# "Service Dogs" - You never win with Uber or Lyft on the subject if you deny the ride.



## RogerKohrman (Sep 1, 2017)

It's a huge national problem.

The "Service Dog" fiasco is a growing problem in restaurants, hotels, property management and ride share and is even more problematic with people trying to argue for Emotional Support Animals to have the same protected status.

Has anyone considered simply making your vehicle a place that a dog does not want to be? There are "electronic fences" designed to act as a barrier a dog will not cross as well as high frequency devices that emit a sound that is not harmful but causes dogs to prefer to be distant from the sound. Mailmen have used them for years.

People love their dogs and if Fluffy chooses to not want to be in your car because it is unpleasant to be close you that's on Fluffy right?

After having to shut off the app and pull over twice now to vacuum up the dog hair I've been looking at options and came across this. Small enough to carry in a pocket or on a key chain.... Push the button as you pull up and see a dog with your passenger.... Dog makes a fuss not wanting to get in... Grin and say... "_Sorry... dogs don't like me for some reason..... someone said it was my deodorant". 
_
passenger cancels..... end of problem....

any thoughts?


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## FTLIMITED (Oct 19, 2017)

Would you do that for a legit 'Service Dog' for the blind?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

RogerKohrman said:


> It's a huge national problem.
> 
> The "Service Dog" fiasco is a growing problem in restaurants, hotels, property management and ride share and is even more problematic with people trying to argue for Emotional Support Animals to have the same protected status.
> 
> ...


A service dog that was formally trained would push past that to do its job. Prolonged exposure 2 something of the nature that you're describing could cause damage to the dog's ear drum. Do you really want to deal with that legal hassle? Do you really want to be an animal abuser? Do you really want to be responsible for further disabling a disabled person who had found a way to be self-sufficient? Are you really _that_ "jerk"?


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## sidemouse (Apr 2, 2017)

RogerKohrman said:


> It's a huge national problem.
> 
> After having to shut off the app and pull over twice now to vacuum up the dog hair I've been looking at options and came across this. Small enough to carry in a pocket or on a key chain.... Push the button as you pull up and see a dog with your passenger.... Dog makes a fuss not wanting to get in... Grin and say... *"*_*Sorry... dogs don't like me for some reason..... someone said it was my deodorant". *
> _
> ...


The problem comes when a pax sees through the shenanigan, that bold part there is pretty thinly veiled. I would have seen right through that and once corporate finds out... One or two phone calls, you explain whatever you like, one maybe two more complaints and you're done as far as they're concerned. So you're going to have to refine the method considerably if that's how you want to play this, slick sly guy methods are not likely to work out well in the long term.

The real problem again is cancellations.
Dog or not, food or not, the corporate entity doesn't care about what the drivers like or dislike.
All they care about is that their customer, the pax, gets a ride with the first available driver.

Make no mistake Uber considers the pax to be their customer, and they will leap hurdles to protect what they consider their best interest.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

sidemouse said:


> Your problem comes when a pax sees through your shenanigan, that bold part there is pretty thinly veiled. I would have seen right through that and once corporate finds out... One or two phone calls, you explain whatever you like, one maybe two more complaints and you're done as far as they're concerned. So you're going to have to refine the method considerably if that's how you want to play this, slick sly guy methods are not likely to work out well for you in the long term.
> 
> The real problem again is cancellations.
> Dog or not, food or not, the corporate entity doesn't care about what the drivers like or dislike.
> ...


Which is, in all reality, what any company that is in business and wants to remain in business, should be doing.

Everyone gets so upset that Uber sides with the passengers over the drivers, at least until evidence proves otherwise. That is the nature of business. The only time it is not the nature of business is when the boss knows the employee involved. They have an idea of that employees character and personality and can tell when a customer is lying about that employee. Uber doesn't know any of us. We are numbers in the algorithm.

It's not anything personal, and shouldn't be taken that way. It can make things frustrating from time to time, but personally, I like that I don't have to worry about the office politics.


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## AuxCordBoston (Dec 3, 2016)

All dogs are welcome in my car


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

RogerKohrman said:


> It's a huge national problem.
> 
> The "Service Dog" fiasco is a growing problem in restaurants, hotels, property management and ride share and is even more problematic with people trying to argue for Emotional Support Animals to have the same protected status.
> 
> ...


If you don't want a dog in your car, just man up and tell them no. End of problem.

Are you going to injure an innocent animal just because you don't have the backbone to stand up to their owner?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I can't understand this hate relationship some people have with dogs.

So you spend a couple extra minutes with the vacuum at the car wash. You are vacuuming on a daily basis, aren't you?


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

RogerKohrman said:


> It's a huge national problem.
> 
> The "Service Dog" fiasco is a growing problem in restaurants, hotels, property management and ride share and is even more problematic with people trying to argue for Emotional Support Animals to have the same protected status.
> 
> ...


You're kidding right?


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## 105398 (Aug 28, 2016)

Uh it would probably just cause more commotion and chaos once the dog is in the car - a dog freaking out and tearing up your interior. I don't like taking dogs, but I understand I have to - even when people lie about it. There's nothing I can do.

I keep a big back seat fitted dog blanket (that attaches to the headrests and completely covers the back seat), so dog can't damage the leather or get it dirty. Pax rides in front. When not in use it lays flat in the cargo area to put suitcases on, keeping the interior clean as well.

It's a workable solution, and pax are happy I'm prepared.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

RogerKohrman said:


> It's a huge national problem.


4k rides I've had 2 service animals and 4 or 5 per dogs. Of the 4 or 5, only one assumed it was okay just put the dog in my car, I addressed this with the owner.

Of the 2 service animals, one called ahead and asked if it was okay if she brought a dog. She didn't tell me it was a service animal. She told me she didn't like to play that card, if the driver did not want a dog in the car, she would respect that and cancel.

I hardly think this is a huge problem.



RogerKohrman said:


> passenger cancels..... end of problem....
> 
> any thoughts


No, I think you are the problem.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

sidemouse said:


> The real problem again is cancellations.
> Dog or not, food or not, the corporate entity doesn't care about what the drivers like or dislike.
> All they care about is that their customer, the pax, gets a ride with the first available driver.


This statement is 100% correct.

I have had 3 pax complain about not wanting to be recorded on my dash cam. They didn't complain to me, they waited until after the ride and complained to Lyft. Lyft then sends me an email reminding me to follow all local regs. The 3rd email they threatened that if I get another complaint about my dashcam I am done. Emails to them have been stonewalled, another department said there's no policy against dashcam. But none of that matters.

Pax complaints = remove the driver. Does not matter if it relates to a dog or food or hygiene or slow driving or whatever. Complaints get people fired, right or wrong.


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## Drivincrazy (Feb 14, 2016)

5K+ rides...3 dog rides...all 3...no problem...in fact, not one of them said as much as one word, or...bark, etc. The dogs enjoy going for a ride and are on their best behavior.


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## grabby (Nov 5, 2017)

Mista T said:


> This statement is 100% correct.
> 
> I have had 3 pax complain about not wanting to be recorded on my dash cam. They didn't complain to me, they waited until after the ride and complained to Lyft. Lyft then sends me an email reminding me to follow all local regs. The 3rd email they threatened that if I get another complaint about my dashcam I am done. Emails to them have been stonewalled, another department said there's no policy against dashcam. But none of that matters.
> 
> Pax complaints = remove the driver. Does not matter if it relates to a dog or food or hygiene or slow driving or whatever. Complaints get people fired, right or wrong.


Tell the PAX the camera is just for looks to scare attackers, like those fake signs people put at their houses.


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## RynoHawk (Mar 15, 2017)

grabby said:


> Tell the PAX the camera is just for looks to scare attackers, like those fake signs people put at their houses.


I would say it is recording and they can continue the ride and not worry about it or find another Uber.

As for the OP it's true you never "win" when refusing someone who says they have a service animal, so you might as well just take it. You accepted the policy or you wouldn't be active. This is true in hotels as well. We cannot prove the animal is not a service animal if the owners say it is. Only thing you can do is if the animal causes any damage or mess (shedding doesn't count), you can charge a cleaning or damage fee. Common mess or damage would include a bio accident (puke, poop, etc.) and chewing or scratching damage. Service animals and their owners are still responsible for damage they cause.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

I will take all dogs, fakers or not. The real service dogs and the passengers that call in advance to say they have a dog will be welcomed. The fake service dogs from people who just assume that I have to take them will be charged a cleaning fee. Somehow, fake service dogs always seem to poop in my car according to Uber. And their "poop" tastes like a Hershey bar. 
Bring on the fakers! I want my bonus fee for calling them out. Perhaps they'll stop bringing their dogs after being charged for cleaning


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

RynoHawk said:


> I would say it is recording and they can continue the ride and not worry


That would be ideal but the pax who complain don't complain to ME. They just quietly take a ride then I get an email the next day along with a 1 star. This has happened about one in 1,500 rides, never know where or when it happens. Very frustrating.


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## RynoHawk (Mar 15, 2017)

Mista T said:


> That would be ideal but the pax who complain don't complain to ME. They just quietly take a ride then I get an email the next day along with a 1 star. This has happened about one in 1,500 rides, never know where or when it happens. Very frustrating.


Yes, I meant only if brought up. It has not been brought up to me by either a passenger, Uber, or Lyft. However, it's not their car nor are they driving it so I'll keep doing what I do.


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## RogerKohrman (Sep 1, 2017)

I don't have a problem with dogs. I have one I would let ride with me if it was allowed as he accompanies me on my daily business regularly.

What I have a problem with are dogs that are NOT trained as a Service animal that are overly active in cars, nails that scratch leather, shedding and smells. Having to pull over and and vacuum and deal with odors during a busy time can cost money and opportunity. Not doing so can lead to a bad rating or complaint from the next passenger when they smell "YOUR" dog or they end up with dog hair all over them.

I am sure that Uber and Lyft are just as quick to condemn a driver for complaints about the cleanliness of his ride wouldn't you agree?


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## Swerves (Nov 16, 2017)

Worst clean-up I've had to do, and it took days to get that smell out of my car, was caused by two human females who layer dollar-store grease over their already nasty, unwashed, knock-off Remy hair and then lean their heads back on my seats. 

I would drive dogs full-time if I could. I can't stand a ***** to look me in the eye and tell me her obsessively compulsed Shih Tzu is a service dog, you ain't got to lie to me, I don't discriminate, the dog's welcome.


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## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

nickd8775 said:


> I will take all dogs, fakers or not. The real service dogs and the passengers that call in advance to say they have a dog will be welcomed. The fake service dogs from people who just assume that I have to take them will be charged a cleaning fee. Somehow, fake service dogs always seem to poop in my car according to Uber. And their "poop" tastes like a Hershey bar.
> Bring on the fakers! I want my bonus fee for calling them out. Perhaps they'll stop bringing their dogs after being charged for cleaning


I have a Psychological Service Dog. Not all disabilities are visible. I hope you are basing your 'fake service dog' call outs on the dogs grossly inappropriate behavior, and not your own personal 'medical opinion' on what you 'perceive' to be a disability. You do not have the proper medical training, or legal authority to be making such determinations. If you did you wouldn't be driving for uber, no offense. Not all service dog owners are supper nice and willing to roll over and have their rights trampled upon. Some of us just want to get from point a to b, or buy a ****ing sandwich, without being constantly interrogated, evaluated, and intimidated.

Someone tries to pull that fake cleaning charge bs on me I'll fight it, tooth and nail. My dog doesn't make messes. (except very rare occasions, a few times a decade tops that are my fault and he occasionally gets sick, but then I also do my best to clean up after him myself, and would pay any related fees uncontested.) I see improperly trained employees as the employers fault. I report violations of my rights to managers, corporate, then department of justice. I also badmouth companies that are bad about this issue, like walmart!!!!!, subway (service dogs welcome! signs on all their doors, yet no training for their employees on the issue) and Wendys (had a manager!! literally SCREAMING at me and chasing me around waving his hands over his head trying to intimidate me, extremely inappropriate), and the Veterans Administration( who tries to claim exemption from the ada as a federal agency and leads the charge on clamping down on service dog rights, for reasons of budgets, and the profits of partner seeing eye dog companies, and using their own ineptitude as an excuse as why service dogs 'don't work')

Keeping in mind, that here in portland a KKK member trained his (I think doberman, or mastif?) to attack blacks on command. He brought it into a VA hospital claiming it as a service dog. A black veteran entered the elevator with him, and was predictably attacked by the dog. VA is now leading the charge on self-trained dogs being clamped down on, because they refuse to help vets train their own dogs, or obtain trained ones, and one 'faker' who was a racist KKK member and trained his dog to attack others ruined it for everyone. P.s. service dogs can NOT be trained to be aggressive/protective. You can not use 'it makes me feel safe' as an excuse to train your service dog to attack people.

So believe me, I understand how hard this situation is. it is hard on all of us. Problem is, their are not nearly enough service dog organizations and service dogs to go around. It all works on donations, and the dogs are expensive to train professionally. Self trained dogs are a thing and will be until the supply issue is fixed.

Their is no certification standards. All the service dog orgs train to their own standards which they make and agree to with each other. All above and beyond what the law requires to protect the image and success of their industry. I train my dog above and beyond what the law requires, and even listen to the 'made up laws' that some businesses pass off as policies per 'reasonable accommodations' even if they sometimes to get absurd (I'm looking at you safeway, who will send a manager to yell at me for setting down my dog, on top of my own provided towel barrier for sanitary reasons in the spot where babies with dirty diapers sit, for 4 seconds while I lift up a heavy ass case of water, because it is 'unsanitary', every single ****ing time, which is now why I now go to target who are not anal assholes)

I wish more people would try to look at this issue from the perspective of the service dog owners. Imagine having the tricks done against you constantly, having a disability that could strike you at any time, but especially at times of stress (like being interrogated about a service dog) and everyone being convinced your legit well behaved service dog with thousands of hours of training at considerable expense was a fake, and constantly having to prove otherwise, just to exist in the world.

In my opinion UBER isn't doing well on this front. They are going to get reamed from both ends. DOJ and EEOC are both interested in them. I've already been advised not to worry about my star rating as a driver. If I get deactivated indirectly through ratings from passengers as an 'independent contractor' it is still a violation of federal equal opportunity laws. As a disabled veteran with PILES of paperwork to back up all my claims EEOC are eagerly awaiting my call when I get deactivated. They need slam dunk cases they can win easily to justify their ongoing budgets to congress. It's also more evidence for me to qualify for worker retraining due to disabilities preventing me from working in my current employment sector and get free college. FEDEX already got class actioned for illegally blackballing me when an independent contractor tried to hire me onto a route he owned, and that wasn't even a disability related violation. I got $0.17 from that settlement. Maybe this time I can break a dollar and get myself something off the value menu.


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## Haskel45 (Feb 9, 2017)

Sorry no animals in my car, I'm an "independent contractor" right? 

The worst that can happen is uber deactivates me, oh the horror 

MY CAR....MINE! PERIOD 

EAT A POT OF SLOW ROASTED PHALLUSES IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I can't understand this hate relationship some people have with dogs.
> 
> So you spend a couple extra minutes with the vacuum at the car wash. You are vacuuming on a daily basis, aren't you?


I don't understand it either. I have 3 towels in my trunk to cover my back seat for the very rare times when I transport a dog.



Haskel45 said:


> Sorry no animals in my car, I'm an "independent contractor" right?
> 
> The worst that can happen is uber deactivates me, oh the horror
> 
> ...


See ya!!


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Haskel45 said:


> Sorry no animals in my car, I'm an "independent contractor" right?
> 
> The worst that can happen is uber deactivates me, oh the horror
> 
> ...


No. Not the worst that can happen. There are federal and state fines, as well as the potential lawsuit from the disabled pax.

You think you have nothing now? Just wait. An unpaid judgement sits on your credit rating for 10 years AFTER it is paid off, and is subject to interest that is compounded (interest on principal AND prior unpaid interest) quarterly). It is generally considered much worse than an unpaid bill, and can prevent you from getting loans, auto insurance, and renting/leasing any number of things. If you own a home, a lien can be placed on it. If you own a business, a "till" can be set up where all incoming funds, gross, not net, will go to pay the judgement. You would still be responsible for the taxes on that money. Your bank accounts can be seized at any time to pay a judgement. If you are employed, your paychecks can be garnished. You cannot take any money paid on a judgement off your taxes or taxable income. The records of your judgement, including what it was for, will be a matter if public record for anyone that wishes to know, forever. Yes, even after it has fallen from your credit report. It is a court record, after all. It can be used, should something arise where your integrity and general "great guy-ness" ever come into question.

If you want to continue to risk all this, be my guest. You'll show yourself to be a short-sighted idiot in addition to a "jerk". Have at it.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

RogerKohrman said:


> It's a huge national problem.
> 
> The "Service Dog" fiasco is a growing problem in restaurants, hotels, property management and ride share and is even more problematic with people trying to argue for Emotional Support Animals to have the same protected status.
> 
> ...


You are EVIL.
I LIKE THAT !

Grizzly bear urine at door paremeter and ultrasonic deterrents . . . EXCELLENT.

DOG WILL GO WILD AND FIGHT ITS OWNER . . . . . JUSTICE.



SuzeCB said:


> A service dog that was formally trained would push past that to do its job. Prolonged exposure 2 something of the nature that you're describing could cause damage to the dog's ear drum. Do you really want to deal with that legal hassle? Do you really want to be an animal abuser? Do you really want to be responsible for further disabling a disabled person who had found a way to be self-sufficient? Are you really _that_ "jerk"?


In that case it will weed out FAKES.

AND SHOULD BECOME POLICY.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> You are EVIL.
> I LIKE THAT !
> 
> Grizzly bear urine at door paremeter and ultrasonic deterrents . . . EXCELLENT.
> ...


Using something like that is illegal, as it is considered interfering and distracting working service dog. Again, you're begging for legal troubles.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

sidemouse said:


> The problem comes when a pax sees through the shenanigan, that bold part there is pretty thinly veiled. I would have seen right through that and once corporate finds out... One or two phone calls, you explain whatever you like, one maybe two more complaints and you're done as far as they're concerned. So you're going to have to refine the method considerably if that's how you want to play this, slick sly guy methods are not likely to work out well in the long term.
> 
> The real problem again is cancellations.
> Dog or not, food or not, the corporate entity doesn't care about what the drivers like or dislike.
> ...


His car.
He simply wants to keep out " pests".
Ever see what a squirrel can do to car wiring ?
They eat through shifter boot or air vent to gain access to car.



Mista T said:


> This statement is 100% correct.
> 
> I have had 3 pax complain about not wanting to be recorded on my dash cam. They didn't complain to me, they waited until after the ride and complained to Lyft. Lyft then sends me an email reminding me to follow all local regs. The 3rd email they threatened that if I get another complaint about my dashcam I am done. Emails to them have been stonewalled, another department said there's no policy against dashcam. But none of that matters.
> 
> Pax complaints = remove the driver. Does not matter if it relates to a dog or food or hygiene or slow driving or whatever. Complaints get people fired, right or wrong.


UNION !



SuzeCB said:


> Using something like that is illegal, as it is considered interfering and distracting working service dog. Again, you're begging for legal troubles.


I allow dogs.
Even pets.
But dont think people should be Forced.

I also believe in FAIR PAY.


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## RogerKohrman (Sep 1, 2017)

wingdog said:


> I have a Psychological Service Dog. Not all disabilities are visible.


What service is your dog trained to provide for you?



wingdog said:


> I hope you are basing your 'fake service dog' call outs on the dogs grossly inappropriate behavior, and not your own personal 'medical opinion' on what you 'perceive' to be a disability.


I would never ask anyone about their disability. Their dog? Yes.



wingdog said:


> Not all service dog owners are supper nice and willing to roll over and have their rights trampled upon. Some of us just want to get from point a to b, or buy a &%[email protected]!*ing sandwich, without being constantly interrogated, evaluated, and intimidated.


it is interesting you get so worked up over the comments here. Many disabled people have joined the call for better determination and a form of identification to prove an animal as the problems over this mount and people with legitimate needs get sucked up in issues surrounding those that fake the designation



wingdog said:


> Keeping in mind, that here in portland a KKK member trained his (I think doberman, or mastif?) to attack blacks on command. He brought it into a VA hospital claiming it as a service dog. A black veteran entered the elevator with him, and was predictably attacked by the dog. VA is now leading the charge on self-trained dogs being clamped down on, because they refuse to help vets train their own dogs, or obtain trained ones, and one 'faker' who was a racist KKK member and trained his dog to attack others ruined it for everyone. P.s. service dogs can NOT be trained to be aggressive/protective. You can not use 'it makes me feel safe' as an excuse to train your service dog to attack people.


So you acknowledge there is a real problem surrounding the faked designation.



wingdog said:


> Their is no certification standards. All the service dog orgs train to their own standards which they make and agree to with each other. All above and beyond what the law requires to protect the image and success of their industry. I train my dog above and beyond what the law requires, and even listen to the 'made up laws' that some businesses pass off as policies per 'reasonable accommodations' even if they sometimes to get absurd (I'm looking at you safeway, who will send a manager to yell at me for setting down my dog, on top of my own provided towel barrier for sanitary reasons in the spot where babies with dirty diapers sit, for 4 seconds while I lift up a heavy ass case of water, because it is 'unsanitary', every single &%[email protected]!*ing time, which is now why I now go to target who are not anal assholes)


Why does your dog need to be on a baby changing table? That's a bit overboard in my opinion.



wingdog said:


> I wish more people would try to look at this issue from the perspective of the service dog owners. Imagine having the tricks done against you constantly, having a disability that could strike you at any time, but especially at times of stress (like being interrogated about a service dog) and everyone being convinced your legit well behaved service dog with thousands of hours of training at considerable expense was a fake, and constantly having to prove otherwise, just to exist in the world.


Honestly, how much of an inconvenience would it be to show a license or a registration from a Govt Agency in charge of regulating them?



wingdog said:


> In my opinion UBER isn't doing well on this front. They are going to get reamed from both ends. DOJ and EEOC are both interested in them. I've already been advised not to worry about my star rating as a driver.


You drive for Uber? Does your "Service Dog" accompany you?



wingdog said:


> If I get deactivated indirectly through ratings from passengers as an 'independent contractor' it is still a violation of federal equal opportunity laws. As a disabled veteran with PILES of paperwork to back up all my claims EEOC are eagerly awaiting my call when I get deactivated. They need slam dunk cases they can win easily to justify their ongoing budgets to congress. It's also more evidence for me to qualify for worker retraining due to disabilities preventing me from working in my current employment sector and get free college. FEDEX already got class actioned for illegally blackballing me when an independent contractor tried to hire me onto a route he owned, and that wasn't even a disability related violation. I got $0.17 from that settlement. Maybe this time I can break a dollar and get myself something off the value menu.


You strike me more as one of those creating the problems than by someone legitimately affected by one.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

"It worked flawlessly. 

Got a call from a single-family residence, instantly got a text about having a service animal and that they screenshotted their phone screen with my information. 

Pulled over prior to arrival, let all the air out of my front tire that would be facing the customer's house when I pulled up. Pulled up and got out of the car and started looking at the flat tire. Lady finally comes out of the house with a stupid greasy Yorkie. 

I advised her I was sorry I had to cancel, I ran over something that blew out my tire in her neighborhood, and that I would have to repair it before I can accept rides. I acted frustrated and bothered. 

She sympathized and told me that the new construction in her neighborhood has been sloppy and a lot of people are getting flats from construction material being left in the roadways by the builder.

I canceled the ride and apologized profusely. She actually gave me $5 cash for the trouble. 

I went around the corner to a grocery store parking lot and reinflated my tire in less than 5 mins with my portable tire inflator. 

I don't think Yorkies are a preferred service animal breed, but meh, looked bogus as hell.

The dog was yapping at me for the duration of the encounter."

OP I'm sorry you never got an opportunity to read my advice. It's already saved my account once. I hope this helps out other people, the portable tire inflator is awesome.

Also, it's been suggested to just take the dog and cleaning fee these people to death and 1-star them. Get your fake poop and spilled water on the seat to mimic urine, snap pics, make money.

I'm entertaining doing this instead of tire inflator. Letting the air out of the tire was too nice of me, it's time to cash out!


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> "It worked flawlessly.
> 
> Got a call from a single-family residence, instantly got a text about having a service animal and that they screenshotted their phone screen with my information.
> 
> ...


Nice troll.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

goneubering said:


> Nice troll.


My posts are intended to help DRIVERS. ShillyMcShillface


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## Haskel45 (Feb 9, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> "It worked flawlessly.
> 
> Got a call from a single-family residence, instantly got a text about having a service animal and that they screenshotted their phone screen with my information.
> 
> ...


NICE!



SuzeCB said:


> No. Not the worst that can happen. There are federal and state fines, as well as the potential lawsuit from the disabled pax.
> 
> You think you have nothing now? Just wait. An unpaid judgement sits on your credit rating for 10 years AFTER it is paid off, and is subject to interest that is compounded (interest on principal AND prior unpaid interest) quarterly). It is generally considered much worse than an unpaid bill, and can prevent you from getting loans, auto insurance, and renting/leasing any number of things. If you own a home, a lien can be placed on it. If you own a business, a "till" can be set up where all incoming funds, gross, not net, will go to pay the judgement. You would still be responsible for the taxes on that money. Your bank accounts can be seized at any time to pay a judgement. If you are employed, your paychecks can be garnished. You cannot take any money paid on a judgement off your taxes or taxable income. The records of your judgement, including what it was for, will be a matter if public record for anyone that wishes to know, forever. Yes, even after it has fallen from your credit report. It is a court record, after all. It can be used, should something arise where your integrity and general "great guy-ness" ever come into question.
> 
> If you want to continue to risk all this, be my guest. You'll show yourself to be a short-sighted idiot in addition to a "jerk". Have at it.


Sorry you wasted your time typing all this just for me to not read it.

NO ANIMALS IN MY BLASTED CAR!

Deal with it.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> My posts are intended to help DRIVERS. ShillyMcShillface


Helping drivers get deactivated because of bad advice is not really help.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

JimKE said:


> If you don't want a dog in your car, just man up and tell them no. End of problem.


As I said above in this post, there is a much simpler solution.

Just be a man. Tell them no.

*If you don't have the balls to stand up and just say no* -- and have to hide behind a fake flat tire  -- how big a loser does that make you?


----------



## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

RogerKohrman said:


> What service is your dog trained to provide for you?


I was thinking of how I was going to give you a detailed answer to your questions, but I was interupted by my service dog, telling me it was time to take my afternoon pills, at 9:00 on the dot... so i'm going to cut it much shorter than I intended and give you this link instead

http://servicedogcentral.org/content/node/77

My dog it trained to do most of those things, and a few others specific to me, but really its none of your business. I don't like your attitude, and I don't feel like being psyco analyzed by another untrained amateur. It gets old. If you cared at all you could do your own research and find out your in the wrong here but it seems like you already have mad your point of view.

now the current situation, yes it sucks. I've said that already. I am not praising the current system, only explaining it.

As to reform, yes I could support that, as long as it does not unduly oppress the disabled, which most proposals do. Their are a limited number of 'establishment organizations' training a limited number of 'certified dogs' at extreme cost (50,000 or so average) and inconvenience (often 1000+ miles travel time, room and board for several months, and follow up appointments with agencies based multiple states away)

Saying anyones who's dog is not from a select handful of organizations has no legal protection leaves many legit people like me out in the cold. never see any proposals for guidance or certification of self trained dogs, or helping to pay certified trainers for or establish any oversight of whose a reputable trainer or not.

Currently you can get your service dog trained at petco legally and properly. (you would have to bring in a bunch of paper work that described what tasks you wanted their assistance in training your dog to preform) but there is no 'certification' or paperwork or card or government oversight at the end to say if its legit or not.

It literally comes down to, does the person have a disability? Is the dog trained to assist with that disability? (besides emotional support which is specifically excluded)

Could the situation be improved? yes.. it certainly can.. can it be made worse for disabled people by clueless able bodied people who have no idea what it's like to have the disabilities or go through all the work of obtaining a properly trained dog for their specific disabilities? Hell yes, this is why every attempt at reform fails. They try to fix minor problems with the laws in ways that **** over people with disabilities with unintended consequences and we aren't having any of that, it is hard as hell just to fight for the rights we already have.


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## Shakur (Jan 8, 2017)

I don't care about your need to carry your dog like a baby, and take them everywhere you go....just don't expect me to accommodate you. Drive-by cancel yesterday, I already wanted to cancel right away because as soon as I accepted the trip the person kept calling me over and over again...like he wanted me to crash to answer his needy arse. When I got there it was him and some small arse dog and his lady friend, instant cancel...of course lyft hates cherry pick so I received a "too many cancels" warning smh.

People and this baby arse ugly dogs, straight weirdo non sense. Use your own car for that. It's not "cute" it's an animal for christ sakes. Stop kissing animals in the mouth.


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## rickasmith98 (Sep 26, 2016)

UberUber81 said:


> "It worked flawlessly.
> 
> Got a call from a single-family residence, instantly got a text about having a service animal and that they screenshotted their phone screen with my information.
> 
> ...


But this only works if they have let you know in advance. Don't think any of the 5 "service animals" I have driven, had owners that have let me know in advance...pull up and there they are. And honestly, if they are legit service animals, while I don't want dogs in my car as a general rule, can deal with the legits. It's the fake ones that get to me...and I don't believe any of the 5 that I have carried were legit. One woman had two dogs and one was a small pup maybe 16 weeks old. How can that be a service dog????


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

goneubering said:


> Helping drivers get deactivated because of bad advice is not really help.


Oh, really? Bad advice? Hey guys, I didn't take someone's stupid Yorkie, I'm still activated. Seems like good advice. You're just mad because this advice leaves the driver's clean and you want to push your own agenda. I'm here for drivers, what are you here for? lol


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> Oh, really? Bad advice? Hey guys, I didn't take someone's stupid Yorkie, I'm still activated. Seems like good advice. You're just mad because this advice leaves the driver's clean and you want to push your own agenda. I'm here for drivers, what are you here for? lol


You care about drivers?? Ha!! You're probably afraid of dogs so you go to silly extremes to break the law and then try to justify your bad advice by claiming you haven't been caught and deactivated yet.


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## RogerKohrman (Sep 1, 2017)

wingdog said:


> I was thinking of how I was going to give you a detailed answer to your questions, but I was interupted by my service dog, telling me it was time to take my afternoon pills, at 9:00 on the dot...


Sounds like he needs some additional training or a better watch. "*Afternoon* Meds at 9:00"? 9:00 qualifies as morning or night but not afternoon that I am aware of. I hope those meds are not time sensitive considering how late it was reminding you.



wingdog said:


> so i'm going to cut it much shorter than I intended and give you this link instead
> 
> http://servicedogcentral.org/content/node/77
> 
> My dog it trained to do most of those things, and a few others specific to me, but really its none of your business. I don't like your attitude, and I don't feel like being psyco analyzed by another untrained amateur. It gets old. If you cared at all you could do your own research and find out your in the wrong here but it seems like you already have mad your point of view.


How could I research what service YOUR dog was trained to do for you? You have an anonymous account on a server on the internet. It was a simple question and one you should be easily prepared to handle.



wingdog said:


> now the current situation, yes it sucks. I've said that already. I am not praising the current system, only explaining it.
> 
> As to reform, yes I could support that, as long as it does not unduly oppress the disabled, which most proposals do. Their are a limited number of 'establishment organizations' training a limited number of 'certified dogs' at extreme cost (50,000 or so average) and inconvenience (often 1000+ miles travel time, room and board for several months, and follow up appointments with agencies based multiple states away)
> 
> ...


Your way too worked up. Are you sure you don't need an Emotional Support Animal?


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

goneubering said:


> You care about drivers?? Ha!! You're probably afraid of dogs so you go to silly extremes to break the law and then try to justify your bad advice by claiming you haven't been caught and deactivated yet.


My advice keeps the driver's account activated while preserving their personal safety, and the safety of their property. So yes, I'm here for the driver's because I am a driver. You are either a terrible pax or a company shill, but continue to reply to me, it makes me happy that the thread gets bumped and more drivers get exposure to solutions instead of complying with your agenda.


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> My advice keeps the driver's account activated while preserving their personal safety, and the safety of their property. So yes, I'm here for the driver's because I am a driver. You are either a terrible pax or a company shill, but continue to reply to me, it makes me happy that the thread gets bumped and more drivers get exposure to solutions instead of complying with your agenda.


Not my agenda. I follow the law. I think all the other posters are able to recognize you for what you are. Goodbye.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

goneubering said:


> Not my agenda. I follow the law. I think all the other posters are able to recognize you for what you are. Goodbye.


I follow the law as well, can't transport a passenger safely with a flat tire!


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## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

RogerKohrman said:


> Sounds like he needs some additional training or a better watch. "*Afternoon* Meds at 9:00"? 9:00 qualifies as morning or night but not afternoon that I am aware of. I hope those meds are not time sensitive considering how late it was reminding you.
> 
> How could I research what service YOUR dog was trained to do for you? You have an anonymous account on a server on the Internet. It was a simple question and one you should be easily prepared to handle.
> 
> Your way too worked up. Are you sure you don't need an Emotional Support Animal?


It doesn't matter what time I take my pills. just that I take them once, and only once, not zero, or 3, because I forgot, or can't remember if i took them already or not. The dog does this, quite well, and is punctual also. after noon pills as opposed to the before noon pills that are different. 'morning' and 'evening' if you insist, but you are just being an asshole troll trying to antagonize in addition to giving terrible legal and moral advice.

My dog also reads emotions and communicates them to me. (1) He lets me know if someone is going to be a danger to my mental health before they have a chance to act and be a danger to me, so I can remove them from my presence. (2)He also reads my emotions, and communicates them to me, and allows me to remove myself from someone else's presence before I can be a danger to others. (note, this is him actively reading people, and communicating to me. this is NOT him providing 'emotional support' and making me 'feel good')

That is 3 of the ~dozen tasks he is trained to preform, but my disabilities don't matter. everyone is unique. By the way, if I was entering your business that is one more thing than I am required by law to tell you. I only have to pick two tasks (any two tasks) and they will be the most mundane and generic tasks possible (this is how the agencies have advised me to answer to protect my privacy) I can pick any 2 I want from the list of items I have trained my dog I wish to keep you from inquiring about my disability. my go-to is 'helps opens doors' and 'reminds me about pills', this part of the law is intentional, because personal health is private, protected by law, and you can not ask us health questions. But for the benefit of others on this board I will continue.

He also keeps me from hallucinating, having asthma attacks, and having uncontrolled muscle spams. You know, its really annoying to have that happen when you are trying to drive. I once took an 18 wheeler through the center barrier because I suddenly found myself driving a tow truck through a minefield again. It's nice that my dog is trained to watch me when I'm driving alone and don't have anyone to talk to and will nudge my hand until I come back if I ever start to zone out when driving so that I'm never even close to having that experience happen to me again.

I'm sure the dog hating public that would rather my dog stay at home can be entrusted with my life. Do you know how to respond to my attacks? I've been left to die by hospital staff that didn't know what to do. My dog is trained to help me get through it as quickly and safety as possibly AND is trained to call for help. Most humans can't do both. Some fail at doing either. My dog can also help me get back to my car if i'm disoriented, that has a red button in it that calls for help & contains medicine I may need.

psyc dogs are legit, don't be an asshole that leaves people with life threatening disabilities stranded because you think their dog might be a pet. You are not qualified to make that medical decision, and by law are not allowed to. precisely because too many people like you go on crusades and screw over people like me is why the laws are written to favor the disabled. Keep up your shitty behavior and they won't even let you ask the 2 questions any more. any changes to the law will favor the disabled. making the ADA worse for disabled vets is political suicide.


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## Yooper (Nov 16, 2017)

This sort of deception sounds like a lot of effort, why not just take the dog and be done with it


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

Yooper said:


> This sort of deception sounds like a lot of effort, why not just take the dog and be done with it


By all means, if you want to do it, then good on you. I value my life and property above a $3 ride. You won't catch me getting bit, scrubbing animal feces out of upholstery, in an accident with a live animal meat missile.


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## Yooper (Nov 16, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> By all means, if you want to do it, then good on you. I value my life and property above a $3 ride. You won't catch me getting bit, scrubbing animal feces out of upholstery, in an accident with a live animal meat missile.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

I'm sorry last time I checked live animals have the ability to produce excrement.

I guess I should believe you guys, Physics stop working when it comes to live animals in a moving vehicle. 

lol


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Judging by certain posts, it's not just live animals producing excrement.

Lyft just found it necessary to remind us of their policy regarding service animals. This is absurd. The policy is quite clear and well known. The issue should never arise.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

FTLIMITED said:


> Would you do that for a legit 'Service Dog' for the blind?


1 or 2 rpgs


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> Judging by certain posts, it's not just live animals producing excrement.
> 
> Lyft just found it necessary to remind us of their policy regarding service animals. This is absurd. The policy is quite clear and well known. The issue should never arise.


And, as usual, Lyft reiterated their policy of having a totally mushy policy with their usual babble and a heartwarming video.

Uber does much better than Lyft on service animals. It's REAL simple with Uber.

If you have ONE documented refusal of a service animal, you are permanently deactivated with no appeal.
If you have TWO _"plausible complaints,"_ you are permanently deactivated with no appeal.
THAT is a policy.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

JimKE said:


> And, as usual, Lyft reiterated their policy of having a totally mushy policy with their usual babble and a heartwarming video.
> 
> Uber does much better than Lyft on service animals. It's REAL simple with Uber.
> 
> ...


And this is why we have to #deflatetires!

Resist!


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## Yooper (Nov 16, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> I'm sorry last time I checked live animals have the ability to produce excrement. I guess I should believe you guys, Physics stop working when it comes to live animals in a moving vehicle. lol


What you doing lol, curb checks and ramps off speedbumps?


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## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

actually in my experience working customer service jobs, humans shitting on things has been a worse problem than (fake or otherwise ) service animals. Watch out for old ladies going commando in their skirts.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Yooper said:


> What you doing lol, curb checks and ramps off speedbumps?


^^^^  (careful, some folks resent critics of spelling/grammar)


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

UberUber81 said:


> And this is why we have to #deflatetires!
> 
> Resist!


Just two problems with that approach.

It's kind of cowardly to fake something instead of just confronting the situation honestly.
Eventually, some pax will complain and you'll deny it, saying you had a flat tire or some other silly fake emergency. A few months later, a second pax will complain. And you will be done.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

JimKE said:


> Just two problems with that approach.
> 
> It's kind of cowardly to fake something instead of just confronting the situation honestly.
> Eventually, some pax will complain and you'll deny it, saying you had a flat tire or some other silly fake emergency. A few months later, a second pax will complain. And you will be done.


Scammers only last so long.


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## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

Uberuber and people like him are literally the reason these policies are so strict and unfair against us drivers, And I say that as someone who has a service animal.


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## Yooper (Nov 16, 2017)

May his knife chip and shatter.


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## Steve appleby (May 30, 2015)

the reason why denying service dogs is such a big deal is because its an ADA violation. ive never had one before but ive known other drivers that have gotten deactivated for refusing service dogs.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

wingdog said:


> Uberuber and people like him are literally the reason these policies are so strict and unfair against us drivers, And I say that as someone who has a service animal.


Do you bring a crate or harness for your live animal so that if an accident occurs you and the driver aren't at risk of potential injuries from an unsecured live animal?

What about the safety of your service animal? Don't you want it to be safe if an accident occurs?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

wingdog said:


> It doesn't matter what time I take my pills. just that I take them once, and only once, not zero, or 3, because I forgot, or can't remember if i took them already or not. The dog does this, quite well, and is punctual also. after noon pills as opposed to the before noon pills that are different. 'morning' and 'evening' if you insist, but you are just being an asshole troll trying to antagonize in addition to giving terrible legal and moral advice.
> 
> My dog also reads emotions and communicates them to me. (1) He lets me know if someone is going to be a danger to my mental health before they have a chance to act and be a danger to me, so I can remove them from my presence. (2)He also reads my emotions, and communicates them to me, and allows me to remove myself from someone else's presence before I can be a danger to others. (note, this is him actively reading people, and communicating to me. this is NOT him providing 'emotional support' and making me 'feel good')
> 
> ...


Some people don't grasp the fact that many, in fact MOST, disabilities are "invisible". They think that if uou don't have a wheelchair, cane, or visible limp, you shouldn't be able to have the plate/placard to park in the handicap spot; if your dog isn't a seeing eye dog, it must not be a valid service dog.

Ignorance is curable. Willful stupidity? Not so much.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

I'm really interested in knowing if you guys with live animals bring crates or harnesses with you when you force an Uber driver to take on that risk.


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## Yooper (Nov 16, 2017)

this world is covered in countless layers of excrement. do you wear a bubble suit to protect yourself?


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## sidemouse (Apr 2, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> My advice keeps the driver's account activated while preserving their personal safety, and the safety of their property. So yes, I'm here for the driver's because I am a driver. You are either a terrible pax or a company shill, but continue to reply to me, it makes me happy that the thread gets bumped and more drivers get exposure to solutions instead of complying with your agenda.


It may have worked for you but it's still dishonest and that's where I have a problem with it. Dishonesty is easy to spot at times and all it takes is someone who can't pull off a lie, the PAX sees right through it and reports the driver for 'refusing' to take them with their service animal.

Obviously if you tell them the truth that won't really fly either since Uber basically requires it.
Yes, I get it and believe me I'm not excited that Uber drivers 'have to' accept service animals in their vehicle nor do I get some kind of kick out of it. I could personally care less because it wouldn't hurt my feelings if someone else's dog had a code brown in my car, is how far past caring I am in this regard but I am not insensitive of the situation... Nor am I insensitive to the fact that you don't have a choice, that's really the part I don't care about but ultimately it's Uber's baby and it may well be that so long you drive for them you may find you should follow their rules.

All of the above is merely opinion, it is not concrete rules, thank you.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

sidemouse said:


> ...but ultimately it's Uber's baby and it may well be that so long you drive for them you may find you should follow their rules.


It's actually NOT _Uber's_ rules.

ADA has been well-established federal law *for more than 25 years*. This is not something new; we just have some drivers who have been living under a rock their whole lives and were not aware of disability rights until Uber pointed out the issue. Uber is just advising drivers of the federal legal *requirements*, and will take the appropriate corrective action if a driver chooses to violate the law.

Prudent drivers will also check their local and state laws, because some jurisdictions have rules which are much more stringent than ADA.

Also, as I pointed out above, Uber has a fail-safe for liars.

You may get away with a lie once, but if you receive two "plausible complaints" (ever, in your entire Uber career), you will be terminated. No in-depth investigation, no muss, no fuss -- second complaint, you are gone. It really doesn't matter how experienced or skillful a liar a driver thinks they are.


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## RangerBella (Nov 29, 2017)

Haskel45 said:


> Sorry no animals in my car, I'm an "independent contractor" right?
> 
> The worst that can happen is uber deactivates me, oh the horror
> 
> ...


Well......there are people who are animal lovers......and then the rest do less significant things with their lives. Your loss.

All dogs are welcome. If I have to do alittle extra cleaning, so what. But its your ride. Do what you want with it.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

I was being nice with the deflate tire show. I'm going full bore cleaning fee. All animals are welcome in my vehicle, I now have fake feces and different color faux fur/hair I can use. Cleaning fee them and 1 star them to death until they get the idea.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Do people know what lint rollers are? You can buy one for $4 ANYWHERE and keep it in your glove compartment; pull that baby out after a dog has been in your car, roll it on the seat covered with fur (if there actually IS any) and keep driving. It takes literally 60 seconds.

I've never heard of so many people being so adverse to some dog hair. Especially when the other option is deactivation.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Julescase said:


> Do people know what lint rollers are? You can buy one for $4 ANYWHERE and keep it in your glove compartment; pull that baby out after a dog has been in your car, roll it on the seat covered with fur (if there actually IS any) and keep driving. It takes literally 60 seconds.
> 
> I've never heard of so many people being so adverse to some dog hair. Especially when the other option is deactivation.


Yes!! Lint roller and towels. It's really easy for people who think logically.


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## Julescase (Mar 29, 2017)

Mista T said:


> This statement is 100% correct.
> 
> I have had 3 pax complain about not wanting to be recorded on my dash cam. They didn't complain to me, they waited until after the ride and complained to Lyft. Lyft then sends me an email reminding me to follow all local regs. The 3rd email they threatened that if I get another complaint about my dashcam I am done. Emails to them have been stonewalled, another department said there's no policy against dashcam. But none of that matters.
> 
> Pax complaints = remove the driver. Does not matter if it relates to a dog or food or hygiene or slow driving or whatever. Complaints get people fired, right or wrong.


And I'll add that complaints = removing earnings from driver if pax claims the driver did something wrong, without speaking to the driver to get their side of the situation.

I've had money taken put of my earnings when a driver complained that I "started the ride too soon" and "drove an extra loop around the block." Same pax, two separate lies. I started the ride exactly when the ride should have started, and I didn't do any kind of loop around any block, but even if I had, the trip was after the up front pricing started so passenger didn't pay an extra penny either way. Uber did not alert me that they were taking money out of my earnings, I just happened to notice it when I was going through my week's trips. I told Uber never to touch my earnings again, and explained that the passenger was 100% lying and trying to get reimbursed because the ride was a 2.2 x surge and he was complaining about that during the trip with me. I told them to look at the trips map, where you could clearly see the direct route from point A to point B that I took the passenger on.

They apologized for the mistake and acknowledged that they shouldn't have removed any of my earnings, and I told them they absolutely SHOULD NOT give that lying sack of pax any credit or money back, and I suggested that they deactivate him for lying about something like that. I'm sure they didn't, but at least I got it out of my system.


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## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

RogerKohrman said:


> It's a huge national problem.
> 
> The "Service Dog" fiasco is a growing problem in restaurants, hotels, property management and ride share and is even more problematic with people trying to argue for Emotional Support Animals to have the same protected status.
> 
> ...


In some stated intentionally interfering with a Service Dog like this is a felony.



Haskel45 said:


> Sorry no animals in my car, I'm an "independent contractor" right?
> 
> The worst that can happen is uber deactivates me, oh the horror
> 
> ...


Actually you can be sued or fined by the DOJ. The minimum fine for refusing a Service Dog is $50,000.



tohunt4me said:


> You are EVIL.
> I LIKE THAT !
> 
> Grizzly bear urine at door paremeter and ultrasonic deterrents . . . EXCELLENT.
> ...


It should become policy to interfere with a Service Dog and harm them?!


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## RogerKohrman (Sep 1, 2017)

JimKE said:


> Just two problems with that approach.
> 
> It's kind of cowardly to fake something instead of just confronting the situation honestly.





It would be nice to be allowed to do so but Uber/Lyft have removed the ability for any driver to honestly and openly deal with the issue by their policies in place that the Customer is always right and more important that the driver.



ServiceDogHandler said:


> Actually you can be sued or fined by the DOJ. The minimum fine for refusing a Service Dog is $50,000.


You people make up some really radical shit.


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## WelcomeTree (Nov 28, 2017)

There is a lightning deal on a quality protective blanket designed for dogs until all claimed. I just ordered one, they are 62% off and going fast, but figured I'd share.

http://a.co/1r61fgo


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

WelcomeTree said:


> There is a lightning deal on a quality protective blanket designed for dogs until all claimed. I just ordered one, they are 62% off and going fast, but figured I'd share.


Awesome find, I'll be sure to text that link to my passengers with animals, right before I complete the trip, 1-star them, and collect my cleaning fees.


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## WelcomeTree (Nov 28, 2017)

UberUber81 said:


> Awesome find, I'll be sure to text that link to my passengers with animals, right before I complete the trip, 1-star them, and collect my cleaning fees.


You do you. If it is obviously a fake service animal I'll 1 star them as well, but I've got no issue with legitimate service dogs

According to Uber's website:

*Cleaning Fees*
Riders cannot be charged cleaning fees for shedding by their service animals. Riders will be refunded any cleaning fees charged for shedding by their service animals.

So have fun with that, I'll keep my seats clean and not deal with the headache thank you very much.


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## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

hes talking about his fake poop. can't wait for him to try that on someone with a legit disability who knows the number of the DoJ. $50,000 fine + jail time if hes caught.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

RogerKohrman said:


> It would be nice to be allowed to do so but Uber/Lyft have removed the ability for any driver to honestly and openly deal with the issue by their policies in place that the Customer is always right and more important that the driver.
> 
> You people make up some really radical shit.


It's not made up, and it's not radical. I was just out on the web doing a google search on "what are the penalties fir refusing service to someone with a service animal"...

Found one info site that included a video of a news report where a restaurant manager was arrested for civil rights violations after refusing, admitting to have refused in the past, and refusing to change her position after being educated on the law.

It was extreme, as even the state AG admits, but absolutely warranted under the curcumstances.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

WelcomeTree said:


> *Cleaning Fees*
> Riders cannot be charged cleaning fees for shedding by their service animals. Riders will be refunded any cleaning fees charged for shedding by their service animals.


That is why I have faux fur, fake poop, and water on hand to make wet spots (urine). Trust me I'm getting paid when someone has a live animal. It used to annoy me now I only see dollar signs when someone approaches my vehicle with a live animal.


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## WelcomeTree (Nov 28, 2017)

wingdog said:


> hes talking about his fake poop. can't wait for him to try that on someone with a legit disability who knows the number of the DoJ. $50,000 fine + jail time if hes caught.


Exactly, I'm not risking that.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

wingdog said:


> hes talking about his fake poop. can't wait for him to try that on someone with a legit disability who knows the number of the DoJ. $50,000 fine + jail time if hes caught.


We request cleaning fees, we don't charge them. As far as anyone is concerned, I'm just an ant requesting reimbursement for hair, urine and feces. How am I supposed to know if it's a service animal or not? LOL

Ambiguity can work both ways.


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## ServiceDogHandler (Sep 3, 2017)

RogerKohrman said:


> It would be nice to be allowed to do so but Uber/Lyft have removed the ability for any driver to honestly and openly deal with the issue by their policies in place that the Customer is always right and more important that the driver.
> 
> You people make up some really radical shit.


I'm not making it up. Read some of the cases on https://www.ada.gov



wingdog said:


> hes talking about his fake poop. can't wait for him to try that on someone with a legit disability who knows the number of the DoJ. $50,000 fine + jail time if hes caught.


Because he's using an app it constitutes wire fraud which is a federal felony.


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## Fishchris (Aug 31, 2016)

OMG, at all this service dog crap !

Dogs are less problem than most pax !

Non service dogs are better though, because you can pet them


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## RedSteel (Apr 8, 2017)

Hate me all you want for this reply but every one is allowed their opinion

I have a nice place
I have nice things
I have a car I love that cost a pretty penny and I take immaculate care of it

I don't like dogs or cats.... they smell... they puss and $#1][ all over the place and I HATE that we are forced to take them and if there is anyway I could "dissuade" a Pax from bringing their destructive force on my car I am all for it

I don't let them in my house why would i want them in my car


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

This is one issue Uber takes the easy way out. There is a legal difference between support animals and service animals. Service animals are protected by ADA laws. Support animals are not. Rather than accept there is a difference, Uber lumps them all as service.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

mikes424 said:


> This is one issue Uber takes the easy way out. There is a legal difference between support animals and service animals. Service animals are protected by ADA laws. Support animals are not. Rather than accept there is a difference, Uber lumps them all as service.


Please provide a reference for that.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

mikes424 said:


> This is one issue Uber takes the easy way out. There is a legal difference between support animals and service animals. Service animals are protected by ADA laws. Support animals are not. Rather than accept there is a difference, Uber lumps them all as service.


I think Uber's policy is pretty straighforward and not that difficult to understand: Obey the law or don't drive for us.

The differences you are talking about are not Uber differences; they are differences in laws between various jurisdictions. Service animals are protected by ADA everywhere in the United States. However, some state and local governments have laws/ordinances/etc which extend those same protections to emotional support animals/therapy animals/etc.

Think of it like driving. Some states have different rules, speed limits, requirements, etc from other states. Some cities have red-light cameras; others don't.

Know your law, obey your law. You can do this.


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> Please provide a reference for that.


https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

mikes424 said:


> https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet


What does that site have to do with your claim that UBER lumps service and emotional support together?


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> What does that site have to do with your claim that UBER lumps service and emotional support together?


Simple.
If a rider claims a support/service animal wasn't allowed in an Uber, Uber will terminate the driver without checking if the animal is a true service animal or not.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

mikes424 said:


> Simple.
> If a rider claims a support/service animal wasn't allowed in an Uber, Uber will terminate the driver without checking if the animal is a true service animal or not.


Again, source.

No, they won't check, but if you fight it saying you gave dashcam footage showing bad behavior, dirty or ill-cared-for appearance, or the would-be pax fails the 2-question test, the suspension/deactivation can't hold.

And if it does, there is always the option of suing the pax for slander, defamation, and damages arising therefrom. You could be awarded gross earnings lost, not net after expenses, and, if you want, be reinstated with Uber afterwards based on the judgement in your favor.

Would it be worth it to you? I don't know. I don't know how much you make with Uber. None of my business.

It would be worth it for me.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

mikes424 said:


> Simple.
> If a rider claims a support/service animal wasn't allowed in an Uber, Uber will terminate the driver without checking if the animal is a true service animal or not.


That's not quite accurate. There are two scenarios:

*If Uber confirms that you denied service because of a service animal*, you are permanently deactivated with no appeal. If the situation was one where they have a confirmed cancellation of a ride, and the pax claims their dog is a service animal, I'd frankly be surprised if Uber's staff would ask the two magic questions. This is not a criminal case where they have to prove something beyond a reasonable doubt. In fact, they don't have to prove a thing.
*If Uber receives two or more *_*"plausible complaints,"* _but cannot confirm that you denied service because of a service animal, you are permanently deactivated with no appeal. 
The reasoning for the "plausible complaints" policy is "Where there is smoke, there's fire." That's certainly not the most airtight logic in the world, but Uber is simply not stupid enough to take a chance. So if they reasonably (in their opinion) _think_ you're discriminating against service animals, you're done.

And again, Uber doesn't have to prove a thing to anybody. Nobody said life was 100% fair.


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

I have no problem taking a legitimate service dog. I have a very BIG problem taking fake service dogs (read "emotional support" dogs). Here are photos of the Delta Airlines passenger who was attacked in flight by a fake service dog:










Here is a link to a story about fake service dogs attacking a blind man's seeing eye dog:

http://wgntv.com/2017/10/09/blind-mans-service-dog-attacked-by-fake-service-dog/

Something needs to be done about selfish people who falsely claim their dog is a service dog. People have legitimate need of service dogs and these other people who claim their dog is a service dog when it is not are lower than people who park in handicapped parking spaces.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

JimKE said:


> That's not quite accurate. There are two scenarios:
> 
> *If Uber confirms that you denied service because of a service animal*, you are permanently deactivated with no appeal. If the situation was one where they have a confirmed cancellation of a ride, and the pax claims their dog is a service animal, I'd frankly be surprised if Uber's staff would ask the two magic questions. This is not a criminal case where they have to prove something beyond a reasonable doubt. In fact, they don't have to prove a thing.
> *If Uber receives two or more *_*"plausible complaints,"* _but cannot confirm that you denied service because of a service animal, you are permanently deactivated with no appeal.
> ...


Which is why I said that if you are interested in becoming activated again in Uber, you might have to sue the passenger and then, after winning, present Uber with a copy of the judgment. The Judgment kills off any plausibility whatsoever Uber thought the pax's complaint might have had.



brianboru said:


> I have no problem taking a legitimate service dog. I have a very BIG problem taking fake service dogs (read "emotional support" dogs). Here are photos of the Delta Airlines passenger who was attacked in flight by a fake service dog:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have absolutely no problems with service animals. I have not had one in my car yet. I have had pets, but in each case, either they were secured in carriers of some sort, or their behavior was so docile that I really didn't have to worry about it.

I am not an animal hater by any stretch. However, a car is a close, enclosed space, and if a dog decides to lose it, it's probably going to go after the person who is not its owner. I have every right in the world to protect myself. This isn't even saying that there's anything wrong with the dog. Dogs are dogs. It's the human factor that makes them so unpredictable. And we know what some of the Pax can be like.



brianboru said:


> I have no problem taking a legitimate service dog. I have a very BIG problem taking fake service dogs (read "emotional support" dogs). Here are photos of the Delta Airlines passenger who was attacked in flight by a fake service dog:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The thing is, on an airline specifically, it doesn't even need to be a fake service dog. The person can claim it's an emotional support animal right up front. Airlines have decided to accept these right alongside service animals. As far as I know, they are not legally bound to do so. I hope that the person who was attacked by the dog actually does go after both the owner of the dog, and the airline for allowing the situation in the first place.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Anytime anyone says they have a service animal, I just agree, who cares..we are already driving for crap. Trying to fix a political issue with "non" service animals will just get you deactivated, just say yes and move on.


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## ImSkittles (Jan 6, 2018)

What would Uber do in a situation where a driver is allergic to dogs? Can they discriminate against the driver? 

I used to work at Holiday Inn and we had a "no pets" policy but we had to accept service dogs. Those people were given one of the handicapped rooms. It never happened but we were told that if the handicapped rooms were full then the person with a service dog would be told that we had no vacancy for them. The standard rooms had to be kept free from animals because future guests could have allergies to their hair.

I would think Uber would/should have a similar policy... there are enough drivers that will happily accept ALL pets, most will gladly accept service dogs and only a small few will refuse any animal at all. The PAX should be required to inform Uber so the proper driver can be matched up with him/her. 

Dog hair can be a problem for people with allergies and needs to be cleaned out because a later PAX could be allergic... I would think that having a "no pets" line of drivers would be a plus for Uber.


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## Mr Styg (Jan 3, 2018)

Julescase said:


> And I'll add that complaints = removing earnings from driver if pax claims the driver did something wrong, without speaking to the driver to get their side of the situation.
> 
> I've had money taken put of my earnings when a driver complained that I "started the ride too soon" and "drove an extra loop around the block." Same pax, two separate lies. I started the ride exactly when the ride should have started, and I didn't do any kind of loop around any block, but even if I had, the trip was after the up front pricing started so passenger didn't pay an extra penny either way. Uber did not alert me that they were taking money out of my earnings, I just happened to notice it when I was going through my week's trips. I told Uber never to touch my earnings again, and explained that the passenger was 100% lying and trying to get reimbursed because the ride was a 2.2 x surge and he was complaining about that during the trip with me. I told them to look at the trips map, where you could clearly see the direct route from point A to point B that I took the passenger on.
> 
> They apologized for the mistake and acknowledged that they shouldn't have removed any of my earnings, and I told them they absolutely SHOULD NOT give that lying sack of pax any credit or money back, and I suggested that they deactivate him for lying about something like that. I'm sure they didn't, but at least I got it out of my system.


I was reading earnings as "earrings".... Needless to say I was very confused at first. Lol maybe I need to get some sleep.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

ImSkittles said:


> What would Uber do in a situation where a driver is allergic to dogs? Can they discriminate against the driver?
> 
> I used to work at Holiday Inn and we had a "no pets" policy but we had to accept service dogs. Those people were given one of the handicapped rooms. It never happened but we were told that if the handicapped rooms were full then the person with a service dog would be told that we had no vacancy for them. The standard rooms had to be kept free from animals because future guests could have allergies to their hair.
> 
> ...


You might want to read Uber's policies. Both they and the ADA law itself are quite clear -- allergies are NOT a reason to deny a service animal. Doing so is illegal, and against Uber policy. If a driver is truly allergic to dogs, the remedy is to find another job where you don't have to deal with dogs.

If an Uber driver refuses to drive a service animal, they are permanently deactivated. Uber's policy is not hard to understand, and ADA has been the law of the land for 25 years or more.


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## ImSkittles (Jan 6, 2018)

JimKE said:


> You might want to read Uber's policies. Both they and the ADA law itself are quite clear -- allergies are NOT a reason to deny a service animal. Doing so is illegal, and against Uber policy. If a driver is truly allergic to dogs, the remedy is to find another job where you don't have to deal with dogs.
> 
> If an Uber driver refuses to drive a service animal, they are permanently deactivated. Uber's policy is not hard to understand, and ADA has been the law of the land for 25 years or more.


 OK, I did look it up (this morning) and it would appear that if the allergy is legitimate and it would cause the driver to lose work, (eyes swelling shut, for example) then Uber would be required to accommodate the driver who has the disability. Uber would also have to accommodate the person with the service animal by providing another ride. Severe allergies are covered under the ADA.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

I always say I can't take an animal because of allergies, but if they say it is a service animal, I just go with it and let them in. You can't fight trends right now, having a service animal is a trend and if you say no, you will be deactivated, no 20 year old tech is going to care about why you said no at these companies, they just move on and go with the trends.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

wingdog said:


> I was thinking of how I was going to give you a detailed answer to your questions, but I was interupted by my service dog, telling me it was time to take my afternoon pills, at 9:00 on the dot... so i'm going to cut it much shorter than I intended and give you this link instead
> 
> http://servicedogcentral.org/content/node/77
> 
> ...


Will tell you when it is 9:00 also.
$14.29.
Buy one for your dog.
At Target.


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## buyanet (Dec 22, 2017)

I have a large dog myself and a huge dog pad that covers my whole cargo area .... bring on the service dogs! As long as they don’t try to bring them in the backseat on my leather, I’m fine.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

Delta has gotten sick of the buffoons with their fake comfort turkeys and service rats and are instituting a new policy soon:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/19/del...equirements-for-support-animals-on-board.html


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

ImSkittles said:


> OK, I did look it up (this morning) and it would appear that if the allergy is legitimate and it would cause the driver to lose work, (eyes swelling shut, for example) then Uber would be required to accommodate the driver who has the disability. Uber would also have to accommodate the person with the service animal by providing another ride. Severe allergies are covered under the ADA.


Stick with that theory and see how quick Uber deactivates you.



ShinyAndChrome said:


> Delta has gotten sick of the buffoons with their fake comfort turkeys and service rats and are instituting a new policy soon:
> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/19/del...equirements-for-support-animals-on-board.html


I actually like Delta's approach, because the abuse is rampant on airlines. I think they made an easily correctable mistake, however.

They are requiring things of service animals and ESAs that they don't require of other animals who are paying to fly. You can't require something of an ADA-protected animal that you don't require of all animals. That's the definition of discrimination, and I expect Delta will adjust that position. I think if they said you have to provide documentation of ALL animals shots to bring them on our aircraft, they would have been fine.


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## ImSkittles (Jan 6, 2018)

JimKE said:


> Stick with that theory and see how quick Uber deactivates you.


Why are you getting snippy with me? I don't make the rules. Besides, I don't drive for Uber, lol. My original question was hypothetical... nothing more, nothing less. I found the answer and apparently there are exceptions.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

ImSkittles said:


> What would Uber do in a situation where a driver is allergic to dogs? Can they discriminate against the driver?
> 
> I used to work at Holiday Inn and we had a "no pets" policy but we had to accept service dogs. Those people were given one of the handicapped rooms. It never happened but we were told that if the handicapped rooms were full then the person with a service dog would be told that we had no vacancy for them. The standard rooms had to be kept free from animals because future guests could have allergies to their hair.
> 
> ...


The ADA specifically allows that, while allergies are also a bona fide disability, they don't supersede Service Animals.



ImSkittles said:


> OK, I did look it up (this morning) and it would appear that if the allergy is legitimate and it would cause the driver to lose work, (eyes swelling shut, for example) then Uber would be required to accommodate the driver who has the disability. Uber would also have to accommodate the person with the service animal by providing another ride. Severe allergies are covered under the ADA.


Nope. They can't make them wait longer for a ride.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

wingdog said:


> I have a Psychological Service Dog.


What task(s) has your animal been trained to perform?


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## Phantomshark (Jan 21, 2018)

Haskel45 said:


> Sorry no animals in my car, I'm an "independent contractor" right?
> 
> The worst that can happen is uber deactivates me, oh the horror
> 
> ...


Tough. It's a legal issue. Uber should and will deactivate you if you refuse to take a service animal in your car. That's discrimination against the rider for being blind (or whatever his/her handicap is that requires the dog).



ImSkittles said:


> OK, I did look it up (this morning) and it would appear that if the allergy is legitimate and it would cause the driver to lose work, (eyes swelling shut, for example) then Uber would be required to accommodate the driver who has the disability. Uber would also have to accommodate the person with the service animal by providing another ride. Severe allergies are covered under the ADA.


From Uber's policy, directly copied:

*Legal Obligations of Driver-Partners*
Driver-partners have a legal obligation to provide service to riders with service animals.

A driver-partner CANNOT lawfully deny service to riders with service animals because of allergies, religious objections, or a generalized fear of animals.

By virtue of their written Technology Services Agreement with Uber, all driver-partners using the Driver App have been made aware of their legal obligation to provide service to riders with service animals and have agreed to comply with the law. If a driver-partner refuses to transport a rider with a service animal because of the service animal, the driver-partner is in violation of the law and is in breach of their agreement with Uber.


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## ImSkittles (Jan 6, 2018)

Phantomshark said:


> Tough. It's a legal issue. Uber should and will deactivate you if you refuse to take a service animal in your car. That's discrimination against the rider for being blind (or whatever his/her handicap is that requires the dog).
> 
> From Uber's policy, directly copied:
> 
> ...


Thank you and thank you to SuzeCB for your thoughtful responses. The hypothetical question came about because of my years at Holiday Inn and all the different things people claimed to be allergic to. Pet dander being only one of the many things.

I have a service dog that helps me keep my balance when I have to walk long distances. She's large and I suppose she's considered a scary breed, Doberman, so I just try to adjust my life around people who have these fears of dogs for the most part.

I have read far more about service dogs in the past couple of days than I have in the past five years of having my service dog! My condition and my dog are very legitimate, it was my Doctor who actually recommended that I get a dog to help me. Add to that she was formally trained but that's just common sense because of her size and breed.

I have read the exceptions to the law and there is only one court case that I was able to find on people with allergies and the law concerning the ADA. I don't want to argue with people simply because this is clearly something that's incredibly rare.

I will personally never subject somebody to my dog that has such a hatred for them. But hey, that's just me.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

JimKE said:


> Stick with that theory and see how quick Uber deactivates you.


Sorry, but you posted bogus information that could get some driver deactivated. Check the laws and policies before you post something that could hurt another driver.

Phantomshark cut and pasted the* verbatim information from Uber's policies* above (which are exactly the opposite of what you posted). Uber will not cut any driver any slack on service animals due to allergies -- because that is prohibited by ADA.

They will, in fact, permanently deactivate you for declining to drive a service animal due to your allergies. Allergies are simply no excuse.


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## UberUber81 (Jul 21, 2016)

Guys it's simple. Take the animal, 1-star, asked not to be paired with again. Submit for cleaning fees after you make a "wet spot" and put fake fur all over the seats.

Problem solved!


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## shadowjos (Sep 28, 2017)

This is a tricky situation when it comes to dogs. It is my understanding that Uber does not verify that the pax has in fact the need for a service dog and is in possession of one. I think if you make a passenger angry by refusing to take them because they have a dog, they could just report to Uber, claim that you rejected them because of the dog or service animal and you would be deactivated, forever. We as drivers are very vulnerable to pax complaints.
I have never had a pax with an animal but I have been a pax myself with a small dog and have had to call an Uber. A couple of years ago I was helping my mother move and on the last trip I had to take her dog with me, return the rental truck and catch an Uber. I know for a fact that the dog is well behaved and will not relieve himself under normal circumstances but even so I called the driver and asked if it was okay to bring a small dog into his car. He graciously agreed and I tipped him cash for his flexibility. In retrospect even if he didn't want to, he probably agreed out of fear that I would report him but at the time I had no idea how Uber really worked. It was just common courtesy and decency.

I just saw this interesting article about service and "emotional support" animals. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-feet-as-more-people-bring-animals-on-planes/


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## Working4peanuts (Jan 16, 2018)

Swerves said:


> Worst clean-up I've had to do, and it took days to get that smell out of my car, was caused by two human females who layer dollar-store grease over their already nasty, unwashed, knock-off Remy hair and then lean their heads back on my seats.
> 
> I would drive dogs full-time if I could. I can't stand a ***** to look me in the eye and tell me her obsessively compulsed Shih Tzu is a service dog, you ain't got to lie to me, I don't discriminate, the dog's welcome.


One word: scotchguard. Takes care of that problem.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

shadowjos said:


> This is a tricky situation when it comes to dogs. It is my understanding that Uber does not verify that the pax has in fact the need for a service dog and is in possession of one. I think if you make a passenger angry by refusing to take them because they have a dog, they could just report to Uber, claim that you rejected them because of the dog or service animal and you would be deactivated, forever. We as drivers are very vulnerable to pax complaints.
> I have never had a pax with an animal but I have been a pax myself with a small dog and have had to call an Uber. A couple of years ago I was helping my mother move and on the last trip I had to take her dog with me, return the rental truck and catch an Uber. I know for a fact that the dog is well behaved and will not relieve himself under normal circumstances but even so I called the driver and asked if it was okay to bring a small dog into his car. He graciously agreed and I tipped him cash for his flexibility. In retrospect even if he didn't want to, he probably agreed out of fear that I would report him but at the time I had no idea how Uber really worked. It was just common courtesy and decency.
> 
> I just saw this interesting article about service and "emotional support" animals. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-feet-as-more-people-bring-animals-on-planes/


The problem is that Uber CAN'T verify. It's not that they don't want to, or are unwilling to. They legally can not. On a personal level, I kind of wish there was a ID system, but as it stands now, there is not. There are actually reasons for this.

Who would pay for it? They can't legally make the disabled people pay for it (discrimination), so would the states pay, the federal government pay? Obviously neither of them wants to have to pay for it (the states would argue that it's a federal law, thus the feds should have to, the federal government would argue that it falls under state disability systems). How would they test? Take an epileptic and flash lights in their face and see if the dog alerts before they start their seizure? You can imagine how well that would go over. Then there is the whole discrimination argument. Why should they have to prove they need their dog and someone in a wheelchair doesn't have to prove they need their wheelchair? There is a whole slippery slope going on there. What are we going to do, make anyone who uses any medical assistive device (which is what both a service dog and a wheel chair legally are) prove they need it?

While I would personally like to see an ID system (and would happily submit to one), there are many others who don't feel the same way, and they do have valid points, like the ones I just raised. Regardless of how I (or you) feel about it, the fact is that the law currently does not allow them to ask about disabilities or request documentation. Therefore there is no legal way that they could check if "the pax has, in fact, the need for a service dog and is in possession of one." That is why they included the famous "two questions" (is that a service animal and what tasks does it perform).

THAT is your defense to the random pax complaint. If you don't already have a dash cam (and you really should), get one. Ask the questions, if they answer them right (even if they are faking and are just well educated) and the dog is behaving, then you have to take it. If they don't (and the grand majority of the fakers won't, or will say "emotional support", which is NOT a service animal), then you have it on record, and can politely refuse. Even if they do complain, you have yourself covered (in the manner that SuzeCB explained earlier).


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## htboston (Feb 22, 2016)

Service dogs are slowing down the natural progress of Darwinism


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## RedANT (Aug 9, 2016)

JimKE said:


> You might want to read Uber's policies. Both they and the ADA law itself are quite clear -- allergies are NOT a reason to deny a service animal. Doing so is illegal, and against Uber policy. If a driver is truly allergic to dogs, the remedy is to find another job where you don't have to deal with dogs.
> 
> If an Uber driver refuses to drive a service animal, they are permanently deactivated. Uber's policy is not hard to understand, and ADA has been the law of the land for 25 years or more.


If a driver suffers severe allergies but is deactivated by Uber, why wouldn't that driver be, likewise, protected under the ADAA? Surely Uber not deactivating a driver would be a reasonable accommodation.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

The ADA actually does address when people with allergies and someone with a service dog HAVE to be together (like in a plane, or in this case, in an Uber) and simply says that they should be placed as far apart as possible (ie, even if I wanted to ride in front, you have every right in that case to put me in the back, and on the passengers side away from directly behind you, in theory if you had third row seating, you could even ask, as a reasonable accommodation, that I sit back there). They effectively deal with it based on severity, and the need for a service animal trumps the need to take a Allegra (allergies).


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## RedANT (Aug 9, 2016)

Allergies can also be ADA protected disabilities. Are you saying that a driver must surrender their ADA protected status because finding another driver isn't a reasonable accommodation?


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

I would disagree with the term "surrender", but otherwise, yes. That attempt has already been made and ruled upon. The problem with Uber/Lyft is the same "independent contractor" status that most of us actually came to it for. Basically put, you are your own company, and Uber is simply a facilitator. Therefore IF you had another driver (for your own company) that you could send, and IF it would be in a reasonable time frame, you might be able to pull off having another driver take them. Even most cab companies can't meet the "reasonable time" criteria, but in a few cases they've been able to use another driver. With the exception of a very small number of so called "fleets", most of us don't have another driver to send (remember it would have to be YOUR company, not Uber that would send the other driver). And even if we did, we'd be unlikely to meet the time criteria (I forget offhand what they ruled was a reasonable time but it was something like 5 minutes). 

Now, if Uber could control where their vehicles were (ie, if we were employees and they could tell us when to work, where to work, etc), then they could possibly be required to send another driver if there was one 5 mintues away. But then we'd all be employees, and most of us wouldn't be here. Again, the bottom line is one of severity. Need for a service dog trumps allergies. It doesn't mean you "surrender" anything. It just means the downsides of not having a service dog have access is more impacting than the downsides of having to take an Allegra.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

RedANT said:


> If a driver suffers severe allergies but is deactivated by Uber, why wouldn't that driver be, likewise, protected under the ADAA? Surely Uber not deactivating a driver would be a reasonable accommodation.


The key is "reasonable." An accommodation which violates the Federal law that has been in place for 28 years would not be a "reasonable" accommodation. It really wouldn't.

I think a lot of people are new to this issue, but this stuff have been around for DECADES. Not weeks, but many years. All of the issues like allergies have been thoroughly litigated LONG ago.

There are lots of things to criticize Uber for, but their service animal policy just isn't one of them.


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## RedANT (Aug 9, 2016)

My point is that a person with disabilities does not surrender their right to protection under the ADA. What you're saying is that the rights of others are greater than my protected rights, and that if I get a ping to pickup someone with a service animal, I automatically lose my right to protection under that ADA. If Uber terminates our business relationship because of my protected disability, they're in violation of the provisions set forth in the ADA.

I'm already pissed that Uber allows passengers to penalize my ratings because I'm unable to pick up their 100 lb suitcases because of disability. I have rights too. (I'm referring to the one star I got because the passenger had to pick up his own suitcase and place it in the trunk next to my cane)


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Yes, I'm saying that their right to a service dog trumps your right to not take Allegra. Actually, more importantly, the ADA is saying that (they mention allergies specifically as that's come up many times in the last 28 years). If your allergies are so severe that you literally can't be around service dogs, then you would be deemed as unable to do the essential functions. IF you were an employee, Uber would have to offer you a different position (perhaps in a green light hub), but then you aren't an employee are you? As an independent contractor, if you are unable to fulfill the terms of your contract you have the right to go do something else.

As for being one starred because of the suitcase, that was a paxhole move on the pax part.


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## RedANT (Aug 9, 2016)

Pawtism said:


> Yes, I'm saying that their right to a service dog trumps your right to not take Allegra.


Thanks for making fun of people with allergies. Next time I'll pick em' up, let my eyes puff up and close, then run off the road and kill everyone in the car because I can't see. Problem solved, right?


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## Phantomshark (Jan 21, 2018)

The law is the law. Blame the ADA, they are the ones that say that allergies are not allowed to be used as a reason to not accommodate a service animal. All I know is, if you don't allow a passenger in your car because they have a service animal, you are not only going to be deactivated by Uber, but you could even be sued by the pax.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

RedANT said:


> Allergies can also be ADA protected disabilities. Are you saying that a driver must surrender their ADA protected status because finding another driver isn't a reasonable accommodation?


They are called disabilities for a reason. A disability means you are unable to do certain things. In the case of employment, and in this example specifically, if your disabilities keeps you from complying with law, you are unable to do that job.

And yes, even those with service animals do have some restrictions put on them along these lines, as well. A surgeon who has a service animal will not be allowed to bring it into the operating room with him or her. Since that would be the case, either he or she would have to leave the dog behind, or give up being a surgeon. A person requiring a wheelchair cannot get a job playing football. Someone who is completely blind, with or without a service dog, cannot be a crossing guard.

This is the reason that we have other disability benefits that fall under Social Security. To be DIS-abled means there are things you simply cannot do. The ADA exist 2 try to even things up as much as possible, but we all know that that's not possible.

When it comes to laws, it boils down to being, quite often, a matter of you have to draw the line somewhere. We all know people who were quite mature and intelligent and, in just about every way, able to take care of themselves as any adult would be expected to. They were not, however, legally of adult age and legally able to. Similarly, we all know people who never grew up, and make terrible decisions for themselves every single day. However, because they are over the age of 18, they are allowed to continue to do so. They are considered adults.

The line has to be drawn somewhere, and this is where it was drawn. Moving it will not only change things for those with service dogs, but it would end up changing things for everyone with any sort of disability that needed any sort of accommodation.

You can refuse the animal if it is dirty or uncared-for. You can refuse the animal if it is not behaving as a service animal should. Take a look on YouTube and search 4 videos regarding service animals. There are several people who have service animals, for different reasons, who take these videos in an attempt to educate people as to what their dogs do. You will see a major difference in the way that these dogs behave versus the average dog you see walking down the street.

Service dogs are rare. The only true dog like Behavior that they have that enables them to be service dogs is their pack mentality and desire to please. That makes them loyal to their handlers, and eager to quickly learn what they need to learn. Past that, their demeanors right from birth need to be pretty docile. They cannot exhibit any Alpha Behavior whatsoever. There can be absolutely no issues over territory. No food aggression. Little to no play aggression. These are not your run-of-the-mill dogs. Certain breeds May produce more of these types of dogs, but no breed can be 100% consistent in this. Even with this, many, many dogs chosen for training wash out.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

First, I'm not making fun of anyone. Second, I both have a service dog AND allergies (yes, to dogs, among with a slew of other things). Most people at the allergist already know my story but once in a while a new person still comes in and asks "you're allergic to your dog and you still have it?" Yup... Turns out that getting shots once a week is less restrictive on my life than not having my service dog is. And, of course, allergy shots aren't 100% effective, so I take my Allegra (or Claritin, turns out you have to mix it up once in a while or it's not as effective). So, if I can do it, and be around a service dog 24/7, you can do it too, especially to only be around one for like 10 minutes once every 3 months or so. While I'm not making fun of you, I have no sympathy for you either.

As SuzeCB pointed out, there are a ton of jobs I can't do (legally, not even counting my disabilities), I could be a cook (physically), but nope, can't be in the kitchen with a service dog (while ADA makes exceptions for front of the house, back of the house is still strictly off limits). I wanted to be in Law Enforcement, but I can't (physically) jump over walls and chase people down. Now I could sit around and cry about how unfair it is, or say people are making fun of me, or get on disability (and no offense to those who do have to get on disability, for some there really is no other option), or.... I could do what I actually did, go find something in the legal field that I could do with my disabilities (and service dog).


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## Fishchris (Aug 31, 2016)

RedSteel said:


> Hate me all you want for this reply but every one is allowed their opinion
> 
> I have a nice place
> I have nice things
> ...


I'm not gong to hate on you. I'd only say that you were not raised right  lol


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## wingdog (Nov 6, 2017)

Pawtism said:


> First, I'm not making fun of anyone. Second, I both have a service dog AND allergies (yes, to dogs, among with a slew of other things). Most people at the allergist already know my story but once in a while a new person still comes in and asks "you're allergic to your dog and you still have it?" Yup... Turns out that getting shots once a week is less restrictive on my life than not having my service dog is. And, of course, allergy shots aren't 100% effective, so I take my Allegra (or Claritin, turns out you have to mix it up once in a while or it's not as effective). So, if I can do it, and be around a service dog 24/7, you can do it too, especially to only be around one for like 10 minutes once every 3 months or so. While I'm not making fun of you, I have no sympathy for you either.


Me to! I posted about this before (In a different thread I think, but maybe this one. Service Dog discussions in several places) and was mocked about it. It was my pulmonologist who was the first doctor to prescribe a dog to me. He said it would help with my asthma and that I qualified for it due to my other disabilities, since I could train him to preform actions to help with them.


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