# What do you know? Employers who stop offering crap wages get inundated with jobseekers!



## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/06/10/worker-shortage-raising-wages/



Of course, there is one party decrying all this "inflation".


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## HPRohit (Apr 9, 2018)

Chipotle hikes prices to cover the cost of raising wages


Chipotle Mexican Grill has hiked menu prices by roughly 4% to cover the cost of raising its workers' wages.




www.cnbc.com













New McDonald’s In Phoenix Run Entirely By Robots - News Examiner


Phoenix, AZ — After seeing a decline in earnings for the first time in nine years, McDonald’s plans to do something no other restaurant of its kind has ever done before; open a store run entirely by robots. The store is set to open July 4th in Phoenix, Arizona once the state-of-the-art robot...




newsexaminer.net













Former McDonald's CEO warns $15 minimum wage directly contributing to fast-food industry's automation push


Last month, McDonald's announced plans to raise the starting hourly wage range to $11-$17 per hour for crew and $15-$20 per hour for shift managers.




www.foxbusiness.com





"Rensi told FOX Business that while a $15 minimum wage may sound appealing, McDonald's only choices to offset the cost of the wage hike are to raise prices or adopt new technology to cut costs and increase efficiency."


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Increase Wages 3% increase prices 4-5%.

What many don't know or realize is that when an employer has to increase wages by a certain percentage they need o increase costs by a higher percentage to cover the costs. That increase in wage also cause an increase in the employment taxes the employer pays, also the companies insurance costs go up as they are also dictated by wages. Payroll services charge a percent of payroll so now their payroll costs go up. Oh and guess what, now that the prices of goods went up you the consumer also pay more in taxes. 

You see that simple wage increase dominos on the employer forcing them to charge more. In turn wile you may make more money, you are now paying more for goods and taxes. Ultimately if you are in a low earning bracket that forced pay increase leaves you with even less money at the end of the week.

I also shrinks the wealth gap in between the low income and middle income class. The middle income class does not see a benefit of the minimum wage increase yet feels the full impact of the cost increase. Soon there will not be a middle class. There will be the haves and the have nots. At that point the wealthy can control the poor and force them into working to survive. Want food, you have to do this job, like it or not. There will no longer be an American Dream, once the country is split into two halves, poor/wealthy, there will be no chance for the poor to move to the wealthy class.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

This is what I was posting about a few weeks ago.... that it is rising wages that are the biggest harbinger of a permanent rise in prices across the board. Rising wages is what makes me think that the current inflation rate is not just the temporary bump the authorities are telling us is the case.


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## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/06/10/worker-shortage-raising-wages/
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, there is one party decrying all this "inflation".


FAKE news ! There are plenty businesses offering low end jobs paying $15/hr that still have worker shortages and will continue to have shortages until September . Why September do you ask ? Because that's when the enhanced unemployment benefits run out . I wonder who's duck AOC had to suck to get this story written ?


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Too many people here demanding people go back to work for slave wages . My question to you is why do you ask someone else to do the same thing you are not willing to do? Do you want to work for slave wages ?
Ahhh , but you demand others to do it because you can not get decent service on a price you can afford.That kind of entitlement is exactly what is wrong with this country . White Supremacy at their best.YOUR needs are in front of anyone else’s . And of course, we all know most service jobs are done by minorities.
Screw you !!! Get your hands dirty and get the job done yourself , if you can’t afford to pay for it .And when you complain about inflation , remember many of you chose to elect an incompetent MAN BABY that screw our economy for failing to deal with a pandemic that created an unnecessary crisis in the last 2 years of his presidency.Presently we are paying for that incompetence until the adults in the room fix all the screw up.The next time you hate , get the best of you , try to use your brain to elect a decent man as a president , being Democrat or Republican but a decent and honest person , instead of a grifter narcissist liar.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

UberPotomac said:


> Too many people here demanding people go back to work for slave wages . My question to you is why do you ask someone else to do the same thing you are not willing to do?
> Do you want to work for slave wages ?
> Ahhh , but you demand others to do it because you can not get decent service on a price you can afford . That kind of entitlement is exactly what is wrong with this country . White Supremacy at their best . YOUR needs are in front of anyone else’s . And of course, we all know most service jobs are done by minorities.
> Screw you !!! Get your hands dirty and get the job done yourself , if you can’t afford to pay for it .And when you complain about inflation , remember many of you chose to elect an incompetent MAN BABY that screw our economy for failing to deal with a pandemic that created an unnecessary crisis in the last 2 years of his presidency . Presently we are paying for that incompetence until the adults in the room fix all the screw up . The next time you hate , get the best of you , try to use your brain to elect a decent man as a president , being Democrat or Republican but a decent and honest person , instead of a grifter narcissist liar.


Usually "slaves" do not get paid.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> This is what I was posting about a few weeks ago.... that it is rising wages that are the biggest harbinger of a permanent rise in prices across the board. Rising wages is what makes me think that the current inflation rate is not just the temporary bump the authorities are telling us is the case.


I think it is temporary bump in inflation. The bigger bump is still to come.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> I think it is temporary bump in inflation. The bigger bump is still to come.


Agreed. We have been in a steady , consistent inflatory period for 18 years now, but the artificial raising of wages, combined with all the free money given out.


Well a reckoning will be had.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

HPRohit said:


> Chipotle hikes prices to cover the cost of raising wages
> 
> 
> Chipotle Mexican Grill has hiked menu prices by roughly 4% to cover the cost of raising its workers' wages.
> ...


This article.









New McDonald’s In Phoenix Run Entirely By Robots - News Examiner


Phoenix, AZ — After seeing a decline in earnings for the first time in nine years, McDonald’s plans to do something no other restaurant of its kind has ever done before; open a store run entirely by robots. The store is set to open July 4th in Phoenix, Arizona once the state-of-the-art robot...




newsexaminer.net





Is not true. Someone made it up to get some laughs.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/06/10/worker-shortage-raising-wages/
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, there is one party decrying all this "inflation".


Inflation WILL be a problem !

Looks like minimum wage will raise itself.
Along with prices !

Just be thankful they can't get the chips right now to replace everyone with Robots.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

The other POV.









That $5 Uber Ride, $8 Burrito, and the Brutal Costs of “Cheap”


Wage increases and other rising expenses are being “passed on” to the consumer, we’re told. But we’re looking in all the wrong places for the true costs of how we live.




newrepublic.com


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## 8675309 (Feb 18, 2016)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/06/10/worker-shortage-raising-wages/
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, there is one party decrying all this "inflation".


HERESY!

People would rather starve on their couch, than starve while working 40 hours? YOU ARE INSANE, SIR!

Wages have nothing to do with it. It's the damned entitlement mentality, I tell ya! 

Kids these days... grrrr...


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## 8675309 (Feb 18, 2016)

observer said:


> The other POV.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If people who are starving and living like dogs aren't willing to put their damned shoulders to the wheel, that conveys poor character, and a want of boot straps. By God, their backs are veritably CRYING OUT for the lash. 

This country's biggest problem came from doing away with corporal punishment in the work place.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Had this one buried for a long time!


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## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

UberPotomac said:


> White Supremacy at their best .


Go flock yourself


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

a trock resurfaces.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

radikia said:


> Go flock yourself


Is that as far your brain goes ?
I may not sleep tonight !!! Jajajajaja
Behind the keyboard is one thing, in person usually start begging and apologizing .Nothing new to me.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> Usually "slaves" do not get paid.


You are correct, Sir , but if I am not mistaken,they use to get feed and quarters.
With some salaries today , some have to chose between rent and food .

What I will never get is what is wrong with people that are willing to defend a group that definitely do not needs more wealth in exchange of the well being of others . Corporations are racking record profits . This idea that they need to raise costs to pay wages is a LIE . They just got to take a cut on profit by a few percents and allow their employees to earn a living wage with will allow them to buy the same products they sell or manufacturer . These people are brainwashed to blame the people they hate and hey will vote against their interest just to inflict pain on others .


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## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

Haven't found anyone with the stones to tell me that to my face yet , but when I do , you can be sure the response will not be the one I typed on this forum but the real McCoy .


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## 8675309 (Feb 18, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> Agreed. We have been in a steady , consistent inflatory period for 18 years now, but the artificial raising of wages, combined with all the free money given out.
> 
> 
> Well a reckoning will be had.


I think you put the predicates in the wrong order. 

Giving workers a living wage won't break the country. Letting the rich pigs have absolute access to the treasury is another matter/ The insects will bleed us dry and move to a new host.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

I got an 80 cent increase on my pension check. Does that count.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

8675309 said:


> Giving workers a living wage won't break the country.


Are you speaking of gig work, or a real job?

Can you tell me, if a real W2 job, at what experience must one have to get a 'living' wage? I'd think if you have no experience, no skills, little work time, you get paid exactly what you are worth. Why should anyone get more because of the decisions they made that got them to having no marketable skills? 

Or are we speaking of UBI for slackers?


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

SHalester said:


> Are you speaking of gig work, or a real job?
> 
> Can you tell me, if a real W2 job, at what experience must one have to get a 'living' wage? I'd think if you have no experience, no skills, little work time, you get paid exactly what you are worth. Why should anyone get more because of the decisions they made that got them to having no marketable skills?
> 
> Or are we speaking of UBI for slackers?


Yes, the do deserve a living wage . If they are useless FIRED THEM . If employers keep them is because they have some use . Every employee that works 40 hours a week should get Paid a living wage . Period . No but , no if . Period .
Slavery has been abolish long time ago , even that many did not got the memo .


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> You are correct, Sir , but if I am not mistaken,they use to get feed and quarters.
> With some salaries today , some have to chose between rent and food .
> 
> What I will never get is what is wrong with people that are willing to defend a group that definitely do not needs more wealth in exchange of the well being of others . Corporations are racking record profits . This idea that they need to raise costs to pay wages is a LIE . They just got to take a cut on profit by a few percents and allow their employees to earn a living wage with will allow them to buy the same products they sell or manufacturer . These people are brainwashed to blame the people they hate and hey will vote against their interest just to inflict pain on others .


Folks don't seem to understand that the entire fiduciary duty of a publicly traded corporation is to maximize shareholder value - this means that they will try to raise prices to as high as they can while keeping costs (mostly labor) as low as they can, no matter what is going on in the broader economy. The Army of Labor treats itself similarly (although the toil and nastiness of the job is taken into account), always seeking the most pay, again regardless of the broader economy.

I have a friend who used to be a family-owned retail paper company (i.e., serving printers & businesses), and he said that the way to do it is to wait until there is some shock in the paper market so that higher prices can be quickly implemented, but after the shock is over, and things return to normal, only gradually reduce the prices, pocketing the difference. This makes sense, as ultimately, a check on a firm's profitability only comes around when an established competitor decides to start a price war, or the profitability environment is so good that new sellers enter the market.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> Folks don't seem to understand that the entire fiduciary duty of a publicly traded corporation is to maximize shareholder value - this means that they will try to raise prices to as high as they can while keeping costs (mostly labor) as low as they can, no matter what is going on in the broader economy. The Army of Labor treats itself similarly (although the toil and nastiness of the job is taken into account), always seeking the most pay, again regardless of the broader economy.
> 
> I have a friend who used to be a family-owned retail paper company (i.e., serving printers & businesses), and he said that the way to do it is to wait until there is some shock in the paper market so that higher prices can be quickly implemented, but after the shock is over, and things return to normal, only gradually reduce the prices, pocketing the difference. This makes sense, as ultimately, a check on a firm's profitability only comes around when an established competitor decides to start a price war, or the profitability environment is so good that new sellers enter the market.


And employees have a fiduciary responsability to eat and provide for their family . What is in unconscisble is these people hhat worked in their life , do not get thst . If a company depend on a low wage employeee, the business should not be viable. Thee is no right to make a profit. You either capable or not . There is a reason we have labor unions . Business have to be profitable, of course. But they have to pay a livable wage as a baseline . And don’t tell me employees don’t want to work . If they are useles fire them , because they do not add anything g to the company but if they do , they deserve a livable wage . How do you determine that . At minimum they have to afford to buy the products or service they manufactured .


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> And employees have a fiduciary responsability to eat and provide for their family . What is in unconscisble is these people hhat worked in their life , do not get thst . If a company depend on a low wage employeee, the business should not be viable. Thee is no right to make a profit. You either capable or not . There is a reason we have labor unions . Business have to be profitable, of course. But they have to pay a livable wage as a baseline . And don’t tell me employees don’t want to work . If they are useles fire them , because they do not add anything g to the company but if they do , they deserve a livable wage . How do you determine that . At minimum they have to afford to buy the products or service they manufactured .


Oh, I agree with you; I'm just saying the equity owners have just as much right to optimize their profit as employees optimizing their wage, which is essentially their profit. The way to address this is a combination of minimum wage and Guaranteed Income, so as to make it so that folks aren't "wage slaves" that have to take something.


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## 8675309 (Feb 18, 2016)

SHalester said:


> Are you speaking of gig work, or a real job?
> 
> Can you tell me, if a real W2 job, at what experience must one have to get a 'living' wage? I'd think if you have no experience, no skills, little work time, you get paid exactly what you are worth. Why should anyone get more because of the decisions they made that got them to having no marketable skills?
> 
> Or are we speaking of UBI for slackers?


This ^ is a religious utterance - prescriptive. My world view is experience based - DEscritive. 

You are repeating rote talking points, unexamined. I can get this quality of thinking from bumper stickers. When I was a kid in the 60s, a fellow with an entry level job made enough to buy a crappy car and rent an apartment. ONE STEP up the ladder and he could raise a family - with a stay at home wife. 

When I was a young man in the 70s, I took an entry level production job and was making ten bucks an hour. 400 a week was a good bit of money in the Carter years. These kids today are STILL making that money - possibly less. But everything costs 3 to 5 times more. Meanwhile, American workers are MORE productive than ever. 

Is it your thesis that the gains in productivity that we have made as a nation belong exclusively to the rentier class, to the "inside" money boys who never turn an honest lick? Because that is precisely where our living wage is going - accompanied by a giant sucking sound. 

You sound like a fellow whose daddy gave him golden boot straps. Or maybe a fellow who is so dumb that he's looking DOWN the ladder for his antagonists. A tip for you: That is the wrong direction.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> Folks don't seem to understand that the entire fiduciary duty of a publicly traded corporation is to maximize shareholder value - this means that they will try to raise prices to as high as they can while keeping costs (mostly labor) as low as they can, no matter what is going on in the broader economy. The Army of Labor treats itself similarly (although the toil and nastiness of the job is taken into account), always seeking the most pay, again regardless of the broader economy.
> 
> I have a friend who used to be a family-owned retail paper company (i.e., serving printers & businesses), and he said that the way to do it is to wait until there is some shock in the paper market so that higher prices can be quickly implemented, but after the shock is over, and things return to normal, only gradually reduce the prices, pocketing the difference. This makes sense, as ultimately, a check on a firm's profitability only comes around when an established competitor decides to start a price war, or the profitability environment is so good that new sellers enter the market.





https://news.yahoo.com/news/news/chipotle-customers-complaining-receiving-tiny-202754692.html


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

8675309 said:


> You sound like a fellow whose daddy gave him golden boot straps.


I understand as a trock you don't read many older posts here. Had you done that, you would see you are polar opposite of being correct. Embarrassed much?

The 'stats' you posted 'might' work in a state with very very low cost of living. Maybe. Or maybe 4-6 decades ago. You are out of touch by a large factor.

but still, what I posted remains. How does one get a 'living' wage if they have no higher education, no skills, no experience, no resume? Just by being a warm body? Even you know it takes more than that. 

Want higher, decent wages: get some schooling; get some skills; get a bunch of experience; fill out that resume. Otherwise, you get very close to what one is worth working ONLY entry level jobs and never getting promoted up the chain. 

So, we are back to UBI for slackers.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

UberPotomac said:


> Every employee that works 40 hours a week should get Paid a living wage .


ok, prepare to have your skirt blown upward: I don't agree. You get paid what your schooling, experience and previous work experience details + current time and skills at whatever position you are in. That's it.

It is up to YOU to have right amount of the requirements to get the pay level you require. 

You don't get a 'higher' wage just for being a warm body. Sorry, not sorry at all. 🤷‍♂️


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

SHalester said:


> ok, prepare to have your skirt blown upward: I don't agree. You get paid what your schooling, experience and previous work experience details + current time and skills at whatever position you are in. That's it.
> 
> It is up to YOU to have right amount of the requirements to get the pay level you require.
> 
> You don't get a 'higher' wage just for being a warm body. Sorry, not sorry at all. 🤷‍♂️


"You don't get a 'higher' wage just for being a warm body."

I beg to differ here. I'm seeing kids fresh out of high school starting out at 17 an hour.

Employers are getting desperate.

Will it continue? Who knows.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

SHalester said:


> ok, prepare to have your skirt blown upward: I don't agree. You get paid what your schooling, experience and previous work experience details + current time and skills at whatever position you are in. That's it.
> 
> It is up to YOU to have right amount of the requirements to get the pay level you require.
> 
> You don't get a 'higher' wage just for being a warm body. Sorry, not sorry at all. 🤷‍♂️


Do I sense some deflection there?
Maybe it time to change that “ because I don’t have it , nobody can “ mentality and remember we suppose to leave a better country to the next generations . IS call PROGRESS


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

UberPotomac said:


> Do I sense some deflection there?


deflecting from what? Are you trying to assume something there? but failed? Spit it out. 

I had a 'living' wage for decades. I went to college. Had job experience. Have a resume. And while working kept increasing my skill set(s) and was properly rewarded with raises along the 30+ year career. 

You seem to want something just 'because'. Minimum wage is for minimum skills and experience. How is that anybody fault but the workers'? 

Deflect that.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

observer said:


> I beg to differ here. I'm seeing kids fresh out of high school starting out at 17 an hour.


I think you and I can agree (just this once) what is happening NOW is an exception. With FED cheese messing up the process 'workers' have become a bit spoiled. But yes, those hospitality positions begging for workers really do have to up their wages to get the 'spoiled' ones off their arses and go back to work. 

AND, really, $17 an hour? That's a living wage? Where, Alaska?


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

SHalester said:


> I think you and I can agree (just this once) what is happening NOW is an exception. With FED cheese messing up the process 'workers' have become a bit spoiled. But yes, those hospitality positions begging for workers really do have to up their wages to get the 'spoiled' ones off their arses and go back to work.
> 
> AND, really, $17 an hour? That's a living wage? Where, Alaska?


I never said it was a living wage. I just said that your statement "You don't get a 'higher' wage just for being a warm body." Isn't necessarily true at the moment.

I really think people are fed up with low wages and minimum hours, higher wages are here to stay.

Those part time jobs are over. Employers will need to hire employees full time.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

SHalester said:


> deflecting from what? Are you trying to assume something there? but failed? Spit it out.
> 
> I had a 'living' wage for decades. I went to college. Had job experience. Have a resume. And while working kept increasing my skill set(s) and was properly rewarded with raises along the 30+ year career.
> 
> ...


Are t you the one “assuming” here ? Show me where I said “I need “ or “I want “.
Looks to me that you “were entitled “ to prosper but anyone else’s have to know their place .
Did you ever thought that if employers are complaining they cannot get workers is because that workers have a skill is in high demand ?
If they were so useless as you assume they are , why are so much need for them ? If you think about it , employees are doing exactly what you describe it , marketing their skills and try to get better pay . Why is that so bad for them but it was OK for you ? But of course , most low wage workers are minorities, and look like , I’m your mind , same rules don’t apply .Fortunately , they do, like it or not .Maybe it is time for you to cut your grass, fix your car, prepare you food and clean your place yourself if you cannot afford someone to do it. I think that is what some of you are more upset about .
By the way , I been earning a higher than “living wage”for more than 40 years with a few exceptions .
Is enough deflection for you ? JajajJa


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

UberPotomac said:


> Looks to me that you “were entitled “ to prosper but anyone else’s have to know their place .


the exact opposite. You must rush through reading. You seem to feel everybody 'deserves' a living wage, but your opinion chokes on how one achieves that goal. A warm body alone does not qualify. THAT is my opinion.

Deflect that with your blither and yes I've worked longer than you and then I got to retire.

Kept it short, since that is your attention span limit.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

SHalester said:


> the exact opposite. You must rush through reading. You seem to feel everybody 'deserves' a living wage, but your opinion chokes on how one achieves that goal. A warm body alone does not qualify. THAT is my opinion.
> 
> Deflect that with your blither and yes I've worked longer than you and then I got to retire.
> 
> Kept it short, since that is your attention span limit.


I get it now. You are the “ warm body” now and other has to sacrifice for you to live confortable.Good luck with that .
People want to get paid for their labor , same as you wanted to get paid when you worked . It is a not that difficult to understand if you put aside the “ slavery” mentality


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

UberPotomac said:


> You are the “ warm body” now and other shas to sacrifice for you to live confortable .


You can't even defend your opinion that everybody 'deserves' a living wage just because they ask for it. Noted.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

SHalester said:


> You can't even defend your opinion that everybody 'deserves' a living wage just because they ask for it. Noted.


They do t ask , they are willing to work for it.
It seems they are not willing to work for “ less wages”.
What it is embarrassing of this discussion is a worker trying to put down another workers just because they fight for better wages .


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> They do t ask , they are willing to work for it.
> It seems they are not willing to work for “ less wages”.
> What it is embarrassing of this discussion is a worker trying to put down another workers just because they fight for better wages .


A question for you ( but 1st the backstory):

My 80 year old mother, who lives with me and whom I try to take care of, has Alzheimer's and needs someone around her 24 hours a day. 

I need to go to work to pay for rent and for food for the 2 of us. I am away from home roughly 60 hours per week to go to work. I need to hire a nurse/personal assistant to take care of my mother when I am not at home. I can only afford to pay approximately $600 for those 60 hours, which works out to $10/hour. However I have to hire 2 separate people, one working 40 hours, and the other working 20 hours, because that works out the best for the 2 people that I hired. (Neither one of them can devote the whole 60 hours to taking care of my mother.)

Now note: neither 'employee' makes what you would call a 'living wage'. Here in Las Vegas I would estimate that it costs a minimum of $500/week to live, and that would only cover food, rent, toiletries and cheap health insurance. The one working 40 hours per week only makes $400, which is not a 'living wage'. 

However, the 4 people involved in the arrangement (my mother, my 2 workers and me) are quite happy with things. Both of my employees are former stay-at-home moms, and neither one of them is dependent on the money that I pay them. In fact both of them said that they would accept less pay because they felt good that they were doing something extremely beneficial and the money wasn't that important, but I refused to go lower because I greatly appreciate them and decided that I would pay them the absolute most that I possibly could.

According to your numerous posts on the topic, as far as you are concerned, this arrangement is totally unacceptable. You evidently would insist that I pay what you would deem to be a 'living wage', even though there is no more money to be paid. I suppose according to you I am a white (which I am) greedy, capitalistic pig slave owner exploiting people of color (both of my employees are Mexican American), even though they work for me out of their own free will.

End of story. Now my question:

What would you have me do? Should I fire both of them because I can't afford one more penny to pay them? (I can't even afford to pay them what I do now. I am going into debt as we speak.) Then, in order to please you, should I put my mother in a shelter since you will not permit me to pay someone less than a 'living wage' to care for her? Why are you so callous? Where do you get off telling other people what types of work arrangements they must have just so as to conform to your distorted view of fairness?

Get over yourself. Your oversized ego is telling you that you understand things that you are clueless about. And learn to mind your own business. Not everyone is a victim, even if you pretend that they are.

When it comes to fair wages, one size definitely does not fit all.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> A question for you ( but 1st the backstory):
> 
> My 80 year old mother, who lives with me and whom I try to take care of, has Alzheimer's and needs someone around her 24 hours a day.
> 
> ...


First of all , let’s leave your mother aside. Her illness is very difficult and I know how hard is on the people that care for therm.
Now, If you capable to step out of your narcissistic bubble , you’ll understand that legislations are crafted for the average person , not for a particular situation .I’ll be straight to the point . If you cannot afford to pay the going wage for a nurse, you may consider doing the work yourself instead of expecting others to carry YOUR weigh , just because you cannot afford it .Many people do and they manage, with the help of friends and family.
In this case , if what you said is accurate and the parties are fine be with the arrangement , what is the issue? You must appreciate that you found two people willing to help , even without the proper compensation .
My question to you is: Are you willing to work for 10 dollars an hour just because someone else need of your skills and can not afford to pay your skill set going wage ? Why is OK to underpaid others but never apply to the ones that don’t support living wages? Maybe you should follow the advice of the ones against a living wage and get better skills if you want to afford your lifestyle.Then , you’ll be able to afford the help, and they will be earning a wage more in line with THEIR skill set. Everyone benefits , not just you .


----------



## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> First of all , let’s leave your mother aside. Her illness is very difficult and I know how hard is on the people that care for therm.
> Now, If you capable to step out of your narcissistic bubble , you’ll understand that legislations are crafted for the average person , not for a particular situation .I’ll be straight to the point . If you cannot afford to pay the going wage for a nurse, you may consider doing the work yourself instead of expecting others to carry YOUR weigh , just because you cannot afford it .Many people do and they manage, with the help of friends and family.
> In this case , if what you said is accurate and the parties are fine be with the arrangement , what is the issue? You must appreciate that you found two people willing to help , even without the proper compensation .
> My question to you is: Are you willing to work for 10 dollars an hour just because someone else need of your skills and can not afford to pay your skill set going wage ? Why is OK to underpaid others but never apply to the ones that don’t support living wages? Maybe you should follow the advice of the ones against a living wage and get better skills if you want to afford your lifestyle.Then , you’ll be able to afford the help, and they will be earning a wage more in line with THEIR skill set. Everyone benefits , not just you .


Or maybe you should simply mind your own business and stop thinking that the whole world has to abide by your rules. You're a bully that wants to be a dictator. You want to enforce your will on others. Shame on you.

What's pathetic about you is that you pretend that you're fighting for social justice by increasing lots of people's wages, but you couldn't care less about my plight. Instead you dare to tell me to rearrange my life to make you happy, but you have zero concern for my happiness, my mother's happiness, nor the happiness of my 2 employees that are quite content with the situation. You are not a good person.

P.s. And concerning your lecture to me that I should get 'better skills' so that I can make more money, where exactly am I supposed to find the time to acquire these skills? Also, why not give your 'better skills' lecture to the people that you pretend to be concerned about, namely the ones that right now don't have the ability to make what you would call a 'living wage'? 

You are completely illogical and a hypocrite. (I doubt that you even have the mental capacity to understand what I'm saying.) You've simply decided to demonize a very large group of people in the country, namely employers that can't afford to pay what YOU think that they should. I'm sure glad you're not in power.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> Or maybe you should simply mind your own business and stop thinking that the whole world has to abide by your rules. You're a bully that wants to be a dictator. You want to enforce your will on others. Shame on you.
> 
> What's pathetic about you is that you pretend that you're fighting for social justice by increasing lots of people's wages, but you couldn't care less about my plight. Instead you dare to tell me to rearrange my life to make you happy, but you have zero concern for my happiness, my mother's happiness, nor the happiness of my 2 employees that are quite content with the situation. You are not a good person.
> 
> ...


Looks like you never got the memo that “ slavery “ es abolished. I recognized this is something extremely hard to reckon. The world does not revolve around YOUR NEEDS. Other don’t have the obligation to solve YOUR problems .
I won’t even respond to the name calling .
The question stand , why would you ask others to do what you are not willing to do? What is so special about you ? Let me iluminate you on a concept that you seem not to understand. Your tendency to think that only YOUR opinion matter,does not make you right , it only make you look ARROGANT .Did you ever thought that you cannot afford the help because YOU are the one underpaid , or may be you skills are not in demand anymore.
Do you ever hear the term “ white supremacy “?
They are people that believe they are better then anyone else and they deserve a prominent position just for their race . If you care to educate yourself , you’ll understand how others perceived your comments outside your bubble.
Acordingly to you , others should sacrifice and work a low wage just because your skills do not allow you to earn enough to afford your needs .
Do not use your mother as an excuse to blame anyone else’s . You are the only one responsible here.
That employers that you mention, if they can not afford pay a living wage,they do not have a viable business . They can choose to do the work themselves , until they can afford others to do it . There is no right to have a business and have a profit. No business should be built in the back of people that just trying to make a living. 
And no matter how simpathetic we can be for your situation , reality stand . Why should you expect others to do what you are not willing to do ?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

radikia said:


> FAKE news ! There are plenty businesses offering low end jobs paying $15/hr that still have worker shortages and will continue to have shortages until September . Why September do you ask ? Because that's when the enhanced unemployment benefits run out . I wonder who's duck AOC had to suck to get this story written ?



sucking ducks solves problems?? who knew?


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> Looks like you never got the memo that “ slavery “ es abolished. I recognized this is something extremely hard to reckon. The world does not revolve around YOUR NEEDS. Other don’t have the obligation to solve YOUR problems .
> I won’t even respond to the name calling .
> The question stand , why would you ask others to do what you are not willing to do? What is so special about you ? Let me iluminate you on a concept that you seem not to understand. Your tendency to think that only YOUR opinion matter,does not make you right , it only make you look ARROGANT .Did you ever thought that you cannot afford the help because YOU are the one underpaid , or may be you skills are not in demand anymore.
> Do you ever hear the term “ white supremacy “?
> ...


You're clearly a racist idiot with an agenda. I feel sorry for you, and I feel worse for anyone that you deal with. 

By the way, are you still learning how to read, or is it the comprehension part that you struggle with? 

You have made determinations about me because of my race. Where in the f..k did you come up with that? (Admittedly I knew that I could trigger your hatred of white people plus your insistence on making this about slavery by telling you that I am white. That was easy. It's very simple to manipulate a racist like you.)

The bottom line is that YOU want to be a slave master by forcing others to live their lifes according to your rules. You act like you despise exactly what you have become. It must be very difficult to live with yourself.

Do you know any white people personally, or did you learn your hatred from that racist Don Lemon on CNN?

Should I fire the 2 Mexican American women that work for me because I can't possibly pay them any more than I do now? Are you also racist against Mexicans? 

Have you ever in your life had to take responsibility for any of the crap that you say, or are you just an anonymous, hatefilled coward?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

SHalester said:


> Are you speaking of gig work, or a real job?
> 
> Can you tell me, if a real W2 job, at what experience must one have to get a 'living' wage? I'd think if you have no experience, no skills, little work time, you get paid exactly what you are worth. Why should anyone get more because of the decisions they made that got them to having no marketable skills?
> 
> Or are we speaking of UBI for slackers?



My assumption is that if someone is hired , they are important to the success of the enterprise whatever their skills. and they should be paid a living wage. If they are not paid a living wage they will find a way to live and that probably means food stamps or welfare

You may think its ok for government to subsidize business in this way...I dont


UBI would not be just for slackers. Or dont you know the meaning of the word universal. I have been a fan of UBI but I am moving to adding a job guarantee


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> You're clearly a racist idiot with an agenda. I feel sorry for you, and I feel worse for anyone that you deal with. Gth.


Jajajajs . Blame others instead to look at the mirror . If you bother, you’ll see there everything you accused others . I get what you are angry with the world . Facts are often hard to reckon.
And my agenda is better the life of all , not just cater to your needs because you think you are special . “ Racist”? Like someone that want others to sacrifice just because can sustain their own lifestyle ? That kind of “ racism”? . At least I can deal with my OWN problems instead of passing the buck you others . Sound familiar?
Everyone has to be responsible, while you ask others to do, what you are not willing, or capable to do. The new kind of Conservative .


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

oldfart said:


> sucking ducks solves problems?? who knew?
> 
> View attachment 600367


I must admit that, even though I don't agree with you on much, that was really funny.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> Jajajajs . Blame others instead to look at the mirror . If you bother, you’ll see there everything you accused others . I get what you are angry with the world . Facts are often hard to reckon.
> And my agenda is better the life of all , not just cater to your needs because you think you are special . “ Racist”? Like someone that want others to sacrifice just because can sustain their own lifestyle ? That kind of “ racism”? . At least I can deal with my OWN problems instead of passing the buck you others . Sound familiar?
> Everyone has to be responsible, while you ask others to do, what you are not willing, or capable to do. The new kind of Conservative .


Ok. I give up. Explain to me how it is racist to hire 2 people for wages that they are happy to receive and that don't even need the money anyway. I am the one sacrificing, not them.

And unhappy with the world? Where do you come up with this stuff? But just to make sure that your little white-hating racist brain can understand, I am very happy and not at all angry with the world. I am unhappy, however, that bad people like you are allowed to have a voice. But I guess that's what you get with the 1st amendment. (An amendment is an add-on to the constitution. I wasn't sure if you knew since you certainly don't know much.)


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## BestInDaWest (Apr 8, 2021)

jobs that pay 15,16,17 are a joke....you cant pay bills much less save anything while inflation is cancelling out the extra money. economics is a game....and most people dont have a clue


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Fischer Fan said:


> A question for you ( but 1st the backstory):
> 
> My 80 year old mother, who lives with me and whom I try to take care of, has Alzheimer's and needs someone around her 24 hours a day.
> 
> ...


I could be insensitive and downright mean like so many on this forum and say that

"You and your mother obviously made some bad choices in your life" to find yourselves in this position like this. Your mother should have saved more, or had more kids to share the burden, Or purchased insurance that would take care of her now. Or knowing that this day might come, maybe you should have, saved more, or improved your skills to get a better paying job .

Ive driven assisted living care workers from one residence to another to work a second shift so that they can make the money they need to live their lives, So its not just you and your mother that have to or are able to pay crap for care workers

You are doing what you have to do. You have found two people that dont need the money to help care for your mother.. Lucky you. And good for you you are paying everything you can
My argument is that you and your mother and your two employees sholdnt have to do things in this way ie you shouldnt have to get lucky



Perhaps if we could see this as a societal problem, the government would step in with a guaranteed basic income and/or a job guarantee


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

oldfart said:


> I could be insensitive and downright mean like so many on this forum and say that
> 
> "You and your mother obviously made some bad choices in your life" to find yourselves in this position like this. Your mother should have saved more, or had more kids to share the burden, Or purchased insurance that would take care of her now. Or knowing that this day might come, maybe you should have, saved more, or improved your skills to get a better paying job .
> 
> ...


Well, you did say it, so no, you can't claim to be a nice guy that DIDN'T say it. It doesn't work that way. And since you have no clue on how I ended up this way then I would suggest that you keep your judgmental comments to yourself. But since we are all anonymous here then I understand that you can say whatever you want without repercussions. ( I do it all the time here.) But now that you have walked down that path in this thread don't pretend that we can now have a serious discussion. You killed that hope.

P.s. I see that you got a 'like' by one of the most racist people on this forum, so I suppose that your mean-spirited vile wasn't a waste of time after all!


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Fischer Fan said:


> Welm, you did say it, do no, you can't claim to be a nice guy that DIDN'T day it.



Sorry I upset you, I think I understand what you are trying to say, but You were so upset that you posted before proof reading

when, not welm and say not day, right?

Listen, I felt the same way when I was criticized for the bad choices I must have made in my life, that now I have to work at age 75 and intend to work until Im 80 and beyond.

What I was trying to say here is that that you are doing the best that you can, and you got lucky. I just dont think you should have to depend on luck. I think we are in a position as a society to help with the care of of the people that need care


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

sorry, duplicate message... I cant find a delete button


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> Ok. I give up. Explain to me how it is racist to hire 2 people for wages that they are happy to receive and that don't even need the money anyway. I am the one sacrificing, not them.
> 
> And unhappy with the world? Where do you come up with this stuff? But just to make sure that your little white-hating racist brain can understand, I am very happy and not at all angry with the world. I am unhappy, however, that bad people like you are allowed to have a voice. But I guess that's what you get with the 1st amendment. (An amendment is an add-on to the constitution. I wasn't sure if you knew since you certainly don't know much.)


If you bother to read my comments , you ll see that I expressed sympathy on your situation and also noted that , if the persons you hired seem to be happy with the arraignment, I did not see an issue.
But instead you choose to attack and call me names because I disagree with you .
Like the other poster said , I may choose the path to tell you

"You and your mother obviously made some bad choices in your life" to find yourselves in this position like this. Your mother should have saved more, or had more kids to share the burden, Or purchased insurance that would take care of her now. Or knowing that this day might come, maybe you should have, saved more, or improved your skills to get a better paying job

But I didn’t , I know how hard is to plan for old age no we usually struggle with the present .

Instead to vent your anger on people that try to see your situation on an objective lens , you should try to listen and join them , to try TOGHETER , to improve EVERYONES life and not only yours. Goverment is not great to solve all problems but some , need to be table as a community issue instead of a personal issue.
With Condevstuves there is always a double standard . The expect people to take care of themselves until they need help to take care of themselves and expect people to sacrifice serving their needs . Most people can se thru that one and on a time are knowledge is proven to achieve success more that just own things, they will find their own ways to get ahead .


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> Well, you did say it, so no, you can't claim to be a nice guy that DIDN'T say it. It doesn't work that way. And since you have no clue on how I ended up this way then I would suggest that you keep your judgmental comments to yourself. But since we are all anonymous here then I understand that you can say whatever you want without repercussions. ( I do it all the time here.) But now that you have walked down that path in this thread don't pretend that we can now have a serious discussion. You killed that hope.
> 
> P.s. I see that you got a 'like' by one of the most racist people on this forum, so I suppose that your mean-spirited vile wasn't a waste of time after all!


Poor baby ,your arian race is under attack, just because you found a couple of comments disagreeing with your demanded privilege ?
Time to play the victim card just because we expect you to live by the same rules then anyone elses.?
Cry me a River!!!! Jajajaja


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

oldfart said:


> sorry, duplicate message... I cant find a delete button


I could call you an idiot like others on this forum would because you couldn't find the delete button but...

What do you do, wait for typos and then immediately pounce? I guess if that is what fulfills you. I usually write my reply, post it and then soon go back and proofread it, but it looks like you were Johnny-on-the-spot and criticized me immediately. Well good for you, I guess.

I thought that they did away with the delete button. I think you can wipe out all but 1 character of the message you posted and that's it.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> I could call you an idiot like others on this forum would because you couldn't find the delete button but...
> 
> What do you do, wait for typos and then immediately pounce? I guess if that what fulfills you. I usually write my reply, post it and then soon go back and proofread it, but it looks like you were Johnny-on-the-spot and criticized me immediately. Well good for you, I guess.
> 
> I thought that they did away with the delete button. I think you can wipe out all but 1 character of the message you posted and that's it.


Fortunately there is still a feature to IGNORE you . If I want drama, I can always find a TELENOVELA.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> Poor baby ,your arian race is under attack, just because you found a couple of comments disagreeing with your demanded privilege ?
> Time to play the victim card just because we expect you to live by the same rules then anyone elses.?
> Cry me a River!!!! Jajajaja


Just when I thought you weren't totally hopeless I see you went and plagiarized oldfart in your last post. I see that you are back to your old racist ways.

My Arian race and my demanded privilege. Right. My employees have much better lifes than I do, but I'm the bad guy. Right.

You're not a decent person, so I don't want to talk to you anymore. You hate white people. You buy into way too much liberal crap, specifically your victimhood. You care about nobody but yourself. 

So guess what? You win. I won't be responding to you anymore. Happy now? You win!

P.s. My final parting question to you: why di you feel compelled to reply to comments that I made to oldfart? Don't you think that he is capable to speak for himself? Or is this just part of your playbook, that you need to be in control of everything everywhere?


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Dropped off a regular in an industrial area of my city, were a massive grocery company that has been here for decades had this huge sign outside their 4 block long warehouse.......

*$20 an hour to start plus benefits and bonuses !!! Start tomorrow, enter at at door #1 and apply NOW !!!*

Translation: if you have a pulse and can fog a mirror, you're hired tomorrow. FWIW our minimum wage is about $13 at present.

This company can provide decades long employment and advancement. They are not going anywhere, as we all need to eat. Yet they cannot get workers.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> Just when I thought you weren't totally hopeless when you plagiarized oldfart in your last post I see that you are back to your old racist ways.
> 
> My Arian race and my demanded privilege. Right. My employees have much better lifes than I do, but I'm the bad guy. Right.
> 
> ...


Unlike you, I don’t hate anyone . Just bother me people that feel entitled to the time of anyone around them or THEIR needs came first.
But how can you understand that when expect people to serve you ? If your employers live better than you , then may be have skills that you don’t. Lookd to me it al come down to you , not that you’ll ever understand . Personal responsibility not your thing.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

ANT 7 said:


> Dropped off a regular in an industrial area of my city, were a massive grocery company that has been here for decades had this huge sign outside their 4 block long warehouse.......
> 
> *$20 an hour to start plus benefits and bonuses !!! Start tomorrow, enter at at door #1 and apply NOW !!!*
> 
> ...


Where do you live?


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

ANT 7 said:


> Dropped off a regular in an industrial area of my city, were a massive grocery company that has been here for decades had this huge sign outside their 4 block long warehouse.......
> 
> *$20 an hour to start plus benefits and bonuses !!! Start tomorrow, enter at at door #1 and apply NOW !!!*
> 
> ...


I can not comment on you particular company .
I ve seeing that signs , and it is not that simple 
Not everyone gets hired . There is a process and they are looking for particular skills .


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

It was a food warehouse with something like 20 semi-trailer loading docks. It's probably 90% manual labor. You don't need any particular skills I'd imagine.

I'm in Alberta, up here in Kanaduh, eh !! Just north of Montana.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

ANT 7 said:


> It was a food warehouse with something like 20 semi-traile loading docks. It's probably 90% manual labor. You don't need any particular skills I'd imagine.
> 
> I'm in Alberta, up here in Kanaduh, eh !! Just north of Montana.


Food warehouse on COVID? That explains .
They aren’t many UBER drivers at 30-40 hr on Covid .


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

ANT 7 said:


> It was a food warehouse with something like 20 semi-traile loading docks. It's probably 90% manual labor. You don't need any particular skills I'd imagine.
> 
> I'm in Alberta, up here in Kanaduh, eh !! Just north of Montana.


I don't know how it is in Canada, but here in the US a lot of people make more money from unemployment than they would from working (certainly not $20/hour, though). The other problem is that many people don't feel safe to go back to work because of the virus, and many here have very strong moral/ethical objections to the vaccines, so I'm not too sure what those people can do. Fortunately when the unemployment runs out in September and they are forced to go back to work the virus might have abated sufficiently.


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## BestInDaWest (Apr 8, 2021)

Fischer Fan said:


> A question for you ( but 1st the backstory):
> 
> My 80 year old mother, who lives with me and whom I try to take care of, has Alzheimer's and needs someone around her 24 hours a day.
> 
> ...


here's my question ,why do you feel it's necessary to explain anything to anyone on this board? just do what you have to...the end


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

BestInDaWest said:


> here's my question ,why do you feel it's necessary to explain anything to anyone on this board? just do what you have to...the end


You missing the point . Two words “victim” and “ deflection”


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## BestInDaWest (Apr 8, 2021)

people spend a lot of time online trying to be right or defend their case,when in reality it's a waste of time,just handle your business. The point is there is no point.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

BestInDaWest said:


> people spend a lot of time online trying to be right or defend their case,when in reality it's a waste of time,just handle your business. The point is there is no point.


If you don't like it, then don't engage.

It's just a game here. I don't even mean most of the things I say.

Nobody changes anyone else's mind. Most of us think that we know everything and that everyone else is clueless. We're mostly just trying to prove to everyone else how clever we are. We usually fail, probably because we're really not that clever after all. 

It's a good way to pass time. 

P.s. I am specifically referring to the threads that are mostly political in nature. Most of us don't hijack non-political threads with this nonsense. We used to before the rules changed. Not long ago just about every thread ended up being about Trump. But those were the good old days.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> I don't know how it is in Canada, but here in the US a lot of people make more money from unemployment than they would from working (certainly not $20/hour, though). The other problem is that many people don't feel safe to go back to work because of the virus, and many here have very strong moral/ethical objections to the vaccines, so I'm not too sure what those people can do. Fortunately when the unemployment runs out in September and they are forced to go back to work the virus might have abated sufficiently.


Fortunately for who? Or maybe it is anothe way to say “ keep them hungry and poor , that way they must be grateful with what WE want to pay”
And Conservatives wonder why people are finding new ways to make a living without put up with tyrants .


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Wooow

“ It's just a game here. I don't even mean most of the things I say.”
Speaking for yourself :“we're really not that clever after all.”

I am lost of words .You do not need any reply . Doing a great job embarrassing yourself.


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## BestInDaWest (Apr 8, 2021)

UberPotomac said:


> Wooow
> 
> “ It's just a game here. I don't even mean most of the things I say.”
> 
> I am lost of words .


i rest my case lol


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## BestInDaWest (Apr 8, 2021)

Fischer Fan said:


> If you don't like it


you're right i dont like it. what does engaging have to do with pointing out you are a clown in need of reassurement?


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## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

oldfart said:


> sucking ducks solves problems?? who knew?
> 
> View attachment 600367


Absolutely ! Got Kameltoe Harris into the White House .


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

BestInDaWest said:


> i rest my case lol


Be kind. Grammar and spelling aren't his strong suits. He uses this forum to vent. Probably it's better for him to take out his anger on me, whom he'll never encounter in person, then to make his speeches at home, where there might be serious repercussions. I'm thinking that he probably means well, but he alienates too many people when attempting to deliver his message.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

BestInDaWest said:


> you're right i dont like it. what does engaging have to do with pointing out you are a clown in need of reassurement?


If you're calling me a clown, then please explain, because I am pretty sure that you have no idea what you are talking about.

And where do you get off telling us what we should and shouldn't do? You've been in the forum for just a couple of months, and you're already trying to lay down the rules. What an ego!


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

UberPotomac said:


> Food warehouse on COVID? That explains .
> They aren’t many UBER drivers at 30-40 hr on Covid .


We're going to hit 70% of first doses this week in our province, and we're at about 25% on the second doses. Our cases (100-200 a day) and hospitalizations in the ICU (<100) are minimal at best. We've got a 4.6MM population in our region.

In 2 weeks we're fully reopened. no masks, etc. Depends on your market.

You make about $2K a month net on cheese here, and $20 an hour pays about a net income of $2,300 a month for work. That's a problem..........


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

oldfart said:


> My assumption is that if someone is hired , they are important to the success of the enterprise whatever their skills. and they should be paid a living wage. If they are not paid a living wage they will find a way to live and that probably means food stamps or welfare
> 
> You may think its ok for government to subsidize business in this way...I dont
> 
> ...


Maybe you should define exactly what a 'living wage' is. Should you be guaranteed to make that living wage in just 40 hours? If so, why? I drove a taxi for at least 30 years of my life, and just about every cab driver, myself included, worked approximately 60 hours/week to make a living. And I never complained--- that was the nature of the job, and I agreed to do it. So if a person can't make a living working 40 hours/week then they can simply go get a part time job until they have enough to live on. If they get more skills down the road then maybe they can work less and still survive. But it doesn't seem right to me to enable their laziness because someone has arbitrarily decided that 40 hours is the correct number. I was able to work more hours than 40, so they could also.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I too have probably worked between 50-60 hours a week for most of my adult life as well.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

If the minimum wage is $13 an hour and the market wage is $17, the minimum wage is irrelevant, it might as well be eliminated. If the minimum wage is $17 and the market wage is $13, harm is done to the economy, business owners, consumers, and low income earners. In fact, low income earners are hurt the worst due to loss of hours worked and loss of jobs. Consumers are hurt due to higher prices and shortages. Business owners are hurt due to higher costs and some will shut down. Half of all U.S. employees are employed by small businesses. 

Higher wages mean higher costs. Eventually, higher costs wipe out gains made by higher incomes. Then comes the call to raise the minimum wage again. And the circle continues. But wait, there are other issues. Higher wages increase jobs being shipped out of the country. And higher wages make US products less competitive in the world market. Less competitive means fewer exports. Fewer exports means fewer jobs. 

The real minimum wage is $0. That first rung of the wage ladder is getting higher and higher. Some don't have the skill to make that jump. 

Free markets work. If someone offers me an apple for $1 and I am willing to pay $1, we both win. Forcing people to pay a minimum amount for a product can be uneconomical. Apple farmers may claim they aren't making enough money. If I'm forced to pay $5 for an apple, many apple farmers will go out of business due to a lack of demand. Apple pickers will be fired. Apple truckers will be out of work. Gas stations will get less business. Grocery stores will have less product to sell. 

Rich people don't care if an apple costs $5. Rich people don't care if a shirt at Walmart doubles in price. Poor people are hurt the most, they can no longer afford apples and shirts.

Forcing people to pay a minimum amount for labor has the same effect as forcing a minimum apple price. It hurts those the most that it was meant to help. Politicians know this. They also know they will get votes from low income people if they raise the minimum wage. 

There is no free lunch. Someone always pays for it.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

ANT 7 said:


> We're going to hit 70% of first doses this week in our province, and we're at about 25% on the second doses. Our cases (100-200 a day) and hospitalizations in the ICU (<100) are minimal at best. We've got a 4.6MM population in our region.
> 
> In 2 weeks we're fully reopened. no masks, etc. Depends on your market.
> 
> You make about $2K a month net on cheese here, and $20 an hour pays about a net income of $2,300 a month for work. That's a problem..........


When does the cheese end? Won't the problem resolve itself then?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

oldfart said:


> UBI would not be just for slackers.


is it ok if I ignore the first part of your post because we totally disagree and all my replies reflect that on this thread. 

as to what I quoted: UBI is income for slackers. Or do you feel the same amount of people who work now would remain exactly the same if UBI comes a real thing?

Also, do please tell me who funds UBI? Can't be the poor. Can't be current slackers? Oh, the middle class will get yet another responsibility to pay for those who can't seem to get out of first gear. Got it.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

September is the last date for cheese that I am aware of. 

Problem here is our PM and the other party supporting his government in power are ****ing communists who both want UBI for all.......


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

ANT 7 said:


> September is the last date for cheese that I am aware of.
> 
> Problem here is our PM and the other party supporting his government in power are ****ing communists who both want UBI for all.......


Then as they say at NASA "Houston we have a problem". It's virtually guaranteed that ours will end in September, no ifs, and or buts. But I can foresee you guys might have a very longterm problem. They'll probably have to raise your taxes, but fortunately you don't pay much in taxes now.

(Just kidding)


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Oh yeah, tax increases are coming for sure, and it won't be pretty.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

UberPotomac said:


> What it is embarrassing of this discussion is a worker trying to put down another workers just because they fight for better wages .


is that your take away? What is embarrassing is when one believes they should earn more and they don't have the requirements to show they should get paid more. Who put them in that position? Yeah, that is a trick question.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

*"What do you know? Employers who stop offering crap wages get inundated with jobseekers!"*

In my view the best aspect of this and other such posts is that it sponsors a conversation and makes us think about what workers should be entitled to.

As far as drawing the conclusion that offering higher wages has people flocking to fill job positions is very tricky at this point in time. For two reasons. One, we have the government handouts expiring in this time frame across a number of states. People losing their government stipends are naturally going to start applying for work.

Secondly, with the government having gone into competition with private industry in the form of record high pandemic and unemployment payouts, it is hard to argue that people are striking due to pay not being high enough. High enough in relation to what? Many are simply following the "path of least resistance". The government has been literally incentivizing people not to work.

--------------------
My view as to what a fair working wage is? In a free market, worker pay is mostly set by supply and demand. Companies offer the minimum wages it takes to a candidate able to perform the job.

Is that a "fair" system? Will employers take advantage? Will companies line the pockets of their executives, and strangulate its future by buying back shares of stock? Of course the system is not "fair". But those who complain about the current system sometimes forget that ALL systems are imperfect. It's like Churchill said, "_Capitalism is the worst form of government ever conceived.... except for all the others_".

Point being, we need to be very careful about legislating "livable wages". Such laws have broad and deep implications. It's OK to attempt to strike a balance between company greed and worker greed. Companies will naturally try to hold down worker pay to the greatest degree possible. Workers -visa vi unions- will inevitable seek higher and higher wages, until finally the company can no longer raise prices to compensate and is forced to move its operations to other countries. We have seen that happen in the US.

To the degree we all understand the Big Picture of how economies work, to that degree demands may be tempered.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

_Tron_ said:


> *"What do you know? Employers who stop offering crap wages get inundated with jobseekers!"*
> 
> In my view the best aspect of this and other such posts is that it sponsors a conversation and makes us think about what workers should be entitled to.
> 
> ...


The issue of fair pay has officially been resolved. Great job Tron, Shalester, bsliv and ANT 7!

Now let's tackle immigration.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

By the way, that 38 million bonus paid to that Chipotle executive in the referenced article breaks down to $579.53 per employee.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

ANT 7 said:


> September is the last date for cheese that I am aware of.
> 
> Problem here is our PM and the other party supporting his government in power are ****ing communists who both want UBI for all.......


Socialist, not Communist. Huge differences.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> Maybe you should define exactly what a 'living wage' is. Should you be guaranteed to make that living wage in just 40 hours? If so, why? I drove a taxi for at least 30 years of my life, and just about every cab driver, myself included, worked approximately 60 hours/week to make a living. And I never complained--- that was the nature of the job, and I agreed to do it. So if a person can't make a living working 40 hours/week then they can simply go get a part time job until they have enough to live on. If they get more skills down the road then maybe they can work less and still survive. But it doesn't seem right to me to enable their laziness because someone has arbitrarily decided that 40 hours is the correct number. I was able to work more hours than 40, so they could also.


Some people are beat up as kids by violent parents . Do we all have to suffer that traumas just because some did not have that choice?
Don’t we suppose to live a better world that the one we received?
Yes, working 40 hours a week should pay a livable wage . It is done on many other countries that do not have the resources this one have .
Unfortunately we keep going back to the original sin, where some feel entitled to reign over others and call them” lazy” for demand a level plainfield.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)




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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> Some people are beat up as kids by violent parents . Do we all have to suffer that traumas just because some did not have that choice?
> Don’t we suppose to live a better world that the one we received?
> Yes, working 40 hours a week should pay a livable wage . It is done on many other countries that do not have the resources this one have .
> Unfortunately we keep going back to the original sin, where some feel entitled to reign over others and call them” lazy” for demand a level plainfield.


Enough already! You interject racism and slavery into every post. There is no comparison whatsoever between low wages and slavery. 

Let's suppose you owned a car and wanted to sell it. I offer $1,000 for it, but you insist that you must receive $2,000 for it. I say no, because the blue book for the car is only $1,000, and I'm offering fair market value. Does that make me a racist or a colonialist or an exploiter? I would hope that your answer is no.

Now let's change what you are selling; instead of a car you are selling your labor. You want $20/hour, but I know that the fair market value for the labor that you offered me is only worth $10/hour. So I say no, because I'm not going to pay more than fair market for your labor. Are you now going to call me a racist because I won't pay you what you want for your labor?

Now you might say that the government should get involved and demand that I pay you $20/hour. By the same argument then shouldn't the government also get involved and insist that I pay you $2,000 for the car?

You've got to stop focusing on slavery and race. Neither one of those things has much to do with normal people's interactions.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

UberPotomac said:


> some feel entitled to reign over others


Seems like you're the one calling for force due to some not earning what you consider they are entitled to.

Nobody is entitled to anything. One should charge what the market will bear. If the market will bear $50 an hour for one's labor, fine. If the market will only bear $5 an hour, that's fine too. Low wages should create incentive to acquire more skills. Artificially high wages creates unemployment, more welfare, higher prices, and removes incentives to acquire more skills. 

No one is entitled to anything. Market prices, including labor, should be determined by supply and demand. That is a free market. Resources will be directed toward the most productive activity. A command market is where government dictates prices, including labor. A command market (socialism or communism) suffers from loss of freedoms, inefficiencies, high prices, lack of incentives, stagnation, and shortages. Resources will be directed where politicians decide.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

bsliv said:


> Seems like you're the one calling for force due to some not earning what you consider they are entitled to.
> 
> Nobody is entitled to anything. One should charge what the market will bear. If the market will bear $50 an hour for one's labor, fine. If the market will only bear $5 an hour, that's fine too. Low wages should create incentive to acquire more skills. Artificially high wages creates unemployment, more welfare, higher prices, and removes incentives to acquire more skills.
> 
> No one is entitled to anything. Market prices, including labor, should be determined by supply and demand. That is a free market. Resources will be directed toward the most productive activity. A command market is where government dictates prices, including labor. A command market (socialism or communism) suffers from loss of freedoms, inefficiencies, high prices, lack of incentives, stagnation, and shortages. Resources will be directed where politicians decide.


You said it much better than I could have.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

BestInDaWest said:


> you're right i dont like it. what does engaging have to do with pointing out you are a clown in need of reassurement?


I guess he couldn't stand the heat so he got out of the kitchen.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> You said it much better than I could have.


Not better just different.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Fischer Fan said:


> Maybe you should define exactly what a 'living wage' is. Should you be guaranteed to make that living wage in just 40 hours? If so, why? I drove a taxi for at least 30 years of my life, and just about every cab driver, myself included, worked approximately 60 hours/week to make a living. And I never complained--- that was the nature of the job, and I agreed to do it. So if a person can't make a living working 40 hours/week then they can simply go get a part time job until they have enough to live on. If they get more skills down the road then maybe they can work less and still survive. But it doesn't seem right to me to enable their laziness because someone has arbitrarily decided that 40 hours is the correct number. I was able to work more hours than 40, so they could also.



Me too 60 hours a week but as an uber driver, not taxi, Unlike you Im not saying thats acceptable.
.
Minimum wage in Florida is currently $8.65, Living wage in my county in Florida is nearly $15/hr (40 hour week) or $600/wk So lets look at a 60 hour week

$600/60 is $10/hour So the current min wage in Florida still doesn't cut it

Florida however is raising the min wage to $15 over time


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

oldfart said:


> Me too 60 hours a week but as an uber driver, not taxi, Unlike you Im not saying thats acceptable.
> .
> Minimum wage in Florida is currently $8.65, Living wage in my county in Florida is nearly $15/hr (40 hour week) or $600/wk So lets look at a 50 hour week
> 
> ...


Maybe we differ greatly on what you and I call a living wage.

Several years ago in California, when I leased the taxi, I had to sleep in the cab for weeks at a time because I couldn't afford rent. But I'm not complaining. It was my (poor?) choice to drive a cab. I still had plenty of money for food, etc.and compared to many people in the world I was doing quite well. (Compared to homeless people in San Jose I was living high on the hog.)

Just because I was born in the USA doesn't guarantee me that I can live like a king. I'm no more important than some poor person in Somalia, so I can't claim that I have an inalienable right to live better than a poor Somalian. I've learned to be happy with what I have, and as a Christian I try not to be jealous (covet) other people's possessions. 

Compared to most people in the US I guess I would have been considered poor, but I was almost always happy, and I still am. One of my biggest complaints about so many people in our country is the overwhelming sense of entitlement. Who said that everyone here has the right to live middle class or better? Be more content with what you have.

(Side note: it seems to me that the suicide rate amongst the wealthy is higher than amongst the poor. It shows that money won't buy you happiness, and, at the end of the day, isn't happiness what it's all about?)


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

bsliv said:


> If the minimum wage is $13 an hour and the market wage is $17, the minimum wage is irrelevant, it might as well be eliminated. If the minimum wage is $17 and the market wage is $13, harm is done to the economy, business owners, consumers, and low income earners. In fact, low income earners are hurt the worst due to loss of hours worked and loss of jobs. Consumers are hurt due to higher prices and shortages. Business owners are hurt due to higher costs and some will shut down. Half of all U.S. employees are employed by small businesses.
> 
> Higher wages mean higher costs. Eventually, higher costs wipe out gains made by higher incomes. Then comes the call to raise the minimum wage again. And the circle continues. But wait, there are other issues. Higher wages increase jobs being shipped out of the country. And higher wages make US products less competitive in the world market. Less competitive means fewer exports. Fewer exports means fewer jobs.
> 
> ...



What you are saying. I think, is that rising wages will automatically bring higher costs, That assumes that the supply of goods and services stays constant
But what if the supply of goods and services is able to keep up with the increased. demand?.... no inflation


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

oldfart said:


> What you are saying. I think, is that rising wages will automatically bring higher costs, That assumes that the supply of goods and services stays constant
> But what if the supply of goods and services is able to keep up with the increased. demand?.... no inflation


Labor is a high cost, sometimes the highest cost, of doing business. The business's suppliers also have the increased labor costs. That will raise the cost of goods and services supplying the business. And its not just the minimum wage worker that's getting the increases. If one was making 20% more than a minimum wage coworker, they will expect a raise to keep up. That's why a small percentage increase in labor cost equates to a larger percentage increase in prices. Higher prices means less demand. Less demand means fewer hours needed for labor. Its a vicious circle. 

The alternative is to let the market determine the prices. Right now there is a labor shortage. As a result, labor prices are increasing. Therefore, prices are also increasing. So, the lower wage earner has higher costs to deal with. That erases some of their increased earnings. The labor shortage is not good for the consumer. An artificial raise in costs would be much worse.

Where are low wager earners employed? Walmart, fast foods, gas stations, etc. Where do low wage earners shop? Walmart, fast foods, gas stations, etc. So the wage increases to low wage earners hurt low wager earners more than mid and high wage earners. Think McDonald's is going to eat the higher costs? Think again. They are passing the cost to the consumer and eliminating jobs through automation. A double whammy against low wage earners.

Automation is a cost cutting maneuver. 

Inflation is happening and it will accelerate.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Amos69 said:


> Socialist, not Communist. Huge differences.


Yes, the spelling.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Fischer Fan said:


> Enough already! You interject racism and slavery into every post. There is no comparison whatsoever between low wages and slavery.
> 
> Let's suppose you owned a car and wanted to sell it. I offer $1,000 for it, but you insist that you must receive $2,000 for it. I say no, because the blue book for the car is only $1,000, and I'm offering fair market value. Does that make me a racist or a colonialist or an exploiter? I would hope that your answer is no.
> 
> ...


Critical race theory would say, at least I think it says, all our interactions have to do with slavery and race

The definition of wage slave is someone dependent on wages for survival.. Slave owners used to argue that wage slavery was worse than chattel slavery 

If my car's market value is $1000 but I think its worth $2000, I dont have to sell. and you dont have to buy . But If the market value of my labor is $10. I have to take it. because I have to work, and the best any other employer is offering is $10. Thats the definition of wage slavery in my book`

if your business cant pay your employees a minimum wage, you dont have a business, you have a sweat shop

Costco is raising its minimum wage to $16 an hour, leapfrogging competitors including Target, Best Buy and Amazon. and the average wage for hourly workers at Costco is around $24 per hour.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

oldfart said:


> Critical race theory would say, at least I think it says, all our interactions have to do with slavery and race
> 
> The definition of wage slave is someone dependent on wages for survival.. Slave owners used to argue that wage slavery was worse than chattel slavery
> 
> ...


If Critical Race Theory is what you say it is then it hardly seems relevant, since almost none of our interactions have much to do with slavery and race (unless you want to pretend that they do). It sounds like a theory whose sole purpose is to demonize some people and victimize others.

If a 'wage slave' is someone dependent upon wages to survive then who doesn't fall into that category? (Just wealthy people).

Now let's look at a person who has limited marketable skills. Also suppose that your business can survive only if you pay what you would call 'sweatshop' wages. What is better: that the person works for you because you are the only one that will hire him, but where he'll at least make SOME money, or that the government says that you don't have a right to exist, so you lose your business and he now has zero income?

One final thought concerning 'sweatshop' wages: what about people that are not looking to make a living but are just trying to make a few extra dollars to purchase 'luxury' items? (A retiree on a fixed income comes to mind.) If they agree to work for you for 'sweatshop' wages then everyone is entering the agreement on their own free will, and they are not dependent on the money to survive. Where do you or the government have the right to interfere and say that this is unacceptable?

In my opinion the only time that the government should get involved with wages is when companies in an industry actually conspire to keep wages low. That would mean that they were not letting the free market determine the wages, and I would have a major problem with that. Otherwise I say to the government: Leave us alone!


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Fischer Fan said:


> If Critical Race Theory is what you say it is then it hardly seems relevant, since almost none of our interactions have much to do with slavery and race (unless you want to pretend that they do). It sounds like a theory whose sole purpose is to demonize some people and victimize others.
> 
> If a 'wage slave' is someone dependent upon wages to survive then who doesn't fall into that category? (Just wealthy people).
> 
> ...


I know that it’s a stretch to apply critical race theory here, and it flows from my belief chattel slavery and wage slavery are cut from the same cloth. Critical race theory grew out of critical legal theory and both are critical theory. These are topics taught in law school and the argument is that problems in our society are the result of the the structure of our society and assumptions made by that society not caused by individuals. And these problem causing assumptions are codified in the law

So if you don’t believe as I do that its a problem that business and industry can legally pay some of their employees less than a living wage because our society believes that some people don’t deserve to live. Then just ignore my reference to critical race theory 


But the fact is that business and industry can pay less than a living wage, not because an individual does not have marketable skills but because we (a collective we) believe that some people don’t deserve the basic necessities of life (water, food shelter and clothing) and the necessities for life in our society (health care, education and power)

I believe that if a business has a need to hire someone that person must have some skill that the business needs. So low paid unskilled workers do have a marketable skill (or they wouldn’t be hired at all) This begs the question does the business have a marketable product or service to sell. If they can’t sell enough at a price high enough to pay their employees a living wage I would argue that they don’t.

And yes anyone that works for wages is a wage slave. But it’s not just rich people that are not wage slaves. There are commissioned salespeople, business owners, and trust fund babies.

if you find someone to work for you that does not need the money then why pay them at all. You are looking for a volunteer


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

oldfart said:


> I know that it’s a stretch to apply critical race theory here, and it flows from my belief chattel slavery and wage slavery are cut from the same cloth. Critical race theory grew out of critical legal theory and both are critical theory. These are topics taught in law school and the argument is that problems in our society are the result of the the structure of our society and assumptions made by that society not caused by individuals. And these problem causing assumptions are codified in the law
> 
> So if you don’t believe as I do that its a problem that business and industry can legally pay some of their employees less than a living wage because our society believes that some people don’t deserve to live. Then just ignore my reference to critical race theory
> 
> ...


You clearly don't want to acknowledge any point of view other than your own. It's hard to have a discussion with someone so close minded. Plus by your responses I'm not even sure that you fully read what I wrote. You just have a knee-jerk reaction to certain items that you take out of context and ignore the total argument being presented. I don't think that I can get through to you, because you refuse to see the world in any other way than how you do already. So I officially give up with trying to open your mind to different ways to see things.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Fischer Fan said:


> You clearly don't want to acknowledge any point of view other than your own. It's hard to have a discussion with someone so close minded. Plus by your responses I'm not even sure that you fully read what I wrote. You just have a knee-jerk reaction to certain items that you take out of context and ignore the total argument being presented. I don't think that I can get through to you, because you refuse to see the world in any other way than how you do already. So I officially give up with trying to open your mind to different ways to see things.


I acknowledge your point of view. I don’t understand it

I am proposing a utopian vision of what could be. I have no idea how to pay for it or whether it necessarily will lead to inflation. But I am pretty sure that we can figure out how to make a vision like minereality without causing more serious problems

so I get it

you are talking about what is and trying to justify that doing nothing is OK. and I’m talking about what could be and trying to justify the means to get it done (minimum wage, UBI, job guarantees, universal health care etc)

I think we have come to an impasse. To keep going we have to at least agree on the problem we want to solve. We haven’t done that.

but it’s been fun and I thank you for helping me refine my argument


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

oldfart said:


> You are the one that personalized this. What I hear you saying is “I survived inspite of low wages, so everyone can. And more than that. everyone should live like I did


That's not what I said at all. If that's all you got out of it, then out of respect for the fact that you are older than me, I will simply and humbly say that I guess I did a very poor job of proving my point and in conveying my message.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

observer said:


> This article.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You mean this quote is not real...

*Local Phoenix resident, 52-year-old Tom Downey, who has been unemployed for the last 3 years, was excited about the opening of a nearby McDonald’s until he heard about the robots.*

*“Now that they hire only robots, I don’t know what I can even do. I don’t have an education, a car, and now I’m not gonna even be able to get a burger job. Just the thought of having to go to the state unemployment office and stand in line with those scumbags!”*

As soon as I read that I knew this article had to be fake!


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

UberPotomac said:


> That kind of entitlement is exactly what is wrong with this country . White Supremacy at their best .


Aaaaaaaand it only took 6 posts for the race card to be played in a topic about minimum wage. Most impressive! 🤣


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

oldfart said:


> Critical race theory would say, at least I think it says, all our interactions have to do with slavery and race
> 
> The definition of wage slave is someone dependent on wages for survival.. Slave owners used to argue that wage slavery was worse than chattel slavery
> 
> ...



Going wage for day labor from the fellows in the HD parking lot is $30 an hour in both WA and HI.

Some are more deserving of that than others.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

oldfart said:


> UBI would not be just for slackers. Or dont you know the meaning of the word universal. I have been a fan of UBI but I am moving to adding a job guarantee


I for one will support any candidate that promises to give me GUARANTEED CHEESE.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

BestInDaWest said:


> jobs that pay 15,16,17 are a joke....you cant pay bills much less save anything while inflation is cancelling out the extra money. economics is a game....and most people dont have a clue


Presuming someone lives in a low-cost area and gets 2000 hours a year - which at even $15/hr is $30K/yr or $2500/mo, and thus about $2000/mo after taxes - then after $100/mo for an ACA plan (which is what the expected contribution would be for someone at that wage level, and will certainly be lower once Biden implement ACA 2.0), $600/mo rent (I told you it was "low cost"), $400/mo for auto expenses, $400/mo for food/beer, that leaves an excess of $500/mo. Have $250/mo for other stuff, and that leaves a nice $250/mo to invest in an IRA. Yes, it is not fancy (and indeed, I have been getting by on about $200/mo for my ride - $120/mo of that on repair/maintenance  - but it's now just about old enough to get drafted ), but it's definitely doable, and that is for a single male (a female would eat less, but she would go shopping more  ); a married couple (legitimately or "common-law" ) could reduce the per-person rent outlay, and with the $350/mo CHILD CHEESE, any basic expenses for kids are taken care of by Uncle Sam.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

ANT 7 said:


> It was a food warehouse with something like 20 semi-trailer loading docks. It's probably 90% manual labor. You don't need any particular skills I'd imagine.
> 
> I'm in Alberta, up here in Kanaduh, eh !! Just north of Montana.


Is that US$ or C$?


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

Fischer Fan said:


> Maybe you should define exactly what a 'living wage' is. Should you be guaranteed to make that living wage in just 40 hours? If so, why? I drove a taxi for at least 30 years of my life, and just about every cab driver, myself included, worked approximately 60 hours/week to make a living. And I never complained--- that was the nature of the job, and I agreed to do it. So if a person can't make a living working 40 hours/week then they can simply go get a part time job until they have enough to live on. If they get more skills down the road then maybe they can work less and still survive. But it doesn't seem right to me to enable their laziness because someone has arbitrarily decided that 40 hours is the correct number. I was able to work more hours than 40, so they could also.


It's YOUR problem that you hustle for less than what an employer would pay.  "Being one's boss" sure seems to cost a lot!


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> It's YOUR problem that you hustle for less than what an employer would pay.  "Being one's boss" sure seems to cost a lot!


I never implied that it was anyone's problem other than my own, so what is your point? My point was that I think that people are softer and a lot more entitled than they used to be.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> Yes, the do deserve a living wage . If they are useless FIRED THEM . If employers keep them is because they have some use . Every employee that works 40 hours a week should get Paid a living wage . Period . No but , no if . Period .
> Slavery has been abolish long time ago , even that many did not got the memo .


You say slavery like it's a bad thing.


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> You say slavery like it's a bad thing.


Really?


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## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Aaaaaaaand it only took 6 posts for the race card to be played in a topic about minimum wage. Most impressive! 🤣


Why do you think it is ? Maybe because race is ALWAYS there.?
Would you believe the wife beater that says he does not beat his wife?Let’s ask the wife,don’t you think?


----------



## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> Why do you think it is ? Maybe because race is ALWAYS there.?
> Would you believe the wife beater that says he does not beat his wife?Let’s ask the wife,don’t you think?


Ok, you got me wondering. How exactly have you personally been exploited by the evil Arian slavemasters specifically because of your (yet to be disclosed) race?


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Fischer Fan said:


> Ok, you got me wondering. How exactly have you personally been exploited by the evil Arian slavemasters specifically because of your (yet to be disclosed) race?


I am not . But does not mean it does not happen. My “ people” been discriminated for years . We just learn not to give a shit and we do what we have to do. We learn long time ago that standing to a coward usually cause them to fold .Not the first time they beat up the arians. You may think to take a History refreshing course.
, “Those who don't know *history* are destined to repeat it.”


Fischer Fan said:


> Ok, you got me wondering. How exactly have you personally been exploited by the evil Arian slavemasters specifically because of your (yet to be disclosed) race?


I am not exploited . But will be disingenuous to think that it does not happen . Laughable if it wasnt so serious that some of you just decided that racism and discrimination does not exist . What is it, a mechanism to cope?


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

UberPotomac said:


> Why do you think it is ? Maybe because race is ALWAYS there.?


Why did you try to bring race into a thread about employers having to pay more to attract workers? I have no idea; I find your posts unintelligible.


> Would you believe the wife beater that says he does not beat his wife?Let’s ask the wife,don’t you think?


Wife beating has absolutely nothing to to do with demand for workers outstripping labour supply.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Why did you try to bring race into a thread about employers having to pay more to attract workers? I have no idea; I find your posts unintelligible.
> Wife beating has absolutely nothing to to do with demand for workers outstripping labour supply.


“Bringing race”? Race is always a fact . The fact that you don’t get it , shows how clueless you are at best The alternative is just too ugly. 
I am ending this right now . There is no gain to have a discussion.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

UberPotomac said:


> “Bringing race”? Race is always a fact . The fact that you don’t get it , shows how clueless you are at best The alternative is just too ugly.
> I am ending this right now . There is no gain to have a discussion.


🤷‍♀️


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Fischer Fan said:


> You say slavery like it's a bad thing.


It is a bad thing. It is arguably one of the worst things one man can do to another man. I would absolutely hate white people if I was black.

I think Tom MacDonald says it best:






Trigger Warning: This video may be offensive to some.


----------



## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

SpinalCabbage said:


> It is a bad thing. It is arguably one of the worst things one man can do to another man. I would absolutely hate white people if I was black.
> 
> I think Tom MacDonald says it best:
> 
> ...


It was a joke to see what reaction I would get from Uber Potomac, who sees race problems and white supremacy everywhere. I can't believe that you felt compelled to respond.

And what a strange bigoted comment that you made--- that you would hate white people if you were black. Did you forget all of the white people that died in the civil war to fight against slavery? Have you also forgotten about the Native Americans that owned slaves? What about the (black) Africans that captured and sold the slaves? Are you choosing to only hate white people?

Finally, why would you hate the white descendants of white slave owners? They have absolutely nothing to do with what their ancestors did, and are not responsible for their actions.

I agree with you on most things, so I must say that I am confused by what you posted.


----------



## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> “Bringing race”? Race is always a fact . The fact that you don’t get it , shows how clueless you are at best The alternative is just too ugly.
> I am ending this right now . There is no gain to have a discussion.


If we don't have a discussion then how are you supposed to 'educate' us? Clearly none of us feel the way that you do. And you said that you are not the victim of white supremacy, so it doesn't seem logical to assume that it is prevalent. Why don't white people exploit you?


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Fischer Fan said:


> It was a joke to see what reaction I would get from Uber Potomac, who sees race problems and white supremacy everywhere. I can't believe that you felt compelled to respond.
> 
> And what a strange bigoted comment that you made--- that you would hate white people if you were black. Did you forget all of the white people that died in the civil war to fight against slavery? Have you also forgotten about the Native Americans that owned slaves? What about the (black) Africans that captured and sold the slaves? Are you choosing to only hate white people?
> 
> ...


Yeah, I would hate white people if I was black. I can't put it any simpler than that. I'm not saying it is right. I am saying it is how I would feel, if I were black.


----------



## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Yeah, I would hate white people if I was black. I can't put it any simpler than that. I'm not saying it is right. I am saying it is how I would feel, if I were black.


How sad. And unhealthy. And immoral. And unfair. My girlfriend is black and I'm pretty sure that she loves white boy me, so I am sure glad that she doesn't have your attitude. 

Is it conceivable that you are getting too caught up in some of that hate-filled rap?

Tom MacDonald is rapping about how wrong it is for white people to steal black people's music, while he steals black people's music by rapping. Plus his cultural appropriation of the cornrows was not lost on me. I had never heard of the guy before now, so this was the only video I've ever seen of him, and I hesitate to criticize him any more than I already have since you might be a big fan of his, but--- it appeared to me that he was pandering to black people in his video, probably both to get their acceptance and to get their money. Somehow that bothers me. It's almost like he's exploiting the very people that he claims to be advocating for. But I could be wrong.


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Fischer Fan said:


> How sad. And unhealthy. And immoral. And unfair. My girlfriend is black and I'm pretty sure that she loves white boy me, so I am sure glad that she doesn't have your attitude.
> 
> Is it conceivable that you are getting too caught up in some of that hate-filled rap?
> 
> Tom MacDonald is rapping about how wrong it is for white people to steal black people's music, while he steals black people's music by rapping. Plus his cultural appropriation of the cornrows was not lost on me. I had never heard of the guy before now, so this was the only video I've ever seen of him, and I hesitate to criticize him any more than I already have since you might be a big fan of his, but--- it appeared to me that he was pandering to black people in his video, probably both to get their acceptance and to get their money. Somehow that bothers me. It's almost like he's exploiting the very people that he claims to be advocating for. But I could be wrong.


Definitely some pandering going on. It's music. It's show biz.

As far as you being glad I am not your girlfriend.... I'm a straight white male. So we're in agreement there. But speaking of Straight White Male:


----------



## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Definitely some pandering going on. It's music. It's show biz.
> 
> As far as you being glad I am not your girlfriend.... I'm a straight white male. So we're in agreement there. But speaking of Straight White Male:


I see. He just tries to give different perspectives.

So will the 'real' Tom MacDonald please stand up!

Nice segue, by the way, so that you could talk about Straight White Male, but I was talking about your attitude, not your gender. I also am a straight white male.


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Fischer Fan said:


> I see. He just tries to give different perspectives.
> 
> So will the 'real' Tom MacDonald please stand up!


Tom is the guy who appreciates his fans.






Tom on Fox News after his Fake Woke video was released:






Hang over Gang for Life. Gang Gang Gang.



Now to get back on topic...

Uber pay sucks.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Fischer Fan said:


> You say slavery like it's a bad thing.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)




----------



## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I live part time in a country whose history of slavery, etc, is similar, but centuries longer, than that in the US.

I am a minority there as a Caucasian.

The black and mulatto people in this country, quite frankly, are not as mentally unbalanced and outright clinically insane grifters as what I am going to refer to as many US blacks. It's not even close.

Explain.......

If the democrats would stop exploiting race for decades, as they have no platform, maybe it would be different ? Have they programmed the race bias into their voter base ?


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

ANT 7 said:


> I live part time in a country whose history of slavery, etc, is similar, but centuries longer, than that in the US.
> 
> I am a minority their as a Caucasian.
> 
> ...


You are confused . Wrong party . 
Trump Party is all about race..


----------



## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

You've been programmed bro.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Still listening to the “Pillow guy” and the “ kraken” ? Must be the Clorox!!!!

Jajaja


----------



## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Ok then......


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

ANT 7 said:


> If the democrats would stop exploiting race for decades, as they have no platform, maybe it would be different ? Have they programmed the race bias into their voter base ?


a Canadian's take on US political parties. Hum. 

Interesting you left the GOP out of it totally? All white is aok, then? Very good people on both sides? Hum II


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

ANT 7 said:


> You've been programmed bro.


Everyone has been programed.

Even you and I


----------



## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

SHalester said:


> a Canadian's take on US political parties


Does anyone care ?


----------



## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

UberPotomac said:


> Still listening to the “Pillow guy” and the “ kraken” ? Must be the Clorox!!!!
> 
> Jajaja


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

radikia said:


> View attachment 600696


Sorry , pal. I really don’t want to be the one to tell you but who in the righ mind will go ahead and do a CLOROX clean up ?


----------



## BestInDaWest (Apr 8, 2021)

Fischer Fan said:


> If we don't have a discussion then how are you supposed to 'educate' us? Clearly none of us feel the way that you do. And you said that you are not the victim of white supremacy, so it doesn't seem logical to assume that it is prevalent. Why don't white people exploit you?


clown


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

radikia said:


> Does anyone care ?


Is that a hypothetical question?


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Fischer Fan said:


> Clearly none of us feel the way that you do.


Thats not true


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Chipotle's menu prices increase should be blamed on the CEO, not the workers


The food chain says the 4% increase to menu prices is to cover increasing employee wages to $15 an hour. Last year, their CEO got a $24 million raise.



www.businessinsider.com






*Chipotle gave huge payouts to its CEO and shareholders, then blamed workers for price increases — here's what's really going on*


Hmmmm.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Reminds me of this.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Minimum wage in Texas is $7.25.









Teenage fast-food workers are landing $50,000-a-year manager jobs at a Texas chicken restaurant thanks to the labor shortage


The CEO of Layne's Chicken Fingers, a Texas chain, told The WSJ that he was training 16- and 17-year-olds to run new stores amid the labor shortage.




www.businessinsider.com


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Worker shortage likely to last for years because the number of working-age people has shrunk


As America’s job market rebounds this summer and the need for workers intensifies, employers won’t likely have a chance to relax anytime soon. Worker shortages will likely persist for y…



ktla.com


----------



## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

radikia said:


> View attachment 600696


That looks like former French President Jacques Chirac after spending too much time on the Côte d'Azur,


----------



## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

observer said:


> Minimum wage in Texas is $7.25.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How can anyone that is not old enough to be an independent party to a contract be a "manager"?


----------



## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

UberPotomac said:


> Too many people here demanding people go back to work for slave wages . My question to you is why do you ask someone else to do the same thing you are not willing to do?
> Do you want to work for slave wages ?


Slave wages? Hmm, how about people actually have the skills to do the job at the inflated wages they are demanding. Stop demanding McD's pays an 18 yr old who can barely count to 10 without a calculator $17/hr.



UberPotomac said:


> Ahhh , but you demand others to do it because you can not get decent service on a price you can afford . That kind of entitlement is exactly what is wrong with this country .. YOUR needs are in front of anyone else’s . And of course, we all know most service jobs are done by minorities.


Really, they are? Maybe where you live, but I'm in rural areas, where those jobs are filled by what ever ethnic group is available



UberPotomac said:


> White Supremacy at their best


and there it is, the typical liber mantra because they don't like the way things are, it's white supremacy, it's racism, it's this, it's that, stop being a whiney, crying *****



UberPotomac said:


> Screw you !!! Get your hands dirty and get the job done yourself , if you can’t afford to pay for it
> 
> 
> > Got, my 87 yr old mother in law, who barely exists on social security that hasn't changed in 60 yrs, despite how many different administrations and political parties promising to change it, but instead have raided it, should pay inflated wages that aren't deserved
> ...


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Frontier Guy said:


> Slave wages? Hmm, how about people actually have the skills to do the job at the inflated wages they are demanding. Stop demanding McD's pays an 18 yr old who can barely count to 10 without a calculator $17/hr.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are living on an “alternative facts reality”called “ TrumpWorld”. When you get back to earth , call me and we chat . Nonsense to discuss anything with someone that lives on that world .


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> How can anyone that is not old enough to be an independent party to a contract be a "manager"?


A contract isn't needed to be a manager, managers are still employees.

Age does not make someone mature.

I had a guy that was in his late 40s, worked for me for 10 years. I should have fired him 10 years ago except for what I needed him, he was adequate.

When I decided to remodel my house I knew he was incapable of running the ranch and/or the remodel. 

I hired the 17 year old son of a friend and put him in charge.

The older guy promptly quit. He didn't want a teenager telling him what to do.

The kid is now nineteen years old, he hires and pays the bricklayers, woodworkers, welders, plumbers, electricians, orders materials, pays for materials and runs the ranch.

Yes, he has made a couple mistakes but luckily they were fixable and didn't cost much. 

He's ten times a better manager than the older guy and has gained a lot of experience that will be with him for the rest of his life.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> How can anyone that is not old enough to be an independent party to a contract be a "manager"?


I was a shift manager with Orange Julius long before I was 18. No signing of contracts required. Sign for deliveries; make bank deposits, train and supervise the 'crew'....cover for the manager who just went to the bar and got drunk while I did HER job. 

It's not unheard of.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> Usually "slaves" do not get paid.


You see, you do not even think they deserve “slave wages” . You just proved my point.

jajajaja


----------



## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

UberPotomac said:


> You are living on an “alternative facts reality”called “ TrumpWorld”. When you get back to earth , call me and we chat . Nonsense to discuss anything with someone that lives on that world .


Reality, LMAO, here’s reality. 2017, Sidney, Nebraska, like many others, the employees at the McDonalds were crying for $15 an hr, despite living wage in that area being $10/hr. Stopped in for lunch, my total was $8.37. Jimmy at the register, has his Fight For $15 button on. I hand Jimmy $20.37, you’d have thought I handed him a live rattlesnake, he had no clue what to do, first he gave me back my .37 cents, telling me I gave him too much money, then he proceeded to give me $12.87 in change. I asked him if he was positive of what he did, he said yes. I called his manager over, who I knew because I used to deliver to that store. I explained to her that first I gave Jimmy $20.37 for a $8.37 order, and Jimmy gave me back my $.37 cents saying I gave him too much money. Then I showed her that he gave me too much money in change for my $20, and had I kept it, he would have shorted his drawer, a short he would have been responsible for. I then pointed out to Jimmy, that before he earns $15/hr, maybe he should have the skills required to earn the $10/hr he was actually being paid.

But, to the brain dead like yourself, you’re good with paying people more than they are worth. BTW, my wife used to manage a fast food place, it was a constant issue, 17 yr olds who could barely wipe their nose, demanding to be paid wages not consistent with their skill set or brain level. Further, you want to bash Trump and the right, consider for a moment, the dementia patient you currently support and his ilk don’t believe 18 yr olds should be allowed access to guns, but have no problem saying they should be permitted to drive 80,000lb vehicles on the nation’s highways, for slave wages.

BTW, if we’re going to pay McD workers a living wage, then do we adjust every other wage? Because I’d be more than happy to make $50/hr, as that’s what my adjustment would be.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Frontier Guy said:


> Reality, LMAO, here’s reality. 2017, Sidney, Nebraska, like many others, the employees at the McDonalds were crying for $15 an hr, despite living wage in that area being $10/hr. Stopped in for lunch, my total was $8.37. Jimmy at the register, has his Fight For $15 button on. I hand Jimmy $20.37, you’d have thought I handed him a live rattlesnake, he had no clue what to do, first he gave me back my .37 cents, telling me I gave him too much money, then he proceeded to give me $12.87 in change. I asked him if he was positive of what he did, he said yes. I called his manager over, who I knew because I used to deliver to that store. I explained to her that first I gave Jimmy $20.37 for a $8.37 order, and Jimmy gave me back my $.37 cents saying I gave him too much money. Then I showed her that he gave me too much money in change for my $20, and had I kept it, he would have shorted his drawer, a short he would have been responsible for. I then pointed out to Jimmy, that before he earns $15/hr, maybe he should have the skills required to earn the $10/hr he was actually being paid.
> 
> But, to the brain dead like yourself, you’re good with paying people more than they are worth. BTW, my wife used to manage a fast food place, it was a constant issue, 17 yr olds who could barely wipe their nose, demanding to be paid wages not consistent with their skill set or brain level. Further, you want to bash Trump and the right, consider for a moment, the dementia patient you currently support and his ilk don’t believe 18 yr olds should be allowed access to guns, but have no problem saying they should be permitted to drive 80,000lb vehicles on the nation’s highways, for slave wages.
> 
> ...


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Frontier Guy said:


> Reality, LMAO, here’s reality. 2017, Sidney, Nebraska, like many others, the employees at the McDonalds were crying for $15 an hr, despite living wage in that area being $10/hr. Stopped in for lunch, my total was $8.37. Jimmy at the register, has his Fight For $15 button on. I hand Jimmy $20.37, you’d have thought I handed him a live rattlesnake, he had no clue what to do, first he gave me back my .37 cents, telling me I gave him too much money, then he proceeded to give me $12.87 in change. I asked him if he was positive of what he did, he said yes. I called his manager over, who I knew because I used to deliver to that store. I explained to her that first I gave Jimmy $20.37 for a $8.37 order, and Jimmy gave me back my $.37 cents saying I gave him too much money. Then I showed her that he gave me too much money in change for my $20, and had I kept it, he would have shorted his drawer, a short he would have been responsible for. I then pointed out to Jimmy, that before he earns $15/hr, maybe he should have the skills required to earn the $10/hr he was actually being paid.
> 
> But, to the brain dead like yourself, you’re good with paying people more than they are worth. BTW, my wife used to manage a fast food place, it was a constant issue, 17 yr olds who could barely wipe their nose, demanding to be paid wages not consistent with their skill set or brain level. Further, you want to bash Trump and the right, consider for a moment, the dementia patient you currently support and his ilk don’t believe 18 yr olds should be allowed access to guns, but have no problem saying they should be permitted to drive 80,000lb vehicles on the nation’s highways, for slave wages.
> 
> BTW, if we’re going to pay McD workers a living wage, then do we adjust every other wage? Because I’d be more than happy to make $50/hr, as that’s what my adjustment would be.


Typical Republican response . Traffiquing with people’s misery, racism , hate as long there is a buck for you . At least we are clear we’re we stand .Your answer to everything is “what is in there for me”.


----------



## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

UberPotomac said:


> Typical Republican response . Traffiquing with people’s misery, racism , hate as long there is a buck for you . At least we are clear we’re we stand .Your answer to everything is “what is in there for me”.


Odd that someone crying about capitalism, would drive for a company that pays well below minimum wage.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Frontier Guy said:


> Odd that someone crying about capitalism, would drive for a company that pays well below minimum wage.


First , I am actually defending real Capitalism. And second, it may pay way below minimum wage to you but not to me . I am around double or more the proposed minimum wage every hour I choose to work.

The next time you can’t satisfied your girlfriend , you may consider is not her , it more likely YOU.!!!

jajajaja

Your problem is that you want prosperity for you but no for anyone else . Again you proved that is all about “ what is in for YOU” . Republicans love to use big words like freedom , capitalism , rights until minorities try to exercise that sane rights . That is when you guys , start whining if we are going to pay 15 to them, how much more do I get “ Do you get why we always end up on the “White Supremacy” angle .
I dont need to be smart , just old to know that Conservatives are a bunch of grifters dressing as a priest , preaching values that never follow themselves . Is all about the BENJAMINS for your kind.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Typical Republican answers “
“White supremacy and Racism does not exist because we had a black president” “
“We are the smartest and the brightest” .
“Everyone that disagree is an idiot or stupid “
“What is in it for ME?”

jajaja

Fumny how you need that reassurance on any paragraph you post.

Most people are not buying your hate and fake religion and nationalist values .

Continue sticking to insurrection , guns, hate and fake nationalism while the rest of us focus in progress , social justice , and a fair and more inclusive society .

We still waiting to see the pictures of Conservatives conquering the airports on the Civil War that you relish to re create .

When you check on the room , and you can not identify who the dumbest person is. Guess what?

Moving on ……


----------



## BunnyK (Dec 12, 2017)

People are worth what they earn. Lazy bums with no skills, education, or drive deserve what they get.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

BunnyK said:


> People are worth what they earn. Lazy bums with no skills, education, or drive deserve what they get.


Rich coming from a Trump supporter . More likely you have enjoyed all the privileges but of course, in your mind, you deserved what you got and others don’t . You maybe another rocket scientist geniuses that drive rideshare for fun.


----------



## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

UberPotomac said:


> Rich coming from a Trump supporter . More likely you have enjoyed all the privileges but of course, in your mind, you deserved what you got and others don’t . You maybe another rocket scientist geniuses that drive rideshare for fun.


Nope.

Seems I didn't get what I deserve.

Could you send me a truck load of cash? 

Large denominations please.

It would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

UberPotomac said:


> Typical Republican answers “
> “White supremacy and Racism does not exist because we had a black president” “
> “We are the smartest and the brightest” .
> “Everyone that disagree is an idiot or stupid “
> ...


"...I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you..."

Good luck with that.


----------



## circuitsports (Apr 19, 2020)

UberPotomac said:


> Rich coming from a Trump supporter .


You just think you voted for Biden because he hates America, you really just hate yourself and are trying to take it out on the rest of US.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

circuitsports said:


> You just think you voted for Biden because he hates America, you really just hate yourself and are trying to take it out on the rest of US.


You can not stop taking your medications . Please do as a favor and set up some reminders 
Anytime this happen you embarrass yourself posting nonsense comments.


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Poll asks the recurring question... gets the most obvious answer:

*Q: What Reasons Do the Unemployed Give for Turning Down a Job?

A: "I have enough money from unemployment insurance" is tied for the highest reason.*










What Reasons Do the Unemployed Give for Turning Down a Job?


Axios reports about 1.8 million out-of-work Americans have turned down jobs because of the generosity of unemployment insurance benefits, according to Morning




mishtalk.com


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

_Tron_ said:


> Poll asks the recurring question... gets the most obvious answer:
> 
> *Q: What Reasons Do the Unemployed Give for Turning Down a Job?
> 
> ...


EIGHTY SEVEN percent of respondents picked a different reason.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

observer said:


> EIGHTY SEVEN percent of respondents picked a different reason.







Pentagon buys 1k toilets , big pharma research on tax payers dime, turn around and sell us the drugs at astronomical prices , oil companies demand subsidies Even with records profits and no REPUBLICAN complained.
The little guy get the unemployment they CONTRIBUTE every month on their deductions and REPUBLICANS claim will that will be the end of the world. !!!!!! Jajajaja


----------



## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

UberPotomac said:


> Continue sticking to insurrection , guns, hate and fake nationalism while the rest of us focus in progress , social justice , and a fair and more inclusive society .


Meanwhile, the socialist utopia of Venezuela has collapsed, Cuba, touted by the left as utopia is in a state of unrest, protesters flying the American flag as the utopia they desire, the military now rounding up and beating/jailing demonstrators (I’m sure they’ll be out on the street after posting bail, oh, wait, Cuba doesn’t do bail, never mind).

Gosh, capitalist America, where people are dying to enter, to achieve a better life, oddly, I don’t see them rushing the other way, why is that?

How odd is it, that Uncle Joe and Auntie Kamala are doing nothing to stem the illegal immigration on the Southern border, essentially welcoming them, but meanwhile have told Cubans fleeing the Castro dictatorship, they are not welcome, and if they arrive, will be sent back.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

https://news.yahoo.com/19-old-fast-food-boss-113316503.htmlhttps://news.yahoo.com/19-old-fast-food-boss-113316503.html


----------



## ftupelo (Mar 18, 2018)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/06/10/worker-shortage-raising-wages/
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, there is one party decrying all this "inflation".


You mean increased demand for labor increases wages? It's almost like we should enact policies that encourage business investment that will increase demand for labor.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Foe the 13% that say unemployment pays them better than work... Thats evidence that the job doesnt pay enough


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

‘Great Attrition’ or ‘Great Attraction’? The choice is yours


As the Great Resignation rages, organizations that learn why employees are quitting and respond thoughtfully will have an edge in attracting and retaining talent.




www.mckinsey.com


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

observer said:


> ‘Great Attrition’ or ‘Great Attraction’? The choice is yours
> 
> 
> As the Great Resignation rages, organizations that learn why employees are quitting and respond thoughtfully will have an edge in attracting and retaining talent.
> ...


I agree with this 100%. After just three months I recently quit my job - the company had a culture of treating its employees with such arrogance, disrespect, contempt and apathy that remaining there would be impossible for anyone with a shred of dignity. These problems were pervasive, with this toxic culture in evidence from the lowest supervisor up to the top-level management.

In my experience, and as the article says, it is very difficult for companies with a toxic culture to even recognise there is an issue, let alone fix it. But they are the ones who lose out, and they lose out heavily. I estimated it cost the company at least $15,000 to train me, and they got nothing in return for that outlay with my exit due to their dysfunctionality.

It's strange how companies will invest billions and millions in technology, facilities, executives etc etc, yet for all their MBAs from Ivy League universities, they overlook spending just the small amount required to provide the human element of treating people like human beings, and have those people stay. I find it very bizarre.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

UberPotomac said:


> Rich coming from a Trump supporter . More likely you have enjoyed all the privileges but of course, in your mind, you deserved what you got and others don’t . You maybe another rocket scientist geniuses that drive rideshare for fun.


Explain to us, oh great Nobel Economist:

Maverik Corner stores, hiring cashiers, $18/hr to start, 13% shift differential for afternoons, 18% shift differential for overnight, immediately hiring 20 employees for a new store set to open Sept. 15th, $2,500 sign-on, full benefits, zero applicants at a three different hiring fairs recently

Fedex Ground, Denver, Co., currently hiring 60 overnight warehouse workers, $22/hr to start, $24/hr after 60 days, quarterly raises thereafter, $5,000 sign-on bonus 1/2 at hire 1/2 at 60 days, 18% shift differential, full benefits from day one, 40 hour workweek. They had a hiring fair this past Friday, they had 32 applicants. What do you propose should be the appropriate wage that would draw the unemployed out?

Old Dominion Freight had a hiring fair on the 9th, CDL, non-CDL and warehouse positions available. Warehouse starts at $19/hr with better than union benefits from day one, 40hr workweek, 15% shift differential for 2nd shift, 12 open positions. Non-cdl driving positions, starting salary is $25/hr, better than union benefits day one, 40 hr workweek, OT after 40 paid at time and a half, 16 open positions, CDL drivers, $28/hr to start ($28 is the minimum, Drivers with 10 yrs exp. were being offered $35/hr), $10K sign-on, minimum 40 hr workweek, better than union benefits, 20 open positions. For all these open positions, they had a total of 40 applicants.

USPS line-haul relay driver, 3x14 workweek, gov't benefits, CDL required, $38/hr to start, 40 open positions ahead of the holidays, hiring began 8/28, they have had zero applicants. In years past, this job started at $27/hr to $34/hr

If it's about the money, where are the applicants, why are they not flocking to these open jobs, or is it about laziness?


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I agree with this 100%. After just three months I recently quit my job - the company had a culture of treating its employees with such arrogance, disrespect, contempt and apathy that remaining there would be impossible for anyone with a shred of dignity. These problems were pervasive, with this toxic culture in evidence from the lowest supervisor up to the top-level management.
> 
> In my experience, and as the article says, it is very difficult for companies with a toxic culture to even recognise there is an issue, let alone fix it. But they are the ones who lose out, and they lose out heavily. I estimated it cost the company at least $15,000 to train me, and they got nothing in return for that outlay with my exit due to their dysfunctionality.
> 
> It's strange how companies will invest billions and millions in technology, facilities, executives etc etc, yet for all their MBAs from Ivy League universities, they overlook spending just the small amount required to provide the human element of treating people like human beings, and have those people stay. I find it very bizarre.


When the company I worked at (a small, regional, family owned and run company) was bought out by a Fortune 500 company years ago, I was laid off.

I knew the company was up for sale two years before it was sold. Once I knew who the buyers were I researched them and realized my time at this company would not last long, so I prepared. I started my new job the day after I was laid off.

I made a conscious decision to never work for a big corporation again.

I've had offers to work at competitors or other big companies but I've passed on those offers. I like working at places where I can deal directly with the owner.

BTW, guess who is suffering with filling management positions right now, and big time.

The old owners cultivated a feeling of belonging. 

The new owners cultivated a feeling of you're expendable.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Frontier Guy said:


> Explain to us, oh great Nobel Economist:
> 
> Maverik Corner stores, hiring cashiers, $18/hr to start, 13% shift differential for afternoons, 18% shift differential for overnight, immediately hiring 20 employees for a new store set to open Sept. 15th, $2,500 sign-on, full benefits, zero applicants at a three different hiring fairs recently
> 
> ...



Its not just about the money.. read the article


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

oldfart said:


> Its not just about the money.. read the article


If you've been unemployed for the last 16 months, and you are not bothering to put in applications, then the "article" is moot. Now, if we were back at full employment, and people were changing jobs in droves, that's a different story.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/06/10/worker-shortage-raising-wages/
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, there is one party decrying all this "inflation".


But then ...
fast forward to Jean Ocelot standing in the WalMart store looking at a new pair of kicks. "Wow, these damn shoes are expensive. Last year I bought a pair for $20 less." So, Jean doesn't buy new kicks.
Next day Jean is in the bosses office. Jean works on a process line, packaging food to be shipped all over the country. "Hey boss. I can't afford a new pair of shoes. I need shoes. You don't pay me enough. I need a raise or I gotta go job hunting." Well, Jean's a great employee so the boss bites the bullet and gives the bump. Well, it gets discovered by the other employees ... and, guess what. They ALL get raises. Thanks Jean!
So now, the food company has to raise prices. And one day Ms. UberBastid goes to buy a small chicken. "Holey crap. This stuff is expensive." So, She does not buy the chicken. 
Instead she's in her boss's office the next day. "Hey boss, you don't pay me enough ...."

But, that's not inflation ... right?


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> But then ...
> fast forward to Jean Ocelot standing in the WalMart store looking at a new pair of kicks. "Wow, these damn shoes are expensive. Last year I bought a pair for $20 less." So, Jean doesn't buy new kicks.
> Next day Jean is in the bosses office. Jean works on a process line, packaging food to be shipped all over the country. "Hey boss. I can't afford a new pair of shoes. I need shoes. You don't pay me enough. I need a raise or I gotta go job hunting." Well, Jean's a great employee so the boss bites the bullet and gives the bump. Well, it gets discovered by the other employees ... and, guess what. They ALL get raises. Thanks Jean!
> So now, the food company has to raise prices. And one day Ms. UberBastid goes to buy a small chicken. "Holey crap. This stuff is expensive." So, She does not buy the chicken.
> ...


And everybody forgets about all the other factors involved in getting those kicks or that chicken to market, and how those initial inflated wages, will drive up all the inflated costs, which will again drive up inflated ages


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Frontier Guy said:


> And everybody forgets about all the other factors involved in getting those kicks or that chicken to market, and how those initial inflated wages, will drive up all the inflated costs, which will again drive up inflated ages


There's too many people out there that have never lived in a hyper-inflationary period. And us old people are just too stupid to listen to. And, most people can't or won't read a book or learn anything as 'useless' as macro-economics. 
But, they'll learn.
Unfortunately, the hard way.


.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> There's too many people out there that have never lived in a hyper-inflationary period. And us old people are just too stupid to listen to. And, most people can't or won't read a book or learn anything as 'useless' as macro-economics.
> But, they'll learn.
> Unfortunately, the hard way.
> 
> ...


As one old guy to another, You havent lived in a hyperinflation period either.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I agree with this 100%. After just three months I recently quit my job - the company had a culture of treating its employees with such arrogance, disrespect, contempt and apathy that remaining there would be impossible for anyone with a shred of dignity. These problems were pervasive, with this toxic culture in evidence from the lowest supervisor up to the top-level management.
> 
> In my experience, and as the article says, it is very difficult for companies with a toxic culture to even recognise there is an issue, let alone fix it. But they are the ones who lose out, and they lose out heavily. I estimated it cost the company at least $15,000 to train me, and they got nothing in return for that outlay with my exit due to their dysfunctionality.
> 
> It's strange how companies will invest billions and millions in technology, facilities, executives etc etc, yet for all their MBAs from Ivy League universities, they overlook spending just the small amount required to provide the human element of treating people like human beings, and have those people stay. I find it very bizarre.


I remember a programming gig I had where when I showed up for the first day, the facilities department built me a new desk right then & there! They ended up treated me wonderfully the whole time. Wisconsin Nice.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

Frontier Guy said:


> Explain to us, oh great Nobel Economist:
> 
> Maverik Corner stores, hiring cashiers, $18/hr to start, 13% shift differential for afternoons, 18% shift differential for overnight, immediately hiring 20 employees for a new store set to open Sept. 15th, $2,500 sign-on, full benefits, zero applicants at a three different hiring fairs recently
> 
> ...


What city? Along the Gulf Coast, those jobs would get filled. Denver is now rather expensive - much more so then when I lived there in during the winters of the late '00s.

And if Maverick Corner can't get staff, I guess they don't open up a new location. I'm sure we already have enough crap that they sell.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

observer said:


> When the company I worked at (a small, regional, family owned and run company) was bought out by a Fortune 500 company years ago, I was laid off.
> 
> I knew the company was up for sale two years before it was sold. Once I knew who the buyers were I researched them and realized my time at this company would not last long, so I prepared. I started my new job the day after I was laid off.
> 
> ...


I would day that about half of the large corporations I worked treated the employees acceptably. 

The best job I had was when I was working in London for France Telecon. Due to LargeCorp nepotism and general common sense-free decision making, my boss was a guy who worked in Paris who did not know what I did, and much less how I did it. It worked out great. I kept delivering results and he stayed away. Just a weekly phone call.


"Is everything ok?
"Yes, everything's fine"
Ok, speak to you next week"


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I would day that about half of the large corporations I worked treated the employees acceptably.
> 
> The best job I had was when I was working in London for France Telecon. Due to LargeCorp nepotism and general common sense-free decision making, my boss was a guy who worked in Paris who did not know what I did, and much less how I did it. It worked out great. I kept delivering results and he stayed away. Just a weekly phone call.
> 
> ...


Same here. I saw my boss once every couple months and his dad about twice a year.

They actually only visited Norcal twice in the 8 years I was there.

Pretty much do your own thing as long as you produce results, which I did.

I was able to make mistakes, learn from them and improve the way we did things.

I learned a lot hands on and got a great education. I've been able to apply much of what I learned there in my subsequent jobs.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> What city? Along the Gulf Coast, those jobs would get filled. Denver is now rather expensive - much more so then when I lived there in during the winters of the late '00s.
> 
> And if Maverick Corner can't get staff, I guess they don't open up a new location. I'm sure we already have enough crap that they sell.


🤔

I've been looking at wages in Denver. Double what they are around here. I'm heading up there next week to look around.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

observer said:


> 🤔
> 
> I've been looking at wages in Denver. Double what they are around here. I'm heading up there next week to look around.


The best time to be in Denver is the winter.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> The best time to be in Denver is the winter.


Lol. I was supposed to go up there in January. 

I kept putting it off because I hadn't finished another job but really it was because I don't like cold weather. 

The high wages worries me a little but as others on this thread have noted, prices will have to be adjusted up.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

observer said:


> 🤔
> 
> I've been looking at wages in Denver. Double what they are around here. I'm heading up there next week to look around.


And so is the cost of living, median rent for a one bedroom is now $1,600, and that's in the cheap part of town, gas is averaging $3.40/gal, median home price is now $500K, trust me stay where you are at


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Frontier Guy said:


> And so is the cost of living, median rent for a one bedroom is now $1,600, and that's in the cheap part of town, gas is averaging $3.40/gal, median home price is now $500K, trust me stay where you are at


Or make more money!


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Frontier Guy said:


> And so is the cost of living, median rent for a one bedroom is now $1,600, and that's in the cheap part of town, gas is averaging $3.40/gal, median home price is now $500K, trust me stay where you are at


It would be a temporary move for me with long distance commute and mostly online monitoring eventually.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Amos69 said:


> Or make more money!


Yepp. I don't uproot my life unless it's worth it for me.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> There's too many people out there that have never lived in a hyper-inflationary period. And us old people are just too stupid to listen to. And, most people can't or won't read a book or learn anything as 'useless' as macro-economics.
> But, they'll learn.
> Unfortunately, the hard way.
> 
> ...


We have all been living in a dramatic inflatory period for almost twenty years now. Everyone seems to be wearing blinders or something. The last 18 months have been hyper.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Amos69 said:


> We have all been living in a dramatic inflatory period for almost twenty years now. Everyone seems to be wearing blinders or something. The last 18 months have been hyper.



If you think the recent inflation is high you should have been around bin the late 1970's and 80's but even then the the highest 3 years were between 10% and 13%, Bad but not hyper

The inflation we are experiencing today is not the result of all the money the government pumped into the system. Its that plus supply chain issues. Its classic: more money chasing fewer goods. As soon as production can catch up we will go back to normal


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

Frontier Guy said:


> And so is the cost of living, median rent for a one bedroom is now $1,600, and that's in the cheap part of town, gas is averaging $3.40/gal, median home price is now $500K, trust me stay where you are at


Wow, I remember renting a furnished 1-BR in Arvada for like $530/mo in the late '00s.  Of course, Uncle Sam was paying for it then since his levees had destroyed my home.


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