# Uber CEO talks exporting Prop 22 after mixed earnings report



## OC-Moe (Oct 6, 2018)

https://www.axios.com/uber-ceo-talk...ort-b6b02b0c-e71c-462e-b712-14393aec7fc2.html


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

😅😅 of course they do. They want to lock in this deal before anyone realizes how bad of a deal it really is.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> s how bad of a deal it really is.


....but better than AB5, yes? &#128580;


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

SHalester said:


> ....but better than AB5, yes? &#128580;


Going with AB5 left both options open. There's a reason they fought so hard to not go with AB5. That's because it benefited us more than them. However, all they had to do is make a couple simple changes and they could pass the ABC test and then we could be independent contractors. They refused to do so. so now you're stuck with proposition 22 and they still get to get away with everything they do and us having no recourse. Neither one were perfect but at least going the other way, whatever option they chose to do looked out for us to some degree. More so than now and more so than with proposition 22.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> There's a reason they fought so hard to not go with AB5. That's because it benefited us more than them.


But but i don't want to be an employee. I don't want to wear their uniform. I don't want be forced into shifts. I like my flexibility. High 5 :big grin:


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

sasu66 said:


> But but i don't want to be an employee. I don't want to wear their uniform. I don't want be forced into shifts. I like my flexibility. High 5 :big grin:


They could have easily made a couple changes to pass the ABC test. Trust me they didn't want to pay all the taxes that came with being an employee. Every driver who voted yes on proposition 22, are a bunch of *****es. They basically agreed to make less money while still being treated like shit.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> Every driver who voted yes on proposition 22, are a bunch of @@@@@es.


A recent scientific study shows that, 99% of the yes on 22 voters have a very low IQ.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> Going with AB5 left both options open. There's a reason they fought so hard to not go with AB5. That's because it benefited us more than them. However, all they had to do is make a couple simple changes and they could pass the ABC test and then we could be independent contractors. They refused to do so. so now you're stuck with proposition 22 and they still get to get away with everything they do and us having no recourse. Neither one were perfect but at least going the other way, whatever option they chose to do looked out for us to some degree. More so than now and more so than with proposition 22.


They couldn't, the part they kept failing at with the ABC test was that California said drivers were part of their core business. Uber said their core business was a technology company, not a driver company. This is the main reason they wouldn't let them stay independent contractors. AB5 was written in a way that makes it almost impossible for an independent contractor to exist. California did that on purpose as they didn't want any independent contractors so they could collect more taxes and have no more lawsuits to deal with


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

NicFit said:


> They couldn't, the part they kept failing at with the ABC test was that California said drivers were part of their core business. Uber said their core business was a technology company, not a driver company. This is the main reason they wouldn't let them stay independent contractors. AB5 was written in a way that makes it almost impossible for an independent contractor to exist. California did that on purpose as they didn't want any independent contractors so they could collect more taxes and have no more lawsuits to deal with


Or . . . MAYBE because we aren't independent contractors! There's a thought. I know we don't agree on a lot but you CANNOT possibly tell me we are not part of their Core Business! Do they all brainwash ya'll at headquarters in San Fran or what? Because ya'll have lost your grasp to reality.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> Or . . . MAYBE because we aren't independent contractors! There's a thought. I know we don't agree on a lot but you CANNOT possibly tell me we are not part of their Core Business! Do they all brainwash ya'll at headquarters in San Fran or what? Because ya'll have lost your grasp to reality.


This is the main reason, honestly I don't like this line about AB5, it means no one can build a company with independent contractors. I don't see why this even matters, to me it's just California saying you have to pay as much taxes as possible. I never felt like an employee for Uber, they are a technology company that does more then just drive people around, they have a trucking service that kinda like Uber, self driving cars, food delivery. To label any one thing as core between all those it's that they write software to connect. Since they are developing self driving cars it also means human drivers aren't essential to them in the future (yeah they'll never make self driving cars for decades but that's something else) They would of shut down the rideshare part but let Uber eats still operate, how can you say what's core when California doesn't apply AB5 equally, if drivers were the core then why were they going to let Uber eats continue? Aren't they the same thing. Want to talk reality why don't you figure out what California is really trying to do because I don't have a clue


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Daisey77 said:


> so now you're stuck with proposition 22


yes, I remember seeing the position that some non-stakeholders posted here: Let AB5 rule and 'maybe' there will be changes made 'later'.

Nope. The freedoms lost due to AB5, in no way, made up for 'any' of the 'perceived' benefits (if any).

As a direct stakeholder I have to say no to a schedule I had to chose and do so timely before it was filled up. Or being directly supervised, or having to take every single ping because they were no longer 'request' but dispatch ORDERS.

Voters spoke, AB5 goose is cooked. And with all the carve outs to AB5, it is quite an empty shell of nothing.

Very glad Prop 22 is a go and Biden is it and President will be evicted in a few short months. All good.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> Voters spoke, AB5 goose is cooked. And with all the carve outs to AB5, it is quite an empty shell of nothing.
> 
> Very glad Prop 22 is a go and Biden is it and President will be evicted in a few short months. All good.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

um, u do know for the most part labor is decided at the state level. 'A' president can jump up and down all they want: just theater.

Biden is pro union and that ain't happening because drivers are like kitty cats; they can't be herded to vote 50% +1 to unionize. 

Federal gov has way more things to worry about, right about now.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> um, u do know for the most part labor is decided at the state level. Federal gov has way more things to worry about, right about now.


If Elizabeth Warren is at Treasury and Bernie Sanders is at Labor then Uber stock can go all the way down to penny stock club.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> If Elizabeth Warren is at Treasury and Bernie Sanders is at Labor then Uber stock can go all the way down to penny stock club.


keep that dream alive.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

In the state of Florida,

A min wage employee model would pay approximately $20 an hour doing this gig.
$8.52 an hour + 20 miles at .575 = $11.50. or about $20.00 an hour. Reasonable pay and if your actually getting that you can make a taxi work on those especially if you get a tip in every now and then. $20 an hour is in the $250 range for 12 hour. Entirely respectable pay and enough to pay a taxi rental and walk away with min wage.

I'm not surprised ...

Now ubers 120% of min wage while engaged?

120% of min wage plus 30c a mile?

$8.52/60 X 1.2= 17.12C a minute
17.12c a minute plus 30c a mile,

At these rates a 20 mile 25 minute ping would pay out just...

$3.42 time and $7.50 in mileage or $10.92

$10.92 to go from Disney world to the Orlando airport, and more than likely back because no one is coming from the airport at the crack dawn when people are going to the airport. And you all know what's going to happen, uber won't pay for the return trip coming from the middle of nowhere...

And at 5:30 am the airport is the last place I want to be doing uber/lyft. All the hotels outside the airport going to the airport are min trips with piles of luggage and customers thinking your getting $8.00 for the ride instead of $2.00 whatever.

So what's honestly one of the best taxi fares in Orlando, turns into not even $11.00 for 25 minutes of driving on uber.

AND IRONICALLY...

A cab fare from one of the hotels just outside the airport to the terminal?

That pays out $9.00-$10.20 Or just a tad bit less than what uber would pay out under a 120% of min wage model going 20 miles.



sasu66 said:


> If Elizabeth Warren is at Treasury and Bernie Sanders is at Labor then Uber stock can go all the way down to penny stock club.





SHalester said:


> keep that dream alive.


It's why i voted for Biden..


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

NicFit said:


> They couldn't, the part they kept failing at with the ABC test was that California said drivers were part of their core business. Uber said their core business was a technology company, not a driver company. This is the main reason they wouldn't let them stay independent contractors. AB5 was written in a way that makes it almost impossible for an independent contractor to exist. California did that on purpose as they didn't want any independent contractors so they could collect more taxes and have no more lawsuits to deal with


The ABC test is much too lenient.

Any company that sets the rates and makes the rules for someone to perform a service should be classified as the EMPLOYER of the worker, period.

As far as "core" business is concerned, if you've chosen to drink Uber's Kool-Aid, that's your problem. Don't expect anyone with common sense to drink it with you.

On at least a couple of occasions, Dara's tongue became loose enough for him to admit that Uber is a "transportation company".



NicFit said:


> This is the main reason, honestly I don't like this line about AB5, it means no one can build a company with independent contractors.


No one should be allowed to "build" a company with ICs.

By their very nature an IC isn't part of a company and thus can't be used to build a company. That's what employees are for.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

You will never vote yourself a high pay with laws. Union will not help all.
The problem is too many drivers and nobody is going to pay you to sit empty. 
You many vote and unionize 1/2 the drivers out of work and become a online cab driver running like heil to make 18 an hour😂


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

great if these nutjobs get senate majority theyll get the pro act nationwide, overnight the end of 10's of millions of flexible jobs


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

dnlbaboof said:


> great if these nutjobs get senate majority theyll get the pro act nationwide, overnight the end of 10's of millions of flexible jobs


I hope so. We need more laws. Maybe then I can go back to my old career as a tv game show host.
(I never actually got to do it because Pat Sajak and Alex Trebek had it locked up)
At least I'll get a check now.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> The ABC test is much too lenient.
> 
> Any company that sets the rates and makes the rules for someone to perform a service should be classified as the EMPLOYER of the worker, period.
> 
> ...


So I can set my own rate and there are very few "rules" to speak of, most of it laws in regards to rides. I can choose to not allow smoking or to allow it in my car, Uber doesn't deicide that.I don't know what kind of rules your talking about. As for the "build" part California made it so you can't have independent contractors at all in your company. They've had to give so many exceptions to AB5 it's ridiculous, clearly it wasn't written well, I can see one or two exceptions but they had to give too many. Maybe they need to go back and figure out how to do the test so the exemptions can pass it. Maybe you should stop drinking the kool-aid from the socialists and think of how dumb they made these laws, when people want to be independent contractors then why aren't they allowed to do so? Prop 22 passed easy, Uber was designed so drivers can come and go as they please, it was never designed as a primary source of income and those that choose to do it full time knew that there were draw backs including myself that it was never designed for that. If you don't like it then don't drive for them, no one is forcing a single person to drive for Uber


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

NicFit said:


> So I can set my own rate and there are very few "rules" to speak of, most of it laws in regards to rides. I can choose to not allow smoking or to allow it in my car, Uber doesn't deicide that.I don't know what kind of rules your talking about. As for the "build" part California made it so you can't have independent contractors at all in your company. They've had to give so many exceptions to AB5 it's ridiculous, clearly it wasn't written well, I can see one or two exceptions but they had to give too many. Maybe they need to go back and figure out how to do the test so the exemptions can pass it. Maybe you should stop drinking the kool-aid from the socialists and think of how dumb they made these laws, when people want to be independent contractors then why aren't they allowed to do so? Prop 22 passed easy, Uber was designed so drivers can come and go as they please, it was never designed as a primary source of income and those that choose to do it full time knew that there were draw backs including myself that it was never designed for that. If you don't like it then don't drive for them, no one is forcing a single person to drive for Uber


I agree although maybe they sold it as a career. And people bought it.

The real problem is too many drivers.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

wallae said:


> I agree although maybe they sold it as a career. And people bought it.


It was never meant to be a career, more like a temporary kind of thing. 95% of drivers don't last a year (or something like that, I don't know the exact number but it's around there I think) which tells me why are we trying to make them employees, the turn over is so high that it's would be dumb for Uber to try to keep up with the hiring when people won't commit to staying with them. I think this is another reason they don't want employees, imagine Uber trying to keep their schedules with enough drivers? Driver 1 didn't show up, neither did 2, 3 and 4 and now we don't have enough drivers for the event that's going on right now. Then people will complain they can't get rides and Uber would be done. These people so against the independent contractors don't realize all of why it's the way it is, they just want their own greedy selfish ways so they can milk every dime they can off Uber instead of figuring out how to be a successful independent contractor. If you aren't making money driving for Uber currently then your doing it wrong



wallae said:


> I agree although maybe they sold it as a career. And people bought it.
> 
> The real problem is too many drivers.


Yes they may have too many drivers but instead of trying to work on that they just gut the whole thing and ruin it for everyone


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

pray for the Georgia race pray for a republican senate or else the pro act will pass and will end all flexible jobs in all of America overnight, the democrats don't stop terrorizing people with lockdowns and joblessness, except when they want to riot or get their hair done.....


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> and Bernie Sanders is at Labor











Where do you get this crap from? I seriously want to know. Is there some United Socialist News website I'm unaware of?


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

wallae said:


> Maybe then I can go back to my old career as a tv game show host.
> (I never actually got to do it because Pat Sajak and Alex Trebek had it locked up)


A spot just opened up.

Or I should say, "What game show host's position just opened up?"


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> View attachment 523875
> 
> Where do you get this crap from? I seriously want to know. Is there some United Socialist News website I'm unaware of?


To understand socialism, watch some Prop 22 ads. Mom drivers. Army veteran drivers. Agitation. We'll fire drivers. We'll increase prices.. That's how Uber conned the uninformed drivers and cheap paxholes. They used former Soviet Union's socialist scare tactics to get naive, uninformed people to vote for 22.

To understand Robert de Niro, watch his Tony award video about the clown. Watch the uncensored version.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

sasu66 said:


> To understand socialism watch Prop 22 ads again. That's how Uber conned the uninformed drivers and cheap paxholes. They used former Soviet Union's communist propaganda tactics to scare naive people.
> 
> To understand Robert de Niro watch his Tony award video about the clown. Watch the uncensored version.


Prop 22 was a fight against socialism so if they used their communist tactics then good for Uber for really sticking it to them


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

NicFit said:


> So I can set my own rate


You don't set the rates, Uber does. They ALLOW you to set the multiplier, something that Uber doesn't allow in the other 49 states.



NicFit said:


> there are very few "rules" to speak of


You've gotta be kidding. Take a look at your contract. It's full of do's and dont's with threats to terminate if the do's and don'ts aren't obeyed. And anytime Uber feels like changing the rules, they simply send out new revisions of the rules that must be "agreed" to by the drivers or they can't go online.

If Uber decides there should be a smoking policy, they'll institute it. Back when Lyft used mentors to train drivers, some cars weren't approved by the mentor due to cigarette smoke residue on the interior of the car.

Every car used by the drivers is subject to Uber and Lyft's approval.



NicFit said:


> They've had to give so many exceptions to AB5 it's ridiculous


That was due to intense lobbying by various industries. NO "cutouts" should have been allowed, but the backers of AB5 knew the measure never would have had a chance at passage or survived a referendum if the cutouts weren't included.



NicFit said:


> Maybe you should stop drinking the kool-aid from the socialists


You're another of many many people who throw that word around without knowing what you're talking about. If you knew what you were talking about you'd know that what I'm advocating isn't socialism. Not even remotely close.



NicFit said:


> Uber was designed so drivers can come and go as they please


Uber was designed to make its owners and executives extremely rich. Uber has always grudgingly allowed drivers to come and go as they please because they knew if they didn't, the drivers would be classified as employees by the govt. But make no mistake about it, Uber hates not being able to dictate it, and they use various weapons to control it as much as they can. The most powerful weapon they use is their garbage pay rates that requires drivers to work much longer hours to reach their financial goals.


NicFit said:


> it was never designed as a primary source of income


False.

Since DAY ONE, Uber has been recruiting drivers to work full time. The vast majority of their incentives such as Quest give the best bonuses to FULL TIME drivers.

Uber recently started sending drivers the supposed "average" weekly earnings for their markets.... FULL TIME earnings.



NicFit said:


> those that choose to do it full time knew that there were draw backs including myself that it was never designed for that


Another falsehood.

Not only has Uber always recruited full timers, they got into trouble with the govt for inflating the full time earnings of NYC and SF drivers in their recruitment advertising. Uber had to pay fines in the millions of dollars.

Two or three months before Travis instituted his disastrous summer 2014 rate cuts that turned rideshare into a low-paying job, he was recruiting drivers to invest in FLEETS of cars and promoting it as a "profitable and sustainable" business opportunity. The rate cuts resulted in many bankruptcies and repos for the drivers who made the mistake of believing scumbag Travis.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

NicFit said:


> It was never meant to be a career, more like a temporary kind of thing. 95% of drivers don't last a year (or something like that, I don't know the exact number but it's around there I think) which tells me why are we trying to make them employees, the turn over is so high that it's would be dumb for Uber to try to keep up with the hiring when people won't commit to staying with them. I think this is another reason they don't want employees, imagine Uber trying to keep their schedules with enough drivers? Driver 1 didn't show up, neither did 2, 3 and 4 and now we don't have enough drivers for the event that's going on right now. Then people will complain they can't get rides and Uber would be done. These people so against the independent contractors don't realize all of why it's the way it is, they just want their own greedy selfish ways so they can milk every dime they can off Uber instead of figuring out how to be a successful independent contractor. If you aren't making money driving for Uber currently then your doing it wrong
> 
> 
> Yes they may have too many drivers but instead of trying to work on that they just gut the whole thing and ruin it for everyone


Initially it was GREAT money so many people mistook it for a career. Then they got burned.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

dnlbaboof said:


> pray for the Georgia race pray for a republican senate or else the pro act will pass and will end all flexible jobs in all of America overnight, the democrats don't stop terrorizing people with lockdowns and joblessness, except when they want to riot or get their hair done.....


I like it split.

>>>Initially it was GREAT money so many people mistook it for a career. Then they got burned.

I don't call 800 including cash tips in 23 hours garbage pay.
I would challenge you to do that at Walmart or McDonald's.

I'm in another state and I effectively set my own rate
I only except surge rides
2 minutes away +3.75
5 minutes +5
10 minutes +10
&#128514;

No weaving or stumbling drunks at any price&#128514;


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

goneubering said:


> Initially it was GREAT money so many people mistook it for a career. Then they got burned.


It's still not bad money, I can set my own rates and wait for the pings, though it may be slower then it used to because of driver saturation. I never treated as a career, I am looking for something else but I haven't found it yet. Rideshare pays my bills with extra cash in my hand so I can't complain. I don't like being an employee for someone else as what I can earn will exceed what they pay. With Uber I do a 75/25% spilt with them since I am using their technology which is better then anything else except my own business. Even with my own business I will still have to pay all kinds of stuff to others, nothing in this world is free and you can't own everything. Point is I do it full time and know it's not suppose to be my only source of income, if you can't understand that then you shouldn't be trying to do Uber full time, it just wasn't designed for that


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Off today. No surge 
Saw a few cars with lights and people in the back 
Tempted to call them scabs😂


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> You don't set the rates, Uber does. They ALLOW you to set the multiplier, something that Uber doesn't allow in the other 49 states.
> 
> You've gotta be kidding. Take a look at your contract. It's full of do's and dont's with threats to terminate if the do's and don'ts aren't obeyed. And anytime Uber feels like changing the rules, they simply send out new revisions of the rules that must be "agreed" to by the drivers or they can't go online.
> 
> ...


Wow you are so delusion, you know what, go drink the Jonestown kool-aid. AB5 is just a socialist push to make everyone a "worker" employee so it fits in their tax plan so then can make the employees support all the rest of their socialist programs. California will make $7 billion a year more on getting rid of independent contractors and they don't have to deal with any more lawsuits. They are anti-capitalist and you know it. A law shouldn't have so many push backs that everyone that the law was designed for resents it so much they have to intensely lobby against it and have last I checked with Prop 22 the support of almost 60% of the voters. As for the rules most of them are state and federal laws that they have to enforce and omg you have to do the service that was request of you that they are paying you for like having a clean car or not being rude is just what is expected of someone paying for a service. I can put a disco ball in my car and as long as it is safe for car use Uber can't tell me no. As for training and not allowing cars that smell like smoke I'm glad, what if that trainee is highly sensitive to smoke? I don't like it anymore now that I quit smoking and if a car smells like that I wouldn't ride in it either. But they do let the drivers do their regular rides though if enough people downrate the car for the smell they'll get rid of him, Lyft on their own won't. So your saying years ago they put a stop to what Travis was advertising then what's the issue? Anyone knew it wasn't an actual full time job but you could work as little or as much as you want. And yeah, anything that's mainstream is to make someone else rich, as soon as I figure out a plan I will hire people like you at minimum wage so I can get rich off of them, that's how it works, if you don't like it quit rideshare and make your own company with employees and stop harassing the ones who like Uber the way it is


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

wallae said:


> Off today. No surge
> Saw a few cars with lights and people in the back
> Tempted to call them scabs&#128514;


What state do you drive in?


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

NC
I’m glad to be off it’s been a long week
23 hours


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

OC-Moe said:


> https://www.axios.com/uber-ceo-talk...ort-b6b02b0c-e71c-462e-b712-14393aec7fc2.html


Opposition to AB5 was the reason for Prop 22 winning, not the prop itself, which has less worth than a used Kleenex.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Opposition to AB5 was the reason for Prop 22 winning, not the prop itself, which has less worth than a used Kleenex.


I'm firmly in the camp that these people who want protection and a minimum wage will effectively turn themselves into online cabdrivers


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

wallae said:


> I hope so. We need more laws. Maybe then I can go back to my old career as a tv game show host.
> (I never actually got to do it because Pat Sajak and Alex Trebek had it locked up)
> At least I'll get a check now.


Speaking of Alex Trebek, RIP

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...ex-trebek-jeopardy-host-death-trnd/index.html


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> We'll fire drivers.


wrong. They wouldn't HIRE all active drivers. Neither would Lyft, or any driver related gig company. FACT. Seems somebody might have been confused......


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

wallae said:


> You will never vote yourself a high pay with laws. Union will not help all.
> The problem is too many drivers and nobody is going to pay you to sit empty.
> You many vote and unionize 1/2 the drivers out of work and become a online cab driver running like heil to make 18 an hour&#128514;


Most drivers are "part time" anyway, according to Uber.

This time next year most drivers will be gone and the ones left behind will be bearing the consequences of those who voted for Prop 22.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

wallae said:


> I'm firmly in the camp that these people who want protection and a minimum wage will effectively turn themselves into online cabdrivers


What these people think they are going to get is paid vacation, retirement, and all these other things that a career job would offer, I don't think any of that is required by law and Uber doesn't have to give anything more then what the law requires. What they don't understand is that they'll have to raise prices even if they do offer it and lower the amount of drivers so the few that are left might get something if Uber just doesn't fold due to high prices and lack of demand. Hardly anyone will win if they make them employees and at least 150k people will no longer have any access to earn anything in the short term and if Uber folds completely due to it they'll be no one earning anything anymore


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Yep. I I don’t need anyone to take care of me
Or laws to protect me


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

NicFit said:


> They've had to give so many exceptions to AB5 it's ridiculous, clearly it wasn't written well, I can see one or two exceptions but they had to give too many.





NicFit said:


> Maybe they need to go back and figure out how to do the test so the exemptions can pass it


Im confused. they gave out too many exemptions. Yet they need to figure out how to do the test so exemptions can pass . . .

I'll just say this. Anyone who is personally invested in something, doesn't have an issue keeping their story straight. Very different when someone is promoting something that conflicts with their personal belief. Be careful of those Freudian slips &#128521;


NicFit said:


> It was never meant to be a career, more like a temporary kind


I love how this has became the number one defense against the OG drivers &#128517; GTFOH with that BS. Show me where in writing this is a thing. I promise you this was never even discussed 6 years ago. All their incentives, rental reimbursements, and such definitely suggest otherwise


NicFit said:


> 95% of drivers don't last a year (or something like that, I don't know the exact number but it's around there I think) which tells andwhy are we trying to make them employees


Yeah because anyone with half a brain can pick up on the shenanigans from the get-go! Go interview the 90% of drivers who quit within 9 months.( actual statistics at one point). 


NicFit said:


> What these people think they are going to get is paid vacation, retirement, and all these other things that a career job would offer,


You really don't listen to what others have to say to you. Those are probably the least of our worries. At least for those who truly understand this business and how these companies operate but hey, I know those reasons only simplify your argument. Dig deeper. let's see what you got


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

wallae said:


> I hope so. We need more laws. Maybe then I can go back to my old career as a tv game show host.
> (I never actually got to do it because Pat Sajak and Alex Trebek had it locked up)


Not any more.

And, there's always been a potential Vanna White slot on Jeopardy...


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> And, there's always been a potential Vanna White slot on Jeopardy...


Did you read her book Vanna speaks?
It was quite good (although the spelling was horrible)


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

wallae said:


> Did you read her book Vanna speaks?
> It was quite good (although the spelling was horrible)


No. So I just read some Amazon reviews like this one to catch up. Think I've got an idea now....

AMAZON: REVIEW
"_My husband and I grew up in the 1980s/early 1990s, and Vanna White was (apparently) his first celebrity crush. I bought him this book, a Vanna White doll, and a copy of the Playboy she posed for as a gag 30th birthday gift. And yes, all of these items exist.

One positive thing that I can say about this book is that Miss White is VERY honest. She admits that she is not a virgin, and was encouraged by her mother to take "the pill" as a teen -- statements that may have been very shocking to the 1980s Wheel of Fortune fan. To modern readers, of course, the more shocking thing is that she doesn't discuss condom use -- until you realize that, until this point, she had been living in a world without AIDS. Oh, the 80s!!

Another shocking thing is how much detail she provides. She rambles on and on; she might start with a description of her day and end up somehow giving the reader her favorite crochet patterns (no I'm not kidding). She also has some classic 80s beauty and diet tips -- everything from skipping breakfast to keep your weight down, to pushing back your cuticles every day in the shower -- none of which are advisable now. And she faithfully lists every activity she participated in, pageant she competed in, and boy she dated in high school. You're left thinking, "Surely these details are important. She would not have included them otherwise, right?" But no, I assure you -- they're not. One has to wonder what amount of 80s-grade cocaine the editors were on, allowing her to include all of these seemingly useless factoids.

That being said, some parts of the book are actually interesting, even by my jaded millenial standards. The portion about her mother's early death from lung cancer is actually heartbreaking (and pretty much earned the book its two stars from me, frankly).

This is a fun book for someone who is REALLY into Vanna or 80s nostalgia. Although if you really want a better dose of both, I recommend the doll myself_."


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

It was a joke (spelling


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> Im confused. they gave out too many exemptions. Yet they need to figure out how to do the test so exemptions can pass . . .
> 
> I'll just say this. Anyone who is personally invested in something, doesn't have an issue keeping their story straight. Very different when someone is promoting something that conflicts with their personal belief. Be careful of those Freudian slips &#128521;
> 
> ...


Ok, I'm getting tired of this subject, first off how is it a slip when I say there giving out too many exceptions so maybe they need to rewrite it so not every single last independent contractor has to fight to keep their status and become employees, so maybe I didn't say it so clearly or precisely to the point or maybe I was trying to lead you to a conclusion or maybe it's just how I'm myself connecting the dots on an idea to fix this whole mess. And yet you just confirmed this is a high turn over job, not a career. People don't work at McDonald's for 40 years and retire, they do that for a few years at most until they build a work history and move on to something better. I plan on doing the same thing. I'm using Uber to learn how a business operates and once I get more experience I'll move on and start another business. I don't plan on doing this until I can retire, why muddle up something just so some whiny person can get unemployment because they couldn't cut it doing rideshare. Most people want independence, not to keep relying on this system who will drain you until you can't work anymore, leave you with hardly anything while they made tons of money from you. Right now I'm getting 75% of every ride I complete with Uber, you try going to any other company and ask for that, they'll laugh at you and you lucky you make 25% but you'll get a couple of perks and protections because you don't have the half a brain to make it on your own. I don't want to feel safe, I want the ability to succeed or fail, that drives me to make my decisions so I can make more money. My freedom to come and go as I please is worth giving up everything an employee gets. I want cash, I don't want to pay into unemployment, I don't want health benefits, I don't want retirement, I don't want whatever else they are offering, I want the cash and with rideshare how it is I can make on average $30 an hour. Once again like a broken record I'll say it again, if you don't like it then go do something else and leave the people who want it like this and not be wage slaves alone


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## simont23 (Jul 24, 2019)

The earnings report wasn't mixed. It had an obvious message. No profit for the foreseeable future.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

NicFit said:


> What these people think they are going to get is paid vacation, retirement, and all these other things that a career job would offer, I don't think any of that is required by law and Uber doesn't have to give anything more then what the law requires. What they don't understand is that they'll have to raise prices even if they do offer it and lower the amount of drivers so the few that are left might get something if Uber just doesn't fold due to high prices and lack of demand. Hardly anyone will win if they make them employees and at least 150k people will no longer have any access to earn anything in the short term and if Uber folds completely due to it they'll be no one earning anything anymore


If our customers are unable or unwilling to pay higher rates so that we can earn a living wage and so that the stock holders can earn a fair return on their investment than the company must fail (unless of course we really are essential workers and the government subsidizes Uber and us). Id be interested in what local bus service in my county costs per ride.. I bet its a lot more than the $1 riders pay

I dont understand how "socialism" gets introduced into this discussion., Whether we are employees or contractors Uber is capitalism at its best (or worst) . In a socialist economic system "the people" own the means of production. In a capitalist system individuals own the means of production... Stockholders own Uber, we own our cars, This is regulated capitalism
The question is how government regulates us

I think Uber and Lyft can get around or through this Employee vs. Contractor mess by following the FedEx and Amazon model. They contract with local delivery companies. And these companies hire the drivers.

Or perhaps the "bread route" model. The bakery companies contract with individuals to deliver their product, but those individuals are required to organize as corporations or LLCs,


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Within acceptance rate of just 34% and a decline rate of 4% I still don’t see how I can be considered an employee.

Also, by only excepting Surge and demanding a different surge for different pick up distances I negotiate a price for every job

Again, how long would I last at Walmart? 66 times of 100,I tell the boss: no, i’m not going to look at the spill in aisle nine.
4 times I wonder over and say that’s too nasty for me....

Or that nasty spill will cost you 29 an hour.

I would be fired in a week.

That said, you will never convince someone with no skills that there is no free lunch once they have illusions of grandeur.

I’m out.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

wallae said:


> Within acceptance rate of just 34% and a decline rate of 4%


Ummmm . . . You're missing 62% of your rides


wallae said:


> I still don't see how I can be considered an employee.


Because we're part of their Core Business&#129335;‍♀


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> Ummmm . . . You're missing 62% of your rides





Daisey77 said:


> Ummmm . . . You're missing 62% of





Daisey77 said:


> Ummmm . . . You're missing 62% of


That's fine
You are free to take the crappy rides
820 in 24 hours is all I need
I don't wanna be greedy&#128514;

BTW many of the 24 hours online are on my couch or hanging with my friends declining rides
It's takes a lot of time missing (saying no) to all of the crap rides&#128514;
18 minutes away:no
No surge: no
4.6 rating: no


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

wallae said:


> That's fine
> Your free to take the crappy rides
> 820 in 24 hours is all I need
> I don't wanna be greedy&#128514;
> ...


&#129318;‍♀






However that's not what I was referencing. Your acceptance rate and your decline rate don't add up bud


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

LOL
Here it is 10:47

Since you want to be an employee so bad have you ever thought about a career at Burger King?

They had a sign in the window with a $300 sign on bonus.

Can you cook &#127839; fries?&#128514;&#128514;


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## Anonymousdude (Feb 14, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> They could have easily made a couple changes to pass the ABC test. Trust me they didn't want to pay all the taxes that came with being an employee. Every driver who voted yes on proposition 22, are a bunch of @@@@@es. They basically agreed to make less money while still being treated like shit.


One word; instant gratification. Long term drivers could have benefitted more if AB5 passed and they were patient.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Anonymousdude said:


> One word; instant gratification. Long term drivers could have benefitted more if AB5 passed and they were patient.


1/2 of the long term drivers would be with Daisy working at Burger King
The other 1/2, that they let stay, would be online cab drivers, working an 8 hour shift, making 17 bucks an hour going like hell, unable to decline any rides, and no tax deductions.


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

Hahahaha, what happened? trying to undo my next prediction?

I don't predict, fate is written boys... remember how each time they did something to stop their own demise in final destination, the outcome was the same in the end?

I just get my kicks out of this, cat (fate) likes playing with its food, mouse (uber).



sasu66 said:


> View attachment 523382
> 
> View attachment 523384


It's funny that they voted yes to Biden in California but when it became a threat to their wallets by Uber, they voted to **** the driver.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> wrong. They wouldn't HIRE all active drivers. Neither would Lyft, or any driver related gig company. FACT. Seems somebody might have been confused......


If you're going to quote me, do it properly. Read my original post again. Uber tried to scare uninformed drivers like yourself with Soviet Union style propaganda tactics: "If Prop 22 fails, "80%-90% of app-based driver jobs would disappear".

You can't lose a job you don't have and Uber is fighting to ensure these are not jobs. These are side gigs for housewives who work less than 20 hours a week.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

oldfart said:


> If our customers are unable or unwilling to pay higher rates so that we can earn a living wage and so that the stock holders can earn a fair return on their investment than the company must fail (unless of course we really are essential workers and the government subsidizes Uber and us). Id be interested in what local bus service in my county costs per ride.. I bet its a lot more than the $1 riders pay
> 
> I dont understand how "socialism" gets introduced into this discussion., Whether we are employees or contractors Uber is capitalism at its best (or worst) . In a socialist economic system "the people" own the means of production. In a capitalist system individuals own the means of production... Stockholders own Uber, we own our cars, This is regulated capitalism
> The question is how government regulates us
> ...


I'm already making $30 an hour, how does that not qualify as a living wage? As for the socialism part it's referred to because the government wants the independent contractor to conform to their ways and plans. They don't want people and businesses to be able to pay a lower tax because they want the money for their programs. By making AB5 and forcing independent contractors to become employees California will make $7 billion more a year. This is a socialist move, they want everyone to conform so they can spend your money on programs for other people. They don't want you to have the freedoms that an independent contractors has where you come and go to work as you please. They want control in your lives. This is why I've labeled this as a socialist move. No republicans endorse AB5 or opposed Prop 22. Why? Because people want the choice to be able to say no to a wage slave job and try to make it on their own. Gig apps are a new form of employment and instead of trying to work with it and just figure out how to keep it the way it was designed so there is hardly any central control they want to gut it and destroy the industry without a regard to how many jobs are lost



sasu66 said:


> If you're going to quote me, do it properly. Read my original post again. Uber tried to scare uninformed drivers like yourself with Soviet Union style propaganda tactics: "If Prop 22 fails, "80%-90% of app-based driver jobs would disappear".
> 
> You can't lose a job you don't have and Uber is fighting to ensure these are not jobs. These are side gigs for housewives who work less than 20 hours a week.


Those housewives who work less then 20 hours a week are the ones who will lose all access to income, by classifying them as employees 80-90% will lose access to make money. Why? Because they'll have a full time employee paid by the hour and in order to maximize having to pay someone by the hour they'll keep them as busy as possible. So that means no waiting for the next call, so instead of saturating the market so there is always a driver waiting you'll have riders waiting for a driver to be free. This means significantly less drivers. I could keep going but you can figure it out or not. Point is they will reduce the drivers by 80-90%, this is a capitalist move to maximize Uber's profit, not scare tactics of the Soviet Union, you sound like another hater from the blue just making stuff up so you get your way


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> "If Prop 22 fails, "80%-90% of app-based driver jobs would disappear".


I clearly understood the 'point' you were making and replied accordingly. You are wrong. The simple truth is the gigs effected would NOT have hired 100% of active drivers. That is the solid truth. Not sure where you have been the last 12 months, but clearly you are behind on the debates points made over and over here.

Please catch up? But really, you are so late to the party. it's over. Prop 22 is it until further notice. Accept that or not, but don't go backwards.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> I clearly understood the 'point' you were making and replied accordingly. You are wrong.


Ok, i am wrong. Uber didn't use former Soviet Union's propaganda tactics to scare uninformed drivers. "If Prop 22 fails, 80%-90% of app-based driver jobs would disappear" was a lie that i fabricated. You didn't start driving for Uber few months ago. You don't have any Uber stocks. You don't cheerlead for Prop 22. I'm wrong. You're right. Here's your 5 star ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐. I'll tip you in the app.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> Uber didn't use former Soviet Union's propaganda tactics to scare uninformed drivers. "


glad you can admit it. It was not scare tactics or bluffing. It was exactly what was going to happen. Simple logistics would show you that there was no way, due to increased costs, Uber et al would hire every single active driver. My estimate was around 50%, theirs much lower.
Doesn't matter, right? Prop 22 saved the day from THAT happening. So be happy? And then maybe review a few thousand notes posted here over the last year on this very topic. 
Just like the election, time to move on it's done.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

wallae said:


> That's fine
> You are free to take the crappy rides
> 820 in 24 hours is all I need
> I don't wanna be greedy&#128514;
> ...





NicFit said:


> I'm already making $30 an hour, how does that not qualify as a living wage? As for the socialism part it's referred to because the government wants the independent contractor to conform to their ways and plans. They don't want people and businesses to be able to pay a lower tax because they want the money for their programs. By making AB5 and forcing independent contractors to become employees California will make $7 billion more a year. This is a socialist move, they want everyone to conform so they can spend your money on programs for other people. They don't want you to have the freedoms that an independent contractors has where you come and go to work as you please. They want control in your lives. This is why I've labeled this as a socialist move. No republicans endorse AB5 or opposed Prop 22. Why? Because people want the choice to be able to say no to a wage slave job and try to make it on their own. Gig apps are a new form of employment and instead of trying to work with it and just figure out how to keep it the way it was designed so there is hardly any central control they want to gut it and destroy the industry without a regard to how many jobs are lost
> 
> 
> Those housewives who work less then 20 hours a week are the ones who will lose all access to income, by classifying them as employees 80-90% will lose access to make money. Why? Because they'll have a full time employee paid by the hour and in order to maximize having to pay someone by the hour they'll keep them as busy as possible. So that means no waiting for the next call, so instead of saturating the market so there is always a driver waiting you'll have riders waiting for a driver to be free. This means significantly less drivers. I could keep going but you can figure it out or not. Point is they will reduce the drivers by 80-90%, this is a capitalist move to maximize Uber's profit, not scare tactics of the Soviet Union, you sound like another hater from the blue just making stuff up so you get your way


We'll see if you are still working on "your terms, canceling unprofitable orders" and making "big bux" in a year.

I doubt it.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

observer said:


> We'll see if you are still working on "your terms, canceling unprofitable orders" and making "big bux" in a year.
> 
> I doubt it.


I will be since Prop 22 passed, the only thing is if California somehow voids Prop 22. If that happens then I don't want to live in California anymore since they don't respect the voters


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

I agree and it’s happened before.
but if you look at my earnings report you’ll see that I still refuse to work when it’s not paying.

The problem again is too many drivers
Unskilled workers and absolutely no barriers to entry

How do you fix it? The only way you can...By eliminating half of the drivers

You don’t need a union to do that, just require a 700 credit score and half the deadbeats would be gone😂


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

NicFit said:


> the only thing is if California somehow voids Prop 22


the bar to do that is very very high. It would have to be a brand new law and that ain't happening anytime soon. With Prop 22, AB5 is fully neutered. Plus add all the other 'carve outs' since passage. Pretty sure nothing is covered now. AB5 is hollow.

As of this morning there are no planned attacks against Prop 22.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

SHalester said:


> the bar to do that is very very high. It would have to be a brand new law and that ain't happening anytime soon. With Prop 22, AB5 is fully neutered. Plus add all the other 'carve outs' since passage. Pretty sure nothing is covered now. AB5 is hollow.
> 
> As of this morning there are no planned attacks against Prop 22.


Nothing is announced yet, whether or not there are attacks in the works we won't know until they go public with it, could be next week, month or year but if by 2022 there isn't anything by then I think California isn't going to fight it


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

wallae said:


> I agree and it's happened before.The problem again is too many drivers
> Unskilled workers and absolutely no barriers to entry
> 
> How do you fix it? The only way you can...By eliminating half of the drivers
> ...


Maybe that 700 credit would also make it nicer for riders.

I'm a rider quite often, and I ridden in cars with no AC, the windows open, trash, and 27 tree air fresheners.
Also it could stop us from seeing these everyday &#128514;


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

NicFit said:


> I'm already making $30 an hour, how does that not qualify as a living wage? As for the socialism part it's referred to because the government wants the independent contractor to conform to their ways and plans. They don't want people and businesses to be able to pay a lower tax because they want the money for their programs. By making AB5 and forcing independent contractors to become employees California will make $7 billion more a year. This is a socialist move, they want everyone to conform so they can spend your money on programs for other people. They don't want you to have the freedoms that an independent contractors has where you come and go to work as you please. They want control in your lives. This is why I've labeled this as a socialist move. No republicans endorse AB5 or opposed Prop 22. Why? Because people want the choice to be able to say no to a wage slave job and try to make it on their own. Gig apps are a new form of employment and instead of trying to work with it and just figure out how to keep it the way it was designed so there is hardly any central control they want to gut it and destroy the industry without a regard to how many jobs are lost
> 
> 
> Those housewives who work less then 20 hours a week are the ones who will lose all access to income, by classifying them as employees 80-90% will lose access to make money. Why? Because they'll have a full time employee paid by the hour and in order to maximize having to pay someone by the hour they'll keep them as busy as possible. So that means no waiting for the next call, so instead of saturating the market so there is always a driver waiting you'll have riders waiting for a driver to be free. This means significantly less drivers. I could keep going but you can figure it out or not. Point is they will reduce the drivers by 80-90%, this is a capitalist move to maximize Uber's profit, not scare tactics of the Soviet Union, you sound like another hater from the blue just making stuff up so you get your way


You confirm my point... You have no idea what socialism is. You are like my daughter when she was 5 years old and told the neighbor kid to **** Off She had no idea what the words meant..either


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

oldfart said:


> You confirm my point... You have no idea what socialism is. You are like my daughter when she was 5 years old and told the neighbor kid to @@@@ Off She had no idea what the words meant..either


Socialism means that the government is regulating the economy, not the individuals, in this case it's the government that saying it has to be this way so we make more money, that's how it starts with socialist governments, they start saying how it done and soon they'll start saying how much it should cost so individuals can't make any money, it'll go to the government. This is the start of them trying to be socialists, they think everyone should be equally wealthy and this is what they are trying to force upon independent contractors, they want you to make a standard rate of living, they don't want you to be able to earn more like I am. The additional profit I make they want to be in their welfare programs. This is how the socialist agenda starts, they want you to conform to their view on jobs and income, then they will start fixing prices. Don't be the 5 year old who can't understand what California is trying to do and you know it's a socialist play


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

NicFit said:


> AB5 is just a socialist push to make everyone a "worker" employee so it fits in their tax plan so then can make the employees support all the rest of their socialist programs.


First of all, the vast majority of Americans, probably including you, support at least some "socialist" programs such as Medicare and Social Security. So for most people, the argument boils down to how much "socialism" people support.

Several anti-AB5 posters including you try to discredit AB5 by saying the CA gov't motives are selfish. So what? There's nothing unusual about politicians of both parties having selfish motives. The important question is whether you believe a law or policy is a good one or a bad one. If it's good, support it, if it's bad, oppose it.



NicFit said:


> I checked with Prop 22 the support of almost 60% of the voters.


The Prop 22 supporters spent vastly more money advertising than the opponents, and they did an excellent job convincing the public that the result of AB5 will be higher prices, reduced service, and the loss of jobs.



NicFit said:


> As for the rules most of them are state and federal laws that they have to enforce and omg you have to do the service that was request of you that they are paying you for like having a clean car or not being rude is just what is expected of someone paying for a service


False. Read the contract.

There's no laws regarding having a "clean car", or providing "good" service. The many do's and dont's in Uber's contract are Uber's own, not the govt's in most cases.



NicFit said:


> me no. As for training and not allowing cars that smell like smoke I'm glad, what if that trainee is highly sensitive to smoke? I don't like it anymore now that I quit smoking and if a car smells like that I wouldn't ride in it either. But they do let the drivers do their regular rides though if enough people downrate the car for the smell they'll get rid of him


Uber knows that micromanaging every aspect of our work could leave them open to charges of violating IC laws (too much control), so they use the pax as their "informants" with their scummy rating system as well ratting out drivers who "displease" them.

Most drivers are well aware that saying the word "NO" to a pax demand puts them at risk of being fired.



NicFit said:


> So your saying years ago they put a stop to what Travis was advertising then what's the issue? Anyone knew it wasn't an actual full time job but you could work as little or as much as you want.


Uber's fine for false advertising is proof that Uber has been recruiting FULL TIME drivers since Day One, and that claims that rideshare was never meant to be full time are FALSE.

Recent studies of cities such as Seattle and NYC shows that Uber is heavily dependent of full time drivers and has been lying to the public about it.



NicFit said:


> And yeah, anything that's mainstream is to make someone else rich, as soon as I figure out a plan I will hire people like you at minimum wage so I can get rich off of them, that's how it works,


Getting rich with an ethical business is one thing, Uber's way of getting rich by exploiting workers is something entirely different.



oldfart said:


> If our customers are unable or unwilling to pay higher rates so that we can earn a living wage and so that the stock holders can earn a fair return on their investment than the company must fail (unless of course we really are essential workers and the government subsidizes Uber and us). Id be interested in what local bus service in my county costs per ride.. I bet its a lot more than the $1 riders pay


"Our" customers? You mean the ones whose names Uber knows but we're not allowed to know or even ask for? The ones whose rates are set by Uber and not us? The ones who can downrate us out of a job or rat us out to Uber? The ones who demand certain types of services that were decided by another party ( remember Lyft Taco Bell?)?

Thanks to Uber's whopping "booking fee", base rate short rides are HIGHER than taxi rates in many markets, and during "high demand" periods, they're MUCH HIGHER than taxi rates.



oldfart said:


> I think Uber and Lyft can get around or through this Employee vs. Contractor mess by following the FedEx and Amazon model. They contract with local delivery companies. And these companies hire the drivers.


That doesn't resolve the IC vs employee dispute, it merely shifts the dispute to the local delivery companies.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

NicFit said:


> I will be since Prop 22 passed, the only thing is if California somehow voids Prop 22. If that happens then I don't want to live in California anymore since they don't respect the voters


I don't think you understand.

Prop 22 gave uber full control of drivers.

FULL control.

They will start exercising that control slowly but surely. Your days of making 30 dollars an hour are over.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

observer said:


> I don't think you understand.
> 
> Prop 22 gave uber full control of drivers.
> 
> ...


No, I don't think so, they won't cut here since they need so many drivers. Clearly you don't understand how it works. If they don't pay the drivers here enough they won't drive, the traffic is horrible, the riders are a pain and the cost of living is too much. If they cut the rate drivers won't be flocking like they are now, each market is different so if your rates are low it's because you don't have a good market, probably a clue that you shouldn't be driving there


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

You boys sound like you started doing Uber yesterday or choose to ignore their track record, like those drivers who keep driving thinking they are banking major moo-la.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

The Entomologist said:


> You boys sound like you started doing Uber yesterday or choose to ignore their track record, like those drivers who keep driving thinking they are banking major moo-la.


Been driving for three years and yes I'm well aware of their track record, but they made changes and I'll forgive but not forget, they backtrack us again though I won't forgive. They got caught in this mess and they know we can still take Prop 22 away. I think they are finally done trying to undercut drivers so much but we will see. I don't fully trust them either but to be an employee for them sounds like a horrible idea


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

observer said:


> They will start exercising that control slowly but surely.


expand on that with details, please. Please note none of the details you provide can have any impact on the volume of rides a driver does since Uber et al would like to make some money to PAY for what they spent on Prop 22. The shareholders are NOT paying that bill.

go.

(the theory is you piss of drivers with something new, they take fewer rides) Helpful hint.

Put me in the group (or island....I enjoy being on an island by myself) that think and have posted Uber et al will not take any of the goodies away or introduce 'controls' that weren't there before.

Just look at my cute puppy as you flame me. :thumbup:


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

SHalester said:


> expand on that with details, please. Please note none of the details you provide can have any impact on the volume of rides a driver does since Uber et al would like to make some money to PAY for what they spent on Prop 22. The shareholders are NOT paying that bill.
> 
> go.
> 
> ...


That IS NOT FAIR.

All I can think of now is that cute puppy.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

NicFit said:


> No, I don't think so, they won't cut here since they need so many drivers. Clearly you don't understand how it works. If they don't pay the drivers here enough they won't drive, the traffic is horrible, the riders are a pain and the cost of living is too much. If they cut the rate drivers won't be flocking like they are now, each market is different so if your rates are low it's because you don't have a good market, probably a clue that you shouldn't be driving there


Lol the idiots drive for 53c a mile in Orlando and new suckers sign up every day.

For years I said that I'd they keep lowering rates they will lose their drivers. I was dead wrong.

The rates will come down, whether it's changes to surge flat rates, screwing you on miles, whatever new way they invent to screw you...

The rates will fall and idiots will keep driving for them.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Lol the idiots drive for 53c a mile in Orlando and new suckers sign up every day.
> 
> For years I said that I'd they keep lowering rates they will lose their drivers. I was dead wrong.
> 
> ...


53c a mile? That rate is so low, if I don't set my surge higher the base is 84c a mile. Like I said every market is different, I would never drive for 53c a mile. Clearly drivers there should do something but they don't so that's their issue. When they tried lower our rates under 70c a mile they started protesting. Drivers in Florida sound like they should of done something a long time ago but didn't so that's their issue. Though Uber is going to probably roll out the things from Prop 22 so maybe they'll get to set their own surge soon and problem is solved


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

SHalester said:


> expand on that with details, please. Please note none of the details you provide can have any impact on the volume of rides a driver does since Uber et al would like to make some money to PAY for what they spent on Prop 22. The shareholders are NOT paying that bill.
> 
> go.
> 
> ...


I'm posting this with my eyes closed.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/prop-22-labor/
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4ad...fy-gig-workers-but-how-will-he-actually-do-it
It's not over.

It's just a slight hiccup.

Ok, I scrolled up to look at the puppy after I posted.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

observer said:


> It's just a slight hiccup.


because it was from you I read both articles. Both articles have parts that are just wrong.

Biden is pro union and kinda is confused gig workers aren't employees and can't unionize themselves. He is forgiven, his age and all. He didn't want to lose the dwindling union voter(s).

Biden as President can do nothing. He can make noise, but that is it. We ain't employees and we ain't voting to unionize.

The war is over. Voters have spoken and the dip shyte S Calif lawmaker has been fully embarrassed. AB5 is a shell that hardly effects anybody (soon).

About the only issue I cared about was 'being' an employee and that isn't going to be. the slight benefits offered were and are a nit; I doubt I'd work enough hours to qualify and don't need them anyway.

thinking of bringing my puppy along; might help with tips? :coolio:


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

NicFit said:


> 53c a mile? That rate is so low, if I don't set my surge higher the base is 84c a mile. Like I said every market is different, I would never drive for 53c a mile. Clearly drivers there should do something but they don't so that's their issue. When they tried lower our rates under 70c a mile they started protesting. Drivers in Florida sound like they should of done something a long time ago but didn't so that's their issue. Though Uber is going to probably roll out the things from Prop 22 so maybe they'll get to set their own surge soon and problem is solved


They tried it once, uber cut the pay on the Uber black drivers (by over half) days before a hurricane hit the area (as a tropical storm by the time it hit Orlando) the protest got lost in the hurricane news.

https://digitaledition.orlandosenti...spx?guid=a5be2212-ca22-4d2b-8bce-0408cd83f560
"The city of Orlando is 100 percent focused on Hurricane Matthew right now," said Cassandra Lafser, a spokeswoman for Orlando. "We will look into that, obviously, when time permits."

Worst storm to hit Orlando since i've lived here and uber decided to slash pay before it.

As to why they didn't make a bigger stink since? Well the problem is who do we make a stink to exactly? There's no offices, during the pay cuts there wasn't even a greenlight hub.

It was 3 years until there was any sort of greenlight hub put in. Rates were already 53c a mile by the time a greenlight hub was put in within _100 miles_ of Orlando. They didn't want an office in town when they were operating illegally. Makes it hard for Orlando to shut down an office when they have to go out of the state to find it.

But really... if you think uber won't cut pay again your sorely mistaken, maybe Orlando's problem is there wasn't anywhere within 1000 miles to actually protest at when the pay got cut.

I'm shocked as you that they keep driving for uber, personally i doubt there's many Uber/lyft drivers around who ever saw more than 1 paycut. The turnover around here is insane, way worse than the national average.

I run into loads of people all the time who "tried" it and quit because the pay sucks. They have no driver loyalty and they need a constant influx of new suckers to keep rides going.

The people who are left are the truly desperate who need a few more bucks to cover their bills, not the professional drivers.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> They tried it once, uber cut the pay on the Uber black drivers (by over half) days before a hurricane hit the area (as a tropical storm by the time it hit Orlando) the protest got lost in the hurricane news.
> 
> https://digitaledition.orlandosenti...spx?guid=a5be2212-ca22-4d2b-8bce-0408cd83f560
> "The city of Orlando is 100 percent focused on Hurricane Matthew right now," said Cassandra Lafser, a spokeswoman for Orlando. "We will look into that, obviously, when time permits."
> ...


There's always someplace to protest, airports come to mind, Greenlight hubs, and anywhere else you want to protest. Truckers are striking over fracking, they just made it known. I'm witching an hour of both headquarters, they started protesting out here and it got noticed. Sounds like they had bad timing with the storm there and should of tried again


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Frankly I think people are just too stupid out here.

The pay is too low for me to bother with lyf/UberX.

It has been for years now.


By my estimation there’s zero people left who experienced the rates I consider acceptable.


People protest here by trying it and quitting.


Tuesday morning I talked to a guy a picked up.

“Yeah I tried Uber, I spent one night that I thought I was busy hustling and went home around 3:30. Looked at my earnings to next morning and cashed out and never logged back on since. It was like $80 for 8 hours..”


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Frankly I think people are just too stupid out here.
> 
> The pay is too low for me to bother with lyf/UberX.
> 
> ...


$80 for eight hours? I made more then that in late March when we first crashed out here. Normal days I make $200, pay $40 for gas and probably $40 for other car stuff while walking away with $120~ profit, those aren't exact numbers and it may be less or more for the car stuff but I hadn't figured it out and it should be close. On good days I'll make $300+, talked to some drivers here and they've made $400+ but that's 12-16 hour days on a good day that has some huge event. $80 a day I would be done, that means I would essentially be driving for Uber for free. Florida has always had them crazies though and some just don't care. Still can't believe anyone would do that for $80 a day, sounds like there aren't enough riders for the amount of drivers but they just won't stop waiting around. If it gets slow here I go home, waiting around is boring


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

NicFit said:


> $80 for eight hours? I made more then that in late March when we first crashed out here. Normal days I make $200, pay $40 for gas and probably $40 for other car stuff while walking away with $120~ profit, those aren't exact numbers and it may be less or more for the car stuff but I hadn't figured it out and it should be close. On good days I'll make $300+, talked to some drivers here and they've made $400+ but that's 12-16 hour days on a good day that has some huge event. $80 a day I would be done, that means I would essentially be driving for Uber for free. Florida has always had them crazies though and some just don't care. Still can't believe anyone would do that for $80 a day, sounds like there aren't enough riders for the amount of drivers but they just won't stop waiting around. If it gets slow here I go home, waiting around is boring


No, $80 for 8 hours when he was busy for 8 hours.

That comes to about 2-3 pings (short pings, min or cancels) an hour for 8 hours.

Cracking $20 an hour isn't going to happen without surges here, and with new surge forget about it.

If i could make $300-400 a day i'd be driving uberX.

But for some reason I drive a taxi. Because I'm making $340-400 in 2 days (ALRIGHT, in a 24 hour rental spread out between 9:00 am and 9:00 am) and keeping $200+

An "average" taxi fare is about $15 here. That $15 average translates to $5.00 average with uber, with half of them being min and the other half being $5-10.

It's really hard to get a fare over the _5 miles_ or so it takes to exceed $5.00 on uber/lyft. I'll get 5-10 a day under $10 at taxi rates, and another 5-10 under $15. All of the above being min trips on uber/lyft.

5 miles 15 minutes...
$2.65 in mileage
$1.20 in time
$1.00 base

$4.85

VS
5 miles X $2.40 = $12.00
plus another $3-3.60 in red light time.

Kinda ****ed... you just can't make money doing uber/lyft.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

wallae said:


> You will never vote yourself a high pay with laws. Union will not help all.


Laws can certainly raise driver pay dramatically.

Any state govt has the power to regulate pay rates and could mandate taxi pay rates for drivers.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> No, $80 for 8 hours when he was busy for 8 hours.
> 
> That comes to about 2-3 pings (short pings, min or cancels) an hour for 8 hours.
> 
> ...


That's your market, I don't know why but for some reason Florida rideshare is just low. $20 a hour here without surges is below normal. When it's busy I'll drive 15 minutes, get there and have someone waiting to go another 15 minutes, maybe have to some times drive 2-5 minute to them and I'll do that for about an hour or two before I have to turn off the app and go to the bathroom. Most of the time I'm going from one ping to the next without much of a break. If your market can't do that then there is too many drivers. Florida needs to fix rideshare there, sounds like you guys got left in the dark and no one is doing anything there


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

NicFit said:


> Most of the time I'm going from one ping to the next without much of a break. If your market can't do that then there is too many drivers. Florida needs to fix rideshare there, sounds like you guys got left in the dark and no one is doing anything there


Or have you considered YOUR market may be the abnormal market . . . abnormally busy compared to the rest of the country? You don't think the entire country functions as your market does, do you??



NicFit said:


> Florida needs to fix rideshare there, sounds like you guys got left in the dark and no one is doing anything there


And Who exactly do you propose should be doing something? Uber is the one onboarding new drivers. Both companies have said they'll never have enough drivers driving for them


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

NicFit said:


> That's your market, I don't know why but for some reason Florida rideshare is just low. $20 a hour here without surges is below normal. When it's busy I'll drive 15 minutes, get there and have someone waiting to go another 15 minutes, maybe have to some times drive 2-5 minute to them and I'll do that for about an hour or two before I have to turn off the app and go to the bathroom. Most of the time I'm going from one ping to the next without much of a break. If your market can't do that then there is too many drivers. Florida needs to fix rideshare there, sounds like you guys got left in the dark and no one is doing anything there


The problem is the 50c a mile rates, if you went back to the rates when i started at uber the money would be fine, great even, and still cheaper than a taxi.

The problem is that even when it's busy and your doing back to back pings that maxes out at maybe 3 pings an hour, or $10-12 an hour.

It's not a lack of business keeping us from hitting $20-25 an hour it's garbage rates. Right now i garuntee it's less than $10 an hour.

But then again i drive a taxi. $2.40 a mile and i can easily hit $20-30 an hour consistently even with covid.

My revenue in the taxi is multiples of the revenue i can pull with uber... as in i'm pulling in 2-3 times per hour what the uber drivers are making. Sure my expenses are probobly in the neighborhood of double but...

i'd rather pay $150 a day in expenses to gross $350-400, then use my own car to gross $100-140


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Laws can certainly raise driver pay dramatically.
> 
> Any state govt has the power to regulate pay rates and could mandate taxi pay rates for drivers.


I make more than taxi drivers here
With less risk (they have to go to areas I won't

They have to work 40 hours
Why would I ever want laws that mean I have to work more and get less



Nats121 said:


> Laws can certainly raise driver pay dramatically.
> 
> Any state govt has the power to regulate pay rates and could mandate taxi pay rates for drivers.


Taxis here are independent contractors. No hourly minimum.
If they raise the rate per mile more drivers will come out and you end up sitting empty.

The clientele of taxis here are the few remaining people who can't seem to get a bank card. They don't tip. They are where all the shooting and robberies are.
Taxi is required to go get them.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> The problem is the 50c a mile rates, if you went back to the rates when i started at uber the money would be fine, great even, and still cheaper than a taxi.
> 
> The problem is that even when it's busy and your doing back to back pings that maxes out at maybe 3 pings an hour, or $10-12 an hour.
> 
> ...


Hard to convince me. I remember the good, the bad and the ugly.
(that's pretty catchy- I may have to write a book)
As I have said over and over. Three years ago I was doing three $15 rides per hour. Morons told their friends who told their friends.
Every car became an Uber.
I went to 1 6 or 8 dollar ride per hour.

how does a higher rate per mile fix that?
Fix sitting empty waiting 1 hour to get a ride?
And every time it goes up..more drivers 
Now sitting 2 hours
3 hours 

What we need is a law that says they should just send us 600 a week for sitting at home &#128514;


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> Or have you considered YOUR market may be the abnormal market . . . abnormally busy compared to the rest of the country? You don't think the entire country functions as your market does, do you??
> 
> And Who exactly do you propose should be doing something? Uber is the one onboarding new drivers. Both companies have said they'll never have enough drivers driving for them


Yes, my market is abnormal, yours sucks because there isn't enough of a population to support Uber drivers. I can drive for over an hour and still be in a metro area. If you can't then that's the issue. Most cities are just that, a city. Here we have multiple cites next to each other sprawling over 100 miles or something, I'm not figuring an exact number but it's dense here. The only other places I know of is New York City which is a hot spot but a regulation nightmare, LA, which is a traffic nightmare and you can't make money and Chicago which you should have a tank to drive around in. Most of the rest of the US probably shouldn't have Uber but it does. This is why we have the low pay issues, people in these outside areas have no demand so there's no pay and drivers still want to drive for nothing. Stop driving in the boonies for the low pay, there is no fix there. If Prop 22 would of failed Uber would only be in the metro areas, take the hint and stop driving for peanuts, why is this so complicated? If your not making money then don't drive for rideshare, quit trying to make it work and accept failure and move on


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

wallae said:


> Taxi is required to go get them





wallae said:


> Taxis here are independent contractors.


Wait taxis are independent contractors yet taxis are required to get them?


NicFit said:


> Yes, my market is abnormal, yours sucks because there isn't enough of a population to support Uber drivers. I can drive for over an hour and still be in a metro area. If you can't then that's the issue. Most cities are just that, a city. Here we have multiple cites next to each other sprawling over 100 miles or something, I'm not figuring an exact number but it's dense here. The only other places I know of is New York City which is a hot spot but a regulation nightmare, LA, which is a traffic nightmare and you can't make money and Chicago which you should have a tank to drive around in. Most of the rest of the US probably shouldn't have Uber but it does. This is why we have the low pay issues, people in these outside areas have no demand so there's no pay and drivers still want to drive for nothing. Stop driving in the boonies for the low pay, there. If Prop 22 would of failed Uber would only be in the metro areas, take the hint and stop driving for peanuts, why is this so complicated? If your not making money then don't drive for rideshare, quit trying to make it work and accept failure and move on


So California is the only state rideshare should be in, according to you . . . and we wonder what is going wrong in our city. It definitely couldn't be all of the Californians flocking here by the thousands&#128580;


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

>>Wait taxis are independent contractors yet taxis are required to get them?

👍 yep. Split the meter with one of 2 companies. You pay gas.
No flag down business here, except Friday and Saturday night outbound from the bars.
You are required to call dispatch reporting location every time you go through a sector. If you are in a sector or pass through one you are required to take a call there. Bad areas usually have a backlog of calls waiting. Once in... you don’t get out.
Refuse a call, sit out the day, no cab tomorrow.
(To get a cab on Friday and Saturday night you have to work five days or nights during the week making 6-8 an hour.)
Make 500-600
200-300 of that comes on Fri Sat


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> Wait taxis are independent contractors yet taxis are required to get them?
> 
> So California is the only state rideshare should be in, according to you . . . and we wonder what is going wrong in our city. It definitely couldn't be all of the Californians flocking here by the thousands&#128580;


Different cities have different industries that do better then others, want a tech job? Don't go to Colorado and expect Silicon Valley pay and demand, they do have tech there but it's not going to be as easy as Silicon Valley. No Uber shouldn't be in just California but areas that can't pay more then 70c a mile they shouldn't be in. Oh, and I'm done with you, your constantly arguing and bringing up petty points, your ignored now as I feel like your a 5 year old throwing a fit because they think the world should change for them &#128405;


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

wallae said:


> I make more than taxi drivers here
> With less risk (they have to go to areas I won't
> 
> They have to work 40 hours
> ...


I used to get more doing Uber to.

Now taxi pays 452% of what uberX pays.

Heck even Ubertaxi pays 322% of UberX rates.

Yeah using a taxi to do UberTaxi pings pays over 3X as much per mile as UberX.

In fact the difference between the lowest rate I take and the highest is $2.40 -($1.71) = 69c a mile.

The difference between my lowest rate on taxi and the highest rate is more than the uberX per mile rate.

Today's "good rates" are tomarrows memories.


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> &#128517;&#128517; of course they do. They want to lock in this deal before anyone realizes how bad of a deal it really is.


Prop 22 is only a bad deal is you are a full time driver. If you're a full time yes it is a bad deal. But then again. . uber and lyft were originally offered to supplant existing income not be your only source. and if you rely on Uber or Lyft for your only source of income you need your head examined.

As it is, part time make up more than 90% of drivers. So. .the minority are trying to screw everyone for their needs


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