# Upfront Cash Tip on Long Rides?



## DarkBerry (Dec 10, 2019)

I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

Some people might roast me for saying this, but this is how I look at it:

1. Deny long rides, chances of getting tipped to help with deadheading back to philly are slim.

OR

2. Accept the long ride, ask for X amount of $$$ upfront and hope the pax agrees.

Here's the story, I had a long ride from downtown Pittsburgh Pa to Erie. The trip was about 2 hrs JUST ONE WAY. I got paid $100 while pax paid $280+. I asked for a tip to pay for gas going back home.

Big mistake....

She became furious. "I payed lyft out the ass to come here, and you expect me to compensate you for going home? Screw off". Slammed my car door and left. She reported me and Lyft suspended me for a day to "investigate".

I had a request to go from downtown Pittsburgh to State College. I asked the pax, I need $30 to pay for gas going back. $30 is REALLY generous because my car takes $45 to fill from empty. I asked in a generous and polite tone.

Big mistake again....

These Frat boys said "I'm already paying uber $250+, why would I give you any extra??? Uber and Lyft drivers are so greedy." I cancelled and drove off.

This is why i stopped asking for tips, stopped expecting tips, and stopped doing long rides all together. It's not worth it for me. Some people may have different experiences, but i dont want to deal with the bullshit of long rides.

I get paid $0.65 a mile, $0.21 a minute. The further i drive mileage wise, the less and less I make. Its not worth it to me.

But to answer your question, ask politely for a cash tip. How much? Whatever it takes to fill your tank from empty. $45 from empty? Ask $40-$50 UPFRONT BEFORE YOU DRIVE THEM. Politely of course...

Lyft/Uber bans drivers from asking for any cash payment from riders. Deactivation may happen if you get reported


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


Imagine just imagine, a pax agreeing to give cash and reports driver for extortion.

What happens then?
I'll give you 10 guesses and the 1st 9 don't count.

Better question: Yep, I'm going there...
WHAT kind of idiot drives 1 1/2 hour, has to deadhead back and thinks it's practical?


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Some people might roast me for saying this, but this is how I look at it:
> 
> 1. Deny long rides, chances of getting tipped to help with deadheading back to philly are slim.
> 
> ...


You negotiate the total price and let them cancel the trip, and make it a private ride with proper insurance. If they want to be in Uber platform, then don't ask for a return fee.
Tell them upfront and be honest.


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## disp350 (Jul 16, 2016)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


Every time I take someone to EWR, I DF my way back south, usually to the Trenton area. I hit 3 consecutive DF's stacked once before the app turned it off and counted it as one. No opinion on the up front fee. I have read many drivers that say they do it though. Good luck.


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

mbd said:


> You negotiate the total price and let them cancel the trip, and make it a private ride with proper insurance. If they want to be in Uber platform, then don't ask for a return fee&#128512;


Make it a private ride?

L O L

Hahahahahahahahahahahah

L O L again.

I dont know these cucks, when shit hits the fan what am I going to tell the police? I do everything on the app, it's too risky doing rides privately, even with Insurance.


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## DarkBerry (Dec 10, 2019)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Some people might roast me for saying this, but this is how I look at it:
> 
> 1. Deny long rides, chances of getting tipped to help with deadheading back to philly are slim.
> 
> ...


This is my fear exactly. The customer going off on me for asking for an upfront cash tip. The customer does actually have a point, they're paying $250 and feel that should include everything. This is why many DON'T tip because they feel they're already paying a lot especially for a really long ride. If U/L weren't so greedy and paid us a fair percentage of the fare, it wouldn't be an issue. If its a long trip, it should go up to $1 per mile plus 25 cents per min for time. U/L puts us in a no win situations. It sucks. May have to just start declining these long rides altogether...


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Make it a private ride?
> 
> L O L
> 
> ...


I don't trust anybody myself &#128512;0 private rides &#128513;


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

DarkBerry said:


> This is my fear exactly. The customer going off on me for asking for an upfront cash tip. The customer does actually have a point, they're paying $250 and feel that should include everything. This is why many DON'T tip because they feel they're already paying a lot especially for a really long ride. If U/L weren't so greedy and paid us a fair percentage of the fare, it wouldn't be an issue. If its a long trip, it should go up to $1 per mile plus 25 cents per min for time. U/L puts us in a no win situations. It sucks. May have to just start declining these long rides altogether...


I completely agree. We as drivers are being paid WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY LESS than what traditional taxis are being paid. We are being paid cab rates from the 70s-80s.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm being paid .65 cents a mile......BEFORE TAXES!!!!! I cant make this gig work anymore. I used to love long rides, but after some number crunching, I'm losing money /barely breaking even.

I'm not mad at the pax, they are not the ones making the prices. They also are not the ones in charge of deciding how much we get paid per mile. I'm just pissed at the current situation that rideshare has become.

As drivers, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place already. Dealing with pax, traffic, and everything else that comes with doing this. These Uber and Lyft exec's think I'm going to destroy my car by doing these long unprofitable rides? Think again....


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## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

You say, "I don't know. That's a long trip and I have to come back empty." 

If they offer a 50% or more tip, say, "Sure!"

If they offer less, say, "I don't think so. Good luck!"

Make sure to collect the tip at the beginning of the ride.


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## DarkBerry (Dec 10, 2019)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Make it a private ride?
> 
> L O L
> 
> ...


Private Ride= 100% guaranteed permanent deactivation

I'm unclear what U/L policy is on requesting upfront cash tips but I'm 100% sure that having them cancel the ride and doing a private ride is against U/L terms & conditions. All the rider would have to do is report you and you're done.










In this case the passenger is only paying $105.11 for a regular ride and I would be getting about $85 of it, so Lyft actually isn't getting much. So in this situation, I don't think I would have a problem requesting an additional $30 from the pax. If they were paying something like $200, it would be different but I just realized Lyft's cut on this ride is really nothing. The customer is getting a really cheap ride considering and they should be willing/able to cough up another $30.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Deny long rides, chances of getting tipped to help with deadheading back to philly are slim.


This is the best way to do it. If it is an excessively long trip, I simply tell the customer that I am not doing it. Usually, they ask why. I tell them that I am not doing it for the garbage rates that Uber/Lyft pays.

I have had one or two ask for what rate would I do it. I tell them that I will start the trip and we will go to my home. They can pay the Uber rate to that destination. I will then end the trip, transfer them and their belongings, if any, to my cab. We will make the trip in my cab and they can pay cab rates.

Both of them replied something similar to: "If I wanted to pay that, I would take a cab." ......"

"............precisely, Sir, and if I were willing to do it for Uber/Lyft garbage rates, we would not be having this conversation."

OR



DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> 2. Accept the long ride, ask for X amount of $$$ upfront and hope the pax agrees .Big mistake....
> 
> I got paid $100 while pax paid $280+. I asked for a tip to pay for gas going back home. She became furious. "I payed lyft out the ass to come here, and you expect me to compensate you for going home? Screw off". She reported me and Lyft suspended me for a day to "investigate".


"If you think that I am making this trip for the garbage that Gr*yft* pays, you can 'screw off' as well, Mademoiselle.



DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> I need $30 to pay for gas going back. $30 is REALLY generous because my car takes $45 to fill from empty. I asked in a polite tone.
> These Frat boys said "I'm already paying uber $250+, why would I give you any extra??? Uber and Lyft drivers are so greedy." I cancelled and drove off.


That was the way to handle it.



DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> This is why i stopped asking for tips, stopped expecting tips, and stopped doing long rides all together.


This is it. As you cited in both your examples, the customer is somewhat less than delighted at having to pay out what he considers a large amount of money as it is. He decidedly _ain't_ about to pay any more.



DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> i dont want to deal with the bullshit of long rides.


*^^^^^^^^*this, THIS, *THIS* and *THIS** ^^^^^^^^*



DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> I get paid $0.65 a mile, $0.21 a minute. The further i drive mileage wise, the less and less I make. Its not worth it to me.


You get reamed on the long trips, especially when there is a surge. Yes, there are times when F*ub*a*r* *might* give you a little extra, but, it is under no obligation to do so per the Terms of Service that it changes every week.



DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> /Uber bans drivers from asking for any cash payment from riders. Deactivation may happen if you get reported


This is why you just decline to do it. Do not bother asking for the cash. Just tell them to summon an ant. They have ants for a reason.



IR12 said:


> Imagine just imagine, a pax agreeing to give cash and reports driver for extortion.


There are times when they will not even flinch. They just ask you how much you want. You tell them. They fork over the cash. You haul them. You head home with a smile on your face. You get home, check your e-Mail. There is one from Gr*yft*:

"Hi_______________!

This is Justin from the Lyft Safety and Trust Team reaching out to you..................................

Not only is your account suspended, but, they will deduct what the customer gave you from any funds owing. If there is still a balance, Lyft might re-instate you, but, as soon as the balance is even, it will de-activate you.


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

mbd said:


> You negotiate the total price and let them cancel the trip, and make it a private ride with proper insurance. If they want to be in Uber platform, then don't ask for a return fee.
> Tell them upfront and be honest.


Okay, say the customer decides to cancel and report driver for "attempted" extortion?

What are the chances a driver gets deactivated percentage-wise?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

DarkBerry said:


> I'm unclear what U/L policy is on requesting upfront cash tips


^^^^^^^^^^^^^\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/


DarkBerry said:


> All the rider would have to do is report you and you're done.


There used to be checkboxes on the customer complaint form for "driver demanded cash" and "driver demanded a tip". I do not know if they are still there, but, if the customer complained to F*ub*a*r* or Gr*yft* that you demanded anything over what the customer paid to Uber/Lyft, you can bet that at least Uber/Lyft will deduct it from what they owe you with a warning not to do it, again. At worst, Uber/Lyft relegates you to Deactivation Station.



DarkBerry said:


> Private Ride= 100% guaranteed permanent deactivation


........not to mention what could happen if you are involved in a collision, regardless of fault.



IR12 said:


> say the customer decides to cancel and report driver for "attempted" extortion? What are the chances a driver gets deactivated percentage-wise?


Depending on your record, odds are that Uber/Lyft will suspend you for seventy-two hours while it "investigates", then warn you not to do it, again. If you have any other strikes on your account, odds are that Uber/Lyft will de-activate you.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

If I was the rider and a driver ask this I'd have the exact same reaction as the riders described by @DoYouEvenLyft? Why on Earth would you expect anything differently?

Personally I love long rides, I set the DF on both apps and always get rides back to my home area. The miles back are deductible so they hold value and even with the toll I would think that would still be a profitable ride. Not sure what the rates in Phillly are but in Baltimore at .69/mile and .22 a minute that comes to $80 less the $10 toll which is $70 for 3 hours or $23/hour for easy work. That is a rate most drivers don't accomplish and if they do that would requite multiple pickups to get to $70 where you only had to make one pickup. As I said easy work. And again the $23/hour is assuming not a single ride back which is unlikely.

Someone mentioned taxes, if you are paying much in taxes you are doing it wrong. If it takes $45 in gas to drive 170 miles you have the wrong vehicle. 170 miles in a Civic or other car getting 38 MPG should cost $11 in gas.


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## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


you'll probably get ****ed in some way shape or FORM, and not a foxy ****ing, guaranteed.


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## DarkBerry (Dec 10, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> If I was the rider and a driver ask this I'd have the exact same reaction as the riders described by @DoYouEvenLyft? Why on Earth would you expect anything differently?


This is the reason why I haven't done it thus far. It really doesn't seem right nor feel right to me to ask for a cash tip in advance. Something seems a bit shady about it and I don't want pax to think I'm a shady driver or trying to take advantage of them in any way.


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> This is why you just decline to do it. Do not bother asking for the cash. Just tell them to summon an ant. They have ants for a reason.


This. Simple. Clean. And the least risk.


Another Uber Driver said:


> Depending on your record, odds are that Uber/Lyft will suspend you for seventy-two hours while it "investigates", then warn you not to do it, again. If you have any other strikes on your account, odds are that Uber/Lyft will de-activate you.


For some who are bold enough to squeeze a few extra bucks, yet wouldn't have an issue with being deactivated, I get it.

For the right rates, of course I would go out of my way to do long trips. But reality is the passenger was quoted a certain price, and there are ants out there who will do those runs. I'm just not one of them.

I'm not into sticking my neck out for a run that's not going to make or break me. I am all for hustling, but inviting deactivation, is counterproductive. I rather quit on my own terms, and not burn bridges.


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## DarkBerry (Dec 10, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> There used to be checkboxes on the customer complaint form for "driver demanded cash" and "driver demanded a tip". I do not know if they are still there, but, if the customer complained to F*ub*a*r* or Gr*yft* that you demanded anything over what the customer paid to Uber/Lyft, you can bet that at least Uber/Lyft will deduct it from what they owe you with a warning not to do it, again. At worst, Uber/Lyft relegates you to Deactivation Station.


This is another good reason not to do it! Wow. I'll probably just stick to my instincts. The last time I didn't get tipped it was from a couple traveling to EWR at 4am. I had a feeling they weren't gonna tip. Plus they really should have ordered an XL with all the equipment, luggage, etc. they had. They were being cheap ordering a regular X and I thought to myself they weren't gonna tip and they didn't. Professionals traveling for work tend to tip because they can expense it. I guess moral of the story.... Trust your gut.



Greenfox said:


> you'll probably get @@@@ed in some way shape or FORM, and not a foxy @@@@ing, guaranteed.


Oh No, only want that from my hubby.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

*Don't do it! *

If they weren't planning on tipping you at the end, requesting $ before the ride won't make a difference. But now you put yourself in a position to get reported.

Some (probably most) will think you are trying to rip them off, it's a quick way to get them upset and yourself deactivated.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

DarkBerry said:


> ... Trust your gut.


You will learn to do this if you are going to keep doing this job. The one time that I ignored my gut feelings, it could have cost me my life. I resolved that NEVER again would I do that.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> If I was the rider and a driver ask this I'd have the exact same reaction as the riders described by @DoYouEvenLyft? Why on Earth would you expect anything differently?
> 
> Personally I love long rides, I set the DF on both apps and always get rides back to my home area. The miles back are deductible so they hold value and even with the toll I would think that would still be a profitable ride. Not sure what the rates in Phillly are but in Baltimore at .69/mile and .22 a minute that comes to $80 less the $10 toll which is $70 for 3 hours or $23/hour for easy work. That is a rate most drivers don't accomplish and if they do that would requite multiple pickups to get to $70 where you only had to make one pickup. As I said easy work. And again the $23/hour is assuming not a single ride back which is unlikely.
> 
> Someone mentioned taxes, if you are paying much in taxes you are doing it wrong. If it takes $45 in gas to drive 170 miles you have the wrong vehicle. 170 miles in a Civic or other car getting 38 MPG should cost $11 in gas.


That's amazing, so you would make $23 an hour for that "easy work"? So your car never needs gas, tires, oil change, ... and never wears out! That's amazing!!!! For most of us there is a cost per mile to drive a vehicle, something in the 20 30 cents a mile range which means you might be clearing $35 for this trip. total loser. As far as DF, depends on where you are, sometimes it works, sometimes it's worse than driving home empty.


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> If I was the rider and a driver ask this I'd have the exact same reaction as the riders described by @DoYouEvenLyft? Why on Earth would you expect anything differently?
> 
> Personally I love long rides, I set the DF on both apps and always get rides back to my home area. The miles back are deductible so they hold value and even with the toll I would think that would still be a profitable ride. Not sure what the rates in Phillly are but in Baltimore at .69/mile and .22 a minute that comes to $80 less the $10 toll which is $70 for 3 hours or $23/hour for easy work. That is a rate most drivers don't accomplish and if they do that would requite multiple pickups to get to $70 where you only had to make one pickup. As I said easy work. And again the $23/hour is assuming not a single ride back which is unlikely.
> 
> Someone mentioned taxes, if you are paying much in taxes you are doing it wrong. If it takes $45 in gas to drive 170 miles you have the wrong vehicle. 170 miles in a Civic or other car getting 38 MPG should cost $11 in gas.


1. I'm glad you love long rides, they can be beneficial in some markets or they can be time/money waster in others. $70 in three hours isnt bad, but I want to achieve that while keeping my deadheading TO AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUM!!!!!!!

You say you can get a DF ride back to your hometown.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

I wish I can say the same for my market. I have a better chance of seeing Donald Trump have an **** with a black and a Hispanic girl THAN me getting a ride back home from let's say Erie or state college(places that are 2 hours away from pittsburgh).

I have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting a DF ride back home from anywhere outside of the city. Hahahaahhaahhahahahahahahahaha&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;

Also, what is the chance of @DarkBerry getting a DF ride back from New Jersey? He cant uber outside of PA so A DF ON UBER IS DEFINITELY NOT AN OPTION!!! As Pa drivers, we can Lyft in NJ but again, what are the odds of someone in New Jersey needing a ride to philly?? Exactly...

2. You misread my post. It takes $45 to fill my tank up from empty. That will give my passat a 550 mile range if I'm easy on the gas pedal. I dont care what car I drive, if I'm traveling out of my market then you WILL PAY ME EXTRA FOR A FULL TANK OF GAS. I DONT CARE. Dont like it? Summon another ant who will likely drive you.


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## DarkBerry (Dec 10, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> *Don't do it! *
> 
> If they weren't planning on tipping you at the end, requesting $ before the ride won't make a difference. But now you put yourself in a position to get reported.
> 
> Some (probably most) will think you are trying to rip them off, it's a quick way to get them upset and yourself deactivated.


Wise advice.


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

DarkBerry said:


> This is the reason why I haven't done it thus far. It really doesn't seem right nor feel right to me to ask for a cash tip in advance. Something seems a bit shady about it and I don't want pax to think I'm a shady driver or trying to take advantage of them in any way.


My fellow Pennsylvanian, we are businessmen. We must make the most money out of every mile we drive. You are providing your own car, THAT YOU HAVE TO UPKEEP AS WELL AS INSURE!!!!

Is it crude/pushy to ask for money upfront to do a long ride, some may say yes.....BUT WHAT CHOICE DO WE HAVE????????

Me, you, and countless other drivers are getting paid pennies and nickels on the dollar. We are providing our own cars while being paid a fraction of what cabbies can make. These pax expect me to bend over that easily?????

No I'm not..... my profit margins ARE VERY THIN. I cant deadhead left and right if I want to keep my profit margins positive. This is exactly why I dont do long distance pick ups either. I HAVE to keep my deadhead miles low.

I'm not angry at the pax because again they dont make the prices, but I'm not a dumbass either. I will not be screwed by Uber/Lyft by doing these long unprofitable rides.


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## DarkBerry (Dec 10, 2019)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> You say you can get a DF ride back to your hometown.
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA &#128514;&#128514;&#128514;&#128514;
> 
> ...


After I dropped pax off at EWR I sat for 4 hrs at the airport que trying to get Long DF ride back home. No luck! I don't even think it allowed me to use DF at the airport. Then traveling down 95 the chance of getting a long ride request while going 70mph... Nope!


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> These Frat boys said "I'm already paying uber $250+, why would I give you any extra??? Uber and Lyft drivers are so greedy." I cancelled and drove off.


I would ask him, How about cancel this trip, you pay me $200 in cash and I would take you there gladly?


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

DarkBerry said:


> After I dropped pax off at EWR I sat for 4 hrs at the airport que trying to get Long DF ride back home. No luck! I don't even think it allowed me to use DF at the airport. Then traveling down 95 the chance of getting a long ride request while going 70mph... Nope!


I know at Denver International Airport you can't use destination filter if you're trying to leave the airport. The app actually tells you to remove destination filter to receive rides. So, if you sat in the lot with destination filter on, you'd sit there without a ride until your max time online completely timed out.


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## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

IR12 said:


> Imagine just imagine, a pax agreeing to give cash and reports driver for extortion.
> 
> What happens then?
> I'll give you 10 guesses and the 1st 9 don't count.
> ...


What kind of idiot, I'll tell you which kind, the one that doesn't ask for tip upfront . Can't always be scared of the big bad boogey man which appears to be uber / lyft in your mind.

Oh and one last thing , lyft can suck a .... , I'll give you ten guesses as to what they can suck


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## btone31 (Jul 22, 2018)

Here in Sacramento, our regular Uber and Lyft rates after the cut are 58.5 cents per mile and 15 cents per minute. Unless a surge (Uber gave California drivers back multiplier surge), no trip further than 20 miles. I'm done with those long trips if I use Lyft. Uber gives us Cali drivers the destination info at request screen. I can accept or decline. Not only higher gas prices, but too much dead miling and lack of tips. Now on Lyft, I would tell passenger about why I can't do this long trip (low rates and dead miling a high chance). If passenger haven't gotten the hint by then (generous tip up front), then no ride.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

From Uber's website. I've never heard of anyone being deactivated for asking for a tip up front to cover the dead miles home. A lot of Philly drivers do this because NYC rides are common and they are a known $$$ loser without covering the back end.

*Can my driver ask for a tip?*
Drivers may request tips at their discretion.

Drivers care about rider ratings and do their best to create an ideal trip experience. While Uber does not require riders to offer drivers a tip, you are welcome to do so in cash, through the app, on riders.uber.com, or from your emailed trip receipt.

Please note that the trip fare charged to your payment account does not include a gratuity.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Make it a private ride?
> 
> L O L
> 
> ...


That poster did mention WITH the correct insurance and documentation.

You have the right to negotiate a return fee for rides that take you out of your service area. Generally accepted here is half the return miles. Get a square reader so you can charge, and create a paper receipt for the clients to sign.

I get these rides often enough that I have to be set up for them. About 50 % accept my terms. The other 50% I assume ride in a dirty stinking Prius.


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

mch said:


> From Uber's website.
> 
> *Can my driver ask for a tip?*
> Drivers may request tips at their discretion.
> ...


Yea, uber says this now.....

But remember when &#129300;

IN THE VERY BEGINNING OF RIDESHARE, BOTH COMPANIES SAID YOU DIDNT NEED TO TIP THE DRIVER?????

Pepperage Farm remembers...


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

You guys got me thinking about an Uber trip I might be taking in a few weeks. It's slightly different because it's Brooklyn to EWR in the middle of the night. Even though EWR isn't far from NYC, there are tolls. So I've posted in the NYC forum asking what kind of compensation they're expect to be fair. If any of you drive in NYC under the TLC, please check out my question on your forum (I don't want to hijack this thread completely). 😁


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


If a driver is asking for it upfront, then I'm not sure it's really a tip in the proper sense of the term. They are basically just asking for a higher fare.

Some drivers here claim it's okay, based on a vague outdated thing Uber once said (to pax not drivers), that has since disappeared from their website. But I personally wouldn't risk it.


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


I think ( but not so sure ) driver can claim toll fees for return trip via app.


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> You guys got me thinking about an Uber trip I might be taking in a few weeks. It's slightly different because it's Brooklyn to EWR in the middle of the night. Even though EWR isn't far from NYC, there are tolls. So I've posted in the NYC forum asking what kind of compensation they're expect to be fair. If any of you drive in NYC under the TLC, please check out my question on your forum (I don't want to hijack this thread completely). &#128513;


All I'm saying is.....

If the trip is going out of your market, just make sure they pay you for a full tank of gas ONTOP of whatever the fare is already.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

reg barclay said:


> I'd say technically speaking, if a driver is asking for it upfront then it's not really a tip in the proper sense of the term. They are basically just asking for a higher fare.
> 
> Some drivers here claim it's okay, based on a vague outdated thing Uber once said (to pax not drivers), that has since disappeared from their website. But I personally wouldn't risk it.


It's still on their website. I just went on their website and typed "Can a driver request a tip" and posted the search result.

Maybe I'm wrong but I was always under the assumption It's there for this very purpose.


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> All I'm saying is.....
> 
> If the trip is going out of your market, just make sure they pay you for a full tank of gas ONTOP of whatever the fare is already.


I just don't know if that is fair or not. Driving back into NYC is like a $20 toll the last I checked. So, maybe a full tank isn't enough.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> You guys got me thinking about an Uber trip I might be taking in a few weeks. It's slightly different because it's Brooklyn to EWR in the middle of the night. Even though EWR isn't far from NYC, there are tolls. So I've posted in the NYC forum asking what kind of compensation they're expect to be fair. If any of you drive in NYC under the TLC, please check out my question on your forum (I don't want to hijack this thread completely). &#128513;


Don't give those New Jersey savages anything extra unless it's for driving lessons! &#128514;


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> I just don't know if that is fair or not. Driving back into NYC is like a $20 toll the last I checked. So, maybe a full tank isn't enough.


You are running a business, sometimes SCREW WHATS FAIR!!!! Uber/Lyft screws over drivers everyday.

If you have to pay tolls, then add that ontop of the fair. Dont settle for less. Your car and wallet will appreciate it.


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

mch said:


> Don't give those New Jersey savages anything extra unless it's for driving lessons! &#128514;


Well, this would be a NY savage, since NJ drivers can't pick up in NYC! &#129315;

I'm from NJ originally, I learned to drive in NJ. What I will tell you is that If you can drive in NJ, you can drive anywhere else in the country. &#128521;

I became a much more calm driver after moving to Denver. Not much bothers me, I don't tailgate or use my horn, etc. However, the MINUTE I get in my rental car at EWR I become a complete psycho again! &#129315;&#129315;&#129315;



DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> You are running a business, sometimes SCREW WHATS FAIR!!!! Uber/Lyft screws over drivers everyday.
> 
> If you have to pay tolls, then add that ontop of the fair. Dont settle for less. Your car and wallet will appreciate it.


No no no...&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;...I'm going to be a PASSENGER back east! I want to make sure the driver is compensated fairly. I'm not sure just adding the toll on (plus normal tip) is enough compensation. Or...if in that market, the toll back is already added in (which it supposedly is in some markets). &#128513;


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

No no no...&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;...I'm going to be a PASSENGER back east! I want to make sure the driver is compensated fairly. I'm not sure just adding the toll on (plus normal tip) is enough compensation. Or...if in that market, the toll back is already added in (which it supposedly is in some markets). &#128513;
[/QUOTE]

Oh......Well I would like to say thank you for being a generous and considerate pax.

If that's the case, tip what you can give.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Wildgoose said:


> I think ( but not so sure ) driver can claim toll fees for return trip via app.


Nope! No toll if not on a trip with pax.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Ubertool said:


> lyft can suck a .... , I'll give you ten guesses as to what they can suck


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Nope! No toll if not on a trip with pax.


Actually, When a rider is going somewhere B from A and there are toll gates in the direction of A from B, rider is charged toll fees for the trip and drivers get paid those fees.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> I'm from NJ originally, I learned to drive in NJ. What I will tell you is that If you can drive in NJ, you can drive anywhere else in the country. &#128521;


Agreed. I'm from Philly and I work in NJ. People's driving habits aside, there's also the whole "we don't believe in left turns" thing that is probably written somewhere in the state's constitution. It's complete lunacy.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Wildgoose said:


> Actually, When a rider is going somewhere B from A and there are toll gates in the direction of A from B, rider is charged toll fees for the trip and drivers get paid those fees.


That's a special case that applies in some areas. If there's a toll from A to B, and from B to A. If you take pax from A to B you get that toll and only that toll. They will not reimburse you for the return. They also will not reimburse you for tolls to pu the pax. Given that the OP was talking about the Philly to EWR I would assume they are taking the turnpike and Uber ain't paying your return.


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

mch said:


> Agreed. I'm from Philly and I work in NJ. People's driving habits aside, there's also the whole "we don't believe in left turns" thing that is probably written somewhere in the state's constitution. It's complete lunacy.


I went to school in Maryland and one of my friends had to drive up to NJ to deliver something for work and asked me to go with him. This is before smartphones and GPS wasn't widespread yet (especially among college students). He started getting so frustrated with the inability to turn left, I'm like "you just take the jug handle"! He's like "WTF is jug handle?" &#129315;&#129315;&#129315;


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## WoodburyDriver (May 26, 2018)

I negotiate a cash tip upfront before I start the ride. If they don't have cash and agree to do a tip in the app, I start the ride and then have them rate me and and add the tip immediately in the app before I drive off. Too many long trips ended with "I'll tip you in the app" and I got shafted. When I explain this to pax they always agree or give me cash.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Some people might roast me for saying this, but this is how I look at it:
> 
> 1. Deny long rides, chances of getting tipped to help with deadheading back to philly are slim.
> 
> ...


Used to accept these in the old days with a surge. No more. Anything past 60 70 miles is a decline.

And I never ask for a tip. Explain my situation, then I shut up and see how they respond. If they don't offer something, politely decline the ride.

Always claim business or family reasons and apologize.

And yes, deactivation is a possibility for soliciting cash.


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## rideshareMN (Jan 25, 2017)

a long time ago, the app actually told riders that drivers could negotiate upfront tips on long rides that took them out of the service area; removing that language is simply another slap in driver's face; I believe WoodburyDriver above here used to drive in my market (MPLS) and it's fairly common for drivers here to request an upfront cash tip on long rides...if the passenger doesn't like it, then they are free to try their luck with the next driver; in our area, Lyft rates are 33c/mile -- there is never a reason to accept a long trip on the Lyft platform


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I don't ask for cash if I accept a long trip, I know what I am getting into before I ever accept it. Yes my earnings per mile take a shot, however my overall earnings are much better with a long trip. Long trips in some markets are a losing proposition so kno your market, know your costs and make an educated decision. If the opportunity presents its self I will always inform the PAX that I have to drive back with no rides. I do okay with tips in those situations.


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## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

New2This said:


> View attachment 415638
> 
> 
> View attachment 415639
> ...


Now that's a wiener . First guess as usual&#128513;


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## CyberGhost407 (Jan 16, 2020)

I live in central FL the longest ride i've had was 50 mins which was to Disney. Rides to the airport from my area are 35-40 mins depending on where i have to pick up the pax once i get the ping. once in Orlando i usually get consecutive requests no matter where i end up. I've heard of people getting ride requests to Tampa or Miami but I haven't yet. I would more than likely ask for gas and explain that I won't be able to find a ride back.

Luckily if it was in Tampa I have friends in the area so i could visit them and relax before taking the trip back.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> That's amazing, so you would make $23 an hour for that "easy work"? So your car never needs gas, tires, oil change, ... and never wears out! That's amazing!!!! For most of us there is a cost per mile to drive a vehicle, something in the 20 30 cents a mile range which means you might be clearing $35 for this trip. total loser. As far as DF, depends on where you are, sometimes it works, sometimes it's worse than driving home empty.


I never claimed my car didn't need gas, oil and upkeep on these long rides, not sure where you got that from. Every ride we take, short or long, requires all that. I was comparing this ride with the other shorter rides that the other drivers are taking, the drivers who are claiming long rides are not profitable. As I said making multiple pickups is more work than one long ride so yeah one long ride is easier. .

I highly doubt the drivers who are taking shorter rides are averaging much more than $23/hour on those multiple short rides. And guess what, those rides also require gas, maintenance on the vehicle. And they add more wear and get worse gas mileage.



DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> 1. I'm glad you love long rides, they can be beneficial in some markets or they can be time/money waster in others. $70 in three hours isnt bad, but I want to achieve that while keeping my deadheading TO AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUM!!!!!!!
> 
> You say you can get a DF ride back to your hometown.
> 
> ...


I was coming home to Maryland from the Poconos in PA and got several Lyft rides. This is in the middle of nowhere. If it was too far I passed but I grabbed a couple in Scranton and a few more down the road. I would think a drive back to a major city such as Philly would have opportunities. But as I said even if you get nothing $23/hour and better gas mileage than a lot of short rides is not a bad ride, and again it's easier.

As for your attitude that a paying customer is obligated to pay you extra for a full tank of gas that's complete nonsense. We've already discussed how the riders react to that. They paid hundreds of dollars for the trip, they are under no obligation to tip you or pay for your gas.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I never claimed my car didn't need maintenance, not sure where you got that from. Every ride we take, short or long, requires all that. I was comparing this ride with the other shorter rides that the other drivers are taking, the drivers who are claiming long rides are not profitable. As I said making multiple pickups is more work than one long ride so yeah one long ride is easier. .
> 
> I highly doubt the drivers who are taking shorter rides are averaging much more than $23/hour on those multiple short rides. And guess what, those rides also require gas, maintenance on the vehicle. And they add more wear and get worse gas mileage.
> 
> ...


We are also under no obligation to take them! Thus begins the negotiation. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. If you want to ride in my cushy comfortable SUV to Spokane I will require another $150 for the return trip.

Yes you can fly for cheaper
Yes someone in a dirty beat up little Prius will probably do it for peanuts.
Yes the bus will get you there for $50.

No I won't drive to Portland for only $250. I will need another $125 to do that.


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## DarkBerry (Dec 10, 2019)

Kinda unclear IMO, they can report you for asking for cash but cash tips are allowed. Hmm... This is on Lyft... Not sure about Uber.


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## Cary Grant (Jul 14, 2015)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Lyft/Uber bans drivers from asking for any cash payment from riders. Deactivation may happen if you get reported


This is not necessarily true. I've asked for, and received, quite a few "Return to Service Area" and/or "Return to Boundary" fees. I generally ask for 50% of what their upfront price estimate was, in cash or Venmo/Zelle, in advance, no exceptions (and definitely NOT via the app, for several reasons -- it's prohibited, it has serious limits, and pax are liars). Those that don't have an estimate? I have a price list for all the major cities, all the universities, and all the military bases within my state and some bordering states.

If they don't have cash, I offer to take them to an ATM. I've had a couple that agreed to this.

I've had a few broke mofos balk, but I left them on the curb, and the negotiation time made collecting the cancel tax pretty straight forward so I always win.

I've had one person in almost 18,000 rides complain, and the funny thing is that I didn't even ask that female canine for money. She was pulling an Barry Soetoro about my tip sign. All I got was an email, not even a warning, just a reminder, really. No vacation.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> We are also under no obligation to take them! Thus begins the negotiation. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. If you want to ride in my cushy comfortable SUV to Spokane I will require another $150 for the return trip.
> 
> Yes you can fly for cheaper
> Yes someone in a dirty beat up little Prius will probably do it for peanuts.
> ...


And if I ordered a ride and the driver tried to stick me up for an additional $150 on top of the $275 ride cost I would report you immediately, tell you to F off, and order another ride. You are right, you are under no obligation to take the ride when it pings. What you don't have the right to do is extort money from the customer after accepting the ride.


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## rideshareMN (Jan 25, 2017)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> And if I ordered a ride and the driver tried to stick me up for an additional $150 on top of the $275 ride cost I would report you immediately, tell the driver to get bent and order another ride. You are right, you have every right to decline the ride. What you don't have the right to do is extort money from the customer after accepting the ride.


LOL -- it's not extortion, it's bargaining; I believe pretty much all independent contractors have the right to increase the bill if the work is beyond the normal specs; If you don't want to pay a reasonable fee for a driver putting excessive dead miles on their personal vehicle -- then, no trouble -- just keep asking until you find a driver who will do it for a loss (eventually, it'll happen)


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> And if I ordered a ride and the driver tried to stick me up for an additional $150 on top of the $275 ride cost I would report you immediately, tell you to F off, and order another ride. You are right, you have every right to decline the ride. What you don't have the right to do is extort money from the customer after accepting the ride.


Yes, yes I do. If a ride takes you out of your regular working area you (I) have the right to negotiate a return fee. It is not extortion. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.

I don't think you know how extortion works.

For instance " I would report you immediately," is actually extortion.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> And if I ordered a ride and the driver tried to stick me up for an additional $150 on top of the $275 ride cost I would report you immediately, tell you to F off, and order another ride. You are right, you are under no obligation to take the ride when it pings. What you don't have the right to do is extort money from the customer after accepting the ride.


I'd agree if we had deets before accepting, but if you don't know the destination until you arrive at the pickup it becomes a shitty situation all the way around. I haven't requested cash before a trip yet, although a couple times I should have, as in my market it's a learning situation for everyone. Soon I will though.



[email protected] said:


> I went to school in Maryland and one of my friends had to drive up to NJ to deliver something for work and asked me to go with him. This is before smartphones and GPS wasn't widespread yet (especially among college students). He started getting so frustrated with the inability to turn left, I'm like "you just take the jug handle"! He's like "WTF is jug handle?" &#129315;&#129315;&#129315;


I had to google what the hell a jug handle was. Seriously?


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## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

mch said:


> Please note that the trip fare charged to your payment account does not include a gratuity


Where's that @MiamiKid ?



Darrell Green Fan said:


> And if I ordered a ride and the driver tried to stick me up for an additional $150 on top of the $275 ride cost I would report you immediately, tell you to F off, and order another ride. You are right, you are under no obligation to take the ride when it pings. What you don't have the right to do is extort money from the customer after accepting the ride.


It's not extortion. The pax can cancel at any time. Forcing a driver to take a trip because he accepted a request would be extortion or kidnapping. Driver also has the right to cancel if the terms are unprofitable. The app just matches drivers and riders. It's not a contract and can be cancelled by either party.


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## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> And if I ordered a ride and the driver tried to stick me up for an additional $150 on top of the $275 ride cost I would report you immediately, tell you to F off, and order another ride. You are right, you are under no obligation to take the ride when it pings. What you don't have the right to do is extort money from the customer after accepting the ride.


First of all , If you were my pax and didn't tip cash up front , you would never make it in the car as I would just wait out the timer never start your ride and collect my waste of time charge . I don't play that shit with pax , ride doesn't start till I want it to start , so yeah if pax wants to take me 250 miles from home for current rate , they will pay return fee or I shuffle that ass right in front of their face , and they will like it! Cheap ****ing people


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

VanGuy said:


> I had to google what the hell a jug handle was. Seriously?


I mean...it LOOKS like...a...wait for it...
...
...
...
...
jug handle! &#129315;&#129315;&#129315;


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> I mean...it LOOKS like...a...wait for it...
> ...
> ...
> ...
> ...


I get the name, it just looks like an opportunity to sit forever and never turn left thanks to traffic.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> Yes, yes I do. If a ride takes you out of your regular working area you (I) have the right to negotiate a return fee. It is not extortion. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.
> 
> I don't think you know how extortion works.
> 
> For instance " I would report you immediately," is actually extortion.


If there is nothing wrong with your actions then why are you hiding them from Lyft and Uber by insisting they not pay through the app?

You guys are too much, I love coming here and watching assholes try to defend their asshole behavior.


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

VanGuy said:


> I get the name, it just looks like an opportunity to sit forever and never turn left thanks to traffic.


When you try to drive in NJ, it doesn't matter if there are jug handles or not... you're just sitting in traffic, period! &#129315;


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> If there is nothing wrong with your actions then why are you hiding them from Lyft and Uber by insisting they not pay through the app?
> 
> You guys are too much, I love coming here and watching @@@@@@@@ try to defend their @@@@@@@ behavior.


Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls of the uber/Lyft world....we have found the troll!!!!!

First off, you cant report for extortion if I haven't started the ride. As someone else said, I would sit there and wait for the timer to end and gladly shuffle you and drive off!!!

I am in control of my car. I will run my business how I see fit. I dont care if the ride takes me 2 miles out of city limits, if I want to charge extra then I will. I have every right!

Something tells me that you run your business at a loss. You are probably the troll that accepts every 45+ minute ping. You are probably the Messiah of Ants.

Go away you troll.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> If there is nothing wrong with your actions then why are you hiding them from Lyft and Uber by insisting they not pay through the app?
> 
> You guys are too much, I love coming here and watching @@@@@@@@ try to defend their @@@@@@@ behavior.


I am not hiding from anybody! You can have a contract with either company. My contract with both of them allows for me to charge a return fee if a ride takes me outside of my normal work area. You do realize I cannot pick up in Stumptown. I cannot pick up in Spokompton or Boise.

You and I have no contract. NONE! Well at least until you pay me and sign my contract for services.

Have fun in that stinky Prius listening to traditional indian folk songs with that chain smoker for 5 hours!


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Some people might roast me for saying this, but this is how I look at it:
> 
> 1. Deny long rides, chances of getting tipped to help with deadheading back to philly are slim.
> 
> ...


You went about it wrong
... say 
I won't make enough from uber to make this trip worth it.... I'm sorry....
If they say nothing let timer expire and cancel for fee
If they offer.... take it
Make sure they have an idea what you'll make


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

mch said:


> It's still on their website. I just went on their website and typed "Can a driver request a tip" and posted the search result.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong but I was always under the assumption It's there for this very purpose.


I was actually referring to a different quote about pax getting charged for return things that used to do the rounds here, but was later removed from Uber's website.

When they say we can request tips, I think it means during or after the ride, but that doesn't create any obligation on the pax to tip. But if someone is saying they won't do the ride without a tip upfront, then I'm not sure that's even a tip. Sounds more like asking for a higher fare to me. I agree that the fares to some places can make certain rides a waste of time, but I've never wanted to risk all that negotiating stuff, and just cancelled instead.


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## PoorAssUberDriver (Jan 12, 2020)

DarkBerry said:


> This is the reason why I haven't done it thus far. It really doesn't seem right nor feel right to me to ask for a cash tip in advance. Something seems a bit shady about it and I don't want pax to think I'm a shady driver or trying to take advantage of them in any way.


Meh, I had a ride from San Diego to LA. before we got to see our destination before excepted. I just told the guy I couldn't do it. He asked why and I told him I have a kia sorrento that only gets 29mpg and that after traffic my day would be shot. Just wasn't worth the $120 bucks. Plus I only had half a tank of gas. I suggested that someone with a Prius would be better match for him. He said "how about if we go top off your tank and I give you $20 cash so we can just leave now?" Hop in my man!
Destination Filter back had a pax in my car all the way to La Jolla. $200 in trip earnings plus half tank of gas and $20 cash wasn't bad for a seven hour day.


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## Coyotex (Feb 10, 2019)

Unless I overlooked it, what's wrong with having a conversation with the pax, explaining the deadhead thing back to your area, but working out a deal if they cancel the ride, and give you XX $$ upfront, which is less than what they would pay U/L, all would be good? The extra insurance I carry is for rideshare, no exclusive to U/L, so I believe I'm covered, right? I'm not interested in people bashing me and telling me I'll get booted off U/L, I'm just asking if that's a good strategy or not? And if so, who has used it and results? **side note, I've never gotten a ride longer than 26 miles, so I'm not in a "long ride" market.


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## TemptingFate (May 2, 2019)

Coyotex said:


> Unless I overlooked it, what's wrong with having a conversation with the pax, explaining the deadhead thing back to your area, but working out a deal if they cancel the ride, and give you XX $$ upfront, which is less than what they would pay U/L, all would be good? The extra insurance I carry is for rideshare, no exclusive to U/L, so I believe I'm covered, right? I'm not interested in people bashing me and telling me I'll get booted off U/L, I'm just asking if that's a good strategy or not? And if so, who has used it and results? **side note, I've never gotten a ride longer than 26 miles, so I'm not in a "long ride" market.


Rideshare endorsement is not the same as commercial insurance. You wouldn't be covered in the event of an accident.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

OK. This is the way I did it when I was driving ...
Do NOT begin the trip until this conversation is completed ...

Me: Hi. I see we're going to The Big City?
Pax: Yea. We can do that, right?
M: Sure. But, it is a three hour drive - one way. That means three hours for me to get home, and I really doubt tht I'll be able to get a ride back so it's dead head all the way. Besides being three hours out of my life, it's three hours wear on the car and three hours fuel. Normally I charge fifty-cents a mile. It's a 150 miles so that's $75 before we leave town. Do we need to go to an ATM?
Now this is very important ... _shut up._
You just gave him a lot of info, and some math ... let em process.

If it goes too long you can say "If you don't want to, that's ok. I'll cancel the trip without any cost to you, and you can try another driver. Someone else may do it at a loss, I just can't ..."

Probably 80% of the pax's understand and agree and we go to an ATM, or they fish some cash out. I've had some negotiate with me, and I'll play that. I'll go as low as $50 ... One guy says, "How's yer gas .. oh, almost out. How about I fill your tank instead." That's a deal. Make a deal. Most people are reasonable - - and the ones that aren't? Do you really want to spend three hours with them on an uncomfortable ride to The Big City?


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


I know from experience that with Uber, if you except a cash payment for a trip, even at the rider's suggestion, and Uber becomes aware of the cash payment (if the rider reports you to Uber) it's a problem. You will receive an email from Uber saying that it has come to their attention that you accepted a cash payment for a trip, that it is a violation of the terms of service, and if it happens repeatedly it could effect your account.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> This is the best way to do it. If it is an excessively long trip, I simply tell the customer that I am not doing it. Usually, they ask why. I tell them that I am not doing it for the garbage rates that Uber/Lyft pays.
> 
> I have had one or two ask for what rate would I do it. I tell them that I will start the trip and we will go to my home. They can pay the Uber rate to that destination. I will then end the trip, transfer them and their belongings, if any, to my cab. We will make the trip in my cab and they can pay cab rates.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna guess that when you do long trips in your taxi, the pax tip well, they don't complain, and they don't report you to the taxi commission.


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## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

UberBastid said:


> OK. This is the way I did it when I was driving ...
> Do NOT begin the trip until this conversation is completed ...
> 
> Me: Hi. I see we're going to The Big City?
> ...


Agree except for one thing, get cancel fee for your time


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> You will receive an email from Uber saying that it has come to their attention that you accepted a cash payment for a trip


To which you reply: I did not receive a cash payment for a trip - you did.
I received a cash payment for a tip.
Do you want it? I will send a check.



Ubertool said:


> Agree except for one thing, get cancel fee for your time


I didn't do that because it was ME that was cancelling.
I don't think its fair to do it that way.
If we can make deal that is fair to both of us, great.
If not - no harm, no foul. 
Reset.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> To which you reply: I did not receive a cash payment for a trip - you did.
> I received a cash payment for a tip.
> Do you want it? I will send a check.


You can say whatever you want. And then when you get the activated you can come on here and post that after a gazillion rides and a better than 5.0 rating you were deactivated for no reason.


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## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> You can say whatever you want. And then when you get the activated you can come on here and post that after a gazillion rides and a better than 5.0 rating you were deactivated for no reason.


So many goodie goodies on this board , a spine is all you need . Wasting time is not a wise business decision. Beating a dead horse on this one. Enjoy the charity work , it's what uber counts on


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> You can say whatever you want. And then when you get the activated you can come on here and post that after a gazillion rides and a better than 5.0 rating you were deactivated for no reason.


I have always had the same attitude with any company I work for, and it is this:
IF you and I can get together and do some good for each other; if we can both make money .. then we have a great working relationship that will last forever.
IF you think that YOU are going to be the only one making money - you got the wrong guy.
SO, what I'm going to do is what I need to do to be profitable (and I'm not going to ask your permission to be profitable), and if you need to stop me from being profitable then do us both a favor and fire me post haste so that you can get someone in here to take advantage of.

I have enough confidence in myself, my skills and what I have to offer an employer ... I have never been afraid or all broken up about being fired. Never lost any sleep over it.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Cary Grant said:


> This is not necessarily true.


Not necessarily means possible.

At that point the driver has to decide if they want to risk his/her job.



Cary Grant said:


> I've had one person in almost 18,000 rides complain


18,000 rides but not 18,000 long trips.

Uber's pax help section used to state that drivers may ask for long trip return fees. A year or two ago Uber removed that statement from their website. Even when that statement was on the website I'd be leery about trusting Uber if a pax filed a complaint.

In more than 2 years of driving I've had 3 long trip requests and I cancelled all of them because the pax refused to pay cash upfront for the return trip.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Even when that statement was on the website I'd be leery about trusting Uber if a pax filed a complaint.


Are you really that AFRAID of 'losing' privileges with Uber?
Really?
lt is, literally, the crappiest job in the world.
And you want to drop to your knees to make Uber happy?

To all of you who are afraid of Uber ... this is what you need to do:
1) Go to the sac store. Tell the nice lady you're looking for a sac. Pick out the color and size you think will work.
2) Go to the ball store. Take your sac in with you and pick out a couple of appropriate size balls.
3) Take those two items to your tailor and ask him to sew them on.

With any kind of luck, you'll start feeling the effects in a week or so.

Bonus tip: If the sac you bought is strong enough, you can opt for Brass Balls. They clang when you walk and will give you a little more confidence and ability to stand up for yourself. Don't be anyone's bi0tch brother.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Make it a private ride?
> 
> L O L
> 
> ...


Private ride is only doable if you have commercial insurance. Otherwise, you risk everything that you own to make an extra $60 dollars. LOL.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> Are you really that AFRAID of 'losing' privileges with Uber?
> Really?
> lt is, literally, the crappiest job in the world.
> And you want to drop to your knees to make Uber happy?
> ...


Here you are passing judgement without knowing anything about mine or anyone's else's circumstances.

We work for these piece of shit companies because we need the addtional income to support our families and we need the flexible hours due to family and job responsibilities.

If I didn't need both of the above, I would have quit after the first week.


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## Sariandan (Feb 3, 2018)

As far as tolls go, Uber reimburses me for tolls coming and going. The only toll road we have is $1.25 and I always see $2.50 for my reimbursement. I use a pass, so it only costs me $1.50 round trip, so I always make an extra $1.


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Make it a private ride?
> 
> L O L
> 
> ...


Who's gonna call the cops?


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> Who's gonna call the cops?


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> I have always had the same attitude with any company I work for, and it is this:
> IF you and I can get together and do some good for each other; if we can both make money .. then we have a great working relationship that will last forever.
> IF you think that YOU are going to be the only one making money - you got the wrong guy.
> SO, what I'm going to do is what I need to do to be profitable (and I'm not going to ask your permission to be profitable), and if you need to stop me from being profitable then do us both a favor and fire me post haste so that you can get someone in here to take advantage of.
> ...


No I understand, this is about making money. When the rideshare companies offer us a ride where we are going to lose money, then we need to decline the ride.

Recently I took a ride that took me outside my service area meaning I could not pick up until I returned to my service area. The ride took me to a location from where I had to pay a toll to get home, after the ride was completed so the rideshare company didn't reimburse that toll.

Round-trip time was around an hour and a half. I made $22 on the ride. I had to pay a $20 toll out of pocket to get home. So I drove for an hour and a half and "made" two dollars. Obviously I lost money no matter how you look at it. The amount of gas I burned. Wear and tear on my vehicle. The value of my time. Having lost an hour and a half of time when I could've been making money.

My point is you just need to decline those rides. Say: "I need to stay near home because I have a building inspector coming to approve some work I'm having done on my house". "My mom is having a medical procedure done and I need to pick her up when it's over, I can't go that far away"."My wife is having contractions and I think today she's going to give birth. I need to stay near home".

If you demand a cash "tip" you can get in trouble. If you can convince the passenger that you need to stay in the area and can get their sympathy they're less likely to report you to the company for "goegraphic discrimination".


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## Matt101980 (Mar 24, 2019)

Philly driver here. I get about 3 to 4 NYC/JFK runs a month. At the start of everyone. I explain nicely I don’t get reimbursed for fuel or tolls back and if there willing to tip before the ride. Anything except a cordial no problem is an instant have a nice day and cancel. I had one guy tell me no while at the same time telling me 5 other driver cancelled on him.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Ubertool said:


> So many goodie goodies on this board , a spine is all you need . Wasting time is not a wise business decision. Beating a dead horse on this one. Enjoy the charity work , it's what uber counts on


I'm not saying take the ride. I'm just saying you can get in trouble for demanding a "tip". Tell me where the goody goody is in that? So you're saying it takes a spine to demand a tip? Or does it take a spine to cancel or decline the money losing trip? Care to explain? Oh go ahead and continue beating off your dead horse.



Juggalo9er said:


> View attachment 415787


I'm reporting this post... for being TOO funny!


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## Ubertool (Jan 24, 2020)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> I'm not saying take the ride. I'm just saying you can get in trouble for demanding a "tip". Tell me where the goody goody is in that? So you're saying it takes a spine to demand a tip? Or does it take a spine to cancel or decline the money losing trip? Care to explain? Oh go ahead and continue beating off your dead horse.
> 
> 
> I'm reporting this post... for being TOO funny!


The post speaks for itself , take it however you like, there's a saying I've heard but it may not apply to everyone , never smarten up a chump. Comprehend it however you like.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Matt101980 said:


> Philly driver here. I get about 3 to 4 NYC/JFK runs a month. At the start of everyone. I explain nicely I don't get reimbursed for fuel or tolls back and if there willing to tip before the ride. Anything except a cordial no problem is an instant have a nice day and cancel. I had one guy tell me no while at the same time telling me 5 other driver cancelled on him.


One day I picked up a guy that was going to a New York area airport (outside my service area). I said I didn't want the ride repeatedly. I should've just canceled right then. I kept saying I didn't want the ride and I was going to cancel and it wasn't gonna cost him anything but the guy kept going on and on. He said "how much do you want to make the trip?". I said it's not about that. I just don't want the trip it's not gonna cost you anything for me to cancel. He said "how about $20?". I said "are you sure?". "Are you OK with that?". He assured me he was OK with that and I took the trip. We had great conversation the whole way. At the end of the trip he thanked me profusely. I thought I had done a good deed until about a half an hour later when I got the threatening message from Uber about accepting cash payment for a trip.

I will never ever again do someone a favor were I accept a "tip" for making a trip that I don't want to make. It's not worth the few dollars.

In my opinion it's up to the rideshare companies to make these trips economically viable for us. I will never ever again do someone a favor that involves accepting a "tip" for making a trip that I don't want to make. It's not worth the few dollars.

In my opinion it's up to the rideshare companies to make trips outside our service area be economically viable for us. Taxi cab companies do that. If you want to take a taxi outside of the company's service area where the driver is going to have to deadhead back they tack on an extra fee. The rideshare companies could do this and still be cheaper than taxis. Instead they let us take the loss.



Ubertool said:


> The post speaks for itself , take it however you like, there's a saying I've heard but it may not apply to everyone , never smarten up a chump. Comprehend it however you like.


The post speaks for itself , take it however you like, there's a saying I've heard but it may not apply to everyone , never smarten up a chump. Comprehend it however you like.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Here you are passing judgement without knowing anything about mine or anyone's else's circumstances.
> 
> We work for these piece of shit companies because we need the addtional income to support our families and we need the flexible hours due to family and job responsibilities.
> 
> If I didn't need both of the above, I would have quit after the first week.


If you NEED income from Uber I fear for you.
And I feel sorry for you.
Because -- you *are* going to get screwed.
The longer you play with Uber, the more likely it will happen.
They get rid of experienced drivers first.

You can keep kissing their ass and working hard till they treat you like a used rubber and toss you aside (plop) ... or you can recognize your situation and make a plan for a change on _your_ terms. 
Change will happen whether you want it to or not.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


You explain that you are running a business not a charity. If they dont agree then say ty very much there should be another uber along shortly to take you,have a nice day! Unless of course you like driving people for free


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> I'm not saying take the ride. I'm just saying you can get in trouble for demanding a "tip". Tell me where the goody goody is in that? So you're saying it takes a spine to demand a tip? Or does it take a spine to cancel or decline the money losing trip? Care to explain? Oh go ahead and continue beating off your dead horse.


Hey Ubertool, let me handle this one.
It takes a spine to not drop to your knees just because you need money.
I would rather starve than blow Travis in a back alley somewhere ... but that's me.
I'll rob a ****ing likker store before _that_ happens.
And, it makes me cringe to 'meet' a grown man that thinks different. (assuming you are male, and if not - explains a lot).

Uber might 'fire' you for making a profit?
OOOooooooh. How scarey.
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick buddy, man up.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> I'm gonna guess that when you do long trips in your taxi, the pax tip well, they don't complain, and they don't report you to the taxi commission.


Your guess would not be inaccurate.



LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> I picked up a guy that was going to a New York area airport. I said I didn't want the ride repeatedly. I should've just canceled right then. I kept saying I didn't want the ride but the guy kept going on and on. He said "how much do you want to make the trip?". He said "how about $20?". I said "are you sure?". "Are you OK with that?". He assured me he was OK with that and I took the trip. We had great conversation the whole way. At the end of the trip he thanked me profusely. I thought I had done a good deed until about a half an hour later when I got the threatening message from Uber about accepting cash payment for a trip.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Read and pay heed^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I do not know how many times something similar to this has happened to cab drivers. The customer has a request that clearly is outside the fare structure. The driver quotes a price and the customer readily agrees, or the driver simply balks and the customer offers a nice price. The driver accepts. The driver does the job. The customer is nice the whole time. The customer pays what he said that he would.

Three weeks later, the driver arrives home, collects his mail and notices an envelope with a D.C. Government return address. He opens it:

./.......................report to the Hack Office on _________(date) at _____________(time). Bring you hack licence and trip sheets for___________ to _______________(dates)................................

When he gets there, the personnel at the hack office find the trip sheet with the extraordinary request. Then, they show the driver the complaint letter for overcharging from that customer who was so nice and either readily agreed or happily offered the price.

I know this one driver who did a moving job. The customer agreed to the price, then complained about overcharging. The customer sent the complaint letter the day after the driver had done the job. The customer had a list of everything that he put into the driver's cab. The Hack Office personnel sat down, went over every item and came up with a figure that the driver "should have" charged. The driver "overcharged" by a little more than five dollars. The Adjudication Panel that heard his case fined him three hundred dollars and gave him a thirty day involuntary vacation.

This is just one incident. I can fill page after page with incidents. This is why I do not do jobs out side the fare structure in the cab. This is why Lost and Found goes to the Police of Department of For Hire Vehicles and I get a receipt. This is why I will balk at a request from either a cab or TNC customer that involves too much more than Point A to Point B.

If these customers complain, the driver is automatically in the wrong.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

TemptingFate said:


> Where's that@MiamiKid ?
> 
> It's not extortion. The pax can cancel at any time. Forcing a driver to take a trip because he accepted a request would be extortion or kidnapping. Driver also has the right to cancel if the terms are unprofitable. The app just matches drivers and riders. It's not a contract and can be cancelled by either party.


And of course, TIPS ARE INCLUDED!!!
&#128526;



Cary Grant said:


> This is not necessarily true. I've asked for, and received, quite a few "Return to Service Area" and/or "Return to Boundary" fees. I generally ask for 50% of what their upfront price estimate was, in cash or Venmo/Zelle, in advance, no exceptions (and definitely NOT via the app, for several reasons -- it's prohibited, it has serious limits, and pax are liars). Those that don't have an estimate? I have a price list for all the major cities, all the universities, and all the military bases within my state and some bordering states.
> 
> If they don't have cash, I offer to take them to an ATM. I've had a couple that agreed to this.
> 
> ...


Pretty simple: Do not solicit cash.

And as I tell all my customers: No need to tip cause they're INCLUDED.

Of course, Miami always gets tipped. &#128513;
&#128077;


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## anteetr (Jan 24, 2017)

DarkBerry said:


> View attachment 415700
> View attachment 415701
> 
> Kinda unclear IMO, they can report you for asking for cash but cash tips are allowed. Hmm... This is on Lyft... Not sure about Uber.


Yet another reason why uber sucks, but lyft tries harder.


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## Smell My Finger (Jun 11, 2019)

Dude, just longhaul them, take a route that adds an additional 20-30 miles to the trip


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Smell My Finger said:


> Dude, just longhaul them, take a route that adds an additional 20-30 miles to the trip


Very dishonest and sleazy. Just decline the ride.

No need to be so lower classed. 
&#128526;


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Smell My Finger said:


> Dude, just longhaul them, take a route that adds an additional 20-30 miles to the trip


Truth


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> This is just one incident. I can fill page after page with incidents. This is why I do not do jobs out side the fare structure in the cab. This is why Lost and Found goes to the Police of Department of For Hire Vehicles and I get a receipt. This is why I will balk at a request from either a cab or TNC customer that involves too much more than Point A to Point B.
> 
> If these customers complain, the driver is automatically in the wrong.


I get all that. I really do.
I drove in San Francisco in the 70's ... a very highly regulated gulag even then.

But, the difference is that; back then I made money driving. I mean, I made real good money. I didn't have to beg for tips, gas was less than a dollar a gallon. I could lease a cab for 12 hours for less than a hundred bucks. And, I'd make $400 easy that shift. Friday and Saturday night, twice that. 
So, losing _that_ job would hurt a lot. 
But, these poor slobs are not cab drivers. They work for nothing. They therefore have nothing to lose. Most of them don't know that, but they suspect it. So the smart ones make money while they can and they know damn well that some day their number will come up and they'll be deactivated. 
Then they'll do something else.


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> They therefore have nothing to lose. Most of them don't know that, but they suspect it. So the smart ones make money while they can and they know damn well that some day their number will come up and they'll be deactivated.


Aint that the truth.... #ImGettingOut &#127939;


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Aint that the truth.... #ImGettingOut &#127939;


Good for you.
And another angel will get her wings.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> One day I picked up a guy that was going to a New York area airport (outside my service area). I said I didn't want the ride repeatedly. I should've just canceled right then. I kept saying I didn't want the ride and I was going to cancel and it wasn't gonna cost him anything but the guy kept going on and on. He said "how much do you want to make the trip?". I said it's not about that. I just don't want the trip it's not gonna cost you anything for me to cancel. He said "how about $20?". I said "are you sure?". "Are you OK with that?". He assured me he was OK with that and I took the trip. We had great conversation the whole way. At the end of the trip he thanked me profusely. I thought I had done a good deed until about a half an hour later when I got the threatening message from Uber about accepting cash payment for a trip.


Unbelievable. You have to wonder if asswipes like that pax have a conscience.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> One day I picked up a guy that was going to a New York area airport (outside my service area). I said I didn't want the ride repeatedly. I should've just canceled right then. I kept saying I didn't want the ride and I was going to cancel and it wasn't gonna cost him anything but the guy kept going on and on. He said "how much do you want to make the trip?". I said it's not about that. I just don't want the trip it's not gonna cost you anything for me to cancel. He said "how about $20?". I said "are you sure?". "Are you OK with that?". He assured me he was OK with that and I took the trip. We had great conversation the whole way. At the end of the trip he thanked me profusely. I thought I had done a good deed until about a half an hour later when I got the threatening message from Uber about accepting cash payment for a trip.
> 
> I will never ever again do someone a favor were I accept a "tip" for making a trip that I don't want to make. It's not worth the few dollars.
> 
> ...


Yup, one of those hard lessons. Pax absolutely a jerk; but, it's still on the driver.


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## XLnoGas (Dec 20, 2019)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Yea, uber says this now.....
> 
> But remember when &#129300;
> 
> ...


I vaguely remember Uber telling us to decline the tip twice. And only accept after that......
......
.....
....
...


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## Jst1dreamr (Apr 25, 2019)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


First off, a tip is a gratuity for a good job, second asking for more money is not asking for a tip it is asking for a higher payment. If you take calls that lose you money then you are a star in ubers eyes and a damn fool in everyone elses eyes. As long as there are fools that will do the calls uber will never pay more.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls of the uber/Lyft world....we have found the troll!!!!!
> 
> First off, you cant report for extortion if I haven't started the ride. As someone else said, I would sit there and wait for the timer to end and gladly shuffle you and drive off!!!
> 
> ...


Nah I'm no troll son, just a guy who can recognize an A-hole when he sees one. I happen to believe when a rider orders a ride he does not deserve to be hit up for a big additional cost or you will screw him by hitting him up with a cancel fee. The rider did absolutely nothing wrong and your attempt to punish him with the cancel fee just demonstrate how petty and childish you are behaving. You agreed to the cost for the return trip when you chose to accept the ride, the rider is not responsible for your trip home.

And no I don't run my business at a loss, what a stupid assumption to make. I have already shown the math on long trips when compared to shorter ones the other drivers apparently prefer. I was hit up with a reply about how stupid I was not to factor in gas, wear and tear, maintenance etc on the long trips, as if the short trips don't require the same (or more) gas and wear and tear. Guess he hadn't thought it through that far, this is the level of intelligence I am dealing with here.

The fact that you can't see how this is wrong says everything about you, and the drivers who agree with you. I don't expect you to agree, the board is full of rude A-hole drivers who consider our customers the enemy. Which is ironic as they are paying our salaries.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Nah I'm no troll son, just a guy who can recognize an A-hole when he sees one. I happen to believe when a rider orders a ride he does not deserve to be hit up for a big additional cost or you will screw him by hitting him up with a cancel fee. The rider did absolutely nothing wrong and your attempt to punish him with the cancel fee just demonstrate how petty and childish you are behaving. You agreed to the cost for the return trip when you chose to accept the ride, the rider is not responsible for your trip home.
> 
> And no I don't run my business at a loss, what a stupid assumption to make. I have already shown the math on long trips when compared to shorter ones the other drivers apparently prefer. I was hit up with a reply about how stupid I was not to factor in gas, wear and tear, maintenance etc on the long trips, as if the short trips don't require the same (or more) gas and wear and tear. Guess he hadn't thought it through that far, this is the level of intelligence I am dealing with here.
> 
> The fact that you can't see how this is wrong says everything about you, and the drivers who agree with you. I don't expect you to agree, the board is full of rude A-hole drivers who consider our customers the enemy. Which is ironic as they are paying our salaries.


Strongly agree.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> Hey Ubertool, let me handle this one.
> It takes a spine to not drop to your knees just because you need money.
> I would rather starve than blow Travis in a back alley somewhere ... but that's me.
> I'll rob a @@@@ing likker store before _that_ happens.
> ...


Drop to my knees? The additional tip made the trip financially viable. I wouldn't be losing money.

Plus the guy really needed to get to the airport. In my neck of the woods we call that kindness.

Funny how you went pretty quickly to blowing Travis. I guess we all have our own fantasies.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> Hey Ubertool, let me handle this one.
> It takes a spine to not drop to your knees just because you need money.
> I would rather starve than blow Travis in a back alley somewhere ... but that's me.
> I'll rob a @@@@ing likker store before _that_ happens.
> ...


Think you need to speak for yourself.


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## tc49821 (Oct 26, 2017)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Some people might roast me for saying this, but this is how I look at it:
> 
> 1. Deny long rides, chances of getting tipped to help with deadheading back to philly are slim.
> 
> ...


Got tell the people I don't get that and break down the details. If your feeling brave,tell them cancel it n pay u directly. Say I'll do it for $200.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Think you need to speak for yourself.


They can tagteam me if they want to.

I think there are people who come on this forum and encourage others to take foolish risks as a way of thinning out the herd because their market is oversaturated.

My other theory is that they like to come on this form and preen and show how much are they are because their wives or girlfriends won't let them say it out loud.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

tc49821 said:


> Got tell the people I don't get that and break down the details. If your feeling brave,tell them cancel it n pay u directly. Say I'll do it for $200.





LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> They can tagteam me if they want to.
> 
> I think there are people who come on this forum and encourage others to take foolish risks as a way of thinning out the herd because their market is oversaturated.
> 
> My other theory is that they like to come on this form and preen and show how much are they are because their wives or girlfriends won't let them say it out loud.


Think what you want. There's, definitely, class warfare, on this forum, very similar to society in general.

Know which side I'm on (Staunch Conservative). Also, understand my own financial situation. Guarantee you nor anyone else does. Uber revenue is 100% discretionary.

Everything is paid for. Uber bucks are fun bucks &#127864; &#127958; &#128184; &#128755; ⛳!!

Little jealous?

Don't think you realize how uneducated your view sounds. Speaks to insecurity. Consider some therapy, counseling or something.

MAGA 2020
&#128077;


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## maxroyalty1 (Mar 8, 2017)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


What areas and cities are you picking up in?


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Don't think you realize how uneducated your view sounds. Speaks to insecurity. Consider some therapy, counseling or something.


Care to explain? I'm saying if you repeatedly break the rules and get caught there will be consequences. Just like with any job or relationship.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> if you repeatedly break the rules and get caught there will be consequences


That's true ... but sometimes the consequences are worth it.

I have a friend. He is a real estate broker. During the foreclosure years he was closing ten or twenty houses a month. The bank would email him with an address and tell him to secure it and do an opinion of value. He knew that was about 30 days till he got the listing. He would put a sign up "Foreclosure coming soon" and his phone number.
Most of the time he'd have the house sold before he even got the listing - both sides of the commish.
Problem was ... it's against the rules to advertise a house you don't have a signed listing on.
His local board sent him a 'cease and desist' letter threatening that he'd be fined $100 for each violation. He made between $4k and $6k EXTRA on each sale for double ending it. (That means representing both buyer and seller and making both halves of the commission.)
Should he do it?

And, yes he did do it anyway. Finally they hauled him in front of the board and told him they were going to fine him $500 and if he kept doing it they'd ban him from the MLS. 
He hired a lawyer to fight that at a cost of $2k, and delayed for another four months.
He finally had to stop. It cost him about $4k in fines and legal bills - and he profited over $70k.

If you were him would you accept those 'consequences'?
It was a 5.7% expense to the sales.
And an easy yes for me.

So, as far as Uber is concerned ... would you be safe and keep a 'job' that doesn't pay? Or would you take the 'chance' of making some money and disobey some of their rules?
Personally, I don't need a 'job' that doesn't pay.
I don't need a 'client' that costs me more than I make.
So, I'll take a chance of losing nothing to gain something.


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## Cubs44 (Jul 12, 2019)

be careful how you word this, you cannot say "you need to pay me more" upfront. you can get deactivated. In Milwaukee there is an outdoor concert venue about 37 miles outside of town. kept on getting +45 request on Lyft. i called all these customers, they were all headed back to downtown area of Milwaukee, but not worth it, to get paid 35-38$ on Lyft. I told one lady...honestly it's just not worth it to me to take here back to Milwaukee area. she said "I will tip you 100$" I told her, sorry, but I have heard that a bunch of times, and passengers never tip. she said, "i will give you a $100 bill before i get in your car".....I replied i will be there in 5 minutes. ended up making $137 on that ride....now that was worth it.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Little jealous?


wow, really? Folks who exaggerate tend to not be honest about what they are exaggerating about. Just saying.


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## Prius_McGilli (Aug 27, 2019)

SHalester said:


> Folks who exaggerate tend to not be honest about what they are exaggerating about.


----------



## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> That's true ... but sometimes the consequences are worth it.
> 
> I have a friend. He is a real estate broker. During the foreclosure years he was closing ten or twenty houses a month. The bank would email him with an address and tell him to secure it and do an opinion of value. He knew that was about 30 days till he got the listing. He would put a sign up "Foreclosure coming soon" and his phone number.
> Most of the time he'd have the house sold before he even got the listing - both sides of the commish.
> ...


Talk about a straw man argument.

You keep missing the point. I'm not saying you should take non-paying jobs. I'm saying you should decline non-paying jobs. If you make a non-paying job pay by breaking the rules, and in the process risk getting kicked off the platform, you're risking access to the platform for a few dollars.

Is driving rideshare stupid? That's ANOTHER discussion.

Should we find better ways to earn money? That's ANOTHER discussion.



Cubs44 said:


> be careful how you word this, you cannot say "you need to pay me more" upfront. you can get deactivated. In Milwaukee there is an


Come on everybody! Let's all shout it together!

*SHILL! GET A SPINE! BOOT LICKER!*

That's what they say 'round here when you say something sensible.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> Care to explain? I'm saying if you repeatedly break the rules and get caught there will be consequences. Just like with any job or relationship.


Don't need to explain anything whatsoever. Have already done so. Go back and read several of my posts. My views should become crystal clear.

Thanks for your continued interest.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Don't need to explain anything whatsoever. Have already done so. Go back and read several of my posts. My views should become crystal clear.
> 
> Thanks for your continued interest.


No, you didn't explain, you just made a lot of bizarre statements.

My point is simple. If breaking the rules is your plan, you'll probably end up being one of the people on here who says "I was just deactivated for no reason", as though the rideshare companies have a program that randomly deactivates drivers.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

I think there is a lot of truth to the theory that those openly bragging about breaking the rules are part timers who really don't need this gig. That and keyboard courage in large doses turns this board into a pissing match to see who can brag about being the biggest A-hole to their riders. It's like some juvenile badge of honor or somthin'. 

.For the life of me I can't figure out how so many drivers see long rides as unprofitable. Again you would make basically the same hourly rate, if folks are making dramatically more than $23/hour I'd like to see verification of that.

You absorb much more wear and tear and burn more gas on 20 short trips. The miles back are deductible and if you are doing your taxes correctly they hold value, making the long ride even more profitable. It's a whole lot easier to make one pick, then sit back, relax, maybe call your wife on the way back instead of constantly taking rides for the same hourly rate. And again that's assuming you don't get one single ride back which is unlikely as you approach a major city such as Philly


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

For those unclear about the rideshare concept:
We are NOT in the business to hustle tips. One of the basic principles of rideshare is that we're NOT handling cash in the car, and the customer is free from fumbling for change at trip's end.
We appreciate tips. We don't expect them. Period.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> No, you didn't explain, you just made a lot of bizarre statements.
> 
> My point is simple. If breaking the rules is your plan, you'll probably end up being one of the people on here who says "I was just deactivated for no reason", as though the rideshare companies have a program that randomly deactivates drivers.


I don't break rules. Period.


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## Wardell Curry (Jul 9, 2016)

OP, you know the part of the NJ turnpike like that 15 mile stretch before you reach the Delaware memorial bridge only has 2 lanes. I would ditch the turnpike and take non toll road back. It's worth it. Traffic always hits on that section of it.


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## tc49821 (Oct 26, 2017)

If you want to be safe,I don't the whole fare . I'm only getting this and I'm driving back empty. Honestly it's close to a money loser. See if the pax takes the hint.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> No, you didn't explain, you just made a lot of bizarre statements.
> 
> My point is simple. If breaking the rules is your plan, you'll probably end up being one of the people on here who says "I was just deactivated for no reason", as though the rideshare companies have a program that randomly deactivates drivers.


Miami kid is a troll. He is not a driver or a passenger often. He or she has never presented anything that resembles knowledge of RS from either viewpoint.

Paid troll.

Just put on Ignore as that is the total sum value of it's posts.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> I don't break rules. Period.


So then what's your point? Apparently no point at all.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> So then what's your point? Apparently no point at all.


Apparently you can't read. No worries. You're going to the reject stack. &#128075;&#128075;


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## tc49821 (Oct 26, 2017)

I get people


Smell My Finger said:


> Dude, just longhaul them, take a route that adds an additional 20-30 miles to the trip


In some markets the per mile is really low .


Darrell Green Fan said:


> Nah I'm no troll son, just a guy who can recognize an A-hole when he sees one. I happen to believe when a rider orders a ride he does not deserve to be hit up for a big additional cost or you will screw him by hitting him up with a cancel fee. The rider did absolutely nothing wrong and your attempt to punish him with the cancel fee just demonstrate how petty and childish you are behaving. You agreed to the cost for the return trip when you chose to accept the ride, the rider is not responsible for your trip home.
> 
> And no I don't run my business at a loss, what a stupid assumption to make. I have already shown the math on long trips when compared to shorter ones the other drivers apparently prefer. I was hit up with a reply about how stupid I was not to factor in gas, wear and tear, maintenance etc on the long trips, as if the short trips don't require the same (or more) gas and wear and tear. Guess he hadn't thought it through that far, this is the level of intelligence I am dealing with here.
> 
> The fact that you can't see how this is wrong says everything about you, and the drivers who agree with you. I don't expect you to agree, the board is full of rude A-hole drivers who consider our customers the enemy. Which is ironic as they are paying our salaries.


In some markets the trip doesn't make sense . Especially if your going back and hour or more empty. I agree for the most part the pax should only have to pay the price in the app.

Your losing money driving back empty ,or your basically working for 10hr or less on the ride back. It fair to explain to pax that sorry economical the ride doesn't make sense . The pax can decide,I see the driver side and I don't mind tossing extra $40 in. He doesn't want to ,ok his choice .


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

*Q: *


Nats121 said:


> if asswipes like that pax have a conscience.


*A:* No.



Cubs44 said:


> you cannot say "you need to pay me more" upfront. you can get deactivated.


_..........correctamundo..............._



Cubs44 said:


> she said "I will tip you 100$" I told her, sorry, but I have heard that a bunch of times, and passengers never tip. she said, "i will give you a $100 bill before i get in your car".....I replied i will be there in 5 minutes. ended up making $137 on that ride...


You were fortunate that she did not complain, anyhow. You need not necessarily even mention the extra cash first. The customer can offer it unbidden; you can accept it; the customer complains. The driver then suffers the consequences. Ask me how I know this.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

tc49821 said:


> I get people
> 
> In some markets the per mile is really low .
> 
> ...


Do you actually make more than $23/hour doing short drives on a regular basis (read not late night surges)? That's what that ride pays, with no return rides which is the worst case scenario and not always the case regardless of markets. Can you not see the value in the miles back that are deductible? Is it not easier and costs less in wear and tear and gas to drive on the highway for one ride rather than in the city with multiple pickups/drops in those 3 hours?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> .For the life of me I can't figure out how so many drivers see long rides as unprofitable.


We can start with the more obvious reasons:

You are trying to hit a quota for a bonus or guarantee.

A long trip takes you out of or far from any surge zones.

You get stuck in horrid traffic which makes the trip take forever and fifteen days. Due to the low rates of compensation, your hourly bottom line is back to 1979.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> you would make basically the same hourly rate


This point is not necessarily invalid. There are times when I must remember to stop thinking like a cab driver.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> We can start with the more obvious reasons:
> 
> You are trying to hit a quota for a bonus or guarantee.
> 
> ...


These are all possibilities yes. But let's be honest, the push back didn't mention those factors which may or may not even be in play. No the complaint was about the long drive back which, as I have explained, holds value in terms of mile deduction and possible rides back. Getting stuck in traffic is simply conjecture, If the driver knew he would be turning right into rush hour traffic, well that would be totally different and every one of us have turned down rides for that reason. In this scenario, or to make a blanket statement about long rides and their profitability, that really does not factor in as we simply would not take the ride. If your argument is there could be an accident, well that's a stretch.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> These are all possibilities yes. But let's be honest, the push back didn't mention those


You interlocutors may not have mentioned those factors, but, my post was in response to this general statement:



Darrell Green Fan said:


> For the life of me I can't figure out how so many drivers see long rides as unprofitable.





Darrell Green Fan said:


> factors which *may or may not* even be in play.


The operative words are those emphasised



Darrell Green Fan said:


> No the complaint was about the long drive back which


That was, in fact, a principal point of the complainant, but, I responded to your general statement.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> , as I have explained, holds value in terms of mile deduction


My accountant tells me that I can deduct any mile run while logged onto the application. Check with your accountant to see if he/she will let you do the same thing.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> *possible* rides back.


The operative word is the one emphasised.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> Getting stuck in traffic is simply conjecture,


Marry, Sirrah, it is bitter experience. If you have not been stuck in traffic in your market (which is the same as mine), you have been walking, riding a bicycle or riding the subway everywhere that you go.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> *If the driver knew* he would be turning right into rush hour traffic, well that would be totally different and every one of us have turned down rides for that reason


A. The operative words are those emphasised, especially the underscored.
B. You do not know where the job is going until you have fetched the customer and started the trip. If I knew where every job was going before I accepted it, I would never be at the Gaylord.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> to make a blanket statement about long rides and their profitability, that really does not factor in


........yet the below quoted statement smacks of a "blanket statement about l ong rides and their profitability".



Darrell Green Fan said:


> For the life of me I can't figure out how so many drivers see long rides as unprofitable.





Darrell Green Fan said:


> as we simply would not take the ride.


If I knew where even half the rides were going before I accepted them, my accept rate would be about ten per-cent of what it is now. Further, I might accept more of the trips that I turn down, now.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> If your argument is there could be an accident, well that's a stretch.


Where did I raise any point about a collision, lack thereof, its possibility or odds thereof?

One thing that I did forget to mention is that you do lose on long trips during a surge. When we got a multiplier, the long trips suddenly became profitable. On Charlotte Surge, the l ong trips are at best, far less profitable than a short or mediocre. Do keep in mind that you get the same, say, four dollars seventy five Charlotte Surge flat payment on that trip from Eighteenth and K to Iowa Circle that you get for that trip from Eighteenth and K to Friendship Airport. In the time that it takes me to get from New Downtown to Friendship Airport, I can run at least five of the short jobs. This puts me twenty three dollars seventy five to the better while burning far less gasolene and I am ready for another job instead of having to sit in that TNC yard at Friendship Airport and wait for a job.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> You interlocutors may not have mentioned those factors, but, my post was in response to this general statement:
> 
> The operative words are those emphasised
> 
> ...


We get trip previews that tell us how long the ride is before you can decide to take it or not. It should not come as a surprise.

Of course my accountant told me we can deduct every mile, that was my entire point about how the return miles hold value

I address the surge issue in a previous post, if it's in play that's a factor. Few mentioned it when they made the blanket statement about the rides being profitable. .

As for traffic again as I explained we know the traffic patterns in our market. If the return ride is into rush hour traffic we decline the ride. So the only way you can face the nightmare traffic situation you described is if there is an unusual event such as an accident. Again this is a stretch


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> We get trip previews that tell us how long the ride is before you can decide to take it or not.


Make your statements for yourself. I do not get those previews. On occasion, I will get an occasional "long trip 45 min+" alert, but not always. I got burned twice yesterday afternoon on those.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> It should not come as a surprise.


As I do not get those previews, it comes as quite the nasty surprise. If I were to get those previews, I would be at the Gaylord less than one tenth of the time that I actually wind up there.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> Of course my accountant told me we can deduct every mile, that was my entire point about how the return miles hold value


Miles that you were going to run up anyhow do not necessarily make a given trip "profitable".



Darrell Green Fan said:


> I address the surge issue in a previous post


.......and the point is_____________________________________________________?



Darrell Green Fan said:


> Few mentioned it when they made the blanket statement about the rides being profitable.


On the current Charlotte Surge, the long trips are, at best, less profitable. In comparison to the short or mediocre, they are decidedly unprofitable. On the multiplier, the l ong trips were profitable. The customer still pays that multiplier, but most of it goes to the TNC. They are no longer profitable to the driver. We no longer get the multiplier. The Charlotte Surge was another pay cut that the lying TNCs* spun as something else. .



Darrell Green Fan said:


> As for traffic again as I explained we know the traffic patterns in our market


Perhaps I did not explain myself well. Have you ever been caught in traffic that you did not know was there? ......... a surprise? Have you ever been caught in traffic in which you had no choice about being caught? If none of these ever have happened to you, you _ain't been doin' no drivin' 'round right-cheer_.

.


Darrell Green Fan said:


> If the return ride is into rush hour traffic we decline the ride.


I do not get these "previews" of legend, song and story, so I do not know to decline the trip. If I could see that a customer wants to go to the Gaylord when the ping is offered, not only will I decline it, I might just let it expire out of spite. If I could see "Gaylord" when the ping is offered, I would NEVER be there.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> an unusual event such as an accident. Again this is a stretch


When you consider that an collision, water main break, signal malfunction or some similar disaster happens almost every rush hour in our market, _'tain't so unn-yoo-zhoo-wull no more_.

*I apologise for being redundant: I posted "_*lying*_" TNCs.


----------



## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

I assume you were Uber Pro as most of us are. Certainly most of the posters claiming these are unprofitable rides are getting the preview.

As for the surges I clearly said if there were surges that changes things. But none of the drivers who claim these are unprofitable said anything about surges or Quest, they constantly referenced the dead miles home and that's what I've been commenting on. Glad to hear you're still getting multipliers down there.

Of course I've been caught in unexpected delays, we all have. But the claim it's more likely on a long ride than a short ride is nonsense. Never seen a water main break on an interstate however I have seen accidents. Let's not pretend accidents are more frequent on long highway trips than they are on your local highway cuz they aren't. Bottom line is you're just as likely to run into a big delay locally as you are on a long trip, probably more with signal problems and water main breaks. However there are more escape routes. But again to claim it comes into play more on a long trip is just not true so it's really not a factor here when comparing short rides to a long one

Again with the business mile most all the objections seem to be about those dead miles home. I am simply pointing out that those miles hold value


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## Ardery (May 26, 2017)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


do that. absolutely. 
but never call it "cash tip" 
Call it "return compensation" 
and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS get it up front. BEFORE you start driving.

if they want to know why you need return compensation, give them these 3 reasons.

1. driving home empty - off the clock. no pay for your return time home. 
2. for the $90-100 bucks you make from the trip, you have to deduct your fuel for return trip. 
3. you'll also have to deduct tolls for your return trip.

I won't do it anymore for less than $40.

if they say they'll give you money or tip in the app once the ride is complete, you're taking your chances that they'll actually keep that promise. two years ago, 2 people stiffed me on Philly to EWR airport rides. never again w/o return compensation up-front.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Long distance trips are the real bargain for Uber riders. In the taxi business, if the trip takes the driver out of the official market area, back miles are automatically charged. In the mid 90's, the ordinary mileage rate for taxis in Pittsburgh was $1.40/mile. But once you got past the 10 mile radius from town, it went up to $2.80/ mile. The idea was to compensate the driver for the ride home.

A little booklet was distributed to the drivers which included a chart with notices like "Library 4.20, Johnstown, 77.00, McKeesport 4.20, Murrysville 8.40"

Those were common destinations for out of town trips. If you got a trip elsewhere, the radio dispatcher would tell you what to charge, and they wanted to know if you were taking the cab outside of the range of the radio anyhow.

Uber doesn't have the "back miles" idea, and that really makes the trips a whole lot less profitable. I'd be inclined to deny


----------



## Pfestus (Feb 9, 2018)

Just last night, Valentines Day, I was out Uber/Lyfting when a ping came in for a "+45 min" ride. I figured it would be to one of the nearby towns 25 or 30 miles away. When I got with the Pax, she looks like a girl of not much means and she is going 3/4 of the way across the state, 215 miles one way. That is 3 1/2 hours each way. I thought about cancelling, but then thought I have nothing going on the next day and I feel rested, and it would be a good fare. The Pax said she had to get home tonight as she works in the morning and the Greyhound doesn't come thru for another 5 hours. I got the feeling she was not paying for the ride, and I also got the feeling that the people dropping her off were paying, and also that they wanted to get her out of their hair. Everybody seemed on friendly terms, but it just felt weird. Anyway ride went well. Long night. She paid $342.67. I was paid $252.38. 7 hours on the road. Tank and a half of gas. Of course no tip. I don't really regret taking the ride, but will think hard before I accept such a long ride in future.


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## Sick Duck (Feb 11, 2020)

I know that's a different market than the one that I am familiar with, but to me, that's almost as ridiculous as a restaurant asking for a tip in advance for a pricey meal


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Sick Duck said:


> I know that's a different market than the one that I am familiar with, but to me, that's almost as ridiculous as a restaurant asking for a tip in advance for a pricey meal


I got to disagree with you on this.

I'll tell you why.

Uber and Ride Sharing are ideas based upon the idea of "dynamic pricing". Restaurants have printed menus, taxi cabs have to have their fares approved of by the Public Utility Commission here in PA, by other regulatory outfits in other places. A different business model entirely.


----------



## Sick Duck (Feb 11, 2020)

And the dynamic price was already calculated. What you're asking for is a higher rate than what Uber negotiated with the pax as they orded the ride. Per mile/minute rates have already been determined and set.

Imagine if you went to a restaurant and they charged you a varying price because you ordered something different than what they anticipated you would order. So now they want 50% more than what was printed on the menu.

Cool with you, right? Happily pay?


----------



## Buck-a-mile (Nov 2, 2019)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


If you go to a restaurant, and the waitress asked you for a tip before she serves you, would you stay and eat there?


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Sick Duck said:


> And the dynamic price was already calculated. What you're asking for is a higher rate than what Uber negotiated with the pax as they orded the ride. Per mile/minute rates have already been determined and set.
> 
> Imagine if you went to a restaurant and they charged you a varying price because you ordered something different than what they anticipated you would order. So now they want 50% more than what was printed on the menu.
> 
> Cool with you, right? Happily pay?


By Uber, the dynamic price was calculated, but not by the provider of the ride.

The rider certainly has an option to re-request and see if the next partner accepting the ping will do it for the price listed.

The problem is that it isn't realistic for either Uber or the passenger to expect the driver to take a money-losing trip or one which provides very low earnings for the effort required.



Buck-a-mile said:


> If you go to a restaurant, and the waitress asked you for a tip before she serves you, would you stay and eat there?


Maybe not , but if I go to a bordello, perhaps.


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## Sick Duck (Feb 11, 2020)

By signing up for Uber at the service level that you selected and are equipped to provide, you agreed to drive for the rates published, not set your own rates on a ride by ride basis.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I assume you were Uber Pro


You know what happens when you *ass*_u_me.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> most of us are. Certainly most of the posters claiming these are unprofitable rides are getting the preview.


On what do you base such a statement?



Darrell Green Fan said:


> . Glad to hear you're still getting multipliers down there.


_Who_ is getting multipliers _where_? Uber and Lyft are charging them to the customers everywhere, but are not paying multipliers to the drivers. They are paying Charlotte Surge flat payout surges.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> But the claim it's more likely on a long ride than a short ride is nonsense.


Who made such a claim where?



Darrell Green Fan said:


> Never seen a water main break on an interstate


I have not either. I have seen it on heavily travelled "surface roads" and I have seen a water main break on a "surface road/street" back up an interstate.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> Let's not pretend accidents are more frequent on long highway trips than they are on your local highway cuz they aren't.


Who is doing that?



Darrell Green Fan said:


> Bottom line is you're just as likely to run into a big delay locally as you are on a long trip,


You can minmise your losses or work around a delay on a short trip far more easily than you can one on a l ong trip. If nothing else, the delayed short trip is over much more quickly than the delayed long trip. You are ready to move onto your next job on the short trip before you are on the long trip.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> However there are more escape routes.


...............on a short trip on "surface streets", yes...................



Darrell Green Fan said:


> But again to claim it comes into play more on a long trip is just not true so it's really not a factor here when comparing short rides to a long one


The damage done by a delay on a long trip is worse than that on a short one. Who claimed that "it comes into play more" on a long trip than a short?



Darrell Green Fan said:


> those miles hold value


The paid mile holds more value.



I_Like_Spam said:


> In the taxi business, if the trip takes the driver out of the official market area, back miles are automatically charged.


........in Pittsburgh, New York and several other markets; yes..................in the Capital of Your Nation and its Metropolitan Area; no............

In the mid 90's, the ordinary mileage rate for taxis in Pittsburgh was $1.40/mile. But once you got past the 10 mile radius from town, it went up to $2.80/ mile. The idea was to compensate the driver for the ride home.

A little booklet was distributed to the drivers which included a chart with notices like "Library 4.20, Johnstown, 77.00, McKeesport 4.20, Murrysville 8.40"

Those were common destinations for out of town trips. If you got a trip elsewhere, the radio dispatcher would tell you what to charge, and they wanted to know if you were taking the cab outside of the range of the radio anyhow.



I_Like_Spam said:


> doesn't have the "back miles" idea,


It does, as long as you are taking long trips within your market. If I am driving the Uber car, if I cross a state line, I can take trips in that state. If I do that in the cab, I can take a trip only in response to a telephone call or previous arrangement and only if it is returning to my jurisdiction of licensure.



Buck-a-mile said:


> If you go to a restaurant, and the waitress asked you for a tip before she serves you, would you stay and eat there?


I have been in restaurants where they automatically add the gratuity and tell you so on the menu card. This is not just for large parties, either.



Sick Duck said:


> By signing up for Uber at the service level that you selected and are equipped to provide, you agreed to drive for the rates published, not set your own rates on a ride by ride basis.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^*WHERE* have I read THIS _previously_?^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## WhydoIdoit (Aug 16, 2018)

I have an XL vehicle and I tell the Pax I will do it if they cancel and re-request an XL ride.

Still using Ubers platform and the pax is getting an XL ride. It's the pax option to use it. Some won't do it, but I have never heard from Uber about doing it.

My SUV is a Hybrid so it makes it worth it


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

WhydoIdoit said:


> I have an XL vehicle and I tell the Pax I will do it if they cancel and re-request an XL ride.
> 
> Still using Ubers platform and the pax is getting an XL ride. It's the pax option to use it. Some won't do it, but I have never heard from Uber about doing it.
> 
> My SUV is a Hybrid so it makes it worth it


Hopefully a pax reports it soon.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> I completely agree. We as drivers are being paid WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY LESS than what traditional taxis are being paid. We are being paid cab rates from the 70s-80s.
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, I'm being paid .65 cents a mile......BEFORE TAXES!!!!! I cant make this gig work anymore. I used to love long rides, but after some number crunching, I'm losing money /barely breaking even.
> 
> ...


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

I'm too lazy to break out each of your quotes individually as you like to do so I'll respond within your post.



Another Uber Driver said:


> _You know what happens when you *ass*ume._
> 
> With regard to Pro every driver I talk to is at this level and gets the previews. At 4.85/85%/4% those levels are not hard to attain, assumed you and most of the other drivers would be able to get to a bar that is so low.
> 
> ...


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## WhydoIdoit (Aug 16, 2018)

Demon said:


> Hopefully a pax reports it soon.


Why? I am under no obligation to accept the ride and have the right to refuse any ride.

Instead of canceling, I give the pax the option or it's just another cancelled ride.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I'm too lazy to break out each of your quotes individually as you like to do so I'll respond within your post.


I started a point-by-point reply, but, let us save the bandwidth and reduce it to simpler terms:

Most drivers to whom I talk are not at that level. I do have the customer ratings; well within tolerances. Never will I meet the acceptance/cancellation requirements. Most drivers to whom I talk never get close to those acceptance/cancellation levels.

Your "arguments" against mine depend heavily and repeatedly on my allegedly knowing where these jobs are going. I do not know where they are going until I open them. If I knew where they were going, or, even the general direction, I could duck the long and unprofitable trips as I do, in fact, know the traffic patterns. I know them better than almost every UberX/Lyyft driver, in fact.

An aside and a half:

Out of curiosity, do legitimate cancellations (no show/incorrect address) count against you for Uber Pro?

If they do, this could go some distance to discourage shuffling. Surges discourage shuffling, as under surge, it pays more to haul a customer than not to haul one. For someone like me, who actually does know what he is doing out here, knowing the destination or direction thereof would be a good exchange over shuffling. All the same, I am not that much of a shuffler except on POOL. I will shuffle an X on occasion, but I am not as much of a shuffler as many others. My low acceptance rate would be the real sticking point. I am not going to waste my time on difficult to cover jobs. Knowing more about a job up front would not be a fair exchange for me.

Still, the best way to discourage shuffling is for the TNCs to make it profitable actually to haul a job. Reduction or elimination of the cancellation fee will not do it. All that it would accomplish is more rejected requests. Ask any Lyft Shared user about that one.


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## Ylinks (Apr 22, 2019)

Pfestus said:


> Just last night, Valentines Day, I was out Uber/Lyfting when a ping came in for a "+45 min" ride. I figured it would be to one of the nearby towns 25 or 30 miles away. When I got with the Pax, she looks like a girl of not much means and she is going 3/4 of the way across the state, 215 miles one way. That is 3 1/2 hours each way. I thought about cancelling, but then thought I have nothing going on the next day and I feel rested, and it would be a good fare. The Pax said she had to get home tonight as she works in the morning and the Greyhound doesn't come thru for another 5 hours. I got the feeling she was not paying for the ride, and I also got the feeling that the people dropping her off were paying, and also that they wanted to get her out of their hair. Everybody seemed on friendly terms, but it just felt weird. Anyway ride went well. Long night. She paid $342.67. I was paid $252.38. 7 hours on the road. Tank and a half of gas. Of course no tip. I don't really regret taking the ride, but will think hard before I accept such a long ride in future.


No way that was a bad decision. (Unless,of course, you have hemorrhoids) Let's say a tank and a half of gas knocks you down to $200. That leaves you with over $28/hour. Your standard mileage write off is almost equal to your pay. So you made $28 an hour after taxes. You're not going to do any better than that. Sure, some people will complain about tires, oil changes, breaks, blah, blah, blah, while they tool around town making half of that.


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## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

Just got a Long ride outta the airport last nite, negotiated for a fair tip to make up for return... Was only 120 miles round trip.... But still Ubers $42 was not acceptable.. so anyway we get there.. a remote town in Arkansas and she advised me she's coming back tomorrow... I jokingly ask if she planned on Ubering... She says yep.. which I then explain the harsh reality of a small town in ark. Not having Uber at all and that she was probably going to be stranded... Gave her my number and told her to call me if so and maybe I could do a private pick up... Well just got the text... $120 later she now has a ride to the airport at 3:30 today... Bahahhah I love this game....that wraps up my daily goal in one swoop...


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

WhydoIdoit said:


> Why? I am under no obligation to accept the ride and have the right to refuse any ride.
> 
> Instead of canceling, I give the pax the option or it's just another cancelled ride.


It's illegal.


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## [email protected] (Feb 10, 2020)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Out of curiosity, do legitimate cancellations (no show/incorrect address) count against you for Uber Pro?


This may be different by market, but in mine, legitimate no-shows where you wait out the timer and Uber says to cancel do NOT count against your cancellation rate. Every other time I've cancelled for any reason, it has counted against me. I can't say what reason I used for those cancellations, though.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

I don’t mention tips ever and don’t care about them. Once you start grovelling for tips, they own you. Also I have an eidetic memory for faces, any type of math and alphanumeric strings. If I saw you once for 5m 3 years ago, when I see you again today I’ll instantly know your address, your name, how much weight you’ve gained, every word you said in my car and of course how much of a prick you are. If I found your behaviour deficient in any way you will be severely punished in a way that’s annoyingly untraceable/unprovable for you. I always roll with plausible deniability when doing you. Oh what I took a wrong turn when you weren’t paying attention and were in the farmlands? Oh what my car broke down mysteriously after I pulled that piece out and now you have to call another Uber which will take forever and cost you triple? I don’t need you or this job. I can mess with you all day. I can show up at your wife’s work and tell her about what you’ve been up to with Cindy. You don’t know any Cindys but good luck convincing your wife that I’m the liar!


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## Ylinks (Apr 22, 2019)

UberAdrian said:


> . . . Also I have an eidetic memory for faces, any type of math and alphanumeric strings. If I saw you once for 5m 3 years ago, when I see you again today I'll instantly know your address, your name, how much weight you've gained, every word you said in my car and of course how much of a prick you are. If I found your behaviour deficient in any way you will be severely punished in a way that's annoyingly untraceable/unprovable for you. . . . I can mess with you all day. I can show up at your wife's work and tell her about what you've been up to with Cindy. You don't know any Cindys but good luck convincing your wife that I'm the liar!


So much for the myth that rideshare drivers are socially well adjusted.


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## Funky Monkey (Jul 11, 2016)

DarkBerry said:


> I live in Philadelphia. I've done quite a bit of rides to Newark, NJ airport which is about 85 miles away, 1.5hr drive in one direction. They've all been regular rides, never got any premium or XL requests for that distance. When they tip about $20 it makes the fair decent because I have to drive 85 miles back to Philly plus pay another $10 in tolls. Of the rides I've taken there, about half the time they tip, the other half they don't. I'm considering requesting an up front cash tip of $30. I've never done that before but its either that or just decline these requests from now on. What's Uber and Lyft's policy on requesting up front cash tips? Is it OK to do so? If you request up front cash tips from your pax, how do you say it to make the passenger understand why you're asking for it? How often do the pax agree or disagree?


I've only done this once because I was floored and not thinking clearly. Just politely ask for another "$0.60" per mile in cash to pay for the deadhead home. That way you're still insured by Uber or Lyft (and not cheating them for whatever that's worth)


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Ylinks said:


> So much for the myth that rideshare drivers are socially well adjusted.


So much for having a sense of humour and recognizing obvious jokes! I think it's still my bad though, I said the joke in Canadian and it didn't translate well!


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## MothMan (May 15, 2016)

IR12 said:


> Better question: Yep, I'm going there...
> WHAT kind of idiot drives 1 1/2 hour, has to deadhead back and thinks it's practical?


In my market, I'd say the majority think it is more than practical. They proudly post screenshots of those rides. Their cost per mile matters not.



Pfestus said:


> she is going 3/4 of the way across the state, 215 miles one way. That is 3 1/2 hours each way. ...... I got the feeling she was not paying for the ride, and I also got the feeling that the people dropping her off were paying


If I thought the person in the vehicle was not the one paying, I'd pass. I don't want to deal with a sob story when the ride is mysteriously canceled 50 minutes into the trip.


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## WhydoIdoit (Aug 16, 2018)

Demon said:


> It's illegal.


Please site law in New Penal Code?

Unfortunately, "Well it just is", won't cut it.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

WhydoIdoit said:


> Please site law in New Penal Code?
> 
> Unfortunately, "Well it just is", won't cut it.


Look up bait & switch.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I started a point-by-point reply, but, let us save the bandwidth and reduce it to simpler terms:
> 
> Most drivers to whom I talk are not at that level. I do have the customer ratings; well within tolerances. Never will I meet the acceptance/cancellation requirements. Most drivers to whom I talk never get close to those acceptance/cancellation levels.
> 
> ...


Yeah I was wondering about the cancellations too but they don't appear to count. But then again I don't shuffle, it's wrong and not worth it for a measly 3.75 when I've already gone to the trouble of arriving. So it's hard to say if a few a week are having an effect on my overall rate.

Again in your case it may not make sense to take long rides if you really are in areas with constant surges. Most surges I have seen don't last and you end up wasting a lot of time trying to get to the area, at least that's been my experience. You don't get the preview but you do get the +45 minute thingy, do you automatically reject those?

I have already gone over the math and the reasons why a long ride is easier and more efficient with regard to gas mileage and wear and tear. Nobody has really come up to claim they consistently make more than the $23/hour this ride would generate doing a bunch of short rides. And again you were the only poster I saw to even mention surges. No the claim was these rides are not profitable with the dead miles being the reason. And the math is $23/hour including the dead miles back and the $10 toll and that's worst case scenario of no rides back which is obviously not always the case going back to a major city such as Philadelphia. .


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## oldnavyht3 (Jul 17, 2019)

DarkBerry said:


> This is my fear exactly. The customer going off on me for asking for an upfront cash tip. The customer does actually have a point, they're paying $250 and feel that should include everything. This is why many DON'T tip because they feel they're already paying a lot especially for a really long ride. If U/L weren't so greedy and paid us a fair percentage of the fare, it wouldn't be an issue. If its a long trip, it should go up to $1 per mile plus 25 cents per min for time. U/L puts us in a no win situations. It sucks. May have to just start declining these long rides altogether...


That is why all of this started in the beginning. U/L used to get good mileage wages and then they got greedy thinking no one would listen to the drivers for fair pay... well in california the govenor listened.


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## Kdmedic (May 23, 2019)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Some people might roast me for saying this, but this is how I look at it:
> 
> 1. Deny long rides, chances of getting tipped to help with deadheading back to philly are slim.
> 
> ...


Refuse the trip.



mbd said:


> You negotiate the total price and let them cancel the trip, and make it a private ride with proper insurance. If they want to be in Uber platform, then don't ask for a return fee.
> Tell them upfront and be honest.


What's uber's stand on it?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Yeah I was wondering about the cancellations too but they don't appear to count.


Thank you for the insight.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> I don't shuffle, it's wrong and not worth it for a measly 3.75 when I've already gone to the trouble of arriving. So it's hard to say if a few a week are having an effect on my overall rate.


Overall, it does pay if you are shuffling short trips. It also pays on POOL. It does not pay on Shared (unless you are shuffling Passenger One) because Lyft does not pay for no-shows on Shared (it does, however, collect from the customer on them). I am not worried about right or wrong if I am driving the Uber/Lyft car. I am if I am driving the cab.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> in your case it may not make sense to take long rides if you really are in areas with constant surges.


"Constant" may not be accurate; "frequent" would be more accurate.

I prefer to work mostly what I know: D.C., Arlington, Bethesda, Alexandria and Silver Spring. The surges are frequent in the first three and more than others in the last two. I am not averse to working other areas and I will if I am there, but I will admit to heading toward more familiar areas if I am in an unfamiliar one. If I am in Western Fairfax or Loudon, I will head for Arlington or Falls Church. If a ping comes, I will accept it if it is not POOL and I think that I can cover it easily. If I am in Southern or Eastern Prince George's County, I will head back to D.C.. If a ping comes and it is not POOL and I think that I can cover it easily, I will accept it.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> Most surges I have seen don't last


They do tend to last longer in Downtown, Georgetown, Foggy Bottom and Capitol Hill. If I can get a short trip in any of those, usually, I can get another one with a surge.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> and you end up wasting a lot of time trying to get to the area, at least that's been my experience.


You do not chase the surge. I will "head that way", but, if I get a ping, I will not necessarily decline it.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> the +45 minute thingy, do you automatically reject those?


...........not necessarily....................I will reject them during surge. The economics dictate that. I will reject them during rush hours. It takes too long to run them for Uber/Lyft garbage rates. If it is slow, I will accept them



Darrell Green Fan said:


> they consistently make more than the $23/hour this ride would generate


I will claim it. I do it running short and mediocre trips. Please do not ask me for a screenshot. I do not know how to do those. Fifty people have tried to show me or explain to me how to do it. Every time that I have tried, it has come to grief.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> profitable with the dead miles being the reason.


I forget if I did make these statements on this topic or others, but I have made similar statements in the past. I am not about to go back and look. I have made the claim that they are not profitable in rush hours or surges. The arithmetic is:

On a short or long ride, you get the same, say, five dollars. If I go to Dulles Airport from downtown, I get the twenty nine dollars plus five dollars (at that rate, the surge factor is over 2X, Uber is pocketing most of the money). It takes me forty five minutes in rush hour. If I go from downtown to DuPont, I get nine dollars for ten minutes of my trouble. When I drop, I am ready for another surge ping. If I can get another shorty, I have eighteen dollars for twenty five minutes of my trouble.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> And the math is $23/hour including the dead miles back and the $10 toll and that's worst case scenario of no rides back which is obviously not always the case going back to a major city such as Philadelphia. .


You get burned in other markets on the dead miles because when you cross state lines, you can not pick up in the other state. I am not sure if Philadelphia drivers can pick up in the Jersey or Delaware suburbs. I do, however, know that Jersey drivers can not pick up in New York City or State. A trip from, say, Hoboken either to Idlewild or LaGuardia is not uncommon. The driver has to dead run back to Jersey, gets hit with some non-reimbursable tolls, thus, he gets burned. This happens less frequently here, as we can pick up in D.C., Virginia or Maryland. Here, you get burned more on surge losses and long, time consuming trips.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Thank you for the insight.
> 
> Overall, it does pay if you are shuffling short trips. It also pays on POOL. It does not pay on Shared (unless you are shuffling Passenger One) because Lyft does not pay for no-shows on Shared (it does, however, collect from the customer on them). I am not worried about right or wrong if I am driving the Uber/Lyft car. I am if I am driving the cab.
> 
> ...


Dang I did not know you drive the DC market, so do I driving exclusively days. I see surges in NW every morning, but I can't get to that area without going offline. I often get drops deep downtown like K Street when the surges are way north up Connecticut or Wisconsin Ave. So that means going offline and missing rides to get to that area, only to be taken down to the Navy Yard or whatever forcing me to to go offline again. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me so I stopped chasing surges, even surges that are there every morning and lasts for hours.

PS I hate Dulles rides too. I have not figured out how to make the surrounding area work so I dead head in the toll free lane back to the beltway. But the ride I took from Rockville to just over the Delaware line up 95 paid $134 with a tip (riders tend to tip more on long rides as you probably noticed) and took 2 hours. It was against traffic and by the time I returned it was late enough to avoid the last of Baltimore morning rush.

I was surprised to get rides in Aberdeen on the way back but even if I didn't the 4 hours I spent on this ride worked out to be $33/hour, my Civic gets 40 MPG on the highway so maybe $8 in gas and again the miles deducted made that $134 basically tax free To make $134 in DC requires me to work about 5 hours or more and bang out 20 rides. I was very happy with that one long ride. So I guess we're both good, I'll take the long ones you are passing up and that will leave more short ones for you.


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## Nate5Star (Dec 18, 2019)

Don't both Uber and Lyft say the ride is a potential long ride in excess of 45 minutes, when it pops up. I have never, and will never accept one of these rides. I drive in north-central New Jersey. I have my own little rule. If the ride is in excess of 30 minutes going south, I explain that it is essentially a two way trip for a one way fare as I will not get a fare going north, and then I cancel. If the the ride is in excess of 30 minutes going north, I have no problem. I just switch on Uber's destination option and invariably get a couple of rides, usually short, heading south.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Buck-a-mile said:


> If you go to a restaurant, and the waitress asked you for a tip before she serves you, would you stay and eat there?


No, however if a restaurant 100+ miles away asked me to come eat there I would expect a discount before I went.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I'll take the long ones you are passing up and that will leave more short ones for you.


That looks like a fair exchange.

Unless you can manage to stay in the suburbs, it does not pay to drive TNC in morning rush hour. If you are going to work the morning rush hour by starting in the suburbs, you stand a better chance of hitting Powerball than you do staying in the suburbs in the morning rush hour. I drive the cab in morning rush hour. Between Uber Taxi pings and street hails, it pays far better.

As you so correctly observe, if you can get up Wisconsin, Connecticut or out Massachusetts Avenues, you are going to end up with something that goes downtown or to the Hill where there are no surges. Every once in a while, you might find a surge in the residential parts of the Hill (Lincoln or Stanton Parks). If you end up downtown, you might find a surge in Foggy Bottom, but it is quite difficult to get out of Foggy Bottom in the morning rush hour. You wind up wasting all sorts of time.

I generally find that the TNC yard at Dulles is a waste of time. If eighty per-cent of the people who fly into Dulles Airport are supposed to be going downtown, I manage to beat the odds. All that I ever get out of there is Reston and Herndon. Once I drop there, though, I do get steady pings.

What you do not want out there is something that goes back to Dulles Airport or to one of the Silver Line subway stops. There is one out there that has a Kiss-And-Ride line that is worse than the Circle of Death at Union Station. If you can pop out a bunch of mediocre trips out there, you will not do badly. You try to get Reston to Tyson's, then Tyson's to Falls Church, followed by Falls Church to Clarendon, after which you do Clarendon to Alexandria; Alexandria back to somewhere in Arlington; Arlington to Seven Corners; Seven Corners to McClean...... These are basically mediocre jobs that pay nine to twelve dollars a pop that you can run in ten minutes or less; fifteen at the outside.

What you do is just take what it gives you on X or Regular Lyft. It is not often that I will accept a POOL out there, unless I am sure that I can do some shuffling on it. I do not accept Shared because you can not shuffle it. You do not shuffle, but, still, you can take what it gives you that is reasonable. I will not chase fifteen minutes for anything, but, I will bend my five minute rule for a private address. I can afford to decline more than you as the PRO is not important to me. Despite that, just go with what it takes you and hug the Jippy Yess. Once I get out in Western Fairfax County, I am you typical Uber/Lyft driver: I do not know where I am going. If I run into a jam, I either ask the customer or put it into a different Jippy Yess. I get pee-yo-ed when I have to waste time doing that, but, sometimes you must just bend over and part them.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

FLKeys said:


> No, however if a restaurant 100+ miles away asked me to come eat there I would expect a discount before I went.


That's not a valid analogy.


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## ShibariLover (Mar 3, 2019)

DarkBerry said:


> After I dropped pax off at EWR I sat for 4 hrs at the airport que trying to get Long DF ride back home. No luck! I don't even think it allowed me to use DF at the airport. Then traveling down 95 the chance of getting a long ride request while going 70mph... Nope!


You can't Use the DF From the airport. It will only turn on When it stops saying HEAD TO WAITING LOT. Once that is gone you can use the DF.


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## b_Uber (Feb 7, 2020)

DarkBerry said:


> This is my fear exactly. The customer going off on me for asking for an upfront cash tip. The customer does actually have a point, they're paying $250 and feel that should include everything. This is why many DON'T tip because they feel they're already paying a lot especially for a really long ride. If U/L weren't so greedy and paid us a fair percentage of the fare, it wouldn't be an issue. If its a long trip, it should go up to $1 per mile plus 25 cents per min for time. U/L puts us in a no win situations. It sucks. May have to just start declining these long rides altogether...


sounds like uber USA keeps a bigger share than Uber Australia does.


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## JohnnyBravo836 (Dec 5, 2018)

Pfestus said:


> Just last night, Valentines Day, I was out Uber/Lyfting when a ping came in for a "+45 min" ride. I figured it would be to one of the nearby towns 25 or 30 miles away. When I got with the Pax, she looks like a girl of not much means and she is going 3/4 of the way across the state, 215 miles one way. That is 3 1/2 hours each way. I thought about cancelling, but then thought I have nothing going on the next day and I feel rested, and it would be a good fare. The Pax said she had to get home tonight as she works in the morning and the Greyhound doesn't come thru for another 5 hours. I got the feeling she was not paying for the ride, and I also got the feeling that the people dropping her off were paying, and also that they wanted to get her out of their hair. Everybody seemed on friendly terms, but it just felt weird. Anyway ride went well. Long night. She paid $342.67. I was paid $252.38. 7 hours on the road. Tank and a half of gas. Of course no tip. I don't really regret taking the ride, but will think hard before I accept such a long ride in future.


I drove for three months and then quit a year ago. I just check in occasionally to see if things have changed at all. I can see that they haven't.

Simple arithmetic: this is a 430 mile round trip. If actual depreciation/vehicle expenses are 50 cents a mile (that's about what the government allows for tax write off purposes, and they're not known for generosity), that's an actual cost for doing the trip of $215. Subtract that from $252.38 off the top. Now divide by 7 hours; there's your hourly wage. If we're more generous and assume that it's only, say, 35 cents a mile, that's a mere $150 of cost to the driver off the top, so you're clearing maybe $100 for 7 hours of driving.

I quit because I just couldn't see how it could possibly be worth it to me to do this at .65 a mile. It just wasn't possible to see how I wasn't being exploited, and I decided not to consent to being exploited any further. The very last day I worked I made $312 in about 8 hours. That was _by far_ the very best I ever did over 8 hours; it was a special occasion, and those circumstances were freakishly atypical. More typically, even during the best stretches I could gross _maybe_ $25 an hour, but that was never for more than 4 hours or so, and after expenses, it's hard to be sure how much you're _actually_ making.

For this to be worth doing again, they would have to dramatically increase the rates to passengers, and pass most of that along to drivers. For the most part, I can't help but think that the current business model only works as long as there are always new drivers coming in who are not able to appreciate the actual costs of operating their vehicles. It's not so much that you're earning money -- it's more like while you're earning some money, you're also selling little slivers of your car, bit by bit by bit. Then it becomes almost impossible to tell what portion of it is true earning, and what portion is cashing out some of the equity of your asset.


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## indydriver68 (Mar 13, 2018)

I just refuse any ride that comes in showing 45 min plus or 60 minute plus warning on the request. Mainly they happen at the airport 99% of the time for me anyways. And I have gotten into the habit of asking where are we headed as I’m helping them load luggage into the car and if they say some run 50 to 60 plus miles then just flat out tell them I can’t make that trip and I’ll cancel and Uber will get them a new driver. I tell them sorry but if Uber put the warning on the request like they are supposed to I would have declined. Tell them sorry they got put in the middle of the process of getting a new driver when it should be seamless for them. I always say my wife has to be at work in 90 minutes and can’t leave the kids alone. Which is BS but it sounds legit. 

I used to do them when the surge was a multiplier and if it was close to 2x or higher. I felt I was getting paid the dead mileage as well. But now with flat rate surge you never totally know if there is going to be an adjustment or not. Yes I know of surging on the rider app and the drivers app almost 100% of the time the surge will be adjusted upwards. However, the problem and I had it happen once. The rider requested the ride earlier before the rider surge hit and the request bounced around for a with drivers taking the request and calling and not getting a return fee or whatever then cancelling and other drivers just flat out declining it. I was stupid enough to take it thinking this ought to be a good ride with the surge and adjustment. I realized how wrong I was as I pulled away from the terminal and asked “so what is Uber charging for trip to Bloomington?” And the reply is about $55 bucks which is a normal trip fare. I knew I was f***ed. 

After that I swore never again and haven’t done one since.

This is such an easy fix for Uber I think. On long trips Uber just adds a fair surcharge to the fare for long trips to go to the driver to pay for the deadhead mileage and returning . 
As aexample: 
30 to 45 miles = $30 surcharge
46 to 60 miles = $35 surcharge
62 to 75 miles = $45 surcharge 
Or something similar.

But we all know Uber and this is a pipe dream. They’d want to give the drivers a few bucks like the long pick up fees and keep all the rest


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## TimmyWeekend (Jan 17, 2020)

Do not ask for any cash if you have a long ride. They will report you. Just do your job. Hope for a tip.


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## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

I understand that each market is different but if I may to ask a question...

Why do you take long trips?

In Houston, the rate is $0.6/mile. Any X request that comes with a 45+ notification is rejected by default because it is almost guaranteed to be a money-loser - 25 miles to the airport. Patience is a virtue, some say. However, how is it fun to sit in the staging lot for 3 hours bathing under the unforgiving sun just to make $20 (if lucky enough the passenger is going to the city)?

Out of curiosity, I am interested to know for those who drive a stranger 40, 50... and many more miles to another state, do you think it is a worth of the time? Assuming a passenger is willing to offer another $20, this only helps with refilling the gas tank, if at all (depending on the cost of gasoline in your market) but how about your time? Doesn't your time deserved to be compensated too?

Of course, I only drive part time which offers me the luxury to be selective. My car has poor fuel economy and takes premium only. As always, the more we drive, the more $ we lose. If I see any signs of luggage, I explain to them that getting another ride back from the airport is unlikely. Half of these people are smart enough to tip $10 upfront. However, for those who pretend to be "intermittently mentally handicapped", good luck for another driver. Also, don't even try the "I will take care of you later" scam!

If the trip is a Select / Lux, welcome on board. Almost every of my Select / Lux airport trips was tipped well. In my book, a base rate X = $ loser. A base rate X > 10 miles = driver exploitation. I don't accept X unless under DF / there is surge.


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## DarkBerry (Dec 10, 2019)

I personally like long rides because they get to my goal a lot quicker. For example, if my goal for the day is $200, then I get there a lot quicker with long rides as opposed to short ones. I hate those 1 mile, $3.37 trips uhhh... But we can get exploited by the long trips as well. Especially the really long ones where it’s a basic ride and no tip.

I think the key is calculating whether the long trip is worth it. If it’s a premium ride, then IMO it’s almost always worth it. Today I got a ride to Newark airport (90 miles) and it was an XL so I was paid $145. Well worth it for me and gets me closer to my goal without having to do a lot of the small BS rides. Even without any tip, that’s a good ride for me. Don’t know if they’ll tip or not and really don’t care. Also, if there’s a streak bonus, surge, etc. That MAY make taking a basic long ride worth it. It depends.

I think one of the best tips I got off this thread is just ask them to make it an XL ride. Then there’s nothing for the pax to complain about. You didn’t ask for cash and they’re riding in an XL vehicle. If they say no, kick rocks.


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