# Attorney here. Decided to try lyft for fun... Now I kind of want to sue Lyft...



## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

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https://www.reddit.com/r/lyftdrivers/comments/e8gl4a


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Driving low on gas and accepting rides is a choice.

I’m not sure I understand what the legal case is going to consist of. Underpaid by $10-30 or so perhaps (depending on market), but otherwise they got what they signed a contract for.

Lyft is abusive, but I’m struggling to see how this situation is going to result in some sort of successful case, especially since it is probably subject to arbitration.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Please be aware this is a crosspost from a different forum. I am not an attorney and I am not the original poster on the other forum.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

jocker12 said:


> View attachment 387056
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Recruit Attorneys to Drive !



jocker12 said:


> Please be aware this is a crosspost from a different forum. I am not an attorney and I am not the original poster on the other forum.


Ive got the IDEA for the NEXT

REALITY T.V. SHOW !

RECRUIT LAWYERS, DR.'s Professionals to be UBER DRIVERS !

BROADCAST THEIR COMMENTS REGARDING COMPANIES EXPLOITATION !


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## GregJinAZ (Feb 7, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> Driving low on gas and accepting rides is a choice.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what the legal case is going to consist of. Underpaid by $10-30 or so perhaps (depending on market), but otherwise they got what they signed a contract for.
> 
> Lyft is abusive, but I'm struggling to see how this situation is going to result in some sort of successful case, especially since it is probably subject to arbitration.


Oh look. A long nosed communist lyft shill appears out of nowhere. Shocking!!


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

GregJinAZ said:


> Oh look. A long nosed communist lyft shill appears out of nowhere. Shocking!!


Yeah, I support workers' rights and rideshare company regulation. I am such a commie.


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## GregJinAZ (Feb 7, 2017)

Tribal, communist lawyers and judges are the ONLY reason these big tech vampires havent been forced out of business in America. Otherwise real lawyers wouldve pounced on the opportunity long ago. Blatant criminal activity.

What will you people do when you are no longer protected by your dual citizen traitor friends???


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

GregJinAZ said:


> Tribal, communist lawyers and judges are the ONLY reason these big tech vampires havent been forced out of business in America. Otherwise real lawyers wouldve pounced on the opportunity long ago. Blatant criminal activity.
> 
> What will you people do when you are no longer protected by your dual citizen traitor friends???


Your paranoia is so thick that you can't tell that I hate the rideshare companies. I don't think frivolous or impossible lawsuits will take them down, so I don't support them. If this lawyer who had a bad but fairly typical rideshare experience wants to challenge Lyft, they may be prevented from doing so because they didn't opt out of arbitration. How am I some sort of shill if I state factually that they probably don't have a litigious leg to stand on?

Please accept my apologies for appearing to be a shill for the communist rideshare companies. You may want to be careful about throwing around the "long nosed" stuff - it makes you sound anti-Semitic. I'm sure that was not your intent.


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

jocker thanx for sharing this story. Stick around. We could use some representation and someone to explain the law and the rulings. Good luck with your case.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> jocker thanx for sharing this story. Stick around. We could use some representation and someone to explain the law and the rulings. Good luck with your case.


Please see my #3 comment above.

You're welcome!


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

oh!


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Apparently common sense isn't part of being an attorney? Fake news.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Ssgcraig said:


> Apparently common sense isn't part of being an attorney? Fake news.


I almost felt bad for laughing at this story.



waldowainthrop said:


> Your paranoia is so thick that you can't tell that I hate the rideshare companies. I don't think frivolous or impossible lawsuits will take them down, so I don't support them. If this lawyer who had a bad but fairly typical rideshare experience wants to challenge Lyft, they may be prevented from doing so because they didn't opt out of arbitration. How am I some sort of shill if I state factually that they probably don't have a litigious leg to stand on?
> 
> Please accept my apologies for appearing to be a shill for the communist rideshare companies. You may want to be careful about throwing around the "long nosed" stuff - it makes you sound anti-Semitic. I'm sure that was not your intent.


Trolls aren't long on logic.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

jocker12 said:


> View attachment 387056
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first question I have is are you using a rental from Lyft, second why didn't you tell the pax that you were low on gas and go fill up on your way.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

peteyvavs said:


> first question I have is are you using a rental from Lyft, second why didn't you tell the pax that you were low on gas and go fill up on your way.


Please read my #3 comment. The link to the discussion with the poster is at the bottom of post, right under the screenshot.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Driving low on gas and accepting rides is a choice.


I've done that by accident. It was really late and I was in sf, put on DF to home (san Jose) which at that time was 50 miles away.

I saw the gas light turn on and was going to stop by the next station. Then I got a ping, I forgot about the gas. After the 2 girls were in my car I remembered and saw they were 40 miles away &#129318;‍♀.

So I had to stop in some city between San Francisco and san jose and I'm telling you the first gas station was closed for the night. Yes CLOSED! I've never seen that. Pax were pissed at the multiple gas station stops. I got a 1 star &#128529;.

By the way they turned from being really friendly to vicious. Saying things under their breathe. So uncomfortable.

Lesson learned though &#129335;‍♀


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> I've done that by accident. It was really late and I was in sf, put on DF to home (san Jose) which at that time was 50 miles away.
> 
> I saw the gas light turn on and was going to stop by the next station. Then I got a ping, I forgot about the gas. After the 2 girls were in my car I remembered and saw they were 40 miles away &#129318;‍♀.
> 
> ...


This is why I almost always gas up when I get down to half a tank.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

goneubering said:


> This is why I almost always gas up when I get down to half a tank.


Half a tank always! Seems like a lot of work. &#128530;

I usually wait for the tank to have the gas light on. Except, when I'm doing uber now. I pee and fill up gas before every shift. It sucks to put in gas when you get on a roll.


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## AngelAdams (Jan 21, 2019)

not a very good lawyer I see. Didn’t even read the fine print.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

He's really going to be pissed when he realizes there's no phone number to call 😬🤭


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## Funky Monkey (Jul 11, 2016)

jocker12 said:


> View attachment 387056
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I appreciate the thought but 93 miles and $57 doesn't add up? More like 93 miles and $75-84. Even at $80 your goose is cooked if you have to deadhead home. Hey, as long as there are those of us who are dumb enough to drive for them... I've been itching for them to run out of drivers but Lord knows if, when that's going to happen


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

He made a point. Paying less per miles than standard IRS rate for mileage!!!
So, whatever we made on miles that will be pitied payback (deducted) by IRS for torn and worn on our cars plus gas. which means we are enjoying aging of our car by ourselves. And we got pay by driving minutes and that becomes actual earning.
Oh. Shit! That lawyer just brainwashed me. :confusion::confusion::confusion:


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## Funky Monkey (Jul 11, 2016)

Wildgoose said:


> He made a point. Paying less per miles than standard IRS rate for mileage!!!
> So, whatever we made on miles that will be pitied payback (deducted) by IRS for torn and worn on our cars plus gas. which means we are enjoying aging of our car by ourselves. And we got pay by driving minutes and that becomes actual earning.
> Oh. Shit! That lawyer just brainwashed me. :confusion::confusion::confusion:


I think the IRS is around $0.56 and Lyft is $0.60 excluding miles. Is our profit the per minute amount, $0.10-$0.12 or whatever it is?! I'd love it if someone smart, math major or otherwise, would write in and break it down for the more obtuse among us


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> I've done that by accident. It was really late and I was in sf, put on DF to home (san Jose) which at that time was 50 miles away.
> 
> I saw the gas light turn on and was going to stop by the next station. Then I got a ping, I forgot about the gas. After the 2 girls were in my car I remembered and saw they were 40 miles away &#129318;‍♀.
> 
> ...


if you were gonna get one starred anyway ,would have been fun to stop the ride and boot them...lol


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

5☆OG said:


> if you were gonna get one starred anyway ,would have been fun to stop the ride and boot them...lol


Fun? Yeah until they kick and dent my car &#129324;

It's okay that 1 star fell off already &#128513;


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> Fun? Yeah until they kick and dent my car &#129324;
> 
> It's okay that 1 star fell off already &#128513;


yeah a dent in the car is no bueno


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

Funky Monkey said:


> I think the IRS is around $0.56 and Lyft is $0.60 excluding miles. Is our profit the per minute amount, $0.10-$0.12 or whatever it is?! I'd love it if someone smart, math major or otherwise, would write in and break it down for the more obtuse among us


Hi all. New here. I can answer this though!

The IRS rate for 2019 is $0.58/mi. That includes $0.26/mi for depreciation. But the IRS rules for depreciating a car have it fully depreciated--I mean zero value, not even scrap, not even salvage--at five years. And that $0.26 rate is for a typical new car. Figure 20,000 miles per year, five years, that's a $26,000 car worth zero after five years and 100,000 miles. That's not reality.

I hope your actual depreciation will be much less. It has two components: age and mileage. Go to the Kelly or NADA blue book and look at your car's current value. Now add 30,000 miles or whatever you drive in a year. You'll get a lower value. Take the difference, divide by 30,000 miles. That's your mileage depreciation rate.

Now take your car and go up or down a model year without changing the mileage. Your car will be worth less just because it's older, even if you park it in your garage for the whole year and don't drive it at all. That's your age depreciation rate. You're gonna lose that whether or not you rideshare, so it's not a factor in your profits.

For my 2013 car, my mileage depreciation is $0.04/mi. Then I do about $0.10/mi for gas and $0.05 for maintenance. Lyft pays $0.63/mi, so I profit $0.44/mi, plus the $0.11 minute rate. If only they paid for pickup miles and minutes, life would be grand . . .


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Funky Monkey said:


> I appreciate the thought but 93 miles and $57 doesn't add up? More like 93 miles and $75-84. Even at $80 your goose is cooked if you have to deadhead home. Hey, as long as there are those of us who are dumb enough to drive for them... I've been itching for them to run out of drivers but Lord knows if, when that's going to happen


I would be willing to bet it's an Express Drive rental with basement rates. The numbers match the worst rental car rates I think. IRS deductions don't even come into the picture with that arrangement.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

The driver probably would have appreciated a long ride notification. The algorithm probably gave him this long ride as a “gift” or “lure”.


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## Funky Monkey (Jul 11, 2016)

Jon Stoppable said:


> Hi all. New here. I can answer this though!
> 
> The IRS rate for 2019 is $0.58/mi. That includes $0.26/mi for depreciation. But the IRS rules for depreciating a car have it fully depreciated--I mean zero value, not even scrap, not even salvage--at five years. And that $0.26 rate is for a typical new car. Figure 20,000 miles per year, five years, that's a $26,000 car worth zero after five years and 100,000 miles. That's not reality.
> 
> ...


Best explanation so far / have bookmarked it. I've assumed for a long time that your profits would be near 100% on an older vehicle and your math confirms it. Just a matter of not wrecking a newer vehicle



Dammit Mazzacane said:


> The driver probably would have appreciated a long ride notification. The algorithm probably gave him this long ride as a "gift" or "lure".


I got a 3 1/2 hour ride that said 43 minutes, unless I misread it. TG it was 3 in the afternoon and not 3am. Might not be writing this


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

GregJinAZ said:


> Oh look. A long nosed communist lyft shill appears out of nowhere. Shocking!!


And how do you know the length of his nose?


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## Prius_McGilli (Aug 27, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> By the way they turned from being really friendly to vicious. Saying things under their breathe.


Wait a minute.

Are you honestly saying that a couple of women suddenly became passive-aggressive and behaved in a vindictive manner in response to perceived mistreatment?

I'm not calling you a liar, madam, but that's got to a be a mistake.

I mean, that shit never happens...


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Mkang14 said:


> Half a tank always! Seems like a lot of work. &#128530;
> 
> I usually wait for the tank to have the gas light on. Except, when I'm doing uber now. I pee and fill up gas before every shift. It sucks to put in gas when you get on a roll.


I fill at half tank if convenient. 1/4 tank, I fill ASAP, but will take a fare if I get one.

An advantage of not letting fuel get to low is the electric fuel pump sits at the bottom of the tank, and the fuel cools it. Keeping it cooler may help it last longer.

I know what you mean about being on a roll. Once you get into a good groove, hate to break it with a pit stop.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> Half a tank always! Seems like a lot of work. &#128530;
> 
> I usually wait for the tank to have the gas light on. Except, when I'm doing uber now. I pee and fill up gas before every shift. It sucks to put in gas when you get on a roll.


I agree with all of this, but one thing to remember with modern cars: running down to your last gallon often dips into your fuel reserve and can cause damage to your car's fuel pump. The fuel pump is cooled and lubricated by the fuel in the tank and is designed to run with ample fuel. When you are at low fuel for too long, the fuel pump is starved of this fuel (especially in braking and cornering) which can cause it to heat up past desired operating temperature and eventually will cause lasting damage. Fuel pumps are more expensive to repair than some other parts because of the labor involved with removing the fuel tank.

I believe the danger point for your fuel pump is generally well _after _the empty indicator comes on, but it's a good idea to avoid an empty tank anyway. Additionally low fuel can mess with your air/fuel mixture causing combustion issues.

I know, boring advice.

The one time I had a passenger who extended his trip from a 35 minute trip to a 1 hour trip into a rural area, I had to stop on the trip to ensure I didn't end up in the middle of nowhere with no gas stations to be found. I fueled up 5 gallons in the middle of the ride and he was cool with it (I had already stopped for him at a different place for an extended stop as well and he paid $8 for it).


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> I agree with all of this, but one thing to remember with modern cars: running down to your last gallon often dips into your fuel reserve and can cause damage to your car's fuel pump. The fuel pump is cooled and lubricated by the fuel in the tank and is designed to run with ample fuel. When you are at low fuel for too long, the fuel pump is starved of this fuel (especially in braking and cornering) which can cause it to heat up past desired operating temperature and eventually will cause lasting damage. Fuel pumps are more expensive to repair than some other parts because of the labor involved with removing the fuel tank.
> 
> I believe the danger point for your fuel pump is generally well _after _the empty indicator comes on, but it's a good idea to avoid an empty tank anyway. Additionally low fuel can mess with your air/fuel mixture causing combustion issues.
> 
> ...


This is great advice. I didnt know this &#128556;. Let me make another confession...

Last week I turned on my car and it said 6 miles left before gas is out. The gas station is a little over a mile away. When I started driving the miles left started decreasing fast and hit 0 miles left when I was a quarter mile away. Thank god I made it to the pump somehow. First time that happend in this car.

I had ran out gas 2 times before in my other vehicles &#128517;. I get distracted and forget &#128556;.


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## Mtbsrfun (May 25, 2019)

All cars are different; most have a reserve to prevent issues like frying a pump. It’s when you go into that reserve you have problems; I don’t mean with 7 miles left, I mean below 0. On the old cars you could drive below the empty line; usually it’s .5-2 gallons.

I’ve had several high mileage cars for years and never cooked a pump using this information and I drive my cars hard. Just don’t make going below 0 a regular occurrence and you’ll be fine; if you do run low just drive the car gently and try not to take hard corners.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Driving low on gas and accepting rides is a choice.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what the legal case is going to consist of. Underpaid by $10-30 or so perhaps (depending on market), but otherwise they got what they signed a contract for.
> 
> Lyft is abusive, but I'm struggling to see how this situation is going to result in some sort of successful case, especially since it is probably subject to arbitration.


Adding a trip without a drivers input is violating their independent contractor rights & puts the contract in breach by treating them like employees

Threatening them if they cancel is a form of duress also illegal

The blank contract hiding the details so he wouldn't know it puts him an hour + from home is a form of fraud since he's not compensated for that ride back or guaranteed another ride at the drop off point

You can opt out of arbitration & small claims exist where it's not about winning it's about putting it on public record & making them spend money sending their high priced suits out to defend or risking a default judgment


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

troothequalstroll said:


> Adding a trip without a drivers input is violating their independent contractor rights & puts the contract in breach by treating them like employees
> 
> Threatening them if they cancel is a form of duress also illegal
> 
> ...


I don't really want to argue about what Lyft does that is legal or illegal. I'm sure some things that they do are not a part of an enforceable contract but most of it is fine.

As for arbitration that is my point. You can't sue if you aren't opted out and the dispute is covered by the arbitration process. I have a feeling that the lawyer might be naive about what kind of contract they entered into but I hope not.


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## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

You decide to drive for fun?! Jesus Christ you must be starved for entertainment where you live! Not only does RS in general pay shit money (unless you do it correctly) the people are abusive and treat you like a slave allot of the time!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Ssgcraig said:


> Apparently common sense isn't part of being an attorney? Fake news.


Yeah, not an attorney I'd want to hire. Doesn't have the sense or the balls to cancel a ride he clearly doesn't want. And also no balls to stop for gas with a pax, apparently. I'll be damned if I risk running out of gas for a pax, especially miles from home.

And did no research about this gig beforehand, apparently. Can't say it's not easy to figure out how the companies operate just by googling them. Most times you'll end up here.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Fat Man said:


> You decide to drive for fun?! Jesus Christ you must be starved for entertainment where you live! Not only does RS in general pay shit money (unless you do it correctly) the people are abusive and treat you like a slave allot of the time!


I did it for fun, at least partly. Sue me. &#128077;&#127996;&#127864;


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Funky Monkey said:


> I think the IRS is around $0.56 and Lyft is $0.60 excluding miles. Is our profit the per minute amount, $0.10-$0.12 or whatever it is?! I'd love it if someone smart, math major or otherwise, would write in and break it down for the more obtuse among us


If that's the rates then there will be no profit unless you have no dead miles. One dead mile will eat up 5 or 6 minutes of driving.

If you're showing a profit (to the IRS) you're either in one of the few decent markets where the rates are better or there's at least plenty of surge OR you're doing your taxes wrong.


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## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> If that's the rates then there will be no profit unless you have no dead miles. One dead mile will eat up 5 or 6 minutes of driving.
> 
> If you're showing a profit (to the IRS) you're either in one of the few decent markets where the rates are better or there's at least plenty of surge OR you're doing your taxes wrong.


What the IRS doesn't know won't hurt them! :wink:


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> Half a tank always! Seems like a lot of work. &#128530;
> 
> I usually wait for the tank to have the gas light on. Except, when I'm doing uber now. I pee and fill up gas before every shift. It sucks to put in gas when you get on a roll.


Yeah. I probably overthink some of this stuff but I want to be prepared just in case I get a long trip. If I'm down to a half tank I usually gas up at night so I'm ready to go the following morning.



waldowainthrop said:


> I did it for fun, at least partly. Sue me. &#128077;&#127996;&#127864;


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

goneubering said:


> Yeah. I probably overthink some of this stuff but I want to be prepared just in case I get a long trip. If I'm down to a half tank I usually gas up at night so I'm ready to go the following morning.
> 
> 
> :smiles:


Your way is much better &#128514;.


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## Rosalita (May 13, 2018)

I cannot speak about Uber. But Lyft is just a horrible company. Driver support is pathetic.They have a folder with "standard operating responses" and no matter what the concern, issue, or question it's always your fault or something you didn't do, etc. They are mind f----. The pay is ridiculous. Lyft is always running around "virtue signaling" for free rides for poor people while cutting the pay rates of its drivers. Lyft looking to become the "The official ride share company of the welfare class."

Lyft doesn't want you to have control over your independent contractor status so it creates as many obstacles as it can to keep you on their hamster wheel. Putting a pax in the que is a violation of your independent contractor status. That's why drivers "sign off after last ride." Sure, you can cancel the ride but then that might just crash your "90% or higher" acceptance rating which gives you a "peek" of where your next ride is going.

Lyft provides two things that appeal to many drivers: Instant money/cash flow and no requirement to show up and work.



Daisey77 said:


> He's really going to be pissed when he realizes there's no phone number to call &#128556;&#129325;


lol He'll be scrolling through the "Help" section for months.



waldowainthrop said:


> I did it for fun, at least partly. Sue me. &#128077;&#127996;&#127864;


I've never had a pax treat me like s__. I've never had one order me around. I'm an older woman and once I stare up at the rear view, glare, and I say in my best "mother voice," "Don't make me pull this car over..." that usually settles all issues.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Rosalita said:


> I've never had a pax treat me like s__. I've never had one order me around. I'm an older woman and once I stare up at the rear view, glare, and I say in my best "mother voice," "Don't make me pull this car over..." that usually settles all issues.


I'm guessing you don't work bar close? LOL these kids will argue with anyone about anything&#129318;


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## Talcire (May 18, 2016)

The option to cancel exists for a reason. Use that option as often as you see fit. No need to engage the rider. Don't like the distance or direction? Cancel.


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

Lyft is a company that preys on ignorance and uses psychology to move it's ants, Mr lawyer.

If you can find a way to sue them for:

Psychological manipulation (threat messages about acceptance in wording that may sound like you are about to hit the curb but in reality does not affect you in the very least)

Ignorance ( Your situation, when they add a trip before you drop off, you can actually cancel it at no risk before ending the new trip)

Dunno... sue them for lack of info, incompetence, mind games? If that's even possible.


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