# The cost to drive is not $0.535 per mile



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

I had questions concerning the difference between business mileage rates and medical/moving mileage rates. I got some information straight from the IRS.

The IRS doesn't do the calculations themselves, they hire an independent contractor.

The biggest piece of info I found was that depreciation for business mileage is calculated to be $0.25 / mile for 2017. That's roughly 45% of the cost to drive per the IRS.

Insurance is 12% ($0.064/mile). License, registration and taxes was 7% ($0.037/mile).

Fuel is 30% ($0.161/mile). Tires and maintenance is 6% ($0.032/mile).
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Its seems to me that the depreciation rate is very high. For example, take a typical UberX car. A 5 year old Prius with 60,000 miles on the odometer is worth $8,718 as a trade-in. A 5 year old Prius with 160,000 miles on the odometer is worth $4,288 as a trade-in. The depreciation rate over those 100,000 miles is $0.044/mile. That's less than a nickel per mile vs. the IRS's quarter per mile. Huge difference.

Many of us use our personal car for Ubering. The insurance, license, registration and taxes are paid and are not a cost to drive for Uber. That is 19% ($0.101/mile) of the deduction leaving $0.434/mile.

If gas costs $3.50/gal and you get 21 mpg, it will cost roughly $0.16 for fuel per mile. I think Uber drivers do better but I'll use these numbers.

IRS
---
depr: $0.25
insur: 0.064
tax: 0.037
gas: 0.161
maint: 0.032
total = $0.544 (rounding errors involved, but close)

Uber
----
depr: $0.05
insur: 0
tax: 0
gas: 0.161
maint: 0.032
total = $0.243

Of course, if you add additional insurance to Uber or have to buy a business permit, those have to added. On the other hand, gas here is $2.50 per gallon and I get 33 mpg which would drop the gas from $0.161 to $0.076, a savings of another $0.085 bring the cost to drive a mile for Uber to $0.158 per mile.

The standard mileage deduction for medical/moving expenses is $0.17/mile. It uses the same formula but doesn't include the fixed costs (insurance, taxes, etc.). The biggest difference, I'm guessing here, is depreciation. The typical business car is a new, luxury car on a three year lease - very expensive to drive per mile. It costs thousands just driving it off the lot. The typical medical/moving car is the typical personal car, not a new or luxury car.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

You're absolutely correct. For some people it's more than $.535. For most it's less, for some it's way less. I've tried, and failed to explain this in depth in this thread, for example:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/long-trip-return-fee.196837/

I created a scenario in a prius like you did, also: https://uberpeople.net/threads/long-trip-return-fee.196837/#post-2943657

There is what I've seen somebody else here call a "cult" of IRS mileage people. By this the person means some people insist, despite rational analysis and mathematics, that cars cost $.54 mile to run because that's the IRS deduction. Some of them just don't want to be educated. They don't want to learn.

A few essential failings of the "it costs 54 cents to run a car" are that people don't consider:


insurance/license is a sunk cost. You are already paying this regardless because it's a primary personal vehicle, and uber does not increase this cost
one component of depreciation is miles. The other is age (actually a third is condition but let's forget that for now). Even a vehicle not driven one mile is going to lose value each year, and again this is another sunk cost because it's a personal vehicle. Uber does not increase this cost. Some people are simply incapable of breaking out the components to depreciation


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> You're absolutely correct. For some people it's more than $.535. For most it's less, for some it's way less. I've tried, and failed to explain this in depth in this thread, for example:
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/long-trip-return-fee.196837/
> 
> ...


Another way to look at it is the IRS allowance for medical/moving expense. The IRS states the typical personal car, operating under normal conditions, costs $0.17 per mile to drive, after the sunk costs are eliminated. They didn't come up with this number from thin air, it uses real data.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> A few essential failings of the "it costs 54 cents to run a car" are that people don't consider:
> 
> 
> insurance/license is a sunk cost. You are already paying this regardless because it's a primary personal vehicle, and uber does not increase this cost
> one component of depreciation is miles. The other is age (actually a third is condition but let's forget that for now). Even a vehicle not driven one mile is going to lose value each year, and again this is another sunk cost because it's a personal vehicle. Uber does not increase this cost. Some people are simply incapable of breaking out the components to depreciation


While I agree it won't cost 54 cents a mile to drive a cheap car,

I disagree on both points you raise about the costs not being any different than owning a personal car.

#1 - I have to pay more for "rideshare insurance". Of course the cost per mile goes down with increasing number of miles because I pay the same amount for insurance no matter how many miles I do (actually I don't because the insurance companies give discounts for driving limited miles), but the insurance cost is higher than it would otherwise be.
#2 - While there is age related depreciation, an Uber car may wear out in about 3 years of hard use if you drive 100,000 miles a year, meaning you need to buy another car. That is a higher cost than just holding a personal vehicle which might last 21 years if you only drive 14,285 miles a year. If you depreciate the car 100% in 3 years versus 21 years then you have to sink that cost 7 times as often. You are right that depreciation per mile will be less if you fully depreciate the car, since depreciation is faster when the car is new than when it is old. But the cost of the vehicle itself isn't so much of a sunk cost when the more you drive the more often you have to buy a car. IRS depreciation values are exaggerated because it assumes most people are using new cars and replacing them long before they wear out.

As for the driver license, registration, tax, etc., some folks in urban areas if they didn't drive for Uber might not even own a car at all. If I lived in the city center and had a job, and didn't uber, perhaps I'd just own a bike. One reason a lot of riders use Uber is because they don't own a car of their own. Part of what they pay the driver to give them a ride goes to the fact that the driver has to be licensed. If the taxes to operate a vehicle were much higher, then the fare would probably be higher too.

While I use my car as a "personal" vehicle, 95% of the miles I put on it are related to rideshare. I rarely travel anywhere for a personal reason. My vehicle is not a "primary" personal vehicle. It is a "primary" business vehicle. It's more taxi adapted to occasional errands than errand car adapted to occasional taxi.

I reckon some folks actually have a car dedicated to rideshare and another car for personal uses.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> #1 - I have to pay more for "rideshare insurance". Of course the cost per mile goes down with increasing number of miles because I pay the same amount for insurance no matter how many miles I do (actually I don't because the insurance companies give discounts for driving limited miles), but the insurance cost is higher than it would otherwise be.


Yeah, it is a tiny bit 



> #2 - While there is age related depreciation, an Uber car may wear out in about 3 years of hard use if you drive 100,000 miles a year, meaning you need to buy another car. That is a higher cost than just holding a personal vehicle which might last 21 years if you only drive 14,285 miles a year. If you depreciate the car 100% in 3 years versus 21 years then you have to sink that cost 7 times as often. You are right that depreciation per mile will be less if you fully depreciate the car, since depreciation is faster when the car is new than when it is old. But the cost of the vehicle itself isn't so much of a sunk cost when the more you drive the more often you have to buy a car. IRS depreciation values are exaggerated because it assumes most people are using new cars and replacing them long before they wear out.


I guess what I'm saying is if you buy a brand new car and leave it in a garage and never put a mile on it, each year it still loses substantial value. So that age component of depreciation is guaranteed and covered by the fact you bought the car for personal use anyway. There's just no need to consider it as part of the uber. The only depreciation uber does (if on a personal car), is the extra miles; e.g. 3 year car with 60k of personal vs 3 year with 100k if you also ubered. Part of the depreciation is age, and you can attach that entirely to the personal use. Then the rest is miles which you can start attaching to uber as well as personal.



> As for the driver license, registration, tax, etc., some folks in urban areas if they didn't drive for Uber might not even own a car at all. If I lived in the city center and had a job, and didn't uber, perhaps I'd just own a bike. One reason a lot of riders use Uber is because they don't own a car of their own. Part of what they pay the driver to give them a ride goes to the fact that the driver has to be licensed. If the taxes to operate a vehicle were much higher, then the fare would probably be higher too.


True.



> While I use my car as a "personal" vehicle, 95% of the miles I put on it are related to rideshare. I rarely travel anywhere for a personal reason. My vehicle is not a "primary" personal vehicle. It is a "primary" business vehicle. It's more taxi adapted to occasional errands than errand car adapted to occasional taxi.
> 
> I reckon some folks actually have a car dedicated to rideshare and another car for personal uses.


Some do. If that were me it would be an old prius or some other small car. I can get a 2011 prius for $7k with 80k on it. No way in God's earth that comes anywhere close to $54k to dump another 100k on it over a four year period. It will be south of $20k including all costs, and that includes a few grand in repairs as well.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> While I use my car as a "personal" vehicle, 95% of the miles I put on it are related to rideshare. I


At first glance, it would seem like 95% of all costs associated with the car should be associated to rideshare. And if you itemize instead of using the standard mileage, the IRS would agree.

But don't confuse IRS rules with reality. What would be the cost to not drive rideshare? What would be the cost to drive rideshare? The difference is the added cost to drive rideshare. The math is not good for someone who bought a new car strictly for rideshare. The math is better for someone who bought a mostly depreciated, economy car for personal use and uses it for rideshare.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> There is what I've seen somebody else here call a "cult" of IRS mileage people. By this the person means some people insist, despite rational analysis and mathematics, that cars cost $.54 mile to run because that's the IRS deduction. Some of them just don't want to be educated. They don't want to learn


Hi, proud cult of the $.50 per mile member here. Sorry to hear your OCD about true costs is flaring again.

What is it with you people? Is Travis on your butt to squelch the rational analysis bunch. Does it hurt your self-esteem that people think you are a fool for driving for nothing? Is it really better to argue that you drive for a mere pittance? Or maybe you are in Mumbai and get paid good rupees to peddle your drivel? Malaysia and baht, maybe?

Experts, (not you!), say the cost to drive a car, any car, is between $.40 and $.60 PER MILE to drive a car. (depending on the car) And yet you persist in bellowing "It's not True! It's not True!"

Why?

If we are wrong then we are convincing more people to quit rideshare leaving more rides and more money for you? That would be bad?

If we are wrong and Uber finds itself forced to raise rates then that is more money for you. That would be bad?

If we are RIGHT and you drive the industry standard 13 paid miles in an hour and driving 26 miles to get it, then in Tampa bay, by your estimate, you make $9.36 (13 X $.72/mile) in fares less (26 X $.25/mile) $6.50 for $2.86 PER HOUR. Your cost estimate not mine! I would say you lost $3.64 ($9.36 - (26 x .$.50) $13.00 = -$3.64) and gave away an hour of your valuable life.

Profit of $2.86 per hour or loss of $3.64 per hour. Either way you can't sustain your "Business." Perhaps that is why 96 out 100 drivers don't last one year with Uber?


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

UberProphet? said:


> Hi, proud cult of the $.50 per mile member here. Sorry to hear your OCD about true costs is flaring again.
> 
> What is it with you people? Is Travis on your butt to squelch the rational analysis bunch. Does it hurt your self-esteem that people think you are a fool for driving for nothing? Is it really better to argue that you drive for a mere pittance? Or maybe you are in Mumbai and get paid good rupees to peddle your drivel? Malaysia and baht, maybe?
> 
> ...


I am hesitant to respond to some posts but I can't let someone read this drivel and take it as fact. You first two paragraphs are nothing but personal attacks so I will refrain from commenting on those.

If you're only seeing rates of $0.40 to $0.60 per mile to drive a car, you need to expand your search. For instance, AAA says my 4wd Blazer costs $0.757 per mile to run. A Bugatti Veyron is $18.00 per mile per Jalopnik. The IRS says it costs $0.17 per mile for variable costs.

I don't believe in spreading incorrect information, even if means fewer drivers on the road.

Your income calculations seem to be missing the base fare and time fare.

One should not use the standard mileage allowance to determine their cost to drive unless you bought a new, $32,000 car to drive exclusively for rideshare. That car will depreciate at the rate of $0.427 per mile for the 15,000 you drive it in the first year. For the math challenged, that's $6,400 in depreciation in one year. A 10 year old Corolla with 120k is worth $2256. With 135k, its worth $2104. Driving the Corolla 1 mile results in a depreciation of $0.010. That's a penny a mile. See the difference?

depreciation per mile for the first year (15k miles):
new $64k car = $0.85
new $32k car = $0.43 (this is the average new car)
new $16k car = $0.22
used $2k car = $0.01


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

bsliv said:


> I don't believe in spreading incorrect information, even if means fewer drivers on the road.


Good morning, how is the smog in Mumbai today?

But you do mean to spread false information to get MORE drivers on the road, which is what Travis pays you for.

And by the way, does Travis know you are advocating rideshare cars should be $2,000 clunkers?

And you have jumped the shark on your claim of 1 cent per mile to drive a car.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

UberProphet? said:


> Good morning, how is the smog in Mumbai today?
> 
> But you do mean to spread false information to get MORE drivers on the road, which is what Travis pays you for.
> 
> ...


I see you're still having comprehension issues. And now you appear disillusional. I list my location on my profile, why don't you? I can prove where I am, can you? Who is this Travis guy?

One penny per mile for depreciation, not cost to drive or cost to own. DEPRECIATION! Didn't I write that in my post you quoted? Looking at it again, I did. Illiterate too?

Head meet wall. Repeat.

You tell me how a $2000 car can depreciate $6000 in one year.
You tell me how the IRS calculates $0.17 per mile to drive.
You tell me how a car can cost $18.00 per mile to drive.
You tell me how one depreciation rate works for every car out there, not just new cars.

Try responding to the content of this post instead of casting unfounded assumptions.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

If you're just going to do crazy made-up math to amuse yourself, why not erase the whiteboard and start with a completely new set of assumptions?

Instead of your 5 year old Prius, what about a brand new Lexus SUV? Are you saying the IRS should publish rates for every type/age/mileage of car out there? 

And what's with your infatuation with the moving/medical deduction rates? Whoop de doo. The mileage rate for charity work is $0.14 -- how does that jive with your theories? IRS also says you can't deduct moving mileage for less than 50 miles (or whatever it is) -- no, Captain Obvious, that doesn't mean no one has out-of-pocket expenses if they move from one house to another across town. That's just tax policy, which clearly has very little to do with reality.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

jester121 said:


> If you're just going to do crazy made-up math to amuse yourself, why not erase the whiteboard and start with a completely new set of assumptions?
> 
> Instead of your 5 year old Prius, what about a brand new Lexus SUV? Are you saying the IRS should publish rates for every type/age/mileage of car out there?
> 
> And what's with your infatuation with the moving/medical deduction rates? Whoop de doo. The mileage rate for charity work is $0.14 -- how does that jive with your theories? IRS also says you can't deduct moving mileage for less than 50 miles (or whatever it is) -- no, Captain Obvious, that doesn't mean no one has out-of-pocket expenses if they move from one house to another across town. That's just tax policy, which clearly has very little to do with reality.


For their own good, the IRS should use different rates for different cars. I don't want them to. $0.535 is a good deduction for me. Its not so good for a brand new Lexus owner. If the Lexus costs $62k, they are going to pay $0.85 per mile in depreciation alone. Add gas, insurance, taxes, maintenance, etc., it is probably over a $1.20 mile to drive. It would be silly to use $0.535 as the cost to drive the Lexus. Its just as silly to use $0.535 as the cost to drive a 10 year old Corolla. Its perfectly fine to use $0.535 as a cost to drive for a new, $32k car.

My infatuation is few seem to realize that is the cost to drive a personal car, once all the fixed costs are eliminated is $0.17, per the IRS.

I didn't mention the charity allowance because that is not a calculated rate. That is a rate set by law. The moving allowance is calculated by the same people who calculate the business allowance. Clear, Lt. Inthedark?


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

bsliv said:


> My infatuation is no one seems to realize that is the cost to drive a personal car, once all the fixed costs are eliminated


I once tried to rent an apartment from a landlord. I patiently explained that he should rent it to me with the fixed costs eliminated.

I think he is still laughing at me!


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

*bsliv*, I put uberprophet on ignore. It makes this sub forum far more pleasant. He's proven in several posts on costs to have dubious critical thinking skills, and succumbs readily and heartily to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It isn't your fault. He can't be taught. I've tried.


> My infatuation is no one seems to realize that is the cost to drive a personal car, once all the fixed costs are eliminated.


Lots of us do. A moderator in another thread had to correct uberprophet as well. But he'll keep repeating the same rubbish as if he's paid to. Even the AAA cost per mile undermines his claims (yeah the one he thinks actually backs them up ). It is frustrating because he can't even understand a 3X3 matrix of numbers and what they mean. I would just give up if I were you.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

[


ShinyAndChrome said:


> *bsliv*, I put uberprophet on ignore. It makes this sub forum far more pleasant. He's proven in several posts on costs to have dubious critical thinking skills, and succumbs readily and heartily to the Dunning-Kruger effect. It isn't your fault. He can't be taught. I've tried.
> Lots of us do. A moderator in another thread had to correct uberprophet as well. But he'll keep repeating the same rubbish as if he's paid to. Even the AAA cost per mile undermines his claims (yeah the one he thinks actually backs them up ). It is frustrating because he can't even understand a 3X3 matrix of numbers and what they mean. I would just give up if I were you.


Understood. 
I changed "no one" to "few" in my prior post as I reread it. Thanks, tho. 
I don't want to see a lie told often enough that it becomes truth. I do enjoy crunching numbers.
And thanks for the voice of reason.

I have too much time on my hands. I was kinda hoping someone would mention the rising costs of repairs to partially offset the declining cost of depreciation.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

bsliv said:


> I have too much time on my hands. .


Me, too. Combined with a penchant for google and a full time profession that pays me for analysis. That could be why to me it seems so simple but some others can't seem to figure out how to look at things properly in a logical order, nor even understand it when others lay it out for them.

Uber driving is basically like the opposite of a progressive tax system. In the latter the more money you make the more punishing taxes are on each dollar, yet with driving the opposite effect happens.

If you paid 10% tax on $0-100k income and 50% on $100k+ and you make $110k for the year, you've paid $15,000. Your average tax rate was 15%. What did that last $10k cost you in taxes? An obvious answer to us, but if we apply the logical fallacy being bandied about above a certain somebody would say it cost you $1,500, just like each of the previous $10k income chunks.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

bsliv said:


> I was kinda hoping someone would mention the rising costs of repairs to partially offset the declining cost of depreciation.


Repeat after me "As depreciation goes down, maintenance goes up."

It has been said by me and others many, many times.


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## GasHealthTimeCosts (Jul 24, 2017)

You guys can go back and forth all day long. The question is, if you file with the IRS standard mile deduction, will there be any issues or not?


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

GasHealthTimeCosts said:


> The question is, if you file with the IRS standard mile deduction, will there be any issues or not?


The IRS will accept a deduction at their yearly rate for each and every mile used to do business. That includes deadhead miles .


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> google and a full time profession that pays me for analysis.


I've been a licensed appraiser for > 20 yrs. I wrote an automated valuation program based on multiple regression analyses using a dozen features. It might be the grasp of numbers.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

GasHealthTimeCosts said:


> You guys can go back and forth all day long. The question is, if you file with the IRS standard mile deduction, will there be any issues or not?


That is the one to go by! Every accountant will say that with rare exception the standard deduction is worth far more than the actual cost to operate, so that is the way to do it.


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## GasHealthTimeCosts (Jul 24, 2017)

Ya so UberProphet let these people ramble for no reason. They think the average uber driver knows analytical mathematics or even posts on a forum.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

What happens if you can't show much profit at 16c a mile in Costs?

48c a mile (orlando per mile rate if you buy the optional insurance)
8c a minute

-16c per paid mile
-16c per unpaid mile


Orlandos unpaid/paid mileage rate is about 3 miles driven to 1 mile paid...
48c
-16c
-32c Unpaid miles
+8c per minute...


Putting your max earnings at 8c per minute you have a customer, or $4.20 per hour...

1-2 rides at 10-15 minutes each puts your earnings closer to the 80c- $1.20 range per hour...



How do you justify this situation?


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

QUOTE="Mears Troll Number 4, post: 2955324, member: 33148"]What happens if you can't show much profit at 16c a mile in Costs?

48c a mile (orlando per mile rate if you buy the optional insurance)
8c a minute

-16c per paid mile
-16c per unpaid mile

Orlandos unpaid/paid mileage rate is about 3 miles driven to 1 mile paid...
48c
-16c
-32c Unpaid miles
+8c per minute...

Putting your max earnings at 8c per minute you have a customer, or $4.20 per hour...

1-2 rides at 10-15 minutes each puts your earnings closer to the 80c- $1.20 range per hour...

How do you justify this situation?[/QUOTE]

It can be justified economically by the fact there is someone willing to pay a certain rate to do a job and there is someone willing to accept that rate to do the job. If someone didn't accept the rate, the offerer would be forced to increase the rate until someone would accept the rate.

3 miles driven for 1 mile paid is not very good. Las Vegas is close to 1 mile dead to 1 mile paid.

I hope you can drive 25 mph down there (1 ride per hour). That would be one 15 minute, 6.25 mile ride per hour. That would be $3.00 for mileage per hour and $1.20 for time per hour and $0.75 base fare for a gross total of $4.95 per hour. Cost would be $4.00 for a net of $0.95 per hour. Do people really drive for that rate?

While your costs are very low, the dead miles are extremely high. Using the same rates but with a 1 : 1 dead : paid miles/time would net $5.90/hr (2 rides per hour). Still very bad but much better than less than a buck.

In either scenario, you'd be able to deduct $13.375 per hour driven off your gross income for tax purposes. If you have another job, that deduction can add up to a tax decrease. A tax decrease is effectively the same as a pay increase but not a 1 : 1 ratio.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

GasHealthTimeCosts said:


> Ya so UberProphet let these people ramble for no reason. They think the average uber driver knows analytical mathematics or even posts on a forum.


It really isn't that hard to understand.


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## Hogg (Feb 7, 2016)

As your depreciation cost goes down your maintenance expenses are likely to go up.

When I was a mechanic we had shop software that calculated customer's maintenance expense per mile. The average was $0.10 per mile, and we didn't do tires there either so they had additional expense elsewhere.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

bsliv said:


> QUOTE="Mears Troll Number 4, post: 2955324, member: 33148"]What happens if you can't show much profit at 16c a mile in Costs?
> 
> 48c a mile (orlando per mile rate if you buy the optional insurance)
> 8c a minute
> ...


Yup... that's basically way the math works out... pretty abysmal numbers...

Usually in 20-25 miles per hour driven, to $7-10 per hour in revenue, with about $10-$13 per hour in tax deductions meaning a taxable loss 100% of the time.

With surges/boosts/incentives it's works out to about $7-10 per hour gross which is like 1-2 trips in that range you listed.

You just can't fix the abysmal paid/unpaid ratio... It can't be done..

Here's why
1. Going 3 miles 10 minutes to pick up someone who is only going 1.5 miles, then having to go another mile down the road so you can park somewhere that isn't in front of someones house.
2. The airport is like 15-20 miles from the tourist area, where most of the fares from the airport go, and where most of the early morning fares from the tourist area go... anything involving the airport will turn into a 3o+ miles and pay out less than $15 on uber.
3. Disney itself is a massive creator of dead empty miles. Unless you have been to WDW you don't have a clue how bad it is for empty miles... 5 minutes to the next hotel over is 5 miles empty to get to the next hotel over...
4. 15 minutes can easily put you way out in the sticks... at the wrong time of the day your driving 15 minutes back to somewhere you can stand a chance at getting a ping.

The taxis (what i'm driving) get $2.40 per mile 45c per minute under 20MPH and i'm at about $1.00 -$1.25 per mile driven. One 15 minute 6.25 mile drive in a taxi is like $20-25 revenue, I'm averaging 1.5 to 2 trips per hour usually in the $10-30 range per fare. In 11 hours my revenue in a taxi is usually in the $200-$300ish range, with $85-95 in costs leaving me $100-200 in taxable profit, which for uber isn't attainable.










This isn't Orlando,
This isn't Downtown Orlando

This is an area the size of San francisco,

This is just Disney property...


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> You're absolutely correct. For some people it's more than $.535. For most it's less, for some it's way less. I've tried, and failed to explain this in depth in this thread, for example:
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/long-trip-return-fee.196837/
> 
> ...


Some people dismiss real costs by claiming we would spend that anyway. The claim about prices for a used Prius don't appear any where near accurate in my area


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

Rat said:


> Some people dismiss real costs by claiming we would spend that anyway. The claim about prices for a used Prius don't appear any where near accurate in my area


i see three groups of people:
1) the $.54 cult crowd who think a 2011 civic used primarily as a personal vehicle still costs $.54/mile to drive *added uber miles*

2) the "it only costs me gas" crowd

3) the people who have looked at their *individual case* in a critical manner and can intelligently speak to their costs from uber

At lot of people are in groups 1,2 and they are equally ignorant about what their uber miles truly cost them.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Hogg said:


> As your depreciation cost goes down your maintenance expenses are likely to go up.
> 
> When I was a mechanic we had shop software that calculated customer's maintenance expense per mile. The average was $0.10 per mile, and we didn't do tires there either so they had additional expense elsewhere.


Maintenance costs should remain fairly flat and those costs can be derived from the car's maintenance schedule. Repair cost should go up with age/miles. Software to track past repairs would be easy. Software to predict the cost of repairs during the coming year or 5 year period would be much more interesting. The software could use the make, model, use tables to determine the average failure rate of a parts, consider the maintenance and repairs already made, then provide a range of cost of individual repairs. Then sum the repair costs and divide by the expected miles to develop the expected repair costs per mile.

A single repair can vary widely in its cost. Some will take the car to the dealership. Some will take the car to a high end shop. Some will search for the cheapest shop. Some will do the repair themselves. A friend had a $4000 ****** installed in his 98 Blazer. I had mine rebuilt by a pro and he reinstalled it for $1200 in my 99 Blazer. Repairpal.com says a fuel pump installed in the Blazer would be between $740 and $1004. It cost me $250 and a few beers. I could have been not so smart and spent $5004 for the 2 repairs instead of $1450.

So, I agree repairs will go up while depreciation goes down. But the cost of the repairs, even for an old car, should not reach the cost of depreciation on an average car. My opinion is that a low wage earner should not be paying someone > $50 hr to fix problems.

Rideshare drivers are business owners. They must allocate their resources appropriately to maximize their profit. Our biggest resource is our cars. Our biggest expense is our cars. The more we know about our cars the higher the profit potential.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

bsliv said:


> Maintenance costs should remain fairly flat and those costs can be derived from the car's maintenance schedule. Repair cost should go up with age/miles. Software to track past repairs would be easy. Software to predict the cost of repairs during the coming year or 5 year period would be much more interesting. The software could use the make, model, use tables to determine the average failure rate of a parts, consider the maintenance and repairs already made, then provide a range of cost of individual repairs. Then sum the repair costs and divide by the expected miles to develop the expected repair costs per mile.
> 
> A single repair can vary widely in its cost. Some will take the car to the dealership. Some will take the car to a high end shop. Some will search for the cheapest shop. Some will do the repair themselves. A friend had a $4000 ****** installed in his 98 Blazer. I had mine rebuilt by a pro and he reinstalled it for $1200 in my 99 Blazer. Repairpal.com says a fuel pump installed in the Blazer would be between $740 and $1004. It cost me $250 and a few beers. I could have been not so smart and spent $5004 for the 2 repairs instead of $1450.
> 
> ...


When i owned my own taxi I could afford to pay Toyota to fix/service my Sienna with very little worry out of my business account. For every 100 miles i drove i deposited $55 or 56 in to the account to cover expenses, gasoline, service ect.

By the end of that car's life I had over $35,000 in it... if it wasn't for this new fangled uber that was threatening to destroy the taxi industry, i would have bought a new Sienna and started over..


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> When i owned my own taxi I could afford to pay Toyota to fix/service my Sienna with very little worry out of my business account. For every 100 miles i drove i deposited $55 or 56 in to the account to cover expenses, gasoline, service ect.
> 
> By the end of that car's life I had over $35,000 in it... if it wasn't for this new fangled uber that was threatening to destroy the taxi industry, i would have bought a new Sienna and started over..


When one makes $50/hr, one can afford to pay others. When one makes $10/hr, not so much.

Your costs for a new Sienna (an ~average priced car) matches what the IRS says a new, average priced car should cost. Makes sense. Roughly, how much did the Sienna cost new? Roughly how many years and miles to bring it up to $35k? What was its end of life value? If you don't want to say, I understand, its business.

I can't see how rideshare will last long at the current pricing. Deferred maintenance has a way of catching up. It may take a few years but repair costs will raise its ugly head. A lot depends on the overall economy. If alternative income is not available, people will trade a car's equity for a small gain.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

bsliv said:


> When one makes $50/hr, one can afford to pay others. When one makes $10/hr, not so much.
> 
> Your costs for a new Sienna (an ~average priced car) matches what the IRS says a new, average priced car should cost. Makes sense. Roughly, how much did the Sienna cost new? Roughly how many years and miles to bring it up to $35k? What was its end of life value? If you don't want to say, I understand, its business.


Well it's end of life value rymed with Hero... (after factoring in everything that needed fixed on a car with 230,000 miles that was used as a taxi..
That van was a hero of a car that ran for over 230,000 miles.) All in all I had it on the road for 3 1/2 years.... yup that's all it took. Made about $225,000 in revenue over 3 1/2 years. About 1,200 miles to $1,200 a week in revenue.

When i bought it I got a heck of a deal because I got it on a returning veteran sale and paid for it with a cashier's check. That alone knocked a couple grand because i kept hinting about looking at older models used...

It was $35,000 LEFT OVER of the $100,000 i put into my business account for expenses. (Gas, repairs, maintenance, redoing the interior... the list goes on)


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