# Report Shows U/L Can Pay Drivers More



## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

but Uber disagrees and Lyft has no comment.​








​[HEADING=2]Uber and Lyft can pay drivers more without raising rates for riders, report says​[/HEADING]
The doom-and-gloom scenario, forecast by the ride-hail companies when New York regulators passed a minimum wage, never happened.
​In 2018, New York became the first city in the US to require Uber and Lyft to pay their drivers a minimum wage. After studying the effects of the mandate, economists released a report Tuesday that says the policy ended up raising driver pay without significant fare increases going to riders.

When regulators first suggested implementing the pay rules, Uber and Lyft pushed back against the city, saying such a move would "lead to higher than necessary fare increases for riders." But the findings from the report Tuesday, titled New York City's Gig Driver Pay Standard: Effects on Drivers, Passengers, and the Companies, tell a different story.

Combing through data from 500 million trips from 2018 and 2019, economists from the University of Chicago, The New School and the University of California at Berkeley found that drivers' pay increased by about 9% or $1.33 per trip, in 2019. And at the same time, passenger growth continued and wait times fell. Some of these same economists were hired by New York to study the viability of a minimum pay standard before it went into effect.

"The first year of experience under the New York City driver pay standard (before the pandemic) shows that driver pay rose, more efficient use was made of drivers' time, passengers paid a little more but waited a minute less on average for a car to arrive," said James Parrott, one of the authors of the report and a director at the Center for New York City Affairs at The New School. "While the companies' commission rate declined, they still made a lot of money from their app-dispatch business."

Uber and Lyft have long been able to pay drivers what they wanted and to change pay rates when they wished. That's because drivers are classified as independent contractors and don't have the same labor protections as employees. But now regulators in various states, including New York, Washington and California, have begun looking into more pay protections for drivers.

Seattle passed a minimum wage for drivers last summer, and California passed a state law in 2019 to classify drivers as employees, which would guarantee them the minimum wage. Uber, Lyft and other gig economy companies were exempted from that law in California, however, after launching a $205 million ballot measure campaign that ended in November. Californians ultimately voted with the companies to keep drivers classified as independent contractors.

Parrott and the other economists' say in their report that if drivers are given more protections, the results won't necessarily hurt riders. They companies, however, may take a small hit. The economists estimated that Uber and Lyft's commission rates declined in New York from 15% in June 2018 to 12.5% a year later.

An Uber spokesman said New York's policy did lead to an increase in fares for riders the first year it was in effect. He also said the pay rules forced Uber and Lyft to restrict how many drivers could be on the apps, which led to driver protests against the companies.

"In just the first year of the rule's implementation fares increased, tens of thousands of drivers lost reliable access to the app and there were massive driver protests against the law," the spokesman said. "It's not surprising that the same people who created the rule now have a study showing how successful it was, but the facts show otherwise."

The spokesman pointed to a January article in the New York Times that shows some airport trips in the city have cost as much as $120. The article cites the main reason for the high fares as Uber and Lyft raising their prices after having "artificially cheap" ride fares in the years before they became publicly traded companies.

While the economists who authored the report on Tuesday said New York was a unique city to study since they were provided so much data from local regulators, the lessons learned there could still apply to other cities.

Lyft declined to comment.

https://www.cnet.com/news/uber-and-...without-raising-rates-for-riders-report-says/


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

MHR said:


> ​
> "Uber and Lyft have long been able to pay drivers what they wanted and to change pay rates when they wished. That's because drivers are classified as independent contractors and don't have the same labor protections as employees. But now regulators in various states, including New York, Washington and California, have begun looking into more pay protections for drivers."


Indeed my good friend MHR, Uber and Lyft have us effectively in chains. And as long as their top owners and execs make off with billions, what desire do they have in helping us? I recall driving part time while in college for Flash Cab. Some of the drivers were actually owners in the company, so the drivers could vote and dictate pay rates. Now all that power has been stripped away from the drivers. When U/L says jump, we can only ask, "How high?" Or we take a hike, and there will be myriads of would be ants willing to take our place in the cue.


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## Jst1dreamr (Apr 25, 2019)

MHR said:


> but Uber disagrees and Lyft has no comment.​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hell, we all knew that already. We didn't need a bunch of worthless no-life economists to tell us.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

MHR said:


> Uber and Lyft can pay drivers more *without raising rates for riders*, report says





MHR said:


> *passengers paid a little more* ..." said James Parrott, one of the authors of the report


Do the authors even read what they wrote?



MHR said:


> drivers' pay increased by about 9% or $1.33 per trip, in 2019. And at the same time, passenger growth continued


So, passenger growth led to increased earnings for drivers?
Wow! Thank God we have economists to figure these things out.
BTW, how's that passenger growth lately?


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## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

I tried to find the study they referenced but all I came up with was this one. It says it's a preliminary study and not to be cited. It was drafted June 10, 2020.

If I read it correctly (I skimmed through to try to find the pertinent info) it stated that drivers earned more due to pax being charged more. That indeed goes against what this article purports.

EFFECTS OF MANDATED DRIVER PAY INCREASES ON THE GIG ECONOMY:
EVIDENCE FROM NEW YORK CITY

http://conference.iza.org/conference_files/DATA_2020/koustas_d9627.pdf


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## Paladin220 (Jun 2, 2017)

so no mention of the fact that they limit the amount of drivers that can go online? Yes, maybe the pay was raised for the drivers that are online and able to drive, but what about the pay for the drivers that can't even turn the app on when they want to? What does their pay look like?


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

MHR said:


> but Uber disagrees and Lyft has no comment.​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


&#128514;
Remember that when you remodel your home
Get the low bid but pay the contractor more than the high bid.

Every company can afford to pay more
But why?

Last night in 1 hour I had to log back on 10 times.
I declined 30 rides out of the quest area.
Who went? Who took them
Did these people walk home?

I refuse to work for less than 20 an hour. That's my power.
But someone will. That's the problem. 
Unions call them scabs


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

why are these people obsessed with a minimum wage???....just raise the rates, a wage means a shift where and when they want where you accept every ride. Democrat nutjobs are obsessed with uber and lyft drivers while tweeting on there chinese sweatshop made iphones. Don't these people have anything else to worry about considering most of them have never driven for uber and there are so many other more pressing issues???


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

MHR said:


> but Uber disagrees and Lyft has no comment.​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Uber
Should have never cut Rates !

Personal car rides SHOULD cost more than the bus !



dnlbaboof said:


> why are these people obsessed with a minimum wage???....just raise the rates, a wage means a shift where and when they want where you accept every ride. Democrat nutjobs are obsessed with uber and lyft drivers while tweeting on there chinese sweatshop made iphones. Don't these people have anything else to worry about considering most of them have never driven for uber and there are so many other more pressing issues???


no one WORKING for Uber
Has ever driven for Uber either !

The Root of the Problem !


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I'm OK with what I get paid in my market.

This is free enterprise, not socialism.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Who takes them ?


dnlbaboof said:


> why are these people obsessed with a minimum wage???....just raise the rates, a wage means a shift where and when they want where you accept every ride. Democrat nutjobs are obsessed with uber and lyft drivers while tweeting on there chinese sweatshop made iphones. Don't these people have anything else to worry about considering most of them have never driven for uber and there are so many other more pressing issues???


how does raising the rates help when 500 people quit Walmart to drive for Uber and you end up sitting empty?
5.00 dollars a mile times 0 miles is___

Why would anyone ever choose to be a roofer 140° on a rooftop making 15 or $16 an hour if you can make 30 driving for Uber


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

wallae said:


> Who takes them ?
> 
> how does raising the rates help when 500 people quit Walmart to drive for Uber and you end up sitting empty?
> 5.00 dollars a mile times 0 miles is___
> ...


Well if demand is that low uber will not even hire anyone anyway, demand was fine before lockdown, and watch once the vaccine comes out now that biden is president all the demo governors who caused this mess will open up the states cause an increase in demand, as they are just locking down to screw Trump...


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Put rates and pay structure back to where it was in 2016, Uber and Lyft will make money, drivers will make money, 80% of riders won't notice the difference, and what will the other 20% do, switch to more expensive taxi's, hardly.



wallae said:


> Who takes them ?
> 
> how does raising the rates help when 500 people quit Walmart to drive for Uber and you end up sitting empty?
> 5.00 dollars a mile times 0 miles is___
> ...


$15 or $16 hr as a roofer, that's a damn cheap roofer.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

.


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## Ummm5487 (Oct 15, 2020)

You always get screwed doing business with _____


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Taxi2Uber said:


> passenger growth led to increased earnings for drivers?


This is one of the things on which Uber based its now infamous lie:

" Lower rates mean higher earnings for our 'partners' "


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> This is one of the things on which Uber based its now infamous lie:
> 
> " Lower rates mean higher earnings for our 'partners' "


.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stingy


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

wallae said:


> .


I can assure you, that's not what roofers are making in the Denver market


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Frontier Guy said:


> I can assure you, that's not what roofers are making in the Denver market


Denver
The little dot in red?


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

That's a smudge, not a dot.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Frontier Guy said:


> That's a smudge, not a dot.


So is Denver


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

You know
Before Uber cut fare to bus rates
We NEVER HAD FALSE DEACTIVATIONS !

WHEN UBER CHEAPENED OUR EARNINGS

UBER CHEAPENED THE CUSTOMER BASE.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> You know
> Before Uber cut fare to bus rates
> We NEVER HAD FALSE DEACTIVATIONS !
> 
> ...


Wow my brother @tohunt4me !! You always actually amaze me with your keen insights. That thought did cross my mind but now that you bring it up it makes so much more sense. Before, you're right that the customer base was more first class. Now we literally get some of the dregs of society.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

Pay cuts are theft....Simple as that.

Boober's days are numbered.


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

Young Kim said:


> Indeed my good friend MHR, Uber and Lyft have us effectively in chains. And as long as their top owners and execs make off with billions, what desire do they have in helping us? I recall driving part time while in college for Flash Cab. Some of the drivers were actually owners in the company, so the drivers could vote and dictate pay rates. Now all that power has been stripped away from the drivers. When U/L says jump, we can only ask, "How high?" Or we take a hike, and there will be myriads of would be ants willing to take our place in the cue.


Are all ants are ignorant as you assumed? Can we have smart ants and dumb ants. smart ants should be paid the legal minimum wages, but dumb ants, whatever the big button pleased to pay.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

The big lie of (illegal immigrants) doing the job Americans won’t do.

The lie of “woke” tech supporting illegal immigrants but not really caring if you make minimum wage.

As a democrat who does not listen to the party agenda I’m always amazed at how the stupid follow without realizing common sense

You can’t have more people than jobs. And a higher minimum wage does not help the unemployed. (Nobody will pay you to sit empty)


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

ntcindetroit said:


> Are all ants are ignorant as you assumed? Can we have smart ants and dumb ants. smart ants should be paid the legal minimum wages, but dumb ants, whatever the big button pleased to pay.


C'mon my good friend @ntcindetroit , you can't possibly imagine I think ants are ignorant! I always talk about this ...that as a group, we ants are an extremely intelligent bunch. I am just talking about how helpless we are COMPARED to the group of drivers that worked within a taxicab association.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

wallae said:


> The big lie of (illegal immigrants) doing the job Americans won't do.
> 
> The lie of "woke" tech supporting illegal immigrants but not really caring if you make minimum wage.
> 
> ...


Well Illegal immigrants will do jobs that Americans won't do... for the same price.

Best of all, illegal immigrants complain a lot less and tend to be more reliable employees.

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/21/7523...cumented-workers-you-cannot-hire-american-her


> "You cannot hire an American here that will show up to work. They will not be committed to their job. In America," she says, "restaurant work is not a serious profession."
> 
> President Trump, who signed the "Buy American and Hire American" executive order that led to a crackdown on visa fraud, frequently argues that unauthorized immigrants take jobs away from U.S. workers. By that logic, Jaime is taking a job away from a citizen who wants it, to which Lynn responds with a laugh.
> 
> "That is the biggest joke. I hear it all the time. We put ads on Craigslist, Facebook, in the window, in the newspaper," she says. "The people that come in and apply to take our jobs will show up for one shift. They will not be clean. They will not probably be sober. They will ask for their money at the end of the shift and then they will not be back for the second shift."


She could probably hire a reliable cook for her kitchen if she paid $30 per hour for the job... but she won't. Like she says, she'll close shop first.

As a hopeful industrialist, I'd look forward to the day where I could get away with hiring only illegal immigrants under the table instead of paying wages and benefits and taxes on entitled, lazy, whiny, and lawsuit happy American citizens.

Simply by means of their immigration to the USA, they have demonstrated a laudable character trait that most Americans lack... ambitious effort to improve their standing in life.... Unlike many Americans who just want their paycheck so they can smoke their bowl of weed, and better yet find some reason they can file a lawsuit and get some pro-bono attorney to pay them "damages" so they can spend all day long every day smoking their bowls and never have to do any work.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

I we string Dhara, Logan and John up by their short hairs, I can assure you they'll pay us more too


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