# Termination without explanation.



## mrbrown2645 (Apr 7, 2018)

Amazon is definitely having a purge again. Ever since the updates to the app. Its either people with Androids (not the only victim) or maybe amazon's way of clearing out old contractors for new ones. The recent updates have caused some many problems doing blocks. I have for 4 times with in a 2 week period have not been able to continue onto the next the block after another, meaning if the app states the "you will continue delivery until (time) even though the blocks have different locations. I was not able to check in the blocks I was scheduled to do after. I was at the location of the block to start. Of course, I had screened shot everything, called support and emailed with vivid details on what happens with the app during those moments. But after 7 months with over a thousand deliveries and an average 97 percent summary report overall. They still let me go with no explanation either. I did ask to appeal and what policies I have violated since there is no explanation in the email, but as usual support can not create sentences on their own. Guess I'll keep bugging them until I get an answer.

Any advice, do rely on this to pay for a lot things.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

Just a guess that you just don't know how to use the app enough.

I was asked to return to station today even though I have nothing to return and all packages have been delivered, I just click "help", "I'm at the location but GPS is not working" and my block is over. On to the next.

As for Amazon purging drivers, it's a constant process as well onboarding new drivers. Nothing new.

Advice: Don't rely on Amazon. Always have backup of backups.


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## mrbrown2645 (Apr 7, 2018)

I've been doing flex with 30hr plus a week for 7 months. I'm pretty I know how to use the app. 
I noticed that a few drivers I casually see were no longer coming around lately it sucks that amazon does that. Shouldn't weed out the ones that put in work and know how to proceed with anything that hits them. Now they have to start all over with a batch and confusion and chaos begins again.


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## Bygosh (Oct 9, 2016)

That email is disheartening. Up until now they gave people a specific reason but that email just says "you are fired."


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

Was terminated for late/missing 4 blocks in two weeks. Blaming it on the app. Amazon doesn't really care.


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## Bygosh (Oct 9, 2016)

oicu812 said:


> Was terminated for late/missing 4 blocks in two weeks. Blaming it on the app. Amazon doesn't really care.


That's a pretty good reason for termination.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

Bygosh said:


> That's a pretty good reason for termination.


That's a clear violation of the terms of service. One can missed/late for 4 blocks just not over a short period of time.


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## rozz (Sep 7, 2016)

4 is excessive. Should've asked others how to clear out of previous block before starting next one.


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## mrbrown2645 (Apr 7, 2018)

Yup I in fact do blame it on the app that is known to have malfunctions almost weekly. In this month of May went through over 5 updates involuntarily. I've been doing back to back blocks since I started back in 2017, had no problems continuing to the next block even if they were in different cities before then.
Whenever it malfunctions, I reset everything until the problem is cleared, after finishing a block/route, press I've arrived at station, or The I'm at the address but my gps is not working, press the home tab when the time is up, sign out and sign in, clearing caches and storage, uninstall and reinstall app, restart my phone, but those methods were not working I did every trick I can think of. The app was so stubborn to stick with previous block info I could not at all check in to the next block even hours after the other block on two of those situations. I let support know about the situation while it happens, they addressed the all situations and sent a payment adjustment to my earnings and also mention that it would not reflect on my record supposedly. I'm not the only person this happened to.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

If the app is malfunctioning for you weekly, then the problem lies with your phone.

Support aren't the final say whether something will or will not appear on your record. They can make payment adjustments and some other minor stuff, but overall useless for everything else.


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## cvflexer (Apr 27, 2017)

oicu812 said:


> If the app is malfunctioning for you weekly, then the problem lies with your phone.


Always have a backup phone


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

Always have a backup gig...


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## cvflexer (Apr 27, 2017)

dkcs said:


> Always have a backup gig...


This IS the backup gig. Even if you do 30+ per week, this should be your backup, not your career.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Wrong. If you're doing 30+ hrs/week, you should be working FULL TIME with benefits. With a backup gig being a secure job like doing scheduled pax driving (for private companies like Chariot), or working for a white van contractor that you could work on the side. Or go the traditional one on PT basis like UPS, PT weekend courier driver for USPS etc etc.

Anything that would give you a reliable paycheck. Not another unreliable gig economy job like Doordash/Postmates etc. or like driving fUber with a backup Gryft.


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## FIdel Cashflow (Feb 23, 2018)

Amazon is catching everyone who has been cheating to get blocks. They figured it out and caught all of you. Your account was red flagged and they looked into your history.

They are getting smarter and want specific drives to do certain routes so all the cheating to get blocks won’t be tolerated anymore since it’s starting to impact routes.

For example - a noob who sucks at delivering is cheating to get blocks and ends up getting a hard route that should of gone to an experienced higher tier driver. That noob can’t complete the route on time or can’t find an apt etc etc..and ends up returning items to the station or has dis satisfied customers and worst case costs amazon money because they have to comp a customers order.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Where's your proof on that? Mind sharing the memo? Inquiring minds of us non cheating scripters/bots need to know!

IMO Amazon is being ..... Amazon. On steroids this time around. Looks like they hired a whole bunch of IT geeks who've got absolutely no clue of the traffic patterns/logistics in the field. Clueless entry level software personnel who've yet to travel outside the boundaries of their work cubicle/parent's residence safe spaces. Let alone leave the boundaries of their city or state.

It's no wonder ppl's routes are so damned FUBAR.


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## kmatt (Apr 25, 2016)

It was said by Amazon that they expect at least a 98 percent successful delivery rating for drivers. You didn't meet this criteria. Simple as that.


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

Unfortunately, I've met way to many individuals that rely on these gig jobs for full time employment.


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## mrbrown2645 (Apr 7, 2018)

97 percent overall meaning over the course of those 7 months and thousands of deliveries. I'm really sure no one has a perfect record, I do fresh, I've had customers send me to another house (put in different address on order) as a surprise for their friend or family member, some which contained alcohol which requires ID scan but they were not home, thus return package which equals a problem on your record, which is unfair. 


Even though I tap really fast for minutes at a time to get blocks, never received a warning about using outside service or whatever to grab blocks, that recently been going on for the past few weeks.


You can achieve 30hrs+ by doing a couple hours after work and doing almost 20 over the weekend.


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## ndigoboy (Mar 24, 2018)

You answered your own question. Amazon does not want below average on time delivery completion. 98% is what they are after. If you trend below that you will get let go, assuming a manager doesn't put a ticket in for you to be excused for the package you had an unusual problem with. This isn't just for flex drivers either. If you work directly for Amazon and are on time less than 98% of the time you will no longer be able to clock in. The managers don't fire you, an algorithm does.


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## uberstuper (Jan 2, 2016)

Cynergie said:


> Wrong. If you're doing 30+ hrs/week, you should be working FULL TIME with benefits. With a backup gig being a secure job like doing scheduled pax driving (for private companies like Chariot), or working for a white van contractor that you could work on the side. Or go the traditional one on PT basis like UPS, PT weekend courier driver for USPS etc etc.
> 
> Anything that would give you a reliable paycheck. Not another unreliable gig economy job like Doordash/Postmates etc. or like driving fUber with a backup Gryft.


No such thing as a reliable paycheck! You're always vulnerable for any employer in any position



FIdel Cashflow said:


> Amazon is catching everyone who has been cheating to get blocks. They figured it out and caught all of you. Your account was red flagged and they looked into your history.
> 
> They are getting smarter and want specific drives to do certain routes so all the cheating to get blocks won't be tolerated anymore since it's starting to impact routes.
> 
> For example - a noob who sucks at delivering is cheating to get blocks and ends up getting a hard route that should of gone to an experienced higher tier driver. That noob can't complete the route on time or can't find an apt etc etc..and ends up returning items to the station or has dis satisfied customers and worst case costs amazon money because they have to comp a customers order.


What is this fairly tale that your making up?


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## FIdel Cashflow (Feb 23, 2018)

uberstuper said:


> No such thing as a reliable paycheck! You're always vulnerable for any employer in any position
> 
> What is this fairly tale that your making up?


Ok. Keep thinking Amazon doesn't know what your doing with cheating etc...

Changes are coming. They are a massive company with an unlimited bankroll and thus far have been improving the flex program on the fly in real time. Paying out a ton of money to drivers while working out the kinks on how to be more efficient etc etc. but it's not going to stay the same forever.

They changed the fresh bags to save money. They changed the prime labels making them smaller to save money. If they are that particular over 1/16ths of an inch to be more profitable how do you think they view us.

Up to this point they have allowed drivers to cheat being well aware of what's going on.


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## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

FIdel Cashflow said:


> thus far have been improving the flex program on the fly in real time.


lol how long have you been doing this? surely it can't be very long because i've seen Amazon run this shit into the ground - at least in my region.

Every _single _Prime Now order i've placed in the last few months has been late, has been damaged, has been missing items, has been delivered to the incorrect address.


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## FIdel Cashflow (Feb 23, 2018)

soupergloo said:


> lol how long have you been doing this? surely it can't be very long because i've seen Amazon run this shit into the ground - at least in my region.
> 
> Every _single _Prime Now order i've placed in the last few months has been late, has been damaged, has been missing items, has been delivered to the incorrect address.


 I've been doing This for 1yr full time. It used to be ghetto in the beginning but the changes are happening all the time. They will Improve in your area too.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

FIdel Cashflow said:


> I've been doing This for 1yr full time.


LOL


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## kmatt (Apr 25, 2016)

FIdel Cashflow said:


> I've been doing This for 1yr full time.


Double lol


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## FIdel Cashflow (Feb 23, 2018)

oicu812 said:


> LOL


???


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## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

FIdel Cashflow said:


> ???


haha I also don't get all the "lol"ing, but whatevs


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## mrbrown2645 (Apr 7, 2018)

How does that answer my question?
97 percent overall includes all weekly summaries average since Oct 2017 yes I did the math. I say thats pretty good. If it weren't for those "I'll surprise my sister with this champagne I'll have deliver to her" without telling her to wait home during a certain time period. Which by the way I did call support and email about each situation.
Other then that I got 100% every week.
Also that 98% margin does not make any sense, if that was the case more than 70% of the new people coming on broad would be gone within the first week.


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## rozz (Sep 7, 2016)

soupergloo said:


> lol how long have you been doing this? surely it can't be very long because i've seen Amazon run this shit into the ground - at least in my region.
> 
> Every _single _Prime Now order i've placed in the last few months has been late, has been damaged, has been missing items, has been delivered to the incorrect address.


Or not delivered at all in my case.



FIdel Cashflow said:


> I've been doing This for 1yr full time. It used to be ghetto in the beginning but the changes are happening all the time. They will Improve in your area too.


It was classy (lol) before. Now it's pure trash. There's a reason they want everything left at the door now. They don't want customers to see or interact with trash.



mrbrown2645 said:


> How does that answer my question?
> 97 percent overall includes all weekly summaries average since Oct 2017 yes I did the math. I say thats pretty good. If it weren't for those "I'll surprise my sister with this champagne I'll have deliver to her" without telling her to wait home during a certain time period. Which by the way I did call support and email about each situation.
> Other then that I got 100% every week.
> Also that 98% margin does not make any sense, if that was the case more than 70% of the new people coming on broad would be gone within the first week.


Mr. Brown, most people here do not consider 97% to be good in our Prime world. Your standards are obviously too low.

The absolute lowest retention rate is 95%, sans extraordinary circumstances. Even at 97%, you are in the 3% bottom percentile.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

mrbrown2645 said:


> Also that 98% margin does not make any sense, if that was the case more than 70% of the new people coming on broad would be gone within the first week.


New people are given a grace period. I would guess that it's 40 blocks or less. Logistics van drivers also have a grace period but probably much shorter than for flex. Their dispatchers will tell the drivers how they are performing relative to Amazon's baseline. If those van drivers are below the baseline, they are given a short amount of time to improve or they are also purged. Usually it doesn't come to that as DSPs will have drivers help each other out (by rescuing) thus improving the DSPs overall metrics. I've personally only seen drivers getting fired for too many accidents & no call/no shows and not for being below the baseline.


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## ndigoboy (Mar 24, 2018)

mrbrown2645 said:


> How does that answer my question?
> 97 percent overall includes all weekly summaries average since Oct 2017 yes I did the math. I say thats pretty good. If it weren't for those "I'll surprise my sister with this champagne I'll have deliver to her" without telling her to wait home during a certain time period. Which by the way I did call support and email about each situation.
> Other then that I got 100% every week.
> Also that 98% margin does not make any sense, if that was the case more than 70% of the new people coming on broad would be gone within the first week.


97% and below is what Amazon considers the red. It is not good to them. Youll only skate by with 97% or below if there was something to cause it on their end and it affected numerous people. They want 'the best'. New drivers get a grace period for an extended margin of error. It's not huge but its there. You admittedly aren't new.

They have entire meetings dedicated to this stuff. Right now they are focusing on the white vans at my center because their data shows that the first 2-3 hours of their projected 10 hour shift , they are slow. It's a problem f they aren't back by 5 their undeliverable a can't reliably be sent out again. Can you guess what the magic delivery percentage that caused this was? 97%


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

FIdel Cashflow said:


> Ok. Keep thinking Amazon doesn't know what your doing with cheating etc...


It's not that they do know what we're doing. It's that they simply don't care. Or at least until said gaming of their system becomes disruptive to their operations.


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## uberstuper (Jan 2, 2016)

ndigoboy said:


> They have entire meetings dedicated to this stuff.


You make it sound like you're part of these meetings? You sound very definitive in your knowing ..why is that ?


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## ndigoboy (Mar 24, 2018)

Got tired of dealing with unpredictability of the receiving end of amazon so I jumped to the other side. For now.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

uberstuper said:


> You make it sound like you're part of these meetings? You sound very definitive in your knowing ..why is that ?


Working for a DSP, you will learn quite a bit of behind the scene stuff. The senior dispatchers are directly involved in the meetings. Some of that information will be passed along to the drivers since it affects them directly.


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## Side Hustle (Mar 2, 2017)

FIdel Cashflow said:


> Amazon is catching everyone who has been cheating to get blocks. They figured it out and caught all of you. Your account was red flagged and they looked into your history.
> 
> They are getting smarter and want specific drives to do certain routes so all the cheating to get blocks won't be tolerated anymore since it's starting to impact routes.
> 
> For example - a noob who sucks at delivering is cheating to get blocks and ends up getting a hard route that should of gone to an experienced higher tier driver. That noob can't complete the route on time or can't find an apt etc etc..and ends up returning items to the station or has dis satisfied customers and worst case costs amazon money because they have to comp a customers order.


How far up into your behind did you have to reach to pull this "theory" out?


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Amazon is manure hole operation. Amazon is even worse to the people who work in the warehouse to fill orders, the turn over rate is astronomical. Jeff Bezos is a POS, he exploits his employees, contractors, the public through his newspaper the Washington Post and the postal service with lowball rates.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

You been _Chandrakanth'd!_


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

crap, I was hoping this was Houston and maybe they would call me to fill the void. I have been trying to years to get signed up with Flex so I could give up the Uber BS but I have no had any luck.


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## Hand of God 137 (Apr 17, 2018)

Bygosh said:


> That email is disheartening. Up until now they gave people a specific reason but that email just says "you are fired."


Amazon/Bezos = ZORG


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

dkcs said:


> Unfortunately, I've met way to many individuals that rely on these gig jobs for full time employment.


You should fill them in on companies that offer high paying career jobs & hiring immediately.


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## jade88 (Oct 6, 2016)

97% is bad? Hahahaha. I’ve had 73% thanks to restaurants and didn’t get deactivated. Recently I was at 90% for a few weeks again thanks to Restaurants, didn’t get deactivated. He got deactivated because he couldn’t check into his blocks. Plain and simple. When my score was low again recently, I avoided Restaurants to get it back up. You have to stop doing blocks if issues come up till you get your situation fixed. Otherwise you will get axed.

Right now I’m 100% across the board, thank God.

Also to OP, tell them what happened in your appeal with the problems you had with the app. And no support cannot get rid of any marks against you. You have to email off road support for that. You should have been keeping an eye on your weekly summary.


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## ndigoboy (Mar 24, 2018)

jade88 said:


> 97% is bad? Hahahaha. I've had 73% thanks to restaurants and didn't get deactivated. Recently I was at 90% for a few weeks again thanks to Restaurants, didn't get deactivated. He got deactivated because he couldn't check into his blocks. Plain and simple. When my score was low again recently, I avoided Restaurants to get it back up. You have to stop doing blocks if issues come up till you get your situation fixed. Otherwise you will get axed.
> 
> Right now I'm 100% across the board, thank God.


All that means is your issues were ticketed to not hold you accountable for those instances. Thank your shift assistant or operations manager next time you see them.


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## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

I was wondering where all the Amazon packages have gone that were addressed to me...!


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## jade88 (Oct 6, 2016)

ndigoboy said:


> All that means is your issues were ticketed to not hold you accountable for those instances. Thank your shift assistant or operations manager next time you see them.


Operations manager? These were lates from restaurant blocks lol.

Just an FYI, missed blocks are counted much, much more than lates.


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## mrbrown2645 (Apr 7, 2018)

If you saw the email I've sent to appeal, you would think it was a college project with number crunching, times and dates, several paragraphs and screen shots of every incident that occurred a couple weeks prior to that email. They recently just sent another email saying that they were not going to reinstate me still without a reason not a made up one, but I'll disregard that email until the I received a human written email stating so.
I do believe that company does purge, because I knew several of drivers who I meet up on the daily basis were also no longer around, people with 100% saying they got hit with that email. Several new drivers started popping up as well. 
That 98% is ridiculous, some of you can't really wrap your head around about my 97% average is overall. I didn't just do prime now, I also did fresh and restaurant majority of the time.


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## Hand of God 137 (Apr 17, 2018)

mrbrown2645 said:


> If you saw the email I've sent to appeal, you would think it was a college project with number crunching, times and dates, several paragraphs and screen shots of every incident that occurred a couple weeks prior to that email. They recently just sent another email saying that they were not going to reinstate me still without a reason not a made up one, but I'll disregard that email until the I received a human written email stating so.
> I do believe that company does purge, because I knew several of drivers who I meet up on the daily basis were also no longer around, people with 100% saying they got hit with that email. Several new drivers started popping up as well.
> That 98% is ridiculous, some of you can't really wrap your head around about my 97% average is overall. I didn't just do prime now, I also did fresh and restaurant majority of the time.


God it sounds so stressful. I feel bad for you guys.

Over here we do this job because it is so easy and stress free.


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## Dreadth (Jul 4, 2016)

I received the email today for termination with an overall rating of 100% and a 99% delivery success rate. Before anybody asks, I have proof from my recent weekly summary as of June 1. I submitted the appeal process email and also replied from the termination email. Recieved the basic robot response that the appeal process was denied. Now, I'm not gonna give up. I'm gonna keep sending emails but does anybody know about the arbitration process?


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## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

Dreadth said:


> I'm gonna keep sending emails but does anybody know about the arbitration process?


I actually hired & paid an attorney to go to arbitration with Amazon. After a while, my attorney advised against it because Amazon's contract does not specify they are required to give us a certain amount of work for a certain amount of time. You can still proceed with arbitration, but even if you prove you were wrongfully terminated, they are not *obligated *to reinstate the account.

If you still want to proceed, I'd recommend just hiring someone from JAMS as it will be the cheapest option for you, but don't expect much from it. I'd only proceed with arbitration at this point if Amazon owed you money, which i'm sure is the case for a lot of people, but not ones that are brave enough to stand up to Amazon.


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

[email protected]

This sends your email to escalations. Don't expect a miracle though. It's very rare for Amazon to reverse itself.


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## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

dkcs said:


> [email protected]
> 
> This sends your email to escalations. Don't expect a miracle though. It's very rare for Amazon to reverse itself.


I feel like about 50% of the people deactivated last year were able to get their account reinstated, but lately (even when Amazon is _clearly_ in the wrong), it's impossible. The last person I know that was actually able to get reinstated happened in Dec. 2017 and it was for late forfiets/missed blocks, but she was able to get it back after a months worth of effort. Haven't heard any other success stories since ...


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## Dreadth (Jul 4, 2016)

soupergloo said:


> I actually hired & paid an attorney to go to arbitration with Amazon. After a while, my attorney advised against it because Amazon's contract does not specify they are required to give us a certain amount of work for a certain amount of time. You can still proceed with arbitration, but even if you prove you were wrongfully terminated, they are not *obligated *to reinstate the account.
> 
> If you still want to proceed, I'd recommend just hiring someone from JAMS as it will be the cheapest option for you, but don't expect much from it. I'd only proceed with arbitration at this point if Amazon owed you money, which i'm sure is the case for a lot of people, but not ones that are brave enough to stand up to Amazon.


Thank you for response. Who are JAMS? I understand they are not obligated to give us hours or work but wrongfully terminated for losing packages with a success rate of 99%? That's shady because I know of a driver with a low score of 85% and he still working.



dkcs said:


> [email protected]
> 
> This sends your email to escalations. Don't expect a miracle though. It's very rare for Amazon to reverse itself.


I did this as well. I sent back from termination letter and CC Jeff.


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## cvflexer (Apr 27, 2017)

Dreadth said:


> Thank you for response. Who are JAMS? I understand they are not obligated to give us hours or work but wrongfully terminated for losing packages with a success rate of 99%? That's shady because I know of a driver with a low score of 85% and he still working.


You had 4 MISSING PACKAGES!!!! That and missing blocks is the easiest way to get deactivated.


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## Dreadth (Jul 4, 2016)

soupergloo said:


> I feel like about 50% of the people deactivated last year were able to get their account reinstated, but lately (even when Amazon is _clearly_ in the wrong), it's impossible. The last person I know that was actually able to get reinstated happened in Dec. 2017 and it was for late forfiets/missed blocks, but she was able to get it back after a months worth of effort. Haven't heard any other success stories since ...


I feel the only ones winning are the ones cheating the system lol



cvflexer said:


> You had 4 MISSING PACKAGES!!!! That and missing blocks is the easiest way to get deactivated.


4 missing packages in about 500 packages? I have never missed a block.


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## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

Dreadth said:


> Thank you for response. Who are JAMS? I understand they are not obligated to give us hours or work but wrongfully terminated for losing packages with a success rate of 99%? That's shady because I know of a driver with a low score of 85% and he still working.


JAMS is a mediation & arbitration service you can hire. You technically weren't "terminated" because you weren't an employee, but I know what you mean. Unfortunately, you don't have the same rights as you would if you were an employee.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

cvflexer said:


> You had 4 MISSING PACKAGES!!!! That and missing blocks is the easiest way to get deactivated.


It's obvious he didn't think the 4 dnrs were important other than his 99% rating.


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## ndigoboy (Mar 24, 2018)

jade88 said:


> Operations manager? These were lates from restaurant blocks lol.
> 
> Just an FYI, missed blocks are counted much, much more than lates.


Oh, you don't have a center to go to then? Just be aware that there are humans are involved with a lots of the blocks.


Dreadth said:


> I received the email today for termination with an overall rating of 100% and a 99% delivery success rate. Before anybody asks, I have proof from my recent weekly summary as of June 1. I submitted the appeal process email and also replied from the termination email. Recieved the basic robot response that the appeal process was denied. Now, I'm not gonna give up. I'm gonna keep sending emails but does anybody know about the arbitration process?


I looked at your attachment and I see you drew the magic number 4 on your DNR. They let 3 slide but the fourth one is the killer. It sucks that some porch pirates screwed you over man.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Dreadth said:


> ...I feel the only ones winning are the ones cheating the system,...
> .


+ 9 Hundred Million.

Why is anyone buying anything off Amazon. Oh right the buyers are as clueless and could careless as a Uber / Lyft rider.


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