# Why you shouldn't give cash rides off app in Florida (In Reality it's worse than I thought) 3 year + license suspension



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.



So far...

His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.

And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.

And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.


On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.



(the pic has nothing to do with anything, except making this eligible for front page)


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## ObeyTheNumbers

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> So far...
> 
> His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
> The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
> His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
> The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
> And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
> His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
> And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.
> 
> And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.
> 
> And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.
> 
> 
> On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.


Uber needs to do a better job of informing both drivers and customers of the consequences of going "off the meter".

I inform customers of that when they ask to do a cash trip, they say where they are from, all the drivers do it because Uber's pay is so little and the drivers have nothing to lose.

So I lay the blame completely at Uber's feet. One for not compensating enough and two, for not informing customers and drivers.

New drivers think they are taxis, customers are largely ignorant and so forth.


Pirates are the reason why with a taxi the commercial insurance is on the vehicle 24/7. Not temporary like rideshare.

Uber is to blame 100%.


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## _Tron_

you might want add an image of some type to the op so that the showcase bot will place it on the front page. everyone should see this story.


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## Schmanthony

But how much was his fare on that ride?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Uber needs to do a better job of informing both drivers and customers of the consequences of going "off the meter".
> 
> I inform customers of that when they ask to do a cash trip, they say where they are from, all the drivers do it because Uber's pay is so little and the drivers have nothing to lose.
> 
> So I lay the blame completely at Uber's feet. One for not compensating enough and two, for not informing customers and drivers.
> 
> New drivers think they are taxis, customers are largely ignorant and so forth.
> 
> 
> Pirates are the reason why with a taxi the commercial insurance is on the vehicle 24/7. Not temporary like rideshare.
> 
> Uber is to blame 100%.


Warning,

Taking cash customers without booking through the app may result in multiple lawsuits and a $500,000s worth of bills and losing your driver's license until you pay it off.


I don't know if this is florida being particularly draconian or not.

It's tough to say.

But florida is fairly standard in terms of the insurance situation. They key is that the driver had ZERO active insurance at the time of the accident (because he had a cash customer) so he got the driving with no insurance ticket because the cop knew that the driver's personal insurance wasn't going to cover anything. (which they won't)


Really this is worst case scenerio, like three times over worst case scenerio.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Schmanthony said:


> But how much was his fare on that ride?


I'm willing to bet is was less than all way to fricken moon and back twicie (Yes the big greyish ball in the night sky)

That's about how far it would have been to be worth it.


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## Terrapin Bound

"Sorry, I can't do a cash ride. I keep everything in the app for liability purposes"

Repeat as necessary, eventually they stop asking.


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## TobyD

I don’t see this as Ubers fault. We are private contractors. What we do with our car in our own time has nothing to do with them, and it’s none of their business. I agree that Uber should pay more. They do say not to take cash trips, though on their part it’s for selfish reasons. But in the end, this is the drivers fault. Every driver knows it’s a bad idea to accept cash for a trip without the correct insurance. And it Portland where I drive, the city has made it illegal. By the way, that makes no sense, because meth and heroin are legal, you can walk around naked and poop on the sidewalk, but if you give a drunk guy a ride home in exchange for cash, you’ve broken the law 🤷‍♂️.


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## ANThonyBoreDaneCook

TobyD said:


> broken the law 🤷‍♂️.


The real crime in that state is "Portland Woman"
Yuuueeeeiiiccckk

Hey ladies. Let's put on a lil makeup, shave those legs and lose the flannel, eh?
Clean it up for Christ's sake...


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

TobyD said:


> I don’t see this as Ubers fault. We are private contractors. What we do with our car in our own time has nothing to do with them, and it’s none of their business. I agree that Uber should pay more. They do say not to take cash trips, though on their part it’s for selfish reasons. But in the end, this is the drivers fault. Every driver knows it’s a bad idea to accept cash for a trip without the correct insurance. And it Portland where I drive, the city has made it illegal. By the way, that makes no sense, because meth and heroin are legal, you can walk around naked and poop on the sidewalk, but if you give a drunk guy a ride home in exchange for cash, you’ve broken the law 🤷‍♂️.


It's not really uber's fault. But the thing is I see driver's pulling this shit all the time. It's really depressing how much danger people are putting themselves at financiall just to make a few bucks. I actually do have proper insurance to do it.

And to be fare to the state they arn't targeting uber/lyft drivers with these laws, they are just enforcing existing laws.

And it's also not the insurance companies fault either. It wouldn't be fair to them if someone could just buy a standard insurance policy, paint the car yellow and slap "taxi" on the side and expect the insurance company to pay out when there's a bad accident.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

ANThonyBoreDaneCook said:


> The real crime in that state is "Portland Woman"
> Yuuueeeeiiiccckk
> 
> Hey ladies. Let's put on a lil makeup, shave those legs and lose the flannel, eh?
> Clean it up for Christ's sake...
> 
> View attachment 666043


Better looking than Florida women, and i'd guess signficantly more teeth than florida women as well.


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## ANThonyBoreDaneCook

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Better looking than Florida women, and i'd guess signficantly more teeth than florida women as well.


I don't know, I've done well in Miami, Naples and Fort Lauderdale in the past, but I guess if you live in Jacksonville or Pompano Beach you may experience a few 2 ⭐'s


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## Uber's Guber

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> all the drivers do it because Uber's pay is so little and the drivers have nothing to lose.


No, all the drivers don't "do it." 
You're right that Uber pay sucks, but the repercussions for getting caught doing cash rides are well known where I'm at. The Transportation Authority is beholden to the taxi cartels, and sting operations are the norm here. You get arrested at gunpoint, your car is impounded, and the fines are huge.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Uber's Guber said:


> No, all the drivers don't "do it."
> You're right that Uber pay sucks, but the repercussions for getting caught doing cash rides are well known where I'm at. The Transportation Authority is beholden to the taxi cartels, and sting operations are the norm here. You get arrested at gunpoint, your car is impounded, and the fines are huge.


are they worse than this guy got after having an accident?

Losing his car is the LEAST of his problems.

Financially, I suspeect his best bet is to declare bankrupcty and never drive again.


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## Boca Ratman

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> so he got the driving with no insurance ticket because the cop knew that the driver's personal insurance wasn't going to cover anything. (which they won't)


I'd be willing to bet there's a little more to the story. The cop doesn't make this decision, either he had no insurance at all or we was charged with it later after an investigation. Dude should have just said he was being a good Samaritan and giving the guy a ride home. 😆 🤣 😂 




ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Uber is to blame 100%.


Oh come on, it is 100% the driver's fault. There's a lot that we can blame on uber but this is ridiculous. Get a grip on reality.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Boca Ratman said:


> I'd be willing to bet there's a little more to the story. The cop doesn't make this decision, either he had no insurance at all or we was charged with it later after an investigation. Dude should have just said he was being a good Samaritan and giving the guy a ride home. 😆 🤣 😂





If he had a cash customer he didn't have insurance. That's reality. And if the customer told the cop he was paying him to drive him it is the cops desicion. The cop can look at a policy and know the limits arn't high enough to drive passengers. That's all it takes to write someone up as violating insurance law.

This idiot has a paying customer in the car and only have 10/20/10 coverage. But the requirements for For Hire are 125/250/50.

Not hard for a cop to figure out, not hard at all. So it is the cops desicion if someone narced on the driver.


If you're caught driving customers for cash on a standard insurance policy your insurer will drop you like a sack of shit retroactivly. Opening all the parties involved to sue your ass broke. There's like 7 parties that could have reported him to the police for getting into an accident uninsured. The odds of keeping all of them silent is zero. On top of that you have to file the lawsuit against the person. Filing lawsuits involves.. THE LAW.

1 His passenger, 
2 his passenger's attorney, 
3 his insurance, 
4 his bank, 
5 the other guy, 
6 the other guy's insurance, 
7 the other guy's lawyer, 


none of them stand to gain as he's at fault and stand to gain/lose nothing from suing him.

Once his insurance started refusing coverage it's game ****ing over.

I think its very proboble that this took weeks to get this to point, for sure.. But it's inevitable.

My suspicion is that the customer told the cops the truth and it all started falling like dominoes.

I would never give people cash rides off app without insurance because I know the customers would never toe the story right and i'd never get away with it. And the worse the accident the worse the chance of them doing it. Since his passenger is suing for injuries.. it was a bad accident for sure.





Boca Ratman said:


> Oh come on, it is 100% the driver's fault. There's a lot that we can blame on uber but this is ridiculous. Get a grip on reality.


Yeah, he was. My point of this is telling people how terrible it is.


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## NOXDriver

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> If he had a cash customer he didn't have insurance. That's reality. And if the customer told the cop he was paying him to drive him it is the cops desicion. The cop can look at a policy and know the limits arn't high enough to drive passengers. That's all it takes to write someone up as violating insurance law.
> 
> This idiot has a paying customer in the car and only have 10/20/10 coverage. But the requirements for For Hire are 125/250/50.
> 
> Not hard for a cop to figure out, not hard at all. So it is the cops desicion if someone narced on the driver.
> 
> 
> If you're caught driving customers for cash on a standard insurance policy your insurer will drop you like a sack of shit retroactivly. Opening all the parties involved to sue your ass broke. There's like 7 parties that could have reported him to the police for getting into an accident uninsured. The odds of keeping all of them silent is zero. On top of that you have to file the lawsuit against the person. Filing lawsuits involves.. THE LAW.
> 
> 1 His passenger,
> 2 his passenger's attorney,
> 3 his insurance,
> 4 his bank,
> 5 the other guy,
> 6 the other guy's insurance,
> 7 the other guy's lawyer,
> 
> 
> none of them stand to gain as he's at fault and stand to gain/lose nothing from suing him.
> 
> Once his insurance started refusing coverage it's game ****ing over.
> 
> I think its very proboble that this took weeks to get this to point, for sure.. But it's inevitable.
> 
> My suspicion is that the customer told the cops the truth and it all started falling like dominoes.
> 
> I would never give people cash rides off app without insurance because I know the customers would never toe the story right and i'd never get away with it. And the worse the accident the worse the chance of them doing it. Since his passenger is suing for injuries.. it was a bad accident for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, he was. My point of this is telling people how terrible it is.


BULL. SHIT.

Suing you means nothing. A judgement is a piece of paper, not like the Sheriff shows up and takes your shit. Well, they can, but the second the judge signs the first judgement order you file bankruptcy and not much bad will happen to you. Heck most fools would probably see their credit scores INCREASE.

Google: JUDGEMENT PROOF

Source: ran a small business. sued customer, got several useless pieces of paper to show for it.


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## ThrowInTheTowel

Boca Ratman said:


> I'd be willing to bet there's a little more to the story. The cop doesn't make this decision, either he had no insurance at all or we was charged with it later after an investigation. Dude should have just said he was being a good Samaritan and giving the guy a ride home. 😆 🤣 😂
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on, it is 100% the driver's fault. There's a lot that we can blame on uber but this is ridiculous. Get a grip on reality.


I agree much more to the story. This guy had no insurance at all that's exactly why his car was not paid off by the insurance company cause his coverage elapsed and he still had payments on it. Repo man was probably looking for his car also.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

NOXDriver said:


> BULL. SHIT.
> 
> Suing you means nothing. A judgement is a piece of paper, not like the Sheriff shows up and takes your shit. Well, they can, but the second the judge signs the first judgement order you file bankruptcy and not much bad will happen to you. Heck most fools would probably see their credit scores INCREASE.
> 
> Google: JUDGEMENT PROOF
> 
> Source: ran a small business. sued customer, got several useless pieces of paper to show for it.


OK I looked into this.

The problem isn't the judgement. I don't even think this needs a judgement to be completely honest. The problem with this is it becomes a DMV issue to reinstate your license. Even if you had the judgement discharged in a bankruptcy I KNOW the florida DMV won't just let it slide.

Florida actually loves to suspend peoples licenses to force payment for things without being able to go bankrupt... Kinda a dick way to handle it but I personally approve. Quite possible that if he owes enough money someone refused to aggree to a payment plan just to be an asshole and will only accept complete payment in full.

This is the letter/form to reinstate a license after an accident with damages/injuries and no insurance.

I mean... it appears as if you need to either pay in full or get all parties to agree to a payment plan. I can see people not agreeing with a payment plan just to be a jackass. I know I wouldn't.




FR100


_FR 100


All vehicles operating on Florida roads must maintain valid insurance. If you or your vehicle were not insured on the date of the crash, you will need to provide to us:_

_Signed releases from the other parties involved in the crash, using a release form or a monthly payment agreement form *OR* post a security deposit in the amount of damages listed on the letter you received; *AND*_
_An SR22 insurance certificate purchased from your insurance company, maintained for three years from your original suspension date;_
_If your license and/or registration are already suspended, you will also be required to pay a $15 reinstatement fee._









https://www.flhsmv.gov/pdf/forms/74036.pdf




*If any installment of this note is not paid when due, the entire unpaid amount hereof shall become due and payable forthwith at the election of the holder of this note.* It is further understood and agreed that suspended driver shall pay all costs and reasonable attorney fees incurred by the other party for the collection of this note. By the execution and acceptance of this agreement the suspended driver and the other party each agree that the same may be used in the administration of the Florida Financial Responsibility Law. It is hereby understood and agreed that in the event that suspended driver defaults in the payment of any installation due under this agreement, *that the driving and registration privileges of said person shall not be suspended until the balance of the amount due the other party is reduced to judgment.* It is therefore understood and agreed by both parties to this agreement that *u*_*pon payment in full of the sum herein specified*_, the suspended driver shall receive release from any and all other claims, causes of action , and demands whatsoever, on account of the damage , loss or injury resulting from said crash


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## Los Angeles driver

ANThonyBoreDaneCook said:


> The real crime in that state is "Portland Woman"
> Yuuueeeeiiiccckk
> 
> Hey ladies. Let's put on a lil makeup, shave those legs and lose the flannel, eh?
> Clean it up for Christ's sake...
> 
> View attachment 666043


Holy Crap. There's a guy at my work who looks just like that!


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## June132017

Everybody is driving crazy causing all these accidents. I guess in Orlando it's a bad bet to be driving anything at this point.


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## Los Angeles driver

June132017 said:


> Everybody is driving crazy causing all these accidents. I guess in Orlando it's a bad bet to be driving anything at this point.


Orlando is one of the most ghetto places I've ever been. So many deviants there. Well, Disney, so it fits.
Just ask @LAndreas. He's a deviant. GROOMER.


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## Ummm5487

All this is worst case scenario nonsense the majority of people world will not come to an end by doing a ride off the meter and you have just as much headache if you get in a crash while on the meter.. you still have to inform your insurance company that you was doing rideshare trips which more than likely they will drop you like a hot potato soon as you let them know that


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Ummm5487 said:


> All this is worst case scenario nonsense the majority of people world will not come to an end by doing a ride off the meter and you have just as much headache if you get in a crash while on the meter.. you still have to inform your insurance company that you was doing rideshare trips which more than likely they will drop you like a hot potato soon as you let them know that


Accidents happen, florida drivers are pretty awful. And this is for a guy who has been to umpteen countries.. florida is pretty much the worst.

And not everyone forgoes rideshare insurance. Some honest people actually get it.

Not the guy I was talking about.


But keep in mind this was an accident with a customer in the car on an illegal cash trip.

Florida is probobly higher up on the punishments. Florida is pretty draconian when it comes to law and Order.

But it is what i've been saying. God only knows how much this dude has paid out and god only knows how much more he has to pay out. And he was a fairly well dressed dude who had to go from the bus station to a motel on skid row.


Accidents happen, i've had several over the years.

1. Got a bumper ripped off while parked at a 711
2. Rear ended at a red light (hit and run)
3. I went straight on green while a guy went left on green in the apposing traffic, no he wasn't signaling because florida.
4. While in the left turn lane and signaling and making a left turn someone tried to pass me and go straight.
5. Immediatly after telling a passenger not to exit out the left side of the car a customer did and the door got ripped off.'

Deductiible paid = $0.
Points on my license = $0
odds of having another accident?


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## tohunt4me

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> So far...
> 
> His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
> The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
> His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
> The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
> And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
> His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
> And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.
> 
> And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.
> 
> And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.
> 
> 
> On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> (the pic has nothing to do with anything, except making this eligible for front page)


I LIKE the Pic. !


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## ObeyTheNumbers

Boca Ratman said:


> I'd be willing to bet there's a little more to the story. The cop doesn't make this decision, either he had no insurance at all or we was charged with it later after an investigation. Dude should have just said he was being a good Samaritan and giving the guy a ride home. 😆 🤣 😂
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on, it is 100% the driver's fault. There's a lot that we can blame on uber but this is ridiculous. Get a grip on reality.


Uber is to blame 100% because they don't adequately inform drivers during the training process what NOT to do, that the commercial insurance is only on the trip, NOT on the vehicle. That Uber's are NOT taxis and Uber drivers (or anyone really) are not allowed to be "vehicles for hire" and take compensation for providing rides without abiding by the laws in their area requiring commercial level insurance.

They also don't have a mechanism in place so riders can be informed and report any driver soliciting "off the meter" trips.

I've already talked to the cops about this and they say Uber is shifting the burden of enforcement onto them by keeping both drivers and customers in the dark. Created a huge amount of ignorant criminals.

The problem is that in the course of tripping with customers, they have further trips or essential need for your vehicle or airport or medical runs and want a REAL HUMAN to deal with and coordinate with, to get a 'feel' that the driver will indeed show up on time as expected and not leave them hanging.

So since the Uber system of chosing that particular driver is not 100% perfect, customers and driver find it better to just go off the meter.

Now Uber has somewhat improved things, I think they are using high frequency sound for pax phone to talk to drivers phones when in close proximity when ordering because phone GPS's sometimes are off a bit and no WiFi's around. (Why I restart both phones) But still it likes to retain control and send another driver despite one being right next to pax that already took them once before (no bad stars). So five minutes away from other drivers seems to work. But then only the same driver to pax 4 consecutive times, after that it chooses another driver unless there isn't any within 20 minute range.

Uber is just looking at the macro level where there are so many drivers and riders that private rides are not a concern. Numbers overwhelm solve all problems. But us drivers know differently because we are out doing it for a living. But Uber just sees us living types as a stepping stone to full public ridesharing, why they only pay enough to go one direction, not back to pickup location.

So yes Uber is to blame and it just doesn't come from me.

It's because Uber solicits new drivers who are ignorant and they immediately (and wrongly) believe they are taxis. Because drivers are independent and there isn't anyone guiding them, start taking people around for cash.

So Uber needs to require the training course first before allowing drivers to drive and inform them of the situation. Ditto informing customers who are largely ignorant as well, think Uber's are taxis.

Also Uber needs to do a better job of allowing a particular driver to pickup a particular pax if they so request it.


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## Heisenburger

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> the driving with no insurance ticket because the cop knew that the driver's personal insurance wasn't going to cover anything. (which they won't)


I don't believe this is accurate. An auto insurance company refusing to pay part or all of a given claim has *nothing* to do with the various state laws that basically make it illegal to operate a vehicle on public roadways without basic (minimum) coverages.


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## micmufman

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> So far...
> 
> His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
> The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
> His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
> The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
> And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
> His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
> And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.
> 
> And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.
> 
> And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.
> 
> 
> On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> (the pic has nothing to do with anything, except making this eligible for front page)


Anyone that does this gig without proper insurance is absolutely insane and get what they deserve. I have more insurance on my car just to make sure I can’t be hurt financially otherwise. I also follow all applicable laws. That person has no one to blame but themselves.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Heisenburger said:


> I don't believe this is accurate. An auto insurance company refusing to pay part or all of a given claim has *nothing* to do with the various state laws that basically make it illegal to operate a vehicle on public roadways without basic (minimum) coverages.


i understand, but when someone’s insurance refuses to cover min limits for cause doesn’t that indicate that they don’t have insurance?

Also the moment they put a customer paying for s ride in the car they came under much higher for/hire requirements. 10/20/10 will not satisfy 50/125/300 requirements or whatever it is.



having a cash customer in the car makes you fall under the taxi/town car insurance and licensing requirements. Because that’s how it works. Uber drivers are only Uber drivers if they are logged into the app and are assigned a fare. If they arnt assigned to s fare their insurance lacks the required minimums to drive passengers for compensation. And if they arnt logged in at all Uber/Lyft have to provide nothing.


the police could cite them on not having the proper insurance to drive passengers for profit. 



Also if their policy was retroactively canceled then they did not in fact have coverage during the incident.
Retroactive cancelations normally require fraud.


Such as deliberately driving on insurance you know is wortheless.


There’s several different ways this could blow up in their face. Depending on who realizes what when.


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## Heisenburger

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> when someone’s insurance refuses to cover min limits for cause doesn’t that indicate that they don’t have insurance?


No.

Hypothetically: My property damage liability is $50k. I slam into a Bugatti or Lamborghini and the damages are $70k. No judge is going to agree with a beat cop alleging that I don't have (any) coverage.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> having a cash customer in the car makes you fall under the taxi/town car insurance and licensing requirements.


My wife's friend pays me $30 to take her 13 miles from her home to airport several times annually. That would never show up anywhere as taxi.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> the police could cite them on not having the proper insurance to drive passengers for profit


 Thankfully, citations don't equal convictions. Citations are merely the first step in the process to convict.


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## Invisible

Boca Ratman said:


> I'd be willing to bet there's a little more to the story. The cop doesn't make this decision, either he had no insurance at all or we was charged with it later after an investigation. Dude should have just said he was being a good Samaritan and giving the guy a ride home. 😆 🤣 😂
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on, it is 100% the driver's fault. There's a lot that we can blame on uber but this is ridiculous. Get a grip on reality.


He could have had insurance but not for business purposes. If he was driving pax and didn’t inform his insurance company, then they don’t have to pay out.

I despise Uber but I agree, they’re NOT responsible. Even if they paid drivers good, there’d still be drivers doing cash rides. I got a cash offer once but declined because for me as a woman it was a safety issue.


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## W00dbutcher

Ignorance of the commercial driving laws is not ubers fault. It's your for not following individual state regulations. People arr not smart enough to ask how or if i can do this like a taxi.

Its a job or business. Most states require licenses for any business. Even it's only $13 a year to sell your services as a poop picker upper.

So ya... Your fault totally.



Now the smart drivers who do aquire the proper needs to become a private taxi are also doing this as a full-time hustler. But also know you will grid even harder then ubering to make it work.

I drove 88 miles yesterday.
Total between uber and private taxi, $527.

Today, $150 3 trips to the airport from last night runs. Havent even turned on uber. (26 miles round trip back to the hotel)


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Heisenburger said:


> No.
> 
> Hypothetically: My property damage liability is $50k. I slam into a Bugatti or Lamborghini and the damages are $70k. No judge is going to agree with a beat cop alleging that I don't have (any) coverage.
> 
> My wife's friend pays me $30 to take her 13 miles from her home to airport several times annually. That would never show up anywhere as taxi.
> 
> Thankfully, citations don't equal convictions. Citations are merely the first step in the process to convict.


you still didnt Get it. If my antique carriage got hit for $70,000 in damage and the at fault party paid out state minimums then his insurance paid out the state minimums.

however if the at fault party insurance paid out zero and said the at fault drivers insurance was cancelled retroactively for fraud then did they have insurance?



Your not getting my point.

if I get pulled over in an empty and unmarked car I legally need 10/20/10 coverage or my license is suspended and I go to jail.

However if I have my sign up that says taxi on the roof and someone in my car who says they are a customer I need 100/150/300 or whatever the heck it is. If I all I had was 10/20/10 I am in violation of 100/150/300 (or whatever it is) in order to be a towncar/taxi driver.

There’s an entirely separate law applying to taxis etc. it applies to Uber as well, Uber provides liability in Florida as long as you are logged in. But not to the extent that you are required to have to transport passengers until you start a trip on Uber.


----------



## Buckiemohawk

Number one he didnt tell his insurance company at all. Number 2 he was at fault. When you do anything in your car and especially driver people around take it slow and easy. No speeding No weaving just easy stay in one lane. Also he already had a job and thought this would be a great side gig. But its not a great side gig. Its not a side gig for extra money there was a reason there was serious regulation put through by cities and states on taxis. Instead of insisting on cash rides make them tip up front


----------



## Heisenburger

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> If I all I had was 10/20/10 I am in violation of 100/150/300 (or whatever it is) in order to be a towncar/taxi driver.


That's called underinsured. That's different from uninsured. At a minimum, it's an important distinction here in Georgia and, despite how weird Florida legislation is in many ways, I seriously suspect it's an important distinction there too.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

2 separate laws actually.

Not having insurance is isn’t actually a crime, you just lose your license If your caught driving and in a royal civil liability pickle if you get into an accident.


However driving passengers for compensation without 125/250/300 (I honestly have no idea how much) insurance is a crime in Florida, a second degree misdemeanor. An actual factual criminal violation.


----------



## Heisenburger

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Not having insurance is isn’t actually a crime, you just lose your license If your caught driving and in a royal civil liability pickle if you get into an accident.


Also a misdemeanor (ie. crime).


----------



## Hikerman

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Uber needs to do a better job of informing both drivers and customers of the consequences of going "off the meter".
> 
> I inform customers of that when they ask to do a cash trip, they say where they are from, all the drivers do it because Uber's pay is so little and the drivers have nothing to lose.
> 
> So I lay the blame completely at Uber's feet. One for not compensating enough and two, for not informing customers and drivers.
> 
> New drivers think they are taxis, customers are largely ignorant and so forth.
> 
> 
> Pirates are the reason why with a taxi the commercial insurance is on the vehicle 24/7. Not temporary like rideshare.
> 
> Uber is to blame 100%.


So. When I first started driving I had commercial insurance on my cars. And it only cost me 40 dollars a month more. Well worth the extra protection


----------



## Ping me

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> So far...
> 
> His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
> The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
> His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
> The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
> And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
> His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
> And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.
> 
> And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.
> 
> And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.
> 
> 
> On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> (the pic has nothing to do with anything, except making this eligible for front page)


I couldn’t help noticed that vehicle has two doors and the license plate is not in from United States I find it hard to believe that an Uber driver was driving that vehicle how is that vehicle able to be on a platform when it only had two doors


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Maybe because I only used the photo so the post would be eligible for the front page. If you ready my original post you’ll see I said that.


----------



## wallyruss1958

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Uber needs to do a better job of informing both drivers and customers of the consequences of going "off the meter".
> 
> I inform customers of that when they ask to do a cash trip, they say where they are from, all the drivers do it because Uber's pay is so little and the drivers have nothing to lose.
> 
> So I lay the blame completely at Uber's feet. One for not compensating enough and two, for not informing customers and drivers.
> 
> New drivers think they are taxis, customers are largely ignorant and so forth.
> 
> 
> Pirates are the reason why with a taxi the commercial insurance is on the vehicle 24/7. Not temporary like rideshare.
> 
> Uber is to blame 100%.


You're an idiot. UBER is clear in the agreement t hat you agreed to. Whether you like it or not cash rides are stealing from UBER


----------



## W00dbutcher

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Maybe because I only used the photo so the post would be eligible for the front page. If you ready my original post you’ll see I said that.


So its not true representation of an uber car?

Interesting


----------



## W00dbutcher

wallyruss1958 said:


> You're an idiot. UBER is clear in the agreement t hat you agreed to. Whether you like it or not cash rides are stealing from UBER


We are independent contractors with the ability to secure our own rides without violation of the uber "agreement."

That's the hole point of commercial vehicles.


Having the passenger cancel the ride and then you take them for cash is against Ubers agreement.


----------



## Cat1015

And in other news, water is wet…


----------



## Lyle

I haven't driven since the Scamdemic and am on disability now. Whenever someone would ask me to drive off the app I would laugh and say no way there will be no insurance if something happens. Most were reasonable and understood . Others weren't so agreeable they are cheapos anyway. I can't imagine anyone taking that risk for a few pennies. BTW Uber drove my Honda CRV into the ground and when I added up all of the additional repairs by using my vehicle as a Taxi to profit the overlords at uber. Gasoline, increased maintenance ,hours on the clock I probably didn't even break even.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

wallyruss1958 said:


> You're an idiot. UBER is clear in the agreement t hat you agreed to. Whether you like it or not cash rides are stealing from UBER


Your the idiot. Lengthy and complicated contracts are beyond many peoples comprehension levels. They often skip the fine print and sign so they can start driving and earning for their next crack rock.

Every new driver I tutored starting on Uber all assume they are now taxis, it's because they don't understand the on again/off again commercial insurance aspect of things. And for the most part so are the pax who ask me to go off the meter thinking it's ok, because Uber driver somewhere else is ignorant or crooked also.

It's the ignorance that's the problem and the blame falls 100% at Uber's feet because it's their responsibility to properly inform how the ridesharing thing works, that all trips must go through the app.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

W00dbutcher said:


> We are independent contractors with the ability to secure our own rides without violation of the uber "agreement."
> 
> That's the hole point of commercial vehicles.
> 
> 
> Having the passenger cancel the ride and then you take them for cash is against Ubers agreement.


But according to law, your required to maintain active commercial level insurance, which Uber is providing, during the trip. Else if you maintain commercial level insurance in lew of personal vehicle insurance then your fine.

Question is of course, will Uber allow commercial level insurance in lew of personal vehicle insurance so that one can switch to being a taxi to an Uber when the driver wants?

If so this will work for customers who want or need a particular driver or vehicle. It will erode Uber's customers but they are experiencing that anyway from pirates and referrals


----------



## Nique0201

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> So far...
> 
> His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
> The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
> His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
> The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
> And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
> His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
> And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.
> 
> And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.
> 
> And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.
> 
> 
> On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> (the pic has nothing to do with anything, except making this eligible for front page)


Simple workaround honestly.... Don't take any cash until you make it to the destination. Until you accept payment it's just giving someone a ride. And obviously don't have any agreement in text or anything. All verbal nothing incriminating. Then it's the riders word vs yours.... If you accept cash at the end obviously you got there safe so no foul... And if you crash mid ride there was no transaction so no foul.


----------



## W00dbutcher

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> But according to law, your required to maintain active commercial level insurance, which Uber is providing, during the trip. Else if you maintain commercial level insurance in lew of personal vehicle insurance then your fine.
> 
> Question is of course, will Uber allow commercial level insurance in lew of personal vehicle insurance so that one can switch to being a taxi to an Uber when the driver wants?
> 
> If so this will work for customers who want or need a particular driver or vehicle. It will erode Uber's customers but they are experiencing that anyway from pirates and referrals


There are taxis that are not lettered on the outside because they are private, regardless if they are a leased vehicle or privately owned. I don't think it matters to Uber because I know there's people in my market that have this same situation.

Also, all black accounts must have commercial insurance. No personal allowed. 

So I'd say really Uber doesn't care what kind of insurance you have, because their insurance is so damn shitty you're going to use your own anyway.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

Nique0201 said:


> Simple workaround honestly.... Don't take any cash until you make it to the destination. Until you accept payment it's just giving someone a ride. And obviously don't have any agreement in text or anything. All verbal nothing incriminating. Then it's the riders word vs yours.... If you accept cash at the end obviously you got there safe so no foul... And if you crash mid ride there was no transaction so no foul.


That doesn't work, cops stung Uber drivers with a 'tip jar' picking up drunks at bars.

Drivers were claiming it's a free ride, but of course the drunk is going to feel compelled to tip.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> But according to law, your required to maintain active commercial level insurance, which Uber is providing, during the trip. Else if you maintain commercial level insurance in lew of personal vehicle insurance then your fine.
> 
> Question is of course, will Uber allow commercial level insurance in lew of personal vehicle insurance so that one can switch to being a taxi to an Uber when the driver wants?
> 
> If so this will work for customers who want or need a particular driver or vehicle. It will erode Uber's customers but they are experiencing that anyway from pirates and referrals


Yes they do allow it. Oldfart has a commercial policy, I have a commercial policy on my personal vehicle.

That’s two I know of immediately off the top of my head.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

W00dbutcher said:


> There are taxis that are not lettered on the outside because they are private, regardless if they are a leased vehicle or privately owned. I don't think it matters to Uber because I know there's people in my market that have this same situation.
> 
> Also, all black accounts must have commercial insurance. No personal allowed.
> 
> So I'd say really Uber doesn't care what kind of insurance you have, because their insurance is so damn shitty you're going to use your own anyway.


What I'm thinks is getting commercial insurance and then switching between Uber and taxi as need fits. All that's required here is a sign saying 'taxi' in the window, which can be flipped with an Uber sign.

I asked Uber about this when one could still get a human with a brain on the phone, didn't get a clear answer.

Uber says 'no taxis or other commercially branded vehicles' but mine wouldn't be branded during an Uber trip.

Uber was all at war once with taxis but now embracing them.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> What I'm thinks is getting commercial insurance and then switching between Uber and taxi as need fits. All that's required here is a sign saying 'taxi' in the window, which can be flipped with an Uber sign.
> 
> I asked Uber about this when one could still get a human with a brain on the phone, didn't get a clear answer.
> 
> Uber says 'no taxis or other commercially branded vehicles' but mine wouldn't be branded during an Uber trip.
> 
> Uber was all at war once with taxis but now embracing them.


MO


Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Yes they do allow it. Oldfart has a commercial policy, I have a commercial policy on my personal vehicle.
> 
> That’s two I know of immediately off the top of my head.


Wouldn't mind providing info how to go about getting it? Seems many major companies don't do commercial insurance.

At least the one I have doesn't or doesn't want to.


----------



## Heisenburger

W00dbutcher said:


> Having the passenger cancel the ride and then you take them for cash is against Ubers agreement.


Fact!



ObeyTheNumbers said:


> that all trips must go through the app.


 Nope. If a customer and a driver "meet" and discuss (like text), entirely independent of the Uber app itself, it's definitely *not* a violation of the agreement with Uber.



ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Question is of course, will Uber allow commercial level insurance in lew of personal vehicle insurance so that one can switch to being a taxi to an Uber when the driver wants?


 That's not Uber's decision.


----------



## ZippityDoDa

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Uber needs to do a better job of informing both drivers and customers of the consequences of going "off the meter".
> 
> I inform customers of that when they ask to do a cash trip, they say where they are from, all the drivers do it because Uber's pay is so little and the drivers have nothing to lose.
> 
> So I lay the blame completely at Uber's feet. One for not compensating enough and two, for not informing customers and drivers.
> 
> New drivers think they are taxis, customers are largely ignorant and so forth.
> 
> 
> Pirates are the reason why with a taxi the commercial insurance is on the vehicle 24/7. Not temporary like rideshare.
> 
> Uber is to blame 100%.



No, it’s up to the driver to not be ignorant. ANYTIME you drive with someone else in your car you are likely to be held liable if an accident occurs. AND if that person is a stranger (because yes, just a few conversations does not make them your friend) they will sue the pants (so to speak) off of you.

ANOTHER suggestion: don’t let passengers tell you what’s okay (speed, cash, no car seat, child without parent, etc.). It’s up to you to take care of you and all the things that can follow from it.

Uber is not your friend or parent. Uber is a business that offers you a chance to have a business (no matter how profitable or not). You have to use your 2 cents worth of logic.

I never give cash rides because someone doesn’t have an account, lost their phone, their battery died, it’s more money because it’s cash, etc.). Uber said no, and they should. You have the ride because of them and your insurance would never be enough for some unfortunate accident that will follow you for life (say the passenger has a child without car seat, have wreck, child injured badly or killed etc.). Or, what if that passenger was picked up at some venue for cash you thought was a good deal then he car jacks you or worse? Now what? You don’t even know who they were.

Don’t be greedy… bad things can happen.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> MO
> 
> 
> Wouldn't mind providing info how to go about getting it? Seems many major companies don't do commercial insurance.
> 
> At least the one I have doesn't or doesn't want to.


google “taxi insurance “ in your state and you’ll find providers. They won’t be the same companies that sell private insurance.


----------



## Heisenburger

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> google “taxi insurance “ in your state and you’ll find providers. They won’t be the same companies that sell private insurance.


Many are the same names. Progressive is an example of one who offers commercial livery insurance in Georgia.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

Heisenburger said:


> Many are the same names. Progressive is an example of one who offers commercial livery insurance in Georgia.


Yea I found one owned by the same company I already use, funny the moron at the end of the phone didn't know, or perhaps didn't want me to know.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

ZippityDoDa said:


> No, it’s up to the driver to not be ignorant. ANYTIME you drive with someone else in your car you are likely to be held liable if an accident occurs. AND if that person is a stranger (because yes, just a few conversations does not make them your friend) they will sue the pants (so to speak) off of you.
> 
> ANOTHER suggestion: don’t let passengers tell you what’s okay (speed, cash, no car seat, child without parent, etc.). It’s up to you to take care of you and all the things that can follow from it.
> 
> Uber is not your friend or parent. Uber is a business that offers you a chance to have a business (no matter how profitable or not). You have to use your 2 cents worth of logic.
> 
> I never give cash rides because someone doesn’t have an account, lost their phone, their battery died, it’s more money because it’s cash, etc.). Uber said no, and they should. You have the ride because of them and your insurance would never be enough for some unfortunate accident that will follow you for life (say the passenger has a child without car seat, have wreck, child injured badly or killed etc.). Or, what if that passenger was picked up at some venue for cash you thought was a good deal then he car jacks you or worse? Now what? You don’t even know who they were.
> 
> Don’t be greedy… bad things can happen.



What your talking about is common sense, which we all know the saying...

'common sense is the most distributed commodity in the world because every man is convinced he has enough of it'

What I'm talking about is ignorance, that know nothing's are driving like they are taxis, taking their friends around for cash, just because they have the Uber sticker in the window. This is Ubers fault as this is a common occurrence, they know about it, just decline to educate.

Ubers negligence. The guy about should be sending his lawyers in.


----------



## Heisenburger

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> I asked Uber about this when one could still get a human with a brain on the phone


Did you use one of these to make that call?


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

Heisenburger said:


> Fact!
> 
> Nope. If a customer and a driver "meet" and discuss (like text), entirely independent of the Uber app itself, it's definitely *not* a violation of the agreement with Uber.
> 
> That's not Uber's decision.


Yes if you steal Ubers trip that certainly is a violation of the Uber agreement.

If a customer hooks up with a driver and they take them without going through Uber, then the driver must carry commercial insurance according to law.

But what if the former Uber customer likes you or needs your vehicle for a future fare, one is basically stealing the Uber customer at that point if they don't both go through the Uber app?

The customer has a choice too or would Uber frown on that?

Also if an Uber driver who carries commercial insurance now has the ability to steal Uber customers, does Uber give a ratts ass?

They do know now because the apps are likely sending high frequency sound to one another when in proximity.

Uber was experimenting with auto pin number activation because for awhile the two phones got near the pin was auto activated on my driver app.


----------



## Heisenburger

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Yes if you steal Ubers trip that certainly is a violation of the Uber agreement.


 Agreed. That's why I definitely didn't intend to imply "Uber customer" when I wrote "customer".



ObeyTheNumbers said:


> But what if the former Uber customer likes you or needs your vehicle for a future fare, one is basically stealing the Uber customer at that point if they don't both go through the Uber app?


 This is by far the most common scenario for me. The principles are:


Every transaction/ride request stands uniquely on its own.
Neither Uber, nor Lyft, nor Joe's Transport, nor National Taxicab, nor Ola owns any given customer for life.
Based on these principles, there's no such concept as customer theft. No court would uphold that any single company owns all of a retail customer's transactions for life or even any fixed time period like year or month.

The *only* situation where it's a violation is to start a specific transaction on their platform and then "convert" that transaction elsewhere, effectively using them to broker the connection without giving them a cut of the action.


----------



## W00dbutcher

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> But what if the former Uber customer likes you or needs your vehicle for a future fare, one is basically stealing the Uber customer at that point if they don't both go through the Uber app?


How is it stealing? There's no exclusivity or non-compete clause or contract between driver or pax. 

One simply choose a different company, it could be lyft or Jonny Cab. 



ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Also if an Uber driver who carries commercial insurance now has the ability to steal Uber customers, does Uber give a ratts ass?


Seeing how all black accounts hold commercial insurance, they are aware of the possible engagement. They may not like it, but there's nothing they can do about it.

Also, what @Heisenburger wrote.


----------



## Heisenburger

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> If a customer hooks up with a driver and they take them without going through Uber, then the driver must carry commercial insurance according to law.


True, but as with many things, ignorance usually wins. Ignorant customers and/or ignorant drivers allow these underinsured trips to transpire. The vast majority are successful and no worries.

Am I personally paying $6000 annually for a commercial livery policy just to take a half dozen people to the airport once a month each at $40 apiece? Hell naw!


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

Heisenburger said:


> Agreed. That's why I definitely didn't intend to imply "Uber customer" when I wrote "customer".
> 
> This is by far the most common scenario for me. The principles are:
> 
> 
> Every transaction/ride request stands uniquely on its own.
> Neither Uber, nor Lyft, nor Joe's Transport, nor National Taxicab, nor Ola owns any given customer for life.
> Based on these principles, there's no such concept as customer theft. No court would uphold that any single company owns all of a retail customer's transactions for life or even any fixed time period like year or month.
> 
> The *only* situation where it's a violation is to start a specific transaction on their platform and then "convert" that transaction elsewhere, effectively using them to broker the connection without giving them a cut of the action.


Right, but as Uber I would be upset that our commercial drivers are taking the first trip using our app and all concurrent trips with that customer off the app. I may not be able to do anything legally, but I can cut off or reduce those drivers from future trips (or leads) to avoid erosion of market share.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

Heisenburger said:


> True, but as with many things, ignorance usually wins. Ignorant customers and/or ignorant drivers allow these underinsured trips to transpire. The vast majority are successful and no worries.
> 
> Am I personally paying $6000 annually for a commercial livery policy just to take a half dozen people to the airport once a month each at $40 apiece? Hell naw!


But what if hotels, resorts and businesses were referring you and thus allowed you to preschedule rides, that the trip should be long enough that you make good profit even at taxi rates. You think Uber would take a s*** fit that the same customer I took earlier as an Uber for short trip scheduled through the hotel to do a long trip with me as my business?


----------



## W00dbutcher

Heisenburger said:


> Am I personally paying $6000 annually for a commercial livery policy just to take a half dozen people to the airport once a month each at $40 apiece? Hell naw!











$7 
Shipping $7
Toal $14

I made $275 in 5 hours with that sign. No asking or verbal soliciting while sitting at either the hotel or the concert waiting for an uber ping. Turn off when engaged with uber customers. 

That 1 night.


----------



## W00dbutcher

Also, i never push the taxi service. 1 simple business card attached to the back of the headrest stating this is a privately licensed and insured vehicle for hire.

Just because it has a phone number and name for contact information doesn't mean anything.


----------



## Heisenburger

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> but I can cut off


Have they cut off their nose to spite their face yet?


----------



## Heisenburger

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> But what if hotels, resorts and businesses were referring you and thus allowed you to preschedule rides, that the trip should be long enough that you make good profit even at taxi rates.


*If* I wanted to pursue this as such, I would ensure that I had more than enough business to justify the huge cost of commercial livery insurance.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

Heisenburger said:


> *If* I wanted to pursue this as such, I would ensure that I had more than enough business to justify the huge cost of commercial livery insurance.


My current level of private customers per month can cover that, but it's a pain in the ass having to force the trip through Uber. Not to mention they take so much for a trip I provided and I get diddly squat, won't raise prices to offset the Biden gas hike.

So the next logical step is to do both.


----------



## W00dbutcher

Also, one of the advantages of being on a black account even if you're doing X only is the following.

















Black gets a booking fee. So an extra $2. 24 for say 10,325 rides in 4 years is an extra $23,128. And I don't know how many of those are airport which is actually $3.25 more per ride then X.


----------



## Heisenburger

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> but it's a pain in the ass having to force the trip through Uber.


I don't understand. Can you expand on this?


----------



## W00dbutcher

Heisenburger said:


> Have they cut off their nose to spite their face yet?


Without being a black account, do you get normal price as an X account or an XL account or is it higher because you carry your own commercial insurance?


----------



## TeaintheD

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> So far...
> 
> His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
> The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
> His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
> The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
> And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
> His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
> And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.
> 
> And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.
> 
> And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.
> 
> 
> On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> (the pic has nothing to do with anything, except making this eligible for front page)


This is what insurance is for! If he had insurance, the pay for totaled vehicles. Hard way to learn a lesson. #adulting


----------



## TeaintheD

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Uber needs to do a better job of informing both drivers and customers of the consequences of going "off the meter".
> 
> I inform customers of that when they ask to do a cash trip, they say where they are from, all the drivers do it because Uber's pay is so little and the drivers have nothing to lose.
> 
> So I lay the blame completely at Uber's feet. One for not compensating enough and two, for not informing customers and drivers.
> 
> New drivers think they are taxis, customers are largely ignorant and so forth.
> 
> 
> Pirates are the reason why with a taxi the commercial insurance is on the vehicle 24/7. Not temporary like rideshare.
> 
> Uber is to blame 100%.


Carry insurance, that's literally what is for!



_Tron_ said:


> you might want add an image of some type to the op so that the showcase bot will place it on the front page. everyone should see this story.


Everyone needs to see this story so they understand the importance of being responsible. This is the result of no insurance, time to pay the piper


----------



## Heisenburger

W00dbutcher said:


> Without being a black account, do you get normal price as an X account or an XL account or is it higher because you carry your own commercial insurance?


I thought you answered that with your $2.24 screenshot above. No?


----------



## W00dbutcher

Heisenburger said:


> I thought you answered that with your $2.24 screenshot above. No?


My x dont get a bonus, just my black. Your in a different market is why i asked.


----------



## Heisenburger

W00dbutcher said:


> My x dont get a bonus, just my black. Your in a different market is why i asked.


I have no clue because I'm only X. I don't know any X drivers around here.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

Heisenburger said:


> I don't understand. Can you expand on this?


In areas were not a whole lot of Uber drivers they've learned how to pick up customers on their own schedule by understanding how the algorithm works for the most part.


----------



## W00dbutcher

Heisenburger said:


> I have no clue because I'm only X. I don't know any X drivers around here.


Does it say booking fee on your pay breakdown? If not then no. 

I was just wondering cuz it says you're from Atlanta. They do shit different in every Market. And it wouldn't surprise me Uber would make that change from Market to Market.


----------



## Heisenburger

W00dbutcher said:


> Also, one of the advantages of being on a black account even if you're doing X only is the following.


Are these back to back requests for the exact same customer and trip? If so, why do they both state UberX if one is actually Black?


----------



## W00dbutcher

Heisenburger said:


> Are these back to back requests for the exact same customer and trip? If so, why do they both state UberX if one is actually Black?


Yup they are. Because it is an uber x. Even on Uber black it denotes if it's an X, XL, comfort, or horse and buggy if you have that service available.


----------



## Heisenburger

W00dbutcher said:


> Does it say booking fee on your pay breakdown?


3 UberX trips selected from my Sunday June 19 activities:


----------



## Heisenburger

W00dbutcher said:


> Black gets a booking fee. So an extra $2. 24


Are you *assuming* that the $2.24 difference between the total driver compensation on each of the two requests is actually the booking fee itself? Or do you have any *evidence* of the difference?

I've noticed over the years that assumptions often get me into trouble.


----------



## W00dbutcher

Heisenburger said:


> 3 UberX trips selected from my Sunday June 19 activities:


Ya that's what uber charged the customer. Not what it paid you. Check your Dm.


----------



## Mikep the kangaroo

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Uber needs to do a better job of informing both drivers and customers of the consequences of going "off the meter".
> 
> I inform customers of that when they ask to do a cash trip, they say where they are from, all the drivers do it because Uber's pay is so little and the drivers have nothing to lose.
> 
> So I lay the blame completely at Uber's feet. One for not compensating enough and two, for not informing customers and drivers.
> 
> New drivers think they are taxis, customers are largely ignorant and so forth.
> 
> 
> Pirates are the reason why with a taxi the commercial insurance is on the vehicle 24/7. Not temporary like rideshare.
> 
> Uber is to blame 100%.


If you take a cash ride off the App your putting everything at risk for very little return. Uber covers you on the way to your pickup but covers you quite a bit more when you have a customer in the vehicle. You’re own insurance company will drop you like a rock if you take a cash ride when you could have been covered by Uber. They won’t pay when Uber would have covered it. 
it’s not worth the risk.


----------



## Sproutski

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Uber needs to do a better job of informing both drivers and customers of the consequences of going "off the meter".
> 
> I inform customers of that when they ask to do a cash trip, they say where they are from, all the drivers do it because Uber's pay is so little and the drivers have nothing to lose.
> 
> So I lay the blame completely at Uber's feet. One for not compensating enough and two, for not informing customers and drivers.
> 
> New drivers think they are taxis, customers are largely ignorant and so forth.
> 
> 
> Pirates are the reason why with a taxi the commercial insurance is on the vehicle 24/7. Not temporary like rideshare.
> 
> Uber is to blame 100%.





ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Uber needs to do a better job of informing both drivers and customers of the consequences of going "off the meter".
> 
> I inform customers of that when they ask to do a cash trip, they say where they are from, all the drivers do it because Uber's pay is so little and the drivers have nothing to lose.
> 
> So I lay the blame completely at Uber's feet. One for not compensating enough and two, for not informing customers and drivers.
> 
> New drivers think they are taxis, customers are largely ignorant and so forth.
> 
> 
> Pirates are the reason why with a taxi the commercial insurance is on the vehicle 24/7. Not temporary like rideshare.
> 
> Uber is to blame 100%.


I don't *not* blame Uber but the facts are spelled out in terms of service way down at the bottom under The heading "Indemnity".

It says in lawyer language that if anything happens to you while you are not in compliance with terms of service, all bets are off; Uber is not responsible. And because every car insurance policy has a no commercial activity clause and our personal car insurance as rideshare drivers has a clause that says it is not an effect why we are doing an Uber ride it creates this catch-22 where your personal insurance won't cover you either while you're doing a cash ride. This also applies to anything that goes wrong when you're giving a ride to an unaccompanied minor or while your riders are not wearing seat belts because both of those things are a breach of terms of service. Uber does the bare minimum by putting the information way down in the bottom of terms of service but it's there.


----------



## oldfart

I didnt read every post in this thread so I apologize if someone else has already covered this, but It does make a lot of sense, financially to do private rides. I say dont say cash rides because I also take credit cards, debit cards, Venmo, Paypal and Zelle. 

Nearly everyone that flys into Fort Myers will, sooner or later, fly out of Fort Myers and vice versa. Until recently when I got an Uber or Lyft ride to or from the Airport, unless the customer was a real dick, they get my card and a suggestion that they schedule their next ride with me. I charge what ever Uber or Lyft would charge. Because of gas prices Im being more selective now, to cut down on dead miles

I cant speak to other Counties in Florida. but in Lee County it was easy and cheap to get the permits, The big deal is commercial insurance. I pay just over $3000 a year for commercial insurance. (liability only) but its worth it to me just to be able to sleep at night. I have assets that I am not willing to put at risk. Knowing what I know now, I think Id buy commercial insurance even if I wasnt doing private rides

I just learned that Lee County revoked their vehicle for hire permit law but Ill continue to buy commercial insurance

*Taxicab and Vehicle for Hire Ordinance Repealed*
Dec 22, 2021
On December 7, 2021, the Lee County Board of County Commissioners adopted Lee County Ordinance No. 21-13, Repeal Taxicab/Vehicle for Hire Ordinance. The ordinance went into effect on December 9, 2021. As a result, it is no longer necessary for business owners who operate a taxicab or vehicle for hire business in Lee County to obtain a Certificate to Operate, Vehicle Permit/Stickers, or Driver Identification Cards from the Lee County Tax Collector.


----------



## Fawäd Mastoi

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> So far...
> 
> His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
> The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
> His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
> The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
> And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
> His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
> And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.
> 
> And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.
> 
> And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.
> 
> 
> On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> (the pic has nothing to do with anything, except making this eligible for front page)


Fair call. Although...

In Australia, you MUST have Compulsory Third Party [CTP] Insurance to be able to register your car, many people don't and you can get fined for that.

Having said that, we also pay what is known as a TAC Premium in our annual registration. TAC [Transport Accident Commission] covers anyone injured in an accident on a public road, regardless or their insurance situation.

I know someone who was a rideshare driver and had Comprehensive Insurance (although not rideshare), which covers your vehicle, third-party vehicle and Third Party Public Liability up to $20,000,000. He had a regular cash job taking a 17 y.o. to school and bringing her home every day (this is in rural Victoria / Melbourne). One morning, the passenger asked him if he could take a different route, as she thought she knew a way through the back country roads. The driver agreed as it would save him time and petrol. Unfortunately, what the GPS showed as a road was a no-through dirt track and they ended up getting lost. As he was driving on this gravel road and the girl was looking at her phone for directions to get out of there, he glanced at her phone at the same time there was a curve in the road and four trees were on the direct path. The car ended up skidding on the gravel road and hitting a tree head-on (at 30-35km/h). He was able to turn the car enough to have the impact on his side to save the girl, but not enough to avoid the collision. The car was a write-off.

He told his insurance only what they needed to know, that he was travelling on such and such road, that he lost control of the vehicle at Xkm/h, and that there were trees on the curve. The insurance paid for the car in full. Both the girl (who didn't suffer any serious injuries) and the driver (a fractured spine) were covered under the TAC for medical expenses and the driver received a $35,000 compensation from TAC two years later as he was unable to continue his work due to the accident which impacted his quality of life more than what TAC considered the minimum qualifying standards. The fact that he was doing a 'cash-job' had nothing to do with either the insurer or TAC.

I must say I don't know where he would sit if the parents of the passenger decided to sue him for damages (albeit there being none).

We are lucky to have these safeguards, but anyone who drives without insurance is an idiot. At a minimum, I would have third-party insurance because you never know.

Regardless of having personal knowledge of the above incident, I would be hesitant to drive without rideshare insurance.


----------



## Fawäd Mastoi

oldfart said:


> I didnt read every post in this thread so I apologize if someone else has already covered this, but It does make a lot of sense, financially to do private rides. I say dont say cash rides because I also take credit cards, debit cards, Venmo, Paypal and Zelle.
> 
> Nearly everyone that flys into Fort Myers will, sooner or later, fly out of Fort Myers and vice versa. Until recently when I got an Uber or Lyft ride to or from the Airport, unless the customer was a real dick, they get my card and a suggestion that they schedule their next ride with me. I charge what ever Uber or Lyft would charge. Because of gas prices Im being more selective now, to cut down on dead miles
> 
> I cant speak to other Counties in Florida. but in Lee County it was easy and cheap to get the permits, The big deal is commercial insurance. I pay just over $3000 a year for commercial insurance. (liability only) but its worth it to me just to be able to sleep at night. I have assets that I am not willing to put at risk. Knowing what I know now, I think Id buy commercial insurance even if I wasnt doing private rides
> 
> I just learned that Lee County revoked their vehicle for hire permit law but Ill continue to buy commercial insurance
> 
> *Taxicab and Vehicle for Hire Ordinance Repealed*
> Dec 22, 2021
> On December 7, 2021, the Lee County Board of County Commissioners adopted Lee County Ordinance No. 21-13, Repeal Taxicab/Vehicle for Hire Ordinance. The ordinance went into effect on December 9, 2021. As a result, it is no longer necessary for business owners who operate a taxicab or vehicle for hire business in Lee County to obtain a Certificate to Operate, Vehicle Permit/Stickers, or Driver Identification Cards from the Lee County Tax Collector.


Absolutely! It is simply not worth the risk. Even if I was only doing 'on-meter' fares, I'd still ensure to have rideshare insurance.


----------



## Cape2Bos

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Financially, I suspeect his best bet is to declare bankrupcty and never drive again.


I am not a huge Bible person, but Abrahamic stories on this exact matter tell me that after the declaration of bankruptcy AND never driving rideshare again will ultimately lead to a better life.

I would seriously place money on the better life. And for the record, I like rideshare life (on MY terms).... I just see it as a cesspool as much as I see retail life... or many other lifestyles out there....


----------



## Saintike

Lyle said:


> I haven't driven since the Scamdemic and am on disability now. Whenever someone would ask me to drive off the app I would laugh and say no way there will be no insurance if something happens. Most were reasonable and understood . Others weren't so agreeable they are cheapos anyway. I can't imagine anyone taking that risk for a few pennies. BTW Uber drove my Honda CRV into the ground and when I added up all of the additional repairs by using my vehicle as a Taxi to profit the overlords at uber. Gasoline, increased maintenance ,hours on the clock I probably didn't even break even.


----------



## Saintike

You're blaming Uber for running your car to the ground? Really? Ever heard of personal responsibility? Did Uber force you to drive for them? You agreed to the terms when you signed the contract but it's their fault your car is run down. How sad


----------



## omahagreg

I don’t know that I buy the 


Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> So far...
> 
> His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
> The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
> His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
> The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
> And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
> His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
> And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.
> 
> And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.
> 
> And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.
> 
> 
> On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.


I don’t buy the story. It sounds like a tall tale. First, an insurance company cannot escape responsibility for damages up to the amount of insurance in place on a personal policy. States don’t allow that. If insurance was able to, then they would refuse to cover every damage claim that arises from a DWI as well, and well, they simply cannot. Perhaps they could avoid paying out for damages to his vehicle under collision, but I don’t even think that is allowed. What happens is the insurance will pay the claims as normal, then drop the coverage right after, citing the violation of the policy language. 

The other red flag is that the judgements can’t go away using bankruptcy. This is not true. There are very few circumstances that make a debt non-dischargable, and driving outside the language of your insurance policy is not one of them

Lastly, I can’t see someone getting charged with driving without insurance when they have insurance. How would they even have issued a ticket, unless the driver did not carry personal coverage?

The message is appropriate; don’t drive off app unless you have commercial coverage. But the details appear quite implausible.


----------



## Nique0201

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> That doesn't work, cops stung Uber drivers with a 'tip jar' picking up drunks at bars.
> 
> Drivers were claiming it's a free ride, but of course the drunk is going to feel compelled to tip.


No tip jar either. Litterally we get to destination. Cash in my hand to my pocket. Don't get me wrong a determined prosecutor could win... But she's that person exist who's pain is taking down the elusive cash Uber drivers of the world lol. The to jar is incriminating evidence.


----------



## Magic Dancer

Cat1015 said:


> And in other news, water is wet…


How wet?


----------



## Evil-g

Magic Dancer said:


> How wet?


----------



## Evil-g

So in other words the driver made a gitney trip?
No gitney driver that I know(yes I know them all) has ever been sued for compensatory damages. The law looks away with a wink and it’s been going on forever.


----------



## Gbrents

wallyruss1958 said:


> You're an idiot. UBER is clear in the agreement t hat you agreed to. Whether you like it or not cash rides are stealing from UBER





wallyruss1958 said:


> You're an idiot. UBER is clear in the agreement t hat you agreed to. Whether you like it or not cash rides are stealing from UBER


Aside from the name calling; which I am not going to say that you are wrong with the “Idiot “ assertion, but there is another reason to avoid taking trips off platform:

You have to understand that Attorneys are Greedy and when they are looking at a potential situation that will make more money, they will exploit it!!!
Why should this greedy proposition be important to the drivers and passengers? Well, Uber has deeper pockets (more money) then most of the drivers and passengers out there. 
Verbal arrangements are often pushed aside when someone gets hurt; especially when the drivers are displaying a Rideshare banner on their vehicle. 
A driver has no backup if there is any problem with the passenger, and if they receive a “Help” signal from the driver, or the passenger, getting help may be problematic.

If a Rideshare Driver is taking trips off the platform, then your commercial coverage will not cover the incident; even if you have commercial coverage on your own personal insurance coverage. Why? Because in most cases, the drivers are not a licensed business; but is an agent for that Rideshare company; therefore accidents and mishaps are only covered when the trip is taken on platform.
That passenger that promised the drivers that they will do the trip as a private matter, and not report it to the company, will often times forget about the agreement with that driver and their Attorney will include the Rideshare company in the potential lawsuits. 

when you have a passenger in your vehicle, and are involved in an accident; then the passenger will sue the driver; regardless of who is at fault.
Consequently, the company (Uber or Lyft), gets dragged into the situation. Oops there goes that relationship between the drivers and the company. 

Once the driver gets sued by the passenger, they will take the claim against them and include the damages to any lawsuits against the responsible party. There is a lot of “Weeds” to plow through in situations like this; but basically the passenger is not going to be covered by your private insurance coverage; even though you are paying for the commercial rider on your policy; so the Passenger and the drivers end up on the losing end of the situation.
I have customers asking for off platform rides; and I basically tell them that if I did agree to the private trip, they would probably not be covered by any insurance; should we get into an accident. 

By telling the passengers this, they realize that they are more than happy with paying the fare on the platform and forego the private trips.
I. Also warn that passenger that should they have a bad experience with a driver, while riding off the platform, then they will probably have no recourse to complain or get help from the company. 

MANY Drivers and passengers are not looking past that immediate, and perceived savings benefit, until a situation arises and they contact the company to address a potential lawsuit.

Drivers, please understand that you are taking unnecessary responsibility and risk by going off the platform and doing that side trip; both physically and professionally.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Gbrents said:


> Aside from the name calling; which I am not going to say that you are wrong with the “Idiot “ assertion, but there is another reason to avoid taking trips off platform:
> 
> You have to understand that Attorneys are Greedy and when they are looking at a potential situation that will make more money, they will exploit it!!!
> Why should this greedy proposition be important to the drivers and passengers? Well, Uber has deeper pockets (more money) then most of the drivers and passengers out there.
> Verbal arrangements are often pushed aside when someone gets hurt; especially when the drivers are displaying a Rideshare banner on their vehicle.
> A driver has no backup if there is any problem with the passenger, and if they receive a “Help” signal from the driver, or the passenger, getting help may be problematic.
> 
> If a Rideshare Driver is taking trips off the platform, then your commercial coverage will not cover the incident; even if you have commercial coverage on your own personal insurance coverage. Why? Because in most cases, the drivers are not a licensed business; but is an agent for that Rideshare company; therefore accidents and mishaps are only covered when the trip is taken on platform.
> That passenger that promised the drivers that they will do the trip as a private matter, and not report it to the company, will often times forget about the agreement with that driver and their Attorney will include the Rideshare company in the potential lawsuits.
> 
> when you have a passenger in your vehicle, and are involved in an accident; then the passenger will sue the driver; regardless of who is at fault.
> Consequently, the company (Uber or Lyft), gets dragged into the situation. Oops there goes that relationship between the drivers and the company.
> 
> Once the driver gets sued by the passenger, they will take the claim against them and include the damages to any lawsuits against the responsible party. There is a lot of “Weeds” to plow through in situations like this; but basically the passenger is not going to be covered by your private insurance coverage; even though you are paying for the commercial rider on your policy; so the Passenger and the drivers end up on the losing end of the situation.
> I have customers asking for off platform rides; and I basically tell them that if I did agree to the private trip, they would probably not be covered by any insurance; should we get into an accident.
> 
> By telling the passengers this, they realize that they are more than happy with paying the fare on the platform and forego the private trips.
> I. Also warn that passenger that should they have a bad experience with a driver, while riding off the platform, then they will probably have no recourse to complain or get help from the company.
> 
> MANY Drivers and passengers are not looking past that immediate, and perceived savings benefit, until a situation arises and they contact the company to address a potential lawsuit.
> 
> Drivers, please understand that you are taking unnecessary responsibility and risk by going off the platform and doing that side trip; both physically and professionally.


So what you're saying is if I put an uber sticker on a 48 passenger van with no insurance uber will cover me?


----------



## Jedi-Uber

wallyruss1958 said:


> You're an idiot. UBER is clear in the agreement t hat you agreed to. Whether you like it or not cash rides are stealing from UBER


Like Uber is stealing from the driver....


----------



## Evil-g

Gbrents said:


> Aside from the name calling; which I am not going to say that you are wrong with the “Idiot “ assertion, but there is another reason to avoid taking trips off platform:
> 
> You have to understand that Attorneys are Greedy and when they are looking at a potential situation that will make more money, they will exploit it!!!
> Why should this greedy proposition be important to the drivers and passengers? Well, Uber has deeper pockets (more money) then most of the drivers and passengers out there.
> Verbal arrangements are often pushed aside when someone gets hurt; especially when the drivers are displaying a Rideshare banner on their vehicle.
> A driver has no backup if there is any problem with the passenger, and if they receive a “Help” signal from the driver, or the passenger, getting help may be problematic.
> 
> If a Rideshare Driver is taking trips off the platform, then your commercial coverage will not cover the incident; even if you have commercial coverage on your own personal insurance coverage. Why? Because in most cases, the drivers are not a licensed business; but is an agent for that Rideshare company; therefore accidents and mishaps are only covered when the trip is taken on platform.
> That passenger that promised the drivers that they will do the trip as a private matter, and not report it to the company, will often times forget about the agreement with that driver and their Attorney will include the Rideshare company in the potential lawsuits.
> 
> when you have a passenger in your vehicle, and are involved in an accident; then the passenger will sue the driver; regardless of who is at fault.
> Consequently, the company (Uber or Lyft), gets dragged into the situation. Oops there goes that relationship between the drivers and the company.
> 
> Once the driver gets sued by the passenger, they will take the claim against them and include the damages to any lawsuits against the responsible party. There is a lot of “Weeds” to plow through in situations like this; but basically the passenger is not going to be covered by your private insurance coverage; even though you are paying for the commercial rider on your policy; so the Passenger and the drivers end up on the losing end of the situation.
> I have customers asking for off platform rides; and I basically tell them that if I did agree to the private trip, they would probably not be covered by any insurance; should we get into an accident.
> 
> By telling the passengers this, they realize that they are more than happy with paying the fare on the platform and forego the private trips.
> I. Also warn that passenger that should they have a bad experience with a driver, while riding off the platform, then they will probably have no recourse to complain or get help from the company.
> 
> MANY Drivers and passengers are not looking past that immediate, and perceived savings benefit, until a situation arises and they contact the company to address a potential lawsuit.
> 
> Drivers, please understand that you are taking unnecessary responsibility and risk by going off the platform and doing that side trip; both physically and professionally.


What’s wrong with you, all I did was asked a question and state a fact.


----------



## Jedi-Uber

W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 666251
> 
> $7
> Shipping $7
> Toal $14
> 
> I made $275 in 5 hours with that sign. No asking or verbal soliciting while sitting at either the hotel or the concert waiting for an uber ping. Turn off when engaged with uber customers.
> 
> That 1 night.


This is the very reason I will drive on the platform. Although it is good money quickly, you are considered a rolling piggy bank when advertising cash transactions. I thought about being a cab driver but reconsidered after understanding the amount of cash I would be carrying a nightly basis.


----------



## Silverfoxgiant

Lyle said:


> I haven't driven since the Scamdemic and am on disability now. Whenever someone would ask me to drive off the app I would laugh and say no way there will be no insurance if something happens. Most were reasonable and understood . Others weren't so agreeable they are cheapos anyway. I can't imagine anyone taking that risk for a few pennies. BTW Uber drove my Honda CRV into the ground and when I added up all of the additional repairs by using my vehicle as a Taxi to profit the overlords at uber. Gasoline, increased maintenance ,hours on the clock I probably didn't even break even.


Uber did not drive your car, YOU DID!!


----------



## W00dbutcher

Jedi-Uber said:


> This is the very reason I will drive on the platform. Although it is good money quickly, you are considered a rolling piggy bank when advertising cash transactions. I thought about being a cab driver but reconsidered after understanding the amount of cash I would be carrying a nightly basis.


These are removable. Mines attached to the sun visor. Flip down turn on or off. You don't run around with it on all the time. 

The hotel to concert route (1.2 miles) when it is on goes right pass the police station and jail. 

Id think its a good bet you wont get jacked right in that area with cops the entire time directing traffic as well.


----------



## Heisenburger

Gbrents said:


> If a Rideshare Driver is taking trips off the platform, then your commercial coverage will not cover the incident



Do you have a source for this assertion?
Of which country and states are you speaking?


----------



## sidewazzz

What’s the number #1 reason to have any customer in any business pay in cash???? Anyone?

Without a receipt it’s a he said she said.
I don’t suggest picking up a cash ride but if you ever did. Any exchange of money is no more than a thank you and you had no idea you were gonna get a cash reward.


----------



## ZippityDoDa

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> But according to law, your required to maintain active commercial level insurance, which Uber is providing, during the trip. Else if you maintain commercial level insurance in lew of personal vehicle insurance then your fine.
> 
> Question is of course, will Uber allow commercial level insurance in lew of personal vehicle insurance so that one can switch to being a taxi to an Uber when the driver wants?
> 
> If so this will work for customers who want or need a particular driver or vehicle. It will erode Uber's customers but they are experiencing that anyway from pirates and referrals



EVEN if you slyly get personal customers with your law abiding insurance, you are still asking for much more mounds of trouble should a horrific accident occur or even a minor accident where the passenger claims big injuries. It’s not worth it…. You want to be able at the very least to tie UBER to the problems you’ll go through (if not give problem to them).


----------



## W00dbutcher

..


----------



## W00dbutcher

sidewazzz said:


> What’s the number #1 reason to have any customer in any business pay in cash???? Anyone?
> 
> Without a receipt it’s a he said she said.
> I don’t suggest picking up a cash ride but if you ever did. Any exchange of money is no more than a thank you and you had no idea you were gonna get a cash reward.


That theory don't play out well when you're in an accident and people are asking for insurance information.


----------



## Mikep the kangaroo

Nique0201 said:


> Simple workaround honestly.... Don't take any cash until you make it to the destination. Until you accept payment it's just giving someone a ride. And obviously don't have any agreement in text or anything. All verbal nothing incriminating. Then it's the riders word vs yours.... If you accept cash at the end obviously you got there safe so no foul... And if you crash mid ride there was no transaction so no foul.


Tell that to your customers lawyer.


----------



## Heisenburger

Heisenburger said:


> Many are the same names. Progressive is an example of one who offers commercial livery insurance in Georgia.





> We offer for-hire livery insurance Direct in 38 states, including: Alabama Arizona Arkansas Colorado Delaware Georgia Idaho Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska New Hampshire New Mexico North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota  Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming


 Source


----------



## Mikep the kangaroo

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Yes if you steal Ubers trip that certainly is a violation of the Uber agreement.
> 
> If a customer hooks up with a driver and they take them without going through Uber, then the driver must carry commercial insurance according to law.
> 
> But what if the former Uber customer likes you or needs your vehicle for a future fare, one is basically stealing the Uber customer at that point if they don't both go through the Uber app?
> 
> The customer has a choice too or would Uber frown on that?
> 
> Also if an Uber driver who carries commercial insurance now has the ability to steal Uber customers, does Uber give a ratts ass?
> 
> They do know now because the apps are likely sending high frequency sound to one another when in proximity.
> 
> Uber was experimenting with auto pin number activation because for awhile the two phones got near the pin was auto activated on my driver app.


Look at the complications of picking up one specific customer for a ride off the Uber app. 
you need to shut down your app 45-60 minutes before the scheduled ride to ensure your in the area for the pickup. This could result in a loss of several rides negating the small return of a now and again customer. 
also, you could end up 20-30 miles away from your pickup before shutting down. Possibility of destination pickups but it’s a toss up. 
I’ve been asked many times to dopersonal pickups. When I explain the issues above, they see my point and it’s end of discussion.


----------



## Mikep the kangaroo

Mikep the kangaroo said:


> Look at the complications of picking up one specific customer for a ride off the Uber app.
> you need to shut down your app 45-60 minutes before the scheduled ride to ensure your in the area for the pickup. This could result in a loss of several rides negating the small return of a now and again customer.
> also, you could end up 20-30 miles away from your pickup before shutting down. Possibility of destination pickups but it’s a toss up.
> I’ve been asked many times to dopersonal pickups. When I explain the issues above, they see my point and it’s end of discussion.


I also forgot to add, your not always working.


----------



## bobby747

This is a great topic. I had commercial insurance many years. It's the only way...most cannot afford it $4000 to $5000. Yr. But you sleep well at night


----------



## UberBastid

omahagreg said:


> Lastly, I can’t see someone getting charged with driving without insurance when they have insurance. How would they even have issued a ticket, unless the driver did not carry personal coverage?


It depends on what your insurance covers. I have health insurance but it doesn't cover damages I can make when I hit your car and it's my fault.


omahagreg said:


> would refuse to cover every damage claim that arises from a DWI as well, and well, they simply cannot.


LOTA shades of gray here. And, I am not a lawyer.

I was in court once waiting for my case to be called and the judge did a couple of "quick motions hearings'' on an auto damage case. A guy loaned his car to a 'friend' who used the car to pull off a couple of armed robberies. A chase ensued, and before they got him in custody there was a lot of damage to other cars (parked and otherwise). No injuries. The insurance company had a clause in the policy that said that (and I'm paraphrasing) you are not covered if you use your vehicle in an unlawful manner. That's a pretty broad statement.

The judge did not allow it in this case because 1) the owner voluntarily loaned the car, 2) that loan was not forbidden by the policy and 3) the owner did not operate the vehicle in an illegal manner, the person who borrowed it did and he is not a party to the contract.

Many shades of gray in this area, and who can afford to get the decision before a judge? The insurance company can - can we?


----------



## Jenga

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> But according to law, your required to maintain active commercial level insurance, which Uber is providing, during the trip. Else if you maintain commercial level insurance in lew of personal vehicle insurance then your fine.
> 
> Question is of course, will Uber allow commercial level insurance in lew of personal vehicle insurance so that one can switch to being a taxi to an Uber when the driver wants?
> 
> If so this will work for customers who want or need a particular driver or vehicle. It will erode Uber's customers but they are experiencing that anyway from pirates and referrals


You all need to seriously check the laws in your state. Firstly, many states require permanent signage or markings for taxi and commercial drivers. Both ot these are against Uber policy of no commercial markings on the exterior of the vehicle. Actual taxis are also - in most states - required to have both signage and a meter which has to be programmed and calibrated by independent sources. 

I haven't read through this whole thread, but so far I've seen no mention of gap insurance either. Many drivers don't understand that Uber insurance covers only from the point of accepting a ride (driving to pax) to pickup and through dropoff. If your trolling the streets with tha app on - "available for hire" - but have not accepted a ride, you are definitely not covered by Uber , and most likely not covered by your personal insurance unless you have purchased "rideshare gap insurance". This leaves you just as vulnerable as the OP's original story. If you have an accident, with the app on - and your insurance company WILL ask AND has the ability to verify - you will not be covered in most circumstances. Drivers beware!


----------



## Jenga

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Yes if you steal Ubers trip that certainly is a violation of the Uber agreement.
> 
> If a customer hooks up with a driver and they take them without going through Uber, then the driver must carry commercial insurance according to law.
> 
> But what if the former Uber customer likes you or needs your vehicle for a future fare, one is basically stealing the Uber customer at that point if they don't both go through the Uber app?
> 
> The customer has a choice too or would Uber frown on that?
> 
> Also if an Uber driver who carries commercial insurance now has the ability to steal Uber customers, does Uber give a ratts ass?
> 
> They do know now because the apps are likely sending high frequency sound to one another when in proximity.
> 
> Uber was experimenting with auto pin number activation because for awhile the two phones got near the pin was auto activated on my driver app.


This is absurd. You are not "stealing" anything from Uber if you make a private arrangement OUTSIDE the current ride and after the ride is over. Uber does not "own" the customer and you have every right under the contract to make any arrangements you want with the pax for future rides of any sort - or any other business for that matter. You can even give out your card for other business, once the ride is over (after swiping complete). Uber has no rights on "future rides".


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

Jenga said:


> This is absurd. You are not "stealing" anything from Uber if you make a private arrangement OUTSIDE the current ride and after the ride is over. Uber does not "own" the customer and you have every right under the contract to make any arrangements you want with the pax for future rides of any sort - or any other business for that matter. You can even give out your card for other business, once the ride is over (after swiping complete). Uber has no rights on "future rides".


Stealing an Uber trip requires getting the trip, then having customer cancel the Uber trip and either take them off the meter for cash or as a taxi. Or asking them to use another rideshare app instead like Lyft.

There was a taxi owner receiving Uber trips and cancelling them just before arriving with his taxi sign and taking them. Customers complained and Uber instituted stronger measures against stealing.

What I was talking about is stealing customers, which they take the first trip on Uber and subsequent trips with same driver on another platform or their taxi.

Personally if I was Uber I wouldn't give trips to those also running Lyft, but they do because drivers are independent contractors. Question is how would they feel about dual Uber/taxi drivers?

Because as a taxi a driver gets referrals from local businesses which customer likely has already taken same driver as an Uber.

Customer is making their choice, but to Uber who sees all, now sees their customer riding with same driver again and they are left out.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

Jedi-Uber said:


> .. but reconsidered after understanding the amount of cash I would be carrying a nightly basis.


You make drops, you only need change


----------



## oldfart

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Stealing an Uber trip requires getting the trip, then having customer cancel the Uber trip and either take them off the meter for cash or as a taxi. Or asking them to use another rideshare app instead like Lyft.
> 
> There was a taxi owner receiving Uber trips and cancelling them just before arriving with his taxi sign and taking them. Customers complained and Uber instituted stronger measures against stealing.
> 
> What I was talking about is stealing customers, which they take the first trip on Uber and subsequent trips with same driver on another platform or their taxi.
> 
> Personally if I was Uber I wouldn't give trips to those also running Lyft, but they do because drivers are independent contractors. Question is how would they feel about dual Uber/taxi drivers?
> 
> Because as a taxi a driver gets referrals from local businesses which customer likely has already taken same driver as an Uber.
> 
> Customer is making their choice, but to Uber who sees all, now sees their customer riding with same driver again and they are left out.


Here are a few lines taken from my agreement with Uber. I think its pretty clear that the customer is our customer and we are free to connect with riders in any way we and they choose

Contracting Parties. The relationship between the parties is solely as independent business enterprises, each of whom operates a separate and distinct business enterprise that provides a service outside the usual course of business of the other. This is not an employment agreement and you are not an employee. 

We are not hiring or engaging you to provide any service; you are engaging us to provide you access to our Platform. 


you are not required to accept any minimum number of Rides in order to access our Platform and it is entirely your choice whether to provide P2P Service to Riders directly, using our Platform, or using any other method to connect with Riders, including, but not limited to other platforms and applications in addition to, or instead of, ours.

Accepting a Ride request creates a direct business relationship between you and your Rider

WE PROVIDE LEAD GENERATION AND RELATED SERVICES ONLY,


----------



## Disgusted Driver

Nique0201 said:


> Simple workaround honestly.... Don't take any cash until you make it to the destination. Until you accept payment it's just giving someone a ride. And obviously don't have any agreement in text or anything. All verbal nothing incriminating. Then it's the riders word vs yours.... If you accept cash at the end obviously you got there safe so no foul... And if you crash mid ride there was no transaction so no foul.


All bets are off when something bad happens. I get into an accident with one of my cash regulars in the car even if we have an understanding, claim I'm giving a friend a ride, don't take money till the end, ... when bad stuff happens it is every person for themselves.No court is going to believe you if you say you were giving them a ride out of the kindness of your heart, while the rider is saying you wanted money. Also, if it comes to pass, you will get sued. Along with getting sued will come a request for discovery. They will want to see all of your posts here on UP.net including the one I'm quoting. Don't share everything in discovery and get caught withholding information, well that wont look good in court!

So, if you want to do it, strongly suggest proper insurance coverage or having negative net worth..


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers

oldfart said:


> Here are a few lines taken from my agreement with Uber. I think its pretty clear that the customer is our customer and we are free to connect with riders in any way we and they choose
> 
> Contracting Parties. The relationship between the parties is solely as independent business enterprises, each of whom operates a separate and distinct business enterprise that provides a service outside the usual course of business of the other. This is not an employment agreement and you are not an employee.
> 
> We are not hiring or engaging you to provide any service; you are engaging us to provide you access to our Platform.
> 
> 
> you are not required to accept any minimum number of Rides in order to access our Platform and it is entirely your choice whether to provide P2P Service to Riders directly, using our Platform, or using any other method to connect with Riders, including, but not limited to other platforms and applications in addition to, or instead of, ours.
> 
> Accepting a Ride request creates a direct business relationship between you and your Rider
> 
> WE PROVIDE LEAD GENERATION AND RELATED SERVICES ONLY,


So Uber is claiming lead generation and services, much like a hotel recommending a taxi and taking a cut off the top.

It's our customer, after that first trip is over we can take them as want, via any method that's legal, including a taxi.

If Uber was more responsive in adjusting prices to reflect the jump in gas prices, made it easier to take customers on via walk-ons and other driver generated methods, didn't take 4x more profit than drivers, I wouldn't be considering what I'm considering, I need more control if Uber just doesn't want to get with the program.


----------



## Atavar

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> So Uber is claiming lead generation and services, much like a hotel recommending a taxi and taking a cut off the top.
> 
> It's our customer, after that first trip is over we can take them as want, via any method that's legal, including a taxi.
> 
> If Uber was more responsive in adjusting prices to reflect the jump in gas prices, made it easier to take customers on via walk-ons and other driver generated methods, didn't take 4x more profit than drivers, I wouldn't be considering what I'm considering, I need more control if Uber just doesn't want to get with the program.


Taking rides as taxi (cash, off app) is fine. Nobody is saying you shouldn’t do that — so long as you protect yourself with proper commercial insurance. 
We just don’t want you to be the next guy posting about how his life is ruined because he had an accident and insurance is making him pay for everything.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

So for those who arnt well versed in Florida law.

Florida allows mostly unmarked vehicles to be used in for-hire transportation and doesn’t require a meter to be used as long as rates are consistent and the customer can be charged using a flat rate.

it also varries county by county so it gets rather vague.

Legally speaking…. The only universal constant is the commercial insurance requirement. Which is the only thing he said he violated.

And I don’t know any of these details I posted are factual for all I know the guy was lying.

I just told you guys what I was told.

The insurance company may or may not have denied coverage.

He may have just been woefully under insured and sued into oblivion. His insurance might have been unpaid when this happened which would also be justification to deny coverage.

There might be more details I never had.


I’m just telling you the story I heard from this guy.

Cash ride ruined his life after an accident.


And commiting s second degree misdemeanor could be enough to justify his insurance to deny coverage entirely?

I don’t know but it’s possible.


----------



## sidewazzz

W00dbutcher said:


> That theory don't play out well when you're in an accident and people are asking for insurance information.


its a lot better than claiming you're a ride for hire. Shot you could even claim gas money.


----------



## Jenga

Jenga said:


> This is absurd. You are not "stealing" anything from Uber if you make a private arrangement OUTSIDE the current ride and after the ride is over. Uber does not "own" the customer and you have every right under the contract to make any arrangements you want with the pax for future rides of any sort - or any other business for that matter. You can even give out your card for other business, once the ride is over (after swiping complete). Uber has no rights on "future rides".





ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Stealing an Uber trip requires getting the trip, then having customer cancel the Uber trip and either take them off the meter for cash or as a taxi. Or asking them to use another rideshare app instead like Lyft.
> 
> There was a taxi owner receiving Uber trips and cancelling them just before arriving with his taxi sign and taking them. Customers complained and Uber instituted stronger measures against stealing.
> 
> What I was talking about is stealing customers, which they take the first trip on Uber and subsequent trips with same driver on another platform or their taxi.
> 
> Personally if I was Uber I wouldn't give trips to those also running Lyft, but they do because drivers are independent contractors. Question is how would they feel about dual Uber/taxi drivers?
> 
> Because as a taxi a driver gets referrals from local businesses which customer likely has already taken same driver as an Uber.
> 
> Customer is making their choice, but to Uber who sees all, now sees their customer riding with same driver again and they are left out.


Again, you should not refer to "stealing" customers. Uber doesn't have "customers", they have drivers and riders. They don't have any rights against the driver or rider beyond the current ride being contracted. When the ride is over, their relationship as booking agent and money processor (they are a tech company, remember?) ends. They have no legal interest or say in whatever may transpire between the rider and driver once the current engagement is complete. I seriously doubt they are tracking users who are not currently using their apps. But if they are tracking former riders or their drivers who do not have the app turned on, they they are breaking their privacy commitments. I don't believe they are tracking unless a rider is currently engaged with a driver through the app.


----------



## Karen Stein

There are lots of reasons you don’t want to work off the meter, and others have already covered them well.
To sum them up:
1) It’s probably illegal and is certainly morally questionable in light of your agreements with Uber;
2) Insurance might be an idea issue — though Ubers insurance is crap and they have a no- pay carrier (Allstate);
3) You’re bringing in all the bad things that happen when folks think you have cash; and
4) Anyone who wants to renegotiate the Uber deal probably doesn’t have your interests at heart.

That said, there can be situations where the Uber model just won’t work. For example, were you to get a trip over sixteen hours long, or a trip with an overnight stop. There’s not even a way for you to discuss such a trip with “driver support.”
Another example: A local locksmith wrecked his van. We loaded his gear into my car and I chauffeured him around for a week. Long days, good money — all off app. He finally got a rental and we parted ways.


----------



## Steven Seagull

The only legal way to do it is to get chauffeur/livery insurance: • $250,000 for any one person • $250,000 for any one accident • $50,000 property damage Combined Single Limit • $300,000. Then get your local chauffeur's license. Then you're responsibly covered legally 100%. Insurance wise and government wise. Then you can start passing out business cards to Uber riders with a clear conscience. Well, except for maybe Uber. But IF they find out, you should have enough of your own clients by then to not have to worry about getting deactivated by them. Then, with your bigger earnings, you can get a bigger, nicer luxury car for your independent contractor livery service, independent advertising and marketing, and it's all downhill from there! And then maybe even expand down the road and hire other drivers, too. But of course, I would NEVER think of doing this myself. . .


----------



## RisingBlue

This one is only $1.25


https://www.dollartree.com/3d-car-air-fresheners-assorted/343860


----------



## Karen Stein

Thank you.


----------



## Gone_in_60_seconds

Steven Seagull said:


> The only legal way to do it is to get chauffeur/livery insurance: • $250,000 for any one person • $250,000 for any one accident • $50,000 property damage Combined Single Limit • $300,000. Then get your local chauffeur's license. Then you're responsibly covered legally 100%. Insurance wise and government wise. Then you can start passing out business cards to Uber riders with a clear conscience. Well, except for maybe Uber. But IF they find out, you should have enough of your own clients by then to not have to worry about getting deactivated by them. Then, with your bigger earnings, you can get a bigger, nicer luxury car for your independent contractor livery service, independent advertising and marketing, and it's all downhill from there! And then maybe even expand down the road and hire other drivers, too. But of course, I would NEVER think of doing this myself. . .


Do private chaffeurs make more money than Taxi drivers? Like for example in the Florida market?


----------



## Jenga

Gbrents said:


> If a Rideshare Driver is taking trips off the platform, then your commercial coverage will not cover the incident; even if you have commercial coverage on your own personal insurance coverage. Why? Because in most cases, the drivers are not a licensed business; but is an agent for that Rideshare company; therefore accidents and mishaps are only covered when the trip is taken on platform.
> That passenger that promised the drivers that they will do the trip as a private matter, and not report it to the company, will often times forget about the agreement with that driver and their Attorney will include the Rideshare company in the potential lawsuits.


This part is wrong. First, Uber drivers are never "an agent for the Rideshare company". That is the reverse reality: Rideshare companies are in fact agents for the drivers. Secondly, there is NO agency relationship at all when doing solo (off-app) rides. This is why - as you did point out - that solo rides are not covered. Thirdly, Attorneys will NOT be successful in attempts to pursue lawsuits against Rideshare company since they had nothing to do with the rogue ride - it was strictly between driver and pax. 

As to whether commercial insurance would apply, that would depend on whether that specific commercial insurance had a requirement for licensing. 


> when you have a passenger in your vehicle, and are involved in an accident; then the passenger will sue the driver; regardless of who is at fault.
> Consequently, the company (Uber or Lyft), gets dragged into the situation. Oops there goes that relationship between the drivers and the company.


It is certainly possible that Rideshare companies could be notified even though they have no liability; so termination is entirely possible.


----------



## Chauffeur_James

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> So far...
> 
> His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
> The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
> His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
> The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
> And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
> His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
> And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.
> 
> And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.
> 
> And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.
> 
> 
> On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> (the pic has nothing to do with anything, except making this eligible for front page)


It's amazing how many Uber/Lyft drivers I've talked to that do it, and actually think they are covered because they got the Rideshare Endorsement policy on their insurance. Rideshare endorsement covers every part of rideshare except for the ride itself.


----------



## Chauffeur_James

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> So far...
> 
> His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
> The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
> His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
> The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
> And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
> His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
> And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.
> 
> And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.
> 
> And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.
> 
> 
> On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> (the pic has nothing to do with anything, except making this eligible for front page)


It's amazing how many Uber/Lyft drivers I've talked to that do it, and actually think they are covered because they got the Rideshare Endorsement policy on their insurance. Rideshare endorsement covers every part of rideshare except for the ride itself.


----------



## Jenga

Nique0201 said:


> Simple workaround honestly.... Don't take any cash until you make it to the destination. Until you accept payment it's just giving someone a ride. And obviously don't have any agreement in text or anything. All verbal nothing incriminating. Then it's the riders word vs yours.... If you accept cash at the end obviously you got there safe so no foul... And if you crash mid ride there was no transaction so no foul.


This is actually a good point. Though it does not really eliminate the risk. For instance I just gave a "good Samaritan" ride to someone yesterday. Since there was no money involved, then there was no commercial aspect. It was simply picking up a hitcher. The problem is, you could still be called to court and have to testify under oath there was no prior agreement for cash. It's doubtful a judge or jury would believe you under "preponderance of evidence" rules in civil court. You might win, but might not. And you would have to lie under oath...

The better workaround would be to say to the pax: It's illegal for me to charge for rides off app, since I don't have a commercial license. But if you choose to tip me for my generosity, that would be ok. There's still a problem of any pre-specified "tip" which in court could be construed as an agreement for money...


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Do private chaffeurs make more money than Taxi drivers? Like for example in the Florida market?



Theres 3 answers to that question in the Orlando msrket

During the off season taxi drivers who are willing to work in less desirable areas make more.

In the busy season summer and December chauffeurs can make more.

And on hollidays taxi drivers make more. NYE 4th of july, Christmas ect.

The good money for chauffeurs are airport arrivals/hotel checkouts. Hollidays tend to not be so good for that.

many chauffeurs in the Orlando market are active on Uber. The biggest chauffeur services are in Uber platform. It’s a good source of clients and they have downtime they would otherwise not have fares. It’s damn near essential for the off season.


So honestly pluses and minuses.

I prefer the taxi because I don’t like wearing suits and the dispatch for chauffeur was more weighted on guest service for the chauffeur drivers, rather then “fair”.

But if Tom Hanks’ personal assistant orders an SUV at the four seasons he gets a top driver, not a part timer like me.

I’d just get half as many fares consisting of entitled McMansion filling no name assholes.

but objectively speaking if I was running chauffeur service I’d be giving Tom Hank’s fare to the best driver. I’d probobly be a little more fair about how many fares each driver gets but… it is what it is.

So I drive a cab where dispatch is fair and the taxis get to queue at Disney world and take the next paying customer based on a first in first out distribution.

and because the cabs are in a physical line we actually know who is first in and first out, and not being fed fares by some dispotic ego maniacal algorithm trying to give certain drivers fewer bigger fares to Bork garuntees and some drivers more lower rates customers to get them to bork their acceptance rate to make them in eligible for a bonus.


----------



## Heisenburger

Chauffeur_James said:


> Rideshare endorsement covers every part of rideshare except for the ride itself.


I'm confused.


----------



## Atavar

Heisenburger said:


> I'm confused.


The ride itself is covered by U/L insurance.


----------



## Heisenburger

Atavar said:


> The ride itself is covered by U/L insurance.


And the en route to pick-up too.


----------



## UberBastid

Heisenburger said:


> I'm confused.


I find myself (often actually) feeling like I am the only one in the room without a scorecard.
I feel bad for Biden.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Heisenburger said:


> And the en route to pick-up too.


In florida...
Literally... not making this up at all. If you log into a vehicle with no insurance whatsoever, with the wrong make/model/plate ect and uber is legally required to provide liability insurance.

The act of _logging in_ to uber engages the law to require uber and lyft to provide liability insurance without any regards whatsoever to the driver having insurance or even being the correct driver.

And even if the wrong driver picks up a passenger in the wrong car as long as the customer booked through the app uber is required to provide coverage.

The state had no mercy for uber weaseling their way out of liability but if a driver decides to take a cash trip they are just screwed.

But unfortunatly there's no way that uber will ever be forced to provide coverage to drivers when not logged in. If they that was the case bandit cab operators could just get an uber sticker instead of actually buying commercial insurance and soon enough uber would be paying liability for every taxi in the state even if the vast majority are giving them nothing or next to nothing.


----------



## UberSux25

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> So what you're saying is if I put an uber sticker on a 48 passenger van with no insurance uber will cover me?


Sticker doesn’t mean anything lol. You have to be logged in to app, and even then they only cover you when passenger is in car and on active trip
on app.


----------



## UberSux25

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Warning,
> 
> Taking cash customers without booking through the app may result in multiple lawsuits and a $500,000s worth of bills and losing your driver's license until you pay it off.
> 
> 
> I don't know if this is florida being particularly draconian or not.
> 
> It's tough to say.
> 
> But florida is fairly standard in terms of the insurance situation. They key is that the driver had ZERO active insurance at the time of the accident (because he had a cash customer) so he got the driving with no insurance ticket because the cop knew that the driver's personal insurance wasn't going to cover anything. (which they won't)
> 
> 
> Really this is worst case scenerio, like three times over worst case scenerio.


plus just a side note…only way you can get sued is if the accident is your fault. Considering 80% of accidents are caused by 20% of drivers, only 20% of people reading this should worry…. That is if you have a at fault accident. Potential employees can’t even get on my limo insurance if they have 1 “at-fault” accident… I say if you’ve never had an accident and are super careful take those cash rides all day!


----------



## bobby747

Steven Seagull said:


> The only legal way to do it is to get chauffeur/livery insurance: • $250,000 for any one person • $250,000 for any one accident • $50,000 property damage Combined Single Limit • $300,000. Then get your local chauffeur's license. Then you're responsibly covered legally 100%. Insurance wise and government wise. Then you can start passing out business cards to Uber riders with a clear conscience. Well, except for maybe Uber. But IF they find out, you should have enough of your own clients by then to not have to worry about getting deactivated by them. Then, with your bigger earnings, you can get a bigger, nicer luxury car for your independent contractor livery service, independent advertising and marketing, and it's all downhill from there! And then maybe even expand down the road and hire other drivers, too. But of course, I would NEVER think of doing this myself. . .


St tax I'd to


----------



## Heisenburger

Heisenburger said:


> And the en route to pick-up too.


Just to clarify, the above comment refers to period 2.

Source 

*RIDESHARE INSURANCE BREAKDOWN*


*Period **Summary*Period 0Offline: Your Personal PolicyPeriod 1Online WITHOUT ride request: rideshare insurance + Lyft/Uber PolicyPeriod 2Online WITH ride request but NO rider: Lyft/Uber PolicyPeriod 3Online WITH rider in the vehicle: Lyft/Uber Policy


----------



## Heisenburger

UberSux25 said:


> they only cover you when passenger is in car and on active trip on app.


False. Because periods 1 and 2 both have some coverage.

Source 

*RIDESHARE INSURANCE BREAKDOWN*


*Period **Summary*Period 0Offline: Your Personal PolicyPeriod 1Online WITHOUT ride request: rideshare insurance + *Lyft/Uber Policy*Period 2Online WITH ride request but NO rider: *Lyft/Uber Policy*Period 3Online WITH rider in the vehicle: Lyft/Uber Policy


----------



## Sproutski

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> So what you're saying is if I put an uber sticker on a 48 passenger van with no insurance uber will cover me?


Yeah, that's what he's saying so you should go ahead and do that. 🙄


----------



## Sproutski

Nique0201 said:


> Simple workaround honestly.... Don't take any cash until you make it to the destination. Until you accept payment it's just giving someone a ride. And obviously don't have any agreement in text or anything. All verbal nothing incriminating. Then it's the riders word vs yours.... If you accept cash at the end obviously you got there safe so no foul... And if you crash mid ride there was no transaction so no foul.


Uh...no.


----------



## UberSux25

Heisenburger said:


> False. Because periods 1 and 2 both have some coverage.
> 
> Source
> 
> *RIDESHARE INSURANCE BREAKDOWN*
> 
> 
> *Period **Summary*Period 0Offline: Your Personal PolicyPeriod 1Online WITHOUT ride request: rideshare insurance + *Lyft/Uber Policy*Period 2Online WITH ride request but NO rider: *Lyft/Uber Policy*Period 3Online WITH rider in the vehicle: Lyft/Uber Policy


So if you’re giving a cash ride why not just leave app on and not accept requests


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

UberSux25 said:


> So if you’re giving a cash ride why not just leave app on and not accept requests


because it still isn't enough insurance. The limits change at go way up once you pick up the customer than they are en route or waiting.


----------



## UberSux25

Ahhh… well it seems pretty simple if you want to make money driving people take all cash Runs and don’t be a shitty driver and wreck…. I drove last week and tracked all miles. @ .65 cents a mile I got paid a little less than $4/hr for 20 hours of work


----------



## UberSux25

420 total miles in 20 hours…. Got paid $309 from Uber…. So Cost me $273 in gas and depreciation/maintenance…. But at a conservative $.55 per mile which I know is not enough with gas prices and vehicle prices being what they are.. My cost would be $231… so at the absolute most I was paid $78 for 20 hours of driving. Or $3.90 per hour


----------



## Sproutski

UberSux25 said:


> Ahhh… well it seems pretty simple if you want to make money driving people take all cash Runs and don’t be a shitty driver and wreck…. I drove last week and tracked all miles. @ .65 cents a mile I got paid a little less than $4/hr for 20 hours of work


Don't be a shitty driver and wreck? I guess that plan will work alright until a shitty driver runs into you. People have crashed into me while I was doing Uber a few times- twice while I had riders. I can promise you that getting hit by a shitty driver was never on my to do list the times that it happened.


----------



## UberSux25

Sproutski said:


> Don't be a shitty driver and wreck? I guess that plan will work alright until a shitty driver runs into you. People have crashed into me while I was doing Uber a few times- twice while I had riders. I can promise you that getting hit by a shitty driver was never on my to do list the times that it happened.


Haha well they can’t sue you if it’s not your fault. I’m talking about at fault accidents… a small percentage of shitty drivers cause almost all the accidents. That’s why my commercial insurance won’t consider you at all if you have ANY AT FAULT accidents.


----------



## Heisenburger

UberSux25 said:


> So if you’re giving a cash ride why not just leave app on and not accept requests


Your insurance is primary here. Uber is secondary if yours is exhausted.

Also, I strongly suspect that claims rep of both companies, if they're good at their job, would like to know why you have an injured passenger when passengers (non customers like friends or family) are expressly excluded by Uber rules, even while trolling for customers?


----------



## Heisenburger

UberSux25 said:


> So Cost me *$273 in gas and depreciation*/maintenance….


If I were you, I wouldn't use my Mercedes-Benz GLE500 for rideshare.


----------



## Atavar

UberSux25 said:


> Haha well they can’t sue you if it’s not your fault. I’m talking about at fault accidents… a small percentage of shitty drivers cause almost all the accidents. That’s why my commercial insurance won’t consider you at all if you have ANY AT FAULT accidents.


Anybody can sue anybody for anything At any time.


----------



## Heisenburger

Atavar said:


> Anybody can sue anybody for anything At any time.


True.

Case in point: I just sued you for your comment above. You'll be served on Monday. 😁 Unless I decide to rescind it, which I probably will because I'm a quitter. 😁


----------



## Atavar

Heisenburger said:


> True.
> 
> Case in point: I just sued you for your comment above. You'll be served on Monday. 😁 Unless I decide to rescind it, which I probably will because I'm a quitter. 😁


Lol


----------



## UberSux25

Heisenburger said:


> If I were you, I wouldn't use my Mercedes-Benz GLE500 for rideshare.


What? It’s a 2014 Toyota… if I were you I wouldn’t drastically underestimate your actual costs to pretend like you’re making more than you are. The government is not in the business of giving free money away… they have a pretty good idea of exactly how much it costs to buy, maintain, and fuel a vehicle up. A Mercedes’ like that would cost well over $1/mile to own/operate…. In which case I would have actually paid Uber to work for them… at least in a 2014 Toyota I’m clearing $4-$6 per hour… yes I know you can make $8-$12 per hour if you drive the drunks but no thanks.


----------



## UberSux25

Heisenburger said:


> If I were you, I wouldn't use my Mercedes-Benz GLE500 for rideshare.


Lots of studies out there. If you drive 10-15,000 miles per year then your true cost is about 58-61 cents per mile… but this was also done on 2018 when cars were cheaper and gas was $2.50 per gallon. Now gas is double and car prices are up significantly… they say if you drive over 20K per year your cost will come down to about 51 cents… but again done in 2018 with cheap gas and cheaper cars…. I’ve done the math myself…. Even on a $15,000 beater, tires, maintenance, gas, insurance, oil changes, depreciation, etc… ain’t no way you’re getting around for less than 50 cents a mile…. Shit with current gas prices, gas alone costs 20+ cents per mile…. But keep working for China wages…. Doesn’t bother me.


----------



## Heisenburger

UberSux25 said:


> drastically underestimate your actual costs


Show me your formula and I'll show you mine.


----------



## Heisenburger

UberSux25 said:


> I’m clearing $4-$6 per hour… yes I know you can make $8-$12 per hour if you drive the drunks but no thanks


----------



## donhammer800

W00dbutcher said:


> These are removable. Mines attached to the sun visor. Flip down turn on or off. You don't run around with it on all the time.
> 
> The hotel to concert route (1.2 miles) when it is on goes right pass the police station and jail.
> 
> Id think its a good bet you wont get jacked right in that area with cops the entire time directing traffic as well.


I have been driving for Uber and Lyft for 6 years and avoid cash rides if possible but there is times when it is a big tip if you extend the trip with out the rider putting it in the app Uber almost ads it to the ride anyway


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

donhammer800 said:


> I have been driving for Uber and Lyft for 6 years and avoid cash rides if possible but there is times when it is a big tip if you extend the trip with out the rider putting it in the app Uber almost ads it to the ride anyway


That's actually a lot less "stupid" than taking a cash customer in the first place. You can blame it on a techical problem and as long as the passenger who is hurt ordered the ride the paper trail points back to it being an official ride.

That sounds like something that I would be willing to argue.


----------



## UberBastid

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> That sounds like something that I would be willing to argue.


And, I bet you could find an atty to argue that for you ..."Just leave me a retainer check of $5k, and I will defend you to your last dime."


----------



## UberSux25

Heisenburger said:


> Show me your formula and I'll show you mine.


Nah I’ll just trust random dude on internet who can’t get a good job to be smarter than the government and car experts… In fact I’m jumping in my car right now to put another 400 miles on it for $3 rides! You changed my life bud!


----------



## UberSux25

Insert “I make $100,000 a year doing this job and only do Uber part time” respond


----------



## Buckiemohawk

Did a cash ride up to past Charlotte. Customer paid out at the end. Luggage was in the back. His car broke down. And he never ordered anything before rideshare. He had called the taxi company and it was triple of what I charged


----------



## W00dbutcher

UberSux25 said:


> Insert “I make $100,000 a year doing this job and only do Uber part time” respond


Im gonna call bs.
Absolutely no proof.
Even some black car drivers in good markets make that and they do it full time.

So your claim is you may go over $1,900 part time a week doing rideshare?


That one?


----------



## Chauffeur_James

UberSux25 said:


> plus just a side note…only way you can get sued is if the accident is your fault. Considering 80% of accidents are caused by 20% of drivers, only 20% of people reading this should worry…. That is if you have a at fault accident. Potential employees can’t even get on my limo insurance if they have 1 “at-fault” accident… I say if you’ve never had an accident and are super careful take those cash rides all day!


You are 100% wrong!

you absolutely can get sued even if the accident wasn’t your fault, not to mention when the cop is on scene and the pax brings up you took him for cash, the cop will arrest you in some states if you aren’t permitted, and may also include that info on the report.

Also, if they are uninsured or underinsured, which happens a lot in Florida then your uninsured/underinsured Coverage will kick in.

Bottom line, if you want to take cash rides, go get the proper permits and insurance and stop being a damn *********. If you have a nicer car, you can call up some local companies and become an affiliate for them and not have to advertise and still make more money than you would on Uber.


----------



## UberSux25

Chauffeur_James said:


> You are 100% wrong!
> 
> you absolutely can get sued even if the accident wasn’t your fault, not to mention when the cop is on scene and the pax brings up you took him for cash, the cop will arrest you in some states if you aren’t permitted, and may also include that info on the report.
> 
> Also, if they are uninsured or underinsured, which happens a lot in Florida then your uninsured/underinsured Coverage will kick in.
> 
> Bottom line, if you want to take cash rides, go get the proper permits and insurance and stop being a damn ***. If you have a nicer car, you can call up some local companies and become an affiliate for them and not have to advertise and still make more money than you would on Uber.


Exactly what I’m saying! My guy!


----------



## Heisenburger

UberSux25 said:


> ...


I don't need studies that are merely *theoretical* and *hypothetical* and based on someone's *assumptions*. Someone who hasn't ever done this gig. Someone who likely doesn't even own a car. Someone with a good imagination.

I have real world data. I know all of my costs.

Show me your formula and I'll show you mine.


----------



## Wil Mette

UberSux25 said:


> Lots of studies out there. If you drive 10-15,000 miles per year then your true cost is about 58-61 cents per mile… but this was also done on 2018 when cars were cheaper and gas was $2.50 per gallon.


This was for NEW cars going 12,000 miles per year. 

Still, most drivers do not know the cost of driving their car. The average Uber/Lyft driver has 40% of their on-app miles without a pax, so multiply your cost per mile by 1.67. Before the price of gas increased, it was costing me between 25 to 30 cents per mile. Let us say 35 to 40 cents per mile or 58 to 67 cents per pax mile.


----------



## W00dbutcher

How can you accurately estimate the milage cost if the money used to purchase the vehicle can not be accurately estimated without knowing the length of time that vehicle will be in service? 

Granted if it ages out or you have a "get out" final date i understand. That's a fixed time frame so its estimable.

If not your first years expense is going to be astronomical because it's taking consideration of that Vehicles first year costs plus the cost of the vehicle. The longer the vehicle is in service the cheaper that per mile gets. 

Are these formulas people using take this in consideration, or is this just what's need to keep the vehicle operational?


----------



## Wil Mette

W00dbutcher said:


> How can you accurately estimate the milage cost if the money used to purchase the vehicle can not be accurately estimated without knowing the length of time that vehicle will be in service?


How long did your last car last?
If 200,000 miles and you are buying from the same manufacturer, use Price/(200,000 - miles when purchased) as the cost of depreciation. Add in gas, tires, oil, ...
Sure, this will be totally wrong when someone rear-ends you long before you reach 200,000, but it is a very good guess.
I got 256,000 miles in my last car, but I only expected to get 212,000 miles because it was already burning a little oil when I bought it. So I won that time.

In accounting, they teach straight-line depreciation (above) & accelerated depreciation. Companies usually use straight-line depreciation for everything except for taxes.


----------



## Donatello

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I picked someone up from the bus station and he told me his story. He had an accident doing a cash ride as an uber driver. He had a customer in the car obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> So far...
> 
> His car was totalled, he's out the car. No insurance coverage will fix it.
> The car was financed, he still has to pay back everything he owes.
> His customer filed a suit, he had to pay an attorney to lose the suit in a slightly more graceful fashion.
> The other driver's insurance filed suit, he had to pay an attorney to represent him to cut a slightly better deal.
> And he avoided being fired from his day job. (because it wasn't actually a crime)
> His *LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED* for driving without insurance.
> And he has to pay the damages to the other vehicles/injuries *before his license can be reinstated*.
> 
> And in personal consequences, He had to move to a hotel on skid row from the suburbs. Close enough to work that he can take a bicycle.
> 
> And to make matters better, if he bankrupts any of the debt away he still can't get his license back until he pays it off anyway.
> 
> 
> On the plus side he doesn't have to buy gasoline.
> 
> 
> 
> (the pic has nothing to do with anything, except making this eligible for front page)


One out of 10000000, it's a risk, sure but is it worth it?

I knew countless people who did cash rides, never were caught, still have an Uber account and deprived Uber/Lyft of revenue, it's a wi-win, don't try to scare people away, everyone knows if you crash on a cash ride you better have a plan.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Screwber driver north said:


> One out of 10000000, it's a risk, sure but is it worth it?
> 
> I knew countless people who did cash rides, never were caught, still have an Uber account and deprived Uber/Lyft of revenue, it's a wi-win, don't try to scare people away, everyone knows if you crash on a cash ride you better have a plan.



Why don’t you just stamp a fake Alaska license plate since your s perfect driver and never have accidents.

why get insurance at all?

your already risking compete financial ruin so you must already not have anything at all.

So how bout it?

Just get a fake license plate and cancel your insurance and save the $100 or whatever it is s month on insurance and be done with it.

then post on here about how your saving $1,200 a year by not having insurance.


sounds like a great idea doesn’t it? I mean your already taking a much bigger risk by taking cash customers so there’s really no need to even have insurance at all at this point.

Doesn’t sound like a good idea to you?

Accidents happen.The more miles you drive the higher your risk of having an accident.

Just because a lot of people get away with drunk driving doesn’t mean that it’s ok to do.

So why don’t we all just drink on the job?

What can it hurt, after all people drive under the influence hundreds of times before getting caught.

So why bother getting insurance registering cars legally or anything..

Here’s another idea… why don’t we just go to Walmart and find a car the same make/model as the one we own and steal it and out our license plate on it.
Drive it for 20-30,000 miles and dump it out or state with no plates and repeat the process. The we can just pretend that our vehicles have no expenses beyond gasoline.

It’s been done before.

Why buy gasoline… why not carry a bucket, a hammer, screw driver and funnel with you to the mall and steal 5 gallons at a time?


I mean if you really think about it it shouldn’t be too hard to just steal a car and gasoline to Uber with and use fake insurance documents to get yourself online.

Since your w perfect driver and all the cops will have no reason to check and it’s not like most of these crimes go unsolved.


heck why don’t you just cut out the middle man and just steal cars to sell. Honestly your probobly risking less financially just stealing cars. You obviously think you’d never get caught doing that sort of thing so why don’t you just steal cars for s living. Your already breaking the law so why don’t you just steal cars. After all it’s a victimless crime most of the time because most people have insurance to cover the theft of their car.

and odds are since you don’t have anything your worried about losing to lawsuits you should be able to just throw everything you own away while your serving your prison term.

Althou since your already commiting grand theft auto you might as well just rob a bank. I mean most of the time they are successful and since you’ll never get caught there’s no real risk right?


To be honest as long as you plead guilty and don’t waste a bunch of money on a lawyer odds are they s bank robbery will end up costing you less financially then having an accident on a cash customer.

from that aspect it’s a lower risk crime. A lot more time in jail but since you clearly don’t have anything or value now there’s nothing to lose if you spend 25 years in prison now is there?


And the best part of going to jail for violent felony like carjacking or bank robbery is the respect you’ll get in prison.

Heck if your good at hiding your haul from the police your risking s LOT less financially by robbing banks. Do your time in prison and then your out. Having been fed and housed for 15 years your way ahead versus actually working. And because you hit your stolen loot so we’ll you’ll have that nest egg to start your new life as an ex-con with.


I can honestly argue that for me to take cash rides off app is a higher financial risk than someone who is judgement proof to rob a bank and get caught…. Because it is.

And you’d probobly spend less time in court if you plead out an armed bank robbery case. More time in jail thou but you’ll get 3 hots and a cot. So that’s a plus.


just because there’s a lot of criminals it doesn’t mean that it’s ok to be a criminal. And when you do have an accident taking cash rides… you’ll feel an awful lot like a criminal when you spend the next 5 years in court.

And no I’m not proposing people actually get into auto theft or bank robbery. Just comparing the risks.


----------



## Donatello

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Why don’t you just stamp a fake Alaska license plate since your s perfect driver and never have accidents.
> 
> why get insurance at all?
> 
> your already risking compete financial ruin so you must already not have anything at all.
> 
> So how bout it?
> 
> Just get a fake license plate and cancel your insurance and save the $100 or whatever it is s month on insurance and be done with it.
> 
> then post on here about how your saving $1,200 a year by not having insurance.
> 
> 
> sounds like a great idea doesn’t it? I mean your already taking a much bigger risk by taking cash customers so there’s really no need to even have insurance at all at this point.
> 
> Doesn’t sound like a good idea to you?
> 
> Accidents happen.The more miles you drive the higher your risk of having an accident.
> 
> Just because a lot of people get away with drunk driving doesn’t mean that it’s ok to do.
> 
> So why don’t we all just drink on the job?
> 
> What can it hurt, after all people drive under the influence hundreds of times before getting caught.
> 
> So why bother getting insurance registering cars legally or anything..
> 
> Here’s another idea… why don’t we just go to Walmart and find a car the same make/model as the one we own and steal it and out our license plate on it.
> Drive it for 20-30,000 miles and dump it out or state with no plates and repeat the process. The we can just pretend that our vehicles have no expenses beyond gasoline.
> 
> It’s been done before.
> 
> Why buy gasoline… why not carry a bucket, a hammer, screw driver and funnel with you to the mall and steal 5 gallons at a time?
> 
> 
> I mean if you really think about it it shouldn’t be too hard to just steal a car and gasoline to Uber with and use fake insurance documents to get yourself online.
> 
> Since your w perfect driver and all the cops will have no reason to check and it’s not like most of these crimes go unsolved.
> 
> 
> heck why don’t you just cut out the middle man and just steal cars to sell. Honestly your probobly risking less financially just stealing cars. You obviously think you’d never get caught doing that sort of thing so why don’t you just steal cars for s living. Your already breaking the law so why don’t you just steal cars. After all it’s a victimless crime most of the time because most people have insurance to cover the theft of their car.
> 
> and odds are since you don’t have anything your worried about losing to lawsuits you should be able to just throw everything you own away while your serving your prison term.
> 
> Althou since your already commiting grand theft auto you might as well just rob a bank. I mean most of the time they are successful and since you’ll never get caught there’s no real risk right?
> 
> 
> To be honest as long as you plead guilty and don’t waste a bunch of money on a lawyer odds are they s bank robbery will end up costing you less financially then having an accident on a cash customer.
> 
> from that aspect it’s a lower risk crime. A lot more time in jail but since you clearly don’t have anything or value now there’s nothing to lose if you spend 25 years in prison now is there?
> 
> 
> And the best part of going to jail for violent felony like carjacking or bank robbery is the respect you’ll get in prison.
> 
> Heck if your good at hiding your haul from the police your risking s LOT less financially by robbing banks. Do your time in prison and then your out. Having been fed and housed for 15 years your way ahead versus actually working. And because you hit your stolen loot so we’ll you’ll have that nest egg to start your new life as an ex-con with.
> 
> 
> I can honestly argue that for me to take cash rides off app is a higher financial risk than someone who is judgement proof to rob a bank and get caught…. Because it is.
> 
> And you’d probobly spend less time in court if you plead out an armed bank robbery case. More time in jail thou but you’ll get 3 hots and a cot. So that’s a plus.
> 
> 
> just because there’s a lot of criminals it doesn’t mean that it’s ok to be a criminal. And when you do have an accident taking cash rides… you’ll feel an awful lot like a criminal when you spend the next 5 years in court.
> 
> And no I’m not proposing people actually get into auto theft or bank robbery. Just comparing the risks.


There is a plethora of ways to cover your ass while cash riding, I did it for more than 2 years and so did a ton of friends, your stories while true on paper are very hard to happen in reality, this coming from a guy who charged cash for a long time, if I ever Uber again, I would do it again, a ton of people still do it here in FL, what are you trying to prevent people from taking your on app rides? ROFL.


----------



## UberSux25

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Why don’t you just stamp a fake Alaska license plate since your s perfect driver and never have accidents.
> 
> why get insurance at all?
> 
> your already risking compete financial ruin so you must already not have anything at all.
> 
> So how bout it?
> 
> Just get a fake license plate and cancel your insurance and save the $100 or whatever it is s month on insurance and be done with it.
> 
> then post on here about how your saving $1,200 a year by not having insurance.
> 
> 
> sounds like a great idea doesn’t it? I mean your already taking a much bigger risk by taking cash customers so there’s really no need to even have insurance at all at this point.
> 
> Doesn’t sound like a good idea to you?
> 
> Accidents happen.The more miles you drive the higher your risk of having an accident.
> 
> Just because a lot of people get away with drunk driving doesn’t mean that it’s ok to do.
> 
> So why don’t we all just drink on the job?
> 
> What can it hurt, after all people drive under the influence hundreds of times before getting caught.
> 
> So why bother getting insurance registering cars legally or anything..
> 
> Here’s another idea… why don’t we just go to Walmart and find a car the same make/model as the one we own and steal it and out our license plate on it.
> Drive it for 20-30,000 miles and dump it out or state with no plates and repeat the process. The we can just pretend that our vehicles have no expenses beyond gasoline.
> 
> It’s been done before.
> 
> Why buy gasoline… why not carry a bucket, a hammer, screw driver and funnel with you to the mall and steal 5 gallons at a time?
> 
> 
> I mean if you really think about it it shouldn’t be too hard to just steal a car and gasoline to Uber with and use fake insurance documents to get yourself online.
> 
> Since your w perfect driver and all the cops will have no reason to check and it’s not like most of these crimes go unsolved.
> 
> 
> heck why don’t you just cut out the middle man and just steal cars to sell. Honestly your probobly risking less financially just stealing cars. You obviously think you’d never get caught doing that sort of thing so why don’t you just steal cars for s living. Your already breaking the law so why don’t you just steal cars. After all it’s a victimless crime most of the time because most people have insurance to cover the theft of their car.
> 
> and odds are since you don’t have anything your worried about losing to lawsuits you should be able to just throw everything you own away while your serving your prison term.
> 
> Althou since your already commiting grand theft auto you might as well just rob a bank. I mean most of the time they are successful and since you’ll never get caught there’s no real risk right?
> 
> 
> To be honest as long as you plead guilty and don’t waste a bunch of money on a lawyer odds are they s bank robbery will end up costing you less financially then having an accident on a cash customer.
> 
> from that aspect it’s a lower risk crime. A lot more time in jail but since you clearly don’t have anything or value now there’s nothing to lose if you spend 25 years in prison now is there?
> 
> 
> And the best part of going to jail for violent felony like carjacking or bank robbery is the respect you’ll get in prison.
> 
> Heck if your good at hiding your haul from the police your risking s LOT less financially by robbing banks. Do your time in prison and then your out. Having been fed and housed for 15 years your way ahead versus actually working. And because you hit your stolen loot so we’ll you’ll have that nest egg to start your new life as an ex-con with.
> 
> 
> I can honestly argue that for me to take cash rides off app is a higher financial risk than someone who is judgement proof to rob a bank and get caught…. Because it is.
> 
> And you’d probobly spend less time in court if you plead out an armed bank robbery case. More time in jail thou but you’ll get 3 hots and a cot. So that’s a plus.
> 
> 
> just because there’s a lot of criminals it doesn’t mean that it’s ok to be a criminal. And when you do have an accident taking cash rides… you’ll feel an awful lot like a criminal when you spend the next 5 years in court.
> 
> And no I’m not proposing people actually get into auto theft or bank robbery. Just comparing the risks.


You sound like you would tell someone to amputate their foot because they have a broken toe… well may as well just cut the foot off since the toes broke then you won’t have to wait for it to heal…..
Doing 10% cash rides off the radar is not nearly as risky as driving around 100% of the times with no insurance. Are you just exaggerating out your ass just to argue or are you actually that dense lol.


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## bobby747

Steve is correct . You guys are all dreaming. About insurance. 1st accident your best friend will sue you and say you drive him off the app to get a payday.
Buy commercial insurance like I did. To have better protection. And your still breaking irs and local TLC laws. But you wont lose your house.
If you own nothing. I guess it's all good


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

bobby747 said:


> Steve is correct . You guys are all dreaming. About insurance. 1st accident your best friend will sue you and say you drive him off the app to get a payday.
> Buy commercial insurance like I did. To have better protection. And your still breaking irs and local TLC laws. But you wont lose your house.
> If you own nothing. I guess it's all good


No as long as you REPORT IT to the IRS you are in full compliance with the IRS.

Zero of my cash revenue driving a cab gets reported until the end of the year. 

Local TLC laws?

those are a party foul ticket. It's like $150 and no points as long as you have insurance. Try not to get caught and use a few brain cells and those tickets will be less every year then the permit.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

bobby747 said:


> Steve is correct . You guys are all dreaming. About insurance. 1st accident your best friend will sue you and say you drive him off the app to get a payday.
> Buy commercial insurance like I did. To have better protection. And your still breaking irs and local TLC laws. But you wont lose your house.
> If you own nothing. I guess it's all good


Given that health insurance companies refuse to pay out for car accident injuries? This is the truth man. Once your insurance limit maxes out that's all she wrote and that's all the money they can get without suing you.

your three best customers are getting glass picked out of their face and going to PT and 3 different doctors for 6 months they won't be your best customers any more, they will be Plaintiffs.


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## bobby747

TLC rules vary by state . If you do a cash ride at jfk. In nyc. Omg they will tow your car and fine you.
Steve guys dont get what you are saying...cause the truth hurts . In 2014 i joined the forum for 1 reason to ask about commercial insurance.....I did not want my assets destroyed..great post and topic


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## Nique0201

The problem I have with those cost per miles formulas or whatever is they don't seem to take into tmaccount that the cost of the car has a limit.... If you buy say a 25k car at a certain point (other than tires oil and gas) there's a stop point in depreciation like I can only depreciate a 25k car 25k dollars if that makes sense . I'm doing 300 a day. 2100 a week. In 4 months I've made enough money to buy another 25k car. And I didn't go through all my tires and breaks in the 4 months. Yea I put gas in the car but I'm making money so I get the "equations exist" but they don't seem to (in my experience) represent reality. Now I am in Chicago and it takes me about 7-9 hours to hit the 300 (less on good tip days or the perfect storm of long rides) but if I worked at let's say the bank... It would take me 8 hours a day plus commutes kn both ends to make less after uncle same got ahold of me. In 6 years I've never paid a dime in taxes my tax lady is Jesus with write offs between all my expenses and tax breaks for being a small business owner.. it seems like people spend more time on here complaining than they do actually driving. If you want to make the money you can. But if you're going to look after every ride it can seem like it's not worth yea sometimes you get a 5 dollar ride but sometimes you get a 50 dollar ride etc .


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## oldfart

bobby747 said:


> Steve is correct . You guys are all dreaming. About insurance. 1st accident your best friend will sue you and say you drive him off the app to get a payday.
> Buy commercial insurance like I did. To have better protection. And your still breaking irs and local TLC laws. But you wont lose your house.
> If you own nothing. I guess it's all good


In Lee County Florida the permits were cheap. and now they cost nothing as Lee County recently rescinded their vehicle for hire permit law (no permits required). Collier County has been this way a while. 

The Port Authority still has a separate permit to drop off at the airport and a $100/yr fee. There are two requirements, 1) have a county permit, 2) have commercial insurance, I asked recently how the county action affects the airport permit, and was told "we dont know, Lawyers are working on it"

So stay tuned


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## oldfart

Nique0201 said:


> The problem I have with those cost per miles formulas or whatever is they don't seem to take into tmaccount that the cost of the car has a limit.... If you buy say a 25k car at a certain point (other than tires oil and gas) there's a stop point in depreciation like I can only depreciate a 25k car 25k dollars if that makes sense . I'm doing 300 a day. 2100 a week. In 4 months I've made enough money to buy another 25k car. And I didn't go through all my tires and breaks in the 4 months. Yea I put gas in the car but I'm making money so I get the "equations exist" but they don't seem to (in my experience) represent reality. Now I am in Chicago and it takes me about 7-9 hours to hit the 300 (less on good tip days or the perfect storm of long rides) but if I worked at let's say the bank... It would take me 8 hours a day plus commutes kn both ends to make less after uncle same got ahold of me. In 6 years I've never paid a dime in taxes my tax lady is Jesus with write offs between all my expenses and tax breaks for being a small business owner.. it seems like people spend more time on here complaining than they do actually driving. If you want to make the money you can. But if you're going to look after every ride it can seem like it's not worth yea sometimes you get a 5 dollar ride but sometimes you get a 50 dollar ride etc .



I liked this post, but I gotta add my experience

I started doing this almost 5 years ago with a Ford Explorer I paid $25000 for the care, but estimated its value when I started rideshare to be $18000. I figured I would be doing this for three years, and the car would be worth nothing at that time. So $6000 depreciation expense per year. As it turned out Im still droving the car

I grossed $4000 a month that first year and spent about $1000 on gas and oil changes and I had no other expenses that year. So yea, me too... The car was paid for, and fully depreciated in 6 months

I could calculate depreciation on a per mile basis Ive driven the car over 300000 miles since I started this thing so my depreciation expense has been 6 cents a mile. (and goes down each mile I drive

The important thing to note is that depreciation is not an actual dollar expense. Its nothing but numbers on a spread sheet. My actual numbers are currently, 80 cents a mile gross income, less 20 cents a mile gas, 5 cents a mile maintenance and repairs and 5 cents a mile insurance. (The gas number has been as low as 10 cents a mile and as high as 25 cents a mile. And the maintenance number is going up as the car ages)

Bottom line my actual expenses are 30 cents a mile and if you want to add depreciation... 35 cents

Whats more important than depreciation is the cost of another car when you retire the old one. and to have either the credit or the savings to make that happen. 

Bottom line is that the cost of a new car is a more important consideration than the depreciation of the old one.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

Nique0201 said:


> The problem I have with those cost per miles formulas or whatever is they don't seem to take into tmaccount that the cost of the car has a limit.... If you buy say a 25k car at a certain point (other than tires oil and gas) there's a stop point in depreciation like I can only depreciate a 25k car 25k dollars if that makes sense . I'm doing 300 a day. 2100 a week. In 4 months I've made enough money to buy another 25k car. And I didn't go through all my tires and breaks in the 4 months. Yea I put gas in the car but I'm making money so I get the "equations exist" but they don't seem to (in my experience) represent reality. Now I am in Chicago and it takes me about 7-9 hours to hit the 300 (less on good tip days or the perfect storm of long rides) but if I worked at let's say the bank... It would take me 8 hours a day plus commutes kn both ends to make less after uncle same got ahold of me. In 6 years I've never paid a dime in taxes my tax lady is Jesus with write offs between all my expenses and tax breaks for being a small business owner.. it seems like people spend more time on here complaining than they do actually driving. If you want to make the money you can. But if you're going to look after every ride it can seem like it's not worth yea sometimes you get a 5 dollar ride but sometimes you get a 50 dollar ride etc .


I get what your saying...

The problem is that in many markets you just can't hit those numbers, ever. A $300 day on uberX would require either a massive incentive for half of that, or like 40 rides, which exceeding 2 rides an hour is nearly impossible around here.

A $50 ride at uberX rates is literally a 100 mile ride factoring in the return miles here. So really at no point are there "good" rides just an awful lot of bad ones. A $300 day is practically unheard of here. Sure I DO make $300 days all the time, just not at X rates.

And it's not "sometimes" getting a $5.00 ride. I get half a dozen or more $4.20-5.40 rides a day.. But I charge a LOT more than uberX drivers get. _A LOT more_. And I _sometimes_ get rides in the $4.20-$5.40 range.

the problem on uber around here is getting a $10.00+ ride is increasingly more and more rare with more and more $3-9.00 rides. Which never add up. A $20 ride is theroetically possible on uberX here, They happen all the time... However... They are like 20-22 mile rides with tolls that usually have return mileage on top of that.

A $20 uberX payout ride is literally in the $50-60 range for me. I'll usualy get 3-4 of those day and they'll make up a very large chunk of my revenue.

$30+ fares = 33-50% of my revenue
$10-$30 = 25-33% of my revenue
$4-$10 = Half of my tides and 15-33% of my revenue.

I average $17.00 a ride and defintly hit $300+ a day. However i'm getting 352% as much per mile and 500% as much per minute as uberX drivers do. Which yes that means that on the highway I'm getting 3 1/2 times as much and 5 times as much sitting in traffic.

Oh there's incentives.. in theory... sometimes when they actually want to pay what they promised. But Incentives aren't consistent. Surges? Those are a joke. Herere's an extra $2.00 and a zero % chance of a tip. My tips will equal and usually exceed the local X drivers incentives + tips.

And it's not like i'm in backwoods florida either.. This is fricken disney world i'm talking about, where the lowest per mile rates in the US are for uberX, for no apparent reason.


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## Donatello




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## PukersAreAlwaysYourFault

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Uber needs to do a better job of informing both drivers and customers of the consequences of going "off the meter".
> 
> I inform customers of that when they ask to do a cash trip, they say where they are from, all the drivers do it because Uber's pay is so little and the drivers have nothing to lose.
> 
> So I lay the blame completely at Uber's feet. One for not compensating enough and two, for not informing customers and drivers.
> 
> New drivers think they are taxis, customers are largely ignorant and so forth.
> 
> 
> Pirates are the reason why with a taxi the commercial insurance is on the vehicle 24/7. Not temporary like rideshare.
> 
> Uber is to blame 100%.


Wrong. If drivers read their terms of agreement, it explicitly states not to do this. If you do it, you're a stupid criminal. It's like telling a bank teller employee to not rob the cash register on your shift.


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## Jenny-Seko

That looks scary, it's total damage to the pocket and finances.


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## PukersAreAlwaysYourFault

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## Buckiemohawk

i just switched my insurance today for fl with rideshare endorsement


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