# Two rides. $142.67 and $150. Lyft refuses to pay me for them, stating:



## Lorentz

"Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft’s payment systems."

Thing is the only fraud here is them arbitrarily not paying me. But let me not get ahead of myself. 

On May 4th I gave a ride two several students from Alabama A&M University to Birmingham Shuttleworth Airport. This makes sense the Huntsville international airport prices are so high that Lyft to Bham and a ticket to Chicago is cheaper than flying out of here, especially when several riders are splitting the ride share cost. This ride came to me via another driver who had carried them several times to airports to fly out but in the recent let's all switch to Lyft bit riders are doing they called him and said they are using Lyft and asked if he could take them. He said he drives for only Uber and messaged me and told me to head to a&m and if probably get a request for a trip to Bham. No problem. The trip goes without a hitch. I had to wait 3 days before Lyft verified the trip and paid me. 

Now on this past Saturday. I get a text from one of the guys who I carried to Bham. He asked if I'd mind another trip, this time Nashville , his sister now down with her school stuff here was returning to Chicago for mother's day. Not a problem. I go to Madison to the road they live on and wait for the request. I pick her up and drive her to Nashville. All went fine. I grabbed a trip in Nashville at the airport for another 30 dollars to 65s which is on my way and headed back home. As usual all my money is held in "we are currently reviewing the trip" limbo, some $280. On Monday I receive a message from Lyft as follows: 

"Date: May 13, 2017 04:44:59 am
Mileage: 126.88 miles 
Time: 113 minutes, 47 seconds

After further review with our risk team, we will be unable to honor the payout for the flagged trip in question. In addition, we will be offsetting a total of $142.67 from future earnings for previously prearranged ride(s). Please note, under the Terms of Service, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of Ride Fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft’s payment systems.

Moving forward, it is important to never prearrange rides with passengers as any attempt to defraud Lyft or Riders on the Lyft Platform or in connection with your provision of Services could put your account at risk of deactivation.

Alexander"

Woah hold up a minute. First of all nothing was misused. Definitely no fraud. Clearly Lyft didn't really think anything fraudulent had occurred I mean unless they have a habit of allowing people who are committing fraud to remain drivers, as I still to this day can sign in to drive. Except not only are they not paying me for the recent trip, they're deducting from my other funds from other trips, the payment from another trip they have already verified. It seems they can arbitrarily at any time decide that a trip, whether verified or not, is no longer mine and now I owe them. Since they had my funds in hock holding for verification, even 140 or so that was from other trips (and tips which I will mention in a moment). Is now theres to hold. 

Tips are protected. Not wages. Tips are the sole property of the recipient. I am this recipient not Lyft. Lyft does not have the right to take my tips as per FLSA. Even if I owe them money, tips are not part of the wages that are negotiable funds for alleviating that debt. This has been held time and time again. This is an aside but worth mentioning as it shows the lack of ethics and regard for the law beyond them simply hijacking my pay for the rides and service rendered. 


So I've been back and forth with them. Well more me than them. I messaged on Twitter and on Facebook. I was told that Alexander would get back to me. He did. Same message boilerplate as before:

"
We regret to inform you that after additional consideration we are unable to honor the payout for the aforementioned flagged trips. To reiterate, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft’s payment systems.

Moving forward, any attempt to defraud Lyft or Lyft riders, or in connection with your provision of services, could put your account at risk of deactivation

Alexander"

So basically it was no response. Just the same adlib fill in the blank. 

I asked for information about what leads then to believe misuse had occurred. I asked for what I could provide to show them that bo such fraud or misuse was present on any trip I've driven. I asked them to explain why I was being treated as if I'd done something wrong when I go out of my way to follow the rules and most assuredly have never maliciously, as they suggest, done anything to profit from some wrongdoing. 

It seems Lyft has the belief they can arbitrarily not pay a driver without any need for explanation. I messaged again after this last email and was told I would hear back from Alexander. I waited a few more days, going on 3 now, and I messaged them back on Facebook at which point I was told I would not be hearing any further that this ticket was closed and the decision final. I'm...I don't even know. I did nothing wrong except drive for Lyft.


----------



## Lelekm

Forget Alexander. Go on LinkedIn and decide which listed exec you're going send your certified letter to telling them how the company is defrauding drivers like you. Like their VP of Customer Experience and Trust (I kid you not). She's on there.


----------



## aJoe

So did they pay you and say they are taking it out of future earnings, if so just quit,

Did the customer dispute the ride?


----------



## Lorentz

I didn't consider direct contact. That may serve my purpose. I just don't see how they think it is okay to simply suggest I'd done wrong and not pay me with no ability to defend my position or even know what it is they suppose I did wrong. Communication is key here and it lacks seriously. 

With Uber you get about ten robo responses to tickets. But there's at least responses eventually. Here I get nothing but, wait for a response, and lol no more responses it's final...


----------



## Lelekm

Lorentz said:


> I didn't consider direct contact. That may serve my purpose. I just don't see how they think it is okay to simply suggest I'd done wrong and not pay me with no ability to defend my position or even know what it is they suppose I did wrong. Communication is key here and it lacks seriously.
> 
> With Uber you get about ten robo responses to tickets. But there's at least responses eventually. Here I get nothing but, wait for a response, and lol no more responses it's final...


For that kind of money? Yeah, I'd write a letter and mail it (email if you can find or guess the exec email, of course). It's worth a shot and will hopefully get you somewhere. Your letter is mostly written already!


----------



## Lorentz

aJoe

Well the problem is they put all your money on hold. Not just the trip in question. I had already another 140 or so which they just took. So I'm out a total of 300~. I couldn't get my money from the prior trips or those after I did until I stopped when I got that response stating they were going to take my money.

Did the rider complain...don't think so.


----------



## aJoe

But if the customers paid what's their gripe that your prearranged the rides? You still got the ping so who cares

What are you not telling us, I dont' really understand your story.


----------



## sUBERu2u

This happened to me too. Don't ever expect to be able to use instant pay for long trips. They will hold it and any other fares they owe you for 2-3 days so they can earn interest on it. Nothing to do with fraud. That's just thier excuse. Evil company playing evil games with us (just like, on my experience, Uber, Turo, and Hyrecar)


----------



## Kodyhead

Lyft considers prearranged rides fraud i went through the same issue, i try my best to switch them to uber. I am sure uber considers it fraud as well but not policed like lyft. If necessary to take lyft just don't be near the pax and be down the street so it looks "organic" as lyft calls it but risk deactivation. 

Although i get some nice premier rides from time to time, i can go without lyft because they simply blow


----------



## aJoe

Kodyhead said:


> Lyft considers prearranged rides fraud i went through the same issue, i try my best to switch them to uber. I am sure uber considers it fraud as well but not policed like lyft. If necessary to take lyft just don't be near the pax and be down the street so it looks "organic" as lyft calls it but risk deactivation.
> 
> Although i get some nice premier rides from time to time, i can go without lyft because they simply blow


Why is it fraud, if the customer pays does Lyft keep the money because they claim fraud, that's fraud on their part.


----------



## Lorentz

Prearrangement is what Lyft does. Lyft and Uber alike are prearrangement TNCs. How does that make sense. The whole reason this was even done is because they fly out like this often and in the past Theyve had to request different drivers, with Uber , up to 5 or 6 times as many are part time and family drivers who didn't have time. Up to even missing a flight once. The other driver who usually carries them is Uber only and they now use Lyft.... You can't simply say it's fraud because of where I was asked to park my car prior to them requesting the ride via the app, and there is literally nothing in their tos about this I can find.


----------



## sellkatsell44

Lorentz said:


> "Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems."
> 
> Thing is the only fraud here is them arbitrarily not paying me. But let me not get ahead of myself.
> 
> On May 4th I gave a ride two several students from Alabama A&M University to Birmingham Shuttleworth Airport. This makes sense the Huntsville international airport prices are so high that Lyft to Bham and a ticket to Chicago is cheaper than flying out of here, especially when several riders are splitting the ride share cost. *This ride came to me via another driver who had carried them several times to airports to fly out* but in the recent let's all switch to Lyft bit riders are doing they called him and said they are using Lyft and asked if he could take them. He said he drives for only Uber and messaged me and told me to head to a&m and if probably get a request for a trip to Bham. No problem. The trip goes without a hitch. I had to wait 3 days before Lyft verified the trip and paid me.


I would first check with those riders (you have their #s right? maybe even email hopefully?) and see if they got a credit on their cards. I would also check with the driver that hooked you two up...because something doesn't add up.

How did the riders request? Was it via text or calls? Because you said the other driver messaged you..

I don't know if lyft allows prearranged trips (I'm assuming yes?) and I don't know if him passing it off to you would violate anything but regardless. you got the trip done and the riders are legit done and lyft collected a fee for doing NOTHING as this was all prearranged.

I don't think lyft would keep the money though.

The only thing I could think of (and it is why I say check with the riders/other driver) is that they said something on their end, that forced lyft to return the money to them, and therefore that is why lyft is not only not paying you for the second trip, but deducting what it already paid you for the first, because they had to return the funds to the riders.

I would start with that first, and then also see if (since you mentioned the tips part being taken too) if you could take them to court. I checked and they are registered to do business in Alabama as a foreign entity (registered in Delaware of course).


----------



## Kodyhead

aJoe said:


> Why is it fraud, if the customer pays does Lyft keep the money because they claim fraud, that's fraud on their part.


It isnt fraud as far as getting fined, going to jail or anything from law enforcement it is lyft that thinks this is fraud

I personally don't think anything is wrong with it and still and will continue to do it as i think it is the only way to be successful and be a full time driver, but lyft calls this fraud.

The use the phrase "must be organically through the system" so no gluten or transfats i imagine


----------



## Lorentz

sellkatsell44. The other driver is a good friend of mine. His trips with them via Uber have always gone off without a hitch. I trust him well. As for the riders they texted me and asked I be in the area as they had a flight and wanted to be sure they had a ride there. That was the extent of it. Unless the pax is lying about Lyft charging them and is just playing me. In which case I did send these texts to Lyft and they ignored them making no comment on it at all.


----------



## Spotscat

Read Section 17 - Dispute Resolution and Arbitration Agreement - in your Lyft Terms of Service.

Then send Alexander an email stating either refund my money, or else we take this to arbitration.


----------



## aJoe

Kodyhead said:


> It isnt fraud as far as getting fined, going to jail or anything from law enforcement it is lyft that thinks this is fraud
> 
> I personally don't think anything is wrong with it and still and will continue to do it as i think it is the only way to be successful and be a full time driver, but lyft calls this fraud.
> 
> The use the phrase "must be organically through the system" so no gluten or transfats i imagine


Fraud is cancelling the trip and doing it for cash which is what you should do next time, Lyft got their cut why should they care if the pax does not dispute the charge.


----------



## Lorentz

Kodyhead said:


> It isnt fraud as far as getting fined, going to jail or anything from law enforcement it is lyft that thinks this is fraud
> 
> I personally don't think anything is wrong with it and still and will continue to do it as i think it is the only way to be successful and be a full time driver, but lyft calls this fraud.
> 
> The use the phrase "must be organically through the system" so no gluten or transfats i imagine


Fraud - wrongful deception resulting in financial gain.

Key to this is deception. There was no deception. Of Lyft considers anything I did fraud they're wrong. There is no fraud. No deception. Nothing untoward or wrongful.


----------



## sellkatsell44

Lorentz said:


> sellkatsell44. The other driver is a good friend of mine. His trips with them via Uber have always gone off without a hitch. I trust him well. As for the riders they texted me and asked I be in the area as they had a flight and wanted to be sure they had a ride there. That was the extent of it. Unless the pax is lying about Lyft charging them and is just playing me. In which case I did send these texts to Lyft and they ignored them making no comment on it at all.


I assumed so (driver is a good friend of yours) but I just don't see Lyft holding the funds without the intent to eventually forward them back to the riders.

Maybe contact the riders and let them know what happened? Tell them you'd appreciate it if they tried contacting lyft too because that amount is not a small amount to sneeze at and you're just trying to make a living?


----------



## aJoe

You said something about tips are these $150 tips by any chance I still don't get your full story, only bits and pieces.


----------



## Kodyhead

I absolutely think in my case and most lyft just keeps the fare and tips for themselves but have no clue, we should not be held responsible if there is any fraud from the paxs end.

Again if there is prearranged ride situation on lyft do your best to switch them to uber, or be careful using lyft.

Unfortunately it also leads to the cash conversation as well.


----------



## Lorentz

aJoe said:


> You said something about tips are these $150 tips by any chance I still don't get your full story, only bits and pieces.


The tips portion is in relation to an aside on this. They're withholding tips and payments to cover their debt they've applied for an already verified and paid ride. I was just pointing out that as per FLSA (fair labor and standards act) tips are protected and the sole property of the recipient. As such then withholding those in lieu of this "debt" is unethical and not at all legal. Even if the debt were valid (it is not). It's not truly relevant to this situation, but something I'm seeing and find as well disturbing.


----------



## Disgusted Driver

First off, it seems clear to me that you should do future rides with a square reader of that works for them and toy are willing to accept the risk. Second, sending an email to an exec as sugested is a good idea, finally, yes, demand arbitration.


----------



## Lorentz

Is arbitration even viable. From what I read it's fairly clear that it tends to favor the client. I'll have to hunt his email down.


----------



## Disgusted Driver

Odds aren't good but better than nothing.


----------



## JBuzz826

One thing I recently heard of is the reservations of a ride share like uber and Lyft, a program or app called Uzurv or something like that? Anyways to me that would be pre arranged. 

I would see about escalating it further and higher up if they are holding the money owed to you. 

Best wishes and good luck


----------



## Jo3030

Keep on them on @AskLyft on Twitter til they pay you.
They shouldn't be able to do this...


----------



## Kodyhead

Jo3030 said:


> Keep on them on @AskLyft on Twitter til they pay you.
> They shouldn't be able to do this...


I dont have twitter, i tried on facebook but got banned somehow from posting on their page lol


----------



## elelegido

Small claims court. You performed the work for Lyft and payment is now due.


----------



## sanchez15

This is what I mean when I say Lyft is worse than Uber. They are complete jerk offs. First off for acting like they care about drivers and Uber doesnt. Secondly for lying to us in the app (not dedecuting 20% so drivers go around thinking they are making more). Thirdly for the app just outright sucking and Lyft making us wait a full 5m and then needing to call while double parked at high traffic times! Fourthly for completely robbery like this. I would be very surprised if Lyft did not run of with the money. 

LYFT SUCKS ASS!

Uber sucks too but this would NEVER happen with Uber. They for sure would make sure you and they got paid for these rides!!!


----------



## Kodyhead

sanchez15 said:


> This is what I mean when I say Lyft is worse than Uber. They are complete jerk offs. First off for acting like they care about drivers and Uber doesnt. Secondly for lying to us in the app (not dedecuting 20% so drivers go around thinking they are making more). Thirdly for the app just outright sucking and Lyft making us wait a full 5m and then needing to call while double parked at high traffic times! Fourthly for completely robbery like this. I would be very surprised if Lyft did not run of with the money.
> 
> LYFT SUCKS ASS!
> 
> Uber sucks too but this would NEVER happen with Uber. They for sure would make sure you and they got paid for these rides!!!


Uber doesn't make it easier doing prearranged rides either, there have been several times when i am clearly the closest car but they would give the request to a car 12-15 mins away.


----------



## sanchez15

Kodyhead said:


> Uber doesn't make it easier doing prearranged rides either, there have been several times when i am clearly the closest car but they would give the request to a car 12-15 mins away.


True, I had to drive to remote areas to do pre-arranged ride multiple times with Uber. I had no problems getting paid though.


----------



## Spotscat

elelegido said:


> Small claims court. You performed the work for Lyft and payment is now due.


I'm not a lawyer (nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn last night), so this isn't legal advice.

Section "G" of Part 17 about Arbitration Agreements states --

"This Arbitration Agreement shall not require arbitration of the following types of claims: (1) small claims actions brought on an individual basis that are within the scope of such small claims court's jurisdiction."

If it was me, I'd find a local lawyer and pay him/her for a 1/2 hour of time. Give them the Lyft TOS, tell them the story of what happened, and ask what my options are.


----------



## elelegido

Spotscat said:


> I'm not a lawyer (nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn last night), so this isn't legal advice.
> 
> Section "G" of Part 17 about Arbitration Agreements states --
> 
> "This Arbitration Agreement shall not require arbitration of the following types of claims: (1) small claims actions brought on an individual basis that are within the scope of such small claims court's jurisdiction."
> 
> If it was me, I'd find a local lawyer and pay him/her for a 1/2 hour of time. Give them the Lyft TOS, tell them the story of what happened, and ask what my options are.


The other option is to simply follow protocol - first put Lyft on notice that you're going to start legal action unless they pay, and then just go to the court, file the fee, submit the case and see where the chips fall.

Lyft still owes me around $400 in unpaid fares, but I will not take them to court until I am ready to quit for obvious reasons.


----------



## Lorentz

elelegido said:


> The other option is to simply follow protocol - first put Lyft on notice that you're going to start legal action unless they pay, and then just go to the court, file the fee, submit the case and see where the chips fall.
> 
> Lyft still owes me around $400 in unpaid fares, but I will not take them to court until I am ready to quit for obvious reasons.


Do be careful there are limitations on how long you can wait before you file action in small claims court which varies from District to District.


----------



## elelegido

Lorentz said:


> Do be careful there are limitations on how long you can wait before you file action in small claims court which varies from District to District.


Yeah, I may just end up having to take the hit if I don't quit Lyft in time. The money owed is from back when Lyft rounded down driver pay for each fare to the nearest dollar and pocketed the change. They've stopped doing that so at least their debt to me isn't going to increase due to it.


----------



## Matt Greentrees

I don't get the difference from waiting in front of a bar or in front of the collage. Your hoping for a ping. How is this fraud.


----------



## Jamesmiller

Simple solution dont do any prearranged rides. Ridesharing wasnt designed for that purpose therefore you did fraud the system


----------



## Kodyhead

Jamesmiller said:


> Simple solution dont do any prearranged rides. Ridesharing wasnt designed for that purpose therefore you did fraud the system


I agree for the most part but feel it is different on higher platforms, prearranged rides is a requirement to be successful in any market imo.



Matt Greentrees said:


> I don't get the difference from waiting in front of a bar or in front of the collage. Your hoping for a ping. How is this fraud.


I agree with you but again it is only fraud from lyfts point of view. It is funny because it actually leads to more fraud because even if you push uzurv which i do or simply just ask if you can take someone to ther airport the next day as you overhear their conversation, it actually brings up cash rides or square reader rides more lol

Similar to the pill mills they used to have down here where i think they said 80% of the oxy or other pain pills were sourced from south florida down here, so they shut them down, but everyone switched to heroin, and you can argue the problem is even worse now lol

If you are 1-2 mins away it will be tough for lyft to prove, so just be careful.


----------



## elelegido

Jamesmiller said:


> Simple solution dont do any prearranged rides. Ridesharing wasnt designed for that purpose therefore you did fraud the system


So how do you explain Lyft's prebooked rides feature? Are you saying that if Lyft prebooks a ride then it's not fraud, but if a driver does it then it is fraud? How does that work?

Fraud means theft by deception. This driver didn't steal anything or deceive anyone, therefore it cannot be fraud.


----------



## Jamesmiller

elelegido said:


> So how do you explain Lyft's prebooked rides feature? Are you saying that if Lyft prebooks a ride then it's not fraud, but if a driver does it then it is fraud? How does that work?
> 
> Fraud means theft by deception. This driver didn't steal anything or deceive anyone, therefore it cannot be fraud.


When lyft does it because they are the service being requested by the rider. Drivers are not meant to make sideline deals with riders therefore frauding the system and taking profit from a driver who could have received the ping. Outside deal may not breach the terms but it is frown upon


----------



## elelegido

Jamesmiller said:


> When lyft does it because they are the service being requested by the rider. Drivers are not meant to make sideline deals with riders therefore frauding the system and taking profit from a driver who could have received the ping. Outside deal may not breach the terms but it is frown upon


That doesn't hold water. When the OP gave the ride, Lyft was still the service requested by the rider.


----------



## Jamesmiller

Im not saying you dont deserve to get paid for the trip you completed. Same time riders and drivers are not supposed to make deals outside of any ridesharing company to offset their profit



elelegido said:


> That doesn't hold water. When the OP gave the ride, Lyft was still the service requested by the rider.


Yes but the driver put himself in a position to get the trip. Most people driving for lyft and uber doesnt grasp the concept of the system and tries to deceive it to benefit themselves then get upset when they are caught


----------



## elelegido

Jamesmiller said:


> Yes but the driver put himself in a position to get the trip. Most people driving for lyft and uber doesnt grasp the concept of the system and tries to deceive it to benefit themselves then get upset when they are caught


Nah... there's nothing in the Lyft driver agreement that says drivers are not allowed to discuss upcoming trips with pax and then go to the pax' location just before the trip and try to get the ping.


----------



## Kodyhead

I had a perfect one this week, i got a premier request from some office building at around midnight, i arrived and i was guessing it was a residential condo building next door. It turned out to be a strip club down the street about 5 mins away. The guy wanted me to pick up a girl in the parking lot and drive them 33 miles i think to a very nice waterfront apartment building. When i got close i asked her if she was planning on going back tonight and she said yes, i asked how long she wasnt sure but said it could be 1-3 hours. So i gave her my card and told her since i lived near her car that she would make my night if i could drive her back. I did a few more local rides and then just chilled outside the building and watched some tv shows. She called me and tried to get the guy to set up the return trip. Lyft made it impossible for me to get the request and i was clearly the closest car but i am guessing they blocked me somehow as i gave her then ride down. I asked the guy if he had uber and he did and asked to set it up for lux and boom i got the ride back. If the guy didnt have uber i am sure i would of turned into a cash or square ride but they made it tough for me to do the right thing. Also there would of been the risk of not getting paid on the return trip as well.


----------



## Jamesmiller

elelegido said:


> Nah... there's nothing in the Lyft driver agreement that says drivers are not allowed to discuss upcoming trips with pax and then go to the pax' location just before the trip and try to get the ping.


Yes i know its not in the agreement but didnt it strike you as odd that lyft didnt pay you for that trip. Think of them as a big brother always watching you. They just told you through their response that they will withhold your payment for that rebooking. I stopped taking prebooked trips and have no problem getting paid since


----------



## Kodyhead

elelegido said:


> Nah... there's nothing in the Lyft driver agreement that says drivers are not allowed to discuss upcoming trips with pax and then go to the pax' location just before the trip and try to get the ping.


According to lyft they claimed they have the right to withold payment when suspicous rides are detected by their fraud detection team.


----------



## Jamesmiller

Kodyhead said:


> According to lyft they claimed they have the right to withold payment when suspicous rides are detected by their fraud detection team.


My point exactly, they have already addressed prebooking trip as a big negative. If you want to keep getting paid avoid frauding their system. They can tell your normal ping location through your location history. Its a headache not to get paid for a trip but they wont allow their system to be played by us drivers


----------



## elelegido

Jamesmiller said:


> Yes i know its not in the agreement but didnt it strike you as odd that lyft didnt pay you for that trip. Think of them as a big brother always watching you. They just told you through their response that they will withhold your payment for that rebooking. I stopped taking prebooked trips and have no problem getting paid since


I'm not the OP (original poster).

But no, it doesn't strike me as odd that Lyft refuses to pay drivers for trips completed and where payment is due. Neither Lyft or Uber are bound by the bothersome limits of ethics.



Kodyhead said:


> According to lyft they claimed they have the right to withold payment when suspicous rides are detected by their fraud detection team.


Yes, that is what they claim. Lyft makes lots of claims, though, and lots are nonsense. Have you ever turned on the radio and heard their ad? "60% of our rides tip!". Or, "Earn $35/hour driving your own car!". Etc etc.

Most likely, the pax scammed Lyft somehow and he took two rides that Lyft did not get paid for. Then, because the same driver took this pax both times, Lyft put 2 and 2 together and got 5, assuming that because the same driver was involved on both occasions then he was somehow complicit in some conspiracy to defraud Lyft. But Lyft has no proof of this.


----------



## Jamesmiller

elelegido said:


> I'm not the OP (original poster).
> 
> But no, it doesn't strike me as odd that Lyft refuses to pay drivers for trips completed and where payment is due. Neither Lyft or Uber are bound by the bothersome limits of ethics.


Sorry for my confusion but your right. By claiming ridesharing instead of taxi/transportation these businesses are getting away with murder. Us drivers are getting passed around with no lube



elelegido said:


> I'm not the OP (original poster).
> 
> But no, it doesn't strike me as odd that Lyft refuses to pay drivers for trips completed and where payment is due. Neither Lyft or Uber are bound by the bothersome limits of ethics.
> 
> Yes, that is what they claim. Lyft makes lots of claims, though, and lots are nonsense. Have you ever turned on the radio and heard their ad? "60% of our rides tip!". Or, "Earn $35/hour driving your own car!". Etc etc.
> 
> Most likely, the pax scammed Lyft somehow and he took two rides that Lyft did not get paid for. Then, because the same driver took this pax both times, Lyft put 2 and 2 together and got 5, assuming that because the same driver was involved on both occasions then he was somehow complicit in some conspiracy to defraud Lyft. But Lyft has no proof of this.


The proof is in the suspicion. They dont need solid proof when they have a driver picking up the same customer they dropped off. The way their app is designed allows them to put the pieces together


----------



## elelegido

Jamesmiller said:


> The proof is in the suspicion.


No; thankfully, suspicion is not proof.


----------



## Jamesmiller

elelegido said:


> No; thankfully, suspicion is not proof.


To lyft who cuts the check smh its enough proof as op has shown


----------



## elelegido

Jamesmiller said:


> To lyft who cuts the check smh its enough proof as op has shown


It's not proof. Lyft is withholding the money based on only a suspicion of fraud only. Lyft obviously feels justified in what it is doing; whether or not a court would agree is a different matter entirely.


----------



## Jamesmiller

elelegido said:


> It's not proof. Lyft is withholding the money based on only a suspicion of fraud only. Lyft obviously feels justified in what it is doing; whether or not a court would agree is a different matter entirely.


Your right its up to the court to decide


----------



## Kodyhead

elelegido said:


> Most likely, the pax scammed Lyft somehow and he took two rides that Lyft did not get paid for. Then, because the same driver took this pax both times, Lyft put 2 and 2 together and got 5, assuming that because the same driver was involved on both occasions then he was somehow complicit in some conspiracy to defraud Lyft. But Lyft has no proof of this.


I specifically asked about this scenario, and asked for proof that they did not get paid for this, and even if they did get scammed, it has nothing to do with me as I am not asked to verify credit card info or ID or involved in anyway to set up the account, but they said it wasn't the issue, it was the call was not organically through their system, so it has to be random. I should also add I left out an important part of the ride I didn't get paid on, as although this was prearranged, it was also very last minute, and I was like 12-15 mins away, but the rider generously offered to set up the request from where I was, and he set it up as a 2 trip stop so I can get paid from where I was, which of course I could not refuse. From what I gathered from talking to these guys, I doubt they scammed lyft in anyway. I could be wrong but just doubt it.


----------



## Ubingdowntown

Lorentz said:


> "Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems."
> 
> Thing is the only fraud here is them arbitrarily not paying me. But let me not get ahead of myself.
> 
> On May 4th I gave a ride two several students from Alabama A&M University to Birmingham Shuttleworth Airport. This makes sense the Huntsville international airport prices are so high that Lyft to Bham and a ticket to Chicago is cheaper than flying out of here, especially when several riders are splitting the ride share cost. This ride came to me via another driver who had carried them several times to airports to fly out but in the recent let's all switch to Lyft bit riders are doing they called him and said they are using Lyft and asked if he could take them. He said he drives for only Uber and messaged me and told me to head to a&m and if probably get a request for a trip to Bham. No problem. The trip goes without a hitch. I had to wait 3 days before Lyft verified the trip and paid me.
> 
> Now on this past Saturday. I get a text from one of the guys who I carried to Bham. He asked if I'd mind another trip, this time Nashville , his sister now down with her school stuff here was returning to Chicago for mother's day. Not a problem. I go to Madison to the road they live on and wait for the request. I pick her up and drive her to Nashville. All went fine. I grabbed a trip in Nashville at the airport for another 30 dollars to 65s which is on my way and headed back home. As usual all my money is held in "we are currently reviewing the trip" limbo, some $280. On Monday I receive a message from Lyft as follows:
> 
> "Date: May 13, 2017 04:44:59 am
> Mileage: 126.88 miles
> Time: 113 minutes, 47 seconds
> 
> After further review with our risk team, we will be unable to honor the payout for the flagged trip in question. In addition, we will be offsetting a total of $142.67 from future earnings for previously prearranged ride(s). Please note, under the Terms of Service, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of Ride Fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, it is important to never prearrange rides with passengers as any attempt to defraud Lyft or Riders on the Lyft Platform or in connection with your provision of Services could put your account at risk of deactivation.
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> Woah hold up a minute. First of all nothing was misused. Definitely no fraud. Clearly Lyft didn't really think anything fraudulent had occurred I mean unless they have a habit of allowing people who are committing fraud to remain drivers, as I still to this day can sign in to drive. Except not only are they not paying me for the recent trip, they're deducting from my other funds from other trips, the payment from another trip they have already verified. It seems they can arbitrarily at any time decide that a trip, whether verified or not, is no longer mine and now I owe them. Since they had my funds in hock holding for verification, even 140 or so that was from other trips (and tips which I will mention in a moment). Is now theres to hold.
> 
> Tips are protected. Not wages. Tips are the sole property of the recipient. I am this recipient not Lyft. Lyft does not have the right to take my tips as per FLSA. Even if I owe them money, tips are not part of the wages that are negotiable funds for alleviating that debt. This has been held time and time again. This is an aside but worth mentioning as it shows the lack of ethics and regard for the law beyond them simply hijacking my pay for the rides and service rendered.
> 
> So I've been back and forth with them. Well more me than them. I messaged on Twitter and on Facebook. I was told that Alexander would get back to me. He did. Same message boilerplate as before:
> 
> "
> We regret to inform you that after additional consideration we are unable to honor the payout for the aforementioned flagged trips. To reiterate, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, any attempt to defraud Lyft or Lyft riders, or in connection with your provision of services, could put your account at risk of deactivation
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> So basically it was no response. Just the same adlib fill in the blank.
> 
> I asked for information about what leads then to believe misuse had occurred. I asked for what I could provide to show them that bo such fraud or misuse was present on any trip I've driven. I asked them to explain why I was being treated as if I'd done something wrong when I go out of my way to follow the rules and most assuredly have never maliciously, as they suggest, done anything to profit from some wrongdoing.
> 
> It seems Lyft has the belief they can arbitrarily not pay a driver without any need for explanation. I messaged again after this last email and was told I would hear back from Alexander. I waited a few more days, going on 3 now, and I messaged them back on Facebook at which point I was told I would not be hearing any further that this ticket was closed and the decision final. I'm...I don't even know. I did nothing wrong except drive for Lyft.


Go solo uber and they can't collect


----------



## FormerDriverAtl

Lorentz said:


> "Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems."
> 
> Thing is the only fraud here is them arbitrarily not paying me. But let me not get ahead of myself.
> 
> On May 4th I gave a ride two several students from Alabama A&M University to Birmingham Shuttleworth Airport. This makes sense the Huntsville international airport prices are so high that Lyft to Bham and a ticket to Chicago is cheaper than flying out of here, especially when several riders are splitting the ride share cost. This ride came to me via another driver who had carried them several times to airports to fly out but in the recent let's all switch to Lyft bit riders are doing they called him and said they are using Lyft and asked if he could take them. He said he drives for only Uber and messaged me and told me to head to a&m and if probably get a request for a trip to Bham. No problem. The trip goes without a hitch. I had to wait 3 days before Lyft verified the trip and paid me.
> 
> Now on this past Saturday. I get a text from one of the guys who I carried to Bham. He asked if I'd mind another trip, this time Nashville , his sister now down with her school stuff here was returning to Chicago for mother's day. Not a problem. I go to Madison to the road they live on and wait for the request. I pick her up and drive her to Nashville. All went fine. I grabbed a trip in Nashville at the airport for another 30 dollars to 65s which is on my way and headed back home. As usual all my money is held in "we are currently reviewing the trip" limbo, some $280. On Monday I receive a message from Lyft as follows:
> 
> "Date: May 13, 2017 04:44:59 am
> Mileage: 126.88 miles
> Time: 113 minutes, 47 seconds
> 
> After further review with our risk team, we will be unable to honor the payout for the flagged trip in question. In addition, we will be offsetting a total of $142.67 from future earnings for previously prearranged ride(s). Please note, under the Terms of Service, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of Ride Fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, it is important to never prearrange rides with passengers as any attempt to defraud Lyft or Riders on the Lyft Platform or in connection with your provision of Services could put your account at risk of deactivation.
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> Woah hold up a minute. First of all nothing was misused. Definitely no fraud. Clearly Lyft didn't really think anything fraudulent had occurred I mean unless they have a habit of allowing people who are committing fraud to remain drivers, as I still to this day can sign in to drive. Except not only are they not paying me for the recent trip, they're deducting from my other funds from other trips, the payment from another trip they have already verified. It seems they can arbitrarily at any time decide that a trip, whether verified or not, is no longer mine and now I owe them. Since they had my funds in hock holding for verification, even 140 or so that was from other trips (and tips which I will mention in a moment). Is now theres to hold.
> 
> Tips are protected. Not wages. Tips are the sole property of the recipient. I am this recipient not Lyft. Lyft does not have the right to take my tips as per FLSA. Even if I owe them money, tips are not part of the wages that are negotiable funds for alleviating that debt. This has been held time and time again. This is an aside but worth mentioning as it shows the lack of ethics and regard for the law beyond them simply hijacking my pay for the rides and service rendered.
> 
> So I've been back and forth with them. Well more me than them. I messaged on Twitter and on Facebook. I was told that Alexander would get back to me. He did. Same message boilerplate as before:
> 
> "
> We regret to inform you that after additional consideration we are unable to honor the payout for the aforementioned flagged trips. To reiterate, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, any attempt to defraud Lyft or Lyft riders, or in connection with your provision of services, could put your account at risk of deactivation
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> So basically it was no response. Just the same adlib fill in the blank.
> 
> I asked for information about what leads then to believe misuse had occurred. I asked for what I could provide to show them that bo such fraud or misuse was present on any trip I've driven. I asked them to explain why I was being treated as if I'd done something wrong when I go out of my way to follow the rules and most assuredly have never maliciously, as they suggest, done anything to profit from some wrongdoing.
> 
> It seems Lyft has the belief they can arbitrarily not pay a driver without any need for explanation. I messaged again after this last email and was told I would hear back from Alexander. I waited a few more days, going on 3 now, and I messaged them back on Facebook at which point I was told I would not be hearing any further that this ticket was closed and the decision final. I'm...I don't even know. I did nothing wrong except drive for Lyft.


Get a merchant account and just drive prearranged customers without lyft altogether


----------



## UberLaLa

Lorentz said:


> The tips portion is in relation to an aside on this. They're withholding tips and payments to cover their debt they've applied for an already verified and paid ride. I was just pointing out that as per FLSA (fair labor and standards act) tips are protected and the sole property of the recipient. As such then withholding those in lieu of this "debt" is unethical and not at all legal. Even if the debt were valid (it is not). It's not truly relevant to this situation, but something I'm seeing and find as well disturbing.


I'm guessing the Tip was larger than the Fare, correct?


----------



## I_Like_Spam

Prearrange your trip outside of the Lyft system, and get the payment in cash. You wouldn't be the first Lyft driver to do this.

The main problem with this is the insurance problem ,at least in many states. You can certainly take a chance, but the real long term solution to getting Uber pay to increase is competition on the insurance angle of ride sharing. An idea would be for a ride share app to be set up for Just Insurance. The partners would have to be responsible to get their own rides, take credit cards on their own, etc, and for the new ride share concern to provide insurance for a much better rate than Uber.


BTW, in this case, I wouldn't be half surprised if none of the refund went to the passenger at all


----------



## touberornottouber

Spotscat said:


> Read Section 17 - Dispute Resolution and Arbitration Agreement - in your Lyft Terms of Service.
> 
> Then send Alexander an email stating either refund my money, or else we take this to arbitration.


Or go further than that. Tell Lyft that if there was fraud you will be filing a police report regarding the fraud because you are out around $500 (that may reach felony levels in your state?). Tell them that you are also considering an attorney and naming them as a party to a lawsuit where you will compel them and the passenger to testify and give evidence in court if need be.

Of course as mentioned something else could be going on here like the passengers used a stolen credit card or falsely claimed fraud and aren't telling you about it. In fact this is probably the most probable thing. If so from Lyft's perspective they would suspect that you colluded with the passenger to get the commission from the charged back ride.

I would think twice about taking leads from this other driver in the future...


----------



## Gooberlifturwallet

Lorentz said:


> "Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems."
> 
> Thing is the only fraud here is them arbitrarily not paying me. But let me not get ahead of myself.
> 
> On May 4th I gave a ride two several students from Alabama A&M University to Birmingham Shuttleworth Airport. This makes sense the Huntsville international airport prices are so high that Lyft to Bham and a ticket to Chicago is cheaper than flying out of here, especially when several riders are splitting the ride share cost. This ride came to me via another driver who had carried them several times to airports to fly out but in the recent let's all switch to Lyft bit riders are doing they called him and said they are using Lyft and asked if he could take them. He said he drives for only Uber and messaged me and told me to head to a&m and if probably get a request for a trip to Bham. No problem. The trip goes without a hitch. I had to wait 3 days before Lyft verified the trip and paid me.
> 
> Now on this past Saturday. I get a text from one of the guys who I carried to Bham. He asked if I'd mind another trip, this time Nashville , his sister now down with her school stuff here was returning to Chicago for mother's day. Not a problem. I go to Madison to the road they live on and wait for the request. I pick her up and drive her to Nashville. All went fine. I grabbed a trip in Nashville at the airport for another 30 dollars to 65s which is on my way and headed back home. As usual all my money is held in "we are currently reviewing the trip" limbo, some $280. On Monday I receive a message from Lyft as follows:
> 
> "Date: May 13, 2017 04:44:59 am
> Mileage: 126.88 miles
> Time: 113 minutes, 47 seconds
> 
> After further review with our risk team, we will be unable to honor the payout for the flagged trip in question. In addition, we will be offsetting a total of $142.67 from future earnings for previously prearranged ride(s). Please note, under the Terms of Service, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of Ride Fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, it is important to never prearrange rides with passengers as any attempt to defraud Lyft or Riders on the Lyft Platform or in connection with your provision of Services could put your account at risk of deactivation.
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> Woah hold up a minute. First of all nothing was misused. Definitely no fraud. Clearly Lyft didn't really think anything fraudulent had occurred I mean unless they have a habit of allowing people who are committing fraud to remain drivers, as I still to this day can sign in to drive. Except not only are they not paying me for the recent trip, they're deducting from my other funds from other trips, the payment from another trip they have already verified. It seems they can arbitrarily at any time decide that a trip, whether verified or not, is no longer mine and now I owe them. Since they had my funds in hock holding for verification, even 140 or so that was from other trips (and tips which I will mention in a moment). Is now theres to hold.
> 
> Tips are protected. Not wages. Tips are the sole property of the recipient. I am this recipient not Lyft. Lyft does not have the right to take my tips as per FLSA. Even if I owe them money, tips are not part of the wages that are negotiable funds for alleviating that debt. This has been held time and time again. This is an aside but worth mentioning as it shows the lack of ethics and regard for the law beyond them simply hijacking my pay for the rides and service rendered.
> 
> So I've been back and forth with them. Well more me than them. I messaged on Twitter and on Facebook. I was told that Alexander would get back to me. He did. Same message boilerplate as before:
> 
> "
> We regret to inform you that after additional consideration we are unable to honor the payout for the aforementioned flagged trips. To reiterate, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, any attempt to defraud Lyft or Lyft riders, or in connection with your provision of services, could put your account at risk of deactivation
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> So basically it was no response. Just the same adlib fill in the blank.
> 
> I asked for information about what leads then to believe misuse had occurred. I asked for what I could provide to show them that bo such fraud or misuse was present on any trip I've driven. I asked them to explain why I was being treated as if I'd done something wrong when I go out of my way to follow the rules and most assuredly have never maliciously, as they suggest, done anything to profit from some wrongdoing.
> 
> It seems Lyft has the belief they can arbitrarily not pay a driver without any need for explanation. I messaged again after this last email and was told I would hear back from Alexander. I waited a few more days, going on 3 now, and I messaged them back on Facebook at which point I was told I would not be hearing any further that this ticket was closed and the decision final. I'm...I don't even know. I did nothing wrong except drive for Lyft.


Those Millennials scammed you. They denied they took the trip and lyft will always back the passenger. Never book a long-distance trip through Uber or Lyft. Get square and then run the client's credit card in the car with signature on an in-car cam as well. They can't deny it's their face on cam signing the charge. If there's an excuse as to why they can't tell them to go **** themselves. Have a nice day! Also pay for commercial insurance like I do so that you can legally do this. Forget about all the local and state government nonsense about regulations Etc. They allow Uber and Lyft to operate freely without all those restrictions that limo companies and cab companies still have to follow although it is archaic. You have to love how these forums maintain their PC nonsense I spelled out the word.


----------



## I_Like_Spam

Gooberlifturwallet said:


> Those Millennials scammed you. They denied they took the trip and lyft will always back the passenger. Never book a long-distance trip through Uber or Lyft. Get square and then run the client's credit card in the car with signature on an in-car cam as well. They can't deny it's their face on cam signing the charge. If there's an excuse as to why they can't tell them to go &%[email protected]!* themselves. Have a nice day! You have to love how these forums maintain their PC nonsense I spelled out the word.


In the Cab business, we called it getting the fare up-front. Definitely advised for young passengers seeking to go a far distance.

Most young people were cool with it.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4

I_Like_Spam said:


> In the Cab business, we called it getting the fare up-front. Definitely advised for young passengers seeking to go a far distance.
> 
> Most young people were cool with it.


People are still cool with it...

All you gotta do is make up a bunch of BS about the credit card processing not working outside of the companies service area or some other such nonsense...

Also.. age has nothing to do with it. You gotta do it just because sometimes.


----------



## Atom guy

Try including " I am contacting the department of labor" in your emails. This is BS. You gave a ride on app so they got their cut. Whats the problem.

BTW, I read a recent article about Uber and they track drivers and passengers to find "collusion" like this. Why they care when it is on app, idk.

I had a regular passenger who would always text me when she needed a ride, and when I got to her place, she would request a ride. Worked for months, until one day Uber just would not connect us any longer. So it switched to a cash deal for about a month until she moved away. Uber lost quite a bit of their end by being dicks.


----------



## I_Like_Spam

Atom guy said:


> BTW, I read a recent article about Uber and they track drivers and passengers to find "collusion" like this. Why they care when it is on app, idk.


Uber cares because they don't want real connections between passengers and partners which could lead in the future to them being left out of the equation altogether.

30 some years ago, I used to work for a local supermarket for about 9 months or so, quit because the union dues pushed my net pay to less than what I could make doing the same thing elsewhere. But I did get the union newsletter, and they were trying to organize a Supercuts kind of chain barbershop that was active them. This store prohibited their employees from telling the customers their names or phone #'s, they wanted to retain the customers for their store- not provide a following for the stylists.

This is just the same thing. Uber making an effort to keep the customers as Uber Customers, so they don't become Atom Guy Customers following him to another app or another company or if you want to have your own private customers.


----------



## nickd8775

You still have the rider's contact info? If they didn't get a refund, ask them to dispute the charges. Then pay you the fare via PayPal or Venmo.


----------



## Shea F. Kenny

LYFT told you the reason was you pre-arranged the trips and thereby cheated other drivers out of being eligible for the trips and because of having outside contact with riders, which is not allowed under any circumstances. You circumvented the system, therefore defrauded LYFT, for not using the system as designed and agreed to. You took unfair advantage. They owe you nothing.


----------



## UberLaLa

It's because OP used the Lyft App to receive his cash payment (greater than the fare itself) via the Tip function...


----------



## uberdriverfornow

Prearranged indicates it was done outside of the app. Since this was done solely within the app and Lyft got their cut they have nothing to gripe about.

Sounds like you need to formally open up an arbitration dispute with Lyft.


----------



## UberGeo

elelegido said:


> So how do you explain Lyft's prebooked rides feature? Are you saying that if Lyft prebooks a ride then it's not fraud, but if a driver does it then it is fraud? How does that work?
> 
> Fraud means theft by deception. This driver didn't steal anything or deceive anyone, therefore it cannot be fraud.





Jamesmiller said:


> Simple solution dont do any prearranged rides. Ridesharing wasnt designed for that purpose therefore you did fraud the system


 So, if pax is in my car and ordered line or pool, but needs to do 2 stops, do I put them out or do I make them get out because someone else took the ping or do I tell them to cancel until they get me?

Also, if I just so happen to be in that hood and know that a pax orders long rides... Why would I not expect another long ride from that same area and sit there occasionally hoping?


----------



## elelegido

UberGeo said:


> So, if pax is in my car and ordered line or pool, but needs to do 2 stops, do I put them out or do I make them get out because someone else took the ping or do I tell them to cancel until they get me?


You can have them request and cancel until they get you if you feel like waiting until you get assigned their ping; if not then you eject them and they can wait curbside for their next driver.

I had a great surge Pool ride yesterday - I ride denied the first pax because he was under 18, then drive a mile to the next pickup. The guy gets in then says he entered the wrong destination. I tell him he has to cancel the ride. He does, repings from inside the car and gets assigned to "Doris" or someone. I ask him to get out and recommend he waits at the corner for Doris. About an 8 minute ride total for an easy $10, and no pax driven anywhere. So good Pool rides do exist! (rarely)


----------



## TNCMinWage

Next time tell them you'll do it via Venmo. Most millennials use it and if these pax didn't, you could entice them with a slight discount on the estimated fare. Give them 5% off, and save yourself 25% of Lyft fees.


----------



## Jamesmiller

UberGeo said:


> So, if pax is in my car and ordered line or pool, but needs to do 2 stops, do I put them out or do I make them get out because someone else took the ping or do I tell them to cancel until they get me?
> 
> Also, if I just so happen to be in that hood and know that a pax orders long rides... Why would I not expect another long ride from that same area and sit there occasionally hoping?


I tell them i cant make any stops.
Yes but the chances of a driver picking up the same customer they dropped off at the airport is suspicious. That would mean they where aware of when the rider would come back


----------



## Tese

I have prearranged trips with pax frequently. Usually older people who are going to appointments and going right back home. I drop them off; find a place for lunch or gas station; head back to pax when it is time to go. I've had to contact Lyft for them to manually calc the fare if the older pax couldn't operate the app (someone else usually sets up the trip for them). So, Lyft is well aware that the return trips were arranged outside of the app. No issues on my end.

OP - your pax must have made a complaint to Lyft.


----------



## Skinny1

This whole thread stinks..



We are in a major market I've never heard of anyone say it's not okay to hand out a card and line up a ride "in app".
OP may be the fraud with some sort of fraud in his story, unless he wants to spill the truth.... this is a BS thread.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

Skinny1 said:


> This whole thread stinks..
> 
> We are in a major market I've never heard of anyone say it's not okay to hand out a card and line up a ride "in app".
> OP may be the fraud with some sort of fraud in his story, unless he wants to spill the truth.... this is a BS thread.


It's most likely the pax made a fake dispute in order to get a refund.

Lyft has no gripe since the request was made within the app.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4

Honestly thinking about it...

Working for either of this companies is just horrible,


I have 6 payments disputes this year on the uber platform,

Zero as a taxi driver,

Which do you think i did more business on, this week as a taxi driver, or all all year on uber?


----------



## PepeLePiu

Is very likely that the pax complained or refused the charges, if I was in your shoes I will present a small claim against the rider, he has to show up and show proof that he paid Lyft on his CC, if he can't do that then you go against the pax for theft of services plus court cost and collection fees. They have to show the last pages of the transactions on the CC.
That been said, I have a prearrangement of sorts with several pax, I know when they go to work or when they go back home, I tell them not to cancel if another driver picks up the request but generally I'm close enough to pick them up but not so close as to create collusion. One day I picked up the same pax 3 times and I got paid normally. The only trouble I got before is on long trips when Uber or Lyft takes up to 3 days to pay for the trip.


----------



## Emp9

take square or cash next time, screw uber and lyft, they dont want their cut, so be it. offer the pax a discount and you both win. very foolish move on lyfts part considering prearranged trips fraud.


----------



## westsidebum

Go through your contract with fine comb. Look for anything related to fraud and arranged rides. Take lyft to small claims court even if you violated spec. Tos


----------



## Kodyhead

Tese said:


> I have prearranged trips with pax frequently. Usually older people who are going to appointments and going right back home. I drop them off; find a place for lunch or gas station; head back to pax when it is time to go. I've had to contact Lyft for them to manually calc the fare if the older pax couldn't operate the app (someone else usually sets up the trip for them). So, Lyft is well aware that the return trips were arranged outside of the app. No issues on my end.
> 
> OP - your pax must have made a complaint to Lyft.


You are wrong perhaps they let it go because of your explanation but lyft absolutely considers prearranged rides as fraud. I agree there is a possibility that the rider claimed fraud but at least in my case my opinion was that they most likely didnt complain.


----------



## Uberk5487

I did a 5 hour Uber trip, 4 hour in Uber sends me a message saying they feels a fraud is being committed and for me to end the trip immediately and I will not be getting paid, until further review...... I nearly stopped breathing.... I was looking forward to instant pay to cover my gas for the ride back....I was directed to a little known rule where long trips are considered possibly fraud....I went ape **** and they finally paid me for the entire 5 hours 2 days later...

You should have did the trip off the grid.....


----------



## Kodyhead

Uberk5487 said:


> I did a 5 hour Uber trip, 4 hour in Uber sends me a message saying they feels a fraud is being committed and for me to end the trip immediately and I will not be getting paid, until further review...... I nearly stopped breathing.... I was looking forward to instant pay to cover my gas for the ride back....I was directed to a little known rule where long trips are considered possibly fraud....I went ape **** and they finally paid me for the entire 5 hours 2 days later...
> 
> You should have did the trip off the grid.....


I agree

Fyi depends on your market but uber caps trips at 4hrs vs lyft in my market caps it at $500.

On long distance trips, i think it is important to negotiate the return trip.


----------



## Roselyn

In my experience dealing with Lyft and Uber, I believe that Uber would have resolved this situation better and pay you after several exchanges. You did drive for them and made them make money. Lyft's customer service is horrible. Not that Uber is the best, but for the most part they tend to resolve the issues if you can document them properly and they look reasonable. Don't drive for Lyft anymore. They are also very deceiving because they don't tell you at front exactly how much they are paying you but how much they charged the passenger so that you think you got paid more than you did. Also, the fact that you don't have online access to the specific ride after you have ended it to enter a comment make comments or requests about that ride more difficult. Uber also scams us but at least have a more responsive system.


----------



## Chrisgotcheated

Lorentz said:


> "Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems."
> 
> Thing is the only fraud here is them arbitrarily not paying me. But let me not get ahead of myself.
> 
> On May 4th I gave a ride two several students from Alabama A&M University to Birmingham Shuttleworth Airport. This makes sense the Huntsville international airport prices are so high that Lyft to Bham and a ticket to Chicago is cheaper than flying out of here, especially when several riders are splitting the ride share cost. This ride came to me via another driver who had carried them several times to airports to fly out but in the recent let's all switch to Lyft bit riders are doing they called him and said they are using Lyft and asked if he could take them. He said he drives for only Uber and messaged me and told me to head to a&m and if probably get a request for a trip to Bham. No problem. The trip goes without a hitch. I had to wait 3 days before Lyft verified the trip and paid me.
> 
> Now on this past Saturday. I get a text from one of the guys who I carried to Bham. He asked if I'd mind another trip, this time Nashville , his sister now down with her school stuff here was returning to Chicago for mother's day. Not a problem. I go to Madison to the road they live on and wait for the request. I pick her up and drive her to Nashville. All went fine. I grabbed a trip in Nashville at the airport for another 30 dollars to 65s which is on my way and headed back home. As usual all my money is held in "we are currently reviewing the trip" limbo, some $280. On Monday I receive a message from Lyft as follows:
> 
> "Date: May 13, 2017 04:44:59 am
> Mileage: 126.88 miles
> Time: 113 minutes, 47 seconds
> 
> After further review with our risk team, we will be unable to honor the payout for the flagged trip in question. In addition, we will be offsetting a total of $142.67 from future earnings for previously prearranged ride(s). Please note, under the Terms of Service, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of Ride Fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, it is important to never prearrange rides with passengers as any attempt to defraud Lyft or Riders on the Lyft Platform or in connection with your provision of Services could put your account at risk of deactivation.
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> Woah hold up a minute. First of all nothing was misused. Definitely no fraud. Clearly Lyft didn't really think anything fraudulent had occurred I mean unless they have a habit of allowing people who are committing fraud to remain drivers, as I still to this day can sign in to drive. Except not only are they not paying me for the recent trip, they're deducting from my other funds from other trips, the payment from another trip they have already verified. It seems they can arbitrarily at any time decide that a trip, whether verified or not, is no longer mine and now I owe them. Since they had my funds in hock holding for verification, even 140 or so that was from other trips (and tips which I will mention in a moment). Is now theres to hold.
> 
> Tips are protected. Not wages. Tips are the sole property of the recipient. I am this recipient not Lyft. Lyft does not have the right to take my tips as per FLSA. Even if I owe them money, tips are not part of the wages that are negotiable funds for alleviating that debt. This has been held time and time again. This is an aside but worth mentioning as it shows the lack of ethics and regard for the law beyond them simply hijacking my pay for the rides and service rendered.
> 
> So I've been back and forth with them. Well more me than them. I messaged on Twitter and on Facebook. I was told that Alexander would get back to me. He did. Same message boilerplate as before:
> 
> "
> We regret to inform you that after additional consideration we are unable to honor the payout for the aforementioned flagged trips. To reiterate, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, any attempt to defraud Lyft or Lyft riders, or in connection with your provision of services, could put your account at risk of deactivation
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> So basically it was no response. Just the same adlib fill in the blank.
> 
> I asked for information about what leads then to believe misuse had occurred. I asked for what I could provide to show them that bo such fraud or misuse was present on any trip I've driven. I asked them to explain why I was being treated as if I'd done something wrong when I go out of my way to follow the rules and most assuredly have never maliciously, as they suggest, done anything to profit from some wrongdoing.
> 
> It seems Lyft has the belief they can arbitrarily not pay a driver without any need for explanation. I messaged again after this last email and was told I would hear back from Alexander. I waited a few more days, going on 3 now, and I messaged them back on Facebook at which point I was told I would not be hearing any further that this ticket was closed and the decision final. I'm...I don't even know. I did nothing wrong except drive for Lyft.


----------



## Chrisgotcheated

Well first Alexander is a pseudonym for their computer which identifies the type of complaint its fielding from you and shoots you a canned response. There are several different names but that's one Zen desk I believe uses for "we already decided this send him same thing again" am I right that you didn't talk to live person when Alexander was involved?
Uber, Lyft have actually programmed theft of your money into the application for years. Tough to swallow I know but here's just 1 of 14 I've identified:
When you have a ride that say was 30.00 and customer calls in for an adjustment they give customer adjustment as follows every time since they came online:
$30 trip , you get 22.50 they get 7.50
Adjustment let's say is 10.00 so new total is 20.00. Means customer gets 10.00 back. They should take 7.50 from yours and 2.50 from theirs but they just need take the whole adjustment from you and keep their end of it so it comes out you got 12.50 and they got 7.50. Ask them to fix it they'll just explain adjustments to you until you give up. Uber and Lyft by the way are owned by the same VC group by the way except crazy Colin is not in that group. Lyft serves the purpose of avoiding any anti trust issues. They can talk smack about each other but same ownership. Anyone's interested in the multitude of scams and stealing your money scenarios we are creating a data base with the thousands of instances of these companies blatantly cheating both drivers and riders systematically. They are by no means a responsible corporate entity. They are an example of thieves gone wild. They can't believe how stupid everyone is and how we just assume a huge company won't cheat us.

Caviar I didn't see the blatant theft that I saw at Lyft and uber but Caviars application sucks in regards to connectivity. I actually was getting messages that my offered trips had expired before I saw the trips. They said I was ignoring deliveries and deactivated me just like that. I had criticized their engineering teams as useless and the issues ramped up almost immediately. The arrogance of these corporations is way out of control. I'm going to get to go on tv in a few days for a news segment where I will urge people to not drive or order from caviar as they are almost as abusive to drivers as uber and Lyft.

Thing is the only fraud here is them arbitrarily not paying me. But let me not get ahead of myself.

On May 4th I gave a ride two several students from Alabama A&M University to Birmingham Shuttleworth Airport. This makes sense the Huntsville international airport prices are so high that Lyft to Bham and a ticket to Chicago is cheaper than flying out of here, especially when several riders are splitting the ride share cost. This ride came to me via another driver who had carried them several times to airports to fly out but in the recent let's all switch to Lyft bit riders are doing they called him and said they are using Lyft and asked if he could take them. He said he drives for only Uber and messaged me and told me to head to a&m and if probably get a request for a trip to Bham. No problem. The trip goes without a hitch. I had to wait 3 days before Lyft verified the trip and paid me.

Now on this past Saturday. I get a text from one of the guys who I carried to Bham. He asked if I'd mind another trip, this time Nashville , his sister now down with her school stuff here was returning to Chicago for mother's day. Not a problem. I go to Madison to the road they live on and wait for the request. I pick her up and drive her to Nashville. All went fine. I grabbed a trip in Nashville at the airport for another 30 dollars to 65s which is on my way and headed back home. As usual all my money is held in "we are currently reviewing the trip" limbo, some $280. On Monday I receive a message from Lyft as follows:

"Date: May 13, 2017 04:44:59 am
Mileage: 126.88 miles
Time: 113 minutes, 47 seconds

After further review with our risk team, we will be unable to honor the payout for the flagged trip in question. In addition, we will be offsetting a total of $142.67 from future earnings for previously prearranged ride(s). Please note, under the Terms of Service, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of Ride Fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.

Moving forward, it is important to never prearrange rides with passengers as any attempt to defraud Lyft or Riders on the Lyft Platform or in connection with your provision of Services could put your account at risk of deactivation.

Alexander"

Woah hold up a minute. First of all nothing was misused. Definitely no fraud. Clearly Lyft didn't really think anything fraudulent had occurred I mean unless they have a habit of allowing people who are committing fraud to remain drivers, as I still to this day can sign in to drive. Except not only are they not paying me for the recent trip, they're deducting from my other funds from other trips, the payment from another trip they have already verified. It seems they can arbitrarily at any time decide that a trip, whether verified or not, is no longer mine and now I owe them. Since they had my funds in hock holding for verification, even 140 or so that was from other trips (and tips which I will mention in a moment). Is now theres to hold.

Tips are protected. Not wages. Tips are the sole property of the recipient. I am this recipient not Lyft. Lyft does not have the right to take my tips as per FLSA. Even if I owe them money, tips are not part of the wages that are negotiable funds for alleviating that debt. This has been held time and time again. This is an aside but worth mentioning as it shows the lack of ethics and regard for the law beyond them simply hijacking my pay for the rides and service rendered.

So I've been back and forth with them. Well more me than them. I messaged on Twitter and on Facebook. I was told that Alexander would get back to me. He did. Same message boilerplate as before:

"
We regret to inform you that after additional consideration we are unable to honor the payout for the aforementioned flagged trips. To reiterate, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.

Moving forward, any attempt to defraud Lyft or Lyft riders, or in connection with your provision of services, could put your account at risk of deactivation

Alexander"

So basically it was no response. Just the same adlib fill in the blank.

I asked for information about what leads then to believe misuse had occurred. I asked for what I could provide to show them that bo such fraud or misuse was present on any trip I've driven. I asked them to explain why I was being treated as if I'd done something wrong when I go out of my way to follow the rules and most assuredly have never maliciously, as they suggest, done anything to profit from some wrongdoing.

It seems Lyft has the belief they can arbitrarily not pay a driver without any need for explanation. I messaged again after this last email and was told I would hear back from Alexander. I waited a few more days, going on 3 now, and I messaged them back on Facebook at which point I was told I would not be hearing any further that this ticket was closed and the decision final. I'm...I don't even know. I did nothing wrong except drive for Lyft.[/QUOTE]
Well


----------



## dirtylee

Don't do long trips in app. 
ATM's fees are less than 25% & upfront fees.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4

dirtylee said:


> Don't do long trips in app.
> ATM's fees are less than 25% & upfront fees.


Only problem is you have zero insurance coverage with ANY policy if anything happens on the trip.


----------



## dirtylee

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Only problem is you have zero insurance coverage with ANY policy if anything happens on the trip.


My insurance covers me & my car. Pax are SOL. Drive safe & ur fine.


----------



## SEAL Team 5

Lorentz said:


> Now on this past Saturday. I get a text from one of the guys who I carried to Bham. He asked if I'd mind another trip, this time Nashville


There's your problem. Under no circumstance are you allowed to have any contact with any rider with regards to driving outside of the app.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4

dirtylee said:


> My insurance covers me & my car. Pax are SOL. Drive safe & ur fine.


So that's only $250,000 out of pocket if something happens and they get lawyer happy?


----------



## Uberk5487

SEAL Team 5 said:


> There's your problem. Under no circumstance are you allowed to have any contact with any rider with regards to driving outside of the app.


Aww you are so loyal to your slave master.....they gonna end up giving you a extra badge....


----------



## UberCheese

Next time just take the cash or use a money exchange app. You'll keep 100% of it.



Lorentz said:


> "Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems."
> 
> Thing is the only fraud here is them arbitrarily not paying me. But let me not get ahead of myself.
> 
> On May 4th I gave a ride two several students from Alabama A&M University to Birmingham Shuttleworth Airport. This makes sense the Huntsville international airport prices are so high that Lyft to Bham and a ticket to Chicago is cheaper than flying out of here, especially when several riders are splitting the ride share cost. This ride came to me via another driver who had carried them several times to airports to fly out but in the recent let's all switch to Lyft bit riders are doing they called him and said they are using Lyft and asked if he could take them. He said he drives for only Uber and messaged me and told me to head to a&m and if probably get a request for a trip to Bham. No problem. The trip goes without a hitch. I had to wait 3 days before Lyft verified the trip and paid me.
> 
> Now on this past Saturday. I get a text from one of the guys who I carried to Bham. He asked if I'd mind another trip, this time Nashville , his sister now down with her school stuff here was returning to Chicago for mother's day. Not a problem. I go to Madison to the road they live on and wait for the request. I pick her up and drive her to Nashville. All went fine. I grabbed a trip in Nashville at the airport for another 30 dollars to 65s which is on my way and headed back home. As usual all my money is held in "we are currently reviewing the trip" limbo, some $280. On Monday I receive a message from Lyft as follows:
> 
> "Date: May 13, 2017 04:44:59 am
> Mileage: 126.88 miles
> Time: 113 minutes, 47 seconds
> 
> After further review with our risk team, we will be unable to honor the payout for the flagged trip in question. In addition, we will be offsetting a total of $142.67 from future earnings for previously prearranged ride(s). Please note, under the Terms of Service, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of Ride Fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, it is important to never prearrange rides with passengers as any attempt to defraud Lyft or Riders on the Lyft Platform or in connection with your provision of Services could put your account at risk of deactivation.
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> Woah hold up a minute. First of all nothing was misused. Definitely no fraud. Clearly Lyft didn't really think anything fraudulent had occurred I mean unless they have a habit of allowing people who are committing fraud to remain drivers, as I still to this day can sign in to drive. Except not only are they not paying me for the recent trip, they're deducting from my other funds from other trips, the payment from another trip they have already verified. It seems they can arbitrarily at any time decide that a trip, whether verified or not, is no longer mine and now I owe them. Since they had my funds in hock holding for verification, even 140 or so that was from other trips (and tips which I will mention in a moment). Is now theres to hold.
> 
> Tips are protected. Not wages. Tips are the sole property of the recipient. I am this recipient not Lyft. Lyft does not have the right to take my tips as per FLSA. Even if I owe them money, tips are not part of the wages that are negotiable funds for alleviating that debt. This has been held time and time again. This is an aside but worth mentioning as it shows the lack of ethics and regard for the law beyond them simply hijacking my pay for the rides and service rendered.
> 
> So I've been back and forth with them. Well more me than them. I messaged on Twitter and on Facebook. I was told that Alexander would get back to me. He did. Same message boilerplate as before:
> 
> "
> We regret to inform you that after additional consideration we are unable to honor the payout for the aforementioned flagged trips. To reiterate, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, any attempt to defraud Lyft or Lyft riders, or in connection with your provision of services, could put your account at risk of deactivation
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> So basically it was no response. Just the same adlib fill in the blank.
> 
> I asked for information about what leads then to believe misuse had occurred. I asked for what I could provide to show them that bo such fraud or misuse was present on any trip I've driven. I asked them to explain why I was being treated as if I'd done something wrong when I go out of my way to follow the rules and most assuredly have never maliciously, as they suggest, done anything to profit from some wrongdoing.
> 
> It seems Lyft has the belief they can arbitrarily not pay a driver without any need for explanation. I messaged again after this last email and was told I would hear back from Alexander. I waited a few more days, going on 3 now, and I messaged them back on Facebook at which point I was told I would not be hearing any further that this ticket was closed and the decision final. I'm...I don't even know. I did nothing wrong except drive for Lyft.


----------



## freeFromUber

aJoe said:


> So did they pay you and say they are taking it out of future earnings, if so just quit,
> 
> Did the customer dispute the ride?


Don't "just quit"! Get your money...your earned it, and are entitled to it...consider a law suit...THEN QUIT!


----------



## SEAL Team 5

Uberk5487 said:


> Aww you are so loyal to your slave master.....they gonna end up giving you a extra badge....


Accepted my first Uber ride in Oct 2012, and have never accepted an Uber fare for less than $5/mile ($4.15/mile & $.40/min). SUV drivers don't receive badges, instead we make $2k/wk. BTW, I can legally accept any fare any time any where.


----------



## Uberk5487

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Accepted my first Uber ride in Oct 2012, and have never accepted an Uber fare for less than $5/mile ($4.15/mile & $.40/min). SUV drivers don't receive badges, instead we make $2k/wk. BTW, I can legally accept any fare any time any where.


Well screenshot your pay out showing you net 2k a week.....I would assume a sub burns over $300 a week in gas.....


----------



## UberMensch3000

Uberk5487 said:


> Aww you are so loyal to your slave master.....they gonna end up giving you a extra badge....


No. That's the explanation as to WHY it was considered fraudulent. 
Reading comprehension, it's a thing



SEAL Team 5 said:


> Accepted my first Uber ride in Oct 2012, and have never accepted an Uber fare for less than $5/mile ($4.15/mile & $.40/min). SUV drivers don't receive badges, instead we make $2k/wk. BTW, I can legally accept any fare any time any where.


I believe this guy's issue ( or actually Lyft's issue ) was that the ride was arranged outside of Lyft and then completed inside the app. While I don't personally see an issue with it, I'm sure there is one I'm just not picturing atm. As for; "I can legally accept any fare any time any where", not sure about your area atm, but you'll want to keep on top of your AO's regulations. CT just passed a bunch of garbage as of Jan 1st that basically forbids anyone to operate outside of licensed livery/transpo co's and actual in-app ride-share. Along with a pile of other garbage because CT gov't sux AZZ


----------



## ColdRider

Lorentz said:


> "Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems."
> 
> "Moving forward, it is important to never prearrange rides with passengers as any attempt to defraud Lyft or Riders on the Lyft Platform or in connection with your provision of Services could put your account at risk of deactivation."
> 
> Woah hold up a minute. First of all nothing was misused. Definitely no fraud.
> 
> "...any attempt to defraud Lyft or Lyft riders, or in connection with your provision of services, could put your account at risk of deactivation"


LMAO



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> So that's only $250,000 out of pocket if something happens and they get lawyer happy?


Hey now, there's no room for reason in this forum!



Uberk5487 said:


> Well screenshot your pay out showing you net 2k a week.....I would assume a sub burns over $300 a week in gas.....


That would still leave him with $1700/week.

Do you even make that in a month? Lmao at you


----------



## Uberk5487

ColdRider said:


> LMAO
> 
> Hey now, there's no room for reason in this forum!
> 
> That would still leave him with $1700/week.
> 
> Do you even make that in a month? Lmao at you


I'm not sure he's making anything near that.....Uber wouldn't allow anyone to be that successful.....


----------



## UberMensch3000

I automatically trust and believe each and every claim when the avatar is SEAL Team 5


----------



## Chrisgotcheated

Roselyn said:


> In my experience dealing with Lyft and Uber, I believe that Uber would have resolved this situation better and pay you after several exchanges. You did drive for them and made them make money. Lyft's customer service is horrible. Not that Uber is the best, but for the most part they tend to resolve the issues if you can document them properly and they look reasonable. Don't drive for Lyft anymore. They are also very deceiving because they don't tell you at front exactly how much they are paying you but how much they charged the passenger so that you think you got paid more than you did. Also, the fact that you don't have online access to the specific ride after you have ended it to enter a comment make comments or requests about that ride more difficult. Uber also scams us but at least have a more responsive system.


A more responsive system? In what universe is this happening? They are 100% automated snd not "well done"automated at that. They have quite possibly the worst support ever conceived by intelligent beings. And that is kind of debatable because then you need to concede that uber Engineers are in fact intelligent at some level. The fact is if he keeps fighting it they'll let him keep the second 140 as that was collected but he will never get the original fare. See uber and its little brother Lyft. They are about total control and parking a block away was violating the agreement. The app is supposed to send you uber or Lyft custo
Nets not just be the medium with which your paid. They talked yo your riders who said you were real nice, they called u you stopped a block away and Lyft went what? That's why there doing this. T


----------



## Chrisgotcheated

The bottom line is he went around their dispatching system and on top of that he had coordinated all this outside of the application. If he did so he is obviously trying to avoid one of their jackass rules they put in place to keep you from discovering that they stealing your money at a far higher rate than is obvious and on top of that they getting the client on backside, and to cap it off it's written right into the code. So it's a big game of we gotta shut him down he may get curious what that's about. They are straight up thrives. Make your power bonus out here and go offline but don't shut down the application and they have it programmed to put you online after waiting a few hours then they send you trips until your under 90%. Scandalous people. This money I'm told half goes to entertainment fund for office and other half is special projects. Suffice it to say we buy them allot of pizza. And when you complain they say make sure you go offline oh and ha ha. So this is why they are so scared of not having total control, these also are so interwoven from the stupid way they patch and update that they can't change it at this point it would be a major project . I'll bet anyone on here that our ex fearless leader will see a jail cell by 2020 and not just a few months he's into all kinds of things.


----------



## dirtylee

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> So that's only $250,000 out of pocket if something happens and they get lawyer happy?


Doesn't matter if it's $25 or 50 billion. They get nothing. I drive uber, you think I have assets??


----------



## Chrisgotcheated

Yeah but you wouldn't ever drive uber again. They deduct for everything except air I've sued them over it but is pain in the ass the attorney general in California being the genius he was gave them a get out of suit free card. If you ever sue them make sure you do in federal court where they not protected by that "just a contractor"bullshit.

They wouldn't sue you anyway they covered by insurance on back side. Has anyone on here ever seen James river ever pay off on a policy. Ever?

Oh and you uber fans that say they fair and reasonable go look at any adjustment you've had in last 5 years. You were all cheated even mr. My crap doesn't smell SUV. Uber owes everyone a pile of money. First one to see the way they doing it gets a gold star.


----------



## UBERPROcolorado

Lorentz said:


> "Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems."
> 
> Thing is the only fraud here is them arbitrarily not paying me. But let me not get ahead of myself.
> 
> On May 4th I gave a ride two several students from Alabama A&M University to Birmingham Shuttleworth Airport. This makes sense the Huntsville international airport prices are so high that Lyft to Bham and a ticket to Chicago is cheaper than flying out of here, especially when several riders are splitting the ride share cost. This ride came to me via another driver who had carried them several times to airports to fly out but in the recent let's all switch to Lyft bit riders are doing they called him and said they are using Lyft and asked if he could take them. He said he drives for only Uber and messaged me and told me to head to a&m and if probably get a request for a trip to Bham. No problem. The trip goes without a hitch. I had to wait 3 days before Lyft verified the trip and paid me.
> 
> Now on this past Saturday. I get a text from one of the guys who I carried to Bham. He asked if I'd mind another trip, this time Nashville , his sister now down with her school stuff here was returning to Chicago for mother's day. Not a problem. I go to Madison to the road they live on and wait for the request. I pick her up and drive her to Nashville. All went fine. I grabbed a trip in Nashville at the airport for another 30 dollars to 65s which is on my way and headed back home. As usual all my money is held in "we are currently reviewing the trip" limbo, some $280. On Monday I receive a message from Lyft as follows:
> 
> "Date: May 13, 2017 04:44:59 am
> Mileage: 126.88 miles
> Time: 113 minutes, 47 seconds
> 
> After further review with our risk team, we will be unable to honor the payout for the flagged trip in question. In addition, we will be offsetting a total of $142.67 from future earnings for previously prearranged ride(s). Please note, under the Terms of Service, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of Ride Fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, it is important to never prearrange rides with passengers as any attempt to defraud Lyft or Riders on the Lyft Platform or in connection with your provision of Services could put your account at risk of deactivation.
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> Woah hold up a minute. First of all nothing was misused. Definitely no fraud. Clearly Lyft didn't really think anything fraudulent had occurred I mean unless they have a habit of allowing people who are committing fraud to remain drivers, as I still to this day can sign in to drive. Except not only are they not paying me for the recent trip, they're deducting from my other funds from other trips, the payment from another trip they have already verified. It seems they can arbitrarily at any time decide that a trip, whether verified or not, is no longer mine and now I owe them. Since they had my funds in hock holding for verification, even 140 or so that was from other trips (and tips which I will mention in a moment). Is now theres to hold.
> 
> Tips are protected. Not wages. Tips are the sole property of the recipient. I am this recipient not Lyft. Lyft does not have the right to take my tips as per FLSA. Even if I owe them money, tips are not part of the wages that are negotiable funds for alleviating that debt. This has been held time and time again. This is an aside but worth mentioning as it shows the lack of ethics and regard for the law beyond them simply hijacking my pay for the rides and service rendered.
> 
> So I've been back and forth with them. Well more me than them. I messaged on Twitter and on Facebook. I was told that Alexander would get back to me. He did. Same message boilerplate as before:
> 
> "
> We regret to inform you that after additional consideration we are unable to honor the payout for the aforementioned flagged trips. To reiterate, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, any attempt to defraud Lyft or Lyft riders, or in connection with your provision of services, could put your account at risk of deactivation
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> So basically it was no response. Just the same adlib fill in the blank.
> 
> I asked for information about what leads then to believe misuse had occurred. I asked for what I could provide to show them that bo such fraud or misuse was present on any trip I've driven. I asked them to explain why I was being treated as if I'd done something wrong when I go out of my way to follow the rules and most assuredly have never maliciously, as they suggest, done anything to profit from some wrongdoing.
> 
> It seems Lyft has the belief they can arbitrarily not pay a driver without any need for explanation. I messaged again after this last email and was told I would hear back from Alexander. I waited a few more days, going on 3 now, and I messaged them back on Facebook at which point I was told I would not be hearing any further that this ticket was closed and the decision final. I'm...I don't even know. I did nothing wrong except drive for Lyft.


FYI...both Uber and Lyft have unfettered access to your texts, emails, photos, camera and audio, while you are on line.


----------



## Oscar Levant

Kodyhead said:


> Lyft considers prearranged rides fraud i went through the same issue, i try my best to switch them to uber. I am sure uber considers it fraud as well but not policed like lyft. If necessary to take lyft just don't be near the pax and be down the street so it looks "organic" as lyft calls it but risk deactivation.
> 
> Although i get some nice premier rides from time to time, i can go without lyft because they simply blow


I've never had problems with Uber on long trips. I've had trips as much as $500, and many over $200 ( on UberBlack, though) Ive had a number of $125 trips on UberX. What I would like to know is how did Lyft know it was prearranged?


----------



## Chrisgotcheated

UBERPROcolorado said:


> FYI...both Uber and Lyft have unfettered access to your texts, emails, photos, camera and audio, while you are on line.


Technically you did abuse the system as much as I hate to say it. What if another driver was sitting idle in the area you drove to from wherever it should have been his fare if he were in closer proximity before your pal turned you onto it. That's their whole arguement. Line jumping. But they shouldn't keep your money if they have an issue they should suspend or deactivate not just hijack your money. File a federal suit. They'll pay you then deactivate you and then you can sue under whistle blower statutes. The good thing is they are totally corrupted and think there agreement you sign off on is law. Allot of their agreement falls apart under court scrutiny. Their lawyers are as clueless as their administrators and engineers. Always the cheapest money can buy, spare every expense. I don't think uber thought it would survive once
They went to court so they set everything up to bleed the riders and drivers as quickly as they could. Possession is 9/10ths of the right. But the civil servant lawyers were even stupider than their lawyers were so they still here to their amazement.



Oscar Levant said:


> I've never had problems with Uber on long trips. I've had trips as much as $500, and many over $200 ( on UberBlack, though) Ive had a number of $125 trips on UberX. What I would like to know is how did Lyft know it was prearranged?


They called your rider

Well that's an easy one, they called your rider after seeing you drove all the way over there without a fare and then waited a few blocks away from riders house. I'm sure they referenced her trip history too and saw that you did same for her before, hence the additional 140 bucks. Should have completely signed out of the application until you needed to be on it to get trip.



Lorentz said:


> Prearrangement is what Lyft does. Lyft and Uber alike are prearrangement TNCs. How does that make sense. The whole reason this was even done is because they fly out like this often and in the past Theyve had to request different drivers, with Uber , up to 5 or 6 times as many are part time and family drivers who didn't have time. Up to even missing a flight once. The other driver who usually carries them is Uber only and they now use Lyft.... You can't simply say it's fraud because of where I was asked to park my car prior to them requesting the ride via the app, and there is literally nothing in their tos about this I can find.


Yes exactly it is what Lyft does but they look at it as line jumping. If no one will take the ride it keeps going until it finds s driver for them. As far as they are concerned it's none of you business whether or not they get a ride to airport and your cutting ahead of other guys who are supposed to get the opportunity of the trip before you did. As I said your guilty of what they say you are. Sucks but their whole agreement sucks. Is what happens when you deal with scum bags. Get used to it and expect worse I could tell you stuff that's Lyft policy which is overtly illegal that they do but they know no precedent for it exhists as the whole industry is new. They will continue to screw everyone every chance they get. They and uber are so reviled that if you apply for a job and uber or lyft is on your resume and you were there longer than 30 days you are 
not eligible to work for them ever because they think you must have very low integrity and a horrible viewpoint if you didn't immediately give notice upon seeing the type of business that's done there. Uber is famous as being of the mind set of screw whomever to get ahead and actually encourage internal battles. The paranoid narcissism of the fearless leader as he was referred to here bled on everyone. The culture at uber is as negative as HP's was positive pre- Carly Fiorina. Is grotesque.
M



Lorentz said:


> Is arbitration even viable. From what I read it's fairly clear that it tends to favor the client. I'll have to hunt his email down.


Well you'll lose unless they have something they don't want made public knowledge. You did exactly what they saying you did. They just arrogant and don't think they need to bother with being specific like in a real business.



elelegido said:


> Nah... there's nothing in the Lyft driver agreement that says drivers are not allowed to discuss upcoming trips with pax and then go to the pax' location just before the trip and try to get the ping.


Sure there is in a bunch of places. Any communication to any passenger not done through the application itself is absolutely forbidden even if they leave stuff in your car. Giving a passenger your # here is automatic deactivation even if you get it for social reasons. Now they getting crazy about it because of all the stories about how often we get laid on the job here.


----------



## Oscar Levant

[QUOTE="Chrisgotcheated, post: 3282593]

They called your rider

Well that's an easy one, they called your rider after seeing you drove all the way over there without a fare and then waited a few blocks away from riders house. I'm sure they referenced her trip history too and saw that you did same for her before, hence the additional 140 bucks. Should have completely signed out of the application until you needed to be on it to get trip.

[/QUOTE]

I've done this many times with Uber and never one complaint from management.


----------



## Driver2448

Lorentz said:


> "Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems."
> 
> Thing is the only fraud here is them arbitrarily not paying me. But let me not get ahead of myself.
> 
> On May 4th I gave a ride two several students from Alabama A&M University to Birmingham Shuttleworth Airport. This makes sense the Huntsville international airport prices are so high that Lyft to Bham and a ticket to Chicago is cheaper than flying out of here, especially when several riders are splitting the ride share cost. This ride came to me via another driver who had carried them several times to airports to fly out but in the recent let's all switch to Lyft bit riders are doing they called him and said they are using Lyft and asked if he could take them. He said he drives for only Uber and messaged me and told me to head to a&m and if probably get a request for a trip to Bham. No problem. The trip goes without a hitch. I had to wait 3 days before Lyft verified the trip and paid me.
> 
> Now on this past Saturday. I get a text from one of the guys who I carried to Bham. He asked if I'd mind another trip, this time Nashville , his sister now down with her school stuff here was returning to Chicago for mother's day. Not a problem. I go to Madison to the road they live on and wait for the request. I pick her up and drive her to Nashville. All went fine. I grabbed a trip in Nashville at the airport for another 30 dollars to 65s which is on my way and headed back home. As usual all my money is held in "we are currently reviewing the trip" limbo, some $280. On Monday I receive a message from Lyft as follows:
> 
> "Date: May 13, 2017 04:44:59 am
> Mileage: 126.88 miles
> Time: 113 minutes, 47 seconds
> 
> After further review with our risk team, we will be unable to honor the payout for the flagged trip in question. In addition, we will be offsetting a total of $142.67 from future earnings for previously prearranged ride(s). Please note, under the Terms of Service, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of Ride Fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, it is important to never prearrange rides with passengers as any attempt to defraud Lyft or Riders on the Lyft Platform or in connection with your provision of Services could put your account at risk of deactivation.
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> Woah hold up a minute. First of all nothing was misused. Definitely no fraud. Clearly Lyft didn't really think anything fraudulent had occurred I mean unless they have a habit of allowing people who are committing fraud to remain drivers, as I still to this day can sign in to drive. Except not only are they not paying me for the recent trip, they're deducting from my other funds from other trips, the payment from another trip they have already verified. It seems they can arbitrarily at any time decide that a trip, whether verified or not, is no longer mine and now I owe them. Since they had my funds in hock holding for verification, even 140 or so that was from other trips (and tips which I will mention in a moment). Is now theres to hold.
> 
> Tips are protected. Not wages. Tips are the sole property of the recipient. I am this recipient not Lyft. Lyft does not have the right to take my tips as per FLSA. Even if I owe them money, tips are not part of the wages that are negotiable funds for alleviating that debt. This has been held time and time again. This is an aside but worth mentioning as it shows the lack of ethics and regard for the law beyond them simply hijacking my pay for the rides and service rendered.
> 
> So I've been back and forth with them. Well more me than them. I messaged on Twitter and on Facebook. I was told that Alexander would get back to me. He did. Same message boilerplate as before:
> 
> "
> We regret to inform you that after additional consideration we are unable to honor the payout for the aforementioned flagged trips. To reiterate, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, any attempt to defraud Lyft or Lyft riders, or in connection with your provision of services, could put your account at risk of deactivation
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> So basically it was no response. Just the same adlib fill in the blank.
> 
> I asked for information about what leads then to believe misuse had occurred. I asked for what I could provide to show them that bo such fraud or misuse was present on any trip I've driven. I asked them to explain why I was being treated as if I'd done something wrong when I go out of my way to follow the rules and most assuredly have never maliciously, as they suggest, done anything to profit from some wrongdoing.
> 
> It seems Lyft has the belief they can arbitrarily not pay a driver without any need for explanation. I messaged again after this last email and was told I would hear back from Alexander. I waited a few more days, going on 3 now, and I messaged them back on Facebook at which point I was told I would not be hearing any further that this ticket was closed and the decision final. I'm...I don't even know. I did nothing wrong except drive for Lyft.


Look up your state's labor laws. I'm in California and since we're a snowflake state all wages are protected and the employer may have to pay a penalty for unpaid or delayed wages. Your state laws might be worth taking a look at. Or you could possibly threaten to take them to small claims court but you might need to call the passengers to act as witnesses.


----------



## WalkingDead

aJoe said:


> Why is it fraud, if the customer pays does Lyft keep the money because they claim fraud, that's fraud on their part.


That is EXACTLY what I was thinking. Reading the OP, and follow up I would be livid about taking an extra $140 that was not in question. I told my husband when we started driving that I was taking my money out everyday, or every two days. He thought I was cray for paying the extra .50 cents per transaction. Better in my hands than in theirs. You NEVER know when a company will go out of business. I worked as a travel agent for 10 years. We sold travel insurance and there was always another travel partner supplier I would have to put on my "Do Not Book List" because they could go into bankruptcy at any time.


----------



## SMH Uber

UBERPROcolorado said:


> FYI...both Uber and Lyft have unfettered access to your texts, emails, photos, camera and audio, while you are on line.


No they dont, if you dont give the app permission. the only per.ission U or L have is to get my mocation. I turned everything else off. If they do have access to that then I have a lawsuit.









OP, Lorentz This thread was orginally from May. Do you have any updates for us on this case?

I hope you got your money.


----------



## AnneDieringer

I'm now fighting with lyft over this exact same issue, two rides through the app, one for nearly $200, the other nearly $300! They say I prearranged them, and now my account is showing a negative of over $600! Not sure where the additional amount is from. How do I find an executive on LinkedIn?


----------



## njn

Bringing back the dead. Prearranged rides still are prohibited, why would you attempt this and expect a different outcome?


----------



## AnneDieringer

njn said:


> Bringing back the dead. Prearranged rides still are prohibited, why would you attempt this and expect a different outcome?


I didn't attempt anything. I didn't pre arrange the rides, they claim I did. I am trying to get them to reverse their incorrect assumption.


----------



## UberBeemer

Let me see. Rider requested you to be in the area, because they felt safe, and you provided good service. Rider used the app to request a ride, and you got the ping based on proximity. You accepted, then provided the ride. They paid lyft. Lyft then paid you, but eventually changed their mind, and took money away, despite having been paid themselves. Sounds like theft of services. You could file in small claims.


----------



## AnneDieringer

UberBeemer said:


> Let me see. Rider requested you to be in the area, because they felt safe, and you provided good service. Rider used the app to request a ride, and you got the ping based on proximity. You accepted, then provided the ride. They paid lyft. Lyft then paid you, but eventually changed their mind, and took money away, despite having been paid themselves. Sounds like theft of services. You could file in small claims.


This is basically it, except for the first part. The rider did not request me, specifically, I was simply the closest driver at the time.


----------



## BigRedDriver

I haven’t read the whole thread, got though a couple dozen posts before I realized it was resurrected. 

But I smell a rider scam being put in place. 

How the he!! Would Lyft know these were prearranged if THE RIDER didn’t tell Lyft?


----------



## UberBeemer

From my point of view, the riders gamed the system by asking you to be their driver. You did not try to get paid for not working, you did not try to influence surge or rates. You tried to privide service to somebody that appreciated you as a driver. As long as you recieved the ping, it was their system that dispatched the ride. It could have gone to another driver. You had no control over that.


----------



## Uber1010

Lorentz said:


> "Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems."
> 
> Thing is the only fraud here is them arbitrarily not paying me. But let me not get ahead of myself.
> 
> On May 4th I gave a ride two several students from Alabama A&M University to Birmingham Shuttleworth Airport. This makes sense the Huntsville international airport prices are so high that Lyft to Bham and a ticket to Chicago is cheaper than flying out of here, especially when several riders are splitting the ride share cost. This ride came to me via another driver who had carried them several times to airports to fly out but in the recent let's all switch to Lyft bit riders are doing they called him and said they are using Lyft and asked if he could take them. He said he drives for only Uber and messaged me and told me to head to a&m and if probably get a request for a trip to Bham. No problem. The trip goes without a hitch. I had to wait 3 days before Lyft verified the trip and paid me.
> 
> Now on this past Saturday. I get a text from one of the guys who I carried to Bham. He asked if I'd mind another trip, this time Nashville , his sister now down with her school stuff here was returning to Chicago for mother's day. Not a problem. I go to Madison to the road they live on and wait for the request. I pick her up and drive her to Nashville. All went fine. I grabbed a trip in Nashville at the airport for another 30 dollars to 65s which is on my way and headed back home. As usual all my money is held in "we are currently reviewing the trip" limbo, some $280. On Monday I receive a message from Lyft as follows:
> 
> "Date: May 13, 2017 04:44:59 am
> Mileage: 126.88 miles
> Time: 113 minutes, 47 seconds
> 
> After further review with our risk team, we will be unable to honor the payout for the flagged trip in question. In addition, we will be offsetting a total of $142.67 from future earnings for previously prearranged ride(s). Please note, under the Terms of Service, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of Ride Fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, it is important to never prearrange rides with passengers as any attempt to defraud Lyft or Riders on the Lyft Platform or in connection with your provision of Services could put your account at risk of deactivation.
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> Woah hold up a minute. First of all nothing was misused. Definitely no fraud. Clearly Lyft didn't really think anything fraudulent had occurred I mean unless they have a habit of allowing people who are committing fraud to remain drivers, as I still to this day can sign in to drive. Except not only are they not paying me for the recent trip, they're deducting from my other funds from other trips, the payment from another trip they have already verified. It seems they can arbitrarily at any time decide that a trip, whether verified or not, is no longer mine and now I owe them. Since they had my funds in hock holding for verification, even 140 or so that was from other trips (and tips which I will mention in a moment). Is now theres to hold.
> 
> Tips are protected. Not wages. Tips are the sole property of the recipient. I am this recipient not Lyft. Lyft does not have the right to take my tips as per FLSA. Even if I owe them money, tips are not part of the wages that are negotiable funds for alleviating that debt. This has been held time and time again. This is an aside but worth mentioning as it shows the lack of ethics and regard for the law beyond them simply hijacking my pay for the rides and service rendered.
> 
> So I've been back and forth with them. Well more me than them. I messaged on Twitter and on Facebook. I was told that Alexander would get back to me. He did. Same message boilerplate as before:
> 
> "
> We regret to inform you that after additional consideration we are unable to honor the payout for the aforementioned flagged trips. To reiterate, Lyft reserves the right to withhold all or a portion of ride fees if it believes that you have attempted to defraud or abuse Lyft or Lyft's payment systems.
> 
> Moving forward, any attempt to defraud Lyft or Lyft riders, or in connection with your provision of services, could put your account at risk of deactivation
> 
> Alexander"
> 
> So basically it was no response. Just the same adlib fill in the blank.
> 
> I asked for information about what leads then to believe misuse had occurred. I asked for what I could provide to show them that bo such fraud or misuse was present on any trip I've driven. I asked them to explain why I was being treated as if I'd done something wrong when I go out of my way to follow the rules and most assuredly have never maliciously, as they suggest, done anything to profit from some wrongdoing.
> 
> It seems Lyft has the belief they can arbitrarily not pay a driver without any need for explanation. I messaged again after this last email and was told I would hear back from Alexander. I waited a few more days, going on 3 now, and I messaged them back on Facebook at which point I was told I would not be hearing any further that this ticket was closed and the decision final. I'm...I don't even know. I did nothing wrong except drive for Lyft.
> I suggest you to go to Lyft hub ..their duty are to investigate what going on ....if they refuse to pay and you have the evidence of your trip you can sue them for allot of money ..


----------



## Kodyhead

aJoe said:


> But if the customers paid what's their gripe that your prearranged the rides? You still got the ping so who cares
> 
> What are you not telling us, I dont' really understand your story.


Because Lyft considers it fraud. Nothing illegal legally.

Always have a square reader


----------



## Irishjohn831

I would add a small claims court petition at your local court with all fees and loss of income due to filing. 

They won’t show and you get a judgement with interest.


----------



## Trafficat

aJoe said:


> But if the customers paid what's their gripe that your prearranged the rides? You still got the ping so who cares


Lyft would prefer you arrange cash trips and cut them out of the loop entirely, lol!


----------



## Jo3030

AnneDieringer said:


> I'm now fighting with lyft over this exact same issue, two rides through the app, one for nearly $200, the other nearly $300! They say I prearranged them, and now my account is showing a negative of over $600! Not sure where the additional amount is from. How do I find an executive on LinkedIn?


Is this their new scam?


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

I would take this to the news...


----------



## PilotInSac

find out which of your local nbc/cbs/abc affiliates does a consumer-affairs type segment on the news. contact them, they love sticking it to big companies when the "little guy" is getting screwed. Once the media is involved, they'll pay attention.


----------



## Gilby

Irishjohn831 said:


> I would add a small claims court petition at your local court with all fees and loss of income due to filing.
> 
> They won't show and you get a judgement with interest.


But they won't pay and you will never be able to collect. That's the problem with small claims judgments against some entity that is not local.


----------

