# Uber not being upfront about upfront fares, drivers say



## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/uber-drivers-upfront-fares-1.3973342








Uber driver John Peart says that he's not being paid properly for certain trips.

It's no secret that only a portion of what you pay for an Uber ride makes it to your driver.

Uber pockets 25 per cent of each fare as well as the flat $2.50 "booking fee" it charges every rider.

But Uber drivers are complaining that, even after those deductions are accounted for, they're still being shortchanged on some trips.









A screen shot of a recent fare settlement between Uber and driver Syed Ghaffoor. Uber eventually paid what Ghaffoor was owed, but he says the company provided no explanation for the mistake. (Syed Ghaffoor)

"I feel I'm being nickeled and dimed," Uber driver John Peart said in an interview with CBC Toronto.

In most cases, it's actually nothing more than a few nickels and dimes that drivers allege they're being denied, but they say it adds up.

"If you keep ignoring this you're probably getting robbed $10 to $15 a day," another Uber driver, Syed Ghaffoor, said.

In a statement, Susie Heath, spokesperson for Uber Canada, said "In terms of driver payments, earnings are based on a per-mile, per-minute rate as they've always been."

Drivers say that's the problem: they're being paid based on the actual time and distance of a trip while customers are billed based on an estimate.

*Upfront fares*
Last fall, Uber introduced upfront fares.

Under the new system, Uber customers agree to pay a fare calculated in advance, based on distance, estimated time, traffic conditions and demand.

"No surprises. No math" is how the ride-sharing company announced the change, which now means customers know the full cost of a trip before they even get in the car.

But drivers say that because they're still paid based on the actual distance and time of a trip, small discrepancies can arise.

With lighter than expected traffic or a shortcut, drivers say it's sometimes possible for a trip to take less time and distance than originally predicted by Uber.

The result, it's alleged, is that drivers are paid for the shorter trip, customers are billed for the original estimate, and Uber keeps the difference.

"It's very common for me," Ghaffoor said. "On the flip side, when a driver is stuck in traffic and the trip takes longer, Uber doesn't pay more."

*'It's hard to remember every bloody drive'*
Uber has a fare review system drivers can use when they believe they aren't getting paid enough.

According to those who've spoken with CBC Toronto, the system works and they get what they're owed, but it's a lot of effort.

"There are adjustments, but they're hard to figure out," Peart said. "You have to go back to your logs and really think about each drive. And if you've had a busy night, it's hard to remember every bloody drive."

Ghaffoor says fixing a fare discrepancy of a few dollars or less requires exchanging several emails with Uber staff and providing specific details about the trip.

"It's painstaking," he said.

Uber spokesperson Suzie Heath says that the upfront fare system provides more clarity for customers and drivers are paid fairly.

"We always work hard to ensure consistent driver earnings," Heath said in a statement.


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## Drive777 (Jan 23, 2015)

The upfront fare gimmick isn't just a suspicion, it's what Uber says on the fare page of every city they're in....

_"Your fare will be the price presented before the trip or based on the rates above."_

When Uber charges more they rip off riders by charging more than their own published rates, and defraud drivers by pocketing the difference.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Drive777 said:


> The upfront fare gimmick isn't just a suspicion, it's what Uber says on the fare page of every city they're in....
> 
> _"Your fare will be the price presented before the trip or based on the rates above."_
> 
> When Uber charges more they rip off riders by charging more than their own published rates, and defraud drivers by pocketing the difference.


It's outright fruad. No doubt.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Robot cars won't mind being robbed.


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## redd38 (May 22, 2015)

I feel like this could be the lynchpin for the employee vs contractor debate. What's supposed to be happening is that the PAX pays the driver the fare and the driver gives Uber a commission from the fare. That makes us contractors. But with Uber keeping the extra few cents from their over estimation it shows that the PAX pays Uber the fare and Uber pays the driver out of the fare. That makes us employees.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

redd38 said:


> I feel like this could be the lynchpin for the employee vs contractor debate. What's supposed to be happening is that the PAX pays the driver the fare and the driver gives Uber a commission from the fare. That makes us contractors. But with Uber keeping the extra few cents from their over estimation it shows that the PAX pays Uber the fare and Uber pays the driver out of the fare. That makes us employees.


You mean extra $5.00- $10.00


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## redd38 (May 22, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> You mean extra $5.00- $10.00


Well if you're getting trips big enough to be off by $5-$10 then good for you.


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

Its time for another revolution against the king. The people should rise up against the Better Fraudious Buisness Bureau


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

BurgerTiime said:


> http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/uber-drivers-upfront-fares-1.3973342
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Uber is one giant poop stain on the underwear of life.


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## d0n (Oct 16, 2016)

So a big news exposé about their passenger overcharge and driver theft will ignite the court cases and more boycotts, way to go Travis, make sure there is some company left for when Trump comes after you, alpha's hate to pick on the weakened.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

John Peart should have been a great drummer, like his brother Neil.


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## WestSubDriver (Jul 1, 2016)

I've also experienced that navigation that they use for the quote has a preference for expressways/tollway even if there is a shorter surface street route arriving with similar ETA.  Happens to me on airport runs around here at off-peak times. Have lived here for thirty years so know the roads and traffic patterns pretty well. Tested it the other day by taking a surface street route vs the tollway that the navigation wanted me to take. This avoided both tolls that rider would have to pay and cut 5-6 miles from the route while arriving at the same time as the tollway route would have taken. I knew I was only screwing myself but promptly filed fare review and within only a couple of exchanges was handed another $7 from Uber for the trip restoring my fare back to the "normal" longer route.


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## DaveCraige (Feb 11, 2016)

yea we are beginning to hear many reports of the sleezy "double fare"

here is a pic to illustrate:


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## junctionator (Feb 28, 2017)

DaveCraige said:


> yea we are beginning to hear many reports of the sleezy "double fare"
> 
> here is a pic to illustrate:


Actually, the driver in your example sees $7.70 as the "Fare" presumably that the rider paid. 
So the rider paid $2.37 more than the driver thinks the rider paid. 
That's a whopping 30% bump.

I just dropped off a rider who told me he was quoted "Over $12" as his cost.
Uber reported to me that the rider's "Fare" was $10.12. 
So in my case, UBER takes an extra 20% that the driver doesn't see.

The rider is happy and doesn't know anything sketchy is going on.

This seems to me to be rather HUGE. 20%-30% multiplied by tens or hundreds of thousand rides per day in North America alone adds up to lots of money pretty fast.


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## YourPrivateDriver (Jul 5, 2016)

junctionator said:


> Actually, the driver in your example sees $7.70 as the "Fare" presumably that the rider paid.
> So the rider paid $2.37 more than the driver thinks the rider paid.
> That's a whopping 30% bump.
> 
> ...


The driver doesn't see the Safe Rider Fee. Uber hides that from drivers now so you have to take off the fare that you got paid.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

https://uberpeople.net/threads/an-uber-driver-files-class-action-suit-for-skimming-pay.143429/


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