# Uber to disclose to Drivers how much Riders were charged for each trip



## Bean (Sep 24, 2016)

I got an email, maybe everyone did, about a new version of the driver app being released by May 21st.

Of note,
_"Fare details, including what the rider paid and Uber's service fee, can be viewed by tapping "Fare Details" on the trip receipt."_

Followed later by,
_"As part of our effort to make earnings straightforward and easy to understand, we're also updating our driver partner agreement. These changes reflect that there are times when what a rider pays may be higher or lower than what you earn for a trip. Separating rider payments from driver fares allows us to keep your rates consistent, while offering new ride options like subscriptions."_

If they're making us sign a new agreement. It makes me wonder what was wrong with the old agreement.
I'm sure many people would argue that we previously agreed to be paid based on what the rider paid. I could see a class action happening that covered the time that up-front pricing went into effect up until May 21st of this year..


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Bean said:


> I got an email, maybe everyone did, about a new version of the driver app being released by May 21st.
> 
> Of note,
> _"Fare details, including what the rider paid and Uber's service fee, can be viewed by tapping "Fare Details" on the trip receipt."_
> ...


They got sued.
Uber makes no " Efforts towards Anything" without being forced.
Bunch of Snakes !



Bean said:


> I got an email, maybe everyone did, about a new version of the driver app being released by May 21st.
> 
> Of note,
> _"Fare details, including what the rider paid and Uber's service fee, can be viewed by tapping "Fare Details" on the trip receipt."_
> ...


A " New ( FORCED")' agreement' " means Uber has devised a " New" way to SCREW YOU !
NO NEED TO TIP !

LOWER RATES MEANS MORE MONEY !


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Um, yeah. A bunch of folks were arguing that up front pricing was legal in the old agreement after 2 different law suits wqere filed against them. Apparently Uber is concerned so they closed that loophole. I'm guessing that means they know they were stealing and are doing a CYA going forward. 

Makes me glad I'm on vacation for a few weeks, just don't have the urge to turn the app on in the evenings or weekend, oh well. I guess if I need the money I can always panhandle, the hourly rate for begging has to be higher.


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## aJoe (May 17, 2017)

Bean said:


> I got an email, maybe everyone did, about a new version of the driver app being released by May 21st.
> 
> Of note,
> _"Fare details, including what the rider paid and Uber's service fee, can be viewed by tapping "Fare Details" on the trip receipt."_
> ...


You are wrong or got a different notice than I did. They will never tell you how much they charged the pax, You would be able to see how much they are stealing from you and the pax.

All it is, is that they will break down how much YOU were paid by mile and per minute for each ride.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Um, yeah. A bunch of folks were arguing that up front pricing was legal in the old agreement after 2 different law suits wqere filed against them. Apparently Uber is concerned so they closed that loophole. I'm guessing that means they know they were stealing and are doing a CYA going forward.
> 
> Makes me glad I'm on vacation for a few weeks, just don't have the urge to turn the app on in the evenings or weekend, oh well. I guess if I need the money I can always panhandle, the hourly rate for begging has to be higher.


Uber.
Fix it till its broke.

UNSUSTAINABLE !!!

I guess its time for " UBER KITTENS IN FLYING CARS" to aide in covering tbe stench of corruption !



aJoe said:


> You are wrong or got a different notice than I did. They will never tell you how much they charged the pax, You would be able to see how much they are stealing from you and the pax.
> 
> All it is, is that they will break down how much YOU were paid by mile and per minute for each ride.


Useless.
Uber titts on a Bull !


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

So all this makes me wonder, has Uber been shafting it's partners in other ways? Are they basing the pax fare on a 1.5 surge and only paying you on a 1.3 surge sometimes? Aside from upfront pricing, how else were (ARE) they screwing drivers?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> So all this makes me wonder, has Uber been shafting it's partners in other ways? Are they basing the pax fare on a 1.5 surge and only paying you on a 1.3 surge sometimes? Aside from upfront pricing, how else were (ARE) they screwing drivers?


Time for a FEDERAL INVESTIGATION and CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS.

MEANWHILE, DRIVERS MUST UNIONIZE !


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## aJoe (May 17, 2017)

Bean said:


> I got an email, maybe everyone did, about a new version of the driver app being released by May 21st.
> 
> Of note,
> _"Fare details, including *what the rider paid* and Uber's service fee, can be viewed by tapping "Fare Details" on the trip receipt."_
> ...


Do you have a screen shot of that my email does not say that.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

The updated agreement says you can't complain anymore about the discrepancy between what we charge the pax and what we pay the driver. This is not materially different than the previous contract. It was a serious stretch of logic to interpret the previous contract to come to the conclusion that the driver got a straight % of the total fare charged to the pax.


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## Tese (Jan 16, 2017)




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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

We do not have to follow their new terms. Per the driver agreement:

_"If Uber changes these Terms after the date you first agreed to the Terms (or to any subsequent changes to these Terms), *you may reject any such change by providing Uber written notice of such rejection within 30 days of the date such change became effective, as indicated in the "Effective" date above.* This written notice must be provided either (a) by mail or hand delivery to our registered agent for service of process, c/o Uber USA, LLC (the name and current contact information for the registered agent in each state are available online here), or (b) by email from the email address associated with your Account to: [email protected]. In order to be effective, the notice must include your full name and clearly indicate your intent to reject changes to these Terms. By rejecting changes, you are agreeing that you will continue to be bound by the provisions of these Terms as of the date you first agreed to the Terms (or to any subsequent changes to these Terms)."_

Consult an attorney, of course, since I am not one and am just reading through this stuff like everyone else. Seems like it would be a good idea to reject the May 21st changes in order to be compensated the difference in fares one day when the inevitable Uber-driver-class-action-lawsuit on all this is settled.


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## Skinny1 (Sep 24, 2015)

Folks.... they are also going to start basing what they take from a driver based on their data.

They can see which drivers are desperate and will adjust the deal based on that make no doubt about it. Just like I was driving last weekend at 1.4x.... because hey knew I wasn't driving at their regular rates, it's now 1.2.

Something stinks that they can pick and chose pricing , based on demographic..... and now what they will take from a driver ( based on much of a sucker you are).

Shady


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

Skinny1 said:


> Folks.... they are also going to start basing what they take from a driver based on their data.
> 
> They can see which drivers are desperate and will adjust the deal based on that make no doubt about it. Just like I was driving last weekend at 1.4x.... because hey knew I wasn't driving at their regular rates, it's now 1.2.
> 
> ...


They've been doing that. The longer you drive, the lower the boost, if any. The promotions that are offered when you first start to drive all but go away after awhile.


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## aJoe (May 17, 2017)

Lelekm said:


> We do not have to follow their new terms. Per the driver agreement:
> 
> _"If Uber changes these Terms after the date you first agreed to the Terms (or to any subsequent changes to these Terms), *you may reject any such change by providing Uber written notice of such rejection within 30 days of the date such change became effective, as indicated in the "Effective" date above.* This written notice must be provided either (a) by mail or hand delivery to our registered agent for service of process, c/o Uber USA, LLC (the name and current contact information for the registered agent in each state are available online here), or (b) by email from the email address associated with your Account to: [email protected]. In order to be effective, the notice must include your full name and clearly indicate your intent to reject changes to these Terms. By rejecting changes, you are agreeing that you will continue to be bound by the provisions of these Terms as of the date you first agreed to the Terms (or to any subsequent changes to these Terms)."_
> 
> Consult an attorney, of course, since I am not one and am just reading through this stuff like everyone else. Seems like it would be a good idea to reject the May 21st changes in order to be compensated the difference in fares one day when the inevitable Uber-driver-class-action-lawsuit on all this is settled.


I'm going to do this exactly because I quit anyway so I don't really care if they don't give me any more rides, but I am not agreeing that they should continue to rip off pax and pay us less.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> So all this makes me wonder, has Uber been shafting it's partners in other ways? Are they basing the pax fare on a 1.5 surge and only paying you on a 1.3 surge sometimes? Aside from upfront pricing, how else were (ARE) they screwing drivers?


I would not be surprised at all, of course, if that's what they were doing.

The purpose of Uber is to generate as much money as they can while forwarding as little as possible back to the partners.


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## Skinny1 (Sep 24, 2015)

Perhaps we wait with Pax and see what we were paid. Add back Uber cut and tell Pax that if they paid any more than that rate Uber is taking advantage.

I can see many more 5 star ratings, and more customer service calls.... whose in?


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

The cynic in me thinks this is just all about legally declaring that they can charge the passenger $100 for the trip and only pay you $20.

Already here I see Uber charge passengers $6.20 for a minimum fare when I only get $3 (under 50%).

I wonder if this could somehow help to classify us as employees since we are no longer getting a straight percentage...of course not because the system is stacked against the little guy.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

touberornottouber said:


> The cynic in me thinks this is just all about legally declaring that they can charge the passenger $100 for the trip and only pay you $20.
> 
> Already here I see Uber charge passengers $6.20 for a minimum fare when I only get $3 (under 50%).
> 
> I wonder if this could somehow help to classify us as employs...of course not because the system is stacked against the little guy.


If Uber can shake down the passenger for $200 and you are willing to accept a $5 for the trip, that would be okel dokel with them.

The idea in business is to maximize incoming revenues (fares) and minimize ongoing expenses ( payments to partners).

You don't have to accept any fare , of course, for any reason or no reason at all- with the exception of course that you don't want to discriminate against someone because of their race or ethnicity or sex.


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

The idea in business is to make a profit, which Uber isn't making.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> You don't have to accept any fare , of course, for any reason or no reason at all- with the exception of course that you don't want to discriminate against someone because of their race or ethnicity or sex.


The problem is I am NOT given the destination or the amount to be charged for the fare prior to accepting.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> If Uber can shake down the passenger for $200 and you are willing to accept a $5 for the trip, that would be okel dokel with them.
> 
> The idea in business is to maximize incoming revenues (fares) and minimize ongoing expenses ( payments to partners).
> 
> You don't have to accept any fare , of course, for any reason or no reason at all- with the exception of course that you don't want to discriminate against someone because of their race or ethnicity or sex.





Skinny1 said:


> Folks.... they are also going to start basing what they take from a driver based on their data.
> 
> They can see which drivers are desperate and will adjust the deal based on that make no doubt about it. Just like I was driving last weekend at 1.4x.... because hey knew I wasn't driving at their regular rates, it's now 1.2.
> 
> ...


The "free" market is at work here. Okay not so free in all markets, otherwise I could start my own cab company to compete with Uber and I cannot due to burdensome regulations...

But in any case, there are market forces at work.

Undoubtedly Uber does indeed seek to maximize revenues and minimize expenses as you say... I wouldn't be surprised if they use algorithms to charge sucker customers more or pay sucker drivers less.

But ultimately, as drivers we should seek to drive for whoever pays best. If Lyft is not in collusion with Uber, and especially if there are other competitors, then in theory there should be a tendency for drivers to switch to the better paying service, and that should result in a net increase in driver cut of the revenue over time no matter what shenanigans the companies pull.

Whether Uber takes 40% or 90% of the revenue is less important to the driver in sticking with that company than whether the driver makes a profit after expenses per hour that is higher or lower than Lyft and other competitors. If Uber can charge a customer $200 and pay the driver $5, that may work for a little while. But in the long run it will fail because it opens the doors for competitors to charge $190 and pay the driver $10 which will steal the drivers and riders if the drivers and riders actually compare the real costs and profits.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> But ultimately, as drivers we should seek to drive for whoever pays best. If Lyft is not in collusion with Uber, and especially if there are other competitors, then in theory there should be a tendency for drivers to switch to the better paying service, and that should result in a net increase in driver cut of the revenue over time no matter what shenanigans the companies pull.


The problem with drivers switching to lyft or another ride sharing concern is that Lyft doesn't have the high numbers of passengers using their app.

A driver can elect to drive only for Lyft, of course, but if the riders aren't there, it doesn't do them that much good


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> The problem with drivers switching to lyft or another ride sharing concern is that Lyft doesn't have the high numbers of passengers using their app.
> 
> A driver can elect to drive only for Lyft, of course, but if the riders aren't there, it doesn't do them that much good


In my area when I started with Lyft in February Lyft rides were very rare, but they pay better. I've been handing out Lyft invite cards for a substantial portion of my Uber rides. I imagine other local drivers have been doing the same. When I started in February seeing Lyft cars on the road was also somewhat rare whereas now it seems at least half of the Uber drivers are also Lyft drivers.

My ratio of Lyft rides to Uber has been increasing. ASSUMING Lyft is paying better than Uber in your market, you need not actually stop using Uber altogether. Just use Lyft preferentially when you can and spread the word to passengers. In the long run your pay will increase either as Lyft gains market share or Uber caves and pays competitively.

There are likely 2 possible reasons why there are less Lyft passengers. Either Lyft charges the passengers more, or people are unaware of Lyft. There is nothing we can do about the first problem but we can all give Lyft a little free advertisement and sway riders their way if the second issue is the main problem. At least in my market, I believe Lyft is cheaper for the passenger due to a lack of up front fee (assuming no unexpected traffic jams or bad navigating Lyft drivers)

If Lyft is competitive, it is merely matter of discovery required before they gain share.

Even if your base Lyft rate in your market is higher than the base Uber rate, we are also better off still taking any Uber trip that you think will pay better due to surge or tips. If the base rate for Uber is lower but you get the surges, you are effectively paid more. Taking a stance to side with Lyft at the expense of profit would only encourage Lyft to not pay out primetime.

I find that the biggest reason Lyft trips are more profitable to me is the distance of the trips, not the base pay increase (5%) or tips. My hunch is that the Lyft trips are a larger distance because the customer is essentially paying less per mile with all the add-ons Uber adds on that we don't see (upfront-fee skimming, booking fees, etc.)

Always take the most profitable trips to encourage both companies to foster the most profitable environment.









I don't always choose to drive with Lyft. But when I do, it is when I feel they are the most profitable.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> In my area when I started with Lyft in February Lyft rides were very rare, but they pay better. I've been handing out Lyft invite cards for a substantial portion of my Uber rides. I imagine other local drivers have been doing the same. When I started in February seeing Lyft cars on the road was also somewhat rare whereas now it seems at least half of the Uber drivers are also Lyft drivers.
> 
> My ratio of Lyft rides to Uber has been increasing. ASSUMING Lyft is paying better than Uber in your market, you need not actually stop using Uber altogether. Just use Lyft preferentially when you can and spread the word to passengers. In the long run your pay will increase either as Lyft gains market share or Uber caves and pays competitively.
> 
> ...


I understand where you are coming from and appreciate the positive perspective. There is one aspect of this that needs to be considered though. There is asymmetry of information. Uber has a lot more information in this case than we do (as does Lyft) so it can be difficult to know what your options are and what's best till long after the time to make a decision. In a free market with transparency of information I agree, we have as much power as the companies do. But they hold the upper hand in this situation because they can selectively release information to us based on how they want to manipulate us from a behavioral science perspective.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Uber has a lot more information in this case than we do (as does Lyft) so it can be difficult to know what your options are and what's best till long after the time to make a decision. In a free market with transparency of information I agree, we have as much power as the companies do. But they hold the upper hand in this situation because they can selectively release information to us based on how they want to manipulate us from a behavioral science perspective.


Its certainly true that Uber has most of the information out there.

At any point in time they know exactly how many drivers are out there, and everything about them.

The partner's advantages is that there is so much information, that Uber might not be able to use it to their best advantage. The other advantage the partner has is that he owns the Means of Production to actually deliver the money.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Just saw this.

So it looks like they just want to raise the price charged to the customer without giving us a raise. Total bullshit!



> *Uber Starts Charging What It Thinks You're Willing to Pay*
> 
> ber drivers have been complaining that the gap between the fare a rider pays and what the driver receives is getting wider. After months of unsatisfying answers, Uber Technologies Inc. is providing an explanation: *It's charging some passengers more because it needs the extra cash.*
> 
> ...


For more, see link
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-on-predicting-how-much-you-re-willing-to-pay


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## Bean (Sep 24, 2016)

I was just about to post that. I don't know how they think this is right:

_"Daniel Graf, Uber's head of product, said the company applies machine-learning techniques to estimate how much groups of customers are willing to shell out for a ride. Uber calculates riders' propensity for paying a higher price for a particular route at a certain time of day. For instance, someone traveling from a wealthy neighborhood to another tony spot might be asked to pay more than another person heading to a poorer part of town, even if demand, traffic and distance are the same."_

Unbelievable!


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Bean said:


> I was just about to post that. I don't know how they think this is right:
> 
> _"Daniel Graf, Uber's head of product, said the company applies machine-learning techniques to estimate how much groups of customers are willing to shell out for a ride. Uber calculates riders' propensity for paying a higher price for a particular route at a certain time of day. For instance, someone traveling from a wealthy neighborhood to another tony spot might be asked to pay more than another person heading to a poorer part of town, even if demand, traffic and distance are the same."_
> 
> Unbelievable!


The thing is once they start doing this then who knows what else is next. It's hard to believe pings go to the closest driver now too. I can't see them resisting the temptation to "play games" and send good runs to certain drivers and bad ones to others. The whole idea pisses me off greatly when sitting for two hours in a parking lot with no other drivers within a mile and not getting anything.

Then add on the idea of Uber getting $10 for a ride but only giving me $3 REALLY REALLY pisses me off big time.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

touberornottouber said:


> Just saw this.
> 
> So it looks like they just want to raise the price charged to the customer without giving us a raise. Total bullshit!


I guess these are two unrelated markets- the market for people who need rides and how much they are willing to pay, and the market for drivers and how little they are willing to accept for the use of their vehicles and their time.

Uber has placed themselves as irreplaceable right in between in a sweet spot to take advantage of both.

You can be angry about it, but most people would do the same thing as Uber. Its a new business scheme, and there is no book of ethics written on it yet.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> I guess these are two unrelated markets- the market for people who need rides and how much they are willing to pay, and the market for drivers and how little they are willing to accept for the use of their vehicles and their time.
> 
> Uber has placed themselves as irreplaceable right in between in a sweet spot to take advantage of both.
> 
> You can be angry about it, but most people would do the same thing as Uber. Its a new business scheme, and there is no book of ethics written on it yet.


I'll quit. I'm not driving people 2 miles for $3 when they get $12 for it. NO WAY!


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## Skinny1 (Sep 24, 2015)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-App-introducing-new-pricing.html#comments

It's a matter of time word will spread


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

I_Like_Spam said:


> I guess these are two unrelated markets- the market for people who need rides and how much they are willing to pay, and the market for drivers and how little they are willing to accept for the use of their vehicles and their time.
> 
> Uber has placed themselves as irreplaceable right in between in a sweet spot to take advantage of both.
> 
> You can be angry about it, but most people would do the same thing as Uber. Its a new business scheme, and there is no book of ethics written on it yet.


It's not a new business scheme. I can go to Joe the farmer and buy peaches for $0.05 and go sell them in town for $1 each, for example. I can charge whatever I think people are willing to pay - until competition comes into play. And that's what Uber needs: competition. Riders and drivers will both benefit. Riders aren't going to like the idea that they're paying more to Uber for the same thing the software has been doing for years and none of it's going to the drivers. The ill will the company is creating will come back to bite them. There is tremendous value in a brand with good will. Just look at Coke. Look at any brand with fair trade and practices. There are lots of books on ethics written, and ethical businesses succeed. Unethical business don't. Uber is riding the "sweet spot" for now, and I think they only way they're able to act with ethical short-sightedness is that all their eggs are in the self-driving cars basket. Otherwise, they'd be riding the sweet spot into obscurity as unethical as they are. Being good to people pays.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Skinny1 said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-App-introducing-new-pricing.html#comments
> 
> It's a master of time word will spread


Yeah, I think the thing to do is hope that lyft doesn't follow suit and steer all of our riders to lyft. While on the ride, tell them how they are being ripped off and give them a referral to Lyft.


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2015)

Bean said:


> I got an email, maybe everyone did, about a new version of the driver app being released by May 21st.
> 
> Of note,
> _"Fare details, including what the rider paid and Uber's service fee, can be viewed by tapping "Fare Details" on the trip receipt."_
> ...


I got that same email. If you look closely at the screenshot, however, it shows the base fare of $1.50 (50 cents less) and mileage of $1.15 (same) and time on trip 16.5 cents per min(5.5 cents per min less) than the 2015 service agreement. Now maybe it's just an example screenshot maybe it's the New Deal--I'm not a mind reader I don't know. Maybe it is the payout without deducting the platform driver fee. I do know it takes ALOT longer than 23 minutes to get from Chrissy field to SFO. I would just pray and hang on that this little UBER unicorn doesn't become a rare addax. Good luck


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