# Questions from an Uber pro and a Lyft noob



## BigSlick (Apr 15, 2015)

I have driven over 3000 Uber rides (yeah, I'm a sucker)... I finally broke down and signed up to drive for Lyft and I have a few questions...

#1. I had 3 ride requests that were around 40 minutes away. I didn't accept any of of them. Will they deactivate if you have a low acceptance rate? There's no way I will take a ride I know I'm losing money on.

#2. Where in the app or online can you see if you've made any tips? I have no idea if I got any or not?

#3. Under "Ride Payments" is that my cut or is that the total in fees before they take their cut?

thanks


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

1. Just like Uber. Warnings first. Then possible deactivation. 3 requests denied are probably not going to do it.

2. No. These show up in daily reports. If you want to know "who" tipped, just keep track of pax names as they roll in and you can run down the log to see who tipped and who did not.

3. Gross before platform cut, no tips shown.


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## BigSlick (Apr 15, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> 1. Just like Uber. Warnings first. Then possible deactivation. 3 requests denied are probably not going to do it.
> 
> 2. No. These show up in daily reports. If you want to know "who" tipped, just keep track of pax names as they roll in and you can run down the log to see who tipped and who did not.
> 
> 3. Gross before platform cut, no tips shown.


I only had 7 requests, so 3 is a lot... Also I made a dollar tip. Woo Hoo!


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## LEAFdriver (Dec 28, 2014)

I asked this on another thread...but the title of this one seems more appropriate to my question:

Where is the Driver's Rating? I didn't see it in the Dashboard or anywhere on the app. I've only done 6 rides so far.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

BigSlick said:


> I only had 7 requests, so 3 is a lot... Also I made a dollar tip. Woo Hoo!


One week ain't gonna get a driver deactivated. Never pushed it much longer than a couple weeks myself, and with a lot more fares, back when Lyft was actually delivering them, which they no longer are.

To get tips a driver has to up their game. My tips will vary, but usually run in the 11-20% zone on any given day and in the 13-15% range from week to week. These help a lot, but again, without enough biz to do just Lyft it's been relegated to a marginal sideline with a day here and there that can still be OK.


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

Welcome to Lyft, BigSlick! I am also a sucker (lol) but my nearly 3000 rides have been evenly split between Uber/Lyft. Scrurbscrud answered your questions accurately but I will add that I frequently will accept those 30+ minute requests. In almost every instance the rider will cancel within a minute or two and this helps, rather than hurts, my acceptance rate. In the odd instance that they do not cancel I simply call and state that there must have been a "system malfunction" and request that they cancel and try again because surely there will be someone much closer to them.


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## afrojoe824 (Oct 21, 2015)

BigSlick said:


> I have driven over 3000 Uber rides (yeah, I'm a sucker)... I finally broke down and signed up to drive for Lyft and I have a few questions...
> 
> #1. I had 3 ride requests that were around 40 minutes away. I didn't accept any of of them. Will they deactivate if you have a low acceptance rate? There's no way I will take a ride I know I'm losing money on.
> 
> ...


If you've made over $50 for the week, you could check for tips by clicking on express pay. You'll see your tip amounts there. 15 minutes after every ride, I check express pay to see my tips. Made $15 tip yesterday.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

LEAFdriver said:


> I asked this on another thread...but the title of this one seems more appropriate to my question:
> 
> Where is the Driver's Rating? I didn't see it in the Dashboard or anywhere on the app. I've only done 6 rides so far.


If I remember correctly a driver has to have (X number) of fares before a rating shows up. Just don't remember the number. I want to say 30 or something like that.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Friendly Jack said:


> Welcome to Lyft, BigSlick! I am also a sucker (lol) but my nearly 3000 rides have been evenly split between Uber/Lyft. Scrurbscrud answered your questions accurately but I will add that I frequently will accept those 30+ minute requests. In almost every instance the rider will cancel within a minute or two and this helps, rather than hurts, my acceptance rate. In the odd instance that they do not cancel I simply call and state that there must have been a "system malfunction" and request that they cancel and try again because surely there will be someone much closer to them.


I do the same thing. Accept them all. Then call and request a cancel on the long ones. The longer time Lyft users don't even wait to do this anymore. As soon as you call them they don't even answer, and the cancel comes through a few seconds later, cause they know how it is.

If I am bored out of my mind, I might even take a longer request just to see what happens. Lyft also has a little widget on the lower left hand side that if you open and the pax has filled it out, you can see where they are going. When I see a long run, I'm usually on it without any questions about distance to pax if it's within reason or the math makes sense.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

afrojoe824 said:


> If you've made over $50 for the week, you could check for tips by clicking on express pay. You'll see your tip amounts there. 15 minutes after every ride, I check express pay to see my tips. Made $15 tip yesterday.


Yeah, a driver can reverse the math on the express payout to figure out gross tips.


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## BigSlick (Apr 15, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your help... Especially this...



scrurbscrud said:


> Lyft also has a little widget on the lower left hand side that if you open and the pax has filled it out, you can see where they are going. When I see a long run, I'm usually on it without any questions about distance to pax if it's within reason or the math makes sense.


One of my rides was a woman at Shop Rite. She had a kid with her and 20 grocery bags. In 15 degree weather I loaded most of the bags myself and when I got to her house I brought them all to the door (4 trips). She was NOT the one who tipped me.

I was very pleased to see the $4 minimum as opposed to the $3.20. Over time that is a HUGE difference.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

BigSlick said:


> Thanks everyone for your help... Especially this...
> 
> One of my rides was a woman at Shop Rite. She had a kid with her and 20 grocery bags. In 15 degree weather I loaded most of the bags myself and when I got to her house I brought them all to the door (4 trips). She was NOT the one who tipped me.


Store pickups seldom tip. The more bags they have, the less the chances of tip. (Driver understanding from experience.) The Uber pax will never tip, so at least there is a slim chance and it does happen.


> I was very pleased to see the $4 minimum as opposed to the $3.20. Over time that is a HUGE difference.


Your net to driver Uber fare min. appears to be higher than in some areas. In my area it's a net $2.40.

As to min. fare net to driver being higher with Lyft, true, but I have found that my average distance overall with Lyft from initial ping to delivery is much higher with Lyft as well, so the benefit is somewhat diminished. In some cases my "overall net per mile is LESS" on Lyft min. fares because of this. Overall for min. fares I find about 1/2 my Lyft pax will toss a buck or 2, which is also a huge benefit. Beats the hell out of Uber peanuts. I also kiss a lot of pax a** to get to that tip point. On a busy day it can count up nicely compared to Uber's ZIP TIP routine.

If I could, I would devote all my driving time to Lyft, but driver saturation prior to St. Patty's day last year has basically wiped out Lyft only feasibility. They forced me back to Uber. Uber now is back to representing more than 2/3's of my fares for the most part with a day here and there where my Lyft fares will exceed Uber's. But not too often. Lyft is now back to being a 'filler' which is where I started with them in the beginning.


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## Phillip803 (Dec 30, 2015)

I usually accept, then call and inform pax how long it will take to get there. 99% of the time, they cancel which means 0 effect on my acceptance rate.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Phillip803 said:


> I usually accept, then call and inform pax how long it will take to get there. 99% of the time, they cancel which means 0 effect on my acceptance rate.


Exactly. They always cancel. Sometimes you have to call them back and tell them how to do it.

I can't remember the last time a Lyft pax didn't cancel when requested to do so. Been awhile. When they do I might spend 5 min. of downtime and then cancel myself. Just haven't had to do it lately.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Hi guys, just got activated NYE, smh, anyway,



scrurbscrud said:


> Your net to driver Uber fare min. appears to be higher than in some areas. In my area it's a net $2.40.


I was wondering why mine shows $2.70 on $4 min. Is the percentage different ? and the srf is still a dollar ?
.
.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Hi guys, just got activated NYE, smh, anyway,
> 
> I was wondering why mine shows $2.70 on $4 min. Is the percentage different ? and the srf is still a dollar ?
> .


I think the differences are in the SRF and varying min. fares. Where they raised the SRF they also raised the min. fare (in most cases, I think.)


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## BigSlick (Apr 15, 2015)

I drive is Philadelphia and I think $3.20 is horrendous. I don't understand how you even make a profit at $2.40.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

BigSlick said:


> I drive is Philadelphia and I think $3.20 is horrendous. I don't understand how you even make a profit at $2.40.


I tolerate these and take great pains to avoid them. That being said I can usually still yield a buck a mile gross on these fares, which is my general goal on UberX. On some Lyft min. fare trips I've had this yield drop down to 80 cents or less, which does not meet my min. criteria.


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## MiddleClassedOut (Jun 11, 2015)

One of the great mysteries of the universe is how Uber is getting away with counting the safe rides fee as commissionable. That's why an Uber minimum fare trip is always a lower net than a Lyft trip.

Anyhoo, a lot of variance in tipping percentage. It was better before UberX cheapskates started switching in my area. It was around 40-50% now it's down to 25%. You'll start to get a feel for what demographic groups will tip - ALWAYS KISS OLD PEOPLE'S ASS. Anyone over 45 will definitely tip.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Phillip803 said:


> I usually accept, then call and inform pax how long it will take to get there. 99% of the time, they cancel which means 0 effect on my acceptance rate.


Just wanted to be clear here as a soon-to-be new-bee. Driver Accepts, then Rider Cancels within seconds to a minute or two. In this routine, what's the effect on driver's Acceptance rate? In Reading UP posts it seems some drivers say this routine has ZERO effect on Aceeptance rate (i.e., the routine will NOT enter the Acceptance rate computation equation at all), while some other drivers say it will slightly increase our Acceptance rate (i.e., it will essentially count as an accepted trip in the Acceptance equation). I know it is hard for drivers to gauge one single transaction's effect on overall Acceptance rate and only Lyber execs and programmers know which of the above two scenarios are coded into Lyber's algorithm. But what do you think is more likely the case?


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

Quick cancels by the passengers have improved my acceptance rate. Just remember that each ride you accept just adds another into the pool, so you are unlikely to see a percentage gain from just 1 passenger cancellation.

For example, if you have accepted 22 of 25 ride requests, you are at exactly 88%; accept 1 more ride, and that increases to 88.46%. You've increased your acceptance rate but it will take another accepted request to jump to 89%. At 24 of 27 accepted, you are now just rounding up to 89%; At 25 of 28 you've reached 89.28%; At 26 of 29, you might round up to 90%, but could still fall short at 89.6%.

Just a quick an dirty example, but 1 accept does not always result in a percentage gain.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

K, I found it, it does say $3.20. So maybe there is a .50 cent fee for quick pay transaction.

Maybe I missed this but, does the lyft ping over ride ubers app and comes to the front like ubers app ?


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## BigSlick (Apr 15, 2015)

So, I've had a stellar first two days of driving for Lyft. I guess Uber rules Philadelphia.


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## novadrivergal (Oct 8, 2015)

When you accept and the rider cancels, yes it is a positive for your acceptance rate. If you are going for any guarantees with Lyft the acceptance rate is important and you should take every ping. If I am a distance away I call the rider and explain to them the system must have made a mistake, they should cancel and try for someone closer. They get it. I have never had anyone refuse to cancel, although once in a great while I get one that says they will but doesn't and I have to bite the bullet and cancel myself. There is no downside in accepting and calling the passenger because if you don't accept it is an automatic hit on acceptance rate but if you accept there is an excellent chance of getting the rider to cancel. The only time I ever let a Lyft ping time out is by mistake.


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## Phillip803 (Dec 30, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> Just wanted to be clear here as a soon-to-be new-bee. Driver Accepts, then Rider Cancels within seconds to a minute or two. In this routine, what's the effect on driver's Acceptance rate? In Reading UP posts it seems some drivers say this routine has ZERO effect on Aceeptance rate (i.e., the routine will NOT enter the Acceptance rate computation equation at all), while some other drivers say it will slightly increase our Acceptance rate (i.e., it will essentially count as an accepted trip in the Acceptance equation). I know it is hard for drivers to gauge one single transaction's effect on overall Acceptance rate and only Lyber execs and programmers know which of the above two scenarios are coded into Lyber's algorithm. But what do you think is more likely the case?


I'm not 100% sure of how the pax cancelled ride request affects your acceptance rate so I wont confirm but to the best of my knowledge, I think that's how it works


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## BigSlick (Apr 15, 2015)

Phillip803 said:


> I'm not 100% sure of how the pax cancelled ride request affects your acceptance rate so I wont confirm but to the best of my knowledge, I think that's how it works


I can confirm it works that way. My first night I had 7 requests, accepted 4, ignored 3, and 1 of the 4 cancelled so I had 3 rides and it said I had a 57% acceptance.


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## Emmanuel12 (Jan 6, 2016)

BigSlick said:


> So, I've had a stellar first two days of driving for Lyft. I guess Uber rules Philadelphia.


55.27 in 8 hours that's 7 buck a hour before any expenses and gas wear and tear, your lower back is taking a beating. Why do our government allow this atrocity to happen.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Emmanuel12 said:


> 55.27 in 8 hours that's 7 buck a hour before any expenses and gas wear and tear, your lower back is taking a beating. Why do our government allow this atrocity to happen.


Let's just face the fact that they really don't give a s**t.

My driving is sporadic. It doesn't take a genius to figure out when the math works and when it doesn't. It's been as above for the entire year, because of pay cutz and driver saturation.

Whatever they claim, people are not going to work very long for the above kind of money. I sure as hell won't. Screw 'em. Pax can walk for all I care. But I do have the luxury of saying NO to piss poor pay.

My rules are simple. Do test runs if ya got nothing better to do. Work for 2 or 3 hours in hot zones. If it doesn't pay, go home. That is one way.

Another is just to turn on the apps, recognize how many cars are out. Watch them disappear or NOT, and see if the supply/demand quotient is not going to pay. A driver can get good at this simple assessment in a hurry.

Another is to watch during what might be normally high pax traffic times in the a.m and p.m. If it starts to turn red during these times, it may be time to go back out and drive. Same for weekend late runs. Sometimes it pays. Most times it doesn't. I'm not interested in staying up half the night to drive drunks around for a net $2.40. Some other idiots can do that. I won't.

What happens is you'll find yourself driving less and less because of the simple fact that the pay just ain't worth a damn.


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## BigSlick (Apr 15, 2015)

I should add that I was running both apps at once and turning off Lyft when I got an Uber pax. Overall it wasn't bad for a Monday and Tuesday Night... just that almost all the rides were Uber.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

BigSlick said:


> I should add that I was running both apps at once and turning off Lyft when I got an Uber pax. Overall it wasn't bad for a Monday and Tuesday Night... just that almost all the rides were Uber.


Well that paints a different picture for sure. There aren't many markets where Uber/Lyft requests come in parity; most markets you will receive an Uber request before Lyft - so Lyft will be offline considerably more. The Lyft system favors drivers that have been online without a request longer; so by toggling offline frequently, your chances of receiving a request are further diminished.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

After checking my 365 day total for Uber I did just north of 1500 trips for an average gross (b4 co. cut OR srf's) of about $12. The same figures last year were north of $19 for avg. gross. Which kind of explains the whole deal.

With Lyft this year I did just north of 1100 trips with an avg. fare 'net' to driver of $13.71. But the number of fares decreased in dramatic fashions after St. Patty's day. It's hardly worth turning on the app today.

I already know because of pay cutz if I were to chart it, the earnings would be running straight downhill in the last 8 months. A lot of the money was earned early in the year, in the first 3+ months with Lyft when they were making a big local push with free fares. I really only had one good month out of the whole year, which was in Feb. with Lyft. The rest of the year with them was just crap.
*
I doubt very much by the time I run my final numbers that I made one taxable DIME.*

*This gig pays lower than the lowest poverty level. The numbers are APPALLING. *This was my first full year.


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## Emmanuel12 (Jan 6, 2016)

I tried the keeping both app running ordeal but I just can't stand Uber any longer so I was hanging out more with Lyft and some night I go making 80 in a matter of a few hours and other night driving the same hours same part of town and barely getting 40 bucks what is changing? The income is so unpredictable its like working at used car dealership and getting pay 10 buck for each car sold. Also I drove more than 14,000 miles so in term I won't pay a cent to uncle Sam on my income due to the fact that my net was in the negative for every minimum fare I completed. minimum fares are lost rides and therefore Lyft and Uber shouldn't get their commission at all on a 4 fare trip. My accountant is going to fist bump me when he find out the amount of miles I will have to claim.


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## john djjjoe (Feb 20, 2015)

Emmanuel12 said:


> I tried the keeping both app running ordeal but I just can't stand Uber any longer so I was hanging out more with Lyft and some night I go making 80 in a matter of a few hours and other night driving the same hours same part of town and barely getting 40 bucks what is changing? The income is so unpredictable its like working at used car dealership and getting pay 10 buck for each car sold. Also I drove more than 14,000 miles so in term I won't pay a cent to uncle Sam on my income due to the fact that my net was in the negative for every minimum fare I completed. minimum fares are lost rides and therefore Lyft and Uber shouldn't get their commission at all on a 4 fare trip. My accountant is going to fist bump me when he find out the amount of miles I will have to claim.


Are you claiming double miles by adding the gross miles from both apps?


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## Emmanuel12 (Jan 6, 2016)

I claim whatever TripLog instruct me to report for tax year 2015 so far I am at 8000+ in tax money which will lower my liability to uncle sam and get a fat check back.


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## john djjjoe (Feb 20, 2015)

Emmanuel12 said:


> I claim whatever TripLog instruct me to report for tax year 2015 so far I am at 8000+ in tax money which will lower my liability to uncle sam and get a fat check back.


Sounds like you are doing this right. Please educate others here.


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## Emmanuel12 (Jan 6, 2016)

My advice is to log every single trip yourself do not rely on the miles recorded by Lyft or Uber. Use a Certified Tax Account to prepare your taxes, not only your accountant will get you every cent you are entitle to but will inform you that driving for Lyft or Uber will almost guarantee you a refund or break even.


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## Djc (Jan 6, 2016)

Emmanuel12 said:


> I claim whatever TripLog instruct me to report for tax year 2015 so far I am at 8000+ in tax money which will lower my liability to uncle sam and get a fat check back.


To be clear to everyone you will not get a check back for current tax year unless you have a W-2 job as well that withholds taxes from your paychecks. If you only work 1099 tax losses are not eligible for refund only can be brought back prior two tax years to reduce tax paid then you can get a refund with filling proper forms. 1099 losses will never pay you more than you owe/have paid in tax. You can however carry forward any extra to future tax returns.


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## BigSlick (Apr 15, 2015)

Djc said:


> To be clear to everyone you will not get a check back for current tax year unless you have a W-2 job as well that withholds taxes from your paychecks. If you only work 1099 tax losses are not eligible for refund only can be brought back prior two tax years to reduce tax paid then you can get a refund with filling proper forms. 1099 losses will never pay you more than you owe/have paid in tax. You can however carry forward any extra to future tax returns.


You obviously aren't familiar with things like the Child Tax Credit and the Earned Income Credit. It is quite possible for someone whose only income is on 1099's to get a small refund.


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## Emmanuel12 (Jan 6, 2016)

Yes I have a full time job that withhold taxes w-2, driving uber/lyft does lower my tax obligation since its a business loss for me at least for me.


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## Emmanuel12 (Jan 6, 2016)

BigSlick said:


> You obviously aren't familiar with things like the Chilid Tax Credit and the Earned Income Credit. It is quite possible for someone whose only income is on 1099's to get a small refund.


I am familiar with CTC and EIC, I do not qualify for EIC I make too much neither Child credit, I have a kid but I let his mom claim him. I claim miles and business loss to Lyft and Uber.


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## Djc (Jan 6, 2016)

BigSlick said:


> You obviously aren't familiar with things like the Child Tax Credit and the Earned Income Credit. It is quite possible for someone whose only income is on 1099's to get a small refund.


Yes I understand my point was not to expect a huge refund because of substantial business losses if you are only 1099. Not directed at you but for people in general.


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