# Can I request a driver for only for the minimum fare & pay them in cash to my final destination?



## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Can I request a driver for only for the minimum fare & pay them in cash to my final destination?


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

You would have to ask the driver. Uber wouldn't like it if they found out.


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## UberReallySucks (Jul 17, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Can I request a driver for only for the minimum fare & pay them in cash to my final destination?


_
Yeah if you promise you're not gonna try and run away at the end of the trip. _


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Tim In Cleveland said:


> You would have to ask the driver. Uber wouldn't like it if they found out.


Thank you for your response. I just rode Uber today for the 1st time. It seems that many of my drivers today were not happy with pay structure. Why aren't more Uber drivers doing these types of practices to keep more money in their pockets?


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

UberReallySucks said:


> _
> Yeah if you promise you're not gonna try and run away at the end of the trip. _


Thank you for your response. It seems that Uber is running away with drivers money everyday with their constant rate reductions. I think it would be a risk worth taking even if something like that would happen once in a while.


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## UberReallySucks (Jul 17, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you for your response. It seems that Uber is running away with drivers money everyday with their constant rate reductions. I think it would be a risk worth taking even if something like that would happen once in a while.


_On a serious note, it is against the law to take cash for rides because that basically makes you a *********. Not too long ago, there was a sting operation in LA that resulted in quite a few drivers getting arrested and their cars impounded. They were set up to take cash from lady cops ... then arrested for illegally transporting passengers without the required licenses and / or permits in that jurisdiction.
But if you know you can get away with it or trust the rider ... then by all means ... the hell with Uber._


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Technically illegal, but the Dept of Weights and Measures has been neutered by Gov Doushebag.

Nobody is enforcing any laws regarding the taxi industry right now, so you might as well gypsy on.


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## UberReallySucks (Jul 17, 2015)

_Might as well make "gypsying" on a full time gig since Lyft, Uber's little pink sister just announced price cuts *(10% in San Diego) as of 9/24/2015*. I'm sure her big bad brother will be announcing soon that to allow their valuable partner drivers in San Diego to make more money, they have decided to lower rates to increase ridership... yet again._


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## GrandpaD (Jul 29, 2015)

If the driver "completes" the minimum fare ride in the app and then continues on with you in the vehicle, you better hope he has good insurance. Uber's insurance stops when the app says the ride is completed.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

The driver would also be taking a huge risk should he cause a motor vehicle accident. He would have personal financial responsibility for all repairs and medical costs for everyone involved.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

No.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you for your response. It seems that Uber is running away with drivers money everyday with their constant rate reductions. I think it would be a risk worth taking even if something like that would happen once in a while.


Tip your driver.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> The driver would also be taking a huge risk should he cause a motor vehicle accident. He would have personal financial responsibility for all repairs and medical costs for everyone involved.


.........because Uber's insurance coverage terminates once the driver ends the trip..........



Huberis said:


> Tip your driver.


........the best way to do this if you want to make the driver's paltry compensation a little better.........


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

Offering to structure cash fares is a serious safety risk as cash portions of your ride won't be covered by insurance. Safety features such as live tracking and trip logs also won't be available.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

glados said:


> Offering to structure cash fares is a serious safety risk as cash portions of your ride won't be covered by insurance. Safety features such as live tracking and trip logs also won't be available.





glados said:


> You can start driving for Uber before your full background check completes. It's perfectly normal


*Are they going to revoke my approval?*


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Can I request a driver for only for the minimum fare & pay them in cash to my final destination?


Nope - it won't work.
If you request a driver through the app, the driver accepts and arrives to pick you up, and you complete the trip... Uber is going to charge your account for at least the min fare. If you cancel the trip 5 minutes after making the request, Uber is going to charge you the cancellation fee.

You could jump through hoops to do what you want, but it's not worth it. And most importantly, if you ride on a trip with an Uber driver without the app - YOU are uninsured in the event of an accident.

For a min fare trip (about a 3/4 mile), do everyone a favor and either walk or call a cab. 
(EDIT: Oh, I see now... you want the driver to accept the ride and then end it in the app after a mile... but continue to drive you 70 miles to your destination. Sorry - I misunderstood. But my answer is the same)


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

glados said:


> Offering to structure cash fares is a serious safety risk as cash portions of your ride won't be covered by insurance. Safety features such as live tracking and trip logs also won't be available.


Hey, look at that - glados IS still here on the website...
and has STILL refused to answer the question I asked 3 days ago!
So, Glados:
Are you an employee of Uber or any of it's affiliates or subsidiaries - or are you paid by any entity to monitor and post here on this website?
You've gone a half week without answering that direct question...
are you shooting for a week?
Come clean or get off this board.


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## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you for your response. I just rode Uber today for the 1st time. It seems that many of my drivers today were not happy with pay structure. Why aren't more Uber drivers doing these types of practices to keep more money in their pockets?


Just tip your driver. It's good for everyone


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Can I request a driver for only for the minimum fare & pay them in cash to my final destination?


What do you mean "for only the minimum fare" anyway? I must admit, when I first read this, I had the impression wat you were really suggesting is that rather than pay whatever the rate was, and tip on top of that at the end, what you were suggesting is the driver run the call in the shadow of the shadow economy. Are you asking them to BOTH run off app and undercut Uber with the idea that somehow, they would gain by not having to pay a cut to "Ol Man Ube?

Aside from the seriousproblem that to drive pax off app is to drive pax without any kind of insurance...... In so many markets, base rates are low to the point of being quite pathetic. I couldn't imagine being interested in driving a person outside of the clutches of Uber for their base rates.

I have to ask....... Why not just tip the guy and be done? Why make it so complicated? Do you feel you need to somehow benefit?


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## ocbob2 (Aug 18, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you for your response. I just rode Uber today for the 1st time. It seems that many of my drivers today were not happy with pay structure. Why aren't more Uber drivers doing these types of practices to keep more money in their pockets?


If we bring it up, the pax can be pissed and bring it up to Uber. That is deactivation. Also, no insurance covers the ride so some drivers don't want the chance.


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## ocbob2 (Aug 18, 2015)

Huberis said:


> What do you mean "for only the minimum fare" anyway? I must admit, when I first read this, I had the impression wat you were really suggesting is that rather than pay whatever the rate was, and tip on top of that at the end, what you were suggesting is the driver run the call in the shadow of the shadow economy. Are you asking them to BOTH run off app and undercut Uber with the idea that somehow, they would gain by not having to pay a cut to "Ol Man Ube?
> 
> Aside from the seriousproblem that to drive pax off app is to drive pax without any kind of insurance...... In so many markets, base rates are low to the point of being quite pathetic. I couldn't imagine being interested in driving a person outside of the clutches of Uber for their base rates.
> 
> I have to ask....... Why not just tip the guy and be done? Why make it so complicated? Do you feel you need to somehow benefit?


The OP feels bad for us and wants to screw Uber and give the rest of the fare amount to the driver. So if the ride is stopped after 2 miles, the driver can figure out the rest of the trip by calculating from his gps the miles and time and get cash upfront.


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## BramasoleATX (Aug 10, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Can I request a driver for only for the minimum fare & pay them in cash to my final destination?


"Can I"? - yes you can do anything you want.

"Should you"? - no. If there were an accident you will have zero insurance coverage.
If you are trying to help the driver, just add a cash tip at the end of your regular ride.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

ocbob2 said:


> The OP feels bad for us and wants to screw Uber and give the rest of the fare amount to the driver. So if the ride is stopped after 2 miles, the driver can figure out the rest of the trip by calculating from his gps the miles and time and get cash upfront.


Rather than simply tip? I wouldn't expect the OP to realize that once the trip was ended, he was asking to be ten driven without proper liability insurance.

It seems like an opportunity for the pax to save money somehow..... In a taxi, the person simply tips at the end. Why would a pac feel a need to do this unless they either somehow wanted to save some money themselves?

ocbob2, remember that recent thread over the guy in Boston who gave out his referral code? This kind of reminds me of having the possibility to go in that direction.

Why is is so damn hard within the world of Uber just to get a damn tip? Excepting surge, in mature markets, rates are pretty damn low. In order to get a tip, why should a driver need to wheel and deal like this? I don't wish to put the OP on the hot seat. He asked a valid question and this is an interesting enough thread.

As a taxi driver, my interest is that I don't want such concerns to become common place within the working part of the economy I work within.

It just shouldn't be so hard or complicated. Tip or don't tip. Asking a driver to collude with them by driving off app, is not going in the right direction.

A pax could just as easily tip, and then when he rates the driver make mention of having done just that for the purpose that the base rate seem too low, or they aren't comfortable with Uber's proclamation that tips are included based on personal research.

The intentions may be perfectly good, but it is too close to a hustle, not a good direction.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

I should admit, this kind of "let's stick it to the so called middle man and each of us will make a buck kind of deal is a pet peeve of mine. From time to time, though less and less often, I hear, "You don't need to run that meter buddy, you are getting ten dollars regardless." "Screw you" I'm thinking, this is a $12 dollar run...... WHen I read this thread, it get processed through that 15 year old filter.


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## ashevillecabbie (Sep 4, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Why aren't more Uber drivers doing these types of practices to keep more money in their pockets?


Because there aren't many customers like yourself who care if their driver makes a living wage.


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## ReviTULize (Sep 29, 2014)

Huberis said:


> What do you mean "for only the minimum fare" anyway? I must admit, when I first read this, I had the impression wat you were really suggesting is that rather than pay whatever the rate was, and tip on top of that at the end, what you were suggesting is the driver run the call in the shadow of the shadow economy. Are you asking them to BOTH run off app and undercut Uber with the idea that somehow, they would gain by not having to pay a cut to "Ol Man Ube?
> 
> Aside from the seriousproblem that to drive pax off app is to drive pax without any kind of insurance...... In so many markets, base rates are low to the point of being quite pathetic. I couldn't imagine being interested in driving a person outside of the clutches of Uber for their base rates.
> 
> I have to ask....... Why not just tip the guy and be done? Why make it so complicated? Do you feel you need to somehow benefit?


Exactly! All Uber fares are "minimum"!!


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

GrandpaD said:


> If the driver "completes" the minimum fare ride in the app and then continues on with you in the vehicle, you better hope he has good insurance. Uber's insurance stops when the app says the ride is completed.


Thank you for your response! I think this could work very well for licensed ground transportation service providers to get away using the Uber software without paying high overpriced fees.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you for your response! I think this could work very well for licensed ground transportation service providers to get away using the Uber software without paying high overpriced fees.


Yup it would need to be someone with proper insurance. Uber does not encourage their drivers to get commercial insurance. I would assume that is because they do not want their drivers building their own clientele. That may be another reason why so many cities have such low rates- it makes it almost impossible for an Uberx driver to undercut Uber off app. Does Uber allow UberX drivers to even carry commercial insurance? I believe their was a time they did not actual allow it. Uber is much more comfortable with rideshare insurance which leaves a driver feling a bit more secure, but still unable to do their own thing too.

The fees are 20% plus a buck. Is it accurate to say the fees are too high? The rates/mile in mature markets are very low. The system is unstable and disruptive from a drivers perspective. Too high, too low, most people are paying a commission to get jerked around. There is nothing special about Uber's app or technology. Their stroke of genius was to transfer car ownership to the driver and classify them as independent contractors. That allowed them to only dispatch only idle cars. They move quicker than regulation, mostly and up until the present.

The app itself, nothing special....... Unlike Lyft, they don't try quite so hard to hide their ruthlessness. I have seen a taxi app that functions better as an actual app.

Good thread and good luck. Sounds as if you need a driver with commercial insurance and his own car. I think.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Nope - it won't work.
> If you request a driver through the app, the driver accepts and arrives to pick you up, and you complete the trip... Uber is going to charge your account for at least the min fare. If you cancel the trip 5 minutes after making the request, Uber is going to charge you the cancellation fee.
> 
> You could jump through hoops to do what you want, but it's not worth it. And most importantly, if you ride on a trip with an Uber driver without the app - YOU are uninsured in the event of an accident.
> ...


Thank you for taking time to respond! Would it be worth it if I needed a ride home 70 miles away after a night of drinking? Why would you want to pay Uber 20% of your grand slam run? Wouldn't it be nice to have the option to choose or refuse your clients?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you for taking time to respond! Would it be worth it if I needed a ride home 70 miles away after a night of drinking? Why would you want to pay Uber 20% of your grand slam run? Wouldn't it be nice to have the option to choose or refuse your clients?


You would book at surge prices? What is in it for you? Why not just tip? What do you care about the 20%? That 20% buys into a system willing to charge basement rates when convenient or through the roof when needed. It is 20% they take liability insurance comes from that. Why not just tip 15 % and be done.

Would you tip the driver 15% above and beyond what they calculated?

Depending on rate structure, a 70 mile run is not always a grand slam. $1/mile, one way??? That is no grand slam. A 70 mile run can be nice and fine, wouldn't call it a grand slam. Should be solid at a reasonable rate.


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

uber has built a system and I would not accept a ride request that came through uber to continue as a non-uber ride.

Uber minimum ride Not very profitable? Yes
Unethical and wrong to "street hail"? Yes

I wouldn't take more risks than necessary.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Huberis said:


> You would book at surge prices? What is in it for you? Why not just tip? What do you care about the 20%? That 20% buys into a system willing to charge basement rates when convenient or through the roof when needed. It is 20% they take liability insurance comes from that. Why not just tip 15 % and be done.
> 
> Would you tip the driver 15% above and beyond what they calculated?
> 
> Depending on rate structure, a 70 mile run is not always a grand slam. $1/mile, one way??? That is no grand slam. A 70 mile run can be nice and fine, wouldn't call it a grand slam. Should be solid at a reasonable rate.


Thank you! I like what you said and I would say this is another reason why I think all Uber drivers should be properly insured and licensed. Wouldn't you like to do your own surge pricing without interference from Uber? If you have a problematic customer wouldn't it be nice to have the option to price them out and have another company deal with them. If someone wants to go 3 blocks away on Saturday night wouldn't you like the power to charge them what is fair? Face to face connections with clients will always bring you closer which will result in more money in your pocket. It is easy for Uber riders not to tip drivers because Uber makes it easy for us to leave and not show our faces with the embarrassment of not tipping. You are tipped with stars not money in their eyes. I don't understand why drivers are paying so much for something that can be done for free on Google Latitude. If Uber technology is so revolutionary why don't they use their own fleet like Fed Ex? It seems like driving for Uber is equivalent to taking out a payday loan with your car.


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## ashevillecabbie (Sep 4, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> uber has built a system and I would not accept a ride request that came through uber to continue as a non-uber ride.
> 
> Uber minimum ride Not very profitable? Yes
> Unethical and wrong to "street hail"? Yes
> ...


I don't understand some of the responses here.

It was/is unethical to start carrying pax for profit in a market like Tampa, where Uber is _still_ illegal, technically, but that doesn't bother you? Not trying to single you out, UberXTampa, but the fact remains that UberX is _still_ nothing but a huge ********* scam. It's unethical and wrong for Uber to continue to do business in such markets as Tampa, but that doesn't stop any of you from participating.

So why this reluctance for infringing on _Uber'_s "turf"?


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

ashevillecabbie said:


> I don't understand some of the responses here.
> 
> It was/is unethical to start carrying pax for profit in a market like Tampa, where Uber is _still_ illegal, technically, but that doesn't bother you? Not trying to single you out, UberXTampa, but the fact remains that UberX is _still_ nothing but a huge ********* scam. It's unethical and wrong for Uber to continue to do business in such markets as Tampa, but that doesn't stop any of you from participating.
> 
> So why this reluctance for infringing on _Uber'_s "turf"?


Because it is wrong and has the potential of getting you into much bigger trouble it shouldn't be done. 
Besides, ethics are internal and they are your value system. 
You don't become bad because there are bad people and bad companies. You get into bigger problems. 
If that customer trying to save a buck gets into an accident while not covered by Uber's $1,000,000.00 liability insurance, you will be on the hook for it.


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## BramasoleATX (Aug 10, 2015)

Commercial insurance for one vehicle can run $3000-$5000/yr for a new commercial driver. That is why most drivers don't have it.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you for taking time to respond! Would it be worth it if I needed a ride home 70 miles away after a night of drinking? Why would you want to pay Uber 20% of your grand slam run? Wouldn't it be nice to have the option to choose or refuse your clients?


Sure... and drivers CAN do that - if they get a job as a taxi driver.
Or even offer casual rides services in most cities - but they may still have the insurance problem.
But to do that legally and insured, a driver, operating a for-hire-service needs a vehicle registered as 'livery', and possibly a CDL.

More importantly - why would a driver use the Uber APP to find customers - and then steal from Uber?
Is that the kind of person YOU want driving you 70 miles?

And by the way... if a driver is driving you 70 miles and they have little chance of getting a paid return trip from another pax... you can expect that driver to turn you down unless you offer to tip them upfront to cover the return miles.

As someone said earlier: Just tip your Uber driver.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you! I like what you said and I would say this is another reason why I think all Uber drivers should be properly insured and licensed. Wouldn't you like to do your own surge pricing without interference from Uber? If you have a problematic customer wouldn't it be nice to have the option to price them out and have another company deal with them. If someone wants to go 3 blocks away on Saturday night wouldn't you like the power to charge them what is fair? Face to face connections with clients will always bring you closer which will result in more money in your pocket. It is easy for Uber riders not to tip drivers because Uber makes it easy for us to leave and not show our faces with the embarrassment of not tipping. You are tipped with stars not money in their eyes. I don't understand why drivers are paying so much for something that can be done for free on Google Latitude. If Uber technology is so revolutionary why don't they use their own fleet like Fed Ex? It seems like driving for Uber is equivalent to taking out a payday loan with your car.


For one, I have been saying all along, the technology is nothing special. Find where I suggest the technology is a miracle of any kind. WHAT IS REVOLUTIONARY....... is what UBer has done with respect to ownership of the cars. They have transferred the burden onto the drivers themselves. ALso, they move quicker than regulation, quicker than municipalities are able to educate themselves as to what is happening.

"If Uber technology is so revolutionary why don't they use their own fleet like Fed Ex?" You need out more thought into this. You focus on a number, 20% is too high a rate to be paying to Uber. 20% of what? Crappy rates. How is it that Uber can manage to have such low rates in most places? Simple, they do not own the cars. Not only do that not want to own their own cars, but it allows them recruit a fleet of drivers designed to handle peak hours.

"If you have a problematic customer wouldn't it be nice to have the option to price them out and have another company deal with them." If they are a pain in the ass, I just do my best and move on. It is in no way ethical to charge a pax more because they aren't so cool. In the taxi world, we aren't allowed to give free rides or discounts. Everyone pays the same price, it is part of being a common carrier. Drivers should not be able to simply create fares based on how likable a pax is. If someone is being a true problem and making it hard for me to drive or owes me money, I don not need to price them out. I can simply refuse them service.

"If someone wants to go 3 blocks away on Saturday night wouldn't you like the power to charge them what is fair?" Short little trips on a busy Saturday night can be quite lucrative. They are a part of the pie. Such calls take a driver to other calls. I drive taxi not Uber. Dispatchers will try to work me to and from a short call. Drivers should absolutely not be able to make up some arbitrary rate just because the call was an inconvenient. That is bs.

Driving for Uber is meant to be a very casual affair. In the end, it costs you your car. Maintaining one car while saving up for the next is pretty tough, tough enough that Uber knows they are better off not trying. Commercial insurance is quite expensive. Also, in most states, proper tags and licensing becomes necessary. Under that mode of operation- what makes you believe you would then be allowed to charge surge pricing at all?

You never answered my question? Would you be paying the driver off app the rate Uber was charging during a surge? I have had this conversation more than once with people in my taxi. For one, I'm not certain you are reading what I have to say accurately. I never said the technology was extraordinary. My claim is it is quite ordinary. Your premise is based entirely on assumption and notions you have of "Gee, wouldn't that be nice?"

Go back and put some thought, do your homework as to why Uber doesn't own a fleet of cars for example. You may have fine intentions, you do not however have a basic understanding of what this kind of work is about. Yet you keep insisting you have a way of improving the driver pax relationship somehow? I'm not even sure why you care or what you want out of it.

What do you hope to get from this and how would you benefit? At some point, you either need to do some research or drive for hire.... then get back to us. I see no evidence you understand the livery industry at all.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

GrandpaD said:


> If the driver "completes" the minimum fare ride in the app and then continues on with you in the vehicle, you better hope he has good insurance. Uber's insurance stops when the app says the ride is completed.


Excellent point. The Uber insurance is pretty much worthless anyway, but taking cash fares puts the driver in a ZERO insurance situation. Very, very bad idea.


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

Desert Driver said:


> Excellent point. The Uber insurance is pretty much worthless anyway, but taking cash fares puts the driver in a ZERO insurance situation. Very, very bad idea unless driver is carrying commercial livery insurance on his own.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Desert Driver said:


> Excellent point. The Uber insurance is pretty much worthless anyway, but taking cash fares puts the driver in a ZERO insurance situation. Very, very bad idea.


The driver is already in a mostly zero insurance situation... 
but when a pax is riding 'off the app' THEY are the one with zero insurance coverage 
because neither Uber or the driver's personal policy will cover the ride.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

BramasoleATX said:


> Commercial insurance for one vehicle can run $3000-$5000/yr for a new commercial driver. That is why most drivers don't have it.


Thank you! How much do Uber drivers pay Uber in fees over the course of a year? Wouldn't it be worth it to just be insured and figure out ways to bypass Uber with the technology available to you?


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## Desert Driver (Nov 9, 2014)

BramasoleATX said:


> Commercial insurance for one vehicle can run $3000-$5000/yr for a new commercial driver. That is why most drivers don't have it.


That is true. $4200 per year is the average for commercial livery insurance. But driving without adequate insurance coverage is insanity. $4200 will seem small after the legal actions start against the driver who was involved in at at-fault accident.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you! How much do Uber drivers pay Uber in fees over the course of a year?


The $$'s are different for each driver, of course... but it ranges from 20% to 30% of the fares.


> Wouldn't it be worth it to just be insured and figure out ways to bypass Uber with the technology available to you?


What?
Just how do you propose an individual 'bypass' the Uber or Lyft apps and keep busy enough to make driving worthwhile?
Do you have any concept of how efficient and omnipresent the Uber app is creating the marketplace that connects riders to drivers?
To be more direct: A driver fulltime driver generating $50,000/yr in fares would have to spend 10-20% of that revenue just on a commercial liability policy, be limited in what they could charge due to the competition (Uber/Lyft rates) AND not have access to the marketplace that supplies the riders.

So, no... it would not be beneficial to a driver.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you! How much do Uber drivers pay Uber in fees over the course of a year? Wouldn't it be worth it to just be insured and figure out ways to bypass Uber with the technology available to you?


You tell us. What would be the actual expenses and required licensing in your state? Have you checked it out? How bout you give us a call on figures for commercial insurance for where you live along with the associated regulations and requirements, then get back to us?

You're like a broken record.

Uber gets their 20% regardless. Do you think Uber makes much in the way of profit themselves? For 20%, a driver gets a kind of dispatching and a company willing to send lawyers and lobby local governments on behalf of their cause.

Gives us an idea of what it would look like in your town. How much for insurance, fees and then pricing structure. Usually, such costs mean the car now needs to be on the road more than single person could muster....... You could easily need to hire another person to keep the car in motion more.

Do some homework man.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Sure... and drivers CAN do that - if they get a job as a taxi driver.
> Or even offer casual rides services in most cities - but they may still have the insurance problem.
> But to do that legally and insured, a driver, operating a for-hire-service needs a vehicle registered as 'livery', and possibly a CDL.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I personally would be thrilled if a driver took the initiative to think for themselves and stash the cash for themselves to keep money in the local economy. I really don't think Uber has the drivers best interest in mind. Why are so many drivers so unhappy while riders are as happy as can be?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> The $$'s are different for each driver, of course... but it ranges from 20% to 30% of the fares.
> 
> What?
> Just how do you propose an individual 'bypass' the Uber or Lyft apps and keep busy enough to make driving worthwhile?
> ...


Amen. The Uber app is pretty much ubiquitous. That is worth something. That is their promise.. Everyone has their app. To just go off cowboying would cost a driver way more than 20%. Do drivers develop their own business? Yes, but within the framework of something more than just themselves and their one car for the most part.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you! I personally would be thrilled if a driver took the initiative to think for themselves and stash the cash for themselves to keep money in the local economy. I really don't think Uber has the drivers best interest in mind. Why are so many drivers so unhappy while riders are as happy as can be?


Do you tip?


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> The $$'s are different for each driver, of course... but it ranges from 20% to 30% of the fares.
> 
> What?
> Just how do you propose an individual 'bypass' the Uber or Lyft apps and keep busy enough to make driving worthwhile?
> ...


How much in $$$ would you pay fees to Uber in one year? Would tho be enough to offset the cost of commercial insurance?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> How much in $$$ would you pay fees to Uber in one year? Would tho be enough to offset the cost of commercial insurance?


What are the costs of such insurance in Scottsdale and what are the associated regulations? Good grief.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Huberis said:


> Do you tip?


Yes, I always tip cab drivers. I used Uber for the first time the other day and was shocked to find out the app doesn't prompt you to tip.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Yes, I always tip cab drivers. I used Uber for the first time the other day and was shocked to find out the app doesn't prompt you to tip.


It would be one thing for Uber to suggest the system is both cashless and tipping is not needed. They take it a step further to suggest that the tip is included. It is not included. 20% is just a number. In my opinion, and it isn't worth al that much, you seem to need to go and do some homework, put a bit of thought into what the drivers here are sharing with you.

Nothing seems to be even registering in the most basic way. Based on your response to what the drivers here are sharing with you, it is all going in one ear and out the other.

I am going to assume your intentions are genuine. You simply need to do some real homework, maybe do some driving for Uber as if that is a guaranteed learning experience. It isn't.

This thread is going nowhere. It is like talking to a well intentioned brick wall. If your concerns are genuine, please look back through the thread, find some of the meaningful points made by various drivers and give them some thought. You premise is based on a concept of something other than a driver's reality.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Why are so many drivers so unhappy while riders are as happy as can be?


In a word... 
no - make that:* 
In a single character: $*


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

If your tipping your driver, you are ahead of the game as a pax. You have done your part. Running off app is just an attempt to jerk a jerkoff. Uber needs serious reform in order to improve the relationship with their partners. It does however currently allow for casual work in an industry which is tough to do in a full time, legit way.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Huberis said:


> If your tipping your driver, you are ahead of the game as a pax. You have done your part. Running off app is just an attempt to jerk a jerkoff. Uber needs serious reform in order to improve the relationship with their partners. It does however currently allow for casual work in an industry which is tough to do in a full time, legit way.


Thank you for sharing your comments. Let me ask you this. Why as a commercial ground transport service provider would you need to pay Uber during peak times such as Saturday? Why do you need them? What value are they providing you when it is busy already? Why would you not just use Uber for your own convenience just as they are doing with you?


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## Battlecruiser (Sep 22, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you for sharing your comments. Let me ask you this. Why as a commercial ground transport service provider would you need to pay Uber during peak times such as Saturday? Why do you need them? What value are they providing you when it is busy already? Why would you not just use Uber for your own convenience just as they are doing with you?


Insurance and the appearance of legitimacy...Mostly insurance

Edit: I would like to change my answer to just "insurance"


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Perhaps drivers should focus more on the Uber system they chose to be in bed with instead of focusing on riders tips making or breaking them.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> The $$'s are different for each driver, of course... but it ranges from 20% to 30% of the fares.
> 
> What?
> Just how do you propose an individual 'bypass' the Uber or Lyft apps and keep busy enough to make driving worthwhile?
> ...


A Number please.. how much money?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

"Why are so many drivers so unhappy while riders are as happy as can be?"

Uber's ability to transfer responsibility of ownership to the driver while insisting on and succeeding in defining themselves as merely a technology has enabled Uber to put a driver on the corner during peak hours when people are most impatient to get home. It also allows Uber to keep prices very low. They aren't concerned with the costs of ownership nor do they need to make a profit due to financial backing and other projects concerning intellectual property. 

It enabled them to turn reality on its head. Uber is designed for peak volume, leave no business on the table, the app is on every phone waiting to e exploited. The drivers need to figure out the rest. Even under the best circumstances, a driver isn't going to be around long. 

Pax are happy via cheap fares in mature markets with a fleet designed to address peak demand. It isn't sustainable for drivers. The system thrives on disruption and playing off uncertainty. Going solo isn't an option for most Uber drivers lured in by it being billed as causal side work in the first place.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Huberis said:


> It would be one thing for Uber to suggest the system is both cashless and tipping is not needed. They take it a step further to suggest that the tip is included. It is not included. 20% is just a number. In my opinion, and it isn't worth al that much, you seem to need to go and do some homework, put a bit of thought into what the drivers here are sharing with you.
> 
> Nothing seems to be even registering in the most basic way. Based on your response to what the drivers here are sharing with you, it is all going in one ear and out the other.
> 
> ...


The only reason someone should ever drive for Uber is if they had a legitimate immediate emergency like feeding their family. Why are drivers participating in a system they know is intentionally screwing them?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Perhaps drivers should focus more on the Uber system they chose to be in bed with instead of focusing on riders tips making or breaking them.


Now you are hinting at the right track. The tip issue, the peer to peer rating system abuse. Those are in fact symptoms of a greater issue. To do what you are saying is easier said than done and it would be virtually impossible to do without lawyers or working with legislators on the behalf of the drivers. Most drivers are going to shy away from those options.

Just to talk to Uber isn't going to cut it. That is why they higher CSR drones and never leave contact numbers for their drivers to reach them when reps show up for a cheerleading recruitment session. They come and go in a shroud of mystery, only to be seen again when they deem it necessary.

Drivers are virtually seen as disposable. New drivers bring new cars.

This thread is pointing in the right direction for inquiry I'd venture to bet.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> The only reason someone should ever drive for Uber is if they had a legitimate immediate emergency like feeding their family. Why are drivers participating in a system they know is intentionally screwing them?


They are told otherwise and want to believe in what they are being told. The average pax believes their driver is making bank. The pax themselves may remeber the time when their market was new and rates were sky high in order to recruit new drivers before the big plummet. The pax remember those times, they by into the bs..... It is a culture of BS.

Desperate people will go to great lengths to make ends meet. Look at surge pricing. It is by demand, it is by measure of desperation. In my opinion, Uber is a horrible choice for someone in financial crisis. It would be far better for someone with a lot of money, is bored with their life or wife, has a nice car and just wants to get away but not to a bar. They can afford to cherry pick, keep it casual, don't need to account for expenses, but mostly they are just bored. It isn't for people in dire financial straights.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Perhaps drivers should focus more on the Uber system they chose to be in bed with instead of focusing on riders tips making or breaking them.


Perhaps you should disclose who you are and what it is you're trying to prove?
*Drivers should focus FIRST and FOREMOST on not losing money driving for Uber*.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> A Number please..


6


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## Battlecruiser (Sep 22, 2015)

Huberis said:


> They are told otherwise and want to believe in what they are being told. The average pax believes their driver is making bank. The pax themselves may remeber the time when their market was new and rates were sky high in order to recruit new drivers before the big plummet. The pax remember those times, they by into the bs..... It is a culture of BS.
> 
> Desperate people will go to great lengths to make ends meet. Look at surge pricing. It is by demand, it is by measure of desperation. In my opinion, Uber is a horrible choice for someone in financial crisis. It would be far better for someone with a lot of money, is bored with their life or wife, has a nice car and just wants to get away but not to a bar. They can afford to cherry pick, keep it casual, don't need to account for expenses, but mostly they are just bored. It isn't for people in dire financial straights.


agree, but...there are many of us who were able to cut their teeth in the early days and learned how to drive at a profit and can even now. It is still a difficult jump to licensed livery. I don't wish to start the learning curve over, driving a cab. I don't see that many cab drivers making the jump to cab company owners or licensed livery owner/operators. But since uber broke all the rules...right now...there are no rules. There is a short time before uber buys its own regulation making,the barrier worse than ever, where we can operate in the shadows and cross the great divide to legal operation. If uber sends a lead to me they will get their cut...I am not dishonest and that, is what I agreed to. But to those that inquire outside the app. I am a Driver, NOT an uber. Gloves are off.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Battlecruiser said:


> I am a Driver, NOT an uber.


Me, I am an UBER driver (or Lyft, or whatever).
I have no intention of ever driving full-time, long-term, independently, or as my sole means of earning income.
Like a lot of people, I lost money driving ride-share/sourcing when I started. Then the fares dropped significantly and I opted into SELECT and cut back my hours driving by a lot. Soon after that, I learned how to maximize earnings and minimize expenses... so I eked out a few bucks a week. Then the fares here went back up a bit... and I can earn a few hundred bucks a week driving part-time. If it becomes unprofitable again - or not worth the time it takes to earn a small amount, I'll stop driving again.

<shrug> That's how it is for me now.

I feel very sorry for anyone caught between the rock-and-a-hard-place of having to do this to pay the bills... because the chances are that as soon as their car dies or is wounded, they are left with no income AND no transportation.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Battlecruiser said:


> agree, but...there are many of us who were able to cut their teeth in the early days and learned how to drive at a profit and can even now. It is still a difficult jump to licensed livery. I don't wish to start the learning curve over, driving a cab. I don't see that many cab drivers making the jump to cab company owners or licensed livery owner/operators. But since uber broke all the rules...right now...there are no rules. There is a short time before uber buys its own regulation making,the barrier worse than ever, where we can operate in the shadows and cross the great divide to legal operation. If uber sends a lead to me they will get their cut...I am not dishonest and that, is what I agreed to. But to those that inquire outside the app. I am a Driver, NOT an uber. Gloves are off.


Not only do you not see a lot of taxi drivers jumping to start their on taxi companies, I don' think nearly as many are jumping ship to drive Uber as they used to in Uber's early years. There are exceptions. I do know two former taxi drivers who in fact have their own taxi companies. One bought an existing company and does well.

Given the amount of work and grief, hoops and hurdles, if you are a Joe Blow looking to go into business for yourself, this is a tough tough time to do it. Uber thrives on disruption. Their livery industry seems to be mostly part of an elaborate Ponzi scheme. They personally don't seem to feel a need to make money within that sphere of their operations. The TNC work gives reason for everyone and their uncle to have the app on their phone. Travis is a great study of personal pattern and habit. Uber provides him great insight and opportunity to develop other technologies to be patented and licensed.

If Uber is the one to get the first driver-less car on the road, it will not be so they can suddenly own a fleet of such cars. It will e for them to to license out the technology. Travis is using TNC to leverage other enterprises and as a result, what was tough for some to do on their own is only going to get tougher.

Some suggest that once Uber destroys its competition in a particular market (has et to truly happen), they will raise their rates back up. Think again. It is unlikely. With all that in mind, this is a tough time to try to get a private business going within this industry unless you really truly crave it for some personal reason. Such a go getter could surely find better return elsewhere.


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## jrboy (Sep 14, 2015)

GrandpaD said:


> If the driver "completes" the minimum fare ride in the app and then continues on with you in the vehicle, you better hope he has good insurance. Uber's insurance stops when the app says the ride is completed.


uber doesn't cover you always. i was in an accident and i had to pay a $1000 deductible. same price as damage.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Uber's insurance is focused on pax and third party liability concerns.


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## Battlecruiser (Sep 22, 2015)

Huberis said:


> Uber's insurance is focused on pax and third party liability concerns.


once the limits of Uber's insurance are maxed out I would think the driver is back on the hook as well


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

I thought tha


Michael - Cleveland said:


> 6


42 is the meaning of life if you believe Douglas Adams. 42.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Have you noticed you you don't see many (ie: ANY) hitch-hikers anymore.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Nobody cares about 42 now that they have twitter and social media.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> The $$'s are different for each driver, of course... but it ranges from 20% to 30% of the fares.
> 
> What?
> Just how do you propose an individual 'bypass' the Uber or Lyft apps and keep busy enough to make driving worthwhile?
> ...


Thank you! I like what you said could you please respond to these questions. Why as a commercial ground transport service provider would you need to pay Uber during peak times such as Saturday nights? Why do you need them during peak times? What value are they providing you when it is busy already? Why would you not just use Uber for your own convenience just as they are doing with you?


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Huberis said:


> Amen. The Uber app is pretty much ubiquitous. That is worth something. That is their promise.. Everyone has their app. To just go off cowboying would cost a driver way more than 20%. Do drivers develop their own business? Yes, but within the framework of something more than just themselves and their one car for the most part.


Thank you! I like what you said could you please respond to these questions. Why as a commercial ground transport service provider would you need to pay Uber during peak times such as Saturday nights? Why do you need them during peak times? What value are they providing you when it is busy already? Why would you not just use Uber for your own convenience just as they are doing with you?


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you! How much do Uber drivers pay Uber in fees over the course of a year? Wouldn't it be worth it to just be insured and figure out ways to bypass Uber with the technology available to you?


I am currently building my own Ebay and Amazon and when I am done with these projects I will build my own Uber and bypass Uber to save me that $1.00 Stupid Rider Fee.

/sarc


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> I am currently building my own Ebay and Amazon and when I am done with these projects I will build my own Uber and bypass Uber to save me that $1.00 Stupid Rider Fee.
> 
> /sarc


Thank you! I like what you said could you please respond to these questions. Why as a commercial ground transport service provider would you need to pay Uber during peak times such as Saturday nights? Why do you need them during peak times? What value are they providing you when it is busy already? Why would you not just use Uber for your own convenience just as they are doing with you?


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## UberXTampa (Nov 20, 2014)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you! I like what you said could you please respond to these questions. Why as a commercial ground transport service provider would you need to pay Uber during peak times such as Saturday nights? Why do you need them during peak times? What value are they providing you when it is busy already? Why would you not just use Uber for your own convenience just as they are doing with you?


You first sir!
Lead the way, show us proof it is achievable. Without getting fired from Uber or Lyft while using their platforms and not benefiting them.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> You first sir!
> Lead the way, show us proof it is achievable. Without getting fired from Uber or Lyft while using their platforms and not benefiting them.





UberXTampa said:


> You first sir!
> Lead the way, show us proof it is achievable. Without getting fired from Uber or Lyft while using their platforms and not benefiting them.


Why don't you have an legitimate answer for the questions I specifically asked personally from you?


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Why don't you have an legitimate answer for the questions I specifically asked personally from you?


Why don't you have an legitimate answer for the questions I specifically asked personally from you?


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## BramasoleATX (Aug 10, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Why don't you have an legitimate answer for the questions I specifically asked personally from you?


The trolling is strong in this thread.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you! I like what you said could you please respond to these questions. Why as a commercial ground transport service provider would you need to pay Uber during peak times such as Saturday nights? Why do you need them during peak times? What value are they providing you when it is busy already? Why would you not just use Uber for your own convenience just as they are doing with you?


A person already is using Uber for their own convenience to a certain extent. It allows for livery work in the most casual sense by far. Despite all the *****ing and moaning, a person gets a lot in return for their 20% even if it comes with a fair share of abuse too. For one, without it, you would have zero liability for pax and 3rd parties. It is one thing for a person to risk invalidating their own policy or creating gaps concerning collision, this is a who other level. It is beyond stupid.

It is not as simple as just going out and getting commercial insurance on your car. You don't just call your prudential agent and say "Hey You big guy! Switch my policy over to commercial insurance." It doesn't work that way. Once you get commercial insurance, you would then need licensing and perhaps a PUC number, some sort of PUC approval, a business plan. You would likely be required to create a rate schedule and petition the PUC with it. Every State is different.

The convenience is that you work, sort of anyway, when you want to. Their network of calls is going to be much more vast than anything you could generate. About the only time this might have any kind of relevance would be in a market saturated with drivers. It would be a risk, one that people take, it would be a pain in the ass and not worth it.

I doubt a driver freelancing during peak hours would be able to do better than logging on the app and taking Uber calls and accepting the fee. For a bunch of reasons. The surge alone. Why the hell would a pax accept a surge rate off app and not expect to save at least 20% when for the most part, in most places, surges at worst don't last too long?

Arguably it is during non peak times, at least in my mind when a driver would be most tempted to take calls under the radar and off app, particularly if the market is saturated with drivers. You would be most tempted because your margins are likely to be lower (no surge) and the time between calls is likely to be greater. That is the time you want your personal business. Maybe.

So, answering questions: have you looked up the requirements for having commercial insurance in Arizona and your municipality? What kind of tags and licensing? Who has authority? I'd assume some sort of PUC. What kind of markings on the car would you need? You seem to assume you could charge as you please is that correct?

I don't believe there is much we can offer you to make this more clear for you. People do go off cowboying as one PUC officer described it to me, but it simply wouldn't work as you imagine possible. You would be taking on all sorts of extra expenses, fees and regulations just to save 20% during the ONE TIME, the one time when Uber tends to really work for its drivers and that is peak, balls to the wall busy periods.

What are the regulations in you area for doing this? How easy is it to even figure out what you would need to do?

Finally, why on earth would an Uber driver or should an Uber driver concern themselves with a 20% commission, when half of them probably ignore any and all other costs to operate? What makes this cost so special. Go out out and run the way you propose for a few months and report back to us.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Why don't you have an legitimate answer for the questions I specifically asked personally from you?


If you are so committed to your protocol to drive off app, rather than asking drivers so many questions, again and again with the apparent hope that at some point, your proposal will be found to be supported by their answers, do your work and brings us something worth our time, energy and effort.

What does it take to get commercial insurance in Arizona and what does it mean once you get it.

If you are unable to offer that, I am going to be done with this thread. This is more like being asked by a third grader repeatedly for a something with the idea that if they ask you enough, eventually you are going to give in and give them the response they want to hear.

I do not hear dissent worth noticing from among actual drivers here. Do you? Your questions are purely based on the asumptions of someone who doesn't seem to have the slightest clue.

I want that paper on my desk by tomorrow morning. No excuses the dog ate it. We need to get you a picture of a badger for your avatar.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Why would you not just use Uber for your own convenience just as they are doing with you?


That is precisely what all drivers do.
We use Uber to provide match-ups with riders and handle all of the commerce portions of the service we provide (as well as for the insurance arrangement they make to protect riders, for which Uber charges the rider $1/ride).

The problem is, that in return for paying Uber for the services they provide drivers,
we have to relinquish ALL control over what we charge riders along with
too much of the control over who we provide serves to (or don't),
and we have to live with the consequences of Uber's 'vision' of what OUR service is to the rider:
'cashless' and 'tip-less',
and we have to suffer the consequences of a 'rating system' that is anonymous to us
and provides drivers with no due process recourse.

Without significantly more control over those elements,
drivers are not Independent Contractors making use of a technology, as Uber asserts,
but employees of a company that is providing transportation services - 
something Uber adamantly denies.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberXTampa said:


> I am currently building my own Ebay and Amazon and when I am done with these projects I will build my own Uber and bypass Uber


hehe... right with ya, buddy!



> ...to save me that $1.00 Stupid Rider Fee.


Oh no, not again. PLEASE stop with SRF BS.
*If Uber stopped charging the SRF this minute, 
it would not put one additional dime in a driver's pocket.*
If Uber then reinstated the SRF, it would not take would dime out of a driver's pocket.

THE SRF IS A NON-ISSUE.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> That is precisely what all drivers do.
> We use Uber to provide match-ups with riders and handle all of the commerce portions of the service we provide (as well as for the insurance arrangement they make to protect riders, for which Uber charges the rider $1/ride).
> 
> The problem is, that in return for paying Uber for the services they provide drivers,
> ...


Well said.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> That is precisely what all drivers do.
> We use Uber to provide match-ups with riders and handle all of the commerce portions of the service we provide (as well as for the insurance arrangement they make to protect riders, for which Uber charges the rider $1/ride).
> 
> The problem is, that in return for paying Uber for the services they provide drivers,
> ...





Michael - Cleveland said:


> That is precisely what all drivers do.
> We use Uber to provide match-ups with riders and handle all of the commerce portions of the service we provide (as well as for the insurance arrangement they make to protect riders, for which Uber charges the rider $1/ride).
> 
> The problem is, that in return for paying Uber for the services they provide drivers,
> ...


Thank you very nice insight but why would you want to pay Uber 10-20 thousand dollars per year to have Uber relinquish all control of your business and earnings as you stated? Also, do you honestly believe you are hustling Uber for your own convience?


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Huberis said:


> A person already is using Uber for their own convenience to a certain extent. It allows for livery work in the most casual sense by far. Despite all the *****ing and moaning, a person gets a lot in return for their 20% even if it comes with a fair share of abuse too. For one, without it, you would have zero liability for pax and 3rd parties. It is one thing for a person to risk invalidating their own policy or creating gaps concerning collision, this is a who other level. It is beyond stupid.
> 
> It is not as simple as just going out and getting commercial insurance on your car. You don't just call your prudential agent and say "Hey You big guy! Switch my policy over to commercial insurance." It doesn't work that way. Once you get commercial insurance, you would then need licensing and perhaps a PUC number, some sort of PUC approval, a business plan. You would likely be required to create a rate schedule and petition the PUC with it. Every State is different.
> 
> ...


Thank you! So you think it is better stategy to criss cross town fishing for pings competing with other drivers in the area in Midtown Manhattan on a Friday night instead of just picking up fares?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you! So you think it is better stategy to criss cross town fishing for pings competing with other drivers in the area in Midtown Manhattan on a Friday night instead of just picking up fares?


A driver would just stay put and just wait for a ping where they are. It is very efficient. As a taxi driver, if a could say for sure an Uber driver was running calls off app taking street hails, I'd want to cut his balls off and nail them to his forehead.

Good luck, tip your driver. Ask your next driver what he thinks about your ideas and be sure to tip him double for the trouble.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you! So you think it is better stategy to criss cross town fishing for pings competing with other drivers in the area in Midtown Manhattan on a Friday night instead of just picking up fares?


 I have already many years ago owned and operated a ground transportation service in Park City, Utah. It is really not that diffucult to obtain licencing and badging as Uber tries to make it out to be. Maybe , $500 total out the door for licencing and badging another $500 to start commerical insurance payments with the loan sharks. I have been there done that.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> I have already many years ago owned and operated a ground transportation service in Park City, Utah. It is really not that diffucult to obtain licencing and badging as Uber tries to make it out to be. Maybe , $500 total out the door for licencing and badging another $500 to start commerical insurance payments with the loan sharks. I have been there done that.


 BTW all fares were as you put it Cowboy negotiated. The supply and demand dictated the price. Customers really don't care if about price at bar closing they just want to get the Fhome.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

My suburb didn't even have taxi regulations until Uber hit Houston. Even now, as far as I know, there aren't any taxi companies based in the suburb, but I have seen one sad little private transportation car driving around. It has magnetic signs on the door that aren't even straight.

This suburb is the second fastest growing city in Texas. I could see where a private transport company might be viable, but it's not something I think I would want to do.

I Uber for extra cash. So far it's working for me.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Huberis said:


> A driver would just stay put and just wait for a ping where they are. It is very efficient. As a taxi driver, if a could say for sure an Uber driver was running calls off app taking street hails, I'd want to cut his balls off and nail them to his forehead.
> 
> Good luck, tip your driver. Ask your next driver what he thinks about your ideas and be sure to tip him double for the trouble.


 If another competing driver is staged right next to you at the cantina. How can you guarantee you will get the ping?


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Huberis said:


> A driver would just stay put and just wait for a ping where they are. It is very efficient. As a taxi driver, if a could say for sure an Uber driver was running calls off app taking street hails, I'd want to cut his balls off and nail them to his forehead.
> 
> Good luck, tip your driver. Ask your next driver what he thinks about your ideas and be sure to tip him double for the trouble.


Yes, that's why you see cabs parked in the shade with the driver sitting in the front seat reading the paper. They know better than to waste gas chasing street hails.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> If another competing driver is staged right next to you at the cantina. How can you guarantee you will get the ping?


Have you not been paying attention? I don't drive Uber. It isn't exactly a concern. I lease a taxi with commercial insurance. I do take flags. I do not however want to own my own car and go it alone.

As for guarantees. There are no guarantees ever. Unless apparently, you drive Uber and accept to work one of theirs. At that point, all you wnt to do is the bare minimum anyway.

Even though I can accept street flags, I stil prefer to accept dispatched calls for a couple of reasons. Within my system, I get calls lined up one behind the other. Also, any street hail is just as likely to be a dud of a call. The phone people weed out those who do not know where they are going, who are too drunk or looking for a fight.

My problem with Uber has nothing to do with the 20% per se. It has to do with the instability, mercurial relationship, the fact that Uber isn't self limiting.

I have been driving taxi for over fifteen years. Are there some hours of my work week were I can simply pull up to a curb and say "hey buddy, hop on in"? Yes there are. But there are not enough of them and I simply feel that greater network is very helpful.

As for ownership of a livery car. I'm not interested. Too much headache. Very tough way to make a go of.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> Yes, that's why you see cabs parked in the shade with the driver sitting in the front seat reading the paper. They know better than to waste gas chasing street hails.


The only time I have street hails to pick and choose from is when our phones are ringing off the hook. At night, when the bars are slamming and the town is littered with calls. I will get a general lineup of a few calls....... "This corner, that corner, the next bar etc if you don't find anyone ther, let me know what you find". I generally try to go to the first two places there is a call before take a flag at such times. The idea is to clear the calls off the board. Doing so makes lineups easier.

The OP should go out and do us, prove us otherwise. He is talking about Utah regulations, but lives in Arizona. I doubt they are the same.

What the hell is a ground transportation service?? Paratransit? Shuttle bus? Taxi? In PA, they all are regulated. Sure as hell can't just go out and do what you want, you can't negotiate a rate with pax. I wouldn't even want to.

I thought I was done with this thread. I can hear the echo.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Huberis said:


> The only time I have street hails to pick and choose from is when our phones are ringing off the hook. At night, when the bars are slamming and the town is littered with calls. I will get a general lineup of a few calls....... "This corner, that corner, the next bar etc if you don't find anyone ther, let me know what you find". I generally try to go to the first two places there is a call before take a flag at such times. The idea is to clear the calls off the board. Doing so makes lineups easier.
> 
> The OP should go out and do us, prove us otherwise. He is talking about Utah regulations, but lives in Arizona. I doubt they are the same.
> 
> ...


On Sept 10, Uber sent me a text asking for my help in supporting their efforts to reduce the amount of regulation in Houston. The next day, they announce that new partners as of Sept 11 would be charged a 28% commission instead of 20%.

Personally, I support the regulations. I think it benefits Uber and culls out the people who really shouldn't be driving for Uber. Uber, of course, wants more drivers in order to reduce customer wait time, so they want the regulations to be more lenient.

Anyway, not really going anywhere with this. Just saying.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> Yes, that's why you see cabs parked in the shade with the driver sitting in the front seat reading the paper. They know better than to waste gas chasing street hails.





Huberis said:


> Have you not been paying attention? I don't drive Uber. It isn't exactly a concern. I lease a taxi with commercial insurance. I do take flags. I do not however want to own my own car and go it alone.
> 
> As for guarantees. There are no guarantees ever. Unless apparently, you drive Uber and accept to work one of theirs. At that point, all you wnt to do is the bare minimum anyway.
> 
> ...


Thank you! It seems that Uber could possibly work better as a subscription based service facilitator for it's service providers. Why do they need to have a major hand in the cookie jar for all service providers fares if we can agree there is nothing so special about their software platform? Were talking about 10-20 thousand dollars a year for each driver that is leaving your hands and your community.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

The bottom line is drivers currently have little or no agency relative to Uber's claim that they are independent contractors and given the burden of car ownership. Something does need to be addressed to create balance where there is none. How that actually happens, I don't know given the casual nature of rideshare and instability of it all. 

I personally do not simply focus on when might the 205 commission be more or less warranted for example. It is the need for control and manipulation that bothers me more than the 20%. Much of what drivers worry about are only symptoms of bigger concerns.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Huberis said:


> The bottom line is drivers currently have little or no agency relative to Uber's claim that they are independent contractors and given the burden of car ownership. Something does need to be addressed to create balance where there is none. How that actually happens, I don't know given the casual nature of rideshare and instability of it all.
> 
> I personally do not simply focus on when might the 205 commission be more or less warranted for example. It is the need for control and manipulation that bothers me more than the 20%. Much of what drivers worry about are only symptoms of bigger concerns.


Part of the IC 'test' is that the IC uses their own tools. In our case it is our vehicles.

When I owned a staffing agency that used IC's to fill temp positions at hospitals, I didn't add any conditions beyond what the client hospital required. All I did was operate as a middle man putting together two parties, one party with a need, and another party with the ability to fill the need.

Uber wants the best of both worlds, control without the burden of employee responsibility. But then again, there are drivers here who want the benefits of being an employee, but want to do it on their own terms. It's all very interesting.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Huberis said:


> The bottom line is drivers currently have little or no agency relative to Uber's claim that they are independent contractors and given the burden of car ownership. Something does need to be addressed to create balance where there is none. How that actually happens, I don't know given the casual nature of rideshare and instability of it all.
> 
> I personally do not simply focus on when might the 205 commission be more or less warranted for example. It is the need for control and manipulation that bothers me more than the 20%. Much of what drivers worry about are only symptoms of bigger concerns.


Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. MLK

Unfortunately, we all sit in our own sht we create. Many of these issues such as bare fares, reliquished control, no tipping to name a few are the direct consequences of drivers concious active participation in a toxic system structure they already know exists.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. MLK
> 
> Unfortunately, we all sit in our own sht we create. Many of these issues such as bare fares, reliquished control, no tipping to name a few are the direct consequences of drivers concious active participation in a toxic system structure they already know exists.


Fair enough. That being said, the 20% is mostly just a number. In and of itself, I do not believe it means much. Uber is going to charge something. To believe a person can somehow game the system and game isn't quite right because you mention acquiring real commercial insurance.... It's just that Kalanick is not a great dancing partner.

I have had this conversation with a fellow taxi driver. The concept of rideshare in and of itself is just fine. It simply isn't sustainable with Uber and Lyft setting the standards of behavior. Great if you are a pax or driving in a new market, otherwise forget it. Someone else will need to come around. That could happen. I personally believe that is why even if the market were reduced to only Uber, it is unlikely rates would increase. It isn;t because travis wants riding Uber to be less than owning a car. He needs the rates to be rock bottom in the event that someone could easilty come along not hell bent on exploiting the drivers to such a degree. Lyft is only make believe about being nicer and kinder, they aren't where they need to be.

If the system is as toxic as I believe it to be, there is no working within it and trying to find some compromise or trick. Travis would need to leave for one. My feeling is the guy needs to be stood up to in order to keep him from allowing his proclivities to become accepted by our society as an expected hoop for a blue coller person to jump through routinely.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Huberis said:


> Fair enough. That being said, the 20% is mostly just a number. In and of itself, I do not believe it means much. Uber is going to charge something. To believe a person can somehow game the system and game isn't quite right because you mention acquiring real commercial insurance.... It's just that Kalanick is not a great dancing partner.
> 
> I have had this conversation with a fellow taxi driver. The concept of rideshare in and of itself is just fine. It simply isn't sustainable with Uber and Lyft setting the standards of behavior. Great if you are a pax or driving in a new market, otherwise forget it. Someone else will need to come around. That could happen. I personally believe that is why even if the market were reduced to only Uber, it is unlikely rates would increase. It isn;t because travis wants riding Uber to be less than owning a car. He needs the rates to be rock bottom in the event that someone could easilty come along not hell bent on exploiting the drivers to such a degree. Lyft is only make believe about being nicer and kinder, they aren't where they need to be.
> 
> If the system is as toxic as I believe it to be, there is no working within it and trying to find some compromise or trick. Travis would need to leave for one. My feeling is the guy needs to be stood up to in order to keep him from allowing his proclivities to become accepted by our society as an expected hoop for a blue coller person to jump through routinely.


Thank you for your valuable insight. I can't seem to understand why you think that paying Uber 2ok a year in fees isn't somehow a big deal. Realistically, there is a great chance if you are driving for Uber you are somehow at the point of having a life support job. How on earth can these people afford to pay 2ok a year to a company that really doesn't warrant that type of commission for such a common routine platform? Just because you are poor, broke and hungry you wouldn't or shouldn't pay $20 for a Big Mac right? That is because it wouldn't provide you the proper nutrition and vitamins to keep you alive that would warrant $20 worth of food. Adwords is something similar to Uber. Why doesn't Adwords charge 20% of sales to all their customers to match prospective clients with their matching goods & services? It is because the type of people that purchase Adwords wouldn't have it. Unfortunately, Uber has done a great job of exploiting the top poorest percentage of people at the worst point of desperation. Something that has been done time and time again. They have preyed and eaten the meat off the bones of people with no hope. The promises of driving blinged out cars, working on your own time and without any responsibility on your part. You have just given over your power to the slave master and eventually when your worth nothing to them in their eyes they will throw you out to deal with your even worst situation in the system of courts so you can deal with another new set of slave masters. Have you ever noticed driving a cab wealthy people are the biggest misers? Have you noticed in wealthy areas of town things actually cost less ? Just go to McDonalds in Compton and observe the prices then go over to the stores in Orange County and you will see night and day the difference in prices. The bottom line is if you are driving for Uber you are overpaying period. So why not just rebel against a system you consciously already know is toxic? You can choose to do this within guidelines of the company or illegally. Either way you will be positively actively engaging and actually doing something about the positive reform you are seeking. It's not really about what you know but what you actually do about what you know to make the positive changes you are seeking. Rebellion can actually be a very good way to get your message across to your oppressors . Great changes in oppressed societies have happened because of rebellion. ( Think Rosa Parks for example) It something that needs to happen for good things to take place. So, I would say if you can hustle Uber do it! Go out and get your commercial insurance and proper licencing if it eases your worry about liabilities. It's not really that hard. (really) Have your rider only go as as far as the minimum fare requires and make a fair face to face handshake deal and stash the extra cash in your pocket that will ultimately go back to your community. Companies like Uber literally drive people apart taking the emotional human aspect out of transactions and eventually taking commerce out of town and into somebody else's pocket. Uber Drivers their is a very partial window open to you if you only care to take a look.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

"I can't seem to understand why you think that paying Uber 2ok a year in fees isn't somehow a big deal"

Dominic R, I have mentioned multiple times, I don't drive for Uber. I detest Kalanick and what he stands for.

As for the fees, 20K a year of what? That is just a number. The vast majority of Uber drivers out there are not driving that much to generate that much in commissions a year. No way, not even close. Most drivers aren't going to driver for more than six months if they are lucky. The 20% commission has nothing to do with the short term for driving. Currently, without Kalinck and Krew, there is no possibility for people do go out there and do what they are doing. None. Love him or hate him, that is a fact.

There is a steep price to pay for being able to work so casually.



Dominic R said:


> The bottom line is if you are driving for Uber you are overpaying period. So why not just rebel against a system you consciously already know is toxic?


Yes you are over paying. 20% is just a number. Forget the 20K a year. Most drivers aren't going to last long enough to even generate 20K in fares let alone commission. I don't know if this was ever accurate, but I once read the average Uber driver only drives six or seven hours a week. How is it driver's overpay Uber? Well: They virtually hand them the keys to their expensive cars without any real understanding of the associated costs or risks. Driver's submit themselves to a mercurial playing field where rates/mile can change in with a moment's notice, Uber gets their 20% of $1/mile or $5/mile. Drivers subject themselves to the tyranny of the peeer to peer evaluation system as it currently is designed - they enable themselves to be manipulated.
- On and on. The 20% in and of itself, it is just another symptom. What is there to rebel against? That is how Uber drivers got their gig in the first place. The model is not sustainable as designed, in my opinion. Uber has no meaningful limits. They do not play on a level playing field relative to their competitors with respect to other forms of livery work.

Why not rebel against the system? Sounds good. I do not believe a person can rebel against the system while working in so called partnership with Uber. I do not believe that is at all possible, certainly not with Kalanick at the helm. No way. It is vital to educated oneself with respect to what he and other venture capitalists are encouraging. The subject should be part of daily discussions in terms of where is the economy going for working class people everywhere. What are the consequences of the gig economy?

Aside from not being an Uber driver, I don't worry about the 20% or 20K in that it may serve as a distraction. Uber does make a hell of a lot of shit happen. They are a formidable. They move very quickly, they are ubiquitous, found on every other phone, they create a lot of business that otherwise wouldn't be there. I say that putting my personal prejudices aside for a moment. 20% of a reasonable rate schedule or 20% of $0.90/mile?

Uber's status as a tech company contracting out to independent drivers, their ability to transfer all burden relating to fleet ownership onto the shoulders of drivers are two examples of more fundamental issues that when taken care of would affect what the commission stood for.

Rebelling against Kalanick is key. I do not believe it can be done well from within while driving for Uber. The only way you rebel is by walking away and taking the fight on some other way. To keep driving for a man so focused on disruption doesn't get much good done. There is no "I'll work for you some of the time", "I'll pay your 20% - some of the time." Uber's system isn't going to be much threatened by that for a bunch of reasons.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

20% is just a number. Forget the 20K a year. Most drivers aren't going to last long enough to even generate 20K in fares let alone commission. I don't know if this was ever accurate, but I once read the


Huberis said:


> "I can't seem to understand why you think that paying Uber 2ok a year in fees isn't somehow a big deal"
> 
> Dominic R, I have mentioned multiple times, I don't drive for Uber. I detest Kalanick and what he stands for.
> 
> ...


Thank you! Unfortunately, 20% is 20% too much regardless of how much or how little someone drives. It is the deceitful intentional preying of broke, ignorant, desperate & depressed indivuals who truly don't undestand the nature of business as you said. Uber is very aware of this. Let's be quite honest. I urge you to go to a private golf course. Go


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> 20% is just a number. Forget the 20K a year. Most drivers aren't going to last long enough to even generate 20K in fares let alone commission. I don't know if this was ever accurate, but I once read the
> 
> Thank you! Unfortunately, 20% is 20% too much regardless of how much or how little someone drives. It is the deceitful intentional preying of broke, ignorant, desperate & depressed indivuals who truly don't undestand the nature of business as you said. Uber is very aware of this. Let's be quite honest. I urge you to go to a private golf course. Go


 Go to clubhouse and try to ask a group of golfers if Uber is a good thing for a driver trying to make it.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Go to clubhouse and try to ask a group of golfers if Uber is a good thing for a driver trying to make it.


 That 20% unnecessary commission is equated to millions of dollars that is leaving your local economy and going elsewhere. Are you saying you would rather have that money go to Uber so they can keep screwing their drivers? Wouldn't you like drivers to have a fair break on commissions so they can offset some of the loses as you mentioned? Those commissions regardless of how much you drive were intentionally put in place to extract money out you and put you in financial hardship to intentionally give someone else the glorious life. Why would you want to actively participate?


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Why would I want to actively participate???? I don't drive for Uber for one.


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## Jedi Driver (Aug 23, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> The only reason someone should ever drive for Uber is if they had a legitimate immediate emergency like feeding their family. Why are drivers participating in a system they know is intentionally screwing them?


I don't have a family to feed, but I have bills that need to get paid yesterday--by trading any value that's left in my car (2005 Jetta) for $$$ every week, I'm successfully catching up on bills that I really didn't think I could pay until 2016. Every driver has her (his) unique reasons for driving--the bottom line is that the driver is either benefitting in some way--even if it's a small benefit--or the driver is not benefitting AT ALL. In the case of the former, we keep driving and make it work; in the case of the latter, it doesn't take the driver long to realize there is no benefit and she ( he) quits driving for Uber. Yes, the rates are unfair--the [email protected]&$s*#^ treatment of drivers is unfair--Uber's need to prevent drivers from getting cash tips (or cc tips through a better app with this feature) is unfair. But my bottom line right now is getting met, and that's why I drive. For the record, I will strike in October to support my fellow drivers--even though weekend fares are the reason I do this.


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## Jedi Driver (Aug 23, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> That 20% unnecessary commission is equated to millions of dollars that is leaving your local economy and going elsewhere. Are you saying you would rather have that money go to Uber so they can keep screwing their drivers? Wouldn't you like drivers to have a fair break on commissions so they can offset some of the loses as you mentioned? Those commissions regardless of how much you drive were intentionally put in place to extract money out you and put you in financial hardship to intentionally give someone else the glorious life. Why would you want to actively participate?


Before driving for Uber on the weekends--$0
Driving for Uber & allowing them the 20% commission--more than $0

If you really want to help drivers--avoid going onto a driving forum, antagonizing those who currently drive at the low rates or higher commissions (new drivers in my market now have to pay 25%), and judging the drivers (unless they have a LEGITIMATE reason to drive for Uber--like feeding one's family--your words) for using the Uber app. Help drivers by emailing your concerns to Uber or tipping your driver--but please stop bashing on the folks you claim to want to help.


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## Jedi Driver (Aug 23, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> 20% is just a number. Forget the 20K a year. Most drivers aren't going to last long enough to even generate 20K in fares let alone commission. I don't know if this was ever accurate, but I once read the
> 
> Thank you! Unfortunately, 20% is 20% too much regardless of how much or how little someone drives. It is the deceitful intentional preying of broke, ignorant, desperate & depressed indivuals who truly don't undestand the nature of business as you said. Uber is very aware of this. Let's be quite honest. I urge you to go to a private golf course. Go


I agree that Uber is unethical and deceitful, treating the drivers like s$&@. I take issue with you calling me and my fellow drivers ignorant, desperate, etc. and the MLK quote was a nice touch--so I'm ignorant and stupid, and I'm part of the problem? I don't know who you are or where you come from, but the population you claim to care about (the guy with the starving family who has to drive for Uber, the people paying more for a s$&@ burger at McDonald's in Compton) is the same population you seem to be disparaging. I realize I might be a little upset at some of the comments you've made on this thread because there is some truth to what you are saying, but you have an arrogant way of expressing your ideas. Why the f*^# would I want to ask some rich a$&@*<# on a private golf course if he thinks me driving for Uber is smart? What?


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## black dynamite (Jul 11, 2015)

UberReallySucks said:


> _On a serious note, it is against the law to take cash for rides because that basically makes you a *********. Not too long ago, there was a sting operation in LA that resulted in quite a few drivers getting arrested and their cars impounded. They were set up to take cash from lady cops ... then arrested for illegally transporting passengers without the required licenses and / or permits in that jurisdiction.
> But if you know you can get away with it or trust the rider ... then by all means ... the hell with Uber._


You also run the risk of getting into an accident and your pax taking you to the cleaners because your not covered by UBER or your insurance


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## Envisionit (Sep 25, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Hey, look at that - glados IS still here on the website...
> and has STILL refused to answer the question I asked 3 days ago!
> So, Glados:
> Are you an employee of Uber or any of it's affiliates or subsidiaries - or are you paid by any entity to monitor and post here on this website?
> ...


--------
You need to have someone from Uber chime in every now and then to ensure people are getting the right info. I have no problem with them doing so...(if that's the case)
But You can tell by the answers, it's someone who represents Uber, or is deciding to speak on their behalf ,anyways. Plus look at their avatar... a "big brother" video camera...lol


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## Jedi Driver (Aug 23, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you for your valuable insight. I can't seem to understand why you think that paying Uber 2ok a year in fees isn't somehow a big deal. Realistically, there is a great chance if you are driving for Uber you are somehow at the point of having a life support job. How on earth can these people afford to pay 2ok a year to a company that really doesn't warrant that type of commission for such a common routine platform? Just because you are poor, broke and hungry you wouldn't or shouldn't pay $20 for a Big Mac right? That is because it wouldn't provide you the proper nutrition and vitamins to keep you alive that would warrant $20 worth of food. Adwords is something similar to Uber. Why doesn't Adwords charge 20% of sales to all their customers to match prospective clients with their matching goods & services? It is because the type of people that purchase Adwords wouldn't have it. Unfortunately, Uber has done a great job of exploiting the top poorest percentage of people at the worst point of desperation. Something that has been done time and time again. They have preyed and eaten the meat off the bones of people with no hope. The promises of driving blinged out cars, working on your own time and without any responsibility on your part. You have just given over your power to the slave master and eventually when your worth nothing to them in their eyes they will throw you out to deal with your even worst situation in the system of courts so you can deal with another new set of slave masters. Have you ever noticed driving a cab wealthy people are the biggest misers? Have you noticed in wealthy areas of town things actually cost less ? Just go to McDonalds in Compton and observe the prices then go over to the stores in Orange County and you will see night and day the difference in prices. The bottom line is if you are driving for Uber you are overpaying period. So why not just rebel against a system you consciously already know is toxic? You can choose to do this within guidelines of the company or illegally. Either way you will be positively actively engaging and actually doing something about the positive reform you are seeking. It's not really about what you know but what you actually do about what you know to make the positive changes you are seeking. Rebellion can actually be a very good way to get your message across to your oppressors . Great changes in oppressed societies have happened because of rebellion. ( Think Rosa Parks for example) It something that needs to happen for good things to take place. So, I would say if you can hustle Uber do it! Go out and get your commercial insurance and proper licencing if it eases your worry about liabilities. It's not really that hard. (really) Have your rider only go as as far as the minimum fare requires and make a fair face to face handshake deal and stash the extra cash in your pocket that will ultimately go back to your community. Companies like Uber literally drive people apart taking the emotional human aspect out of transactions and eventually taking commerce out of town and into somebody else's pocket. Uber Drivers their is a very partial window open to you if you only care to take a look.


Seriously? Comparing driving for Uber to slaves and masters? Please espouse that nonsense elsewhere. Tacky.


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## Jedi Driver (Aug 23, 2015)

Okay. I think I'm done. My apologies thread readers for flooding a bit...


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you! I like what you said and I would say this is another reason why I think all Uber drivers should be properly insured and licensed. Wouldn't you like to do your own surge pricing without interference from Uber? If you have a problematic customer wouldn't it be nice to have the option to price them out and have another company deal with them. If someone wants to go 3 blocks away on Saturday night wouldn't you like the power to charge them what is fair? Face to face connections with clients will always bring you closer which will result in more money in your pocket. It is easy for Uber riders not to tip drivers because Uber makes it easy for us to leave and not show our faces with the embarrassment of not tipping. You are tipped with stars not money in their eyes. I don't understand why drivers are paying so much for something that can be done for free on Google Latitude. If Uber technology is so revolutionary why don't they use their own fleet like Fed Ex? It seems like driving for Uber is equivalent to taking out a payday loan with your car.


Then those 'face to face' claim to have no cash. Each market compensation is different. Each driver is different. Some finance their gas purchases (credit card and minimum payment), some don't finance their uber car.


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## Dominic R (Sep 22, 2015)

Jedi Driver said:


> I don't have a family to feed, but I have bills that need to get paid yesterday--by trading any value that's left in my car (2005 Jetta) for $$$ every week, I'm successfully catching up on bills that I really didn't think I could pay until 2016. Every driver has her (his) unique reasons for driving--the bottom line is that the driver is either benefitting in some way--even if it's a small benefit--or the driver is not benefitting AT ALL. In the case of the former, we keep driving and make it work; in the case of the latter, it doesn't take the driver long to realize there is no benefit and she ( he) quits driving for Uber. Yes, the rates are unfair--the [email protected]&$s*#^ treatment of drivers is unfair--Uber's need to prevent drivers from getting cash tips (or cc tips through a better app with this feature) is unfair. But my bottom line right now is getting met, and that's why I drive. For the record, I will strike in October to support my fellow drivers--even though weekend fares are the reason I do this.


I really appreciate you taking the time to participate and express your own personal feedback in a positive, healthy, honest discussion. First, I want to apologize if I have offended you or anyone with my own personal view as seen through my own eyes. Honestly, while my views may come off as harsh my intentions are to help empower and enlighten us all to overcome the the serious disadvantages most of us were born into by random chance. It really sickens me to see companies like Uber prey off the misfortunes of disadvantaged people that could really do something more useful for this world instead of causing more stress that ultimately limits them of their full potential. That being said can I ask you why do you accept mediocrity? You stated that your bottom line is getting met and that is why you drive. That is exactly what Uber wants you to feel to be comfortable with an illusion progressing though life on the path to bettering yourself. That is what they sell you. What keeps you going back to the Las Vegas casino time and time again knowing you most likely are going to lose your ass off. What keeps you going to nightclub every weekend knowing your going to blow at least a hundred bucks to end up going home to watch porn? It is the one time you actually won money at the casino. It is one time you actually got laid. If you are currently poor and broke I hope you wouldn't eat McDonalds everyday just because it is the cheapest way to eat and keeps you living to the next day. It would give you an illusion of being cheap but there would be serious long term consequences that would cost you numerous times more in healthcare costs, lifestyle, depression and so on to name a few. You already know that if you drive for Uber you are setting yourself up for future financial hardship down the line. Unfortunately, if you drive for Uber you are just doing favors for free for their riders by giving them such cheap fares. Maybe you won't see it today but if will eventually catchup with you. So, after digesting this in why would you want to drive for Uber even though you are fully aware they are not fair with you?


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Dominic R said:


> Thank you for your response. I just rode Uber today for the 1st time. It seems that many of my drivers today were not happy with pay structure. Why aren't more Uber drivers doing these types of practices to keep more money in their pockets?


Ummmm....because it most places, without a taxi license, it's illegal?


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