# Amazon -- YOU'RE WASTING YOUR MONEY!



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

I show up for my 12-2 route today (Prime Now), and they send me a 1-hour instead of a route, and as if that wasn't bad enough, the 1-hour was already at risk of being late. I have 24 minutes to deliver it (because another driver sat on it for too long before it got re-assigned to me), and it's *at least *a 30-minute drive from the warehouse + 2 major protests going on in SF this weekend.

After I leave the warehouse with the late 1-hour, i'm sitting in downtown traffic and the customer cancels, and they immediately assign me another 1-hour before I even have a chance to go back to the warehouse. I immediately called support to let them know they need to re-assign the second one because it was going to be really really late if I ended up delivering.

At this point, it's over an hour into my block and I haven't completed a single delivery; there were more routes than drivers available for the route drop, and they should be assigning 1-hours WITH routes when it's that close to the route drop so they're utilizing drivers more.

I ended up getting another 1-hour when I got back to the warehouse, and it was going into the heart of the protest, and the customer also ended up cancelling because there was no way for me to get to him. There wasn't enough time for them to send me anymore deliveries, and they got zero out of me because of their childish power trip.

Also, for those of you that work out Prime Now warehouses and they're remotely assigning your routes -- there are two divisions: one for the routes, and one for the 1-hours, and both of those divisions are fighting each other for drivers to do what they need to assign, but neither of those divisions communicate with each other.


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Something is definitely messed up. We also have this remote assignment going on. Last week, I had eight regular two hour blocks that should have been routes. I got a route on three of them. But the rest I was stuck on one hours. And here that means you will be paid at $18 per hour because they take about the first $5 per hour in tips. So two one hours in a 2 hour block almost always pays $36 - you won't see the benefit of any of the tips.

This makes an already bad situation worse because besides all the other stuff going on it's getting harder to get regular routes even on a regular route scheduled block time.

And it's really hard now if you have continuous blocks to stay on a route. They'll have you hopping busy with one hours so it's hard to get back at the right time window for a route. There seems to be a push now to keep you going on one hours to the extent it's harder to get on routes.

Before this remote assignment started, it wasn't like this.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

grams777 I agree, before Seattle took over, I always took 1-hours with a route, there wasn't this bullshit 1-hour assignments 2 minutes before the route drop.

I just don't understand their logic of sending me out with a 1-hour when they don't even have enough drivers to take the routes; instead of risking a 1-hour being late, they'd rather make an entire route late assuming that route made it out at all.

they're costing me money by screwing me over on routes, but they're costing themselves even more by using more drivers for 1-hours than routes.


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

soupergloo said:


> grams777 I agree, before Seattle took over, I always took 1-hours with a route, there wasn't this bullshit 1-hour assignments 2 minutes before the route drop.
> 
> I just don't understand their logic of sending me out with a 1-hour when they don't even have enough drivers to take the routes; instead of risking a 1-hour being late, they'd rather make an entire route late assuming that route made it out at all.
> 
> they're costing me money by screwing me over on routes, but they're costing themselves even more by using more drivers for 1-hours than routes.


Saw the same thing. I was scheduled for 2 hour blocks. They sent me on one hours. I'd come back to the warehouse and still see a bunch of carts still left from the routes 30 minutes after the hour not yet assigned with no drivers there.

And so these remote geniuses assigned me one stop of three packages from one of the two hour routes while there were still like 4 whole routes untouched. And the stop was only 10 minutes away. I had plenty of time to at least do 3/4 if not a full easy route. Then I get back and they give me a one hour. Craziest thing I've seen.


----------



## Dakota2009 (Oct 19, 2016)

soupergloo said:


> I show up for my 12-2 route today (Prime Now), and they send me a 1-hour instead of a route, and as if that wasn't bad enough, the 1-hour was already at risk of being late. I have 24 minutes to deliver it (because another driver sat on it for too long before it got re-assigned to me), and it's *at least *a 30-minute drive from the warehouse + 2 major protests going on in SF this weekend.
> 
> After I leave the warehouse with the late 1-hour, i'm sitting in downtown traffic and the customer cancels, and they immediately assign me another 1-hour before I even have a chance to go back to the warehouse. I immediately called support to let them know they need to re-assign the second one because it was going to be really really late if I ended up delivering.
> 
> ...





grams777 said:


> Saw the same thing. I was scheduled for 2 hour blocks. They sent me on one hours. I'd come back to the warehouse and still see a bunch of carts still left from the routes 30 minutes after the hour not yet assigned with no drivers there.
> 
> And so these remote geniuses assigned me one stop of three packages from one of the two hour routes while there were still like 4 whole routes untouched. And the stop was only 10 minutes away. I had plenty of time to at least do 3/4 if not a full easy route. Then I get back and they give me a one hour. Craziest thing I've seen.


I am wondering was support helpful in your case? Or will you receive one of their famous emails?


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

Dakota2009 said:


> I am wondering was support helpful in your case? Or will you receive one of their famous emails?


i'm gonna let you in on a little secret, if you're taking a 1-hour and you're going to be late on it, if you scan it into your phone 21 minutes or later after the order has been placed, being late on the delivery won't count against you; you shouldn't even get an e-mail regardless if you call support.

I won't get the email because 2 out of 3 of my customers actually cancelled (and that won't ever count against you), and the other one got re-assigned after I called support.

you got emails and then eventually deactivated because you were late on multiple deliveries that were part of your route in just one block that you worked all week.


----------



## UberPasco (Oct 18, 2015)

grams777 said:


> Saw the same thing. I was scheduled for 2 hour blocks. They sent me on one hours. I'd come back to the warehouse and still see a bunch of carts still left from the routes 30 minutes after the hour not yet assigned with no drivers there.
> 
> And so these remote geniuses assigned me one stop of three packages from one of the two hour routes while there were still like 4 whole routes untouched. And the stop was only 10 minutes away. I had plenty of time to at least do 3/4 if not a full easy route. Then I get back and they give me a one hour. Craziest thing I've seen.


Folks, it just went live on Wed, FCOL! They have already started making adjustments. One thing is, the remotes are dropping more blocks because they are relying on a computer screen. They are going to need to incorporate local knowledge into the assignments (events, weather,etc) which is where the WH had a distinct advantage when stuff went sideways.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

UberPasco said:


> Folks, it just went live on Wed, FCOL


lol had to look up FCOL

they've been dispatching remotely over here for almost 3 months, and should definitely have their shit together by now.


----------



## UberPasco (Oct 18, 2015)

soupergloo said:


> lol had to look up FCOL
> 
> they've been dispatching remotely over here for almost 3 months, and should definitely have their shit together by now.


Apparently they were testing 3 different tweaks of this system and decided to launch on this one. (!!!!) You're right after 3 months.....
So far one positive change that I have seen is the 1/2 hr starts (i.e 11:30 - 1:30). Both that I have done have been wait for a 1 hr, then if nothing before the top of the hr, a 60 min route. BUT after they assigned my route today a 12-2 guy got a 1 hr, just like you did. LOL. So it isn't just Seattle, FL (Orlando dispatch) has to deal with the same thing.


----------



## tofu97 (Apr 8, 2017)

It happened to me today. I had a 2 hour block (8pm-10pm). Signed in 10 minutes earlier, waited and waited. They assigned me some route starting from remote place, then immediately retracted it, assigned it again and retracted it again. So I waited like 40 minutes with 5 unassigned routes sitting in front of me. Finally they decided to give me a 1-hour delivery. Went out and came back after 9pm. The last route is still in the house although assigned to some driver. It finally got out of the station at 9:15pm. I think some late deliveries were gonna happen. Then I did another 2 1-hour deliveries to end my 2 hour block.


----------



## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

The really crappy part is that so much of this is going to come back on the drivers, who, it appears, did absolutely nothing wrong. If Amazon can't get their crap together to fix the problems in their systems, they certainly aren't going to do much in the way of post-game analysis to see what's going wrong. They'll just fire drivers and find some more.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

happened again today, routes leftover, but they sent me a 1-hour instead that was literally going 2 minutes away from the warehouse.

so I scanned a route in that hadn't been assigned yet, and took it with my 1-hour.


----------



## marsmaple (Apr 23, 2017)

You have to think that the dispatchers know the regular drivers by name by now since they see the same names almost daily. Dispatchers are probably assigned to coordinate in designated regions, so even if they've removed the ability for warehouse employees to assign routes, favoritism still exists. The consequence of this is that the rest of the drivers get shafted and have a higher chance of being deactivated. 

Dispatchers have too much power, plain and simple.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

marsmaple said:


> You have to think that the dispatchers know the regular drivers by name by now since they see the same names almost daily. Dispatchers are probably assigned to coordinate in designated regions, so even if they've removed the ability for warehouse employees to assign routes, favoritism still exists. The consequence of this is that the rest of the drivers get shafted and have a higher chance of being deactivated.
> 
> Dispatchers have too much power, plain and simple.


those dispatchers don't have the power to deactivate. when they first started this nonsense, I stood next to the warehouse manager and watched him "chat" with the remote dispatcher telling them to deactivate my ass (per my request) for refusing to take a 1-hour instead of a route. I was then sent home and was told I'd be deactivated, which obviously never happened. I got two emails the next day; 1 about my pay being adjusted for not being available to work, and another letting me know I am not allowed to choose my route or deliveries.


----------



## marsmaple (Apr 23, 2017)

They can't deactivate you but they can create conditions in which you are more likely to get dinged for delivering late by sending you late pick ups without allowing it to be reassigned (the dispatcher ultimately has the decision of whether to grant the reassignment). They can also assign routes to you that are far away from the station on purpose, knowing full well that you have scheduled back-to-back blocks. Alternatively I've experienced times when I was one of the first drivers to arrive and check in at the warehouse and was not assigned any routes. 

All of these tricks and annoyances are at the dispatcher' s disposal, and unfortunately there's nothing us drivers can do about it.


----------



## tofu97 (Apr 8, 2017)

Most of those assignments are obvious automated. The system may need human intervention when there are some conflicts or the machine can't figure out right person to assign. The algorithm is obviously week and not quite adaptive. I blame Amazon software engineers on the performance.


----------



## secretlurker (Jul 31, 2017)

Great hypotheses, but inevitably, all inaccurate.


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

With this remote routing, the routes are still getting worse here. It's hard to even get 5 stops in a normal 2 hour block. And the stops are getting scattered apart - more driving with fewer stops. Some routes make no sense at all - a package here and there all over the city.

Over about 8 x normal 2 hour blocks, it's been averaging about 1.5 stops per hour driving 25 miles each hour. It's not just one hours either. They'll just as easily give you only 1 or 2 stops from a regular 2 hour window. Half the blocks are paying the minimum $18 per hour. The rest range from 22-25.

I'm not sure of the strategy. But with the long miles for so few stops it's turning into an Uber like advance of money for wear on your car. Complaining to about 6 different people working at the warehouse and support does nothing. They could care less.

The positive side is that you can get close to 8 hours a day now here just picking up blocks on Prime now that sit there for at least several minutes. No bots really needed. The downside is you'll be driving your car almost non stop back and forth with 1 or 2 packages each hour for $18 (we are about a $4 per hour tip siphon to Amazon city).


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

grams777 said:


> With this remote routing, the routes are still getting worse here. It's hard to even get 5 stops in a normal 2 hour block. And the stops are getting scattered apart - more driving with fewer stops. Some routes make no sense at all - a package here and there all over the city.
> 
> Over about 8 x normal 2 hour blocks, it's been averaging about 1.5 stops per hour driving 25 miles each hour. It's not just one hours either. They'll just as easily give you only 1 or 2 stops from a regular 2 hour window. Half the blocks are paying the minimum $18 per hour. The rest range from 22-25.
> 
> ...


same thing is going on in SF! yesterday I had a route with only 4 stops, going as far as 25 miles one way heading South and all 4 stops were in different cities! I found a few other drivers with equally ****ed up routes and we traded our stops to make more sense for each of our routes.


----------



## kmatt (Apr 25, 2016)

soupergloo said:


> same thing is going on in SF! yesterday I had a route with only 4 stops, going as far as 25 miles one way heading South and all 4 stops were in different cities! I found a few other drivers with equally &%[email protected]!*ed up routes and we traded our stops to make more sense for each of our routes.


It's incredible how stupid this new system is sometimes. I took one two hour delivery on my two hour route the other day. Two other drivers had routes going to the exact same neighborhood/area.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

kmatt said:


> Two other drivers had routes going to the exact same neighborhood/area.


they've had me go to the exact same address as another driver on more than one occasion before.

shockingly -- today they actually assigned me a route with a 1-hour for my 8 AM route, hopefully the trend continues.


----------



## champ.49er (Aug 4, 2014)

soupergloo said:


> happened again today, routes leftover, but they sent me a 1-hour instead that was literally going 2 minutes away from the warehouse.
> 
> so I scanned a route in that hadn't been assigned yet, and took it with my 1-hour.


How does one scan a route that hasn't been assigned yet?



soupergloo said:


> same thing is going on in SF! yesterday I had a route with only 4 stops, going as far as 25 miles one way heading South and all 4 stops were in different cities! I found a few other drivers with equally &%[email protected]!*ed up routes and we traded our stops to make more sense for each of our routes.


Another question - how do you trade stops with another driver? It seems like once I've been assigned, I don't see any options to change the route.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

champ.49er said:


> Another question - how do you trade stops with another driver? It seems like once I've been assigned, I don't see any options to change the route.


you have to scan the entire route they assign to you first & "swipe to finish" and then the person you want to trade with will be able to scan it in.


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

It's really getting bad here now. 1 hours are commonly being assigned to 2 - 4 hour block drivers. They are also not combined anymore with a route. They go by themselves. They can happen any time even near the route start times: 9:56, 10:04, 9:48 for example. You can also be pinged with one even when you are 15 minutes away after finishing another route.

In a typical 2 hour block start, there will be maybe 20 drivers at the warehouse with a 2 - 4 hour block. 10 will get a route. 5 will get a single one hour stop only. 5 will get nothing and wait for a one hour. You'll be lucky to get a block half the time.

Also the routes you do get are far away and nearly impossible to make it back for the next route. There are some carts that have several nearby stops with time to get back, but those are almost never assigned to the drivers I know. They are usually still there when I leave.

A couple times when I didn't have a route, I scanned in one of those 'preferred easy routes' and just did it. After doing those, I'm pretty sure there's some preference system. I don't ever remember doing such reasonably timed and located routes otherwise.

The problem with just taking one is that every once in awhile when you do that they'll also send you a one hour that you were actually assigned which may be unrelated.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

grams777 said:


> A couple times when I didn't have a route, I scanned in one of those 'preferred easy routes' and just did it. The problem is every once in awhile when you do that they'll also send you a one hour that you were actually assigned which may be unrelated.


be careful when doing that, they're threatening to deactivate drivers for scanning routes that weren't assigned to them over here.


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

soupergloo said:


> be careful when doing that, they're threatening to deactivate drivers for scanning routes that weren't assigned to them over here.


It's hard now anyway because they'll often force a different one hour on you also. It's interesting how those easy routes seem to never get assigned to me normally though. Deactivation isn't so much of a worry anyway when you're stuck at $18 an hour most of the day with one hours.

Quite a few drivers here go the whole day like that at $18 for one hours only even on 2-4 hour blocks.

With the amazon tip holdback, you never see any tips on one hours here. Always $18/hr.

Here's a real life example. You're at the warehouse for a 2 hour block, checked in around 10-15 minutes prior (doesn't really matter anymore if one hour before or 5 minutes after) - you get assigned this one hour: 40 miles and 60 minutes round trip travel time. Your pay: $18 = .45 per mile assuming $0 per hour for time.

This happens to you about half of your blocks. Although, the distances probably average about half that.

Now here's the kicker. There's a two hour route unassigned just sitting there that can easily be done on the way back with plenty of time to spare. The one hour will get there just as fast. The route is right by the travel path.

Before the days of the remote assignment, the warehouse would simply combine them both. Now, they will use two drivers for the same thing.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

grams777 said:


> Something is definitely messed up. We also have this remote assignment going on. Last week, I had eight regular two hour blocks that should have been routes. I got a route on three of them. But the rest I was stuck on one hours. And here that means you will be paid at $18 per hour because they take about the first $5 per hour in tips. So two one hours in a 2 hour block almost always pays $36 - you won't see the benefit of any of the tips.
> 
> This makes an already bad situation worse because besides all the other stuff going on it's getting harder to get regular routes even on a regular route scheduled block time.
> 
> ...


This.
This is what Happens
When the Captain of a ship
Has never worked in the Engine Room.

Management should have to work their way up.
To understand the positions which they manage.


----------



## secretlurker (Jul 31, 2017)

One hours with routes is coming, be careful what you wish for. Yes, deactivation with taking an unassigned route is probable. The assigning you see is by design, those short routes are for drivers that check in the next half hour. The rest are for these types of one hours. Everything is generated except the assignments. So, tis why they threaten deactivation.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

secretlurker said:


> One hours with routes is coming, be careful what you wish for. Yes, deactivation with taking an unassigned route is probable. The assigning you see is by design, those short routes are for drivers that check in the next half hour. The rest are for these types of one hours. Everything is generated except the assignments. So, tis why they threaten deactivation.


personally I think it's ****ing stupid; let's threaten to deactivate them for doing deliveries, but let's also deactivate them for not doing deliveries and call it "not being available to work during your block."


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Another twist here is they make the drivers stand around for up to 15-20 minutes into the block while there are still about 5 routes unassigned sitting there. Apparently they're making divers wait while they see if some one hours drop so they can give those out first.

Only as a last resort as time passes and the route gets tight will they give up those last routes. So now, by burning off every possible minute, almost every driver with a route has little chance to be back on time for another one.

There seems to be some renewed excitement by Amazon to have everyone drop everything and bow down to the one hours. Maybe they like that they get the $8 delivery fee plus the tips for themselves on them. That's only $5 left they pay the driver out of their pocket.

It looks like it takes twice as many drivers to do it this way though.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

grams777 said:


> Another twist here is they make the drivers stand around for up to 15-20 minutes into the block while there are still about 5 routes unassigned sitting there. Apparently they're making divers wait while they see if some one hours drop so they can give those out first.
> 
> Only as a last resort as time passes and the route gets tight will they give up those last routes. So now, by burning off every possible minute, almost every driver with a route has little chance to be back on time for another one.


yes, exactly! this was why I started taking unassigned routes because i'd wait 30-45 minutes into the delivery block with nothing assigned to me even though there were clearly leftover routes and Amazon would end up assigning it to me eventually any way giving me less than an hour and a half to do a full route. i've since stopped though after threatening emails started going out.

the other morning, a driver picked up a 9:30-11 AM shift and Amazon had a leftover 8-10 AM route that ended up getting assigned to him; he was late on every single delivery at no fault of his own, but he was easily risking deactivation because of it.


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

On one of my recent one hour during a 2 hour block foolishness trips, I took about a 10 minute break at a nearby coffee shop with destination filters on Uber and Lyft. I got an $11 ride part of the way back.

I wouldn't do this all the time. Just when it's relatively far away and you would still be back in time for routes if there is one. I've noticed you need to be able to wait around a little for a better chance at the DF kicking in. Just hurrying back with it on seems to not work very well. Don't be selective either - take X / Xl / Lyft or whatever. There's no time to wait just for the premium XL / Select / Plus only.

That's not too bad for the work really. 1 flex stop, a coffee break, and a DF trip for almost $50 in 2 hours. Around here you need to have at least a 5-6 stop route to beat that with far more work and driving.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

grams777 said:


> On one of my recent one hour during a 2 hour block foolishness trips, I took about a 10 minute break at a nearby coffee shop with destination filters on Uber and Lyft. I got an $11 ride part of the way back.
> 
> I wouldn't do this all the time. Just when it's relatively far away and you would still be back in time for routes if there is one. I've noticed you need to be able to wait around a little for a better chance at the DF kicking in. Just hurrying back with it on seems to not work very well. Don't be selective either - take X / Xl / Lyft or whatever. There's no time to wait just for the premium XL / Select / Plus only.
> 
> That's not too bad for the work really. 1 flex stop, a coffee break, and a DF trip for almost $50 in 2 hours. Around here you need to have at least a 5-6 stop route to beat that with far more work and driving.


lol, but what if Amazon would have sent you something during your ride? that would be my fear.


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

soupergloo said:


> lol, but what if Amazon would have sent you something during your ride? that would be my fear.


I'll get there when I get there. The delays involved aren't more than about 5 /10 minutes once you have the extra ride.

Also, the situations where this is best is like when you started the 2 hour block, and got a one hour. Now you drop it off, you're about 20+ minutes away and routes don't start for another hour. It's possible you'd get pinged that far at that time for another one hour. But it's unlikely. Even so, the time difference won't really matter once you have a ride on destination filter. Much of time time the assignments aren't even ready for awhile.

I wouldn't do it, say, dropping off something at 1:40 being within 20 minutes of the warehouse.

I'm not the only one...I got the advice from someone else doing it. Lol

At our location, nobody seems to know what's going on. It's not uncommon to see packages and routes sit there for 15-30 minutes after assignment before the driver shows up - even when there are 5 drivers on the clock waiting right there.

You couldn't do this before the remote assignment crap started because the site was on top of who was getting what when. Then again you didn't get solo one hours on regular blocks like now either so it wasn't an issue.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

grams777 said:


> I'll get there when I get there. The delays involved aren't more than about 5 /10 minutes once you have the extra ride.
> 
> Also, the situations where this is best is like when you started the 2 hour block, and got a one hour. Now you drop it off, you're about 20+ minutes away and routes don't start for another hour. It's possible you'd get pinged that far at that time for another one hour. But it's unlikely. Even so, the time difference won't really matter once you have a ride on destination filter. Much of time time the assignments aren't even ready for awhile.
> 
> ...


oooh gotcha, the only time I tried double dipping was during an Amazon restaurant block while also taking Uber Eats requests; most stressful 2 hours of my life because both platforms were really busy haha.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

just wanted to update this thread to let Amazon know whatever they’re “testing” at UCA1 is not working.

they released the 8 hour day/40 hour week cap this week even though it’s been the slowest week i’ve seen in a while; probably partly because they increased the minimum to $35 for Prime Now orders and our warehouse is going through major construction, so they’re also capping orders. so they literally have 5-10 drivers every block sitting for 2 hours not doing any deliveries and getting paid (myself included).

in addition, they’ve learned to incorporate 1-hours with routes, but they’re doing it ALL WRONG. the only way a 1-hour can be delivered on time with a route is if it’s actually somewhat near that route, but instead, they’re assigning 1-hour deliveries going North of SF with routes that are going South of SF; shit literally makes no sense.

things continue to go from bad to worse


----------



## damphoose (Jul 6, 2017)

This why you never post "Amazon you're wasting" money. Because Amazon is playing the long game. The 1-hours incorporated into routes means they problem just increased profits by 30%. So they can afford to have sitting drivers while they work out the kinks. Know in the end you will be doing more work for less money and wonder what happened.

I remember when "Fresh" first started. They would send on "routes" just to see how long it takes with no deliveries. I said NO deliveries. And we got paid. They did that for like 3-4 months. Its seemed like a crazy waste of money. But Amazon though...


----------



## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

I think this gig is now far too overglorified for what it is and pays. It will likely get worse as Amazon is always trying to shave shipping costs any way it can.

Just yesterday, I drove rideshare during morning rush hour and pulled in $170 net after commission in 5 hours (5-10 am).

What was interesting was that one of the rides went to a distant area where I’ve done 2 hour (so called) flex routes - just to get to the starting point. I netted $65 for the one hour trip on Lyft Plus (no PT even). And that was only one way.

I could have got a trip back if I waited about an hour or so and did locals for a regular lyft rates until I got one going back - at say another $40 or so. But I was done and headed home since rush hours were about over. I’ve done this before in this area and can net about $100 when it happens. It’s over $120 sometimes if I do a few locals at X rates while I wait for a return trip.

So in this case, a flex route would have paid me perhaps $50-60 for 2-3 hours to drive 6 stops in one of the far parts of their service area. It’s actually about 3 hours because you’ll have to drive your way back after the block is over. They’ll leave you with no time at the end of the block.

Yet if I do a simple XL / Plus I net $65 for one hour and one stop one way. If I wait and do some locals until the return trip is paid, it’s about $120 for 2 hours or so. $100 without doing a few locals first.

The flex pay isn’t what it once was. And adding in the miles driven and dead time also works against it and may not be as great as it seems.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

damphoose there's a way for them to incorporate the 1-hours into routes that make sense, but they're not doing it that way, which is causing drivers to be late on deliveries, *which costs them money. *all while they have drivers sitting at the warehouse not doing shit that they're also paying.

grams777 I totally agree .. I don't even care about taking routes anymore because the money has gotten so bad, and the work and risk just aren't worth the hourly anymore.


----------



## rozz (Sep 7, 2016)

soupergloo said:


> damphoose there's a way for them to incorporate the 1-hours into routes that make sense, but they're not doing it that way, which is causing drivers to be late on deliveries, *which costs them money. *all while they have drivers sitting at the warehouse not doing shit that they're also paying.
> 
> grams777 I totally agree .. I don't even care about taking routes anymore because the money has gotten so bad, and the work and risk just aren't worth the hourly anymore.


Supergloo, it seems like the changes are not specific to your warehouse. It is probably systemic because they hire BRAINDEAD dispatchers who have no knowledge of the city and real world situations. In addition to your aforementioned gripes, dispatch does not take into account the sometimes insane number of packages one has to load for large orders. I doubt there is growth for Prime Now given how they run things right now. Customers, myself included, DO NOT LIKE THE CHANGE. If anything they waste more now than ever before and driver satisfaction is way down. AMAZON YOU DO NOT WANT ANGRY DRIVERS BECAUSE THE NEXT BATCH THAT YOU HIRE WILL BE TWICE AS BAD.

Before the warehouse dispatchers actually knew us and had an interest in making our routes tolerable. We are all driving twice as much now and at times have to speed because dispatchers would rather deal with route problems after the fact than take care to make good routes. Most people will quit because of the ridiculous routes and new bs that they introduce with every change. Bring back some common sense or else it'll just turn into a water delivery service.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

rozz couldn't agree more! the fact that no one at the warehouse has the power to do anything anymore is absurd .. whose bright idea was it to give all of the decision making to some minimum wage moron working remotely from God knows where?!

almost all of the veteran drivers have quit Flex, or gotten deactivated at my warehouse and the flood of new drivers that they're going to hire soon is gonna be a shit show.

I still don't understand why they haven't had any in-person driver feedback sessions - all of the other platforms do it. And I know they're losing money on this extension of Prime, but continue to make bad decisions.


----------



## rozz (Sep 7, 2016)

soupergloo said:


> almost all of the veteran drivers have quit Flex, or gotten deactivated at my warehouse and the flood of new drivers that they're going to hire soon is gonna be a shit show.


No one covers as many different areas and apartments as a single Flex driver, not even UPS, Fedex or postal drivers. While the job itself is easy it helps that we have this extensive knowledge especially at night or when we have a shitload of packages. I have had customers complain to me that new drivers don't read instructions and don't even bother to reach their apartments. The veteran drivers (most of whom are deactivated) keep the machine churning without many problems. They actually work with the warehouse and "support" to resolve problems instead of just dropping everything as it so happens with new drivers. Amazon does not care about driver quality and is devaluing the service. With Prime Now it's not just a numbers game, hence why you're seeing tips go down down down. Every action of every driver affects another.


----------



## damphoose (Jul 6, 2017)

soupergloo said:


> damphoose there's a way for them to incorporate the 1-hours into routes that make sense, but they're not doing it that way, which is causing drivers to be late on deliveries, *which costs them money. *all while they have drivers sitting at the warehouse not doing shit that they're also paying..


I'm not disagreeing with you on that. What I am saying is Amazon will figure it out. They have the size, time, and money to. Every thing they do when they start off slow and stumble. Then after a while the established players are going out of business because Amazon dominated.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

damphoose said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you on that. What I am saying is Amazon will figure it out. They have the size, time, and money to. Every thing they do when they start off slow and stumble. Then after a while the established players are going out of business because Amazon dominated.


the thing is, they're going backwards. we *always* used to take 1-hours with routes before Amazon started handling things remotely and the dispatcher at the warehouse would have control over giving it to someone that was actually able to do it on their route. now we have someone who isn't at the warehouse (isn't even in California!) trying to make decisions by looking at a map and assuming whatever they're putting together will work. just because something looks close together on a map, doesn't mean it is; it could take FOREVER to get across the city with traffic to do a 1-hour on top of a ****ed up route they put together.

never ever would drivers just be sitting around not doing anything. currently, they're sending the same driver out with multiple trips back/forth with 1-hours all while there are drivers that have been sitting at the warehouse that haven't done a single delivery.

just because they have the money and resources to "test" this shit out doesn't mean they should. they're losing money and are messing with our money at the same time. not to mention, they've had a year to figure this shit out at UCA1 and even longer at other warehouses.


----------



## rozz (Sep 7, 2016)

soupergloo said:


> the thing is, they're going backwards. we *always* used to take 1-hours with routes before Amazon started handling things remotely and the dispatcher at the warehouse would have control over giving it to someone that was actually able to do it on their route. now we have someone who isn't at the warehouse (isn't even in California!) trying to make decisions by looking at a map and assuming whatever they're putting together will work. just because something looks close together on a map, doesn't mean it is; it could take FOREVER to get across the city with traffic to do a 1-hour on top of a &%[email protected]!*ed up route they put together.
> 
> never ever would drivers just be sitting around not doing anything. currently, they're sending the same driver out with multiple trips back/forth with 1-hours all while there are drivers that have been sitting at the warehouse that haven't done a single delivery.
> 
> just because they have the money and resources to "test" this shit out doesn't mean they should. they're losing money and are messing with our money at the same time. not to mention, they've had a year to figure this shit out at UCA1 and even longer at other warehouses.


I was about to write this exact same post. Yes, you have all the time in the world to test shit and stir shit up a bit. That's all part of growing and learning as a company but what they're doing is regressing from a method that was already working. Fine if you have remote dispatchers to equalize the distribution and eliminate favoritism and free up time for the warehouse workers. But what bugs the shit out of everyone is they're creating more problems than they are solving. All routes are long by default now, meaning a lot of them are in a line so you're covering a wide area with a lot of hopping off different freeways and major backed up intersections. They need to go back to clustering so that drivers can at least take back roads to avoid traffic.

I see a lot of drivers getting the EXACT SAME ROUTE. Now everyone is taking the full 2 hours to complete their routes so Amazon WASTES MORE MONEY by having to hire people for one hours, but they don't USE THEM. They just pluck whatever name out of a hat and shoot them a route. That is not logistics, it's plain madness.


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

rozz said:


> All routes are long by default now, meaning a lot of them are in a line so you're covering a wide area with a lot of hopping off different freeways and major backed up intersections. They need to go back to clustering so that drivers can at least take back roads to avoid traffic.


I really don't understand this!!! How do they not realize it's more beneficial for them to give drivers more stops in a more condensed area than to spread them all over the effing place with less stops! I get they want to keep us busy for the full 2 hours, but I guarantee they're causing drivers to be late on more deliveries than before.


----------



## cvflexer (Apr 27, 2017)

So you guys are Logistics and Corporate experts who just drive on the side for research purposes?


----------



## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

cvflexer said:


> So you guys are Logistics and Corporate experts who just drive on the side for research purposes?


so we have to be research experts to have an opinion on how ****ed up Flex has become?


----------



## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

soupergloo said:


> I show up for my 12-2 route today (Prime Now), and they send me a 1-hour instead of a route, and as if that wasn't bad enough, the 1-hour was already at risk of being late. I have 24 minutes to deliver it (because another driver sat on it for too long before it got re-assigned to me), and it's *at least *a 30-minute drive from the warehouse + 2 major protests going on in SF this weekend.
> 
> After I leave the warehouse with the late 1-hour, i'm sitting in downtown traffic and the customer cancels, and they immediately assign me another 1-hour before I even have a chance to go back to the warehouse. I immediately called support to let them know they need to re-assign the second one because it was going to be really really late if I ended up delivering.
> 
> ...


This is just classic amazon. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Nothing new I have an online business selling on amazon for 7+ years. It's the biggest mess on the support side of things like the performance department doesn't have a phone number and doesn't talk to the seller support department.

That's just amazon... trying to do 10,000 things at once and never plans out anything it does or learns from its mistakes fast enough.


----------

