# Takes: X vs. Black in San Francisco



## WhiteLineNightmare (Jun 23, 2014)

Hello,

I am an UberX driver working in San Francisco.

I can reliably on a weeknight work 11 hours and make $280-300 after commission. On a weekend, that number goes to about $350. All in all it comes out to about 30 an hour, but I prefer to think about the actual total take.

I am strongly considering switching to black, as I hear the money is better. I've got the capital to buy the car. But FORGETTING about gas, maintenance, insurance, payments, etc...

How much DO Uber Black drivers make in a 10ish hour shift? I doubt I'm the only one who wants to know. Would be VERY grateful for any reports from San Francisco drivers, and certainly interested in NYC too...

Thanks!


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## Boss.T (Jun 20, 2014)

I would be interested to know as well, or for Chicago. I drive part time for UberX in Chicago. I can see that if someone did just UberX full time the earning potential is there. I am interested to know if you can receive fares for UberX and UberBlack simultaneously as long as you have the "UberBlack car criteria". If any full time UBlack drivers are out there, is it worth it do drive with the expensive car under the Uber umbrella? thanks!!


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

First you should check to make sure they're actually accepting more Uber Black in your city, in many cities they're not. They also won't let you drive UberX in a car that qualifies for Uber Black.


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## LookyLou (Apr 28, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> First you should check to make sure they're actually accepting more Uber Black in your city, in many cities they're not. They also won't let you drive UberX in a car that qualifies for Uber Black.


Did you ever get your issue with your new car ironed out with Uber? Are you driving Uber X in your new car?


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## Jeeves (Apr 10, 2014)

Welcome to the forum WhiteLineNightmare and Boss. T!

While I do not drive UberBLACK or SUV, there are some drivers around here that do. Nick Manning drives UberBLACK in Chicago, you might want to search the forum for him.

I notice not a lot of BLACK and SUV drivers talking here or around the web. I suppose they dont really want to entice more drivers into competing with them.


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## WhiteLineNightmare (Jun 23, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> First you should check to make sure they're actually accepting more Uber Black in your city, in many cities they're not. They also won't let you drive UberX in a car that qualifies for Uber Black.


That's all true. But I'm sure I could get in if it's worth the effort. By worth I mean money. But so far it's been extremely difficult to nail down any real information from anyone.

Which tells me either A) They aren't making more with Uber Black but are embarrassed about it, B) They are making amazing money and want to keep it a secret from the clawing throngs of X'rs, or C) they really are all Russians or Middle Easterners and don't frequent forums (which are a very honky thing, lets face it)


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## Jeeves (Apr 10, 2014)

Russians and Middle Easterners? I think Ubers partners are more worldly then you suspect. Perhaps thats a stereotype of your demographic in SF. Of what decent are you? That mustache is peculiar.


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

LookyLou said:


> Did you ever get your issue with your new car ironed out with Uber? Are you driving Uber X in your new car?


Still no response from Uber.


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## WhiteLineNightmare (Jun 23, 2014)

It's a completely unfair stereotype. My passengers who use both insist that it's true, but it can't be.

If Jersey doesn't give it away: English! But Then, I guess we all came from the Caucuses, which are in Russia. So I'm Russian.


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## WhiteLineNightmare (Jun 23, 2014)

Now how much do you three make?


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

WhiteLineNightmare said:


> That's all true. But I'm sure I could get in if it's worth the effort. By worth I mean money. But so far it's been extremely difficult to nail down any real information from anyone.
> 
> Which tells me either A) They aren't making more with Uber Black but are embarrassed about it, B) They are making amazing money and want to keep it a secret from the clawing throngs of X'rs, or C) they really are all Russians or Middle Easterners and don't frequent forums (which are a very honky thing, lets face it)


It's my understanding the there is less business for Uber Black, but you'll end up making about the same money since you make more per trip.
As for being able to get into Uber Black if they aren't accepting them in your city, I wouldn't count on that. I've been trying with no luck. You may be able to find someone who already has an account that will add you as a driver, but they'll want a cut, and then you're back to making UberX money with fewer trips.


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## Boss.T (Jun 20, 2014)

It seems then that UberBlack would only be most profitable for those that have other means of getting fares/rides other than the uber platform (ie booking for weddings and parties or airport pickups/dropoffs). Because in my view you have to have the more expensive car, the commercial license and commercial insurance. I wonder if you could by a Towncar for example and work for your self under the UberBlack and do ok (40-50K/year gross).

I emailed UberChicago and this was the response, if it may help anyone:

Hi Steve,

Thanks for writing in!

In order to qualify for UberBLACK, all vehicles need to be 2009 or newer, have a black exterior and interior, and have livery plates. You would also need to have a chauffeur's license.

Here are the cars we typically accept for UberBLACK:

_Sedans_
Audi A8, A8L, Q5, Q5 Hybrid, Q7
BMW 7 Series, X5, Active Hybrid 5
Cadillac DTS, XTS
Chrysler 300, 300C
Hyundai Equus
Infiniti M35H, M37, M60
Lexus LS 460, LS600
Lincoln MKT, MKS, MKX
Mercedes-Benz E-Class, S-Class
Tesla Model S

_SUVs_
Cadillac Escalade
Chevrolet Suburban
Chevrolet Tahoe / Tahoe Hybrid
Ford Expedition / EL
GMC Yukon XL/Denali/Hybrid
Infiniti QX56
Lincoln Navigator
Mercedes-Benz GL-Class

Thanks!

Best, 
Sabreena


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## Chicago-uber (Jun 18, 2014)

Talked to one of chicago uber black SUV guys. He's making $1200-1400 per week after all expenses... Not too bad. Might be my next step whenever it's time for me to get a new car.


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## Boss.T (Jun 20, 2014)

Wow that's a great number. Was he on this forum or someone you met in person? Was he strictly UberSUV and worked for himself? or for a limo type company?


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## Chicago-uber (Jun 18, 2014)

Boss.T said:


> Wow that's a great number. Was he on this forum or someone you met in person? Was he strictly UberSUV and worked for himself? or for a limo type company?


At a gas station. He said most of his income comes from uber. Works for himself.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Boss.T said:


> It seems then that UberBlack would only be most profitable for those that have other means of getting fares/rides other than the uber platform (ie booking for weddings and parties or airport pickups/dropoffs). Because in my view you have to have the more expensive car, the commercial license and commercial insurance. I wonder if you could by a Towncar for example and work for your self under the UberBlack and do ok (40-50K/year gross).
> 
> I emailed UberChicago and this was the response, if it may help anyone:
> 
> ...


Hi Boss T,

There may be some differences in operating a Black car here in Sydney to the States. But as you have mentioned, its important to be on the books of other lead generators apart from UBER.

Go and visit other established operators with your best suit and tie on. Ask if they are looking for more sub-contractors to fa out work to.

Be careful of the prejudice that's out there against UBER amongst the old-school established limo operators. So many have taken UBER's entry as a direct attack on the Limo industry. What I have observed is that any "losses" to UBER is collateral damage. But the LIMO industry haven't had a great system of dealing with on-demand bookings so those folk have found UBER to be better at that.

Here in Sydney UBER has plundered the Taxi industry, taking the very best taxi regulars who don't care about the slightly higher cost to ride Black.

Take your time in your purchase, don't over capitalise. My advice is buy a good 2nd hand car from an auction or through a wholesaler.

Try and curry favour with Concierges at Hotel and prestige apartment blocks. This work costs and often Concierges will expect $500-$1000 per month backhanded to them for unlimited access to work from their driveway. It may sound like a lot, but as soon as those folk are onboard start a conversation and see if there is an opportunity to convert them into private clients have a business card and sales pitch ready. After about 12 months of paying a Hotel for work you should have a whole raft of regulars.

Uber is a good fallback when private bookings are thin on the ground.


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## Boss.T (Jun 20, 2014)

Thanks Sydney Uber. I can't understand why the limo industry would be upset. I could understand if uber opened up UberBlack to anyone with the only requirement being a nice black on black car/suv, but that is not the case. As you said it opened up the on demand aspect of their service. 

Do you lease your vehicle from a guy with a fleet of vehicles or you own your personal vehicle?


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Boss.T said:


> Thanks Sydney Uber. I can't understand why the limo industry would be upset. I could understand if uber opened up UberBlack to anyone with the only requirement being a nice black on black car/suv, but that is not the case. As you said it opened up the on demand aspect of their service.
> 
> Do you lease your vehicle from a guy with a fleet of vehicles or you own your personal vehicle?


I have two sedans and two Mercedes Vianos in the SUV fleet. I have commissioned full time drivers on 2 of them me on one of the sedans, and the old Viano used when its needed or there are clashes in bookings. A couple of casual drivers to call when the work really pile up and I can double-shift a car.


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## Boss.T (Jun 20, 2014)

I would like to get a second car of my own on the road picking up fairs. I have looked through Google searches and haven't seen to much in this area offering UberX drivers to rent/lease a car from private owners to drive. Which is why im trying to weigh the possibility of recruiting a UberBlack driver or UberX type drivers.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Boss.T said:


> I would like to get a second car of my own on the road picking up fairs. I have looked through Google searches and haven't seen to much in this area offering UberX drivers to rent/lease a car from private owners to drive. Which is why im trying to weigh the possibility of recruiting a UberBlack driver or UberX type drivers.


I don't believe UBER allows non-vehicle owners to drive UBERx - it's got to be owned and driven by the one person. Check the agreement or simply ask.

I was told that by my Uber office when I was entertaining the idea of putting on a private car on UBERx, but when told it couldn't be driven by my wife ( who is also a Black driver) only the registered owner, there was no point.


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## Boss.T (Jun 20, 2014)

I asked also, seems like we got conflicting responses. I tired to be very blunt and not dodge what my intentions were, I would rather know the right answer before dumping any money. Maybe the states allow for different rules???...

* I asked:*
My nephew would like to be a partner driver for Uber, however, his current vehicle will not meet the requirements. If I was to let him use my second vehicle does he need to have his own insurance or can i add him as a driver to my full coverage policy? Most insurance companies are not familiar with TNC (ride sharing) type coverage options, so contacting them directly is probably not the best option

*Response:*
As long as your nephew is listed as a covered driver on your vehicle's insurance, he'll be able to drive your car with uberX.

What are your thoughts?


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## Boss.T (Jun 20, 2014)

can we keep this convo going of UberBlack success or worth the investment??


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## AMBUDRIVER03 (Jul 1, 2014)

I'll let you know in about a month...

I'm supposed to take delivery of my suburban next week or the next with CPUC permit in hand.

I have myself and 2 other drivers that will be driving the SUV in Orange County CA.

When the SUV has a driver, I'll drive my X car and double dip.

But the recent changes to UberBlack and SUV, especially with introduction of XL, have seriously dampened any chance of a massive return with UberSUV in Orange County.

At this point if I can manage to cover my costs and provide a supplemental income to my friend and dad (who is unemployed) I will consider it a victory.

And if in 6 months it isn't profitable enough I'll pull the plug and sublease the vehicle or worst case throw in the towel and chalk it up to a $10,000-15,000 mistake.

Don't get me wrong... It takes a lot of money to get started with Black...

Rule of thumb is you need enough money to cover your first 6 months of operations even if you're not making a profit.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

AMBUDRIVER03 said:


> I'll let you know in about a month...
> 
> I'm supposed to take delivery of my suburban next week or the next with CPUC permit in hand.
> 
> ...


Maaaaate!

If I had a suburban and a team of multi skilled drivers Uber would be only a fallback for the bulk of the business I would chase.

Some ideas would include getting a flyer printed to distribute at some of the more exclusive retirement villages.

"Chauffeured Tours, shopping, special events, Opera nights in the care of trained health care and Emergency Care drivers".

Approach one of the five star hotels and even if they have an established relationship with another operator make a point of difference in regards to your driving staff and vehicle.

Here in Sydney it costs $500 - $1000 up front, per month, backhanded to the senior Concierge which gives you as much work as you want. It may sound expensive but you will be trying to convert any of the driveway passengers to direct regulars CALLING you DIRECT on their next visit to your City.

Team up with other Suburban operator so if you have clashes just offload to them.

Put your best Suit on and front other established operators with Suburbans, showing them you're keen to carry out farm out work on their behalf, wearing their Ties or "trade dress". Offer to get magnetic signs to further strengthen your ability to be their representative on offloads.

Gotta go. But UBER should only amount to 20%-40% of your total take, anymore means there is little certainty in your income, and the vehicle would be doing more miles than it should


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> "Chauffeured Tours, shopping, special events, Opera nights in the care of trained health care and Emergency Care drivers".


I'm not sure about CA, but I can tell you that you'd get into big trouble doing that in MA. You'd need a whole different license, registration, and a MD to sign off as Medical Director. Not to mention the insurance coverage to go along with it... you think commercial insurance is expensive...


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

Just Some Guy said:


> I'm not sure about CA, but I can tell you that you'd get into big trouble doing that in MA. You'd need a whole different license, registration, and a MD to sign off as Medical Director. Not to mention the insurance coverage to go along with it... you think commercial insurance is expensive...


I thought that was what CPUC permit meant.

Here in Sydney NSW the operator needs to be accredited, the vehicle needs have a public vehicle license, commercial registration and insurance, and each driver had a public passenger vehicle drivers authority card.

I thought that was what AMBUDRIVER was proposing. I may be wrong b


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## Just Some Guy (Jun 10, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> I thought that was what CPUC permit meant.
> 
> Here in Sydney NSW the operator needs to be accredited, the vehicle needs have a public vehicle license, commercial registration and insurance, and each driver had a public passenger vehicle drivers authority card.
> 
> I thought that was what AMBUDRIVER was proposing. I may be wrong b


It's the part about offering trained healthcare and emergency care drivers that's the issue. That puts you into the private ambulance and chair car business, the regulation of which is far more strict than the taxi and livery business.


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## goasis (Jun 25, 2014)

In California you need an operating authority like a PTP. ? So you can have a black car with for hire tags. That's what I heard. Someone correct me if I have that wrong.
In the DC black car sedan market working 6am to 6/7 pm we try for 400. If we push for a few more hours we can gross another 150.
SuV...more volume. 25% of jobs are suv.
changing the shift to 4pm to 2am Thursday Fri and Sat yields about the same. 
You really have to experiment with when and where to go. Be aware of events in your
area.
Like here when there is a ball game at 7pm we work the close in burbs for nice long trips to the stadium. 
And you have to go out with a positive attitude and have high intentions. Don't chase the ping. Stay put for 20 minutes after a drop if you are in an area that has produced in the past. Try to link up jobs.. dont waste fuel driving and fishing. 
I do work one 18 hr shift per week. And with high intention I have done 650 to 800.
my best one day in an suv was 1100. 
But that was b4 X.....


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## HisShadowX (May 19, 2014)

Boss.T said:


> I would be interested to know as well, or for Chicago. I drive part time for UberX in Chicago. I can see that if someone did just UberX full time the earning potential is there. I am interested to know if you can receive fares for UberX and UberBlack simultaneously as long as you have the "UberBlack car criteria". If any full time UBlack drivers are out there, is it worth it do drive with the expensive car under the Uber umbrella? thanks!!


To become UberBlack in Chicago you need to have your chauffeurs license which means you have to go to a city college to go to school and have commercial insurance on your plates.

To me it's not worth it because you cannot pick up potential client flagging you down unless you have a city medallion which costs 125,000.00


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## HisShadowX (May 19, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> I don't believe UBER allows non-vehicle owners to drive UBERx - it's got to be owned and driven by the one person. Check the agreement or simply ask.
> 
> I was told that by my Uber office when I was entertaining the idea of putting on a private car on UBERx, but when told it couldn't be driven by my wife ( who is also a Black driver) only the registered owner, there was no point.


In the United States Uber has a new option for partners without vehicles to buddy up with a partner with a vehicle to allow then to use your vehicle for a worked out fee.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

HisShadowX said:


> In the United States Uber has a new option for partners without vehicles to buddy up with a partner with a vehicle to allow then to use your vehicle for a worked out fee.


I had gotten nowhere with them on the issue after a couple of emails when I told them not to worry because I was going to checkout the local Rideshare outfit called Ridesurfing and see what their policy is.

It was one of the fastest emailed responses back from them suggesting ways how my Wife could Drive as well. Usual inconsistent make-it-up-as-go company policy

I told them not to worry about it and joined up with Ridesurfing here. Its worked out well. The office and all The
folk are open all hours for customer service issues from both riders and drivers, and I've spoken to some of the riders who swear that the whole experience is better than Uber X here in Sydney.

That's the only way UBER is ever going to be forced to improve, is if they are subjected to the same competitive pressures that they have applied to Taxis around the world.


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## HisShadowX (May 19, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> I had gotten nowhere with them on the issue after a couple of emails when I told them not to worry because I was going to checkout the local Rideshare outfit called Ridesurfing and see what their policy is.
> 
> It was one of the fastest emailed responses back from them suggesting ways how my Wife could Drive as well. Usual inconsistent make-it-up-as-go company policy
> 
> ...


I would recommend approaching them in an email and informing them of the program uber has going on in the states and trying to get an ETA when or if this program will be entering in your territory.


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

HisShadowX said:


> I would recommend approaching them in an email and informing them of the program uber has going on in the states and trying to get an ETA when or if this program will be entering in your territory.


Decided not to bother with UberX here.

This new outfit keep pleasantly surprising me. Today my fat fingers somehow booked a Rideshare car, rather than simply switching the App from Driver to Rider mode. (When I want to go offline) Didn't know what I had done till the Ridesurfing driver called me up to confirm the booking details.

I apologised and introduced myself as the unco oldie in their fleet and told him I would cancel. All was good. Moments later I get a call from the Operations Manager following up to see if he could help me with the App as they try and keep cancellations down to a minimum. He explained cancellations from riders can waste a lot of drivers time, and keeping them from picking real bookings. He said they try and call ALL riders that cancel.

Wow! How's that for a subtle but effective way of telling riders that cancellations are BAD and you will be noticed.

I made my acquaintance and all was good.

BOOMSHAKA! !


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## zakk the bear (Jul 8, 2014)

HisShadowX said:


> In the United States Uber has a new option for partners without vehicles to buddy up with a partner with a vehicle to allow then to use your vehicle for a worked out fee.


I haven't heard of this program and can't find anything on it. have a link or a contact?


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## vaplimo (Dec 8, 2014)

WhiteLineNightmare said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am an UberX driver working in San Francisco.
> 
> ...


I am Russian, have nothing to hide:
Uber SF
8pm to 8am
5-6 days per week

Uberblack 15-25 trips per shift average per trip $27.5 (less driving, slower work, more complaints, lower ratings, wear suit, more luggage - if SUV, low MPG, commercial insurance, TCP, GTU permits a must) - average per month $8,000, before ALL expenses!

UberX 25-40 trips per shift average per trip $9.5 (more driving, more drunk clients, more and higher ratings) - average per month $5,000, no insurance, no permits needed!

Now do your own math:
Do you want to sit 30 minutes and wait for a ride or non stop driving?!
Do you want to drive in casual clothes and worry less about ratings or wear a suit and work on your pro skills!
There is only around $2,000 difference per month NET after all expenses between UberX and Uberblack, including SUVs
Now my 2 cents - If I have't had my limo company, TCP and luxury vehicles and just one car let's say 2010 Toyota Prius - I would not stat buying luxury cars, and getting all permits, and opening my own company, just to start working in Uberblack line these days, hell NO - just UberX! It is very hard to find a good driver who will work for you! Not worth it! 
Good luck!


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