# Whining cause Uber stinks!



## J. D.

It's appalling as I read through this at just how uneducated and ignorant are so may drivers. I just read one idiot driver who said "I'm rolling in the dough and the numbers don't lie".

Here's the numbers, REAL NUMBERS.

My last weekend:

$336.85 payout
23.3 hours
48 trips

Actual mileage = 511

HERE' THE REAL MONEY:

$336.85 
IRS mileage- 291.27 _(No_te: IRS mileage rate is NOT calculated for Uber but for indivuals who travel from one location to another for business. It does NOT take into account excess costs for damage to interior by passengers, or door dings caused by passengers opening doors into objects, or for the extra costs in water or other items given to passengers, ALL OF WHICH I'VE HAD. Actual cost will be MORE for Uber drivers.)

MY REAL NET PAY = $45.58 OR $1.95 PER HOUR.

Uber has figure out a way to steal your TIME or your CAR and you give it to them with a smile!


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## Lawrence III

That sucks for you man, I'm sorry.

I drove 11 trips last week (I'm only doing this PT) and made $120 in the end, after Uber took it's cut. Not much an hour, but it's better than anything else I'd be doing at 1am on a saturday.


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## cybertec69

Lawrence III said:


> That sucks for you man, I'm sorry.
> 
> I drove 11 trips last week (I'm only doing this PT) and made $120 in the end, after Uber took it's cut. Not much an hour, but it's better than anything else I'd be doing at 1am on a saturday.


Like sleeping and resting your body, you know that thing people do at 1 AM, you might live a bit longer, you have no problem selling your soul to Uber. And of course you did not take into account the wear and tear on the car, fuel and everything else associated with this bottomless job, some people just can't or don't want to see past their own feet.


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## J. D.

Lawrence III said:


> That sucks for you man, I'm sorry.
> 
> I drove 11 trips last week (I'm only doing this PT) and made $120 in the end, after Uber took it's cut. Not much an hour, but it's better than anything else I'd be doing at 1am on a saturday.


As long as you know you are donating your car OR working for free, it's cool. It's actually a fun part time gig and would be great if it were any real money to be made. My rant is to the idiots who THINK they are making money. My guess? It's a freeloader using daddy's car and daddy is taking the hit.


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## Lawrence III

cybertec69 said:


> Like sleeping and resting your body, you know that thing people do at 1 AM, you might live a bit longer, you have no problem selling your soul to Uber. And of course you did not take into account the wear and tear on the car, fuel and everything else associated with this bottomless job, some people just can't or don't want to see past their own feet.





J. D. said:


> As long as you know you are donating your car OR working for free, it's cool. It's actually a fun part time gig and would be great if it were any real money to be made. My rant is to the idiots who THINK they are making money. My guess? It's a freeloader using daddy's car and daddy is taking the hit.


I work as a freelance designer. I've never had normal hours. 1am is nothing new, neither is sleeping in till 10am the next day.

Car just passed inspection without work needing to be done. So I'm $30 down this year so far. I understand the wear and tear happens. But that's a general fact about driving no matter what you're doing. If you're smart about it you can get a car that can handle high miles, has better gas milage and hopefully you're smart enough to know how to change your oil, brakes and other common repairs, to really save some money.

In fact, I do take into account the wear and tear on my car. I track milage and money spent on gas. I'm sorry but despite your claims, I have made money.


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## J. D.

Lawrence III said:


> I work as a freelance designer. I've never had normal hours. 1am is nothing new, neither is sleeping in till 10am the next day.
> 
> Car just passed inspection without work needing to be done. So I'm $30 down this year so far. I understand the wear and tear happens. But that's a general fact about driving no matter what you're doing. If you're smart about it you can get a car that can handle high miles, has better gas milage and hopefully you're smart enough to know how to change your oil, brakes and other common repairs, to really save some money.
> 
> In fact, I do take into account the wear and tear on my car. I track milage and money spent on gas. I'm sorry but despite your claims, I have made money.


So YOU are the ONE! The ONLY UberX driver that made money.

When you change your own oil, your time is worthless, right? When you do your own repairs, your time is also worthless, right? Every mile you put on your car depreciates its value but it's not directly in your pocket, do you calculate that? If you wash your own car, once again, your time is worthless? Did you purchase the additional insurance so your car is covered when a pax is NOT in the car? No? Have a accident and see how fast your insurance company says NO.

Read the thread title! There's so much more to consider than your gas and your own worthless time. Uber thanks you for your donation of your time!


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## Brady

It all depends on markets, vehicle, guarantees and surges. I drive in Grand Rapids and Chicago using a pre-owned Prius. In Grand Rapids, my operating costs (depreciation, gas, & maintenance) average $.34 for every $1 I earn for Uber. In Chicago, they average $.27. 

In Grand Rapids due to our current guarantees, I've averaged over $10 per ride the past two weeks. Uber has paid me more in guarantees than I've made in commission and Safe Rider fees for them. Without the guarantees, I'd be making well below Michigan's minimum wage even with a Prius. Because we only have 1 ride per hour minimum for the guarantees and demand is relatively low, I spend the majority of my time on-line doing things other than driving including housework, Facebooking, relaxing with a good book, etc.

Driving in Chicago on weekends, I average $19/hour after Uber's share and my operating costs are subtracted. Driving in Chicago is near constant due to the very high demand.

Both of these markets work for me because I use different strategies in driving in them. In addition, my IRS mileage deduction not only erases my entire federal tax obligation on Uber earnings, but it also reduces my federal tax obligation from my main job.

Along with the very low income taxes I pay on Uber income, my operating costs are also significantly lower than those of most other small businesses. The other benefit of driving for Uber is that it's a very easy job, requires no formal training or education other than a drivers licenses, I choose my own hours to be on-line, and there's a guaranteed weekly payout.

I've never understood why people complain about driving for Uber. If you can't make it work for you, simply don't do it. I tried my hand at real estate once and it didn't work for me so I quit it. I didn't ***** about all the hours I put in for clients I didn't end up getting a commission on, the huge up front costs to becoming a Realtor or the $100+ monthly fees I had to pay my broker. If you think Uber is bad as a part-time job, try working real estate part-time. If that doesn't work for you, try opening a small business part-time or working in food service part time. Uber, by comparison, can be a very good way to earn some extra spending money provided the driver is smart about how she/he does it and understands the math -particularly vehicle depreciation.


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## Lidman

A lot weighs in on what city/rates you're driving in. For example if you drive in Lexington, KY, that's around .70/mile. If you're lucky enough to live near the Hamptons (Long Island, NY) it's 3.35/mile.


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## J. D.

Brady said:


> Driving in Chicago on weekends, I average $19/hour after Uber's share and my operating costs are subtracted. Driving in Chicago is near constant due to the very high demand.
> 
> Both of these markets work for me because I use different strategies in driving in them. In addition, my IRS mileage deduction not only erases my entire federal tax obligation on Uber earnings, but it also reduces my federal tax obligation from my main job.
> 
> I've never understood why people complain about driving for Uber. If you can't make it work for you, simply don't do it. I tried my hand at real estate once and it didn't work for me so I quit it. I didn't ***** about all the hours I put in for clients I didn't end up getting a commission on, the huge up front costs to becoming a Realtor or the $100+ monthly fees I had to pay my broker. If you think Uber is bad as a part-time job, try working real estate part-time. If that doesn't work for you, try opening a small business part-time or working in food service part time. Uber, by comparison, can be a very good way to earn some extra spending money provided the driver is smart about how she/he does it and understands the math -particularly vehicle depreciation.


You hit 2 nails with this post. First, you contradict yourself. You make $19/hr but after your IRS deduction, you made NO money. In fact, according to your own statement above, you LOST money driving for Uber and got a tax credit against your real job. Nice!

Driving for Uber is fun. The flexibility it offers is the only true perk. But your great advice; "if you can't make money, go do something else," which is exactly what I'm doing.

Once again, Uber thanks you for your donation.


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## J. D.

Lidman said:


> A lot weighs in on what city/rates you're driving in. For example if you drive in Lexington, KY, that's around .70/mile. If you're lucky enough to live near the Hamptons (Long Island, NY) it's 3.35/mile.


You're absolutely right. There are a few locations where you can actually make money. But very few. Of the tens of thousands of drivers, how many do you suppose work in those locations?


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## Lawrence III

J. D. said:


> So YOU are the ONE! The ONLY UberX driver that made money.
> 
> When you change your own oil, your time is worthless, right? When you do your own repairs, your time is also worthless, right? Every mile you put on your car depreciates its value but it's not directly in your pocket, do you calculate that? If you wash your own car, once again, your time is worthless? Did you purchase the additional insurance so your car is covered when a pax is NOT in the car? No? Have a accident and see how fast your insurance company says NO.
> 
> Read the thread title! There's so much more to consider than your gas and your own worthless time. Uber thanks you for your donation of your time!


You are either one angry guy or one extremely anal guy if you are that upset over time spent on changing oil or other repairs. Remember I have to drive my car for other reason beyond Uber, so in fact I find my time spent on repairs to be quite financially cost efficient and well worth my time. If you think I'm going to take into account the amount of rubber that wore off my tire during that last Uber ride, you're crazy. I hope you don't do that with your life in general, you probably won't like the outcome.

I did read the title and you sure are acting like an idiot. I'll say it again and if you're too worked up to read it, then it's not my problem: I do the math and I'm making money.


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## Lawrence III

But Uber People thanks you for creating a profile today just to come on here and *****. You could have better spent your time making up all the money you lost from Uber.


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## gman

J. D. said:


> It's appalling as I read through this at just how uneducated and ignorant are so may drivers. I just read one idiot driver who said "I'm rolling in the dough and the numbers don't lie".
> 
> Here's the numbers, REAL NUMBERS.
> 
> My last weekend:
> 
> $336.85 payout
> 23.3 hours
> 48 trips
> 
> Actual mileage = 511
> 
> HERE' THE REAL MONEY:
> 
> $336.85
> IRS mileage- 291.27 _(No_te: IRS mileage rate is NOT calculated for Uber but for indivuals who travel from one location to another for business. It does NOT take into account excess costs for damage to interior by passengers, or door dings caused by passengers opening doors into objects, or for the extra costs in water or other items given to passengers, ALL OF WHICH I'VE HAD. Actual cost will be MORE for Uber drivers.)
> 
> MY REAL NET PAY = $45.58 OR $1.95 PER HOUR.
> 
> Uber has figure out a way to steal your TIME or your CAR and you give it to them with a smile!


All true except your actual cost per mile, assuming you are driving a sub compact getting 30+ mpg, should work out to about half the IRS rate. Redoing the calculations works out to be about $8/hr. Not great, but you are making money.


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## Lidman

J. D. said:


> You're absolutely right. There are a few locations where you can actually make money. But very few. Of the tens of thousands of drivers, how many do you suppose work in those locations?


I have no idea. But even the areas that have decent rates are subjected to rate cuts. I'm certain a lot of uberx'er didn't sign up for uber at rates less then a $1. Uber doesn't give much (or any) notice when they're going to be cut.

I thought about driving x for Cedar Rapids, Ia,at $2/mile, but most likely the more drivers sign up, I'm certain uber will slash them as well. The only reason it's still at $2 is because there's very few drivers there.


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## J. D.

Lawrence III said:


> You are either one angry guy


You got me there. I'm PO'd at Uber and their extremely deceptive marketing and operations. I hate to see the little guys get taken advantage by $billion companies all the while being told they are earning great money! Lies. I'm PO'd at the little guys for not taking a stand. For "believing" in the Uber lies and parading it like chearleaders. It stops Uber from actually making real change.

I've driven several weekends and enjoy it. But the pay is FAR from anything Uber stated. There are so many law-suits underway against Uber now, I'm sure things will eventually change. But for now, I contend that Uber figured out a way to steal the cars from the unsuspecting and the uneducated with deception. Once again, Uber thanks you for your donation.

By the way, the point is that your time is WORTH lots and you are donating it to Uber freely. It is an illusion that you are lowering your operating costs when you don't calculate your time into the equation. I spent about 3 hours preparing to drive, you know, getting water, washing, vacuuming, etc....how much did I earn from that? As I said before, there is so much more than just gas.


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## Brady

J. D. said:


> You hit 2 nails with this post. First, you contradict yourself. You make $19/hr but after your IRS deduction, you made NO money. In fact, according to your own statement above, you LOST money driving for Uber and got a tax credit against your real job. Nice!
> 
> Driving for Uber is fun. The flexibility it offers is the only true perk. But your great advice; "if you can't make money, go do something else," which is exactly what I'm doing.
> 
> Once again, Uber thanks you for your donation.


No, what I said is my IRS mileage deduction erases by federal tax obligation. That is very different than saying I made no money.


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## J. D.

gman said:


> All true except your actual cost per mile, assuming you are driving a sub compact getting 30+ mpg, should work out to about half the IRS rate. Redoing the calculations works out to be about $8/hr. Not great, but you are making money.


Geez...

No, no, and no. Why are you assuming anything?

No subcompact. I didn't go out and buy a car just for Uber. I'm working PT with the family minivan.

No, even a subcompact won't get 30+ miles driving in town and idling between rides. (Okay, maybe a Prius but unless you already own one...)

NO, the IRS rate is TOO LOW for Uber. IRS rate is not calculated with all of the start/stops picking up passengers, the extra wear on your interior from passengers, the damage caused by hundreds of people entering, exiting, the extra repairs needed, the extra insurance, ..... Your actual OPERATING rate will be higher than the IRS rate. Why would you even think of using half?


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## Actionjax

I love when we see a rehash of the same old complaint.

I too have made money doing Uber. The keys to the claim are the following.

1) Your market! You need good rates to begin with. There are some markets I don't know how they do it. (Neither does Uber when I have spoken with them on it)
2) Your expenses. Be real about your expenses. I dispute the IRS figures as being gospel. They are fat on their evaluations as they are subject to the national average. And most cars in America are SUV/Mini Vans. Most Uber cars are something of the compact variety.
3) Part Time vs. Full time. When you can pick the best hours you can pick the best earn times. Most full timers get stuck working some of the worst hours to earn. It's unavoidable and it lowers your income per hour.
4) Reduce your Dead miles. Drop, Stop and wait. It's not worth driving around burning away your miles.

Just my 2 cents worth


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## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> Geez...
> 
> No, no, and no. Why are you assuming anything?
> 
> No subcompact. I didn't go out and buy a car just for Uber. I'm working PT with the family minivan.
> 
> No, even a subcompact won't get 30+ miles driving in town and idling between rides. (Okay, maybe a Prius but unless you already own one...)
> 
> NO, the IRS rate is TOO LOW for Uber. IRS rate is not calculated with all of the start/stops picking up passengers, the extra wear on your interior from passengers, the damage caused by hundreds of people entering, exiting, the extra repairs needed, the extra insurance, ..... Your actual OPERATING rate will be higher than the IRS rate. Why would you even think of using half?


What extra insurance are you paying? You need insurance to even drive regardless of Uber.


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## J. D.

Lawrence III said:


> But Uber People thanks you for creating a profile today just to come on here and *****. You could have better spent your time making up all the money you lost from Uber.


Yep!

I love the concept and have enjoyed driving. I feel foolish after getting paid based on Uber marketing deception. I would love to drive for Uber but the money just isn't there.


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## Brady

J. D. said:


> Geez...
> 
> No, no, and no. Why are you assuming anything?
> 
> No subcompact. I didn't go out and buy a car just for Uber. I'm working PT with the family minivan.
> 
> No, even a subcompact won't get 30+ miles driving in town and idling between rides. (Okay, maybe a Prius but unless you already own one...)
> 
> NO, the IRS rate is TOO LOW for Uber. IRS rate is not calculated with all of the start/stops picking up passengers, the extra wear on your interior from passengers, the damage caused by hundreds of people entering, exiting, the extra repairs needed, the extra insurance, ..... Your actual OPERATING rate will be higher than the IRS rate. Why would you even think of using half?


I can't imagine using a minivan to do UberX unless you're signed up for UberXL and are in a market where you're consistently getting primarily XL rides or a market with very high rates, high guarantees, or constant surges.

You don't have enough experience driving for Uber yet after a couple weekends to make an accurate assessment of the true operating costs of driving.

My Prius averages 45.6 MPG. I bought it pre-owned off a lease like I have with all my past vehicles. The depreciation on buying a new car is ridiculously high.


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## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> What extra insurance are you paying? You need insurance to even drive regardless of Uber.


It's one of those things Uber fails to tell you. Talk to your insurance agent. Ask if you have an accident while using your personal car for commercial purposes if they will pay.

I'm already aware of several who got denied claims because they didn't purchase the additional personal coverage needed for their Uber use. Now they just have wrecked cars with no insurance. And do you think Uber will pay? Uber's commercial insurance only applies when a passenger is in the car.


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## limepro

I feel bad for the people that can't figure it out, I do this part time between $1-200 a week, mostly surges. Last week I did 6 hours $112 take home total mileage including heading home 89 miles and $6 in gas. I only did mon-wed last week. This week I'm at $60 only worked Monday and did 32 miles including dead miles.

In between rides my car doesn't idle, why would it when it costs me money?


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## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> I love when we see a rehash of the same old complaint.
> 
> I too have made money doing Uber. The keys to the claim are the following.
> 
> 1) Your market! You need good rates to begin with. There are some markets I don't know how they do it. (Neither does Uber when I have spoken with them on it)
> 2) Your expenses. Be real about your expenses. I dispute the IRS figures as being gospel. They are fat on their evaluations as they are subject to the national average. And most cars in America are SUV/Mini Vans. Most Uber cars are something of the compact variety.
> 3) Part Time vs. Full time. When you can pick the best hours you can pick the best earn times. Most full timers get stuck working some of the worst hours to earn. It's unavoidable and it lowers your income per hour.
> 4) Reduce your Dead miles. Drop, Stop and wait. It's not worth driving around burning away your miles.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth


Actionjax - you have valid points even if they are a bit flawed.

Unless I'm willing to move, my market is what it is. This is my point. Uber should set reasonable rates everywhere. Passengers love Uber. They would pay near taxi rates to use Uber.

I dispute the IRS rates too because my actual is much higher. I'm driving a minivan. In just a few weekends, I've already gotten 2 door dings (big ones), ruined floor mats, broken seat belt cover, and my normal mileage has dropped significantly due to idling (it's been cold). My car has taken a true beating. Much worse than when I was getting mileage from my previous employer for true travel. Now I agree the rate can be fat for that salesman driving Interstate from one city to the next, no passengers, no start/stop, no idling, etc.

I thought being able to pick my hours was one of the best things about Uber. But I was wrong. I don't get to pick, I have to work the worst hours to make any money. You know 2 am picking up drunks. Not what I thought I would be doing according to Uber's marketing.

Dead head miles? Do you kick the pax out when they want to go somewhere you know there will be no rides back? Don't know how to work that one. But I agree, dead head miles are just lost.


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## Brady

LAndreas said:


> J.D.
> What possible good do you expect to come out of this thread for your situation?


Like many people who post here about not making money from Uber, his intent is likely to discourage others to drive for Uber based on a number of various motivations (taxi driver, wants less competition from other drivers, doesn't have a vehicle/market that works for him and is frustrated that others do, is upset because he believed Uber's hype without doing the math first, etc).


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## J. D.

LAndreas said:


> J.D.
> What possible good do you expect to come out of this thread for your situation?


You are right. Nothing I say here will change anything.


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## limepro

I did it full time until I picked up my marketing job again, picking your hours is the key. I would do early morning 4am til it slowed, then I would go home take a nap, have lunch with my kids, etc. Then head back out around 3pm until it got slow again head home have dinner with the family and head back out again for a couple hours go home rinse and repeat and easily clear $700 a week driving less than 40 hours as I didn't drive weekends unless there was a surge going on in my home territory.


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## J. D.

Brady said:


> Like many people who post here about not making money from Uber, his intent is likely to discourage others to drive for Uber based on a number of various motivations (taxi driver, wants less competition from other drivers, doesn't have a vehicle/market that works for him and is frustrated that others do, is upset because he believed Uber's hype without doing the math first, etc).


Yes, I feel foolish believing in Uber's hype. Had no "math" to run before trying, hype sounded wonderful. But I'm frustrating because the hype won't change when there are Uber driver's cheerleading the hype. If drivers would stick together, real change could be made. I'm not foolish enough to think that will happen. It's only the small groups that get the class-action lawsuits underway that actually make change.


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## J. D.

limepro said:


> I feel bad for the people that can't figure it out, I do this part time between $1-200 a week, mostly surges. Last week I did 6 hours $112 take home total mileage including heading home 89 miles and $6 in gas. I only did mon-wed last week. This week I'm at $60 only worked Monday and did 32 miles including dead miles.
> 
> In between rides my car doesn't idle, why would it when it costs me money?


Sounds like you're in one of those really good markets we discussed. Congrats. It's not about figuring it out, it's about your market.


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## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> Yes, I feel foolish believing in Uber's hype. Had no "math" to run before trying, hype sounded wonderful. But I'm frustrating because the hype won't change when there are Uber driver's cheerleading the hype. If drivers would stick together, real change could be made. I'm not foolish enough to think that will happen. It's only the small groups that get the class-action lawsuits underway that actually make change.


Don't feel foolish. Everyone who believed the hype when they first heard it had delusions of grandeur. But let's face it it's not you it's how Uber plays your market. Sorry for your situation. I would be pissed too if I found out after the math didn't work.


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## limepro

J. D. said:


> Sounds like you're in one of those really good markets we discussed. Congrats. It's not about figuring it out, it's about your market.


The market sucks here at .95 a mile and a ton of drivers that have no clue what they are doing. I see them driving around all day on the rider app and those are the times I don't drive unless demand is there, learning those times and places are the key.


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## J. D.

LAndreas said:


> J.D.
> May I suggest a follow-on post with the title "J.D. is an idiot"? Please don't forget to post how uneducated and ignorant J.D. comes across as, for calling other drivers out for his own frustrations.
> You've made a good point that your driving is not getting you to where you want to be. So instead of rational follow through on that realization (which is quitting to Uber and move on to something worthwhile for you to do), you post a thread that marks you as a whining and *****ing weakling?
> What possible good do you expect to come out of this thread for your situation?


I do feel like an idiot for believing the Uber hype. So I should tuck my tail between my legs and just slink away? That's exactly what every $billion company would like to see when they are taking advantage of their "employees". It is a fact, not opinion, that Uber has cut their rates drastically and have done so at the expense of the driver. Uber didn't cut their take. That's just wrong. Who is going to stand up and say so?

What truly gets me PO'd is the Uber drivers who sit back and cheerlead this action without any realization that they are encouraging this behavior from Uber.

I like the concept and would love to drive if there were any real money to be made. Uber is in total control and they are victimizing drivers just like the sweatshops did back in the early 1900s prior to unions.


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## cybertec69

Lawrence III said:


> I work as a freelance designer. I've never had normal hours. 1am is nothing new, neither is sleeping in till 10am the next day.
> 
> Car just passed inspection without work needing to be done. So I'm $30 down this year so far. I understand the wear and tear happens. But that's a general fact about driving no matter what you're doing. If you're smart about it you can get a car that can handle high miles, has better gas milage and hopefully you're smart enough to know how to change your oil, brakes and other common repairs, to really save some money.
> 
> In fact, I do take into account the wear and tear on my car. I track milage and money spent on gas. I'm sorry but despite your claims, I have made money.


Your typical Uber driver, saying he made money, yes working at BK, you also make money, the same as Uber, but don't destroy your car, it's geniuses like yourself that keeps Uber churning those wheels, and constantly cutting the rates, because no matter how low the rates will go, it's geniuses like yourself that always make money, LOL. I have another question for you, if you get in a wreck doing Uber Taxi work, ask your car insurance company if they will cover you and the pax and the other motorist, I hope you don't own a house, God forbid something serious happens, you are shit out of luck, that pax and their lawyer will clean you out, you won't know what hit you, but of course you have all the bases covered.


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## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> Don't feel foolish. Everyone who believed the hype when they first heard it had delusions of grandeur. But let's face it it's not you it's how Uber plays your market. Sorry for your situation. I would be pissed too if I found out after the math didn't work.


I had never heard of Uber until a few months ago. An email stated, "Earn $1,500 your first weekend driving for Uber. Be your own boss". Took weeks to get approved. Finally, worked my @$$ off that first weekend, 12 hour days non-stop. My pay? $400. That included a $50 bonus for being my first weekend. Really?


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## J. D.

LAndreas said:


> Probably not any of the "idiots" you just called ignorant and uneducated. Not alongside you, anyway.


Okay, maybe too much of a generalization. But Uber rates would change if it weren't true for the cheerleaders. Many drivers would not accept being taken advantage of and would not drive. I will admit, when I get angry, I go overboard with generalizations. I'm angry at Uber and the Uber cheerleaders. Even like me, I will likely drive again because even if it is a horrible waste of time, it is still cash. I know I'm trading my car for cash and basically working for nothing, but it is still cash. Until I can get other revenue sources, it's still cash. But I won't do it for long at the current rates.

If my rants ever make a difference in getting Uber drivers paid better, will you still think so badly of me? Are you opposed to making more money?


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## J. D.

LAndreas said:


> I have a timeshare to sell you, a Herbalife franchise to take over, and an Online Course for you to enroll in to gain the tools to overcome any of life's difficulties and achieve a more fulfilling and happier life. Message me for details!


You are just too funny!


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## Actionjax

Your not an employee. You are not being forced into it. You bought on hype. Next time you just need to read the fine print better. One shift on Uber and I knew the hype was bogus.


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## J. D.

Brady said:


> I can't imagine using a minivan to do UberX unless you're signed up for UberXL and are in a market where you're consistently getting primarily XL rides or a market with very high rates, high guarantees, or constant surges.
> 
> Okay, so here are the facts: UberXL has a higher rate but after Uber's additional 8%fee, my additional costs for extra water and coffee (yes, I serve coffee), the additional wear on my interior and seats, the additional costs of wear and of fuel for carrying extra weight (more passengers and stuff, yes, bikes, BBQ grill, groceries, etc.), I earn LESS with UberXL than UberX.
> 
> When I asked Uber why they charged the extra 8% and what was their extra costs, they ignored me. Many emails. Ignored!!! Insert dirty word of choice.


----------



## limepro

J.D. did you drive prior to the rate cuts? If not who are you to complain about cuts, you signed up under the current rates as you said you only heard about it a few months ago.


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## J. D.

LAndreas said:


> I took offense at you going after your fellow Uber drivers, the weakest links in the chain, and calling them idiots. I know you've self labeled yourself one by doing so, because after all, you're an Uber driver yourself. But with this last post, you've eviscerated any shred of credibility you might seek to preserve: in effect, you're admitting to planning to continue with the kind of behavior you claim to deplore in other Uber drivers.


Offense? Good. Drivers are absolutely NOT the weakest link, but the strongest. Without drivers, there is no Uber. An no, I don't despise drivers. The issue is with drivers who brag that they are making bank! When a driver cheerleads for the Uber hype, they perpetuate the problem of low/no pay.

Yes, I feel like an idiot believing in the Uber hype. I think you've missed my point though in the last comment. I was stating that, like me, there could be drivers in a situation where they have to continue driving until they can get something better, or are urging Uber to raise rates, so generalization is wrong of me. Many people see that they are trading their car for cash and working for free. Those are not the ones who I am addressing because they don't cheerlead for the Uber hype. I, on the other hand, have experienced the flaws in the system and am already working on something better and may never drive for Uber again. If my efforts cause you to make more money as a driver, will you still complain about my actions?

Good luck in your Uber career. You'll need it.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> J.D. did you drive prior to the rate cuts? If not who are you to complain about cuts, you signed up under the current rates as you said you only heard about it a few months ago.





Actionjax said:


> Your not an employee. You are not being forced into it. You bought on hype. Next time you just need to read the fine print better. One shift on Uber and I knew the hype was bogus.


Yes, I realize I am not officially an employee (which may change if some of the current lawsuits prevail). I did buy into the hype, too much. I was counting on Uber to help get me through a little financial rough patch in my life. Once I did the calculations and realized how Uber is preying on inexperienced people in the industry, and profiting exuberantly from it, manipulating the numbers, it just made me so angry. I felt betrayed. But why can't everyone see the flaws in their system? Like you, it didn't take long and it seems so obvious now.


----------



## UberHammer

Uber is a borderline MLM. The money earned referring people to drive and ride is better than what can be earned providing the service.

Given the referral fees only go one level deep, it's not technically a Multi Level Marketing (MLM) company. Is there such a thing as a Single Level Marketing (SLM) company, because that's what Uber is. We all know damn well that Randy Shear makes more in referrals than he does driving for Uber. As much flack as he takes here, he is the smartest one in the bunch. He's working Uber the profitable way, while those still trying to earn money by driving ***** and moan.


----------



## Lidman

Brady said:


> Like many people who post here about not making money from Uber, his intent is likely to discourage others to drive for Uber based on a number of various motivations (taxi driver, wants less competition from other drivers, doesn't have a vehicle/market that works for him and is frustrated that others do, is upset because he believed Uber's hype without doing the math first, etc).


I respectfully disagree. Some of us may be legitimately warning newcomers to beware of some of the pitfulls of uber/lyft, and also with cab companies as well. There are some here that still/used to driver for uber, made pretty good money until all the drastic rate cuts set. I just merely warn newcomers to watch out for that sort of thing.


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## J. D.

You are


LAndreas said:


> This is your last sentence from your initial post:
> "Uber has figure out a way to steal your TIME or your CAR and you give it to them with a smile!"
> 
> Replace the "you" and "your" with "I" and "mine", and you're hitting the nail on the head.


Yes, you are right and it has P-me-O more than you can imagine that I was suckered in the first place. I don't usually let that happen to me.

The big difference is that I'm not on here bragging that "I figure it out" and "I'm making big bucks." I am NOT continuing with Uber. I refuse to destroy my car for them. The concept however is genius and sound and I would like to drive because I enjoy it and if they CHANGE rates and stop the hype, maybe I'll consider it in the future, with a different car.

Uber already has enough lawsuits currently against them to enact big changes. I expect many will prevail and you'll see those changes happen. I didn't bring on a single one, yet. It was others so I'm know I'm not alone in my perceptions.

Uber is a multi-Billion dollar company preying on the uneducated and financially inexperienced to make themselves stinking rich with DECEPTIVE marketing practices. It's plain wrong. If you can't see that and want to continue to brag up Uber, we have nothing to discuss.


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## Lidman

UberHammer said:


> Uber is a borderline MLM. The money earned referring people to drive and ride is better than what can be earned providing the service.
> 
> Given the referral fees only go one level deep, it's not technically a Multi Level Marketing (MLM) company. Is there such a thing as a Single Level Marketing (SLM) company, because that's what Uber is. We all know damn well that Randy Shear makes more in referrals than he does driving for Uber. As much flack as he takes here, he is the smartest one in the bunch. He's working Uber the profitable way, while those still trying to earn money by driving ***** and moan.


Spot on Hammer!!!!


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## J. D.

UberHammer said:


> Uber is a borderline MLM. The money earned referring people to drive and ride is better than what can be earned providing the service.
> 
> Given the referral fees only go one level deep, it's not technically a Multi Level Marketing (MLM) company. Is there such a thing as a Single Level Marketing (SLM) company, because that's what Uber is. We all know damn well that Randy Shear makes more in referrals than he does driving for Uber. As much flack as he takes here, he is the smartest one in the bunch. He's working Uber the profitable way, while those still trying to earn money by driving ***** and moan.


That's an interesting take on things!

I realize that Uber's current marketing ploy is to draw in riders with very low rates all while churning drivers (constant recruiting/dropping out). Drivers are disposable in their current marketing plan. But I could actually earn more money recruiting drivers than driving because it fits.

Hmmm.....


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## J. D.

Brady said:


> No, what I said is my IRS mileage deduction erases by federal tax obligation. That is very different than saying I made no money.


So Brady, I'm just curious and you don't have to answer (I probably wouldn't). When you filed your taxes, how much did you tell the IRS you "made" from driving for Uber?


----------



## ldriva

Actionjax said:


> I love when we see a rehash of the same old complaint.
> 
> I too have made money doing Uber. The keys to the claim are the following.
> 
> 1) Your market! You need good rates to begin with. There are some markets I don't know how they do it. (Neither does Uber when I have spoken with them on it)
> 2) Your expenses. Be real about your expenses. I dispute the IRS figures as being gospel. They are fat on their evaluations as they are subject to the national average. And most cars in America are SUV/Mini Vans. Most Uber cars are something of the compact variety.
> 3) Part Time vs. Full time. When you can pick the best hours you can pick the best earn times. Most full timers get stuck working some of the worst hours to earn. It's unavoidable and it lowers your income per hour.
> 4) Reduce your Dead miles. Drop, Stop and wait. It's not worth driving around burning away your miles.
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth


I do this part-time. I make $350-$500 working on average 15-20 hours between Fridays and Saturdays. Time-wise it's pretty efficient. I only drive during busy hours. I put about 250 miles per week driving. I totally agree for not driving for passengers. I do not do that anymore unless someone forces me to drive to the suburbs (which I can't). I hate the mileage but this is a temporary gig until things get better in my business.


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## J. D.

ldriva said:


> I do this part-time. I make $350-$500 working on average 15-20 hours between Fridays and Saturdays. Time-wise it's pretty efficient. I only drive during busy hours. I put about 250 miles per week driving. I totally agree for not driving for passengers. I do not do that anymore unless someone forces me to drive to the suburbs (which I can't). I hate the mileage but this is a temporary gig until things get better in my business.


Hey I've said many times, even if you realize you are just trading your car for cash and working for free, it's still cash until you can get other revenue.

I've had to sell property at a loss just to get cash. Didn't want to.

That doesn't change the fact that Uber is a multi-billion dollar corporation preying on the inexperienced and uneducated to make themselves stinking rich with deceptive marketing practices and manipulation of the numbers.

The uneducated continue to be prey. Uber prey.


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## Brady

J. D. said:


> So Brady, I'm just curious and you don't have to answer (I probably wouldn't). When you filed your taxes, how much did you tell the IRS you "made" from driving for Uber?


I submitted my 1099 form information. I actually failed to deduct the Safe Rider Fees so I overstated my Uber income. But due to the mileage deduction, I had a negative federal tax liability due to driving for Uber.


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## J. D.

Brady said:


> I submitted my 1099 form information. I actually failed to deduct the Safe Rider Fees so I overstated my Uber income. But due to the mileage deduction, I had a negative federal tax liability due to driving for Uber.


Aha! So the way I see it is you mistakenly believe the IRS is just foolish in their mileage assessment and generously offering you a substantial amount more deduction that what's real. That makes so much sense, right? The wonderful generous IRS. I hear that all the time.

I have the spreadsheet ready for the lawsuit. The TRUE operating cost for driving with Uber is much higher than the IRS allowance. The IRS allowance doesn't factor in the increased costs of repair to doors & latches, upholstery, carpeting, idling engines (no mileage but still wear because of cold and hot weather, waiting for passengers) for hundreds of people entering and exiting your vehicle, the excess wear on tires, brakes, and suspension for carrying excess weight, and the additional body damaged caused by careless passengers.

What would normally take 20 years to reach end-of-life stage on your car, is now getting there in 2 years.

Uber drivers are being taken advantage of by their sheer ignorance to hidden costs that they themselves are bearing. Uber knows this and is exploiting it with their deceptive recruitment advertisements.

The folks at Uber are genius in the calculations but they are no better than the sweat shops of the early 1900s getting stinking rich at the expense of the drivers.

But hey, if you enjoy making a multi-billion dollar corporation even more weathly by donating your time or car, go for it!


----------



## limepro

I think it's funny that he fails to see that he is the main problem. I have said it many times, uber is a shitty company that I wish on no one, that doesn't mean some people can't make money.

There are those that do it in a car that already has 100k+ miles, their expenses are only gas and repairs as depreciation is nil at that point.

Those that do it part time in order to offset other income like with some of is we use it as a tax write off, at the end of the year I normally owe money or break even and I have 2 deductible humans but it still isn't enough. If I can show a loss at the end of the year even while putting money in my bank account it is a win-win situation for me. And I'm not worried about depreciation on my car, I am still well below the normal annual mileage even while ubering. Just to give you an idea, I have a 2004 truck with 62k miles on it.

Those that only drive surges if and only if their area surges on a regular basis and they don't chase surges. Where my house is surges on a regular basis during the time I drive, certain times during the week I go to a specific area about 4 miles from my house that I always get a 2.8-4x surge and I usually catch a ride there from my house.
The OPs biggest problem is he started with a horrible car to begin with and was doing X rides. If you had just sat home logged in to take xl only you may have made a little bit of money. If you turned your car off between pings and not burn gas between idles or troll around adding miles and burning gas, the only way to do it is park and wait no matter how boring. Doing it full time in a single shift also doesn't work, only drive busiest hours, people going to airport early morning, work mid morning, leaving work afternoon and on weekends going to and leaving bars and of course if anything is happening with a large group of people.

Also where you live matters I can drive an hour and a half south and rates go from .95 to 1.80, I haven't tried it yet but if I'm bored one day I may.

Your problem is you are putting your inadequacies on everyone else with blanket statements.


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## johnywinslow

This whole argument boils down to full time drivers vs part time drivers. Uber is great if you want to add 200.00 a week to your slush fund! do it when and how you want, and its USUALY easy to do in just 8-12 hours over fri sat and sun. (except last weekend...ouch) But to do this full time or even as your main source of income its counter productive. Id rather deliver pizza for more money less miles. but as a pert time do as you please quick 100$ for next weekends party. Its a hard deal to beat. I have come to the conclusion that Uber does not want full time professional Uber X drivers. They want those guys driving uber black and select, it makes more money. Uber X has always been about the part time few hours a week kinda driver. Uber will not say this but the actions they take... cutting rates, raising money to support every cause in the world but yours. throwing out threats of deactivation every other week. It makes perfect sense to me.


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## Brady

J. D. said:


> Aha! So the way I see it is you mistakenly believe the IRS is just foolish in their mileage assessment and generously offering you a substantial amount more deduction that what's real. That makes so much sense, right? The wonderful generous IRS. I hear that all the time.


You need to talk to an accountant. As most Uber drivers will tell you, your IRS mileage deduction should meet or exceed your earnings from Uber. You will still need to pay state and local income taxes.


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## John Kenny

J. D. said:


> It's appalling as I read through this at just how uneducated and ignorant are so may drivers. I just read one idiot driver who said "I'm rolling in the dough and the numbers don't lie".
> 
> Here's the numbers, REAL NUMBERS.
> 
> My last weekend:
> 
> $336.85 payout
> 23.3 hours
> 48 trips
> 
> Actual mileage = 511
> 
> HERE' THE REAL MONEY:
> 
> $336.85
> IRS mileage- 291.27 _(No_te: IRS mileage rate is NOT calculated for Uber but for indivuals who travel from one location to another for business. It does NOT take into account excess costs for damage to interior by passengers, or door dings caused by passengers opening doors into objects, or for the extra costs in water or other items given to passengers, ALL OF WHICH I'VE HAD. Actual cost will be MORE for Uber drivers.)
> 
> MY REAL NET PAY = $45.58 OR $1.95 PER HOUR.
> 
> Uber has figure out a way to steal your TIME or your CAR and you give it to them with a smile!


This doesn't match up with my experience at all. I only uber. I left a high ranking position in the business world last fall because I was whooped. 15 years of 55 hour work weeks and playing counselor to subordinates who refuse to take control of their own future, made excuses and blame everyone but themselves takes a toll. 
I left the business world and didn't look back. I don't miss it. I don't miss the emails, the meetings, the endless metrics, people who "just need to vent," having a lazy boss - I don't miss it.

I won't pretend that I make as much as I used to, but a few simple economies and everything is fine. I make a sustainable, profitable living using the uber platform.

And here's how I do it: 
1. Pax are my friends. I treat them with respect. I've only had one bad experience. Not only do I treat them how I'd like to be treated, but I treat them as my customers. They're not ubers customers. They don't pay uber. All uber does is provide a platform for me and them to have an economic interaction. We both agree to ubers t&cs, and I pay uber a 20% commission (which is a valid business expense and write-off) to match us up. Fair enough.

2. I operate on a sound tried and true business method: low expense, high revenue = maximum profits. So yes, I change my own ****ing oil. $15 and 15 minutes is faster and cheaper than paying someone else to do it. Yep, I value my time, too. 
I buy a $15 a month unlimited car wash pass in my neighborhood. 
I don't chase surges. Drop one off and wait for another when possible. I roll down the windows instead of leaving the car running while waiting. 
3. I keep my outlook good, and in turn set reasonable expectations for myself. I work peak hours. I don't view time waiting for a pax as time "on-the-clock" so to speak. I read, I study (I am going to school to earn a third degree -sustainable agriculture- something completely different for me. Which, btw, I don't think I could have a bachelors, a masters, and be working on a second bachelors if I was ignorant and uneducated), I do some housework, I do some LIGHT exercise (don't want to get sweaty and then get a call). 
I have more free time than ever. 
4. I hope for the best but prepare for the worst. 
5. I don't work for uber. I'm self employed. I pay them to find me rides. I control what's going on and when it happens. I remind myself of this daily. 
6. I have a good accountant. She handles it all. All the licenses, mileage to a trip, car washes, bottled water, gum, armor all, new tires, etc. gets written off. LLCs are free in most states. Get one. If anything, if you get in a wreck and someone sues you, they can't go after your house or other assets. Everything you pay for that is related to business is a write off. Verizon bill, home office space (make one! Even if you don't use it, write it off!), Costco membership, sales tax, Advil b/c you bought it for your 7am Saturday morning walk-of-shamers!

I won't post the numbers, as so many drivers on this site insist. I feel strongly that it is uncivilized to discuss what one makes with anyone, particularly in public. So uncouth. 
But I will reiterate that I am able to contribute fairly to the family budget. I do enjoy this. That might change later, but I really hope not.

This site is a sea of unhappiness. If it sucks that bad, why do it? Get a hold of yourself, man!


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## J. D.

John Kenny said:


> This doesn't match up with my experience at all. I only uber.
> I won't pretend that I make as much as I used to, but a few simple economies and everything is fine. I make a sustainable, profitable living using the uber platform.
> 
> This site is a sea of unhappiness. If it sucks that bad, why do it? Get a hold of yourself, man!


Thank you John for your input. It is wonderful that you are happy with your choices.

It is regrettable that you've bought into the Uber lies unless this is really a joke.

1. Your riders DO pay Uber, not you. Uber handles all financial transactions. They set the rates, they set the payout, and they pay you. Yes you agree to it, but you also agree that they can change it at any time without your consent. You are not in control.
2. Great sound business plan but you have no real control of your revenue. You can work to keep your costs as low as possible. But Uber sets the rates. Currently they are too low to be profitable for a driver at any stage.
3. Bravo. Sounds like you have great future plans. I'm guessing your fields are not financially related.
4. That's a great outlook.
5. You are not truly self-employed. You are technically an Independent Contractor with is not self-employed. And even that may change soon if some of the current lawsuits prevail because Uber is hiding behind the IC status to avoid paying workers compensation, social security, medicare, and to avoid the federal and local minimum wage laws. Don't be fooled into thinking they don't know what they are doing.
6. I have one request. Go sit with your accountant next month and have her tell you EXACTLY how much profit you are making that you'll be reporting to the IRS. Not revenue, profit! Come back and let us know please.

By the way, LLCs are not free, anywhere. LLCs are limited protection...ask your/an attorney. You have a wreck, they most certainly can go after you, your home & property. Don't be fooled. Unless you've layered the companies, that is one company owns another and so on, you are listed as the officer of the LLC and can be held personally liable.

I currently own a C-corporation and an LLC.

By the way, a sea of unhappiness is a really great analogy. I hope we can change that soon. That's my goal. I may not always go about it properly, but it is still my goal.


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## John Kenny

J. D. said:


> I do feel like an idiot for believing the Uber hype. So I should tuck my tail between my legs and just slink away? That's exactly what every $billion company would like to see when they are taking advantage of their "employees". It is a fact, not opinion, that Uber has cut their rates drastically and have done so at the expense of the driver. Uber didn't cut their take. That's just wrong. Who is going to stand up and say so?
> 
> What truly gets me PO'd is the Uber drivers who sit back and cheerlead this action without any realization that they are encouraging this behavour from Uber.
> 
> I like the concept and would love to drive if there were any real money to be made. Uber is in total control and they are victimizing drivers just like the sweatshops did back in the early 1900s prior to unions.


Whoa! He reads! Sounds like someone just read that article on the gig economy.


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## J. D.

John Kenny said:


> Whoa! He reads! Sounds like someone just read that article on the gig economy.


I'll have to google the gig economy. Haven't seen that article.


----------



## J. D.

LAndreas said:


> Even if I end up not framing the post, I'll always hope that as a passenger ordering an Uber, it'll be someone like John Kenny showing up to pick me up.


I agree. He sounds like the perfect Uber driver.


----------



## J. D.

LAndreas said:


> Anything that J.D. keeps posting here is irrelevant coming from someone who castigates others for driving for peanuts, then announces he intends to Uber on for less than $2 hourly take home pay. Hypocrite if there ever was one.
> 
> This whole thread is sucking the air out of the atmosphere. Useless. My final post in this thread.


I've got what I needed. I'll be deleting the thread now. I know it was a negative outlook but it served the purpose.

Thank you for participating.


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## Mthawkins

There's a lot of butt hurt ass holes on this forum..


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## J. D.

Mthawkins said:


> There's a lot of butt hurt ass holes on this forum..


Yep. I'm one.


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## J. D.

Lawrence III said:


> That sucks for you man, I'm sorry.
> 
> I drove 11 trips last week (I'm only doing this PT) and made $120 in the end, after Uber took it's cut. Not much an hour, but it's better than anything else I'd be doing at 1am on a saturday.


Thanks Lawrence for you posts. I'm glad you are enjoying your work driving. It think it is fun. Hopefully, soon, you can make more money doing it. After all, it is the only real reason we do it.


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## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> I love when we see a rehash of the same old complaint.
> 
> I too have made money doing Uber. The keys to the claim are the following.
> Just my 2 cents worth


Thanks Actionjax for joining in with the discussion. I truly am glad that you've found a way to make driving work for you. I think it is fun. Hopefully, soon, you'll be able to make more money doing it.


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## Lidman

J. D. said:


> Thanks Lawrence for you posts. I'm glad you are enjoying your work driving. It think it is fun. Hopefully, soon, you can make more money doing it. After all, it is the only real reason we do it.


You'll fit right into this forum. You're right about uber. it stands for "unbelieveable bullsht every ride.


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## limepro

J.D. at least you have the taxi drivers love here.


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## J. D.

Lidman said:


> You'll fit right into this forum. You're right about uber. it stands for "unbelieveable bullsht every ride.


Thanks Lidman, that's funny. Maybe we can make a change soon and we all can make money.


----------



## chi1cabby

J. D. said:


> I'll have to google the gig economy. Haven't seen that article.


Here's a compendium of some Uber articles on the gig in economy:
*Welcome to the 1099 Economy*


----------



## chi1cabby

LAndreas said:


> Based on that academic study of the Uber driver community that was released this January,


It wasn't an "academic study". It was a *Survey* paid for by Uber. And a non academic, non peer reviewed *Analysis* by Jonathan Krueger that didn't account for Drivers expenses
while making claims on Drivers earnings.
*(Edited) Uber Study: UberX Drivers Grossed $16.50/Hr (B4 Expenses) During Oct. In 20 Biggest Markets*


LAndreas said:


> the discrepancy between that study's data and the slant of most posts to this board is still enormous.


The forum has it's own ongoing Poll: 
*Ongoing Poll | How Would YOU Rate Uber?*


----------



## Lidman

J. D. said:


> Thanks Lidman, that's funny. Maybe we can make a change soon and we all can make money.


I would suggest (if you still wanna drive that is) working for a company where you don't have to concern yourself with "wear/tear" expenses for starters.


----------



## J. D.

Lidman said:


> I would suggest (if you still wanna drive that is) working for a company where you don't have to concern yourself with "wear/tear" expenses for starters.


You mean taxi, limo, private, or municipal?


----------



## chi1cabby

LAndreas said:


> Based on that *academic study *of the Uber driver community that was released this January





LAndreas said:


> *I didn't comment on the merits of that study* as it related to driver income, as I myself remembered those findings to be misleading, and also irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.


Really?
You called that Survey an *Academic Study.*
A Survey that was sent to preselected (non random) group of Drivers. 
Only ~600 Drivers participated in the survey. 
Drivers were paid by Uber for participating.
Uber refused to release the survey questionnaire to reporters.
The survey release was the eve of it's presentation by David Plouffe to U.S. Council of Mayors.

But I guess you'd rather still believe that the negative Uber sentiment prevalent on the forum is less credible than a PR job by Uber.


----------



## Lidman

J. D. said:


> You mean taxi, limo, private, or municipal?


anything that doesn't spell u-b-e-r or l-y-f-t


----------



## UberHammer

LAndreas said:


> I didn't comment on the merits of that study as it related to driver income, as I myself remembered those findings to be misleading, and also irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. But thanks for pointing out that the scope of the study did include that kind of data and analysis.


I find the 22% who were willing to respond negatively to a study, where anonymity is highly unlikely due to the payment for participation, to be a very high number.

A survey where anonymity is guaranteed would produce an even higher percentage of negative response than this study. Unless people are being paid to post here, one shouldn't expect the sentiment here to reflect that study.


----------



## Lidman

Travis definitely speaks thru certain forum members on here. It's very obvious.


----------



## chi1cabby

LAndreas said:


> The "Poll" you point to on this forum is a joke. It doesn't even define the unit of measurement.


I thought you liked Uber's 5 Star Rating System. But it's uncool for forum members to use Uber's undefined yardstick to gauge Uber itself? Okay Got It!

*Ongoing Poll | How Would YOU Rate Uber?*









I doesn't seem that you've answered this unscientific poll...no one has given 5 Stars to Uber.


----------



## Taxi Driver in Arizona

J. D. said:


> I'm angry at Uber and the Uber cheerleaders. Even like me, I will likely drive again because even if it is a horrible waste of time, it is still cash. I know I'm trading my car for cash and basically working for nothing, but it is still cash. Until I can get other revenue sources, it's still cash. But I won't do it for long at the current rates.


This is what I'll never understand. If you hate Uber so much, why would you _ever_ put another nickel in their pockets? Seriously.


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## 20yearsdriving

Livery awaits you with open arms


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## J. D.

LAndreas said:


> Anything that J.D. keeps posting here is irrelevant coming from someone who castigates others for driving for peanuts, then announces he intends to Uber on for less than $2 hourly take home pay. Hypocrite if there ever was one.
> 
> This whole thread is sucking the air out of the atmosphere. Useless. My final post in this thread.


Thank you!

You know, I've made a concerted effort on this forum to not make any personal attacks or make any pointed negative remarks toward any person in particular even though sometimes I would love to scream derogatory terms at some the really dumb posts. My issues are with Uber and the Uber cheerleaders.

I feel sorry for those that have been duped by Uber and are now stuck until they find something else. Getting another source of income is not always easy and the landlord and electric company aren't all that compassionate. I have never once "castigated other for driving for peanuts". I have however castigated those who have driven and then brag up Uber. I don't feel sorry for those who have not the sense to realize that they've been duped and get on here bragging about how much money they are making. They show their ignorance.

Right now, I have other motives toward Uber and if I chose to drive again, I promise, it is not with a profit motive because I'm well aware it doesn't exist today.

But after spending a few days reading, I've come to a conclusion. You must be an Uber shill. I know they're on here and it's the only thing that makes sense. You have not read a single post of mine and replied without adding your twisted views and interpretations. You are now officially on my ignore list. And you should feel exhalted because right now, it's a list of 1.


----------



## J. D.

20yearsdriving said:


> Livery awaits you with open arms


Thanks but I have other goals. Uber was just a wishful bandage until I learned of their deception.


----------



## J. D.

Lidman said:


> Travis definitely speaks thru certain forum members on here. It's very obvious.


I haven't been on here long, but I've been long enough to draw a few conclusions.

All Positive- Uber comments:

Uber corporate
Disillusioned - suckered by Uber hype

Newbies completely unaware
All Negative - Uber comments :

Experienced X-Uber drivers who have discovered the truth

Competition
Those who have been specifically harmed during Ubering

Did I miss anything/anyone?


----------



## chi1cabby

J. D. said:


> All Positive- Uber comments:
> All Negative- Uber comments:
> Did I miss anything/anyone?


Uber Realistic.


----------



## limepro

chi1cabby said:


> Uber Realistic.


Yep there are some of us here that are realistic when it comes to uber, we don't promote it and we don't hate it even though we may not like it much we are realistic and use it to our advantage.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> Yep there are some of us here that are realistic when it comes to uber, we don't promote it and we don't hate it even though we may not like it much we are realistic and use it to our advantage.


Yep, you're right. I missed the ones that are in-between. Not all comments are positive or negative.


----------



## Lidman

Yup, there are some that are "middle of the road" when it comes to driving or riding with uber/lyft. They are the ones that are most likely to be objective.


----------



## DriverJ

J. D. said:


> It's appalling as I read through this at just how uneducated and ignorant are so may drivers. I just read one idiot driver who said "I'm rolling in the dough and the numbers don't lie".
> 
> Here's the numbers, REAL NUMBERS.
> 
> My last weekend:
> 
> $336.85 payout
> 23.3 hours
> 48 trips
> 
> Actual mileage = 511
> 
> HERE' THE REAL MONEY:
> 
> $336.85
> IRS mileage- 291.27 _(No_te: IRS mileage rate is NOT calculated for Uber but for indivuals who travel from one location to another for business. It does NOT take into account excess costs for damage to interior by passengers, or door dings caused by passengers opening doors into objects, or for the extra costs in water or other items given to passengers, ALL OF WHICH I'VE HAD. Actual cost will be MORE for Uber drivers.)
> 
> MY REAL NET PAY = $45.58 OR $1.95 PER HOUR.
> 
> Uber has figure out a way to steal your TIME or your CAR and you give it to them with a smile!


Excellent post.

I figured out a way to stop it real quick. I said, and still regularly say, **** UBER!


----------



## DriverJ

J. D. said:


> You must be an Uber shill.


I think everyone agrees with that.


----------



## DriverJ

limepro said:


> Yep there are some of us here that are realistic when it comes to uber, we don't promote it and we don't hate it even though we may not like it much we are realistic and use it to our advantage.


What are the rates there?


----------



## limepro

DriverJ said:


> What are the rates there?


.95 a mile not enough on its own but when you learn surge patterns you can.


----------



## DriverJ

limepro said:


> .95 a mile not enough on its own but when you learn surge patterns you can.


Wow - yeah, that's really bad. I *****ed (in my head) on every ride I did at $1.15/mile. Actually, I wasn't really happy at $1.40, where it started, but I had already told myself if there was one more reduction, I'd quit. There was, I did. I never did a single ride at $0.70/mile. I don't know who these fools are. Our schools are failing us!

Uber is using their surge crap more now (here) to get drivers out, but it suddenly goes away just before you get any of it.

It's a tough way to make a buck, and an impossible way to make a living.


----------



## DriverJ

LAndreas said:


> I recalled that they retained Krueger to do the analysis of the dataset, which came in two parts: all of Uber's internal data (which yielded the observation that more than 50% of drivers were still active one year in), and a more limited survey of just 600 drivers conducted by a third party market research firm (I dont recall they were paid, and I ask you to back up that claim if you make it). The composition of that more limited group was reported to mirror the larger Uber driver pool. The smaller sample size had a margin of error that was still in acceptable bounds, iirc.
> I can't find the link to the study right now, but your link above also leads nowhere, so I'm wondering if we even talk about the same study.
> Anyway, Krueger is a well respected academic, and his involvement produced an analysis that used fairly sophisticated methods of data analysis and interpretation, hence I labeled it an "academic study".
> I qualified that the small sample size of the dataset that lead to the 78% satisfaction conclusion likely erred towards the optimistic.
> The "Poll" you point to on this forum is a joke. It doesn't even define the unit of measurement. Still, you can tell there's a huge discrepancy in expressed opinion as to how happy people are with the option to Uber. Do I trust a professionally conducted poll and analysis with a sample size of 600 over your "poll" of less than 100, most of which may not even be Uber drivers? Yep. Any day. That doesn't make me an employee of the Uber PR department.
> 
> You can lay off me on this one.


Oh, isn't that where Uber had to pay people to say something positive about them, but still couldn't get many to do so.

God Uber sucks big ones.


----------



## DriverJ

LAndreas said:


> Care to join the source for your insights, or admit by omission that this post, sadly, represents the "best" that can be expected from you as a contribution to this board.
> 
> I had to put "best" in parentheses, because if that post of yours was just another empty mind bloviating in the empty space of this forum, there's nothing good to find in that or your future contributions.
> 
> Edit: I looked at your others recent posts, granted, waste of time, and I'm not hopeful on the matter I ask above. It appears you're another former Uber driver who hasn't found anything fulfilling to do with his life and now stalks current Uber drivers on forums. Sad to see people with nothing to do and that big a void in their lives to come on here seeking to share in the general misery of the trolls.


Oh, contrary to what you would hope to believe, I now have a real driving job (again). I don't donate my car, nor time, to the likes of little-man Kalanick. Nor do I offer my skilled, highly-trained services for free.

I realize Uber needs to have some desperate, hopeless souls such as yourself on the payroll just to have a slight positive-appearing presence in the forum, but I'd get you some condoms, selling that ass to Uber could very well be your demise. They're one dirty, nasty company. Don'y know where they've been. Ever see the 'Riding Dirty' video. That just came to mind. I'm sure a paid little Uber-boy like yourself would get a laugh out of that in between your Uber sessions.

I hope you're getting you some of that good, high-dollar James River Insurance, just in case you get Carpal-Tunnel typing your Uber propaganda. You should get a job. I know Uber, and I know you ain't making shit. Mama charging you rent in the basement there?

Uber sucks - you know it, I know it, everyone here knows it, even though some are at least somewhat looking the other way because they don't want to see, and the rates are up in their area...for now. Soon the world will know what Uber is. The media knows. Many countries know. Ride-sharing is the future, Uber is obviously not.

Become enlightened, remove your head from your ass. Get a job, get some dignity, and you won't have to lower yourself to such humiliating crap such as your activities here.

You're a sad loser. Rise up, be a man....unless you're a woman.


----------



## DriverJ

LAndreas said:


> You are kind enough to admit that you tried your hand at Ubering and failed, and apparently failed quite miserably given the degree of your hostility, and now work as a driver, most likely competing against Uber drivers. Which means your postings are irrelevant because it's a) a terrible idea to take advice from losers, and b) one would be quite a fool to believe anything a hate-filled competitor contributes to a public forum. I'm sorry for myself to have wasted yet more time addressing shit posted here. I've made sure it won't happen again.
> Oh, and your misogyny fits better into the stone age than an age of modern communication and higher education. Sad to see so many posts from people who somehow figured out the former but are so painfully obviously lacking the latter.


Oh, your post is irrelevant from the start. I was very successful at Uber, the job. I did it very well. About (70) hours per week. The only thing, Uber reaped the rewards. It was Uber the company that failed me. It's Uber the company that has failed everyone. That's why I have a real job. Insurance, vacations, decent pay, what should be expected if you accept reasonable employment. Of course, in your situation, I guess pounding out lies on the 80386 w/ monochrome monitor in mom's basement will have to suffice for now. That's where your anger stems from. Community college done let you down? What's little-dick Kalanick paying you, $5/day? Is there like a $500 recruitment bonus if you get some other stupid jackoff to post warm-n-fuzzy posts about Uber? Maybe I'll sign up. No, that's right, I have some self-respect and decency.

Lastly dumbass, misogyny means a dislike, prejudice, or contempt for women. Never did I mention a negative thing about women. I love women. I get so frustrated attempting to converse with stupid people. Please go far away. No one wants to read your lies. No one believes your bullshit, I promise.


----------



## DriverJ

LAndreas said:


> It appears you're another former Uber driver who hasn't found anything fulfilling to do with his life and now stalks current Uber drivers on forums.


You really shouldn't post. "It appears?" You don't really know anything, so you can make up what you want by saying, "It appears?"

Going with that theme...by looking at your avatar "It appears" that you are sexually attracted to little ugly dogs in goofy hats. Am I getting warm. 

"It appears" you're a liar, and an Uber employee. 

That how's it done?


----------



## J. D.

Every time I get an email from Uber I cringe when they state "you can earn $xxxx ".

What they mean is, "this is what we can earn but will be telling the IRS you earned. We'll then pay you whatever we decide."


----------



## limepro

J. D. said:


> Every time I get an email from Uber I cringe when they state "you can earn $xxxx ".
> 
> What they mean is, "this is what we can earn but will be telling the IRS you earned. We'll then pay you whatever we decide."


Have you even received a 1099? What they take is deducted off of it, it only accounts for your take then you deduct either you mileage or expenses whichever is greater.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> Have you even received a 1099? What they take is deducted off of it, it only accounts for your take then you deduct either you mileage or expenses whichever is greater.


Really? I believe you are incorrect. Anyone want to set the record straight?


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> Have you even received a 1099? What they take is deducted off of it, it only accounts for your take then you deduct either you mileage or expenses whichever is greater.


The information I received directly from Uber states my 1099 will include gross fares (including SRF) and it is my responsibility to show the deductions.


----------



## limepro

J. D. said:


> The information I received directly from Uber states my 1099 will include gross fares (including SRF) and it is my responsibility to show the deductions.


Go look in the taxes section people have posted their 1099, you can't even do your own research.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> Go look in the taxes section people have posted their 1099, you can't even do your own research.


You brought up 1099's, not me. I have no desire to research your comment. You go research.


----------



## limepro

J. D. said:


> Every time I get an email from Uber I cringe when they state "you can earn $xxxx ".
> 
> What they mean is, "this is what we can earn but will be telling the IRS you earned. We'll then pay you whatever we decide."


Who brought up taxes? which in the case of uber entails a 1099.


----------



## DrJeecheroo

I need to be brought up to speed on this thread. Who's whining about what. Was there enough tissues to wipe all the tears?


----------



## DrJeecheroo

DriverJ said:


> Oh, your post is irrelevant from the start. I was very successful at Uber, the job. I did it very well. About (70) hours per week. The only thing, Uber reaped the rewards. It was Uber the company that failed me. It's Uber the company that has failed everyone. That's why I have a real job. Insurance, vacations, decent pay, what should be expected if you accept reasonable employment. Of course, in your situation, I guess pounding out lies on the 80386 w/ monochrome monitor in mom's basement will have to suffice for now. That's where your anger stems from. Community college done let you down? What's little-dick Kalanick paying you, $5/day? Is there like a $500 recruitment bonus if you get some other stupid jackoff to post warm-n-fuzzy posts about Uber? Maybe I'll sign up. No, that's right, I have some self-respect and decency.
> 
> Lastly dumbass, misogyny means a dislike, prejudice, or contempt for women. Never did I mention a negative thing about women. I love women. I get so frustrated attempting to converse with stupid people. Please go far away. No one wants to read your lies. No one believes your bullshit, I promise.


You're probably one of the few that she doesn't have on her "so called" ignore list.


----------



## DrJeecheroo

J. D. said:


> Every time I get an email from Uber I cringe when they state "you can earn $xxxx ".
> 
> What they mean is, "this is what we can earn but will be telling the IRS you earned. We'll then pay you whatever we decide."


You're not going to be taxed on money you didn't receive. If there is a problem, I would suggest going to your local IRS office and speak with a representative about it.


----------



## DrJeecheroo

DriverJ said:


> Oh, contrary to what you would hope to believe, I now have a real driving job (again). I don't donate my car, nor time, to the likes of little-man Kalanick. Nor do I offer my skilled, highly-trained services for free.
> 
> I realize Uber needs to have some desperate, hopeless souls such as yourself on the payroll just to have a slight positive-appearing presence in the forum, but I'd get you some condoms, selling that ass to Uber could very well be your demise. They're one dirty, nasty company. Don'y know where they've been. Ever see the 'Riding Dirty' video. That just came to mind. I'm sure a paid little Uber-boy like yourself would get a laugh out of that in between your Uber sessions.
> 
> I hope you're getting you some of that good, high-dollar James River Insurance, just in case you get Carpal-Tunnel typing your Uber propaganda. You should get a job. I know Uber, and I know you ain't making shit. Mama charging you rent in the basement there?
> 
> Uber sucks - you know it, I know it, everyone here knows it, even though some are at least somewhat looking the other way because they don't want to see, and the rates are up in their area...for now. Soon the world will know what Uber is. The media knows. Many countries know. Ride-sharing is the future, Uber is obviously not.
> 
> Become enlightened, remove your head from your ass. Get a job, get some dignity, and you won't have to lower yourself to such humiliating crap such as your activities here.
> 
> You're a sad loser. Rise up, be a man....unless you're a woman.


Watch out as I've heard she/he runs to the headmaster when her feelings are hurt.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> Who brought up taxes? which in the case of uber entails a 1099.


I don't know. Didn't see anything posted here about taxes. I think that's a whole different forum section.


----------



## J. D.

DrJeecheroo said:


> You're not going to be taxed on money you didn't receive. If there is a problem, I would suggest going to your local IRS office and speak with a representative about it.


Okay, Doc, my reply, "Well duh!" Not even close to the meaning of the whine. It's all about just another one of Uber's deceptions. "You're can make $25/hour, trust us." Wooohooo. Uber makes $25/hr, not me, and then pays me $17/hr and that's before expenses. Deception SMACK DAB IN THE FACE!


----------



## DrJeecheroo

J. D. said:


> Okay, Doc, my reply, "Well duh!" Not even close to the meaning of the whine. It's all about just another one of Uber's deceptions. "You're can make $25/hour, trust us." Wooohooo. Uber makes $25/hr, not me, and then pays me $17/hr and that's before expenses. Deception SMACK DAB IN THE FACE!


Yes I'm sure the IRS is going to say Well duh. Is duh even a word?


----------



## limepro

J. D. said:


> I don't know. Didn't see anything posted here about taxes. I think that's a whole different forum section.


You really are dense no wonder you failed, read what I quoted from you previously. What do you think the IRS handles, why do you think uber reports to them, you were bringing up taxes by mentioning uber reporting anything to the IRS. They don't report for workers comp, so you must have meant your taxable earnings, once again you are dense just give up your failures are your own and for good reason.


----------



## J. D.

Although this probably should go into the TAXES section, but since it seems to be on people's minds here, here is the excert about Ubers 1099:

"The rules for a 1099-K require Uber to report all of the payments they processed on your behalf, which is the total amount the passenger paid. That means it includes things like safe ride fees and Uber’s commission: costs that Uber took out before paying out to your bank account. (This is for UberX – if you drive for UberTaxi or UberBlack there may be some other fees that are treated the same way.)"

This may not have been the way they did it in the past. But this is what I got straight from Uber and current.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> You really are dense no wonder you failed, read what I quoted from you previously. What do you think the IRS handles, why do you think uber reports to them, you were bringing up taxes by mentioning uber reporting anything to the IRS. They don't report for workers comp, so you must have meant your taxable earnings, once again you are dense just give up your failures are your own and for good reason.


No, you really are dense. It was MY comment and it WASN"T about taxes. You must be the failure.


----------



## J. D.

DrJeecheroo said:


> Yes I'm sure the IRS is going to say Well duh. Is duh even a word?


Ha! Well, maybe...


----------



## limepro

J. D. said:


> No, you really are dense. It was MY comment and it WASN"T about taxes. You must be the failure.


So then please tell me why uber would report anything to the IRS.


----------



## DrJeecheroo

limepro said:


> So then please tell me why uber would report anything to the IRS.


Good question. Heck if uber isn't easily intimidated by the city/state regulators, they might not fear the IRS.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> You really are dense no wonder you failed, read what I quoted from you previously. What do you think the IRS handles, why do you think uber reports to them, you were bringing up taxes by mentioning uber reporting anything to the IRS. They don't report for workers comp, so you must have meant your taxable earnings, once again you are dense just give up your failures are your own and for good reason.


limepro, I don't know you and you certainly don't know me. I've had enough of your personally-directed obnoxious condescending comments. If you can't be professional, do not try to engage a conversation with me.


----------



## J. D.

DrJeecheroo said:


> Good question. Heck if uber isn't easily intimidated by the city/state regulators, they might not fear the IRS.


I don't think Uber is intimidated by anyone.


----------



## chi1cabby

limepro said:


> Have you even received a 1099? What they take is deducted off of it, it only accounts for your take then you deduct either you mileage or expenses whichever is greater.





J. D. said:


> The information I received directly from Uber states my 1099 will include gross fares (including SRF) and it is my responsibility to show the deductions.


limepro apparently you, & LAndreas since he "liked your factually incorrect post", are New Drivers who didn't receive 2014 1099-K & 1099-Misc. from Uber.

J.D. is indeed correct. For 2014, Uber started to report Gross Fares, that included the it's SRFs & Commission on the 1099s.











J. D. said:


> excert about Ubers 1099:
> 
> "The rules for a 1099-K require Uber to report all of the payments they processed on your behalf, which is the total amount the passenger paid. That means it includes things like safe ride fees and Uber's commission: costs that Uber took out before paying out to your bank account. (This is for UberX - if you drive for UberTaxi or UberBlack there may be some other fees that are treated the same way.)"


----------



## J. D.

chi1cabby said:


> limepro apparently you, & LAndreas since he "liked your factually incorrect post", are New Drivers who didn't receive 2014 1099-K & 1099-Misc. from Uber.
> 
> J.D. is indeed correct. For 2014, Uber started to report Gross Fares, that included the it's SRFs & Commission on the 1099s.


Thank you. It seems some users get more satisfaction by slinging personal attacks than getting their facts correct.


----------



## J. D.

Here's another whine.
If Uber is just a technology company as they want everyone to believe, then tell me why do they take a cut of my mileage? Isn't that defacto rental of my automobile and by such, make them a transporation company?


----------



## limepro

chi1cabby said:


> limepro apparently you, & LAndreas since he "liked your factually incorrect post", are New Drivers who didn't receive 2014 1099-K & 1099-Misc. from Uber.
> 
> J.D. is indeed correct. For 2014, Uber started to report Gross Fares, that included the it's SRFs & Commission on the 1099s.
> 
> View attachment 7493


Funny because on the actual 1099 they deduct safe ride fees, requirement vs. Practice are 2 completely different things.


----------



## limepro

J. D. said:


> Here's another whine.
> If Uber is just a technology company as they want everyone to believe, then tell me why do they take a cut of my mileage? Isn't that defacto rental of my automobile and by such, make them a transporation company?


They are, you are paying a processing fee, they take 20% of your fares not only your mileage. When I sell goods I pay a transaction fee to the credit card company, they aren't taking a portion of the product I sold they are taking a portion of my revenue. I understand what you are saying but one does not equal the other. You generate revenue through your mileage, while uber generates theirs by processing payments and providing a way of drivers and riders to connect.


----------



## DriverJ

DrJeecheroo said:


> You're probably one of the few that she doesn't have on her "so called" ignore list.


Hopefully, I can make it soon.

'Ignore List,' the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears, and saying, "I can't hear you" over and over. He/She/It seems like one that would utilize an ignore list. Shallow, simple-minded, hard-headed, and employed by Uber.


----------



## DrJeecheroo

DriverJ said:


> Hopefully, I can make it soon.
> 
> 'Ignore List,' the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears, and saying, "I can't hear you" over and over. He/She/It seems like one that would utilize an ignore list. Shallow, simple-minded, hard-headed, and employed by Uber.


The ignore list is indeed a farce. Since you can easily "unignore" someone whenever it's convenient. As far as being employed by uber, that is possible, but maybe, just maybe we're dealing with a Travis wanna-be. Perhaps she applied and got laughed off the interview.


----------



## DrJeecheroo

LAndreas said:


> Yes, I haven't driven in 2013, can't contribute how tax reporting was handled back then. Generally, the 1099-Ks need to match the amounts reported to the IRS by the financial institutions providing the back end processing of credit card transactions. Those are lump sum amounts: the totals charged to a credit card account. Those amounts are not broken down into Driver Compensation, Uber Commission, and SRF, or whatever. So the amount on the 1099-K is gross, has to be.
> 
> You deduct Uber Commissions and SRF on the line "Commissions and Fees" on Sched C, before transcribing your income figure for the year onto your 1040. This is so incredibly simple, only a complete moron could not get that through his/her head. You could even "back into" the amount by tallying the sum total of your net receipts (your net after Uber comm and SRF, as reported by Uber in your driver dashboard) for the year, then use that on Sched C as your top line revenue (and not deduct anything on line 10). Since the end result's the same, the IRS don't care. If you ever were to get audited (and less than 1% of returns filed will be), that's a one sentence explanation to set things straight.
> 
> What I took issue with and supported limepro in was to call out J.D., who's making it a habit to post lazy, ignorant drivel to this forum. I noticed that you've consistently liked posts from J.D., which is so out if character for you, because these posts are antipodal to the standards you used to set and uphold. Ever since you "returned" after saying goodbye in your previous incarnation, I do not recognize you anymore. I am not sure that the resurrected chi1cabby is the same guy whose posts I enjoyed reading once and learned from quite a bit.
> 
> Since J.D. was too lazy to undertake even the most cursory effort to back up a line of posts he started about taxes


What's with all this ranting and raving. I agree with chicabby that JDs analogy is correct, and chicabby posting the breakdowns made it easier to understand. So what's the problem?


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> They are, you are paying a processing fee, they take 20% of your fares not only your mileage. When I sell goods I pay a transaction fee to the credit card company, they aren't taking a portion of the product I sold they are taking a portion of my revenue. I understand what you are saying but one does not equal the other. You generate revenue through your mileage, while uber generates theirs by processing payments and providing a way of drivers and riders to connect.


How long would you keep your credit card processor if they charged you 20-28%?


----------



## J. D.

DrJeecheroo said:


> The ignore list is indeed a farce. Since you can easily "unignore" someone whenever it's convenient. As far as being employed by uber, that is possible, but maybe, just maybe we're dealing with a Travis wanna-be. Perhaps she applied and got laughed off the interview.


Hehe. I had to go "Unignore" LAndreas to see what you meant. I see he is still weilding unfounded personal attacks across the forums. Real professional. Back to sticking my fingers in my ears. It works, don't have to view his dribble. Unfortuantely everyone else still does unless they too stick their fingers in their ears when he enters.


----------



## J. D.

[


LAndreas said:


> Since J.D. was too lazy to undertake even the most cursory effort to back up a line of posts he started about taxes, here's a good resource on the matter that is to the standards chi1cabby used to espouse:
> ********************/blog_posts/read-uber-1099


I had to "unIgnore" you to see what everyone was talking about. But before I plug my fingers back in my ears, and go "na na na Na na, I can't her you" I just had to post to your comments once more.

I never started a line of posts about taxes, that was your buddy limepro. I have no desire to talk taxes, apparently others did.

I am not stooping to your level and calling you names or insulting you. How unprofessional would that make me. Although I have a suspicion that is your motive. Ignore "on".


----------



## DriverJ

LAndreas said:


> If my credit card processor also provided me all leads to conduct my business with AND enabled me to conduct same business at all (without Uber, there'd be no TNC category and you'd be a *********), a 20-28% commission seems appropriate.
> 
> I apologize for not being able to remain diplomatic, but you are so daft you never seem to think things through before you post.


Without Uber the world would be a much better place. As soon as Goggle finishes their autonomous vehicle (they just released the latest version), they can get little-man Kalanick out of the picture, and make this thing right.

Why don't you go back to your other job at Uber, someone said you were the little cubicle-dwelling troll that was 'in charge' of placing over, what was it 6,200 bogus ride requests to Lyft drivers.

Uber - We Lie, We Cheat, because We Can

Did you get your $5 today from Travis?


----------



## chi1cabby

LAndreas said:


> What I took issue with and supported limepro in was to call out J.D., who's making it a habit to post lazy, ignorant drivel to this forum. *I noticed that you've consistently liked posts from J.D., which is so out if character for you,* because these posts are antipodal to the standards you used to set and uphold. Ever since you "returned" after saying goodbye in your previous incarnation, I do not recognize you anymore. I am not sure that the resurrected chi1cabby is the same guy whose posts I enjoyed reading once and learned from quite a bit.


That's quite a thesis. But your assertion is incorrect. I went back and counted, a few minutes back J.D. had made ~56 posts in this thread. I "liked" a total of 6 posts of his.


----------



## DriverJ

J. D. said:


> [
> 
> I had to "unIgnore" you to see what everyone was talking about. But before I plug my fingers back in my ears, and go "na na na Na na, I can't her you" I just had to post to your comments once more.
> 
> I never started a line of posts about taxes, that was your buddy limepro. I have no desire to talk taxes, apparently others did.
> 
> I am not stooping to your level and calling you names or insulting you. How unprofessional would that make me. Although I have a suspicion that is your motive. Ignore "on".


I have to believe this person was recently hired by Uber, in their PR department. Unfortunately, they are obviously a low, VERY LOW paid entry-level person, and this forum is their pitiful assignment. They try to counter the truth with anything they can. Spread propaganda, put out the illusion that Uber is a fine, upstanding company.


----------



## J. D.

chi1cabby said:


> That's quite a thesis. But your assertion is incorrect. I went back and counted, a few minutes back J.D. had made ~56 posts in this thread. I "liked" a total of 6 posts of his.


LAndreas uses Uber math. You know, drive whenever you want, carry the 1, you're rich!


----------



## limepro

J. D. said:


> How long would you keep your credit card processor if they charged you 20-28%?


If they provided the product as well 20-28% is a hell of a deal. Think of a pack of cigarettes, as a store owner I pay $5.60 per pack, I then turn around and sell it for $7, in your reality I should have $7 but I don't I have $1.40. Average profit on cigarettes I'd 13% before fees if sold by credit/debit, soda average profit is 35% before fees, the trick to making it work is either by volume(having enough sales to pay all of your expenses and pay your self) or not needing the revenue generated(everything you sell is just icing on the cake as all expenses are paid by other means).


----------



## chi1cabby

LAndreas said:


> What I took issue with and supported ￼@limepro in was to call out J.D., who's making it a habit to post lazy, ignorant drivel to this forum.


So basically you are Okay with "liking" factually incorrect posts in order to support rhetorical/ideological positions?
Okay, got it!


----------



## limepro

I hate sounding like LAndreas, I don't see eye to eye on most things with him and don't have the love for uber but as a business owner I understand the simple economics of it.


----------



## limepro

It may have been a bit confusing as yes the 1099 shows your gross and what makes it up but some of those things are deductible like the SRF which is a separate line added in for gross and taken out for tax purposes. 

When you file taxes for your regular income it shows your gross pay, it then shows what you paid to SS, income taxes, federal taxes, etc. Which you deduct from the gross. You also have other things you can deduct like any donations you made, etc.

I wonder how old J.D. is and if he has another job.


----------



## DriverJ

J. D. said:


> LAndreas uses Uber math. You know, drive whenever you want, carry the 1, you're rich!


I suspect that clown isn't a driver at all. It shows him/her being in LA, and I believe the rates there are like $0.90/mile. I don't believe anyone would actually drive for that. He/she doesn't seem exceptionably bright however.


----------



## DriverJ

LAndreas said:


> Care to join the source for your insights, or admit by omission that this post, sadly, represents the "best" that can be expected from you as a contribution to this board.
> 
> I had to put "best" in parentheses


It keeps showing up, but you really are an idiot, aren't you? You put "best" in quotation marks, not parentheses you ****ing imbecile!

I don't believe that whole 'mama's basement,' Uber propaganda thing is working out for you son/girl. Back to fast food Uber-boy/girl.

P.S. Are you an hermaphrodite? No one seems to know what you are. Do you?

I'm sure Travis will love you either way, or should I say - BOTH WAYS?


----------



## DriverJ

limepro said:


> Funny because on the actual 1099 they deduct safe ride fees, requirement vs. Practice are 2 completely different things.


You have my permission to go away now. Take your mentally-challenged brother (or sister) LAndreas with you please. It keeps slobbering everywhere, and I believe it's wet itself again.


----------



## limepro

DriverJ said:


> You have my permission to go away now. Take your mentally-challenged brother (or sister) LAndreas with you please. It keeps slobbering everywhere, and I believe it's wet itself again.


You still crying because you don't understand basic business and economics, go back to delivering pizzas and living with your parents.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> It may have been a bit confusing as yes the 1099 shows your gross and what makes it up but some of those things are deductible like the SRF which is a separate line added in for gross and taken out for tax purposes.
> 
> When you file taxes for your regular income it shows your gross pay, it then shows what you paid to SS, income taxes, federal taxes, etc. Which you deduct from the gross. You also have other things you can deduct like any donations you made, etc.
> 
> I wonder how old J.D. is and if he has another job.


Like I said, I don't know you and you certainly don't know me.

Just so you are aware, my education is BBA, my background is accounting, taxes, and business management with my largest account at over $3-billion. I'm well aware of how to file a tax return. I hated the work. I quit a couple of years ago, sold my airplane, and I have now moved into my passion. I now own a brand-new TV news station. With almost all of my assets tied up in the station start-up, and believing in Uber's hype, I erroneously thought I could bring in some personal cash for a few weeks by working the weekends Ubering while my station was building revenues. Their hype made it sound wonderful. I also thought it was a good way to meet people around town. Uber was a joke as a driver. I am a seasoned businessman with the ability to see through the predatory practices and deception perpertrated by Uber to enrich themselves, even if it was after-the-fact. I am now preparing a news story at my station to be aired very soon about the Uber lies and how they prey upon the weak minded and inexperienced. I'll be more than happy to send a news crew to visit you so you can tell us why you are the exception. I'll post the info here soon when the segment is ready. If some of the current lawsuits prevail, I plan to follow up with one of my own, not for my enrichment, but because I deplore the acts of a multi-billion dollar company preying on the unsuspecting public.

Go ahead, call me stupid one more time.

Your turn.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

chi1cabby said:


> limepro apparently you, & LAndreas since he "liked your factually incorrect post", are New Drivers who didn't receive 2014 1099-K & 1099-Misc. from Uber.
> 
> J.D. is indeed correct. For 2014, Uber started to report Gross Fares, that included the it's SRFs & Commission on the 1099s.
> 
> View attachment 7493


I'm still trying to figure out how they can report one way one year and another the next. And how they can call us independent contractors yet treat us like employees and report our income as if they're a credit card processor.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> You still crying because you don't understand basic business and economics, go back to delivering pizzas and living with your parents.


You and your buddy LAndreas are the most unprofessional, disrespectful people I've encountered on this forum.


----------



## J. D.

DriverJ said:


> It keeps showing up, but you really are an idiot, aren't you? You put "best" in quotation marks, not parentheses you ****ing imbecile!
> 
> I don't believe that whole 'mama's basement,' Uber propaganda thing is working out for you son/girl. Back to fast food Uber-boy/girl.
> 
> P.S. Are you an hermaphrodite? No one seems to know what you are. Do you?
> 
> I'm sure Travis will love you either way, or should I say - BOTH WAYS?


Hey J, calm down, this is exactly what these 2 are trying to do, push your buttons.


----------



## chi1cabby

LAndreas said:


> What you accuse me of, the "liking [of] factually incorrect posts in order to support rhetorical/ideological positions", I see more and more in the reincarnated chi1cabby. I do admit that makes me incredibly sad.


It's the same me...Just perhaps a tad bit more moody.


----------



## chi1cabby

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how they can report one way one year and another the next.


Exactly! Uber freaking switched the 1099 forms from Misc. to K.


Fuzzyelvis said:


> And how they can call us independent contractors yet treat us like employees and report our income as if they're a credit card processor.


Yup! I'm not well versed in why Uber elected to do the switcheroo this year. There must be a good reason for Uber. The switch made doing taxes much harder for the Drivers.


----------



## limepro

Then you very well should have been able to do a quick calculation just by the base mileage rate and see that their math doesn't add up, as someone with the business acumen you claim this should have been the first thing you did.

Instead you are on here complaining because people who get paid per sign up are out there lying because hey the more people they sign up the more they make. It is like any recruiter, they tell you what you want to hear and leave out the bad, your job is to research.

I never had the impression I was gonna make thousands a month, especially not at these rates just by looking at the amount of mileage I would need to drive to even break $1000. At $1/m average 30mph = 33 hours of pure driving fares if we are talking take home you are looking at ~40 hours of fare driving, let's say you have a fare 45 minutes out of each hour that is another 10 hours of idle time so you are talking about 50 hours in a perfect world but we all know the wait and driving to customers is longer in most cases.

Now if you pick your drive time and locations better you can average over that but to do it on a consistent basis is difficult. I drive 4am-7am and do 3-4 airport runs, today I had horrible luck with surges while my buddy who does the exact same thing, same time, same place got a few surge fares from 1.5-2.1x. In the 3 hours my take was $47 while his was much higher because of surges and we had nearly identical runs. Some days its me that catches the surges and breaks $80-100 in the 3 hours, sometimes it is both of us and sometimes neither.


J. D. said:


> Like I said, I don't know you and you certainly don't know me.
> 
> Just so you are aware, my education is BBA, my background is accounting, taxes, and business management with my largest account at over $3-billion. I'm well aware of how to file a tax return. I hated the work. I quit a couple of years ago, sold my airplane, and I have now moved into my passion. I now own a brand-new TV news station. With almost all of my assets tied up in the station start-up, and believing in Uber's hype, I erroneously thought I could bring in some personal cash for a few weeks by working the weekends Ubering while my station was building revenues. Their hype made it sound wonderful. I also thought it was a good way to meet people around town. Uber was a joke as a driver. I am a seasoned businessman with the ability to see through the predatory practices and deception perpertrated by Uber to enrich themselves, even if it was after-the-fact. I am now preparing a news story at my station to be aired very soon about the Uber lies and how they prey upon the weak minded and inexperienced. I'll be more than happy to send a news crew to visit you so you can tell us why you are the exception. I'll post the info here soon when the segment is ready. If some of the current lawsuits prevail, I plan to follow up with one of my own, not for my enrichment, but because I deplore the acts of a multi-billion dollar company preying on the unsuspecting public.
> 
> Go ahead, call me stupid one more time.
> 
> Your turn.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> Then you very well should have been able to do a quick calculation just by the base mileage rate and see that their math doesn't add up, as someone with the business acumen you claim this should have been the first thing you did.


Well, you are absolutely right about one thing, I should have ran the number prior, but I didn't. Simple. And guess what, I suspect (I know) that almost every new gleamy-eyed driver did just like me, believed Uber. Whether you want to ignore it or not, the facts remain. You can not operate the way Uber wants you to and make a profit.

You don't seem dumb. So I have to wonder what are your motives to praise a company who's primary advice to all new drivers, not your advice, is a losing proposition.


----------



## J. D.

> Yup! I'm not well versed in why Uber elected to do the switcheroo this year. There must be a good reason for Uber. The switch made doing taxes much harder for the Drivers.


Well, it wasn't truly an election as much as a requirement because the bill passed by congress includes a $20,000/200 transaction threshhold. The form came out in 2012 and the theory behind it is that it will allow the IRS to capture all of the transactions made through credit cards making it easier for them to track all moneys made by third party billing companies. Uber really didn't have a choice since they classify themselves as a technology company.


----------



## limepro

J. D. said:


> Well, you are absolutely right about one thing, I should have ran the number prior, but I didn't. Simple. And guess what, I suspect (I know) that almost every new gleamy-eyed driver did just like me, believed Uber. Whether you want to ignore it or not, the facts remain. You can not operate the way Uber wants you to and make a profit.
> 
> You don't seem dumb. So I have to wonder what are your motives to praise a company who's primary advice to all new drivers, not your advice, is a losing proposition.


That's the thing, I don't praise the company at all, I suggest people find out ways to make it work for them if they absolutely have no other choice or as a side gig for extra cash. Both take some studying, knowledge and understanding of how the system works.

Once again I don't think of it as uber lying but more as the people who make their living getting others to sign up to drive. Many times it is other drivers posting up the craigslist ads just to try and make some referral money.

I don't take anything at face value especially with the wealth of knowledge we have known as the internet. I came here and read the complaints prior to ever thinking of signing up, I researched the rates and what uber takes, I watched and still watch surges week to week to change up my habits to benefit me.

If I know every day at 5:30 when the first train reaches the Kendall station it surges because everyone wants to get home and buses aren't running yet, you can bet your ass I'm gonna drive the 3 miles from my house to grab one of those. If I know every Monday 4 cruise ships dock and drop all 10k of their passengers at the same time and it surges 2-4x I'm gonna drive the 4 miles from my house to get that $50+ fare. I don't chase surges, I anticipate them as the first few people in the area usually get the surge fare and the ones who show up after the fact don't.

This is because the people not willing to wait are gonna go to the first people in the area.


----------



## J. D.

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how they can report one way one year and another the next. And how they can call us independent contractors yet treat us like employees and report our income as if they're a credit card processor.


The legal requirements to be classified as an IC don't quite fit Uber but neither do employee status. They're kind of in a gray area and the current lawsuit is going to a jury to decide.

There is a push to bring a new classification in the U.S. of a Dependent Contractor. It's basically a hybrid of the two but we'll have to wait and see if that happens.


----------



## limepro

I don't see us as true IC either as we are limited to what we are able to do like set fares.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> That's the thing, I don't praise the company at all, I suggest people find out ways to make it work for them if they absolutely have no other choice or as a side gig for extra cash. Both take some studying, knowledge and understanding of how the system works.
> 
> Once again I don't think of it as uber lying but more as the people who make their living getting others to sign up to drive. Many times it is other drivers posting up the craigslist ads just to try and make some referral money.
> 
> .


I understand exactly and that is part of the problem. When recruiting drivers pays much better than actually driving, there is something wrong. Management is not stupid. They know what they are doing and it is plain wrong. Just because you've discovered a way to go around their basic driving plan, still doesn't make it right.

In my area, there are no cruise ships or train stations. There are rarely any surges except at 2 am when the drunks are ready to go home. Everyone doesn't have your situation so the rates should be increased to cover basic, Uber recommended, operations. Otherwise, it smells of scam.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> I don't see us as true IC either as we are limited to what we are able to do like set fares.


You're right. A true IC has more control. But employee doesn't fit either. But when you look at it closely, it more closely resembles employee/employer than IC/GC. Mostly because of the limits placed on type of cars, the driver rating system, Uber's arbitrary control of rates, and their ability to fire you. And don't forget the "no tip" crap.


----------



## J. D.

It's a bit outdated, some things have changed, but still interesting.

Uber Myths

https://youtu.be/XT8Kv7Et0OI


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

chi1cabby said:


> Exactly! Uber freaking switched the 1099 forms from Misc. to K.
> 
> Yup! I'm not well versed in why Uber elected to do the switcheroo this year. There must be a good reason for Uber. The switch made doing taxes much harder for the Drivers.


I've been doing different contractor gigs since 1991. I started with uber this January so didn't have them on my taxes thus year. But I don't know why it would be that much more difficult. Just more to deduct really to get to the same "net".

What makes absolutely no sense is they are saying WE are collecting the payment from the customer and then paying uber. Yet WE don't even know the customer's name and uber won't even give it to us if we ask.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

J. D. said:


> Well, it wasn't truly an election as much as a requirement because the bill passed by congress includes a $20,000/200 transaction threshhold. The form came out in 2012 and the theory behind it is that it will allow the IRS to capture all of the transactions made through credit cards making it easier for them to track all moneys made by third party billing companies. Uber really didn't have a choice since they classify themselves as a technology company.


I realise what they're trying to do. But why didn't they do the same in previous years? The form was available before this year.


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> It's appalling as I read through this at just how uneducated and ignorant are so may drivers. I just read one idiot driver who said "I'm rolling in the dough and the numbers don't lie".
> 
> Here's the numbers, REAL NUMBERS.
> 
> My last weekend:
> 
> $336.85 payout
> 23.3 hours
> 48 trips
> 
> Actual mileage = 511
> 
> HERE' THE REAL MONEY:
> 
> $336.85
> IRS mileage- 291.27 _(No_te: IRS mileage rate is NOT calculated for Uber but for indivuals who travel from one location to another for business. It does NOT take into account excess costs for damage to interior by passengers, or door dings caused by passengers opening doors into objects, or for the extra costs in water or other items given to passengers, ALL OF WHICH I'VE HAD. Actual cost will be MORE for Uber drivers.)
> 
> MY REAL NET PAY = $45.58 OR $1.95 PER HOUR.
> 
> Uber has figure out a way to steal your TIME or your CAR and you give it to them with a smile!


First of all, the IRS deduction is just a standard deduction. It doesn't always reflect reality. If you are truly spending $.57 a mile, my question is why are you using such a new vehicle to Uber with? You need an older car, that has little to no depreciation.

Second, if you are actually losing money on this gig, or netting only $50, why the heck don't you just get a job at McDonalds, or start waiting tables? When I waited tables in college, even though I was a terrible waiter, I managed to make $10-15 an hour in tips.

Seriously, if this gig is hurting you, wise up son and go do so etching else. Uber exists only in relatively large cities. You should be able to find a job doing something else.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> First of all, the IRS deduction is just a standard deduction. It doesn't always reflect reality. If you are truly spending $.57 a mile, my question is why are you using such a new vehicle to Uber with? You need an older car, that has little to no depreciation.
> 
> Second, if you are actually losing money on this gig, or netting only $50, why the heck don't you just get a job at McDonalds, or start waiting tables? When I waited tables in college, even though I was a terrible waiter, I managed to make $10-15 an hour in tips.
> 
> Seriously, if this gig is hurting you, wise up son and go do so etching else. Uber exists only in relatively large cities. You should be able to find a job doing something else.


Hey King, you make some very valid points but you obviously haven't read many of my other posts.

But to address your comments with rational thought and no emotional rantings:

I would never go buy a second car for Uber. Plain dumb. I, like almost every other driver, used the car I had. After all, no payments, it's paid. I wish I had actual numbers to know how many bought cars just to use with Uber.

One of the biggest fallacies among the typical Uber driver is that the IRS actuaries are stupid and just gives you extra money. Right! Actual cost to Uber is more than 57¢/mile because of the compressed time frame (estimated 10x based on empirical data) on damage/wear/repairs/maintenance and increased fuel cost. This simply means you'll experience damage and repairs in 2 years that would typically take 20 years if not used for Uber. AAA says it is 59¢ for normal use, not taxi/rideshare but I'll stick with the 57 for now. Then add in the extra insurance (you bet your butt you need additional insurance) and the other expenses not included in mileage calculations like cell phone, cell service, cleaning, bookkeeping (who does bookkeeping for a business, right?), waiting time, dead head miles, idling (no mileage) and many more. It is impossible to actually make a profit for anyone at less than $2/ paid mile. Unfortunately, the reality is the majority of new UberX drivers have no business training or business management experience. Your goal SHOULD be to make a profit, not break even, definitely not lose.

McDonalds would indeed pay better. Waiting tables even more. Much better options than Uber. That's my suggestion also to any UberX driver. Uber has one, and only one, benefit over these other jobs. Time. An UberX driver can choose work times. Now in reality that choice is limited and is an illusion because if he/she wants to actually earn money, driving must be done at needed times which may not coincide with the drivers desired work time. In my area, that was 10pm to 2am on weekends, you know, the drunk shuttle. Hardly the time I want to work.

Until Uber management stops this predatory act toward drivers and raises rates back to a level where drivers can operate at a profit, I suggest every UberX driver do something else. But here's where reality sets in. Many are stuck because it simply isn't that easy to find another job. And even if operating at a net loss, it is still cash flow. People still have to pay the rent.

Right now, there are very few areas where Uber is paying $2 or more.

Don't believe for a minute that Uber management is stupid. They have a whole team of financial wizards and attorneys to work these numbers and their motives are to increase Uber valuation and profits, even if it is at the expense of the driver.


----------



## KingJimmy

The cost of bookkeeping and a cell phone? Really? Are you going to start factoring in the emotional currency I spend too, by not being home with my wife and making babies?

If you were doing Uber as a full time job and starting from scratch, all the things you've mentioned would be a legitimate cost. But the fact remains most of the things you add up aren't actual costs. I already own a cell phone. I already own a car that's flat lined with its depreciation. The wear and tear on my vehicle will be minimal because I'm only doing this part time on Saturday afternoons. Nobody will likely be puking in my car, as I'm not doing the bar scene. I don't need additional insurance. I don't need a CPA. I already keep my car pretty clean, and clean it on a regular basis. Etc etc etc. 

The way I've done the math, is Uber is only costing me about $0.13 cents a mile when factoring in gas, wear and tear, and maintenance. This is based on AAA numbers. With the IRS allowing me a standard deduction of $0.57 cents a mile presently, more likely than not, my taxes will reflect a loss at the end of the year on my Schedule C. Such means all the money I'm earning from this side gig is tax free, and will actually end up reducing my tax burden from my regular full time job. In reality, the government is paying me to work for Uber. 

I plan on only driving 5-10,000 miles this year on Uber. Using the government standard deduction of .57 cents, that will result in expenses of $2850-$5700 to drive my car this year. And nobody in their right mind thinks that it costs that in order to drive a mere 5-10,000 miles in a year. Only the government thinks like that. 

And such is what you are implying JD. You actually think it costs more!! Your thinking is worse than government thinking.

I'm sorry, but your calculations are garbage.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> The cost of bookkeeping and a cell phone? Really? Are you going to start factoring in the emotional currency I spend too, by not being home with my wife and making babies?
> 
> If you were doing Uber as a full time job and starting from scratch, all the things you've mentioned would be a legitimate cost. But the fact remains most of the things you add up aren't actual costs. I already own a cell phone. I already own a car that's flat lined with its depreciation. The wear and tear on my vehicle will be minimal because I'm only doing this part time on Saturday afternoons. Nobody will likely be puking in my car, as I'm not doing the bar scene. I don't need additional insurance. I don't need a CPA. I already keep my car pretty clean, and clean it on a regular basis. Etc etc etc.
> 
> The way I've done the math, is Uber is only costing me about $0.13 cents a mile when factoring in gas, wear and tear, and maintenance. This is based on AAA numbers. With the IRS allowing me a standard deduction of $0.57 cents a mile presently, more likely than not, my taxes will reflect a loss at the end of the year on my Schedule C. Such means all the money I'm earning from this side gig is tax free, and will actually end up reducing my tax burden from my regular full time job. In reality, the government is paying me to work for Uber.
> 
> I plan on only driving 5-10,000 miles this year on Uber. Using the government standard deduction of .57 cents, that will result in expenses of $2850-$5700 to drive my car this year. And nobody in their right mind thinks that it costs that in order to drive a mere 5-10,000 miles in a year. Only the government thinks like that.
> 
> And such is what you are implying JD. You actually think it costs more!! Your thinking is worse than government thinking.
> 
> I'm sorry, but your calculations are garbage.


This is the typical thinking of an Uber driver. Uber counts on it.

Whether you want to accept it or not, driving for Uber is a business, doesn't matter if it is part-time or full-time, and it if it required to conduct the business, it is a business expense. Period. Ignore it if you like. Doesn't change the facts. Uber preys on this gullibility.

Unfortunately, this attitude is way too common in the Uber world.

By the way, my background is accounting, taxes, and business management. My calculations are not garbage as they are spot on and based on empirical data. What's your expertise to dismiss them?


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> Actual cost to Uber is more than 57¢/mile because of the compressed time frame (estimated 10x based on empirical data) on damage/wear/repairs/maintenance and increased fuel cost.


Sorry but that is incorrect. In fact 57c a mile is in fact lofty as most of your depreciation would happen regardless of Uber. Maintenance and wear will happen regardless of your driving. For example, before Uber I was doing oil changes every 3 months. Now I still do them every 3 months just I am closer to my 8,oookm mark than before. (I used to do it at 3,000 as 1000km per month) Your calculations on wear and tear on your vehicle due to passenger use is also false. If you have young kids they are harder on your backseat than any person I have driven.

You seem to forget most of what you are talking about are expenses people have today regardless of Uber or not. (Cell phone, cell phone service as an example) Uber gives people a way to deduct those expenses where on a regular 9-5 job they can't.

Uber is not a sustainable business model for the hard core starting from scratch. But if you already have $$$$ tied up in a car, for the first time you can make some money off that and deduct a whole bunch of expenses you can't do today.

Like others have said your calculations are not accurate. I'm sure you are weighing heavy on a clean slate approach, but that's not what Uber is. It's a compliment to what you already have.

You want a clean slate lively business well then your calculations would be more in line.

Also you can either take the mileage deduction on your taxes OR submit your receipts for their value with percentages weighed out between Uber and personal. And I can tell you the receipt method work out much better than the mileage deductions in my case. Because you are right on one thing. I had way more cost to my car last year than what Uber driving per mile was. But those sunk costs were for things I would have needed anyways. (New Winter Tires, body work on the car, Insurance) All get factored in. To my taxes 95% of my driving is work related with Uber. So you can do the math on that.


----------



## KingJimmy

I don't care if your background is in finance. Your math is still wrong, as you are factoring in things that aren't real costs. And for what it's worth, I am a mortgage underwriter. I get the joys of regularly reviewing P&L's, personal, and corporate tax returns for a living. Such is a very different world from yours, But I digress...

I already own a personal cell phone. I use it for Uber. But this isn't a business related expense. I could count it as one if I wanted to. But it is my personal expense. Likewise, I own my car. I pay state taxes on it every year. Is this a business expense? I could count it as one if I wanted to. They even havi fun accounting rules for this sorta stuff. But at the end of the day, we both know that the car is my personal expense. 

All these items are items nobody should cash flow on a P&L unless they actually went out and spent money on them specifically for their business. They already own and pay for them apart from the business. The business depends on them to make money, true. But I would still own them apart from it. They business is not increasing my personal expenses by owning them.

In the real world, my bank ledger is getting more money put into it. So long as I take in more money than I spend on gas, depreciation, wear and tear, and maintenance, I'm coming out ahead. 

Again, I maintain operating my car over 10,000 miles will not cost me $5700. You know this, and I know this. I've put 50,000 miles on my car since I bought it. The car cost me $14,000 to buy. It has not cost me $25k to drive.


----------



## Actionjax

Do you have a calculation you think is more in line chi1cabby? Just Curious? (I think $0.13) is quite a bit low by my calculations.


----------



## chi1cabby

$0.25/mile would barely account for a well maintained, fully depreciated prius running as a Uber car.
https://uberpeople.net/xfa-blog-entry/how-to-calculate-costs-as-an-uber-driver.23/


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> . They business is not increasing my personal expenses by owning them.


Wow! This one took me back a bit coming from a professional dealing with money. It doesn't matter if you are "already doing it anyway" as so many erroneously imagine, and I'm sure you know that. I've never stated that your business expenses will increase your personal expenses. That's not the point. The point is that Uber knows this and is exploiting this to their benefit, not yours. It's adding to their bottom line because they KNOW you are doing it already. If it is required for the business, the rates paid to you should reflect it. The rates should be enough to cover the cost of your cell phone and every other expense if it is required to conduct your Uber business.


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> Wow! This one took me back a bit coming from a professional dealing with money. It doesn't matter if you are "already doing it anyway" as so many erroneously imagine, and I'm sure you know that. I've never stated that your business expenses will increase your personal expenses. That's not the point. The point is that Uber knows this and is exploiting this to their benefit, not yours. It's adding to their bottom line because they KNOW you are doing it already. If it is required for the business, the rates paid to you should reflect it. The rates should be enough to cover the cost of your cell phone and every other expense if it is required to conduct your Uber business.


Uber is not meant to be a business anymore for anyone full time. With the rates as they are it's a part time compliment job. That does not mean they are exploiting anyone. You don't have to do it. It's no different that a gym membership that tells people they will get 6 pack abs in 30 days. Some people do, but most buy into the hype and never get there and quit.

That said in some markets Taxi drivers make about as much as they do on Uber. But they get tips on top of it. I suggest you look at the entire industry before you go paint Uber being some company doing something new in the underhanded department.

Do your research. End of story.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> If you have young kids they are harder on your backseat than any person I have driven.
> 
> You seem to forget most of what you are talking about are expenses people have today regardless of Uber or not. (Cell phone, cell phone service as an example) Uber gives people a way to deduct those expenses where on a regular 9-5 job they can't.


AJ, I respect your opinions as we've crossed paths on here several times. I haven't forgotten anything. On the contrary.

I agree with the young kids thing, but no, mine are grown and gone. I do have the grandkids occasionally and yes, they're harder on the interior than most passengers.

But you seem to have missed my point. Virtually any sideline business will provide you a way to deduct expenses that you are already spending personally, Uber is no exception. I've recommended that to many of my clients over the years. It is still the best tax reductions strategy available today.

My point is that Uber sets the rates and issues the requirements. It doesn't matter if you are already doing it. Uber rates should simply cover all the costs. If not, it is exploitation of the mindset many have.

For just a moment, forget the fact that you have any of the requirements, no car, no phone, etc. You agree to work for Uber and start from scratch. The rates paid to you MUST cover all of your expenses or you will go out of business. Simple. So, now by using things you already have, you are basically subsidizing your Uber business from your other work and Uber is profiting from it, not you. That is all I'm saying.


----------



## KingJimmy

Actionjax said:


> Do you have a calculation you think is more in line chi1cabby? Just Curious? (I think $0.13) is quite a bit low by my calculations.


Mine is based on my local cost of gas, plus what AAA says the annual maintenance/wear/tare on my car is per mile. Gas equals about $0.08-9 cents a mile. Upkeep is about $0.04 per mile.

I did not factor in the depreciation rate, as my car is 7 years old, and it's depreciation rate is pretty much flat at this point. And honestly, since I plan on driving my Accord another 10 years (it only has 88k in miles on it), I'm not particularly concerned about the depreciation of its value. But that shouldn't be more than several hundred bucks per year at this point. At the most, I figure it would bring me up to $.20-23 per mile, max.


----------



## chi1cabby

Actionjax said:


> Uber is not meant to be a business anymore for anyone full time.


Uber represents primary income or significant source for ~50% of even Part TimeDrivers. And it's a primary source of income for a vast majority of Drivers who work at least 30hrs/wk.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> Uber is not meant to be a business anymore for anyone full time.
> Do your research. End of story.


Well, I believe you're sort of right there. Lower rates has virtually made it impossible to do it full time.

Believe me, I'm a research hound at this point. Willing to bet I've already done 1000x more than the average Uber driver.


----------



## chi1cabby

KingJimmy said:


> At the most, I figure it would bring me up to $.20-23 per mile, max.


That's more in line with


chi1cabby said:


> $0.25/mile would barely account for a well maintained, fully depreciated prius running as a Uber car.
> https://uberpeople.net/xfa-blog-entry/how-to-calculate-costs-as-an-uber-driver.23/


But now, there is on average 1 paid mile for every 2 miles driven.

Any which way you hash it, UberX Driving has been reduced to at best a Minimum Wage gig, without any benefits & Insurance Coverage risks, for most Drivers in most markets.


In fact, the only thing going for UberX Driving is *FLEXIBILITY*, at this point.


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> Wow! This one took me back a bit coming from a professional dealing with money. It doesn't matter if you are "already doing it anyway" as so many erroneously imagine, and I'm sure you know that. I've never stated that your business expenses will increase your personal expenses. That's not the point. The point is that Uber knows this and is exploiting this to their benefit, not yours. It's adding to their bottom line because they KNOW you are doing it already. If it is required for the business, the rates paid to you should reflect it. The rates should be enough to cover the cost of your cell phone and every other expense if it is required to conduct your Uber business.


You are correct, my income from my other job, which I use to pay my cell phone with, auto taxes, insurance, etc, does "subsidize" my Uber business. It's what makes it possible for Uber to be a profitable venture for me on a part-time basis. Indeed, it seems very unlikely that Uber would be a sustainable and profitable for me to do without some sort of subsidy. Without my other sources of household income, I probably could not afford to do Uber. Like I've said all along, I don't think too many people can make it work as a full-time business. For such I recommend become a regular taxi cab driver.

But so long as I subsidize my business, it'll remain a profitable side gig. That's really all there is too it. Me subsidizing my own side gig is fundamentally no different than the government subsidizing student loans, mortgages, or any number of businesses that depend on grants or other tax payer funded incentives to operate. Both are potentially unsustainable long term. Once somebody pulls the plug, the game is over.

But so long as I subsidize myself, I actually stand to generate profit. Just because it's subsidized doesn't make the profit any less real. And with my extra money, I'm doing things like paying down debt, increasing my savings, and hopefully fund some stock purchases long term. Such things ultimately increase my net worth, no matter the juggling act I undertake to do it.


----------



## KingJimmy

chi1cabby said:


> That's more in line with
> 
> But now, there is on average 1 paid mile for every 2 miles driven.
> 
> Any which way you hash it, UberX Driving has been reduced to at best a Minimum Wage gig, without any benefits & Insurance Coverage risks, for most Drivers in most markets.
> 
> 
> In fact, the only thing going for UberX Driving is *FLEXIBILITY*, at this point.


Even if I use $.25 per mile, based on the two runs I did the other day, I would still take home $20 for two hours of having my app on. $10 an hour is nothing to get excited about. But it is decent side gig money. Beats working retail. And my profit would've been higher had I not made some newbie mistakes... like back tracking across 20 miles of dead miles, without trying to pick up a pax, just to go back to where I started off at. I think I could turn this into a $15 an hour gig for me if I game things better. That's less than what I get paid at my full time job. But I'm ok with that. It's easy money.


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> For just a moment, forget the fact that you have any of the requirements, no car, no phone, etc. You agree to work for Uber and start from scratch. The rates paid to you MUST cover all of your expenses or you will go out of business. Simple. So, now by using things you already have, you are basically subsidizing your Uber business from your other work and Uber is profiting from it, not you. That is all I'm saying.


Again starting from scratch is not those who have already personal sunk costs. You are right on the other points.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> But so long as I subsidize myself, I actually stand to generate profit. Just because it's subsidized doesn't make the profit any less real. And with my extra money, I'm doing things like paying down debt, increasing my savings, and hopefully fund some stock purchases long term. Such things ultimately increase my net worth, no matter the juggling act I undertake to do it.


Exactly! Well sort of, it's the illusion of a profit when subsidizing from another job. Now that's not always a bad thing for some people.

One of the things I've stated on here several times is this, If you have many overlapping expenses with Uber, and you use Uber as a way to reduce your tax burden from your other income, (loss on your tax filing), AND you enjoy driving, it is the only true smart way to use Uber as a driver right now.

Unfortunately, there are way too many people who don't have that subsidy and were deceived by Uber with their marketing, "earn $25 an hour" driving for Uber. Most of these people went into thinking of it like a part-time job, not a business venture. Heck, a $25 per hour part time job that I can work whenever I want. You'd be crazy not to jump on that.

Now is that deception to the unsuspecting or what?


----------



## Actionjax

chi1cabby said:


> Uber represents primary income or significant source for ~50% of even Part TimeDrivers. And it's a primary source of income for a vast majority of Drivers who work at least 30hrs/wk.
> View attachment 7552
> 
> 
> View attachment 7553


Those stats don't just talk to UberX drivers. That's all the platform. Uber X there is currently 80% part time here in Toronto.


----------



## chi1cabby

Actionjax said:


> Those stats don't just talk to UberX drivers.


UberBLACK/Uber_SUV/Uber_LUX represents only 18% of Drivers.

UberXL/UberPLUS/UberSELECT is categorized under UberX.

So UberX represents vast majority of Uber's Drivers.


----------



## KingJimmy

For a living, I get the joy of working out of my home. I'm a remote user. Using JD's logic,


J. D. said:


> Exactly! Well sort of, it's the illusion of a profit when subsidizing from another job. Now that's not always a bad thing for some people.
> 
> One of the things I've stated on here several times is this, If you have many overlapping expenses with Uber, and you use Uber as a way to reduce your tax burden from your other income, (loss on your tax filing), AND you enjoy driving, it is the only true smart way to use Uber as a driver right now.
> 
> Unfortunately, there are way too many people who don't have that subsidy and were deceived by Uber with their marketing, "earn $25 an hour" driving for Uber. Most of these people went into thinking of it like a part-time job, not a business venture. Heck, a $25 per hour part time job that I can work whenever I want. You'd be crazy not to jump on that.
> 
> Now is that deception to the unsuspecting or what?


Ok, so it looks like we pretty much agree. Or at least are close enough.

I would liken Uber's advertisement of making $25 an hour to the same thing as Snickers does, or Sprite. Does Snickers satisfy your hunger? Does Sprite quench your thirst? Sorta. But we all know that's a bunch of crap. Eating a Snickers bar may tie you over in a pinch, but it'll make you more hungry long term. Sprite, it may wet your lips, but it doesn't replenish your body. I'm not sure I would call that predatory (then again, I work in the mortgage industry!), but it is definitely something somebody shouldn't naively jump into, or look at as an iron clad contract and promise.


----------



## chi1cabby

Actionjax said:


> Uber X there is currently 80% part time here in Toronto.


That's conjectural. Unless you've seen any thing data based to back that up.


----------



## chi1cabby

KingJimmy said:


> I would liken Uber's advertisement of making $25 an hour to the same thing as Snickers does, or Sprite. Does Snickers satisfy your hunger? Does Sprite quench your thirst?


Are you dependent on a Snickers Bar or a bottle of Sprite to put food on the table or a roof over your head?
If you are then perhaps it represents the same thing. Otherwise it's fraudulent advertising on Uber's part.

And Uber itself realized as much when it lowered the Earnings Claims in CL Ads soon after the Jan 9th Rate Cuts:








https://uberpeople.net/threads/chec...1-paid-mile-you-lose-money.11738/#post-146911


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> Again starting from scratch is not those who have already personal sunk costs. You are right on the other points.


So do you think Uber's actuaries are just stupid and accidentally fell into $Billions? Of course not. They know exactly what they're doing. It's wrong to perpetrate a scheme on tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people requiring them to subsidize their Uber career (I know, it hurt when I typed it) from another job for the benefit of a multi-billion dollar corporation. It's just plain wrong. I don't care if a handful of people have figured out a way to make a tiny bit of profit by driving only surges or driving an old beater. You have to step back and look at the big picture. What this company is doing right now is just plain wrong. Most of the drivers are signing on right now expecting to take home close to $25 per hour. Nowhere does Uber talk about net profits after expenses in their deceptive marketing. That new driver is already thinking, "if I drive 40 hours instead of 20, OMG, I'll be rolling in the dough." You can bet your hiney they're running those numbers in their head. You, and I, and anyone else that's driven more than a couple weeks know that's far from the truth. Churn, churn, churn.


----------



## KingJimmy

chi1cabby said:


> Are you dependent on a Snickers Bar or a bottle of Sprite to put food on the table or a roof over your head?
> If you are then perhaps it represents the same thing. Otherwise it's fraudulent advertising on Uber's part.
> 
> And Uber itself realized as much when it lowered the Earnings Claims in CL Ads soon after the Jan 9th Rate Cuts:
> View attachment 7557
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/chec...1-paid-mile-you-lose-money.11738/#post-146911


There is definitely hints of deception in their ads, but then again, I've not researched it too much. So much of what goes into advertising had historically been deceptive. So I can't say it shocks me.


----------



## Actionjax

chi1cabby said:


> That's conjectural. Unless you've seen any thing data based to back that up.


Trying to get a shot of the poster that hangs in the Toronto office. Stand by.


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> So do you think Uber's actuaries are just stupid and accidentally fell into $Billions? Of course not. They know exactly what they're doing. It's wrong to perpetrate a scheme on tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people requiring them to subsidize their Uber career (I know, it hurt when I typed it) from another job for the benefit of a multi-billion dollar corporation. It's just plain wrong. I don't care if a handful of people have figured out a way to make a tiny bit of profit by driving only surges or driving an old beater. You have to step back and look at the big picture. What this company is doing right now is just plain wrong. Most of the drivers are signing on right now expecting to take home close to $25 per hour. Nowhere does Uber talk about net profits after expenses in their deceptive marketing. That new driver is already thinking, "if I drive 40 hours instead of 20, OMG, I'll be rolling in the dough." You can bet your hiney they're running those numbers in their head. You, and I, and anyone else that's driven more than a couple weeks know that's far from the truth. Churn, churn, churn.


The only thing they tell you is that they will 1099 you. If you don't know what a 1099 is, and can't figure you'll be bearing some expenses out of your own pocket, then is that really their fault? At some point, personal responsibility comes into play.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> I would liken Uber's advertisement of making $25 an hour to the same thing as Snickers does, or Sprite. Does Snickers satisfy your hunger? Does Sprite quench your thirst? Sorta. But we all know that's a bunch of crap. Eating a Snickers bar may tie you over in a pinch, but it'll make you more hungry long term. Sprite, it may wet your lips, but it doesn't replenish your body. I'm not sure I would call that predatory (then again, I work in the mortgage industry!), but it is definitely something somebody shouldn't naively jump into, or look at as an iron clad contract and promise.


Sorry, you're analogy? Now if you said, come get your snickers, it's only 25¢ today, and at the checkout, I get charged $2.00, now that, yeah, oh man, what? But the sign says...


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> So do you think Uber's actuaries are just stupid and accidentally fell into $Billions? Of course not. They know exactly what they're doing. It's wrong to perpetrate a scheme on tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people requiring them to subsidize their Uber career (I know, it hurt when I typed it) from another job for the benefit of a multi-billion dollar corporation. It's just plain wrong. I don't care if a handful of people have figured out a way to make a tiny bit of profit by driving only surges or driving an old beater. You have to step back and look at the big picture. What this company is doing right now is just plain wrong. Most of the drivers are signing on right now expecting to take home close to $25 per hour. Nowhere does Uber talk about net profits after expenses in their deceptive marketing. That new driver is already thinking, "if I drive 40 hours instead of 20, OMG, I'll be rolling in the dough." You can bet your hiney they're running those numbers in their head. You, and I, and anyone else that's driven more than a couple weeks know that's far from the truth. Churn, churn, churn.


I agree net profits are not part of what Uber talks about. anyone becoming a business owner should know simple math and understand how to run a profitable business. If someone leaves a full time job to do Uber that's their problem. Not Uber's. They are a company plain and simple. The only profit they will care about is their own.

Now that said I do Uber for a profit so I'm square. and I know what my threshold is before I turn in my Uber phone.

You are speaking things most understand already.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> The only thing they tell you is that they will 1099 you. If you don't know what a 1099 is, and can't figure you'll be bearing some expenses out of your own pocket, then is that really their fault? At some point, personal responsibility comes into play.


That's true but the part of the 1099 is kind of buried. Even so, of the one's who do read it and don't know, how many do you think research before signing up?

I agree there should be personal responsibility. Absolutely. But Uber is counting on the opposite. And apparently it's working fantastically for them.

But by that same analogy, anyone who gets mugged should bear some personal responsibility. You shouldn't have been there, or alone, or have hundred dollar bills hanging out of your pockets, or what ever excuse to blame the victim. I don't know many who would really blame the victim instead of the thug. I still blame Uber, not it's victims.


----------



## KingJimmy

Actionjax said:


> I agree net profits are not part of what Uber talks about. anyone becoming a business owner should know simple math and understand how to run a profitable business. If someone leaves a full time job to do Uber that's their problem. Not Uber's. They are a company plain and simple. The only profit they will care about is their own.
> 
> Now that said I do Uber for a profit so I'm square. and I know what my threshold is before I turn in my Uber phone.
> 
> You are speaking things most understand already.


Honestly, how could anybody expect Uber to advertise or speak to what your net profits potential will be? I don't think it's fair to expect them to do such. It's up to the individual to figure that out.


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> That's true but the part of the 1099 is kind of buried. Even so, of the one's who do read it and don't know, how many do you think research before signing up?
> 
> I agree there should be personal responsibility. Absolutely. But Uber is counting on the opposite. And apparently it's working fantastically for them.
> 
> But by that same analogy, anyone who gets mugged should bear some personal responsibility. You shouldn't have been there, or alone, or have hundred dollar bills hanging out of your pockets, or what ever excuse to blame the victim. I don't know many who would really blame the victim instead of the thug. I still blame Uber, not it's victims.


I'm sure a lot of people blindly go into it. Just like a lot of people blindly sign mortgage documents (which is an issue!).

I know for me, this past weekend I just dipped my toe into the water. I just wanted to see what the experience was like, and I then sat down to see if it was even worth my time. I would like to think most reasonable people do the same. Them again, being in the default side of the mortgage industry, I've seen otherwise reasonable people do stupid things financially, because they let emotion get in the way. Of course, I'm not one to judge. We've all done it at some point.

But to that point, I think it's also wrong to do as many do on here, and scream about how Uber is one giant scam that the CEO is swindling for his own ends. Because that's not everybody's experience, and frankly, as we've already shown, you CAN make decent money in your spare time doing this gig. Maybe it'd be better to show people how to do that, than to cry the sky is falling?


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> Honestly, how could anybody expect Uber to advertise or speak to what your net profits potential will be? I don't think it's fair to expect them to do such. It's up to the individual to figure that out.


Easy.

Drivers: Here's a sample of what you can expect:

20 Hours - gross fares (@$25) - $500
Uber's cut $150 
Your take home $350 wait...what? You mean the $500 you advertised I could EARN wasn't after Uber's cut?
Your estimated expenses
Insurance, mileage, phone, 
repairs, bottle water, etc $300 (generous, oh and by the way, if you'll donate all those things you already have to Uber, we can falsely lower this number)

Profit $50 Wooohooo, I'm off to the bank.

Of course they WOULDN'T consider publishing this to a potential new driver. The more they can gloss over costs, the better for them.

Oh, and by the way, those were pretty darn close to my actual numbers one weekend. Woooohoooo.


----------



## chi1cabby

KingJimmy said:


> Honestly, how could anybody expect Uber to advertise or speak to what your net profits potential will be? I don't think it's fair to expect them to do such. It's up to the individual to figure that out.


Well Uber actually advertises "Fares" as Driver Earnings. But in fact, Fares are an avg. 28% lower than it's payouts to Drivers. A more ethical outfit would at least use the lower figure as *Driver Earnings**.
*** Before Driver Expenses.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> I'm sure a lot of people blindly go into it. Just like a lot of people blindly sign mortgage documents (which is an issue!).


Yep, Exactly. It's called trust, even if misplaced.



> I've seen otherwise reasonable people do stupid things financially, because they let emotion get in the way.


Wonderful comment. Fits me perfectly. I didn't do any research into Uber other than reading their website info. Big mistake.



> But to that point, I think it's also wrong to do as many do on here, and scream about how Uber is one giant scam that the CEO is swindling for his own ends. Because that's not everybody's experience, and frankly, as we've already shown, you CAN make decent money in your spare time doing this gig. Maybe it'd be better to show people how to do that, than to cry the sky is falling?


Really? You think there is any way to make a profit driving for Uber at 70¢ a paid mile? Any way? Please, go ahead and explain away because nobody in the industry seems to know...except of course, Uber management. By the way, are you Uber management?


----------



## J. D.

chi1cabby said:


> Well Uber actually advertises "Fares" as Driver Earnings. But in fact, Fares are an avg. 28% lower than it's payouts to Drivers. A more ethical outfit would at least use the lower figure as *Driver Earnings**.
> *** Before Driver Expenses.


Gross fares are also reported to the IRS as driver's earning. Even the Safe Rider Fee. Now, as has been pointed out, drivers should be business management professionals and should just know they have to deduct Uber's fees from their taxes. That H&R preparer may not know how Uber works although I'm sure they're catching on fast.


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> Yep, Exactly. It's called trust, even if misplaced.
> 
> Wonderful comment. Fits me perfectly. I didn't do any research into Uber other than reading their website info. Big mistake.
> 
> Really? You think there is any way to make a profit driving for Uber at 70¢ a paid mile? Any way? Please, go ahead and explain away because nobody in the industry seems to know...except of course, Uber management. By the way, are you Uber management?


At 70 cents a mile pay, I would be out. You would need to drive 60 miles an hour just to make $18 if you had .25 cents per mile costs. Being that most people probably only do about 25 miles in a good hour, you would only make about $8 an hour at that point.

To me, such isn't worth my time.


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> Please, go ahead and explain away because nobody in the industry seems to know...except of course, Uber management. By the way, are you Uber management?


I wish I were Uber management!


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> Yep, Exactly. It's called trust, even if misplaced.
> 
> Wonderful comment. Fits me perfectly. I didn't do any research into Uber other than reading their website info. Big mistake.
> 
> Really? You think there is any way to make a profit driving for Uber at 70¢ a paid mile? Any way? Please, go ahead and explain away because nobody in the industry seems to know...except of course, Uber management. By the way, are you Uber management?


I have spoken to Uber management about this at a function I was at. Their response was "I have no idea how people are making money at those rates" (when speaking about the price cuts in the US.

So even they can't figure it out.


----------



## KingJimmy

Actionjax said:


> I have spoken to Uber management about this at a function I was at. Their response was "I have no idea how people are making money at those rates" (when speaking about the price cuts in the US.
> 
> So even they can't figure it out.


If you don't factor in depreciation, you will make a few bucks. But nothing worth writing home about. I would imagine that most people doing it for a couple weeks at that rate would eventually notice it.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> I agree net profits are not part of what Uber talks about. anyone becoming a business owner should know simple math and understand how to run a profitable business.


This is true. In your opinion, how many new Uber drivers do you think go into driving as a Business Venture and how many go into it as a Part Time Job? Really, I'd like to know your opinion. No need for facts at this point. Opinion works fine.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> I have spoken to Uber management about this at a function I was at. Their response was "I have no idea how people are making money at those rates" (when speaking about the price cuts in the US.
> 
> So even they can't figure it out.


Wow! Just wow!


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> If you don't factor in depreciation, you will make a few bucks. But nothing worth writing home about. I would imagine that most people doing it for a couple weeks at that rate would eventually notice it.


Agreed, or repairs, or oil changes you have done yet, or... well, you get my point.


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> Agreed, or repairs, or oil changes you have done yet, or... well, you get my point.


For somebody looking to score some quick cash, who plans on doing it for only a month, whatever their reasoning might be, it could help tidy somebody over. You'd be nuts... Or just insanely desperate to do it for any other reason or long duration of time.

My guess is somebody might need some drug money


----------



## KingJimmy

Actionjax said:


> I have spoken to Uber management about this at a function I was at. Their response was "I have no idea how people are making money at those rates" (when speaking about the price cuts in the US.
> 
> So even they can't figure it out.


If prostitution ever becomes legal, they stand to make a ton of money off this app using it for other ways. Imagine pinging the closest hooker?


----------



## J. D.

Okay guys and gals. Thanks for the chats. This company has angered me so much it has consumed me. I've got to back off for a little while to gather my thoughts. I'm still pushing forward with the news piece at my TV station but it will be a few more days out.


----------



## J. D.

As my final post for the day (okay, keep the applause to a low roar), I leave with this:

Uber could be a great company. But unless they realize the wake of destruction they are creating and raise rates to a reasonable level so everyone can profit, get rid of the gimmicks like surges or twisted ratings systems, and treat their drivers as real partners, I see nothing but deception and exploitation, sadly I suspect to their ultimate demise.


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> This is true. In your opinion, how many new Uber drivers do you think go into driving as a Business Venture and how many go into it as a Part Time Job? Really, I'd like to know your opinion. No need for facts at this point. Opinion works fine.


In my neck of the woods I would say there are more part time than full time doing UberX. I seen a poster in their office that said they have about 80% part time drivers as of November.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

KingJimmy said:


> You are correct, my income from my other job, which I use to pay my cell phone with, auto taxes, insurance, etc, does "subsidize" my Uber business. It's what makes it possible for Uber to be a profitable venture for me on a part-time basis. Indeed, it seems very unlikely that Uber would be a sustainable and profitable for me to do without some sort of subsidy. Without my other sources of household income, I probably could not afford to do Uber. Like I've said all along, I don't think too many people can make it work as a full-time business. For such I recommend become a regular taxi cab driver.
> 
> But so long as I subsidize my business, it'll remain a profitable side gig. That's really all there is too it. Me subsidizing my own side gig is fundamentally no different than the government subsidizing student loans, mortgages, or any number of businesses that depend on grants or other tax payer funded incentives to operate. Both are potentially unsustainable long term. Once somebody pulls the plug, the game is over.
> 
> But so long as I subsidize myself, I actually stand to generate profit. Just because it's subsidized doesn't make the profit any less real. And with my extra money, I'm doing things like paying down debt, increasing my savings, and hopefully fund some stock purchases long term. Such things ultimately increase my net worth, no matter the juggling act I undertake to do it.


But that's like a Mcdonalds employee saying $7.25 per hour is fine for me because I'm already living with my parents so I don't have any expenses.

Just because your other job (or your parents) are making it "profitable" (by your definition, not mine) does not mean it's not exploitation.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> For a living, I get the joy of working out of my home. I'm a remote user. Using JD's logic,
> 
> Ok, so it looks like we pretty much agree. Or at least are close enough.
> 
> I would liken Uber's advertisement of making $25 an hour to the same thing as Snickers does, or Sprite. Does Snickers satisfy your hunger? Does Sprite quench your thirst? Sorta. But we all know that's a bunch of crap. Eating a Snickers bar may tie you over in a pinch, but it'll make you more hungry long term. Sprite, it may wet your lips, but it doesn't replenish your body. I'm not sure I would call that predatory (then again, I work in the mortgage industry!), but it is definitely something somebody shouldn't naively jump into, or look at as an iron clad contract and promise.


King, at $25/hour gross, I realistically take home $17/hour after Uber's cut (X & XL). That's the first deception. I could never earn $25/hr consistently. We could argue all day about who's to blame. It's easy in my veiw. Uber created the advertisement.

The point is, Uber created the deception and there are plenty, thousands, that will unwittingly fall for it. I did for just a very short time. Foolish me.... There are plenty of things I can do on the side to get my tax write-offs without making a greedy $billion coporation stinking rich from me.

Oh, by the way. The snickers ad is just fine for me. If I eat a 16oz steak with all the trimmings, I still get hungry again. Dang it, if I could just wean myself off food, I could save thousands!


----------



## KingJimmy

Fuzzyelvis said:


> But that's like a Mcdonalds employee saying $7.25 per hour is fine for me because I'm already living with my parents so I don't have any expenses.
> 
> Just because your other job (or your parents) are making it "profitable" (by your definition, not mine) does not mean it's not exploitation.


Everybody has a different set of circumstances. If mom and dad are letting you live in their basement, and have given you a free car to Uber with, if you are able to capitalize off the entire situation, then good for you. Money in the bank account is money in the bank account.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> Everybody has a different set of circumstances. If mom and dad are letting you live in their basement, and have given you a free car to Uber with, if you are able to capitalize off the entire situation, then good for you. Money in the bank account is money in the bank account.


That's absolutely true, it's money in your bank account. Now the exploitation got shifted to Mom and Dad to cover, it didn't disappear.


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> King, at $25/hour gross, I realistically take home $17/hour after Uber's cut (X & XL). That's the first deception. I could never earn $25/hr consistently. We could argue all day about who's to blame. It's easy in my veiw. Uber created the advertisement.
> 
> The point is, Uber created the deception and there are plenty, thousands, that will unwittingly fall for it. I did for just a very short time. Foolish me.... There are plenty of things I can do on the side to get my tax write-offs without making a greedy $billion coporation stinking rich from me.
> 
> Oh, by the way. The snickers ad is just fine for me. If I eat a 16oz steak with all the trimmings, I still get hungry again. Dang it, if I could just wean myself off food, I could save thousands!


Interestingly enough, it was never very clear to me even when I was signing up what sort of money could be made from this. I only signed up from Uber after a personal finance blog I followed suggested it was a great way to earn some income on the side. I was intrigued, and since it wasn't costing me anything to sign up, I decided to give it a whirl. It was only after a week of reading stuff online and seeing some YouTube videos that I began to see the earning potential. I didn't get taken in by ads so much as word of mouth.


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> That's absolutely true, it's money in your bank account. Now the exploitation got shifted to Mom and Dad to cover, it didn't disappear.


That's capitalism baby. Making the most of what you got, plain and simple.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> Interestingly enough, it was never very clear to me even when I was signing up what sort of money could be made from this. I only signed up from Uber after a personal finance blog I followed suggested it was a great way to earn some income on the side. I was intrigued, and since it wasn't costing me anything to sign up, I decided to give it a whirl. It was only after a week of reading stuff online and seeing some YouTube videos that I began to see the earning potential. I didn't get taken in by ads so much as word of mouth.


Yep, not everyone was suckered in from an advertisement like me. I've seen many of those YouTube videos now, after the fact. They are the full spectrum of attitudes.

It did cost me. $110 for physical and $30 for car inspection, and that didn't guarantee me an approval. I could have easily been out $140 and never drive, and I thought that was going to happen. They kept rejecting the car title because my wife is listed first.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> That's capitalism baby. Making the most of what you got, plain and simple.


Hey King, got a sofa I can come crash on for a few months? I don't need to pay you anything cause you already have it anyway.


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> Hey King, got a sofa I can come crash on for a few months? I don't need to pay you anything cause you already have it anyway.


Unless you have a birth certificate with my name on it, sorry.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> Unless you have a birth certificate with my name on it, sorry.


Okay, now where did I put those blank certificates...


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> Okay, now where did I put those blank certificates...


Ask Obama.


----------



## djino

J. D. said:


> I now own a brand-new TV news station. With almost all of my assets tied up in the station start-up, and believing in Uber's hype, I erroneously thought I could bring in some personal cash for a few weeks by working the weekends Ubering while my station was building revenues. Their hype made it sound wonderful. I also thought it was a good way to meet people around town. Uber was a joke as a driver. I am a seasoned businessman with the ability to see through the predatory practices and deception perpertrated by Uber to enrich themselves, even if it was after-the-fact. I am now preparing a news story at my station to be aired very soon about the Uber lies and how they prey upon the weak minded and inexperienced. I'll be more than happy to send a news crew to visit you so you can tell us why you are the exception. I'll post the info here soon when the segment is ready. If some of the current lawsuits prevail, I plan to follow up with one of my own, not for my enrichment, but because I deplore the acts of a multi-billion dollar company preying on the unsuspecting public.


Let us know when/where it airs.

djino


----------



## limepro

I did $35.9 gross per hour which gave me $28 per hour net - expenses.


----------



## limepro

And today I don't work at all so I am going to take my oldest out, either take him back to the children's museum, maybe a movie and some lunch, we shall see.


----------



## limepro

Decided to take the munchkin to the everglades for an alligator boat tour.


----------



## J. D.

djino said:


> Let us know when/where it airs.
> 
> djino


You got it. You'll be able to watch it online from anywhere.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> I did $35.9 gross per hour which gave me $28 per hour net - expenses.


Congrats! You made money. This is what the base fare should look like everyday, all day, not just surge.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> In my neck of the woods I would say there are more part time than full time doing UberX. I seen a poster in their office that said they have about 80% part time drivers as of November.


Sorry, I guess I didn't phrase the question correctly. I meant side-line business versus side-line job, not full-time vs part-time.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> I did $35.9 gross per hour which gave me $28 per hour net - expenses.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Do you ever hear any complaints from the passengers about the prices during surge?


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> Sorry, I guess I didn't phrase the question correctly. I meant side-line business versus side-line job, not full-time vs part-time.


So again it should be clear what I said. Most have this as a side income. I don't care what you classify it as to justify what you are saying. Point is most have other jobs and not just Uber as a primary income source.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> So again it should be clear what I said. Most have this as a side income. I don't care what you classify it as to justify what you are saying. Point is most have other jobs and not just Uber as a primary income source.


O,-
__/


----------



## limepro

J. D. said:


> Congrats! You made money. This is what the base fare should look like everyday, all day, not just surge.


You are correct it should but unfortunately we don't decide the rates and either make due or don't drive.


----------



## J. D.

limepro said:


> You are correct it should but unfortunately we don't decide the rates and either make due or don't drive.


Couldn't have said it better myself (I loved the pun on due/do).


----------



## limepro

J. D. said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself (I loved the pun on due/do).


Thought you might.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> What extra insurance are you paying? You need insurance to even drive regardless of Uber.





Fuzzyelvis said:


> I've been doing different contractor gigs since 1991. I started with uber this January so didn't have them on my taxes thus year. But I don't know why it would be that much more difficult. Just more to deduct really to get to the same "net".
> 
> What makes absolutely no sense is they are saying WE are collecting the payment from the customer and then paying uber. Yet WE don't even know the customer's name and uber won't even give it to us if we ask.


This is part of the SHAM to try to continue to deny that they are a transportation company. You are exactly right. THEY charge the fee. THEY earn the gross fare. THEY pay me whatever they decide. (Seen the new sliding payout schedule? Think any "partner" agreed to it?)

This has to be one of the most UNETHICAL companies I've ever seen in my lifetime. I still do not understand why anyone, unless they are an Uber shill or just brand new to the Uber world, would get on this forum and support them. But then again, I know ethics isn't important to everyone. I see the Uber cheerleader just like the jerk who cuts in line. "Hehe, if you can't figure out a way to get ahead of everybody else in line, it's your own fault, you dumbass. Screw everybody. I got mine."


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> This is part of the Sham to try to continue to deny that they are a transportation company. You are exactly right. THEY charge the fee. THEY earn the gross fare. THEY pay me whatever they decide. (Seen the new sliding payout schedule? Think any "partner" agreed to it?)
> 
> This has to be one of the most UNETHICAL companies I've ever seen in my lifetime. I still do not understand why anyone, unless they are an Uber shill or just brand new to the Uber world, would get on this forum and support them. But then again, I know ethics isn't important to everyone. I see the Uber cheerleader just like the jerk who cuts in line. "Hehe, if you can't figure out a way to get ahead of everybody else in line, it's your own fault, you dumbass. Screw everybody. I got mine."


If Uber is the most unethical company you have ever seen then you got your eyes closed to a lot of what goes on in the world. You can call other drivers who make things work cheerleaders all you want. But you are bringing little facts to your statements and the majority have and can make it work for their needs.

Also you fail to see the transportation industry on the whole has been exploitive for years. Uber if anything just jumped right in and fixed a great many things for passengers. If that was not the case Uber would not exist.

You can blame Uber for all that is miserable for the world or you can make the choice like you have and not support it or drive for them. You can convince passengers that there re better alternatives to Uber. In the end you better be sure that it is. Or it is you who will be called out not as a cheerleader but someone who wants to go back to 1971 and favor a system that is outdated and not very customer centric. Then you will be classified yourself as a resister to change.

Is Uber a force to drive change? It can be....both good and bad. Lets face it Beck one of the largest taxi outfits in Toronto launched their new Taxi App. This wouldn't have happened if they weren't worried about Uber. There was no reason to change.

So before you start down the path that people here are cheering for Uber I think you need to look that most have more time under our belts and can look at things objectively to our own situations. What works for me won't work for others. It's a bad deal in some markets and better in others.

Fact here is you can try and paint it all as a general statement on Uber. But all you are doing is talking about yourself in every sentence on what Uber means to you.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> If Uber is the most unethical company you have ever seen then you got your eyes closed to a lot of what goes on in the world. You can call other drivers who make things work cheerleaders all you want.


Tell me again which Uber office you work in?

Read it again... "one of the most UNETHICAL". I've seen plenty in my years... yeah I'm an old man. But Uber takes the prize. You know why?


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> Is Uber a force to drive change? It can be....both good and bad.


Never said nothing good hasn't come out of it. I've stated many, many times on this forum, it is a genius concept. Moving forward with new technologies.

AJ, I'm willing to bet you at this point, I've done 1000x more research on Uber than you. I'm still working on the TV news story. I keep uncovering layer and layer of deception and greed. It seems to have no end.


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> Tell me again which Uber office you work in?
> 
> Read it again... "one of the most UNETHICAL". I've seen plenty in my years... yeah I'm an old man. But Uber takes the prize. You know why?


Actually don't care why you think. It's your opinion. You should go do some research on Enron or better still try any of the wall street firms who went bust in 2007.

And again you only see your own issues of being a driver and apply that to the company being the MOST UNETHICAL.

I have seen far worse. I'm not saying Uber is a gem here. Far from it. But their day is coming where they will get hit hard with the reality stick. Till then let them screw with the industry a bit. It's needed.


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> Never said nothing good hasn't come out of it. I've stated many, many times on this forum, it is a genius concept. Moving forward with new technologies.
> 
> AJ, I'm willing to bet you at this point, I've done 1000x more research on Uber than you. I'm still working on the TV news story. I keep uncovering layer and layer of deception and greed. It seems to have no end.


Sorry what TV Station do you own again? Does it broadcast? Internet TV on YouTube anyone can do. That's not TV. Neither is a public access channel. And if you have uncovered 1000x more than I have then good for you. Lot's of people can make claims without evidence to back it up. I think I have done the same on here many times. I wish you luck dismantling Uber. But every good journalist puts their bias behind if it's news. What you are putting together sounds more like an editorial comment. Or an investigative report.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> Actually don't care why you think.


So why did you reply and why should I care what you think? We should just both quit posting both our opinions, right? Oh, I see, I should just quit posting mine. Got it.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> I wish you luck dismantling Uber.


Here is the biggest fallacy in your attempt at demeaning me. I have no desire to dismantle Uber. My desire is for them to operate ethically, pay a driver a reasonable wage, and stop the deception and predatory practices.

I may fail in my attempt because at this point, I see little postive ethics in their behavior and only regulators or lawsuits will make a difference.


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> So why did you reply and why should I care what you think? We should just both quit posting both our opinions, right? Oh, I see, I should just quit posting mine. Got it.


Not at all. You opinion is a valuable one. I completely support it. What I don't support is calling everyone who finds any sort of success on Uber who choses to talk about it a "Cheerleader" or "Must work for Uber". Those kind of statements are attacking others and their opinions because they don't align with your own.

I got a good sense on your posts on your brand of thinking. It doesn't align with myself so I chose to let you vent about it with little regard on how I move forward in life. That's why I stated I don't care about what you think?



J. D. said:


> But Uber takes the prize. You know why?


You asked me directly that question. I was just saving you the trouble as it will just fall on my deaf ears.


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> Here is the biggest fallacy in your attempt at demeaning me. I have no desire to dismantle Uber. My desire is for them to operate ethically, pay a driver a reasonable wage, and stop the deception and predatory practices.
> 
> I may fail in my attempt because at this point, I see little postive ethics in their behavior and only regulators or lawsuits will make a difference.


Again why SHOULD they pay drivers a reasonable wage. If it's not reasonable drivers will stop. And they do. That's part of being an independent contractor. You don't like the price you are getting for beans you grow something else or suffer. Uber is not a company that employs anyone. So you don't get a wage. So they don't need to be fair.

As for false advertising? Well that's a different story. you may want to explore that route.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> As for false advertising? Well that's a different story. you may want to explore that route.


Now you're getting there. Their advertising is deceptive. It's my no. 1 complaint and the basis for everything. Then that leads to all of the other issues. Reasonable drivers may not stop for lots of reasons. I don't need to list them here, you know 'em.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> Again why SHOULD they pay drivers a reasonable wage..


Okay so here's how I see it. I'm looking at the big picture and you're looking at your personal situation. Here's an analogy. I know it's not a great analogy so go easy on the analogy bashing.

The monster (think Godzilla) is tearing through town crushing homes and vehicles. I say, let's capture him, tie him up, and tame him so he can't hurt so many people. Then you say, but if you tickle him right here between the toes, he won't crush your house, he'll move on to other homes. So we should let him run free and let everyone figure out how to tickle his toes for themselves.

Let the analogy bashing begin...


----------



## KingJimmy

If I make the most of my situation, I expect they'll make the most of theirs. Just as pax are of theirs. I don't see how them doing this makes them an evil Godzilla monster. They are no more a monster than I am.

Nobody is forced to use Uber.

It's just capitalism.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> If I make the most of my situation, I expect they'll make the most of theirs. Just as pax are of theirs. I don't see how them doing this makes them an evil Godzilla monster. They are no more a monster than I am.
> 
> Nobody is forced to use Uber.
> 
> It's just capitalism.


That's exactly what I thought would be the first objection. Although I figured it would be more like, "I don't see the company as a monster, but as a puppy that might bite you if you pet it wrong."


----------



## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> That's exactly what I thought would be the first objection. Although I figured it would be more like, "I don't see the company as a monster, but as a puppy that might bite you if you pet it wrong."


It's just the market. Right now Uber is just trying to find that happy market equilibrium. Eventually they'll strike the balance... or they'll go out of business. It's part of the entire creative and destructive nature of the market. It's Adam Smiths invisible hand at work.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

J. D. said:


> Never said nothing good hasn't come out of it. I've stated many, many times on this forum, it is a genius concept. Moving forward with new technologies.
> 
> AJ, I'm willing to bet you at this point, I've done 1000x more research on Uber than you. I'm still working on the TV news story. I keep uncovering layer and layer of deception and greed. It seems to have no end.


Have you seen the Kansas City mayor's speech about Uber? If you search youtube for Kansas City uber mayor it will come up.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

KingJimmy said:


> If I make the most of my situation, I expect they'll make the most of theirs. Just as pax are of theirs. I don't see how them doing this makes them an evil Godzilla monster. They are no more a monster than I am.
> 
> Nobody is forced to use Uber.
> 
> It's just capitalism.


Unbridled capitalism looks a lot like feudalism to me.


----------



## Actionjax

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Unbridled capitalism looks a lot like feudalism to me.


I would agree. When Capitalism is involved with what an essential service is. (Energy, food, Water). But Uber is not an essential service. If anything it's a luxury good. You don't need it to survive in this world. No different than your cell phone.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

J. D. said:


> Now you're getting there. Their advertising is deceptive. It's my no. 1 complaint and the basis for everything. Then that leads to all of the other issues. Reasonable drivers may not stop for lots of reasons. I don't need to list them here, you know 'em.


POST # 256 / J. D. : Bostonian Bison
finds that chi1cabby
utilized a Particular "Turn of Phrase",
to describe fighting their "shenanigans",
with his "...shining a Light on Their
Bottomless Duplicity". BOOYAH!


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> Okay so here's how I see it. I'm looking at the big picture and you're looking at your personal situation. Here's an analogy. I know it's not a great analogy so go easy on the analogy bashing.
> 
> The monster (think Godzilla) is tearing through town crushing homes and vehicles. I say, let's capture him, tie him up, and tame him so he can't hurt so many people. Then you say, but if you tickle him right here between the toes, he won't crush your house, he'll move on to other homes. So we should let him run free and let everyone figure out how to tickle his toes for themselves.
> 
> Let the analogy bashing begin...


No need to bash it. I find it humorous. But Uber is no Godzilla. More like a puppy. Everyone likes the little puppy, but when it grows up gets teeth and starts to bite no one likes the puppy anymore they seen in the ad they fell in love with. When all they need to do is understand what the dog may have a purpose to them. Like a guard dog. Where others who were not prepared will just drop the dog off at the pound and move on with their lives. And could be a little wiser.

In the end if there is no more demand for bad puppies they may come trained ahead of time or they just stop breeding them or offer inceptives to make owning that puppy worth it.

Puppies are not for everyone.


----------



## KingJimmy

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Unbridled capitalism looks a lot like feudalism to me.


This isn't anywhere near approaching such


----------



## DrJeecheroo

It's all communism.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> It's just the market. Right now Uber is just trying to find that happy market equilibrium. Eventually they'll strike the balance... or they'll go out of business. It's part of the entire creative and destructive nature of the market. It's Adam Smiths invisible hand at work.


Well, I kind of disagree. I'm still digging but I've uncovered information that points to this. It seems their primary objective right now is to raise valuation for the company in a planned IPO. They can only do this with more customers, more drivers, more corporate revenues. Market equilibrium has nothing to do with it right now and I have no idea where you got that information.

Their plan calls for drastic cuts to drivers pay, reduce fares to the lowest in the industry, raise their percentage cut so their profits increase substantially, and this should accomplish their objective. So far, it is working. The company valuation is going through the roof. They have become one of the hottest new start-ups in Silicon Valley.

But I contend they are doing this at the expense of the drivers and the majority of the drivers simply do not know this. Uber keeps deceptively telling them, "work whenever you want, make $50k a year" which is a bold face lie. Maybe when rates were over $2/mile that was possible. Not now. The company's continued emails and texts to drivers imply to the driver that even at low rates, their making big bucks. They have become the unwitting pawns in this deceptive business plan.

My prognostication, take it or leave it: They get their IPO, the founders and original investors get out stinking rich, the stock plummets and the company folds. Lyft and Sidecar take the market.

Sorry to say but I was involved with a tech company that did just this exact same thing. I even met with the CEO to discuss future plans for the company's services, but after learning of their master plan, I backed off. Yep, happened just like that. Six months after I met with the CEO, they no longer existed. Lot of people out of work, lots of lost money by investors, but the founders got rich.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

KingJimmy said:


> This isn't anywhere near approaching such


The people creating the wealth are not controlling it.


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> Well, I kind of disagree. I'm still digging but I've uncovered information that points to this. It seems their primary objective right now is to raise valuation for the company in a planned IPO. They can only do this with more customers, more drivers, more corporate revenues. Market equilibrium has nothing to do with it right now and I have no idea where you got that information.
> 
> Their plan calls for drastic cuts to drivers pay, reduce fares to the lowest in the industry, raise their percentage cut so their profits increase substantially, and this should accomplish their objective. So far, it is working. The company valuation is going through the roof. They have become one of the hottest new start-ups in Silicon Valley.
> 
> But I contend they are doing this at the expense of the drivers and the majority of the drivers simply do not know this. Uber keeps deceptively telling them, "work whenever you want, make $50k a year" which is a bold face lie. Maybe when rates were over $2/mile that was possible. Not now. The company's continued emails and texts to drivers imply to the driver that even at low rates, their making big bucks. They have become the unwitting pawns in this deceptive business plan.
> 
> My prognostication, take it or leave it: They get their IPO, the founders and original investors get out stinking rich, the stock plummets and the company folds. Lyft and Sidecar take the market.
> 
> Sorry to say but I was involved with a tech company that did just this exact same thing. I even met with the CEO to discuss future plans for the company's services, but after learning of their master plan, I backed off. Yep, happened just like that. Six months after I met with the CEO, they no longer existed. Lot of people out of work, lots of lost money by investors, but the founders got rich.


The bumping of their IPO is not new or secret news. We all can figure out that plan. And you won't see the company fold. You will however see some buyouts by some major players. A company does not funnel a ton of money on driverless cars when there is no long term game. The current management won't be in place. When they go public, the start up CEO will be bounced by investors in favor of someone with experience. The board will be replaced and Uber will cater better to the marketplace. It will be another Taxi App and the fares will get better for drivers and worse for consumers.

And you can say making $50K a year is not possible. But all they need to do is show one marketplace for one driver who is doing that and they are not lying. "Someone did it" It's like saying "Loose 100lbs on weightwatchers" The small print says not typical results. But people buy into the hype. Uber needs that kind of disclosure. But you will still have people signing up in droves.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> No need to bash it. I find it humorous. But Uber is no Godzilla. More like a puppy.
> Puppies are not for everyone.


A $40-billion puppy.


----------



## Actionjax

J. D. said:


> A $40-billion puppy.


That's the evaluation. It's 50 Billion now by latest estimates. Doesn't mean they are worth that in cash. Speculations are just like hot air. They make things rise but they are still just air.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> The bumping of their IPO is not new or secret news. We all can figure out that plan. And you won't see the company fold. You will however see some buyouts by some major players. A company does not funnel a ton of money on driverless cars when there is no long term game. The current management won't be in place. When they go public, the start up CEO will be bounced by investors in favor of someone with experience. The board will be replaced and Uber will cater better to the marketplace. It will be another Taxi App and the fares will get better for drivers and worse for consumers.
> 
> And you can say making $50K a year is not possible. But all they need to do is show one marketplace for one driver who is doing that and they are not lying. "Someone did it" It's like saying "Loose 100lbs on weightwatchers" The small print says not typical results. But people buy into the hype. Uber needs that kind of disclosure. But you will still have people signing up in droves.


Will just have to see how it plays out. Your forecast is just as plausable.

I agree on the disclosure. That may be all I win if I win is Uber's addition of a disclosure. But I'll count that as progress if it happens.


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> That's the evaluation. It's 50 Billion now by latest estimates. Doesn't mean they are worth that in cash. Speculations are just like hot air. They make things rise but they are still just air.


OMG


----------



## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> . A company does not funnel a ton of money on driverless cars when there is no long term game.


I did read somewhere about Uber looking into driverless cars but I haven't seen where they are funneling money into it already. Off to Google I go...


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## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> . A company does not funnel a ton of money on driverless cars when there is no long term game. .


So did you mean by "funneling money" you meant funding the research? I haven't found anything else that would indicate they are going foward with driverless cars yet and financing a start up. I do believe it is the coming thing though.


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## J. D.

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Have you seen the Kansas City mayor's speech about Uber? If you search youtube for Kansas City uber mayor it will come up.


Thank you. Great video.


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## J. D.

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Have you seen the Kansas City mayor's speech about Uber? If you search youtube for Kansas City uber mayor it will come up.


I love his comment: "It bothers me that people will simply accept whatever they receive on an email, without any more knowledge, without making anymore investigation, ...".

I personally see this behavior day in and day out all around me. I am regretablly guilty sometimes but most of the time I try not to be. This is EXACTLY my contention with Uber's deceptive marketing. And don't you think for a minute they don't know what their doing.


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## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> Well, I kind of disagree. I'm still digging but I've uncovered information that points to this. It seems their primary objective right now is to raise valuation for the company in a planned IPO. They can only do this with more customers, more drivers, more corporate revenues. Market equilibrium has nothing to do with it right now and I have no idea where you got that information.
> 
> Their plan calls for drastic cuts to drivers pay, reduce fares to the lowest in the industry, raise their percentage cut so their profits increase substantially, and this should accomplish their objective. So far, it is working. The company valuation is going through the roof. They have become one of the hottest new start-ups in Silicon Valley.
> 
> But I contend they are doing this at the expense of the drivers and the majority of the drivers simply do not know this. Uber keeps deceptively telling them, "work whenever you want, make $50k a year" which is a bold face lie. Maybe when rates were over $2/mile that was possible. Not now. The company's continued emails and texts to drivers imply to the driver that even at low rates, their making big bucks. They have become the unwitting pawns in this deceptive business plan.
> 
> My prognostication, take it or leave it: They get their IPO, the founders and original investors get out stinking rich, the stock plummets and the company folds. Lyft and Sidecar take the market.
> 
> Sorry to say but I was involved with a tech company that did just this exact same thing. I even met with the CEO to discuss future plans for the company's services, but after learning of their master plan, I backed off. Yep, happened just like that. Six months after I met with the CEO, they no longer existed. Lot of people out of work, lots of lost money by investors, but the founders got rich.


Shoring up your balance sheet by being cut throat, so that you can get a ton of cash with your IPO while simultaneously trying to bankrupt your competition isn't them trying to find balance in the market place? Then I don't know what is!

Either way, even if this is just a crazy pump and dump scheme, or a hope that somebody like Google swoops in to buy them out, I'm ok with that. If Lyft wins, I'm game to pickup fares for them too!

Honestly, I don't really care what they are up to. I don't own shares in their stock. I'm not an employee of theirs. As long as I'm happy with the current mutual arrangement, that's all that matters at the end of the day. Once I'm no longer happy with it, I'll stop doing runs on their behalf.

Heck, if we want to get into nefarious motives and uncovering secret plots, maybe we should look at your motives?

After all, you have a profit incentive to drum up a half-baked news story for your little TV station. You stand to reap untold numbers of dollars by doing some "investigative journalism." I can expect you to be fair and balanced, presenting both sides of the story... Right? You'll happily tell of how there are people that make actual money off this gig, and how they do it?

My guess is that it'll be an unrelenting bash against Uber. After all, it's why you come on here. Your profile is dedicated to that cause.


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## J. D.

Actionjax said:


> We all can figure out that plan.


I think you give way too much credit to UberX drivers for the financial activities of $billion dollar company. Most are just trying to get through each day without personal financial catastrophe.


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## KingJimmy

Fuzzyelvis said:


> The people creating the wealth are not controlling it.


That's exactly what happens in a capitalist society. Workers, be they 1099 or W2, have no ownership over somebody else's profits. Workers work for wages, not a share of corporate profits.


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## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> Shoring up your balance sheet by being cut throat, so that you can get a ton of cash with your IPO while simultaneously trying to bankrupt your competition isn't them trying to find balance in the market place? .


Absolutely not.


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## UberXking

JD,
I just read your post. For $420 you can spend a day with me and watch and learn while I make $300 or more. We meet for 15 min so you get a chance to see my Uber and Sherpa statements and for free I show you how I spend less than .05 a mile on my vehicle less gas from purchase till retirement . I have over 3500 trips and highest avg fair and income for X in my city


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## Leoyzag

Stop complaining and stop driving for u ber. If you dont like it then stop! If you do stop what do any of you care about what others are or are not making and doing with THEIR property and time. If people would just worry about themselves and stop comparing their lives to others we would all be better off and there would be alot less angry people out there.


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## Fuzzyelvis

Leoyzag said:


> Stop complaining and stop driving for u ber. If you dont like it then stop! If you do stop what do any of you care about what others are or are not making and doing with THEIR property and time. If people would just worry about themselves and stop comparing their lives to others we would all be better off and there would be alot less angry people out there.


Yes that's true. ******** are just so damn uppity comparing themselves to white folk. They'd be so much happier if they'd just stop doing that doncha think?


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## J. D.

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Yes that's true. ******** are just so damn uppity comparing themselves to white folk. They'd be so much happier if they'd just stop doing that doncha think?


Hey Fuzzy, how'd you know I was so uppity? You been peeking?


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## J. D.

Leoyzag said:


> Stop complaining and stop driving for u ber. If you dont like it then stop! If you do stop what do any of you care about what others are or are not making and doing with THEIR property and time. If people would just worry about themselves and stop comparing their lives to others we would all be better off and there would be alot less angry people out there.


Thanks for reaching out. As far as your complaint about my complaint, expect an answer within 48 hours.


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## Leoyzag

Im not white. I just have a positive outlook on life and all people. Even though so many out there dont. Thats whats sad about society. Life is too short to compare. I am greatful for what and who i have in my life. I used to be very negative and where was it getting me? No where. I changed my attitude and it changed my life.


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## Leoyzag

J. D. said:


> Thanks for reaching out. As far as your complaint about my complaint, expect an answer within 48 hours.


Huh?


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## Leoyzag

I was not complaining. I was expressing my thoughts about the subject/thread. My comment is to anyone who is not happy with uber or lyft.

I simply dont understand why if people dont like it why they just dont quit?

Help me understand.


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## J. D.

Leoyzag said:


> I was not complaining. I was expressing my thoughts about the subject/thread. My comment is to anyone who is not happy with uber or lyft.
> 
> I simply dont understand why if people dont like it why they just dont quit?
> 
> Help me understand.


I know. Humor attempt, fail.

I have not driven (quit) in weeks and won't at Uber's ridiculous rates. I did enjoy the work. Would consider Lyft but not in my town.


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## Leoyzag

Sorry to hear that. Good luck at anything else you do in life! I wish you well.


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## J. D.

Leoyzag said:


> Im not white. I just have a positive outlook on life and all people. Even though so many out there dont. Thats whats sad about society. Life is too short to compare. I am greatful for what and who i have in my life. I used to be very negative and where was it getting me? No where. I changed my attitude and it changed my life.


Good attitude.


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## J. D.

Leoyzag said:


> Sorry to hear that. Good luck at anything else you do in life! I wish you well.


Thanks. So what's the rate you're driving at in your location?


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## Leoyzag

Dont know. Dont care.its more than i had and i work when i want. Anything i make is a blessing and icing on my cake.


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## chi1cabby

J. D. said:


> Thanks. So what's the rate you're driving at in your location?





Leoyzag said:


> Dont know. Dont care.its more than i had and i work when i want. Anything i make is a blessing and icing on my cake.


An Ideal Uber Driver! Ignorance must really be bliss.
The more "Low Information" a Driver, the Better, as far Uber's concerned!


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## Leoyzag

Again, so dont drive.


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## chi1cabby

Leoyzag said:


> Again, so dont drive.


The most trite, clichéd comment by those who have minimal grasp of the issues.


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## Lidman

Leoyzag said:


> Huh?


I think this one takes the cake.


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## Actionjax

chi1cabby said:


> An Ideal Uber Driver! Ignorance must really be bliss.
> The more "Low Information" a Driver, the Better, as far Uber's concerned!
> 
> View attachment 7613


I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it. As a pro consumer side of things I would be making out like a bandit as a passenger. I would take upper everywhere.

As a driver anywhere you don't get a base in your fare structure it's just asking for trouble. Although there is a $4 minimum fare that beats our $2.75. (Also the per minute is very low.


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## KingJimmy

Actionjax said:


> I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it. As a pro consumer side of things I would be making out like a bandit as a passenger. I would take upper everywhere.
> 
> As a driver anywhere you don't get a base in your fare structure it's just asking for trouble. Although there is a $4 minimum fare that beats our $2.75. (Also the per minute is very low.


The low per minute rate is a great reason to always avoid driving during congestion.


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## J. D.

Leoyzag said:


> Again, so dont drive.


Sigh...


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## Lidman

sniff sniff


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## J. D.

Isn't it amazing?

Many organizations, private and public, engage full-time actuaries that make their sole living from gathering actual data to publish cost information. Such as the US Department of Transportation, who states the average cost, not the highest cost, the AVERAGE cost to operate an automobile (not a taxi) in 2013 was over 59¢ per mile. But we have thousands and thousands of part-time UberX drivers who have outsmarted them all. Hmmm, whose numbers do I trust?

So at an 80¢ ($1.00-20%) paid mile, using the common 1:1 ratio for paid/unpaid miles, I get 40¢/mile for my car. I am only losing 19¢ every mile. Well dang it. I'll push out that oil change, not buy the tires I need cause I don't need another inspection for a year, drop the insurance that covers me and just risk it, repairing the damages caused by puking/careless riders will have to wait, and I'll wash my car myself instead of using the car wash, I won't idle and run the A/C or heat between PAX, I can get my cost down so I break even.

But wait. I'm still getting paid time! I can make it up. Let's see, 15¢ a minute = $9.00/hr? Hooray, I'm beating minimum wage! What? Uber's cut? Oh yeah. Okay, so I'm getting $7.20/hr. At least I'm making money. What? That's only when a passenger is in the car? Dang it. Let see, I'm a smart UberX driver so I minimize my down time. I have passengers nearly 45 minutes of every hour, better than most, none of my passengers make me wait, so I'm making $5.40/hour. Hey, that's not even minimum wage. And from that they expect me to buy bottled water, provide a cell phone and monthly service, and still not get a tip? Hey wait just a minute! They told me I would be earning $25/hour! What gives? They're gonna make $10 billion and I get to work for peanuts?

Something is wrong here.

Dang it! Surges or nothing.


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## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> Isn't it amazing?
> 
> Many organizations, private and public, engage full-time actuaries that make their sole living from gathering actual data to publish cost information. Such as the US Department of Transportation, who states the average cost, not the highest cost, the AVERAGE cost to operate an automobile (not a taxi) in 2013 was over 59¢ per mile. But we have thousands and thousands of part-time UberX drivers who have outsmarted them all. Hmmm, whose numbers do I trust?
> 
> So at an 80¢ ($1.00-20%) paid mile, using the common 1:1 ration for paid/unpaid miles, I get 40¢/mile for my car. I am only losing 19¢ every mile. Well dang it. I'll push out that oil change, not buy the tires I need cause I don't need another inspection for a year, drop the insurance that covers me and just risk it, repairing the damages caused by puking/careless riders will have to wait, and I'll wash my car myself instead of using the car wash, I won't idle and run the A/C or heat between PAX, I can get my cost down so I break even.
> 
> But wait. I'm still getting paid time! I can make it up. Let's see, 15¢ a minute = $9.00/hr? Hooray, I'm beating minimum wage! What? Uber's cut? Oh yeah. Okay, so I'm getting $7.20/hr. At least I'm making money. What? That's only when a passenger is in the car? Dang it. Let see, I'm a smart UberX driver so I minimize my down time. I have passengers nearly 45 minutes of every hour, better than most, none of my passengers make me wait, so I'm making $5.40/hour. Hey, that's not even minimum wage. And from that they expect me to buy bottled water, provide a cell phone and monthly service, and still not get a tip? Hey wait just a minute! They told me I would be earning $25/hour! What gives? They're gonna make $10 billion and I get to work for peanuts?
> 
> Something is wrong here.
> 
> Dang it! Surges or nothing.


It must get really boring repeating the same thing over and over again.


----------



## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> It must get really boring repeating the same thing over and over again.


Nope. Not for me.


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## J. D.

DON'T DRIVER ANOTHER MILE until you've watched this video.

A great video! Remember, this was before that last rate cuts.


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## BeepBeepBarina

Maybe it's your driving which is crap.

Oh and 80% of the world's population live on less than $10/day. Quit moaning princess.


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## J. D.

BeepBeepBarina said:


> Maybe it's your driving which is crap.
> 
> Oh and 80% of the world's population live on less than $10/day. Quit moaning princess.


Hi Travis! Nice of you to drop in for a visit.


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## BeepBeepBarina

Hi Nancy.


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## J. D.

Challenge:


Name any other business that routinely charges their customers double or triple when it gets busy.
Name a single rider who likes surge pricing.


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## BeepBeepBarina

1) Fish market.
2) Who cares.


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## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> Challenge:
> 
> 
> Name any other business that routinely charges their customers double or triple when it gets busy.
> Name a single rider who likes surge pricing.


Hotels and airplanes regularly jack up their rates when demand is high and supply is low. I saw this all the time when I was a business traveler.

Pax might not like it, but if they pay it, oh well.


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## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> Hotels and airplanes regularly jack up their rates when demand is high and supply is low. I saw this all the time when I was a business traveler.
> 
> Pax might not like it, but if they pay it, oh well.


You are correct. Hotels and airlines routinely raise prices with demand. As a consumer, I hate it and avoid it as much as possible. And that's my point.

Passengers may hate it and often feel trapped because it's either that or chance a DUI. (That's been most of my experiences with surges. I realize that there are other situations that cause surge.)

So the only time a driver can really profit at current rates is during surges, and during surges the customers hate it. Really awesome business model, dont you think?


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## ecmic

Most travel options fluctuate pricing throughout the year - trains, planes, even busses. Often pricing will double or more as compared to yearly averages.


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## KingJimmy

J. D. said:


> You are correct. Hotels and airlines routinely raise prices with demand. As a consumer, I hate it and avoid it as much as possible. And that's my point.
> 
> Passengers may hate it and often feel trapped because it's either that or chance a DUI. (That's been most of my experiences with surges. I realize that there are other situations that cause surge.)
> 
> So the only time a driver can really profit at current rates is during surges, and during surges the customers hate it. Really awesome business model, dont you think?


If they weren't paying for an Uber, they'd be hailing a taxi. Either way, they are paying more. I don't have any problem with that.


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## J. D.

KingJimmy said:


> If they weren't paying for an Uber, they'd be hailing a taxi. Either way, they are paying more. I don't have any problem with that.


It's all about perception from the passenger. If Uber went back to their original rates of $2 to $2.50 /mile and eliminated surge pricing, all drivers could make a profit, customers would still pay less than or equal to a taxi but they'd know it is standard pricing and everyone pays the same. They would be content with pricing since they aren't paying double or triple as the next guy.


----------



## Lack9133

J. D. said:


> It's all about perception from the passenger. If Uber went back to their original rates of $2 to $2.50 /mile and eliminated surge pricing, all drivers could make a profit, customers would still pay less than or equal to a taxi but they'd know it is standard pricing and everyone pays the same. They would be content with pricing since they aren't paying double or triple as the next guy.


You're exactly right. It's the reasoning why cab rates are set under a maximum number of permits. The prices may be high in the eyes of the consumer but it gives drivers the incentive to be on the road even when demand is low. When the demand is high, it prevents surcharging on the customer. It also ensures that drivers make a decent living being a full time driver. While that system might increase wait times for the passenger during high demand times, it does prevent surcharging and allows for a driver to make an income as a driver.

The problem from Uber's standpoint is people generally don't care how they get home. They just want a ride now. If a cab is available right in front of someone, that individual will generally take that taxi even if they do charge slightly higher as compared to waiting 5-10 minutes for an Uber to show up to save $5.00. If Uber ever charges the same amount as a taxi, it will completely eliminate the incentive for individuals to bypass the available taxi to wait a few minutes for a rideshare through an app.


----------



## J. D.

Lack9133 said:


> If Uber ever charges the same amount as a taxi, it will completely eliminate the incentive for individuals to bypass the available taxi to wait a few minutes for a rideshare through an app.


Many of my riders stated that they would pay more, as much as a taxi, to get an Uber driver. But saying and doing are not the same. Not sure the incentive would be completely eliminated.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Lack9133 said:


> The problem from Uber's standpoint is people generally don't care how they get home. They just want a ride now. If a cab is available right in front of someone, that individual will generally take that taxi even if they do charge slightly higher as compared to waiting 5-10 minutes for an Uber to show up to save $5.00. If Uber ever charges the same amount as a taxi, it will completely eliminate the incentive for individuals to bypass the available taxi to wait a few minutes for a rideshare through an app.


You just contradicted yourself there though. Said first riders just want a ride and don't care but then that they will wait for cheaper. I don't think the second part is the issue. At the SAME price they will wait IF they prefer uber which most do. I take people who wait for me even at a surge when there is a taxi there.

The rate cuts will eventually hurt the quality and then you do get the riders who ONLY care about price. But they won't pay surge anyway. At that point we're just cheaper on demand cabs and even more good drivers will leave. At that point it's a vicious cycle with worse pax and worse drivers.


----------



## J. D.

Fuzzyelvis said:


> At that point it's a vicious cycle with worse pax and worse drivers.


Vicious, vicious cycle.


----------



## Lack9133

J. D. said:


> Many of my riders stated that they would pay more, as much as a taxi, to get an Uber driver. But saying and doing are not the same. Not sure the incentive would be completely eliminated.


As a taxi driver, many of my riders will full on cancel a trip if I pull up before their Uber shows up even if it is a huge difference in fare. I find that many individuals, especially business travelers care more about time than price, especially considering the fact that their travel is expensed.


----------



## Lack9133

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You just contradicted yourself there though. Said first riders just want a ride and don't care but then that they will wait for cheaper. I don't think the second part is the issue. At the SAME price they will wait IF they prefer uber which most do. I take people who wait for me even at a surge when there is a taxi there.
> 
> The rate cuts will eventually hurt the quality and then you do get the riders who ONLY care about price. But they won't pay surge anyway. At that point we're just cheaper on demand cabs and even more good drivers will leave. At that point it's a vicious cycle with worse pax and worse drivers.


You might want to re-read that. I said people want a ride now. If a taxi is available right in front of them, they will take a taxi over waiting for Uber at a lower cost. When I was driving a taxi, I would have people all the time order an Uber, see me drive up, stick their hand up and jump in my vehicle even if no surging was in place. Yes, you're going to have a few who are going to wait for Uber over a taxi and you'll have those who wait for a taxi over an Uber. But in the end, if you have two options who provide the same service at the same price, 90% of the time people are going to take the service which is readily available.


----------



## J. D.

Lack9133 said:


> As a taxi driver, many of my riders will full on cancel a trip if I pull up before their Uber shows up even if it is a huge difference in fare. I find that many individuals, especially business travelers care more about time than price, especially considering the fact that their travel is expensed.


I could definitely see that happening. It's not always about the money. Besides, these dirt cheap fares have dredged up some scumbag riders, too.


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## BeepBeepBarina

Uber are doing millions of rides. Proof is in the pudding. Suck it up.


----------



## cybertec69

BeepBeepBarina said:


> Uber are doing millions of rides. Proof is in the pudding. Suck it up.


So how much is Uber paying you to advertise for them. It's ok, you can put away the pom poms, we know where you stand.


----------



## J. D.

cybertec69 said:


> So how much is Uber paying you to advertise for them. It's ok, you can put away the pom poms, we know where you stand.


Ha! I wasn't going to respond to him. I looked at his previous comments. He's just a jerk playing games.


----------



## UberRidiculous

chi1cabby said:


> Really?
> You called that Survey an *Academic Study.*
> A Survey that was sent to preselected (non random) group of Drivers.
> Only ~600 Drivers participated in the survey.
> Drivers were paid by Uber for participating.
> Uber refused to release the survey questionnaire to reporters.
> The survey release was the eve of it's presentation by David Plouffe to U.S. Council of Mayors.
> 
> But I guess you'd rather still believe that the negative Uber sentiment prevalent on the forum is less credible than a PR job by Uber.


DAAAAAAMN THAT WAS GOOD.


----------



## UberRidiculous

J. D. said:


> Like I said, I don't know you and you certainly don't know me.
> 
> Just so you are aware, my education is BBA, my background is accounting, taxes, and business management with my largest account at over $3-billion. I'm well aware of how to file a tax return. I hated the work. I quit a couple of years ago, sold my airplane, and I have now moved into my passion. I now own a brand-new TV news station. With almost all of my assets tied up in the station start-up, and believing in Uber's hype, I erroneously thought I could bring in some personal cash for a few weeks by working the weekends Ubering while my station was building revenues. Their hype made it sound wonderful. I also thought it was a good way to meet people around town. Uber was a joke as a driver. I am a seasoned businessman with the ability to see through the predatory practices and deception perpertrated by Uber to enrich themselves, even if it was after-the-fact. I am now preparing a news story at my station to be aired very soon about the Uber lies and how they prey upon the weak minded and inexperienced. I'll be more than happy to send a news crew to visit you so you can tell us why you are the exception. I'll post the info here soon when the segment is ready. If some of the current lawsuits prevail, I plan to follow up with one of my own, not for my enrichment, but because I deplore the acts of a multi-billion dollar company preying on the unsuspecting public.
> 
> Go ahead, call me stupid one more time.
> 
> Your turn.


I WANT TO SEE IT!!!!#!#


----------

