# Uber now tells us where we are going and how much.



## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)




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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Mole said:


> View attachment 384248


They tell people in California that
I dont even get the pax rating in Chicago


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## marathon_1 (Mar 28, 2017)

Got the same email. Looks like only in CA


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Yeah now that they got their teets in the ringer in California and soon every where else. They've certainly got nobody to blame but themselves for AB5. 
Now, now they're all up front with all the info (at least in California) they should've been giving us all along as "independent contractors" since day 1 if we are in the truest sense of the definition, "independent contractor" and truly independent. Finally the politicians see through this lunacy and uber is brought kicking and screaming to the table!


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

I just got the email. California only, in a phased rollout starting today.

1) Driver can now see the pickup and destination points, the trip duration and distance, the estimated fare... along with all the usual stuff, before accepting.

2) A pax can now choose a favorite driver

3) No longer need to hold an 85% acceptance rate to maintain Uber Pro status


--------------
CC's take:
1) What's not to love?

2) I always thought it would be a great feature, but in practice would screw things up for both pax and driver by bypassing the nearest driver algo.

3) Who cares? Pro becomes nearly meaningless now.


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## Youburr (Aug 22, 2019)

LOL their example photo. 4.84 I would have to think twice about that character.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

Elmo Burrito said:


> Yeah now that they got their teets in the ringer in California and soon every where else. They've certainly got nobody to blame but themselves for AB5.
> Now, now they're all up front with all the info (at least in California) they should've been giving us all along as "independent contractors" since day 1 if we are in the truest sense of the definition, "independent contractor" and truly independent. Finally the politicians see through this lunacy and uber is brought kicking and screaming to the table!


Damn strait!


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

this is stuff we should have had from the get-go

like i always say now, though, atleast I'm not driving for Lyft

eff Lyft and their shenanigans

But Uber is trying to lay the groundwork for their ballot initiative...as they prepare to try to get their 750,000 signatures to get it on the 2020 ballot


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

It should say: 

California courts have forced us to do what we should have been doing all along!


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## SteveAvery (Jan 20, 2016)

When is LYFT going to do this??


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Mole said:


> View attachment 384248
> View attachment 384248


Why ONLY CALIFORNIA !?!?



SteveAvery said:


> When is LYFT going to do this??


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> this is stuff we should have had from the get-go
> 
> like i always say now, though, atleast I'm not driving for Lyft
> 
> ...


They still need to reverse driver's rates back to 2015 levels, otherwise all this is useless.


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

SteveAvery said:


> When is LYFT going to do this??


Next week.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

They are doing it because they have to not because they think it will make things better or that it's the right thing to do, ... otherwise they would roll this out nation wide. Screw them, they can rot in hell. My only regret is that they will get driver's who are dumb enough to give them ballot signatures to repeal AB5


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Youburr said:


> View attachment 384264
> 
> LOL their example photo. 4.84 I would have to think twice about that character.


I'd pass.

Rating is too low and 20 minutes is too far away (assuming i'm reading that as the time to get to the pickup?)

I can see all the $4.00 pings getting rejected ene masse after that goes into effect ROFL.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I'd pass.
> 
> Rating is too low and 20 minutes is too far away (assuming i'm reading that as the time to get to the pickup?)
> 
> I can see all the $4.00 pings getting rejected ene masse after that goes into effect ROFL.


20 minutes is the ride (rider in the car from pick up point to drop off point) and 7 minutes is the distance to where the rider is (no rider in the car) in relation to where the car is located at the request time.

Under AB5 pressure, Uber is sacrificing the short rides.

Where are the shills saying Uber will pull out of CA?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

jocker12 said:


> They still need to reverse driver's rates back to 2015 levels, otherwise all this is useless.


it's not even 1% of the stuff they would have to do to make drivers IE's


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

This is all about AB5 and a huge Hail Mary by Uber. Uber came kicking and screaming into this and had no choice. This will force fares to go up substantially. Who's going to take a 4 dollar fare from the airport? Pax will end up putting in a destination 30 miles away and then try to change it when they get in. It's going to be a wild ride. Also I expect more competitors to enter the market.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

I haven't seen the full ping info yet, but my AR display is now gone from the app. And I qualify for a free drink again, I'm so happy (not).


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

Here's the problem Uber still faces from a legal standpoint. They are still setting the fares. If Uber implemented these changes and also allowed drivers to set their own price, then yes, drivers would be independent contractors. Uber hopes they don't have to go that far.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> Here's the problem Uber still faces from a legal standpoint. They are still setting the fares. If Uber implemented these changes and also allowed drivers to set their own price, then yes, drivers would be independent contractors. Uber hopes they don't have to go that far.


not quite....drivers would also have to be "free from the control of" Uber and they are still a long way from that


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

Watch them realize how empowering their contractors actually helps everyone succeed, and then they still stubbornly refuse to accept it and refuse to implement this feature for everyone.


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> not quite....drivers would also have to be "free from the control of" Uber and they are still a long way from that


What control? If you can pick the rides you want and know where it's going and can set your own price, what else is there? Other than ratings. This is Uber crying uncle. This is Uber throwing in the towel.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> What control? If you can pick the rides you want and know where it's going and can set your own price, what else is there? Other than ratings. This is Uber crying uncle. This is Uber throwing in the towel.


Clearly you have never been a driver.

But we already knew that, didnt we, tomatopaste ?


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

This is not small potatoes, this is the whole ballgame. If drivers know where the ride is going then no one is going to take the crappy 3 dollar rides to Walmart and Uber just lost half of their customer base.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Clearly you have never been a driver.


There was a "180 days of change" for drivers back in 2017, and what happened in the next 2 years?












uberdriverfornow said:


> But we already knew that, didnt we, tomatopaste ?


Now he is back, and he morphed in a cute puppy...


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

who driving in SF is going to accept a east bay trip??? this is going to cause a lot of riders to claim racism if they cant get a ride home....they are going to phase this out and by the time were back to square 1 the dest filter will be gone, we'll end up w nothing......so well get this while dest filter is removed than theyll say too bad riders couldnt get rides so everything will be gone..........just keep dest filter and add long trip warning for 30 plus minutes, forget this............


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

dnlbaboof said:


> who driving in SF is going to accept a east bay trip??? this is going to cause a lot of riders to claim racism if they cant get a ride home....they are going to phase this out and by the time were back to square 1 the dest filter will be gone, we'll end up w nothing......so well get this while dest filter is removed than theyll say too bad riders couldnt get rides so everything will be gone..........just keep dest filter and add long trip warning for 30 plus minutes, forget this............


They can't go back to square one. This is all about AB5. If drivers become employees Uber is out of business so their last resort is to actually treat drivers as real independent contractors. But then they're between a rock and a hard place and run into the scenario you just described where pax will cry discrimination. Don't see how Uber can square this circle. Chickens have finally come home to roost.


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

they need one rate per mile for all of ca.....so ppl dont avoid east bay bc of low rates and keep dest filter w no restrictions....so ppl can come home from long trips


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

dnlbaboof said:


> they need one rate per mile for all of ca.....so ppl dont avoid east bay bc of low rates and keep dest filter w no restrictions....so ppl can come home from long trips


Not that easy. If drivers are independent contractors then they need to be able to set their own price and they need to see what the job is before accepting the job.


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## 2starDriver (Mar 22, 2019)

Single Malt said:


> Not that easy. If drivers are independent contractors then they need to be able to set their own price and they need to see what the job is before accepting the job.


Its not hard to set a rate that everyone (except riders they'll always be cheap) be happy. 
25% cheaper than yellowcab is fair enough. 1.75 per mile 50c per min? Im good with that.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Single Malt said:


> If drivers are independent contractors


The message in the post doesn't show the drivers are considered fully independent as long as they obviously CANNOT set their own rates.

Do you see how the drivers will be allowed to negotiate their own rates in the Uber message sent to California drivers and posted at the beginning of this thread?

And isn't the world changing anymore?


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

So I get it with uber blue 🔷️?

I might get off my ass and uber tomorrow 🤔


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## Ovaro (Dec 18, 2018)

It is quite simple, pay us better and piss off with all these new gimmicks and additional features!


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Single Malt said:


> This is not small potatoes, this is the whole ballgame. If drivers know where the ride is going then no one is going to take the crappy 3 dollar rides to Walmart and Uber just lost half of their customer base.


didn't i say that?

And probably more than that, Most people who get the crappy $3.00 rides also take longer rides on occasion. If uber stops working for them 75% of the time uber just lost 100% of their business.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

Yes yes yes

Means other states coming soon

True independent contractor status

When they started giving 45+ min for 30 min rides here made $4000 in 10 days till they fixed it

They'll have to let this go Nationwide
Slightly good behavior till then

Now the dumb & desperate have a CHOICE for their dumb & desperate acceptance of a $3-8 fare lmao

Updating app every time one comes up lol when I refuse to update till forced

Drivers from other states should flood support & demand this, California & eats getting it is discriminating against rest of labor force

No one will drive for Lyft if they don't follow within a week lol

Watch how efficient the system gets now it'll be amazing flexibility for all

Now it's time to cap drivers, cap% took, and increase rates

Baby steps







Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> didn't i say that?
> 
> And probably more than that, Most people who get the crappy $3.00 rides also take longer rides on occasion. If uber stops working for them 75% of the time uber just lost 100% of their business.


They're not crappy they're illegal & predatory

So now they lose 3 million per day instead of 12 if the idiots driving for pro status or actually take $3-8 rides now that on they stupid or desperate super scabbing behinds far as I'm concerned they just as bad as Uber Lyft & part of the problem working for childrens wages

Uber Lyft isn't doing any real "business" it's all predatory illegal selling $5 bills for $2 I don't want customers who can't afford my service & as an independent contractor I'm not setting my prices 41% lower than actual costs

Now I can just drive when I want and take rides that make sense & locals nearby who love my service can book me instead of super ants who don't live here circling me 8+ hours a day

My d just got hard lol



Single Malt said:


> What control? If you can pick the rides you want and know where it's going and can set your own price, what else is there? Other than ratings. This is Uber crying uncle. This is Uber throwing in the towel.


Yup they probably crying about this how dare we not be able to trick idiots into driving for free anymore



Single Malt said:


> This is not small potatoes, this is the whole ballgame. If drivers know where the ride is going then no one is going to take the crappy 3 dollar rides to Walmart and Uber just lost half of their customer base.


Yeah they will because locals will favorite the good drivers so they can't flood good areas sleep & circle in their cars they'll have to work their hoods & take what's left

Desperate and or dumb is still desperate & dumb people still taking eats orders at less $10 they've had details for over a month

And eventually they'll incentivies those rides somehow, there's still drivers who might want to stay in their local area, or it might be on their way so ef it might as well get the gas money

And again they ARE NOT customers if not paying actual costs and your being paid less than your costs or less than minimum wage after your costs, they're theives using an app to steal from you



dnlbaboof said:


> who driving in SF is going to accept a east bay trip??? this is going to cause a lot of riders to claim racism if they cant get a ride home....they are going to phase this out and by the time were back to square 1 the dest filter will be gone, we'll end up w nothing......so well get this while dest filter is removed than theyll say too bad riders couldnt get rides so everything will be gone..........just keep dest filter and add long trip warning for 30 plus minutes, forget this............


A driver that lives in the morning East Bay or is going that way

Real efficient like

Drivers that live in those hoods will service the hoods

I'd personally be happy if they just flashed an airplane icon to let me know it's airport but this is how it should always have been it's about time and drivers from other states should demand it

Why food & Cali get it & not all drivers, will make a flyer today to spread

No strikes needed just demand this feature for all



Single Malt said:


> This is all about AB5 and a huge Hail Mary by Uber. Uber came kicking and screaming into this and had no choice. This will force fares to go up substantially. Who's going to take a 4 dollar fare from the airport? Pax will end up putting in a destination 30 miles away and then try to change it when they get in. It's going to be a wild ride. Also I expect more competitors to enter the market.


And those will be my only cancels instead of like now where I cancel after arriving because it's a short fare that doesn't cover my costs

Already been ignoring and cancelling 90+% of rides for 4+ years, now my cr will go from 40% to 1% & my ar will still be less than 10% but I won't be wasting all that time playing games, texting pax, starting trip early etc


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

2starDriver said:


> Its not hard to set a rate that everyone (except riders they'll always be cheap) be happy.
> 25% cheaper than yellowcab is fair enough. 1.75 per mile 50c per min? Im good with that.


That's not the issue. The issue is setting the price, period. If drivers are independent contractors then how can these independent contractors all be charging the exact same fare? That's price fixing and Uber is being sued for price fixing as well.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

Single Malt said:


> That's not the issue. The issue is setting the price, period. If drivers are independent contractors then how can these independent contractors all be charging the exact same fare? That's price fixing and Uber is being sued for price fixing as well.


That's next fight lol let's get this out to everyone first that one will take a few more years and if they don't set a minimum super scabs will set prices under it

We had an app here that didn't last a year and idiots here set their prices lower than Uber lyfts I ish u not


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Drivers setting their own rates would probably be a mess.

Want to be 100% independent and set your own rates, then create your own app, cultivate your own clients, handle customer complaints, handle billing, handle chargebacks, handle proper licensing and the paperwork for doing the service, etc., etc.

As an IC working for U/L you choose whether or not their rates are acceptable. If they aren't, then you don't work for them.

Yes, the companies are typical corporate scum, but they do handle a ton of things that almost no drivers would be capable of handling on their own.


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

troothequalstroll said:


> That's next fight lol let's get this out to everyone first that one will take a few more years and if they don't set a minimum super scabs will set prices under it
> 
> We had an app here that didn't last a year and idiots here set their prices lower than Uber lyfts I ish u not


No, it won't take years. The shit is hitting the fan now. Uber is desperately trying to appease regulators in anyway they can in order to keep the lights on. Problem for Uber is they're trying to have it both ways.

"This has always been a simple case," said Andy Schmidt, the lawyer who filed the original federal district court action back in late 2015. "Uber wants to have it both ways." By "both ways" Schmidt is referring to Uber's argument that it simply has a platform that matches drivers to their clients (riders) while setting the prices for rides.
"Uber says its drivers are independent actors. But Uber drivers do not compete against each other on price. When they surge prices, they do so in unison, something that could not happen without Uber's coordination," Schmidt told Motherboard. "Is that price-fixing? We think the answer is yes.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/d3adbv/this-case-will-decide-if-ubers-surge-pricing-is-illegal


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

Single Malt said:


> No, it won't take years. The shit is hitting the fan now. Uber is desperately trying to appease regulators in anyway they can in order to keep the lights on. Problem for Uber is they're trying to have it both ways.
> 
> "This has always been a simple case," said Andy Schmidt, the lawyer who filed the original federal district court action back in late 2015. "Uber wants to have it both ways." By "both ways" Schmidt is referring to Uber's argument that it simply has a platform that matches drivers to their clients (riders) while setting the prices for rides.
> "Uber says its drivers are independent actors. But Uber drivers do not compete against each other on price. When they surge prices, they do so in unison, something that could not happen without Uber's coordination," Schmidt told Motherboard. "Is that price-fixing? We think the answer is yes.
> ...


Most drivers will be content with this sad but true, once I get this info Im not spending as much energy on it that's for sure, I'll be too busy making $400+ a day driving people to the airport to care anymore & usually Uber takes stuff back so I'll be hitting it hard just in case

They'll have appeased me ill still be xl only that'll be drivers who drive for.60 a miles fight

This has been going on since 2015 far as Cali's court case and Uber been doing everything in their power to drag it on & not comply, I don't expect that to change

It's so much more "freedom" & less "stress" "aggravation" if you want to call it that knowing where you're going & what you'll make each trip, I won't have anymore resentment or spite, no feelings of revenge, no desire to piss pax off.... because they're not trying to trick & defraud me anymore

Maybe that's just me but most my grievances will be gone if idiots want $3-8 rides now that's their choice probably still illegal but they can't say they didn't know oh well it is what it is, just licking my chops till it's nationwide


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

troothequalstroll said:


> Most drivers will be content with this sad but true, once I get this info Im not spending as much energy on it that's for sure, I'll be too busy making $400+ a day driving people to the airport to care anymore & usually Uber takes stuff back so I'll be hitting it hard just in case
> 
> They'll have appeased me ill still be xl only that'll be drivers who drive for.60 a miles fight
> 
> ...


Yes these changes would be great. Uber would finally be what they've always purported to be, Craigslist for transportation. But why is Uber only finally doing this now? It's because of AB5. You'll notice that the changes Uber is proposing do not include drivers setting their own price, if that were allowed Uber wouldn't have a business and many other competitors would be able to set up the same type of Craigslist for transportation.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

i thought they would pull out of ca, but this change ensures they can't pass the abc test. well done.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Single Malt said:


> This is not small potatoes, this is the whole ballgame. If drivers know where the ride is going then no one is going to take the crappy 3 dollar rides to Walmart and Uber just lost half of their customer base.


They know the avg acceptance rate, each zip code
If the taxi driver declines too many, taxi driver will be benched for few hours&#128077;
After the benching, taxi driver will pick up at Walmart, Kmart, Dollar General and any other .99c store. If the taxi driver decides to decline this wonderful opportunity, back up taxi driver,who has incentives in his contract to do certain number of runs per week ,will be dispatched in his 2021YUKON, INFINITY, SUBURBAN or the 2025 TSLA CYBER TRUCK. Pax's will be protected by the bulletproof windows.&#128077;


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> Why ONLY CALIFORNIA !?!?


....because right now, only California has AB-5. New York City has something similar, but not quite. In addition, if they do show destinations in New York City, they might hear something from the TLC about it. Uber is more heavily regulated in New York City than other markets, but, Uber is not about to give up that market. Unlike in Texas, where Uber could pay off state legislators, it does understand that Albany, for years, has considered New York City something different from the rest of the state and has become loathe to interfere in what it would consider a local matter.

Uber did withdraw temporarily from Houston, which was also a large market, because it knew that it could buy a different set of legislators in Austin (which is why it also withdrew temporarily from Austin--it knew that all that it had to do was go up the street in Austin and buy some one else).



jocker12 said:


> They still need to reverse driver's rates back to 2015*early 2014* levels, otherwise all this is useless.


FIFY



Disgusted Driver said:


> My only regret is that they will get driver's who are dumb enough to give them ballot signatures to repeal AB5


The ants either can not or will not understand the underhand of the TNCs. They will sign the petition, AB-5 gets gutted or trashed, then, F*ub*a*r* yanks the showing of the destinations. They will spin it with the same "logic" that they used to spin the reduction of the number of destination filters from six to two: "our riders were not getting the good service to which they had become used...........". If the drivers try to go back to Sacramento to get another AB-5, Sacramento is going to tell them, at best, "make up your mind"; at worst: "you came to us; we gave you AB-6; then you told us that you did not want it. Go away".



jocker12 said:


> Where are the shills saying Uber will pull out of CA?


California's economy is what? ...the sixth, eighth, tenth largest in the world (or something like that)? Its economy is larger than that of most nations. It will never cease to amaze me that these shills will think that they can convince anyone that Uber will give up California. It is similar to why Uber suffers regulation in New York City. That market is just too large to relinquish, never mind the number of users from elsewhere who will not be happy if they can not use Uber in New York. It is a simple case of money's talking and everyone's knowing what that other thing does (anyone with half an ounce of brains, that is---(which excludes half of these Ubershills).



Single Malt said:


> Pax will end up putting in a destination 30 miles away and then try to change it when they get in. It's going to be a wild ride. Also I expect more competitors to enter the market.


........and no matter what way everything goes, it will create chaos. The results will make no one happy. As customers lie about or change destinations, there will be more kickouts. People will complain to Uber and the politicians. The result will be more regulation. You will get regulations against "refusing to haul". As it is, a TNC driver can boot a customer on a whim and face no regulatory consequences. He _might_ face consequences from the TNC (more likely from Gr*yft* than F*ub*a*r*), but, if you look at absolute numbers, the odds are heavily against it.

Conversely, a cab driver had better have a damned good reason for evicting a customer. He faces regulatory consequences as well as those from his company, as the courts and regulators have held cab companies responsible for the conduct of their drivers for years (in fact, both told the cab companies years back that they could no longer hide behind the "independent contractor" model).

The regulations will come that prohibit the TNCs from disclosing the destination until the customer boards and is ready to begin the trip. The regulations will dictate that the customer can change his destination at any time and that the driver will still be required to transport him. Said regulations also will specifically prohibit the practice of screening, which is prevalent at most airports as it is. The regulations will provide sanctions or require them from the TNCs for refusal to haul. As it is, Uber and Lyft both have stated policies against destination discrimination. It is simply a stated policy without any standards for determination. The Status Quo allows the TNCs to act, or not, as they see fit. That will change.

At some point, the cab drivers and companies will get from the politicians what they have wanted all along: the TNCs and their drivers will have to follow the same, or similar, rules that the cab companies and their drivers currently must follow.



Single Malt said:


> This is not small potatoes, this is the whole ballgame. If drivers know where the ride is going then no one is going to take the crappy 3 dollar rides to Walmart and Uber just lost half of their customer base.


There actually are some of us who like the short trips. The Wally Worlds are problematic only in that they involve time (READ: money) to load and schlepp groceries and merchandise, often without a tip. If the trips go uncovered, there will be surges that will make those trips suddenly attractive. Further, low rated customers will have difficulty, still, in getting a ride during the mild surges, as the low rating will be indicative of stinginess with the tip. This, of course, will make the customers unhappy and they will complain.

It could drive them back to the cabs, in the areas where you can get a cab at a grocery store. The funny thing is that for a cab driver, the groceries and short trips actually do pay. In the suburbs, they do not, but in the City, they do. In the Capital of Your Nation, there are many grocery stores in neighbourhoods where the cabs still work. The grocery stores in the outlying, residential neighbourhoods still will suffer, as they always have. It will bring back the "Courtesy Drivers", though.



dnlbaboof said:


> this is going to cause a lot of riders to claim racism if they cant get a ride home....they are going to phase this out and by the time were back to square 1 the dest filter will be gone, we'll end up w nothing......so well get this while dest filter is removed than theyll say too bad riders couldnt get rides so everything will be gone..........


While I do not necessarily agree with your "forget this" on showing the destination, everything that you have stated that I have left in the quote is not inaccurate. Ask me how I know this.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> And probably more than that, Most people who get the crappy $3.00 rides also take longer rides on occasion. If uber stops working for them 75% of the time uber just lost 100% of their business.


This is something that to this date, the cab drivers fail to understand and always have. The dispatchers and the companies understood it, but not the drivers. I have seen cab companies lose good regulars over failure to provide service. Even when as a dispatcher, I promised to back up a driver for chasing a regular who wanted a jerk-job, I could not always get it covered. In the neighbourhoods where one of my companies did not work, we would, at times, get airport time calls. You could get a driver to chase these. We had one regular who used to go the the airport at least once a week. About twice a month, his wife used to call a cab to go downtown. As it was not profitable to chase that job, you had a hard time getting it covered, as we rarely had anyone near her. Finally, he got tired of his wife's complaints, called the President of the Company and informed him that we would lose that airport call if we did not do a better job of covering his wife's call. Somebody blew it and we lost him.

You must take care of your regulars. If you do not, you will lose them. They are your bread and butter, because they always are there, even in the slow times.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> California's economy is what? ...the sixth, eighth, tenth largest in the world (or something like that)? Its economy is larger than that of most nations. It will never cease to amaze me that these shills will think that they can convince anyone that Uber will give up California. It is similar to why Uber suffers regulation in New York City. That market is just too large to relinquish, never mind the number of users from elsewhere who will not be happy if they can not use Uber in New York. It is a simple case of money's talking and everyone's knowing what that other thing does (anyone with half an ounce of brains, that is---(which excludes half of these Ubershills).


They're back with a different approach though - they try to convince "the eyes" here that Uber is promising drivers they will be able to set up their own rates, which is totally false (and impossible by the way), and they also want to convince the same "eyes" how, as long as this would supposedly be* the guarantee* of an "independent contractor" status for the drivers, people (including the drivers) should jump and support Uber to maintain this as opposed to having the gig economy workers support AB5 starting with January 1st.

Just look at it -
Complete false statement


Single Malt said:


> This will force fares to go up substantially.


Unsubstantiated claim


Single Malt said:


> If you can pick the rides you want and know where it's going *and can set your own price*, what else is there?


Assuring Uber PR messages


Single Malt said:


> actually treat drivers as real independent contractors.





Single Malt said:


> Don't see how Uber can square this circle. *Chickens have finally come home to roost.*


False assumption based on a previous Uber PR message


Single Malt said:


> If drivers are independent contractors then they need to be able to set their own price


False assumption again (under a different user account this time) meant to enforce previous false claims as a real conclusion


troothequalstroll said:


> Yes yes yes
> Means other states coming soon
> True independent contractor status


Even promoting a naive way of doing something Uber never said would allow


2starDriver said:


> Its not hard to set a rate that everyone (except riders they'll always be cheap) be happy.


Insulting statement (using generalization) meant to potentially frustrate readers into supporting Uber against AB5


troothequalstroll said:


> Now the dumb & desperate have a CHOICE for their dumb & desperate acceptance of a $3-8 fare lmao





troothequalstroll said:


> Drivers from other states should flood support & demand this


and


troothequalstroll said:


> Watch how efficient the system gets now *it'll be amazing flexibility for all*





troothequalstroll said:


> No strikes needed just demand this feature for all


Even creepy disgusting Uber millenial bro culture PR language


troothequalstroll said:


> My d just got hard lol


Presenting the false claim as a logical and unavoidable result of a potential legal complication


Single Malt said:


> The issue is setting the price, period. If drivers are independent contractors then how can these independent contractors all be charging the exact same fare? That's price fixing and Uber is being sued for price fixing as well.


An insulting comment meant to irritate readers into accepting the illusion that Uber really will allow individual rate-setting while they don't know how to use or take advantage of it.


troothequalstroll said:


> and idiots here set their prices lower than Uber lyfts I ish u not


The Uber message sent to California drivers clearly shows how individual driver price setting is NOT part of the TEMPORARY change ("Starting today and *through the early months of 2020*" - not forever).

It is comical to see all of this, but I think this discussion suddenly has a heavy Uber shill/troll problem.


----------



## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

AB5 is still going to screw you, Uber.

The changes are nothing but a step in a long hike through the park, I hope the other states are seeing "what it takes for them to make contracting right", expect the lawsuits to come pouring soon, Uber.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

jocker12 said:


> Just look at it -
> 
> Single Malt said:
> This will force fares to go up substantially.
> ...


........and even if it were not false, and the complaint is______________________________________?

Capitalism 101 dictates that the customer pay the cost of doing business. The TNCs will pay no heed to that when it comes to the drivers. They refuse to charge the customers the cost of providing the service plus a decent profit to the drivers. It is more like Chavista Socialism where the TNCs are forcing the drivers to operate on very thin profits, or in some cases, a loss. You just got one of our major subscribers to Chavista Socialism, Adrian Fenty. You can keep him.



jocker12 said:


> Assuring Uber PR messages


In other words, more of Uber's and Lyft's spin and lies. If this bill does sink, when it does, bet that both of them pull the destinations. They will put a spin on it similar to the one that they put on the reduction of destination filters: "customers were not getting their rides".

This is one reason why it is imperative that you California drivers *do not sign ANYTHING that Uber or Lyft asks you to sign, You must NOT click on any links and sign on line petitions. You MUST NOT show up for demonstations. You must NOT sign street petitions. You must NOT write to your state Assemblyman and Senator to urge them to sink this bill. *Finally, you *MUST vote to uphold AB-5* if it does get to a referendum.

I do not favour all of this government interference. Despite that, we have petitioned Uber and Lyft REPEATEDLY to stop the pay cuts and take aways. Their response always has been MORE pay cuts and MORE take aways. As Washington's Own @Nats121 always has put it, "AB-5 is the club needed to wake up these TNCs and compel them to treat us properly" (or words similar). Sadly, the only way to compel these rotten TNCs to treat us properly is to beat them into submission by whatever means that we can. If this stands in California, other parts of the country will take notice and act similarly. It will encourage the drivers elsewhere to push their leaders and these lousy TNCs to straighten up and fly right, or they will get similar.

STAY STRONG, California drivers. Get the word out to your fellow drivers. Talk to them on the streets, in the airport queues, on Twitter, let them know that *AB-5 MUST stand.*


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

jocker12 said:


> They're back with a different approach though - they try to convince "the eyes" here that Uber is promising drivers they will be able to set up their own rates, which is totally false (and impossible by the way), and they also want to convince the same "eyes" how, as long as this would supposedly be* the guarantee* of an "independent contractor" status for the drivers, people (including the drivers) should jump and support Uber to maintain this as opposed to having the gig economy workers support AB5 starting with January 1st.
> 
> Just look at it -
> Complete false statement
> ...


UNION REPRESENTATION AND INPUT ON IN HOUSE RATINGS, RULES & RATES IS UBERS ONLY HOPE.

DRIVERS ARE NOT " INDEPENDANT " UNTIL THEY HAVE INPUT !

THE FIX IS SIMPLE.

UNION


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## Projecthelpusall (Jul 8, 2019)

I’m in East Bay today and not seeing what they rolled out yesterday, no trip info or fare info? Called Uber and they said swipe up . Wrong . So they put a ticket in I guess. Anyone having this issue?


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

My bet is that this feature will not last. Once pax start complaining that they can't get a $4 pool ride from Walmart, they will take this feature away.

Case in point, back in 2017 they rolled out 6 DFs and in Boston they rolled out Drop-off preferences (where you could tell Uber to give you only rides where drop-offs are in a specific area). It was awesome because it let drivers have more control over the trips they were willing to take.

However pax soon complained that it took too long to get rides because all the smart drivers were setting filters to give them long trips. Not enough drivers willing to take the shorties. So after a month it was back to 2 DFs and Drop-off preferences went bye-bye.

I expect the same to happen here.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Get the word out to your fellow drivers.


They should pay attention to any change of Terms and Conditions in their apps, if this comes up. That is a moment when, facing the impossibility to go out on the road exactly when they are ready to do it, any person can make mistakes and hit agree only to be able go online (or back online).



tohunt4me said:


> UNION


Popcorn.


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## 2starDriver (Mar 22, 2019)

jazzapt said:


> My bet is that this feature will not last. Once pax start complaining that they can't get a $4 pool ride from Walmart, they will take this feature away.
> 
> Case in point, back in 2017 they rolled out 6 DFs and in Boston they rolled out Drop-off preferences (where you could tell Uber to give you only rides where drop-offs are in a specific area). It was awesome because it let drivers have more control over the trips they were willing to take.
> 
> ...


This is the most powerful thing to defend themselves for uber. To me still not enough more things will come up. This won't be yo-yo game cuz its cali not Austin. Not easy to quit even for one week.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> pax soon complained that it took too long to get rides


Did you actually talk to a rider that complained about this (they didn't know about drivers available features) or you just believed what Uber told the drivers?

If it's the latter, *why do you think Uber was telling the truth* in order to remove something that ultimately, if riders had difficulties in finding rides, was affecting the Uber system (but making smart drivers more money)?


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

jazzapt said:


> My bet is that this feature will not last. Once pax start complaining that they can't get a $4 pool ride from Walmart, they will take this feature away.
> 
> Case in point, back in 2017 they rolled out 6 DFs and in Boston they rolled out Drop-off preferences (where you could tell Uber to give you only rides where drop-offs are in a specific area). It was awesome because it let drivers have more control over the trips they were willing to take.
> 
> ...


This isn't 2017. AB5 is an existential threat. Uber is throwing everything they can against the wall hoping something sticks to try to stay alive in California.


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## Giantsfan1503 (Sep 18, 2019)

Mole said:


> View attachment 384248
> View attachment 384248


Have you ever heard of an independent contractor being held to an acceptance rate? As an independent contractor I should have the ability to turn down a job. I should be able to see how much i'll be making for the trip and how far it is. Now if I was an employee you can hold me to an acceptance rate. You can hide the job from me until the passenger gets in the car. Uber has gotten away with murder for all these years. Looks like its time to pay the piper.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> This isn't 2017. AB5 is an existential threat. Uber is throwing everything they can against the wall hoping something sticks to try to stay alive in California.


I hope you are right. But I guarantee you, if there is ever a situation that allows Uber to drop this experiment, they will in a heartbeat. This will lead to many stranded pax, which will not go over well.



jocker12 said:


> Did you actually talk to a rider that complained about this (they didn't know about drivers available features) or you just believed what Uber told the drivers?
> 
> If it's the latter, *why do you think Uber was telling the truth* in order to remove something that ultimately, if riders had difficulties in finding rides, was affecting the Uber system (but making smart drivers more money)?


Both actually. But I knew it wouldn't work long-term even before they dropped it because it is common sense. If I could always set my app to give me long rides, why would I bother accepting shorties? Most drivers want to make the most out of each ride. So why bother leaving yourself open to ones that don't pay much? And if multiple drivers are doing that, there will be people that will suffer as it will take longer to find a driver who isn't.

That said, they set up the "Drop-off preferences" to fail from the beginning because they made it unlimited and allowed it at the airport. Had they been more strategic about how you were allowed to use them and the 6 DFs, there wouldn't have been an issue. But instead of trying to fix them, they just took them away.


----------



## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

marathon_1 said:


> Got the same email. Looks like only in CA


they are only doing it because they're stuck in a corner by regulators over ab5 , they are not doing it voluntary and they're not doing it because they like drivers, But you still have to admire how they lie in drivers faces By telling us they're doing it because they heard our frustrations and they're doing this because they want to work with us.


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## 2starDriver (Mar 22, 2019)

Minimum has to be $10 up to 10 min / 2 mile. Don’t care how much uber charges pax uber should pay the difference then Nobody will get stranded.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

Nice new interactive earnings page just went up here in the last 30 minutes...


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

dnlbaboof said:


> SF is going to accept a east bay trip???


can I reverse that? I'm in East Bay and would accept an SFO trip. That's 60+ minutes, why the heck not. :roflmao:



Projecthelpusall said:


> Anyone having this issue?


me too. AR disappeared from the app, tho. But no extra info on ping. Article says by Jan full roll out to Calif drivers.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> set my app to give me long rides


I know what you are saying. However, by setting a destination you were not automatically getting long trips, but only trips towards that destination. That feature affected the Uber system because by choosing that, the drivers were avoiding going in random directions dictated by their riders and were forcing different moving patterns for their available cars.

Do you remember what rider's complaint was all about regarding the waiting time?


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

5☆OG said:


> Nice new interactive earnings page just went up here in the last 30 minutes...


lol 50 more trips to make $20 extra = YAY


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lol 50 more trips to make $20 extra = YAY


Yeah pretty sad. But my method makes more then if i did it their way. I think the top promo was 180.00 for 100 rides. This weekend is 180.00 for 80 rides. But that means i have to take a huge hit on avg ride in order to do it. I can make up that 180 doing it my way.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

jocker12 said:


> I know what you are saying. However, by setting a destination you were not automatically getting long trips, but only trips towards that destination. That feature affected the Uber system because by choosing that, the drivers were avoiding going in random directions dictated by their riders and were forcing different moving patterns for their available cars.
> 
> Do you remember what rider's complaint was all about regarding the waiting time?


That is true of the Destination Filter. But at the same time they were giving us 6 DFs, they also rolled out in Boston (and SF, the only other city I think) something called "Drop-off preferences". This allowed you to select from a list of neighborhoods in the Greater Boston area where you prefer drop-offs. It wasn't based on the direction of an address you wanted to go to. It was about where you wanted the drop-off location to be.

So, for example, if you were in Downtown Boston, you could select North Shore, and/or South Shore, and/or Metro West from the list. Uber would only give you rides where the drop-off was within one of those selected locations. This means you wouldn't get a ride where the person's drop-off was in Downtown Boston.

As you can see, it was easy to select areas where you knew it would be a long ride.

And they didn't cap how much you could use it. So I could be on the North Shore and select Boston, and I would get only rides going into the city. Then I could select Metro West, and I would only get a ride there. Then back to Boston. And I could do it all day.

Drivers were at they airport with their preference set to one of the suburbs and people were having trouble getting rides into the city since the airport is so close to it.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> That is true of the Destination Filter. But at the same time they were giving us 6 DFs, they also rolled out in Boston (and SF, the only other city I think) something called "Drop-off preferences". This allowed you to select from a list of neighborhoods in the Greater Boston area where you prefer drop-offs. It wasn't based on the direction of an address you wanted to go to. It was about where you wanted the drop-off location to be.
> 
> So, for example, if you were in Downtown Boston, you could select North Shore, and/or South Shore, and/or Metro West from the list. Uber would only give you rides where the drop-off was within one of those selected locations. This means you wouldn't get a ride where the person's drop-off was in Downtown Boston.
> 
> ...


Much appreciated!


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

The Jersey drivers and upstate New York drivers will love this. They will turn down anything that goes into New York City. I fhere is one thing that Jersey and Upstate drivers hate, it is something going into New York. North Bronx is tolerable, but, anything on the other side of Spuyten Duyvil Creek, the upstate boys do not want. The Jersey drivers do not want it if it goes anywhere in New York.



jazzapt said:


> they also rolled out in Boston (and SF, the only other city I think) something called "Drop-off preferences". This allowed you to select from a list of neighborhoods in the Greater Boston area where you prefer drop-offs. I
> 
> So, for example, if you were in Downtown Boston, you could select North Shore, and/or South Shore, and/or Metro West from the list. Uber would only give you rides where the drop-off was within one of those selected locations.


I did not know that you had that up there. That would be great for me. If I am in Boston and I am planning on working only a few hours more,, I really do not want to go to Quincy or Waltham. I want to head back toward Ipswich, so I would pick North Shore. Saugus would be tolerable as would Lynn or Haverhill. Salem, Beverly or Newburyport would be just fine. Topsfield, Boxford or Ipswich would be even better.

I do not live there, now, but Massachusetts is my home.

In the Capital of Your Nation, such a thing would generate alll sorts of complaints. People would set theirs for West of the City or across the Potomac. It would leave East of the Anacostia and Prince George's County, Maryland underserved. Do-gooders and busybodies are something of which we have an excess, here, so, the lawsuits would come quickly and frequently.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

dnlbaboof said:


> who driving in SF is going to accept a east bay trip??? this is going to cause a lot of riders to claim racism if they cant get a ride home....they are going to phase this out and by the time were back to square 1 the dest filter will be gone, we'll end up w nothing......so well get this while dest filter is removed than theyll say too bad riders couldnt get rides so everything will be gone..........just keep dest filter and add long trip warning for 30 plus minutes, forget this............


Yeah, I can see the email now.

_While we were excited to trial showing drivers the destination and estimated fare, we have found that this makes the service unreliable for drivers. Many of you have told us that you do not want this information on the request screen, so we will be removing it for you. Keep checking back, though, for more exciting new features to help you maximize your driving time!_


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Here is a story about this

https://mashable.com/article/uber-driver-california-changes-destination-discrimination/


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## Ovaro (Dec 18, 2018)

Any drivers in the Los Angeles area with these new features already?


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> Yes these changes would be great. Uber would finally be what they've always purported to be, Craigslist for transportation. But why is Uber only finally doing this now? It's because of AB5. You'll notice that the changes Uber is proposing do not include drivers setting their own price, if that were allowed Uber wouldn't have a business and many other competitors would be able to set up the same type of Craigslist for transportation.


Drivers setting their price would be a disaster. Wanna bet a lot of desperate ants go even lower than current rates once the slow season comes up. They'll screw it up for everyone else worse than what they have already


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

hulksmash said:


> Drivers setting their price would be a disaster. Wanna bet a lot of desperate ants go even lower than current rates once the slow season comes up. They'll screw it up for everyone else worse than what they have already


No it wouldn't. Is it a disaster when painting contractors all set their own price? Sidecar permitted drivers to set their own price until Uber and Lyft were allowed to use predatory pricing and price fixing to put them out of business. Regulators will also have no choice but to allow drivers to set their own price, otherwise what's the point of making Uber follow the law if they only have to follow some of the laws?


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Youburr said:


> View attachment 384264
> 
> LOL their example photo. 4.84 I would have to think twice about that character.


LOL Going to City Hall!

Easy decline. That's the problem inherit with this.



hulksmash said:


> Drivers setting their price would be a disaster. Wanna bet a lot of desperate ants go even lower than current rates once the slow season comes up. They'll screw it up for everyone else worse than what they have already


Never trust an ant.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> No it wouldn't. Is it a disaster when painting contractors all set their own price? Sidecar permitted drivers to set their own price until Uber and Lyft were allowed to use predatory pricing and price fixing to put them out of business. Regulators will also have no choice but to allow drivers to set their own price, otherwise what's the point of making Uber follow the law if they only have to follow some of the laws?


Most contractors are smart enough to know how much they need to charge in order to profit. Most Uber drivers are not. Sidecar last existed 4 years ago, at a time when no everyone and their mother were driving, like they are now, so there were better drivers who would price their ride accordingly. It would slow down the system if pax have to sort through a list of cars with different features just to get a quick ride, or to get out ASAP.

If there are so many ants willing to wait a long time for a 60c per mile ride, especially once the winter slump hits, how many do you think will do it for 30, 40, or 50 cents just to undercut their fellow drivers?


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

jocker12 said:


> Here is a story about this


Thank you for the article. It misses a few things, but, on the whole, it is not inaccurate. Ask me how I know this.

One thing that it misses, and, of which many drivers are unaware, is the legal doctrine of Disparate Impact. An oversimplified version of it is that if your business practices result in an adverse impact on a protected class, you can be held liable for discrimination against said class, even though you did not set out overtly and deliberately to discriminate.

If certain members of certain protected classes suddenly find that they are waiting longer for rides, are not getting them at all, or, are getting them only at prices higher than non-members of said class, they will have actionable cause. As California has an oversupply of busybodies and do-gooders similar to that of the Capital of Your Nation, someone will pick up on this and sue Uber. Uber, wishing to avoid the expense of a protracted legal battle, which this will be (ask me how I know this), will pay a few dollars and agree to end the practice.

Uber will not be able to hide behind the "independent contractor" on this one.

Consider, as well, that not only have several jurisdictions prohibited taxicab dispatch services from disclosing destinations for years, several of those same jurisdictions prohibit TNCs from doing the same.

If my experience is any indication, there will be widespread destination discrimination. Much of it will be economic.

Even I will discriminate economically. I do this, as it is. I routinely decline long trips, especially since the Uber implemented the Charlotte Surge. There are several factors that make long trips unprofitable. There is one particular place, in the Washington Metropolitan Area, that is a popular destination. It takes forever to get there. There are always problems when you get there. It take forever to get out of there. Uber pays next to nothing to go there. No one who goes there EVER tips; *EVER*. Anyone who goes there in my Uber/Lyft car gets an automatic one star. If I see that as a destination, it will be an automatic decline.

I would decline trips to Union Station Thursday, Friday and Sunday afternoons. It is a disaster there at those times. Most of my customers will not get out and walk across the circle. They insist that I go into the Circle of Death. Those also get an automatic one star.

To-day, we have the annual traffic disaster known as The Lighting of the National Christmas Tree. Usually, i drive the cab on Thursday; not to-day. I am taking the Uber/Lyft car and heading to the suburbs. If I could see the destinations, I would decline any trip headed into downtown Washington. If I get any trips to Downtown to-day, it will be an automatic one star.

Other drivers would discriminate due to economic as well as other factors.

Ask me how I know this.


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## Ovaro (Dec 18, 2018)

Single Malt said:


> Here's the problem Uber still faces from a legal standpoint. They are still setting the fares. If Uber implemented these changes and also allowed drivers to set their own price, then yes, drivers would be independent contractors. Uber hopes they don't have to go that far.


We shall see how AB5 will pave the way toward better conditions. I'm in LA and I can see how both Uber and Lyft are feeling the pressure from such bill. I have not driven for Uber since last week but I am looking forward these new features.


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

hulksmash said:


> Most contractors are smart enough to know how much they need to charge in order to profit. Most Uber drivers are not. Sidecar last existed 4 years ago, at a time when no everyone and their mother were driving, like they are now, so there were better drivers who would price their ride accordingly. It would slow down the system if pax have to sort through a list of cars with different features just to get a quick ride, or to get out ASAP.
> 
> If there are so many ants willing to wait a long time for a 60c per mile ride, especially once the winter slump hits, how many do you think will do it for 30, 40, or 50 cents just to undercut their fellow drivers?


How does the price for babysitting or lawncare or pool cleaning or everything else in the marketplace find its equilibrium? When there's a surge the rider sees the price and either accepts it or waits for the price to go down.

How is it a bad thing if the slow kids charge below market prices and exits the area with their ride leaving you to charge double? Isn't this precisely what's happening now with surge? Even an Uber driver is smart enough to figure out that if he's been sitting in the same spot for three days he might want to try adjusting his price.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> How does the price for babysitting or lawncare or pool cleaning or everything else in the marketplace find its equilibrium? When there's a surge the rider sees the price and either accepts it or waits for the price to go down.
> 
> How is it a bad thing if the slow kids charge below market prices and exits the area with their ride leaving you to charge double? Isn't this precisely what's happening now with surge? Even an Uber driver is smart enough to figure out that if he's been sitting in the same spot for three days he might want to try adjusting his price.


I would be all for it if Uber didn't continually saturate the marketplace with ants willing to drive for even less than what Uber pays. As bad as the pay is don't underestimate their ability to drive down prices even further, to where 60 cents will be considered premium rates.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I did not know that you had that up there. That would be great for me. If I am in Boston and I am planning on working only a few hours more,, I really do not want to go to Quincy or Waltham. I want to head back toward Ipswich, so I would pick North Shore. Saugus would be tolerable as would Lynn or Haverhill. Salem, Beverly or Newburyport would be just fine. Topsfield, Boxford or Ipswich would be even better.
> 
> I do not live there, now, but Massachusetts is my home.
> 
> In the Capital of Your Nation, such a thing would generate alll sorts of complaints. People would set theirs for West of the City or across the Potomac. It would leave East of the Anacostia and Prince George's County, Maryland underserved. Do-gooders and busybodies are something of which we have an excess, here, so, the lawsuits would come quickly and frequently.


Yeah we had it back in Aug 2017, at the same time they gave everyone 6 DFs during the "180 Days of Change" fiasco.

I live on the North Shore, so I would just set my Drop-Off preference to Boston at the start of my shift. It was wonderful knowing any ping I got would be a ride into Boston, Cambridge, or Brookline, exactly where I wanted to drive, instead of a DF where the ride could be going to Lynn and I have no idea if or when I will get another one that will get me closer.

And when I had to be back to the North Shore in time for my day job, I could not risk getting stuck on the South Shore. So I would select Boston, Metro West, and the North Shore. And I'd have piece of mind knowing I would not end up somewhere like Quincy or Braintree during rush hour.

But there was obvoius issues with it. For example, back in those days, the North Shore wasn't much of a hot-bed for Rideshare. So most drivers wanted to go into Boston where the action was. So if most were setting their preferences to Boston, it wasn't leaving many drivers available for local trips on the North Shore.

However, like I said, if they just put some restrictions on it instead of making in unlimited at all times, they could have found a way to make it work. Instead they just decided that it didn't and took it away.


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

hulksmash said:


> I would be all for it if Uber didn't continually saturate the marketplace with ants willing to drive for even less than what Uber pays. As bad as the pay is don't underestimate their ability to drive down prices even further, to where 60 cents will be considered premium rates.


How many times have drivers sat in a neon red surge for twenty minutes only to see it go poof? Drivers say Uber needs to raise the fares. No they don't. Uber has no business setting the fares, period. As it stands good drivers have no way to differentiate their service from all the ants uber is flooding the market with. There should be a minimum standard to entry, nice reliable car, background check, drug testing. Good drivers would be able to charge a premium due to high ratings, word of mouth and client base they are able to build up. Along with pictures of their car and rider testimonials on their private Uber page and their sales pitch on the page.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> I just got the email. California only, in a phased rollout starting today.
> 
> 1) Driver can now see the pickup and destination points, the trip duration and distance, the estimated fare... along with all the usual stuff, before accepting.
> 
> ...


I think Pro is a prerequisite for the best of those options.



Single Malt said:


> Not that easy. If drivers are independent contractors then they need to be able to set their own price and they need to see what the job is before accepting the job.


IC's work for the GC who is in control of all customer pricing. No GC is going to let an IC work with a customer until after a contract is in force



Single Malt said:


> Not that easy. If drivers are independent contractors then they need to be able to set their own price and they need to see what the job is before accepting the job.


IC's work for the GC who is in control of all customer pricing. No GC is going to let an IC work with a customer until after a contract is in force



Single Malt said:


> No, it won't take years. The shit is hitting the fan now. Uber is desperately trying to appease regulators in anyway they can in order to keep the lights on. Problem for Uber is they're trying to have it both ways.
> 
> "This has always been a simple case," said Andy Schmidt, the lawyer who filed the original federal district court action back in late 2015. "Uber wants to have it both ways." By "both ways" Schmidt is referring to Uber's argument that it simply has a platform that matches drivers to their clients (riders) while setting the prices for rides.
> "Uber says its drivers are independent actors. But Uber drivers do not compete against each other on price. When they surge prices, they do so in unison, something that could not happen without Uber's coordination," Schmidt told Motherboard. "Is that price-fixing? We think the answer is yes.
> ...


This is dumb. The IC's always compete for assignments. But the GC sets the customer terms


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Single Malt said:


> How many times have drivers sat in a neon red surge for twenty minutes only to see it go poof? Drivers say Uber needs to raise the fares. No they don't. Uber has no business setting the fares, period.


How much will you be investing in staffing customer support/service, cloud and server storage, all the legal crap in different markets, dealing with chargebacks and fraud, civil complaints, etc., etc.

Analogies to typical IC work aren't appropriate with this gig.

If you want to set you're own rates, you start your own company, build your own client list, handle your own billing, and on and on.

I'd probably be in favor of a floor rate per mile/per minute rate to stop further rate cuts, but that's about it.

Customers don't want to spend 10 minutes scrolling through offerings, picking drivers, finding out that they're an hour away, and then starting over again.

Even if they did, lowball offers would rule the roost the vast majority of the time, in much the same way that it can be very difficult to get decent paying gigs on sites like Upwork or Freelancer. It's been a while since I used those sites, but it was an issue.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

jocker12 said:


> Did you actually talk to a rider that complained about this (they didn't know about drivers available features) or you just believed what Uber told the drivers?
> 
> If it's the latter, *why do you think Uber was telling the truth* in order to remove something that ultimately, if riders had difficulties in finding rides, was affecting the Uber system (but making smart drivers more money)?


@jazzapt is correct. Veteran drivers in Boston could give seminars on the Uber tactics and strategies employed over the last few years. Some drivers, myself included, have spreadsheets with thousands of rides with the data run against the different compensation models employed. 
there are some smart drivers in the Boston forum that do not need to speculate about many issues discussed on UP. They have empirical data they use to make business decisions every day.

the Boston forum is not unique, but the Boston marketplace certainly is. With so many variables affecting business, Boston is a daily stress test for the algorithms.



jocker12 said:


> I know what you are saying. However, by setting a destination you were not automatically getting long trips, but only trips towards that destination. That feature affected the Uber system because by choosing that, the drivers were avoiding going in random directions dictated by their riders and were forcing different moving patterns for their available cars.
> 
> Do you remember what rider's complaint was all about regarding the waiting time?


I recall the 6DF's having a serious affect at Logan Airport. At the time, mileage rates were about $1 so drivers would skip pings until a +45minute request came in.


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

WAHN said:


> How much will you be investing in staffing customer support/service, cloud and server storage, all the legal crap in different markets, dealing with chargebacks and fraud, civil complaints, etc., etc.
> 
> Analogies to typical IC work aren't appropriate with this gig.
> 
> ...


Yes they are. Independent contractors more often than not are one in the same, working directly with the end customer. Uber doesn't say they're the general contractor, they say they're simply the facilitator, the middleman. Does Angie's List set prices for the contractors?


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Single Malt said:


> Yes they are. Independent contractors more often than not are one in the same, working directly with the end customer. Uber doesn't say they're the general contractor, they say they're simply the facilitator, the middleman.


The role of a GC *is* to facilitate. The GC is a middleman. The middle man sets the price because by definition , "the middleman is *in between *the other two parties.



Diamondraider said:


> The role of a GC *is* to facilitate. The GC is a middleman. The middle man sets the price because by definition , "the middleman is *in between *the other two parties.


In the case where the IC works directly with the customer, the IC must assume all legal and financial liability; risks previously assumed by the middleman, or GC


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Single Malt said:


> Does Angie's list set prices for the contractors?


I don't use Angie's list.

Do they bill the customers? Do they refund customers. Do they handle and resolve customer complaints? Do they deal with all the legalities in each city to make sure the contractor can work there?

Diamondraider's GC/IC analogy is much more realistic, even though we all know that Uber would deny that type of relationship. That's a different issue.


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## jlong105 (Sep 15, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I'd pass.
> 
> Rating is too low and 20 minutes is too far away (assuming i'm reading that as the time to get to the pickup?)
> 
> I can see all the $4.00 pings getting rejected ene masse after that goes into effect ROFL.


They are 7 minutes away for a 20 minute trip


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

Diamondraider said:


> The role of a GC *is* to facilitate. The GC is a middleman. The middle man sets the price because by definition , "the middleman is *in between *the other two parties.
> 
> 
> In the case where the IC works directly with the customer, the IC must assume all legal and financial liability; risks previously assumed by the middleman, or GC


Uber charges a fee to the drivers for the service they provide. In your scenario IC's compete with other IC's and the GC is the decision maker. GC's also compete with other GC's but Lyft and Uber have eliminated the competition because they're able to sell at a loss due to VC money.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Single Malt said:


> Yes they are. Independent contractors more often than not are one in the same, working directly with the end customer. Uber doesn't say they're the general contractor, they say they're simply the facilitator, the middleman. Does Angie's List set prices for the contractors?


Does Angie's List automatically refund the customer for a minor complaint? Does AL carry umbrella insurance for every trade? 
I don't know how AL gets compensation for transactions, but while appearing similar, the business model is fundamentally different


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## jlong105 (Sep 15, 2017)

If Uber does up front pricing and gives this much information, why do they not just give us an exact amount we'll make. That's a 25% difference in what the trip will pay.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Single Malt said:


> Uber charges a fee to the drivers for the service they provide. In your scenario IC's compete with other IC's and the GC is the decision maker. GC's also compete with other GC's but Lyft and Uber have eliminated the competition because they're able to sell at a loss due to VC money.


Uber hasn't used the "fee to driver" approach since 2017 when they implemented "up front pricing"



Diamondraider said:


> Uber hasn't used the "fee to driver" approach since 2017 when they implemented "up front pricing"


Uber sells a ride and hires an IC to execute said ride.


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

WAHN said:


> I don't use Angie's list.
> 
> Do they bill the customers? Do they refund customers. Do they handle and resolve customer complaints? Do they deal with all the legalities in each city to make sure the contractor can work there?
> 
> Diamondraider's GC/IC analogy is much more realistic, even though we all know that Uber would deny that type of relationship. That's a different issue. :smiles:


For the sake of argument let's use the IC/GC model. General Contractors have their guys/IC's for various jobs because they've used them in the past and know they can trust them. It's not just about price, even though it is with Uber.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Single Malt said:


> For the sake of argument let's use the IC/GC model. General Contractors have their guys/IC's for various jobs because they've used them in the past and know they can trust them. It's not just about price, even though it is with Uber.


That's just one more reason there is no perfect analogy to traditional IC work.


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

Diamondraider said:


> Does Angie's List automatically refund the customer for a minor complaint? Does AL carry umbrella insurance for every trade?
> I don't know how AL gets compensation for transactions, but while appearing similar, the business model is fundamentally different


Does Uber automatically refund the customer for a minor complaint even if the complaint was total bs and take the money back from the driver? Yes. Why, because Uber knows drivers are a dime a dozen and assigns zero value to them.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> What control? If you can pick the rides you want and know where it's going and can set your own price, what else is there? Other than ratings. This is Uber crying uncle. This is Uber throwing in the towel.


Ban on carrying guns, for one.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Diamondraider said:


> I recall the 6DF's having a serious affect at Logan Airport. At the time, mileage rates were about $1 so drivers would skip pings until a +45minute request came in.


When they put in the destination filter here, you could not use it at any airport. If you were going to work the airport yard, you had to take what came. In fact, if you put on the destination filter anywhere inside an airport geofence, a pop-up tells you to leave the airport to receive destination trips. These days, Uber's destination filter is useless, anyhow.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

This sets a bad precedent in case I as a passenger ever need a short ride and am refused if it becomes national.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Other drivers would discriminate due to economic as well as other factors.


and then there are drivers who will take what you reject. Thank god there are enough drivers, aye?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

SHalester said:


> and then there are drivers who will take what you reject.


That would be correct (ask me how I know this). The question is, though, would there be adequate drivers to take what many reject?



Lee239 said:


> This sets a bad precedent in case I as a passenger ever need a short ride and am refused if it becomes national.


There are those of us who prefer shorter trips. I do, especially since the Charlotte Surge. This also applies when I am trying to his a quota. It is too easy to get reamed on the longer trips, which is why I routinely reject them. I prefer the short and mediocre.


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## FormerTaxiDriver♧ (Apr 5, 2018)

Mole said:


> View attachment 384248
> View attachment 384248


They are learning from Doordash, because all the smart people are gone from Uber now!

GRABBING STRAWS


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> When they put in the destination filter here, you could not use it at any airport. If you were going to work the airport yard, you had to take what came. In fact, if you put on the destination filter anywhere inside an airport geofence, a pop-up tells you to leave the airport to receive destination trips. These days, Uber's destination filter is useless, anyhow.


True, if you dont use it to your advantage. It works 50%-75% of the time for me if I put in an arrival time and dont expect it to get me all the way to the destination everytime cuz it wont. Sometimes it takes you on a side trail for a p/u going all the way or part way to the destination. Sometimes you have to p/u and drop off a couple pax in between. It's a tool like anything else and has limitations that uber changes with the market.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Single Malt said:


> Good drivers would be able to charge a premium due to high ratings, word of mouth and client base they are able to build up. ...


I hear what you're saying and on the surface it seems fair enough, and while you and I might benefit from that, the problem with this scenario is that it is completely unacceptable to utilize ratings as a justification for an increase in fares due to racism and implicit bias against minorities in the rating process.

Listen I want to prosper as much as anyone but not at an unfair advantage over people lower on the racial pecking order than I am.

That is a thing that exists and has right now a financial impact on minority drivers, and what you suggest would make that financial impact even greater.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Diamondraider said:


> Does Angie's List automatically refund the customer for a minor complaint? Does AL carry umbrella insurance for every trade?
> I don't know how AL gets compensation for transactions, but while appearing similar, the business model is fundamentally different


That's the problem Uber is not being run like Angie's List. If they did they could end this PR nightmare with pax and drivers.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Single Malt said:


> Uber charges a fee to the drivers for the service they provide. In your scenario IC's compete with other IC's and the GC is the decision maker. GC's also compete with other GC's but Lyft and Uber have eliminated the competition because they're able to sell at a loss due to VC money.


Sounds a bit like price fixing doesn't it. A bas tard Ized form of it, but the elements are there for the charge. They're utilizing thier complete control of pay for their independent contractors to fix the price at lower than fair market for the service in an effort to eventually dominate the market.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Wonkytonk said:


> I hear what you're saying and on the surface it seems fair enough, and while you and I might benefit from that, the problem with this scenario is that it is completely unacceptable to utilize ratings as a justification for an increase in fares due to racism and implicit bias against minorities in the rating process.
> 
> Listen I want to prosper as much as anyone but not at an unfair advantage over people lower on the racial pecking order than I am.
> 
> That is a thing that exists and has right now a financial impact on minority drivers, and what you suggest would make that financial impact even greater.


It's not possible to remove racism or bias in a free society or prevent or inoculate people from discrimination, because the problem is with the human heart my friend. What will work the best to help reduce those ugly human traits is first of all freedom to choose. Secondly accountability. Make people own their good/bad/ugly choices and take full responsibility for them. Thirdly, let market forces prevail. Let people decide who they want to hire to drive them wherever. And, let the consumer decide who is worthy of their business and by attrition mediocre or rotten drivers will go away very quickly.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Elmo Burrito said:


> It's not possible to remove racism or bias in a free society or prevent or inoculate people from discrimination, because the problem is with the human heart my friend. What will work the best to help reduce those ugly human traits is first of all freedom to choose. Secondly accountability. Make people own their good/bad/ugly choices and take full responsibility for them. Thirdly, let market forces prevail. Let people decide who they want to hire to drive them wherever. And, let the consumer decide who is worthy of their business and by attrition mediocre or rotten drivers will go away very quickly.


I hear you.

The better move forward is to force the rideshare companies to pay a fair livable rate for each and every ride. It's really that simple. Pay cab rates or better. And yes they still can compete because they're minutes away. Convenience should always demand a premium, Uber and Lyft are giving it away for free. They need to stop that and charge the same rates given the option the only way cabs win is if they're right outside your front door.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Elmo Burrito said:


> It's not possible to remove racism or bias in a free society or prevent or inoculate people from discrimination, because the problem is with the human heart my friend. What will work the best to help reduce those ugly human traits is first of all freedom to choose. Secondly accountability. Make people own their good/bad/ugly choices and take full responsibility for them. Thirdly, let market forces prevail. Let people decide who they want to hire to drive them wherever. And, let the consumer decide who is worthy of their business and by attrition mediocre or rotten drivers will go away very quickly.


You should build a rideshare app and see how is this working for you.
A part time driver that does rideshare now and then has no clue about rates or even costs involved. As a GIG you want to simplify things not complicate them.

Transportation is not Angie. Part of transportation efficiency is the ability to move quickly without too much negotiation or even rate thinking. The process needs to be fast and transparent. You describe the opposite, which works, but not with rideshare.

Uber and Lyft have enough data to understand what drivers need but unfortunately, their model today is based on oppression and coercion.

Is typical millennial clueless business approach. Especially the Silicon Valley entitled millennials have no idea about psychology, efficiency and how to create a win-win environment.

Silicon Valley millennials only believe the technology will solve all the problems and replace the humans. 
And that is terribly wrong.


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## kbrown (Dec 3, 2015)

Mole said:


> View attachment 384248
> View attachment 384248


I don't like it.

So, they are going to do upfront pricing now? What if there is an event, like a football game, and it takes me 45 min to get my passenger through the crazy to get on the route home? With upfront pricing, they wouldn't take that into account anymore. Drivers would lose in those types of situations.

No thanks.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Wonkytonk said:


> I hear you.
> 
> The better move forward is to force the rideshare companies to pay a fair livable rate for each and every ride. It's really that simple. Pay cab rates or better. And yes they still can compete because they're minutes away. Convenience should always demand a premium, Uber and Lyft are giving it away for free. They need to stop that and charge the same rates given the option the only way cabs win is if they're right outside your front door.


But who is the enforcer? The government? or the people, the consumer? I trust the consumer and the free market more. I dont want the government involved any more than implementation of fair taxation with representation, providing a military, fire/police protection, and infrastructure. Protecting our contstitutional/bill of rights, and property rights. That's it! 
Let the willingly governed free people of the US and the free market decide the rest. As far as ride share is concerned, forcing gig workers to possess a valid driver's license, adequate insurance, and to be background checked to qualify for rideshare (including fingerprinting against FBI data base) is all the further government should be involved.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> When they put in the destination filter here, you could not use it at any airport. If you were going to work the airport yard, you had to take what came. In fact, if you put on the destination filter anywhere inside an airport geofence, a pop-up tells you to leave the airport to receive destination trips. These days, Uber's destination filter is useless, anyhow.


That's how it is now. But not for the brief time the 6DF's were active



Wonkytonk said:


> Sounds a bit like price fixing doesn't it. A bas tard Ized form of it, but the elements are there for the charge. They're utilizing thier complete control of pay for their independent contractors to fix the price at lower than fair market for the service in an effort to eventually dominate the market.


Imagine you want to build a home. You interview 2 GC's for a quote. Both prices are similar. You select one and then the workers come to complete the construction.

imagine you want to build a second home. BUT...the business model has changed. You still interview 2 GC's, but both say they have no control over the cost of construction. You must now meet with the IC's (plumber, carpenter, electrician, lansdscaper, engineer.

you ask the GC'swhy can't you get the quotes for me. GC responds, "that's the old way. I used to be compensated for that work, but the IC's felt they could earn more money if they deal directly with you"

imagine you are building a third house. The GC's tell you they will handle the IC's, but the price is variable because we pay them for time and materials on a Cost Plus basis (a la the old 20%/25% commission rates. You are not happy prices could change and blow you budget. 
THEN....a one GC says I will quote you a price and I will handle the IC's. You cost will not change unless there are unforeseen Factors. I will put theIC's on time and material pricing, BUT, I WILL MANAGE ALL ASPECTS OF THE TRANSACTION.

this last example is where we are today.



Wonkytonk said:


> Sounds a bit like price fixing doesn't it. A bas tard Ized form of it, but the elements are there for the charge. They're utilizing thier complete control of pay for their independent contractors to fix the price at lower than fair market for the service in an effort to eventually dominate the market.


If this is price fixing, then every retailer in the world is guilty. 
This is fixed pricing with variable costs controlled by Uber



kbrown said:


> I don't like it.
> 
> So, they are going to do upfront pricing now? What if there is an event, like a football game, and it takes me 45 min to get my passenger through the crazy to get on the route home? With upfront pricing, they wouldn't take that into account anymore. Drivers would lose in those types of situations.
> 
> No thanks.


Upfront pricing has be in effect since 2017.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Elmo Burrito said:


> But who is the enforcer? The government? or the people, the consumer? I trust the consumer and the free market more.


I'm sure you would, and I suspect you have every reason to believe that they would be fair to YOU. Consumers have racial bias, and display it both overtly, say by calling someone a n i g ... or quietly under the table by rating a 5 star minority driver a 3. This is reality. This is what happens. Ratings are subjective mostly full of racial bias, I would be glad if ratings actually worked in favor of actual service provided as opposed to racial bias in favor of non racial minorities.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

*Uber now tells us where we are going and how much.
straight to hell....on a rail*


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> would there be adequate drivers to take what many reject?


the paying customer will complain long and loud to Uber and then there will be changes (again). So for now Uber is happy there are plenty of drivers and plenty of NEW drivers.


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

jocker12 said:


> They still need to reverse driver's rates back to 2015 levels, otherwise all this is useless.


Uber and none of these app based gigs never talk about raising the drivers pay, Uber is not doing this out the kindness of there heart....For real.



Single Malt said:


> Here's the problem Uber still faces from a legal standpoint. They are still setting the fares. If Uber implemented these changes and also allowed drivers to set their own price, then yes, drivers would be independent contractors. Uber hopes they don't have to go that far.


Uber was forced to make changes to look they really want to help drivers, If Uber really wanted to help drivers they would stop trying to control drivers and let them be real independent contractors.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

SHalester said:


> the paying customer will complain long and loud to Uber and then there will be changes (again). So for now Uber is happy there are plenty of drivers and plenty of NEW drivers.


If they're not paying least $10 & I'm not getting least $10 they are NOT paying customers, they are using an app to steal from me & Uber Lyft is subsidizing their ride at 41% predatory rate no real business can compete with. As an "independent business owner" like dara the CEO calls me I have the right not to run my business at a loss & to the details of my contract so I can do due diligence on whether the contract is acceptable & legal, if it is not, it is in breach & I cannot be bound to it or punished for ignoring OR cancelling it per basic contract law, the 13th amendment, & article 23 of international human rights all which supercedes Uber lyfts terms or service. I cannot agree to contracts with illegal terms that require free labor or that pay me below minimum wage after my costs of $4 per ride or $10 per hour to operate my vehicle in which I have documents & evidence to verify. And since my xl only vehicle is fully depreciated gets 22mpg with 240K miles and a blue book less than 3K other drivers have the same costs some maybe cheaper but will average $2-4 per ride.

It is not my fault Uber Lyft think these costs don't exist & choose to run their business at a loss and market to people that can't afford my service.

Their top 5 markets of la, ny, San Francisco, London, Brazil already are now heavily regulated due to their crimes those markets have 10-30 million people and can keep getting new drivers although quality of them will continue to worsen but every other market with less than 5 million people in entire states are and will start to run out of idiots to churn thru

If the Chicago report is true & 30-50% of "customers" are pool & Uber is only doing 4 million rides per day(which I always thought was 20 million) they are doomed you can't in any universe support the 10,000+ employees & hundreds of millions of dollars in salaries, sq feet of expensive real estate when half your user base can't afford a scooter nevermind a car.

So the market is only around 2 million PAYING customers per day if they only profit $1 per ride from PAYING customers that's 2 million per day it would take 2 months just to cover the CEO & CFOs salaries lmao

These "companies" are dead men walking so to speak no wonder they keep coming up with ridiculous ideas


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## Phil Lee (Apr 29, 2019)

Transitioning to a model where driver partners set the prices they were willing to accept would make it more aligned with how a market works, dynamic bid and ask. Right now Uber is losing money, they lost over $20 billion from when they were funded by venture capital and appear to be headed on a race to the bottom. If they don’t do transportation and market information to subscribers instead, then the whole idea that currently exists around a transportation network company has to be re-thought to be an information broker.

This would appeal to people that believe markets solve problems based on information. Also appeal to people that optimize on the profit on a single ride.

As opposed to a simple reject and decline.

I can’t imagine any AI that works perfectly, but it does have more predictive information than is currently being shared and can predict the next ride. If the loop does not close, then a deadhead occurs.

In other words does a zone change make sense as positioning move for a series, while the ride itself requires more expenses?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

troothequalstroll said:


> Uber Lyft think these costs don't exist & choose to run their*my* business at a loss and market to people that can't afford my service.


FIFY


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

SHalester said:


> the paying customer will complain long and loud to Uber and then there will be changes (again). So for now Uber is happy there are plenty of drivers and plenty of NEW drivers.


You're probably right, but eventually Uber will figure out all of that BS goes away when they start paying more. It's pretty simple really. I suppose what needs to happen is that it needs to get really expensive for Uber not to pay drivers well.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

troothequalstroll said:


> they are using an app to steal from me


the paying customer? Or Uber? Bottom line each day you go 'online' you agree to the TOS and fare schedule. The paying customer merely wants a ride; they paid for a service. They don't care who is getting what share of the what they pay. They care what they paid is reasonable for them. And based on the 3-5m rides per day at least Uber is keeping the PAYING customer more happy than not. Whether drivers are happy is an open question and this forum is in no way representative of the driver population.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

SHalester said:


> prime example why moderators should not post AS moderators. Makes this forum very unique in doing that.......
> 
> 
> the paying customer? Or Uber? Bottom line each day you go 'online' you agree to the TOS and fare schedule. The paying customer merely wants a ride; they paid for a service. They don't care who is getting what share of the what they pay. They care what they paid is reasonable for them. And based on the 3-5m rides per day at least Uber is keeping the PAYING customer more happy than not. Whether drivers are happy is an open question and this forum is in no way representative of the driver population.


CANT AGREE TO ILLEGAL TERMS IN CONTRACTS OR AGREEMENTS OR TERMS OF SERVICE if it requires free labor ($4 gross) it is in BREACH and null & void, that's why they're blank & hide all the details needed for due diligence per your rights, to trick, coerce, manipulate, defraud you into working for free. Blank contracts are also non binding Periodt. Some know how to excercise their rights others are dumb or desperate and operate in duress which is illegal it's called HUMAN TRAFFICKING.

No one chooses to work for $3 an hour or a McChicken net per trip they are being exploited dumb & desperate still have human & constitutional rights

That's why they're being forced to show details in Cali & for eats and eventually nationwide it's why they are being regulated in their bigges markets because they are nothing but organized crime

None of the coward criminals at Uber Lyft or any logical ethical human for that matter would look you in the eye face to face and say " here's $1 or less net deliver me or this taco I hand you 1-10 miles" lmao they would get laughed at, spit on, knocked the ef out or worse so they hide behind an app & do it 2+ million times per day out of 4+ million trips.

They use an app instead of a gun to rob millions of $1-5 and apparently it's legal because they are bribing the FBI & labor department from the skim

x or pool(I'm opted out) riders that don't tip KNOW exactly what they are doing (using an app to steal from strangers) that's why I've 1 starred & unmatched from EVERYONE in the last 4+ years

Just how they don't care what I'm paid I don't care what they paid. They are losers at life that don't even have friends or family that will give them rides anymore for gas money, they can't afford a scooter nevermind a car, something a 16 year old can hustle up in a few months, have multiple DUIs, license suspended or whatever the ef, they can't even figure out how to get a few miles without an app, I don't share oxygen or my ride with these human pieces of trash more than once if they don't cash tip & didn't go 10+ miles, no one over 21 should be ordering friggin taco Bell, Burger King, McDonalds, Sonic, Wendy's, or any fast food delivered how moronic I do not want to associate with such people seriously wtf who actually does that unless you're a high, drunk teenager paying 5 McChickens to get 1 delivered? Cuz that SHOULD be the minimum tip for delivery in 2020 I was dropping that in the 90s for pizza 2-5 but wait they don't even tip from what I hear, I wish I would deliver a taco somewhere & not get a tip they'd be getting all types of unwanted deliveries late at night, if a house with a driveway I'd be losing nails Everytime I drove by lol

Do you I don't want "customers" who can't afford my service. You're not supposed to take cabs everywhere for a reason it's not in 90+% of the populations budget lol, I don't want to associate with "adults" who don't own cars, I stopped that when I was 16 they can't do nothing for me accept use me for mine. If an Uber Lyft driver at $3 am hour can afford one what's their major malfunction?

Half of Uber lyfts "customers" can't afford the service, it's a Ponzi scam / human trafficking app i.e. organized crime nothing more nothing less as soon as actual costs are charged POOF there goes more than half of the riders. Back to the bus

Poor people are poor not stupid well some are lol but they know exactly what they are doing on their 2+ banned account with a fake name


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I can see all the $4.00 pings getting rejected ene masse after that goes into effect ROFL.


Call me cynical but I'm guessing they're counting on it, will keep assiduous records on the decline rate and and at some point present numbers that show drivers are discriminating against certain sets of pax, mainly short runs like the bar runs I used to get which every community wants handled because it's better than a drunk driving incident, and the poor which in many markets includes a lot of minority communities. How communities respond is anyone's guess but I'm guessing Uber and Lyft are counting on Rideshare company friendly legislation forcing drivers into actions drivers won't like, like taking rides they don't want.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Elmo Burrito said:


> True, if you dont use it to your advantage. It works 50%-75% of the time for me if I put in an arrival time and dont expect it to get me all the way to the destination everytime cuz it wont. Sometimes it takes you on a side trail for a p/u going all the way or part way to the destination. Sometimes you have to p/u and drop off a couple pax in between. It's a tool


I use it as a tool. If it is about an hour before I am ready to quit and I am far off, I set it and it used to work well. At times, I would get three of four trips out of it. The first three took me part of the way; each one a bit closer. The fourth usually got me almost there, there, or just a bit beyond it. If I were in the City, I would set it and get one (I live in the City) that took me close.

These days, I will set it for close to where I live and it will send me to the suburbs, even a suburb far to the south and west (I live in the northeastern part of the city). If I set it for a suburb to the north and west, it will give me a job to a suburb to the south and east. It defines locals as within the parameters, even if the local takes me eight blocks in the direction opposite to where I want to go.

I never expected it to get me right to the destination every time. I already understood the purpose. How did I understand it even before Uber or Lyft introduced it? Simple: I used to do real dispatch of taxis. At times, especially if I were busy, a driver would ask me a question such as "I have to be in____________ at _______________. Can I run anything that you have?" If he were on Capitol Hill and had to be in a neighbourhood on the west side of the City, say near American U, if I had something going downtown or to Embassy Row, I could give it to him. If it were going to National Airport, it would take him out of his way. If it were a local, but going several blocks further east, I could ask him if he thought that he had the time.

Yes, I understand it. My complaint about it is that it will send me to the suburbs when I am trying to get somewhere in the City. It will send me in a direction opposite to, or, nowhere close and out of the way from, where I want to go.


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## kbrown (Dec 3, 2015)

Diamondraider said:


> That's how it is now. But not for the brief time the 6DF's were active
> 
> 
> Imagine you want to build a home. You interview 2 GC's for a quote. Both prices are similar. You select one and then the workers come to complete the construction.
> ...


Not like what I menstioned. Austrslia's upfront pricing means even if they longbaul, they still won't get extra. Here in the US, if we longhaul, we're paid for the extra mileage. Big difference.


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## Jst1dreamr (Apr 25, 2019)

jocker12 said:


> Where are the shills saying Uber will pull out of CA?


Uber will never pull out of California. Every other car on the road has an uber sticker in the window, that is why there is no good money to be made here.


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## Ozzone (Feb 23, 2019)

Single Malt said:


> Here's the problem Uber still faces from a legal standpoint. They are still setting the fares. If Uber implemented these changes and also allowed drivers to set their own price, then yes, drivers would be independent contractors. Uber hopes they don't have to go that far.


No offense single malt but that what you said isn't entirely true. Just because Uber sets the fares doesn't mean drivers aren't independent contractors. However, think about the reverse for a second, which you imply qualifies, that drivers get to set their own price. Uber can simply refuse it and accept drivers that will accept their price. If Uber decides that they aren't going to pay anymore than what you are asking, they will go to the next driver. They will also, without any explanation necessary, terminate your contract.

I'm not trying to defend Uber in any way, but in this case they will have the legal right to refuse to use you as a driver if they feel they can't afford you. Is it right? No. Is it legal, Yes unfortunately.

However, two things. First they should have been doing this (showing destination and estimated fare) all along. The fact they are only doing the CA market clearly indicates they aren't doing this willingly and any attempt to pretend they are doing it for the driver's benefit is a joke.

Secondly, making drivers employees will completely bypass the "negotiation" between Uber and the driver. In other words, Uber will be forced to set the price (you can guarantee it will be the absolute minimum wage) and the employee will only get minimum wage as long as he continues driving forever.

Lastly I want to add that if Uber and Lyft are forced to make drivers employees, most of their drivers will leave (my opinion) because the most important reason they do it is the freedom and flexibility of the job. That will disappear if Uber and Lyft start determining when drivers will work and where they will work.


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## MACS77 (Dec 1, 2019)

Mole said:


> View attachment 384248
> View attachment 384248


Is this in America?


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## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

MACS77 said:


> Is this in America?


No , it's in California


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Man, after that post I hope you feel better.


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## JMlyftuber (Feb 24, 2018)

Single Malt said:


> Here's the problem Uber still faces from a legal standpoint. They are still setting the fares. If Uber implemented these changes and also allowed drivers to set their own price, then yes, drivers would be independent contractors. Uber hopes they don't have to go that far.


My new agreement said I can set lower fares if I wish, but doesn't explain how to do it. Does that count? &#128579;


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

New year so do you cali drivers all have the ability to see how much the ride is b4 accepting?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

RideshareDog said:


> New year so do you cali drivers all have the ability to see how much the ride is b4 accepting?


not yet. but mid Jan Uber stated.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> Not that easy. If drivers are independent contractors then they need to be able to set their own price and they need to see what the job is before accepting the job.


Back with the old surge model, drivers could effectively set their own price. They could just not accept trips until the surge was high enough.

With the new surge caps it doesn't really work that way though.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

JMlyftuber said:


> My new agreement said I can set lower fares if I wish, but doesn't explain how to do it. Does that count? &#128579;


If they let drivers set rate there still needs to be a regulated minimum, an app already tried that & I kid you not there were drivers setting them lower than Ubers till it failed within a year...

There are lots of math flunkies & people willing to drive for $3-8 a trip when that's a guarantee way to fail

Details & then regulated minimums seems to be where it's headed

Details should end the cancellation and shuffle issues no algos needed it'll bounce to most likely to fail or headed that way ef it...


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## 7Miles (Dec 17, 2014)

Hey, it’s Uber . Quick question. I have a customer going 10 miles . I know it’s normally $17 but would you do it for $5 ? I have Pedro and Lola ready to accept it. You have 7 seconds.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Let Pedro or Lola accept it, then^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

All I have to say is this new tool is awesome.


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Single Malt said:


> This is all about AB5 and a huge Hail Mary by Uber. Uber came kicking and screaming into this and had no choice. This will force fares to go up substantially. Who's going to take a 4 dollar fare from the airport? Pax will end up putting in a destination 30 miles away and then try to change it when they get in. It's going to be a wild ride. Also I expect more competitors to enter the market.


There will be no option to change destination without penalties !


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

Mole said:


> All I have to say is this new tool is awesome.


Nationwide preety please

Congrats on receiving a slice of your human rights back I'm jelly


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