# Uber Time Out Strategy



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

With its new time out policy of putting drivers on the naughty step for not accepting pings, Uber shows that it favors the stick approach with drivers instead of the carrot.

At the same time, Uber claims that we drivers are actually its customers. I wonder, if Uber went into the restaurant business, whether it would use the same approach. The customer, in theory, would have free choice of the items offered by the restaurant and could reject menu items that he /she did not want.

In reality though, the waiter would offer some dishes which would be more costly and less desirable. If the waiter cannot shift these less desirable dishes it will mean lost revenue for the restaurant and lower efficiency. So he offers them to his customers. If they refuse them, he says, "You have refused two of the dishes I have offered. I take this to mean that you are not hungry. You will now be removed from the restaurant and denied reentry for 30 minutes. At the end of that time, if you change your mind and decide that you do indeed want to eat, you may come back inside. Come on, stand up; let's go; the door's that way."

I can't really see that this is an optimal customer retention strategy. Maybe an Uber cheerleader / evangelist (glados, Chef Aarron etc) could explain why this is a good strategy for the company?


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

elelegido said:


> With its new time out policy of putting drivers on the naughty step for not accepting pings, Uber shows that it favors the stick approach with drivers instead of the carrot.
> 
> At the same time, Uber claims that we drivers are actually its customers. I wonder, if Uber went into the restaurant business, whether it would use the same approach. The customer, in theory, would have free choice of the items offered by the restaurant and could reject menu items that he /she did not want.
> 
> ...


Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.

How is this not obvious?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


A "negative incentive"  LMAO

Man, you are funny; I knew you'd post something highly amusing - thanks.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

elelegido said:


> A "negative incentive"  LMAO
> 
> Man, you are funny; I knew you'd post something highly amusing - thanks.


Really!? You've never heard the term negative incentive? It means incentivizing a good behavior by taking something else good away if it isn't performed. As opposed to a deterrent which causes people not to perform bad behavior because of the perceived consequences or punishment which directly causes something unpleasant to happen when bad behavior is performed.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> Really!? You've never heard the term negative incentive? It means incentivizing a good behavior by taking something else good away if it isn't performed. As opposed to a deterrent which causes people not to perform bad behavior because of the perceived consequences or punishment which directly causes something unpleasant to happen when bad behavior is performed.


LOL, no, I'd never heard that before. It's not a piece of jargon I would ever personally use; I prefer to just call something what it actually is - in this case an intended punishment. It could also be described as blackmail - do what I want or I'll do this thing which I think is negative to you. There are a few possible descriptors. But "negative incentive"? No, that's just silly.

Are timeouts a punishment though, as opposed to just intended punishment? No; it just means they temporarily lose drivers to competing services. No net loss to me; only to themselves.


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


It is clear that you have NO idea on how "negative incentives" are directed to motivate people to perform.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> It is clear that you have NO idea on how "negative incentives" are directed to motivate people to perform.


Based on his posts he's definitely a follower who takes things as presented to him as opposed to someone who thinks for and analyzes things for himself and then draws his own conclusions.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> It is clear that you have NO idea on how "negative incentives" are directed to motivate people to perform.


I'm generally one of the few around here that says don't expect Uber to hold your hand, just shut up and work and earn your pay?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


.......and if the driver travels a long distacne which requires time, and, the people are not there when he gets there, or the people cancel before he gets there (within five minutes), the trip does not happen, anyhow and Uber _*don't get nothin'.*_ Even if the user does not cancel within the five minutes, all that he need do is send a whining e-mail to Uber and it will refund his cancellation fee and might even take it out of the driver's hide.
*
*
How is _*THAT*_ not obvious?



Chef Aarron said:


> Really!? You've never heard the term negative incentive? It means incentivizing a good behavior by taking something else good away if it isn't performed. As opposed to a deterrent which causes people not to perform bad behavior because of the perceived consequences or punishment which directly causes something unpleasant to happen when bad behavior is performed.


........so being sent to stand in the virtual corner is not something unpleasant? A former President of my Alma Mater once declared Sociology and Psychology to be "gobbledygook". I had a History Perfesser once proclaim that Psychology and Sociology were "that which is common sense made difficult". I see from where they were coming.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> .......and if the driver travels a long distacne which requires time, and, the people are not there when he gets there, or the people cancel before he gets there (within five minutes), the trip does not happen, anyhow and Uber _*don't get nothin'.*_ Even if the user does not cancel within the five minutes, all that he need do is send a whining e-mail to Uber and it will refund his cancellation fee and might even take it out of the driver's hide.
> *
> *
> How is _*THAT*_ not obvious?
> ...


THAT is not obvious because of the simple fact that odds favor the opposite scenario. I swear, the tin foil hats around here! I mean, really, if that's your whole logic, why accept any trips at all. Just stay home and avoid cancellations altogether.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> THAT is not obvious because of the simple fact that odds favor the opposite scenario.
> 
> I swear, the tin foil hats around here!


Marry, Sirrah, you have it backwards. The odds favour the very scenario that I described. _*Ain't no tin foil hats about it, Jack,*_ I have seen and experienced it just the way that I described it for years. It usually plays out the way that I have described it. I have been in this business for quite some time. I type from experience, something for which there is no substitute in this business.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

A few weeks ago I got a ping from an Uber pax very early in the morning. I ignored it as the pax was a 4.5, which made him ineligible for a ride from me. There were few drivers online and his ping must have done the rounds and got rejected by all of them because it came back to me a couple of minutes later. I rejected it again and went offline. A few minutes later Lyft pinged and I did not notice that it was the same pax. On Lyft he was a 5.0.

When I got to the pickup I discovered it was the same guy. "Man!", he said, "I couldn't get a ride on Uber. It took ages and then when I got a ride, the driver phoned me saying he had a flat tire and told me to cancel. I had to try Lyft instead."

This guy's Uber ride requests failed not because of time outs, but because of his perceived previous bad behavior in Ubers. However, it illustrates that Uber should not be arrogant enough to believe that it is the only option available to drivers, or pax for that matter. In the above example, if Uber had given 30 minute timeouts to all of the drivers in the area who rejected this low quality rider, all they would achieve would be to gift pax over to Lyft.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Marry, Sirrah, you have it backwards. The odds favour the very scenario that I described. _*Ain't no tin foil hats about it, Jack,*_ I have seen and experienced it just the way that I described it for years. It usually plays out the way that I have described it. I have been in this business for quite some time. I type from experience, something for which there is no substitute in this business.


That's funny. I'll accept just about any ping - 90% acceptance rate is easy - and when I ran 100 trips last week, I had maybe 5 or 6 cancels. All of those were nearby pings at the beaches. Not one was a faraway ping.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

elelegido said:


> A few weeks ago I got a ping from an Uber pax very early in the morning. I ignored it as the pax was a 4.5, which made him ineligible for a ride from me. There were few drivers online and his ping must have done the rounds and got rejected by all of them because it came back to me a couple of minutes later. I rejected it again and went offline. A few minutes later Lyft pinged and I did not notice that it was the same pax. On Lyft he was a 5.0.
> 
> When I got to the pickup I discovered it was the same guy. "Man!", he said, "I couldn't get a ride on Uber. It took ages and then when I got a ride, the driver phoned me saying he had a flat tire and told me to cancel. I had to try Lyft instead."
> 
> This guy's Uber ride happened not because of time outs, but because of his previous bad behavior in previous Ubers. However, it illustrates that Uber should not be arrogant enough to believe that it is the only option available to drivers, or pax for that matter. In the above example, if Uber had given 30 minute timeouts to all of the drivers in the area who rejected this low quality rider, all they would achieve would be to gift pax over to Lyft.


Yeah, he couldn't have just had two rides, a 4 and a 5. The 4 probably came because the trip wasn't long enough for some Uber with an attitude or the driver didn't earn a tip.

So, tell me, did the guy behave badly for you? More importantly, how much would it have paid to just take the trip when you first got it?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> So, tell me, did the guy behave badly for you?


The "should you use the rating system as a guide to whether or not to pick up pax" question has already been done to death on here. The relevance of this anecdote is not the rating system question, but the fact that drivers and pax will still find each other and make arrangements via a competing service, excluding Uber from the transaction, when Uber's labor pool is reduced.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

elelegido said:


> The "should you use the rating system as a guide to whether or not to pick up pax" question has already been done to death on here. The relevance of this anecdote is not the rating system question, but the fact that drivers and pax will still find each other and make arrangements via a competing service, excluding Uber from the transaction, when Uber's labor pool is reduced.


Yeah, but you reduced the labor pool by relying on the useless rating system, not Uber. So basically your bashing Uber's approach to getting what they want from drivers at least partly on the basis of the effects of reducing the labor pool, but you've done the exact same thing and you'll fight to the death to defend your actions. Hypocrite much?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> I'll accept just about any ping - 90% acceptance rate is easy - and when I ran 100 trips last week, I had maybe 5 or 6 cancels. All of those were nearby pings at the beaches. Not one was a faraway ping.


How many far away pings did you accept? Any?

Maybe they wait in Jacksonville, but they do not wait, here. Uber users are more impatient than are taxi users. If the ride does not show up within three minutes of their summoning it, they cancel or just leave without bothering to cancel.

When I am driving the cab, I would estimate that fifteen per-cent of my street hails are people who summoned some level of Uber (we have several levels here, I do not know how many you have in Jacksonville).


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> How many far away pings did you accept? Any?
> 
> Maybe they wait in Jacksonville, but they do not wait, here. Uber users are more impatient than are taxi users. If the ride does not show up within three minutes of their summoning it, they cancel or just leave without bothering to cancel.
> 
> When I am driving the cab, I would estimate that fifteen per-cent of my street hails are people who summoned some level of Uber (we have several levels here, I do not know how many you have in Jacksonville).


I'd say, off the top of my head, if you define faraway as 15 minutes, probably around 8-10. Seems some around here define far away as the rider isn't already sitting in the car when they request, in which case it's 100.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> I'd say, off the top of my head, if you define faraway as 15 minutes, probably around 8-10. Seems some around here define far away as the rider isn't already sitting in the car when they request, in which case it's 100.


That might work in Jacksonville, but it will not work here. In the Big City, "far away" is anything more than six minutes. They will not wait longer than that, here, for the most part. The six minutes applies in certain close-in suburbs, as well.

If you get into the residential areas of some of the suburbs, you can chase something that is fifteeen minutes and it often still is there. The question then becomes "will it be worth it?". If you are in a far-out suburb or an exurb, really, you have nothing better to do, so you might as well try it, at least. If you are in a close-in suburb or in the Big City itself, it makes no sense to chase those trips. Odds are that they will not be there or will cancel just as you are turning the corner. If there is one thing that I hate in this business it is a cancel-upon-arrival.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> So basically your bashing Uber's approach to getting what they want from drivers at least partly on the basis of the effects of reducing the labor pool


No. Once again you demonstrate failure to grasp the point being made. I am not saying that Uber is trying to get what it wants by reducing its labor pool. Rather, Uber is trying to get what it wants by threatening and trying to punish its own drivers.

Yes, Uber giving me timeouts will result in lower Uber earnings for me. But I am not complaining about them doing this. I simply switch over to Lyft. My overall earnings may or may not be slightly lower overall because of it, but so be it. Whatever small difference in overall earnings may result from this, it is not large enough to force me into being bossed around by Uber. I can also choose to remove myself from the Uber labor pool for any other reason I choose. Maybe I don't like the pickup location, or the rider's rating, or maybe I want to stop for a coffee. Again, this is my choice and will also result in lower Uber earnings. No complaints; no inconsistency in what I say; no hypocrisy.

No, the point I was making was that, in my case, Uber's naughty step has no deterrent effect whatsoever. Instead, it results in diverting part of its labor pool to Lyft, for which I am sure they are very grateful and most likely laughing their butts off at Uber.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Uber is so bad. As "independent contractors", as they call us, we should be allowed to decide whether we want to pick up any pax, whether they are close or far. In fact, we should be able to decide the limit at which we are able to drive to pick up a pax. There should be a setting in the app. That would happen, if we were "independent contractors". But we are not "independent contractors", we are employees and that's the relationship they are creating when they exert complete and total control over our alleged "contract" with them. But it's not a contract, it's completely one-sided, hence we are employees.

This is just one example. We could go on and on and on and on about all the ridiculous things that Uber does just to spite us because Travis, for some reason, hates drivers so much.

Just remember, it will all change when we win the lawsuit. As well as for all our reimbursements for being misclassified we will also be able to unionize and that is where the money and benefits will be.

www.uberlawsuit.com


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Uber is so bad. As "independent contractors", as they call us, we should be allowed to decide whether we want to pick up any pax, whether they are close or far. In fact, we should be able to decide the limit at which we are able to drive to pick up a pax. There should be a setting in the app. That would happen, if we were "independent contractors". But we are not "independent contractors", we are employees and that's the relationship they are creating when they exert complete and total control over our alleged "contract" with them. But it's not a contract, it's completely one-sided, hence we are employees.
> 
> This is just one example. We could go on and on and on and on about all the ridiculous things that Uber does just to spite us because Travis, for some reason, hates drivers so much.
> 
> ...


You work whatever hours you want. You work as many or as few hours as you want. You choose your vehicle, your maintenance plan and provider. You choose where you work. And on and on and on. You are an independent contractor.

A business can specify certain behaviors that are expected from a contractor and penalize a contractor when they don't do those behaviors.

Look at the financial industry, which I was in previously. Brokers are all independent contactors, but there is a tremendous amount of regulation and a great deal of control by firms over what they can and can't do and the products they can and can't sell. Yet you don't hear brokers complaining that they're employees because they actually understand what being a contractor means.

Be careful what you wish for. You get that employee status you're looking for and Uber will be able to, and I bet they will, tell you where and when you can work, fire you for things that now just have penalties like a time out, and control every aspect of your employment. Have fun trying to make money when Uber tells you you have to work from 9am to 5pm on the northwest side!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Uber is so bad. As "independent contractors", as they call us, we should be allowed to decide whether we want to pick up any pax, whether they are close or far. In fact, we should be able to decide the limit at which we are able to drive to pick up a pax. There should be a setting in the app. That would happen, if we were "independent contractors". But we are not "independent contractors", we are employees and that's the relationship they are creating when they exert complete and total control over our alleged "contract" with them. But it's not a contract, it's completely one-sided, hence we are employees.
> 
> This is just one example. We could go on and on and on and on about all the ridiculous things that Uber does just to spite us because Travis, for some reason, hates drivers so much.
> 
> ...


Incidentally, if you truly think the contract is one sided, it doesn't make you an employee, it makes you a sucker for agreeing to it. And if you agreed to it and now want to demand a different treatment, it masks you a person with no integrity who doesn't honor your commitments.


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## Wdsniderman (Jan 2, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> That's funny. I'll accept just about any ping - 90% acceptance rate is easy - and when I ran 100 trips last week, I had maybe 5 or 6 cancels. All of those were nearby pings at the beaches. Not one was a faraway ping.


I have pings every weekend where I arrive at the pickup and can't find the rider. They don't respond to msgs or answer calls. Sometimes, they finally respond with "dude, I got another ride". In that case, I leave the ping active for the five minutes and cancel with "no show". I can only hope this affects the rider's ratings as this practice is completely inconsiderate of the driver.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Wdsniderman said:


> I have pings every weekend where I arrive at the pickup and can't find the rider. They don't respond to msgs or answer calls. Sometimes, they finally respond with "dude, I got another ride". In that case, I leave the ping active for the five minutes and cancel with "no show". I can only hope this affects the rider's ratings as this practice is completely inconsiderate of the driver.


I get those, too, but the point I was making wad it is not so frequent as to merit any big change in strategy, nor is it more likely with a faraway ping.


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## Wdsniderman (Jan 2, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> I get those, too, but the point I was making wad it is not so frequent as to merit any big change in strategy, nor is it more likely with a faraway ping.


I understand. I was just adding in my two cents worth. I think I am ranting about my experiences with driving the drunk crowd after 10:00pm. Also, Uber is new in my city. Seems like the rider's and drivers alike are in a learning mode.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Wdsniderman said:


> I understand. I was just adding in my two cents worth. I think I am ranting about my experiences with driving the drunk crowd after 10:00pm. Also, Uber is new in my city. Seems like the rider's and drivers alike are in a learning mode.


Well, good luck! Drunks are what they are. Can't let it bother you because the reality is that they are a big part of the income you'll earn. There are only two things I ever let cause me any annoyance - messing up my car and being violent. Everything else, just let it roll off your back or you'll end up being a bitter jerk like most of the people on here!

As a learning experience, don't pay an ounce of attention to about 90% of what's on this forum. Seems it is a place for drivers who can't cut it because they don't know what they're doing to complain because it is easier to blame Uber and riders than it is to actually hone their strategies. And it's a lot of cab drivers here who are just trying to discourage because they want Uber gone and it is in their self interest to paint an ugly picture.

It's really pretty simple - work hard, treat your riders with respect because that's really where your pay comes from, manage expenses aggressively, track your stats to find out what works and what doesn't. It's not rocket science to make a real profit even though people around here seem to think so.

Funny how so much of the strategies presented are all about how not to work! I'm all for working smarter not harder, but coming up with all sorts of rationale for not running trips is not that!

You also see a lot of people talk about how the driver ratings are meaningless and unfair, but then in the same breath talk about how they ignore pings based on ratings. Just one example of many of the hypocrisy and short sightedness rampant here!

Again, good luck!


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

OP, the automatic time out may not have any effect on you but that doesn't mean it has no effect on everyone. Plenty of drivers drive exclusively Uber.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


I would say ACCEPTING them is "mindless behavior".


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


That's not a negative incentive, that's a punishment. Go reread your psychology books.


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## Optimus Uber (Oct 7, 2014)

glados said:


> OP, the automatic time out may not have any effect on you but that doesn't mean it has no effect on everyone. Plenty of drivers drive exclusively Uber.


The childish technique of giving an adult a timeout will not play well with anyone. Uber will lose more drivers for the way they disrespect adults.

It's uber thinking they're being funny and cute. I have no issue turning my app off when the surge is 4x and higher so there are no cars for uber passengers.

The more negative uber can make the experience for the driver, the more negative the driver can make the experience for the passenger.

"Do unto others as you would have them do to you."

Do you really think treating adult drivers like children will pan out well for uber? When a passenger can't even get a car to pick them up paying a premium of 4x it speaks volumes of what a shit company uber is.

Screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me.

Guess what, tomorrow is Monday morning. We'll see who needs me active tomorrow morning more, me or uber.

Sooner than later uber will lose clientele. For two reason. The first is the surge. People would rather pay more and desensitize the surge so they can get a car whenever they need one. The second is the fact that there currently aren't enough cars to accommodate demand.

Watch tomorrow mornings cluster fudgsicle. It's going to be ugly when people can't get to their Monday morning destinations. And who is going to lose? I have other means of support. I don't need to be treated like a child. I have forgotten more in life than Travis will ever know.

Uber is run by morons. The amateur and childish techniques used to attempt to control contractors is beyond ignorant. One big failed attempt at playing the psyche game.

Watch tomorrow, watch how much revenue falls off because there aren't enough cars. It's going to be ugly from 7:30 - 8:45 am.

You think the issue is the drivers cancelling. The real issue is you don't have the supply for the demand.


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## Harleyfxdx1 (Oct 21, 2015)

I drive XL & Select in the northern burbs of Atlanta. I do get my fare share of airport runs that net me $65 - $105 depending on location and traffic. Many of my pings are over 15 minutes away (from my lazy-boy chair), as I was watching TV Today I got an XL request 25 minutes away. I figured if it was an airport run it might be worth it. I called the pax, learned that it was a short run from his house, told home it was too far to pick him up. He agreed and cancelled before his 6 minutes was up. Worked out for all parties involved.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

You're analogy failed right off the bat, because if Uber were a restaurant, we would not be the diners, we'd be the hired help. And a driver refusing pings would be comparable to a waiter refusing to service tables because he sized up the patrons and didn't think the tips would be worth it. After refusing a couple tables, the waiter would not be put in time out. He'd be fired.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Harleyfxdx1 said:


> I drive XL & Select in the northern burbs of Atlanta. I do get my fare share of airport runs that net me $65 - $105 depending on location and traffic. Many of my pings are over 15 minutes away (from my lazy-boy chair), as I was watching TV Today I got an XL request 25 minutes away. I figured if it was an airport run it might be worth it. I called the pax, learned that it was a short run from his house, told home it was too far to pick him up. He agreed and cancelled before his 6 minutes was up. *Worked out for all parties involved.*


It may have "worked out." But that's a pretty crappy experience for the rider. At least it would be for me.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Uber is so bad. As "independent contractors", as they call us, we should be allowed to decide whether we want to pick up any pax, whether they are close or far.


Another poster who looks at the term "independent contractor" and only sees the word "independent."


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Coachman said:


> You're analogy failed right off the bat, because if Uber were a restaurant, we would not be the diners, we'd be the hired help. And a driver refusing pings would be comparable to a waiter refusing to service tables because he sized up the patrons and didn't think the tips would be worth it. After refusing a couple tables, the waiter would not be put in time out. He'd be fired.


Wouldn't it be great if Uber just offered the option of being an employee with one set of rules where Uber controlled everything or an independent contractor leaving things as they are? Kind of how FedEx has employee drivers and independent contractor owner operator drivers. The biggest fools on this board would jump at being employees, get fired a week later, and us independent contractors would make a bunch more money with fewer drivers on the road! LOL!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Coachman said:


> It may have "worked out." But that's a pretty crappy experience for the rider. At least it would be for me.


Problem is more and more drivers, especially those on here, have ceased to care about the rider experience because they are so fed up with Uber (their own failure to understand their contract really) that they've become so short sighted as to think that creating a crappy rider experience somehow sticks to Uber and will force Uber to change for them. I say fire every damn one of them!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Another poster who looks at the term "independent contractor" and only sees the word "independent."


Exactly! Well phrased.


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## GILD (Feb 8, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> You work whatever hours you want. You work as many or as few hours as you want. You choose your vehicle, your maintenance plan and provider. You choose where you work. And on and on and on. You are an independent contractor.
> 
> A business can specify certain behaviors that are expected from a contractor and penalize a contractor when they don't do those behaviors.
> 
> ...


Well, I guess they will pay for the cars gas too and repairs and insurance? so until that happens, They are not an employer.
I dont except pings farther away than 7 min.
If its pool or anything you dont like, 
tell pax 
Your car may be full when you arrive. 
Your previous drive may be a pool.
Your eta may be 90 min later. 
You may cancel Pax? 
You have around 1 minute to cancel without a cancelation fee.

anything of that nature. 
heck, call pax. say your stuck in traffic, Ill cancel? theyll be like ok. hang up. even if they say no. hang up.
cancel - rider request.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Or


GILD said:


> Well, I guess they will pay for the cars gas too and repairs and insurance? so until that happens, They are not an employer.
> I dont except pings farther away than 7 min.
> If its pool or anything you dont like,
> tell pax
> ...


Or, and I know this is anathema to many here, show some integrity and honesty and if you accept the trip, run the damn trip and stop pissing riders off!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

GILD said:


> Well, I guess they will pay for the cars gas too and repairs and insurance? so until that happens, They are not an employer.


And you'll get paid hourly in an amount that is probably in line with the minimum guarantees for morning rush hour that a trained chimp can beat of you give him half a banana. But actually it will be less than that because all of those other expenses will need to be covered by Uber, so it will probably be in line with the amount of effort and skill needed to drive from point A to point B, i.e. minimum wage. Which I guess will be a step up for so many of the tools around here that spend more energy rationalizing all the reasons to not take trips than they do on driving.


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## uberguuber (Feb 23, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


ummm also. When a large surge zone begins to die down, the riders who tapped the "Notify me when the surge ends" start requesting. However the surge still going on, it would be mindless behavior to accept a trip when you could get a 2.1 surge trip. But the riders would complain nobody it picking them up when they see 4 cars on the app. SO Uber logs you out so your car will disappear from the app. Or its as simple as you don't want to drive 12 minutes to Walwart to help load someone groceries for a $2.87 fare. Especially since they took the bus to get there...


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## GILD (Feb 8, 2016)

Nope, riders can go use Lyft. or call a cab, if they dont like uber they should quit using it.
drivers Will not drive 10 min to a pax to get $2.20. some cars that will cost them in gas alone, half that fare!
Integrity and honesty starts from the top of the corporation down. drivers have same amount of integrity and honesty as the uber master has.
Pax did not make a deal with driver, pax made a deal with uber. uber can work out the problems. Drivers are no more responsible to got get a Pax than a Pax is to not cancel after creating the ride Ping. Riders can start tipping as they would a taxi, uber can quit stripping 50% of the fare too.
Pax can use lyft. Driver can get new job if he doesnt like $4 an hour, and children should work to put food on tables at home.
Overtime and regulation and benefits do not apply to uber drivers, so why do we care if pax has to wait longer for another driver, or bus?
answer is, we should not. We are not bound, as we are not employees. Pax can figure something out.
If its Pool, uber says on ping they are all 1 min away? NOPE 14 min out. deceitful? honest? integrity? I think not.
whys uber hide the destination, it is known. integrity? honesty? They are keeping driver from making informed decision on value of the pickup. why? because NO ONE is driving 10 min to wait 5 more min to drive 3 min to drop off to make $2 for 20 min of their time MINUS gas and repair.
Uber gets what it sows. Reap away!


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## uberguuber (Feb 23, 2015)

AND only do surge rides !!!


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## GILD (Feb 8, 2016)

Uber should timeout all drivers, so they can drive for lyft more. that will teach them drivers. go get that lyft ride with tip. 
all drivers should be on timeout, permanent time out to go drive lyft. 
the day is coming there will be 5 ride shares in one city. And there will be one app, that ties all of them together for pax.
soon, give it a month. Uber will be at bottom of list, pick up uber ping, make $1. pickup lyft ping make $1 plus 25% chance of $1 to $5 tip. 
take the drive for lyft everytime. honesty still matters to drivers. uber ping needs to be 2x surge to compete


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> You work whatever hours you want. You work as many or as few hours as you want. You choose your vehicle, your maintenance plan and provider. You choose where you work. And on and on and on. You are an independent contractor.


I used to delivery drive for a pizza place. I worked whichever hours I wanted. I chose my vehicle. I chose my maintenance plan and provider. I chose where I wanted to work. And so on and so on. I was an employee.

Only Uber shills that post here or taxi cab drivers are going to try to argue the opposite.

And, yes, I can't wait til we win the lawsuit and get to be classified as employees so we can unionize. www.uberlawsuit.com

Your buddies there at Uber are going to be hating life when they get hit with all the penalties for the misclassification.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Another poster who looks at the term "independent contractor" and only sees the word "independent."


I don't think you saw the rest of my post(s) where I made it clear we were not independent contractors.


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> You work whatever hours you want. You work as many or as few hours as you want. You choose your vehicle, your maintenance plan and provider. You choose where you work. And on and on and on. You are an independent contractor.
> 
> A business can specify certain behaviors that are expected from a contractor and penalize a contractor when they don't do those behaviors.


I have selected your post for the reply, but this applies to Coachman too.
Because some of us disagree with Uber ways of time-out & your opinions & thinking, you have NO right to question our intelligence.
Definition of word *'Independent' **free from outside control; not depending on another's authority*.
Get facts & research before commenting. Corporations don't care about peoples pockets or sorrows but the pockets of the RICH.
(You were in the Financial industry & you should be able to relate it better).

Yes. I am from Canada & drive for UBER. In Toronto & Quebec, we get pings to pick up customers 15 to 25 minutes away for a 2min destination ride.
(1) After accepting the ping which is approx 15 to 20 kms away, I should Not get paid for all the DEAD Miles.
(2) No cancellation fee. Customers know the app better

In short everything with UBER is algorithm thinking & with a technology app, it knows from how far I am coming to pick-up a customer & also the destination the customer will be going to. So, yours & Coachman reasoning & thinking is as an 'Independent Contractor' I should take a hit & loss on my earnings & not be compensated.

Get an Independent Contractor to renovate your Bathroom & mention will give you faucet & shower head. Complete the bathroom & it should look new as, You are an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Slavic Riga said:


> I have selected your post for the reply, but this applies to Coachman too.
> Because some of us disagree with Uber ways of time-out & your opinions & thinking, you have NO right to question our intelligence.
> Definition of word *'Independent' **free from outside control; not depending on another's authority*.
> Get facts & research before commenting. Corporations don't care about peoples pockets or sorrows but the pockets of the RICH.
> ...


Now go look up contractor. By your understanding of an independent contractor, you'd hire the guy to do your faucet and shower head and have no problem if he came in and redid all your tile. After all, he's independent, right!?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Slavic Riga said:


> Definition of word *'Independent' **free from outside control; not depending on another's authority*.


You see you just proved my point about posters who look at the term "independent contractor" and all they see is the "independent."


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Coachman said:


> You see you just proved my point about posters who look at the term "independent contractor" and all they see is the "independent."


You have selected reading.


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Now go look up contractor. By your understanding of an independent contractor, you'd hire the guy to do your faucet and shower head and have no problem if he came in and redid all your tile. After all, he's independent, right!?


That's how you are wanting us Independent Contractors to interpret working for Uber & their pings which are far away. *Good you got my message*


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Slavic Riga said:


> You have selected reading capabilities.


No. You took the term "independent contractor" then gave me the definition of the word "independent." You simply ignored the word "contractor." Because the contract lays out the specific expectations for drivers in their performance of the job. And accepting pings is one of those expectations.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> You've made it clear you neither understand what and independent contractor is nor do you have the maturity to be one.


I know exactly what an independent contractor is and everything about our job says we are not.

There are a million cases where even uninsurance labor commisioners state we are employees. The only way you don't think we are employees is if you are an uber shill or are a taxi driver.

It will be proven when we win our lawsuit.

www.uberlawsuit.com


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Coachman said:


> No. You took the term "independent contractor" then gave me the definition of the word "independent." You simply ignored the word "contractor." Because the contract lays out the specific expectations for drivers in their performance of the job. And accepting pings is one of those expectations.


Agreed
Read the agreement IC's "will receive compensation adequately". "Setting Fares in good faith". "Will provide insurance" (Until today no insurance certificate provided to any regulatory body). Parameters set for commission & service charge, no parameters for distance to pick-up fares.
As, an IC will refuse pings that are not profitable. That's my right. Cannot be forced.
So, you believe in a one-sided contract. Contract has to be fulfilled by both parties, not only one party. BRAVO. Shows how deep you understand things.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Slavic Riga said:


> BRAVO. Shows how deep you understand things.


You came into the thread a while ago making a big hullabaloo about people questioning others' intelligence. Remember?


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## GILD (Feb 8, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Your response proves you do not know what integrity is and possess none.


*Simple Definition of integrity*
: the quality of being honest and fair

so where is the dishonesty? or unfairness?

please pick apart this post and tell me what is not 100% honest. what is not 100% fair.

Nope, riders can go use Lyft. or call a cab, if they dont like uber they should quit using it. (accurate)
drivers Will not drive 10 min to a pax to get $2.20. some cars that will cost them in gas alone, half that fare! (accurate)
Integrity and honesty starts from the top of the corporation down. drivers have same amount of integrity and honesty as the uber master has. (accurate)
Pax did not make a deal with driver, pax made a deal with uber. (accurate)
uber can work out the problems. Drivers are no more responsible to got get a Pax than a Pax is to not cancel after creating the ride Ping. (accurate)
Riders can start tipping as they would a taxi, uber can quit stripping 50% of the fare too. (accurate)
Pax can use lyft. (accurate)
Driver can get new job if he doesnt like $4 an hour, and children should work to put food on tables at home. (accurate)
Overtime and regulation and benefits do not apply to uber drivers (accurate) , so why do we care if pax has to wait longer for another driver, or bus? (accurate)
answer is, we should not. (accurate)
We are not bound, as we are not employees. Pax can figure something out. (accurate)
If its Pool, uber says on ping they are all 1 min away? (accurate)
NOPE 14 min out. deceitful? honest? integrity? I think not. (accurate)
whys uber hide the destination, it is known. integrity? honesty? (accurate)
They are keeping driver from making informed decision on value of the pickup. why? (accurate)
because NO ONE is driving 10 min to wait 5 more min to drive 3 min to drop off to make $2 for 20 min of their time MINUS gas and repair. (accurate)
Uber gets what it sows. Reap away! (accurate)

You can pick up those pax that are a losing money drive for you, enjoy that. Most drivers will not.


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Coachman said:


> You came into the thread a while ago making a big hullabaloo about people questioning others' intelligence. Remember?


I am not making a hullabaloo & came in because there is a certain amount of bullying to IC's in order to accept certain people way of thinking.

One of your ex Presidents when impeached, said Is that seX? Does that construe as seX. Played with words & that is exactly happening on this thread.
Independent contractor, a natural person & want you to define Natural person. Babies now adults & Human being born through Artificial Insemination, Test tube babies & IVF. How will you classify them? Natural or unnatural. You want to play with words. Lets Begin.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Slavic Riga said:


> I am not making a hullabaloo & came in because there is a certain amount of bullying to IC's in order to accept certain people way of thinking.
> 
> One of your ex Presidents when impeached & said Is that seX? Does that construe as seX. Played with words & that is exactly happening on this thread.
> Independent contractor, a natural person & define Natural person. Artificial Insemination, Test tube babies & IVF. How will you classify these pregnancies? Natural or unnatural. You want to play with words. Lets Begin.


In your previous post you said you cannot be forced to accept pings you don't want. That's perfectly true.

And Uber has every right to deactivate you for any reason or no reason. It's in the contract.


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

GILD said:


> *Simple Definition of integrity*
> : the quality of being honest and fair
> 
> so where is the dishonesty? or unfairness?
> ...


Accurate on all points
& the most accurate


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Passenger/customer did not make a deal with driver, Customer/pax has a deal & agreement with UBER. The same way Driver's contract is with UBER & not with customer. Once ping is accepted, it becomes IC's responsibility. 
The PRO respondents forget the first page of the Agreement. UBER is not a transportation Co. but a technological Co. & only connects people to you the driver. So, from transportation point of view, me, *INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, natural person* can make a distinction & decision whether I should take the ping or not. This is now facts & reasoning.


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Coachman said:


> In your previous post you said you cannot be forced to accept pings you don't want. That's perfectly true.
> 
> And Uber has every right to deactivate you for any reason or no reason. It's in the contract.


TRUE. Agreed. Deactivation for Reason
Deactivation for No Reason Is known & construed as Bullying. USA has Bullying laws & smell another law-suit. Hence, the time-out.  Know your laws first.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Slavic Riga said:


> TRUE. Agreed. Deactivation for Reason
> Deactivation for No Reason Is known & construed as Bullying. USA has Bullying laws & smell another law-suit. Hence, the time-out.  Know your laws first.


Well if you're refusing pings or accepting pings then canceling, Uber has reason to deactivate you. So that's not bullying, by your own definition.


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Well if you're refusing pings or accepting pings then canceling, Uber has reason to deactivate you. So that's not bullying, by your own definition.


Manipulation of words & sentences. Nowhere did I mention refusing pings or accepting pings then canceling Read properly 'From transportation point of view, me, *INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, natural person* can make a distinction & decision whether I should take the ping or not." & deactivated for 'NO Reason" is bullying.

Like I mentioned before you have SELECTIVE reading capabilities, now you have proved to all you have LIMITED understanding capabilities too.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Slavic Riga said:


> Nowhere did I mention refusing pings or accepting pings then canceling.


It's implicit in the thread title.


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Coachman said:


> It's implicit in the thread title.


As per your LIMITED understanding.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Coachman said:


> You're analogy failed right off the bat, because if Uber were a restaurant, we would not be the diners, we'd be the hired help. And a driver refusing pings would be comparable to a waiter refusing to service tables because he sized up the patrons and didn't think the tips would be worth it. After refusing a couple tables, the waiter would not be put in time out. He'd be fired.


Your analogy fails, too. The bartenders and servers aren't paying all the bills to run the restaurant.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

GILD said:


> *Simple Definition of integrity*
> : the quality of being honest and fair
> 
> so where is the dishonesty? or unfairness?
> ...





Slavic Riga said:


> You have selected reading capabilities.


Wow! The dumb is strong in this one.


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## howo3579 (Dec 8, 2015)

Not sure what you guys are arguing about. The tactic obviously works because morons will then accept unprofitable pings to avoid timeouts. If there are less morons among us, Uber wouldn't have done this.


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## Tequila Jake (Jan 28, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> You work whatever hours you want. You work as many or as few hours as you want. You choose your vehicle, your maintenance plan and provider. You choose where you work. And on and on and on. You are an independent contractor.
> 
> A business can specify certain behaviors that are expected from a contractor and penalize a contractor when they don't do those behaviors.
> 
> ...


Also, when you're an employer, they can make it a requirement you are not permitted to work for any competition - so no Lyft, DoorDash, PostMates, Amazon, etc. I contract with 4 companies and Uber is the lowest paying per ride and so it has my lowest priority.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Wow! The dumb is strong in this one.


Your posts are by far the most condescending I have read on these forums.


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Problem is more and more drivers, especially those on here, have ceased to care about the rider experience because they are so fed up with Uber (their own failure to understand their contract really) that they've become so short sighted as to think that creating a crappy rider experience somehow sticks to Uber and will force Uber to change for them. I say fire every damn one of them!


Partially accurate. Agreed that many drivers don't care about the rider experience; however, I have read & understand my contract with Uber fully. That said, Uber is not upholding its obligations in the contract I have with them; however, it's far too expensive for me to address the breach in a manner that would get some relief ... so I put up with it, for the time being.


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Uber Kraus said:


> Your posts are by far the most condescending I have read on these forums.


 Agree with you. We should expect those type of posts from Shills & employees. No backbone. They are FOLLOWERS.


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

BTW - timeout in Austin & San Antonio is 120 minutes ... after 3 cancels or 3 rejects


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Ziggy said:


> BTW - timeout in Austin & San Antonio is 120 minutes ... after 3 cancels or 3 rejects


Are you at 20% commission? I wonder if the time out is shorter to the 25%ers..


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## Uberduberdoo (Oct 22, 2015)




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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Ziggy said:


> Partially accurate. Agreed that many drivers don't care about the rider experience; however, I have read & understand my contract with Uber fully. That said, Uber is not upholding its obligations in the contract I have with them; however, it's far too expensive for me to address the breach in a manner that would get some relief ... so I put up with it, for the time being.


In what way?


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> Your posts are by far the most condescending I have read on these forums.


You must not be reading much! LOL!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Slavic Riga said:


> Agree with you. We should expect those type of posts from Shills & employees. No backbone. They are FOLLOWERS.


Aaaah! I'm a shill and an employee because I have proven time and again that I make significant money driving Uber? I have no backbone because I understand what being an independent contractor means, understood from the word go that Uber has the pricing power by the terms of our contract, and when things change, instead of complaining and being antagonistic, I adjust my strategy accordingly to continue making money? So, because I continue to be successful because I adjust strategy to work in current circumstances instead of complaining about how the same old bad approaches don't work and how it's all Uber's fault, I'm the dumb one?

If some of you people on here put half as much effort into doing the right things to earn as you do complaining, we'd never hear from you again because you'd actually make money and wouldn't be so bitter and full of jealousy!


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> You must not be reading much! LOL!


I've been around here longer than you. LOL!!


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

"A "negative incentive"  LMAO

Man, you are funny; I knew you'd post something highly amusing - thanks."

Elelegido great post. I think Travis thinks he's amusing by using the "pavlovian' dog experiment on the drivers. The fact that the "randy shears gang keeps defending ubers action with point less comments like "nobody forced you to drivers" is laughable at this point. 

..Isn't Jacksonvilles rates for uberx .65cents/mile? I don't know how anyone could make money off that except maybe surges. Then there's Detroit. at 30cents/mile. I suppose you could make a little money if you drive 3mph and made sure you take a route that has lots of traffic lights. Since the waitfor minute is 30cents as well.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> I've been around here longer than you. LOL!!


Doesn't mean you pay attention. Most around here are so dedicated to grinding their axes that 99% of what they post is the same broken record no matter what the topic.

The sky is blue. Well, Travis hates you! Today is Monday. Well, no one can make money at $0.65 a mile!

Wah! Wah! Wah!


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## Lone-Wolf (Jan 13, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> I'm generally one of the few around here that says don't expect Uber to hold your hand, just shut up and work and earn your pay?


"Just shut up and work and earn your pay"

Yeah how dare people ask to be treated fairly and be paid a fair wage for their work. Don't complain or stand up for yourself, just run your car into the ground and leave yourself w/o a car or having to go into debt to buy a new one so Uber upper management can enrich themselves at your expense you pathetic serf. Just shut up and be taken advantage of you ungrateful slave. Man the nerve of some people.


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## GILD (Feb 8, 2016)

too bad children cant drive cars. Uber could pay them even less cause they are kids. Its good for america.

YOU most likely will not make a wage above minimum driving uber! That is for sure.
Im not saying you cant, but you most likely will not. 
You can work more hours. you can try to get surges.
You can keep driving more, but that does NOT ensure more money. 
more miles on YOUR personal car is not more money in YOUR pocket.
more money per fare is more money in your pocket. 
more fares is more money in your pocket. 
more miles driven is money out of your pocket. 52 cents a mile more gone.


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## Uberelitescv1 (Jan 10, 2016)

Land of the free aye? But you cant choose what jobs you want to accept?


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Uberelitescv1 said:


> Land of the free aye? But you cant choose what jobs you want to accept?


You can. McDonalds is almost always hiring somewhere.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Doesn't mean you pay attention. Most around here are so dedicated to grinding their axes that 99% of what they post is the same broken record no matter what the topic.
> 
> The sky is blue. Well, Travis hates you! Today is Monday. Well, no one can make money at $0.65 a mile!
> 
> Wah! Wah! Wah!


Non sequitur. Unable to process response.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

GILD said:


> too bad children cant drive cars. Uber could pay them even less cause they are kids. Its good for america.
> 
> YOU most likely will not make a wage above minimum driving uber! That is for sure.


Actually, after expenses, I do about double minimum wage. See, I actually know what I'm doing.


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Wow! The dumb is strong in this one.





Chef Aarron said:


> Aaaah! I'm a shill and an employee because I have proven time and again that I make significant money driving Uber? I have no backbone because I understand what being an independent contractor means, understood from the word go that Uber has the pricing power by the terms of our contract, and when things change, instead of complaining and being antagonistic, I adjust my strategy accordingly to continue making money? So, because I continue to be successful because I adjust strategy to work in current circumstances instead of complaining about how the same old bad approaches don't work and how it's all Uber's fault, I'm the dumb one?
> 
> If some of you people on here put half as much effort into doing the right things to earn as you do complaining, we'd never hear from you again because you'd actually make money and wouldn't be so bitter and full of jealousy!


Everyone has strategies not only you. But, don't force your strategy on everyone, just like 'UBER". It may work for you not for everyone. Everyone is not the same. People are different & have different circumstances. Empathize, there is no empathy in any of your posts. Just what we as driver partners & Independent Contractors should do. On a lighter note define 'PARTNER'. That's what the app defines us right.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Lone-Wolf said:


> "Just shut up and work and earn your pay"
> 
> Yeah how dare people ask to be treated fairly and be paid a fair wage for their work. Don't complain or stand up for yourself, just run your car into the ground and leave yourself w/o a car or having to go into debt to buy a new one so Uber upper management can enrich themselves at your expense you pathetic serf. Just shut up and be taken advantage of you ungrateful slave. Man the nerve of some people.


I'm not driving my car into the ground with over 55% of my total miles driven being with a fare in the car. But when I do need a new car, I'll pay cash, thanks. Won't be that hard, really, because I actually manage my life like an adult and budget for that eventuality as part of my business planning for both of my endeavors.

And no, I'm not going to complain too much about stuff that I was smart enough to know were possibilities based on the terms of the contract I agreed to. Due diligence in the beginning makes that understanding pretty easy to come by. If it ever gets to a point that it no longer works for me, I'll quit and find something else to do. That's what adults do when they don't like their job.


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## Lone-Wolf (Jan 13, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Actually, after expenses, I do about double minimum wage. See, I actually know what I'm doing.


You keep mentioning how you made $900 something dollars recently while driving 50 hours as proof that Uber pay is good and that it's a good job. So how many miles did you drive that specific week and how many miles does your car have on it b/c those are the most important things.

How many miles drivers are putting on their cars to make money b/c driving full time you can easily put 50k miles per year or more on your car which means you will need a new car in 2-3 years if your car was used when you started driving or about 4 years max if your car was brand new.

Bottom line Uber is exploiting drivers by shifting all the costs of running a multinational corporation onto drivers - no reimbursement for car expenses, no health/dental insurance, no contribution to 401k, no sharing of Social Security or Medicare taxes etc.


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

I'll rephrase some of that last post of mine, I think even RandyShears would find Aarons posts laughable. When Randy used to post on here a while back, the uber rates were little more bearable. I think Randy would agree that 30 cents a mile for Detroit well I need not say more.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Slavic Riga said:


> Everyone has strategies not only you. But, don't force your strategy on everyone, just like 'UBER". It may work for you not for everyone. Everyone is not the same. People are different & have different circumstances. Empathize, there is no empathy in any of your posts. Just what we as driver partners & Independent Contractors should do. On a lighter note define 'PARTNER'. That's what the app defines us right.


I'm not here to empathize with people who are disrespectful and often very ignorant. You want empathy, go find a therapist. This discussion is about business. Period.

If someone isn't happy with Uber, it doesn't call for empathy from you or me or anyone else, it calls for that person finding a new line of work. If someone is underwater because they leased or bought a vehicle for Ubering, that doesn't need empathy, it needs a lesson in why it was a really stupid business decision to begin with. If someone is so bad at managing expenses that they can't make money, that doesn't require empathy, it requires that person to reexamine their strategy. (But goodness knows the people that complain the most that you can't make any money with Uber are the ones most convinced that they do things in the smartest way possible!)


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

howo3579 said:


> Not sure what you guys are arguing about. The tactic obviously works because morons will then accept *unprofitable pings* to avoid timeouts.


One of my most profitable rides was a 14 minute ping. Some of my least profitable rides have pinged from right around the corner.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Coachman said:


> One of my most profitable rides was a 14 minute ping. Some of my least profitable rides have pinged from right around the corner.


Yeah, Coachman, but don't you know that people on this forum are psychic? I agree 100% as that has been my experience as well. But all the psychics here will come up with every possible rationale to work as little as possible as they complain that they don't make any money!

So much butthurt, so little common sense around these parts!


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> I'm not here to empathize with people who are disrespectful and often very ignorant. You want empathy, go find a therapist. This discussion is about business. Period.
> 
> If someone isn't happy with Uber, it doesn't call for empathy from you or me or anyone else, it calls for that person finding a new line of work. If someone is underwater because they leased or bought a vehicle for Ubering, that doesn't need empathy, it needs a lesson in why it was a really stupid business decision to begin with. If someone is so bad at managing expenses that they can't make money, that doesn't require empathy, it requires that person to reexamine their strategy. (But goodness knows the people that complain the most that you can't make any money with Uber are the ones most convinced that they do things in the smartest way possible!)


Well said, it definitely proves you are from Corporate. We have to accept your thinking.
I am not a Follower. I am a 'LEADER'. 
There are very few Leaders but plenty of Followers & you fall into the category of 'FOLLOWER'.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Coachman said:


> One of my most profitable rides was a 14 minute ping. Some of my least profitable rides have pinged from right around the corner.


An example: Most of the ping ignoring advocates here would probably turn down a trip 15 minutes out at 4:00am near Regency Square Mall even at 1.5 surge. Turned out that XL trip was a $110 fare to the Omni Resort Amelia Island. Man was I glad I didn't listen to the so-called smart drivers here!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> Your response proves you do not know what integrity is and possess none.


You are using the word integrity to describe activity related to Uber?

We just follow their lead, don't we?


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Slavic Riga said:


> Well said, it definitely proves you are from Corporate. We have to accept your thinking.
> I am not a Follower. I am a 'LEADER'.
> There are very few Leaders but plenty of Followers & you fall into the category of 'FOLLOWER'.


As you push the same opinion as 50 other people here. I bet you want all the drivers to get a trophy just for showing up, too, don't you? I've never seen such a collection of whiny little self-aggrandizing, entitlement minded, no work ethic brats as on this forum.

That has been Uber's biggest mistake, that there is no interview process to vet out the people who lack the skillset and mindset to work independently. That will be a big problem down the road because all of the whiny punks they brought on lack the maturity to not take out their perpetual discontent on riders.


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

If you did land such a lucrative fare from a far away ping, I'm certain you would have called/texted the pax(asking for destination) before going all the way over there. Why don't you show a proof of this so called trip too Omni-whatever. Anyone can just make up a figure. Nice try though.

But two can play at that game. Hey everyone! I answered a ping 20 minutes away and it turned to be a $250 fare to omaha. or was it $175 or 334 or -18 or this or that.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You are using the word integrity to describe activity related to Uber?
> 
> We just follow their lead, don't we?


No.

I continue to treat my riders with fairness, respect, and honesty regardless of what Uber does. I do what I do to the best of my ability because that what you do when you take a job. I place blame where blame belongs and don't take out any displeasure I have with Uber on my riders. I understand that there were things agreed to and things not agreed to in our contract, and my word is my vow, so even if I don't like certain things, I accept them if they don't violatethose terms that I've agreed to. I behave ethically and with dedication to the task at hand.

Those things are integrity. Integrity does not depend on the actions of others and does not require external reward for doing what is right. There is no such thing as conditional integrity.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

secretadmirer said:


> If you did land such a lucrative fare from a far away ping, I'm certain you would have called/texted the pax(asking for destination) before going all the way over there. Why don't you show a proof of this so called trip too Omni-whatever. Anyone can just make up a figure. Nice try though.
> 
> But two can play at that game. Hey everyone! I answered a ping 20 minutes away and it turned to be a $250 fare to omaha. or was it $175 or 334 or -18 or this or that.


No, I didn't call the rider because if I accept a trip, I run the trip. That's called being a man of your word.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing complaints from riders about the waste of time that results from dick drivers calling after accepting a trip and then cancelling because they don't like the destination. Any driver who pulls that crap without a damn good reason ought to be fired.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

LMAO!!!!!!


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## howo3579 (Dec 8, 2015)

Coachman said:


> One of my most profitable rides was a 14 minute ping. Some of my least profitable rides have pinged from right around the corner.


It's 50/50 odds. Short pickup pings can very well happen to be your most profitable ride as well. But if you're not too good at math and calculating the probability, feel free to accept all long pick up pings and cancel short pickup pings.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

howo3579 said:


> It's 50/50 odds. Short pickup pings can very well happen to be your most profitable ride as well. But if you're not too good at math and calculating the probability, feel free to accept all long pick up pings and cancel short pickup pings.


Well said!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

howo3579 said:


> It's 50/50 odds. Short pickup pings can very well happen to be your most profitable ride as well. But if you're not too good at math, feel free to accept all long pick up pings and cancel short pickup pings.


Exactly right about it being odds! That's why I don't try to be a psychic.

It's not even always 50/50! Long pickup at a shopping mall, probably not gonna be great. Odds are in favor of it being an employee going home who probably lives nearby or a local doing some shopping. Long pickup in Ponte Vedra on a Friday morning? Damn good chance at a $30 airport trip. Same thing at a hotel on a weekday morning.

Doesn't mean there's no situational strategy, but it's more along the line of cancelling exactly at 5 minutes wait for the mall pickup, but maybe waiting a couple more minutes or making the phone call for the hotel pickup who's running late.

There are odds in any situation, but a lot of people here don't get it.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> No.
> 
> I continue to treat my riders with fairness, respect, and honesty regardless of what Uber does. I do what I do to the best of my ability because that what you do when you take a job. I place blame where blame belongs and don't take out any displeasure I have with Uber on my riders. I understand that there were things agreed to and things not agreed to in our contract, and my word is my vow, so even if I don't like certain things, I accept them if they don't violatethose terms that I've agreed to. I behave ethically and with dedication to the task at hand.
> 
> Those things are integrity. Integrity does not depend on the actions of others and does not require external reward for doing what is right. There is no such thing as conditional integrity.


You're missing my point. Why would you expect a company that has no integrity to have employees, sorry "independent contractors" with integrity?

Wouldn't someone who finds integrity to be so important to them (as you claim you do) not work for such a company in the first place?

Which begs the question: Why ARE YOU working for a company which is clearly the antithesis of what you claim is so important to you?

Because you're making money?

Hmm.


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

Uber and integrity are on opposites sides of the world.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You're missing my point. Why would you expect a company that has no integrity to have employees, sorry "independent contractors" with integrity?
> 
> Wouldn't someone who finds integrity to be so important to them (as you claim you do) not work for such a company in the first place?
> 
> ...


No. Because I generally have had no issue with Uber. I have not found them to be dishonest with me. We have a contract, it's all spelled out what each side is expected to do and not expected to do. Issues like this time out thing only affects drivers who, frankly, I agree are behaving badly and in opposition to the business interest that allows me to earn money. I honestly support it.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

secretadmirer said:


> Uber and integrity are on opposites sides of the world.


Funny how fuzzypelvis and secretingadmirer continually throw out statements like this without actually identifying a single thing that runs counter to our contracts. Yet fuzzypelvis particularly continually demands proof of any statement that goes against his distorted world view.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Wait till the driver becomes bored and fatigued while trying to wait around that long for the next run...accidents waiting to happen. More deaths brought to you by Uber Corporate


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

BurgerTiime said:


> Wait till the driver becomes bored and fatigued while trying to wait around that long for the next run...accidents waiting to happen. More deaths brought to you by Uber Corporate


Yeah because waiting around is more fatiguing than driving and drivers can't be expected to judge their own safety and alertness.


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## howo3579 (Dec 8, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> No. Because I generally have had no issue with Uber. I have not found them to be dishonest with me. We have a contract, it's all spelled out what each side is expected to do and not expected to do. Issues like this time out thing only affects drivers who, frankly, I agree are behaving badly and in opposition to the business interest that allows me to earn money. I honestly support it.


I like your positive attitude. For me though it's not worth it. Uber's contract doesn't mention anything about how many pings you get to accept or ignore so Uber is essentially breaking the contract by putting drivers in timeouts. We are not cab. We are using Uber as "ride sharing" app as Uber itself claimed which means we have no obligation to accept all pings. Same with the rates. The rates are only "suggested" if you read the contract. We can actually negotiate different rates with pax. That's how Uber claims they are not a transportation company.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Coachman said:


> You're analogy failed right off the bat, because if Uber were a restaurant, we would not be the diners, we'd be the hired help.


No. Rather comically, Uber has claimed that we drivers are in fact its customers. Apparently, Uber sees us as its customers because we "purchase" the use of their rideshare app and technology. We pay them the ride fee; they are the vendor and we the customers.

So, if we were to believe Uber, and the Uber cheerleaders here on the forum certainly do, then the analogy of we as the buyers is valid. But the analogy isn't to be taken as a serious critique - it's just a little mockery of the ridiculous twaddle the company comes out with.


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## Shine'ola (Oct 7, 2014)

here in Orlando our timeout for rejecting trip request is 10 minutes, I sit at home out in the burbs and with our new dynamic pricing ( crap surge testing ) it never surges….so I don't accept rides and then I switch over to the rider app and see no cars available…on everything X, XL, and Select, move the pin around…same results. I then grab the wife's phone (she has not gotten to this stage of getting an email warning timeout ) turn her driver app on and it blows up. Uber can't think of a more efficient way to lose money and piss off riders, it's just not possible to screw things up anymore than they currently are. Lets piss the drivers off so by cutting rates, 30% will stop driving, our coverage will go to zero in some areas, lets turn the surge off, riders will not get rides…brilliant Uber just brilliant


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

howo3579 said:


> I like your positive attitude. For me though it's not worth it. Uber's contract doesn't mention anything about how many pings you get to accept or ignore so Uber is essentially breaking the contract by putting drivers in timeouts. We are not cab. We are using Uber as "ride sharing" app as Uber itself claimed which means we have no obligation to accept all pings. Same with the rates. The rates are only "suggested" if you read the contract. We can actually negotiate different rates with pax. That's how Uber claims they are not a transportation company.


Not entirely true. Our contract says we can negotiate a LOWER fare. Not any fare. It also, if I'm not mistaken says that they can deny access to the platform without notice for any reason. So, timeouts are totally within the scope of the agreement.


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## ChinatownJake (Jan 3, 2016)

One of the biggest mistakes Uber has made is not differentiating between drivers who've been doing it for years. vs. those who have been doing it for weeks. A huge, missed opportunity to reward that time of service with, say, more leeway when it comes to rejecting rides (and other perks).


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## howo3579 (Dec 8, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Not entirely true. Our contract says we can negotiate a LOWER fare. Not any fare. It also, if I'm not mistaken says that they can deny access to the platform without notice for any reason. So, timeouts are totally within the scope of the agreement.


I agree they have right to deny access to the app. For the rate though it's still suggested. They say you can negotiate a lower fare but still don't say you can't negotiate a higher fare. And they still say the rate that they put out is suggested. So yea you can negotiate a higher fare and still not break the contract. That is if you are willing to go thru the trouble and risk getting deactivated.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> No. Because I generally have had no issue with Uber. I have not found them to be dishonest with me. We have a contract, it's all spelled out what each side is expected to do and not expected to do. Issues like this time out thing only affects drivers who, frankly, I agree are behaving badly and in opposition to the business interest that allows me to earn money. I honestly support it.


Uber just paid out $28 million for lying to pax. They are being sued all over the planet for dishonest practices. Calling us contractors is at the top of the list. On individual lawsuits they have already lost on that front.

Also, being "technically honest" (although I could argue with you there) does not mean you are not ethically challenged. Note the way the term "earnings" is used to mislead potential drivers into making poor decisions.

And don't tell me that's the drivers' faults alone. That's like saying talking an old person into "investing" in your very risky company and having them lose it all is on them. Yes, maybe that makes them stupid or uninformed, but that doesn't absolve YOU. Taking advantage of people is Uber's stock in trade.

You are one of those people who will say "They were stupid and should have known better." Well guess what: a little less than 50% of people are below average intelligence. Does that mean they should be taken advantage of by those who presumably are smarter, and know they are selling snake oil?

If you think Uber as a company has one shred of integrity or humanity you are sadly mistaken. Maybe you've been lucky and/or smart so far and they haven't hurt YOU. Just like Travis it's all about YOU.


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

I have to admit this is a very entertaining thread. When uber sends their shills/lackies on here trying to convince us that uber is a far-out happening sort of gig. I suppose you're going to tell us that we should offer the pax snacks mints potatochips drinks out of integrity. hahahahahahahaha that's a good one. I could use some popcorn.

Film at 11.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Uber just paid out $28 million for lying to pax.


The "safe rides" suit was quite a good one. Much more entertaining though was Uber's SFO airport fee scam, which they're currently being sued over. They tacked on a $4 fee to rides to the airport and called it an airport fee in spite of paying none of it to the airport for months. Their defense? "We never said we were going to pay the fee to the airport. It was just a fee for going to the airport. An airport fee!"

LMAO


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## rocksteady (Mar 19, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


Mindless?? haha! the painful irony. Keep patting yourself on the back doing those pick ups 20 minutes away to potentially make a base fare. 2 bucks an hour, BAM!


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

elelegido said:


> No. Rather comically, Uber has claimed that we drivers are in fact its customers. Apparently, Uber sees us as its customers because we "purchase" the use of their rideshare app and technology. We pay them the ride fee; they are the vendor and we the customers.
> 
> So, if we were to believe Uber, and the Uber cheerleaders here on the forum certainly do, then the analogy of we as the buyers is valid. But the analogy isn't to be taken as a serious critique - it's just a little mockery of the ridiculous twaddle the company comes out with.


When I worked for the government we occasionally went through exercises in which we identified our customers. Apparently that was a tool to help us become more proficient in our jobs.

But there's no question who the "customer" is in the Uber business. It's the guy signing into the rider app and paying for a ride. Uber knows that. The rider knows that. And you know that.

We're just the hired help. And we're expendable.

Aknowledgeing that doesn't make us Uber cheerleaders or Uber shills. It's just reality.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Coachman said:


> But there's no question who the "customer" is in the Uber business. It's the guy signing into the rider app and paying for a ride. Uber knows that. The rider knows that. And you know that.
> 
> We're just the hired help. And we're expendable.


So, when Uber goes on the record and claims we are its customers, when it knows, as you say, that we are not, are you therefore accusing Uber of publicly lying and trying to deceive?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

rocksteady said:


> Mindless?? haha! the painful irony. Keep patting yourself on the back doing those pick ups 20 minutes away to potentially make a base fare. 2 bucks an hour, BAM!


I've never accepted a ping 20 minutes away. But today I accepted a ping 13 minutes away. I had sat idle for nearly 20 minutes before I got that request. If I'd turned it down, how much longer would I have had to sit waiting? Another five minutes? Ten? Twenty. You're familiar with the idea of opportunity cost, yes?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

elelegido said:


> So, when Uber goes on the record and claims we are its customers, when it knows, as you say, that we are not, are you therefore accusing Uber of publicly lying and trying to deceive?


Uber also said drivers could make $90K per year. Are you still upset about that? Since I'm not an Uber shill or cheerleader, I don't have to justify Uber's questionable claims. I'm not hung up on them as some of you seem to be because they're irrelevant to me and my earnings.

I do care about concrete things like rates and tipping options, because those impact my bottom line.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Since I'm not an Uber shill or cheerleader, I don't have to justify Uber's questionable claims.


I'll take that as a begrudgingly affirmative answer.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Actually, after expenses, I do about double minimum wage. See, I actually know what I'm doing.


Look: Anyone can claim to make whatever he thinks he makes. Do you have the courage to post numbers to prove your claims?

What rates are you driving at and what is the minimum wage in your state?

Post screenshots of your last week's earnings. Then, list the total miles driven to earn that, from the time you left your house, to the time you returned home. Then, tell us how many hours to earn that, from the time you left home 'til you returned home, not just the app hours. Don't exaggerate just to save face.

Let's see what you really earn . . .


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Exactly right about it being odds! That's why I don't try to be a psychic.
> 
> It's not even always 50/50! Long pickup at a shopping mall, probably not gonna be great. Odds are in favor of it being an employee going home who probably lives nearby or a local doing some shopping. Long pickup in Ponte Vedra on a Friday morning? Damn good chance at a $30 airport trip. Same thing at a hotel on a weekday morning.
> 
> ...


No need to be a psychic. Call the passenger and ask their destination. If it's somewhere that's profitable for you to go, take the fare. If not, convince the passenger to cancel. There are many ways to do this, if you have the right mindset to be a truly independent contractor, as opposed to a doormat. No, I'm not going to tell you how I do this.

If you are not making $1.50-2.00 in pre-expense revenue per total of all miles driven, you are almost certainly driving for sub-minimum wage, if not losing money. That means, if you drive 100 total miles from the time you left home until you returned, you need to be putting into your bank account (after fees) $150-200. Unless you are ignoring many of your costs.


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## rocksteady (Mar 19, 2015)

Coachman said:


> I've never accepted a ping 20 minutes away. But today I accepted a ping 13 minutes away. I had sat idle for nearly 20 minutes before I got that request. If I'd turned it down, how much longer would I have had to sit waiting? Another five minutes? Ten? Twenty. You're familiar with the idea of opportunity cost, yes?


sure, it's up to you decide what is an "opportunity." Taking those low value rides doesn't usually create higher value opportunities. You're not exactly "investing in the future" by doing so. The system doesn't work that way. I reduce my hours to those times of highest demand because I hate sitting in the car so I'll give in and do rides that will likely be below what I think my time is worth. If your time is worth 5 bucks an hour, cool. Someone will be laughing all the way to the bank but it won't be you. Unless you're a glutton for punishment or think it's 1970.

To answer another of your posts, why does it bother anybody if Uber lies in its driver recruitment advertising? Because it does affect my bottom line. Simple supply and demand.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Not entirely true. Our contract says we can negotiate a LOWER fare. Not any fare. It also, if I'm not mistaken says that they can deny access to the platform without notice for any reason. So, timeouts are totally within the scope of the agreement.


Bolshevik. It only specifies the lower fare. It says nothing to eliminate the possibility of negotiating a higher fare. Don't get bamboozled by Uberspeak.


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## Modern-Day-Slavery (Feb 22, 2016)

elelegido said:


> With its new time out policy of putting drivers on the naughty step for not accepting pings, Uber shows that it favors the stick approach with drivers instead of the carrot.
> 
> At the same time, Uber claims that we drivers are actually its customers. I wonder, if Uber went into the restaurant business, whether it would use the same approach. The customer, in theory, would have free choice of the items offered by the restaurant and could reject menu items that he /she did not want.
> 
> ...


Because Uber is run by a bunch of ****s


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## rocksteady (Mar 19, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> No need to be a psychic. Call the passenger and ask their destination. If it's somewhere that's profitable for you to go, take the fare. If not, convince the passenger to cancel. There are many ways to do this, if you have the right mindset to be a truly independent contractor, as opposed to a doormat. No, I'm not going to tell you how I do this.
> 
> If you are not making $1.50-2.00 in pre-expense revenue per total of all miles driven, you are almost certainly driving for sub-minimum wage, if not losing money. That means, if you drive 100 total miles from the time you left home until you returned, you need to be putting into your bank account (after fees) $150-200. Unless you are ignoring many of your costs.


or math is not your strong suit or you're using newer chevy quad-cab pickup to drive uberX. last year I netted 61 cents/mile. that's after maintenance, depreciation, gas. net per hour was $13.50. For a low-skills job that I can work when I want I think that's pretty good.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

rocksteady said:


> or math is not your strong suit or you're using newer chevy quad-cab pickup to drive uberX. last year I netted 61 cents/mile. that's after maintenance, depreciation, gas. net per hour was $13.50. For a low-skills job that I can work when I want I think that's pretty good.


You are stating that as fact. It's easy to claim anything you feel like you make, or to comfort yourself, or whatever. Can you back up your claims with proof?

Here's what that requires (along with honesty):

What rates do you drive under (base, mileage, per-minute, minimum fare)?

How many after-fees dollars did you take home?

How many total miles driven from our door to return to earn that money?

How many total hours, from your door to return, to earn that money? Do not give me "on-app hours." That is just lying to yourself.

Do you have the courage to face the math?


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## tohellwithu (Nov 30, 2014)

Being independent contractor is sweet as (fresh Lime & Vinegar with salt) love that combination to make u wink for a second.


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## rocksteady (Mar 19, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> You are stating that as fact. It's easy to claim anything you feel like you make, or to comfort yourself, or whatever. Can you back up your claims with proof?
> 
> Here's what that requires (along with honesty):
> 
> ...


where do you think I got those numbers? Me Uber financials spreadsheet. My app is usually on door to door. If I turn it off, I don't count that time as worked because I'm not working. When it's on, I'm taking requests, within reason. The rates are only relevant to the outcome which I already stated. If I'm telling you what I made per hour, that is (payout-expenses) / hours. I stated what my net earnings per mile was. The amount of miles is of no consequence because gas, depreciation and maintenance are considered in the equation. Person "A" drove 1000 miles. Person "B" drove 10,000 miles. Who did better? Depends on the parameters. What's the measuring stick? I could state either one and it would be meaningless because I already stated, for me, the most meaningful measuring stick--net income per hour. How much am I making for my time. Means a hell of a lot more to me than net income per mile.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

elelegido said:


> The "safe rides" suit was quite a good one. Much more entertaining though was Uber's SFO airport fee scam, which they're currently being sued over. They tacked on a $4 fee to rides to the airport and called it an airport fee in spite of paying none of it to the airport for months. Their defense? "We never said we were going to pay the fee to the airport. It was just a fee for going to the airport. An airport fee!"
> 
> LMAO


Sometimes ya just gotta admire their gall.


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## rocksteady (Mar 19, 2015)

ubersuperbowlstrike said:


> If ubet actually cared about riders they wouldn't take a close available driver off line PERIOD this just shows you that they are not willing to accept they are wrong swallow their pride & to the right thing so everybody wins. Oh nose I can't log in gives me time to drive to the airport which is now the only profitable ride in the city now anyway. Fool me once shame on you.....its to the point where I only accept hotel address' & airport rides anyway, or I call pax & tell them I only do airport runs so if you want to save 10+ minutes you should prob cancel. I didn't get a part time job to work for free. Only uneducated people with lack of basic math skills keep falling for this stuff, I don't pick up restaurants, bars, schools, rail stations, malls, stores unless it's a 1.8 or higher surge, but you know what if I got $4 minimum fare (20% instead of 50% cut), there was a tip option, & minimum $1.5 a mile ID happily pick up every pax request instead of going offline after every drop off, cancelling most address's, or letting them expire....the Titanic is in full effect they're new hires are either immigrants, senior citizens, unemployable, or nut cases like the shooter, great job ubet see how long that lasts, 1* fares get 1* treatment period I go out my way now to tell every rider that's not going 10+ miles what a evil company they are


I agree. It's like they lack basic business sense. They seem more about control than actually making money. They'd rather customers have less options. Would a passenger rather pay a bit more and it still be cheaper and more efficient than a cab or would they rather have no ride at all? Do they really think most drivers are going to make the behavioral change they want by putting them in a condescending time out? I doubt most will. It's disrespectful. I would call it a night if they pulled that shit.

Why not try a positive incentive? Such as, if the pick up is more than 6 miles away there's a base charge per amount of distance to the pick up with no commission deduction. Since Uber wasn't making any money off that time anyways and its keeping they're drivers online and accepting requests, it's good for everybody. Because Uber's not taking a 20%-30% cut, the cost could be kept relatively low. How about 50 cents per mile over 6 miles away? Or if it was over 6 miles away, pax could be required to put in destination address. Say if it's 8 miles away but it's a 20 mile ride, no pick up fee maybe. Just brainstorming here. Point is, there are much better ways to encourage your workforce than punishments that just piss them off because it puts them between a rock and a hard place, pisses off the customer because they have trouble getting a ride and costs Uber potential profit because it takes cars off the road and pisses off both pax and driver..


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

Whenever I had a ping more then 10 minutes away I always contacted the app first. If it was a short run I gave them the option to cancel, which they did usually, so it didn't affect my acceptance rate (which I didn't care about anyways because I only drove uber parttime), I stopped driving when they reduced the rates from $2 to 1.20/mile. I wasn't shocked when they cut the rates because I knew it was going to happen.

They had emailed me several times about my "idle" status, and I wrote back and said, feel to deactivate me because I'll only if the rates are above $2/mile.
Needless to say they still haven't deactivated me yet, which I wish they would already. I have no hard feelings about it. Some of these uberites will say if you don't like the uber rates then don't drive bit, well I don't, hahahah. But I'll warn others who want to join uber about their shady business practices.


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## Stlman (Feb 17, 2016)

Rider rating makes no difference I've picked up riders that have had a 3.7 had no issues and was nice you drivers rate inefficiently is a customer throws up in your car it's a 1 if customer is good but no tip it's a 4 if customer takes to long meaning 4-6 minutes after that cancel but ends up showing up and doesn't tip that's a 3 there is no 2


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

I wonder if landreas moved to florida.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

rocksteady said:


> where do you think I got those numbers? Me Uber financials spreadsheet. My app is usually on door to door. If I turn it off, I don't count that time as worked because I'm not working. When it's on, I'm taking requests, within reason. The rates are only relevant to the outcome which I already stated. If I'm telling you what I made per hour, that is (payout-expenses) / hours. I stated what my net earnings per mile was. The amount of miles is of no consequence because gas, depreciation and maintenance are considered in the equation. Person "A" drove 1000 miles. Person "B" drove 10,000 miles. Who did better? Depends on the parameters. What's the measuring stick? I could state either one and it would be meaningless because I already stated, for me, the most meaningful measuring stick--net income per hour. How much am I making for my time. Means a hell of a lot more to me than net income per mile.


Post the screenshots and the numbers asked for or it didn't happen.


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> Are you at 20% commission? I wonder if the time out is shorter to the 25%ers..


X is at 20% here ... but I only drive XL, Select, Lux (all at 28%) ... though after the most recent cuts, I rarely drive XL because it suffered a 20% fare cut, but Uber still gets 28%. So unless XL is surging 1.8x+, I'm not even turning on the XL profile ...


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

Uberduberdoo said:


> View attachment 28960


Best thing to do is stay offline until it surges ... and then you're not canceling to manipulate surge


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## glados (May 23, 2015)

secretadmirer said:


> Whenever I had a ping more then 10 minutes away I always contacted the app first. If it was a short run I gave them the option to cancel, which they did usually, so it didn't affect my acceptance rate (which I didn't care about anyways because I only drove uber parttime), I stopped driving when they reduced the rates from $2 to 1.20/mile. I wasn't shocked when they cut the rates because I knew it was going to happen.
> 
> They had emailed me several times about my "idle" status, and I wrote back and said, feel to deactivate me because I'll only if the rates are above $2/mile.
> Needless to say they still haven't deactivated me yet, which I wish they would already. I have no hard feelings about it. Some of these uberites will say if you don't like the uber rates then don't drive bit, well I don't, hahahah. But I'll warn others who want to join uber about their shady business practices.


 I understand and would do the same if I was in your situation, but keep in mind riders are asked why they cancelled. One option is "driver asked to", which would ding your cancellation rate. Acceptance and cancellation rates are separate.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Coachman said:


> I've never accepted a ping 20 minutes away. But today I accepted a ping 13 minutes away. I had sat idle for nearly 20 minutes before I got that request. If I'd turned it down, how much longer would I have had to sit waiting? Another five minutes? Ten? Twenty. You're familiar with the idea of opportunity cost, yes?


Probably not. Or many other things. Which is why people like him can't believe you can make more than minimum wage. If they can't figure it out, it must not be so!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

You're right. There's no way I make minimum wage driving. I make substantially more. As in the last time I got to drive a full week (week before last) I made $20.06 an hour earnings which after expenses came in around $15 and change an hour. And, yes, I've already posted proof.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> I'll accept just about any ping


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> You're right. There's no way I make minimum wage driving. I make substantially more. As in the last time I got to drive a full week (week before last) I made $20.06 an hour earnings which after expenses came in around $15 and change an hour. And, yes, I've already posted proof.


Please provide a hyperlink if you refuse to repost.


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## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> ...because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available. How is this not obvious?


What you are forgetting, Chef Aarron, is that the most commonly refused rides these days are the deliberately misleading "1 minute to pickup destination" UberPool pings that no other driver close enough even bothers to consider anymore. Uber created this monster and now doesn't seem to like the "negative incentive" (no ride) drivers are offering to Uber in return. How is this not obvious?


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## GILD (Feb 8, 2016)

ahh, so much better, chef Aarron on ignore. $15 net an hour and taking all his pings, sure. just click him and , boom, selected ignore!
If I want Uber lies, ill just look at my pool pings that are 1 min away.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

elelegido said:


> I'll take that as a begrudgingly affirmative answer.


The problem is that on this board if you're not a flaming Uber hater, then you're classified as a shill or cheerleader. There's plenty about Uber to gripe about. But I don't have to gripe about them on every issue.

So let me ask you this... how may pings should you be able to turn down before Uber stops sending you requests?


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## fatherted69 (Feb 22, 2016)

New driver here. How long is the wait time after we have arrived at their pickup address, is it 5 minutes? Today I texted the PAX 2 minutes after I arrived to say I'm there. He quickly he calls me and said I'll be about in 30 seconds. He finally comes about about 6 minutes after I got there. All for a short 1.4 mile/4:40 minute trip $5.47 gross.
Should I have canceled after the 5 minutes?


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Coachman said:


> The problem is that on this board if you're not a flaming Uber hater, then you're classified as a shill or cheerleader. There's plenty about Uber to gripe about. But I don't have to gripe about them on every issue.
> 
> So let me ask you this... how may pings should you be able to turn down before Uber stops sending you requests?


As many as we want! When uber stops sending me pings they are no longer connecting pax to th closest driver.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Coachman said:


> So let me ask you this... how may pings should you be able to turn down before Uber stops sending you requests?


I'd say that three trips ignored by the driver is about the right amount before Uber logs a driver off. He/she may after all have, in spite of the gripping nature of this job, fallen asleep while waiting for a ping. Or he/she may have toddled off to the rest room intending to pinch a quick loaf but instead picked up an interesting magazine only to emerge half an hour later. I'm sure we've all been there and done that, and been unable to stand up or walk until the blood flow drains back down into the legs again.

Anyway, I digress. To answer your question, three is enough, and it's fine for Uber to log drivers off. But this should be done just in case the driver forgot to log him/herself off as above. They should be able to log back on immediately.

If Uber wants to avoid having its riders inconvenienced by the extra wait involved with their pings sent out only to be timed out by drivers, all Uber has to do is add the functionality in the driver app to allow each driver to set their maximum allowable pickup time - problem solved. I would set my pickup radius from 5 to 10 minutes, based on surge. Others here would set theirs to 10-20 minutes or more, some to 30 minutes. Whatever floats their boat. Drivers would only get the pings they want, riders don't have to wait while pings expire, Uber doesn't have to send out its nastygrams about acceptance rates. As the 1970s soul/funk band Hot Chocolate said, everyone's a winner baby.


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## rocksteady (Mar 19, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> Post the screenshots and the numbers asked for or it didn't happen.


I'm not going to post my earnings because I like my anonymity. It allows me to say what I think about Uber and not get deactivated. You're accusing me of making false statements because I won't show proof. The absence of proof doesn't automatically mean it's not true. That's as much speculation as what you're opposing. It's more important that I stay active than it is I prove something to some anonymous person. How do I even know you're an actual person and not a bot? Post a video of you with your drivers license signing onto the forum with your username and then cut yourself so I know you're a human being or else you're not.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Really!? You've never heard the term negative incentive? It means incentivizing a good behavior by taking something else good away if it isn't performed. As opposed to a deterrent which causes people not to perform bad behavior because of the perceived consequences or punishment which directly causes something unpleasant to happen when bad behavior is performed.


Oh! _Negative Incentives. _Like the ones the Fascists & Nazis used for population control...we will only look at the _positive incentives _they used. Since we know all too well what their _negative incentives _entailed (e.g. Eugenics, etc...)


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Hmm... I don't think Kalanick can be compared with Hitler. With Bozo the Clown and David Brent/Michael Scott, yes, but not the Nazis.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

glados said:


> OP, the automatic time out may not have any effect on you but that doesn't mean it has no effect on everyone. Plenty of drivers drive exclusively Uber.


I hope EVERY Uber driver reads what glados just stated, and gets Lyft on their phone if they do not already have it!


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

elelegido said:


> Hmm... I don't think Kalanick can be compared with Hitler. With Bozo the Clown and David Brent/Michael Scott, yes, but not the Nazis.


I am not comparing Kalanick with Hitler. I am simply stating that both Nazi's and Fascists used _negative incentives_ as a means for motivating the masses to do/be what they wanted. I believe it was Chef Aarron that used the term to which I was responding...


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

glados said:


> OP, the automatic time out may not have any effect on you but that doesn't mean it has no effect on everyone. Plenty of drivers drive exclusively Uber.


I think Uber's naughty step will be a powerful (positive) incentive for those drivers to correct that error.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> Your posts are by far the most condescending I have read on these forums.


Aarrogant too!


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


"Mindless behavior," this is actually MINDFUL behavior. THe smart driver calls and asks the pax who is 10 minutes out of the way where they are going. If the pax says anywhere within 5 miles, the MINDFUL driver asks the pax to cancel and request a closer driver and avoids taking a job that the driver will LOSE money doing.

The MINDFUL driver knows that the likelihood another driver closer to the pax will become available shortly if they aren't already available. THis MINDFUL behavior creates a better rider experience as the pax receives faster more efficient service. Less gas is wasted by the further driver driving out of their way and the environment is sparred an extra half a pound of carbon emissions.

You can always tell who the more experienced riders are when you receive/accept a request over 10 minutes away and they immediately cancel. They know that there is a very high likelihood another driver will be available that is closer to them and always prefer faster more efficient service.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Aaaah! I'm a shill and an employee because I have proven time and again that I make significant money driving Uber? I have no backbone because I understand what being an independent contractor means, understood from the word go that Uber has the pricing power by the terms of our contract, and when things change, instead of complaining and being antagonistic, I adjust my strategy accordingly to continue making money? So, because I continue to be successful because I adjust strategy to work in current circumstances instead of complaining about how the same old bad approaches don't work and how it's all Uber's fault, I'm the dumb one?
> 
> If some of you people on here put half as much effort into doing the right things to earn as you do complaining, we'd never hear from you again because you'd actually make money and wouldn't be so bitter and full of jealousy!


I _*Earned*_ (that means after Uber's cut and taking the SRF) just over $480 from Friday & Saturday night this past weekend - I have an acceptance rate over 90% and a lifetime (nearly 3k drives) Driver Rating of 4.92 - and I agree with this thread that timing-out drivers is no way to treat adults. Oh, and I have NEVER been timed-out...nor do I plan to.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Really!? You've never heard the term negative incentive? It means incentivizing a good behavior by taking something else good away if it isn't performed. As opposed to a deterrent which causes people not to perform bad behavior because of the perceived consequences or punishment which directly causes something unpleasant to happen when bad behavior is performed.


Well if those NEGS worked so great in SD why did they reduce the penalty box timeout from 15 minutes to 10?

LOL because the rate cuts have forced drivers out or on to Lyft in droves. Trying to get an Uber out of the airport is now extremely unreliable and currently I see "NO UBERX AVAILABLE" or "UberX 11+ minutes" there at least 60% of the times I look. Clearly the stick strategy is not working very well and created a lot of rider complaints about wait times, surges and cancels.

I tell all Pax the rate cuts were meant to eliminate drivers and increase the surges, because more surges means more profit for uber as they profit on every ride taken under surge not just one ride like a lucky driver would. Half the time in a surge a driver will get a request from 12 minutes away that isn't in the surge. New drivers will figure out the surge game soon and ACRO or burn out.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

glados said:


> *I understand and would do the same if I was in your situation*, but keep in mind riders are asked why they cancelled. One option is "driver asked to", which would ding your cancellation rate. Acceptance and cancellation rates are separate.


Very polite and understanding of you glados....really! : )


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Coachman said:


> So let me ask you this... how may pings should you be able to turn down before Uber stops sending you requests?


Very good question. Personally, I think Uber should provide a function that allows each driver the ability to _choose the distance_ they individually are willing to receive pings for. That said, I have accepted 25 minute pings more than once (Malibu & Pacific Palisades). Sort of my _giving back, _if you will.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

UberLaLa said:


> I _*Earned*_ (that means after Uber's cut and taking the SRF) just over $480 from Friday & Saturday night this past weekend - I have an acceptance rate over 90% and a lifetime (nearly 3k drives) Driver Rating of 4.92 - and I agree with this thread that timing-out drivers is no way to treat adults. Oh, and I have NEVER been timed-out...nor do I plan to.


THose earnings in the SD market could only be achieved at 22 hours online during the guaranteed mins of $25 per hour ($20 after ubers take) Unless the driver got very lucky with some big surges > highly unlikely in SD, over $400 in 2 weekend nights is practically impossible, even if they were busy nights. THe chances that you make just over $100 per night are way more likely for this market. Lesson to SD drivers, move to LA! really why do you live in SD anyway> it's just as expensive and 90% of you fools don't even SURF!


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

ubersuperbowlstrike said:


> And please damn near every rider who goes .08-4 miles goes out their way to apologize for the "short ride" they know they getting over just like they damn near all say man I usually tip but I'm not carrying cash haha or gotta love the groups who all call an Uber and the first one shows up win the rest get cancelled on, everyone gaming the system for self interest because Uber won't swallow it's pride. Smart drivers figure out how to make $ the rest quit to make way for the next round of dummies to be loss leaders for the stupidest company on earth. $4 min fare, min 1.50 per mile, tip option EVERYBODY WINS it's not rocket science, surges will vanish except for weather & events, all pax get picked up within minutes, still way cheaper & better than a cab, but no Uber want to give customers a different price every time they use service & let 80 year old walmar gretters & immigrants in 2001 camrys represent a "5* experience" what a joke this company had so much potential


yes but Uber depends on the surge for most of its profit potential. Uber gets paid on EVERY surge ride taken unlike how the driver gets lucky and might get one or 2 surges on a busy night but half the time they are less than 2x. Last week I had 60 cents in surge! I cancelled a lot of surge rides because It was more profitable to work the guaranteed mins than take my chance driving a surge fair for an extra $3~ potential profit. Without the guarantees I'll just go back to cherry picking long rides and ACRO for surge.

Uber paid me out more in subsidies last week than fares! LOL don't mean to brag but that's the way you protest boys and girls! hit them in the wallet!! Too bad most of the drivers didn't figure it out until the last two weeks of the minimums... sigh, this is why we can't have decent rates.... stupid drivers or noobs that can't do math or understand averages.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

rocksteady said:


> I agree. It's like they lack basic business sense. They seem more about control than actually making money. They'd rather customers have less options. Would a passenger rather pay a bit more and it still be cheaper and more efficient than a cab or would they rather have no ride at all? Do they really think most drivers are going to make the behavioral change they want by putting them in a condescending time out? I doubt most will. It's disrespectful. I would call it a night if they pulled that shit.
> 
> Why not try a positive incentive? Such as, if the pick up is more than 6 miles away there's a base charge per amount of distance to the pick up with no commission deduction. Since Uber wasn't making any money off that time anyways and its keeping they're drivers online and accepting requests, it's good for everybody. Because Uber's not taking a 20%-30% cut, the cost could be kept relatively low. How about 50 cents per mile over 6 miles away? Or if it was over 6 miles away, pax could be required to put in destination address. Say if it's 8 miles away but it's a 20 mile ride, no pick up fee maybe. Just brainstorming here. Point is, there are much better ways to encourage your workforce than punishments that just piss them off because it puts them between a rock and a hard place, pisses off the customer because they have trouble getting a ride and costs Uber potential profit because it takes cars off the road and pisses off both pax and driver..


Your absolutely right there are a ton of things Uber could do to make it a more pleasant and profitable experience for everyone, but Uber doesn't care about pax or drivers, uber cares about pleasing it's investors. It's a "tech" company built on VC money and beholden to the VCs. They chase numbers like Month over month rides and surge rate returns to prove how clever they are and when it doesn't work they blame the drivers for being the out lying variable that interferes. A company commited to maintianing a safe and reliable work force would be taking longer view approaches to solving issues like not enough drivers on peaks or too many on slow hours or too many short trips being canceled by eliminating the reasons these things happen.

A sliding mile rate would be a very easy fix to the tiny minimum fares. The further you go the cheaper it gets. The pax are getting essentially free trips when their cost is less than $10. Most people who drive themselves, after you factor in the cost of the vehicle and cost to operate and maintain it will probably pay more than $10 per trip they take over the life of their vehicle. SO by making it cheaper to own a car Uber is saying here is free transportation but it isn't becasue they are getting the drivers to subsidize it. clever eh, I don't think it was something anyone at uber was smart enough to intend to do but it just sorted fell into the hands of some extremely greedy and evil spirited people. I mean obviously they named the friggin company UBER, straight outta the Nazi propaganda handbook.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

elelegido said:


> Hmm... I don't think Kalanick can be compared with Hitler. With Bozo the Clown and David Brent/Michael Scott, yes, but not the Nazis.


He named the company UBER, that's a term straight out of the Nazi propaganda during the genocide. Travis see's himself as a modern Hitler that intends on genociding first the Taxi industry and then the Drivers. Look at the dude, he's short, dark hair and would look a lot like Hitler if he could grow a mustache. The company behaves like fascists, how could you deny the comparison.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> Please provide a hyperlink if you refuse to repost.


Do your own work. I have nothing to prove to you.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Friendly Jack said:


> What you are forgetting, Chef Aarron, is that the most commonly refused rides these days are the deliberately misleading "1 minute to pickup destination" UberPool pings that no other driver close enough even bothers to consider anymore. Uber created this monster and now doesn't seem to like the "negative incentive" (no ride) drivers are offering to Uber in return. How is this not obvious?


What you are forgetting is most markets don't have pool. What the majority of people here are referring to are not those pings but the ones 10 or 15 minutes away that are accurate.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

fatherted69 said:


> New driver here. How long is the wait time after we have arrived at their pickup address, is it 5 minutes? Today I texted the PAX 2 minutes after I arrived to say I'm there. He quickly he calls me and said I'll be about in 30 seconds. He finally comes about about 6 minutes after I got there. All for a short 1.4 mile/4:40 minute trip $5.47 gross.
> Should I have canceled after the 5 minutes?


Yes. Five minutes unless it is an exceptional situation. Exceptional situations being things like a pickup at a hotel that is likely an airport trip (long trip here), high surge, and such. Then I might give them 6. LOL! I actually start the timer clock on my phone when I pull up. When it hits 0, done.

The reality of the rates here in Jacksonville is that the scales have finally tipped to where a cancel actually pays out more than my average length trip of 7.1 miles! If every single request were a no show, I'd actually make more money!


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

DriverX said:


> THose earnings in the SD market could only be achieved at 22 hours online during the guaranteed mins of $25 per hour ($20 after ubers take) Unless the driver got very lucky with some big surges > highly unlikely in SD, over $400 in 2 weekend nights is practically impossible, even if they were busy nights. THe chances that you make just over $100 per night are way more likely for this market. Lesson to SD drivers, move to LA! really why do you live in SD anyway> it's just as expensive and 90% of you fools don't even SURF!


This was 9 hours on Friday night and 10 on Saturday - had dinner both nights and a couple of short breaks in there - so, probably 8-9 hours actual driving.

SD so nice though! : )


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> He named the company UBER, that's a term straight out of the Nazi propaganda during the genocide. Travis see's himself as a modern Hitler that intends on genociding first the Taxi industry and then the Drivers. Look at the dude, he's short, dark hair and would look a lot like Hitler if he could grow a mustache. The company behaves like fascists, how could you deny the comparison.


Actually, über is a German word mean over, above, or across. Has nothing to do with "Nazi propaganda." It's a fairly common word. Your statement makes no more sense than me saying you're a Nazi because the word "the" is all over their propaganda! "Uber," on the other hand, isn't even a word any more than "google" or other made up tradenames. The umlaut matters in German.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Slavic Riga said:


> Manipulation of words & sentences.  Nowhere did I mention refusing pings or accepting pings then canceling Read properly 'From transportation point of view, me, *INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR, natural person* can make a distinction & decision whether I should take the ping or not." & deactivated for 'NO Reason" is bullying.
> 
> Like I mentioned before you have SELECTIVE reading capabilities, now you have proved to all you have LIMITED understanding capabilities too.


Would not making "a distinction & decision whether I should take the ping or not" entail sometimes not taking the ping, i.e. refusing the ping? I think I read that pretty accurately and understood pretty well. Duh!


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

elelegido said:


> No. Once again you demonstrate failure to grasp the point being made. I am not saying that Uber is trying to get what it wants by reducing its labor pool. Rather, Uber is trying to get what it wants by threatening and trying to punish its own drivers.
> 
> Yes, Uber giving me timeouts will result in lower Uber earnings for me. But I am not complaining about them doing this. I simply switch over to Lyft. My overall earnings may or may not be slightly lower overall because of it, but so be it. Whatever small difference in overall earnings may result from this, it is not large enough to force me into being bossed around by Uber. I can also choose to remove myself from the Uber labor pool for any other reason I choose. Maybe I don't like the pickup location, or the rider's rating, or maybe I want to stop for a coffee. Again, this is my choice and will also result in lower Uber earnings. No complaints; no inconsistency in what I say; no hypocrisy.
> 
> No, the point I was making was that, in my case, Uber's naughty step has no deterrent effect whatsoever. Instead, it results in diverting part of its labor pool to Lyft, for which I am sure they are very grateful and most likely laughing their butts off at Uber.


All this ridiculous gaming. Measures and counter measures. It's could all be eliminated. Uber is incredibly stubborn.

They really need to scrap the whole thing and start over. It's beyond help.

It's has to work for drivers, passengers, and Uber. Otherwise, their stool just falls over.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> Your analogy fails, too. The bartenders and servers aren't paying all the bills to run the restaurant.


And you're not paying all the bills to run Uber. You're paying to run your car much as waiters pay for their attire that's required for the position, cleaning that attire or replacing it when it gets stained by food, extra cost for shoes because they are on their feet all shift and they wear faster, etc. The riders are paying to run Uber when they pay the fare.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Actually, über is a German word mean over, above, or across. Has nothing to do with "Nazi propaganda." It's a fairly common word. Your statement makes no more sense than me saying you're a Nazi because the word "the" is all over their propaganda! "Uber," on the other hand, isn't even a word any more than "google" or other made up tradenames. The umlaut matters in German.


Actually, _Uber Cab_ was TK's initial version of what is now Uber. It was named that to say _better than a taxi. _And _Google _is a word (within the math world spelled: googol) and the founders of Google picked it because of it's meaning- _A googol is 10 to the 100th power (which is 1 followed by 100 zeros). A googol is larger than the number of elementary particles in the universe, which amount to only 10 to the 80th power.
_
However, I do agree with you that TK is not an evil Nazi nor did he name Uber, _Uber _for any nefarious reasons.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

GILD said:


> too bad children cant drive cars.


They do. Then they come here to complain about it!


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> They do. Then they come here to complain about it!


Your constant barrage of stop complaining is pointing it's nasty other fingers back at you Chef Aarron. If you don't like this thread/board, don't visit it. EzPz


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

UberLaLa said:


> Actually, _Uber Cab_ was TK's initial version of what is now Uber. It was named that to say _better than a taxi. _And _Google _is a word (within the math world spelled: googol) and the founders of Google picked it because of it's meaning- _A googol is 10 to the 100th power (which is 1 followed by 100 zeros). A googol is larger than the number of elementary particles in the universe, which amount to only 10 to the 80th power.
> _
> However, I do agree with you that TK is not an evil Nazi nor did he name Uber, _Uber _for any nefarious reasons.


"Googol" is a word. "Google" is not. "Über" is a word. "Uber" is not.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

ChinatownJake said:


> One of the biggest mistakes Uber has made is not differentiating between drivers who've been doing it for years. vs. those who have been doing it for weeks. A huge, missed opportunity to reward that time of service with, say, more leeway when it comes to rejecting rides (and other perks).


Yeah because our riders have so many good things to say about all those "experienced" cab drivers out there!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> You are stating that as fact. It's easy to claim anything you feel like you make, or to comfort yourself, or whatever. Can you back up your claims with proof?
> 
> Here's what that requires (along with honesty):
> 
> ...


How about you post some real ex


Greguzzi said:


> Look: Anyone can claim to make whatever he thinks he makes. Do you have the courage to post numbers to prove your claims?
> 
> What rates are you driving at and what is the minimum wage in your state?
> 
> ...


How about you post some proof of how you can't make minimum wage? I'd be glad to pick apart your bad math and show you where to cut costs and be more effective so that you can earn more by actually being smart.


----------



## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> THose earnings in the SD market could only be achieved at 22 hours online during the guaranteed mins of $25 per hour ($20 after ubers take) Unless the driver got very lucky with some big surges > highly unlikely in SD, over $400 in 2 weekend nights is practically impossible, even if they were busy nights. THe chances that you make just over $100 per night are way more likely for this market. Lesson to SD drivers, move to LA! really why do you live in SD anyway> it's just as expensive and 90% of you fools don't even SURF!


So, just because DriverX is incapabale means everyone is!


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Do your own work. I have nothing to prove to you.


I do my own work. You keep saying you have posted proof elsewhere. Are you really suggesting I sort through hundreds of threads and thousands of responses to find your proof? That's just crazy. You know exactly where you posted the proof you speak of. None of us believe you. We all know you are not a real driver. We all know you were planted here by Uber. Your inability to show your own proof doesn't help your cause.


----------



## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> yes but Uber depends on the surge for most of its profit potential. Uber gets paid on EVERY surge ride taken unlike how the driver gets lucky and might get one or 2 surges on a busy night but half the time they are less than 2x. Last week I had 60 cents in surge! I cancelled a lot of surge rides because It was more profitable to work the guaranteed mins than take my chance driving a surge fair for an extra $3~ potential profit. Without the guarantees I'll just go back to cherry picking long rides and ACRO for surge.
> 
> Uber paid me out more in subsidies last week than fares! LOL don't mean to brag but that's the way you protest boys and girls! hit them in the wallet!! Too bad most of the drivers didn't figure it out until the last two weeks of the minimums... sigh, this is why we can't have decent rates.... stupid drivers or noobs that can't do math or understand averages.


You must be so proud! You're incapable of beating the guaranteed minimums, so you say you're hitting Uber in the wallet by getting all that free money for being a lazy piece of crap. No thank you. I'd rather do what I always do and go earn a LOT more than the minimum guarantee.


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

So I've been getting texts and emails about ignoring pings. They told me I would be placed on a 30 minute hold after FOUR ignored requests. Last night I ignored TWO and got put on hold during a 2.8x surge with no UberX available. There were only 4 other cars working last night after 10pm. The rider app showed no cars available about 95% of the time between 10pm-2am.

In what world does it make sense to take out one of your five drivers working a city of 650,000? The two pings ignored were 12 & 10 minutes away, and obviously not 2.8x. Our base rate is 65¢/mi


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> I do my own work. You keep saying you have posted proof elsewhere. Are you really suggesting I sort through hundreds of threads and thousands of responses to find your proof? That's just crazy. You know exactly where you posted the proof you speak of. None of us believe you. We all know you are not a real driver. We all know you were planted here by Uber. Your inability to show your own proof doesn't help your cause.


Your inability to know how to use this forum doesn't help yours. Click on my avatar. A popup comes up. Click for my profile. Click postings. Scroll until you see one of the many with screenshots or a lot of numbers. Not tough.


----------



## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Your inability to know how to use this forum doesn't help yours. Click on my avatar. A popup comes up. Click for my profile. Click postings. Scroll until you see one of the many with screenshots or a lot of numbers. Not tough.


It's true! The Internet is hard! Thanks for the tip! Keep spamming the forums, condescending us and calling us names. It really makes Uber look good. I don't have a "cause" in all this except to expose you to the people lurking on the forum who don't know better. Cheers!


----------



## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> It's true! The Internet is hard! Thanks for the tip! Keep spamming the forums, condescending us and calling us names. It really makes Uber look good. I don't have a "cause" in all this except to expose you to the people lurking on the forum who don't know better. Cheers!


Expose away!


----------



## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> And you're not paying all the bills to run Uber. You're paying to run your car much as waiters pay for their attire that's required for the position, cleaning that attire or replacing it when it gets stained by food, extra cost for shoes because they are on their feet all shift and they wear faster, etc. The riders are paying to run Uber when they pay the fare.


When did I say I was paying the bills to run Uber? And what does that have to do with your fatally flawed analogy? Almost every worker pays for their own shoes and clothing. I pay for mine when driving Uber, too.


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

Take him to Detroit!!!!!!! and drive...


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## rocksteady (Mar 19, 2015)

Lando74 said:


> So I've been getting texts and emails about ignoring pings. They told me I would be placed on a 30 minute hold after FOUR ignored requests. Last night I ignored TWO and got put on hold during a 2.8x surge with no UberX available. There were only 4 other cars working last night after 10pm. The rider app showed no cars available about 95% of the time between 10pm-2am.
> 
> In what world does it make sense to take out one of your five drivers working a city of 650,000? The two pings ignored were 12 & 10 minutes away, and obviously not 2.8x. Our base rate is 65¢/mi


It doesn't. They are impressively stupid. I want to hear their justification. It would probably be something like, "We want our riders to be able to get a ride when cars are available." oh, touche, Uber! Now you made that car unavailable to anybody for the next 30 minutes, which if so doing, leaves few others available, causes a surge--further frustrating customers.

Behold, Uber! Such a fine example of the rare speciman, "Businus Incompitus." This fast growing species gets it's initial nourishment from another parasite, Ventur Capitalust, but as it reaches a massive size, starts in earnest to work against itself. It functions contrary to any other species in the Businus genus. Seemingly hell-bent on it's own self-destruction, it shuns that which all other Businus species require to live--profit.


----------



## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

Wdsniderman said:


> I have pings every weekend where I arrive at the pickup and can't find the rider. They don't respond to msgs or answer calls. Sometimes, they finally respond with "dude, I got another ride". In that case, I leave the ping active for the five minutes and cancel with "no show". I can only hope this affects the rider's ratings as this practice is completely inconsiderate of the driver.


Rider(s) are only rated by drivers after completed trips. Cancels do nothing in the ratings games people play.


----------



## ATX 22 (Jun 17, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> And you're not paying all the bills to run Uber. You're paying to run your car much as waiters pay for their attire that's required for the position, cleaning that attire or replacing it when it gets stained by food, extra cost for shoes because they are on their feet all shift and they wear faster, etc. The riders are paying to run Uber when they pay the fare.


Drivers are footing the bill for the vehicles, including fuel, maintenance and, if they're smart, additional insurance. In addition to that they're paying for the access to the platform. 
Uber's spending millions in litigation and fighting regulation around the globe, and, per TK, a billion trying to buy market share in China. So your analogy of drivers not paying the bills is just a bit off.


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

rocksteady said:


> It doesn't. They are impressively stupid. I want to hear their justification. It would probably be something like, "We want our riders to be able to get a ride when cars are available." oh, touche, Uber! Now you made that car unavailable to anybody for the next 30 minutes, which if so doing, leaves few others available, causes a surge--further frustrating customers.
> 
> Behold, Uber! Such a fine example of the rare speciman, "Businus Incompitus." This fast growing species gets it's initial nourishment from another parasite, Ventur Capitalust, but as it reaches a massive size, starts in earnest to work against itself. It functions contrary to any other species in the Businus genus. Seemingly hell-bent on it's own self-destruction, it shuns that which all other Businus species require to live--profit.


It's all a vicious circle with Uber. They lower the rates, drivers quit, the requests get further away, drivers ignore them, Uber takes those drivers offline, there's fewer drivers, the requests get further away...

They have a whole business model based on supply and demand (surge) yet they set base price points which only favor the demand (riders), which lowers the supply (drivers). And they expect ridership to increase with a reduced supply of drivers. Did anyone at this company take basic economics and learn about equilibrium?


----------



## Nelson Mandela (Feb 17, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> I thought we are Uber partners.we are here to make . That doesn't mean work as a dlave for nothing. Just I machine you know a famous spot you get a ping . Driving for 7 minutes. Waiting least five. Drive to another 8 minutes to get 6. 75 on that uber gets 1.50 then you have 5.25 left from that uber take 25% 1.30 what you left with peanuts. 4 bucks take the time counts
> 22 you spending for 4 bucks. Gas wear and tear.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


----------



## Nelson Mandela (Feb 17, 2016)

I thought we are Uber partners.we are here to make . That doesn't mean work as a dlave for nothing. Just I machine you know a famous spot you get a ping . Driving for 7 minutes. Waiting least five. Drive to another 8 minutes to get 6. 75 on that uber gets 1.50 then you have 5.25 left from that uber take 25% 1.30 what you left with peanuts. 4 bucks take the time counts
22 you spending for 4 bucks. Gas wear and tear. Very soon Uber is going to loose loads of drivers.


----------



## rocksteady (Mar 19, 2015)

Lando74 said:


> It's all a vicious circle with Uber. They lower the rates, drivers quit, the requests get further away, drivers ignore them, Uber takes those drivers offline, there's fewer drivers, the requests get further away...
> 
> They have a whole business model based on supply and demand (surge) yet they set base price points which only favor the demand (riders), which lowers the supply (drivers). And they expect ridership to increase with a reduced supply of drivers. Did anyone at this company take basic economics and learn about equilibrium?


Amen. It's mind blowing to think with all the data at their finger tips they can't figure that out.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Coachman said:


> The problem is that on this board if you're not a flaming Uber hater, then you're classified as a shill or cheerleader. There's plenty about Uber to gripe about. But I don't have to gripe about them on every issue.
> 
> So let me ask you this... how may pings should you be able to turn down before Uber stops sending you requests?


You should be able to use a slider in the app to set an amount of distance you will travel for a pickup.

Simple solution. The problem is that Travis doesn't know how to innovate or improve the experience for drivers or the company overall. All he cares about is increasing ridership so he can get more investor money for the current ponzy scheme.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Lando74 said:


> It's all a vicious circle with Uber. They lower the rates, drivers quit, the requests get further away, drivers ignore them, Uber takes those drivers offline, there's fewer drivers, the requests get further away...
> 
> They have a whole business model based on supply and demand (surge) yet they set base price points which only favor the demand (riders), which lowers the supply (drivers). And they expect ridership to increase with a reduced supply of drivers. Did anyone at this company take basic economics and learn about equilibrium?


Where on earth do you get the idea that the supply of drivers has dried up? Uber's signing up drivers in record numbers.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Where on earth do you get the idea that the supply of drivers has dried up? Uber's signing up drivers in record numbers.


By paying them to join and lying about the money they can make.

Uber also has a ridiculous driver turnover rate as a result.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Where on earth do you get the idea that the supply of drivers has dried up? Uber's signing up drivers in record numbers.


Please cite your sources with hyperlinks. Thanks


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Uber also has a ridiculous driver turnover rate as a result.


So, tell me, uberdriverfornow, what is Uber's turnover rate? Huh? And how does it compare to other companies in the industry? Is it more or less than turnover in other service industries, like say retail? What? You can't back up your statement? Awww....too bad!


----------



## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> Please cite your sources with hyperlinks. Thanks


Says the individual who hasn't backed up a single thing he's said!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> "Googol" is a word. "Google" is not. "Über" is a word. "Uber" is not.


They couldn't trademark/copyright it unless they removed the umlaut. Otherwise it would still be there.

And I'm guessing they couldn't pronounce it either.


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## maxista (Dec 20, 2015)

Wdsniderman said:


> I have pings every weekend where I arrive at the pickup and can't find the rider. They don't respond to msgs or answer calls. Sometimes, they finally respond with "dude, I got another ride". In that case, I leave the ping active for the five minutes and cancel with "no show". I can only hope this affects the rider's ratings as this practice is completely inconsiderate of the driver.


It does not affect their rating. You need to read my thread, use these tactics, you'll make more and feel better about yourself. 
https://uberpeople.net/threads/how-...ubers-rate-cuts-using-ubers-own-system.60728/


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

maxista said:


> It does not affect their rating. You need to read my thread, use these tactics, you'll make more and feel better about yourself.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/how-...ubers-rate-cuts-using-ubers-own-system.60728/


Aaaah, I read your garbage. So your method of battling Uber's over the top obsession with cutting fares to increase ridership, which you see as stealing from you, is to steal from your riders and/or Uber and piss off as many people as possible, thereby reducing ridership and ultimately pushing Uber to be more aggressive to increase ridership. I'm glad you're not in my market and I sure hope, for the sake of your fellow drivers, that Uber has canned your ass. Actually, I hope they've figured out your schemes and filed charges for fraud and theft on every fee they've ever refunded because of you! Actually, I wish there were a way to provide your home address and a copy of that post to every rider you've ever had as a little experiment to see if it really helps you more than it hurt riders then!

You are nothing more than a liar, a thief, a hypocrite, and an ass.


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## maxista (Dec 20, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Aaaah, I read your garbage. So your method of battling Uber's over the top obsession with cutting fares to increase ridership, which you see as stealing from you, is to steal from your riders and/or Uber and piss off as many people as possible, thereby reducing ridership and ultimately pushing Uber to be more aggressive to increase ridership. I'm glad you're not in my market and I sure hope, for the sake of your fellow drivers, that Uber has canned your ass. Actually, I hope they've figured out your schemes and filed charges for fraud and theft on every fee they've ever refunded because of you! Actually, I wish there were a way to provide your home address and a copy of that post to every rider you've ever had as a little experiment to see if it really helps you more than it hurt riders then!
> 
> You are nothing more than a liar, a thief, a hypocrite, and an ass.


You think people are going to stop needing rides? You think that by working to decrease ridership I'm hurting drivers? You're very confused if you think that working for a company, in this day and age, makes you part of a "team". Corporation don't care about us, they *eat us*.

Uber doesn't know anything about anything that I do because I'm perfectly within the boundaries, hence why I go out almost every night and make a respectable living giving good rides to good people, and cancelling on idiots. If people disrespect me and my time, guess what? They won't get any respect back. If that makes me a thief, a liar, and a hypocrite, and if It makes you wish people would come to my home so they can violate my safety, there's something wrong with you man. You're twisted. In fact, you're an idiot, a good little obedient little slave and a fool. You're a complete, utter, fool. Probably a Trump guy given your penchant for violence against people who rebel against injustice.

Uber on b*tch. I'm about to head out to give rides to riders who are ready and on time to be picked up when I arrive at the pin, because guess what, I'm active and I will continue to be for the foreseeable future, until I decide otherwise.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Aaaah, I read your garbage. So your method of battling Uber's over the top obsession with cutting fares to increase ridership, which you see as stealing from you, is to steal from your riders and/or Uber and piss off as many people as possible, thereby reducing ridership and ultimately pushing Uber to be more aggressive to increase ridership. I'm glad you're not in my market and I sure hope, for the sake of your fellow drivers, that Uber has canned your ass. Actually, I hope they've figured out your schemes and filed charges for fraud and theft on every fee they've ever refunded because of you! Actually, I wish there were a way to provide your home address and a copy of that post to every rider you've ever had as a little experiment to see if it really helps you more than it hurt riders then!
> 
> You are nothing more than a liar, a thief, a hypocrite, and an ass.


LOL. When two d%uchetards collide . . .


----------



## maxista (Dec 20, 2015)

Greguzzi said:


> LOL. When two d%uchetards collide . . .


Wow what a substantive reply you just offered us all. Well done.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...High-Turnover-Rates-Low-Wages--336377121.html


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## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


if there are no other drivers around to pick up rider then it should be surging (high). but we decline far pick ups because we do not get paid to pick up rider. we only respond to positive incentives. raise the rates to get us drivers back on the road or high surge.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...High-Turnover-Rates-Low-Wages--336377121.html


There you go...

_Turnover rates, which are often used as an indicator of job dissatisfaction, was notably high for Uber, Lyft, and comparable companies, the study also found. About 65 percent of active drivers had been driving for less than six months, and 18 percent had been driving for less than two months._


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> So, tell me, uberdriverfornow, what is Uber's turnover rate? Huh? And how does it compare to other companies in the industry? Is it more or less than turnover in other service industries, like say retail? What? You can't back up your statement? Awww....too bad!


There are numerous studies on this. One was posted in this thread. Also numerous former drivers have came through my car and said they previously worked but only for a short time. I have yet to give a ride to someone that still drives for Uber.


----------



## Modern-Day-Slavery (Feb 22, 2016)

elelegido said:


> No. Once again you demonstrate failure to grasp the point being made. I am not saying that Uber is trying to get what it wants by reducing its labor pool. Rather, Uber is trying to get what it wants by threatening and trying to punish its own drivers.
> 
> Yes, Uber giving me timeouts will result in lower Uber earnings for me. But I am not complaining about them doing this. I simply switch over to Lyft. My overall earnings may or may not be slightly lower overall because of it, but so be it. Whatever small difference in overall earnings may result from this, it is not large enough to force me into being bossed around by Uber. I can also choose to remove myself from the Uber labor pool for any other reason I choose. Maybe I don't like the pickup location, or the rider's rating, or maybe I want to stop for a coffee. Again, this is my choice and will also result in lower Uber earnings. No complaints; no inconsistency in what I say; no hypocrisy.
> 
> No, the point I was making was that, in my case, Uber's naughty step has no deterrent effect whatsoever. Instead, it results in diverting part of its labor pool to Lyft, for which I am sure they are very grateful and most likely laughing their butts off at Uber.


I have an idea about how we can force Uber to change. This is the thread. Share it. Let's make it happen. https://uberpeople.net/threads/we-can-disrupt-uber.62929/


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> Please cite your sources with hyperlinks. Thanks


Funny, you didn't ask the guy who claimed the supply of drivers was shrinking to produce his sources.


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## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Funny, you didn't ask the guy who claimed the supply of drivers was reduced to produce his sources.


See my above post. Please cite a contradictory source or admit you're wrong. Thanks!


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> See my above post. Please cite a contradictory source or admit you're wrong. Thanks!


Please cite where in that article it says anything about the pool of Uber drivers shrinking.


----------



## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

I am talking about driver retention. Another poster already pulled the quote just a few posts above all this.

What are your sources? Why are you unable to provide further information?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> I am talking about driver retention. Another poster already pulled the quote just a few posts above all this.
> 
> What are your sources? Why are you unable to provide further information?


I've never made any claims about driver retention. I made a statement in response to a poster who asserted that the number of drivers on the road had decreased due to Uber's undesirable policies. My point all along is that the number of Uber drivers on the road continues to increase. The trend was enormously clear a year ago...


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd (Aug 17, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> I'm generally one of the few around here that says don't expect Uber to hold your hand, just shut up and work and earn your pay?


There is now "pay" involved in this GUering thing? When the hell did that start?


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd (Aug 17, 2015)

glados said:


> OP, the automatic time out may not have any effect on you but that doesn't mean it has no effect on everyone. _Plenty of drivers drive exclusively Uber_.


How could one possibly know this?


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> You must be so proud! You're incapable of beating the guaranteed minimums, so you say you're hitting Uber in the wallet by getting all that free money for being a lazy piece of crap. No thank you. I'd rather do what I always do and go earn a LOT more than the minimum guarantee.


LOL yes I'm very proud of forcing Uber to subsidize me for a change. DO the math and you'll see that at SD rates the driver is subsidizing Uber. So yes sir my lazy A$$ is sitting on my couch sipping an assortment of fine craft beer selections and collecting $25 an hour. When I'm not being paid to drink beer I cherry pick minimum rides because why da fruck would I drive more than necessary burning gas and polluting the environment and putting my car and my self at risk for an average of less than I would make by running the minimum?!

Do you have a college degree or a GED perhaps?


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Actually, über is a German word mean over, above, or across. Has nothing to do with "Nazi propaganda." It's a fairly common word. Your statement makes no more sense than me saying you're a Nazi because the word "the" is all over their propaganda! "Uber," on the other hand, isn't even a word any more than "google" or other made up tradenames. The umlaut matters in German.























the uber chef said, "the umlaut matters" LOLOLOL is that in the company handbook?


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> And you're not paying all the bills to run Uber. You're paying to run your car much as waiters pay for their attire that's required for the position, cleaning that attire or replacing it when it gets stained by food, extra cost for shoes because they are on their feet all shift and they wear faster, etc. The riders are paying to run Uber when they pay the fare.


WTF are you talking about??? We all pay for our own clothing whether we wear it at work or not. comparing the cost of work clothing and washing it weekly has no relevance to this argument. We are typically spending over a hundred bucks on gas a week plus oil, transmission, brakes, tires....


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## FBM (Oct 30, 2015)

WELL. It's funny. From the VERY START of my job. I accepted EVERY SINGLE PING! Yes, you read it right! Every single one. And they still fired me for 4.59

*F*ck them! They EXPECT US TO BE GOD. I am NOT God. *Tired of these whiny babies pax


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> How about you post some real ex
> 
> How about you post some proof of how you can't make minimum wage? I'd be glad to pick apart your bad math and show you where to cut costs and be more effective so that you can earn more by actually being smart.


Hey uberchef my weekly earnings right now are -$4.24 (yes that's a negative) and I put in 2 hours online LOLOLOL I'd say that's below minimum wage! clearly YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

Everyone here has done the math for our markets there are tons of threads on this forum with people laying it all out for you to see. Have you looked?


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> So, just because DriverX is incapabale means everyone is!


DriverX is very capable of surfing! and only driving uber when he can actually make a profit over minimum wage.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Modern-Day-Slavery said:


> I have an idea about how we can force Uber to change. This is the thread. Share it. Let's make it happen. https://uberpeople.net/threads/we-can-disrupt-uber.62929/


Heretic !

Saboteur !


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

FBM said:


> WELL. It's funny. From the VERY START of my job. I accepted EVERY SINGLE PING! Yes, you read it right! Every single one. And they still fired me for 4.59
> 
> *F*ck them! They EXPECT US TO BE GOD. I am NOT God. *Tired of these whiny babies pax


It's tough to keep your ratings high when your new and don't have many trips and drive the night show. Probably better to stick to day hours until you have a few hundred trips. When I was a noob I slipped to a 4.64 before I figured out not to work after midnight. My ratings have slowly climbed back to a comfortable 4.8


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

FBM said:


> WELL. It's funny. From the VERY START of my job. I accepted EVERY SINGLE PING! Yes, you read it right! Every single one. And they still fired me for 4.59
> 
> *F*ck them! They EXPECT US TO BE GOD. I am NOT God. *Tired of these whiny babies pax


The reward of catering to the unwashed masses.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DriverX said:


> View attachment 29301
> View attachment 29302
> View attachment 29303
> 
> ...


Ohhhhh.
The "Brotherhood" poster collection.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> There is now "pay" involved in this GUering thing? When the hell did that start?


Shhhhhh . . .
Or they will all want it now.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> You should be able to use a slider in the app to set an amount of distance you will travel for a pickup.
> 
> Simple solution. The problem is that Travis doesn't know how to innovate or improve the experience for drivers or the company overall. All he cares about is increasing ridership so he can get more investor money for the current ponzy scheme.


Yes sir, it's not a Ponzi scheme though its the typical Tech company pump and dump. TK is beholden to the VCs only. They are his customers. His job is to create the biggest valuation possible for an IPO. Then all the VCs can sell their unrestricted stock at the bell and hit the biggest Wall Street surge they can get. This is SOP for "Tech" companies.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

FBM said:


> WELL. It's funny. From the VERY START of my job. I accepted EVERY SINGLE PING! Yes, you read it right! Every single one. And they still fired me for 4.59
> 
> *F*ck them! They EXPECT US TO BE GOD. I am NOT God. *Tired of these whiny babies pax


Maybe you can take their course to get back in as a driver. If you do, remember that accepting every ping does, for some drivers, lead to lower ratings and eventual deactivation.

Within a short time of starting to drive, my rating was at 4.67 and falling. I then started a program of strict pax filtering and my rating rose week on week until reaching 4.85, which it has remained.


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> So, tell me, uberdriverfornow, what is Uber's turnover rate? Huh? And how does it compare to other companies in the industry? Is it more or less than turnover in other service industries, like say retail? What? You can't back up your statement? Awww....too bad!


Here ya go uberchef!

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Lyft-Uber-drivers-turnover-high-wages-low-6585229.php


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

D


UberLaLa said:


> I am not comparing Kalanick with Hitler. I am simply stating that both Nazi's and Fascists used _negative incentives_ as a means for motivating the masses to do/be what they wanted. I believe it was Chef Aarron that used the term to which I was responding...


Does any form of Government Not use negative incentive ?


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

fatherted69 said:


> New driver here. How long is the wait time after we have arrived at their pickup address, is it 5 minutes? Today I texted the PAX 2 minutes after I arrived to say I'm there. He quickly he calls me and said I'll be about in 30 seconds. He finally comes about about 6 minutes after I got there. All for a short 1.4 mile/4:40 minute trip $5.47 gross.
> Should I have canceled after the 5 minutes?


Up to you.
Did you feel like canceling ?
Were you busy before that ?


----------



## Wdsniderman (Jan 2, 2016)

maxista said:


> It does not affect their rating. You need to read my thread, use these tactics, you'll make more and feel better about yourself.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/how-...ubers-rate-cuts-using-ubers-own-system.60728/


I read it. I did not like it.


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> Up to you.
> Did you feel like canceling ?
> Were you busy before that ?


ABSOLUTELY cancel. in SD that would have been a minimum fare with a $2.40 net before gas. so you are obligated by good business practice to put a timer on your PAX and take the 'rider no show' $4 fee becasue it's more than you would make for actually completing the trip. THis is simple economics, you are obligated to your company to not take unnecessary losses and make every job as profitable as possible. You just lost money on the trip. You could have made $4 and burned no gas or wasted no time. You should probably put yourself on probation or just fire yourself immediately.


----------



## ChinatownJake (Jan 3, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Yeah because our riders have so many good things to say about all those "experienced" cab drivers out there!


Sorry, I meant drivers who've been doing *UberX* for years, not other/longer forms like taxi cab. E.g., it's crazy to me that a driver who has been the App for multiple years and one who turned it on yesterday get the exact, same treatment and perameters.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

ChinatownJake said:


> Sorry, I meant drivers who've been doing *UberX* for years, not other/longer forms like taxi cab. E.g., it's crazy to me that a driver who has been the App for multiple years and one who turned it on yesterday get the exact, same treatment and perameters.


No gold watch for you.

Have a nice gold sticker.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

ChinatownJake said:


> Sorry, I meant drivers who've been doing *UberX* for years, not other/longer forms like taxi cab. E.g., it's crazy to me that a driver who has been the App for multiple years and one who turned it on yesterday get the exact, same treatment and perameters.


We pay 5% less commission on X, but that's it. I was able to opt out of UberPool, but I'm not sure if that was because of longevity or perseverance.


----------



## Modern-Day-Slavery (Feb 22, 2016)

Yes


tohunt4me said:


> Heretic !
> 
> Saboteur !


 I think so


----------



## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

secretadmirer said:


> Take him to Detroit!!!!!!! and drive...


Dooood, what is that?


----------



## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Coachman said:


> I've never made any claims about driver retention. I made a statement in response to a poster who asserted that the number of drivers on the road had decreased due to Uber's undesirable policies. My point all along is that the number of Uber drivers on the road continues to increase. The trend was enormously clear a year ago...


Thanks for citing your source. I think it is important to post evidence of our claims given how many people lurk on these forums. The truth is what matters here even if the source is a year out of date


----------



## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> D
> 
> Does any form of Government Not use negative incentive ?


Absolutely they do...but they are government, not a business.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> You work whatever hours you want. You work as many or as few hours as you want. You choose your vehicle, your maintenance plan and provider. You choose where you work. And on and on and on. You are an independent contractor.
> 
> A business can specify certain behaviors that are expected from a contractor and penalize a contractor when they don't do those behaviors.
> 
> ...


No. I don't want employee status, and neither do the vast majority of drivers.

Instead I'm looking for an app based dispatch system that displays complete trip information, and allows drivers and customers control over job acceptance and price. These first generation systems like Uber will be replaced by competitors who address these flaws.

Uber is not that innovative. They will collapse due to drivers going elsewhere.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

UberLaLa said:


> Absolutely they do...but they are government, not a business.


Both positive and negative incentives are used in business all the time. _We need 100,000 widgets by the first week in April and we'll pay you $5.00 per widget. If they arrive before April 1st we'll pay $5.50 each. If they arrive after April 7th we'll knock 10 cents off the price for each day they're late._


----------



## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Both positive and negative incentives are used in business all the time. _We need 100,000 widgets by the first week in April and we'll pay you $5.00 per widget. If they arrive before April 1st we'll pay $5.50 each. If they arrive after April 7th we'll knock 10 cents off the price for each day they're late._


Hadn't heard that one before today. 

Coachman, what is your avatar?


----------



## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

stuber said:


> No. I don't want employee status, and neither do the vast majority of drivers.
> 
> Instead I'm looking for an app based dispatch system that displays complete trip information, and allows drivers and customers control over job acceptance and price. These first generation systems like Uber will be replaced by competitors who address these flaws.
> 
> Uber is not that innovative. They will collapse due to drivers going elsewhere.


That seems like a likely outcome if somebody has pockets deep enough to compete with Uber.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Uber Kraus said:


> That seems like a likely outcome if somebody has pockets deep enough to compete with Uber.


Yes a lot of money.


----------



## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Both positive and negative incentives are used in business all the time. _We need 100,000 widgets by the first week in April and we'll pay you $5.00 per widget. If they arrive before April 1st we'll pay $5.50 each. If they arrive after April 7th we'll knock 10 cents off the price for each day they're late._


Good point...but what business punishes (negative incentives) it's customers?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DriverX said:


> Here ya go uberchef!
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Lyft-Uber-drivers-turnover-high-wages-low-6585229.php


The comments are surprisingly on the drivers' side for a change.

My favorite:

gunslngr Rank 89
It's not the "sharing" economy, it's the PIMP economy. Just like a PIMP, Uber puts buyers and sellers together, takes a huge cut (30% from the newest drivers), does none of the work, and if the law shows up they disavow both parties.


----------



## Suburban LV (Dec 27, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


If there are no drivers in the area... Perhaps a surge rate should take place?

That's how positive incentives work.


----------



## Suburban LV (Dec 27, 2015)

Coachman said:


> You're analogy failed right off the bat, because if Uber were a restaurant, we would not be the diners, we'd be the hired help. And a driver refusing pings would be comparable to a waiter refusing to service tables because he sized up the patrons and didn't think the tips would be worth it. After refusing a couple tables, the waiter would not be put in time out. He'd be fired.


Waiters are employees... And they are not providing the food they are serving. Uber isn't providing the cars that riders are riding in...

I'll certainly agree the OP's analogy wasn't good but it doesn't help to add another bad one.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

UberLaLa said:


> Good point...but what business punishes (negative incentives) it's customers?


I don't think you really believe your Uber's customer.


----------



## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Coachman said:


> I don't think you really believe your Uber's customer.


You're right...


----------



## Suburban LV (Dec 27, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Yes sir, it's not a Ponzi scheme though its the typical Tech company pump and dump. TK is beholden to the VCs only. They are his customers. His job is to create the biggest valuation possible for an IPO. Then all the VCs can sell their unrestricted stock at the bell and hit the biggest Wall Street surge they can get. This is SOP for "Tech" companies.


Would love to see it open at $30 and get pounded down to $5 by closing.


----------



## New driver (Feb 5, 2016)

elelegido said:


> No. Once again you demonstrate failure to grasp the point being made. I am not saying that Uber is trying to get what it wants by reducing its labor pool. Rather, Uber is trying to get what it wants by threatening and trying to punish its own drivers.
> 
> Yes, Uber giving me timeouts will result in lower Uber earnings for me. But I am not complaining about them doing this. I simply switch over to Lyft. My overall earnings may or may not be slightly lower overall because of it, but so be it. Whatever small difference in overall earnings may result from this, it is not large enough to force me into being bossed around by Uber. I can also choose to remove myself from the Uber labor pool for any other reason I choose. Maybe I don't like the pickup location, or the rider's rating, or maybe I want to stop for a coffee. Again, this is my choice and will also result in lower Uber earnings. No complaints; no inconsistency in what I say; no hypocrisy.
> 
> No, the point I was making was that, in my case, Uber's naughty step has no deterrent effect whatsoever. Instead, it results in diverting part of its labor pool to Lyft, for which I am sure they are very grateful and most likely laughing their butts off at Uber.


I totally agree with your point. I do this part time to supplement my income. I enjoy it. However today I got a ping the pax was 5 minutes away. Picked him up, dropped him off made $2.60. Next ping was 12 mins away. I went he was a no show. Waited for him to cancel. The next ping 18 mins away. I accepted the ping, I accepted so it wouldn't go against my rating. Took her 20 mins to cancel. Next ping, repeat of last one different pax. I just went off line. I live in a small city 20 miles north of San Diego. I get pings all day long that are 90 percent 8-12 miles away. Not sure where I'm going with this, it's just my experience. Does anyone else have this happening to the MOST of the time? If so what do you do?


----------



## New driver (Feb 5, 2016)

Chef Aarron said:


> Well, good luck!  Drunks are what they are. Can't let it bother you because the reality is that they are a big part of the income you'll earn. There are only two things I ever let cause me any annoyance - messing up my car and being violent. Everything else, just let it roll off your back or you'll end up being a bitter jerk like most of the people on here!
> 
> As a learning experience, don't pay an ounce of attention to about 90% of what's on this forum. Seems it is a place for drivers who can't cut it because they don't know what they're doing to complain because it is easier to blame Uber and riders than it is to actually hone their strategies. And it's a lot of cab drivers here who are just trying to discourage because they want Uber gone and it is in their self interest to paint an ugly picture.
> 
> ...


So YOU know what your doing ,and everyone else can't swipe start trip and complete trip? Get over yourself. You are no better than any driver out there. We all had to pass the same criteria. Then we pick people up and drive them. We are trying to make sense of what started out as ride share, and seems to have into drive or else! These are reall concerns regarding real situations.


----------



## UberXslave1225 (Feb 25, 2016)

New driver said:


> I totally agree with your point. I do this part time to supplement my income. I enjoy it. However today I got a ping the pax was 5 minutes away. Picked him up, dropped him off made $2.60. Next ping was 12 mins away. I went he was a no show. Waited for him to cancel. The next ping 18 mins away. I accepted the ping, I accepted so it wouldn't go against my rating. Took her 20 mins to cancel. Next ping, repeat of last one different pax. I just went off line. I live in a small city 20 miles north of San Diego. I get pings all day long that are 90 percent 8-12 miles away. Not sure where I'm going with this, it's just my experience. Does anyone else have this happening to the MOST of the time? If so what do you do?


Hi! And welcome I am a new driver making extra side income too! I have the same problem but I have just been lucky most times. I live dead center 30min from 3 busy downtowns in Michigan so usually one of the fares eventually takes me out to better rides and surge zones. When I see a distant fare request pop up I will decline (rarely) depending on the area and likelihood of a 2mile fare I just drove 7 miles to get to. Generally, I try not to let my en route time exceed my time driving the fare. I also offer to make extra stops when people enter my vehicle to help boost fares and ratings. If the client needs a bank stop or wants fast food that's up to 10 min added to their travel especially during surge! I know it is more profitable to pick up as many fares as fast as possible but I've had several riders complain about indignant drivers frustrated at making 2 or 3 extra stops. Not to mention my first week driving I made $45 driving a group of 4 clients to about 10 different locations over the course of a whole hour.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


POST # 2/Chef Aarron: I ...A L W A Y S
"Diacourage"
Mindless Behavior by Pesky PAX !


----------



## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

New driver said:


> I totally agree with your point. I do this part time to supplement my income. I enjoy it. However today I got a ping the pax was 5 minutes away. Picked him up, dropped him off made $2.60. Next ping was 12 mins away. I went he was a no show. Waited for him to cancel. The next ping 18 mins away. I accepted the ping, I accepted so it wouldn't go against my rating. Took her 20 mins to cancel. Next ping, repeat of last one different pax. I just went off line. I live in a small city 20 miles north of San Diego. I get pings all day long that are 90 percent 8-12 miles away. Not sure where I'm going with this, it's just my experience. Does anyone else have this happening to the MOST of the time? If so what do you do?


Search for ACRO. It's been pretty well discussed throughout the forums.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Suburban LV said:


> I'll certainly agree the OP's analogy wasn't good but it doesn't help to add another bad one.


LOL, of course my analogy of drivers as customers is inaccurate. It looks like a few people didn't get it. To clarify, the analogy is parody; a satirical, tongue in cheek statement on Uber's duplicity of claiming that we drivers are its customers to the press and then treating drivers like lackeys when it thinks nobody's looking.

Of course, no driver should ever believe the Uberspeak about us being their customers


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Greguzzi said:


> Post the screenshots and the numbers asked for or it didn't happen.


POST # 147/Greguzzi: Sing it, Brother!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

GILD said:


> ahh, so much better, chef Aarron on ignore. $15 net an hour and taking all his pings, sure. just click him and , boom, selected ignore!
> If I want Uber lies, ill just look at my pool pings that are 1 min away.


POST # [email protected]/GILD: A wise choice!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

UberLaLa said:


> Aarrogant too!


POST #:167/UberLaLa: I see what you
"DID" there!
#@@bsolute @@$$backwards

Bison Chortling !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

DriverX said:


> Your absolutely right there are a ton of things Uber could do to make it a more pleasant and profitable experience for everyone, but Uber doesn't care about pax or drivers, uber cares about pleasing it's investors. It's a "tech" company built on VC money and beholden to the VCs. They chase numbers like Month over month rides and surge rate returns to prove how clever they are and when it doesn't work they blame the drivers for being the out lying variable that interferes. A company commited to maintianing a safe and reliable work force would be taking longer view approaches to solving issues like not enough drivers on peaks or too many on slow hours or too many short trips being canceled by eliminating the reasons these things happen.
> 
> A sliding mile rate would be a very easy fix to the tiny minimum fares. The further you go the cheaper it gets. The pax are getting essentially free trips when their cost is less than $10. Most people who drive themselves, after you factor in the cost of the vehicle and cost to operate and maintain it will probably pay more than $10 per trip they take over the life of their vehicle. SO by making it cheaper to own a car Uber is saying here is free transportation but it isn't becasue they are getting the drivers to subsidize it. clever eh, I don't think it was something anyone at uber was smart enough to intend to do but it just sorted fell into the hands of some extremely greedy and evil spirited people. I mean obviously they named the friggin company UBER, straight outta the Nazi propaganda handbook.


POST # 175/DriverX: J A H W O H L !
Arbeit fur FREI...
D U M B K O F F ...Kakanicky Uber Alles.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

UberLaLa said:


> Your constant barrage of stop complaining is pointing it's nasty other fingers back at you Chef Aarron. If you don't like this thread/board, don't visit it. EzPz


POST #:187/UberLaLa: This "Dog with
Distemper" wouldn't
last a DAY in the TWITTERVERSE...where
"Full Utilization" of the English Language
is Appreciated AND Encouraged!

MentoringBison: Keeping.It.100%.REAL!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Uber Kraus said:


> I do my own work. You keep saying you have posted proof elsewhere. Are you really suggesting I sort through hundreds of threads and thousands of responses to find your proof? That's just crazy. You know exactly where you posted the proof you speak of. None of us believe you. We all know you are not a real driver. We all know you were planted here by Uber. Your inability to show your own proof doesn't help your cause.


POST # 192/Uber Kraus: What was that?
Sounded like Darrell
Dawkins EXPLODING an NBA Backboard:

B-B-B-B-B-B-B O O Y A H !


----------



## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 192/Uber Kraus: What was that?
> Sounded like Darrell
> Dawkins EXPLODING an NBA Backboard:
> 
> B-B-B-B-B-B-B O O Y A H !


Shaq Fu?


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Lando74 said:


> It's all a vicious circle with Uber. They lower the rates, drivers quit, the requests get further away, drivers ignore them, Uber takes those drivers offline, there's fewer drivers, the requests get further away...
> 
> They have a whole business model based on supply and demand (surge) yet they set base price points which only favor the demand (riders), which lowers the supply (drivers). And they expect ridership to increase with a reduced supply of drivers. Did anyone at this company take basic economics and learn about equilibrium?


POST # 203/Lando : A C H T U N G !
Criticism of his
Augu$t Exigency [may $Billions be Upon
him] Emperor @$$hat the Fist......ist.......
V E R B O T T E N ! All Hail The Kakanicky!

Bison: Don't forget the 1-Fingered Salute.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Nelson Mandela said:


> I thought we are Uber partners.we are here to make . That doesn't mean work as a dlave for nothing. Just I machine you know a famous spot you get a ping . Driving for 7 minutes. Waiting least five. Drive to another 8 minutes to get 6. 75 on that uber gets 1.50 then you have 5.25 left from that uber take 25% 1.30 what you left with peanuts. 4 bucks take the time counts
> 22 you spending for 4 bucks. Gas wear and tear. Very soon Uber is going to loose loads of drivers.


POST # 205/Nelson Mandela: Neither
My Ungulate Self, nor
Casuale Haberdasher would EVER work as a "Dlave" !

Mentoring Bison: What's a "Dlave"?


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

uberdriverfornow said:


> By paying them to join and lying about the money they can make.
> 
> Uber also has a ridiculous driver turnover rate as a result.


POST # 209/uberdriverfornow: AMEN!
Coming in a Distant
2nd Place to #[F]UberPilots for Rapidity
of Turnover ? Third World Sex Workers
with Renal Failure + Full Blown AIDS +
Ebola. Jus' trillin', heah.


----------



## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Where did the chef go!? Now we are all just agreeing with each other! I had a teacher in high school who once said if you are the only person in the room arguing with everybody else you are probably wrong.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

maxista said:


> You think people are going to stop needing rides? You think that by working to decrease ridership I'm hurting drivers? You're very confused if you think that working for a company, in this day and age, makes you part of a "team". Corporation don't care about us, they *eat us*.
> 
> Uber doesn't know anything about anything that I do because I'm perfectly within the boundaries, hence why I go out almost every night and make a respectable living giving good rides to good people, and cancelling on idiots. If people disrespect me and my time, guess what? They won't get any respect back. If that makes me a thief, a liar, and a hypocrite, and if It makes you wish people would come to my home so they can violate my safety, there's something wrong with you man. You're twisted. In fact, you're an idiot, a good little obedient little slave and a fool. You're a complete, utter, fool. Probably a Trump guy given your penchant for violence against people who rebel against injustice.
> 
> Uber on b*tch. I'm about to head out to give rides to riders who are ready and on time to be picked up when I arrive at the pin, because guess what, I'm active and I will continue to be for the foreseeable future, until I decide otherwise.


POST # 216/maxista: Please...don't hold
back? TELL'IM HOW YOU REALLY FEEL!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Uber Kraus said:


> http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...High-Turnover-Rates-Low-Wages--336377121.html


POST # 219/Uber Kraus: Bostonian Bison
Thanks You for
this "NBC Bay Area.com" Hyperlinked
Story of Interest to ALL the A-B TNC
Drivers among us on UPNF.

Bison Admires. Bison Inspires!


----------



## water4tips (Feb 17, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


Recently i cancelled after 5min on the curb.
learned that the commmision this time is 1.25 out of the 5 cancellation fee. I had to drive there, i had to wait in the cold.
why is the uberfee increased?
negative incentive for not wanting to wait for the uber entitled?
Wait til a company comes and takes only a flat fee for ride hookups, the only charges percntage for processing. My square reader processes for 2.5% just so u know how inexpensive the processing can be.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Uber Kraus said:


> See my above post. Please cite a contradictory source or admit you're wrong. Thanks!


POST # 225/Uber Kraus: Now, now....
his Mind is
All-Made-Up...don't confuse him with
T H E ...F A C T S . C H O R T L E !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> There is now "pay" involved in this GUering thing? When the hell did that start?


POST # 229/@Will_Iam_Fuber'd: S W E E T
J E S U S ! Tiny 
Helmet-Endorsing 2nd City Rodentia hath
returned to Smite NonBeliebers with
Common Sense and Selected [email protected]$$.

Mentoring Bison: Thank You, God !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> How could one possibly know this?


POST # 230/Wil_Iam_Fuber'd : Equipped
with Proprietary
"GodView" Software, glados SEES All,
KNOWS All, SCORNS All. He will Protect
#{T}Ruthless Leader from ISIS...AND...
The Nabobs of Negativity that I N F E S T
UPNF !

Bison: All HAIL Das Kakanicky !
☆ ☆ ☆ Arbeit fur FREI ! SCHNELL !!


----------



## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 225/Uber Kraus: Now, now....
> his Mind is
> All-Made-Up...don't confuse him with
> T H E ...F A C T S . C H O R T L E !


Literally laughing out loud


----------



## Ubernomics (Nov 11, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> I'm generally one of the few around here that says don't expect Uber to hold your hand, just shut up and work and earn your pay?


You get to work for Uber, we only work for pay. Let us know when you are about to purchase your next car. Maybe one of us will sell you ours. Hopefully your saving that Uber money for the next onnnne....your gonna need it! Lmao


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

DriverX said:


> Here ya go uberchef!
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Lyft-Uber-drivers-turnover-high-wages-low-6585229.php


POST # 244/DriverX: Bostonian Bison
Thanks You for this
Hyperlinked SFGate.com Article of Interest
to A-B TNC Drivers throughout America.
Dollars to Donuts, @KitchenKuttup will
deride the Facts as "Lamestream Media"
while sounding like a Wind-Up TRUMP-
GRUMP Doll.


DriverX said:


> ABSOLUTELY cancel. in SD that would have been a minimum fare with a $2.40 net before gas. so you are obligated by good business practice to put a timer on your PAX and take the 'rider no show' $4 fee becasue it's more than you would make for actually completing the trip. THis is simple economics, you are obligated to your company to not take unnecessary losses and make every job as profitable as possible. You just lost money on the trip. You could have made $4 and burned no gas or wasted no time. You should probably put yourself on probation or just fire yourself immediately.


POST #:248/DriverX: Is that what hap-
pened with
@Uncle Irrascible and his NONSTOP
NEGATIVE LOGORRHEA ?

Mentoring Bison: J E E P E R S !


----------



## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> If there is one thing that I hate in this business it is a cancel-upon-arrival.


Indeed.


----------



## ChinatownJake (Jan 3, 2016)

elelegido said:


> We pay 5% less commission on X, but that's it. I was able to opt out of UberPool, but I'm not sure if that was because of longevity or perseverance.


Interesting re: UberPool. And you're right, that is the one concession from the UberX end for driver seniority. I can think of a couple of others that would benefit them greatly, but have learned they just essentially ignore that kind of constructive feedback when emailed.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Uber Kraus said:


> Where did the chef go!? Now we are all just agreeing with each other! I had a teacher in high school who once said if you are the only person in the room arguing with everybody else you are probably wrong.


He may have been negatively pleased with all of the negative compliments he received.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> Where did the chef go!? Now we are all just agreeing with each other! I had a teacher in high school who once said if you are the only person in the room arguing with everybody else you are probably wrong.


It's known as message board "group think" and it's very common. When I sold on ebay years ago the ebay sellers' board was very much like this one. Ebay sucks. They screw the sellers. All they care about is the buyers. The rating system is broken and buyers will give you shitty ratings for no reason at all. The CEO is an evil witch. And if you dared disagree with any of that you were an ebay "shill" or "apologist." Nothing changes.

But what always puzzled me was, if these folks all hated ebay so much, what were they doing selling on ebay and spending all their time on an ebay message board?


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Ubernomics said:


> Let us know when you are about to purchase your next car. Maybe one of us will sell you ours.


B-b-b-b-b-ut doesn't Uber have all of these programmes with affordable payments so that you can lease-to-own your new vehicle? ...........and it's so convenient when they deduct the payments from your weekly payout.............and since lower fares means higher income, still you will receive a life-changing deposit into your account EVERY week!



Coachman said:


> But what always puzzled me was, if these folks all hated ebay so much, what were they doing selling on ebay and spending all their time on an ebay message board?


FeePay has the buyers, the other sites do not.

Uber has the passengers, the other applications do not.

If you want to sell your goods, you must go to FeePay.

If you want passengers to haul, you must go to Uber.

Uber is the FeePay of the ground transportation world.

At least Uber lets the drivers rate the passengers. For now, at least.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

The best thing that can happen to Juno is not having the booking fee that Uber and Lyft colluded together to institute, have an actual telephone support service, and basically continue to innovating to make riders AND drivers more happy(which is something Uber refuses to do). If he keeps that bogus booking fee off then the price will be less so he'll be able to get more riders, and with a lower commission he'll be able to get more drivers. It's a win-win. Also the competition will cause Uber and Lyft to rethink their bogus booking fee insertion.

If Juno does it right he can beat Uber and Lyft. Juno can be the Tmobile of ridersharing services. The more competition the better.

This company is already making news with their ownership-sharing idea.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Anyone know where to sign up ? I can't find anything anywhere.


----------



## Uber Kraus (Jun 10, 2015)

Coachman said:


> It's known as message board "group think" and it's very common. When I sold on ebay years ago the ebay sellers' board was very much like this one. Ebay sucks. They screw the sellers. All they care about is the buyers. The rating system is broken and buyers will give you shitty ratings for no reason at all. The CEO is an evil witch. And if you dared disagree with any of that you were an ebay "shill" or "apologist." Nothing changes.
> 
> But what always puzzled me was, if these folks all hated ebay so much, what were they doing selling on ebay and spending all their time on ian ebay message board?


And what are your conclusions thus far? I am genuinely interested.

Personally I think eBay and Uber can realistically only supliment income if you plan on living a regular life. Because anybody can do them, self motivated individuals without a better idea of their own, or in between better ideas, will try to push the limits of Uber or eBay. I think that will ultimately steal your time and even ambition if you invest too much.

In any case, putting an adult in time out is just plain moronic. I have been with eBay since 2001 and I've told plenty of buyers to take a hike to the moon. I have a 100% positive rating with over 1,200 transactions (1/3 are international). eBay loves sellers like me. I apply the same principals while driving and have thus far managed to avoid any nasty texts from Uber but I drive Denver and the market is still $1.10. I imagine as they tighten their clutches it will become impossible to justify driving for Uber.

Conclusion? 15 years with eBay and counting. Projected to last less than two with Uber.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Uber Kraus said:


> And what are your conclusions thus far? I am genuinely interested.
> 
> Personally I think eBay and Uber can realistically only supliment income if you plan on living a regular life. Because anybody can do them, self motivated individuals without a better idea of their own, or in between better ideas, will try to push the limits of Uber or eBay. I think that will ultimately steal your time and even ambition if you invest too much.
> 
> ...


Agreed. EBay's a long term business support tool; Uber's a short term, fast sinking employment option.

When I sold on eBay I got exposure and marketing all across the USA and Europe at a cost of 10% of revenue. Total bargain for me and I did very good business through it.

But eBay and Uber are apples and oranges. Uber profits from worker exploitation and skirting around regulation, while Ebay provides a marketing and distribution channel for businesses and private individuals. Totally different kettle of fish.


----------



## KevRyde (Jan 27, 2015)

Uber Kraus said:


> I apply the same principals while driving and have thus far managed to avoid any nasty texts from Uber but I drive Denver and the market is still $1.10


UberX in Denver was lowered to $1.00/mi x $0.13/min in early January.


----------



## Peppino (Dec 2, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


Which side are you on?


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

elelegido said:


> A few weeks ago I got a ping from an Uber pax very early in the morning. I ignored it as the pax was a 4.5, which made him ineligible for a ride from me. There were few drivers online and his ping must have done the rounds and got rejected by all of them because it came back to me a couple of minutes later. I rejected it again and went offline. A few minutes later Lyft pinged and I did not notice that it was the same pax. On Lyft he was a 5.0.
> 
> When I got to the pickup I discovered it was the same guy. "Man!", he said, "I couldn't get a ride on Uber. It took ages and then when I got a ride, the driver phoned me saying he had a flat tire and told me to cancel. I had to try Lyft instead."
> 
> This guy's Uber ride requests failed not because of time outs, but because of his perceived previous bad behavior in Ubers. However, it illustrates that Uber should not be arrogant enough to believe that it is the only option available to drivers, or pax for that matter. In the above example, if Uber had given 30 minute timeouts to all of the drivers in the area who rejected this low quality rider, all they would achieve would be to gift pax over to Lyft.


What did you rate him?


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> What did you rate him?


4, if I remember correctly. He was ok, although I did feel that he did not go the extra mile or make the ride a truly special driving experience worthy of that elusive final star for him.


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

elelegido said:


> 4, if I remember correctly. He was ok, although I did feel that he did not go the extra mile or make the ride a truly special driving experience worthy of that elusive final star for him.


So you rated him a 4 before knowing whether or not he may have generously tipped you? Are you sure you did not just want to trash his 5 rating? Perhaps you were only his second ride, now he too has a LYFT 4.5. I guess you won't be picking him up on either platform. I totally understand cancellations and such. But somewhat funny that we as Drivers abhor the ratings system, yet use it to decide whether to pick up PAX. When it is just as faulty in rating PAX as we feel it is towards Drivers. When I see the quality of many of the new Drivers I am not trusting their ratings of PAX. I think the lowest PAX I ever picked up was perhaps a 3. Picked him up to see what the scoop was. He was at the curb,not smoking, and he tipped.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

frndthDuvel said:


> So you rated him a 4 before knowing whether or not he may have generously tipped you?


Yes, that's the way it works for all rides on Lyft - you rate immediately after the ride but don't find out until the next day if they tipped or not. That isn't relevant to my pax though; I don't rate them based on tip amounts. If the pax acts like a ***** on the ride that can't be fixed with a few dollars.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

DriverX said:


> Here ya go uberchef!
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Lyft-Uber-drivers-turnover-high-wages-low-6585229.php


POST # 242/DriverX: Bostonian Bison
Thanks You for this
Hyperlinked sfgate.com Article of
Interest to ALL A-B TNC Drivers AND
Observers ....EXCEPT Chef Aarron.

As ALMOST EVERYONE realizes, the
Mind is like a Parachute: it only works
when O P E N !

Mentoring Bison: He's been gone for THREE
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ WHOLE DAYS NOW!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Uber Kraus said:


> Dooood, what is that?


POST #:251/Uber Kraus: Most likely
because the
Film Clip [yes...CELLULOID] was from
the Late 70's "Kentucky Fried Movie" !
Thanks, Lidman/secretadmirer.

I also enjoyed the "Undercard" Featurette:
"Catholic HighSchool Girls in Trouble".

Reminiscing Bison: Good Times !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

stuber said:


> No. I don't want employee status, and neither do the vast majority of drivers.
> 
> Instead I'm looking for an app based dispatch system that displays complete trip information, and allows drivers and customers control over job acceptance and price. These first generation systems like Uber will be replaced by competitors who address these flaws.
> 
> Uber is not that innovative. They will collapse due to drivers going elsewhere.


POST #:254/stuber : K A B O O M !
[NO....my Glock
didn't Explode] I MUST call attention
to the Good A-B TNC News of the ExPat
Israelis that started JUNO in Manhattan
AND the ExPat Russians that founded
FASTEN in Boston.
As Churchill said during WWII:

"This is NOT "The End". It is NOT the
Beginning of The End. It IS perhaps...
the End of the Beginning."

Bison: Your WWII History Minute.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

uberdriverfornow said:


> The best thing that can happen to Juno is not having the booking fee that Uber and Lyft colluded together to institute, have an actual telephone support service, and basically continue to innovating to make riders AND drivers more happy(which is something Uber refuses to do). If he keeps that bogus booking fee off then the price will be less so he'll be able to get more riders, and with a lower commission he'll be able to get more drivers. It's a win-win. Also the competition will cause Uber and Lyft to rethink their bogus booking fee insertion.
> 
> If Juno does it right he can beat Uber and Lyft. Juno can be the Tmobile of ridersharing services. The more competition the better.
> 
> This company is already making news with their ownership-sharing idea.


POST #297/uberdriverfornow: JUNO
MAY be holding
your attention now, but FASTEN has
a SoftwareLicensingFee of $1/Ride,
which they CAP at $85/week !
EbullientBison: GreenB-B-B-B-B-Back$ !


----------



## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

Sometimes cab/uber drivers have to deal with 
unsavory passengers. Here is how Bill handles
it.

The secretadmirer is chortling


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST #297/uberdriverfornow: JUNO
> MAY be holding
> your attention now, but FASTEN has
> a SoftwareLicensingFee of $1/Ride,
> ...


I just checked em out and it looks like they also got that bogus "safe rides fee" too and no minimum fare.

It's really not hard to make a company that can beat Uber but there aren't a lot of companies that wanna do that.


----------



## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

I love it when people come to this forum and brag about their superior accomplishments as an Uber driver.

At least 90% of those who have tried Uber, realizes it's a rigged game, with a horrible company, and a job left for societies losers.

There is still a miniscule minority of posters, who need to make themselves feel better by coming here and act like they are Uber professionals by chanting the mantra, "You just don't have what it takes to be an Uber driver."


----------



## Dierwolf (Oct 31, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


I'm going to have to chime in here. Uber has lowered the rates here now to the point we are almost working for free so now we have to be much more conservative on the rides we go get. We accept 100% but we look at how far it is away and cancel it depending on that. If I get a ping a mile and a half away, go pick them up and they only go 4 blocks, that's a losing deal. This is Uber's doing, it used to be I didn't care, I would go get anything. Also by adopting this policy Uber is pretty much telling you, you HAVE to take the rides, and in some states that may be illegal, your an Independent Contractor.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

secretadmirer said:


> Sometimes cab/uber drivers have to deal with
> unsavory passengers. Here is how Bill handles
> it.
> 
> The secretadmirer is chortling


POST # 311/secretadmirer: Well...........
Looky Here !
My Longstanding "Frenemy" & Previous
4th Notable [as the Maaaany Avatarred
Lidman] has Materialized from amidst
the Glorious Waving Fields of Dental
Floss in Helena, Montana !

Please keep The Faithful apprised of
your Contemplated Relocation from
Cedar Rapids, IA. to Portland, OR. ?

If you need a Job Reference for that
InterWebulary Advisor to Fred Armisen
for "Portlandia" please let me know.

Your "ALL Antics-ALL the Time" Persona
would BEST be Featured on TheTweeter!
I have had a GLORIOUS 1st week, garner-
ing 30+ Followers/40+ Following and a
"Like" from Travis-Deflator Sarah Lacey
[@sarah'cuda] of PANDO Daily. I DID
have a Dominatrix "Mute" me: same as
"Ignore" without an Electronic Gulagging.
Like #[F]Uber, TheTweeter has N O
telephone # for Customer Support.

To the UPNF READERSHIP: Please join
chi1cabby : 1st Notable
observer .. : 9th Notable & Moderator
SibeRescueBrian : Moderator
itsablackmarket
gregthedriver
ATX 22
and Doppelganger
Casuale Haberdasher

to "Put the Boots" to Travis' Micro Brass
Naddies, while the FUROR over "What'$
Wrong with Jason?" is WHITE HOT and
is Most Capable of Garnering $upport.

Mentoring Bison: Abides AND Endures.


----------



## Schwaeky (Feb 26, 2016)

Maybe I'm still looking at this through rose colored glasses as a newbie however I'm less interested in the employee vs independent contractor determination as if we are in fact independent contractors that Uber truly treat us as such.


----------



## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Schwaeky said:


> Maybe I'm still looking at this through rose colored glasses as a newbie however I'm less interested in the employee vs independent contractor determination as if we are in fact independent contractors that Uber truly treat us as such.


Uber doesn't treat their drivers like independent contractors. Never have...never will.

They just use the classification so the driver takes on all the risks without any of the benefits.

The courts have already ruled against Uber on this classification.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> At least 90% of those who have tried Uber, realizes it's a ... job left for societies losers.


Everyone who drives for Uberlyft etc is a loser?


----------



## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

elelegido said:


> Everyone who drives for Uberlyft etc is a loser?


Not everyone.....just 90%...
You read it on the Internet, so you know it's a indisputable fact.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> Not everyone.....just 90%...
> You read it on the Internet, so you know it's a indisputable fact.


Naturally. Still an unexpectedly high percentage though.


----------



## USArmy31B30 (Oct 30, 2015)

Let them time you out, who gives a [email protected] if you have to wait? Unless it's surging lol


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> At least 90% of those who have tried Uber, realizes it's a rigged game, with a horrible company, and a job left for societies losers.


So when you quit ubering you became a winner?

Tell me, why does a winner hang out on an uber message board with a bunch of losers?


----------



## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Coachman said:


> So when you quit ubering you became a winner?


When I quit completely, I'll let you know.

Research has shown that even though you quit, a part of your soul is lost forever.

It has been speculated, but not proven, that the Uber app actually erodes souls through smartphone cameras allowing T.K. to absorb said souls into his body to maintain his demonic powers over his minions. (Drivers).

Film at 11.


----------



## überuntil (Jan 12, 2016)

OK, I just read through all the posts in this thread...whew! The use of the word 'incentive' in here needs a better, more precise definition. Like an earlier poster said, we need to go back to basic psychology for the proper terms: reinforcement and punishment. Here's a good link that compares and contrasts the types of each:

http://bcotb.com/the-difference-bet...einforcement-and-positivenegative-punishment/

To my understanding, these definitions clearly show that Uber is punishing drivers by putting them in timeouts. The action is meant to SUPPRESS unwanted behavior, not shape toward desired behavior. Comments?


----------



## Lost In Translation (Sep 18, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Ummm....because the most commonly refused rides are ones where there is more travel to the pickup which, if you're even getting that ping to begin with, also means a high likelihood that there would be no other driver close enough to be considered available and the trip would not happen and they would not get the $2.05 plus commission. A negative incentive via a timeout diacourages the mindless behavior of refusing trips.
> 
> How is this not obvious?


In a busy urban market, the availability of a driver to pick up a pax literally changes every few seconds, as pax are dropped off or drivers come online. If I get a ping 9 minutes away, I am not taking that ping. The driver who gets it next may actually be closer than I was.

Here in my market, Uber now brings the app to the front as I get close to the drop off and pings me for my next pickup BEFORE the current UberX ride ends. Not even a second between dropoff and next ping to go offline.

BTW, don't for a second think pax won't do it to us. They see we are 9 minutes away and cancel and re-request hoping to find a closer driver who recently became available. Or if a cab happens by, they'll flag the cab and cancel the Uber.


----------



## Pablo750 (Jul 1, 2015)

When you work after midnight on weekends when everyone is drunk and special events where you can have easy access, and takes time to find the pax, uber shouldn't do this, specially in houston because pax dont pay anything if cancel. This going to make things worst. It's been to times when I am doing everything to pick-up the people, but, wrong location, no access, too many pax for uberx. And I just finishing going home.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Lost In Translation said:


> In a busy urban market, the availability of a driver to pick up a pax literally changes every few seconds, as pax are dropped off or drivers come online. If I get a ping 9 minutes away, I am not taking that ping. The driver who gets it next may actually be closer than I was.


That may or may not be true, you have know way of ever knowing. But more importantly, you presuppose that your instinct is better than Uber's algorithm.


----------



## überuntil (Jan 12, 2016)

Chef Aarron@Coachman:

By definition, timeouts are punishment. They do not 'incentivize' desired driver behavior, they suppress undesired driver behavior. Any claim to the contrary is incorrect, and is not based on commonly understood psychological principles.



überuntil said:


> OK, I just read through all the posts in this thread...whew! The use of the word 'incentive' in here needs a better, more precise definition. Like an earlier poster said, we need to go back to basic psychology for the proper terms: reinforcement and punishment. Here's a good link that compares and contrasts the types of each:
> 
> http://bcotb.com/the-difference-bet...einforcement-and-positivenegative-punishment/
> 
> To my understanding, these definitions clearly show that Uber is punishing drivers by putting them in timeouts. The action is meant to SUPPRESS unwanted behavior, not shape toward desired behavior. Comments?


----------



## Seastriper (Jul 1, 2015)

I used to leave app on; this creating a opportunity for a rider to have an optional ride available. Timeouts now give me no incentive to leave the app on; this giving the rider NO CHANCE of getting a ride in areas with too few drivers.

UBER is destroying it's foundation and will crumble sooner than later...


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Seastriper said:


> I used to leave app on; this creating a opportunity for a rider to have an optional ride available. Timeouts now give me no incentive to leave the app on; this giving the rider NO CHANCE of getting a ride in areas with too few drivers.


Well, the likely reason there are too few drivers in an area is because there are too few riders in the area. Even the first-time drivers on the board come here asking where the "hot spots" are.

And when you've been in an area waiting for a ping for thirty or forty minutes, it doesn't seem logical to then turn down a request because it's 11 minutes away, does it?


----------



## Seastriper (Jul 1, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Well, the likely reason there are too few drivers in an area is because there are too few riders in the area. Even the first-time drivers on the board come here asking where the "hot spots" are.
> 
> And when you've been in an area waiting for a ping for thirty or forty minutes, it doesn't seem logical to then turn down a request because it's 11 minutes away, does it?


Ive been doing this long enough to know where I go to make $$$. What I was saying is when I was home watching TV (during non-busy times) I would leave the app on just in case a ping popped up close by. Since Timeouts and acceptance rates punish you for doing this now; and will send you 30 minutes away for an X ride---> that is one less rider that can depend on Uber as we the driver do not have any incentive to want look those extra rides...

No growth for new clients in the suburban areas!


----------



## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

Uber discourages acro and non accepts.

Collecting stupid pax fees gets me booted if too many in a row (as little as 2 will get a 10 minute timeout). So, instead of acroing or ignoring it seems to be the answer is to accept, force close app ( so you stop moving on pax app), drive for lyft and ignore the flurry of texts and calls that follow.


----------



## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> An example: Most of the ping ignoring advocates here would probably turn down a trip 15 minutes out at 4:00am near Regency Square Mall even at 1.5 surge. Turned out that XL trip was a $110 fare to the Omni Resort Amelia Island. Man was I glad I didn't listen to the so-called smart drivers here!


Most of the comments, complaints, strategies, etc. you will find in this forum are regarding driving UberX and not the other higher paid services like XL.

The point I'm trying to make, Aaron, is that you, as an XL driver, are more profitable and for that reason have a better and different experience, compared to most others (UberX) in your market and on this forum.


----------



## kideyse (Oct 22, 2015)

Just call the pax right after u get the ping and explain the reality of the situation. Find out where he is going and then cut yr own deal for $2/mi cash or square visa. Cancel the Uber whether the pax accepts or not, so the pax can't complain.
Exploitation is theft and it is ok to steal from theives.


----------



## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

Agent99 said:


> Most of the comments, complaints, strategies, etc. you will find in this forum are regarding driving UberX and not the other higher paid services like XL.


It's my understanding that if you have XL option and are the only driver in the area, Uber defaults to XL pricing. Can anyone confirm or refute me for this?
Aaron regularly is the only driver in his area, and this happens to him. It's a bit of a strategy to get a few extra cents per mile in the exact same vehicle that seems to be working for him. His work hours are often during times when he goes offline, then no cars are available. I don't have XL option, but because I work the same hours he does, I can see a potential benefit to Uber pricing this way.
Thoughts?

** edit. No way in H E double hockey sticks would I voluntarily bump it down to X, but this seems a logical move for Uber because it is taking a higher fare asset off the road for the trip, and they are NOT going to lose their share of the take, if you get my meaning, because his percentage to Uber is higher on XL... Always got to get their pound of flesh.


----------



## dirtnaprightnow (Sep 24, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Marry, Sirrah, you have it backwards. The odds favour the very scenario that I described. _*Ain't no tin foil hats about it, Jack,*_ I have seen and experienced it just the way that I described it for years. It usually plays out the way that I have described it. I have been in this business for quite some time. I type from experience, something for which there is no substitute in this business.


Time outs are good. More Lyft time.


----------



## Schwaeky (Feb 26, 2016)

Wow, I never thought I'd wrap up last night. Went out there about 5:30 after my wife got home from work and was out there getting pinged almost endlessly from that time almost until 12:30. Every time I felt like I was ready to go offline it was like instantly as soon as I wrapped up a ride another ping would come through. Not that I certainly can't use the money you bet you I could but sometimes you gotta rest.


----------



## dirtnaprightnow (Sep 24, 2015)

JaxUbermom said:


> It's my understanding that if you have XL option and are the only driver in the area, Uber defaults to XL pricing. Can anyone confirm or refute me for this?
> Aaron regularly is the only driver in his area, and this happens to him. It's a bit of a strategy to get a few extra cents per mile in the exact same vehicle that seems to be working for him. His work hours are often during times when he goes offline, then no cars are available. I don't have XL option, but because I work the same hours he does, I can see a potential benefit to Uber pricing this way.
> Thoughts?
> 
> ** edit. No way in H E double hockey sticks would I voluntarily bump it down to X, but this seems a logical move for Uber because it is taking a higher fare asset off the road for the trip, and they are NOT going to lose their share of the take, if you get my meaning, because his percentage to Uber is higher on XL... Always got to get their pound of flesh.


I drive XL and frequently get XL call in the outer ring suburbs. My pax tell me that no X were available. I also watch the Pax app to keep track of what's going on. If I see multiple Xs show up I'll go off line till that's over.


----------



## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

thanks for confirmation!


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Null said:


> Uber discourages acro and non accepts.
> 
> Collecting stupid pax fees gets me booted if too many in a row (as little as 2 will get a 10 minute timeout). So, instead of acroing or ignoring it seems to be the answer is to accept, force close app ( so you stop moving on pax app), drive for lyft and ignore the flurry of texts and calls that follow.


In other words you'll make it a miserable experience for the customer then you'll come here and gripe when you're eventually deactivated.


----------



## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

Coachman said:


> In other words you'll make it a miserable experience for the customer then you'll come here and gripe when you're eventually deactivated.


They'll deactivate for cancellation rate, acceptance rate and creating a bad experience as you indicate. If the only way to stay with uber is to accept low value fares then deactivation isn't a big problem.


----------



## Joe6666 (Feb 27, 2016)

Is anybody taking that new drivers class that they offer at the Tempe customer support office?


----------



## glados (May 23, 2015)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 230/Wil_Iam_Fuber'd : Equipped
> with Proprietary
> "GodView" Software, glados SEES All,
> KNOWS All, SCORNS All. He will Protect
> ...


I don't work for Uber. Please kindly don't make posts misleadingly implying that I'm currently affiliated with Uber.


----------



## fatherted69 (Feb 22, 2016)

Schwaeky said:


> Wow, I never thought I'd wrap up last night. Went out there about 5:30 after my wife got home from work and was out there getting pinged almost endlessly from that time almost until 12:30. Every time I felt like I was ready to go offline it was like instantly as soon as I wrapped up a ride another ping would come through. Not that I certainly can't use the money you bet you I could but sometimes you gotta rest.


What were your earnings?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Null said:


> They'll deactivate for cancellation rate, acceptance rate and creating a bad experience as you indicate. If the only way to stay with uber is to accept low value fares then deactivation isn't a big problem.


The only way you can judge the value of any given ping is to accept it and then call the rider to get the destination. There's no other way. A 14 minute ping might turn out to be highly profitable. I've had some of those. A 2 minute ping might be a dud.

But surely you can understand why Uber doesn't approve of this practice.


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## Schwaeky (Feb 26, 2016)

Made 135 on Wednesday. Last night, worked for a few hours before wife got off work, went offline for a few hours to spend time with her, went back out around 7pm, stayed out till a little after 3am, made 203.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

glados said:


> I don't work for Uber. Please kindly don't make posts misleadingly implying that I'm currently affiliated with Uber.


POST # 343/glados: S......U......R......E......!
And Goebbels
was N E V E R affiliated with Hitler...he
was merely a Law & Order Enthusiast !


----------



## Joe6666 (Feb 27, 2016)

I made $27 on Wednesday night


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## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

glados said:


> I don't work for Uber. Please kindly don't make posts misleadingly implying that I'm currently affiliated with Uber.


Were you previously affiliated with Uber?


----------



## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> You work whatever hours you want. You work as many or as few hours as you want. You choose your vehicle, your maintenance plan and provider. You choose where you work. And on and on and on. You are an independent contractor.
> 
> A business can specify certain behaviors that are expected from a contractor and penalize a contractor when they don't do those behaviors.
> 
> ...


As employees, they will have to make minimum wage and get mileage reimbursement, as well as health insurance. Plus overtime for over 40 hours a week. 
Then it won't matter if you get rides at all and how far away they are. Your profit is the same. Uber would have to take on the risk of unprofitable trips because they'll have to pay you 55 cents a mile and minimum wage even if the passenger isn't going far. On the other hand, you won't profit off surge.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

stuber said:


> No. I don't want employee status, and neither do the vast majority of drivers.
> 
> Instead I'm looking for an app based dispatch system that displays complete trip information, and allows drivers and customers control over job acceptance and price. These first generation systems like Uber will be replaced by competitors who address these flaws.
> 
> Uber is not that innovative. They will collapse due to drivers going elsewhere.


Problem is that Uber does not screen in any way to insure that drivers have the maturity and business skills to actually handle having full control. If we want Uber to provide us full control over every aspect of what we do (which os NOT really how any contract job works!) then we all need to find a way to stop some of the a-hole behaviors that many drivers, many who are on this forum, do! As long as their are drivers out there hellbent on constantly operating in every way possible to be counter to the interests of Uber AND riders, we are never going to have the control you desire and, frankly, will not be deserving of it.


----------



## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Peppino said:


> Which side are you on?


I'm on the side of actually applying an ounce of business sense to understanding the reasons Uber behaves the way they do instead of just bashing and complaining so that maybe we can work in a way where ALL parties business needs are met so that these discussions don't even need to happen! Fact is Uber is treating drivers more and more like children because more and more drivers are acting like children. On this specific issue, I am on neither side. Drivers have brought this on themselves because of their own lousy work ethic and approach that lacks integrity. Uber is behaving poorly in the way they try to address it. Losers lose. Unfortunately, when one of the losers is the company that provides and others like me the platform to earn, winners lose, too.


----------



## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Agent99 said:


> Most of the comments, complaints, strategies, etc. you will find in this forum are regarding driving UberX and not the other higher paid services like XL.
> 
> The point I'm trying to make, Aaron, is that you, as an XL driver, are more profitable and for that reason have a better and different experience, compared to most others (UberX) in your market and on this forum.


I run both and the overwhelming majority of my trips, close to 90%, are X. When you consider that I am still on the old 20% commission on X and 28% on XL, XL ain't that much more profitable especially in light of the higher fuel cost in driving a larger vehicle for all those X trips. The extra money from XL makes me closer to even on expenses compared to doing X in a sedan instead of a minivan. So, sorry, your argument doesn't really resemble reality of an XL driver.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

nickd8775 said:


> As employees, they will have to make minimum wage and get mileage reimbursement, as well as health insurance. Plus overtime for over 40 hours a week.
> Then it won't matter if you get rides at all and how far away they are. Your profit is the same. Uber would have to take on the risk of unprofitable trips because they'll have to pay you 55 cents a mile and minimum wage even if the passenger isn't going far. On the other hand, you won't profit off surge.


God help me if I ever make minimum wage after expenses! I'd quit! LOL! No they would not have to pay overtime because they would just turn off your access when you approach 40 hours. And no, they would not have to pay a salary other than to bring you up to minimum if your commissions don't get you there. So, while I'm out there making double minimum wage or more after expenses most days, as an employee Uber could tell me where and when I could drive to insure that they never have to pay me more than minimum. But at least I'll have insurance to cover the cost of that frostbite I'll get living on the streets next winter....


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> There is now "pay" involved in this GUering thing? When the hell did that start?


When drivers started removing their heads from their rectums and put as much effort into developing a profitable strategy as they do complaining. Guess you missed the memo.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> View attachment 29301
> View attachment 29302
> View attachment 29303
> 
> ...


I bet I could find some Nazi propaganda that has the word "the" in it (in German of course)! Must mean everyone here is a Nazi. Some people....

By the way, I love how you can't even understand internet slang, so you abbreviated "laugh out loud out loud out loud." Makes a lot of sense, that does!


----------



## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Hey uberchef my weekly earnings right now are -$4.24 (yes that's a negative) and I put in 2 hours online LOLOLOL I'd say that's below minimum wage! clearly YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
> 
> Everyone here has done the math for our markets there are tons of threads on this forum with people laying it all out for you to see. Have you looked?


Wow! You really, really suck at driving. How can you be so bad at it to be in the negative!? I'm really curious how that's even possible without really making an effort to be horrible. I mean, Monday, I made just shy of $200 in payouts with 225 miles on the car! I cannot even figure how I could have screwed up enough to have expenses huge enough to put me in the negative. Please share your talents!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> DriverX is very capable of surfing! and only driving uber when he can actually make a profit over minimum wage.


Says the driver who also claimed they lost 4 bucks and change in two hours. Apparently, only capable in your own mind.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

überuntil said:


> OK, I just read through all the posts in this thread...whew! The use of the word 'incentive' in here needs a better, more precise definition. Like an earlier poster said, we need to go back to basic psychology for the proper terms: reinforcement and punishment. Here's a good link that compares and contrasts the types of each:
> 
> http://bcotb.com/the-difference-bet...einforcement-and-positivenegative-punishment/
> 
> To my understanding, these definitions clearly show that Uber is punishing drivers by putting them in timeouts. The action is meant to SUPPRESS unwanted behavior, not shape toward desired behavior. Comments?


I think I pointed that out to the original poster. Told them to go read a psych book or something probably...


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Here ya go uberchef!
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Lyft-Uber-drivers-turnover-high-wages-low-6585229.php


Yeah. I've seen that one. Isn't it interesting that the whole basis of the turnover conclusion is that a large number of drivers surveyed are newbies? That doesn't actually mean turnover when the number of drivers is increasing, it means hiring. Duh!

Also, the article fails to compare their flawed conclusion of turnover to other industries.

One would expect fairly significant turnover anyway considering many drivers drive for a little fill in money and go into with the intention of it being short term. This is not necessarily a reflection on Uber but rather a confirmation of what we already knew regarding the nature of the business. Go into McDonalds or any retail store and survey their employees. Betcha most of them have been there less than 6 months, too.

So, sorry, DriverX, no win for you on this one without complete suspension of all critical thinking skills in interpreting the article.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Coachman said:


> Well, the likely reason there are too few drivers in an area is because there are too few riders in the area. Even the first-time drivers on the board come here asking where the "hot spots" are.
> 
> And when you've been in an area waiting for a ping for thirty or forty minutes, it doesn't seem logical to then turn down a request because it's 11 minutes away, does it?


It's logical, at that point, to accept and call the pax to see if it's worth the drive. It also depends what direction the ping is from. 11 minutes in the area you were about to drive through anyway to get back to civilization and it may be worth it, even if it's a short trip, so long as it's still going your way. 11 minutes further into BFE and a trip going 3 blocks would not be.

Notice that much of this could be avoided by giving the destination up front?


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> When I quit completely, I'll let you know.
> 
> Research has shown that even though you quit, a part of your soul is lost forever.
> 
> ...


Well.... this was a prophetic post.


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Wow! You really, really suck at driving. How can you be so bad at it to be in the negative!? I'm really curious how that's even possible without really making an effort to be horrible. I mean, Monday, I made just shy of $200 in payouts with 225 miles on the car! I cannot even figure how I could have screwed up enough to have expenses huge enough to put me in the negative. Please share your talents!


GAS CARD, duh! you get one if you drive a lot, now count to 3 and get a sense of humor.


----------



## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> GAS CARD, duh! you get one if you drive a lot, now count to 3 and get a sense of humor.


Yeah, I had one even when I had to run 200 trips a month to have it. Cutting to only 100 trips to keep it has been nice. Good to know it's there even if I only work like 45-50 hours and if I wanna goof off the other two and a half weeks of the month, I can.

Never been negative as a result, though. Hmmm.... I don't usually spend money I don't have, though. I guess not everyone is really cut out to manage business matters, though, so I get it now - you must suck at driving AND managing cash flow. Thanks for clearing that up!


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

DriverX said:


> GAS CARD, duh! count to 3 and get a sense of humor.





Chef Aarron said:


> I bet I could find some Nazi propaganda that has the word "the" in it (in German of course)! Must mean everyone here is a Nazi. Some people....
> 
> By the way, I love how you can't even understand internet slang, so you abbreviated "laugh out loud out loud out loud." Makes a lot of sense, that does!


Except "the" is a definte article and "uber" is adverb or adjective so there's NO real comparison between using those two words. Furthermore, using the very loaded term 'uber' carries a lot of historical significance. The crossover of the term "über" from German into English goes back to the work of German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. In 1883, Nietzsche coined the term "Übermensch" to describe the higher state to which he felt men might aspire. The term was brought into English by George Bernard Shaw in the title to his 1903 play _Man and Superman_. During his rise to power, Adolf Hitler adopted Nietzsche's term, using it in his descriptions of an Aryan master race.

Considering the history of the term and it's use in Nazi propaganda it was an interesting decision to name a transportation company Uber. Obey your master and sleep well knowing that the German train engineers were the last to be gassed.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Yeah, I had one even when I had to run 200 trips a month to have it. Cutting to only 100 trips to keep it has been nice. Good to know it's there even if I only work like 45-50 hours and if I wanna goof off the other two and a half weeks of the month, I can.
> 
> Never been negative as a result, though. Hmmm.... I don't usually spend money I don't have, though. I guess not everyone is really cut out to manage business matters, though, so I get it now - you must suck at driving AND managing cash flow. Thanks for clearing that up!


Clearly you never had a card. They debit your earnings directly if you fill your tank on a sunday the bill doesn't post until a day later so if you don't drive on Monday its a negative. You have been discovered, stop making yourself look foolish.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Clearly you never had a card.


Yeah, clearly. You found me out. And you said the negative amount was your weekly earnings on February 24, a Wednesday. If you haven't covered your fuel card by then.....well, there's just no hope....


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Yeah, clearly. You found me out.


We all know you support Travis and Trump


Chef Aarron said:


> Yeah, clearly. You found me out. And you said the negative amount was your weekly earnings on February 24, a Wednesday. If you haven't covered your fuel card by then.....well, there's just no hope....


There were waves that week so I surfed. I don't have to slave away in my car for 12 hours at a time like you drive. Chained to the steering wheel eating 7-11 nuggets and huffing grits on breaks. THat's your strategy pal. I only take surge rides on uber and don't log on until it hits 2x. You can have my scraps.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Except "the" is a definte article and "uber" is adverb or adjective so there's NO real comparison between using those two words. Furthermore, using the very loaded term 'uber' carries a lot of historical significance. The crossover of the term "über" from German into English goes back to the work of German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. In 1883, Nietzsche coined the term "Übermensch" to describe the higher state to which he felt men might aspire. The term was brought into English by George Bernard Shaw in the title to his 1903 play _Man and Superman_. During his rise to power, Adolf Hitler adopted Nietzsche's term, using it in his descriptions of an Aryan master race.
> 
> Considering the history of the term and it's use in Nazi propaganda it was an interesting decision to name a transportation company Uber. Obey your master and sleep well knowing that the German train engineers were the last to be gassed.


Yeah, I've read Also Sprach Zarathustra. Doesn't make it somehow a Nazi word. The subtitle of the book is "Ein Buch für Alle und Keinen," so I guess Alle and Keinen must be Nazi words, too! Richard Strauss wrote a tone poem called Also Sprach Zarathustra (you probably know the beginning of it as "Theme from 2001: A Space Odyssey" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL). Does that mean he's a Nazi, too?


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Yeah, I've read Also Sprach Zarathustra. Doesn't make it somehow a Nazi word. The subtitle of the book is "Ein Buch für Alle und Keinen," so I guess Alle and Keinen must be Nazi words, too! Richard Strauss wrote a tone poem called Also Sprach Zarathustra (you probably know the beginning of it as "Theme from 2001: A Space Odyssey" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL). Does that mean he's a Nazi, too?


I guess the significance of using Strauss as the theme was completely lost for you. WHy doesn't that surprise me. < rhetorical question please don't answer


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> We all know you support Travis and Trump
> 
> There were waves that week so I surfed. I don't have to slave away in my car for 12 hours at a time like you drive. Chained to the steering wheel eating 7-11 nuggets and huffing grits on breaks. THat's your strategy pal. I only take surge rides on uber and don't log on until it hits 2x. You can have my scraps.


And yet by Wednesday, you hadn't covered a tank of gas. Hmm. That strategy must be working great.

I've driven a total of just over 10 hours this week, not even to Wednesday yet, and I've covered 5 full 20 gallon tanks of gas, but only actual drove about 10 gallons worth. Shame my strategy is so much dumber than yours. I really wish I could make $20 on a Monday instead of the $190 I made. Counting all that is so hard....


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> I guess the significance of using Strauss as the theme was completely lost for you. WHy doesn't that surprise me. < rhetorical question please don't answer


Probably because those monkeys were Nazis! And Stanley Kubrick, too, I'm sure.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Yeah, I've read Also Sprach Zarathustra. Doesn't make it somehow a Nazi word. The subtitle of the book is "Ein Buch für Alle und Keinen," so I guess Alle and Keinen must be Nazi words, too! Richard Strauss wrote a tone poem called Also Sprach Zarathustra (you probably know the beginning of it as "Theme from 2001: A Space Odyssey" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL). Does that mean he's a Nazi, too?


You chided me a few posts ago for using the commonly used LOLOLOL abbreviation and here you are using it now. Some of us lead, others follow.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> You chided me a few posts ago for using the commonly used LOLOLOL abbreviation and here you are using it now. Some of us lead, others follow.


And you're not clever enough to realize when you're being made fun of. Wow! You literally just made me laugh out loud out loud out loud out loud out loud out loud. Really. Out loud.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> I guess the significance of using Strauss as the theme was completely lost for you. WHy doesn't that surprise me. < rhetorical question please don't answer


Not at all. I also don't miss the irony of Hitler using the übermensch concept in light of the origin of the name Zarathustra.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd (Aug 17, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> When drivers started removing their heads from their rectums and put as much effort into developing a profitable strategy as they do complaining. Guess you missed the memo.


It's really doesn't take much time or effort to complain though...and it's a lot simpler (and less expensive ) than pounding my car into submission for chump change. But do you bro, guber on dude!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> It's really doesn't take much time or effort to complain though...and it's a lot simpler (and less expensive ) than pounding my car into submission for chump change. But do you bro, guber on dude!


Doesn't take much effort to develop an approach that doesn't pound your car for chump change either. Does take some intelligence, though, which seems to be sorely lacking around these parts. If driving were pounding my car for chump change, I wouldn't be doing it. I'd quit - like many, many of the drivers here probably should because they're ill equipped to do the job.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> And yet by Wednesday, you hadn't covered a tank of gas. Hmm. That strategy must be working great.
> 
> I've driven a total of just over 10 hours this week, not even to Wednesday yet, and I've covered 5 full 20 gallon tanks of gas, but only actual drove about 10 gallons worth. Shame my strategy is so much dumber than yours. I really wish I could make $20 on a Monday instead of the $190 I made. Counting all that is so hard....


I'm well over $220 NET for Monday and tuesday still have gas in my tank from my fill-up yesterday morning, BTW in my market gas costs $2.50 a gallon, It's a little more pricey here in America's finest city than your market because, well you live in North East Florida, LOLOLOL. Looks like you should go read some of my posts on how to drive smarter if you think $190 gross for 10 hours over 2 days is so great. Most drivers will agree you're only average. and no your small hands do not make your pay check look bigger!


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Not at all. I also don't miss the irony of Hitler using the übermensch concept in light of the origin of the name Zarathustra.


but you totally deny the correlation of the name Uber chosen for a company that has not been shy about their mission to destroy the taxi industry and take over the worlds transportation system.

Travis isn't gassing Jews, yet, but he is guilty of poor taste in the least and some extremely unfair and illegal business practices. Keep sucking up that uber kool-aid buddy your exactly the kind of gruber Travis loves.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> I'm well over $220 NET for Monday and tuesday still have gas in my tank from my fill-up yesterday morning, BTW in my market gas costs $2.50 a gallon, It's a little more pricey here in America's finest city than your market because, well you live in North East Florida, LOLOLOL. Looks like you should go read some of my posts on how to drive smarter if you think $190 gross for 10 hours over 2 days is so great. Most drivers will agree your only average.


My $190 was only Monday. Didn't drive yesterday. I assure you in this market, with $0.65 a mile, that is well above average.

Just curious, to get your $220 in two days (I'd be embarrassed to claim that for two days!), what are your rates? How many miles did you drive and what percentage were with a fare in the car? What was your gross and what expenses did you actually count? If you're so efficient and effective, how did you have a negative payout halfway through the week back in February unless your just burning fuel for no fares?


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Doesn't take much effort to develop an approach that doesn't pound your car for chump change either. Does take some intelligence, though, which seems to be sorely lacking around these parts. If driving were pounding my car for chump change, I wouldn't be doing it. I'd quit - like many, many of the drivers here probably should because they're ill equipped to do the job.


THis from a guy who only pulls 190 gross in 10 hours and thinks he's a winner. Dude your making about $15 an hour, no one is impressed.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> THis from a guy who only pulls 190 gross in 10 hours and thinks he's a winner. Dude your making about $15 an hour, no one is impressed.


Yeah, that was a Monday night. Overall with the whole week in the mix, it's SUBSTANTIALLY more than that. In a market with $0.65 a mile and $0.11 a minute rates. If you mean that $15 an hour as my net, yes, that's true for that Monday night. I also have times like this past Saturday where I did $86 in an hour and a half.

Still waiting on how your numbers worked for that supposed $220.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> My $190 was only Monday. Didn't drive yesterday. I assure you in this market, with $0.65 a mile, that is well above average.
> 
> Just curious, to get your $220 in two days (I'd be embarrassed to claim that for two days!), what are your rates? How many miles did you drive and what percentage were with a fare in the car? What was your gross and what expenses did you actually count? If you're so efficient and effective, how did you have a negative payout halfway through the week back in February unless your just burning fuel for no fares?


Your gonna change your story? haha you're a liar it's obvious. I already explained my negative number from the gas card, go back and reread the post. I don't post screen shots here in a public forum that is monitored by uber brown shirts like you, because the header info can reveal your identity and a screenshot is not proof because any idiot with photoshop can alter it.

I've posted lots of info on how to be more efficient go look it up. IN a nutshell: I only log on to uber when it surges over 2x I run Lyft in the interim. I only took 6 uber fares for Mon and Tues 5 were surge from 1.7 - 2.4 the one non-surge was a stacked call and she was an easy pick up so I did her a favor. I netted $110 including tips on uber in 3 hours online the rest came from Lyft and took more time because it rarely surges so I have to make the dif on miles and tips. THese aren't amazing numbers for the SD market but they aren't bad either. I know what other drivers top drivers pull in my area and I average right there with them. No big deal, it's really not that hard to do. We complain because Uber is an A$$hole for cutting our rates and taking food off our table all so they can drive their own profits higher and subsidize their growth by reaching into my pocket. But your ok with that right? You think it's totally cool for you to show up for work one day have your boss tell you he's going to pay you 30% less than last week because FU Uber wants more money and they are going to take it from you. You are whats wrong with Americans. You're so afraid to stand up for yourself and speak out about it, that you end up cow towing to your puppet master and defending them like Travis' co-dependent beaten wife. You deserve each other, Chef Eva. LOL


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

No more posts directed at individual members. Address the topic or do not post.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Your gonna change your story? haha you're a liar it's obvious. I already explained my negative number from the gas card, go back and reread the post. I don't post screen shots here in a public forum that is monitored by uber brown shirts like you, because the header info can reveal your identity and a screenshot is not proof because any idiot with photoshop can alter it.
> 
> I've posted lots of info on how to be more efficient go look it up. IN a nutshell: I only log on to uber when it surges over 2x I run Lyft in the interim. I only took 6 uber fares for Mon and Tues 5 were surge from 1.7 - 2.4 the one non-surge was a stacked call and she was an easy pick up so I did her a favor. I netted $110 including tips on uber in 3 hours online the rest came from Lyft and took more time because it rarely surges so I have to make the dif on miles and tips. THese aren't amazing numbers for the SD market but they aren't bad either. I know what other drivers top drivers pull in my area and I average right there with them. No big deal, it's really not that hard to do.


I haven't changed my story one bit.

So, how many hours on Lyft, eh? Keep dodging the question. In the San Diego market, those are not great numbers. If I had done the same amount at your rates, I would have made a good bit more than you, even if every trip were X. Do you drive X, XL or Black?


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> I haven't changed my story one bit.
> 
> So, how many hours on Lyft, eh? Keep dodging the question. In the San Diego market, those are not great numbers. If I had done the same amount at your rates, I would have made a good bit more than you, even if every trip were X. Do you drive X, XL or Black?


OMG your numbers weren't for X? LOLOLOLOL

I'm done here, go try and impress the noobs with $15 an hour on select or whatever you drive. I suppose that's big money in the swamps of Florida...


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> OMG your numbers weren't for X? LOLOLOLOL
> 
> I'm done here, go try and impress the noobs with $15 an hour on select or whatever you drive. I suppose that's big money in the swamps of Florida...


I said even at X because I don't know what YOU drive. But, just to reiterate, at your rates out there, I would have beat your two day numbers in one day, so maybe there's a newbie or two that clear up for you why you're numbers are actually pretty mediocre despite your delusions of grandeur. Still waiting for those stats, by the way.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Since my weekly report just came out I'll go ahead and humor you with a screen shot. The 79.80 in misc deductions is my gas for the week, and that includes the driving I did on LYft that I netted over $400 on. I had a shitty surge rate on friday because I was going for the minimum guarantee that day, it was too much hassel so I didn't bother with it on Saturday with a good result. so pre gas that puts my at $23 an hour, not bad for any market especially SD. now please F off!
> View attachment 32174


Congrats! If you did that at my rates, it would be $16.61 an hour. Adjusting for the difference in rates, your whole week comes to barely better hourly than my Monday! OMG, that is just too hilarious! Enjoy your mediocrity! If it works for you, fine, but I sure wouldn't be content with so little! Just, please don't delude yourself into thinking that's some great above average number. It's not.

Really amusing, too, that you don't take anything non-surge, supposedly, yet your average payout is only about $10 per trip. You're a grinder! LOL!

Uber loves you! You fall for the surge AND you run nothing but mini trips! You're Uber's wet dream driver! Too funny!


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Congrats! If you did that at my rates, it would be $16.61 an hour. Adjusting for the difference in rates, your whole week comes to barely better hourly than my Monday! OMG, that is just too hilarious! Enjoy your mediocrity! If it works for you, fine, but I sure wouldn't be content with so little! Just, please don't delude yourself into thinking that's some great above average number. It's not.
> 
> Really amusing, too, that you don't take anything non-surge, supposedly, yet your average payout is only about $10 per trip. You're a grinder! LOL!
> 
> Uber loves you! You fall for the surge AND you run nothing but mini trips! You're Uber's wet dream driver! Too funny!


WTF are you talking about I took one fare one day fo$47 how is that grinding. You clearly don't understand the numbers. BTW no where have I said my numbers were better than the average top drivers in SD. Most drivers would love to net $311 in 13.4 hours online. Please stay in Florida becasue you are getting so much richer than everyone else driving for 65 cents a mile LOL

You said yourself you grossed $190 in 10+ hours who da F do you think that is impressing?? I netted $311 in 13.4 hours.... WINNING


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> WTF are you talking about I took one fare one day fo$47 how is that grinding. You clearly don't understand the numbers. BTW no where have I said my numbers were better than the average top drivers in SD. Most drivers would love to net $311 in 13.4 hours online. Please stay in Florida becasue you are getting so much richer than everyone else driving for 65 cents a mile LOL
> 
> You said yourself you grossed $190 in 10+ hours who da F do you think that is impressing?? I netted $311 in 13.4 hours.... WINNING


Nice! Delete your post and then claim different numbers. LOL! You didn't net $311 - that was before your fuel card and expenses. That was the payout. Big deal you had one big trip. You had 30 trips total, so $10.03 a trip average. At rates in this market, that would be $7.25 a trip! Oooh, such a heavy hitter! You work surge getting trips that would be minimum fare without the surge. Great job!

Now do this in just over 40 hours with $86 in tips and some incentives from Uber and we'll talk. Incidentally, the "other" listed is a cleaning fee that ended my night at 10:30 on Friday, so I prob would have made a bit more than that in payout had I been able to finish my night. Just so you don't have to think and because the incentives aren't showing for some reason, the before fuel card number plus the tips is $996, which adjusting to your rates is $1,379. Good luck! Let me know when that happens for you!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> WTF are you talking about I took one fare one day fo$47 how is that grinding. You clearly don't understand the numbers. BTW no where have I said my numbers were better than the average top drivers in SD. Most drivers would love to net $311 in 13.4 hours online. Please stay in Florida becasue you are getting so much richer than everyone else driving for 65 cents a mile LOL
> 
> You said yourself you grossed $190 in 10+ hours who da F do you think that is impressing?? I netted $311 in 13.4 hours.... WINNING


And $311 in 13.4 hours is $23.21 an hour. Adjusted for the difference in rates, you'd have made $16.76 an hour here. I made just shy of $19 an hour. Clearly you do not understand your own numbers. Working nothing but surge to get $2 an hour less than a guy that does very little surge. How embarrassing for you!


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Nice! Delete your post and then claim different numbers. LOL! You didn't net $311 - that was before your fuel card and expenses. That was the payout. Big deal you had one big trip. You had 30 trips total, so $10.03 a trip average. At rates in this market, that would be $7.25 a trip! Oooh, such a heavy hitter! You work surge getting trips that would be minimum fare without the surge. Great job!
> 
> Now do this in just over 40 hours with $86 in tips and we'll talk. Incidentally, the "other" listed is a cleaning fee that ended my night at 10:30 on Friday, so I prob would have made a bit more than that in payout had I been able to finish my night. Just so you don't have to think, the before fuel card number plus the tips is $996, which adjusting to your rates is $1,379. Good luck! Let me know when that happens for you!
> View attachment 32178


BS my payout was 231 so add the 80 in gas and its $311 net. The gas was used for all the LYfts I did too which netted over $400. I took it down because your the kind of gruber that tries to get on ubers good side by reporting drivers. It's all about hourly average. pre gas I netted $23 an hour I stand by those numbers as being strong for SD and probably most other markets.

Wheres the proof you did it on 40 hours? Half my money was surge 1/8 of yours was surge so you grinded for every penny of that 65 cent per mile. You grinded out $700 probably spent like 60 hours online and drove 400 miles but whatever, good for you. Your rich now go to the titty bar and blow it on lap dances.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> BS my payout was 231 so add the 80 in gas and its $311 net. I took it down because your the kind of gruber that tries to get on ubers good side by reporting drivers. It's all about hourly average. pre gas I netted $23 an hour I stand by those numbers as being strong for SD and probably most other markets.


No. It's $311 gross. If it's all about hourly average, I trounced you soundly when you adjust for rate differences. Incidentally, that was on 100 trips, so I soundly beat you on per trip average fare, too, even without adjusting for rates. Congrats! Keep chasing that surge to keep Uber happy while you still manage to do a bunch of low fare trips! Great job, buddy!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> pre gas I netted $23 an hour


Now that's entertaining! Pre-gas and net for the same number! That's the funniest thing I've seen in a while!


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> No. It's $311 gross. If it's all about hourly average, I trounced you soundly when you adjust for rate differences. Incidentally, that was on 100 trips, so I soundly beat you on per trip average fare, too, even without adjusting for rates. Congrats! Keep chasing that surge to keep Uber happy while you still manage to do a bunch of low fare trips! Great job, buddy!


BS $311 NET thats the net payout. I showed you the weekly report. You averaged higher per trip because you live in the styx where everything is like 50 miles a part. THat's why the Jacksonville rate is 65 cents. But you burn more gas and mileage and spend more time driving putting yourself at risk. I seriously doubt you made $100 in tips on uber but I didn't include my tips in those figures. I probably only made $20 in tips no one drives uber for tips, thats Lyft.


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## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

Please, children, can we please get back to the topic of this thread (Uber timeout strategy) and stop fighting?


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> BS $311 NET thats the net payout. I showed you the weekly report. You averaged higher per trip because you live in the styx where everything is like 50 miles a part. THat's why the Jacksonville rate is 65 cents. But you burn more gas and mileage and spend more time driving putting yourself at risk. I seriously doubt you made $100 in tips on uber but I didn't include my tips in those figures. I probably only made $20 in tips no one drives uber for tips, thats Lyft.


Last thing I'm gonna say:

First, net is what you make after expenses such as gas, maintenance, etc. Gross is what Uber pays you. Your $311 number is gross, NOT net.

Second, do you realize Jacksonville is a metro area of a million and a half people? The census bureau metro area is the 34th most populous in the nation. We are far and away the most populous market area in Florida! Not the styx by any stretch.

Please, for your own sake, just stop showing your ignorance. You might not realize it, but you're embarrassing yourself!


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Last thing I'm gonna say:
> 
> First, net is what you make after expenses such as gas, maintenance, etc. Gross is what Uber pays you. Your $311 number is gross, NOT net.
> 
> ...


No sh*t, I'm using ubers terminolgy of net as pre-gas net. I burnt maybe $11 in gas on those trips becasue they are shorter but they are almost all surged over 1.7x the rest of the gas was used on my Lyft rides. So you're right my net minus gas is $300 still better than yours. buh bye, don't be jealous


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> And $311 in 13.4 hours is $23.21 an hour. Adjusted for the difference in rates, you'd have made $16.76 an hour here. I made just shy of $19 an hour. Clearly you do not understand your own numbers. Working nothing but surge to get $2 an hour less than a guy that does very little surge. How embarrassing for you!


When I drive at 2x rate I don't have to drive as much or for as long so I save money on gas and miles which in Socal at $2.50 per gallon it adds up fast, that's a factor that drivers like you always neglect to consider. The other one is risk. The more time you drive the more risk you expose yourself to. Yea your gas is cheaper but you put a lot more miles on your car and burn through more of it. Are you so sure that doesn't balance the $2 per hour your claiming that is actually BS and this is just more evidence that my efficiency is better. Your not going to be able to convince anyone that one guy who drives at 65 cents per mile is doing better than a guy driving for $1.75 a mile, sorry the numbers just don't add up.

I'd rather be surfing than grinding out 10+ hour shifts, waiting in a 7-11 parking lot, and running my engine because it's Florida hot and I gotta have the AC on constantly. Sounds lovely. I do a 5-7 hour shift and dip in for surges from my couch. AC is only needed on the hottest days or highway driving, it really is true what they say about the weather here.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> When I drive at 2x rate I don't have to drive as much or for as long so I save money on gas and miles which in Socal at $2.50 per gallon it adds up fast, that's a factor that drivers like you always neglect to consider. The other one is risk. The more time you drive the more risk you expose yourself to. Yea your gas is cheaper but you put a lot more miles on your car and burn through more of it. Are you so sure that doesn't balance the $2 per hour your claiming that is actually BS and this is just more evidence that my efficiency is better. Your not going to be able to convince anyone that one guy who drives at 65 cents per mile is doing better than a guy driving for $1.75 a mile, sorry the numbers just don't add up.
> 
> I'd rather be surfing than grinding out 10+ hour shifts, waiting in a 7-11 parking lot, and running my engine because it's Florida hot and I gotta have the AC on constantly. Sounds lovely. I do a 5-7 hour shift and dip in for surges from my couch. AC is only needed on the hottest days or highway driving, it really is true what they say about the weather here.


How many miles did you drive top make that money? Counting your dead miles re positioning, driving to pickups etc. There is no conceivable way your $11 in gas is even remotely accurate. If you assume an average speed of about 30 mph, then you get $1.10 per mile in payout. Even giving you an average surge of 2.0, that's $2.20. To make $311, you would then have to drive 141.1 miles with a fare in the car, which in the best of circumstances requires at least 200 total miles. At $2.50 a gallon that you claim, $11 is 4.4 gallons. I doubt your vehicle gets over 45 mpg. And this is with very generous figures to try and make it work!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> When I drive at 2x rate I don't have to drive as much or for as long so I save money on gas and miles which in Socal at $2.50 per gallon it adds up fast, that's a factor that drivers like you always neglect to consider. The other one is risk. The more time you drive the more risk you expose yourself to. Yea your gas is cheaper but you put a lot more miles on your car and burn through more of it. Are you so sure that doesn't balance the $2 per hour your claiming that is actually BS and this is just more evidence that my efficiency is better. Your not going to be able to convince anyone that one guy who drives at 65 cents per mile is doing better than a guy driving for $1.75 a mile, sorry the numbers just don't add up.
> 
> I'd rather be surfing than grinding out 10+ hour shifts, waiting in a 7-11 parking lot, and running my engine because it's Florida hot and I gotta have the AC on constantly. Sounds lovely. I do a 5-7 hour shift and dip in for surges from my couch. AC is only needed on the hottest days or highway driving, it really is true what they say about the weather here.


I do not fail to consider the miles I drive. In fact, I am acutely aware of my efficiency. Just because you only drive surge does not inherently mean you drive fewer miles for the same money. It means you might drive fewer miles with a fare in the car, but that is far from the same thing. Controlling the number of miles driven entails limiting dead miles. This can be done in many ways including not dead heading if a trip takes you out of your preferred area, driving back to preferred areas by a route that maximizes your likelihood of a ping on the way, positioning in a way that limits longer pickups, etc. It is very possible that surge chasers like you drive many more miles than efficient drivers who don't stake everything on surge. What percentage of total miles do you have a fare in the car? What is your average number of miles driven to pickup? How often do you reposition to get to surge areas?

The one big thing that drivers like you fail to consider is that twice the profit margin means nothing if you make a third of the revenue. You can't pay bills with profit margin - that takes actual money. You need to balance the two.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> How many miles did you drive top make that money? Counting your dead miles re positioning, driving to pickups etc. There is no conceivable way your $11 in gas is even remotely accurate. If you assume an average speed of about 30 mph, then you get $1.10 per mile in payout. Even giving you an average surge of 2.0, that's $2.20. To make $311, you would then have to drive 141.1 miles with a fare in the car, which in the best of circumstances requires at least 200 total miles. At $2.50 a gallon that you claim, $11 is 4.4 gallons. I doubt your vehicle gets over 45 mpg. And this is with very generous figures to try and make it work!


I get 28 mpg 2.50 is average price in Cali but it changes daily, I usually find the cheapest station and probably paid 2.30. so that's 4.8 gallons or about 134 miles which is a pretty accurate estimation. Just give up, I can't believe I just wasted your time making you do math only to prove you wrong again.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> I do not fail to consider the miles I drive. In fact, I am acutely aware of my efficiency. Just because you only drive surge does not inherently mean you drive fewer miles for the same money. It means you might drive fewer miles with a fare in the car, but that is far from the same thing. Controlling the number of miles driven entails limiting dead miles. This can be done in many ways including not dead heading if a trip takes you out of your preferred area, driving back to preferred areas by a route that maximizes your likelihood of a ping on the way, positioning in a way that limits longer pickups, etc. It is very possible that surge chasers like you drive many more miles than efficient drivers who don't stake everything on surge. What percentage of total miles do you have a fare in the car? What is your average number of miles driven to pickup? How often do you reposition to get to surge areas?
> 
> The one big thing that drivers like you fail to consider is that twice the profit margin means nothing if you make a third of the revenue. You can't pay bills with profit margin - that takes actual money. You need to balance the two.


Blah Blah, whatever man I netted pre gas about $120 yesterday, I drove about 90 miles, I even surprised myself because I was all over the county, but I had very little dead roll.

I never chase surge! Where did you get that impression? If you actually read my posts you would have probably learned something. I only log in to uber when its over 2x surge and log off as soon as it hits 1.5x I run Lyft the rest of the time. So I end up in uber surges all the time or right next to one after I drop a lyft rider off. Or I look at the pax app and see if theres no x available in the area and then patiently wait for it to start.

A lot of drivers have figured this out already and are doing the same thing, if you paid attention to the pax app you might notice the savvy drivers in your area already doing this too.

You just assume you know everything already so you learn nothing new. and then you argue some losing point to prove your right when the whole presupposition of your arguement is that I'm chasing the surge. LOL That's uber 101 man NEVER CHASE SURGE let it come to you.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> I get 28 mpg 2.50 is average price in Cali but it changes daily, I usually find the cheapest station and probably paid 2.30. so that's 4.8 gallons or about 134 miles which is a pretty accurate estimation. Just give up, I can't believe I just wasted your time making you do math only to prove you wrong again.


So you drove 140 fare miles on 134 miles worth of gas and I'm wrong? Wow!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Blah Blah, whatever man I netted pre gas about $120 yesterday, I drove about 90 miles, I even surprised myself because I was all over the county, but I had very little dead roll.


You grossed $120. You netted $120 - 90 miles worth of gas - maintenance costs associated with those miles - 90 miles worth of depreciation - taxes on those earnings - any other expenses you might have incurred. Please learn the difference between gross and net.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> So you drove 140 fare miles on 134 miles worth of gas and I'm wrong? Wow!


I was off by 6 miles, you busted me man... wow what a effing idiot


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> You grossed $120. You netted $120 - 90 miles worth of gas - maintenance costs associated with those miles - 90 miles worth of depreciation - taxes on those earnings - any other expenses you might have incurred. Please learn the difference between gross and net.


I said PRE-GAS NET its plain as day. get a effing life


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> I said PRE-GAS NET its plain as day. get a effing life


It's NOT net! That is your gross. Get a clue!


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> I was off by 6 miles, you busted me man... wow what a effing idiot


No, you were off by 6 miles plus every mile you drove to the pickup and every mile you drove after the trip to position for the next ping. How can you not understand the simplest of things?


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> No, you were off by 6 miles plus every mile you drove to the pickup and every mile you drove after the trip to position for the next ping. How can you not understand the simplest of things?


I park and wait for a lyft or a surge, what about this do you not understand. I roll very little dead miles and don't need to take as many trips or as long of trips because I only drive uber surge. Plus it was a estimation, I not going back through it trip and adding it all up I know what I make and how I make it I showed you a screen shot and your obviously so stunned to see i wasn't BSing about half my money coming from surge that you are having a melt down over it. LOL get some sleep isn't like 6 am there. you must be an old timer working that am airport grind. keep grinding pal uber on and on and on....


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> I park and wait for a lyft or a surge, what about this do you not understand. I roll very little dead miles and don't need to take as many trips or as long of trips because I only drive uber surge. Plus it was a estimation, I not going back through it trip and adding it all up I know what I make and how I make it I showed you a screen shot and your obviously so stunned to see i wasn't BSing about half my money coming from surge that you are having a melt down over it. LOL get some sleep isn't like 6 am there. you must be an old timer working that am airport grind. keep grinding pal uber on and on and on....


Yeah, you sit and wait for a ping and then drive -6 miles to pick them up. I am not stunned about half your money coming from surge. I'm surprised that you can do so much focus on surge and make so little. To actually know your total miles, you would not add up your trips, you'd look at your starting and ending odometer. Your trip history is not going to tell you your total miles, it will tell you your fare miles. BIG, GIANT, ENORMOUS difference. You are a special sort of ding dong.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> I park and wait for a lyft or a surge, what about this do you not understand. I roll very little dead miles and don't need to take as many trips or as long of trips because I only drive uber surge. Plus it was a estimation, I not going back through it trip and adding it all up I know what I make and how I make it I showed you a screen shot and your obviously so stunned to see i wasn't BSing about half my money coming from surge that you are having a melt down over it. LOL get some sleep isn't like 6 am there. you must be an old timer working that am airport grind. keep grinding pal uber on and on and on....


You have no idea what you make. You know what Uber pays you. You can't answer a single question about what you make because you have no clue.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> Yeah, you sit and wait for a ping and then drive -6 miles to pick them up. I am not stunned about half your money coming from surge. I'm surprised that you can do so much focus on surge and make so little. To actually know your total miles, you would not add up your trips, you'd look at your starting and ending odometer. Your trip history is not going to tell you your total miles, it will tell you your fare miles. BIG, GIANT, ENORMOUS difference. You are a special sort of ding dong.


OMG you must have a dropped out of High School, you have the BIGGEST chip on your shoulder about your ability to do basic math. I run that shit in my head, I use an odometer, but more importantly I know what the averages for my market are and I make sure I'm beating them.

I know how to avoid the shitty rides and track my cancel and acceptance rate daily. WHat's your cancel rate? whats your completion rate? What's your driver cancel vs. pax cancel rate? Do you even know what I'm talking about?


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Chef Aarron said:


> You have no idea what you make. You know what Uber pays you. You can't answer a single question about what you make because you have no clue.


When I drive at $1.75 a mile on average I don't need to track every last penny. LOL

Have fun burning up that gas on those 15 mile swamp pick ups buddy. HAHAHA I rarely drive more than 5 minutes to get a pax. If you Jacksonvillagers figured out the surge you could be making $1 a mile!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Chef Aarron said:


> XL ain't that much more profitable especially in light of the higher fuel cost in driving a larger vehicle for all those X trips.


XL should be much more profitable than X. If it is not for you then the only possibilities are 1. that your attitude towards Xl needs improving or 2. you're not hungry enough / enough of a "go-getter" to make Xl more profitable for yourself. If you ever find that any aspect of Uber is not as profitable as it should be, it can only mean that you need to adjust your attitude - and as soon as you do that bountiful profits will follow.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

elelegido said:


> XL should be much more profitable than X. If it is not for you then the only possibilities are 1. that your attitude towards Xl needs improving or 2. you're not hungry enough / enough of a "go-getter" to make Xl more profitable for yourself. If you ever find that any aspect of Uber is not as profitable as it should be, it can only mean that you need to adjust your attitude - and as soon as you do that bountiful profits will follow.


XL is more profitable than X for the same vehicle or if you're one of those with the same commission for both X and XL.

When you consider that for me commission on X is 20% but XL is 28%, and you compare XL in a vehicle getting 20 mpg compared to X in a sedan getting 32 the extra profits from XL really just make up for the higher expenses on the X trips. Demand for XL in this market is also not high, so it is only very specific situations where XL Only works, so the higher fuel expense of the larger vehicle very much comes into the overall picture.

X rate is, at 30 mph and after commission, $0.696. XL is $1.116. But the fuel cost per mile at 20 mpg is about $0.10, whereas at 32 mpg it's only $0.0625. So, comparing doing XL in a minivan to X in a sedan the spread is only $0.3825 per mile. It only takes 11.77 miles of X with the higher fuel cost of the larger vehicle for the gain of each mile of XL to be wiped out. Basically, bottom line is if XL accounts for less than 8.5% of your total miles, you're actually losing driving XL in a minivan compared to driving X in a sedan. The higher base fare makes up for some of the difference on short trips, but that becomes less and less significant the longer the trip.

This isn't attitude or willingness to be a go-getter, it's math.


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

Chiming in here: I do not completely agree with Chef Aarron 's strategy, but for OUR market pretty close. And we compare trips and numbers daily in a sort of competition because I wait for surge a lot more than he does. Funny enough, we both average about 1.10 or higher a mile MOST nights. His records are insanely detailed and the only thing I question is his online/offline time, and that his odometer is broken. That's a joke., seriously a funny, not a stick in the eye. We often work the EXACT same market, and the only trick I pull on him is letting hi stay logged in and me off so we do t saturate the market. We notice sometimes when we swap, one gets what we know will be a long base fare or put us into a better spot, and THEN surge pops, which sucks when you are the base fare magnet... Lol.

I turn down/cancel more requests than he does, by far. I worry about getting the dreaded lockout screen, but have yet to, because I will throw one short pick up base fare in the mix to keep from doing do. They always kill my averages too, by the way.

My fundamental problem is that every trip we say yes to crap base rate, Uber takes as confirmation we accept these rates. With the number of true grinders in our market, it's tough to see surge above 2.1 except in a couple of rare circumstances and even then, the pax will wait it out until it gets down there, or they are undoubtedly taking short hops. Which is fine with all of us, because a 3x turn and burn is still better than a 0x turn and burn. My vehicle has better fuel efficiency than his, but he has XL at the rip off rate, so they are about equal statistically.

I may not agree with everything he does, but it works for him. That said, in a great high demand environment that was also saturated(St. Patty's) his ability to be XL cleared him out of the pack. We did the same number of miles almost to the T, I was offline a whole lot more than him, and until Uber adjusted a fare correctly to XL, from some overloaders, attempting to scam(and luckily he had a larger vehicle, so,didn't have to cancel and get jack squat like I did) I did same number of trips he did and made within three dollars of what he did. So I worked the X surge game to equal his XL surge game... It was, considering the INSANE number of online, no surge requesting grinder morons out there.... A profitable night for both of us in our own way.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

JaxUbermom said:


> Chiming in here: I do not completely agree with Chef Aarron 's strategy, but for OUR market pretty close. And we compare trips and numbers daily in a sort of competition because I wait for surge a lot more than he does. Funny enough, we both average about 1.10 or higher a mile MOST nights. His records are insanely detailed and the only thing I question is his online/offline time, and that his odometer is broken. That's a joke., seriously a funny, not a stick in the eye. We often work the EXACT same market, and the only trick I pull on him is letting hi stay logged in and me off so we do t saturate the market. We notice sometimes when we swap, one gets what we know will be a long base fare or put us into a better spot, and THEN surge pops, which sucks when you are the base fare magnet... Lol.
> 
> I turn down/cancel more requests than he does, by far. I worry about getting the dreaded lockout screen, but have yet to, because I will throw one short pick up base fare in the mix to keep from doing do. They always kill my averages too, by the way.
> 
> ...


As I recall, I beat you by a bit with tips! LOL! Just teasing. ;-)


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

No. You did not. I made more I tips than you did. Lol


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

And if you did, then I squashed your per mile rate. Lol. Retract your statement. Haha


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

JaxUbermom said:


> And if you did, then I squashed your per mile rate. Lol. Retract your statement. Haha


LOL!


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

glados said:


> OP, the automatic time out may not have any effect on you but that doesn't mean it has no effect on everyone. Plenty of drivers drive exclusively Uber.


All timeout do is create surge.


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## Chef Aarron (Dec 22, 2015)

DriverX said:


> I park and wait for a lyft or a surge, what about this do you not understand. I roll very little dead miles and don't need to take as many trips or as long of trips because I only drive uber surge. Plus it was a estimation, I not going back through it trip and adding it all up I know what I make and how I make it I showed you a screen shot and your obviously so stunned to see i wasn't BSing about half my money coming from surge that you are having a melt down over it. LOL get some sleep isn't like 6 am there. you must be an old timer working that am airport grind. keep grinding pal uber on and on and on....


You sit and wait for the next ping with complete disregard for where those pings might be coming from and then the rider magically teleports into your car to start the trip. I get it now! I get why you have such lousy numbers for a surge guy!


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