# Naysayer Reality Check: Waymo's Self-Driving Taxi Debuts In Phoenix, For Free



## newubernoob007 (Dec 5, 2016)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...-waymos-self-driving-taxi-debuts-phoenix-free


----------



## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

So...after reading the article....not really. In fact, nothing new at all.


----------



## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

I bet Johnny and Jimmy's Mommie and Daddy had to sign a TOS. I wonder if Mommie and Daddy read the Terms of Service (TOS).


----------



## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

same old thing. self driving until the driver has to take over (and in an area with wide roads and great weather. Come up to the northwest and test up here). 


the future is now! /rolls eyes


----------



## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

heynow321 said:


> same old thing. self driving until the driver has to take over (and in an area with wide roads and great weather. Come up to the northwest and test up here).
> 
> the future is now! /rolls eyes


"Self Driving Car" with one Driver. American Corporate Journalism? Aka, fake news.


----------



## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

I cant wait till were not needed. No more driveing, no more free speach, no more guns, no more anything.

Can we just get the mass together and over throw the elites as they control everything. Its all within the past 100 years that we have been indoctinated to do it their way and if not you are jailed or fined. 

I cant fish unless i have a license. All you do is pay them to fish no educations classes at all its rediclous! Same with driveing. You do some education but it seems its not good enough as noone knows how to drive. Theres no money into education just technoligy to govern us.

Keep our ability to travel cuz soon noone will travel and be homeless. AI is bad! Really seriously now we questioning the most baseic knowledge of mankind more these days as this question is popping up everywhere more and more: "Is the world flat"


----------



## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Jermin8r89 said:


> I cant wait till were not needed. No more driveing, no more free speach, no more guns, no more anything.
> 
> Can we just get the mass together and over throw the elites as they control everything. Its all within the past 100 years that we have been indoctinated to do it their way and if not you are jailed or fined.
> 
> ...


Don't Worry! You'll get your wish soon enough.  Once we're not needed and herded into unemployed housing districts then an unlimited supply of guns will be given out for FREE! You will not need any training, a license, be "mentally stable", pass a background check, have a waiting period, an age restriction, or anything else. Then we'll be allowed to kill each other off, thus reducing the "burden" we place on society.


----------



## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

Maven said:


> Don't Worry! You'll get your wish soon enough.  Once we're not needed and herded into unemployed housing districts then an unlimited supply of guns will be given out for FREE! You will not need any training, a license, be "mentally stable", pass a background check, have a waiting period, an age restriction, or anything else. Then we'll be allowed to kill each other off, thus reducing the "burden" we place on society.


Thatd be insane! Itd be like the movie 300. THIS IS SPARTAAAAAA!...


----------



## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Jermin8r89 said:


> Thatd be insane! Itd be like the movie 300. THIS IS SPARTAAAAAA!...


Just curious, but why believe you're one of the 300 Spartans and not one of the Persians that were slaughtered? Since there were over 300,000 Persians, you'd have less than 0.1% chance, assuming simple random distribution.  And in the end, all 300 Spartans were slaughtered too.


----------



## WeirdBob (Jan 2, 2016)

Jermin8r89 said:


> I cant fish unless i have a license.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Call me when there are no test driver's in these vehicles and they are not restricted

to where they can go.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Waymo and lyft...anyone not see this coming?

Horrible names but hey, gotta unite to beat Uber *shakes fists*

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/14/technology/lyft-waymo-self-driving-cars.html


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Waymo and lyft...anyone not see this coming?
> 
> Horrible names but hey, gotta unite to beat Uber *shakes fists*
> 
> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/14/technology/lyft-waymo-self-driving-cars.html


Let's see how well they do in the real world of the marketplace. Personally, I would never ride in one.


----------



## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

Maven said:


> Just curious, but why believe you're one of the 300 Spartans and not one of the Persians that were slaughtered? Since there were over 300,000 Persians, you'd have less than 0.1% chance, assuming simple random distribution.  And in the end, all 300 Spartans were slaughtered too.


Bear in mind that it wasn't just 300 Spartans except in the movie. In real life there were an awful lot of free Greeks there with the 300 Spartans


----------



## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

garyk said:


> Bear in mind that it wasn't just 300 Spartans except in the movie. In real life there were an awful lot of free Greeks there with the 300 Spartans


What! A Hollywood movie was not 1000% factual?! I am shocked, Shocked, SHOCKED!


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

heynow321 said:


> same old thing. self driving until the driver has to take over (and in an area with wide roads and great weather. Come up to the northwest and test up here).
> 
> the future is now! /rolls eyes


Did you really think they weren't testing in the North West?

In 2015, the Waymo cars didn't have to be taken over for 7 months straight. Do you wonder where they are now?



Oscar Levant said:


> Call me when there are no test driver's in these vehicles


May 2016 is calling and says that's when they launched in live service with no driver.



Oscar Levant said:


> and they are not restricted
> 
> to where they can go.


They also want you to know that "not restricted to where they can go" means next to nothing. They will come for the metropolitan areas which are 90% of our market. Who really cares if they can go up a gravel road to Bubba's Hideaway in rural Arkansas?

If you're worried about picking up and dropping off at Bubba's, that could be decade away. You're safe.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> Did you really think they weren't testing in the North West?
> 
> In 2015, the Waymo cars didn't have to be taken over for 7 months straight. Do you wonder where they are now?
> 
> May 2016 is calling and says that's when they launched in live service with no driver.


Is this what you are referring to? They aren't "live" and they do have a driver. By "live" I mean no driver and paid rides.

Each car has $150,000 worth of extra equipment. This will probably go down, but still, you got a $20,000 car, plus expensive gear, multiply times 400,000 cars worldwide, warehouses, technicians, garage mechanics, and the expenses go way way way way up and up and up for Uber.

Good luck on making these rides cheaper, and if they aren't cheaper, what is the point?

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/04/waymo-trials-free-self-driving-taxi-service-in-phoenix/


----------



## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> Call me when there are no test driver's in these vehicles and they are not restricted
> 
> to where they can go.


Phones will be obsolete by then


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> Is this what you are referring to? They aren't "live" and they do have a driver. By "live" I mean no driver and paid rides.
> 
> Each car has $150,000 worth of extra equipment. This will probably go down, but still, you got a $20,000 car, plus expensive gear, multiply times 400,000 cars worldwide, warehouses, technicians, garage mechanics, and the expenses go way way way way up and up and up for Uber.
> 
> ...


No, I'm referring to the wepods that went in live service May 2016 in the Netherlands and are now operating on live roads in CA with no driver. I don't know why people keep predicting when self driving will come, it's already here and has been for some time.

Your cost numbers are way out of date. The Lidar that cost $75,000 originally has advanced to solid state and costs in the hundreds. Manufacturers expect them to go under $100 soon. Other costs were from R&D as Google developed their own hardware and they were produced one by one. Actual production costs will be a fraction of that.

Expenses don't go up when you're using employee technicians, they go down. Individual costs are way higher than fleet management. Add in that they will be electric and the costs plummet even more.

The ride costs will absolutely be cheaper. They're taking 75%-80% right off the top.


----------



## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Hey ramz, are those wepods traveling on highways and city streets and through construction zones in any kind of weather imaginable? Oh what? They're not? Why is that?


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

heynow321 said:


> Hey ramz, are those wepods traveling on highways and city streets and through construction zones in any kind of weather imaginable? Oh what? They're not? Why is that?


Because they are the first of their kind. Did you think they wouldn't be limited at first?! The point is, they are SDCs in live service. That bridge was crossed over a year ago.

We don't drive in any weather imaginable and neither will SDCs.


----------



## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

My big question is what are they self-driving cars going to do when they can't find their passenger


----------



## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

garyk said:


> My big question is what are they self-driving cars going to do when they can't find their passenger


There are 2 possible answers:

Launch a heat/DNA seeking drone on a search and destroy locate mission.
Cancel, like a human driver.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> No, I'm referring to the wepods that went in live service May 2016 in the Netherlands and are now operating on live roads in CA with no driver. I don't know why people keep predicting when self driving will come, it's already here and has been for some time.
> 
> Your cost numbers are way out of date. The Lidar that cost $75,000 originally has advanced to solid state and costs in the hundreds. Manufacturers expect them to go under $100 soon. Other costs were from R&D as Google developed their own hardware and they were produced one by one. Actual production costs will be a fraction of that.
> 
> ...


In the Netherlands, the Wepod traverses a programmed route, it's a bus. Where are the rideshare cars live, without drivers, engineers, taking rides for pay, mixed in with the random world of humans driving on the roads, highways, in a big, complex, city, anywhere in a busy city the rider wants? So far, it's just a few places, in designated areas, with engineer and someone behind the wheel.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Flarpy said:


> Phones will be obsolete by then


No doubt to be replaced by wisecracking robots.


----------



## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Wow well if that's the case we've had a self driving train at seatac airport for decades!!


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> In the Netherlands, the Wepod traverses a programmed route, it's a bus. Where are the rideshare cars live, without drivers, engineers, taking rides for pay, mixed in with the random world of humans driving on the roads, highways, in a big, complex, city, anywhere in a busy city the rider wants? So far, it's just a few places, in designated areas, with engineer and someone behind the wheel.


You are missing the point. Self-driving vehicles are already on the road, carrying live passangers, and have been for over a year. And no, no one is behind the wheel. They self-drive. Period.

You assume because they are intentionally limited, they can't do much more. They can. They will. It's coming soon to a neighborhood near you.



heynow321 said:


> Wow well if that's the case we've had a self driving train at seatac airport for decades!!


Is there a driver? Remote controller?



garyk said:


> My big question is what are they self-driving cars going to do when they can't find their passenger


Text them, this is where I am.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> You are missing the point. Self-driving vehicles are already on the road, carrying live passangers, and have been for over a year. And no, no one is behind the wheel. They self-drive. Period.
> 
> You assume because they are intentionally limited, they can't do much more. They can. They will. It's coming soon to a neighborhood near you.


You say "they can". Okay, on what scale is "can"? and "they will" well, that's just a promise.

See, my gut feeling is that the distance between the WEpod and a fully operational Uber SDC is greater than you think. The WEpod, given that it's on a programmed route every nuance of which is in the car's databanks, is a far cry from what a fully operational UberSDC must face in every corner of the globe Uber operates, and one doesn't portend the other if you are suggesting that because of one, the other is right around the corner. That's not necessarily true. It might be 10 years in the future, it might be farther than that. It might not, but I'm not seeing evidence of anything that actually predicts how long it will take. Moreover, it just might be so far in the future than when it is half way there, they might discover anti-gravity making the whole thing moot, one never knows with technology.

You just sound like an over optimistic techie.

They have been saying this ( SDCs coming soon, etc ) for a couple of years now. Moreover, I'm not convinced that the fully operational UberSDC service is a viable concept. It might be, but it might not. It might be that the only way it would work is when all cars are SDC, all cars in a synchronized master system, where cars talk to roads, signs, lights, and each other, etc.
It's just too early to tell, at this juncture, in my opinion. If you have hard evidence that counters this, please provide it with something other than rosy predictions.


----------



## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

LOL a decade from now RamzFanz will still be trolling these forums saying that self-driving cars are "right around the corner."


----------



## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

To the guy who is saying that fully self-driving cars with no engineer and no one behind the wheel are carrying passengers please point me to a link that proves this


----------



## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

garyk said:


> To the guy who is saying that fully self-driving cars with no engineer and no one behind the wheel are carrying passengers please point me to a link that proves this


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> The WEpod, given that it's on a programmed route every nuance of which is in the car's databanks, is a far cry from what a fully operational UberSDC must face in every corner of the globe Uber operates, and one doesn't portend the other if you are suggesting that because of one, the other is right around the corner. That's not necessarily true. It might be 10 years in the future, it might be farther than that. It might not, but I'm not seeing evidence of anything that actually predicts how long it will take.


Waymo and others are mapping major metropolitan areas and have been for years. When they launch, they will also know every nuance.

They won't open in every corner of the globe. They will launch in geo-fenced major metropolitan areas. Uber isn't even in the running so focusing on them will mislead you.

You're linking the two subjects, not me. WePod is already operational so self-driving is already a fact. More independent SDCs are coming because they are, not because there are WePods. The vast majority of experts in the field say 1-3 years for live launch. Many think Waymo is already there but being cautious. If you're not seeing evidence, you're not looking for evidence.



Oscar Levant said:


> Moreover, it just might be so far in the future than when it is half way there, they might discover anti-gravity making the whole thing moot, one never knows with technology.


Half way? We already have self driving vehicles. If you go down the list of every major auto and tech company in the world, they're almost all involved and most say they will launch before 2021. This is probably the biggest single undertaking by corporations ever.



Oscar Levant said:


> You just sound like an over optimistic techie.


Could be. We will see. For now, I'm going with the experts.



Oscar Levant said:


> They have been saying this ( SDCs coming soon, etc ) for a couple of years now.


Most of the corporations and experts involved have been saying 2018-2021 as long as they have been making predictions. I'm not sure who your "they" are, but I certainly wouldn't have believed them.



Oscar Levant said:


> Moreover, I'm not convinced that the fully operational UberSDC service is a viable concept. It might be, but it might not. It might be that the only way it would work is when all cars are SDC, all cars in a synchronized master system, where cars talk to roads, signs, lights, and each other, etc.


The SDCs being tested and predicted to launch in the next 1-4 years don't need a central control system or any infrastructure changes. I don't know why you would think they do.



Oscar Levant said:


> It's just too early to tell, at this juncture, in my opinion. If you have hard evidence that counters this, please provide it with something other than rosy predictions.


What would you like to know? Perhaps you should study the subject further and provide hard evidence that supports your pessimistic point of view?

My evidence is in the facts. The timeline of benchmark accomplishments has been accelerating for years, not slowing. Waymo went 7 months without a driver needing to take over in 2015! All that year they only had 13 necessary takeovers. That was millions of testing miles ago.



garyk said:


> To the guy who is saying that fully self-driving cars with no engineer and no one behind the wheel are carrying passengers please point me to a link that proves this


Look up WePod and Easymile or read my blog (click the B next to my name). They have been in live operation in the Netherlands since May 2016 and are now live in CA. No driver, no human controls, public roads, and actual public passangers.



Flarpy said:


> LOL a decade from now RamzFanz will still be trolling these forums saying that self-driving cars are "right around the corner."


I won't be Ubering or visiting Uber driver forums a decade from now, nor will you.


----------

