# Uber Plans To Kill Surge Pricing



## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

*Uber Plans To Kill Surge Pricing, Though Drivers Say It Makes Job Worth It*

https://t.co/i5sCy3tSd4/s/DPaJ

Sometimes you call an Uber, and what you thought would be an $8 ride is going to be two, three, even four times more - the result of greater demand brought on by a blizzard, or a baseball game. Whatever the reason, surge pricing is not fun.

It turns out Uber is working to fix it - or, should we say, end it. The move likely will be great for riders, but not for drivers.

Hunting For Surge

Many on-demand drivers plan their day around surge rates; Nathan Sapp is one of them. He's sitting in his garage a little after midnight, "trying not to wake up the family," he says. His wife and three kids are asleep, but he just got back home from driving for Uber.

Sapp showed NPR pay stubs for a recent three-month period. On average, he is in his car and logged into his Uber app - either driving passengers or waiting to get one - 42.4 hours per week.

Like many drivers, he's got a system in place for finding surges: He talks to fraternity and sorority members at the local Indiana University campus at Bloomington.

"I definitely keep up with the news regarding events in town," he says. "They could be business meetings, conventions. They could be specific sporting events."

Surge is Uber's solution when passenger demand outstrips driver supply: Inform customers that their ride is going to cost more - maybe way more - then pick up those who agree and accept the loss of the ones who don't.

*ALL TECH CONSIDERED*
*In The Battle Between Lyft And Uber, The Focus Is On Drivers*
Drivers want surge pricing, though the system for getting it isn't foolproof. Sapp doesn't know in advance where any one fare will take him. He recalls one time he planned his day around a big Bernie Sanders event, "but not 20 minutes prior to the start of the speech, I got a trip that took me 60 miles away."

He ended up working in a completely different, slower city that night. To be clear, though, Sapp isn't complaining. He knows unpredictable trips are part of the deal.

In the three months of stubs he provided, surge fares were about a quarter of his total take-home pay, boosting his income by nearly $700 month. That's money to fix his car, pay insurance, take the family out. A day at the museum, for example, costs $100.

"That might not be a lot of money to some people, but for us $100 is $100," Sapp says.

Uber driver David Thrasher, who works primarily in Atlanta, puts it more bluntly: "Surge is absolutely make or break. If there was no surge, ever, I wouldn't be able to afford doing this at all."

Thrasher also showed NPR months of pay stubs. When there's not much surge fare, he makes about $11 an hour. When he gets many surge rides, his weekly earnings go up to more like $16 or $17 an hour, on average.

"That's pretty good," he says.

Automate It

While drivers see surge as a key feature of the job - and Uber advertises it as such to them - inside the company surge pricing is considered a market failure, a problem to be solved.

*ALL TECH CONSIDERED*
*Uber Surge Price? Research Says Walk A Few Blocks, Wait A Few Minutes*
"That's where machine learning comes in. That's where the next generation comes in," says Jeff Schneider, engineering lead at Uber Advanced Technologies Center. "Because now we can look at all this data, and we can start to make predictions."

Schneider grants me an onstage interview at a Silicon Valley insider-conference calledStructure Data. It is a well-known fact that, in the long-term, Uber is working on self-driving cars with no need for human drivers. I'm interviewing Schneider about his short-term priorities, and killing surge rates is top of the list.

Think of it this way: When a Beyoncé concert lets out, it's a no-brainer that there's a ton of demand. Drivers know that. What's harder, Schneider explains, "is to find those Tuesday nights when it's not even raining and for some reason there's demand - and to know that's coming. That's machine learning."

With enough of the right data inputs, computer algorithms can do the research that driver Nathan Sapp already does - only better, "so the surge pricing never even has to happen," Schneider says.

Drivers would be informed of the extra demand. "And I think that's one of the really cool things that machine learning's doing for Uber right now," Schneider says.

By "right now," he means he's on it. UberEATS, the company's food delivery service, is already using machine learning to anticipate how many people will call for lunch in a given area.

Uber hasn't released an exact timeline for the end of surge, and it's not clear if the company plans to make an announcement or just phase it out so that riders (myself included) lose the unpleasant 400-percent price increase, without ticking off drivers.

Wage Fluctuations The Norm

Sapp can't say he's surprised when I break the news to him, given the company's nonstop recruitment efforts. More drivers means less surge pricing brought on by excess demand.

"I get what seems like five to 10 notices every week to invite my friends and family to drive for Uber," he says.

Uber is competitive because of price: On average, Uber rides are about two-thirds the cost of a taxicab ride, according to data compiled by Certify. And there's a culture - a norm - of changing the rates for drivers regularly. Sapp says he gets a notice every few months telling him the new rates in his area.

"There's no conversation about it," he says. "The end."

As part of a recent class action settlement, Uber plans to start letting drivers collect tips. It could be that the income lost from surge is replaced by passengers voluntarily giving a bit more.

Thrasher says it'll take more than tips - that the company will need to raise the base fare for drivers.

"If they took away surge and kept the base fare as it is, nobody could survive doing it," he says.


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## ubershiza (Jan 19, 2015)

So let me get this right,
There will be no more surges and drivers will make even more money?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> https://t.co/i5sCy3tSd4/s/DPaJ


I'm all for it.
Or cap the surges

Just raise the rates and make it profitable !

I would like to " refresh " my car every 3 years and still make a living !


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

I would like to have a nice car that can take them anywhere,safely and dependably.

And make a living.


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## JaniceCT (Aug 20, 2015)

get rid of surges and make the min fare $15 and ill be happy. also make it min $1.50 per mile


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## ubershiza (Jan 19, 2015)

ubershiza said:


> So let me get this right,
> There will be no more surges and drivers will make even more money?


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## Leftright? (Mar 11, 2016)

Ok so what didn't they take away from the drivers? (Me being NOT one)

No tips on app. Was plenty to get me to stop driving (for them)


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Uber is full of crap though about killing the surge. I am surprised that NPR posted this. Of course, publicly, Uber will say they are trying to get more drivers on the road to kill the surge, since this has probably been a public relations nightmare, but in reality they could care less about the killing off the surge. Otherwise, they would of started to at least cap the surge already, like they do typically when customers complain after a major weather event.

However, this is probably the most honest answer anybody from Uber has ever given.

"Think of it this way: When a Beyoncé concert lets out, it's a no-brainer that there's a ton of demand. Drivers know that. What's harder, Schneider explains, "is to find those Tuesday nights when it's not even raining and for some reason there's demand — and to know that's coming. That's machine learning."

My biggest nights have been these Tuesday nights this Uber spokesperson is referring to. The slowest nights are the ones with Beyonce, since drivers out supply demand greatly. 

It will be interesting to see how Uber will try and position drivers without a surge incentive.


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## MikesUber (Oct 23, 2015)

If they ever phase out or abruptly end surge without at least doubling the base fare/per mile/minute I'm flat out done driving. I'm not going to continue to drive 10 -4AM for nothing. Most everyone will stop as well, that's what caused them to raise rates in our market because "No UberX available" was rampant even in the most dense college areas. I don't think they want 1000+ people without rides at 2AM.


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## Serge Que (May 29, 2015)

So wait! We get no tips! Here in Miami its 75c a mile and now theyre fighting surges?!?! Whats next?!? " Pay Uber for the privilige of driving drunks around!" Wow this keeps getting better and better!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

http://www.cnet.com/news/uber-plans-to-drop-the-surge-charge/
Uber spokesperson denies that they are going to 'kill' surge... says they are working on minimizing it:
_"Uber is always looking for ways to better predict supply and demand in a city," said an Uber spokesperson on Tuesday. However, surge pricing will remain for now because "it's the only way to ensure that passengers can always get a ride when they need one."_​
Kudos to NPR for getting to an engineer at Uber instead of listening to the marketing people.

and to Uberpeople.net members (and Uberpeople.net) for getting NPR the info they requested.


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## Manotas (Dec 2, 2015)

Serge Que said:


> So wait! We get no tips! Here in Miami its 75c a mile and now theyre fighting surges?!?! Whats next?!? " Pay Uber for the privilige of driving drunks around!" Wow this keeps getting better and better!


But wait! There's more... Uber will eventually do away with UberX and only offer UberPool, also UberXL will become UberShuttle ... "Make more money driving more"


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## Leftright? (Mar 11, 2016)

Pfff yeah read the long term goal haha, lack of surging is the least of a drivers worries


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## NuberUber (Dec 28, 2015)

Sadly the surge aspect is one that makes Uber the innovative concept that it is. Not too many things work in an up to the minute marketplace, taking into account both supply and demand.

While Uber tries to change and find a way to attract more riders while keeping a sustainable driver base, they definitely missed the mark with this idea. The drivers for Uber are barely hanging on with the rates in some markets, and the smart ones usually drive purposely during high surge hours. There is no point in getting in rush hour traffic to be paid 12 cents a minute.

I seriously hope Uber does some more contemplation on this subject, because it could be disaster for them. Once you lose those drivers, most of them will not come back.


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## Leftright? (Mar 11, 2016)

Did anybody read the long term goal?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

NuberUber said:


> ... it could be disaster for them. Once you lose those drivers, most of them will not come back.


I do not believe that Uber cares about or wants long-term drivers. The entire business model is based on local drivers, working part-time and then moving on. That keeps new, enthused drivers coming on-board with newer cars that aren't run down yet - and eliminates the drivers who 'know better' and are less than enthused about non-surge rides at $0.xx/mi. For the future, Uber sees no need for drivers at all.


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

*Update, 8:22 a.m. PT*: _Adds comment and clarification from Uber. The ride-sharing service does not plan to stop using surge pricing, but wants to reduce the need for it using machine learning_


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## Manotas (Dec 2, 2015)

Lando74 said:


> *Update, 8:22 a.m. PT*: _Adds comment and clarification from Uber. The ride-sharing service does not plan to stop using surge pricing, but wants to reduce the need for it using machine learning_


Wow machine learning. That makes it better. Now they'll be able to predict better on how to move the pawns///drivers to keep the surges to a minimum


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

tohunt4me said:


> I'm all for it.
> Or cap the surges
> 
> Just raise the rates and make it profitable !
> ...


Uber capped the surge here in Des Moines this past weekend. Garth Brooks did two concerts Friday and Saturday each, with the late shows ending right at bar close. We also had Drake Relays and other events going on. Surge was capped at 5.2x, would've easily been double that. A normal weekend night at bar close is 7x.

Both nights surge was 5.2x for 1.5 hours straight. On one hand it sucked because it could've been higher, but on the other hand it was nice because it took the anxiety out of the situation. I didn't have to worry about missing "the big one," or cherry-pick pings. I just tried to cram as many trips as I could in the given timeframe. I'm guessing they didn't want the negative word of mouth about $300 rides to kill Saturday's demand. This may be what happens on NYE now.


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

Leftright? said:


> Did anybody read the long term goal?


What is your point? No need for human drivers. We have all heard that before.


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

That will be the tip of the iceberg for the drivers. Simple solution: Get rid of the surge and raise the rates back to their original amounts. Of course we know that won't happen. Now if the surge is eliminated, so will a lot of drivers.


"Did anybody read the long term goal?" I think I know what uber's long term is. The upper tier management will bilk as much money they can from drivers/riders/investors and let uber collapse.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Well, I'm seeing it here in RDU, rarely does the surge go past 1.5 here anymore, making a ride still 25% cheaper than a cab. Less and less surge as they send more and more obnoxious texts that the newbies actually listen to. How can you be that limited that you are willing to pick someone up outside of a concert venue for regular fare, and yet it happens. I'm wondering if they'll ever run out of new recruits to replace the burnouts.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

My area caps at 4.9 constantly. I've not seen one higher since September even when I know it should be higher


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Manotas said:


> Wow machine learning. That makes it better. Now they'll be able to predict better on how to move the pawns///drivers to keep the surges to a minimum


lol! well, yeah... that was the idea to begin with.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

This is a false report


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

Surge is there for a reason. If it's 2x surge and 100 people need a ride with only 50 drivers in the area, that 2x makes some of those riders not order an uber and instead go with lyft or cabs. Without surge what are those riders going to do? Look at an "no uberX available" screen then no one is making money and pax will just delete the uber app. 

Surge gone uber is just that much closer to being AOL or yahoo.


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## Leftright? (Mar 11, 2016)

negeorgia said:


> What is your point? No need for human drivers. We have all heard that before.


And now you heard it again


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## NuberUber (Dec 28, 2015)

BurgerTiime said:


> This is a false report


It does seem that the tactic of surge pricing is under fire in some foreign markets. Not sure if it means anything, but I do know Uber likes to standardize things across all markets to some degree (Uber symbol change, getting rid of email support, etc.)

http://m.economictimes.com/industry...cabs-than-passengers/articleshow/52017992.cms


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## UberDriver512 (Apr 28, 2016)

Uber made it very apparent their aim is driverless cars for long term. For now they are stuck with humans to drive. However the driverless cars will come with a huge price tag. Not like you or I will sublet our cars to Uber once they become self-driving. They will have to get their own cars. So I guess Uber will need to make a lot of money off of us human contactless to afford the self driving cars they plan to use in the future.

If they end the surge pricing then I think that is going to discourage many drivers from driving, when the opportunity cost changes over to having your free time back, or when you find a job that pays more. Or you're just so pissed at Uber/Lyft that you just walk off the job.

Ending surge pricing is not going to be good unless they somehow make up the cash in another way.


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## Manotas (Dec 2, 2015)

UberDriver512 said:


> Uber made it very apparent their aim is driverless cars for long term. For now they are stuck with humans to drive. However the driverless cars will come with a huge price tag. Not like you or I will sublet our cars to Uber once they become self-driving. They will have to get their own cars. So I guess Uber will need to make a lot of money off of us human contactless to afford the self driving cars they plan to use in the future.
> 
> If they end the surge pricing then I think that is going to discourage many drivers from driving, when the opportunity cost changes over to having your free time back, or when you find a job that pays more. Or you're just so pissed at Uber/Lyft that you just walk off the job.
> 
> Ending surge pricing is not going to be good unless they somehow make up the cash in another way.


I can imagine what their new BS line to the drivers will be: "No More Surge means more ride requests, more ride requests mean our partners drive more. When you drive more, you make more money." ... "To make this more convenient for the riders, we'll increase the safety/booking fee $3 more across the board, but you won't see a penny of that" (also less complains about being overcharged by Uber, in turn we have to offer less 50% refunds on surge charges while letting the drivers keep the full amount)


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

At the end of the day, Uber needs surge as much as we do.. I'm sure they'd rather earn $225 from my trips than the $95 they would have made without surge applied.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

if theres no surge, what will make a driver do late night drunk hours?
they could just do during the day if the rates are the same as drunk hours


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## NuberUber (Dec 28, 2015)

Lando74 said:


> At the end of the day, Uber needs surge as much as we do.. I'm sure they'd rather earn $225 from my trips than the $95 they would have made without surge applied.
> 
> View attachment 38482


This is what has always perplexed me about Uber dropping rates, it means they make less money. The fact is that they make up for that in volume.

I think surge just has a negative psychological effect upon pax. They would much rather wait (which screws up the system to some degree) or switch over to Lyft (which suck for Uber).

If Uber does away with surges, would it bring more riders onto the platform? Would it offset loss from surges and would it be similar to the price cuts where we work harder for the same amount of money?


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## JuanIguana (Nov 24, 2015)

negeorgia said:


> What is your point? No need for human drivers. We have all heard that before.


And what is yours?


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## dpv (Oct 12, 2015)

Let me get this straight. First Uber lowers fares and raises the "Booking Fee" of which drivers will never see. Then they raise the surge prices and start skimming more then 20% off the top. They're doing a good job trying to hide the fares that they took away from the drivers and put them in other areas. By the time I get to area with surge pricing it's already gone or in another part of town. I could careless if they end the surge pricing as long as they lower the "Booking Fee", go back to skimming 20% off the top for UberX and raise the fares back to a more sane rate.


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## Leftright? (Mar 11, 2016)

But that would be them looking out for the drivers...


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

NuberUber said:


> This is what has always perplexed me about Uber dropping rates, it means they make less money. The fact is that they make up for that in volume.
> 
> I think surge just has a negative psychological effect upon pax. They would much rather wait (which screws up the system to some degree) or switch over to Lyft (which suck for Uber).
> 
> If Uber does away with surges, would it bring more riders onto the platform? Would it offset loss from surges and would it be similar to the price cuts where we work harder for the same amount of money?


It would take a lot of volume to make up for losing surge. It might make sense if most fares were under a mile, but I had 52 trips last week with an average distance of 7.75 miles. Too long to make quick rider fees. NYC maybe, not areas with sprawling suburbs.


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

JuanIguana said:


> And what is yours?


How can we ever know Uber's actual long term goal? Does it even matter what they are? Every shift is different based upon market conditions at that moment. Some nights I get lots of pings with over 3x surge. Some nights it becomes quiet when rates hit 3x and cars pile up and wait til surge is under 2 or gone. I believe on those nights, a cap at 2x would keep the wheels turning and everybody happy.


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## JuanIguana (Nov 24, 2015)

negeorgia said:


> How can we ever know Uber's actual long term goal? Does it even matter what they are? Every shift is different based upon market conditions at that moment. Some nights I get lots of pings with over 3x surge. Some nights it becomes quiet when rates hit 3x and cars pile up and wait til surge is under 2 or gone. I believe on those nights, a cap at 2x would keep the wheels turning and everybody happy.


Oh


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

Lando74 said:


> It would take a lot of volume to make up for losing surge. It might make sense if most fares were under a mile, but I had 52 trips last week with an average distance of 7.75 miles. Too long to make quick rider fees. NYC maybe, not areas with sprawling suburbs.


Sheeeeeeeeeeeet! Without surge being used I wouldn't doubt the booking fee went up to $5.

Min fare $6, $5 booking fee, $1 minus 20-25% $0.75 rides.


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## Douglas (Apr 20, 2015)

NPR seems to be really bad source of information. If you read the article then look at the EDITOR'S NOTES, there is a link for a video with the interview they got this information about getting ride of surge pricing. 

In the interview this woman seem to be an idiot to me, but thats just my opinion...Some one who wants here 85¢ per mile ride in DC to the airport with out paying a penny more and without tipping the driver. The guy who works for uber seems to be totally out there, probably even high as a kite.

The were talking about autonomy and self-driving cars, the ability to predict where increased demand would be and be able to have enough supply to handle the demand. The were also talking about uberEATS and how to predict how many people in a certain area would be eating the food they have so they will have enough in each area when available to cover the demand.

There was about 20-30 seconds where they spoke about surge pricing and how they can use technology to predict demand kill the surges, but also referring to self-driving cars. 

There was no actual evidence that this is in the near future or even in the future at all. If uber were to use the technology to use self-driving vehicles, they would have to own them, they would have to pay insurance on them and maintain them, this cost alone would bring up the cost of what they are charging now. I certainly hope they would be charged a huge amount for the liability insurance on a vehicle that uses computer technology and puts peoples lives at risk...

Just my thoughts, I thought the interviewer was actually quite dumb in this interview, she doesn't seem to have a grasp on reality. All I have to say is, we all want something for nothing now, NPR seems to like to stir the pot.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Trebor said:


> Uber is full of crap though about killing the surge. I am surprised that NPR posted this. Of course, publicly, Uber will say they are trying to get more drivers on the road to kill the surge, since this has probably been a public relations nightmare, but in reality they could care less about the killing off the surge. Otherwise, they would of started to at least cap the surge already, like they do typically when customers complain after a major weather event.
> 
> However, this is probably the most honest answer anybody from Uber has ever given.
> 
> ...


Ha it's good to see that I'm not the only one with this reaction. Uber is making too much cash from surge to end it unless they have some kind of fool proof method to jack rates or fees enough to counteract ending it.

This is just an example of Uber trying to control the dialog and present a rider friendly image. Meanwhile they are mnaipulating the crap out of wurge pricing creating high spikes to lure drivers online and snag a couple suckers before reducing surge back to minimal levels. I was waiting for the next surge burst to come rolling through around the 2am hour on saturday night. Sure enough there it was, I knew I could wait for it to get nice and juicy because they other stealth surge drivers in my hood at that time of night are savvy enough to wait for blood. It hit 2.6x in minutes and so I dipped in and went online. A 1.7 rolled in mocking me with its puny ping, SKIP. 5 seconds later a 3.5x BINGO. that right there is evidence that ubers surge is completely rigged and its creating wild fluctuations in just seconds sorta like the stock market! Whatever, I needed that rate to make the risk of driving drunks at 2am worth it. I almost felt bad for the poor pax when I saw the destination was 13 miles away... SCORE that $50 just made a tough grind worth it.

Uber has taken the low rate route to securing it's dominance, was that really necessary, I doubt it, but when they did that they severely hamstrung their ability to be profitable unless they screw drivers and surge-fix prices


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would Uber want to get rid of it? Does it not make money for them?

Supply and demand is exactly what it is and there is no way they can keep drivers driving in the areas where they are needed without surge. It may seem unfair to the riders but not as bad as being without a ride. 

What would help everyone is giving drivers freedom to drive in different areas. That will automatically increase the supply of drivers and being drivers aren't stupid they will go where they are needed. Then they could cap the surges at 2x or 3x and plenty of drivers will be willing to deadhead a little bit to work for that, or remain in an area when they are brought there by a fare.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Manotas said:


> Wow machine learning. That makes it better. Now they'll be able to predict better on how to move the pawns///drivers to keep the surges to a minimum


yes they know exactly when to convince the schleps to stay online for guarantees.

The only way to make demand pricing fair, is to use the historical data to create increased pricing based on predictors like day of week, time of day, weather forecasts, holidays.... It's very predictable that demand goes up at rush hours so it would be fair to just increase prices across the board for those times of day. It's the only way you can fairly balance the costs of increased demand to the entire market rather than just demanding a few unlucky pax get stuck holding the check for everyone elses party.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Douglas said:


> NPR seems to be really bad source of information. If you read the article then look at the EDITOR'S NOTES, there is a link for a video with the interview they got this information about getting ride of surge pricing.
> 
> In the interview this woman seem to be an idiot to me, but thats just my opinion...Some one who wants here 85¢ per mile ride in DC to the airport with out paying a penny more and without tipping the driver. The guy who works for uber seems to be totally out there, probably even high as a kite.
> 
> ...


YOur right, and this has been my argument for quite some time. It's a lot cheaper for uber to not have to maintain a fleet of vehicles. And lets be for real people, robot cars will not be ready for this kind of commercial use for a very long time. It's a lot of hype created to dehumanize the drivers even more and rationalize not tipping or the low rates becasue we are just doing low end work that could be easily automated my a drone. good luck making a computer drive the dilapidated roadways of AMerica quickly and efficiently.


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## UberPasco (Oct 18, 2015)

Lando74 said:


> Uber capped the surge here in Des Moines this past weekend. Garth Brooks did two concerts Friday and Saturday each, with the late shows ending right at bar close. We also had Drake Relays and other events going on. Surge was capped at 5.2x, would've easily been double that. A normal weekend night at bar close is 7x.
> 
> Both nights surge was 5.2x for 1.5 hours straight. On one hand it sucked because it could've been higher, but on the other hand it was nice because it took the anxiety out of the situation. I didn't have to worry about missing "the big one," or cherry-pick pings. I just tried to cram as many trips as I could in the given timeframe. I'm guessing they didn't want the negative word of mouth about $300 rides to kill Saturday's demand. This may be what happens on NYE now.


Surge was capped here last for last Fri Beyonce concert. 4.9X for over an hr. Should have been in the 8's......
First time I had witnessed this in this area. In the past when I have heard others complain "They capped it at 2.5X", I have had much higher surges during the supposed cap.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

NuberUber said:


> This is what has always perplexed me about Uber dropping rates, it means they make less money. The fact is that they make up for that in volume.
> 
> I think surge just has a negative psychological effect upon pax. They would much rather wait (which screws up the system to some degree) or switch over to Lyft (which suck for Uber).
> 
> If Uber does away with surges, would it bring more riders onto the platform? Would it offset loss from surges and would it be similar to the price cuts where we work harder for the same amount of money?


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

DriverX said:


>


LOL!!!!!!!!!!


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Sad part is there will STILL be plenty of people running their cars into the ground even without surge.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

ever since the start of Uber, the engine that has kept it all going is venture capital money pouring in from all over the place

once there is no more new funding and the existing cash piles dwindle, then things start to get real

this whole Uber product is still not real

the billion-dollar cash piles of venture capital still exist, but they're down to what levels ?

is this move to curtail surge pricing a desperate attempt to gain ridership ?

is Uber ready to boost booking fees again? 100% of booking fees go to the Uber Corporation . . maybe Uber can make a killing in the booking fees business

the Uber way is to keep dramatically changing everything

Uber has zero experience in this field and it's quite obvious they're scrambling to try to find their way


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

this is no b.s.

here is a 46-second clip of a serious discussion about surge pricing

finishes with...
"so the surge pricing never even has to happen"


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

https://vimeo.com/album/3867562/video/159939786

here is a link to the full 18-minute video of a public conversation with Jeff Schneider, a leading technologist at the Uber Advanced Technology Center. In it, Schneider says surge pricing is a market failure and a problem his team is working to solve.


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## Cvi (Jul 25, 2015)

Leftright? said:


> Pfff yeah read the long term goal haha, lack of surging is the least of a drivers worries


Self-driving cars, to the point that they are going to replace human livery drivers, is a fairy tale. I wouldn't be concerned about it.


----------



## yoyodyne (Oct 17, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> It turns out Uber is working to fix it - or, should we say, end it.


Already ended in Phoenix by way off 100's of recruited drivers camping out in areas that used to surge.


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> this is no b.s.
> 
> here is a 46-second clip of a serious discussion about surge pricing
> 
> ...


Does anyone actually believe that silver tongued devil? He'll lose his job if he kills surge. Like I said previously they'll just use their predictor data to have higher rates across the board during times of anticipated high demand. Regardless it doesn't bode well for drivers. I seriously doubt their higher rate will be 2x.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Ok so here's the bottom line.

Right now he has an anti-trust lawsuit against him that states you can't have it both ways. Either 1) you reclassify your drivers as employees and keep surge or 2) you get rid of "anti-competitive" surge pricing.

Those are his two options so obviously he is going to get rid of surge pricing. However, because so many people rely on surge to make a living in those markets where the rates are so low he will be forced to raise the rates.

That's what it comes down to, in theory. However, as we have known from Uber, you never know what the people running the show are going to do, because as we have seen many times before, they clearly aren't interested in making a profit, just lasting until that next round of funding.


----------



## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> https://vimeo.com/album/3867562/video/159939786
> 
> here is a link to the full 18-minute video of a public conversation with Jeff Schneider, a leading technologist at the Uber Advanced Technology Center. In it, Schneider says surge pricing is a market failure and a problem his team is working to solve.


this videotaped conversation is quite revealing. they both keep talking about surge pricing as an evil bad awful thing. "Nobody likes surge pricing" further proof that Uber totally ignores the driver's needs and puts their entire focus on pleasing the needs of the riding passenger


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

I've had passengers who do like it since it means they can get a ride when taxis are backed up for hours and they know it would be impossible to get anew uber at all. Some even complained about the rate cap during the snow


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## ubershiza (Jan 19, 2015)

DriverX said:


>


It's obvious uber drivers that are still working for cucumbers aren't that smart.


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## Douglas (Apr 20, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> this is no b.s.
> 
> here is a 46-second clip of a serious discussion about surge pricing
> 
> ...


Watch the entire video, it was about self-driving cars...but the woman interviewing has no clue, because she could have ask him, what do you do know to tell drivers where to be? The answer is, they already tell us where to be, they advise to use where and when it will be busy as predicted by the computers...but she was more interested in reading pre-written questions on her cell phone than an actual interview. 
The video was referring to how the self-driving cars will be able to be where they predict will be busy.

You can take a small clip of any interview and completely change the actual atmosphere...but this guy that was talking seems like a moron to me anyway.


----------



## vesolehome (Aug 2, 2015)

That'll last about a week. Once there's not enough drivers they'll have to surge


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## backstreets-trans (Aug 16, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> https://vimeo.com/album/3867562/video/159939786
> 
> here is a link to the full 18-minute video of a public conversation with Jeff Schneider, a leading technologist at the Uber Advanced Technology Center. In it, Schneider says surge pricing is a market failure and a problem his team is working to solve.


This guy is suppose to be a data guru but he can't figure out how impossible it is for drivers to make money. With all their data they know how much it costs to operate a vehicle but still try to screw drivers with rate cuts. He is so two faced in this interview.


----------



## I have nuts (Mar 29, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I do not believe that Uber cares about or wants long-term drivers. The entire business model is based on local drivers, working part-time and then moving on. That keeps new, enthused drivers coming on-board with newer cars that aren't run down yet - and eliminates the drivers who 'know better' and are less than enthused about non-surge rides at $0.xx/mi. For the future, Uber sees no need for drivers at all.


Every uber driver should be made to read this before signing on.


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## Marlan P. (Oct 8, 2015)

JaniceCT said:


> get rid of surges and make the min fare $15 and ill be happy. also make it min $1.50 per mile


 $2 a mile 30 a min. Cheaper then taxis and still way more reliable.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

riChElwAy said:


> ever since the start of Uber, the engine that has kept it all going is venture capital money pouring in from all over the place
> 
> once there is no more new funding and the existing cash piles dwindle, then things start to get real
> 
> ...


"Down to what levels?"

And the employee/contractor lawsuits and increased regulations are just beginning.

Uber better hurry up.


----------



## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

Douglas said:


> Watch the entire video, it was about self-driving cars...but the woman interviewing has no clue, because she could have ask him, what do you do know to tell drivers where to be? The answer is, they already tell us where to be, they advise to use where and when it will be busy as predicted by the computers...but she was more interested in reading pre-written questions on her cell phone than an actual interview.
> The video was referring to how the self-driving cars will be able to be where they predict will be busy.
> 
> You can take a small clip of any interview and completely change the actual atmosphere...but this guy that was talking seems like a moron to me anyway.


in this video there were two main discussions, not just one .. surge pricing and then driverless cars


----------



## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

backstreets-trans said:


> This guy is suppose to be a data guru but he can't figure out how impossible it is for drivers to make money. With all their data they know how much it costs to operate a vehicle but still try to screw drivers with rate cuts. He is so two faced in this interview.


<<This guy is suppose to be a data guru but he can't figure out how impossible it is for drivers to make money.>>

i think he has proven that he is a data guru! because he has figured out that drivers will continue to drive and drive even if it makes them bankrupt


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## SurgeMachine (Mar 15, 2016)

riChElwAy said:


> *Uber Plans To Kill Surge Pricing, Though Drivers Say It Makes Job Worth It*
> 
> https://t.co/i5sCy3tSd4/s/DPaJ
> 
> ...


This article from NPR was quickly debunked and reported to be wrong and inaccurate. Uber does NOT intend to remove surge pricing anytime soon. Not until self driving cars that is! As seen in follow up articles posted today:

*"According to Uber, its engineering lead Jeff Schneider told NPR the surge works on a machine learning algorithm to predict areas more prone to driver demand and should get better over time, not that surge was ending."*

1) CBS News: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/03/uber-disputes-report-claiming-surge-pricing-will-end/

2) Tech Crunch:
http://techcrunch.com/2016/05/03/uber-denies-plans-to-kill-surge-pricing-in-us/

3) SFist:
http://sfist.com/2016/05/03/uber_surge_pricing_ending_or_maybe_not.php


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

Machine learning..


----------



## Uber-Doober (Dec 16, 2014)

JaniceCT said:


> get rid of surges and make the min fare $15 and ill be happy. also make it min $1.50 per mile


^^^
Or $2.00 per mile and they would still be killing the cabs.


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## SD_Expedition (Dec 10, 2015)

Go home Uber, you're drunk.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Lando74 said:


> Machine learning..
> 
> View attachment 38552


HAHA no doubt.

Machine learning = Uber manipulating


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Lando74 said:


> Machine learning..
> 
> View attachment 38552


Always say yes to these so they don't offer surge killing guarantees.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Well then, Travis good luck with that anti-competitive lawsuit, you've got some settling to do.


----------



## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

As with other "tests", this one will likely be run in certain test markets before being rolled out nationally and internationally, if it works. We're probably looking at a 2017 decision?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Dontmakemepullauonyou said:


> Surge is there for a reason. If it's 2x surge and 100 people need a ride with only 50 drivers in the area, that 2x makes some of those riders not order an uber and instead go with lyft or cabs. Without surge what are those riders going to do? Look at an "no uberX available" screen then no one is making money and pax will just delete the uber app.
> 
> Surge gone uber is just that much closer to being AOL or yahoo.


I think we're all misinterpreting the 'news'... when Uber the Uber chief engineer says that Uber is trying to 'kill surge pricing' - I suspect he does not mean they are going to eliminate the policy - but are working towards better and better systems to get drivers on the road when and where they are needed - and by doing so, eliminating the conditions under which a surge is triggered.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I think we're all misinterpreting the 'news'... when Uber the Uber chief engineer says that Uber is trying to 'kill surge pricing' - I suspect he does not mean they are going to eliminate the policy - but are working towards better and better systems to get drivers on the road when and where they are needed - and by doing so, eliminating the conditions under which a surge is triggered.


If that's the case, then Uber and Lyft should work the other end of the money equation. Instead of charging passengers more money, they should increase the driver's percentage to be 85 to 100% of the fare...depending on demand/supply. You want more drivers to stop watching a TV show, or get up from the dinner table, or wake up earlier? Increase pay when demand surges.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

AllenChicago said:


> If that's the case, then Uber and Lyft should work the other end of the money equation. Instead of charging passengers more money, they should increase the driver's percentage to be 85 to 100% of the fare...depending on demand/supply. You want more drivers to stop watching a TV show, or get up from the dinner table, or wake up earlier? Increase pay when demand surges.


I love this.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

AllenChicago said:


> If that's the case, then Uber and Lyft should work the other end of the money equation. Instead of charging passengers more money, they should increase the driver's percentage to be 85 to 100% of the fare...depending on demand/supply. You want more drivers to stop watching a TV show, or get up from the dinner table, or wake up earlier? Increase pay when demand surges.


I love this, but it's way too smart for Uber to implement.


----------



## Gilbert_Aus (Apr 10, 2016)

MikesUber said:


> If they ever phase out or abruptly end surge without at least doubling the base fare/per mile/minute I'm flat out done driving. I'm not going to continue to drive 10 -4AM for nothing. Most everyone will stop as well, that's what caused them to raise rates in our market because "No UberX available" was rampant even in the most dense college areas. I don't think they want 1000+ people without rides at 2AM.


Me too. Unless they replace surge with base reasonable rates (double what they are now) then I am done driving for Uber. Bad enough as it is.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

If it's confirmed that they aren't killing surge pricing, can someone please edit the thread title so people don't automatically think they are.


----------



## HoldenDriver (Jan 18, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> If it's confirmed that they aren't killing surge pricing, can someone please edit the thread title so people don't automatically think they are.


Not so fast. The last update clearly says what Uber is saying publicly, and what they're doing internally, are not one and the same.

Publicly - the company says it isn't ending surge pricing.
Internally - the company admitted it's working to end surge pricing.

Welcome to Uber!

NPR got an engineer to commit the worst crime in Silicon Valley - speaking the truth on record.


----------



## Forest Bickle (May 3, 2016)

Just jack up the multiplyer on the drop, lower but don't eliminate the factor on the mileage. The best thing about surge pricing is that it gets drivers to go into congested screwed up traffic where nobody is making money, especially at the negligible wait time (this is assuming the Uber algorithm attempts to reproduce the 'switchover' from the meter mechanism).

Just as a side note, the wait time is the only mechanism that equates to a straight wage. Those are minutes of your life, think about it.

As it is I'm not certain the Uber algorithm attempts to function the same as the traditional meter, I am using that as an example. I suspect the time stacks somehow with the distance rate. Can anyone point me in the direction of any publications on this?


----------



## JHawk (Oct 27, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> https://vimeo.com/album/3867562/video/159939786
> 
> Schneider says surge pricing is a market failure and a problem his team is working to solve.





HoldenDriver said:


> Not so fast. The last update clearly says what Uber is saying publicly, and what they're doing internally, are not one and the same.
> 
> Publicly - the company says it isn't ending surge pricing.
> Internally - the company admitted it's working to end surge pricing.
> ...


Amazing that Schneider calls surge a "market failure," yet in the early days of Uber their surge pricing model/algorithm was supposed to be their mind-blowing-bat-shit-crazy-change-the-world-where's-my-nobel-prize-for-economics "innovation"


----------



## backstreets-trans (Aug 16, 2015)

HoldenDriver said:


> Not so fast. The last update clearly says what Uber is saying publicly, and what they're doing internally, are not one and the same.
> 
> Publicly - the company says it isn't ending surge pricing.
> Internally - the company admitted it's working to end surge pricing.
> ...


You nailed it. Uber doesn't care about the passengers or drivers. They're lying to both sides. Trying to keep their unicorn status on wall Street so they can bilk another billion or two from investors.

My worst concern is that they're succeeding. They manage to pay off city regulators to get special treatment. Then they throw money at every lawsuit and it disappears. They are hiring lobbyists and bribing media. Will it ever end?


----------



## Novus Caesar (Dec 15, 2015)

If Uber killed surge, I would quit. The only money I make where I am is through surge. Otherwise, it is usually $3 rides before taxes and expenses!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> I love this


copying MY opinions and posting them as your own - while complaining about MY opinions?
Genius! (not!) - what a fraud.


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## Russ Reed (Mar 30, 2016)

negeorgia said:


> What is your point? No need for human drivers. We have all heard that before.


You tell a non-human to drive on I-10 a 6:30am to 10:00am in downtown LA


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Our surges have been capped at 4.9 since Jan 2.

How do they intend to encourage more drivers to come out without surge?


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## goon70056 (Apr 21, 2016)

riChElwAy said:


> Thrasher says it'll take more than tips - that the company will need to raise the base fare for drivers.
> 
> "If they took away surge and kept the base fare as it is, nobody could survive doing it," he says.


Base fares should be raised anyhow, given that the price of fuel is going up again.


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## UberBlackPr1nce (Dec 28, 2014)

People will still drive surge or no surge. 
It's a guarantee!!!


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## MikesUber (Oct 23, 2015)

Lando74 said:


> Both nights surge was 5.2x for 1.5 hours straight


 That's really good lol equivalent to a 3.2x here ($3.36/mi versus your $3.38 on a 5.2x). Hope you made bank during that time. That'd be incredible to see that surge last for that long.



Lando74 said:


> I just tried to cram as many trips as I could in the given timeframe. I'm guessing they didn't want the negative word of mouth about $300 rides to kill Saturday's demand. This may be what happens on NYE now.


 Perfect strategy, that's like me during a Steelers game which will surge for 60-90 minutes. We've been capped at 4.9x since I started last October. NYE cap was lifted and we saw 6.8x ($8.16/mi at the time). I do think a reasonable cap is okay, no passenger thinks exorbitant fares are.. well, fair.


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## MikesUber (Oct 23, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> if theres no surge, what will make a driver do late night drunk hours?


Doubling (or more) the standard rate per mile and per minute. Otherwise drivers like me that only drive at night will be off the platform. Zero benefit to Uber, increased problems for pax. We all need surge pricing.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Ubers trying to get to that sweet point where the everyday man / woman goes, what did I do before uber? I can't believe I did that! I can't imagine my daily life without uber now.

Not there yet. I can still go back to ride sharing with friends, taking public transport and the occasional taxi. Yes i said it. I taxi.

Haven't uber'd in weeks...


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

goon70056 said:


> Base fares should be raised anyhow, given that the price of fuel is going up again.


OK - so if the gas has gone up 60 cents, the average vehicle cost per mile has increased by a whopping 3.25 cents. So, yeah - go fight Uber for that 3.25 cents.

THEY DON'T CARE.


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## Novus Caesar (Dec 15, 2015)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Ubers trying to get to that sweet point where the everyday man / woman goes, what did I do before uber? I can't believe I did that! I can't imagine my daily life without uber now.
> 
> Not there yet. I can still go back to ride sharing with friends, taking public transport and the occasional taxi. Yes i said it. I taxi.
> 
> Haven't uber'd in weeks...


Taxis are rip-offs.


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

DriverX said:


> Always say yes to these so they don't offer surge killing guarantees.


Definitely. The guarantees are crap anyway and it just floods the market with drivers looking for easy money. It's actually harder to get guarantee payments than it is to totally blow them out:


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

The poorer Uber drivers are, the more they probably depend on Uber

http://qz.com/674351/the-poorer-uber-drivers-are-the-more-they-probably-depend-on-uber/


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## sarasota ron (Apr 15, 2016)

Ask yourself, why would Uber get rid of surge pricing. They like to make money, the more the better. You think the airlines will charge the same price for a ticket on Thanksgiving this year? Will a room in Louisville during Derby Week next year cost $79? Of course not. Some company goof talking out his ass. 
Also, do some research on driverless cars. They are not expected more than 7% of the cars on the road by 2030. And they will cost at least 100,o00 dollars per car and probably even more by then. Hardly a cost effective system for a transport company.


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## LuisEnrikee (Mar 31, 2016)

Uber should praise those that actually take advatage of the surge . That bring more money to them . Us (new drivers) should be just extra income until we leave uber because of the cheap ass rates .


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## Mountainsoloist (Nov 16, 2015)

AllenChicago said:


> If that's the case, then Uber and Lyft should work the other end of the money equation. Instead of charging passengers more money, they should increase the driver's percentage to be 85 to 100% of the fare...depending on demand/supply. You want more drivers to stop watching a TV show, or get up from the dinner table, or wake up earlier? Increase pay when demand surges.


Eventually I think they will combine surge with peak driving times. Much like their hourly guarantees, the rate will adjust for demand like surge is supposed to do. The main difference will be that the peak rate will be based on forecasted demand rather than live algorithms applied directly to the market like surge. That is the kind of data they are working to collect and process currently.


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## Gilbert_Aus (Apr 10, 2016)

Mountainsoloist said:


> Eventually I think they will combine surge with peak driving times. Much like their hourly guarantees, the rate will adjust for demand like surge is supposed to do. The main difference will be that the peak rate will be based on forecasted demand rather than live algorithms applied directly to the market like surge. That is the kind of data they are working to collect and process currently.


That still doesn't solve their issue of drivers not wanting to drive 5 miles for a pickup that might only be a 1 mile trip. Uber need to act like real partners and allow drivers to see the destination


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Gilbert_Aus said:


> That still doesn't solve their issue of drivers not wanting to drive 5 miles for a pickup that might only be a 1 mile trip. Uber need to act like real partners and allow drivers to see the destination


They don't even need to go that far. They need to add a slider to the driver app where we can choose exactly how far we'll go for a pickup. It's that simple. Then, we can "independently" choose how far we want to go. The problem is that Uber wants to call us independent contractors without actually treating us like them.

What's stopping Uber from giving us 50 mile ranges ? Nothing. Nothing short of a union contract or a law.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Novus Caesar said:


> Taxis are rip-offs.


How so?

It's interesting that people were angry with taxis because they had a higher price and "rip" you off.

Uber came in to undercut those prices but they did so by cutting down on stuff like ohhhhh I don't know, the medallion fees taxi drivers pay monthly? Instead they charge you a 25% cut of whatever you rake in + a SRF to off set their costs to make sure the passenger is safe (the so called background check?).

Even at the "McDonald's" pricing (compared to what taxis charge...taxi drivers don't retire millionaires btw, not even close) people aren't using uber as much as uber would like to keep the cheap-o model afloat. (Think, enough demand so you can order in bulk and therefore cut costs to produce the goods as well as transporting the goods-> you're more likely to get a sweet deal if you send by the container instead of mere pallets).

So yeah. You're complaining about uber being too cheap yet taxis are a rip off.

You can sometimes have your cake and eat it too. Not in this case.


----------



## Mountainsoloist (Nov 16, 2015)

Gilbert_Aus said:


> That still doesn't solve their issue of drivers not wanting to drive 5 miles for a pickup that might only be a 1 mile trip. Uber need to act like real partners and allow drivers to see the destination


Not directly, but if the rates are high enough at the time the drivers won't filter pickup locations as hard as we do at today's bargain basement prices. When I first started driving I accepted nearly all pings. They probably won't show destinations until the employee/contractor lawsuit returns, however. That is one of the features I want to see the most if we are considered contractors.



uberdriverfornow said:


> They don't even need to go that far. They need to add a slider to the driver app where we can choose exactly how far we'll go for a pickup. It's that simple. Then, we can "independently" choose how far we want to go. The problem is that Uber wants to call us independent contractors without actually treating us like them.


This is another option they should add if they are going to go with the contractor model. Unfortunately, you are correct and Uber is not looking to build a marketplace for ridesharing. Instead, they are working to create a taxi company which doesn't pay its employees by mis-classifying them as independant contractors.

What a mess.


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## jdjd (Jan 19, 2016)

riChElwAy said:


> this is no b.s.
> here is a 46-second clip of a serious discussion about surge pricing
> 
> finishes with...
> "so the surge pricing never even has to happen"


The "machine learning" (algorithm) is how they came up with the Platinum, Gold, Silver incentives in combination with $35/hr guarantee in certain time slots in LA market. They are figuring out ways to Not raise the rate for ALL drivers (which is one way to fix the "surge" problem), but instead, just raise the rate for some drivers to fill the demand.

I recently watched a documentary about "Algorithm". If you are a geek like me and have Netflix, check out "The Secret Rules of Modern Living: Alorithms" on Netflix www.netflix.com/title/80095881?source=android

Here is a Youtube link: "The Secret Rules of Modern Living Algorithms"


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

Clickbait article. Schneider wasn't saying that Surge is going away. He was stating that their predictive algorithms will encourage more drivers on the road during certain peak demand periods and minimize the chance/severity of surge. /sigh


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## leroy jenkins (May 27, 2015)

to Uber HQ and idiots "gross revenue" = "earned"


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## Uberchampion (Oct 17, 2015)

Lando74 said:


> *Update, 8:22 a.m. PT*: _Adds comment and clarification from Uber. The ride-sharing service does not plan to stop using surge pricing, but wants to reduce the need for it using machine learning_


I have a theory that Uber will announce tipping through the app at the same time they phase out/cap surges.

I also think the Fubers will start charging drivers a processing fee for the tips they get.

You didn't really think they will pay off their lawsuits with their own money did you?☺


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> I'm all for it.
> Or cap the surges
> 
> Just raise the rates and make it profitable !
> ...


Just raise the rates back to 2014 rates ... when X was just barely lower than cabs ... and uber was only taking 10%. Then, and only then, could drivers "make it" if surge went away.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

NuberUber said:


> Sadly the surge aspect is one that makes Uber the innovative concept that it is. Not too many things work in an up to the minute marketplace, taking into account both supply and demand.
> 
> While Uber tries to change and find a way to attract more riders while keeping a sustainable driver base, they definitely missed the mark with this idea. The drivers for Uber are barely hanging on with the rates in some markets, and the smart ones usually drive purposely during high surge hours. There is no point in getting in rush hour traffic to be paid 12 cents a minute.
> 
> I seriously hope Uber does some more contemplation on this subject, because it could be disaster for them. Once you lose those drivers, most of them will not come back.


I blame the cabbies


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

JimS said:


> Our surges have been capped at 4.9 since Jan 2.
> How do they intend to encourage more drivers to come out without surge?


On the flip side ... uber did have 8.8/8.9X surges in Houston 2 weeks ago during a natural disaster. In the end ... it's all about "what's best for Uber" ... not the pax, city or drivers ... only thing that matters to Uber is Uber.


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## Bnerdy (Jul 11, 2015)

I just think it's crazy that people wouldn't want to tip us because "it's the culture of the company and how it's been since the beginning" and even suggest that if we quit if we don't like it, but have an issue with surges that is just as much a part of the culture as not giving tips. We do need to make money here. We aren't doing this for charity


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

Surge pricing is Uber's way of taking 20% or more of 'tips'. Customers that are willing to pay surge, they are the one's that help me with a 'livable wage'.


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## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

Douglas said:


> There was no actual evidence that this is in the near future or even in the future at all. If uber were to use the technology to use self-driving vehicles, they would have to own them, they would have to pay insurance on them and maintain them, this cost alone would bring up the cost of what they are charging now. I certainly hope they would be charged a huge amount for the liability insurance on a vehicle that uses computer technology and puts peoples lives at risk...


Thank you Doug!!!! You are one of the few who see the initial problem of driverless cars as being expensive and high risk. BUT....If I know Uber, they will then reverse their pricing strategy because they will need to generate much more revenue per ride and since they get to keep that revenue, they will have no problem raising prices accordingly There is a model for this that is being test marketed here called Blue Indy ( https://www.blue-indy.com/)Electric cars for hire at charging stations around town. Those are driven by the customers and prices are pretty hefty.....combine that with driverless technology and you have a pretty expensive proposition. Now, 20 years from now it will be a different story...but in the near future it ain't gonna happen.


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## notabadguythe (Feb 6, 2016)

I got an idea, why not flat fare of 3.00 couple blocks, pay us 0.05, and this would increase rideshare and make us more money during this real slump now that the colleges are letting out.


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

notabadguythe said:


> I got an idea, why not flat fare of 3.00 couple blocks, pay us 0.05, and this would increase rideshare and make us more money during this real slump now that the colleges are letting out.


I like it, cuz some money is better than no money, right?


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## notabadguythe (Feb 6, 2016)

It is where uber is heading, lol


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

I think they should drop the booking fee. Lower fees mean more customers, and more customers mean more money, right?


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## Manotas (Dec 2, 2015)

JimS said:


> I think they should drop the booking fee. Lower fees mean more customers, and more customers mean more money, right?


That's their money maker. Normally they raise the booking fee, they increase the percentage they take from the driver, and they lower the mileage rate. They make more $$$, drivers make less $$$ so we have to drive more to make make up for loss of revenue


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Manotas said:


> That's their money maker. Normally they raise the booking fee, they increase the percentage they take from the driver, and they lower the mileage rate. They make more $$$, drivers make less $$$ so we have to drive more to make make up for loss of revenue


Yes, I know. Sarcasm is hard to post.


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