# Narcan In The Backseat? Lyft And Uber Drivers Could Help Fight The Drug Epidemic With One Simple Too



## SLuz (Oct 20, 2016)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lyft-uber-narcan-naloxone-overdose_us_59970b52e4b033e0fbdec36b
*Narcan In The Backseat? Lyft And Uber Drivers Could Help Fight The Drug Epidemic With One Simple Tool*
*Most drivers aren't prepared for this situation, but they're in a unique position to save a life.*
Huffington Post 08/18/2017

[Excerpt]

The people who are most likely to be affected by heroin are aged 18-25. That's the same group that tends to use Uber and Lyft to get around, especially on weekends. The petition says, "Although many people choose to call an Uber or Lyft after a long night of partying, the rides can also become ambulances for people who are intoxicated to the point of incapacitation or death. Instead of being the designated driver, the driver might end up with a sick or severely intoxicated passenger in their backseat."

Most drivers aren't prepared for this situation, but they're in a unique position to save a life. Overdoses can kill: they cause unconsciousness, vomiting, and even cardiac arrest. Yet, a single dose of Narcan can neutralize the effects of the opioid drug and put the person into withdrawal. A driver who knows First Aid or CPR might be able to help a passenger who's hurt or in shock, but without Narcan, there is no way to assist someone who's overdosing.

"A Narcan kit with two doses of the medication costs $75 over the counter: that's _pennies_ for companies that draw over $20 billion in gross revenue annually," says Ryan.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

*Why interfere with natural selection? *If someone wants to use drugs which might kill them...get the Hell out of their way.

I've helped administer Narcan on rescue trucks, and I can tell you it is *nothing for Uber drivers *to be involved in. Or police officers.

In theory, it's easy. In the real world...not. Nobody with current medical licensing below paramedic should be using naloxone.


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## Nick781 (Dec 7, 2014)

I carry narcan and would gladly use it for someones brother, sister, mother, father... that person means ALOT in this world to someone else. Put yourself in their shoes. We all go through rough times and addicts struggle with mental health issues which make it even harder to recover.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Nick781 said:


> I carry narcan and would gladly use it for someones brother, sister, mother, father... that person means ALOT in this world to someone else. Put yourself in their shoes. We all go through rough times and addicts struggle with mental health issues which make it even harder to recover.


I honestly respect your compassion and good intentions -- I really do. But you are taking on enormous risk.

Be smart...just call 911. They'll be there in a matter of minutes.


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## westsidebum (Feb 7, 2015)

I carry condomes and lube just in case my pax are not satisfied with raping me through uber


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

JimKE said:


> I honestly respect your compassion and good intentions -- I really do. But you are taking on enormous risk.
> 
> Be smart...just call 911. They'll be there in a matter of minutes.


O.O Your ambulance and cops come in a matter og minutes? What swanky town do you love in?


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## G Trip (Jun 20, 2017)

FTS


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

empresstabitha said:


> O.O Your ambulance and cops come in a matter og minutes? What swanky town do you love in?


Miami.

Response times to any true emergency call anywhere in South Florida (Palm Beach, Broward, Miami-Dade counties) is generally less than 5 minutes for police and <10 minutes for Fire Rescue. Any rescue unit, and almost all fire suppression units will carry at least two (usually 3) paramedics. In Miami-Dade FR, all officers have to be paramedics, so there is a paramedic in charge of every vehicle and almost all of the suppression units have full ALS equipment.

Anything with an unconscious patient is obviously an emergency call, and would receive an appropriate response.

Some of the police agencies carry Narcan...which I personally think is a mistake that will bite them in the butt at some point.


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## Alison Chains (Aug 18, 2017)

Sounds fine. Indiana statute does not include TNC drivers in the liability-shielded ranks of those permitted to carry and dispense naloxone.

Next!


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Nick781 said:


> I carry narcan and would gladly use it for someones brother, sister, mother, father... that person means ALOT in this world to someone else. Put yourself in their shoes. We all go through rough times and addicts struggle with mental health issues which make it even harder to recover.


Where can one acquire narcan?



JimKE said:


> Be smart...just call 911.


For some reason I can see that ending badly in a number of ways.

Possibility 1: You call the police, heroin addict guy's friend goes nuts and murders you.

Possibility 2: You call the police. They get there and find heroin in your car charging you with drug possession. Uber fires you. The police use civil asset forfeiture on your car. You face the possibility of prison time.

Possibility 3: Pax gives you 1 star for getting him arrested and files a false complaint that you were impaired. Because 2 other pax filed false complaints about you the last 2 times you called the cops on your pax, Uber fires you, since all they require is 3 unverified complaints to fire a driver.

Possibility 4: You call the police. The police don't get there in time. The pax dies in your backseat.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Theoretically Narcan is a safe/quick way to bring someone out of an opiod OD

However i'm not confident i could correctly diagnose an opiod overdose.

What happens if i stick a guy having an epileptic seizure with narcan dose up the nose? 

How pissed is my passenger going to be if she's just enjoying her high and I squirt Narcan up her nose, reverse her high, and force her into immediate withdrawal.

This and other questions brought to you by someone who is..


NOT AN AMBULANCE DRIVER!


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

How about no. They can OD on the sidewalk. 

Maybe if entitled junkies tipped their drivers they wouldn't have bought enough hard drugs to OD.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Another thing to consider about using Narcan is whether you are covered by your state's Good Samaritan law...if your state is one of the 38 states that do have one.

In Florida, you definitely would NOT be covered for several reasons:

First and foremost, you are transporting the rider for money and that is a total deal-breaker for Good Samaritan in Florida (and most states with similar laws)
You're untrained (hopefully)
If you are trained and licensed, you're going to lose that license for working outside your scope of practice and outside of medical control.



Trafficat said:


> Possibility 4: You call the police. The police don't get there in time. The pax dies in your backseat.


How about this one?

You administer Narcan, and the junkie dies in your back seat.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

This is absolutely another ridiculous uber thing. The company can go jump off a cliff


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Buckiemohawk said:


> This is absolutely another ridiculous uber thing. The company can go jump off a cliff


It's certainly not Uber's idea, nor Lyft's.

It's the brainfart of a couple of self-appointed, publicity-seeking "harm avoidance advocates" in LA. Their goal is to absolve the drug addicts of any responsibility for their own mess by making it everybody's job to save them...yawn...


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> Where can one acquire narcan?
> 
> For some reason I can see that ending badly in a number of ways.
> 
> ...


You are correct.

I have worked in the medical field for almost a decade and have administered the nasel spray version which is fairly easy though it usually requires more than one dose. It is not always easy to know if the person is overdosed or suffering another medical emergency.

I can confirm that you better hope the police have arrived by the time you have administered the Narcan because most of the time the addict will go into instant withdrawal and will be MAD as hell. They will deny that they needed it and will really be pissed when they find out police and medics are on the way especially if they are "holdin." I know this is not something most people will be prepared to deal with and other posters are correct about the liability issues that can follow. This will be a interesting topic. I would rather help a overdose patient on the side of the road than a paying rider in my own vehicle that is for sure.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> Where can one acquire narcan?


never tried to buy it personally but in Florida I believe it has been over the counter, but need to show ID or possibly not, since I can see a lot of junkies just not having ID lol

You often also hear that people hand them out to addicts a lot down here



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Theoretically Narcan is a safe/quick way to bring someone out of an opiod OD
> 
> However i'm not confident i could correctly diagnose an opiod overdose.
> 
> ...


Not sure if you can stick a guy when administering Intranasal narcan lol, regardless they made it pretty idiot proof with the Intranasal spray. Just shoot into each nostril. From what I heard, I have never heard of anyone overdosing on narcan or dying from it, it would require probably more than what is available on the truck. Also if you are going through several boxes of narcan, they are probably dead anyway or its not heroin and possibly cut with something else.

And if she is enjoying her high, she does not need narcan, it is only for someone who is OD usually unconscious low bp, breathing very slowly, or almost not at all. Possibly bluish skin, fingernails etc and usually the dead givaway is pinpoint pupils.

Either way if you are not the best thing to do is to pull over in a well visable area with landmarks and call 911, and be next to the patient so the dispatcher can talk and guide you.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

MoreTips said:


> I can confirm that you better hope the police have arrived by the time you have administered the Narcan because most of the time the addict will go into instant withdrawal and will be MAD as hell..


Yep...be prepared for a bumpy ride!


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

At those rates, Narcan isn't available.

They make the Eats drivers buy their own bags, and every driver provide their own maintaince, insurance , and fuel and this guy who started this petition thinks they will train drivers on how to use Narcan???

That would imply they're an actual company and not a ponzy operating from investor's $$$


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## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

The new super synthetic opiates are making narcan impotent.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> The new super synthetic opiates are making narcan impotent.


synthetic in general is causing problems, the main problem still is the stuff from mexico, but addicts are cutting it with other stronger opiates like fentanyl or other categories like Benzodiazapines, another respiratory depressant


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Couple years ago I picked up to smacked out dudes in Anaheim. They got in and got out later under their own volition. UberDrunks are another thing...



2Cents said:


> At those rates, Narcan isn't available.
> 
> They make the Eats drivers buy their own bags, and every driver provide their own maintaince, insurance , and fuel and this guy who started this petition thinks they will train drivers on how to use Narcan???
> 
> That would imply they're an actual company and not a ponzy operating from investor's $$$


Maybe this 'petition starter' works with the company the produces and sells Narcan


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

SLuz said:


> More solutions w/out driver consent. (Don't worry this is not a pay cut).
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lyft-uber-narcan-naloxone-overdose_us_59970b52e4b033e0fbdec36b
> Excerpt-
> ...


UBER SHOULD SUPPLY ALL DRIVERS WITH NARCAN. !
Saw one convulsing in the street at a concert venue with club security trying to help. Dont think they had the right tools.
Think they would tear up my traffic cam pictures if i had to rush one to the hospital ?
Or can we use those rapid blink lights to turn the traffic lights green legally?



Kodyhead said:


> never tried to buy it personally but in Florida I believe it has been over the counter, but need to show ID or possibly not, since I can see a lot of junkies just not having ID lol
> 
> You often also hear that people hand them out to addicts a lot down here
> 
> ...


Cyanosis as determined by capillary refill test to fingernails.

They shoot up at red lights and stop signs and fall asleep in my city.
Im not getting out my car with a passenger to check on them.



SLuz said:


> More solutions w/out driver consent. (Don't worry this is not a pay cut).
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lyft-uber-narcan-naloxone-overdose_us_59970b52e4b033e0fbdec36b
> Excerpt-
> ...


I did a short piece on Narcan here in U.P. over a year ago along with pictures and instructional diagrams.

The idea was not well recieved.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Cyanosis as determined by capillary refill test to fingernails.


Are you sure about that? I thought that was for something else.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

If fingertips are BLUE
it is doubtful any capillary refill would be present.
Extremities shut down first as oxygenated blood is diffused to the core.


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## Nick781 (Dec 7, 2014)

I got mine in Massachusetts through my insurance


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> synthetic in general is causing problems, the main problem still is the stuff from mexico, but addicts are cutting it with other stronger opiates like fentanyl or other categories like Benzodiazapines, another respiratory depressant


Yes. There was a case in the news in the last week or so where a 13 year-old boy died from heroin/fentanyl. I think it was here in South Florida.


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## corniilius (Jan 27, 2017)

If they mess up my ride, they are allowed to die in the backseat. I am nobody's babysitter.


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

JimKE said:


> *Why interfere with natural selection? *If someone wants to use drugs which might kill them...get the Hell out of their way.
> 
> I've helped administer Narcan on rescue trucks, and I can tell you it is *nothing for Uber drivers *to be involved in. Or police officers.
> 
> In theory, it's easy. In the real world...not. Nobody with current medical licensing below paramedic should be using naloxone.


Darwins theory must play out in order for humans to have a better quality of life



Nick781 said:


> I carry narcan and would gladly use it for someones brother, sister, mother, father... that person means ALOT in this world to someone else. Put yourself in their shoes. We all go through rough times and addicts struggle with mental health issues which make it even harder to recover.


I respect your well guided moral compass. Administering narcan puts you in a position of liability. I dont want to be an easy payday for some drug addicts mom


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## Veju (Apr 17, 2017)

Let's shoulder even more liability for $.80/mile. Where do I sign up?

They want us to become first-responders for $.09/minute. Hey dude, want me to call you an ambulance?


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## Nick781 (Dec 7, 2014)

Trafficat said:


> Where can one acquire narcan?
> 
> For some reason I can see that ending badly in a number of ways.
> 
> ...


I got mine at CVS (or your local pharmacy store). But every state is different. I live in Mass where you don't need a prescription.


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## DirkDeadeye (Jul 28, 2017)

No.

As a former pill junkie (well, my back is ****ed up and I needed an escape, just had to start taking anti-depressants and supplement my T levels..i'm good now) I am sympathetic, I know it's a struggle. I want to help, but I am not administering a drug beyond OTC to someone under duress, or otherwise. I'll call 911, I'll do what the operator says, but I am not an EMT/Uber Driver let alone a Paramedic. You want me to give someone narcan? You train me, and you compensate me, for every ride going forward..otherwise you can go eat a bag of dicks.

Also, "Just as every airport, clinic, and library must have an AED available to help someone in cardiac arrest, Narcan needs to be available everywhere, too."

You need to be trained to use an AED. It's not the same thing. Well, I certainly HOPE some random idiot isn't hitting me, or anyone else with a defibrillator without training. This guy is nuts.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

http://www.cprcertificationonlinehq.com/naloxone-drug/

Im not a medical professional, no way id administer a drug to anyone.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> http://www.cprcertificationonlinehq.com/naloxone-drug/
> 
> Im not a medical professional, no way id administer a drug to anyone.


Excellent article, Steve!

There were several things in the article that people like Kodyhead understand very well (he's a paramedic), but others skim over because they don't know the terminology.

_"Make sure that help is present or near by. Patient's, primarily chronic heroin or OPR users, *can become very combative and violent* when woken from an opiate induced high." _This is the "bumpy ride" I mentioned above. Things can get really ugly in a hurry.
You should also read the information about what happens with *improper administration of naloxone. *Improper administration can create life-threatening problems for the person you are trying to help.
So what should an unlicensed person with good intentions do if someone goes unconscious in the back of their Uber?

It's as simple as A-B-C -- *A*irway, *B*reathing, *C*irculation. Check to see if they are breathing. If they are not breathing, nothing about their drug problems makes any difference -- they are going to die if the breathing problem is not addressed.

Do you want to give mouth-to-mouth to a drug addict? Me neither. So what can the untrained person do?

Very simple -- Hands Only CPR.

If the person is not breathing -- lie them flat on their back on the floor, place one hand on top of the other on the middle of the patient's sternum (breastbone) and press hard and fast. Depress the sternum 2 inches of so with each thrust and allow it to come back to it's original position. Do that 100 times per minute (to the beat of "Stayin Alive) and keep going until either Rescue gets there, you are relieved by another rescuer, or you collapse from exhaustion.

If the patient complains, stop CPR -- if they're talking, they're breathing!

It they ARE breathing, but are unresponsive -- call 9-1-1, and get their problem off *your* shoulders.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

G Trip said:


> FTS


?


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## corniilius (Jan 27, 2017)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> ?


 Fornicate That Excrement


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

corniilius said:


> Fornicate That Excrement


ha! 
(not sure if that violates the site's policy on circumventing the language filter or not - but it is funny!)


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## DirkDeadeye (Jul 28, 2017)

corniilius said:


> Fornicate That Excrement


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## Ezridax (Aug 3, 2017)

Nick781 said:


> I carry narcan and would gladly use it for someones brother, sister, mother, father... that person means ALOT in this world to someone else. Put yourself in their shoes. We all go through rough times and addicts struggle with mental health issues which make it even harder to recover.


Amen. I honestly didn't even know you could buy Narcan OTC. I would gladly carry some as well.



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> How pissed is my passenger going to be if she's just enjoying her high and I squirt Narcan up her nose, reverse her high, and force her into immediate withdrawal.
> !


Probably very. That's why as paramedics we are told to "titrate to effect." And bring them out enough to restore breathing but not fully rouse them. Not sure that is possible with intranasal administration.


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

JimKE said:


> Miami.
> 
> Response times to any true emergency call anywhere in South Florida (Palm Beach, Broward, Miami-Dade counties) is generally less than 5 minutes for police and <10 minutes for Fire Rescue. Any rescue unit, and almost all fire suppression units will carry at least two (usually 3) paramedics. In Miami-Dade FR, all officers have to be paramedics, so there is a paramedic in charge of every vehicle and almost all of the suppression units have full ALS equipment.
> 
> ...


Good luck with that in SF. The cops will probably get stuck in traffic as some idiot doesn't know how to get over. Just last weekend I saw an ambulance blocked for several minutes by a dumb driver who was too confused to move. The streets were full, all other cars got over, and this fool stayed in the middle of the street. The ambulance couldn't make it through until this idiot moved.



JimKE said:


> Excellent article, Steve!
> 
> There were several things in the article that people like Kodyhead understand very well (he's a paramedic), but others skim over because they don't know the terminology.
> 
> ...


I was going to read that but then I got bored at the pharyngeal adjunct part. O.O pics please



JimKE said:


> *Why interfere with natural selection? *If someone wants to use drugs which might kill them...get the Hell out of their way.
> 
> I've helped administer Narcan on rescue trucks, and I can tell you it is *nothing for Uber drivers *to be involved in. Or police officers.
> 
> In theory, it's easy. In the real world...not. Nobody with current medical licensing below paramedic should be using naloxone.


Honestly, I don't care that much about my fellow humans unless they're children(preteen mostly). Because at that age you're just like animals; innocent. You didn't destroy the world, everyone else did and you're just stuck with the consequences.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

DirkDeadeye said:


> Also, "Just as every airport, clinic, and library must have an AED available to help someone in cardiac arrest, Narcan needs to be available everywhere, too."
> 
> You need to be trained to use an AED. It's not the same thing. Well, I certainly HOPE some random idiot isn't hitting me, or anyone else with a defibrillator without training. This guy is nuts.


AEDs are actually pretty much idiot-proof. Narcan is not, even in trained hands.

An AED checks your heart rhythm first before building a charge to deliver a shock. There are only two rhythms that are shockable with an AED and if you don't have one of those, it will never power up, much less deliver a charge.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

Haha they must be having a laugh. If I start taking enough riders around I feel I need to deal with an overdose I will stop driving. Uber doesn't pay enough for us to deal with anything but generally polite passengers who are not dying from heroin overdoses in the back. I am happy to call 911 and that is as far as I am going.

Typical huffingtonpost silliness.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

After reading this... 

Even if i WAS trained in Narcan I think i would rather just call 911 and let the paramedics deal with it, or nominate the customer in for a darwin award rather than trying to administer it myself.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Ezridax said:


> That's why as paramedics we are told to "titrate to effect." And bring them out enough to restore breathing but not fully rouse them. Not sure that is possible with intranasal administration.


I don't think so.

I've never used the intranasal but from the article Steve posted above, it sounds like it's a pre-metered dose of .4 ml, which delivers .4 mg of naloxone. So I guess you could space the doses out over time, but you're still giving .4 mg with each dose. Nothing like titrating an IV.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> Possibility 4: You call the police. The police don't get there in time. The pax dies in your backseat.


More corpses in our backseat means more cleaning fees for our partners


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> More corpses in our backseat means more cleaning fees for our partners


Might be hard collecting a cleaning fee from a dead guy... but on the other hand, they won't easily be able to contest the charge.


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## UBERPROcolorado (Jul 16, 2017)

SLuz said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lyft-uber-narcan-naloxone-overdose_us_59970b52e4b033e0fbdec36b
> *Narcan In The Backseat? Lyft And Uber Drivers Could Help Fight The Drug Epidemic With One Simple Tool*
> *Most drivers aren't prepared for this situation, but they're in a unique position to save a life.*
> Huffington Post 08/18/2017
> ...


I asked daughter, who is an attorney licenced in the state of Colorado, about this. Here is her answer.....

Colorado has a "good samaritan law" and has for a long time. However, it has it's holes. You can still be sued and then must hire an attorney to represent you. The average hourly rate ranges from $175 to $300 per hour, in Colorado. If you prevail, you may be granted your attorney fees and costs. So now you have spent many thousands, many many hours of your own time and are now faced with the task of collecting the fees and costs from a junkie. Most likely the junkie has no wages to garnish, no bank accounts to attach and no property to seize.

I will stop and help a person change a tire, stop at a wreck and help the injured OBTAIN MEDICAL HELP, try to stop a mugging.....BUT this is too far and too risky.

I would strongly suggest if you think you have a possible OD in your car, get to the closest hospital, urgent care, fire station or medical facility. AND leave your app on to document what you did. Drive safe and try not to pick up junkies.


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## u-Boat (Jan 4, 2016)

Ah.... No. No animals, no smoking, no f**king, no fighting, no drinking, no eating and definitely NO NARCAN in my rig. I've already doubled as an ambulance with several uBer trips to and from the ER. I draw the line at uBer paramedic.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Every once in awhile I have a passenger that I really wish I could re-enact that scene in Pulp Fiction with - where John Travolta drives a syringe of adrenaline through Uma Thurman's ribs directly into her heart in order to resuscitate her from a drug overdose.





Except, I don't want to use a syringe -
and I don't want to resuscitate them.


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## GasHealthTimeCosts (Jul 24, 2017)

JimKE said:


> *Why interfere with natural selection? *If someone wants to use drugs which might kill them...get the Hell out of their way.
> 
> I've helped administer Narcan on rescue trucks, and I can tell you it is *nothing for Uber drivers *to be involved in. Or police officers.
> 
> In theory, it's easy. In the real world...not. Nobody with current medical licensing below paramedic should be using naloxone.


Natural selection is not something related to drugs or even really pertains to how society is now adays you genius. Are you promoting or careless about fellow humans dieing ? That's even more sick then the people taking heroin and drugs.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

JimKE said:


> It's certainly not Uber's idea, nor Lyft's.
> 
> It's the brainfart of a couple of self-appointed, publicity-seeking "harm avoidance advocates" in LA. Their goal is to absolve the drug addicts of any responsibility for their own mess by making it everybody's job to save them...yawn...


Well a lot of them are basically kids.
Had one O.D. smoking Heroine on next street from me.



Ezridax said:


> Amen. I honestly didn't even know you could buy Narcan OTC. I would gladly carry some as well.
> 
> Probably very. That's why as paramedics we are told to "titrate to effect." And bring them out enough to restore breathing but not fully rouse them. Not sure that is possible with intranasal administration.


Sometimes
It takes more than the 2 doses per a pack @$90.00-$120.00.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> After reading this...
> 
> Even if i WAS trained in Narcan I think i would rather just call 911 and let the paramedics deal with it, or nominate the customer in for a darwin award rather than trying to administer it myself.


Not saying you or anyone else is wrong, but I think many are talking about Intranasal narcan, which is like nasal spray, and very easy to use, and does not require any IV, many agencies are switching to it.

I assure you for the people who don't know anything about this, that I could teach you or anyone how to spray in a nose a lot easier than teaching you CPR lol


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

UBERPROcolorado said:


> Colorado has a "good samaritan law" and has for a long time. However, it has it's holes. You can still be sued and then must hire an attorney to represent you. The average hourly rate ranges from $175 to $300 per hour, in Colorado. If you prevail, you may be granted your attorney fees and costs. So now you have spent many thousands, many many hours of your own time and are now faced with the task of collecting the fees and costs from a junkie. Most likely the junkie has no wages to garnish, no bank accounts to attach and no property to seize.


Maybe it depends also on your assets.

I wouldn't pay a lawyer to defend me. I'd just go pro-se. So I'd be out hours of time if they sued me. If they won, I'd declare bankruptcy and I'd be about where I started as I also have very little in my bank and little property to seize. Probably less than $10K total assets.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> Not saying you or anyone else is wrong, but I think many are talking about Intranasal narcan, which is like nasal spray, and very easy to use, and does not require any IV, many agencies are switching to it.
> 
> I assure you for the people who don't know anything about this, that I could teach you or anyone how to spray in a nose a lot easier than teaching you CPR lol


Right Kody, the _procedure_ for administering the intranasal spray is simple -- especially if the patient is unconscious.

But did you read the article by Michael Barrow that Steve posted -- especially the part about *what can go wrong* with pre-metered intranasal doses? The nasal sprays are not something you can titrate like you would an IV -- it's 4 mg of naloxone per dose...no more, no less.

From the article:
_"Sounds easy enough, right? Be cautious and don't get overconfident. This is a time sensitive and dangerous procedure. Make sure that help is present or near by. Patient's, primarily chronic heroin or OPR users, can become *very combative and violent* when woken from an opiate induced high. Not only is there risk to the provider or being injured, but there are some risks to the patient as well. Patients that are woken up too quickly haven't had time to readjust from their hypoxia and still require oxygen. 
*
Until their hypoxia is corrected, they will remain combative and altered and the likelihood of them returning to their pre-naloxone state is high.

Secondly, rapid or improper naloxone administration can also result in copious vomiting and status seizures which leads for tricky airway management techniques and complicate the situation greatly*."_

So we do a simple nasal spray and we get either a violently combative patient, one in status epilepticus, or one who aspirates his own puke. What's a lowly Uber driver to do with THAT?

In Florida we would NOT be covered by Good Samaritan because we're being _paid to drive_ the patient, and that eliminates the "good faith" requirement of Florida's Good Samaritan Law. It's not the same situation as stopping at a traffic crash to help other people. (I don't know other states' laws, but I do know Florida's law.)

I'm not going there for a $2.47 minimum-fare X ride -- or any other ride.



Kodyhead said:


> I assure you for the people who don't know anything about this, that I could teach you or anyone how to spray in a nose a lot easier than teaching you CPR lol


Agree, much easier -- but there is one huge difference.

*You can't hurt anyone with* improper or unlucky *CPR* . You just don't help them. But you can definitely hurt someone (or get hurt yourself) by administering Narcan.


----------



## Tr4vis Ka1anick (Oct 2, 2016)

GasHealthTimeCosts said:


> That's even more sick then the people taking heroin and drugs.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Ezridax said:


> That's why as paramedics we are told to "titrate to effect." And bring them out enough to restore breathing but not fully rouse them. Not sure that is possible with intranasal administration.


The ones we use we don't have to use the whole thing. We were taught the same but with the heroin we got now, and depending on the scenario, I will just start with a whole dose, and then half doses at a time. We were also taught to just give it if there is time for any unknown toxicological situation, and there really isn't any harm giving narcan.

I also work in South florida, not sure but I would imagine we get some great heroin down here lol, sometimes the Narcan works, and then they nod off and go unresponsive again, because the heroin is still in the system, and the narcan wears off in like a min.



UBERPROcolorado said:


> I asked daughter, who is an attorney licenced in the state of Colorado, about this. Here is her answer.....
> 
> Colorado has a "good samaritan law" and has for a long time. However, it has it's holes. You can still be sued and then must hire an attorney to represent you. The average hourly rate ranges from $175 to $300 per hour, in Colorado. If you prevail, you may be granted your attorney fees and costs. So now you have spent many thousands, many many hours of your own time and are now faced with the task of collecting the fees and costs from a junkie. Most likely the junkie has no wages to garnish, no bank accounts to attach and no property to seize.
> 
> ...


That same lawyer will probably tell you not to staple papers as it may kill someone too lol. I got a several lawyers in the family, and they are difficult to talk to ,

I do agree the best thing for most is to just stop in a visable area and call 911.

*You can't hurt anyone with* improper or unlucky *CPR* . You just don't help them. But you can definitely hurt someone (or get hurt yourself) by administering Narcan.[/QUOTE]

I did not read the whole thing but I don't see much of a difference except the person receiving CPR is pulseless, already dead, and an OD, who has a pulse, may not be able to feel a pulse if the BP is too low, unresponsive, not breathing enough or at all to sustain life and will die shortly.

All medications have precautions, warnings, adverse reactions etc. But the narcan didn't kill the patient, the heroin did


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

JimKE said:


> Right Kody, the _procedure_ for administering the intranasal spray is simple -- especially if the patient is unconscious.
> 
> But did you read the article by Michael Barrow that Steve posted -- especially the part about *what can go wrong* with pre-metered intranasal doses? The nasal sprays are not something you can titrate like you would an IV -- it's 4 mg of naloxone per dose...no more, no less.
> 
> ...


You can actually hurt someome by doing CPR improperly.

"
*CPR* does have risks. Pressing on*someone's* chest can cause injuries. They may suffer a *sore* chest, broken ribs, or a collapsed lung. After *CPR*, people may need help breathing or require a stay in the hospital.
*Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR) - familydoctor.org"*


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

empresstabitha said:


> You can actually hurt someome by doing CPR improperly.
> 
> "
> *CPR* does have risks. Pressing on*someone's* chest can cause injuries. They may suffer a *sore* chest, broken ribs, or a collapsed lung. After *CPR*, people may need help breathing or require a stay in the hospital.
> *Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR) - familydoctor.org"*


You know the person receiving CPR is dead right? lol

The least of the worries is sore chest, and broken ribs which will heal on its own, and to be honest, if you don't hear the ribs crack after the first or second compression, you are not doing CPR correctly.

Also there are way more worse problems after being bought back to life somehow after cardiac arrest like the surgeries, being in a coma, possibly on a ventilator with a feeding tube, if you make it through that then rehab, since you probably have to learn how to walk again, and if you are lucky, you have no brain damage. If you are older, you may not be able to live by yourself, or have many things done for you as you can no longer be strong enough to be independent.

Even if you bring back someone with CPR, there is a very good chance they will die within the next few weeks anyway


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> You know the person receiving CPR is dead right? lol
> 
> The least of the worries is sore chest, and broken ribs which will heal on its own, and to be honest, if you don't hear the ribs crack after the first or second compression, you are not doing CPR correctly.
> 
> ...


And people still try to sue people after they saved their lives or a loved ones life.


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## Safe_Driver_4_U (Apr 2, 2017)

MoreTips said:


> You are correct.
> 
> I have worked in the medical field for almost a decade and have administered the nasel spray version which is fairly easy though it usually requires more than one dose. It is not always easy to know if the person is overdosed or suffering another medical emergency.
> 
> I can confirm that you better hope the police have arrived by the time you have administered the Narcan because most of the time the addict will go into instant withdrawal and will be MAD as hell. They will deny that they needed it and will really be pissed when they find out police and medics are on the way especially if they are "holdin." I know this is not something most people will be prepared to deal with and other posters are correct about the liability issues that can follow. This will be a interesting topic. I would rather help a overdose patient on the side of the road than a paying rider in my own vehicle that is for sure.


 all this for $3.00 sounds like a good deal to me.


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## emy (Aug 23, 2017)

westsidebum said:


> I carry condomes and lube just in case my pax are not satisfied with raping me through uber


On a roll


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

empresstabitha said:


> And people still try to sue people after they saved their lives or a loved ones life.


I assume you are still talking about CPR here

99.9999999999% of the time you will not get sued for performing CPR assuming there is no gross negligence.. Even if you perform CPR incorrectly, EMS would rather have improper inadequate CPR than no CPR at all.

This is actually a federal law so if we are talking CPR, please stop telling anyone they might get sued for performing CPR


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> I do agree the best thing for most is to just stop in a visable area and call 911.


Yep.



JimKE said:


> You can't hurt anyone with CPR. You just don't help them. But you can definitely hurt someone (or get hurt yourself) by administering Narcan.





Kodyhead said:


> I did not read the whole thing but I don't see much of a difference except the person receiving CPR is pulseless, already dead, and an OD, who has a pulse, may not be able to feel a pulse if the BP is too low, unresponsive, not breathing enough or at all to sustain life and will die shortly.
> 
> All medications have precautions, warnings, adverse reactions etc. But the narcan didn't kill the patient, the heroin did


Right, the whole clinically dead thing is why you can't hurt someone with CPR.

But...while it's true the OD patient may die anyway -- and it's also true that their drug use was what started the whole chain of events -- you CAN hurt them with Narcan. 

If they go status epilepticus and die, that was the Narcan, not the heroin or whatever. 
If they aspirate vomit and die, that was Narcan, not heroin. 
If they freak out and run out in front of a garbage truck (or kick your ass), that was the Narcan, not heroin.



empresstabitha said:


> '... After *CPR*, people may need help breathing or require a stay in the hospital.
> *Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR) - familydoctor.org"*


LMAO! Some doc went to school for 15 years to be able to share this little pearl of wisdom with us common folk!

"If your heart stops and you stop breathing, you *may* require a stay in the hospital!" You just can't make this stuff up.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

JimKE said:


> But...while it's true the OD patient may die anyway -- and it's also true that their drug use was what started the whole chain of events -- you CAN hurt them with Narcan.
> 
> If they go status epilepticus and die, that was the Narcan, not the heroin or whatever.
> If they aspirate vomit and die, that was Narcan, not heroin.
> ...


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> The risks of giving Narcan as far as adverse effects, causing seizures is being blown out of proportion, I am not a pharmacist or doctor, but I strongly believe that the vast majority in the industry consider it a very safe drug to administer in general. Through school and work, it has always been taught as almost a harmless drug to rule out opiates.


You may be right. I've only been present on about 6 cases where Narcan was used. In most cases, there was no response at all. In one case, the patient's breathing improved.

And in one case, the guy went nuts -- it took all four of us to subdue him and get restraints on. Kicked our asses.



> I would still never carry around Narcan for no reason though, it will probably expire anyway. This whole thing seems absurd


I agree. I've been carrying nitrolingual spray for years and only used it once outside the rescue truck. One bottle expired after almost two years so I traded it in for a new one. And I can't remember how many bottles of 81 mg aspirin I've replaced. Although...that one Pt and I were sure happy I had nitro when they needed it.

But it's a totally different ballgame for trained, experienced EMS responders (even mere EMTs like me) and somebody who only knows what they've read on some random Internet post. I'd hate to see untrained drivers put themselves in that risky position.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

JimKE said:


> I've been carrying nitrolingual spray for years and only used it once outside the rescue truck. One bottle expired after almost two years so I traded it in for a new one.


And there lies a problem. This stuff is pretty unaffordable for a driver to carry.

What happens after expiration? Is the dose still effective most likely? Does it become slightly less potent? Does it degrade into harmful chemicals?


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## RonRdRcr (Jul 5, 2017)

MoreTips said:


> You are correct.
> 
> I have worked in the medical field for almost a decade and have administered the nasel spray version which is fairly easy though it usually requires more than one dose. It is not always easy to know if the person is overdosed or suffering another medical emergency.
> 
> I can confirm that you better hope the police have arrived by the time you have administered the Narcan because most of the time the addict will go into instant withdrawal and will be MAD as hell. They will deny that they needed it and will really be pissed when they find out police and medics are on the way especially if they are "holdin." I know this is not something most people will be prepared to deal with and other posters are correct about the liability issues that can follow. This will be a interesting topic. I would rather help a overdose patient on the side of the road than a paying rider in my own vehicle that is for sure.


So, true!!!
I have been on so many overdoes calls where we give the patients narcan and when they come to they are very combative and pissed. They have no idea they were almost dead and don't want any help from anyone. Had one guy whose friend told me he was a heroin user, we gave him 4 doses before he finally came to. Was very adamant he hadn't taken anything, told him well the 4 doses of narcan say otherwise. Uber drivers do NOT need to be carrying narcan.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> And there lies the a problem. This stuff is pretty unaffordable for a driver to carry.
> 
> What happens after expiration? Is the dose still effective most likely? Does it become slightly less potent? Does it degrade into harmful chemicals?


from what I heard it depends on the drugs, it doesn't go bad like milk but loses potency. To be honest, for the most part, it is not recommended to take them but it is probably fine to take them.

Some drugs cannot be stored after opening as well. To be honest for the most part I think it is a combination of putting expiration dates on anything you eat, and the pharmaceutical companies trying to sell more drugs


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Ever give someone Narcan? Sure, they snap out of it - they com or out kicking & swinging! Just what I need.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> from what I heard it depends on the drugs, it doesn't go bad like milk but loses potency. To be honest, for the most part, it is not recommended to take them but it is probably fine to take them.
> 
> Some drugs cannot be stored after opening as well. To be honest for the most part I think it is a combination of putting expiration dates on anything you eat, and the pharmaceutical companies trying to sell more drugs


Right, although there is a big difference between what I would take myself and what I would give a patient.

And some drugs just have very short shelf lives. Nitroglycerin tablets, for example, are often worthless in a matter of weeks, especially if they've been removed from the bottle and placed in a cute little bracelet or necklace. That's why EMS responders carry oral sprays -- we know spray will work.


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## bedouin (Dec 22, 2015)

Highly doubt junkies would have the money, or if they did, would want to waste it on Lyft or uber. They have other priorities for their cash.


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> I assume you are still talking about CPR here
> 
> 99.9999999999% of the time you will not get sued for performing CPR assuming there is no gross negligence.. Even if you perform CPR incorrectly, EMS would rather have improper inadequate CPR than no CPR at all.
> 
> This is actually a federal law so if we are talking CPR, please stop telling anyone they might get sued for performing CPR


Of course most people won't sue and there are laws in olace. My original statement was just a correction on the other person. You can improperly oerfirm CPR and hurt somebody. That's why you should get training plain and simple. Or have an official on the line who can properly guide you on what to do.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

empresstabitha said:


> You can improperly oerfirm CPR and hurt somebody. That's why you should get training plain and simple. Or have an official on the line who can properly guide you on what to do.


The American Heart Association and The American Red Cross (the providers of CPR training for medical personnel) disagree with you -- as does probably every medical professional in the world. You simply can't hurt a *dead person*.

For that reason, The American Heart Association has invested heavily in recent years teaching "Hands-Only CPR." They learned that way too many people refused to give CPR because they were either afraid of contracting some disease by giving ventilations, or they were "untrained."

The "official on the line..." you mention (good advice, BTW) will be a 9-1-1 operator who has been trained in Hands-Only CPR...probably by the American Heart Association.

Or you can just go to *YouTube* and watch any number of 1-minute videos by the AHA on the subject. Anybody can learn it in one minute -- and you can do it without hurting the patient.


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## Uruber (Apr 18, 2016)

JimKE said:


> *Why interfere with natural selection? *If someone wants to use drugs which might kill them...get the Hell out of their way.
> 
> I've helped administer Narcan on rescue trucks, and I can tell you it is *nothing for Uber drivers *to be involved in. Or police officers.
> 
> In theory, it's easy. In the real world...not. Nobody with current medical licensing below paramedic should be using naloxone.


Exactly!! if you got your self an overdose and you are dying, call an ambulance because I will not be the one saving you, if you die in my car I will end the trip in the hospital after they remove your corpse from my vehicle. Sorry if it sounds too harsh, I just hate drugs.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

I'm already expected to be chauffeur, navigator, concierge, porter, and father confessor, and someone wants to add EMT/Paramedic to the list?

If I wanted to be in the lifesaving business, I'd have stayed in the Coast Guard.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

The thing about CPR Is...

Most states have good Samaritan laws that protect you from lawsuit for doing CPR (As long as your certified)

ALSO MORE GOOD NEWS..

The voodoo doctor scientists have stopped recommending rescue breathing and are transitioning to hands-only CPR for the general non medicine practicing public..

(i'm certified, i've done the class both ways since the early 90s) 


Hands only CPR is a LOT easier to do, and when someone has something coming out of their mouth, blood, gore, hepatitis, meth mouth, or some other such equally disgusting mouth malady, you know longer have to go to first base with them while your trying to save their life..

It makes it a LOT easier to get people willing to jump in and try to save someone.


It's also common knowledge that ribs WILL crack during CPR, and the good Samaritan law does cover this.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> The thing about CPR Is...
> 
> Most states have good Samaritan laws that protect you from lawsuit for doing CPR (As long as your certified)


Florida's Good Samaritan law doesn't _immunize_ you from lawsuit, but it does provide a defense that most courts accept, provided that you meet the following criteria:

That whatever medical aid you provide *does not exceed training that you have had* and is in line with *common practice*. You do *not* have to be _certified_ to use the GS defense. 
You have to be acting in "good faith," which Florida courts have ruled means unpaid and acting purely voluntarily. So...if you're a taxi driver or rideshare driver providing care for *your pax*...you are *NOT* covered. You're being paid = absolute deal-breaker.
Note to other readers: 38 states have Good Samaritan laws, but the laws vary a good bit from state to state. I'm discussing Florida's law with Mears because we both live and drive in Florida. Your law (if you have one) may be completely different.



> ALSO MORE GOOD NEWS..
> 
> The voodoo doctor scientists have stopped recommending rescue breathing and are transitioning to hands-only CPR for the general non medicine practicing public..
> 
> ...


Right...and medical professionals have not been doing mouth-to-mouth for years either. We use "pocket masks" and bag, or intubation and bag.



> It makes it a LOT easier to get people willing to jump in and try to save someone.


Exactly, and *anybody* can do it.


> It's also common knowledge that ribs WILL crack during CPR, and the good Samaritan law does cover this.


IF you hear a cracking sound, it's probably not a rib. It's probably the cartilage that connects the ribs to the sternum. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. The patient is dead; you can't possibly hurt them.


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## NoDay (Jul 25, 2017)

I've got to add my 2 cents to this. Why on earth would this be a good idea? Let alone the fact that Uber would never go for this. 
I've worked in an office at a call center for over 12 years. I know very little about medical needs. I would not likely be able to spot those affected by an OD.

It would be one thing to have some of this on hand for a family member or friend. If you had first hand experience with that person and know the signs of OD. I don't.

Here is a better idea. Petition Uber to partner with government programs, insurance who ever to arrange a free ride to the pax (driver still gets paid) to a local hospital or clinic for those who want to get sober. Of their own will - no hostages! I would be okay with taking a few of these pax who want help. Don't give me the guy who is ODing.



Trafficat said:


> Might be hard collecting a cleaning fee from a dead guy... but on the other hand, they won't easily be able to contest the charge.


this is bad, real bad. But I had to like it because it solicited a tiny laugh/chuckle.


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

JimKE said:


> The American Heart Association and The American Red Cross (the providers of CPR training for medical personnel) disagree with you -- as does probably every medical professional in the world. You simply can't hurt a *dead person*.
> 
> For that reason, The American Heart Association has invested heavily in recent years teaching "Hands-Only CPR." They learned that way too many people refused to give CPR because they were either afraid of contracting some disease by giving ventilations, or they were "untrained."
> 
> ...


Saying you simply can't hurt a dead person doesn't really help when you hear the cracking sound. Technically yes they're dead but if I'm performing CPR on a child and I hear a cracking sound it's still gonna worry me. Either way, I don't care if you perform CPR or not.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

empresstabitha said:


> Saying you simply can't hurt a dead person doesn't really help when you hear the cracking sound. Technically yes they're dead but if I'm performing CPR on a child and I hear a cracking sound it's still gonna worry me. Either way, I don't care if you perform CPR or not.


Again breaking and cracking ribs is expected. It feels awful and terrible the first few times. Take your first or palm and place it between your nipples, and imagine pressing down hard enough and deep enough, 1.5-2 inches to physically pump a dead heart at a rate of 100 times a minute, or to make it easier 2 per second. so blood can circulate and hopefully circulate any remaining oxygen around the body.

Don't you think 1.5 to 2 inches you expect to break something?

Again they patient is dead



NoDay said:


> I've got to add my 2 cents to this. Why on earth would this be a good idea? Let alone the fact that Uber would never go for this.
> I've worked in an office at a call center for over 12 years. I know very little about medical needs. I would not likely be able to spot those affected by an OD.
> 
> It would be one thing to have some of this on hand for a family member or friend. If you had first hand experience with that person and know the signs of OD. I don't.
> ...


I assure you if you saw an OD UP close you will at least know something is very wrong.

Also there is next big scandal to hit the south florida area after they shut down the pill mill and it's called sober houses and they are everywhere. From my experience these houses are doing nothing to help these people and will be a huge story soon



JimKE said:


> Florida's Good Samaritan law doesn't _immunize_ you from lawsuit, but it does provide a defense that most courts accept, provided that you meet the following criteria:
> 
> That whatever medical aid you provide *does not exceed training that you have had* and is in line with *common practice*. You do *not* have to be _certified_ to use the GS defense.
> You have to be acting in "good faith," which Florida courts have ruled means unpaid and acting purely voluntarily. So...if you're a taxi driver or rideshare driver providing care for *your pax*...you are *NOT* covered. You're being paid = absolute deal-breaker.
> ...


Again this all about what i hear, but they say that it changed to compressions only or focus more on it because there is enough oxygen to sufficiently supply the body enough for several minutes woth good cpr

Also they tell me that it isn't about getting oxygen into the body, it is more important to get rid of CO2, which builds up toxic levels to the body and also with proper equipment indicates you are performing good cpr.


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## RideShareJUNKIE (Jun 23, 2017)

empresstabitha said:


> Honestly, I don't care that much about my fellow humans unless they're children(preteen mostly). Because at that age you're just like animals; innocent. You didn't destroy the world, everyone else did and you're just stuck with the consequences.


This is why most feel more compassionate when they see an animal in distress over an accident than your fellow human. It makes sense, we are after all said to be intelligent life forms, although I question it everyday. Yet we sometimes forget how to navigate our intelligent minds to use common sense. My sympathy level to humans is far less than some, but also more than others.

Unfortunately my initial thought when humans make mistakes (especially on the road) is "you should know better" or "what did you think was going to happen?"

Regardless, I'm still one to try and help someone else out when possible. I just make sure the person is being honest in their need for help/assistance. I try to be reasonable , but not naive at the same time. It it was provided at no cost I would keep one around. I'm not worried about "what if" lawsuits. If we were so concerned with risk exposure you wouldn't be driving for these companies daily. I understand that some just don't want to get involved because of the potential headache of trying to help someone out in this day and age. We are no different than animals, it's just we were cursed by this thing called "ego".
We're. Lol


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

empresstabitha said:


> Saying you simply can't hurt a dead person doesn't really help when you hear the cracking sound. Technically yes they're dead but if I'm performing CPR on a child and I hear a cracking sound it's still gonna worry me. Either way, I don't care if you perform CPR or not.


Two things:

You're not going to break a rib on a child. Their bones are very flexible.
With an infant (<1 year), you use two fingers only on the middle of the sternum -- and obviously you only depress it enough to put pressure on the heart. With a child, you use one hand, not two, and only depress the sternum about 1-1 1/2 inches. Again, you won't break a rib on a child.
With an adult, if you hear a cracking sound you just have to understand that whatever you do for them can only help, and get over it.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

NoDay said:


> I've got to add my 2 cents to this. Why on earth would this be a good idea? Let alone the fact that Uber would never go for this.
> I've worked in an office at a call center for over 12 years. I know very little about medical needs. I would not likely be able to spot those affected by an OD.
> 
> It would be one thing to have some of this on hand for a family member or friend. If you had first hand experience with that person and know the signs of OD. I don't.
> ...


The author who petioned this has no idea who he is dealing with.
We should all send bottles of Narcan to his office and tell him to deal with it.


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## Blatherskite (Nov 30, 2016)

I always carry a dose of Narcan in the eventuality of saving any random junky. I also carry a small core of kryptonite just in case that j4ck4ss Superman turns up to cause more mayhem. My constant bic pen companion has come in handy on more than one occasion when I've had to spontaneously commute death row sentences.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

JimKE said:


> Florida's Good Samaritan law doesn't _immunize_ you from lawsuit, but it does provide a defense that most courts accept, provided that you meet the following criteria:
> 
> That whatever medical aid you provide *does not exceed training that you have had* and is in line with *common practice*. You do *not* have to be _certified_ to use the GS defense.
> You have to be acting in "good faith," which Florida courts have ruled means unpaid and acting purely voluntarily. So...if you're a taxi driver or rideshare driver providing care for *your pax*...you are *NOT* covered. You're being paid = absolute deal-breaker.
> ...


(2)(a) _*Any person*_, including those licensed to practice medicine, _*who gratuitously and in good faith renders emergency care*_ or treatment either in direct response to emergency situations related to and arising out of a public health emergency declared pursuant to s. 381.00315, a state of emergency which has been declared pursuant to s. 252.36 or *at the scene of an emergency outside of a hospital, doctor's office, or other place having proper medical equipment, *without objection of the injured victim or victims thereof, shall not be held liable for any civil damages as a result of such care or treatment or as a result of any act or failure to act in providing or arranging further medical treatment *where the person acts as an ordinary reasonably prudent person would have acted under the same or similar circumstances.*

It's my understanding that as long as your not a medical professional in a medical setting, good faith is pretty hard to violate.. '

In Florida... my understanding of it, the way it was explained to me by my crooked lawyer... And the way i understand it...

You can not CHARGE OR ACCEPT money for providing emergency first aid to someone.

You also have to ask before you provide any kind of first aid. (if they don't/can't respond consent is implied)

It can't be at a doctors officer/hospital.

For someone who is not a DR, RN, CNA, PA, NM, ANM, M.O.U.S.E...

As long as you don't charge money your just Bob the good Samaritan doing CPR on a non responsive person...


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> (2)(a) _*Any person*_, including those licensed to practice medicine, _*who gratuitously and in good faith renders emergency care*_ or treatment either in direct response to emergency situations related to and arising out of a public health emergency declared pursuant to s. 381.00315, a state of emergency which has been declared pursuant to s. 252.36 or *at the scene of an emergency outside of a hospital, doctor's office, or other place having proper medical equipment, *without objection of the injured victim or victims thereof, shall not be held liable for any civil damages as a result of such care or treatment or as a result of any act or failure to act in providing or arranging further medical treatment *where the person acts as an ordinary reasonably prudent person would have acted under the same or similar circumstances.*
> 
> It's my understanding that as long as your not a medical professional in a medical setting, good faith is pretty hard to violate.. '
> 
> ...


I am not a lawyer or doctor but as am EMT and paramedic, the first lesson you learn is about consent. An unresponsive person with a pulse or not, cannot give you consent so it is under implied consent that they are in need of medical attention and assumed that they would want help.

Also from what i understand, and not 100% sure but it can absolutely happen at a doctor's office. If an adult over 18 May be different in other states makes an appointment to get something checked, or walks into a hospital it is technically implied that you want help. I am guessing in the paperwork you are giving consent to medical attention and permission to share any information. If you are alert and oriented you can refuse medical attention and sign something I think called AMA which stands for AGAINST MEDICAL ADVICE or PATIENT REFUSAL FORM. Not sure if this is nation wide but in florida the doctor does have the power to keep you up to 72 hours against your will if the doctor feels you are harming yourself or others with a baker act.

My personal advice is if you come accross a situation where someone is on the ground or you see someone collapse, quickly ask if they are ok several times and louder if they don't respond. Try tapping their shoulder in case of hearing issues and I personally would check for a pulse and check breathing. Either way if you have breathing and a pulse one or the other or none,

At that point you can CONFIRM you got something serious and best thing to do is call 911 at that point and they will ask you questions and may even guide you through CPR IF necessary. More importantly it is now recorded and documented what is happening.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> (2)(a) _*Any person*_, including those licensed to practice medicine, _*who gratuitously and in good faith renders emergency care*_ or treatment either in direct response to emergency situations related to and arising out of a public health emergency declared pursuant to s. 381.00315, a state of emergency which has been declared pursuant to s. 252.36 or *at the scene of an emergency outside of a hospital, doctor's office, or other place having proper medical equipment, *without objection of the injured victim or victims thereof, shall not be held liable for any civil damages as a result of such care or treatment or as a result of any act or failure to act in providing or arranging further medical treatment *where the person acts as an ordinary reasonably prudent person would have acted under the same or similar circumstances.*
> 
> It's my understanding that as long as your not a medical professional in a medical setting, good faith is pretty hard to violate.. '
> 
> ...


You've got several issues blended in together here as if they are the same. They are not.

First of all, _consent._ Yes you must have consent, either expressed or implied. With a few hair-splitting exceptions, persons under 18 cannot give consent or refuse treatment in Florida. To get expressed consent for a minor, you must talk to their parent or legal guardian.

Kody explained implied consent very well. If the person is unable to give consent, the law assumes that they would want you to help them. Obviously, if someone needs CPR, you have implied consent -- even if they refused treatment just before they coded on you.

_"Gratuitously and in good faith..."_ does not just mean you didn't charge for medical services. It means you did not receive any compensation from that patient _for anything_.

There is a mountain of case law in Florida where rescuers were involved in their regular occupation _which involved the patient_ and were not allowed to claim a Good Samaritan defense. Lots of examples, but I'll give you two to illustrate. A high school baseball coach treats one of his players -- NOT protected because he's being paid to coach that kid. Little League coach, doing the same thing, IS covered because he is not being paid. For drivers -- not covered for pax; covered if you stop at an accident scene to help other people.

_"Ordinary reasonably prudent person..."_ means just what it says. If you try to help someone, you will be held to the standard of what a normal untrained person would do in similar circumstances.

If you are certified in CPR, you will be held to that standard. So, if you do something that is against your training -- trying to remove a throat obstruction with your fingers, for example -- you would be liable.

If your certification has _expired_, you would probably not be held to the most current standard as long as your actions were reasonable.

*****
Getting back to the subject of this thread -- Narcan.

The reasonably prudent person standard would be pretty difficult for drivers, IMHO.

The question is whether it is "reasonable or prudent" for an untrained person to administer Narcan to a person with an _unknown medical condition_ that they have no training to assess, with no knowledge of possible detrimental effects of the medication, and no skills training to perform successfully.

For a driver to carry and use Narcan *based on news media stories, Internet discussion group postings, and/or YouTube videos* is just plain stupid, IMHO.

It doesn't take much thought to come up with a list of questions the dear-departed's lawyer might have for you on the witness stand. You'd look like a totally irresponsible moron on an ego trip by the time they were done with you.


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## G Trip (Jun 20, 2017)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> ?


FTS = Fvck That Sh*t = I feel this author's suggestion that Uber should provide Narcan to all of it's drivers is completely moronic on so many levels that it doesn't deserve further consideration or discussion.


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## hangarcat (Nov 2, 2014)

JimKE said:


> Miami.
> 
> Response times to any true emergency call anywhere in South Florida (Palm Beach, Broward, Miami-Dade counties) is generally less than 5 minutes for police and <10 minutes for Fire Rescue. Any rescue unit, and almost all fire suppression units will carry at least two (usually 3) paramedics. In Miami-Dade FR, all officers have to be paramedics, so there is a paramedic in charge of every vehicle and almost all of the suppression units have full ALS equipment.
> 
> ...


Later a lawyer will say you were liable/negligent. No training, etc.


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## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

SLuz said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lyft-uber-narcan-naloxone-overdose_us_59970b52e4b033e0fbdec36b
> *Narcan In The Backseat? Lyft And Uber Drivers Could Help Fight The Drug Epidemic With One Simple Tool*
> *Most drivers aren't prepared for this situation, but they're in a unique position to save a life.*
> Huffington Post 08/18/2017
> ...


Lawsuit!



getoutofmycar said:


> Just open the door and dump the junky on the curb........if they die IN the car.......the investigation will keep you offline for a long time


WYF you said!


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## metal_orion (May 14, 2015)

I have enough problems in my life that I don't need to worry about other people bad life choices.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Thia is america, injecting someone with something that puts them in opioid withdrawal can get you crucified in civil court....and convicted of practicing without a license in criminal court and put in jail


Huffington has historically been daft as all hell but this takes the cake


PS on a side note, the majority of things included under the layman's blamket term "drug epidemic" have little to NOTHING to do with opioid OD, and furthermore its very hard to see how resuscitation of opioid addicts can possibly fix the plague of drug addiction related issues in the country


PS why dont they advocate giving us ampules of dextroamphetamine and diazepam while they're at it? *COULD* help with a variety of other types of poisonings lol


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

It is not the responsibility of the driver to ever be responsible for choices made by passengers. Your only responsibility is driving in a safe manner. If you suspect a passenger has overdosed, pull over, call an ambulance, leave once the EMT arrive and report this situation to Uber and ask to be compensated for lost time. 

On another note, I wouldn't be surprised if Uber will start charging a $2 Narcan charge to passengers in which they will keep the whole amount. Uber claims the "booking fee" is partly to promote safety. That vague language gives them the green light to add whatever fees they want and keep the whole amount.


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## anonymous_for_now (Aug 25, 2017)

There is No way I would risk someone suing me by injecting them with something I don't know how to use. If anything if I saw a passenger in my car who doesn't respond to me I am calling the cops or trying to get them out of the car. They might have another medical issue. 

That would be one messed up asshole to get in someone's car for such low fares imposing that kind of shit on poor driver trying to watch the road while some disrespectful asshole is overdosing and most likely urinating or vomiting in the car.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

anonymous_for_now said:


> There is No way I would risk someone suing me by injecting them with something I don't know how to use.


Just to be clear, the delivery method being discussed here is a nasal spray, not an injection.

But the point made by you, me, and numerous others is that we have no business administering this *medication* to anyone. That's paramedic work, not Uber driver.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1033&context=php_facpubs
2014 URI paper: *Nonprescription Naloxone: Pros and Cons*
_Health professionals have noted fatalities may result, especially if used by untrained people, and perhaps naloxone use may increase avoidance of contacting EMS. Though due to naloxone's short-half life, it is critical to receive additional medical services after the antidote is administered as further"reversal" may be warranted. Another major obstacle has been that many states do not include naloxone as part "Good Samaritan" regulations protecting against legal implications when tending to persons in need of emergency aid._​


Trafficat said:


> ... Pax gives you 1 star for getting him arrested and files a false complaint that you were impaired. Because 2 other pax filed false complaints about you the last 2 times you called the cops on your pax, Uber fires you, since all they require is 3 unverified complaints to fire a driver...


Please provide some documentation or references for this. Is it 3 since you started with Uber, 3 a year, or some other time period?


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Maven said:


> http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1033&context=php_facpubs
> 2014 URI paper: *Nonprescription Naloxone: Pros and Cons*
> _Health professionals have noted fatalities may result, especially if used by untrained people, and perhaps naloxone use may increase avoidance of contacting EMS. Though due to naloxone's short-half life, it is critical to receive additional medical services after the antidote is administered as further"reversal" may be warranted. Another major obstacle has been that many states do not include naloxone as part "Good Samaritan" regulations protecting against legal implications when tending to persons in need of emergency aid._​
> Please provide some documentation or references for this. Is it 3 since you started with Uber, 3 a year, or some other time period?


That seems to be their policy when dealing with service animal complaints.


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## Buddywannarideagain (Jun 29, 2017)

I have a briefcase full of medicines. Pax can have whatever they want: Valium, uppers, downers, Viagri, Vicodin, even quaaludes. Treat every condition. Just go on webmd, and pop the needed pills. I do breast exams, vaginal checks, prostate exams. I do it all and drive at the same time. Uber is a one stop shop - a ride to the bar and a medical center all rolled into one 7 minute experience. What a country!


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Maven said:


> http://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1033&context=php_facpubs
> 2014 URI paper: *Nonprescription Naloxone: Pros and Cons*
> _Health professionals have noted fatalities may result, especially if used by untrained people, and perhaps naloxone use may increase avoidance of contacting EMS. Though due to naloxone's short-half life, it is critical to receive additional medical services after the antidote is administered as further"reversal" may be warranted. Another major obstacle has been that many states do not include naloxone as part "Good Samaritan" regulations protecting against legal implications when tending to persons in need of emergency aid._​
> Please provide some documentation or references for this. Is it 3 since you started with Uber, 3 a year, or some other time period?


I'm not totally sure, I got the idea from this thread:
https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber...-unconfirmed-zero-tolerance-complaint.187527/

I would guess 3 since you started with Uber.


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## RipCityWezay (May 12, 2017)

I'm relieving them of their drugs, dragging them out and canceling the ride. 

Uh I mean, yeah bro, I gotchu with narcan


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

G Trip said:


> FTS


No kidding, right? Up there with calling us for emergency room runs! lol



JimKE said:


> Miami.
> 
> Response times to any true emergency call anywhere in South Florida (Palm Beach, Broward, Miami-Dade counties) is generally less than 5 minutes for police and <10 minutes for Fire Rescue. Any rescue unit, and almost all fire suppression units will carry at least two (usually 3) paramedics. In Miami-Dade FR, all officers have to be paramedics, so there is a paramedic in charge of every vehicle and almost all of the suppression units have full ALS equipment.
> 
> ...


It begs the question of why would you even pick up an unconscious or nearly unconscious passenger in the first place. THAT would be the moment to call 911.



MoreTips said:


> You are correct.
> 
> I have worked in the medical field for almost a decade and have administered the nasel spray version which is fairly easy though it usually requires more than one dose. It is not always easy to know if the person is overdosed or suffering another medical emergency.
> 
> I can confirm that you better hope the police have arrived by the time you have administered the Narcan because most of the time the addict will go into instant withdrawal and will be MAD as hell. They will deny that they needed it and will really be pissed when they find out police and medics are on the way especially if they are "holdin." I know this is not something most people will be prepared to deal with and other posters are correct about the liability issues that can follow. This will be a interesting topic. I would rather help a overdose patient on the side of the road than a paying rider in my own vehicle that is for sure.


Where in the world are you people picking up passengers, anyway? You do know you can minimize the potential of picking up someone who is overdosing by being selective about where you troll for rides?


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

SLuz said:


> *Narcan In The Backseat? Lyft And Uber Drivers Could Help Fight The Drug Epidemic With One Simple Tool*
> *Most drivers aren't prepared for this situation, but they're in a unique position to save a life.*


I'd recommend that Uber drivers refuse trips from passengers who are loaded- whether they are loaded on booze or loaded on smack..

Tell the passenger that they are in no condition to ride in their car


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## Buddywannarideagain (Jun 29, 2017)

Can you imagine the lawsuit when a driver gives a diabetic Narcan in error based on an erroneous judgment call? Drivers are drivers, not first responders. Shame on the Huff Post.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Buddywannarideagain said:


> Can you imagine the lawsuit when a driver gives a diabetic Narcan in error based on an erroneous judgment call? Drivers are drivers, not first responders. Shame on the Huff Post.


Can you imagine the lawsuit when the driver gives a heroin OD patient Narcan and the loser dies anyway?

Patients do inappropriate stuff like that all the time. Sometimes they die in spite of everything we do FOR them; sometimes they survive in spite of everything we do TO them. It's not a matter of just doing the right thing and we all live happily ever after. That is a lesson you learn very early.


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

bedouin said:


> Highly doubt junkies would have the money, or if they did, would want to waste it on Lyft or uber. They have other priorities for their cash.


People who abuse opiates come in every economic class there is. Uber and Lyft are favorites for people running around town to re-up. People are shocked when they actually see the types of people who fall in to the category of a junkie.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Drivers are constantly transporting drug users, drug dealers, drunks, prostitutes, underage passengers, violent/unstable passengers, McSandwiches, Taco Tuesdays, unmarked packages of unknown content, and other potential problems. Some of these are more obvious than others. That's a normal part of "the gig".

If anything "unfortunately" happens both Uber and Lyft have guaranteed legal protection that they do not bear any responsibility. That rests *entirely *on the independent contractor (driver). Our only defense remains our discretion to refuse any trip. at any time, if anything at all about it makes us uncomfortable. The *only *exception is service animals.

Once a trip has started, if we feel a confrontation is better than continuing the trip then we may pull safely to the side, end the trip, refuse to move, and threaten to call the cops. Reporting all the above immediately after the situation is resolved and in a safe place is *strongly* recommended to get on the record, countering whatever BS story the passenger creates.


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## Jimron (Jan 28, 2016)

I hope we can claim a reimbursed for riders need of narcan, maybe using the cleaning fee option. I expect that we will need a picture of the rider next to the used up narcan. But seriousely, with no side effects for cases of non needed narcan dose, I think uber could boost its image by loaning out kits with AED's and narcan together, just make them available at the local uber office. They could even put a bag valve mask in the kit to be full legit.


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## Buddywannarideagain (Jun 29, 2017)

Anyone who has Narcan surely has an Epipen. It will never end. Aspirin? Tylenol? Vagisil? Actually, selling condoms and or pot, may be quite profitable on board the old rideshare train.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

MoreTips said:


> People who abuse opiates come in every economic class there is. Uber and Lyft are favorites for people running around town to re-up. People are shocked when they actually see the types of people who fall in to the category of a junkie.


Very true you will be surprised how many people do heroin, and the come in all colors sizes and social classes, shutting down the pill mills down here seems like a logical step and i agreed with it but could argue it is worse that it was before.

Bottom line is stop taking away opiates or make them harder to get, treat the addiction easier said than done though



Buddywannarideagain said:


> Anyone who has Narcan surely has an Epipen. It will never end. Aspirin? Tylenol? Vagisil? Actually, selling condoms and or pot, may be quite profitable on board the old rideshare train.


EPIPEN is a completely different conversation and situation and i am not sure what you mean by anyone who has Narcan has an EPIPEN please elaborate. As far as I know ems carries epinephrine down here and no one has epipens on their truck.

Things are different in every county or city and is up to the medical director but i am not sure but doubt they carry epipens for general use.

Epipens are prescribed to a specific person and is important to CONFIRM that it is indeed theirs and are trained to administer it cause you can easily inject it into yourself if you dont know what you are doing.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

SLuz said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lyft-uber-narcan-naloxone-overdose_us_59970b52e4b033e0fbdec36b
> *Narcan In The Backseat? Lyft And Uber Drivers Could Help Fight The Drug Epidemic With One Simple Tool*
> *Most drivers aren't prepared for this situation, but they're in a unique position to save a life.*
> Huffington Post 08/18/2017
> ...


Becuse it's so fun to deal with a pissed off addict whose high you just destroyed.

We're already an excuse for people to drink far more than they otherwise would. Now we're supposed to enable narcotics addiction too?


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## Abraxas79 (Feb 7, 2016)

Avoid this if at all possible. The potential liability is huge. As soon as you take the responsibility to treat someone your on the hook if something goes wrong. Unfortunately today the good Samaritan gets screwed. I would not ever want to have to deal with someone passed out drunk in my car let alone OD'ing. My first inclination would be to dump them out on the sidewalk, or dump them out in front of the emergency room at a hospital, but then they have a damn record of you accepting the trip. They get mugged, raped or shot whilst lying on the sidewalk, the trail will lead right back to Mr. or Mrs. UBER driver. Just touching someone can be grounds for a sexual assault these days, even though the physical contact might only be the result of trying to revive someone and save their life. 

No good deed goes unpunished these days. Remember this golden rule.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Abraxas79 said:


> Avoid this if at all possible. The potential liability is huge. As soon as you take the responsibility to treat someone your on the hook if something goes wrong. Unfortunately today the good Samaritan gets screwed. I would not ever want to have to deal with someone passed out drunk in my car let alone OD'ing. My first inclination would be to dump them out on the sidewalk, or dump them out in front of the emergency room at a hospital, but then they have a damn record of you accepting the trip. They get mugged, raped or shot whilst lying on the sidewalk, the trail will lead right back to Mr. or Mrs. UBER driver. Just touching someone can be grounds for a sexual assault these days, even though the physical contact might only be the result of trying to revive someone and save their life.
> 
> No good deed goes unpunished these days. Remember this golden rule.


Why are you driving strangers around in your car? lol You are worried about liability but if someone has a medical emergency in your car, your gut tells you to dump them out of the car...... you know that is bigger liability and a crime now


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> EPIPEN is a completely different conversation and situation and i am not sure what you mean by anyone who has Narcan has an EPIPEN please elaborate.


I assume both that comment and the AED comment were just joking. Hopefully! 


> As far as I know ems carries epinephrine down here and no one has epipens on their truck.
> 
> Things are different in every county or city and is up to the medical director but i am not sure but doubt they carry epipens for general use.


AFIK, you are right. Everybody carries regular epi -- sub-Q for allergic reactions and IV for cardiac arrest. It's much cheaper, more versatile, and has a much longer shelf life.



> Epipens are prescribed to a specific person and is important to CONFIRM that it is indeed theirs and are trained to administer it cause you can easily inject it into yourself if you dont know what you are doing.


Yep. For years I tried to fight that battle with the park service, but they never would go to sub-Q -- even after one of their EMT's administered an epipen backwards and drove the needle through his thumb and out the thumbnail.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

bedouin said:


> Highly doubt junkies would have the money, or if they did, would want to waste it on Lyft or uber. They have other priorities for their cash.


Ohhh junkies will take rides... all it takes is a credit card. Maybe they'll use a stolen credit card number.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Dammit Mazzacane said:


> Ohhh junkies will take rides... all it takes is a credit card. Maybe they'll use a stolen credit card number.


Or someone orders a ride for them because they are no longer welcome at their current location.


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## Abraxas79 (Feb 7, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> Why are you driving strangers around in your car? lol You are worried about liability but if someone has a medical emergency in your car, your gut tells you to dump them out of the car...... you know that is bigger liability and a crime now


No my gut and heart tells me to help but my head tells me think twice. I don't know what world you live, but it must be a Cinderella one with lollipops, balloons, and chocolate pudding for all.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Abraxas79 said:


> Avoid this if at all possible. The potential liability is huge. As soon as you take the responsibility to treat someone your on the hook if something goes wrong. Unfortunately today the good Samaritan gets screwed. I would not ever want to have to deal with someone passed out drunk in my car let alone OD'ing. My first inclination would be to dump them out on the sidewalk, or dump them out in front of the emergency room at a hospital, but then they have a damn record of you accepting the trip. They get mugged, raped or shot whilst lying on the sidewalk, the trail will lead right back to Mr. or Mrs. UBER driver. Just touching someone can be grounds for a sexual assault these days, even though the physical contact might only be the result of trying to revive someone and save their life.
> 
> No good deed goes unpunished these days. Remember this golden rule.


I agree with you, but there is a simple solution.

Stop right where you are and call 911 or whatever you use in Toronto. Give the problem to EMS/police, end the ride and Uber on. Gut and heart are good because you did the right thing -- by using your head.

Oh...and CALL UBER immediately and tell them what happened and what you did. Wouldn't be a bad idea to get the names and/or unit numbers of the responding police and/or rescue. If it's rescue, get the unit number and shift.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Abraxas79 said:


> No my gut and heart tells me to help but my head tells me think twice. I don't know what world you live, but it must be a Cinderella one with lollipops, balloons, and chocolate pudding for all.


I live in a world that people witness a medical emergency but are thinking i should not perform cpr because of being worried about sexual assault charges, or if someone stops breathing debates if they should throw them out of their car because they don't want to get sued, yet drives a car around which is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world and seems to be ok with that especially when another uber driver recently just got shot apparently for no reason, and another hacked with a machete


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## DirkDeadeye (Jul 28, 2017)

I was a pillhead, a clean cut white collar account manager..You would have never guessed I was also pounding oxy's. Opioid addicts are mostly regular people who hurt their back, or something, and got addicted to the pills. Also, long term use of the drug lessens pain tolerance, so if you have chronic pain, it actually makes it worse, and you get sucked in deeper.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

People help each other all the time who are in an emergency situation. Sure there are some who get sued simply because anyone can get sued for anything but it is not common at all. Hell there are many communities outside of the urban sitting where emergencies are responded to by volunteers.


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## DirkDeadeye (Jul 28, 2017)

Alright..






Knock yourselfs out. Feel free to search for more.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DirkDeadeye said:


> Alright..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Depends on where you are but a person can refuse treatment if they choose to why were they calling security and being confrontational? That seemed like assault to me.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> Depends on where you are but a person can refuse treatment if they choose to why were they calling security and being confrontational? That seemed like assault to me.


Technically if would be battery, but our protocol locally is anyone that is alert and oriented can refuse treatment. Usually asking simple questions like what year is ot, who the presodent is, do you know where you are for example. However there is a possibility that this guy may have been in custody already though you usually have a police officer nearby and usually restrained to the bed or it is also possible that the doctor has already taken away his power to refuse treatment and hold someone under psychiatric evaluation or if they think they might be a danger to themselves or others.

This video looks super old too


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

*Good Samaritan* Laws appear to be at or near the center of his discussion. *Good Samaritan* Laws offer legal protection to people who give reasonable assistance to those who are, or who they believe to be, injured, ill, in peril, or otherwise incapacitated. The protection is intended to reduce bystanders' hesitation to assist, for fear of being sued or prosecuted for unintentional injury or wrongful death.

Know the laws in every state that you drive for Uber. The laws vary from state-to-state, even though they all have the same basic motivations.
Checkout your state here. If faced with the very real prospect of someone dying in front of you when you might be able to prevent their death, may change your perspective radically. This is another human being, with a family and the potential for change, regardless of their past history.

If you do take action then call 9-1-1 immediately after so that they contact the police and dispatch EMS. Your next call is to Uber here, if the incident happened while online. Then document as much as possible, including date&time, what you did, why you did it, and contact information of those present, to protect yourself.


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## DirkDeadeye (Jul 28, 2017)

Kodyhead said:


> Technically if would be battery, but our protocol locally is anyone that is alert and oriented can refuse treatment. Usually asking simple questions like what year is ot, who the presodent is, do you know where you are for example. However there is a possibility that this guy may have been in custody already though you usually have a police officer nearby and usually restrained to the bed or it is also possible that the doctor has already taken away his power to refuse treatment and hold someone under psychiatric evaluation or if they think they might be a danger to themselves or others.
> 
> This video looks super old too


Yeah, just let him rampage through the ER.

I showed that video, because that's what happens when you snap someone high on junk out. They turn green and go nuts. My point was, if anyone wants to play a hero, this is what's gonna happen when you snap them out of it.

And there ain't any consent going on when they're OD. They're freakin' out cold. Hell, when I was nodding, a war could break out, and I couldn't care less.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

DirkDeadeye said:


> Yeah, just let him rampage through the ER.
> 
> I showed that video, because that's what happens when you snap someone high on junk out. They turn green and go nuts. My point was, if anyone wants to play a hero, this is what's gonna happen when you snap them out of it.
> 
> And there ain't any consent going on when they're OD. They're freakin' out cold. Hell, when I was nodding, a war could break out, and I couldn't care less.


Maybe I am just desensitized but that's nothing try searching youtube flakka, and enjoy lol


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## DirkDeadeye (Jul 28, 2017)

Kodyhead said:


> Maybe I am just desensitized but that's nothing try searching youtube flakka, and enjoy lol


I'm good.. I've seen enough of that personally.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

DirkDeadeye said:


> Yeah, just let him rampage through the ER.
> 
> I showed that video, because that's what happens when you snap someone high on junk out. They turn green and go nuts. My point was, if anyone wants to play a hero, this is what's gonna happen when you snap them out of it.
> 
> And there ain't any consent going on when they're OD. They're freakin' out cold. Hell, when I was nodding, a war could break out, and I couldn't care less.


There is implied consent to life saving care when someone is unconscious.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Maven said:


> *Good Samaritan* Laws appear to be at or near the center of his discussion. *Good Samaritan* Laws offer legal protection to people who give reasonable assistance to those who are, or who they believe to be, injured, ill, in peril, or otherwise incapacitated. The protection is intended to reduce bystanders' hesitation to assist, for fear of being sued or prosecuted for unintentional injury or wrongful death.
> 
> Know the laws in every state that you drive for Uber. The laws vary from state-to-state, even though they all have the same basic motivations.
> Checkout your state here. If faced with the very real prospect of someone dying in front of you when you might be able to prevent their death, may change your perspective radically. This is another human being, with a family and the potential for change, regardless of their past history.
> ...


LMAO!


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## Abraxas79 (Feb 7, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> I live in a world that people witness a medical emergency but are thinking i should not perform cpr because of being worried about sexual assault charges, or if someone stops breathing debates if they should throw them out of their car because they don't want to get sued, yet drives a car around which is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world and seems to be ok with that especially when another uber driver recently just got shot apparently for no reason, and another hacked with a machete


Its a terrible world is it not ? But that is the reality and not the fantasy you live in. People do get sued all the time for rendering help. Sometimes you can make a bad situation worst because unless you happen to be a physician that is only moonlighting at night as a UBER driver, deciding what assistance to give someone is not your place.

It is an exaggeration that I would throw someone out on the sidewalk who was dying. I was using hyperbole. I hope you are able to see that. It is to the hospital they would go where the trained professionals can do the job they are trained for.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Abraxas79 said:


> Its a terrible world is it not ? But that is the reality and not the fantasy you live in. People do get sued all the time for rendering help. Sometimes you can make a bad situation worst because unless you happen to be a physician that is only moonlighting at night as a UBER driver, deciding what assistance to give someone is not your place.
> 
> It is an exaggeration that I would throw someone out on the sidewalk who was dying. I was using hyperbole. I hope you are able to see that. It is to the hospital they would go where the trained professionals can do the job they are trained for.


All the time? You make this sound like this is a normal occurance or is this just an exageration to prove a point and I am supposed to see that too.

So is it the same thing as saying Uber drivers make money all the time, no need to tip.....

and to be clear, I am not recommending anyone to carry Narcan and administering it to people, but doing simple things like checking a pulse, or checking if someone is breathing, or performing CPR, there isn't any liability issues, or need to obtain consent to touch them. I would be surprised if these laws are different in Canada


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## Jimron (Jan 28, 2016)

Maybe uber drivers can help out with narcan since they are immune from lawsuits, due to having no money. Only money would come from Uber itself, and they have lawyers to defend itself and and the driver if convenient. 

I think it may be better to try to give narcan, then to dump a blue faced body at the curb, and cancel the ride.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Jimron said:


> Maybe uber drivers can help out with narcan since they are immune from lawsuits, due to having no money. Only money would come from Uber itself, and they have lawyers to defend itself and and the driver if convenient.
> 
> I think it may be better to try to give narcan, then to dump a blue faced body at the curb, and cancel the ride.


future earnings?


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Maven said:


> *Good Samaritan* Laws appear to be at or near the center of his discussion. *Good Samaritan* Laws offer legal protection to people who give reasonable assistance to those who are, or who they believe to be, injured, ill, in peril, or otherwise incapacitated. The protection is intended to reduce bystanders' hesitation to assist, for fear of being sued or prosecuted for unintentional injury or wrongful death.
> 
> Know the laws in every state that you drive for Uber. The laws vary from state-to-state, even though they all have the same basic motivations.
> Checkout your state here. If faced with the very real prospect of someone dying in front of you when you might be able to prevent their death, may change your perspective radically. This is another human being, with a family and the potential for change, regardless of their past history.
> ...


I had to laugh at this for several reasons.

First of all, it's a blinding flash of the obvious -- a regurgitation of what's been said several dozen times over the last 7 pages by numerous other posters.

But what is really laughable is the link provided to look up your state laws. From the silly title of the webpage, and from the stylish parchment paper background, you can tell that this is a really serious website!

And then, when I checked the Florida entry, I see that it was *last updated August 7, 2007* -- just over TEN YEARS AGO. There's nothing older than old news, and possibly nothing more risky than following 10 year-old legal advice.


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## Jimron (Jan 28, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> future earnings?


If there was a small settlement for future earnings, earnings would be shielded by max earnings of the uber driver minus minimum wage.

they cant take more then you earn without leaving something more then minimum wage, to live on. And since many drivers do not earn much over that, they have earnings that can never be taken by a judgment. Thus, immune from a lawsuit.

Even if there was a judgment, their home and one car could be shielded, and they should still be able to file for bankruptcy. But, it may take a year waiting period after the debt occurred.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

JimKE said:


> I had to laugh at this for several reasons.
> 
> First of all, it's a blinding flash of the obvious -- a regurgitation of what's been said several dozen times over the last 7 pages by numerous other posters.
> 
> ...


It's easy to criticize. What would be far more useful would be to provide more accurate information and up-to-date references. Can you do that?


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Maven said:


> It's easy to criticize. What would be far more useful would be to provide more accurate information and up-to-date references. Can you do that?


Sure. Read the thread.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

The more i learn about Narcan...

The more I realize that if i had to use it i would end up saving their life then putting two in their chest with my .45 for trying to take my head off..


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Free Narcan Training classes are now being offered all over the country. To find one near you, google "Free Narcan class 2017 <city-name>".
Some local governments are trying to address the main roadblock to more widespread availability, the high cost of the drug kits.


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

Why would I want to save a heroin addicts life?
They trying to kill themselves anyways


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Buddywannarideagain said:


> Anyone who has Narcan surely has an Epipen. It will never end. Aspirin? Tylenol? Vagisil? Actually, selling condoms and or pot, may be quite profitable on board the old rideshare train.


Wait! Do you mean there is an actual possibility of making profit doing this? lol



Kodyhead said:


> I live in a world that people witness a medical emergency but are thinking i should not perform cpr because of being worried about sexual assault charges, or if someone stops breathing debates if they should throw them out of their car because they don't want to get sued, yet drives a car around which is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world and seems to be ok with that especially when another uber driver recently just got shot apparently for no reason, and another hacked with a machete


We position ourselves and also cherry pick for that very reason.


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## Buddywannarideagain (Jun 29, 2017)

I may as well sell beer and liquor on board. Hell, pax love to booze it in the Uber car anyway. Shit. I could make some dough on that action.



Kodyhead said:


> Very true you will be surprised how many people do heroin, and the come in all colors sizes and social classes, shutting down the pill mills down here seems like a logical step and i agreed with it but could argue it is worse that it was before.
> 
> Bottom line is stop taking away opiates or make them harder to get, treat the addiction easier said than done though
> 
> ...


I'm saying if riders expect Narcan they'll expect other lifesaving drugs. Instead of dialing 911 folks will call an Uber - no matter what the emergency. We're not advanced life support.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Buddywannarideagain said:


> Instead of dialing 911 folks will call an Uber - no matter what the emergency. We're not advanced life support.


Nor are we basic life support...or first responder...or even basic first aid. We're drivers. We drive people from A to B.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

TBone said:


> Why would I want to save a heroin addicts life?
> They trying to kill themselves anyways


It is not always the heroin addict, it very well could be a person with cancer who has taken too much pain medications by mistake.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

JimKE said:


> *Why interfere with natural selection? *If someone wants to use drugs which might kill them...get the Hell out of their way.
> 
> I've helped administer Narcan on rescue trucks, and I can tell you it is *nothing for Uber drivers *to be involved in. Or police officers.
> 
> In theory, it's easy. In the real world...not. Nobody with current medical licensing below paramedic should be using naloxone.


god damn this times a million. why the **** do we need to be responsible for someone else's dumbass decisions? if I drink too much and die of alcohol poisoning, that's on me and nobody else but me.

everyone knows the risk of heroin abuse. you shoot it, you might die. accept the consequences of your actions.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Buddywannarideagain said:


> I may as well sell beer and liquor on board. Hell, pax love to booze it in the Uber car anyway. Shit. I could make some dough on that action.
> 
> I'm saying if riders expect Narcan they'll expect other lifesaving drugs. Instead of dialing 911 folks will call an Uber - no matter what the emergency. We're not advanced life support.


This begs the question why we, as Ride Share are expected to help those with wheelchairs load them into our cars. We're here to share a ride, not be an assistance driver. It's not as if there aren't government funded handy-ride buses, etc., as well as buses that are equipped to transport wheelchairs. I'm not a trained care assistance person, they have no right to expect us to do it, and I'd LOVE to know how they will address this with driverless cars.


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