# Track your rides at what you are actually paid versus the rate card



## DMCK (2 mo ago)

So, while we don't know exactly what the riders are paying, unless we ask, Lyft is screwing us all. Out of the people I have asked, Lyft is taking 55-75% of each fare.

I started tracking "actual" versus "rate card" (which are still bs rates). Took out the bonus/surge rate and tips from the total paid for each ride, because you can't get an accurate figure with those in there.

Out of 83 rides so far Lyft has shorted me $42. This includes what I made above the rate card rates. While not a huge amount averaged per ride, you know they are doing this to every driver, which amounts to a lot over the course of a day.

Started looking for a W2 job. I can't keep going giving 15 rides/day, making $150/day and spending $40 of that on gas. While Lyft is charging riders 3-4 times what we are receiving.


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

This should be stickied.
If you shared your spreadsheet template this _might_ get traction. Low pay sucks, getting ripped off on top of it though...

UPDATE: @DMCK's spreadsheet in both the current Excel (xlsx) and Excel 97 (xls) formats (provided by @DMCK)


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

DMCK said:


> So, while we don't know exactly what the riders are paying, unless we ask, Lyft is screwing us all. Out of the people I have asked, Lyft is taking 55-75% of each fare.
> 
> I started tracking "actual" versus "rate card" (which are still bs rates). Took out the bonus/surge rate and tips from the total paid for each ride, because you can't get an accurate figure with those in there.
> 
> ...


Nice chart.

If you're in a busier area and they're charging Prime Time for riders, you're getting gaped even more.


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## DMCK (2 mo ago)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> This should be stickied.
> If you shared your spreadsheet template this _might_ get traction. Low pay sucks, getting ripped off on top of it though...


I don't know how to share an excel file on here. I'd be happy to email it to you.


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## Wild Bill Yahoo (Jan 22, 2018)

DMCK said:


> So, while we don't know exactly what the riders are paying, unless we ask, Lyft is screwing us all. Out of the people I have asked, Lyft is taking 55-75% of each fare.
> 
> I started tracking "actual" versus "rate card" (which are still bs rates). Took out the bonus/surge rate and tips from the total paid for each ride, because you can't get an accurate figure with those in there.
> 
> ...


Rate cards have been eliminated with UFF... so what are you comparing it to? A historical rate card that doesn't exist anymore?


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## DMCK (2 mo ago)

Wild Bill Yahoo said:


> Rate cards have been eliminated with UFF... so what are you comparing it to? A historical rate card that doesn't exist anymore?


Actually the rate cards do still exist. They still use them in some instances. I've had several rides in the last 2 weeks that it has been used. And the one that I am referencing is the last one that is available for the Atlanta market, where I am located.


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## Wild Bill Yahoo (Jan 22, 2018)

DMCK said:


> Actually the rate cards do still exist. They still use them in some instances. I've had several rides in the last 2 weeks that it has been used. And the one that I am referencing is the last one that is available for the Atlanta market, where I am located.


Not according to Dara. 

Interview with Dara


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## DMCK (2 mo ago)

Wild Bill Yahoo said:


> Not according to Dara.
> 
> Interview with Dara


I do primarily Lyft, and am referencing Lyft's rate card


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Yes Lyft's Rate Card is still available. Even though they claim they are not used any more.
Is this even Legal ?

I made a Rate Calculator a while ago because even though drive mostly Inland Empire I do end up in Orange county.
LA and North OC county are higher than the IE and South of the 133 / Laguna Canyon are higher than North OC/LA. Even Palm Springs is an even higher rate.
I made it to plug in Miles and Minutes for a comparison of a trip.


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## DMCK (2 mo ago)

Got up to 91 rides tracked today. I am up to $61 that Lyft has shorted me over what the rate card says I should have been paid. Knowing they are doing this to every driver, that's a lot of money that they are stealing from us. Asked all my riders today how much they were charged, and Lyft kept over 60% total of the 8 rides. Far cry from the days when WE kept 80% of each fare.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

LOL, you didn't really think that Lyft was going to pay you the same or more, did you??


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## DMCK (2 mo ago)

Not at all. They are shady af. Come a long way since the 2013 when we actually made money and they didn't screw us at every corner.
However, to speak to your comment directly, they actually advertise that you should not see any change in your income. Which in and of itself is a load of bs, I don't remotely trust either platform. As long as we continue driving and don't raise a national fuss, they will continue screwing us.


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## kamelsf (Jul 10, 2015)

DMCK said:


> Not at all. They are shady af. Come a long way since the 2013 when we actually made money and they didn't screw us at every corner.
> However, to speak to your comment directly, they actually advertise that you should not see any change in your income. Which in and of itself is a load of bs, I don't remotely trust either platform. As long as we continue driving and don't raise a national fuss, they will continue screwing us.


The real people to blame are regulators. They are the ones making the law. Will be curious to know how much lyft and uber donate to those guys.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I have only done two rides for Lyft all week. One of those rides resulted in the passenger telling me they were being charged $96 for the ride. They ask how much I would be paid of that. I quickly did the math and told them, I'll be lucky to get $36. They were shocked. I dropped them off and end the ride. I'll be damned . My payout was $35.75. They kept 60 ****ing dollars!




Wild Bill Yahoo said:


> Rate cards have been eliminated with UFF... so what are you comparing it to? A historical rate card that doesn't exist anymore?


That's not true. Here, Lyft only has upfront pricing on basic lyft. So every other tier still operates on the old rate card


Wild Bill Yahoo said:


> Not according to Dara.
> 
> Interview with Dara


There are only two markets in my state that operate off up front pricingpricing. the rest of the entire state still functions on the "old" rate card



Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Yes Lyft's Rate Card is still available. Even though they claim they are not used any more.
> Is this even Legal ?


They absolutely still use it. Basic lyft is the only tier that operates on The Upfront Fare model here. Every other tier still operates off of the rate card


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## Wild Bill Yahoo (Jan 22, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> I have only done two rides for Lyft all week. One of those rides resulted in the passenger telling me they were being charged $96 for the ride. They ask how much I would be paid of that. I quickly did the math and told them, I'll be lucky to get $36. They were shocked. I dropped them off and end the ride. I'll be damned . My payout was $35.75. They kept 60 ****ing dollars!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since I only drive Uber X and Basic Lyft... I forget about the other platforms lol.


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## uber4eva (6 mo ago)

The math is ridiculous. I’m getting requests that once I factor in the mileage are coming out to around $8 an hour. That doesn’t even touch tax liability. Nor does that take into account miles that will be driven after the fact, either to drive back home or before receiving and accepting another ride. We are talking literally negative rates if you give one ride then go home.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

DMCK said:


> So, while we don't know exactly what the riders are paying, unless we ask, Lyft is screwing us all. Out of the people I have asked, Lyft is taking 55-75% of each fare.
> 
> I started tracking "actual" versus "rate card" (which are still bs rates). Took out the bonus/surge rate and tips from the total paid for each ride, because you can't get an accurate figure with those in there.
> 
> ...


In addition to setting the pay rates the govt needs to CAP the percentage of the gross revenue of each ride Uber and Lyft can grab. That's the only way to put a stop to this money-grabbing.


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## DMCK (2 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> In addition to setting the pay rates the govt needs to CAP the percentage of the gross revenue of each ride Uber and Lyft can grab. That's the only way to put a stop to this money-grabbing.


Until drivers start demanding change, it's never going to happen. In years past we tried to organize in Atlanta to protest, which happened with little success, because there were those that capitalized on the protest and continued driving hoping for surge. Unless and until we could get at least 80% of drivers to join in the fight, nothing is going to happen. It would need to be a centralized effort of everyone involved. Drivers don't go to their state and federal legislators to complain enough either. 

I have been driving on and off for almost 9 years. Started back full time a few months ago, hoping I could make the money I was a few years ago. It's definitely not like it was. As soon as I find a full time position, I'm done. This upfront fare BS has changed the game for the worse.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

DMCK said:


> Until drivers start demanding change, it's never going to happen. In years past we tried to organize in Atlanta to protest, which happened with little success, because there were those that capitalized on the protest and continued driving hoping for surge. Unless and until we could get at least 80% of drivers to join in the fight, nothing is going to happen. It would need to be a centralized effort of everyone involved. Drivers don't go to their state and federal legislators to complain enough either.
> 
> I have been driving on and off for almost 9 years. Started back full time a few months ago, hoping I could make the money I was a few years ago. It's definitely not like it was. As soon as I find a full time position, I'm done. This upfront fare BS has changed the game for the worse.


You're never going to get enough drivers to disrupt the company. The good news is you don't need a lot of drivers to strike. All you need is to get the attention of the media and the politicians.

A small strike in 2019 in CA was a catalyst for AB5.


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## uber4eva (6 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> You're never going to get enough drivers to disrupt the company. The good news is you don't need a lot of drivers to strike. All you need is to get the attention of the media and the politicians.
> 
> A small strike in 2019 in CA was a catalyst for *AB5*


 That’s why I won’t be participating in any of those stupid demonstrations. There will never be reform until we stop inviting 5 million new immigrants into the country every year who can’t do math and think because they make $2 a day back in Tegucigalpa that $7 for a 20 mile trip is lucrative. Lyft and Uber don’t need you because they have millions of indentured servants to do their dirty work for them and soon they won’t even need those guys. They will have driverless cars and pax will laugh while unemployed former Uber drivers who had their cars repossessed are ran over as pedestrians by the new autonomous fleet of cars taking them to their destination


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## DMCK (2 mo ago)

Nats121 said:


> You're never going to get enough drivers to disrupt the company. The good news is you don't need a lot of drivers to strike. All you need is to get the attention of the media and the politicians.
> 
> A small strike in 2019 in CA was a catalyst for AB5.


Yea, Georgia is a RED state. They are all for corporations, not as liberal as California. I'm drafting a letter to send to the Georgia legislature, the State and Federal Department of Labor, and the news media. Not that it will do any good, but at least I'm attempting to do something. A lot more than I can say for probably the majority of drivers. It's just sad that any change for the good will benefit those that could care less to enact for change.


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## theonearmedman (Oct 16, 2017)

Uber is poverty, lyft is welfare


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

@DMCK's spreadsheet template in both current *Excel (xlsx) and Excel 97* (xls) formats 
(provided by @DMCK)


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

New2This said:


> gaped


That is my favorite genre of adult cinema!


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## chuchu (Aug 12, 2017)

DMCK said:


> Yea, Georgia is a RED state. They are all for corporations, not as liberal as California. I'm drafting a letter to send to the Georgia legislature, the State and Federal Department of Labor, and the news media. Not that it will do any good, but at least I'm attempting to do something. A lot more than I can say for probably the majority of drivers. It's just sad that any change for the good will benefit those that could care less to enact for change.


Thank you for your courage! This is really serious issue!
Respect!


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## chuchu (Aug 12, 2017)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> @DMCK's spreadsheet template in both current *Excel (xlsx) and Excel 97* (xls) formats
> (provided by @DMCK)



Thank you for your time. Please educate our poor servants!


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

DMCK said:


> Yea, Georgia is a RED state. They are all for corporations, not as liberal as California. I'm drafting a letter to send to the Georgia legislature, the State and Federal Department of Labor, and the news media. Not that it will do any good, but at least I'm attempting to do something. A lot more than I can say for probably the majority of drivers. It's just sad that any change for the good will benefit those that could care less to enact for change.


Conservatives are no longer the party of the rich. Take a brief look at the net worth of all the Democrat reps and senators net worth.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

DMCK said:


> I'm drafting a letter to send to the Georgia legislature, the State and Federal Department of Labor, and the news media. Not that it will do any good, but at least I'm attempting to do something.


Right on ! I'd like to read and forward it here.

To bad there is so much negativity here. Well they can Wallow in it then. As that is a Stop and no one will get any where making excuses. Sure it will be read by there Staff and you will get a Canned reply by there staff. Now send a few Thousand and it may get some traction.


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## theonearmedman (Oct 16, 2017)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Right on ! I'd like to read and forward it here.
> 
> To bad there is so much negativity here. Well they can Wallow in it then. As that is a Stop and no one will get any where making excuses. Sure it will be read by there Staff and you will get a Canned reply by there staff. Now send a few Thousand and it may get some traction.


Georgia is a dump too lol. Atlanta is trash


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## Uberisfuninlv (Mar 22, 2017)

*Track your rides at what you are actually paid versus the rate card*

What’s the point of this? The rate card is irrelevant now as both Uber and Lyft will never go back to paying us this way. Fares will be true supply and demand based. If it’s not busy they will pay us low. When it’s busy fares will pay better. The key to beating this and be most profitable is to run multiple apps including food delivery so you have multiple options to choose from.


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## Shakur (Jan 8, 2017)

Scheduled rides with lyft are actually showing the decrease in earnings. I think the developers forgot to stop showing the old price when the list updates

ashland ave to westmont originally was 20-27. Then I go to refresh and it says 16-23 lol.


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## Shakur (Jan 8, 2017)

uber4eva said:


> The math is ridiculous. I’m getting requests that once I factor in the mileage are coming out to around $8 an hour. That doesn’t even touch tax liability. Nor does that take into account miles that will be driven after the fact, either to drive back home or before receiving and accepting another ride. We are talking literally negative rates if you give one ride then go home.


Which is whats happening because i look at these rides and either do 1 and get fast food or I just stay in and dont do it at all


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

uber4eva said:


> That’s why I won’t be participating in any of those stupid demonstrations. There will never be reform until we stop inviting 5 million new immigrants into the country every year who can’t do math and think because they make $2 a day back in Tegucigalpa that $7 for a 20 mile trip is lucrative. Lyft and Uber don’t need you because they have millions of indentured servants to do their dirty work for them and soon they won’t even need those guys. They will have driverless cars and pax will laugh while unemployed former Uber drivers who had their cars repossessed are ran over as pedestrians by the new autonomous fleet of cars taking them to their destination


No one has discussed the immigration problem more than I have on this website over the years. I've discussed it a zillion times and have repeatedly pointed out that perpetually high rates of Third World immigration has been Uber's ultimate weapon because it's always been a reliable source of fresh bodies to replace the 98% of drivers who quit every year.

Given the high immigration rates the ONLY hope drivers have for major reform is GOVT REGULATION.

When the govt implements regulations the gig companies must abide by those regulations REGARDLESS of immigration rates. 

Washington state passed new regulations in May that will take effect in January. Driver pay rates will be regulated by the state. An appeals board will be created for drivers to appeal wrongful terminations. Other benefits including paid sick leave will be part of the new laws.

The new pay rates for Washington State drivers will be $3.00 base fare/ $1.17 per mile/ $0.34 per minute

Seattle drivers will be paid $5.17 base fare/ $1.38 per mile/ $0.58 per minute

Seattle's per minute rate will be the highest in the US, even higher than NYC.


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

"...perpetually high rates of Third World immigration..." 
It's kind of like Lord of the Flies: Hoping the group that created the cause of the problems (immigration) will fix the outcome of the problems (labor imbalance) by using the same failed logic results in greater disaster.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> "...perpetually high rates of Third World immigration..."
> It's kind of like Lord of the Flies: Hoping the group that created the cause of the problems (immigration) will fix the outcome of the problems (labor imbalance) by using the same failed logic results in greater disaster.


The govt has played a major role in the drivers' plight with their immigration policies. But only the govt has the power to put a stop to the exploitation of drivers. The drivers can't do it themselves.

So yes, the entity (the govt) that helped cause the problems is the entity drivers will need to fix those problems. It's the only hope the drivers have.

I should add that the federal govt is the entity that helped cause the problems but most likely it will be the state govts that fix it.


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

Nats121 said:


> The govt has played a major role in the drivers' plight with their immigration policies. But only the govt has the power to put a stop to the exploitation of drivers. The drivers can't do it themselves.
> 
> So yes, the entity (the govt) that helped cause the problems is the entity drivers will need to fix those problems. It's the only hope the drivers have.
> 
> I should add that the federal govt is the entity that helped cause the problems but most likely it will be the state govts that fix it.


From the perspective I want to personally stay free of politics, the largest UP member complaint is poor pay, driven by ants, which is due to government sanctioned illegal immigration. The government has no desire to reverse immigration, so by extension the outcome will not reverse.

As you state the issue lies at the Federal level, and _some_ States are trying to fix the problem, but will most likely not. The children of the illegals are anchors, "citizens by default" (in all but a few rare cases), so even if/when States eventually purge the workforce of illegals their children will refill it. If that set of assumptions is correct, it stands to reason this is done for a purpose as those in power aren't "dumb."

Note I'm not making a value judgement, rather examining cause-effect.

On-topic, if members find this sheet is useful for record keeping and would like things modified/enhanced, either the author @*DMCK* or possibly myself may be able to assist (though I do not speak for @DMCK nor would I make modifications he does not approve of).


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> From the perspective I want to personally stay free of politics, the largest UP member complaint is poor pay, driven by ants, which is due to government sanctioned illegal immigration. The government has no desire to reverse immigration, so by extension the outcome will not reverse.
> 
> As you correctly state the issue lies at the Federal level, and _some_ States are trying to fix the problem, but will most likely not. The children of the illegals are anchors, "citizens by default" (in all but a few rare cases), so even if/when States eventually purge the workforce of illegals their children will refill it.
> 
> ...


I disagree about the illegal immigrant part. Unless someone has credible evidence to prove otherwise (and so far no one has presented any), I have no doubt that the vast majority of immigrant drivers are LEGAL immigrants.


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## ClubbaLangdaman (5 mo ago)

We’re in a recession, possibly depression for many going forward. Higher inflation than your great grandparents have witnessed, ask them. People over leveraged all over the place; homes, cars, unsecured and secured debt Etc. Bankruptcy of ungodly numbers coming. If you drive where I do overnights, all the roll backs operating in the area, from affluent to hood communities, Land Rover’s and BMW’s too Kia’s and Hyundai‘s on the back. Immigration? 

My area philly/s.Jersey, hustling full time,

I see Uber/Lyft drivers showing up with Tennesse, Ohio, Arizona, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, and West Virginia. All possibly rentals? Don’t know? I was doing gas calls in the summer, these people were not calling AAA, they were pinging Uber/Lyfts, for a ride to the nearest station, with their 1 gallon can, from affluent to hood????? Soup kitchen lines everywhere. Homeless everywhere. Homeless shelter pickups. Homeless pickups. Methadone clinic pickups, Strippers demanding more money Or getting out the business. Sally girl n Johnny boy in the back contemplating bankruptcy. ATM machine rides where they stick 10 cards in but get 50 bucks from 1 card. Mortgage brokers writers or whatever they call themselves saying 9 out of 10 people are behind or seriously delinquent. Canceled rides during the trip? Motel or hotel pickups, families live there. On and on……………..

Immigration? Distraction. There is no immigration problem. Desperate people driving for Uber/Lyft, from affluent to hood, yes they are. Only the strong survive and the weak are purged. Capitalism. Drive carefull. Be smart. It’s gonna get worse, we’re all witness to it, look around.


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## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

ClubbaLangdaman said:


> We’re in a recession, possibly depression for many going forward. Higher inflation than your great grandparents have witnessed, ask them. People over leveraged all over the place; homes, cars, unsecured and secured debt Etc. Bankruptcy of ungodly numbers coming. If you drive where I do overnights, all the roll backs operating in the area, from affluent to hood communities, Land Rover’s and BMW’s too Kia’s and Hyundai‘s on the back. Immigration?
> 
> My area philly/s.Jersey, hustling full time,
> 
> ...


Happy thanksgiving ?


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## theonearmedman (Oct 16, 2017)

ClubbaLangdaman said:


> We’re in a recession, possibly depression for many going forward. Higher inflation than your great grandparents have witnessed, ask them. People over leveraged all over the place; homes, cars, unsecured and secured debt Etc. Bankruptcy of ungodly numbers coming. If you drive where I do overnights, all the roll backs operating in the area, from affluent to hood communities, Land Rover’s and BMW’s too Kia’s and Hyundai‘s on the back. Immigration?
> 
> My area philly/s.Jersey, hustling full time,
> 
> ...



Yes. A great depression 2.0 is coming. Going to be food and fuel shortages for a while.... yet the stock markets seem to be going up even though we are in a recession... the fed doesn't want to see it crash.


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## ClubbaLangdaman (5 mo ago)

theonearmedman said:


> Yes. A great depression 2.0 is coming. Going to be food and fuel shortages for a while.... yet the stock markets seem to be going up even though we are in a recession... the fed doesn't want to see it crash.


The more money that government prints the more it filters back to the markets. Inflation. 
I read these boards. Lots of anger towards Uber/Lyft. Justifiable, some not justifiable. I listen to these wannabe wheel men/girls complain about how the fairs were cut in half. Uber/Lyft charging more….whatever. What was expected? These same people don’t realize how the rides they were taking were the most sought after rides. Medium and long haul. Less were n tear, better gas mileage etc. U know how the heard thinks? Easy money right? But Supply/demand, capitalism. These individual driver business models were never sustainable, I don’t care how the numbers were adding up. All the part timers or the government or regular job moonlighters are figuring it out the hard way, possibly to a broke down vehicle or bankruptcy themselves. A statistic. Me I’m like you wanna take that airport ride or city trip or 20 mile ride for 16 dollars, knock yourself out n go for it. They’re taking them too angrily, meanwhile screaming for government regulation and intervention, or immigration, or whatever. Communist. The weak. They’re all over the place, the weak, on here, out there…..I say get a passport and move to North Korea. 

final words, don’t hate the players, hate the game.

take it easy but take it


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## ClubbaLangdaman (5 mo ago)

And for all the failed weak…….

your in over your head. I knew what you were thinking, you know “these guys doing this are losers, I can do this.” What u didn’t know is the guys/girls doing this full are running sophisticated business operations that are capital intensive. Maintenance isn’t cheap when you’re doing it yourself. And I’m not talking oil changes. Fuel. Demographic behaviors, the dynamics of everything, on and on.

I’m just a loser wheelman who does pretty good!


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