# DoubleDash or Double Trouble?



## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

​During the thick of the pandemic last year, online food delivery company DoorDash expanded its offerings to include convenience store delivery. Now, DoorDash customers in the U.S. and Canada can shop across multiple stores and categories in a single order.

With DoubleDash, as the program is called, customers can now tack onto your order of a pad thai dinner some tampons and ice cream from the local 7-Eleven. In most cases, it’ll all be brought to them by the same delivery person in one bundle, allowing customers to forgo any additional delivery fees.

The goal for customers is to increase convenience while preserving price expectations. For local businesses, there’s a possibility that some light prodding of the customer while they’re hungry and uninterested in leaving their homes will lead to more business. And for DoorDash, this move is another step toward making the app the ever-coveted “one-stop-shop” for all things delivery.








“Ever since we began offering convenience as a category on DoorDash over a year ago, we’ve observed that many customers organically order their restaurant meal and then place another order for convenience items within a 30-minute window,” Fuad Hannon, DoorDash’s head of new verticals, told TechCrunch. “We are always thinking about ways to improve our platform to serve our customers’ needs and after observing this consumer behavior, we wanted to make this process easier and more affordable for consumers.”


With DoubleDash, after a customer place their original order, a pop-up on the app will entice them with additional items from nearby stores. Customers can also look for the DoubleDash option on the in-app map to search for nearby stores. Depending on the customer’s location and proximity to the merchant, anywhere from one to five merchants will show up on the map. Customers can add on as much or as little as they want for the second order, as there’s no minimum order size.

Delivery workers, or “Dashers,” will be able to collect tips on both the first restaurant order and the second merchant order, according to the company. Dashers can use DoorDash’s logistics platform to accept both orders at once and deliver them together without deviating from the primary route, thus potentially increasing earnings without going too far out of their way.

This new feature is available with 7-Eleven, Walgreens, Wawa, QuickChek, the Ice Cream Shop and DashMart, a DoorDash-owned convenience and grocery store. DoorDash is also piloting the ability to partner local restaurants with DoubleDash in several markets like Los Angeles, Denver and Portland, so if you want to start with sushi and end with a chocolate torte, it’ll be just a little bit cheaper and easier to do so.

“We are excited to be a part of DoorDash’s newest endeavor, DoubleDash, and for the opportunity to reach new customers and drive additional sales for our business,” said Benjamin D. Arreola, owner of Señor G’s Fresh & Healthy Mexican Food in Playa Del Rey, California, in a statement.










With DoubleDash, DoorDash users can tack on multiple orders without additional fees – TechCrunch


During the thick of the pandemic last year, online food delivery company DoorDash expanded its offerings to include convenience store delivery. Now, DoorDash customers in the U.S. and Canada can shop across multiple stores and categories in a single order. With DoubleDash, as the program is called,…




techcrunch.com


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

MHR said:


> View attachment 608456
> 
> ​During the thick of the pandemic last year, online food delivery company DoorDash expanded its offerings to include convenience store delivery. Now, DoorDash customers in the U.S. and Canada can shop across multiple stores and categories in a single order.
> 
> ...


Yup, drivers are now going to run errands and do extra work for no pay. If pax are not paying for the driver's time, the DD driver willl eat the loss and get a pay rate cut for extra unpaid work.

Brilliant strategy to piss off more drivers.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

They messed up every single double order I took. Something tells me this is going south FAST.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Depends how they do it.

UberEATS handles 7-11 well. I just show up at 7-11 and the clerk gives me a bag. Couldn't be easier.

When I used to do Postmates it was a royal cluster****. They'd send us to the 7-11 to get a pizza and the 7-11 says they don't have any. They expected us to shop the store to find all the items. And then they expected us to pay the cashier at the end. Got burned when I brought all the items to the register only for the customer to cancel the order, and the clerks said I had to pay for the fountain drinks out of my own pocket since I already filled the drinks, which I proceeded to abandon on his counter after paying for since I don't drink them.


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

What can possibly go wrong here?


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## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

I like this, the ability to stiff twice in one order.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

MHR said:


> With DoubleDash, after a customer place their original order, a pop-up on the app will entice them with additional items from nearby stores.


Customers can now avoid public embarrassment by allowing their dashers to stand in a busy line to purchase that case of Adult Incontinent Diapers.


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## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

Uber's Guber said:


> Customers can now avoid public embarrassment by allowing their dashers to stand in a busy line to purchase that case of Adult Incontinent Diapers.


They did specifically state "pad Thai and tampons" so you're not wrong. 🤣


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> UberEATS handles 7-11 well. I just show up at 7-11 and the clerk gives me a bag. Couldn't be easier.


That's not how DD does it.


Trafficat said:


> They expected us to shop the store to find all the items.


Yes, this is how DD does it. I will not do any CVS, Walgreens, etc, etc, unless the pay is right AND it's 3-4 items max. The problem is that there isn't live time inventory and these places don't carry a large quantity of items so it's either out of stock or they don't even carry it.

If it's more than 3-4 items then the odds of them having them all are nil and then you're supposed to call the customer for substitutes. MAJOR time waste trying to pick up the items at those places.

In addition, a majority of the order are for candy and drinks, not health and beauty aides. Do you want to waste your time calling customers to tell them CVS is out of 20 ounce Berry Sour patch bags but they do have 12 ounce Lemon Sour Patch Bags, do you want them?

I have done very few and almost each time either they don't have the shit or it's in a different size. I don't call the customer, I just substitute for something and then tell them "they" didn't have X and "they" substituted Y.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Seamus said:


> That's not how DD does it.
> 
> Yes, this is how DD does it. I will not do any CVS, Walgreens, etc, etc, unless the pay is right AND it's 3-4 items max. The problem is that there isn't live time inventory and these places don't carry a large quantity of items so it's either out of stock or they don't even carry it.
> 
> ...


Yeah, and if Walgreens has the one size bigger, you are not allowed to buy it. Because the card won't go through. And if you call the customer, they will ask for it, and you have to tell them they can't substitute upwards.
Let alone searching the store for things. The last time I did a Walgreens, I asked a clerk for help finding stuff. She said that she would help me this once, because they are not allowed to help us. And that was the LAST time I went to Walgreens.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Rickos69 said:


> Yeah, and if Walgreens has the one size bigger, you are not allowed to buy it. Because the card won't go through. And if you call the customer, they will ask for it, and you have to tell them they can't substitute upwards.
> Let alone searching the store for things. The last time I did a Walgreens, I asked a clerk for help finding stuff. She said that she would help me this once, because they are not allowed to help us. And that was the LAST time I went to Walgreens.


How does DD compare to Instacart?


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> How does DD compare to Instacart?


DoorDash will have walmart shop for you, but they will make you wait in the parking lot 45 minutes for it. The payout will be $5 and you are delivering 10 miles away.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Rickos69 said:


> Yeah, and if Walgreens has the one size bigger, you are not allowed to buy it. Because the card won't go through. And if you call the customer, they will ask for it, and you have to tell them they can't substitute upwards.
> Let alone searching the store for things. The last time I did a Walgreens, I asked a clerk for help finding stuff. She said that she would help me this once, because they are not allowed to help us. And that was the LAST time I went to Walgreens.


Plus they can be for awkward items. Besides tampons I've had Condoms and KY "His and Hers" lube. I brought a box of KY "His and Hers" Lube and on the way was imagining upon arrival some hot lady telling me "the his is for you"! What actually happened is some huge Roller Derby Queen opened the door smiled and thanked me. It burned a very disturbing image that I couldn't shake the rest of the night!!!


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Since we are talking about Doordash, I got this mail from them today. They are so happy with me!!!
I work every evening. Meaning I worked Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday already. And in those 3 dinner rushes...


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Rickos69 said:


> Since we are talking about Doordash, I got this mail from them today. They are so happy with me!!!
> I work every evening. Meaning I worked Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday already. And in those 3 dinner rushes...
> View attachment 608482


They meant to say "That's double the trash"


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I never even tried, there's just no way I'm going through the anguish of trying to shop for someone, signed up for instacart and never took a single job once I figured out what they were expecting.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Seamus said:


> They meant to say "That's double the trash"


And, last night at around 8:30, GH posted a notice, which of course disappeared almost immediately, but I found it again at the bottom of the earnings screen.
Complete 3 deliveries between now and 9:15 and get $6 extra.    
So I immediately went offline and went home.
I truly wonder what makes them think that it is such a great offer.
Do they have some drivers that keep telling them Thank you Sir, may I have another?


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Here's my favorite DoorDash offer to date. Mind you, on the same week I got an offer from Lyft, 20 rides for $250 bonus (not guarantee).


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

oh, I can see the complaints here already. can even script them in advance. Would be very much like multi stop whiners.

Great news for the customer, tho who really never wants to go get anything.....


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

Dubba trash


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## MontcoUberDriver (Aug 14, 2018)

Seamus said:


> Plus they can be for awkward items. Besides tampons I've had Condoms and KY "His and Hers" lube. I brought a box of KY "His and Hers" Lube and on the way was imagining upon arrival some hot lady telling me "the his is for you"! What actually happened is some huge Roller Derby Queen opened the door smiled and thanked me. It burned a very disturbing image that I couldn't shake the rest of the night!!!


I once did an order when the only item was plan b. Good tip, easy money!


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MHR said:


> View attachment 608456
> 
> ​During the thick of the pandemic last year, online food delivery company DoorDash expanded its offerings to include convenience store delivery. Now, DoorDash customers in the U.S. and Canada can shop across multiple stores and categories in a single order.
> 
> ...


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

Just another example of a company run by management who has never worked the real job they are expecting people to do, and no clue why it won't work they way they expect.

Lets send orders for $2.

Let's do peoples shopping for free.

Let's take orders from stores that have 30-60 minute wait times every time that people eat.

Let's expect our drivers to lose money while we also, lose money.

They're pretty much all the same.

Amazon is the only smart one. They're subbing out delivery just until they get electric Van's so that they dont have to buy gas.


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## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

Honestly don't see how it can possibly be bad. You have the option to decline it so it goes to someone else. So essentially it's optional, if you want extra bucks on the same way there, it's easy to get.

Good for customers, good for DoorDash as they push sales, extra optional opportunity/work for Dashers. win-win-win.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

Uber's Guber said:


> Customers can now avoid public embarrassment by allowing their dashers to stand in a busy line to purchase that case of Adult Incontinent Diapers.


I do a lot of cvs for dd only if the pay is correct. 
One day a lady laughed at me . She said they have you shopping for things i would be embarrassed .
I get preg tests all the time . female products ****** . enema kits . All that . I am 43 so its perfectly fine .
If i were younger yea it be bad . 
But double take . I can see it now . Go shop at kroger the offer is 2.25 ! but they can tip later in the app.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> UberEATS handles 7-11 well. I just show up at 7-11 and the clerk gives me a bag. Couldn't be easier.


Speak for yourself. I've been kept waiting at 7-11 and I've seen other drivers kept waiting at 7-11 as well.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

MontcoUberDriver said:


> I once did an order when the only item was plan b. Good tip, easy money!


I had to buy a pack of humongous extra large condoms one time.

The girl at the counter looked at my fingers, started laughing, and asked if I was picking up for DD.

Any explanation?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

The race to the bottom continues and DD is trying to speed up the race by creating a new way for drivers to work for free.

Unless I missed something, there was no mention of extra pay for the driver for the extra work, just the "possibility" of a second tip. A Dasher has better odds of buying a winning scratch ticket than getting a second tip. 

I don't work for free.

Why would any driver with even 1/4 of a brain want to do this?

It's truly touching how generous these gig companies are with the drivers' time and money.

Hopefully this will meet the same fate as Lyft's Taco Bell debacle.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> The race to the bottom continues and DD is trying to speed up the race by creating a new way for drivers to work for free.
> 
> Unless I missed something, there was no mention of extra pay for the driver for the extra work, just the "possibility" of a second tip. A Dasher has better odds of buying a winning scratch ticket than getting a second tip.
> 
> ...


Yep.

The decline button is the path to profitability.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> The decline button is the path to profitability.


Sitting around declining large numbers of garbage offers in of itself puts zero dollars into a driver's pockets. There has to be some offers that are at least tolerable, otherwise you're wasting your time. And even tolerable offers are getting harder to find in my market.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Sitting around declining large numbers of garbage offers in of itself puts zero dollars into a driver's pockets. There has to be some offers that are at least tolerable, otherwise you're wasting your time. And even tolerable offers are getting harder to find in my market.


Gotta be patient.

It's not about dollars per hour in a small business.

It's all about minimizing expenses and maximizing gross revenues.

Sitting in a parked car for hours on end is preferable to losing money on bad offers.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> It's not about dollars per hour in a small business.


For me, dollars per hour is exactly what this is about. My goal every shift is to make as much money as possible.

I know some drivers want to believe they're running a business but they're not. It's a job with flexible hours and nothing more.

When another party (Uber,DD,etc) controls so much of this job, I can't honestly say I'm running a business.

Being an entrepreneur is something most people aren't cut out for, and good examples of that are the vast majority of rideshare drivers, most of whom don't understand how they're paid or even what their pay rates are. They're totally dependent on Uber for everything just as if they were W2 employees.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> Sitting in a parked car for hours on end is preferable to losing money on bad offers.


I'll go home rather than do either of those.


Judge and Jury said:


> It's not about dollars per hour in a small business.


Dollars per hour are important. I've worked in pizza shops as well as gas stations, and in both the upper management constantly monitors sales per hour and get displeased if those numbers fall below the targeted amounts.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

I think it largely depends on the significance of delivery income in your budget. The higher the percentage - the more likely one is to take lower offers. Not $3 for 10 miles, of course, but a buck per mile, for example. If delivery plays a significant role, you can’t afford sitting there waiting for a unicorn.

Sure, something went wrong if this is your primary source of income. But that’s besides the point. Things sometimes go wrong.

Plus, everyone has a different vantage point. I used to commute 150 miles roundtrip in rush-hour traffic. I left the house around 5:30 and returned around 8 if I didn’t have to stay late (which was frequent). Then pay for a garage in Midtown Manhattan. Public transportation was not an option (for a number of reasons). Before that - Manhattan rents. Need I say more? Sure, the pay was good and the job prestigious. And yet...

More miles than I do doordashing; more gas; more stress. I’m living the dream now.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> How does DD compare to Instacart?


Never done instacart.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

MHR said:


> View attachment 608456
> 
> ​During the thick of the pandemic last year, online food delivery company DoorDash expanded its offerings to include convenience store delivery. Now, DoorDash customers in the U.S. and Canada can shop across multiple stores and categories in a single order.
> 
> ...


Guessing double dash but single pay?


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## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Guessing double dash but single pay?


The article glossed over the pay rate for these types of deliveries. All it stated was, "Delivery workers, or “Dashers,” will be able to collect tips on both the first restaurant order and the second merchant order, according to the company. Dashers can use DoorDash’s logistics platform to accept both orders at once and deliver them together without deviating from the primary route, thus potentially increasing earnings without going too far out of their way."


TL;DR 
Looks like we have the possibility of earning more via a higher tip. At least that's my takeaway. 🤷‍♀️


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

MHR said:


> The article glossed over the pay rate for these types of deliveries. All it stated was, "Delivery workers, or “Dashers,” will be able to collect tips on both the first restaurant order and the second merchant order, according to the company. Dashers can use DoorDash’s logistics platform to accept both orders at once and deliver them together without deviating from the primary route, thus potentially increasing earnings without going too far out of their way."
> 
> 
> TL;DR
> Looks like we have the possibility of earning more via a higher tip. At least that's my takeaway. 🤷‍♀️


How can the dasher assure that the second dash for the merchant will guarantee a tip to be received?

Tips are never guaranteed.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> I had to buy a pack of humongous extra large condoms one time.
> 
> The girl at the counter looked at my fingers, started laughing, and asked if I was picking up for DD.
> 
> Any explanation?


What was her vaccination status?


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## ANThonyBoreDaneCook (Oct 7, 2019)

Judge and Jury said:


> I had to buy a pack of humongous extra large condoms one time.


Yeah sorry about that. I twisted my ankle and really needed them delivered.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

MHR said:


> "thus _potentially _increasing earnings without going too far out of their way."


🤣 ROLF, yeah, and I can _potentially_ win the lottery. Potentially doesn't work as far as work/earnings go, of course.


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## Driving With A Purpose (Jul 28, 2020)

I’ve only been doing DD about a week, even though I’ve done UE and Amazon for several years.

I did get a single Double Dash. It was for Jack-in-the-Box plus 7-11. Both were delivered to the same apartment. There were absolutely no issues with waits at either location. The two pickups were about a mile apart.

Total pay was $11 for 6.5 miles. It included TWO TIPS. Easy peazy. I’d do it again in a heartbeat.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> For me, dollars per hour is exactly what this is about. My goal every shift is to make as much money as possible.
> 
> I know some drivers want to believe they're running a business but they're not. It's a job with flexible hours and nothing more.
> 
> ...


I've owned small businesses, real estate and managed huge warehousing, shipping and receiving operations.

I manage my delivery business the same as my previous endeavors.

Minimizing expenses is key, especially when gross receipts might be getting hammered.

Dollars per hour is meaningless if you are losing money.

By the way, the decline button is what separates employees from contractors.

Personally, I am grateful for the swarms of ants.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> I'll go home rather than do either of those.
> 
> Dollars per hour are important. I've worked in pizza shops as well as gas stations, and in both the upper management constantly monitors sales per hour and get displeased if those numbers fall below the targeted amounts.


Yep.

They don't want expenses to outpace gross receipts.

Closing down between one pm and five o'clock due to low sales is not really an option for pizza shops or gas stations.

Contracting is different.


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## Uberyouber (Jan 16, 2017)

MHR said:


> View attachment 608456
> 
> ​During the thick of the pandemic last year, online food delivery company DoorDash expanded its offerings to include convenience store delivery. Now, DoorDash customers in the U.S. and Canada can shop across multiple stores and categories in a single order.
> 
> ...


I don't see it working... After I spent $32 on $16 worth of food at a local restaurant. Yes I tip good...the Doordash app said I had 5 minutes to order something from a 7-Eleven. I was not interested... I think drivers are figure out it's too time-consuming...


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> I think it largely depends on the significance of delivery income in your budget. The higher the percentage - the more likely one is to take lower offers. Not $3 for 10 miles, of course, but a buck per mile, for example. If delivery plays a significant role, you can’t afford sitting there waiting for a unicorn.
> 
> Sure, something went wrong if this is your primary source of income. But that’s besides the point. Things sometimes go wrong.
> 
> ...


Nope.

Losing money is worse than not making money.

Agreed. A dream job.

Now, I only have to report to my wife.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Uberyouber said:


> I don't see it working... After I spent $32 on $16 worth of food at a local restaurant. Yes I tip good...the Doordash app said I had 5 minutes to order something from a 7-Eleven. I was not interested... I think drivers are figure out it's too time-consuming...


In my experience, two pickups to the same residence may be profitable.

Usually, for some unknown reason, there are tips on both orders.

Just gotta monitor the dollars per mile to determine if the offer is profitable.

Further, if leave at door, you gotta photo and text customer separately for each delivery. A minor nuisance.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

MHR said:


> View attachment 608456
> 
> ​During the thick of the pandemic last year, online food delivery company DoorDash expanded its offerings to include convenience store delivery. Now, DoorDash customers in the U.S. and Canada can shop across multiple stores and categories in a single order.
> 
> ...





MHR said:


> View attachment 608456
> 
> ​During the thick of the pandemic last year, online food delivery company DoorDash expanded its offerings to include convenience store delivery. Now, DoorDash customers in the U.S. and Canada can shop across multiple stores and categories in a single order.
> 
> ...





MHR said:


> View attachment 608456
> 
> ​During the thick of the pandemic last year, online food delivery company DoorDash expanded its offerings to include convenience store delivery. Now, DoorDash customers in the U.S. and Canada can shop across multiple stores and categories in a single order.
> 
> ...


Been a feature in my region for a while.

In my experience, there have always been tips on both pickups.

However, you gotta monitor the dollars per mile.

There may have been instances of no-tip behavior on offers I declined.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> I manage my delivery business the same as my previous endeavors.


I assume when you say "delivery business" you're talking about these "gig" jobs.

If that's the case, it means you didn't set the terms, conditions, rules, and prices of your goods or services, another party did.

It also means you were required to make your business decisions blindly, without pertinent facts.

It also means you were 100% dependent on another party to provide you with customers

It also means you couldn't build up a customer base nor promote/market your business.

It also means you weren't even allowed to know who you customers were.

I can't imagine what kind of business you ran.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> They don't want expenses to outpace gross receipts.


That's a given, but the focus of those phone calls, emails, etc. was SALES, SALES, SALES, and they checked them HOURLY, and if the hourly targets weren't met, they weren't pleased.

They also heavily pushed the concept of UPSELL, UPSELL, UPSELL.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> Contracting is different.


"Contracting" as it's usually practiced in this country is much closer to employment than it is to entrepreneurship.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> "Contracting" as it's usually practiced in this country is much closer to employment than it is to entrepreneurship.


Seems recent work on my principal residence for plumbing, roofing and HVAC required extensive negotiations.

My wife is a killer negotiator.

The contractors were free to negotiate and accept or decline the offers proffered.

Seems you are limiting the entirety of contracting into a gig app pigeonhole.

In the gig app economy, the decline button is the difference between employment and independent status.

The decline button is the key to profitability.

Use it to your advantage.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> Dollars per hour is meaningless if you are losing money.


Rest assured I'm not losing money. I'd quit immediately if I was anywhere within smelling distance of losing money.

Last summer I was easily grossing $25-$35 per hour and even higher without much effort thanks to the very generous tips of several customers. Pay rates were also at least $2 higher per order. Now I have to work much harder just to gross $17- $20 per hour and some nights I don't even gross $17. I'm good at this but I have to work harder and harder thanks to the terrible pay rates and the very poor quality of the vast majority of offers. 

I can't imagine how someone without my ability could possibly gross much more than minimum wage. I'm sure the turnover rate is more than 100% at this point.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> Seems recent work on my principal residence for plumbing, roofing and HVAC required extensive negotiations.
> 
> My wife is a killer negotiator.
> 
> ...


Your attempt to compare gig workers with true entrepreneurs such as the ones you listed doesn't work.

I'm sure you're well aware that gig companies don't negotiate or haggle with their lowly drivers. Every single thing is "our way or the highway", period. Your wife's excellent haggling skills would be wasted with these companies.

Many car dealerships and other businesses also allow haggling, but many don't, including many contractors.

And unlike gig workers, the occupations above ultimately sets the terms and prices. When all is said and done, your wife signs THEIR contract, which is 180 degrees opposite of gig workers who are required to sign the gig companies' contracts, just like employees do.

Remember that in many cases, haggling is built into the initial price. Furniture and mattress stores are a good example of that.

Unlike gig workers who have to blindly accept work offers with pertinent info hidden from them, NOTHING is hidden from the ICs you listed. If there's any hiding taking place it's the ICs doing the hiding.


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## smithers54 (Jan 7, 2019)

So 2x the time or more for more than likely the same pay


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> Nope.
> 
> Losing money is worse than not making money.


Very hard to lose money when dashing in a properly maintained old Prius. One would have to accept really REALLY stinky offers (I’m inexperienced, but not stupid).

Arguably the only way to lose money in a Prius is to sit there - the battery charges when you hit the breaks - running the AC.

A mile costs me about $0.08 at current prices. I can do $1/mile.


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## Mad_Jack_Flint (Nov 19, 2020)

I took a few Walgreens orders for Uber because the pay was in my range and when I got there half the items were not available, so I canceled the orders and stopped doing Walgreens for Uber…


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Very hard to lose money when dashing in a properly maintained old Prius. One would have to accept really REALLY stinky offers (I’m inexperienced, but not stupid).
> 
> Arguably the only way to lose money in a Prius is to sit there - the battery charges when you hit the breaks - running the AC.
> 
> A mile costs me about $0.08 at current prices. I can do $1/mile.


I used to think the same thing, I had 6 priuses.

Sooner or later they all have the same problems. The electric brake booster is $2000. Another $1000 when the screens go out, and both of them will, just not at the same time. Oh, and the batteries. 

There's about 5k in common electrical repairs you can expect to do on a Prius, and that's not even including anything mechanical.

If you can find a cheap electric with over 100 miles range that might be ok just for local use, but then you need a 2nd car to go out of town.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

jaxbeachrides said:


> I used to think the same thing, I had 6 priuses.
> 
> Sooner or later they all have the same problems. The electric brake booster is $2000. Another $1000 when the screens go out, and both of them will, just not at the same time. Oh, and the batteries.
> 
> ...


I don’t plan on keeping him after 150K. Then start new. I’m at 120K. No issues. _kow_


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> I don’t plan on keeping him after 150K. Then start new. I’m at 120K. No issues. _kow_


Doing this kind of work is 30k+ miles a year.... that's alot of buying and selling cars to get them low mileage, and sell with low mileage (under 200k on a toyota or honda is "low mileage")


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> I assume when you say "delivery business" you're talking about these "gig" jobs.
> 
> If that's the case, it means you didn't set the terms, conditions, rules, and prices of your goods or services, another party did.
> 
> ...


The gig apps are efficient lead generators.

I don't gotta advertise at all.

They send me thousands of leads per week.

Then, I accept, decline or unassign, according to my whims.

By the way, I could offer my delivery services to restaurants and other businesses if I chose to do so. Just seems so inefficient.

Finally, how many terms and conditions were you able to negotiate on a real estate mortgage contract with a bank or other lender?


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Rest assured I'm not losing money. I'd quit immediately if I was anywhere within smelling distance of losing money.
> 
> Last summer I was easily grossing $25-$35 per hour and even higher without much effort thanks to the very generous tips of several customers. Pay rates were also at least $2 higher per order. Now I have to work much harder just to gross $17- $20 per hour and some nights I don't even gross $17. I'm good at this but I have to work harder and harder thanks to the terrible pay rates and the very poor quality of the vast majority of offers.
> 
> I can't imagine how someone without my ability could possibly gross much more than minimum wage. I'm sure the turnover rate is more than 100% at this point.


Every business has its ups and downs.

Experiment, learn and adapt.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Your attempt to compare gig workers with true entrepreneurs such as the ones you listed doesn't work.
> 
> I'm sure you're well aware that gig companies don't negotiate or haggle with their lowly drivers. Every single thing is "our way or the highway", period. Your wife's excellent haggling skills would be wasted with these companies.
> 
> ...


Yep.

My wife might be signing their contract, but it is full of strike outs and additions, all initialed and dated.

Do you realize you can negotiate with Wal-Mart and Home Depot. Happens on a daily basis.

Just because the other party does not accept your position does not mean that a negotiation did not take place.

I could send letters to the gig app companies to negotiate a change in the the TOS agreement, but that would be futile. Sorta like trying to modify the insurance requirements on a real estate mortgage.

Finally, gig app contractors do not have to blindly accept offers. The decision to accept or decline is theirs.

Seems you have decided to use apps that don't provide enough information to make profitable decisions. That is on you.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> My wife might be signing their contract, but it is full of strike outs and additions, all initialed and dated.


Those "strike outs" and "additions" were decided by the contractors, not your wife.



Judge and Jury said:


> Do you realize you can negotiate with Wal-Mart and Home Depot. Happens on a daily basis.


It takes two or more parties engaging in discussion for a negotiation to take place. Offering a Walmart clerk or manager less than the posted price is not a negotiation.



Judge and Jury said:


> Just because the other party does not accept your position does not mean that a negotiation did not take place.


That's correct, but again, the act of making an offer to another person does not constitute a negotiation.



Judge and Jury said:


> I could send letters to the gig app companies to negotiate a change in the the TOS agreement, but that would be futile. Sorta like trying to modify the insurance requirements on a real estate mortgage.


You're making my point that I made in a previous post when I said you cannot negotiate with these gig companies. The inability of the drivers to negotiate the terms and prices of their work gives lie to all the claims these companies make in their driver recruitment ads and materials that the drivers are "their own boss", "you're the boss", "you're in charge", etc.



Judge and Jury said:


> Finally, gig app contractors do not have to blindly accept offers.
> 
> As I stated before, when working for these gig companies, everything is "our way or the highway", and a major part of "our way" is providing drivers little in the way of transparency. Without transparency, any offer you accept is being accepted blindly. The only way out of blindly accepting offers is to not accept offers at all, which means you earn zero dollars.
> 
> ...


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> The gig apps are efficient lead generators.


"Leads" are POTENTIAL customers or clients that a business hopes will turn into actual customers. Sales reps are often times provided LEADS by their employers with the hope of turning those leads into actual CUSTOMERS. Pax are NOT potential customers, they are signed and sealed customers waiting to be "delivered" in the same way airline pax and bus pax are signed and sealed and waiting to be delivered. The use of the term "lead generator" to describe pax is pure BS.

Just like bus drivers and airline pilots, the job of rideshare drivers is to provide the service that the customers have already paid for.

It's equally false to claim a food delivery customer is a lead. Just like pax, they've already purchased their food and paid for the delivery service and are now waiting for the driver to deliver the food that they've already paid for.



Judge and Jury said:


> They send me thousands of leads per week.


BS.



Judge and Jury said:


> Then, I accept, decline or unassign, according to my whims.


Not with Doordash. If you un-assign more than 20% of your deliveries they'll fire you. Declining "too many" offers subjects drivers to various punishments depending on the market where you work.



Judge and Jury said:


> By the way, I could offer my delivery services to restaurants and other businesses if I chose to do so. Just seems so inefficient.


So can everyone else. Any business you operate outside of gig work has no bearing whatsoever on your relationship with gig companies. It doesn't matter if you own a fleet of 100 livery vehicles, when you go online with Uber you're just another driver subject to all of Uber's rules and rates.



Judge and Jury said:


> Finally, how many terms and conditions were you able to negotiate on a real estate mortgage contract with a bank or other lender?


I'm not providing labor for either of those entities, I'm a customer of theirs. Thus my relationship with them is completely different than my relationship with gig companies for whom I'm providing labor.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> "Leads" are POTENTIAL customers or clients that a business hopes will turn into actual customers. Sales reps are often times provided LEADS by their employers with the hope of turning those leads into actual CUSTOMERS. Pax are NOT potential customers, they are signed and sealed customers waiting to be "delivered" in the same way airline pax and bus pax are signed and sealed and waiting to be delivered. The use of the term "lead generator" to describe pax is pure BS.
> 
> Just like bus drivers and airline pilots, the job of rideshare drivers is to provide the service that the customers have already paid for.
> 
> ...


Paragraph 1;
Semantics. Definitions change over time.

Gig apps send me offers, (leads,) and I accept or decline.

"Pax" are, indeed, potential "customers" for me, until such time that I determine if the offer is profitable and hit the accept button. Then they become my "customer."

Your analogy regarding W2 drivers and pilots is off point. They are driving or flying regardless. I am a contractor, I decide when and where.

P. 2:
Sure, they paid someone in advance, but not me. The entity they paid is responsible for providing a ride. I am under no obligation to the pax unless I accept an offer from a gig app company.

P. 3:
Same response as to paragraph 2.

P. 4.
Ok, an exaggeration. A hundred or two hundred offers a day is not unusual. My current AR is seven percent.

P. 5
Actually, my whims take into account stated and unstated cancellation rates that could lead to deactivation. My cancellation rate on DD hovers between 96 and 99 percent, though, as of today, it is at 100 percent. Better to decline offers than to unassign them. Guessing bus drivers and airline pilots wish they had access to an unassign button. Oh, the joys of contractor status.


P. 6:
Agreed. Never said differently. Was just a rebuttal to one of your previous posts.

P7;
All relationships are negotiable. Just because one party declines all modifications to a contract, does not mean that negotiations did not occur.

I am profitable using gig apps. Seems the gig app companies are unprofitable. By stretching your analogy, they could be considered as my customer.

They send me offers, and, if I accept, they pay me money.

Finally, seems you are stuck in a should be, or used to be, mindset.

Experiment, learn and adapt.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> Paragraph 1;
> Semantics. Definitions change over time.


Semantics is subtle differences. To claim that dispatching rides is lead generation is flatout false.



Judge and Jury said:


> Gig apps send me offers, (leads,) and I accept or decline.


Offers of work are not leads, no matter how many times you try to spin that they are.



Judge and Jury said:


> "Pax" are, indeed, potential "customers" for me


People who order pizza delivery from W2 drivers are also "potential" customers.

It's funny that you'd say that, considering you're one of those apologists who likes to tell pissed off drivers that what the pax (customers) pay has NOTHING to do with you and that it's "none of your business". Now according to you, those very same pax whose payments and even their full names are "none of my business" are my "customers". You can't have it both ways buddy.



Judge and Jury said:


> Sure, they paid someone in advance, but not me.


They paid someone else in advance, but not you. That "someone else" was Uber. They're Uber's customer and you're the laborer Uber's fetches to perform the labor that Uber was paid for just like a Greyhound bus driver.



Judge and Jury said:


> Your analogy regarding W2 drivers and pilots is off point. They are driving or flying regardless. I am a contractor, I decide when and where.


It's on point for the reasons I've already given. Your decision-making is limited to accepting or declining what the company decides to offer you or whether they decide to offer you anything at all. You may want to go to the airport, but you'll only be offered an airport trip if Uber decides to give you one. If Uber decides to pass you over and give it to someone else, there's nothing you can do about it.



Judge and Jury said:


> Guessing bus drivers and airline pilots wish they had access to an unassign button.


Maybe, but they're getting lots of benefits in exchange for not being able to unassign pax.



Judge and Jury said:


> All relationships are negotiable. Just because one party declines all modifications to a contract, does not mean that negotiations did not occur.


Going over the same ground. Negotiation requires two or more parties who are committed to the discussion. These gig companies have never displayed any willingness whatsoever, thus no negotiation has ever taken place.

Meanwhile, zillions of W2 workers including myself have negotiated raises and other improvements with our employers, something that "be your own boss" gig workers have never been able to do.


Judge and Jury said:


> Experiment, learn and adapt.


Cheap, tired cliches. There's nothing you can tell me about how to do my job that I don't already know.

Veteran drivers are fed up with having to "adapt" to perpetual pay cuts, especially during a pandemic, and they're quitting. These gig companies are betting heavily that once the UI money stops, the Third World immigrants will return en masse. If they don't, these gig companies will be in serious trouble.



Judge and Jury said:


> Seems the gig app companies are unprofitable.


As you're probably aware, I've never bought into that claim, especially now with the massive cuts Uber and Lyft are grabbing from the rides.


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## The Jax (Apr 17, 2018)

Uber's Guber said:


> Customers can now avoid public embarrassment by allowing their dashers to stand in a busy line to purchase that case of Adult Incontinent Diapers.


How is that any different from a McDonalds order at 11:30pm when drive thru is only open and wrapped around? I remember back in the day, I would do maybe one or two of these orders. I would always contact the customer and tell them drive thru is wrapped around and there will be a long delay and that I hope it is ok. Of course, they always say it is fine. Of course it is fine. They are sitting home and not waiting in line. After about a month of noticing customers are purposely placing orders at this time instead of going to avoid the long drive thru wait time and NOT tipping the drivers for the wait time after expressing the long wait time, I refused to do any more of them.

My point is, the expectation, if any, that a customer is going to tip you more because you used your time, gas, and car to pick up their chipotle order AND stop at the store to "pick up a few things" is absolute bananas! A customer with any decency would never place an order like that because honestly it is rude and demeaning. So the only customer placing this type of order is someone who couldn't care less and will barely tip, if at all. So.......... a dasher's reason to do any of these orders is what? Only idiot dashers who do not know any better will do them until they also learn. Bet the pay outs are $4.00 or less for both too. No thanks.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> especially now with the massive cuts Uber and Lyft are grabbing from the rides.


do we even understand why that his happening? And that is besides the fact drivers are getting paid exactly as they agreed to. This is more about needing to increase gross margins to 'correct' a certain cash burn problem that at least U/L both have.

I mean, sheesh. due diligence would be cut expenses and raise revenues. Right? R I G H T ?

Drivers, at best, are accounts payable; first place beyond payroll one looks to cut costs. <sigh> and the paying customer is first place to look to increase revenues. <dbl sigh>

yes, yes, years ago drivers got paid more. Yeah, yeah accept or move on, right?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> do we even understand why that his happening? And that is besides the fact drivers are getting paid exactly as they agreed to. This is more about needing to increase gross margins to 'correct' a certain cash burn problem that at least U/L both have.


Gimme a effing break with your propaganda bullshit.

That's right, "poor Uber" is broke and has no other choice but to keep taking more and more money out of the pockets of it's overwhelmingly low-income and Third World immigrant driver workforce.



SHalester said:


> Drivers, at best, are accounts payable


If that's true, Dara and his fellow Uber execs should be hauled off to prison for fraud and perjury, because in their SEC docs they state that drivers are accounts receivable (their "customers").

It's not surprising that Uber and the other gig companies get away with these crimes because the govt has chosen to look the other way at all of Uber's lies as well as the entire IC scam thanks to political ideology and massive special interest lobbying (bribery).



SHalester said:


> paying customer


Up until less than a year ago, the ONLY "paying customers" were the DRIVERS according to Uber SEC docs. Even the "booking fee" was an accounts receivable "collected" from the drivers. 

Last year, Uber changed it to a accounts receivable from the PAX. 



SHalester said:


> Yeah, yeah accept or move on, right?


You and the other diehards who always tell people to "move on" are the ones who refuse to move-on. You're constantly on edge worried that if myself and other "disgruntled" drivers make enough noise about demanding change, the govt will crack down on the corrupt status-quo and your "positive cashflow" (which you've shown on multiple occasions that you don't what you're talking about) as well as "tax write-off" will go up in smoke.

It's funny how all these "geniuses" who brag how business-savvy they are, how resourceful they are, and how adaptable they are cling so tenaciously to this "little side hustle". So tenaciously that they feel a compulsion to rush on here and other websites to attack "complainers" such as myself.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Gimme a effing break with your propaganda bullshit.


what exact part is propaganda? Both Uber and Lyft have a serious cash burn problem. Both are running out their cash and cash equivalents quarter to quarter. 

Both need to increase gross margins and decrease expenses.

Drivers get paid exactly what they last agreed to.

All facts.

Do tell what is cow waste. Please. 

Ax meet grind. <sigh>


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Seamus said:


> They meant to say "That's double the trash"


I bet they don't call you dashing super star!!!


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Rickos69 said:


> I bet they don't call you dashing super star!!!
> 
> View attachment 609518


They probably call me a lot of things, superstar isn't one of them!  You are "on their radar screen" so they are probably grooming you to be a "Top Dasher". Do not let Tony down! Pretty soon I'm expecting to get a Dasher Digest with this on the front page:


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Seamus said:


> They probably call me a lot of things, superstar isn't one of them!  You are "on their radar screen" so they are probably grooming you to be a "Top Dasher". Do not let Tony down! Pretty soon I'm expecting to get a Dasher Digest with this on the front page:
> 
> 
> View attachment 609522


I think I look pretty good, don't you?
Yup! With 1%.


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