# Dashcam complaint. To reply or not to reply?



## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

So yesterday I have a rider who asked me about my dash cam. He said "you have a camera?" with a tone like he thought he was catching me doing something or I would be ashamed or apologetic. With pride and confidence I said "yes sir, two of them". This rider was very astute for noticing the cameras. They're right out in the open, one mounted on the front windshield and another clipped onto the rearview mirror. They both have obvious flashing record lights on them. Oh, and I also have six stickers on my vehicle announcing the cameras presence. Four on the outside of the vehicle and two on the inside. Perhaps he was merely mildly observant.

Fast forward to today. This comes into my inbox:

_"Follow-Up from Lyft Safety_
_
Hi J. XXXXXXX

I am hoping to follow up with you regarding a report we received which alleged that you had a dash cam in your vehicle.

As a reminder, you are legally obligated to obey all regulations regarding video and voice recordings. We strongly encourage drivers to follow all applicable laws to ensure the safety and comfort of your passengers. If you choose to install any cameras in your vehicle, it is your responsibility to be in compliance with the law at all times.

Safety is our top priority here, and we take these matters very seriously. Any reports which allege violations of such laws may lead to the immediate deactivation of your account on the Lyft platform.

Best,

XXXXXX_
_Lyft Support"_

I wrote a reply stating that although I operate in a state which only requires single party consent meaning that since I am the one who installed the cameras and am aware of their presence I neither have to inform nor ask consent from anyone entering my vehicle in order to record them legally. I also attached pictures of my stickers on the inside and outside of the vehicle informing riders of the camera's presence.

However, before I sent the message I started thinking. The message from Lyft does not require a response. In a court of law a lawyer will advise you to say the least possible in order to answer a question. Don't offer or volunteer information. This is often good advice outside of the quart room as well.

Since lift is not requiring a response as far as they are concerned the matter is handled. They are merely advising me to be sure I am complying with the law, which I am.

So I'm curious what other folks would do in a situation like this. I could provide them my response including the photos which shows that I am operating both legally and ethically ethically. However this would merely keep the topic alive and provide opportunity for further scrutiny. Given that I've got nothing to gain at this point should I just let sleeping dogs lie?

p.s.

I have already decided what I will do should I have a rider who objects to the cameras presence.I will cancel or end the ride and suggest they find a different driver.


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## Jihad Me At Hello (Jun 18, 2018)

I use a Vantrue Pro and it NEVER gets turned off. For an email like that (I also live in a one party consent state) I would just trash it


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

If someone asks, I explain it's for their and my protection. If they have a problem it's end ride or cancel.


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## Normanite (Jun 28, 2017)

I jyst say that it’s for driver and passenger safety.


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## JasonLV23 (Sep 4, 2017)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So yesterday I have a rider who asked me about my dash cam. He said "you have a camera?" with a tone like he thought he was catching me doing something or I would be ashamed or apologetic. With pride and confidence I said "yes sir, two of them". This rider was very astute for noticing the cameras. They're right out in the open, one mounted on the front windshield and another clipped onto the rearview mirror. They both have obvious flashing record lights on them. Oh, and I also have six stickers on my vehicle announcing the cameras presence. Four on the outside of the vehicle and two on the inside. Perhaps he was merely mildly observant.
> 
> Fast forward to today. This comes into my inbox:
> 
> ...


Don't waste your time or effort writing such a detailed response. It's only going to a bunch of incompetent morons in the Philippines getting used even more so and under paid as we are.

Go the to Lyft Hub IF and only IF it results in deactivation. Even if it came to that I would consider that a blessing in disguise... move on to bigger and better things for you and your future in that case.



LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So yesterday I have a rider who asked me about my dash cam. He said "you have a camera?" with a tone like he thought he was catching me doing something or I would be ashamed or apologetic. With pride and confidence I said "yes sir, two of them". This rider was very astute for noticing the cameras. They're right out in the open, one mounted on the front windshield and another clipped onto the rearview mirror. They both have obvious flashing record lights on them. Oh, and I also have six stickers on my vehicle announcing the cameras presence. Four on the outside of the vehicle and two on the inside. Perhaps he was merely mildly observant.
> 
> Fast forward to today. This comes into my inbox:
> 
> ...


Also... your PS... that would also work because if you complete the ride after they are pissed off they will retaliate and rate you a 1 star. Don't give these pieces of crap a chance to do such!


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

When I was driving, I did not have a cam. But, I had a sign hanging from the mirror that said that I did. If asked, I'd point to the mirror which had a green light in the lower corner and a small hole in the center, and I'd tell them that that was the cam. "And it beams to the cloud, so there's no internal chip to be messed with ..."

I had a young buck get in once, a little bit ganged up (a wanna be). He looks at the sign and says, "You got a cam in here?" Yep, says I, and point to the mirror. "You gotta have a sign up if you have a cam, right?" I replied that's the law. "And, if I don't want to be recorded, you have to turn it off?" Nope, says I, 'All I have to do is pull over and let you out - do you want out?'

He says, "On the freeway?" I told him that he's an adult and I'd let him out wherever he wants out, and repeated my offer. He said that he didn't want out. 
It was a quiet ride from then on.


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## SJCorolla (Jul 12, 2017)

Do these people ever complain about the cameras they encounter inside taxis, buses, trains, etc? or somehow think rideshare vehicles belong in the same category as restrooms, tanning salons, locker rooms, and hotel bedrooms.


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## RideshareUSA (Feb 7, 2019)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So yesterday I have a rider who asked me about my dash cam. He said "you have a camera?" with a tone like he thought he was catching me doing something or I would be ashamed or apologetic. With pride and confidence I said "yes sir, two of them". This rider was very astute for noticing the cameras. They're right out in the open, one mounted on the front windshield and another clipped onto the rearview mirror. They both have obvious flashing record lights on them. Oh, and I also have six stickers on my vehicle announcing the cameras presence. Four on the outside of the vehicle and two on the inside. Perhaps he was merely mildly observant.
> 
> Fast forward to today. This comes into my inbox:
> 
> ...


Stop working the drunk hours and 99.9% of these issues, disappear.


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## PioneerXi (Apr 20, 2018)

Reread the last paragraph from Lyft re “any reports”.

Send an email back to them asking if there was a complaint lodged, and the exact details of the complaint. Ask them for the allegations to warrant the email.

I’m all for drawing these companies out, have them “show their hand” before entering into any correspondence.

I operate for them to put up or shut up.


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## RideshareUSA (Feb 7, 2019)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So yesterday I have a rider who asked me about my dash cam. He said "you have a camera?" with a tone like he thought he was catching me doing something or I would be ashamed or apologetic. With pride and confidence I said "yes sir, two of them". This rider was very astute for noticing the cameras. They're right out in the open, one mounted on the front windshield and another clipped onto the rearview mirror. They both have obvious flashing record lights on them. Oh, and I also have six stickers on my vehicle announcing the cameras presence. Four on the outside of the vehicle and two on the inside. Perhaps he was merely mildly observant.
> 
> Fast forward to today. This comes into my inbox:
> 
> ...


Your response:
"I always operate in compliance with all applicable laws when using the Lyft driver platform. Future complaints of this nature can be disregarded by Lyft. Thank you "


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## Edmuber (May 1, 2019)

tell the pax that the camera is on a loop of 5 minutes, when they get out the camera will be recording over the last 5 minutes if the trip goes well, if there is an accident the camera stops recording.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Edmuber said:


> tell the pax that the camera is on a loop of 5 minutes, when they get out the camera will be recording over the last 5 minutes if the trip goes well, if there is an accident the camera stops recording.


Though I have said that in the past as a way to defuse the situation, I have no problem telling them the truth which is it's really for my protection because sometimes riders make false claims.


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

Dear Lyft Safety Team.

Piss Off.


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So yesterday I have a rider who asked me about my dash cam. He said "you have a camera?" with a tone like he thought he was catching me doing something or I would be ashamed or apologetic. With pride and confidence I said "yes sir, two of them". This rider was very astute for noticing the cameras. They're right out in the open, one mounted on the front windshield and another clipped onto the rearview mirror. They both have obvious flashing record lights on them. Oh, and I also have six stickers on my vehicle announcing the cameras presence. Four on the outside of the vehicle and two on the inside. Perhaps he was merely mildly observant.
> 
> Fast forward to today. This comes into my inbox:
> 
> ...


"_The message from Lyft does not require a response"_

I concur with ur assessment ✅

?and APPLAUD YOU for NOT having the TYPICAL ⚠ DRIVER
☠ Knee Jerk ?reaction:

A. taking emotional exception to the inquiry
B. escalating the issue and treating as a personal affront
C. with a neonatal scathing response
D. ladened with foul language
accusations and paranoia


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## RideshareUSA (Feb 7, 2019)

RabbleRouser said:


> "_The message from Lyft does not require a response"_
> 
> I concur with ur assessment ✅
> 
> ...


WTF?


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

RideshareUSA said:


> WTF?


?? "WTF" ??

thx u for illustrating the "knee jerk" driver reaction


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## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

Dear Lyft Safety Team:
My dashcam footage is streamed in real time to the VoyeurVision.com website so that subscriber fees can supplement the meager payments received from Lyft riders. For a substantial tip, I will disconnect the feed. 

I also use the video surveillance of my vehicle to collect incriminating evidence against riders. If a rider wishes to prevent their employer or spouse from receiving the video of their ride, I accept cash or bitcoin. 

For any further questions, please contact my attorney, Saul Goodman.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> Safety is our top priority here, and we take these matters very seriously.


Lol, Lyft alleges that every pax complaint is a safety issue, no matter what the complaint is. It's a knee-jerk reaction. They once claimed to me that taking service animals was a safety issue whereas, in reality, it is a matter regarding equality of access rights for the disabled. Anyway, obviously dashcams _are_ related to safety, but not they're not a safety issue - their purpose is to _alleviate_ the safety issue for drivers.

But don't worry about the email. It's just Lyft sending out nonsense to be able to check a little box that they have "resolved" the complaint. It's meaningless.


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## DaFu (May 20, 2019)

That's exactly why I keep a mini HD wireless camera hidden in my center console and pointed towards the backseats waist level. No signs posted. This helps to maintain the safety & security in my vehicle.


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

If you're doing it full time, then I would just let it go. If you're doing it part time and are bored, send Lyft an email asking them when they brought you on as an EMPLOYEE. Ask them when your benefits kick in, and how much they match on 401(k). Ask them when you can start taking advantage of your vacation days. Also, ask them when your car allowance payment is going to appear in your wages. I can imagine some dope that composes canned responses shitting themselves when they read your reply.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Reply to Lyft and have a 82% chance of receiving a reply to your reply, like this:

_Deerst Misters Fuwabolewa (nice name bys way):

Reachings outs apreshiates. All those you think can do, can'ts. Simplys becuaz do's don't. We haves puts your accounts on holds durinng envestigations and apreshiates patients. Its understandingss and pleasurs for keeps customer happys. Don'ts do things we say don'ts!

Rohit Suwadolame

P.S. Whaats is thiz states you speeks of?_


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So yesterday I have a rider who asked me about my dash cam. He said "you have a camera?" with a tone like he thought he was catching me doing something or I would be ashamed or apologetic. With pride and confidence I said "yes sir, two of them". This rider was very astute for noticing the cameras. They're right out in the open, one mounted on the front windshield and another clipped onto the rearview mirror. They both have obvious flashing record lights on them. Oh, and I also have six stickers on my vehicle announcing the cameras presence. Four on the outside of the vehicle and two on the inside. Perhaps he was merely mildly observant.
> 
> Fast forward to today. This comes into my inbox:
> 
> ...


The single party consent is irrelevant. It pertains to covert recordings such as wiretaps or recording phone calls.

The litmus test is whether they have a reasonable expectation of privacy. They are in your car, on public roads, so no.


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## Coyotex (Feb 10, 2019)

I have a sign that says "Smile, you're on air", written on a small erase board just below my radio. Oh, and the camera is clearly visible. A lot of people chuckle when they realize the sign means there is a camera recording them. The drunk college girls always want to write on the board then take pictures of it. lol

Yesterday, 2 guys got in and say "is that a camera?" I said yep. They said they've been taking ubers all weekend and I'm the only one with a camera and then ask if I'm Law Enforcement! lol. They were cool.

I just find it strange when a rideshare person does NOT have a camera in their car.


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## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

My stickers say “for the safety of the passengers and driver, this vehicle is equipped with a dash cam.........” They tend to like the idea. 

Sounds like your pax tried to complain to Uber, so some kid sent you a stock email just to close out the case. I don’t think anyone of consequence at Uber ever got involved. You are just one of thousands of people who receive that message every year. As long as your account is still active, there doesn’t seem to be much point in reading any of the messages they send out.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

*"For the safety of all and to prevent fraud, security camera is in use." *

The only reason most people would object to being recorded is because of nefarious intent.

Not here. Not in my car. If they don't agree, all they need to do is notify me and I'll gladly drop them off at the next safe spot.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

TemptingFate said:


> Dear Lyft Safety Team:
> My dashcam footage is streamed in real time to the VoyeurVision.com website so that subscriber fees can supplement the meager payments received from Lyft riders. For a substantial tip, I will disconnect the feed.
> 
> For any further questions, please contact my attorney, Saul Goodman.


+1

"You do not like the camera, Sir?"

"Do you remember the door that got you into my vehicle?"

"Yes?"

"The same one gets you out of my vehicle."

"I must turn it off if you say to? Oh, you are a lawyer?"

"Guess what, Sir, this is Washington. Every third person here is a lawyer; ja, ja, ja. I have a very good one. Call 202.742.3327. The name of the firm is Dewey, Cheatem and Howe; ask to speak to U. Dewey Louie."


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> When I was driving, I did not have a cam. But, I had a sign hanging from the mirror that said that I did. If asked, I'd point to the mirror which had a green light in the lower corner and a small hole in the center, and I'd tell them that that was the cam. "And it beams to the cloud, so there's no internal chip to be messed with ..."
> 
> I had a young buck get in once, a little bit ganged up (a wanna be). He looks at the sign and says, "You got a cam in here?" Yep, says I, and point to the mirror. "You gotta have a sign up if you have a cam, right?" I replied that's the law. "And, if I don't want to be recorded, you have to turn it off?" Nope, says I, 'All I have to do is pull over and let you out - do you want out?'
> 
> ...


If the main purpose of the cam is to keep the pax on their best behavior, this looks like a good way to do it for less.


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## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

It is likely a form letter. Since Lyft probably doesn't know the laws about recording in all the various states and jurisdictions they just push it out as cover for their ass in the event someone is doing something locally illegal.

I would ignore it. If there were a second email from them then read them the riot act. (i guess people know what that phrase means...)


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## estore009 (Oct 14, 2017)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So yesterday I have a rider who asked me about my dash cam. He said "you have a camera?" with a tone like he thought he was catching me doing something or I would be ashamed or apologetic. With pride and confidence I said "yes sir, two of them". This rider was very astute for noticing the cameras. They're right out in the open, one mounted on the front windshield and another clipped onto the rearview mirror. They both have obvious flashing record lights on them. Oh, and I also have six stickers on my vehicle announcing the cameras presence. Four on the outside of the vehicle and two on the inside. Perhaps he was merely mildly observant.
> 
> Fast forward to today. This comes into my inbox:
> 
> ...


Dash camera Audio/Video recording just for security!


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Always be careful how you respond, people give way to much information away that can be disected, wordsmith and used against you. Its just like when you are pulled over by police. (according to my friend who is a lawyer and president of his local Bar Assoc).

Keep it simple: "Thank you, I can confirm that I am in full compliance with all appropriate state laws." End of story nothing else.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

How about almost every city has camera s . Houses have ceras stores have camera I don't think there is anywhere you can go where you aren't on camera

I'm in a one party state also. I don't have anysigns in my car if asked I say yes camera for insurance purposes. So far in a year no one asked to turn off.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

UberBeemer said:


> The single party consent is irrelevant. It pertains to covert recordings such as wiretaps or recording phone calls.
> 
> The litmus test is whether they have a reasonable expectation of privacy. They are in your car, on public roads, so no.


Wrong. Are you saying the law isn't the law? It's just there for decoration? No. Single party consent states mean exactly that. It has nothing to do with expectation of privacy or anything else.

One final comment I want to add. One day I received a message from Lyft saying that I was receiving low ratings for cleanliness and the message also contained a link to information on how to deal with this. I'm sure it was suggestions like take a bath and clean your car.

My personal hygiene and my car are impeccable and I was pretty pissed so I called uplift support. I called up and spoke with an agent and explain the situation that there are some ongoing issues in my market where people of certain areas have ongoing battles with drivers and low rate each other in retaliation. I also offered to send photos of my car which was spotless. The agent remove the low rating.

A lot of times these messages are machine generated when somebody down rates you for a reason the system generates a message with no human intervention or awareness.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Back in the days ...

When I drove cab, I kept a voice activated recorder running. I started doing this after an unfortunate incident, one that resulted in the perp getting months in jail. Had there been a recording, he would have faced decades.

Other drivers snickered. The company rolled their eyes. One guy I helped train listened. He quietly followed my example. When a fare assasinated him, the recording proved critical to finding and convicting the killers. 

Since then I've been a real fan of cameras.


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## wuber88 (Dec 6, 2018)

Jihad Me At Hello said:


> I use a Vantrue Pro and it NEVER gets turned off. For an email like that (I also live in a one party consent state) I would just trash it


Hi, about to install a video cam I just bought (with both forward and cabin cameras and loop recording). Since we are on this subject, I want to find out whether Calif is also a "one party consent state"? Also do I need to put up a sign stating that I have a video camera in the car?
What is the rule as far as putting a video camera in ride hailing cars in Calif.?


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

wuber88 said:


> Hi, about to install a video cam I just bought (with both forward and cabin cameras and loop recording). Since we are on this subject, I want to find out whether Calif is also a "one party consent state"? Also do I need to put up a sign stating that I have a video camera in the car?
> What is the rule as far as putting a video camera in ride hailing cars in Calif.?


I don't know the law in California but I would say that it falls into one of three categories, single party consent, two-party consent, or it's prohibited. I would imagine in two-party consent states you need consent of all the passengers in the car not just the rider who booked the car.

I would definitely say to have the stickers because it encourages good behavior. That's why I put them on my car. Not because I was legally required to or felt a moral responsibility. People tend to act better when they know they're being recorded.

Also if I have any issues with a rider such as them wanting to take a child in the car with no car seat or putting too many passengers in the car for what it can legally carry before I decline the ride I tell them right up front that the conversation is being recorded.

In situations where I can't take a ride because it would be illegal, again for things like no child car seat or too many passengers I also let them know that they need to cancel the ride. I also inform them that if they don't, and I need to cancel the ride, I will be calling up the company and letting them know that the rider was violating the terms of service. That usually gets them to cancel quickly.


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Most of my business is private livery, and only do black and suv in between scheduled rides. I will never install a dashcam


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Wolfgang Faust said:


> Most of my business is private livery, and only do black and suv in between scheduled rides. I will never install a dashcam


 I understand your thinking, which I take it is that your I understand your thinking, which I take it is that your clients wouldn't like it, or you think you have no need, but I think someday something might happen and you'll wish you had a camera.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> Are you saying the law isn't the law? It's just there for decoration?


No. I am simply stating the fact that most people dont understand that the law they refer to is an evesdropping law. It does not pertain to security cameras, which is what a dashcam is.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

UberBeemer said:


> No. I am simply stating the fact that most people dont understand that the law they refer to is an evesdropping law. It does not pertain to security cameras, which is what a dashcam is.


Wrong


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Really, you are mistaken.


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So yesterday I have a rider who asked me about my dash cam. He said "you have a camera?" with a tone like he thought he was catching me doing something or I would be ashamed or apologetic. With pride and confidence I said "yes sir, two of them". This rider was very astute for noticing the cameras. They're right out in the open, one mounted on the front windshield and another clipped onto the rearview mirror. They both have obvious flashing record lights on them. Oh, and I also have six stickers on my vehicle announcing the cameras presence. Four on the outside of the vehicle and two on the inside. Perhaps he was merely mildly observant.
> 
> Fast forward to today. This comes into my inbox:
> 
> ...


People who have problems with dashcams are up to no good. Immediate end ride and give them the boot.



UberBeemer said:


> No. I am simply stating the fact that most people dont understand that the law they refer to is an evesdropping law. It does not pertain to security cameras, which is what a dashcam is.


So you can clandestinely evesdrop with single party consent, but you CANT put a camera in plain view with single party consent....in the same state? Wtf sense does that make? Or did i totally confuse what you have been saying?


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

UberBeemer said:


> Really, you are mistaken.


No.

So you're saying there's electronic recording that's eavesdropping when one person is unaware and electronic recording that's not eavesdropping when one person is unaware?

Define eavesdropping. A hidden tape recorder? What about one sitting on a table in a position so another person can't tell if it's recording? A hidden camera? What about a camera that's out in the open but you can't tell whether or not it's recording? What if there's no recording going on but you have a listening device in your listening in real time?

The law says nothing about the word eavesdropping. In a single-party state if two people are talking and one of them knows there's a recording device in use and the law is satisfied. If party a Rickards party B and C talkin and neither be nor see are aware of the recording device than the law is broken. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with quote-unquote eavesdropping.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

OMG GO! said:


> People who have problems with dashcams are up to no good. Immediate end ride and give them the boot.
> 
> 
> So you can clandestinely evesdrop with single party consent, but you CANT put a camera in plain view with single party consent....in the same state? Wtf sense does that make? Or did i totally confuse what you have been saying?


You cannot clandestinely record without consent. That would be evesdropping.

You can have a security camera or dashcamera without consent, because the passenger has no reasonable expectation of privacy in a stranger's car.



LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So you're saying there's electronic recording that's eavesdropping when one person is unaware and electronic recording that's not eavesdropping when one person is unaware?


Just read what i wrote. Its simple, and clear. Don't add words to it. Your passengers are hiring a private, personally owned/operated car on public roads. The have no reasonable expectation of privacy.


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> You cannot clandestinely record without consent. That would be evesdropping.
> 
> You can have a security camera or dashcamera without consent, because the passenger has no reasonable expectation of privacy in a stranger's car.
> 
> ...


Right so in a single party consent state, no signage is necessary since me, the driver is aware of the camera. Its the other poster that was saying the opposite. I got lost in the back and forth lol


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

OMG GO! said:


> Right so in a single party consent state, no signage is necessary since me, the driver is aware of the camera.


It has nothing to do with consent. You don't need consent. Its your car. Get a camera.

If a pax doesn't want to be recorded, they can choose to call another car. Just get your cancel fee.


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> It has nothing to do with consent. You don't need consent. Its your car. Get a camera.
> 
> If a pax doesn't want to be recorded, they can choose to call another car. Just get your cancel fee.


I coulda swore you were saying the opposite is all, my bad. I run a dash cam, and i like my car too much to put up cheesy signs. I have a long standing rule, anyone who doesnt like the camera gets booted, on first complaint. I dont bother explaining myself beyond "the only people who have a problem with my dash cam are people i dont want in my car"


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

OMG GO! said:


> I coulda swore you were saying the opposite is all, my bad. I run a dash cam, and i like my car too much to put up cheesy signs. I have a long standing rule, anyone who doesnt like the camera gets booted, on first complaint. I dont bother explaining myself beyond "the only people who have a problem with my dash cam are people i dont want in my car"


No worries at all. I don't mind explaining it. Lots of people post on the topic, and a lot have the wrong idea.

One thing you can't do though, is post the footage of someone online without their consent. Particularly to a sight that's monitized by clicks/views, like youtube.


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## Ballermaris (Apr 11, 2019)

I have my own vehicle displaying the warnings signs about recording. I have the same information in my driver bio. Have had only one numnut demand I shut it off. Cancelled the ride, told him to leave, when he did not I brought out my taser, he then ran as fast as his feet could carry him. Never got a complaint about the cancellation.

I work in the Security field so I deal with stupids on a regular basis. I make it a point to state to passenger that if they ask about the camera, to show the a previous video clip. No further questions have been asked.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So yesterday I have a rider who asked me about my dash cam. He said "you have a camera?" with a tone like he thought he was catching me doing something or I would be ashamed or apologetic. With pride and confidence I said "yes sir, two of them". This rider was very astute for noticing the cameras. They're right out in the open, one mounted on the front windshield and another clipped onto the rearview mirror. They both have obvious flashing record lights on them. Oh, and I also have six stickers on my vehicle announcing the cameras presence. Four on the outside of the vehicle and two on the inside. Perhaps he was merely mildly observant.
> 
> Fast forward to today. This comes into my inbox:
> 
> ...


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Your approach is correct. Lyft is only advising you to follow the guidelines of the law. No response on your part is needed. 
And if a pax is uncomfortable being recorded. Your approach is also correct. But I would give them the choice to stay or go, meaning you do not automatically cancel the ride.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Ballermaris said:


> ... Cancelled the ride, told him to leave, when he did not I brought out my taser...


Sounds like BS to me. Had that really happened you could be charged with brandishing a weapon, and if a rider complain to a eideshare company that you brandished a weapon you would certainly be deactivated with no hope of ever being reactivated.


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## El Janitor (Feb 22, 2016)

Does Lyft still do what Uber does? Hijack your mic and camera in your smart phone whenever they feel like it, without having to notify you when they're watching and listening? Hmmmm I wonder is that legal? Hmmmm I wonder let's ask some lawyers and see what they say shall we? maybe I should see if anyone wan't to make an app that notifies you with a pop up saying, " Your microphone and camera are being used, or are trying to be accessed by ______ App?"


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

UberBeemer said:


> You cannot clandestinely record without consent. That would be evesdropping.


You clearly don't understand the law. When they say single party consent that means the other person neither has to consent nor even be aware./informed that the device is there, whether it's on a phone line, a camera in a store, in a car, on a street, in a box, or with a fox. There are exceptions for things of a sexual or perverted nature like putting a camera can a location in order to record someone naked or having sex. It's also illegal to use a recording device add an ATM to steal someone's pin number or some other type of financial theft or fraud. But those uses are illegal because they violate other laws.

It's pretty easy to tell whether you're in a single party or a two-party consent state. In a single party consent state some businesses with security cameras will choose to put up notices as informing people that they're being recorded is to their advantage due to the change in customer Behavior. In a two-party consent State you'll see a at the entrance to the establishment every single time, no exceptions. That's because the person has to be informed of the device and by continuing to enter the premises they implicitly give consent.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

El Janitor said:


> Does Lyft still do what Uber does? Hijack your mic and camera in your smart phone whenever they feel like it, without having to notify you when they're watching and listening? Hmmmm I wonder is that legal? Hmmmm I wonder let's ask some lawyers and see what they say shall we? maybe I should see if anyone wan't to make an app that notifies you with a pop up saying, " Your microphone and camera are being used, or are trying to be accessed by ______ App?"


In Android you can turn those app permissions off after you put on your tinfoil hat


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## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So yesterday I have a rider who asked me about my dash cam. He said "you have a camera?" with a tone like he thought he was catching me doing something or I would be ashamed or apologetic. With pride and confidence I said "yes sir, two of them". This rider was very astute for noticing the cameras. They're right out in the open, one mounted on the front windshield and another clipped onto the rearview mirror. They both have obvious flashing record lights on them. Oh, and I also have six stickers on my vehicle announcing the cameras presence. Four on the outside of the vehicle and two on the inside. Perhaps he was merely mildly observant.
> 
> Fast forward to today. This comes into my inbox:
> 
> ...


 I get the same emails got four of them so far with in the last couple years all I do is throw them in the trash never reply to them and never take your dash cam down protect yourself who cares what those pax think.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

UberBeemer said:


> You cannot clandestinely record without consent. That would be evesdropping.
> 
> You can have a security camera or dashcamera without consent, because the passenger has no reasonable expectation of privacy in a stranger's car.
> 
> ...


It varies state by state. Some states are fine with video recording but not audio recording.

I actually called a lawyer about this when I started Ubering. I drive some in Maryland which has some of the strongest laws in the country about audio recording. (kids Google "Linda Tripp" for an example) and wanted to be sure I was ok legally with a dashcam.

The lawyer said it's a murky area since there hasn't been settled law yet. It's a relatively new area of the law. We're private vehicles but dealing with the public.

She recommended the signs, which I did until drunks pulled them down.

The law isn't always logical.


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## Gandler (Jan 27, 2019)

I have a dash cam and a body cam, as an independtant contractor I have the right to use the tools and equipment to safely perform my task. There are also stickers on windows warning of audio and video recording. I never had an issue with somebody complaining about it.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

I hope no one has cameras arranged as shown in the picture accompanying this thread.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

I wouldn't bother to reply.


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## Dice Man (May 21, 2018)

I got that Email twice in 4000 rides.
Just explain to the passenger that is for our safety.
It is 100% legal as long as you have a sticker.
Anyone driving without a dash cam will feel sorry someday.


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## OMG GO! (Jul 11, 2017)

I should have added, as for the OP, the letter from uber/lyft doesnt require a response. A human didnt generate it, nor will one respnd to you writing back about it. Its fruitless and you aren't in any trouble.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

OMG GO! said:


> I should have added, as for the OP, the letter from uber/lyft doesnt require a response. A human didnt generate it, nor will one respnd to you writing back about it. Its fruitless and you aren't in any trouble.


------------------------
Not to mention that he may draw additional Uber attention to the situation and cause problems from a Support Rep that is not knowledgeable on the subject.


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

For all the pearl clutching over dash cams, I have yet to see an example of a positive benefit on this board. No, “Uber deactivated me till I showed them my footage.” Or, “I was falsely accused of sexual misconduct and because of my cam they’re prosecuting my accuser!” You’d think I would have seen a positive benefit by now...

3 years driving, no accidents, 1 fight, 1 false claim of dui, 9000 rides and no dash cam. Now how important is it to have a dash cam?


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## IMMA DRIVER (Jul 6, 2017)

kc ub'ing! said:


> For all the pearl clutching over dash cams, I have yet to see an example of a positive benefit on this board. No, "Uber deactivated me till I showed them my footage." Or, "I was falsely accused of sexual misconduct and because of my cam they're prosecuting my accuser!" You'd think I would have seen a positive benefit by now...
> 
> 3 years driving, no accidents, 1 fight, 1 false claim of dui, 9000 rides and no dash cam. Now how important is it to have a dash cam?


Point taken.... Also I think if you were required in the driver app to indicate whether you had a dashcam or not, most driver's with a cam would either not get many requests, or ditch their dash cam. I totally understand the protection thing and I find it 100% ok to feel safe, as a driver, in your own car, with a dash cam. 
However; I also see it from a pax eyes. There are some pax that may think, "hmmmm....I had a skirt on, was that driver reviewing his cam to sneak a peek". Or, hmmmm..."that driver has unwarranted footage of my drunken stupor and could be sharing with his friends." Or, hmmmm....I ordered a pizza and used my credit card number, did my Uber driver record that." Or, hmmmm....I had an issue with my Uber driver, we went back and forth, I wonder if the footage will get edited prior to taking them to court."

There are many reasons that a pax may feel unprotected by an Uber driver's dash cam and therefore ask if they're being filmed. But as @kc ub'ing! stated I don't see an abundance of dashcam footage that's helped the driver except for a few YouTube videos.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

New2This said:


> It varies state by state. Some states are fine with video recording but not audio recording


There have been federal appellate decisions that support what i have said. Notice that your lawyer mentioned audio. As i have been telling people for a long time now, a dashcam is akin to a security camera. Unless its hidden, you won't have a problem. Even if you hide it, what do you think will happen? Nothing, unless you're posting footage publicly, especially on a monitized site. Used for persinal security and as evidence of fault in an accident is perfectly lawful.

There was once a store in Chicago called the spy factory. They sold equipment for covert surveillance. ATF and the FBI shut it down. Dashcams, still for sale at major retailers.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

Think Michael Cohen and Trump. In NY. Not a problem.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

UberBeemer said:


> There have been federal appellate decisions that support what i have said. Notice that your lawyer mentioned audio. As i have been telling people for a long time now, a dashcam is akin to a security camera. Unless its hidden, you won't have a problem. Even if you hide it, what do you think will happen? Nothing, unless you're posting footage publicly, especially on a monitized site. Used for persinal security and as evidence of fault in an accident is perfectly lawful.
> 
> There was once a store in Chicago called the spy factory. They sold equipment for covert surveillance. ATF and the FBI shut it down. Dashcams, still for sale at major retailers.


Right. We're on the same side.

The audio comes into play when some drunk chick says "my creepy Uber Driver said something inappropriate" and you want to have evidence.

Legally in some states you may not be able to use the audio if you didn't have everything done properly.

In the real world I run my dashcam with audio and anyone who has a problem with it can GTFOH and GFY.


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## Uberladysf777 (Nov 27, 2018)

Jihad Me At Hello said:


> I use a Vantrue Pro and it NEVER gets turned off. For an email like that (I also live in a one party consent state) I would just trash it


What States is this ok.? I'm thinking of doing it because some of my passengers are a bit.....??‍♀


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

wuber88 said:


> I want to find out whether Calif is also a "one party consent state"? Also do I need to put up a sign stating that I have a video camera in the car?
> What is the rule as far as putting a video camera in ride hailing cars in Calif.?


I found this AMAZING site the other day, called Google. You can look this stuff up in seconds! Give it a try....


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## MiamiUberGuy5 (Feb 20, 2019)

UberBeemer said:


> No. I am simply stating the fact that most people dont understand that the law they refer to is an evesdropping law. It does not pertain to security cameras, which is what a dashcam is.


Security cameras in the private cabin of a car recording audio could be considered wiretapping. That is what lyft is referring to. The nuance of 50 different states with 50 different wiretapping laws, clauses, and articles is why they're broad in this email...

Btw there is no "exception" for security cameras in any state. Its still wiretapping if you're recording audio in a place where there's an expectation of privacy



UberBeemer said:


> There have been federal appellate decisions that support what i have said. Notice that your lawyer mentioned audio. As i have been telling people for a long time now, a dashcam is akin to a security camera. Unless its hidden, you won't have a problem. Even if you hide it, what do you think will happen? Nothing, unless you're posting footage publicly, especially on a monitized site. Used for persinal security and as evidence of fault in an accident is perfectly lawful.
> 
> There was once a store in Chicago called the spy factory. They sold equipment for covert surveillance. ATF and the FBI shut it down. Dashcams, still for sale at major retailers.


Its still wiretapping to record audio in the place where there's an expectation of privacy. Whether the private cabin of a private property vehicle counts is a place of expected privacy is the opinion of a judge in a court. I'm not willing to pay time and money to go through that but maybe another uber driver is


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

MiamiUberGuy5 said:


> Security cameras in the private cabin of a car recording audio could be considered wiretapping


No, not really even close.


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## MiamiUberGuy5 (Feb 20, 2019)

UberBeemer said:


> No, not really even close.


Lol true


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

New2This said:


> Legally in some states you may not be able to use the audio if you didn't have everything done properly.


Only if all you did was covertly record audio.


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## RideshareUSA (Feb 7, 2019)

RideshareUSA said:


> Your response:
> "I always operate in compliance with all applicable laws when using the Lyft driver platform. Future complaints of this nature can be disregarded by Lyft. Thank you "


UPDATE:
Actually a more astute response that I have used with Uber. Long story short, I received one if those stupid, belittling notices that a paxhole complained, or rather lied, about something, so to paraphrase, my response was as follows:
"As an Uber partner, I always drive in accordance with all laws and treat every rider with courtesy, and respect. Unfortunately, I cannot offer any comment to your notice without a specific ride and/or rider first being identified. Should Uber choose to do so, then and only then, can I refresh my memory so as to offer any further accurate insight to your correspondence. 
Yours Truly, 
John Q. Public
.....Of course still have heard nada from STUber!


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

I live in a two party consent state. But i didnt have signs stating any cameras in use. If a rider asks about it i just tell them that i only have front cameras working towards traffic with the mic off.


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## Rosalita (May 13, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> When I was driving, I did not have a cam. But, I had a sign hanging from the mirror that said that I did. If asked, I'd point to the mirror which had a green light in the lower corner and a small hole in the center, and I'd tell them that that was the cam. "And it beams to the cloud, so there's no internal chip to be messed with ..."
> 
> I had a young buck get in once, a little bit ganged up (a wanna be). He looks at the sign and says, "You got a cam in here?" Yep, says I, and point to the mirror. "You gotta have a sign up if you have a cam, right?" I replied that's the law. "And, if I don't want to be recorded, you have to turn it off?" Nope, says I, 'All I have to do is pull over and let you out - do you want out?'
> 
> ...


Nice! Very smooth. I like that. lol


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## ZacAttac (Jun 7, 2019)

trash the email.lyft just wants to pretend to care about the pax


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## part-timer (Oct 5, 2015)

Screw them, no reply needed. As long as you are within the law for your state continue to protect YOURSELF!!!!!!!! If it also happens to protect a rider or two, so be it. Your number one priority is YOU GETTING HOME SAFE EVERY SHIFT!!!!! PERIOD!!!!


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## Clothahump (Mar 31, 2018)

That dashcam is there for *my* protection. It's not going to be turned off, period.

I've only had a couple of folks ask about it, and each time, the conversation was about the technical quality of the camera, etc.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

kc ub'ing! said:


> For all the pearl clutching over dash cams, I have yet to see an example of a positive benefit on this board. No, "Uber deactivated me till I showed them my footage." Or, "I was falsely accused of sexual misconduct and because of my cam they're prosecuting my accuser!" You'd think I would have seen a positive benefit by now...
> 
> 3 years driving, no accidents, 1 fight, 1 false claim of dui, 9000 rides and no dash cam. Now how important is it to have a dash cam?


A few years back I was accused of sexual assault with a battery or something...

Dash camera turned it into a lawsuit paying ME


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> sexual assault with a battery or something...


Yikes where'd you put that battery?!


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## Pandy2 (Jul 18, 2018)

I have one for two years and changed it to a Vantrue Pro and very rarely I get asked. When I do get asked, I say "It is for YOUR protection as well as mine" The recordings are looped every three hours or at the end of the rideshare shift. I had my glasses removed by a pax while driving and sent Uber and the police the recordings. The pax did not know I had a camera and got the back seat view good for the police.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> accused of sexual assault with a battery


Were you or the battery "charged"?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Mista T said:


> Were you or the battery "charged"?


Both of us were "negatively" charged.

When I was getting arrested I was so pissed.

Sued the paxhole into submission thou,

That little stunt cost her parents thousands on top of the undisclosed amount I was paid.


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## LetsGoUber (Aug 7, 2017)

Clothahump said:


> That dashcam is there for *my* protection. It's not going to be turned off, period.


Yeh; I always wonder why the pax would be told it's for their protection too. Like what.. if there's no dash cam, the driver might harm them? The same driver who's providing the cam???‍♀


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## Steve appleby (May 30, 2015)

Oh dude you don’t have to worry. I have 3 cameras in my car. I have disclaimers all over my car, right above the door handles, and I even have a sign in the back seat that says you make a false accusation against me, I’ll sue the $hit outta you. That’s the way you have to be with people, if they don’t like it then GTFO of my car. Plain and simple.


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