# Lyft built a brand on being the nice gig work app clad in pink. Its drivers paint a different picture.



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lyft-built-brand-being-nice-105355336.html




*Lyft built a brand on being the nice gig work app clad in pink. Its drivers paint a different picture.*









Lyft built a brand on being the nice gig work app clad in pink. Its drivers paint a different picture.

Faiz Siddiqui
Tue, September 21, 2021, 6:53 AM

SAN FRANCISCO - Ray Givaudan has driven for Lyft, Uber and even briefly Instacart to supplement his retirement over the last few years.
At first, the 55-year-old was loyal to Lyft. But then Uber introduced a long pickup fee to pay more if he goes out of his way to pick up a passenger. In addition, he could see what a customer paid for a trip, helping him understand if he was getting a fair share. Instacart provided more opportunities for work during the pandemic.


"The first couple of years with Lyft, you seemed to be a decent company and transparent," the Roanoke-based driver recently wrote in a letter to Lyft co-founders Logan Green and John Zimmer. "The last couple of years, not so much." He cited the disappearance of surge-priced pay, lagging driver rewards and the removal of helpful features such as a live phone help line for drivers.

Lyft has spent years trying to win over drivers and passengers with fun branding, an emphasis on social justice and charitable causes, and in-app tipping. The perks gave it a reputational edge in a marketplace where rival Uber was criticized for its treatment of drivers and corporate scandals, and where food and grocery delivery was a budding and uncertain sector of the gig economy, often with lower pay.

But the pandemic and related labor shortage has dramatically shifted that landscape over the past couple years. At Lyft, which remained focused on ride hailing, ridership was down by as much as 75 percent last year.

Drivers aren't bound to one company, and can easily switch between apps. In the interim, many drivers chose to work for rival food delivery services, which experienced a boom in deliveries and offered additional transparency into earnings, along with advantages like negating the risk of interacting with passengers. Companies like DoorDash and Shipt added driver incentives, such as cash bonuses last winter in an effort to meet surging demand.

And while Uber experienced similar ridership declines to Lyft at the height of the pandemic, it doubled down with its Eats food delivery business.

Now demand for rides is returning, fueling a driver shortage. And as other companies have offered steadier work and more transparency, some drivers say they are frustrated with Lyft.

Lyft has fallen behind the gig work market in several areas, more than a half-dozen drivers, analysts and researchers say. Lyft's take-home pay also tends to be lower than its biggest rival, Uber, owing to a combination of stiff competition and algorithms less sensitive to surges in demand.

"I think Lyft is floundering," Givaudan said.

Lyft spokeswoman Julie Wood said the company places a priority on the driver experience. She said quoted wait times for riders on Lyft were lower than on Uber in 24 of the 30 largest markets over a recent period, according to company data points and visualizations that were shared with The Washington Post. That meant there was little indication drivers were choosing Uber over Lyft. And drivers in some cities were earning more than $35 an hour, well beyond what they would typically collect, the company said recently.

"We continue to invest in making the Lyft experience a great one for drivers," Wood said in a statement. "We know we're making progress because of the increased number of drivers on the platform, and the fact that they're earning more than ever before."

But the lack of transparency can lead some drivers to feel they're not receiving a fair share. One driver shared screenshots with The Post showing a passenger paid more than $43 for a trip from Northwest Washington to Reagan National Airport, but he took home just over $16. The driver, a music instructor who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he did not want his students to know he was driving for Lyft, had to ask the passenger to see how much they paid for the ride.

Wood said many of the features mentioned in this story are available on the Lyft app, either through pilot programs or unlockable driver rewards. Lyft has a long pickup bonus in six markets, for example. And drivers can earn the ability to see passenger destinations through their driver rewards, she said. Lyft is also experimenting with upfront pay in two markets, allowing drivers to see the earnings and trip details on the screen before accepting a ride.

Uber spokesman Matthew Wing acknowledged the company has had to make improvements in the face of outside pressure and calls for change.

"Being the market leader comes with more scrutiny, as it should," Wing said. "Drivers have a lot of choices and actions, not branding, are what you need to earn their trust."

Instacart spokeswoman Natalia Montalvo said the firm met a March 2020 goal to add 300,000 shoppers, and there are stable numbers of shoppers across North America.

DoorDash declined to comment. Amazon and Shipt did not immediately return requests for comment. (Amazon founder Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post.)

Drivers say they've watched a shift at Lyft from its beginnings, when it was the first ride-hailing app to implement a default tipping feature and has allowed customers to tip since its debut nearly a decade ago. Lyft also was first to let drivers pocket their earnings right away through a feature called "Express Pay," with instant deposits for a transfer fee, it said.

In California, estimated to be the largest U.S. market for gig work with more than 1 million workers, a 2019 law that mandated companies treat gig workers as employees helped drive some changes in driver treatment. Some companies - particularly Uber - added a number of perks for drivers, including more control over fares and transparency into earnings even before a driver took on a ride. The initiatives tried to prove drivers were independent.

Lyft didn't adopt new features, as it pursued a different legal strategy. Analysts said that company likely benefited from the fact that Uber drivers were turning down trips, and the changes Uber made to its app were costly from a research, development and operational standpoint.

A judge last month ruled that a ballot proposition called Prop 22 that usurped that law's requirement for gig workers was unconstitutional. Although it faces a promised appeal, the ruling has once again put drivers' issues in the spotlight - particularly as gig work companies try to replicate Prop 22 with new legislation across the country.

Still, some of Uber's changes were short lived. It uncoupled driver earnings from passenger fares earlier this year as it no longer needed to prove drivers were independent operators in a supply-and-demand-based marketplace, sparking outrage among some drivers.

That led to cases where passengers found themselves paying astronomical fares while drivers collected meager bonuses. Meanwhile, some riders trying to take a Lyft were shown reasonable prices, but there weren't drivers to accept the fares.

Ride-hailing apps are highly dependent on their matching algorithms to pair customers with nearby drivers for a reasonable fare, at a rate that ensures gig workers are willing to make the trip.

Lyft's algorithm is less sensitive, analysts said, meaning prices don't spike as easily and driver bonuses can be lower and less frequent. Wood pointed to the wait time data as evidence that there is an ample supply of drivers, however.

But the differing algorithms can lead to headaches. For example, when customers pouring from an event are all demanding rides at once, they might find the price of an Uber has spiked while Lyft is comparably cheaper. In that case, Uber's algorithm has detected a surge in demand and raises the price accordingly so customers can secure a ride with the limited supply of drivers.

Changing an algorithm in an app can cost tens or millions of dollars, said Brad Erickson, an equity analyst with RBC Capital Markets. "That is not a trivial change, product-wise," he added.

While gig companies are known for luring drivers with high earnings potential and slowly whittling it away, there has been something of a mini perk war among those duking it out for drivers.

DoorDash provides all drivers a guaranteed rate of pay upfront, and visibility into how far drivers' trips will take them, critical insights for drivers determining whether deliveries are worth their while. Instacart, meanwhile, began letting drivers connect with a company agent by phone in under two minutes, chat directly within the app or schedule a call with an agent.

Delivery service Shipt offered surprise "recognition" bonuses for shoppers following the busy holiday season, awarding between $50 and $500 to workers who took on a range of order amounts.

At the ride-hailing companies, bonuses constitute a large chunk of driver earnings, as Uber drivers pursue "Quest" goals that pay out hundreds of dollars for hitting certain milestones, such as 60 or 70 trips over a weekend. Lyft drivers operate under a similar system, though experienced drivers who spoke with The Post said the bonuses are fewer and farther between for all but the newest contractors.

"Lyft historically is known to have less drastic surge pricing and price fluctuation," said Ippei Takahashi, founder of RideGuru, a website that provides fare comparisons for the ride-hailing apps. "Many historical [studies] have stated that Lyft takes a larger portion of each ride - at least in aggregate," he added.

It's a phenomenon gig driver Timothy Bullock experienced directly during an East Coast snowstorm in February. Bullock shared screenshots of the surge map - a map of all bonuses available to drivers - for both apps taken one minute apart.

"Uber was offering surge rewards to drivers in excess of $40 a ride, yet Lyft was offering nothing," Bullock said. "The result was that there were no available drivers, even though a standard Lyft ride was significantly cheaper."

Lower customer fares and longer wait times are possible amid the driver shortage, but they follow a pattern that typically benefits drivers, said Lyft spokeswoman Wood.

"When rider prices are lower, that generally helps to stimulate rider demand. More rider demand means more rides for drivers," she said. "Drivers understand that the busier they are, the more they make."

Lyft continues to promote its brand of social appeal, extending it to drivers. Just this month, Lyft announced it would cover drivers' legal costs under Texas's restrictive abortion law, which bans abortions as early as six weeks and lets anyone file a lawsuit against another person who has helped someone obtain an abortion.

Ben Valdez, a Los Angeles-based volunteer organizer with the group Rideshare Drivers United who drives for both companies, said a friend recently called him to ask for a ride because he had been waiting more than an hour on the ride-hailing apps. He'd been promised a $60 Lyft, after finding the comparable Uber ride would have cost $100.

"Uber was surging during bar rush; they wanted $100 for a 15-mile ride," Valdez said. The friend instead embarked on an extended wait for a Lyft.

With Lyft, Valdez said, "It's literally, 'You get what you pay for.' "


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

*"Drivers understand that the busier they are, the more they make."*

The fact that the Lyft spokesperson said this tells me how deceitful the company is. Its not about how busy you are, its about your rate of pay. If you fail to understand this, you will always be a poor RS driver, running your vehicle into the ground for peanuts. 

Its quite simple to understand, if Uber is surging 2.0X and Lyft is offering nothing, you are definitely NOT making more money if you continue to accept Lyft requests. Yes, you will be busy with Lyft, but at the base rates they are paying you, you are really making sh*t as depreciation and maintenance has not been included in your costs.

They need to start hiring math majors or engineers to be their spokespersons. Math is definitely not this person's strong suit.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

Lyft is brainwashing drivers in believing more rides mean more pay.
If Lyft has nothing to hide, why do they not show us what the pax paid for each ride? Supposedly, the transaction is between us and the pax, yet they do not show us the full details of the transaction.


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## BestInDaWest (Apr 8, 2021)

i knew they were S**T almost immediately


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## Lord Summerisle (Aug 15, 2015)

I don't know if hiding the price the passenger paid is illegal but it's certainly unethical. I'm pleased that they're receiving negative publicity. They know damn well what they're doing is shady. Hopefully if it is decided that prop 22 is indeed unconstitutional, there will have to be a reckoning for the despicable practices of these companies.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> https://www.yahoo.com/news/lyft-built-brand-being-nice-105355336.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's a reason I coined the phrase "Lyft is Uber in 
a Pink Tutu™

My vitriol towards Lyft goes back a while:

**** you Zimmer and Logan AKA Lyft

**** Lyft


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> *"Drivers understand that the busier they are, the more they make."*
> 
> The fact that the Lyft spokesperson said this tells me how deceitful the company is. Its not about how busy you are, its about your rate of pay.



I noticed this when I read the article. It is just spin on the Uber lie that "lower rates mean higher earnings for our partners:.





Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> They need to start hiring math majors or engineers to be their spokespersons. Math is definitely not this person's strong suit.



It is less erroneous arithmetic and more lies, deceit and spin.






Illini said:


> Lyft is brainwashing drivers in believing more rides mean more pay.



It is simply lies, deceit and spin.




Lord Summerisle said:


> Hopefully if it is decided that prop 22 is indeed unconstitutional, there will have to be a reckoning for the despicable practices of these companies.


I am somewhat less than ecstatic about the government's being involved. Sadly, it seems the only way to bring these robber barons to their knees.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Lord Summerisle said:


> I don't know if hiding the price the passenger paid is illegal but it's certainly unethical.


Ya know ... I have to agree with that.
I drove for Uber for a couple years ... a LONG time ago, in the beginning. I am an OG.

But, before that, (and during that) I am a Real Estate Broker. In THAT industry, in MY state, lack of "full disclosure" is a BFD. A broker can lose his license the first time, for not fully disclosing something. I told all my clients that "if I know something, you will too". And I did it.

I had a new agent ask me once, "Hey, I got a situation I'm not sure about. Should I inform my client that ...." I interrupted and said, "Yes." She said, "I didn't tell you what it's about." I said, "It doesn't matter what its about. If it's a question at all, let your client decide. Tell them. If it's not important, they'll tell you. If it is ... it's something that may bite you in the butt years from now. TELL THEM."

It's not only ethics -- it's just good business. 
My clients trusted me, and came back again and again.


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## #1husler (Aug 22, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> https://www.yahoo.com/news/lyft-built-brand-being-nice-105355336.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm cognizant that a lot of UP members rag on Lyft...but I dont think its that much worse than Uber...both kinda suck in their own ways....I concur that Lyft rates for drivers are less, but than the "trade-off" is you can more easily work Lyft's system to cherry-pick, wherein Uber dont give you ANY info about pax ride destination until you arrive and start ride.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

#1husler said:


> you can more easily work Lyft's system to cherry-pick, wherein Uber dont give you ANY info about pax ride destination until you arrive and start ride.


Lyft is mostly worse, but there is the advantage of being able to screen jobs before accepting, thus not getting into cancel or "not making progress" trouble. On Uber, you have to cancel after accept, which will get you into trouble with them more quickly.

I can see if the address is difficult to cover on Lyft as it shows the address (or lack thereof, which is frequently a decline out of hand). On Uber all that I see is a point on a map. I must guess if I can cover it. At times, it will show as difficult to cover. Sometimes, I am stuck, but sometimes I can get away with a cancel.


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## #1husler (Aug 22, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> "not making progress" trouble.


A salient point...that Lyft's "not making process" markets making cherry picking less possible...but if you're NOT in a market where Lyft closing monitors "no cover" rides then you have free rein to accept 100% (22+ mins away pings and all...), hit reward status to get upfront intel on on ride destination and then do the PU on those which make sense and no cover all the rest (take an Uber ping while waiting for ride to cancel out).


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

#1husler said:


> I'm cognizant that a lot of UP members rag on Lyft...but I dont think its that much worse than Uber...both kinda suck in their own ways....I concur that Lyft rates for drivers are less, but than the "trade-off" is you can more easily work Lyft's system to cherry-pick, wherein Uber dont give you ANY info about pax ride destination until you arrive and start ride.


Get this Cancellation Rate on Lyft and see what happens...


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## BestInDaWest (Apr 8, 2021)

New2This said:


> Get this Cancellation Rate on Lyft and see what happens...
> 
> View attachment 616840


57% cancel? lol what is that brown level? as in S**T?


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## #1husler (Aug 22, 2017)

New2This said:


> Get this Cancellation Rate on Lyft and see what happens...
> 
> View attachment 616840


It won’t b good for the community…


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## Arb Watson (Apr 6, 2017)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> *"Drivers understand that the busier they are, the more they make."*
> 
> The fact that the Lyft spokesperson said this tells me how deceitful the company is. Its not about how busy you are, its about your rate of pay. If you fail to understand this, you will always be a poor RS driver, running your vehicle into the ground for peanuts.
> 
> ...


If that happened the company would literally implode.


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## #1husler (Aug 22, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> Ya know ... I have to agree with that.
> I drove for Uber for a couple years ... a LONG time ago, in the beginning. I am an OG.
> 
> But, before that, (and during that) I am a Real Estate Broker. In THAT industry, in MY state, lack of "full disclosure" is a BFD. A broker can lose his license the first time, for not fully disclosing something. I told all my clients that "if I know something, you will too". And I did it.
> ...


Trust & Lyft should never b uttered in same sentence…


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

Inflation up. Fares are up. Gas is up. Base rates are the same.

These need a day in court to blow the lid off this garbage.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Lyft spokeswoman Julie Wood said the company places a priority on the driver experience. She said quoted wait times for riders on Lyft were lower than on Uber in 24 of the 30 largest markets over a recent period, according to company data points and visualizations that were shared with The Washington Post. That meant there was little indication drivers were choosing Uber over Lyft. And drivers in some cities were earning more than $35 an hour, well beyond what they would typically collect, the company said recently.
> 
> "We continue to invest in making the Lyft experience a great one for drivers," Wood said in a statement. "We know we're making progress because of the increased number of drivers on the platform, and the fact that they're earning more than ever before."
> 
> ...


So, Wood is the "Bagdad Bob" for Lyft.


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## Classified (Feb 8, 2018)

I would rather do less trips for more money,

they want us to do more trips for less money,

both you make similar revenue, but one you have higher running costs and expenses, making your income much lower


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Classified said:


> one you have higher running costs and expenses, making your income much lower



............plus more opportunities for customers who do not like what they must pay, so they file a false report on you.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

After many years, poor choices, and some naked gaslighting on behalf of LYFT, I've come around to the fact that they are indeed worse than Uber. I never thought that would happen. But then *PRIORITY MODE* became a thing.


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## #1husler (Aug 22, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> ............plus more opportunities for customers who do not like what they must pay, so they file a false report on you.


More rides is just more liability all around


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## #1husler (Aug 22, 2017)

BestInDaWest said:


> 57% cancel? lol what is that brown level? as in S**T?


Yes,Lyft sends those members a Lyft branded pee bottle


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## OC-Moe (Oct 6, 2018)

Left is just the more theatrical of the two shysters


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

The end and be all is that people need to real price of the ride. They need a total transperancy laws which show everything and they need an 80/20 split


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## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

The original rideshare concept is a good one. Unfortunately, as with most everything, greed ruined it.


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