# Long trip return fee?



## TedInTampa (Apr 5, 2017)

https://help.uber.com/h/776390a5-b197-412a-98c4-011c85799dc1

Paragraph 3, last line.

Last night, I saw a long trip notification. Grabbed that trip. Thought maybe it would go somewhere nice. Trip took me south to Bradenton, FL, outside my service area, and in an area where, last I checked, paid less than Tampa. Immediately after the trip, I requested a return to service fee.

More to come. Must upload screenshots


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## TedInTampa (Apr 5, 2017)

Continued:
















So, this morning I called driver support. Mis was very polite as she repeatedly tried to misdirection me. She wanted to refer me to ride support. I eventually said "fine, transfer me." Oops, they have no phone and wanted me to deal with an email. Her supervisor is taking phone calls, and his supervisor doesn't exist, and his supervisor's supervisor isn't something she could comprehend, and CFO is something she ignore completely. I kept telling her I would be willing to hold for anyone other than her. Eventually, she hung up on me. Still have not received the promised email.


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## Jc. (Dec 7, 2016)

Elvis has left the building...
You won't get paid. When you get this type of rides, after confirming the drop off, tell pax you can't take them unless you are compensated UPFRONT for your trip back if they don't agree to it just cancel and move on, you are going to lose more money taking the trip than canceling it


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## surlywynch (Jun 22, 2017)

Quoted from: For Riders > A guide to Uber> _"You may also pay an additional charge to your driver for other costs or inconveniences, such as a parking fee to enter a venue or a long return trip after arrival at your final destination."_

Reading between the lines (or words) I suspect Uber really meant to say:

_"You may also pay an additional charge *directly *to your driver, *outside of the Uber platform,* for other costs or inconveniences, such as a parking fee to enter a venue or a long return trip after arrival at your final destination."
_
So my guess is if you didn't negotiate with your pax before you started to trip... SOL


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## G Trip (Jun 20, 2017)

Want to get even more pissed? Look at (and maybe post also) the "What the rider payed" portion of the fare details. For most long trips, we are only getting about 40% of the rider's total fees. 

Basically Uber is effectively charging pax for a return trip, but not disclosing it as such and not sharing it with the drivers.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

You drove from TIA to Bradenton for $44.92 (1.0 hour and 64.5 miles)

Let's assume you stopped for gas and a soda, returned to the Tampa airport and commenced your next ride 3 hours after the start of this ride. I think we can agree you had 3 "working" hours. And your are going to get $44.92 total compensation. (tips aren't necessary or expected)

Your total mileage was 129 miles which AAA (the lowest EXPERT opinion I can find) says cost you 38.6 cents per mile in the cheapest 4 door econobox car or $49.79

You lost $4.87 straight up. (more loss in a better vehicle) You also lost 3 hours of your life without compensation.


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## keb (Jul 8, 2017)

I think you should have blocked our the passengers address (unless it's a hotel) before uploading the images. I would not be comfortable with someone posting MY home address on a public forum such as this.

But I do think you should be paid return fare of an equal amount. Uber just doesn't seem to have the technology in place to solve this problem.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

To compare.

Taxi rates in Tampa (government regulated) are "Rates: $2.50 first 1/8 mile or fraction thereof. $0.30 for each additional 1/8 mile or fraction thereof. $0.30 for for each 60 seconds waiting time or fraction." Note that taxis get per mile or per minute BUT NOT BOTH at the same time.

So the taxi fare would have been $2.50 drop plus (64..3 X 8 X $.30) $154.32 = $156.80 (rounding and no stops for traffic) Add a $20 tip and the taxi gets $175

The taxi driver (who owns his own car) charges $.55 per mile for his car cost and nets (175*.55= $70.95 car costs) $104 for the trip. Or $35/hour!!!

An owner operator at Tampa Yellow Cab pays $350/week lease. (The lease includes the commercial insurance on the vehicle) Three trips like this and a couple of shorties to nearby TIA hotels pays his weekly lease in one day. No more management cut for the rest of the week! (3 Bradentons and 5 shorties make it a long day so let's figure 2 days to pay the lease and 3 or 4 days to get %100 of the fares and tips without Management fees.)

Uber drivers are smart and taxi drivers are dumb. You Betcha!



keb said:


> Uber just doesn't seem to have the technology in place to solve this problem.


Sure they do! Just double the rates! Problem solved!


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

OP why did you ever think uber would pay you a return fee? They don't. Period.

@uberptophet those aaa numbers are high. They are for operating a NEW vehicle. If you buy a 2017 vehicle and run it only for uber the numbers are accurate. Most drivers are not driving it for uber only and are not in a brand new vehicle, so real cost is lower. My minivan runs me $.25/mile by my personal math. I therefore could have driven this guy's customer there and back at the lucrative profit of $4/hour.

This is a good caution though: if long ride request find out where they are going else you could be screwed. This guy basically sold uber 3 hours of his time for nothing.



keb said:


> I think you should have blocked our the passengers address (unless it's a hotel) before uploading the images. I would not be comfortable with someone posting MY home address on a public forum such as this.
> 
> But I do think you should be paid return fare of an equal amount. Uber just doesn't seem to have the technology in place to solve this problem.


they have the tech, but as long as people keep driving for such low rates they have no need at all to cover it. In their position I wouldn't either.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> @uberptophet those aaa numbers are high. They are for operating a NEW vehicle. If you buy a 2017 vehicle and run it only for uber the numbers are accurate. Most drivers are not driving it for uber only and are not in a brand new vehicle, so real cost is lower. My minivan runs me $.25/mile by my personal math. I therefore could have driven this guy's customer there and back at the lucrative profit of $4/hour.


My point is that you, and all Uber drivers should not be using personal math to estimate operating cost.

Experts and data should be what you use. AAA, IRS, Ford, Chrysler, GM, Enterprise, KBB all have at some time published cost per mile estimates based on millions of cars both new and used. Can you find me an "expert" that is as low as your number? Why should anyone substitute your "personal math" for the collective opinion of all the automotive experts?

My personal experience (approximately 150 cars, box vans and minivans) runs the gamut from lemons to "can't kill it with a stick."

My favorite horror story. I bought a 1999 lincoln town car, one owner, 4 years old and 45,000 miles, from an auction. $15,750 out the door. It still had 5 months or 5,000 miles of factory, bumper to bumper warranty. It had a driver window problem so i took it to the dealer. they fixed the problem and sold me an extended bumper to bumper warranty to 100,000 miles or 8 years for $2300. Sweet!

My transmission needed an overhaul at 49,000 miles $3,000 job. My transmission was replaced at 53,000 miles $5,000. The motor threw a rod through the wall of the piston and need a new motor (direct from ford, not rebuilt) for $7,500 at 62,000 miles. All covered by warranty, Thank God! Various other issues covered under warranty to 95,000 miles. Sold it before the warranty expired for about $11,000. If I hadn't had that warranty, my "personal math" would be a lot higher than it is.

Cars break. It is the nature of the beast. But they break faster and worse and in strange ways when used as a taxi. Does your "personal math" include use as a taxi. That drunken bum treats your backseat a lot differently than the 10 year old daughter it was designed for. Does your "personal math" account for the extra stress of being a taxi?


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

UberProphet? said:


> My point is that you, and all Uber drivers should not be using personal math to estimate operating cost.
> 
> Experts and data should be what you use. AAA, IRS, Ford, Chrysler, GM, Enterprise, KBB all have at some time published cost per mile estimates based on millions of cars both new and used. Can you find me an "expert" that is as low as your number? Why should anyone substitute your "personal math" for the collective opinion of all the automotive experts?
> 
> ...


I am perfectly happy going with an expert opinion from aaa or edmunds or whomever else if they can tell me what running costs are for uber on a personal vehicle. If, after having the difference explained you still insist on saying it doesn't matter, I suppose you can keep believing it costs us all .54/mile. Those of us who have run the numbers disagree.

Simply you are using expert opinion over something they have not opined over: running costs of extra miles on a personal vehicle. I know you understand the difference but not sure on why you insist you don't...


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

I gotta go to bed but I'll leave this here. It was claimed in this thread the cheapest 4 door sedan runs $.386/mile to drive. According to "experts", even though there is no expert opinion referenced yet in this thread about operating costs on a personal vehicle while throwing uber on top.

------

Bob buys a 2013 Prius with 80k miles on it as a personal vehicle. He buys it private party for $10,183, exactly what KBB said it should be worth. In three years he plans to sell it with 150k miles. KBB tells him today that a 2010 Prius with 150k miles is worth $4,900.

Over three years his costs on this will be, at $2.50 gas:
$5283 depreciation
$2500 insurance
$200 registration & annual inspection
$3500 gas
= $11,483

70,000 * $.386 = $27,020
27,020 - 11483 = $15,537

Subtract from that $15.5k tires ($1200?, oil changes, one set of brakes). If anybody here thinks the average prius running from 80k->150k miles runs $13k in repairs, please raise your hand lol

So, uberprophet, now show me the expert opinion that tells me the cost of running a 2013 prius for 3 years and putting 70k on it? I promise you it's not going to say it costs 38.6 cents/mile, and if you don't understand the math in my post, I'll again advise you to go back to your $.54 mile cost and I'll stick to mine. Your problem is you think you're using expert opinion, but you're not, because the experts are not (with the data you are referring to) actually saying what it costs to run uber on a personal vehicle.

Oh, and note this is all personal. Uber miles would be cheaper because the vehicle is a primary vehicle first; it has to have insurance/registration costs anyway.


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## TedInTampa (Apr 5, 2017)

The final say on the matter was that my driving area is Florida. I should have used (and did use) the fares towards a destination. No fares on the 47 mile trek home. There was no queue wait time, and no depreciation. This is now an Xchange leasing vehicle at $109/week. I'm spinning out and looking on this deal, but I was 2 weeks looking for a different option.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> I gotta go to bed but I'll leave this here. It was claimed in this thread the cheapest 4 door sedan runs $.386/mile to drive. According to "experts", even though there is no expert opinion referenced yet in this thread about operating costs on a personal vehicle while throwing uber on top.
> 
> ------
> 
> ...


Ok, Ok. You have convinced me. I will now substitute all expert opinion for that of a random Uber driver I know from the internet.

If you could help me with these other issues.......

I have this strange rash in my groin area?

What do these papers mean that have been served on me by a court officer?

How do I do my taxes correctly?

What will be the weather tomorrow and next week?

Thanking you in advance.....


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## Alison Chains (Aug 18, 2017)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> He buys it private party for $10,183, exactly what KBB said it should be worth.


Bob's not very bright.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

UberProphet? said:


> Ok, Ok. You have convinced me. I will now substitute all expert opinion for that of a random Uber driver I know from the internet.
> 
> If you could help me with these other issues.......
> 
> ...


This is going to be hard for you to read, but...I actually found AAA's numbers and, "shocking as it may be", they agree with me (not you). I got tired of you pretending these experts were saying things they weren't, so here we go:

http://exchange.aaa.com/wp-content/...Your-Driving-Costs-Brochure-2017-FNL-CX-1.pdf

Page 6.
15,000 miles/year on a small sedan runs $.42/mile or $6,300
20,000 miles/year on a small sedan runs $.37/mile or $7400

Look, just like my "personal math" said, as you drive more the per mile costs goes down. Who would have known? I would have thought the guy who had driven 150 cars would have known.

So, what did that last 5,000 miles cost? $1100. Guess what that is per mile? $.22.

So if you drive a personal vehicle for $15,000 you're paying $.42/mile. If you decide to tag another 5,000 uber miles on top bonus, you can run those at $.22/mile.

It also figured that on a brand new minivan with 15k personal and then run 5k uber miles the uber 5k are at $.32. My personal math had come up with $.25. However, the discrepancy there is that my van is older already, so depreciation is substantially reduced, and I also have a particularly reliable brand, so I'm very content now that the $.07 difference is fair.

Thanks, UberProphet, for making me actually go and find the experts agree with my personal math. I told you this stuff wasn't that hard  But now I can rest easy indeed that my calcs are spot-on.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> This is going to be hard for you to read, but...I actually found AAA's numbers and, "shocking as it may be", they agree with me (not you). I got tired of you pretending these experts were saying things they weren't, so here we go:
> 
> http://exchange.aaa.com/wp-content/...Your-Driving-Costs-Brochure-2017-FNL-CX-1.pdf
> 
> ...


Once again you twist what was said to suit your purposes.

AAA said each mile cost $.37 at 20,000 miles per year.

Nowhere did they say extra miles will only cost $.22 per mile. And certainly they did not say an extra 25,000 or 50,000 miles would only cost $.22 per mile. Why do you insist on leaving out costs from your Uber miles? Because if you actually account for your costs you aren't making any money at all.

Ps If you do it my way, the worst that will happen is you make extra profit. If you do it shinyandchrome's way, you might go bankrupt!


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

UberProphet? said:


> Once again you twist what was said to suit your purposes.
> 
> AAA said each mile cost $.37 at 20,000 miles per year.
> 
> ...


I'm not surprised that it went over your head. But, I am disappointed.

For me this is so easy to grasp. It's also easy to grasp for an awful lot of people here, yet you insist on struggling with it. I honestly can't make it any simpler for you. I just don't think you're capable of understanding what you're talking about. Ultimately, that's what it comes down to.

I'll try again, for what it's worth.

If I buy a car today for $16k. I put 100 miles on it. I then don't drive it again for another 20 years despite having it garaged, licensed, insured this entire time.

After 20 years I go to sell it. How much have I spent on this car? I only drove it 100 miles. Did I spent $38.60 on this car?

Come on, you must get that, right? Do you understand what's happening here?


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

TedInTampa said:


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This might have already been answered, but I havent read every post here.

*You may also pay an additional charge to your driver for other costs or inconveniences, such as a parking fee to enter a venue or a long return trip after arrival at your final destination. 
*
These things that Uber is talking about is something that you have to negotiate with your rider prior to starting the trip, and is between driver and rider only, not Uber.
They dont agree to the return trip fee, you tell them to find another sucker.


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## Wickedblue (Sep 21, 2017)

TedInTampa said:


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## Wickedblue (Sep 21, 2017)

At least u weren't repremanded and u had the supposed ability to ACTUALLY speak to someone 
The same day I was injured by a suitcase falling in my foot I received a uber customer service reprimand I did ask the customer for a "return fee" and he complained! The message from Uber told me that Uber prohibits and "cash transactions" and uber was cashless! Like really?? It took them almost 36 hours to contact regarding an injury but a reprimand was instantaneous-- I WENT OFF!! Took me three days to find out how to make a personal injury claim w their "driver protection" plan -- their Customer Service is LESS THAN DESIRED AND NOT 1 person knows shit!!


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

TedInTampa said:


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Bradenton is not outside your service area. If you're able to drive in Tampa, you're able to drive in Bradenton. Plus, rates are higher there.


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## Yulli Yung (Jul 4, 2017)

TedInTampa said:


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 I am trying to determine why you think you are we entitled to a return fee. Never have I heard of such a thing, but it would certainly be great if Uber paid such a fee. At some point one must decide one efforts are futile and move on&#8230; Dot


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Yulli Yung said:


> I am trying to determine why you think you are we entitled to a return fee. Never have I heard of such a thing, but it would certainly be great if Uber paid such a fee. At some point one must decide one efforts are futile and move on&#8230; Dot


In the taxi business, "back miles" were paid on all trips leaving the service area. People feel that since cab drivers get it, ride share drivers should be entitled as well.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> In the taxi business, "back miles" were paid on all trips leaving the service area. People feel that since cab drivers get it, ride share drivers should be entitled as well.


Except he didn't leave the service area, he can work in Bradenton and in all the towns, including St Pete, on the way back to the airport. Guy was working at the airport - was he waiting hours in the queue for short trips? Plus he got and accepted the "long trip" notification - if you didn't want to take what he considers an epic journey why did he accept it?

Rides from Tampa International to Bradenton are very common, and not really that far, 45 to 60 miles generally. This guy somehow thinks that he, unlike every other driver at the airport that goes to Bradenton, deserves round trip pay. LOL!


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