uberfunitis said:


> If someone is dumb enough to give me a tip, I will take their money all day long. I just will not give money to someone as a tip, unless they have really and I mean really went out of their way to help me with something that I feel is not their job to do.


I dont think being unselfish is considered "dumb" by most people. On the occasions I do receive tips it has at times made my day even week, and ensures that I stay motivated not only to keep trying my best, but to do the extras that we don't get payed for doing. Uber doesn't even mandate us to carry luggage or grocery bags etc Why would they we don't get payed to do any of that it's a ride to and from like they've all said here. Personally though it's my choice to be as helpful as possible when I'm able to, and Im happy to help even when most likely they can't afford to tip. I don't even rate low for not tipping. However if someone is demanding and hostile I won't be willing to do those extras, going out of my way to help etc. You are paying for a ride, not to rent a driver to be your slave for anything you might need. We shouldn't be rated low for this but there are many like you, who do. Your paying half of what you pay a cab driver and expect twice the work, not sure how that makes sense


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## Uberfunitis

If I can find someone that is willing to do double the work for half the pay It only makes sense to use that person assuming their work meets the requirements. I will pay them exactly what is needed to get the work done not a cent more it makes no sense to pay more than is required to get the job done.

It is crazy to contract for a company who's CEO expressly says tips are not needed, and expect for some reason to get tips.


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## Zoey jasmine

Pax have told me that in their experience cab drivers don't like being given directions on route preferences, don't keep their vehicles as clean, like giving control of car radio station/ audio etc, give out mints/snacks, have been unfriendly at attempts of conversation and get noticeably angry at the pax when they realize it's a short trip. I doubt they'd be willing to wait for 9 cents a min at multiple stops etc. I'm sure it would be much easier job to sit and drive not have to say a word, but some pax like to converse or many of them are tourists with questions about the area. I don't do ALL of the things I listed above, but some drivers do up to the point we're it's expected and even get angry if not provided (like not having an aux cord handy) and rate low because they feel that it's mandatory/included. Not sure how so much is expected when (in my market) they're already paying about HALF of what they would in a cab even with a tip it's way less.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

Uberfunitis said:


> I hate tips also.
> I love the idea of no tips required, and hope that it catches on with more companies in the future.


I'll give you a piece of free advice. If you have a favorite restaurant that you frequent then you should stop going there. I'm sure with your "no tip" demeanor you get a little extra special sauce every time. By the way, no tip necessary for that piece of friendly advice.


----------



## Uberfunitis

per the new and updated TOS gratuity is not included neither are you entitled to it or any other extra payment like a tip. I will now one star and contact Uber and inform them of the violation of the TOS whenever I am asked for a extra payment by some obnoxious tip sign. From the new TOS:

The Fare does not include gratuity. Additionally, even though we often separately advertise and market the Uber Services and other products and services generally (including discounts or promotions to Riders that reduce what they ultimately pay for a Ride), this does not entitle you to any additional payment


----------



## handiacefailure

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I'll give you a piece of free advice. If you have a favorite restaurant that you frequent then you should stop going there. I'm sure with your "no tip" demeanor you get a little extra special sauce every time. By the way, no tip necessary for that piece of friendly advice.


+1 I would love to know what the OP's uber rating is as a passenger I bet a lot of drivers just ignore his pings


----------



## Uberfunitis

I won't say my rider rating other than it is higher than my driver rating, but I have only had a problem getting a ride one time on Uber, it was a pool request that nobody would accept Uber ended up giving me a free ride credit as compensation for the trouble. 

I do not say anything in the car about the tip signs or my dislike for them, and I do not rate the ride that day I wait a while as not to get a retaliatory rating from the driver I doubt they even know who or why they received the one star and professionalism rating from.

The majority of drivers do not look, or do not care about ratings of the passengers or at least enough don't where getting a ride is never a problem, and my rating is not low. If it were a problem getting a ride than I may reconsider tipping but so far it has no effect on my ability to use the service.


----------



## aJoe

handiacefailure said:


> +1 I would love to know what the OP's uber rating is as a passenger I bet a lot of drivers just ignore his pings


I'm the OP and I've only used Uber as a pax 3 times and my rating is a 5.0


----------



## JD352

Uberfunitis said:


> per the new and updated TOS gratuity is not included neither are you entitled to it or any other extra payment like a tip. I will now one star and contact Uber and inform them of the violation of the TOS whenever I am asked for a extra payment by some obnoxious tip sign. From the new TOS:
> 
> The Fare does not include gratuity. Additionally, even though we often separately advertise and market the Uber Services and other products and services generally (including discounts or promotions to Riders that reduce what they ultimately pay for a Ride), this does not entitle you to any additional payment


Having a sign that says, "Tips are not included in fares" is not equivalent to asking for a tip. It's simply passing the information in the TOS to the rider, just in case they might not know  Riders can than do what they would like being reminded of that information.


----------



## Uberfunitis

JD352 said:


> Having a sign that says, "Tips are not included in fares" is not equivalent to asking for a tip. It's simply passing the information in the TOS to the rider, just in case they might not know  Riders can than do what they would like being reminded of that information.


I have never seen a sign that just says that, they usually say something along the lines of tips while not required are greatly appreciated. That is not demanding them but is deff asking for an additional payment.


----------



## Zoey jasmine

Uberfunitis said:


> I won't say my rider rating other than it is higher than my driver rating, but I have only had a problem getting a ride one time on Uber, it was a pool request that nobody would accept Uber ended up giving me a free ride credit as compensation for the trouble.
> 
> I do not say anything in the car about the tip signs or my dislike for them, and I do not rate the ride that day I wait a while as not to get a retaliatory rating from the driver I doubt they even know who or why they received the one star and professionalism rating from.
> 
> The majority of drivers do not look, or do not care about ratings of the passengers or at least enough don't where getting a ride is never a problem, and my rating is not low. If it were a problem getting a ride than I may reconsider tipping but so far it has no effect on my ability to use the service.


We do pay attention to ratings, to avoid pax like yourself. It's not against the TOS to have a sign, many people think the tip is included so it's passing on information to them. I don't ask for tip, it just says it's appreciated if given. It's our choice to have the signs just like it's our choice to help with anything extra other than providing a safe ride and our choice to wait or not since we are not your private chauffeurs. Maybe you can walk or have your loved ones take you so you don't have to put up with atrocities of a tip sign or anything else than someone happens to have in THEIR own vehicle, that you don't like. Or even save your pennies for a bus pass.



Uberfunitis said:


> I have never seen a sign that just says that, they usually say something along the lines of tips while not required are greatly appreciated. That is not demanding them but is deff asking for an additional payment.


That is not asking. People ask me all the time. Tip is included in the payment? This simply clears up the misunderstanding. My ratings went up since putting sign, so most people do not feel the same way you do. Not sure what you hope to accomplish by telling Uber they don't prohibit it. We are Independent Contractors sharing a ride.


----------



## JD352

Uberfunitis said:


> I have never seen a sign that just says that, they usually say something along the lines of tips while not required are greatly appreciated. That is not demanding them but is deff asking for an additional payment.


Even stating they are not required and appreciated is not asking for a tip. It is simply informing a rider that a tip is not included; though it is appreciated if you decide to tip. You would need to see a sign that said, "Please tip me" or "Tips are required and appreciated". Asking something of someone always requires a request to be made. There is informing a rider, and there is requesting something from a rider. Though the line might sometimes seem blurred, it is all in the structure of the sentence.

Drivers could even have a sign that says "Tipping is not a city in China". Though more brash, it is still not requesting a tip.

I understand both sides of the tipping argument and don't have a strong stance on either side. As a pax, I have tipped and not tipped. As a driver, I have been tipped and not tipped (no signs in my car). As of today, I am only a passenger until I see how much of an effect Uber's new pricing policy has on other drivers earnings as I think they will use the new policy to lower surge rates to save passengers money while skimming the profit from the new policy and paying drivers close to their agreed to rates. Personally, I don't believe there is enough information presented to agree with them. Since I did this simply as another stream of income, losing it doesn't have much of an effect on me. I can always replace it with another stream from another source.


----------



## Uberfunitis

Zoey jasmine said:


> We do pay attention to ratings, to avoid pax like yourself. It's not against the TOS to have a sign, many people think the tip is included so it's passing on information to them. I don't ask for tip, it just says it's appreciated if given. It's our choice to have the signs just like it's our choice to help with anything extra other than providing a safe ride and our choice to wait or not since we are not your private chauffeurs. Maybe you can walk or have your loved ones take you so you don't have to put up with atrocities of a tip sign or anything else than someone happens to have in THEIR own vehicle, that you don't like. Or even save your pennies for a bus pass.


You are absolutely correct, it is also my right to expect whatever level of service I choose as there is no defined service standards Uber leaves that up to the driver and rider to figure out on our own. That is what the rating system is there for to manage expectations if it is just me that rates low for unrealistic expectations than nothing happens. However if more people do the same than perhaps the expectation is not unrealistic. Either way the ratings figure out if the proper level of service is given or not.

As to if the sign is acceptable or not, I will leave that up to Uber to decide. All I can do is report that I was asked for an additional payment and it made me feel uncomfortable it is up to them what they choose to do with that.


----------



## Shinezz

Uberfunitis said:


> I see nothing wrong with the sign saying no tip. It has been a consistent message from him from the start he hates tips, I hate tips also. He is no longer saying that the tip is included though or preventing anyone from saying that while a tip is not required I would like for you to give me one if you don't mind. I honestly don't think he was wrong in saying that tips are included though the court disagreed with him.
> 
> I love the idea of no tips required, and hope that it catches on with more companies in the future.


Why would you say this? Why do you think nothing is wrong with telling customers tips not required? Wouldn't that be like a restaurant saying tips not required? Please help me to understand why this is a good thing. Maybe I am missing something. Why say any thing at all? Customers where used to tipping before Uber. Tipping is not a new thing. Did not just appear when Uber was created so why even mention it. Let that be up to the customer if they so choose. I am not a ride share driver. I do deliveries and let me tell you we do way more work then ride share drivers. Traipsing all over apartment complexs , double parking up and down stairs in and out of our cars all night taking food to people for basically nohing. I never expect a tip but when I get one it makes my whole night. Why take that away from us? When it's not really Uber's business.


----------



## handiacefailure

aJoe said:


> I'm the OP and I've only used Uber as a pax 3 times and my rating is a 5.0


Sorry by OP I meant Uberfunitis


----------



## Uberfunitis

Shinezz said:


> Why would you say this? Why do you think nothing is wrong with telling customers tips not required? Wouldn't that be like a restaurant saying tips not required? Please help me to understand why this is a good thing. Maybe I am missing something.


Sure that would be exactly like a restaurant saying that tips are not required, why would that be wrong? It is their business if they do not like tips they should not have to deal with them. Is it not up to the employee or in our case the contractor to decide if they want to work in that type of environment or not?


----------



## aJoe

Shinezz said:


> Why would you say this? Why do you think nothing is wrong with telling customers tips not required? Wouldn't that be like a restaurant saying tips not required? Please help me to understand why this is a good thing. Maybe I am missing something. Why say any thing at all? Customers where used to tipping before Uber. Tipping is not a new thing. Did not just appear when Uber was created so why even mention it. Let that be up to the customer if they so choose. I am not a ride share driver. I do deliveries and let me tell you we do way more work then ride share drivers. Traipsing all over apartment complexs , double parking up and down stairs in and out of our cars all night taking food to people for basically nohing. I never expect a tip but when I get one it makes my whole night. Why take that away from us? When it's not really Uber's business.


And Uber is ruining the delivery business with Uber eats which is why no one should work delivery for a company that says no tips, no cash.


----------



## Shinezz

Delivery has always had tips. Just like taxis have always gotten tips. It is just a given. So to come in to the business and start discouraging tipping just plain nasty. We all know why they are doing it. To placate the pax or customer. Bottom line. The more they can show them they are getting a great deal for the service the more people will keep using it. That's obvious. So they have to cut corners and the tip since uber has no stake in it but has a advantage to not have it then it's an easy thing to ditch. And ok I don't expect tips. They are nice but I don't expect it. I also don't expect uber to discourage me getting it if the customer wants to or is accustomed to. It's the wording they use it confuses the customer or it makes them think something else that they would not have thought if nothing was said. Just say if you feel the service was worthy or something that's all the problem I have. Don't make it look like we are getting it on the fee.


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## Uberfunitis

Just because something has been done in the past a certain way does not indicate that it is the best way to do things. The rating system they have implemented in place of tips is much better at getting people to do more than they would have otherwise, for a tip that they may or may not have gotten. A rating that costs the customer nothing to give is a powerful motivator especially when you know you will loose your ability to earn threw that platform if your ratings get below some undisclosed level.


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## Shinezz

That does not making any sense. The rating system is evil because there are so many uncontrolable variables that can happen that is not the drivers fault. And it does not exclude just plain nasty people who want to rate over irrelivent details. So no. A tip will always insure a individual out come where a driver is not getting a bad mark for something out of their control. Yes it is understandable if the driver did something that should be mentioned, but to rate the whole experience on the driver is just plain rediculas and not fair. And please please don't come back with "this is what you signed up for deal with it remarks. We all know what we signed up for that still don't make it right.


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## Uberfunitis

Shinezz said:


> That does not making any sense. The rating system is evil because there are so many uncontrolable variables that can happen that is not the drivers fault. And it does not exclude just plain nasty people who want to rate over irrelivent details. So no. A tip will always insure a individual out come where a driver is not getting a bad mark for something out of their control. Yes it is understandable if the driver did something that should be mentioned, but to rate the whole experience on the driver is just plain rediculas and not fair. And please please don't come back with "this is what you signed up for deal with it remarks. We all know what we signed up for that still don't make it right.


All those outliers where you were graded on something outside of your control are the same things that everyone else is getting graded on as well so it normalizes those ratings. Now if you happen to have more "out of your control" events than others where your rating is affected more than others than perhaps it is something that the person is doing and is not all out of their control.

Additionally not everyone is hungry for money to the same degree so relying on tips to ensure good customer service is not a reliable motivator for everyone. Relying on tips as a motivator allows some to continue working and providing substandard service just because they are not bothered by the tips or the lack of tips more precisely.


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## Shinezz

Uberfunitis said:


> Sure that would be exactly like a restaurant saying that tips are not required, why would that be wrong? It is their business if they do not like tips they should not have to deal with them. Is it not up to the employee or in our case the contractor to decide if they want to work in that type of environment or not?


Well a restaurant( most restaurants) are paying nothing that you can live on so of course they are not going to discourage customers from helping to pay their staff. So I guess that is kind of the other side of uber. In both cases it benefits them not the driver or the wait staff.



Uberfunitis said:


> All those outliers where you were graded on something outside of your control are the same things that everyone else is getting graded on as well so it normalizes those ratings. Now if you happen to have more "out of your control" events than others where your rating is affected more than others than perhaps it is something that the person is doing and is not all out of their control.
> 
> Additionally not everyone is hungry for money to the same degree so relying on tips to ensure good customer service is not a reliable motivator for everyone. Relying on tips as a motivator allows some to continue working and providing substandard service just because they are not bothered by the tips or the lack of tips more precisely.


Well that makes no sense at all. Because if the restaurant gives me chicken tacos and you ordered beef and your po,ed you rate me 4 stars. How is that my fault? Or if the restuarant was an hour late with the order and I called to tell you it was not ready and you say "ok no worries" but you rate me bad how is that me? And this happens all the time. So don't tell me that is a beneficial moniteting system. To be deactivated when you can't control what a restaurant does or what traffic does or any number of reasons your not getting your food when you expect it is wrong. And not a good system.


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## Uberfunitis

Shinezz said:


> Well that makes no sense at all. Because if the restaurant gives me chicken tacos and you ordered beef and your po,ed you rate me 4 stars. How is that my fault?


That actually would be your fault! Did you check the order and make sure that it was accurate? I would be pissed and not accept food that was not what I ordered.


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## Shinezz

Uberfunitis said:


> All those outliers where you were graded on something outside of your control are the same things that everyone else is getting graded on as well so it normalizes those ratings. Now if you happen to have more "out of your control" events than others where your rating is affected more than others than perhaps it is something that the person is doing and is not all out of their control.
> 
> Additionally not everyone is hungry for money to the same degree so relying on tips to ensure good customer service is not a reliable motivator for everyone. Relying on tips as a motivator allows some to continue working and providing substandard service just because they are not bothered by the tips or the lack of tips more precisely.


And not getting a tip can create resentments and a lot more lack of quality service. In my mind I sometimes think "wow after that last jerk I am not gonna even bother going out of my way for these people"when uber takes 35% of my $5 and no tip. But I of course am a professional and I give the same service to my best ability. And I know what I did not sign up for and that is continued dropped prices and increased uber fee.



Uberfunitis said:


> That actually would be your fault! Did you check the order and make sure that it was accurate? I would be pissed and not accept food that was not what I ordered.


OMG! You have obviously not done deliveries. We are not allowed to open packages and paw through the food seeing if it is beef. We can only count the items. We don't know how the food was cooked that is not our responsibility. Yeah I am sure you would expect the driver to know how your food was made and want them to stand there making sure the proper ingridients where added. And then you would rate us. All was can do is make sure that if you ordered 8 things that 8 things got to you. And if we can see what those are . What we can't see if it is wrapped up is not our fault or responsibility . I would hate to be your courier your the exact person I am talking about. Instead of rating the restaurant you would rate me.


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## Uberfunitis

Shinezz said:


> OMG! You have obviously not done deliveries. We are not allowed to open packages and paw through the food seeing if it is beef. We can only count the items. We don't know how the food was cooked that is not our responsibility.


I have never done food deliveries nor will I ever for Uber, that is correct. I as a customer expect that as a service and will be doing everything in my power not to pay for food that is wrong or cold for whatever reason, and that is something that I would hold you as the driver responsible for with ratings. The inner workings of the business are not my concern either as a customer all I know is that it was not correct and either needs to be made correct or my money refunded in full.


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## Zoey jasmine

Uberfunitis said:


> You are absolutely correct, it is also my right to expect whatever level of service I choose as there is no defined service standards Uber leaves that up to the driver and rider to figure out on our own. That is what the rating system is there for to manage expectations if it is just me that rates low for unrealistic expectations than nothing happens. However if more people do the same than perhaps the expectation is not unrealistic. Either way the ratings figure out if the proper level of service is given or not.
> 
> As to if the sign is acceptable or not, I will leave that up to Uber to decide. All I can do is report that I was asked for an additional payment and it made me feel uncomfortable it is up to them what they choose to do with that.


If you going to "Let Uber decide" than take a picture of the sign and send it instead of lying and saying you were demanded more money or even asked for "additional payment" when you weren't. Asking for additonal payment is a whole nothing thing entirely, You seem intelligent enough to know this but you know that a lie of that nature might even get the driver deactivated and that could possibly be your goal I don't know. It's a bit sad you have the time and energy to look for ways to get working people fired. I guess you'd rather they be jobless and on government assistance rather than providing a service. Even saving lives preventing drinking and driving etc. I could understand that you not liking to tip but why waste your energy being vindictive trying to have people fired. It is not against the TOS to have the signs, if it were or customers were offended I would not have them anymore and you shouldn't be so concerned about other people tipping if they want to it's their money to spend as they please. You don't want to tip them don't but why put so much energy into stopping others if they would like to do so? Maybe you'd benefit from a hobby or sport of some kind than messing with people's jobs not for breaking the rules but simply because you don't "like" something.


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## I_Like_Spam

aJoe said:


> He is Satan incarnate. by the way this was today,


Uber's detestation of tipping has been their consistent policy since before you started. "no tipping" was part of Mr. Kalanick's great dream he had, he didn't exactly keep it a secret from those who wanted to partner with him.


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## Zoey jasmine

Shinezz said:


> And not getting a tip can create resentments and a lot more lack of quality service. In my mind I sometimes think "wow after that last jerk I am not gonna even bother going out of my way for these people"when uber takes 35% of my $5 and no tip. But I of course am a professional and I give the same service to my best ability. And I know what I did not sign up for and that is continued dropped prices and increased uber fee.
> 
> OMG! You have obviously not done deliveries. We are not allowed to open packages and paw through the food seeing if it is beef. We can only count the items. We don't know how the food was cooked that is not our responsibility. Yeah I am sure you would expect the driver to know how your food was made and want them to stand there making sure the proper ingridients where added. And then you would rate us. All was can do is make sure that if you ordered 8 things that 8 things got to you. And if we can see what those are . What we can't see if it is wrapped up is not our fault or responsibility . I would hate to be your courier your the exact person I am talking about. Instead of rating the restaurant you would rate me.


There is no reasoning, notice people stopped responding and gave up. It doesn't make sense to anyone but him. If he is as obnoxious during the trip as here I would immediately cancel and asked not to be rematched


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## Shinezz

Uberfunitis said:


> I have never done food deliveries nor will I ever for Uber, that is correct. I as a customer expect that as a service and will be doing everything in my power not to pay for food that is wrong or cold for whatever reason, and that is something that I would hold you as the driver responsible for with ratings. The inner workings of the business are not my concern either as a customer all I know is that it was not correct and either needs to be made correct or my money refunded in full.


Yeah well if your gonna blame the driver because you got chicken instead of beef your just an idiot. You just want to be pissed and are looking for any reason to give bad ratings. Your the reason why the rating system is flawed and not an accurate system. Because it can be so easily abused and people are ruined because if it.


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## Uberfunitis

Zoey jasmine said:


> If you going to "Let Uber decide" than take a picture of the sign and send it instead of lying and saying you were demanded more money or even asked for "additional payment" when you weren't.


 For me that kind of sign is directly asking for additional payments. If Uber cares about that kind of thing I am sure that they will give the other person an opportunity to give their side and send a picture of the sign should they choose to. Now if someone were to put up a sign that is more direct and said something like "To ensure safe and timely service please tip" I would send that picture as I feel it is not only asking for additional payment but also threatening.


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## aJoe

I_Like_Spam said:


> Uber's detestation of tipping has been their consistent policy since before you started. "no tipping" was part of Mr. Kalanick's great dream he had, he didn't exactly keep it a secret from those who wanted to partner with him.


He can't say no tipping anymore nor can he say or suggest the tip in included, he can say no cash, no tip, no hassle.

Even Ubers response is that drivers are allowed to ask for tips but care about their ratings, meaning if they ask and you don't want to tip give them a 1 and get them fired


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## Uberfunitis

Shinezz said:


> Yeah well if your gonna blame the driver because you got chicken instead of beef your just an idiot. You just want to be pissed and are looking for any reason to give bad ratings. Your the reason why the rating system is flawed and not an accurate system. Because it can be so easily abused and people are ruined because if it.


Never said that it was a more accurate system only that it was a better system at managing performance.


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## Shinezz

Uberfunitis said:


> For me that kind of sign is directly asking for additional payments. If Uber cares about that kind of thing I am sure that they will give the other person an opportunity to give their side and send a picture of the sign should they choose to. Now if someone were to put up a sign that is more direct and said something like "To ensure safe and timely service please tip" I would send that picture as I feel it is not only asking for additional payment but also threatening.


OMG! Idiot. What do you think when you see tip jars on every counter in places you go in to? Do you stand there and snap this bs at them? At Starbucks ? This is common practice every where. Get it?


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## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> Never said that it was a more accurate system only that it was a better system at managing performance.


But it isn't because a good driver can run into a few bad pax and be fired that same day. People don't even know that a 4 is not an acceptable rating, if everyone gave you 4 you would be fired.


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## Uberfunitis

Shinezz said:


> OMG! Idiot. What do you think when you see tip jars on every counter in places you go in to? Do you stand there and snap this bs at them? At Starbucks ? This is common practice every where. Get it?


No I do not discuss tips at the store or at the point of service. However If given an opportunity to rate their service I will rate lower because of it. And if I can see their corp rules and it says anything about not being entitled to any further compensation I will make sure that I email their corp office.



aJoe said:


> But it isn't because a good driver can run into a few bad pax and be fired that same day. People don't even know that a 4 is not an acceptable rating, if everyone gave you 4 you would be fired.


That is actually only partially true. If it is the standard way that people rate in a given location than nothing will happen. That is why the cut off rating that will get you deactivated is not set in stone, and is different in each market because people in different areas rate differently.


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## aJoe

Uberfunitis said:


> That is actually only partially true. If it is the standard way that people rate in a given location than nothing will happen. That is why the cut off rating that will get you deactivated is not set in stone, and is different in each market because people in different areas rate differently.


I suspect you work for Uber corporate and are their anti tipping troll.


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## Zoey jasmine

The smart business's know there is no pleasing some people, everything offends them and their not happy with their own lives so looking for things to direct their frustrations on. They probably start realizing pretty quick who should and should not be taken seriously.


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## Uberfunitis

Zoey jasmine said:


> The smart business's know there is no pleasing some people, everything offends them and their not happy with their own lives so looking for things to direct their frustrations on. They probably start realizing pretty quick who should and should not be taken seriously.


Absolutely agree with what you said here. If it is one person rating poorly or complaining about something than over time they take those reports less seriously especially if it is not bothering anyone else or very few people. That is unless the topic being complained about just happens to be one of the hot issues for the company or its CEO than all bets are off.


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## Shinezz

Well in every coffee shop, deli, pizza place there are tip jars. In bars and cafes there are tip jars. When musians play on the street or in a club there are tip jars. It is up to you whether or not you want to tip. The jars are there as a potential revenue stream. No one has a gun to your head demanding that you put a dollar in. On the other side no one is obligated either to tip and should not be made to feel like they should. That's why I never expect a tip. Period. I am always surprized when I get one and feel good. But I never put that out there like they are required or mandatory or like they don't tip they don't get good service. They will either way. It won't change how I do my job. But it just makes it nicer. I can go out of my way for people breaking my neck and they will get a chicken when they ordered beef and will give me one star. It does not matter with some people what you do because some have this holy then thou interpataion what quality service should be, and all it takes is one of these people and you are deactivated. They could be having a bad day and looking for blood. That's why the ratings are unrealistic and biased. To many vaiables to place your lively hood on. To much infesis placed on a unknown factors. Mainly human nature.


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## aJoe

Shinezz said:


> Well in every coffee shop, deli, pizza place there are tip jars. In bars and cafes there are tip jars. When musians play on the street or in a club there are tip jars. It is up to you whether or not you want to tip. The jars are there as a potential revenue stream. No one has a gun to your head demanding that you put a dollar in. On the other side no one is obligated either to tip and should not be made to feel like they should. That's why I never expect a tip. Period. I am always surprized when I get one and feel good. But I never put that out there like they are required or mandatory or like they don't tip they don't get good service. They will either way. It won't change how I do my job. But it just makes it nicer. I can go out of my way for people breaking my neck and they will get a chicken when they ordered beef and will give me one star. It does not matter with some people what you do because some have this holy then thou interpataion what quality service should be, and all it takes is one of these people and you are deactivated. They could be having a bad day and looking for blood. That's why the ratings are unrealistic and biased. To many vaiables to place your lively hood on. To much infesis placed on a unknown factors. Mainly human nature.


and if a pax is upset all they have to do is say that the driver was drunk to get them off the road or possibly fired or say they had a service dog and the driver cancelled when it was really 5 people tying to squeeze into an UberX.

Any good taxi business wants their drivers to be happy because they appreciate them and want to keep them and encourage and are happy when their drivers are tipped. Good drivers are hard to find an keep. Uber doesn't care about it's drivers. and Yes Uber is a taxi business.


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## Shinezz

Well no taxi company can just onboard a thousand more. The throw away worker Ara is upon us. Don't like those people? Oh well there thousands more with a pulse where they came from.


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## Uberfunitis

Shinezz said:


> Well in every coffee shop, deli, pizza place there are tip jars. In bars and cafes there are tip jars. When musians play on the street or in a club there are tip jars. It is up to you whether or not you want to tip. The jars are there as a potential revenue stream. No one has a gun to your head demanding that you put a dollar in. On the other side no one is obligated either to tip and should not be made to feel like they should. That's why I never expect a tip. Period. I am always surprized when I get one and feel good. But I never put that out there like they are required or mandatory or like they don't tip they don't get good service. They will either way. It won't change how I do my job. But it just makes it nicer. I can go out of my way for people breaking my neck and they will get a chicken when they ordered beef and will give me one star. It does not matter with some people what you do because some have this holy then thou interpataion what quality service should be, and all it takes is one of these people and you are deactivated. They could be having a bad day and looking for blood. That's why the ratings are unrealistic and biased. To many vaiables to place your lively hood on. To much infesis placed on a unknown factors. Mainly human nature.


Is that not what customer service is though I mean especially with Uber there is no standard of what is expected or what is extra. Customer service is very subjective on what is good or not and that is why ratings are good it pushes you potentially to do more extra stuff than you originally thought was part of the job, and the more you can get a person to do for the customer without breaking laws of course and the more efficiently you can get them to do the better from the business point of view at least.

Yes of course being pushed and challenged sucks as an employee or contractor but lets face it there are more people out there willing to do the job and should they not be given a chance if they are willing to push that much harder for the same compensation. On the flip side if you start running into problems finding employees or contractors to do the job than perhaps either the compensation package is not enough or too much is being asked of the people. It is hard to find that balance where you are pushing as hard as you can but not too hard to not get the work done.



Shinezz said:


> Well no taxi company can just onboard a thousand more. The throw away worker Ara is upon us. Don't like those people? Oh well there thousands more with a pulse where they came from.


It is not so much the case when you have a higher skilled work force but for the jobs that get tipped there is not that big of a barrier to entry.


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## Shinezz

Well a lot more then uber lol. All you need is some insurance and a pulse. And your good to go.


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## Uberfunitis

Shinezz said:


> Well a lot more then uber lol. All you need is some insurance and a pulse. And your good to go.


Yes Uber is very low skilled as well, I will not argue with that.


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## Lbd2323

Uberfunitis said:


> Hell no, the ONLY reason I will tip wait staff is if I am going back to that establishment and don't want my food spat in. Uber drivers don't have that leverage so no tip for them. Also on Uber you have the company saying NO TIP Required, the company thinks they pay enough not to require tips who am I to argue with that as a consumer, who does not like to tip anyways.
> 
> Additionally I would argue that the compensation for Uber drivers is high enough not to require a tip, this can be seen by the over saturation of drivers. If it were hard to get a ride because people were not willing to drive for the given rate than I would agree that the pay should be higher. As it stands now even at base rates there does not seem to be a problem finding a car to take you from point A to B. I have only ever had a problem with pool getting a ride and that was only once.


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## Zoey jasmine

People start driving everyday because their told they'll be making more money, when they realize they aren't they quit


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## Uberfunitis

And they are replaced with others. Uber does not seem to have a problem finding people to drive at least for now. If or when they do than perhaps some stuff should be looked at.


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