# Period 1- Park the car.



## AcesFull (Feb 22, 2016)

Period 1. Park the car in a safe corner of a parking lot. Engine off. Wait for ping. Get ping and accept. Now James River takes over.

Could a meteor hit my car? Yes. Could a drunk barrel into my parked car? Yes.

With the exception of drunks, dumb butts, and meteors from space nailing my safely parked car, why do I need rideshare insurance?


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

AcesFull said:


> Period 1. Park the car in a safe corner of a parking lot. Engine off. Wait for ping. Get ping and accept. Now James River takes over.
> 
> Could a meteor hit my car? Yes. Could a drunk barrel into my parked car? Yes.
> 
> With the exception of drunks, dumb butts, and meteors from space nailing my safely parked car, why do I need rideshare insurance?


So that JR matches the physical damage coverage from your personal insurance policy in all periods, and you don't violate the terms of that policy resulting in cancellation. And how about the drive from the last pax drop off to that parking lot, when you have no coverage from either JR or your own insurance? RSI or an endorsement would take care of you.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Older Chauffeur said:


> And how about the drive from the last pax drop off to that parking lot, when you have no coverage from either JR or your own insurance? RSI or an endorsement would take care of you.


App off as soon as the pax leaves, personal coverage. This minimizes risk, but you lose out on dead mile tax deduction.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

njn said:


> App off as soon as the pax leaves, personal coverage. This minimizes risk, but you lose out on dead mile tax deduction.


Even with the app off you may be in violation of the terms of your personal auto policy. If you were to have an accident and they determined that you were driving for a TNC but were in between rides, your insurer could deny your claim. But you can still claim the dead miles for business, as you would be relocating to an area to await pings.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Even with the app off you may be in violation of the terms of your personal auto policy.


Very true. It's best to ask your insurance company what and what is not covered.


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## JanuaryStone (Oct 29, 2016)

AcesFull said:


> Period 1. Park the car in a safe corner of a parking lot. Engine off. Wait for ping. Get ping and accept. Now James River takes over.
> 
> Could a meteor hit my car? Yes. Could a drunk barrel into my parked car? Yes.
> 
> With the exception of drunks, dumb butts, and meteors from space nailing my safely parked car, why do I need rideshare insurance?


The answer yo your question is simple: If you ever get into an accident at any time ever and you never informed your insurer that you are a Ride Share Driver, which you obviously haven't, they could and likely would deny you coverage and cancel your policy. That is to say, you lied to them about ever driving your car for "Livery purposes". You likely implied when you purchased your policy that you wouldn't be doing that ever. The first thing they will do if you ever file a claim is vet your DL number and your VIN to see if you and/or your car are registered on any Ride Share Driver lists. You are, it is, and they WILL find out. You will then be in violation of your policy, regardless of when you were logged in or out of the APP. Your policy likely forbids Ride Share driving period. Most policies do. You will then have no leg to stand on and will be solely responsible to fix or replace your damaged vehicle. Also just so you are aware, UBER and LYFT will only cover damage to your car during Period 2 and 3 IF YOU HAVE OFFICIALLY INFORMED YOUR INSURER THAT YOU ARE A RIDE SHARE DRIVER. Go on Uber's insurance pages and read the fine print. I did. It says precisely that. If you aren't above board with your insurer, Uber will also deny damage claims. There are more than a few sob stories posted on here from people who have gone through exactly what I just described. Look in the stories section with ACCIDENT in the titles.


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## JanuaryStone (Oct 29, 2016)

njn said:


> App off as soon as the pax leaves, personal coverage. This minimizes risk, but you lose out on dead mile tax deduction.


App On or Off doesn't minimize risk at all. The moment your insurance company finds out you are a Ride Share Driver, and they WILL, you will be denied coverage and likely canceled as well. The moment anyone makes a claim for damage to a car, the FIRST thing they do is run the DL and the VIN to see if that car or driver is a registered Ride Share participant. This has become SOP for insurers looking to weed out Ride share drivers trying to get over on them by not purchasing Ride Share Insurance. Most of them don't even offer it in many states.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

njn said:


> App off as soon as the pax leaves, personal coverage. This minimizes risk, but you lose out on dead mile tax deduction.


You can't make money if you're not available for a trip. It's like a cab driver who keeps the meter on (or logging off the dispatch computer) to avoid being sent an order. The only difference is one has a valid insurance policy, while the Uber driver has iffy coverage at best.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

phillipzx3 said:


> You can't make money if you're not available for a trip. It's like a cab driver who keeps the meter on (or logging off the dispatch computer) to avoid being sent an order. The only difference is one has a valid insurance policy, while the Uber driver has iffy coverage at best.


The company I work for has a function to be online/logged in and not accepting fares. With the assumption being that we are independent contractors and we are allowed to have regular customers call us personally.. they even give us fill in the name/number business cards to hand out. I also have Craigslist adds up for airport transport in a county that the company doesn't dispatch to but has no requirements beyond insurance requirements. There are also a ton of cab stands in Orlando... like a ludicrous number.

Something that people don't realize is that cabs have to go offline for things like bathroom breaks, lunch breaks... driving the cab back to the shop... you really have to have an offline mode in the taxis.

But my question is... How do you ovoid liability when your trip cancels on your way to pick them up?


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## freediverdude (Oct 14, 2016)

JanuaryStone said:


> App On or Off doesn't minimize risk at all. The moment your insurance company finds out you are a Ride Share Driver, and they WILL, you will be denied coverage and likely canceled as well. The moment anyone makes a claim for damage to a car, the FIRST thing they do is run the DL and the VIN to see if that car or driver is a registered Ride Share participant. This has become SOP for insurers looking to weed out Ride share drivers trying to get over on them by not purchasing Ride Share Insurance. Most of them don't even offer it in many states.


Well that's the situation here in Florida, I tried to tell my insurance company that the Uber vehicle I would be leasing is for Uber and go above board, and they said absolutely not, and apparently no real insurers do that in Florida unless you pay for commercial insurance, which would be way too much for an Uber driver. So what are we supposed to do.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

freediverdude said:


> Well that's the situation here in Florida, I tried to tell my insurance company that the Uber vehicle I would be leasing is for Uber and go above board, and they said absolutely not, and apparently no real insurers do that in Florida unless you pay for commercial insurance, which would be way too much for an Uber driver. So what are we supposed to do.


https://www.farmers.com/florida-rideshare-insurance/
There are not many choices but there are one or 2.

Well your supposed to NOT violate rules.. but uber doesn't comply with anyones rules, they put their drivers at risk and then claim they are independent contractors when they get caught.


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## freediverdude (Oct 14, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> There are not many choices but there are one or 2.
> 
> Well your supposed to NOT violate rules.. but uber doesn't comply with anyones rules, they put their drivers at risk and then claim they are independent contractors when they get caught.


Thank you- I'll get a quote from them and see if it's doable. How much is your commercial insurance?


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

freediverdude said:


> Thank you- I'll get a quote from them and see if it's doable. How much is your commercial insurance?


the last quote i got for a 1/car 1 driver policy was 8,200 for the year, right now i just lease a company taxi so it's a package deal.


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## SuperUberNoober (Nov 15, 2016)

freediverdude said:


> Thank you- I'll get a quote from them and see if it's doable. How much is your commercial insurance?


I'm also in Florida and the best deal I've found so far on rideshare insurance is through a local insurance agency that gave me a quote from Foremost - $260 a month which replaces my personal auto insurance with this personal/rideshare insurance. So it's basically double what I would pay for personal auto insurance.


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## bigdaddy (Oct 27, 2015)

JanuaryStone said:


> The first thing they will do if you ever file a claim is vet your DL number and your VIN to see if you and/or your car are registered on any Ride Share Driver lists. You are, it is, and they WILL find out.


What exactly are these "Ride Share Driver lists?" As far as I am aware (at least in the market I drive in), there are no such lists. We don't register with any government authority, there are no business licenses required, and inspection documents are on-demand-only and needn't be filed with the city. Are Uber and Lyft doling out lists of drivers to insurance companies on request???


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## JanuaryStone (Oct 29, 2016)

bigdaddy said:


> What exactly are these "Ride Share Driver lists?" As far as I am aware (at least in the market I drive in), there are no such lists. We don't register with any government authority, there are no business licenses required, and inspection documents are on-demand-only and needn't be filed with the city. Are Uber and Lyft doling out lists of drivers to insurance companies on request???


It's simple:
When you sign up to drive with a TSN like Uber or Lyft, you have to provide those companies information: Your DL number, your vehicle VIN number and your SSN. IF you happen to have not informed your insurer that you are a Ride Share Driver and you attempt to make a claim on your vehicle for damage, one of the FIRST questions they ask nowadays is "Are you a Ride Share Driver?". You are free to lie and say NO. HOWEVER, they will contact Lyft and Uber to see if your DL and/or VIN are registered on their systems as a Ride Share operative and then they can and likely will deny you coverage. You told Uber and Lyft it was okay for them to share this information with insurers asking that question. Read the fine print in the Privacy portion of the pages of legalese on their website. Most people don't read the fine print and then make assumptions that aren't true. If you are driving for Uber or Lyft and you haven't informed your insurance company you are taking a huge risk plain and simple. Not an ILLEGAL risk, but a FINANCIAL one.


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## yojimboguy (Mar 2, 2016)

There's LOTS of drunks and "dumb butts", many of them sitting behind the wheels of cars. I have been hit sitting at a dead stop in a parking lot, though that was long before I drove for Uber.


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## JTR (Nov 13, 2015)

Correct sir!


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## bigdaddy (Oct 27, 2015)

JanuaryStone said:


> It's simple:
> When you sign up to drive with a TSN like Uber or Lyft, you have to provide those companies information: Your DL number, your vehicle VIN number and your SSN. IF you happen to have not informed your insurer that you are a Ride Share Driver and you attempt to make a claim on your vehicle for damage, one of the FIRST questions they ask nowadays is "Are you a Ride Share Driver?". You are free to lie and say NO. HOWEVER, they will contact Lyft and Uber to see if your DL and/or VIN are registered on their systems as a Ride Share operative and then they can and likely will deny you coverage. You told Uber and Lyft it was okay for them to share this information with insurers asking that question. Read the fine print in the Privacy portion of the pages of legalese on their website. Most people don't read the fine print and then make assumptions that aren't true. If you are driving for Uber or Lyft and you haven't informed your insurance company you are taking a huge risk plain and simple. Not an ILLEGAL risk, but a FINANCIAL one.


I think you may be overstating things. Uber and Lyft might give information to MY insurance company upon request indicating that I'm a driver. However, there are thousands of insurance claims made every day across the country, and I don't believe that every insurer is calling up Uber and Lyft as a part of every claim and asking for information about their drivers. Not only would this be unworkable, it would be the equivalent of Uber and Lyft maintaining public lists of all TNC drivers. Given the difficulty that even governments have had getting such lists (short of actual legislation mandating it), I don't think this is likely. I may be wrong, but I just don't think it's feasible.

Of course, you're correct that we all must carefully weigh the risks we take, the insurance implications, the contractual obligations, etc. But there's a lot of doom and gloom "scary" information out there about insurance coverage in the TNC area, and a lot of it is just fantasy.


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