# advice for complacent Uber drivers



## humandriver (Sep 16, 2014)

Stop driving for Uber. Without the drivers there is no company(for now). Stop them dead in their tracks.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Yep that would work......for a couple of hours


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## where's the beef? (Sep 16, 2014)

Yeah, if we all jump at the same time, Earth's orbit will change...


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## Optimus Uber (Oct 7, 2014)

humandriver said:


> Stop driving for Uber. Without the drivers there is no company(for now). Stop them dead in their tracks.


hell no, I make good money. Yeah you all quit and ill capitalize on the surge.


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## UberXNinja (Jul 12, 2014)

Funny how many people come in this forum and tell drivers to stop driving for Uber, while they sit there waiting for their next ping.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

where's the beef? said:


> Yeah, if we all jump at the same time, Earth's orbit will change...


 please tell me you don't think if the earth stop spinning we would all fall up.


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## Jimmy Lee Hagerty (Nov 2, 2014)

Optimus Uber said:


> hell no, I make good money. Yeah you all quit and ill capitalize on the surge.


DITTO, let them ALL quit and you and I will cry all the way to the bank.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

The people who complain you can't make money driving for Uber and suggest we all quit/strike are the same ones who complain there are too many drivers. They don't see the failure of that logic. These people simply aren't intelligent enough to be successful ride share drivers.


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Brady said:


> The people who complain you can't make money driving for Uber and suggest we all quit/strike are the same ones who complain there are too many drivers. They don't see the failure of that logic. These people simply aren't intelligent enough to be successful ride share drivers.


well, please enlighten me on the failure of said logic. Dont forget to put in your rates, expenses and any othe little nugget of wisdom to justify calling me unintelligent


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Ideally, it wouldn't be quitting at the same time but "selling our services as a whole" to the highest bidder.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

suewho said:


> well, please enlighten me on the failure of said logic. Dont forget to put in your rates, expenses and any othe little nugget of wisdom to justify calling me unintelligent


It's elementary economics -a very basic supply and demand relationship. If drivers weren't making money driving for Uber, they'd quit. If they were making money but they amount they're making isn't worth their time and hassle, they'd quit. The fact that Uber isn't having a problem finding an adequate number of drivers in most cities shows they have a business model that's working for them and a large enough number of drivers. It's that basic supply and demand logic that some drivers with an entitlement mentality fail to grasp. It's no different than the complaints we've been hearing for years about how Wal Mart treats its employees. Yet Wal Mart has prospered as a company. Go figure.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Brady said:


> It's elementary economics -a very basic supply and demand relationship. If drivers weren't making money driving for Uber, they'd quit. If they were making money but they amount they're making isn't worth their time and hassle, they'd quit. The fact that Uber isn't having a problem finding an adequate number of drivers in most cities shows they have a business model that's working for them and a large enough number of drivers. It's that basic supply and demand logic that some drivers with an entitlement mentality fail to grasp. It's no different than the complaints we've been hearing for years about how Wal Mart treats its employees. Yet Wal Mart has prospered as a company. Go figure.


Yes the Economy is shit. 
Yes that works for both WalMart and Uber.


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

Brady said:


> It's elementary economics -a very basic supply and demand relationship. If drivers weren't making money driving for Uber, they'd quit. If they were making money but they amount they're making isn't worth their time and hassle, they'd quit. The fact that Uber isn't having a problem finding an adequate number of drivers in most cities shows they have a business model that's working for them and a large enough number of drivers. It's that basic supply and demand logic that some drivers with an entitlement mentality fail to grasp. It's no different than the complaints we've been hearing for years about how Wal Mart treats its employees. Yet Wal Mart has prospered as a company. Go figure.


People are not liquid like money is, and _**** economicus_ is a completely discredited model used by businessmen and no one else. Circumstances force people to do things they don't want to, that are not really in their interests. Are you a human being or a Reason.com propaganda piece. It's sad that a certain sort of person needs to get ****ed hard before learning that the world is not like they thought.

The post-Halloween glow around here is kind of pathetic. Uber will see your joy turn to ashes in your mouth with another rate cut and on-demand refunds.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

LAuberX said:


> Yes the Economy is shit.
> Yes that works for both WalMart and Uber.


No one is forced to work for either WalMart or drive for Uber. And even during a recession, there are enterprising people who will prosper. There are numerous companies that still exist today the began during the Great Depression. One of the benefits of an economic downtown is that it eliminates waste and inspires innovation. Hunger is a great motivator. Entitlement is a great demotivator. Think of an Uber fare cut in a market as a type of recession. It will eliminate a number of drivers but the more resourceful ones will ultimately be better off because of it.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Brady, I hope you get all the rate cuts you wish for.

I'll even give you my last three.


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

Brady said:


> No one is forced to work for either WalMart or drive for Uber. And even during a recession, there are enterprising people who will prosper. There are numerous companies that still exist today the began during the Great Depression. One of the benefits of an economic downtown is that it eliminates waste and inspires innovation. Hunger is a great motivator. Entitlement is a great demotivator. Think of an Uber fare cut in a market as a type of recession. It will eliminate a number of drivers but the more resourceful ones will ultimately be better off because of it.


Not going to name call, but this shit makes no sense and you need to curtail your Fox News viewing from four hours/day to 1. By holding these beliefs, you harm the weak, and indeed anyone dependent on a paycheck. Please find Jesus and reform your callous, wicked ways.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

troubleinrivercity said:


> It's sad that a certain sort of person needs to get ****ed hard before learning that the world is not like they thought.


It would be great if we could all have a $20 minimum wage and no inflation. Or if gasoline was fixed at $1/gallon and there were no shortages due to increased demand. But that's not how free markets work. Free markets provide a freedom to prosper as well as a freedom to "get ****ed hard". Uber drivers are all independent contractors. We each run our own small business. And like with any small business owner, if we don't act intelligently, we fail. If someone wants a job where they don't have to think for themselves, those options exist. But those jobs have plenty of downsides to them.


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Brady said:


> It's elementary economics -a very basic supply and demand relationship. If drivers weren't making money driving for Uber, they'd quit. If they were making money but they amount they're making isn't worth their time and hassle, they'd quit. The fact that Uber isn't having a problem finding an adequate number of drivers in most cities shows they have a business model that's working for them and a large enough number of drivers. It's that basic supply and demand logic that some drivers with an entitlement mentality fail to grasp. It's no different than the complaints we've been hearing for years about how Wal Mart treats its employees. Yet Wal Mart has prospered as a company. Go figure.


the fact that uber isnt having any problems finding an adequate suppy of drivers is probably due to the fact that they put grossly exaggerated earnings potential in their want ads. They suck in drivers with lies and unsustainable guarantees, and often unobtainable guarantees.
also, understanding uber economics is in its purest form economics 101. To truly understand it, you have to go beyond chapter 1 of your high school text book.


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

They sucked in most of their current passengers with the lie that the tip is included. They may someday pay for this in court. Spoke to a longtime Lyft driver today at the car wash and he said all his passengers seem to want to talk about is how they deleted the Uber app due to the company's poor treatment of drivers. Anyone who was waiting for the competitor to go away and rates to rise is going to have to wait a little longer.

Brady, when a company wants to tell a lie, should they be allowed to if no one can stop them. I’ve heard libertarians claim 1. that courts (not regulation) are the recourse to corporate lying, and 2. courts are immoral, realpolitik rules.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

At Grand Rapids MI current UberX rates I basically agreed with Brady to some extent even with the hidden costs that many Drivers don't "see" like Risk transfer of TNCs without Commercial Insurance (it's still a grey area) and vehicle depreciation which makes a good percentage of "income" like a payday loan.

But what happens when those Grand Rapids MI UberX rates are reduced like the Minimum by 1.5x, the Base by 3.5x, and the Miles by 1.75x? Which drivers will be better off (Yes, I'm using a Surge Factor to keep it simple).


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Brady said:


> It would be great if we could all have a $20 minimum wage and no inflation. Or if gasoline was fixed at $1/gallon and there were no shortages due to increased demand. But that's not how free markets work. Free markets provide a freedom to prosper as well as a freedom to "get ****ed hard". Uber drivers are all independent contractors. We each run our own small business. And like with any small business owner, if we don't act intelligently, we fail. If someone wants a job where they don't have to think for themselves, those options exist. But those jobs have plenty of downsides to them.


my partner and I are successful small business owners, just one of the reasons we didnt just walk away from uber....we ran.


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

Brady, the 1099 thing is a scam. It’s used to take freedom from you, not give it to you. Freedom to work or starve is not the definition of freedom accepted by all. A definition flat-out rejected by our 32nd president in his ‘Four Freedoms’ speech.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

Brady said:


> It's elementary economics -a very basic supply and demand relationship. If drivers weren't making money driving for Uber, they'd quit. If they were making money but they amount they're making isn't worth their time and hassle, they'd quit. The fact that Uber isn't having a problem finding an adequate number of drivers in most cities shows they have a business model that's working for them and a large enough number of drivers. It's that basic supply and demand logic that some drivers with an entitlement mentality fail to grasp. It's no different than the complaints we've been hearing for years about how Wal Mart treats its employees. Yet Wal Mart has prospered as a company. Go figure.


Unfortunately, I have come to have the belief that a fair numbers of drivers do not know how little that they are making. Some underestimate or even ignore expense that they are incurring. Sometimes it takes while for newer drivers to realize that the bloated and fraudulent numbers that Uber claims in the Craigslist help wanted ads are not reality and will never happen. Uber capitalizes on the ignorance of these newer drivers. There are other drivers who realize that they are sucking the equity out of their cars, but decide that their situation is dire enough, that they still continue to drive despite the poor numbers.

As for your Walmart analogy I would suggest that even if Walmart prospers, that does not mean that they treat their employees well. It also does not mean that Walmart hasn't structured their hiring practices in such a way that their employees are likely to need more public assistance then similar companies that treat their employees better, like Costco.



Brady said:


> ...
> Think of an Uber fare cut in a market as a type of recession. It will eliminate a number of drivers but the more resourceful ones will ultimately be better off because of it.


I have found reading these boards that people with your position are quite likely newer drivers in newer markets. It is easy for you to downplay rate cuts when the Grand Rapids fares are:
Base: $2.80, $0.20/minute, and $1.60/mile. While the time rate is pretty low, your base and mileage fees are far above average. Be careful what you wish for, since I am sure a fare cut (or several) will be heading your way soon. Since your costs won't change, the fare cut will come right off of your profit line, and the percentage dip in profits will be greater than the percentage fare cut. Maybe you will be the first driver on these boards to report that they are better off after a rate cut. Not one single driver has reported to be better off after a fare cut. Until I read about it happening, I find your statement that "resourceful ones will ultimately be better off" to be utter unsubstantiated bullshit.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

SCdave said:


> At Grand Rapids MI current UberX rates I basically agreed with Brady to some extent even with the hidden costs that many Drivers don't "see" like Risk transfer of TNCs without Commercial Insurance (it's still a grey area) and vehicle depreciation which makes a good percentage of "income" like a payday loan.
> 
> But what happens when those Grand Rapids MI UberX rates are are reduced like the Minimum by 1.5x, the Base by 3.5x, and the Miles by 1.75x? Which drivers will be better off (Yes, I'm using a Surge Factor to keep it simple).


That's a great question because that day is coming shortly. Look up and compare rates in Grand Rapids, MI to rates in Detroit, MI. Detroit has Lyft as well as Uber. Grand Rapids doesn't yet but likely will by Summer 2015. As a Grand Rapids Uber driver, I anticipate making Detroit rates once Lyft arrives. As an independent contractor, I need to develop a personal strategy to deal with that or simply quit driving. I've given this some thought already. I currently drive a Dodge Charger R/T which gets a real world 14.9 mpg based on my driving habits. That's far from an ideal vehicle but even with its poor fuel economy, I'm making decent money driving at current Grand Rapids Uber rates. Gas costs are a big chunk of my operating costs. One of the things I'm going to need to do to survive is to lower those costs. That's likely going to mean selling the fun & flashy Charger and getting a Ford Fusion Hybrid that will cut my gasoline costs in half. I'll also likely end up driving for both Lyft and Uber to increase ride request frequency (In fact, I've already signed up for Lyft), limiting the hours I drive to higher demand times and only accepting ride requests that are closer to me than what I'll drive now to reach one. I'll adapt and make the system work for me. And if I can't, I'll know within a couple of weeks that it's time for me to quit driving. If I quit, I know other drivers will fill the gap. While I won't be an Uber driver anymore, I'll still be an Uber rider (with much lower fares) because it makes more sense than taking a taxi.


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

Hah, he’s certainly on his way to $.90/mile. Brady isn’t it a little unfair to Chicago drivers for you to make 75% more than them per mile? I’m sure Uber will soon see it that way. Good luck with your margins and ubermensch stuff?

15 mpg UberX? Now I’ve seen everything. Brady any day now you’re getting the Chicago rate. 80 cents base and 90 cents per mile.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

troubleinrivercity said:


> 15 mpg UberX? Now I've seen everything. Brady any day now you're getting the Chicago rate. 80 cents base and 90 cents per mile.


When that day comes, I'll quit driving for Uber. I don't see how I could break even with rates that low. It certainly wouldn't be worth my time. But I would take Uber as a rider much more frequently. Hell, at those rates, it might be cheaper not to own a car at all and just take Uber all the time -just like many Chicago residents do now.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

Brady said:


> When that day comes, I'll quit driving for Uber. I don't see how I could break even with rates that low. It certainly wouldn't be worth my time. But I would take Uber as a rider much more frequently. Hell, at those rates, it might be cheaper not to own a car at all and just take Uber all the time -just like many Chicago residents do now.


Will you tip the drivers Brady?


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## suewho (Sep 27, 2014)

Brady said:


> The people who complain you can't make money driving for Uber and suggest we all quit/strike are the same ones who complain there are too many drivers. They don't see the failure of that logic. These people simply aren't intelligent enough to be successful ride share drivers.


so you're saying that you may not be intelligent enough to be a successful ride share driver after all


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

unter ling said:


> Will you tip the drivers Brady?


It depends on the trip. I tip Uber other drivers now based on certain factors in the trip that are important to me. Are they getting to me in a reasonable amount of time or do I have to wait three minutes before they get on the road? Are both the car and driver relatively clean? Do they pick me up in the location I requested or make me walk to them (when it's not necessary)? Are they using their navigation to take the best route? Are they friendly and pleasant to talk to? Are there amenities that go above and beyond what's expected of an UberX? Those are all criteria on which I base my tip. Some rides I've tipped more than 50% of the fare. Some I haven't tipped at all. And I've had one truly bad Uber experience where I made him stop the car and let me out and gave the driver a 1 rating.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

suewho said:


> so you're saying that you may not be intelligent enough to be a successful ride share driver after all


Intelligence is just one factor in determining success. Often, even an Einstein can't make the financials work for him. The intelligent driver then knows it's time to quit driving. It's the ignorant ones that keep doing it while they whine on internet forums.


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

Brady said:


> It depends on the trip. I tip Uber other drivers now based on certain factors in the trip that are important to me. Are they getting to me in a reasonable amount of time or do I have to wait three minutes before they get on the road? Are both the car and driver relatively clean? Do they pick me up in the location I requested or make me walk to them (when it's not necessary)? Are they using their navigation to take the best route? Are they friendly and pleasant to talk to? Are there amenities that go above and beyond what's expected of an UberX? Those are all criteria on which I base my tip. Some rides I've tipped more than 50% of the fare. Some I haven't tipped at all. And I've had one truly bad Uber experience where I made him stop the car and let me out and gave the driver a 1 rating.


You seem like you know the overall reality of the situation. Take advantage of the higher rates that your market is paying right now, put in the hours now with the knowledge that this is not a sustainable situation and you will likely be forced to reevaluate how much you work for Uber in the future when the rate cuts come.

I started driving for Uber about 3 weeks or so before they slashed rates here. I wish I had the foreknowledge back then because I would have driven a hell of a lot more during those first 3 weeks to bank as much as I could.

Eventually you'll come to see what drives what you refer to as whining here. Some of it may actually qualify as whining, but a lot of it is merely venting with the hope that your own experiences will help inform others.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

Brady said:


> It depends on the trip. I tip Uber other drivers now based on certain factors in the trip that are important to me. Are they getting to me in a reasonable amount of time or do I have to wait three minutes before they get on the road? Are both the car and driver relatively clean? Do they pick me up in the location I requested or make me walk to them (when it's not necessary)? Are they using their navigation to take the best route? Are they friendly and pleasant to talk to? Are there amenities that go above and beyond what's expected of an UberX? Those are all criteria on which I base my tip. Some rides I've tipped more than 50% of the fare. Some I haven't tipped at all. And I've had one truly bad Uber experience where I made him stop the car and let me out and gave the driver a 1 rating.


A simple yes if I was provided good service would have been sufficient Brady,


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

NightRider said:


> I started driving for Uber about 3 weeks or so before they slashed rates here. I wish I had the foreknowledge back then because I would have driven a hell of a lot more during those first 3 weeks to bank as much as I could.


There's a downside to the current Grand Rapids market that I haven't mentioned yet. We have higher base rates than Detroit and Chicago, but it's very rare for us to have a surge and when it does happen it's small and very short. I've been reading these Halloween posts of drivers who benefited from surge rates all weekend, even astronomical surge rates as high as 9.8. Grand Rapids didn't surge once this weekend. I've had 422 rides since I've been driving and only 1 of them was on a surge multiplier, and that one was only at 2x. One of the adaptations I've seen drivers mention in the bigger markets is only driving during higher demand times of day that typically surge. So yes, UberX Chicago may have $1.70/$.20/$.90 base rates compared to $2.80/.$20/$1.60 base rates in Grand Rapids but at a 2x surge which is common in Chicago, the driver is making a higher rate than the driver in Grand Rapids who rarely ever sees a surge.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

unter ling said:


> A simple yes if I was provided good service would have been sufficient Brady,


That's why I put the simple answer to your question as the first sentence.


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

Brady said:


> There's a downside to the current Grand Rapids market that I haven't mentioned yet. We have higher base rates than Detroit and Chicago, but it's very rare for us to have a surge and when it does happen it's small and very short. I've been reading these Halloween posts of drivers who benefited from surge rates all weekend, even astronomical surge rates as high as 9.8. Grand Rapids didn't surge once this weekend. I've had 422 rides since I've been driving and only 1 of them was on a surge multiplier, and that one was only at 2x. One of the adaptations I've seen drivers mention in the bigger markets is only driving during higher demand times of day that typically surge. So yes, UberX Chicago may have $1.70/$.20/$.90 base rates compared to $2.80/.$20/$1.60 base rates in Grand Rapids but at a 2x surge which is common in Chicago, the driver is making a higher rate than the driver in Grand Rapids who rarely ever sees a surge.


Keep in mind that the surge also drives away riders... so it's often the case that the higher the surge multiplier, the more you'll sit waiting for a ping. And they've been fiddling with the surge algorithms lately, atleast here in DC, so it's nearly impossible to predict surges and what outcomes they may bring.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

Let me ask those of you who drive in larger cities and older and more established Uber markets: Would you rather have a higher base rate such as the $2.80/.$20/$1.60 base we have in Grand Rapids but no surge multiplier or would you rather have a lower base rate and to allow Uber to surge in your city as it does now? 

This isn't purely hypothetical. The taxi industry in Detroit is pushing for the Detroit City Council to adopt a minimum rate that both taxis and ride sharing services would have to adhere to along with a ban on Uber's surge pricing which the taxi companies argue is price gouging.


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

It is technically price gouging, it just depends if Uber becomes large enough for its services to become considered an essential public good. Taxi prices are regulated since taxi service is as essential as the subway in some places. In LA, Uber basically is the subway after working hours. We could see a restriction on surges.

I’d take a higher predictable rate so I could choose my hours. We don’t choose our hours at all, we drive weekend nights since those are the only reliable surges. Going out and driving surgeless is getting cleaned out for the night.

Ugh, just had another pax claw back 25% of a Halloween fare. For ****’s sake, there were four of you. That’s like twenty dollars a person for a 35 mile ride in torrential rain, heavy traffic. Cheap ubers to go get shitfaced in weho is becoming a human right. Taxpayers should pay us since we keep them from having to build transit.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

troubleinrivercity said:


> I'd take a higher predictable rate so I could choose my hours. We don't choose our hours at all, we drive weekend nights since those are the only reliable surges. Going out and driving surgeless is getting cleaned out for the night..


Something to keep in mind is that the majority of Grand Rapids drivers also only drive on weekend nights. It's not due to surges but instead due to a general lack of ride requests during the days and on weekday nights.

I drive Uber throughout the week because I have an advantage most drivers here don't. I live in a downtown condo where the bulk of ride requests are and I have a day job as a editor that allows me to work from home and also allows me to run out to accept a ride when a request comes in. Unlike other drivers, I don't have to drive to prime areas and wait in my car for ride requests.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Brady said:


> Let me ask those of you who drive in larger cities and older and more established Uber markets: Would you rather have a higher base rate such as the $2.80/.$20/$1.60 base we have in Grand Rapids but no surge multiplier or would you rather have a lower base rate and to allow Uber to surge in your city as it does now?
> 
> This isn't purely hypothetical. The taxi industry in Detroit is pushing for the Detroit City Council to adopt a minimum rate that both taxis and ride sharing services would have to adhere to along with a ban on Uber's surge pricing which the taxi companies argue is price gouging.


I would think that Taxi Companies would benefit from Uber Surge pricing? Walk out of Bar, Rider see Surge, and consider an alternative to Uber like calling/hailing/using Taxi app to get a lower cost Taxi. No need for regulations.

If people are still taking Uber with Surge Rates over Taxis without Surge then either there is still a benefit to taking Uber or the Uber App Surge notification method needs more improvement* or you just can't protect everyone from everything.

* I still think that Uber should allow each Rider to set a threshold they are willing to accept for a Surge Factor or even a per Ride Upper $$ Limit. Like I will only accept a 2x Max Surge and/or a $75 limit per Ride. This could be over-riden on a Per Ride Basis.

So my answer - my preference would be higher rates over sometimes having surges. But Surge Rates do provide a benefit to both Driver & Rider of "On Demand" Services like TNCs.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

Brady said:


> Something to keep in mind is that the majority of Grand Rapids drivers also only drive on weekend nights. It's not due to surges but instead due to a general lack of ride requests during the days and on weekday nights.
> 
> I drive Uber throughout the week because I have an advantage most drivers here don't. I live in a downtown condo where the bulk of ride requests are and I have a day job as a editor that allows me to work from home and also allows me to run out to accept a ride when a request comes in. Unlike other drivers, I don't have to drive to prime areas and wait in my car for ride requests.


I prefer a higher flat rate.

Perhaps if uber encouraged more drivers to be out during the day and the rates were cut there would be more demand. Lower rates = more rides according to uber.


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

Brady said:


> Something to keep in mind is that the majority of Grand Rapids drivers also only drive on weekend nights. It's not due to surges but instead due to a general lack of ride requests during the days and on weekday nights.
> 
> I drive Uber throughout the week because I have an advantage most drivers here don't. I live in a downtown condo where the bulk of ride requests are and I have a day job as a editor that allows me to work from home and also allows me to run out to accept a ride when a request comes in. Unlike other drivers, I don't have to drive to prime areas and wait in my car for ride requests.


I literally cannot ****ing imagine making UberX work outside of Los Angeles. Short rides = no money. No return trip? No money. When the rounds of rate cuts come to GR you'll have trouble justifying this job, even as a means to get out of the house.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

SCdave said:


> I would think that Taxi Companies would benefit from Uber Surge pricing? Walk out of Bar, Rider see Surge, and consider an alternative to Uber like calling/hailing/using Taxi app to get a lower cost Taxi. No need for regulations. If people are still taking Uber with Surge Rates over Taxis without Surge then either there is still a benefit to taking Uber or the Uber App Surge notification method needs more improvement* or you just can't protect everyone from everything.


The main reason people are increasingly choosing Uber over taxis in Grand Rapids isn't due to the price difference, but due to reliability. I can't speak for Detroit, but except for a very few locations, you can't hail a taxi in Grand Rapids. You need to make a telephone call and have it dispatched to you. The dispatchers usually tell the riders "30 minutes" but that can mean anything from 5 minutes to the taxi never showing up. With Uber, the rider can see the driver coming to her and has a much more accurate estimate on how long it will take. That's the benefit to Uber here your post correctly guesses at.

As far as the Uber surge notification goes, I'm not sure how they could improve it any more. Not only is there a disclosure of surge pricing, but the rider is required to type in and confirm the surge multiplier. Other than asking and requiring the rider to answer some puzzle, it's as much of a deterrent to (often drunk) riders claiming ignorance of surge fares as can be expected.


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## Jimmy Lee Hagerty (Nov 2, 2014)

Brady, you can't argue logic to the stupid. Your post's make sense. They respond with a 'gimme' mentality. Uber owes them. The beauty of a capitalist society, which, by the way, made this country great is innovation and personal responsibility. Funny how Uber's business model is adopted successfully Globally. How many folks have jobs now that did not before around the world. I have not heard a lot about what the taxi companies pay in relation to what we earn. Life is hard. No guarantees. Go to school and learn a trade. Move up. You get paid what you are worth to your employer. In this case, you are a sub contracting independent. Move if you have to to an area that has jobs. Stay in the rust belt and starve. But, Brady, these whiners have been taught that they are owed something from the 'govment' or 'big business'. You can't argue with them. They will drop by the wayside and that will be that. nuff said.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Brady said:


> That's a great question because that day is coming shortly. Look up and compare rates in Grand Rapids, MI to rates in Detroit, MI. Detroit has Lyft as well as Uber. Grand Rapids doesn't yet but likely will by Summer 2015. As a Grand Rapids Uber driver, I anticipate making Detroit rates once Lyft arrives. As an independent contractor, I need to develop a personal strategy to deal with that or simply quit driving. I've given this some thought already. I currently drive a Dodge Charger R/T which gets a real world 14.9 mpg based on my driving habits. That's far from an ideal vehicle but even with its poor fuel economy, I'm making decent money driving at current Grand Rapids Uber rates. Gas costs are a big chunk of my operating costs. One of the things I'm going to need to do to survive is to lower those costs. That's likely going to mean selling the fun & flashy Charger and getting a Ford Fusion Hybrid that will cut my gasoline costs in half. I'll also likely end up driving for both Lyft and Uber to increase ride request frequency (In fact, I've already signed up for Lyft), limiting the hours I drive to higher demand times and only accepting ride requests that are closer to me than what I'll drive now to reach one. I'll adapt and make the system work for me. And if I can't, I'll know within a couple of weeks that it's time for me to quit driving. If I quit, I know other drivers will fill the gap. While I won't be an Uber driver anymore, I'll still be an Uber rider (with much lower fares) because it makes more sense than taking a taxi.


Wow! You must have shares in a Gas field!

Really Brady to even think of investing your capital in a UBER promise is courting disaster. But it seems your numbers and perspective is coming from a much different place than most on this forum and that dollars to you dont matter to you.

Whats a Fusion cost in the States Anyway? How many $10 fares will it take to cover that investment? What are your costs getting there?

Good Luck - for your sake I hope you prove us ALL wrong - I have 4 mouths to feed, so I quickly learned after 6 months Uber was a very unsafe bet on future earnings and that translates in all of its fleets. It just isnt a transport company and we need to all believe what UBER keeps repeating that they are a technology company. A Company That doesn't care for its workforce, the longterm 'wellbeing and financial success of its workforce, because its "Technology" is making IT rich. And that is all that counts.


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

troubleinrivercity said:


> I literally cannot ****ing imagine making UberX work outside of Los Angeles. Short rides = no money. No return trip? No money. When the rounds of rate cuts come to GR you'll have trouble justifying this job, even as a means to get out of the house.


Probably very few full time drivers. Here in Cleveland, the last time I got a driver summary (excluding weekends with massive events going on), "top drivers" averaged 32 hours and $21/hour. I was at about 9 hours, $35-45/hour, so assuming they were driving at those times too, they had to be fairly slow for about half their logged hours.

Also, the short trips aren't that bad. On Saturday, I grossed $250 over 17 trips. 6 of those were under 4 miles, and made up about 25% of my earnings, yet only accounted for about 20 of my 160 miles driven. That includes the distance traveled to pick them up. At the $0.13/mile that gas cost me that night, that's like $56 worth of fares for less than $3 of expenses.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

Jimmy Lee Hagerty said:


> Brady, you can't argue logic to the stupid. Your post's make sense. They respond with a 'gimme' mentality. Uber owes them. The beauty of a capitalist society, which, by the way, made this country great is innovation and personal responsibility. Funny how Uber's business model is adopted successfully Globally. How many folks have jobs now that did not before around the world. I have not heard a lot about what the taxi companies pay in relation to what we earn. Life is hard. No guarantees. Go to school and learn a trade. Move up. You get paid what you are worth to your employer. In this case, you are a sub contracting independent. Move if you have to to an area that has jobs. Stay in the rust belt and starve. But, Brady, these whiners have been taught that they are owed something from the 'govment' or 'big business'. You can't argue with them. They will drop by the wayside and that will be that. nuff said.


Another comment of Uber support that, no surprise, comes from someone in an area with $1.95 base / $0.20/min. / $1.75/mile rates. If "logic" is defined by "drivers will do better with fare cuts", then color me stupid.

Does Uber owe its drivers anything? According to you, they apparently owe us nothing. At the very least they need to abide by the agreements with their drivers. But don't they also owe us some truthfulness? Shouldn't they be held accountable for the realism in their help wanted ads? How about some actual data that backs up their claims that drivers do better with rate cuts? Doesn't Uber owe its customers and drivers a computer system that can handle all the drivers that they onboard? Halloween certainly proved that Uber was not up to the task. Uber may be an innovative business, but that doesn't mean it does not have a lot of room for improvement in the way that it executes its business.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

Oc_DriverX said:


> Another comment of Uber support that, no surprise, comes from someone in an area with $1.95 base / $0.20/min. / $1.75/mile rates. If "logic" is defined by "drivers will do better with fare cuts", then color me stupid.
> 
> Does Uber owe its drivers anything? According to you, they apparently owe us nothing. At the very least they need to abide by the agreements with their drivers. But don't they also owe us some truthfulness? Shouldn't they be held accountable for the realism in their help wanted ads? How about some actual data that backs up their claims that drivers do better with rate cuts? Doesn't Uber owe its customers and drivers a computer system that can handle all the drivers that they onboard? Halloween certainly proved that Uber was not up to the task. Uber may be an innovative business, but that doesn't mean it does not have a lot of room for improvement in the way that it executes its business.


Uber has room for improvement and I think we've seen them rapidly evolving as a company as they expand. As for truthfulness, apart from Uber's legal obligations, it doesn't owe drivers anything. Earnings potential, for example, varies greatly across drivers. It's the drivers' responsibility to determine that for themselves. Any driver who is going on what Uber tells them their potential is as a promise is a fool.

Here's the part I don't understand about the people on this forum who are constantly critical of Uber: what's your motivation to be here? The message in the initial post on this thread was "Stop driving for Uber". Does that person really believe that anyone who is considering driving for Uber is going to be deterred by someone who drives for Uber themselves? More likely, they're going to suspect the person is a driver for a competitor or is an Uber driver that simply wants less competition from other Uber drivers. A person who drove for Uber and couldn't make it work for them isn't going to waste their time participating in an Uber forum when they're no longer in the business. Or is it that they believe that by airing their complaints in an Uber forum, they're going to get Uber to change their policies to be more favorable to drivers? That's the 'gimme' mentality, the belief that Uber owes them, that Jimmy mentioned above. People with that mentality shouldn't be operating in any profession as an independent contractor.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

Brady said:


> ...
> A person who drove for Uber and couldn't make it work for them isn't going to waste their time participating in an Uber forum when they're no longer in the business. Or is it that they believe that by airing their complaints in an Uber forum, they're going to get Uber to change their policies to be more favorable to drivers? That's the 'gimme' mentality, the belief that Uber owes them, that Jimmy mentioned above. People with that mentality shouldn't be operating in any profession as an independent contractor.


In fact, there are people who used to drive that do hang out in this forum, although I am sure they don't spend as much time here as they used to.

I don't see why you have such a big problem with people expressing their opinions. Just because someone argues for a more driver favorable policy, that could benefit Uber as well in some cases, does not mean that person has a "gimme" mentality or a belief that Uber "owes them".


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

Oc_DriverX said:


> Just because someone argues for a more driver favorable policy, that could benefit Uber as well in some cases, does not mean that person has a "gimme" mentality or a belief that Uber "owes them".


Sure it does. Uber is going to do what's best for the company and its investors. In some cases, that's also going to benefit drivers but that's not Uber's primary concern. It's the drivers' own responsibility to make Uber work for them or quit driving.

What people never mention about fare cuts is that when Uber cuts fares, it also cuts its own receipts from any one fare. Uber does this to increase the number of rides taken and to secure its market position. Both of those strategies are also in the long term interest for Uber drivers.


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## uberdc/Virginia (Sep 14, 2014)

Brady said:


> It's elementary economics -a very basic supply and demand relationship. If drivers weren't making money driving for Uber, they'd quit. If they were making money but they amount they're making isn't worth their time and hassle, they'd quit. The fact that Uber isn't having a problem finding an adequate number of drivers in most cities shows they have a business model that's working for them and a large enough number of drivers. It's that basic supply and demand logic that some drivers with an entitlement mentality fail to grasp. It's no different than the complaints we've been hearing for years about how Wal Mart treats its employees. Yet Wal Mart has prospered as a company. Go figure.


You raise some good points, But it is not quite that simple. I would say Uber is having a problem finding "high quality" drivers who speak English and know their way around town. Uber is gaining short term at the expense of their long term success. Many first time customers are turning away from Uber after bad experiences caused by lousy drivers. Read some Peter Drucker on Managment. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0061252662/?tag=ubne0c-20

Companies rise and fall. Walmart faces Costco and Target and the Dollar Store and Amazon. Yahoo got preempted by Google. Microsoft might get upended by Apple. Myspace got surpassed by Facebook. There are no guarantees for Uber.

Sears used to be the big retailer. Then Kmart came into that space. Sam Walton used to go into Kmart and study their operations and then Walmart got big. I am sure there are thousands of entrepreneurs looking to dethrone many established companies. Poor customer service by the big companies really helps entrepreneurs who are just starting out.

So if you cut driver pay, the best drivers will leave and many of the best customers will leave as well.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Oc_DriverX said:


> I don't see why you have such a big problem with people expressing their opinions.


Internet know-it-alls are two a penny on forums. There is a certain hypocrisy in their making complaints about people making... complaints.

"You shouldn't be on here complaining; you should be doing this..."

"If you don't like it you should be doing this..."

"Instead of this, do this..."

On an internet forum I will make any comment I please. If YOU don't like it then tough shit!!


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

This Forum is like the proverbial "Water Cooler/Break Room" for those that are employees at a regular 9-5 office job. It's a place to hang out, exchange news, joke, relax, argue, and complain. All okay in my book. I can handle all of it and do it without feeling the the need to use derogatory remarks or think I know more than the other person does. I can make a point and not end it in "dumb ass", "Whiner", " you don't know Sh*t", etc.... But I get the frustration and different ways people communicate just like being with friends or at work.

I strongly believe that Uber has grown exponentially off of the transfer of Risk and vehicle depreciation being off their books. Should more drivers "see" this and understand it,yes. Me, I started early January 2013 and even understanding this, the compensation was good enough driving a 2007 vehicle that had already taken a big depreciation hit and was in good condition. Now, after Uber fares have dropped 40%+ and the $1 SRF I can still make it work part-time but I'm doing other part-time work in place of previously higher driving hours hedging against when I might stop or just drive Surge events/dates.

If Uber had a Tip feature like UberTaxi has, I could see if this would allow me to compensate for the lower Fares. It would allow me to be creative, a good capitalist, provide a better experience for Riders (especially those short distance fares) to earn more as an independent contractor. Give Riders a choice to compensate me for adding to their experience...or not.

I'm also good with trying to organize work stoppages. How effective are/will they be. Don't really know. But if it stops Uber to think for a second, I'm good with that also.

Why stay and invest my time in driving. I still get "enough" and I like being a part of the process. It makes me think how I can be a part of a new economy. I'm also hoping that by being "in" now, I'll be ahead of the curve when a better On Demand opportunity arises. But yes, I'm thinking about an Uber exit.

I'm a big believer in Capitalism, education, growth, and if you don't like the job/contract, move on. But constructive criticism, complaining, arguing, and pointing out how improvements in Uber would benefit Drivers (my classification) is important to me. No where else for me to do this.

I see nothing wrong with complaining. Uber complains about Drivers, Drivers complain about Uber. Taxi drivers complain about both


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

Brady said:


> Sure it does. Uber is going to do what's best for the company and its investors. In some cases, that's also going to benefit drivers but that's not Uber's primary concern. It's the drivers' own responsibility to make Uber work for them or quit driving.
> 
> What people never mention about fare cuts is that when Uber cuts fares, it also cuts its own receipts from any one fare. Uber does this to increase the number of rides taken and to secure its market position. Both of those strategies are also in the long term interest for Uber drivers.


Fare formula is too low. End of ****ing story, Brady. Experienced drivers don't want to pick up passengers, since it's no longer worth the risk. These risks include: sick or unruly passengers; passengers who put you into trouble with the law with open container or 5-pax ride; harassment from airport police, possible impound and fine, fender bender that costs $1000 deductible with James River's insurance; litigation/legal trouble from your own insurance company when they discover you told a big lie to them, for profit; physical injury due to accident; it goes on and on. Professional drivers hate us because we undercut them by gleefully ignoring all of these costs, since most of us don't intend to be around long enough to encounter them.

If you can't conceptualize and put a dollar value on these risks, you are not equipped to be in business for yourself. When your $1.65 or whatever gets cut to $.90, as it will, you'll have exactly the same opinions on Uber as those of us operating at the updated fare formula. Below $1.50/mile, these risks are not paid for and are ours to bear alone. "Updated" is the word here. Uber does not intend to maintain large discrepancies between markets. Grand Rapids is just another bum**** emerging market to them.


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## floridog (Aug 31, 2014)

humandriver said:


> Stop driving for Uber. Without the drivers there is no company(for now). Stop them dead in their tracks.


Wrong. Create your own businesses by telling your Uber riders to call you on your cell phone and use Square to process the payment. That is the only way to beat the Uber slave masters!!!!


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## floridog (Aug 31, 2014)

Oc_DriverX said:


> Unfortunately, I have come to have the belief that a fair numbers of drivers do not know how little that they are making. Some underestimate or even ignore expense that they are incurring. Sometimes it takes while for newer drivers to realize that the bloated and fraudulent numbers that Uber claims in the Craigslist help wanted ads are not reality and will never happen. Uber capitalizes on the ignorance of these newer drivers. There are other drivers who realize that they are sucking the equity out of their cars, but decide that their situation is dire enough, that they still continue to drive despite the poor numbers.
> 
> As for your Walmart analogy I would suggest that even if Walmart prospers, that does not mean that they treat their employees well. It also does not mean that Walmart hasn't structured their hiring practices in such a way that their employees are likely to need more public assistance then similar companies that treat their employees better, like Costco.
> 
> ...


Uber gets drivers because so many are mathematically illiterate. "Oh I made $100 last night". No you didn't. You grossed $100, Uber took 20%, you used $25 in gas, paid $10 in tolls and had depreciation on your vehicle and an insurance cost. Not to mention if you get into an accident, you LOSE everything!!!!

That $100 for four hours of work? You made WAYYYYYY below minimum wage!!


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## pUber_driver (Nov 2, 2014)

Brady said:


> Sure it does. Uber is going to do what's best for the company and its investors. In some cases, that's also going to benefit drivers but that's not Uber's primary concern. It's the drivers' own responsibility to make Uber work for them or quit driving.
> 
> What people never mention about fare cuts is that when Uber cuts fares, it also cuts its own receipts from any one fare. Uber does this to increase the number of rides taken and to secure its market position. Both of those strategies are also in the long term interest for Uber drivers.


Uber can play with volume. Drivers can't. A driver can only do so much work in 1 hour. But uber can increase the amount of work performed in 1 hour by increasing number of drivers, which needs to be supplemented with an increase in demand, hence the rate cuts. At the end of the day uber wants 1 unit of demand to be sufficiently met with 1 unit of supply. In uber's model it's ok to have excess supply, just no excess demand. If there is excess demand there are 2 options to reach equalibrium: 1. Increase price. Or increase supply. Uber prefers to increase supply. more supply and more demand means more transactions which means more safe riders fees to collect


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## pUber_driver (Nov 2, 2014)

floridog said:


> Uber gets drivers because so many are mathematically illiterate. "Oh I made $100 last night". No you didn't. You grossed $100, Uber took 20%, you used $25 in gas, paid $10 in tolls and had depreciation on your vehicle and an insurance cost. Not to mention if you get into an accident, you LOSE everything!!!!
> 
> That $100 for four hours of work? You made WAYYYYYY below minimum wage!!


 Lol yea then you have to Uncle Sam from whatever you got left


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

uberdc/Virginia said:


> You raise some good points, But it is not quite that simple. I would say Uber is having a problem finding "high quality" drivers who speak English and know their way around town. Uber is gaining short term at the expense of their long term success. Many first time customers are turning away from Uber after bad experiences caused by lousy drivers. Read some Peter Drucker on Managment. http://www.amazon.com/Management-Rev-Ed-Peter-Drucker/dp/0061252662/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415035300&sr=8-1&keywords=drucker on management
> 
> Companies rise and fall. Walmart faces Costco and Target and the Dollar Store and Amazon. Yahoo got preempted by Google. Microsoft might get upended by Apple. Myspace got surpassed by Facebook. There are no guarantees for Uber.
> 
> ...


Lyft got a BIG influx of new pax with Uber's Halloween surge stunts. Rides in my area doubled from previous numbers. If Uber's trying to eliminate the competition they just shot themselves in the foot on Halloween night.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

pUber_driver said:


> Uber can play with volume. Drivers can't. A driver can only do so much work in 1 hour. But uber can increase the amount of work performed in 1 hour by increasing number of drivers, which needs to be supplemented with an increase in demand, hence the rate cuts. At the end of the day uber wants 1 unit of demand to be sufficiently met with 1 unit of supply. In uber's model it's ok to have excess supply, just no excess demand. If there is excess demand there are 2 options to reach equalibrium: 1. Increase price. Or increase supply. Uber prefers to increase supply. more supply and more demand means more transactions which means more safe riders fees to collect


There are SOOO many improvements that Uber could make in drivers and pax behalves that would extend their market and the viability of ride share driving I couldn't begin to list them all. But I know the challenges of improving when in growth mode. It's just too intensive for them, apparently, to try to just do a GOOD job across the board.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Brady said:


> Here's the part I don't understand about the people on this forum who are constantly critical of Uber: what's your motivation to be here? The message in the initial post on this thread was "Stop driving for Uber". Does that person really believe that anyone who is considering driving for Uber is going to be deterred by someone who drives for Uber themselves? More likely, they're going to suspect the person is a driver for a competitor or is an Uber driver that simply wants less competition from other Uber drivers. A person who drove for Uber and couldn't make it work for them isn't going to waste their time participating in an Uber forum when they're no longer in the business. Or is it that they believe that by airing their complaints in an Uber forum, they're going to get Uber to change their policies to be more favorable to drivers? That's the 'gimme' mentality, the belief that Uber owes them, that Jimmy mentioned above. People with that mentality shouldn't be operating in any profession as an independent contractor.


Funny how I all I could think of was this forum after watching this which several of my friends posted this on FB this morning. I got rid of the people that ***** that they can't see clouds on a 100% sunny day over there, yet there are a lot of them here.


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

Brady said:


> It's elementary economics -a very basic supply and demand relationship. If drivers weren't making money driving for Uber, they'd quit. If they were making money but they amount they're making isn't worth their time and hassle, they'd quit. The fact that Uber isn't having a problem finding an adequate number of drivers in most cities shows they have a business model that's working for them and a large enough number of drivers. It's that basic supply and demand logic that some drivers with an entitlement mentality fail to grasp. It's no different than the complaints we've been hearing for years about how Wal Mart treats its employees. Yet Wal Mart has prospered as a company. Go figure.


Most respectfully, you're argument is flawed. First, please read the blog below. It perfectly explains why many, many drivers across the country really don't have a choice but to drive for Uber. Second, it disproves the argument that if people didn't like driving for Uber, they'd quit. Yes, that does apply to a certain segment of Uber's "partners," but for many, they simply don't have a choice once they get going.

https://medium.com/@tyspace/uber-is...think-it-is-and-ill-tell-you-why-a9daba13f585

You are right in stating that "if drivers weren't making money at Uber, they'd quit." However, I would bet that a very large percentage of people who drive for Uber simply cannot get a job elsewhere, but for whatever reason, they have an acceptable car, so they send Uber the required paperwork and suddenly find themselves with an income stream. They don't care, understand, or realize that they're really making less than minimum wage after all costs are factored in. They don't understand the economics of figuring taxes, depreciation, wear and tear, extra gas cost, cost of more frequent oil changes and tire rotations, etc. All they care about is that on Thursday, Uber deposits a few hundred dollar in their account and they can now put food on their table or go buy another tank of gas.

Uber doesn't have a problem finding drivers because all they have to do is run a marketing strategy in whatever city they've cycled through drivers who eventually DID get fed up and quit. There will always be a plethora of new, uninformed targets to hook into the "high" of Uber.

WalMart succeeds because it can exploit much the same demographic. Many people who work at WalMart cannot get a job anywhere else. Maybe fast food restaurants, but they have an extremely high turnover of employees.


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

Brady said:


> When that day comes, I'll quit driving for Uber. I don't see how I could break even with rates that low. It certainly wouldn't be worth my time. But I would take Uber as a rider much more frequently. Hell, at those rates, it might be cheaper not to own a car at all and just take Uber all the time -just like many Chicago residents do now.


And I am going to go out on a limb and say that you'll be riding Uber with drivers who don't have the quality of vehicle that, say, you and I have. You'll be riding Uber with old smelly, musty, cab drivers who drive dented and dinged up cab-type vehicles. They won't be driving those souped up Dodge Darts or, in my case, a fully loaded luxury-class Acura. When the fares drop, so does the quality of Uber's "partners."


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

I was all the way with your two posts till you said this


newsboy559 said:


> You'll be riding Uber with old smelly, musty, cab drivers who drive dented and dinged up cab-type vehicles.


This is a 2 month old pic at O'hare Cab Staging lot. The fleet is new and 80% hybrid. I don't see any dinged up cabs in there. That maybe the case in Wichita, Definitely Not the case in Chicago!








Please let go of your slanderous "filthy crooked cabby" stereotype too!


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> I was all the way with your two posts till you said this
> 
> This is a 2 month old pic at O'hare Cab Staging lot. The fleet is new and 80% hybrid. I don't see any dinged up cabs in there. That maybe the case in Wichita, Definitely Not the case in Chicago!
> View attachment 2273
> ...


It's a much different scenario in my city, trust me.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

newsboy559 said:


> Most respectfully, you're argument is flawed. First, please read the blog below. It perfectly explains why many, many drivers across the country really don't have a choice but to drive for Uber. Second, it disproves the argument that if people didn't like driving for Uber, they'd quit. Yes, that does apply to a certain segment of Uber's "partners," but for many, they simply don't have a choice once they get going.
> 
> https://medium.com/@tyspace/uber-is...think-it-is-and-ill-tell-you-why-a9daba13f585
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but this is total bullshit. It's excuse making, it's blaming success for the people that that refuse to work. First lets throw out some facts...

Lets start with Walmart vs Costco, being that's been mentioned. Walmart does about 225k in sales per employee, Costco does something like 775k per employee in sales. They are different business models. Thinking they should pay the same is economic and business ignorance.

Then we have corporations lying. I've been lied to more than you guys could ever know. When my situation came to the surface (and the resulting legal battle started), I had well over 200k in financial obligations, not to mention employees and countless things that made it a a serious deal. With this, if Uber :lies" and tell you you can make more money than you realistically can. Well golleee, I just I might have to quit and that cost me how much.. zero to do! Oh the horror.

Next, as for jobs being short, sure that's true, so start a business. It doesn't have to be this, I can give you one that you don't even need a car to do, just your phone. If costs nothing to do (so it's not one of those "things") and you might make something or you might make a whole lot. But I've had people tell me that are out of work, that they will just collect unemployment as this is not guaranteed to make a lot of money and besides, they "deserve" that unemployment.

Finally, and I've said this before. There are simple rules for life... No one owes you anything. Life is not fair, it's just not built into the system. The more you work at anything, over time you will make more money. You will never make as much as you're worth working for someone else as you will for yourself. Risk=rewards. Those are just a few.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> I was all the way with your two posts till you said this
> 
> This is a 2 month old pic at O'hare Cab Staging lot. The fleet is new and 80% hybrid. I don't see any dinged up cabs in there. That maybe the case in Wichita, Definitely Not the case in Chicago!
> View attachment 2273
> ...


Chi1cabby, wish our local taxis looked as good as yours, but here the cab drivers are not doing themselves any great favours. Took one home from a concert the other week and he chose to drive down a 50kmh street at 90kmh, many are cleaned infrequently maybe once a week and many of the drivers from the subcontinent like to additional charges like road tolls and extras for putting shopping the trunk. The road toll is the interesting one as we dont have any toll roads here. Admitedly they get crap money and they get treated badly also, so perhaps uber x will end up being worse.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> With this, if Uber :lies" and tell you you can make more money than you realistically can. Well golleee, I just I might have to quit and that cost me how much.. zero to do! Oh the horror.


Oh the Horror!

What about the "Uber Partners" who'd bought brand new cars less than a year ago? They've endured 3 Rate Cuts, and are now making minimum wage level earnings. Did it cost them *Zero* too?

Your "Free Markets, Free Markets" posts, that you claim to be based on your life long experience, are frankly Mostly Garbage!

Are you getting paid to write this garbage on a *Drivers Forum*?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

unter ling said:


> Chi1cabby, wish our local taxis looked as good as yours, but here the cab drivers are not doing themselves any great favours.


Either Cab Cos & Cabbies will have to drastically improve their service & practices, or they Will Not survive in the face of Uber's onslaught. Plainly speaking.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Either Cab Cos & Cabbies will have to drastically improve their service & practices, or they Will Not survive in the face of Uber's onslaught. Plainly speaking.


Agreed. In Grand Rapids, MI our problem isn't the quality of the cabs. It's the lack of dependability and poor customer service. The main reason people pick Uber other than a cab is they are almost guaranteed an Uber will be to them in less than 10 minutes and they can see it on their way to them. When you call taxi dispatch here, they'll tell you 30 minutes and that can mean anywhere from 5 minutes to never showing up. Our cab drivers also tend to be far less friendly than Uber drivers and don't have the same knowledge of the city, often because they're rather recent immigrants.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Oh the Horror!
> 
> What about the "Uber Partners" who'd bought brand new cars less than a year ago? They've endured 3 Rate Cuts, and are now making minimum wage level earnings. Did it cost them *Zero* too?
> 
> ...


Hardly. I've said it just before, Uber is not a great company, but it's what was needed in this industry to break it up from where it was. They will either have to evolve to be a great company or will be replaced by ones that are. As for people with those crap leases, sorry, but you have no idea how small that it compared to what is put at risk everyday in the business world. I put down 25k in cash, money I had to walk away from with a franchise once, and that was the small money I lost on that deal. If they are smart they will learn from it and come back stronger, just like I did when I made bad moves.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> If they are smart they will learn from it and come back stronger, just like I did when I made bad moves.


And yet here you are, partaking in the UberX path to untold riches in your middle age!
Sorry @Piotrowski , I personally don't buy what you are selling through your posts. Obviously other members will judge them for themselves.
But thank you for responding to my post for a change. I wish you well, Sir!


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

I said this before too, why I'm doing this is not primarily for the money, although it's always fun to make a few bucks. Right now I have spare time as one thing I was doing came to an end, and I hate sitting around while I'm working on expanding the time I can spend doing other things. Plus, there are other reasons... ones that are a bit more esoteric.  Here's a clue: http://elitedaily.com/life/motivation/quotes-from-billionaire-mark-cuban/727103/


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Brady said:


> Our cab drivers also tend to be far less friendly than Uber drivers and don't have the same knowledge of the city, often because they're rather recent immigrants.


That's laughable, @Brady !
A cabby doesn't have the city knowledge! Yet most UberX drivers rely on GPS just to get around!
Have you checked @Uber_CHI tweeter feed?


















"All UberX driver partners pass a Chicago city knowledge test." That's a blatant lie by Uber_CHI!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

I get pax who complain that UberX drivers use GPS. I tell them that it's a matter of consumer choice. They can choose a professional cab driver with expert city knowledge at $2.80 per mile, or they can choose an economy service such as UberX or Lyft at $1.25 per mile, driven by drivers with less professional knowledge. Most prefer to pay less and adjust their expectations accordingly, but it is entirely their choice.


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