# Reporting Insurance Fraud in Toronto and Ottawa



## LPlaisir (Mar 25, 2015)

I heard that taxi drivers in Toronto and Ottawa are taking pictures and writing down license plates of Uberx drivers and reporting them to the Insurance Fraud hotline. What effect will this have? I am really scared of insurance fraud. I know that if you get kicked off your insurance, it is next to impossible to get coverage again. I am also confused by the insurance info provided by Uber. They say that if the Uberx driver doesn't have the proper insurance (commercial in my area) they don't have to cover you in case of accident. Does that mean most uberx drivers have no insurance at all? That doesn't make sense because they ask for a copy of the driver's insurance when they apply to be a driver????? This is very confusing. Don't think it is worth the risk. What happens if neither the personal nor Uber's insurance covers an accident? Can the driver be sued and lose his house etc?


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## LPlaisir (Mar 25, 2015)

Is Canada different? I read a post here that took screen shots of the Uber insurance agreement and it said that if you don't have the legal insurance required by your region, your contract with them is terminated. I will look for the post and try to put it here


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

LAndreas said:


> Canada may be different, my comment certainly is applicable for the US, but it's been Uber's modus operandi in all markets they've entered, so if Canada is different it would be because of a recent agreement with your regulator.


POST # 4 /@LAndreas : Going Interna-
tional with
Facts and Foreign Flair. Well done, sir!


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## LPlaisir (Mar 25, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> From what I hear they don't have the staff to do any major damage. And for Uber it's a small drop in the bucket for them money wise. What could be more alarming is if the City starts to call up nark lines for insurance companies and leave anonymous tips on said driver was working doing Uber. That could stop things in their tracks. This would be an underhanded thing to do by the city but guess what it's no different than what Uber is doing.





djino said:


> Although I'm still in the midst of waiting for my Backcheck to complete to become a Uber partner, I have logged into my Partners account to view the Insurance info.
> 
> "*Insurance
> 
> ...


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

LAndreas said:


> So yeah, super asinine move by the cabbies, but unfortunately, *your insurance Co might terminate you upon receiving such a tip* and it can be shown that you operate outside it's "personal" use policy terms.


Doesn't look asinine to me. Looks like the cabbies want Uber drivers to play by the same rulz they have to play by.


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## djino (Mar 15, 2015)

Yeah, Uber Canada's insurance policy is a big catch 22.

I don't think its a huge assumption to make that at least 90% of UberX drivers here in Canada are driving with a non-commercial policy and/or a Personal Policy that does not allow for livery use. Unlike the USA, Canada doesn't have any Insurance companies like Metromile, Geiko, etc. that are working with Uber drivers to make sure that they are insured.

Furthermore, here in Canada, Uber's Insurance is Contingent in all cases (with or without PAX). So you will ALWAYS need to first be denied by your personal insurance, before Uber's coverage becomes valid for you. Unlike Uber USA where its primary when you have a PAX in the vehicle.

The only likely reason your personal insurance wouldn't cover you in an Uber accident is because they see providing Uber services as livery use. So once they have denied your claim and cancelled your policy, Uber can also deny your claim because you didn't tell your insurance you were doing P2P transportation services, which means you are in breach of the Uber Canada agreement.

---

In the end if your Canadian Insurance policy doesn't cover livery use, then you are at high risk driving for Uber and are driving "bareback" as @scrurbscrud puts it.

---

Having said that, and as I'm still waiting for my backcheck to complete, I have been calling anonymously to different Insurance companies in Canada and after stating that I'd like to use my car for "Car pooling to work" and for "Driving to different sites around the city" for compensation, "National Bank of Canada Insurance" said they do have a personal policy that can cover this. But again, am I walking a fine line by not specifically mentioning "Uber" and only mentioning the Uber related activities I'd be doing with my vehicle, *would you agree*? I dunno.

I'm waiting for my Backcheck to complete before I contact National Bank and get an actual personal quote. I'll report later on what I get.

djino
"Though note that I'm in Quebec, and insurance in Quebec is MUCH cheaper than in other provinces in Canada since body injury claims are handled by the province and not the Insurance Company. So a personal quote I obtain, could be much lower than what others outside Quebec will obtain"


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

I wouldn't want a cabbie to rat me out to my insurance company for Ubering. Let us know if you hear of anyone actually getting called out by their insurance companies from such attempts. If it's an insurance company funded hotline, I'd expect there might be actions. If it's a government funded hotline, it probably doesn't mean squat.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

LPlaisir said:


> Is Canada different?





djino said:


> Yeah, Uber Canada's insurance policy is a big catch 22.


*Uber's US Insurance*:
http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurancepolicy
*How does this policy work?*
"From the moment a driver accepts a trip to conclusion, *primary liability coverage *is in place and applies up to $1 million coverage per incident. Specifically, this *policy is primary to your personal auto insurance policy* but remains excess to any commercial auto insurance you may have for the vehicle.1"
*Uber's Canada Insurance:*
http://blog.uber.com/CanadaXSafety
"Every ride on the uberX platform in Canada is backed by *US$5,000,000 of contingent auto liability insurance *covering bodily injury and property damage.
*Canada: Contingent
US: Primary*


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Additionally per @djino 
https://uberpeople.net/threads/hi-newbie-from-ottawa-canada.15932/#post-216728

"I have logged into my Partners account to view the Insurance info.

"*Insurance

Vehicle Insurance. As an express condition of doing business with the Company, and at your sole expense, you agree to maintain current during the life of thisAgreement, third-party auto insurance of the types andamounts specified herein for every vehicle used to perform services under this Agreement. You acknowledge that it is yourresponsibility, prior to your commencement of the P2P transportation service, to: A) inform your insurer of theP2P transportation service you provide; and B) ensurethat your insurance policy provides coverage for the P2P transportation service youprovide. If you have any questions or concerns about the scope or applicability of your insurance coverage, it is your responsibility, not the Company's, to resolve them. Youacknowledge that failure to secure or maintainsatisfactory insurance coverage shall be deemed a material breach of thisAgreement and shall result in the immediate May 2014 6suspension of the Agreement and the loss of your right to receive Requests under thisAgreement. *
*i. Coverage Specifications. To perform services under this Agreement, you must maintain automobile insurance with coverage of at least the minimum coverage required by national, state or local law.*"


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

LAndreas said:


> By hurting a mis-informed, naive sapp, who is probably hard up anyway, and now faces being uninsurable and unable to accept many alternate future employment opportunities that would require him/her to commute to work? You, Sir, are a very sad little man.


Well, let's not talk about the cabbies being starved out by your poor business ethics, K?

People who have to lie to their insurance companies in order to fulfill their part time cabbie fantasies are not my favorite folk. Especially when others, such as cab drivers, are forced to comply.

You should be forced as well. Equal under the law.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

LAndreas said:


> Then summon your courage, if you have any, and take on the big guy, Uber. Don't rat out the little guy who most likely has been deceived and sincerely doesn't know better.


I don't promote anyone to drive uninsured. It's just a bad idea in general. But if my living depended on unequal treatment under the law, you can bet I'd be protecting my living no matter who went down in the process or how if it was legal to report them and get them cancelled.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

LAndreas said:


> There are two components to this, and they are the same for all markets Uber operates in:


Actually that's wrong.

*UberX U.S. Insurance*
http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurancepolicy
Uber's Insurance for UberX in the US is markedly different than it's *Insurance for UberX / UberPOP in overseas markets.*
The US Insurance is *PRIMARY*. That means the liability coverage it provides is not reliant on Drivers car insurance denying coverage.
Uber's Non-US Insurance, except UK, for UberX/UberPOP, is *CONTINGENT.* That means that ANY claim (yes, even an injured pax) has to *FIRST* file a claim with the Driver's personal car insurance. (Personal Car Insurance policies explicitly exclude coverage for Vehicle For Hire activity, even in Canada.) If the claim is denied, only then can the claim be filed with Uber's Insurance.
*So Uber's Overseas Insurance for UberX / UberPOP is Fraudulently Inadequate.
Australia | Uber's Insurance Policy
Canada | Uber's Insurance Policy*
https://uberpeople.net/threads/toro...own-on-uberx-drivers.16883/page-5#post-232490

Edit: Uber has not posted any blogs explaining it's Insurance for European UberX/UberPOP, except for UK. But it's a safe bet to assume that it is also Contingent & Secondary Insurance.
*UberPOP | Paris*
http://blog.uber.com/zoom-uberPOP-Paris_EN









And a German High Court ruled that Uber's Insurance was "Insufficient".
https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-banned-in-germany-by-frankfurt-court.2885/page-2#post-216141


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## LPlaisir (Mar 25, 2015)

This is all very confusing. In plain language does this mean that if uberx drivers don't have commercial insurance Uber's insurance will not cover them as well?


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## LPlaisir (Mar 25, 2015)

But if my insurance doesn't cover me and Uber cancels my contract for not having the proper insurance does anyone get covered? I read the terms and conditions for Uber passengers and it says that they aren't responsible for anything, the driver is.


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## djino (Mar 15, 2015)

You basically need to look for Personal Insurance that will cover rideshare activities (livery) <-- Good luck lol OR get commercial insurance and pay extremely high premiums that make it not worth driving for UberX lol.

Or you can take the approach that most Canadian Uber drivers are likely taking and just cross your fingers that you do not get into an accident with PAX.

Uber on the other hand will approve your Canadian insurance document regardless of the type of coverage you obtain. lol 

djino


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

LAndreas said:


> Not you, yes. Your rider, once he's in your car, is covered.


Wrong Again!
Please stop giving wrong information to Canadian Drivers. Even an injured rider would have to FIRST file a claim with the Driver's insurance, since Uber_Canada's Insurance is Contingent, and Not Primary as it is in the US.


LPlaisir said:


> This is all very confusing. In plain language does this mean that if uberx drivers don't have commercial insurance Uber's insurance will not cover them as well?


Firstly, Uber's policy in Canada is Contingent, not Primary.
Secondly, your Partnership Agreement with Uber_Canada requires you to 
* B) ensure that your insurance policy provides coverage for the P2P transportation service you provide.*

So, contractually UberX Drivers without P2P Insurance in Canada Cannot rely on Uber_Canada's Insurance to cover their liability. BUT here's the kicker, there is no such thing as P2P Insurance in Canada! 
That being said, I doubt that Uber_Canada would refuse to cover a drivers liability for most accidents as that would blow the cover off it's Insurance shenanigans. But what if it is major accident involving serious injury to passengers or third parties? Would Uber_Canada stand behind the driver then? It's clearly not contractually obligated to do so!


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## LPlaisir (Mar 25, 2015)

That is scary. So Uber will approve your insurance documents even if they don't cover transporting people but they will also cancel you if you get into an accident and don't have insurance that covers transporting people. That makes no sense.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Crash leaves Toronto UberX driver confused about insurance*

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...surance.html?referrer=http://news.google.com/

Please read this thread:
*Judge sides with Toronto in battle with Uber over policy disclosure*
https://uberpeople.net/threads/judg...attle-with-uber-over-policy-disclosure.16202/


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

LPlaisir said:


> That is scary. So Uber will approve your insurance documents even if they don't cover transporting people but they will also cancel you if you get into an accident and don't have insurance that covers transporting people. That makes no sense.


Cloudy issue at best. Don't know why any driver would take that chance and put themselves in even potential jeopardy. The money ain't that good.


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## djino (Mar 15, 2015)

LPlaisir said:


> That is scary. So Uber will approve your insurance documents even if they don't cover transporting people but they will also cancel you if you get into an accident and don't have insurance that covers transporting people. That makes no sense.


 Agreed.

I'm hoping I get a good personal quote from National Bank Insurance, if not or if they later tell me that they won't provide coverage for P2P transportation, then I'll probably contact Uber and send them a formal email requesting information on which Insurance Companies in Canada provide Uber/Rideshare coverage. Maybe even take a trip to the Ottawa Uber office with a buddy who could record my conversation while I ask the Uber reps there about my Insurance concerns. And perhaps upload it to Youtube/The Media if need be.

I honestly think that this issue needs more media attention so that Uber/Local governments can act. This is taking too long for things to be figured out.

djino


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

djino said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I'm hoping I get a good personal quote from National Bank Insurance, if not or if they later tell me that they won't provide coverage for P2P transportation, then I'll probably contact Uber and send them a formal email requesting information on which Insurance Companies in Canada provide Uber/Rideshare coverage. Maybe even take a trip to the Ottawa Uber office with a buddy who could record my conversation while I ask the Uber reps there about my Insurance concerns. And perhaps upload it to Youtube/The Media if need be.
> 
> ...


There is no question that in the U.S. Uber/Lyft takes personal auto policies that are technically voided by drivers doing livery as valid insurance. It's not.

That's where this charade needs to be stopped. At the source of the problem, *the TNC companies.*


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## LPlaisir (Mar 25, 2015)

djino said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I'm hoping I get a good personal quote from National Bank Insurance, if not or if they later tell me that they won't provide coverage for P2P transportation, then I'll probably contact Uber and send them a formal email requesting information on which Insurance Companies in Canada provide Uber/Rideshare coverage. Maybe even take a trip to the Ottawa Uber office with a buddy who could record my conversation while I ask the Uber reps there about my Insurance concerns. And perhaps upload it to Youtube/The Media if need be.
> 
> ...


I just called the National Bank Insurance and they told me that they don't insure Uberx drivers. Oh well.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

LPlaisir said:


> I just called the National Bank Insurance and they told me that they don't insure Uberx drivers. Oh well.


For the drivers who want to go the extra mile on their own I'd expect Canada has commercial auto brokers who are capable of locating suitable commercial insurance for the gig. Many drivers here have been able to locate such for $3800-5000 a year. Can't imagine the insurance industry there is that far behind the curve. Get some commercial broker recommendations from the personal auto agents. They should easily be able to locate them for you.

Nice part is there are some great commercial and hybrids on the hopefully near term horizons for TNC drivers as well. Just hope your rates hold up high enough to justify driving.


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## djino (Mar 15, 2015)

LPlaisir said:


> I just called the National Bank Insurance and they told me that they don't insure Uberx drivers. Oh well.


I think all Insurance companies will say they don't have any personal policies when specially using the word "Uber". They've seen the media and know what its about.

You may need to be more creative with your wording and state things like I did such as "Carpooling" and "Driving around to different places" for "compensation". See what they have to offer.

Desjardins Insurance mentioned they do have polices that cover the above for "existing" clients. National Bank Insurance mentioned they do for any client.

---

I'm waiting for my Uber backcheck to complete before calling back both insurers above to get a personal quote. If the cost is decent, I'll request to see the insurance documents to see if they mention anything that says "livery use is excluded". If I don't see any of that, then I'll likely make the switch to that policy and report back here.

If I'm not successful with the above, then that's when I'll go back to Uber and do as I mentioned above.

djino


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)




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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

"You may need to be more creative with your wording and state things like I did such as "Carpooling" and "Driving around to different places" for "compensation". See what they have to offer."
Creative wording is what uber does that gives the driver a false sense of security when it comes to insurance. If you transport pax for $$, you need commercial insurance.

BTW.. How is that metromile insurance working out for those driving in the west coast. Doesn't sound like bad idea for those driving uber/lyft part time.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

djino said:


> I think all Insurance companies will say they don't have any personal policies when specially using the word "Uber". They've seen the media and know what its about.
> 
> You may need to be more creative with your wording and state things like I did such as "Carpooling" and "Driving around to different places" for "compensation". See what they have to offer.
> 
> ...


You really need to sit down and think out what you are writing. "Carpooling" "rideshare" "driving around to different places" do not equal Ubering.

You are trying to rationalize your actions.


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## LPlaisir (Mar 25, 2015)

Did everyone see that 2 uber drivers pleaded guilty in court in Ottawa. What does this mean? Are there going to be more charges against Uberx drivers in Ontario?


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## djino (Mar 15, 2015)

LPlaisir said:


> Did everyone see that 2 uber drivers pleaded guilty in court in Ottawa. What does this mean? Are there going to be more charges against Uberx drivers in Ontario?


Yeah I did :S .

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/two-uber-drivers-plead-guilty-amid-ottawa-crackdown-1.2299709

Its not looking good here in Ottawa. Although the head of Uber Ontario is still optimistic as per the above Video. They are also looking into Insurance options for Canada.

---

It is now Day 15, and I'm still waiting for my backcheck to complete. lol. I wonder if they have but a halt to processing new drivers. *shrugs*.

djino


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## HappyDriver (Mar 10, 2015)

Uber needs to address this. The issue lies with drivers facing the risk of getting dropped by their personal insurance providers! 

And getting blacklisted by insurance providers therefore losing their privilege to drive after. To aggravate the situation, I hear Uber discontinued ties and broke all communications with affected drivers. 

What say you, Uber?


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

So regardless of what I have read reporting to the Insurance fraud hotline will not gauge the investigation to a driver. The hotline was set up to deal with people who are committing fraud on the insurance company for clams against things like an accident and slip and falls. An Uber driver will not be priority with the number of agents who are busy recovering millions in these type of fraud cases. Faking an accident is still a huge issue and takes priority on something they may not be able to prove based on a license plate. It would be an easy thing to shrug off. "No I don't Uber the phone in the dash was a GPS and the passenger was my friend." Case closed.

The insurance company's have already stated "You May" not be covered doing Uber driving. Talk to them first before engaging said activities.

And yes car pooling for money is a defense on this according to some lawyers I have spoken to. But even that is a risky defense as there has been no precedence and even if an insurance company pays out there is no reason for them to keep you going forward. You will have a strike against your file that all insurance companies will have access to and good luck after that.

Ubers insurance covers the public and Uber. It will not cover the driver as written. However Uber has covered drivers in Canada based on information they have given and even in the news story the driver was not denied coverage he was only confused about the process. What the aftermath was after that who knows. He may be in deep trouble currently. (Trying to track this individual down this week)

If you do Uber you take a risk. End of story. I am not afraid of cabbies taking picture. I just take them right back. What I am worried is navigating the mess if something does happen. The risk is solely on me and not the passenger or public. They are covered and that has ben put in writing. I know if I total my car and it's a write off I am covered. We have free heath care here so again I am covered. Going forward I will get insurance again but it will cost a lot for the first few years. Again I am covered.

You need to take a hard look at your own situation if you have the funds to cover your situation, or you will find yourself with real problems.

Manage your own risk accordingly.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Article, Uber and insurance.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report...s-for-drivers/article23649272/?service=mobile


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

observer said:


> Article, Uber and insurance.
> 
> http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report...s-for-drivers/article23649272/?service=mobile


Please make sure you read the part where insurers are sueing drivers to reclaim losses for accidents driving with paying customers.


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## djino (Mar 15, 2015)

observer said:


> Please make sure you read the part where insurers are sueing drivers to reclaim losses for accidents driving with paying cutomers.


c'est ca.


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## Berliner (Oct 29, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> We have free heath care here so again I am covered.


Same here.

But who pays for the loss of earnings after an accident and for the wheelchair? This could be an existentially question for drivers and riders.


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## Noobler (Feb 12, 2015)

observer said:


> Article, Uber and insurance.
> 
> http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report...s-for-drivers/article23649272/?service=mobile


Thnxs for linking that.

So Uber Canada is in talks with Insurers to come up with hybrid policies in Canada. Good. Hopefully soon. Since they already have a template with which to work with from thier dealings with insurers in the States.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Berliner said:


> Same here.
> 
> But who pays for the loss of earnings after an accident and for the wheelchair? This could be an existentially question for drivers and riders.


I have other coverage with my employer for that. If I am unable to work I have disability benefits that cover me and a lump sum payment that will pay for my house and any outstanding debts. I pay extra every month for this.

Lets say I am over insured up the wazoo.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

observer said:


> Please make sure you read the part where insurers are sueing drivers to reclaim losses for accidents driving with paying customers.


Are you referring to this quote?

*But if they get into a serious accident while doing an Uber run, Ms. Comerford warned, insurers would likely limit the amount they pay out in claims, and then go after the drivers for the money for violating the terms of their personal policies.
*
Just an fyi Ms. Comerford is a broker and not the insurance companies who hold the policy. She is speaking in hypothedical and not what is happening. Always look at the source of the information. It's in her best interest to send that message as she makes money off the sales for insurance.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Are you referring to this quote?
> 
> *But if they get into a serious accident while doing an Uber run, Ms. Comerford warned, insurers would likely limit the amount they pay out in claims, and then go after the drivers for the money for violating the terms of their personal policies.
> *
> Just an fyi Ms. Comerford is a broker and not the insurance companies who hold the policy. She is speaking in hypothedical and not what is happening. Always look at the source of the information. It's in her best interest to send that message as she makes money off the sales for insurance.


True, just like it's in most drivers best interest in thinking they are ridesharing and not Ubering, and think they can pull a fast one over insurance companies.


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## LPlaisir (Mar 25, 2015)

http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/Pages/ridesharing-info.aspx

Warning tweet from the Financial Service Commission of Ontario about ridesharing.


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## HappyDriver (Mar 10, 2015)

Everytime I see a Taxi now, I can't help but associate these dated and generic transportation systems with Communism. Is it me just me, people? Perhaps these TNCs are circumventing certain the rules and regulations. But those rules were written way before cellphone was invented....


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## trigsterswift (Apr 2, 2015)

ultimately the driver of a car is responsible for its passengers, and its cargo, personal insurance, does NOT cover your passengers when you are exchanging any form of payment! as soon as there is money involved you are Commercial, the reason taxi drivers are starving is the insurance rates and i think if i remember correctly there is only a few who still do insurance for taxi insurance,
i drove taxi and quit when i discovered the only commercially insured person on my car was the owner, (who never drove it) driving children to schools regularly. with zero coverage, and to get my own commercial policy , I had to have had been on a policy as a driver with a history ,then you have to pay allot up front, complete, waste of time, not worth the $7hr at best, if my taxi had of crashed and someone was badly injured or killed, i would have been held accountable financially and possibly criminally, take note make sure you have your ass ! covered, ignorance is negligence. 

Toronto,canada


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

trigsterswift said:


> ultimately the driver of a car is responsible for its passengers, and its cargo, personal insurance, does NOT cover your passengers when you are exchanging any form of payment! as soon as there is money involved you are Commercial, the reason taxi drivers are starving is the insurance rates and i think if i remember correctly there is only a few who still do insurance for taxi insurance,
> i drove taxi and quit when i discovered the only commercially insured person on my car was the owner, (who never drove it) driving children to schools regularly. with zero coverage, and to get my own commercial policy , I had to have had been on a policy as a driver with a history ,then you have to pay allot up front, complete, waste of time, not worth the $7hr at best, if my taxi had of crashed and someone was badly injured or killed, i would have been held accountable financially and possibly criminally, take note make sure you have your ass ! covered, ignorance is negligence.
> 
> Toronto,canada


That statement is not true. Read your personal policy. I have posted in another thread where payment is acceptable under certain conditions. Long as you are not a taxi. And Uber has not legally been deemed a taxi service or the by-laws would shut them down.

Again read your policy and talk to your broker.


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## trigsterswift (Apr 2, 2015)

they are not a Taxi YOU are !!!! you are a contractor, providing a paid service. to a customer, your the Taxi.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

[BILLIOHappyDriver, post: 228186, member: 10613"]Everytime I see a Taxi now, I can't help but associate these dated and generic transportation systems with Communism. Is it me just me, people? Perhaps these TNCs are circumventing certain the rules and regulations. But those rules were written way before cellphone was invented....[/QUOTE]

Yep those ol' taxi rules were written in a time when social and corporate responsibility was defined and aspired to by individuals and businesses alike.

Nowadays its whatever a slick legal department can allow you to get away with. And if the price of redemption is too high a price to pay just fold your cards and walk away from any personal responsibility.

Travis' first file-sharing service "Scour" predated Napstar. The entertainment industry got together and sued Travis and Scour for a huge $ US250 BILLION Dollars! Travis filed for bankruptcy and wormed his way out of the suit.

Then his NEXT venture gets into trouble with the IRS who discovers that Travis' s new company had been withholding taxes from employees paychecks. IRS hit the founders with a $110,000 fine or face jail time.

So is this what we advocate in "Modern Civilised Society"? To watch an individual be given numerous chances to comply with the laws of the land but weasel out of personal responsibility each time?

Somehow i liked the good ol' days.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

trigsterswift said:


> they are not a Taxi YOU are !!!! you are a contractor, providing a paid service. to a customer, your the Taxi.


If I was deemed a taxi service then the city by-law enforcement would be all over me. The definition of a Taxi would be someone who runs a car to drive passengers for profit. I can prove that this is not what I am doing. My latest tax submission can prove that. Also I do not have a Taxi plate, do street hails and do not run a meter in the vehicle. I also do not accept cash for the service. I am paid by Uber for driving around to collect street information.

You see any way you spin it you can write yourself out of being called a Taxi. Anyone who knows a good lawyer will know this is the case.


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## UberOnSD (Mar 23, 2015)

LPlaisir said:


> I heard that taxi drivers in Toronto and Ottawa are taking pictures and writing down license plates of Uberx drivers and reporting them to the Insurance Fraud hotline. What effect will this have? I am really scared of insurance fraud. I know that if you get kicked off your insurance, it is next to impossible to get coverage again. I am also confused by the insurance info provided by Uber. They say that if the Uberx driver doesn't have the proper insurance (commercial in my area) they don't have to cover you in case of accident. Does that mean most uberx drivers have no insurance at all? That doesn't make sense because they ask for a copy of the driver's insurance when they apply to be a driver????? This is very confusing. Don't think it is worth the risk. What happens if neither the personal nor Uber's insurance covers an accident? Can the driver be sued and lose his house etc?


I had no idea that cab drivers were so concerned about insurance matters.

Hope none of them try to take MY picture. He certainly wont like how it turns out


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> [BILLIOHappyDriver, post: 228186, member: 10613"]Everytime I see a Taxi now, I can't help but associate these dated and generic transportation systems with Communism. Is it me just me, people? Perhaps these TNCs are circumventing certain the rules and regulations. But those rules were written way before cellphone was invented....


Yep those ol' taxi rules were written in a time when social and corporate responsibility was defined and aspired to by individuals and businesses alike.

Nowadays its whatever a slick legal department can allow you to get away with. And if the price of redemption is too high a price to pay just fold your cards and walk away from any personal responsibility.

Travis' first file-sharing service "Scour" predated Napstar. The entertainment industry got together and sued Travis and Scour for a huge $ US250 BILLION Dollars! Travis filed for bankruptcy and wormed his way out of the suit.

Then his NEXT venture gets into trouble with the IRS who discovers that Travis' s new company had been withholding taxes from employees paychecks. IRS hit the founders with a $110,000 fine or face jail time.

So is this what we advocate in "Modern Civilised Society"? To watch an individual be given numerous chances to comply with the laws of the land but weasel out of personal responsibility each time?

Somehow i liked the good ol' days.[/QUOTE]
Yet the good old days we had corruption in the Taxi industry that drove the medallion prices so high only the people at the top make a decent living. Yep sign me up for those good old days.

Technology has always gone against the existing system regardless of the industry. You either move with it or you die fighting it.

I'm happy to move forward with life and put the past where it belongs, in the past.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Yep those ol' taxi rules were written in a time when social and corporate responsibility was defined and aspired to by individuals and businesses alike.
> 
> Nowadays its whatever a slick legal department can allow you to get away with. And if the price of redemption is too high a price to pay just fold your cards and walk away from any personal responsibility.
> 
> ...


Yet the good old days we had corruption in the Taxi industry that drove the medallion prices so high only the people at the top make a decent living. Yep sign me up for those good old days.

Technology has always gone against the existing system regardless of the industry. You either move with it or you die fighting it.

I'm happy to move forward with life and put the past where it belongs, in the past.[/QUOTE]

So I guess that means Uber drivers are making a decent living?

Uber is just as corrupt if not more than the taxi companies.

Who makes the money at Uber, drivers or those at the top?

Nothing has changed for drivers.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Yep those ol' taxi rules were written in a time when social and corporate responsibility was defined and aspired to by individuals and businesses alike.
> 
> Nowadays its whatever a slick legal department can allow you to get away with. And if the price of redemption is too high a price to pay just fold your cards and walk away from any personal responsibility.
> 
> ...


Yet the good old days we had corruption in the Taxi industry that drove the medallion prices so high only the people at the top make a decent living. Yep sign me up for those good old days.

Technology has always gone against the existing system regardless of the industry. You either move with it or you die fighting it.

I'm happy to move forward with life and put the past where it belongs, in the past.[/QUOTE]

So capping a Market to ensure returns is corrupt? Yes it did drive Medallion/Prices up but ANYONE could bid at the auction if they could organise finance and then manage the Cab in tye manner to ensure the highest return for the operator and allow a public resource maximum exposure for transportation.

How is that corrupt? If someone wants to guarantee their transport they need to pre-book a Private Hire service. Yes more expensive but there is no market restrictions there. Some Private hire are cheaper than cabs - prices are not regulated. There is no restrictions to the numbers of Private Hire vehicles.

I just dont buy this "corrupt" line simply because the system had a public duty to serve all stakeholders.

Travis is laughing himself silly when people paint him as the lily white reformer. His Nirvana serves just one person - himself!


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