# SF driver clears $8.55/hr. after expenses/taxes



## Okphillip (Feb 6, 2017)

I ran the numbers and estimate I'm "clearing" less than $9.00/hr. Driving 37 hours per week in SF.
And driving about 28,000 miles/yr. I also have a regular day job working 36 hrs/wk making about $55,000. I drive a 2015 Honda Fit that is paid for in full.
Here are the numbers:

From Uber and Lyft Gross Earnings per year "my cut" about $40,000 (800/wk.)
After mileage deduction comes out to about net $26,000

Estimated expenses per year: 
Additional SS and income taxes $11,000
Gas $4,000
Car maintenance $1,700
Additional insurance $700
Vehicle depreciation: $5,000
Tolls: $500
Supplies $100
Car washes $100

Total expenses: $23,100

$40,000 - $23,100 is a net income of $16,900. $16,900 per year is $325 /wk. $325/wk divided
by 38 hours is $8.55 per hour.

What do you guys think about my numbers?


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Sounds not too bad.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

You know your numbers better than anyone else. Only you know if you're limiting your expenses as much as you can & working primarily only during surge or PT.


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## Ducky (Mar 24, 2015)

The only flaw I see is with taxes. Your income tax is impacted by your FT job of $55k which puts your Uber income into a higher bracket.

It's better to compare gross earnings, which is after expenses and before taxes.

Also, don't you get reimbursed for tolls?


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Ya you can't roll up taxes into your Hourly wage. You gotta look at the big picture. You are getting paid $95000 and working about 72 hours a week. That is about 26/hr. Is that good in your city? State? Would you rather make 55k only and work 36hrs or so per week? 

95k is gross, you will get about a 10000 personal exemption, about 15000 in mileage expense deductions, that takes your taxable to about 70k. You should tax shelter 20k of that or more. That reduces your taxable to 50k. Probably will pay about 25% of that in tax so that is 37k in the end in your pocket. 

So that is about $10 per hour when all is said and done. But you are building wealth over time with that 20000k investment so it isn't all bad. Do that for about 10-20 years and you will have about half million in Retirement and if you are starting out at age 3o that is half million by age 50 and by age 65 could be around 1.5 million. 

These are all rough numbers. Very rough. You need to get some serious tax and investment advice.


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## Dave Styles (Apr 6, 2016)

Even if it's $10 an hour that's still several dollars bellow the min wage in San Francisco. People working at Walgreens or Mc Donalds are making more money than him with far less expenses!



jfinks said:


> Ya you can't roll up taxes into your Hourly wage. You gotta look at the big picture. You are getting paid $95000 and working about 72 hours a week. That is about 26/hr. Is that good in your city? State? Would you rather make 55k only and work 36hrs or so per week?
> 
> 95k is gross, you will get about a 10000 personal exemption, about 15000 in mileage expense deductions, that takes your taxable to about 70k. You should tax shelter 20k of that or more. That reduces your taxable to 50k. Probably will pay about 25% of that in tax so that is 37k in the end in your pocket.
> 
> ...


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

You aren't getting it, that is after taxes and investing 20000 k per year. I assure you that snot nose flunky kid that probably didn't even finish high school isn't going to even gross 20k per year. And this kid is going to interview you, can fire you, and is going to tell you when to work.

I'll take driving around in my non greasy, comfy, air conditioned and nicely scented car over that any day. Plus if I don't wanna work that day, f it, kick back in the Lazyboy and watch Trump get hammered by everyone all day.


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## Abraxas79 (Feb 7, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> Sounds not too bad.


Surely you can find a successful drug trafficker to drive around the city ? In a city such a SF, I think there would be plenty. "Hey, I like your style. I understand that UBER driver's earn less than minimum wage. Tonight's your lucky night. Turn off your app, I will pay $50.00 an hour plus gas and expenses to drive me around...."


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Okphillip said:


> I ran the numbers and estimate I'm "clearing" less than $9.00/hr. Driving 37 hours per week in SF.
> And driving about 28,000 miles/yr. I also have a regular day job working 36 hrs/wk making about $55,000. I drive a 2015 Honda Fit that is paid for in full.
> Here are the numbers:
> 
> ...


Youre doing better than me

You paid taxes !


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## Carbalbm (Jun 6, 2016)

42.3% SS and income tax on additional $26k in income? Not following.

Also, only averaging $800/week on 37 hours... you're doing something wrong in SF. It should be closer to $1,100 a week after incentives and boost.


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

You ONLY make $800 driving 36 hours a week in san francisco. How? I can clear at least $1000 on 32 hours. 

I'd do more if I could control my bladder and wasn't so sleepy all the time.


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## RideshareDude (May 14, 2017)

Okphillip said:


> I ran the numbers and estimate I'm "clearing" less than $9.00/hr. Driving 37 hours per week in SF.
> And driving about 28,000 miles/yr. I also have a regular day job working 36 hrs/wk making about $55,000. I drive a 2015 Honda Fit that is paid for in full.
> Here are the numbers:
> 
> ...


$11,000 in taxes from just driving Uber? You are full of shit. FOH.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Okphillip said:


> I ran the numbers and estimate I'm "clearing" less than $9.00/hr. Driving 37 hours per week in SF.
> And driving about 28,000 miles/yr. I also have a regular day job working 36 hrs/wk making about $55,000. I drive a 2015 Honda Fit that is paid for in full.
> Here are the numbers:
> 
> ...


I had some guy from SF in my car, he told me he makes $80k a year. Should I believe him? I mean, SF rates $2 per mile, so that plus a lot of surges might get you there.


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

RideshareDude said:


> $11,000 in taxes from just driving Uber? You are full of shit. FOH.


He's not doing his taxes right if he pays that much


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Okphillip said:


> I ran the numbers and estimate I'm "clearing" less than $9.00/hr. Driving 37 hours per week in SF.
> And driving about 28,000 miles/yr. I also have a regular day job working 36 hrs/wk making about $55,000. I drive a 2015 Honda Fit that is paid for in full.
> Here are the numbers:
> 
> ...


Just go with the IRS deduction, and you'll have even less, and less to pay taxes on.


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## Carbalbm (Jun 6, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> I had some guy from SF in my car, he told me he makes $80k a year. Should I believe him? I mean, SF rates $2 per mile, so that plus a lot of surges might get you there.


I was making $1,200 a week (on pace for $62k), when I could put in 35 hours a week. You could easily make $80k working the right hours and hitting the quests/boosts/surge areas.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

Can't speak to gas or maintenance etc, but it seems somewhat within reason... However your tax estimate is probably high. Of the $26K taxable income SS/Medicare should be $3978. You then get to deduct like half of that back off your taxable income before doing your actual income tax, which is perhaps 25% bracket? Any which way the fact that you're perhaps in a higher bracket from Uber+ your main job isn't exactly Ubers fault.

Additionally you are "doing it wrong" so to speak. It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who drive newer cars doing this stuff. Unless you're Select/Black etc (where you have to have a newer model year) you want a car that is close to the age limit in your area, but still has reasonably low miles. Depreciation is a KILLER. Your car may well depreciate MORE than the entire purchase price of my first vehicle I bought for Uber, which cost me 4 grand. 

If you want to do this as a serious thing for a few years buy a several year old Prius off Craigslist after hunting for a bit, for a good deal, and drive it into the ground. Maintenance costs often aren't much more between 100K and 200K miles mark than for the first 100K miles... But you end up having virtually no depreciation. It's the ONLY pro way to do this shit. If you don't want to spend Prius money buy a true beater non hybrid for 2-5K cash, although for X driving hybrids seem to be worth it. I personally think cars in the 80K to maybe 110K miles range, and like 7-8 years old are perfect to buy for this stuff. My first car depreciated MAYBE $1,000 after making $30K working it part time in the first year. 

All that said your gross income seems low for what I've heard is usual in SF. You can make plenty more than that in Seattle, and SF should be comparable or better. You need to get better at doing this, or just stop doing it.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Okphillip said:


> I ran the numbers and estimate I'm "clearing" less than $9.00/hr. Driving 37 hours per week in SF.
> And driving about 28,000 miles/yr. I also have a regular day job working 36 hrs/wk making about $55,000. I drive a 2015 Honda Fit that is paid for in full.
> Here are the numbers:
> 
> ...


I stopped reading after your second paragraph. Your net revenue is $40k and you only drove a total of 28k miles? You're killing it. Been in this business for over 17 years and drive an upper end SUV. Your $1.43/mile is awesome for the X platform. Imagine if you worked this to 60k miles a year like most full time livery drivers? That's nearly $86k/year. You could easily buy a new Honda Fit every 3 years for cash. My vehicle new is $60k. If I get $1.65/mile total driving that's awesome.


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## cdm813 (Jan 9, 2017)

I seriously doubt an older Honda Fit is depreciating at $5k every 28,000 miles.


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## popcollar2014 (Nov 15, 2016)

A little bit below min wage sounds and feels right. I always get the question. Do you make a lot? I tell them the truth. No, but at least I can work when I want.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I stopped reading after your second paragraph. Your net revenue is $40k and you only drove a total of 28k miles? You're killing it. Been in this business for over 17 years and drive an upper end SUV. Your $1.43/mile is awesome for the X platform. Imagine if you worked this to 60k miles a year like most full time livery drivers? That's nearly $86k/year. You could easily buy a new Honda Fit every 3 years for cash. My vehicle new is $60k. If I get $1.65/mile total driving that's awesome.


I guess I better not tell you that I'm well over $2 a mile as a long term average in Seattle running an XL minivan then... On Friday/Saturday night it's often above $3 a mile after their fees... Uber are serious dicks in most of the country. The rates we have in Seattle/NYC/SF should be the normal rates everywhere in the US, and these places should be a touch higher than they are now, but not much. Drivers in most of the country get dicked so hard it's almost impossible to imagine.



cdm813 said:


> I seriously doubt an older Honda Fit is depreciating at $5k every 28,000 miles.


Well he said his is a 2015. I can see losing something close to that in the first few years if he has a nice/loaded one. That's the exact reason only a moron, or a super desperate person, would ever use a super new car for this stuff. You simply DO NOT want to eat a lot of depreciation.

If you buy right you can have virtually zero depreciation on the vehicle you buy. You'll have maintenance of course, but an oil change doesn't cost any more on a car with 150K miles than it does one with 50K miles, nor do tires, or brakes, or any of the other common stuff you have to do no matter what. Major engine and ****** work is the only difference you MIGHT have on a higher mileage car... But many cars will go up to and exceed 200K miles before any of that stuff even comes up. If it does come up it's still cheaper to replace a ****** than suffer the guaranteed depreciation on a newer car. There is simply no logical reason to drive a newer car for this stuff. It's more profitable to drive an older car PERIOD.


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## cdm813 (Jan 9, 2017)

Ballard_Driver said:


> Well he said his is a 2015. I can see losing something close to that in the first few years if he has a nice/loaded one. That's the exact reason only a moron, or a super desperate person, would ever use a super new car for this stuff. You simply DO NOT want to eat a lot of depreciation.


My thought: buy a car with leather seats, about two years north of the requirement in your area, with mileage that isn't ridiculous. That way, cleanup is easy, pax like the leather seats, and you're not spending a ton of money on the purchase, nor depreciating it a ton. After it's not Uber-eligible, sell it for close to what you paid for it and repeat.

I Uber in a 2005 BMW 325xi. Picked it up at 103k on the clock for $5k. I do my own maintenance. I have 137k on it now and it runs like it's on rails. Get pax compliments all the time. Millenials love getting picked up in a "luxury car" but have no clue that it's a 2005.


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

cdm813 said:


> My thought: buy a car with leather seats, about two years north of the requirement in your area, with mileage that isn't ridiculous. That way, cleanup is easy, pax like the leather seats, and you're not spending a ton of money on the purchase, nor depreciating it a ton. After it's not Uber-eligible, sell it for close to what you paid for it and repeat.
> 
> I Uber in a 2005 BMW 325xi. Picked it up at 103k on the clock for $5k. I do my own maintenance. I have 137k on it now and it runs like it's on rails. Get pax compliments all the time. Millenials love getting picked up in a "luxury car" but have no clue that it's a 2005.


Leather seats in 100 degree weather is a no for me.


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## cdm813 (Jan 9, 2017)

empresstabitha said:


> Leather seats in 100 degree weather is a no for me.


Good point. Especially when cars don't have any sort of climate contrOH WAIT yeah A/C is a thing.


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

cdm813 said:


> Good point. Especially when cars don't have any sort of climate contrOH WAIT yeah A/C is a thing.


Yeah A/C is great when it's been on for awhilee in the car, but that time it spends sitting out in the sun while the A/C makes those moments when you have to get into the. non air conditioned car paimful. Also god forbid the A/C breaks.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Ballard_Driver said:


> I guess I better not tell you that I'm well over $2 a mile as a long term average in Seattle running an XL minivan then... On Friday/Saturday night it's often above $3 a mile after their fees... Uber are serious dicks in most of the country. The rates we have in Seattle/NYC/SF should be the normal rates everywhere in the US, and these places should be a touch higher than they are now, but not much. Drivers in most of the country get dicked so hard it's almost impossible to imagine.
> 
> Well he said his is a 2015. I can see losing something close to that in the first few years if he has a nice/loaded one. That's the exact reason only a moron, or a super desperate person, would ever use a super new car for this stuff. You simply DO NOT want to eat a lot of depreciation.
> 
> If you buy right you can have virtually zero depreciation on the vehicle you buy. You'll have maintenance of course, but an oil change doesn't cost any more on a car with 150K miles than it does one with 50K miles, nor do tires, or brakes, or any of the other common stuff you have to do no matter what. Major engine and ****** work is the only difference you MIGHT have on a higher mileage car... But many cars will go up to and exceed 200K miles before any of that stuff even comes up. If it does come up it's still cheaper to replace a ****** than suffer the guaranteed depreciation on a newer car. There is simply no logical reason to drive a newer car for this stuff. It's more profitable to drive an older car PERIOD.


Then you're the master of the No Dead Miles. If your claim is true at $3/mile on weekends then you'll have no trouble grossing $180k/year if you did this full time.



Ballard_Driver said:


> I guess I better not tell you that I'm well over $2 a mile as a long term average in Seattle running an XL minivan then... On Friday/Saturday night it's often above $3 a mile after their fees... Uber are serious dicks in most of the country. The rates we have in Seattle/NYC/SF should be the normal rates everywhere in the US, and these places should be a touch higher than they are now, but not much. Drivers in most of the country get dicked so hard it's almost impossible to imagine.
> 
> Well he said his is a 2015. I can see losing something close to that in the first few years if he has a nice/loaded one. That's the exact reason only a moron, or a super desperate person, would ever use a super new car for this stuff. You simply DO NOT want to eat a lot of depreciation.
> 
> If you buy right you can have virtually zero depreciation on the vehicle you buy. You'll have maintenance of course, but an oil change doesn't cost any more on a car with 150K miles than it does one with 50K miles, nor do tires, or brakes, or any of the other common stuff you have to do no matter what. Major engine and ****** work is the only difference you MIGHT have on a higher mileage car... But many cars will go up to and exceed 200K miles before any of that stuff even comes up. If it does come up it's still cheaper to replace a ****** than suffer the guaranteed depreciation on a newer car. There is simply no logical reason to drive a newer car for this stuff. It's more profitable to drive an older car PERIOD.


Just looked up your rates in Seattle. Wow, $2.75 and $.30. With time involved you're well over $3/mile. Just hope Uber doesn't do the usual 60% cut to Seattle rates.


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## Ballard_Driver (Jan 10, 2016)

cdm813 said:


> My thought: buy a car with leather seats, about two years north of the requirement in your area, with mileage that isn't ridiculous. That way, cleanup is easy, pax like the leather seats, and you're not spending a ton of money on the purchase, nor depreciating it a ton. After it's not Uber-eligible, sell it for close to what you paid for it and repeat.
> 
> I Uber in a 2005 BMW 325xi. Picked it up at 103k on the clock for $5k. I do my own maintenance. I have 137k on it now and it runs like it's on rails. Get pax compliments all the time. Millenials love getting picked up in a "luxury car" but have no clue that it's a 2005.


Yeah, pretty much. My first Uber vehicle was a $3999 minivan with 106K on the clock. It had leather and a few other high end features. It unfortunately only had 1 year left for Uber in this area because of our 10 year limit, but I had never driven Uber before and wasn't sure I would even like it, so I wanted to get into the game as cheap as possible. I did like it, so I bought a van with 3 years left on it this time. Paid more for it, but even still will only be eating maybe a grand or two a year in depreciation over the next couple years, and I make solid money here so It's kind of a "Whatever" thing for me at that level.

I would never drive a car without leather or vinyl doing this. Seeing how disgusting carpets get I can't imagine having to deal with that problem on the seats too. As it is now I can usually just brush stuff off, once in awhile I need to use a wet cloth. Easy peas. I just hang my head in shame every time I hear about somebody using a newer car for Uber. It's cheaper to buy a beater than to lose all the depreciation on a newer vehicle. Makes no sense.



SEAL Team 5 said:


> Then you're the master of the No Dead Miles. If your claim is true at $3/mile on weekends then you'll have no trouble grossing $180k/year if you did this full time.
> 
> Just looked up your rates in Seattle. Wow, $2.75 and $.30. With time involved you're well over $3/mile. Just hope Uber doesn't do the usual 60% cut to Seattle rates.


Yup. Factor in surge and you can see how it's not too tough on weekends to crack $3 a mile. I do it sometimes on busy nights for XL weeknights, but it's usually $2 something a mile on a more average weeknight, which is plenty of room for profit still.

Other than the fact that it costs 1 million dollars for a normal size house in a good neighborhood around here we have it pretty good in Seattle. I'm probably going to keep doing my Uber side hustle for the next couple years and save up a ton of cash... Then if the real estate market around here hasn't crashed, I'm just going to GTFO of this town. I don't like what it is turning into anyway, so I won't miss it much.

I think the "hip cool west coast city" thing is over hyped. Maybe it's because I'm originally from the Bay Area, and now have lived in Seattle for 12 years that I just don't "appreciate" how great it is... But I don't think so. It's fine and well to have 30 ramen places to choose from, but I just don't think the price premium of living here is worth it anymore with how high the costs have gone. When it was 350K for a house here versus 150K for Des Moines Iowa or something, yeah that's worth it for some of the nice stuff that's around here versus Des Moines... But 800K to 1 million bucks for a 3 or 4 bedroom house... Hell no. I would probably already own my own house and 2 or 3 rentals if I had lived in an area with more reasonable prices, and I'm over putting up with paying out the nose for the "privilege" of staying broke EVEN THOUGH I'VE USUALLY MADE OVER 100K A YEAR. It's BS. You have to make 150-200K a year now just to live a normal middle class lifestyle in Seattle that 50-75K will buy you most other places.

As for our rates, they won't be dropping them outright. They dropped them a couple years ago and they've stayed where they are since then. They've actually done experiments raising them a time or two, but never lowering. So I think we're safe for the time being.


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## pomegranite112 (May 14, 2017)

Okphillip said:


> I ran the numbers and estimate I'm "clearing" less than $9.00/hr. Driving 37 hours per week in SF.
> And driving about 28,000 miles/yr. I also have a regular day job working 36 hrs/wk making about $55,000. I drive a 2015 Honda Fit that is paid for in full.
> Here are the numbers:
> 
> ...


Why do you factor in tax into your calculation when you don't factor it into your 9 to 5. Why do people feel the need to add in their tax. Leave out the tax. Take your gross and subtract away all the actual expense and then once you get to the tax, you just multiply your miles by whatever the IRS has it at. I think it's like 54 cents a mile. You then subtract that amount. So it's gross - expenses - taxeable amount = ??/52 = take home amount.

As far as your 9 to 5, if you wanted to do it the same way (deduct taxes and find out what you make after taxes), you're probably looking at around 15 an hour because you need to get to work and come back from work. You also take a lunch break. That extra 2 hours a day you're not getting paid is an inefficiency that uber does not carry.

I did the math and I'm not sure if it's completely accurate but. 40,000 - (12100) = 27,900 - (14980)= (12920*.25(estimate)--->3230 in tax)

27900-3230=24670/52 = 474 net

You can lower expenses by getting all state. I pay 20 a year in rideshare insurance. Get a car with better mpg. I have a hybrid and I pay 25 dollars for every 500 miles. That puts me at 1400 a year in gas as opposed to your 4k. That would significantly drop your expenses by around 3300. Now you're looking at about almost 550 a week

You're collecting like 1250 a week though after tax. That's actually really really good compared to most people. That's about a six figure salary. Save up and invest in things that will grow your monthly cash flow. Keep saving and investing even after you have saved and invested. one day you will thank yourself.


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## Uber-John (Jan 12, 2017)

Okphillip said:


> I ran the numbers and estimate I'm "clearing" less than $9.00/hr. Driving 37 hours per week in SF.
> And driving about 28,000 miles/yr. I also have a regular day job working 36 hrs/wk making about $55,000. I drive a 2015 Honda Fit that is paid for in full.
> Here are the numbers:
> 
> ...


I have a very simple Excel calculator. You are not too far off though I don't know San Fran pay rates. Take a test drive here.

Very simple. Enter 6 variables such as gas cost per gallon, your MPG, average trip length and Uber pay rate...

**As noted on the calculator, this does *NOT* include tips nor surge pricing.

Take a look, it's a great way to know if what you are doing makes sense. If you are driving just because you enjoy it and don't really care about the money/time factor, then this isn't for you.

Let me know if you have any questions or comments. Thanks - Uber John, Jacksonville, Florida.

*NOTE: I uploaded this as an image snapshot. 
Please download the actual Excel file here>>>*
Here is a Dropbox link to it (safe): https://www.dropbox.com/s/srdc30god6hytcy/uber.xlsx?dl=0


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## Delilah5 (Mar 20, 2017)

Okphillip said:


> I ran the numbers and estimate I'm "clearing" less than $9.00/hr. Driving 37 hours per week in SF.
> And driving about 28,000 miles/yr. I also have a regular day job working 36 hrs/wk making about $55,000. I drive a 2015 Honda Fit that is paid for in full.
> Here are the numbers:
> 
> ...


There is no price you can put for being your own boss. and making your own hours or lack there of. Not even millions a year.


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