# PAX 'gaming' the pick-up location to get an Uber ride



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Uberdawg said:


> I had a ping yesterday from 23 minutes (that was ETA time so we know what that means) in a non surge area and the guy was 3. ROFLMFAO. That shouldn't even count as a non accept. Oh yes, let me rush right out of the surge zone, waste 30 minutes getting there for a $10 ride and 30 minutes back to the surge. Uber and their BS acceptance rate can bite me. That dude is probably still waiting for someone to answer his ping.


Last night at midnight I get a ping from a 4.6 PAX 10 mi away. It was in the direction of where I live (far eastern suburbs) and I figured there was at least a 50/50 chance the ride would be to someplace in the area. And it was UberSELECT, ($4/base + 2.25/mi + $0.35/min) so short or long, the ride is going to be profitable. 2 minutes into the drive to the pick-up, PAX calls and asks if it's ok to change the pick-up location - and offers to pay me for the add'l driving - I tell him 'no problem' and he txts me the new location - another 10 miles further out... two more towns away, in another county: beyond the Uber coverage area.

*Obviously, he couldn't get a car on the app without putting in the 'fake' pick-up first and then changing it after it was accepted.* But at least he did it as SELECT, and offered to compensate for the long pick-up drive... so, even though he's trying to BS me, it's out towards my home anyway and I continue to the new pick-up location.

(For anyone reading this familiar with Cleveland, I was in Pepper Pike, Cuyahoga County, the pinged location was Chagrin Falls, Geauga County, and the real pick-up was in Mantua, Portage county).

I get there (30 min drive) and it turns out the guy on the phone had used this girl's phone/Uber acc't to get her very drunk butt back to her home. He opens the door, pushes her out and disappears back inside, while I help her waddle into the car. I tap BEGIN RIDE and the destination is back in Cleveland - 30 miles. If this had been UberX I'd have cancelled... but I do the math in my head and drive her home while she sleeps in the back seat, and all the while I'm thinking about how to get compensated for the additional time and pick-up drive miles.

Arriving at her destination (for those who know the area: Uptown/Univ Circle), I wake her up, help her out of the car and to her door and she's gone without so much as a 'thanks' (and certainly no tip). At this point the 'trip' is still active, so to recoup the additional pick-up miles, I calculate how many miles I need to keep the ride active to generate the $ for the additional miles. I change the destination to a location 6.5 miles in the direction of my home (24 miles away)... and when I reach that point I end the trip. The whole ordeal took about an hour and half (from ping to getting back to my original location).

I've never 'padded' miles before, but it was the only way I could think of to get paid per the agreement made with the guy who called me. It added about $20 to the fare. <sigh> Hoping it doesn't become an after-the-fact issue with the pax or Uber. So far so good - it's been 13 hours since the trip and I still have a 5* rating on 19 trips for the day!

For those interested in the actual pinged location, fake pick-up location, actual pick-up location and destination location, (and Uber coverage area),
here's map:


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

Another option would be to get permission to begin the trip before you leave your area of operation, by text.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Yeah, I thought about that, too... but it would have caused a problem if I got to the location and then decided to decline the ride (for any of a number reasons). Still, that may have been a better option because if I did cancel, I could then have had a CSR change the fare after-the-fact to 'no charge'.


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

I would have done it the same way as you..until the guy didn't come through with the cash, as promised. Then i would have got pissed and canceled and and went home with no money for my trouble. Your way...at least you made some dough for your trouble.


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2015)

If you accepted an order placed for a specific pickup location, why shouldn't you begin the trip after arriving at that location, with authorization via text?

Then drive to the moon and back if that's what he wants. He just needs to update the new pickup location. uber will see this.

Worst case drive to the original pickup location and hit him with a no-show, or just forget the whole thing and go home no charge.

The problem seems to be with the out of area situation, the cash, the fact that the guy is probably a scammer' in the first place.

Tricky one to handle. Good story.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Uber should come up with some algorithm that allows the driver the option to "cancel" without affecting his/her acceptance % (when the pick up is a certain amount of miles and minutes away).


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

You got lucky it worked out as well as it did. Personally, I have a rule that if a person can't walk on their own, they are too drunk to ride. I would decline any kind of major address change particularly outside a service area.


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## AltaClip (Feb 12, 2015)

I might have done it the same but more likely I'd hit arrive and start trip at approx the original pickup location. I'd argue later on that based on the call to compensate, etc. that you had an agreement to start the trip and continue to pickup stop #2. If it bombed later on you'd still have the option to contact CSR, etc. to reverse.

I live in the NW corner of Edmonton and am often one of the only ones covering about 35% of St. Albert another small city 10 mins north. I often get pax pings to the very edge of where my 8-10 mins est pickup covers then they immed call or text "a problem with the pickup" to up get me to go a few more miles into the town.

I don't usually mind as >80% of St Albert trips are longer ones.


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## UBERxGc (Feb 8, 2015)

DenverDiane said:


> You stole from the passenger. You accepted the ride and you (eventually) knew where the ride was located. You took advantage of an intoxicated woman to pad your miles. It's a scummy thing to do. You should feel bad about it instead of humble bragging about it on an internet forum but obviously you do not have the internal sense of right and wrong needed for such feelings.


Shut up.


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## thehappytypist (Oct 9, 2014)

Hopefully she won't have any problems with the amount of the fare. If she writes in, I guarantee it'll get adjusted as a mis-timed trip.


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## uberThere (Feb 22, 2015)

DenverDiane said:


> You stole from the passenger. You accepted the ride and you (eventually) knew where the ride was located. You took advantage of an intoxicated woman to pad your miles. It's a scummy thing to do. You should feel bad about it instead of humble bragging about it on an internet forum but obviously you do not have the internal sense of right and wrong needed for such feelings.


How do you figure this? The "original" pax was 10 miles further out, which means the ride was 20 miles longer than stated, and he agreed to pay the distance. If someone was taken advantage of, then it was the OP.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

An interesting post. This illustrates so well how passengers deliberately abuse the system. A false PICK location to lure you into the job. That's BS. Then, since he knows you have no idea where the destination is beforehand, he is able to get what he wants without having to pay the full costs you are incurring to run it.

If you had all the correct information about the job before accepting, would you have answered the ping? Probably not.

So in the end you're stuck with a gamey work-around to try to recoup your time and expenses. And now you're worried about breaking the rules.

The value of that trip was far more than the customer paid. A legitimate limo service would have charged a two hour minimum ($150-175.00). 

What was the UBER bill?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

The extra compensation should have been taken care of before the passenger even landed in the back seat. The padding of the miles in this case is a bit tacky considering if the guy who made the promise for compensation isn't riding shotgun and the pax is not conscious..... there goes your chance for a tip. Personally, if that woman were to have a problem, the padding of the miles may not be the biggest concern. She could have pointed out she wasn't aware of what the boyfriend was doing with her phone, she wasn't even in UBER range she had gave no consent etc. Too many red flags to count, but at the very least, if I were going to run that woman, I would have had the man ride along and make it a round trip. That would have been at the bare minimum...... but then there is the issue of it having been booked through the women's phone. The whole thing was a mess really.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Huberis said:


> The extra compensation should have been taken care of before the passenger even landed in the back seat. The padding of the miles in this case is a bit tacky considering if the guy who made the promise for compensation isn't riding shotgun and the pax is not conscious..... there goes your chance for a tip. Personally, if that woman were to have a problem, the padding of the miles may not be the biggest concern. She could have pointed out she wasn't aware of what the boyfriend was doing with her phone, she wasn't even in UBER range she had gave no consent etc. Too many red flags to count, but at the very least, if I were going to run that woman, I would have had the man ride along and make it a round trip. That would have been at the bare minimum...... but then there is the issue of it having been booked through the women's phone. The whole thing was a mess really.


Not sure what I would have done. Perhaps this. Go to the original PICK location. Call customer. Request/require that the customer text complete instructions in order to have documented proof of the whole matter. Then proceed to the actual PICK location. Press arrive. Speak to the customer to confirm everything. Receive from customer $100 cash. Then cancel the job (do not bill customer). Then ask for another $100 cash and take the drunk woman home. If the second $100 is not forthcoming, then just leave and go home.
Once home and logged out, then email UBER to report a dangerous and threatening customer forced me to cancel the job. Sorry.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Too complicated, we are drivers not rocket surgeons. Didn't the OP mention word came of being outside UBER's sphere of influence only a couple minutes in to the drive? Canceling the job and then run it under the radar so to speak with a semi conscious woman in your back seat while leaving behind an irate and perhaps underlaid dude........ Hell of a good chance you get out there and the guy doesn't have ten bucks on him let alone two hundred. Good luck if she gets sick en route in the middle of nowhere or the address she is going to is inaccurate. You lost me after "Not sure what I would have done." I never know what I'm going to do, I'm mostly content knowing what I wouldn't do.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Huberis said:


> Too complicated, we are drivers not rocket surgeons. Didn't the OP mention word came of being outside UBER's sphere of influence only a couple minutes in to the drive? Canceling the job and then run it under the radar so to speak with a semi conscious woman in your back seat while leaving behind an irate and perhaps underlaid dude........ Hell of a good chance you get out there and the guy doesn't have ten bucks on him let alone two hundred. Good luck if she gets sick en route in the middle of nowhere or the address she is going to is inaccurate. You lost me after "Not sure what I would have done." I never know what I'm going to do, I'm mostly content knowing what I wouldn't do.


True. Cancellation is usually the best policy with the UBER jackasses. Run away.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

mike888 said:


> If you accepted an order placed for a specific pickup location, why shouldn't you begin the trip after arriving at that location, with authorization via text?


That's what scenicruiser suggested - and I could have. I just chose to add the miles to the back-end.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Huberis said:


> You got lucky it worked out as well as it did. Personally, I have a rule that if a person can't walk on their own, they are too drunk to ride. I would decline any kind of major address change particularly outside a service area.


It was a $106 total fare. I can put up with getting a young lady home safely, thank you. She was walking ok, with assistance. And at the end of the trip she was able to walk (well, wobble anyway) to her door.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

DenverDiane said:


> You stole from the passenger. You accepted the ride and you (eventually) knew where the ride was located. You took advantage of an intoxicated woman to pad your miles. It's a scummy thing to do. You should feel bad about it instead of humble bragging about it on an internet forum but obviously you do not have the internal sense of right and wrong needed for such feelings.


You're an idiot and I did no such thing. I accepted the fare and the terms negotiated between myself and the pax. Had it not been acceptable to her, or if she even had a change of heart in the morning, she could EASILY ask Uber to adjust the fare. She didn't. She got home safely, I got paid for my time and driving, and we're both happy.

If you're ever in the same situation as that PAX you should be so lucky to get a driver like me. Most people, in that location, at that time of night, faced with that pick-up, would have cancelled and just gone home (15 minutes away), leaving the girl standing drunk in the driveway.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

thehappytypist said:


> Hopefully she won't have any problems with the amount of the fare. If she writes in, I guarantee it'll get adjusted as a mis-timed trip.


The 'additional' fare was only around $15-$17. I wouldn't complain too much if it were adjusted - but I would change her PAX rating for that ride to 1*.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

stuber said:


> If you had all the correct information about the job before accepting, would you have answered the ping? Probably not.


I was in a generous mood - if the guy had been straight with me with all of the info, I'd probably have helped them out. Another night I might not have.



> So in the end you're stuck with a gamey work-around to try to recoup your time and expenses. And now you're worried about breaking the rules.


Yeah - that's what I didn't like... having to figure out what was fair and reasonable - and then figuring out how to effect it in the easiest, most comprehensible way.



> The value of that trip was far more than the customer paid.


Hell yes.



> What was the UBER bill?


Total Gross: $106.
My net: $79.06
~60 miles of driving for the trip x $0.575/mi = $34.50 in expenses.
Net Profit: $44.56 (for about 1 1/2 hours)


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Huberis said:


> The extra compensation should have been taken care of before the passenger even landed in the back seat.


I agree. But I didn't get that opportunity - and maybe you like to start banging on drunk's doors at midnight in the boondocks, but I don't need that kind of drama, thank you.



> The padding of the miles in this case is a bit tacky considering if the guy who made the promise for compensation isn't riding shotgun and the pax is not conscious..... there goes your chance for a tip.


I never said she was unconscious. I made sure she knew her destination address and that she wanted to go there... and then I told to her sit back, relax and go to sleep. When we arrived, I woke her up and asked her to point out her building and tell me where she wanted to be let out - and she did. But I agree - it was a weird situation - and unusual. That's why I posted the story. I'm sure others would handle it differently and maybe this post will get others to think about how they would handle it for when it happens to them. I chose to do what I felt was best for me, at that time. The only other option I felt I had at the time was to 'eat' the additional expense - and I'm tired of doing that. I'm trying to minimize my expenses - not subsidize gaming riders or Uber's profits.



> Personally, if that woman were to have a problem, the padding of the miles may not be the biggest concern. She could have pointed out she wasn't aware of what the boyfriend was doing with her phone, she wasn't even in UBER range she had gave no consent etc.


No - just like in any other situation, being drunk is not an excuse for your bad behavior or errors in judgment.



> ... I would have had the man ride along and make it a round trip. That would have been at the bare minimum......


whoa - no thanks. One drunk pax at a time is plenty for me. As I said, I'm sure other people would handle it differently than I did, but I'm comfortable with my choice. (And if you ever do find yourself in this situation, please provide us with video of you telling the drunk dude at midnight that he has to make the trip 30 miles to her place - and 30 miles back to his, and pay for the roundtrip.)

I'll bring the popcorn to watch that exchange.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

stuber said:


> Not sure what I would have done. Perhaps this. Go to the original PICK location. Call customer. Request/require that the customer text complete instructions in order to have documented proof of the whole matter. Then proceed to the actual PICK location. Press arrive. Speak to the customer to confirm everything. Receive from customer $100 cash. Then cancel the job (do not bill customer). Then ask for another $100 cash and take the drunk woman home. If the second $100 is not forthcoming, then just leave and go home.
> Once home and logged out, then email UBER to report a dangerous and threatening customer forced me to cancel the job. Sorry.


better hope you're not in an accident while pulling that caper off - because you would be 100% without insurance coverage: your company wouldn't cover you because you were ridesharing - and Uber would be off the hook because you were off the clock.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Last night at midnight I get a ping from a 4.6 PAX 10 mi away. It was in the direction of where I live (far eastern suburbs) and I figured there was at least a 50/50 chance the ride would be to someplace in the area. And it was UberSELECT, ($4/base + 2.25/mi + $0.35/min) so short or long, the ride is going to be profitable. 2 minutes into the drive to the pick-up, PAX calls and asks if it's ok to change the pick-up location - and offers to pay me for the add'l driving - I tell him 'no problem' and he txts me the new location - another 10 miles further out... two more towns away, in another county: beyond the Uber coverage area.
> 
> *Obviously, he couldn't get a car on the app without putting in the 'fake' pick-up first and then changing it after it was accepted.* But at least he did it as SELECT, and offered to compensate for the long pick-up drive... so, even though he's trying to BS me, it's out towards my home anyway and I continue to the new pick-up location.
> 
> ...


Might work great until the person who ordered the fare looks at the trip map and sez wtf! to Uber.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

thehappytypist said:


> Hopefully she won't have any problems with the amount of the fare. If she writes in, I guarantee it'll get adjusted as a mis-timed trip.


Because even when customers lie, they're right.... in UberWorld.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

You got lucky. Most people are going to get lucky 50% to 80% of the time perhaps. Had it gone wrong, it could have been a major pain in the ass for you.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

It's tempting to play along with these UBER gamers and see what happens. But usually I regret it. I think the best policy, from reading this and other stories, is to simply cancel. If the pax is not at the indicated address or pinned location, just cancel with DO NOT BILL. Everything else is either trouble, or a giant complicated explanation. Cut your losses.

The last one I did where the location was wrong went like this: 

I go to the wrong PICK location and see that the address/pinned icon don't match. Call the customer. They tell me they're someplace else nearby and give me verbal instructions. I proceeded and found them five minutes away. They hop in and give me the typical entitled attitude. These people have no luggage and are not going to the airport (which is where I was trying to go) I drive them to the bar (naturally). Next day, my rating took a dive. F-em.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

stuber said:


> It's tempting to play along with these UBER gamers and see what happens. But usually I regret it. I think the best policy, from reading this and other stories, is to simply cancel. If the pax is not at the indicated address or pinned location, just cancel with DO NOT BILL. Everything else is either trouble, or a giant complicated explanation. Cut your losses.


Most incidents of pax gaming the pin are them setting the pin outside the surge to get a lower fare and then trying to redirect the driver to a surge location pickup. Problem is none of these idiots ever call ahead, but make the driver go to the dead pickup spot and make the driver call them. This is always due cause for a cancel and charge.

The second bad pin locate is from drunks who often miss their location because they're too smashed to operate the app or they wander off a few blocks between time of ping and pickup. Again, cancel and charge.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> "You're an idiot and I did no such thing. *I accepted the fare* and *the terms negotiated between the myself and the pax.*"





> "I get there (30 min drive) and it turns out the guy on the phone had * used this girl's phone/Uber acc't *to get* her very drunk butt* back to her home. He opens the door, pushes her out and disappears back inside, while I help her waddle into the car. I tap BEGIN RIDE and the destination is back in Cleveland - 30 miles. If this had been UberX I'd have cancelled... but I do the math in my head and drive her home while * she sleeps in the back seat*, and *all the while I'm thinking about how to get compensated* for the additional time and pick-up drive miles."


*Incongruous statements.*


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## OCBob (Jan 20, 2015)

DenverDiane said:


> You stole from the passenger. You accepted the ride and you (eventually) knew where the ride was located. You took advantage of an intoxicated woman to pad your miles. It's a scummy thing to do. You should feel bad about it instead of humble bragging about it on an internet forum but obviously you do not have the internal sense of right and wrong needed for such feelings.


He might have did it wrong (I would have demanded cash before the drunk gets in the car). Hopefully he has text of being compensated and it didn't really happen unless he ghost ride. Best scenario would be to start ride at the original place. If 10 miles out then that is a pretty good fare regardless of the rating that he might have taken if he decided to cancel once he arrived at new location. Personally, that is the best option and then if you want to be sneaky, have her rate you a 5 star before she gets to her door. Tell her we need to end the trip so you will help her out.

As for DenverDiane,
shut up.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

DenverDiane said:


> I "figure this" because the driver knew how far the trip was - could have cancelled it at any time but did not and instead chose to - by his own admission - "pad" his miles in order to make what he thought his bad decision was worth. ...


Again - you're an idiot.
I did not know how far the pick-up was because the pax 'gamed' the system by knowingly entering a flase pick-up point. In other words, the PAX LIED. Not sure what you do not understand about that. I did not know the trip length because, as you know if you've made even a single trip, the driver isn't shown the destination until after beginning the trip at the pick-up location. By my own admission, all I did was 'pad' the miles at the end of the trip in order to charge the pax the NEGOTIATED and AGREED upon additional fare amount. Drunk passengers using the Uber system to 'scam' drivers is something I will not tolerate.


> But the short version is that I "figure this" because I have a sense of right and wrong - just as most people do.


B.S. I "figured" this because the pax reached a negotiated fare agreement after lying to me about the pick-up location to scam me into making the pick-up.

You're a real piece of work.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Huberis said:


> You got lucky. Most people are going to get lucky 50% to 80% of the time perhaps. Had it gone wrong, it could have been a major pain in the ass for you.


Maybe... but as I've said repeatedly now, based on the situation at the time, it's what I chose - and others could have made other choices. I determined the downside for my choice was a fare adjustment of around $15. Not a big deal. And that didn't happen. Happy rider - annoyed, but relatively happy driver. win-win.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

OCBob said:


> He might have did it wrong (I would have demanded cash before the drunk gets in the car). Hopefully he has text of being compensated and it didn't really happen unless he ghost ride. Best scenario would be to start ride at the original place. If 10 miles out then that is a pretty good fare regardless of the rating that he might have taken if he decided to cancel once he arrived at new location. Personally, that is the best option and then if you want to be sneaky, have her rate you a 5 star before she gets to her door. Tell her we need to end the trip so you will help her out.
> 
> As for DenverDiane,
> shut up.


Michael said he negotiated with the pax on the fare. Uh, no, by his own statements he didn't and made up the scheme on his own after the fact and NOT with pax agreement. Don't blame DDiane for reading Michaels statements of fact and seeing the glaring difference in claims to reality.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

stuber said:


> It's tempting to play along with these UBER gamers and see what happens. But usually I regret it. I think the best policy, from reading this and other stories, is to simply cancel. If the pax is not at the indicated address or pinned location, just cancel with DO NOT BILL. Everything else is either trouble, or a giant complicated explanation. Cut your losses.


In general I agree and do exactly the same thing...
but remember, in this particular instance I was already heading towards my home and figured a 50/50 chance the ride would be in the general area. I lost that bet and had to drive 30 miles for the trip... and then 30 miles back. But because, in this one very specific instance, the fare was SELECT and the pax agreed to additional compensation, I agreed to do the trip.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

DenverDiane said:


> And you are a thief.
> A Thief with no moral sense yet who still (??!) feels the need to justify his immoral actions on an internet forum.
> Better drive a few more hours - you're going to need it for the therapy kid.


You are an idiot. A fairly good sign of whether your opinion on something is correct is to measure it against the rationale of others. As you can see from the responses here, you're not just in the minority opinion - you stand alone in your idiocy. *Even the passenger has not so much as questioned the legitimacy of this trip or how I handled it*.

Had you come on here and said that you disagreed with how this trip was handled and offered constructive advise on how you might have handled it, I'd have a different opinion of you. But, no - you came on here and called me a 'thief' and 'immoral'.
Absurd assertions and personal attacks on me and my character.
*That not only makes you an idiot - it makes you an asshole.*


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> *Incongruous statements.*


Only to you. Fortunately, you were not involved.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

DenverDiane said:


> And you are a thief.
> A Thief with no moral sense yet who still (??!) feels the need to justify his immoral actions on an internet forum.
> Better drive a few more hours - you're going to need it for the therapy kid.


Yes, there does appear to be several holes in his claims.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Only to you. Fortunately, you were not involved.


Just reading Michael. You obviously did not negotiate the deal with the pax by your own admissions. You did the deal with the boyfriend, supposedly, but made up the difference on your own well after the pax was in the ride, sleeping in the backseat. Can't have it both ways.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Michael said he negotiated with the pax on the fare. Uh, no, by his own statements he didn't and made up the scheme on his own after the fact and NOT with pax agreement. Don't blame DDiane for reading Michaels statements of fact and seeing the glaring difference in claims to reality.


No - you're just choosing to read what you want - as usual. The passenger and I negotiated a fare after he lied to me about the pick-up location. At the pick-up, he was too drunk to fulfill his end of the agreement as promised (disappeared inside his house). I used the Uber system to complete the agreement (and even got Uber their 25% cut).


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

DenverDiane said:


> - just putting you on ignore now.


THANK YOU!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Just reading Michael. You obviously did not negotiate the deal with the pax by your own admissions. You did the deal with the boyfriend, supposedly...


I did the 'deal' with whoever was using the app. period. I'm not responsible for who is using another's app... they app owner is. I would have had no way of knowing either way.



> but made up the difference on your own well after the pax was in the ride,


Not even close to what actually happened, as I described in detail.

Your usual BS, buddy... it's no wonder so many people just block you here.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> No - you're just choosing to read what you want - as usual. The passenger and I negotiated a fare after he lied to me about the pick-up location. At the pick-up, he was too drunk to fulfill his end of the agreement as promised (disappeared inside his house). I used the Uber system to complete the agreement (and even got Uber their 25% cut).


But you said it was her phone and her account.

I'm not blaming you for getting 'your self determined fare' but that was clearly done without the pax permission and after drop off. You might have looked even more foolish getting into an accident without the pax in the car but a fare still engaged.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You usual BS, buddy... it's no wonder *so many people* just block you here.


*Which makes you right?* lol


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> *Which makes you right?* lol


Finally - a good question as opposed to your BS.
I'm not sure it was 'right'... I don't know that any of the choices I could have made would have been perfect and fair and equitable - as I've said. I made a decision based on what I knew at the time in this very specific circumstance, weighing all of the options I could think of to come up with something that would be fair and equitable to both the passenger and to me. Another time and place with different circumstances I would likely have made a different decision - and faced with the same set of circumstances, some would do what I chose, others would do something else.

In the end, I am glad that I didn't just cancel the ride and go home (as many here have suggested). That would have been the easiest thing to do since I live just 10-15 minutes from the 'actual' pick-up location. I wouldn't have been out much in either time or mileage.

But I didn't like the idea of leaving the young lady stranded in a driveway at midnight, drunk, doors closed in her face - in the middle of East Bumf*ck. So I made sure she got home safely, and I got compensated fairly and equitably.

*The passenger has had the last word on this. 
If she'd had a problem with the fare, she'd have let Uber know by now - or called me to ask 'wtf?'*


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I did the 'deal' with whoever was using the app. period. I'm not responsible for who is using another's app... they app owner is. I would have had no way of knowing either way.


Presumably you had a female pax name and a male voice on the phone?



> Not even close to what actually happened, as I described in detail.


Go read your own statements. You did NOT negotiate with the pax by your own statements, which is also what Diane READ from your own statements.

Just reading man. Doesn't make others the bad guy. I'd be totally OK with what you did IF the pax agreed to it but that does not appear to be the case by your own statements. It's also problematic to say a pax agreed to anything if it's all verbal in any case and it came down to a dispute other than if the pax texted you and said it was OK to take your self described 6 mile add on prior to dropping her off.

I doubt Uber would be interested in paying any driver humming around with the meter running without a pax in the vehicle.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DenverDiane said:


> And you are a thief.
> A Thief with no moral sense yet who still (??!) feels the need to justify his immoral actions on an internet forum.
> Better drive a few more hours - you're going to need it for the therapy kid.


Stop with the thief BS. He got paid to go from the original agreed upon pickup location as per the pax and then to a secondary location per the pax instructions and then a final destination. He just got paid by adding the miles at the end.

Probably would have been better to start from the original location (with pax permission have him text "please start trip from location given in app". Could also record him saying that--many apps to do that too. Depending on state you may or may not need his permission). Then if you get to where he is and decide not to pick up end trip. Tell uber he was drunk and disorderly and you felt threatened.

But no matter what he's not a thief. I guess you haven't been ripped off enough by pax yet to want to get paid for every mile they make you drive extra by misplacing pins on purpose OR not.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

DenverDiane said:


> And you are a thief.
> A Thief with no moral sense yet who still (??!) feels the need to justify his immoral actions on an internet forum.
> Better drive a few more hours - you're going to need it for the therapy kid.


It's certainly dicey, but your moral indignation is, well, wrong. Stop the name calling.

The boyfriend was gaming the system outside of the UBER rules. Thus the driver should be freed from any UBER policy which would restrict his negotiations with the boyfriend ( who was acting as the passenger's representative.). Again, it's dicey.

Was she (the drunken passenger) giving the boyfriend consent to negotiate a trip? Who knows?

It seems like the driver acted in good faith, given the circumstances.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I did the 'deal' with whoever was using the app. period. I'm not responsible for who is using another's app... they app owner is. I would have had no way of knowing either way.
> 
> Not even close to what actually happened, as I described in detail.
> 
> You usual BS, buddy... it's no wonder so many people just block you here.


If uber wants us to only do deals with the app owner then we need real names and ability to check IDs and we only carry the pax with his passengers but he or she has to be in the car. Otherwise it's not our responsibility.

FYI with transvestites and transgender folks the name often will not fit the appearance and I'm not about to get into a discussion with a stranger about THAT. Rude and insulting. If they know the account name and my name that's all I need per uber.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Stop with the thief BS. He got paid to go from the original agreed upon pickup location *as per the pax* and then to a secondary location per the pax instructions and then a final destination. He just got paid by adding the miles at the end.
> 
> Probably would have been better to start from the original location (with pax permission have him text "please start trip from location given in app". Could also record him saying that--many apps to do that too. Depending on state you may or may not need his permission). Then if you get to where he is and decide not to pick up end trip. Tell uber he was drunk and disorderly and you felt threatened.
> 
> But no matter what he's not a thief. I guess you haven't been ripped off enough by pax yet to want to get paid for every mile they make you drive extra by misplacing pins on purpose OR not.


But it wasn't *as per the pax.* It was with the guy on the phone using the pax's phone and app.

Here's what he said he did. *He padded the miles*. And this padding was done, presumably with a verbal agreement with the guy on the phone, not the female pax.

Here is Michael figuring out how to do this after the fare was in play by his own words:

"but I do the math in my head and drive her home while * she sleeps in the back seat*, and *all the while I'm thinking about how to get compensated* for the additional time and pick-up drive miles."

*"I've never 'padded' miles before, but it was the only way I could think of to get paid per the agreement made with the guy"*

For all we know the female pax could have been been slipped a ruffie by the guy.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Presumably you had a female pax name and a male voice on the phone?


ha - glad you asked... I left that out for the sake of brevity... but that was actually part of the problem. As you know, Uber (and Lyft) allow people to put whatever name they want in the app when they sign up. So while the name on the pick-up wasn't "E" or "BD" (like we've all seen) it was "Xiaxio".

You tell me what gender that name is!



> Go read your own statements.


ummm... I don't need to - I WROTE them. If I wasn't clear on something, I'd be happy to clarify. If you don't understand them or chose to 'interpret' them or make assumptions about them, that's your problem, not mine. You and I have been down this road before in other threads, so lets be clear: you have an agenda of obstinacy - as anyone who reads your posts knows.



> I'd be totally OK with what you did IF the pax agreed to it. It's also problematic to say a pax agreed to anything if it's all verbal in any case and it came down to a dispute other than if the pax texted you and said it was OK


Glad to hear that. Because the txts back me up on the additional fare amount agreement.



> to take your self described 6 mile add on prior to dropping her off.


And I agree with you there - it was and is problematic for me. I made a choice to get paid the agreed amount the only way I could. I didn't start the trip 10 miles before the pick-up, because that wasn't the agreement - and it would not have been legit. I wanted to give the PAX the opportunity to pay the additional compensation at the end of the trip - but she was too drunk to be able to do so. And that's whay I made the choice to add 6 miles to the trip. Not a perfect solution by any means - but absolutely fair and equitable. And apparently the passenger agrees (so far - fingers-crossed).



> I doubt Uber would be interested in paying any driver humming around with the meter running without a pax in the vehicle.


Well, as you know, Uber doesn't pay the driver - the rider does. But I agree with your point and that was why I posted the topic here to begin with. I don't like that I was scammed into making the pick-up. I don't like that whoever made the fare agreement with me - txt msg record confirmed - did not follow-though on their end (likely due to intoxication rather than trying to steal from me).

I DO like that I truly took care of a drunk young woman who needed to travel a very long distance late at night to get home. And I am 'ok' with the financial outcome that provided me with a bit extra for the trip (about 10% after Uber's cut) and I'm 'ok' with the fact that the pax has not complained about the fare (and that I still have a perfect 5* rating for the last few days).


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> ha - glad you asked... I left that out for the sake of brevity... but that was actually part of the problem. As you know, Uber (and Lyft) allow people to put whatever name they want in the app when they sign up. So while the name on the pick-up wasn't "E" or "BD" (like we've all seen) it was "Xiaxio".
> 
> You tell me what gender that name is!


How and when did you figure out it was the female pax's phone and account?

Don't get me wrong. I am not blaming you for a deal you struck in good faith, presumably with the pax. Just pointing out that it wasn't with the pax by your own statements. And obviously later information such as Xiaxio pax name would add to your confusions.

I might have also tagged the miles with pax in ride before ending the fare OR even texting yourself an authorization for a 6 mile detour on the pax's phone...but you'd have been safer to tag/pad your miles with pax intact before ending the fare. The pax can easily point to 'home' in case of dispute and say "this is where I was dropped off, here is where the fare ended."

It kind of shows the perils of doing math/fares on the fly outside of the system in any case of observations.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> But you said it was her phone and her account. I'm not blaming you for getting 'your self determined fare' but that was clearly done without the pax permission and after drop off.


As usual, you are making assumptions about something you weren't involved in. It doesn't matter to me whether you think there was an agreement. It only matters to me and the passenger - and I can assure you I can back that up to Uber if necessary... it was a 'gamed/scammed' pick-up - and I was owed for the additional miles... and the txt record shows the user of the app agreed to that.



> You might have looked even more foolish getting into an accident without the pax in the car but a fare still engaged.


Once again, your usual way to try to make something up that doesn't exist and isn't the topic.
If I had been in an accident with no pax in the car (and meter running), it would have been exactly the same as an accident without the meter running. Think about it. (and if you want to argue it, start a new thread/topic... might be worth discussing)


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Once again, your usual way to try to make something up that doesn't exist and isn't the topic.
> If I had been in an accident with no pax in the car (and meter running), it would have been exactly the same as an accident without the meter running. Think about it. (and if you want to argue it, start a new thread/topic... might be worth discussing)


Thought it was an interesting side note. If you got knocked out in an accident with the fare still running and woke up a week later.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> How and when did you figure out it was the female pax's phone and account?


When the dude closed his door and left the girl standing in his driveway.



> Don't get me wrong. I am not blaming you for a deal you struck in good faith, presumably with the pax. Just pointing out that it wasn't with the pax by your own statements. And obviously later information such as Xiaxio pax name would add to your confusions.


 I disagree - The agreement was made with whoever was using the app - and that's all I need to know. I understand your point - but I disagree - and I was the one there.



> I might have also tagged the miles with pax in ride before ending the fare OR even texting yourself an authorization for a 6 mile detour on the pax's phone...but you'd have been safer to tag/pad your miles with pax intact before ending the fare. The pax can easily point to 'home' in case of dispute and say "this is where I was dropped off, here is where the fare ended."


I absolutely agree... and now that you mention it, *a better solution might have been to just take a 6 mile longer route to the destination*. But the problem with that would be to deny the pax the opportunity to live up to the agreement at the end of the ride. Still - that probably would have been a better choice - and I'll consider that next time I find myself in a similar situation.



> It kind of shows the perils of doing math/fares on the fly outside of the system in any case of observations.


Absolutely.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> When the dude closed his door and left the girls standing in his driveway.
> 
> I disagree - The agreement was made with whoever was using the app - and that's all I need to know. I understand your point - but I disagree - and I was the one there.


Then the deal should have been affirmed with the pax. I know, too late now once you're there. If she was drunk enough she'd probably have agreed with it anyway, but it looks like you were still running the math on how to actually do it after the fare was well underway.



> I absolutely agree... and now that you mention it, a better solution might have been to just take a 6 mile longer route to the destination. But the problem with that would be to deny the pax the opportunity to live up to the agreement at the end of the ride. Still - that probably would have been a better choice - and I'll consider that next time I find myself in a similar situation.


You could have claimed the pax issued a redirect on the way home. Less potential to ***** about it after the fact.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

DenverDiane said:


> You stole from the passenger. You accepted the ride and you (eventually) knew where the ride was located. You took advantage of an intoxicated woman to pad your miles. It's a scummy thing to do. You should feel bad about it instead of humble bragging about it on an internet forum but obviously you do not have the internal sense of right and wrong needed for such feelings.


Yey! Drunken Sisters Yey! Get tossed out by the "Boyfriend" in the care of a stranger who has been duped to save your drunken ass - UBERBF!

Sisters! travel in UBER safety! You don't have to tip, you don't care what it costs the UBERBF to drive your sorry ass and best of all you don't have to swallow to get a ride home.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> ...looks like you were still running the math on how to actually do it after the fare was well underway.


Not "still". I only started running the math when it became apparent that the pax (him or her) might not be sober enough to live up to the agreement. Remember - I'd already been scammed into the pickup to begin with!



> You could have claimed the pax issued a redirect on the way home. Less potential to ***** about it after the fact.


Another good option - but it would require lying and I can't do that.
But next time (god forbid), I'll remember to say to the drunk passenger:
- hey, I'm going to take a route that's x miles longer so that I get paid as we agreed, okay?"
- (pax: 'yeah, whatever... <hiccup> just get me home... ZZzzzzz')


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

DenverDiane said:


> Like I told the other thief. Man up, grow a pair, and admit you(he) made a wrong call. But don't go justifying stealing from the passenger because you weren't smart enough to not take a bad call in the first place. You make a mistake - you eat it, but you don't steal (and padding miles is stealing from the pax).


Well, in retrospect with additional facts Michael DID think he worked out a deal with the pax on a fare that should have never happened to begin with. It's one of the flaws in the app, long distance pings and failure to allow drivers to charge to accommodate. I expect this might get remedied at some point to some driver satisfaction.

For the Select fare I might have been figuring too. For UberX? Forget it. Call a cab and wait. See if one shows up in a couple hours or more.


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## Selcric (Sep 1, 2014)

Lol @ this thread. Call me names - but the bottom line is this was a bad deal. Uber does not side with you per their terms regardless of whatever "deal " you struck with whoever you talked to. Driving with no pax after the dropoff is stealing. Dosen't mean I don't think you got screwed. It's just a matter of policy any agreement outside of Uber's system is grounds for deactivation whether you are a IC or not. Sometimes shit is just not fair. You did get lucky no recourse was explored by the pax.

And if you think I'm off base, why don't you have Uber settle it once and for all? I'd love to see those exchange of emails. Something tells me that won't happen, because deep down you know it was wrong, even though the feeling for compensation was stronger and acted on. 
Again, bad situation, you got screwed and your time was wasted, but all moral/entitlement feelings aside, and from a strictly policy stand point (right or wrong), you done f*cked up and got real lucky.


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## Selcric (Sep 1, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Well, in retrospect with additional facts Michael DID think he worked out a deal with the pax on a fare that should have never happened to begin with. .


Doesn't matter though. Uber does not care about deals made - and has deactivated drivers in the past. I'm not advocating one way or the other, drivers and pax make deals all the time in good faith. Sometimes they work out, and when they don't, drivers get screwed. In this case he believed he was to get compensation and did not. He can't email Uber and say "well this guy offered me extra money for driving out of the designated pick up area, but didn't follow through. " Uber will be unhappy with deal made outside of system, and doubly unhappy for doing a pick up in an undesignated area, and not as the result of a passenger drop off.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

DenverDiane said:


> Like I told the other thief. Man up, grow a pair, and admit you(he) made a wrong call. But don't go justifying stealing from the passenger because you weren't smart enough to not take a bad call in the first place. You make a mistake - you eat it and learn from it. What you don't do is steal (and padding miles is stealing from the pax), write about your theft on teh internetz and then go whining and crying like a baby when someone rightly calls you out on it.


You are an idiot.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

DenverDiane said:


> Like I told the other thief. Man up, grow a pair, and admit you(he) made a wrong call. But don't go justifying stealing from the passenger because you weren't smart enough to not take a bad call in the first place. You make a mistake - you eat it and learn from it. What you don't do is steal (and padding miles is stealing from the pax), write about your theft on teh internetz and then go whining and crying like a baby when someone rightly calls you out on it.


And what about the "mistake" that silly cow made? Stranded 30 miles from home, got herself stupid drunk in the company of people that don't care for her, allow others to purchase services on her account and credit card.

Why don't YOU and all the other drunken gutter crawling *****es that UBERX and Cab Drivers help home safely every week in every city in the world show a little gratitude that some stranger took pity and helped you home safely!! And in the process YOU think it's OK to steal from the driver's table?

Give me and @michael-cleveland and all the 1000s of drivers a break you heartless, ungrateful cow.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Selcric said:


> Doesn't matter though. Uber does not care about deals made - and has deactivated drivers in the past. I'm not advocating one way or the other, drivers and pax make deals all the time in good faith. Sometimes they work out, and when they don't, drivers get screwed. In this case he believed he was to get compensation and did not. He can't email Uber and say "well this guy offered me extra money for driving out of the designated pick up area, but didn't follow through. " Uber will be unhappy with deal made outside of system, and doubly unhappy for doing a pick up in an undesignated area, and not as the result of a passenger drop off.


I don't think it was outside Uber's coverage area, just a ping Michael wouldn't have had to deal with had a pax not manipulated the pin location and then called to 'cut another deal' on a redirect/bad pin locate, which UBER allows btw. The redirect effort to a correct location. Agree with you on not having fares run without pax inhabitants. THAT's a no no. That and not clearing the 'deal' with the real pax are the only real flaws on Michael's end, even if she was drunk. She would have probably taken the deal regardless, BUT he did run his add on/padded numbers on the fly.

It's just kind of a marginal deal all the way around but I'd say any of us at $2.35 a mile would be trying to figure out a way to serve that pax as well. I would too.

At $2.35 a mile a straight run should have been maybe sufficient?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DenverDiane said:


> Like I told the other thief. Man up, grow a pair, and admit you(he) made a wrong call. But don't go justifying stealing from the passenger because you weren't smart enough to not take a bad call in the first place. You make a mistake - you eat it and learn from it. What you don't do is steal (and padding miles is stealing from the pax), write about your theft on teh internetz and then go whining and crying like a baby when someone rightly calls you out on it.


I'm not the one who did this. I'm another driver telling you to stop being so f***ing judgemental.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Well, in retrospect with additional facts Michael DID think he worked out a deal with the pax on a fare that should have never happened to begin with. It's one of the flaws in the app, long distance pings and failure to allow drivers to charge to accommodate... For the Select fare I might have been figuring too. For UberX? Forget it. Call a cab and wait. See if one shows up in a couple hours or more.


NOW you're getting the big picture and all the nuances of the situation. Cancelling and leaving the pax stranded was the only clear-cut, policy-perfect solution available. All the other options were flawed in one way or another - including the one I chose. That's why I posted the thread... to examine the options (not to be judged personally for my choice... a choice I am comfortable with, despite the repeated 'thief' bullsh*t postings by the DenverDiane idiot).

*I really appreciate all of the thoughtful comments and suggestions made here. 
They've helped me - and I'm sure they been good food for thought for other drivers.*


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## Selcric (Sep 1, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I don't think it was outside Uber's coverage area, just a ping Michael wouldn't have had to deal with had a pax not manipulated the pin location and then called to 'cut another deal' on a redirect/bad pin locate, which UBER allows btw.





Michael - Cleveland said:


> - and offers to pay me for the add'l driving - I tell him 'no problem' and he txts me the new location - another 10 miles further out... two more towns away, in another county: beyond the Uber coverage area.
> 
> *Obviously, he couldn't get a car on the app without putting in the 'fake' pick-up first and then changing it after it was accepted.*


No matter what the whole thing was bad. Obviously I side with Micheal and the frustration, but from a policy perspective Uber would say nope.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> I don't think it was outside Uber's coverage area...


No - it really was outside of the Uber coverage area. As I explained in the first post... the pax was actually in another county - one outside of Uber's coverage for my vicintity.



> It's just kind of a marginal deal all the way around but I'd say any of us at $2.35 a mile would be trying to figure out a way to serve that pax as well. I would too.


Yup.



> At $2.35 a mile a straight run should have been maybe sufficient?


I agree - it absolutely would have been sufficient -
IF I HADN'T BEEN SCAMMED INTO DRIVING 20+ MILES TO MAKE THE PICK-UP!
And that was kind of the whole point of the thread, titled:
* "PAX 'gaming' the pick-up location to get an Uber ride"
*
You have to keep in mind when considering my options - and what I chose - and what you might have done that
*THIS ALL STARTED WITH A LIE FROM THE PASSENGER.*
(so FU DenverDiane and your BS judgemental attacks)


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Selcric said:


> No matter what the whole thing was bad. Obviously I side with Micheal abs the frustration, but from a policy perspective Uber would say nope.


They would only be able to pinch him for the extra 6 miles. Presuming the pax protested. And that could bring other repercussions to Michael such as running a fare without a pax resulting in deactivation.

For $12-16 she probably was thankful to have had the ride.

Just not sure why that extra $12-16 was critical to Michael when the dollars per mile is already excellent. Most of us would run long distance for that kind of $ per mile rate.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> No - it really was outside of the Uber coverage area. As I explained in the first post... the pax was actually in another county - one outside of Uber's coverage for my vicintity.
> 
> Yup.
> 
> ...


Just surprised their coverage area is that tight. In most places where Uber is active their system covers most of the state. The coverage area had to run to pax pickup location to get a fare to start wouldn't it?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Just not sure why that extra $12-16 was critical to Michael when the dollars per mile is already excellent. Most of us would run long distance for that kind of $ per mile rate.


It was as much about the principle as the $.
The PAX 'gamed' the Uber system to take advantage of me.
I was determined to provide a fair and equitable solution.
I did that.
I twisted policy in knots and crossed lines to do it - but it was the choice I made at the time. And it was absolutely fair and equitable, if not policy picture-perfect.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> It was as much about the principle as the $. Someone 'gamed' the Uber system to take advantage of me. I was determined to provide a fair and equitable solution. I did that. I twisted policy in knots and crossed lines to do it - but it was the choice I made at the time. And it was absolutely fair and equitable, if not policy picture-perfect.


A 20 mile redirect at a 6 mile penalty was VERY generous on your part for their obvious manipulation. The only real flaw was doing the extra miles without the pax. Next time don't leave yourself open that way for such a paltry sum.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

DenverDiane said:


> I suppose your reaction to this says a great deal about your own personal morality. It's too bad that your mom never taught you to steal from others.


The real stealing started the minute somebody requested a ride with a bad/purposefully false address and sent the driver down the road on a dead end run.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Just surprised their coverage area is that tight. In most places where Uber is active their system covers most of the state. The coverage area had to run to pax pickup location to get a fare to start wouldn't it?


No, that's not how it works. Uber has a coverage map for each area it serves. The 'actual' pick-up location was 30 miles from an Uber covered city south of my Uber city which is 40 miles away. But there are far fewer drivers in that further south city. I have no doubt (still an assumption) that the pax 'hunted' for a driver by moving the pin around until they found one (lucky me).


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

DenverDiane said:


> Sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities but when someone steals from someone else then it's OK to call them out on it. I'm no Uber cheerleader myself but I am offended at the idea of scum of the earth types ripping off others when the other person is incapacitated (in this case drunk). HE might as well have gone into her purse and rolled her the money he felt he was "owed", owing in reality to his bad decision in taking the fare in the first place.
> 
> I suppose your reaction to this says a great deal about your own personal morality. It's too bad that your mom never taught you to steal from others.


You obviously have no idea what the word 'thief' means.
If you had acknowledged from the start that *this began with a LIE from the PAX (effectively stealing from me)* then we'd be having a different conversation.
But as it is, you're just an idiot.

As scrurbscrud said:


scrurbscrud said:


> The real stealing started the minute somebody requested a ride with a bad/purposefully false address and sent the driver down the road on a dead end run.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> No, that's not how it works. Uber has a coverage map for each area it serves. The 'actual' pick-up location was 30 miles from an Uber covered city south of my Uber city which is 40 miles away. But there are far fewer drivers in that further south city. I have no doubt (still an assumption) that the pax 'hunted' for a driver by moving the pin around until they found one (lucky me).


It is a coverage area though. Just not close enough for you to have gotten their ping without manipulations. Or maybe there was no 'select' in their area? I've driven Uber in cities that are 100 miles away from home Uber territory and still can get pings when there. In these areas pax can presumably still slide their pin just about anywhere in the entire coverage area and still get a ping, even if it's a bad pin locate. I've had pings from 60+ miles away with Uber.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

And let's not forget the driver financial risk doing a long distance pickup. Michael could have driven 19.9 miles to the pax and just before arrival or even after arrival without a 'begin trip' with a pax cancel he'd have gotten a cancel fee, probably 5 or 10 bucks for a 40 mile round tripper.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> It is a coverage area though. Just not close enough for you to have gotten their ping without manipulations. Or maybe there was no 'select' in their area? I've driven Uber in cities that are 100 miles away from home Uber territory and still can get pings when there. In these areas pax can presumably still slide their pin just about anywhere in the entire coverage area and still get a ping, even if it's a bad pin locate. I've had pings from 60+ miles away with Uber.


The area in which you can get a ping is unrelated to the Uber official coverage map. They don't put up electronic fences to prevent a call for a ride.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> The area in which you can get a ping is unrelated to the Uber official coverage map. They don't put up electronic fences to prevent a call for a ride.


I know. Was kind of saying the same thing. A pax in another city can move a pin to a different city and bad mark a pin and get a driver to pick it up. Which is what happened with you.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Really starting to wonder if the term "girlfriend" even applies here. She seems to be more of a "rental" in the retelling. I'm never leaving my drunken gf in the hands of a UBER driver or cabbie. Why wouldn't she just sleep over?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

stuber said:


> Really starting to wonder if the term "girlfriend" even applies here. She seems to be more of a "rental" in the retelling. I'm never leaving my drunken gf in the hands of a UBER driver or cabbie. Why wouldn't she just sleep over?


who cares? it's irrelevant.
(I wondered the same things - but it's none of my business)


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> But you said it was her phone and her account. I'm not blaming you for getting 'your self determined fare' but that was clearly done without the pax permission


Nope - It was not a 'self-determined' fare...
it was the negotiated fare -
the only way I would have agreed to make the pick-up after being lied to about the location.
(yes, I know you get this now... just catching up on older posts)


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## UberXtraordinary (Dec 13, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Last night at midnight I get a ping from a 4.6 PAX 10 mi away. It was in the direction of where I live (far eastern suburbs) and I figured there was at least a 50/50 chance the ride would be to someplace in the area. And it was UberSELECT, ($4/base + 2.25/mi + $0.35/min) so short or long, the ride is going to be profitable. 2 minutes into the drive to the pick-up, PAX calls and asks if it's ok to change the pick-up location - and offers to pay me for the add'l driving - I tell him 'no problem' and he txts me the new location - another 10 miles further out... two more towns away, in another county: beyond the Uber coverage area.
> 
> *Obviously, he couldn't get a car on the app without putting in the 'fake' pick-up first and then changing it after it was accepted.* But at least he did it as SELECT, and offered to compensate for the long pick-up drive... so, even though he's trying to BS me, it's out towards my home anyway and I continue to the new pick-up location.
> 
> ...


Totally reasonable. I have had pax tell me to leave it running for a few miles for things like this. next time make it clear what you intend to do to avoid post trip troubles, and low ratings.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Nope - It was not a 'self-determined' fare...
> it was the negotiated fare -
> the only way I would have agreed to make the pick-up after being lied to about the location.
> (yes, I know you get this now... just catching up on older posts)


Didn't see any particulars of the deal in your opener. Only this:

"and* offers to pay me for the add'l driving* - I tell him 'no problem"


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Didn't see any particulars of the deal in your opener. Only this:
> 
> "and* offers to pay me for the add'l driving* - I tell him 'no problem"


yeah... it was texting - there's a record.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> yeah... it was texting - there's a record.


Location/address wise, yes. But as stated prior there was no mention of what the 'deal' actually was as to particulars. That appeared to be entirely subjective on your part and determined after the fact as to how. That's why I said it was self determined on your part as to details.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberXtraordinary said:


> Totally reasonable. I have had pax tell me to leave it running for a few miles for things like this. next time make it clear what you intend to do...


It was a drunk passenger. I could have said 'we're driving to the moon & back so I can get paid for the miles' and she would've said 'fine <hiccup> Zzzzzz'.
If they had been sober enough to discuss the situation and understand what was going on, I'd have confirmed the agreement again at the pick-up location and this wouldn't have been an issue to begin with. But that wasn't the case here... thus the 'story'.



> ...to avoid post trip troubles, and low ratings.


And to be clear, again...
There were no post trip issues -
and as of now, 40 hours after the ride, I still have a perfect 5* rating for the day - and 4.97* for 7 days and the last 100 trips.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Location/address wise, yes. But as stated prior there was no mention of what the 'deal' actually was as to particulars. That appeared to be entirely subjective on your part and determined after the fact as to how. That's why I said it was self determined on your part as to details.


Indeed - and lesson learned. But it was only left to me because the pax (and her friend) were inebriated.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Indeed - and lesson learned. But it was only left to me because the pax (and her friend) were inebriated.


I am always reminded that in most TNC's transportation rules they 'by law' require the pax to know the fares/charges in advance, NOT to be determined by the drivers on the fly or by driver determined tag on's. In some cases they even ban cash fares, such as in Seattle.

It remains dangerous territory. Particularly if regulators decide to get hard on's for TNC's and their drivers. And reporters love to find ways to catch companies and drivers in various setups as well. And then there is Uber hiring cops as pax in Chicago (and possibly other places) as another potential kicker in the driver's faces. Or fake pax as checkers for Uber drivers customer service skills/performances.

For me long distance to pax fares are entirely driver risky business on many counts. Mostly so because the apps really are not set up properly to handle real driver costs to make such runs.

Yet we get hammered with them constantly.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

DenverDiane said:


> Sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities but when someone steals from someone else then it's OK to call them out on it. I'm no Uber cheerleader myself but I am offended at the idea of scum of the earth types ripping off others when the other person is incapacitated (in this case drunk). HE might as well have gone into her purse and rolled her the money he felt he was "owed", owing in reality to his bad decision in taking the fare in the first place.
> 
> I suppose your reaction to this says a great deal about your own personal morality. It's too bad that your mom never taught you to steal from others.


In some Countries she wouldn't have arrived home! Yet here she is, idiot with no self-control who was looked after by a Gentleman, scammed by a thief.

He was the unwitting meat in the sandwich

Why don't YOU grow "some" Honey-Buns? And respond to my posts?

Biggest side-stepping, Girls blouse I've met here.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

I believe some people see the problem is that the deal was with the guy who went inside and was never seen again. The passenger herself seemed to be outside the agreement. I also seem remember that the actual pick up point was in fact not too far from where you lived. You sure did get jerked around by that guy. The guy went in without passing you a nice front loaded tip for the trouble he put you through. At that point, if the actual ride wasn't sufficient, and you didn't have faith in the woman tipping you, well you gave yourself a tip whereby the woman who actual got the ride, who paid for it- she didn't tip you. You know where the guy lives, it would take some pretty big stones to drop by on another day and hit him up for the compensation (bad idea). You left with the woman having been lied to. You basically justified paying part for part of your drive back home, assuming I remember correctly that you lived within ten minutes of the actual pick- up spot. Following the thread, sometimes it reads as if you are trying to blur who the passenger was, who actually paid (pax) with who ordered the car and who promised and compensation and failed. They aren't the same people. The woman got out and declined to tip you: she never agreed to by your own account.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

>> believe some people see the problem is that the deal was with the guy who went inside<<<

Maybe that's how some people see it, but they are wrong. The ride was negotiated with a person via the app. I had no control over who was using the app.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

That is pretty weak. Early on in your earliest posts, you seem to clearly suggest you were well aware it was the man who was the force behind the ride and the man who made the offer to compensate you. Clearly, you expected a cash reward because you seem to note that the man went inside and refused to come to the door. I highly doubt that whatever the agreement it was legally binding for the simple reason that there doesn't seem to be any mention of a monetary amount. The woman, arguably has the right not to fulfill the agreement with you at the other end for the simple reason that you stated: you claim you negotiated with someone via the app itself. She could simply claim "Hey- I didn't promise that, that was my bf, I didn't give him permission to promise that on my behalf!" Since the OP of this thread, I have searched around online, there are stories of UBER drivers running the ride long, not closing the ride when it was appropriate. I doubt it happens often- but clearly per the OP it has happened at least once. CLearly, it is in the best advantage of a pax to watch the driver close their ride in front of them. A drunk woman having a tough time walking - probably doesn't have the capability to be sure of what is happening. From my personal experience, when someone promises to "take care of me" or "make it worth my while", those people are almost always the worst tippers and the biggest let down. If they can't come up with it at the start of the trip and I still run them - all bets are off as to how they will tip which is what the compensation is really about. People who have been drinking, will say anything they think the driver wants to hear to get the car to take them. It means little or nothing and they had been drinking. You most certainly were owed what the app charged them. Anything beyond that, discussed via txt....... Do you think it would have stood up in small claims court? If I take someone to a destination and they refuse to pay: I call the police asap. I do that in order to avoid small claims court. I don't make an agreement with my pax such that I count on them to "help me out". People are probably allowed to change their mind. - Seems to me, the idea behind the app and UBER is that there is no negotiating between the pax and driver. the cost of the ride doesn't involve cash. If you really felt cheated out of your ten bucks, you should have taken the guy to small claims court which we all know is a joke.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Huberis said:


> That is pretty weak. Early on in your earliest posts, you seem to clearly suggest you were well aware it was the man who was the force behind the ride and the man who made the offer to compensate you. Clearly, you expected a cash reward because you seem to note that the man went inside and refused to come to the door. I highly doubt that whatever the agreement it was legally binding for the simple reason that there doesn't seem to be any mention of a monetary amount. The woman, arguably has the right not to fulfill the agreement with you at the other end for the simple reason that you stated: you claim you negotiated with someone via the app itself. She could simply claim "Hey- I didn't promise that, that was my bf, I didn't give him permission to promise that on my behalf!" Since the OP of this thread, I have searched around online, there are stories of UBER drivers running the ride long, not closing the ride when it was appropriate. I doubt it happens often- but clearly per the OP it has happened at least once. CLearly, it is in the best advantage of a pax to watch the driver close their ride in front of them. A drunk woman having a tough time walking - probably doesn't have the capability to be sure of what is happening. From my personal experience, when someone promises to "take care of me" or "make it worth my while", those people are almost always the worst tippers and the biggest let down. If they can't come up with it at the start of the trip and I still run them - all bets are off as to how they will tip which is what the compensation is really about. People who have been drinking, will say anything they think the driver wants to hear to get the car to take them. It means little or nothing and they had been drinking. You most certainly were owed what the app charged them. Anything beyond that, discussed via txt....... Do you think it would have stood up in small claims court? If I take someone to a destination and they refuse to pay: I call the police asap. I do that in order to avoid small claims court. I don't make an agreement with my pax such that I count on them to "help me out". People are probably allowed to change their mind. - Seems to me, the idea behind the app and UBER is that there is no negotiating between the pax and driver. the cost of the ride doesn't involve cash. If you really felt cheated out of your ten bucks, you should have taken the guy to small claims court which we all know is a joke.


I have no idea why you are making this more complicated than it is or reading things into it that aren't there. That's your choice. I don't care. The story was posted to provide an example of something that came up and to see how other people might have handled a similar situation. I'm quite comfortable with how I handled it. And again, for the record, I was very clear about who I was dealing with. Its not my fault that I was scammed.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

I'm bored mostly. If you didn't care, you wouldn't respond. You were scammed as soon as you found out they weren't where they were claimed. From that point on, you were willing to work with them. I 'll tell you what, out of fairness to you, this will be my last comment on this thread. I guess what I find so distasteful about it is that you allowed yourself to use logic to make it okay to have pretty much stole from that woman's credit card. If someone promises me to give me "something" whatever that may be and they don't, it doesn't give me the right to go into their pocket or their GF's purse to help myself to what I think is fair. And really, to suggest you got scammed...... you put yourself in a position where I believe an experienced driver would have said I'll pass- If getting extra compensation was important. Comment as you like, I will bow out here. Enjoy your UBERING.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I have no idea why you are making this more complicated than it is for reading things into it that aren't there. that's your choice. I don't care. the story was posted to provide an example of something that came up and to see how other people might have handled a similar situation. I'm quite comfortable with how I handled it. And again, for the record, I was very clear about who I was dealing with. Its not my fault that I was scammed.


This is an excellent thread. I found it very instructive. These crazy situations arise from time to time, and there's often no clear best answer. Plus, in the midst of the things, I usually don't get time to weigh the options and evaluate the ramifications. So it's good to hash out these here. Thanks for being the guinea. I'll bet lots of drivers would have handled it worse.


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## CityGirl (Nov 29, 2014)

Well, the best answer is, I guess, that you shouldn't have gone out of the coverage zone in the first place. 
Since you agreed to based upon a promise of additional compensation, that would be outside the app and Uber can't get a cut, it's probably an issue with the contract.
But then again, it serves the customer, which is what you would think Uber would want.
At the point you felt the passenger would be stranded in the boondocks, you needed to remind yourself that Uber and you are not the only solutions for transportation in this world.
It was a rough one to call all around. I agree with charging the dead miles on the app on the front end, with customer consent, so that it is as kosher with Uber as it can be.

My real issue is with this customer, and all the others like him, who can't even be bothered to give a girl a ride home these days. Chivalry is truly dead.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

stuber said:


> This is an excellent thread. I found it very instructive. These crazy situations arise from time to time, and there's often no clear best answer. Plus, in the midst of the things, I usually don't get time to weigh the options and evaluate the ramifications. So it's good to hash out these here. Thanks for being the guinea. I'll bet lots of drivers would have handled it worse.


I'm glad you 'get it'.
I doubt I'll post things like this again though, even though I think this is exactly the kind of thing that needs to be discussed and kicked around. The personal attacks, judgment and nitpicking irrelevant things just aren't worth it.
Next time, I'll just post a hypothetical and let everyone else bash each other for their thoughts, comments and ideas.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

CityGirl said:


> Well, the best answer is, I guess, that you shouldn't have gone out of the coverage zone in the first place.


Not an option. Think about it...
You get an address and start driving to it.
It's not like there are signs up on the road (or in the NAV map) that say 'You're Leaving Uber Territory'.



> Since you agreed to based upon a promise of additional compensation, that would be outside the app and Uber can't get a cut, it's probably an issue with the contract.


Nope. Others will disagree, but the fare negotiation is between the PAX and the driver. And in this case, it went through Uber, so they got their cut. As everyone here knows, tips are discouraged by Uber and should not be requested. In this case, it was the PAX who texted me to ask if I wanted to be compensated for the extra miles to make the pick-up. In hindsight, I can see now exactly what they were doing - and that they knew what they were doing all along. But hindsight (unlike rear-view mirrors) is always 20/20.



> But then again, it serves the customer, which is what you would think Uber would want.


Also one of the things I was thinking about at the time.



> At the point you felt the passenger would be stranded in the boondocks, you needed to remind yourself that Uber and you are not the only solutions for transportation in this world.


Nope. At midnight, stranded on a country road 5 miles from the nearest main thoroughfare, 10 miles from the nearest town and probably 25 miles from the nearest cab (if any would have even made the trip out there), it was clear that I was the only transportation option. The choice I made was to either get this girl where she needed to go (home) or leave here where she was.



> It was a rough one to call all around. I agree with charging the dead miles on the app on the front end, with customer consent, so that it is as kosher with Uber as it can be.


Once I arrived at the actual pick-up location, it wasn't a tough call - I knew I had to giver her a ride. No way was I going to leave her in that driveway. I've got a daughter that age... so that was going through my mind, too. But, for me, deciding to add the 6.5 miles was a tough call. It would have been better to just drive an extra 6.5 miles in circles before dropping her off! But I really wanted to get her back to her home as quickly and safely as possible. So extending the ride was the next best option.



> My real issue is with this customer, and all the others like him, who can't even be bothered to give a girl a ride home these days. Chivalry is truly dead.


I don't know about chivalry, but what kind of jerk sets up a whole scheme like that and then sets his friend in the middle of it? He was buzzed, but not drunk like her... and he had the wherewithal to manipulate the app and convincingly BS me. And I'm not that easily BS'd.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Huberis said:


> Following the thread, sometimes it reads as if you are trying to blur who the passenger was, who actually paid (pax) with who ordered the car and who promised and compensation and failed. They aren't the same people.


Sorry if it's confusing to follow... hehe... think it was confusing to you? You should have been there!

But I disagree with you. As far as I am concerned, I took my orders from the app, and the person(s) who used the app to txt and call me. Doesn't matter to me if it was one person, one person acting on behalf of another or the two of them working in concert. It's not my responsibility to figure that out. Way above my pay grade.

It certainly wasn't my job to try to explain to a drunk rider in my car that the guy she was with used her app and or for me to ask her if it was ok with her. And *for all I know, it was she who ordered the ride in the first place (we are all just assuming he did it for her... but we do NOT know that)*.

If she had been more than half awake and sober, sure - I could have covered it with her and come to a better understanding (any understanding) of the situation... but drunk, there was no way that was going to happen - and I tend to not stick my nose where it doesn't belong. Who used the app with whose permission is between the two of them - not me.

If you have a different opinion, that's cool. That's why I posted the thread to begin with. To get other views...

But I'm comfortable with my decisions and actions, less than ideal as they were.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Huberis said:


> Early on in your earliest posts, you seem to clearly suggest you were well aware it was the man who was the force behind the ride...


I don't know what post you were reading but it wasn't from me. My post said quite clearly that I accepted a ping/ride-request and was contacted by the pax - who asked to change the pick-up location. I had (and have) no reason to believe that the person communicating with me was anyone other than the passenger.



> ...and the man who made the offer to compensate you. Clearly, you expected a cash reward...


Odd choice of words there... I never said anything about a 'reward' or 'cash'. He contacted me - changed the pick-up to a location much further away than the original location (scam to get a car out there) AND offered to compensate me for the additional miles I would have to drive. That's not a 'reward' - that's being fairly compensated for my time and expense. And there was no cash offered, discussed or exchanged at any time.



> ...because you seem to note that the man went inside and refused to come to the door.


I never said any such thing. When I arrived, he waved goodbye (to me? to the girl?) and went inside. Period.

The rest of your legal discussion is just irrelevant to me. Maybe you'd take the time to file a civil complaint in small claims court over $15, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't even argue too much with Uber over $15.
My time is more valuable to me than that.
YMMV


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DenverDiane said:


> Sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities but when someone steals from someone else then it's OK to call them out on it. I'm no Uber cheerleader myself but I am offended at the idea of scum of the earth types ripping off others when the other person is incapacitated (in this case drunk). HE might as well have gone into her purse and rolled her the money he felt he was "owed", owing in reality to his bad decision in taking the fare in the first place.
> 
> I suppose your reaction to this says a great deal about your own personal morality. It's too bad that your mom never taught you to steal from others.


Congratulations. You are my first "ignore" here.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I don't know what post you were reading but it wasn't from me. My post said quite clearly that I accepted a ping/ride-request and was contacted by the pax - who asked to change the pick-up location. I had no reason to believe that the person communicating with me was anyone other than the passenger.
> 
> Odd choice of words there... I never said anything about a 'reward'. He contacted me - changed the pick-up to a location much further away than the original location (scam to get a car out there) AND offered to compensate me for the additional miles I would have to drive. That's not a 'reward' - that's being fairly compensated for my time and expense.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter who was behind the ride. If Uber wants only the person with the credit card and the app to do the deal then they should say so. I gave no way of knowing who that is ever. All I get is the person gives me the name from the account and knows my name. Not my job to figure out who they are and if they are the account holder.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Bottom line on this thread is that the pax just wanted a ride. Driver decided to provide it, and got into their knickers for what amounts to $15 extra for a long run non-guaranteed fare, methods employed by the driver and false promises by the pax or the person who ordered the fare to make it worth his while notwithstanding.

The guy who ordered the fare should have just popped Michael a $20 when he showed up and not put the burden on Michael to have to figure it out. Most of us know when a pax asks a driver to do something out of the ordinary with a promise to make it worth our while it might not happen at least half the time.

IF I was the driver I wouldn't have put my own neck in a potential noose by going the extra distance without a pax. Too easy for pax or Uber to thumb him. Not worth the 15 bucks.


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## Driveronedge (Mar 3, 2015)

DenverDiane said:


> You stole from the passenger. You accepted the ride and you (eventually) knew where the ride was located. You took advantage of an intoxicated woman to pad your miles. It's a scummy thing to do. You should feel bad about it instead of humble bragging about it on an internet forum but obviously you do not have the internal sense of right and wrong needed for such feelings.


Seriously? At the very least I would've started the ride at the original pickup and not ended till drop off. Why do some ^^^ drivers have the idea that it's okay for a rider to scam us.....pretty sure no one's doing this for charity. If Uber wants 100% integrity then perhaps they should make that a Lil bit easier...


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## CityGirl (Nov 29, 2014)

Driveronedge said:


> Seriously? At the very least I would've started the ride at the original pickup and not ended till drop off. Why do some ^^^ drivers have the idea that it's okay for a rider to scam us.....pretty sure no one's doing this for charity. If Uber wants 100% integrity then perhaps they should make that a Lil bit easier...


This is the best outcome, I think.

If you didn't know you were leaving the coverage area, that's one thing. But you could have avoided the whole scenario by not agreeing to that in the first place. And yes, you could leave her where she was. There was no indication she was in danger. She got there somehow, so there is transportation.

I understand your good work ethic and concern for the girl / trying to be helpful got you into a moral dilemma. The point of reviewing it many different ways is to know what you will do next time this happens, where the line is between what you are obligated to do, what you are comfortable doing, and what is ethical. If it were me, I wouldn't even go out there in the first place in the future. YMMV.

P.S. Point Loma is beautiful. Luckily, it's in our coverage area


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

CityGirl said:


> If you didn't know you were leaving the coverage area, that's one thing. But you could have avoided the whole scenario by not agreeing to that in the first place.


Well, yeah.. of course... and I could never face that kind of situation if I didn't do ride-share. Moot point.



> And yes, you could leave her where she was. There was no indication she was in danger.


I consider a drunk young lady, shut out of a house, standing in a driveway in the middle of nowhere in 3o degree temps to be 'in danger'.
There is no doubt in my mind that she was far safer with me, on her way to her own home, than being left in whatever the situation was where I found her.



> She got there somehow, so there is transportation.


??? no... She got there... so there WAS transportation? You're assuming the same transportation was still available, and that's a terrible assumption... especially considering how drunk she was.



> If it were me, I wouldn't even go out there in the first place in the future. YMMV.


Way too many assumptions in your reply about what you think you would have done... I suspect (because I've read many of your other posts) that because you're a 'good person', faced with a similar situation, you would never leave that girl stranded in the driveway.

Again, hindsight is always 20/20...
making a decision in just seconds... that's a different reality.


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## CityGirl (Nov 29, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Well, yeah.. of course... and I could never face that kind of situation if I didn't do ride-share. Moot point.
> 
> I consider a drunk young lady, shut out of a house, standing in a driveway in the middle of nowhere in 3o degree temps to be 'in danger'.
> There is no doubt in my mind that she was far safer with me, on her way to her own home, than being left in whatever the situation was where I found her.
> ...


I think you are taking my comments as criticism, when in fact they are intended to utilize that 20/20 hindsight to achieve a better outcome next time. Knowing everything we know now, it would be wise not to put oneself in that situation again. Getting an out of area ping, knowing how it can turn out, you can say no next time.

I don't think any of the good people on this page would have stranded her. I'm trying to suggest that we would be better off avoiding those situations. And now that we know, we can.

And really, truthfully, except for maybe the fact that it was cold out, which I did not consider, she got herself into a situation where she didn't have a ride, but that doesn't mean she was unsafe, nor does it mean Uber was her only option.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

CityGirl said:


> I think you are taking my comments as criticism, ...


No, no, no! I'm sorry if I gave you that impression - I really appreciate your feedback and input. I was just countering with my own thoughts... not criticizing you!

And honestly, you have to know the area...
about her only other transportation option in that specific location and circumstance would have been a horse & saddle.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

CityGirl said:


> I don't think any of the good people on this page would have stranded her. I'm trying to suggest that we would be better off avoiding those situations. And now that we know, we can.


Nah... we'll all still fall victim to something like this at some point... our better angels will always lead us to make decisions that after-the-fact we realize we could have done it differently. It's that ol' 20/20 hindsight thing again - and optimism about 'getting it right' _next time_.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Nah... we'll all still fall victim to something like this at some point... our better angels will always lead us to make decisions that after-the-fact we realize we could have done it differently. It's that ol' 20/20 hindsight thing again - and optimism about 'getting it right' _next time_.


Let's face the fact that after getting off the couch and driving a couple miles for what could have been a dead end waste of money and time, when the redirect came, the drivers first instincts are always going to be 'how can I turn this $ loser into a non waste of time and $.'

All other factors take an instant back seat. Reality of the app should have just told you that you drive X miles to pickup and X miles to destination and you get X. Anything beyond that and you are putting your self at various risks and subject to questioning and bad results.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

DenverDiane said:


> Better yet I'll just use the "ignore" button - just as people do to you in real life


WTF??? You're in Denver - 2,000 miles from me. How did you know people ignore me in real life?!
(as if you would know anything about 'real life' hehe)


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## JJcriggins (Dec 28, 2014)

Uber is such a sh1tsh0w


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Selcric said:


> Doesn't matter though. Uber does not care about deals made - and has deactivated drivers in the past. I'm not advocating one way or the other, drivers and pax make deals all the time in good faith. Sometimes they work out, and when they don't, drivers get screwed. In this case he believed he was to get compensation and did not. He can't email Uber and say "well this guy offered me extra money for driving out of the designated pick up area, but didn't follow through. " Uber will be unhappy with deal made outside of system, and doubly unhappy for doing a pick up in an undesignated area, and not as the result of a passenger drop off.


Actually, it does matter. Uber's policy, which you don't seem to understand, is that* fare negotiation is entirely between the pax and the driver* (read your partner agreement. Driver control of fares is part of how Uber defend's their classification of driver's as independent contractors). Uber's policy is ALSO that all fares must be paid for through the Uber app.
My solution was in line with both policies.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Driver control of fares is part of how Uber defend's their classification of driver's as independent contractors).


Exactly! What Uber's lawyers tell the judge what drivers can do is NOT the same as what Uber's CSRs tell the driver what drivers can do. Uber is a HUGE bullshit machine.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Well, Uber wouldn't call it 'bullshit' -
they would define it as
_'*creative marketing to best support the needs of its customers and clients*'_.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Well, Uber wouldn't call it 'bullshit' -
> they would define it as
> _'*creative marketing to best support the needs of its customers and clients*'_.


They call it "disruptive".

Silicon Valley venture capitalists LOVE startups that say they are disruptive. Unfortunately the word is used too liberally to describe in a positive light what some companies are doing. I could start a company that murders people for profit, and that would qualify as being "disruptive" too.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> I could start a company that murders people for profit, and that would qualify as being "disruptive" too.


Don't be ridiculous.
It would only be disruptive if it was app based and used independent contractors.
("_Your honor, we are not a murder-for-hire company - we're just a tech start-up_")


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## Selcric (Sep 1, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Actually, it does matter. Uber's policy, which you don't seem to understand, is that* fare negotiation is entirely between the pax and the driver* (read your partner agreement. Driver control of fares is part of how Uber defend's their classification of driver's as independent contractors). Uber's policy is ALSO that all fares must be paid for through the Uber app.
> My solution was in line with both policies.


I'm just curious where in the app I can change the fare when a passenger requests a ride, you know, after we negotiate a price different than what's posted/given by uber.

Also, who would I email at the Uber office to let them know "Hey, I know you set the price at .90 a mile, but passenger x thought 1.75 a mile at .30 a minute was reasonable and this is what I'm charging everyone now. Please also adjust my surge pricing to 1.7 even though you were surging at 2.0, I had a passenger y that I negotiated with."

Also-I'd still like to see the email from the uber support that completely backs the decision to keep the app running after passenger drop off despite any agreement. I don't even know if they would be ok with explicit writing or consent. ..maybe in that case.

When you have other drivers claiming to be deactivated due to the suspected fraudulent activity (posted in some other thread) of ending a surge ride during a trip and letting the pax request you at a lower non-surge fare, I don't care what ubers policy is-take that into consideration that all transactions must be through the uber app -no cash, and It does not sound like room for negotiation and I have yet to meet one driver charging willy nilly through negotiations. If you could, the market price for an uber would be above .90 in LA. Most drivers would not charge that.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Selcric said:


> I'm just curious where in the app I can change the fare when a passenger requests a ride, you know, after we negotiate a price different than what's posted/given by uber.


Welcome to UberWorld. While you are SPECIFICALLY granted COMPLETE control over negotiating the fare with YOUR pax, Uber provides no means to affect that negotiated fare in their app. That will be one of the key points made by plaintiffs in the CA and MA federal class-action lawsuits over worker classification... and could very well be the hinge-pin that forces Uber to change the app to allow for changes in the fare and the acceptance of gratuities.

Regardless,* the fact that the Uber app doesn't currently allow the pax and driver to enter a negotiated fare in the app has ZERO bearing on the fact that the pax and driver, legally - by Uber's own defining terms in their agreements with both pax and driver - provide for such negotiation.*



> Also, who would I email at the Uber office to let them know "Hey, I know you set the price at .90 a mile, but passenger x thought 1.75 a mile at .30 a minute was reasonable and this is what I'm charging everyone now. Please also adjust my surge pricing to 1.7 even though you were surging at 2.0, I had a passenger y that I negotiated with."


Your local CSR, of course. 



> Also-I'd still like to see the email from the uber support that completely backs the decision to keep the app running after passenger drop off despite any agreement. I don't even know if they would be ok with explicit writing or consent. ..maybe in that case.


I'm not going there - but feel free to yourself.
I posted this thread without making it a hypothetical - and I am identifiable. If you read the entire thread you'll see that an Uber CSR has already responded (saying that if the pax wrote to complain, that the CSR would make an adjustment to the fare as a 'mis-timed ride'. The CSR did not say that I would be strung up by the neck to the nearest lamp-post.


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## Selcric (Sep 1, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Welcome to UberWorld. While you are SPECIFICALLY granted COMPLETE control over negotiating the fare with YOUR pax, Uber provides no means to affect that negotiated fare in their app. That will be one of the key points made by plaintiffs in the CA and MA federal class-action lawsuits over worker classification... and could very well be the hinge-pin that forces Uber to change the app to allow for changes in the fare and the acceptance of gratuities.
> 
> Regardless,* the fact that the Uber app doesn't currently allow the pax and driver to enter a negotiated fare has ZERO bearing on the fact that the pax and driver, legally - by Uber's own defining terms in their agreements with both pax and driver - provide for such negotiation.*
> 
> ...


Lucky to have good csr.


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## UberXtraordinary (Dec 13, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And to be clear, *again*...
> There were no post trip issues


Have you and I discussed this before? I was referring to your own statement



Michael - Cleveland said:


> <sigh> Hoping it doesn't become an after-the-fact issue...


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberXtraordinary said:


> Have you and I discussed this before? I was referring to your own statement


Yeah... and here it is a couple of weeks later and still no problems from the pax or Uber.
So from a practical perspective that's (thankfully) kind of the end of the story from my end.

For the purpose of "What would you do if...?", this has been a great thread (trolls excepted).


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