# How would an insurance company know if your in phase 1?



## SoCalDriver562

How would an insurance company know if you were in phase 1 of an accident (app turned on, havent accepted a ride)? I'm guessing if the police showed up they could see if you had some stickers on, but they couldn't prove that you were in phase 1, correct?

Couldn't you just report to your car insurance company and your good to go? Makes sense to me.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> How would an insurance company know if you were in phase 1 of an accident (app turned on, havent accepted a ride)? I'm guessing if the police showed up they could see if you had some stickers on, but they couldn't prove that you were in phase 1, correct?
> 
> Couldn't you just report to your car insurance company and your good to go? Makes sense to me.


How about when your AAA investigator sees it in the police report about your stickers and decides to subpoena Uber's records to see if your app was on? Face it, you are running a risk of not having your car insured in period one if you don't have a specific rideshare endorsement, which AAA apparently has no interest in writing.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

SoCalDriver562 said:


> How would an insurance company know if you were in phase 1 of an accident (app turned on, havent accepted a ride)? I'm guessing if the police showed up they could see if you had some stickers on, but they couldn't prove that you were in phase 1, correct?
> 
> Couldn't you just report to your car insurance company and your good to go? Makes sense to me.


Insurance companies have been around for many years. They're not stupid. They know what to look for. Don't let an at fault accident turn into a felony by lying to your insurance company.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

Do you think the police report will say that he had an uber sticker. Do you really think they'll subpoena Uber records?

One thing that I do, is go across the street and park until I get pinged. So I'm rarely in phase 1. 

One other question is why isn't Uber and Lyft more upfront about this? I feel like they aren't very upfront with this.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

SoCalDriver562 said:


> One other question is why isn't Uber and Lyft more upfront about this? I feel like they aren't very upfront with this.


Because Uber doesn't know the laws themselves. It's not Uber's responsibility to be upfront with this. You're now an IC it's your responsibility to know the laws.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

Well shouldn't they know the laws in California when you sign up at the booths? I just think if this is the case, they should inform the drivers to look into extra insurance. They take a picture of your insurance policy, make sure you're insured. I also think that if you got into a fender bender in phase 1, you could quite easily use your personal insurance policy. If you had someone in the car, you'd probably have to use Uber / Lyft insurance. My brother was a claims rep for a number of years and I ran this by him a few days ago.


----------



## observer

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Because Uber doesn't know the laws themselves. It's not Uber's responsibility to be upfront with this. You're now an IC it's your responsibility to know the laws.


Uber knows the laws very well.

They choose to ignore those that don't benefit them.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

There you have it. I just think if they're putting the drivers at a real risk, they should let them know. I didn't know any of this possible "uninsured" until I came on this message board. I'm sure theres a huge number of people have no idea what there's such a thing as ride-share insurance. 

I guess my point is, unless they can prove that your in phase 1, they can't deny the claim.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

observer said:


> Uber knows the laws very well.
> 
> They choose to ignore those that don't benefit them.


With over 500 pending lawsuits filed against them they better know the laws.


----------



## observer

SoCalDriver562 said:


> There you have it. I just think if they're putting the drivers at a real risk, they should let them know. I didn't know any of this possible "uninsured" until I came on this message board. I'm sure theres a huge number of people have no idea what there's such a thing as ride-share insurance.
> 
> I guess my point is, unless they can prove that your in phase 1, they can't deny the claim.


Uber purposely misled drivers into thinking their personal insurance would cover an accident.

It doesn't.

Matter of fact, California state law specifically exempts personal coverage from liability in a TNC accident.

My ex had a very minor accident a few months ago. I happened to hear the other driver call his insurance company, first thing insurance rep asked, Did you have paying customers in your car? He wasn't even a TNC driver.

Insurance companies have caught on to TNC drivers. There really is no excuse not to get TNC insurance.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

So why don't they let their "employees" know. Considering they're such a massive business. I don't get it!


----------



## observer

TNC insurance is pretty easy to get now in California.
Check out this thread,

https://uberpeople.net/threads/metromile.66916/page-2


----------



## SoCalDriver562

observer said:


> Uber purposely misled drivers into thinking their personal insurance would cover an accident.
> 
> It doesn't.
> 
> Matter of fact, California state law specifically exempts personal coverage from liability in a TNC accident.
> 
> My ex had a very minor accident a few months ago. I happened to hear the other driver call his insurance company, first thing insurance rep asked, Did you have paying customers in your car? He wasn't even a TNC driver.
> 
> Insurance companies have caught on to TNC drivers. There really is no excuse not to get TNC insurance.


But if you're in phase 1, you wouldn't have paying customers in your car, correct? How would they know you had the app turned on?


----------



## observer

SoCalDriver562 said:


> So why don't they let their "employees" know. Considering they're such a massive business. I don't get it!


There's no liability for Uber and they don't want to scare off drivers.


----------



## observer

SoCalDriver562 said:


> But if you're in phase 1, you wouldn't have paying customers in your car, correct? How would they know you had the app turned on?





Older Chauffeur said:


> How about when your AAA investigator sees it in the police report about your stickers and decides to subpoena Uber's records to see if your app was on? Face it, you are running a risk of not having your car insured in period one if you don't have a specific rideshare endorsement, which AAA apparently has no interest in writing.


Uber signed an agreement with an insurance group last year, where they are bound to help in any accident investigation. So your insurance company may not even need to subpoena, all they have to do is ask.


----------



## observer

I also think that became one of the CPUC regs as well. I'll have to look it up. As SEAL Team 5 said it is the drivers responsibility to know current laws.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

It just seems super shady on Uber / Lyfts part and why could this be legal? Just makes no sense with so many "drivers" on the road these days. I'm sure there's tons in the same position.


----------



## observer

Yupp it's a CPUC reg.

*Insurance Requirements for TNCs*
*The current insurance requirements are summarized below:*
TNC services are defined by three periods:

Period 1: App open - waiting for a match.


Period 1 - TNCs shall provide primary insurance in the amount of at least fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) for death and personal injury per person, one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) for death and personal injury per incident, and thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) for property damage. TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC that provides coverage if a driver does not maintain the required TNC insurance, or if the driver's TNC insurance ceases to exist or is cancelled; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).
TNCs shall also maintain insurance coverage that provides excess coverage insuring the TNC and the driver in the amount of at least two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) per occurrence to cover any liability arising from a participating driver using a vehicle in connection with a TNC's online-enabled application or platform. TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver, if the TNC verifies that the driver's TNC insurance covers the driver's use of a vehicle for TNC services; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).
Period 2: Match accepted - but passenger not yet picked up (i.e. driver is on his/her way to pick up the passenger).

Period 3: Passenger in the vehicle and until the passenger exits the vehicle.


Periods 2 and 3 - TNCs must provide primary commercial insurance in the amount of one million dollars ($1,000,000). TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver, if the TNC verifies that the driver's TNC insurance covers the driver's use of a vehicle for TNC services; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).
Period 3 - TNCs shall also provide uninsured motorist coverage and underinsured motorist coverage in the amount of one million dollars ($1,000,000) during Period 3 (i.e., from the moment a passenger enters the vehicle until the passenger exits the vehicle). TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver, if the TNC verifies that the driver's TNC insurance covers the driver's use of a vehicle for TNC services; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b). The policy may also provide this coverage during any other time period, if requested by a participating driver relative to insurance maintained by the driver.

Other requirements related to TNC insurance:

TNCs shall disclose to their drivers:


the insurance coverage and limits of liability that the TNC provides while the driver uses a vehicle in connection with a TNC's online-enabled application or platform. 
that the driver's personal automobile insurance policy will not provide coverage because the driver uses a vehicle in connection with a TNC's online-enabled application or platform. 

that the driver's personal automobile insurance policy will not provide collision or comprehensive coverage for damage to the vehicle used by the driver from the moment the driver logs on to the TNC's online-enabled application or platform to the moment the driver logs off the TNC's online-enabled application or platform. (Public Utilities Code Section 5432)

In a claims coverage investigation, a TNC or its insurer shall cooperate with insurers that are involved in the claims coverage investigation to facilitate the exchange of information. (Public Utilities Code Section 5435)

TNC drivers shall be required to provide proof of both their personal insurance and the commercial insurance in the case of an accident. (Decision 13-09-045 Safety Requirement b)


----------



## observer

SoCalDriver562 said:


> It just seems super shady on Uber / Lyfts part and why could this be legal? Just makes no sense with so many "drivers" on the road these days. I'm sure there's tons in the same position.


Uber/Lyft have been super shady from day one.


----------



## observer

This is CPUC website where I pulled that previous post,

http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=3802


----------



## SoCalDriver562

But how would they know if you were in phase 1? Let's say you were involved in a fender bender. You'd call your insurance and make a claim. In the recorded statement do they ask, "did you see an uber sticker on his windshield?". I dunno maybe they ask the other driver that, but I doubt it.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

observer said:


> Yupp it's a CPUC reg.
> 
> *Insurance Requirements for TNCs*
> *The current insurance requirements are summarized below:*
> TNC services are defined by three periods:
> 
> Period 1: App open - waiting for a match.
> 
> 
> Period 1 - TNCs shall provide primary insurance in the amount of at least fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) for death and personal injury per person, one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) for death and personal injury per incident, and thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) for property damage. TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC that provides coverage if a driver does not maintain the required TNC insurance, or if the driver's TNC insurance ceases to exist or is cancelled; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).
> TNCs shall also maintain insurance coverage that provides excess coverage insuring the TNC and the driver in the amount of at least two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) per occurrence to cover any liability arising from a participating driver using a vehicle in connection with a TNC's online-enabled application or platform. TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver, if the TNC verifies that the driver's TNC insurance covers the driver's use of a vehicle for TNC services; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).
> Period 2: Match accepted - but passenger not yet picked up (i.e. driver is on his/her way to pick up the passenger).
> 
> Period 3: Passenger in the vehicle and until the passenger exits the vehicle.
> 
> 
> Periods 2 and 3 - TNCs must provide primary commercial insurance in the amount of one million dollars ($1,000,000). TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver, if the TNC verifies that the driver's TNC insurance covers the driver's use of a vehicle for TNC services; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).
> Period 3 - TNCs shall also provide uninsured motorist coverage and underinsured motorist coverage in the amount of one million dollars ($1,000,000) during Period 3 (i.e., from the moment a passenger enters the vehicle until the passenger exits the vehicle). TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver, if the TNC verifies that the driver's TNC insurance covers the driver's use of a vehicle for TNC services; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b). The policy may also provide this coverage during any other time period, if requested by a participating driver relative to insurance maintained by the driver.
> 
> Other requirements related to TNC insurance:
> 
> TNCs shall disclose to their drivers:
> 
> 
> the insurance coverage and limits of liability that the TNC provides while the driver uses a vehicle in connection with a TNC's online-enabled application or platform.
> that the driver's personal automobile insurance policy will not provide coverage because the driver uses a vehicle in connection with a TNC's online-enabled application or platform.
> 
> that the driver's personal automobile insurance policy will not provide collision or comprehensive coverage for damage to the vehicle used by the driver from the moment the driver logs on to the TNC's online-enabled application or platform to the moment the driver logs off the TNC's online-enabled application or platform. (Public Utilities Code Section 5432)
> 
> In a claims coverage investigation, a TNC or its insurer shall cooperate with insurers that are involved in the claims coverage investigation to facilitate the exchange of information. (Public Utilities Code Section 5435)
> 
> TNC drivers shall be required to provide proof of both their personal insurance and the commercial insurance in the case of an accident. (Decision 13-09-045 Safety Requirement b)


I noticed no un/under insured in periods 1 & 2 required. In a state like CA with many uninsured illegals that's a huge risk a driver accepts.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I noticed no un/under insured in periods 1 & 2 required. In a state like CA with many uninsured illegals that's a huge risk a driver accepts.


Uber and Lyft provide Uninsured / underinsured insurance for period 2 & 3 in CA.


----------



## observer

SoCalDriver562 said:


> But how would they know if you were in phase 1? Let's say you were involved in a fender bender. You'd call your insurance and make a claim. In the recorded statement do they ask, "did you see an uber sticker on his windshield?". I dunno maybe they ask the other driver that, but I doubt it.


They may not, but I wouldn't doubt that insurance companies routinely request from Uber if a driver is Ubering for them. Everything is computerized nowadays and doesn't take much effort. If a driver is Ubering, then they would ask about your being on app at time of accident or shortly before.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

I only do this part time while I'm in between jobs. Maybe I should check out Metro Mile for peace of mind. The thing, I prefer Lyft over Uber, but I can't have it all. Other option is to roll the dice as I don't drive that often. Maybe 2-3 hours daily.


----------



## observer

I had not noticed that TNC drivers are required to provide BOTH personal and commercial insurance in case of an accident.


----------



## observer

SoCalDriver562 said:


> I only do this part time while I'm in between jobs. Maybe I should check out Metro Mile for peace of mind. The thing, I prefer Lyft over Uber, but I can't have it all. Other option is to roll the dice as I don't drive that often. Maybe 2-3 hours daily.


Metromile won't cover you in a Lyft accident. I compiled a list of insurance companies that do cover you in one of the links I posted.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

Yeah I appreciate the list. I noticed that. I might just get Metro Mile and do Uber. We'll see. Other option is to not drive often in phase 1!


----------



## observer

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Yeah I appreciate the list. I noticed that. I might just get Metro Mile and do Uber. We'll see. Other option is to not drive often in phase 1!


Yepp, wouldn't hurt to get quotes and compare. Some drivers have posted their rates went up 20-30 dllrs a month with insurance companies that cover all TNCs. Just have to balance out what is best for you.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

Thanks for the advice, the issue is that I've already paid for the year of AAA through my old company. It would be difficult to change insurance companies until next June 2017. Main issue there.

Any ideas how I would go about that?


----------



## SoCalDriver562

If you look at this, Period 1, Uber and Lyft would carry the Liability coverage if necessary. Is that correct to say?


----------



## SoCalDriver562

https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/213584308-Insurance-Policy

I've also read this. So you do have contingent liability in driver one. Collision coverage and UM coverage would be the issue. And this is if you're insurance carrier denied coverage. So in a way, you are covered in Phase 1. Just the limits are lower, and collision coverage could be an issue.

It's the same rules with Uber.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

You can easily change insurers mid year. AAA will prorate the premium for the months you are with them. It may be weighted just a bit, so you don't get the full amount, but close. For example, say you pay $1200 annually, and you cancel after four months. You wouldn't get exactly $800 back. But they can give you the figure.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> But how would they know if you were in phase 1? Let's say you were involved in a fender bender. You'd call your insurance and make a claim. In the recorded statement do they ask, "did you see an uber sticker on his windshield?". I dunno maybe they ask the other driver that, but I doubt it.


Okay, you just don't want to believe what we are all telling you. But as I have said in other threads in which you have asked the same questions, I have been with the Auto Club for more years than you have been alive. I have had a couple of claims, and here is how it works.
Three years ago last month, I got hit by a double trailer dirt hauler on the freeway. He was behind me and coming fast, so I moved over one lane to let him pass. I overheard him as he admitted to another trucker who stopped that he didn't see me, and changed lanes into me, spinning my car around to the front bumper of his tractor, then pushing my car down the freeway about 200 feet.
Afterward, he changed his story and said I changed lanes into him.
The CHP officer said he needed to see 51% fault on one side or the other, and the damage indicated it could have happened either way. The officer asked me what I was doing and where I was going, the purpose of my trip. He told me off the record that he believed me, but had to file his report as "fault not determined."
An Auto Club claims rep (not an adjuster) interviewed me in a recorded phone call. She asked those same questions, and a bunch of others. They make sure that you understand that they will be investigating and verifying what you are telling them. She later informed me that I was not considered at fault, and would not be hit with a deductible or a surcharge on my premium for three years, as would have been the case if they determined it was an at-fault accident. 
I now have a dash cam as a result of that incident.
Have you considered that you might be involved in an accident with another AAA insured? Or another Uber driver?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Do you think the police report will say that he had an uber sticker. Do you really think they'll subpoena Uber records?
> 
> One thing that I do, is go across the street and park until I get pinged. So I'm rarely in phase 1.
> 
> One other question is why isn't Uber and Lyft more upfront about this? I feel like they aren't very upfront with this.


1. Possibly
2. Likely
You're gambling.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

Do you drive full-time for Uber? I guess my question is, is this your full-time job? I drive a few hours a day. And I've talked to a few more of buddies who are "claims reps", not just claims adjusters and they say that I should be A-Okay! (knock on wood).


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Do you drive full-time for Uber? I guess my question is, is this your full-time job? I drive a few hours a day. And I've talked to a few more of buddies who are "claims reps", not just claims adjusters and they say that I should be A-Okay! (knock on wood).


See my signature. Do these buddies of yours work for the Auto Club? If not, then their advice is not going to help you. If they do work for the Auto Club, get them to put in writing that they are advising you to ignore the terms of the policy to which you have agreed. I think there is probably a statement in the policy that no employee can change those terms.

Having read, I believe, all your posts on various threads asking the same basic question, I think your conscience is bothering you. It is telling you to do the right thing and get insurance from a company that offere rideshare coverage. You will sleep better, knowing you and your car are covered without the risks associated with committing insurance fraud.
Once more, I encourage you to READ YOUR AUTO POLICY. Specifically the upper right half of page 3 re statements and misrepresentation or fraud.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

How would it be insurance fraud if they don't know? I guess you'd be lying to yourself a bit, but come on. Who hasn't told a fib or two to come in this world we live in today?


----------



## SEAL Team 5

SoCalDriver562 said:


> How would it be insurance fraud if they don't know? I guess you'd be lying to yourself a bit, but come on. Who hasn't told a fib or two to come in this world we live in today?


The same way it would be perjury for filing your taxes and not reporting your Uber income. That little signature line on the bottom of most contracts, documents or applications that starts with "under penalty of perjury" is not there so that someone can grade your penmanship.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> How would it be insurance fraud if they don't know? I guess you'd be lying to yourself a bit, but come on. Who hasn't told a fib or two to come in this world we live in today?


Can you not understand the sections I told you to read in your policy? (My post #37) Have a lawyer explain to you what it says.
They "don't know" because you are not telling them, in a direct violation of the policy terms.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> How would it be insurance fraud if they don't know? I guess you'd be lying to yourself a bit, but come on. Who hasn't told a fib or two to come in this world we live in today?


To any who read the following, I apologize in advance for the length, but I'm trying to educate this member.
SoCalDriver,
I have tried to explain in multiple threads, and in answer to your rephrasing of the same basic question of, "How can I get away with using my personal insurance from the Interinsurance Exchange of the Auto Club of So California, which doesn't cover rideshare, and have it cover me when I Uber/Lyft in Period 1?"
You don't seem to get it, and even though your buddies who are "claims representatives" for unnamed insurance companies have told you that " you should be A-okay," you are still looking for assurance from members of this board that you can get away with possible insurance fraud. Neither your buddies or contributors here are going to be able to help you if you have an accident and AAA is involved.
One additional point I would like for you to consider is that long name above for AAA car insurance. Their insurance is not like that of a mutual insurance company, with a corporation charging premiums and issuing policies, setting rates that allow for corporate shareholders to benefit. 
Instead, AAA operates like a credit union, which uses members deposits to make loans at lower rates than commercial lenders. If you default on a credit union loan, you are hurting your fellow members. Did you ever wonder how you get the annual credit on your renewal premium? It's because the "profit" left over after collecting premiums, paying out claims and deducting operating expenses, is paid out to members like yourself.
So, exposing the AAA to the extra risk that attaches to rideshare is actually risking MY MONEY, because additional exposure results in less "profit." So even if you don't get caught, and they pay your claim, I, along with thousands of others, lose out on our return of premiums.
Now can you understand why AAA has a hands off attitude on assuming the risks associated with rideshare?


----------



## SoCalDriver562

You don't have to get all hasty about this!


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> You don't have to get all hasty about this!


Nothing hasty about it; in fact it took me quite awhile to compose and type!


----------



## SoCalDriver562

Are you in your late 60's? White male? Single?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Are you in your late 60's? White male? Single?


You got one out of three. But what does that have to do with the current discussion?


----------



## SoCalDriver562

You know what I'm talking about.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> You know what I'm talking about.


As far as I can tell, you're still (talking about) seeking validation of your plans to ignore the terms of your auto policy. What my age, ethnicity, gender and marital status have to do with that, I have no clue. Unless, perhaps you think that honesty and integrity, along with common sense and reading comprehension are limited to a specific demographic?


----------



## SoCalDriver562

Nope I actually tested out of English in college amigo. Nice try though!


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Nope I actually tested out of English in college amigo. Nice try though!


How unfortunate. You missed out on the sections covering proper punctuation and the use of capital letters.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

Older Chauffeur said:


> As far as I can tell, you're still (talking about) seeking validation of your plans to ignore the terms of your auto policy. What my age, ethnicity, gender and marital status have to do with that, I have no clue. Unless, perhaps you think that honesty and integrity, along with common sense and reading comprehension are limited to a specific demographic?


I've been reading your and SoCalDriver562 posts for the last 30 mins. My advice to you, just let him be. He must know what he has to do. It's just like the typical teenager in which you can tell them till you're blue in the face. Just let him learn on his own.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I've been reading your and SoCalDriver562 posts for the last 30 mins. My advice to you, just let him be. He must know what he has to do. It's just like the typical teenager in which you can tell them till you're blue in the face. Just let him learn on his own.


Good advice. I guess I have a low entertainment threshold. For his sake, I hope he's not back soon with one of those "Help, l just had an accident!" threads, worrying because his car is totaled and he is uninsured.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

No one can give me a legitimate answer on how your insurance company would know you were in phase 1.. Just sayin'.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

SoCalDriver562 said:


> No one can give me a legitimate answer on how your insurance company would know you were in phase 1.. Just sayin'.


There's one person the can get you a very definitive answer. That will be your insurance investigator after you get into an accident. I'm sure he will recite word for word what your policy says. He will also take the time to interpet all the legal jargon of your policy. Old Chauffeur actually spelled it out for you a couple times, but you refuse to accept it. Good luck.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

They call him Old Chaffeur for a reason. He's old school.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> No one can give me a legitimate answer on how your insurance company would know you were in phase 1.. Just sayin'.


One more time: insurance investigators can 
interview witnesses
read police reports
look at security video
subpoena TNC records
subpoena bank records
subpoena phone records
record an interview with you
interview any other drivers involved
interview your neighbors, coworkers, employer

Use your imagination if you need more. When it comes to paying out money, especially in large amounts, insurers are going to turn over every rock, especially knowing that thousands of rideshare drivers are not getting proper insurance.
If this isn't legitimate enough to satisfy you, then I see only one option left- call or go in and talk to a claims representative or investigator at your local Auto Club office, because you obviously won't believe anyone else.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> They call him Old Chaffeur for a reason. He's old school.


Have you ever heard the story about the old bull and the young bull standing on a hill, looking down at the herd of cows in the meadow?


----------



## SoCalDriver562

How old are you? Can you answer that?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> How old are you? Can you answer that?


I could, but tell me why I should. I have given you enough clues in other posts that you should be able to estimate it pretty close. Why are you so hung up on who I am? It doesn't change the information I'm providing. Would you have accepted my answers if I had said at the beginning that I am a claims investigator for AAA?


----------



## SoCalDriver562

Yeah maybe. I just feel that you might be a tad bit "OLD FASHIONED".


----------



## 2Peaks

How would your insurance company know you are phase 1? 

They might not. But know this. As severity of an accident goes up, the amount of research increases exponentially, not linear. They may or may not ask you about TNC driving depending on the severity. 

If it is a parking lot type accident, they may never know. If bodily injury to you or other car driver comes into play there will be more questions. Also, sometimes the police take photos. They might just show the trade dress sticker in your window that you forgot about after your airbag blew off in your face. 

All of the above does not address your UM, Med Pay and Physical Damage exposures, or, in some states, your no-fault coverages. 

As for a supheona for TNC records, don't practice law without a license. 
As for insurance advice, don't give it without a license.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Yeah maybe. I just feel that you might be a tad bit "OLD FASHIONED".


And so are the motor vehicle financial responsibility laws, motor vehicle operation laws, the underwriting rules of your insurance company and the judiciary system of every state. My state was the last to be admitted in the continuous 48 and that was in 1912. By 1915 all executive, judicial and legislative branches were in place in every state. So if you want to talk about "Old School", the laws you are wanting to "sweep under the rug" are nearly 100 years old and still enforceable. Again, Good Luck!!


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Yeah maybe. I just feel that you might be a tad bit "OLD FASHIONED".


Well, from what I see in the news, it's rare to have a senior citizen arrested for criminal activity. Crimes seem to be mostly committed by young people. If I'm "old fashioned " to you, because I'm honest and law abiding, I'll take it as a compliment.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

2Peaks said:


> How would your insurance company know you are phase 1?
> 
> They might not. But know this. As severity of an accident goes up, the amount of research increases exponentially, not linear. They may or may not ask you about TNC driving depending on the severity.
> 
> If it is a parking lot type accident, they may never know. If bodily injury to you or other car driver comes into play there will be more questions. Also, sometimes the police take photos. They might just show the trade dress sticker in your window that you forgot about after your airbag blew off in your face.
> 
> All of the above does not address your UM, Med Pay and Physical Damage exposures, or, in some states, your no-fault coverages.
> 
> As for a supheona for TNC records, don't practice law without a license.
> As for insurance advice, don't give it without a license.


Your post makes the same arguments that I and others have in this thread and two others in which this OP has sought advice. However, I take exception to the criticism you offer in your last two statements.

If you look up the definition of "legal advice" in CA, where you, the OP and I all reside, you will find that advice given on online boards by anyone, even by a "licensed lawyer" is not considered legal advice. So, if one is not giving legal advice here, it follows that one is not practicing law. In fact, in another post, I suggested to the OP that he seek assistance from a lawyer. 
Regarding TNC records, Uber has publicly stated that they will not release information without a subpoena.

Now, since you offered basically the same "advice" to the OP as I and others have in answer to his question, may we assume that you hold a Fire and Casualty Insurance License in CA? That's what I held when I sold insurance for the Auto Club, the very company with which the OP carries his car insurance. (Also something I disclosed to the OP.)
Now having established that I am not a lawyer offering legal advice, nor am I certified in CA to teach English, may I suggest that the correct spelling is "subpoena," whether or not it attached to legal advice.

As I understand the purpose of these boards, people can come here to share their knowledge and experiences, and to give "advice" regarding rideshare and other topics. In fact, there are specific forums with the titles "Advice" and "Other," if I recall correctly. So anyone coming here expecting to get advice that will hold up in court is in the wrong place. What that person will get is advice and opinions based on the knowledge and experience of other members. That's all one can expect.


----------



## 2Peaks

Don't get your knickers in a twist.

Yes, u answered him on other posts, but in this one you didn't. Not the specific question, "how would an insurance company know"...

I'll see your license and raise you a CPCU.

"Subpoena. [Latin, Under penalty.] A formal document that orders a named individual to appear before a duly authorized body at a fixed time to give testimony. A court, Grand Jury, legislative body, or Administrative ..."

So, Mr. AAA insurance broker, why would the insurance company request a subpoena for Über records, and, without going to court? All your subpoena this and subpoena that didn't answer his question. It's just stuff you learned watching Perry Mason re-runs.

I commend you for the Spelling Bee ribbons you received in grammar school. I'm sure they look fine pinned up there on your bedroom bulletin board. Don't you just get a kick out of those pompous people who point out minor sp and grammatical errors typed from our phones and iPads?

To the OP ... The insurance company might ask. And their mite bee 100,s of reesuns for the askin.

Peace. Out.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Wow, seems like you might be the one with your knickers in a twist! At the risk of twisting them even further, thus causing you extreme discomfort, I must correct you once more. The Auto Club does not sell their auto policies through brokers. Also, I answered his specific question in post #2 of this thread, making a point similar to yours.

As to your question about AAA getting a subpoena for Uber's records, obviously they would have go to court. Since that is how our judicial system works, I didn't think that it was necessary to state the obvious.

You asked why AAA would subpoena records. I will try to explain how I believe this would come about, so bear with me.
Say, for example, the OP has an at-fault accident during period one. He files a claim with AAA and they discover that he has been driving for Uber. (Police report, witness statements, trade dress, whatever.) So AAA subpoenas his records from Uber because they don't believe his story that he wasn't Ubering at the time of the accident. The records for trips made by our OP show he had just completed a trip and the app was on as he awaited another ping. This would result in exactly what the OP is worried about; namely being hung out to dry and likely non-renewed, if not immediately cancelled, by AAA.

Finally, given your experience and expertise, not to mention your CPUC status, would you agree that the OP should be shopping for rideshare insurance with a company that offers it, rather than seeking validation of his scheme to knowingly violate the terms of his AAA policy? That has been my main argument to him throughout these threads.

I have enjoyed the discussion. Thanks for your input!


----------



## SoCalDriver562

Damn 2Peeks just school Older Chauffer! That was downright hilarious. Looks like we win Old Chaffeur!! Thanks for commenting however!

I love being right! HaHa!


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Damn 2Peeks just school Older Chauffer! That was downright hilarious. Looks like we win Old Chaffeur!! Thanks for commenting however!
> 
> I love being right! HaHa!


Hey, if you feel you "won," good for you. You asked for advice and were given it by several members. What you do with it is up to you.
Just for the record, I believe 2Peaks and I are agree on most points.
Have a great day, and drive safely.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

You have a great day too!


----------



## SoCalDriver562

So I talked to another adjuster buddy of mine. He said the same thing. You'd be a fool to get extra insurance unless you're putting thousands of miles on it per week.

I told you old chauffeur! sometimes you just need to sit down and listen.


----------



## 2Peaks

no, I do not agree with you, SoCal. The old man has some good points.

Fun how you have so many "adjuster buddy"s. I have years of company experience and still don't seem to know as many adjusters as you. But of the many I have worked with none could *ever* tell me what coverages to purchase.

If you know and understand your exposures, do what you will do. The following is a comment, not insurance advice. As I said above, the more you really need coverage, the more likely a company will ask about driving.

And then there are plaintiff attorneys!

Old man, the terms "agents", "brokers" and "producers" get used interchangeably in some parts. Technically different but still similar. No offense meant. But it is CPCU, not CPUC.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

I'm just busting his chops. I've learned a lot from this thread. I only Uber / Lyft part time and don't think additional insurance is necessarily important unless this is your full time gig. 

There's a lot of grey area that the Ride share companies need to figure out. I think we can all agree on that.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

The only "grey area" in this matter seems to be my hair. Your Auto Club policy spells it out in black and white. I'm going to take your advice and sit down and listen to an insurance rep at my local AAA office. Let's hope all you bust is my chops.

2Peaks, sorry for mixing up the letters- I think I had it correct, and then changed it 'cause it didn't look right. Should have checked your post for the order.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

Let's schedule a meetup at AAA. I can come up to the valley. What do you say?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Let's schedule a meetup at AAA. I can come up to the valley. What do you say?


Well, I just came home from a visit to my local AAAoffice and found your post. The rep told me just what I have been saying all along, which is that they don't cover any driving for hire. Uber, Lyft, delivery of pizzas, newspapers, packages etc are excluded from coverage.
As to your question about how they would find out, he suggested that you call this number: 1-800-672-5246 to see if they are willing to share their methods and procedures and explain how claims are investigated.

The guy I spoke to said they have no claims people in our local office. Maybe you are near a larger office where they might have someone to talk to in person. So give it a try and we can compare notes after to see if my guy gave me the straight skinny. He said they do have people asking about driving Uber on their AAA policies, and they are told there is no coverage.

Here's the bottom line, IMHO: could you have a serious at-fault accident in Period 1 (app on; no pax), sneak it by AAA and have them cover your totaled car and injuries to yourself and injuries/property damage for others? Possibly. Could you be left holding a huge bag? Yep. (I'm talking about judgements exceeding Uber's lower Period 1 limits and Uber being able to weasle out from paying for your car because you had no collision coverage. I have no knowledge/examples of this either way.)

Not a chance I would take, but I'm old and trying to hang onto my home and other assets. That's why I have high coverage limits and an umbrella policy. You, OTOH, have longer to recover from a possible catastrophic incident, and a more optimistic perspective than do I.  Admittedly, even if I was covered by AAA insurance, I'm not ready to allow strangers to destroy my car for the pittance Uber pays in the first place. Again, all just my humble opinion.

Let us know what you find out.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Let's schedule a meetup at AAA. I can come up to the valley. What do you say?


Just had an idea- you aren't that far from the Auto Club HQ in Costa Mesa. They must have claims folks there with whom you could have an in-person conversation, if you choose that over a phone call.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

Old Chaffeur!! Your a hater. I reckon you were born in the 40's or 50's. My parents wre born in the 40's, but don't hate, appreciate!

Does that make any sense?


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Old Chaffeur!! Your a hater. I reckon you were born in the 40's or 50's. My parents wre born in the 40's, but don't hate, appreciate!
> 
> Does that make any sense?


I don't get it. Why am I a hater because I'm telling you the truth? Just trying to keep you out of trouble, like I would my kids, in the same situation.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

I'd say most of Uber & Lyft drivers don't have extra insurance.


----------



## SoCalDriver562

You're a hater just cuz you are.. Plain and simple bro!


----------



## SEAL Team 5

SoCalDriver562 said:


> You're a hater just cuz you are.. Plain and simple bro!


Remember this, Haters Lives Matters!!!


----------



## Older Chauffeur

2Peaks and SoCal,
Here's a source of possible interest on the subject of this thread. Maybe a subpoena isn't needed, as the law in CA requires Transportation Network Companies to cooperate with insurance companies investigating accidents. This is spelled out near the bottom of the page. I found it while looking for the part that member "Holden" claims makes it illegal for insurance companies in CA to drop one for doing rideshare, as they now have no exposure without a rideshare endorsement. Still haven't found anything about that part of the law.

http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=3802


----------



## SFAgentKyle

SoCalDriver562 said:


> No one can give me a legitimate answer on how your insurance company would know you were in phase 1.. Just sayin'.





2Peaks said:


> How would your insurance company know you are phase 1?
> 
> They might not. But know this. As severity of an accident goes up, the amount of research increases exponentially, not linear. They may or may not ask you about TNC driving depending on the severity.
> 
> If it is a parking lot type accident, they may never know. If bodily injury to you or other car driver comes into play there will be more questions. Also, sometimes the police take photos. They might just show the trade dress sticker in your window that you forgot about after your airbag blew off in your face.
> 
> All of the above does not address your UM, Med Pay and Physical Damage exposures, or, in some states, your no-fault coverages.
> 
> As for a supheona for TNC records, don't practice law without a license.
> As for insurance advice, don't give it without a license.





Older Chauffeur said:


> 2Peaks and SoCal,
> Here's a source of possible interest on the subject of this thread. Maybe a subpoena isn't needed, as the law in CA requires Transportation Network Companies to cooperate with insurance companies investigating accidents. This is spelled out near the bottom of the page. I found it while looking for the part that member "Holden" claims makes it illegal for insurance companies in CA to drop one for doing rideshare, as they now have no exposure without a rideshare endorsement. Still haven't found anything about that part of the law.
> 
> http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=3802


Just a couple points to interject from a "licensed" insurance agent who works with a lot of rideshare drivers...

1. Insurance companies can check consumer databases that will show information regarding your rideshare driving... There are several things that are tracked. One of which is that TNC's ping your DMV and background info. 
TNC's are required to provide info to insurance companies.. its not a matter of subpoena, its much simpler than that. If an insurance company suspects you may be driving for rideshare, you will be stuck without a vehicle and a way to make money until they complete their investigation. The laws are in the insurance companies favor on this one, so they can take the time they feel they need.

2. If you are in a major accident and your car gets towed away, that wonderful trade dress in the window is visible when the adjuster goes to look at it or if any one else happens to take a photo (police, tow driver, other driver, etc). Having your car totalled out with no payment could wreck you... especially if you have a loan and the bank demands you pay it off.

3. Its insurance fraud to provide false info to the insurance company about a claim.

You may get away with not having proper rideshare coverage, but the odds are increasingly stacked against you. I have personally heard many stories of drivers who got "caught".

Think worst case scenario, not best case scenario. This is your business and your livelyhood. You should properly protect it.. AND it's tax deductible.

Good luck... My office is always available to answer questions.

(877) 355-1009


----------



## toyotarola

Yes, good luck to all drivers taking chances in Phase 1 without proper insurance. The attitude of the OP should appall anyone who knows what liability and risk is all about. A hint: it's probabilistic, which means it doesn't necessarily matter how often you drive, just that you have at least some lottery tickets for the "jackpot" of your life.


----------



## TheCornKing

I dont even understand why people bother driving for either company,.In the long run you dont make a dime.. Your not a contractor your not an employee.. As soon as you accept a ride you should be covered under their policy, cause the fact is you are working for them at that point, you didn't just happen to drive to a customers pickup address did you.. 
we take all of the risk its our time our car our repair bill our insurance our gas our depreciation on a vehicle that now has 3 times the acceptable miles on it.. they get more than 1/2 the money, all of the ride for safety money.. We make less than minimum wage (sitting and waiting , driving home, getting gas, cleaning your car Etc...) all those things we do for/to the vehicle is time and $ we are spending.. 

Its a Scam job...... Are people so lazy that the lour of "Pick your own hours"- "be your own boss" make us slaves for them to earn poverty level money,
Wake up,,, they brought in over 10 Billion dollars in 2015 and an Est of 26 billion for 2016.. let say they pay out 75%,, that means they kept 2.6 billion in 2015 and will pocket 6 Billion + dollars this year. With less than 2000 investors not including RSU share holders,, thats a big big pay out.. and remember the also keep the safe rider fee so tack on another 1.20$ times 1 billion+ rides in 2015... 
And you netted how much last year from working for uber????


----------



## Older Chauffeur

TheCornKing said:


> As soon as you accept a ride you should be covered under their policy, cause the fact is you are working for them at that point, you didn't just happen to drive to a customers pickup address did you..


Once you accept a ride, you ARE covered by their insurance, because you are then in period 2. At least that's the way I understand it.


----------



## phillipzx3

Older Chauffeur said:


> Once you accept a ride, you ARE covered by their insurance, because you are then in period 2. At least that's the way I understand it.


Sure you are. And James River can sue the Uber driver to recover any money they (might) pay on any claim.

Any Uber driver who believes he/she is "covered" by insurance in ANY period, has their head buried in the sand.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

phillipzx3 said:


> Sure you are. And James River can sue the Uber driver to recover any money they (might) pay on any claim.
> 
> Any Uber driver who believes he/she is "covered" by insurance in ANY period, has their head buried in the sand.


Granted, it's mainly about liability for Uber and medical for the pax, but it meets the requirements. Have you anything to support your claim of JR suing drivers?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

SoCalDriver562 said:


> So why don't they let their "employees" know. Considering they're such a massive business. I don't get it!


It's very easy to get: UBER DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT DRIVERS!

Why is this such a difficult concept for so many of you?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Old Chaffeur!! Your a hater. I reckon you were born in the 40's or 50's. My parents wre born in the 40's, but don't hate, appreciate!
> 
> Does that make any sense?


No.


----------



## ChortlingCrison

SoCalDriver562 said:


> You're a hater just cuz you are.. Plain and simple bro!


hater of what?


----------



## Uberdude1267

observer said:


> Yupp it's a CPUC reg.
> 
> *Insurance Requirements for TNCs*
> *The current insurance requirements are summarized below:*
> TNC services are defined by three periods:
> 
> Period 1: App open - waiting for a match.
> 
> 
> Period 1 - TNCs shall provide primary insurance in the amount of at least fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) for death and personal injury per person, one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) for death and personal injury per incident, and thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) for property damage. TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC that provides coverage if a driver does not maintain the required TNC insurance, or if the driver's TNC insurance ceases to exist or is cancelled; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).
> TNCs shall also maintain insurance coverage that provides excess coverage insuring the TNC and the driver in the amount of at least two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) per occurrence to cover any liability arising from a participating driver using a vehicle in connection with a TNC's online-enabled application or platform. TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver, if the TNC verifies that the driver's TNC insurance covers the driver's use of a vehicle for TNC services; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).
> Period 2: Match accepted - but passenger not yet picked up (i.e. driver is on his/her way to pick up the passenger).
> 
> Period 3: Passenger in the vehicle and until the passenger exits the vehicle.
> 
> 
> Periods 2 and 3 - TNCs must provide primary commercial insurance in the amount of one million dollars ($1,000,000). TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver, if the TNC verifies that the driver's TNC insurance covers the driver's use of a vehicle for TNC services; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b).
> Period 3 - TNCs shall also provide uninsured motorist coverage and underinsured motorist coverage in the amount of one million dollars ($1,000,000) during Period 3 (i.e., from the moment a passenger enters the vehicle until the passenger exits the vehicle). TNCs may satisfy this requirement through: (a) TNC insurance maintained by the driver, if the TNC verifies that the driver's TNC insurance covers the driver's use of a vehicle for TNC services; (b) TNC insurance maintained by the TNC; or (c) a combination of (a) and (b). The policy may also provide this coverage during any other time period, if requested by a participating driver relative to insurance maintained by the driver.
> 
> Other requirements related to TNC insurance:
> 
> TNCs shall disclose to their drivers:
> 
> 
> the insurance coverage and limits of liability that the TNC provides while the driver uses a vehicle in connection with a TNC's online-enabled application or platform.
> that the driver's personal automobile insurance policy will not provide coverage because the driver uses a vehicle in connection with a TNC's online-enabled application or platform.
> 
> that the driver's personal automobile insurance policy will not provide collision or comprehensive coverage for damage to the vehicle used by the driver from the moment the driver logs on to the TNC's online-enabled application or platform to the moment the driver logs off the TNC's online-enabled application or platform. (Public Utilities Code Section 5432)
> 
> In a claims coverage investigation, a TNC or its insurer shall cooperate with insurers that are involved in the claims coverage investigation to facilitate the exchange of information. (Public Utilities Code Section 5435)
> 
> TNC drivers shall be required to provide proof of both their personal insurance and the commercial insurance in the case of an accident. (Decision 13-09-045 Safety Requirement b)


This is CA law? I'm in Miami and am a recently new driver. Just found out recently I'm pretty much screwed in terms of coverage currently (James River, my personal coverage).


----------



## observer

Uberdude1267 said:


> This is CA law? I'm in Miami and am a recently new driver. Just found out recently I'm pretty much screwed in terms of coverage currently (James River, my personal coverage).


Yes, it's a CPUC reg. California Public Utilities Commission. I read somewhere in last couple days, that there is insurance available now in FL.


----------



## Uberdude1267

observer said:


> Yes, it's a CPUC reg. California Public Utilities Commission. I read somewhere in last couple days, that there is insurance available now in FL.


I called Allstate yesterday and they said they don't do it at all. I'll have to Google it or contact our partner, the U (laughing hysterically) to see if they have any information about it.


----------



## phillipzx3

Older Chauffeur said:


> Granted, it's mainly about liability for Uber and medical for the pax, but it meets the requirements. Have you anything to support your claim of JR suing drivers?


Ya....read the policy from James River. You DID read it before driving for Uber, right


----------



## observer

Uberdude1267 said:


> I called Allstate yesterday and they said they don't do it at all. I'll have to Google it or contact our partner, the U (laughing hysterically) to see if they have any information about it.


Call Foremost Insurance, they are a subsidiary of Farmers. I think they offer TNC.

http://www.foremost.com


----------



## observer

https://uberpeople.net/threads/florida-rideshare-insurance-now-available.92276/


----------



## Older Chauffeur

phillipzx3 said:


> Ya....read the policy from James River. You DID read it before driving for Uber, right


Actually, I have not been able to find the policy online; rather only articles about it. That's why I asked. You are the only poster to mention it. Ramzfanz and others have written extensively about insurance issues, but not about JR suing a driver.
If you read my signature, you'll see that I don't drive for Uber/Lyft. I drive privately for a small clientele.


----------



## phillipzx3

Older Chauffeur said:


> Actually, I have not been able to find the policy online; rather only articles about it. That's why I asked. You are the only poster to mention it. Ramzfanz and others have written extensively about insurance issues, but not about JR suing a driver.
> If you read my signature, you'll see that I don't drive for Uber/Lyft. I drive privately for a small clientele.


Give me a bit and I'll edit this post with the text from their policy. Sorry for the assumption.

***

Damage or Injury Claims

You shall be liable to the User for all claims of damage and/or injury to any User sustained while being transported by you. You agree to notify the Company of any damage or injury as soon as practicable after the damage or injury occurs. You understand that insurance may or may not provide coverage for damage or injury, or it may provide coverage for some, but not all, damage or injury.

You agree to fully cooperate with the User and/or the Company to resolve injury or damage claims as quickly as possible. You further acknowledge that, in the event of damage or an insurance claim, the Company may inform your insurance provider, or the insurance provider of any other party involved, of the claim and provide information about your acceptance or performance of a Request at the time of the damage or incident underlying a claim.

You agree that, in the event the Company is held liable for any injury or damage to any person caused by you, the Company shall have the right to recover such amount from you. Similarly, should the Company voluntarily elect to pay any amount owed to any person for damage or injury to that person caused by you or for which you are responsible and/or liable, the Company shall have the same right as the injured party to recover from you (i.e., the Company stands in the shoes of the injured party).

***

This is why we snicker everytime an Uber driver makes the claim " I'm covered in period x by Uber."

Had they actually read the policy they'd understand Uber (James River) can toss them under the bus, if they choose to do so.

We've been hit by 6 Uber drivers so far. We've learned the hard way what crap they have for insurance.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

Uberdude1267 said:


> I called Allstate yesterday and they said they don't do it at all. I'll have to Google it or contact our partner, the U (laughing hysterically) to see if they have any information about it.


Speaking of "The U". They got ripped off in that game with the Noles last Saturday Night. That was not holding on that delayed run for a TD. One thing you can count on though. When FL schools play each other there is definitely no love lost. There were some vicious hits in that game. I've been watching that series for years. Kind of grew up in a divided house. My dad went to The U and my mom was FSU.


----------



## Uberdude1267

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Speaking of "The U". They got ripped off in that game with the Noles last Saturday Night. That was not holding on that delayed run for a TD. One thing you can count on though. When FL schools play each other there is definitely no love lost. There were some vicious hits in that game. I've been watching that series for years. Kind of grew up in a divided house. My dad went to The U and my mom was FSU.


Off topic (not that I mind) but those running plays with Kayaa then doing the fake pass were driving me nuts. They just weren't fooling their defense all game long. Stinks the way we lost but at least we are finally looking like a pretty good team and are somewhat relevant.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

phillipzx3 said:


> Give me a bit and I'll edit this post with the text from their policy. Sorry for the assumption.
> 
> ***
> 
> Damage or Injury Claims
> 
> You shall be liable to the User for all claims of damage and/or injury to any User sustained while being transported by you. You agree to notify the Company of any damage or injury as soon as practicable after the damage or injury occurs. You understand that insurance may or may not provide coverage for damage or injury, or it may provide coverage for some, but not all, damage or injury.
> 
> You agree to fully cooperate with the User and/or the Company to resolve injury or damage claims as quickly as possible. You further acknowledge that, in the event of damage or an insurance claim, the Company may inform your insurance provider, or the insurance provider of any other party involved, of the claim and provide information about your acceptance or performance of a Request at the time of the damage or incident underlying a claim.
> 
> You agree that, in the event the Company is held liable for any injury or damage to any person caused by you, the Company shall have the right to recover such amount from you. Similarly, should the Company voluntarily elect to pay any amount owed to any person for damage or injury to that person caused by you or for which you are responsible and/or liable, the Company shall have the same right as the injured party to recover from you (i.e., the Company stands in the shoes of the injured party).
> 
> ***
> 
> This is why we snicker everytime an Uber driver makes the claim " I'm covered in period x by Uber."
> 
> Had they actually read the policy they'd understand Uber (James River) can toss them under the bus, if they choose to do so.
> 
> We've been hit by 6 Uber drivers so far. We've learned the hard way what crap they have for insurance.


This is incredible. In the incidents involving the six Uber drivers, have your claims been paid by Uber/JR? Are you in the transportation business, per chance?

Thanks for posting the text of their policy. It's hard to believe anyone could read that and still agree to drive for them.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

Older Chauffeur said:


> It's hard to believe anyone could read that and still agree to drive for them.


Not really. By the majority of post in this forum it's hard to believe that anyone could comprehend the insurance section of the agreement.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Not really. By the majority of post in this forum it's hard to believe that anyone could comprehend the insurance section of the agreement.


I hear (read) you, but, geez.... it's fairly plain English, as boilerplate goes. Maybe it should be like the forms you sign at some medical facilities, where you have to initial some important paragraphs.

OTOH, Uber/JR will have a tough time getting blood out of turnips.....


----------



## SFAgentKyle

phillipzx3 said:


> Give me a bit and I'll edit this post with the text from their policy. Sorry for the assumption.
> 
> ***
> 
> Damage or Injury Claims
> 
> You shall be liable to the User for all claims of damage and/or injury to any User sustained while being transported by you. You agree to notify the Company of any damage or injury as soon as practicable after the damage or injury occurs. You understand that insurance may or may not provide coverage for damage or injury, or it may provide coverage for some, but not all, damage or injury.
> 
> You agree to fully cooperate with the User and/or the Company to resolve injury or damage claims as quickly as possible. You further acknowledge that, in the event of damage or an insurance claim, the Company may inform your insurance provider, or the insurance provider of any other party involved, of the claim and provide information about your acceptance or performance of a Request at the time of the damage or incident underlying a claim.
> 
> You agree that, in the event the Company is held liable for any injury or damage to any person caused by you, the Company shall have the right to recover such amount from you. Similarly, should the Company voluntarily elect to pay any amount owed to any person for damage or injury to that person caused by you or for which you are responsible and/or liable, the Company shall have the same right as the injured party to recover from you (i.e., the Company stands in the shoes of the injured party).
> 
> ***
> 
> This is why we snicker everytime an Uber driver makes the claim " I'm covered in period x by Uber."
> 
> Had they actually read the policy they'd understand Uber (James River) can toss them under the bus, if they choose to do so.
> 
> We've been hit by 6 Uber drivers so far. We've learned the hard way what crap they have for insurance.


Can you reference where you are getting this policy language from? I have read a few different versions of the James River policy in the past and I'm not familiar with this section. Is there somewhere online that you are seeing this, or do you have a copy that you can share?


----------



## phillipzx3

Older Chauffeur said:


> This is incredible. In the incidents involving the six Uber drivers, have your claims been paid by Uber/JR? Are you in the transportation business, per chance?
> 
> Thanks for posting the text of their policy. It's hard to believe anyone could read that and still agree to drive for them.


Yes. I'm part of a 300 car owner/operator cab company. No, we haven't been paid. Uber dares us to take them to court knowing full well we can't absorb the legal cost.

We also don't have 'million dollar medallions" like Uber drivers seem to believe is the industry standard.


----------



## phillipzx3

SFAgentKyle said:


> Can you reference where you are getting this policy language from? I have read a few different versions of the James River policy in the past and I'm not familiar with this section. Is there somewhere online that you are seeing this, or do you have a copy that you can share?


Give me a few days and I'll ask our legal-eagle who showed it to me. She got a copy of the James River policy (for Oregon) a few weeks ago and went through it.


----------



## SFAgentKyle

phillipzx3 said:


> Give me a bit and I'll edit this post with the text from their policy. Sorry for the assumption.
> 
> ***
> 
> Damage or Injury Claims
> 
> You shall be liable to the User for all claims of damage and/or injury to any User sustained while being transported by you. You agree to notify the Company of any damage or injury as soon as practicable after the damage or injury occurs. You understand that insurance may or may not provide coverage for damage or injury, or it may provide coverage for some, but not all, damage or injury.
> 
> You agree to fully cooperate with the User and/or the Company to resolve injury or damage claims as quickly as possible. You further acknowledge that, in the event of damage or an insurance claim, the Company may inform your insurance provider, or the insurance provider of any other party involved, of the claim and provide information about your acceptance or performance of a Request at the time of the damage or incident underlying a claim.
> 
> You agree that, in the event the Company is held liable for any injury or damage to any person caused by you, the Company shall have the right to recover such amount from you. Similarly, should the Company voluntarily elect to pay any amount owed to any person for damage or injury to that person caused by you or for which you are responsible and/or liable, the Company shall have the same right as the injured party to recover from you (i.e., the Company stands in the shoes of the injured party).
> 
> ***
> 
> This is why we snicker everytime an Uber driver makes the claim " I'm covered in period x by Uber."
> 
> Had they actually read the policy they'd understand Uber (James River) can toss them under the bus, if they choose to do so.
> 
> We've been hit by 6 Uber drivers so far. We've learned the hard way what crap they have for insurance.





phillipzx3 said:


> Give me a few days and I'll ask our legal-eagle who showed it to me. She got a copy of the James River policy (for Oregon) a few weeks ago and went through it.


I'd like to see some of that actual policy posted on this thread. I am skeptical as to the validity of this wording.

Nothing personal, but there is a lot of misinformation put out on these forums and its important to validate.

I have read the most recent version of the policy in California and I can tell you that it contains no such wording


----------



## OC Lady Uber Driver

phillipzx3 said:


> Give me a few days and I'll ask our legal-eagle who showed it to me. She got a copy of the James River policy (for Oregon) a few weeks ago and went through it.


There's a clue... that policy was made in Oregon. Each state has it own JR binder.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

phillipzx3 said:


> Yes. I'm part of a 300 car owner/operator cab company. No, we haven't been paid. Uber dares us to take them to court knowing full well we can't absorb the legal cost.
> 
> We also don't have 'million dollar medallions" like Uber drivers seem to believe is the industry standard.


That really stinks. Assuming their driver is clearly at fault, could you sue with the loser paying all costs? Or go to small claims to recover at least a few thousand dollars? How about your own insurance company going after them? Something doesn't seem right. (Not doubting your story, just the position JR has put you in seems totally unfair.)


----------



## phillipzx3

OC Lady Uber Driver said:


> There's a clue... that policy was made in Oregon. Each state has it own JR binder.


Well, I do work in Oregon.


----------



## steveK2016

SoCalDriver562 said:


> I'm just busting his chops. I've learned a lot from this thread. I only Uber / Lyft part time and don't think additional insurance is necessarily important unless this is your full time gig.
> 
> There's a lot of grey area that the Ride share companies need to figure out. I think we can all agree on that.


It only takes one nasty accident and you are SOL.

I used to not get rental insurance until a property required it about 2 years ago. Shortly after, my building burns to the ground. Electrical issues in an apartment adjacent to me. Total loss. Thank god I had adequate insurance. I''ll never NOT have rental insurance ever again, required by management or otherwise.

Until you've needed an insurance payout, you may never grasp how devastating things would be if you weren't covered. Imagine if you just had a momentary laps of ability and you Tbone a 100k Porsche. You vehicle, gone. Liability to the Porsche owner, their medical bills... you'll be in absolute ruin. Is that worth risking to save few extra bucks instead of getting Rideshare coverage?

It's easy to live fast and loose when you're young. I'm not that old, but I know and appreciate being fully covered in anything I do. You have the opportunity to learn the easy way by taking advise from this forum or you can learn the hard way....


----------



## Older Chauffeur

^^^^ Well said!


----------



## steveK2016

Older Chauffeur said:


> ^^^^ Well said!


In this life, it is better to be over insured than under insured. Unless you make great money (let's say 80k a year) where you have enough disposable income to cover emergencies, then insurance is a necessity to being an adult. If you are making 80k a year or greater, you probably won't be doing Uber, so I think it's safe to bet that SoCalDriver does not have the financial resource to recover from an accident that insurance won't payout.

Sure, you could say "But I'm an excellent driver!" then you have that uninsured motorist slam you from the driver side.... Adios Amigo!


----------



## Older Chauffeur

And you can bet that if you t-boned that $100k Porshe, and it was your fault, your insurer's investigators are going to be all over you, making sure there is no fraud involved, including activities excluded by the policy.
Same thing for your own uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage on your personal policy.


----------



## observer

Bedeeda said:


> I'm very new to Uber and live in Florida. This whole insurance situation has me extremely stressed. Can anyone give me suggestions for a Florida insurance policy that isn't going to bankrupt me.
> 
> Thanks for any help/information you can give a newbie


Check out this thread.
https://uberpeople.net/threads/florida-rideshare-insurance-now-available.92276/


----------



## phillipzx3

SFAgentKyle said:


> Can you reference where you are getting this policy language from? I have read a few different versions of the James River policy in the past and I'm not familiar with this section. Is there somewhere online that you are seeing this, or do you have a copy that you can share?


It's on page 9. I'm assuming you have a copy of the complete agreement? It's 17 pages. This is in the Uber agreement that drivers all say "yes" to so they can make their $90K a year showing the cabs how it's done. ;-)


----------



## Older Chauffeur

phillipzx3 said:


> It's on page 9. I'm assuming you have a copy of the complete agreement? It's 17 pages. This is in the Uber agreement that drivers all say "yes" to so they can make their $90K a year showing the cabs how it's done. ;-)


I Googled "Uber Partner Agreement" so I'm not sure I'm reading exactly what you have. Is it the section paragraph titled "Indemnification?"
This is not the JR insurance policy though, right?


----------



## SEAL Team 5

phillipzx3 said:


> It's on page 9. I'm assuming you have a copy of the complete agreement? It's 17 pages. This is in the Uber agreement that drivers all say "yes" to so they can make their $90K a year showing the cabs how it's done. ;-)


A 17 page commercial policy? That seems kind of short, but that's just Uber short changing their drivers like always. Most commercial driving policies are at least 30 pages. I have 19 forms and endorsements with my policy. A majority of them are at least 2 pages. I think my policy is 33 pages. I can tell without even reading it that Uber's 17 page policy doesn't cover the driver or driver's vehicle for crap.


----------



## phillipzx3

SEAL Team 5 said:


> A 17 page commercial policy? That seems kind of short, but that's just Uber short changing their drivers like always. Most commercial driving policies are at least 30 pages. I have 19 forms and endorsements with my policy. A majority of them are at least 2 pages. I think my policy is 33 pages. I can tell without even reading it that Uber's 17 page policy doesn't cover the driver or driver's vehicle for crap.


Are you looking at the Oregon agreement?

I have the full PDF on my phone. I already posted page 9 a few posts back.

This is the Oregon agreement that all Uber drivers get. I'm guessing none read it.

I haven't seen any agreement other than our State. But I'd think they wouldn't be much, if any, different State to State.


----------



## phillipzx3

Here's a copy of the agreement. Hopefully the upload worked. I haven't tried it before.


----------



## phillipzx3

Older Chauffeur said:


> I Googled "Uber Partner Agreement" so I'm not sure I'm reading exactly what you have. Is it the section paragraph titled "Indemnification?"
> This is not the JR insurance policy though, right?


No. It's the agreement Uber "partners" agree to before they can be activated....so I've been told. They don't make it easy to find from. Like I said, our legal eagles had it.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

phillipzx3 said:


> No. It's the agreement Uber "partners" agree to before they can be activated....so I've been told. They don't make it easy to find from. Like I said, our legal eagles had it.


Okay, just so we're clear, what you first described #86 as James River being able to sue Uber drivers actually comes from Uber/partner agreement, not from the JR insurance policy.

The partner agreement I found didn't have the same wording, but seemed to have the same intent in the short paragraph I mentioned. I wonder what the actual JR insurance policy says. Hard to imagine a court letting them get away with making Uber's independent contractors indemnify them. After all, that's why we have insurance- to pay what we can't afford in case of a serious accident. For that matter, it would be interesting to see how a judge would react to Travis and his high dollar legal team facing off against one of their less-than-minimum-wage drivers to enforce that agreement.

Also hard to imagine the majority of drivers reading, let alone understanding, the entire Uber agreement.


----------



## phillipzx3

^^^^ Yes.


----------



## I_Like_Spam

SoCalDriver562 said:


> How would an insurance company know if you were in phase 1 of an accident (app turned on, havent accepted a ride)? I'm guessing if the police showed up they could see if you had some stickers on, but they couldn't prove that you were in phase 1, correct?
> 
> Couldn't you just report to your car insurance company and your good to go? Makes sense to me.


If its a small accident, a fender bender, I guess there is a pretty good chance yod could get away with it. But if its any kind of big money, it earns a closer look.

But with a small accident, do you really want to risk the costs of a criminal prosecution for a small amount of money?

You have to explain your circumstances to the insurance concern, there is no "right to remain silent" to the insurance company. They won't pay if you don't answer


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

steveK2016 said:


> It only takes one nasty accident and you are SOL.
> 
> I used to not get rental insurance until a property required it about 2 years ago. Shortly after, my building burns to the ground. Electrical issues in an apartment adjacent to me. Total loss. Thank god I had adequate insurance. I''ll never NOT have rental insurance ever again, required by management or otherwise.
> 
> Until you've needed an insurance payout, you may never grasp how devastating things would be if you weren't covered. Imagine if you just had a momentary laps of ability and you Tbone a 100k Porsche. You vehicle, gone. Liability to the Porsche owner, their medical bills... you'll be in absolute ruin. Is that worth risking to save few extra bucks instead of getting Rideshare coverage?
> 
> It's easy to live fast and loose when you're young. I'm not that old, but I know and appreciate being fully covered in anything I do. You have the opportunity to learn the easy way by taking advise from this forum or you can learn the hard way....


I would guess 80 or 90% of people only get state minimum coverage for their vehicles anyway, which is often woefully inadequate depending on the state. If they hit a Porsche or injure anyone (not even that badly) they won't have enough to cover it.


----------



## tinaik

*Mokokoma Mokhonoana said well,
*
The Best Insurance Plans for Small Business Campaigns
"Insurance companies sell what might happen tomorrow"

Indeed, whether its business, health, mortgage, or any other significant phase of life, the role of insurance companies has always proved their mettle in backing up our financial loss and investments in every walk of life. When it comes to insurance plans for professional life, or running a business; many people hold a view that "it's a wastage of money, why to believe in all these supernatural predictions? Hope for the best, and take care of your business"

Though, positive intentions are a key to get success in professional life, but one has to take practical action (as a precautionary step) to avoid disasters, or at least to cover the loss that you can accidentally face anytime.

Let's suppose you're going to start any small business campaign whether its beauty SPA, restaurant/café, or being an entrepreneur if you're going to provide your own catering services; the very first criteria you should take into your consideration is insurance planning.
ne has to take practical action (as a precautionary step) to avoid disasters, or at least to cover the loss that you can accidentally face anytime.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

tinaik said:


> *Mokokoma Mokhonoana said well,*
> 
> The Best Insurance Plans for Small Business Campaigns
> "Insurance companies sell what might happen tomorrow"
> 
> Indeed, whether its business, health, mortgage, or any other significant phase of life, the role of insurance companies has always proved their mettle in backing up our financial loss and investments in every walk of life. When it comes to insurance plans for professional life, or running a business; many people hold a view that "it's a wastage of money, why to believe in all these supernatural predictions? Hope for the best, and take care of your business"
> 
> Though, positive intentions are a key to get success in professional life, but one has to take practical action (as a precautionary step) to avoid disasters, or at least to cover the loss that you can accidentally face anytime.
> 
> Let's suppose you're going to start any small business campaign whether its beauty SPA, restaurant/café, or being an entrepreneur if you're going to provide your own catering services; the very first criteria you should take into your consideration is insurance planning.
> ne has to take practical action (as a precautionary step) to avoid disasters, or at least to cover the loss that you can accidentally face anytime.


What?


----------



## FITS

I only uber part time on Friday and Saturday night for about 5-6 hours each night. Here is what I do. As soon as I dropped off a pax, I go offline (Phase O) and find a spot to park my vehicle before I go online (Phase 1). I also have a dashcam, so the only time I have to worry is during phase 1 when I'm online and my vehicle is park.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

FITS said:


> I only uber part time on Friday and Saturday night for about 5-6 hours each night. Here is what I do. As soon as I dropped off a pax, I go offline (Phase O) and find a spot to park my vehicle before I go online (Phase 1). I also have a dashcam, so the only time I have to worry is during phase 1 when I'm online and my vehicle is park.


If it were just that simple, there would be no need for rideshare policies or endorsements. But if you have an accident during "phase 0" and the claims investigator checks with Uber to see when/where your last ride ended, then what? If your policy excludes rideshare, and you lie to them about it, that could constitute insurance fraud.

It seems to be common now for claims people to contact parties to an accident immediately and record their answers to questions as to what those parties were doing in the area, how the accident happened, etc. As reported in other forums here, one of those questions now asked is if you were driving for a TNC.

Final food for thought- if your car sustains damage in an at-fault accident, who is going to cover it? If it's in Period 1,2, or 3, Uber says they will match your personal insurance. What happens if your insurance denies your claim and cancels because you violated their terms? Even if Uber pays, it's a $1k deductible.


----------



## JanuaryStone

SoCalDriver562 said:


> How would an insurance company know if you were in phase 1 of an accident (app turned on, havent accepted a ride)? I'm guessing if the police showed up they could see if you had some stickers on, but they couldn't prove that you were in phase 1, correct?
> 
> Couldn't you just report to your car insurance company and your good to go? Makes sense to me.


No. The first thing your insurer will do is run your DL and your VIN through a search to see if you or your car is registered as Ride Share participant. Because you didn't tell them in the first place, they will deny your claim regardless of whether or not you were logged in, because you basically lied to them by using your vehicle to earn money and not telling them.


----------



## JanuaryStone

FITS said:


> I only uber part time on Friday and Saturday night for about 5-6 hours each night. Here is what I do. As soon as I dropped off a pax, I go offline (Phase O) and find a spot to park my vehicle before I go online (Phase 1). I also have a dashcam, so the only time I have to worry is during phase 1 when I'm online and my vehicle is park.


Just so you know, UBER'S insurance will not cover damage to your car in any phase if you haven't gone on the record with your own insurer about being a Ride Share Driver. Look it up on the UBER insurance pages, it's right there in black and white: your insurance company has to be ok with you Ride Share driving before Uber will even consider covering damage to your car. The passengers and other vehicles are totally covered by Uber's insurance, but your car wouldn't be, ever, unless you have RSI or something in writing from your insurer that they know you do this. Look it up.


----------



## FITS

Older Chauffeur said:


> If it were just that simple, there would be no need for rideshare policies or endorsements. But if you have an accident during "phase 0" and the claims investigator checks with Uber to see when/where your last ride ended, then what? If your policy excludes rideshare, and you lie to them about it, that could constitute insurance fraud.
> 
> It seems to be common now for claims people to contact parties to an accident immediately and record their answers to questions as to what those parties were doing in the area, how the accident happened, etc. As reported in other forums here, one of those questions now asked is if you were driving for a TNC.
> 
> Final food for thought- if your car sustains damage in an at-fault accident, who is going to cover it? If it's in Period 1,2, or 3, Uber says they will match your personal insurance. What happens if your insurance denies your claim and cancels because you violated their terms? Even if Uber pays, it's a $1k deductible.


Did you not read my comment. I have a dash cam. If I get into a car accident during phase 0 which mean I'm not online and doing uber, personal insurance cover that. If uber track the time of when you are online and when you go offline that would be even better. So why do I need to worry If I get into a car accident during phase o?

I have USAA insurance. On USAA insurance page under vehicle profile there a question that asked "How do you use this vehicle" There are four option: Pleasure/Work/School, Business, Farm, Storage. Here is USAA definition of Please/Work/School: The vehicle is used for personal errands, or to drive to and from work or school, or driving for a transportation network company (TNC) such as Uber, Lyft or Sidecar. Coverage restrictions apply for TNC activities. And this restriction is during unmatched phase of the ride-sharing process phase 1. So my insurance company know that I do uber. They just dont offer ride-sharing insurance where I live.


----------



## FITS

JanuaryStone said:


> Just so you know, UBER'S insurance will not cover damage to your car in any phase if you haven't gone on the record with your own insurer about being a Ride Share Driver. Look it up on the UBER insurance pages, it's right there in black and white: your insurance company has to be ok with you Ride Share driving before Uber will even consider covering damage to your car. The passengers and other vehicles are totally covered by Uber's insurance, but your car wouldn't be, ever, unless you have RSI or something in writing from your insurer that they know you do this. Look it up.


My insurance know that I do uber. They just don't offer rider sharing insurance where I live.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

FITS said:


> Did you not read my comment. I have a dash cam. If I get into a car accident during phase 0 which mean I'm not online and doing uber, personal insurance cover that. If uber track the time of when you are online and when you go offline that would be even better. So why do I need to worry If I get into a car accident during phase o?
> 
> I have USAA insurance. On USAA insurance page under vehicle profile there a question that asked "How do you use this vehicle" There are four option: Pleasure/Work/School, Business, Farm, Storage. Here is USAA definition of Please/Work/School: The vehicle is used for personal errands, or to drive to and from work or school, or driving for a transportation network company (TNC) such as Uber, Lyft or Sidecar. Coverage restrictions apply for TNC activities. And this restriction is during unmatched phase of the ride-sharing process phase 1. So my insurance company know that I do uber.


The dashcam may help determine fault in accident. So what restrictions apply for TNC activities in Period 1?
Parking saves you gas, but what does it have to do with the thread topic, which had to do with your insurance company knowing you are in Period 1?


----------



## FITS

Older Chauffeur said:


> The dashcam may help determine fault in accident. So what restrictions apply for TNC activities in Period 1?
> Parking saves you gas, but what does it have to do with the thread topic, which had to do with your insurance company knowing you are in Period 1?


What are you even talking about? Half of the post here on this thread have nothing to do with this thread topic.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

FITS said:


> What are you even talking about? Half of the post here on this thread have nothing to do with this thread topic.


Okay, so I'm still trying to figure out why you go through the cloak-and-dagger stuff to try to fool your insurance company if they are okay with you doing TNC work. You haven't answered what restrictions they put on it, so I'm going to assume they don't cover any of it. So, it comes back to what I said in post #129- they will investigate to see if you had been doing rideshare around the time of the accident. And, since you have checked the appropriate box (I assume) on your application to indicate TNC use of the vehicle, the investigation will be even easier for them.

At least it appears you won't be cancelled for not telling them about TNC work, so that's a good thing.


----------



## FITS

Older Chauffeur said:


> Okay, so I'm still trying to figure out why you go through the cloak-and-dagger stuff to try to fool your insurance company if they are okay with you doing TNC work. You haven't answered what restrictions they put on it, so I'm going to assume they don't cover any of it. So, it comes back to what I said in post #129- they will investigate to see if you had been doing rideshare around the time of the accident. And, since you have checked the appropriate box (I assume) on your application to indicate TNC use of the vehicle, the investigation will be even easier for them.
> 
> At least it appears you won't be cancelled for not telling them about TNC work, so that's a good thing.


Where did you get the idea that I was trying to fool my insurance company. The restriction was posted on #132. "And this restriction is during unmatched phase of the ride-sharing process phase 1." And if someone doesn't know what that mean when it come to insurance coverage than I dont know what else to say.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

FITS said:


> Where did you get the idea that I was trying to fool my insurance company. The restriction was posted on #132. "And this restriction is during unmatched phase of the ride-sharing process phase 1." And if someone doesn't know what that mean when it come to insurance coverage than I dont know what else to say.


Well, why else would you be turning off the app while driving to a parking lot and then turning it on, so that you only had to "worry" was while you were in phase 1 and parked, other than to fool your insurance company? Worry about what?

As for the coverage restrictions, somewhere in the policy they have to define what those restrictions are. They could restrict anything. Now if it said "exclusions" or "excluded from coverage" and listed TNC driving........


----------



## FITS

Older Chauffeur said:


> Well, why else would you be turning off the app while driving to a parking lot and then turning it on, so that you only had to "worry" was while you were in phase 1 and parked, other than to fool your insurance company? Worry about what?
> 
> As for the coverage restrictions, somewhere in the policy they have to define what those restrictions are. They could restrict anything. Now if it said "exclusions" or "excluded from coverage" and listed TNC driving........


LOL. You make no sense at all. How am I'm fooling my insurance company when they already know I'm doing uber? So you would rather stay online and risk getting into a car accident during phase 1 if you dont have ride-sharing insurance? Or would you rather go offline and get insurance coverage while you find a safety spot to park you vehicle before you go online? It not like I do this full time to require ride-sharing insurance.

You should really stop replying back to my comment because you make no sense at all.

ATTENTION TO ALL: GOING OFFLINE IS NOW CONSIDER FOOLING YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY. I REST MY CASE.


----------



## phillipzx3

FITS said:


> LOL. You make no sense at all. How am I'm fooling my insurance company when they already know I'm doing uber? So you would rather stay online and risk getting into a car accident during phase 1 if you dont have ride-sharing insurance? Or would you rather go offline and get insurance coverage while you find a safety spot to park you vehicle before you go online? It not like I do this full time to require ride-sharing insurance.
> 
> You should really stop replying back to my comment because you make no sense at all.
> 
> ATTENTION TO ALL: GOING OFFLINE IS NOW CONSIDER FOOLING YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY. I REST MY CASE.


You're digging yourself a deeper hole with your BS logic. Your primary insurance company would rather you stay logged in so Uber *might* carry part of the burden. You're trying to avoid being busted using your car as a taxi service. And no matter how catty you think you're being, you're not.


----------



## FITS

phillipzx3 said:


> You're digging yourself a deeper hole with your BS logic. Your primary insurance company would rather you stay logged in so Uber *might* carry part of the burden. You're trying to avoid being busted using your car as a taxi service. And no matter how catty you think you're being, you're not.


So can you provide proof that my insurance would rather want me to stay online during phase 1 while I am driving around to find a parking spot? My insurance company doesn't offer ride-sharing insurance. So what make you think that a insurance company who doesn't offer ride-sharing where I live would want to deal with a accident during phase 1. Your logic is more bs than anyone I ever met. If you cant provide proof, than please do me a favor and stop replying back to my post.


----------



## steveK2016

It's better to be overinsured than underinsured. No matter how safe of a driver you are, there's a reason they call it an accident. 

Its your risk, hope you never have to find out.


----------



## FITS

steveK2016 said:


> It's better to be overinsured than underinsured. No matter how safe of a driver you are, there's a reason they call it an accident.
> 
> Its your risk, hope you never have to find out.


But it not a risk. Have dashcam. Drop pax off, go offline (Phase o: Personal insurance coverage). Drive a few block, park your vehicle, go online (Phase 1: Limited coverage). Accident during phase 0: personal insurance coverage. Accident during pahse 1: Vehicle is parked, not your fault. Uber/you deal with other driver insurance. End of story. Have a good day.


----------



## steveK2016

FITS said:


> But it not a risk. Have dashcam. Drop pax off, go offline (Phase o: Personal insurance coverage). Drive a few block, park your vehicle, go online (Phase 1: Limited coverage). Accident during phase 0: personal insurance coverage. Accident during pahse 1: Vehicle is parked, not your fault. Uber/you deal with other driver insurance. End of story. Have a good day.


As many have stated, insurance adjusters will always find ways and reasons to not pay for coverage. It's not just about not being at fault in any given accident, it's about having further coverage after the fact. It's clear that most insurance company's will do anything to avoid payout and it seems it's become common practice to check if any given party is Ubering. What if the guy that hit you was an uninsured Uber driver? JR is out. Uber is out. Their insurance is out. Your insurance is called, no rideshare insurance? They're out. Now you're sitting there with a damaged vehicle, unable to Uber, car payments mounting up and an insurance cancellation on your record.

Of course, this is all worst case scenarios but isn't that what insurance is for? For worst case scenarios? If you aren't prepared for the worst case scenario, you might as well not even have insurance altogether.

Even if you are offline and not Ubering then get into an accident, your insurance company can still try to get out of it by the fact that you were ridesharing in violation of your agreement with them and have your coverage canceled. That's the risk you are taking.


----------



## FITS

steveK2016 said:


> As many have stated, insurance adjusters will always find ways and reasons to not pay for coverage. It's not just about not being at fault in any given accident, it's about having further coverage after the fact. It's clear that most insurance company's will do anything to avoid payout and it seems it's become common practice to check if any given party is Ubering. What if the guy that hit you was an uninsured Uber driver? JR is out. Uber is out. Their insurance is out. Your insurance is called, no rideshare insurance? They're out. Now you're sitting there with a damaged vehicle, unable to Uber, car payments mounting up and an insurance cancellation on your record.
> 
> Of course, this is all worst case scenarios but isn't that what insurance is for? For worst case scenarios? If you aren't prepared for the worst case scenario, you might as well not even have insurance altogether.


Lol your funny. If you are an uber driver you should know that you are required to upload a copy of your personal insurance (proof of insurance) to uber or else you won't be activate to drive for them. So the chance of getting into a accident with another uninsured uber driver is zero. And if by chance that uber allow an uninsured uber driver to drive for them and got into a car accident with you, that is when you go after uber. And my personal insurance have coverage for uninsured driver. I have no car payment. My vehicle is pay off. Have insurance payment about $106 a month. I uber part time Friday and Saturday for about 5-6 hour each day.



steveK2016 said:


> Even if you are offline and not Ubering then get into an accident, your insurance company can still try to get out of it by the fact that you were ridesharing in violation of your agreement with them and have your coverage canceled. That's the risk you are taking.


You see my insurance company know I do uber. They allow me to do uber. They just dont offer ride-sharing insurance where I live.

"As a reminder, your USAA auto insurance will only cover you while you are using your vehicle for personal reasons. This includes times when the ride sharing app is off (or not available to provide rides) and there are no paying passengers in the vehicle." This is directly from my insurance representative.


----------



## steveK2016

FITS said:


> Lol your funny. If you are an uber driver you should know that you are required to upload a copy of your personal insurance (proof of insurance) to uber or else you won't be activate to drive for them. So the chance of getting into a accident with another uninsured uber driver is zero. And if by chance that uber allow an uninsured uber driver to drive for them and got into a car accident with you, that is when you go after uber. And my personal insurance have coverage for uninsured driver. I have no car payment. My vehicle is pay off. Have insurance payment about $106 a month. I uber part time Friday and Saturday for about 5-6 hour each day.
> 
> You see my insurance company know I do uber. They allow me to do uber. They just dont offer ride-sharing insurance where I live.
> 
> "As a reminder, your USAA auto insurance will only cover you while you are using your vehicle for personal reasons. This includes times when the ride sharing app is off (or not available to provide rides) and there are no paying passengers in the vehicle." This is directly from my insurance representative.


By uninsured, I mean without ride share insurance.

You'd be surprised how many uber drivers there are, particularly in a given area at a given time. You could have just dropped a pax off and went into phase one when "wham" uber driver coming up to pickup his pax miscalculated and hits you. He didn't have USAA or ride share insurance.

Now what your rep says and what your contract says are two different things. Does your contract stipulate that you will not be canceled for doing ride share but just not covered while in phase 1 through 3? Because no matter how many reps might say it, the contract is what's binding.


----------



## FITS

steveK2016 said:


> By uninsured, I mean without ride share insurance.
> 
> You'd be surprised how many uber drivers there are, particularly in a given area at a given time. You could have just dropped a pax off and went into phase one when "wham" uber driver coming up to drop his pax miscalculated and hit you. He didn't have USAA or ride share insurance.


That uber driver will be in phase 3 which is coverage by JR. Even thought I will be in phase 1, he is the one who cause the accident therefore we both get with JR. Look at the picture below. That is why during phase 1, my vehicle will be parked therefore if it a accident, it won't be me who cause it and I can file a claim again that person insurance. And for god sake if that person doesn't have insurance and refuse to pay for the damage during phase 1, I will take them to a small claim court.


----------



## Rat

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Do you think the police report will say that he had an uber sticker. Do you really think they'll subpoena Uber records?
> 
> One thing that I do, is go across the street and park until I get pinged. So I'm rarely in phase 1.
> 
> One other question is why isn't Uber and Lyft more upfront about this? I feel like they aren't very upfront with this.


How do you get pinged unless the app is on?


----------



## steveK2016

FITS said:


> That uber driver will be in phase 3 which is coverage by JR. Even thought I will be in phase 1, he is the one who cause the accident therefore we both get with JR. Look at the picture below. That is why during phase 1, my vehicle will be parked therefore if it a accident, it won't be me who cause it and I can file a claim again that person insurance. And for god sake if that person doesn't have insurance and refuse to pay for the damage during phase 1, I will take them to a small claim court.
> View attachment 72970


IF USAA truly has no problem with you running rideshare without actually having rideshare endorsement with them, then you're fine but if I were you, I would look for the specific clause within your contract that specifically says that. I would not go by just what a rep told you. If that's the case, you're good to go but in 95% of other cases, for people without USAA, they will more than likely be SOL.


----------



## Rat

SoCalDriver562 said:


> There you have it. I just think if they're putting the drivers at a real risk, they should let them know. I didn't know any of this possible "uninsured" until I came on this message board. I'm sure theres a huge number of people have no idea what there's such a thing as ride-share insurance.
> 
> I guess my point is, unless they can prove that your in phase 1, they can't deny the claim.


They can prove you're in period 1. Then they can charge you with insurance fraud just for filing the claim.


----------



## Rat

observer said:


> This is CPUC website where I pulled that previous post,
> 
> http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=3802


This only applies in California


----------



## tohunt4me

SoCalDriver562 said:


> How would an insurance company know if you were in phase 1 of an accident (app turned on, havent accepted a ride)? I'm guessing if the police showed up they could see if you had some stickers on, but they couldn't prove that you were in phase 1, correct?
> 
> Couldn't you just report to your car insurance company and your good to go? Makes sense to me.


Uber will SELL them the data.
Along with " Harsh Acceleration" reports. All while lobbying to make humans driving illegal !


----------



## Rat

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Thanks for the advice, the issue is that I've already paid for the year of AAA through my old company. It would be difficult to change insurance companies until next June 2017. Main issue there.
> 
> Any ideas how I would go about that?


My new insurance agent did it all for me. Sent me forms to cancel old insurance. Did it all over the Internet. Easy Peasy


----------



## Rat

SoCalDriver562 said:


> No one can give me a legitimate answer on how your insurance company would know you were in phase 1.. Just sayin'.


Uber or Lyft will tell them


----------



## Rat

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Yeah maybe. I just feel that you might be a tad bit "OLD FASHIONED".


Honesty is "OLD FASHIONED"?


----------



## Rat

SoCalDriver562 said:


> Damn 2Peeks just school Older Chauffer! That was downright hilarious. Looks like we win Old Chaffeur!! Thanks for commenting however!
> 
> I love being right! HaHa!


Do you love being on the hook for potentially tens of thousands?


----------



## Rat

SoCalDriver562 said:


> You're a hater just cuz you are.. Plain and simple bro!


He hasn't said anything hateful, but you have. He gave you good advice and then you insult him.


----------



## Rat

TheCornKing said:


> I dont even understand why people bother driving for either company,.In the long run you dont make a dime.. Your not a contractor your not an employee.. As soon as you accept a ride you should be covered under their policy, cause the fact is you are working for them at that point, you didn't just happen to drive to a customers pickup address did you..
> we take all of the risk its our time our car our repair bill our insurance our gas our depreciation on a vehicle that now has 3 times the acceptable miles on it.. they get more than 1/2 the money, all of the ride for safety money.. We make less than minimum wage (sitting and waiting , driving home, getting gas, cleaning your car Etc...) all those things we do for/to the vehicle is time and $ we are spending..
> 
> Its a Scam job...... Are people so lazy that the lour of "Pick your own hours"- "be your own boss" make us slaves for them to earn poverty level money,
> Wake up,,, they brought in over 10 Billion dollars in 2015 and an Est of 26 billion for 2016.. let say they pay out 75%,, that means they kept 2.6 billion in 2015 and will pocket 6 Billion + dollars this year. With less than 2000 investors not including RSU share holders,, thats a big big pay out.. and remember the also keep the safe rider fee so tack on another 1.20$ times 1 billion+ rides in 2015...
> And you netted how much last year from working for uber????


All your numbers were pull ed out of thin air


----------



## observer

Rat said:


> This only applies in California


Yes, the OP is in California.


----------

