# For self-driving cars, car washes are a nightmare



## jocker12

The most cutting-edge cars on the planet require an old-fashioned handwashing.

Car washes have been automated for decades, but companies developing fully autonomous vehicles must rely on a human touch to keep their cars and trucks in working condition.

There are a range of problems with putting a self-driving vehicle through a traditional car wash, experts say.

For example, *soap residue or water spots could effectively "blind" an autonomous car*. A traditional car wash's *heavy brushes could jar the vehicle's sensors*, *disrupting their calibration and accuracy*. Even worse, sensors, which can cost over $100,000, could be broken.

A self-driving vehicle's *exterior needs to be cleaned even more frequently *than a typical car because the sensors must remain free of obstructions. Dirt, dead bugs, bird droppings or water spots can impact the vehicle's ability to drive safely.

Avis, which has years of experience managing large fleets of rental cars, has been tasked with cleaning and refueling the self-driving van fleet of Waymo, the self-driving arm of Google's parent company. Avis modified three of its branches in the Phoenix area to tend to the Chrysler Pacifica vans.

"There are special processes that definitely require* a lot more care and focus*, and you have to clean [the vans] quite often," Avis chief innovation officer Arthur Orduña told CNN. "We give them the premium level of service that I don't think any vehicle globally is getting."

Orduña wouldn't reveal exactly how they're washing the vehicles. But other self-driving car companies such as Toyota, Aptiv, Drive.AI and Uber described to CNN that they use microfiber cloths along with rubbing alcohol, water or glass cleaner for manual cleanings.

For snowy and icy conditions, Uber has a worker apply windshield washer fluid with a squirt bottle to its camera lenses. A puff of air is then used to remove whatever residue remains.

Toyota primarily uses rubbing alcohol on a cloth to clean camera lenses, but sometimes turns to cleaning wipes. But May Mobility, a self-driving startup based in Ann Arbor, Mich., relies on a cloth and water for the entire vehicle.

Meanwhile, some companies, such as Cruise, the self-driving group of General Motors (GM), are building sensor cleaning equipment into their vehicles. This should alleviate some need for manual cleaning.

Startup Seeva is developing similar technology to clean autonomous vehicles' sensors. Seeva already offers a system that heats washer fluid to as hot as 160 degrees, and sprays it on surfaces to clean bugs, dirt or ice.

But because autonomous vehicles can have dozens of sensors, Seeva CEO Diane Lansinger doesn't imagine products like this will be able to clean every camera, radar or LIDAR, a laser sensor that most experts see as essential for self-driving vehicles.

"For self-driving technology to scale, we can't have engineers paid $150,000 a year, running around the vehicles and wiping them down," Lansinger said. *"It's going to be quite awhile before we get away from the manual care.*"

http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/22/technology/self-driving-car-wash/index.html


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## tomatopaste

jocker12 said:


> The most cutting-edge cars on the planet require an old-fashioned handwashing.
> 
> Car washes have been automated for decades, but companies developing fully autonomous vehicles must rely on a human touch to keep their cars and trucks in working condition.
> 
> There are a range of problems with putting a self-driving vehicle through a traditional car wash, experts say.
> 
> For example, *soap residue or water spots could effectively "blind" an autonomous car*. A traditional car wash's *heavy brushes could jar the vehicle's sensors*, *disrupting their calibration and accuracy*. Even worse, sensors, which can cost over $100,000, could be broken.
> 
> A self-driving vehicle's *exterior needs to be cleaned even more frequently *than a typical car because the sensors must remain free of obstructions. Dirt, dead bugs, bird droppings or water spots can impact the vehicle's ability to drive safely.
> 
> Avis, which has years of experience managing large fleets of rental cars, has been tasked with cleaning and refueling the self-driving van fleet of Waymo, the self-driving arm of Google's parent company. Avis modified three of its branches in the Phoenix area to tend to the Chrysler Pacifica vans.
> 
> "There are special processes that definitely require* a lot more care and focus*, and you have to clean [the vans] quite often," Avis chief innovation officer Arthur Orduña told CNN. "We give them the premium level of service that I don't think any vehicle globally is getting."
> 
> Orduña wouldn't reveal exactly how they're washing the vehicles. But other self-driving car companies such as Toyota, Aptiv, Drive.AI and Uber described to CNN that they use microfiber cloths along with rubbing alcohol, water or glass cleaner for manual cleanings.
> 
> For snowy and icy conditions, Uber has a worker apply windshield washer fluid with a squirt bottle to its camera lenses. A puff of air is then used to remove whatever residue remains.
> 
> Toyota primarily uses rubbing alcohol on a cloth to clean camera lenses, but sometimes turns to cleaning wipes. But May Mobility, a self-driving startup based in Ann Arbor, Mich., relies on a cloth and water for the entire vehicle.
> 
> Meanwhile, some companies, such as Cruise, the self-driving group of General Motors (GM), are building sensor cleaning equipment into their vehicles. This should alleviate some need for manual cleaning.
> 
> Startup Seeva is developing similar technology to clean autonomous vehicles' sensors. Seeva already offers a system that heats washer fluid to as hot as 160 degrees, and sprays it on surfaces to clean bugs, dirt or ice.
> 
> But because autonomous vehicles can have dozens of sensors, Seeva CEO Diane Lansinger doesn't imagine products like this will be able to clean every camera, radar or LIDAR, a laser sensor that most experts see as essential for self-driving vehicles.
> 
> "For self-driving technology to scale, we can't have engineers paid $150,000 a year, running around the vehicles and wiping them down," Lansinger said. *"It's going to be quite awhile before we get away from the manual care.*"
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/22/technology/self-driving-car-wash/index.html


Jockey, you have a knack for finding the dumbest articles on the internet.


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## Elmo Burrito

Self driving cars will be disposable like a Bic cigarette lighter. They won't need to clean them. Kinda like a BART car or a NYC subway car only better cause they just salvage them after a year or two of service.


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## tomatopaste

jocker12 said:


> The most cutting-edge cars on the planet require an old-fashioned handwashing.
> 
> Car washes have been automated for decades, but companies developing fully autonomous vehicles must rely on a human touch to keep their cars and trucks in working condition.
> 
> There are a range of problems with putting a self-driving vehicle through a traditional car wash, experts say.
> 
> For example, *soap residue or water spots could effectively "blind" an autonomous car*. A traditional car wash's *heavy brushes could jar the vehicle's sensors*, *disrupting their calibration and accuracy*. Even worse, sensors, which can cost over $100,000, could be broken.
> 
> A self-driving vehicle's *exterior needs to be cleaned even more frequently *than a typical car because the sensors must remain free of obstructions. Dirt, dead bugs, bird droppings or water spots can impact the vehicle's ability to drive safely.
> 
> Avis, which has years of experience managing large fleets of rental cars, has been tasked with cleaning and refueling the self-driving van fleet of Waymo, the self-driving arm of Google's parent company. Avis modified three of its branches in the Phoenix area to tend to the Chrysler Pacifica vans.
> 
> "There are special processes that definitely require* a lot more care and focus*, and you have to clean [the vans] quite often," Avis chief innovation officer Arthur Orduña told CNN. "We give them the premium level of service that I don't think any vehicle globally is getting."
> 
> Orduña wouldn't reveal exactly how they're washing the vehicles. But other self-driving car companies such as Toyota, Aptiv, Drive.AI and Uber described to CNN that they use microfiber cloths along with rubbing alcohol, water or glass cleaner for manual cleanings.
> 
> For snowy and icy conditions, Uber has a worker apply windshield washer fluid with a squirt bottle to its camera lenses. A puff of air is then used to remove whatever residue remains.
> 
> Toyota primarily uses rubbing alcohol on a cloth to clean camera lenses, but sometimes turns to cleaning wipes. But May Mobility, a self-driving startup based in Ann Arbor, Mich., relies on a cloth and water for the entire vehicle.
> 
> Meanwhile, some companies, such as Cruise, the self-driving group of General Motors (GM), are building sensor cleaning equipment into their vehicles. This should alleviate some need for manual cleaning.
> 
> Startup Seeva is developing similar technology to clean autonomous vehicles' sensors. Seeva already offers a system that heats washer fluid to as hot as 160 degrees, and sprays it on surfaces to clean bugs, dirt or ice.
> 
> But because autonomous vehicles can have dozens of sensors, Seeva CEO Diane Lansinger doesn't imagine products like this will be able to clean every camera, radar or LIDAR, a laser sensor that most experts see as essential for self-driving vehicles.
> 
> "For self-driving technology to scale, we can't have engineers paid $150,000 a year, running around the vehicles and wiping them down," Lansinger said. *"It's going to be quite awhile before we get away from the manual care.*"
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/22/technology/self-driving-car-wash/index.html


Self driving cars won't work cause "car washes"
what a bunch of tards


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## RamzFanz

Is this what the naysayers have devolved to? Car washes?!

I honestly feel bad for you.



jocker12 said:


> Even worse, sensors, which can cost over $100,000, could be broken.


I stopped reading here. There are no $100,000 sensors on currently operating SDCs. If you can't get that right, it's unworthy of consideration.


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## tomatopaste

RamzFanz said:


> Is this what the naysayers have devolved to? Car washes?!
> 
> I honestly feel bad for you.
> 
> I stopped reading here. There are no $100,000 sensors on currently operating SDCs. If you can't get that right, it's unworthy of consideration.


What passes for journalism these days is truly embarrassing.


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## Oscar Levant

jocker12 said:


> The most cutting-edge cars on the planet require an old-fashioned handwashing.
> 
> Car washes have been automated for decades, but companies developing fully autonomous vehicles must rely on a human touch to keep their cars and trucks in working condition.
> 
> There are a range of problems with putting a self-driving vehicle through a traditional car wash, experts say.
> 
> For example, *soap residue or water spots could effectively "blind" an autonomous car*. A traditional car wash's *heavy brushes could jar the vehicle's sensors*, *disrupting their calibration and accuracy*. Even worse, sensors, which can cost over $100,000, could be broken.
> 
> A self-driving vehicle's *exterior needs to be cleaned even more frequently *than a typical car because the sensors must remain free of obstructions. Dirt, dead bugs, bird droppings or water spots can impact the vehicle's ability to drive safely.
> 
> Avis, which has years of experience managing large fleets of rental cars, has been tasked with cleaning and refueling the self-driving van fleet of Waymo, the self-driving arm of Google's parent company. Avis modified three of its branches in the Phoenix area to tend to the Chrysler Pacifica vans.
> 
> "There are special processes that definitely require* a lot more care and focus*, and you have to clean [the vans] quite often," Avis chief innovation officer Arthur Orduña told CNN. "We give them the premium level of service that I don't think any vehicle globally is getting."
> 
> Orduña wouldn't reveal exactly how they're washing the vehicles. But other self-driving car companies such as Toyota, Aptiv, Drive.AI and Uber described to CNN that they use microfiber cloths along with rubbing alcohol, water or glass cleaner for manual cleanings.
> 
> For snowy and icy conditions, Uber has a worker apply windshield washer fluid with a squirt bottle to its camera lenses. A puff of air is then used to remove whatever residue remains.
> 
> Toyota primarily uses rubbing alcohol on a cloth to clean camera lenses, but sometimes turns to cleaning wipes. But May Mobility, a self-driving startup based in Ann Arbor, Mich., relies on a cloth and water for the entire vehicle.
> 
> Meanwhile, some companies, such as Cruise, the self-driving group of General Motors (GM), are building sensor cleaning equipment into their vehicles. This should alleviate some need for manual cleaning.
> 
> Startup Seeva is developing similar technology to clean autonomous vehicles' sensors. Seeva already offers a system that heats washer fluid to as hot as 160 degrees, and sprays it on surfaces to clean bugs, dirt or ice.
> 
> But because autonomous vehicles can have dozens of sensors, Seeva CEO Diane Lansinger doesn't imagine products like this will be able to clean every camera, radar or LIDAR, a laser sensor that most experts see as essential for self-driving vehicles.
> 
> "For self-driving technology to scale, we can't have engineers paid $150,000 a year, running around the vehicles and wiping them down," Lansinger said. *"It's going to be quite awhile before we get away from the manual care.*"
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/22/technology/self-driving-car-wash/index.html


Good luck getting the rates below Uber rates of $1.10 per mile.


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## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Jockey, you have a knack for finding the dumbest articles on the internet.


One of the most important things needed in running a transportation business is keeping the car clean and you say it's "dumb"?

You know what look, SDCs are one thing, running a transportation biz is something else. Maybe it's better if the two did not merge.



RamzFanz said:


> Is this what the naysayers have devolved to? Car washes?!
> 
> I honestly feel bad for you.


RamzFanz i thought u were an Uber driver are you not? If you are then you know that car washes are nothing to be ignored. (Unless you don't mind getting all 1 stars)


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## heynow321

Ramz probably just drives through his faulty sprinkler systems for a wash


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## RamzFanz

iheartuber said:


> RamzFanz i thought u were an Uber driver are you not? If you are then you know that car washes are nothing to be ignored. (Unless you don't mind getting all 1 stars)


Thinking that car washes are what's going to impede a SDC is silly.


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## iheartuber

RamzFanz said:


> Thinking that car washes are what's going to impede a SDC is silly.


Car washes in an of themselves is not going to implode a SDC taxi fleet. But ignoring car washes and ignoring maintenance and ignoring about a hundred other things is what's going to implode an SDC taxi fleet.

And news flash: I get the impression they are going to ignore all those things.


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## Sydney Uber

jocker12 said:


> The most cutting-edge cars on the planet require an old-fashioned handwashing.
> 
> Car washes have been automated for decades, but companies developing fully autonomous vehicles must rely on a human touch to keep their cars and trucks in working condition.
> 
> There are a range of problems with putting a self-driving vehicle through a traditional car wash, experts say.
> 
> For example, *soap residue or water spots could effectively "blind" an autonomous car*. A traditional car wash's *heavy brushes could jar the vehicle's sensors*, *disrupting their calibration and accuracy*. Even worse, sensors, which can cost over $100,000, could be broken.
> 
> A self-driving vehicle's *exterior needs to be cleaned even more frequently *than a typical car because the sensors must remain free of obstructions. Dirt, dead bugs, bird droppings or water spots can impact the vehicle's ability to drive safely.
> 
> Avis, which has years of experience managing large fleets of rental cars, has been tasked with cleaning and refueling the self-driving van fleet of Waymo, the self-driving arm of Google's parent company. Avis modified three of its branches in the Phoenix area to tend to the Chrysler Pacifica vans.
> 
> "There are special processes that definitely require* a lot more care and focus*, and you have to clean [the vans] quite often," Avis chief innovation officer Arthur Orduña told CNN. "We give them the premium level of service that I don't think any vehicle globally is getting."
> 
> Orduña wouldn't reveal exactly how they're washing the vehicles. But other self-driving car companies such as Toyota, Aptiv, Drive.AI and Uber described to CNN that they use microfiber cloths along with rubbing alcohol, water or glass cleaner for manual cleanings.
> 
> For snowy and icy conditions, Uber has a worker apply windshield washer fluid with a squirt bottle to its camera lenses. A puff of air is then used to remove whatever residue remains.
> 
> Toyota primarily uses rubbing alcohol on a cloth to clean camera lenses, but sometimes turns to cleaning wipes. But May Mobility, a self-driving startup based in Ann Arbor, Mich., relies on a cloth and water for the entire vehicle.
> 
> Meanwhile, some companies, such as Cruise, the self-driving group of General Motors (GM), are building sensor cleaning equipment into their vehicles. This should alleviate some need for manual cleaning.
> 
> Startup Seeva is developing similar technology to clean autonomous vehicles' sensors. Seeva already offers a system that heats washer fluid to as hot as 160 degrees, and sprays it on surfaces to clean bugs, dirt or ice.
> 
> But because autonomous vehicles can have dozens of sensors, Seeva CEO Diane Lansinger doesn't imagine products like this will be able to clean every camera, radar or LIDAR, a laser sensor that most experts see as essential for self-driving vehicles.
> 
> "For self-driving technology to scale, we can't have engineers paid $150,000 a year, running around the vehicles and wiping them down," Lansinger said. *"It's going to be quite awhile before we get away from the manual care.*"
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/22/technology/self-driving-car-wash/index.html


This is interesting. A slight a oversight in the practical day to day running of Autonomous cars.

I see many of the displaced drivers setting up "clean 'n' go stands". Where vacant Autonomous cars pull up, identify the cleaner who gives the camera lenses a quick professional clean.

Then 0n the overpass 200 yards down the road, another displaced driver expertly shoots chocalate milk all other every robot car that comes along.



tomatopaste said:


> Self driving cars won't work cause "car washes"
> what a bunch of tards


A huge motivation of self-driving cars is to lower fleet operating costs.

You can't argue that the cameras and sensors will need more care and cleaning. Do passengers get asked to give them a quick wipe with the supplied lens cleaners for a credit to their trip? Or perhaps the trip won't commence until they do a quick wipe over.

Here in Oz driverless mine trucks using a transponder system to position them via triangulation have been operating for years. No real need for cameras.


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## RamzFanz

iheartuber said:


> Car washes in an of themselves is not going to implode a SDC taxi fleet. But ignoring car washes and ignoring maintenance and ignoring about a hundred other things is what's going to implode an SDC taxi fleet.
> 
> And news flash: I get the impression they are going to ignore all those things.


You get that impression? From where? Here? That I can believe.

As for me, I'm going to make the wildly dangerous assumption that the worldwide auto, tech, and rental car industries know a few things about maintenance, repair, and washing cars.

Waymo has partnered with both Avis and AutoNation to care for its fleet. They are also partnered with Daimler, the current manufacturer, and other major manufacturers. How is that ignoring the obvious that they need to be cared for properly?


----------



## iheartuber

RamzFanz said:


> You get that impression? From where? Here? That I can believe.
> 
> As for me, I'm going to make the wildly dangerous assumption that the worldwide auto, tech, and rental car industries know a few things about maintenance, repair, and washing cars.


Actually, here's the thing: if Waymo want to build the software and GM wants to build the cars with SD tech, that I have confidence they can do.

But to do that AND run a taxi biz too? That's where my confidence runs thin. Especially if I listen to the SDC advocates on this board.

News flash: it takes more than just money to "hire" the right people to make a business successful.


----------



## RamzFanz

iheartuber said:


> Actually, here's the thing: if Waymo want to build the software and GM wants to build the cars with SD tech, that I have confidence they can do.
> 
> But to do that AND run a taxi biz too? That's where my confidence runs thin. Especially if I listen to the SDC advocates on this board.
> 
> News flash: it takes more than just money to "hire" the right people to make a business successful.


Waymo hired Avis to manage their fleet and Auto Nation to maintain it, both experts in their fields.

I can't grasp that people actually think these necessities haven't been considered.


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## iheartuber

RamzFanz said:


> Waymo hired Avis to manage their fleet and Auto Nation to maintain it, both experts in their fields.


Avis is an expert at car rentals
Auto Nation is an expert at maintaining cars that people own.

Cars in a taxi fleet require approx 4x more attention than what either of those companies have experience with.

I used to be a guy who drove the average amount of miles a year and took my car in to be serviced as often as was required.

Now, as an Uber driver I'm spending about 4x more time and money.

So, there's that.


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## RamzFanz

iheartuber said:


> Avis is an expert at car rentals
> Auto Nation is an expert at maintaining cars that people own.
> 
> Cars in a taxi fleet require approx 4x more attention than what either of those companies have experience with.
> 
> I used to be a guy who drove the average amount of miles a year and took my car in to be serviced as often as was required.
> 
> Now, as an Uber driver I'm spending about 4x more time and money.
> 
> So, there's that.


*WHY AVIS FLEET?*

Our focus is to help you get maximum business mileage from your fleet through solutions which are shaped around your business vision and objectives, and easily adapted as your needs change.

Auto Nation is an expert at maintaining cars that people own? Yes, and Waymo will own these cars.


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## iheartuber

RamzFanz said:


> *WHY AVIS FLEET?*
> 
> Our focus is to help you get maximum business mileage from your fleet through solutions which are shaped around your business vision and objectives, and easily adapted as your needs change.
> 
> Auto Nation is an expert at maintaining cars that people own? Yes, and Waymo will own these cars.


Whatever man. If you're going by their PR press release of course they're gonna say they can do it. We'll just see what happens


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## RamzFanz

iheartuber said:


> Whatever man. If you're going by their PR press release of course they're gonna say they can do it. We'll just see what happens


I'm going by their vast experience in this field and past success.


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## iheartuber

RamzFanz said:


> I'm going by their vast experience in this field and past success.


I'll just wait to see for myself. No offense if I don't believe you.


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## heynow321

RamzFanz said:


> I'm going by their vast experience in this field and past success.


lol "success". still having a hard time with english ramz?


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## Sydney Uber

heynow321 said:


> lol "success". still having a hard time with english ramz?


Oh dear! Is that the only counter-punch you have for his opinion? A spelling mistake? Methinks RamzFanz has little to worry about from someone who starts a post like a 13yr old "lol"!


----------



## tohunt4me

jocker12 said:


> The most cutting-edge cars on the planet require an old-fashioned handwashing.
> 
> Car washes have been automated for decades, but companies developing fully autonomous vehicles must rely on a human touch to keep their cars and trucks in working condition.
> 
> There are a range of problems with putting a self-driving vehicle through a traditional car wash, experts say.
> 
> For example, *soap residue or water spots could effectively "blind" an autonomous car*. A traditional car wash's *heavy brushes could jar the vehicle's sensors*, *disrupting their calibration and accuracy*. Even worse, sensors, which can cost over $100,000, could be broken.
> 
> A self-driving vehicle's *exterior needs to be cleaned even more frequently *than a typical car because the sensors must remain free of obstructions. Dirt, dead bugs, bird droppings or water spots can impact the vehicle's ability to drive safely.
> 
> Avis, which has years of experience managing large fleets of rental cars, has been tasked with cleaning and refueling the self-driving van fleet of Waymo, the self-driving arm of Google's parent company. Avis modified three of its branches in the Phoenix area to tend to the Chrysler Pacifica vans.
> 
> "There are special processes that definitely require* a lot more care and focus*, and you have to clean [the vans] quite often," Avis chief innovation officer Arthur Orduña told CNN. "We give them the premium level of service that I don't think any vehicle globally is getting."
> 
> Orduña wouldn't reveal exactly how they're washing the vehicles. But other self-driving car companies such as Toyota, Aptiv, Drive.AI and Uber described to CNN that they use microfiber cloths along with rubbing alcohol, water or glass cleaner for manual cleanings.
> 
> For snowy and icy conditions, Uber has a worker apply windshield washer fluid with a squirt bottle to its camera lenses. A puff of air is then used to remove whatever residue remains.
> 
> Toyota primarily uses rubbing alcohol on a cloth to clean camera lenses, but sometimes turns to cleaning wipes. But May Mobility, a self-driving startup based in Ann Arbor, Mich., relies on a cloth and water for the entire vehicle.
> 
> Meanwhile, some companies, such as Cruise, the self-driving group of General Motors (GM), are building sensor cleaning equipment into their vehicles. This should alleviate some need for manual cleaning.
> 
> Startup Seeva is developing similar technology to clean autonomous vehicles' sensors. Seeva already offers a system that heats washer fluid to as hot as 160 degrees, and sprays it on surfaces to clean bugs, dirt or ice.
> 
> But because autonomous vehicles can have dozens of sensors, Seeva CEO Diane Lansinger doesn't imagine products like this will be able to clean every camera, radar or LIDAR, a laser sensor that most experts see as essential for self-driving vehicles.
> 
> "For self-driving technology to scale, we can't have engineers paid $150,000 a year, running around the vehicles and wiping them down," Lansinger said. *"It's going to be quite awhile before we get away from the manual care.*"
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/22/technology/self-driving-car-wash/index.html


A MOTH disabled a self driving car.

Imagine dying because a moth struck your car !



Oscar Levant said:


> Good luck getting the rates below Uber rates of $1.10 per mile.


Never happen !



RamzFanz said:


> You get that impression? From where? Here? That I can believe.
> 
> As for me, I'm going to make the wildly dangerous assumption that the worldwide auto, tech, and rental car industries know a few things about maintenance, repair, and washing cars.
> 
> Waymo has partnered with both Avis and AutoNation to care for its fleet. They are also partnered with Daimler, the current manufacturer, and other major manufacturers. How is that ignoring the obvious that they need to be cared for properly?


During the Last Market Crash Avis almost went Under !

Imagine the economy when all of those Uber drivers are suddenly displaced.

Might tank Avis via Ripple Effect.

Last go round tanked G.M. & CHRYSTLER.
FORD DROPPED TO $1.90 a share !
Avis, Budget , Hertz all went below $1.00.


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## heynow321

Sydney Uber said:


> Oh dear! Is that the only counter-punch you have for his opinion? A spelling mistake? Methinks RamzFanz has little to worry about from someone who starts a post like a 13yr old "lol"!


there's no point in engaging ramz as he doesn't understand the difference between subjective opinion and facts. that kind of thing could lead to marital problems.


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## RamzFanz

heynow321 said:


> there's no point in engaging ramz as he doesn't understand the difference between subjective opinion and facts. that kind of thing could lead to marital problems.


Fact: All Heynow uses in his arguments are subjective opinions. And insults. Opinions and insults.


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## heynow321

RamzFanz said:


> Fact: All Heynow uses in his arguments are subjective opinions. And insults. Opinions and insults.


fact: ramz's favorite logical fallacy is the appeal to authority. "they're investing a ton of money! they must be right!". it's like ramz lives in a world where investors have never lost money or made bad bets before. sounds like a great world.


----------



## RamzFanz

heynow321 said:


> fact: ramz's favorite logical fallacy is the appeal to authority. "they're investing a ton of money! they must be right!". it's like ramz lives in a world where investors have never lost money or made bad bets before. sounds like a great world.


While your statement is false, when was the last time you've seen this many major corporations engage in a single goal at this scale?

ɹǝʌǝN :ɹǝʍsu∀

It's not an appeal to authority (Description: Using an authority as evidence in your argument when the authority is not really an authority on the facts relevant to the argument), it's acknowledging that the world's leading experts almost all agree, which is what has spurned this drive towards a new transportation model. Of course, there is a miniscule chance you could be correct and every one of them wrong. It's possible. Chin up little guy.

So, which of these company's stocks are you currently shorting? I mean, if you're so confident, there's going to be a LOT of money made shorting them.


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## heynow321

I would start with tsla. that will be a great short coming up here in the future. currently trading at a price/book of 13.4 against the S&P's average of 3.2. 

again ramz, your extreme lack of education is showing. companies engaging in a single goal on a larger scale? lets start with the energy industry for one. multiple HUGE companies all started out digging holes in the ground for this black stuff to sell to people all across the world! some even partnered with each other! 

as i pointed out in the other thread. this "scale" you keep blindly referring to is not really that big. but again, I don't expect you to know any of this as all you do is read the hype and buy it hook line and sinker. btw, i have some ocean front property in oklahoma for sale currently. bargain basement prices! 

you really need to stick to the lawn care business my friend (assuming your back can handle it). try to get that business started back up again. let the adults deal with the big boy industries.


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## RamzFanz

heynow321 said:


> I would start with tsla. that will be a great short coming up here in the future. currently trading at a price/book of 13.4 against the S&P's average of 3.2.


Do it, show us you did it, do it BIG! Come on, I bought Citibank and BOA during the housing crash and lapped up that gravy. Do it. Believe in yourself. Be impressive for once.



heynow321 said:


> again ramz, your extreme lack of education is showing. companies engaging in a single goal on a larger scale? lets start with the energy industry for one. multiple HUGE companies all started out digging holes in the ground for this black stuff to sell to people all across the world! some even partnered with each other!


You know what Hey? Your personal attacks on me are boring, shallow, and undermine anything you have to say as anyone other than you can see they are disingenuous.

Wait...what? You are comparing hole diggers to the single biggest undertaking by corporations to a single goal in the history of humankind?

Look, energy is an impressive market, but that was NOT a worldwide singularity across multiple world leading industries in diverse technologies like this is. If you can't grasp the scale, you should look into it.



heynow321 said:


> as i pointed out in the other thread. this "scale" you keep blindly referring to is not really that big. but again, I don't expect you to know any of this as all you do is read the hype and buy it hook line and sinker. btw, i have some ocean front property in oklahoma for sale currently. bargain basement prices!


You're wilfully blind. The scale is almost beyond exaggeration. It's sad you opine without the most basic understanding of what's happening. You seem halfway intelligent but woefully uninformed.



heynow321 said:


> you really need to stick to the lawn care business my friend (assuming your back can handle it). try to get that business started back up again. let the adults deal with the big boy industries.


If I were in the lawn care business, as my best friend is, I would crush it. Disparaging a field that can make you a millionaire is not wise. It makes you look like an idiot.

Would you like to meet some lawn care millionaires?

_PRO TIP: Before you become a talker, you should become a thinker and doer. Achievement speaks for itself._


----------



## heynow321

RamzFanz said:


> Wait...what? You are comparing hole diggers to the single biggest undertaking by corporations to a single goal in the history of humankind?
> 
> _f._


LOL you keep saying this and it's patently false. stop making things up ramz. is senility setting in?


----------



## iheartuber

heynow321 said:


> LOL you keep saying this and it's patently false. stop making things up ramz. is senility setting in?


To be fair, is it the "single biggest undertaking"? Perhaps, but I wouldn't advertise that until there are a LOT more quantifiable results


----------



## RamzFanz

iheartuber said:


> To be fair, is it the "single biggest undertaking"? Perhaps, but I wouldn't advertise that until there are a LOT more quantifiable results


Where would you like to start? I mean, it's hard to substantiate but I figure the number of companies and amount of investment towards a single goal speaks for itself. When you look at a single goal by worldwide corporations and their investments, is there even a comparison?

I think not. I've tried, I've looked, there is none. Some idiot said TRAINS!



heynow321 said:


> LOL you keep saying this and it's patently false. stop making things up ramz. is senility setting in?


As always, nothing substantive.

I'm giving you a free opportunity to debate this fact. Make your points.

Fair warning, I WANT you to debate this. I HOPE you debate this. Have at it. Crush me.


----------



## iheartuber

RamzFanz said:


> Where would you like to start? I mean, it's hard to substantiate but I figure the number of companies and amount of investment towards a single goal speaks for itself. When you look at a single goal by worldwide corporations and their investments, is there even a comparison?
> 
> I think not. I've tried, I've looked, there is none. Some idiot said TRAINS!
> 
> As always, nothing substantive.
> 
> I'm giving you a free opportunity to debate this fact. Make your points.
> 
> Fair warning, I WANT you to debate this. I HOPE you debate this. Have at it. Crush me.


Buddy, I already GAVE you the benefit of the doubt on this. I have no idea if this is the "single biggest undertaking" but let's say it is. Even if it is, nothing has really happened yet, so they should be laying low.


----------



## Sydney Uber

heynow321 said:


> there's no point in engaging ramz as he doesn't understand the difference between subjective opinion and facts. that kind of thing could lead to marital problems.


But you did! On a level that you are clearly deficient in - grammar.

For example, you start this post without a capital letter. His name should have a capital. The 2nd sentance also starts without a capital.

A lot of subjective opinion and thought develops into change. Change and adaptation underscores the evolution of societies throughout the ages.

Unfortunately these days, most societal change is driven by a profit or a control motive, framed by those in charge as "being for our own good" or making our lives "better".

RamzFanz tomatopaste have messages and opinions that we may not wish to hear. TP does his cause a great disservice by being so immature.

The post by Elmo Burrito is insightful, he correctly indicates a big motivator for automakers being heavily involved. Vehicle ownership is dropping, heavily in the 20-30yr bracket, who have are now the heaviest users of app-based taxi services.

Automakers are trying their hardest to align with companies such as a Lyft, UBER, Ola seeing how these organisations increase the utilisation of cars to the point where they need to be tossed out as Elmo points out every few years.

Keep an open-mind is all I say. If Change brings choice, all well and good.


----------



## heynow321

RamzFanz said:


> Where would you like to start? I mean, it's hard to substantiate but I figure the number of companies and amount of investment towards a single goal speaks for itself. When you look at a single goal by worldwide corporations and their investments, is there even a comparison?
> 
> I think not. I've tried, I've looked, there is none. Some idiot said TRAINS!
> 
> As always, nothing substantive.
> 
> I'm giving you a free opportunity to debate this fact. Make your points.
> 
> Fair warning, I WANT you to debate this. I HOPE you debate this. Have at it. Crush me.


I already did. You choose to ignore it as usual.



iheartuber said:


> Buddy, I already GAVE you the benefit of the doubt on this. I have no idea if this is the "single biggest undertaking" but let's say it is. Even if it is, nothing has really happened yet, so they should be laying low.


It's not. The amount of capital invested worldwide in the energy business dwarfs this little nerd tech project. As does the amount of capital invested in the telecommunications industry. Ramz doesn't have a business or finance background. He has a background in lawn care which he can't even do well as he lost his ass in 2008.


----------



## tomatopaste

Sydney Uber said:


> TP does his cause a great disservice by being so immature.


Mom?


----------



## Sydney Uber

tomatopaste said:


> Mom?


So! you've heard that before huh?


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Mom?


TP thinks he's untouchable because the people he's working with are spending a lot of money and he thinks they have a lot of power. The truth is, no one has so much power to make people give up their freedom willingly.

He doesn't get that, probably because he slept thru history class in high school.


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> TP thinks he's untouchable because the people he's working with are spending a lot of money and he thinks they have a lot of power. The truth is, no one has so much power to make people give up their freedom willingly.
> 
> He doesn't get that, probably because he slept thru history class in high school.


I put in a good word for tohunt4me to become a sandwich maker. He might need an assistant in charge of mayo.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> I put in a good word for tohunt4me to become a sandwich maker. He might need an assistant in charge of mayo.


As soon as your use to these people is over you will be dead. So, there's that to look forward to.



Sydney Uber said:


> But you did! On a level that you are clearly deficient in - grammar.
> 
> For example, you start this post without a capital letter. His name should have a capital. The 2nd sentance also starts without a capital.
> 
> A lot of subjective opinion and thought develops into change. Change and adaptation underscores the evolution of societies throughout the ages.
> 
> Unfortunately these days, most societal change is driven by a profit or a control motive, framed by those in charge as "being for our own good" or making our lives "better".
> 
> RamzFanz tomatopaste have messages and opinions that we may not wish to hear. TP does his cause a great disservice by being so immature.
> 
> The post by Elmo Burrito is insightful, he correctly indicates a big motivator for automakers being heavily involved. Vehicle ownership is dropping, heavily in the 20-30yr bracket, who have are now the heaviest users of app-based taxi services.
> 
> Automakers are trying their hardest to align with companies such as a Lyft, UBER, Ola seeing how these organisations increase the utilisation of cars to the point where they need to be tossed out as Elmo points out every few years.
> 
> Keep an open-mind is all I say. If Change brings choice, all well and good.


tomatopaste thinks he's working for some James Bond Spectre group of high powered people who are literally going to buy their way into radically changing society.

Me, I think he's just a tourist


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> As soon as your use to these people is over you will be dead. So, there's that to look forward to.
> 
> tomatopaste thinks he's working for some James Bond Spectre group of high powered people who are literally going to buy their way into radically changing society.
> 
> Me, I think he's just a tourist


There are still peanut butter positions available too.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> There are still peanut butter positions available too.


Monica is listed in the signature of your account. Bring her back!!

She's normal. You're creepy!


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Monica is listed in the signature of your account. Bring her back!!
> 
> She's normal. You're creepy!
> View attachment 210433


you're just tired of getting spanked


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> you're just tired of getting spanked


1. Monica doesn't spank- the irony being is I would actually not mind it from her
2. You only think you "slap me around", which is weird that you even think in those terms


----------



## tohunt4me

iheartuber said:


> As soon as your use to these people is over you will be dead. So, there's that to look forward to.
> 
> tomatopaste thinks he's working for some James Bond Spectre group of high powered people who are literally going to buy their way into radically changing society.
> 
> Me, I think he's just a tourist


Arent they planning to kill off 90% of the population any way ?

Or is it 99% and they just tell the 10% they will own the earth ?


----------



## RamzFanz

heynow321 said:


> It's not. The amount of capital invested worldwide in the energy business dwarfs this little nerd tech project. As does the amount of capital invested in the telecommunications industry. Ramz doesn't have a business or finance background. He has a background in lawn care which he can't even do well as he lost his ass in 2008.


You know dude, I try to be easy on you but you're so childish.

We're discussing a NEW TECHNOLOGY here, not capitol investment into a mature industry. What we are watching has never been done before at this scale. Boo hoo all you want, throw around nonsensical and erroneous insults, it's not going to change.


----------



## iheartuber

RamzFanz said:


> You know dude, I try to be easy on you but you're so childish.
> 
> We're discussing a NEW TECHNOLOGY here, not capitol investment into a mature industry. What we are watching has never been done before at this scale. Boo hoo all you want, throw around nonsensical and erroneous insults, it's not going to change.


Since we're on the subject RamzFanz you said it yourself- this is something that has never been done before at this scale. So why do you think it will take anything less than decades to happen?


----------



## RamzFanz

iheartuber said:


> Since we're on the subject RamzFanz you said it yourself- this is something that has never been done before at this scale. So why do you think it will take anything less than decades to happen?


Because it already has happened and it's already been decades in the coming.

SDCs were envisioned in the 1920's, advanced many times through the decades, and became 100% feasible, value vs cost, technology advancement, computing power, etc. about 10-15 years ago.

This is the end game.


----------



## iheartuber

RamzFanz said:


> Because it already has happened and it's already been decades in the coming.
> 
> SDCs were envisioned in the 1920's, advanced many times through the decades, and became 100% feasible, value vs cost, technology advancement, computing power, etc. about 10-15 years ago.
> 
> This is the end game.


Sir the only thing that's happened so far with the SDCs is that they have become the Segway: meaning yes, they were dreamed up, yes on paper it has the potential to be gobbled up by everyone, but in reality the public took one look at it and said "eh... I don't think so"

It's POSSIBLE that MAYBE someday SDCs can be as huge and as popular as the iPhone, but for many many reasons we're nowhere near that as of today.

Again, one more time, SDCs being everywhere are only possible right now on paper. Reality? That remains to be seen.


----------



## Gung-Ho

If you live in an area that gets snow and you know what a car looks like all gunked up with road salt and sand then you know unlimited sdc’s everywhere are impractical.

How you ever driven on a slushy highway and had a semi splash a gigantic wave of filthy slush on your car? Just want you want when your robot car is going 65 mph...all the cameras and sensors to be instantly blinded.


----------



## tomatopaste

Gung-Ho said:


> If you live in an area that gets snow and you know what a car looks like all gunked up with road salt and sand then you know unlimited sdc's everywhere are impractical.
> 
> How you ever driven on a slushy highway and had a semi splash a gigantic wave of filthy slush on your car? Just want you want when your robot car is going 65 mph...all the cameras and sensors to be instantly blinded.


What happens when the human's senors become instantly blinded?


----------



## Gung-Ho

tomatopaste said:


> What happens when the human's senors become instantly blinded?


We turn on the wipers. Our eyes do the rest.


----------



## tomatopaste

Gung-Ho said:


> We turn on the wipers. Our eyes do the rest.


Correct. And do you think they just might be able to invent a wiper-turn-er-on-er for the robot car senors as well?


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Correct. And do you think they just might be able to invent a wiper-turn-er-on-er for the robot car senors as well?


Question for you tomatopaste ... just for the sake of argument- if it really does take decades to build the kind of transportation system you envision are your Donald Trump jr friends going to have the zen-like patience to wait it out or will they pull the plug if the deadlines you speak of are not met? (Ie uber Phoenix being totally dead in about 2 years)

Actually I know exactly how you will reply. First: let's say you answer truthfully. The answer will either be the developers are in it for the long haul or honestly they're not. If it's answer a) you won't say that because it commits you to looking foolish on the off chance this blows up if it's b) you won't say that either because it puts the group in a negative light.

So if there's no way you can say either answer truthfully what's left? Jokes! And cue the snarky reply in 3... 2... 1....


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Question for you tomatopaste ... just for the sake of argument- if it really does take decades to build the kind of transportation system you envision are your Donald Trump jr friends going to have the zen-like patience to wait it out or will they pull the plug if the deadlines you speak of are not met? (Ie uber Phoenix being totally dead in about 2 years)
> 
> Actually I know exactly how you will reply. First: let's say you answer truthfully. The answer will either be the developers are in it for the long haul or honestly they're not. If it's answer a) you won't say that because it commits you to looking foolish on the off chance this blows up if it's b) you won't say that either because it puts the group in a negative light.
> 
> So if there's no way you can say either answer truthfully what's left? Jokes! And cue the snarky reply in 3... 2... 1....


You're more high maintenance than most chicks


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> You're more high maintenance than most chicks


Oh come on.. THATs your joke? Try again


----------



## Gung-Ho

tomatopaste said:


> Correct. And do you think they just might be able to invent a wiper-turn-er-on-er for the robot car senors as well?


And will they have little washer fluid dispensers for every camera and sensor?

You clearly have no idea what road salt does to a car. You can use a half of a resevoir full of washer fluid in a day trying to keep a windshield clean.


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Oh come on.. THATs your joke? Try again


https://www.buzzfeed.com/genamourba...ance-are-you?utm_term=.rrG3nEkPOa#.fbp8YX4W2m



Gung-Ho said:


> And will they have little washer fluid dispensers for every camera and sensor?
> 
> You clearly have no idea what road salt does to a car. You can use a half of a resevoir full of washer fluid in a day trying to keep a windshield clean.


Clearly.
Not exactly rocket science, now is it?


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> https://www.buzzfeed.com/genamourba...ance-are-you?utm_term=.rrG3nEkPOa#.fbp8YX4W2m
> 
> Clearly.
> Not exactly rocket science, now is it?


That's it- I take back what I said. You're not that funny anymore TP


----------



## RamzFanz

Gung-Ho said:


> If you live in an area that gets snow and you know what a car looks like all gunked up with road salt and sand then you know unlimited sdc's everywhere are impractical.
> 
> How you ever driven on a slushy highway and had a semi splash a gigantic wave of filthy slush on your car? Just want you want when your robot car is going 65 mph...all the cameras and sensors to be instantly blinded.


So when your sensors, your eyes, are blocked by semi-slush because your windshield is covered, what do you do? Die?



iheartuber said:


> Sir the only thing that's happened so far with the SDCs is that they have become the Segway: meaning yes, they were dreamed up, yes on paper it has the potential to be gobbled up by everyone, but in reality the public took one look at it and said "eh... I don't think so"
> 
> It's POSSIBLE that MAYBE someday SDCs can be as huge and as popular as the iPhone, but for many many reasons we're nowhere near that as of today.
> 
> Again, one more time, SDCs being everywhere are only possible right now on paper. Reality? That remains to be seen.


SDCs have acceptance from 27% of Americans that haven't even been in one.

What was it for segways again? Would you say segways were more safe than walking or less? More convenient or less? If you could stand on a segway and have it take you anywhere you wanted, no driving, no balance, no attention, do what you wanted, instead of walking, would you?

Apples and Oranges. One is a long outdated toy that nobody took seriously, the other a world changing evolution in convenience and safety.


----------



## iheartuber

RamzFanz said:


> So when your sensors, your eyes, are blocked by semi-slush because your windshield is covered, what do you do? Die?
> 
> SDCs have acceptance from 27% of Americans that haven't even been in one.
> 
> What was it for segways again? Would you say segways were more safe than walking or less? More convenient or less? If you could stand on a segway and have it take you anywhere you wanted, no driving, no balance, no attention, do what you wanted, instead of walking, would you?
> 
> Apples and Oranges. One is a long outdated toy that nobody took seriously, the other a world changing evolution in convenience and safety.


Don't get confused.

I do not mean to compare SDCs to Segways in any sort of technical way at all. I'm merely using the Segway as an example of a product that's on the market, absolutely available everywhere, and yet... no one wants it.

That's the comparison I'm drawing to SDCs.


----------



## Gung-Ho

RamzFanz said:


> So when your sensors, your eyes, are blocked by semi-slush because your windshield is covered, what do you do? Die?


Another ridiculous reply similar to Tomatopaste.

I...as a human put on my wipers and clear my windshield which is where I need direct the most attention to my environment with side and rear view mirrors.

Just google images of cars covered in road salt...I can't be bothered...and what you see is how cars look for days after a snowstorm.

Take the car through a carwash you say? As long as the road is wet the salt just comes back. 10 minutes after you emerge from a car wash it's right back to covered with crud.


----------



## iheartuber

Gung-Ho said:


> Another ridiculous reply similar to Tomatopaste.
> 
> I...as a human put on my wipers and clear my windshield which is where I need direct the most attention to my environment with side and rear view mirrors.
> 
> Just google images of cars covered in road salt...I can't be bothered...and what you see is how cars look for days after a snowstorm.
> 
> Take the car through a carwash you say? As long as the road is wet the salt just comes back. 10 minutes after you emerge from a car wash it's right back to covered with crud.


The conversation goes like this:

Any seasoned driver on UP: listen guys, you're not really taking into account some pretty important things about auto maintenance...

tomatopaste and RamzFanz: shut up, you're stupid. The entire UP Community is dumb. These things you speak of are really not important. We got this all covered. We spent tons of money. This is happening. It will be everywhere in a few weeks. If you can't see what's right in front of your face, you're an idiot.


----------



## tomatopaste

Gung-Ho said:


> Another ridiculous reply similar to Tomatopaste.
> 
> I...as a human put on my wipers and clear my windshield which is where I need direct the most attention to my environment with side and rear view mirrors.
> 
> Just google images of cars covered in road salt...I can't be bothered...and what you see is how cars look for days after a snowstorm.
> 
> Take the car through a carwash you say? As long as the road is wet the salt just comes back. 10 minutes after you emerge from a car wash it's right back to covered with crud.


And the robot car will engage its wipers when needed. How many backup set of eyes do humans have? Answer: zero. Robot car: four-ish



iheartuber said:


> The conversation goes like this:
> 
> Any seasoned driver on UP: listen guys, you're not really taking into account some pretty important things about auto maintenance...
> 
> tomatopaste and RamzFanz: shut up, you're stupid. The entire UP Community is dumb. These things you speak of are really not important. We got this all covered. We spent tons of money. This is happening. It will be everywhere in a few weeks. If you can't see what's right in front of your face, you're an idiot.


Well said


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> And the robot car will engage its wipers when needed. How many backup set of eyes do humans have? Answer: zero. Robot car: four-ish
> 
> Well said


tomatopaste lets just say for the sake of argument that two years from today the SDC taxi "revolution" is exactly in the same place it is today and all those sweeping changes you predict are "weeks away" do not materialize.

Can I count on you to feast on roasted Crow?


----------



## heynow321

RamzFanz said:


> You know dude, I try to be easy on you but you're so childish.
> 
> We're discussing a NEW TECHNOLOGY here, not capitol investment into a mature industry. What we are watching has never been done before at this scale. Boo hoo all you want, throw around nonsensical and erroneous insults, it's not going to change.


guess what, at some point in time, energy (as we know it) and telecommunications were "new" industries too 

is the diabetes messing with your cognitive function again?


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> tomatopaste lets just say for the sake of argument that two years from today the SDC taxi "revolution" is exactly in the same place it is today and all those sweeping changes you predict are "weeks away" do not materialize.
> 
> Can I count on you to feast on roasted Crow?


The fact that you even hold this out as a possibility is one of the reasons the vaunted UP community is so much fun to make fun of.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> The fact that you even hold this out as a possibility is one of the reasons the vaunted UP community is so much fun to make fun of.


I said "for the sake of argument".

Lemme teach you a lesson about life: NOTHING IS GUARANTEED.

Why don't cha learn something about life, kid?


----------



## jocker12

iheartuber said:


> I said "for the sake of argument".
> 
> Lemme teach you a lesson about life: NOTHING IS GUARANTEED.
> 
> Why don't cha learn something about life, kid?


I suggest you start ignoring the nonsense coming from trolls. You get caught in ridiculous arguments not related to the main topic. This is not about debating with Scientology type supporters. If you want to have a serious discussion, that only can be done with serious individuals. Just think about it.


----------



## iheartuber

jocker12 said:


> I suggest you start ignoring the nonsense coming from trolls. You get caught in ridiculous arguments not related to the main topic. This is not about debating with Scientology type supporters. If you want to have a serious discussion, that only can be done with serious individuals. Just think about it.


Yeah you're right.

At this point the only thing to do is wait a while, come back, and say "so TP... what happened to the things you said were gonna happen?"

That's it pretty much


----------



## jocker12

iheartuber said:


> Yeah you're right.
> 
> At this point the only thing to do is wait a while, come back, and say "so TP... what happened to the things you said were gonna happen?"
> 
> That's it pretty much


We know they are not adding anything to the discussion. For them is only about denying the facts or make annoying comments to irritate forum members. Like early teenagers... We can actually have a objective discussion on every single decent post here. The old failed sprinkler genius and the troll could be ignored.


----------



## iheartuber

jocker12 said:


> We know they are not adding anything to the discussion. For them is only about denying the facts or make annoying comments to irritate forum members. Like early teenagers... We can actually have a objective discussion on every single decent post here. The old failed sprinkler genius and the troll could be ignored.


When the consortium of Donald Trump wanna-be's hired the Tomato's firm and the decision was made to engage on UP, did TP get explicit directions to be a Troll? Or did he just do that on his own?


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> I said "for the sake of argument".
> 
> Lemme teach you a lesson about life: NOTHING IS GUARANTEED.
> 
> Why don't cha learn something about life, kid?


You didn't even take the quiz, did you?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/genamourba...ance-are-you?utm_term=.arzMJQmYRL#.vu590Dxm5r



jocker12 said:


> I suggest you start ignoring the nonsense coming from trolls. You get caught in ridiculous arguments not related to the main topic. This is not about debating with Scientology type supporters. If you want to have a serious discussion, that only can be done with serious individuals. Just think about it.


Jockey: seek safety in the bubble.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> You didn't even take the quiz, did you?
> 
> https://www.buzzfeed.com/genamourba...ance-are-you?utm_term=.arzMJQmYRL#.vu590Dxm5r
> 
> Jockey: seek safety in the bubble.


jocker12 and... ignoring now


----------



## tomatopaste

Gung-Ho said:


> Another ridiculous reply similar to Tomatopaste.
> 
> I...as a human put on my wipers and clear my windshield which is where I need direct the most attention to my environment with side and rear view mirrors.
> 
> Just google images of cars covered in road salt...I can't be bothered...and what you see is how cars look for days after a snowstorm.
> 
> Take the car through a carwash you say? As long as the road is wet the salt just comes back. 10 minutes after you emerge from a car wash it's right back to covered with crud.


As a human you have no other choice until humans evolve to have 8 separate sets of eyes. I showed you that the issue was solved decades ago but you chose to ignored it cause you had nothing to say



iheartuber said:


> jocker12 and... ignoring now


Don't accept anything less than a north facing seat in the bubble, it can get hot in there. Use the time to work on your mayo and peanut butter skills.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> As a human you have no other choice until humans evolve to have 8 separate sets of eyes. I showed you that the issue was solved decades ago but you chose to ignored it cause you had nothing to say
> 
> Don't accept anything less than a north facing seat in the bubble, it can get hot in there. Use the time to work on your mayo and peanut butter skills.


You really are drunk on that Kool Aid.

No matter. In a year's time when nothing much has happened with SDCs I'll come back here and rub your nose in it.

But I'm sure you'll have some excuse


----------



## jocker12

iheartuber said:


> You really are drunk on that Kool Aid.
> 
> No matter. In a year's time when nothing much has happened with SDCs I'll come back here and rub your nose in it.
> 
> But I'm sure you'll have some excuse


As long as you answer them you empower stupidity and fake information. Be smart, click ignore and reboot to serious discussions. Do not go low for the argument, go high for the facts. This is not about trolls my friend.


----------



## iheartuber

jocker12 said:


> As long as you answer them you empower stupidity and fake information. Be smart, click ignore and reboot to serious discussions. Do not go low for the argument, go high for the facts. This is not about trolls my friend.


But... but... but.. it will feel so good to rub his nose in it next year.... 
-\__/-


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> You really are drunk on that Kool Aid.
> 
> No matter. In a year's time when nothing much has happened with SDCs I'll come back here and rub your nose in it.
> 
> But I'm sure you'll have some excuse


I don't think Iheart understands how bubbles work.












jocker12 said:


> As long as you answer them you empower stupidity and fake information. Be smart, click ignore and reboot to serious discussions. Do not go low for the argument, go high for the facts. This is not about trolls my friend.


BYOL - bring your own lube


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> I don't think Iheart understands how bubbles work.


You're the one in the bubble! Why don't you go build some section 8 housing next to public transportation. No taxis necessary (robot or otherwise)


----------



## tomatopaste

jocker12 said:


> As long as you answer them you empower stupidity and fake information. Be smart, click ignore and reboot to serious discussions. Do not go low for the argument, go high for the facts. This is not about trolls my friend.


I don't think "the community" thought it through. They're all hunkered down in the bubble safe from the rotten Tomato, while the Tomato is mobile outside free to lob tomatoes.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> I don't think "the community" thought it through. They're all hunkered down in the bubble safe from the rotten Tomato, while the Tomato is mobile outside free to lob tomatoes.
> 
> View attachment 211545


BAGHDAD BOB!!!!


----------



## jocker12

iheartuber said:


> But... but... but.. it will feel so good to rub his nose in it next year....
> -\__/-


You wont be able to do such thing, because trolls simply disappear and never come back. They are playing with you because you allow them to by giving them your attention. I am inviting you to the honest and necessary discussion as opposed to the mockery few users do. If you want to have a voice you need to step over the midgets.... sorry dwarfs.... sorry lilliputians. Again, this is not about the army of pygmy's. It is about transportation and how few lying nerds want to make a fortune by following an impossible disruptive model.


----------



## tomatopaste

jocker12 said:


> You wont be able to do such thing, because trolls simply disappear and never come back. They are playing with you because you allow them to by giving them your attention. I am inviting you to the honest and necessary discussion as opposed to the mockery few users do. If you want to have a voice you need to step over the midgets.... sorry dwarfs.... sorry lilliputians. Again, this is not about the army of pygmy's. It is about transportation and how few lying nerds want to make a fortune by following an impossible disruptive model.


Cross over into the bubble iheartuber. It's not safe out here.






There is peace and serenity in the bubble.


----------



## iheartuber

jocker12 said:


> You wont be able to do such thing, because trolls simply disappear and never come back. They are playing with you because you allow them to by giving them your attention. I am inviting you to the honest and necessary discussion as opposed to the mockery few users do. If you want to have a voice you need to step over the midgets.... sorry dwarfs.... sorry lilliputians. Again, this is not about the army of pygmy's. It is about transportation and how few lying nerds want to make a fortune by following an impossible disruptive model.


So you're saying that if (or more likely when) in about one or two years when we find ourselves in pretty much the same spot we're in right now in terms of an SDC taxi service, if I were to try to find the Tomato to give him a hearty "I told ya so" I would find the Tomato wouldn't even be here? He would be long gone?


----------



## RamzFanz

Gung-Ho said:


> Another ridiculous reply similar to Tomatopaste.
> 
> I...as a human put on my wipers and clear my windshield which is where I need direct the most attention to my environment with side and rear view mirrors.
> 
> Just google images of cars covered in road salt...I can't be bothered...and what you see is how cars look for days after a snowstorm.
> 
> Take the car through a carwash you say? As long as the road is wet the salt just comes back. 10 minutes after you emerge from a car wash it's right back to covered with crud.


So you ARE able to overcome your sensors being blocked using a strategy?



jocker12 said:


> It is about transportation and how few lying nerds want to make a fortune by following an impossible disruptive model.


A few lying nerds? A few lying nerds?

LOL! Dude, stop.

Seriously, so sad you have to stoop to nonsense to try and obfuscate your fears.



heynow321 said:


> guess what, at some point in time, energy (as we know it) and telecommunications were "new" industries too
> 
> is the diabetes messing with your cognitive function again?


You made a ridiculous comparison. You should just let it lie.


----------



## jocker12

jocker12 said:


> You wont be able to do such thing, because trolls simply disappear and never come back. They are playing with you because you allow them to by giving them your attention. I am inviting you to the honest and necessary discussion as opposed to the mockery few users do. If you want to have a voice you need to step over the midgets.... sorry dwarfs.... sorry lilliputians. Again, this is not about the army of pygmy's. It is about transportation and how few lying nerds want to make a fortune by following an impossible disruptive model.


I am telling you it's not worth it. Instead on focusing on the minuses (no value to the forum), you could go for the pluses (value to the topics). In the trolling world, whatever is being said today has no value tomorrow and you are going in circles. By ignoring stupidity, you can make the troll invisible not only to you, but to everybody!


----------



## tomatopaste

jocker12 said:


> I am telling you it's not worth it. Instead on focusing on the minuses (no value to the forum), you could go for the pluses (value to the topics). In the trolling world, whatever is being said today has no value tomorrow and you are going in circles. By ignoring stupidity, you can make the troll invisible not only to you, but to everybody!


To run and hide in the bubble with all the other brave warriors or not. It's all so so confusing.


----------



## Gung-Ho

RamzFanz said:


> So you ARE able to overcome your sensors being blocked using a strategy?.


As I'm driving along after a snow event my EYES are not restricted being covered with road salt residue.

Just because you keep giving answers to everything doesn't mean they make sense or are based on reality just like that the other bot responser.

And I have two more words for you. BLACK ICE. No robot car is going to be intuitive enough to anticipate when the conditions will occur nor have the sense and feeling while driving that those conditions are present and act accordingly.


----------



## iheartuber

Gung-Ho said:


> As I'm driving along after a snow event my EYES are not restricted being covered with road salt residue.
> 
> Just because you keep giving answers to everything doesn't mean they make sense or are based on reality just like that the other bot responser.
> 
> And I have two more words for you. BLACK ICE. No robot car is going to be intuitive enough to anticipate when the conditions will occur nor have the sense and feeling while driving that those conditions are present and act accordingly.


If the real reason why they want robot taxis to exist is to squeeze a few extra square feet into high rises, that sounds like a situation only present in big cities. They might not even care if robot cars are in the rural areas.


----------



## tomatopaste

Gung-Ho said:


> As I'm driving along after a snow event my EYES are not restricted being covered with road salt residue.
> 
> Just because you keep giving answers to everything doesn't mean they make sense or are based on reality just like that the other bot responser.
> 
> And I have two more words for you. BLACK ICE. No robot car is going to be intuitive enough to anticipate when the conditions will occur nor have the sense and feeling while driving that those conditions are present and act accordingly.


Because your eyes are not exposed to the elements and are behind glass, just like the eyes of the robot car. However the robot car has multiple sets of eyes distributed all around the car.

Some systems don't use wipers, just sprayers. Robot cars will use whichever system works best or a combination of both.











Self driving cars won't need to rely on intuition. The system will know the temperature and dew point and know black ice is possible. Plus it will receive warnings from previous cars on that stretch of road that there is black ice 2,763.43 feet ahead.


----------



## jocker12

Gung-Ho said:


> As I'm driving along after a snow event my EYES are not restricted being covered with road salt residue.


Snow it's a big issue to deal with because it's hard to detect it's depth of field by the cameras (it's white and hardly creates shadows) and hard to detect how deep it is with a lidar sensor (because the laser cannot get through the snow). Nobody qualified (not the amateurish idiots) wants to talk about dirty sensors, because is their menace. and impossible to deal with unless you spend $1 million for every single robot, which is simply unrealistic.



Gung-Ho said:


> BLACK ICE


At this point in time, no developer is thinking that far. Their main concern is how to continue testing on public roads and God help them, avoid any problems, because problems (major and minor) will ultimately kill the artificial hype and make the companies close their shops. I am sure they will not go far enough to have to deal with black ice detection. It's comical how few imbeciles without inside information and also without logic, think their self driving cars "super heroes" could build or fix anything.....(as long as an unidentified entity will pay real money for it).



iheartuber said:


> They might not even care if robot cars are in the rural areas.


Trump administration is easy on self driving cars legislation under the condition of having all the companies involved test and implement autonomous cars concept especially in the rural America. The conflict comes from the business itself, which will (in theory) develop much slower if introduced in rural areas than if introduced in the cities.(reported on Oct.10.2017 - "Efrati reports that *Waymo CEO John Krafcik faces pressure from his boss, Google co-founder and Alphabet CEO Larry Page*, to transform Waymo's impressive self-driving technology into a shipping product." by https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/1...unch-commercial-driverless-service-this-year/)

While rural areas give self driving developers the space and the time necessary to grow little by little, doesn't provide them the same traffic challenges, promotional value or financial rewards as few important cities could. Rural America represents a fifth of the entire nation - "In the 2010 Census, 59.5 million people, 19.3% of the population, was rural while more than 95% of the land area is still classified as rural."(according to the U.S. Census Bureau) - and it's vital to provide them the same type of mobility companies *promise* to provide to the urban areas, because 1 in 5 Americans lives outside the cities.

Now, going back to the harsh reality, companies have a difficult decision to make - go to the cities, put the cars in challenging traffic with a high risk of failure but good enough chances to promote the concept and keep the hype alive using sneaky corporate propaganda, or follow the government guidelines and recommendations, go to the rural areas, take it slowly and risk CEO's patience for spending more and more billions for basically nothing? I am sure the developers, for the sake of their salaries, will go to the rural areas, but they don't have the balls to tell their CEO's how this BS will hit the fan if they go to the cities for a "make or brake" type of final approach.

A CEO that tolerated more than 9 years of research on a continuously growing bill, will push for the "moment of truth", because CEO's goal is companies profit not societies progress, and instead of having to spend more and more billions with no real result in sight, will press for deployment. If it works and people like it, so be it, if it fails and people hate it, billions could be spent on other promising projects. After all, technology today is not about peoples necessities but how corporations will be capable to sell unnecessary products to brainwashed consumers.


----------



## tomatopaste

jocker12 said:


> At this point in time, no developer is thinking that far. Their main concern is how to continue testing on the public roads and God help them, avoid any problems, because problems (major and minor) will ultimately kill the artificial hype and make the companies close their shops. I am sure they will not go far enough to have to deal with black ice detection. It's comical how few imbeciles without inside information and also without logic, think their self driving cars "super heroes" could build or fix anything.....(as long as an unidentified entity will pay real money for it).


Blah blah blah

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...will-test-self-driving-cars-in-wintry-detroit


----------



## iheartuber

jocker12 said:


> Snow it's a big issue to deal with because it's hard to detect it's depth of field by the cameras (it's white and hardly creates shadows) and hard to detect how deep it is with a lidar sensor (because the laser cannot get through the snow). Nobody qualified (not the amateurish idiots) wants to talk about dirty sensors, because is their menace. and impossible to deal with unless you spend $1 million for every single robot, which is simply unrealistic.
> 
> At this point in time, no developer is thinking that far. Their main concern is how to continue testing on public roads and God help them, avoid any problems, because problems (major and minor) will ultimately kill the artificial hype and make the companies close their shops. I am sure they will not go far enough to have to deal with black ice detection. It's comical how few imbeciles without inside information and also without logic, think their self driving cars "super heroes" could build or fix anything.....(as long as an unidentified entity will pay real money for it).
> 
> Trump administration is easy on self driving cars legislation under the condition of having all the companies involved test and implement autonomous cars concept especially in the rural America. The conflict comes from the business itself, which will (in theory) develop much slower if introduced in rural areas than if introduced in the cities.(reported on Oct.10.2017 - "Efrati reports that *Waymo CEO John Krafcik faces pressure from his boss, Google co-founder and Alphabet CEO Larry Page*, to transform Waymo's impressive self-driving technology into a shipping product." by https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/1...unch-commercial-driverless-service-this-year/)
> 
> While rural areas give self driving developers the space and the time necessary to grow little by little, doesn't provide them the same traffic challenges, promotional value or financial rewards as few important cities could. Rural America represents a fifth of the entire nation - "In the 2010 Census, 59.5 million people, 19.3% of the population, was rural while more than 95% of the land area is still classified as rural."(according to the U.S. Census Bureau) - and it's vital to provide them the same type of mobility companies *promise* to provide to the urban areas, because 1 in 5 Americans lives outside the cities.
> 
> Now, going back to the harsh reality, companies have a difficult decision to make - go to the cities, put the cars in challenging traffic with a high risk of failure but good enough chances to promote the concept and keep the hype alive using sneaky corporate propaganda, or follow the government guidelines and recommendations, go to the rural areas, take it slowly and risk CEO's patience for spending more and more billions for basically nothing? I am sure the developers, for the sake of their salaries, will go to the rural areas, but they don't have the balls to tell their CEO's how this BS will hit the fan if they go to the cities for a "make or brake" type of final approach.
> 
> A CEO that tolerated more than 9 years of research on a continuously growing bill, will push for the "moment of truth", because CEO's goal is companies profit not societies progress, and instead of having to spend more and more billions with no real result in sight, will press for deployment. If it works and people like it, so be it, if it fails and people hate it, billions could be spent on other promising projects. After all, technology today is not about peoples necessities but how corporations will be capable to sell unnecessary products to brainwashed consumers.


All true except one thing- this will not fail. I know that because a very smart guy told me. His name is tomatopaste

The "proof" he offered that what he says is true is that anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot.

Clearer logic has never been shown


----------



## jocker12

iheartuber said:


> All true except one thing- this will not fail. I know that because a very smart guy told me. His name is tomatopaste
> 
> The "proof" he offered that what he says is true is that anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot.
> 
> Clearer logic has never been shown


Arguing with or commenting about a troll means nothing. Having an honest discussion about transportation and self driving cars is the only important thing in this section of the forum.

I can add more context to the entire self driving circus...

We can try to understand where Waymo stands.

I am sure you already know about latest MIT study that concluded how Uber and Lyft drivers have a $3.37 per hour median profit. Of course both companies refuted the conclusions, an Uber spokesperson saying "While the paper is certainly attention grabbing, its methodology and findings are deeply flawed. We've reached out to the paper's authors to share our concerns and suggest ways we might work together to refine their approach."

Now, we're all driving for one, for the other or for both platforms, and we're also familiar with their rates and their business conduct. That's why we also know there could be smart drivers that know what they are doing and bank $20 to $30 per hour, and also there could be the vast majority of the rest of the drivers, moving like zombies happy for their gas change. Over all, when you do the median study, $3.37 per hour sounds like the pretty, pretty.... accurate number. Now MIT results "are based on surveys of more than 1,100 drivers who told researchers about their revenue, how many miles they drove and what type of car they used. The study's authors then combined that with typical costs associated with a certain* car's insurance*, *maintenance*, *gas and depreciation*, which was gathered in data from Edmunds, Kelley Blue Book and the Environmental Protection Agency".

So, where is the connection between this study, self driving cars and Waymo?

Well, one of the most important reasons and *big lies* self driving cars developers and rideshare platforms corporate people push self driving cars FLEETS for, is because that model will eliminate the driver, or as Kalanick put it back in 2014 - "The reason Uber could be expensive is *you're paying for the other dude in the car*. When there is no other dude in the car, the cost of taking an Uber anywhere is cheaper. Even on a road trip."

Looking at the conclusions of the MIT study, it looks like "the dude in the car" doesn't make too much money after all....

When it comes to self driving cars fleets, managing them includes what MIT already considered (insurance, maintenance, gas and depreciation) plus vehicle tracking systems expenses, fleet management software expenses, fleet security and control expenses, and fleet replacement and lifecycle management expenses, which in this situation will chip into that already ridiculously low $3.37 per hour corporations will have left after eliminating "the dudes" from the cars.

Admiring this string of fleet management expenses versus median driver profit per hour, it's easy to understand how Uber could be expensive NOT because riders are paying for the _other dudes_ in the cars, and *how - when there will be no dude in the cars - the prices could stay the same or even go higher. 
*
And Waymo?

Well Waymo has a product to sell - it's self driving cars operating system. They have abandoned the idea of a self driving car (Google is no longer developing its own self-driving car: report) back in 2016. They seemed to be pushing for an autonomous cars ridesharing service.... until the Uber news broke out. I am sure many already know how Waymo is interested in allowing Uber to use Chrysler Pacifica's self driving equipped vehicles on Uber's platform, like Waymo already does with Lyft. Question is why? And the answer, which I've explained many times, lays in the corporate culture every single company involved in self driving cars technology has. They are all the same. All these corporations have the same values with the same goals within the same culture. It is *not about progress*, *consumers or the future BS*. It is about making sure they will bank the biggest profit considering the circumstances.

No matter if it's Tesla, Uber, Lyft, GM, Ford, Waymo or Volvo, the product is the self driving cars software, and as long as you correctly and accurately define your ambitions according to your capabilities to deliver, nothing else matters. Or I should say, only money matter.

Problem is the MIT study shows they are betting on a dead horse already, and I'm afraid Waymo wants to convince Uber self driving cars is an Arabian horse ready to became a beautiful Triple Crown winner.


----------



## tomatopaste

jocker12 said:


> Arguing with or commenting about a troll means nothing. Having an honest discussion about transportation and self driving cars is the only important thing in this section of the forum.
> 
> I can add more context to the entire self driving circus...
> 
> We can try to understand where Waymo stands.
> 
> I am sure you already know about latest MIT study that concluded how Uber and Lyft drivers have a $3.37 per hour median profit. Of course both companies refuted the conclusions, an Uber spokesperson saying "While the paper is certainly attention grabbing, its methodology and findings are deeply flawed. We've reached out to the paper's authors to share our concerns and suggest ways we might work together to refine their approach."
> 
> Now, we're all driving for one, for the other or for both platforms, and we're also familiar with their rates and their business conduct. That's why we also know there could be smart drivers that know what they are doing and bank $20 to $30 per hour, and also there could be the vast majority of the rest of the drivers, moving like zombies happy for their gas change. Over all, when you do the median study, $3.37 per hour sounds like the pretty, pretty.... accurate number. Now MIT results "are based on surveys of more than 1,100 drivers who told researchers about their revenue, how many miles they drove and what type of car they used. The study's authors then combined that with typical costs associated with a certain* car's insurance*, *maintenance*, *gas and depreciation*, which was gathered in data from Edmunds, Kelley Blue Book and the Environmental Protection Agency".
> 
> So, where is the connection between this study, self driving cars and Waymo?
> 
> Well, one of the most important reasons and *big lies* self driving cars developers and rideshare platforms corporate people push self driving cars FLEETS for, is because that model will eliminate the driver, or as Kalanick put it back in 2014 - "The reason Uber could be expensive is *you're paying for the other dude in the car*. When there is no other dude in the car, the cost of taking an Uber anywhere is cheaper. Even on a road trip."
> 
> Looking at the conclusions of the MIT study, it looks like "the dude in the car" doesn't make too much money after all....
> 
> When it comes to self driving cars fleets, managing them includes what MIT already considered (insurance, maintenance, gas and depreciation) plus vehicle tracking systems expenses, fleet management software expenses, fleet security and control expenses, and fleet replacement and lifecycle management expenses, which in this situation will chip into that already ridiculously low $3.37 per hour corporations will have left after eliminating "the dudes" from the cars.
> 
> Admiring this string of fleet management expenses versus median driver profit per hour, it's easy to understand how Uber could be expensive NOT because riders are paying for the _other dudes_ in the cars, and *how - when there will be no dude in the cars - the prices could stay the same or even go higher.
> *
> And Waymo?
> 
> Well Waymo has a product to sell - it's self driving cars operating system. They have abandoned the idea of a self driving car (Google is no longer developing its own self-driving car: report) back in 2016. They seemed to be pushing for an autonomous cars ridesharing service.... until the Uber news broke out. I am sure many already know how Waymo is interested in allowing Uber to use Chrysler Pacifica's self driving equipped vehicles on Uber's platform, like Waymo already does with Lyft. Question is why? And the answer, which I've explained many times, lays in the corporate culture every single company involved in self driving cars technology has. They are all the same. All these corporations have the same values with the same goals within the same culture. It is *not about progress*, *consumers or the future BS*. It is about making sure they will bank the biggest profit considering the circumstances.
> 
> No matter if it's Tesla, Uber, Lyft, GM, Ford, Waymo or Volvo, the product is the self driving cars software, and as long as you correctly and accurately define your ambitions according to your capabilities to deliver, nothing else matters. Or I should say, only money matter.
> 
> Problem is the MIT study shows they are betting on a dead horse already, and I'm afraid Waymo wants to convince Uber self driving cars is an Arabian horse ready to became a beautiful Triple Crown winner.


Lordy Jockey, no one reads your meandering posts. Brevity is the soul of wit.



iheartuber said:


> All true except one thing- this will not fail. I know that because a very smart guy told me. His name is tomatopaste
> 
> The "proof" he offered that what he says is true is that anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot.
> 
> Clearer logic has never been shown


Iheart is having a hard time adjusting to the bubble.

https://www.google.com/search?q=str...AhVN8WMKHTUPDEAQ9QEILTAB#imgrc=bPOWhNTQ4CvPjM:


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Lordy Jockey, no one reads your meandering posts. Brevity is the soul of wit.
> 
> Iheart is having a hard time adjusting to the bubble.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=straight+jacket+gif&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS648US648&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=bPOWhNTQ4CvPjM%3A%2C4Ho60WLxASy4dM%2C_&usg=__czLviVP0e4LbPnXEZ8ENNrmXfbY=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwik7u_mkt7ZAhVN8WMKHTUPDEAQ9QEILTAB#imgrc=bPOWhNTQ4CvPjM:


Hey tomatopaste in 1 year, when your "but it's weeks away!" Prediction doesn't come true, you won't even be here anymore


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> Hey tomatopaste in 1 year, when your "but it's weeks away!" Prediction doesn't come true, you won't even be here anymore


Jockey: "Arguing with or commenting about a troll means nothing. Having an honest discussion about transportation and self driving cars is the only important thing in this section of the forum."

Jockey is going to whoop your ass.



iheartuber said:


> Hey tomatopaste in 1 year, when your "but it's weeks away!" Prediction doesn't come true, you won't even be here anymore


Waymo has 600 self driving Chrysler Pacifica mini vans in Phoenix, with no one in the driver's seat, driving everyday citizens that signed up for the early rider program, where they want to go as we speak. They're adding 1 million miles to their self driving total every 3 months.

What's the difference between an everyday citizen that signed up for the early rider program and a regular everyday citizen? Answer: nothing. All your hopes and dreams of a self driving calamity are teetering on the absurd fantasy that Waymo won't ever be able to figure out how to run people's credit cards.


----------



## HotUberMess

It’ll take them .02 seconds to adapt car washes to driverless cars


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Jockey: "Arguing with or commenting about a troll means nothing. Having an honest discussion about transportation and self driving cars is the only important thing in this section of the forum."
> 
> Jockey is going to whoop your ass.
> 
> Waymo has 600 self driving Chrysler Pacifica mini vans in Phoenix, with no one in the driver's seat, driving everyday citizens that signed up for the early rider program, where they want to go as we speak. They're adding 1 million miles to their self driving total every 3 months.
> 
> What's the difference between an everyday citizen that signed up for the early rider program and a regular everyday citizen? Answer: nothing. All your hopes and dreams of a self driving calamity are teetering on the absurd fantasy that Waymo won't ever be able to figure out how to run people's credit cards.


"Waymo has 600 self driving Chrysler Pacifica mini vans in Phoenix, with no one in the driver's seat,"

That and $4 will get you a coffee


----------



## tomatopaste

jocker12 said:


> Arguing with or commenting about a troll means nothing. Having an honest discussion about transportation and self driving cars is the only important thing in this section of the forum.


Jockey, if you can't keep your bubble boys from talking to the enemy, maybe there needs to be a new bubble head.


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> Jockey, if you can't keep your bubble boys from talking to the enemy, maybe there needs to be a new bubble head.


I can't wait til you go away


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> I can't wait til you go away


hehehehehe


----------



## tomatopaste

tomatopaste said:


> Jockey, if you can't keep your bubble boys from talking to the enemy, maybe there needs to be a new bubble head.


See what I did there?


----------



## iheartuber

tomatopaste said:


> See what I did there?


You've officially bored me to death.

Talk to you in a few months when all your predictions will not come true


----------



## tomatopaste

iheartuber said:


> You've officially bored me to death.
> 
> Talk to you in a few months when all your predictions will not come true


San Francisco is el toasto. How long do you suppose it'll be before Los Angeles is toasted?

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber...rs-for-self-driving-cars.245892/#post-3707506


----------



## RamzFanz

Gung-Ho said:


> As I'm driving along after a snow event my EYES are not restricted being covered with road salt residue.
> 
> Just because you keep giving answers to everything doesn't mean they make sense or are based on reality just like that the other bot responser.
> 
> And I have two more words for you. BLACK ICE. No robot car is going to be intuitive enough to anticipate when the conditions will occur nor have the sense and feeling while driving that those conditions are present and act accordingly.


When your windshield is covered, you can't see. You turn on wipers.

Give me $200 and 2 days and I could resolve this issue with the sensors just as I'm sure every SDC company out there is doing. Do you really think they haven't thought of this?

A SDC could detect and react to any slipping event before you could even realize what is happening. Once noted, every other car in the fleet would be aware of the hazard within seconds. Human's can't do that.


----------



## Gung-Ho

RamzFanz said:


> When your windshield is covered, you can't see. You turn on wipers.
> 
> Give me $200 and 2 days and I could resolve this issue with the sensors just as I'm sure every SDC company out there is doing. Do you really think they haven't thought of this?
> 
> A SDC could detect and react to any slipping event before you could even realize what is happening. Once noted, every other car in the fleet would be aware of the hazard within seconds. Human's can't do that.


"$200 and 2 days." That statement is so obtuse and preposterous it qualifies you to be considered clinically insane.

Just like your buddy you've clearly never lived or experienced a wintery climate and have no idea the challenges they create. I can't explain all the cause and effects of black ice without writing a mini novel.

Good day and I hope they serve you jello for dessert today.


----------



## transporter007

jocker12 said:


> The most cutting-edge cars on the planet require an old-fashioned handwashing.
> 
> Car washes have been automated for decades, but companies developing fully autonomous vehicles must rely on a human touch to keep their cars and trucks in working condition.
> 
> There are a range of problems with putting a self-driving vehicle through a traditional car wash, experts say.
> 
> For example, *soap residue or water spots could effectively "blind" an autonomous car*. A traditional car wash's *heavy brushes could jar the vehicle's sensors*, *disrupting their calibration and accuracy*. Even worse, sensors, which can cost over $100,000, could be broken.
> 
> A self-driving vehicle's *exterior needs to be cleaned even more frequently *than a typical car because the sensors must remain free of obstructions. Dirt, dead bugs, bird droppings or water spots can impact the vehicle's ability to drive safely.
> 
> Avis, which has years of experience managing large fleets of rental cars, has been tasked with cleaning and refueling the self-driving van fleet of Waymo, the self-driving arm of Google's parent company. Avis modified three of its branches in the Phoenix area to tend to the Chrysler Pacifica vans.
> 
> "There are special processes that definitely require* a lot more care and focus*, and you have to clean [the vans] quite often," Avis chief innovation officer Arthur Orduña told CNN. "We give them the premium level of service that I don't think any vehicle globally is getting."
> 
> Orduña wouldn't reveal exactly how they're washing the vehicles. But other self-driving car companies such as Toyota, Aptiv, Drive.AI and Uber described to CNN that they use microfiber cloths along with rubbing alcohol, water or glass cleaner for manual cleanings.
> 
> For snowy and icy conditions, Uber has a worker apply windshield washer fluid with a squirt bottle to its camera lenses. A puff of air is then used to remove whatever residue remains.
> 
> Toyota primarily uses rubbing alcohol on a cloth to clean camera lenses, but sometimes turns to cleaning wipes. But May Mobility, a self-driving startup based in Ann Arbor, Mich., relies on a cloth and water for the entire vehicle.
> 
> Meanwhile, some companies, such as Cruise, the self-driving group of General Motors (GM), are building sensor cleaning equipment into their vehicles. This should alleviate some need for manual cleaning.
> 
> Startup Seeva is developing similar technology to clean autonomous vehicles' sensors. Seeva already offers a system that heats washer fluid to as hot as 160 degrees, and sprays it on surfaces to clean bugs, dirt or ice.
> 
> But because autonomous vehicles can have dozens of sensors, Seeva CEO Diane Lansinger doesn't imagine products like this will be able to clean every camera, radar or LIDAR, a laser sensor that most experts see as essential for self-driving vehicles.
> 
> "For self-driving technology to scale, we can't have engineers paid $150,000 a year, running around the vehicles and wiping them down," Lansinger said. *"It's going to be quite awhile before we get away from the manual care.*"
> 
> http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/22/technology/self-driving-car-wash/index.html


FACT Doesn't appear that the self driving car was at fault. If you're driving down the street, and somebody jumps in front of you, are you at fault? If not, why should a self driving car be at fault? user was not in a cross walk. Not all accidents can be avoided if the pedestrian is that negligent, whether a human or computer is driving the car.

FACT Self-driving cars are not super heros

FACT And why over 4000 pedestrian dies per year from vehicle contact


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## RamzFanz

Gung-Ho said:


> "$200 and 2 days." That statement is so obtuse and preposterous it qualifies you to be considered clinically insane.
> 
> Just like your buddy you've clearly never lived or experienced a wintery climate and have no idea the challenges they create. I can't explain all the cause and effects of black ice without writing a mini novel.
> 
> Good day and I hope they serve you jello for dessert today.


6 years in Rochester NY. Some I lived right on Lake Ontario.

What does this have to do with simple sensor cleaning systems?

You have heard of windshield wipers? Deicer? Heat? Air pressure?

Again, cars already sense slippage and keep humans from crashing. It's already superior. A SDC could easily predict, sense, and react faster than a human. And then all cars in the fleet would know instantly. It's vastly superior.

This is child's play.


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## Gung-Ho

RamzFanz said:


> 6 years in Rochester NY. Some I lived right on Lake Ontario.
> 
> What does this have to do with simple sensor cleaning systems?
> 
> You have heard of windshield wipers? Deicer? Heat? Air pressure?
> 
> Again, cars already sense slippage and keep humans from crashing. It's already superior. A SDC could easily predict, sense, and react faster than a human. And then all cars in the fleet would know instantly. It's vastly superior.
> 
> This is child's play.


6 years in Rochester?

How old were you and were you driving at the time.

"SIMPLE" sensor cleaning system.

There will be nothing "simple" about them. simple wouldn't work.

Have you ever heard of windshield wipers...etc?

sdc would really on eyes/sensors all around the vehicle not just the windshield.

Cars already sense slippage and are superior!?? And prevent accidents.

Really? Then I guess during those snowy events when 10 cars are off the road in a ditch they didn't slide there they drove there on purpose.

An sdc could EASILY predict...etc.

How? In the aforementioned black ice scenario. Black ice is random. You could be drive on miles of dry road then hit one shady spot thats a sheet of ice. It can be a sunny day where earlier snow melt dampens the road then refreezes.

The first sdc that encounters it will be off the road in a ditch it will only be communicating if it still has any life to it.

You are hopelessly over enthusiastic. You talk about these things like they've been ready for prime time for 10 years and all the testing they are doing now is merely a formality. Reality is decades away from this fantasy world you've concocted. In 5 years you MIGHT see some of these ( totally human driverless) of closed road surfaces like college campuses or gated communities...and thats the best case scenario. Your dream of fleets of sdc taxi fleets being prime time everywhere all the time...DECADES AWAY.


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