# UC Berkeley poll says Proposition 22 is eleven points short of passing, and losing steam fast despite massive corporate spending.



## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

California voters are tepid about Proposition 22, a statewide poll shows, despite a jaw-dropping $184.3 million poured into it by Uber, Lyft and other gig companies trying to keep their drivers and couriers as independent contractors.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/busines...voters-tepid-on-gig-work-Prop-22-15591693.php


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

geesh, and here I **** this was a NEW poll. Nope same 29% we say a week ago. Just a tease, u r.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Now how did I know you would be the first to comment on this?

I just saw this for the first time today. Guess I'm a little late to the party.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> Now how did I know you would be the first to comment on this?


ah, cause I have about the same posting times every day give/take?  &#129335;‍♂

Was excited to see a 'new' Prop 22 poll; was instantly deflated when I saw 29% and it was the 'old' one in a manner of speaking. We need a poll like as of 10/15 to show true status. The voting pamphlets just dropped 2 weeks ago and many haven't bothered to view it yet; it is quite thick with a zillion propositions.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

They tried to buy the Austin plebiscite and failed. In fact, when they went up the street in Austin and paid off those people to thwart the expressed will of the Good Voters of Austin, some of those who protested the actions of the Texas Legislature cited that. They could not buy the Good Voters of Austin, so they went and bought the Texas legislators.

At least on this one, they can not buy the California legislators. Hopefully, they will fail in their attempt to buy the Good Voters of California.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Voters are not stupid. Most are usually are able to figure things out and wade through the spin.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

UC Berkeley polling also predicted that Hillary would be president.
Just sayin’....


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> California voters are tepid about Proposition 22, a statewide poll shows, despite a jaw-dropping $184.3 million poured into it by Uber, Lyft and other gig companies trying to keep their drivers and couriers as independent contractors.
> 
> https://www.sfchronicle.com/busines...voters-tepid-on-gig-work-Prop-22-15591693.php


We will have to see how many people vote this year. More than 50% of the population never votes and then they complain when the results aren't in their favor.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

The only poll that matters is on voting day.

Just ask President Hitlery Clinton.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Uber's Guber said:


> UC Berkeley polling also predicted that Hillary would be president.


....and most polls were well wi MoE and she did get how many more millions of votes? Hum.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> They tried to buy the Austin plebiscite and failed. In fact, when they went up the street in Austin and paid off those people to thwart the expressed will of the Good Voters of Austin, some of those who protested the actions of the Texas Legislature cited that. They could not buy the Good Voters of Austin, so they went and bought the Texas legislators.
> 
> At least on this one, they can not buy the California legislators. Hopefully, they will fail in their attempt to buy the Good Voters of California.


Money talks. Usually. This might be a rare exception.


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## kenyarc (Aug 18, 2020)

ANT 7 said:


> The only poll that matters is on voting day.
> 
> Just ask President Hitlery Clinton.


How is President Trump doing these days? Just asking.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

kenyarc said:


> How is President Trump doing these days? Just asking.


He actually has the word President as a title before his name, unlike Hillary.


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## kenyarc (Aug 18, 2020)

B


Trafficat said:


> He actually has the word President as a title before his name, unlike Hillary.


Hillary is sitting cozy at home doing well though and she's had her 8 years at the White House. How's that President Trump doing? Haven't checked the news lately.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

kenyarc said:


> B
> 
> Hillary is sitting cozy at home doing well though. I saw her on t.v. looking well. How's that President of yours doing? You don't get points for Russian help to win an election.


Ah, so she got the better end of the deal. She lost the election, but avoided the Rona? Biden should take note. He too could avoid the Rona as long as he can figure out a way to lose the election.


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## producemanjames (Jun 20, 2018)

kenyarc said:


> B
> 
> Hillary is sitting cozy at home doing well though and she's had her 8 years at the White House. How's that President Trump doing? Haven't checked the news lately.


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## kenyarc (Aug 18, 2020)

Obama doesn't have covid. Neither Bill or Hillary have covid. Biden doesnt have covid. Pelosi doesnt have covid. Kamela ...nope. Harry Reid doesnt have it. No democrat leader has covid by the way. If you ask me, only an idiot who has twenty four hour secret service protection would get covid. How is President Trump though, the stable genuis? You still dont answer me. Havent seen him lately. How is he doing?

Ps: much credit to uber drivers here who don't have nearly the resources as the president for not getting covid.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Polls are for Sheepeople.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

39 yes
36 no
Remainder undecided.

This vote could still go either way.


HOWEVER

the no vote has been picking up steam,

Earlier polls didn't show the no vote anywhere near as close.


It's very possible that all the slimy things uber has been doing is hurting them more than it's helping, and as the media examines the issue it's digging dirt.

BUT like I said it could go either way.


I also need to point out the following.


I want what's best for us LONG TERM, I know in my heart that what's best long term isn't what uber wants, it's not prop 22. The math I've done with idle time factored in, prop 22 is the definite loser compared to employee classification.


I also need to point out that if AB5 is enforced is on the app companies I have no clue what's going to happen to the drivers that are currently on the platforms. I just don't know,


What i do know is that min wage is a floor on earnings. tips are on top of that and quite simply min wage using your own car will easily be $27-30 an hour plus benefits. And overtime will be $35 an hour...


The questions i have..

Will the gig companies let you hit full time hours?
(My guess is no)

Will you have to schedule in advance?
(my guess yes)

Will it hurt flexibility?
(my guess yes)


However I also need to point out that 80% of rides are given by a small portion of full time drivers. It's possible that part timers will only be able to log in during the busiest times of the week the rest of the time no dice. They will do what it takes to get enough drivers on the road, whatever that takes they will do it.

And with uber/lyft on equal footing they won't be able to undercut each other.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> And overtime will be $35 an hour...


there will be no approved OT under AB5; that you can count on. You can also count on a lot fewer drivers 'as employees' on the road. The full timers, the maybe 20%, first on the list to NOT hire.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

SHalester said:


> The full timers, the maybe 20%, first on the list to NOT hire.


My guess would be that those who have not run a job in thirty days or more would be the first to go. Uber and Lyft still have a rule like that, it is just that they have not enforced it for some time. If Twenty-Two fails and AB-5 prevails, I would expect those who have not run a job in thirty days to be de-activated without warning.

I would expect that those who have run a job in the past thirty days would not be suddenly de-activated. My suspicion would be that you could log on first come/first served, but, after a certain amount of hours per week, say twenty four, you would be blocked out unless Uber or Lyft needed drivers that day. There would be some prioritising, as well. Those who have pushed thirty hours the previous week would be low priority while those who have kept it under twenty would be the first permitted to log in.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I would expect those who have not run a job in thirty days to be de-activated without warning.


oh, that means I'd be toast. but but but but even if a proposition wins in November the earliest it is effective is 1/1/21. So since I'm getting ready to go back online I'd do at least a few rides. Then apply for a 'job' to be an 'employee' just to see how long I could last. I suspect right up until the moment Uber 'tried' to supervise me. That would be it. :roflmao:

Uber has telegraphed what it could look like via the Prop 22 slide show. Those graphics had a point. Showed schedules, show days that said 'full' etc etc. They had a head start with NYC changes.

Anyway, unlike a lot I have a resume hot and ready to go once I add the RS gigs to it.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> My guess would be that those who have not run a job in thirty days or more would be the first to go. Uber and Lyft still have a rule like that, it is just that they have not enforced it for some time. If Twenty-Two fails and AB-5 prevails, I would expect those who have not run a job in thirty days to be de-activated without warning.
> 
> I would expect that those who have run a job in the past thirty days would not be suddenly de-activated. My suspicion would be that you could log on first come/first served, but, after a certain amount of hours per week, say twenty four, you would be blocked out unless Uber or Lyft needed drivers that day. There would be some prioritising, as well. Those who have pushed thirty hours the previous week would be low priority while those who have kept it under twenty would be the first permitted to log in.


That makes sense. Just takes a few tweaks to The Algorithm.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

SHalester said:


> there will be no approved OT under AB5; that you can count on. You can also count on a lot fewer drivers 'as employees' on the road. The full timers, the maybe 20%, first on the list to NOT hire.


the thing about overtime is that a time and a half would really only be like 25% more total paid to the driver.

they could easily let you go over 40 during surge times.



SHalester said:


> there will be no approved OT under AB5; that you can count on. You can also count on a lot fewer drivers 'as employees' on the road. The full timers, the maybe 20%, first on the list to NOT hire.


the thing about overtime is that a time and a half would really only be like 25% more total paid to the driver. They wouldn't need to pay 1.5 times the total paid out only 1.5 times the actual pay which is only half the fare (under ab5)

they could easily let you go over 40 during surge times


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

SHalester said:


> oh, that means I'd be toast. but but but but even if a proposition wins in November the earliest it is effective is 1/1/21. So since I'm getting ready to go back online I'd do at least a few rides. Then apply for a 'job' to be an 'employee' just to see how long I could last. I suspect right up until the moment Uber 'tried' to supervise me. That would be it. :roflmao:
> 
> Uber has telegraphed what it could look like via the Prop 22 slide show. Those graphics had a point. Showed schedules, show days that said 'full' etc etc. They had a head start with NYC changes.
> 
> Anyway, unlike a lot I have a resume hot and ready to go once I add the RS gigs to it.


I worked on Sunday right up to the amount per week I can make and still collect the full unemployment money. 
That nifty shield lyft sent me was awesome and I used a wipe when I handled my only airport axes luggage..


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> At least on this one, they can not buy the California legislators. Hopefully, they will fail in their attempt to buy the Good Voters of California.


Then they're not very competent politicians.

"The good voters of Cali" can be bought simply with the frequent use of the word FREE,

_DISCLAIMER: There is ONE exception to this ... the word 'free' can not be used as a part of the word 'freedom.'
That is a dangerous and radical idea that Comrade Newsom and Comrade Pelosi fight against daily._


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

I'm voting No because Uber wants it.



25rides7daysaweek said:


> I worked on Sunday right up to the amount per week I can make and still collect the full unemployment money.
> That nifty shield lyft sent me was awesome and I used a wipe when I handled my only airport axes luggage..


What's an airport axes luggage?



kenyarc said:


> How is President Trump doing these days? Just asking.


Better than ever!!


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## pineapple22 (Apr 28, 2019)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> California voters are tepid about Proposition 22, a statewide poll shows, despite a jaw-dropping $184.3 million poured into it by Uber, Lyft and other gig companies trying to keep their drivers and couriers as independent contractors.
> 
> https://www.sfchronicle.com/busines...voters-tepid-on-gig-work-Prop-22-15591693.php


You believe these polls? LOL There is no way Prop 22 is not passing. Majority of my passengers asked me what my thoughts are and pretty much all of them said other drivers wanted "Yes" on 22 as well and they will vote Yes on 22 to help out the drivers. Bipartisan support from passengers as well.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

pineapple22 said:


> You believe these polls? LOL There is no way Prop 22 is not passing. Majority of my passengers asked me what my thoughts are and pretty much all of them said other drivers wanted "Yes" on 22 as well and they will vote Yes on 22 to help out the drivers. Bipartisan support from passengers as well.


I believe in this poll the way I believe in a month-old weather report. It's interesting, but things change rapidly coming into election day, and election day is the only poll that matters. When this poll was done 25% of the participants were undecided, and that number will almost certainly have gone down.

Gig companies have outspent labor 30 to 1 to pass 22, so I would not be surprised in the least if 22 passes. I've already filled out my ballot, And we'll know the outcome November 4th (hopefully).


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

pineapple22 said:


> You believe these polls? LOL There is no way Prop 22 is not passing. Majority of my passengers asked me what my thoughts are and pretty much all of them said other drivers wanted "Yes" on 22 as well and they will vote Yes on 22 to help out the drivers. Bipartisan support from passengers as well.


If you think those companies are doing this to benefit drivers and workers you are wrong

If prop 22 passes Cali drivers will be working for peanuts. Surge will disappear. Up front ride details will disappear. Mileage rates will drop.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Rideshare Dude said:


> If you think those companies are doing this to benefit drivers and workers you are wrong
> 
> If prop 22 passes Cali drivers will be working for peanuts. Surge will disappear. Up front ride details will disappear. Mileage rates will drop.


Yep. If drivers vote away their protection and give carte blanche to Uber, Dara will reprise Kathy Bates and it will be Misery all over again. Drivers will be totally at Uber's mercy for whatever they want to do to them.

Up front ride details - gone. Surge - gone. Dara's "earnings guarantee" leaves enough room to allow for another 20% cut in rates for drivers. And some fools will _still_ claim that they are independent contractors.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Rideshare Dude said:


> If you think those companies are doing this to benefit drivers and workers you are wrong
> 
> If prop 22 passes Cali drivers will be working for peanuts. Surge will disappear. Up front ride details will disappear. Mileage rates will drop.


Maybe. Your speculation.

If prop. 22 fails, there is no indication that surge and up front ride details will be available if AB5 is the law of the land.

Further, ride details will be moot. As a part time, minimum wage employee, you will be expected to perform every assigned task or fired for cause.

Also, what you gonna do if the algorithm schedules you from midnight till 3:59 am in Compton or Lynwood? Call in sick? Eventually, you're gonna be fired for cause.

If prop. 22 fails, you will be exactly treated as a part time minimum wage employee.

Who in their right mind would want to be an employee of these devious companies?

Vote YES on prop. 22, the lesser of evils for profitable contractors.

Vote YES on prop. 22, the lesser of evils for profitable contractors.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> Maybe. Your speculation.
> 
> If prop. 22 fails, there is no indication that surge and up front ride details will be available if AB5 is the law of the land.
> 
> ...


Sounds like neither option is good for drivers!


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> Maybe. Your speculation.
> 
> If prop. 22 fails, there is no indication that surge and up front ride details will be available if AB5 is the law of the land.
> 
> ...


Your speculation.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Yep. If drivers vote away their protection and give carte blanche to Uber, Dara will reprise Kathy Bates and it will be Misery all over again. Drivers will be totally at Uber's mercy for whatever they want to do to them.
> 
> Up front ride details - gone. Surge - gone. Dara's "earnings guarantee" leaves enough room to allow for another 20% cut in rates for drivers. And some fools will _still_ claim that they are independent contractors.
> 
> View attachment 519607


The benefits you mention are moot if designated as minimum wage, part time employee.

Accept every task or be fired for cause. Same as any W2 job.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> The benefits you mention are moot if designated as minimum wage, part time employee.
> 
> Accept every task or be fired for cause. Same as any W2 job.


For the right wage plus mileage reimbursement I will pick up whoever the send me.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Sounds like neither option is good for drivers!


Yep.

Unprofitable contractors are clamoring for part time, minimum wage employee status.

Profitable contractors are voting to retain contractor status.

Prop. 22 sucks, but is preferable to the horrors of AB5 for profitable contractors.

California drivers, vote YES, on prop. 22, the lesser of evils.



Rideshare Dude said:


> Your speculation.


Have you ever been a part time, minimum wage employee?

No fiscal reason for gig app companies to employ any driver as a full time employee.

By the way, do you think the apps will hire you through their HR Departments?

Are you a profitable contractor or an ant? Guessing ants gonna be offered employment status.



Rideshare Dude said:


> For the right wage plus mileage reimbursement I will pick up whoever the send me.


Seems to me, as a part time, minimum wage employee, the right wage plus mileage reimbursement is not a factor. Perform all assigned tasks or be fired for cause. You have no say in the matter, like any other W2 job.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Rideshare Dude said:


> For the right wage plus mileage reimbursement I will pick up whoever the send me.


=D

Now you know why i work the hood so often doing taxi...


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> My guess would be that those who have not run a job in thirty days or more would be the first to go. Uber and Lyft still have a rule like that, it is just that they have not enforced it for some time. If Twenty-Two fails and AB-5 prevails, I would expect those who have not run a job in thirty days to be de-activated without warning.
> 
> I would expect that those who have run a job in the past thirty days would not be suddenly de-activated. My suspicion would be that you could log on first come/first served, but, after a certain amount of hours per week, say twenty four, you would be blocked out unless Uber or Lyft needed drivers that day. There would be some prioritising, as well. Those who have pushed thirty hours the previous week would be low priority while those who have kept it under twenty would be the first permitted to log in.


They have not enforced the 30 day rule so they can claim to have 500, 211 drivers on their platform and they'll all be out of a job if Prop 22 passes.

In reality only 75,000 drivers are actually working.

Numbers are made up but you get the general idea.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> Yep.
> 
> Unprofitable contractors are clamoring for part time, minimum wage employee status.
> 
> ...


I've got a newsflash for you. You can already be fired by Uber for any reason. It's in the agreement.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Rideshare Dude said:


> I've got a newsflash for you. You can already be fired by Uber for any reason. It's in the agreement.


News flash. Funny.

I can not be fired. I am a contractor.

I can choose to accept or decline offers and the gig apps can choose to contract with me or not.

Thank the heavens there is not a 30 day notice requirement to terminate the contract.

Seems you have no concept, new member, of a contractual relationship. No one is getting "fired."


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> News flash. Funny.
> 
> I can not be fired. I am a contractor.
> 
> ...


Same thing, different terminology. New member here, yes. Four years and 16,000 rides, yes. Call it whatever you want but Uber can currently end your ability to drive at any time for any reason. Prop 22 will make that worse.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Rideshare Dude said:


> If you think those companies are doing this to benefit drivers and workers you are wrong
> 
> If prop 22 passes Cali drivers will be working for peanuts. Surge will disappear. Up front ride details will disappear. Mileage rates will drop.


I voted No because Uber is pushing it.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

There is no speculation as to what the pay will be under prop 22. It is written in The proposal which will become law if passed. RS paid per minute / 30 cents per mile / plus incentives when offered and keep your tips / incentives can be deducted from your guaranteed minimum/that's written in the prop.

An independent contractor with the ability to log on and log off whenever you want, but paid as an employee less than minimum wage unless you roll your wheels every minute of the hour.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Paul Vincent said:


> There is no speculation as to what the pay will be under prop 22. It is written in The proposal which will become law if passed. RS paid per minute / 30 cents per mile / plus incentives when offered and keep your tips / incentives can be deducted from your guaranteed minimum/that's written in the prop.
> 
> An independent contractor with the ability to log on and log off whenever you want, but paid as an employee less than minimum wage unless you roll your wheels every minute of the hour.


And 30 cents per mile won't even cover direct operating costs for most drivers in CA. It's amazing to see these drivers supporting a prop they either didn't read or don't understand.


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## ChillinLA (May 19, 2020)




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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

ChillinLA said:


> View attachment 520310


That's not including that expenses would get paid at just over half on prop 22 as AB5 requires.

My actual estimate for total pay under AB5 is approximately $25-30 per hour (depending on tips and how many miles you drive) (plus benefits if your eligible) with about $13+ tips being taxable and another $10-15+ being non taxable.

10 hours would generate you $250-300 including tips with about $150 being taxable.
$130 in taxable "pay"
.575 X 200-250 miles = $115-143 in untaxable expense reimbursement
$5-30+ tips

Under prop 22 my estimate (for lowest) is $0. to ?

I have no idea...

But the payfloor for AB is $25 an hour for being logged in and accepting pings. For AB5 it's way way less than that.

AB5
$13 an hour + .575 per mile + tips
(21.2/3rds c a mile)

Prop 22
26c a minute 30c a mile while on pings.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> That's not including that expenses would get paid at just over half on prop 22 as AB5 requires.
> 
> My actual estimate for total pay under AB5 is approximately $25-30 per hour (depending on tips and how many miles you drive) (plus benefits if your eligible) with about $13+ tips being taxable and another $10-15+ being non taxable.
> 
> ...


Prop 22 is basically $15/hr if you were always on a trip. Every driver knows that rarely happens for extended periods. If you go an hour without a ping the floor is zero for that hour.

The 30c Per mile probably would not cover actual expenses in California because of the high price of gasoline.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

Rideshare Dude said:


> Prop 22 is basically $15/hr if you were always on a trip. Every driver knows that rarely happens for extended periods. If you go an hour without a ping the floor is zero for that hour.
> 
> The 30c Per mile probably would not cover actual expenses in California because of the high price of gasoline.


But you can keep your tips!!!!!!!!!!


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Rideshare Dude said:


> And 30 cents per mile


Those are 1962 cab rates. Try paying 2020 expenses on 1962 pay.


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## Robert Larrison (Jun 7, 2018)

Don't forget you set your clocks back a 100 years


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## Nutsi Pelosi (Sep 21, 2020)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Those are 1962 cab rates. Try paying 2020 expenses on 1962 pay.


Even complete morons would stop driving.
The number of drivers today on application was 7% of what it was a year ago.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Nutsi Pelosi said:


> Even complete morons would stop driving.
> The number of drivers today on application was 7% of what it was a year ago.


Are you still driving?


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## UberDerrick (Apr 20, 2019)

Well, Uber / Lyft won Prop22.

Back to the "cotton fields" we slaves must go now - no saying in our pay, no rights, no nothing.


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