# How Uber broke the California and federal constitution prop 22 is doomed



## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

Q&A: What Overturning Prop 22 Could Mean for the Future of the Gig Economy


Berkeley Law professor Catherine Fisk talks with dot.LA about what the ruling means for the future of Prop 22, ride-share companies, drivers and the gig economy at large.




www.google.com


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

I don't know. Other states are talking about adopting the same legislation. If so it would be difficult for Uber to have Prop 22 repealed.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Lissetti said:


> I don't know. Other states are talking about adopting the same legislation. If so it would be difficult for Uber to have Prop 22 repealed.


But if it's deemed unconstitutional, the other states won't be able to adopt it I'm thinking. I know Uber has talked about putting it in other states but from what I've heard other states are more wanting to adopt Seattle's policy


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

What’s Seattle’s policy ?

is that one the reason I that forced Uber to pay the highest rates in the US in Seattle?


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Please. 'The Constitution' = Money.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

From the article:

_"The real significance of that provision was that if the workers unionized it would enable the companies to sue the worker union for being in violation of federal antitrust law. *There are 50 lawyers in the country who* know enough about antitrust law, and enough about labor law to *understand that that's what was going on*_."

Hark at Little Miss Genius! Only 50 lawyers in the country are smart enough to understand the relationship between labor law and anti-trust law in the context of collectivisation? Well... I took commercial law in university for one semester and I understand it perfectly. That doesn't say a lot for lawyers in this country...


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> What’s Seattle’s policy ?
> 
> is that one the reason I that forced Uber to pay the highest rates in the US in Seattle?


It looks like they have a gross minimum wage of $30 and some cents, Minimum $5 cancellation no-show fee paid to the driver, and paid sick time during Coronavirus. Overall basically they said the minimum hourly without any of the nonsense in proposition 22.

Maybe @Lissetti can offer more specific details









Uber will charge significantly more per trip as new Seattle law goes into effect Jan. 1


The increase comes as Seattle's new minimum wage law for ride-hailing drivers takes effect. The new wage requirements, approved by the City Council, are meant to keep pay for Uber and Lyft drivers on par with other workers in the...




www.seattletimes.com


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> What’s Seattle’s policy ?
> 
> is that one the reason I that forced Uber to pay the highest rates in the US in Seattle?






Daisey77 said:


> It looks like they have a gross minimum wage of $30 and some cents, Minimum $5 cancellation no-show fee paid to the driver, and paid sick time during Coronavirus. Overall basically they said the minimum hourly without any of the nonsense in proposition 22.
> 
> Maybe @Lissetti can offer more specific details
> 
> ...


Well I haven't driven for some time but the minimum wage for all workers in Seattle is $16.69 an hour. I remember when the law was proposed and it was created to help all self employed workers, from hairdressers to rideshare. Still, I'm not optimistic if that $30 gross/$16.69 and hour will boost rideshare driver's incomes in Washington state. My bet is drivers will get less requests and see less surge as both Uber and Lyft "ration" the fares being sent to the drivers to avoid having to pay more costs. 

It's probably going to be something like that. Otherwise I can imagine every driver might come out of retirement for that guaranteed payment which would send U/L into crisis mode. In Seattle many drivers left the platform once the average of $20+ an hour became almost unobtainable due to oversaturation (unless you worked higher tiers.) Now I imagine it won't be much different. The way I'm reading this, and I could be reading it wrong, but drivers only get this $30 gross/$16.69 while under a fare. So sitting around waiting on a ping or having to deadhead will pay little if any.


_Under the new rules, drivers will earn a gross hourly pay of about $30.30 per hour, before expenses. The legislation will set new per-mile and per-minute rates for drivers while they’re carrying passengers, which are meant to be high enough to compensate for job-related expenses, time spent waiting for rides and time driving to pick up passengers._


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

I've said it before and I'll say it again.... we need a hybrid set of rules for Gig workers.

An hourly wage, minimum or otherwise, is not the solution.

Collective bargaining, a legislated % of the fare going to Uber, and a set of legislated guidelines for what constitutes driver exploitation would be less than perfect solutions, but better than the existing proposals.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Well... I took commercial law in university for one semester and I understand it perfectly. That doesn't say a lot for lawyers in this country...


TRON: "That's pre-law. I thought you were in pre-med"
GOF (dismissively): "Same thing".

/Animal House


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## memberberry (Nov 8, 2021)

_Tron_ said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again.... we need a hybrid set of rules for Gig workers.
> 
> An hourly wage, minimum or otherwise, is not the solution.
> 
> Collective bargaining, a legislated % of the fare going to Uber, and a set of legislated guidelines for what constitutes driver exploitation would be less than perfect solutions, but better than the existing proposals.


rules? No new "rules" are needed there are already laws on the books. These apps just need to follow them and states need to enforce them.

Taxicabs are'nt new they've been regulated for almost a century now. It would take 5 minutes for states PUCs to say......

hey Uber hey Lyft this is the minimum amount you can pay drivers per mile, per minute, per ride. You can charge whatever you want, play whatever games you want but after whatever amount you feel like taking from customers payment you must pay labor these minimum amounts.

Took 5 seconds and all drivers/riders problems are solved as everyone who can actually afford a taxicab will be picked up while those who don't and only use the service because of the predatory pricing goes back to the bus or bumming rides from friends.

They came up with those amounts after almost 100 years of knowing what it costs to insure labor gets a legal wage and can still maintain a vehicle for commercial use so it's safe.

in 2004 those rates were $2 per mile .10 per minute. This is easily verifiable & that was almost 2 decades ago. For some reason no one is interested the .60 a mile .09 per minute Uber & Lyft get away paying is from the 1960s after costs.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

Uber's business model simply doesn't work. To have a car available for every rider five minutes away at a reasonable cost is not feasible. Uber's argument that it would be cheaper for the consumer to ditch car ownership because Rideshare is a cheaper alternative doesn't bode well for the average Uber driver.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Paul Vincent said:


> Uber's business model simply doesn't work. To have a car available for every rider five minutes away at a reasonable cost is not feasible. Uber's argument that it would be cheaper for the consumer to ditch car ownership because Rideshare is a cheaper alternative doesn't bode well for the average Uber driver.


That entire theory was fundamentally flawed anyway, baring areas with EXTREME parking costs, IE not most of America.

First of all not 100% of miles are paid, that means that for every mile you go in a car there's X miles that are driven that arn't driving you, this multiples their cost per mile up higher than driving yourself.

That increased cost HAS to be covered by the customer.

Third, the employee cost.

Driver's cost money.

4th, the middle man cost. Uber the company adds costs.



What I see is 4 cost increasing factors and zero cost saving factors.

the "swing" would be any area that has high parking costs. it would have to be hundreds a month in parking. I'm not saying there ARN"T areas with 100s a month in parking costs, there certainly are. But those are areas that already have a strong enough market to justify large for-hire fleets to begin with.


I don't see how they can really make it "cheaper than owning your own car"
_in most parts of the country_


Sure, there might be some situations where it's cheaper. 2 taxi rides from the airport to disney world VS renting a car for 2 weeks. Another example is a round trip to the airport versus 2 weeks of airport parking.


But replacing the daily usage of cars just isn't going to happen, the math isn't there and it never was.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

I don’t get guaranteed hourly wage. You need 80/20 split with 90/10 over 40 miles. With total transparency of what the rider payed for the ride and minimum of 7 dollars per ride that’s it


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