# Online vs Working Hours



## Smurfingaround (May 20, 2019)

Hi everyone,
I just started driving for uber today to support my day to day expenses while studying as an International student here in Ontario Canada. 

I didn’t know about this before I started uber so I thought I should ask you guys.

As in international student, I am allowed to work only 20 hours. I respect the rule and do not intend to break it.


My question is, if driving for uber, what hours are considered “working hours”?

Here is how I see things,

Online hours: the time I am online, basically sitting at home, turned the app online and doing other stuff, like homework, watching a movie, daily chores e.t.c. In my mind, I have turned on the app and just let uber know that I am available to work if any ride comes along, which as an independent contractor will not count as working time.


Driving/trip hours: the time I am actually working, picking up and dropping off the passengers (can be anywhere from 1-2 hours between a ride in my city).

In my thinking:
If on my free days, I turn on the app and go about my day take a few passengers in the entire day and same other 3-4 days of my week. My online hours would be 60-70 a week. While my working/trip hours would be 15-17 a week. 

So my confusion/question is:
I don’t know what does the government considers working: My online hours or actual trip hours (which I am logging strictly)

I consider myself to be law abiding and would hate to break any rules. Thus my confusing question.

I tried to find information on this very specific question but couldn’t. Perhaps many students dont consider it. So thank you in advance.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

This may be best asked in the Canada section or check with local officials. Does self employment even count toward working hours? Maybe only working for time card job for another company is included in that 20 hours. Again, better to ask a local official or in the Canada area of this forum.


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## Smurfingaround (May 20, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> This may be best asked in the Canada section or check with local officials. Does self employment even count toward working hours? Maybe only working for time card job for another company is included in that 20 hours. Again, better to ask a local official or in the Canada area of this forum.


I asked Immigration office, uber, and the cops, nobody has a solid answer or no one has an experience in this regards.
I also believe Self-employment shouldn't count towards my hour limit. However, I want to be sure before doing anything.

Anyway, thank you, I'll ask on the Canadian page.


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## Kyanar (Dec 14, 2017)

I would strongly suspect online time is the answer there as that is time that you are available and plying for work (and, naturally, deducting taxes).


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## Smurfingaround (May 20, 2019)

Kyanar said:


> I would strongly suspect online time is the answer there as that is the time that you are available and plying for work (and, naturally, deducting taxes).


I don't know If I can deduct taxes on those hours as I wouldn't be driving or earning in them.
I am just gonna Keep trying to get in touch with Immigration Office and till then, I'll play it safe by simply keeping my hours under 20.


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## Kyanar (Dec 14, 2017)

Smurfingaround said:


> I don't know If I can deduct taxes on those hours as I wouldn't be driving or earning in them.
> I am just gonna Keep trying to get in touch with Immigration Office and till then, I'll play it safe by simply keeping my hours under 20.


You're actively online, yes? Then it's business travel as you're plying for fares, and actively available for work. All the guidance I can find says that you should start counting your mileage when your shift starts (you hit "Go") and stop counting when your shift ends (you hit "Go Offline").

Maximise the benefits of this by starting and ending your shift using destination mode to the city or other busy area and back to your house, then even driving to and from home is deductible!)

Here's a useful article from MileIQ for you: https://www.mileiq.com/en-ca/blog/tax-tips-for-uber-drivers/

Might also be worth investing in software like MileIQ or similar - or alternatively take note of their suggestions regarding mileage tracking (keep a book in the car, record odometer reading at 00:00 on 1/1, record again at cutover next year, etc, and readings at beginning and end of each shift)


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## TheCount (May 15, 2019)

Kyanar said:


> You're actively online, yes? Then it's business travel as you're plying for fares, and actively available for work. All the guidance I can find says that you should start counting your mileage when your shift starts (you hit "Go") and stop counting when your shift ends (you hit "Go Offline").
> 
> Maximise the benefits of this by starting and ending your shift using destination mode to the city or other busy area and back to your house, then even driving to and from home is deductible!)
> 
> ...


He's at home doing other stuff, not driving while waiting for fares. No miles to deduct, and anyway the IRS standard mileage deduction for driving your personal auto for business is a US thing, wouldn't apply in Canada. Added in edit - Oh, I see that article was written for Canada. Never mind, then.


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## Kyanar (Dec 14, 2017)

TheCount said:


> He's at home doing other stuff, not driving while waiting for fares. No miles to deduct, and anyway the IRS standard mileage deduction for driving your personal auto for business is a US thing, wouldn't apply in Canada.


I'm not sure where anyone mentioned IRS - I'm pretty sure in Canada the CRA standard mileage deduction applies, yes?

Still, whether actually deducting or not I would strongly tend towards being "online" and available for fares would count as "working hours" for immigration purposes. They wouldn't leave such a glaring loophole in the regulation.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Smurfingaround said:


> Hi everyone,
> I just started driving for uber today to support my day to day expenses while studying as an International student here in Ontario Canada.
> 
> I didn't know about this before I started uber so I thought I should ask you guys.
> ...


I ALSO WOULD LIKE ANSWER FOR THIS ?

Anyone ?


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

Just like any other job just because you aren't actively working doesn't mean you aren't "at work". 
When you swipe "online" your time starts. Every mile you drive is tax deductible whether you have a customer in your car or not


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## Smurfingaround (May 20, 2019)

Cdub2k said:


> Just like any other job just because you aren't actively working doesn't mean you aren't "at work".
> When you swipe "online" your time starts. Every mile you drive is tax deductible whether you have a customer in your car or not


Cool thanks for letting me know. I will follow online hours.



tohunt4me said:


> I ALSO WOULD LIKE ANSWER FOR THIS ?
> 
> Anyone ?





Kyanar said:


> I'm not sure where anyone mentioned IRS - I'm pretty sure in Canada the CRA standard mileage deduction applies, yes?
> 
> Still, whether actually deducting or not I would strongly tend towards being "online" and available for fares would count as "working hours" for immigration purposes. They wouldn't leave such a glaring loophole in the regulation.


There is a loophole because there is no regulations on it. They dont handle immigration stuff, so they don't care. I also did some reading and nowhere I found a mention of student being self employed. All I found was a tweet from IRCC.
The thing is, these "hours" they are just for students afaik. For other residents and citizens, this limitation doesn't exist. So not a lot of information on it.
I know a guy who maxes out his 12 hour driving limit (set by uber) every single day.

When I asked around, I got different answers from different people as well.



tohunt4me said:


> I ALSO WOULD LIKE ANSWER FOR THIS ?
> 
> Anyone ?


For the time being, I suggest dont go over 20 hour of being online. I'll try my best to connect with IRCC and ask them. Whenever I get a solid answer and not hearsay, I'd post it here and make a separate post to let others know as well. You should do the same.



TheCount said:


> He's at home doing other stuff, not driving while waiting for fares. No miles to deduct, and anyway the IRS standard mileage deduction for driving your personal auto for business is a US thing, wouldn't apply in Canada. Added in edit - Oh, I see that article was written for Canada. Never mind, then.


I can deduct mileage and all that.

However, I dont drive, and I have made a spreadsheet with mileage, time, and fare to keep a track of everything.

I chose uber based on the fact that I can turn my ADHD into profit. I cant focus on my research papers for too long. So I just go out roam around waste some time. Doing uberX, gives me a chance to do the same but I make money with it.



Cdub2k said:


> Just like any other job just because you aren't actively working doesn't mean you aren't "at work".
> When you swipe "online" your time starts. Every mile you drive is tax deductible whether you have a customer in your car or not


Correct, that is based on IF I drive and deduct those miles, and If I am getting paid by the hour.

Again, I just sit at home, studying, watching movies, researching and whatnot. If a ride comes along, And I am in the middle of an extremely creative flow (I dont know how else to say it) for my report, I just let it go. Otherwise, I accept and drop the passenger and head back home. Same goes all over again.

I maybe am wrong, but as far as I understand, By going online, I let uber know I am available for work, if something comes along, give me a call.
If they don't call me for an entire week, I won't earn anything and I won't be able to put any hours into tax deductions for that week, because I didn't work at all.



Kyanar said:


> You're actively online, yes? Then it's business travel as you're plying for fares, and actively available for work. All the guidance I can find says that you should start counting your mileage when your shift starts (you hit "Go") and stop counting when your shift ends (you hit "Go Offline").
> 
> Maximise the benefits of this by starting and ending your shift using destination mode to the city or other busy area and back to your house, then even driving to and from home is deductible!)
> 
> ...


Again, I am not driving a single mile while being online. i drive once I get a request. 
Thanks for the link. I will go through it.


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

They will only pay attention to time online. I don't see anyone attempting to trouble you about semantics. This works in your favor, so embrace it.


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## Smurfingaround (May 20, 2019)

nonononodrivethru said:


> They will only pay attention to time online. I don't see anyone attempting to trouble you about semantics. This works in your favor, so embrace it.


Thank you
I have decided to stick with online hours.

Once I get concrete answer from IRCC, I will post it in the forums.


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

Smurfingaround said:


> Thank you
> I have decided to stick with online hours.
> 
> Once I get concrete answer from IRCC, I will post it in the forums.


From what I have seen, my online hours on the app vs hours worked in the car do not match up. A week that I work 60 hrs often only says 40. However, I take many breaks and turn off the app when it isn't surging and to strategically reposition myself. I recommend this. Try turning off ride requests every time you accept a ride. This could elongate your drive time and decrease your dead time.


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## Smurfingaround (May 20, 2019)

Oh wow
Thank you for the suggestion. I’d find the best times and spots to earn a bit.


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## ahmedjirjees (Apr 11, 2020)

Hey, did you get an answer from IRCC?


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I would assume it online hours. I know here in the States as far as time regulations go,they count the online hours


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I live in Canada and while I can't answer the semantics of self employment, etc, I'd default to using ONLINE HOURS as the measuring stick.

You were online and ready to accept trips......so you were actually working per say.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

If you're sitting in front of the tv at home with the app on waiting for a ping and not in the car, I don't know anybody who would consider that work time. Once you're in the car... that's a different story.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Coachman said:


> If you're sitting in front of the tv at home with the app on waiting for a ping and not in the car, I don't know anybody who would consider that work time. Once you're in the car... that's a different story.


The Public Utilities Commission counts it


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

For me once I go online 'I'm working' and yeah I go online while I'm sitting in my media room and hopefully surround sound isn't too loud to hear a ping.
Once I leave my garage I'm driving; all mileage counts dead or not. Shift over when I go offline and park back in the garage. 

and in calif if we do become employees (we ain't no matter how high posters jump) all of the above will go bye bye.

datapoint: PUC regulates entities; not drivers.


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## Eshaan (Jul 9, 2020)

ahmedjirjees said:


> Hey, did you get an answer from IRCC?


I am also eagerly waiting for the reply he gets from IRCC


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## JS Baidwan (Jul 1, 2021)

I have same question. Please let us know if anyone gets concrete information on this.


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## Osama23 (10 mo ago)

So if u consider online time as working hour then I'm using both Uber and Lyft and until I get a ride whether chilling at home or while sitting in the car both of the apps are online simultaneouly until I get a ride on one app. If being online is considered as working then how can I justify this thing? Because even if I'm trying to keep my online hours below 20 it's still gonna be more than 20 adding up hours from 2 different applications which might have diff number of online and working hours. It's so confusing this way. There should be some kind of evaluation so we are not the ones blamed in the end.


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