# Long trip dissapointment



## metal_orion (May 14, 2015)

I should have known better and not have wasted my time on an out of state trip. Basically there is not compensation for doing this and drivers pretty much get paid less than the actual mileage of the trip. Never again!

I would have scored better by just driving in the city.


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## Kenster (May 13, 2019)

2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?


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## Bus Bozo (May 25, 2018)

Kenster said:


> 2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?


The loss is making less than 50 cents/mile....the OP is right, that's a loser trip.


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

Kenster said:


> 2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?


4.5 hours. $90 after gas.

$20 an hour.

270 miles on car.

When it is surging, you should expect $1 a mile.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Bus Bozo said:


> The loss is making less than 50 cents/mile....the OP is right, that's a loser trip.


we are only getting .60 a mile on all the miles we get in this market. Using that logic none of the trips are worth taking.
In the city if you dont get many pings or are sitting in traffic many times you wouldnt bring in that much in that time..


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## Bus Bozo (May 25, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> we are only getting .60 a mile on all the miles we get in this market. Using that logic none of the trips are worth taking.
> In the city if you dont get many pings or are sitting in traffic many times you wouldnt bring in that much in that time..


In my market we get 69 cents/mile, 24 cents/minute....$1/mile is doable. The $$/hour follow. This trip, coming in at about 49 cents/mile, is one I wouldn't touch....regardless of $$/hour.


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

That is depressing. At my local rates I would have made $210ish.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

As slow as my market has been, getting better rates then OP, then yes I would. Not life changing money by any means, but would work.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

Omg! From ORD to Madison is a long haul back for sure!!!! 120$ is peanuts! I won’t do long hauls unless surged, then they balance out the earnings. 

Did you check the fare charged from Uber?

You got ripped off from them no doubt.

I have seen some pings like this but always turn them down with no surge. Not the tiddlelwinks of $1.50 either, I mean 10 minimum and balance the rate after the drop off I would expect. Especially pulling there butts from ORD!


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Kenster said:


> 2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?





Bus Bozo said:


> The loss is making less than 50 cents/mile....the OP is right, that's a loser trip.


...and this has always been my argument about people concentrating on hourly pay. I concentrate on earnings per mile including dead miles. Now depending on what the OP's cost per mile is he most likely still made a profit. The question is could he have made more of a profit by doing a higher quantity of short trips in this time spent on the long trip? I don't know his market and the average pings per hour.

In my market I do take the 45+ trips with dead return miles. Why, because in the 2 hours that trip takes I may not get another ping.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

I wouldn't have done it without an extra $50 (at least) from the pax.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Sure, rates are fine as is.

*The current rates for Uber's Jersey Shore services are as follows:*

UberX. Base Fare: $2.40. Per Minute: $0.16. Per Mile: $1.70. Cancellation Fee: $5. ...


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## Solid 5 (Aug 24, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> ...and this has always been my argument about people concentrating on hourly pay. *I concentrate on earnings per mile including dead miles.* Now depending on what the OP's cost per mile is he most likely still made a profit. The question is could he have made more of a profit by doing a higher quantity of short trips in this time spent on the long trip? I don't know his market and the average pings per hour.
> 
> In my market I do take the 45+ trips with dead return miles. Why, because in the 2 hours that trip takes I may not get another ping.


For the win!


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Kenster said:


> 2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?


A first grade kid knows that's an unprofitable proposition.
How about you take all those trips to subsidize uber's operation.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

No Prisoners said:


> A first grade kid knows that's an unprofitable proposition.
> How about you take all those trips to subsidize uber's operation.


I see post after post about people getting hung up on hourly pay. It is a worker mentality not a business owner mentality. Workers want more pay per hour. Business owners want more profits per goods/service in this case profits per mile.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> ...and this has always been my argument about people concentrating on hourly pay. I concentrate on earnings per mile including dead miles. Now depending on what the OP's cost per mile is he most likely still made a profit. The question is could he have made more of a profit by doing a higher quantity of short trips in this time spent on the long trip? I don't know his market and the average pings per hour.
> 
> In my market I do take the 45+ trips with dead return miles. Why, because in the 2 hours that trip takes I may not get another ping.


This is the right answer.

When I get a long ride, I always ask my self the question: "Do I think I can I do better staying close to home?"

I've been tracking my total miles per day vs my paid miles since the first of the year and I track my dollars earned per total miles.

My Paid miles/ total miles is right at 50%. So it really dosent matter whether I drive 260 miles in one long ride or 260 miles in several short rides. The number of paid miles is the same.....50%


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

oldfart said:


> This is the right answer.
> 
> When I get a long ride, I always ask my self the question: "Do I think I can I do better staying close to home?"
> 
> ...


Bingo


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

I can see from the .648/mile and .224/minute that the OP is an 80%er and a long-time driver (2015 or earlier) in the Chicago market. The ride would have paid an even worse 5% less if he was a more recent signup. :frown:


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## TPAMB (Feb 13, 2019)

I had one of those recently. 2 actually. One was an X the other a Select. Neither tipped despite an $80 and $130 total. I ended up staying at the destination city, 2 hours and 75 miles away, as it is the biggest tourst attraction in my state. Worked the same method I use in my work city. Made about as much as I normally would so I was glad not to dead head it back. The ride home was about 2x as long as usual. If it was to a dead area, I would have likely canceled.


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## LIsuberman (Nov 12, 2018)

the question not brought up is - did the rider tip you in cash ?


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

I love long trips but my market is 91 cents per mile. In fact, really, here long trips and trips where you are decently tipped are the only ones really worth it.


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

At those rates i wouldnt drive uber at all.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

NotanEmployee said:


> At those rates i wouldnt drive uber at all.


 I agree. 64 cents is really crappy. I complain a lot about the pay and my market is 91 cents. I couldn't imagine driving for that low of a rate. I know in Orlando it is 54 cents. It's just unbelieveable that the company seems to think this is acceptable. I hope those driving in such low pay markets at least get tipped well, but sadly I know better than that.


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## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

.6075 per mile here in Charlotte. Abysmal!


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## Kenster (May 13, 2019)

No Prisoners said:


> A first grade kid knows that's an unprofitable proposition.
> How about you take all those trips to subsidize uber's operation.


2+2 does equal 4 man. How do you know it's unprofitable for the OP? What's his cost per mile? My time is worth infinitely more than my miles so there's that.


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## Wraiththe (Nov 26, 2017)

The biggest problem With these is when you get a trip out of state. It's funny that Uber will not let you work normal rides but they will let you work Uber eats out of state. So you literally cannot work there and it is a definite dead Leg home. Also it's funny when you think about your tsx deductions for the miles; because basically the tax deduction is only a few cents less than what we make per mile... so when you double the mileage your tax deduction is going to be more than you make for the trip... in fact it's close to double.


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## TPAMB (Feb 13, 2019)

Yes if it gets me from my rural home to my work city. No if it takes me the opposite direction unless the destination is a substitute for the volume found in my work city.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

So did you negotiate a return trip surcharge? 

I would ask for at least $40. Or you might ask tgem to add an additional stop in rockford, so you keep the meter going that long.


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## Kenster (May 13, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> ...and this has always been my argument about people concentrating on hourly pay. I concentrate on earnings per mile including dead miles. Now depending on what the OP's cost per mile is he most likely still made a profit. The question is could he have made more of a profit by doing a higher quantity of short trips in this time spent on the long trip? I don't know his market and the average pings per hour.
> 
> In my market I do take the 45+ trips with dead return miles. Why, because in the 2 hours that trip takes I may not get another ping.


I live in the suburbs an hour north of NYC and most of the trips here aren't short trips from drop-offs to the next pickup. We get paid pickup premiums when the pickup is over 10 minutes and that happens quite frequently. UberX here gets $0.81 base fare, $0.705 per mile & $0.18 per min.


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## Jake Air (Mar 31, 2018)

Kenster said:


> 2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?


You need to go back to math class.


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## Kenster (May 13, 2019)

Jake Air said:


> You need to go back to math class.


2+2 doesn't equal 4?
120 divided by 4 doesn't equal 30?


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> I see post after post about people getting hung up on hourly pay. It is a worker mentality not a business owner mentality. Workers want more pay per hour. Business owners want more profits per goods/service in this case profits per mile.


You are so right. I couldn't less about hourly pay. It's all about my total pay versus my total expenses.


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## Jake Air (Mar 31, 2018)

Kenster said:


> 2+2 doesn't equal 4?
> 120 divided by 4 doesn't equal 30?


Let's see. If Johnny pays $50 for a ticket to go the the Giants game. And he pays $20 to park his car, $20 to pay for the gas to drive to and from his house, $30 for a beer and a hot dog, and $10 for bridge tolls; then if we do Kenster math, Johnny only spent $50 to go to the Giants game. Right Kenster?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

TemptingFate said:


> .6075 per mile here in Charlotte. Abysmal!


Better than the $0.4896/mile I'm getting in my market.


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## Kenster (May 13, 2019)

Jake Air said:


> Let's see. If Johnny pays $50 for a ticket to go the the Giants game. And he pays $20 to park his car, $20 to pay for the gas to drive to and from his house, $30 for a beer and a hot dog, and $10 for bridge tolls; then if we do Kenster math, Johnny only spent $50 to go to the Giants game. Right Kenster?


Actually no. You're the one assuming all the rest of the shit. I pointed out his hourly gross pay. All the math I did was spot on. You're the one making all the ASSumptions.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Jake Air said:


> Let's see. If Johnny pays $50 for a ticket to go the the Giants game. And he pays $20 to park his car, $20 to pay for the gas to drive to and from his house, $30 for a beer and a hot dog, and $10 for bridge tolls; then if we do Kenster math, Johnny only spent $50 to go to the Giants game. Right Kenster?


What the heck are you talking about?
It's a simple equation 
120/4= 30


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## Kenster (May 13, 2019)

Jake Air said:


> Let's see. If Johnny pays $50 for a ticket to go the the Giants game. And he pays $20 to park his car, $20 to pay for the gas to drive to and from his house, $30 for a beer and a hot dog, and $10 for bridge tolls; then if we do Kenster math, Johnny only spent $50 to go to the Giants game. Right Kenster?


If someone asked Johnny how much he paid for the ticket and he said $50 he would be correct. If someone asked how much he spent in total that day at the giant game he would say $130. If someone asked him how much he HAD to pay to go to the game he would say $100 since the beer and hot dog weren't required for him to attend.

So our OP made $120 to drive aprox 134 miles oubound. 120/134 = $0.896/mi. *Edit - I forgot he writes off the outbound miles too. So that adds another $0.58/mi to his outbound trip. So it's actually $1.48/mi outbound.
He then had 134 miles back which he writes off at $0.58 per mile. = $0.58/mi
That averages out to $0.7862/mi.  That averages out to $2.06/mi.
Subtract out cost (gas + all car expenses + taxes) and the OP has to decide if that's worth it to him. In my market it is. Therefore my question.

And Jake, don't be a Dbag.



Illini said:


> You are so right. I couldn't less about hourly pay. It's all about my total pay versus my total expenses.


Would you rather make $200 in 8 hours at $1 per mile or $200 in 4 hours at $0.70/mi?


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## Jake Air (Mar 31, 2018)

Kenster said:


> Actually no. You're the one assuming all the rest of the shit. I pointed out his hourly gross pay. All the math I did was spot on. You're the one making all the ASSumptions.


Oh all you did was point out hourly gross pay. Maybe on the moon, people take home hourly gross pay.
But here on this planet, we all take home something called "net."
So if all you had done was say, 30 bucks an hour (minus expenses), then I wouldn't have said a word.
But that's not what you did, is it? 
Instead you posted something out of the deceptive book of Uber talking points.
Ohhhh. Look, you made X-amount. Divide that by hours, and that's what you made. What a deal!!!
Go argue with someone who falls for your baloney.



oldfart said:


> What the heck are you talking about?
> It's a simple equation
> 120/4= 30


Your finances must be a mess. Poor guy.


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## Kenster (May 13, 2019)

Jake Air said:


> Oh all you did was point out hourly gross pay. Maybe on the moon, people take home hourly gross pay.
> But here on this planet, we all take home something called "net."
> So if all you had done was say, 30 bucks an hour (minus expenses), then I wouldn't have said a word.
> But that's not what you did, is it?
> ...


So when you tell someone how much you make you tell them your net pay? lmao. No, you tell them your hourly pay or your yearly gross pay. You don't go into all the child support, taxes etc... you pay do you? Stop trolling people as if you're king shit of something. You're the idiot that made assumptions not me. Now you're trying to turn your stupidity onto me. Nice projection but no thanks, you can keep your present. I've dealt with people like for many year bro.

And is there really anyone who reads these forums who don't understand the cost of doing business? I mean really. Does it always have to be pointed out to you? Does every single person have to write "after expenses" when they are talking about how much they grossed?

And one more thing. You're the one coming onto this thread spraying your attitude out. I didn't. You're the one making assumptions and personal attacks. That makes you the Dbag here. Put that in your pipe.

I found the ignore button. That will save me the trouble.



Wraiththe said:


> The biggest problem With these is when you get a trip out of state. It's funny that Uber will not let you work normal rides but they will let you work Uber eats out of state. So you literally cannot work there and it is a definite dead Leg home. Also it's funny when you think about your tsx deductions for the miles; because basically the tax deduction is only a few cents less than what we make per mile... so when you double the mileage your tax deduction is going to be more than you make for the trip... in fact it's close to double.


Everyone wants to talk about expenses then they leave out the $0.58/mi tax deduction which is calculated for ALL miles. If you remove all costs from the gross pay you have to add back in the tax deduction.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Kenster said:


> 2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?


134*2 miles on car. My uberX car costs 20 cents a mile to drive, my UberXL car costs 25 cents a mile to drive. Just talking gas, maintenance and car value divided by estimated miles to replacement assuming the car is no good at 300K miles.

134*2*.20=$53.60 in expenses

$121.40-53.60=$67.80

$67.80/4hrs= $16.95/hr actual profit if it was my car, and $13.60/hr if it was in my XL vehicle.


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## Jake Air (Mar 31, 2018)

Kenster said:


> So when you tell someone how much you make you tell them your net pay? lmao. No, you tell them your hourly pay or your yearly gross pay. You don't go into all the child support, taxes etc... you pay do you? Stop trolling people as if you're king shit of something. You're the idiot that made assumptions not me. Now you're trying to turn your stupidity onto me. Nice projection but no thanks, you can keep your present. I've dealt with people like for many year bro.


What a meltdown. One of the best I've seen in quite a while.
When I tell someone how much I make, I [email protected]@@@ at how much taxes and deductions disappear from the paycheck of my full-time job and how much gas prices are in California to drive around a bunch of knuckleheads for my part-time RS drive.
You're in complete denial if you look at your gross income and puff out your chest at that figure.
And you're not being honest if you tell people you make X-amount driving RS, and you don't also mention there are a hell of a lot of expenses that substantially lower that gross income figure.
Just like you were being dishonest telling the OP that the OP made $30 bucks an hour. No they didn't.
And if you're blind to any of these facts, I'm 100% certain you don't work for Kleiner Perkins

***On edit. I just noticed "Kenster" is one of our new members. What's wrong with me falling for yet another one of them :rollseyes:


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## TPAMB (Feb 13, 2019)

Yeah, typical forum mentality. People come here for help. Constructive criticism is fine but the bullying is not welcomed by those seeking opinions and help.


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

Kenster said:


> 2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?


Are you in your mind?????

This is a round trip of 270 freaking miles. Consider this at 0.30 cents per mile expense, that's $81 expense. To me the driver made $40 in the whole damn trip. Not to mentioned, if something goes wrong to the vehicle on this trip, flat tire or break down, they will see themselves not only in red but several days out of work.

I have a news for you buddy, cars don't grow on a tree.

And i am sure, as usual, no tip.


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## Jake Air (Mar 31, 2018)

Ubermcbc said:


> Are you in your mind?????
> 
> This is a round trip of 270 freaking miles. Consider this at 0.30 cents per mile expense, that's $81 expense. To me the driver made $40 in the whole damn trip. Not to mentioned, if something goes wrong to the vehicle on this trip, flat tire or break down, they will see themselves not only in red but several days out of work.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Someone who gets it.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> ...and this has always been my argument about people concentrating on hourly pay. I concentrate on earnings per mile including dead miles. Now depending on what the OP's cost per mile is he most likely still made a profit. The question is could he have made more of a profit by doing a higher quantity of short trips in this time spent on the long trip? I don't know his market and the average pings per hour.
> 
> In my market I do take the 45+ trips with dead return miles. Why, because in the 2 hours that trip takes I may not get another ping.


You're suppose to deduct your expenses from your hourly pay, if that's how you're keeping track of your income.

We can differ on how we track our money but to ignore expenses is delusional.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Jake Air said:


> Your finances must be a mess. Poor guy.


Actually, not so bad

I understand the difference between gross and net as does everyone here. And I believe that we all (except you of course) understood that Kenster was talking about gross income

The question Kenster asked is the important one to ask before you answer the ops question... "you grossed $30/ hour. Do you usually gross more than that?" If the answer is yes than don't take the long ride. If no... take it


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

I am curious as to what the rider paid..,,I bet you it was easily $160...which I would have done it for $140 in cash or venmo


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

Merc7186 said:


> I am curious as to what the rider paid..,,I bet you it was easily $160...which I would have done it for $140 in cash or venmo


If the expenses are 80 or may be even more, you are going to do it for 60 bucks for 4 hours trip for out of town? I won't. Guber should pay for the return milage or pay the fare at 1.5 times.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Jake Air said:


> What a meltdown. One of the best I've seen in quite a while.
> When I tell someone how much I make, I [email protected]@@@ at how much taxes and deductions disappear from the paycheck of my full-time job and how much gas prices are in California to drive around a bunch of knuckleheads for my part-time RS drive.
> You're in complete denial if you look at your gross income and puff out your chest at that figure.
> And you're not being honest if you tell people you make X-amount driving RS, and you don't also mention there are a hell of a lot of expenses that substantially lower that gross income figure.
> ...


No one is doing any chest puffing

Again, we all know the op didn't net $30/hr but calculating his net is not what this thread is about. The question is quite simple. "Would you take the long ride or not?" And comparing gross income taking the ride to gross income staying close to home, is a valid way to answer it.

Don't assume you are the only one that knows what he (or she) is doing here


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## Jake Air (Mar 31, 2018)

oldfart said:


> Actually, not so bad
> 
> I understand the difference between gross and net as does everyone here. And I believe that we all (except you of course) understood that Kenster was talking about gross income
> 
> The question Kenster asked is the important one to ask before you answer the ops question... "you grossed $30/ hour. Do you usually gross more than that?" If the answer is yes than don't take the long ride. If no... take it


Dude. This is what Kenster said:
"2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?"
Yea, the OP -- who drives in a huge city (Chicago) said they could have made more money staying within the city limits of Chicago
It was a very arrogant comment saying that to a driver who lives in one of the most expensive cities in the country.
Why would anyone challenge the OP's experience?



oldfart said:


> No one is doing any chest puffing
> 
> Again, we all know the op didn't net $30/hr but calculating his net is not what this thread is about. The question is quite simple. "Would you take the long ride or not?" And comparing gross income taking the ride to gross income staying close to home, is a valid way to answer it.
> 
> Don't assume you are the only one that knows what he (or she) is doing here


Also stop speaking for Kenster. Do I look like I need any help from you?


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## Kenster (May 13, 2019)

Ubermcbc said:


> Are you in your mind?????
> 
> This is a round trip of 270 freaking miles. Consider this at 0.30 cents per mile expense, that's $81 expense. To me the driver made $40 in the whole damn trip. Not to mentioned, if something goes wrong to the vehicle on this trip, flat tire or break down, they will see themselves not only in red but several days out of work.
> 
> ...


So you put the expense in there but you left out the $0.58 per mile you get as a tax write off. That equals $156.60 (0.58 x 270miles). You add that to the $40 he made on the trip and the total net pay is $196.60. You can get a flat tire or break down doing a 1/4 mile run so that's really a mute point. You might as well say it's possible a meteor can come down and total his car on this long trip so there's that. :smiles:

If your expenses are the $0.30/mile you stated in your comment and you get a write off of $0.58/mile (which is to cover expenses) you make $0.28 for every mile you drive your car ridesharing whether that's with a passenger or returning from a trip as dead mileage. You make $0.58/mile going to the gas station and the car wash because those are required for you to do business. You make that during your miles to go pick up a rider that Uber has just assigned you. Those are real dollars and they count.


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

Kenster said:


> So you put the expense in there but you left out the $0.58 per mile you get as a tax write off. That equals $156.60 (0.58 x 270miles). You add that to the $40 he made on the trip and the total net pay is $196.60. You can get a flat tire or break down doing a 1/4 mile run so that's really a mute point. You might as well say it's possible a meteor can come down and total his car on this long trip so there's that.


Did you read my post clearly? Did I mention anywhere related to tax benefits at all? I am talking about pure ACTUAL EXPENSE. I have numbers of my own trips history after 27k+ trips in taxi and guber. I have done several 200+ miles trip. Everytime when i came back, i had to fix something the next day or in a week and spend half of the earning or some permanent marks on my car. Doesn't matter you drive 20 miles in one day or 200, you vehicle won't ask maintenance after one day, but it constantly adding up. Majority of the drivers who buy car, they buy cars on finance, am i right or wrong? If anyone getting a car on 6-8% interest rates, by the time they are done of their payments, they end up paying for 2 cars. Did you consider that in your 0.58 cents tax break? The current per mile rates are highway robbery by both fake technology companies. When i was in taxi, it was a common notion that if you drive 14-15 hours a day, you will definatly run into 2-3 accidents per year. This was normal. The more you are on the roads, the probability of accident goes higher. Same goes with guber. If something goes wrong on an out of trip, do guber provide towing service? Based on the actual earning of $40, tell me, is it worth it? Whom you are going to call, your friends or buddy or another guber to ride back home?

All I am trying to say, in an out of town trips, benefits are not worth it to take more risks.


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## EphLux (Aug 10, 2018)

rkozy said:


> Better than the $0.4896/mile I'm getting in my market.


This is why I say Uber has to die! $0.49 a mile is highly unethical.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Ubermcbc said:


> Did you read my post clearly? Did I mention anywhere related to tax benefits at all? I am talking about pure ACTUAL EXPENSE. I have numbers of my own trips history after 27k+ trips in taxi and guber. I have done several 200+ miles trip. Everytime when i came back, i had to fix something the next day or in a week and spend half of the earning or some permanent marks on my car. Doesn't matter you drive 20 miles in one day or 200, you vehicle won't ask maintenance after one day, but it constantly adding up. Majority of the drivers who buy car, they buy cars on finance, am i right or wrong? If anyone getting a car on 6-8% interest rates, by the time they are done of their payments, they end up paying for 2 cars. Did you consider that in your 0.58 cents tax break? The current per mile rates are highway robbery by both fake technology companies. When i was in taxi, it was a common notion that if you drive 14-15 hours a day, you will definatly run into 2-3 accidents per year. This was normal. The more you are on the roads, the probability of accident goes higher. Same goes with guber. If something goes wrong on an out of trip, do guber provide towing service? Based on the actual earning of $40, tell me, is it worth it? Whom you are going to call, your friends or buddy or another guber to ride back home?
> 
> All I am trying to say, in an out of town trips, benefits are not worth it to take more risks.


You had to fix something every time you took a 200+ trip?

Really?

I quit reading after that.


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## #professoruber (Feb 19, 2018)

Negotiating cash up front for the return trip or declining the ride are my two options. I am okay with both. $ per hour doesn’t mean diddly when each mile equates to depreciation and expedited maintenance.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Kenster said:


> I don't even need to do an either or on you based on one thread - it's easy to know what kind of person you are in real life. 2+2 does equal 4 man. How do you know it's unprofitable for the OP? What's his cost per mile? My time is worth infinitely more than my miles so there's that.


Sir people who submit to taking trips at 62cents pmile and 13 cents p minute are the reason why uber lyft continue to rape drivers. That kind of mentality only contribute to the exploitation of the labor force who submissively subsidize both companies' operations. 
Evidently you don't value your time nor your vehicle.


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## Ubernomics (Nov 11, 2015)

Kenster said:


> 2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?


Fuel is the loss


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Kenster said:


> I don't even need to do an either or on you based on one thread - it's easy to know what kind of person you are in real life. 2+2 does equal 4 man. How do you know it's unprofitable for the OP? What's his cost per mile? My time is worth infinitely more than my miles so there's that.


It doesn't take a genius to realize that Uber must suppress driver rates to reduce its burn rate. Uber operates a flawed business model contingent on the exploitation of the labor force.

Nevertheless, arguments like yours make total sense now that I realized you're a new member. What is it you suddenly felt the need to join a forum for drivers and advocate uber's principles for driver economics.

Why are you trying so hard to lecture drivers into taking senseless rides that only benefit uber's bottom line. 
Are you also going to argue the use of the term labor force for driver partners. 
Which one is more in line with your manual. 
Can you write "Labor Force"? Or you're only allowed to use the term driver partners.
You sound like an Uber employee who goes around taking pictures of drivers protesting at the hub. Something very peculiar about your persistent lecturing.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Kenster said:


> So you put the expense in there but you left out the $0.58 per mile you get as a tax write off. That equals $156.60 (0.58 x 270miles). You add that to the $40 he made on the trip and the total net pay is $196.60. You can get a flat tire or break down doing a 1/4 mile run so that's really a mute point. You might as well say it's possible a meteor can come down and total his car on this long trip so there's that. :smiles:
> 
> If your expenses are the $0.30/mile you stated in your comment and you get a write off of $0.58/mile (which is to cover expenses) you make $0.28 for every mile you drive your car ridesharing whether that's with a passenger or returning from a trip as dead mileage. You make $0.58/mile going to the gas station and the car wash because those are required for you to do business. You make that during your miles to go pick up a rider that Uber has just assigned you. Those are real dollars and they count.


Not that you need to be told anything but you realize there is a huge difference between a "tax writeoff" (I think you mean tax credit) and a tax deductible expense. You do not get a .58 deduction of your taxes for each mile you drive, you get a deduction in income which is worth far less. I'm not even going to go into vehicle expenses, the math is a little more challenging.


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

touberornottouber said:


> I agree. 64 cents is really crappy. I complain a lot about the pay and my market is 91 cents. I couldn't imagine driving for that low of a rate. I know in Orlando it is 54 cents. It's just unbelieveable that the company seems to think this is acceptable. I hope those driving in such low pay markets at least get tipped well, but sadly I know better than that.


0.54 cents. It need guts not to show up only for one whole damn day to make a noise that the rates are extremely unreasonable.


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## Kenster (May 13, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Not that you need to be told anything


Holy shit this is a hostile forum. What the **** is wrong with you guys. Everyone here is trying to do this and make a living. Even the new guy that showed up. Are you like this in real life? If so, I feel ****ing sorry for the people you come in contact with.



Disgusted Driver said:


> but you realize there is a huge difference between a "tax writeoff" (I think you mean tax credit) and a tax deductible expense. You do not get a .58 deduction of your taxes for each mile you drive, you get a deduction in income which is worth far less. I'm not even going to go into vehicle expenses, the math is a little more challenging.


Yes you are correct. My math there is fubared. I realized that well after the time frame to actually edit the post.

So $0.58/mile is then multiplied by the percentage tax bracket you are in. So if you're in a 30% tax bracket you multiply the $0.58 by 30% and that equals $0.174 cents per mile. If your cost if $0.25/mile then actual expense are you $0.25- $0.174 = $0.076/mile for all miles driven including dead miles.

Of course, if your tax bracket is not 30% you adjust accordingly.



Disgusted Driver said:


> I'm not even going to go into vehicle expenses, the math is a little more challenging.


lmao. You're funny. Just more poison to spew. Are you that rotten man that you can't eject this shit in real life you have to shoot your crap all over the internet? I took 4 semesters of calculus, a semester of Differential Equations and a semester of Analytical Geometry. I think you're out of your league here when it comes to math bud. Your shot across my bow is a dud.

Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone doesn't understand a concept until they do. Even you man. But you forget that and sit there acting as if you were never in that position.

Let me dazzle you with some LaPlace Transforms because I'm all that and then I can tell you the "math is a bit more challenging"


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Yes, in our market ( Seattle) Most 45+ do not take us out of market, and when they do its very rare that it's 30 minutes back to a workable situation. 45+ minute rides are the backbone of my $330 avg this winter and spring.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Ubermcbc said:


> My response was not pointing out particularly to the long trip on this thread. Good luck driving your new shiny car for pennies. I stick to my conclusion, you have 0% common sense. I haven't gone online since Nov 2018. It ain't worth it. Not even for short trips.


My car was shiny new in 2005!

If you can't keep a car, no matter how new, in a condition that it doesn't need a repair after a 200 mile trip, this gig is not now, or never has been for you.



Kenster said:


> And your opinion means what to me? Another self-important @@@@@@@. So that makes 3 in this thread. That's a pretty high ratio based on the number of responses in total.
> 
> Ignored. Simple concept.


You are arguing with someone who claims that after every 200 mile trip he must repair his car.

Think about that.

In my market, with my rates, with my car that somehow doesn't need repaired everyday? I'm taking that trip every chance I get.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Ubermcbc said:


> My response was not pointing out particularly to the long trip on this thread. Good luck driving your new shiny car for pennies. I stick to my conclusion, you have 0% common sense. I haven't gone online since Nov 2018. It ain't worth it. Not even for short trips.





Jake Air said:


> Dude. This is what Kenster said:
> "2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?"
> Yea, the OP -- who drives in a huge city (Chicago) said they could have made more money staying within the city limits of Chicago
> It was a very arrogant comment saying that to a driver who lives in one of the most expensive cities in the country.
> ...


I didn't see anything arrogant in what he said
It seemed an honest question to me. " so where is the loss?

And while you may not need my help. You need somebodies

So now we finally have it...... your answer to the ops question.

No

You won't take a long ride. But you won't take a short ride either. Seems to me that all you are trying to do is to convince yourself that you made the right decision to stop driving. And as misery loves company; you are trying to get us to quit too


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## shirleyujest (Jul 19, 2015)

nonononodrivethru said:


> 4.5 hours. $90 after gas.
> 
> $20 an hour.
> 
> ...


You haven't figured out yet that surges are over?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

EphLux said:


> This is why I say Uber has to die! $0.49 a mile is highly unethical.


I'd settle for Uber taking less than their usual 60% cut of the fare. On a $5 minimum fare, I get to keep $2.02...Uber gets the remaining $3.

It should be more like I get $4, and Uber gets $1. They don't drive the car, fill up the tank, or maintain it. Why are they getting 60% of the money for doing so very little in the process?


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## 80sDude (Jul 20, 2015)

No way in hell would I take that ride. 260+ miles for 120 bucks ? You people are debating the answer?


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Ubermcbc said:


> Majority of the drivers who buy car, they buy cars on finance, am i right or wrong? If anyone getting a car on 6-8% interest rates, *by the time they are done of their payments, they end up paying for 2 cars*.


$25,000 Loan at 6 years and 8% interest = $6,560 in interest paid.
$25,000 Loan at 6 years and 26.36% interest = $25,000 in interest paid.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

80sDude said:


> No way in hell would I take that ride. 260+ miles for 120 bucks ? You people are debating the answer?


Reread the question. At his rates, I doubt it, in my market, with my rates? Each and every time it's offered.


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## Firefly333 (Jan 24, 2017)

The OP should have longhauled through Milwaukee using 294 then 94 to Madison, which would have added $15 to the driver payout. That withstanding, I still wouldn't have done that trip at base. It would have required a decent surge and an upfront payment of at least $50 for me to even think about doing that trip, especially at 1130 at night.

The question remains, how much did the pax pay for this trip?


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## 80sDude (Jul 20, 2015)

Dumb ants in any market. Uber is meant for big city markets. Driving 20 minutes away for pickups so little Johnny can take his fishing poles home is totally out of the question. 

You guys are not making $$ despite what your brain is telling you.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

I drive in Madison. We get $0.87/mile. I'd do a trip to Ohare in a heartbeat. It ends up being about $15/hr after expenses which is better than I can do much of the year in Madison.

I have done trips from MSN to Appleton, downtown Milwaukee to ORD, a couple from Madison to Milwaukee, and several from MSN to Wisconsin Dells. I do them when I have the time, tip or not. Very easy mileage on the car.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Ubermcbc said:


> I am a troll but against the guber. Lol.
> 
> How long have been driving? If you have work for these rideshare companies from the beginning, then try to convince me that I am wrong. I am 100% positive you didn't read my initial argument from this thread. Read the whole entire thread.


I've been driving for 55 years, driving for hire 18 months

And I have read your posts

I get it that some folks have not been able to make Uber work for them. I'm surprised you can't make a go of it with expenses as low as 31 cents a mile.

I understand the difference between gross and net. And that difference is expenses. I figure mine at 35 cents a mile And I understand that dead miles can be the difference between making it with Uber and not

I manage ok with 50% dead miles but I do get an XL ride once in a while and I do ok with tips

So here's how I would answer Kenster's question. There is no loss and I don't usually do any better staying close to home

Whether I do long rides or short rides I average about 50% dead miles. So whether I drive one long ride or several short ones, makes little difference to me

And to your focus on expenses.... I believe a long high speed highway ride is easier on my car than several short in town rides


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Thread reopened. Feel free to disagree and debate, but please keep disagreements civil. Thank you.


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

reg barclay said:


> Thread reopened. Feel free to disagree and debate, but please keep disagreements civil. Thank you.


Ok boss. Lol.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Don't know what happened after my last post since I have the troll on ignore. But I suspect he tipped. 
Monitor probably acted wisely


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## SamInLasVegas (May 22, 2016)

nonononodrivethru said:


> 4.5 hours. $90 after gas.
> 
> $20 an hour.
> 
> ...


$90 in gas for driving 270 miles? What are you driving, a Winnebago?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

SamInLasVegas said:


> $90 in gas for driving 270 miles? What are you driving, a Winnebago?


It says $90 AFTER gas. I'm assuming that means the net profit for the ride was $90...not that the fuel expense was $90.


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## 125928 (Oct 5, 2017)

touberornottouber said:


> It's just unbelieveable that the company seems to think this is acceptable.


It is acceptable because people continue to drive at those rate.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

oldfart said:


> I've been driving for 55 years, driving for hire 18 months
> 
> And I have read your posts
> 
> ...


Highway miles are much easier on your car than city miles and fuel economy is as well.


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## travis bickel (Jan 17, 2019)

metal_orion said:


> I should have known better and not have wasted my time on an out of state trip. Basically there is not compensation for doing this and drivers pretty much get paid less than the actual mileage of the trip. Never again!
> 
> I would have scored better by just driving in the city.
> View attachment 323144
> View attachment 323145


I did a 3 hour ride and got stuck at the destination. When I tried to go to the local airport staging area using the Uber app it sent me to a tunnel I went around that airport five times and finally decided to say f****** and go home I wound up losing money on the day after doing all the math over and over again it's a f****** lose-lose. It's really similar to a f****** Ponzi scheme


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

BigRedDriver said:


> Highway miles are much easier on your car than city miles and fuel economy is as well.


My last vehicle I drove RS in for 23 months It had 40,000 ish on the odo when I put it to work. It was a 2014 in very good shape and paid off. I just sold it with 118,000 on the clock and still in great shape for $12,500. AWD 7 seater with full records. I average $23 a trip and 14 rides a day, mostly freeway miles. I rarely get caught in the scrabble around town.


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## CaptainAmerica (May 18, 2019)

metal_orion said:


> I should have known better and not have wasted my time on an out of state trip. Basically there is not compensation for doing this and drivers pretty much get paid less than the actual mileage of the trip. Never again!
> 
> I would have scored better by just driving in the city.
> View attachment 323144
> View attachment 323145


Driving any form of taxi/rideshare and making less than $35/h on average is not worth it. 
No matter your market, never let anyone take advantage of you!!!


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## Dome (Feb 10, 2019)

metal_orion said:


> I should have known better and not have wasted my time on an out of state trip. Basically there is not compensation for doing this and drivers pretty much get paid less than the actual mileage of the trip. Never again!
> 
> I would have scored better by just driving in the city.
> View attachment 323144
> View attachment 323145


Who pays the return toll(s)?


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

CaptainAmerica said:


> Driving any form of taxi/rideshare and making less than $35/h on average is not worth it.
> No matter your market, never let anyone take advantage of you!!!


Sure it can be. Especially in areas that have low cost of living. Those living in areas with housing costs, utility costs and gas prices that are shamefully high? Probably not.


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## Dome (Feb 10, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> I see post after post about people getting hung up on hourly pay. It is a worker mentality not a business owner mentality. Workers want more pay per hour. Business owners want more profits per goods/service in this case profits per mile.


I say the same thing...


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## rh7744 (Feb 4, 2019)

I've only done one long distance trip and it was only about 45 miles. I live in the desert SW so outside of the cities, there isn't much population. Of course, I had to drive all the way back on my own dime. I determined that I would decline all long distance trips after that.


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## tc49821 (Oct 26, 2017)

BigRedDriver said:


> Sure it can be. Especially in areas that have low cost of living. Those living in areas with housing costs, utility costs and gas prices that are shamefully high? Probably not.


I get not letting yourself get screwed. Especially like the other person said if someone lives in an area w a low cost of living. Some guy making 11 hr as a cashier, would be good if he making 18 hr after expense. The issue is a lot of drivers don't take in to account wear and tear. They really make 9hr not 18hr.

Now 18 hr in a cheap town in flordia ,goes a lot further than making 18hr in nyc.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

rkozy said:


> Better than the $0.4896/mile I'm getting in my market.


Less than the IRS deduction.
Adding insult to injury.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Less than the IRS deduction.
> Adding insult to injury.


Soon all US markets will be less than 55 cents per mile.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

No Prisoners said:


> Soon all US markets will be less than 55 cents per mile.


That is why I only drive black and SUV.


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> That is why I only drive black and SUV.


How long you think it will last in black and suv? If the pax can get a ride in a decent or possibly in a select service car with the x rates, why they will keep ordering 3x-4x more expensive service. If the x rates goes further down, it will effect everyone. Pax are extremely cheap. Unless you have loyal die hard private clientele.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Ubermcbc said:


> How long you think it will last in black and suv? If the pax can get a ride in a decent or possibly in a select service car with the x rates, why they will keep ordering 3x-4x more expensive service. If the x rates goes further down, it will effect everyone. Pax are extremely cheap. Unless you have loyal die hard private clientele.


I am blessed with loyal customers.
60% of my business is private livery, maybe more.


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

SamInLasVegas said:


> $90 in gas for driving 270 miles? What are you driving, a Winnebago?


Hooray for reading comprehension skills!


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

how much did uber make ?


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

When I drove I would have taken it. better to make almost $30 an hour minus gas than $2.40 an hour minus gas if you only have one short trip an hour. Or nothing an hour sitting my the phone at a moments notice on call for free.


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Lee239 said:


> When I drove I would have taken it. better to make almost $30 an hour minus gas than $2.40 an hour minus gas if you only have one short trip an hour. Or nothing an hour sitting my the phone at a moments notice on call for free.


Bird in hand much better than two in the bush.


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## The Uber Guru Sydney (May 20, 2019)

metal_orion said:


> I should have known better and not have wasted my time on an out of state trip. Basically there is not compensation for doing this and drivers pretty much get paid less than the actual mileage of the trip. Never again!
> 
> I would have scored better by just driving in the city.
> View attachment 323144
> View attachment 323145


In the sydney market once I go 35 miles in any direction I can't get a ping for a fare back
I have seen evidence that not only do Uber pay different rates in different countries (a given)
But that they pay different rates in states within the same country?
Anyway the reason I chose to comment

Recently I got a fare from Sydney to beyond Sydney's borders
The trip one way was about 100 minutes ,the Uber fare before their cut was about $355 Aus
The distance was 77 km one way( 48 miles )my earnings was $277
While I was up there I got a $6 fare a $5 fare and $130 fare **only because I was the only car in the region
So Uber bent the rules
Now had I come straight back after trip #1 .....3 hours and 100 miles still would have earned me $277 ($92/hr)

The fact I got 3 more fares ,I earned $400 in 4 hours and made it back to the city($100/hr)

My question is :
If I can earn $100 Aus per hour over 4 hours

How can UBER justify sending you on your fare for $121
Surely they must realise that either their algorithym is wrong ,or they shouldn't be offering such a fare
Clearly Uber stop caring after their 25% take
I love long trips but what they paid you is ridiculous


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

The Uber Guru Sydney said:


> In the sydney market once I go 35 miles in any direction I can't get a ping for a fare back
> I have seen evidence that not only do Uber pay different rates in different countries (a given)
> But that they pay different rates in states within the same country?
> Anyway the reason I chose to comment
> ...


Short answer: people drive for the lower rate.

A bit of background, If you made $400 AUD, that is around $270 USD. The gap is still there, but not as great as it appears without the exchange rate.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

metal_orion said:


> I should have known better and not have wasted my time on an out of state trip. Basically there is not compensation for doing this and drivers pretty much get paid less than the actual mileage of the trip. Never again!
> 
> I would have scored better by just driving in the city.
> View attachment 323144
> View attachment 323145


Don't beat yourself up, happens to everyone until all learn. That's exactly why uber lyft must constantly recruit new drivers who will take all kinds of trips. Essentially is the law of diminishing returns oversaturating markets. 
This is one of the major flaws in their business model as companies must offer incentives to attract new drivers. 
Experienced drivers eventually become unprofitable for the companies.


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## The Uber Guru Sydney (May 20, 2019)

QUOTE="Matt Uterak, post: 5049606, member: 22434"]
Short answer: people drive for the lower rate.

A bit of background, If you made $400 AUD, that is around $270 USD. The gap is still there, but not as great as it appears without the exchange rate.
[/QUOTE]
$270 in 4 hours about 120 Mles still sounds good


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## metal_orion (May 14, 2015)

I am not a new driver I had been driving uber for more than 4 years, but I decided to take my chances on that trip because I'd never done a long trip like that. Clearly I learned my lesson. I know we all complain about uber and their shitty practices, but yet most of us we are still here for personal choice or some other reason. Obviously this company could improve if they wanted to, but I highly doubt there are going to be any reasonable changes to improve the drivers pay since they went ipo and more likely as a corporate entity more likely they will want to satisfy their shareholders.

Well if this isn't new for some of you and for those that is this very likely will trigger you or outright piss you off.

What we make from O'hare to downtown in Chicago cabbies get paid that on just one trip to Rosemont which is nomore than 3 miles away. And not to mention if you are going somewhere far that isn't on that list let's say Madison, Wisconsin just multiply the trip miles time 4.5.



FLKeys said:


> ...and this has always been my argument about people concentrating on hourly pay. I concentrate on earnings per mile including dead miles. Now depending on what the OP's cost per mile is he most likely still made a profit. The question is could he have made more of a profit by doing a higher quantity of short trips in this time spent on the long trip? I don't know his market and the average pings per hour.
> 
> In my market I do take the 45+ trips with dead return miles. Why, because in the 2 hours that trip takes I may not get another ping.


Yes, the Chicago market is more profitable by staying local and doing short trips. On an average night starting from the airport going into the city pretending you immediately get a trip without waiting at the lot you make a 100 in 4 hours. Because it can be a good little boost a trip from the airport if you don't have to wait a long for a ping.


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## metal_orion (May 14, 2015)

UberBeemer said:


> So did you negotiate a return trip surcharge?
> 
> I would ask for at least $40. Or you might ask tgem to add an additional stop in rockford, so you keep the meter going that long.


Great idea. Too bad I didn't think of that. Although who knows what they would have said they were some chinese college students with heavy accents. Not sure if they would have agreed.



Merc7186 said:


> I am curious as to what the rider paid..,,I bet you it was easily $160...which I would have done it for $140 in cash or venmo


This sounds like a good idea. But do you know if they can pull back the money after the money or transaction was completed?



Kenster said:


> I live in the suburbs an hour north of NYC and most of the trips here aren't short trips from drop-offs to the next pickup. We get paid pickup premiums when the pickup is over 10 minutes and that happens quite frequently. UberX here gets $0.81 base fare, $0.705 per mile & $0.18 per min.


That was sort of my idea what would happen if I accepted a long trip like that. Obviously uber had not thought of that in other markets because there is no pressure to do so. How convenient!



WindyCityAnt said:


> Omg! From ORD to Madison is a long haul back for sure!!!! 120$ is peanuts! I won't do long hauls unless surged, then they balance out the earnings.
> 
> Did you check the fare charged from Uber?
> 
> ...





WindyCityAnt said:


> Omg! From ORD to Madison is a long haul back for sure!!!! 120$ is peanuts! I won't do long hauls unless surged, then they balance out the earnings.
> 
> Did you check the fare charged from Uber?
> 
> ...





njn said:


> Sure, rates are fine as is.
> 
> *The current rates for Uber's Jersey Shore services are as follows:*
> 
> UberX. Base Fare: $2.40. Per Minute: $0.16. Per Mile: $1.70. Cancellation Fee: $5. ...


This sound sort of decent or depending on the city layout. But i sure would love seeing those pax paying extra when they ask to stop at a friends house to pick something pr someone up. One time i had an idiot lady who went to the freaking mail office and stole almost an hour of my time. She had her daughter waiting inside my car while she went in the mail office ?



TPAMB said:


> I had one of those recently. 2 actually. One was an X the other a Select. Neither tipped despite an $80 and $130 total. I ended up staying at the destination city, 2 hours and 75 miles away, as it is the biggest tourst attraction in my state. Worked the same method I use in my work city. Made about as much as I normally would so I was glad not to dead head it back. The ride home was about 2x as long as usual. If it was to a dead area, I would have likely canceled.


The reason i didn't keep driving and went back home empty handed was because I'm a worker at the airport and i had to be back home at least around 4 am if I was gonna make it to work that same day around noon.



LIsuberman said:


> the question not brought up is - did the rider tip you in cash ?


Nope, Chinese college students. That is pretty self explanatory.



Amos69 said:


> Yes, in our market ( Seattle) Most 45+ do not take us out of market, and when they do its very rare that it's 30 minutes back to a workable situation. 45+ minute rides are the backbone of my $330 avg this winter and spring.


Usually it is the same. It's just that it was a late at night trip from the airport which it was obvious for me to have figured out since there's absolutely no traffic anywhere at that time.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Title of thread misleading

Please change to 
"Every Uber trip is a disappointment"


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Juggalo9er said:


> Title of thread misleading
> 
> Please change to
> "Every Uber trip is a disappointment"


I often wonder if there isn't a contingent of hate shouters that are being funded by someone just like the Goober crew is paid by Goober to say nice things.

I would wager less than 3% of my fares are disappointing, and more than 50% are pretty damn good and fun. ( Good = $$)


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Amos69 said:


> I often wonder if there isn't a contingent of hate shouters that are being funded by someone just like the Goober crew is paid by Goober to say nice things.
> 
> I would wager less than 3% of my fares are disappointing, and more than 50% are pretty damn good and fun. ( Good = $$)


Uber's business model inherently flawed. Burned through $20 billion in 10 years and no clear path to profitability. Growth receding as losses increasing. Facing inevitable regulatory issues that will accelerate its demise. Caught in deminishing returns debacle. Scam on investors

This is why uber had to go public so Softbank could cash out. So desperate that it pledged its uber stock for $4 billion non recourse loan from Goldman. Softbank couldn't wait for end of restricted period taking risk of Uber's stock dropping further.

https://www.ccn.com/softbank-flops-ceo-exposes-bitcoin-loss/amp?__twitter_impression=true


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Amos69 said:


> I often wonder if there isn't a contingent of hate shouters that are being funded by someone just like the Goober crew is paid by Goober to say nice things.
> 
> I would wager less than 3% of my fares are disappointing, and more than 50% are pretty damn good and fun. ( Good = $$)


You don't make .605 and some .12 a minute after Uber takes their cut... Give it time


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

No Prisoners said:


> Uber's business model inherently flawed. Burned through $20 billion in 10 years and no clear path to profitability. Growth receding as losses increasing. Facing inevitable regulatory issues that will accelerate its demise. Caught in deminishing returns debacle. Scam on investors
> 
> This is why uber had to go public so Softbank could cash out. So desperate that it pledged its uber stock for $4 billion non recourse loan from Goldman. Softbank couldn't wait for end of restricted period taking risk of Uber's stock dropping further.
> 
> https://www.ccn.com/softbank-flops-ceo-exposes-bitcoin-loss/amp?__twitter_impression=true


Thanks for the refresher, but I am far from new. I am well aware of the business inadequacies that both Goober and Gryft are built upon, and their incomprehensible inability to make profit. That has nothing to do with the statement I made.



Juggalo9er said:


> You don't make .605 and some .12 a minute after Uber takes their cut... Give it time


Well sure, obviously if my rides were not profitable I would feel differently about them ( the rides not the RS companies) but for every one of you on this board there are three who do not find every ride disappointing. Every one of you is matched by about 1/4 of a RS employee troll. The 10 / 80 /10 rule is very in effect on this board.

When this no longer amuses me and makes me money I will cease to do it. At this point in the Seattle market it is still possible to make money.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

metal_orion said:


> I should have known better and not have wasted my time on an out of state trip. Basically there is not compensation for doing this and drivers pretty much get paid less than the actual mileage of the trip. Never again!
> 
> I would have scored better by just driving in the city.
> View attachment 323144
> View attachment 323145


Oooooo $$$!!!!

$.27 Long Pickup f ee !$

Impressive!


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Amos69 said:


> Thanks for the refresher, but I am far from new. I am well aware of the business inadequacies that both Goober and Gryft are built upon, and their incomprehensible inability to make profit. That has nothing to do with the statement I made.
> 
> 
> Well sure, obviously if my rides were not profitable I would feel differently about them ( the rides not the RS companies) but for every one of you on this board there are three who do not find every ride disappointing. Every one of you is matched by about 1/4 of a RS employee troll. The 10 / 80 /10 rule is very in effect on this board.
> ...


Can we give kudos on this board?
Can someone tell me where the kudos button is?
This poster possesses more knowledge than the sum of the board and enlightens us with their presence!


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Amos69 said:


> Thanks for the refresher, but I am far from new. I am well aware of the business inadequacies that both Goober and Gryft are built upon, and their incomprehensible inability to make profit. That has nothing to do with the statement I made.
> 
> 
> Well sure, obviously if my rides were not profitable I would feel differently about them ( the rides not the RS companies) but for every one of you on this board there are three who do not find every ride disappointing. Every one of you is matched by about 1/4 of a RS employee troll. The 10 / 80 /10 rule is very in effect on this board.
> ...


Do you accept any X rides without surge?


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

No Prisoners said:


> Do you accept any X rides without surge?


Wait....
What's a surge


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

No Prisoners said:


> Do you accept any X rides without surge?


Absolutely! Surge is a thing of the past. Today featured about 45 total minutes of surge that I noticed. Two separate occasions in different places. If I were to only take surge runs this year my total gross income would be around $5,000. Yes there are good surge runs around (good ?) Flat rate is clearly a wage cut. But surge is not the beast it used to be ( unsustainable).

Quick look at 2019. Just less than 5% of my runs have had surge on them. But winter is over and there is more surge here in the summer, that percentage should increase.

Surge hunting is not my game, I often flee from surge areas as they can be unworkable. I refuse to get stuck in traffic.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Amos69 said:


> Absolutely! Surge is a thing of the past. Today featured about 45 total minutes of surge that I noticed. Two separate occasions in different places. If I were to only take surge runs this year my total gross income would be around $5,000. Yes there are good surge runs around (good ?) Flat rate is clearly a wage cut. But surge is not the beast it used to be ( unsustainable).
> 
> Quick look at 2019. Just less than 5% of my runs have had surge on them. But winter is over and there is more surge here in the summer, that percentage should increase.
> 
> Surge hunting is not my game, I often flee from surge areas as they can be unworkable. I refuse to get stuck in traffic.


Sir any X rides without surge never profitable unless substantial tip. It's basically subsidizing riders and uber's operations. 
Not judging you just stating a fact. Anyhow, happy ubering and Godspeed.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

No Prisoners said:


> Sir any X rides without surge never profitable unless substantial tip. It's basically subsidizing riders and uber's operations.
> Not judging you just stating a fact. Anyhow, happy ubering and Godspeed.


Saying that short rides are not profitable is saying that you break even or lose money on each short ride

First of all that's just not true. But more than that, I don't think you should look at this thing one ride at a time. You may have a bad ride or even a bad day or bad week but ithings tend to even out over a month

The fact is that short rides don't lose money at least I'm my market where we are paid a base fare of 76 cents; 76 cents a mile; and 10 cents a min. So a 2 mile trip like the one I've copied below pays $1.60/ mile. At the end of the month my paid miles to total miles ratio is right at 50%. So applying that ratio to this short ride works out to 80 cents a mile. My costs are higher than most (I drive a Ford Explorer and I buy commercial insurance). I 
figure costs at 25 cents a mile (10 cents more if you count my reserve fund for repair and replacement)

So I'm making 55 cents a mile (45 if you count the reserve fund. I don't count the reserve fund, because I already have enough set aside to replace the car)

Bottom like is that Im making money on the short rides, and I bet you are too


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

oldfart said:


> Saying that short rides are not profitable is saying that you break even or lose money on each short ride


Last weekend I had a long trip that took me to an area that I have always wanted to test the waters in but it was not worth driving 50+ miles to test knowing I had to drive another 50+ miles back most likely without a PAX.

Since I did not know the market at all I looked at the rider app and saw a cluster of drivers in one area so I headed to the other end of the island that did not have any other drivers. If I was guessing I would have thought this end of the island would be a better spot any way.

I did 7 minimum fare rides in 45 minutes. Counting the 3 miles I drove to get to that end of the island I drove 11.25 miles. Grossed $36.96 before tips and $45.96 with tips. That comes to $4.09 per mile. I would gladly take those short trips all night long. The other ants were banking on getting the 3-4 mile trips to this area and dead heading back. Sure they made more per trip, but they also had a lot of miles to make more per trip plus they were all pooling for the few rides that were coming in. Where I was getting stacked pings at times taking people hopping form restaurant/bar to restaurant/bar all less than a mile apart.

Testing the waters ended when I got a ride that took me more than half way back to my home area. I just could not get my self to drive 30 miles away from my home market late at night to trust I would continue getting nice rides. I did pick up another ride 8 miles into my way back that took me into the heart of one of my prime areas. Needless to say it was a rare day for my area where I was busy most of the night and racked in good numbers.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> In my market I do take the 45+ trips with dead return miles.


You have to realize, you get 2-3x per mile than 90% or more of the driver in the country. Would you blindly except those 45+ pings if you were getting Miami rates?


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

Im happy to do long trips so long as it's within my market. Out of town trips, I require a gratuity of $0.25/mi (my actual vehicle per mile costs). 160 miles? That's $40. I've learned this is necessary the hard way. You MUST cover your deadmiles home.

I don't tell them my cost but I'll round the math in my head real quick once I see the destination.

Typical conversation:
"I'm happy to drive you from Houston to Austin, but for out of town trips I require a $40 gratuity. I don't like doing it but Uber/Lyft just don't pay enough to drive that far from home. If you're not comfortable with that you can try the next driver and I won't charge you for the cancellation."


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

oldfart said:


> Saying that short rides are not profitable is saying that you break even or lose money on each short ride
> 
> First of all that's just not true. But more than that, I don't think you should look at this thing one ride at a time. You may have a bad ride or even a bad day or bad week but ithings tend to even out over a month
> 
> ...


Sir what really counts is your own opinion on your status. Whatever I think or anyone else is irrelevant, we don't walk in your shoes.
Personally I don't consider making anything less than $1.35 per mile profitable, hence my acceptance ratio with Uber always below 5%. Only reason why is 80% with lyft is because it's always on Lux only rides.
I won't do any regular rides without substantial surge and mostly doing private rides when I drive. The only purpose uber lyft serve for me is to meet potential private clients.
However, I admit that I may at times over emphasize my opinion on the fallacy of taking X pings without substantial surges specially involving long trips. Maybe because it's precisely what allows uber to maintain the status quo exploiting drivers to subsidize its operations.
Nevertheless, I do look forward to hopefully meet you when I'm down by the keys.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> You have to realize, you get 2-3x per mile than 90% or more of the driver in the country. Would you blindly except those 45+ pings if you were getting Miami rates?


I completely understand that and that is why my signature says what it does. Also when I drive in the Miami market I have a completely different plan of attack than I do in my home market.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

No Prisoners said:


> Sir any X rides without surge never profitable unless substantial tip. It's basically subsidizing riders and uber's operations.
> Not judging you just stating a fact. Anyhow, happy ubering and Godspeed.


Thanks man and good luck to you as well.

MBA Foster school of business 1991. My math is just fine. Here in Seattle market we still get paid reasonable rates. My first ride most days pays between $45 and $130 and my ride average is $22 +. Every market is different but I still regularly pull $70 X rides that only take an hour to complete and lead me directly to another $22-40 ride with no waiting.

I wouldn't drive if it wasn't profitable. This ain't no damn charity


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## Wingzking (Apr 30, 2019)

Kenster said:


> 2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?


Are you a driver? It's not $30/hr. Gas/Tolls not added in on the way back and oh yea......20% tax on the 1099.


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## Maximus7 (May 29, 2019)

Kenster said:


> 2 hours out, 2 hours back = 4 hour trip. Making $30 per hour. Where's the loss? You used to making more than that?


This is a very simplicistic thinking 
Riding is Mileage+Gas+Time and all kind of hazards from the rider to all the surrounding back and forth


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Maximus7 said:


> This is a very simplicistic thinking
> Riding is Mileage+Gas+Time and all kind of hazards from the rider to all the surrounding back and forth


It's obvious that the poster was talking about gross income. We all know we have expenses. Even new guys know that. If they don't know that they figure it out the first time they buy gas

A simple yes or no or I don't know Would do the trick


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## TheHunter (Sep 19, 2017)

metal_orion said:


> I should have known better and not have wasted my time on an out of state trip. Basically there is not compensation for doing this and drivers pretty much get paid less than the actual mileage of the trip. Never again!
> 
> I would have scored better by just driving in the city.
> View attachment 323144
> View attachment 323145


Well, well, well, I see you get $0.64 per mile? Here in LA we bask in the glory of $0.60 and going down.


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## Andocrates (Jun 8, 2018)

Thank God the rider was a big tipper. In my market I rarely make $127 over 7 hours - only on the weekends. PLUS a long trip is something different that breaks the monotony.

You might, next time, talk to your rider about dead heading home and just ask them to pay for the gas. (130 miles @ 25 mpg - I would suggest $20 for the tip)


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Wingzking said:


> Are you a driver? It's not $30/hr. Gas/Tolls not added in on the way back and oh yea......20% tax on the 1099.


If your paying 20% tax on the 1099, your doing something wrong.


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## Andocrates (Jun 8, 2018)

IRS deduction is $0.51 per mile,


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Andocrates said:


> IRS deduction is $0.51 per mile,


$0.58 for 2019
$0.545 for 2018
$0.535 for 2017

Think the last time it was $0.51 was in first half of 2011


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## Andocrates (Jun 8, 2018)

$0.51 must be what Uber pays per mile in my market. (little rock)


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## TPAMB (Feb 13, 2019)

Andocrates said:


> IRS deduction is $0.51 per mile,


The optional standard tax deductible IRS mileage rates for the use of your car, van, pickup truck, or panel truck during 2019 are: 58 cents per mile driven for business purposes. 20 cents per mile driven for medical or moving purposes. 14 cents per mile driven in service of charitable organizations.


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## RenoGirl (Jun 6, 2019)

I just completed a long distance trip yesterday. Reno, Nevada to Bozeman, Montana - 831 miles. Total payout to me is $843 which is currently not available. It took about $220 in gas and 13.5 hours to drive. Upon completion of the trip Uber removes the ride from your account for review, So that you don't have access to the money. Being that I only had so much in funds to complete this trip without the help of Uber, I could not afford to get a hotel room for the night. I stopped at a rest area for about an hour and turned around and came back, another 13.5 hours. The trip amount did post into the app last night, but I am still unable to cash it out. The error message is "Unable to cashout, try again later" for about 16 hours now. My advice is not to do long distance trip unless you are comfortable enough with your finance to loan Uber money, because essentially that is what you are doing. This is the second larger amount locked in the account. The last was a ride for 256 miles. That money was held 6 days.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Long distance is my favourite I always take them. I’m registered in all the markets around me so I can work anywhere I can get sent which is great because I love a change of scenery. I eventually have to dead head back anyway but it’s still beneficial to me to work in different cities every day.

Second thing is it’s a lot more work and annoyance to do an assload of PUs and DOs instead of autopiloting down the highway.

Even if it pays less it’s still better for me overall. The dead miles don’t even really matter because it’s the about the same ratio of dead miles in city anyway so...

Renogirl - do you not have a $300 cap on rides? Every market I’ve seen has that cap.


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## RenoGirl (Jun 6, 2019)

Im guessing there is not a cap. My pay for the ride was $843.
You Receive

Base Fare
$1.50
Distance (831.64 mi × $0.8700/mi)
$723.52
Time (784.70 min × $0.1500/min)
$117.70
Wait Time (3.28333333333 min × $0.1875/min)
$0.61
Fare Adjustment
$0.01

*Total
$843.34*


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I have only had one trip long enough to flag the hold by Uber, at the time I was not aware they did this and I just saw the amount adjusted to $0.00. I sent a dispute to the adjustment letting them know that I have video recording of the trip both inside and out. They released the funds the next day. Did not try instant pay, not worth the cost to me.


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## TPAMB (Feb 13, 2019)

Wow! That’s one helluva ride!


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## Kevin.G (May 10, 2019)

Andocrates said:


> You might, next time, talk to your rider about dead heading home and just ask them to pay for the gas. (130 miles @ 25 mpg - I would suggest $20 for the tip)


I do understand your logic here.... but....

If I were the pax and the driver ask me for a specific tip amount, anywhere along the trip... just prior to exiting his/her car.... I would say "No tip" _precisely_ because the driver had the audacity and/or a feeling of entitlement to dictate how much I should tip him/her. I would also rate them at 1 and leave the reason in comment area stating that I would not want this driver to pick me up again.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

No kidding, that's ridiculous. That's 26 hours in the car. Shouldn't be allowed without a hotel allowance or something to that effect.


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## Andocrates (Jun 8, 2018)

Kevin.G said:


> I do understand your logic here.... but....
> 
> If I were the pax and the driver ask me for a specific tip amount, anywhere along the trip... just prior to exiting his/her car.... I would say "No tip" _precisely_ because the driver had the audacity and/or a feeling of entitlement to dictate how much I should tip him/her. I would also rate them at 1 and leave the reason in comment area stating that I would not want this driver to pick me up again.


Yes but . . . The rider HAS to be aware that most drivers are going to refuse her, because she has most likely already been cancelled on.

The driver is under no obligation, even from Uber, to take a 5 hour ride at midnight.


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## ratethis (Jan 7, 2017)

I only take long trips like that if I’ve negotiated a return fee. It’s worked out every time, and in most cases I make more coming back with the return fee then Uber paid me.

Most (not all) passengers will pay you cash, the same amount as it cost them to get there, Uber gets none of this and it’s a big win.

Admittedly it took me a while to work up the courage to ask for this but realizing I’m in this to make money I’m NOT a “serving the community” monkey, makes it easier. Some pax will turn you down, that’s when you thank them, cancel the ride and wish them luck. 
Your contractors...you should act like it.


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## Uberisfuninlv (Mar 22, 2017)

Thank you for servicing the community. As a special way of saying thank you for your dedication, we are creating a badge in your honor. It is called the “Good Ant” badge. You should also see a $1 “Surge” bonus on your next ride.


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## LBC5.17 (May 19, 2019)

I would also ask myself if I would likely get a few rides heading home. I just had a 2 hr and 23 minute ride. Three total stops and some waiting for rider. I only made $63.32. I am still hoping the rider will add a tip. Your hourly wage was twice mine. I would be thrilled to have made over $100.



WindyCityAnt said:


> Omg! From ORD to Madison is a long haul back for sure!!!! 120$ is peanuts! I won't do long hauls unless surged, then they balance out the earnings.
> 
> Did you check the fare charged from Uber?
> 
> ...





Bus Bozo said:


> In my market we get 69 cents/mile, 24 cents/minute....$1/mile is doable. The $$/hour follow. This trip, coming in at about 49 cents/mile, is one I wouldn't touch....regardless of $$/hour.


You get 24 cents a minute? I only get 8.25 cents a minute.


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