# Why is the base pay for Uber drivers so low? (from 'Quora)



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

QUESTION:
*Why is the base pay for Uber drivers so low?*
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-base-pay-for-Uber-drivers-so-low

ANSWER:
 Woodward McKee, Owner Written Dec 14

I own a small taxi company. The answer is simple: Uber drivers do not know their costs.

In most markets the biggest expense is empty miles.
*We average 1.5 empty miles for every paid mile.*
You have to drive back to the middle of town empty most of the time and then empty to the next pickup. Uber charges ~$1/mile, so the driver grosses around $.80 per occupied mile after Uber's fee or $.32 per odometer mile. Gas alone is going to eat about $.12 per mile, probably more since there's a lot of idling and city miles. So drivers are netting about $.20 per odometer mile after gas. Cars costs more than this to operate.

The problem is Uber miles blend with personal use. Uber drivers are looking at the deposit they receive and not deducting their costs. Unfortunately they are either working for free or donating their car to Uber, depending on how you look at it.​


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

yep


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## emdeplam (Jan 13, 2017)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> QUESTION:
> *Why is the base pay for Uber drivers so low?*
> https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-base-pay-for-Uber-drivers-so-low
> 
> ...


I bought a new car to Uber so I can't see a lot of operational costs, its new! Also with pool I doubt I have empty miles, I never get rid of the pax!


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> QUESTION:
> *Why is the base pay for Uber drivers so low?*
> 
> The answer is simple: Uber drivers do not know.


You could put an endless amount of words on the end of that answer.
1) cost
2) laws
3) insurance
4) taxes
5) business
6) operating deductions
7) NHTSA
8) underwriting
9) livery, limo or taxi
10) P/L spreadsheets
11) DOT guidelines
12) standard IRS deduction
13) ADA compliance requirements
14) child restraint laws
15) liability of public transportation
16) state mandated requirements
17) 1040 SE Tax qualifications
18) airport mandated requirements
19) and the list continues

But the real answer to your question is;
Uber drivers do not know anything except what Uber tells them.
It's a new twist to the kids game Simon Says.
Uber says pick up underage pax. Uber says you get $.65/mile to drive. Uber says to pick up 6 people in your Prius. Uber says they won't cover damage to your car. Uber says they won't pay the airport fines. Uber says you're deactivated because pax makes false claim. And the list continues.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

emdeplam said:


> I bought a new car to Uber so I can't see a lot of operational costs, its new! Also with pool I doubt I have empty miles, I never get rid of the pax!


Pool sucks.
It is harmful to the driver duped into providing it(2-3 rides for the pay of 1) It is Very harmful to the other 2 drivers WHO DID NOT GET A RIDE because YOU were duped into pool !
Pool is a total rip off and insult to Drivers ! Added liability ,added wear & tear added ratings liabilities for less than the meager profit of just 1 x ride !
Lose Lose venture .


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> But the real answer to your question is;...


Not my question.
And your 'real answer' to the OP's question is more of a rambling complaint than an answer, isn't it?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Not my question.
> And you 'real answer' to the OP's question is more of a rambling complaint than an answer, isn't it?


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Not my question.
> And you 'real answer' to the OP's question is more of a rambling complaint than an answer, isn't it?


True, it was McKee's question. You may be right about the rambling complaint, but if you conglomerate most of the questions in this forum they could be asserted to that question.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> True, it was McKee's question. You may be right about the rambling complaint, but if you conglomerate most of the questions in this forum they could be asserted to that question.


lol... true enough.


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## leroy jenkins (May 27, 2015)

but it's a write-off!


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> QUESTION:
> *Why is the base pay for Uber drivers so low?*
> https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-base-pay-for-Uber-drivers-so-low
> 
> ...


What I left of the article states, in fact, why TNC fares can be lower that taxi fares. If you are driving TNC, you need not deadhead back to your jurisdiction of licensure, as must a taxi. If I receive an Uber Taxi ping that takes me to Dulles Airport, I must deadhead the twenty-five miles back to the City before I can pick up another customer. If I want to get back Downtown, it is another three miles; ad another mile or two if I want to get to Capitol Hill.

If I receive an UberX ping that takes me to Dulles Airport, I can drop that customer and receive another UberX ping right at the airport. If I choose not to wait at the airport, I can receive a ping in one of the places that surround the airport. The only deadheading that I must do on UberX is that which I choose to do.

To be sure, we do have here the Reciprocal Agreement and Interstate Compact of 1947 that allows taxis licenced in one jurisdiction to pick up in another signatory jurisdiction, but that must be done only in response to a telephone call or previous arrangement. Stopping and asking a street hail is not allowed. Such requests are the exception for the city cabs. There are two suburban companies that do take better advantage of this Agreement, but even there, the competition among drivers for those requests is fierce. It involves far more sitting or driving around than it would for TNCs. Further, the TNC driver can accept any request, regardless of destination while the taxi driver can receive only requests returning to his jurisdiction of licensure.

Despite all of the above, the writer of the article's point about the costs is not totally destroyed. Even with the elimination of deadheading, sixty five cents to one dollar twenty five per mile will not compensate a driver adequately. One dollar fifty the mile would begin to get there. A figure of one dollar seventy five to one dollar eighty the mile would be better. People would use the service still, at that rate. If Uber has proved anything, it has proved that the demand for ground transportation for hire is far greater than anyone had imagined. People never used to use it because they could not get it. Uber has brought it to them.

If Uber does want the bus riders, it can branch off Uber Pool into a separate service and sign up drivers exclusively for it or allow UberX, Select (where available) and Black drivers to opt-in/opt-out of it. My frequent remark about Uber's re-instating all of the bad drivers and limiting them to Uber Pool is not made entirely tongue-in-cheek. Uber could put into place lower vehicle and rating standards, keep its sub-standard U-Pool rates and people would use the service. The bus riders already are accustomed to rude drivers, obnoxious no-bath-taking fellow riders and beat up METRObusses as it is. Uber Hoopties with the same passengers and drivers and rates a dollar more than the bus would be acceptable to most users. In fact, you justify the "dollar-more-than-the-bus" because you provide door-to-door; no need to get to a subway or bus stop.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> What I left of the article states, in fact, why TNC fares can be lower that taxi fares.


Huh?


> If you are driving TNC, you need not deadhead back to your jurisdiction of licensure...


 uh, that's because, in most areas, TNC drivers don't require "licensure" - but that doesn't mean we don't have to deadhead to the pick-up location and then deadhead back to a location where we are more likely to get a ride.


> If I receive an Uber Taxi ping that takes me to Dulles Airport, I must deadhead the twenty-five miles back to the City before I can pick up another customer. If I want to get back Downtown, it is another three miles; ad another mile or two if I want to get to Capitol Hill.


And if I drop a pax at the airport, I have to choose between waiting in a queue for an hour or more to get an airport pick-up (which will more than likely net only a $9 ride) or dead-head 12 miles back downtown.

The point made in the article is that TNC drivers and hacks both have to eat dead miles - but that most TNC drivers have no idea how that impacts their actual earnings. And the whole point of the article is that TNC FARES can be lower than taxis because TNC drivers are unaware of their real costs which allows the TNCs to move all expenses to the driver, while setting FARES to whatever they want (since the TNC is not effected by those pesky driver's expenses).


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Huh?
> 
> uh, that's because, in most areas, TNC drivers don't require "licensure" - but that doesn't mean we don't have to deadhead to the pick-up location and then deadhead back to a location where we are more likely to get a ride. And if I drop a pax at the airport, I have to choose between waiting in a queue for an hour or more to get an airport pick-up (which will more than likely net only a $9 ride) or dead-head 12 miles back downtown.
> 
> The point made in the article is that TNC drivers and hacks both have to eat dead miles - but that most TNC drivers have no idea how that impacts their actual earnings. And the whole point of the article is that TNC FARES can be lower than taxis because TNC drivers are unaware of their real costs which allows the TNCs to move all expenses to the driver, while setting FARES to whatever they want (since the TNC is not effected by those pesky driver's expenses).


The TNC fares can be lower because TNC drivers need not deadhead as much as cab drivers. Do keep in mind (..and I did post this) that this does not mean that TNC fares can be half of cab fares, it simply means that they need not be as much.

The lack of licensure, is, in fact, why the TNC drivers need not deadhead, should they choose not to do that. Perhaps in your market, you must deadhead twelve miles to receive a non-airport ping, but that is not the case, here. If I go to Dulles Airport, I can leave that airport and go to Reston or Herndon, both of which are next to Dulles Airport, and receive a ping, quickly. I can deadhead twelve miles to Tyson's (instead of twenty-eight miles downtown) and receive a ping, if I do not want anything in Reston or Herndon. I can go another five miles to Falls Gulch or two more miles to far North Arlington and receive a ping if I do not want anything in Tyson's. The point is that I can choose to wait, or choose to deadhead, but, even if I choose neither, I need not waste as much time or mileage on TNC as I must in the cab. At worse, on TNC my deadheading is less, thus my empty mile cost is less, _*dipso facto, QED*_, my costs on TNC are lower. Do keep in mind that this does not deny that there are fewer "regulatory" costs to the TNC driver than there are to the cab driver. The focus of this is strictly the deadheading costs.

While it is true that many TNC drivers are less aware of their costs than are cab drivers, the TNC drivers can avoid the deadheading costs that the cab driver can not. This is why I question the author's arguments about deadheading costs. He could use other costs and still make his arguments (mechanical, insurance, for two).


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## rosco_78 (Nov 26, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> QUESTION:
> *Why is the base pay for Uber drivers so low?*
> https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-base-pay-for-Uber-drivers-so-low
> 
> ...


Yeah.....I'm well aware of the costs associated with operating my vehicle. The base rate in my city is $1.24 per mile. Include boosts and surges and that number increases significantly. I worked 15.25 hrs last week and took in $525 after Uber's cut....I only drove approximately 175 miles last week.... but go ahead and tell me my net is .20 per mile


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

rosco_78 said:


> Yeah.....I'm well aware of the costs associated with operating my vehicle. The base rate in my city is $1.24 per mile. Include boosts and surges and that number increases significantly. I worked 15.25 hrs last week and took in $525 after Uber's cut....I only drove approximately 175 miles last week.... but go ahead and tell me my net is .20 per mile


How long have you been driving Uber?
(and you don't really think your results are 'typical' for all drivers, do you?)

And you do know the article wasn't written about you - but about the industry (and that there are always people who fall outside the 'average')?



Another Uber Driver said:


> While it is true that many TNC drivers are less aware of their costs than are cab drivers, the TNC drivers can avoid the deadheading costs that the cab driver can not. This is why I question the author's arguments about deadheading costs. He could use other costs and still make his arguments (mechanical, insurance, for two).


After 3 years of driving (and comparing notes with other drivers in my area), I can say that in our experience - in this area - averaging 1.5 deadhead miles for each paid mile is a pretty fair estimate for driving here - and for many drivers here, it's more like 2 unpaid miles for every paid mile. ymmv


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> ymmv


Indeed, it does. Mine is about 0.8-1,1 to 1. I burn up more time than anything else, as I spend much of my working time downtown, where other drivers do not want to go. I have an advantage over them in that I do know what I am doing downtown. If I do get something that takes me out there somewhere, I will work there. At that point, the unpaid mileage that you must expend to cover pings does increase. In downtown, I mi ght turn up my nose at a ping that is five blocks away because it is rush hour, the one ways are against me and it is behind the direction in which I am pointed. In the residential parts of the city, I might travel a mile and a half to two miles to cover a ping; in the suburbs, three or four. Time expended is a greater factor for me.

I do not disbelieve what your empirical evidence is showing you. These things will tend to vary by market in TNC work.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I do not disbelieve what your empirical evidence is showing you. These things will tend to vary by market in TNC work.


Yup - and also by neighborhood - and driver's habits. Some drivers have much better habits and discipline than others - and our results reflect that. I know that I drive differently (location, time-of-day, day-of-week) depending on my mood - and my finances.


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## Jimmy Bernat (Apr 12, 2016)

Last year I averaged out $1.38 a mile after uber/lyft fees, maintenance and after gas. My rate in my market is $1/. 13 for X and $2/.25 for Select. I always picked and choose the best times to work, limited dead miles. It also helped that I live in a downtown area so I can sit on my couch and wait out bigger select fares which usually end up coming from one of the buildings in the 1 mile radius of me. 
My per mile end rate also includes some personal mileage as I have an Uber car and a personal car but sometimes I would drive the uber car to do person errands but the way I calculate my earnings was on the total cost of my uber car


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Jimmy Bernat said:


> Last year I averaged out $1.38 a mile after uber/lyft fees, maintenance and after gas.


And how many miles did you drive last year?


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## Jimmy Bernat (Apr 12, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And how many miles did you drive last year?


48,561


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Jimmy Bernat said:


> 48,561


good... now, what do Uber & Lyft report as your 'paid' miles for the year?
(and if you don't mind sharing, what model/year of car are you driving for Uber Select?)


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## Jimmy Bernat (Apr 12, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> good... now, what does Uber report as your 'paid' miles for the year?
> (and if you don't mind sharing, what model/year of car are your driving for Uber Select?)


I'd have to look at my 1099 from Uber for that . I drove both Uber and Lyft . I'll post that Uber paid miles later

I started out in a BMW 335 and finished in a 2015 VW Passat SEL . I'm down to Ubering about 8 hours a week I just bought a 2014 Ford Explorer Sport which I'll add Select/XL to for the little bit I do , along with the Mazda3 we're buying for my wifes car

EDIT Uber Paid Miles just over 14k and 20k miles with Lyft (I should note I started Lyft in February and didn't start uber till the end of march ) Lyft also reports all driver mode miles , which I would leave lyft on while running errands in destination mode regularly


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Jimmy Bernat said:


> I'd have to look at my 1099 from Uber for that . I drove both Uber and Lyft . I'll post that Uber paid miles later
> 
> I started out in a BMW 335 and finished in a 2015 VW Passat SEL . I'm down to Ubering about 8 hours a week I just bought a 2014 Ford Explorer Sport which I'll add Select/XL to for the little bit I do , along with the Mazda3 we're buying for my wifes car
> 
> EDIT Uber Paid Miles just over 14k and 20k miles with Lyft (I should note I started Lyft in February and didn't start uber till the end of march ) Lyft also reports all driver mode miles , which I would leave lyft on while running errands in destination mode regularly


Thanks - can you clarify the Lyft miles? Is that 20,000 paid Lyft miles or total miles paid & unpaid? 
Can you estimate just the paid miles for Lyft?


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## Jimmy Bernat (Apr 12, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Thanks - can you clarify the Lyft miles? Is that 20,000 paid Lyft miles or total miles paid & unpaid?
> Can you estimate just the paid miles for Lyft?


Lyft give total driver mode miles anytime you're logged in even if you are in destination mode it tracks it . I honestly have no idea of my Lyft only paid miles sorry . But I'd guess it's around 15k maybe


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Jimmy Bernat said:


> Lyft give total driver mode miles anytime you're logged in even if you are in destination mode it tracks it . I honestly have no idea of my Lyft only paid miles sorry . But I'd guess it's around 15k maybe


How do you know if lyft is paying you correctly if you don't know how many miles you're being paid for?
<shrug>
In any case, I guess it looks like you did ~14,000 paid miles with Uber and ~15,000 paid miles with lyft?
So, in round numbers (48,561 total miles) = ~20,000 unpaid miles and ~30,000 in paid miles.


> Last year I averaged out $1.38 a mile after uber/lyft fees, maintenance and after gas.


$1.38 X 30,000 miles = $41,400 in net earnings after expenses.
I'm not sure your earnings numbers add up when you also account for ~half your paid miles being on Lyft ($0.75/mi + $0.10/min after fees) even assuming 75% of your Uber miles being on SELECT.
And you still have to account for 20,000 miles of lost value on your cars (depreciation).

I think this is what the author of that article is pointing out: that even those of us who try to account for all of our expenses don't have a perfect handle on them; even when we try to be conservative, we tend to underestimate our actual costs. I know I do - and I work hard at trying to get it right.
Do you disagree?

I'm having difficulty understanding the time you spent on the road, too.
You drove 48,561 miles, which at 3 min a mile (a good average) = 2,248 hours.
2,248 hours / 52 weeks = 46.7 hours/wk driving... actually MOVING (not including any time spent parked).
Since we know that no one is always moving (putting miles on the car), it's probably safe to assume your actual time spent out working is closer to 60 hours a week? Did you drive full-time last year? I'm tired just thinking about it!


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> How do you know if lyft is paying you correctly if you don't know how many miles you're being paid for?
> <shrug>
> In any case, I guess it looks like you did ~14,000 paid miles with Uber and ~15,000 paid miles with lyft?
> So, in round numbers (48,561 total miles) = ~20,000 unpaid miles and ~30,000 in paid miles.
> ...


That's true. 8 hours a week and making 48K doesn't add up.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Shangsta said:


> That's true. 8 hours a week and making 48K doesn't add up.


48,561 is his total *miles* driven.
30,000 paid miles X $1.38 = $41,400 / 52 weeks = ~$800/wk. 
Gas for 50,000 miles would be around $80/wk.
So, you'd have to gross around $1,200/wk to get to the $800/wk in earnings after just gas & fees (but still before repairs & maintenance) 
Perfectly 'do-able' if you drive full-time - especially if you have access to SELECT and XL.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> 48,561 is his total *miles* driven.
> 30,000 paid miles X $1.38 = $41,400 / 52 weeks = ~$800/wk.
> Gas for 50,000 miles would be around $80/wk.
> So, you'd have to gross around $1,200/wk to get to the $800/wk in earnings after just gas & fees (but still before repairs & maintenance)
> Perfectly 'do-able' if you drive full-time - especially if you have access to SELECT and XL.


If you drive full-time


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Shangsta said:


> If you drive full-time


Yes,  that's what I said.

Last summer someone here posted the question 'can you earn $1,000/wk doing just Uber X?'
I decided to find out. SO I parked the XL and set out to hit that number.
It too a lot to do it in my market (80 hours) but I did do it.
(oh - and I'll never do it again)


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## Jimmy Bernat (Apr 12, 2016)

I think you all misunderstood me I only drive 8 hours a week now I started a full time job in january . You also don't take in account bonuses, surge , referrals etc... All of which I consider pay from Uber and Lyft . It's not just base pay ..

Also I never spent more then $50 a week for gas , usually 1.5 tanks at $35ish a tank (my car has an 18gallon tank and gas was almost under $2 a gallon teh entire year and once a month Id get a tank at under a buck a gallon with fuel rewards )

Also for the year in the Passat I didnt have any repairs and under $200 in maintenance as I do my own oil changes and then new tires which cost me $200 for winter tires used with about 85% tread and installed for free from a friend that works at BigO .

I never worked over 60 hours a week usually I was around the 50 hour mark when I was full time .

And what does how many miles for the year of lyft driving have to do with if theyre paying me correctly? its not like it's a flat rate it's changes week to week .

Also you don't take in account that my $1.38 is net which is after all of uber lyft fees, after gasoline , insurance and after maintenance . So I don't need to deduct anything . There were also multiple weeks I got no commission taken out , LYFT PDB, UBER PDB etc... 

Anwyays that's that , I have a very detailed spreadsheet with my earnings, cost of doing business etc....


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Ya I totally misread your post Jimmy. Good stuff!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Jimmy Bernat - I don't doubt your numbers at all. I was trying to flesh out the details. Based on those numbers, I do suspect you are underestimating your actual costs - but not by a ton, and only in the same way most of us do. (and that's just my opinion... you, of course, know your situation - I don't!).

Here's an example of a cost many of us ignore:
We drive a car 50,000 miles in year and have no repair or maintenance costs other than oil changes and washer fluid. So we 'account' for that as being 50,000 miles with only $100 in repairs/maintenance.

The problem is that those 50,000 in a year of driving just took it's toll on your car in several ways:
1. Brakes need replacing soon.
2. Tires now need replacing soon.
3. Front end suspension parts (ball joints, control arms, etc.) now need replacing soon.
4. Timing belt/water-pump are now at 50% or less of remaining life
5. Spark plugs (100,000 mi titanium in most newer cars) are nowt 50% or less of remaining life.​
And that's just normal maintenance - not including anything that is now ready to break or be broken.
There's a couple of thousand or more of unaccounted-for expenses right there.

Then there's the depreciated value of your car. It's no longer a 2 year old car with 30,000 miles on it. It's a 2 year old care with 65,000 miles on it - and that's a real-world cash out of pocket expense.

Jimmy - thank you for sharing your numbers with me and the group here. The more real-world specifics we can compare, the better a handle we all get on the profitability of driving rideshare.



Another Uber Driver said:


> The TNC fares can be lower because TNC drivers need not deadhead as much as cab drivers.


I don't buy that for a second. TNC fares are lower because the companies that set the fares (ie: Uber/Lyft) have zero responsibility and zero need to make sure their drivers are profitable.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I don't buy that for a second. TNC fares are lower because the companies that set the fares (ie: Uber/Lyft) have zero responsibility and zero need to make sure their drivers are profitable.


[

Perhaps I did not explain myself well. The TNC fares can be lower than a cab and the driver can still earn a decent profit because he need not deadhead. Deadheading is useless miles and useless time (READ: money). Here is an oversimplification:

I take a passenger to Dulles Airport in the cab. That is a twenty-eight mile trip from Downtown. I run up twenty-eight paid miles on the trip to Dulles Airport. Once I drop, I can not get into line at the Airport. While there is the possibility of getting a fare back, that possibility is extremely remote and half the time, you must do something illegal to get that trip back to the City. Thus, as a rule, you must deadhead back to Downtown. If it takes forty five minutes out and forty five minutes back, I have twenty-eight useless miles and forty five useless minutes.

If I take an UberX user out to the same Dulles Airport from Downtown I have twenty-eight paid miles and forty five paid minutes. There is a very good possibility that I will receive a trip once I get to Dulles Airport. Even if it takes some time to get the request, there is a place for me to wait, so while I have the useless time, I do not have the useless miles (and the concomitant uncompensated wear and tear on my vehicle). If I choose not to wait, I can travel, say fourteen miles to a suburb and receive a trip there. Thus, I have cut my useless time and useless miles in half.

Do be aware that I am not now, nor have I ever (nor will I ever) state that TNC fares should be what they are now, in most markets, should be half of cab or limousine fares or should be substantially less. They can, however, be somewhat less. There must be something to offset the disadvantages of using a TNC over using a cab. One would be availability. While that is already there, you must have more than that. Cost is another. The per-mile in the Capital Of Your Nation is two dollars sixteen. You could price TNCs (UberX or Regular Lyft) at one dollar seventy to one dollar eighty the mile and: 1) people would still use the service and 2) the driver could turn the same, or better, profit than a cab driver.

At those rates, you might even be able to eliminate surge pricing. Another thing that might be necessary is to split off Uber Pool/Lyft Line and set the bar lower for drivers and vehicles on those platforms. Let those who want the cheap way out pay the consequences of taking the cheap way out of it. The Uber and Lyft can let the UberX/XL/Select/Black or Lyft/Lyft Premium drivers opt in and out of Uber Pool/Lyft Line as appropriate or as they wish. In short, if you get tired of sitting there waiting for a regular Lyft or UberX trip, you can opt in to Uber Pool/Lyft Line if you are bored. If later you decide to opt back out, you simply press a button and it shuts off the U-Pool/LL. This way, the TNCs can attract everyone from the bus riders to the limousine riders and in-between.[/user]


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The TNC fares can be lower than a cab and the driver can still earn a decent profit because he need not deadhead.


I hear you - I just don't buy it for a minute... for the reasons I stated. Not all TNC drivers 'can earn a decent profit' because not all TNC drivers have the same expenses - and as I said... unless you'r a TNC driver in NYC (or someplace similar), ALL TNC drivers have deadhead miles that erode their earnings. Yes, some more than others - but I am 100% convinced that just as most TNC drivers underestimate their actual costs, they also underestimate their unpaid driving miles. (and again, ymmv)


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> unless you'r a TNC driver in NYC (or someplace similar),
> 
> (and again, ymmv)


While I would hardly call the Capital of Your Nation similar to New York City, there might be something to that statement that might apply even here in that the suburbs here have many requests as well as more than a few in the exurbs. Still, we are dealing with a population of something close to six million for the Washington Metropolitan Area versus Eight million for New York City, alone and twenty million for its Metropolitan Area. I do not have comparative figures for visitors and those who go for business purposes. Here, the drivers can work all three jurisdictions, while I am not sure that New York City TNC drivers can work in Connecticut or Jersey or even the New York Suburbs.

Mine does vary, literally and figuratively. If UberX paid one dollar seventy five the mile, I could run at least as much as I do in the cab, perhaps more, with little effort. As it is, I can do it on these horrid base rates, but I must work for it and get more than a few breaks here and there. I do have the added advantage of knowing what I am doing, here. The drivers here avoid Downtown or will deadhead out of it back to the suburbs. Years of bumping kerbs Downtown have taught me the traffic patterns and the best routes. Further, when there is a pop-up hazard, I know how to respond to it.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The drivers here avoid Downtown or will deadhead out of it back to the suburbs.


yep. deahead.


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