# Social Security: The Tax That Pays



## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

When you think about Social Security, you know it is paid through your paycheck when employed and through your tax return when you earn from a different method of labor. When employed, you pay half and the employer pays half. When not, you pay the whole amount due. If you are employed and self-employed, it is a combination. High earners reach yearly ceilings, the excess of which is refundable as a tax refund. Nobody likes paying taxes, but this one has a relationship with your future, near and far. Near, if you are approaching the age, Near, if you suffer a disability from any cause that prevents you from working altogether, at any age, for a year or more, or if you are diagnosed with a terminal condition. Nobody wants to think about that. 

When you think of your tax returns you look at that standard mileage rate as your ticket to saving tax money. Tax planners tell you it is great to have as little income taxable as possible. I do not disagree but I give you a different perspective. You have to qualify for Social Security benefits when you would be eligible. You determine if you are qualified to receive any amount, or more or less. It gets determined by how much Social Security tax was paid, based on your Social Security earned income. If employed, all the tax deductions in the world do not affect your contribution to your Social Security account. But as Self-Employed, your Schedule C Profit or loss, directly does. If you conjur up a mixture of expenses that pulls it to zero, you are not contributing to your SS account. Each $1000 of income is a qualifying unit called a credit. The minimum number of credits qualifies you for SS benefits, and the number of credits determines the amount of benefit along with various actuary figures. 

Social Security Administrstion keeps tally throughout your life and they can show you where your account stands specifically. check it out at ssa.gov


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

Wouldn't you rather keep your money now, and use it when it is actually needed? and secondly? you trust someone else to do good by your money?...especially the government?! Haven't history thought you anything? I rather keep my own money instead of pooling it into SS. SS was designed to spread the wealth, not benefit you as an individual. So you're way better of with keeping the money you would otherwise need to pay to the government so it can pay out everyone and give you scraps when your turn comes. No thanks.

Paying increasing amount of taxes is precisely what is wrong. Everyone should be free to contribute money to what they chose... not be forced to pay for someone else.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

LADryver said:


> When you think about Social Security, you know it is paid through your paycheck when employed and through your tax return when you earn from a different method of labor. When employed, you pay half and the employer pays half. When not, you pay the whole amount due. If you are employed and self-employed, it is a combination. High earners reach yearly ceilings, the excess of which is refundable as a tax refund. Nobody likes paying taxes, but this one has a relationship with your future, near and far. Near, if you are approaching the age, Near, if you suffer a disability from any cause that prevents you from working altogether, at any age, for a year or more, or if you are diagnosed with a terminal condition. Nobody wants to think about that.
> 
> When you think of your tax returns you look at that standard mileage rate as your ticket to saving tax money. Tax planners tell you it is great to have as little income taxable as possible. I do not disagree but I give you a different perspective. You have to qualify for Social Security benefits when you would be elNo.ifle. You determine if you are qualified to receive any amount, or more or less. It gets determined by how much Social Security tax was paid, based on your Social Security earned income. If employed, all the tax deductions in the world do not affect your contribution to your Social Security account. But as Self-Employed, your Schedule C Profit or loss, directly does. If you conjur up a mixture of expenses that pulls it to zero, you are not contributing to your SS account. Each $1000 of income is a qualifying unit called a credit. The minimum number of credits qualifies you for SS benefits, and the number of credits determines the amount of benefit along with various actuary figures.
> 
> Social Security Administrstion keeps tally throughout your life and they can show you where your account stands specifically. check it out at ssa.gov


if Social Security does not go BANKRUPT BEFORE I CAN COLLECT IT !

IT IS STARTING TO LOOK LIKE A SCAM !

" FREE COLLEGE "!


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

You are far too young for appreciating the meaning of Social Security, perhaps? I had that view, because some people sold that view. It isnt really time that you need, but a little truth. Truth is, the government doesnt do much with Social Security which is a codified independent entity collecting, computing, administering and paying what belongs to Americans back to them. This Trust fund was legislated as a major part of The New Deal, in the 1940's. Since then it has provided its name of value. It pays widows/widowers and children living and education expenses, it pays income to disabled, it provides lifelong pension and medical care, all based on premiums paid by its beneficiaries. The only thing I know about your connection to Social Security is that you need it when you need it, would be benefited by it greater than without it, and you arent asked to do anything to get it, other than to sign a form. The closer the time comes, the more you will want to be qualified for, and you can not change the past. So, do you feel lucky?

Maybe if you can afford to have profit in the business to get taxed on, you can build your qualifying credits. The reason I wrote the post was to inforn you of the real situation. Your feelings do not change it. Find out your truth about what you will get on the ssa.gov website, and use that truth however you see fit. You have the investment to squander or use.

Money comes easy enough. Information doesnt.



tohunt4me said:


> if Social Security does not go BANKRUPT BEFORE I CAN COLLECT IT !
> 
> IT IS STARTING TO LOOK LIKE A SCAM !
> 
> " FREE COLLEGE "!


SS is not going bankrupt. Only trolls loudly claim it is. Got nothing to do with free college. Not a scam. Go to ssa.gov


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

The " AMAZING VANISHING PENSION "!


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> The " AMAZING VANISHING PENSION "!


You are now a troll.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

LADryver said:


> Money comes easy enough. Information doesnt


Ain't that the truth.

Never before has so much factual information been so readily available, to so many, at such little cost, only to be squandered and misread, misinterpreted or misused.

.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

dmoney155 said:


> Wouldn't you rather keep your money now, and use it when it is actually needed? and secondly? you trust someone else to do good by your money?...especially the government?! Haven't history thought you anything? I rather keep my own money instead of pooling it into SS. SS was designed to spread the wealth, not benefit you as an individual. So you're way better of with keeping the money you would otherwise need to pay to the government so it can pay out everyone and give you scraps when your turn comes. No thanks.
> 
> Paying increasing amount of taxes is precisely what is wrong. Everyone should be free to contribute money to what they chose... not be forced to pay for someone else.


"Now" is always approaching "Then", until "Then", becomes "Now". Every choice has an up and down side. It depends on what you want your quality of life to be when you can not produce more money.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

LADryver said:


> You are far too young for appreciating the meaning of Social Security, perhaps? I had that view, because some people sold that view. It isnt really time that you need, but a little truth. Truth is, the government doesnt do much with Social Security which is a codified independent entity collecting, computing, administering and paying what belongs to Americans back to them. This Trust fund was legislated as a major part of The New Deal, in the 1940's. Since then it has provided its name of value. It pays widows/widowers and children living and education expenses, it pays income to disabled, it provides lifelong pension and medical care, all based on premiums paid by its beneficiaries. The only thing I know about your connection to Social Security is that you need it when you need it, would be benefited by it greater than without it, and you arent asked to do anything to get it, other than to sign a form. The closer the time comes, the more you will want to be qualified for, and you can not change the past. So, do you feel lucky?
> 
> Maybe if you can afford to have profit in the business to get taxed on, you can build your qualifying credits. The reason I wrote the post was to inforn you of the real situation. Your feelings do not change it. Find out your truth about what you will get on the ssa.gov website, and use that truth however you see fit. You have the investment to squander or use.
> 
> ...


Ive been paying into it since the 70's.

This is NOT the America that once was.

So please
Tell me more . . .


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## Clint Torres (Sep 10, 2019)

One caveat is if you have a W2 spouse you can piggyback on their SS. 50%. Might makes sense to keep your money and link to spouse..... maybe professor retirement @LADryver can do a short lecture covering this subject


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Clint Torres said:


> One caveat is if you have a W2 spouse you can piggyback on their SS. 50%. Might makes sense to keep your money and link to spouse


Marry rich while you are at it. I missed the boat on this one.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Clint Torres said:


> One caveat is if you have a W2 spouse you can piggyback on their SS. 50%. Might makes sense to keep your money and link to spouse..... maybe professor retirement @LADryver can do a short lecture covering this subject


Maybe professor retirement is student of retirement. Why should I care if you can not pay for anything? Parasites will be parasites.


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## Clint Torres (Sep 10, 2019)

LADryver said:


> Maybe professor retirement is student of retirement. Why should I care if you can not pay for anything? Parasites will be parasites.


no need for butt hurt, just asking a question


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

LADryver said:


> When you think about Social Security, you know it is paid through your paycheck when employed and through your tax return when you earn from a different method of labor. When employed, you pay half and the employer pays half. When not, you pay the whole amount due. If you are employed and self-employed, it is a combination. High earners reach yearly ceilings, the excess of which is refundable as a tax refund. Nobody likes paying taxes, but this one has a relationship with your future, near and far. Near, if you are approaching the age, Near, if you suffer a disability from any cause that prevents you from working altogether, at any age, for a year or more, or if you are diagnosed with a terminal condition. Nobody wants to think about that.
> 
> When you think of your tax returns you look at that standard mileage rate as your ticket to saving tax money. Tax planners tell you it is great to have as little income taxable as possible. I do not disagree but I give you a different perspective. You have to qualify for Social Security benefits when you would be eligible. You determine if you are qualified to receive any amount, or more or less. It gets determined by how much Social Security tax was paid, based on your Social Security earned income. If employed, all the tax deductions in the world do not affect your contribution to your Social Security account. But as Self-Employed, your Schedule C Profit or loss, directly does. If you conjur up a mixture of expenses that pulls it to zero, you are not contributing to your SS account. Each $1000 of income is a qualifying unit called a credit. The minimum number of credits qualifies you for SS benefits, and the number of credits determines the amount of benefit along with various actuary figures.
> 
> Social Security Administrstion keeps tally throughout your life and they can show you where your account stands specifically. check it out at ssa.gov


Thank you for today's lesson in economics.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

LADryver said:


> It pays widows/widowers and children living and education expenses, it pays income to disabled, it provides lifelong pension and medical care, all based on premiums paid by its beneficiaries


You listed medical care as a benefit of Social Security, but isn't that what Medicare is for?


Clint Torres said:


> One caveat is if you have a W2 spouse you can piggyback on their SS. 50%. Might makes sense to keep your money and link to spouse..


There is that protection for a spouse who hasn't worked at all, or worked but not enough to qualify over their life 
(40 quarters.) My wife is in that latter category, having been a homemaker since our first child was born. If I die first, her benefit (approximately 47% of mine) goes away and she then gets an amount equal to mine for the rest of her life. If I survive her, then my benefit remains the same and hers ceases.

Regarding not paying in to SECA, or minimizing your contributions, I used to have a wealthy client, now deceased, who had an interesting take on the subject. She was a very successful and well-known interior designer, in business for close to fifty years. She told me she fussed at her accountants for years about paying in the maximum to SECA. But then in retirement she drew a hefty monthly Social Security check, making it worthwhile, especially since she lived to be 96.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I don't have a problem with SS because I think it's a great safety net to make sure people don't starve in their old age but thre are very few cases where you get back what you put in by paying more than you have to. The better way would be to claim all possible legitimate deductions and put that money away to save for a rainy day. In my case I've been working since I was 13 and have put in far more than I will ever see in benefits but that's ok, just no need to put in more than I have to.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I don't have a problem with SS because I think it's a great safety net to make sure people don't starve in their old age but thre are very few cases where you get back what you put in by paying more than you have to. The better way would be to claim all possible legitimate deductions and put that money away to save for a rainy day. In my case I've been working since I was 13 and have put in far more than I will ever see in benefits but that's ok, just no need to put in more than I have to.


Very few cases? That is not true. One pays to Social Security what they must and can not pay more. However an IRA account well-managed can be excellent and has controllable/maximum contributions.




Disgusted Driver said:


> I don't have a problem with SS because I think it's a great safety net to make sure people don't starve in their old age but thre are very few cases where you get back what you put in by paying more than you have to. The better way would be to claim all possible legitimate deductions and put that money away to save for a rainy day. In my case I've been working since I was 13 and have put in far more than I will ever see in benefits but that's ok, just no need to put in more than I have to.


Medicare premiums are paid to Social Security. Medicare is tied to Social Security. Even younger people who collect their earned/contributed share in form if disability, is issued a Medicare card in two years.

Good on that woman. She knew what she was doing.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

LADryver said:


> Good on that woman. She knew what she was doing.


Well, at least her accountants did. :wink:


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I'm 50, been paying into SS since I was 14. I really don't think it is going anywhere, but I am not 100% relying on it.

My full-time job does not currently have a retirement plan, driving for U/L has kind of become my retirement plan.

I keep detailed records and know what my car costs me per mile including fully depreciating it in 5 years. The difference between my true cost and the IRS mileage deduction is nontaxable income. This money goes into my Roth IRA to grow for retirement non-taxed.

If you are doing U/L for retirement and live in a market where you can make a taxable profit than you can open up a Solo 401(k). By doing this you can still contribute to your Roth IRA and any taxable income can be contributed to the Solo 401(k), you then defer taxes on those earning until you retire and start making withdrawals. Hopefully at a lower tax rate then you would be paying now.

I think the important part of this thread is people need to start thinking about retirement now, the younger you are the better off you will be. I preach this to my kids, as they turn 18 I help them start a Roth IRA and help them set up reoccurring regular deposits. I give them the initial $1000 deposit needed to start the Roth IRA as a 18th birthday gift.

I wish someone would have talked to me about retirement before I turned 18. It would have made a huge difference in my life.


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

waldowainthrop said:


> Marry rich while you are at it. I missed the boat on this one.


My sister married Rich but divorced him a few years later.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

dmoney155 said:


> Wouldn't you rather keep your money now, and use it when it is actually needed? I rather keep my own money instead of pooling it into SS. Everyone should be free to contribute money to what they chose... not be forced to pay for someone else.


It's true there are many inherent problems with Social Security. Say you're single and die at age 50, all that money you paid in disappears, you can't leave it to anyone.
I could discuss all day the problems plaguing the system but this is probably not the forum to do so; too many Uber drivers aren't paying into the system anyway and wouldn't have the required sense it takes to properly invest for their own future.


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## MasterAbsher (Oct 16, 2019)

Interesting article but wrong on credits.

In 2019, you must earn *$1,360* in covered earnings to get one Social Security or Medicare work credit and $5,440 to get the maximum four credits for the year. During your lifetime, you will probably earn more credits than the minimum number you need to be eligible for benefits.

You will need a total of at least 40 credits to earn Social Security.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

FLKeys said:


> I preach this to my kids, as they turn 18 I help them start a Roth IRA and help them set up reoccurring regular deposits. I give them the initial $1000 deposit needed to start the Roth IRA as a 18th birthday gift.


Just curious, how do you get around the rule that says Roth IRA contributions have to come from earned income?


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Just curious, how do you get around the rule that says Roth IRA contributions have to come from earned income?


So long as there is qualifying earned income, the actual funds for a contribution can be from any source and be made up to the due date of the year's tax return. It does not have to be an accountable straight line from qualifying earnings to contribution. If there are no earnings, then there is no going around that.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

LADryver said:


> So long as there is qualifying earned income, the actual funds for a contribution can be from any source and be made up to the due date of the year's tax return. It does not have to be an accountable straight line from qualifying earnings to contribution. If there are no earnings, then there is no going around that.


In the example shown, he was giving $1000 to each child to open the account, so what I was wondering about would the child have to have earned at least an equivalent amount. As I understand it, contributed funds to a Roth IRA must be from taxable earnings, the idea being that once tax is paid on those funds, interest or investment returns on those funds when withdrawn are tax free, unlike traditional IRAs. Can the poster's own earned income qualify in his starting Roth IRA's for his children?


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

MasterAbsher said:


> Interesting article but wrong on credits.
> 
> In 2019, you must earn *$1,360* in covered earnings to get one Social Security or Medicare work credit and $5,440 to get the maximum four credits for the year. During your lifetime, you will probably earn more credits than the minimum number you need to be eligible for benefits.
> 
> You will need a total of at least 40 credits to earn Social Security.


Good update. And currently there is yet another. For 2020 the amount per credit went up to $1410, and the four credit maximum is still applicable. One may ask, why different people get different amounts of Social Security? In order to get any benefit checks, the credits must be earned, the four across ten years, or 40 credits. All earners qualify equally but not all earners get equal benefits, because "During your lifetime, you will probably earn more credits than the minimum number you need to be eligible for benefits. These extra credits do not increase your benefit amount. The average of your earnings over your working years, not the number of credits you earn, determines how much your monthly payment will be." So, you can bet on your longevity and earn where it matters when it matters. Every year the earned income is reduced through clever "tax planning" the lower your Social Security average will be and lower the monthly check.

About IRA's and private pensions. IRA's are finite and can be exhausted. Pension plans are more and more vulnerable to economic winds and company and plan solvency and also is finite.

Social Security in its own Trust, goes on every month with schefuled cost of living increases, for as long as you live with no maximum age. The higher that yearly average, the better.



Older Chauffeur said:


> In the example shown, he was giving $1000 to each child to open the account, so what I was wondering about would the child have to have earned at least an equivalent amount. As I understand it, contributed funds to a Roth IRA must be from taxable earnings, the idea being that once tax is paid on those funds, interest or investment returns on those funds when withdrawn are tax free, unlike traditional IRAs. Can the poster's own earned income qualify in his starting Roth IRA's for his children?


Many minors begin working in their childhoods, depending upon the state qualifying work age (NY 14; CA 16) or working for a parent or in an exempted work such as in entertainment, where work can be at any age exempt from most commonly known labor laws. So long as the minor being gifted has the qualifying earned income but the parent or other adult must open the account as a Custodial Roth IRA. "There are no age restrictions. Kids of any age *can* contribute to a *Roth IRA*, as long as they have earned income. A parent or other adult *will* need to *open* the custodial *Roth IRA* for the *child*. ... A *Roth IRA* is more flexible than other retirement accounts because contributions *can* be withdrawn at any time."


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## MasterAbsher (Oct 16, 2019)

LADryver said:


> Good update. And currently there is yet another. For 2020 the amount per credit went up to $1410, and the four credit maximum is still applicable. One may ask, why different people get different amounts of Social Security? In order to get any benefit checks, the credits must be earned, the four across ten years, or 40 credits. All earners qualify equally but not all earners get equal benefits, because "During your lifetime, you will probably earn more credits than the minimum number you need to be eligible for benefits. These extra credits do not increase your benefit amount. The average of your earnings over your working years, not the number of credits you earn, determines how much your monthly payment will be." So, you can bet on your longevity and earn where it matters when it matters. Every year the earned income is reduced through clever "tax planning" the lower your Social Security average will be and lower the monthly check.
> 
> About IRA's and private pensions. IRA's are finite and can be exhausted. Pension plans are more and more vulnerable to economic winds and company and plan solvency and also is finite.
> 
> Social Security in its own Trust, goes on every month with schefuled cost of living increases, for as long as you live with no maximum age. The higher that yearly average, the better.


True. For the novice reading this, the 40 credits don't have to be in a 10 year period. Maybe one year sucked and you only earned 1 credit. 1o years is the fastest you can earn all 40 credits.

Another area many Husbands dont think about when it comes to Social Security us their wives. This happens where a husband is self employed and wife is the homemaker. I'm not talking about death benefits. In my case, wife has been a housewife for decades. I added her name to our business. Since I'm at full social security age and shes not, I'm now putting the bulk of the earnings in her name.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

MasterAbsher said:


> True. For the novice reading this, the 40 credits don't have to be in a 10 year period. Maybe one year sucked and you only earned 1 credit. 1o years is the fastest you can earn all 40 credits.
> 
> Another area many Husbands dont think about when it comes to Social Security us their wives. This happens where a husband is self employed and wife is the homemaker. I'm not talking about death benefits. In my case, wife has been a housewife for decades. I added her name to our business. Since I'm at full social security age and shes not, I'm now putting the bulk of the earnings in her name.


Social Security includes benefits for non-working spouses. Make sure you do not inadvertently disqualify your wife. What you are doing is stunting your own benegi do I do not know how it works legally in general if the corporation employee is actually not working. My uncle had his daughters on the payroll for years but I think something may have been passed to curtail such payroll additions. I am not educated on this in particular but you might want to check.


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## MasterAbsher (Oct 16, 2019)

Shes not vcd an employee. We are not a corporation. We do have an awesome CPA.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

MasterAbsher said:


> Shes not vcd an employee. We are not a corporation. We do have an awesome CPA.


You have to learn this yourself. Your CPA is not going to be paying consequences of a misunderstanding.



MasterAbsher said:


> Shes not vcd an employee. We are not a corporation. We do have an awesome CPA.


Social Security comes from earned income. When you said you put her name in the business, then if not employee then partnership or proprietership. If you file joint returns it goes in the same tax pot but you make the assumption she will outlive you. You make other assumptions too. CPA's are hired because they possess knowledge you do not. CPA's make everything they say sound brilliant. The vulnerable spot is about the stakes. If he makes it sound like he knows absolutely and it makes sense to you, he could still be mistaken. To become a CPA a person must possess this quality. You need to go to google and ssa and find out for yourself. It is your retirement. CPA's dont get to see their long range errors.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

MasterAbsher said:


> True. For the novice reading this, the 40 credits don't have to be in a 10 year period. Maybe one year sucked and you only earned 1 credit. 1o years is the fastest you can earn all 40 credits.
> 
> Another area many Husbands dont think about when it comes to Social Security us their wives. This happens where a husband is self employed and wife is the homemaker. I'm not talking about death benefits. In my case, wife has been a housewife for decades. I added her name to our business. Since I'm at full social security age and shes not, I'm now putting the bulk of the earnings in her name.


Revisiting this because I have just done some reading and also the internet connection flaked out on my original response significantly. My own point of view is that of someone who lost nearly 20 years of earned income and has no spouse. I am eligible to claim ss early but am not doing so. I know from reading that although I have my qualifying 40 credits, I do not have the desired 35 year average of higher earnings years by which to maximize my own personal benefits. Math is that from the highest 70 year point for claiming, the age of 35 as the start point of successful work is necessary. Work began at 17 on minimum wage, and in variations from 20. But my jobs early on had none of the power of scale that we expect these days. In the range of 35 years, the legal average base, I know that I must maximize the number of years in which that average can be raised.

Two conditions apply to benefits. 40 credits to get them at all, in a minimum of 10 years, plus to get more than the minimum benefits, gain a good average of earnings up to the yearly maximum, in a 35 year average of highest earning years. This 35 year average continues to compute if there is a lower earning year replaced by a higher earning year even after full retirement age.

Investopedia has the info I knew: "Working past full retirement age may increase Social Security benefits in the future because Social Security contributions continue to be paid in."

If there was a non-working spouse, they could apply on my account once they reach the age, and get 50 percent more, meaning our combined social security would be 150% of my own. As a survivor they could get all of mine.

Your CPA may have info I dont, such as you may have income of above 128000 each year or more. I hope he really is awesome otherwise you might want to amend some tax returns.


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## MasterAbsher (Oct 16, 2019)

Thanks for the input. I do have a unique situation


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

MasterAbsher said:


> Thanks for the input. I do have a unique situation


FWIW good info is found "As a spouse, you *can* claim a *Social Security* benefit based on your own earnings record, or collect a spousal benefit in the amount of 50% of your spouse's *Social Security* benefit, but not both. You are automatically entitled to receive whichever benefit provides you the higher monthly amount."

On another view of course, if the amount of the higher earning spouse is reduced by design, then that spousal half would be less. Currently the maximum monthly full benefit is $3770. Spouse half simultaneously received is $1885 for combined couple income from Social Security of $5655. The maximum full benefit is realized if for 35 years the contribution ceiling for FICA was reached (or Self Employment Tax) each year. The 35 years average computation is performed automatically regardless of age if work is continued past full retirement age.

I believe you could find the official info that says that a surviving spouse can trade their lower check for a deceased higher check instead of their own lower check. I think the SSecurity is designed so that spouses need not take measures for their spouse.

You can check your own status on your statement maintained by Social Security. Years, reported earnings, and benefit projections. https://www.ssa.gov/myaccount/


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Just curious, how do you get around the rule that says Roth IRA contributions have to come from earned income?


Kids all had jobs and had enough earnings to more than cover the initial deposit. The $1000 is just the boost they need to open the account. Even if they saved the money their self I'm still kicking in money to help them get started. It;s like a welcome to adulthood gift.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

I closed my private driving business a year ago, so can no longer add to my Roth IRA. Good for you, giving your kids a leg up and educating them in the process.:thumbup:


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

dmoney155 said:


> Wouldn't you rather keep your money now, and use it when it is actually needed? and secondly? you trust someone else to do good by your money?...especially the government?! Haven't history thought you anything? I rather keep my own money instead of pooling it into SS. SS was designed to spread the wealth, not benefit you as an individual. So you're way better of with keeping the money you would otherwise need to pay to the government so it can pay out everyone and give you scraps when your turn comes. No thanks.
> 
> Paying increasing amount of taxes is precisely what is wrong. Everyone should be free to contribute money to what they chose... not be forced to pay for someone else.


I would love to keep my money now, but as it happens, now is when I begin eligibility to claim for my benefits. If I wait seven years I can double my monthly benefit, and all I have to do is keep working and make the same amount. Not only that, there is a little-known formula by which monthly checks can increase further by continuing to work even after the full retirement age. When you do reach this point, there are two realizations people often may have including you. The reality of the benefits become tangible to you and you cant change it significantly if it is lower than you want. You can go forwards but not backwards. You can look at your own account at ssa.gov/myaccount so that you can see where your Social Security buildup stands. I used to tell my own tax consulting clients years ago that they should not be basing every decision on taxes because there is a wider economic picture. "Dont be afraid to make money."


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## SOLA-RAH (Dec 31, 2014)

Uber's Guber said:


> It's true there are many inherent problems with Social Security. Say you're single and die at age 50, all that money you paid in disappears, you can't leave it to anyone.
> I could discuss all day the problems plaguing the system but this is probably not the forum to do so; too many Uber drivers aren't paying into the system anyway and wouldn't have the required sense it takes to properly invest for their own future.


Social Security is insurance that you pay for, not a tax or entitlement. It's literally in the official name: Old Age, Survivors, & Disability *Insurance* (OASDI). And as with all insurances...you pay your money, take your chances, and get what you get. With insurance sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, while the worst case (but rare) scenarios are covered.


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## MasterAbsher (Oct 16, 2019)

Disability question. I've been given different answers. Let's say you are taking regular social security. You become disabled. Can you then apply for disability? In my case, I would get more money. Someone told me the deadline to apply is 65 years of age. I'm passed that. Thank you.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

SOLA-RAH said:


> Social Security is insurance that you pay for, not a tax or entitlement. It's literally in the official name: Old Age, Survivors, & Disability *Insurance* (OASDI). And as with all insurances...you pay your money, take your chances, and get what you get. With insurance sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, while the worst case (but rare) scenarios are covered.


You are much too literal. You are also cynical about the guarantees built into the formation and structure of Social Security. Best you recognize your cynicism and not pass it out as fact.



MasterAbsher said:


> Disability question. I've been given different answers. Let's say you are taking regular social security. You become disabled. Can you then apply for disability? In my case, I would get more money. Someone told me the deadline to apply is 65 years of age. I'm passed that. Thank you.


Based on your birth year, your "Full Retirement Age" may be a tad later than 65. However it is easily searchable from reputable and non-wavering sources that, even though you have filed your early claim, you can apply for Social Security Disability up to your full retirement age. For whomever may qualify it would be changed.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

dmoney155 said:


> Wouldn't you rather keep your money now, and use it when it is actually needed? and secondly? you trust someone else to do good by your money?...especially the government?! Haven't history thought you anything? I rather keep my own money instead of pooling it into SS. SS was designed to spread the wealth, not benefit you as an individual. So you're way better of with keeping the money you would otherwise need to pay to the government so it can pay out everyone and give you scraps when your turn comes. No thanks.
> 
> Paying increasing amount of taxes is precisely what is wrong. Everyone should be free to contribute money to what they chose... not be forced to pay for someone else.


Americans are too stupid for that. Many 'Mericans if you had them $100 they will take that $100 go to the mall and spend it right away. Then they will go home with $300 worth or crap and $200 in credit card debt.


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## newintownx (Sep 28, 2015)

Please allow me to ask couple of Q.
How do RS drivers in here pay SS?

Also ,do you pay the SS from your net after expenses. 
To put things in numbers 

From March last yr to current made 45k with both app 
Uber/ lyft Fees were 12k 
Drove 25k miles ( Do you round up the miles ? ) 
I am assuming , I will do my taxes this way

33k- 25k miles rates = rough math is about 18k 
And the SS of the the 18k ???
Is that how you guys pay the SS ?? 
Thank you 

Thank you


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

T


newintownx said:


> Please allow me to ask couple of Q.
> How do RS drivers in here pay SS?
> 
> Also ,do you pay the SS from your net after expenses.
> ...


There's a Schedule SE on which you will figure your SECA (Social Security and Medicare contributions) amounts on your net profit from Schedule C business income and expenses. It's the same 15.3% as you and an employer would pay together through withholding on a regular job. In the case of self employment there is a threshold of $400 in profit- if your net profit is below that you won't pay SECA. In your case it looks like you will owe SECA, so you will pay it with any income taxes you owe when you file your return.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

newintownx said:


> Please allow me to ask couple of Q.
> How do RS drivers in here pay SS?
> 
> Also ,do you pay the SS from your net after expenses.
> ...


You should do your own taxes only if you know exactly what your answers are and not to find them in a forum.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

LADryver said:


> You should do your own taxes only if you know exactly what your answers are and not to find them in a forum.


Does not hurt to ask questions and learn for yourself. Not all tax professionals are honest. If you don't have a good idea of how your taxes should be done how do you know the "Professional" is doing it right?

I ask questions in forums all the time. I would never take information provided by a forum as gospel. It gives me a starting point to do more research.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

I've been doing my own taxes most of my life, beginning many years before programs such as TurboTax were available. (Think early sixties.) I used to receive in the mail tax forms and instructions based on my prior year's filing. The post office had stacks of forms and instructions for DIY filers as well.

Even when I used the services of a CPA in more recent years due to self employment and retirement investment income, I used TurboTax to help me learn and follow what he was doing. I try to read every thread here on taxes, and follow up by looking at the IRS publications when I find new information of interest. A couple of years ago I returned to filing myself, using TurboTax Deluxe, the CD version from Costco, ($39.95).

When I post in the tax threads I do so based on my own experience and what I have read in those IRS publications, quoting them when I feel it is helpful and appropriate. I also appreciate the advice offered by @UberTaxPro, which I have found to be accurate and very helpful, and presented in a congenial, professional manner.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> Does not hurt to ask questions and learn for yourself. Not all tax professionals are honest. If you don't have a good idea of how your taxes should be done how do you know the "Professional" is doing it right?
> 
> I ask questions in forums all the time. I would never take information provided by a forum as gospel. It gives me a starting point to do more research.


I can not believe you just said that. Of couse these posts here are more accurate than a tax pro? I can not believe it. My head is about to explode. Get your head out of someone elses garbage. You have no idea what you are talking about. But I will show you the errors.
"Does not hurt to ask questions and learn for yourself" Yes, you are right, but where you choose to ask the questions matters a lot.
"Not all tax professionals are honest" This is more likely to be true of anyone claiming tax expertise on the internet and all online forums including this one are on the internet. It is the least reliable place to find "honest", meaning accurate, appropriate, workable, realistic answers. You need to develop your own way of knowing. We have a disadvantage in our industry of rideshare. But going to the office of a tax professional who has years of experience with taxes year-round, who knows all kinds of tax things and who knows how to interpret tax law, is a way to overcome it. Someone like that will be as honest as you permit them to be. By permiting, means to let them decide how to represent your situation. Do not prepare your tax return in your head and tell him how it should be. DO tell him the day to day routines you go through in your car. Before rides, between rides, all of it. Tell them in your own words what you do. I always had my clients walk me through their days. I did it when I was a personel placement counselor to screen experience, and I did it as a tax preparer to find expenses to write off. The message here is to go face to face with someone who is not a shingle hanger, and do not have any preconcieved notions about how your tax return shiuld be done. Tell him what you do, when you do it, and what it costs. Never use the phrase "dead-head" unless you are referring to personal miles, or miles you want disregarded. All ride seeking miles are business miles, so you can know that. You can walk away if what they say contradicts this. But if you do this simple definition you should do fine. You can then ask them all the questions that matter to you.
"If you don't have a good idea of how your taxes should be done how do you know the "Professional" is doing it right?" First, go to someone who is actually a professional. Not someone who deserves the quotation marks. Find a tax practitioner who has an office and has had the office for several years and who is available to be contacted most of if not during the whole year. Everyone takes vacations after all. It is the rightness of the choice of the tax professional that matters. You can not go in "knowing" HOW he is to do your taxes. It is their job to listen to you and ask you questions.



Older Chauffeur said:


> I've been doing my own taxes most of my life, beginning many years before programs such as TurboTax were available. (Think early sixties.) I used to receive in the mail tax forms and instructions based on my prior year's filing. The post office had stacks of forms and instructions for DIY filers as well.
> 
> Even when I used the services of a CPA in more recent years due to self employment and retirement investment income, I used TurboTax to help me learn and follow what he was doing. I try to read every thread here on taxes, and follow up by looking at the IRS publications when I find new information of interest.
> 
> When I post in the tax threads I do so based on my own experience and what I have read in those IRS publications, quoting them when I feel it is helpful and appropriate.


There were advantages to the wide availability of official forms and publications. There was a clear-cut secure feeling that you can look up your question and the answer would be right there. The phone numbers for tax questions to ask live operators in the IRS were clearly published in bold print. Every IRS local District had a phone bank of trained, salaried, and heavily monitored operators. Even there, some operators misunderstood the question and gave incorrect answers. And they were right there, with everything available, and official IRS training. Some taxpayers knew they were misunderstood, and called multiple times before getting the answer they needed. So back in the day, it was a complex venture just to get the right information. Add what was never imagined then as modernisation, that makes the word "modernisation" seem old fashioned, and you have more complications. Some things are still true, however.

When there is a new industry the tax publications have not been updated yet to include them. When that happens then the source law must be relied upon to provide the best answer. A true tax practitioner is someone who can juxtapose the pieces of source law so that it applies to the individual client. The source law for business expenses is called Internal Revenue Code Section 162. It is also written as §162, or IRC162. This being source law has additional sources. A really experienced tax practitioner (notice I use the word "practitioner") knows that going as deep as the Congressional Record would bring the answer that is needed for their client. It takes actually high level reading comprehension skills and understanding of other areas where the source law is interpreted such as Regulations, called Regulations, where some unclear portions would be made more clear. In other words, you do not have that immediately available. A new industry requires the intelligence and experience of a tax practitioner to hammer it out and eventually it will be in the official publications. Rideshare is not yet in the official publications.

If it is not in the official publications, which it is not, it is also not in Turbo Tax or any other pre-programmed tax service using string branches of loops for responses. You need either the confidence to research correctly, or the wisdom to know your job, or a tax practitioner to hear the truth from an interview with you, to get it right. While you rely on unrelated paragraphs, you are definitely doing it wrong. And you have less to quote than you think.



> I also appreciate the advice offered by @UberTaxPro, which I have found to be accurate and very helpful, and presented in a congenial, professional manner.


That poster does not know Uber actually. They know taxi fleet ownership. They are not an Uber Driver. He may be in the process of enrolling now that I have called attention to what is on Uber.com that would be of value to a tax preparer working on your tax return which he has not yet seen. He also won't see them until he actually drives on Uber so he get them on his own site. He does not know that Rideshare is its own industry model. He is not an expert. He recently learned taxes. He is a pro but he is still learning how to be a professional. He came here to find clients or to get some cred. But until he recognizes that Rideshare is not IRS published, he misleads everyone who follows his quotes.


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