# Uber's long term business model...is to add MANYmore drivers...until



## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

It occurs to me that the individual administrative costs to UBER of on-boarding a driver is minimal. It is basically done exclusively via email. Sure, you have some administrative staff, office rental & related expenses, lawyers, IT geeks and marketing types. However, the more drivers that are "on-boarded", the cheaper the cost to UBER on an incremental per driver basis.  *Therefore, the more drivers that are on-boarded...the cheaper the associated costs are for UBER per driver.* Even the background checks are bulk-rate contracts. As far as "HARD" costs per driver goes, there is only the cost of the phone, which is passed on to the driver (I will bet that Uber is actually making money on the phone as well, on a per unit bulk cost basis). Insurance is no longer a serious cost factor because of the $1 "safe rider" fee, which is a pass-through revenue source (per ride) to UBER.

*All that said, it is in UBER's interest to hire as many drivers as possible*....1 on every street corner, if possible. THINK ABOUT IT.....driver over-saturation BENEFITS UBER's top-line revenue growth (without adding any significant associate -per driver- expense). Driver over-saturation ALSO BENEFITS the RIDER for obvious reasons. Driver income plays NO PART in this equation and is IN FACT, the expendable component in UBER's "end game".

Soon, there will come a point where so many individuals will have either an UBER phone or a driver app installed on their own phone, that the UBER concept really WILL be a ride share. Anyone headed to the local mall to go shopping will simply turn on their app to see if they can "get a ping" to "share the gas cost.

The days are fast approaching where UBER will no longer be marketed as a full-time/part-time way to make "$40hr or $1500wk"....but as a convenient method to defray travel expenses.

So....go ahead....by a car for your full-time $70,000 a year UBER driver gig. Better yet.....lease one through UBER's accomplice (sorry) "partner" Santander.

It does not take an MBA to see that more drivers ='s more net profit for Uber. As a matter of fact, Uber OWES IT to their future shareholders to aggressively push hard to increase the driver pool in ALL markets.


----------



## EricUberTampa (Sep 2, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> It occurs to me that the individual administrative costs to UBER of on-boarding a driver is minimal. It is basically done exclusively via email. Sure, you have some administrative staff, office rental & related expenses, lawyers, IT geeks and marketing types. However, the more drivers that are "on-boarded", the cheaper the cost to UBER on an incremental per driver basis.  *Therefore, the more drivers that are on-boarded...the cheaper the associated costs are for UBER per driver.* Even the background checks are bulk-rate contracts. As far as "HARD" costs per driver goes, there is only the cost of the phone, which is passed on to the driver (I will bet that Uber is actually making money on the phone as well, on a per unit bulk cost basis). Insurance is no longer a serious cost factor because of the $1 "safe rider" fee, which is a pass-through revenue source (per ride) to UBER.
> 
> *All that said, it is in UBER's interest to hire as many drivers as possible*....1 on every street corner, if possible. THINK ABOUT IT.....driver over-saturation BENEFITS UBER's top-line revenue growth (without adding any significant associate -per driver- expense). Driver over-saturation ALSO BENEFITS the RIDER for obvious reasons. Driver income plays NO PART in this equation and is IN FACT, the expendable component in UBER's "end game".
> 
> ...


----------



## EricUberTampa (Sep 2, 2014)

Your analysis is spot on. What everyone needs to realize this model is designed as a "ride share" and not a chauffer or even taxi service. Like you said their goal is to have as many "on-line" vehicles on the road to keep the system moving.


----------



## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

EricUberTampa said:


> Your analysis is spot on. What everyone needs to realize this model is designed as a "ride share" and not a chauffer or even taxi service. Like you said their goal is to have as many "on-line" vehicles on the road to keep the system moving.


Thanks. My analysis is a bit "inside baseball", but there are a lot of folks that are expecting to make a full time living (indefinitely) off this gig. Some of them are going into debt by buying/leasing new cars specifically for UBERing. I hope that they will adjust their expectations in order to fit the reality of the situation.


----------



## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> It occurs to me that the individual administrative costs to UBER of on-boarding a driver is minimal. It is basically done exclusively via email. Sure, you have some administrative staff, office rental & related expenses, lawyers, IT geeks and marketing types. However, the more drivers that are "on-boarded", the cheaper the cost to UBER on an incremental per driver basis.  *Therefore, the more drivers that are on-boarded...the cheaper the associated costs are for UBER per driver.* Even the background checks are bulk-rate contracts. As far as "HARD" costs per driver goes, there is only the cost of the phone, which is passed on to the driver (I will bet that Uber is actually making money on the phone as well, on a per unit bulk cost basis). Insurance is no longer a serious cost factor because of the $1 "safe rider" fee, which is a pass-through revenue source (per ride) to UBER.
> 
> *All that said, it is in UBER's interest to hire as many drivers as possible*....1 on every street corner, if possible. THINK ABOUT IT.....driver over-saturation BENEFITS UBER's top-line revenue growth (without adding any significant associate -per driver- expense). Driver over-saturation ALSO BENEFITS the RIDER for obvious reasons. Driver income plays NO PART in this equation and is IN FACT, the expendable component in UBER's "end game".
> 
> ...


Sorry.

But you only have yourself to blame if you thought $70k a year driving for a rideshare was going to be sustainable long term.


----------



## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Sorry.
> 
> But you only have yourself to blame if you thought $70k a year driving for a rideshare was going to be sustainable long term.


----------



## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Sorry.
> 
> But you only have yourself to blame if you thought $70k a year driving for a rideshare was going to be sustainable long term.


Not true. Uber has been saturating most markets with advertised claims of grossly inflated earnings to unsuspecting, potential drivers. They do this without any type of credible full-disclosure or accurate substantiation of their claims. For my part, I had the benefit of this forum to educate me. Consequently, I knew what to expect before I got behind the wheel. Others have not been so fortunate. While I have to somewhat admire UBER's cutthroat business model. I do think that they should be taken to task for their grossly inflated earnings claims and reprehensible internal driver interaction policies (ie. flawed rating system, arbitrary deactivation, shielded driver communication etc, etc).


----------



## vtexposfan (May 27, 2014)

Who makes 70K anymore? Either you make 5 million or you make 30K.


----------



## Yuri Lygotme (Jul 27, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> Uber has been saturating most markets with advertised claims of grossly inflated earnings to unsuspecting, potential drivers. They do this without any type of credible full-disclosure or accurate substantiation of their claims.


Allow me to illustrate :


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Sorry.
> 
> But you only have yourself to blame if you thought $70k a year driving for a rideshare was going to be sustainable long term.


Uber Lux Bod,

You must be one of the few people to have missed UBER's grand income promises to X drivers.

Perhaps I missed the small print somewhere, and Uber DID warn X drivers that the promised amounts were temporary and simply not sustainable as they continued to double fleet sizes without requisite market growth.

Could you please show me these Uber caveats?


----------



## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

EricUberTampa said:


> Your analysis is spot on. What everyone needs to realize this model is designed as a "ride share" and not a chauffer or even taxi service. Like you said their goal is to have as many "on-line" vehicles on the road to keep the system moving.


LOL ... I can see it now.

I step out of my front door and have to push through 3 or 4 uber drivers, each trying to be the one standing closest to me, just in case I order an uber.

All this just in an attempt to walk to my own car and work.

I think this is the point at which Uber will be happy!


----------



## whoisjohngalt (Sep 4, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> Uber Lux Bod,
> 
> You must be one of the few people to have missed UBER's grand income promises to X drivers.
> 
> ...


Caveat Subscriptor (let the signer beware). You knew coming in you were an independent contractor. Were any of those things guaranteed to you in contract?

Yeah, I didn't think so. You are free to leave at any time.

And I'm not saying they aren't treating us like crap, they most definitely are, but that is how employment works. Stop working for them, that's the only way to have any effect.


----------



## Farlance (Jul 29, 2014)

You may think that, but we're actually pausing cities that are too saturated. San Diego is completely paused; No new BLACK or X drivers at all. LA and SF are paused for UberBLACK. So is Phoenix.


----------



## Farlance (Jul 29, 2014)

Oh, and the claims for how much you can make aren't inflated, actually; It's all based on how much you work.

I just answered a ticket from a driver who was pulling in $2.5k+/week doing UberX. I was floored. My jaw literally dropped.


----------



## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Farlance said:


> You may think that, but we're actually pausing cities that are too saturated. San Diego is completely paused; No new BLACK or X drivers at all. LA and SF are paused for UberBLACK. So is Phoenix.


This is good to hear. It is an indication that our Uber parent is capable of being responsive. Much more of this type of positive positioning and I might have to start to "back-pedal" some of my more strident rhetoric.


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Farlance said:


> Oh, and the claims for how much you can make aren't inflated, actually; It's all based on how much you work.
> 
> I just answered a ticket from a driver who was pulling in $2.5k+/week doing UberX. I was floored. My jaw literally dropped.


hi Farlance

Thanks for your input. I stopped sending in Reports to my local office where I witnessed drivers with Uber Black phones driving unlicensed vehicles. I've been right beside questionable drivers holding a Uber iPhone (no tie, no Chauffeur's uniform) a disgrace to the industry and pinged them as a rider. And guess what? The little picture wasn't him, and license plate didn't correlate.

Do you really think ALL drivers accepting jobs off the UBER phones are the same person as was onboarded? That would explain some "jaw-dropping" weekly returns. 2 or 3 individuals sharing one UBER account wouldn't be difficult. Does UBER track safe working hours? (Easy way to deduce super human driving hours) 
No - because 
a.) THEY DONT CARE 
b.) LEARNING THE TRUTH AND IMPOSING RULES WOULD HURT THEIR BOTTOM LINE

How can UBER take any moral high ground when imposing rules?

Because UBER'S business model is predicated on breaking existing legislated laws, this gives the green light to anyone who has no real stake in the industry


----------



## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

Farlance said:


> Oh, and the claims for how much you can make aren't inflated, actually; It's all based on how much you work.
> 
> I just answered a ticket from a driver who was pulling in $2.5k+/week doing UberX. I was floored. My jaw literally dropped.


Can you tell the boss we want our rates increased?

Seriously, if it's better service than a cab there is no reason for it to be SOOOOOOO much cheaper.

I'd like to upgrade my ride and provide even better service, but can't if each ride barely breaks even.

Right now I make almost no profit per ride and uber is only useful to me as a way to promote my personal business.

$2500 guy have to have something special going for him and I bet he's not in a $1 /mile market.


----------



## Pacdog (Sep 1, 2014)

Farlance said:


> Oh, and the claims for how much you can make aren't inflated, actually; It's all based on how much you work.
> 
> I just answered a ticket from a driver who was pulling in $2.5k+/week doing UberX. I was floored. My jaw literally dropped.


Can We ask what the average weekly income (before your take) is for all uberX drivers? While asking can you break down that number by location? I know you have the data, but I'm sure your not allowed to post it.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> Sorry.
> 
> But you only have yourself to blame if you thought $70k a year driving for a rideshare was going to be sustainable long term.


So you mean to say that Uber has no blame in this, while it was and still putting ads with $1200/wk even in marginal markets, statements like "fully utilised UberX car books $100000/yr", " SF UberX drivers make $74000/yr" and on and on


----------



## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> hi Farlance
> 
> Thanks for your input. I stopped sending in Reports to my local office where I witnessed drivers with Uber Black phones driving unlicensed vehicles. I've been right beside questionable drivers holding a Uber iPhone (no tie, no Chauffeur's uniform) a disgrace to the industry and pinged them as a rider. And guess what? The little picture wasn't him, and license plate didn't correlate.
> 
> ...


Easy there buddy. People who own their own rides are under no obligation to dress up. They are driving long hours and want to be comfortable.

Now, if you are driving someone else's ride I can see them telling you what's what. When I own my own SUV/car service, of course the fools that drive my rides will have to wear shirts and ties, but if I drive it's shorts and a polo. Why? Because I'm the boss. That's why.

If he owns his own sweet ride, no one is telling the driver how to brand himself. As long as he is clean, smells good, and doesn't look like a scumbag, that should be enough. Some customers want the nice ride and a cool driver and he doesn't need to be all stuffy in a shirt and tie. Just my 2c. Tie doesn't make the man :0)


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> hi Farlance
> 
> Thanks for your input. I stopped sending in Reports to my local office where I witnessed drivers with Uber Black phones driving unlicensed vehicles. I've been right beside questionable drivers holding a Uber iPhone (no tie, no Chauffeur's uniform) a disgrace to the industry and pinged them as a rider. And guess what? The little picture wasn't him, and license plate didn't correlate.
> 
> ...


Many tweets to Uber_CHI about the same thing! Picture on the App wasn't the same guy or even car that picked em up! Wrong car, wrong license plate, wrong guy!


----------



## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Many tweets to Uber_CHI about the same thing! Picture on the App wasn't the same guy or even car that picked em up! Wrong car, wrong license plate, wrong guy!


Some customers are hawks for this stuff. I had a female rider who immediately noticed my license plate was different. I had just got a new one and told her that and she was fine, but I was surprised how on top of it she was! Luckily I looked the same as my pic that day, freshly shaved with the same exact sunglasses


----------



## Pacdog (Sep 1, 2014)

Uber Black is different then UberX. Being a newbie can sombody explain the difference? I can only assume Black means you have a Limo and not a regular car and I can see why if a rider asks for a Black they expect much higher service. Makes sense. One thing I do see is the website does not explain how Uber actually works for the different classes. That again might be my ignorance.


----------



## whoisjohngalt (Sep 4, 2014)

Farlance said:


> Oh, and the claims for how much you can make aren't inflated, actually; It's all based on how much you work.
> 
> I just answered a ticket from a driver who was pulling in $2.5k+/week doing UberX. I was floored. My jaw literally dropped.


This is what's known in logic as anecdotal fallacy. We don't care about your mystery man pulling in 2.5k+ a week. We care about how much a driver makes on average PER HOUR and what the median is. We care about the difference in what WE were making before the cuts and what we are making now.

Do you think I'm too stupid to do math and that, if Uber tells me it's so, I will believe them? Numbers don't lie.


----------



## Pacdog (Sep 1, 2014)

Go to the website. They have one sentence replies to what is the difference to the different classes. Common Uber! You can do better.


----------



## UberPup (Aug 16, 2014)

Farlance said:


> You may think that, but we're actually pausing cities that are too saturated. San Diego is completely paused; No new BLACK or X drivers at all. LA and SF are paused for UberBLACK. So is Phoenix.


That's good to know. Thank you for the input. Here in Santa Monica, I have seen a surge in the X-cars since I started about 4 weeks ago. You always get a cluster of dumb ****s by the pier. I wont tell you where I go to get my rides, but I will say, it always seems like there are 8 cars that hover the pier and the shudders and case del mar hotel. Sorry, but that's too many cars for that area, especially at 8:00 am on a weekday.

And they don't move, they sit there and wait for a ping. Good for me, bad for them. You guys can sit there all day, especially since tourist season is pretty much over. Enjoy your 8 hour 2 figure day.


----------



## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Farlance said:


> Oh, and the claims for how much you can make aren't inflated, actually; It's all based on how much you work.
> 
> I just answered a ticket from a driver who was pulling in $2.5k+/week doing UberX. I was floored. My jaw literally dropped.


I believe you. However, I am speculating that such an example is far from typical, and not at all representative of anything close to average. Matter of fact, I would think earnings like that in only one week should be flagged as "something-ain't-right-here" and looked into (ie multiple drivers? rest/safety concerns? etc). With only 168 hours in a week......minus, say 6 hours for sleep and human hygiene per day......minus, say 2 hours per day to eat, fuel and allow for bodily functions.....that should raise some concerns, especially with lower rates. For one, I wonder how this person could maintain an acceptable rating. The guy must be a super-man, or super-drugged or a super-zombie behind the wheel. Jezzz, I know how I feel after 10 hours of just sitting waiting for a ping...tired from just trying to maintain mental acuity. Kinda like a fireman waiting to hear the bell go off and slide down the pole and run to the truck. Can't imagine keeping that kind of edge for a whole week. Wonder what his earnings were the week following. It would be an interesting case study.


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> I believe you. However, I am speculating that such an example is far from typical, and not at all representative of anything close to average. Matter of fact, I would think earnings like that in only one week should be flagged as "something-ain't-right-here" and looked into (ie multiple drivers? rest/safety concerns? etc). With only 168 hours in a week......minus, say 6 hours for sleep and human hygiene per day......minus, say 2 hours per day to eat, fuel and allow for bodily functions.....that should raise some concerns, especially with lower rates. For one, I wonder how this person could maintain an acceptable rating. The guy must be a super-man, or super-drugged or a super-zombie behind the wheel. Jezzz, I know how I feel after 10 hours of just sitting waiting for a ping...tired from just trying to maintain mental acuity. Kinda like a fireman waiting to hear the bell go off and slide down the pole and run to the truck. Can't imagine keeping that kind of edge for a whole week. Wonder what his earnings were the week following. It would be an interesting case study.


Couldn't have said it better myself!

We can see here that Worcester aint been on the Sauce!


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Many tweets to Uber_CHI about the same thing! Picture on the App wasn't the same guy or even car that picked em up! Wrong car, wrong license plate, wrong guy!


When I'm told that the Perp has "been personally known for many years" by the City office manager - I know its time to stop asking questions. How naive was I, thinking that Uber cares for a second if drivers /cars are legit?


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

OldTownSean said:


> Easy there buddy. People who own their own rides are under no obligation to dress up. They are driving long hours and want to be comfortable.
> 
> Now, if you are driving someone else's ride I can see them telling you what's what. When I own my own SUV/car service, of course the fools that drive my rides will have to wear shirts and ties, but if I drive it's shorts and a polo. Why? Because I'm the boss. That's why.
> 
> If he owns his own sweet ride, no one is telling the driver how to brand himself. As long as he is clean, smells good, and doesn't look like a scumbag, that should be enough. Some customers want the nice ride and a cool driver and he doesn't need to be all stuffy in a shirt and tie. Just my 2c. Tie doesn't make the man :0)


Hi Sean, your totally right when it comes to ridesharing in someone's private car. Neat, clean, personal hygiene in check is what I would expect as a rider.

But my comment was strictly about Black fleet / licensed Limos.

It is confusing - apologies


----------



## Pacdog (Sep 1, 2014)

It is confusing as to the different classes of drivers and Uber does not make or take the time on the website to let all riders know what to expect with each class makes it even more a snafu! The phone app when installed give no information as to any classes you pick (if your in a city that has different classes). All I see on my phone app as a rider is the different prices, how many riders and how long each different class will take to give me a ride. As a rider looking to hook up a few friends to go Black one would think it is a Limo ride with all the benefits of the same. What is Uber Black? 

Here is what the site says about the different classes!

X- Everyday cars for everyday use.
Better, faster, and cheaper than a taxi.

Taxi- No whistling, no waving, no cash needed.

Black- Your own private driver, on demand.
Expect pickup in a high-end sedan within minutes.

SUV- For those times when you need a bit more space.
Seats up to six people in style.

Lux- The finest cars with prices to match.

What does that really mean to a rider? 

Sure leaves allot of space open to as what your ordering as a rider and also sets up drivers. It's not a good model.


----------



## rtaatl (Jul 3, 2014)

whoisjohngalt said:


> This is what's known in logic as anecdotal fallacy. We don't care about your mystery man pulling in 2.5k+ a week. We care about how much a driver makes on average PER HOUR and what the median is. We care about the difference in what WE were making before the cuts and what we are making now.
> 
> Do you think I'm too stupid to do math and that, if Uber tells me it's so, I will believe them? Numbers don't lie.


I hear that...I get the uber spam text messages about how so and so made almost $3k this weekend and I'm like first he probably drives an SUV and second he probably hasn't changed his underwear in the past few days..lol! Seriously!


----------



## UberPup (Aug 16, 2014)

Uber's long term plan is to have driver less cars.

Took this kid tonight from India, he says that in India, the cars are subsidized by Uber. Not sure how much of it was BS, as he also claims to have met Travis. He says everyone drives Rolls Royce and Bentley there and you pay .50 a mile. He says you can't buy gas for that price. Interesting since India is on the metric system. Oh well.

He also said Travis doesn't care about anyone, everyone is replaceable and if you don't like the way things are then leave.

Like I said not sure how much is true and how much is adolescence embelishment.

He asked about tipping. I said I normally get tipped on the short rides. The ones that are about .5 mile. The people know it's not allot of money and they feel bad when the driver has to wait and they know there isn't allot of money in it, so I normally get tipped a couple of bucks on a short ride. He says, he always takes Uber on short rides and he never tips. Probably explains his 4.2 rider rating, just saying.

I told him about the litigation in court how Uber misrepresented the tipping to the customers and he says, Uber doesn't care, they'll just buy there way out of it.

I think I hit a nerve on the tipping subject, oh well, that why he's a 4.2 and I'm a 4.92.

I should've known when it took him over 5 minutes to get to the car and then he says he's late for an appointment.

Well you would be 5 minutes closer had you been at the curb when I showed up.

So I put him in traffic on the 405.

Ain't Karma a *****!!


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

I don't think the guy really knew what he was talking about! Uber drivers in India are protesting about grievances that mirror drivers grievances over here!

http://m.economictimes.com/news/pol...-its-global-policies/articleshow/41595154.cms


----------



## UberPup (Aug 16, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> I don't think the guy really knew what he was talking about! Uber drivers in India are protesting about grievances that mirror drivers grievances over here!
> 
> http://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/discontent-rises-amongst-uber-drivers-in-india-against-its-global-policies/articleshow/41595154.cms


I really didn't think so. He played himself as some big time internet entrepreneur. Said he had a really important meeting he was late for.

the meeting was at the veggie grill in Westwood. Its like a vegetarian McDonalds. The shit we put up with. Haha!!!

Like I said he was a 4.2 for a reason.

He said he always does short trips and his feedback shows it.

I really think he was put back when I was talking about tipping.

I still gave him a 5, but looking back on it now, and seeing the bull shit he was slinging at me, I should've gave him a 3.


----------



## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

OldTownSean said:


> Easy there buddy. People who own their own rides are under no obligation to dress up. They are driving long hours and want to be comfortable.
> 
> Now, if you are driving someone else's ride I can see them telling you what's what. *When I own my own SUV/car service, of course the fools that drive my rides* will have to wear shirts and ties, but if I drive it's shorts and a polo. Why? Because I'm the boss. That's why.
> 
> If he owns his own sweet ride, no one is telling the driver how to brand himself. As long as he is clean, smells good, and doesn't look like a scumbag, that should be enough. Some customers want the nice ride and a cool driver and he doesn't need to be all stuffy in a shirt and tie. Just my 2c. Tie doesn't make the man :0)


Funny, the way he thought about his drivers is the exact way Uber thinks about theirs. No wonder he defends Uber in every one of his posts.


----------



## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

MKEUber said:


> Funny, the way he thought about his drivers is the exact way Uber thinks about theirs. No wonder he defends Uber in every one of his posts.


Me? Defend uber? ROFL I don't have time for this. Someone who has read my posts plz straighten him out.

#readup


----------



## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

Pacdog said:


> Go to the website. They have one sentence replies to what is the difference to the different classes. Common Uber! You can do better.


Those are typical Millennial replies made by a company that is full of nothing but.


----------



## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Farlance said:


> You may think that, but we're actually pausing cities that are too saturated. San Diego is completely paused; No new BLACK or X drivers at all. LA and SF are paused for UberBLACK. So is Phoenix.


But they are still adding uberX in Los Angeles

Hundreds of drivers fighting for $2.40 fares.

Nobody can make money with these rates.

And the new drivers keep coming.......


----------



## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

My jaw dropped - why, because you are used to people making $8/hr?


----------



## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Farlance said:


> Oh, and the claims for how much you can make aren't inflated, actually; It's all based on how much you work.
> 
> I just answered a ticket from a driver who was pulling in $2.5k+/week doing UberX. I was floored. My jaw literally dropped.


2,500. Per week after fees / commisions would take over 126 hours minimum in Los Angeles.

18 hours a day, 7 days per week.

A few do it so cut rates for all? Nice.

Safe?

Normal?

Sustainable?

No.


----------



## cybertec69 (Jul 23, 2014)

Farlance said:


> Oh, and the claims for how much you can make aren't inflated, actually; It's all based on how much you work.
> 
> I just answered a ticket from a driver who was pulling in $2.5k+/week doing UberX. I was floored. My jaw literally dropped.


Was it gross, how many hours was he on the road , was it before or after uber raped him, and was it after all his weekly expenses, gas, insurance, car payment, maintenance, and don't forget the tax man at the end of the year, etc.


----------



## OldTownSean (Aug 14, 2014)

LAuberX said:


> 2,500. Per week after fees / commisions would take over 126 hours minimum in Los Angeles.
> 
> 18 hours a day, 7 days per week.
> 
> ...


So right. I'm sure this example was from an area with higher rates and multiple drivers using one account.

I've been in the business long enough to smell a rat.


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

UberPup said:


> He also said Travis doesn't care about anyone, everyone is replaceable and if you don't like the way things are then leave.


Probably true see:
http://valleywag.gawker.com/uber-ceo-continues-condescending-asshole-routine-1489169501


----------



## skccvb (Jul 27, 2014)

If über is actually "pausing" anywhere, it is only once the local market is completely "saturated" with drivers and even turnover does not make a dent in that saturation...


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> I believe you. However, I am speculating that such an example is far from typical, and not at all representative of anything close to average. Matter of fact, I would think earnings like that in only one week should be flagged as "something-ain't-right-here" and looked into (ie multiple drivers? rest/safety concerns? etc). With only 168 hours in a week......minus, say 6 hours for sleep and human hygiene per day......minus, say 2 hours per day to eat, fuel and allow for bodily functions.....that should raise some concerns, especially with lower rates. For one, I wonder how this person could maintain an acceptable rating. The guy must be a super-man, or super-drugged or a super-zombie behind the wheel. Jezzz, I know how I feel after 10 hours of just sitting waiting for a ping...tired from just trying to maintain mental acuity. Kinda like a fireman waiting to hear the bell go off and slide down the pole and run to the truck. Can't imagine keeping that kind of edge for a whole week. Wonder what his earnings were the week following. It would be an interesting case study.


Many taxi drivers in the IE lease the taxi 24/7 and drive 12 to 18 hours per day, some drivers on the weekend do not go home,
some taxi drivers lease the taxi from a driver owner, if the owner is also a driver then they drive a 12 hr shift.

at the beginning of the month i would do upto 100 hours per week, at the end of the month i lower my hours and take a few days off


----------



## BeachBum (Aug 6, 2014)

painfreepc said:


> Many taxi drivers in the IE lease the taxi 24/7 and drive 12 to 18 hours per day, some drivers on the weekend do not go home,
> some taxi drivers lease the taxi from a driver owner, if the owner is also a driver then they drive a 12 hr shift.


sounds like a great life.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

LAuberX said:


> 2,500. Per week after fees / commisions would take over 126 hours minimum in Los Angeles.
> 
> 18 hours a day, 7 days per week.
> 
> ...


This is such a glaring red flag! It's an authorized Driver sharing his account with an unauthorized person!


----------



## UberPissed (Aug 13, 2014)

"You do something good for the drivers and the riders are upset, you do something good for the riders and the drivers are upset," Kalanick observed.

http://readwrite.com/2014/09/08/uber-travis-kalanick-driverless-cars


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

BeachBum said:


> sounds like a great life.


If you like driving, you like people, you wish to make money, it is a great life.

this was my normal taxi hours in the inland empire:

Fri, Sat (30 hours): Fri 4am to Sat 10am - with a few hours sleep when you can get it.
Sat, Sun (16 hours): Sat 6pm to sun 10am
Sun pm - Off
Mon, (14 hours): Mon 3am to 11am and Mon 6pm to Mon midnight.
Tue - Off (option to work if I had an account or LAX run 4am to noon)
Wed, Thu (22 hours): Wed 3am to 11am and Wed 8pm to Thu noon
Thu pm - Off

thats 82 hours with tue off, if i worked 8 hours on tue i would hit 90 hours easy, it's not hard to do.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

UberPissed said:


> "You do something good for the drivers and the riders are upset, you do something good for the riders and the drivers are upset," Kalanick observed.
> 
> http://readwrite.com/2014/09/08/uber-travis-kalanick-driverless-cars


This was my comment in the article:

Uber drivers have endured 3 Rate Cuts in less than a year. Their commission has gone up from the discounted 5% to 20%. Then Uber started charging the drivers $10/week for the locked down UberPhone, with the UberDriver App as its sole functionality! This despite that this charge was never was mentioned when these drivers signed up, and is not spelled out in the Partnership Agreement between Uber and the Drivers.
The first two rate cuts were intended to undercut taxis. The latest Rate Cut of upto 25% is intended to undercut Lyft. This rate cut, along with massive poaching of Lyft drivers, and forcing UberBLACK/SUV drivers to accept UberX fares at UberX prices is part of the Uber strategy to KILL LYFT!
It's perfectly okay for TravisK to want to eradicate any competition, but he Doesn't get to do it on the backs of hard-working and good Drivers who've invested their Time & Capital (cars) in this venture! These full-time drivers are now in fact making poverty level wages, while Uber continues to lure in new drivers with ads touting bloated and borderline fraudulent earnings claims!
https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-vs-lyft-whats-really-going-on.2948/
https://uberpeople.net/threads/forced-to-accept-uberx-on-blackcar.2876/
https://uberpeople.net/threads/hey-uber-continue-to-closely-monitor-my-earnings.2345/


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

painfreepc said:


> If you like driving, you like people, you wish to make money, it is a great life.
> 
> this was my normal taxi hours in the inland empire:
> 
> ...


You say this as if we should all accept 100 hrs./wk as both necessary and desirable. Sorry, but that's not the case. I'm striving to make the most money in the least amount of time. Isn't that the goal?


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

UBER loves PR. I suggest this as a great new campaign: Let's have Mr. K and the top ten investors roll around picking up passengers in a Prius for a week.

Let's see how they do after expenses. Let's see how they get rated.

What a wonderful opportunity for learning about your customers and partners.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=3JO5-YjfC8yzSkKfZjo-Ew&bvm=bv.75097201,d.cGU

This has probably already made the rounds, but in case you haven't read it....


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

stuber said:


> You say this as if we should all accept 100 hrs./wk as both necessary and desirable. Sorry, but that's not the case. I'm striving to make the most money in the least amount of time. Isn't that the goal?


It's actually 90 hours, I edit my post.

60 to 72 hours is needed for a taxi driver to make money.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Point taken. You're right I think. But define "make money". $30k net? 50k? 70k? 72 hours a week x 50 weeks= 3600 hours/yr. Divide by 50k =$14/hr.(approximately)

I'm looking for more money for my time. But to each their own. There are ways to make 100k+ in the transportation business, but probably not sitting behind the wheel.

Though I do know a sedan owner/driver making $75k net. Private clients. Scheduled appointments. He has no set hours of course, but logs about 50-60 hours a week. That's more in line with my goals.


----------



## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Farlance said:


> Oh, and the claims for how much you can make aren't inflated, actually; It's all based on how much you work.
> 
> I just answered a ticket from a driver who was pulling in $2.5k+/week doing UberX. I was floored. My jaw literally dropped.


I know I'm a few weeks late to this rodeo, but just have to ask....

Farlance, always good seeing you post. This isn't against you but just a conversation. Don't take it personal but just coming from a skeptic who isn't great with numbers but has taken a few statistics classes.

There are always one or three cases for all extremes. Ever see a "Paid Advertisement" on TV showing the results of a Weight Loss, Acne Product, Real Estate with No Money Down, or Universal Health Product? Rarely if ever do you see references to hard data but only anecdotal references (and, "Your weigh loss may be significantly less").

I made $1000 gross in 4 days out at Coachella Music Festival this year (1st weekend). I therefore know this guy that made $1000 in 4 days driving uberX (week2 not that much and most likely won't do it in 2014). I also trashed my windshield in the Saturday sandstorm while driving Hwy 10 at 2am, but that's besides the point. So am I surprised that you saw a ticket for a driver pulling in $2.5K/week doing uberX in San Diego, not at all. Would I be surprised if the average uberX driver is making this, yes. Would I even be surprised if the Top 10-20% of uberX Drivers Nationwide are making this, yes. And especially if that average driver is in the LA/OC market after taking the 40% Fare cuts in 2014 (that's me).

To really use this $2.5K Gross example (just guessing Gross), was this before or after fare rate cuts? How many hours was this person working? Is this their average over the past 3, 6, 12 months or did it equate to long hours and great surges over a week or a few weeks? Was this for one driver or one car being driven by 2 or more people?

To really reference Income like $2.5K / week, you need to give us more support data. Using current Fares? How many hours driven to attain this total? Again, do I believe you? Absolutely. Am I still skeptical on the whole? Absolutely.

What does the Top 10-20% of uberX Drivers make and how many hours do they average to attain that amount. What does the average uberX driver gross by market (difference markets, different fare rates and # of rides averaged per hour). What % expenses from the Gross Fare should the average Driver expect to incur? I would be interested in more good hard data from Uber (or you). If am wrong, PLEASE PLEASE sit down with me and get into my thick head how to make $130,000 per year driving uberX. I'm serious. I'm always open to how I can improve and make some more money.

Again, references that are anecdotal are...well, just anecdotal.


----------



## Precious (Oct 10, 2014)

Gentlemen, I have enjoyed reading your dialogue. Have you stayed logged on for over 12 hours? If yes, did you get locked out?

Also if you know other ways to make more money in driving besides private clients, because I have none, please share. Thanks for your attention.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

SCdave said:


> I know I'm a few weeks late to this rodeo, but just have to ask....
> 
> Farlance, always good seeing you post. This isn't against you but just a conversation. Don't take it personal but just coming from a skeptic who isn't great with numbers but has taken a few statistics classes.
> 
> ...


Like this post SCDave.

Mark Twain says: "There's lies, there's damn lies, and then there's statistics"

In my experience, things that are actually a good deal rarely need much promotion. Word gets around without a lot of help. They are getting a bad reputation, and they don't seem to care about fixing that.

These days I view UBER as strictly second-rate jobs. Good as filler.


----------



## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> It occurs to me that the individual administrative costs to UBER of on-boarding a driver is minimal. It is basically done exclusively via email. Sure, you have some administrative staff, office rental & related expenses, lawyers, IT geeks and marketing types. However, the more drivers that are "on-boarded", the cheaper the cost to UBER on an incremental per driver basis.  *Therefore, the more drivers that are on-boarded...the cheaper the associated costs are for UBER per driver.* Even the background checks are bulk-rate contracts. As far as "HARD" costs per driver goes, there is only the cost of the phone, which is passed on to the driver (I will bet that Uber is actually making money on the phone as well, on a per unit bulk cost basis). Insurance is no longer a serious cost factor because of the $1 "safe rider" fee, which is a pass-through revenue source (per ride) to UBER.
> 
> *All that said, it is in UBER's interest to hire as many drivers as possible*....1 on every street corner, if possible. THINK ABOUT IT.....driver over-saturation BENEFITS UBER's top-line revenue growth (without adding any significant associate -per driver- expense). Driver over-saturation ALSO BENEFITS the RIDER for obvious reasons. Driver income plays NO PART in this equation and is IN FACT, the expendable component in UBER's "end game".
> 
> ...


Man did you hit it right on the head! It took me a minute to figure it out, but I did. After I quit my other job. They'd like it fine if every passenger vehicle world-wide was an Uber car, and people were making $.78 for letting the stoner down the block ride to McDonald's w/ you.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> Man did you hit it right on the head! It took me a minute to figure it out, but I did. After I quit my other job. They'd like it fine if every passenger vehicle world-wide was an Uber car, and people were making $.78 for letting the stoner down the block ride to McDonald's w/ you.


That is what Postmates is trying to siphon off.


----------



## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Precious said:


> Gentlemen, I have enjoyed reading your dialogue. Have you stayed logged on for over 12 hours? If yes, did you get locked out?
> 
> Also if you know other ways to make more money in driving besides private clients, because I have none, please share. Thanks for your attention.


Getaway Car in a Bank Robbery!


----------



## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> That is what Postmates is trying to siphon off.


Ahha, maybe I'll start SoberMates and drive sober people around and leave the overpaid Uber drivers to carry the drunks.


----------



## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

UberPup said:


> That's good to know. Thank you for the input. Here in Santa Monica, I have seen a surge in the X-cars since I started about 4 weeks ago. You always get a cluster of dumb ****s by the pier. I wont tell you where I go to get my rides, but I will say, it always seems like there are 8 cars that hover the pier and the shudders and case del mar hotel. Sorry, but that's too many cars for that area, especially at 8:00 am on a weekday.
> 
> And they don't move, they sit there and wait for a ping. Good for me, bad for them. You guys can sit there all day, especially since tourist season is pretty much over. Enjoy your 8 hour 2 figure day.


Way to get rid of the dumb****s. Put in a request, set your location 100 yards behind the end of the pier, sit pack and watch them drive off.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> Ahha, maybe I'll start SoberMates and drive sober people around and leave the overpaid Uber drivers to carry the drunks.


Postmates just delivers the McDonalds, the drunk would still ride with L


DriverJ said:


> Ahha, maybe I'll start SoberMates and drive sober people around and leave the overpaid Uber drivers to carry the drunks.


No, Postmates just delivers the McDonalds. Drivers still get to give drunken individuals rides.


----------



## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> Postmates just delivers the McDonalds, the drunk would still ride with L
> 
> No, Postmates just delivers the McDonalds. Drivers still get to give drunken individuals rides.


Oh - I think I'd rather haul the Big Macs.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

DriverJ said:


> Oh - I think I'd rather haul the Big Macs.


Either way your car smells.


----------



## TidyVet (Dec 27, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> This was my comment in the article:
> 
> Uber drivers have endured 3 Rate Cuts in less than a year. Their commission has gone up from the discounted 5% to 20%. Then Uber started charging the drivers $10/week for the locked down UberPhone, with the UberDriver App as its sole functionality! This despite that this charge was never was mentioned when these drivers signed up, and is not spelled out in the Partnership Agreement between Uber and the Drivers.
> The first two rate cuts were intended to undercut taxis. The latest Rate Cut of upto 25% is intended to undercut Lyft. This rate cut, along with massive poaching of Lyft drivers, and forcing UberBLACK/SUV drivers to accept UberX fares at UberX prices is part of the Uber strategy to KILL LYFT!
> ...


He actually does get to do it on the "backs of hard-working and good Drivers". That's how the world works.

If you don't like it, start your own business. Clean houses. You charge $30/hour, and your cleaning products only take about 5-10% of that.

Put up some flyers, bam, you have a business. Put up more flyers, hire employees, get a website.


----------



## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Agree 100% BUT !! This does not and will not applie to the whole market there is hope 
Because McDonals sells 99 cent cheeseburgers or Del Taco sells 49 cent tacos does not mean people are not buying other more expensive options actually I have seen an improvement on the non UBER riders because the low quality riders migrated to UBER , I keep trying to tell you guys there are better ways out there it just you guys are under a severely rigged system 
Revolution anyone ?????


----------



## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

TidyVet said:


> He actually does get to do it on the "backs of hard-working and good Drivers". That's how the world works.
> 
> If you don't like it, start your own business. Clean houses. You charge $30/hour, and your cleaning products only take about 5-10% of that.
> 
> Put up some flyers, bam, you have a business. Put up more flyers, hire employees, get a website.


 Thank you for that


----------



## TidyVet (Dec 27, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> Agree 100% BUT !! This does not and will not applie to the whole market there is hope
> Because McDonals sells 99 cent cheeseburgers or Del Taco sells 49 cent tacos does not mean people are not buying other more expensive options actually I have seen an improvement on the non UBER riders because the low quality riders migrated to UBER , I keep trying to tell you guys there are better ways out there it just you guys are under a severely rigged system
> Revolution anyone ?????


Like 99% of the people out there, you discuss problems.

Instead of solutions.


----------



## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

You have to really want it not easy
1 get your TCP ( current business for me) one man show of course
2 join other uber drivers "union " and start your own TNC
2 belive it or not it's not hard to start your own taxicab service ( I had one for a few years) just start it in a small city easier permits
3 become a private circle drive ( I did it for a few years too)
4 become a bandit driver ( did that too)
5 become a designated driver ( that too worked well for me ) donation/ tips
6 don't be afraid hand out cards , post stickers with your phone # on pay phones , bars , etc advertise the best results on the Internet come from free advertising


----------

