# Commercial Insurance



## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

Does anyone here have commercial insurance or had it?

Before rideshare era, limos and other vehicles for hire to transport passengers had to carry a commercial vehicle insurance and I'm sure they still do if they operate outside the rideshare coverage.

Your feedback such as cost and qualifications are greatly appreciated.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I purchased commercial insurance because I wanted to do rides away from uber and lyft

My cost is $5400/ year for liability only


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

I got business class for food delivery instead of straight commercial. I think it adds $15/month, $10 with my previous car, and I can use it for business 6 nights a month which is fine for a part timer like me.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

I had Geico rideshare policy. $160/month for full coverage.


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

Thank you for sharing. It's smart to have that coverage. Some of my UL pax ask me if they could hire me outside the app and my answer is always "sorry I can't" and obviously it's due to lack insurance coverage.



Pax Collector said:


> I had Geico rideshare policy. $160/month for full coverage.


I do have rideshare gap. I was looking more for independent (from UL rideshare coverage) commercial



oldfart said:


> I purchased commercial insurance because I wanted to do rides away from uber and lyft
> 
> My cost is $5400/ year for liability only


That's about right. A friend in LA pays close to $2400 for six month but his 6 years old black SUV is covered as well.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

Tom Oldman said:


> I do have rideshare gap. I was looking more for independent (from UL rideshare coverage) commercial


You can get a full on commercial policy, but I believe it would cost a lot more than a hybrid one.


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

Pax Collector said:


> You can get a full on commercial policy, but I believe it would cost a lot more than a hybrid one.


Correct, as other members mentioned, it can cost $400-$500 per month.


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

Tom Oldman said:


> Thank you for sharing. It's smart to have that coverage. Some of my UL pax ask me if they could hire me outside the app and my answer is always "sorry I can't" and obviously it's due to lack insurance coverage.
> 
> 
> I do have rideshare gap. I was looking more for independent (from UL rideshare coverage) commercial
> ...


To transport passengers for hire requires more than just a standard commercial insurance policy. You must also have a passenger endorsement as well as appropriate authority. (Most commercial vehicle insurance policies exclude certain cargos as well as transporting passengers for hire unless you have a specific endorsement for them.)

It may also require business licenses and if picking up from some venues such as airports, a specific venue authority license.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

I had commercial coverage for like $160~ something a month. My insurance wanted $230/month or so the next cycle so I got different coverage.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

BigJohn said:


> To transport passengers for hire requires more than just a standard commercial insurance policy. You must also have a passenger endorsemen


California doesn't require you to have a passenger endorsement if you're transporting less than 10 passengers including yourself. My insurance policy didn't require me to have any endorsements.


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

BigJohn said:


> To transport passengers for hire requires more than just a standard commercial insurance policy. You must also have a passenger endorsement as well as appropriate authority. (Most commercial vehicle insurance policies exclude certain cargos as well as transporting passengers for hire unless you have a specific endorsement for them.)
> 
> It may also require business licenses and if picking up from some venues such as airports, a specific venue authority license.


Thank you so much for taking the time sharing detailed information which is exactly what I was looking for.

As mentioned before, some pax ask for cash rides and I know it's great liability and responsibility as you described it.



Pax Collector said:


> California doesn't require you to have a passenger endorsement if you're transporting less than 10 passengers including yourself. My insurance policy didn't require me to have any endorsements.


That makes it easier but still costly. Thank you for "passenger endorsement" info. I would not take more than 4-5 pax.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

BigJohn said:


> To transport passengers for hire requires more than just a standard commercial insurance policy. You must also have a passenger endorsement as well as appropriate authority. (Most commercial vehicle insurance policies exclude certain cargos as well as transporting passengers for hire unless you have a specific endorsement for them.)
> 
> It may also require business licenses and if picking up from some venues such as airports, a specific venue authority license.


The policy I bought was to meet the requirements for the local "vehicle for hire" permit and for a second permit to service the airport. It is the same permit that taxi drivers and limo drivers get. So I can haul passengers, what I can't do is accept ride hails; pre scheduled rides only


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

oldfart said:


> The policy I bought was to meet the requirements for the local "vehicle for hire" permit and for a second permit to service the airport. It is the same permit that taxi drivers and limo drivers get. So I can haul passengers, what I can't do is accept ride hails; pre scheduled rides only


That makes sense. Thank you for clarification.


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

Pax Collector said:


> California doesn't require you to have a passenger endorsement if you're transporting less than 10 passengers including yourself. My insurance policy didn't require me to have any endorsements.


Then why does Progressive, in California, have available endorsements for both Taxi and Limo/Black? Oh wait, you did not state FOR HIRE. THAT is a big difference.

Yes, you can drive a vehicle under normal commercial auto insurance policy with 8 passengers but NOT FOR HIRE.


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

BigJohn said:


> Then why does Progressive, in California, have available endorsements for both Taxi and Limo/Black? Oh wait, you did not state FOR HIRE. THAT is a big difference.
> 
> Yes, you can drive a vehicle under normal commercial auto insurance policy with 8 passengers but NOT FOR HIRE.


So, now I'm a bit confused :frown:
I'm sorry but I have a hard time to understand; Isn't "For Hire" same as charging pax for a ride?

So, this is what I got so far from the responses; in California you may operate with a commercial insurance if;
*You have 8 passengers or less
*Passenger/s pay a certain amount for a certain trip, probably with prior reservation!?
*You are not allowed to take street hails.
Please correct me if I'm misinformed. Thanks.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

BigJohn said:


> Then why does Progressive, in California, have available endorsements for both Taxi and Limo/Black? Oh wait, you did not state FOR HIRE. THAT is a big difference.
> 
> Yes, you can drive a vehicle under normal commercial auto insurance policy with 8 passengers but NOT FOR HIRE.


Progressive can make up their own rules. Any hybrid or commercial insurance will cover all those activities as long as you're on the same page with your insurer.


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

Tom Oldman said:


> So, now I'm a bit confused :frown:
> I'm sorry but I have a hard time to understand; Isn't "For Hire" same as charging pax for a ride?


Insurance is confusing, after all the policies are written by lawyers. 

In general terms, any time you transport a passenger for some sort of compensation, that is considered "For Hire". My understanding is that is the legal term used by the insurance industry.



Tom Oldman said:


> So, this is what I got so far from the responses; in California you may operate with a commercial insurance if;
> *You have 8 passengers or less
> *Passenger/s pay a certain amount for a certain trip, probably with prior reservation!?
> *You are not allowed to take street hails.
> Please correct me if I'm misinformed. Thanks.


Insurance is confusing and complex. Here is my understanding of insurance in California for passengers:
* You can transport up to 8 passengers that are personal family and friends without commercial insurance, only normal personal auto insurance.
* You can transport up to 8 passengers that are employees, co-workers, students of a educational facility you are employed by, etc and so on with a commercial auto liability insurance policy.
* To transport ANY passengers "FOR HIRE" you must have a commercial auto insurance policy WITH a passenger endorsement.
* In California, Progressive Commercial auto insurance policy has a rider called "TAXI" that is required for those transporting passengers on "HAIL RIDES" as well as scheduled rides, both being "For Hire".
* In California, Progressive Commercial auto insurance policy has a rider called "BLACK/LIMO" that is usable "instead of TAXI" for those transporting passengers "For Hire" but only scheduled rides and I believe there are also vehicle type limitations.
* In California, Insurance differentiates "TAXI" and "BLACK/LIMO" as there is more potential liability concerns with "TAXI" due to the nature of the service provided over "BLACK/LIMO".



Pax Collector said:


> Progressive can make up their own rules. Any hybrid or commercial insurance will cover all those activities as long as you're on the same page with your insurer.


No, an insurance provider regulated by the state insurance commissioner as is the case in California can not make up their own rules. They can chose whether or not to offer any particular type of insurance as defined by the state insurance regulations and whether or not to offer particular riders associated with particular types of insurance.

First example: In California, you can purchase personal auto insurance through Costco which is through American Family Insurance. American Family Insurance offers a Rideshare rider onto its personal auto insurance policies. HOWEVER, IF you purchase that THROUGH Costco, you can NOT get that rideshare rider because COSTCO offers a specific contract.

Second example: In California, you can purchase commercial auto liability insurance through a AAA affiliate company. HOWEVER, even though that company, Kemper Speciality, does have commercial auto liability insurance products with available CARGO endorsements, when purchasing that through the AAA agency, those endorsements are not available.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

BigJohn said:


> No, an insurance provider regulated by the state insurance commissioner as is the case in California can not make up their own rules. They can chose whether or not to offer any particular type of insurance as defined by the state insurance regulations and whether or not to offer particular riders associated with particular types of insurance.
> 
> First example: In California, you can purchase personal auto insurance through Costco which is through American Family Insurance. American Family Insurance offers a Rideshare rider onto its personal auto insurance policies. HOWEVER, IF you purchase that THROUGH Costco, you can NOT get that rideshare rider because COSTCO offers a specific contract.
> 
> Second example: In California, you can purchase commercial auto liability insurance through a AAA affiliate company. HOWEVER, even though that company, Kemper Speciality, does have commercial auto liability insurance products with available CARGO endorsements, when purchasing that through the AAA agency, those endorsements are not available.


Bottomline is if I have the "Ok" from my insurer to transport riders for hire, I'm good to go. I did it throughout my rideshare driving. My insurance company was well aware of my commercial activities. The only "Endorsement" I had was their blessing to use my car for Uber/Lyft driving.

Now, doing all that without telling your insurer would obviously invalidate your policy since you can't use a personal policy for business.

My advice to anyone driving for rideshare is to speak to their agent and see what their options are. A full on commercial policy or a rideshare endorsement (Depending on what the insurer offers in that particular market) is the way to go as to not risk being dropped, should the insurer find out about the extracurricular activities.


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## BigJohn (Jan 27, 2016)

Pax Collector said:


> Bottomline is if I have the "Ok" from my insurer to transport riders for hire, I'm good to go.


NOPE, only if it is in writing. There have been many stories posted about an agent saying "yeah yeah yeah you are covered" and then when an accident happens the underwriter and claims adjuster and lawyers say sorry, not covered.

I have a commercial auto insurance policy through Progressive through an agent for my business which is to haul cargo, 95% are autos, on pickups and utility trailers. When I first signed up through an agent that I thought I trusted, that agent had classified by auto hauling as towing. Well after I received all my documents and then spoke directly to customer service at Progressive, turns out that the agent had done that to save me some money. However that is not what I do. In California, the insurance regulations differentiate between towing and transporting vehicles "For Hire" as they each while being similar have different potential liability concerns, and as such are rated differently. If I had not done my own due diligence and fully read the actual policy and endorsements and then contacted Progressive to clarify my questions, and if I had an accident while transporting a car from Southern California to Las Vegas, I would not have been covered since my insurance was classified as towning and not transporting. And yes, I switched agents.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

BigJohn said:


> NOPE, only if it is in writing


Agreed.


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