# If Carrying Was Uber Okay ? ?



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories? 

I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.

I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

People with concealed carry permits are more than likely already carrying with or without Uber's stamp of approval.


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## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


A gun for home defense is totally understandable, but I don't know about rideshare . I can't see a situation that would require you to blast your passenger. More likely an outside threat .

What situation do you worry about that's making you want to gun up ?


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

Isn't it difficult to get a CCW permit in CA?


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## Spider-Man (Jul 7, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


this was covered EXTENSIVELY 4 months ago on this thread. All your ?s will be answered :thumbup:
https://uberpeople.net/threads/why-i-carry.332450/


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

Tarvus said:


> People with concealed carry permits are more than likely already carrying with or without Uber's stamp of approval.


I figured but i wanted to see everyone's thoughts.


O-Side Uber said:


> A gun for home defense is totally understandable, but I don't know about rideshare . I can't see a situation that would require you to blast your passenger. More likely an outside threat .
> 
> What situation do you worry about that's making you want to gun up ?


I suppose any situation that gets out of control. As a last resort? What's the alternative?

If my home was ever robbed I've always planned to say I had a gun to the burglars. I might as well really have one.



MadTownUberD said:


> Isn't it difficult to get a CCW permit in CA?


I have no idea ?.

Maybe a CA gun owner can post their thoughts. Would like to know more



Spider-Man said:


> this was covered EXTENSIVELY 4 months ago on this thread. All your ?s will be answered :thumbup:
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/why-i-carry.332450/


I wasnt here that time so doesnt count ?


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


First thing you need to do is go to a gun range and take a short course on the proper way to handle a firearm, this will make you comfortable handling a gun and also you'll learn what you can and cannot do legally. 
A gun is just a tool, handled properly it may be a life saver one day.
As for your fathers gun it was either a rifle or shotgun, most likely a shotgun, excellent home defense weapon.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


The very fact that your dad kept loaded Gun under his bed shows irresponsibility ..it "seems" like a good idea but this is what ends up happening..
_
KTVU learned the boy was visiting Wilson's home when he found a loaded gun underneath a bed and shot himself.

The incident occurred in the 2400 block of Ritchie Street at around 2:00 p.m. Wednesday.

Jamilia Land, who said she is the boy's grand aunt, identified the 4-year-old as Navaun Jackson. She said gun violence has taken the lives of other members of the boy's family and said they shouldn't have to be subjected to so much. The boy remains hospitalized at UCSF Benioff Children's Hospital Oakland.

*BUCKEYE, Ariz. *- A 2-year-old Arizona boy was hospitalized in serious condition after s*hooting himself in the face with a gun that police said may have been hidden under a pillow on a bed.*_


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Mkang14 said:


> I figured but i wanted to see everyone's thoughts.
> I suppose any situation that gets out of control. As a last resort? What's the alternative?
> 
> If my home was ever robbed I've always planned to say I had a gun to the burglars. I might as well really have one.
> ...


Better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6, California gun laws would be great if everyone could carry a cop around all day.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

dauction said:


> The very fact that your dad kept loaded Gun under his bed shows irresponsibility ..it "seems" like a good idea but this is what ends up happening..
> _
> KTVU learned the boy was visiting Wilson's home when he found a loaded gun underneath a bed and shot himself.
> 
> ...


I've always thought about this when I got older especially. That was so irresponsible. I'm not sure if it was loaded. I know he had a couple of other small guns on the top of the closet. The big one stood out because of its size. It was in a leather case and that's it.

We learn from our parents mistakes.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> I've always thought about this when I got older especially. That was so irresponsible. I'm not sure if it was loaded. I know he had a couple of other small guns on the top of the closet. The big one stood out because of its size. It was in a leather case and that's it.
> 
> We learn from our parents mistakes.


as a 7 year Old I use to take about my Dads shotgun shells .. I was 7 and trying to figure out how it all worked ..Thast what we do when we are kids.

There are under bed Gun Lock safes Today ..just a shame that some people still refuse to "learn from their parents mistakes"


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

dauction said:


> as a 7 year Old I use to take about my Dads shotgun shells .. I was 7 and trying to figure out how it all worked ..Thast what we do when we are kids.
> 
> There are under bed Gun Lock safes Today ..just a shame that some people still refuse to "learn from their parents mistakes"


It's very safe to keep a loaded pump action shotgun under the bed as long as a round isn't chambered.
The problem with many owners of firearms is they never learned how to properly store and use a gun, every gun owner and future gun owner should take a gun safety course.


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## homelesswarlock (Dec 20, 2018)

Well... let’s see. You would have to draw with your left hand if you intend to shoot someone already inside the vehicle. 

If you produced a gun just to scare them straight; how easy would it be for them to snatch it out of your hand and use it against you? (Remember, you are drawing with the left hand)

The driver is basically a sitting duck.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

homelesswarlock said:


> Well... let's see. You would have to draw with your left hand if you intend to shoot someone already inside the vehicle.
> 
> If you produced a gun just to scare them straight; how easy would it be for them to snatch it out of your hand and use it against you? (Remember, you are drawing with the left hand)
> 
> The driver is basically a sitting duck.


I'm a leftie, quack, quack!


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Drawin' on the sidewinder Behind You is no big deal ?
......for Annie Oakley


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

I'm not a fan of guns, so even in a world where it was legal for all rideshare to carry guns I still wouldn't do it.

I believe in a majority of the scenarios where someone is attacking you in rideshare, you can deal with them without a gun. Rideshare is a very close quarters deal and guns are generally meant for way farther encounters than what is necessary for rideshare. TBH I believe pepper spray or a tazer can deal with the majority of rideshare attacks if you have a window to do it.

The most alarming thing about guns is how prone they are to ACCIDENTS that cause serious injury or worse. Like that FBI agent who tried to do a dance and accidentally dropped his gun and had it shoot someone at a party he was at. Or that Seattle Uber driver that got shot in the leg by his pax's gun which somehow accidentally went off.

Even with knives I remember a story of a pax who had a big ass knife in his pants that accidentally tore up the leather seats in a driver's car when he was getting out.

I would only carry Wing Chun. Does more to discipline you in and out of rideshare as well.






Plus you can't have any Wing Chun accidents. You either choose to pop them in the mouth or you don't.


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## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


Couple things to consider. 
I think most people aren't prepared or mentally equipped to use a firearm in an emergency situation. I believe that people who could use a gun effectively in an uber, are the people who have lived aggressively all their lives. Wrestled with their friends, shot birds with a bb-gun. practiced how to carry and open a switch blade quickly - "just in case." Oh, that's soooo cool. People that have been preparing for that one moment all their lives. And they are a little overzealous when the moment finally arrives.

The rest of us are probably going to choke. A training course _might _help - _maybe_. And are you really going to be prepared to actually shoot somebody? Look how many hunters choke when they have a deer in their sights (buck fever). Could you shoot a deer? Could you shoot a person? How long will you hesitate thinking about it? Will you pull the gun preemptively when some big hostile guy starts screaming obscenities? Or will he have to start wailing on you before it occurs to you to pull a gun. And by that time you instinctively have your hands up protection your face and body from the physical blows - no time to find the gun much less point it over your shoulder, aim, and shoot. Do you think the bullet would even hit him? And you don't think he's going to grab it out of your hands? Anyone who is mentally capable of physically attacking you, is surely already acquainted with physical violence. You're outmatched.

I carry pepper spray. I keep it hanging on a wire just to the left of the steering wheel where no one can see it. I can reach for it without anyone seeing it. I practice reaching for it and releasing the trigger. And I don't have to worry about killing anybody. Pepper spray training courses include you being sprayed yourself, just so you know what it feels like.

And yet, in the few instances when I should have reached for it, I didn't, because it simply didn't occur to me. I was too busy dealing with the situation by other means. In the heat of the moment, instincts take over. And if weaponry is not your instinct, you won't reach for it. Do you freeze in those moments? Will your hands be trembling as you fumble for a gun? Making it an instinctual habit takes lots of time and practice. Notice all the disclaimers by gun advocates about being "properly trained?" Notice they never talk about the time and dedication it actually takes to _be _"properly trained." It's a lifelong pursuit. Some people are simply in love with self defense. Are you?

If you want to carry a weapon, I think pepper spray is the best choice for everybody, including the gun enthusiasts. It's much easier to handle and conceal. It's cheaper. And it's legally more viable because nobody is getting killed. And I think more effective. You can set it for "spray" and you don't have to worry as much about aiming.

OK, gun nuts. Are you feeling lucky? Take aim and give me your best shot. _Make-my-day_.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

I just generally believe it's unnecessary to use something as long range as a gun in such a confined environment. It's like using a crossbow as your main weapon of choice to deal with a possible thug on a bus. 

In confined spaces where arms can reach the target nearly as quickly as a gun, why worry about a more accident prone weapon that targets things way outside of the range of a compact vehicle?


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

Good points.

I don't consider myself a "gun guy" but I do own two handguns and two rifles. We've made a habit of carrying the 9mm with us on road trips. However, I don't think it's necessary for RS. Things are pretty chill here in Utah, especially in the areas I drive. Granted, I usually drive the late night shift on the weekends, when more weirdo's are out. But of the 9000 rides I've given, I can count on one hand how many times I've felt even slightly uncomfortable, let alone threatened. Pepper spray and a dashcam are enough for me.


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## Another Ant (Jun 3, 2019)

ZenUber said:


> OK, *gun nuts*. Are you feeling lucky? Take aim and give me your best shot. _Make-my-day_.


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## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

Another Ant said:


> View attachment 366951


Naw, the meter should be pinned. I'm not wavering like that.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Here we go again. ?

State law > Uber policy. Uber and Lyft also say that pax cannot be armed. Are you searching your pax?

OP, I'm not sure that you are an ideal candidate to carry a firearm. I think that you might overreact or hesitate. One way to know for sure is to train - and not just shooting at paper.

There are plenty of stories related to drivers defending themselves (and not being charged) and drivers being assaulted or murdered.

If you can carry legally, and if you have completed more than the minimum level of training, please carry daily.



ZenUber said:


> If you want to carry a weapon, I think pepper spray is the best choice for everybody, including the gun enthusiasts. It's much easier to handle and conceal. It's cheaper. And it's legally more viable because nobody is getting killed. And I think more effective. You can set it for "spray" and you don't have to worry as much about aiming.
> 
> OK, gun nuts. Are you feeling lucky? Take aim and give me your best shot. _Make-my-day_.


I carry OC in addition to my pistol every day. Especially in a car, that's first. It's on a retractable cord on my belt.

But, guess what? OC spray and Tasers are not always effective. Especially not against someone under the influence or determined to cause serious injury or death.

By the way, I've seen a lot of people mentioning carrying a Taser around the forums, those people are actually carrying a *stun gun. *There are big differences.


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## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


 I wouldn't worry about what Uber has to say. We all know how much they care about us. 
I believe in being prepared. It's far better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.
Aside from a gun I also keep a flashlight/stun gun within my reach. You get people's attention very quickly when they see the blue arc and hear the loud crack of electricity.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Seriously,
If a minimum wage no skill disposable gig driver feels he needs protection from passengers
maybe he should seek work in another field.

Janitorial, food service and warehouse work may afford the safety an Ex Gig drivers seeks.
Certainly those vocations are more lucrative without beating ur ride into junk for pennies


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## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

losiglow said:


> Good points.
> 
> I don't consider myself a "gun guy" but I do own two handguns and two rifles. We've made a habit of carrying the 9mm with us on road trips. However, I don't think it's necessary for RS. Things are pretty chill here in Utah, especially in the areas I drive. Granted, I usually drive the late night shift on the weekends, when more weirdo's are out. But of the 9000 rides I've given, I can count on one hand how many times I've felt even slightly uncomfortable, let alone threatened. Pepper spray and a dashcam are enough for me.


Plus - don't you guys have that magic underwear out there?


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Addressing a couple of points:

1) Accidents, They don't happen if you follow the rules of gun safety. #1 point muzzle in safe direection, #2 finger off trigger until ready to shoot. A lot of morons cannot figure that out, and many of them are cops, but it is well within the reach of most people to use guns without accident.

2) Short ranges: The only time I drew my gun while driving Uber to date, it was for a threat outside of my car. Further, a gun is an equalizer. If you are built like the Terminator, you could argue that you don't need a gun in a small sedan where you could easily stab someone in the backseat. I can't stab someone back in the third row, and I know from stabbing ballistics gel blocks that based on my limited strength, I am much better at shooting than stabbing even at muzzle contact distances.

3) Bad guy taking your gun: Carry more than one.

4) You have to use your left hand: Right handed people often act like they have some sort of disability where their left hand is just some floppy fish. I am ambidextrous for all intents and purposes, but I am a gun instructor and self-proclaimed right handed people seem to have no problem learning to use a gun left handed, especially at short range.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

I have several guns and shoot them at a firing range. We also do guys night out where several weapons of diff calibers 
are in stalls and we rotate turns.
Everyone has a ball they are really fun
I know a guy who is kind of a gun nut 
and was very excited when concealed
carry came to Illinois
He was all over it and applied 
as soon as he could.
The problem with guns is there could
easily be an accident
I asked my buddy in his lifetime 
(50 years) of living in chicago. 
How many times have you needed
a gun on you?
His answer was a big fat ZERO !!!!
If you are carrying a gun, you need to be prepared to kill someone and accept the
responsibility if you accidentally kill an innocent person too.
Not to mention new gun owners that dont store them properly and/or could have a domestic situation that never would have happened without the gun being present
I've done an awful lot of rides here in Chicago and have never ever felt threatened 
Before you buy or think about carrying a
gun you need to think about that very carefully 
Driving my car around pedestrians 
and other drivers is all the danger and responsibility I want right now.....


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Gtown Driver said:


> TBH I believe pepper spray or a tazer can deal with the majority of rideshare attacks if you have a window to do it.


Have you ever been pepper sprayed? You do NOT want that unleashed in your vehicle as it's gonna take you out too.

The odds of a pax attacking you in my market are pretty low, and the car itself can be used as a great "weapon" against them if they do try something. The odds are greater that issues doing rideshare will come from outside the vehicle, not from within.

Agreed that being able to use a firearm on a pax inside the vehicle would be difficult at best. Having one on you anyway is a good idea regardless :smiles:


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## MadePenniesToday (Feb 24, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> The big one stood out because of its size.


 Yup, that's what you said. 

I've had guns for about 13 years and only the first couple years did I carry in car with me. I stopped seeing having the need for it with me. I didn't want the risk of it being stolen from my car. I never felt my life being threatened doing Uber since I try to avoid conflict.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> The problem with guns is there could
> easily be an accident


If you understand the very basics of firearm safety, no.

Seems like a few people here think guns just randomly shoot by themselves. Even dropping a gun is unlikely to cause an accidental discharge.

Keep your firearm properly holstered, keep your booger hook off of the trigger until ready to fire, do not point a gun at anything you do not intend to destroy, and secure firearms properly when not in use.

By the way, what defines a "gun nut?" Someone who chooses to exercise their second amendment right, hoping to never have a need for lethal force but prepared to protect themselves or others?



E30addixt said:


> Have you ever been pepper sprayed? You do NOT want that unleashed in your vehicle as it's gonna take you out too.


This is another pet peeve. Most sprays are designed to be a very fine stream, not like a mist, for that reason. Gel versions are also available.

Likely to make a mess, unlikely to be sprayed yourself. I've sprayed in the wind, no problem.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

E30addixt said:


> Have you ever been pepper sprayed? You do NOT want that unleashed in your vehicle as it's gonna take you out too.
> 
> The odds of a pax attacking you in my market are pretty low, and the car itself can be used as a great "weapon" against them if they do try something. The odds are greater that issues doing rideshare will come from outside the vehicle, not from within.
> 
> Agreed that being able to use a firearm on a pax inside the vehicle would be difficult at best. Having one on you anyway is a good idea regardless :smiles:


Sure, that's a possibility...but i can confirm I've heard more stories of guns accidentally harming someone that was carrying a gun (in or out of rideshare) than I've heard of accidental pepper spray issues. You accidentally spraying yourself is worth it IMO as long as it also incapacitates the other person. That's the goal ultimately. Leave them unable to hurt you without dealing with something that can cause you to bleed out on an accident. Guns force blood out the body and that means the accidents they can create are much more grave than pepper spray.

If you're that worried about it you could carry some swimming goggles with you LOL. Plus generally the threat of the pepper spray is enough to subdue people and if you're that worried about the spray spreading, then tazer is a better alternative I would say in that respect.

The other stuff you said plays in to what I believe and what I agree with you on. A gun is too far range of a weapon for rideshare and you can deal with the majority of rideshare attacks with things that force out less blood and have less range than a gun. Carrying a gun around at a large store or mall? Ok sure, it's America. In a confined car? More things that can go wrong than right when there are so many other close range alternatives with less threatening accidental issues.

Pepper spray, tazer or your martial arts hands basically can do everything a gun can within a car with less effort, less ammo and less severity if an accident occurs. Just don't see the need to be Clint Eastwood or Rambo in a car when everyone that could harm you is within arms reach.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> Sure, that's a possibility...but i can confirm I've heard more stories of guns accidentally harming someone that was carrying a gun (in or out of rideshare) than I've heard of accidental pepper spray issues. You accidentally spraying yourself is worth it IMO as long as it also incapacitates the other person. That's the goal ultimately. Leave them unable to hurt you without dealing with something that can cause you to bleed out on an accident. Guns force blood out the body and that means the accidents they can create are much more grave than pepper spray.
> 
> If you're that worried about it you could carry some swimming goggles with you LOL. Plus generally the threat of the pepper spray is enough to subdue people and if you're that worried about the spray spreading, then tazer is a better alternative I would say in that respect.
> 
> ...


Do a lil research. OC spray is not always effective, there's a difference between a Taser and a stun gun (again, neither of which is always effective), and guns can absolutely be used in a confined space (also read about hollow point ammunition, carried by law enforcement and most CCW holders).


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Do a lil research. OC spray is not always effective, there's a difference between a Taser and a stun gun (again, neither of which is always effective), and guns can absolutely be used in a confined space (also read about hollow point ammunition, carried by law enforcement and most CCW holders).


Oh I'm sure. I just personally believe there is about 0 situations in a rideshare vehicle (especially in a compact vehicle/sedan) that are only able to be handled with a gun. Which means I believe nearly 100 percent of threatening rideshare encounters can be dealt with without a gun.

For situations where you have more space between you and your attacker, yeah a gun makes more sense. Using something that can fire 1500 feet and make someone bleed out in an enclosed space of no more than 10 feet or so is just rather unnecessary IMO.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Gel versions are also available.
> 
> Likely to make a mess, unlikely to be sprayed yourself. I've sprayed in the wind, no problem.


Just grabbed some gel the other day.










Gtown Driver said:


> Oh I'm sure. I just personally believe there is about 0 situations in a rideshare vehicle (especially in a compact vehicle/sedan) that are only able to be handled with a gun. Which means I believe nearly 100 percent of threatening rideshare encounters can be dealt with without a gun.
> 
> For situations where you have more space between you and your attacker, yeah a gun makes more sense. Using something that can fire 1500 feet and make someone bleed out in an enclosed space of no more than 10 feet or so is just rather unnecessary IMO.


One of the courses I took at Sig mentioned the average gun fight in the civilian world is over in 9 seconds, less then 9' and 9 rounds....

Personal preference as to defensive tactics and the reality is a firearm is not your best first choice in a car, but if I'm attacked in or out of a vehicle I have no qualms if they "bleed out" as you say.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

E30addixt said:


> Just grabbed some gel the other day.
> View attachment 366953


Are you an Older woman who feels safe knowing U have some form of protection?


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> If you understand the very basics of firearm safety, no.
> 
> Seems like a few people here think guns just randomly shoot by themselves. Even dropping a gun is unlikely to cause an accidental discharge.
> 
> ...


I never said that people 
shouldn't buy or own guns
I would say if you have more than 
5 pistols and dont ever hunt 
you are probably a nut
Our cars are safe too 
till theres an accident
With great power comes 
great responsibility 
How did the haircut go?


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Cold Fusion said:


> Are you an Older woman who feels safe knowing U have some form of protection?


Nope, just someone who knows the world is full of shitty people and having a variety of options in preparation for dealing with them is beneficial.

Lethal force isn't always the most appropriate response.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

homelesswarlock said:


> Well... let's see. You would have to draw with your left hand if you intend to shoot someone already inside the vehicle.
> 
> If you produced a gun just to scare them straight; how easy would it be for them to snatch it out of your hand and use it against you? (Remember, you are drawing with the left hand)
> 
> The driver is basically a sitting duck.


Actually all one has to do is draw a gun and fire through the seat, never let a pax ride shotgun, no pun intended. If you have to have a pax ride shotgun and run into a problem just have a knife by your side and use it if necessary, aim for the family jewels, this will give you enough time to retrieve your gun a turn the guy into a transgender permanently.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

peteyvavs said:


> Actually all one has to do is draw a gun and fire through the seat, never let a pax ride shotgun, no pun intended. If you have to have a pax ride shotgun and run into a problem just have a knife by your side and use it if necessary, aim for the family jewels, this will give you enough time to retrieve your gun a turn the guy into a transgender permanently.


Chop to the throat is probably quicker for a pax riding shotgun. Taking someones air away can do wonders sometimes.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

E30addixt said:


> Personal preference as to defensive tactics and the reality is a firearm is not your best first choice in a car, but if I'm attacked in or out of a vehicle I have no qualms if they "bleed out" as you say.


That's pretty much what my stance is. There's so many other things that you can learn to protect yourself in a rideshare vehicle outside of a gun any way. Gun is much better suited for things outside of rideshare and it's a bonus if you just live in a country where people can only carry knives to attack you any way.

The majority of rideshare attacks I've heard of involve of some crazy nut who usually never has a gun on them themselves. They usually are just a drunk man or woman flailing their arms around which doesn't need a gun to deal with. Especially in such an enclosed space there's so many options that don't need a gun to take advantage of.

Martial arts and guns are the same in that respect. Both teach you that there is no fair fight and that if anyone does attack your safety/well being they will not get anything fair coming back to them.

I'm perfectly fine with someone wanting to use a gun to deal with their rideshare attackers. Baseball bat, minigun, flamethrower, you pick the weapon. I just believe it's also true that you can deal with almost all rideshare attacks without a gun and with general deescalation if they don't immediately force themselves on you.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

E30addixt said:


> Chop to the throat is probably quicker for a pax riding shotgun. Taking someones air away can do wonders sometimes.


I like to have some with pax's that are aholes.



Gtown Driver said:


> That's pretty much what my stance is. There's so many other things that you can learn to protect yourself in a rideshare vehicle outside of a gun any way. Gun is much better suited for things outside of rideshare and it's a bonus if you just live in a country where people can only carry knives to attack you any way.
> 
> The majority of rideshare attacks I've heard of involve of some crazy nut who usually never has a gun on them themselves. They usually are just a drunk man or woman flailing their arms around which doesn't need a gun to deal with. Especially in such an enclosed space there's so many options that don't need a gun or a gun.
> 
> ...


But I want to have fun, they'll never be the same when I'm done.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

peteyvavs said:


> But I want to have fun, they'll never be the same when I'm done.


Once they attack you first it's whatever is most fun for you.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Cold Fusion said:


> Seriously,
> If a minimum wage no skill disposable gig driver feels he needs protection from passengers
> maybe he should seek work in another field.
> 
> ...


Then why are you on these boards, shouldn't you be cleaning toilets.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Gtown Driver said:


> and with general deescalation


Yup. My biggest issue in thousands of rides was the drunk dude sitting behind me and he tried to get under my skin. Laid his hand on my shoulder and then cupped my arm. When he asked if he was bothering me I told him "not at all, just keep going lower and help me out, it's been a while..." His hand shot away super quick and his friends all cracked up. He was an angel for the rest of the ride. :whistling:


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Cold Fusion said:


> Ma'am, I work and live in NYC and feel no need for protection.
> I'm sure Tampa's toilets ? need ur attention ✔


I live in TAMPA, it's a toilet, please come down and clean it ?


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> I live in TAMPA, it's a toilet, please come down and clean it ?


You're living your no skill low wage, Living in fear dream.
Swim in it uber driver✔
Khosrowshahi ❤ loves U


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## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


If I were a girl, I would carry. Also, if I had a family, I would carry, to preserver my life so I can take care of them.

As is my current situation, solo...I don't carry. I don't every drive with any suspicion that I am going to be attacked, all that. I just drive. No cares in the world, except to make sure no one destroys my property!!

I live in a Quad-home condo (4 units), and, when I first moved in up to 1.5 years of living there, there was a meth dealer in one of the units (even though it is the safest "area" of my city, I just got unlucky). Well, one early morning (3 am) his door got shot in. I bought a 9mm glock after that. Well, since then he has been arrested and will be in prison for at least 10 years minimum with his charges, so I sold my glock and no longer have a gun.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> First thing you need to do is go to a gun range and take a short course on the proper way to handle a firearm


100% the plan is to practice and take safety courses. Seeing myself with a gun right now would be like handing a gun to a monkey ? (no offense @Rakos)



Gtown Driver said:


> TBH I believe pepper spray or a tazer can deal with the majority of rideshare attacks if you have a window to do it.


I have pepper spray now. Taser I'm hesitant about. Doesn't it require distance aand good aim?



ZenUber said:


> Couple things to consider.
> I think most people aren't prepared or mentally equipped to use a firearm in an emergency situation. I believe that people who could use a gun effectively in an uber, are the people who have lived aggressively all their lives. Wrestled with their friends, shot birds with a bb-gun. practiced how to carry and open a switch blade quickly - "just in case." Oh, that's soooo cool. People that have been preparing for that one moment all their lives. And they are a little overzealous when the moment finally arrives.
> 
> The rest of us are probably going to choke. A training course _might _help - _maybe_. And are you really going to be prepared to actually shoot somebody? Look how many hunters choke when they have a deer in their sights (buck fever). Could you shoot a deer? Could you shoot a person? How long will you hesitate thinking about it? Will you pull the gun preemptively when some big hostile guy starts screaming obscenities? Or will he have to start wailing on you before it occurs to you to pull a gun. And by that time you instinctively have your hands up protection your face and body from the physical blows - no time to find the gun much less point it over your shoulder, aim, and shoot. Do you think the bullet would even hit him? And you don't think he's going to grab it out of your hands? Anyone who is mentally capable of physically attacking you, is surely already acquainted with physical violence. You're outmatched.
> ...


Thank you Mr. Zen.

The fears of attempting to use a gun and failing, as you described are the same fears I have. But I tried to look at it another way. Having and learning to correctly use a gun can built confidence because now you have back up. Then the hands will be less shakey and the mind will be more focused. This all sounds great in my head ?

Also the threat of a gun can be just as big of a deterrent as shooting it.

Its would be the most beneficial in my house, with my kids behind me and a burglar heading towards the room.


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## Deepscout (Sep 3, 2018)

OP, one issue to be aware of: many states require you to disclose to any law enforcement officer who addresses or possibly even approaches you that you are in possession of a concealed firearm. I live in such a state. I drive late nights, and regularly go through DUI checkpoints with riders. I also once got pulled over with riders in the car. Can you see the potential problem here?


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Mkang14 said:


> I have pepper spray now. Taser I'm hesitant about. Doesn't it require distance aand good aim?
> 
> Also the threat of a gun can be just as big of a deterrent as shooting it.


It's been mentioned a few times already, but there is a difference between a taser and stun gun. One shoots probes and the other is a contact weapon. A taser is kinda pointless inside a car, a stun gun "may" be usefull to give yourself some time to create distance or use a more incapacitating option.

The threat can be a good deterrent, but be ready to use it if it comes down to it. A lot of people seem to think point a firearm at someone will do the trick but aren't able to follow through and pull the trigger on a human. Ask yourself before hand if you could end someones life. If you can't now that firearm can be used against you...


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

O-Side Uber said:


> A gun for home defense is totally understandable, but I don't know about rideshare . I can't see a situation that would require you to blast your passenger. More likely an outside threat .
> 
> What situation do you worry about that's making you want to gun up ?


its not always the passenger .
once i was in my older porch 15 years old but i kept it looking brand new.
it was all planned out for people to car jack me .
i am driving the car in front slams the brakes the car behind me on my ass complete stop . what do i see ? a guy running from the ditch with a gun pointing at me ! what did he see ? a gun pointing back at him ! almost had to shoot him few more feet . i scream at him whats up mother f ! . he ran off waving his arms car in front drove off peeling out . this was 2 minutes from my home . another time legally carrying my pistol detroit michigan by the way my nephew and i were going to a market. what do we see 2 guys walking in the middle of the street pointing at us my car truck behind me can back up ! i pull my pistol out to put it onto my lap nephew asks why ? possible bad guys ! we cant drive anywhere basically screwed . choice run them over or drive slowly see if they let us threw idk wtf they want really not feeling safe here . drove slowly 1 guy stood in the middle of the road other walked up to my window see the gun on my lap waved at the other guy standing in front block me to move ! we drove past . the next day you see my praised porch on craigs list being sold . i bought a pos truck smashed up never had an issue again . 
to cover my ass will say this entire store is fictional i dont need to be arrested from sharing my experiences .


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## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> I figured but i wanted to see everyone's thoughts.
> I suppose any situation that gets out of control. As a last resort? What's the alternative?
> 
> If my home was ever robbed I've always planned to say I had a gun to the burglars. I might as well really have one.


Just have an audio recording ready to play of a tommy gun going off...

Tell them that you are going to give them to the count of 10 to get their no good, rotten kiester off your property. Then say "1,2...10!"

Then hit the play button and watch them run!


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I'd conceal carry 24/7 everywhere if it was legal, not just doing rideshare.



Mkang14 said:


> The fears of attempting to use a gun and failing, as you described are the same fears I have.


I have fired thousands of rounds thru a Browning 9mm..........after the first 100 or so, you will start become "one" with the weapon of your choice, it will become an extension of your body and mind, and all these fears will disappear permanently. You will also learn how to strip and clean your weapon, and completely understand how it operates.

What you need to do is go to a professional range, talk to the experts, rent some pistols recommended for CCW use, and practice with them until you find the one that is "yours".


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

E30addixt said:


> Ask yourself before hand if you could end someones life. If you can't now that firearm can be used against you...


Pretty much.



Mkang14 said:


> I have pepper spray now. Taser I'm hesitant about. Doesn't it require distance aand good aim?


If you already have pepper spray you basically already have everything you need IMO. You already have enough things going for you.

1. You're a female that's visually appealing

2. You live in about the most bro area in the US

3. Your generally have a personality that seems non confrontational

Number 2 and 3 is enough to deal with 99 percent of the rideshare issues you could encounter and then being pretty helps some more in my honest opinion. Even in the animal kingdom animals tend to prefer to fight things that look confrontational. Which is why some animals play dead to not show an aggressive stance that could get them eaten. The majority of attacks come from somewhere, not just nowhere. They tell you not to look at the eyes of an aggressive dog for a reason.

It's usually an escalation of words or mannerisms. A drunken guy can easily get into a fight because they want to assert dominance and pick at someone for their issues. This makes rideshare drivers vulnerable as they can see a male driver being confrontational with them as someone trying to prove their dominance over them. In their eyes you're trying to be the man and they'll wanna show you that "NO IM THE MAN" and so on.

Like in this scenario here






There's a ton of things that happened here that led the guy in the backseat to need to "assert his dominance". He was also clearly on some shit.

Could you have used a gun to deal with that scenario? Yeah sure. Would have needed a gun to keep that scenario from happening? No, not at all IMO.

I'm definitely supportive of you carrying a gun if that's what you end up doing. I just believe the only time you'll ever actually pull that gun out is to stop 2 other scoundrels shooting each other 100 feet away from you out your window in a bad part of town. I can almost guarantee you you'll never shoot that thing in your car to deal with a rideshare fight.

In general just by the way you look you are already have a natural deescalation. The bro dude on Friday night isn't going to want to show you he's the man and box you out in his car. They usually look for men to do that stuff to after a back and forth argument. Any other situation where a man or woman could want to attack you in your car, you can deal with with self defense training and deescalation. People wanna try people who try back the majority of the time.

The majority of these fools never have guns any way. Is having a gun useful for the rare scenario of the true 100 percent wacko who just wants to attack you regardless of how non aggressive you appear or act? Sure. Outside of that rare rare scenario, as far as a rideshare car is concerned I believe your body and stance does well enough.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

I wouldn't unless you're former/current LE or Military and have extensive experience in real life close combat situations. Most people these days have never even been in a fist fight as an adult. I doubt if some sh*t goes down they're gonna be able to do anything with a gun. Most likely the majority would either get it taken from them and get shot with it or they'd get scared in a situation, overreact, and do time for manslaughter. 

I'm more confident in my ability with a shotgun for home defense (hint, you don't need much ability, that's why they're recommended) than I am in close quarters with a handgun. So I wouldn't carry while driving. For me the risk of something going wrong due to my inexperience shooting people with a handgun is higher than someone actually attacking and getting the best of me in the first place.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

ANT 7 said:


> I have fired thousands of rounds thru a Browning 9mm..........after the first 100 or so, you will start become "one" with the weapon of your choice, it will become an extension of your body and mind, and all these fears will disappear permanently. You will learn how to strip and clean your weapon, and completely understand how it operates.


You just got me pumped?. A couple of my coworkers already offered to take to me to the gun range. I'm ready for this.



Gtown Driver said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> If you already have pepper spray you basically already have everything you need IMO. You already have enough things going for you.
> 
> ...


I think about the what ifs to often. I hope my family and I are never in a life threatening situation. I want to be prepared. I dont plan on EVER using it unless I have to.

Chances of coming face to face with such a situation is extremely low. But still possible.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

It's very empowering. I think you'll like it.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> You just got me pumped?. A couple of my coworkers already offered to take to me to the gun range. I'm ready for this.
> 
> I think about the what ifs to often. I hope my family and I are never in a life threatening situation. I want to be prepared. I dont plan on EVER using it unless I have to.
> 
> Chances of coming face to face with such a situation is extremely low. But still possible.


That's very true.

I'll just also bet all of the money in my bank account that if you have both pepper spray and a gun on you, you'll reach for your pepper spray before ever touching your gun to deal with the one aggressive pax scenario you'll ever deal with.

If you never buy that gun, I'm sure your natural stance and your pepper spray will work fine enough. If you're a what if person, definitely go get the gun, but you'll still probably pick the pepper spray first. Most of these wackos that don't have guns just need a spray in the face or a Wing Chun crack in the nose.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

The key thing to remember is that people on meth, crack, and some other drugs are often impervious to pepper spray and things like that.

In the army I had to go thru the gas shack every year to qualify. What that meant was being exposed to full on combat level CS gas, not the decontented sissy shit that gets sold in a hunting goods store.

After we were finished doing calesthetics in the gas shack, I had to remove my gas mask, walk across the 50' long hallway and then recite my name, rank, and serial number, and finally walk the remaining 50' out the door. Even this CS gas, to someone who knows how to deal with it, can be overcome. Obviously every perp won't have my training, but chances are, most perps will be high. So.....................

You are never going to pull your piece unless you are in mortal danger. And if you do unholster it, you will be prepared and ready to use it. But, just having it strapped to your body, and knowing it is there, will do more for your confidence you require to diffuse any situation without the perp even knowing you are armed.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I never said that people
> shouldn't buy or own guns
> I would say if you have more than
> 5 pistols and dont ever hunt
> you are probably a nut


I guess I'm a nut. I own over 50 pistols and have never been hunting. I let my cat do the hunting for me. I'm basically a vegetarian except that I do eat birds that the cat brings in, and whatever my UberEATS customers fail to allow me to deliver to them.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

ANT 7 said:


> The key thing to remember is that people on meth, crack, and some other drugs are impervious to pepper spray and things like that.
> 
> In the army l I had to go thru the gas shack every year to qualify. What that meant was being exposed to full on combat level CS gas, not the decontented sissy shit that gets sold in a a hunting goods store.
> 
> ...


That's understandable. There's the stories of guys on PCP that need 10 cops to deal with them because the other 5 had trouble. You could just shoot him to death, but even cops don't always just want to do that first.

In general for the majority of these wackos though, they're probably just drunk at most or just angry at life and that's enough for pepper spray to do the trick. In most rideshare stories I've seen just the male or female driver pointing the pepper spray is enough to deescalate and scare the pax off.

If you are getting the true crackfiend, then yeah having that gun is extra insurance. Otherwise I've just yet to hear any rideshare stories where a gun would be the only way to deal with what happened. Majority of the time you should just tell someone to leave your car the instant they get even remotely aggressive.

In almost all of the cases of these rideshare battles I've seen, the driver drives WAY TOO LONG. Like in that video above, there is no reason for that dude to be dealing with aggressive behavior for that long. You're just turning the heat on the stove hotter and hotter. Once they get even verbally aggressive, pull over and tell them to get out. Step out of the car yourself if you want more space and then you can have your spray/taser/gun/martial arts ready if needed.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I've never had to do it, driving days, but pulling into a police station parking lot with a bad pax is the way to diffuse any situation.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

ANT 7 said:


> I've never had to do it, driving days, but pulling into a police station parking lot with a bad pax is the way to diffuse any situation.


Exactly.

I believe the best way to deal with these situations is about how you think, not what you're carrying. Think what to do, where to drive, how quickly to do it and do not show any aggressive stances. Act as if nothing they're saying bothers you until you can get to the right place or do the right thing.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


Get training! I am certain in your area there are great gun ranges that teach gun safety and teach you to shoot. Here in Bellevue WA they have a Ladies only night twice a month at Wades. I am sure other ranges do too. Gun safety is important and some of it is counter intuitive so a learning safety and gun basics class is a great way to start. Before purchasing a gun, it is best to determine what your needs are. Your anecdotal story about your fathers rifle is a great example of owning the wrong weapon ( unless of course he (is) was a hunter) for the intended purpose. Rifles are not ideal for indoor self defense, but can be better than nothing.

Take some classes and then go shoot and figure out which style of handgun you are most comfortable with.

My Carry is a Bulldog. A 357 magnum short barrel Ruger revolver. It is compact enough for a shoulder holster and has stopping power to drop a grizzly bear if needed. I live in bear (black) country, in fact there is a bear or bears moving through the woods right now (so all the dogs in the neighborhood are saying) and I often spend time out in the hills where I might encounter a Momma / Baby bear combo. He'll we get that in the neighborhood as well. This would not be a good carry for you and wouldn't suit your needs. Might break your wrist just firing it.

Have fun in exploring your new hobby but remember guns are not fun, they are dangerous and their only purpose is to kill


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## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

Here is the thing. Goober is not going to be there when you need help the most! As a combat vet and a part time (late night driver) here in Phoenix area I will say that the passenger better make it count cause if not... their ride is ending with them in a bag. Why in the world would you give 2 shits about goobers rules about no fire arms, pepper spray, or stun gun when you really need it most? I am not saying you should or shouldn't carry something for in case of a emergency life or death situation. I am saying I DON'T care if they deactivate me if for some reason I got to protect myself in that situation.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> A gun for home defense is totally understandable, but I don't know about rideshare . I can't see a situation that would require you to blast your passenger. More likely an outside threat .
> 
> What situation do you worry about that's making you want to gun up ?


not on 1st shift but if i worked nights i wouldnt care what uber lyft had to say & would carry

watchs 1970s episodes of taxi, cabs have partitions for a reason & its not to protect riders from drivers lol, every driver is a target with a $100-1000+ phone to steal among a $5000-50,000 car and any rapists, robber, murderer, felon, drug dealer..... can get an anonymous account in minutes & be in your back seat no background check just realeased from rikers, youll never know


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## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

Gtown Driver said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> 1. You're a female that's visually appealing


Well played, sir! Subtle, but effective!


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> Have fun in exploring your new hobby but remember guns are not fun, they are dangerous and their only purpose is to kill


I really hate when people say this. There are countless stories where they are used as a deterrent and things never escalate to the point where they need to be fired. Their purpose can be to stop the threat, and even if that means firing at someone, that doesn't always mean killing someone. Granted the best way to ensure the threat is stopped is to kill it...


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> If you never buy that gun, I'm sure your natural stance and your pepper spray will work fine enough. If you're a what if person, definitely go get the gun, but you'll still probably pick the pepper spray first. Most of these wackos that don't have guns just need a spray in the face or a Wing Chun crack in the nose.


Lethal force is a last ditch option. It's for after all else fails and you are facing possible death without defending yourself or someone else.



Amos69 said:


> Have fun in exploring your new hobby but remember guns are not fun, they are dangerous and their only purpose is to kill


A gun is a tool. If you use it for hunting to feed your family or community, it's a tool for that. If you use it for recreational activities, such as competition, it's a tool for that. If you use it for self defense, it's a tool for that.

Your car is also a tool. If you use it for your commute or buying groceries, it's a tool for that. If you use it to earn money on Uber, it's a tool for that. If you use it to drive into a crowd of people, it's a tool for that.

The point is, YOU decide what the purpose of the gun is. It's an inanimate object.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Lethal force is a last ditch option. It's for after all else fails and you are facing possible death without defending yourself or someone else.
> 
> 
> A gun is a tool. If you use it for hunting to feed your family or community, it's a tool for that. If you use it for recreational activities, such as competition, it's a tool for that. If you use it for self defense, it's a tool for that.
> ...


True but, It is most likely the only tool you own who's intended and sole purpose is to kill


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## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

Amos69 said:


> True but, It is most likely the only tool you own who's intended and sole purpose is to kill


Purpose more than not is to 'deter'. Hopefully, creating a distance from the assaulter and giving him a small chance to submit to the gun possessor.

Then,obviously, if no submission and charge ensued...for me, shoot legs if given the chance. Last resort, aim for the heart.

Again, the word for the day is DETER!


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Lethal force is a last ditch option. It's for after all else fails and you are facing possible death without defending yourself or someone else.


I can see that. I'm just of the high opinion that the vast vast majority of rideshare pax attacks can be dealt with without a gun. Almost all of the scenarios I've seen have steps that lead up to the threat any way. It's usually never just a random threat and the majority of the time the pax never has a gun.

The majority of videos and stories I've seen I've yet to see one that I could say "yeah that needed a gun or a gun would be the only way to deal with it". Do you need something that can shoot 1500 feet to deal with someone 2 feet away from you and almost never has a gun themselves? I generally think no.

I will agree with you that a gun is necessary to cover the most dangerous of scenarios, but I believe in most scenarios where you would NEED to use a gun, it would already be too late for you other than praying they slip up. These are the rarest of the rare pax that would actually have a gun on them and willing to shoot you.

The way I see it the majority of attacks in rideshare are almost always either ones where a gun wouldn't be vital to deal with the situation, or it would be too late to use a gun if they were the rare few any way.

In the end though I won't knock anyone who decides it's part of what they need.


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## Deepscout (Sep 3, 2018)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> Purpose more than not is to 'deter'. Hopefully, creating a distance from the assaulter and giving him a small chance to submit to the gun possessor.
> 
> Then,obviously, if no submission and charge ensued...for me, shoot legs if given the chance. Last resort, aim for the heart.
> 
> Again, the word for the day is DETER!


If you draw your firearm, you are not deterring a confrontation, you are escalating a confrontation. Your muzzle should only clear the holster when you have made the determination that you are ready to fire. If you show your firearm in the absence of a mortal threat, you will be facing charges yourself.

Now, if they retreat, fine. But that's not what you have in mind when you draw.

"Shoot legs if given the chance" is just silly.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> Purpose more than not is to 'deter'. Hopefully, creating a distance from the assaulter and giving him a small chance to submit to the gun possessor.
> 
> Then,obviously, if no submission and charge ensued...for me, shoot legs if given the chance. Last resort, aim for the heart.
> 
> Again, the word for the day is DETER!


Reread what you wrote.

That doesn't happen.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Deepscout said:


> If you draw your firearm, you are not deterring a confrontation, you are escalating a confrontation. Your muzzle should only clear the holster when you have made the determination that you are ready to fire. If you show your firearm in the absence of a mortal threat, you will be facing charges yourself.


This is explained in martial arts also.

The best way to fight is to not show you want to fight. No emotion in your face, do not put up a fighting stance, just look like you have no reason or drive to attack.

You can still attack whenever you want without having to look like you want to attack. Looking like you want to attack gives your attacker more preparation. >>>>>> SEGMENT ABOUT HOW TO ATTACK WITHOUT SHOWING SIGNALS

Putting your hands up and showing you are scared to fight is also bad. Don't show you are ready to fight and don't show you are scared.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

In 22 years the worst weapon I've ever carried was a tire iron under the seat. If you think about the angle that you're sitting in as a cab driver or an Uber driver, what makes you think you would have time to pull the pistol out and turn around and fire off a shot before they could do that to you? It's better to be proactive ahead of time and diffuse situations with psychology and not Weaponry. That's always been my experience.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Living in a mid-sized city, a few years back there was a serious of attacks / murders of cab drivers. There seemed to be no end to the wave.

Then it happened. A cabbie shot his attacker - and the cab company supported him. Thee attacks ended. Nearly two years passed before another occurred.

What to carry? I suggest a revolver. Think about it: where will the gun throw hot brass? I don't want hot brass in my face, should I have an issue with a passenger.

Holster? I sewed a shot-filled bag to an ordinary holster. I sit on the bag and the holster hangs next to the door near my knee.


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## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

Deepscout said:


> If you draw your firearm, you are not deterring a confrontation, you are escalating a confrontation. Your muzzle should only clear the holster when you have made the determination that you are ready to fire. If you show your firearm in the absence of a mortal threat, you will be facing charges yourself.
> 
> Now, if they retreat, fine. But that's not what you have in mind when you draw.
> 
> "Shoot legs if given the chance" is just silly.


Ok, you do you.

We are, of course, speaking broadly... when lots of specifics matter. If the guy is less athletic than me, I can create space, pull fire arm. If they can overpower me physically, obviously I have to narrow it down to 'shoot immediately'. But, back to statistics, guns deter and don't get fired MORE than they get pulled out and are actually fired.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Revolvers also are not prone to jamming. But, you are limited in the amount of rounds you can carry, even with speed clips, reloading is a pain..


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> In 22 years the worst weapon I've ever carried was a tire iron under the seat. If you think about the angle that you're sitting in as a cab driver or an Uber driver, what makes you think you would have time to pull the pistol out and turn around and fire off a shot before they could do that to you? It's better to be proactive ahead of time and diffuse situations with psychology and not Weaponry. That's always been my experience.


That's what it comes down to for me.

Rideshare attacks are street fight distance fights. The vast majority of tools to utilize in a rideshare attack are way more available to you in that space any way. It's not like being in a large grocery store or convenient mart where a gun is the only thing of range you have and a gun attacker is likely. If they close that space too far and you're not ready for it, then you have to just hope they somehow deescalate any way.

Plus again, the majority of these people are just egotistical pricks that never normally carry guns on them. A gun to me seems necessary when there's plenty of space between me and my attacker. Close quarters in a car? So many things you can utilize both physically and mentally as long as they don't just immediately strangle you. The best weapon in those close quarters is just deescalation (moving or stopping into safe area/telling them to exit your car) and have something to stun them if you don't have any real self defense or deescalation training.

The ones that are not prescription/street drugged up are just uppity suburban people with money or people who don't have money who need someone to take it out on. You being the rideshare driver that isn't fulfilling their entitled needs is where it starts.


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## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

Here is the thing. I don't care if the pax has a hand gun or knife. Anyone that attacks from behind someone else has a bag coming in my book! Picture this, male passenger (weird as shit) comes at you from the passenger rear seat with a large knife at 3am. If I am in that position and the car is in motion.... they get what they got coming. I don't know where allot of you drive, but some of the large cities have these weirdo's that think they can car jack you or hurt you and take your car. I happen to be in one of those cities.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Tarvus said:


> People with concealed carry permits are more than likely already carrying with or without Uber's stamp of approval.


IN LOUISIANA
THE CAR IS AN EXTENSION OF THE HOME
YOU NEED NO PERMIT TO CONCEAL OR CARRY IN YOUR CAR
BY LAW.


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## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

Not in Arizona where I am. Many many states are very lenient with that if it is self defense.


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## uberist (Jul 14, 2016)

dauction said:


> The very fact that your dad kept loaded Gun under his bed shows irresponsibility ..it "seems" like a good idea but this is what ends up happening..


I seem to be blind to the part of his post that says his dads gun was loaded... could you please highlite that part?


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## soontobeautomated (Apr 4, 2017)

What a enlightening thread this is. Thankfully I live in a more progressive part of the world where FUber drivers debate whether they should carry...... carry water and mints. The answer is no.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Amos69 said:


> True but, It is most likely the only tool you own who's intended and sole purpose is to kill


I have guns. Got one on my hip right now. How many people have I killed? Zero. How many targets have I destroyed.. oh, the horror!

Again, it's a tool. The individual decides. And the vast majority of people that carry hope to never use their gun for the purpose of taking a life.


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## Jon77 (Dec 6, 2018)

ZenUber said:


> Couple things to consider.
> I think most people aren't prepared or mentally equipped to use a firearm in an emergency situation. I believe that people who could use a gun effectively in an uber, are the people who have lived aggressively all their lives. Wrestled with their friends, shot birds with a bb-gun. practiced how to carry and open a switch blade quickly - "just in case." Oh, that's soooo cool. People that have been preparing for that one moment all their lives. And they are a little overzealous when the moment finally arrives.
> 
> The rest of us are probably going to choke. A training course _might _help - _maybe_. And are you really going to be prepared to actually shoot somebody? Look how many hunters choke when they have a deer in their sights (buck fever). Could you shoot a deer? Could you shoot a person? How long will you hesitate thinking about it? Will you pull the gun preemptively when some big hostile guy starts screaming obscenities? Or will he have to start wailing on you before it occurs to you to pull a gun. And by that time you instinctively have your hands up protection your face and body from the physical blows - no time to find the gun much less point it over your shoulder, aim, and shoot. Do you think the bullet would even hit him? And you don't think he's going to grab it out of your hands? Anyone who is mentally capable of physically attacking you, is surely already acquainted with physical violence. You're outmatched.
> ...


 I am a bona fide gun nut but I mostly agree with your assessment.
In the confines of a vehicle when somebody is behind you, a weapon is pretty much useless if you have a determined foe.
I have considered applying for and getting a CCW, but it's mainly for when I'm in a bad area like downtown LA at night.
For a gun to be useful the threat would have to be coming from outside the vehicle.
One thing that bothers me quite a bit is the possibility of vehicle breakdown in a crap neighborhood.
A few weeks ago I had a flat tire with passengers in the vehicle it was on the side of the 405 but it could've happened anywhere.
This weekend I use the DF filter to get back to South County from LA and I ended up picking up a passenger in a place called Compton.
At 1 o'clock in the morning.
If I get a flat tire in that area I definitely want a pistol on my hip.
I was shot during the LA riots so I know how things can quickly turn very ugly.
A gun is just a tool, for better or worse.

Unfortunately there is a sizable portion of the population that is willing to rob, rape, kill, do whatever in order to enrich themselves either for pure amusement or for only 20 bucks.
If that person is in your vehicle sitting behind you it's already too late, you've lost the battle.
The only weapon you may have available to you is the fact that you're behind the wheel controlling the vehicle, you can try to crash it into another vehicle or an object and try to attract witnesses and hope the person behind you isn't wearing a seatbelt.

For a woman driver rather than carrying a gun I think a better self-defense option would be to limit where you drive and the hours you drive.
As far as home defense I'm definitely pro gun, that and a good dog are your best defense options while at home.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Jon77 said:


> The only weapon you may have available to you is the fact that you're behind the wheel controlling the vehicle, you can try to crash it into another vehicle or an object and try to attract witnesses and hope the person behind you isn't wearing a seatbelt.


Cars can be quite the weapon.

Hammering/stabbing brakes/throttle and erratic moves at the wheel can knock them around enough to give you time to take other action that doesn't involve crashing.

Odds are if they're trying to mess with you they don't have a belt on and most in my market seem not to use them anyway.

To your Compton comment, we have similar areas here and it's not uncommon to end up on a one way street that has a car stopped in the middle with cars parked on both sides. If a car comes up behind you you are trapped and can't use the car as a weapon. If it's a setup, your only chance is to fight your way out. That's really the only scenario I can think of in my market where a firearm would be handy for rideshare.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

ANT 7 said:


> The key thing to remember is that people on meth, crack, and some other drugs are often impervious to pepper spray and things like that.


I've been punched in the face one time in my whole life and that person was on meth. Also that person would have NEVER done that to me sober. That's why drug addicts to me are the worst. Worse then drunks.

Why doesnt pepper spray work? I thought it blinded them temporary? Or is it the burning they no longer feel so they can keep their eyes open?


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> I've been punched in the face one time in my whole life and that person was on meth. Also that person would have NEVER done that to me sober. That's why drug addicts to me are the worst. Worse then drunks.
> 
> Why doesnt pepper spray work? I thought it blinded them temporary? Or is it the burning they no longer feel so they can keep their eyes open?


Pepper spray works on the majority of people. Usually if you just show your pepper spray can that alone means you win and they back off.

He's just saying pepper spray doesn't work for the rare case scenario that you're dealing with a PCP high crackfiend. Those are the guys that can run butt naked through a fence and stuff. They will be the type where unless you break their arm or shoot them you will have trouble incapacitating them. The drugs throw off their nervous system and they don't feel things they would feel otherwise.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> Why doesnt pepper spray work? I thought it blinded them temporary? Or is it the burning they no longer feel so they can keep their eyes open?


It's subjective to the individual. Same with a Taser.

Pepper spray - some aren't really that bothered by it. Glasses might prevent it from entering their eyes. Some may also have been trained to fight through it (law enforcement, military).

Taser - as in an actual "TASER". Requires at least two prongs to make contact to complete the circuit. One might miss. Clothing can block one or both of the prongs. Again, the individual may not be affected by it.

Stun gun - same as above with the need for actual skin contact up close.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

This is another good video to watch specifically on rideshare self defense.






Watch over that and you'll about 100 percent ensure you'll never have to shoot your gun. There's all kinds of warning signals and things that lead to the majority of this stuff. Have a gun if you need it, but your head is still the strongest thing you have.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Let's look at a few cases involving armed RS drivers.

First, this case. An Uber driver picked up a woman from a bar. Another woman's boyfriend thought he took off with his girlfriend and chased them down, forcing the driver to stop.

He exits his vehicle, approaching the car with aggregation, pointing an object at the driver. "You know I have a pistol, right?! I'll kill you!"

The Uber driver shot once, killing the man. The object turned out to be a cell phone. The Uber driver began CPR and has said that the experience destroyed him mentally.

But, he had seconds to make a decision. The guy said he had a gun, was gesturing in the dark, and threatened to use lethal force.

Now let's say that this man was pointing a gun at the driver and his occupant. It's very likely that both the driver and his pax would have been shot.

The driver was not charged, under the "Stand your Ground" laws. 





Here's a situation where doing anything but complying would have been deadly. It also underscores knowing areas to avoid, especially at night, and keeping aware of your surroundings. 





And, in recent news, a driver that shot his pax after an altercation. I have mixed feelings on this one, unfortunately it was not captured on camera. DASH CAM!

https://www.kron4.com/news/national/uber-driver-acquitted-of-murder-in-shooting-death-of-passenger/


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Let's look at a few cases involving armed RS drivers.
> 
> First, this case. An Uber driver picked up a woman from a bar. Another woman's boyfriend thought he took off with his girlfriend and chased them down, forcing the driver to stop.
> 
> ...


Wish more Leo's were like Grady Judd.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> The Uber driver shot once, killing the man. The object turned out to be a cell phone. The Uber driver began CPR and has said that the experience destroyed him mentally.


This is another reason why I'm not a fan of guns in rideshare. That situation could have been dealt with without a gun. Self defense training gives you enough room to kill or incapacitate someone 2 feet away with you with your bare hands. Better off just learning CQC/self defense stuff for rideshare. They're right next to you any way.

Your hands are capable of incapacitating easily. You just have to learn how to do it and you likely won't kill somebody who had a cell phone or bag of skittles in their hand and ruin your mental life. Guns shoot 1500 feet, so you don't really need something that shoots 1500 feet for someone a foot away.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> This is another reason why I'm not a fan of guns in rideshare. That situation could have been dealt with without a gun. Self defense training gives you enough room to kill or incapacitate someone 2 feet away with you with your bare hands. Better off just learning CQC/self defense stuff for rideshare. They're right next to you any way.


So, in the first case, if the guy had a gun like he said, you'd get out and karate chop him before he pulled the trigger?


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Gtown Driver said:


> This is another reason why I'm not a fan of guns in rideshare. That situation could have been dealt with without a gun. Self defense training gives you enough room to kill or incapacitate someone 2 feet away with you with your bare hands. Better off just learning CQC/self defense stuff for rideshare. They're right next to you any way.
> 
> Your hands are capable of incapacitating easily. You just have to learn how to do it and you likely won't kill somebody who had a cell phone or bag of skittles in their hand and ruin your mental life.


Ummmm, if that other driver had a gun instead of a cell phone you'd be dead before you can get out of the car. Maybe you could run him over...


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> So, in the first case, if the guy had a gun like he said, you'd get out and karate chop him before he pulled the trigger?


Like I said, the majority of these people don't have guns. I just play it by the statistics of it. Especially if you're in a suburban/city area these people that act out are usually just regular people who don't have guns on them that get pissed off at something you do or say. They're usually not the gun/knife wielding weirdos that trying to run into a store and kill people.

The people that tend to do this are the every day Joe 60k a year dude who's just pissed off that a girl turned him down at a bar. You can deal with someone like that with your hands if you learn self defense training. Without your hands you can just use deescalation.

I agree that there are rare ass scenarios where gun is maybe your only shot, but if they have self defense training also they can just knock your gun out of your hand or grab it and use it against you. Close quarters means your gun is a weapon that can turn against you. It's not like being outside where you have distance. If it goes bad in 2 feet of space, your gun is now being pointed at you.

In 2 feet of space I'd rather have someone turn my mace against me than my gun against me. If you have the gun on you then that's great. It's just with any self defense training in that close of a situation, you have a bajillion tools that are better than a gun and don't have your gun within reach of someone who can CQC turn it around on you. Plus just not letting it get to that point to begin with.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> Your hands are capable of incapacitating easily. You just have to learn how to do it and you likely won't kill somebody who had a cell phone or bag of skittles in their hand and ruin your mental life. Guns shoot 1500 feet, so you don't really need something that shoots 1500 feet for someone a foot away.


I really like you a lot. But please don't try to become a Ninja master if someone is threatening to kill you. And perhaps train with firearms a bit to understand how it all works.

This driver did absolutely the right thing. He just so happened to be in the police academy.

Put yourself in a situation where you are being run off the road in the dark, some crazy guy jumps out of a truck saying he has a gun and is going to kill you, you're armed, and you have SECONDS to make a decision.

That's at the heart of just about every police shooting. Civilian self defense does not receive the same press.



Gtown Driver said:


> Like I said, the majority of these people don't have guns. I just play it by the statistics of it. Especially if you're in a suburban/city area these people that act out are usually just regular people who don't have guns at them that get pissed off at something you do or say. They're usually not the gun/knife weilding weirdos that trying to run into a store and kill people.
> 
> The people that tend to do this are the every day Joe 60k a year dude who's just pissed off that a girl turned him down at a bar. You can deal with someone like that with your hands if you learn self defense training. Without your hands you can just use deescalation.
> 
> ...


Excellent points. That's why you formulate a plan.

Mine - stop the car if I'm moving, perhaps by means of a utility pole. Exit, run. Simple.

Less lethal first. OC, create a distance, prepare for lethal.

The videos I posted are excellent examples. First was a threat from outside the vehicle. Second was both inside and outside - amazed that they didn't shoot the driver, but he pulled away and the dude in the back decided he didn't want a ride.

Had the second driver pulled a gun, OC, or tried a karate chop - lights out. It's about waiting for your turn in cases like that.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Gtown Driver said:


> .
> The people that tend to do this are the every day Joe 60k a year dude who's just pissed off that a girl turned him down at a bar. You can deal with someone like that with your hands if you learn self defense training. Without your hands you can just use deescalation.


You may be right, but are you really willing to bet your life on it? I've seen the whole press conference from when that happened and that dude had some serious issues. If he was armed, which is fairly common in FL, there's a high likelihood you would be dead no matter how good you are at cqc.

To me, that case was the rare example where carrying while doing rideshare would come in handy.

A deranged dude follows me for miles, eventually forces me off the road and who comes running out at me while saying he has a gun? Yeah, I have no interest in being like hey bro let's talk and then go all street fighter on him when he gets closer.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Like I said, I generally agree with you that there are RARE scenarios where there is something happening outside of your car and you want a gun for that range. From the majority of rideshare attacks I've seen and heard of, they can be dealt with without a gun.



Benjamin M said:


> Excellent points. That's why you formulate a plan.
> 
> Mine - stop the car if I'm moving, perhaps by means of a utility pole. Exit, run. Simple.
> 
> ...


A gun can save you from outside scenarios, but anyone that has a gun should also generally learn CQC stuff so they have more tools to not have to pull the gun.






There's no ninja stuff here. This is stuff that anyone with a gun wants to know any way so they have more reasons to not use their gun. In the majority of these 2 feet of space encounters, if you have CQC/self defense training you've just given yourself a ton more tools to never have to shoot and also possibly take a gun away from someone who's pointing it at you.

Gun covers the other scenarios, but the more you equip yourself with tools that don't require you to use your gun the less you'll have to use it. Just never felt that gun training ensures you won't die and the majority of rideshare attacks are these 2 feet deals that don't need a gun.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> Like I said, I generally agree with you that there are RARE scenarios where there is something happening outside of your car and you want a gun for that range. From the majority of rideshare attacks I've seen and heard of, they can be dealt with without a gun.
> 
> A gun can save you from outside scenarios, but anyone that has a gun should also generally learn CQC stuff so they have more tools to not have to pull the gun.
> 
> ...


Agreed, wholeheartedly. As I've said in this thread, lethal force is a last ditch option. But I'd rather have that option than not.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

E30addixt said:


> You may be right, but are you really willing to bet your life on it? I've seen the whole press conference from when that happened and that dude had some serious issues. If he was armed, which is fairly common in FL, there's a high likelihood you would be dead no matter how good you are at cqc.
> 
> To me, that case was the rare example where carrying while doing rideshare would come in handy.
> 
> A deranged dude follows me for miles, eventually forces me off the road and who comes running out at me while saying he has a gun? Yeah, I have no interest in being like hey bro let's talk and then go all street fighter on him when he gets closer.


You have a point, but again the majority of these scenarios are literally street fighter scenarios.

I agree with anyone who carries a gun for that extra protection from those other scenarios, but from what I've seen the high majority of issues could have been deal with just utilizing deescalation/self defense. If you want to cover every base have a gun + CQC, but I just haven't personally seen enough cases of this stuff where I would go "yeah I need to get a gun or else".

I respect those that want to carry that 1500 foot range weapon, just personally not for me.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> I respect those that want to carry that 1500 foot range weapon, just personally not for me.


Most self defense shootings occur around ten feet or less. That's why if you charge a police officer, odds are the first tool he grabs is a gun.

In fact, many CCW guns don't even have sights. Point and shoot because the distance is small.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Amos69 said:


> True but, It is most likely the only tool you own who's intended and sole purpose is to kill


A firearm has a sole purpose... to be capable to propel a projectile through the air at high velocity. My intended purpose for my firearm is not to kill anyone, but to save lives by presenting it and possibly firing high velocity projectiles... killing only if need be.

6 out of 7 people shot by a handgun survive per Dr. Andreas Grabinsky, and most people give up upon mere presentation of a firearm. Most who do not will give up upon first discharge, and most who do not will give up upon being hit by one bullet. Only a tiny minority of people need to be shot to the point that they die. Further, last time I ran into a burning house to save a dog, it occurred to me that if the fire got to the front door before I got out of the bedroom, I could probably shoot the window out. I would have to be careful to shoot it at an angle that no one could be harmed, but it was on my mind.

I also have certain firearms that were designed for and that I only use for bullseye and similar purposes, and while I would use them to kill if I had no other firearm, those particular ones are not for that purpose. A .32 S&W long Hammerli 280, a common olympic pistol, could be lethal against a person who was unarmored, particularly if fired towards the head. But it is chambered in an obsolete cartridge that stopped being marketed for self-defense nearly 100 years ago. It is short ranged and does not have good penetrating power. The Hammerli 280 also features an overly large grip and a magazine outside of the magazine well. These features add bulk in the name of ergonomics to maximize bullseye potential, but they wouldn't be typically favored by a person who wants a compact defensive pistol. The Hammerli 280 was designed from the ground up as a sport pistol and any use outside of it would clearly be an abberation.

I own a rifle in .17 HMR. My sole purpose for this rifle is to detonate binary explosives for amusement, and I intentionally chose this diminutive but high speed caliber so that the rifle was relatively quiet and low recoil, while still being very accurate and with enough kinetic energy per square inch to detonate the explosive compound. Although the gun was designed to kill small rodents, it is not intended for that purpose by me. It could kill a person in a pinch, but it is far weaker than recommended for that purpose.... and I do not enjoy killing and will never shoot a rodent with it and cannot imagine shooting a person with it unless if all ammunition sales stopped and I used up all of my ammo in practically every other gun I own first.

The reason I own many different guns is because each one has a different purpose. A sizeable fraction are intended to be used as a weapon. They are each capable of inflicting death, but even the ones I intend as weapons only have death as an acceptable side-effect of the intended use, not the primary purpose.

Handguns in general are designed as defensive weapons. Firearms are (usually) designed to be capable of killing, but rarely is that the intended use, which is generally a more broad use as a weapon. I would argue in fact, that the only guns that are specifically intended to kill where anything less than killing would be undesirable are hunting guns, or perhaps a sniper rifle intended for assassination. In a self-defense or military capacity, surrender of the opposing force is an equal or better outcome, and in the military sense, even wounds that do not kill are highly beneficial if the adversary is of the type to tend to their wounded. Flamethrowers, while useful at burning people, I have heard are particularly likely to cause an adversary to surrender. Except in limited situations, I would guess a rifle is a better killing tool, but probably not as terrifying. The military doesn't appear to use flamethrowers right now, but when they were in use, the psychological effect was probably a major reason for the use. In the military and police sense, the presence of firearms is often used as a deterrent and control tool during patrols and guarding procedures. That's why sometimes the military issues rifles to people without ammo, (which seems dumb to me, but I digress).

One reason a bodyguard friend of mine chooses a handgun with a steel frame rather than a plastic frame, is because he can use the frame of the gun itself as a bludgeon. This point he made was convincing and he described to me situations where he had done just that. A defensive handgun is a better projectile launcher than bludgeoning tool, but ultimately it is a weapon and the purpose is to stop the threat by any means necessary, which doesn't always mean inflicting death.

Firearms are sometimes used as an executioner's tool, but are not generally marketed that way.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Most self defense shootings occur around ten feet or less. That's why if you charge a police officer, odds are the first tool he grabs is a gun.


That, plus being in a country where guns are very accessible to anyone. Where the problem starts to begin with. In Australia the last thing they had remotely close to a one man terrorist/attacker was stopped by some chairs laying around that the police picked up.

If I were to go get a gun though, I still wouldn't use it until I've run through CQC/self defense training. I'd rather know that I have every option available that I can sense before having to pull out the gun ultimatum. I'd rather know that I can be the guy that can do something other than make them bleed with a weapon that can shoot multiple football fields across if I can do that.

Just never going to be a fan of the shoot first at any fidgeting motion in a close quarters scenario.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> That, plus being in a country where guns are very accessible to anyone. Where the problem starts to begin with. In Australia the last thing they had remotely close to a one man terrorist/attacker was stopped by some chairs laying around that the police picked up.
> 
> If I were to go get a gun though, I still wouldn't use it until I've run through CQC/self defense training. I'd rather know that I have every option available that I can sense before having to pull out the gun ultimatum. I'd rather know that I can be the guy that can do something other than make them bleed with a weapon that can shoot multiple football fields across if I can do that.


Please go to a range. Research guns and ballistics. I agree with you, and I'll say it again, last ditch.

As for the first part, our nation's history battling invading forces is to thank.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Gtown Driver said:


> You have a point, but again the majority of these scenarios are literally street fighter scenarios.
> 
> I agree with anyone who carries a gun for that extra protection from those other scenarios, but from what I've seen the high majority of issues could have been deal with just utilizing deescalation/self defense. If you want to cover every base have a gun + CQC, but I just haven't personally seen enough cases of this stuff where I would go "yeah I need to get a gun or else".
> 
> I respect those that want to carry that 1500 foot range weapon, just personally not for me.


To each their own, and I agree the larger the tool box the more options you have for a good outcome without going lethal. I think you discount how useful and/or appropriate firearms can be for some people though.



Gtown Driver said:


> That, plus being in a country where guns are very accessible to anyone. Where the problem starts to begin with.


That genie is already out of the bottle and will never go away no matter how badly some politicians want it to, or think they can make happen.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

E30addixt said:


> To each their own, and I agree the larger the tool box the more options you have for a good outcome without going lethal. I think you discount how useful and/or appropriate firearms can be for some people though.
> 
> 
> That genie is already out of the bottle and will never go away no matter how badly some politicians want it to, or think they can make happen.


Not really trying to do that necessarily, just that I've yet to see a great number of rideshare attacks where a gun was absolutely necessary to deal with it and guns should be a FARRRRR off option in 2 feet of space. Like all of the scenarios I can think of in rideshare where I would need a gun they would be scenarios where I would already be in some high crime area where I'd need to shoot people 10 to 100 feet away acting cray cray any way. For rideshare, there's just so many options before needing to utilize something that fires a bunch times farther than 2 feet away.

America will definitely always be about guns and it's a good and not so good thing. In the beginning they were necessary to protect from civil war, but nothing was done to regulate so we are where we are. It'd be nice if we could be like the Swiss where they can just find a way to just civilly utilize guns, but it's just a different culture there also.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> Not really trying to do that necessarily, just that I've yet to see a great number of rideshare attacks where a gun was absolutely necessary to deal with it and guns should be a FARRRRR off option in 2 feet of space. Like all of the scenarios I can think of in rideshare where I would need a gun they would be scenarios where I would already be in some high crime area where I'd need to shoot people 10 to 100 feet away acting cray cray any way. For rideshare, there's just so many options before needing to utilize something that fires a bunch times farther than 2 feet away.
> 
> America will definitely always be about guns and it's a good and not so good thing. In the beginning they were necessary to protect from civil war, but nothing was done to regulate so we are where we are. It'd be nice if we could be like the Swiss where they can just find a way to just civilly utilize guns, but it's just a different culture there also.


It's an *option.*

If you don't like guns, disagree with the politics surrounding them, and don't want to own or carry one - absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I am a registered Democrat. I believe we have a huge issue with guns in America. It's also that huge issue that, in part, made me decide to carry. It's us responsible guyes (?) that I support.

Unfortunately, they're here to stay. Regulations will not work but there is definitely room for improvement. For example, I can sell someone a gun here without any background check or even a bill of sale. It would be stupid but legal.

But I digress. This thread is about carrying while doing RS, not the politics around the 2nd A.

Oh, I also don't support fully semi-automatic guns, AK-15s, or extended magazine clips.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Background checks mainly disarm the reformed criminal who suddenly decides to follow the law. If all guns were outlawed, and all black market guns magically disappeared, I could manufacture one from scratch pretty easily.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> Background checks mainly disarm the reformed criminal who suddenly decides to follow the law. If all guns were outlawed, and all black market guns magically disappeared, I could manufacture one from scratch pretty easily.


I'm a firm believer that we need to expand the process by scrutinizing mental health history. But that's extremely challenging.

However, there have been many cases where mass shooters have legally acquired their firearms despite multiple red flags. Perhaps an improved reporting system?

It's also a double edge sword. Go to a psychologist, say you're depressed, and they decide "no gun for you" - despite not being a risk to yourself or the community.

Definitely complex.

Oh, and I can't carry in Pennsylvania anymore because they expanded their process and deemed ours too weak. I agree with the change but it's a bummer.


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## Jon77 (Dec 6, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> Not really trying to do that necessarily, just that I've yet to see a great number of rideshare attacks where a gun was absolutely necessary to deal with it and guns should be a FARRRRR off option in 2 feet of space. Like all of the scenarios I can think of in rideshare where I would need a gun they would be scenarios where I would already be in some high crime area where I'd need to shoot people 10 to 100 feet away acting cray cray any way. For rideshare, there's just so many options before needing to utilize something that fires a bunch times farther than 2 feet away.
> 
> America will definitely always be about guns and it's a good and not so good thing. In the beginning they were necessary to protect from civil war, but nothing was done to regulate so we are where we are. It'd be nice if we could be like the Swiss where they can just find a way to just civilly utilize guns, but it's just a different culture there also.


 The root of our problem here in the United States is not so much the weapons, but it is the culture.
I spent some time in Switzerland and I felt completely safe there.
We definitely have a big problem here, the question is how to protect the second amendment and at the same time prohibiting idiots from getting a hold of mass destruction artillery.
I'm afraid we might have passed the point of no return, there may be no viable or workable solution.
I'm old enough to remember a time when you didn't have to worry about going to the mall or going to see a movie at the theater.
I remember a time before the first shooting that really started this psychopathic trend, the one at the San Ysidro McDonald's in 1984.
America has a culture sickness that seems to be getting worse.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> Background checks mainly disarm the reformed criminal who suddenly decides to follow the law. If all guns were outlawed, and all black market guns magically disappeared, I could manufacture one from scratch pretty easily.


Yup. Criminals don't care about laws. Regs just make sheeple feel safer. In effect they do more to hurt regular people then help them.

Perfect local example to me is the convicted felon who shot up a church. Pretty sure there are numerous laws violated there but that sure didn't stop anyone....https://www.wmur.com/article/pelham-new-hampshire-church-incident/29447808


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> I'm a firm believer that we need to expand the process by scrutinizing mental health history. But that's extremely challenging.


And that is precisely why I refuse to entertain the idea of ever seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist/psychotherapist and hesitate to enter any doctors office if I can avoid it. Anything you say could be used 10 years from now to strip you of your liberties. I remember having to fill out a questionaire at an optometrist office several years ago. They wouldn't let me get prescription lenses without first filling out a form that asked questions like, "on a scale of 1 to 10, how happy are you." 10 out of 10 of course, was my answer, and will be my answer to all such questions. "Have you ever contemplated suicide?" "Of course NOT!", I will answer. Ask any doctor I've seen, and they'd tell you I'm a happy bunny that sees the world through rose-tinted lenses.


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> And the vast majority of people that carry hope to never use their gun for the purpose of taking a life.


Fixed it for you 
"And the vast majority of people that carry hope to never use their gun for the purpose of taking saving a life."


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Jon77 said:


> at the same time prohibiting idiots from getting a hold of mass destruction artillery.


little diesel and fertilizer, or a pressure cooker or.......

It's not the objects, it's the people. Until society wakes the **** up and focuses on the people instead of the objects no laws are gonna stop shit. Simply look at the British.......they still blame objects and the underlying problems haven't been addressed. Now they want I.D. and minimum ages to purchase butter knives, like that's gonna solve anything :thumbdown:


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Tarvus said:


> Fixed it for you :wink:
> "And the vast majority of people that carry hope to never use their gun for the purpose of taking saving a life."


Seriously??? ?



Trafficat said:


> And that is precisely why I refuse to entertain the idea of ever seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist/psychotherapist and hesitate to enter any doctors office if I can avoid it. Anything you say could be used 10 years from now to strip you of your liberties. I remember having to fill out a questionaire at an optometrist office several years ago. They wouldn't let me get prescription lenses without first filling out a form that asked questions like, "on a scale of 1 to 10, how happy are you." 10 out of 10 of course, was my answer, and will be my answer to all such questions. "Have you ever contemplated suicide?" "Of course NOT!", I will answer. Ask any doctor I've seen, and they'd tell you I'm a happy bunny that sees the world through rose-tinted lenses.


At the same time -

Entered a doctor's office with an empty holster and I was berated for not carrying. "Did you see a sign? I didn't see a sign!" Next appointment, he examined my "unit" and my "piece".

Mentioned to a psychologist about being bummed out that I couldn't afford to visit the range. That became a topic, "so, have you gone yet?"

Granted, this is Virginia. ?


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

Jon77 said:


> I remember a time before the first shooting that really started this psychopathic trend, the one at the San Ysidro McDonald's in 1984.
> America has a culture sickness that seems to be getting worse.


Actually, on August 1, 1966, Charles Whitman started the psychopathic trend with the University of Texas tower shootings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Tarvus said:


> Actually, on August 1, 1966, Charles Whitman started the psychopathic trend with the University of Texas tower shootings.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting


With a bolt action no less.....:whistling:


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Tarvus said:


> Actually, on August 1, 1966, Charles Whitman started the psychopathic trend with the University of Texas tower shootings.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting


The McDonald's reference reminded me of the Luby's massacre and this testimony






PLEASE watch this video in its entirely. It's a great example of why many carry.

Such shootings are becoming increasingly common, sadly.

There was also a Walmart shooting a while ago, a CCW holder drew down on the gunman. He didn't realize that his wife was behind him with a gun. That's where training and situational awareness is extremely important.


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Seriously??? ?


Yes, seriously.
I think you would agree that the ONLY time lethal force should be used is when one is presented with a life threatening situation. If you shoot someone, the ONLY reason should be to save a life - be it your own or someone else's. If that necessitates taking a life, fine, but the motivating factor is to save a life, not to take one.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Tarvus said:


> Yes, seriously.
> I think you would agree that the ONLY time lethal force should be used is when one is presented with a life threatening situation. If you shoot someone, the ONLY reason should be to save a life - be it your own or someone else's. If that necessitates taking a life, fine, but the motivating factor is to save a life, not to take one.


Have I said anything to the contrary? No, not even close. So I'm lost.


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## Jon77 (Dec 6, 2018)

Tarvus said:


> Actually, on August 1, 1966, Charles Whitman started the psychopathic trend with the University of Texas tower shootings.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting


 Howard Unroe actually was the first idiot.
He went on a shooting rampage in a residential neighborhood in 1949.
That idiot just died recently, he spent all those years in prison.
There was a long lull till the Texas University in Austin shooting in 1966.
But the modern mass shootings did not really takeoff till after San Ysidro.


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Have I said anything to the contrary? No, not even close. So I'm lost.


I thought your "Seriously???" comment was disputing this. If I misunderstood your intent with that comment, my apologies.


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## Jon77 (Dec 6, 2018)

Tarvus said:


> Actually, on August 1, 1966, Charles Whitman started the psychopathic trend with the University of Texas tower shootings.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting


 In the mid 80s I actually helped some friends move to Austin, and the house they rented was one street over from the University tower.
Walking around the neighborhood it felt very disturbing to realize what had happened less than 20 years prior.


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## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

kingcorey321 said:


> its not always the passenger .
> once i was in my older porch 15 years old but i kept it looking brand new.
> it was all planned out for people to car jack me .
> i am driving the car in front slams the brakes the car behind me on my ass complete stop . what do i see ? a guy running from the ditch with a gun pointing at me ! what did he see ? a gun pointing back at him ! almost had to shoot him few more feet . i scream at him whats up mother f ! . he ran off waving his arms car in front drove off peeling out . this was 2 minutes from my home . another time legally carrying my pistol detroit michigan by the way my nephew and i were going to a market. what do we see 2 guys walking in the middle of the street pointing at us my car truck behind me can back up ! i pull my pistol out to put it onto my lap nephew asks why ? possible bad guys ! we cant drive anywhere basically screwed . choice run them over or drive slowly see if they let us threw idk wtf they want really not feeling safe here . drove slowly 1 guy stood in the middle of the road other walked up to my window see the gun on my lap waved at the other guy standing in front block me to move ! we drove past . the next day you see my praised porch on craigs list being sold . i bought a pos truck smashed up never had an issue again .
> to cover my ass will say this entire store is fictional i dont need to be arrested from sharing my experiences .


That's crazy!! Glad you're ok ?? yes I agree that there is way more likely to be an outside threat like your (fictional ?) one or road ragey type incident . It's also not advised to park in a bad area. Keep moving. Having to shoot a pax is highly unlikely though.. I'm sticking to that statement!


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> That's crazy!! Glad you're ok ?? yes I agree that there is way more likely to be an outside threat like your (fictional ?) one or road ragey type incident . It's also not advised to park in a bad area. Keep moving. Having to shoot a pax is highly unlikely though.. I'm sticking to that statement!


I have come to your side the non dark side of no gun in RS (but yes gun in home).

I'm sticking to my pepper spray. Maybe a screw driver in car?.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> I have come to your side the non dark side of no gun in RS (but yes gun in home).
> 
> I'm sticking to my pepper spray. Maybe a screw driver in car?.


It's not the "dark side".

Look, we're picking up strangers in our own vehicles, sometimes in bad areas. We risk being deactivated for legally carrying a firearm. It's my car and my life.

But, as I've said, I don't think that you - at this moment - are someone who should be carrying.

I encourage you to visit the range. Pay special attention to the safety video that they will show you (likely the same one attached).

Even if you are going with someone with some experience, let the Range Safety Officer (RSO) know that you are a first time shooter. In my experience, shooting in four states, they're incredibly friendly and just there to make sure people are having fun and being safe.

Check it off your bucket list, as my friend's wife did recently. But remember to actually aim, unlike her at first - poor ceiling. ?






At 5:53 in the video, he makes a mistake. Racks the slide and THEN drops the mag. Yet, passed editing and shown at ranges across the country ?


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## Jon77 (Dec 6, 2018)

E30addixt said:


> little diesel and fertilizer, or a pressure cooker or.......
> 
> It's not the objects, it's the people. Until society wakes the @@@@ up and focuses on the people instead of the objects no laws are gonna stop shit. Simply look at the British.......they still blame objects and the underlying problems haven't been addressed. Now they want I.D. and minimum ages to purchase butter knives, like that's gonna solve anything :thumbdown:


 It's not only about murder it's also about the method.
For terrorist they generally don't care they just want to kill, but for these mass shooters it's different there is a psychological angle to it.
They fantasize about shooting people and shooting lots of people.
I have a hell of an artillery, I grew up around weapons, my father actually went through the background check to legally own an NFA firearm, so we had two fully automatic weapons.
One was a M-16 A1 and the other one was a M3 grease gun.
I started buying various assault rifles back when nobody even knew what an AR15 was.










I have no problem with mentally stable people owning weapons.
But the type of weaponry I have I sure as hell do not want it finding its way into the hands of some idiot who fantasizes about mowing down people for sport.
Let the ****** try to build a bomb hopefully he'll blow himself up.

Class III are called the safest weapons in the US.
The reason for that is because the background check is very thorough, very extensive, I believe there's only been one murder that was committed with a fully automatic machine gun, a stolen Uzi if I recall correctly.
There's tons of machine guns that are currently legally owned.
But they're not involved in murders or mass shootings.

Maybe people are being mass murdered in Britain with butter knives, but they're not being murdered at the same insane rate as what's happening here in the United States.

I support the Second Amendment both from a conservative libertarian point of view and as a practical reality.
Ultimately the safety of yourself and your family depends only on one person, and it ain't the police.
But I want to make sure these things do not fall into the wrong hands.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

I can't recommend a gun to any driver (too much training required) but I think a Kimber Pepper Blaster would be perfect for you. Just jump out of the car if they get froggy, and if they come up on you after that, just blast 'em in the face...Twice!


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> It's not the "dark side".
> 
> Look, we're picking up strangers in our own vehicles, sometimes in bad areas. We risk being deactivated for legally carrying a firearm. It's my car and my life.
> 
> ...


X squeeze me but this is my thread. I tell you what to do! J/k ?

I still want a gun. I feel really excited about it, including going to the gun range. Of course this is subject to change once I hold one but I really dont think so.


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## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> IN LOUISIANA
> THE CAR IS AN EXTENSION OF THE HOME
> YOU NEED NO PERMIT TO CONCEAL OR CARRY IN YOUR CAR
> BY LAW.


Same in Texas.

The only requirement is that if it's in your ride it must be concealed.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Jon77 said:


> It's not only about murder it's also about the method.
> For terrorist they generally don't care they just want to kill, but for these mass shooters it's different there is a psychological angle to it.
> They fantasize about shooting people and shooting lots of people.
> I have a hell of an artillery, I grew up around weapons, my father actually went through the background check to legally own an NFA firearm, so we had two fully automatic weapons.
> ...


I mistook your original comment as the typical "no one needs an AR etc..."

Agreed that finding a way to keep them out of the wrong hands should be a goal so long as it doesn't screw the rest of us in the process.



Mkang14 said:


> X squeeze me but this is my thread. I tell you what to do! J/k ?
> 
> I still want a gun. I feel really excited about it, including going to the gun range. Of course this is subject to change once I hold one but I really dont think so.


Moving slow and not making an emotional decision is smart. Owning guns and carrying them are two different things and not for everybody. Researching what is right for you, and thinking about why, is important.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> X squeeze me but this is my thread. I tell you what to do! J/k ?
> 
> I still want a gun. I feel really excited about it, including going to the gun range. Of course this is subject to change once I hold one but I really dont think so.


Get some, girl!! ?

Go shooting ASAP. Watch the last video I posted a few times. Talk with the RSO.

You'll be nervous. You will flinch, that's human nature. You'll suck at first. But it can be a lot of fun and a huge stress dump.

I learned how to shoot at around 8. My grandfather, a veteran, wanted his grandson to be proficient with firearms and learn to respect them.

Still have my first gun, a 22 German Youth rifle. Cleaned it up and shot it with a friend a couple of years ago.

Also have to keep in mind that you're in California. A huge part of gun ownership is knowing your state's laws. Your state is a bit strict. So research that as well. 

@Mkang14 above all else, remember two things.

First, "trigger discipline" - or, "keep your booger hook off the bang bang switch" until you are ready to shoot. This is especially important for self defense.

This (target shooting or clearing your house) - 









Not this -










Why? Because if someone or something startles you in a stressful situation, you're likely to react by squeezing the trigger. Identify your target and then transition your booger hook to the bang bang switch. This takes training, but it's also gun safety 101.

Secondly, never point a gun at anything that you do not intend to destroy. Loaded or unloaded. Especially the latter, because there have been many cases of a firearm thought to be unloaded when it wasn't.

Your RSO will likely have a plastic red or orange training gun to help you learn the proper grip and stance. Utilize this. And post some pictures after!


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## Jon77 (Dec 6, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> X squeeze me but this is my thread. I tell you what to do! J/k ?
> 
> I still want a gun. I feel really excited about it, including going to the gun range. Of course this is subject to change once I hold one but I really dont think so.


There is a few things I would like to add to this conversation.
For one the most dangerous gun is an "empty" gun.
If you know for sure the gun is loaded you'll be very cautious, but when people believe the gun is empty that's when the guard goes down.

I've had three incidents with supposedly empty weapons.
The first one was my friend from high school pulling the trigger on a "empty" pistol while it was pointed at the ground, bullet landed right next to my foot.
The second incident was my friends kid pulling the trigger on an "empty" 22, the bullet went into our tire.

The problem is we were in the desert and we only had one car, and as we were trying to jack up the car to change the tire the jack was sinking into the sand.
That was a fun one.

The third incident was pretty interesting, me and my shooting buddy went over to an acquaintance's house when he showed us his latest toy, a Bulgarian AK-47.
I only knew my friend in this gathering, there was about six of us there
It turns out one of the guys there was one of the  infamous North Hollywood bank robbery shooters, he was the one that shot himself in the head as he was being surrounded by police at the end.

I felt very uneasy because they were not showing proper respect for the rifle, and where they were pointing the barrel of this weapon.

When they passed it around to me I instinctively pulled back the bolt to check if it was indeed empty, and out flew a live round.
They were passing around a fully loaded rifle with the safety off, all these guys knew weapons and they all failed to check if there was a live round in there.

They just assumed since they all knew weapons somebody had already checked.
Even a seasoned professional bank robber did not follow basic firearm safety.

Assume nothing, but if you have to assume something, assume it is loaded.

The second thing is get a small biometric safe if you want to keep it close to your bed.
To open the safe all you have to do is put your hand on it, it reads your fingerprint so you can open it in emergency quickly.
Even in the dark.
It's easily accessible for you, but nobody else can just open it and use it against you, or steal it without carrying away the whole safe.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Jon77 said:


> There is a few things I would like to add to this conversation.
> For one the most dangerous gun is an "empty" gun.
> If you know for sure the gun is loaded you'll be very cautious, but when people believe the gun is empty that's when the guard goes down.
> 
> ...


Never point a firearm at something that you do not intend to destroy.

I've trained a few noobs on the basics. I either use a dummy gun or what they will be shooting. In all cases, a hunk of plastic or an actual firearm that I have cleared, it's never pointed at a person.

A neighbor of mine came home from work incredibly upset one day. He was a mechanic, carried daily and had a decent collection. The son of his boss had just been killed by an accidental discharge, they were cleaning guns and one of the kids (teenagers) started playing with one, thinking it was unloaded. Bang, dead.

He is a huge supporter of the second amendment, a conservative Republican, etc. But when we talked that evening at his house he indicated to the table, "look, a ****ing gun!"

He did not carry for months after that. I responded to things that went bump in the night, usually when his dogs alerted (life in the woods).


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> I have come to your side the non dark side of no gun in RS (but yes gun in home).
> 
> I'm sticking to my pepper spray. Maybe a screw driver in car?.


pepper spray would of not helped me. but pepper spray works for a pax with no weapons


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

We've talked a lot about different weapons but no one mentioned a high powered flashlight. 1,000 lumens right in someone's eyes is quite the distraction that can buy you some time. It helps read house numbers at night too.

https://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-p...IxWCTerU-uMp48QUjRezzZ0Ao4srZFD0aAiAnEALw_wcB


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

E30addixt said:


> We've talked a lot about different weapons but no one mentioned a high powered flashlight. 1,000 lumens right in someone's eyes is quite the distraction that can buy you some time. It helps read house numbers at night too.
> 
> https://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-p...IxWCTerU-uMp48QUjRezzZ0Ao4srZFD0aAiAnEALw_wcB


Also works great attached to a gun. Just saying ?









But yes, definitely effective


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Also works great attached to a gun. Just saying ?
> 
> View attachment 367127
> 
> But yes, definitely effective


Yup. I may have duct taped it to rifle before buying a proper light for it. Killer range on it.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

E30addixt said:


> Yup. I may have duct taped it to rifle before buying a proper light for it. Killer range on it.


That's when you go for low light or night vision optics ?


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> That's when you go for low light or night vision optics ?


I'm too cheap for that. The good stuff is $$$$


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Sadly, the pistol and light are both cheap. But both work very well.

Smith & Wesson SD9 (Self Defense 9mm) and a generic high power LED light with strobe, a gift from a neighbor kid who just enlisted.

Sadly, he didn't complete Basic. Only speculation on why.



E30addixt said:


> I'm too cheap for that. The good stuff is $$$$


See above ?

Cheap but effective. That pistol has had thousands of rounds put through it, operates perfectly. My trick EDC, hundreds more, not so much.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Sadly, the pistol and light are both cheap. But both work very well.
> 
> Smith & Wesson SD9 (Self Defense 9mm) and a generic high power LED light with strobe, a gift from a neighbor kid who just enlisted.
> 
> Sadly, he didn't complete Basic. Only speculation on why.


Yeah. Like I said, duct tape. At least it was camo though?

Primary Arms has great sales on stuff, especially for Black Friday. I don't have a mounted light on any handguns, but night sights are pretty pimp.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

Come on peeps. My own thread is starting to bore me. Can we start listing minimum requirements to pull the gun out.


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## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


I would probably do something stupid like wave it at a beligerant militant bicyclist just for fun, and then spend the next 10 years on parole. So, nah.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Dropking said:


> I would probably do something stupid like wave it at a beligerant militant bicyclist just for fun, and then spend the next 10 years on parole. So, nah.


That's were tasers come in handy...I dunno what happened, they just started shaking and then crashed?


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

Dropking said:


> I would probably do something stupid like wave it at a beligerant militant bicyclist just for fun, and then spend the next 10 years on parole. So, nah.


Would you even carry a gun or own a gun for protection of your home?


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

E30addixt said:


> Yeah. Like I said, duct tape. At least it was camo though?
> 
> Primary Arms has great sales on stuff, especially for Black Friday. I don't have a mounted light on any handguns, but night sights are pretty pimp.
> 
> View attachment 367131


Nice.

My EDC is an M&P Shield 9mm Performance Center (compact). Less rounds than my cheap SD9. Ported, which is nice, and fiber optic sights - worthless at night.

Bought a tac light (Viridian), because of its size (has to be tiny), ineffective. The included holster also sucked.


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## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> Would you even carry a gun or own a gun for protection of your home?


Sure, but not in a car where it would be too easy to wave it at a jerk. Much more challenging to disarm pax with charm. ?


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Nice.
> 
> My EDC is an M&P Shield 9mm Performance Center (compact). Less rounds than my cheap SD9. Ported, which is nice, and fiber optic sights - worthless at night.
> 
> Bought a tac light (Viridian), because of its size (has to be tiny), ineffective. The included holster also sucked.


The Shield is a neat little gun. I had one with a lot of custom work for a bit. My go to single stack is an XDs now; primary EDC is a G26 and a spare G19 mag.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> Come on peeps. My own thread is starting to bore me. Can we start listing minimum requirements to pull it out.


Well, if she's hot..

Okay, fine.

Let's start with a real life scenario of mine.

Much like tonight, I was outside watching Netflix - except, instead of being in an enclosed apartment complex, I was in a rural area.

I heard gunfire. Not terribly unusual in the area (hunting and target practice) but it was around midnight. The gunfire grew closer and closer.

It became obvious that someone was driving up my country road shooting a pistol. I saw them approaching quickly.

I jumped off the porch and took cover behind a big tree. I pulled my gun and was ready to go. The last shot was right by my mailbox but was not directed at my house.

My wife and pup were sound asleep inside. I did not shoot because neighbors were in the line of fire and it did not appear that the individual was trying to directly shoot me (although their shots were pointed at occupied properties).

I called 911. About three times. Our only two deputies were tied up. A neighbor joined me in protecting our houses and looking for casings. He eventually got tired and I stayed outside.

THREE HOURS LATER, deputies arrived on scene.

That was my one and only time that I pointed a gun at someone prepared to take their life.


----------



## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> Come on peeps. My own thread is starting to bore me. Can we start listing minimum requirements to pull it out.


Become a stripper and sell the guyes the VIP section so they pull it out?


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

I love when pax ask if I have a camera. I reply to them no, but be careful what you do in here. They usually chill out at that point. 

I drive nights only in a massive market. Could be different in other places. But


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## Pace Hire (Feb 23, 2018)

Life safety is more important than anything else. While driving with Uber, you can take gun with you as part of your safety. When we talk about legal things, if you have license of gun then you can take with you if you travel on more risky roads.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> Addressing a couple of points:
> 
> 1) Accidents, They don't happen if you follow the rules of gun safety. #1 point muzzle in safe direection, #2 finger off trigger until ready to shoot. A lot of morons cannot figure that out, and many of them are cops, but it is well within the reach of most people to use guns without accident.
> 
> ...


I used to live in a cane field and practice every week .
I am Expert at Throwing knives & chineese throwing stars. Also expert with butterfly knife.

I am decent with 2 inch barrel .357 from 50 yards.

If ammunition were CHEAPER . . . i would be Expert with pistol with both hands.

What if you are Shot in the side you prefer to shoot with ?

Learning to shoot with Both hands could keep you alive !

i always Wanted to Master Japanese swords.

But after the scars and amount of blood i lost working 2 double edged butterfly knives at once . . .
I decided against swords.

I can still pick up a butterfly knife and work 2 at a time blindfolded. Even tossing hand to hand behind back.
Many cuts to master it.



MHR said:


> Same in Texas.
> 
> The only requirement is that if it's in your ride it must be concealed.


Must be or must not be ?

On a motorcycle it is hard Not to conceal.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> Come on peeps. My own thread is starting to bore me. Can we start listing minimum requirements to pull the gun out.


While a decent cross section of America, this is a poor forum for what you are asking. Here there are opinions of what might be appropriate in their own state, AND political beliefs.

Please do as I suggested and become familiar with Your state requirements and systems. And also become very familiar with whatever firearm you wish to use.

Like Benjamin keeps saying, it is indeed a tool. A tool whose only purpose is to kill, no matter the reasons for killing.



Mkang14 said:


> Come on peeps. My own thread is starting to bore me. Can we start listing minimum requirements to pull the gun out.


Your statement is naïve. If learning about firearms and your legal resources and liabilities BORES you, then you should reconsider the entire concept.

Killing people, nor defending your people should never be boring.


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## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Must be or must not be ?


MUST BE



Mkang14 said:


> Can we start listing minimum requirements to pull the gun out.


I've been taught that you never draw your weapon unless you're planning on using it. So for me, the "requirements" to "pull the gun out" are pretty damn high.

Unless you're a rattle snake or a spider the size of a cat. Then all bets are off.

There's many different types of classes you can take. The next one I'm getting ready to do is close quarters self defense.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

Amos69 said:


> Your statement is naïve. If learning about firearms and your legal resources and liabilities BORES you, then you should reconsider the entire concept.
> 
> Killing people, nor defending your people should never be boring.


Your statement is over the line. Not sure why you had to take it to there. Saying I think killing people bore me. Thanks for the faith in me as a human. I was referring to a 2 way conversation when I prefer multiple inputs. I didnt feel like I was getting anything from the last few statements so as you noticed I tried asking a more engaging follow up.

It's a very long leap there.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you?


Totally!, start playing russian roulette until they tip.



Mkang14 said:


> Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?


Don't shoot yourself... never look down the barrel... safety first 



Mkang14 said:


> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


Longer the muzzle, better the aim.

Hehe, you start small and build your way up. I would suggest go to the range and try different types to get a feel what you like.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

dmoney155 said:


> Totally!, start playing russian roulette until they tip.
> 
> Don't shoot yourself... never look down the barrel... safety first :smiles:
> 
> ...


Shooting range seems like the best first step. I'm pretty excited about this part. I'm going to go there until I feel comfortable with a gun (if I ever feel comfortable). I like that they allow you to test out different types of guns.

You never know until you give it a SHOT ?


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## blackjackross (Dec 16, 2016)

homelesswarlock said:


> Well... let's see. You would have to draw with your left hand if you intend to shoot someone already inside the vehicle.
> 
> If you produced a gun just to scare them straight; how easy would it be for them to snatch it out of your hand and use it against you? (Remember, you are drawing with the left hand)
> 
> The driver is basically a sitting duck.


I agree. After a 24 year military career and two combat deployments I worked 7 years as a security contractor in Iraq and Afghanistan so I'm quite familiar with issues related to personal protection. Someone sitting directly behind you that intends to do you harm, basically has the draw on you, no matter how heavily armed you may be.

Two years ago in a Chicago suburb (Lincolnwood) a 16 year old girl slit an Uber driver's throat with a hunting knife that she has shoplifted from Wal Mart prior to requesting an Uber ride. Her case is still pending trial so we don't know what her motivation was. However, a CCW would not have helped that unfortunate driver. She definitely did not fit the profile that might have alerted the driver to be suspicious of her intentions.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/subu...in-lincolnwood-tl-0608-20170530-13-story.html

BTW, I carried a Glock 19 as my primary and a Ruger 9mm revolver as a ankle carry backup while deployed. Currently my primary CCW is a Glock 19 5th Gen and a hammerless Ruger LCR 9mm 1.87 in. in an ankle holster as a backup-----hammerless means that you don't need to worry about the hammer getting caught up on anything as you draw it.

One last note: You need to practice, practice, practice and try to recreate possible scenarios where you will have to draw your weapon, fire, reload and go to your backup. It's not something you want to attempt for the first time when you really need it.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

blackjackross said:


> One last note: You need to practice, practice, practice and try to recreate possible scenarios where you will have to draw your weapon, fire, reload and go to your backup. It's not something you want to attempt for the first time when you really need it.


It's shockingly different to fire from a seated position in a vehicle. The odds I will ever need to do this are up there with getting struck by lightening, but this little range session was eye opening and fun.


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## MkBrody (Jan 1, 2017)

I already Carry ... have been for 3 years .. Uber and Lyft can GFTS!!


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## LoLo SF (Jul 12, 2019)

I would not carry a gun because even with practice, I'd be afraid f it being turned against me. However, I would consider carrying Drano as it would work wonders to stop an attacker in their tracks. Imagine having so caustic a substance thrown at you. Instant excruciating pain without causing death -- just a snappy disfiguration :jimlad:


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## blackjackross (Dec 16, 2016)

LoLo SF said:


> I would not carry a gun because even with practice, I'd be afraid f it being turned against me. However, I would consider carrying Drano as it would work wonders to stop an attacker in their tracks. Imagine having so caustic a substance thrown at you. Instant excruciating pain without causing death -- just a snappy disfiguration :jimlad:





LoLo SF said:


> I would not carry a gun because even with practice, I'd be afraid f it being turned against me. However, I would consider carrying Drano as it would work wonders to stop an attacker in their tracks. Imagine having so caustic a substance thrown at you. Instant excruciating pain without causing death -- just a snappy disfiguration :jimlad:


That's why you practice. That's how you develop accuracy and confidence in your ability to effectively use a gun. A gun will give you standoff distance. Can you splash Drano on an assailant 15-20 feet away? Also, how likely is it that you would walk around carrying a can of Drano? Do you have a special holster for it?


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

LoLo SF said:


> I would not carry a gun because even with practice, I'd be afraid f it being turned against me.


A few self defense classes will help alleviate that fear.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

E30addixt said:


> It's shockingly different to fire from a seated position in a vehicle. The odds I will ever need to do this are up there with getting struck by lightening, but this little range session was eye opening and fun.
> 
> View attachment 367274


Don't forget your assailant ? is Behind you ???


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Cold Fusion said:


> Don't forget your assailant ? is Behind you ???


Not really worried about rideshare pax attacking me...


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

ZenUber said:


> Plus - don't you guys have that magic underwear out there?


Yep, but it doesn't cover your arms, legs or head ?

<sarcasm> But if they shoot me in the chest, I'm good :thumbup: They make it with a carbon fiber / kevlar mix now. </sarcasm>


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## Mtbsrfun (May 25, 2019)

dauction said:


> The very fact that your dad kept loaded Gun under his bed shows irresponsibility ..it "seems" like a good idea but this is what ends up happening..
> 
> _KTVU learned the boy was visiting Wilson's home when he found a loaded gun underneath a bed and shot himself.
> 
> ...


A gun is useless unless it's kept loaded; anybody that's been robbed or assaulted will tell you that. Seconds are crucial and you can't waste any time. There are other safety measures that consume less time but still are effective.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

E30addixt said:


> Not really worried about rideshare pax attacking me...


You're in bean town I'm in NYC

Friendly reminder Miss Red Sox
Guns, Cops, Jails and Death DO NOT scare bad guys. They think differently than most?
When a bad guy sees a gun
His First, and only thought is to get that gun

And He will chop your head Off to get it ✔

Run along side your car reach in grab your head with both hands and pull
Until your feet leave the pedals and ur car crashes
Then mr bad guy casually takes the piece
unloading a round in ur ear for fun

Then heads for McDonald's for dinner ?? and to show off his new trophy


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## jlong105 (Sep 15, 2017)

dauction said:


> The very fact that your dad kept loaded Gun under his bed shows irresponsibility ..it "seems" like a good idea but this is what ends up happening..
> 
> _KTVU learned the boy was visiting Wilson's home when he found a loaded gun underneath a bed and shot himself.
> 
> ...


Where does she say it was loaded? It could have been in a locked case under the bed.


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

Cold Fusion said:


> You're in bean town I'm in NYC
> 
> Friendly reminder Miss Red Sox
> Guns, Cops, Jails and Death DO NOT scare bad guys. They think differently than most?
> ...


----------



## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


Don't carry a gun unless you practice regularly. Shooting drills, drawing drills, clearing/malfunction drills etc.

Don't carry a gun unless you are willing to use it.

Don't buy into the hype of huge caliber pistols. If you choose to carry a gun, carry one you can competently handle. This means you can rack the slide etc.

Plenty of folks shouldn't carry a gun. Don't be one of those people.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

dauction said:


> The very fact that your dad kept loaded Gun under his bed shows irresponsibility ..it "seems" like a good idea but this is what ends up happening..
> 
> _KTVU learned the boy was visiting Wilson's home when he found a loaded gun underneath a bed and shot himself.
> 
> ...


These tragedies happen because parents don't take the time to educate their kids about guns. You cannot hide anything from a curious child. Teach them how to use and handle guns and the curiosity factor is eliminated. 
A 2 year old does not have the strength or dexterity to chamber a round or cock a revolver. There is more to that story.

If you carry in a vehicle carry on your person. Keeping it in the glove compartment or under the seat or dash puts it too far out of reach to be useful in the less than a second where it would do you any good.
"Please Mr. BadGuy, wait till I get my gun!"


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## rman954 (May 31, 2016)

Gtown Driver said:


> I'm not a fan of guns, so even in a world where it was legal for all rideshare to carry guns I still wouldn't do it.
> 
> I believe in a majority of the scenarios where someone is attacking you in rideshare, you can deal with them without a gun. Rideshare is a very close quarters deal and guns are generally meant for way farther encounters than what is necessary for rideshare. TBH I believe pepper spray or a tazer can deal with the majority of rideshare attacks if you have a window to do it.
> 
> ...


Idk man. They have guns too. Most law enforcement accidental discharges or negligent discharges are due to the complacency level they have. A gun to an FBI agent is part of their uniform. I'm not positive on their training schedule but I'm sure they have some sort of competency and proficiency check every so often. But to most? It's apart of their uniform. What they put on to go to work everyday. You start to lose the respect and fear for it as being an instrument that can cause serious bodily injury or death.

I've been around firearms my entire life and have never had any accidents with one. I keep meticulous track of where my firearm and it's ammunition is. It's either on my person or in the safe.

Never forget what the gun is and capable of. And always *legally* have it with you. You never know when you might need it.

For the record. In 7 years of having a CWP. I've had to pull it twice. 1st time was a road raging lunatic whom followed me to my house. Got out of his car with a baseball bat...

2nd was an incident during an Uber ride...


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

rman954 said:


> Idk man. They have guns too. Most law enforcement accidental discharges or negligent discharges are due to the complacency level they have. A gun to an FBI agent is part of their uniform. I'm not positive on their training schedule but I'm sure they have some sort of competency and proficiency check every so often. But to most? It's apart of their uniform. What they put on to go to work everyday. You start to lose the respect and fear for it as being an instrument that can cause serious bodily injury or death.
> 
> I've been around firearms my entire life and have never had any accidents with one. I keep meticulous track of where my firearm and it's ammunition is. It's either on my person or in the safe.
> 
> ...


U knew u were being followed and went home?
mr baseball bat knows where u live ?
U pulled a weapon on an Uber passenger and didn't get deactivated?

geez, Florida's the OK retiree Corral ?


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## KD_LA (Aug 16, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> *If Carrying Was Uber Okay ? ?*


Far too many guns floating around in this society. :smiles:


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## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

KD_LA said:


> Far too many guns floating around in this society. :smiles:


Far too many shitty humans floating around in this society :thumbup:


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## Uberladysf777 (Nov 27, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


Omg my dad had a giant machete under his bed that he kept "in case of emergency".
One time back in 2006 I was mugged on my front porch as I was putting the key in my front door. 3 teenagers w a gun. He was hesitating to take my purse and I could see in his eyes he was contemplating pushing me in the door to possibly continue more crime. All I could think of was "God don't let this fool in my house-he has no idea who he is about to mess with??‍♀". Luckily he left after I had to tell him to take my purse!


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

jlong105 said:


> Where does she say it was loaded? It could have been in a locked case under the bed.


Ummm really? So your saying she shot herself with a unloaded gun?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Here's my train of thought.

Uber "we don't follow the rules"

Me "i'll follow the law but to heck with uber's rules"

Fired > Dead

I currently have a supeona on my desk for a homicide case. (no comment) 

This world is a terrible place. Cabbies/ubers/whatever see the darkside more than you will ever know.


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## KD_LA (Aug 16, 2017)

E30addixt said:


> Far too many shitty humans floating around in this society :thumbup:


And far too many of those shitty humans floating around are stockpiling/carrying/brandishing guns. -o:


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Here's my train of thought.
> This world is a terrible place. Cabbies/ubers/whatever see the darkside more than you will ever know.


"_Cabbies/ubers/whatever see the darkside more than you will ever know."_
With good reason, making no investment in yourself, no skills, no trade, no education, sloth, never taking responsibility for bad life decisions......
Gets U the "Dark Side" and a "terrible life". pretty simple.

Images of "entry level ground transportation" should be a warning ⚠ to the youth of America
"Don't let this happen to You"


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Cold Fusion said:


> "_Cabbies/ubers/whatever see the darkside more than you will ever know."_
> With good reason, making no investment in yourself, no skills, no trade, no education, sloth, never taking responsibility for bad life decisions......
> Gets U the "Dark Side" and a "terrible life". pretty simple.
> 
> ...


I'm back to just side money, working for the gubment again.

Doing what?

Protecting the world from Terrorists,

and people who try to bring 3.5 fluid ounces of fluid aboard a commercial airliner....


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Please note the OP asked if YOU would carry a gun. This was not an invitation to debate gun control or assert magic ninja skill.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


Yea Mkang carrying a gun while Ubering is already legal.

Actually im gonna tell you a secret. At least 1:10 of your pax was packing.?



Benjamin M said:


> Here we go again. ?
> 
> State law > Uber policy. Uber and Lyft also say that pax cannot be armed. Are you searching your pax?
> 
> ...


To be honest Ben I believe a firearm is better for a woman than a stun gun too.

If I was half the weight of my assailant (Mkang14 would be) the most important thing to me would be to create and keep distance from attacker and draw attention.

Anything goes wrong with a close encounter weapon and a 110 pound woman can end up with a 265 pound man on top of her. At that point all training is void, you are at his mercy.


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## MkBrody (Jan 1, 2017)

would rather be Judged by 12 then carried by 6


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Yea Mkang carrying a gun while Ubering is already legal.
> 
> Actually im gonna tell you a secret. At least 1:10 of your pax was packing.?


Is that for real? Thts scary


----------



## E30addixt (Dec 4, 2016)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> the most important thing to me would be to create and keep distance from attacker and draw attention.


I believe that's true regardless.



Mkang14 said:


> Is that for real? Thts scary


You'd be surprised how many people you'd never suspect carry in general. I'm in an extremely anti-gun state and it's been clear that more then one of my pax has been armed.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I keep getting bit by big bugs ?


Lower income Drivers are regularly attacked by bigger mosquitoes that may be more efficient at transmitting diseases, a study finds. "Uber driver discharged weapon trying to kill mosquito misses killing wife, 3YO daughter and mother in law"
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/17/health/mosquito-disease-low-income-scn-trnd/index.html


TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Actually im gonna tell you a secret. At least 1:10 of your pax was packing.?


Considering many Uber drivers are charged with Rape & Kidnapping of defenseless passengers
A pax would be crazy Not to have a weapon while in proximity of any Uber Driver ✔
Drivers have run amuck, terrorizing passengers & communities.

Seriously: Uber drivers should not be allowed any weapons


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> Is that for real? Thts scary


Actually a license gunman is much more likely to save your life than be a threat.


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> A gun for home defense is totally understandable, but I don't know about rideshare . I can't see a situation that would require you to blast your passenger. More likely an outside threat .
> 
> What situation do you worry about that's making you want to gun up ?


I can see why a female driver want to carry in our rape culture.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Cold Fusion said:


> Lower income Drivers are regularly attacked by bigger mosquitoes that may be more efficient at transmitting diseases, a study finds. "Uber driver discharged weapon trying to kill mosquito misses killing wife, 3YO daughter and mother in law"
> https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/17/health/mosquito-disease-low-income-scn-trnd/index.html
> 
> Considering many Uber drivers are charged with Rape & Kidnapping of defenseless passengers
> ...


No one can disallow rideshare drivers to have weapons. It is just understood if you must use it then you can't drive anymore (right or wrong).

A few crazy people out of hundreds of thousands statically sounds correct. The same can be said for all professions.

Teachers, coaches, priest are much more likely to be a rapist vs an Uber driver. But crazy Uber driver is the news fad at the moment.


----------



## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Lovelife said:


> I can see why a female driver want to carry in our rape culture.


 I don't agree that there's a rape culture in America . Women have to be sensible . They want to be able to go out and get wasted wearing close to nothing , pass out and expect to be safe , thats just naivety .

My last girlfriend used to carry around an unregistered hand gun in her purse. She was a born again Christian and a huge Trump supporter. We clashed on a few things. ? ?

I was honestly scared she may use that gun on me someday. It bothered me that she had it.

Home defense yes, but either everyone gets to walk around in public with guns or none of us do. I'm ok either way. I can own a gun if I choose to, but honestly...I don't want to use it. I get upset occasionally and it's just bad. It's better if I don't own one.

My situation isn't the same as everyone else's. Women and old people should have home defense. I live in an apartment with thin walls. A bullet could go into a child's head next store. There is no reason for me to have one here.


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> I don't agree that there's a rape culture in America . Women have to be sensible . They want to be able to go out and get wasted wearing close to nothing , pass out and expect to be safe , thats just naivety .
> 
> My last girlfriend used to carry around an unregistered hand gun in her purse. She was a born again Christian and a huge Trump supporter. We clashed on a few things. ? ?
> 
> ...


Tell me then how do you expect women to defend herself from her attacker? We do have rape culture. Hollywood knew about Cosby and Harvey Weinstein but protected them. And we definitely have rape culture in universities. I do agree that too many girls make poor choices by getting too drunk especially to a point where they are passed out but that does NOT mean it's their fault.


----------



## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Lovelife said:


> Tell me then how do you expect women to defend herself from her attacker? We do have rape culture. Hollywood knew about Cosby and Harvey Weinstein but protected them. And we definitely have rape culture in universities. I do agree that too many girls make poor choices by getting too drunk especially to a point where they are passed out but that does NOT mean it's their fault.


Those are women seeking jobs from the elite... most women dont deal with that stuff in the real world USA . It's awful that it happens to those women .


----------



## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Actually a license gunman is much more likely to save your life than be a threat.


No ..not even close to reality &#8230; Licensed gunmen KILL far more innocent people than they ever "save" .. It is CONSTANTLY in the News where Licensed gun owners shoot family members, where family members (kids) get ahold of licensed gumans gun and shoot themselves , brothers or sisters or parents &#8230; it's a CONSTANTLY flow of killing by "licensed" gunman

This is my Favorite right wing gun owner .over my dead body moron..

*Pro-gun Florida mom accidentally shot by 4-year-old son after leaving loaded weapon in car, bragging about how tot gets 'gets jacked up' for target practice*

A proud, pro-gun mom was accidentally shot by her 4-year-old son - just a day after the Second Amendment-loving woman boasted about her tot's shooting skills.

The Florida boy found the loaded weapon in mom Jamie Gilt's car Tuesday and shot her as they cruised down a Putnam County road, officials said. The 31-year-old mother survived the mid-drive attack and is in stable condition.

Even my 4 year old gets jacked up to target shoot with the .22," Gilt wrote on Facebook Monday during a fiery online debate about guns as a means of self-defense. The Jacksonville mom maintained she has the right to shoot anyone who threatens her and her family - and she's teaching her kids to do the same.

*On top of her personal account, the vocal gun activist runs "Jamie Gilt for Gun Sense," a Facebook page dedicated to spouting her passionate pro-gun opinions.*

Gilt, also an avid horseback rider, was driving to pick up a pony when she was shot Tuesday, CBS 47 reported.

Officials said her son in the backseat fired a .45 caliber handgun into the back of the driver's seat. The bullet pierced through the cushion and struck the mom in the back.

It's not clear how the tot got his hands on the loaded weapon or where it was stored in the vehicle.

Deputies spotted Gilt's truck and horse trailer stopped in the middle of the road. They found her in the front seat with a bullet wound, and rushed her to UF Health in Gainesville, about 40 miles west of Putnam.

The 4-year-old was not injured. He is now in the care of other family members, and the Department of Children and Families is investigating the case, officials said. Detectives are now trying to determine exactly how the boy got a hold of the gun.

He will not face charges.

This is definitely not a criminal event. This is an accidental shooting," Capt. Joseph Wells of the Putnam County Sheriff's Office said.

The gun was legally owned by Gilt, officials said in a Wednesday statement. The mom has not been charged, but the investigation is ongoing.

"Florida Statute makes it a misdemeanor for a person to store or leave, on a premise under his or her control, a loaded firearm in such a manner that it is likely a child can gain access to the firearm," officials said in the statement, adding that they will not file any charges before they get a chance to speak with the victim.

The Daily News reached out to Putnam County deputies for further comment, but they did not immediately respond.

Gilt had previously written on social media about her defense of guns.

*"My right to protect my child with my gun trumps your fear of my gun," she declared in a Feb. 13 post.*

The sharp-shooting mom plastered the page with glamour shots of herself holding a long gun - and one smiling picture even showed her holding a small child in one arm and a rifle in the other.

She voiced similar pro-gun positions and professed support for Republican presidential hopeful Ted Cruz on her personal Facebook page.

One post showed a picture of happy children holding hands captioned, "Other people's kids." Underneath it, a photo of barbaric warriors battling with blades and maces was titled, "My kids."

The Daily News could not immediately reach any of Gilt's family members for comment.

A woman who answered a phone number listed for Gilt refused to answer any questions and called the shooting a "personal matter."

*And to top if off the entire family refuses to blame her... It is NOT an Accident ..enough excuses &#8230;.*


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

So, lemme chime in with my day to day life as an armed citizen for the past three years.


I carry the following - my wallet, my keys, OC spray, a Leatherman, and a 9mm compact pistol with nine rounds of hollow points in a concealed holster with retention.
I forget about everything that I am carrying unless I need it. Wallet and Leatherman are used daily.
My friends and family (apart from my wife) did not know that I was armed for about a year. Outwardly, there's nothing different about me. My pistol is either under my clothes or tucked under my shirt.
Forgetting that it's there is important. I will use other means first. Deescalate situations or avoid them entirely. Use OC spray. Run. When all else fails, it's an option on my waistband. A tool like everything else I carry daily.
My mentality has always remained the same. I am not a "gun nut", I'm not a Republican, I'm not a member of the NRA. I made the decision to add that item to my daily life and trained on how to use it, just as I trained as a medic to use the vast assortment of equipment, tools, and drugs that I was equipped with.

Out of the array of items that I carried in the field, some I never used. But they were there for those fringe instances.

For example, only used an enormous needle to treat a collapsed lung once in ten years. It sat in the box year after year until that one instance when using it could mean life or death. And boy was I glad to have it.


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)




----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> I don't agree that there's a rape culture in America . Women have to be sensible . They want to be able to go out and get wasted wearing close to nothing , pass out and expect to be safe , thats just naivety .


What about those women that pass out because something was slipped in their drink? Or black out reaction to a few drinks? Or put on a dress because they wanted to look nice for their prom? What if they drank too much with someone that they thought they could trust?

This is why you cant say that.



dauction said:


> Ummm really? So your saying she shot herself with a unloaded gun?


I didnt shoot myself -o:


----------



## rman954 (May 31, 2016)

Lovelife said:


> Tell me then how do you expect women to defend herself from her attacker? We do have rape culture. Hollywood knew about Cosby and Harvey Weinstein but protected them. And we definitely have rape culture in universities. I do agree that too many girls make poor choices by getting too drunk especially to a point where they are passed out but that does NOT mean it's their fault.


I'm proposing that the women victimized by Weinstein and Cosby produced legally owned firearms and sent those sickos straight to hell. That's just me.



Mkang14 said:


> What about those women that pass out because something was slipped in their drink? Or black out reaction to a few drinks? Or put on a dress because they wanted to look nice for their prom? What if they drank too much with someone that they thought they could trust?
> 
> This is why you cant say that.
> 
> ...


Understand that you are NEVER safe and no one, not even the cops have a duty to protect you. It's a shame so many women are victimized, they are 100% not at fault, but a lot of the time, they put themselves into otherwise avoidable situations. Never accept drinks from strangers. Never get black out drunk.

I know it's so easy to say "people shouldn't take advantage/rape/murder/steal". But they do! Sickos are out there! I'm tired of beating around the bush avoiding the issue that is PREDATORS are among us! And you can't ever let yourself seem like or be nothing more than easy prey in the minds of some sicko.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

KD_LA said:


> Far too many guns floating around in this society. :smiles:


Far too many *illegal* guns floating around in this society.
We need more law abiding citizens legally carrying to protect us from the criminals.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

dauction said:


> No ..not even close to reality &#8230; Licensed gunmen KILL far more innocent people than they ever "save" .. It is CONSTANTLY in the News where Licensed gun owners shoot family members, where family members (kids) get ahold of licensed gumans gun and shoot themselves , brothers or sisters or parents &#8230; it's a CONSTANTLY flow of killing by "licensed" gunman
> 
> This is my Favorite right wing gun owner .over my dead body moron..
> 
> ...


That sir is called cherry picking, not a piece of statistical fact to your argument.

I can find many examples of people being stuck by lightning but it would be folly to try and convince everyone to not leave there homes out of fear of a lightning strike.

Also the entire police force is licensed gun holders. They have saved countless more innocent lives than they've taken. Think before you speak friend.


----------



## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> What about those women that pass out because something was slipped in their drink? Or black out reaction to a few drinks? Or put on a dress because they wanted to look nice for their prom? What if they drank too much with someone that they thought they could trust?
> 
> This is why you cant say that.
> 
> ...


Roofies have been slipped into people's drinks since bars began 100's of years ago. I know there are a good amount of men that get roofied too. By women that want to rob them. I've had it done to me a few times but I didn't pass out, I threw up


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Kevin Kargel said:


> Far too many *illegal* guns floating around in this society.
> We need more law abiding citizens legally carrying to protect us from the criminals.


3 step process

A. FBI background check with fingerprints 
B. Property Owner (renters don't need to apply unless your landlord gives written permission for the tenant to own a piece)
C. Drug testing 
D. Psychological evaluation (should eliminate 99% of rideshare providers)


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Cold Fusion said:


> 3 step process
> 
> A. FBI background check with fingerprints
> B. Property Owner (renters don't need to apply unless your landlord gives written permission for the tenant to own a piece)
> ...


A - federal (and state) background checks already exist. Finger prints? Gun owners aren't all criminals.

B - You're suggesting asking permission to utilize a right? Well, I revoke your first amendment because I don't agree.

C - Yeah, because drug testing is 100% foolproof.

D - this I agree with. Mental background needs to be part of the process. Steps are being made in that direction. But, at the same time, it opens the door to have an individual disarmed simply for seeking mental health care, when they aren't a threat to themselves or others. But we've had a bunch of mass shootings carried out by clearly unstable individuals that slipped through the cracks.


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> Roofies have been slipped into people's drinks since bars began 100's of years ago. I know there are a good amount of men that get roofied too. By women that want to rob them. I've had it done to me a few times but I didn't pass out, I threw up


That's just you. Some women and men do pass out.

The proper response to a person getting attacked is blame the monster. Not what was she wearing and drinking.

People black out after a couple of shots. Unless you are suggesting women cant drink anymore because men are pigs and cant control themselves.


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> A - federal (and state) background checks already exist. Finger prints? Gun owners aren't all criminals.
> 
> B - You're suggesting asking permission to utilize a right? Well, I revoke your first amendment because I don't agree.
> 
> ...


I'm confident many Uber drivers will concur and support ur positions


----------



## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> That's just you. Some women and men do pass out.
> 
> The proper response to a person getting attacked is blame the monster. Not what was she wearing and drinking.
> 
> People black out after a couple of shots. Unless you are suggesting women cant drink anymore because men are pigs and cant control themselves.


All good points!!! The original debate was about rape culture in America . The op mentioned the Hollywood industry. The sad truth about that is, many parents hand their children over to these creeps for a chance at fame . Many aspiring actresses put up with the casting couch.. all because they want to be discovered .

This has been going on since the beginning of time. It's not just some new culture in the US that recently shot up. That's all IM sayin .

PS I only want to be with women that WANT to be with me. I'm not a raper. In case you were wondering !! ??


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

rman954 said:


> Understand that you are NEVER safe and no one, not even the cops have a duty to protect you. It's a shame so many women are victimized, they are 100% not at fault, but a lot of the time, they put themselves into otherwise avoidable situations. Never accept drinks from strangers. Never get black out drunk.
> 
> I know it's so easy to say "people shouldn't take advantage/rape/murder/steal". But they do! Sickos are out there! I'm tired of beating around the bush avoiding the issue that is PREDATORS are among us! And you can't ever let yourself seem like or be nothing more than easy prey in the minds of some sicko.


Here is the problem I have. People use the clothes and drinking excuse to blame women for the action of these "men". Everytime I see it now I want to throw a brick at my phone.

Female pax gets attacked. 50% of comments have to do with what the woman did wrong and poor jolly old driver was framed.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Cold Fusion said:


> 3 step process
> B. Property Owner (renters don't need to apply unless your landlord gives written permission for the tenant to own a piece)


So you are saying renters don't have rights and don't deserve to be able to defend themselves?
I would say rather that all persons who can legally possess a firearm have the right to carry it in their home and that landlords cannot infringe that right.


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Kevin Kargel said:


> So you are saying renters don't have rights and don't deserve to be able to defend themselves?
> I would say rather that all persons who can legally possess a firearm have the right to carry it in their home and that landlords cannot infringe that right.


" _have the right to carry it in their home"_
Ain't "your" home Mr Tenant and it's for your own safety. Let's face it, the working poor ain't too smart, or they wouldn't be the working poor ✔

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/1/18000520/gun-risk-death


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Cold Fusion said:


> " _have the right to carry it in their home"_
> Ain't "your" home Mr Tenant and it's for your own safety. Let's face it, the working poor ain't too smart, or they wouldn't be the working poor ✔
> 
> https://www.vox.com/2015/10/1/18000520/gun-risk-death


I think you're my new favorite troll ?


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> PS I only want to be with women that WANT to be with me. I'm not a raper. In case you were wondering !! ??


Why would I be wondering if you were a raper? Never crossed my mind. I give people much more benifit of the doubt then that. Honestly when people make comments like you did I just assume they dont know any better.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> Why would I be wondering if you were a raper? Never crossed my mind. I give people much more benifit of the doubt then that. Honestly when people make comments like you did I just assume they dont know any better.


I'm dyslexic. I was wondering what the big deal was about rappers.. ?


----------



## rman954 (May 31, 2016)

Cold Fusion said:


> U knew u were being followed and went home?
> mr baseball bat knows where u live ?
> U pulled a weapon on an Uber passenger and didn't get deactivated?
> 
> geez, Florida's the OK retiree Corral ?


Didn't realize I was being followed. If he took another step towards me on my property he'd have not lived long enough to remember.

And yes, didn't get deactivated. Didn't tell Uber shit. I was cleared by the police who responded and Florida Carry's lawyer who would represent me in a lawsuit against Uber for violating my constitutional rights. I could have been seriously injured or killed


Mkang14 said:


> Here is the problem I have. People use the clothes and drinking excuse to blame women for the action of these "men". Everytime I see it now I want to throw a brick at my phone.
> 
> Female pax gets attacked. 50% of comments have to do with what the woman did wrong and poor jolly old driver was framed.


Absolutely. No matter how provocatively dressed or intoxicated someone is, is not an excuse to violate them. I think what a lot of people are voicing their frustrations about is the cases when woman whom regretting their decision to consent to sex, may report it as sexual assault which can be have terrible legal and social repercussions for the accused regardless if convicted or not. Which arguably is a pretty terrible thing.

I know there's a lot more to it than something so black and white. We all here probably know how excessive alcohol consumption can leave things a blur. Plenty of stories that are harmless or funny involve "I don't remember saying/doing that".

I think we can both agree that the kind of men who prey on intoxicated women are no longer men at all, but wild, rabid animals, and like other rabid animals should be euthanized to protect the rest of the herd.

I think the best solution is to: remember that someone intoxicated cannot consent. Keep your hands and body parts to yourself without consent. And all sexual predators must hang by the neck until death. Perhaps if society and our culture moved away from hedonistic binge drinking and instead to responsible enjoyment in good company with good friends. With mutual respect for all. We wouldn't see this happening.

But until then, right?


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

@Mkang14 so, when's range day?!

I don't know what kind of budget you have but I'd suggest trying:


A revolver, small caliber. Basic and classic.
An AR-15. Tiny projectile with a decent amount of power. Very limited kick, built to handle recoil.
A 9mm semi automatic. I'm a Smith & Wesson guy myself, try my every day carry - M&P Shield. Compact and popular for concealed carry. Glock has similar options.
Wanna REALLY spend some cash and go full 'Murica? How about a 50 cal BMG or something fully auto - MP5 is a good choice for the latter.
Go have some fun and post pix! You know you want to try, go do it! ?


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> @Mkang14 so, when's range day?!
> 
> I don't know what kind of budget you have but I'd suggest trying:
> 
> ...


I want to ?? ....

I'm the pm for the release of a new system with a go live date of October 22. It's been nothing but long nights. Maybe that will be my treat for finishing.


----------



## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> Why would I be wondering if you were a raper? Never crossed my mind. I give people much more benifit of the doubt then that. Honestly when people make comments like you did I just assume they dont know any better.


SOME women (not you) can be uptight and men can feel like we have to clarify everything ??‍♂


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> I want to ?? ....
> 
> I'm the pm for the release of a new system with a go live date of October 22. It's been nothing but long nights. Maybe that will be my treat for finishing.


Too bad you weren't in Virginia with me about a year ago. Would have been a matter of saying "HI, Kevin? Mind if I try some of your guns?"

Ahh life in the sticks. Going there for the weekend tomorrow, hopefully someone can shoot with me.


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> I think you're my new favorite troll ?


Right back @ ya, Rootin Tootin Cargo Shorts Benjie
Who never met a paper target he liked


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Cold Fusion said:


> Right back @ ya, Rootin Tootin Cowboy Benjie
> Who never met a paper target he liked


Ooooo boy do I hate paper targets. ? Got me there.


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> Those are women seeking jobs from the elite... most women dont deal with that stuff in the real world USA . It's awful that it happens to those women .


You didn't answer my question about how do you expect women to defend herself from her attacker.


----------



## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Lovelife said:


> You didn't answer my question about how do you expect women to defend herself from her attacker.


Can you put that into context for me? Is this about being attacked while ridesharing or jogging in the park ?


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> Can you put that into context for me? Is this about being attacked while ridesharing or jogging in the park ?


What difference does it make what context it is?


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> Can you put that into context for me? Is this about being attacked while ridesharing or jogging in the park ?


It's called rape because its unwanted. Doesnt matter the situation.

Cant ever be justified or blamed on the victim


----------



## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

KD_LA said:


> And far too many of those shitty humans floating around are stockpiling/carrying/brandishing guns. -o:


Gun violence is demographic specific in the US.

Legal gun owners are vastly under represented in gun violence. Depending on stats used (time period/reporting method), legal gun owners in the US are less violent than general populations in most Western European nations.

Homicide is at historic lows. Most Homicide in the US is isolated to small geographic areas involving small populations of people.

For example:

https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/n...54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> It's called rape because its unwanted. Doesnt matter the situation.
> 
> Cant ever be justified or blamed on the victim


Anyone who is anti gun, especially anti CCW please educate women on how she should defend herself from her attacker. Isn't this my body, my choice?!


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Lovelife said:


> Anyone who is anti gun, especially anti CCW please educate women on how she should defend herself from her attacker. Isn't this my body, my choice?!


Easiest way for women Not to be kidnapped or sexually abused
is to NOT request an Uber or Lyft transportation provider

Being in a locked vehicle operated by an Uber third party contractor is the
Same as if a female strolled through a prison male population solitary confinement in a ? bikini

most FT careerist drivers aren't housebroken


----------



## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Lovelife said:


> What difference does it make what context it is?


Because different circumstances may require an alternate defense ??‍♂


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> Because different circumstances may require an alternate defense ??‍♂


So give some examples of what situation and which weapon. When should a woman carry a gun?



Cold Fusion said:


> Easiest way for women Not to be kidnapped or sexually abused
> is to NOT request an Uber or Lyft transportation provider
> 
> Being in a locked vehicle operated by an Uber third party contractor is the
> ...


More women get raped by their dates or walking down sketch places apart from Universities.


----------



## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

Lovelife said:


> So give some examples of what situation and which weapon. When should a woman carry a gun?
> 
> 
> More women get raped by their dates or walking down sketch places apart from Universities.


And more men than women are raped in the US. I would argue that it is even worse for men, because many of those rapes occur when men are in custody of the state.

Women should Carry a gun anywhere they are allowed to by law, If they so choose.


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Lovelife said:


> More women get raped by their dates or walking down sketch places apart from Universities.


says who? The defense counsel for rapist Uber drivers standing trial ? No Sale Troll, move on


----------



## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

I would definitely carry a supersoaker. One with pump action.


----------



## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

Cold Fusion said:


> says who? The defense counsel for rapist Uber drivers standing trial ? No Sale Troll, move on


I don't know the answer, but there are various federal databases and national crime victimization surveys that cover location/type of rape. Stranger vs known attacker.

Public transportation assault appears to be more problematic in certain countries. Japan for example, although their total rate of sexual assault is lower than most modern nations.

I don't trust Uber and Lyft properly vet drivers. But even if they did, humans act unpredictably. Plenty of examples of people living quiet lives for decades and then doing something horrific.


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

Matt Uterak said:


> And more men than women are raped in the US. I would argue that it is even worse for men, because many of those rapes occur when men are in custody of the state.
> 
> Women should Carry a gun anywhere they are allowed to by law, If they so choose.


Weak answer


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Lovelife said:


> So give some examples of what situation and which weapon. When should a woman carry a gun?


Anyone that carries should carry 24x7 unless you can forsee the future and predict when you will need to defend yourself or others.


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

Cold Fusion said:


> says who? The defense counsel for rapist Uber drivers standing trial ? No Sale Troll, move on


Do you watch or listen to news? In what circumstances were victims raped?


----------



## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

Lovelife said:


> Weak answer


Which part?

What would be a strong answer?


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

Matt Uterak said:


> And more men than women are raped in the US. I would argue that it is even worse for men, because many of those rapes occur when men are in custody of the state.
> 
> Women should Carry a gun anywhere they are allowed to by law, If they so choose.


In NYC a man finds his wife's rapist and kills him. Prosecutor tried to put him in prison. Do you consider him a murderer or a hero? Our law is NOT always about justice.



Matt Uterak said:


> Which part?
> 
> What would be a strong answer?


That it depends on state law. If state decides to ban all guns you should give up your guns?!


----------



## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

Lovelife said:


> In NYC a man finds his wife's rapist and kills him. Prosecutor tried to put him in prison. Do you consider him a murderer or a hero? Our law is NOT always about justice.


I am unsure how a hypothetical with no detail sheds light on my previous post.

The context and facts of the case would be needed to make a judgment. But overall, justice and Legal processes are not always aligned. I am sure there are circumstances where a spouse killing a rapist is permissible from an ethical or moral standpoint.



Lovelife said:


> That it depends on state law. If state decides to ban all guns you should give up your guns?!


I don't concede any of my rights. The state cannot ban guns. If they tried to use a legal process to take them, I would not comply.


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

Matt Uterak said:


> I am unsure how a hypothetical with no detail sheds light on my previous post.
> 
> The context and facts of the case would be needed to make a judgment. But overall, justice and Legal processes are not always aligned. I am sure there are circumstances where a spouse killing a rapist is permissible from an ethical or moral standpoint.


Law is NOT always justice. Was it a justice when a judge gave a rapist only 3 months for raping a girl because he was an athlete? Let me ask in A different way. What should be her rights when it comes to defending herself from her attacker?



Matt Uterak said:


> I am unsure how a hypothetical with no detail sheds light on my previous post.
> 
> The context and facts of the case would be needed to make a judgment. But overall, justice and Legal processes are not always aligned. I am sure there are circumstances where a spouse killing a rapist is permissible from an ethical or moral standpoint.
> 
> ...


So you would not obey laws that is unethical?


----------



## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Mkang14 said:


> 100% the plan is to practice and take safety courses. Seeing myself with a gun right now would be like handing a gun to a monkey ? (no offense @Rakos)
> 
> I have pepper spray now. Taser I'm hesitant about. Doesn't it require distance aand good aim?
> 
> ...


What State do you reside in Mkang


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> What State do you reside in Mkang


California


----------



## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

Lovelife said:


> Law is NOT always justice. Was it a justice when a judge gave a rapist only 3 months for raping a girl because he was an athlete? Let me ask in A different way. What should be her rights when it comes to defending herself from her attacker?
> 
> 
> So you would not obey laws that is unethical?


I would not obey laws that are unethical.

I did not read about the Stanford case In detail. I am unable to address this case in particular.

But anyone being sexually assaulted has the right to defend themselves.

The rub today is that a plurality of women now believe unwanted attention of any kind is assault and that words can be violence. There are plenty of high profile fake rape accusations like Mattress girl or duke lacrosse or the University of Montana QB that show cultural issues with what is considered rape or sexual assault.

Rape, like other violence, is an activity that is inherent to animals. Unfortunately we aren't going to completely stop it nor protect every person from it. Hence why those who choose should defend themselves. Firearms offer the best chance to equalize an encounter.



Mkang14 said:


> California


I carried a gun In California for years without a permit.

Don't let the state take your rights away.


----------



## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Mkang14 said:


> California


Gun laws are really horrible in CA, you'll be better off trying to hit the lottery 3 times and finding the leprechaun's gold at the end of the rainbow.



Matt Uterak said:


> I would not obey laws that are unethical.
> 
> I did not read about the Stanford case In detail. I am unable to address this case in particular.
> 
> ...


It's not he right taken away, it's how the State of CA will make the victim the criminal.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Matt Uterak said:


> I carried a gun In California for years without a permit.
> 
> Don't let the state take your rights away.


Gun crimes are no joke. Is it worth possible jail time? Just saying..


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

Matt Uterak said:


> I would not obey laws that are unethical.
> 
> I did not read about the Stanford case In detail. I am unable to address this case in particular.
> 
> ...


Then you agree that every woman has the right to carry any weapon to defend herself?


----------



## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

peteyvavs said:


> Gun laws are really horrible in CA, you'll be better off trying to hit the lottery 3 times and finding the leprechaun's gold at the end of the rainbow.
> 
> 
> It's not he right taken away, it's how the State of CA will make the victim the criminal.


I use to live in up at Lake Tahoe and Tustin, love both places but the cost of living was outrageous. I went to Florida and it's turning into CA, thinking of moving to North West like Washington or Idaho


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> Can you put that into context for me? Is this about being attacked while ridesharing or jogging in the park ?


Should women have rights to carry guns? Yes or no? If not what should be her rights?


----------



## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Lovelife said:


> Should women have rights to carry guns? Yes or no? If not what should be her rights?


Actually women are better with knives, ask lissette, or Lorena Bobbit


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> Actually women are better with knives, ask lissette, or Lorena Bobbit


Didn't answer my question.


----------



## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Lovelife said:


> Didn't answer my question.


Women have every right to defend themselves by whatever means necessary


----------



## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

Lovelife said:


> Then you agree that every woman has the right to carry any weapon to defend herself?


Basically.


----------



## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Lovelife said:


> Should women have rights to carry guns? Yes or no? If not what should be her rights?


I think a woman a CAN own a gun if it's done legally and she takes a training course. Where did I say women can't own guns? Every law abiding citizen in America can have a gun for home defense if they chose to. CCP permit no way!!! You should have a very specific threat against you to be out in public with a fire arm.

I think most of the gun toting drivers on here would rather murder an unarmed man than get in a fist fight. That's the part that's cowardly . I'm not saying there aren't horrible cities in America where people are getting car jacked etc... but why do ride share there ?? Get a safer job! For everyone else, there's 911.

I love how every driver on here thinks they're Dirty Harry!


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

O-Side Uber said:


> CCP permit no way!!! You should have a very specific threat against you to be out in public with a fire arm


Right, because you always know when there's a threat. Like going to church, McDonald's, Walmart, to see a movie, going to a concert... 


O-Side Uber said:


> I think most of the gun toting drivers on here would rather murder an unarmed man than get in a fist fight. That's the part that's cowardly .


Totally incorrect. Responsible armed citizens know that lethal force is the last option and do not take the ability to shoot someone lightly. It's something we never hope to do, as is the case with the vast majority of police officers.



O-Side Uber said:


> Get a safer job! For everyone else, there's 911.


I was standing on my front porch when someone drove up my road shooting. I called 911, several times. Three hours later, deputies arrived. My gun was out and ready in two seconds. Which would have saved me first if they decided to target my house, my phone or my gun?

And this was in a rural area where stuff like that never happens.


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

O-Side Uber said:


> I think a woman a CAN own a gun if it's done legally and she takes a training course. Where did I say women can't own guns? Every law abiding citizen in America can have a gun for home defense if they chose to. CCP permit no way!!! You should have a very specific threat against you to be out in public with a fire arm.
> 
> I think most of the gun toting drivers on here would rather murder an unarmed man than get in a fist fight. That's the part that's cowardly . I'm not saying there aren't horrible cities in America where people are getting car jacked etc... but why do ride share there ?? Get a safer job! For everyone else, there's 911.
> 
> I love how every driver on here thinks they're Dirty Harry!


Trolling?



Benjamin M said:


> Gun crimes are no joke. Is it worth possible jail time? Just saying..


Yes. If one doesn't exercise their rights, they lose them.


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## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> Right, because you always know when there's a threat. Like going to church, McDonald's, Walmart, to see a movie, going to a concert...
> 
> Totally incorrect. Responsible armed citizens know that lethal force is the last option and do not take the ability to shoot someone lightly. It's something we never hope to do, as is the case with the vast majority of police officers.
> 
> ...


We all live in different parts of the US, so to say every driver should gun up to rideshare is just silly and you will be kicked off the U/L platform if they find out. A passenger could see the weapon on report you.


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## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> I think a woman a CAN own a gun if it's done legally and she takes a training course. Where did I say women can't own guns? Every law abiding citizen in America can have a gun for home defense if they chose to. CCP permit no way!!! You should have a very specific threat against you to be out in public with a fire arm.
> 
> I think most of the gun toting drivers on here would rather murder an unarmed man than get in a fist fight. That's the part that's cowardly . I'm not saying there aren't horrible cities in America where people are getting car jacked etc... but why do ride share there ?? Get a safer job! For everyone else, there's 911.
> 
> I love how every driver on here thinks they're Dirty Harry!


I try to avoid dangerous city like Camden by waiting for a ping at least half an hour away but I still end up there once so far. But for women she can get raped anywhere including nice neighborhood.


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## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Matt Uterak said:


> Trolling?
> 
> 
> Yes. If one doesn't exercise their rights, they lose them.


How am I trolling?? If you turkeys ? quote me and ask me a question, I'm going to get an alert ? on my phone , and answer you with full sincerity


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## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Right, because you always know when there's a threat. Like going to church, McDonald's, Walmart, to see a movie, going to a concert...
> 
> Totally incorrect. Responsible armed citizens know that lethal force is the last option and do not take the ability to shoot someone lightly. It's something we never hope to do, as is the case with the vast majority of police officers.
> 
> ...


In Hamilton, NJ, last year a man walked into Applebees and shot a man and walked out. Obviously they caught because there were witnesses.


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## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Lovelife said:


> I try to avoid dangerous city like Camden by waiting for a ping at least half an hour away but I still end up there once so far. But for women she can get raped anywhere including nice neighborhood.


NJ certainly has dangerous parts. Avoid working at night and if your drop off is in a bad area , hit last ride so you don't get pinged from there


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## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> NJ certainly has dangerous parts. Avoid working at night and if your drop off is in a bad area , hit last ride so you don't get pinged from there


When I first moved to south jersey I didn't realize I was close to Camden and I worked at night for few days and I was dropping off in Camden a lot and I did click on off so that I didn't pick up any pax from there.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

O-Side Uber said:


> We all live in different parts of the US, so to say every driver should gun up to rideshare is just silly and you will be kicked off the U/L platform if they find out. A passenger could see the weapon on report you.


I never said that every driver should own a gun. I was illustrating the point that you can find yourself in a life or death situation absolutely anywhere, any time. And that's why many people carry.



Lovelife said:


> In Hamilton, NJ, last year a man walked into Applebees and shot a man and walked out. Obviously they caught because there were witnesses.


Was that near Quaker Bridge Mall?


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## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> I never said that every driver should own a gun. I was illustrating the point that you can find yourself in a life or death situation absolutely anywhere, any time. And that's why many people carry.


I was mainly talking about all women should have the right to carry any weapon she feels comfortable with.



Benjamin M said:


> I never said that every driver should own a gun. I was illustrating the point that you can find yourself in a life or death situation absolutely anywhere, any time. And that's why many people carry.
> 
> 
> Was that near Quaker Bridge Mall?


Yes. How did you know?


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Lovelife said:


> I was mainly talking about all women should have the right to carry any weapon she feels comfortable with.
> 
> 
> Yes. How did you know?


I used to work at the mall, many moons ago. That Applebee's was a popular after work hangout.


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## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> I used to work at the mall, many moons ago. That Applebee's was a popular after work hangout.


For some reason I thought that you live in CA.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

female driver have an issue? Go off GPS route

Enter: RideCheck

a new safety feature in the Uber app available across the U.S. Using GPS technology and smartphone sensors, RideCheck can help detect if there's a potential crash or if your trip goes unusually off-course. *Uber will then check in with both the rider and driver to make sure everything is okay and provide access to key safety tools and support.*

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/uber-adding-brand-safety-feature-150552467.html


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

O-Side Uber said:


> How am I trolling?? If you turkeys ? quote me and ask me a question, I'm going to get an alert ? on my phone , and answer you with full sincerity


I perceived you were trolling by your style. If not, keep on keeping on


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

O-Side Uber said:


> You should have a very specific threat against you to be out in public with a fire arm.


So you are saying that only criminals can have firearms in public?
This is exactly why there are so many school shootings. It is one place the shooter is guaranteed by law that nobody will shoot back.


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## rman954 (May 31, 2016)

O-Side Uber said:


> I think a woman a CAN own a gun if it's done legally and she takes a training course. Where did I say women can't own guns? Every law abiding citizen in America can have a gun for home defense if they chose to. CCP permit no way!!! You should have a very specific threat against you to be out in public with a fire arm.
> 
> I think most of the gun toting drivers on here would rather murder an unarmed man than get in a fist fight. That's the part that's cowardly . I'm not saying there aren't horrible cities in America where people are getting car jacked etc... but why do ride share there ?? Get a safer job! For everyone else, there's 911.
> 
> I love how every driver on here thinks they're Dirty Harry!


I don't "fist fight" with people. I don't really care if they're armed or not considering many more people per year are killed via hands and feet than with rifles. I've seen people killed during "fist fights". I've seen people slip, fall, and die on the spot. I'm not going to stoop to the level of some hoodlum who wants to fight me. I'm not going to wait until I'm a bloody pulp on the pavement, a single more stomp away from being unconscious, in coma, or dead. If I fear for my life I'll fight for it. I mean shoot for it.

Maybe your life experiences haven't involved seeing people get jumped. Mercilessly beaten until they're unconscious, bloodied, permanently disfigured, or even dead. But I have. And I'll never forget how hard they tried to fight back. But ultimately couldn't fight back. And they died over it.


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## TCar (Aug 4, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> 100% the plan is to practice and take safety courses. Seeing myself with a gun right now would be like handing a gun to a monkey ? (no offense @Rakos)
> 
> I have pepper spray now. Taser I'm hesitant about. Doesn't it require distance aand good aim?
> 
> ...


I am a monkey and am a little offended....?


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## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

rman954 said:


> I don't "fist fight" with people. I don't really care if they're armed or not considering many more people per year are killed via hands and feet than with rifles. I've seen people killed during "fist fights". I've seen people slip, fall, and die on the spot. I'm not going to stoop to the level of some hoodlum who wants to fight me. I'm not going to wait until I'm a bloody pulp on the pavement, a single more stomp away from being unconscious, in coma, or dead. If I fear for my life I'll fight for it. I mean shoot for it.
> 
> Maybe your life experiences haven't involved seeing people get jumped. Mercilessly beaten until they're unconscious, bloodied, permanently disfigured, or even dead. But I have. And I'll never forget how hard they tried to fight back. But ultimately couldn't fight back. And they died over it.
> 
> View attachment 368278


I have seen plenty of videos on the news where mob of black people jumping white people and putting them in hospitals even beating them to death. But no black person call racist when that happens.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

TCar said:


> I am a monkey and am a little offended....?


Aww sorry. Monkeys are adorable! But you guys reeeeally dont know how to handle a gun ?‍♀


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## rman954 (May 31, 2016)

Lovelife said:


> I have seen plenty of videos on the news where mob of black people jumping white people and putting them in hospitals even beating them to death. But no black person call racist when that happens.


Yes. Mob violence. Also cheap shots from behind or out of your peripheral vision. I highly recommend Craig Douglas AKA Southnarc for training on how to fight dirty with guns, knives, hands. He spent many years as a Narcotics officer including undercover work. He teaches a lot about situational awareness. How to identify "set ups" by thugs. He said to ALWAYS be aware of the look out.

Say one man approaches you. He says always keep an eye out for the second who may be acting as a lookout or ambush. The guy walking towards you is the distraction or aggressor. While the other guy is making sure no one else gets involved. Or alert his buddy the cops are coming around the corner.

It's really good stuff. No overly dramatic martial arts techniques that are painfully situational in nature but instead realistic techniques of how to utilize natural body mechanics to: break holds, prevent holds, weapon retention including advanced use of utilizing a "get off me" knife in order to create distance for you to utilize your firearm. Remember a semi auto won't function if the slide is recessed due to being pressed against a perps abdomen.

Also all of the above in reverse.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> I can't see a situation that would require you to blast your passenger.


Eating? Vaping? The long ride with the sniffling rider who says they don't need a kleenex and proceeds to loudly snort the whole ride?

I'm not a lawyer but I believe in Texas and Florida those are all reasons for justified shootings.



Gtown Driver said:


> Plus you can't have any Wing Chun accidents.


Do you mean Wang Chung?


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

I'm more confused then ever ?. 

Besides my dads I've never seen a gun in real life. I dont know if it's that common in CA and based on what people are saying about how hard it is to get your hands on one legally that's probably why. 

Stun gun seems doable. I just wish it worked on 100% of people. That's scary to attempt to injure someone and they know you tried but failed. They will loose it. I would rather do nothing then try, fail and get punched in the face or killed.


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## rman954 (May 31, 2016)

Mkang14 said:


> I'm more confused then ever ?.
> 
> Besides my dads I've never seen a gun in real life. I dont know if it's that common in CA and based on what people are saying about how hard it is to get your hands on one legally that's probably why.
> 
> Stun gun seems doable. I just wish it worked on 100% of people. That's scary to attempt to injure someone and they know you tried but failed. They will loose it. I would rather do nothing then try, fail and get punched in the face or killed.


Stun guns =/= tasers. Stun guns are pretty much pain compliance tools. And they require direct contact. Are your arms longer than a man's? His punching distance is probably greater than your stunning distance.

Tasers actually disrupt your nervous system. It's not uncommon in reviewing police footage seeing Tasers sometimes fail to work properly. You have one shot. And there's no guarantee that it'll work. Sometimes you miss. The darts fail to penetrate. Or something else messes up. Bad propellant cartridge or faulty batteries. I'm aware of some Taser models having as many as 3 shots but they're very expensive. Generally they also require a permit to carry just like a firearm, because they fire the dart-electrodes.

https://buy.taser.com/collections/tasers/products/taser-pulse-plus
Is the latest model for civilian use (police and military Tasers only shock people for a few seconds while civilian Tasers zap em for about 30 so you get a head start running away). What I like about it. It's firearm shaped. It points well. Has laser sighting assistance which for taser range is very adequate.

What I don't like: IT'S FIREARM SHAPED!

The previous model is decidedly not shaped at all like a firearm! https://www.beststungun.com/product/taser-c2-laser-gold-package/

If you inadvertently display the modern Taser Pulse. You would bet anyone would assume it's a firearm! Meanwhile you could say the C2 is your back massager or something. No one wants to be the

"(wo)man with a gun!"

But remember. Even for trained and certified users like the police. Often have Tasers fail to work properly. There are many heart wrenching videos of police pleading with people armed with knives to drop their weapons and surrender. The person approaches so they try to utilize a taser and it fails. Use of force matrix leaves them with little choice than to respond to the knife with a gun at that point.

Los Angeles Police only reports a 57% success rate of a taser properly incapacitating a person. Seattle reports 60% and note, they also track the threatened use of Tasers on suspects whom wish not wanting to be tased simply surrender.

Those ain't very good numbers.


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## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

Gtown Driver said:


> You have a point, but again the majority of these scenarios are literally street fighter scenarios.
> 
> I agree with anyone who carries a gun for that extra protection from those other scenarios, but from what I've seen the high majority of issues could have been deal with just utilizing deescalation/self defense. If you want to cover every base have a gun + CQC, but I just haven't personally seen enough cases of this stuff where I would go "yeah I need to get a gun or else".
> 
> I respect those that want to carry that 1500 foot range weapon, just personally not for me.


A handgun is not a 1500 foot range weapon. 1500 feet equals 500 yards. An M40 sniper rifle is a 1500 weapon all day long.
The effective range of a 9mm is 100 meters.
Carrying a concealed handgun is just one more measure of safety. Just like having an air bag in a vehicle or wearing a seat belt.








1500 foot weapon


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## Deepscout (Sep 3, 2018)

R3drang3r said:


> A handgun is not a 1500 foot range weapon. 1500 feet equals 500 yards. An M40 sniper rifle is a 1500 weapon all day long.
> The effective range of a 9mm is 100 meters.
> Carrying a concealed handgun is just one more measure of safety. Just like having an air bag in a vehicle or wearing a seat belt.
> View attachment 368281
> ...


Maybe 100 yards in terms of terminal ballistics. In the real world, under high-stress conditions, accuracy is going to rapidly deteriorate beyond 10 yards. Most defensive shootings occur at less than 7 yards.


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## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

Deepscout said:


> Maybe 100 yards in terms of terminal ballistics. in the real world, under high-stress conditions, accuracy is going to rapidly deteriorate beyond 10 yards. Most defensive shootings occur at less than 7 yards.


100 yards = 300 feet
100 meters = 328.08 feet


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Lovelife said:


> For some reason I thought that you live in CA.


Nope, Virginia since around 21 (I'm 37). If I lived in California I most likely would not have a piece on me. ?

Born and raised in Maryland, spent a good chunk of my life near where George Washington crossed the Delaware (couldn't understand why he didn't just take the bridge ?).

I worked at Ritz Camera / Camera Shop Inc in the mall for nearly a decade. First job. Used to be on the second floor, next to McDonald's.



Deepscout said:


> Maybe 100 yards in terms of terminal ballistics. in the real world, under high-stress conditions, accuracy is going to rapidly deteriorate beyond 10 yards. Most defensive shootings occur at less than 7 yards.


Precisely. As I said in another post, some self defense pistols don't even have sights. It's point and shoot.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

R3drang3r said:


> A handgun is not a 1500 foot range weapon. 1500 feet equals 500 yards. An M40 sniper rifle is a 1500 weapon all day long.
> The effective range of a 9mm is 100 meters.
> Carrying a concealed handgun is just one more measure of safety. Just like having an air bag in a vehicle or wearing a seat belt.
> View attachment 368281
> ...


Even so, I just see having anything with yards and yards of range rather inefficient for behind/front seat rideshare pax attacks. Too much strength for something that can most of the time be dealt with without a gun.

If I were to even have a gun for rideshare, it would most likely because I'm in some bad area where I need to vigilante shoot goons that are actually several yards away from me. Which if that's the case, then I don't need to be driving in that area to begin with. Don't see the point in needing a gun to shoot somebody 2 feet away from me. Just sets up itchy trigger finger BS.



Deepscout said:


> Most defensive shootings occur at less than 7 yards.


This sounds accurate enough as most people don't carry around stuff that would be necessary for shooting any farther than that any way. It's just rideshare pax attacks usually encompass a space where a gun would just be out of line. For me I'd prefer to just use deescalation, learn CQC or worst case scenario have a knife on me. A gun at those close quarters is just a liability in a country where it's already controversial as hell to be slinging guns around.

You really don't need anything more powerful or with any more range than knife to deal with rideshare pax attacks. A gun is just way too unnecessary range wise for that tight of a space and puts you in huge liability if they end up dying and they are unarmed. If it's that big of a deal I say it's better to move to a safer area, learn self defense or just don't piss your pax off so hard that a gun is the only way to save your ass.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> Even so, I just see having anything with yards and yards of range rather inefficient for behind/front seat rideshare pax attacks. Too much strength for something that can most of the time be dealt with without a gun.
> 
> If I were to even have a gun for rideshare, it would most likely because I'm in some bad area where I need to vigilante shoot goons that are actually several yards away from me. Which if that's the case, then I don't need to be driving in that area to begin with.
> 
> This sounds accurate enough as most people don't carry around stuff that would be necessary for shooting any farther than that any way. It's just rideshare pax attacks usually encompass a space where a gun would just be out of line. For me I'd prefer to just use deescalation, learn CQC or worst case scenario have a knife on me. A gun at those close quarters is just a liability in a country where it's already controversial as hell to be slinging guns around.


I suggest visiting a range. Talk with the folks there. Learn a bit about guns and ballistics.

Not everyone should be armed, that's for sure. You seem to be against armed citizens and that's fine. I was, too. Then I talked with some level headed people, shot with them, and made the decision to carry.

What pushed me over the edge was actually a deer that had been hit by a car. Met my neighbors Kevin and Judy that night. Kevin and I used to shoot at his place often, I taught the old man some tricks and improved his firearm safety. Became a great friend.

So, the deer. I came home from a Meetup in Richmond (programming), saw people in front of my driveway (Kevin, Judy, and a couple of neighbors).

The deer was still alive but mortally wounded. It was trying to crawl and in pain. Kevin called 911, an officer arrived after about ten minutes.

First words out of his mouth, "who here has a gun?"

Kevin had a few at home but he had been drinking (he wasn't driving). So I called my neighbor behind me, the same one that I had talked with many times about guns - he always carried and I made similar arguments as yours.

He walked up, asked the officer if he could "dispatch" the deer, handed me his cigarette, shot the deer in the head, and carried on. Parting words, "a gun is a tool, Ben".

Bought my first pistol (I have two) the following week. Trained with it, obtained a permit to carry concealed (I'll never open carry, legal in Virginia), and that was that.

Oh, and why did the officer ask who had a gun? Less paperwork. ? The deer was hauled off to be eaten by another neighbor. Probably nasty meat at that point but that's a common practice in places like Alaska (mainly moose).


----------



## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

rman954 said:


> I don't "fist fight" with people. I don't really care if they're armed or not considering many more people per year are killed via hands and feet than with rifles. I've seen people killed during "fist fights". I've seen people slip, fall, and die on the spot. I'm not going to stoop to the level of some hoodlum who wants to fight me. I'm not going to wait until I'm a bloody pulp on the pavement, a single more stomp away from being unconscious, in coma, or dead. If I fear for my life I'll fight for it. I mean shoot for it.
> 
> Maybe your life experiences haven't involved seeing people get jumped. Mercilessly beaten until they're unconscious, bloodied, permanently disfigured, or even dead. But I have. And I'll never forget how hard they tried to fight back. But ultimately couldn't fight back. And they died over it.
> 
> View attachment 368278


I'm still trying to envision the scenario that everyone is so freaked out about happening while doing rideshare, that they feel the need to disobey the policy of Uber and Lyft by carrying a concealed fire arm. What specific situation is there that you can't drive, run or walk away from that requires a gun while ride-sharing?

Standing your ground because you have a gun isn't always the best move. Also no one is talking about what they would do if the pax took the gun away from them!!

I think many of you are being overly frightened . I was also very concerned when I first started a few years ago, but after 1000's of rides, I'm not even thinking about guns... I'm thinking about how much money is this ride playing me?!

For those that live in the Boonies, your situation is different than the major rideshare markets. You have bears and snakes and maybe even sasquatches ! So please don't encourage city folk to go out armed to do rideshare. Stray bullets kill innocent people. If the job is too scary, don't do it.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> I suggest visiting a range. Talk with the folks there. Learn a bit about guns and ballistics.
> 
> Not everyone should be armed, that's for sure. You seem to be against armed citizens and that's fine. I was, too. Then I talked with some level headed people, shot with them, and made the decision to carry.
> 
> ...


I'm generally fine with people carrying guns just out of choice. The country was built around carrying guns from back in the 1700's. There was a time when your next door neighbor wanted to shoot you to death, so the constitution put that in. I can't fight that.

It's just a matter of would I want to personally carry a gun around during rideshare specifically for the purpose of dealing with people 2 feet away from me? No. Especially considering the liability around it if they are deemed not threatening enough for the force used. I know there's a lot of options I can utilize specifically for rideshare.

I'd need to like also be in a bad area with other reasons to use the gun than just Brotato Joe who's had too much to drink or Uptight Sally who's smacking me in the back of the head because I won't take her to Taco Bell.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> I'm generally fine with people carrying guns just out of choice. The country was built around carrying guns from back in the 1700's. There was a time when your next door neighbor wanted to shoot you to death, so the constitution put that in. I can't fight that.
> 
> It's just a matter of would I want to personally carry a gun around during rideshare specifically for the purpose of dealing with people 2 feet away from me? No. Especially considering the liability around it if they are deemed not threatening enough for the force used. I know there's a lot of options I can utilize specifically for rideshare.
> 
> I'd need to like also be in a bad area with other reasons to use the gun than just Brotato Joe who's had too much to drink or Uptight Sally who's smacking me in the back of the head because I won't take her to Taco Bell.


For those of us who carry, we carry daily.

What you need to understand is that nobody can predict when they will be in danger. And the threat can be outside of the vehicle.

Know what else can be outside of the vehicle? Me, quickly, elbows and butt. ?


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## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

Gtown Driver said:


> Too much strength for something that can most of the time be dealt with without a gun.


 If the situation doesn't require a gun then you leave it in its holster. 
Do you think somebody who's sitting in your backseat is going to follow your same logic? 
Ever hear the saying don't bring a knife to a gunfight?


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

R3drang3r said:


> If the situation doesn't require a gun then you leave it in its holster.
> Do you think somebody who's sitting in your backseat is going to follow your same logic?
> Ever hear the saying don't bring a knife to a gunfight?


Sure, but if the question is just would I want a gun specifically for rideshare, my answer is still no. I just don't personally think rideshare is that dangerous that I need a holstered gun. I just don't care enough for guns and specifically don't believe they're useful enough for enclosed rideshare encounters to bother.

That don't bring a knife to a gunfight thing is another reason why I wouldn't bother with guns solely for rideshare. The majority of these attackers are just pissed off suburban people who don't have guns. The stuff that's on these popular youtube/world star videos is all stuff that you don't need a gun for and the driver generally didn't use a gun for.

The worst case scenario ones are the ones that will already have the gun in your face first and you're already checkmated outside of them sparing your life any way. If they're a true, hardened criminal they will make sure their gun is on you first and you will have to make the CQC maneuver of your life to maybe not die. If you even try to reach for your gun, you're likely to be shot.

Gun vs gun is better when you have range to prepare yourself. At inside car range, if they draw a gun first forget it. You're at their mercy other than the CQC maneuver of your life. Try to pull your gun after they have theirs on you and you're shot. Otherwise you'll just end up being another anxious person that throws a gun up because they put their cell phone or hand into the air.

If I'm in a bad crime area where I have to worry about grand theft auto? Sure, I'll cave in for some gun. For just rideshare? No.


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## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

Gtown Driver said:


> Sure, but if the question is just would I want a gun specifically for rideshare, my answer is still no. I just don't personally think rideshare is that dangerous that I need a holstered gun. I just don't care enough for guns and specifically don't believe they're useful enough for enclosed rideshare encounters to bother.
> 
> That don't bring a knife to a gunfight thing is another reason why I wouldn't bother with guns solely for rideshare. The majority of these attackers are just pissed off suburban people who don't have guns. The stuff that's on these popular youtube/world star videos is all stuff that you don't need a gun for and the driver generally didn't use a gun for.
> 
> The worst case scenario ones are the ones that will already have the gun in your face first and you're already checkmated outside of them sparing your life any way. You're not getting to that gun without the CQC maneuver of your life without dying.


I would say my chances of survival are definitely better than yours.
You're obviously very uncomfortable with a gun. So don't carry one.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

R3drang3r said:


> I would say my chances of survival are definitely better than yours.
> You're obviously very uncomfortable with a gun. So don't carry one.


Yeah that's why I voted that I wouldn't carry one just for rideshare. That's what the poll was for.

Would I cave in to carry a gun in a shitty/high crime area? Yes. In typical suburban areas where most of the standard youtube/world star pax pop offs happen? No.

In any event if rideshare attack statistics ever got THAT dangerous, I would just be getting another job any way. Until then, I'm fine with deescalation and just learning some self defense.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Gtown Driver said:


> Yeah that's why I voted that I wouldn't carry one just for rideshare. That's what the poll was for.
> 
> Would I cave in to carry a gun in a shitty/high crime area? Yes. In typical suburban areas where most of the standard youtube/world star pax pop offs happen? No.


Again, most of people who carry don't do so "just for".


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Again, most of people who carry don't do so "just for".


That's understandable. I just answer what the poll is asking.

It's just a clear vote for a question of "Would you carry if it was legal for RS?"

My answer is no. I perfectly enjoy that other people's answers are yes. I'm fine with other people who carry guns to cover all of the bases they want to cover. As far as where I live and what I dealt with, my answer is no when it comes to rideshare specifically.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Getting a legal gun is very doable, even in Califorina. Just please get your permit and get proper training and practice to expert level. Without that you are better off getting good running shoes.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

Kevin Kargel said:


> Getting a legal gun is very doable, even in Califorina. Just please get your permit and get proper training and practice to expert level. Without that you are better off getting good running shoes.


I dont do anything illegal. So If i get one i will through the proper channels. Also I will not use or get one unless i feel fully comfortable with it. This is why i spent so much time avoiding guns.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> I'm still trying to envision the scenario that everyone is so freaked out about happening while doing rideshare, that they feel the need to disobey the policy of Uber and Lyft by carrying a concealed fire arm. What specific situation is there that you can't drive, run or walk away from that requires a gun while ride-sharing?
> 
> Standing your ground because you have a gun isn't always the best move. Also no one is talking about what they would do if the pax took the gun away from them!!
> 
> ...


Personally I know I overthink EVERYTHING to death and scare myself ?. Trust me I am very self aware.

On the other hand there have been so many stories coming out about pax grabbing someone's wheel, getting naked in the seat, getting shot, physically attacked. I decided to visit my sf forum the other day to see whats poppin and 3 stories just posted of uber drivers being attacked.

Ive seen first hand, outside of rideshare what someone on drugs is capable of and some drunk passengers cant keep their hands to themselves. It's good to be prepared for anything because it takes one time for a robbery to go bad and now kids dont have their mom.

After reading through this I again dont want a gun for rideshare. But I want one for my house. Doing uber I want something that I can use to instantly zap someone trying to grab the wheel but as stated stun gun stats for efficiency arent the best. Dashcam is good, I have pepper spray. Actually pepper spray and then stun gun increases chances of bringing someone down ?


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## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> Personally I know I overthink EVERYTHING to death and scare myself ?. Trust me I am very self aware.
> 
> On the other hand there have been so many stories coming out about pax grabbing someone's wheel, getting naked in the seat, getting shot, physically attacked. I decided to visit my sf forum the other day to see whats poppin and 3 stories just posted of uber drivers being attacked.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you mentioned those incidents! Now we can all discuss alternative ways of dealing with each of them.

I have always insisted that it's better to keep a pax in the back passenger seat. You can stiff arm them long enough to pull the car over, and you minimize the target zone for punches because of the front seats. This also keeps them at the furthest point from the controls.

If you've already unlocked the doors and let the pax in , do not hit start trip . Say hello and see if they say it back. Confirm address , listen to how they answer.. If they get weird, grab your phone.. sternly tell them the ride ain't happening , get out!

Any hesitation from them, hit the U/L emergency button and tell U/L to have their customer get out ... but never start the trip unless you feel you can get them to the destination without any trouble.

******Always consider how long the trip is with this person. I've taken questionable pax on short trips, but there's no way I'd take them on a long trip into the boonies. I've certainly turned money down in exchange for my safety. There will always be another paying fare, don't risk your life to please uber and Lyft.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

O-Side Uber said:


> I have always insisted that it's better to keep a pax in the back passenger seat. You can stiff arm them long enough to pull the car over, and you minimize the target zone for punches because of the front seats. This also keeps them at the furthest point from the controls.


I've been thinking about this too. I use tell people to go in the back. Never a problem. Until someone got butt hurt. Then I wasnt so vocal about it.

In the back driver has so much more control. Plus if a weapon like stun gun or pepper spray, stun gun needs to be used it would be easier to grab out of sight of the attacker.


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## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Nope, Virginia since around 21 (I'm 37). If I lived in California I most likely would not have a piece on me. ?
> 
> Born and raised in Maryland, spent a good chunk of my life near where George Washington crossed the Delaware (couldn't understand why he didn't just take the bridge ?).
> 
> ...


Good thing you moved out of Jersey since our new governor is raising tax like he promised. When asked about people leaving NJ due to tax and his response was if tax is an issue then this state is not for you.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Every time a gun has ever killed someone, 

someone was at fault.

And you don't have to pull the trigger for a gun to save your life either.


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## O-Side Uber (Jul 26, 2017)

Women driving the night shift is not recommended . I personally don’t work past 9 or 10. That’s when the real trouble starts. The chance of anything happening in the day is so small. Just have your own personal rules for what you will or won’t tolerate. At the same time , it’s never good to be so wound-up that you clash with the pax when you didn’t need to.

I almost ejected 3 guys the other day. It took me 10 min to get to the pub they were at. I pulled up and saw three white dudes mid 30’s. They were holding boxes of food. One of them had a hand full of fries , no box, just straight hand full of fries. 

I thought my door was locked !! It wasn’t . French Fry guy opens the front passenger door and starts to get in with the fries. I told hold up, please finish those outside, I don’t allow eating in my car. 

The guy in the back said something snarky about thanks for telling them the rules.. 
They seemed slightly buzzed. Their trip was short and they weren’t really a threat to me. The F-Face in the front though.... He came so close to getting yelled at by me. 

I could tell he was must of been embarrassed or miffed that had I scolded him on the fries... so he brushed the salt off his hands on to the floor. He then proceeded to tell his buddies a story while being very animated with his hands. He put his left hand in front of my face a few times . 

This is a huge reason why I hate guys in the front.. problem is, I’m not sure if a buzzed person even realizes what a idiot they are being. I had already lost in court that afternoon to the tune of $238. I was not in a good mood. 

I had Ozzie’s boneyard on XM. I remember the song that was on , Sabbath Bloody Sabbath . I told myself if this clown puts his hand in my face one more time , I’m pulling the F over and bouncing these guys.. I was already eying stops.... but again... this a short trip.. don’t want to over react just yet. 

They had me drop one of them a block away from the other two. It was the kid in the back birthday ? this explains the pub dinner.

I drop off the last F-Face. He said I had a clean car and liked my music choice. They tipped me $3. 

What is my point here??? I don’t know!!!!! Just another fricken day. But what if I had gotten extra stern because I knew I was packing heat???? What if I had pulled the macho move of bouncing the 3 and then an argument started ??

In a group of buzzed males that age, one could start yelling threats to impress the other two. Do I pull my firearm and blast three millennials on their buddy’s birthday????? Many here will say yes, but I say no. Over reacting and panic can make things worse.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

At my old house for the weekend. A neighbor is shooting, so annoying. They didn't invite me! ? 

Ahhh life in the sticks.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Three of my favorite YouTube videos on being armed in a car or your house (@Mkang14, the first has a reference to CA ?)






And, my neighbor at my old house -






Lastly, a video on the effectiveness of the TASER (as in what police carry)


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## ZAutobahn (Jul 17, 2019)

dauction said:


> The very fact that your dad kept loaded Gun under his bed shows irresponsibility ..it "seems" like a good idea but this is what ends up happening..
> 
> _KTVU learned the boy was visiting Wilson's home when he found a loaded gun underneath a bed and shot himself.
> 
> ...


Yes. If one can afford to buy a gun ($300 to $2000+), one can afford a quick access safe for said gun. Decent quick access safes start at less than $100. No home with children should have loaded weapons that are accessible to the children


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## Danny James (Sep 13, 2019)

The best way to get shot is to carry a gun.


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## Fargle (May 28, 2017)

Why are so many anti gun people obsessed with penises?


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## Deepscout (Sep 3, 2018)

Danny James said:


> The best way to get shot is to carry a gun.


Proof?


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

O-Side Uber said:


> NJ certainly has dangerous parts. Avoid working at night and if your drop off is in a bad area , hit last ride so you don't get pinged from there


I drive nights and I don't have any issues, I just talk my paxs to sleep lol



Fargle said:


> Why are so many anti gun people obsessed with penises?


Because they can only shoot blanks lol


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Deepscout said:


> Proof?


Really? .. I just fail to understand people like you that cannot comprehend simple logic .

If we were to say who is more likely to drown at home.. Families with a Pool or Families without a pool .. You would (god I would hope) use a little common sense and say ..the the Family with a Pool ..

But when that same common sense is applied to Guns you all freak out out and try to deny it ..it's a simple basic fact

*Living in a house with a gun increases your odds of death*

The same thing is true for accidents. States with more guns see more accidental deaths from firearms, and children ages 5 to 14 are 11 times more likely to be killed with a gun in the US compared to other developed countries, where gun ownership is much less common. About half of gun accident fatalities happen to people under 25, and some recent analyses suggest that the official count of gun accident deaths among children is understated.

"When 34 injury prevention experts were asked to prioritize home injury hazards for young children, based on frequency, severity, and preventability of the injury, the experts rated access to firearms in the home as the most significant hazard," Harvard gun expert David Hemenway writes. The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that "the absence of guns from children's homes and communities is the most reliable and effective measure to prevent firearm-related injuries in children and adolescents."


There's roughly one gun for every person in America
Gun crime is more prevalent in the US than in other rich countries
Gun homicides (like all homicides) are down from the 1980s/1990s
Places with more guns have more homicides
There are more gun suicides than gun homicides in America
Suicide is more common in places with more guns
Guns contribute to domestic violence
Mass shootings represent a tiny share of all shooting deaths
A tiny fraction of gun violence is committed by the mentally ill
Gun control is generally popular

Which leads us back to the Story at Hand &#8230; a Uber driver SHOT a Passenger... A Passenger that never would have been shot if the Driver did not have the Gun in his car ..If he obeyed the rules of being a IC for Uber ...NO GUNS


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## Fargle (May 28, 2017)

dauction said:


> Really? .. I just fail to understand people like you that cannot comprehend simple logic .
> 
> If we were to say who is more likely to drown at home.. Families with a Pool or Families without a pool .. You would (god I would hope) use a little common sense and say ..the the Family with a Pool ..
> 
> ...


Can you come up with something that wasn't originated by Galen Wintemute?


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Fargle said:


> Can you come up with something that wasn't originated by Galen Wintemute?


Diversion..when you cant admit your wrong ..just divert .. can you come up with something not originated from the NRA talking points


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


I carried the entire time I drove (10 yrs) & I could care less about what Uber thought.

Raised in a house w/6 brothers, no sisters I hunted, camped and was comfortable with a weapon. After serving 16yrs in USAF I handled the finances at work so had a CWP.

In 10 yrs I drew my weapon three times. Each time I popped my trunk as a ruse to deceive pax so I could go around back of car let off safety, fling open right rear door and invited them to gtfo. Twice in Oakland & the other in SF's MISSION District.

F the dumb shit. My #1 job is to go home safely.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

IR12 said:


> I carried the entire time I drove (10 yrs) & I could care less about what Uber thought.
> 
> Raised in a house w/6 brothers, no sisters I hunted, camped and was comfortable with a weapon. After serving 16yrs in USAF I handled the finances at work so had a CWP.
> 
> ...


Your drew your weapon 3 times.. how fing irresponsible .In 10 years I never drew a weapon ...I was able to escort 2 people out of my vehicle without playing rambo

Exactly , f the dumbshit rambo nonsense


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## Fargle (May 28, 2017)

}


dauction said:


> Diversion..when you cant admit your wrong ..just divert .. can you come up with something not originated from the NRA talking points


Answer the question. Everything you claimed traces directly back to academic and scientific fraud by Wintemute and Sugarmann. Would you like a detailed report on this?


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Fargle said:


> }
> 
> Answer the question. Everything you claimed traces directly back to academic and scientific fraud by Wintemute and Sugarmann. Would you like a detailed report on this?


I have no Idea what the hell you are talking about ..You are the one that is refusing to answer the question... Is it more likely to get shot, in a Home with Guns or without Guns..
(or in car with or without guns)

pretty simple question..

You know the answer but you refuse to admit it

I'm off to work..feel free to pile on while I'm gone


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## jlong105 (Sep 15, 2017)

dauction said:


> Ummm really? So your saying she shot herself with a unloaded gun?


Ummm really? Look at the thread I was replying to. No one was shot. I know reading comprehension is a hard thing. Let me spoon feed you. The original post came from @Mkang14.



Mkang14 said:


> In a world where everyone was allowed to carry doing rideshare, would you? Do you have any tips for new gun owners? Any good stories?
> 
> I remember growing up my dad had a gun under his bed that was almost the length of his bed. Us kids were terrified of it. I really dont see why that long gun would be of any use ?‍♀.
> 
> I'm starting to come around on the idea of owning a gun. But it would have to be something small.


Your response was:



dauction said:


> The very fact that your dad kept loaded Gun under his bed shows irresponsibility ..it "seems" like a good idea but this is what ends up happening..
> 
> _KTVU learned the boy was visiting Wilson's home when he found a loaded gun underneath a bed and shot himself.
> 
> ...


Where in the hell do you see someone was shot??? A two year old boy was shot in your story, but that wasn't what I addressed. You accuse her dad of being irresponsible with your assumptions built in that he kept it loaded. I was using your assumptions to show how they make an ass out of you.



R3drang3r said:


> 100 yards = 300 feet
> 100 meters = 328.08 feet


but important to remember is that the round will still be dangerous for over 2000 meters if you miss.


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## Fargle (May 28, 2017)

dauction said:


> I have no Idea what the hell you are talking about ..You are the one that is refusing to answer the question... Is it more likely to get shot, in a Home with Guns or without Guns..
> (or in car with or without guns)
> 
> pretty simple question..
> ...


That's not how rational debate is done. You made a specious assertion which I dismissed as BS because of the very obvious connections to Wintemute and Sugarmann. I then asked for figures not tainted by their fraud. Since it seems clear you don't know who they are, you therefore have no business making any kind of assertion about firearms or crime.

Finally, you're asking a loaded and misleading question. It is very well shown that people who resist an attack tend to fare better that those who don't.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

dauction said:


> Your drew your weapon 3 times.. how fing irresponsible .In 10 years I never drew a weapon ...I was able to escort 2 people out of my vehicle without playing rambo
> 
> Exactly , f the dumbshit rambo nonsense


Airforce veteran draws a gun to get the paxholes to vacate the vehicle.

This is someone who is _trained_ to handle a firearm,

I'm not saying they were Special Ops, but they know how to _properly_ carry, handle and use a firearm.

Many folks in the armed forces have better weapons training then the police officers who need to carry them.

I've never had to draw, but i have had to open a couple cans on some paxholes.










I would never draw my fire arm when a regular beating would work just fine. So far I've been able to beat my assultants into submission to protect myself but there's no promises that will always be the case.


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## Trucker chick (Mar 31, 2018)

MadTownUberD said:


> Isn't it difficult to get a CCW permit in CA?


Yes it is you have to a business to protect yourself and there is a couple more things if you look it


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## Fargle (May 28, 2017)

Trucker chick said:


> Yes it is you have to a business to protect yourself and there is a couple more things if you look it


It also helps to be in the right county. Some sheriffs issue CCWs almost as a shall-issue policy.


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