# All of my rides tonight were negative balances on Ubers fare!!



## Erik M (Sep 30, 2018)

Tell me how this makes sense from a business point of view! I decided to try Ubers new overhaul of our fare and destination info feature and every ride but 1 was negative on Ubers fare. Prior to this debacle Uber was making double digits off my rides. What sense does this make to set pax fares at a fixed amount vs. what they were doing before? The driver made money, Uber made money, everyone was happy(well sorta). I can't see this continuing like this.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Erik M said:


> Tell me how this makes sense from a business point of view! I decided to try Ubers new overhaul of our fare and destination info feature and every ride but 1 was negative on Ubers fare. Prior to this debacle Uber was making double digits off my rides. What sense does this make to set pax fares at a fixed amount vs. what they were doing before? The driver made money, Uber made money, everyone was happy(well sorta). I can't see this continuing like this.


It makes sense. Uber's "buffering" the drivers into the "new" system by going easy on the service fees temporarily.

It's nothing new for Uber. They used to do similar things following their annual (or semi-annual) pay cuts.

Following each pay cut, Uber would proclaim that they were so confident the drivers would earn more, they would offer temporary "guarantees" to the drivers. 

That's where the derisive expression "lower rates means higher earnings for our partners" came from.


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

Erik M said:


> Tell me how this makes sense from a business point of view! I decided to try Ubers new overhaul of our fare and destination info feature and every ride but 1 was negative on Ubers fare. Prior to this debacle Uber was making double digits off my rides. What sense does this make to set pax fares at a fixed amount vs. what they were doing before? The driver made money, Uber made money, everyone was happy(well sorta). I can't see this continuing like this.


Do you believe those figures they show you?


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## Erik M (Sep 30, 2018)

Mash Ghasem said:


> Do you believe those figures they show you?
> 
> View attachment 593497


Lol!!


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## Flier5425 (Jun 2, 2016)

Erik M said:


> Tell me how this makes sense from a business point of view! I decided to try Ubers new overhaul of our fare and destination info feature and every ride but 1 was negative on Ubers fare. Prior to this debacle Uber was making double digits off my rides. What sense does this make to set pax fares at a fixed amount vs. what they were doing before? The driver made money, Uber made money, everyone was happy(well sorta). I can't see this continuing like this.


If Uber can pervert the market with artificially low prices to the PAX and over pay the drivers they will accomplish the two things discussed nonstop by media over the last two weeks: PAX get cheap rides and drivers come back to fill those requests. There is a time limit, however, due to Uber's 250 million injection will have been spent and the hope is uneducated drivers will stay, PAX will continue ordering rides, & Uber will be able to pocket more of each fare.

This is a bait and switch tactic Uber has used regularly. It isn't working in my area right now and I hope it fails to attract drivers. We drivers need to create leverage that was given away recently with the passage of Prop22. If we can gain the leverage we had then it might generate a better outcome. I am not holding my breath but hope is eternal.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

And still uber loses money because no one is driving and people can not get a ride.


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## Erik M (Sep 30, 2018)

Flier5425 said:


> If Uber can pervert the market with artificially low prices to the PAX and over pay the drivers they will accomplish the two things discussed nonstop by media over the last two weeks: PAX get cheap rides and drivers come back to fill those requests. There is a time limit, however, due to Uber's 250 million injection will have been spent and the hope is uneducated drivers will stay, PAX will continue ordering rides, & Uber will be able to pocket more of each fare.
> 
> This is a bait and switch tactic Uber has used regularly. It isn't working in my area right now and I hope it fails to attract drivers. We drivers need to create leverage that was given away recently with the passage of Prop22. If we can gain the leverage we had then it might generate a better outcome. I am not holding my breath but hope is eternal.


You're right, and I appreciate your encouragement. I'm against driving but last night as I was sitting in front of the TV debating in my head whether to go weather the storm and see the outcome of the recent changes, it was eating at me and I couldn't take it anymore. Much like a drug addict when they're trying to quit but have to take one last hit. It's very hard to do their 6/10 thing when the next ride that came in would be 25 mIns away. No way I would drive that far not knowing the duration of the trip! I worked from about 0630 to about 2230 and made $148.57 and did 8 rides. Typically would have brought in $250 with 5-6 rides on a Friday night with surge fares. Uber made a decent fare off 1 of my XL rides which they walked away with $22 to my $30 and I even took the long way, the wayyyy long way since the pax were tourists and didn't know the area and they still took home that amount. All that being said it's just not in my money interest to go out anymore with Uber now taking 25%, no dest info, and no more surges. I'm still confused about the surges because everywhere else throughout the country they still offer surges so why take it away from us?! I hope other drivers can hold out and not drive to try and bring change to Uber but I'm optimistic!


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## TGK (May 31, 2018)

Erik M said:


> Tell me how this makes sense from a business point of view! I decided to try Ubers new overhaul of our fare and destination info feature and every ride but 1 was negative on Ubers fare. Prior to this debacle Uber was making double digits off my rides. What sense does this make to set pax fares at a fixed amount vs. what they were doing before? The driver made money, Uber made money, everyone was happy(well sorta). I can't see this continuing like this.


Uber and Lyft (to a lesser degree) are Drug Dealers, they get you used to the product, they get you liking the product, you neglect your car and stop paying for gas, maybe even drop your insurance. When they get you hooked, that's when the shit becomes real and market price goes up...


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Erik M said:


> You're right, and I appreciate your encouragement. I'm against driving but last night as I was sitting in front of the TV debating in my head whether to go weather the storm and see the outcome of the recent changes, it was eating at me and I couldn't take it anymore. Much like a drug addict when they're trying to quit but have to take one last hit. It's very hard to do their 6/10 thing when the next ride that came in would be 25 mIns away. No way I would drive that far not knowing the duration of the trip! I worked from about 0630 to about 2230 and made $148.57 and did 8 rides. Typically would have brought in $250 with 5-6 rides on a Friday night with surge fares. Uber made a decent fare off 1 of my XL rides which they walked away with $22 to my $30 and I even took the long way, the wayyyy long way since the pax were tourists and didn't know the area and they still took home that amount. All that being said it's just not in my money interest to go out anymore with Uber now taking 25%, no dest info, and no more surges. I'm still confused about the surges because everywhere else throughout the country they still offer surges so why take it away from us?! I hope other drivers can hold out and not drive to try and bring change to Uber but I'm optimistic!


Since Covid 19 began, there has been little or no surge. And, on average Uber takes at least 30% of the fare and if the fare is under $10 their cut is more like 50%.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Erik M said:


> Tell me how this makes sense from a business point of view! I decided to try Ubers new overhaul of our fare and destination info feature and every ride but 1 was negative on Ubers fare. Prior to this debacle Uber was making double digits off my rides. What sense does this make to set pax fares at a fixed amount vs. what they were doing before? The driver made money, Uber made money, everyone was happy(well sorta). I can't see this continuing like this.


Last Friday (04/23/21) was the first time I went out and drove without the fare multiplier. It was non-stop ping after ping with minimum fare rides all over a 30 mile range. Then the surge kicked in and was paying out the wazoo ($25 - $27 surge) and I ended with a $50 average for the night... Uber lost a lot with me vs. how much they would make when I had the fare multiplier.

Some of the stats to that Friday...

It took me 16 rides to do what I usually do with 4 to 8 rides! While not bad at $290 for the night the past few months when I drove it would usually be well over $350. 3 rides out of the 16 were cancelled for no show....

My average distance per trip was 2.51 miles
My average time per trip was 5:37 minutes

My average distance to each pax was 1.4 miles
My average time to each pax was 6 minutes

My average fare per ride was $15.73
Average surge per ride was $9.02

The average fare the pax *PAID* was $13.14!

Average percent Uber got per ride... -28.13%

One particular trip that stands out .77 mile trip that took 2:54. The pax paid Uber $8.20 - Uber paid me $26.99!

The pings were non-stop, pax said left and right it was taking forever if ever, to get a ride. Many of these pax would have gladly paid higher surge rates for a ride. 

I didn't drive on Saturday I had other plans.

----

Now for Friday 04/30/21. The Surge Honeymoon *IS OVER*! Nada. Nothing. Good luck getting a ride because I was getting ping after ping for minimum fare rides and I never left my holding spot for a couple of hours. I was watching the other ants and for the most part they all sat in the same place they were at as well.

I did a couple of rides to the beach and gave up. There was no surge and I will never take a minimum fare ride even if it's close by...

Oh well... it was good while it lasted. Thankfully I don't count of rideshare at all to pay the bills...


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Erik M said:


> Tell me how this makes sense from a business point of view! I decided to try Ubers new overhaul of our fare and destination info feature and every ride but 1 was negative on Ubers fare. Prior to this debacle Uber was making double digits off my rides. What sense does this make to set pax fares at a fixed amount vs. what they were doing before? The driver made money, Uber made money, everyone was happy(well sorta). I can't see this continuing like this.


You're doing the Lord's work with this.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Erik M said:


> Tell me how this makes sense from a business point of view! I decided to try Ubers new overhaul of our fare and destination info feature and every ride but 1 was negative on Ubers fare. Prior to this debacle Uber was making double digits off my rides. What sense does this make to set pax fares at a fixed amount vs. what they were doing before? The driver made money, Uber made money, everyone was happy(well sorta). I can't see this continuing like this.


_$$ I am so proud of you $$_

Keep up the good work


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Thankfully I don't count of rideshare at all to pay the bills...


I"m going out Monday for first time in 13 months. Shooting for the easy, peasy 3 for $100. Once I got that, going back home.


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## Loch Ness Driver (Mar 23, 2021)

Uber had no idea that you drive like a grandma, if they did it would have deactivated you long before the new upfront pricing change


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## EM1 (Apr 28, 2019)

I dont believe uber is showing actual paid by rider info. When multiplier was still available, I had riders telling me how much uber was charging them - and often it was a heck of a lot more than what the ping quote or final tab shown by uber was. Little uber gaslighting games.


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## Loch Ness Driver (Mar 23, 2021)

I've asked maybe 20 times give or take, on surge rides, and every time it has been spot on minus about tree fiddy which accounts for the booking fee etc.


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## Da Ub (Oct 29, 2016)

Mole said:


> And still uber loses money because no one is driving and people can not get a ride.
> 
> View attachment 593572


Sorry bro, I was giving someone a ride to Fremont from Santa Rosa when you made the request 🤑


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## PukersAreAlwaysYourFault (Mar 25, 2021)

You and all the funny drivers who think they're gaming Uber, they have the last laugh on you. Where they're 'losing', they're gaining elsewhere. Nevertheless how it irons out, every ride is a profit for them because you're the one putting in the work. How they choose to distribute their profits is on them.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

PukersAreAlwaysYourFault said:


> You and all the funny drivers who think they're gaming Uber, they have the last laugh on you. Where they're 'losing', they're gaining elsewhere. Nevertheless how it irons out, every ride is a profit for them because you're the one putting in the work. How they choose to distribute their profits is on them.













Every businessman can operate as they please. Some of us are more concerned with profit margin than others.


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## PukersAreAlwaysYourFault (Mar 25, 2021)

Amos69 said:


> Every businessman can operate as they please. Some of us are more concerned with profit margin than others.


No kidding? Just as the rideshare companies are more concerned with profit margin than others. Get it while it's hawt.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Erik M said:


> Tell me how this makes sense from a business point of view! I decided to try Ubers new overhaul of our fare and destination info feature and every ride but 1 was negative on Ubers fare. Prior to this debacle Uber was making double digits off my rides. What sense does this make to set pax fares at a fixed amount vs. what they were doing before? The driver made money, Uber made money, everyone was happy(well sorta). I can't see this continuing like this.


Maybe I’m confused about your question, but it reads like you believe it all means Uber made “negative” dollars on each fare? Is that correct?

If my interpretation of your question is accurate, then you’re misinterpreting what you’re seeing.

Uber didn’t make “negative balances” on your trips.

What you’re seeing is is them telling you the dollars paid to you by the passenger. See, every single dollar paid by a passenger at trip booking is paid to you, the driver. THEN you, the driver, pay Uber a service fee for connecting you with your customer. Uber is telling you that they subtracted X dollars from the fee paid to you, as a service fee to Uber.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Maybe I’m confused about your question, but it reads like you believe it all means Uber made “negative” dollars on each fare? Is that correct?
> 
> If my interpretation of your question is accurate, then you’re misinterpreting what you’re seeing.
> 
> ...











Sorry Chief, UBER lost money on this trip.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

somedriverguy said:


> View attachment 593980
> 
> Sorry Chief, UBER lost money on this trip.


I get what you’re saying, but Uber isn’t breaking everything down for you there, and they’re not even obligated to do so.

We all know that passengers are paying huge surge rates right now, which aren’t passed on to drivers. All you’re seeing there is the standard customer price for the time/miles paid by the customer, but no hidden surges shown. Uber just paid you a portion of the hidden surge that the pax paid.

IF you don’t believe me, pull up the passenger app on a separate device during a Friday or Saturday night and look at the crazy surges pax have to pay, then look at the surge map on the driver app. You’ll likely see very little or no surge shown at all...except to areas far away from you, which will “magically” disappear as you get closer.

They’re not losing 3x the money each trip.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

UberChiefPIT said:


> I get what you’re saying, but Uber isn’t breaking everything down for you there, and they’re not even obligated to do so.
> 
> We all know that passengers are paying huge surge rates right now, which aren’t passed on to drivers. All you’re seeing there is the standard customer price for the time/miles paid by the customer, but no hidden surges shown. Uber just paid you a portion of the hidden surge that the pax paid.
> 
> ...


















Wrong again Chief, this is UBER making money on a trip. That weird surge amount didn't come from the map (not all of it, anyway), I got 60/40'd.

The bastards.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

What I will add that you are right on is that they are not showing the full amount that the pax are paying. They still arent listing the "market fee" as part of the total. You can tell when you get an odd tip that doesn't equal a 10/15/20% and also doesn't add the bill up to an even dollar amount (which is how people think).


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

somedriverguy said:


> View attachment 593987
> View attachment 593988
> 
> Wrong again Chief, this is UBER making money on a trip. That weird surge amount didn't come from the map (not all of it, anyway), I got 60/40'd.
> ...


No, that is them showing you visible surge. Those are surges that YOU, the driver, can see on the map and/or collected while waiting for your next trip ping.

They do NOT show in the price breakdown invisible surges (surges charged to pax but not displayed to drivers on the map). It would be dumb of them to show you in the price breakdown the invisible surges they charged passengers, but didn’t show on the driver map, because it would defeat the purpose of deliberately hiding them from drivers on the map.

In the end, we get drivers like you who believe Uber is losing 3x money on a trip. LOL. No, they certainly are not paying you 3x what the pax paid to book the trip. Uber is simply dipping into the invisible surge to pay you out of what the pax paid in visible surge to them.


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

Boys...

Uber is just making it look like you are making a killing and that they are losing money, truth is until you see your taxes at the end of the year, you won't se by how much they ****ed you over.

Want to know the truth? ask the pax how much they paid, though I think they deactivate for that now, either way I don't think they can afford to deactivate anyone right now 🤣 🤣 🤣


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Maybe I’m confused about your question, but it reads like you believe it all means Uber made “negative” dollars on each fare? Is that correct?
> 
> If my interpretation of your question is accurate, then you’re misinterpreting what you’re seeing.
> 
> ...


Yes and no.



Both Goober and Gryft lose money on my fares every singlrmötherfûçkîng day.


that is how this happens










I cant do that unless they lose money on some of my fares


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Amos69 said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sure. “Some”. They wouldn’t be able to keep the lights on if they were losing 3x. But it’s no secret to most (apparently “some” don’t believe it, tho) that they “subsidize” bigger payments to drivers by dipping into hidden surges paid by pax.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

The Entomologist said:


> Boys...
> 
> Uber is just making it look like you are making a killing and that they are losing money, truth is until you see your taxes at the end of the year, you won't se by how much they ****ed you over.
> 
> Want to know the truth? ask the pax how much they paid, though I think they deactivate for that now, either way I don't think they can afford to deactivate anyone right now 🤣 🤣 🤣


I have been asking my pax what they pay. The half or so that answer always quote 3 to 4 dollars above what UBER says, that's why I know they are hiding the market fee from us.


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

As long as we're posting screenshots... here's mine


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

The Entomologist said:


> Boys...
> 
> Uber is just making it look like you are making a killing and that they are losing money, truth is until you see your taxes at the end of the year, you won't se by how much they ****ed you over.
> 
> Want to know the truth? ask the pax how much they paid, though I think they deactivate for that now, either way I don't think they can afford to deactivate anyone right now 🤣 🤣 🤣


Uber is losing money and these “negative fares” for Uber are offset by constant trips where they take 35-50% plus booking fee. 

Uber rideshare lost $1.5B again last quarter.


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## Stealth (Sep 8, 2020)

Diamondraider said:


> Uber is losing money and these “negative fares” for Uber are offset by constant trips where they take 35-50% plus booking fee.
> 
> Uber rideshare lost $1.5B again last quarter.


Uber posts "loses" to avoid paying taxes 

They know what they are doing


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