# Upfront fares: Driving more Business Your Way



## RussellP (Dec 9, 2016)

> 12/16/16 12:31PM EST
> 
> From: Uber New England
> 
> ...


So does this mean what I see as the fare in my driver app, is not the same as the fare that the rider is actually paying? What happens when there are incidental detours, does Uber eat the cost of these differences?

Or am I just imagining things... Am I worried about nothing?


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

RussellP said:


> So does this mean what I see as the fare in my driver app, is not the same as the fare that the rider is actually paying? What happens when there are incidental detours, does Uber eat the cost of these differences?
> 
> Or am I just imagining things... Am I worried about nothing?


There have been reports of drivers and riders comparing numbers and the driver has a lower fare (before fees) than what the rider paid.

These upfront fares though do change. As a rider, I have seen my final price be a $1 or $2 higher.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

With up front fare you are still paid base, mileage and time however the rider is usually charged much more than those amounts so Uber pockets the difference.


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## SteveNBham (Dec 30, 2015)

RussellP said:


> So does this mean what I see as the fare in my driver app, is not the same as the fare that the rider is actually paying? What happens when there are incidental detours, does Uber eat the cost of these differences?
> 
> Or am I just imagining things... Am I worried about nothing?


We are about to get screwed right before New Years Eve. 4.9 Surge with Uber making the money and paying drivers the normal rate mileage and time via upfront payment.


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## Dutch-Ub (Mar 1, 2016)

We don't have upfront fares in my market but is sounds good to me. Avoid heavy traffic, pax still pays the same, and still get distance and time payed. This might actually do increasingly revenue. Might squize an extra ride every two hours with the time saved. Also, no more asking PAX if it is ok to take a different route.

What am i missing here?


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## Carbalbm (Jun 6, 2016)

Dutch-Ub said:


> We don't have upfront fares in my market but is sounds good to me. Avoid heavy traffic, pax still pays the same, and still get distance and time payed. This might actually do increasingly revenue. Might squize an extra ride every two hours with the time saved. Also, no more asking PAX if it is ok to take a different route.
> 
> What am i missing here?


By no longer linking the passenger pay to the driver pay, Uber can get away with upping the rates they charge passengers without paying drivers more. What if Uber adds a surge to the passenger's fare, but doesn't add it to the driver's pay? Or if they maintain two separate rate systems. One for passengers and one for drivers?


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## Fuber1 (Sep 11, 2016)

Uber is already doing this every single ride and ripping off the drivers and passengers if your a driver just ask your passenger how much they paid or just put the addresses into the pax app and you will notice that uber is ripping you off that is right uber is ripping you off in your face in broad day light which means you are a complete moron for supporting this illegal fraud scam company


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

Dutch-Ub said:


> We don't have upfront fares in my market but is sounds good to me. Avoid heavy traffic, pax still pays the same, and still get distance and time payed. This might actually do increasingly revenue.


LOL not even close, unless you mean "revenue for Uber". You're missing the entire point. Passengers do NOT pay the same, they pay much more -- just this time Uber keeps the juice instead of sharing it with you.


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## RussellP (Dec 9, 2016)

So I just tested out a few scenarios on my own to see what would happen, and I don't actually see any discrepancies...

I started off on Google Maps and entered 2 well known locations... Google tells me that trip is 55 minutes and 56 miles (70 mph highway)... Based on just what google calculated that would mean

56 x $1.00 per mile = $56
55 x $0.15 per minute = $8.25
Base Fare: $1
Surcharge $1.15

Total Fare should be: $66.40

Then I went into the Uber Rider App and requested the same ride... Ubers Upfront Fare Offer: $66.45

So it seems they are not overcharging passengers really?


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## Fuber1 (Sep 11, 2016)

Bullshiit dude they are ripping you and the pax off every single ride I guarantee you can not post a pax ride summary versus your ride summary where they are not ripping you off


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## Buddywannaride (Aug 1, 2016)

Dutch-Ub said:


> We don't have upfront fares in my market but is sounds good to me. Avoid heavy traffic, pax still pays the same, and still get distance and time payed. This might actually do increasingly revenue. Might squize an extra ride every two hours with the time saved. Also, no more asking PAX if it is ok to take a different route.
> 
> What am i missing here?


Sounds good to get screwed by Uber? What are you talking about? Don't you understand that Uber is taking way more than a 25 percent cut of the fare? I've seen them take over 50 percent. !! Upfront fare is a scam that over charges riders and screws drivers. Uber is a greedy no good scum bag shit hole


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## NCUberGuy (Aug 27, 2016)

Buddywannaride said:


> Sounds good to get screwed by Uber? What are you talking about? Don't you understand that Uber is taking way more than a 25 percent cut of the fare? I've seen them take over 50 percent. !! Upfront fare is a scam that over charges riders and screws drivers. Uber is a greedy no good scum bag shit hole


I took a screen shot of my quote as a passenger and texted it to the driver. This was after explaining to the driver how uber is pulling the overcharging/underpaying crap. I also left a comment confirming to the driver how much I paid.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

It took me a while for it to sink in but another poster made a valid point. At no time had uber said we get paid 75% of what uber charges pax. Uber pays driver a set rate in time and distance. What uber charges pax doesnt necessarily have to correlate what they pay drivers. We have our rate: we either accept that and drive, or dont and.... not drive. 

It sucks, it really does, but unless theres actual documentation in the agreement that specifically says that we get 75% of what uber charges pax versus 75% of base fare + time + mile. 

I wondered why there isnt a lawsuit regarding this and once that was pointed out to me, it made sense...


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## Buddywannaride (Aug 1, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> It took me a while for it to sink in but another poster made a valid point. At no time had uber said we get paid 75% of what uber charges pax. Uber pays driver a set rate in time and distance. What uber charges pax doesnt necessarily have to correlate what they pay drivers. We have our rate: we either accept that and drive, or dont and.... not drive.
> 
> It sucks, it really does, but unless theres actual documentation in the agreement that specifically says that we get 75% of what uber charges pax versus 75% of base fare + time + mile.
> 
> I wondered why there isnt a lawsuit regarding this and once that was pointed out to me, it made sense...


Then why have rates at all? Uber is charging pax more than their advertised rates.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Buddywannaride said:


> Then why have rates at all? Uber is charging pax more than their advertised rates.


What advertised rates?

They only offer fare estimates on their website. Like i said, lets look at the driver agreement. Does it say anywhere on there that Uber must pay drivers 75% of what they charge pax or do we get paid based on a rate table? I dont believe theres any wording that specifically says that we get 75% of the actual pax fare.

I know, it sucks, but unless the agreement we all signed says otherwise, we get paid based on the rate table and they are free to charge their customers whatever they want.

Hopefully we have a leg to stand on to fight this, maybe we can remove the 25% from our rate table and uber earns by charging pax above the driver rates.

Yes, its double dipping but heres the thing. Someone also brought this to my attention. We are both customers of uber. Pax pays uber for the ride, drivers pay uber 25% for use of their app.


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## Buddywannaride (Aug 1, 2016)

If the rates are just an 'estimate' then drivers should be paid on the actual charge not this arbitrary 'estimate'. Come on.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Buddywannaride said:


> If the rates are just an 'estimate' then drivers should be paid on the actual charge not this arbitrary 'estimate'. Come on.


Whats stopping you from driving a taxi and getting all your money?


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Buddywannaride said:


> If the rates are just an 'estimate' then drivers should be paid on the actual charge not this arbitrary 'estimate'. Come on.


What we should be paid and what we signed a contract to be paid are two different things.

I agree with you, unfortunately, we all signed the same contract. Fortunately for us, we can remove ourself from that contract immediately without penalty.

I hate it, trust me. I see the double dipping but technically, theres nothing we can do about it. What a company charges their customers and how they compensate their contractors are two completely different things.

They are not obligated to have a direct link unless specified in the contract.

If i can be proven wrong, ill be more than appreciative to be!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

RussellP said:


> So I just tested out a few scenarios on my own to see what would happen, and I don't actually see any discrepancies...
> 
> I started off on Google Maps and entered 2 well known locations... Google tells me that trip is 55 minutes and 56 miles (70 mph highway)... Based on just what google calculated that would mean
> 
> ...


 Right, 'cause one spot check confirms that Uber has not overcharged pax / underpaid drivers.

If you are a pickpocket, do you walk down the street and pick the pocket of every single person you come across? No, you do it selectively, hoping that nobody will notice.


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## GalinMcMahon (Jun 30, 2016)

Fuber1 said:


> Bullshiit dude they are ripping you and the pax off every single ride I guarantee you can not post a pax ride summary versus your ride summary where they are not ripping you off


This is an opinion. I did a side by side of similar trips I took as a passenger and as a driver. Everything added up.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Ne


steveK2016 said:


> What advertised rates?
> 
> They only offer fare estimates on their website. Like i said, lets look at the driver agreement. Does it say anywhere on there that Uber must pay drivers 75% of what they charge pax or do we get paid based on a rate table? I dont believe theres any wording that specifically says that we get 75% of the actual pax fare.
> 
> ...


Need to fire uber


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

RussellP said:


> So I just tested out a few scenarios on my own to see what would happen, and I don't actually see any discrepancies...
> 
> I started off on Google Maps and entered 2 well known locations... Google tells me that trip is 55 minutes and 56 miles (70 mph highway)... Based on just what google calculated that would mean
> 
> ...


Can you show the Upfront fare offer ? Pics ?


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## Buddywannaride (Aug 1, 2016)

GalinMcMahon said:


> This is an opinion. I did a side by side of similar trips I took as a passenger and as a driver. Everything added up.


There's reasons why Uber doesn't show drivers what the pax was charged. Compare more rides - especially longer ones - you will see Uber taking over 50 percent.


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## Fuber1 (Sep 11, 2016)

Yes uber has published and advertised rates in each city however they are so dishonest illlegal scam fraud company that they are charging more than their advertised rates that's illegal like I said before I guarantee you can not post pax ride summary versus driver ride summary where the driver is not
Getting ripped off it's every ride and it's not just pennies it's dollars every ride my last two rides pax got charged 12$ and I got a fare of $9 before commission leaves me with 5$ And next rider was charged 34$ I got paid $24 which means Travis
And uber people deserve to be fined jailed and beaten in the streets for their theft


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Fuber1 said:


> Yes uber has published and advertised rates in each city however they are so dishonest illlegal scam fraud company that they are charging more than their advertised rates that's illegal like I said before I guarantee you can not post pax ride summary versus driver ride summary where the driver is not
> Getting ripped off it's every ride and it's not just pennies it's dollars every ride my last two rides pax got charged 12$ and I got a fare of $9 before commission leaves me with 5$ And next rider was charged 34$ I got paid $24 which means Travis
> And uber people deserve to be fined jailed and beaten in the streets for their theft


Why do you still drive?


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## Fuber1 (Sep 11, 2016)

I ask myself the same question


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

You all are crying and whining about Uber's supposed thievery but if you read this guys post.


steveK2016 said:


> I know, it sucks, but unless the agreement we all signed says otherwise, we get paid based on the rate table and they are free to charge their customers whatever they want..


 And this poster sums up what I have always wondered............


Shangsta said:


> Whats stopping you from driving a taxi and getting all your money?


 I collect the entire fare from pax....at end of trip I stop meter and collect the entire fare not some "thieving" company or double dipper or whatever else Uber has been called I don't have to worry if Uber will short change me I don't have to take screenshots or look at my trip total pax pays me and it goes into MY POCKET....no one elses....and I get tipped on 85%-90% of my trips


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Shangsta said:


> With up front fare you are still paid base, mileage and time however the rider is usually charged much more than those amounts so Uber pockets the difference.


Yeah, I'll bet the flat rate is more than the actual fair, and driver gets screwed. Ask the rider what the upfront price was, Compare, etc.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> Yeah, I'll bet the flat rate is more than the actual fair, and driver gets screwed. Ask the rider what the upfront price was, Compare, etc.


We'll see what happens when the government writes the laws that permanently throw out binding arbitration and the big **** of a class action lawsuit of uber/lyft drivers VS uber/lyft hits the courts.


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## omahagreg (Sep 25, 2014)

Here is one I got paid more than passenger was quoted (accident blocking intersection so detour required).

Yes, Uber could use the upfront pricing to rip drivers off, but they are not. They really are not that sneaky. They instead rip us off with base rates too low to make a profit.

Up front pricing is a good thing. I get more requests during surge times and passengers much less likely to whine about escalated rates.


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## Fuber1 (Sep 11, 2016)

Dude you posted a ride with a detour


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## omahagreg (Sep 25, 2014)

Fuber1 said:


> Dude you posted a ride with a detour


Since up front pricing began, every ride has a detour

But I wanted to show, Uber both honored their quote to the passenger, and paid me the higher actual route. Uber lost a large piece of their revenue for the benefit of the driver in this case.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Shangsta said:


> Whats stopping you from driving a taxi and getting all your money?


The taxi company


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## omahagreg (Sep 25, 2014)

Shangsta said:


> Whats stopping you from driving a taxi and getting all your money?


Where do taxi drivers get all of the money? In my market most taxi drivers pay $425-$450 per week to the taxi company for their cab lease. A few are on a split 60/40. Cab company gets 60%, driver gets 40% and pays for gasoline out of their cut. Cabbies I am figuring out have it better than Uber drivers due to the higher regular fares and the tipping, however unless the driver also happens to own the company, they don't get all of the money.

Please explain what that statement means.


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## Buber2005 (Jan 1, 2017)

I see a ton of complaints across these forums about how uber rips everyone off, but nobody seems to have any actual evidence if this happening, just hearsay and (poor) conjecture. 

As partners, and according to our agreements, uber charges a booking fee that we never see, and then we collect the fare - the full fare - from which uber takes a percentage commission. It's as simple as that. This theory that pay rates to partners are fixed and fare rates to riders are moving, and that uber is screwing everyone, is just speculation and frustration. Not based in any observable facts. 

Up front pricing isn't a new pricing scheme or rate change, it's just a change in the rider app aimed at avoiding surprises that generally came from riders seeing a surge factor and not being able to do basic math or know that 5x means your fare will be larger than normal! Up front pricing simply means uber is sharing a fare estimate up front based on data already provided when requesting a ride. This is very easy to do because they know the distance and a reasonable estimate of travel time. There is absolutely no change to the way fares are being calculated, rates paid, or commission rate. Any suggestion otherwise seems to be just conspiracy theory. 

I would love love love LOVE to see someone with concrete evidence of pax being charged more than the fare that shows up to driver + booking fee. If that is happening, I'll eat crow and suggest we all sign onto a lawsuit! It's astonishing the frequency of claims that uber is cheating drivers in contrast to the complete and utter absence of any actual evidence.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

omahagreg said:


> Where do taxi drivers get all of the money?


Taxis have expenses but when it comes to a fare they get all of it. Its not like Uber where we have no idea how much the customer paid and how much of it we will get until after the trip is done.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

I drive a taxi....I collect EVERYTHING from the meter and once a week I pay thcompany $349 to cover their fleet commercial insurance and the dispatching they provide me......I know what I made at end of each and every trip I take cuz I collect payment not some 3rd party company....also I don't have any "booking fee"....my rates are $3.00 drop (turning meter on) $2.00 per mile....$.36 a minute if stopped or driving less than 18 mph....plus I get $1.00 per additional pax.......so I know by estimate of mileage what I SHOULD receive at end of each trip....plus tips are received about 85-90% of time so that helps.......so once a week on Weds I pay the company $349 that's it..nothing else......I am able to accept street hails, account trips, state sponsored school trips, medical account trips, personal account trips, and so-on and so-forth......

So I know and only I have to worry about my pay I don't have to worry about getting shafted or cheated or robbed or whatever else people are claiming Uber is doing......why? Because I and only I get paid directly from pax then I pay my fee to the company.....no-one else separates my money from the pax that pay me for my driving.....especially some 3rd party company named Uber..........that is the epitome of a "four letter word"........I just don't understand why people allow Uber to rake them over the coals but yet everyday they log on and bend over and smile..........


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## RCatman23 (Dec 28, 2016)

Uber has defiantly changed a lot of polices that they have not told us about, not just upfront fares which they are now doing in my area too and I know this because a passenger told me about it right before the new year. They are being much more greedy about fair adjustments and much more unwilling to reimburse for much of anything. I mean I understand that its a company and they need to make money but I don't like the fact that it was not told to me for any change in policy or pricing.


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## Buber2005 (Jan 1, 2017)

RCatman23 said:


> Uber has defiantly changed a lot of polices that they have not told us about, not just upfront fares which they are now doing in my area too and I know this because a passenger told me about it right before the new year. They are being much more greedy about fair adjustments and much more unwilling to reimburse for much of anything. I mean I understand that its a company and they need to make money but I don't like the fact that it was not told to me for any change in policy or pricing.


Bull. I get constant emails from Uber about everything in the world, including policy changes.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

omahagreg said:


> Where do taxi drivers get all of the money? In my market most taxi drivers pay $425-$450 per week to the taxi company for their cab lease. A few are on a split 60/40. Cab company gets 60%, driver gets 40% and pays for gasoline out of their cut. Cabbies I am figuring out have it better than Uber drivers due to the higher regular fares and the tipping, however unless the driver also happens to own the company, they don't get all of the money.
> 
> Please explain what that statement means.


I never got all the money when i owned my own taxi outright either, i paid out gas, lost a bunch to toyota for maintenance, lost days at a time to having my car in the shop to get something fixed.

Driving for a company here... rates start at $700 a week (dispatch only, no airport sticker, no theme park cab stands) and you can easily pull in $250 a day which is 1750 a week on a slower week to as much as 2500 on a busy week. (or driving 84+ hours...*stupid people*)

$1750 revenue
-700 (car)
-$110 (gas)
-$100 in tolls.
$840 on slow week

$2500 revenue
-700 (car)
$200 (gas)
$50 (over mileage fee) [aka driving too many miles)
-$150 in tolls.
$1400 profit on a busy week.

Or a shift
$250-300
$110 (car)
10-15 (gas)
0-15 (tolls)
$110-180... even as high as $200 with tips.

We do have it better IF the business is still there, Orlando didn't take nearly as big as hit and i still outearn uber drivers by a wide margin for working similar hours.

Personally i'm leasing out a dirt cheap car with no cab stand privelages.

$220-350 in revenue
$66 (vehicle lease)
$10-13 (gas)
$0-15 (tolls

$129- $260 profit usually.


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