# F- Detroit, enough is enough, the joke is on you, not on Detroit drivers!



## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

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With the new low rates, Detroit fares on average are 21% more expensive than fares in Tampa, yet people keep talking Detroit more than anything. Here is a comparison of several actual trips using current rates in both cities and using flat fares.

I did not add SRF as it has no impact on driver earnings. But except for 1 trip, all Detroit trips I sampled were more expensive than Tampa trips.

Drivers in Detroit30/30 make more money than drivers in Tampa65/11. That's my conclusion!

As can be seen, almost everyone is fixated on mileage and most people are losing focus and forget that time is valued higher in Detroit and this makes up more than necessary to beat Tampa for its higher mileage rate. Tampa is more screwed than Detroit because our time is valued at 11 cents. Yet, the entire world is discussing Detroit.

Wake up people! Please!


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

None of the fares in either city are making the driver's any money. In fact the driver's are actually losing money at these rates.


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## UberBlackPr1nce (Dec 28, 2014)

UberXTampa said:


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Ok, they're both ******ed (one slightly more than the other)
No worries the rest of the world will be right behind you when rate cuts come in spring. Tampa and Detroit drivers are paving the way to destitution (you both can have equal share of the blame)
Thanks for sharing this data.


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## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

No real surprise here, one of the site mods did the calculations in my signature. Detroit , with a 50% mileage cut , and a 130% increase in $/mile, took an actual cut of about 16% on a prototypical avg fare.

Palm springs, with a 45% cut in mileage rate (from $1.40- .80c all else unchanged) took a *65%* cut on a prototypical fare. (the drivers expenses of .30c/mi +/- remained constant ergo 65%)

In Detroit's case ,these prototypical fares aren't as common and it seems a major problem (amongst others) is being *starved for trips* as so many drivers are still on the road desperate.

Many drivers in Detroit were living on cannibalizing their own autos equity, maintenance, damage etc. One cannot cannibalize gas, as it is not deferrable as depreciation and maintenance are. With the most recent cuts the drivers *will be put out of their misery* involuntarily thru breakdowns, repossessions, lack of fuel , body damage etc.

That said, the writing was on the wall a long time ago. Cuts like Palm springs are catastrophic for most but a few.

It appears Uber is trying to further micromanage cities/locales with intermittent *surges*.. to mitigate the cuts but these are erratic and fleeting for the driver

A new emphasis on *surges* (to compensate) seems counterproductive _*as they are confusing for the passenger , especially at 2x and above.*_

_CC_


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## DieselkW (Jul 21, 2015)

Well done UberXTampa - nice spreadsheet. I hope you didn't create that while waiting for a ping behind the wheel, because it obviously took some time.

First - I think people focus on the mileage reimbursement because it's miles that are costing us. Time is a less tangible commodity.
Second - this doesn't account for minimum fares, which are based on miles not time, right?

I'm a little shocked that rates in Tampa are so low, given the cost of living in that city compared to Detroit.

I wonder, what is a national "_average_" trip? 10 miles/20 minutes at a 30mph speed? In your example, the duration of the trip seems a little off considering the mileage.

Does it take 25 minutes to go 9 miles in Tampa? That's a lot of red lights and skews the numbers compared to Detroit, where you don't go very far in any direction without hopping on a highway to _average_ 30 mph.

60 mph is a mile a minute, so 30mph is a half mile a minute. Try 9 miles in 18 minutes, and see how the two cities compare.

D: (9*30)+(18*30)+$0.5 = $8.70
T: (9*65)+(18*11)+ $1 = $8.83

So, it sucks to drive for any TNC in any city. Except I'd rather live in Tampa, if I could afford it.

*edit to change base fare in Detroit to 50¢


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

DieselkW said:


> Well done UberXTampa - nice spreadsheet. I hope you didn't create that while waiting for a ping behind the wheel, because it obviously took some time.


No, I did not do this while driving since I already stopped driving the day the rates were cut. Since then, I only had 1 high surge fare and the @hole 1-starred me.

I went through my trips and picked up several rides and plugged them in into my spreadsheet. I can try more trips, like at least 100 and see what happens. When I have time later tonight, I will do and report back.

But, no, it is not Detroit that's is screwed the most. It is Tampa, Orlando and many other cities where time value is extremely low. Detroit rates are terrible. But, they are not the worst market because of their 30c/minute rate. I know I am speeding when I have pax (when I was driving that is). at least 5 miles abvove speed limits and typically 10-15 miles. Just so I drop off and get back to more pickups. since time was valuable, to get the most out of mileage, I was trying to go as fast as I can with pax like hauling @ss.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

When its cheaper to take an Uber from Detroit to NYC (like it is now)than fly the rates are to low!


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## DieselkW (Jul 21, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> When its cheaper to take an Uber from Detroit to NYC (like it is now)than fly the rates are to low!


Hmmm. Interesting

615 miles and 10 hours.

(615*30)+(600*30) = $364.50

Southwest Airlines (Anytime Fare) one way Detroit to LaGuardia is $446 and would take 7 hours because of changing planes.

Wow. It's actually cheaper to take an Uber than it is to fly, and takes almost the same amount of time. More elbow room.

Economy of scale: Take three friends from Detroit to NYC for $90 each. Tip not "required".


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## TheJudge (Jan 19, 2016)

UberXTampa said:


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TheJudge said:


> Exploitation- Desperate people in a desperate place will do desperate things Detroit vs Uber. Be Strong Detroit


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## uberAdam78 (Nov 8, 2014)

Your calculations are not correct. Detroit base fare is 50 cents not 1.05


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## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

DieselkW said:


> Hmmm. Interesting
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> 615 miles and 10 hours.
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615 miles x .30/c/mi =$183 in expenses

You have to deadhead back 615 miles x .30/c/mi=$183

$364 x .20 (old uber fee) =$292 - $183 in expenses=$110

So you get an (optimistic) $110 for 20++ hrs work. A solid $4-5 /hr --- *this is great for Detroit*!!
(of course 20hrs on the road, perhaps $50 for a motel if you konk out.....) now $1.50-3.00 (still not bad for Detroit)

CC


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> When its cheaper to take an Uber from Detroit to NYC (like it is now)than fly the rates are to low!


Jet fuel is more expensive and a flight gets you there faster. Flights are _supposed_ to cost more.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

ColdRider said:


> Jet fuel is more expensive and a flight gets you there faster. Flights are _supposed_ to cost more.


Supposed to? I can fly from NY to Fort Myers FL for less than $300. If I take an Uber it's at least $1500. Not sure what you mean by "supposed to cost more".


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## vaybar (Jun 24, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


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Nice work! It forces drivers to expand their view. I hope this helps too! Now that rates are so low nationally, and driver income has decreased there is good news. We can partake in a host of government subsidies. For example, some drivers can cancel their $10-12,000 a year health insurance plans. At the new rates, we fall below the poverty level and the government will support us and Uber. We are also subsidiezed by the taxpaers because they foot the bill on our depreciation. It's likely that if we take advantage of government welfare based on our new rates that this news mode of national transport us and Uber will receive government welfare. Win/win, cheap rates, less income, more riders, taxpayer subsidies for us. It's all god after all!


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> Supposed to? I can fly from NY to Fort Myers FL for less than $300. If I take an Uber it's at least $1500. Not sure what you mean by "supposed to cost more".


The reason the flight costs $300 is because there are multiple customers paying that amount (more or less) and filling up the seats.

I bet you a private flight will cost way more than $300.


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## DieselkW (Jul 21, 2015)

Private jet pilots don't come back empty, they get a hotel and meals and spending money, then they take the passenger back to the 'home' airport.

Your "private driver", on a ten hour trip as I figured above (Detroit to NY) will make ten dollars an hour before dead heading back for a total profit of 5 dollars an hour.

We really are better off digging graves.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

DieselkW said:


> Private jet pilots don't come back empty, they get a hotel and meals and spending money, then they take the passenger back to the 'home' airport.
> 
> Your "private driver", on a ten hour trip as I figured above (Detroit to NY) will make ten dollars an hour before dead heading back for a total profit of 5 dollars an hour.
> 
> We really are better off digging graves.


Well, I would sure hope nobody would want to take a ten hour trip in an uber then! Why would someone whose to spend more money than a commercial flight to spend more time crammed in a small uberx?

If they fear flying, take a bus or train. I'm sure that's the cheapest option anyway.


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