# BMW says self-driving car to be level 5 capable by 2021



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

The logo of BMW is seen during the 87th International Motor Show at Palexpo in Geneva, Switzerland March 8, 2017. REUTERS/Arnd Wiegmann

German carmaker BMW is on track to deliver a self-driving car by 2021, the company's senior vice president for Autonomous Driving, Elmar Frickenstein, said on Thursday.

"We are on the way to deliver a car in 2021 with level 3, 4 and 5," Frickenstein told a panel discussion in Berlin, explaining the vehicle will have different levels of autonomy, depending on how and where it is used.

A level 5 vehicle is capable of navigating roads without any driver input, while a level 3 car still needs a steering wheel and a driver who can take over if the car encounters a problem.

In July last year, BMW announced a partnership with Intel and Mobileye to develop self-driving by around 2021.

Here


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

lol yeah. "Where it's used". Oh look, another car that can stay in its lane on the freeway. Not level 5...


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## Erika Boyer (Mar 20, 2017)

Everyone wants to make this claim today. Bikers should be petrified as these laser eye systems are having a tough time identifying them.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

As one that believes that SDCs are inevitable, I think that it is ridiculously optimistic to imply that a level 5 system could be implemented for general use by 2021. Level 3, yes. Level 4, maybe. Level 5, no. It's just typical marketing BS hype.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Why hasn't VW announced their SDC fairy tale?












RamzFanz said:


> "We are on the way to deliver a car in 2021 with level 3, 4 and 5," Frickenstein told a panel discussion in Berlin, *explaining the vehicle will have different levels of autonomy, depending on how and where it is used*.


Absolute nonsense. The purpose of the SDC classification scale is to classify vehicles by their capability, not to measure road conditions or locations. If a car is level 5, then it is level 5 everywhere, not just in selected conditions and locations. This guy's trying to say that the car will be level 5 in "level 5 conditions", level 4 in "level 4 conditions" etc. No dice.

I don't like marketing men. They often talk total horse poo.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

heynow321 said:


> lol yeah. "Where it's used". Oh look, another car that can stay in its lane on the freeway. Not level 5...


You should study what level 5 means.



The Gift of Fish said:


> Why hasn't VW announced their SDC fairy tale?
> 
> View attachment 106933
> 
> ...


Could be. Level 5 is level 5. However, it doesn't mean all conditions. They won't be expected to drive across the North Pole in blizzards.


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## WeirdBob (Jan 2, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> Could be. Level 5 is level 5. However, it doesn't mean all conditions. They won't be expected to drive across the North Pole in blizzards.


Will they be expected to drive across Denver, Colorado or Buffalo, New York in blizzards?


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

RamzFanz said:


> Could be. Level 5 is level 5. However, it doesn't mean all conditions. They won't be expected to drive across the North Pole in blizzards.


The levels of automation don't measure or specify driving conditions; they measure how well the vehicle replicates the ability of a human driver. Level 5 is defined as a fully autonomous system which can perform all tasks equal to a human driver in every driving scenario. If BMW's car will only match a human driver some of the time in select scenarios then it is not, by definition, a level 5 car.

BMW says its vehicle will be levels 3, 4 and 5, but giving a vehicle an SDC level which changes based on the scenario in which the vehicle is operating is nonsensical given that the purpose of the scale itself is to classify vehicles partly based on whether they can be autonomous in all scenarios or not. "In these conditions, the car is level 3 because it's capable of driving at level 3 in them. In better conditions it's level 5 because it can drive at level 5 standard in them". Errrr..... no. The BMW guy's a little confused as to what the scale measures.

There would be conditions/locations where a human would not be able to drive, possibly over the North Pole in a blizzard. No difference here, the level 5 SDC would perform all tasks equal to the human; in this example by not driving. Wherever a human can drive a car, then the SDC 5 car will be expected to drive too. If a human can't drive a car, then the SDC level 5 car won't be expected to either.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

WeirdBob said:


> Will they be expected to drive across Denver, Colorado or Buffalo, New York in blizzards?


Probably not if conditions make it unsafe.



The Gift of Fish said:


> The levels of automation don't measure or specify driving conditions; they measure how well the vehicle replicates the ability of a human driver. Level 5 is defined as a fully autonomous system which can perform all tasks equal to a human driver in every driving scenario. If BMW's car will only match a human driver some of the time in select scenarios then it is not, by definition, a level 5 car.
> 
> BMW says its vehicle will be levels 3, 4 and 5, but giving a vehicle an SDC level which changes based on the scenario in which the vehicle is operating is nonsensical given that the purpose of the scale itself is to classify vehicles partly based on whether they can be autonomous in all scenarios or not. "In these conditions, the car is level 3 because it's capable of driving at level 3 in them. In better conditions it's level 5 because it can drive at level 5 standard in them". Errrr..... no. The BMW guy's a little confused as to what the scale measures.
> 
> There would be conditions/locations where a human would not be able to drive, possibly over the North Pole in a blizzard. No difference here, the level 5 SDC would perform all tasks equal to the human; in this example by not driving. Wherever a human can drive a car, then the SDC 5 car will be expected to drive too. If a human can't drive a car, then the SDC level 5 car won't be expected to either.


I took it that they would have different cars at different levels, but you could be right and he would be wrong in that statement.


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## WeirdBob (Jan 2, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> Probably not if conditions make it unsafe.


In other words, people who HAVE to be somewhere regardless of the weather need to have human driven options for some time to come.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

WeirdBob said:


> In other words, people who HAVE to be somewhere regardless of the weather need to have human driven options for some time to come.


No, because humans won't be able to drive safely either. It happens. Even for emergency vehicles.

Even if this were true, we still lose our jobs.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

What level is this?


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> What level is this?


Level minus 3  More "important", the crashed cars in the image are a Ford and a Volvo. Neither is a BMW


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