# Your Cheap Uber Rides May Be Going Away. And That's a Good Thing.



## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2...s-may-soon-be-over-heres-why-thats-good-thing


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

I want a revamping off the Agreement so it is more balanced. Right now it leads heavily towards Uber's interests.

To make ICs more independent: 1) The rates and fee per mile/minute should be no less than 75% of the local cab rate. 2) Uber's commission needs to be between 10% and 15%. The commission of the upper platforms should not be raised to make up for the lowest rates on the platform. 3) Uber will not admonish drivers for accepting tips. It is a rider's right to tip; tips are a part of a service provider's earnings. 4) Ratings should be banished. If a rider has a complaint, let them email Uber. No complaints? The customer is satisfied.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd (Aug 17, 2015)

UberNorthStar said:


> I want a revamping off the Agreement so it is more balanced. Right now it leads heavily towards Uber's interests.
> 
> To make ICs more independent: 1) The rates and fee per mile/minute should be no less than 75% of the local cab rate. 2) Uber's commission needs to be between 10% and 15%. The commission of the upper platforms should not be raised to make up for the lowest rates on the platform. 3) Uber will not admonish drivers for accepting tips. It is a rider's right to tip; tips are a part of a service provider's earnings. 4) Ratings should be banished. If a rider has a complaint, let them email Uber. No complaints? The customer is satisfied.


Every word of this is exactly on POINT. And add in a few line item charges as well:

1) Requesting a ride outside the normal pick radius...$10 surcharge
2) Waiting more than 5 minutes...$.50/Min metered time
3) A destination more than xx miles outside the primary service area...automatic 1.5x fare rate
4) Min X fares at least $6-8, depending on market. No more bus/walking fares. That's why taxpayers pay for public transportation programs.
5) Uber X Commission needs to scale down based on ride volumes...thus providing incentive to more active drivers!

And of course, the holy grail. In-App Tip Feature.


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

they just need to charge more so the drivers can make some money and all this goes away.


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

Higher fares for Uber can significantly decrease demand and result in less overall earnings for Uber partners. Uber has the data to back up the pricing for each city, and optimises the pricing so drivers make the most money. Keep in mind that Uber only makes money when you make money.

Being treated as an employee could mean:

*- NO SURGES*, because
*- NO FLEXIBILITY *as your manager can make you start driving when there is high demand
- NO ABILITY to drive for other ridesharing companies, and no ability to start and stop working when you want to.
- LOWER EARNINGS as explained


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

glados said:


> Higher fares for Uber can significantly decrease demand and result in less overall earnings for Uber partners. Uber has the data to back up the pricing for each city, and optimises the pricing so drivers make the most money. Keep in mind that Uber only makes money when you make money.
> 
> Being treated as an employee could mean:
> 
> ...


I'm convinced you work for Uber, were an early driver or a brand ambassador.

A lean to towards employment would mean payment of _*at least minimum wage plus expenses reimbursed*_ or the agreement and amount of control Uber exert needs to change.

Cities are discovering the biased agreement towards drivers, exactly why the IC vs Employement question arrises. If Uber don't want to blur the lines of employed drivers they need to back off.


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

Instyle said:


> A lean to towards employment would mean payment of _*at least minimum wage plus expenses reimbursed*_ or the agreement and amount of control Uber exert needs to change.


Uber is already paying partners much higher earnings above minimum wage, through fares or topped up with the guarantee.

In Melbourne, there are over *120 hours per week of guarantees. *During peak hours they are *$32 / hour in fares* and $24 / hour otherwise. Even after commission, that's *$25.60 / hour to $19.20 / hour* to your bank account -- an amount considerably higher than minimum wage.
http://drive.uber.com/melbourne/uberx/melxincentives/

These are just the floors for earnings -- many drivers are making upwards of *$50 / hour* in Australian markets during surges.

Instyle, do you want to make $15 / hour at minimum wage or $25.60 to $50 / hour in take home pay? I think you can clearly see how the Uber model is superior for drivers.

Finally, please note I am only commenting on the IC vs employee discussion from a US perspective. In Australia, the ATO deputy commissioner Michael Hardy has stated that *under Australian law, Uber partners are classified as* *contractors*.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd (Aug 17, 2015)

glados said:


> Higher fares for Uber can significantly decrease demand and result in less overall earnings for Uber partners. Uber has the data to back up the pricing for each city, and optimises the pricing so drivers make the most money. Keep in mind that Uber only makes money when you make money.
> 
> Being treated as an employee could mean:
> 
> ...


Glados, which platform(s) do you drive? How long have you been activated? How many rides have you completed?


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

glados said:


> Uber is already paying partners much higher earnings above minimum wage, through fares or topped up with the guarantee.
> 
> In Melbourne, there are over *120 hours per week of guarantees. *During peak hours they are *$32 / hour in fares* and $24 / hour otherwise. Even after commission, that's *$25.60 / hour to $19.20 / hour* to your bank account -- an amount considerably higher than minimum wage.
> http://drive.uber.com/melbourne/uberx/melxincentives/
> ...


Your peak hours are extremely limited so lets use the $24 figure. Thats 19.20 banked minus 2.18 GST = $17.02 p/hr taxable income or average weekly amount $646.76 with NO superannuation accruing.

Minimul wage for 38 hr week is $719.30 including 9.5% super annuation paid into your fund. Plus you would be reimbursed vehicle expenses while still being about to claim vehicle depreciation.

The employee setup is more money in my example. Now while I'll agree there are some or an elite few on Uber that are earning decent amounts, the vast majority are not! There's not much difference between cutting the a$$ out of fares and making it only somewhat profitable to drive during Uber specified incentive hours versus decent fares in an employer setup and being told when your shift is.

The only reason the ATO have taken the IC stance at this stage is because based on the limited information they had made available to them. That will change


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

glados said:


> Higher fares for Uber can significantly decrease demand and result in less overall earnings for Uber partners. Uber has the data to back up the pricing for each city, and optimises the pricing so drivers make the most money. Keep in mind that Uber only makes money when you make money.
> 
> Being treated as an employee could mean:
> 
> ...


POST # 5/glados : Spam, spam, spam
spam. Spam, spam,
spam, spam. Spam, spam, Glados is spam!
Glados is spam! 
Glados is spam!
chi1cabby 's not a fan!
Bison's ready to Slam the Spam!
Tricky Nicky I will damn!
NOT Wonderful Spam!
Perdition filled Spam!
UPNF should really Ban!
Glados is Spam!
Wham, bam this Damn Spam!

Where is secretadmirer when I 
REALLY need'im ?
Wil_Iam_Fuber'd , any bets that
@AutomatonBoy doesn't know of
Monty Python ?


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

glados said:


> Uber is already paying partners much higher earnings above minimum wage, through fares or topped up with the guarantee.
> 
> In Melbourne, there are over *120 hours per week of guarantees. *During peak hours they are *$32 / hour in fares* and $24 / hour otherwise. Even after commission, that's *$25.60 / hour to $19.20 / hour* to your bank account -- an amount considerably higher than minimum wage.
> http://drive.uber.com/melbourne/uberx/melxincentives/
> ...


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## ubershiza (Jan 19, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 5/glados : Spam, spam, spam
> spam. Spam, spam,
> spam, spam. Spam, spam, Glados is spam!
> Glados is spam!
> ...


That's some mighty tasty spam!


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## 1LIFE (Aug 24, 2015)

glados said:


> Higher fares for Uber can significantly decrease demand and result in less overall earnings for Uber partners. Uber has the data to back up the pricing for each city, and optimises the pricing so drivers make the most money. Keep in mind that Uber only makes money when you make money.
> 
> Being treated as an employee could mean:
> 
> ...


Honestly... the rates do not need to be raised very much...

Here in Seattle WA market... the rates are $1.35 per mile and $0.24 per minute.

My record for the shortest trip I've given to a rider is 0.29 miles... (literally 3 city blocks... and the riders fare was like $4.20 and my profit was about $2.40.)

The majority of trips in Seattle market are about 2-4 miles... and the profit is very small.

This is how casually this market uses Uber. Some use it as their only form of transportation.

I've checked and the average salary for a taxi driver is about $30,000 per year... I'm sure this is on the high end... I've seen other reports as low as $25,000 per year.

It's Ubers fault for sending advertisements saying... "Drivers are making "Serious Life Changing Money" driving for Uber."

It's a taxi service... nothing about being a taxi driver (profession or money) is "life changing" ... and the ads presented by Uber are false in that sense... but they make people believe it so they sign up to be a driver.

I would never want to be an employee for Uber... because if I was... and my salary was $30,000 per year... I would have to pay approximately $6,000 in taxes (20%). So my income would be approximately $24,000.00.

Since I am NOT an employee, and the advantage of being an Independent Contractor with my own business license and doing my own taxes... I will make $30,000 in a years time... and pay close to $0.00 in taxes because my deductions and misc expenses according the IRS (mileage and misc deductions) will cancel out any taxes owed. And I will be able to keep all $30,000.

Being an IC... I work whatever hours I want... which is a huge bonus for me. I love that. I usually put in about 5 to 7 hours of work per day.

The Surge earnings are nice when they happen. Seattle surges somewhat frequently because demand is always high.

So... employee for Uber means $24,000 per year... where as IC for Uber means $30,000 per year.

Seattle's demand is literally 24/7 ... when I turn on my driver app in Seattle... the average wait time for an Uber Rider to call is 1 second to 1 minute... no matter what my location is and no matter what time of day it is. The majority of trips are short... but it's a numbers game and I do get some nice long trips mixed in once in a while.

However... I do believe the rider rates could be raised a little bit without decreasing the demand.

Even if the riders rates were raised to $1.50 per mile and $0.50 per minute, the demand would not decrease... and would make driving for Uber much better as far as earnings per year.

I hope they raise the rider rates. I believe they are a bit too low.

I actually feel bad for the people who use the Xchange to lease a vehicle... starting out every week $100 or more in the negative would be such a terrible feeling. That's why I don't even use the Uber Fuel Card. I have it... but don't use it.

This is my take on it all... I would never want to be an employee... being a IC is much better.


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## CROWBOY (May 31, 2015)

glados said:


> Higher fares for Uber can significantly decrease demand and result in less overall earnings for Uber partners. Uber has the data to back up the pricing for each city, and optimises the pricing so drivers make the most money. Keep in mind that Uber only makes money when you make money.
> 
> Being treated as an employee could mean:
> 
> ...


Less is less. You're operating costs and dead miles don't decrease. It's simple math.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd (Aug 17, 2015)

[QUOTE="Casuale Haberdasher
Wil_Iam_Fuber'd , any bets that
@AutomatonBoy doesn't know of
Monty Python ?[/QUOTE]

Well, it is a Robot...and Sir Lord @S$Hat of Dousheville has no concept of humour so he didn't program his UDs with a sense of one...I'd bet No.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

glados said:


> Uber has the data to back up the pricing for each city, and optimises the pricing so drivers make the most money. Keep in mind that Uber only makes money when you make money.


 Absolute nonsense. Uber also makes money when the driver sitting next to me gets the ping instead of me. Uber makes money; I do not.


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## Lack9133 (Mar 26, 2015)

glados said:


> Higher fares for Uber can significantly decrease demand and result in less overall earnings for Uber partners. Uber has the data to back up the pricing for each city, and optimises the pricing so drivers make the most money. Keep in mind that Uber only makes money when you make money.
> 
> Being treated as an employee could mean:
> 
> ...


It's very obvious that you're an Uber employee trying to sway public opinion. The fact of the matter is, Uber is never going to go towards employees. They will change their business model before that happens so your list scare tactics is nonsense.


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## ocbob2 (Aug 18, 2015)

glados said:


> Higher fares for Uber can significantly decrease demand and result in less overall earnings for Uber partners. Uber has the data to back up the pricing for each city, and optimises the pricing so drivers make the most money. Keep in mind that Uber only makes money when you make money.
> 
> Being treated as an employee could mean:
> 
> ...


Can you go **** off and get back to work at Uber or is this your job at Uber? Less money for fares = less profit. Uber might make a little more but drivers sure don't make more profit. Then again, why would Uber care enough for their drivers?


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

glados said:


> Higher fares for Uber can significantly decrease demand and result in less overall earnings for Uber partners. Uber has the data to back up the pricing for each city, and optimises the pricing so drivers make the most money. Keep in mind that Uber only makes money when you make money.
> 
> Being treated as an employee could mean:
> 
> ...


What a bunch of bull!!!


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

1LIFE said:


> Honestly... the rates do not need to be raised very much...
> 
> Here in Seattle WA market... the rates are $1.35 per mile and $0.24 per minute.
> 
> ...


POST # 13/1LIFE: You seem to have a
balanced viewpoint
regarding the Pluses/Minuses of being
a #[F]Uberer. Did You REALLY read the
Partnership Agreement ?

"NEW DRIVERS have only 30 Days to
Opt-out of BINDING ARBITRATION!"
https://uberpeople.net/posts/402925

Mentoring Bison: NUberer Advisor.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

Hi 1Life.

Welcome to the forum!

Please read your Partnership Agreement.

New Drivers have 30 Days to Opt-out of *Binding Arbitration.*


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

[SIZE=6]1[/SIZE]LIFE said:


> Honestly... the rates do not need to be raised very much...
> 
> Here in Seattle WA market... the rates are $1.35 per mile and $0.24 per minute.


You can thank the Mr. O'Brien of your city council, ABDA and the Teamsters for that 25 cent per mile increase. The rest of us on the Mainland are hovering around $1.00 per mile. Dallas is at 85 cents per mile and Atlanta is at 75 cents per mile.

I prefer to be an independent contractor, also. Uber's agreement is too one-sided in its favor. These are the terms of agreement I would want changed.

The rates and fee per mile/minute should be no less than 75% of the local cab rate.
Uber's commission needs to be between 10% and 15%. The commission of the upper platforms should not be raised to make up for the lowest rates on the platform.
If Uber sticks to the 20% they can do one of two things. A) On each paycheck repay a driver 18 cents (half of 36 cents) per mile to help drivers with the cost of operating their car. *OR *B) Furnish each driver _full commercial insurance_ that is good from the time the app is turned on until the last pax is delivered to their destination. Non of this "contingency" jazz. Uber knows full well that here in TX drivers will be cancelled if a U claim is filed with personal insurance. No personal insurance? U deactivates driver knowing full well that most personal insurance will not cover a U claim. 
Uber will not admonish drivers for accepting tips. It is a rider's right to tip; tips are a part of a service provider's earnings.
Ratings should be banished. If a rider has a complaint, let them email Uber. No complaints? The customer is satisfied. Most riders believe a 5 is "perfection" and 3 is "average." If Uber must have a rating, it should be a longer range of 10-1 with a cause for counseling (not deactivation) if it drops below a 6. If it stays as is (5-1), a pax should be asked "Why did you rate this way?" for 3 and under. No answer given, then the driver gets a 5. 
On the subject of ratings, pax should be given a maximum of 1 hour (if that) to rate the driver. This ensures the drive is fresh in the pax's mind. No more waiting until pax cannot request another ride (several days down the road) to rate driver b/c pax needs to rate last ride.
ICs should have representation when a new agreement is written. Uber has its lawyers. This way drivers can feel the agreements are not so one-sided.
Since you are new, do you know how the James River policy covers you and how it does not? This is the way I explain it . . .

_*My insurance agent* reviewed the Uber insurance policy (aka James Rivers) for me. These were his comments.
1. There is nothing in the JR policy to cover damage to my vehicle or my medical expenses. [Commercial (bodily, collision, comprehensive)] 
2. Forget the contingency clause. If my insurance learned I was driving for-hire, they would cancel my auto insurance immediately. (So, I am not driving yet.)
3. The JR policy is *liability insurance *to cover my passengers' medical and property damage expenses, the "other guy's" medical and property damage. The $1M umbrella policy I consider to be a CYA for *Uber incase it is sued.*

Here is the link to both the $1M umbrella policy & the liability coverage.
https://uber-regulatory-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/insurance/COIs/MI.pdf

In TX most if not all policies carry an exclusion of coverage for vehicles-for-hire. This includes personal vehicles used for pizza delivery, newspaper delivery, and transporting people for payment, whether payment is immediate or a week later through a third party.

Many people in the States are driving on their personal policy not realizing they are committing insurance fraud by not letting their insurance company know they are driving on the Uber app. Should they need to file an Uber-related claim, their insurance could be cancelled with their name blacklisted for reference to other insurance companies. _

I wish you well in your business.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

My big beef is the line, which I think currently states, "Tipping is not necessary." As I've mentioned in other threads, having owned a company that used independent contractors for temp staffing, that I feel that is a broad overreach employer's control of the worker. That's something employers state. I've worked for companies that forbade accepting gifts from customers or vendors. You could get fired. ICs should not be denied the ability to accept gratuities.

As for the cab business, yes, some honest to goodness hard working people are suffering, but it is ever so when a disruptive technology comes along. The problem is, the cab business is often in collusion with local officials to limit cab permits by making political campaign donations to said local officials. New York City has practically the same number of medallion cabs as they did 80 years ago when the city began regulating the taxi cab industry. Prior to Uber, medallions cost $1.1 million on the open market in NYC, if you could even convince a cab company to sell you one.

My sympathy for the cab industry is non-existent.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

California, and I think NYC, both have associations for ride share providers. Not just forums, but actual registered not for profit associations with dues and by-laws, etc. It might be something for drivers in various markets to consider.


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## 1LIFE (Aug 24, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 13/1LIFE: You seem to have a
> balanced viewpoint
> regarding the Pluses/Minuses of being
> a #[F]Uberer. Did You REALLY read the
> ...


Yes, I read the entire agreement... why do you ask?


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## 1LIFE (Aug 24, 2015)

UberNorthStar said:


> You can thank the Mr. O'Brien of your city council, ABDA and the Teamsters for that 25 cent per mile increase. The rest of us on the Mainland are hovering around $1.00 per mile. Dallas is at 85 cents per mile and Atlanta is at 75 cents per mile.4
> 
> I prefer to be an independent contractor, also. Uber's agreement is too one-sided in its favor. These are the terms of agreement I would want changed.
> 
> ...


Being in this business definitely has its good and bad aspects. (Just like every other occupation on planet earth.)

I can understand your hesitation due to the whole insurance thing.

Yes, many drivers, are risking a lot if they don't aquire adequate commercial insurance coverage.

I know your intentions are for the good, to bring this to my attention. But I feel you have assumed that I didn't do my homework. Maybe alot of people don't do their homework, but I do.

I agree about the rider rates being set so low... whoever is in charge of setting the rider rates should be fired, LOL, because Uber (and all drivers) is losing out of a lot of money, every minute of every day, by not raising the rates.

Truly the far too low rider rates are an embarrassment to the whole Uber company for the unique technology driven stealthy and personal service we provide.

I feel bad for those who are in markets with lower than $1.00 per mile... thats unspeakable and Im not sure I would drive if they were that low here.

While there are changes that I would make about Uber... it really doesn't matter to Uber.

The smart thing for any driver to do would be to save a good portion of the money, that would have been paid in taxes, in a emergency fund in case of inevitable major repair or maintenance costs that are unavoidable.

The issue is... some drivers think it would be better to be an employee... when clearly its much more valuable and profitable to be an independent contractor.

As for the arbitration agreement or opt out ... any dispute that I feel the need to bring Uber company attention will likely not be something that I'm interested in taking them to court for. A legal arbitrator would likely be all thats necessary... and much cheaper.

Each is entitled to own opinion.

The bottom line is... agree and drive... or disagree and do not drive.

And if driving, do your homework and get commercial insurance coverage as soon as possible.


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## UberBlackPr1nce (Dec 28, 2014)

glados said:


> Uber is already paying partners much higher earnings above minimum wage, through fares or topped up with the guarantee.
> 
> In Melbourne, there are over *120 hours per week of guarantees. *During peak hours they are *$32 / hour in fares* and $24 / hour otherwise. Even after commission, that's *$25.60 / hour to $19.20 / hour* to your bank account -- an amount considerably higher than minimum wage.
> http://drive.uber.com/melbourne/uberx/melxincentives/
> ...


Your referring to places who rates are good or has the mass volume you would need to make cheap fares viable.
Give me your your statistics on the Atlanta market?


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## UberBlackPr1nce (Dec 28, 2014)

1LIFE said:


> Honestly... the rates do not need to be raised very much...
> 
> Here in Seattle WA market... the rates are $1.35 per mile and $0.24 per minute.
> 
> ...


I'm with you on being a IC over employee. But they really need to rethink there business model in some markets like Atlanta. The volume and rate sucks.


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## UberBlackPr1nce (Dec 28, 2014)

Lack9133 said:


> It's very obvious that you're an Uber employee trying to sway public opinion. The fact of the matter is, Uber is never going to go towards employees. They will change their business model before that happens so your list scare tactics is nonsense.


Lol. Yea they won't make any money if everyone was classified as employees and hey had to suddenly pay benefits and gas renibursments. Uber would become that "remember when" quote, i.e. blockbuster & Hollywood video.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

1LIFE said:


> But I feel you have assumed that I didn't do my homework. Maybe alot of people don't do their homework, but I do.


You are one of the few who has done his homework.  Many who are just coming on have not, which is not an assumption. It is as fact.

JM2¢W


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


>


POST # 11/TwoFiddyMile: What a Per-
fectly Thoughtful
Response at the end of my Data "Month".
I happily reReviewed the "Spam Sketch" with the Harmonizing Vikings and the
Commonsense Suggestion of "Spam, Eggs,
Sausages and Spam...it doesn't have MUCH
Spam in it.."

With about a half-Gigabyte of Use-it-or-
Lose-it Data Left, I perused the YouTube
archives to find a Sampler that included
"Dead Parrot Sketch" with John Cleese
going all "Lewis Black" on squirrelly Pet
Shop Owner, Michael Palin [Its just restin'
...all shagged-out after Vicious Squawk...
ah, he's Pining for the Fjords...beautiful
plumage, the Norwegian Blue!".]

The "Spanish Inquisition" was funnier
the 1st time on PBS, in the late 1970's.
I took pride in remembering the lyrics
in "The Lumberjack Song". The Original
of the "Argument Clinic" seemed to have
more lines of hysterical contradictions.

I also reviewed segments of "And now, for
Something Completely Different", and
finished up with a Forgotten sing-along
at the Hollywood Bowl, with Eric Idle
leading the Appreciative Audience on
Verses of "Drunk Philosophers" with the
Cast dressed in WWII ANZAC uniforms
and lobbing 25.4fl.oz. "Stubbies" of
Foster's into the Multi-Aged Southern
California Crowd.

Good times!
Thanks, TwoFiddyMile !


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

riChElwAy said:


> http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2...s-may-soon-be-over-heres-why-thats-good-thing


Reality of Uber and companies like it for the worker:

"Most 1099 start-ups insist their approach is better for workers. They're typically allowed to set their own hours and, in the words of Steven Hsaio, the CEO of SpoonRocket, to become "their own entrepreneurs." Such flexibility and autonomy might be ideal for students, artists, and anyone else looking to earn a few extra bucks in their free time, but it's hard to see how it benefits people for whom such work is the sole means of making a living.

'If we want to live in a country where you can have a job and work 9 to 5 and have that be enough, then maybe we want to think about what these business models are doing to the larger economy,' Veena Dubal, an expert on the 'sharing economy,' said recently on a San Francisco radio show."


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

glados said:


> Higher fares for Uber can significantly decrease demand and result in less overall earnings for Uber partners. Uber has the data to back up the pricing for each city, and optimises the pricing so drivers make the most money. Keep in mind that Uber only makes money when you make money.
> 
> Being treated as an employee could mean:
> 
> ...


It seems you are making the assumption that one is either an independent contractor or an employee in the traditional sense. I doubt very much these are the only options. I foresee Uber and other similarly situation companies coming up with a new type of model for workers similar to the Europeans dependent contractor. Judge Chen and others have been hinting to this. I think there are too many variables up in the air to make these types of assumptions. I know that when we worked at a guarantee earlier this year, I made more money on the weekend at peak time than I do now and it was within my control how many hours I worked. I just had to make sure to meet the requirements. It may be that Uber and Lyft end up doing something like they did with the guarantees to get around these issues.

If Uber is honest that surge pricing is based on an supply v. demand algorithm, there will still be surge pricing.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

If Uber made us all employees, we would only work part time so they don't have to provide benefits like insurance, work the areas they tell us to and the shifts they assign to us. We couldn't decline dispatches.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> If Uber made us all employees, we would only work part time so they don't have to provide benefits like insurance, work the areas they tell us to and the shifts they assign to us. We couldn't decline dispatches.


Neither you nor anyone else knows how Uber would handle the drivers if they need to change the way they classify them.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

http://adage.com/article/digitalnext/nuber-end-uber-central-authority/310045/
*Nuber: The End of Uber and Central Authority*
August 7 2017 By Shelly Palmer









Credit: Illustration by Ad Age
A recent study found that "drivers were finding ways to trick the algorithms that Uber uses to control them to cancel fares they didn't want and to avoid the unpopular UberPOOL." The same study found that drivers "also organise mass 'switch-offs' so the lack of drivers in a certain area causes surge pricing."

This should surprise no one. Many Uber drivers feel (rightly or wrongly) that they are underpaid, overworked, and generally treated unfairly. The drivers have tried to unionize, they ad hoc collectively bargain, and they have vigorously campaigned on social media to protest their work conditions.

*A central authority*
At a macro level, they are not unhappy with Uber; they are unhappy being subservient to a central authority. This is not a new story. History is replete with tales of the oppressed proletariat rising up against their aristocratic overlords. Revolts of this type have not, historically speaking, ended well for the noble-born.

As I have previously written,

The entire internet is highly centralized. Data are routed through trusted servers on trusted networks. You trust Google with your Gmail. You trust Facebook with your friends. You trust your online banker with your money. You trust your credit card and shopping data to Amazon. You trust Verizon when you access its network. To do business online today is to trust central entities with everything about you and your actions.

*What if there was no central authority?*
Here's an idea &#8230; I'll call it "Nuber." You can think of it as a technology that offers all the value Uber offers, but the drivers get all the money. Here's how it would work.

At Nuber, a licensed ride-sharing service driver (an individual with a local business license, a commercial driver's license, and the required insurance) could be summoned through a meta-ride-sharing app and paid directly with no central authority such as Uber, Lyft, or Didi Chuxing. There would be no middleman, just you and a licensed, customer-reviewed driver. Nuber would work exactly like Uber, but all the value captured by Uber would be recaptured by the drivers. Great for the drivers, not so great for the central authority, Uber.

Now, apply this idea (a trusted decentralized network) to every type of on-demand business. In this new sharing economy, chatbots or meta-apps or a simple search would yield a list of accurately reviewed (only by customers who had purchased the goods or services as verified by the underlying technology) vendors in merit order.

Now, imagine if you had software on your smartphone that would do some quick math (optimal stopping or multi-armed bandit calculations) to determine which offer was best for you at the moment you were in the market. How different would the sharing economy be if everything you wanted to share was offered in a giant real-time auction with no middleman, no central authority, just a free market based on supply and demand?

*Blockchain*
The technology that will empower trusted decentralized marketplaces is here. It's called blockchain, and this may be the year that it breaks free from the shackles of super-hype.

As you know, blockchain is closely associated with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. That's because, as of this writing, all cryptocurrencies require blockchain. However, there are many other uses for blockchain that have nothing to do with cryptocurrencies. There are hundreds of startups (and internal projects inside big corporations) working hard to make blockchain mainstream - there are too many to mention. Just Google "blockchain startups." They're all the rage.

*What is blockchain?*
Often referred to as a "distributed ledger," blockchain is a continuously growing list (digital file) of encrypted transactions (called "blocks") that are distributed (copied) to a peer-to-peer (P2P) network of computers. Encrypted transactions are the key to blockchain's value. The user's "public key" is stored in the block and becomes an "address" on the blockchain. Files, such as cryptocurrencies or other digital assets, are recorded as belonging to a specific block. A corresponding "private key" is required to access the associated digital assets. (Keeping your private key private is so important that to protect their digital assets from hackers, many people do not keep digital copies of their private keys. They write the number on a piece of paper and keep the paper in a secure location, like a wall safe.)

P2P or mesh networks are decentralized computer networks where each computer (node) acts as both a client (a computer that accesses information on a server) and a server (a computer that serves information to clients). At scale, P2P networks are self-healing and very stable because the information is replicated in thousands, and in some cases millions, of places.

There are two general types of blockchain networks: anonymous networks, where each user has a copy of the entire blockchain and helps process and confirm transactions; and permission-based (non-anonymous) networks, where permission is required to possess a copy of the blockchain and to help process and confirm transactions.

*When will Nuber exist?*
Blockchain is about to transition from a potentially valuable technology to a revenue-generating technology. This will occur as the hundreds of startups working with blockchain and smart contracts (contracts that digitally report whether or not their conditions have been met) start to bring their solutions to market this year.

The only things standing in the way of the new Nuber are a few motivated individuals, a GitHub account, and enough chocolate-covered coffee beans to keep the teams awake while they work on it. Which is the whole point. There's basically nothing standing in the way of this new approach to economic equality. Is this really the end of Uber? Probably not. Nuber is just an idea (and a trademark infringement lawsuit waiting to happen). But it will be exciting to see how trusted, decentralized network technologies change the world.


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## Yulli Yung (Jul 4, 2017)

UberNorthStar said:


> I want a revamping off the Agreement so it is more balanced. Right now it leads heavily towards Uber's interests.
> 
> To make ICs more independent: 1) The rates and fee per mile/minute should be no less than 75% of the local cab rate. 2) Uber's commission needs to be between 10% and 15%. The commission of the upper platforms should not be raised to make up for the lowest rates on the platform. 3) Uber will not admonish drivers for accepting tips. It is a rider's right to tip; tips are a part of a service provider's earnings. 4) Ratings should be banished. If a rider has a complaint, let them email Uber. No complaints? The customer is satisfied.


Was all this just part of your dream last night. Might as well have been


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