# I can't tell how old they are anymore.



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

I know we're not (technically) allowed to take unaccompanies minors. Living in a throttled market in the summer, I know if I don't take the trip I will be sitting another 20 minutes for the next ping. If a person seems adult and is 16+ I will usually take them.

A few days ago, ping at a school (have been getting alot of these lately, school staff and janitorial getting school ready for coming year.)

One of these pickups, there was a group of kids and adults in front of the middle school. Classes are not in session and these weren't middle schoolers. 

A young woman approaches my car, and it was quite the show. Very short shorts not covering everything, black lace bra top with lots of cleavage (implants or push up bra), pretty face, long dark hair, looks like a Kardashian. I figure its a teaching assistant helping get the school ready. Or maybe a HS senior taking summer classes to graduate on time. So she is sitting in the middle of the back row and leaned forward so she can talk to me. Very friendly. 

Turned out she was new to the area and just transferred to the school district, doesn't have any friends yet. She just saw "Top Gun Maverick" at the mall. Said she "slept through the whole thing, I was so tired. Its been so hot lately."

I asked her if she takes Uber alot, and she says "yeah, I don't have a car." 

I said, "you should get your parents to buy you one". 

She says, "they bought my brother one and they made him do all kinds of errands. I'm not sure I want a car."

So I said, "fair enough". Then I said, "if you get a job and buy the car yourself, your parents can't make you do things with it."

Then she says sheepishly, "I'm not old enough to drive yet."

So I said, "oh, I thought you were older." 

She says, "I get that alot".

So I say, "if you start working now, you can save up the money to buy the car and your parents can't tell you what to do."

Then she confesses, "Well... umm.... I'm not old enough to work yet, I'm only thirteen-and-a-half. Next year I'll be old enough to get a job at the Dairy Queen".

Thirteen _and a half._ (The "and a half" part was very important to her.)

Be careful out there boys.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

"Looks at least 14" is personally my minimum.

IDGAF because I'm not selling them mind altering chemicals and I don't have anything to lose.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

OldBay said:


> I know we're not (technically) allowed to take unaccompanies minors. Living in a throttled market in the summer, I know if I don't take the trip I will be sitting another 20 minutes for the next ping. If a person seems adult and is 16+ I will usually take them.
> 
> A few days ago, ping at a school (have been getting alot of these lately, school staff and janitorial getting school ready for coming year.)
> 
> ...


And that's why I have a dash cam.



By the way, that girl is Kylie Jenner and she is 24 in that picture.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

SpinalCabbage said:


> And that's why I have a dash cam.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, that girl is Kylie Jenner and she is 24 in that picture.


Girl looked like that but she was bigger on top. That is how she was dressed and how her hair/face were made up.


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## SassyDriver (9 mo ago)

Simply amazing how utterly STUPID drivers can be! You drivers that take unaccompanied minors are willing to risk everything you have for a $5 ride because you do want to wait. So you transport the unaccompanied minor! 

If you don't want to pick unaccompanied minors, then don't wait near schools, gyms, libraries, civic centers, board walks and game rooms! Geez, how hard is that?


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## SassyDriver (9 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> "Looks at least 14" is personally my minimum.
> 
> IDGAF because I'm not selling them mind altering chemicals and I don't have anything to lose.


Only your freedom if you get accused and cannot offer a believable and proven defense. Just don't pick them up at all! Better yet, report them and they will get removed from the platform.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

SassyDriver said:


> Simply amazing how utterly STUPID drivers can be! You drivers that take unaccompanied minors are willing to risk everything you have for a $5 ride because you do want to wait. So you transport the unaccompanied minor! Just 'fess up: you are predators getting a fantasy fix, or worse, being those sleazy Uber drivers we hear about all the time!
> 
> If you don't want to pick unaccompanied minors, then don't wait near schools, gyms, libraries, civic centers, board walks and game rooms! Geez, how hard is that?


Not waiting near school. I take every ping and go all over the place. That particular pickup there were alot of adults. If I drive ten minutes to a pickup and have to wait seven minutes for a pickup so I can get the $4 cancellation fee, I am making 10/net hour.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

OldBay said:


> I know we're not (technically) allowed to take unaccompanies minors. Living in a throttled market in the summer, I know if I don't take the trip I will be sitting another 20 minutes for the next ping. If a person seems adult and is 16+ I will usually take them.
> 
> A few days ago, ping at a school (have been getting alot of these lately, school staff and janitorial getting school ready for coming year.)
> 
> ...


Its the DAMN GROWTH HORMONES IN THE CHICKEN I TELL YA ! 🐔


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## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

All I know is that Uber has the burden to check out the pax, not me. All I got are my eyes and a potentially fake name to go by.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

You really think @OldBay a young woman who dresses like a Kardashian would be working at a school?

Think of all the guys 18 and up who’d sleep with a 13 year old teen who looks much older and gets arrested for statutory rape. Many teens look way older and dress very provocatively. That’s always been the case, but now there are just more of them.

Blame goes to the parents who let a 13 year old, especially one new to an area, dressed like that and taking an Uber. And she’s overly too friendly to an older driver. Thankfully you’re NOT a predator. My concern for someone like her is getting a driver who is.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

SassyDriver said:


> BULLSPIT! You are gonna post that descriptive narrative about where you picked up and who you picked up as well as your conversation and knowing the age you STILL continued the ride - you absolutely are a predator! And one who blames the victim! You should NOT be doing rideshare!


What the hell are you talking about?
If anyone here is a victim ITS US!!!!!
Uber doesnt gaf if they are 13 or freaking 90
And for some god forsaken reason
we cant ask them to prove they are actually even
old enough to be in the damn car to begin with
I think maybe you were wishing
he was picking you up 🤣


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Invisible said:


> You really think @OldBay a young woman who dresses like a Kardashian would be working at a school?


If it was all kids there, I might have shuffled, but there were alot of adults too. Didn't see anyone walking to car, came up from behind. I figured she was a HS senior in summer school. School is not in session.


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## Alltel77 (Mar 3, 2019)

That conversation though. A little on the TCAP chat log side.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

The victim here is the child. The parents should be beat within an inch of their life for letting their kid go out of the house like that.

These kids are dressing like this because their parents don't care.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

OldBay said:


> If it was all kids there, I might have shuffled, but there were alot of adults too. Didn't see anyone walking to car, came up from behind. I figured she was a HS senior in summer school. School is not in session.


At this time of year, the HS seniors would stil be minors, 17, unless they were held back a year. I did drive HS students, but they all said they were 18. So liability was off me, if they lied. I’m not chastising you, just saying the teachers and workers wouldn’t be allowed to dress like the students.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

SassyDriver said:


> Only your freedom if you get accused and cannot offer a believable and proven defense. Just don't pick them up at all! Better yet, report them and they will get removed from the platform.


I have better odds of being struck by lightning than appearing in a courtroom facing a silly and baseless allegation.



SassyDriver said:


> BULLSPIT! You are gonna post that descriptive narrative about where you picked up and who you picked up as well as your conversation and knowing the age you STILL continued the ride - you absolutely are a predator! And one who blames the victim! You should NOT be doing rideshare!


 You're literally hysterical.



rayejaye said:


> simply amazing how utterly STUPID some "adults" can be thinking anyone with something to lose is actually giving people rides for .60 a mile.
> 
> No one driving uber x has anything to lose.
> 
> ...


How did you write that much hysterical word salad without mentioning infant sacrifice, infant cannibalism, and bloodletting?!


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

SassyDriver said:


> BULLSPIT! You are gonna post that descriptive narrative about where you picked up and who you picked up as well as your conversation and knowing the age you STILL continued the ride - you absolutely are a predator! And one who blames the victim! You should NOT be doing rideshare!


He's already in trouble for picking up a underage rider. Why would he kick them out and now he's in more trouble for endangering a minor on top of whatever other laws he broke by doing it if he gets reported?


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## Alltel77 (Mar 3, 2019)

So I say, "if you start working now, you can save up the money to buy the car and *your parents can't tell you what to do*." 

This is just weird!


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Alltel77 said:


> So I say, "if you start working now, you can save up the money to buy the car and *your parents can't tell you what to do*."
> 
> This is just weird!


Pssst... It's peer pressure


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Alltel77 said:


> So I say, "if you start working now, you can save up the money to buy the car and *your parents can't tell you what to do*."
> 
> This is just weird!


In context it makes sense. Parents don't often have their kid's best interest in mind. A young adult who can show some independence has a better chance of dealing with bad parents.


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## Alltel77 (Mar 3, 2019)

OldBay said:


> In context it makes sense. Parents don't often have their kid's best interest in mind. A young adult who can show some independence has a better chance of dealing with bad parents.


I'm just messing with you but still def an awkward situation/convo.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Alltel77 said:


> I'm just messing with you but still def an awkward situation/convo.


It was just a slow-ish conversation that took place over ten minutes or so. I tried to provide a solution to a problem she expressed.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

SassyDriver said:


> BULLSPIT! You are gonna post that descriptive narrative about where you picked up and who you picked up as well as your conversation and knowing the age you STILL continued the ride - you absolutely are a predator! And one who blames the victim! You should NOT be doing rideshare!


Your reaching a little far with this.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Good thing I drive for a professional company with standards and legal team.

Driving a chaffeur vehicle now..

Did some uber pings late night friday and I got a kid I know for a FACT was under 18. (his father told me he was 9)

I might be part of the problem but I know I had the company cameras going.

Select Ping at 3:00 am when uberX was surging, picked him up and drove him to his mom's house. Dad was puking sick and mom was too tipsy to drive, being friday night and her not having the kid for the weekend.

Sure... no problem driving him... do this crap all the time...

The moment they came out of the house they were on camera, the moment the kiddo got into the car he was on camera.

The company (Mears) knows that we sometimes take minors, gives no shits.

Had another one earlier this week. 14 and 15 year old kids were off at disney alone while their parents went back to the hotel. The kids missed the last shuttle and their mom told them to grab a Mears taxi. Well they got a Mears Chaffeured vehicle. Close enough?  


Took them to their hotel and met their parents at the lobby and they paid. Talked to the mom about it and apparently I looked like a pro chaffeur to the kids and they thought that was close enough. Course I DO look like a pro chaffeur and the vehicle was the name she told them to look for.

Not the first time I've driven kids alone around disney.

But I know FOR A FACT that I can take unacompanied minors and i'd be OK legally. I don't strictly "need" to be booked through a phone in or app or anything and I know i'm still good legally.

That's the difference. There's nothing nebulous about me doing it and I don't have to care.


A third one this week I had I dropped my airport fare at a disney hotel and talked to the vallet.

He was looking for a Mears taxi (same company I drive for) to send this kid to the hotel. He was on the monorail when it stopped running for the night. He asked if I could call them in and speed it along.

"Ya know what.. give me the taxi voucher, I'll take him" 

I wrote up the voucher for a reasonable taxi rate and just turned in the ticket when I turned the car in.

"You know this is a taxi voucher right?"

"Yeah, billed it out for taxi rates"

"OK.. fine by me, just so you know write up your vouchers for taxi rates when you do it"


But I drive for a professional company. I have a county and a city license to do this, and I know there's nothing nebulous in a legal sense about it.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Hey he admitted he can't tell how young they are.
Me, I'd be thinking I know a place where you can make 300 an hr. But ya got a be 18. Even at that UGH !....



tohunt4me said:


> The " Victim " ?
> 
> Victim of an Uber Ride !


Say it ain't so.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I guess I'm confused why it's so hard to ask them for an ID. If I pull up and there's any chance at all of them being under 18, I'm asking for an ID. Especially at a high school! I've left people on the side of the road who swore up and down they were 18 but didn't have an ID. Document the cancellation as passenger being a minor and move on. Prevents any issues that have been mentioned in this thread. Plus some


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Invisible said:


> At this time of year, the HS seniors would stil be minors, 17, unless they were held back a year. I did drive HS students, but they all said they were 18. So liability was off me, if they lied. I’m not chastising you, just saying the teachers and workers wouldn’t be allowed to dress like the students.


I dont know about the school system here where I live. But when I graduated from high school, half of my graduating class was over 18. (I wasn't, and it made it harder to find a summer job.)


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> whatever other laws he broke


Like what specifically?



Daisey77 said:


> Prevents any issues that have been mentioned in this thread.


Like the false hysteria?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> Like what specifically?
> 
> Like the false hysteria?


If I knew I would have said. You can't fart around an underage person now without somebody charging you with something.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

I fixed the underage pickup problem at my local schools very easily.

I just told them that Ubers are not allowed to pickup anyone under 18 and to advise the students and parents accordingly.

What brought it about was a worker at.the school was two timing it running Uber. Thought he had a good source of trips as he was the closest available driver all the time. Either that he was attracted to children, so naturally had to put a stop to that.


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## woggy9 (6 mo ago)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> I fixed the underage pickup problem at my local schools very easily.
> 
> I just told them that Ubers are not allowed to pickup anyone under 18 and to advise the students and parents accordingly.
> 
> What brought it about was a worker at.the school was two timing it running Uber. Thought he had a good source of trips as he was the closest available driver all the time. Either that he was attracted to children, so naturally had to put a stop to that.


This is just so weird. I'm pretty sure that people that work at schools are not supposed to exist when they leave, guy probably thought he was a genius that found the ultimate lifehack loophole but seems sus and clearly inappropriate at minimum.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> I dont know about the school system here where I live. But when I graduated from high school, half of my graduating class was over 18. (I wasn't, and it made it harder to find a summer job.)


Mine wasn’t, except for those whose birthdays were Jan-June.

With so many false sexual allegations that some male drivers get, I’d think they’d want to stay clear of minors.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Invisible said:


> Mine wasn’t, except for those whose birthdays were Jan-June.
> 
> With so many false sexual allegations that some make drivers get, I’d think they’d want to stay clear of minors.


Oh yeah, there's so much potential for problems there that it's not funny.

First, the potential for any rider to make a false accusation. Second, the extra angst caused by having minors involved.

And third, just to add some icing on the cake, there's the impulsiveness of teenagers, who may have trouble recognizing the consequences of their actions.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Oh yeah, there's so much potential for problems there that it's not funny.
> 
> First, the potential for any rider to make a false accusation. Second, the extra angst caused by having minors involved.
> 
> And third, just to add some icing on the cake, there's the impulsiveness of teenagers, who may have trouble recognizing the consequences of their actions.


Great points, and yes on the impulsiveness!


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Invisible said:


> You really think @OldBay a young woman who dresses like a Kardashian would be working at a school?
> 
> Think of all the guys 18 and up who’d sleep with a 13 year old teen who looks much older and gets arrested for statutory rape. Many teens look way older and dress very provocatively. That’s always been the case, but now there are just more of them.
> 
> Blame goes to the parents who let a 13 year old, especially one new to an area, dressed like that and taking an Uber. And she’s overly too friendly to an older driver. Thankfully you’re NOT a predator. My concern for someone like her is getting a driver who is.


Very well said @Invisible. Sooner or late that young lady will get the wrong kind of driver who is willing to cross that line. Just not worth it in this day and age. Dash cam or no dash cam. Yes a dash cam may vindicate you in the end but it won't reimburse you for thousands of dollars in legal defense. Unless you have it expunged your background check will say "Charges Dismissed" but it will still show that you were arrested and charged for statutory rape. Enough to scare off the average employer. Everyone knows that "Dismissed" doesn't necessarily mean innocent. Just that there wasn't enough evidence for a conviction. Don't do it guys. And yes the parents are to blame.


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## Terrapin Bound (Mar 4, 2019)

OldBay said:


> Be careful out there boys.


I'll be in my bunk.


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## Volvonaut (May 1, 2016)

With cancel fees worthless now I just try to find out if it’s a teacher or staff right away (they’re some of my favorite pax) then don’t wait out the timer.


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## Terrapin Bound (Mar 4, 2019)

I may have unwittingly driven minors on a couple of occasions I can think of. Probably more though, factoring in the first year college girls when they're in season.

What's our actual liability if we allow an unaccompanied minor? Is this an insurance issue, like we believe too many pax to be? Or is it just a TOS thing, possible DA? 

Plus of course the possible false allegations, but we've got that covered with our dashcams, right?


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> Like what specifically?
> 
> Like the false hysteria?


Regardless of the legalities it's not false hysteria about unaccompanied minors and Uber.

This is straight from Rohit's mouth:










Is it likely? No. But it's not worth the potential hassle. 

Does Uber disregard it like with that moron who took the minor on a long trip in a blizzard, got stuck and paid for her hotel room? Yep. They milked that for P.R.

But if that driver had done something inappropriate with her I guaran****ingtee that Uber would've been out there "drivers aren't supposed to take unaccompanied minors" as they distance themselves from him.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> straight from Rohit's mouth:


Understood. S/he must say that because that's what the corporate attorneys advise and insist for liability reduction reasons. I worked in corporate environments for over 20 years.



New2This said:


> But if that driver had done something inappropriate with her I guaran****ingtee that Uber would've been out there "drivers aren't supposed to take unaccompanied minors" as they distance themselves from him.


Of course. Again, anything that, on paper or otherwise documented, makes them appear to be hard liners will help absolve them of liability expenses. It's *all* about the "paper" trail.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> Regardless of the legalities it's not false hysteria about unaccompanied minors


False hysteria, IMO, is when one looks at outcomes that have occurred about a dozen times, out of literally multiple millions of events, and then insists that it's a risk worth taking silly inconvenient steps to avoid it.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> False hysteria, IMO, is when one looks at outcomes that have occurred about a dozen times, out of literally multiple millions millions of events, and then insists that it's a risk worth taking silly inconvenient steps to avoid it.


For me personally it's not worth the risk. 

That message was sent to me by Rohit.

If, for whatever reason, I am involved in something legally that would be found in discovery. ESPECIALLY if Uber's looking for any way to throw me under the bus.

There will always be another non-problematic trip to replace that one.

If you want to take the chance you're welcome to. 

We're all independent contractors 😂😂😂


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## Ribak (Jun 30, 2017)

OldBay said:


> A young woman approaches my car, and it was quite the show. Very short shorts not covering everything, black lace bra top with lots of cleavage (implants or push up bra), pretty face, long dark hair


She will make friends soon and will have a line of boys willing to provide a ride. If she plays her cards right, stays fit, and maintains her friendly attitude....she will be pulling in six figures easily by the time she is 18.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> For me personally it's not worth the risk.


But you buy lottery tickets?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Ribak said:


> will have a line of boys willing to provide a ride.


I see what you've done here. 😉


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> But you buy lottery tickets?


Apples and transmissions. Completely unrelated. 

My buying a lottery ticket isn't violating any TOS and potentially putting me in a legal predicament. 

The "risk" of a lottery ticket is that money could be used for something else.


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## Saquan (Oct 15, 2018)

drive them and move on ctfu about minors, th ey are all riding uber.



inner city especially

lets make some money now


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## CaddyDave (6 mo ago)




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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I guess I just operate from the point of view that They can't possibly have a credit card or account if they are underage so I assume they are adults. Got the dash cam going and a barrier between me and them so they can't really make up much of a story that would stick. Could I be deactivated? I suppose but it's a long shot and could be considered a mercy killing. Bottom line, I have enough real stuff to worry about, can't worry too much about the long shots.


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## Ribak (Jun 30, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> I see what you've done here. 😉


I was referring to transporting her from point A to point B. There was no other meaning.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> False hysteria, IMO, is when one looks at outcomes that have occurred about a dozen times, out of literally multiple millions of events, and then insists that it's a risk worth taking silly inconvenient steps to avoid it.


Of course it's false hysteria. BUT the result of that false hysteria is potential trouble for the driver that's very real.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I guess I just operate from the point of view that They can't possibly have a credit card or account if they are underage so I assume they are adults.


Their parents put their own credit card information into the app.

Is that legitimate? Of course not. But the consequences for a parent for doing that are miniscule.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> Like the false hysteria?





Heisenburger said:


> Understood. S/he must say that because that's what the corporate attorneys advise and insist for liability reduction reasons. I worked in corporate environments for over 20 years


 bottom line is, it's against Uber's terms of service for us to take minors and just like with any other violation of our terms of service, it can result in deactivation. If the driver ends up in a lawsuit, for whatever reason because of this minor, that driver is left to fight the entire lawsuit on his own. These companies aren't going to help him financially with a legal team or lost wages. Not to mention the mental anguish one goes through when dealing with something like this. Why would they? They violated the terms of service. Had they not violated the terms of service they wouldn't be in this position to begin with. It's really not that difficult to ask for an ID. With all of the uncertainty that surrounds taking a minor, I'd much rather avoid all of that by simply asking for an ID. Only one person in the group has to be of 18. That's it. Some of the more horrific stories and crimes that have taken place on the Uber or Lyft platform, involved passengers who were minors. But hey if you got the money for the legal defense, have at it. You can have all the minors because I definitely won't be taking them


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I guess I just operate from the point of view that They can't possibly have a credit card or account if they are underage so I assume they are adults. Got the dash cam going and a barrier between me and them so they can't really make up much of a story that would stick. Could I be deactivated? I suppose but it's a long shot and could be considered a mercy killing. Bottom line, I have enough real stuff to worry about, can't worry too much about the long shots.


 I know you're smarter than this . you can absolutely have a credit card under the age of 18. Therefore you can have a rideshare account. Plus these apps don't require a credit card. You can use a debit card and you can definitely have a checking account under the age of 18. I had a credit card at 16 and a checking account at 14


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> It's really not that difficult to ask for an ID.


True. But obtaining one would be a problem because most minors don't have an ID with their age or DOB displayed.

Asking for ID is a form of challenge. It sets up a foundation of contention. It could potentially lead to no tip or lower rating, which ultimately can be a minor disadvantage.

Getting an adult to produce an ID could easily be contentious. Not sure that a 20 year old, who might *appear*, to me only, to be 15-17, is gonna be flattered by my error "in their favor" because they generally want to appear older at that life stage.

If Uber truly gave a sh!t, they'd implement required pre-trip selfies for all riders on every trip. Surely their vendor's facial recognition software can do a far better job of being suspicious about a person's appearance than a human. They already bought ID scanning software that they use for alcohol deliveries. This is strong evidence that Uber *truly* isn't concerned about minors.

In any case, I'll *never* ask anyone for identification. It's literally not my problem because nowhere in the US is it illegal to transport anyone because of their age. Nowhere. That it's an Uber policy that I ignore is irrelevant. If Uber someday decides that they don't want my labor of 40,000 miles across 5,000 trips per year, then I won't shed a tear. I'll be working another gig the following week.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> Only one person in the group has to be of 18.


Are you perchance implying that a 19 year old accompanying her 17 year old friend is somehow protective of allegations of misconduct (that would be just as troublesome to the accused than a single minor as passenger)?


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Very well said @Invisible. Sooner or late that young lady will get the wrong kind of driver who is willing to cross that line. Just not worth it in this day and age. Dash cam or no dash cam. Yes a dash cam may vindicate you in the end but it won't reimburse you for thousands of dollars in legal defense. Unless you have it expunged your background check will say "Charges Dismissed" but it will still show that you were arrested and charged for statutory rape. Enough to scare off the average employer. Everyone knows that "Dismissed" doesn't necessarily mean innocent. Just that there wasn't enough evidence for a conviction. Don't do it guys. And yes the parents are to blame.


Yep! Or if a driver views her overly friendliness as a sign she wants to be physical with him, and then she’s assaulted. Young teen women do not understand the dangers. Some may be a dick tease, which can get them in serious trouble.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> True. But obtaining one would be a problem because most minors don't have an ID with their age or DOB displayed.
> 
> Asking for ID is a form of challenge. It sets up a foundation of contention. It could potentially lead to no tip or lower rating, which ultimately can be a minor disadvantage.
> 
> ...


I won't shed a tear. I'll be working another gig the following week.

Doing what? 🤔


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Where I drive, California, Uber is regulated by the California Public Utilities Commission. The California Public Utilities Commission or CPUC specifically prohibits rideshare companies from picking up unaccompanied minors. Of course it still surges around every school in my area at the start and end of every school day.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

New2This said:


> Apples and transmissions. Completely unrelated.
> 
> My buying a lottery ticket isn't violating any TOS and potentially putting me in a legal predicament.
> 
> The "risk" of a lottery ticket is that money could be used for something else.


Where does he get this twisted logic from? Lottery tickets? Poor guy was accidentally dropped as a baby and hasn't been right ever since. 😩


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Where I drive, California, Uber is regulated by the California Public Utilities Commission. The California Public Utilities Commission or CPUC specifically prohibits rideshare companies from picking up unaccompanied minors. Of course it still surges around every school in my area at the start and end of every school day.


While Uber says we can’t pickup minors, they know many drivers will. There are ways to prevent that, but they won’t implement them and don’t care because all they see is $. Yet their hands are clean if something happens.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Invisible said:


> While Uber says we can’t pickup minors, they know many drivers will. There are ways to prevent that, but they won’t implement them and don’t care because all they see is $. Yet their hands are clean if something happens.


Is that the case? If underage pax lies about age, or parent lets someone underage use their account, how can the driver be held liable?

In the case of "no child seat" if there was an accident, driver could be cited by police.

In case of "unaccompanied minor", what is the series of events where this blows back on the driver?. If minor was injured and tried to sue, Uber would claim they violated their policy and signed up fraudulently.

I think the real issue with underage is claims of harassment or inappropirate behavior, but I believe a dash cam would protect against.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> For me personally it's not worth the risk.


But you get into motor vehicles on public roadways?



ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Doing what?


The next best thing for me at the time. Uber isn't, by far, the only opportunity around here.



SpinalCabbage said:


> The California Public Utilities Commission or CPUC specifically prohibits rideshare companies from picking up unaccompanied minors.


 Good point! Look what I found:



> Additional tracking or verification requirements would be unnecessarily intrusive and burdensome. For instance, *requiring drivers to check personal identification of riders would require riders to expose substantial amounts of personally identifying information to their drivers. This information could include a rider’s full name, home address, and date of birth. More problematically, such a requirement could potentially deny mobility to historically underserved portions of the population. These individuals may not have the most common documentation used to verify age.* For example, according to a 2006 study conducted by the Brennan Center for Justice, “[a]s many as 11 percent of United States citizens--more than 21 million individuals--do not have government-issued photo identification.”1 The individuals who lack photo identification also tend to be from historically underserved communities, including the elderly, minorities, and those with lower income.2 To require a rider age verification system would risk systematicallypreventing these individuals from accessing the affordable transportation option that TNCs offer. TNCs should not be singled out and required to further track and verify that unaccompanied minors are not being transported on a trip-by-trip basis. Rasier-CA is not aware of requirements for other transportation providers regulated by the Commission to track and verify this information. Since at least 1990, the Commission has been aware that limousine operators and other charter-party carriers sometimes transport unaccompanied minors,3 but the Commission has not required these carriers to track and verify that unaccompanied minors are not being transported. Imposing such a requirement on TNCs would unfairly single out TNCs from other regulated transportation companies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Is that the case? If underage pax lies about age, or parent lets someone underage use their account, how can the driver be held liable?
> 
> In the case of "no child seat" if there was an accident, driver could be cited by police.
> 
> ...


I think you misinterpreted my comment. I didn’t say if parent lies or pax lies about their age. I’m not a lawyer obviously, but I don’t think then the driver would be liable.

Let’s say a driver picks up a tween, an 11 year old girl who looks like a kid, not a Kardashian wannabe. And the driver never asks the age or the tween admits her age, so that’s where I’d think the driver would be liable.

Too many kids now threaten to call CPS on their parents if the parents don’t let them do as they want. Those same kids will have no issue saying my driver tried attacking me. Sure dash cam can prove you didn’t but not if kid says, driver came to house hours later.

What if some other driver runs a red light and slams into your car with minor? Parents will lie and say they never authorized their child to take Uber, and the kid stole their credit card. Driver up shit creek.

You do as you wish, but the only kids I ever took were those who didn’t look like kids and said they were 18. If they lie, that was on them. But I had some say 14, so I didn’t take them. For me, it wasn’t worth the possible risk if something happened.


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

Pax books rides through Uber, not the driver. Uber has or is suppose to have relevant info on pax, such as age. Uber has the legal burden to vet the pax BEFORE offering contract to drivers. The offer from Uber to drivers is understood by both parties to be in compliance with Uber's own policy. Regardless what Uber's policy states, drivers are not in the position nor have the authority to ask pax for ID. Uber have drilled into drivers' and paxs' heads that only the bare minimum of paxs' personal info is conveyed to drivers (usually a fake name). This has been established with millions of rides and in no way an objective person will read Uber's intentions on the driver/pax relationship as other wise. All parties involved, Uber, pax, & driver consent to this agreement and in fact is a strong selling point for pax to feel "safe" around drivers. This is further reinforced with trip histories being edited to omit pax's real address from the driver's app. The drivers are arguably left with no real personal info on pax which has been the normal mode of operation.

There is no law that prevents ride share drivers in providing services to minors. Uber's policy of no unaccompanied minors is negated by Uber's overall behavior with pax & drivers. Uber's policy, in spite of undeniable action on Uber's part in protecting personal pax info from drivers, instructing drivers to ask for ID that entails full legal name, DOB, address, weight, height, ID issue date, ID exp date on a minor undermines Uber's own policy of paxs' safety. 

If there is a mishap with a minor, both Uber and driver may be charged. Then the question is will the jury believe the burden is on Uber or on the driver or both? When they consider the past and current workings of Uber ride share, they will find it unreasonable for drivers to ask for ID on a 14, 15, 16, 17 year old who can pass for a 18, 19, 20, 21 year old. Again, it's not illegal to provide services to a minor and the jury will be well aware of this point of fact.

In a civil lawsuit, the plaintiff will almost always go after where the money is (Uber not the driver).


----------



## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

By your own admission it was a middle school







, to the OP , you conversation with the kid , sounds allittle creepy and in the end you found out she was indeed a middle schooler .


----------



## Soldiering (Jan 21, 2019)

SassyDriver said:


> Only your freedom if you get accused and cannot offer a believable and proven defense. Just don't pick them up at all! Better yet, report them and they will get removed from the platform.


No they wont. How long have you been an.operator with these two idiotic WOKE liberal companies? Everything they do is CYA BS. They do not enforce pax compliance. Are you a shill?


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

colamacy said:


> Pax books rides through Uber, not the driver. Uber has or is suppose to have relevant info on pax, such as age. Uber has the legal burden to vet the pax BEFORE offering contract to drivers. The offer from Uber to drivers is understood by both parties to be in compliance with Uber's own policy. Regardless what Uber's policy states, drivers are not in the position nor have the authority to ask pax for ID. Uber have drilled into drivers' and paxs' heads that only the bare minimum of paxs' personal info is conveyed to drivers (usually a fake name). This has been established with millions of rides and in no way an objective person will read Uber's intentions on the driver/pax relationship as other wise. All parties involved, Uber, pax, & driver consent to this agreement and in fact is a strong selling point for pax to feel "safe" around drivers. This is further reinforced with trip histories being edited to omit pax's real address from the driver's app. The drivers are arguably left with no real personal info on pax which has been the normal mode of operation.
> 
> There is no law that prevents ride share drivers in providing services to minors. Uber's policy of no unaccompanied minors is negated by Uber's overall behavior with pax & drivers. Uber's policy, in spite of undeniable action on Uber's part in protecting personal pax info from drivers, instructing drivers to ask for ID that entails full legal name, DOB, address, weight, height, ID issue date, ID exp date on a minor undermines Uber's own policy of paxs' safety.
> 
> ...


Because Uber has it in their policy that drivers cannot take minors, Uber’s lawyers would fight and win against your theory. it’s stated in policies that no UM, and even has tips of what driver should do if he/she suspects a UM.





__





Loading…






www.uber.com





And law firms, like this one below, would have no problem suing the driver.









What Are My Rights as an Uber Passenger?


Uber has reformed the transportation industry, but riding in a stranger’s car poses many risks. Here are your rights protecting you as an Uber passenger.




www.lowmanlawfirm.com





And I don’t have a pax account, so can’t confirm Uber even asks for birthday. They certainly don’t require a full name, as evident by some pax names that were only initials.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Invisible said:


> I think you misinterpreted my comment. I didn’t say if parent lies or pax lies about their age. I’m not a lawyer obviously, but I don’t think then the driver would be liable.
> 
> Let’s say a driver picks up a tween, an 11 year old girl who looks like a kid, not a Kardashian wannabe. And the driver never asks the age or the tween admits her age, so that’s where I’d think the driver would be liable.
> 
> ...


Your understanding of the legalities and possible defenses is quite naive.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

colamacy said:


> Again, it's not illegal to provide services to a minor and the jury will be well aware of this point of fact.
> 
> In a civil lawsuit, the plaintiff will almost always go after where the money is (Uber not the driver).


 QFT


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Invisible said:


> I think you misinterpreted my comment. I didn’t say if parent lies or pax lies about their age. I’m not a lawyer obviously, but I don’t think then the driver would be liable.
> 
> Let’s say a driver picks up a tween, an 11 year old girl who looks like a kid, not a Kardashian wannabe. And the driver never asks the age or the tween admits her age, so that’s where I’d think the driver would be liable.
> 
> ...


I think everyone is overthinking this issue a little too much. Obviously I'm not a lawyer but I think the reality is the driver will never be held responsible for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is that lawyers want to win big money for their clients. Driver's have no money. You best believe they will go after Uber's head on a silver platter for a guaranteed payout. 

Secondly Uber may have a no minor unaccompanied policy but they have nothing setup to enforce it. Passengers would need to be prescreened by Uber or driver's would be required to do i.d checks for all rides. (Neither is standard protocol) No visual check would hold up in court. You have 13 year olds looking like 30 year olds nowadays. You either check all identifications or you don't. 

Uber is legally responsible for passenger safety. Any claim on behalf of a minor will be settled quickly out of court and swept under the rug. Obviously if it can be proven a driver crossed the line he will be criminally charged otherwise just another fake lawsuit.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> I think the reality is the driver will never be held responsible for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is that lawyers want to win big money for their clients. Driver's have no money. You best believe they will go after Uber's head on a silver platter for a guaranteed payout.


Yes but in naming Uber in the lawsuit, guess who else is named in a lawsuit? The driver.

Granted it's a formality but it causes issues:

*Driver needs to hire their own attorney. That's not cheap. Uber's NOT going to pay for their attorney. 

*If driver ignores it they can find default judgment against them. Then unless they're destitute they're screwed. I have assets I'd like to keep. 


It's admittedly a long-shot but is any of this worth a $4 ride?


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> But you get into motor vehicles on public roadways?


Another meaningless comparison. You're grasping. 

I'm specifically talking about something that is plainly against Uber's TOS (taking unaccompanied minors) that has the risk of opening me up to potential liability civilly if not criminally. 

Buying lottery tickets and operating a motor vehicle (assuming I'm licensed, insured and not under the influence of alcohol or drugs) are very different things.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

I eagerly await someone posting references to the hundreds of criminal cases in the US where the sole issue was the age of a solo rider being a minor. No, actually make that just a dozen.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> You're grasping.


You're missing the point: relative probabilities.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> I eagerly await someone posting references to the hundreds of criminal cases in the US where the sole issue was the age of a solo rider being a minor. No, actually make that just a dozen.


I'm done.

You're an adult snd an independent contractor. Do as you see fit.

To me, the risk isn't worthwhile to knowingly take unaccompanied minors. 

If you want to risk everything for a $4 tide, you do you.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> You're missing the point: relative probabilities.


Yeah and probability is against winning the lottery. It happens to someone though.

Both PowerBall and unaccompanied minors it probably won't happen to me.


----------



## Volvonaut (May 1, 2016)

lodax said:


> Over the years I have almost 50 private clients from handing out cards, on app, off app, minors, drugs, prostitutes, i dont care whats going on back there long as they leave it the way they found it & tip. I let em drink, smoke, get it on, do lines and tell them the same when they ask iff they can do whatever..."I dont care what you do just leave it how you found it & cash is king"
> 
> next thing you know shes goin down on him or hes goin down on her and ive doubled the fair and have new regulars. Youre an independent contractor grow your business man this gig is good for lead generating. You have 1-30 humans held captive in your store for 20-40 minutes. Put on the show and let it snow MAN (elvis movie reference)
> 
> I'm not the police its not my job to be a detective, Im not asking for no i.d.


Dangerously based. Definitely ticked most of these in 6.5 years.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Emptynesst said:


> By your own admission it was a middle school
> View attachment 671546
> , to the OP , you conversation with the kid , sounds allittle creepy and in the end you found out she was indeed a middle schooler .


It was a summer activity group her parents put her in to meet people. She was not a middle schooler. I think 13/14 is freshman in HS.

As I said, the kids were pretty tall and not in middle school and there were a good number of adults there.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

.


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

New2This said:


> I'm done.
> 
> You're an adult snd an independent contractor. Do as you see fit.
> 
> ...


The risk doesn't exist. If it did we wouldn't be discussing about it on this forum for the past 4+ years.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

colamacy said:


> The risk doesn't exist. If it did we wouldn't be discussing about it on this forum for the past 4+ years.


You're welcome to keep doing it.

I'm not doing it and I'll strongly advise anyone else not to do it either.


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

New2This said:


> You're welcome to keep doing it.
> 
> I'm not doing it and I'll strongly advise anyone else not to do it either.


Stop living in fear and LIVE. It's unfounded, irrational behavior that led to a global COVID shut down that nearly crushed billions of people for no good reason.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

colamacy said:


> Stop living in fear and LIVE. It's unfounded, irrational behavior that led to a global COVID shut down that nearly crushed billions of people for no good reason.


I'm fine believe me. 

Risking a lot for a $4 ride for 16 year old Dakota isn't worth it FOR ME. If you feel differently then you do you.


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

New2This said:


> I'm fine believe me.
> 
> Risking a lot for a $4 ride for 16 year old Dakota isn't worth it FOR ME. If you feel differently then you do you.


Do you drive with a helmet on in case you run the "risk" of being T-boned? Without it you have about 22% of kicking the bucket and 80%+ of incurring head related injuries. Over 23,000 people died in '08.

Do you know how many Uber drivers were jailed and/or sued for transporting minors? 0.

Grow a pair and stop living in fear. Sheesh....


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Your understanding of the legalities and possible defenses is quite naive.


I agree to disagree. The driver will be the fall guy.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Invisible said:


> I agree to disagree. The driver will be the fall guy.


You don't understand how the criminal and civil courts work in the US?


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

colamacy said:


> Do you drive with a helmet on in case you run the "risk" of being T-boned? Without it you have about 22% of kicking the bucket and 80%+ of incurring head related injuries. Over 23,000 people died in '08.
> 
> Do you know how many Uber drivers were jailed and/or sued for transporting minors? 0.
> 
> Grow a pair and stop living in fear. Sheesh....


My balls are just fine. Kinda big so I've been told. 😎

Why do you GAF if I do or don't want to take little 16 year old Jasmine?

If I don't take the kids that leaves more for you.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

colamacy said:


> Do you know how many Uber drivers were jailed and/or sued for transporting minors? 0.


Yeah, I put up a challenge to cite cases and so far nobody has even tried to produce any.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

colamacy said:


> Do you know how many Uber drivers were jailed and/or sued for transporting minors? 0.





Heisenburger said:


> Yeah, I put up a challenge to cite cases and so far nobody has even tried to produce any.


I don't feel like taking the chance of being the guinea pig.

If an unaccompanied minor says you did something or said something inappropriate you're in a world of hurt.

Again, if you want to do it, fine. Be my guest.

I'll say this slowly so maybe you'll understand

*TO 

ME 

IT

ISN'T 

WORTH 

THE

POTENTIAL 

TROUBLE 

  *


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

New2This said:


> My balls are just fine. Kinda big so I've been told. 😎
> 
> Why do you GAF if I do or don't want to take little 16 year old Jasmine?
> 
> If I don't take the kids that leaves more for you.


Little Jasmine??? And someone told you your ping pongs were big?


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Here was one. Not sure if this was the case where the driver was named in the law suit or if that was another FL case.









The Family Of A 12-Year-Old Who Died By Suicide After Taking An Uber Alone Is Demanding Changes To Ride-Hail Policies


"Uber took my daughter past the point of no return."




www.buzzfeednews.com


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> I eagerly await someone posting references to the hundreds of criminal cases in the US where the sole issue was the age of a solo rider being a minor. No, actually make that just a dozen.


I think you are missing the point as usual. Even if it is against Uber's terms of service to drive an unaccompanied minor no one ever said that it is criminal or illegal to do so. You risk getting banned from the platform nothing more. The only point everyone is making is the risk you put yourself under if a false accusation ever arises. Yes that is criminal. Even if you are innocent the case will still be handled like a criminal case until a judge or jury find you not guilty. It is the driver's freedom of choice to decide if a $4 ride from school is worth it.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

New2This said:


> I'm done.
> 
> You're an adult snd an independent contractor. Do as you see fit.
> 
> ...


Hey $4 is a lot of money these days during inflationary times. 😁


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

New2This said:


> I don't feel like taking the chance of being the guinea pig.
> 
> If an unaccompanied minor says you did something or said something inappropriate you're in a world of hurt.
> 
> ...


Which number is bigger; 0 or 23,000? What are the odds of you being the very first Uber driver to be charged in transporting a minor? At this point, 0. What are the odds you'll end up dead or incur brain damaged in a side impact? A lot higher than 0. Why aren't you wearing a helmet then? Umm, just leave your wacky thinking alone? "Regular" people did that and ended up with global covid lockdown.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Even if it is against Uber's terms of service to drive an unaccompanied minor no one ever said that it is criminal or illegal to do so.


Actually, yes some did.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> If an unaccompanied minor says you did something or said something inappropriate you're in a world of hurt.


🤣 Just no.








What Is the Burden of Proof in a Criminal Case? - CDH Law PLLC


CDH Law PLLC explains what the "burden of proof" means in a criminal court case. Contact us today to learn more.




lawcdh.com


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Here was one. Not sure if this was the case where the driver was named in the law suit or if that was another FL case.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The article deals with a 4' 11" twelve year old and according to her parents couldn't possibly be mistaken for an adult. The conversation here and on previous posts the last 4+ years are the ones that do look old enough and its implication to Uber and drivers.


----------



## woggy9 (6 mo ago)

People that use Uber just want to be transported from point A to point B. and ideally afterwards neither party ever crosses paths with the other again. Just don't be a creep and most likely nobody is going to waste their time accusing anyone of anything. ALSO, maybe there are situations where an Uber is actually taking someone to where they would be safer and could be their only option. just like, idk, it's probably something you guys are a a little more worried about than necessary, even California doesn't have a law to card everyone cuz that would hurt underserved communities or whatever


----------



## Soldiering (Jan 21, 2019)

If you look 15 an you act immaturely Im not giving you a ride. I do not card pax but if you look underage I will not give you a ride. Thankfully in 25k rides its hapoened 3 times. In my experience its not worth worrying about. Alot of ants here have nothing better too do unfortunately 
Thats why there ants.....


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

woggy9 said:


> even California doesn't have a law to card everyone cuz that would hurt underserved communities


Yeah, it's utter hysteria for some of these folks. I see many of them as just looking for excuses to not work and cherry picking situations that "could potentially, maybe, possibly..." be annoying. Any excuse to slack off via age discrimination and just be lazy asses.


----------



## woggy9 (6 mo ago)

Soldiering said:


> If you look 15 an you act immaturely Im not giving you a ride. I do not card pax but if you look underage I will not give you a ride. Thankfully in 25k rides its hapoened 3 times. In my experience its not worth worrying about. Alot of ants here have nothing better too do unfortunately
> Thats why there ants.....


exactly. This is reasonable and I agree 100%


----------



## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

colamacy said:


> The article deals with a 4' 11" twelve year old and according to her parents couldn't possibly be mistaken for an adult. The conversation here and on previous posts the last 4+ years are the ones that do look old enough and its implication to Uber and drivers.


Now you flip the narrative , Op stated he picked up at a middle school , he claims he couldn’t tell age of pac who turned out to be 13 1/2 . Guess your theory of 0 is busted . You are fighting a little to hard to be right , and a little creepy . Don’t bother responding , I may puke hearing another response from you


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

Emptynesst said:


> Now you flip the narrative , Op stated he picked up at a middle school , he claims he couldn’t tell age of pac who turned out to be 13 1/2 . Guess your theory of 0 is busted . You are fighting a little to hard to be right , and a little creepy . Don’t bother responding , I may puke hearing another response from you


What, Mr. I joined this forum less than 2 weeks ago??? Ddddddddduurrrrrr, say again with your twisted logic?


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

This thread feels like a covid thread where you had covies with their kookoo arguments based on their wacky, my truths logic.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> 🤣 Just no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd rather not have to deal with it in the first place. 

How many posts here have there been where someone threatens all sorts of hell because driver won't do what they want.

This thread is a great example:









READ THIS IF YOU DON'T HAVE A DASHCAM YET


(sorry for the all-caps title, but yes I am yelling from the rooftops ;) ) Last night, had a passenger ask me to stop at Taco Bell on her way home. This was an automatic 'no' because: She was a sloppy person and would have dropped bag drippings all over the seat of my car It was surging $11...




www.uberpeople.net





I know @GGDaddy in real life so I know this happened to him. Imagine if she was 16.

Not implausible scenario: deiver picks up Becca who is 16. Becca wants a stop at drive-thru. Driver (without dashcam) says no. Becca is pissed.

Becca is an entitled **** and tells her parents the driver wagged his weenie at her. Parents, understandably outraged, call the cops, Uber and the local media.

Driver's in jail praying Becca recants. Even if she later revants, every time his name is Googled by prospective employers or dates he's the weenie wagger.

In this scenario if driver doesn't take Becca in the first place he's not dealing with these problems. 

Again I'll admit it's unlikely but false allegations do happen. Not fearmongering or Chicken Little. Being prudent.


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

New2This said:


> I'd rather not have to deal with it in the first place.
> 
> How many posts here have there been where someone threatens all sorts of hell because driver won't do what they want.
> 
> ...


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

colamacy said:


> What, Mr. I joined this forum less than 2 weeks ago??? Ddddddddduurrrrrr, say again with your twisted logic?


Three shining examples of the intelligence of the supposed "professional, veteran" driver for hire:


Emptynesst said:


> Maybe you have early on set of dementia , it appears you never understand anything anymore .





Emptynesst said:


> I usually respond to them with “ Go **** your mother “ oddly they never respond🤷‍♂️





Emptynesst said:


> You mad , bro ?


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> Becca is pissed.


Becca must be fat ass if pissed about missing her twice daily Taco Bell loading session. Fat ass Becca's parents don't care that much cuz they know that's all the weenie she's getting for free.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> Becca must be fat ass if pissed about missing her twice daily Taco Bell loading session. Fat ass Becca's parents don't care that much cuz they know that's all the weenie she's getting for free.


Then you can take Becca all you want.

I won't.


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

New2This said:


> Then you and dipshit can take Becca all you want.
> 
> I won't.
> 
> View attachment 671659


 Not even little Jasmine?


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

colamacy said:


> Not even little Jasmine?


All yours bro.


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

New2This said:


> All yours bro.



Why hand her off when she hasn't reported on you? Kind of dumb...


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> True. But obtaining one would be a problem because most minors don't have an ID with their age or DOB displayed


 Exactly. Therefore no ID = no ride🤷‍♀️


Heisenburger said:


> Asking for ID is a form of challenge. It sets up a foundation of contention. It could potentially lead to no tip or lower rating, which ultimately can be a minor disadvantage.
> 
> Getting an adult to produce an ID could easily be contentious. Not sure that a 20 year old, who might *appear*, to me only, to be 15-17, is gonna be flattered by my error "in their favor" because they generally want to appear older at that life stage.


 perhaps if you're socially challenged. It all depends on your approach and how you handle it. 


Heisenburger said:


> If Uber truly gave a sh!t, they'd implement required pre-trip selfies for all riders on every trip. Surely their vendor's facial recognition software can do a far better job of being suspicious about a person's appearance than a human. They already bought ID scanning software that they use for alcohol deliveries. This is strong evidence that Uber *truly* isn't concerned about minors.


 cuz scanning their face provides the birth date?


Heisenburger said:


> In any case, I'll *never* ask anyone for identification. It's literally not my problem because nowhere in the US is it illegal to transport anyone because of their age. Nowhere. That it's an Uber policy


 right, that can leave you in financial ruins after having to pay for legal representation.


Heisenburger said:


> I eagerly await someone posting references to the hundreds of criminal cases in the US where the sole issue was the age of a solo rider being a minor. No, actually make that just a dozen.


 kind of hard to do when everyone is Bound by arbitration where non-disclosure agreements are signed


Heisenburger said:


> Yeah, I put up a challenge to cite cases and so far nobody has even tried to produce any.


Tell us how to cite cases that have mandatory non-disclosure agreements . Perhaps you have some inside sources?


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

Daisey77 said:


> Exactly. Therefore no ID = no ride🤷‍♀️
> perhaps if you're socially challenged. It all depends on your approach and how you handle it.
> cuz scanning their face provides the birth date?
> right, that can leave you in financial ruins after having to pay for legal representation.
> ...


If you have a female family member that looks to be 20ish, don't get all riled up when her Uber drivers demand to see her ID because you know, Uber's policy. So many freaking women are going to hate on you.

BTW, big fat ZERO. That's the number of Uber drivers sued in court for transporting girls that could pass for an adult.


----------



## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

So the "perverted" logic of some drivers here is this: Don't ever transport minors and if you suspect them to be either cancel the trip or demand to see their ID. Just imagine how many women who are 18-22 are going to be asked for theirs if drivers comply with that crooked line of thinking. We're going to see a HUGE uptick on sexual stalking/crime.

Looks to me it's the pervs and their enablers pushing this idea of demanding to see paxs' ID. Hmmm...


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> Therefore no ID = no ride🤷‍♀️


👍



Daisey77 said:


> perhaps if you're socially challenged.


I am somewhat. Regardless, I'm not gonna be the first person to doubt them after no other driver has ever doubted them. Not worth the hassle and perception of troublemaking for its own sake. Also, a major problem I have is zero compensation when I cancel. I've most likely already cost myself at least a dollar just getting to the pick-up. I'm not gonna take the L and not get paid.



Daisey77 said:


> cuz scanning their face provides the birth date?


No, because facial recognition software can make guesses about age more accurately and sometimes with less bias than most humans. The Uber rider app could then say "well, sorry but you appear to be under 18, so prove otherwise by scanning your ID or else driver can't start the trip in the app." Same as how alcohol deliveries work - the barcode on the back of state issued ID is uploaded in seconds much like a scanned QR code pulls up a link.



Daisey77 said:


> financial ruins after having to pay for legal representation.


I'm capable of representing and effectively defending myself.

Also, there's countersuing for my own legal defense fees* if I go that route*. I could be made whole over time.



Daisey77 said:


> non-disclosure agreements are signed


Citation please.



> *Requests from underage riders*
> 
> To have an Uber account and be able to request rides, a rider has to be at least 18 years of age. Anyone under that age must be accompanied by an adult 18 years of age or older on all rides. As a driver, you *should* decline the ride request if you believe the person requesting the ride is under 18. When picking up riders, if you *feel* they are underage, you *may* request they provide a valid drivers license or ID card for confirmation. Please do not start the trip, or allow a rider to ride if they are underage.
> 
> ...


Seems a little loosey goosey and wishy-washy to me. Soft language.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Actually, yes some did.


I'm too lazy to go back and check but if they did then I stand corrected. 👍


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> You don't understand how the criminal and civil courts work in the US?


Nope but I’m not a lawyer or criminal.


----------



## Volvonaut (May 1, 2016)

colamacy said:


> Stop living in fear and LIVE. It's unfounded, irrational behavior that led to a global COVID shut down that nearly crushed billions of people for no good reason.


I like, normally agree with the sentiment. Strongly. Not too fond of masks. Kept silent long enough and now the narrative is crumbling and did so much damage, especially in our line of work, BUT. Kind of an amazing stretch with that one since kids don’t even make good passengers on any level. The only way you’d carve out a tip on that low paying ride is if the remarkably irresponsible laissez-faire parent was looped in and awfully relieved some sucker finally didn’t cancel. Even if you ignore the mountain of other reasons. Sure it’s like Uber covering their ass, but it really is a terrible idea.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

colamacy said:


> What, Mr. I joined this forum less than 2 weeks ago??? Ddddddddduurrrrrr, say again with your twisted logic?


Tbat member could be a former banned member who reincarnated himself again on the forum. It seems half of the old forum members got banned.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Yeah, it's utter hysteria for some of these folks. I see many of them as just looking for excuses to not work and cherry picking situations that "could potentially, maybe, possibly..." be annoying. Any excuse to slack off via age discrimination and just be lazy asses.


Just when I finally thought this Heisenberger guy ain't that bad once you get to know him you spit in our faces and tell us that it is rain. Well rain don't smell like bad breath.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

New2This said:


> Regardless of the legalities it's not false hysteria about unaccompanied minors and Uber.
> 
> This is straight from Rohit's mouth:
> 
> ...


That person was 19. The hotel wouldn't rent to under 21.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> 🤣 Just no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, because no one's reputation has been ruined because of a false allegation. 

















No proof, just an allegation. 

This guy will forever be linked to a kidnapping thanks to the internet. 
You're kidding yourself if you think this hasn't and won't negatively impact him for years to come, probably the rest of his life.

Some 15 year old girl decides to spend the night with her boyfriend, gets caught and says the uber driver kidnapped her. Mommy and daddy call the cops and that Uber driver's name is all over the news & the web as a kiddie diddler.
Yeah, later there will be news stories that he's innocent, not nearly as many though. 

Burden of proof is for court, your life can be severely impacted with 0 proof. Just some kid trying to get out of trouble.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Boca Ratman said:


> That person was 19. The hotel wouldn't rent to under 21.


I'm not doubting you but where did you see that?

Most stories refer to her as a young teen.






Uber driver stranded on I-95 buys teen passenger hotel room, offered new job


Uber driver DaVante Williams was stranded with a teenage passenger for hours on the snowy I-95 and is being praised for going “above and beyond” to get her home safe.




www.fox5ny.com













Uber driver who cared for stranded teen on I-95 during blizzard gets job offer


The good deed of the Uber driver is being recognized and rewarded as the story went viral on social media.




www.pennlive.com


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

New2This said:


> I'm not doubting you but where did you see that?
> 
> Most stories refer to her as a young teen.
> 
> ...


I believe it was an article with an interview of the driver. I don't have a source. He could have been lying, of course. It stuck with me because i thought the same as most of us, that Uber was rewarded this guy despite him breaking their policy.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Boca Ratman said:


> I believe it was an article with an interview of the driver. I don't have a source. He could have been lying, of course. It stuck with me because i thought the same as most of us, that Uber was rewarded this guy despite him breaking their policy.


IIRC on Twitter he was getting crucified for taking an unaccompanied minor and trying to justify it.

I don't have the link either.

I'll do some more research if I'm feeling ambitious.


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

OldBay said:


> I know we're not (technically) allowed to take unaccompanies minors. Living in a throttled market in the summer, I know if I don't take the trip I will be sitting another 20 minutes for the next ping. If a person seems adult and is 16+ I will usually take them.
> 
> A few days ago, ping at a school (have been getting alot of these lately, school staff and janitorial getting school ready for coming year.)
> 
> ...


at what point do you just STFU and drive the car,
what her parents do and don't do is none of your business,
her personal life is noon of your business.

Please don't drive for hopskipdrive


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> This guy will forever be linked to a kidnapping thanks to the internet.


 I've known John Geary for decades! Well I'll be damned, just when I thought I could trust John Geary! Now he goes and allegedly kidnaps that girl! No Christmas card for you this year John! And next year too *just because you're always and forever sus!

🙄*


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> I've known John Geary for decades! Well I'll be damned, just when I thought I could trust John Geary! Now he goes and allegedly kidnaps that girl! No Christmas card for you this year John! And next year too *just because you're always and forever sus!
> 
> 🙄*


What do you think a prospective employer would think after Googling him and finding that?


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Just when I finally thought this Heisenberger guy ain't that bad once you get to know him you spit in our faces and tell us that it is rain. Well rain don't smell like bad breath.


No worries my freshly towel dried friend. Just peruse my extensive library of thought provoking insights and inspirational quotes amidst my library of 1400+ (and growing!) comments. Wash away stinkin thinkin with my freshly harvested nuggets of wisdom! May your path to cognitive prosperity begin here and now! 👍😎🤯


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> What do you think a prospective employer would think after Googling him and finding that?


In 2022, they're hiring anyone who's not presently incarcerated and stays still long enough to be handed an access card and uniform. You don't even need to apply these days. They'll come find your ass at the bowling alley and get you onboarded before your two hour lane rental is up!


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> IIRC on Twitter he was getting crucified for taking an unaccompanied minor and trying to justify it.


That's Twitter fer ya. It's one reason why I don't use it.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> That's Twitter fer ya. It's one reason why I don't use it.


THAT we agree on.

I get in enough trouble here. On Twitter I'd be perpetually banned.

This is the Twitter thread:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478584108691255298
Some of the highlights:






































@Boca Ratman a few say she was 15 FWIW.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> This is the Twitter thread:


That Linda chick was insane with this adversarial approach:



> keep my doors always locked until they produce ID, no ID, she won't let them in


She didn't want all them 14 year old boys accusing her old hag ass of dry humping them just before drop off.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> In 2022, they're hiring anyone who's not presently incarcerated and stays still long enough to be handed an access card and uniform. You don't even need to apply these days. They'll come find your ass at the bowling alley and get you onboarded before your two hour lane rental is up!


You’re thinking low end jobs that just need a body with a pulse. Think of white collar jobs. This guys resume would be shredded once a Google search is done, even if he’s innocent.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> In 2022, they're hiring anyone who's not presently incarcerated and stays still long enough to be handed an access card and uniform. You don't even need to apply these days. They'll come find your ass at the bowling alley and get you onboarded before your two hour lane rental is up!





Heisenburger said:


> I've known John Geary for decades! Well I'll be damned, just when I thought I could trust John Geary! Now he goes and allegedly kidnaps that girl! No Christmas card for you this year John! And next year too *just because you're always and forever sus!
> 
> 🙄*


What are you implying here?


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

colamacy said:


> If you have a female family member that looks to be 20ish, don't get all riled up when her Uber drivers demand to see her ID because you know, Uber's policy. So many freaking women are going to hate on you.
> 
> BTW, big fat ZERO. That's the number of Uber drivers sued in court for transporting girls that could pass for an adult.


I won't and they don't . . . well maybe when they get left stranded at their pickup spot but Luckily I don't start the trip so they can't unfairly bad rate me. _gasp_ Oh no women hate me? whatever will I do? It sounds like to me that you take the minors so that they don't hate you? Why is that? why would you want minors to like you? Inquiring minds are wanting to know. 


Oh and as to the zero number of drivers who have been sued in court, if you are in fact able to even prove that, that would be because . . . hello, passengers are tied arbitration agreements just like the drivers. So it would technically be an arbitration case not a lawsuit😎😁


colamacy said:


> So the "perverted" logic of sothem? rivers here is this: Don't ever transport minors and if you suspect them to be either cancel the trip or demand to see their ID.


 yep because that's the company policy🤷‍♀️




Heisenburger said:


> I'm not gonna be the first person to doubt them after no other driver has ever doubted them.


😂🤣 how do you know you'd be the first person and how do you know no other driver has doubted them? Come on now🙄 you're not going to ask for their ID but yet you're going to ask them if any other driver has doubted them?? 😂🤣👍


Heisenburger said:


> I have is zero compensation when I cancel.


Weird. So you're in the only Market that doesn't pay cancellation fees?🤔


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

New2This said:


> THAT we agree on.
> 
> I get in enough trouble here. On Twitter I'd be perpetually banned.
> 
> ...


Could be.

I was one of the 1st people to tweet @ uber over the hypocrisy. In fact one of your screenshots is a reply to me. 😆 🤣. 

After reading through that twitter thread, I'm starting to question my memory now. It's very possible I'm miss-remembering, there's a tweet that says something about not being able to get a room at 18 or 19 and now I'm not sure.


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

OldBay said:


> I know we're not (technically) allowed to take unaccompanies minors. Living in a throttled market in the summer, I know if I don't take the trip I will be sitting another 20 minutes for the next ping. If a person seems adult and is 16+ I will usually take them.
> 
> A few days ago, ping at a school (have been getting alot of these lately, school staff and janitorial getting school ready for coming year.)
> 
> ...


Transporting minors is not a good thing, I had one bad experience in my taxi days, going to go ahead and tell you the story, back in the early 2000s one of the taxi companies I work for had an account with the local school district to pick up kids and take them to and from school, did an evening pick up as I normally did every evening, it was a young boy maybe around 9 or 10 years old, I had a top 40 radio station playing, at the time there was a prominent comedian going to appear at one of the local casinos in the area, he had a radio commercial going which was a sample of his routine, a short part of that samples comedian's routine was a joke about a dil-do, a day later I get a call to come to the taxi office, the parents were concerned because they're young son had asked what is a dil-do after dropping him off, after thinking about it for a few minutes I remembered the radio commercial for the comedian, I had to give them the radio station number, so they could monitor the broadcast, lucky for me they did repeat the commercial, and I was off the hook, but what if they had called the police what if they had got authorities involved, after that I no longer picked up the account from the schools, transporting minors is not a good thing many things can go wrong.

I'm still trying to figure out why you needed to engage this young lady in all these questions answers and advice, and remember if you were to get accused of something, she is no longer a young lady, everybody at that point will call her a child and call you a pervert,

The next time you think or suspect you have a minor sitting in your backseat, before you open your mouth and let words come out of it ask yourself the following question, would I say or ask these questions if the Minor's parents were present, just S.T.F.U. and drive the car, better yet cancel the trip if possible and move on.

I have 25 years of taxi, limo, and medical transport experience, many of you here seems like you have no idea how to be professional, in my taxi days I had many personals, two of them were strippers that I transported from Riverside to Hacienda Heights California two or three times a week, since I had so many personals obviously there was days I guess couldn't get to them in time to pick them up, so I would give them to one of the drivers that I had in my network of contacts, one of them I had to cut loose why because he thought it was professional to ask my stripper client for free tickets to her show to ask her if she enjoyed stripping if she enjoyed being nude, even asked if he could get a private show, confronting him about the situation, he told me she was a stripper she should be willing to be paid by anybody to strip and she should be used to the questions, an example of a clown Taxi driver, which I immediately removed from my list of contacts,

A few years later I picked up the same young lady and her husband during a normal taxi ride, I did not know she was going to be the client, found out that she no longer stripped, she was happily married had a baby in the backseat and another one on the way, both her and her husband told me the only reason why she was stripping was so they could save money to buy a house drop them off at their nice new home in corona, my point is she was not some Street w****, she was not some loose woman, you treat all women with respect, their personal lives is none of your business, even if it's a stripper in your backseat you have no right to question her about what she's doing or ask for free tickets,

I'm currently 4.99 driver, gee I wonder why..lol


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> how do you know you'd be the first person and how do you know no other driver has doubted them? Come on now🙄 you're not going to ask for their ID but yet you're going to ask them if any other driver has doubted them??


The rider would exclaim it on their own in response to my insistence and as a "defense." It's not hard to imagine hearing "well nobody else has asked me and I've already been on 25 trips alone this year!"



Daisey77 said:


> Weird. So you're in the only Market that doesn't pay cancellation fees?


 Uber's very own help article addressing unaccompanied minors for drivers doesn't even suggest that they will pay me, much less what amount, to cancel for that reason. Are you saying that I should assume that Uber will pay me? And what amount should I assume? $4.83, just like no shows?


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

My position on this matter isn't one of ignorance and isn't fabricated from whole cloth. My position is evidence based with a solid understanding of both human nature and statistical probability of adverse outcomes.

From an in-depth industry article:


> This last portion of their rule about what drivers should do in the case of minors is a new addition to their rule on minors. In the past they didn’t say anything about what drivers should do.
> 
> What they are currently saying, *sounds more like a request than an order.* Drivers *should* check for ID if they “*feel*” a passenger is underage. *That’s not exactly an iron clad rule.*
> 
> ...


From an in-depth industry article:


> *Key Differences*
> 
> Uber says a driver should refuse a passenger if they “*feel*” they are underage and Lyft says drivers *should* do the same if they “*believe*” they are underage. Both “*feel*” and “*believe*” are very *subjective*. Neither company orders its drivers to check IDs of all passengers! So they *cannot hold the driver ultimately responsible* for transporting minors.
> 
> ...


From an in-depth industry article:


> The problem for drivers, however, is that as one driver said, “It’s hard to tell some of the college kids from high school kids.” It’s not always easy to tell who is over 18 and who is under. Especially the kids who are very close to being 18. And *drivers don’t have the backing from Uber and Lyft to card every passenger. Lyft and Uber don’t tell passengers that they have asked drivers to check their ID – nor would they ever. * *So, if our conscientious driver decides to card every person who looks like they might be anywhere near 18 or under, his driver rating will plummet as annoyed 18- and 19-year-olds will surely consistently give him 1 star!* Even if the rider wasn’t the real account holder, but just a passenger whose parents’ called a ride, they can still leave a bad rating.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From an in-depth industry article:


> *The Cancellation Problem*
> 
> Up until recently, another big problem for rideshare drivers when it came to minors was how they should handle cancellations. Should they cancel when a minor gets in the car? Here’s the amazing thing. While Uber asked drivers to cancel trips if they discovered the passenger was an unaccompanied minor, they used to not list “unaccompanied minor” as the reason for cancellation. So, if you did the right thing and played by their rules and cancelled any pickups from unaccompanied minors, you could be penalized for doing so. They have since added unaccompanied minors as a reason for cancellation. *However, they have never told drivers whether or not they still penalize them for these cancellations. Today they say cancellations don’t count against drivers. But evidence has emerged while perhaps they’re no longer actively deactivating drivers for having too many deactivations, they may be doing so passively.* We now know that Uber takes other factors into consideration other than just the driver’s distance from the rider when deciding which driver to send to a rider. They now take each driver’s distance from the rider, their rating, *their cancellation* and acceptance rates along with several other factors into consideration when deciding which nearby driver to send to a passenger. So while they say they no longer deactivate drivers for high cancellation rates, they deactivate them in substance by sending them fewer trip requests. *Drivers know that if they cancel a minor and choose “Unaccompanied minor” as the reason in the app, they could still be penalized with fewer trips for the cancellation*.


----------



## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Heisenburger said:


> My position on this matter isn't one of ignorance and isn't fabricated from whole cloth. My position is evidence based with a solid understanding of both human nature and statistical probability of adverse outcomes.
> 
> From an in-depth industry article:
> 
> ...


"*The Cancellation Problem*"

and when they send a trip, it's many miles away.


----------



## Wil Mette (Jan 15, 2015)

Invisible said:


> While Uber says we can’t pickup minors


Technically they never said we can’t pickup minors. 
They never threaten drivers, but they discourage it as much as possible without actually banning it (except in CA, where it is illegal).
They say the PAX can not request rides for unaccompanied minors to push liability onto the requestor.
California has made it illegal and can remove your ability to drive for rideshare, taxis, & limos. Ouch!

Has there been even a single minor pax case brought against a driver outside of California?
There are hundreds of adult pax suing Uber.








Uber faces 550-passenger lawsuit over alleged rape and assault in US


Firm accused of failing to protect women from kidnap, false imprisonment and sexual battery




www.theguardian.com




Is transporting minors safer??? It looks like it.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> The rider would exclaim it on their own in response to my insistence and as a "defense." It's not hard to imagine hearing "well nobody else has asked me and I've already been on 25 trips alone this year!"
> 
> Uber's very own help article addressing unaccompanied minors for drivers doesn't even suggest that they will pay me, much less what amount, to cancel for that reason. Are you saying that I should assume that Uber will pay me? And what amount should I assume? $4.83, just like no shows?


Wait out timer. You get paid.

The amount is market specific but same as a no show.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> Wait out timer. You get paid.


Even when selecting the reason "unaccompanied minors"?

That's just weird to have to wait it out when you already know. It's nothing like a no show where the waiting itself is a necessary condition for compensation.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Wil Mette said:


> Technically they never said we can’t pickup minors.
> They never threaten drivers, but they discourage it as much as possible without actually banning it (except in CA, where it is illegal).
> They say the PAX can not request rides for unaccompanied minors to push liability onto the requestor.
> California has made it illegal and can remove your ability to drive for rideshare, taxis, & limos. Ouch!
> ...


Yes, technically they did if you can read. See link, which I posted before and it gives drivers steps of what to do if minor pax.

https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/basics/uber-community-guidelines/


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Wil Mette said:


> California has made it illegal and can remove your ability to drive for rideshare, taxis, & limos.


Do you have a source? All I see is the CPUC stuff which isn't really the same.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Invisible said:


> Yes, technically they did if you can read. See link, which I posted before and it gives drivers steps of what to do if minor pax.
> 
> https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/basics/uber-community-guidelines/





> Discriminating against someone based on traits such as age...


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Even when selecting the reason "unaccompanied minors"?


Yes.


Heisenburger said:


> That's just weird to have to wait it out when you already know. It's nothing like a no show where the waiting itself is a necessary condition for compensation.


You have to wait out the timer to get paid regardless of the reason. 

I suppose it's mainly to prevent fraudulent use cancels. If we could cancel after a few seconds and get paid a cancel fee, there'd be way more cancels than there are now.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> Yes.
> 
> You have to wait out the timer to get paid regardless of the reason.


Okay, thanks. Yeah, forget waiting idle for over 5 minutes for just $4.83. I'd rather have whatever trip revenue (80% of the time, that's between $6 and $12, even with UF/UP) plus the quest value since I virtually always finish those. Besides I don't need to lose yet more time and CPM driving to the *next* accepted offer.

My general rule is that I'm starting the trip within 5 minutes of arrival because volume is key. And yes I run ghost rides (ride empty) when I deem it low risk.


----------



## Donatello (6 mo ago)

You mean you don't card unwanted rides for cancel money?


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

@Heisenburger

So you combine two different community guidelines in your reply. Yet those aren’t related and aren’t under same subheading. Still in previous post you say I don’t understand legalities. Lol!


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> You mean you don't card unwanted rides for cancel money?


No. It's contrary to my strategy.



Invisible said:


> @Heisenburger
> 
> So you combine two different community guidelines in your reply.


What of it? It's an explanation why cancel fees are pure rubbish in the context of my strategy.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> The rider would exclaim it on their own in response to my insistence and as a "defense." It's not hard to imagine hearing "well nobody else has asked me and I've already been on 25 trips alone this year!"


 😂🤣 they will say that even if another driver has questioned them. Don't you know? Society has a problems with owning their own actions


Heisenburger said:


> Uber's very own help article addressing unaccompanied minors for drivers doesn't even suggest that they will pay me, much less what amount, to cancel for that reason. Are you saying that I should assume that Uber will pay me? And what amount should I assume? $4.83, just like no shows


If you wait out the timer you will get paid. I've never had an issue. Pro tip: if they are minor they're going to cancel before you wait out the 5 minutes they. They want it on their terms and they feel they're safer not getting reported by them canceling😉


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Same basic convo same month last year. So much contention with Uber trying to hide behind part of a "policy". But the bottom line is that it remains a technically legal activity in all US states. Ah well, I need to go get all the neighbor's kids home from school tomorrow afternoon. Can't wait for UberX Share to return so I can snag a car load all at once!


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> No. It's contrary to my strategy.
> 
> What of it? It's an explanation why cancel fees are pure rubbish in the context of my strategy.


I’m not going to do runaround with your odd tactics. You quoted me on the guidelines I posted, but then you added age discrimination with the quote on minors. Now you reference something different.

I don’t have time for this. Nor do I care, so any future replies will be ignored.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Invisible said:


> I don’t have time for this.


That's why we do flexible gigs!


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> Okay, thanks. Yeah, forget waiting idle for over 5 minutes for just $4.83. I'd rather have whatever trip revenue (80% of the time, that's between $6 and $12, even with UF/UP) plus the quest value since I virtually always finish those. Besides I don't need to lose yet more time and CPM driving to the *next* accepted offer.
> 
> My general rule is that I'm starting the trip within 5 minutes of arrival because volume is key. And yes I run ghost rides (ride empty) when I deem it low risk.


I agree with this. except for ghost rides

When I started, UP had alot of people talking about which rides to cancel (car seats, minors, etc), and I originally was more discriminating. Now with a seven minute cancel timer and $4 payout, cancelling is a big waste of money/time.

I try to keep things smooth and relaxed. If I confront every asshat whose ride it outside normal parameters, the added aggravation saps my energy and drags my earnings down. I just flow now.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

OldBay said:


> I agree with this. except for ghost rides


Nice, but don't knock em til you try em! Great supplemental trips each month and I've never been accused by Uber!


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Heisenburger said:


> Nice, but don't knock em til you try em! Great supplemental trips each month and I've never been accused by Uber!


No thanks, I actually like maintaining my high ratings, people actually do tip more when you act professional, driving clean car, actually dress like you are going to a job where you're greeting the public, and not wear a wife beater t-shirt and a pair of shorts and tennis shoes with dirty shoe strings , no I don't mean suit and tie, they can actually tell you're actually know how to drive and not just going through the motions because you're driving uber, you actually have a conversation if they want to talk, and not continue to run off like have diarrhea of mouth when they don't want to talk.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> No thanks, I actually like maintaining my high ratings


No pressure. I understand about the ratings. Honestly I dunno how it's not lower having done a couple dozen ghosts past 500 trips.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Nice, but don't knock em til you try em! Great supplemental trips each month and I've never been accused by Uber!


The key word in there that's missing is "yet."

You haven't been accused yet. All it takes is one complaint and you're there.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> All it takes is one complaint and you're there.


Yep that's right just like the same with shuffling.


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## Volvonaut (May 1, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> Nice, but don't knock em til you try em! Great supplemental trips each month and I've never been accused by Uber!


I like it, but wonder what actually happens if a passenger really complains loudly. Surprised I haven’t quite been at a point where I felt like doing one in all the years. Not really my style, much as I love occasionally sticking it to some trash riders. There is a special set of conditions I’m sure. Who knows Rohit may just want both parties happy on this episode of Uber hearsay. Sometimes against all odds I think I actually stay on the good side of the algorithm.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Volvonaut said:


> but wonder what actually happens if a passenger really complains loudly.


Easy: They ordered the ride for their roommate, friend, significant other, family member, etc ... and I took them.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Invisible said:


> but then you added age discrimination with the quote on minors


So you don't think it's age discrimination? If not then please describe what you think would be age discrimination.


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## ZippityDoDa (9 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> I know we're not (technically) allowed to take unaccompanies minors. Living in a throttled market in the summer, I know if I don't take the trip I will be sitting another 20 minutes for the next ping. If a person seems adult and is 16+ I will usually take them.
> 
> A few days ago, ping at a school (have been getting alot of these lately, school staff and janitorial getting school ready for coming year.)
> 
> ...


You might want to “re-think” what kinds of conversations you have with the very young. Gee.


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## ZippityDoDa (9 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> What the hell are you talking about?
> If anyone here is a victim ITS US!!!!!
> Uber doesnt gaf if they are 13 or freaking 90
> And for some god forsaken reason
> ...


Whenever you see someone that looks under 18, you can ask to see their ID. If they don’t have one, you can assume they “are” too young and click cancel - “unaccompanied minor”. Is that hard?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

ZippityDoDa said:


> Is that hard?


Yeah, haven't you read my comments here?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

ZippityDoDa said:


> Whenever you see someone that looks under 18, you can ask to see their ID. If they don’t have one, you can assume they “are” too young and click cancel - “unaccompanied minor”.


 You might be unaware of age discrimination.


> *Non-discrimination policy*
> In accordance with our community guidelines, Uber does not tolerate discrimination against riders or drivers based on:
> 
> Race
> ...


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Heisenburger said:


> You might be unaware of age discrimination.


So basically this is going to be a catch 22, so it's an 18 or 19-year-old young lady walked up to your car and she happens to look 14 15 16 17 years old and you asked her for our ID and she says I don't have my ID and you cancel and drive away now she files a complaint and she really is 18 19 years old you have guest age discriminated you are now subject to deactivation.


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## ZippityDoDa (9 mo ago)

Boca Ratman said:


> What are implying here?


Seems that’s a real problem; riders “and” drivers thinking drivers “have” to do this job - and that they only do it until they can get another blue collar low end something or another.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

painfreepc said:


> a catch 22, so it's an 18 or 19-year-old young lady walked up to your car and she happens to look 14 15 16 17 years old and you asked her for our ID


Yep, the older I get, the younger they look: male and female alike. Toss in some crossdressing and gender bending and all bets are off on the topic how old someone appears. ****it, because nothing's gonna happen to me anyway legally, *ever*, so I accept all humans, no questions asked, regardless of appearance.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> So you don't think it's age discrimination? If not then please describe what you think would be age discrimination.




Businesses can choose who to and not to do business with as long as the reason is defined as a protected class. 

What is a protected class? 










But @Boca Ratman it says right there in your screenshot age is a protected class. 



Yes, there is a law preventing discrimination based upon age, it's called the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1975. It applies to those of us 40 years old and older. This is what is being referenced by age in my screenshot. 


















What Is a Protected Class?


Here's what you need to know about the meaning of "protected class" in U.S. anti-discrimination law.




www.thoughtco.com




.

A minor, is generally considered to be under the age of 18. 

There are no laws protecting minors from discrimination as relates to this discussion. Restrictions placed by a business refusing minors is not discriminatory. 

But @Boca Ratman it doesn't say that minors are excluded. 










Uber's terms of service prohibit use of the service by minors therefore Uber's community guidelines exclude them in any discussion unless otherwise noted. 




Heisenburger said:


> If not then please describe what you think would be age discrimination.


It would be discrimination in anyway to anybody based on age except those under the age of 18. 

As explained above, minors are not allowed to use the service or have accounts with Uber therefore the guidelines do not apply to them unless specifically noted.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> Even when selecting the reason "unaccompanied minors"?
> 
> That's just weird to have to wait it out when you already know. It's nothing like a no show where the waiting itself is a necessary condition for compensation.


Yes. It will give you a cancel fee for ANY reason if you wait out the timer.

Conversely if you have something that is legitimate TOS violation (unaccompanied minor, too many people) that it makes no sense to have to wait it out to cancel and get paid for, you still have to wait it out in order to get paid.

I've gone back and forth with Rohit about this but it's the way it is. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

ZippityDoDa said:


> Seems that’s a real problem; riders “and” drivers thinking drivers “have” to do this job - and that they only do it until they can get another blue collar low end something or another.


Uh, okay?


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> Yes. It will give you a cancel fee for ANY reason if you wait out the timer.


Yeah, that's why I *practically* never cancel any trip. I'm not wasting my resources to get there and wait another 7 minutes for a mere $4.83. I'm a quest user. I'm sometimes riding empty if I feel like the trip's short enough to get away with. So far, so good!😄


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

painfreepc said:


> So basically this is going to be a catch 22, so it's an 18 or 19-year-old young lady walked up to your car and she happens to look 14 15 16 17 years old and you asked her for our ID and she says I don't have my ID and you cancel and drive away now she files a complaint and she really is 18 19 years old you have guest age discriminated you are now subject to deactivation.


In this scenario, it is not age discrimination, assuming you legitimately though this person to be possibly under 18. You did not deny her a ride because she was 18 or19 . You denied the ride because you thought she was under 18 and and she failed to prove otherwise and you should be fine. 

Now, in reality yes, you could face deactivation from Uber if she complains, not because they consider this discrimination but because of their failure/inability/ lack of caring to properly investigate the situation.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> What is a protected class?


And it's quite strange that Uber neglected to mention that term even just once here. If that's what they meant, then that's what they should have written. I'm certain they have competent attorneys who are paid to review their documentation.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Boca Ratman said:


> A minor, is generally considered to be under the age of 18.
> 
> There are no laws protecting minors from discrimination as relates to this discussion. Restrictions placed by a business refusing minors is not discriminatory.


There are mom and pop convenience stores that will have signs saying something to the effect of "under 16 must be accompanied by a parent" or "no more than 3 minors at a time".

I'm sure if those were violations they'd be sued left and right.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> And it's quite strange that Uber neglected to mention that term even just once here. If that's what they meant, then that's what they should have written. I'm certain they have competent attorneys who are paid to review their documentation.


Why is it strange? 

I find it strange that you think people have to be told to follow laws. 🤔


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> Yeah, that's why I *practically* never cancel any trip. I'm not wasting my resources to get there and wait another 7 minutes for a mere $4.83. I'm a quest user. I'm sometimes riding empty if I feel like the trip's short enough to get away with. So far, so good!😄


So you will complete a fraudulent trip that will probably result in a payout less than $4.83 versus canceling a trip to violates the terms of service for a higher payout? Makes sense


Heisenburger said:


> And it's quite strange that Uber neglected to mention that term even just once here. If that's what they meant, then that's what they should have written. I'm certain they have competent attorneys who are paid to review their documentation.


Apparently it doesn't matter what they mention in their terms of service. It seems you pick and choose which ones you comply with and which ones you violate


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

If age discrimination applied to minors I think credit card companies or any company that requires a contract to be signed, would be sued left and right for not servicing minors. Hell the government would be sued for not allowing them to vote


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Daisey77 said:


> If age discrimination applied to minors I think credit card companies or any company that requires a contract to be signed, would be sued left and right for not servicing minors. How the government would be sued for not allowing them to vote


Or denying minors booze and cigarettes


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> Makes sense


$3061 (gross revenue) / 222 (all completed trips) = $13.79 per trip average (rides & food)

$13.79 > $4.83

I win when I complete trips. I lose when I cancel trips, especially after time and expense getting to the pick-up spot plus burning another 7 minutes. I'm no schmuck.

How *doesn*'t this make sense?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> Age Discrimination in *Employment* Act of 1975


 Neither a driver nor a rider is being employed by Uber or one another, so citing that to attempt to support your position is, like grandpa used to say, "just plain ol' silly".


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> so citing that to attempt to support your position is, like grandpa used to say, "just plain ol' silly".


I didn't. 

Re-read my words carefully.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Neither a driver nor a rider is being employed by Uber or one another, so citing that to attempt to support your position is, like grandpa used to say, "just plain ol' silly".


Would really be plain ol' silly for me to think the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1975 would apply to the consumer, which this discussion is about. 

I even included an explanation in my post. 

To paraphraspe my grandfather:

Boy, you ain't all there in the head, are ya?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> Uber's terms of service prohibit use of the service by minors therefore Uber's community guidelines exclude them in any discussion unless otherwise noted.


You omitted a word: unaccompanied.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)




----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> View attachment 672250


I see conveniently ignored posts everywhere.



Heisenburger said:


> $3061 (gross revenue) / 222 (all completed trips) = $13.79 per trip average (rides & food)
> 
> $13.79 > $4.83
> 
> ...


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> $3061 (gross revenue) / 222 (all completed trips) = $13.79 per trip average (rides & food)
> 
> $13.79 > $4.83
> 
> ...


You said you ghost ride trips if you feel they're short enough to get away with it. What do you consider short? I would think a short trip is a minimum fare trip or close to it. I don't know what the rates arw in your Market but in my Market a $13.79 trip would consist of 24 minutes and 14 miles. Surely you don't consider that a short enough trip to where you could continuously get away with ghost runs. So I seriously doubt you're making that much more money on these fraudulent trips than you would be if you were legitimately canceling trips that go against our terms of service🤷‍♀️


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> What do you consider short?


I've done a couple around the 25-30 minutes range, but not recently. Typically they're 10-20 minutes.

It's the opportunity cost of the wasted time. And the completed trip is a quest trip and I get a few extra bucks for that.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

OldBay said:


> It was a summer activity group her parents put her in to meet people. She was not a middle schooler. I think 13/14 is freshman in HS.
> 
> As I said, the kids were pretty tall and not in middle school and there were a good number of adults there.


14/15 is a Freshman in HS. 13 is Junior High. You can’t go by height. My niece at 10 is taller than her 14 year old sister. 

What is odd about this whole situation is how you’re telling her how to get a car. Then you comment about when she gets her license, her parents can’t tell her what to do. Um yes they can until she’s 18 and/or still living with her parents. It’s not your right as a driver to tell her to disrespect her parents. Your job is to drive a pax.

While your intent may not be what it appears, the youth today are already not respecting or listening to elders or authority figure. And you’re giving her pointers that aren’t even relevant since she can’t drive.

Thirteen is still very young & impressionable, regardless of how the person looks older.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Invisible said:


> 14/15 is a Freshman in HS. 13 is Junior High. You can’t go by height. My niece at 10 is taller than her 14 year old sister.
> 
> What is odd about this whole situation is how you’re telling her how to get a car. Then you comment about when she gets her license, her parents can’t tell her what to do. Um yes they can until she’s 18 and/or still living with her parents. It’s not your right as a driver to tell her to disrespect her parents. Your job is to drive a pax.
> 
> ...


I only mentioned working to get a car when I thought she was of driving age. When I was growing up, working to buy a car and become independent was an important lesson. Then again, we didn't have Uber. Did not learn she was 13 until near the end of the ride.

The conversation I presented here was distilled from a slowish conversation that took place over ten minutes. I can see why the way I presented it could be seen as "creepy". The point of the story was that someone who appears to be 18 could actually only be 13.

The other thing that you may not have picked up is that she wanted to seem older than she was by the tone of her conversation. Just as she dressed to look more mature, she also was trying to speak in a more adult/casual way. It was only when I learned she was much younger that it fell apart. I admit I did not look _that_ closely at her, because I'm not in the habit of being creepy. My rear view is set so that I only see the tops of people heads. My impression was formed from the initial two seconds when she got in the car and said hello.

While you may think she is a "victim" she is an active participant in trying to look and act older than she is. Cue up the picture of Kylie Jenner and the influence that women like her have on 13 year olds. Did social media and bad parenting cause her to be this way, or is it in her/women's nature? Its a societal issue that is handled differently now than it was 50, 100, or 1000 years ago.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> You omitted a word: unaccompanied.


😆 🤣
Yes, I did. You caught me. 

You caught me giving credit to the reader to know I meant unaccompanied minors. I did not think it was not necessary because the thread is about unaccompanied minors. Any reader with very basic reading compression skills would know what I meant.

Hell, even you knew I meant unaccompanied minors.


----------



## Sproutski (Aug 23, 2018)

Terrapin Bound said:


> I may have unwittingly driven minors on a couple of occasions I can think of. Probably more though, factoring in the first year college girls when they're in season.
> 
> What's our actual liability if we allow an unaccompanied minor? Is this an insurance issue, like we believe too many pax to be? Or is it just a TOS thing, possible DA?
> 
> Plus of course the possible false allegations, but we've got that covered with our dashcams, right?


Our liability when we have an unaccompanied minor in the car is huge. There's a section way at the bottom of terms of service under the heading of "Indemnity". It says that if you/your rider are out of compliance with terms of service, Uber is indemnified. Transporting an unaccompanied minor as well as being an unaccompanied minor in an Uber ride is a breach of terms of service. That means all bets are off and Uber has no liability. Uber's insurance will not pay if they have no liability so that means no insurance for you or your rider if there's an accident. And because our personal car insurance is not in effect while we are doing Uber, a driver is completely exposed. You could lose everything.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Sproutski said:


> That means all bets are off and Uber has no liability. Uber's insurance will not pay if they have no liability so that means no insurance for you or your rider if there's an accident. And because our personal car insurance is not in effect while we are doing Uber, a driver is completely exposed. You could lose everything.


False.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

OldBay said:


> I only mentioned working to get a car when I thought she was of driving age. When I was growing up, working to buy a car and become independent was an important lesson. Then again, we didn't have Uber. Did not learn she was 13 until near the end of the ride.
> 
> The conversation I presented here was distilled from a slowish conversation that took place over ten minutes. I can see why the way I presented it could be seen as "creepy". The point of the story was that someone who appears to be 18 could actually only be 13.
> 
> ...


Yes, unfortunately the manner you presented this topic probably did take things out of context. Most young girls & teens do want to act older & try to portray that they are. It’s always been that way, but it’s more noticeable now.

I remember when Madonna first became popular, wearing her bra on stage. Now it’s the norm. When I was a teen, it was more of a conservative style. We wore leggings under our Jean skirts. Now so many are wearing them alone, displaying their camel toes.

As for your rider, I don’t think she’s the “victim”, nor did I write that or like a post that did. My concern for a rider like her is getting a driver who will prey on her overly friendly & sexualized image, when she’s a young teen. Again it’s the parents who set the tone.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Invisible said:


> Now so many are wearing them alone, displaying their camel toes.


Jesus loves Camel Toes too.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

...


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

OldBay said:


> The thing is though, I think that some of these young teens already know the score. A man can take advantage of a 13 yo, an 18yo, or a 24yo. Some 13yos could be more mature than women twice their age. So dressing promiscuosly and getting in an Uber is not a young girl problem.
> 
> She is already "trying out" her sexuality, and I can confirm this is not uncommon for teenage and college girls to flirt with an older man they find attractive. It is often portrayed as "grooming" by a man, but that overly friendly, attentive, and "focused on you" behavior is deliberate. They are not "just being friendly", they want to see if they can get a man to show interest in them. They want affirmation.
> 
> Men who are not predators realize what the girl is doing, but don't take action on it. Predators will keep angling to get closer so they can take action.


The girls you describe may have Daddy issues. Of course some know what they’re doing, but they’re still putting themselves in potential dangerous situations.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Invisible said:


> The girls you describe may have Daddy issues. Of course some know what they’re doing, but they’re still putting themselves in potential dangerous situations.


Daddy issues? If you watch any British dramas from the past 30 years you will see that a young girl having a crush on an older man is a common theme. 

I don't think women should be shamed as having mental problems, when they just want to do something that is built into their biology, yet that society has decided is inappropriate. 

I'm not saying it should be appropriate, but these young women don't necessarily have a mental disease and they are deliberate in the way they dress and act.

Lets put it another way. That particular girl is going to have alot of power over boys and men from now through her 20s.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Daddy issues? If you watch any British dramas from the past 30 years you will see that a young girl having a crush on an older man is a common theme.
> 
> I don't think women should be shamed as having mental problems, when they just want to do something that is built into their biology, yet that society has decided is inappropriate.
> 
> ...


You clearly think women are *****s. Same old 💩 on this forum. Geez!


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Invisible said:


> As for your rider, I don’t think she’s the “victim”, nor did I write that or like a post that did. My concern for a rider like her is getting a driver who will prey on her overly friendly & sexualized image, when she’s a young teen. Again it’s the parents who set the tone.


I have never asked for an ID of a rider. I've asked a few if they were 18 or older. I've nodded my head up and down as I asked on several of those. It's been a long time since I've had someone I suspected of being under aged, if I get a request to downtown at 1am and I think they are 16 - 17 chances are I'm completing the ride. If I cancel and report the account and then the next morning on the news is a story about 3 teens getting hit by a drunk 
driver walking home from downtown, I'd probably have trouble sleeping and I need my beauty sleep. 

If it's midnight and the same group is leaving a dark house going downtown, I'm probably going to cancel if I think they are kids. 

A few years ago I had a late night request like 1 am to a house. Get a message to wait at the stop sign at the end of the road or something similar. House was dark. I see a light go on then off and this kid comes climbing out the window. 
That's a cancel. I wanted to knock on the door and let her parents know what almost happened, I didn't but I seriously considered it. 

Most of the time, I don't get a good enough look at the person getting in my car to make a judgment on their age.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Invisible said:


> Again it’s the parents who set the tone.


Parents don't have super natural powers to mind control their children. I wish we did. Kids at some point develope into their own. Girls, this happens much sooner than with boys. 

I have two daughters, neither one has or will walk out of the house dressed like some hoochie mama. But I'd be foolish to think that she stayed dressed like she was when she left the house. A 13/14 year old girl is going to defy her parent's wishes,, their hormones kick in and they want to draw attention from boys. They are going to be their own person no matter what. Even with the best upbringing, they are going to make some personal choices that we don't approve.

Some kids, the more you try to steer them one way the more determined they become to go the opposite. I'm not giving every parent a pass there is a lot of shitty parents who raise horrible little humans. But there's also a lot of horrible humans out there who had good parents and achieve the status on their own.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

...


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> Parents don't have super natural powers to mind control their children. I wish we did. Kids at some point develope into their own. Girls, this happens much sooner than with boys.
> 
> I have two daughters, neither one has or will walk out of the house dressed like some hoochie mama. But I'd be foolish to think that she stayed dressed like she was when she left the house. A 13/14 year old girl is going to defy her parent's wishes,, their hormones kick in and they want to draw attention from boys. They are going to be their own person no matter what. Even with the best upbringing, they are going to make some personal choices that we don't approve.
> 
> Some kids, the more you try to steer them one way the more determined they become to go the opposite. I'm not giving every parent a pass there is a lot of shitty parents who raise horrible little humans. But there's also a lot of horrible humans out there who had good parents and achieve the status on their own.


Also I should say their are plenty of very good people out there who are good despite their shitty upbringing.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Invisible said:


> Again it’s the parents who set the tone.


Going back and reading more of the thread I think I stuck my nose in where it may not have belonged. Probably should have kept my fingers in my pockets. 😆 🤣 😂


----------



## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

OldBay said:


> Daddy issues? If you watch any British dramas from the past 30 years you will see that a young girl having a crush on an older man is a common theme.
> 
> I don't think women should be shamed as having mental problems, when they just want to do something that is built into their biology, yet that society has decided is inappropriate.
> 
> ...


You need help , now I understand why most of your threads get very few responses


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Emptynesst said:


> You need help , now I understand why most of your threads get very few responses


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> Parents don't have super natural powers to mind control their children. I wish we did. Kids at some point develope into their own. Girls, this happens much sooner than with boys.
> 
> I have two daughters, neither one has or will walk out of the house dressed like some hoochie mama. But I'd be foolish to think that she stayed dressed like she was when she left the house. A 13/14 year old girl is going to defy her parent's wishes,, their hormones kick in and they want to draw attention from boys. They are going to be their own person no matter what. Even with the best upbringing, they are going to make some personal choices that we don't approve.
> 
> Some kids, the more you try to steer them one way the more determined they become to go the opposite. I'm not giving every parent a pass there is a lot of shitty parents who raise horrible little humans. But there's also a lot of horrible humans out there who had good parents and achieve the status on their own.


The point I wa making was the OP was out of line to give the rider pointers on defying her parents. I agree with a few responses where others said that it’s creepy how the ride went.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

OldBay said:


> I don't know what the asterisks means.
> 
> Women are sexual just like men. Women experiment with their looks to see what is attractive to men, what can get them attention.
> 
> Puberty starts earlier for girls than it does for boys. I think I'm being a realist. I did not say the girl was bad, had daddy issues, was a ****, or anything else. Just that she was well developed and dressed to impress. And she was trying to interact with me like an adult would. As the conversation went on I found out she was much younger than she presented initially.


The * weren’t done by me but this site flagged the word w h o r e s.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Invisible said:


> The * weren’t done by me but this site flagged the word w h o r e s.


The ride was not creepy, the story may have been a little bit because it was intended to communicate the experience of finding out someone who you though was nearly an adult was much younger.

Look back at my posts, I did not say she was bad, did not call her any names. The conversation was G-rated and appropriate for a 16+. did not learn her true age til near the end of ride. All I did was suggest she could buy the car herself. I did not tell her to DEFY HER PARENTS. Just suggested that if she bought the car with money she saved, her parents would be less likely to make her do chores with it.

I think you are the one with the hangups. It was supposed to be an amusing story. It made some of the women here freak out and start pointing fingers.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Invisible said:


> Then you comment about when she gets her license, her parents can’t tell her what to do. Um yes they can until she’s 18 and/or still living with her parents.


Well, it's the parents' job, but that doesn't mean the teenaged girl is going to listen or comply. "Ask me how I know this."

For what it's worth, in my first marriage, I had a teenaged step-daughter, who was intent on not listening to either of us.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Invisible said:


> The point I wa making wa the OP was out of line to give the rider pointers on defying her parents. I agree with a few responses where others said that it’s creepy how the ride went.


I realized that after I replied. 



Boca Ratman said:


> Going back and reading more of the thread I think I stuck my nose in where it may not have belonged. Probably should have kept my fingers in my pockets. 😆 🤣 😂


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> Well, it's the parents' job, but that doesn't mean the teenaged girl is going to listen or comply. "Ask me how I know this."
> 
> For what it's worth, in my first marriage, I had a teenaged step-daughter, who was intent on not listening to either of us.


True, & I was a teen was. Yet still the OP, a mature adult, advisd a young teen what to do when he’s some random stranger. He’s not her parent, not her relative, not her teacher & not a family friend.

Reread how the conversation went, in his words. It’s hard enough for parents to raise kids nowadays. They don’t need a stranger who doesn’t know them or their child telling the child what to do, even if the child is a teen.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Invisible said:


> True, & I was a teen was. Yet still the OP, a mature adult, advisd a young teen what to do when he’s some random stranger. He’s not her parent, not her relative, not her teacher & not a family friend.
> 
> Reread how the conversation went, in his words. It’s hard enough for parents to raise kids nowadays. They don’t need a stranger who doesn’t know them or their child telling the child what to do, even if the child is a teen.


Invisible. You are going full psycho. Screen caps and large text to make your point after repeatedly saying I was telling someone to DEFY their parents (which absolutely wasn't the case.) Now you have shifted the verbiage that a mature adult was advising a "young teen" what to do. (The whole point of the story was that she did not look or act like a young teen.)

People get messaging from TV shows, friends, uber drivers, teachers, etc. I did nothing wrong but suggest that its empowering to have a job and save money to buy a car.

This was just a fraction of casual conversation in a ten minute ride, that was tweaked to fit into a story that I thought would be entertaining.

I did nothing wrong, but you are going psycho.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

OldBay said:


> Invisible. You are going full psycho.


QFT


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Invisible. You are going full psycho. Screen caps and large text to make your point after repeatedly saying I was telling someone to DEFY their parents (which absolutely wasn't the case.) Now you have shifted the verbiage that a mature adult was advising a "young teen" what to do. (The whole point of the story was that she did not look or act like a young teen.)
> 
> People get messaging from TV shows, friends, uber drivers, teachers, etc. I did nothing wrong but suggest that its empowering to have a job and save money to buy a car.
> 
> ...


If you have to degrade me on a forum with a derogatory word (calling me a psycho) and using larger font, you may want to look at yourself and what you can improve upon.

Your viewpoint of me has no relevance to me. When you resort to name calling, that’s just uncouth and petty, and serves no purpose. 

I stand by this. While creepy may not be the correct word of your ride & conversation with this teen, then inappropriate is. 

Have a great night and hope you can relax.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Invisible said:


> If you have to degrade me on a forum with a derogatory word (calling me a psycho) and using larger font, you may want to look at yourself and what you can improve upon.
> 
> Your viewpoint of me has no relevance to me. When you resort to name calling, that’s just uncouth and petty, and serves no purpose.
> 
> ...


Do you have any self awareness and realize you just did the same thing? Basically calling me a predator?


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Do you have any self awareness and realize you just did the same thing? Basically calling me a predator?


I never called you a predator. In my first reply to this thread,I even said thankfully you’re not a predator.

See things, as you wish. It has no bearing on me. I’m just an invisible person on a forum trying to state my viewpoint. Yes I have a profound sense of self-awareness, enough to not engage in name calling.

Have a good night!


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Invisible said:


> I never called you a predator. In my first reply to this thread,I even said thankfully you’re not a predator.
> 
> See things, as you wish. It has no bearing on me. I’m just an invisible person on a forum trying to state my viewpoint. Yes I have a profound sense of self-awareness, enough to not engage in name calling.
> 
> Have a good night!


You're so invisible that you made my ignore list. To never be seen or heard again.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Right about now I would have came in with the "hair on the playing field joke", but it seems hair on the playing field is not a thing right now.


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## ZippityDoDa (9 mo ago)

Sproutski said:


> Our liability when we have an unaccompanied minor in the car is huge. There's a section way at the bottom of terms of service under the heading of "Indemnity". It says that if you/your rider are out of compliance with terms of service, Uber is indemnified. Transporting an unaccompanied minor as well as being an unaccompanied minor in an Uber ride is a breach of terms of service. That means all bets are off and Uber has no liability. Uber's insurance will not pay if they have no liability so that means no insurance for you or your rider if there's an accident. And because our personal car insurance is not in effect while we are doing Uber, a driver is completely exposed. You could lose everything.


WELL…. you certainly do have coverage when you add ride-share to your personal policy. You should NEVER be without that. 

I imagine that when you have this coverage you will also have an attorney to represent you, should something unusual happen (say you’re giving a ride to a mature looking 15 year old you never would have assumed is a minor) and Ubers insurance coverage is needed (due to something extraordinary).

But I don’t know for sure. Good question for your attorney or at least checking in


Invisible said:


> Yes, unfortunately the manner you presented this topic probably did take things out of context. Most young girls & teens do want to act older & try to portray that they are. It’s always been that way, but it’s more noticeable now.
> 
> I remember when Madonna first became popular, wearing her bra on stage. Now it’s the norm. When I was a teen, it was more of a conservative style. We wore leggings under our Jean skirts. Now so many are wearing them alone, displaying their camel toes.
> 
> As for your rider, I don’t think she’s the “victim”, nor did I write that or like a post that did. My concern for a rider like her is getting a driver who will prey on her overly friendly & sexualized image, when she’s a young teen. Again it’s the parents who set the tone.


Yeah, it’s concerning that anyone might prey on her. Too bad someone isn’t watching over her better in how she’s dressing. Her parents could be completely unaware. Even years ago when I was in middle school or high school, girls would hide their makeup and clothes they owned and then change elsewhere. Very sneaky naïve girls that got ideas in their heads that had no idea where it could lead; and today probably much worse. I didn’t get why’d they feel like doing that then; or today. Sad we don’t all let these girls, as we notice what they’re doing, know how much harm they’re doing to themselves.

FYI: I usually cancel any ride where I’m requested to pickup at the topless bars and strip clubs. Makes me nauseous.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

ZippityDoDa said:


> FYI: I usually cancel any ride where I’m requested to pickup at the topless bars and strip clubs. Makes me nauseous.


Why? Some of your worst tippers come from these places!

Besides, where else are you going to meet a pregnant stripper who has a baby and then becomes a lactating stripper? Yup, I can check both them boxes off..


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## colamacy (Oct 25, 2021)

Daisey77 said:


> I won't and they don't . . . well maybe when they get left stranded at their pickup spot but Luckily I don't start the trip so they can't unfairly bad rate me. _gasp_ Oh no women hate me? whatever will I do? It sounds like to me that you take the minors so that they don't hate you? Why is that? why would you want minors to like you? Inquiring minds are wanting to know.


I bet you'll change your tune if there's an uptick of minors requesting rides. Then there are tons of young looking adult females...whatcha gonna do then? Cancel to save yourself from being rated 1 star or just timidly ask them if they're 18 or over in hopes that comes off as a compliment? I know you won't ask for ID so that's out the window and if you just take their word for it then that sort of defeats the purpose of vetting adults pax from minors. Either way, you're bleep out of luck till Sunday.




Daisey77 said:


> Oh and as to the zero number of drivers who have been sued in court, if you are in fact able to even prove that, that would be because . . . hello, passengers are tied arbitration agreements just like the drivers. So it would technically be an arbitration case not a lawsuit😎😁
> yep because that's the company policy🤷‍♀️


You want me to prove a negative? That's your comeback? Ugh...


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

colamacy said:


> I bet you'll change your tune if there's an uptick of minors requesting rides.


 I bet I won't. Why would there be an uptick of minors requesting rides anyways?


colamacy said:


> Then there are tons of young looking adult females...whatcha gonna do then?


 ummmm . . . ask for an ID


colamacy said:


> Cancel to save yourself from being rated 1


Nope



colamacy said:


> or just timidly ask them if they're 18 or over in hopes that comes off as a compliment?


😂🤣 I don't think timid and I have ever been in the same sentence together


colamacy said:


> I know you won't ask for ID so that's out the window


Hmmmm . . . And how do you know that? I actually have no problem asking for an ID. I've left a couple passengers on the side of the road who swore up and down they were 18 but didn't have an ID🤷‍♀️



colamacy said:


> Either way, your bleep out of luck till Sunday.


what's Sunday??



colamacy said:


> You want me to prove a negative? That's your comeback? Ugh


 Huh? I didn't ask you to prove anything


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Invisible said:


> True, & I was a teen was. Yet still the OP, a mature adult, advisd a young teen what to do when he’s some random stranger. He’s not her parent, not her relative, not her teacher & not a family friend.
> 
> Reread how the conversation went, in his words. It’s hard enough for parents to raise kids nowadays. They don’t need a stranger who doesn’t know them or their child telling the child what to do, even if the child is a teen.
> View attachment 672455


There's something else getting missed in this discussion too.

Many teens these days don't WANT to have a car. Much, perhaps most, of their socializing is done using text messages.

Travelling from place to place is irrelevant to them. They figure they'll get anything they need delivered. If they absolutely HAVE to go somewhere, they use Uber.

One of my nieces was like that. She was about 19 years old when my brother and his family were moving 1,000 miles. They basically forced her to get a driver's license, because they needed another driver to help with moving all the stuff.

Getting a driver's license is not the rite of passage that it used to be.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Yuppers....
The shuffle fest has begun.

Shuffled 3 this morning. 

"But how am I going to get to school, I'm going to be late!"


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> There's something else getting missed in this discussion too.
> 
> Many teens these days don't WANT to have a car. Much, perhaps most, of their socializing is done using text messages.
> 
> ...


I don’t see connection to your comment & this thread about a minor who looked like an adult.

I no longer wish to comment on this thread.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Invisible said:


> I no longer wish to comment on this thread.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> View attachment 672687


⭐


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## ZippityDoDa (9 mo ago)

W00dbutcher said:


> Why? Some of your worst tippers come from these places!
> 
> Besides, where else are you going to meet a pregnant stripper who has a baby and then becomes a lactating stripper? Yup, I can check both them boxes off..


Why? Because it kinda makes me nauseous…..

“pregnant stripper”? That’s sad. I dare to ask: “where” are you driving?

And it’d be even worse if i asked and they answered, “so how was your night, tonight”? Do I want to know? No 🙄

Actually, when I follow-through and pick them up, I simply do not ask: “how was your evening” and they 95% do not talk about it. And they typically tip (or not) like anyone else.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

ZippityDoDa said:


> Why? Because it kinda makes me nauseous…..
> 
> “pregnant stripper”? That’s sad. I dare to ask: “where” are you driving?
> 
> ...


Come on pregnant strippers do you really have to ask where I'm at ?

Our local government has to make these, this should tell you everything.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Come on pregnant strippers do you really have to ask where I'm at ?
> 
> Our local government has to make these, this should tell you everything.
> 
> View attachment 672900











Florida Man


Florida Man is a Twitter feed that curates news headline descriptions of bizarre domestic incidents involving a male subject residing in the state of Florida. The tweets are meant to be humorously read as if they were perpetrated by a single individual dubbed “the world’s worst superhero.” In...




knowyourmeme.com


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

W00dbutcher said:


> Come on pregnant strippers do you really have to ask where I'm at ?
> 
> Our local government has to make these, this should tell you everything.
> 
> View attachment 672900



😆 🤣 When I was kid, 14 or 15 I got a job at publix. Back by the time clock on the wall where all the mandatory informational posters, workers comp, minimum wage, etc. 

One of the posters explained the FL law and limitations of 14-15, and 16-17 year olds. There was a paragraph dedicated to alligator wrestling. I wish I could remember all the details but I'm pretty sure you had to be at least 16 years old to be employed as a professional alligator wrestler in the early 80s. 
😆 🤣 😂


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> Florida Man
> 
> 
> Florida Man is a Twitter feed that curates news headline descriptions of bizarre domestic incidents involving a male subject residing in the state of Florida. The tweets are meant to be humorously read as if they were perpetrated by a single individual dubbed “the world’s worst superhero.” In...
> ...


Try to keep up, she asked where not who.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Try to keep up, she asked where not who.


At least as relevant as alligator sign.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> At least as relevant as alligator sign.


Actually that sign is very relevant. Not only does it show the crazy rabbit hole depth here, it actually States(pun intended) in two places where that sign is at/from. So yes it is very relevant to identifying where I was, like asked.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

I looked online for the poster from the 80s to no avail. 

But, in the actual 2022 law, alligator wrestling is specifically prohibited buy 14 & 15 year olds. 😆 🤣 😂 so is working in a snake pit.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> I looked online for the poster from the 80s to no avail.


I admire your dedication and strenuous effort.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> Then you can take Becca all you want.


✅


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> non-disclosure agreements are signed


Citation please.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)




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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> View attachment 673551
> View attachment 673552


Yet there's zero mention here of:

Having to needlessly wait out a silly 5 minute timer when you discover this immediately upon arrival
Being compensated
Being deactivated for disregarding the suggestions
Being an illegal/unlawful action
Just more wishy-washy language to appease that minority of drivers who be scared of kids.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> Yet there's zero mention here of:
> 
> Having to needlessly wait out a silly 5 minute timer when you discover this immediately upon arrival
> Being compensated
> ...


Seriously? 

Uber's telling you plainly and clearly not to take unaccompanied minors. 

You get a cancelation fee after 5/7 minutes depending on the market.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Yet there's zero mention here of:
> 
> Having to needlessly wait out a silly 5 minute timer when you discover this immediately upon arrival
> Being compensated
> ...


I just thought the timing of this reminder was funny is all but I will address your concerns. 

1 & 2) can be combined and we've covered this. You don't have to wait out the timer to cancel, you can cancel anytime after accepting. You do have to wait out the timer to collect a driver initiated cancel fee no matter the reason. 

3) It's in the link, here's the link.

https://www.uber.com/legal/en/docum...nity-guidelines&country=united-states&lang=en


















4) I've never claimed it was illegal/unlawful. It would be up to individual state or local law. It's not illegal in the state I live, Florida. 




Heisenburger said:


> Just more wishy-washy language to appease that minority of drivers who be scared of kids.


This makes no sense to me.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> You do have to wait out the timer to collect a driver initiated cancel fee no matter the reason.


 I merely highlighted that they neglected to specify such. Now drivers who don't know about the mandatory waiting period (app won't alert them either) lose out on the fee.



Boca Ratman said:


> 3) It's in the link, here's the link.


Meh. It still says "may". That's not "will". You know they're desperate for new ants and new ants are expensive for them. They *won't* deactivate veterans like me for something trivial and stupid like this. They're not dumb.



Boca Ratman said:


> This makes no sense to me.


Ah well.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> You get a cancelation fee after 5/7 minutes depending on the market.


7 minutes here and likely another 7-10 minutes plus miles to get there. 15-20 minutes for $4.83 and zero credit towards Quest volume. Forget that. Not on my watch. The kid is riding.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

New2This said:


> Then you can take Becca all you want.


----------



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Heisenburger said:


> View attachment 673639


See how it's a better deal?


----------

