# I advocate that Uber drivers ought to consider themselves as an independent business entity focused on the bottom line in every aspect of driving.



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Only thing I mindful of is positive cash flow and a tax net loss (or as close as I can get). Everything else is just way too much work. Just saying.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Being hired on with Uber may require less intelligence than needed to pass a normal job interview. Unfortunately, you actually have to have greater intelligence to succeed as an Uber driver than you would at most normal jobs. At most normal jobs, all you have to do is show up and you'll be ahead of where you started. Not so with Uber. It is apparently beyond the reasoning ability of many drivers to make choices that will result in long-term profitability.

I know a guy that is a casino manager. He has related to me stories where an employee is told he gets X number of hours of PTO per week... and these employees cannot do the basic math and come and ask him how many weeks it will take before they get enough hours to take a PTO day off. These same types of people sign up for Uber and they never do the math. Disaster. Unfortunately, even when you do everything right, Uber pays so little that few people who can do basic arithmetic will do this work. There is no wonder why so many people fail when it should be so easy to succeed.


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

Do you really expect people to read all that jibber-jabba?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Synapse is an entire post is....


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> Being hired on with Uber may require less intelligence than needed to pass a normal job interview. Unfortunately, you actually have to have greater intelligence to succeed as an Uber driver than you would at most normal jobs. At most normal jobs, all you have to do is show up and you'll be ahead of where you started. Not so with Uber. It is apparently beyond the reasoning ability of many drivers to make choices that will result in long-term profitability.
> 
> I know a guy that is a casino manager. He has related to me stories where an employee is told he gets X number of hours of PTO per week... and these employees cannot do the basic math and come and ask him how many weeks it will take before they get enough hours to take a PTO day off. These same types of people sign up for Uber and they never do the math. Disaster. Unfortunately, even when you do everything right, Uber pays so little that few people who can do basic arithmetic will do this work. There is no wonder why so many people fail when it should be so easy to succeed.


Indeed Trafficat, I do agree. Your response is profound. Some people underestimate the necessary intellectual ability to make driving for Uber profitable. I have asked many passengers who were former Uber drivers why they stopped. Many told me their driving habits, and it surely surprised me. One guy said he would wake up at 9:00 am and drive for 2 hours, then drive all the way home to the suburbs and take a lunch, then log back on and drive til around 5 pm...and stop for the day. He took weekends off.

I thought to myself that if he starts so late at 9:00 am, everyone downtown is already at work, so there will be fewer requests. And if he stops working at 5 pm, then he will miss the surge of riders going home after they finish their office jobs. Furthermore, if he doesn't work weekends, then he will miss the bulk of potential weekly earnings.



NOXDriver said:


> Do you really expect people to read all that jibber-jabba?


Lol, thanks for replying to my post. If you think my post is too long, then feel free to not read it. I'm only trying to help mostly new drivers. Please have a great day!! :smiles:


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## IthurstwhenIP (Jan 12, 2018)

G sounds like a good dude who lives...really lives his life. Life’s too short not to be a G


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I agree it’s a business but I think you are going way too far, especially since it’s a just a part time thing for you. And I think you have a problem like my wife, She gets upset when she gives advice and the person, (usually me) doesn’t follow her advice to a tee. 

I bet your friend heard you but decided to do it differently. As long as he is happy, let it go. At least that’s what I would do. You did your best and you can reserve the right to say “I told you so” but for now, I’d let it go

I can’t speak for your friend, but I do Uber so I can continue to enjoy the lifestyle I enjoyed before retirement and so I don’t have to eat peanut butter and jelly or drive a little car


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Young Kim said:


> I thought to myself that if he starts so late at 9:00 am, everyone downtown is already at work, so there will be fewer requests


my uber shift is around 10am-1pm; there are plenty of pings and I only drive in the suburbs. You have a crap ton airport pings for PM flights and others who have variable work shifts. Kinda an assumption there isn't any or many pings during this time.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

SHalester said:


> my uber shift is around 10am-1pm; there are plenty of pings and I only drive in the suburbs. You have a crap ton airport pings for PM flights and others who have variable work shifts. Kinda an assumption there isn't any or many pings during this time.


Interesting. Where I live in the north suburbs in Chicago, I spoke to other Uber drivers who reported it was pretty slow in the suburbs. But I don't know where you live and work.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Young Kim said:


> I spoke to other Uber drivers who reported it was pretty slow in the suburbs


you spoke with drivers and accepted it as factual? Mistake number 1. Yeah, no doubt each market is a little different. You find out by doing. 
Some of us PT avoid nights, weekends and 'events'. And specially rush hours. People in the 'burbs' need rides too, you know.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

IthurstwhenIP said:


> G sounds like a good dude who lives...really lives his life. Life's too short not to be a G


Perhaps you are right, to each his own... I just thought of something unrelated regarding my post which mainly focused on suggestions for newer Uber drivers. I recommend NOT offering an aux cord to passengers if asked. Especially to very drunk people. They will demand that you play their music as loud as your car volume can reach, and you will be very annoyed by the end of the trip.



SHalester said:


> you spoke with drivers and accepted it as factual? Mistake number 1. Yeah, no doubt each market is a little different. You find out by doing.
> Some of us PT avoid nights, weekends and 'events'. And specially rush hours. People in the 'burbs' need rides too, you know.


Ok, agreed. I can't necessarily trust anecdotal reports. I humbly retract. Perhaps, especially in your area, suburban rides are plentiful. I have not tried myself so I cannot speak about it.


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## Uberguyken (May 10, 2020)

I tend to agree that in my market if you only worked from 9-11 and 1-5 and No weekends...you would miss out on most of the busy times where it's possible to maximize your profits... Some driver like @SHalester do this gig on a very PT basis and work hard to be sure his write off exceeds his income. And I respect that even though I do it differently and try to ride the surge train and hit the Busy times where I can make 2-3 as much. That's the great thing about Uber it's solely up to you how you do it... While I see your points some drivers truly don't care and will always do it their way.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> Being hired on with Uber may require less intelligence than needed to pass a normal job interview. Unfortunately, you actually have to have greater intelligence to succeed as an Uber driver than you would at most normal jobs.


Ladies and gentlemen.......we have a winnah !!!!

Or, to put it another way using their own stats, only 4% of Uber driver's who get hired meet that classification after one year..


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## May H. (Mar 20, 2018)

Young Kim said:


> Dear friends, Happy Memorial Day to all! As I finished my shift last night, I reflected on a conversation I had with a fellow driver "G" who I think approaches driving for Uber in a very inefficient way. Please let me explain, and suggest how it may help any other (particularly new) rideshare drivers reflect on their own working patterns. I aver that an Uber driver _must_ consider his/her driving work to be first and foremost an _independent business_, rather than someone who lackadaisically drives for money.
> 
> For example, when "G" and I started driving a few years back (we started about the same time), he bought a new car, a 2015 Ford Taurus. It was a nice car with a lot of features, but one that had a mpg that I felt was rather lacking. I purchased a used red 2015 Toyota Prius (I knew my choice to be thrifty would directly impact my future earnings as I had less capital to depreciate). He paid a lot, while I paid a very reasonable used car price. I was very careful about the purchase and had it checked out _thoroughly_ by my trusted mechanic prior to paying, who vouched for its impeccable quality.
> 
> ...


Fail. Prius brake pads last much longer than conventional vehicles. This point in your argument about cost of maintenance Is moot.


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## TCar (Aug 4, 2019)

I appreciate your post. 
I was having trouble last year with too much time on my hands.
talking with my brother, he said "you gotta find something else to do to occupy your time.
OK, I say, like what? Knitting or crochet?

I come up with a brilliant idea!
I was (and am still) working full time for decent money, but time off was negative. 
I needed a new car, as my last one had been taken by the man.

I thought, buy a car and drive for uber. (genius right?)
Did research from May - July. 
Watch YouTube videos to edumacate myself. 
Looked into the FINANCIAL aspects of driving.

About a year before, I had downloaded a virtual checkbook ledger (Simple Checkbook Ledger, awsome!)
Had personal account, bill account, saving account and would move money between them, although only one balance from check acct.

So in July, decide to get car (chose a Toyota Corolla, 32K miles about 15k) avg now = 33 mpg. (Love it!)
Started driving u/l before and after work and days off , about 25 hours.
Began making money.

With my checkbook ledger app, Created a main account (all money deposited into same checking account as personal.
Main account "Driveshare" all money starts here.
Created 4 sub accounts. 
*"DS Maintenance"
*"DS Taxes"
*"DS Vacation"
*"DS DNT"
*"DS Principal"

Beautiful , I sad to myself. 
Keep in mind, money was a secondary reason for driving u/l. Time was main concern, although i needed to pay for car.

So far, awesome. (Now only doing uber eats, better than u/l, for sure)

So since day one, I cash out app on Wednesday and Sunday nights.
From the getgo, 
%20 to DS Maintenance.
%5 to Taxes, Vacation, DNT and Principal. (each)
That is %45 of total. Make 100, I am now left with $55. 
Gas (initially had been projected at %25, but is more like %12 overall, specially with current prices, 
but lets say %15 (including all travel, all personal travel as well.)
Now I am netting <> %42 on all income.
That pays for car and insurance. 
Oil changes about every 5 weeks, come out of DS Maintenance, with lots saved for future (Tires, any other fu which may occur)

Now my time problem is solved and I got a free car.
So far, lovin it!

Thanks for your intelligent post.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Uberguyken said:


> and try to ride the surge train and hit the Busy times


yeah, I avoid those. too much work. I did that already in CAREER. This ain't a career anybody aims for. They might fall into it, for this or that reason, but it ain't a career. Careers you WORK at. I retired from work, paid my dues. RS for me isn't work. One could only have 2 brain cells that rarely spark and they would be able to do RS. -o:


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

young kim. you write nice storys. but alot you say to me is bullshit. what do you earn a week , and what do you really keep per week...
i have done 6 years 2 years black suv mpg 14. pay $3500 a week . nissan car. with xl suv . dodge van 3 years 15 mpg city $2k a week gross, before virus . over 20,000 rides.
whats some of your #'s to make us have more creditability


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## Subaru_X (Apr 27, 2015)

Young Kim said:


> Dear friends, Happy Memorial Day to all! As I finished my shift last night, I reflected on a conversation I had with a fellow driver "G" who I think approaches driving for Uber in a very inefficient way. Please let me explain, and suggest how it may help any other (particularly new) rideshare drivers reflect on their own working patterns. I aver that an Uber driver _must_ consider his/her driving work to be first and foremost an _independent business_, rather than someone who lackadaisically drives for money.
> 
> For example, when "G" and I started driving a few years back (we started about the same time), he bought a new car, a 2015 Ford Taurus. It was a nice car with a lot of features, but one that had a mpg that I felt was rather lacking. I purchased a used red 2015 Toyota Prius (I knew my choice to be thrifty would directly impact my future earnings as I had less capital to depreciate). He paid a lot, while I paid a very reasonable used car price. I was very careful about the purchase and had it checked out _thoroughly_ by my trusted mechanic prior to paying, who vouched for its impeccable quality.
> 
> ...


G'day from Australia.

I appreciate the effort you put into your post. The basic premise that Uber drivers are in effect an ongoing business is valid. People should remember this rather than try to imagine themselves as mistreated employees.

I have some major criticisms - mostly about what I consider your flawed & incomplete perspective. You failed to consider that everyone's circumstances are different, and a lot of what you wrote is a bit too self-congratulatory for my liking. In addition, I feel sorry for your friend "G". Seems to me you didn't put much effort into the useful advice you gave, then came to gloat when he was as you say in "grief and despair". Looks to me like G needs better friends!

So firstly, your background story of how you & G bought cars - yeah good comparison, but what about those drivers who already had a car before driving Uber? Let's say someone has a Subaru Legacy (like me) and then starts driving Uber. There is no valid business case to sell the Legacy and eat all the depreciation loss, in order to replace it with a more efficient car. You can spin the numbers any way you want and it won't work. _The most efficient car for Uber is the one you already own._

As the driver of a fuel-guzzling car, I have found that my own time & space methods and strategies count for much more than any fuel efficiency. Simple example: The Prius driver who works 40 hours from 9-5 on weekdays, will earn only half as much as I do working the same number of hours, spread over peak times.

Drive-thru vs packed lunch: This is not a business choice, it's a personal lifestyle choice. G likes his Philly cheese steak, you like your brussel sprouts. Why you spent 2 long paragraphs on this topic is a mystery to me.

Maintenance: of course it's a no-brainer that cars should be maintained. The story of G's tyre blowing out has little to do with maintenance as this could happen to anyone even with new tyres. The other story of the O2 sensor -* I call a big fat BS on this* because any new car is under warranty. Please don't try to explain that O2 sensors aren't covered under warranty in the US!

New vs used vs big vs small vs whatever car: With a quick google search I found that in the USA, you enjoy a very generous US$0.58 per mile tax deduction, with apparently no limit on miles. This simple fact means that any full time Uber driver in the US with caveman-level accounting skills will not pay any tax. Part time drivers will also work at a tax net loss and might be able to get a big tax return from their primary income. You also have the option to switch to the actual costs method if that suits your case better. All this heavily offsets your bug bears depreciation, loan repayments etc.

Overall, while your premise of running a business is sound, the rest of what you wrote shows that your understanding of business accounting is very limited. Also:


Young Kim said:


> This is a part time gig for me, so I also spend time while driving passengers listening with my bluetooth to podcasts which give me education on my other gigs (like teaching physics, working shifts at my day job, trading financial securities, and so on).


Oh Dear God... I pity your poor riders whom you torment with your podcasts. Also, gotta love your throwaway "this is a part time gig for me" comment, gotta tell the lowly plebs that this job doesn't really matter to you, for you are destined for great things... Let's not forget that you bought a car specifically to do this, Mr future physicist/financial securities trader - -o:

The best and most concise response to everything you wrote was this one:



SHalester said:


> Only thing I mindful of is positive cash flow and a tax net loss (or as close as I can get). Everything else is just way too much work. Just saying.


Yes,yes, and yes. Monetise your time, monetise the cost of ownership of your vehicle, deduct everything and pay no tax. Gaze on your bank balance and enjoy driving a real car, one that doesn't resemble a door stop.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Young Kim said:


> (e.g. I buy my peanut butter, jelly and bread from a dollar store).


Happy M day to you too. But now that you have dispensed all that good advice to your friend, it is time for you to soak up some advice yourself. Young Kim, it's ok to buy you clothes at Ross or Walmart. It's ok to get your hair cut at Supercuts. It's ok to get your baggies, plastic containers, aluminum foil and damn near everything else they stock at the dollar store.

Except food. Dollar Store peanutbutter & jelly sandwiches? Hold the phone Young Kim. You should apply the same smart Uber driving principles you have engineered directly to the food you eat. In other words, _it's not just about filling your stomach today_! You're in it for the long haul. Would you put crap gas in your Ubercar? Certainly not. Why put crap food in your biological machine?

Young Kim, it's time to start treating your _body_ like a business. Treat it with the care you treat your ridesharing gig. Because unlike your Ubercar, you can't trade in your body when it's all worn out and blowing smoke out the tailpipe (well actually you can trade in your body for a new one when you die and are reborn, but that's a little too metaphysical for these pages).

Young Kim, think about this advice. We want you to be around when you are Old Kim and writing these dense, long-winded dissertations (I had to break for dinner before finishing this one). But we like your posts. Very positive and high-minded. And what forum can't benefit from those attributes?

Live long and prosper Young Kim.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Free masks. And gloves Kim gives to airport rides .
In his Prius GTFO


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

IthurstwhenIP said:


> G sounds like a good dude who lives...really lives his life. Life's too short not to be a G


I wanna be a G.
So far, I have made my certification for OG, and sport the ring occasionally.

But, I strive to be a G.



_Tron_ said:


> Live long and prosper Young Kim.


He reminds me of SadUber.
I dunno why ... maybe it's the frequent WTF's I think when I read the first sentence of his posts - and the last.

Then pass the bong over to MrsUB.


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## fraqtl (Aug 27, 2016)

Young Kim said:


> Dear friends, Happy Memorial Day to all! As I finished my shift last night, I reflected on a conversation I had with a fellow driver "G" who I think approaches driving for Uber in a very inefficient way. Please let me explain, and suggest how it may help any other (particularly new) rideshare drivers reflect on their own working patterns. I aver that an Uber driver _must_ consider his/her driving work to be first and foremost an _independent business_, rather than someone who lackadaisically drives for money.
> 
> For example, when "G" and I started driving a few years back (we started about the same time), he bought a new car, a 2015 Ford Taurus. It was a nice car with a lot of features, but one that had a mpg that I felt was rather lacking. I purchased a used red 2015 Toyota Prius (I knew my choice to be thrifty would directly impact my future earnings as I had less capital to depreciate). He paid a lot, while I paid a very reasonable used car price. I was very careful about the purchase and had it checked out _thoroughly_ by my trusted mechanic prior to paying, who vouched for its impeccable quality.
> 
> ...


I am curious if you have any thoughts about whether water is wet or not?

I learned all of this when I got my MBA from Well Duh! University



Subaru_X said:


> I found that in the USA, you enjoy a very generous US$0.58 per mile tax deduction, with apparently no limit on miles


I would kill for this. Maybe not a human. I might kill a cat for this. We only get 5000km at a per km deduction before we have to start going with logbooks.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

May H. said:


> Fail. Prius brake pads last much longer than conventional vehicles. This point in your argument about cost of maintenance Is moot.


You are correct about Prius brake pads. I should have put that in there. I will share though that the recommendation to brake softly on ANY car is NOT a fail (when it comes to conserving your brake pads). I have owned many cars before this, and I never really paid attention to my braking especially when I got my first car at age 16. When I did a soft analysis on my own previous cars, I noted that I changed my brake pad LESS OFTEN when I started braking very gently especially while driving in the city and decelerating from high speeds onto an expressway ramp. I began braking very gently around age 22 when I owned a Honda Accord. After starting to brake softer, I noted a MAJOR difference in the times in between when I had to pay to change my brake pads.

The same is true about accelerating... When I was 16, I remember I drove very erratically and aggressively (my first car was a Honda Civic). I would hit the accelerate hard, and drove in a manner that was in my opinion hard on the engine. Plus I would speed a lot. When I drove more gently, I noted that my overall maintenance went down.

Look, you don't have to take any of my suggestions. But if you think about what I was suggesting, they have a basis in scientific empirical facts... The following is one of those sites that support my claims : https://www.ridetime.ca/blog/the-top-6-ways-to-extend-the-life-of-your-brake-pads/

(Once again I agree with you that Toyota Prius brake pads last longer than other cars, but I am comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges. If I started driving my Prius like I did when I was 16 and braking hard all the time, I know I would have to change my brakes more often)



bobby747 said:


> young kim. you write nice storys. but alot you say to me is bullshit. what do you earn a week , and what do you really keep per week...
> i have done 6 years 2 years black suv mpg 14. pay $3500 a week . nissan car. with xl suv . dodge van 3 years 15 mpg city $2k a week gross, before virus . over 20,000 rides.
> whats some of your #'s to make us have more creditability


LOL! :smiles: Sorry if you think my writing is bull%$#* . I don't make even a fraction as much money as you do!! WOW! I am almost embarrassed to tell you my numbers. I could not touch those awesome numbers with a ten foot pole. (but I work part time so the numbers are all over the place. Last week, I only made a couple of hundred dollars > $182, but I work part time and only did 2 shifts).

I am surprised that Uber Select and UberBlack pays out so much on a consistent basis. Especially $3500 a week on your black suv! That is _$182,000 a YEAR _that you were making (before expenses ($3500 x 52 weeks a year))!!! I BELIEVE you and will research this myself.

What you are reporting to me is really the VERY HIGHEST figure I have EVER read on these message boards and other sites. Perhaps I should be taking advice from you. I don't say this sarcastically, I had NO idea a person can clear nearly $200,000 per year consistently doing UberBlack.

Maybe there IS an incredible amount of money driving UberBlack (I am guessing that because you drove a black suv mpg 14). I'll ask around my connections here in Chicago and see if it can be repeated in Chicago. I of course knew about UberBlack, but when I asked the guys around O'Hare about UberBlack when I was in the waiting area, and I asked what they made, it wasn't close to what you were averaging ($182,000 a year gross)!!! Congrats bro! Have a great day!



bobby747 said:


> Free masks. And gloves Kim gives to airport rides .
> In his Prius GTFO


Dear bobby747, I said in another post that I gave out the masks and gloves to ONLY the very few airport runs that I did over the past two weeks. I reported that I gave out just 4 masks I think at .50 cents per mask and the gloves cost pennies. It was not a decision based on profitability but rather kindness during this pandemic to alleviate anxiety. I don't do this to ALL passengers and certainly when the lockdown ends and if airport rides become common, I won't be giving out any masks and gloves.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Young Kim said:


> *my other gigs (like teaching physics, working shifts at my day job, trading financial securities, and so on).
> 
> Make your driving Uber a time where you are constantly thinking of profits as a business operation.
> 
> In conclusion, please do reflect and consider yourself as an ongoing business which needs to constantly operate efficiently and think of ways to maximize net profits. Because at the end of the day, that is what you are, a "company" trying to earn a profit. Uber doesn't care if you make money or not, they have an endless supply of new drivers to hit the road. Particularly during this pandemic and definitely after the lockdowns start to lift, I speculate it will be more important than ever to be mindful of your net income, and not just the numbers that you see on your Uber app. When I pointed all this to my friend "G" in a long conversation, there was a long silence at the end... then an unfortunate admission of abject grief and despair. Please be mindful, and May God Bless all of our current military and veterans today (and also all of us)!! &#128525;*


*Hilarious!! :smiles:*


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

no 4 years was $3500 week black suv,,,today , without virus. $2000 every week. but i am a different platform than x. many do without the virus. $1500 a week gross with x 
you are in a better market.
my point , you give all this so called great advice. without full earnings power..talking about a prius..(great car) .my leased van dodge . was just turned in 3 years miles 75k org. brakes.
i may say over 2k a week but expenses are alot higher
3.5 k a week was the best times. and $900 a week expenses..
this is one of your area guys. whose normal earning were ok . but as i told him 7days a week to earn that number was dangerous..he things his pay is good doing 150 uber and lyfts a week...watch his videos before virus

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=uber+chi+guy+


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## fraqtl (Aug 27, 2016)

Young Kim said:


> Last week, I only made a couple of hundred dollars > $182, but I work part time and only did 2 shifts).


Snarkiness aside, it seems like you only consider one aspect of the equation, that if expenses.

Depending on how long your shift is, $90 a shift is very poor. Obviously if you worked 2 hours then it's fine but I suspect it was longer.

It's all well and good to keep expenses down, it's essential to do so but if you aren't looking to make the most of your time and maximise your gross income then you still aren't going to be making very much.

You need to make yourself available for more jobs, develop a circuit you drive by default when not busy, stopping for 10 mins here and there before moving on to other areas. Yes, this involves dead kilometres (or miles) but in a Prius the cost of those extra miles is relatively small where the potential upside is larger. You need to balance the two against each other and be aware of the opportunity cost of whatever you do.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

bobby747 said:


> no 4 years was $3500 week black suv,,,today , without virus. $2000 every week. but i am a different platform than x. many do without the virus. $1500 a week gross with x
> you are in a better market.
> my point , you give all this so called great advice. without full earnings power..talking about a prius..(great car) .my leased van dodge . was just turned in 3 years miles 75k org. brakes.
> i may say over 2k a week but expenses are alot higher
> ...


Well, maybe my advice was terrible. Please ignore it then. I don't always have good ideas. Perhaps I was too focused and emphasizing thrift because UberX rides don't pay a lot in Chicago now and the tips are not very generous for rides (on passenger rides they don't tip as much as UberEats customers for me). Thank you for bringing up a new way of thinking for me. I actually tried to remove my entire original post, but the message came up that it passed the window of time to remove it. Maybe UberBlack is the way to go... and not think of conserving gas, brake pads, cost of food, etc.

Therefore, I think maybe I should consider driving for UberBlack. Since I posted to you earlier a couple of hours ago, I reached out to a few contacts here in Chicago, and they said that what you were making before the virus on UberBlack was accurate. One guy who said he knows a friend who works long hours AND is linked with a limo service on top of UberBlack said _he grossed over $220,000 per year, every year for the past five years!_ Perhaps my thinking was too confined and limited because I am on the X platform. I also watched a couple of YouTube videos in the last hour and found a few individual blogposts that CONFIRMED what you reported. That UberBlack drivers make north of $200,000 per year gross (pre virus). As you mentioned, the virus may depress earnings, but as I was reading on other sites, it is more worth it because you "hustle" and "work" less when you consider how many more rides you must make on UberX on a relative basis.



fraqtl said:


> Snarkiness aside, it seems like you only consider one aspect of the equation, that if expenses.
> 
> Depending on how long your shift is, $90 a shift is very poor. Obviously if you worked 2 hours then it's fine but I suspect it was longer.
> 
> ...


I don't remember how long each shift was, but yes it was a lot more than 2 hours... but as bobby747 corrected me, maybe I am driving for the wrong platform. It seems UberBlack is FAR SUPERIOR.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

This guy gives me vibes that he’s one of the few Uber customer service employees that didn’t get laid off (yet) and is competing to keep his job.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

UberChiefPIT said:


> This guy gives me vibes that he's one of the few Uber customer service employees that didn't get laid off (yet) and is competing to keep his job.


LOL, your reply was funny. I admit I may have focused too much on net profits, and not GROSS earnings on other platforms like UberBlack.. Like one of the above posters said, maybe UberX is not be best platform. So UberSelect and UberBlack could be the way to be more profitable.






In the above video, the UberBlack driver was showing his morning and showed screenshots about how often makes $50-$60 NET per hour. In the video, he showed one ride to the airport where with a $18 tip and thus he netted nearly $100 for the 25 minute ride. I realize the driver is in NY, but that is eye opening. When I take a 25 minute ride to the airport in Chicago, I often net just $17 or $19 for the ride. I think others in Chicago can confirm this.

Perhaps as bobby747 reported, UberBlack or UberSelect is the way to go. I don't know. (There could be future impacts due to the virus). Also, I cannot recommend anything with certainty because I've never driven on the the other platforms.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

i am not pushing black car..thats dead somewhat also.....too much expense. make your $300 for 2 nights and be happy. 
we net .74 cents a mile here . you are not much higher...but those airports you and i had for $17-$19 here. i wont take them....pays to small. only if i rebound in an xl mode....if i see at 4am 15 min ride ..its phl at $17 and no rebounds.. so $8 each way...no way..i use my van in a different platform here


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Young Kim said:


> In the above video, the UberBlack driver was showing his morning andIn the video, he showed one ride to the airport where with a $18 tip and thus he netted nearly $100 for the 25 minute ride.


Aha, and waiting few more hours for another trip or doing regular x like guys on priuses.


----------



## Another Ant (Jun 3, 2019)

I was going to read it, but then I remembered the OP's previous post titled, "_*For those who are already receiving unemployment benefits, and to those who likely will be approved, I truly urge you all to use the time productively."*_

Since I am receiving unemployment benefits, I don't think reading this new dissertation is a productive use of my time.


----------



## goobered (Feb 2, 2020)

Way to virtue signal with that Prius! Okay just kidding (maybe) but I totally agree with running it like a real business and considering the bottom line at all times. Point being that everyone's bottom line will be different depending on your circumstances, needs, life situation and market.

I drive a V6. I used to drive cars with better gas mileage, but they killed my back. Bad seats, bumpy ride. When I bought the car 6 years ago I used it for sales and it was the car I needed for that job. It would have made no sense to sell it or trade it just to get a lower MPG for gig work. I considered doing that but now I'm so glad I didn't, the last thing I would have needed right now is a car payment.

Anyway I was happy to pay more for the car and the gas, to have less back pain...unless you have experienced sciatica so severe it feels like your leg is being electrocuted, you might not understand. My bottom line is I cannot function at all in that kind of pain.

Toyotas and Hondas are painful cars to drive. The savings would not be worth it for me.



Subaru_X said:


> The most efficient car for Uber is the one you already own.


Exactly.


----------



## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

You fail to realize that as independent businesses all drivers are in competition, and Uber/Lyft must pay enough for the "average" driver to make an "acceptable" amount of money on their platform.

Look at the big picture.

If all drivers were operating their business in the most efficient way possible, this would lead to higher average earnings for all drivers across the board, which would discourage Uber/Lyft from ever increasing driver pay rates as drivers will be "overpaid" at that point.

If most drivers are not operating efficiently, this means that your average driver will make less due to their incompetence, but Uber/Lyft must still pay something resembling a living wage for the "average" driver, otherwise they will have huge driver retention and recruitment problems.

The more incompetent and inefficient your competition (other drivers), the more opportunity you have to earn more than they do by operating a leaner and more efficient business.

What is bad for other drivers is good for you. They are your competition. If average drivers start making too much money do you think Uber/Lyft will sit by and let them keep it? No. We have already seen that they can and will lower rates, increase their fees, and shift the customers money to their side of the equation using any means necessary. Why let "average" drivers earn $20/hour in a job that takes no skill or training when plenty of people would be happy with only $15/hour? If the average driver is inefficiently earning $15/hour you can easily outsmart them and still earn $20/hour, but if every driver is running at 100% efficiency and making still $15/hour then you will ALSO make $15/hour.

Always remember there are 3 parties. The customer, the platform, and the driver.
1. Customer pays money
2. Uber/Lyft takes as much as they can from the customer
3. Uber/Lyft gives you the minimum possible amount of customer's money

If EVERY driver is getting 50 MPG instead of 22 MPG do you think we will all just get to keep that money?

No.

Even if drivers are truely allowed to set their own rates, would it be better for you if every driver got 50 MPG and could then set lower rates due to lower business overhead? Or would it be better for you if every other driver got 22 MPG and had to charge more, and you could still charge what they charge and keep the profit from your 50 MPG?

Think about it.



Young Kim said:


> Please be mindful, and May God Bless all of our current military and veterans today (and also all of us)!!


And I hope God does not bless those who willingly participate in baseless military invasions and endless wars, causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands and terrorizing of millions of innocent civilians as the United States military has done.


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

fraqtl said:


> I am curious if you have any thoughts about whether water is wet or not?
> 
> I learned all of this when I got my MBA from Well Duh! University
> 
> ...


You dont have to kill mate!!!
Just move on over here and you can stop with that silly km garbage too...


----------



## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

z_z_z_ said:


> You fail to realize that as independent businesses all drivers are in competition, and Uber/Lyft must pay enough for the "average" driver to make an "acceptable" amount of money on their platform.
> 
> Look at the big picture.
> 
> ...


Regarding the US military and it's international involvement and your criticism of it, I can only say it is a deep and profound issue. Some in the US will agree with you, and others would be deeply troubled.


----------



## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

I picked up “G” at a glimpse then figured, why would I read through the whole book if I already know the ending.


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## fraqtl (Aug 27, 2016)

Young Kim said:


> I don't remember how long each shift was, but yes it was a lot more than 2 hours... but as bobby747 corrected me, maybe I am driving for the wrong platform. It seems UberBlack is FAR SUPERIOR.


Maybe, but you'd have to get a much fancier car to drive for Black.

It's more important to be aware of maximising both your gross income and your net profit because without maximising the former, all the effort going into the latter is nowhere near as valuable.



25rides7daysaweek said:


> Just move on over here and you can stop with that silly km garbage too...


lol.

*insert standard imperial vs. metric argument here*



z_z_z_ said:


> You fail to realize that as independent businesses all drivers are in competition, and Uber/Lyft must pay enough for the "average" driver to make an "acceptable" amount of money on their platform.
> 
> Look at the big picture.
> 
> ...


You seem delusional


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

UberChiefPIT said:


> This guy gives me vibes that he's one of the few Uber customer service employees that didn't get laid off (yet) and is competing to keep his job.


He sounds a lot like a guy who was trolling the Dallas forum. Frankie something I think was his handle.


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## PopcornEater (Apr 26, 2020)

Jesus man, summary for new readers: Prius save you on gas ⛽ 😒
I hope G doesn’t read this post 😂
My opinion, this is not a business until I control how much to charge for my services 👌 TIL then I’m in a loop hole, doesn’t mean I should drive a hellcat because I want to be a cool Uberguy... yes by all means be smart 😬 smartiiishhh


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

fraqtl said:


> You seem delusional


You don't think that drivers are in competition with each other? &#129315;


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## fraqtl (Aug 27, 2016)

z_z_z_ said:


> You don't think that drivers are in competition with each other? &#129315;


Your post said a *lot* more than that statement. The whole post had an air of delusion about it.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

_Tron_ said:


> Happy M day to you too. But now that you have dispensed all that good advice to your friend, it is time for you to soak up some advice yourself. Young Kim, it's ok to buy you clothes at Ross or Walmart. It's ok to get your hair cut at Supercuts. It's ok to get your baggies, plastic containers, aluminum foil and damn near everything else they stock at the dollar store.
> 
> Except food. Dollar Store peanutbutter & jelly sandwiches? Hold the phone Young Kim. You should apply the same smart Uber driving principles you have engineered directly to the food you eat. In other words, _it's not just about filling your stomach today_! You're in it for the long haul. Would you put crap gas in your Ubercar? Certainly not. Why put crap food in your biological machine?
> 
> ...


Hahaha! I cracked up at your response. Thanks so much. You made my day. I only illustrated the example of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich as one of my meals. I often do pack nutritious foods...always I have fruits and vegetables to snack on. I'll avoid drive through fast foods because they usually have foods that are high in cholesterol and are processed.


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## Crosbyandstarsky (Feb 4, 2018)

Young Kim said:


> *Minimizing Costs while Maximizing Profit*
> 
> Dear friends, Happy Memorial Day to all! As I finished my shift last night, I reflected on a conversation I had with a fellow driver "G" who I think approaches driving for Uber in a very inefficient way. Please let me explain, and suggest how it may help any other (particularly new) rideshare drivers reflect on their own working patterns. I aver that an Uber driver _must_ consider his/her driving work to be first and foremost an _independent business_, rather than someone who lackadaisically drives for money.
> 
> ...


This is a little off balance. Did you not know you were your own business and an independent contractor?


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

Crosbyandstarsky said:


> This is a little off balance. Did you not know you were your own business and an independent contractor?


Naturally I always knew that this was my own business and I was an independent contractor. Therefore, to many it may seem that I am simply mentioning the obvious. Thus, probably many may find my post of not much use. I was just sharing my thoughts about how a driver, particularly a new driver, should approach driving. But as many said, it is equally important to focus not only on "saving" but rather maximizing sales. Have a nice day.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

When I started driving it didn't take long to become hard core about minimizing expenses. However, I also made a conscious choice to try and expand my life a little bit, as long as the opportunity was there and the costs weren't too bad.

Most people live life in their own bubble. Eat at the same restaurants every week, go to the same places over and over. I decided that since I was learning where ALL the cool places were (from repeatedly taking zillions of people there), maybe I should try some of these places out.

I have eaten at some of the best restaurants and bars in town in the past 3 years, something I never would have done without driving for Uber. Does it cost more than packing a PBJ? Absolutely. But every once in a while, it's good to get out and live.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

Subaru_X said:


> G'day from Australia.
> 
> I appreciate the effort you put into your post. The basic premise that Uber drivers are in effect an ongoing business is valid. People should remember this rather than try to imagine themselves as mistreated employees.
> 
> ...


[Hey Mate! G'day back from the USA! Indeed many of my past perspectives in life have been flawed and incomplete. Guilty as charged...]

[And I apologize if I came across as self-congratulatory. That really was not my intention... Also, I did not "gloat" to him. I just pointed out my own perspective on his handling...like his buying a brand new Prius fully loaded]

[And I agree, sometimes I feel I could do more and be a better friend to him. Although I have helped him numerous times in other areas of his life which I will not get into here in full detail, but much to do to help him with his alcoholism and cocaine addiction]

[I agree 100%. I never told anyone to purchase a brand new car if _they already have a car to use for Uber_. I just suggest that someone buy a car with thoughtful consideration _if they are just starting to drive for Uber and do not own a car_]

[I again agree with you it is not "wrong" per se to buy food while driving. It IS a "personal lifestyle choice". I just like to point out though that going to restaurants while working can add up over the course of a month. But if dining out makes someone happier overall, then I encourage them to do it. Hey...whatever makes you happy right?]

[Yeah, I found the story of my passenger who drove for UberSelect (who bought that Infinity brand new) and reported to me that his oxygen sensor was not covered to be unbelievable too. _But that is what he told me! _ If that happened to me personally, I would talk to the manager, then his :smiles:supervisor, then owner(s) of the dealership, then a very good lawyer if they didn't fix my new car for free.]

[Hahahaha! :smiles: I do share your criticism of me. I read a lot of my own instructor reviews. Most are positive, but I have read a couple of valid criticisms, and tried to improve. I don't know if I "torment" them, but I know I can always strive to improve and better my teaching style. And I am NOT saying I am destined for any great things. I consider myself just "average" in all areas of my life. Really, I do. I just bought a used Prius as a side hustle because it sounded fun. Sometimes it is fun, sometimes it is not]

[Perhaps you are right...My understanding of business, accounting, micro and macroeconomics, etc. I feel is just average, so I may have to defer to your knowledge in this case. But I was influenced a lot by the college I went to, which lived and breathed economics]

:smiles:
:roflmao:[LMAO at the last comment! LOL! It made my day! I love criticism. If not, I could never improve myself or my way of thinking. I'll try to be more concise in the future. You and others are correct that the style and design and general aesthetics of a Toyota Prius have always come into question. It ain't a pretty car by any means! I know I won't be picking up any girls in it... haha...] :smiles:

[Anyways, thanks so much for your intelligent reply. I wish you my fellow Uber driver in Australia...a very wonderful day from a fellow comrade from the USA!!!] :roflmao:


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Young Kim said:


> *Minimizing Costs while Maximizing Profit*
> 
> Dear friends, Happy Memorial Day to all! As I finished my shift last night, I reflected on a conversation I had with a fellow driver "G" who I think approaches driving for Uber in a very inefficient way. Please let me explain, and suggest how it may help any other (particularly new) rideshare drivers reflect on their own working patterns. I aver that an Uber driver _must_ consider his/her driving work to be first and foremost an _independent business_, rather than someone who lackadaisically drives for money.
> 
> ...


Meh... there is no one-size-fits-all strategy for rideshare. There are many different driver types and, therefore, different strategies.

There are the "hobbyist" drivers, who just do it for something to do. Semi-retired or retired people who just want to get out and meet people. Profit is not their aim.

Then there are the "make-believe" drivers who for some reason like playing the role of chauffeur and driving people around, spending out on giving them world-class vehicles, amenities and service. Bizarre, yes, but they do exist.

Then there are the drivers who are kind of interested in making a profit, but not really. These are the guys who buy new cars for Uber but say that it's worth it because they'd rather pay "a bit more" and drive around in comfort.

Next, the drivers who have no grasp on financials or accounting. These are the guys who spend 20 or 30 grand on an Uber car and say that depreciation doesn't affect them because they will never sell their car. Of course, they don't understand that depreciation is not paid if or when they sell the vehicle, but that the car owner pre-pays the depreciation when they purchase it.

And getting back to your purchase, you say you bought a 2015 Prius. It could definitely be argued that you overspent on getting a vehicle - with the reliability of Toyota, a 2010 or even a 2007 Prius would have served you just as well and saved you thousands. However, again, it's personal choice. You chose to spend more because you wanted to.

Same with the eating-out part. As you mentioned, some people enjoy eating out and trying new restaurants. It's their money and they think it's worth it. Not everyone will be happy with a packed lunch every day.

So.... some interesting points in your advice, but these are what work for you as an ultra-frugal person. But not everyone is the same.


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

If you took your own advice, you would stop offering free advice to your competition. It is to your advantage to allow them to go out of business. I also fail to see how this entire advice story fits with your previous lengthy story of giving away masks and sanitizer and cleaning your vehicle after every ride...nothing efficient about wiping down your car after every pax.



bobby747 said:


> Free masks. And gloves Kim gives to airport rides .
> In his Prius GTFO


Right? And wiping down the entire car after every pax. He is so into writing that he doesn't even remember what he wrote last week.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

EastBayRides said:


> If you took your own advice, you would stop offering free advice to your competition. It is to your advantage to allow them to go out of business. I also fail to see how this entire advice story fits with your previous lengthy story of giving away masks and sanitizer and cleaning your vehicle after every ride...nothing efficient about wiping down your car after every pax.
> 
> 
> Right? And wiping down the entire car after every pax. He is so into writing that he doesn't even remember what he wrote last week.


Good morning EastBayRides, haha! :roflmao: This was a good response. I did note that I gave out only a few masks over the past two weeks. Cost me a whole 2 dollars (50 cents x 4 masks) during this time. I only had four airport runs in the last three weeks. I did this because it seemed like a nice gesture. Also, I can't see why it is bad to give out free advice. Even if it may hurt me, it helps me in other ways to know I could have helped others. Have a nice day.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I have talked to many drivers and most of them are working for the quick cash with no regards to long term outlooks. They look at my daily records of every trip and tell me it is overkill. It may be over kill, however I can tell you if I am making a profit or not and that is what is important to me. Profit per mile after all expenses. Don't care about hourly earnings because if I don't have the free time I won't drive.

Uber hooks drivers in with bonuses and more rides to start drivers are seeing the quick and easy cash, most never look at the long term picture.

Easy on the brakes, easy on the gas I have said this before, saves a lot of money long term. My car is 80,000+ miles and still does not need brake pads, I just checked them 2 weeks ago when I rotated my tires.

I do as many as my own repairs as I can. Saves Money. Fortunately my current car has not need any outside of oil changes and new tires.

I don't ever recall running into a restaurant or quick stop to buy food or drinks. I keep a cooler in my car with water and food I may need while out on the road. Heck I know some drivers their daily goal it to cover their gas and their food eaten out that day. I just shake my head. No way thay are making any money doing this. Buy hey if they are happy go for it.


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

Young Kim said:


> Good morning EastBayRides, haha! :roflmao: This was a good response. I did note that I gave out only a few masks over the past two weeks. Cost me a whole 2 dollars (50 cents x 4 masks) during this time. I only had four airport runs in the last three weeks. I did this because it seemed like a nice gesture. Also, I can't see why it is bad to give out free advice. Even if it may hurt me, it helps me in other ways to know I could have helped others. Have a nice day.


It's not that you gave out only four masks. You offered the idea as a way for other drivers. It is a suggestion that is counter to this new post about being efficient. Be consistent...and more succinct.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

EastBayRides said:


> It's not that you gave out only four masks. You offered the idea as a way for other drivers. It is a suggestion that is counter to this new post about being efficient. Be consistent...and more succinct.


Yeah, you are right. I should not have posted about the masks before. It was just something that worked for me. Maybe not good advice for other drivers.


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

fraqtl said:


> Your post said a *lot* more than that statement. The whole post had an air of delusion about it.


Again you provide no specifics or anything of substance.

I think you're the one that is delusional, everything I said is true whether you can comprehend it or not.


----------



## fraqtl (Aug 27, 2016)

z_z_z_ said:


> Again you provide no specifics or anything of substance.
> 
> I think you're the one that is delusional, everything I said is true whether you can comprehend it or not.


The specifics are in the original post. No need.



z_z_z_ said:


> I think you're the one that is delusional


Exactly what a delusional person would say.


z_z_z_ said:


> everything I said is true whether you can comprehend it or not


Believing it's true and it being true are two different things.


----------



## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

fraqtl said:


> Exactly what a delusional person would say.


A delusional person would call someone else delusional while refusing to state their own opinion or view.


----------



## fraqtl (Aug 27, 2016)

z_z_z_ said:


> A delusional person would call someone else delusional while refusing to state their own opinion or view.


That's not how it works. Only a delusional person wouldn't know how it works


----------



## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

fraqtl said:


> That's not how it works. Only a delusional person wouldn't know how it works


----------



## The queen 👸 (Jan 2, 2020)

NOXDriver said:


> Do you really expect people to read all that jibber-jabba?


I ain't reading all that . Cliff notes please. Thank you .


----------



## Flacco (Apr 23, 2016)

Young Kim said:


> *Minimizing Costs while Maximizing Profit*
> 
> Dear friends, Happy Memorial Day to all! As I finished my shift last night, I reflected on a conversation I had with a fellow driver "G" who I think approaches driving for Uber in a very inefficient way. Please let me explain, and suggest how it may help any other (particularly new) rideshare drivers reflect on their own working patterns. I aver that an Uber driver _must_ consider his/her driving work to be first and foremost an _independent business_, rather than someone who lackadaisically drives for money.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time for this very thoughtful post : )


----------



## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

People hear my words.

You will make more money and have better protections if you are an employee.

Large corporations lie cheat and steal from Low wage workers and the people pay the price so they can fly in private jets.

Stand united deny the large corporation from stealing what is due to you.

Fight for good pay and benefits fight for your loved ones future fight for yourself because large corporations are fighting to keep you suppressed and in the dark and in the poor house.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Mole said:


> You will make more money and have better protections if you are an employee


so clearly you believe being an employee is all honey and rainbows? Please detail how you think RS will implement us being employees. Please be detailed. You won't be graded on a curve.


----------



## fraqtl (Aug 27, 2016)

Mole said:


> People hear my words.
> 
> You will make more money and have better protections if you are an employee.
> 
> ...


Captain Obvious strikes again.


----------



## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

SHalester said:


> so clearly you believe being an employee is all honey and rainbows? Please detail how you think RS will implement us being employees. Please be detailed. You won't be graded on a curve.


OK let's go through the list.

#1 A guaranteed minimum wag.
#2 A reduction in drivers that will contribute to less vehicles having idle time = more money.
#3 Workmans compensation if you are hurt on the job from a angry pax or a accident you have protections that will safeguard your health and life. <--------- Priceless.
#4 State mandated work rules and safeguards. You can not be unfairly fired corporations will no longer be able to fire you for a bogus claim with out proof the state will have protocols to contest being fired and corporations can be held accountable financially IN A COURT OF LAW.
#5 Labor agreements will be mandated to follow all state and federal laws.
#6 Compensation for miles driven for ware and tear on your vehicle. $$$$$$$$$$$$$
#7 Less SSI taxes.

The list goes on.


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

Mole said:


> OK let's go through the list.
> 
> #1 A guaranteed minimum wag.
> #2 A reduction in drivers that will contribute to less vehicles having idle time = more money.
> ...


#1 Your wage will be MUCH lower than what we make currently as contractors, especially if you are a fast driver
#2 Drivers are already being naturally reduced to due the extremely high turnover, and as an employee you will only be able to work on one platform meaning you will be missing out on nearby business for all other platforms
#3 Workmans comp is overrated, better to avoid being hurt in the first place by being smart
#4 You will still be fired for multiple complaints or any serious complaint with proof from the passenger
#5 ??? are we going to be unionized as well???
#6 This will come out of our reduced wages
#7 You will pay WAY more tax as an employee than we currently pay with the mileage deduction


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

1 A guaranteed minimum wag. *Well, state minimum wage of $13 per hour. Sure*
#2 A reduction in drivers that will contribute to less vehicles having idle time = more money.* Fantasy. *
#3 Workmans compensation if you are hurt on the job from a angry pax or a accident you have protections that will safeguard your health and life. <--------- Priceless.* Huh? for injuries, certainly. For mental health issues, sure prove *it.
#4 State mandated work rules and safeguards. You can not be unfairly fired corporations will no longer be able to fire you for a bogus claim with out proof the state will have protocols to contest being fired and corporations can be held accountable financially IN A COURT OF LAW. *Very sorry to pop this, but calif is a 'at will' state. Employer can fire you for almost any reason with few exceptions. *
#5 Labor agreements will be mandated to follow all state and federal laws. *State and Fed don't make 'agreements' with employees. And a union is not even a remote possibility, if we were to be employees. *
#6 Compensation for miles driven for ware and tear on your vehicle. $$$$$$$$$$$$$ *Just the standard rate set by the IRS; nothing more*.
#7 Less SSI taxes. You got this one really wrong. *As employees there will be payroll with holdings up to 35%. No more gross pay.

All in all as I've stated being an employee is not all candy and rainbows. *


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

z_z_z_ said:


> #1 Your wage will be MUCH lower than what we make currently as contractors, especially if you are a fast driver
> #2 Drivers are already being naturally reduced to due the extremely high turnover, and as an employee you will only be able to work on one platform meaning you will be missing out on nearby business for all other platforms
> #3 Workmans comp is overrated, better to avoid being hurt in the first place by being smart
> #4 You will still be fired for multiple complaints or any serious complaint with proof from the passenger
> ...


First your wage will be higher just like the drivers in NYC. 
As an employee you can work as many platforms as you like your statement is not true.
Workmans comp is a life saver and worth paying for incase you get assaulted or in a car crash.
If you are fired for valid reasons then so be it but if your fired for a false accusation you can fight it and as all good drivers have dash cams we have the proof.
Union? maybe maybe not.
Being paid for milage is better than the deduction. You will also be able to deduct expenses vs just a milage deduction.

The simple truth is being an employee outweighs by far then being an IC.
My accountant has told me this and she is a sharp cookie.


----------



## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

SHalester said:


> 1 A guaranteed minimum wag. *Well, state minimum wage of $13 per hour. Sure*


Minimum wage in my state is 8.25, federal is 7.25, 13 is a fairy tale.

And don't forget we get tips so how many places will we qualify for the "tipped employees" minimum wage which can be as little as $2.13 per hour?

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

z_z_z_ said:


> 13/hour is a joke


...we are talking calif here. No other state has AB5 like law......yet.....so another state is not relevant.

And as employees you think pax will tip us more or less? My guess would be much much less tips.


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

Mole said:


> First your wage will be higher just like the drivers in NYC.
> As an employee you can work as many platforms as you like your statement is not true.
> Workmans comp is a life saver and worth paying for incase you get assaulted or in a car crash.
> If you are fired for valid reasons then so be it but if your fired for a false accusation you can fight it and as all good drivers have dash cams we have the proof.
> ...


Wage will not be higher. Period.
You can't work for competitors as an employee unless the employer allows you to do so.
Workmans comp is bullshit
Firing will be the same as it is now
No unions
If you are paid for your miles you don't also get to deduct them.

Your accountant doesn't know how the taxi/livery business works, and if she is telling you that you can deduct your vehicle expenses after you get paid for mileage as an employee then she has no idea what she is talking about.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

z_z_z_ said:


> Workmans comp is bullshit


not exactly. If you are injured while on the job the medical expenses will be handled. If there was no WC ins, you would be on the hook for those expenses.
But, you are right. workers comp isn't really a 'benefit'.


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

SHalester said:


> ...we are talking calif here. No other state has AB5 like law......yet.....so another state is not relevant.
> 
> And as employees you think pax will tip us more or less? My guess would be much much less tips.


Good then you can be the guinea pigs while everyone else stays independent and making more money.

Pax will tip more or less depending on how much they are pressured into being tipped. The current narrative is that drivers make "so much money" they must not need tips. If they know we are on a server wage then they are more likely to tip as they aren't going to believe some bullshit advertisement on facebook about drivers making $20-30/hour.

I've already solved my tipping problem by having a nice sign in my car explaining that I am self-employed and do not work for Uber or Lyft and stating that I am paid 70 cents a mile and 15 cents a minute plus 1 dollar at the start of the ride and I pay for my own expenses. They do the math and realize i'm not making $30/hour and generally leave a tip as appropriate.



SHalester said:


> not exactly. If you are injured while on the job the medical expenses will be handled. If there was no WC ins, you would be on the hook for those expenses.
> But, you are right. workers comp isn't really a 'benefit'.


Also called health insurance or life insurance.... All you really get is the lost wages which is not going to be much.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

z_z_z_ said:


> Also called health insurance or life insurance....


no, that's wrong, Worker's Comp is not regular insurance.

What is *California workers*' *compensation*? *California Workers*' *Compensation* law is a no-fault system for injuries connected with your employment, whether they are specific injuries or a disease or disabling condition. Your employer is required to pay for *Workers Compensation* Insurance to cover all its employees.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

z_z_z_ said:


> Wage will not be higher. Period.
> You can't work for competitors as an employee unless the employer allows you to do so.
> Workmans comp is bullshit
> Firing will be the same as it is now
> ...


I disagree with everything you just stated and my accounts kids do Uber and tons of Uber drivers taxes so I'm sure she knows better then you.
You state words but provide no facts.


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

Mole said:


> I disagree with everything you just stated and my accounts kids do Uber and tons of Uber drivers taxes so I'm sure she knows better then you.
> You state words but provide no facts.


Where are your facts?

And as for your accountant she blatantly told you something that isn't true so go ahead keep living in a dream world I'm sure she is the best accountant ever which is why she makes a living scamming Uber drivers who could easily do their own taxes.

If you want to be an employee go to Mcdonalds. They will give you minimum wage and you don't even have to own a car!



SHalester said:


> no, that's wrong, Worker's Comp is not regular insurance.
> 
> What is *California workers*' *compensation*? *California Workers*' *Compensation* law is a no-fault system for injuries connected with your employment, whether they are specific injuries or a disease or disabling condition. Your employer is required to pay for *Workers Compensation* Insurance to cover all its employees.


It says right there that it is "insurance"


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

z_z_z_ said:


> It says right there that it is "insurance"


go back and read your note. There is nothing 'regular' about WC and it is not medical or life insurance as you posted. Scroll up and read, please. 
And did you note the employer pays WC, not the employee. Which would again point it is not 'regular' personal insurance.


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## whatyoutalkinboutwillis (Jul 29, 2017)

Young Kim said:


> *Minimizing Costs while Maximizing Profit*


That was a whole lot of typing and much of it read like Goofus and Gallant. If people haven't already figured out how to maximize their profits as an independent contractor, your post won't help them.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> Synapse is an entire post is....
> 
> View attachment 466376


A synapse is a junction between two nerve cells, lol. You mean synopsis.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

What about increasing your tip percentage received. This is a big and overlooked area. Expenses are difficult to cut as most are fixed. However, increasing your slim profit margin from the rides will probably be easier.

***And, here's a freebie do NOT pick up non-tippers or millenials!!!!!******



Young Kim said:


> *Minimizing Costs while Maximizing Profit*
> 
> Dear friends, Happy Memorial Day to all! As I finished my shift last night, I reflected on a conversation I had with a fellow driver "G" who I think approaches driving for Uber in a very inefficient way. Please let me explain, and suggest how it may help any other (particularly new) rideshare drivers reflect on their own working patterns. I aver that an Uber driver _must_ consider his/her driving work to be first and foremost an _independent business_, rather than someone who lackadaisically drives for money.
> 
> ...


I agree, always buy a reliable Honda or Toyota. However, I do hear that Hyundai and Kia have made tremendous improvement in quality. Probably even better than American brands.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

SHalester said:


> Only thing I mindful of is positive cash flow and a tax net loss (or as close as I can get). Everything else is just way too much work. Just saying.


Please remember, taxable income is how Social Security determines benefits for retirement and disability. As a contractor, you must save for your own retirement.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Diamondraider said:


> As a contractor, you must save for your own retirement.


thanks. My career determined my SS amounts; RS is a nit. I'm set for retirement. Well, official "i'm getting a SS check'' age in 10 years. SS, pension and a portfolio. Oh, and a wife. Can't forget her..... &#129322; RS is just to fill the donut hole and a schedule. Which, right this second is gone.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

SHalester said:


> thanks. My career determined my SS amounts; RS is a nit. I'm set for retirement. Well, official "i'm getting a SS check'' age in 10 years. SS, pension and a portfolio. Oh, and a wife. Can't forget her..... &#129322; RS is just to fill the donut hole and a schedule. Which, right this second is gone.


That is great. I hope I'm as lucky in 10 years


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Diamondraider said:


> That is great. I hope I'm as lucky in 10 years


it doesn't happen on its own; you must plan and save. With a benefited W2 you plunk down at much as you can or even max out a 401K contribution. You save on top of that. Pensions are toast for most, so that leaves what you do. SS was never intended to be the only source of income.........


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

SHalester said:


> it doesn't happen on its own; you must plan and save. With a benefited W2 you plunk down at much as you can or even max out a 401K contribution. You save on top of that. Pensions are toast for most, so that leaves what you do. SS was never intended to be the only source of income.........


So many young people want to live life now and never consider the future. Sure live life now, however live life in your middle ages, and live life in your retirement years, just live within your means while always saving for retirement.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> o many young people want to live life now


yeah, I had that convo with my wife 17 years ago when I suggested putting money into her 401k. Her response: "I'm too young to think about that". sheesh.


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## 4000 rides (Feb 9, 2019)

Young Kim said:


> *Minimizing Costs while Maximizing Profit*
> 
> Dear friends, Happy Memorial Day to all! As I finished my shift last night, I reflected on a conversation I had with a fellow driver "G" who I think approaches driving for Uber in a very inefficient way. Please let me explain, and suggest how it may help any other (particularly new) rideshare drivers reflect on their own working patterns. I aver that an Uber driver _must_ consider his/her driving work to be first and foremost an _independent business_, rather than someone who lackadaisically drives for money.
> 
> ...


Does Geico know that you are a ride-share driver? The don't insure RS in about half the states. I was with them before I did any RS, and when I was hit (100% his fault) and called them right away, the first question I was asked was if I had ever used the car for RS!


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

$500 a month for insurance? Who on Earth pays $6,000 a year on car insurance, even with the ride share supplement?


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

May H. said:


> Prius brake pads last much longer than conventional vehicles.


I never understood the whine about brake pads. They're super cheap and easy to install!


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## part-timer (Oct 5, 2015)

Your brake fluid comes in a spray can?????


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## OCBob (Jan 20, 2015)

Sounds like "G" will rent for the rest of his life. There are a lot of "G"s driving thinking they are living the life.


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## Da Ub (Oct 29, 2016)

It’s too bad that we are not really independent contractors.🤗


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

Da Ub said:


> It's too bad that we are not really independent contractors.&#129303;


I'm concerned if the "employee status" for Uber drivers comes to Chicago where I drive. I wonder if anyone in California has any opinion on this (where Uber drivers were reclassified as employees). For myself, I am content to leave things as they are.


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## LetsBeSmart (Mar 12, 2020)

Your best bet is to quit until they learn we aint taking it anymore, raise rates so the driver benefits and reduce what you take from the driver, biggest scam in the 21st century.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

There’s an idea.


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## LetsBeSmart (Mar 12, 2020)

Young Kim said:


> *Minimizing Costs while Maximizing Profit*
> 
> Dear friends, Happy Memorial Day to all! As I finished my shift last night, I reflected on a conversation I had with a fellow driver "G" who I think approaches driving for Uber in a very inefficient way. Please let me explain, and suggest how it may help any other (particularly new) rideshare drivers reflect on their own working patterns. I aver that an Uber driver _must_ consider his/her driving work to be first and foremost an _independent business_, rather than someone who lackadaisically drives for money.
> 
> ...


If most did that they couldn't possibly driver anymore because they are raping and pillaging them and it would become apparent with looking at everything rather than keeping the blinders on and losing.


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## Ridesharegal31 (Jun 6, 2020)

Young Kim, you are right and will succeed...many people on here feel stupid and ashamed so they have to say something...thank you for the good advice.


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