# rating the rider affects your own rating



## sammy44 (Nov 17, 2014)

for my 1st 200 trips, i gave automatic 5 stars to riders. i thought there was no reason otherwise. even though i was new and obviously not familiar with many streets, and i dont offer water/mint and dont small talk or greet, my rating was 4.83.

then i discover that i can rate them lower! lol. my rating has been dropping ever since!

i think quite of few of the riders only rate after they see how you rate them.


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

Driver 42 said:


> Passengers CANNOT see their rating unless a driver shows it to them. I only have had one passenger ask me what their rating was -- and I told her I didn't know. Some passengers ask me for 5Stars which makes me inclined to give them one less star than I was already going to rate them, since the ones who have asked always are the ones have kept me waiting, were weird, and were generally pains in the keester.
> 
> Don't you use the passenger app as a driver? Look at the pax app. It does not show a rating anywhere in the app.
> Many passengers are not even aware that they CAN be rated by drivers


+1


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## Jay2dresq (Oct 1, 2014)

They never see what I rate them. I don't end trip until they are out of the car, and the doors are closed.


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## marketmark (Dec 2, 2014)

I tell everyone that asks me that they have 4.9 stars and they are one of the better passengers I have gotten to spend time with.


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## jaymaxx44 (Sep 19, 2014)

marketmark said:


> I tell everyone that asks me that they have 4.9 stars and they are one of the better passengers I have gotten to spend time with.


LOL, I like that.......


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

I rate all my passengers 5 stars. As they exit my car, my standard comment is, "Dude/ma'am, I'm giving you five stars because you totally rock." Maybe that's why I have a 4.97 rating.


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

jaymaxx44 said:


> LOL, I like that.......


haha.. and I like that you like it 

If you drive in "LA" the best way to get 5star ratings is to focus on the WEHO area..

Even if your rider was a terrible guy and you fear they might just give you 4 stars..
*A nice and slow ******* usually changes their weird minds.*

But I can't give out any more free waters because I need it to gargle myself...

I remember the good old time *when a handjob was already a guarantee for 5stars.*
but we spoiled them and keep spoiling them (**** spotify!)

I will *quit driving Uber BEFORE a rider asks me* to get something out of the trunk while he stands behind me..
I am doing a lot but that is not gonna happen !

rather dying standing tall !


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## krazydrive (Nov 18, 2014)

Don't give every pax 5stars just because. If your not outside when i arrive automatic 3, then the longer i wait the lower it goes.When I tell pax they have a low rating they get really nervous and are really concerned. I then tell them if they're rating gets to low they will get deactivated. That makes them be more respectful and be outside when we arrive. If you tell them they have 5stars they will continue to make driver's wait and not give a shit about us.


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

that's how it's done correctly !

bravo krazy !


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## sammy44 (Nov 17, 2014)

I have opened my trunk (using remote) about 30 times. Only once a woman put her 2 little bags on the ground and ask me to put them in. What I should have done is never to get out of my car.

The guy who ordered me to "turn down the radio" said "thank you sir" got out of the car got luggage and closed the trunk all by himself. He was not arrogant enough to leave the trunk open.


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

HEY GUYS WE FINALLY FOUND THE DRIVER WHO SPOILED THE PAX !



Desert Driver said:


> I rate all my passengers 5 stars. As they exit my car, my standard comment is, "Dude/ma'am, I'm giving you five stars because you totally rock." Maybe that's why I have a 4.97 rating.


lol...  no offense but I personally don't tell them what I will rate them with a few exceptions of course..
If they were "just normal" but still ok and they ask me for 5stars I automatically rate them 1 Star less.
I personally never ask to rate me 5 because I don't even care about rating.

I just do my job as I would do it like I was still driving a taxi with no rating system
and I am currently at 4.86 but I believe that's only because I had some disrespectful idiots and did not accept people
touching my radio buttons (volume up) WITHOUT prior asking for permission.. if they ask it's ok
And I am also refusing fast food runs. I made some exceptions because a $20 dollar bill on top of the fare sometimes changes my mind.

*my statement :
People will not respect you because you kiss their butts..*


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## sammy44 (Nov 17, 2014)

[QUOTE="No-tippers-suck, post: !
refuse fast food run
[/QUOTE]

Dang. How do you do that?


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

krazydrive said:


> Don't give every pax 5stars just because. If your not outside when i arrive automatic 3, then the longer i wait the lower it goes.When I tell pax they have a low rating they get really nervous and are really concerned. I then tell them if they're rating gets to low they will get deactivated. That makes them be more respectful and be outside when we arrive. If you tell them they have 5stars they will continue to make driver's wait and not give a shit about us.


THREAD # 9/ TRAVIS BICKEL: So how has
your seemingly successful manipulation
of PAX worked for YOUR driver rating?
How many months of Ubering under
your belt?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

krazydrive said:


> Don't give every pax 5stars just because. If your not outside when i arrive automatic 3, then the longer i wait the lower it goes.When I tell pax they have a low rating they get really nervous and are really concerned. I then tell them if they're rating gets to low they will get deactivated. That makes them be more respectful and be outside when we arrive. If you tell them they have 5stars they will continue to make driver's wait and not give a shit about us.


Here's the deal, though. The whole driver/rider system is so statistically flawed that it truly is meaningless. The problem, however, is that Uber is making kill/keep decisions based on that flawed system for BOTH drivers and paxs. (Remember, you can't mix an interval scale with an ordinal scale and still have a statistically valid rating system.) So, given that we drivers and paxs are being subjected to such a horrible, invalid instrument and methodology, the only viable action (pragmatically speaking) is for drivers and paxs to rate everyone a 5, even if one or the other is a ******bag.

I had a pax last night (Stephen) who recently earned his Masters in Econ. We got to talking about the Uber rating system. I asked him if he understood statistics, sampling, and statistical methodology. He let out a groan and said, "Oh, god, don't remind me. I've done more stats than I care to recall."

So, I explained the Uber rating system to him and he exclaimed, "Who was the idiot who designed an interval scale for the paxs to rate drivers, and then thought that an ordinal scale to evaluate overall driver performance was a good idea?"

So, after our conversation Stephen informed me that he will be rating ALL his drivers 5 stars going forward, even the ones who can't speak English, get lost, and have smelly cars. He understood perfectly that trying to give any sort of meaningful evaluation under a horribly designed system is impossible and pointless.

I make it a habit to educate my paxs about the rating system and how flawed it is. Every pax I've ever talked to about the rating system is appalled that a rating of 4 stars means *fire this driver immediately*, since the drivers are rated on an ordinal scale and the paxs are presented with an interval rating scale. But I am a former teacher so I am comfortable with explaining technical concepts to a non-technical audience.

Uber on, my fellow road warriors, and keep educating your paxs about rating. I do and I was able to move from 4.8 to 4.95 last night.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> The problem, however, is that Uber is making kill/keep decisions based on that flawed system for BOTH drivers and paxs.


How does Uber use the rating system to kill/keep passengers? I believe you are incorrect and Uber would keep a 1* customer as long as their credit card was still good.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Former Yellow Driver said:


> How does Uber use the rating system to kill/keep passengers? I believe you are incorrect and Uber would keep a 1* customer as long as their credit card was still good.


yeah, you may be right. After all, who gives a shit what the passenger rating is?


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## johnny danger (Nov 4, 2014)

Hey their, Desert Boy..... Did you run home and rub one out when you increased your rating??? If I had you for a driver I'd give you 5 stars but I would beg you to drive me off a ****ing cliff.....


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

johnny danger said:


> Hey their, Desert Boy..... Did you run home and rub one out when you increased your rating??? If I had you for a driver I'd give you 5 stars but I would beg you to drive me off a ****ing cliff.....


Nah, I didn't rub one out when I got the 4.95. See, I understand that the rating system is flawed and isn't anywhere close to being statistically sound, so I don't take any pride or flattery in the value

So, how ya been? I always enjoy hearing from you. Your comments are always, shall we say, unique and interesting.

For the record, I'd never drive you off a cliff. My car and my life are too valuable. I could, however, be convinced to shove an ice pick through your forehead. Would that suffice?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> HEY GUYS WE FINALLY FOUND THE DRIVER WHO SPOILED THE PAX !
> 
> lol...  no offense but I personally don't tell them what I will rate them with a few exceptions of course..
> If they were "just normal" but still ok and they ask me for 5stars I automatically rate them 1 Star less.
> ...


You missed the point. There's no butt-kissing going on here. The current rating system is so horribly flawed from a statistical point of view, that it is impossible to generate any meaningful information from it. Uber likely knows this but it isn't in any great hurry to change it. Ergo, the most pragmatic thing for paxs and drivers to do is rate everyone 5 stars regardless of how anyone actually feel. This is purely a self-preservation technique in a flawed system that is being used to make keep/kill decisions on drivers. I raised my driver rating this weekend from 4.8 to 4.95 using my technique. I also educated quite a few of my paxs on the flawed rating system.

Anything else I can clear up for you?


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

Dear Desert Driver, actually you didn't clear up anything to me so far.
I just want to remind you about your prior statement :



Desert Driver said:


> I rate all my passengers 5 stars. As they exit my car, my standard comment is, "Dude/ma'am, I'm giving you five stars because you totally rock." Maybe that's why I have a 4.97 rating.


So, you're saying that you rate EVERYBODY a 5star correct?
What about those who are disrespectful to you?
People that pull up your volume, eat, drink and smoke in your car.
People that try to sneak in with 5 or more passengers?
People that make you wait forever until they come out and don't tip for the long wait?

Do not please tell me that you never had any of those explained situations while driving.

So just tell me how did you rate those type of PAX ???

Anyways in my eyes, you are begging for 5stars and that is actually what Uber doesn't want you to do.
Just get the job done and don't beg, ask or buttkiss anybody for a good rating. (I didn't say you buttkissed ok?)

I had a guy last Saturday he was a 5star but honestly he didn't really act 5 Stars..
As we arrived he looked at my Uber App and said you will give me 5 Stars right?
And he was kinda waiting to see if I did it..

I don't appreciate people giving me that kind of pressure and I said are you kidding me?
This should be done anonymous, I'm not ending the ride as long you still sit in my car.

**** this idiot, I gave him 4Stars for begging.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> Dear Desert Driver, actually you didn't clear up anything to me so far.
> I just want to remind you about your prior statement :
> 
> So, you're saying that you rate EVERYBODY a 5star correct?
> ...


Again, you're missing the larger point. The current rating system is statistically flawed, so the values generated from it are meaningless. However, Uber makes keep/kill decisions based on those meaningless numbers. Ergo, the pragmatic approach is for drivers and paxs alike to rate with only 5 stars so every party stays happy and employed. This approach also gives Uber a nice warm, fuzzy feeling.

Now, to address your assumptions about my driving experience...

I'm not begging for anything. I simply educate my paxs about the statistically flawed rating system Uber uses.
I've not yet had a pax treat me disrespectfully. A warm greeting and a hearty handshake go a long way. Yes, I've had my share of surly drunks, but they were just silly and obnoxious. Given my size and look, people don't aren't inclined to **** with me. (6' 3", 225 pounds, shaved head, full Western American moustache.)
No one has ever tried to smoke in my car. My car is 7 years old and still has the new car smell. People understand why that is.
People are free to eat in my car but not while I'm driving. If they wish to finish their chow, I simply start the trip. Then I roll when they're done chowing down. Never been a problem.
People are free to drink in my car as long as the beverages are not alcoholic. I simply explain that such is the law in this state and as the driver of the vehicle I am expected to make sure all paxs obey such laws. Never been a problem.
My car is 5-passenger car with seating and safety belts for five. If more than four people try to get in, I simply tell them that state law requires a safety belt for each passenger and that they are free to contact Uber SUV or second UberX car. Once the law and logistics are explained, never been a problem.
Passengers are not free to touch my radio. They are free to request a volume adjust or a station change. I keep the remote near my left hand so paxs have no access. Never been a problem.
When I arrive at pickup, I call or text pax if pax isn't in sight. After one minute of wait I send a text stating "60 seconds to beginning of trip." After 60 seconds, I start the trip. My total uncompensated wait time never exceeds 120 seconds. Paxs understand and appreciate timeliness.
I would never beg for a rating. I merely play fair; explain the flawed rating system; provide a pleasant, professional ride; and engage in snappy banter on pretty much any topic the pax wishes to discuss.

OK, now I think we have your questions all straightened out. Let me know if you'd like further clarification or advice. I'm here to help, after all.

DD


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## Long time Nyc cab driver (Dec 12, 2014)

Driver 42 said:


> Passengers CANNOT see their rating unless a driver shows it to them. I only have had one passenger ask me what their rating was -- and I told her I didn't know. Some passengers ask me for 5Stars which makes me inclined to give them one less star than I was already going to rate them, since the ones who have asked always were the ones that kept me waiting, were weird, and were generally pains in the keester.
> 
> Don't you use the passenger app as a driver? Look at the pax app. It does not show a rating anywhere in the app.
> Many passengers are not even aware that they CAN be rated by drivers


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## Long time Nyc cab driver (Dec 12, 2014)

Driver 42 said:


> Passengers CANNOT see their rating unless a driver shows it to them. I only have had one passenger ask me what their rating was -- and I told her I didn't know. Some passengers ask me for 5Stars which makes me inclined to give them one less star than I was already going to rate them, since the ones who have asked always were the ones that kept me waiting, were weird, and were generally pains in the keester.
> 
> Don't you use the passenger app as a driver? Look at the pax app. It does not show a rating anywhere in the app.
> Many passengers are not even aware that they CAN be rated by drivers


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## Long time Nyc cab driver (Dec 12, 2014)

*Are you sure the passenger can't see his ratings? I agree with the Op, it seems like when you give a bad rating they retaliate by giving you a bad rating.
I have uber on my personal phone, I don't see a rating, but then again, I've never ordered a car.*


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

@Desertdriver

seems like you edited your prior post.. In my email notification I had a much more detailed response and now I'm logged in and see it's much shorter.

anyways, you took the time to "clarify"
*you did it in a great and very respectful way, so I want to appreciate your effort and time and respond to your message as well.*

First of all I didn't mean the whole "buttkissing" words disrespectful towards you if that was understood negative then your response shows your high attitude
and* I will have to apologize*, but in fact I didn't mean to attack you brother.
It's just like that I personally wouldn't do it that way but everybody has it's own style.

In your direct response you said that you never had a negative experience so I say you have just been very very lucky, nothing else !
Of course you're (from what I can read so far) a great guy and people seem to like you, that's why I will re-name your username from
"deSertdriver" to deSSertdriver" haha.. you only got the good stuff obviously.

What I do different than you is that I'm not up to fix the broken and flawful rating system.
*If any PAX is pissed that they can't drink alcohol or eat their Pizza in my car, that I won't allow them to smoke or do drugs in my car,
and also not take 5-6 pax, then they can give me whatever rating they want and all I will do is send a message to Uber support about what has happened and that I will not accept disrespect, unsafe or unlawful situations in my car.*


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> *Are you sure the passenger can't see his ratings? I agree with the Op, it seems like when you give a bad rating they retaliate by giving you a bad rating.
> I have uber on my personal phone, I don't see a rating, but then again, I've never ordered a car.*


Play it safe, like I do. Explain to your paxs how the current rating system is statistically flawed and is severely tilted against the drivers. Then rate ALL your passengers with 5 stars. Pragmatically speaking, that's the safest thing to do. And don't be shy about telling them you're giving them a 5. Then ACTUALLY give them the 5. Even if the pax was a total ******bag, give 5 stars. The data from the rating system is horribly flawed from a statistical point of view anyway, so who cares if you give a dweeb a tasty score? It means nothing. But the important angle is that you get a 5 star rating out of your pax in return. As currently designed, the driver rating system is horribly flawed and produces meaningless results. However, Uber is making keep/kill decisions passed on the flawed data, so why not do what you can to make sure the numbers fall your way? I started with this approach in earnest this weekend and I moved from 4.7 to 4.95. It's amazing what you can accomplish if you simply take the time to educate people.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> @Desertdriver
> 
> seems like you edited your prior post.. In my email notification I had a much more detailed response and now I'm logged in and see it's much shorter.
> 
> ...


I certainly understand your position now. And if a pax actually got testy with me, I may very well find myself in a tough situation as you suggested. But I'd still give the pax a 5 only because I understand that the number is meaningless from an objective, statistical point of view. I am on a mission to help Uber fix a really bad rating system. Both my wife and I have a pretty firm background in statistics and we found the rating system nothing short of appalling when I started driving for Uber one month ago. We've concluded that of all the skill and talent possessed by the Uber founders, there is not a statistician in the bunch. So, I have taken it upon myself to educate Uber on the problem of mixing an interval scale with an ordinal scale and then believing that a valid assessment methodology is in place. I have fought and won much larger battles than this in my career. Again, education goes a long way. I may be a faceless, nameless driver in the Uber landscape, but I am beginning to get the attention of the corporate folks and I'm sure I'll be having a discussion with someone about proper statistical design before the end of Q1 2015.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

so are we double sure the pax cannot see their own rating?


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

No they can not 100% not..

You can rate them a 1Star if they deserved it and they will have no idea what you gave them.

If you have an idiot play nice and say hey you're an awesome guy I give you 5 Stars..
as he leaves your car **** up his rating (if he deserves it..)

In the end we are now so desperate and hungry that even Pax with a 1.2 Star rating will still get rides home..
We shouldn't pick them up actually..


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> so are we double sure the pax cannot see their own rating?


The pax will NEVER see how you rated, unless he watches you do it on your phone. However, given how horribly flawed and statistically invalid the rating system is, your best bet is to rate all riders 5 stars and to also tell them you're rating them 5 stars. Given how disastrously flawed the rating system is, your only goal is to collect as many fives as you can. That's how I moved from 4.8 to 4.95 this past weekend. Just educate your passengers.

See, once a pax understands that a 4 is really saying "fire this driver immediately," he/she will be far less inclined to give you anything but a 5.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> haha.. and I like that you like it
> 
> If you drive in "LA" the best way to get 5star ratings is to focus on the WEHO area..
> 
> ...


Hey, did you get a nastygram from the mod? Man, some people have no sense of hunor, am I right?


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

You're right we should never loose our humor..

BUT if you continue telling drivers to give "all" pax 5 stars I will personally make a trip to the desert 

You explained that you "never" had a bad experience and I agree if someone's drunk that doesn't mean to give them a lower rating.
"most" drunk but respectful riders will get 5 stars with me

but "ALL" sober and disrespectful pax are looking into a nice and shiny "1" 

I think it's just about being honest to ourselves.. think in the pax's shoes...
would you mess up another guy's car with your trash or make him wait as you don't respect that he just tries to make his living and you "stole" another 15minutes of his time without paying for it?

Well from your former post where you said you start the ride without the passenger in car..
that's actually what Uber doesn't want us to do and most likely it might result sooner or later in some less good ratings for you.
BUT THE MAIN THING ABOUT IT : you loose the opportunity to cancel the ride if needed.

just saying..


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## Jay2dresq (Oct 1, 2014)

I agree on that point. If you start the trip early, you can't cancel if the need arises. However, from the sound of it you're not canceling and driving when obvious problems arise before the client gets in your car.


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

that's true of course. but it helps you determining for example

- how many Pax will try to sneak in your car (more than 4 I cancel immediately and say I already got a new ride)
- too much drunk people or people with Food or red cups.. (I even don't drive them if they dump them because still 5Stars for you??)

and many other situations..


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> You're right we should never loose our humor..
> 
> BUT if you continue telling drivers to give "all" pax 5 stars I will personally make a trip to the desert
> 
> ...


The point is, the rating system is statistically flawed, yet Uber makes keep/kill decisions based on a flawed design. Ergo, as drivers our objective is to educate our riders and draw as many fives as possible. And if that means giving a ******bag a 5 in exchange for a 5, why not? It's the only real defense we have for for such a poorly designed performance assessment system. But not to worry, I'm educating Uber mom about proper statistical design.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> You're right we should never loose our humor..
> 
> BUT if you continue telling drivers to give "all" pax 5 stars I will personally make a trip to the desert
> 
> ...


You can cancel a trip after it has started. Just hit the END TRIP button, pull over, and politely say, "Get the phuque outta my metrocruiser, chum!"


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

I still didn't get "why" you would need to give a "not 5Star rider" a 5 so you get a 5 from him??

He doesn't even see what you gave him..

Rather I rate him whatever I believe is a fair rating for him, it doesn't affect how he rates me.
I'm currently at 4.86 and I gave a few 1 and 3 stars last weekend..


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> You can cancel a trip after it has started. Just hit the END TRIP button, pull over, and politely say, "Get the phuque outta my metrocruiser, chum!"


lol.. funny but you see it's not "cancelling" it's ending a ride and now they can rate you..
If you don't start a ride they can do nothing at all..


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## jsixis (Dec 14, 2014)

I'm over 1000 trips and only twice have I not given out 5 stars. Those 2 times were 1's for dropping a pin miles from where they actually were and expecting me to come pick them up. 
When I arrive at the pin I hit arrive. If they are not there I call, once I call and they answer I hit start trip.
It is only 28 cents a minute sitting still here in cowlumbus


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

jsixis said:


> I'm over 1000 trips and only twice have I not given out 5 stars. Those 2 times were 1's for dropping a pin miles from where they actually were and expecting me to come pick them up.


Evidently you chose to pick them up anyway.....despite the fact they were miles from the pin and they "expected" it?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> lol.. funny but you see it's not "cancelling" it's ending a ride and now they can rate you..
> If you don't start a ride they can do nothing at all..


True. But when you toss a ******bag out of your metrocruiser, you just contact Uber the next day, explain what happened, and tell them to purge the rating. That way, the one star doesn't hurt your score and you still collect the fare up until the time you tossed the turds out.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> I still didn't get "why" you would need to give a "not 5Star rider" a 5 so you get a 5 from him??
> 
> He doesn't even see what you gave him..
> 
> ...


You're missing the point again. The rating system is so horribly flawed statistically that the numbers are truly meaningless in any objective sense. So, why are we trying to make rational sense of a rating system that does not have a rational basis? You see, our paxs are rating us on an interval scale. But Uber is making its keep/kill decisions for drivers on an ordinal scale. Ask anyone who has taken a semester of stats and you learn that _you can't mix scales in a single evaluation design! 
_
As the design methodology is currently developed Uber could just as well tell you, "Last week your driver rating was hubcap. This week you've moved up to blueberry. Congratulations! Uber is glad to have you as a partner."

See how ridiculous that sounds? Well, that's exactly where the rating system is right now. So, rating everyone a 5 is like handing out Monopoly money on the street corner and believing you're helping people. _It doesn't friggin' matter!_


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## UberOne (Oct 31, 2014)

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> *Are you sure the passenger can't see his ratings? I agree with the Op, it seems like when you give a bad rating they retaliate by giving you a bad rating.
> I have uber on my personal phone, I don't see a rating, but then again, I've never ordered a car.*


Wow.. the matter of the fact is, and without doubt that, the pax cannot see or know what their overall rating is, nor will they have any personal access to how each driver rated them. End of argument.. this thread should have been done a long time ago.

Also, it's not a conspiracy that you will get rated lower when you rate a pax lower since a perceptibly bad ride experience goes both ways!


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

umm... deserdriver???
So I am the one to miss the point again?

If it doesn't matter what rating you give them, why don't you just give them 1Star then, even if they were really great people?
I continue rating them fair = *1Star for very bad people - 3Star for bad Apples and 5Stars for simply nice people*
occasionally I will give 4Stars if I had to wait too long and they did not cover it with a tip.

*I hope I can help by warning my fellow drivers* by rating "*bad people* *bad and good people "good"*

They still get rides even with a 1.2 rating from us.. but only from those drivers who are that desperate about money to give them a ride.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Here's the deal, though. The whole driver/rider system is so statistically flawed that it truly is meaningless. The problem, however, is that Uber is making kill/keep decisions based on that flawed system for BOTH drivers and paxs. (Remember, you can't mix an interval scale with an ordinal scale and still have a statistically valid rating system.) So, given that we drivers and paxs are being subjected to such a horrible, invalid instrument and methodology, the only viable action (pragmatically speaking) is for drivers and paxs to rate everyone a 5, even if one or the other is a ******bag.
> 
> I had a pax last night (Stephen) who recently earned his Masters in Econ. We got to talking about the Uber rating system. I asked him if he understood statistics, sampling, and statistical methodology. He let out a groan and said, "Oh, god, don't remind me. I've done more stats than I care to recall."
> 
> ...


If you moved from 4.8 to 4.95 overall in 1 night, you don't drive very much at all considering that your rating is based on the average of your last 500 rides. Also, I highly doubt that Uber deactivates many pax accounts as I have seen many with sub 4.0 ratings.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

RideshareGuru said:


> If you moved from 4.8 to 4.95 overall in 1 night, you don't drive very much at all considering that your rating is based on the average of your last 500 rides. Also, I highly doubt that Uber deactivates many pax accounts as I have seen many with sub 4.0 ratings.


Yeah, the math works. I was busy as hell Friday and Saturday. Like you, I was surprised, but I wish I could say I was delighted. See, since I know the rating numbers are meaningless in any objective sense, I could take no pride or flattery in the increased values. Uber will eventually learn that you cannot mix an interval scale with an ordinal scale and still have a valid assessment tool. Statistics 210, bay-beeeee.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

No-tippers-suck said:


> umm... deserdriver???
> So I am the one to miss the point again?
> 
> If it doesn't matter what rating you give them, why don't you just give them 1Star then, even if they were really great people?
> ...


Ya know, I think maybe if you had a firmer grounding in Stats this would be making more sense to you. I've broken it down as simply and as completely as I can. Maybe a community college course would be a better route for you at this point. Statistics is a difficult mathematical science to grasp at first, but when it finally clicks it truly is fascinating.

What you're not grasping here, tip, is that the rating system is so flawed, there is no "good" and there is no "bad" in any empirical sense. You're allowing yourself to trip over your own pride, anger, and ego for no good reason. Remember, when working in mathematics, always remain objective.


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## sammy44 (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Yeah, the math works. I was busy as hell Friday and Saturday. Like you, I was surprised, but I wish I could say I was delighted. See, since I know the rating numbers are meaningless in any objective sense, I could take no pride or flattery in the increased values. Uber will eventually learn that you cannot mix an interval scale with an ordinal scale and still have a valid assessment tool. Statistics 210, bay-beeeee.


how is that a mix of the scales? 
logically flawed: you educate riders, and get immediate results? how?
big jump in rating overnight means just 1 thing as the other poster mentioned - not a lot of trips.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Yeah, the math works. I was busy as hell Friday and Saturday. Like you, I was surprised, but I wish I could say I was delighted. See, since I know the rating numbers are meaningless in any objective sense, I could take no pride or flattery in the increased values. Uber will eventually learn that you cannot mix an interval scale with an ordinal scale and still have a valid assessment tool. Statistics 210, bay-beeeee.


Dude, people know you're lying already. When you're in a hole trying to get out; step one is to stop digging.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

RideshareGuru said:


> Dude, people know you're lying already. When you're in a hole trying to get out; step one is to stop digging.


What could I possibly be lying about? Statistically, the rating system is flawed. Go ahead, prove me wrong. How how and where is it proper and appropriate to mix an ordinal scale with and interval scale? C'mon tell us.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> What could I possibly be lying about? Statistically, the rating system is flawed. Go ahead, prove me wrong. How how and where it is proper and appropriate to mix an ordinal scale with and interval scale? C'mon tell us.


Your ratings jump and then your insistance that you made it happen in one night while having a lot of rides under your belt. Everyone knows the rating system is flawed, that's not news to anyone. Let's do some basic math. Assume you only had 100 rides with your 4.8 rating and you did 20 5-star rides in one night, taking nothing under a 5. This also assumes that all of your riders rated you (something that doesn't happen often). At the end of the night, you'd only have a 4.88. It would take over 100 rides to bring your rating up to a 4.95, and that's if you only had 100 rides going into that night. So, again, YOU ARE A DIRTY LIAR. People can do math.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

sammy44 said:


> how is that a mix of the scales?
> logically flawed: you educate riders, and get immediate results? how?
> big jump in rating overnight means just 1 thing as the other poster mentioned - not a lot of trips.


OK. let's go over this one more time. This should just be a review of the first Statistics class you took as a sophomore in college. When the pax rates the driver, he can select from one to five stars. There are no partial stars. That is an interval scale. However, when Uber makes its keep/kill decision for drivers, we're told the threshold is 4.6 stars. Ergo, Uber is using an ordinal scale. Extrapolating further, any time a pax rates a driver four stars, that is telling Uber _fire this driver immediately_. You see, Uber is taking interval data and attempting to apply it to an ordinal scale. That is a violation of proper statistical methodology. Again, go back to your first Stats class and you'll see this was discussed in the first several weeks of class. Uber can clear this methodological mess up by allowing paxs to rate drivers using the same ordinal scale that it uses to makes its keep/kill decisions. Simply put, paxs need to be presented with the granularity of scale that Uber is applying to us drivers. In order to be a statistically valid tool. paxs need to be able to rate using the following ordinals: 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6, 1.7,...4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4, 4.5, 4.6, 4.7, 4.8, 4.9, 5.0 stars.

You may want to print this out and keep it with you when you drive so that you can educate your paxs and boost your overall rating the way I have. Again, once paxs understand that a four star rating is their directive to Uber to shitcan the driver immediately, they are far less likely to rate a driver a four, unless the driver is truly horrible.

For the record, I got my driver summary yesterday. I gave 38 rides last week. All paxs rated me five stars. Uber congratulated me. I wish I could take pride in that, but because I understand how statistically flawed the system is, I just shrug my shoulders. But I'm glad my paxs are grasping this. Stats is a fascinating mathematical science, once a person takes the time to understand the fundamentals.

I believe that your confusion stemmed from not fully grasping the difference between an interval scale and an ordinal scale. Now that we have finally cleared that up, is there anything else about statistical methodology that I can explain to you?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

RideshareGuru said:


> Your ratings jump and then your insistance that you made it happen in one night while having a lot of rides under your belt. Everyone knows the rating system is flawed, that's not news to anyone. Let's do some basic math. Assume you only had 100 rides with your 4.8 rating and you did 20 5-star rides in one night, taking nothing under a 5. This also assumes that all of your riders rated you (something that doesn't happen often). At the end of the night, you'd only have a 4.88. It would take over 100 rides to bring your rating up to a 4.95, and that's if you only had 100 rides going into that night. So, again, YOU ARE A DIRTY LIAR. People can do math.


For the record, I got my driver summary yesterday. I gave 38 rides last week. All paxs rated me five stars. Uber congratulated me. I wish I could take pride in that, but because I understand how statistically flawed the system is, I just shrug my shoulders. But I'm glad my paxs are grasping this. Stats is a fascinating mathematical science, once a person takes the time to understand the fundamentals. No lying, just mathematics. Well, mathematics and educated paxs. No magic here and no fuzzy math.

Anything else I can clear up for you, Guru, or are we good for now?


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## johnny danger (Nov 4, 2014)

yo desert boy,,, thought I'd check in with you one last time,,,I stopped driven about a week ago due to too many unsure risks such as insur. impoundment in Phila. and wear n tear on my whip,,, but I have to let you know, with all ball breaking aside, I actually agree with you on this point about the rating system,,, a lot of retail stores give surveys to their customers and anything less than %100 is a failure,, and taking the time to explain how it is unfair and unjust was ones best bet for the sales rep.... I guess I owe you an apology for breaking balls,,you do make yourself an easy target,,, I only came on here for info. and entertainment but since I'm no longer driving I'll be moving on. It is nice to see someone with a positive attitude try to figure out how too make the system work for them instead of *****in about it... with that being said,,, I'm sorry for being a dick,,,, but some of it was pretty funny,,, good luck and happy ubering.....


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

johnny danger said:


> yo desert boy,,, thought I'd check in with you one last time,,,I stopped driven about a week ago due to too many unsure risks such as insur. impoundment in Phila. and wear n tear on my whip,,, but I have to let you know, with all ball breaking aside, I actually agree with you on this point about the rating system,,, a lot of retail stores give surveys to their customers and anything less than %100 is a failure,, and taking the time to explain how it is unfair and unjust was ones best bet for the sales rep.... I guess I owe you an apology for breaking balls,,you do make yourself an easy target,,, I only came on here for info. and entertainment but since I'm no longer driving I'll be moving on. It is nice to see someone with a positive attitude try to figure out how too make the system work for them instead of *****in about it... with that being said,,, I'm sorry for being a dick,,,, but some of it was pretty funny,,, good luck and happy ubering.....


It takes a little more than some blog posts to get under this cowboy's saddle. I participate on blogs for entertainment and information purposes. I'm saddened to see you ride off into the sunset. It's contributors like you who make blogging fun and worthwhile, even if it does lead to moderator warnings and suspensions from time to time. Yes, that has happened to me, but that's all part of the fun - not unlike the penalty box in hockey.

I, too, will be hanging up my rideshare keys after the holidays. The risks are too great. Besides, with the gray areas of insurance and possible regulatory violations, legal experts are predicting that the rideshare model has about 12 to 18 months of life left in most places in this country.

It's been fun sparring with you, JD, and I wish you the best. Happy Holidays!

DD


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

RideshareGuru said:


> Your ratings jump and then your insistance that you made it happen in one night while having a lot of rides under your belt. Everyone knows the rating system is flawed, that's not news to anyone. Let's do some basic math. Assume you only had 100 rides with your 4.8 rating and you did 20 5-star rides in one night, taking nothing under a 5. This also assumes that all of your riders rated you (something that doesn't happen often). At the end of the night, you'd only have a 4.88. It would take over 100 rides to bring your rating up to a 4.95, and that's if you only had 100 rides going into that night. So, again, YOU ARE A DIRTY LIAR. People can do math.


Gu - I just checked and I'm at 156 Uber rides as of this AM. I split my driving between Uber and Lyft. I also have a couple of my own small businesses, so I have limited hours that I can drive. I've been driving for just over a month, but my stats background allowed me to figure out the rating system errors and flaws before I ever got behind the wheel for Uber.

Anything else I can clarify for you? I'll be happy to explain mean, median, and mode if you'd like me to. That's day one of any stats class, but it's no trouble if you'd care for a little tutelage.

Uber on, amigo! I'm enjoying your comments and retorts, and I look forward to continuing to educate you on statistical methodology. I'm glad you're curious and questioning. That's the seed of learning!


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> For the record, I got my driver summary yesterday. I gave 38 rides last week. All paxs rated me five stars. Uber congratulated me. I wish I could take pride in that, but because I understand how statistically flawed the system is, I just shrug my shoulders. But I'm glad my paxs are grasping this. Stats is a fascinating mathematical science, once a person takes the time to understand the fundamentals. No lying, just mathematics. Well, mathematics and educated paxs. No magic here and no fuzzy math.
> 
> Anything else I can clear up for you, Guru, or are we good for now?


Again, I've already cleared it up mathematically. It is possible to raise your rating significantly with 38 rides, but ONLY if you had 30 or less rides going into the weekend. Therefore, as stated several times before, you either lied about the ratings jump, or have very few rides under your belt. Nothing has changed.


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## Uber Driver 007 (Jun 17, 2014)

I don't really believe Uber can actually remove individual ratings given by riders. Has anyone actually witnessed their rating jump back up after they requested for a wrongful bad rating to be removed?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

RideshareGuru said:


> Again, I've already cleared it up mathematically. It is possible to raise your rating significantly with 38 rides, but ONLY if you had 30 or less rides going into the weekend. Therefore, as stated several times before, you either lied about the ratings jump, or have very few rides under your belt. Nothing has changed.


156 Uber rides as of this morning. Anything else I can clear up for you, or are we good for the time being?

Oh, and mathematically speaking, moving 15 one-hundredths of a point in 38 rides with a sample of 156 is absolutely mathematically possible. That's what happens when only five stars are given by paxs. Math is kind of funny that way. You understand.

Keep asking questions and making challenges like this, Gu. Even though your assumptions and statements have been proven erroneous, you're continuing to learn and that makes you a wiser person. As I often tell my kids, "You learn more by losing than you do by winning." Again, I'm glad to help you in any way I can.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> 156 Uber rides as of this morning. Anything else I can clear up for you, or are we good for the time being?
> 
> Oh, and mathematically speaking, moving 15 one-hundredths of a point in 38 rides with a sample of 156 is absolutely mathematically possible. That's what happens when only five stars are given by paxs. Math is kind of funny that way. You understand.
> 
> Keep asking questions and making challenges like this, Gu. Even though your assumptions and statements have been proven erroneous, you're continuing to learn and that makes you a wiser person. Again, I'm glad to help in any way I can.


Let's do some math together to explain why you are a dirty liar and expose your bullshit once and for all. By your own numbers, you did 38 rides last week and now have a total of 156 rides and you said that your rating started at 4.8 and moved to 4.95 after your 38 rides. Therefore, you had a 4.8 average with 118 rides going into the weekend, meaning you had a total of 566 stars (4.8* 118). After gaining another 190 stars over the weekend (5*38), you now have a total of 756 stars. 756 stars divided by 156 rides is an average of 4.85 (756/156). So, again, you are a liar who doesn't even have the sense to quit when exposed. It takes a special kind of stupid to throw out numbers and not even do the math ahead of time.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Uber Driver 007 said:


> I don't really believe Uber can actually remove individual ratings given by riders. Has anyone actually witnessed their rating jump back up after they requested for a wrongful bad rating to be removed?


I presented this very question to my local Uber rep. Yes, individual outliers can and will be removed upon timely request. Again, proper statistical methodology always removes the outliers, both high and low.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> I presented this very question to my local Uber rep. Yes, individual outliers can and will be removed upon timely request. Again, proper statistical methodology always removes the outliers, both high and low.


If you remove the high outliers, your rating would be a 4 you nitwit.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> *Are you sure the passenger can't see his ratings? I agree with the Op, it seems like when you give a bad rating they retaliate by giving you a bad rating.
> I have uber on my personal phone, I don't see a rating, but then again, I've never ordered a car.*


If you are dumb enough to rate the passenger while they are watching, sure, otherwise, no it is confidential.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

RideshareGuru said:


> If you remove the high outliers, your rating would be a 4 you nitwit.


Oh for the love of god! Are you friggin' kidding me? Seriously? You have no idea how to use or calculate standard deviation, do you? Standard deviation was also discussed early in the first semester of Stats 201. Let me try to put this simply. Generally speaking, you throw out results that are more than three or four standard deviations from the mean. That means that the "tails" of the distribution curve get eliminated. For every driver, that will include all the ones, and likely the twos, as well. But because we are talking about standard deviation from the mean (you get that, right?) none of the fives will get eliminated because a five is not more than three standard deviations from the mean, unless the driver is poorly rated and likely on the cusp of getting deactivated.

Again, Gu, you need to refresh yourself on statistical fundamentals. I don't mind helping and educating you, but your declarative statements that are clearly incorrect are making you look, well, you know...

You may fashion yourself a rideshare guru, but you're not a statistics guru, at least not yet. But I am willing to help you there. Please continue to ask and challenge. You'll be better equipped to explain the flaws in the rating system to your paxs and earn higher ratings without a whole lot of effort. Again, math is a wonderful thing.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Oh for the love of god! Are you friggin' kidding me? Seriously? You have no idea how to use or calculate standard deviation, do you? Standard deviation was also discussed early in the first semester of Stats 201. Let me try to put this simply. Generally speaking, you throw out results that are more than three or four standard deviations from the mean. That means that the "tails" of the distribution curve get eliminated. For every driver, that will include all the ones, and likely the twos, as well. But because we are talking about standard deviation from the mean (you get that, right?) none of the fives will get eliminated because a five is not more than three standard deviations from the mean, unless the driver is poorly rated and likely on the cusp of getting deactivated.
> 
> Again, Gu, you need to refresh yourself on statistical fundamentals. I don't mind helping and educating you, but your declarative statements that are clearly incorrect are making you look, well, you know...


Dude, I already destroyed you on your ratings math. Don't make me do it again. Again, trade in your shovel for a rope, the hole you're in is pretty deep.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Gu, you're just not grasping this, are you? I was first thinking that you lacked a firm grounding in statistical methodology, which is common with most people. But now I am arriving at the conclusion that your misunderstanding and skills deficit is more fundamental. It appears your basic mathematical skills may be in question. Would you like me to explain how arithmetic averages are calculated and how they differ from statistical averages? It's all in the use of standard deviations. You seem to be stuck on that point needlessly. If you can explain where your comprehension is failing you, then I can straighten that out before we get into statistical sampling, scaling, and calculation of standard deviation. Would that help you? It seems you really want to grasp this and I'm more than happy to help, but you will first have to articulate where your mathematical/statistical skills are not well grounded.

Here - this may help...

Standard Deviation - A measure of the dispersion of a set of data from its mean. The more spread apart the data, the higher the deviation. Standard deviation is calculated as the square root of variance.​That should be a starting point for understanding the difference between a statistical mean and arithmetic mean. See, you're calculating my driver score using arithmetic tools. And that explains why your values are incorrect. I am calculating my driver score as a statistical mean, which means I engage in the statistically proper technique of eliminating the outliers that are more that three (3) standard deviations from the mean.

As I was driving to work this morning I kept wondering how and why your values were so different from mine. Then it occurred to me that mine are more precise because I'm using statistical calculation tools, but yours are easier because you're using arithmetic calculations. So, as it turns out, we both know how to calculate mean scores, I was calculating more precisely as I was calculating a statistical mean, while you were calculating an arithmetic mean. In the future, Gu, when calculating mean score for anything, always first determine the standard deviation so you'll know what the outliers are in your sample and you can trim them. Remember what a bell curve looks like? Trimming the outliers clips off the "tails" of the bell curve. You'll get much more accurate results when you calculate statistical means rather than arithmetic means.

Now that we finally have that resolved, what else can I answer for you?


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Gu, you're just not grasping this, are you? I was first thinking that you lacked a firm grounding in statistical methodology, which is common with most people. But now I am arriving at the conclusion that your misunderstanding and skills deficit is more fundamental. It appears your basic mathematical skills may be in question. Would you like me to explain how arithmetic averages are calculated? You seem to be stuck on that point needlessly. If you can explain where your comprehension is failing you, then I can straighten that out before we get into statistical sampling, scaling, and calculation of standard deviation. Would that help you? It seems you really want to grasp this and I'm more than happy to help, but you will first have to articulate where your mathematical skills are not well grounded.


Sure, start by explaining how you think I'm wrong on your ratings math. I layed it all out for you. Pretty simple. I also want to note that you have already changed your story on your ratings story. Initially you said that the ratings jump happened in 1 day, then you claimed it was over 2 days. Neither case works mathematically, but oblige me, what is your next lie?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Gu, you're just not grasping this, are you? I was first thinking that you lacked a firm grounding in statistical methodology, which is common with most people. But now I am arriving at the conclusion that your misunderstanding and skills deficit is more fundamental. It appears your basic mathematical skills may be in question. Would you like me to explain how arithmetic averages are calculated? You seem to be stuck on that point needlessly. If you can explain where your comprehension is failing you, then I can straighten that out before we get into statistical sampling, scaling, and calculation of standard deviation. Would that help you? It seems you really want to grasp this and I'm more than happy to help, but you will first have to articulate where your mathematical skills are not well grounded.


Making ad hominem attacks upon your mentor is never a productive path to learning. Just sayin'. But I've been teaching long enough to ignore those comments that almost always stem from the student's frustration with the subject matter. I understand, Gu. I really do.


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## Uber9 (Nov 16, 2014)

Statistics! - Last one I took was part of my MBA course work which was a few decades ago. Boy did I hate it!

Uber rating system is garbage for sure. My driver rating in app shows 4.81 and within the web ui shows 4.82 and the rider sees 4.9, summary received today says rating down to 4.7 - What is that about?

Every rider as well as driver starts at 5 star. Okay good enough and my very close friend used it for the first time, I can tell you there is no way someone should have rated this rider so low, for the second ride the rider rating was 3.5, go figure, was the driver a junkie or is the Uber rating system just a joke.

Once I realized the rating system was a joke I stopped refusing to accept people as low as 3 (have not yet seen anything lower) and so happy to report that all these 3 star rated passengers turned out to be really nice.

More often than not my riders are so happy with me that I fail to understand why my driver rating is stuck at 4.82? Yes all riders get a 5 star from me except the ones who eat in my car or swear excessively!


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Making ad hominem attacks upon your mentor is never a productive path to learning. Just sayin'. But I've been teaching long enough to ignore those comments that almost always stem from the student's frustration with the subject matter. I understand, Gu. I really do.


Again, i did the math plainly for you and you can't refute it. Put up or shut up LIAR.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Uber9 said:


> Statistics! - Last one I took was part of my MBA course work which was a few decades ago. Boy did I hate it!
> 
> Uber rating system is garbage for sure. My driver rating in app shows 4.81 and within the web ui shows 4.82 and the rider sees 4.9, summary received today says rating down to 4.7 - What is that about?
> 
> ...


Finally, someone who has a grounding in statistics. I was beginning to feel that I was all alone out here. I, too, studied my share of statistics on the way to earning my MBA - three stats courses as an undergrad and two as a grad student. My bride is a researcher who uses statistics daily, so she and I have had a great time tearing up the Uber rating system. Perhaps you can explain to RideshareGuru what the difference is between a statistical mean and an arithmetic mean. I just can't seem to get through to him, maybe you can. Clearly, he does not understand how to calculate and apply standard deviations when calculating the statistical mean. It's not difficult, of course, but my explanations are just not sinking in. Like most folks who don't have a grounding in stats, RideshareGuru is attempting to conflate arithmetic calculations with statistical calculations. If you can successfully explain the difference to him between arithmetic mean and statistical mean, you're a better teacher than I am with this student.
Anyway, welcome to Desert Driver's Stat Review Course.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Finally, someone who has a grounding in statistics. I was beginning to feel that I was all alone out here. I, too, studied my share of statistics on the way to earning my MBA. My bride is a researcher who uses statistics daily, so she and I have had a great time tearing up the Uber rating system. Perhaps you can explain to RideshareGuru what the difference is between a statistical mean and an arithmetic mean. I just can't seem to get through to him, maybe you can. Clearly, he does not understand how to calculate and apply standard deviations when calculating the statistical mean. It's not difficult, of course, but my explanations are just not sinking in.
> Anyway, welcome to Desert Driver's Stat Review Course.


Newsflash ******, the ratings are an arithmetic mean. You never offered a solution. Now you try to move on to fooling others. The is no way that you can go from a 4.8 with 118 rides to a 4.95 with 156 rides (your numbers) on a 5 point ratings system. Mathematically proven.


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## jsixis (Dec 14, 2014)

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Evidently you chose to pick them up anyway.....despite the fact they were miles from the pin and they "expected" it?


no I did not pick them up. I hit start trip, end trip and there is your 1


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

marketmark said:


> I tell everyone that asks me that they have 4.9 stars and they are one of the better passengers I have gotten to spend time with.


Smoothy!


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

RideshareGuru said:


> Dude, I already destroyed you on your ratings math. Don't make me do it again. Again, trade in your shovel for a rope, the hole you're in is pretty deep.


I'm thinking you should perhaps find a full length mirror, put on some Gun Slinger chaps on, stand legs apart and say that all again. You'll feel so much better about yourself. !


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> I'm thinking you should perhaps find a full length mirror, put on some Gun Slinger chaps on, stand legs apart and say that all again. You'll feel so much better about yourself. !


He tried to outright lie with the math already out there. I don't like bullshitters to begin with, but continuing to lie when it's this obvious is insulting.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

jsixis said:


> no I did not pick them up. I hit start trip, end trip and there is your 1


Why the **** would you start a trip without a passenger?


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Why the **** would you start a trip without a passenger?


Not sure if it's done differently here, in my Cabbie days once the client was advised the car was outside that was when the meter was thrown.

Client books a car, driver fulfils request to attend and is advised by base or driver, billable time starts.

I've never known why UBER never followed that model - it would have helped condition riders to get into the car quickly, utilising it to make money from the get go. Not have it sitting around earning diddly-squat whilst some rider is fixing their hair.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

I believe Uber wants drivers to wait until the customer actually gets in the car. Also many of us want to evaluate a customer to determine if we want to drive them and to get rated by them. For as little as we make waiting with the nater running it's not worth it to me to start until I'm sure that I'm actually taking the customer. JMPO...


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

RideshareGuru said:


> Newsflash ******, the ratings are an arithmetic mean. You never offered a solution. Now you try to move on to fooling others. The is no way that you can go from a 4.8 with 118 rides to a 4.95 with 156 rides (your numbers) on a 5 point ratings system. Mathematically proven.


Wouldn't it be a revelation if UBER actually fiddled the figures to suit their purposes? All this conjecture would be redundant.

We are dealing with a Company that doesn't respect established transport laws, airport access laws, safe driving hours guidelines, holds out on stated driver guarantees, collates data off clients who are riding home after sexual liaisons, threatens journalists who print negative stories..... Man! Do we think that UBER would respect Mathematics laws?


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Former Yellow Driver said:


> I believe Uber wants drivers to wait until the customer actually gets in the car. Also many of us want to evaluate a customer to determine if we want to drive them and to get rated by them. For as little as we make waiting with the nater running it's not worth it to me to start until I'm sure that I'm actually taking the customer. JMPO...


I agree with you that a driver should have an opportunity to eyeball whoever they are supposed to pick up. If a female driver doesn't feel safe when 4 rowdy Jocks are heading her way, it's her call to complete the job or not. There should be NO opportunity for riders to down-rate a driver who has decided they don't wish to fulfil the request.

But sitting around earning nothing? Can you imagine how the UBER valuation would jump again if they changed that policy and worked out how much more revenue there would be if drivers threw the app once arrived at verified pick up point.


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## No-tippers-suck (Oct 20, 2014)

Liar or not.. I don't agree with Deserdriver "I rate everybody a 5Star and since then my ratings went up... blabla"
I called him begging for ratings and even Uber tells us NOT to do that.
However I like his penmanship and the way he finds words to describe his thoughts.

I gave a few 3 stars last night (just to never get connected with those pax again)
mostly those who made me wait and didn't tip after I kindly explained them that I do not get compensated for the wait.
They had the chance to pay for it but they have choosen not to respect my time.

Also a few 4 Stars, but mostly I gave 5 Stars.

Around 2am during a x1.5 surge in the Venice / Marina del rey area I received a few 4.0 to 4.6 rated requests and they were about 12mins away.

I accepted and cancelled them. Then I received a 4.9 rated also 12 mins away. and accepted.
Upon arrival I called and they picked up their phone and said they are on their way out.
two minutes later they were in my car and even tho a little drunk, very friendly, respectful and that's why "MOST WELCOME"
$44 dollar ride and $4 tip.. rated them 5 Star.

*bottom line* is that I will not give everybody (who's not deserving it) a 5 Star and also will not pick up low rated pax.
I am currently taking screenshots of pings that I am refusing, just for the case to have something in hands if Uber ever ever contacts me about my acceptance rate or cancellation rate.
I will then say If a driver gets deactivated at 4.6 why the hack should I be pressured to accept "low class passengers = troublemakers" ?

I appreciate all drivers that "warn eachother" by rating pax low if they were "lower class people"

Just let's be honest to eachother.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> Wouldn't it be a revelation if UBER actually fiddled the figures to suit their purposes? All this conjecture would be redundant.
> 
> We are dealing with a Company that doesn't respect established transport laws, airport access laws, safe driving hours guidelines, holds out on stated driver guarantees, collates data off clients who are riding home after sexual liaisons, threatens journalists who print negative stories..... Man! Do we think that UBER would respect Mathematics laws?


Ah yes, uber must be somehow incentivized to raise one random guy's rating, makes perfect sense. At least you can find motive in the other things you mentioned. Math laws are one of those things that tend to be the same for everyone when you have a system with over 100,000 drivers that are all handled by the same system.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> I agree with you that a driver should have an opportunity to eyeball whoever they are supposed to pick up. If a female driver doesn't feel safe when 4 rowdy Jocks are heading her way, it's her call to complete the job or not. There should be NO opportunity for riders to down-rate a driver who has decided they don't wish to fulfil the request.
> 
> But sitting around earning nothing? Can you imagine how the UBER valuation would jump again if they changed that policy and worked out how much more revenue there would be if drivers threw the app once arrived at verified pick up point.


Lyft already does it. Thing is that it only adds a couple of minutes per fare, if that and uber only gains 20% of it. In a no-show situation, the cancelation fee is all you get as it should be.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

While the passenger starts being charged after a few minutes, Lyft passengers don't get to rate their drivers until the driver hits the arrived/start trip function. A much better system IMHO


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Former Yellow Driver said:


> While the passenger starts being charged after a few minutes, Lyft passengers don't get to rate their drivers until the driver hits the arrived/start trip function. A much better system IMHO


Agreed, but in my mind the thing that makes it so much better is that on Lyft you only have to wait 3 minutes. The extra 2 minutes you might get paid on a ride are nothing after commissions, maybe $0.25.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

RideshareGuru said:


> Agreed, but in my mind the thing that makes it so much better is that on Lyft you only have to wait 3 minutes. The extra 2 minutes you might get paid on a ride are nothing after commissions, maybe $0.25.


Agreed.... Plus it encourages the customer to drag their Butts out to the car in a timely manner.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Agreed.... Plus it encourages the customer to drag their Butts out to the car in a timely manner.


They still don't learn. I can't tell you how many times I've canceled and charged the pax only to have them re request, lol. Of course i don't take the ping the 2nd time around. I feel sorry for the next guy though, pax probably low rates them because they're pissed at me!


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

At least you get paid for the trip.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

RideshareGuru said:


> Agreed, but in my mind the thing that makes it so much better is that on Lyft you only have to wait 3 minutes. The extra 2 minutes you might get paid on a ride are nothing after commissions, maybe $0.25.


 Do your Maths!
With the Chicken feed Uber pays its drivers that could add up over a month - it's gotta worth a Big Mac a month!


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## Optimus Uber (Oct 7, 2014)

marketmark said:


> I tell everyone that asks me that they have 4.9 stars and they are one of the better passengers I have gotten to spend time with.


Yeah, I lie to them too.

I had 3 kids in the car today, so I told them a story to pass time. Told them I had a passenger that asked my to bring them to the beach, so I drove them to san Diego and dropped them at the beach there. Told them he was so mad. They laughed allot


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Just gave my 300th ride. Yay, me!
just gave my 300th five-star pax rating. Yay, pax!

My driver rating now at 4.98. Yay, statistically flawed rating system!

Keep educating your paxs about shitty rating system. Remember that 4 stars means, "Fire this driver immediately." Once pax understand that, you'll get consistent fives.

No need to thank Desert Driver. He's here to help.


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Just gave my 300th ride. Yay, me!
> just gave my 300th five-star pax rating. Yay, pax!
> 
> My driver rating now at 4.98. Yay, statistically flawed rating system!
> ...


At it again huh? 38 rides in 1 week, 144 in the next? And all rated and all 5 stars as well? Oh, and btw, even if all of that were true, your average would only be a 4.92. Have you ever stopped and asked yourself, "why do I feel the need to be such a pathological liar?" Seriously, what is your ultimate goal?


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