# Why are rideshare drivers not organizing?



## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

I know there have been other posts on this topic but I thought I'd bring it up again. It seems as though the settlement didn't go far enough to improve the lives of drivers as a whole. Sure, there were some minor concessions but all in all it seems very little has changed. On the other hand Uber won a major concession by not having to classify drivers as W2 employees. 

Uber still has too much control over how much we earn and they can still remove drivers off the platform anytime they wish. Why are we not organizing a union or at least electing reps from each major city to work as representatives? If we organized we could put together a nationwide strike and submit a list of fair demands to Uber to increase pay and living standards for the drivers. A few good nationwide boycotts on busy days and Uber would be forced to the table to renegotiate what they charge and pay their drivers.


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## Ryan Price (May 24, 2016)

In SF and CA as a whole, drivers are organizing with the Teamsters. Reach out to them.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

Labor organizing is an extraordinarily thankless, time-consuming task. It took decade after decade in the 20th century to get anywhere and saw the destruction of countless lives via lawsuits, "strike breakers," murders, riots, incarceration, etc.

It's hard enough to organize a labor force when some of the people are your friends and everyone works more or less in the same field or building or wherever. Trying to organize a zillion strangers who don't know or care about each other would be next to impossible.

Don't believe me? Give it a shot.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

By the time they finally organize the self driving cars will be making their appearance.


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## Ringo (Jul 2, 2016)

I think a lot of drivers are ignorant to the fact they can organize, and are fearful for their jobs, and just hope the company doesn't take away from them anymore. Quite a few come from countries with no labor laws and employers can abuse and discriminate and uber almost seems like a blessing.


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## OlDirtySapper (Jul 26, 2016)

We should really do something. They will just keep abusing us more and more until they get the robocars out. They have no interest in drivers its why they want part timers that wont fuss much about the low pay. This company makes a million a day in just "safe rider fees" yet they still need to tax us 25% while encouraging riders to not tip. I am sure if we tried to organize tho we would just be deactivated and tied up in court until after they get their robots. Really the best option is just to make your own business cards and steal the business from them straight up. The entire transpo industry as we know it only has 20 years left tops, make hay while the sun is out.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

OlDirtySapper said:


> Really the best option is just to make your own business cards and steal the business from them straight up.


Then you would be driving Uber pax around for $.95 a mile with no insurance. Is that $.22 a mile really worth it?


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Then you would be driving Uber pax around for $.95 a mile with no insurance. Is that $.22 a mile really worth it?


Good point, the Uber Experience and the legions of ride share drivers out there in 2016 have really driven the price down. I heard complaining from taxi drivers, but jitneys- the unlicensed variety have probably suffered too and been forced to lower their rates


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## SurgeWarrior (Jun 18, 2016)

Heard the drivers in PA have contacted the Teamsters...essentially waiting for California to pave the way. Seems like a great idea, let Cali get the ball rolling and it will spread like wildfire.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Unions. Worst idea ever. Grew up in a union family. Worked union jobs through college. Corrupt top to bottom.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Lol unions. 

Give me ten percent of your gross fare and I'll get you a nickel more per mile.


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## Uberx zoom (Aug 16, 2016)

Here is a good start:

http://ridesharedriversunited.com


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## OlDirtySapper (Jul 26, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Then you would be driving Uber pax around for $.95 a mile with no insurance. Is that $.22 a mile really worth it?


You would only have no insurance if you are a complete idiot. You know what never mind the less the rest of you know the more business i get. EDIT: btw I charge 2 bucks a mile and the people I steal from uber happily pay it for the ability to have time calls and not have to ever worry about a surge.


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## ErkanAk (Jul 1, 2016)

Ryan Price said:


> In SF and CA as a whole, drivers are organizing with the Teamsters. Reach out to them.


How can I reach them? Please advise me.


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## ErkanAk (Jul 1, 2016)

Uberx zoom said:


> Here is a good start:
> 
> http://ridesharedriversunited.com


I checked the website, there is no information who they are, how people will trust?


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## Uberx zoom (Aug 16, 2016)

ErkanAk said:


> I checked the website, there is no information who they are, how people will trust?


The website is run by active drivers. They prefer to remain anonymous for obvious reasons.


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## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

You spend so much time "organizing" you forget you got to drive to earn.


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## ErkanAk (Jul 1, 2016)

Tony73 said:


> You spend so much time "organizing" you forget you got to drive to earn.


That is the good point, but organizing is also worth.


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## Honey Badger (Oct 1, 2016)

I was a teamster for 21 years, they take your money and sell you out.


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## truecrimson (Oct 22, 2016)

I like the independent contracter thing. Most of my healthcare career has been as a contractor. 

The biggest problem with unions is that shops are all or none. If you could be union and me not I wouldn't care. But when union members figure out how badly they are being screwed you won't have union members anymore. So they need a government enforced monopoly. 

Every union hospital I ever worked at had low pay and terrible working conditions. No one wanted to work there so they brought in travelers for 3 times what the staff was making plus hotels and expenses.


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## ahsokas_revenge (Oct 21, 2016)

Everyone seems to have a story about how terrible it was working in a closed shop. Some of those stories may well be true, but that doesn't prove that unions are an altogether bad thing. There are different unions, some better or worse than others, and recent history shows rank-and-file members can take control of their union to run it as they see fit, with real results (see: Chicago Teachers Union).

In any case, even having bad union representation is better on the whole than not having a union at all. Numbers don't lie, and according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, median earnings for union members are $200 more per week than non-union workers. Drivers who complain about low fares but resist organizing are just shooting themselves in the foot, while making it harder for the rest of us to improve our working conditions.


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## Uberx zoom (Aug 16, 2016)

ahsokas_revenge said:


> Everyone seems to have a story about how terrible it was working in a closed shop. Some of those stories may well be true, but that doesn't prove that unions are an altogether bad thing. There are different unions, some better or worse than others, and recent history shows rank-and-file members can take control of their union to run it as they see fit, with real results (see: Chicago Teachers Union).
> 
> In any case, even having bad union representation is better on the whole than not having a union at all. Numbers don't lie, and according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, median earnings for union members are $200 more per week than non-union workers. Drivers who complain about low fares but resist organizing are just shooting themselves in the foot, while making it harder for the rest of us to improve our working conditions.


Spot On!!


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## truecrimson (Oct 22, 2016)

The very concept of a union is evil. It posits an adversarial relationship between "labor" and "capital" straight from Marx. This sets up a conflict that doesn't exist and allows government and their crony, the unions to get another point of leverage over people which they can use to extract more money to use to buy votes and reward cronies. In fact there is no adversarial relationship between labor and capital. There is a mutually beneficial relationship. If you don't like Uber's terms don't drive for them. There are other options, including creating your own Ridesharing company.

For the record, I don't complain about low fares. And I don't want to be forced into any medieval guild where I yet again get raped for little or no benefit and am forced to participate at gun point whether I want to participate or not. If Uber has issues the last thing it needs is another set of self righteous idiots interposing themselves between me and it and taking another cut.

Also understand that nothing is free. Unions dues and higher wages have to come from somewhere. That is ultimately going to be the consumer. If you make the prices too high they will go elsewhere.

Uber and it's competitors are a great example of the free market, where capital will try to provide goods and services to consumers at a price they are willing to pay and both consumers and labor will go where the best value is.

Please don't screw it up.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Uberx zoom said:


> The website is run by active drivers. They prefer to remain anonymous for obvious reasons.


They have an app, but it's for android only?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

truecrimson said:


> The very concept of a union is evil. It posits an adversarial relationship between "labor" and "capital" straight from Marx. This sets up a conflict that doesn't exist and allows government and their crony, the unions to get another point of leverage over people which they can use to extract more money to use to buy votes and reward cronies. In fact there is no adversarial relationship between labor and capital. There is a mutually beneficial relationship. If you don't like Uber's terms don't drive for them. There are other options, including creating your own Ridesharing company.
> 
> For the record, I don't complain about low fares. And I don't want to be forced into any medieval guild where I yet again get raped for little or no benefit and am forced to participate at gun point whether I want to participate or not. If Uber has issues the last thing it needs is another set of self righteous idiots interposing themselves between me and it and taking another cut.
> 
> ...


Of course there is an adversarial relationship unless you are lucky enough to have a business owner who actually is willing to share the profits with his workers. Gee, that's not the American capitalist way, though, is it?

What rock have you been living under?


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

ahsokas_revenge said:


> Everyone seems to have a story about how terrible it was working in a closed shop. Some of those stories may well be true, but that doesn't prove that unions are an altogether bad thing. There are different unions, some better or worse than others, and recent history shows rank-and-file members can take control of their union to run it as they see fit, with real results (see: Chicago Teachers Union).


Lol the CTU.

Those hags must have it all figured out considering CPS' horrific graduation rates and the incompetent bunch still has the nerve to demand more money?

In the private sector you don't get rewarded for failure, you lose your job.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

SurgeWarrior said:


> Heard the drivers in PA have contacted the Teamsters...essentially waiting for California to pave the way. Seems like a great idea, let Cali get the ball rolling and it will spread like wildfire.


. . . and Seattle . . .


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## Jollyrodger (May 12, 2016)

Lethargy.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

truecrimson said:


> I like the independent contracter thing. Most of my healthcare career has been as a contractor.
> 
> The biggest problem with unions is that shops are all or none. If you could be union and me not I wouldn't care. But when union members figure out how badly they are being screwed you won't have union members anymore. So they need a government enforced monopoly.
> 
> Every union hospital I ever worked at had low pay and terrible working conditions. No one wanted to work there so they brought in travelers for 3 times what the staff was making plus hotels and expenses.


. . . so all these posts in this thread supports the idea that employee-owned businesses are the way to go!


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Owners do share their profits with employees, it's called their ****ing pay....


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

"Why are rideshare drivers not organizing?" I can only speak for myself. I'm not "organizing" because I'm not disorganized. I don't work for Uber. I use software that they developed and I essentially pay them for the usage. If I don't want to use their software, I am free to stop at any time. If someone comes along with a program that I lke better, I'll use that one instead.

If you choose to use a particular ride share software and you feel taken advantage of... then stop.

If I create something and charge people to have it or to use it, and then they demand that I charge them less than what I am asking, I'd tell them to go pound sand. If they keep using it anyway while complaining about it, I'd laugh in their faces. If they sued me over it, I'd use every resourse I have to break them.

Quit whining. You sound like a donkey.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

ColdRider said:


> Owners do share their profits with employees, it's called their &%[email protected]!*ing pay....


 

HAHAHA!! The main difference is; the employee-owned business has the chance to run more efficiently because the people who are actually doing the work can set policy (directly/semi-directly) and customer service/product quality can be at least maintained, if not boosted. Also we wouldn't have to put up with the owners' Monarchical attitude and power to fire people on the slightest of whims!

Do business owner's have those rights? Yer G.D. right they do!! So, employee-owned is the way to go!


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## SonDriven (Nov 6, 2016)

We need to make the reality of UBER public. We need to utilize social media. Take screen shots of weekly pay Statements, and expenses and post them.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

SonDriven said:


> We need to make the reality of UBER public. We need to utilize social media. Take screen shots of weekly pay Statements, and expenses and post them.


. . . actually, we need to alert the public what a huge driving distraction and safety concern Pool rides are, and how it screws everybody and wastes their time1


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

ColdRider said:


> Owners do share their profits with employees, it's called their &%[email protected]!*ing pay....


Employees get paid regardless of whether or not the employer has a profit or not, and the amount of pay is not tied to the amount of profits (if any).

In the case of Uber, the company hasn't reported any profits, yet people are still getting paid.

There isn't a connection here.


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## Sickofhumams (Sep 11, 2016)

We need a safer place to have these conversations. There are great apps for messaging forums like Slack. Lets get one started and get some stuff done. There are enough fed up screwed over drivers.


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## truecrimson (Oct 22, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Of course there is an adversarial relationship unless you are lucky enough to have a business owner who actually is willing to share the profits with his workers. Gee, that's not the American capitalist way, though, is it?
> 
> What rock have you been living under?


Bullshit. Capital advances a loan to labor for it's services. That's why (in traditional business) you get paid at the end of the week, or every 2 weeks, instead of waiting for the clients to actually pay. A traditional company invoice's it's clients once a month or once a quarter. They advance you your wages so you don't have to wait for that. Profits are the interest on the advance capital gives to labor. Profits are not exploitative.

America is not a capitalist nation. It's mercantilist. Government forces businesses to get in bed with it under threat of regulatory violence and then doles out monopolies and regulatory benefits to those who play along most and fastest.

The best example of this was the Microsoft issue. Prior to the (in)justice compartment going after them Microsoft had no lobbyists. None. Zero. Once government started going after them they figured out they had to join the system or be forced out of business and by the time congressional hearing started they had more lobbyists than any other company in the world. Then all of a sudden the whole thing dropped out of the news and nothing happened.

The way to solve this is not to blame business, but to blame government and get them out of the picture so, as someone else mentioned, we can all start our own ********* business without having to go through Uber, or with being able to dictate our own terms. If our terms do not meet the consumers needs at the best price point then we will have to adjust or go out of business. But the solution is definitely not for a bunch of idiots to vote on what on I should get and what I should have to do. We have way too much of that already.

As a mostly forgotten anti war preacher in revolution era New York observed I see no point in trading one tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants one mile away.

If I have been living under a rock at least I have read some stuff not dolled out the ignorant masses by the pubic ejukashun system.



Sickofhumams said:


> We need a safer place to have these conversations. There are great apps for messaging forums like Slack. Lets get one started and get some stuff done. There are enough fed up screwed over drivers.


What are you afraid of?


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

truecrimson said:


> Capital advances a loan to labor for it's services. That's why (in traditional business) you get paid at the end of the week, or every 2 weeks, instead of waiting for the clients to actually pay. A traditional company invoice's it's clients once a month or once a quarter. They advance you your wages so you don't have to wait for that. Profits are the interest on the advance capital gives to labor.


By definition a loan is an amount that has to be repaid. If I perform labor for you, and you pay me before you have collected from a client, you have not made a loan to me because I have already performed the labor and I have nothing to repay you. If anything my work was a loan which you repaid on payday. No wages have been "advanced." Profits are anything you can get a cleint to pay that is above your operating expenses, and have nothing to do with any nonexistent "advance" that has been made to the worker.


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## ErkanAk (Jul 1, 2016)

Sickofhumams said:


> We need a safer place to have these conversations. There are great apps for messaging forums like Slack. Lets get one started and get some stuff done. There are enough fed up screwed over drivers.


Check your pm. Regards


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## ErkanAk (Jul 1, 2016)

Sickofhumams said:


> We need a safer place to have these conversations. There are great apps for messaging forums like Slack. Lets get one started and get some stuff done. There are enough fed up screwed over drivers.





Driving and Driven said:


> They have an app, but it's for android only?


App is Not working. Seems they are located in Australia.


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## Uberx zoom (Aug 16, 2016)

ErkanAk said:


> App is Not working. Seems they are located in Australia.


The app IS working.

This app is simply designed to alert drivers to collective actions in thier (profile) set areas. The numbers (of drivers) are just not there yet. Use the (app) forums to suggest a collective action in your area. It can then be coordinated from there and if there are other drivers in your area who run the app or registerd with the **** website they will all receive a message pop on thier phone (or via email if they dont have the app installed) about the collective action about to take place in thier area with instructions and more information.

More info here:
http://ridesharedriversunited.com


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## ErkanAk (Jul 1, 2016)

Uberx zoom said:


> The app IS working.
> 
> This app is simply designed to alert drivers to collective actions in thier (profile) set areas. The numbers (of drivers) are just not there yet. Use the (app) forums to suggest a collective action in your area. It can then be coordinated from there and if there are other drivers in your area who run the app or registerd with the **** website they will all receive a message pop on thier phone (or via email if they dont have the app installed) about the collective action about to take place in thier area with instructions and more information.
> 
> ...


Check please your pm.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Personally I don't want to be a W2 employee. I prefer being a contractor and all the advantages associated with that. I'd rather Uber respect our contractor nature more and be more hands-off than to be more hands-on and make us into employees.

If you guys who want to be W2 employees get your way you'll probably also need to work assigned shifts. In otherwords, you'll be taxi drivers for a different cab company. I don't want assigned shifts.


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

If you do not stand up for yourself, nobody will. Keep on being a slave.


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Who first fined a contractor that charge $18.00 per/hour Drink will be my treat.


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Flarpy said:


> Labor organizing is an extraordinarily thankless, time-consuming task. It took decade after decade in the 20th century to get anywhere and saw the destruction of countless lives via lawsuits, "strike breakers," murders, riots, incarceration, etc.
> 
> It's hard enough to organize a labor force when some of the people are your friends and everyone works more or less in the same field or building or wherever. Trying to organize a zillion strangers who don't know or care about each other would be next to impossible.
> 
> Don't believe me? Give it a shot.


This way of thinking, desperation, evapreted our middle clas.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

SonDriven said:


> We need to make the reality of UBER public. We need to utilize social media. Take screen shots of weekly pay Statements, and expenses and post them.


And people will be like "Then why do you do it? Stop driving for them if you don't like it!"

What do you think promoting it on social media will do? People want their cheap rides.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Driving and Driven said:


> People want their cheap rides.


Cheap rides was the great innovation that made Uber popular in the first place.

Otherwise, people would still be taking taxis.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Too many part time drivers by Ubers design. Part time drivers have much less skin in the game, and won't pay union dues for support of a union leadership council. I don't like union bosses but, would consider support of an elected "union council" made up of "veteran" "honest" ride share drivers ONLY. They would have to have their own financial house in order and would have a cap on their compensation.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Elmo Burrito said:


> Too many part time drivers by Ubers design. Part time drivers have much less skin in the game, and won't pay union dues for support of a union leadership council. I don't like union bosses but, would consider support of an elected "union council" made up of "veteran" "honest" ride share drivers ONLY. They would have to have their own financial house in order and would have a cap on their compensation.


A guild. Members would pay dues based on their average monthly time on the app, on a rolling six-month basis. It's just "cloud talk" right now, though.


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## MissLucy (Feb 21, 2017)

Because they're lazy blockheads!!


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Elmo Burrito said:


> Too many part time drivers by Ubers design. Part time drivers have much less skin in the game, and won't pay union dues for support of a union leadership council.


Wouldn't make a difference in a non-Right to Work state- where I think most of the Ride Share partners are located.

Non-union members would still have agency fees subtracted automatically from their remittances, regardless of whether or not they are in favor of, opposed, or indifferent to the union.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

MissLucy said:


> Because they're lazy blockheads!!


RATS!


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

circle1 said:


> RATS!


DUCKS!


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

circle1 said:


> A guild. Members would pay dues based on their average monthly time on the app, on a rolling six-month basis. .


I don't think the union would go for that. They'd prefer, I'm sure, to get a set percentage of each partner's gross fares instead. Of course a lot of partners don't last 6 months, waiting or a rolling period like that, I don't see it happening.

I would not be surprised if Uber were to sign a contract with one of the unions at all. A union would be another set of eyes, Uber probably has some concern about partners running trips "off app". The union would concerned about that too as their funding comes for the same source.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

ChortlingCrison said:


> DUCKS!


Quacks!



I_Like_Spam said:


> I don't think the union would go for that. They'd prefer, I'm sure, to get a set percentage of each partner's gross fares instead. Of course a lot of partners don't last 6 months, waiting or a rolling period like that, I don't see it happening.


I was thinking outside the union "box."

Cloudtalk though it is, if ever a small group of drivers were to join forces and start something like this, I think it would catch on and spread. The odds of the right people coming together and making it happen? Meh, pretty low!


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1243316062370288


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

ChortlingCrison said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1243316062370288


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

Elmo Burrito said:


> Too many part time drivers by Ubers design. Part time drivers have much less skin in the game, and won't pay union dues for support of a union leadership council. I don't like union bosses but, would consider support of an elected "union council" made up of "veteran" "honest" ride share drivers ONLY. They would have to have their own financial house in order and would have a cap on their compensation.


So what "skin in the game" do full time drivers have vs. part timers ? Did you invest in a million dollar dispatch system? Nope. Did you invest in an ad campaign? Nope. Did you have to "brand" your car? Nope. Did you invest in full time commercial insurance? Nope.

You know as well as I, Uber drivers have ZERO skin in the game. If you did, you'd have NEVER agreed to drive for such stupidly low rates.


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## Ringo (Jul 2, 2016)

NorCalPhil said:


> Unions. Worst idea ever. Grew up in a union family. Worked union jobs through college. Corrupt top to bottom.


Really? I'll be enjoying my 4k a month pension, medical insurance, annuity, from my corrupt union in a few more years.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Ringo said:


> Really? I'll be enjoying my 4k a month pension, medical insurance, annuity, from my corrupt union in a few more years.


Enjoy it. The reps from that union are enjoying the 10k+ a month pension you guys funded for them. Ask me how I know.


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