# All Surges Not Equal



## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

A friend and I were hanging out at the airport last night waiting for trips and it started to surge. Up until last night, the surge map has always been the same on each of our screens. Last night we noticed the surge map was changing differently for each of us. We were both on XL-only and in the same exact spot. So does Uber now give drivers different surge rates? if so, based on what? We're both over 10k trips, both rated over 4.9. Acceptance and cancellation rates are similar. Both of us started in 2014. There's no distinguishable difference between our accounts, and yet...















When we would go online we would receive the surge amount shown on our screens. They would be different amounts. The surge blobs would sometimes be different shapes. They would refresh at the same time. So it's not a time-delay thing. We also both have iPhones.

Bottom line, some of us are getting higher surge rates than others.


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## pizzaladee (May 23, 2018)

I’ve recently discovered this as well. My friend and I will compare surge. Sometimes it’s off by a few dollars, sometimes it’s the same. His is always the higher of the two. 

I have more trips and a higher rating than he does. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I'm not saying Uber is not playing games. However there are other variables that come into play.

Data plan connection speeds and carriers make a big difference. Phones with a slightly faster connection are going to update quicker. The amount of data ones persons phone is using in the background over another persons phone is going to impact how quick the Uber app refreshes with growing surges. Is your carrier throttling your speed because you are using more than they like? This will also change your app update speed.

The person with the higher surge could simply be getting the updates to the Uber app quicker than the person with the lower surge.


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## pizzaladee (May 23, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> I'm not saying Uber is not playing games. However there are other variables that come into play.
> 
> Data plan connection speeds and carriers make a big difference. Phones with a slightly faster connection are going to update quicker. The amount of data ones persons phone is using in the background over another persons phone is going to impact how quick the Uber app refreshes with growing surges. Is your carrier throttling your speed because you are using more than they like? This will also change your app update speed.
> 
> The person with the higher surge could simply be getting the updates to the Uber app quicker than the person with the lower surge.


I thought that as well, but our surge updates at the same time. Sometimes it will match, other times his goes up much higher than mine.


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

FLKeys said:


> I'm not saying Uber is not playing games. However there are other variables that come into play.
> 
> Data plan connection speeds and carriers make a big difference. Phones with a slightly faster connection are going to update quicker. The amount of data ones persons phone is using in the background over another persons phone is going to impact how quick the Uber app refreshes with growing surges. Is your carrier throttling your speed because you are using more than they like? This will also change your app update speed.
> 
> The person with the higher surge could simply be getting the updates to the Uber app quicker than the person with the lower surge.


This might explain a delay for a few seconds, but not a total difference between maps over the course of 20 minutes. Our maps and amounts never matched.

I don't think it's a coincidence this started happening right when Uber cut off API access to surge data. There's no way to see the multiplier anymore, maps are different among drivers, and flat rates are different. They're doing something behind the scenes banking on drivers not noticing. As if that's ever been the case - they always assume we're oblivious idiots.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I think most surges are put out to manipulate drivers into moving to where Uber wants them to be. Perhaps the flat dollar amounts are different because they recognize different drivers will move for different dollar amounts so they are trying to get drivers to move for the cheapest they can.

Personally I will only move for a sticky surge if the amount is worth it for the distance I have to drive to get to it and then back to where I want to be. Needless to say I don't get many sticky surges. Generally in my area if it is not at least $6.00 I'm not moving.

Also when things are busy in a certain area I have noticed there is never a surge, just that stupid notice that there are more requests than usual in this area.

I think both companies are concentrating on market share so charging the PAX a surge is not in their best interest. Of course this will vary by market. In my market the only time I have ever seen a Lyft Surge was on New Years Eve, otherwise Lyft never surges. When Uber surges, people stop using it and start using Lyft. I know this because I when there is a Uber Surge in my area I start getting more Lyft requests and I will leave the Uber app up and running while doing Lyft rides. I rarely if ever get a request on Uber while there is an active surge on the screen but will do several Lyft rides during that time. When the Uber surge ends, the Uber request will start coming through and the Lyft requests slow down.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

FLKeys said:


> I think most surges are put out to manipulate drivers into moving to where Uber wants them to be. Perhaps the flat dollar amounts are different because they recognize different drivers will move for different dollar amounts so they are trying to get drivers to move for the cheapest they can.
> 
> Personally I will only move for a sticky surge if the amount is worth it for the distance I have to drive to get to it and then back to where I want to be. Needless to say I don't get many sticky surges. Generally in my area if it is not at least $6.00 I'm not moving.
> 
> ...


Manipulate drivers to where Uber wants them, that is the answer. They know what you will take for pings, where you will move for surge. Good reply @FLKeys


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## Bartima (Jun 30, 2019)

We have been comparing the surge amounts with 4 drivers in Boston last 3 nights. One of us gets double surge all night. Trying to figure out why. Like Downtown Boston is $6.5 for all 3, but one is $13-14. Does this mean personal surge from now on?


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## Mr. Yuck (Jul 31, 2017)

Do you have similar pro ratings?


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> I think most surges are put out to manipulate drivers into moving to where Uber wants them to be. Perhaps the flat dollar amounts are different because they recognize different drivers will move for different dollar amounts so they are trying to get drivers to move for the cheapest they can.
> 
> Personally I will only move for a sticky surge if the amount is worth it for the distance I have to drive to get to it and then back to where I want to be. Needless to say I don't get many sticky surges. Generally in my area if it is not at least $6.00 I'm not moving.
> 
> ...


The vast majority of surges are not seen by the drivers but are charged to the paxoles. Charging the paxoles a surge IS in their best interest and they do it constantly without passing on the surge amount to drivers. Just because it doesn't say surge doesn't mean they haven't incorporated a surge amount into the paxoles charge.....start looking at the amounts people are charged during obvious surge times (late night, rush hours, events, etc.). Again, paxoles ARE being charged surge but it is not as transparent now as they can just charge a higher rate to paxoles without breaking it down.


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## Bartima (Jun 30, 2019)

2 is Gold, one Platinum, one Diamond. The Plat one is getting the higher rates. (Diamond is a higher tier.)


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

People who expect Uber to be fair and honest are only setting themselves up for instant disappointment.

I know this company is built on the premise of hosing its "driver partners" every minute of the day. As long as I'm turning a meaningful profit after expenses, that's all I care about. Once that fact ceases to be, I'll be logging off the app for good and lining up a W-2 job somewhere else.


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## jgiun1 (Oct 16, 2017)

I was in town destination filter on for airport....a female friend driver pulled behind me, amd both had filters on....she got three total pings, two from Uber (declined both) and one Lyft (hug end apartment)......I got none....and I was there for 15 minutes


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

nouberipo said:


> The vast majority of surges are not seen by the drivers but are charged to the paxoles. Charging the paxoles a surge IS in their best interest and they do it constantly without passing on the surge amount to drivers. Just because it doesn't say surge doesn't mean they haven't incorporated a surge amount into the paxoles charge.....start looking at the amounts people are charged during obvious surge times (late night, rush hours, events, etc.). Again, paxoles ARE being charged surge but it is not as transparent now as they can just charge a higher rate to paxoles without breaking it down.


I've been paid surge when no flat surge was shown. It does surge before it shows on the map, maybe 1-2 min. But if the rider pays a multiple and no flat surge is shown, they will add some to your total.



rkozy said:


> People who expect Uber to be fair and honest are only setting themselves up for instant disappointment.
> 
> I know this company is built on the premise of hosing its "driver partners" every minute of the day. As long as I'm turning a meaningful profit after expenses, that's all I care about. Once that fact ceases to be, I'll be logging off the app for good and lining up a W-2 job somewhere else.


Every system they've ever had could be gamed. You just gotta play the game in your favor. With the new "flat surge," you get a multiple if they go far enough - but uber takes 45%.

If you take a flat surge after it pops, Uber eats the cost. Always collect your surge bank and even the score. On this ride, I was in an $18 surge zone and took a LyftXL surge instead. When I dropped them off on the other side of town I took the next UberXL ping. Uber ate $9 and I collected more than the rider paid.


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