# Can you be paid for return mileage?



## Amber Laningham (Jan 19, 2018)

I had seen a video saying you can charge for a return trip when making a long drive. Is this still the case? if so how would you go about that?


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

You negotiate it with the pax at pickup time before starting drive and they pay you cash. Seriously, that's how it's done, in theory.

My advice is when you see the long trip notification come up you hit no thanks immediately.


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## upyouruber (Jul 24, 2017)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> You negotiate it with the pax at pickup time before starting drive and they pay you cash. Seriously, that's how it's done, in theory.
> 
> My advice is when you see the long trip notification come up you hit no thanks immediately.


I love long trips.
Great pay. Easy driving.


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## dogemuffins (Mar 16, 2017)

Long trips are awesome, even if you do some dead miles the way back it's just so nice and easy. Vs chasing your tail picking up and dropping off people.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

*Q:* Can you be paid for return mileage? (title of topic)

*A:* No.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Yes but you have to negotiate it yourself.

See screenshot, from the Uber rider app.


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## Amber Laningham (Jan 19, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> *Q:* Can you be paid for return mileage? (title of topic)
> 
> *A:* No.


Can you elaborate, everyone else is saying yes get the promotion and keep the app running. why do you say no?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

If you keep the application running on the return trip while you are not carrying a passenger and Uber or Lyft discover it (such as the customer's complaining about the charge), you will be de-activated.

At these garbage rates, you should be paid for the return trip, but *that ain't gonna' happen; not today.*


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

I messaged Uber yesterday over getting return pay for a 152 mile trip.... Their reply was not a chance...


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Arrive at ping location. Pax gets in car. I've already gotten a 'long trip' notice so I do NOT swipe the ap yet. 
Conversation goes like this:
Me: So, where we going tonight? 
Pax: We going to NoWhere.
Me: Cute little town. Well, it is a 150 mile trip to NoWhere, so it is also a 150 miles back. I charge a 50 cent per mile return trip fee. It's expensive for me to drive this car and I need a little help with the gas to get home. That will be $75. That's up front, before we leave town. Do we need to hit an ATM?

Now wait. That needs to soak in. You'll get a blank stare. When it looks like the processing time is about up (varies depending on the intelligence of the pax) I say:
"You don't have to. If you like I will cancel this ride with no charge to you and you can try another driver. But, I need to be paid for my time and expenses."
They may have some questions, they may want to negotiate (which I do, a little bit ... I mite go to $50 on that trip), but most have agreed. They see the logic.
If they don't, that's ok too.


PS: Sometimes they'll say, "Can I tip you in the ap?" To which I reply, "No, because it isn't a tip. It is a return trip fee and there is no way to pay that in the ap. It is treated differently than a tip by the IRS so it needs to be separate."


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## WestchessUB (Nov 22, 2017)

Warning to all drivers:

Yesterday a ping came in 45+ minute ride from Days Inn. Upon arriving a woman, disheveled, with one suitcase wants to go to LI. I kindly explain that the trip requires a toll up my return or to Westchester or I can cancel without a charge to her and she then asks "how much is the toll?" I say "$6" to which she readily reaches into her being and puts $10 onto me even before I start the trip. Then says "lets go"
I ask if she would like change and she says "no"

I ask "where you from?" her reply was "Boston and she's in for her sisters wedding and arrived via train at 3am" Should have stopped the car right there. I've smelled a few things in the car before, but this smelled of something I really could not put a finger on or nose. If she wasn't so large, she may have been a cheap working girl, and still may have been. 

I get a msg from Fuber, saying that a customer complained and that I'd asked for cash. I reply, no, that's not what happened. I did not ask nor was it required. I simply said it was not profitable to go over bridges to the passenger and she offered cash. (More so out of principle than money do i not cross tolls without a return) Last fall I took two girls over the Tappan Zee but without moving the car, let them know that it's a toll out of my pocket to return. The trip earned $3 after they complained and the fare was adjusted. 12 miles, 30 minutes and took pictures of them for them at the resort and they still complained. 

Back and forth all morning, but their decision for deactivate my account is final. Alas, my cancel rate is %3, rating 4.93, acceptance %80+. 

Could be a great lesson for anyone reading about the tolls, trials and tribulations of working in an area where there are so many required. 

Cheers


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Before i quit doing uber regularly.


I had a pickup going 3 hours 200ish miles and i attempted to negotiate return tolls (just tolls going back) It failed.

I ended up canceling the trip and kicking them out of the car. That was when the Orlando rate was 67c paid to the driver. I was smart enough to send uber an email telling them i jut couldn't stay awake and alert enough to drive 7 or 8 hours straight to get back home faster then the customer could report me...


$150-160 for 6-8 hours of highway driving (over 400 miles) (-$5 or so in return tolls) is crap, now it's even worse here.

Now it would be $130 for the same trip.


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## Ride Nights & Weekends (Jan 5, 2018)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Before i quit doing uber regularly.
> 
> I had a pickup going 3 hours 200ish miles and i attempted to negotiate return tolls (just tolls going back) It failed.
> 
> ...


$150 for 8hours of driving and 1-2 tanks of gas?....shit even I dont like drivong that much


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Ride Nights & Weekends said:


> $150 for 8hours of driving and 1-2 tanks of gas?....shit even I dont like drivong that much


The rates have been cut here since then to..


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

WestchessUB said:


> Warning to all drivers:
> 
> Yesterday a ping came in 45+ minute ride from Days Inn. Upon arriving a woman, disheveled, with one suitcase wants to go to LI. I kindly explain that the trip requires a toll up my return or to Westchester or I can cancel without a charge to her and she then asks "how much is the toll?" I say "$6" to which she readily reaches into her being and puts $10 onto me even before I start the trip. Then says "lets go"
> I ask if she would like change and she says "no"
> ...


Good lesson for anyone but still good business to get that return toll money, I guess the best thing when it comes to Uber is to just deny, deny, deny.

Both of these company's are just the worst. Uber was always that at least I thought Lyft was a little better but then in our market they stopped all primetime just like that. Ugh these two company's can't go away fast enough.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

What Uber told me when I asked was “Uber is meant to be a cashless service, so no negotiating for cash compensation for a return trip”. They added that they know some trips won’t be profitable and that we are free to refuse them

I always take the long rides. Because in spite of the return trip they are profitable

100 miles at 75 cents a mile plus 10 cents a min for 120 minutes is about $90. I figure my costs at 30 cents a mile so $60 and I make about $30
No much for 4 hours of my time, but I know ill do better in another 4 hour block.... recently I had a 50 mile ride from the airport and then a 50 mile ride back. Things have a way of averaging out


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

oldfart said:


> What Uber told me when I asked was "Uber is meant to be a cashless service, so no negotiating for cash compensation for a return trip". They added that they know some trips won't be profitable and that we are free to refuse them
> 
> I always take the long rides. Because in spite of the return trip they are profitable
> 
> ...


Not to sound argumentative but. 30 a like is far from possible.... the federal deduction is over .50 for a reason!


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> Not to sound argumentative but. 30 a like is far from possible.... the federal deduction is over .50 for a reason!


The federal deduction is presumably based on average vehicle costs. I agree that many drivers underestimate these costs, but just wanted to point out that the federal figure is not some magical number which covers every vehicle.

I've owned my current car (a base level compact, bought used but with very low miles) for around 2 years now, and so far I've spent a total of around $16,796 on the car (fully paid off). This includes the purchase price, maintenance, sales tax, registration, insurance and gas (hope I didn't forget anything). According to the number of miles I've driven with it so far, even if I were to give the car away for free, I would have spend around $0.46 per mile on it, which is below the federal number. Obviously I'm not going to do that, so the more miles I drive with it from here on in, the more the per mile cost should go down. Until, with time, it gets so old, and repair costs increase to the point that it's no longer worth fixing, at which point it's probably best to sell/trade it for some minimal amount. Like I said, this is a base level compact vehicle, bought used but with low miles, so I skipped a large chunk of its depreciation, plus it also gets pretty good gas mileage. Bigger vehicles of a similar age would obviously be more expensive to run.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> The federal deduction is presumably based on average vehicle costs. I agree that many drivers underestimate these costs, but just wanted to point out that the federal figure is not some magical number which covers every vehicle.
> 
> I've owned my current car (a base level compact, bought used but with very low miles) for around 2 years now, and so far I've spent a total of around $16,796 on the car (fully paid off). This includes the purchase price, maintenance, sales tax, registration, insurance and gas (hope I didn't forget anything). According to the number of miles I've driven with it so far, even if I were to give the car away for free, I would have spend around $0.46 per mile on it, which is below the federal number. Obviously I'm not going to do that, so the more miles I drive with it from here on in, the more the per mile cost will go down. Like I said, this is a base level compact vehicle, bought used but with low miles, so I skipped a large chunk of its depreciation, plus it also gets pretty good gas mileage. Bigger vehicles of a similar age would obviously be more expensive to run.


I used a gms voucher for mine... cost is still substantially higher


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Juggalo9er said:


> Not to sound argumentative but. 30 a like is far from possible.... the federal deduction is over .50 for a reason!


That IRS number is a gift and its what makes rideshare work.

Heres how I come to my 30 cent number... 
I get 20 miles to the gallon, gas costs $3...thats 15 cents for fuel
I plan to replace the car after 200000 miles. I plan on spending $25000..... thats 12.5 cents per mile
That leaves 2.5 cents a mile or about $200 a month for routine maintenance

I know....way too simplistic but I think its close


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

oldfart said:


> That IRS number is a gift and its what makes rideshare work.
> 
> Heres how I come to my 30 cent number...
> I get 20 miles to the gallon, gas costs $3...thats 15 cents for fuel
> ...


I think you forgot registration fees, liability insurance, comprehensive and collision, financing costs, and irregular repairs. You know, like AC compressors, alternators, batteries, lights, ball joints, rack and pinion (don't you just love speed bumps and pot holes and intersection dips?) door handles, window switches, radio buttons, dents, scratches, seat repairs, carpet fixes, detailing, radiators, relays, windshields,transmission overhauls, head gaskets, electronics boxes like the master control unit, and on and on and on.

Why do you think there are all those banks and auto parts supply businesses and auto repair facilities and auto insurance offices and DMV offices?

Do you think ride share vehicles are exempt from such issues?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

A 


UberProphet? said:


> I think you forgot registration fees, liability insurance, comprehensive and collision, financing costs, and irregular repairs. You know, like AC compressors, alternators, batteries, lights, ball joints, rack and pinion (don't you just love speed bumps and pot holes and intersection dips?) door handles, window switches, radio buttons, dents, scratches, seat repairs, carpet fixes, detailing, radiators, relays, windshields,transmission overhauls, head gaskets, electronics boxes like the master control unit, and on and on and on.
> 
> Why do you think there are all those banks and auto parts supply businesses and auto repair facilities and auto insurance offices and DMV offices?
> 
> Do you think ride share vehicles are exempt from such issues?


No, not exempt but everyone's costs are different. I have no finance charges. my car is fully depreciated and and I just dont expect any maintenance surprises in the next 18 months at which time I'll sell it. At least that's the plan. If I'm wrong I'll have to dip into my reserves for that maintenance or to replace the car


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

oldfart said:


> A
> 
> No, not exempt but everyone's costs are different. I have no finance charges. my car is fully depreciated and and I just dont expect any maintenance surprises in the next 18 months at which time I'll sell it. At least that's the plan. If I'm wrong I'll have to dip into my reserves for that maintenance or to replace the car


No finance charges? If you had invested $25,000 at 5% you would reap $1,250 per year. That $1,250 represents a real $5,000 finance cost over 4 years. (If you had bought a simple index fund you would have doubled the $25,000).

"I just dont expect any maintenance surprises in the next 18 months" That's why they are called surprises! Because you didn't expect them.

Why do you think car companies do not give/sell warranty on taxi's? Not even for the first 36,000 miles. What do they know that you don't? They know, from experience over millions of cars, that taxi usage is much more damaging to a vehicle than ordinary private motoring.

You are woefully underestimating your costs and inflating your alleged profit.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

A 


UberProphet? said:


> I think you forgot registration fees, liability insurance, comprehensive and collision, financing costs, and irregular repairs. You know, like AC compressors, alternators, batteries, lights, ball joints, rack and pinion (don't you just love speed bumps and pot holes and intersection dips?) door handles, window switches, radio buttons, dents, scratches, seat repairs, carpet fixes, detailing, radiators, relays, windshields,transmission overhauls, head gaskets, electronics boxes like the master control unit, and on and on and on.
> 
> Why do you think there are all those banks and auto parts supply businesses and auto repair facilities and auto insurance offices and DMV offices?
> 
> Do you think ride share vehicles are exempt from such issues?


No, there are no finance charges I invested my car in the business and and I didn't forget these expenses, I just not expect them in the next 18 months

Bottom line this is a business. I invested $25000 and expect a return of that investment in two years ($1000 a month) and I pay the help (me) $3000 a month. If we both (the car and me) last two years I'll do it again. 


UberProphet? said:


> No finance charges? If you had invested $25,000 at 5% you would reap $1,250 per year. That $1,250 represents a real $5,000 finance cost over 4 years. (If you had bought a simple index fund you would have doubled the $25,000).
> 
> "I just dont expect any maintenance surprises in the next 18 months" That's why they are called surprises! Because you didn't expect them.
> 
> ...


I might give you the finance cost but I'd call it opportunity cost. I had choices. I could put the money in the bank or in the market or under my pilllow. Or into a business. I chose to put it in a car and the car into a business. Certainly not the safest investment but I'm betting it will make me more than the bank or a bond or the stock market.

So what you call a cost I call an investment. I'm going to make that money back and then some....or not

And regarding those surprises, I have a $40000 contingency fund that I can draw on


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

If you have decent negotiation chops and are not socially awkward, go for it. I mean, it is right there in black and white on the webpage under rider information (still there as of this post). If they tried deactivating over this, just screenshot that page and paragraph and send it in to Rohit with your own "nastygram". They hold drivers to everything in the fine print. They should be no different. If it the "cashless" tripe they are getting caught up on, just get a square reader and you can be happily cashless.

Maybe the guy earlier was deactivated because he was asking for return tolls and that isn't _explicitly_ stated. Idk. In my market, all long trips are bad news economically, so they get an immediate "no thanks" from me. To be totally frank, I've only had a handful of riders (out of _thousands_) with whom I'd be comfortable spending that much time in my car, especially for such crappy pay!


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## Gayle62 (Dec 14, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> *Q:* Can you be paid for return mileage? (title of topic)
> 
> *A:* No.


What about through your Tax??


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Gayle62 said:


> What about through your Tax??


Please consider that I am not a tax professional, thus I am not qualified to give out tax advice. Anyone who wants tax advice should obtain that advice from someone who is qualified to render it.

What I do when I begin to work is note the mileage on the odometer. A motor vehicle is the only thing on which you calculate use by miles driven rather than operating hours. In fact, a Tax Professional has informed me that the Internal Revenue will not allow you to calculate use of a motor vehicle based on operating hours. This is required by law on the cab and I do it on the UberX car because it seemed the logical thing to do and my accountant has confirmed that. At the end of the work period, I note the ending mileage. Those are the total business miles. The next time that I go to work the car, I note the beginning mileage. If there is a difference between the ending mileage for the last work period and the beginning for the current, I note that figure. The last noted figure is "non-business miles". You must keep track of your business and non-business miles.

As long as the deadheading is done while you are still working, I would assume that you can count those deadhead miles as business use. You would have to ask your accountant to be sure, or, post the question on the Tax Boards. There are two or three Tax Professionals on those Boards who seem happy to answer any question that you might have about taxes.

As far as being paid DIRECTLY for return miles on the established mileage rates: that will not happen.

Oh, and welcome to YouPeaDotNet...................


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## brimack (Jan 19, 2018)

Drove From Mansfield Texas to Houston 3 1/2 Hours 238 Miles for $170 Had to return to Dallas 238 miles with no pax Total time 7 hours. not worth it.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

brimack said:


> 3 1/2 Hours 238 Miles for $170 Had to return to Dallas 238 miles with no pax Total time 7 hours. not worth it.


Seven hours for $170 is a little over $24 the hour. If you look at on an hourly basis, it is allright, but, still not worth all of the time and trouble. I would not do it for Uber's garbage rates.


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## Driver_With_Uber (May 31, 2018)

Try driving from Philly Area to Baltimore... then trying to get a ride back from there when the driver app says you are not authorised to drive. After attempts to get it to work (restarts etc), total failure. Uber claims it was working perfectly and I was authorized to drive. Then.. when I got about 25 miles out of baltimore, it came back online and then asked to take a picture of me... on the highway.. FFS. Eventually I did, but no ride. I got almost back home and the next passenger gave me a 20 dollar tip, so that made it less sour.


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## WestchessUB (Nov 22, 2017)

mrpjfresh said:


> If you have decent negotiation chops and are not socially awkward, go for it. I mean, it is right there in black and white on the webpage under rider information (still there as of this post). If they tried deactivating over this, just screenshot that page and paragraph and send it in to Rohit with your own "nastygram". They hold drivers to everything in the fine print. They should be no different. If it the "cashless" tripe they are getting caught up on, just get a square reader and you can be happily cashless.
> 
> Maybe the guy earlier was deactivated because he was asking for return tolls and that isn't _explicitly_ stated. Idk. In my market, all long trips are bad news economically, so they get an immediate "no thanks" from me. To be totally frank, I've only had a handful of riders (out of _thousands_) with whom I'd be comfortable spending that much time in my car, especially for such crappy pay!


I did close to 1000 rides. Only twice as listed above was there a concern with tolls. The rider was a someone who knew the system, complained, and that was that.
Going to a greenhub was no help. They said that I had destination discrim and deactivated my account. If the rider offered to pay the return toll, we went, if not, we didn't go.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Seven hours for $170 is a little over $24 the hour. If you look at on an hourly basis, it is allright, but, still not worth all of the time and trouble. I would not do it for Uber's garbage rates.


 thats what? about 100 miles or 2 hours so round trip...200 miles/4 hours

Id expect about $100 so thats 50 cents a mile or $25 an hour

Id like to do better on the mileage, but with my car it would still be profitable Id do it without complaint... I might even invest an extra hour and get a free meal and a visit with my sister,


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## Gov Moonbeam (May 22, 2018)

WestchessUB said:


> I did close to 1000 rides. Only twice as listed above was there a concern with tolls. The rider was a someone who knew the system, complained, and that was that.
> Going to a greenhub was no help. They said that I had destination discrim and deactivated my account. If the rider offered to pay the return toll, we went, if not, we didn't go.


I tried to negotiate a return trip fee, rider didn't wanna. I told him to cancel the trip and there'd be no charge, he did.
Since it was more than five minutes, it charged him. I sent a text asking Uber to reverse it, they did.
Next day I get a call from Uber complaining that I did a "destination discrim", I asked him on what ride - Rohit couldn't say. I told him that I knew that he couldn't tell me what ride it was, but asked if HE knew. He said he did. I said, "Look close. Who cancelled the trip? Was it me?" Long pause then "Oh," he says. I said, "How can I discriminate if I didn't cancel the trip? Sounds like the rider discriminated against ME. Was it because of my race? My gender? My age?"
End of it.

Never start the trip on a long one until the negotiations are OVER. If it doesn't work out well, tell the rider to canx the ride and that there's "no hard feelings, and no charge."


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