# Question- Has Uber cheated you out of a fare either by zero out or adjusting a fare?



## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

This post is seeking information, asking for advice, and just plain b1tch1ng. Didn't know what forum to put it in so chose advice.

*Issue:*
It appears Uber is skimming tens of millions of dollars from their drivers. Please read on and reply if you agree, disagree, have other sources of data, or think my conclusions are inaccurate.

If you find my information accurate, I'd appreciate any ideas or suggestions of what to do about this issue.

* Summary:*

As a newbie driver, I was given great advice to double check my statements because Uber is known to zero out fares or adjust them without notifing the driver.

After a little research and calculations, it's likely Uber is skimming between $60 million (based on 1% of accounting errors) - $182 million (based on 3% of accounting errors) from their drivers.

See details and sources below. I've included links to all my sources. If anyone has better or more recent data please reply.

Note: my research and conclusion is just about not paying fares. I'd be interested to know if people experienced uber not paying tolls or other expenses it promises to pay.

* Background *

On April 4, after dropping off a pax I noticed the fare was $0. I took a screenshot of it and noticed uber support. Didn't get an answer but noticed the $0 ride was removed from my driving history. so I contacted the Denver office support. I finally got responses from both the main support and Denver support assured me my account was credited $7.54 for the fare. I was also told that the fare will be updated in my history within 24-48hrs. I completely forgot about the issue until I got the advice to always check my pay statements. I did, and there was no payment of $7.54 I was promised that was credited. (Also the fare still wasn't in my history).

Contacted support again by replying to the email from support stating my account was credited and my history will be updated so support would have the entire email thread. Got immediate canned response this matter was resolved. Opened another help ticket again reporting my missing fare. I was told again my account has been updated and the fare will be in my history. I was given a link that shows my correct fare but it's not in my history. The response then stated issue closed by saying issue resolved. (No more emails from support only web based communicating). I got the option agree or disagree with resolution. I disagreed. I wanted to know why two other people told me my account was credited when it was not. I also wanted to know what measures are in place so this doesn't happen again. Also wanted to know when I will receive my payment. No response as of now.

* How many other drivers losing out on fares?*
Got to thinking, if a mentor told me uber is known to zero out fares and this happened to me on my second pay statement, how many other drivers are getting ripped off by either not being reimbursed for tolls or for uber adjusting fares or zero out fares.

Then I started to do some research and played with some numbers. Uber being a private company it's challenging to find hard data on them. But got some good info from reliable sources. What I learned is this:

On December 24, 2015 Uber completed its 1 billion ride.  See: Fortune Dec. 30, 2015 - Uber Completes 1 Billion Rides 

Average trip cost on Uber: $10.70  see: Money- July 15, 2015: Average Ride Cost on Uber and Lyft 
*Playing with the Numbers *
Taking the average trip cost of $10.70 then subtracting the commission and rider safety fee---
I did some calculations:
$10.70
(2.68) 25% commission
($1.95 ) Denver fee could be different elsewhere.
---------
$6.07 owed to rider

Now let's assume Uber accounting zero out fares 3% of the time:
30 million fares (3% of 1 billion fares)
*
6.07
--------
*$182.1 million dollars skimmed off uber drivers
*
Even if this happens just 1% of the time that is* $60.7 million dollars being skimmed off uber riders. *

Then I dug a little deeper and learned Uber is one of the highest valued companies but pays virtually nothing in taxes. Only taxes are paid by drivers.  see: Forbes Video 12/30/2015- Uber Complex Business Model to Avoid Taxes. 

*Advice I'm Seeking*
Many posts on this forum discusses issues drivers face (along with other valuable information and tips). While the issues are real and important they are not unlawful. What I discovered is potential skimming aka theft of tens of millions of dollars from Uber's "Partners". I am not ok with this! But I'm just a single driver of approx 327,000 active drivers. (That information was tough to find too).  see Business Insider 10/24/15 

Obviously filing a complaint with the BBB does nothing. They have nearly a thousand complaints and have a F rating.  see Uber - BBB Review 

now, the only obvious solution to me is to file a complaint with the attorney general. So I'm asking for other ideas and support of you think I'm on target.

So my question is how many other Uber drivers have experienced discrepancies in their pay statements. Maybe my conclusions are off. Maybe I'm making a big deal when there is nothing there. But my gut is telling me I'm not the only one who Uber's accounting cheated a driver. If I'm right, then I believe action must be done.
Does anyone have any ideas, feedback, observations?


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

I see your point, however again Travass has this scheme setup so everyone is an individual. Everyone needs to check their statements, use a mileage tracker app for taxes and stay on top of any errors. I'm not sure this is intentional, it could be another class action though.  [My understanding is there needs to be enough drivers complaining, with proof of the errors being made and not fixed in a reasonable amount of time. If you have all of that I believe the AG would look into it. Then I'd get a lawyer. ]


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## Maderacopy (Nov 24, 2015)

When I first started driving I noticed adjustments to my fares so I decided to snapshot each one. When I noticed my next one being adjusted I sent them an email stating that if anymore were adjusted without letting me know or give me a reason I was going to pursue legal action. It is just like adjusting someone's time punch. If you do there better be a reason and the employee better know about it. I didn't happen again. After my initial month they have been very good and I've had to make a few fare adjustments due to my mistake and they gladly did it.


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## KevRyde (Jan 27, 2015)

After 3000+ rides on Uber and 1,400+ on Lyft, I've only ever spotted one zeroed out fare on Uber - the screenshot below explains what happened - and I track everything like a hawk on both platforms. I've actually found more errors on Lyft, and their customer service is even worse than Uber's. Oh and FYI there really is no Uber Denver online support group, so know that even e-mails to [email protected] get routed to the generic [email protected] [offshore] queue.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

5 Star Guy. Just because we are individual contractors, doesn't protect Travaas from a class action suit. This would be a federal case because plantiffs and uber cross state lines. Then there are only four requirements that I believe is met. Just depends on how many people notice their fares are being adjusted or zero out. Personally I forgot about it. Now I'm keeping a close eye on it. 

*enough people harmed*, typically in the hundreds or thousands. As I mentioned finding the actual number of active uber drivers is difficult I've found numbers between 160k to 327k . On the conservative side, if 1% of 160k drivers had adjustments without cause or zero out fares that's 1,600. Doesn't take many people to start a class action. Just a small group and it grows from there with right lawyer
* Same claims and factual issues*. That criteria is met. Issue is not getting paid for the work we were contracted to do. 
*Typical Claims* - not exactly sure the difference between this and #2
*Fair Represention* - the named parties fairly represent the entire people harmed. 

It doesn't matter if the accounting errors are intentional or not. Like I mentioned above even if 1% of the fares are not properly paid that's tens of millions dor Uber who doesn't pay tax on it anyway. I can't imagine how it could even be possible to say a fare adjustment was unintentional. Someone has to go in there and adjust your fare. I could see how my $0 fare could be a technology unintended matter but the fact I had two people assure me account was credited when in fact it wasn't is incompetence or fraud.

I'm serious about taking action on this matter. Travaas being a jerk to his drivers is one thing. It's another thing if he is embezzling funds from them. That's why i started this post. I'm interested in knowing who else had adjustments made without notice and/or were not paid for a fare. It's not ok.

If you haven't noticed I got some juice on this issue!


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

FAC said:


> 5 Star Guy. Just because we are individual contractors, doesn't protect Travaas from a class action suit. This would be a federal case because plantiffs and uber cross state lines. Then there are only four requirements that I believe is met. Just depends on how many people notice their fares are being adjusted or zero out. Personally I forgot about it. Now I'm keeping a close eye on it.
> 
> *enough people harmed*, typically in the hundreds or thousands. As I mentioned finding the actual number of active uber drivers is difficult I've found numbers between 160k to 327k . On the conservative side, if 1% of 160k drivers had adjustments without cause or zero out fares that's 1,600. Doesn't take many people to start a class action. Just a small group and it grows from there with right lawyer
> * Same claims and factual issues*. That criteria is met. Issue is not getting paid for the work we were contracted to do.
> ...


I agree, I meant finding individuals who can prove the same thing happened to them might be difficult. I think you might have a case, I don't think you can say for certain a certain percentage of drivers is accurate or conservative though. I like how sweet and nice you were when you started and now you're ready to kick Travass' ass.  Definitely worth a shot, I don't see the employee or price fixing cases working out.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

5 Star Guy said:


> I agree, I meant finding individuals who can prove the same thing happened to them might be difficult. I think you might have a case, I don't think you can say for certain a certain percentage of drivers is accurate or conservative though. I like how sweet and nice you were when you started and now you're ready to kick Travass' ass.  Definitely worth a shot, I don't see the employee or price fixing cases working out.


I did a significant amount of research about Uber in writing the post. What I learned is disturbing. I agree the price fixing suit will fail. Not sure either way on the employee suit.

I do believe I have a case. Doesn't matter if your employee or contractor. If you don't pay them what you agreed to paying them that's unlawful. What needs to happen is increase awareness for the drivers to watch their pay statements vs fares and document it. And find enough people this has happened to. I just started this quest today and already know of 3 people. I'm going to start digging deep in this site and other forums to see other postings of pay discrepancy. When I uncover a wrong that needs to be righted I get passionate and make things happen. The best way to motivate me is to tell me it can't be done. If my hunch is right I'll pursue this to the end. But if I'm wrong, and most people have no issues like KevRyde that makes me happy to know I'm working for a honest company.

BTW KevRyde I feel like you told me Santa clause and the tooth fairy don't exist when you mentioned there is no Denver support. Really thought they cared since they us a special email for us. Ok not really I been to the office and they didn't seem to be very happy or friendly uber employees.

5 Star Guy love the blue smile face how do you do that?


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## KevRyde (Jan 27, 2015)

FAC said:


> Ok not really I been to the office and they didn't seem to be very happy or friendly uber employees.


Actually most of the guys who work the customer service tables in the Denver office are subcontractors. Almost all of the actual Uber employees are "behind the curtain".


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

KevRyde said:


> Actually most of the guys who work the customer service tables in the Denver office are subcontractors. Almost all of the actual Uber employees are "behind the curtain".


So we are all driving in Oz. but would you consider Travaas the wizard or the wicked witch of the west?


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## uberlift (Sep 16, 2015)

.


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## The Mollusk (Feb 13, 2016)

FAC, you seem to be one of the sharper tools in this shed. What sort of support would you need to continue your quest ? Anything that can be done to help you?


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

The Mollusk said:


> FAC, you seem to be one of the sharper tools in this shed. What sort of support would you need to continue your quest ? Anything that can be done to help you?


Yes!!! I most definately need some help. Thank you!

Starting to put my plan together now then I'll get back to you with specifics.

But the most urgent and important thing that needs to be done ASAP is to opt out of the arbitration clause of the partnership agreement. I think it's time sensitive for existing drivers. Once you opt out post wherever you can to get others to opt out.

The link to the post below even has a form letter for anyone to use. Just enter your name in the blanks and send it off it takes less than 3 min. So spread the word. Bc those who don't opt out can't be part of any class action.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/new-...ision-opting-out-uberlawsuit-explained.49472/

One thing you can do to help is ask other uber drivers if they had issues with getting paid. If so get them to opt out and either refer them to this post or to me. Preferably this post so it stays active longer and doesn't get lost in the other postings.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

uberlift if you haven't opted out of the arbitration clause yet do so now. Here's the link. https://uberpeople.net/threads/new-...ision-opting-out-uberlawsuit-explained.49472/

Then start asking around if others had payment problems and refer them to me or this post.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

I think the Uber spies are monitoring this thread. Picked up a couple guys after the Snoop Dogg concert. I was waiting for my Lyft pax, they couldn't find their Uber driver and needed to charge their phone. Being the sweet generous gal I am I let them use my charger till their driver arrived. My Lyft pax canceled they canceled their Uber driver and ordered a new driver. Since I was right there I got the ping. Took them 28 miles across town with 1.5 surge. Took a screen shot when I dropped them off and the fare was $142 at 10:30 pm. When I logged in again at midnight the fare changed to $99. WTF? Good thing I took screen shots! The revised fare had a different pickup location.


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## Chicago88 (Feb 7, 2016)

I had a $27 fare adjusted to $11 for no apparent reason, I connected Uber support and with no explanation they apologized and said the adjustment was a mistake and I would be paid the missing $16 on my next pay out - and I was paid. But still, no explanation... I thought maybe the pax complained and uber adjusted the fare but than when I complained they adjusted my payment but I have no idea what happened. It was a simple ride on a 2.8 surge.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

Chicago88 said:


> I had a $27 fare adjusted to $11 for no apparent reason, I connected Uber support and with no explanation they apologized and said the adjustment was a mistake and I would be paid the missing $16 on my next pay out - and I was paid. But still, no explanation... I thought maybe the pax complained and uber adjusted the fare but than when I complained they adjusted my payment but I have no idea what happened. It was a simple ride on a 2.8 surge.


I'm still a newbie driver. But in less than 30 days of driving for uber I encountered a zero out fare then tonight I had my first huge surge fare only to be adjusted for no reason, then reading other people's posts. Something isn't right here. And I don't know what it is. But I'm sure as h3ll going to find out. it might be as simple as adjustments made after a pax complains. But before any adjustments are made, drivers should be notified and told why there is an adjustment and given an opportunity to share our side of things. What's frustrating is in their new web based help system we can't even upload screenshots in support of our case. If I learned anything in my first 30days as an uber driver, always make a screenshot after a drop off. Document everything!

It kinda reminds me how insurance companies flat out deny 3% of all claims for no reason because most but not all people don't question the denial.


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## bluedogz (Sep 12, 2015)

up until now, I thought I was alone… Thanks for taking the lead on this.


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## KevRyde (Jan 27, 2015)

FAC said:


> What's frustrating is in their new web based help system we can't even upload screenshots in support of our case


On the android app, I can press the camera icon - bottom left next to the "How can we help you further?" text field - to either take a picture or upload a stored image, screenshot, etc. that I previously saved on my phone. I'm guessing the same capability is available on the iPhone app.


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## uberlift (Sep 16, 2015)

.


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## ND379 (Mar 29, 2016)

yup, usually it's the less than 5 dollar rides that when I click on them, the fare total I was paid is $0. No responses from Uber...at least not any with an actual explanation or my money. Just copy pasted responses that say they'll look into it.


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## bluedogz (Sep 12, 2015)

Come to think of it, I can think of at least two rides that disappeared COMPLETELY off my history. When I inquired, I was told "without the trip number we can't find it." Never got an answer to how I was supposed to find the trip number, after the trip was deleted off my history.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

Uber math is like the new math, I just do understand. Here it be reply I received when I contested my fare adjustment:
_Thanks for getting in touch, FALLON.
We've reviewed the fare for this trip. This fare falls within our estimate.
Fares vary by city and are based on time and distance of a trip
Here's the breakdown of your fare:

*Base Fare $0.00 
Distance (Miles)27.64 mi * $1.00 $0.00 
Time 32:00 * $0.13 $0.00 
Primary Subtotals $0.00 *
Surge x5.4 $132.22 
Booking Fee $0.00 
Promotion ($15.00) 
Total Fare $117.22 
Adjustment $15.00 
Post Adjustment Total $132.22
_​How does 27.64 mi * $1.00 equal 0?
Has this happened to anyone else? I cannot believe this is unintentional. Someone went in and zeroed out part of my fare.


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## cannonball7 (Feb 18, 2016)

How much you want to bet they keep the difference as opposed to passing the savings to the customer?

FAC, I wonder if you could ask to see what a few of the nicer customers are charged on their phone before you and them part ways?
You could compare the info to see if the customer is charged the adjusted fare or the full fare.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

cannonball7 said:


> How much you want to bet they keep the difference as opposed to passing the savings to the customer?
> 
> FAC, I wonder if you could ask to see what a few of the nicer customers are charged on their phone before you and them part ways?
> You could compare the info to see if the customer is charged the adjusted fare or the full fare.


cannonball7:
The challenge with that, is we don't see or know if there is an adjustment to pax fare until much later.

However, I think you might be right that Uber may keep the difference based on my own situation. I got my first really big surge fare of 5.9x and drove the pax 28 miles for 33min. My fare at 11:15pm for this ride was $32.50 + $143.22 surge -$43.94 uber = $131.83 but at 12:27am suddenly the changed to $132.22 -36.06 =$99.16 also the pickup spot is incorrect on the revised fare. The response:
_We've reviewed the fare for this trip. This fare falls within our estimate.

Fares vary by city and are based on time and distance of a trip.

Here's the breakdown of your fare:_
*Base Fare $0.00
Distance (Miles)27.64 mi * $1.00 $0.00
Time 32:00 * $0.13 $0.00
Primary Subtotals $0.00
Surge x5.4 $132.22
Booking Fee $0.00
Promotion ($15.00)
Total Fare $117.22
Adjustment $15.00
Post Adjustment Total $132.22
*​It doesn't take a genius to realize 27.74* $1.00 doesn't equal 0. So I contacted them again questioning their math. Next response:

_It's Chrissie stepping in for Saqib and I'm terribly sorry about the confusion here.

No worries! I took a look at this trip and ran a fare estimate. I've applied the correct fare and this adjustment is now visible on your Partner Dashboard and in the Partner App under 'Trip History'. Also, this adjustment will be reflected in your next payment statement.

Meanwhile, I've included the fare breakdown below so that you can take a look:

Base Fare $0.75
Distance (Miles) 27.64 mi * $1.00 = $27.64
Time 32:00 * $0.13 = $4.16
*Primary Subtotals $32.55 *
Surge x 5.4 $132.22
Booking Fee $1.95
*Total Fare $166.72*
Please continue to let us know about any trips that may need adjustment within 48 hours so that we may charge the rider and adjust appropriately_​So I responded again asking why my surge changed from $144 to $132.22. First it was a "confusion" that uber doesn't know basic math. Now the story changes that the customer complained:
_It appears that your rider contacted us about this trip's route. We have reviewed this trip and determined the trip distance was significantly longer than the typical route between the pickup location and destination.
...
At the moment, the fare that is charged to your rider and paid to you is *$135.60* based on the direct route from the rider's pickup to dropoff locations. _​I replied that still doesn't make sense. The trip was not significantly longer. I asked the paxs if they had a preferred route which they wanted me to take hwy36 instead of I70. then I mentioned "What also confuses me is that the numbers you provided (27.64) is nearly the same as my 28 miles. So why did the surge fee drop from $143.22 to $132.22?"

My final response from uber:
_I'm so sorry for the confusion here, Fallon. I'm happy to assist you! I definitely understand where you're coming from. No worries, I've gone ahead and reverted the fare to its original amount. Please note that the *$177.72* will still be deducted of the Uber Service Fee. This adjustment should now be visible to your Partner Dashboard, which will be reflected on your next week's payment statement. I hope that helps. _​
So the question is, are they intentionally adjusting fares and hoping we don't notice? And if we do notice, make it difficult to get the fare that is rightfully ours? Also curious how many drivers keep pushing the issue. My BFF asked me if it was worth the headache to fight over $11. That question frightened me wondering how many other drivers think the same thing. Is it worth it to fight over $1,$5,$10 bucks? On an individual basis probably not but I'm a macro sense look at my math in my original post. Conservatively speaking say they do this to just 1% of their fares (which I believe is unlikely), 1% of 1 billion of $1 mistakes is $10 million; 1% of $5 is $50 million, etc.

So even if they do refund part of the fare to pax I suspect they are keeping part of the fare until someone b1tches enough like I did.

I particularly like how they keep apologizing for the "confusion" like we are the ones confused.

Considering Uber already got caught trying to manipulate Lyft by having Uber drivers order Lyft rides and canceling. I wouldn't put it past them to engage in shady accounting. Particularly if you look at their complex corporate structure. (Link in original post) shows the don't pay any taxes on their revenue.


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## KevRyde (Jan 27, 2015)

FAC said:


> Now the story changes that the customer complained:_It appears that your rider contacted us about this trip's route. We have reviewed this trip and determined the trip distance was significantly longer than the typical route between the pickup location and destination._
> ​So the question is, are they intentionally adjusting fares and hoping we don't notice?


In my experience, Uber doesn't randomly or arbitrarily adjust or zero out fares, so after reading your initial post, my assumption was that the fare adjustment was indeed the result of the rider e-mailing Uber customer support to complain. I would have been just as diligent as you were to call bullsh#t on the rider's story, but my initial e-mail to Uber would have read something like, "I see the rider e-mailed Uber customer support to complain about the large fare. Although there should be none, please explain the basis of Uber's significant adjustment to the calculated fare".

Be aware that the offshore knuckleheads who handle the customer support queue for drivers are the same folks who respond to rider complaints. Unfortunately, their workflow model doesn't seem to include any sort of mechanism to screen for the possibility that the rider might be a crafty and manipulative lying sack of sh#t, nor does Uber seem to ever consider the driver's experience, ride count, lack of of previous incidents, etc. Instead it seems that Uber's default position is to take the rider at their word and put the onus on the driver to present the actual facts.


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## BillR (May 17, 2016)

Today 6/01/16 I had a 14.00 (and some change) fare that showed up fine, then ANOTHER app update and the fare went to $2.00! It was an eightnkile trip up a mountain. The map shows the route, but these scumbags want to pay me $2.00? 
I don't think Uber is for me. I dont trust them as a driver and neithernshould riders. What's with all the app updates? The IT guys must be smoking weed...


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

BillR said:


> Today 6/01/16 I had a 14.00 (and some change) fare that showed up fine, then ANOTHER app update and the fare went to $2.00! It was an eightnkile trip up a mountain. The map shows the route, but these scumbags want to pay me $2.00?
> I don't think Uber is for me. I dont trust them as a driver and neithernshould riders. What's with all the app updates? The IT guys must be smoking weed...


Take screenshots of all completed trips
File a report with uber fight until you get it back!


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## MattyMikey (Aug 19, 2015)

KevRyde said:


> After 3000+ rides on Uber and 1,400+ on Lyft, I've only ever spotted one zeroed out fare on Uber - the screenshot below explains what happened - and I track everything like a hawk on both platforms. I've actually found more errors on Lyft, and their customer service is even worse than Uber's. Oh and FYI there really is no Uber Denver online support group, so know that even e-mails to [email protected] get routed to the generic [email protected] [offshore] queue.
> 
> View attachment 36597


Curious. How do you have the audio recording? I know they obviously record everything. Is there an app you use? Thanks.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

MattyMikey said:


> Curious. How do you have the audio recording? I know they obviously record everything. Is there an app you use? Thanks.


Check in the Demver forum. I think KevRyde posted what he uses to record his calls. Make sure the WA laws are single consent state


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## MattyMikey (Aug 19, 2015)

So I know for a fact Washington is dual consent state. So I guess when I think about it that means Uber can't record conversations when I call passenger. Good to know.


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

MattyMikey said:


> So I know for a fact Washington is dual consent state. So I guess when I think about it that means Uber can't record conversations when I call passenger. Good to know.


you are using their app and their customer, working for them. Good luck telling your employer the email you send on their account on their computer is private. Good luck if you think FB isn't following you to the restroom.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

MattyMikey said:


> So I know for a fact Washington is dual consent state. So I guess when I think about it that means Uber can't record conversations when I call passenger. Good to know.


Not exactly. KevRyde knows more about this than I do so don't believe what I say unless you confirm it. But I believe uber cannot listen on phone calls bc they are a third party and it's considered wiretapping unless we signed our rights away in the driver agreement. Dual consent comes in when you are recording pax with dash cam or voice calls. Both parties must consent. That's why Taco Bell guy is suing the Uber driver he beat up. Taco Bell bully claiming he was "too drunk to consent" to being recorded while beating up uber guy. Since video went viral he's claiming he can't get another job.

Colorado is single consent. So I can record voice calls, dash cam of people in my car as long as I am a party to the recording. I don't need to inform the other party they are being recorded.

But check the driver agreement or ask KevRyde he knows stuff like this.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

5 Star Guy said:


> you are using their app and their customer, working for them. Good luck telling your employer the email you send on their account on their computer is private. Good luck if you think FB isn't following you to the restroom.


Not sure uber has the right to listen in. But they do have the right to read text msgs.


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

FAC said:


> Not sure uber has the right to listen in. But they do have the right to read text msgs.


I don't know but I think everything else is in their privacy policy, explaining nothing is private. I wouldn't be surprised if it includes listening or recording for training and quality assurance. Aka another way to get data off of you. That would need to be in both agreements not based on the state unless they offer agreements for each market, which I doubt.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

5 Star Guy said:


> I don't know but I think everything else is in their privacy policy, explaining nothing is private. I wouldn't be surprised if it includes listening or recording for training and quality assurance. Aka another way to get data off of you. That would need to be in both agreements not based on the state unless they offer agreements for each market, which I doubt.


Well if they monitor the battery usage of pax determining that pax with low batteries are highly more likely to accept surge, you know they collect a lot of data on everyone.


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## MattyMikey (Aug 19, 2015)

FAC said:


> Not exactly. KevRyde knows more about this than I do so don't believe what I say unless you confirm it. But I believe uber cannot listen on phone calls bc they are a third party and it's considered wiretapping unless we signed our rights away in the driver agreement. Dual consent comes in when you are recording pax with dash cam or voice calls. Both parties must consent. That's why Taco Bell guy is suing the Uber driver he beat up. Taco Bell bully claiming he was "too drunk to consent" to being recorded while beating up uber guy. Since video went viral he's claiming he can't get another job.
> 
> Colorado is single consent. So I can record voice calls, dash cam of people in my car as long as I am a party to the recording. I don't need to inform the other party they are being recorded.
> 
> But check the driver agreement or ask KevRyde he knows stuff like this.


As far as dash cams are concerned, I do record audio. But I do not ask for consent because I have read enough that says there is no expectation of privacy in our vehicles. But yes I would most definently agree that in order to record and listen to phone calls must be in their passenger TOS and partner agreement. When I have time I should read closely.


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## KevRyde (Jan 27, 2015)

MattyMikey said:


> Curious. How do you have the audio recording? I know they obviously record everything. Is there an app you use? Thanks.


I use Call Recorder by skvalex on my rooted Galaxy S5 running Android 6.0.1. I have the app set to record all conversations like the one which became the subject of *this thread*.


KevRyde said:


> Yes Colorado is a *"one party consent"* state - which I discuss in more detail in _*this post*_ - so no felony was committed.





KevRyde said:


> Uber uses the service provider *Twilio* to route* phone calls* and *text messages* between drivers and riders, and while *call recording* is an optional service that Twilio makes available to its customers, neither the driver agreement nor the user (rider) agreement provides Uber with any sort of expressed or implied consent that would allow Uber to legally monitor and/or record phone conversations. Uber directly addresses this subject in its online *Privacy Statement* which specifically states:
> 
> _*Call and SMS Data : *Our Services facilitate communications between Users and Drivers. In connection with facilitating this service, we receive call data, including the date and time of the call or SMS message, the parties' phone numbers, and the content of the SMS message.
> _​So in a nutshell, be mindful of what you text your riders, and even though Uber isn't in a legal position to record your phone calls, be mindful that your rider may be recording the call on his or her end. Colorado is a one-party consent state which means that neither you nor your rider need each other's permission to record a phone conversation. Because Uber isn't a party to a conversation between a rider and driver, Uber cannot legally record phone conversations without at least either the driver's or rider's consent. I installed a call recording app on my smartphone that I have set to record all phone calls, and I know any one of my riders could do the same.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

KevRyde said:


> I use Call Recorder by skvalex on my rooted Galaxy S5 running Android 6.0.1. I have the app set to record all conversations like the one which became the subject of *this thread*.


That was quite the amusing call and thread! I'm amazed at the clarity of the recording.


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## TheAngelaMarie (Aug 23, 2016)

I drove three short trips tonight during surge pricing and all three are $0.00 and it says I haven't driven this week. I'm new, I used the in app thing saying "fare didn't update" because there wasn't an option for "I'm being screwed out of a fare"
I don't even know what to do


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## JustDave (Aug 17, 2016)

TheAngelaMarie said:


> I drove three short trips tonight during surge pricing and all three are $0.00 and it says I haven't driven this week. I'm new, I used the in app thing saying "fare didn't update" because there wasn't an option for "I'm being screwed out of a fare"
> I don't even know what to do


That happened to me too, it should show up later. I'm also wondering by when the money should transfer to my bank lol


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

"
Uber Technologies has received 1.06 out of 5stars based on 36 Customer Reviews and a BBB Rating of F.

"
Sounds about right.


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## joeyoey (Jul 3, 2016)

My first night driving I was super nervous & missed an exit. I had to take the next one & come back around & it probably added 4-5 miles & 5 minutes to the trip. I apologized to the driver & he seemed ok with it. I woke up the next morning to an email from Uber saying the passenger had contacted them because I didn't take the most "efficient" route & they adjusted about $4 off of the fair. At first I was upset but then I realized if this jackass needed the $4 bad enough to go out of his way to contact Uber (like the trip wasn't cheap enough to begin with), I wasn't going to worry about it.


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## 10G (Jul 21, 2015)

Also like to add that uber can and will readjust your fare a month after it's already been dispute by rider and I've already dispute that and got back the full amount a month before. A month after on my payout day, My total was different and I check my statement. There was nothing showing a deduction. I contact support mutilpe time before someone mention it's because of a disputed fare from a month ago.


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## Chicago88 (Feb 7, 2016)

joeyoey said:


> My first night driving I was super nervous & missed an exit. I had to take the next one & come back around & it probably added 4-5 miles & 5 minutes to the trip. I apologized to the driver & he seemed ok with it. I woke up the next morning to an email from Uber saying the passenger had contacted them because I didn't take the most "efficient" route & they adjusted about $4 off of the fair. At first I was upset but then I realized if this jackass needed the $4 bad enough to go out of his way to contact Uber (like the trip wasn't cheap enough to begin with), I wasn't going to worry about it.


Uber pax are well aware of disputing fares...never be surprised by a pax sending in a dispute. I gave a ride (.4 miles - $2.25 fare) to a woman who boosted how much she "loved Uber" because she's disputed at least 10 different fares and has always been given a refund...Uber OFF!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

No,I have never lost a Fare.
Some I have asked to be adjusted.
I believe that if something is wrong with the ride,my fault,apps. Fault,UN forseen highway issue,it is my duty to have fare adjusted,not the customers.

I have had $4.00 wait charges for no shows disappear,not many.

I always wait for customer,and always try to contact.

If I cancel due to customer so intoxicated on phone,I usually do other reason.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

My last Uber drive on Tuesday Nov 15... I picked the woman up at her home and drove her to the local high school. We had a nice chat along the way. I ended the ride and rated the passenger like always but the app said it was still processing the payment as late as today. So I contacted Uber and gave the specifics and they just got back to me claiming that their records show that the ride was cancelled. Uh, NO!

I don't know how to refute this. I don't know how to take a screenshot of the phone while using the same phone either... It is not that a single lost fare is going to break me but it has happened more than once. I had begun to think that my APP was corrupted, but now I am thinking deliberate theft....


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## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

What kind of phone do you use?


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## SunnySonya (Oct 18, 2016)

I had 3 0$ fares last Sat.....but I knew I had completed those fares. 
I sent a support ticket. 
No real explanation, just an assurance that it had been adjusted, the amount, and I could find it in my dashboard. 
But....surprise...I couldn't. 
Nor did they pay me out for those trips on my pay. 
The reason? It was adjusted after the pay period so it would be on next pay. 
But nowhere does it show that I'm owed for those trips.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

joeyoey said:


> My first night driving I was super nervous & missed an exit. I had to take the next one & come back around & it probably added 4-5 miles & 5 minutes to the trip. I apologized to the driver & he seemed ok with it. I woke up the next morning to an email from Uber saying the passenger had contacted them because I didn't take the most "efficient" route & they adjusted about $4 off of the fair. At first I was upset but then I realized if this jackass needed the $4 bad enough to go out of his way to contact Uber (like the trip wasn't cheap enough to begin with), I wasn't going to worry about it.


I would have ended the trip early to compensate,or would have contacted uber myself.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

Agent99: I have a Samsung Galaxy J3. (new for 2016)


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I've done nearly 1,000 trips and have never noticed any unusual adjustment of a fare.


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

Retired Senior said:


> Agent99: I have a Samsung Galaxy J3. (new for 2016)


Hold down the home key and the volume up button at the same time to take a screenshot. Some Samsung phones have the ability to swipe the side of your hand across the screen to take a screenshot as well.


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## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

Retired Senior said:


> My last Uber drive on Tuesday Nov 15... I picked the woman up at her home and drove her to the local high school. We had a nice chat along the way. I ended the ride and rated the passenger like always but the app said it was still processing the payment as late as today. So I contacted Uber and gave the specifics and they just got back to me claiming that their records show that the ride was cancelled. Uh, NO!


Put aside for a moment that they told you the ride had been canceled. Can you go back and look at your rides for November 15. What does it say in the app for this trip?


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

Agent99 said:


> Put aside for a moment that they told you the ride had been canceled. Can you go back and look at your rides for November 15. What does it say in the app for this trip?


That's the damnable thing! It shows NOTHING... like I imagined the entire trip!

At this point I think I'd be better off with Maxwell Smart's shoe-phone!


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

Retired Senior said:


> That's the damnable thing! It shows NOTHING... like I imagined the entire trip!
> 
> At this point I think I'd be better off with Maxwell Smart's shoe-phone!


Go to Account > Help > Trip and Fare Review

Sometimes even when the ride doesn't show anywhere else it is there. If it is not, I hope you remember the start and end point. Either way don't back down until you get paid for that trip even if it was a min fare trip. This is out of principle more than anything. You should be paid for all work you complete regardless.


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## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

Retired Senior said:


> That's the damnable thing! It shows NOTHING... like I imagined the entire trip!
> 
> At this point I think I'd be better off with Maxwell Smart's shoe-phone!


In your trip log it should say "canceled by rider" or "canceled". This is the first time I have heard of neither showing as if no ride request was ever received in the first place.

I'm sorry about the hassle. This sort of thing is best handled in person at an Uber driver service center, if there is one that is close to you. Also, in the future, I would take screenshots of any questionable situations, anything you want to refer to in the future to support your memory of events.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

Agent99 said:


> In your trip log it should say "canceled by rider" or "canceled". This is the first time I have heard of neither showing as if no ride request was ever received in the first place.
> 
> I'm sorry about the hassle. This sort of thing is best handled in person at an Uber driver service center, if there is one that is close to you. Also, in the future, I would take screenshots of any questionable situations, anything you want to refer to in the future to support your memory of events.


Thank You. There are Uber meetings in West Haven, about a 20 minute drive from me. I will write down my list of issues (some of which may well be due to my own ignorance) and attempt to deal with them there.


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