# Uber may very well be overplaying their hand in California



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Dara has apparently decided to ditch his "testing and evaluation" and instead go all out to eliminate all of the California changes.

There seems to be a sense of urgency on Dara's part to do this now, while he can still use the Covid driver shortage to his advantage by falsely blaming the reduced service reliability on driver "greed".

He knows that if he waits too long, large numbers of drivers will come back. Both prices and wait times will drop, pax satisfaction will increase, and more and more drivers will get used to the goodies, all of which will make it harder and harder for Dara to take the goodies away without causing a major driver uprising.

This may very well backfire badly on Uber, very badly.

Prop 22 notwithstanding, the California Assembly has regulatory powers, including intrastate commerce. The question is, what is their response going to be?

I can't imagine that Uber's going to be allowed to go back to "business as usual", not with what's happening In London and with AB5 bills being worked on in other states.

By doing this evil deed, Dara has once for all shown to the drivers everywhere that anything Uber gives can and will be taken away at the soonest opportunity. This will be used against Uber in future attempts to rally driver support to pass Prop 22 in other states.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> California
> a major driver uprising.


I will believe that when I see it.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Drivers are only short because of government handouts. Since rideshare is one of the only jobs many people can get due to the difficulty in obtaining w2 work, ants will be abundant when the handouts stop.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I will believe that when I see it.


They had one two years ago, and despite the small number of drivers that participated it got the attention of the news media and politicians, including Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and others.

It provided an important boost to the passage of AB5.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

There is still a drivers lawsuit that was refiled trying to overturn Prop 22 on grounds it was unconstitutional.

On the federal level there is also the PRO Act and Biden can change some things with USDOL.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

observer said:


> There is still a drivers lawsuit that was refiled trying to overturn Prop 22 on grounds it was unconstitutional.
> 
> On the federal level there is also the PRO Act and Biden can change some things with USDOL.


Uber's moves usually have an odor of hubris, but this has the smell of desperation or even panic to it.

Uber originally said they were going do it carefully , and the next thing you know they rushed to get rid of all of them in one fell swoop.



Trafficat said:


> Drivers are only short because of government handouts. Since rideshare is one of the only jobs many people can get due to the difficulty in obtaining w2 work, ants will be abundant when the handouts stop.


This is the point I was making, that Dara is doing this now before large numbers of drivers return.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> This will be used against Uber in future attempts to rally driver support to pass Prop 22 in other states.





Nats121 said:


> This is the point I was making, that Dara is doing this now before large numbers of drivers return.


I agree on both accounts. When they introduced these changes in CA and nowhere else it was pretty telling that they didn't want to give drivers information about the jobs they took nor to let them set prices, but it was used as an excuse in CA.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

I'm surprised they took this long. It was a lock that Uber would take back things that drivers utilized. 

As I said numerous times Uber/Lyft etc. didn't spend $200 million so that drivers could make more money.


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## Director T.Y. Sanchez (Sep 21, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> It provided an important boost to the passage of AB5.


& of course everybody knows how that worked out.


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## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Drivers had an opportunity to make a difference with Prop 22 and the choice has been made. After $200 million to kill AB 5 now we get what the people voted for. 
Enjoy the surge and the minimal wait time while you can.
*The shoe will drop again. *


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

t


Nats121 said:


> The question is, what is their response going to be?


to nuking 'set your own surge'? Doing away with the ride 'range' vs upfront?

Nothing else has changed (yet). Full info ping still there in all it's glory (only item I gasa).

Something else? Not seeing how Calif would get involved? They already tried AB5 and were embarrassed silly by the backfire.


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Seems like a calculated risk. He'd rather risk the temporary shortfall in drivers who quit over this to the alternative of these California features spreading beyond the Golden state. The only way Uber will ever treat drivers like true ICs is if they are forced to by law. They'd rather make up money in the short term because they know any type of legislation that would come down the pike is a ways off. Wouldn't expect the Uber we all know to behave any differently.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> Nothing else has changed (yet). Full info ping still there in all it's glory (only item I gasa).


Don't worry, full trip info will be gone too. At best it will be replaced with a watered down, restricted substitute.

Full trip info empowers drivers more than any of the other features, which is why Uber has always hated it. It wouldn't make sense for Uber to leave that in place but take away the other features.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Don't worry, full trip info will be gone too


yeah, I keep seeing that. And it still stays. An article comes out that was clearly on the 'set your own surge' and everybody's head explode full info ping is going too. Ooops, strike 1; didn't happen. And really, won't. Calif drivers cherry pick and if you take away the destination, they will screen and CANCEL. Which you think concerns Uber more?

Do not piss off the paying customer. It's a thing. Every single corporation lives by it.

I do hope I remain right for longer vs everybody who is wrong today. :thumbup:

Uber does take it away, or changes it too much, I bounce. Ain't going backwards; triggers my OCD. :roflmao:&#128526;&#129335;‍♂


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

mrpjfresh said:


> Seems like a calculated risk. He'd rather risk the temporary shortfall in drivers who quit over this to the alternative of these California features spreading beyond the Golden state.


They're risking a helluva lot more than a temporary driver shortfall, they're burning their bridges to the drivers in other states and countries. The loud and clear message to the drivers everywhere is that nothing Uber gives is safe from being taken away at the first opportunity.



mrpjfresh said:


> The only way Uber will ever treat drivers like true ICs is if they are forced to by law.


So long as Uber sells rides to pax, drivers can never be their own bosses (true ICs).

Uber can certainly treat the drivers exponentially better than they do, they can give the drivers more autonomy, and they can pay them a lot better, but the fact that Uber sells the rides to the pax makes Uber beholden to them, and as such Uber must retain some degree of control over the drivers.



SHalester said:


> eah, I keep seeing that. And it still stays. An article comes out that was clearly on the 'set your own surge' and everybody's head explode full info ping is going too. Ooops, strike 1; didn't happen. And really, won't. Calif drivers cherry pick and if you take away the destination, they will screen and CANCEL. Which you think concerns Uber more?


It's more than an article.

You may be unaware, but a driver in the SF Forum posted Uber's latest memo, which states that the 25% cap as well as the multiplier are being taken away within the next few weeks and that the Upfront Pricing scam is being brought back.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> ich states that the 25% cap as well as the multiplier are being taken away within the next few weeks and that the Upfront Pricing scam is being brought back.


very very aware, since it effects me. It was THAT change that prompted a SF Chronicle article. Article did not mention full info pings at all, but many here went with it anyway. I calmly posted it was more on the 'set your own surge' and tada I was right; a few days later Uber announced the changes were coming.

And yes, nobody has noticed the change on the 25% back to some 'variable' that is not detailed. That alone will cause heads to explode. <sigh>

The web site has more details than the email does, FYI. But doesn't effect you, so no need to peek at it....... 

but, full info ping, still with us and no hints it is going. I'm right until I'm wrong. The best way to be. :roflmao::thumbup:&#128526;


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## Youburr (Aug 22, 2019)

The drivers and SEIU will be victorious in California. Prop 22 will prove to be the biggest waste of corporate dollar in state history if not globally.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Big Lou said:


> Drivers had an opportunity to make a difference with Prop 22 and the choice has been made. After $200 million to kill AB 5 now we get what the people voted for.
> Enjoy the surge and the minimal wait time while you can.
> *The shoe will drop again. *


The impact of the driver vote at the ballot box was minimal.

Most drivers are immigrants, up to 90% in some markets. Most of the immigrants are not citizens, and among the ones that are, many struggle with English and are unlikely to vote.

Uber wasn't concerned about how the drivers would vote, they were concerned with keeping the drivers quiet and "on the reservation".



SHalester said:


> yeah, I keep seeing that. And it still stays. An article comes out that was clearly on the 'set your own surge' and everybody's head explode full info ping is going too. Ooops, strike 1; didn't happen. And really, won't. Calif drivers cherry pick and if you take away the destination, they will screen and CANCEL. Which you think concerns Uber more?


It stays? It's only been a couple of weeks.

The impact on Uber of showing destinations is so much greater than screening as to render any comparison worthless.

Uber would much much much rather have screening than showing destinations to the drivers.

Drivers have been screening for years and the result is 1970s taxi rates.

Uber shows destinations to drivers for 1 year and Uber complains the sky is falling.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Youburr said:


> The drivers and SEIU will be victorious in California. Prop 22 will prove to be the biggest waste of corporate dollar in state history if not globally.


There is absolutely nothing victorious about becoming a minimum wage earning employee of Uber and Lyft. That minimum wage will look pretty sad after deductions and union dues. The minimum wage will look even worse for the limited amount of ants that are hired and find out they have to work the 2AM to 5AM shift in Stabtown, 50 miles from their home, every other Tuesday.


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## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> The impact of the driver vote at the ballot box was minimal.
> 
> Most drivers are immigrants, up to 90% in some markets. Most of the immigrants are not citizens, and among the ones that are, many struggle with English and are unlikely to vote.
> 
> ...


I don't know what decoder ring you have that gives you those numbers regarding immigrants. You are correct about Uber being concerned how drivers vote. Their key target was the general voters which accounted to the majority of votes. There is a reason why they paid over $200 million dollars for the results they got and that's all that counts. They didn't pay that amount to win Prop 22 in order to insure the well being of the drivers.
But.... they convinced enough people that they were.

Don't get slammed by the shoes!


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> t provided an important boost to the passage of AB5.


^^^^^^^^Never mind, he already answered it.\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/


Director T.Y. Sanchez said:


> & of course everybody knows how that worked out.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Big Lou said:


> I don't know what decoder ring you have that gives you those numbers regarding immigrants. You are correct about Uber being concerned how drivers vote. Their key target was the general voters which accounted to the majority of votes. There is a reason why they paid over $200 million dollars for the results they got and that's all that counts. They didn't pay that amount to win Prop 22 in order to insure the well being of the drivers.
> But.... they convinced enough people that they were.
> 
> Don't get slammed by the shoes!


I don't need a decoder ring to know that most of the drivers are immigrants.

Uber acknowledged that years ago. There's been multiple studies on driver demographics.

NYC drivers are 90% immigrant, Seattle is 85%.



SHalester said:


> 25% back to some 'variable' that is not detailed. That alone will cause heads to explode.


The "variable" system is what the other 49 states have. It's Uber's way of saying "we'll take as large a cut as we feel like"


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> The "variable" system is what the other 49 states have


well, it's what Calif had. But interesting they didn't detail it. Almost if they were trying to hide it. They did produce a table of the changes from now to the new. Too lazy to post it here, but there is where they plopped it.

I never hit surges/quests etc, so as long as they pay me miles/time I'm ok. What the pax pays does not interest me. Soak 'em if you can.



Nats121 said:


> It stays? It's only been a couple of weeks.


wut? A few weeks since when? The article that came out? Nope, that was on the changes just announced, just as I suspected.

Unlike 'set your own surge' full info pings doesn't tick off pax's to the point they bolt for Lyft or cease RS all together. THAT is what get Uber's attention. They even alluded to it directly in the announcement as justification. Right?

this is no different when a few here said all the goodies for calif would cease when Prop 22 was passed. Then it was when Prop 22 was effective. Months later, still with us. Well, calif us.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> wut? A few weeks since when? The article that came out? Nope, that was on the changes just announced, just as I suspected.


After I first learned about the trip info restrictions I did some checking on this site for more posts about it. I thought I remembered seeing one from last month dated around the 25th or so. That's where I got the "couple of weeks" from.

I'm not 100% sure about seeing it and if I'm mistaken, then it's been only a few days since it started, which is even sooner.

Either way the restrictions were just introduced by Uber.


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## Youburr (Aug 22, 2019)

Fusion_LUser said:


> There is absolutely nothing victorious about becoming a minimum wage earning employee of Uber and Lyft. That minimum wage will look pretty sad after deductions and union dues. The minimum wage will look even worse for the limited amount of ants that are hired and find out they have to work the 2AM to 5AM shift in Stabtown, 50 miles from their home, every other Tuesday.


What union pays minimum wage?


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## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> I don't need a decoder ring to know that most of the drivers are immigrants.
> 
> Uber acknowledged that years ago. There's been multiple studies on driver demographics.
> 
> ...


Nats...
If you would share your analytical demographics when it comes to Uber drivers, I'd really love to read your source. 
Basically, what you're saying is that your ability to earn a living or even a side hustle can only be accomplished by competing with immigrants, and people of color who do not speak English and aren't very smart like "REAL" Americans?

Think about what you're saying about yourself. Of course I don't believe it's true since any industry has it's fair share of immigrants eager to find a start in America.

Take construction, farm work, sales , gig work (U/L) and too much for me to mention, that hire people with very little English skills and are open to competition from Americans born here, it take certain skills to put yourself above the fray. 
*Is that you?*


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Either way the restrictions were just introduced by Uber.


yes and as noted not on the ping info. On set your surge and other changes that they only list on their web site.

Never got to use the set your own surge, so no big deal. Not getting 75% will be annoying, but whatever. Is what it is. Do, or quit.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Big Lou said:


> Nats...
> If you would share your analytical demographics when it comes to Uber drivers, I'd really love to read your source.
> Basically, what you're saying is that your ability to earn a living or even a side hustle can only be accomplished by competing with immigrants, and people of color who do not speak English and aren't very smart like "REAL" Americans?
> 
> ...


You're obviously very offended by my comments. This isn't a master's thesis or book report, it's a effing blog. You do the work finding sources if you think I'm in error.

Go to a search engine and type in "most ride share drivers are immigrants" and lots of articles will pop up from New Yorker, Quartz, NY Daily News, etc.

They all say 90% of NYC rideshare drivers are immigrants. One of them say MORE than 90%.



SHalester said:


> yes and as noted not on the ping info. On set your surge and other changes that they only list on their web site.
> 
> Never got to use the set your own surge, so no big deal. Not getting 75% will be annoying, but whatever. Is what it is. Do, or quit.


As I've said on many occasions, the drivers are going to need the govt to step in.

Assuming they don't make the mistake of copying the NYC model, the most likely (and acceptable to the riding public) outcome will be mandating higher pay rates a la Seattle, but even higher.

I doubt trip info or drivers setting their own multipliers will make the cut because they're not popular with the pax, and there are a lot more pax than there are drivers, especially at the ballot box where it really counts for the politicians.

We shall see


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> the drivers are going to need the govt to step in.


that was tried in calif. Crash n burn. Voters spoke and we have prop 22.

For now there is no threat real or perceived to the full info ping. Taking it away will cause Uber more heartburn as cherry picking and cancels will skyrocket. Costs them nothing to offer it and makes drivers happier.

Drive pass was nuked and there wasn't even a ripple from drivers.

Set your own surge/fee changes won't cause much of a ripple either. Those who did the 5.x and got pings, they might object some......


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> that was tried in calif. Crash n burn. Voters spoke and we have prop 22.
> 
> For now there is no threat real or perceived to the full info ping. Taking it away will cause Uber more heartburn as cherry picking and cancels will skyrocket. Costs them nothing to offer it and makes drivers happier.
> 
> ...


Prop 22 or not, the CA govt has the legal authority to regulate the RS companies.

It was done in Seattle and NYC and it can be done in CA as well.

If CA decides to mandate higher pay rates for the drivers they can and will do it for the reasons I've already stated.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

but it hasn'


Nats121 said:


> it can be done in CA as well.


maybe, but there is no run to do anything and if they were going they would have by now, right? And they saw what happened with Prop 22; there is no appetite to visit the issue again.

No worries for you anyway, right? 

Only one way something is 'done' and that is if the paying customer, in great numbers, begin to complain. Until that happens, ain't happening here.

hey, start the ball rolling in your state. :roflmao:


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> For now there is no threat real or perceived to the full info ping.


No "perceived" threat? That's your perception only.



SHalester said:


> Taking it away will cause Uber more heartburn as cherry picking and cancels will skyrocket. Costs them nothing to offer it and makes drivers happier.


You're totally wrong on both points.

In the absence of trip info, cherrypicking PLUMMETS

You can't cherrypick effectively without knowing the destinations, period. It's a crapshoot at best without trip info.

Screening will probably increase but it's an inferior and risky substitute for seeing destinations during the pings. Screening has been going on for years and drivers are still being paid 1970s taxi rates.

Showing destinations costs Uber a fortune, which is why they've fought hard to keep the destinations hidden.

Keeping destinations hidden from drivers has cost the drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost earnings over the years and put BILLIONS of extra dollars into the coffers of the RS companies. This is why the RS companies are so vigorously opposed to showing destinations to the drivers.



SHalester said:


> maybe, but there is no run to do anything and if they were going they would have by now, right?


I don't know what's going thru the minds of the CA govt. Maybe they're waiting to make their next move, maybe they're sulking, maybe they think the public has spoken. There's lots of maybes on this.

The recall movement is getting lots of attention and I can't help but suspect that Uber may be using it as an opportunity to do their evil deeds while attention is being focused elsewhere.



SHalester said:


> No worries for you anyway, right?


What happens in CA will impact every state.



SHalester said:


> Only one way something is 'done' and that is if the paying customer, in great numbers, begin to complain. Until that happens, ain't happening here.


If "something" means something for the drivers, that's not what happened with CA or NYC or Seattle.

In all three of those markets, major changes were made because of DRIVER complaints. Most of the paying public has been satisfied with the status quo.


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## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

I'm not going down the demographic breakdown on the R/S drivers , and to what end?

In so far as the California R/S market compared to the rest of the nation, I think most markets will align somehow into a uniform policy of sorts.

California AB 5 set the new standards for drivers and gig workers overall. Problem with that law was that it was a broad brush and poorly written in the attempt to establish a one size fits all in the gig industry. Gig workers go beyond drivers, although it started with drivers in mind. Then you have court reporters, screenwriters, nail and hair salon workers and a bevy of other types of work that falls under the gig catagory.

Prob 22 was an attempt to nullify AB 5 with the help of $200 million dollars that Uber poured into the campaign. Which turned out to to be a success for Uber at the expense of the supporting drivers expectations. I don't suppose the California legislators have the stomach to continue any further. Can you blame them?

I was hoping just to plug in and start driving as before soon , but today..... I just don't know what to expect, but it doesn't look good. 
[HEADING=2] [/HEADING]


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> No "perceived" threat? That's your perception only.


yeah, my perception from being in the state, right. Your reality is from how far away? Show me the noise. Post the links. I'm curious to see where the fire is.

Still, no present threat to the all power, all info ping. R I G H T?

The SF Chron article got that part completely wrong.

How does full info ping in Calif effect you beyond you really really wanting it? the possibility Uber was going to roll it out to other states is zero.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)




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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

We demand......

YEAH, we should STRIKE.

We demand......  :roflmao:


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

SHalester said:


> We demand......
> 
> YEAH, we should STRIKE.
> 
> We demand......  :roflmao:


What can I say I like demanding.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Mole said:


> What can I say I like demanding.


does your foot go down and your face turn red at the same time? :roflmao:

Trying to noodle if every regular poster here demanded something of Uber; would Uber even know it happened? You know, the whole tree falling in the forest thing?

This will require more thought.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

SHalester said:


> does your foot go down and your face turn red at the same time? :roflmao:
> 
> Trying to noodle if every regular poster here demanded something of Uber; would Uber even know it happened? You know, the whole tree falling in the forest thing?
> 
> This will require more thought.


Lol maybe. Actually I'm turning off the app and going for a sunset walk.


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## actsholy (Jul 3, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Dara has apparently decided to ditch his "testing and evaluation" and instead go all out to eliminate all of the California changes.
> 
> There seems to be a sense of urgency on Dara's part to do this now, while he can still use the Covid driver shortage to his advantage by falsely blaming the reduced service reliability on driver "greed".
> 
> ...


Dare is a multi billionaire he can now take or leave Uber. Ants will go where the sugar is Dara had the quote " Driver's are Mathematically challenged " and it's true.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

actsholy said:


> Dare is a multi billionaire he can now take or leave Uber. Ants will go where the sugar is Dara had the quote " Driver's are Mathematically challenged " and it's true.


He's certainly rich but he's not a multi-billionaire.

His net worth is around $200 million, most of it in Uber stock.

Between his huge salary and financial stake in Uber, it's safe to say he cares a lot about what happens to Uber.


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## Legendary Status (Dec 1, 2020)

New2This said:


> I'm surprised they took this long. It was a lock that Uber would take back things that drivers utilized.
> 
> As I said numerous times Uber/Lyft etc. didn't spend $200 million so that drivers could make more money.


Uber didn't want drivers to make more than their engineers, so they have to axe multiplier and destination.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> You're obviously very offended by my comments. This isn't a master's thesis or book report, it's a effing blog. You do the work finding sources if you think I'm in error.
> 
> Go to a search engine and type in "most ride share drivers are immigrants" and lots of articles will pop up from New Yorker, Quartz, NY Daily News, etc.
> 
> ...


It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the majority of drivers are immigrants. Just watch the news videos of attacks on drivers or the YouTube videos of drivers kicking out rude customers. It's usually an immigrant driver behind the wheel. This has been fairly consistent the last few years just look around. Of course it will vary by regional location.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> He's certainly rich but he's not a multi-billionaire.
> 
> His net worth is around $200 million, most of it in Uber stock.
> 
> Between his huge salary and financial stake in Uber, it's safe to say he cares a lot about what happens to Uber.


I hope he breaks his leg in a crosswalk.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> yeah, my perception from being in the state, right. Your reality is from how far away? Show me the noise. Post the links. I'm curious to see where the fire is.


Your living in CA doesn't provide you any more info into what Dara will or won't do than someone living in Chicago, NY, or Pluto. It's unlikely but possible that Dara himself is unsure of what to do.

All anyone can do is look at various scenarios as well as Uber's behavioral history and speculate from there.

When you say "noise" I'm gonna guess you mean driver reaction. Most of the posters I've seen believe trip info is being taken away, and most are also claiming they thought Uber would do this after the election.

I didn't think Dara would do this at this point with London and other dangers to Uber lurking out there, but he's going to apparently.



ThrowInTheTowel said:


> It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the majority of drivers are immigrants. Just watch the news videos of attacks on drivers or the YouTube videos of drivers kicking out rude customers. It's usually an immigrant driver behind the wheel. This has been fairly consistent the last few years just look around. Of course it will vary by regional location.


It was consistent before Uber existed. The taxi business has been mostly immigrant for years. The same with pizza delivery, food delivery, and "IC" courier work.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

This isn't a surprise at all to me, the only surprise is how long these features lasted before uber clawed them away.

Dhara is every bit as evil as TK is. The only difference is that this pay cut is being spun as a way of punishing greedy racist drivers. The more drivers fight against it the more racist ya'll look.

He's absolutely not overplaying his hand, he's working PR in a way to justify a paycut and make it look like a "good thing".

I've said this 1000 times, the next paycut is around the corner... This is one of the only pay increases I can think of, and it was temporary to sucker you guys into passing prop 22, unlike the temporary paycuts that never went away.

You've already lost the battle to keep the carrot.

BLM will be supporting Dhara taking it out of your mouth. Uber can just "Suggest" that black riders have a higher chance of never getting picked up with these "Features" active than before and you'll never make any progress in keeping them.

Dhara made it a race issue, in 2021 there's *nothing* you can do.

You trusted uber and got a not-pay-raise with prop 22s 130% of min wage and a few features.. The features are going away, and all you have left is being an IC for the most evil company i've ever had the displeasure of working with.

Uber is going to keep spouting data from earnings from 5 years ago to justify not making drivers employees.

The only thing I have to say is that if uber did the right thing and paid fairly it wouldn't matter if you were ICs or employees. Employee classification is what needs to exist in our society to keep people with no real bargaining power from getting screwed and forced to work at slave wages. That's what driving a cab (or whatever) is. The drivers have no bargaining power, they never did.

In Orlando the government had to step in and set the per mile rates for taxis. They also had to go in and set the taxi rental prices for drivers.

Orlando tried to regulate uber, they bent over backwards to set up a permitting classification for uber. Uber simply ignored the local regulations and went to the state to get more favorable lower paying terms.

You all lost the moment you signed up to drive for uber, and whatever positives there are are slowly rotting away around you, like a post apocalyptic hell-hole. The good days in Orlando are so long ago that... it's beyond hope of ever getting better. I'm going to say that you just need to burn everything down and start over.

Winning the game isn't an option, your playing a rigged casino game. Your only option is to walk away and quit playing.

I'm tired of being the Canary. I really am... my voice is hoarse from years of shouting "Uber's going to screw you, don't trust them". The only difference between me and a green driver is that I've seen way too many people get screwed over the years.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I will believe that when I see it.


Not happening.


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## Loch Ness Driver (Mar 23, 2021)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I will believe that when I see it.





Nats121 said:


> They had one two years ago, and despite the small number of drivers that participated it got the attention of the news media and politicians, including Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and others.
> 
> It provided an important boost to the passage of AB5.


The number of drivers driving around in circles around Uber's headquarters will increase to about 14, and the number of hours of the boycott will be TWO 12h days. Roughly a 100% increase from the previous uprising


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Loch Ness Driver said:


> The number of drivers driving around in circles around Uber's headquarters will increase to about 14, and the number of hours of the boycott will be TWO 12h days. Roughly a 100% increase from the previous uprising


It's not the size of the protest that counts, it's the attention that it gets from the media and the politicians that counts.

That small protest in 2019 got lots of media and political attention and provided important momentum for the passage of AB5, despite all of the money Uber and the other companies threw at the politicians to vote against it.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> This isn't a surprise at all to me, the only surprise is how long these features lasted before uber clawed them away.
> 
> Dhara is every bit as evil as TK is. The only difference is that this pay cut is being spun as a way of punishing greedy racist drivers. The more drivers fight against it the more racist ya'll look.
> 
> ...


With the events in London as well as AB5-type of legislation in other states, I don't believe Prop 22 will be anywhere near enough to keep the govt off Uber's back in CA or any other state that passes AB5-type of regulation.

And by taking away the CA features and failing to provide something halfway decent as a "trade", Uber will burn their much needed bridges with drivers all over the country. Uber will need those bridges if AB5 passes in other states and they won't have them.

Seattle already increased driver pay a couple years ago and now the govt wants to increase it even more.

In all likelihood CA will do the same thing.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Youburr said:


> The drivers and SEIU will be victorious in California. Prop 22 will prove to be the biggest waste of corporate dollar in state history if not globally.


Or. Ot only us, but every employee of every business in the state will be screwed for the next 50 years. And it will spread nationwide.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

The funny part is, if they just wait for the pandemic to end, the ants would flood back in and break the hold that the few willing drivers there are now have. 


Nats121 said:


> You're obviously very offended by my comments. This isn't a master's thesis or book report, it's a effing blog. You do the work finding sources if you think I'm in error.
> 
> Go to a search engine and type in "most ride share drivers are immigrants" and lots of articles will pop up from New Yorker, Quartz, NY Daily News, etc.
> 
> ...


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## Loch Ness Driver (Mar 23, 2021)

somedriverguy said:


> The funny part is, if they just wait for the pandemic to end, the ants would flood back in and break the hold that the few willing drivers there are now have.


Did you read what @Nats121 posted?


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Loch Ness Driver said:


> Did you read what @Nats121 posted?


I think we're talking about two diffrent aspects of the same problem. You can rest assured if the state steps in and does anything about driver pay that UBER will weasle a way around it cuz the state won't ask anybody who knows how it works for input.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Most of the posters I've seen believe trip info is being taken away, and most are also claiming they thought Uber would do this after the election.


and they are all wrong, so far. Even a journalist got it way wrong.

Why fuss and muss on something that hasn't happened yet? Is that like pre-warming an oven?


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## Loch Ness Driver (Mar 23, 2021)

Pre-warming ovens is for suckers


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## Director T.Y. Sanchez (Sep 21, 2019)

SHalester said:


> Why fuss and muss on something that hasn't happened yet? Is that like pre-warming an oven?


Right. Exactly. Why should I be worried about a tornado or fire that hasn't happened? In fact, dadgummit, I'm calling the bank where my mortgage is at tomorrow & telling them I ain't paying for no HO insurance no more.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Director T.Y. Sanchez said:


> HO insurance no more.


oh, please do that. don't read your mortgage agreement. Watch what happens. You won't be happy.

But, you got my drift, just say so.

You ain't even in Calif, so why on earth would YOU worry? Like the feeling?  &#129335;‍♂


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## NotMe (Sep 5, 2017)

The only company I hate more then uber is Lyft. Those suckers don’t even bother to pretend they doing something for drivers. I wish uber will not take all good stuff away and at least ping info will stay for another year or two. I looked in to their table and looks like 3 things will happen: no multiplier a.k. back to flat surge, no set your own fare and uber cut is now unknown instead of “solid” 25%. Interesting to know what will happen if I negotiate my own price with rider? Will they start sending all that pathetic emails as they used to?


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Fusion_LUser said:


> There is absolutely nothing victorious about becoming a minimum wage earning employee of Uber and Lyft. That minimum wage will look pretty sad after deductions and union dues. The minimum wage will look even worse for the limited amount of ants that are hired and find out they have to work the 2AM to 5AM shift in Stabtown, 50 miles from their home, every other Tuesday.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

wallae said:


>


I rather like this version of that tune. You know that you have arrived when _____________________________________.

Interviewer: "How good a musician do you think that you are, Mr. Knopfler?"
MK: "Oh, I don't know. I do have Clapton playing rhythm for me, Sting singing back-up and Phil Collins doing the percussion.":


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## Director T.Y. Sanchez (Sep 21, 2019)

SHalester said:


> oh, please do that. don't read your mortgage agreement. Watch what happens. You won't be happy.
> 
> But, you got my drift, just say so.


But you don't seem to understand. Why worry about a fire that ain't burnt nothing yet, right? So if I can't worry about it, why should the bank get to worry about it?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

somedriverguy said:


> The funny part is, if they just wait for the pandemic to end, the ants would flood back in and break the hold that the few willing drivers there are now have


The problem with your scenario above is the assumption that Uber wanted those features to succeed. They didn't. Uber wants them GONE.

Uber HATES every one of those features because they put MORE MONEY into the drivers' pockets and LESS MONEY into Uber's coffers.

Dara's concerned that if those features are allowed to remain in place when large numbers of drivers return, service will improve markedly and pax satisfaction will also increase markedly.

In other words, the features will SUCCEED, and become more entrenched and harder for Uber to take away from a much larger "army" of drivers who are making more money than they ever have before at this job. That army of drivers will likely raise a large fuss about losing the features that put all of that additional money into their pockets.

This is why I believe Dara's doing it now, while he still has the opportunity to fraudulently blame driver greed for the diminished service quality and higher surge prices that in fact were caused by the Covid driver shortage.



SHalester said:


> and they are all wrong, so far. Even a journalist got it way wrong.
> 
> Why fuss and muss on something that hasn't happened yet? Is that like pre-warming an oven?


When Uber says "for the time being", that translates to "when we feel like taking it away we will".

If you want to call being prepared "fussing and mussing", go right ahead.

Barring unusual events, trip info will be taken away.

The irony of this whole thing is that if the CA govt steps in and mandates much higher pay rates, it'll cost Uber a lot MORE money than if they'd left all of the features intact.

Seattle raised driver pay in 2018 to $1.17 per mile and now they want to raise it to taxi levels. If that happens in CA, Dara will wish he never took the features away.

BTW, you keep asking why drivers outside of CA care about the events in CA. You've been driving more than enough time to know that what happens in any market can impact every market, especially when the event is a major one like this.

Every heard of the Charlotte Surge? That small city (compared to LA, Chicago,etc) is where the sticky surge started and went nationwide.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> The problem with your scenario above is the assumption that Uber wanted those features to succeed. They didn't. Uber wants them GONE.
> 
> Uber HATES every one of those features because they put MORE MONEY into the drivers' pockets and LESS MONEY into Uber's coffers.
> 
> ...


I don't think they needed to fear it because I've read posts in the FB groups and on Reddit subs. I'm glad it makes him look super stupid to say "we are having a driver shortage, so we are going to cut their pay to punish them, in the hopes that more people will come back to drive"


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Youburr said:


> What union pays minimum wage?


You actually believe a no-skill job like rideshare will get more than minimum wage? HA HA HA HA HA HA. Talk about delusional.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Barring unusual events, trip info will be taken away.


So you and one other keep saying over and over; now been months I've seen that. First it was just before Prop 22 passed. Then it was shortly after it passed. Now it's some mystery date. A few days ago it was after a journalist really screwed the pooch on an article and got it wrong what WAS announced that will be changing.

I'd rather be right for a long time, then wrong the entire time.

Still have not seen a credible reason to take it away that won't cause Uber even more headaches.

AND, to me, doesn't matter; they remove the destination I'll cease going online with uber and go with my 2nd RS gig. Easy, peasy.

Safe bet none of the goodies will go to any other state; never was, tho Uber said they were 'looking' into it. Ha. Sure they were.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Fusion_LUser said:


> You actually believe a no-skill job like rideshare will get more than minimum wage? HA HA HA HA HA HA. Talk about delusional.


"No-skill" compared to what?

It's pretty amazing that a no-skill job would have such a massive turnover of drivers who quit because they can't make a go of it.

It's also amazing that there would be websites such as this with thousands of posts of people seeking advice and tips on how to do this "no-skill" job as well as thousands of complaints of things going wrong in this no-skill job.

On top of that there's lots of how-to rideshare videos on Youtube. There's even people who do coaching on rideshare.

Anyone with a reasonable driving record and no felonies can become a rideshare driver. It takes skill to SUCCEED at ridehsare.

Most anyone can hit a golf ball, but very few people possess the skill to hit a golf ball WELL.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Fusion_LUser said:


> You actually believe a no-skill job like rideshare will get more than minimum wage? HA HA HA HA HA HA. Talk about delusional.


Min wage would be a SIGNIFICANT increase over what it pays in Orlando.

By IRS standards min wage is close to $19-21 an hour.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> "No-skill" compared to what?


No-skill when compared to anything from "You want fries with that?" to "Thanks for visiting Wal*Mart, come again." to "Jerry for the 9th time you have to empty the garbage in all rooms. I've told you this over and over why can't you do your job correctly?"

Like you said anyone with a reasonable driving record, no felonies and enough brain power to put a car in gear and follow a map telling you where to go can do ride-share. Some of these type of people can't even get a order right or empty out all the garbage cans without someone else telling them how to do it and they are usually welcomed in the rideshare world!

The only difference between rideshare jobs and cooking a batch of fries at your local eat-n-puke is that if you know how to work the system you can make far more than minimum wage.

For those who don't have the skills maybe they should move on to something better. If this is all they can do in life perhaps they should be grateful that they even have a job...


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## Loch Ness Driver (Mar 23, 2021)

Fcking Jerry...


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## actsholy (Jul 3, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> He's certainly rich but he's not a multi-billionaire.
> 
> His net worth is around $200 million, most of it in Uber stock.
> 
> Between his huge salary and financial stake in Uber, it's safe to say he cares a lot about what happens to Uber.





Nats121 said:


> He's certainly rich but he's not a multi-billionaire.
> 
> His net worth is around $200 million, most of it in Uber stock.
> 
> Between his huge salary and financial stake in Uber, it's safe to say he cares a lot about what happens to Uber.


Uber CEO's net worth is $5.3 billion dollars, and the company itself is valued as high as $50 billion. *Travis Kalanick* is the billionaire cofounder of the ride-hailing app Uber


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## Loch Ness Driver (Mar 23, 2021)

I'd estimate he's worth about tree fiddy


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

actsholy said:


> Uber CEO's net worth is $5.3 billion dollars, and the company itself is valued as high as $50 billion. *Travis Kalanick* is the billionaire cofounder of the ride-hailing app Uber


Uber co-founder Travis Kalanick resigned as CEO in 2017. He's worth approximately $5 billions.

His successor, Dara K. took over as CEO in 2017 and is worth about $200 million.


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## Nyte Ryder (Jul 31, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Dara has apparently decided to ditch his "testing and evaluation" and instead go all out to eliminate all of the California changes.
> 
> There seems to be a sense of urgency on Dara's part to do this now, while he can still use the Covid driver shortage to his advantage by falsely blaming the reduced service reliability on driver "greed".
> 
> ...


He just seems to be trying to do all he can to ruin his business 😳


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## WEY00L (Mar 6, 2019)

SHalester said:


> So you and one other keep saying over and over; now been months I've seen that. First it was just before Prop 22 passed. Then it was shortly after it passed. Now it's some mystery date. A few days ago it was after a journalist really screwed the pooch on an article and got it wrong what WAS announced that will be changing.
> 
> I'd rather be right for a long time, then wrong the entire time.
> 
> ...


FYI
Uber just sent notice to drivers in CA that if they want to receive trip info they have to accept 4 out of 10 pings.
Right now the pings for $2-$3 rides are 10+ miles away.
It will be impossible to maintain a 40% acceptance rate.

Guess you were wrong.


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## bone-aching-work (Jul 12, 2020)

WEY00L said:


> Guess you were wrong.


He's wrong about everything and smug as hell about it.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

WEY00L said:


> Uber just sent notice to drivers in CA


I saw. Seems a single city as a 'test'. If test fails, then it won't spread, right? Uber is clearly going after cherry pickers to the point cherry pickers are going to have to think about the 'cost' of cherry picking. 

Uber is looking to change behaviors; will certainly change mine. No destination info, I'll accept no pings. I could live with 6/10 to keep it; unless pool comes back and all my pings are pool. They are a no go for me as well. 

But really the drivers in OC, need to fail the test, big time; big fat F for failure so it doesn't spread to other parts of Calif.


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## WEY00L (Mar 6, 2019)

SHalester said:


> I saw. Seems a single city as a 'test'. If test fails, then it won't spread, right? Uber is clearly going after cherry pickers to the point cherry pickers are going to have to think about the 'cost' of cherry picking.
> 
> Uber is looking to change behaviors; will certainly change mine. No destination info, I'll accept no pings. I could live with 6/10 to keep it; unless pool comes back and all my pings are pool. They are a no go for me as well.
> 
> But really the drivers in OC, need to fail the test, big time; big fat F for failure so it doesn't spread to other parts of Calif.


It is more than just one city.
Some cities have 60% and others like OC have 40%.
It is impossible to maintain even 40% if you ignore rides 10+ miles away.
Before this change I turnd my app on and got pings, 20 mins south, 20 mins north, and 20 mins east.
The only reason I didn't get any 20 mins to the west is they would have had to make it from the Pacific ocean.

This is just an excuse to blame it on the drivers before they take it away permanently.
There will be too many shorties getting ignored.
@Nats121 pretty much called this 100%.
You were 100% wrong.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

WEY00L said:


> You were 100% wrong.


nope. I'm still 100% correct. AND have been since the drop. There has been no change yet; only 'tests' in a few cities (believe I left open it was more than just OC).

You can't he right about something when since the drop you were 'guessing' or speculating. Means you were dead wrong and continue to be.

Whereas I am right until it (or something like it) rolls to all of Calif. That day is not here now; nor will it be here soon.

Right?

this is fun.


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## WEY00L (Mar 6, 2019)

SHalester said:


> nope. I'm still 100% correct. AND have been since the drop. There has been no change yet; only 'tests' in a few cities (believe I left open it was more than just OC).
> 
> You can't he right about something when since the drop you were 'guessing' or speculating. Means you were dead wrong and continue to be.
> 
> ...


The hand writing is on the wall.
Drivers have been weighed in the balance and found wanting trip info,
Say goodbye to trip info when wait times increase even further.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

WEY00L said:


> Say goodbye to trip info when wait times increase even further.


maybe, maybe not. Right this second it is not gone. And even the testing it only goes away if a driver is doing extreme cherry picking.

Wanna bet those in the 'test' will change their behavior? I know I would.

My reality, anyway, is it ain't in my market; so no big deal.


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## WEY00L (Mar 6, 2019)

SHalester said:


> nope. I'm still 100% correct. AND have been since the drop. There has been no change yet; only 'tests' in a few cities (believe I left open it was more than just OC).
> 
> You can't he right about something when since the drop you were 'guessing' or speculating. Means you were dead wrong and continue to be.
> 
> ...


Still not big enough to admit you were wrong?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

WEY00L said:


> Still not big enough to admit you were wrong?


about what? the 5/10 is still not in my market. Has not been announced for full roll out. Still in testing mostly in Southern Calif.

Are you willing to admit you had it wrong all this time and even if there is a full roll out I'll ONLY begin to be wrong? Noodle that for a moment.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

WEY00L said:


> Still not big enough to admit you were wrong?


Just picture him on the Titanic, which is taking on water after it struck the iceberg arguing that the ship won't sink.

He continues arguing as the ship starts to list by saying "no seawater has touched my ankles and even if it eventually does, I was correct for two hours. It's better to be correct for two hours than be wrong the whole time."

How do you argue with impeccable logic like that?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> How do you argue with impeccable logic like that?


How does one debate somebody who is 100% upset all the time? 

As noted over n over the 5/10 hasn't arrived and isn't in full roll-out. When it does, then and only then will I be 'wrong', tho I've been right for 18 months now.

I realize you are totally butthurt over RS and what happened over the YEARS. Went from being a 'good' gig for you, to being less. Most would have moved on, right? yeah, beating a dead horse, got it.

Your ship has sunk, you are too proud to admit you opted to stay ON the ship on the way down. Life boats were an option. Just saying.

When it comes to this issue in Calif you have been wrong the entire time and I've been right and still right. and even when it goes to full roll-out, we aren't losing full info pings 'just because'. There is a difference. 

Play again, it's free.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> How does one debate somebody who is 100% upset all the time?





SHalester said:


> I realize you are totally butthurt over RS and what happened over the YEARS. Went from being a 'good' gig for you, to being less. Most would have moved on, right? yeah, beating a dead horse, got it.





SHalester said:


> Your ship has sunk, you are too proud to admit you opted to stay ON the ship on the way down. Life boats were an option. Just saying.


Whatever alleged "motives" I have for posting on this website, the end product, which are my posts, are always crystal clear. Agree or disagree with them, no one has to try to decipher where I stand on a topic and the meaning of my points.

When you're unable to debate my points, you try attacking my alleged "motives" (disgruntled, bitter Uber driver).

Your posts on the other hand are frequently incoherent, and appear to have been written by a 1980s Valley Girl suffering from severe PMS.


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