# You're not making money so....



## gregthedriver (Dec 28, 2014)

Why in the hell are people doing this job.


----------



## UBERxGc (Feb 8, 2015)

First, you could've added your valuable statement as a reply to one of the hundred threads that would be suitable.

Second, why in the hell do you care so much?


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

Hi,

I started just tonight. I went online a few hours after getting activated. I took my time in between riders, and accepted every ping even if it was 10 minutes away.

From start to finish, I drove 133 miles in my Prius.

I made $133 in fares before paying Uber their commission and other fees. Funny seeing that number twice.

So overall I made $1 per mile (just my fun way of thinking of it), and worked (it really isn't work) a leisurely ~5 hours at most. I was out longer, but stopped for food and checked my balance statement and called family to tell them how it was going.

$96 after fees.

5 hours working for yourself, paying yourself $96 is pretty good.

I paid $12 in gas; just a side note. This expense is included in the mileage deduction.

I take the mileage deduction of $0.575 for 133 miles = $76.48
I add in the fees I paid to Uber = $37
Total Expenses+Deductions: $113.48

Net Profit:
(Loss of $17.48)

My calculated cost of operating my Prius, excluding gas (maintenance, insurance, oil only), I am estimating that to be like $3.25 per day. So the IRS allowing me to take that mileage deduction means I don't have to pay the 15.3% self-employment tax for today. Now of course we don't calculate taxes per-day, but this is just an example of how I am "losing money."

Now down the line, maybe I'll make more and it won't be that big of a loss, and should become profit. When that happens, I will set aside the taxes and so on. I mean, I am setting them aside now, but for the sake of argument, I didn't have to.

The bottom line is I put $96 into my pocket for today, my first day. Sort out the mess later. People are doing this because if you are smart and think of it like a business, you can make money. If you don't run it like your own business, you will be an idiot who will lease or finance a $20,000 car and find that being forced to work is the exact opposite of being your own boss.

Hope this helps!


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Vexus said:


> Hi,
> 
> I started just tonight. I went online a few hours after getting activated. I took my time in between riders, and accepted every ping even if it was 10 minutes away.
> 
> ...


Yes, it's amazing what you can do when you're not burdened with pesky things like actual commercial insurance or other necessary regulations.

Part timers can leisurely siphon away business from legitimate cab drivers. What an awesome company.


----------



## getFubered (Feb 18, 2015)

Vexus said:


> The bottom line is I put $96 into my pocket for today, my first day. Sort out the mess later.


Is that a serious statement. You (albeit inaccurately) admitted you were operating at a loss and your answer is "mmm I'll sort it out later". You just about paid Uber to drive people around while exposing yourself to all sorts of risk. Please explain how "thinking of it like a business" magically makes a business profitable?

This is why they are all but getting away with murder.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Vexus said:


> Hi,
> 
> I started just tonight. I went online a few hours after getting activated. I took my time in between riders, and accepted every ping even if it was 10 minutes away.
> 
> ...


You subtracted your $37 in fees twice. $96 is after fees. You then subtracted $113.48 from $96 to arrive at (-$17.48), and that $113.48 includes the $37 in fees again.

If you subtract your $37 in fees once, your profit is then $19.52.

It's probably higher than that given it probably doesn't cost you $0.575 per mile to operate your Prius.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> You subtracted your $37 in fees twice. $96 is after fees. You then subtracted $113.48 from $96 to arrive at (-$17.48), and that $113.48 includes the $37 in fees again.
> 
> If you subtract your $37 in fees once, your profit is then $19.52.
> 
> It's probably higher than that given it probably doesn't cost you $0.575 per mile to operate your Prius.


Vaseline is made of petro as well. Instead of going to the gas station, go to your nearest liquor store, buy some grease, go to a jail fence -- then grease it up real good and bend over in front of that fence.

Buying petro products to get ****ed does have cheaper methods.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> Vaseline is made of petro as well. Instead of going to the gas station, go to your nearest liquor store, buy some grease, go to a jail fence -- then grease it up real good and bend over in front of that fence.
> 
> Buying petro products to get ****ed does have cheaper methods.


Not sure what this has to do with my post. But if it does, I get the sense you think Vexus is getting "****ed".

There are Uber drivers that are, especially in Orlando at $0.75 per mile, and some smaller markets that are even below that rate.

But Vexus is in Seattle where it's $1.10 per mile. And Vexus drove one of the most lucrative periods of the week.

If her car costs are $0.30 per mile (doable in a Prius), then I calculate the profit to be $56.10. For five hours of work, that's $11.22 an hour. Not great, but not bad either.

Now if Vexus was trying to earn a living driving in Orlando full time, there's no way Vexus would come close to $11.22 an hour of profit. Because Uber has "fcuked" drivers in Orlando at that rate. If Seattle is cut to $0.75 per mile too, then they will join the many other cities in the "****ed by Uber" club.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Not sure what this has to do with my post. But if it does, I get the sense you think Vexus is getting "****ed".
> 
> There are Uber drivers that are, especially in Orlando at $0.75 per mile, and some smaller markets that are even below that rate.
> 
> ...


Seattle's min wage is $11 in less than 30 days. So, we won't say she was ****ed, let's just call it an Über forced throat-shafting ********. She did get 22¢ above minimum wage when we leave depreciation loss out of it.

John Anderson, MBA, MS Industrial Engineering, PHD Organization Behavior Student (GaTech)


----------



## gregthedriver (Dec 28, 2014)

When you get in an accident without insurance in between rides what will you do when your sued for Hundreds of thousands and State Farm or whatever drops you for operating as a commercial vehicle?


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

gregthedriver said:


> When you get in an accident without insurance in between rides what will you do when your sued for Hundreds of thousands and State Farm or whatever drops you for operating as a commercial vehicle?


That's when you verifiably change from giving a forced sloppy ******** to being flat ****ed. And if there's injury or worse because you were looking at your phone because sociopath/rider didn't want to have to give directions or even name of destination, expect jail. Remember, at these ridiculous rates, you can't afford a lawyer. For the cost of a tank of gas, you can buy a mega ***** and a can of crisco and **** yourself without ever stepping out the door. You won't get sued, no vomit will be left in your car, and no jail time ever.


----------



## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> That's when you verifiably change from giving a forced sloppy ******** to being flat ****ed. And if there's injury or worse because you were looking at your phone because sociopath/rider didn't want to have to give directions or even name of destination, expect jail. Remember, at these ridiculous rates, you can't afford a lawyer. For the cost of a tank of gas, you can buy a mega ***** and a can of crisco and **** yourself without ever stepping out the door. You won't get sued, no vomit will be left in your car, and no jail time ever.


So great that you get to live out your fantasies on this forum for all of us to gag at.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

ChrisInABQ said:


> So great that you get to live out your fantasies on this forum for all of us to gag at.


Not a fantasy, just figuratively speaking. I just think it's a shame when ppl are letting others take advantage of them unknowingly. It really does break my heart, honestly.


----------



## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> Not a fantasy, just figuratively speaking. I just think it's a shame when ppl are letting others take advantage of them unknowingly. It really does break my heart, honestly.


Okay, but your figurative speech seems to come from some deep-seeded sexual aggression.

It may be a shame, but most on this forum are not doing so unknowingly. They're accepting the risk and crossing their fingers that they don't become the example of what NOT to do. I don't think your figurative speech is changing any minds on here...might want to adopt a new approach. Perhaps one that sounds like it comes from an educated person such as yourself.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

ChrisInABQ said:


> Okay, but your figurative speech seems to come from some deep-seeded sexual aggression.
> 
> It may be a shame, but most on this forum are not doing so unknowingly. They're accepting the risk and crossing their fingers that they don't become the example of what NOT to do. I don't think your figurative speech is changing any minds on here...might want to adopt a new approach. Perhaps one that sounds like it comes from an educated person such as yourself.


No. No sexual fantasies here, at least none I haven't already acted out. Honestly.

You say people are knowingly throwing away their own personal worth while risking the rest of their worth and even freedom to finance the wealth for a few other people?

You also say that some on here are knowingly doing with their own money what the government does with their taxes: pull the money out of your hands, possibly at gunpoint, to finance billionaires' wars and send blood money to the victims? That is involuntary, Uber isn't.

I can't believe that since this company is global, that the entire human species is that stupid. It has to be out of ignorance that someone would continue doing this every week.


----------



## gregthedriver (Dec 28, 2014)

With great risk comes great.... Life ruined?


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

gregthedriver said:


> With great risk comes great.... Life ruined?


The usual theme when you complain in circa 20th century was, well you didn't take the risk. That's what was said to employees.

Now, they're expecting workers to take A L L of the risk with little to no benefit. These people are issuing stocks out of thin air on the backs and assets of people who will never get a dime, never. The sad part is that ppl are stupid enough not to understand that continual labor with break even to negative ROI and perpetual debt is slavery. The other word for a slave is a bondsman which also doubles for inmate, parolee, or debtor.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> The usual theme when you complain in circa 20th century was, well you didn't take the risk. That's what was said to employees.
> 
> Now, they're expecting workers to take A L L of the risk with little to no benefit. These people are issuing stocks out of thin air on the backs and assets of people who will never get a dime, never. The sad part is that ppl are stupid enough not to understand that continual labor with break even to negative ROI and perpetual debt is slavery. The other word for a slave is a bondsman which also doubles for inmate, parolee, or debtor.


Pretty sure Gregthedriver was making a Spiderman joke.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Pretty sure Gregthedriver was making a Spiderman joke.


I was agreeing with him. Life ruined is the only outcome if you drive for Über.


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

@UberHammer
You're right, I calculated the fees twice on accident. Stayed up all night and I apologize to anyone who based anything off that. I'm not re-doing the calculation - I'll take your word for it here - but that means $19.52 profit = $2.99 in taxes.

For everyone thinking I am getting ****ed by Uber; it is $96 I didn't have before. The operating expense of my Prius is 0.115 cents per mile for the night. That is $3.25 daily insurance,oil,maintenance I calculated + $12 gas. Of course eventually I will calculate this on a weekly level.

@Hackenstein
Yes, I am competing with taxi cab drivers and people who do this full time. If the taxi companies did not screw over their drivers, city, and passengers so much, Uber would not be this big. I am not doing Uber as a full time job, and my day job pays all the bills and then some. This is just to pay off the used Prius I bought, and then save up for another, and save up for things needed around the house. Just accelerating my income a bit, when I would otherwise be at home playing games on the computer.

I am not planning to go full time, just maybe evenings for a few hours, weekends. I stopped at 12:30am or so, so I didn't cut into the late night surge. Not that I wouldn't, but it was a long day. I have no problem being a competitor to taxi companies.

@getFubered
If I take the actual cost of maintenance, gas, and so on, I am only deducting ~$15 for the night for gas and my calculated wear and tear, tires, oil (roughly $1200/year is what I am using for maintenance, oil, tires: gas is variable and separate).
That leaves me with a profit of $81, meaning I also then pay taxes on $81, which 15.3% is $12.39 = actual pocketed money gets down to $68.60.
BUT I am NOT using actual expense, I am using the standard mileage deduction, which is $76.48, reducing my taxable income down to $19.52. Of that, $2.99 is set aside for tax purposes, and even some of that is deductible. So numerically, I seem to only have made $16.53 for 5 hours work, but that is what it will look like on paper. In reality, I made $96, I paid $12 for gas, $3.25 for maintenance, $2.99 for taxes = $77.76 - $77 is what I could reasonably spend out of that $96 and not owe anyone anything.

That is $15 per hour after taxes.

I work full time during the day, so to be able to have a part time business on the side where I pay myself $15 per hour and I don't have to look at it like a per-hour thing but rather "**** YEAH I just made $77 I didn't have a few hours ago..."
Sorry for those not in that situation. I would happily discuss why you think if I go off the road it would be better for anyone. But I'd rather try to bring people into a positive light. If I worked an 8 hour night, and put in some overtime, no doubt I would have made over $120 for the day which is not a bad wage. And again, totally new here, 11 rides for the night, I'm sure you can do better.

Really that is why I joined this forum. I see a lot of negative but I want to try and help shine light on the positive. If you do this as your full time job, I know for SURE it can be tough. There really is a balance of how much you charge your riders, to how many riders Uber has, to how many drivers are on the road. Obviously the driver portion can be saturated - but if you have no riders because they can't get a ride, it wouldn't be a popular app. If Uber does not work for you, I know there are other services/apps that allow you to set your own price. Maybe that is the future. Uber is the starting point for a lot of people using rideshare and driving rideshare. They don't have everything perfect, and there is room for a superior product. But until some other app can grab a driver who is not even a block away on a Saturday night to bring a couple safely home from downtown Seattle to Queen Anne... anyway.

@John Anderson
I think where everyone goes wrong is they think they are working for Uber. You don't work for Uber - they work for you. They are a payment processor, insurance broker, and contract negotiator. If someone came to me and said "I will find someone to pay you $10 to drive them 6 miles, I just want 10%" - would you do it? Sure. If you used any credit card payment system out there, lets use Swipe as a high-cost example of 2.75%, for your own business that brings the total to 12.75%. Now add the back end of contract negotiation and insurance broker. Seeing as I paid 28% of my earnings to Uber last night, I still have a long way to go for it to make sense, but there is some sense to be had there. The $1 per ride is probably the worst fee, because $11 for last night for insurance is like a $2500/year insurance cost on top of personal insurance. Ouch!

So how much would you pay someone to provide a seamless app interface with your clients, do all your credit card processing, negotiate contracts with your clients, acquire clients for you in high volume, and insure your business? 28% is a huge cut, but they are covering half the actual work. It is not unheard of. My total earnings were $26.6 per hour, but my spendable earnings are $15 per hour, meaning I paid $11.6 per hour to operate.... anyway...

If you don't like that, by all means start your own retail business outside of Uber. Begin with $3000/month rent, $120/month business insurance, $90 licensing fee, $60/month accounting software, $6000 product cost per month, average 2.2% credit card processing, filing checks, cash, and making bank runs for deposits. Invoicing customers, software which is ~$110/month. Advertising $3000/month. It goes on quite a bit more...

Yeah it is hard either way you go. Drive a car and get paid seems a lot easier to me though.

Again, keep in mind you are the business owner, the clients are your clients, and you pay Uber to facilitate multiple quick and smooth transactions. If they do not, find someone else who will, or start your own business doing something else.

Lastly, the icon at the top left of my posts is that of a male. I don't care how I am referred to, but I'll put some car picture with fire and paint and explosions so you don't have to think about it.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Vexus said:


> @UberHammer
> 
> @Hackenstein
> Yes, I am competing with taxi cab drivers and people who do this full time. If the taxi companies did not screw over their drivers, city, and passengers so much, Uber would not be this big. I am not doing Uber as a full time job, and my day job pays all the bills and then some. This is just to pay off the used Prius I bought, and then save up for another, and save up for things needed around the house. Just accelerating my income a bit, when I would otherwise be at home playing games on the computer.
> ...


Such an absurd lie.

Here's what Uber is doing in Alaska, and has been trying to do worldwide. Blame it on taxi companies, cities, countries, the Milky Way, whomever. Uber exists because it's somehow being allowed to break every law, ignore regulations, and enable drivers to drive without proper insurance.

"Anchorage Assembly chair Dick Traini -- who along with Assembly member Amy Demboski authored the ordinance setting up the memorandum of understanding -- has said he is supportive of transportation alternatives like Uber, especially for underserved parts of Anchorage like Eagle River and Girdwood. But Traini claimed the *negotiations fell apart because, in addition to insurance requirements, Uber was not budging on several other issues, like the city's demand that Uber drivers be fingerprinted, get chauffeur licenses and undergo drug testing*."

https://www.adn.com/article/20150306/no-more-free-rides-uber-pulls-out-anchorage


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Vexus said:


> @UberHammer
> You're right, I calculated the fees twice on accident. Stayed up all night and I apologize to anyone who based anything off that. I'm not re-doing the calculation - I'll take your word for it here - but that means $19.52 profit = $2.99 in taxes.
> 
> For everyone thinking I am getting ****ed by Uber; it is $96 I didn't have before. The operating expense of my Prius is 0.115 cents per mile for the night. That is $3.25 daily insurance,oil,maintenance I calculated + $12 gas. Of course eventually I will calculate this on a weekly level.
> ...


Absolutely wrong. When u own your own business, you design the policies, do your own accounting, and set your rates based on all of this. Uber is setting the rates to compete with THEIR competitors, not yours. Don't say it's like a franchise because even McDonald's doesn't just inadvertently change rates
Face it, you are an employee who is being taken advantage of. Denial of this fact won't make it any better.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> Absolutely wrong. When u own your own business, you design the policies, do your own accounting, and set your rates based on all of this. Uber is setting the rates to compete with THEIR competitors, not yours. Don't say it's like a franchise because even McDonald's doesn't just inadvertently change rates
> Face it, you are an employee who is being taken advantage of. Denial of this fact won't make it any better.


And McDonald's doesn't try to claim it's not in the fast food business.

If McDonalds were like Uber, they'd claim they're merely a 'nutrient P2P' and claim they have the right to use non-USDA certified beef to undercut their competitors.


----------



## lu181 (Nov 3, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> And McDonald's doesn't try to claim it's not in the fast food business.
> 
> If McDonalds were like Uber, they'd claim they're merely a 'nutrient P2P' and claim they have the right to use non-USDA certified beef to undercut their competitors.


Mcdonalds is having some real sales issues last few years remember they started a race to the bottom as well with the dollar menu and sales have slowly declined while companies offering better service and food at higher prices are taking market share uber should take notice its not always about lowest price


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

@Hackenstein
The main reason taxi's are bad is because they imposed a monopoly on cities. They used bribery and deceit to get lawmakers to enact laws to make it illegal to just give someone a ride. They set up all sorts of complicated policy to say who can and who cannot get paid to give someone a ride. Monopolization wasn't bad enough; fees and regulation were imposed on taxi drivers, causing them to pay for a bunch of bullshit that has nothing to do with actually driving a car, probably akin to having to pay fees and licensing to ride a bike. The taxi companies get their cut, but the driver then pays for all the depreciation of vehicles and so on. $22k/year as a taxi driver who probably brought in $50-70k to the company. Not bad, but not great either. Then enter unions, legal issues, congestion issues, taxation, regulation, all for what? To get more money from the drivers and companies who provide a service.

Cut all that shit out. Let me, and individual, exercise my right to do with my property what I want. If I want to drive someone and charge them $20 for it, I should not be breaking the law, and in fact I am not. That is the beauty of freedom, you get to do what you want. Because as an individual I can decide on my own to drive people around and accept payment for that, because we have freedom, is the only reason Uber exists. If the cab companies had their way, they would make it illegal to accept payment from any third party for driving that third party anywhere. In other words, they would have you arrested for your mom giving you $20 for driving her to the airport if they could. They only want you to use their taxi service.

Uber screws it all up by using freedom - that ability for me to post on Craigslist and say "YO, need a ride to the airport? $20 flat rate up to 15 miles!" They just took it to the extreme, merged it with current technology, and boom.

I have taken a few taxis and I don't like them. I don't like cash. I don't like the implied tip. I don't like the $2.50+ per mile. I don't like the window between my driver and myself sometimes. I want a casual ride to the airport. I get that with Uber. It made me excited to sign up and do it myself it was so carefree and natural. It was literally like having a friend drive you to the airport for $20. In fact, it is exactly that freedom that allows Uber to exist while seeming to 'break or bypass laws'. The fact is, there is no law stopping you from giving someone a ride

@John Anderson
LOL! As a self-employed person you DO design your own policies, you do any amount of accounting you wish, and you set your rates. If you are willing to the use UBER as a middle man to obtain more customers (SEE Craigslist reference above) that is ON YOU. They, as a payment processor, contract negotiator, and insurance broker, set their own rates for doing your business through their platform. You have the CHOICE to use them or not.

Seeing as I don't have to go to work at any time for anyone, and can go online - can engage in my business - whenever I feel like it, that is not an 'employee'. I have employees, and what makes them employees is they have to perform tasks to my standard to get their paycheck; they have to be there at a certain time and work for a certain length of time or they no longer can get their paycheck. I can see how if you do Uber full time you may kid yourself into thinking it is a job, but it is a job you pay yourself for. You can easily extrapolate upon Uber to make it a personal business (find higher end clients, give them a business card with a flat rate to the airport or something, build clientele on the side) nothing is stopping you. That is why water, gum, etc. is 'expected' now for a lot of Uber riders because they want better service. I don't mind giving someone $0.10 bottle of Kirkland purified water from Costco. The only part that sucks is Uber gets the credit for that service - but only when YOU as the driver do not THINK about how to grow your own business.

If you do it like a job, and don't do it like you are growing a business, you will burn out and be out of a job the moment you have any problems with your car. Get ****ing creative.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

lu181 said:


> Mcdonalds is having some real sales issues last few years remember they started a race to the bottom as well with the dollar menu and sales have slowly declined while companies offering better service and food at higher prices are taking market share uber should take notice its not always about lowest price


McDonalds made Five Guys what it is.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

@John Anderson


> LOL! As a self-employed person you DO design your own policies, you do any amount of accounting you wish, and you set your rates. If you are willing to the use UBER as a middle man to obtain more customers (SEE Craigslist reference above) that is ON YOU. They, as a payment processor, contract negotiator, and insurance broker, set their own rates for doing your business through their platform. You have the CHOICE to use them or not.
> 
> Seeing as I don't have to go to work at any time for anyone, and can go online - can engage in my business - whenever I feel like it, that is not an 'employee'. I have employees, and what makes them employees is they have to perform tasks to my standard to get their paycheck; they have to be there at a certain time and work for a certain length of time or they no longer can get their paycheck. I can see how if you do Uber full time you may kid yourself into thinking it is a job, but it is a job you pay yourself for. You can easily extrapolate upon Uber to make it a personal business (find higher end clients, give them a business card with a flat rate to the airport or something, build clientele on the side) nothing is stopping you. That is why water, gum, etc. is 'expected' now for a lot of Uber riders because they want better service. I don't mind giving someone $0.10 bottle of Kirkland purified water from Costco. The only part that sucks is Uber gets the credit for that service - but only when YOU as the driver do not THINK about how to grow your own business.
> 
> If you do it like a job, and don't do it like you are growing a business, you will burn out and be out of a job the moment you have any problems with your car. Get ****ing creative.


I no longer drive for them. There is too much risk for too little money. My focus is elsewhere.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Vexus said:


> @Hackenstein
> The main reason taxi's are bad is because they imposed a monopoly on cities. They used bribery and deceit to get lawmakers to enact laws to make it illegal to just give someone a ride. They set up all sorts of complicated policy to say who can and who cannot get paid to give someone a ride. Monopolization wasn't bad enough; fees and regulation were imposed on taxi drivers, causing them to pay for a bunch of bullshit that has nothing to do with actually driving a car, probably akin to having to pay fees and licensing to ride a bike. The taxi companies get their cut, but the driver then pays for all the depreciation of vehicles and so on. $22k/year as a taxi driver who probably brought in $50-70k to the company. Not bad, but not great either. Then enter unions, legal issues, congestion issues, taxation, regulation, all for what? To get more money from the drivers and companies who provide a service.
> 
> Cut all that shit out. Let me, and individual, exercise my right to do with my property what I want. If I want to drive someone and charge them $20 for it, I should not be breaking the law, and in fact I am not. That is the beauty of freedom, you get to do what you want. Because as an individual I can decide on my own to drive people around and accept payment for that, because we have freedom, is the only reason Uber exists. If the cab companies had their way, they would make it illegal to accept payment from any third party for driving that third party anywhere. In other words, they would have you arrested for your mom giving you $20 for driving her to the airport if they could. They only want you to use their taxi service.
> ...


Taxis aren't bad at all, especially in NYC.

You can scream the bullshit 'monopoly' garbage all day if it makes you feel better. Cab numbers in NYC are limited to 13,000 to avoid over saturation and make the job viable because they are extremely important to the functioning of the city itself.

Right now, the vast majority of Uber drivers are using personal insurance to operate as a commercial taxi.

That single fact is criminal. That is how this company even exists.


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

As a quick follow up on the above:

Consider computers, a field in which I am expert.

=====
Years ago businesses required their own servers for all sorts of reasons.

Other companies saw this and decided outsourcing their servers was a good business model.

The cloud was promoted and all sorts of companies now offer cloud services.

Everyone jumps into using cloud services because it is more cost effective than buying bulk hardware for cloud services; backup data, run apps, etc.

Everyone sees how much they are paying for cloud services and balks.

Providers start popping up allowing people to buy their own personal cloud hardware.

Companies start selling clients on their need for their own servers.

Businesses are now requiring their own cloud servers.
=====


----------



## gregthedriver (Dec 28, 2014)

Venus your delusional kid. When you get into that almost inevitable accident and your insurance drops you . Then you get personally sued for a hundred large. Don't say you were not warned son


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Taxis aren't bad at all, especially in NYC.
> 
> You can scream the bullshit 'monopoly' garbage all day if it makes you feel better. Cab numbers in NYC are limited to 13,000 to avoid over saturation and make the job viable because they are extremely important to the functioning of the city itself.
> 
> ...


There you go. Cab numbers in NYC are limited. So we get bullshit like black people getting passed over by taxis, or waiting 15-30m for a taxi during rush periods, having to sit in traffic and watch the meter tick away at .50 cents per minute and so on. Just to appease the unions and monopolies to "make the job viable" instead of promoting freedom and opportunity, to allow anyone who wants to drive, to drive, and help people out on both ends.

No, Uber drivers are using personal insurance to operate their private property however the hell they want. For example, I had a couple thank you letters to mail out before I began my night last night, and didn't make it to the post office until 4 hours later due to all the pings. I got my chore done, but it took a lot longer.


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

gregthedriver said:


> Venus your delusional kid. When you get into that almost inevitable accident and your insurance drops you . Then you get personally sued for a hundred large. Don't say you were not warned son


Did this happen to you?

I am a super, super defensive driver. The only way you get sued when in an accident is if you are at fault. If someone hits me, I'm the one suing them for $100k, not the other way around.

You are saying you have had 2 at-fault accidents in a short enough period that your life is ruined now or what? I'd just try to be a better driver.


----------



## gregthedriver (Dec 28, 2014)

Vexus said:


> Did this happen to you?
> 
> I am a super, super defensive driver. The only way you get sued when in an accident is if you are at fault. If someone hits me, I'm the one suing them for $100k, not the other way around.
> 
> You are saying you have had 2 at-fault accidents in a short enough period that your life is ruined now or what? I'd just try to be a better driver.


 happens to a lot of people . Try being defensive looking at your phone half the time. You and the rest of Uber drivers have high potential to possibly kill someone it's only a matter of time


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Vexus said:


> There you go. Cab numbers in NYC are limited. So we get bullshit like black people getting passed over by taxis, or waiting 15-30m for a taxi during rush periods, having to sit in traffic and watch the meter tick away at .50 cents per minute and so on. Just to appease the unions and monopolies to "make the job viable" instead of promoting freedom and opportunity, to allow anyone who wants to drive, to drive, and help people out on both ends.
> 
> No, Uber drivers are using personal insurance to operate their private property however the hell they want. For example, I had a couple thank you letters to mail out before I began my night last night, and didn't make it to the post office until 4 hours later due to all the pings. I got my chore done, but it took a lot longer.


Yes, they are. They are limited. They need to be, as an extension of the mass transit system. Over saturation doesn't fly for legit NYC taxis.

Yellow cabs don't have a union.

There is no monopoly.

Uber is a criminal company which was forced to make sure their drivers use commercial insurance in NYC, but in most places, drivers use personal insurance which covers jack shit.

Gotta love the nonsensical 'freedom' spiel. What it is is lawlessness.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Oh, and btw, regarding minorities.

I've read this forum enough to know that Uber drivers merely circle the block for passengers they don't want and wait for them to cancel, particularly when price gouging hour starts. So go **** yourself with that too.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

gregthedriver said:


> happens to a lot of people . Try being defensive looking at your phone half the time. You and the rest of Uber drivers have high potential to possibly kill someone it's only a matter of time


This why I do NOT drive while waiting for a fare.

When I get a ping, I have 15 seconds to gather the info of the request and think about whether or not I want to accept it. I cannot imagine doing that while driving. On the freeway I'd have gone 1/4 of a mile with my mind somewhere completely away from driving.

When Uber has 1,000,000 drivers on the road by the end of the 2015 like they plan, it literally scares the shit out of me to think about my wife and kids out there knowing what I know about how this technology works.


----------



## gregthedriver (Dec 28, 2014)

http://time.com/3625556/uber-manslaughter-charge-san-francisco/

Uber driver kills 6 year old girl. Are you next? How many more need to die ? How many more need to be assaulted? How much damage does Uber have to do?


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> This why I do NOT drive while waiting for a fare.
> 
> When I get a ping, I have 15 seconds to gather the info of the request and think about whether or not I want to accept it. I cannot imagine doing that while driving. On the freeway I'd have gone 1/4 of a mile with my mind somewhere completely away from driving.
> 
> When Uber has 1,000,000 drivers on the road by the end of the 2015 like they plan, it literally scares the shit out of me to think about my wife and kids out there knowing what I know about how this technology works.


What do you figure that translates to, 950,000 improperly insured drivers on the road pretending to be taxis?

That's great.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> This why I do NOT drive while waiting for a fare.
> 
> When I get a ping, I have 15 seconds to gather the info of the request and think about whether or not I want to accept it. I cannot imagine doing that while driving. On the freeway I'd have gone 1/4 of a mile with my mind somewhere completely away from driving.
> 
> When Uber has 1,000,000 drivers on the road by the end of the 2015 like they plan, it literally scares the shit out of me to think about my wife and kids out there knowing what I know about how this technology works.


You only have to worry about road conditions in high Mexican/Asian driver locations like Los Angeles' koreatown.


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

Over 30,000 people die from car accidents every year, many from drunk driving, and that is a low number from just a few years ago. Uber is taking drunks off the road a lot more now than ever before. It was because people either couldn't rely on a taxi, or didn't have cash and couldn't put it on their credit card, that they'd try to drive home drunk. Now they can pay $10 on their credit card to get to the bar, and $10 to get home safely, and they avoid all the problems associated with drunks and cars and cash on hand.

I'd post a link but I have no likes (plz like me!) Search Google for US Deaths by Year and find the Wikipedia article.

Since Uber was founded, the number of deaths has gone down, while population has increased, and yet miles driven has remained flat. I'd love to see the past 2 years statistics, but trending downward. What this means is there are more people, less deaths, yet miles driven is flat? How is that? Are less people driving? No - the answer is more people are ridesharing. This keeps the miles flat, satisfies the demand for transportation, and that overall it is safer today that it has been in the past.

I am feeling more safe as a pedestrian, rider, and driver.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> What do you figure that translates to, 950,000 improperly insured drivers on the road pretending to be taxis?
> 
> That's great.


I'm still no fan of the medallion system, but I believe Uber is a societal disaster waiting to implode, if they actually do achieve the growth they plan for this year.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Vexus said:


> Over 30,000 people die from car accidents every year, many from drunk driving, and that is a low number from just a few years ago. Uber is taking drunks off the road a lot more now than ever before. It was because people either couldn't rely on a taxi, or didn't have cash and couldn't put it on their credit card, that they'd try to drive home drunk. Now they can pay $10 on their credit card to get to the bar, and $10 to get home safely, and they avoid all the problems associated with drunks and cars and cash on hand.
> 
> I'd post a link but I have no likes (plz like me!) Search Google for US Deaths by Year and find the Wikipedia article.
> 
> ...


I don't frankly care if Uber solves word hunger.

They are an illegal law breaking company which has hundreds of thousands of improperly insured and regulated drivers on the road, doing serious harm to legitimate taxi drivers who play by the rules and purchase commercial insurance.

I don't know you personally, but I guarantee you're driving with personal insurance.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> I don't frankly care if Uber solves word hunger.
> 
> They are an illegal law breaking company which has hundreds of thousands of improperly insured and regulated drivers on the road, doing serious harm to legitimate taxi drivers who play by the rules and purchase commercial insurance.
> 
> I don't know you personally, but I guarantee you're driving with personal insurance.


Hackenstein, that's very harsh language.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> Hackenstein, that's very harsh language.


Perhaps you meant to respond to the post in which I used an expletive.

You know what's really harsh? Trying to destroy an industry by breaking the law.


----------



## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> Perhaps you meant to respond to the post in which I used an expletive.
> 
> You know what's really harsh? Trying to destroy an industry by breaking the law.


Know what's even harsher? Starvation.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Vexus said:


> @UberHammer
> You're right, I calculated the fees twice on accident. Stayed up all night and I apologize to anyone who based anything off that. I'm not re-doing the calculation - I'll take your word for it here - but that means $19.52 profit = $2.99 in taxes.
> 
> For everyone thinking I am getting ****ed by Uber; it is $96 I didn't have before. The operating expense of my Prius is 0.115 cents per mile for the night. That is $3.25 daily insurance,oil,maintenance I calculated + $12 gas. Of course eventually I will calculate this on a weekly level.
> ...


I am curious. If you bought full commercial coverage as an uberx driver shouldn't you be able to opt out of the safe rider fee? If you take a lot of rides it would actually be cheaper to buy the insurance in that case. Don't uber black not pay it because black does have commercial insurance?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> Such an absurd lie.
> 
> Here's what Uber is doing in Alaska, and has been trying to do worldwide. Blame it on taxi companies, cities, countries, the Milky Way, whomever. Uber exists because it's somehow being allowed to break every law, ignore regulations, and enable drivers to drive without proper insurance.
> 
> ...


I am really curious why this (fingerprinting etc.)seems to be an issue in so many cities when it has been done in houston and pretty quickly.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I am curious. If you bought full commercial coverage as an uberx driver shouldn't you be able to opt out of the safe rider fee? If you take a lot of rides it would actually be cheaper to buy the insurance in that case. Don't uber black not pay it because black does have commercial insurance?


If you get all of your papers in order, they'll deactivate u. That's the usual result.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> If you get all of your papers in order, they'll deactivate u. That's the usual result.


Do you have specific knowledge of that?


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Do you have specific knowledge of that?


Yes, it's on this very site. If you get commercial insurance and upgrade your license as required by your state, UberX will terminate your agreement. They want you at their mercy and vulnerable, plus they need the "safe rides" bullshit to seem legit. They really just want the money.


----------



## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> Yes, it's on this very site. If you get commercial insurance and upgrade your license as required by your state, UberX will terminate your agreement. They want you at their mercy and vulnerable, plus they need the "safe rides" bullshit to seem legit. They really just want the money.


Maybe on the licensing part but Uber has no say so if a driver has proper insurance for this gig.

They obviously don't care if drivers don't. Nor do the regulators seem to care either as it pertains to the drivers.


----------



## ChrisInABQ (Oct 21, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Maybe on the licensing part but Uber has no say so if a driver has proper insurance for this gig.
> 
> They obviously don't care if drivers don't. Nor do the regulators seem to care either as it pertains to the drivers.


The agreement that I have addresses insurance on pages 5-6. It sets what personal insurance we must possess and to what limit. It states that our personal insurance will likely not provide liability and a slue of other types of coverages in the event that an accident takes place while operating as TNC. Subparagraph iii list a summary of the liability insurance that they provide. They know we're under-covered and, as you stated, have no say nor concern over whether we've taken the steps to protect our asses.

As you stated, they don't really care if our personal policies leave us inadequately covered at any time other than between acceptance of a request and completion of the trip. That's the only part they care about, and it's only to save face, not to actually 'help' us out. I doubt they care about our financial well-being at all in the event that are involved in a accident with the app on (our fault or not). As long as they're removed from liability...their concerns are addressed.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Yes, they are. They are limited. They need to be, as an extension of the mass transit system. Over saturation doesn't fly for legit NYC taxis.
> 
> Yellow cabs don't have a union.
> 
> ...


Not true, if you have a slice of jack shit in your car while driving an uber ride accident, it isn't covered. You will have lost that slice of jack shit.

The meaning: following an accident during a ride with uber, you will no longer have jack shit. Just clarifying.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Not sure what this has to do with my post. But if it does, I get the sense you think Vexus is getting "****ed".
> 
> There are Uber drivers that are, especially in Orlando at $0.75 per mile, and some smaller markets that are even below that rate.
> 
> ...


Vexus, please reread this post if you want to know what you are making.


----------



## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

This was an interesting point by Vexus:

_"Again, keep in mind you are the business owner, the clients are your clients, and you pay Uber to facilitate multiple quick and smooth transactions. If they do not, find someone else who will, or start your own business doing something else"_

Interesting in that it is True and False at the same time.

True that Drivers are Independent Contractors (yes, I know debatable but let's go with this for now). But even though Drivers are IC and Uber is the "App Company", the Rider is only a, well, "Rider". Client would imply they are your customer going forward in time but that is obviously not true. Client would mean you control the Rate/Fare but that is not true either. I would say that the "The Rider" is actually Uber's Client.

So in the TNC OnDemand model the Rider is not a Client. And Uber is more than a connection to the "Client/Customer" and Payment Transaction and Processing. What term to use in this Triangle of business I'm not quite sure. I'm still thinking this one over but the times they are a changing.

Again, TNC Drivers do not have any Clients. They are customers but not the Drivers. Well, unless they get the name/contact info from the Rider themselves for "Off TNC" jobs.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

gregthedriver said:


> Venus your delusional kid. When you get into that almost inevitable accident and your insurance drops you . Then you get personally sued for a hundred large. Don't say you were not warned son


How do you now Venus does not have Metromile as his insurance carrier? Which covers all miles that UBER does not. He lives in a state that has it approved. I signed up today, and the cloud you attempted to put on his shoulders was lifted off mine, insurance wise anyway. This insurance will soon be in all markets.


----------



## groovyguru (Mar 9, 2015)

Vexus said:


> Hi,
> 
> I started just tonight. I went online a few hours after getting activated. I took my time in between riders, and accepted every ping even if it was 10 minutes away.
> 
> ...


I ran the same numbers on my Mercedes E350 and came out ahead for last year. My deductions negated my full time income, leaving me taking home cash out of my car, which is seriously depleted. (Stopped driving when L.A. rates went to .90.) Problem with the numbers- something I knew from the get go but needed the money out of desperation - is this: Any business that cannot afford to pay for proper licenses and insurance is not structured right. Uber drivers are not business people, they are gypsies flirting with risks they cannot afford.


----------



## groovyguru (Mar 9, 2015)

frndthDuvel said:


> How do you now Venus does not have Metromile as his insurance carrier? Which covers all miles that UBER does not. He lives in a state that has it approved. I signed up today, and the cloud you attempted to put on his shoulders was lifted off mine, insurance wise anyway. This insurance will soon be in all markets.


If venus gets in a wreck while driving a pax he is still ****ed. Uber insurance is not-too-good.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

gregthedriver said:


> http://time.com/3625556/uber-manslaughter-charge-san-francisco/
> 
> Uber driver kills 6 year old girl. Are you next? How many more need to die ? How many more need to be assaulted? How much damage does Uber have to do?


Or how about the UBER drivers who sandwiched that lady , OOPS, I mean the taxis who sandwiched the lady the other day in NYC.

http://nypost.com/2015/03/02/woman-sandwiched-by-two-cabs/


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> Or how about the UBER drivers who sandwiched that lady , OOPS, I mean the taxis who sandwiched the lady the other day in NYC.
> 
> http://nypost.com/2015/03/02/woman-sandwiched-by-two-cabs/


Accidents do happen. The difference being, legitimate yellow taxis carry commercial insurance.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

groovyguru said:


> If venus gets in a wreck while driving a pax he is still ****ed. Uber insurance is not-too-good.


Life is a risk. This is not Chance the gardner's world.


----------



## groovyguru (Mar 9, 2015)

frndthDuvel said:


> Life is a risk. This is not Chance the gardner's world.


One can choose the risk one takes, or just be stupid and not choose.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> Life is a risk. This is not Chance the gardner's world.


Since life is a risk, why even have building construction codes? House collapses and you die? Eh, life is a risk. 'Man up.' Or something.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> I don't know you personally, but I guarantee you're driving with personal insurance.


As of 12:36 pm PST I no longer am.

I am sure the lock tenders were bummed when the railroads came, I am sure the ice wagons were bummed with the refrigerator. Shit happens, fair or not. I do not feel I am hurting any cab drivers, and have no guilt at all if they face some disruption. Not sure many of the cab drivers I see smoking a cig in teh cab between rides care for many others but themselves either. Again, it is life.


----------



## groovyguru (Mar 9, 2015)

frndthDuvel said:


> Or how about the UBER drivers who sandwiched that lady , OOPS, I mean the taxis who sandwiched the lady the other day in NYC.
> 
> http://nypost.com/2015/03/02/woman-sandwiched-by-two-cabs/


Good thing it wasn't a couple of trolling uber drivers, the lady would have no one with deep pockets to sue.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> Since life is a risk, why even have building construction codes? House collapses and you die? Eh, life is a risk. 'Man up.' Or something.


That is kind of like the anti gun argument " can I have a nuclear weapon in my garage,a tank, An APache helicopter?"


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

groovyguru said:


> God thing it wasn't a couple of trolling uber drivers, the lady would have no one with deep pockets to sue.


What, you do not think that UBEr pockets will be touched when the tragic accident you all use for your personal interests is settled?


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

frndthDuvel said:


> That is kind of like the anti gun argument " can I have a nuclear weapon in my garage,a tank, An APache helicopter?"


You have a right to bear arms, that means anything from a knife to a musket to a nuke. You can also make an army. Remember, nothing has changed since 1790. The pro gun crowd also would like to have the right to own people too.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> That is kind of like the anti gun argument " can I have a nuclear weapon in my garage,a tank, An APache helicopter?"


No, it's not.

If you think it's so great to ride around without proper insurance, then put your money where your mouth is and advocate for no regulations on anything, particularly where you personally might be harmed and have no recourse.


----------



## groovyguru (Mar 9, 2015)

frndthDuvel said:


> What, you do not think that UBEr pockets will be touched when the tragic accident you all use for your personal interests is settled?


When uber drivers are trolling they are using their personal insurance for coverage. Uber could deny a claim in this case, as they did in SF with that little girl. So the answer to your question is yes.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> No, it's not.
> 
> If you think it's so great to ride around without proper insurance, then put your money where your mouth is and advocate for no regulations on anything, particularly where you personally might be harmed and have no recourse.


I did put my money where my mouth is. I signed up with Metromile which provides the coverage that my previous coverage did not. Unfortuately it is not available in all states yet. So the risks you talk of still exist. I agree with you, there is risk. But it is mostly on the Driver. And I appreciate your concern for TNC drivers.

Any PAX will either be covered by UBER or even the private coverage. It has not been decided in any court yet that they do not have to pay. They can say it all they want,that does not make it so. Their deep pockets will be impacted no matter what their policies say if their insured is involved. That is why behind the scenes resolution to this is coming. The carrier I cancled with today mentioned they were working on coverage for my state. If you think UBER fans can be put back in the bottle, you must think 11 million illegal immigrants can all be rounded up and deported. UBER is here to stay. Hopefully like you I hope it makes some changes. I think taxis will be around longer than ice wagons were when Frigidaire hit the market. But perhaps not as long as radio after tv.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

groovyguru said:


> When uber drivers are trolling they are using their personal insurance for coverage. Uber could deny a claim in this case, as they did in SF with that little girl. So the answer to your question is yes.


Those miles are covered with Metromile. Sure UBER can deny the claim. But that does not mean theya re going to end up paying, probably in concert with the personal insurance. Threats of "no coverage" are common. So are payments with non-disclosures.

Oh. not sure if you are a taxid driver nttiaww or a driver. But if you are driver sign up with Metromile tonight and feel the relief. How long will it last? I don't know. Can't be worse than it is, OOPS! was then.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> I did put my money where my mouth is. I signed up with Metromile which provides the coverage that my previous coverage did not. Unfortuately it is not available in all states yet. So the risks you talk of still exist. I agree with you, there is risk. But it is mostly on the Driver. And I appreciate your concern for TNC drivers.
> 
> Any PAX will either be covered by UBER or even the private coverage. It has not been decided in any court yet that they do not have to pay. They can say it all they want,that does not make it so. Their deep pockets will be impacted no matter what their policies say if their insured is involved. That is why behind the scenes resolution to this is coming. The carrier I cancled with today mentioned they were working on coverage for my state. If you think UBER fans can be put back in the bottle, you must think 11 million illegal immigrants can all be rounded up and deported. UBER is here to stay. Hopefully like you I hope it makes some changes. I think taxis will be around longer than ice wagons were when Frigidaire hit the market. But perhaps not as long as radio after tv.


If your personal insurer, as most Uber drivers are using, finds out you're driving commercially, they drop you. Period, the ****ing end.

Over to Uber to decide to maybe cover it, if they can't find a way to weasel out of it. To date I haven't read a single story of Uber actually using it's umbrella policy.

What an awesome company, a definite improvement over 'outdated' yellow cabs with their silly mandatory full commercial insurance.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> If your personal insurer, as most Uber drivers are using, finds out you're driving commercially, they drop you. Period, the ****ing end.


Again, I am now covered when UBER is not covering. My new insurance carrier KNOWS I work TNC's. I hope that option to be available to all. And for those where you can get it, you may get all the negative that HAck says if you don't get it. At least check it out and run the numbers. 
I would say most riders think UBEr is an improvement as a platform and with drivers over all, no offense to you. I have had very few question coverage.
So Jets or Giants?


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> Again, I am now covered when UBER is not covering. My new insurance carrier KNOWS I work TNC's. I hope that option to be available to all. And for those where you can get it, you may get all the negative that HAck says if you don't get it. At least check it out and run the numbers.
> I would say most riders think UBEr is an improvement as a platform and with drivers over all, no offense to you. I have had very few question coverage.
> So Jets or Giants?


Good then you're the rare exception to the rule.

Meanwhile, Uber plans on flooding NYC with 10,000 cars this year, and most likely next year as well.

So once we're past the insurance, it becomes a question of why the **** these gypsy cabs are being allowed to massively over saturate markets and destroy preexisting legitimate taxis business.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> Good then you're the rare exception to the rule.
> 
> Meanwhile, Uber plans on flooding NYC with 10,000 cars this year, and most likely next year as well.
> 
> So once we're past the insurance, it becomes a question of why the **** these gypsy cabs are being allowed to massively over saturate markets and destroy preexisting legitimate taxis business.


Free market?


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> Free market?


Nothing free about it unless you're in the position to pay the right people to spit on the working class.

Then you're 'free' to do whatever you want.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> Nothing free about it unless you're in the position to pay the right people to spit on the working class.


What's new?


----------



## groovyguru (Mar 9, 2015)

frndthDuvel said:


> Again, I am now covered when UBER is not covering. My new insurance carrier KNOWS I work TNC's. I hope that option to be available to all. And for those where you can get it, you may get all the negative that HAck says if you don't get it. At least check it out and run the numbers.
> I would say most riders think UBEr is an improvement as a platform and with drivers over all, no offense to you. I have had very few question coverage.
> So Jets or Giants?


Be sure to figure in the .05 or more cents a mile Metromile charges you into your net. I have them for all three of my cars. Great deal. Still wouldn't drive uber, which I did for five months (2100 + rides) in late 2014. Never was a taxi driver, just for your info. Is Metromile charging you 5 cents a mile? or more or less?


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

groovyguru said:


> Be sure to figure in the .05 or more cents a mile Metromile charges you into your net. I have them for all three of my cars. Great deal. Still wouldn't drive uber, which I did for five months (2100 + rides) in late 2014. Never was a taxi driver, just for your info. Is Metromile charging you 5 cents a mile? or more or less?


4.3
32.86 per month
the highest coverages
500 deductible

It is cheaper than my current, oh yeah,recent carrier. Which was a cost for my car whethered I UBERED or not right? So why would I have to include insurance costs into my net? You know, not everybody is here for the absolute net. Some may be here for the cash flow which enables other things. If somebody is here paying for a childs education,and they are willing to drive for whatever their net is, why is it anybody elses business. What is the value of that education to that family? I imagine some drive simply make their car payment so they can go to their real job. One size does not fit all.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

SCdave said:


> This was an interesting point by Vexus:
> 
> _"Again, keep in mind you are the business owner, the clients are your clients, and you pay Uber to facilitate multiple quick and smooth transactions. If they do not, find someone else who will, or start your own business doing something else"_
> 
> ...


Yes, interesting "points." But 2 federal judges have indicated they are going to rule Uber drivers are employees. Just waiting for the written rulings.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Yes, interesting "points." But 2 federal judges have indicated they are going to rule Uber drivers are employees. Just waiting for the written rulings.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/102497727


----------



## groovyguru (Mar 9, 2015)

frndthDuvel said:


> 4.3
> 32.86 per month
> the highest coverages
> 500 deductible
> ...


Huh? If you drive LA you make .90, less Uber take, so .72, less 4.3 cents, so .67ish. That is net. I hope you only drive surge. The 67 ish cents is what you take home to pay for education for your kid. Be sure to put enough away each month to buy yourself another car in 12 to 18 months. And save some of that .67 ish cents for accident deductibles, just in case something happens. And put aside some of that .67ish cents for maintenance, and for car payments. Don't worry about taxes, you don't make enough to have to pay anything.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

groovyguru said:


> Huh? If you drive LA you make .90, less Uber take, so .72, less 4.3 cents, so .67ish. That is net. I hope you only drive surge. The 67 ish cents is what you take home to pay for education for your kid. Be sure to put enough away each month to buy yourself another car in 12 to 18 months. And save some of that .67 ish cents for accident deductibles, just in case something happens. And put aside some of that .67ish cents for maintenance, and for car payments. Don't worry about taxes, you don't make enough to have to pay anything.


I'd be paying insurance ,the same amount,whether I did TNC or not. So I do not include that on my napkin,thanks.
Education has already been paid. Its about the rentals actually. New car,no not just for UBER, 100K warranty. I don't worry about taxes, well not until next October anyway. As in most of the past 30 plus years. Again, not all in the same boat as you. What is your back story, the source of your bittterness other than being screwed by UBER and its price cuts. Your ride total in that few months is impressive. I have not doubt you know and believe in what you are saying. Other than you plant ice you are going to harvest wind.


----------



## groovyguru (Mar 9, 2015)

frndthDuvel said:


> I'd be paying insurance ,the same amount,whether I did TNC or not. So I do not include that on my napkin,thanks.
> Education has already been paid. Its about the rentals actually. New car,no not just for UBER, 100K warranty. I don't worry about taxes, well not until next October anyway. As in most of the past 30 plus years. Again, not all in the same boat as you. What is your back story, the source of your bittterness other than being screwed by UBER and its price cuts. Your ride total in that few months is impressive. I have not doubt you know and believe in what you are saying. Other than you plant ice you are going to harvest wind.


My beef with Uber is all about the rate cut. I was making it on 1.25 a mile with surges. I worked 95 hours or more a week, for five weeks in a row, then would take two days off. My net was $1600+ per week, after gas. $2,000 before gas expense. I really believed in the brand at first. Used a 2010 Benz E350. People loved it. Drove Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Santa Monica... Really enjoyed the gig. But at a net of .72 I threw in the towel. (Tried Plus at first, but not enough rides to make it exciting.) Had some bad experiences, which are the most fun to remember - out of the 2,100 + rides between July and December probably 5% were bad. It's not just about me being screwed, it is about everyone driving being screwed. What is happening with the ubers and lyfts and all the other sharing apps is not good for society. Here's a good article that motivated me to not participate in the "uber way" anymore. http://robertreich.org/post/109894095095


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

groovyguru said:


> My beef with Uber is all about the rate cut. I was making it on 1.25 a mile with surges. I worked 95 hours or more a week, for five weeks in a row, then would take two days off. My net was $1600+ per week, after gas. $2,000 before gas expense. I really believed in the brand at first. Used a 2010 Benz E350. People loved it. Drove Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Santa Monica... Really enjoyed the gig. But at a net of .72 I threw in the towel. (Tried Plus at first, but not enough rides to make it exciting.) Had some bad experiences, which are the most fun to remember - out of the 2,100 + rides between July and December probably 5% were bad. It's not just about me being screwed, it is about everyone driving being screwed. What is happening with the ubers and lyfts and all the other sharing apps is not good for society. Here's a good article that motivated me to not participate in the "uber way" anymore. http://robertreich.org/post/109894095095


Thanks. yeah one of my wife's hero. I certainly have a beef with the rate 60% less than from where I started last year. But like many, it beats being a Walmart greeter! I also think rates will have to go up, background checks will be stiffened. And good drivers like you will be, while not rewarded, at least given the harder choice to drive or not drive. yeah too easy for most to make that decision now. Of course if you need ot buy or sell your home anytime soon you can take some fo the driving load off! LOL


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Yes, interesting "points." But 2 federal judges have indicated they are going to rule Uber drivers are employees. Just waiting for the written rulings.


Unfortunately, the Supreme Fascist Court of The United States will overrule any favorable decision.


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

frndthDuvel said:


> http://www.cnbc.com/id/102497727


I am glad they are giving the upset independent contractors something to hope about... Not sure why you would hope you are considered an employee? I much prefer my own clock.

But the hope will fail. The ability to use my property in any manner I want; in Uber/Lyft's case, I am just a guy, driving a car, and I decided to pick my friend up who agreed to pay me $20 to take him to the airport.

I know, you think somehow someone can step in and legislate that? Yeah no. Good luck.

Is ... I... .. nope; yep, some of you actually are hoping to be considered employees! LMAO! Not even worth spelling out. You want to be classified as employees so every time you drive your friends to the airport you have to get commercial insurance to do so. ****ing idiots I swear.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Vexus said:


> I am glad they are giving the upset independent contractors something to hope about... Not sure why you would hope you are considered an employee? I much prefer my own clock.
> 
> But the hope will fail. The ability to use my property in any manner I want; in Uber/Lyft's case, I am just a guy, driving a car, and I decided to pick my friend up who agreed to pay me $20 to take him to the airport.
> 
> ...


But they're not your friends, so clearly it's all a lie. What you just described is literally a *********.


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

Hack, you are so narrow sighted. The world has put their own view upon how you should live your life and you have wholeheartedly accepted their position.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Vexus said:


> Hack, you are so narrow sighted. The world has put their own view upon how you should live your life and you have wholeheartedly accepted their position.


I'm not a fan of lawless gypsy cabs destroying legitimate business.

Try to mislabel it 'freedom' and 'innovation' if it makes you feel better. It's not.


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

You were one of those guys who called the first cars "horseless carriages". What was the automobile industry before someone came along and made it happen? Did all the horse farmers rejoice in this new technology? Nope, they hated it.

Fact is, taxis are doomed as a service. They will eventually die. You're on the horse side of the argument and it is sad to see you there. Early cars broke rules and had publications about how clean, noise-free, and safe cars were. Come on, who really believed that? Oh yea, you believed it and raged about it to your other horse farmers... on horselesscarriagepeople.net

It is something special when an entire industry is overturned. The big names in cell phones gave way to iPhones and smart phones. But as you know, iPhone is no longer the only guy around; there is plenty of other competition, and that is good. Uber is turning the taxi industry on its weighty head. Pick your side, think 10 years from now - I know I won't be driving under Uber - where will you be? The horse farmer or the car manufacturer?


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

frndthDuvel said:


> Thanks. yeah one of my wife's hero. I certainly have a beef with the rate 60% less than from where I started last year. But like many, it beats being a Walmart greeter! I also think rates will have to go up, background checks will be stiffened. And good drivers like you will be, while not rewarded, at least given the harder choice to drive or not drive. yeah too easy for most to make that decision now. Of course if you need ot buy or sell your home anytime soon you can take some fo the driving load off! LOL


your wife's hero? nasty marxist!!! i love the video where RR talks about making sure jobs go to anyone but white males. THAT'S REAL FAIR!!! withhold sex from your wife till she begs forgiveness for supporting this radical.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Vexus said:


> You were one of those guys who called the first cars "horseless carriages". What was the automobile industry before someone came along and made it happen? Did all the horse farmers rejoice in this new technology? Nope, they hated it.
> 
> Fact is, taxis are doomed as a service. They will eventually die. You're on the horse side of the argument and it is sad to see you there. Early cars broke rules and had publications about how clean, noise-free, and safe cars were. Come on, who really believed that? Oh yea, you believed it and raged about it to your other horse farmers... on horselesscarriagepeople.net
> 
> It is something special when an entire industry is overturned. The big names in cell phones gave way to iPhones and smart phones. But as you know, iPhone is no longer the only guy around; there is plenty of other competition, and that is good. Uber is turning the taxi industry on its weighty head. Pick your side, think 10 years from now - I know I won't be driving under Uber - where will you be? The horse farmer or the car manufacturer?


It's not technology I object to. It's using it to break the law.

Using a cellphone app should in no way give you the right to operate without commercial insurance.

Yellow cabs are about to get an app, I don't object to it.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Vexus said:


> You were one of those guys who called the first cars "horseless carriages". What was the automobile industry before someone came along and made it happen? Did all the horse farmers rejoice in this new technology? Nope, they hated it.
> 
> Fact is, taxis are doomed as a service. They will eventually die. You're on the horse side of the argument and it is sad to see you there. Early cars broke rules and had publications about how clean, noise-free, and safe cars were. Come on, who really believed that? Oh yea, you believed it and raged about it to your other horse farmers... on horselesscarriagepeople.
> 
> It is something special when an entire industry is overturned. The big names in cell phones gave way to iPhones and smart phones. But as you know, iPhone is no longer the only guy around; there is plenty of other competition, and that is good. Uber is turning the taxi industry on its weighty head. Pick your side, think 10 years from now - I know I won't be driving under Uber - where will you be? The horse farmer or the car manufacturer?


my biggest fear for this industry is if the marxists succeed in eliminating the 1099 status. what these santander lease owners don't realize is all of the increased costs will be passed on to the end user and they will still get a small percentage of the pie. they will have less flexibility and their friends and family will pay the same rates they always paid to the cabbie mafia.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> It's not technology I object to. It's using it to break the law.
> 
> Yellow cabs are about to get an app, I don't object to it.


yes.. gotta keep those fees generating for the middleman!!! woohooo... i love boss hog. lets make more rules/laws to protect the public!!! aka nanny state.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> yes.. gotta keep those fees generating for the middleman!!! woohooo... i love boss hog. lets make more rules/laws to protect the public!!! aka nanny state.


You're giving 30% of every ride to Uber.

Are you really this clueless.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> You're giving 30% of every ride to Uber.
> 
> Are you really this clueless.


nope.. i'm not giving any money to anyone except uncle sam.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> nope.. i'm not giving any money to anyone except uncle sam.


Then you don't work for Uber.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Then you don't work for Uber.


please show me where i ever typed that i did? idiot.


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

There is an intelligence threshold which one needs to be above (uber, lol) in order to understand the difference between "give" and "pay" or "work for Uber" and "hire Uber".

@Hackenstein I know it is fun to spit hate but what do you think would make you happy? How does the Yellow Cab app make it ok for you? The cab company gets 70-80% of a driver's income. Are you looking out for the cab company, or the drivers and the passengers? Because the only one who benefits from cab companies are the owners. The workers who do the work wish they paid 30%.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> please show me where i ever typed that i did? idiot.


So you don't work for any 'rideshare' company, which all take a cut (middleman) of your rides.

Strange, with a name like rideshare patriot.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Vexus said:


> There is an intelligence threshold which one needs to be above (uber, lol) in order to understand the difference between "give" and "pay" or "work for Uber" and "hire Uber".
> 
> @Hackenstein I know it is fun to spit hate but what do you think would make you happy? How does the Yellow Cab app make it ok for you? The cab company gets 70-80% of a driver's income. Are you looking out for the cab company, or the drivers and the passengers? Because the only one who benefits from cab companies are the owners. The workers who do the work wish they paid 30%.


I don't spit any hate, I'm an American who works hard and plays by the rules.

The cab company gets around 30% in NYC, depending on what you made that day. They provide the car, insurance, worker's comp, and do all repairs and maintenance.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> So you don't work for any 'rideshare' company, which all take a cut (middleman) of your rides.
> 
> Strange, with a name like rideshare patriot.


i know this will be very difficult for you to grasp but i have two main objectives for participating on this forum. i want what's best for the end user and thusly i support free enterprise business models (not any specific TNC in particular). because of this, i hate the taxi industry and their taxi commissioners that would be better suited models for russia. (throw in the courier companies with them while we are at it)

secondly i hate to see you guys support this clown that is arresting fellow drivers and the one poster who keeps trying to form a union. unfortunately people are too stupid to realize why the rate cut dynamic exist.... it is because of massive unemployment. the answer is not more unemployment!!!! the answer is more opportunities.


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/much-average-cab-driver-make-9448.html

NYC topping $15/hr - of course, that is before taxes. Most drivers getting paid $25k or so.

How can there possibly be people making $50k, $70k, $90k doing Uber on their own when cab drivers only make $25k? Maybe it is because the full-time cab drivers don't realize they could be making so much more doing it by themselves. It is not just 30%, and if it truly is 'only' 30%, there is obviously no motivation to push beyond $13-15/hr.

Can you link to me where you post about the 'rules' everyone is breaking?

If you are a driver, what do you plan to make this year as a taxi driver? Do you have a recent paystub somewhere like everyone else on here is willing to provide? Should we all be jumping to drive for a taxi company because we are too inept to maintain our vehicles, cover ourselves with Aflac, own a car, and obtain insurance on our own? Are you saying we're being screwed because, for 30%, Yellow Cab will buy me a car, pay for my insurance, pay for my worker's comp, maintain and repair my car, let me work my own hours, work any shift I want, never have to report to any superior, and STILL make $50k a year full time? Whereas Uber just charges me ~28% and doesn't give me all those perks?

Ok done for the night bye for now.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> i know this will be very difficult for you to grasp but i have two main objectives for participating on this forum. i want what's best for the end user and thusly i support free enterprise business models (not any specific TNC in particular). because of this, i hate the taxi industry and their taxi commissioners that would be better suited models for russia. (throw in the courier companies with them while we are at it)
> 
> secondly i hate to see you guys support this clown that is arresting fellow drivers and the one poster who keeps trying to form a union. unfortunately people are too stupid to realize why the rate cut dynamic exist.... it is because of massive unemployment. the answer is not more unemployment!!!! the answer is more opportunities.


You support lawless 'enterprise.'

When these app companies add another 20,000 cars in NYC in 2015, as they've stated they plan to do, who benefits.

Not the drivers, they work more for less. There isn't enough business to support that massive over saturation. App companies benefit.



Vexus said:


> http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/much-average-cab-driver-make-9448.html
> 
> NYC topping $15/hr - of course, that is before taxes. Most drivers getting paid $25k or so.
> 
> ...


That number is way low, in my case at least.

I don't report to any superior.

I understand you want the app thing to equal freedom.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> You support lawless 'enterprise.'
> 
> When these app companies add another 20,000 cars in NYC in 2015, as they've stated they plan to do, who benefits.
> 
> ...


first of all, new york is a unique situation. we aren't just talking about nyc, there are actual markets outside of yours believe it or not. but do i support lawless enterprise? when the laws are designed to profit a few at the expense of the general public? these words come to mind:

_But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security._​


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> first of all, new york is a unique situation. we aren't just talking about nyc, there are actual markets outside of yours believe it or not. but do i support lawless enterprise? when the laws are designed to profit a few at the expense of the general public? these words come to mind:
> 
> _But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security._​


Spare me. You want to ride around without commercial insurance. NYC is somewhat unique in that we have the option of Medallion ownership, but the 'rideshare' (*********) routine is the same here as everywhere else.

Commercial insurance and proper regulations in no way usurp. Limiting cab numbers to avoid over saturation doesn't usurp. What does usurp, however, is lack of regulation which allows a private company to profit off of exploiting markets and undercutting legitimate businesses.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Spare me. You want to ride around without commercial insurance. NYC is somewhat unique in that we have the option of Medallion ownership, but the 'rideshare' (*********) routine is the same here as everywhere else.
> 
> Commercial insurance and proper regulations in no way usurp. Limiting cab numbers to avoid over saturation doesn't usurp. What does usurp, however, is lack of regulation which allows a private company to profit off of exploiting markets and undercutting legitimate businesses.


spare you what? my quote? did it offend you? smfh


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> spare you what? my quote? did it offend you? smfh


No offense here. Spare me the nonsensical diatribe about 'usurpation.'


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> NYC is somewhat unique in that we have the option of Medallion ownership, but the 'rideshare' (*********) routine is the same here as everywhere else.


no.. unique in limited land mass. i am not opposed to some sort of fair method for working out this issue. this is not the case for most markets.

but calling the tnc's gypsies is ridiculous..... you missed my whole point from earlier.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> No offense here. Spare me the nonsensical diatribe about 'usurpation.'


do you not recognize the quote?


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Spare me. You want to ride around without commercial insurance. NYC is somewhat unique in that we have the option of Medallion ownership, but the 'rideshare' (*********) routine is the same here as everywhere else.
> 
> Commercial insurance and proper regulations in no way usurp. Limiting cab numbers to avoid over saturation doesn't usurp. What does usurp, however, is lack of regulation which allows a private company to profit off of exploiting markets and undercutting legitimate businesses.


so uber drivers do not have commercial insurance while driving customers?


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> do you not recognize the quote?


Use it where it's applicable.

It's funny/ironic, because usurpation is the perfect descriptor of what uber does.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Use it where it's applicable.
> 
> It's funny/ironic, because usurpation is the perfect descriptor of what uber does.


really? uber is forcing you to pay ridiculous fees and forcing you to follow ridiculous regs in order to block out competition? hmmmm... interesting. how so?


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> so uber drivers do not have commercial insurance while driving customers?


That's right. Nearly all uber drivers use personal insurance, and uber claims it's 'umbrella' policy will kick in if there's a problem.

I've never seen any report of uber utilizing their policy.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Use it where it's applicable.


i sure as hell did.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> really? uber is forcing you to pay ridiculous fees and forcing you to follow ridiculous regs in order to block out competition? hmmmm... interesting. how so?


No, we pay the costs of doing legitimate business. Part of that legitimacy means ensuring public safety to the extent possible, hence the requirement of commercial insurance. Hence a 200 point inspection 3x a year. Yearly mandatory drug testing. Proper background checks. All of it.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> That's right. Nearly all uber drivers use personal insurance, and uber claims it's 'umbrella' policy will kick in if there's a problem.
> 
> I've never seen any report of uber utilizing their policy.


so everyone is lying about uber's million dollars of coverage while there is a pax? LOL... you're desperate now.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> so everyone is lying about uber's million dollars of coverage while there is a pax? LOL... you're desperate now.


No, uber apparently has it, the question is when/if it is ever used.

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/11/14/who-pays-when-ride-share-driver-crashes

https://fortune.com/2014/12/10/how-uber-breaks-the-rules-and-why-you-should-care/


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> No, we pay the costs of doing legitimate business. Part of that legitimacy means ensuring public safety to the extent possible, hence the requirement of commercial insurance. Hence a 200 point inspection 3x a year. Yearly mandatory drug testing. Proper background checks. All of it.


and yet when i come out of the airport i still get some stinky guy whose english is horrendous and drives like sh**? that's a lot of wasted money for such poor service and inflated costs. sorry.. i want the freedom to choose a nicer car and a cool driver that speaks english and doesnt smell like he hasn't bathed in 3 weeks.

but hey... i support your freedom to choose body order cabbie boy cause i love freedom.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> and yet when i come out of the airport i still get some stinky guy whose english is horrendous and drives like sh**? that's a lot of wasted money for such poor service and inflated costs. sorry.. i want the freedom to choose a nicer car and a cool driver that speaks english and doesnt smell like he hasn't bathed in 3 weeks.
> 
> but hey... i support your freedom to choose body order cabbie boy cause i love freedom.


Oh, I'm pretty sure that describes the majority of 'uber' drivers in places where they've slashed the per mile rate.

So, you get that, a car with no yearly inspection requirements, no drug testing, and no commercial insurance. Awesome.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> No, uber apparently has it, the question is when/if it is ever used.


(sorry i can't quote links yet)

2013? really? that is obsolete.

the second link has some errors in the article.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Oh, I'm pretty sure that describes the majority of 'uber' drivers in places where they've slashed the per mile rate.
> 
> So, you get that, a car with no yearly inspection requirements, no drug testing, and no commercial insurance. Awesome.


so you just bashed most of the drivers on this board?


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Oh, I'm pretty sure that describes the majority of 'uber' drivers in places where they've slashed the per mile rate.
> 
> So, you get that, a car with no yearly inspection requirements, no drug testing, and no commercial insurance. Awesome.


i dont need a nanny state to tell me how to discern the safety of a driver... i trust myself.

is it true you guys work 12 hour shifts? how many days a week?


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> i dont need a nanny state to tell me how to discern the safety of a driver... i trust myself.
> 
> is it true you guys work 12 hour shifts? how many days a week?


So tired of people who make the false claim of 'nanny state' in reference to things like proper commercial insurance/ car inspections/ drug testing.

Would you use a cellphone which didn't meet safety standards? Those things are mandated by the big evil government.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...e-companies/wegXpHUBpZHwtUXNHJSf6H/story.html


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> So tired of people who make the false claim of 'nanny state' in reference to things like proper commercial insurance/ car inspections/ drug testing.
> 
> Would you use a cellphone which didn't meet safety standards? Those things are mandated by the big evil government.


im so tired of people that support the nanny state... that doesn't mean i am for anarchy!!! i am all for small limited govt and "rules" to a certain extent. but as i pointed out in numerous other threads.... not rules that benefit middleman oligopolies. i am all for holding guilty parties accountable for their actions though (negligence).

you are all over the place in your scramble to keep your cabbie cabal status quo. i bet you ***** the loudest when you have to pay ten times the cost compared to what you should be able to pay for health care. "spare me"


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> im so tired of people that support the nanny state... that doesn't mean i am for anarchy!!! i am all for small limited govt and "rules" to a certain extent. but as i pointed out in numerous other threads.... not rules that benefit middleman oligopolies. i am all for holding guilty parties accountable for their actions though (negligence).
> 
> you are all over the place in your scramble to keep your cabbie cabal status quo. i bet you ***** the loudest when you have to pay ten times the cost compared to what you should be able to pay for health care. "spare me"


A requirement of commercial insurance is not a nanny state.

What you are describing is absolutely anarchy.

Uber is attempting to become the largest middleman virtual monopoly in the history of mankind.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> A requirement of commercial insurance is not a nanny state.


the requirement for individuals to purchase commercial insurance is going bye bye.. sorry. the free market is jumping in (albeit slowly) and is offering hybrid policies that make sense for the market and reduce cost to the end user.. the riders.

the winners are riders and part time drivers.

the losers are mafia cab filth (middlemen/owners). **fights back tears**


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> What you are describing is absolutely anarchy.


that you think freedom is anarchy tells me you would be much more comfortable in a communist paradise... which one will you choose? cuba? russia? china? i wish you the best!!!


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> that you think freedom is anarchy tells me you would be much more comfortable in a communist paradise... which one will you choose? cuba? russia? china? i wish you the best!!!


I think that anarchy is anarchy. Municipalities are obliged to protect the public. That means commercial insurance.

The fact that people like you need to pretend it equates to communism/marxism/nanny state is concrete proof that I am correct.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Uber is attempting to become the largest middleman virtual monopoly in the history of mankind.


and if i owned a tnc, i would be trying to do the same thing except: "creating barriers to entry for competition, resulting in higher costs to the general public" would not be one of my strategies.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> I think that anarchy is anarchy. Municipalities are obliged to protect the public. That means commercial insurance.
> 
> The fact that people like you need to pretend it equates to communism/marxism/nanny state is concrete proof that I am correct.


uber has commercial insurance while there is a pax. the free market is providing hybrid policies to work with this. we dont need a mafia cab cartel to force us to pay thousands of dollars in waste to do the same thing. admit it.. that is just to keep out competition.

small limited govt is not anarchy.... that you say that is disturbing. we all know you just want to protect your pocketbook.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> and if i owned a tnc, i would be trying to do the same thing except: "creating barriers to entry for competition, resulting in higher costs to the general public" would not be one of my strategies.


Sorry, you can't use that bullshit line in reference to proper commercial insurance.

But it's good to see that you gave up pretending 'uber' is not a monopolistic middleman.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> uber has commercial insurance while there is a pax. the free market is providing hybrid policies to work with this. we dont need a mafia cab cartel to force us to pay thousands of dollars in waste to do the same thing. admit it.. that is just to keep out competition.
> 
> small limited govt is not anarchy.... that you say that is disturbing. we all know you just want to protect your pocketbook.


You're saying nothing. Right wing Libertarian talking points mean nothing.

You're trying to contort necessary things like commercial insurance, car inspections, and drug testing to mean 'big' government, and lack of them to 'efficient' 'small' government.

It's a rather psychotic lie.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Sorry, you can't use that bullshit line in reference to proper commercial insurance.
> 
> But it's good to see that you gave up pretending 'uber' is not a monopolistic middleman.


so uber's commerical insurance is not as good as cabbie commercial insurance? please post your proof... i'd love to see these cabbie insurers' ratings compared to uber's carrier's.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> You're saying nothing. Right wing Libertarian talking points mean nothing.
> 
> You're trying to contort necessary things like commercial insurance, car inspections, and drug testing to mean 'big' government, and lack of them to 'efficient' 'small' government.
> 
> It's a rather psychotic lie.


i am not now nor have i ever been a "libertarian" it doesn't mean some of their ideology isn't correct. but i am not a republican nor a libertarian... i am a paleo-conservative. i love my country and the principles of our founding fathers.

im sorry the new tnc model is hurting your pocketbook i suggest you change, the old model is never coming back.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> i am not now nor have i ever been a "libertarian" it doesn't mean some of their ideology isn't correct. but i am not a republican nor a libertarian... i am a paleo-conservative. i love my country and the principles of our founding fathers.
> 
> im sorry the new tnc model is hurting your pocketbook i suggest you change, the old model is never coming back.


Your nonsensical talking points are Libertarian, and the improperly insured ********* routine is nothing new.

None of this sidestepping regulations bullshit is 'patriotic.'



Rideshare Patriot said:


> so uber's commerical insurance is not as good as cabbie commercial insurance? please post your proof... i'd love to see these cabbie insurers' ratings compared to uber's carrier's.


That's correct, it's not. There's no clear path to how uber's umbrella policy supposedly kicks in. What you have here are people driving commercially with personal insurance.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Your nonsensical talking points are Libertarian, and the improperly insured ********* routine is nothing new.
> 
> None of this sidestepping regulations bullshit is 'patriotic.'


like i previously asked, which communist paradise do you prefer? china? russia? cuba? everything that the nanny state does in those countries is for your safety. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA... you crack me up hammertime.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> so uber's commerical insurance is not as good as cabbie commercial insurance? please post your proof... i'd love to see these cabbie insurers' ratings compared to uber's carrier's.


I see no equivalency to people driving with personal insurance which will be immediately cancelled if it's discovered they are using it for commercial purposes, and legitimate taxis with real commercial insurance.

The uber umbrella policy has to my knowledge never been used, and it's up to uber's discretion whether they want to use it, since they can merely say you should have told your carrier you were driving commercially. Catch-22.

I'm in favor of properly regulated Capitalism. To people like you, that somehow means Communism. The depth of ignorance is staggering.


----------



## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> If your personal insurer, as most Uber drivers are using, finds out you're driving commercially, they drop you. Period, the ****ing end.
> 
> Over to Uber to decide to maybe cover it, if they can't find a way to weasel out of it. To date I haven't read a single story of Uber actually using it's umbrella policy.
> 
> What an awesome company, a definite improvement over 'outdated' yellow cabs with their silly mandatory full commercial insurance.


Full commercial coverage is not going to protect any transportation driver at fault. Drivers under commercial insurance also suffer the consequences of bad judgment.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> I see no equivalency to people driving with personal insurance which will be immediately cancelled if it's discovered they are using it for commercial purposes, and legitimate taxis with real commercial insurance.
> 
> The uber umbrella policy has to my knowledge never been used, and it's up to uber's discretion whether they want to use it, since they can merely say you should have told your carrier you were driving commercially. Catch-22.
> 
> I'm in favor of properly regulated Capitalism. To people like you, that somehow means Communism. The depth of ignorance is staggering.


there seem to be several carriers that are not cancelling drivers, but we all know hybrids are coming soon and some are already in place. when that is available nationwide will you drop your charade?

pardon your ignorance. you are claiming uber's insurance has never been used? please prove that. if we are to believe fellow forum members, they have paid out.

i don't trumpet the cause of "capitalism"... i am a for free enterprise and small limited govt, i am a paleo-conservative!!!

and for what it's worth, in my opinion communism is not an ideology but a strategy... but i digress.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Full commercial coverage is not going to protect any transportation driver at fault. Drivers under commercial insurance also suffer the consequences of bad judgment.


This is about passenger protection.



Rideshare Patriot said:


> there seem to be several carriers that are not cancelling drivers, but we all know hybrids are coming soon and some are already in place. when that is available nationwide will you drop your charade?
> 
> pardon your ignorance. you are claiming uber's insurance has never been used? please prove that. if we are to believe fellow forum members, they have paid out.
> 
> ...


I haven't seen any reports of uber's insurance paying out in regards to injury. As far as I can tell, it all goes to court.

The psuedonitellectual term thing is frankly nauseating.


----------



## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> This is about passenger protection.


Shouldn't be an issue. Uber/Lyft drivers carry commercial insurance. Legitimacy of structure notwithstanding.

I do expect at some point of accidents that the system will rightfully revert to each TNC driver being mandated for full commercial coverage, but we'll see.



> I haven't seen any reports of uber's insurance paying out in regards to injury. As far as I can tell, it all goes to court.
> 
> The psuedonitellectual term thing is frankly nauseating.


All entirely speculation on your part, of course.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Shouldn't be an issue. Uber/Lyft drivers carry commercial insurance. Legitimacy of structure notwithstanding.
> 
> I do expect at some point of accidents that the system will rightfully revert to each TNC driver being mandated for full commercial coverage, but we'll see.
> 
> All entirely speculation on your part, of course.


No, they don't. They carry personal insurance for the most part.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/ubers-yawning-insurance-gap#.shjvprQZz5

Uber has an umbrella policy which may or may not kick in.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> This is about passenger protection.
> 
> I haven't seen any reports of uber's insurance paying out in regards to injury. As far as I can tell, it all goes to court.
> 
> The psuedonitellectual term thing is frankly nauseating.


which term is giving you so much grief... i'll try to explain it to you.

re: uber's "paying out" _you haven't seen it so it doesn't exist? LOL but you just assume it all goes to court. LOL

i'll overlook this since you are nauseated at the moment.


----------



## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Hackenstein said:


> No, they don't. They carry personal insurance for the most part.


Not in NYC and not with pax in vehicle. ALL TNC drivers are commercially insured when pax are in vehicle.



> http://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/ubers-yawning-insurance-gap#.shjvprQZz5
> 
> Uber has an umbrella policy which may or may not kick in.


The risks that most drivers DO have do not involve pax and insurance, but drivers voiding their personal policies. Has nothing to do with the TNC companies commercial coverage.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> which term is giving you so much grief... i'll try to explain it to you.
> 
> re: uber's "paying out" _you haven't seen it so it doesn't exist? LOL but you just assume it all goes to court. LOL
> 
> i'll overlook this since you are nauseated at the moment.


I've seen some accounts on here of uber's policy paying for damages to drivers' cars etc, but nothing related to personal injury of passengers.

Then there's the issue of whether uber's policy even meets local standards, you'd have to assume in many cases it doesn't, since in Alaska for example they couldn't comply with the local insurance requirements. If the umbrella policy covered it it wouldn't have been an issue. Same holds true for Portland and many other places. Uber wouldn't even agree to drug testing drivers in Alaska. This company is unreal.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> I've seen some accounts on here of uber's policy paying for damages to drivers' cars etc, but nothing related to personal injury of passengers.
> 
> Then there's the issue of whether uber's policy even meets local standards, you'd have to assume in many cases it doesn't, since in Alaska for example they couldn't comply with the local insurance requirements. If the umbrella policy covered it it wouldn't have been an issue. Same holds true for Portland and many other places. Uber wouldn't even agree to drug testing drivers in Alaska. This company is unreal.


correct, the commercial policy does not cover driver's medical. we actually agree finally!!! but that's not really your concern is it? are you that altruistic that you are worried about uber drivers' health? and i apologize for the big word... run to the bathroom and chug some pepto real quick. **my bad**


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> correct, the commercial policy does not cover driver's medical. we actually agree finally!!! but that's not really your concern is it? are you that altruistic that you are worried about uber drivers' health? and i apologize for the big word... run to the bathroom and chug some pepto real quick. **my bad**


I didn't mention drivers' medical coverage. Have fun trolling.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> I didn't mention drivers' medical coverage. Have fun trolling.


yes.. i tried to correct that... i actually thought you made an intelligent comment for once. LOL please forgive me.

the commercial policy does cover pax medical.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> unfortunately people are too stupid to realize why the rate cut dynamic exist.... it is because of massive unemployment. the answer is not more unemployment!!!! the answer is more opportunities.





Rideshare Patriot said:


> uber's "paying out" _you haven't seen it so it doesn't exist? LOL but you just assume it all goes to court.


Uber insurance refused payout in Herrera vs Uber. It asked Herrera to collect from the Drivers insurance. At that time, Uber's policy was fraudulently secondary to Drivers' personal car insurance, which always exclude coverage for "Vehicle For Hire" activity.
Herrera 
http://scribd.com/doc/200542660
Uber's response
http://scribd.com/doc/212005329
Uber has since March 2014 made the policy Primary. But for the first three Qs 2014, Uber & Lyft combined paid ac total $18.7M in premiums.


chi1cabby said:


> For reference, Uber & Lyft combined paid $18.7M in premiums to James River Insr during the first 3Qs, 2014.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/is-this-premium-enough.8557/#post-104349
> *So Uber fraudulently cost shifted $17.28M in premiums in Dec 2014 alone, while Uber & Lyft paid $18.7M total in premiums for first 9 months of 2014!*


https://uberpeople.net/threads/metromile-insurance-now-available.15252/#post-206816


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

chicabby,

policy has changed since herrera.... who ultimately paid out on it? did you research that?


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> policy has changed since herrera.


I know. It changed in March 2014, as I stated above.


Rideshare Patriot said:


> who ultimately paid out on it?


Case is still in litigation.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> I know. It changed in March 2014, as I stated above.
> 
> Case is still in litigation.


so it really doesn't apply to my previous comments.

still in litigation.. can you prove this?


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Vexus said:


> I am glad they are giving the upset independent contractors something to hope about... Not sure why you would hope you are considered an employee? I much prefer my own clock.
> 
> But the hope will fail. The ability to use my property in any manner I want; in Uber/Lyft's case, I am just a guy, driving a car, and I decided to pick my friend up who agreed to pay me $20 to take him to the airport.
> 
> ...


RELAX, as an employee, you can still work your own schedule. There are no laws under the employee classification stating you must work 9 to 5.

However, as an employee, you will be compensated if injured in an accident, paid a minimum wage, rceive health care and get unemployment.

But the biggest problem with your argument is that you are not driving friends, you are driving strangers for hire.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> so it really doesn't apply to my previous comments.


I'm not sure what previous comment you are referring to. I linked the Herrera case, since you & @Hackenstein were arguing over adequacy of Uber's Insurance Policy.


Rideshare Patriot said:


> still in litigation.. can you prove this?


http://webaccess.sftc.org/Scripts/M...ME=ValidateCaseNumber&ARGUMENTS=-ACGC13536211
You can wade through that, if you are so inclined.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> RELAX, as an employee, you can still work your own schedule. There are no laws under the employee classification stating you must work 9 to 5.
> 
> However, as an employee, you will be compensated if injured in an accident, paid a minimum wage, rceive health care and get unemployment.
> 
> But the biggest problem with your argument is that you are not driving friends, you are driving strangers for hire.


sign me up for the rainbows and unicorns!!! let me guess.. you voted for obama?

_if you like your doctor you can keep em. _hahahahaha


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> *unicorns!*


Ever hear of the *UberUNICORN?*


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> I'm not sure what previous comment you are referring to. I linked the Herrera case, since you & @Hackenstein were arguing over adequacy of Uber's Insurance Policy.
> 
> You can wade through that, if you are so inclined.


it appears there is a request for dismissal with prejudice by plaintiff's counsel? would that mean they settled?


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> it appears there is a request for dismissal with prejudice by plaintiff's counsel?


No that request is from a third party, Marianne Wagner ( the name sounds familiar, but she is not associated with this lawsuit), who inserted herself into this lawsuit.

Edit: Marianne Wagner was the Driver of the other car involved in this accident.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> No that request is from a third party, Marianne Wagner ( the name sounds familiar, but she is not associated with this lawsuit), who inserted herself into this lawsuit.
> 
> Edit: Marianne Wagner was the Driver of the other car involved in this accident.


​it says:

_Dismiss ONLY the Complaint of Plaintiffs' Jason A. Herrera and Nikolintzes as to all Defendants. Each Party to bear own costs and fees._​filed by Herrera's attorney Philip A Segal.

then Wagner's attorney, Suizi Lin, requested dismissal which was filed last month.


​


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> ​it says:
> 
> _Dismiss ONLY the Complaint of Plaintiffs' Jason A. Herrera and Nikolintzes as to all Defendants. Each Party to bear own costs and fees._​filed by Herrera's attorney Philip A Segal.
> 
> then Wagner's attorney, Suizi Lin, requested dismissal which was filed last month.



That implies a settlement was reached quietly behind the scenes.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> That implies a settlement was reached quietly behind the scenes.


that's how i read it.


----------



## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

gregthedriver said:


> Why in the hell are people doing this job.


Because we love you Greg. That's why. BTW how's Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!!!


----------



## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Vexus said:


> @UberHammer
> You're right, I calculated the fees twice on accident. Stayed up all night and I apologize to anyone who based anything off that. I'm not re-doing the calculation - I'll take your word for it here - but that means $19.52 profit = $2.99 in taxes.
> 
> For everyone thinking I am getting ****ed by Uber; it is $96 I didn't have before. The operating expense of my Prius is 0.115 cents per mile for the night. That is $3.25 daily insurance,oil,maintenance I calculated + $12 gas. Of course eventually I will calculate this on a weekly level.
> ...


Alllllll thiiiiiiis tilllllll deactivation the end...


----------



## Vexus (Mar 8, 2015)

If I were to be deactivated - and considering the number of drivers vs. the handful complaining here, I think I am in good shape - I would not mind a bit. I would sell my used car for more than I bought it for, and proceed down life happily. No more would I troll a forum like this.


----------



## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

So if this forum is "beneath you", why are still posting here. Slumming?


----------



## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Happily ever after !!!!!!!!


----------



## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

After what?


----------



## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Seriously you are living under the gun can be deactivated for no fault of you own 
You need to leverage the only thing you can ( organize )


----------



## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

After 


DrJeecheroo said:


> After what?


deactivation he said


----------



## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> After
> 
> deactivation he said


 Who said?


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> sign me up for the rainbows and unicorns!!! let me guess.. you voted for obama?
> 
> _if you like your doctor you can keep em. _hahahahaha


And you would guess wrong.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> your wife's hero? nasty marxist!!! i love the video where RR talks about making sure jobs go to anyone but white males. THAT'S REAL FAIR!!! withhold sex from your wife till she begs forgiveness for supporting this radical.


Karl Marx was one of the greatest leaders and philosophers the world has known.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

John Anderson said:


> Karl Marx was one of the greatest leaders and philosophers the world has known.


it wouldn't surprise me if marx plagarized many of his ideas... that said, communism isnt an ideology, it is a strategy of conquest. it dupes its followers then offers them misery, if not genocide. at the top levels communism and facism are very similar.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> it wouldn't surprise me if marx plagarized many of his ideas... that said, communism isnt an ideology, it is a strategy of conquest. it dupes its followers then offers them misery, if not genocide. at the top levels communism and facism are very similar.


Yes, but fascism offers only misery for the majority. Look at America's south as proof.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

John Anderson said:


> Yes, but fascism offers only misery for the majority. Look at America's south as proof.


and communism in real practice doesn't?

and please explain your second claim, you lost me there.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> and communism in real practice doesn't?
> 
> and please explain your second claim, you lost me there.


fas·cism
ˈfaSHˌizəm/
_noun_

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy; The south.

(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

_often capitalized_ *:* a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

*:* a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army _fascism_ and brutality - J. W. Aldridge>
- *fas·cist* \-shist _also_ -sist\ _noun or adjective_ _often capitalized_
- *fas·cis·tic* \fa-ˈshis-tik _also_ -ˈsis-\ _adjective_ _often capitalized_
- *fas·cis·ti·cal·ly* \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ _adverb_ _often capitalized_


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> fas·cism
> ˈfaSHˌizəm/
> _noun_
> 
> ...


What has fascism got to do with ride sharing?


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

John Anderson said:


> fas·cism
> ˈfaSHˌizəm/
> _noun_
> 
> ...





elelegido said:


> What has fascism got to do with ride sharing?


for the workers: low pay and no say. Since 1981, from the govt: low pay and no say.
You can sit around and not complain, but before you know it, your environment will have changed. Your right to complain will have gone as will your right to quit.

We live in a world of give and take. The more you give, the more that will be taken. You have to man up at some point before you have nothing else to give but more will still be required.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

John Anderson said:


> fas·cism
> ˈfaSHˌizəm/
> _noun_
> 
> ...


i see where you got the definition, you may want to cite something other than the one google spoon feeds the sheeple. also, i see you added "the south" at the end of the first version of the definition. so you are saying the south is/was fascist? interesting.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> for the workers: low pay and no say. Since 1981, from the govt: low pay and no say.
> You can sit around and not complain, but before you know it, your environment will have changed. Your right to complain will have gone as will your right to quit.
> 
> We live in a world of give and take. The more you give, the more that will be taken. You have to man up at some point before you have nothing else to give but more will still be required.


Fascism does not equal low pay. You're getting political ideology mixed up with economics.

The economic policies of the Hitler era led to Germany having the fastest recovery from the Great Depression, the fastest growth in net income, and the quickest elimination of unemployment.

You're wrong on two counts:

- Net household income grew under Hitler, very quickly. Low pay? No.
- Its economic performance had nothing to do with fascist social policy, but with economic policy.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

elelegido said:


> Fascism does not equal low pay. You're getting political ideology mixed up with economics.
> 
> The economic policies of the Hitler era led to Germany having the fastest recovery from the Great Depression, the fastest growth in net income, and the quickest elimination of unemployment.
> 
> ...


Jews of the hitler era: no pay, no say.
Gypsies of the hitler era: no pay, no say.
Gays of the hitler era: no pay,no say.

K
Blacks, Italians, Irish, Mexicans of the USA pre new deal: low to no pay, no say.
Blacks and Mexicans following new deal: (in the south) low pay, no say.

Blacks and Mexicans during civil rights era which ushered in the drug war: forced prison labor, no to low pay before, during, and after incarceration, and never any say -- not even today.

Racism, low/no pay, and no say = the USA but the south In particular, and hitler's Germany.

John Anderson, MBA, MS Industrial Engineering, PHD in Organizational Behavior candidate (GaTech)


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

John Anderson said:


> Jews of the hitler era: no pay, no say.
> Gypsies of the hitler era: no pay, no say.
> Gays of the hitler era: no pay,no say.
> 
> ...


so you see or experience a lot of fascist racism in atlanta georgia these days?


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> so you see or experience a lot of fascist racism in atlanta georgia these days?


Every waking moment. Every business and corporate environment has the same exact plantation confederate theme, even if it's black or Mexican owned. Blacks/negropeans can be equally as fascist as some non-whites were in nazi Germany.


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

John Anderson said:


> Every waking moment. Every business and corporate environment has the same exact plantation confederate theme, even if it's black or Mexican owned. Blacks/negropeans can be equally as fascist as some non-whites were in nazi Germany.


so you are claiming reverse discrimination via modern corporations with the majority now being the victims?


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> R E V E R S E DISCRIMINATION is at an all time low!!! The standard regular type is at an all time high.
> 
> White unemployment is near zero, while black unemployment is 11%. That's the national average, in the south it's a much more desperate situation. Low pay is even more severe especially with the plantationesque office scenery.
> 
> FASCISM


Discussions of this caliber are more within Sly's realm. @Sly, where are you when you're needed?


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

John Anderson said:


> R E V E R S E DISCRIMINATION is at an all time low!!! The standard regular type is at an all time high.
> 
> White unemployment is near zero, while black unemployment is 11%. That's the national average, in the south it's a much more desperate situation. Low pay is even more severe especially with the plantationesque office scenery.
> 
> FASCISM


we have massive unemployment across the nation... do you even know what the rate is?


----------



## Rideshare Patriot (Mar 11, 2015)

someone needs to tell one of obama's senior advisors reverse discrimination is 0%. LOL yeah right!!!


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

Rideshare Patriot said:


> someone needs to tell one of obama's senior advisors reverse discrimination is 0%. LOL yeah right!!!


He was simply saying that the government normally puts the money out into companies with the usual white male power structure. All others must pay taxes into this and receive only minimal benefit. For example, black professionals who are highly educated can only expect to receive 65% of pay and have the same unemployment rate as white men with no degree at all and possibly a felony. However, they must pay into the tax system that is wholly hostile to them.

That's fascism.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

John Anderson said:


> He was simply saying that the government normally puts the money out into companies with the usual white male power structure. All others must pay taxes into this and receive only minimal benefit. For example, black professionals who are highly educated can only expect to receive 65% of pay and have the same unemployment rate as white men with no degree at all and possibly a felony. However, they must pay into the tax system that is wholly hostile to them.
> 
> That's fascism.


What is this, a boring bar stewards' convention? STFU already! Both of you.

Holy shit...


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

elelegido said:


> What is this, a boring bar stewards' convention? STFU already! Both of you.
> 
> Holy shit...


El Elegido, why the anger?


----------



## UPModerator (Jul 14, 2014)

No more politics please unless it directly relates to driving and the threads topic.


----------



## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

UPModerator said:


> No more politics please unless it directly relates to driving and the threads topic.


Ok, was only trying to illustrate how Uber is like an oppressive system.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102503684


----------

