# Honest opinion:



## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

This is a request for ride I handled last night.
Details: 
Request was from 1.5 miles away and 4 minutes onto the Texas [email protected] campus. GPS directed me down Coke St. and then onto Spencer St where the pin was located. Arrive at the pin and 2 minute timer starts. After 2 minutes I text the rider "I have arrived". Rider replies back "I'm outside". I reply back "On Spencer St?" Him "No on Coke St". Me "I'm heading that way". Find the rider, he gets in, I apologize that Uber misdirected me and he says no big deal and the trip proceeds.

Stats:
Base $.75
Distance $3.54
Time $1.55
Wait time $.95
Total $6.46

Total time from ping to completion of trip: 25.02 minutes.

Expenses:
Maybe 1/10th gallon of gas (Prius), currently $1.95/gallon = $.195.
Depreciation = $0 ( Prius is an 07' with 172K miles).

How would you have handled this trip? If you'd have done it differently please give details.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Waited at actual pickup location
Collect cancel fee


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> This is a request for ride I handled last night.
> Details:
> Request was from 1.5 miles away and 4 minutes onto the Texas [email protected] campus. GPS directed me down Coke St. and then onto Spencer St where the pin was located. Arrive at the pin and 2 minute timer starts. After 2 minutes I text the rider "I have arrived". Rider replies back "I'm outside". I reply back "On Spencer St?" Him "No on Coke St". Me "I'm heading that way". Find the rider, he gets in, I apologize that Uber misdirected me and he says no big deal and the trip proceeds.
> 
> ...


First of all your expenses are shallow.
Insurance? Tires? Future maintenance? Oil changes?

How many miles was the trip?
Take that mileage number and times it by .45 cents. (Deduct that number from your gross) = your net earning
U can go as high as 54 cents a mile( per IRS for ur tax returns) but u have a cost efficient vehicle and we're calculating real expenses vrs. Ur Future tax deductions.

Bottom line, you're earning below minimum wage

WAITING to cancel trip, collecting cancel fee and never doing the trip nor incurred expenses
would of made u more money than taking the passenger.

There are other factors too. Location and typical number of requests u receive nightly.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> Waited at actual pickup location
> Collect cancel fee


Yes I considered that. Since my MO is customer service I rejected that thought.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Yes I considered that. Since my MO is customer service I rejected that thought.


If you want to give yourself pay cuts for the good of the community, that's on you... good luck anting


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Yes I considered that. Since my MO is customer service I rejected that thought.


I hear you.
Just don't make uber a career


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Yes I considered that. Since my MO is customer service I rejected that thought.


This is why you have money losers like this trip. You're not Uber's customer service. They have an entire business unit devoted to customer service and you're not a customer service rep.

You are providing a service to Uber's customer, but your MO needs to be maximizing profit. You're a IC who is providing service to a broker for a fee. Let the Uber professionals handle the customer service.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Expenses:
> Maybe 1/10th gallon of gas (Prius), currently $1.95/gallon = $.195.
> Depreciation = $0 ( Prius is an 07' with 172K miles).


INCORRECT! Your vehicle may not be losing much in terms of resale value but you are wearing out your tires, motor, transmission, crudding up your oil, etc. Keep this up and your car will be undriveable in short order. Your car will last only a finite number of miles before you have to pour money into it to keep it driving or buy a replacement car. The cost of gas is less significant than that cost in a Prius. Depreciation isn't truly zero. The cheapest Uber qualified Prius I've seen was around $8500. Between 173K and 174K miles value may not change but eventually your car will be worth $0. Factor in the cost of needing to buy a new vehicle when your old one is finished (the cost of doing business since you need a car to drive for Uber), and you're probably looking at 4-5 cents per mile in car replacement cost alone, not to mention maintenance you will be doing before your car dies, which is probably at least another 2-3 cents per mile.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> How many miles was the trip?
> Take that mileage number and times it by .45 cents. (Deduct that number from your gross) = your net earning
> U can go as high as 54 cents a mile but u have a cost efficient vehicle.


It was 3.54 miles. That times .45 = $1.593. So $6.46 - $1.59 = net $4.87? What about the 1.5 miles to pick up?



dctcmn said:


> and you're not a customer service rep.


Agreed about not being a rep. But I am the person that the customer comes into direct contact with.



dctcmn said:


> but your MO needs to be maximizing profi


My MO is both maximizing profit and customer service.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

Cancellation fees are the most effective way to make money in the current marketplace.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

1.5xorbust said:


> Cancellation fees are the most effective way to make money in the current marketplace.


Shhhh
You can't have good customer service skills without taking a few hits for the community


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## Bear1976 (Nov 27, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> It was 3.54 miles. That times .45 = $1.593. So $6.46 - $1.59 = net $4.87? What about the 1.5 miles to pick up?
> 
> Agreed about not being a rep. But I am the person that the customer comes into direct contact with.
> 
> My MO is both maximizing profit and customer service.


You don't get paid jack for a pick up unless it's long distance and even then it's jack. Riders do not care about customer service. If they give the wrong location, F them. If they expect you to pick them up at a different location other than the one they gave, F them. Basically they should be thankful for the cheap ride they are paying for.

I used to try and bend over backwards for the riders until I realized that most act like the most self entitled idiots who don't deserve jack shit. The ones that are nice, I'll provide exceptional customer service for. Other than that, the sooner you can get the trash out of your car, the better, lol


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

Juggalo9er said:


> Shhhh
> You can't have good customer service skills without taking a few hits for the community


I think I've taken enough hits for the community. No more mister nice guy.


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Agreed about not being a rep. But I am the person that the customer comes into direct contact with.


Yes, because you are a service provider. Your interactions with the passenger should always, 100% of the time, be in service to YOU-- not the customer. Sure, be nice and friendly, but only as long as it improves your chances for tips. The second being nice and friendly takes dollars out of your pocket, stop being nice and friendly.



BCS DRIVER said:


> My MO is both maximizing profit and customer service.


You can't always have both. When the two are in conflict, choose profit. You started a thread asking how you should handle the ride differently and I'm answering--

The root cause of your problem is that you are misunderstanding your role and providing extra services that are not covered in your service contract with Uber for free (actually worse than free-- you're paying money out of your own pocket to provide extra services to a multi- billion dollar company. Uber is not a charity. Passengers are not a charity.).

Until you fix the root cause, you're going to have the same problems over and over again.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> Factor in the cost of needing to buy a new vehicle when your old one is finished (the cost of doing business since you need a car to drive for Uber), and you're probably looking at 4-5 cents per mile in car replacement cost alone, not to mention maintenance you will be doing before your car dies, which is probably at least another 2-3 cents per mile.


OK I get that. Factoring in your numbers of $.05 replacement + $.03 maintenance onto: "It was 3.54 miles. That times .45 = $1.593. So $6.46 - $1.59 = net $4.87" is ($.08) * (3.54) = $.28 results in $4.87 - $.28 = $4.59 net?



dctcmn said:


> Yes, because you are a service provider. Your interactions with the passenger should always, 100% of the time, be in service to YOU-- not the customer. Sure, be nice and friendly, but only as long as it improves your chances for tips. The second being nice and friendly takes dollars out of your pocket, stop being nice and friendly.


So are you saying I should have cancelled to collect the fee? What about the "being nice" and not only providing the service requested but also the possibility of a tip? Cancellations result in no chance of a tip.


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> So are you saying I should have cancelled to collect the fee? What about the "being nice" and not only providing the service requested but also the possibility of a tip? Cancellations result in no chance of a tip.


You are in a volume business (fast nickels, not slow dimes) and in a volume business you need to play the numbers. This is how I would have thought about it:

1. The profile of a passenger from a college campus decreases the chances of getting tipped.
2. The fact that the pickup didn't go smoothly decreases the chances of getting tipped.

Those two factors alone would tip the scales to me deciding that shuffling the ride would be more profitable than fulfilling the ride and trying to work the passenger for a tip during the ride.

Also, I want to be clear-- being nice by itself won't get you tips, but being mean will disqualify you from the possibility of getting a tip. You have to also work (read: manipulate) the passenger to maximize your chances of getting tipped. You also need to have a holistic approach that starts with profiling the pickup location and rating of the passenger and passing on pings that aren't likely to tip-- this includes college campuses.

You didn't note any tip revenue from this trip in your original post. So did this passenger tip you?


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

I can not feel sorry for a passenger that confirms a pickup to anything but their current and correct address (unless possible apartment or trailer park locations but they better be outside looking for me). It has always amazed at all the idiots sending us to the wrong address but then acting put out and offended that we magically do not know their actual location.

Rider "Where are you? I'm outside."
Me "I'm at the confirmed location you requested pick up." 

Depending on their response from that point, and my next question of "where are you heading to today?" Dictates my next response.

The fact we make more off of a no show than a actual trip is the route cause of a ton of frustration for both pax and drivers.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

The consensus so far seems to be I should have cancelled and moved on. It did indeed turn out to be a short trip with no tip. But it could have turned into a 10 mile trip with a nice tip. You never know if it don't do it.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> The consensus so far seems to be I should have cancelled and moved on. It did indeed turn out to be a short trip with no tip. But it could have turned into a 10 mile trip with a nice tip. You never know if it don't do it.


Coulda, woulda, shoulda. You know with 100% certainty that you can receive a cancellation fee. Okay since it's Uber 99%.


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## Bear1976 (Nov 27, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> OK I get that. Factoring in your numbers of $.05 replacement + $.03 maintenance onto: "It was 3.54 miles. That times .45 = $1.593. So $6.46 - $1.59 = net $4.87" is ($.08) * (3.54) = $.28 results in $4.87 - $.28 = $4.59 net?
> 
> So are you saying I should have cancelled to collect the fee? What about the "being nice" and not only providing the service requested but also the possibility of a tip? Cancellations result in no chance of a tip.





MoreTips said:


> I can not feel sorry for a passenger that confirms a pickup to anything but their current and correct address (unless possible apartment or trailer park locations but they better be outside looking for me). It has always amazed at all the idiots sending us to the wrong address but then acting put out and offended that we magically do not know their actual location.
> 
> Rider "Where are you? I'm outside."
> Me "I'm at the confirmed location you requested pick up."
> ...


I had a request last night in front of the Cheesecake Factory and I asked the guy 2 times if he ordered Uber, the second time he said yes and just stood there. I gave him 10 seconds and then cancelled the ride in front of him and went home. I don't have the patients for people anymore. Maybe it's because it's the Northeast, I don't know, lol


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> Waited at actual pickup location
> Collect cancel fee


I often wonder about people who would sit, knowing that the rider is ready and waiting a half block away, and make no effort to pick them up.

I can only assume these folks had shitty parents.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Coachman said:


> I often wonder about people who would sit, knowing that the rider is ready and waiting a half block away, and make no effort to pick them up.
> 
> I can only assume these folks had shitty parents.


I completely judge it by the attitude of the passenger. I will talk to the passenger over the phone. If they are apologetic I will pick them up. The slightest hint of disapproval and I'll cancel on them. Picking up riders who put in the wrong address will lead to 1 star ratings. I'm not taking a hit to my rating to pick up someone who is incompetent to use their phone and blames me for it.


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## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

...I have a responsibility to go to a pick up location once I accept a pax' request.
I go to said spot.
Pax has a responsibility to be outside waiting at said spot (ON-DEMAND SERVICE). If they aren't, I've still done my job, and I am good on receiving compensation without any moral hang-ups.
I'm NOT contracted to the Pax, Uber is. 

So, I will drive to location, wait my five minutes, and cancel, as I've upheld my end of the obligation as a 3rd party contractor.

You did ask for honest opinions. We're just giving them to you.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

I can't say with any certainty that the rider in this case put their location in incorrectly or it was Uber's technology that did it. From other instances of this happening, and the pax's comments once I find them, I lean heavily on it being Uber's fault.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

merryon2nd said:


> You did ask for honest opinions. We're just giving them to you


And I do greatly appreciate those honest opinions 



Coachman said:


> I often wonder about people who would sit, knowing that the rider is ready and waiting a half block away, and make no effort to pick them up.
> 
> I can only assume these folks had shitty parents.


Absolutely agree.

There's financial bankruptcy and moral bankruptcy. Which one are you referring to?


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> The consensus so far seems to be I should have cancelled and moved on. It did indeed turn out to be a short trip with no tip. But it could have turned into a 10 mile trip with a nice tip. You never know if it don't do it.


That's why you have to play the odds. I'm sure I've passed on some trips that could've netted me a lot of revenue and I've also taken trips that turned out to be revenue losers. I've passed on marginal pings and sat for the next 10 minutes. It happens.

The fundamentals of each specific ride is not the point. Maximizing the overall outcome over hundreds and thousands of rides is the point. Avoiding the strikeouts is almost as important as hitting the home run because the opportunity for strikeouts is much more prevalent than the opportunity for the home run in most markets.

Also, remember that your opportunity cost for this ride was 25 minutes. How many good rides and potential tips did you possibly miss out on during those wasted 25 minutes? At least one or two unless your market is complete garbage. The no-show fee *and* 25 available minutes for better pings was the real opportunity cost that you passed up.

I'm not piling on, but these are really important concepts to understand and I'm trying to give you my best advice. Cheers.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

dctcmn said:


> Also, remember that your opportunity cost for this ride was 25 minutes. How many good rides and potential tips did you possibly miss out on during those wasted 25 minutes? At least one or two unless your market is complete garbage. The no-show fee *and* 25 available minutes for better pings was the real opportunity cost that you passed up.


I totally agree with that statement. As I've stated in other posts this is a crap shoot at best.


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## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

BCS DRIVER said:


> And I do greatly appreciate those honest opinions


And we honestly appreciate that.  We're naturally snarky by nature. But we don't mean harm by it. Its just...us. lmao


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> And I do greatly appreciate those honest opinions
> 
> Absolutely agree.
> 
> There's financial bankruptcy and moral bankruptcy. Which one are you referring to?


Both..... come back in a year after accepting every request... tell me abit your morals then

If a pax is too dumb to drop the pin in the right locationthey deserve to be cancelled on


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

Juggalo9er said:


> If a pax is too dumb to drop the pin in the right locationthey deserve to be cancelled on


And if it was Uber's fault (as BCS DRIVER suspects), Uber should be the one to pay.

I refuse to pay for the passengers' mistakes, Uber's mistakes AND my mistakes.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

So $6 in 30 minutes
I’ve had rides like these too and I’ve also had rides that grossed $65 in an hour

My first ride of the day is usually a $25 airport ride that takes about 40 min

Do this enough and it tends to even out. At least that’s been my experience


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

BCS DRIVER said:


> So are you saying I should have cancelled to collect the fee? What about the "being nice" and not only providing the service requested but also the possibility of a tip? Cancellations result in no chance of a tip.


I look at those as "rider education fee" because I guaran-fornicating-tee after they pay that fee they'll be where they're supposed to be next time.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> Both..... come back in a year after accepting every request... tell me abit your morals then


Well here I am at 17 months of driving after accepting, and completing, around 99.9% of every ping and my morals are exactly where they were when I started. *High.* And the money in that bank account is not too shabby either.



oldfart said:


> Do this enough and it tends to even out. At least that's been my experience


Exactly!



New2This said:


> I look at those as "rider education fee" because I guaran-fornicating-tee after they pay that fee they'll be where they're supposed to be next time.


Even if it's Uber's mistake? Had one a while back where the pin was in a pasture with no buildings anywhere in sight. Called the pax and they were about 4 miles away. They didn't want to wait so I did a cancel no charge.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Even if it's Uber's mistake? Had one a while back where the pin was in a pasture with no buildings anywhere in sight. Called the pax and they were about 4 miles away. They didn't want to wait so I did a cancel no charge.


Yes. If it's Uber's fault they'll refund the rider the $5.

I don't work for free and neither should you. If you went to the middle of a pasture you should've been compensated.

I do give good customer service (currently 4.95 on both Uber/Lyft) but I also maximize my profits.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

New2This said:


> Yes. If it's Uber's fault they'll refund the rider the $5.


I didn't know this. I should have done a cancel and used app/navigation error and would have received the cancel fee? Would the rider automatically receive a credit back or it never would have been charged to them in the first place?


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Well here I am at 17 months of driving after accepting, and completing, around 99.9% of every ping and my morals are exactly where they were when I started. *High.* And the money in that bank account is not too shabby either.
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> Even if it's Uber's mistake? Had one a while back where the pin was in a pasture with no buildings anywhere in sight. Called the pax and they were about 4 miles away. They didn't want to wait so I did a cancel no charge.


You're either handicapped at math or simply do uber for the tax deduction.....

My morals are in profit
If I am on a 2.2x and a 300% comes in, i'm canceling the 2.2... any company that's been in business long turns down unprofitable work.... that is businesses with common sense, which you seem to lack


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

BCS DRIVER said:


> This is a request for ride I handled last night.
> Details:
> Request was from 1.5 miles away and 4 minutes onto the Texas [email protected] campus. GPS directed me down Coke St. and then onto Spencer St where the pin was located. Arrive at the pin and 2 minute timer starts. After 2 minutes I text the rider "I have arrived". Rider replies back "I'm outside". I reply back "On Spencer St?" Him "No on Coke St". Me "I'm heading that way". Find the rider, he gets in, I apologize that Uber misdirected me and he says no big deal and the trip proceeds.
> 
> ...


I would have handled it exactly the same way you did. In fact, the same thing happened to me yesterday and I *did* handle it exactly the same way.

Sometimes there are minor GPS errors, sometimes riders order and then move...life happens. It goes with the territory. But what also happened to me yesterday was three rides with drives to pickup of less than 100 yards -- and one of those was a $27 payout.

Driving is not about one particular ride -- whether it's incredibly annoying, or incredibly amazing. It's about the overall pros and cons of the business and whether the overall result works for you or not.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

BCS DRIVER said:


> I didn't know this. I should have done a cancel and used app/navigation error and would have received the cancel fee? Would the rider automatically receive a credit back or it never would have been charged to them in the first place?


For EVERY cancel I just let the timer expire then 'rider not here' to make sure I get paid. I have had to go back and forth with Rohit too many times for unaccompanied minors or too many people.

If this happens again, while you're sitting at the pin with the timer going, when they're done telling you where they are, slip this phrase in: "Great. Got it. Where are you guys headed to?" The answer will tell you whether you go pick them up or just watch the counter hit 5:00 and collect the cancel fee.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

New2This said:


> For EVERY cancel I just let the timer expire then 'rider not here' to make sure I get paid. I have had to go back and forth with Rohit too many times for unaccompanied minors or too many people.
> 
> If this happens again, while you're sitting at the pin with the timer going, when they're done telling you where they are, slip this phrase in: "Great. Got it. Where are you guys headed to?" The answer will tell you whether you go pick them up or just watch the counter hit 5:00 and collect the cancel fee.


That's against my morals rofl


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> You're either handicapped at math or simply do uber for the tax deduction.....


I'll admit math is not my strong suite but having attended and graduated a 2 year electronics technical school ( Hint: electronics is math heavy) I don't consider myself handicapped in that sense. And the tax deduction, while nice, is not the reason why I do it.



Juggalo9er said:


> any company that's been in business long turns down unprofitable work....


Allow me to reword that. "Any company that turns down work that's already been accepted wont stay in business long".


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> That's against my morals rofl


What are morals when Ubering?


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

Juggalo9er said:


> That's against my morals rofl


Didn't you know that people use Uber because of Uber's high moral standing in the community?


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

New2This said:


> What are morals when Ubering?


I refunded two riders today.... simply because they go to college and work....I mean who works anymore



dctcmn said:


> Didn't you know that people use Uber because of Uber's high moral standing in the community?


I had someone puke their "morals" up a few weeks ago... they disputed the cleaning fee... imagine that


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## janewalch (Jan 8, 2016)

Honesty, I would have done it the same way you did. You can not drive Uber and also try and “make it worth it,” Trying to compute all of the costs per ride will cause more stress than the 2 minutes of frustration following a bad ride. I pick up pax like this ALL THE TIME. as others mentioned, you can always just chill there until the counter runs out and charge. You just have to take the good with the bad. You will make less than minimum some days and more on other days. Do not let single rides impact you that much. I drive 6 days a week, 20-35 rides a day. I take rides that would not be considered worth it and I also have rides that end up equating to $75 an hour. This is Uber after all, at this point we all know what we’re taking on here. I think you did the right thing. Keep on trucking.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> The consensus so far seems to be I should have cancelled and moved on. It did indeed turn out to be a short trip with no tip. But it could have turned into a 10 mile trip with a nice tip. You never know if it don't do it.


Do what's right for U.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> Do what's right for U.


I do. Thanks.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

New2This said:


> What are morals when Ubering?


I was visiting DC. Had an issue that required me to go to GW emergency.

I'm released at 1am.
Call uber to get back to hotel in Mclean.
Deaf Driver Kirk with his Nissan starts shuffling me.

I text him: "dude are u shuffling me?"
Kirk txts back a thumbs-up emoji.

Next request went to Lyft with no issues.

I disputed driver kirk's no show fee. Showing uber Corp the screen shot of kirk's thumbs up to my shuffle question. Uber, refunded me plus 5 free rides.

He shuffled someone coming out of the hospital emergency at 1am. could of been a nurse off shift, doc going home, or patient . Morals?


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> I was visiting DC. Had an issue that required me to go to GW emergency.
> 
> I'm released at 1am.
> Call uber to get back to hotel in Mclean.
> ...


Sorry that happened to you. Shuffling is going up as it's the only way drivers can take back what Uber's screwing drivers out of.

Welcome to the world of driving for $0.81/mile $0.60/mile


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> He shuffled someone coming out of the hospital emergency at 1am. could of been a nurse off shift, doc going home, or patient . Morals?


You're conflating a few different things.

A true shuffle is the driver acting in bad faith (hiding from a pax that's ready to go in the correct location).

Pax dropping the pin the in wrong place or Uber's software malfunctioning or pax abusing the driver's time (waddling out at 4:45) and the driver refusing to provide extra- contractual labor for free to remedy the situation is not shuffling.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

dctcmn said:


> A true shuffle is the driver acting in bad faith (hiding from a pax that's ready to go in the correct location).





UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> I disputed driver kirk's no show fee.


Driver Kirk did in fact get close enough to this rider to start the wait clock and once 5 minutes was reached cancelled as a no show. A"true shuffle" or not?



BCS DRIVER said:


> Driver Kirk did in fact get close enough to this rider to start the wait clock and once 5 minutes was reached cancelled as a no show. A"true shuffle" or not?


If yes it was a true shuffle was it good business ethics?



dctcmn said:


> Pax dropping the pin the in wrong place or Uber's software malfunctioning or pax abusing the driver's time (waddling out at 4:45) and the driver refusing to provide extra- contractual labor for free to remedy the situation is not shuffling.


What is this "extra- contractual labor for free" you're referring to?


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Driver Kirk did in fact get close enough to this rider to start the wait clock and once 5 minutes was reached cancelled as a no show. A"true shuffle" or not?


Yes. That's a true shuffle (and something I don't do or advocate that other drivers do). The situation you laid out in your original post was due either to the passenger's error or Uber's error.

IMO, I have no obligation to fix that error-- just like it would not be Uber's or the passenger's obligation to compensate me for taking a wrong turn in getting to the pax.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Driver Kirk did in fact get close enough to this rider to start the wait clock and once 5 minutes was reached cancelled as a no show. A"true shuffle" or not?


Lady, dctcmn , I was an U/L driver for 4 years. Don't try to double talk me

I asked Kirk if he was shuffling me, he responded with a thumbs up.
Uber accepted that as a fraud perpetrated by their non employee
and coughed up the refund + free rides.

At 1am on a weekday around GW it was desolate.
I had visuals on Kirk go up one street and down another.
I was the only soul on the street.
I was the only soul waving his arms.

I saved kirks uber image and tag #, even if kirk has been deactivated for numerous issues, one day, when Kirk least expects it, we will meet.
:blackalien:He won't know me, but I'll know him:blackalien:


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

New2This said:


> Shuffling is going up as it's the only way drivers can take back what Uber's screwing drivers out of.


No one can take advantage of you or screw you out of anything without your permission. Why are you giving anyone, including Uber, that permission?


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Seems like a very typical campus ride to me. If you don’t like that type of ride stay clear of campus.

Factoring in gas, oil, tires, depreciation etc. on a $4 ride is lame AF. Lose on some gain on others. Just focus on getting the bills paid J Paul Getty!


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

dctcmn said:


> Yes. That's a true shuffle (and something I don't do or advocate that other drivers do). The situation you laid out in your original post was due either to the passenger's error or Uber's error.


Sorry. Thought your post was in response to 
*UberLyftFlexWhatever*'s experience.



kc ub'ing! said:


> Seems like a very typical campus ride to me. If you don't like that type of ride stay clear of campus.
> 
> Factoring in gas, oil, tires, depreciation etc. on a $4 ride is lame AF. Lose on some gain on others. Just focus on getting the bills paid J Paul Getty!


Totally agree. Unfortunately with a metro area of around 180K and 60K + being college students they're not only typical but common.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> No one can take advantage of you or screw you out of anything without your permission. Why are you giving anyone, including Uber, that permission?


Because today's uber Drivers claim they're Powerless Victims.
Or that's what they'd have u believe.
Unable to take responsibility for their decisions

It's everyone else's fault they're low skill low wage


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> What is this "extra- contractual labor for free" you're referring to?


My obligations are clearly spelled out in the TOS and Community Guidelines. Those are the contracts that define my relationship with Uber. There is no language in either of those documents that says I'm obligated drive anywhere other than the pin to make the pickup.

If I do more than that, it's solely at my discretion.


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> This is a request for ride I handled last night.
> Details:
> Request was from 1.5 miles away and 4 minutes onto the Texas [email protected] campus. GPS directed me down Coke St. and then onto Spencer St where the pin was located. Arrive at the pin and 2 minute timer starts. After 2 minutes I text the rider "I have arrived". Rider replies back "I'm outside". I reply back "On Spencer St?" Him "No on Coke St". Me "I'm heading that way". Find the rider, he gets in, I apologize that Uber misdirected me and he says no big deal and the trip proceeds.
> 
> ...


No-brainer. Cxl ride & move on.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

dctcmn said:


> My obligations are clearly spelled out in the TOS and Community Guidelines. Those are the contracts that define my relationship with Uber. There is no language in either of those documents that says I'm obligated drive anywhere other than the pin to make the pickup.
> 
> If I do more than that, it's solely at my discretion.


I have to agree with that.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Driver Kirk did in fact get close enough to this rider to start the wait clock and once 5 minutes was reached cancelled as a no show. A"true shuffle" or not?


Close enough to start the wait clock is what? Three football fields?
That's a true shuffle. I prefer to call it a 'scamshaft'.



UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> Lady, dctcmn , I was an U/L driver for 4 years. Don't try to double talk me
> 
> I asked Kirk if he was shuffling me, he responded with a thumbs up.
> Uber accepted that as a fraud perpetrated by their non employee
> ...


I hope you key the heck out of his car.


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> Lady, dctcmn , I was an U/L driver for 4 years. Don't try to double talk me


I'm not double talking you. What happened to you was different than what happened to the OP. That's just fact.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

Caturria said:


> Close enough to start the wait clock is what? Three football fields?
> That's a true shuffle. I prefer to call it a 'scamshaft'.
> 
> I hope you key the heck out of his car.


No keying. I'm a car guy. Would never attack another's baby.

"*scamshaft", instead of shuffle". I like that, Has a certain **je ne sais quoi. *

*I'll alert the DC Senior Scamshaft Advocate *
New2This


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> No keying. I'm a car guy. Would never attack another's baby.
> 
> "*scamshaft", instead of shuffle". I like that, Has a certain je ne sais quoi. *
> 
> ...


Yeah.
I'll admit I'm not a driver, in fact I'm a guy who uses specialized transportation for people with disabilities.
Those drivers shuffle us all the time. Hide across the street, hide in the bathroom, in my case (being vision impaired) stand right behind me and say nothing until the timer runs out, in the case of wheelchair pax just refuse to put the ramp down until the five minute clock runs down, the list goes on and on.
I never thought the word 'shuffle' truly captured the intent behind what's being done. to me the word means to mix up or to place a collection of things (like a deck of cards) into no particular order.
So when I'd call to report the drivers I started saying 'I got shafted', and then 'got the shaft' and then it evolved into 'the scamshaft'. The service where I live is called Darts, so sometimes I would say I got the shaft of the dart or the dart shaft. Scamshaft is universal though.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

Paging Mr New2This DC ScamShafter Promoter.
This is from Caturria starting below ADA definition

Seems you ScamShafters of DC are actively against ADA (Americans with Disabilty Act)
The *Americans* with *Disabilities* Act (ADA) prohibits discrimination against people with *disabilities* in several areas, including employment, transportation, public accommodations, communications and access to state and local government' programs and services.

YET: uber Drivers are the victims (according to uber drivers)

Yeah.
I'll admit I'm not a driver, in fact I'm a guy who uses specialized transportation for people with disabilities.

Those drivers shuffle us all the time. Hide across the street, hide in the bathroom, in my case (being vision impaired) stand right behind me and say nothing until the timer runs out

I never thought the word 'shuffle' truly captured the intent behind what's being done. to me the word means to mix up or to place a collection of things (like a deck of cards) into no particular order.

So when I'd call to report the drivers I started saying 'I got shafted', and then 'got the shaft' and then it evolved into 'the scamshaft'. The service where I live is called Darts, so sometimes I would say I got the shaft of the dart or the dart shaft. Scamshaft is universal though.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

BCS DRIVER said:


> It was 3.54 miles. That times .45 = $1.593. So $6.46 - $1.59 = net $4.87? What about the 1.5 miles to pick up?
> 
> Agreed about not being a rep. *But I am the person that the customer comes into direct contact with. *
> 
> My MO is both maximizing profit and customer service.


*The App* is who the passenger is interacting with to request a ride. Drivers are not psychic. Passenger needs to check that the pin drop/address they are having us come to is accurate. If it is not, we lose money/time. This one was on passenger.

Only way passengers will change their MO is to have driver go to where App sends them, wait then Cancel. Passenger can take that cancelation up with Uber, who will nine times out of nine, credit the Cancel Fee back to passenger.



BCS DRIVER said:


> The consensus so far seems to be I should have cancelled and moved on. It did indeed turn out to be a short trip with no tip. But it could have turned into a 10 mile trip with a nice tip. You never know if it don't do it.


How about that 25 mile trip you might have missed playing _Finding Nemo _?


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> Paging Mr New2This DC ScamShafter Promoter.
> This is from Caturria starting below ADA definition
> 
> Seems you ScamShafters of DC are actively against ADA (Americans with Disabilty Act)
> ...


Actually, I've never had an Uber do this to me.
I don't use them often though.
I posted a thread here months ago asking if people would assist someone like me door to door in a hypothetical context, and many said they'd shaft me. I've taken maybe 20 Uber rides since then and have never encountered it.
The ones who do it around here are the ones paid by government agencies to provide transportation in government vehicles.
Especially if it's near the end of their shift, then they go crazy hard on the shaft as finishing their prescheduled rides means an early '10 19' (home free).


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> Paging Mr New2This DC ScamShafter Promoter.
> This is from Caturria starting below ADA definition
> 
> Seems you ScamShafters of DC are actively against ADA (Americans with Disabilty Act)
> ...


Pretty sure I know who you are. UberSolo welcome back buddy.

I've taken plenty of disabled/blind/deaf riders.

If I Shuffle I never see them so I don't know whether they're off the cover of Muscle and Fotness or Steven Hawking.


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

Caturria said:


> Actually, I've never had an Uber do this to me.


Paging Mr. UberLyftFlexWhatever

Or aren't we doing the "paging" thing anymore? lol.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> That's against my morals rofl


You can not have moral when dealing with an immoral company such as F*ub*a*r*



New2This said:


> What are morals when Ubering?


The only moral that I have is an increased bank account.



UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> I text him: "dude are u shuffling me?"
> Kirk txts back a thumbs-up emoji.


Kirk's classification is "DOLT". he deserves to be de-activated for _*STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPIDDDDDDDDDDDDDD*_.

Rule Number Four of the Shirlington Shuffle is that you never, but NEVER, but _*not ever*_ respond to communication from the passenger. If shuffling on Gr*yft*, you dial and hang up immediately.



New2This said:


> Sorry that happened to you. Shuffling is going up as it's the only way drivers can take back what Uber's screwing drivers out of.
> 
> Welcome to the world of driving for $0.81/mile $0.60/mile


You can not pay 2018 bills with 1979 income.



UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> I asked Kirk if he was shuffling me, he responded with a thumbs up.
> Uber accepted that as a fraud perpetrated by their non employee
> and coughed up the refund + free rides.
> 
> if kirk has been deactivated for numerous issues


........and well F*ub*a*r* should and well F*ub*a*r* SHOULD sack Ol' Kirk.



UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> today's uber Drivers they're low skill low wage


That kind of elitism makes it difficult to reason with anyone who is of the stripe.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

How does shuffling work out anyway? I mean, in the cases I was talking about the transit drivers strategize and take advantage of whatever affliction their passenger has. But in the case of an able bodied general public equipped with an app that pinpoints your exact location on a map along with vehicle description and license plate number, I don't understand how it's even possible to be clandestine enough to avoid being spotted in five minutes.
If I was an able bodied relatively healthy person I would think it'd be quite easy to run the 300 or so yards to where the driver is hiding out to confront them while taking video with my phone.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Caturria said:


> How does shuffling work out anyway? in the case of an able bodied general public equipped with an app that pinpoints your exact location on a map


Do not believe the _*Boston Globe*_, The Jippy Yess _*ain't no be-all end-all*_. It does not always show your exact location on the map.



> along with vehicle description and license plate number, I don't understand how it's even possible to be clandestine enough to avoid being spotted in five minutes.


You are giving half of these passengers FAR too much credit. Seriously, there are more than a few REAL Rocket Scientists who ride the Uber.



> If I was an able bodied relatively healthy person I *would think* it'd be quite easy to run the 300 or so yards to where the driver is hiding out to confront them


The operative words are in bold. Your use of the conditional makes it all the more so.

There is something inherently wrong with a transportation system (Uber and Lyft's protestations that they are "technology" companies notwithstanding) where it is more profitable NOT to haul a passenger than it is to haul one. Look at it in this way:

Scenario One:

Driver takes two minutes to cover a ping. Driver waits five minutes. Customer does not show. Driver cancels. Driver collects $4,00/$3,75. Total time invested: Seven minutes. Net funds colleted: $4,00/$3,75.

Scenario Two:

Driver takes two minutes to cover a ping. Customer shows up after four minutes. Driver hauls customer. Trip takes eight minutes. Trip is a minimum (easy in a big city or one of its suburbs). Driver collects $4,00/$3,75.
Total time invested: Fourteen minutes. Net funds collected: $4,00/$3,75.

For the same $4,00/$3,75, the driver can work fourteen minutes or work half that. Time IS money. Drivers are in business to make a profit. All other considerations are secondary (read Jack London's _*Wanted: A New Law of Development*_-That article is over one-hundred years old, but much of what it has to say still applies----.....and I am ANYTHING _*but*_ a Socialist). "Customer Service" may be lofty, noble, ______________________(fill in appropriate superlative), bit is is SECONDARY to turning a profit.

As long as Uber is going to be dishonest; as long as Uber is going to pay us 1979 rates and expect us to provide 2108 service; as long as Uber is going to keep cutting driver pay; I have no qualms about being dishonest, either. If Uber wants to do business honestly we can discuss a change. If it wants to collect the cost of doing business from the proper source, _*i.e.*_ the user, not the contractor, we can discuss drivers' being honest. Until that day comes, drivers must, and will, do what they must to turn a profit.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Scenario One:
> 
> Driver takes two minutes to cover a ping. Driver waits five minutes. Customer does not show. Driver cancels. Driver collects $4,00/$3,75. Total time invested: Seven minutes. Net funds colleted: $4,00/$3,75.


I get the math involved and all that. I'm just fascinated by the hole thing. How do you avoid being chased down and winding up with a *possibly violent* confrontation on your hands from a passenger who knows what you're trying to do?


Another Uber Driver said:


> For the same $4,00/$3,75, the driver can work fourteen minutes or work half that.


I have to respectfully disagree with your use of the word 'work' here. The former scenario is not working at all.


Another Uber Driver said:


> As long as Uber is going to be dishonest; as long as Uber is going to pay us 1979 rates and expect us to provide 2108 service; as long as Uber is going to keep cutting driver pay; I have no qualms about being dishonest, either. If Uber wants to do business honestly we can discuss a change. If it wants to collect the cost of doing business from the proper source, _*i.e.*_ the user, not the contractor, we can discuss drivers' being honest. Until that day comes, drivers must, and will, do what they must to turn a profit.


I'm asking this question out of utmost respect, even if this might be a tabu subject here but I'm genuinely curious. What keeps you doing it? I mean, I get that the companies are corrupt and exploitive, and it may very well be the case that you have to literally become a con artist in order to thrive at it. But what is it that makes this preferable to the pursuit of an alternative career that is both independently sustainable as well as at least somewhat satisfying?
Is the make your own schedule aspect of ride share so alluring that it makes everything else seem worthwhile, including the need to become what an outsider would regard as a con artist? I mean, the 7 minutes for $4.00 you describe is not even particularly lucrative as far as scams go. $32/hr at most, and that's if you could do nothing but shuffles all day and not get flagged?
Is it just that it's safe, in that it's a scam you probably won't face legal consequences for?
No disrespect, but I just can't imagine not wanting more for myself than to be someone who goes around stealing pocket change from innocent people all day long.
What am I missing?


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## aspacepig (Jul 17, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Yes I considered that. Since my MO is customer service I rejected that thought.


Let the app learn from its mistakes. That's customer service.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Are these within your morals


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> Are these within your morals
> View attachment 278010
> View attachment 278011
> View attachment 278010
> View attachment 278011


I like it but you're killing me with those straight line routes. You need to milk those PT with Longhauling.

The fastest route is not always the most direct route.






































We call that one route 'The Big Dipper" lol.

I'm gonna miss PT when Lyft implements their FUBAR version of Charlotte Surge.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

New2This said:


> I like it but you're killing me with those straight line routes. You need to milk those PT with Longhauling.
> 
> The fastest route is not always the most direct route.
> 
> ...


Pax were all leaving the game and ran gps....


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> Pax were all leaving the game and ran gps....


Learn the gift of gab. Talk to them so they aren't paying attention to the route.

Also "I just came that way. Construction/accident/dead horse on the highway. This way's faster" works like a charm.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

New2This said:


> Learn the gift of gab. Talk to them so they aren't paying attention to the route.
> 
> Also "I just came that way. Construction/accident/dead horse on the highway. This way's faster" works like a charm.


Believe me I tried


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Caturria said:


> How do you avoid being chased down and winding up with a *possibly violent* confrontation on your hands from a passenger who knows what you're trying to do?


Remember: I did state that you are giving these customers far too much credit. In addition, you are giving the Jippy Yess too much credit. Finally, you give the the TNC applications and their designers too much credit.

Let us stay with the customer. Half of these Rocket Scientists can not figure out how to get from inside the address to the kerb. These people are not going to chase after you. They can not figure out how to drop the stick or how to change the address that shows. On the rare occasion that the customer actually does chase after you, you tell him that this is where it sent you. He can get all crummy about it, and often will. In that case, you simply trade one-stars and be done with it.

Remember: not everyone is as hip as you are. I am hip to it, but I know this business. I know to look where the driver is and either chase after him or communicate with him. If he ignores me and shuffles me, I simply complain to F*ub*a*r*. Rohit sends me a canned, cookie cutter, templated e-Mail telling me how sorry he is that this happened and how he understands how frustrating it may be and he understands how it can be confusing. Said e-Mail further informs me that my cancellation fee will be refunded and, often, that I have a credit on my next F*ub*a*r* ride. I do not know if F*ub*a*r* takes it out of the driver's hide or not. I do not care, either. If they take it out of the driver's hide and he does not like it, it is on him to argue about with F*ub*a*r*.



> I have to respectfully disagree with your use of the word 'work' here. The former scenario is not working at all.


Call it "time invested", if you do not like "work". I can collect four dollars for fourteen minutes of my time or for seven minutes thereof. In this business, as it is in many, time IS money. I am here for the money, not for some lofty and noble but misguided notion of "public" or "customer" service.



> What am I missing?


The most successful thieves are the ones who steal a little bit from many as opposed to those who steal much from a few.

Other than that......................................................

If I could keep driving my cab and earn what I need, I would not bother with the TNCs. The money is better in hacking. In fact, before the TNCs, hacking was a middle class job. The TNCs are trying to make it a minimum wage job. Do keep in mind that a TNC driver _*ain't nothin' but no underpaid, underinsured, underinformed, cut rate tack-see driver*_. It used to be that those of us who actually knew what we were doing out here STILL could do fairly well even in the slow times. You simply had to adapt. This is just another adaptation. There are times when I leave the cab at home and drive the TNC car. This is because there is too much competition and too few customers for the cab, but there are more for the TNC car. When there are more customers for the cab, I drive it.

Had the TNCs not shown up and paid off the politicians to allow them to compete with me unfairly, I would not have to deal with them. The TNCs are here, though, and _*ain't goin' nowheres*_. Both F*ub*a*r* and Gr*yft* could collapse to-morrow and by the Tuesday after that first Tuesday, there would be six companies fighting to replace them. In fact, there would be two in the fray by Thursday.

This is why I do it. Despite that, I am not going to stand idly while the TNCs cheat. Churchill once asked the question about why he was expected to be the gentleman with all of its disadvantages while his enemies were allowed to be the scoundrels, with all of the advantages of that. The same applies here.

The TNCs will not understand that it costs money to deliver a service. In a capitalistic system, the customer pays those costs. The provider does not pay those costs. If he does, they call it "socialism". The financial bankruptcy (as well as other forms of bankruptcy) of socialism was proved conclusively in 1989 (of State Socialism, at the very least). Why do people still embrace it? The TNCs are afraid that if they charge the customer what he really should pay, the customers will not use the service. I do not know about other markets, but, in this one, they could charge $2,85 the mile (a cab does not cost that much) and forty cents the minute and people would STILL use the service. If they wanted to keep the bus riders, they could do something with POOL to make it better for the drivers.

BOTTOM LINE: I am in business to make a profit. If someone is going to put obstacles into my path to profitability, I must find whatever way necessary around said obstacles. Remove the obstacles, I can do business honestly. Until that day comes, I will turn a profit however I must.

A final thought: The only problem that you can solve by walking away from it is drug and alcohol addiction. If you can solve any other problem by walking away from it, I am not aware of it. At the very least, you will not solve the problem of the TNC/driver relationship by walking away from it.


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

BCS DRIVER said:


> The consensus so far seems to be I should have cancelled and moved on. It did indeed turn out to be a short trip with no tip. But it could have turned into a 10 mile trip with a nice tip. You never know if it don't do it.


Bryan/College Station is only 6 miles from 1 end to the other. Very little chance for a long trip (10 miles is long?) and with college kids the chance for a tip is even smaller. Assuming you make 6.50 in 1/2 hour you are pretty much right on target to averaging $10/hour like the rest. I would not have done anything differently. Find your rider if you can and cancel if you can't. You did the right thing. Just don't try to justify this as any kind of a money making proposition no matter your motivation, car driven or goals planned.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Had one a while back where the pin was in a pasture with no buildings anywhere in sight.


I had one a few months ago, where the nav app took me down a bunch of dirt roads, only to wind up at a locked gate on the back side of a business, about a mile from the rider. Turns out that he was at their main building, right on the main road.

Can't fault him for it. Fortunately the trip went in the direction I wanted to go.


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## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

Juggalo9er said:


> Are these within your morals
> View attachment 278010
> View attachment 278011
> View attachment 278010
> View attachment 278011


You did well. I got out of bed at 12 and went downtown when I saw it was surging at 300% on Lyft. Last night was nice. Reminds me of the old days.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The money is better in hacking.


I'm probably not up on terminology here, but the only 'hacking' I know is the practice of breaking into (improperly programmed/secured) computer systems. If that is a skill you really do have, then you should be able to land yourself a dream career that pays a hell of a lot better than grifting financially, intellectually, and in terms of enjoyment/satisfaction. I actually feel empathy towards telephone scammers who call me from underdeveloped countries and try to convince me they're tax collectors or the only guy who can save me from the evils of the internet. I feel that way because I genuinely believe that they are in a predicament for which there is no likely escape, and while I don't give them anything I talk to them from one human being to another instead of telling them off like many people would when they get those calls.
But you sound like someone who is well educated with an above average IQ. Is the grifter lifestyle enjoyable to the extent that it's preferable to a career that utilizes and rewards your exceptional gift of intellect?


Another Uber Driver said:


> A final thought: The only problem that you can solve by walking away from it is drug and alcohol addiction. If you can solve any other problem by walking away from it, I am not aware of it. At the very least, you will not solve the problem of the TNC/driver relationship by walking away from it.


So it's a form of vigilante activism?
You sound like someone who might be capable of enacting real change if you could put that passion/ anger/ resentment towards the injustices you've faced as well as your intellect and exceptional command of the English language to good use.


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## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> You can not have moral when dealing with an immoral company such as F*ub*a*r*
> 
> The only moral that I have is an increased bank account.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Caturria said:


> I actually feel empathy towards telephone scammers who call me from underdeveloped countries


Not me. But when I have extra time and they call me, I do try to shame them out of working the scams. LOL

About every other sentence I say to them is, "Stop working for a scammer and get a real job!" (Exclamation mark included in the original.)

I know darned well that working for a scam doesn't pay much better than a regular job in those places.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> OK I get that. Factoring in your numbers of $.05 replacement + $.03 maintenance onto: "It was 3.54 miles. That times .45 = $1.593. So $6.46 - $1.59 = net $4.87" is ($.08) * (3.54) = $.28 results in $4.87 - $.28 = $4.59 net?
> 
> So are you saying I should have cancelled to collect the fee? What about the "being nice" and not only providing the service requested but also the possibility of a tip? Cancellations result in no chance of a tip.


chance of getting a tip? Are you saying you do rides like that because you think the a$$holes gonna tip you? You got a better chance of a winged monkey flying out of your butt!!!!


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Not me. But when I have extra time and they call me, I do try to shame them out of working the scams. LOL
> 
> About every other sentence I say to them is, "Stop working for a scammer and get a real job!" (Exclamation mark included in the original.)
> 
> I know darned well that working for a scam doesn't pay much better than a regular job in those places.


They are probably lured in by the promise of a good job and good money, then when they learn it's a scam they can't leave whether they want to or not, because the masterminds can't risk having them talk.
Whether it's true or not I don't know, but I've had a few of them tell me (in hushed tones, I might add) that they fear they'd be killed if they walked away. I don't have any reason not to believe them given the kind of people they're involved with.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

UsedToBeAPartner said:


> Bryan/College Station is only 6 miles from 1 end to the other. Very little chance for a long trip (10 miles is long?) and with college kids the chance for a tip is even smaller. Assuming you make 6.50 in 1/2 hour you are pretty much right on target to averaging $10/hour like the rest. I would not have done anything differently. Find your rider if you can and cancel if you can't. You did the right thing. Just don't try to justify this as any kind of a money making proposition no matter your motivation, car driven or goals planned.


Appreciate your doing a bit of research on my area. Yes it's small but with a large, especially student, density population within.

Have to admit my last ride last night around 2 AM was one I was sorely tempted to shuffle. Pickup was female and I get a text en route giving me their location. The street name and address was close to the ride share pick up drop off area so I texted back I'd pick her up there and would have a yellow flashing light on top to help her find me. She replies back she's not close to that. I call and get her mother (the ride requester). Tells me her daughter is upset and afraid to walk to that location. Give the mother my cell number and ask that she have her daughter call me. She did and stayed with me until I found her. (BTW it was a 3.5X surge ride). She cried all the way to the destination. The mother tipped me . And it was a $24 ride with $2.50 in wait time included.

In keeping with the original intent of my thread. What would you have done?



UsedToBeAPartner said:


> Assuming you make 6.50 in 1/2 hour you are pretty much right on target to averaging $10/hour like the rest. I would not have done anything differently


I drive almost always late night Thursday-Saturday. During semester breaks I rarely drive. My average per hour before expenses is in the $20-$22 per hour range. I'm fortunate in that I don't have to do this at all if I don't want to.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> chance of getting a tip? Are you saying you do rides like that because you think the a$$holes gonna tip you? You got a better chance of a winged monkey flying out of your butt!!!!


I'm saying if I don't do them there's 0% chance of getting a tip. Last night my method with 4.5 hours online brought in gross $116, of which $17 was tips. The possibility of tips is not my sole reason for doing these trips. My personal commitment to completing something I accepted to do is completed is.

Example, not TNC related. I recently accepted a sub contract job for work to be done at a small (poor) school district about 30 miles from me. The scope of work was defined up front as well as the pay ($2K). Should have been a 3 day job max with little to no manual labor involved. Turned into a 5 day job and there was some manual labor involved. Was I bothered the actual scope of work versus pay was skewed? Yes! Did I whine to my contractor I should have been paid more or even walked off the job unfinished? No! My personal ethics demanded I finish the job to the best of my ability and to not cut any corners to do so.

Flame away all you want. My GAS for that broke a long time ago.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)




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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Fozzie said:


> View attachment 278090


Cute. But no where have I called anyone here an @@shole or any such thing nor have I even flamed them for their opinion. And if I did the ignore thing how would I get their opinion?

LMAO


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> I'm saying if I don't do them there's 0% chance of getting a tip. Last night my method with 4.5 hours online brought in gross $116, of which $17 was tips. The possibility of tips is not my sole reason for doing these trips. My personal commitment to completing something I accepted to do is completed is.
> 
> Example, not TNC related. I recently accepted a sub contract job for work to be done at a small (poor) school district about 30 miles from me. The scope of work was defined up front as well as the pay ($2K). Should have been a 3 day job max with little to no manual labor involved. Turned into a 5 day job and there was some manual labor involved. Was I bothered the actual scope of work versus pay was skewed? Yes! Did I whine to my contractor I should have been paid more or even walked off the job unfinished? No! My personal ethics demanded I finish the job to the best of my ability and to not cut any corners to do so.
> 
> Flame away all you want. My GAS for that broke a long time ago.


I don't know you from Adam, but I must say I have immense respect for you.
A lot of people here seem to be of the belief that circumstance changed who they are as people, but that's a canard and a copout. In reality, who you are dictates how you cope with circumstance, and whether or not you choose to rise above it or take the coward's way out.
Can I share with you a possibly tl;dr personal story?
A little while ago I traveled to the huge metropolis of Toronto to catch a movie that was only playing in select cinemas and nowhere near where I lived. When it was over, I had the manager of the theatre bring me to the doors at which point I called myself an Uber to get home (45 miles).
Now I had to call the driver to explain that I was actually inside the building and would need her to collect me from seating near the doors and bring me to her car. She was more than willing even though it didn't go smoothly as planned. By the time she figured out which entrance I was at, parked her car and walked in, and then walked with me what had to have been five minutes back to her car, I'm sure she was there for at least 15 minutes before we finally left. I was absolutely blown away at the fact she didn't leave, and of course being a decent human being I gave her a 20% gratuity on a $90 fair. I probably would have given 10%, maybe 15% otherwise had it not been for how difficult the pickup turned out to be and just how patient and kind she was. Not to mention I was literally in tears thanking her. Had I known it would be that difficult for her I never would have gone there in the first place and would have just resigned myself to missing out on yet another experience.
I hope to be blessed with an opportunity to make a profound difference in the quality of someones life like that sometime in the near future as a means of paying it forward, because no matter how much the tip was it doesn't feel like enough in the grand scheme of things.
Your story sounds like it might be something similar. Maybe she was trying to escape an abusive situation and had a limited window of time to do so, and your patience and compassion may have saved her from more intolerable abuse. Just speculating.
I feel it's not the everyday goings on that matter, it's those once in a lifetime miracles that people remember and what really make the difference between a world worth living in and one not worth living in. Something like this: 



Sorry for the long winded dissertation, but again, hats off to you and mad respect.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

@*Caturria*
*Thank you!! Your "long winded dissertation" proves that not all pax are greedy SOBs and really appreciate the extra effort and time given by some of us drivers.*


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Caturria said:


> Now I had to call the driver to explain that I was actually inside the building and would need her to collect me from seating near the doors and bring me to her car. She was more than willing even though it didn't go smoothly as planned. By the time she figured out which entrance I was at, parked her car and walked in, and then walked with me what had to have been five minutes back to her car, I'm sure she was there for at least 15 minutes before we finally left. I was absolutely blown away at the fact she didn't leave, and of course being a decent human being I gave her a 20% gratuity on a $90 fair. I probably would have given 10%, maybe 15% otherwise had it not been for how difficult the pickup turned out to be and just how patient and kind she was.


The rub here is that you are _*avis rara*_. Most people do not tip even ten per-cent for extra effort; never mind twenty. I do understand that some people _*jess ain't got it t'give*_, but here, at least, you run across more than a few _*what does got it but ain't comin' off it*_. Then, you get the other extreme, and they ARE in the minority, who think that you, PERSONALLY, owe them something.

Human beings are empirical creatures. You can burn 'em once, perhaps even two or three times, but, after the third time, they adjust their behaviour accordingly. My motive is profit, in greenbacks, mind you. Stars and badges may be wonderful, but, when I tried to pay my house payment with stars and badges, the mortgage holder threatened foreclosure. I had to send a cheque. I can not go into the Safeway (or Loblaw's); fill up my cart; go to the check out line and say "Oh, I ____________________(fill in appropriate Good Deed)" and expect to walk out of there.

This is what explains more than a little of the shabby treatment. In _*Wanted, a New Law of Development*_, Jack London expresses it well: "Competitive capitalism and altruism are mutually destructive entities. They can not co-exist." This article is over one-hundred years old, but many of its points are STILL valid. This comes from someone who is anything BUT a socialist. If there is any business that is competitively capitalistic, it is this one.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> You can burn 'em once, perhaps even two or three times, but, after the third time, they adjust their behaviour accordingly


Can you expand on the "burn" part of this? I'm really not sure what you mean.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Allow me to go from active to passive voice, add a few words; perhaps that will illustrate it better:

"A human being can get burned by someone once, perhaps even two or three times, but, after he gets burned the third time, he adjusts his behaviour accordingly."


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Allow me to go from active to passive voice, add a few words; perhaps that will illustrate it better:
> 
> "A human being can get burned by someone once, perhaps even two or three times, but, after he gets burned the third time, he adjusts his behaviour accordingly."


I understand the burn concept. What I was asking for more specifically is how it applies in your actions to ride share. I know you don't physically burn anyone (at least I hope not ).


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> @*Caturria*
> *Thank you!! Your "long winded dissertation" proves that not all pax are greedy SOBs and really appreciate the extra effort and time given by some of us drivers.*


Likewise. Your posts also prove that not all drivers are greedy sobs who feel that collecting someone else's legitimate money for service they have no intention to provide is their god given right. Hence, mad respect. Those ones should self identify as what they are. Not drivers, but leaches. The rest, like you, deserve respect.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Cute. But no where have I called anyone here an @@shole or any such thing nor have I even flamed them for their opinion. And if I did the ignore thing how would I get their opinion?
> 
> LMAO


You didn't say that my values were a result of my upbringing.....hmmm myst have misread that...

Here's what you're looking for 
SOME ATTENTION


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Cute. But no where have I called anyone here an @@shole or any such thing nor have I even flamed them for their opinion. And if I did the ignore thing how would I get their opinion?
> 
> LMAO


Rideshare drivers take life too seriously. LOL It's a joke aimed at your thread title, nothing more.

Happy Sunday.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> Here's what you're looking for
> SOME ATTENTION


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The rub here is that you are _*avis rara*_. Most people do not tip even ten per-cent for extra effort; never mind twenty. I do understand that some people _*jess ain't got it t'give*_, but here, at least, you run across more than a few _*what does got it but ain't comin' off it*_. Then, you get the other extreme, and they ARE in the minority, who think that you, PERSONALLY, owe them something.
> 
> Human beings are empirical creatures. You can burn 'em once, perhaps even two or three times, but, after the third time, they adjust their behaviour accordingly. My motive is profit, in greenbacks, mind you. Stars and badges may be wonderful, but, when I tried to pay my house payment with stars and badges, the mortgage holder threatened foreclosure. I had to send a cheque. I can not go into the Safeway (or Loblaw's); fill up my cart; go to the check out line and say "Oh, I ____________________(fill in appropriate Good Deed)" and expect to walk out of there.
> 
> This is what explains more than a little of the shabby treatment. In _*Wanted, a New Law of Development*_, Jack London expresses it well: "Competitive capitalism and altruism are mutually destructive entities. They can not co-exist." This article is over one-hundred years old, but many of its points are STILL valid. This comes from someone who is anything BUT a socialist. If there is any business that is competitively capitalistic, it is this one.


Are you of the opinion that the world owes you a living -- a comfortable one at that -- and that it should simply fall into your lap with no effort, despite the fact you have an IQ that could afford you the career of any man's dreams?
The 'business' you speak of is simply taking money for something you have no intentions of providing. In other words, I don't need to earn it, I'll just take yours. Yet you're not the low class, low IQ, low education, low opportunity type for whom that makes sense.
Myself, I more than qualify for disability benefits, and currently receive them while I finish school. I could opt to let the tax payers spoon feed me for the rest of my life, and with a supportive family I could simply glide right along worry free until the end. Yet nothing about that feels right, and I couldn't live with that choice. Moreover, I suspect that were I to make that choice in the long run, that you or someone like you might resent me for it (justifiably so), even if your ways amount to the same thing.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Caturria said:


> Are you of the opinion that the world owes you a living -- a comfortable one at that -- and that it should simply fall into your lap with no effort, despite the fact you have an IQ that could afford you the career of any man's dreams?
> The 'business' you speak of is simply taking money for something you have no intentions of providing. In other words, I don't need to earn it, I'll just take yours. Yet you're not the low class, low IQ, low education, low opportunity type for whom that makes sense.
> Myself, I more than qualify for disability benefits, and currently receive them while I finish school. I could opt to let the tax payers spoon feed me for the rest of my life, and with a supportive family I could simply glide right along worry free until the end. Yet nothing about that feels right, and I couldn't live with that choice. Moreover, I suspect that were I to make that choice in the long run, that you or someone like you might resent me for it (justifiably so), even if your ways amount to the same thing.


I would bet waiters and waitresses love serving you


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> I would bet waiters and waitresses love serving you


What? why?


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Caturria said:


> What? why?


$2.15 or so an hour.... you think they expect tips


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> $2.15 or so an hour.... you think they expect tips


Yeah, no kidding. Though in my case going to a restaurant is not the same thing as a cab driver. I order my food, they bring it out just as they would for any other customer. So I'm choosing to tip or not to tip based on the same criteria as anybody else would. Good food, polite and prompt service = standard 15% or so as per generally accepted cultural etiquette. It's not as though I have to ask them to spoon-feed me or do something way out of the ordinary, so I'm not tipping based on extenuating circumstances. And in the situation I described earlier, had it have taken the usual <1 minute time for that driver to come and get me, I wouldn't have tipped significantly beyond what good etiquette dictates. It was only the fact that it was a significant amount of extra time which warranted the significantly higher than normal gratuity. It was well earned.


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## AnotherUberGuy (Oct 26, 2018)

BCS DRIVER said:


> I understand the burn concept. What I was asking for more specifically is how it applies in your actions to ride share. I know you don't physically burn anyone (at least I hope not ).


Here are some examples of what I would consider a "burn":
a) "Hey Bro, can you stop at a _____ for a few minutes? I'll tip you in the app!" Driver wastes 10+ minutes waiting, getting paid pennies per minute. Rider doesn't tip at all. 
b) Uber Eats Driver spends 30 minutes driving in the crashing thunder, lightning, and rain to take food to someone who was too scared/lazy/whatever to venture out into the bad weather to go get their own food. Customer tip: $0 
c) Uber Driver spends 30+ minutes taking someone home from grocery store, and likely helping move bags, fare: $4, tip: $0
d) "Hey Bro, I know my ride is taking you out of the city, I'll tip you something to make up for it" Tip: $0
e) (After smelling mangoes or pineapples or whatever the hell smell) "Are you Juuling?" "Yeah, it's just water vapor bro"
f) Dogs. doesn't even ask one way or another, just loads up the dog and says "This is my service dog". It is some yappy dog which is very affectionate with the owner, behaving very demonstrably, is not wearing any kind of indicia, and is clearly not a service dog.

I can probably come up with several more.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

AnotherUberGuy said:


> Here are some examples of what I would consider a "burn":
> a) "Hey Bro, can you stop at a _____ for a few minutes? I'll tip you in the app!" Driver wastes 10+ minutes waiting, getting paid pennies per minute. Rider doesn't tip at all.
> b) Uber Eats Driver spends 30 minutes driving in the crashing thunder, lightning, and rain to take food to someone who was too scared/lazy/whatever to venture out into the bad weather to go get their own food. Customer tip: $0
> c) Uber Driver spends 30+ minutes taking someone home from grocery store, and likely helping move bags, fare: $4, tip: $0
> ...


Dogs are almost always good for a cleaning fee


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

BCS DRIVER said:


> Appreciate your doing a bit of research on my area. Yes it's small but with a large, especially student, density population within.


I understand the market (despite your sarcasm) as I have driven there in the past. I knew within a few days that I had made a terrible mistake choosing BCS as my base. I have driven in 2 different cities in AZ as well as BCS, Austin/San Marcos and Houston. BCS was absolutely the worst! Despite the surges (and the drunk college students) there's simply not enough business for all the drivers other than the few overnight hours taking the kids to and from the bars. If you were happy then you would never have posted here. You just need to grab yourself by the balls and take look at what you are doing without the rose colored glasses. NOT ONE of your riders gives a crap about you or what you do or what you make. If you are not looking out for yourself you are the asphalt and your riders are the steamrollers!


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

BCS DRIVER said:


> @*Caturria*
> *Thank you!! Your "long winded dissertation" proves that not all pax are greedy SOBs and really appreciate the extra effort and time given by some of us drivers.*


In 25 words or less, what did they say. I "somehow missed" their post.


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

No pax (OK 1 in 100 pax) appreciate your extra effort. The rest "assume" that it's your job to figure out the pickup point they (or Uber) created. Doing anything less gets you no "creds" despite trying your hardest to do the right thing.


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## BCS DRIVER (Oct 25, 2018)

UsedToBeAPartner said:


> I understand the market (despite your sarcasm)


I never intended there to be sarcasm. Really thought you did indeed do some research on it.



UsedToBeAPartner said:


> No pax (OK 1 in 100 pax) appreciate your extra effort


Guess I'll have to be happy with the 1 in 100. 1 beats 0. But at the end of the day the only one that really counts as being satisfied due to the extra effort is me.

Not having driven in other markets, and no desire to do so, the posts on this forum are an eye opener.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Caturria said:


> Are you of the opinion that the world owes you a living -- a comfortable one at that -- and that it should simply fall into your lap with no effort?


I do not know why you are asking that question. If you think that I am not making efforts out here or working, then you are sadly mistaken. What I want is the same rules for everyone in the marketplace. That is not happening. The game is rigged, so I am going to game it.

What I want is to be properly compensated for my time. That is not happening if I play by the rules handed to me. I am not unwilling to do the work. Some people are simply unwilling to pay.



> The 'business' you speak of is simply taking money for something you have no intentions of providing. In other words, I don't need to earn it, I'll just take yours.


To what do you refer, here?



> Myself, I more than qualify for disability benefits, and currently receive them while I finish school. I could opt to let the tax payers spoon feed me for the rest of my life, and with a supportive family I could simply glide right along worry free until the end. Yet nothing about that feels right, and I couldn't live with that choice. Moreover, I suspect that were I to make that choice in the long run, that you or someone like you might resent me for it (justifiably so), even if your ways amount to the same thing.


No, my ways amount playing just as dirty as everyone else is. I have been down the road of my fighting clean while everyone else plays dirty. It does not pay. Do not expect me to play by the rules while everyone else breaks them. If you do, I am going to disappoint you.

Your ways, however, do suggest that workers who agitate for better pay are acting like the world owes them something.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I do not know why you are asking that question. If you think that I am not making efforts out here or working, then you are sadly mistaken. What I want is the same rules for everyone in the marketplace. That is not happening. The game is rigged, so I am going to game it.
> 
> What I want is to be properly compensated for my time. That is not happening if I play by the rules handed to me. I am not unwilling to do the work. Some people are simply unwilling to pay.
> 
> ...


Still, your responses seem to hinge on this assumption that TNCs are your only option. That might be the case for some high school dropout, but certainly not for someone with even half the IQ and education which you prominently wear on your sleeve. That's something most people would kill for. So why squander it? Why not go for a career that values the gifts you have and appropriately rewards you for them?
With your exceptional gift of vocabulary and charisma, you could probably make real constructive progress in fighting for fair treatment of TNC workers by means of public awareness if that's really what you want to do. Have you ever thought about publishing literature on the topic?


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Caturria said:


> Still, your responses seem to hinge on this assumption that TNCs are your only option. That might be the case for some high school dropout, but certainly not for someone with even half the IQ and education which you prominently wear on your sleeve. That's something most people would kill for. So why squander it? Why not go for a career that values the gifts you have and appropriately rewards you for them?
> With your exceptional gift of vocabulary and charisma, you could probably make real constructive progress in fighting for fair treatment of TNC workers by means of public awareness if that's really what you want to do. Have you ever thought about publishing literature on the topic?


6 page thread... he is an author


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> 6 page thread... he is an author


He is a captivating one at that.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

BCS DRIVER said:


> And I do greatly appreciate those honest opinions
> 
> Absolutely agree.
> 
> There's financial bankruptcy and moral bankruptcy. Which one are you referring to?


Moral bankruptcy is an analogy. There is only bankruptcy, which refers to a state of economic catastrophe.

By using the phrase " moral bankruptcy" the argument, in formal logical structure, looks something like this:

1 Morals and personal financial assets are both things that have a quantity of between 0 and a theoretical infinity.

2 Bankruptcy is a state in which someone has a quantity of financial assets that is equal to 0.

Conclusion: By analogy of premises 1 and 2, Morals can be bankrupted.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Let me share something that happened to me over the summer. I hadn't been driving very long, maybe a month at that point. It's long, and you don't have to read it.

I got a ping to a dialysis center. The rider was an elderly black lady who couldn't move very fast. Someone from the center and I helped her into the car. I loaded her walker into the back.

We arrived at the destination, but no one answered the door to let her in, at the house where she was staying. I waited with her while she called her daughter, who apparently had requested the ride.

Her daughter put in a new destination, of her own house, and we headed there. Right before we arrived, we got an updated destination, back to the original one. Her daughter had reached the people who lived there. So we headed back there.

I helped her out of the car, and she went into the house, with assistance from the woman who also lived there. I don't even remember if I got a tip. I don't think I did, but it doesn't matter.

I may have done more for inter-racial relations than I'll do for the rest of my life. Just by being patient, kind, courteous, etc.

C


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Caturria said:


> Still, your responses seem to hinge on this assumption that TNCs are your only option.


No, the TNC is an option when the cab business is slow.



> Why not go for a career that values the gifts you have and appropriately rewards you for them?


I had one. In fact, I had more than one. Despite my well deserved and jealously guarded reputation for cyberloquacity, that story is too long even for ME. Suffice it to state that my gifts were neither valued nor appropriately rewarded in some of the careers at which you hint.



> With your exceptional gift of vocabulary and charisma, you could probably make real constructive progress in fighting for fair treatment of TNC workers by means of public awareness if that's really what you want to do. Have you ever thought about publishing literature on the topic?


There is more than one rub on that.

Rubbo Numero Uno is that as long as the riding public can press a button and a ride shows up, it does not care about anything else. To be sure, Lyft does get some mileage out of the "better boyfriend"* image that it puts out there, but, in reality, most people do not care. In fact, these people who are trying to be "socially conscious shoppers" by using Lyft over Uber would be surprised to know that Lyft is just as bad, _*it jess ain't done been caught, yet*_.

The majority of the public cares as much about drivers as it does the immigrant lady who brings the Icky-D's order to the counter, the Uber Eats delivery guy that they do not tip or the person selling them a beer and a hot dog at the baseball game--ZERO.

On the last, you would be appalled at how some of these supposedly edge-uh-mah-kaytidd, (allegedly), refined and (supposedly) "progressive" individuals treat some of these people at the ball park. I may not be on their level of wealth, but, my parents raised me much better than that. These same people treat their drivers the same way. They really do not care.

Number two- I am trying to figure out how to reach the ants. The ants are the key to this. Take the ants out of play, and the TNCs must listen. As long as the ants are in play, the TNCs will do as they will and this whole, sad state of affairs continues. You get a very small minority of the TNC drivers here, and, the better ones, at that.

There is more, but chew on those for a minute.

*I did not invent the "better boyfriend" term to describe the image that Lyft is trying to cultivate among the "socially conscious" riding public; credit for that goes to the Washington Boards' own New2This . For a cowpies fan, he has his moments.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> No, the TNC is an option when the cab business is slow.
> 
> I had one. In fact, I had more than one. Despite my well deserved and jealously guarded reputation for cyberloquacity, that story is too long even for ME. Suffice it to state that my gifts were neither valued nor appropriately rewarded in some of the careers at which you hint.
> 
> ...


If I hadn't stumbled across this forum before ever using Uber as a pax, I might have fallen for Uber or Lyft's propaganda too. The tip is included and all the other stuff they tell people. I've never seen this in the news, never a PSA on television/radio, just nothing. The fact that the rich look down on the poor, the straight look down on the gay, the able bodied look down on the disabled, etc etc aside, I suspect the masses have no idea what's going on in this arena at all. There's just nothing in mainstream media whatsoever.
How much do you know about people who depend on paratransit systems for their independence, like me? Did you know that we are complete and utter puppets to those organizations?
Did you know that they control every waking moment of our lives, when we work, when we play, when we socialize, what time we come home and what time we wake up?
Did you know that just to leave our homes they make us wait on the phone for sometimes hours, then when someone finally does come on the line they practically make us beg them to find a way to schedule us for at least a time somewhere close to what we need, then they make us wait unbounded amounts of time for the driver to arrive, and finally (since paratransit is Uber Pool on steroids) make us ride around for sometimes over an hour while we pickup and dropoff ten other people before being dropped off ourselves?
Did you know that in order to arrive on time for a doctor's appointment, class, work etc that we have to set it up such that the most probable outcome is arrival 90 minutes early, because doing anything less results in a significant probability of being considerably late?
Did you know that start at 9:00 and end at 5:00 really means leave home at 7:00 and arrive back home at 7:00 PM, as if I had a hundred mile commute, even though I might only live five miles away?
Did you know that they hold us accountable for an entire page of rules (for which the consequence of breaking any of them is perpetual strandedness), yet they can make huge blunders on a consistent basis, putting the ridership in dangerous situations willy nilly, with nobody to hold them accountable and no expectation of so much as an apology?
Did you know that when those drivers decide to shuffle, it counts as me the passenger screwing up and results in the aforementioned one size fits all perpetual strandedness edict?
I'm not asking you to empathize or even understand, I'm just asking if you knew that's how it was. It's a completely niche underground issue that's never gotten mainstream attention. There's no therapeutic forum with thousands of members to share in each other's frustrations and support one another. I have the technical knowhow to set such a thing up but no idea how to attract new members from all over the world. I guess I have to be the one to start the ball rolling.

I definitely think you have the leadership capability to bring a bunch of you guys together as a group and start public awareness efforts which could hopefully lead to improved legislation.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Caturria said:


> How much do you know about people who depend on paratransit systems for their independence, like me? Did you know that we are complete and utter puppets to those organizations?


I know a little more than you might think. Since you know something about my edge-uh-mah-kay-shinn, I am surprised that you do not know my background. I will put it here.

I was an official of a cab company, here.
I was an official of a taxicab insurance company, here.
I worked with various regulators on various things, including how to get taxicab service for people with disabilities.
I was a dispatcher.

Add to this:

My elderly father currently depends heavily on paratransit. Fortunately for him, what is available to him is pretty good. Where it does fail, one of us will send him Uber or Lyft. Once a driver accepts, whoever sent him the car will call the driver and let him know what is what. My siblings know to do this thanks to my being a provider. We do not want any nasty surprises for Dad. It is much better to let a driver who does not want to do it get out of it, than have Dad subjected to any nonsense. Dad does not need anything special, but he is a little slow and creaky, so he does need patience (which, for some people, IS "special"). Of course, the paratransit drivers already are aware of this. Those who can not handle it wash out quickly.

Do not think that I do not know what you must suffer. I do. Do not think that I have no idea what is and is not necessary. I do.

The rub here, is that providing this necessary service at the maximum convenience of those who need it costs money. SOMEONE must pay for it. The question is WHO?

I do not know too much about what anyone in Canada does to address this. When I lived in Canada, I did not live in Ontario. At the time that I lived in Canada, people were just becoming aware of the needs of the "challenged" (is that the current PC word for it?). In fact, that word for it had not yet been invented, be it in English or French. In fact, even though I lived in a Francophone city, there was neither an English or French word for it.

I do know what happens (and happened) here.

We had a Commissioner on the Taxicab Commission who was (and as far as I know, still is) blind. She was an advocate for the people with disabilities. She never understood anything about the cost of providing equitable and convenient service to those with disabilities until we, in the business, edge-uh-mah-kaytidd her. At that point, she began to work to get some funding for this.

If we address one specific topic, the need for funding becomes apparent.

It costs, say, thirty thousand dollars to acquire a van. It costs a further ten to fifteen thousand dollars to equip said van for access. The MV-1, which is designed for access, costs forty-five to fifty thousand dollars. You can see why the TNCs are having a hard time finding "partners" or "community members" who are willing to sign on to provide this service. WHO in his right mind is going to spend 2018 dollars to set himself up in business so that he can collect 1979 income?

The taxicab business can do a little better to address this, but still, the attitude of many operators is "Why should I spend all of this money to provide this service. Spend all of this time (READ: money) to provide it while the guy who is driving the sedan collects the same thing that I do for the trip?". Fortunately, people are finally understanding that. Here, they provided a series of grants. The initial was a total of twenty accessible vehicles to two cab companies. You now had twenty accessible vehicles for a city of just over six hundred thousand people.

In addition, the City set up a programme to make those with disabilities aware of the new service and for them to sign up. They provided the cab companies with contracts to service these programmes.

If you guessed that this was not enough, you win a prize. I had to dispatch vehicles to address these needs. I did not have enough (ten went to my company) to address those demands. In fact, I did not have enough to address the contract demand, never mind the private demand. The lack of vehicles ended up costing me my job. I got blamed for not having enough vehicles to address the demand.

Come the TNCs and new source of funding appears. The City levied a one per-cent tax on the TNCs to fund grants to cab drivers to buy accessibles. The programmes were expanded. Uber began to use the Uber Taxi platform to address demands for accessible service. I can not blame Uber for that, it was paying for the vehicles, it had a platform to take advantage of those vehicles, why should it not? (They used to have Uber Taxi in Toronto, but Uber shut down that level, there. I do not know why. Montréal still has it. Here, several cities have it, including mine. I drive on that level as well as X.)

This is incomplete, but......................

1) Ig it is not pushing the character limit, by the time that I would have finished this, it would have exceeded said limit.
2)I must take GF to the doctor, so I must go.

I will finish this later, but, if you want to address what I have put up here thus far, please do so. In fact, it might be better to take this in chunks. I have heard more than a little from you users, so I am not unfamiliar with your needs and demands. I know it better from the provider's viewpoint, as that is where I am.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> I was visiting DC. Had an issue that required me to go to GW emergency.
> 
> I'm released at 1am.
> Call uber to get back to hotel in Mclean.
> ...


I used to pick up at a few hospitals in my area all the time. Sometimes the main entrance, sometimes the ER.

The door that gave me more trouble was the main entrance. Little kids with no car seats, mostly.

Most of the pick ups at the ER door was staff. And the patients would have been treated and wrapped up and well enough to be discharged, so no problem.


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