# PAX revenge rating, well done Uber.



## Jesusdrivesuber

Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.

My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:

Drunk from the airport.
4.65 (what a surprise).
Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.

Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.

Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.

Kudos on ****ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.

Why is there such little thought put into this company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.

Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


----------



## SurgeMasterMN

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


Agreed this feature does suck. They should update the riders app once a week with their rating. This still would not completely solve the problem but would help. I try to rate 5 stars for everyone and let them know I have got them 5 stars as well. My rating is at 4.96 after 1.5 years of driving full time. Even if there are people I want to rate low I hold back because of the revenge rating they could easily give. If they really deserve it I wont say anything about 5 stars and give them a 1 star but that is once in a blue moon.


----------



## divo183

They really need to do something about this. The sheety part is that your rating won't go up because you do 80 riders and only 15 people will rate you and out of those 15 rated trips either 1 or 2 trips is less than 5 stars. It's easier for it to go down and impossible for it to go up. What Uber needs to implement is that if a person doesn't rate you within a week , that ride is an automatic 5 stars. That way all trips are rated.. But what do I know? I'll just fall in line with the rest of the ants.

A way to get around is rating the rider a 5 star and then going ahead and changing it in the future. This again might be hindering your rating if someone else is doing this. If different driver goes ahead and have the rating changed and the rider's rating updates after you have dropped off the rider, they think it was you and most likely give you a one just because they think it was you.


----------



## Jesusdrivesuber

SurgeMasterMN said:


> Agreed this feature does suck. They should update the riders app once a week with their rating. This still would not completely solve the problem but would help. I try to rate 5 stars for everyone and let them know I have got them 5 stars as well. My rating is at 4.96 after 1.5 years of driving full time. Even if there are people I want to rate low I hold back because of the revenge rating they could easily give. If they really deserve it I wont say anything about 5 stars and give them a 1 star but that is once in a blue moon.


Hell, there are a billion solutions, they only need to pick one.


----------



## Uberfunitis

They also need to batch tips so that drivers can not rate based on tip.


----------



## LAbDog65

Pax are really getting low. They complain to Uber just to get a free or reduced ride. I have a dashcam but I see where they are waiting over a week to complain. I was recently deactivated (since reinstated) about a complaint I know had to be at least a week ago since I hadnt driven for Uber for a week. After not seeing a problem my dashcam has written over.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Uberfunitis said:


> They also need to batch tips so that drivers can not rate based on tip.


Why wouldn't a driver be allowed to rate based on what he values and is important to him?


----------



## sellkatsell44

Uberfunitis said:


> They also need to batch tips so that drivers can not rate based on tip.


That would mean evening the playing field and drivers aren't about that, they're about the hustle.

I've tipped majority. The times I haven't tipped, it's because the driver sucks. My rating gets dinged? I don't care...But I left off rating them poorly even though they drove poorly because I understand uber judges the drivers rating way more then a passenger (if even).

However, just because I don't tip (again, horrible driver, missed multiple turns, pumping the brakes, etc) I get dinged? Yeah I'm gonna rate then, and rate appropriately (e.g. It was a bad ride to begin with anyways).

I'm always ready when I call for the ride, even if the estimate before hitting "request" says the driver is 5+ minutes away...I've seen that change.

I never have the driver pick me up at a weird spot. It's always somewhere they can stop and easily spot. Condos with gated entries? Psssh. Never.

I never eat, drink, smoke or leave any substance behind in a car. I'm super careful to sit down where I can't pick up something, how people leave seats dirty is beyond me.

I don't use aux cord, have plenty of charge and a charger with me anyways, and don't really care what the driver listens or don't listen to.

Basically, i just need a ride from point a to b. Those drivers that are expecting an automatic tip are in for a rude awakening if they can't even get the a to b correct. (I've had a driver actually stop five minutes via car so about 10-15 by foot from the destination I entered, she seem totally confused and after twice trying to let her know that the middle of nowhere she stopped isn't my destination, I gave up and stumbled my way out of there).


----------



## Cableguynoe

sellkatsell44 said:


> Those drivers that are expecting an automatic tip are in for a rude awakening if they can't even get the a to b correct..


Your post doesn't make too much sense to me. 
Most of the time when a driver does get a to b right, he still doesn't get a tip. 
So when a bad driver doesn't get a tip, there's a very good chance he wasn't getting one regardless of how good he was. 
I don't do a good job for tips. If I get one great. But it's not about the tips.

Down rating isn't only about tipping. I've given a 1 star to someone that tipped me $5. 
I thanked them and hit one star as they were exciting vehicle.


----------



## sellkatsell44

Cableguynoe said:


> Your post doesn't make too much sense to me.
> Most of the time when a driver does get a to b right, he still doesn't get a tip.
> So when a bad driver doesn't get a tip, there's a very good chance he wasn't getting one regardless of how good he was.
> I don't do a good job for tips. If I get one great. But it's not about the tips.
> 
> Down rating isn't only about tipping. I've given a 1 star to someone that tipped me $5.
> I thanked them and hit one star as they were exciting vehicle.


What doesn't make sense to you?

I've stated it from my experience...so if most of the time a driver goes from a to b and STILL doesn't get a tip that's nothing to do with me...and that's what I meant by hustle. Because they're not getting tips to go along with the low pay rate, they're going to one star riders. Duh. Makes sense. By allowing the customers to rerate aka revenge rate, its leveling the playing field because then drivers get dinged for rating a ride that will otherwise be a good ride, one, simply because the passenger didn't tip.

Duh.

Honestly I'm not even replying towards you, I'm replying in case anyone else didn't get it or see your reply as something other then a confused person who didn't bother to read my post throughly.

Ps

It's not about tips to YOU but majority of drivers or should I say most drivers, do it for the tip. There's been multiple threads leading to this. For someone who replies to almost every thread I find it hard to believe you don't know. Which makes your reply to mine ironic "Most of the time when a driver does get a to b right, he still doesn't get a tip."

And yes, the bad drivers wouldn't get a tip, except they don't know they're bad. They expect one anyways. The rates are low.


----------



## Uberfunitis

Cableguynoe said:


> Why wouldn't a driver be allowed to rate based on what he values and is important to him?


By that same thought why should a passenger not be able to rate based on the rating received from the driver or whatever he or she values as important even things that are theoretically out of the drivers control such as matched pool rides.


----------



## canyon

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on. They know what their doing. Their doing this just for that reason. They know if you don't give a 5 the customer wont give a 5. Uber is banking on everyone getting 5s now plus it makes Uber look better. POS company
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


They Uber that is know what their doing. Their betting on this because they know eventually everyone will be given a 5 for fear of getting a bad rating. Plus in the end it makes Uber look good showing everyone on both sides are extremely happy. POS company.


----------



## Jesusdrivesuber

Uber is run by morons.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Uberfunitis said:


> By that same thought why should a passenger not be able to rate based on the rating received from the driver or whatever he or she values as important even things that are theoretically out of the drivers control such as matched pool rides.


They can, and they do.


----------



## Rsabcd

Uberfunitis said:


> By that same thought why should a passenger not be able to rate based on the rating received from the driver or whatever he or she values as important even things that are theoretically out of the drivers control such as matched pool rides.


This doesn't answer the question he ask You?

Why shouldn't we be able to separate the more profitable riders via ratings. I drive to make money, i want to know which jobs are going to be more profitable.

I'm not driving 10 minutes to pick up Mr. 4.69☆ I probably would if he was 4.96

Why is this even a discussion, you are in the minority when it comes to drivers and your veiws towards tipping.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver?


Because they are lazy/dumb. I had some ideas on how uberlyft can fix the ratings including:

1) Never re-rate
2) Cannot rate any ride after 24 hours
3) Your score is only impacted by the other party when both have committed or 24 hours has passed (at which point they cannot re-rate you anyway).

This is the only way to avoid retaliatory ratings.

Another thing uberlyft HAVE to do with the above is exclude all ratings from trouble-makers. If you are an ahole pax or driver who always rates 1 star in the above, you could carry on immune to punishment from retaliation. And so, if you have a tendency to consistently give below 5 stars your reviews get ignored and don't hit the other's score.

This system is so damn easy to fix. The above is just a few quick ideas I came up with. I don't know why uber and lyft both have such app problems and terrible design.

As it is now if you are a pax who doesn't travel that much you know with certainty who gave you a low rating and so if they gave you one, now you go in and re-rate. The re-rating alone is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Some drivers are literally keeping logs of rides so they can submit for a re-rate weeks later so that the pax won't know they did it, because it's the only way to give a pax an honest rating without suffering retaliation.


> I try to rate 5 stars for everyone and let them know I have got them 5 stars as well.


I need to try this on the guys in their early 20's who love to give sub-5 for fun. Just to remind them that yeah you have a rating, too.


> If different driver goes ahead and have the rating changed and the rider's rating updates after you have dropped off the rider, they think it was you and most likely give you a one just because they think it was you.


True. I wonder if I have suffered that. We all potentially have.

The rating system is outstandingly badly designed.


----------



## Uberfunitis

Rsabcd said:


> This doesn't answer the question he ask You?
> 
> Why shouldn't we be able to separate the more profitable riders via ratings. I drive to make money, i want to know which jobs are going to be more profitable.
> 
> I'm not driving 10 minutes to pick up Mr. 4.69☆ I probably would if he was 4.96
> 
> Why is this even a discussion, you are in the minority when it comes to drivers and your veiws towards tipping.


I see no reason why a driver should not be able to consider the tip just as I see no reason a passenger should not be able to consider the rating received from the driver. If we want to stop retaliation though we should stop it on both sides as tipping is not required.


----------



## Grahamcracker

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


If driver's get deactivated below 4.6, riders should be as well. Ratings system is bullshit and one sided. It's very common that both rider and driver will low rate the other for a few dollars. Either the driver rates low for not tipping or rider rates low for a refund.


----------



## IronMike60

Grahamcracker said:


> If driver's get deactivated below 4.6, riders should be as well. Ratings system is bullshit and one sided. It's very common that both rider and driver will low rate the other for a few dollars. Either the driver rates low for not tipping or rider rates low for a refund.


No. Riders are paying customers (income) to be maximaxed. Drivers are costs to be minimized.


----------



## Trafficat

Uberfunitis said:


> They also need to batch tips so that drivers can not rate based on tip.


Cash tip = 5 stars, no cash tip = 1 star. Easy reaction by drivers. Everyone knows "I will tip you in the app" is BS anyway. Some drivers who rate down for lack of tips will rerate to increase if there is an in-app tip. The only difference is that those pax won't get rerated.


----------



## Grahamcracker

IronMike60 said:


> No. Riders are paying customers (income) to be maximaxed. Drivers are costs to be minimized.


I am aware of that. I'm saying it needs fixed. I shouldn't have a drunktard evaluate my job performance.

I still vote 2 sided rating system.


----------



## Julescase

Uberfunitis said:


> I see no reason why a driver should not be able to consider the tip just as I see no reason a passenger should not be able to consider the rating received from the driver. If we want to stop retaliation though we should stop it on both sides as tipping is not required.


Tipping in the USA is standard on any service that was satisfactory; for those saying they drive for the pure pleasure of it (lol) and they feel warm and fuzzy inside from 5-stars and a "Great Conversation!" Badge, I call BULLSHIT. We live in a tipping culture, period. I always tipped when taking taxis - a $20 tip on the $65 ride to the airport that I've taken for 18 years while living in LA. Taxis were always grimy, the ride was treacherous, cabbie often rude, music hideous, smell offensive, BUT IF YOU ARE A DECENT HUMAN BEING, YOU TIP, FFS! They're driving a cab - tips are how they get by. That is how people with service jobs EARN THEIR MONEY. We all know cabbies don't get to keep their full fare, hairstylist don't keep the full cost of what you pay to get your hair done, wait staff make next to nothing per hour and tips are their earnings, and rideshare drivers give half of the fare to their boss:Uber or Lyft. Millennials these days are absolutely clueless and rude and for some reason, rarely tip. Their parents have failed big time. Created monsters. I can't wait until those people have service positions, I will never tip a millennial - ever - in any aspect of my life ever again.

I can't imagine what some of my idiot pax are thinking by not tipping. I provide a safe, friendly, clean, STELLAR service by driving them from Point A to Point B. I know my city backwards and forwards. I start every ride with a smile and a nice hello, I'm quiet if pax doesn't seem to want to chat, but I'll have a great conversation with pax if they're into it. I go above and beyond, (I'm not just saying that-many of my pax have left comments about the fact that I go above and beyond). I'll take the route they want me to take if they have a preferred route, I'm never rude, I try to help and make suggestions if they're tourists, and I go into EVERY ride assuming the pax will tip, since I can't do anything else beyond what I'm already doing. My car always smells delicious and I've had hundreds of pax tell me that.

The worst, rudest, most obnoxious pax are absolutely 100% the atrocious millennial 22-32 year old guys. Cocky, obnoxious, intolerable. Half The time these ding dongs tell me they'll tip me well in the app, and they literally NEVER ever do. Why the **** do you say it if you have no intention of doing it? I literally cringe when I realize pax is a millennial guy. Horrendous pax - the worst. I really wish that we could see a passenger's age when we get a ping, I would love to have that information prior to accepting any ride. I'd pass on ALL 22-32 year olds - men & women.

Best, most considerate pax: women ages 40-60. I'd say 80% of this group tips. They have manners and know how to treat people with respect. Etiquette is not a mysterious, unknown land of confusion to these gals. I love when I drive up and see a woman around this age as my pax.

Next best: 40-60 year old men and ANYONE over 65.

Then there are all sorts of "will they or won't they?" folks, you never know for sure with them.

The fact that tips aren't an automatic thing from everyone, assuming their ride was satisfactory, is simply baffling to me. Uber has ****ed this up and erroneously implied tips were either not necessary or already included. Both are untrue as we now know. Tipping should be a standard automatic thing unless something egregious occurs, ie: rude driver or disgusting car. Beyond that, if your ride is satisfactory, YOU SHOULD TIP YOUR DRIVER FOR GOD'S SAKE. Have some self respect and manners and tip your driver who safely navigates the dangerous streets and gets you to your destination in one piece. I hate pax who come up with excuses. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to Uber - take the GD bus. Just like if you can't afford to tip on your meal when you eat out, you shouldn't eat out. Tipping should be factored into your ride - think of it as part of the transaction when you use Lyft/Uber - since it's a fact of life and we live at a tipping culture. If you don't like living in a tipping culture, move to Italy.

And anyone who doesn't tip me gets 1-star. I do this to help my fellow drivers and I hope they do the same for me. When I see a low rated pax, I'm not going to accept their request because I assume that they are a non-tipper and/or an asshole. The rating system is the *only* way drivers can help one another and warn each other about crappy, cheap, annoying pax.

If pax want better ratings, it's simple: be decent human beings and tip your freaking drivers. That's it. That's all it takes - you just need to do what everyone should have been doing all along and tip your driver for the [ridiculously dirt cheap] service provided to you.

The End

PS: don't even get me started on the asshole pax who gives shitty ratings just to be assholes.



Uberfunitis said:


> They also need to batch tips so that drivers can not rate based on tip.


But I *want* to know which passengers tipped me and which ones didn't. I give five stars to the people who tip like decent human beings should, and one stars to assholes that don't tip because they're cheap or have no manners or because their parents failed to teach them etiquette and basic human decency.

Why shouldn't drivers rate based on whether or not people tip them? What the hell else are they going to rate the passengers on? Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.


----------



## IronMike60

Julescase said:


> Tipping in the USA is standard on any service that was satisfactory; for those saying they drive for the pure pleasure of it (lol) and they feel warm and fuzzy inside from 5-stars and a "Great Conversation!" Badge, I call BULLSHIT. We live in a tipping culture, period. I always tipped when taking taxis - a $20 tip on the $65 ride to the airport that I've taken for 18 years while living in LA. Taxis were always grimy, the ride was treacherous, cabbie often rude, music hideous, smell offensive, BUT IF YOU ARE A DECENT HUMAN BEING, YOU TIP, FFS! They're driving a cab - tips are how they get by. That is how people with service jobs EARN THEIR MONEY. We all know cabbies don't get to keep their full fare, hairstylist don't keep the full cost of what you pay to get your hair done, wait staff make next to nothing per hour and tips are their earnings, and rideshare drivers give half of the fare to their boss:Uber or Lyft. Millennials these days are absolutely clueless and rude and for some reason, rarely tip. Their parents have failed big time. Created monsters. I can't wait until those people have service positions, I will never tip a millennial - ever - in any aspect of my life ever again.
> 
> I can't imagine what some of my idiot pax are thinking by not tipping. I provide a safe, friendly, clean, STELLAR service by driving them from Point A to Point B. I know my city backwards and forwards. I start every ride with a smile and a nice hello, I'm quiet if pax doesn't seem to want to chat, but I'll have a great conversation with pax if they're into it. I go above and beyond, (I'm not just saying that-many of my pax have left comments about the fact that I go above and beyond). I'll take the route they want me to take if they have a preferred route, I'm never rude, I try to help and make suggestions if they're tourists, and I go into EVERY ride assuming the pax will tip, since I can't do anything else beyond what I'm already doing. My car always smells delicious and I've had hundreds of pax tell me that.
> 
> The worst, rudest, most obnoxious pax are absolutely 100% the atrocious millennial 22-32 year old guys. Cocky, obnoxious, intolerable. Half The time these ding dongs tell me they'll tip me well in the app, and they literally NEVER ever do. Why the &%[email protected]!* do you say it if you have no intention of doing it? I literally cringe when I realize pax is a millennial guy. Horrendous pax - the worst. I really wish that we could see a passenger's age when we get a ping, I would love to have that information prior to accepting any ride. I'd pass on ALL 22-32 year olds - men & women.
> 
> Best, most considerate pax: women ages 40-60. I'd say 80% of this group tips. They have manners and know how to treat people with respect. Etiquette is not a mysterious, unknown land of confusion to these gals. I love when I drive up and see a woman around this age as my pax.
> 
> Next best: 40-60 year old men and ANYONE over 65.
> 
> Then there are all sorts of "will they or won't they?" folks, you never know for sure with them.
> 
> The fact that tips aren't an automatic thing from everyone, assuming their ride was satisfactory, is simply baffling to me. Uber has &%[email protected]!*ed this up and erroneously implied tips were either not necessary or already included. Both are untrue as we now know. Tipping should be a standard automatic thing unless something egregious occurs, ie: rude driver or disgusting car. Beyond that, if your ride is satisfactory, YOU SHOULD TIP YOUR DRIVER FOR GOD'S SAKE. Have some self respect and manners and tip your driver who safely navigates the dangerous streets and gets you to your destination in one piece. I hate pax who come up with excuses. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to Uber - take the GD bus. Just like if you can't afford to tip on your meal when you eat out, you shouldn't eat out. Tipping should be factored into your ride - think of it as part of the transaction when you use Lyft/Uber - since it's a fact of life and we live at a tipping culture. If you don't like living in a tipping culture, move to Italy.
> 
> And anyone who doesn't tip me gets 1-star. I do this to help my fellow drivers and I hope they do the same for me. When I see a low rated pax, I'm not going to accept their request because I assume that they are a non-tipper and/or an asshole. The rating system is the *only* way drivers can help one another and warn each other about crappy, cheap, annoying pax.
> 
> If pax want better ratings, it's simple: be decent human beings and tip your freaking drivers. That's it. That's all it takes - you just need to do what everyone should have been doing all along and tip your driver for the [ridiculously dirt cheap] service provided to you.
> 
> The End
> 
> PS: don't even get me started on the asshole pax who gives shitty ratings just to be assholes.
> 
> But I *want* to know which passengers tiped me and which ones didn't. I give five stars to the people who tip like decent human beings should, and one stars to assholes that don't tip because they're cheap or have no manners or because their parents failed to teach them etiquette and basic human decency.
> 
> Why shouldn't drivers rate based on whether or not people tip them? What the hell else are they going to rate the passengers on? Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.


What part of "tipping is not required" do you not understand. You are asking for a fee without additional service.


----------



## Spotscat

This is a little "outside the envelope" thinking, but bear with me here...

First, why should there even be a numeric 0.01 - 5.00 rating system for drivers and passengers? If you're a taxi or a bus driver, you don't know what kind of passengers you're going to have on board - they may be the greatest people you've ever met, or the biggest a-hole walking the planet. If you go into a restaurant, you don't know what the skill and attitude of the waiter/waitress is going to be - again, great person or a-hole, you don't know. Nor does the waiter/waitress know what kind of a customer you're going to be - someone who makes no demands and leaves a generous tip, or someone who is never satisfied with the food or service and doesn't tip.

So... do away with the numeric rating system completely. No more drivers rating passengers poorly because they don't tip, no more passengers rating drivers poorly because of some perceived slight - everyone gets "luck of the draw".

Then, change the system to a simple binary, black and white, thumbs-up or thumbs-down rating - "Yes, I would ride with this driver (or passenger) again", or "No, I wouldn't ride with this driver (or passenger) again".

Make any threat of deactivation based upon the percentage of "No" votes over the last 100 rides. If a driver has a 10% or higher "No" vote rating - that's when the company needs to start looking at the driver's performance.

Lastly, make the fare a passenger pays dependent upon them maintaining a satisfactory rating from drivers. If a passenger has, say, 25 rides and 10 of them have been "No" votes, don't kick them off the system, just raise their rate to 1.25X normal rate until it declines. If their negative rating continues to climb, so does the surcharge.


----------



## NoPooPool

IronMike60 said:


> What part of "tipping is not required" do you not understand. You are asking for a fee without additional service.


I would say every part of that statement is what most drivers do not understand. That was some utopian idea that Travis and his coherts dreamed up in their original business plan. Anybody with a brain that is actually working would know that at the dirt cheap rider rates, there is no part of the fare they pay that goes to a driver's bottom line. UberX and Pool rides add very little to a driver's net profit, not to mention, most of the Pool trips I have accepted and run usually turn out to be negative revenue to the driver after all expenses pertaining to that ride from start to completion. You must be a PAX that is merely defending the idea that tips are actually included. I do not even know why I am wasting my time posting a reply to your asinine notion that tips are not necessary or that they are included.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome

Grahamcracker said:


> If driver's get deactivated below 4.6, riders should be as well. Ratings system is bullshit and one sided. It's very common that both rider and driver will low rate the other for a few dollars. Either the driver rates low for not tipping or rider rates low for a refund.





Spotscat said:


> This is a little "outside the envelope" thinking, but bear with me here...
> 
> First, why should there even be a numeric 0.01 - 5.00 rating system for drivers and passengers? If you're a taxi or a bus driver, you don't know what kind of passengers you're going to have on board - they may be the greatest people you've ever met, or the biggest a-hole walking the planet. If you go into a restaurant, you don't know what the skill and attitude of the waiter/waitress is going to be - again, great person or a-hole, you don't know. Nor does the waiter/waitress know what kind of a customer you're going to be - someone who makes no demands and leaves a generous tip, or someone who is never satisfied with the food or service and doesn't tip.
> 
> So... do away with the numeric rating system completely. No more drivers rating passengers poorly because they don't tip, no more passengers rating drivers poorly because of some perceived slight - everyone gets "luck of the draw".
> 
> Then, change the system to a simple binary, black and white, thumbs-up or thumbs-down rating - "Yes, I would ride with this driver (or passenger) again", or "No, I wouldn't ride with this driver (or passenger) again".
> 
> Make any threat of deactivation based upon the percentage of "No" votes over the last 100 rides. If a driver has a 10% or higher "No" vote rating - that's when the company needs to start looking at the driver's performance.
> 
> Lastly, make the fare a passenger pays dependent upon them maintaining a satisfactory rating from drivers. If a passenger has, say, 25 rides and 10 of them have been "No" votes, don't kick them off the system, just raise their rate to 1.25X normal rate until it declines. If their negative rating continues to climb, so does the surcharge.


Agreed!


----------



## tomatopaste

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


Uber uses ratings as a weapon against drivers. They use ratings as a stick in lieu of compensation


----------



## Uberfunitis

A tip by definition is voluntary and not required, that is the bottom line. There are some people who will tip nobody even those who others believe should be tipped and than again there are even some who tip almost everyone they come in contact with, either way it is not a requirement to tip and never is.

Some jobs get more tips than others uber is just a job it seems that people rarely tip for, and there is a reason for that and it mostly revolves around the passenger not getting anything extra for tipping for the most part so there is no incentive to tip. Some are trying to tie ratings to tips but that is a really horrible idea as it makes the ratings useless for the majority who try and use them to determine who will likely damage their vehicle or put the drivers life in danger.



Spotscat said:


> Lastly, make the fare a passenger pays dependent upon them maintaining a satisfactory rating from drivers. If a passenger has, say, 25 rides and 10 of them have been "No" votes, don't kick them off the system, just raise their rate to 1.25X normal rate until it declines. If their negative rating continues to climb, so does the surcharge.


I would imagine that most drivers would no vote the majority of their passengers so that there would be more surcharges.


----------



## Spotscat

Uberfunitis said:


> I would imagine that most drivers would no vote the majority of their passengers so that there would be more surcharges.


Then add a measurement to the matrix where if a driver is giving an excessive number of "No" ratings, they're deactivated.

The idea is to prevent retaliatory ratings by passengers against drivers for obscure reasons, and to prevent drivers down-rating passengers because they don't tip. Keep the existing part of the ratings system where any 1 star rating means the passenger and driver will never be matched again, and let the system work.

If a passenger refuses enough drivers, they eventually won't be able to get rides because they've taken themselves out of the pool of available drivers, and vice-versa.


----------



## Julescase

Grahamcracker said:


> If driver's get deactivated below 4.6, riders should be as well. Ratings system is bullshit and one sided. It's very common that both rider and driver will low rate the other for a few dollars. Either the driver rates low for not tipping or rider rates low for a refund.





IronMike60 said:


> What part of "tipping is not required" do you not understand. You are asking for a fee without additional service.


Do you understand what "service jobs" are? They're jobs where the person providing a service usually doesn't make an hourly fee (Rideshare drivers, waitstaff, hairstylists, cab drivers, etc) and they provide a service (driving around and getting people from Point A to Point B, serving people food/drinks, cutting and coloring hair, etc)

In this country, it's standard practice and considered common courtesy to tip those in service positions. How there is any debate from people on this site on the issue is baffling. Any adult with a shred of human decency and some basic etiquette knowledge knows to tip their drivers. My hairstylist expects a tip, cab drivers expect a tip, Hotel cleaning staff expect a tip, waitstaff expect a tip, and Uber/Lyft drivers SHOULD expect a tip. Uber erroneously implied tips were included and/ or unnecessary for their drivers, and that never should have been the case.

We need to educate those who use Uber to make it clear tipping should be the norm, period. Some people know this fact already but some people like you, millennials (let me guess- you're between the ages of 22-34?), cheapskates, ignoramuses, and clueless folks still, for some reason, insist on insulting riders providing the service of driving your asses around for dirt cheap prices by not tipping and thinking it's ok. It's not, and I'm going to 1-star everyone who doesn't tip so at least OTHER drivers are forewarned. And I really hope other drivers do the same for me.



IronMike60 said:


> What part of "tipping is not required" do you not understand. You are asking for a fee without additional service.


I'm still baffled by your statement- who is saying "tipping is not required" ? No one is saying that. And the SERVICE is the ridiculously inexpensive ride. Which part are you getting confused about here? It's like there's a disconnect and I'm not sure where your thinking comes from.


----------



## Rakos

I have noticed pax...

That requested the ride....

Apologizing for others in the group....

In order to not get down rated...

The poor guy was almost on his knees....

As the other guy was walking away...

Yelling curse words because he was drunk...

Rakos


----------



## Trafficat

Rakos said:


> I have noticed pax...
> 
> That requested the ride....
> 
> Apologizing for others in the group....
> 
> In order to not get down rated...
> 
> The poor guy was almost on his knees....
> 
> As the other guy was walking away...
> 
> Yelling curse words because he was drunk...
> 
> Rakos


Unfortunately, it is usually the other way around for me. Drunk guy is the name on the account. Drunk guy is cursing me out, his wife apologizes for him, he walks out, gives me a low rating and I low rate him too. The wife apologizing is a lovely gesture to her good character though. If her name was on the account, she'd get a 5.


----------



## Grahamcracker

Julescase said:


> Do you understand what "service jobs" are? They're jobs where the person providing a service usually doesn't make an hourly fee (Rideshare drivers, waitstaff, hairstylists, cab drivers, etc) and they provide a service (driving around and getting people from Point A to Point B, serving people food/drinks, cutting and coloring hair, etc)
> 
> In this country, it's standard practice and considered common courtesy to tip those in service positions. How there is any debate from people on this site on the issue is baffling. Any adult with a shred of human decency and some basic etiquette knowledge knows to tip their drivers. My hairstylist expects a tip, cab drivers expect a tip, Hotel cleaning staff expect a tip, waitstaff expect a tip, and Uber/Lyft drivers SHOULD expect a tip. Uber erroneously implied tips were included and/ or unnecessary for their drivers, and that never should have been the case.
> 
> We need to educate those who use Uber to make it clear tipping should be the norm, period. Some people know this fact already but some people like you, millennials (let me guess- you're between the ages of 22-34?), cheapskates, ignoramuses, and clueless folks still, for some reason, insist on insulting riders providing the service of driving your asses around for dirt cheap prices by not tipping and thinking it's ok. It's not, and I'm going to 1-star everyone who doesn't tip so at least OTHER drivers are forewarned. And I really hope other drivers do the same for me.
> 
> I'm still baffled by your statement- who is saying "tipping is not required" ? No one is saying that. And the SERVICE is the ridiculously inexpensive ride. Which part are you getting confused about here? It's like there's a disconnect and I'm not sure where your thinking comes from.


I'm not 100% sure if you understand the context of my message. It was about ratings, not tipping. I only made a statement on how some driver's will rate low because the rider didn't tip. I didn't say whether or not it was a good or bad thing. I just made the statement. Nothing in my message said people should not tip. Not sure why you added me to that message that clearly said I need to learn how to tip.


----------



## Julescase

Grahamcracker said:


> I'm not 100% sure if you understand the context of my message. It was about ratings, not tipping. I only made a statement on how some driver's will rate low because the rider didn't tip. I didn't say whether or not it was a good or bad thing. I just made the statement. Nothing in my message said people should not tip. Not sure why you added me to that message that clearly said I need to learn how to tip.


I didn't add your comment, sorry for the confusion. I think because the comment *I* was responding to had been a response to *YOUR* comment, that for some reason your quote was included. I really don't know why your statement was included above the post I responded to. But we agree with one another- I promise you I'm not debating what your comment says.

Sorry About that - it was completely unintentional.


----------



## Grahamcracker

Julescase said:


> I didn't add your comment, sorry for the confusion. I think because the comment *I* was responding to had been a response to *YOUR* comment, that for some reason your quote was included. I really don't know why your statement was included above the post I responded to. But we agree with one another- I promise you I'm not debating what your comment says.
> 
> Sorry About that - it was completely unintentional.


That can happen. I get it and I do agree with your message to the other guy.


----------



## NoPooPool

ShinyAndChrome said:


> Agreed!


Spotscat has some very well thought out ideas. SPOTSCAT, have you sent your suggestions to the Uber powers that be?


----------



## Zokipoki

I go back days later and change ratings, not because they didn't tip, but because they made me wait, dirtied the car, was rude... etc.... In rare occasions, where I feel the price did not reflect the trip, whether I helped them or did extra things for them, and they didn't even drop $1, I will go back and downrate them for no tip. If I see the person travelling to the airport is on business/work (besides flight attendants/pilots etc..), I will 1 star them for not tipping, which they could easily expense.

Every time you 1 star a rider right after a trip, you will most likely get a 1 star back and a report. The rider should have to request their rating to find out. As a rider I am guilty of revenge rating a driver, but I tipped the guy and I was everything I want in a rider and more. So I revenge him.

I think the driver does have the upper hand right now though, just be patient no matter how angry you are, few days later open up the trip, if it still pisses you off, 1 star away.


----------



## Julescase

Zokipoki said:


> I go back days later and change ratings, not because they didn't tip, but because they made me wait, dirtied the car, was rude... etc.... In rare occasions, where I feel the price did not reflect the trip, whether I helped them or did extra things for them, and they didn't even drop $1, I will go back and downrate them for no tip. If I see the person travelling to the airport is on business/work (besides flight attendants/pilots etc..), I will 1 star them for not tipping, which they could easily expense.
> 
> Every time you 1 star a rider right after a trip, you will most likely get a 1 star back and a report. The rider should have to request their rating to find out. As a rider I am guilty of revenge rating a driver, but I tipped the guy and I was everything I want in a rider and more. So I revenge him.
> 
> I think the driver does have the upper hand right now though, just be patient no matter how angry you are, few days later open up the trip, if it still pisses you off, 1 star away.


Oh, if course I wait 10-12 days to re-rate. I may be blonde, but I'm certainly not stupid!


----------



## Uberfunitis

Julescase said:


> Do you understand what "service jobs" are? They're jobs where the person providing a service usually doesn't make an hourly fee (Rideshare drivers, waitstaff, hairstylists, cab drivers, etc) and they provide a service (driving around and getting people from Point A to Point B, serving people food/drinks, cutting and coloring hair, etc)


Waitstaff in the US at least do get an hourly wage that is equal to or greater than the federal minimum wage.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome

Re


Zokipoki said:


> I go back days later and change ratings, not because they didn't tip, but because they made me wait, dirtied the car, was rude... etc.... In rare occasions, where I feel the price did not reflect the trip, whether I helped them or did extra things for them, and they didn't even drop $1, I will go back and downrate them for no tip. If I see the person travelling to the airport is on business/work (besides flight attendants/pilots etc..), I will 1 star them for not tipping, which they could easily expense.
> 
> Every time you 1 star a rider right after a trip, you will most likely get a 1 star back and a report. The rider should have to request their rating to find out. As a rider I am guilty of revenge rating a driver, but I tipped the guy and I was everything I want in a rider and more. So I revenge him.
> 
> I think the driver does have the upper hand right now though, just be patient no matter how angry you are, few days later open up the trip, if it still pisses you off, 1 star away.


yes so wth is with professionals I drop to the airport not tipping? The only airport tips I get are cash or a person on personal travel. I know that most companies fully expect and cover tipping for services, so it costs these guys nothing personally anyway. I NEVER get tipped when I drop somebody at the airport on business. Ever.


----------



## Uberfunitis

ShinyAndChrome said:


> Re
> yes so wth is with professionals I drop to the airport not tipping? The only airport tips I get are cash or a person on personal travel. I know that most companies fully expect and cover tipping for services, so it costs these guys nothing personally anyway. I NEVER get tipped when I drop somebody at the airport on business. Ever.


When I used to travel for business I believed it was my obligation to keep costs down and make no unnecessary expenditures.


----------



## Julescase

Uberfunitis said:


> Waitstaff in the US at least do get an hourly wage that is equal to or greater than the federal minimum wage.


Not sure where you got that, I'd love a link.

When I worked as a server (at a $$$ restaurant) we made 2.60 an hour and minimum wage was 6.40-ish.

Either way,You're only proving my point even more; waitstaff absolutely SHOULD expect and receive tips, and if what you're saying is fact, they, unlike Uber drivers, earn an hourly wage! So thank you.


----------



## Uberfunitis

Julescase said:


> Not sure where you got that, I'd love a link.
> 
> When I worked as a server (at a $$$ restaurant) we made 2.60 an hour and minimum wage was 6.40-ish.
> 
> Either way,You're only proving my point even more; waitstaff absolutely SHOULD expect and receive tips, and if what you're saying is fact, they, unlike Uber drivers, earn an hourly wage! So thank you.


https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
When the cash wage and tips are combined they must equal at least the fed min wage.

Even if they made less and there was no guarantee like there is not for Uber drivers tips are still completely optional by definition.


----------



## Julescase

ShinyAndChrome said:


> Re
> yes so wth is with professionals I drop to the airport not tipping? The only airport tips I get are cash or a person on personal travel. I know that most companies fully expect and cover tipping for services, so it costs these guys nothing personally anyway. I NEVER get tipped when I drop somebody at the airport on business. Ever.


People ****ing SUCK - that is the reason, simple yet unfortunate. Cheap ass pax are assh. Period.


----------



## UberMensch3000

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


You have to realize that regardless of how often Uber updates, pax aren't likely to be receiving all that many ratings in any given week and, generally speaking, it doesn't take all that much thought to figure out where a 1* came from if you only have maybe four or five trips to sort it out of



IronMike60 said:


> No. Riders are paying customers (income) to be maximaxed. Drivers are costs to be minimized.





Grahamcracker said:


> If driver's get deactivated below 4.6, riders should be as well. Ratings system is bullshit and one sided. It's very common that both rider and driver will low rate the other for a few dollars. Either the driver rates low for not tipping or rider rates low for a refund.


3.3 pax last week. I thought I was reading it wrong


----------



## swingset

LAbDog65 said:


> Pax are really getting low. They complain to Uber just to get a free or reduced ride. I have a dashcam but I see where they are waiting over a week to complain. I was recently deactivated (since reinstated) about a complaint I know had to be at least a week ago since I hadnt driven for Uber for a week. After not seeing a problem my dashcam has written over.


Do what I do, buy big removable USB drive and archive your last few nights footage, only over-write when you fill up the drive. I can hold a couple weeks worth at least.


----------



## Dropking

AT LEAST Uber shows the passenger their rating. I think that's a good thing generally, because it may encourage pax to be on good behavior. Lyft is afraid to show pax their rating. 

Drivers, use a tip jar. I do this just like the baristas at Starbucks and it has doubled my tips. Stuff some dollars (including $5s) into it and pax will be conditioned to understand that you get tipped. There are LOTS of reasons that pax want to tip in cash.


----------



## UberMensch3000

Dropking said:


> AT LEAST Uber shows the passenger their rating. I think that's a good thing generally, because it may encourage pax to be on good behavior. Lyft is afraid to show pax their rating.
> 
> Drivers, use a tip jar. I do this just like the baristas at Starbucks and it has doubled my tips. Stuff some dollars (including $5s) into it and pax will be conditioned to understand that you get tipped. There are LOTS of reasons that pax want to tip in cash.


and of course a lot of reasons the silly little junkie you picked up just might get to thinking you made a sh^tload of cash instead of $5


----------



## steveK2016

Probably karma for all those pleasant, unevenful trips you rated a 1 star just because they didn't tip.


----------



## Dropking

_*"and of course a lot of reasons the silly little junkie you picked up just might get to thinking you made a sh^tload of cash instead of $5"*_

Not sure how this became relevant, but I don't pickup junkies, something I learned very early as a rookie and so should you. If I ever see a passenger that makes me uncomfortable I just cancel the ride. I totally optimize my driving for mornings, long airport runs, and professionals going up and down the SF peninsula. They do tip, and what I'm saying is people tip more, twice as much, with a tip jar prop present.

Again, *get the tip jar*.


----------



## UberMensch3000

steveK2016 said:


> Probably karma for all those pleasant, uneven truly trips you rated a 1 star just because they didn't tip.


Yeah, I personally think its shitty to rate on tip/no tip. thats not what the functionality is there for......But there are shittier pax too so....


----------



## Dropking

I'm a 4.97 Lyft rating and 4.94 Uber rating, and because I care about my ratings I care for my passenger ratings as well. Basically, if a rider is waiting outside and doesn't cause any drama in the car that's an automatic 5 stars. Tips aren't really relevant.

The one time I rated a passenger low for tipping is the passenger from Moraga California, a rural inconvenient pickup location, who tipped precisely $1 on an early morning $40 airport ride. She got 3-stars for leaving an insulting tip. $0 tip would have been better for her. Oh, I forgot something. If I have to load the car with three out of town business travelers in suits who are going on a 5 block ride across market street for $4 bargain ride after a difficult pickup location in a red zone or bus stop, then proceed to talk loudly together while ignoring/objectifying the driver, and then they don't bother to tip, I do leave them 1-3 stars.

Otherwise, I only rate 3-stars or lower for these normal problems: 1) excessive wait time outside during morning rush, 2) excessive back seat driving that distracts me, 3) some combination of annoying habits (talks loudly on phone, eats and drinks without asking permission, expects inconvenient or illegal drop off point, etc etc.).

Back to the tipping topic, do *get a tip jar. * It will double your tips.


----------



## UberMensch3000

Well, unfortunately a majority of my trips are college kids. I don't think a tip "jar" would see much action other than my having to figure out where in the Hell it went after most rides. And fortunately most of my pax tip in the app. That, and I'd rather not hint to anyone that I "might" carry cash. I do tend to wind up in shadesville at some point every night and I'm not going to just drive off and cancel cuz "Oh, he looks like a bad guy". It's just not worth the hassle imo and certainly not given my AO and clientele. As for ratings, if they don't cause me too much grief, and they "usually" don't, they get 5. And I don't think I've ever been in a position to actually give a 4/3. So it's pretty much just been 5's with a handful of 1's for over-the-top stuff


----------



## Adieu

Is that how it goes?

Hmm... I think i got deactivated by a spurious complaint by a revenge rater.



Uberfunitis said:


> I see no reason why a driver should not be able to consider the tip just as I see no reason a passenger should not be able to consider the rating received from the driver. If we want to stop retaliation though we should stop it on both sides as tipping is not required.


Passenger rating is 100% reflecting driver satisfaction with a completed trip... why shouldn't they take tips into account????



LAbDog65 said:


> Pax are really getting low. They complain to Uber just to get a free or reduced ride. I have a dashcam but I see where they are waiting over a week to complain. I was recently deactivated (since reinstated) about a complaint I know had to be at least a week ago since I hadnt driven for Uber for a week. After not seeing a problem my dashcam has written over.


How did you proceed for successful resolution? Currently in limbo over similar nonsense....



UberMensch3000 said:


> 3.3 pax last week. I thought I was reading it wrong


If it's an airport trip and actually 3.33 or a 2-digit Lyft rating, it might not even mean much.... 3 rated trips, 5* 4* 1*, might just be a non-tipper who was once lost and confused the first time around.

Now if it is 3.30, houston we have a problem.....


----------



## sellkatsell44

Julescase said:


> Tipping in the USA is standard on any service that was satisfactory; for those saying they drive for the pure pleasure of it (lol) and they feel warm and fuzzy inside from 5-stars and a "Great Conversation!" Badge, I call BULLSHIT. We live in a tipping culture, period. I always tipped when taking taxis - a $20 tip on the $65 ride to the airport that I've taken for 18 years while living in LA. Taxis were always grimy, the ride was treacherous, cabbie often rude, music hideous, smell offensive, BUT IF YOU ARE A DECENT HUMAN BEING, YOU TIP, FFS! They're driving a cab - tips are how they get by. That is how people with service jobs EARN THEIR MONEY. We all know cabbies don't get to keep their full fare, hairstylist don't keep the full cost of what you pay to get your hair done, wait staff make next to nothing per hour and tips are their earnings, and rideshare drivers give half of the fare to their boss:Uber or Lyft. Millennials these days are absolutely clueless and rude and for some reason, rarely tip. Their parents have failed big time. Created monsters. I can't wait until those people have service positions, I will never tip a millennial - ever - in any aspect of my life ever again.
> 
> I can't imagine what some of my idiot pax are thinking by not tipping. I provide a safe, friendly, clean, STELLAR service by driving them from Point A to Point B. I know my city backwards and forwards. I start every ride with a smile and a nice hello, I'm quiet if pax doesn't seem to want to chat, but I'll have a great conversation with pax if they're into it. I go above and beyond, (I'm not just saying that-many of my pax have left comments about the fact that I go above and beyond). I'll take the route they want me to take if they have a preferred route, I'm never rude, I try to help and make suggestions if they're tourists, and I go into EVERY ride assuming the pax will tip, since I can't do anything else beyond what I'm already doing. My car always smells delicious and I've had hundreds of pax tell me that.
> 
> The worst, rudest, most obnoxious pax are absolutely 100% the atrocious millennial 22-32 year old guys. Cocky, obnoxious, intolerable. Half The time these ding dongs tell me they'll tip me well in the app, and they literally NEVER ever do. Why the &%[email protected]!* do you say it if you have no intention of doing it? I literally cringe when I realize pax is a millennial guy. Horrendous pax - the worst. I really wish that we could see a passenger's age when we get a ping, I would love to have that information prior to accepting any ride. I'd pass on ALL 22-32 year olds - men & women.
> 
> Best, most considerate pax: women ages 40-60. I'd say 80% of this group tips. They have manners and know how to treat people with respect. Etiquette is not a mysterious, unknown land of confusion to these gals. I love when I drive up and see a woman around this age as my pax.
> 
> Next best: 40-60 year old men and ANYONE over 65.
> 
> Then there are all sorts of "will they or won't they?" folks, you never know for sure with them.
> 
> The fact that tips aren't an automatic thing from everyone, assuming their ride was satisfactory, is simply baffling to me. Uber has &%[email protected]!*ed this up and erroneously implied tips were either not necessary or already included. Both are untrue as we now know. Tipping should be a standard automatic thing unless something egregious occurs, ie: rude driver or disgusting car. Beyond that, if your ride is satisfactory, YOU SHOULD TIP YOUR DRIVER FOR GOD'S SAKE. Have some self respect and manners and tip your driver who safely navigates the dangerous streets and gets you to your destination in one piece. I hate pax who come up with excuses. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to Uber - take the GD bus. Just like if you can't afford to tip on your meal when you eat out, you shouldn't eat out. Tipping should be factored into your ride - think of it as part of the transaction when you use Lyft/Uber - since it's a fact of life and we live at a tipping culture. If you don't like living in a tipping culture, move to Italy.
> 
> And anyone who doesn't tip me gets 1-star. I do this to help my fellow drivers and I hope they do the same for me. When I see a low rated pax, I'm not going to accept their request because I assume that they are a non-tipper and/or an asshole. The rating system is the *only* way drivers can help one another and warn each other about crappy, cheap, annoying pax.
> 
> If pax want better ratings, it's simple: be decent human beings and tip your freaking drivers. That's it. That's all it takes - you just need to do what everyone should have been doing all along and tip your driver for the [ridiculously dirt cheap] service provided to you.
> 
> The End
> 
> PS: don't even get me started on the asshole pax who gives shitty ratings just to be assholes.
> 
> But I *want* to know which passengers tiped me and which ones didn't. I give five stars to the people who tip like decent human beings should, and one stars to assholes that don't tip because they're cheap or have no manners or because their parents failed to teach them etiquette and basic human decency.
> 
> Why shouldn't drivers rate based on whether or not people tip them? What the hell else are they going to rate the passengers on? Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.


Just curious. Do you tip at a cafe where you pay at the register? I do. Do you tip at McDonald's? I don't. Do you tip at your local gap or old navy? Especially after bringing in a huge pile of sales items to try on? I don't. But I don't shop in person it's always online.

Do you tip when it comes to take outs? I do, about $1-2 regardless of the total.

ETA/I ask because they all make about the same hourly where I come from. Just like the servers at restaurants.


----------



## Julescase

sellkatsell44 said:


> Just curious. Do you tip at a cafe where you pay at the register? I do. Do you tip at McDonald's? I don't. Do you tip at your local gap or old navy? Especially after bringing in a huge pile of sales items to try on? I don't. But I don't shop in person it's always online.
> 
> Do you tip when it comes to take outs? I do, about $1-2 regardless of the total.
> 
> ETA/I ask because they all make about the same hourly where I come from. Just like the servers at restaurants.


Strange question re: Gap....No- of course I don't tip at the gap or Old Navy, where they make minimum-wage or more, in other words they have an hourly salary. Do other people tip at the Gap? They probably make more hourly then we do as drivers. As others in service positions, drivers do not make an hourly salary nor do hairstylists nor do cabbies, etc...You get the picture. Gap, McDonalds, etc are CUSTOMER service positions- there's a huge difference between the two.

Yes, I usually throw a dollar or two in at my Starbucks or my local coffee shop; as a former server, I know how nice it is to be given a little extra tip, and that one or two dollars will mean much more to them that it will to me. Believe me, an extra buck or two goes a long Way and it's not a bad thing to be on the good side of your local baristas or servers, and like I said dollar or two will mean more to them than it does to me. people remember when you tip them well and treat them kindly.


----------



## sellkatsell44

Julescase said:


> Strange question re: Gap....No- of course I don't tip at the gap or Old Navy, where they make minimum-wage or more, in other words they have an hourly salary. Do other people tip at the Gap? They probably make more hourly then we do as drivers. As others in service positions, drivers do not make an hourly salary nor do hairstylists nor do cabbies, etc...You get the picture. Gap, McDonalds, etc are CUSTOMER service positions- there's a huge difference between the two.
> 
> Yes, I usually throw a dollar or two in at my Starbucks or my local coffee shop; as a former server, I know how nice it is to be given a little extra tip, and that one or two dollars will mean much more to them that it will to me. Believe me, an extra buck or two goes a long Way and it's not a bad thing to be on the good side of your local baristas or servers, and like I said dollar or two will mean more to them than it does to me. people remember when you tip them well and treat them kindly.


Actually, Starbucks servers do make hourly, probably more then the folks at the gap, and better benefits imho. Speaking of as a former gap employee. The things we'd have to see. The messes people leave in the dressing room (including feces).

How is that a position different from one at Starbucks? Or at the local cafe or restaurant, at least here, where they make the same minimum wage? And there's also healthy sf tax, which ensures that the workers also get health coverage (whether the employer follows or not is another area).

So why wouldn't you tip someone (dressing room) at the gap like some countries have people stationed at the bathroom (heck the comedy cellar at NYC does this) and they get tipped as well? Sure it's only a dollar or so, but it's tips.

PS, everything is CUSTOMER service imho and with the tips that servers take in, they make more then double, triple hourly what someone who hourly is making. To be honest, I see a bit of difference in the type of work, but not so much to warrant that big of a difference via tips. You want a real hard job? Try being a janitor.


----------



## DriverDC_Balt

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


I drive for both and had not really had issues with Lyft until this weekend. Went from a 4.91 to a 4.83 overnight because ratings reflect instantly.

Reasons: 
Issue one with Lyft Line: 4 people get into car.
Me: You know you picked Lyft Line and that's for only two people, right?
Them: Yeah, but we're just going right around the corner and I contact Lyft afterwards to sort everything out.
Me: Rated them three stars after the trip and reported it to Lyft CS. I'm pretty sure because I said something and rated them low, I got rated low too.

Issue two: Passenger late for work.
Them: Are you on your way? Your dot hasn't move. Where are you?
Me: *Sitting at light that takes forever to change* I'm on my way. I should be there in about 5 minutes, according to the GPS.
Them: *Getting into car after I get there* This is what I get for calling a Lyft at the last minute.
Me: *Well duh?* Pretty sure she gave me a low rating for her being late.


----------



## Uberfunitis

sellkatsell44 said:


> Actually, Starbucks servers do make hourly, probably more then the folks at the gap, and better benefits imho. Speaking of as a former gap employee. The things we'd have to see. The messes people leave in the dressing room (including feces).
> 
> How is that a position different from one at Starbucks? Or at the local cafe or restaurant, at least here, where they make the same minimum wage? And there's also healthy sf tax, which ensures that the workers also get health coverage (whether the employer follows or not is another area).
> 
> So why wouldn't you tip someone (dressing room) at the gap like some countries have people stationed at the bathroom (heck the comedy cellar at NYC does this) and they get tipped as well? Sure it's only a dollar or so, but it's tips.
> 
> PS, everything is CUSTOMER service imho and with the tips that servers take in, they make more then double, triple hourly what someone who hourly is making. To be honest, I see a bit of difference in the type of work, but not so much to warrant that big of a difference via tips. You want a real hard job? Try being a janitor.


I honestly do not understand the divide where some jobs seem to have tips associated with them and others do not. It does not seem to have a rhyme or reason to me as most are customer service of some kind be that retail or a server to the guy that comes out and sprays my home for termites.



DriverDC_Balt said:


> I drive for both and had not really had issues with Lyft until this weekend. Went from a 4.91 to a 4.83 overnight because ratings reflect instantly.
> 
> Reasons:
> Issue one with Lyft Line: 4 people get into car.
> Me: You know you picked Lyft Line and that's for only two people, right?
> Them: Yeah, but we're just going right around the corner and I contact Lyft afterwards to sort everything out.
> Me: Rated them three stars after the trip and reported it to Lyft CS. I'm pretty sure because I said something and rated them low, I got rated low too.
> 
> Issue two: Passenger late for work.
> Them: Are you on your way? Your dot hasn't move. Where are you?
> Me: *Sitting at light that takes forever to change* I'm on my way. I should be there in about 5 minutes, according to the GPS.
> Them: *Getting into car after I get there* This is what I get for calling a Lyft at the last minute.
> Me: *Well duh?* Pretty sure she gave me a low rating for her being late.


I would not have taken the first ones and canceled on them as it could have been a mess with added riders along the way that you would have had to cancel having no room.


----------



## Julescase

sellkatsell44 said:


> Actually, Starbucks servers do make hourly, probably more then the folks at the gap, and better benefits imho. Speaking of as a former gap employee. The things we'd have to see. The messes people leave in the dressing room (including feces).
> 
> How is that a position different from one at Starbucks? Or at the local cafe or restaurant, at least here, where they make the same minimum wage? And there's also healthy sf tax, which ensures that the workers also get health coverage (whether the employer follows or not is another area).
> 
> So why wouldn't you tip someone (dressing room) at the gap like some countries have people stationed at the bathroom (heck the comedy cellar at NYC does this) and they get tipped as well? Sure it's only a dollar or so, but it's tips.
> 
> PS, everything is CUSTOMER service imho and with the tips that servers take in, they make more then double, triple hourly what someone who hourly is making. To be honest, I see a bit of difference in the type of work, but not so much to warrant that big of a difference via tips. You want a real hard job? Try being a janitor.


I'm not sure what your point is or what you're debating. Of course Starbucks employees make an hourly wage; every job in customer service makes an hourly wage. I think you're confusing CUSTOMER service jobs with SERVICE jobs.

But I still don't understand what you're saying- you're all over the map and I really can't follow your main argument nor do I see the issue you're trying to prove. Sorry - it's probably me, but I'm just not following. : /

I tip well everywhere I go, when warranted, with service jobs (Uber, cabs, my hair stylist, etc) As a former server and bartender, I know how much s good tip can mean to someone. It absolutely makes your day. As an Uber driver, I remember vividly who has tipped me extremely well ($40 on a $7 ride, $20 on a $5 ride, etc) and I will always appreciate their generosity.


----------



## Uberfunitis

What is the difference between someone who opens you a bottle of beer that you tip and someone who helps you find clothing and checks you out and does not get a tip. Both have per hour pay that is more than likely guaranteed to be about the same but one gets a tip and the other does not?


----------



## sellkatsell44

Julescase said:


> I'm not sure what your point is or what you're debating. Of course Starbucks employees make an hourly wage; every job in customer service makes an hourly wage. I think you're confusing CUSTOMER service jobs with SERVICE jobs.
> 
> But I still don't understand what you're saying- you're all over the map and I really can't follow your main argument nor do I see the issue you're trying to prove. Sorry - it's probably me, but I'm just not following. : /
> 
> I tip well everywhere I go, when warranted, with service jobs (Uber, cabs, my hair stylist, etc) As a former server and bartender, I know how much s good tip can mean to someone. It absolutely makes your day. As an Uber driver, I remember vividly who has tipped me extremely well ($40 on a $7 ride, $20 on a $5 ride, etc) and I will always appreciate their generosity.


Where am I going?

Too hard for you to grasp?

I'll use less words then.

Retail is customer service is basically a service job, e.g. Working at gap, picking up after customers. How is that not a service? Because a customer can trash the place and walk out without spending a dime? Is that what differentiates between a server and a retailing clothing worker?


----------



## WaveRunner1

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


I proposed updating passenger score after at least 10 ratings. There's also the issue if a passenger pukes in your car and you file a cleaning compensation, the passenger will retaliate with a one star. Uber should lock ratings once a complaint is submitted. At the end of the day though ratings are meaningless. I have maintained above 4.9 since I started driving and get nothing. Actually get bad Quest promotions often. 180 Days Of Scams is utter bullshit. Uber robs pay via upfront fares scam and booking fees. Rachel Holt manager of Uber NA and Aaron Shildkrout manager of driver product should be fired. They are part of Travis' administration and Uber will continue to be trash unless they are gone.


----------



## iheartuber

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


Ratings do not reflect instantly is true-- in a way.

If the pax rated you right then and there after you end the ride then yes the ratings will show up instantly. If the pax waits a day to rate you then it shows up then


----------



## Plato

My rating is always around 4.8. If somebody really pisses me off, I don't change their rating until the following week. Takes a lot to really piss me off though. There are always going to be one or two idiots. I refuse to let it ruin my day.


----------



## PrestonT

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


This is by design. Uber enacted this policy to combat drivers who were down-rating riders for being stiffs.


----------



## pomegranite112

Cableguynoe said:


> Why wouldn't a driver be allowed to rate based on what he values and is important to him?


Igbore him, he's a troll


----------



## BurgerTiime

You guys are all morons for caring about your ratings.


----------



## htboston

They should really let us rate 3-5 days ahead instead of on the spot. These itches at Uber expect us drivers to give a thorough rating on the spot while parked on the side of the road. Not to mention, a comment too! Wow, they really care about driver's safety by making us do things right away.

Always rate 5 stars then wait 3 days until you adjust it to their true rating. I heard that might not work because if you make too many 1 star adjustments, then it doesn't count, so we are pretty screwed.


----------



## Julescase

sellkatsell44 said:


> View attachment 161768
> 
> Where am I going?
> 
> Too hard for you to grasp?
> 
> I'll use less words then.
> 
> Retail is customer service is basically a service job, e.g. Working at gap, picking up after customers. How is that not a service? Because a customer can trash the place and walk out without spending a dime? Is that what differentiates between a server and a retailing clothing worker?


Yes apparently this is just too hard for me to grasp. I'm not sure what the attitude is about, or why you're pushing for people at the gap to get tips. What's with the gap, do you have stock in the company or something? Where does the gap fit into this entire thread? Why are you posting a picture of T-shirts? There are so many unanswered questions. Yours are the most random comments I've ever read.

And again, you are most certainly confusing the terms "customer service" and "service jobs", and unfortunately you don't get to decide that Gap customer service positions are also service jobs, lolol. If only life was that easy.....

Let me guess - you're a millennial between the ages of 20 and 30, and you're also a very special snowflake whose parents never told you "no" who also likes to make up her own definitions of various retail positions...oh and who either works at the gap or has stock in the gap.

I'm not sure if you noticed this, but this forum is called Uber people ( "UP") not Gap People ("GP"), so you're battling up a hill that no one here is fighting you on.

You can call Gap customer "service positions" or "astronaut positions" or anything you want for all I care, it's not going to change the fact that they are customer service positions and no one on this planet tips them because they are paid an hourly wage, unlike service positions. There are quite a few concrete differences between the two terms - you can educate yourself further about them if you are so inclined. My teaching lesson is over now.


----------



## Plato

Careful Jules,


----------



## sellkatsell44

Julescase said:


> Yes apparently this is just too hard for me to grasp. I'm not sure what the attitude is about, or why you're pushing for people at the gap to get tips. What's with the gap, do you have stock in the company or something? Where does the gap fit into this entire thread? Why are you posting a picture of T-shirts? There are so many unanswered questions. Yours are the most random comments I've ever read.
> 
> And again, you are most certainly confusing the terms "customer service" and "service jobs", and unfortunately you don't get to decide that Gap customer service positions are also service jobs, lolol. If only life was that easy.....
> 
> Let me guess - you're a millennial between the ages of 20 and 30, and you're also a very special snowflake whose parents never told you "no" who also likes to make up her own definitions of various retail positions...oh and who either works at the gap or has stock in the gap.
> 
> I'm not sure if you noticed this, but this forum is called Uber people ( "UP") not Gap People ("GP"), so you're battling up a hill that no one here is fighting you on.
> 
> You can call Gap customer "service positions" or "astronaut positions" or anything you want for all I care, it's not going to change the fact that they are customer service positions and no one on this planet tips them because they are paid an hourly wage, unlike service positions. There are quite a few concrete differences between the two terms - you can educate yourself further about them if you are so inclined. My teaching lesson is over now.


What lesson?

I'm sorry you're coming off really terse. That picture was meant to be in humor. I didn't realize that even that was a bit too much.

No, I don't have stocks in gap, I've Tesla but no gap.

No I don't have difficulty comprehending that they're two different things in terms of one is titled "customer service" and one is "service job" but what I'm saying is that there is CUSTOMER SERVICE in both jobs. As in both positions SERVICE customers. My goodness.

You can tip someone at Starbucks but you can't tip someone at McDonald's?

You can tip someone who brings food out to you, but you can't tip someone who does your piled high of go backs.

Tell me, which is harder. Trying to fold an entire wall of jeans over and over or carry food out?

I bet you won't answer. You haven't answered any of my previous Qs fully, only the ones you felt comfortable with. When you feel yourself backed up in a corner because maybe, just maybe, you're not entirely right, you lash out like above crazily.

Lesson taught? I'm so confused. Do you even understand what I'm discussing? I'm talking about the world we live in now. Maybe your argument would have made sense ten years ago when waiters were still paid $2/hr and the tips would bring them up over to minimum wage but things are different now. Nowadays waiters make the same minimum for the job that a retail person (I guess I won't confuse you by describing all the servicing they do) and that's BEFORE tips. After tips they clear anywhere between $21-31 depending on where they work.



Plato said:


> Careful Jules,




ETA - I don't work at the gap either anymore, when I was in school yes. But I can't afford to be happy and work at the gap. I much rather be waitressing tables or being behind the bar. Triple the pay for about the same amount of work and BS. Anyone who says otherwise obviously never worked mass retail, which I'm going to guess is you.


----------



## PrestonT

Retail is awful. Awful.


----------



## Chapindc

Shame on those who care abt own ratings & don't rate accordingly instantly for fear of retaliation, I do all 5 unless they fit hostile but can only b a 1, no in betweens, sometimes I re rate if some pax gets me thinking too much, it's a clear sign I Fup rating them initially


----------



## jfinks

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Uber is run by morons.


And developed by uber morons. Pretty sad state of a company.


----------



## D_D

I personally think the entire rating system is bogus. Too much favouritism where resteraunts only favour certain drivers only and will give bad ratings to other drivers. I could only imagine in the near future there will be a rating system that if you are 4 stars you can't go to certain resteraunts, banks, grocery etc...


----------



## Spotscat

NoPooPool said:


> Spotscat has some very well thought out ideas. SPOTSCAT, have you sent your suggestions to the Uber powers that be?


I'm thinking about doing that very thing. It couldn't hurt to try, and I think if Uber is truly sincere about making changes to the platform to benefit the drivers, then feedback from drivers about what changes are needed would be beneficial.

Or... they may send the death squads after me.

We shall see,


----------



## ShinyAndChrome

Uberfunitis said:


> When I used to travel for business I believed it was my obligation to keep costs down and make no unnecessary expenditures.


i don't believe you. Are you saying you didn't tip at restaurants while on business?

I'm sorry to say I have gone to the dark side. I don't expect tips for the most part but if I am dropping people at the airport on business now and they can't even throw a dollar my way I am now going to re-rate them at four stars. So yeah if you are not paying for the trip and can't tip a buck your rating will go down.

Also if I have to get out of the vehicle for any reason (e.g. Bags to open trunk), I get a tip or you get a re-rate down to four.

Another guy had me wait 7 min the other night (was about to cancel but it was xl and I was kind of blocked from escape). He was a 4.2. He apologized profusely but did not tip. In a few days his rating is about to drop further. It was prime time and I made $1.77 for waiting 7 minutes.


----------



## MrMikeNC

Rakos said:


> I have noticed pax...
> 
> That requested the ride....
> 
> Apologizing for others in the group....
> 
> In order to not get down rated...
> 
> The poor guy was almost on his knees....
> 
> As the other guy was walking away...
> 
> Yelling curse words because he was drunk...
> 
> Rakos


I've had this happen before. And I still one star them. For all I know if I didn't if I get this guy again his same a-hole friends will be with him again. I don't care if it's the nicest guy/woman on the planet they are letting their friends eff it up for them.

As for this topic. I'm more likely to grade better if a tip is involved, yes...but I won't grade low if no tip is involved. To me that doesn't seem fair. If everything else was great about the pax except they didn't tip? That's still 5 stars to me. Tipping is, after all, optional, so I'm not going to hold that against them. But beyond that, I grade mostly on " Would I ever want this person in my car again?" Oh and I avoid anything below 4.77. In my experience anything below that they _earned _it so stay away.


----------



## Urbanappalachian

I believe passengers DO NOT care if they rate a driver badly due to PERSONAL reasons just to drop a driver's ratings because passengers could care less if they get you again as a driver (more likely they won't since there are too many drivers anyway). These rideshares should have better rating system. If a driver rates passengers low all the time, a driver won't have customers! It's a different situation with passengers rating a driver low! They know they could easily get another driver to pick them up anyway. I wish I could rate my passengers low all the time, but that would leave me with no customers! LOL.

One passenger I had today I think rated me low just because he may have thought I didn't "like his vibe" because I didn't "mingle" with the passenger (he may have thought I was "racist", etc. the usual "assumption"). Another way a passenger could validate rating a driver low to show Uber or Lyft is to take a different route other than where the GPS is supposed to take them as if to prove to Uber or Lyft that I didn't know my way around or that I tend to "get lost" (i.e. poor navigation skills). Then I would get an e-mail from either Lyft or Uber stating that I need to work on my navigation skills!



Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


----------



## Trafficat

Dropking said:


> The one time I rated a passenger low for tipping is the passenger from Moraga California, a rural inconvenient pickup location, who tipped precisely $1 on an early morning $40 airport ride. She got 3-stars for leaving an insulting tip. $0 tip would have been better for her. .


That's just dumb. $0 tip is worse than $1 tip.


----------



## MrMikeNC

Urbanappalachian said:


> Another way a passenger could validate rating a driver low to show Uber or Lyft is to take a different route other than where the GPS is supposed to take them as if to prove to Uber or Lyft that I didn't know my way around or that I tend to "get lost" (i.e. poor navigation skills). Then I would get an e-mail from either Lyft or Uber stating that I need to work on my navigation skills!


In the Charlotte, NC forum I talked about a pax that dinged me on navigation because I wouldn't break traffic rules or drive through blockades to get him to a concert he was late for. He even wanted me to ignore a police officer directing traffic at the concert's main entrance. "Go around him he can't stop you!"


----------



## unitxero

MrMikeNC said:


> In the Charlotte, NC forum I talked about a pax that dinged me on navigation because I wouldn't break traffic rules or drive through blockades to get him to a concert he was late for. He even wanted me to ignore a police officer directing traffic at the concert's main entrance. "Go around him he can't stop you!"


Your pax was right though, that officer can't stop you, the police cruisers behind that officer will stop you. Entitled pax are one of the worst types of pax.


----------



## Chapindc

MrMikeNC said:


> In the Charlotte, NC forum I talked about a pax that dinged me on navigation because I wouldn't break traffic rules or drive through blockades to get him to a concert he was late for. He even wanted me to ignore a police officer directing traffic at the concert's main entrance. "Go around him he can't stop you!"


Those r the ones u kick out the car at the nearest safe spot with cameras preferably & call the police if they don't get out of the car


----------



## NoPooPool

DriverDC_Balt said:


> I drive for both and had not really had issues with Lyft until this weekend. Went from a 4.91 to a 4.83 overnight because ratings reflect instantly.
> 
> Reasons:
> Issue one with Lyft Line: 4 people get into car.
> Me: You know you picked Lyft Line and that's for only two people, right?
> Them: Yeah, but we're just going right around the corner and I contact Lyft afterwards to sort everything out.
> Me: Rated them three stars after the trip and reported it to Lyft CS. I'm pretty sure because I said something and rated them low, I got rated low too.
> 
> Issue two: Passenger late for work.
> Them: Are you on your way? Your dot hasn't move. Where are you?
> Me: *Sitting at light that takes forever to change* I'm on my way. I should be there in about 5 minutes, according to the GPS.
> Them: *Getting into car after I get there* This is what I get for calling a Lyft at the last minute.
> Me: *Well duh?* Pretty sure she gave me a low rating for her being late.


Cheap demanding PAX on LyftLine and Uber Pool are the main hit on driver ratings. It is always a risk to take them. Just say no to Pool and LyftLine.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome

So to be clear every time I submit a rerate to a pax an uber employee has to manually change that right? What a spectacular waste of resources on their end. I have a bunch more rerates to submit soon. 

The system all but forces us to rate as a five off the bat. The sad thing is if I rerate later another driver may get the rider's wrath if they think he did it. So for all I know some of my sub five are for the same reason.


----------



## Jurisinceptor

Cableguynoe said:


> Your post doesn't make too much sense to me.
> Most of the time when a driver does get a to b right, he still doesn't get a tip.
> So when a bad driver doesn't get a tip, there's a very good chance he wasn't getting one regardless of how good he was.
> I don't do a good job for tips. If I get one great. But it's not about the tips.
> 
> Down rating isn't only about tipping. I've given a 1 star to someone that tipped me $5.
> I thanked them and hit one star as they were exciting vehicle.


You're an idiot if you don't TRY to work for tips.


----------



## Cableguynoe

Jurisinceptor said:


> You're an idiot if you don't TRY to work for tips.


You're an idiot if you didn't understand what I said. 
I actually do pretty well in tips most of the time. Better than many, based on what I read here. 
But that's not what I was saying. 
I would provide good service even if I knew before hand I wasn't going to get a tip. 
That's what I meant when I said it's not about the tips. I'm getting paid, so I'm doing the job regardless, tip or no tip.



sellkatsell44 said:


> What doesn't make sense to you?
> 
> It's not about tips to YOU but majority of drivers or should I say most drivers, do it for the tip. There's been multiple threads leading to this. For someone who replies to almost every thread I find it hard to believe you don't know.


Late to the party. Just saw your reply.

It's pretty funny how you pointed out how its not about ME but the majority of the drivers.

You come in here and start talking about how you tip, you stand at the curb, you don't eat and drink, blah blah blah. 
If you're really like that, that's great. No, that's fantastic. 
We've all had good pax. We know they're out there. Duh 
That's not what this thread or many like it are about. We're talking about the bad pax. Not you. Bad pax. 
The ones that don't do those things.

This specific thread is about about bad pax. Duh 
So it's not about you. It's about the majority of pax who drivers might give a well deserved bad rating to someone, and possibly get a bad rating in retaliation. 
Duh

That's why it didn't make sense to me


----------



## backcountryrez

I got dinged for “ friendliness”. Well if I talk to you and you answer with closed-ended answers, it’s clear you don’t wanna talk. You want counseling, go see Dr. Phil.


----------



## Uberfunitis

ShinyAndChrome said:


> So to be clear every time I submit a rerate to a pax an uber employee has to manually change that right? What a spectacular waste of resources on their end. I have a bunch more rerates to submit soon.
> 
> The system all but forces us to rate as a five off the bat. The sad thing is if I rerate later another driver may get the rider's wrath if they think he did it. So for all I know some of my sub five are for the same reason.


Its all automated and canned responses, I am not even sure that they actually change ratings for people who change the ratings more than the average.


----------



## MrMikeNC

ShinyAndChrome said:


> So to be clear every time I submit a rerate to a pax an uber employee has to manually change that right? What a spectacular waste of resources on their end. I have a bunch more rerates to submit soon.
> 
> The system all but forces us to rate as a five off the bat. The sad thing is if I rerate later another driver may get the rider's wrath if they think he did it. So for all I know some of my sub five are for the same reason.


Keep this in mind though: someone at this very site a while ago posted a convo with an Uber employee who revealed that if you re-rate too often they will eventually "soft ban" you, meaning they will _tell_ you they changed the rating but won't. What that magic number is (5 times? 10? 20?), not sure. But something to keep in mind.


----------



## Jc.

What would Jesusdrivesuber do?


----------



## NoPooPool

Spotscat said:


> I'm thinking about doing that very thing. It couldn't hurt to try, and I think if Uber is truly sincere about making changes to the platform to benefit the drivers, then feedback from drivers about what changes are needed would be beneficial.
> 
> Or... they may send the death squads after me.
> 
> We shall see,


Ha-ha, I sure hope not.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome

Uberfunitis said:


> Its all automated and canned responses, I am not even sure that they actually change ratings for people who change the ratings more than the average.


but sometimes the response is almost immediate and other times much later...

It did occur to me though how do we even know they are changing the rating?


----------



## MrMikeNC

ShinyAndChrome said:


> Honestly I can think of little that is more humiliating than paying $50 to uber so I could take a class on being a better sub-minimum wage driver. That would truly be an absolute, no hyperbole, low in my life.


From what I understand, if you pay the $50, take the class, and finish it to their satisfaction (I guess there's a test), they reset your rating all the way back to 5. So you could retain the info long enough to pass, the point is to get your rating back to a 5. When it drops that low to where you have to take the class in the first place there's no other way to recover it, even if you get rated 5-Stars ten times in a row.

In other words, look at it as a roundabout way to pay $$$ to get your rating back to a 5. The class part is just to make it sound good on paper.


----------



## sellkatsell44

Cableguynoe said:


> You're an idiot if you didn't understand what I said.
> I actually do pretty well in tips most of the time. Better than many, based on what I read here.
> But that's not what I was saying.
> I would provide good service even if I knew before hand I wasn't going to get a tip.
> That's what I meant when I said it's not about the tips. I'm getting paid, so I'm doing the job regardless, tip or no tip.
> 
> Late to the party. Just saw your reply.
> 
> It's pretty funny how you pointed out how its not about ME but the majority of the drivers.
> 
> You come in here and start talking about how you tip, you stand at the curb, you don't eat and drink, blah blah blah.
> If you're really like that, that's great. No, that's fantastic.
> We've all had good pax. We know they're out there. Duh
> That's not what this thread or many like it are about. We're talking about the bad pax. Not you. Bad pax.
> The ones that don't do those things.
> 
> This specific thread is about about bad pax. Duh
> So it's not about you. It's about the majority of pax who drivers might give a well deserved bad rating to someone, and possibly get a bad rating in retaliation.
> Duh
> 
> That's why it didn't make sense to me


And I was pretty clear in my initial post that it was based off my experience so I can't share that?

You're talking in circles.

Also I very much doubt it, you seem to read every thread and post.

But okay,

Good luck to you.


----------



## Cableguynoe

sellkatsell44 said:


> Also I very much doubt it, you seem to read every thread and post.
> 
> But okay,
> .


I try. 
You have any idea how many threads I'm subscribed to? 
I'll get to them eventually. Forgive me if SU threads and private messages get priority over you


----------



## freddieman

SurgeMasterMN said:


> Agreed this feature does suck. They should update the riders app once a week with their rating. This still would not completely solve the problem but would help. I try to rate 5 stars for everyone and let them know I have got them 5 stars as well. My rating is at 4.96 after 1.5 years of driving full time. Even if there are people I want to rate low I hold back because of the revenge rating they could easily give. If they really deserve it I wont say anything about 5 stars and give them a 1 star but that is once in a blue moon.


Really doing a disservice to the driving system by not rating properly. pretty selfish of u not wanting to risk blemeshing ur 4.96 in fear of a retaliatory rating. My rating has been increasing the last few months even though I dish out many 1's, 2's, 3's.


----------



## VegasR

Uberfunitis said:


> They also need to batch tips so that drivers can not rate based on tip.


We use the ratings to communicate to each other if a ride is desirable. It's not (or shouldn't be) some sort of morality hammer. It has no real impact on them anyway.

Unless the pax is utterly atrocious, tipping is the single most important factor in the desirability of the ride. Especially people who make us wait, expect help with luggage, etc. etc.

When you look at the rating, it should tell you, "do I want this pax?" Or, "do I want to drive a little farther for this person than I normally would?"

Otherwise, what's the point?


----------



## Joel Leitson

Allowing the Pax to retaliate is totally ridiculous. From now on they all get 5 stars even if they crap on my breakfast. I only care about my ratings.


----------



## SurgeMasterMN

Joel Leitson said:


> Allowing the Pax to retaliate is totally ridiculous. From now on they all get 5 stars even if they crap on my breakfast. I only care about my ratings.


Exactly


----------



## tohunt4me

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


EVERYBODY LOVES YOU

WHEN YOU BRING PIZZA !

Tipping is great !


----------



## Uberfunitis

VegasR said:


> We use the ratings to communicate to each other if a ride is desirable. It's not (or shouldn't be) some sort of morality hammer. It has no real impact on them anyway.
> 
> Unless the pax is utterly atrocious, tipping is the single most important factor in the desirability of the ride. Especially people who make us wait, expect help with luggage, etc. etc.
> 
> When you look at the rating, it should tell you, "do I want this pax?" Or, "do I want to drive a little farther for this person than I normally would?"
> 
> Otherwise, what's the point?


Your criteria about what makes a good passenger and mine are different. A good passenger to me is one who does not pose a danger to me, my vehicle or other passengers.


----------



## VegasR

Uberfunitis said:


> Your criteria about what makes a good passenger and mine are different. A good passenger to me is one who does not pose a danger to me, my vehicle or other passengers.


OK, so then ratings are pointless for you. Any passenger who poses a danger should be deactivated and possibly arrested. We are writing in to Uber to tell them that this is a dangerous person, not giving them 4 stars.

For the 99% of us who do this to squeeze out a profit, tips are essential and in all but the most extreme cases, the most important thing about a passenger. So we should use that as an important criterion for ratings.


----------



## Uberfunitis

VegasR said:


> OK, so then ratings are pointless for you. Any passenger who poses a danger should be deactivated and possibly arrested. We are writing in to Uber to tell them that this is a dangerous person, not giving them 4 stars.
> 
> For the 99% of us who do this to squeeze out a profit, tips are essential and in all but the most extreme cases, the most important thing about a passenger. So we should use that as an important criterion for ratings.


That would be good if Uber actually deactivated passengers instead they let them puke in your vehicle or spill crap all over it they collect a cleaning fee and pass it along but those people still remain on the platform to mess with other peoples vehicles. I would rather avoid those people along with people who are rude but not necessarily dangerous. I could care less if they tip as far as ratings go.

Not to mention tips while allowed and even provided a method to receive in the app are not expected or required according to Uber. If drivers screw with passengers and make it hard for them to be picked up than Uber will simply remove the ability for drivers to see passenger ratings as is the case in Chicago.


----------



## VegasR

OK. Pukers are also pretty rare. I feel pretty safe in saying less than 1/1,000. Rudeness is more subjective, but it's very uncommon for a pax to offend me at all and, for the most part, I see that as their problem. 

My problem is paying my bills. 

Anyway, can you understand that, even though your primary reason for doing Uber might not be to make money, that is why 99% of us are doing it? Because of that, the main measure of the desirability of a ride is profitability.


----------



## Uberfunitis

VegasR said:


> OK. Pukers are also pretty rare. I feel pretty safe in saying less than 1/1,000. Rudeness is more subjective, but it's very uncommon for a pax to offend me at all and, for the most part, I see that as their problem.
> 
> My problem is paying my bills.
> 
> Anyway, can you understand that, even though your primary reason for doing Uber might not be to make money, that is why 99% of us are doing it? Because of that, the main measure of the desirability of a ride is profitability.


I do it as well to make money as well I just do not rate based on tips and think it screws the entire rating system to the point that it is meaningless with everyone rating based on different criteria.


----------



## VegasR

Uberfunitis said:


> I do it as well to make money as well I just do not rate based on tips and think it screws the entire rating system to the point that it is meaningless with everyone rating based on different criteria.


True. So let's rate on the criteria that matter most.

#1: Is this going to be a profitable ride?

Someone who is a 4.97 should either be clean, quick, efficient, no extras. Or, they pay you for your time and energy.


----------



## Uberfunitis

VegasR said:


> True. So let's rate on the criteria that matter most.
> 
> #1: Is this going to be a profitable ride?
> 
> Someone who is a 4.97 should either be clean, quick, efficient, no extras. Or, they pay you for your time and energy.


Sorry tips is not my #1 criteria actually it does not even come into play when I rate a passenger.


----------



## BbKtKeanu

The ratings don't matter. I'm 4.98 one month then 4.78 the next. Nothing changes. I have two cheap chargers in the back seat and help people with their groceries/bags if they aren't rude but that's it. Be pleasant, non confrontational and the ratings will never really affect you.


----------



## tohunt4me

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


It would be a Nice Place to put 
TIPPING !


----------



## Julescase

Uberfunitis said:


> https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
> When the cash wage and tips are combined they must equal at least the fed min wage.
> 
> Even if they made less and there was no guarantee like there is not for Uber drivers tips are still completely optional by definition.


Wait - So what you said in your first statement is 100% incorrect and waitstaff absolutely do NOT make minimum wage + tips.

Do you understand the HUGE discrepancy between receiving minimum wage hourly and "tips + hourly rate must equal minimum wage" ? That means, say min. wage is $11.00 per hour: A server must earn $ 11 per hour in TIPS + hourly rate, so as long as their tips come out to $8 per hour when all is said and done, they can earn as little as $2 per hour and that is "earning the same as min wage when tips and hourly rate is combined."

Anyway, thank you for the clarification and confirming that my original statement was true. But either way, it's still backing up the fact that ALL drivers, cabbies and rideshare, absolutely SHOULD receive tips since they don't even earn an hourly fee. Not even $2.00 like waitstaff, and in the US, EVERYONE knows enough to always tip their waitstaff (I'd hope for God's sake!) since that is literally how they make money.

So again, thank you for confirming my original comment and providing back-up facts and the link. Much appreciated. 



Uberfunitis said:


> What is the difference between someone who opens you a bottle of beer that you tip and someone who helps you find clothing and checks you out and does not get a tip. Both have per hour pay that is more than likely guaranteed to be about the same but one gets a tip and the other does not?


Again- one makes 2.00 per hour and one makes minimum wage.

Do you live outside of the US? If not, maybe you should.

In the US, there is tipping. That's not changing any time soon. If you do live in the US, I have a feeling you're already known as the cheap, embarrassing friend who sucks at tipping. Or maybe you don't hang out with friends at places where tipping occurs. Or maybe you stay hidden under a rock - that's totally cool and I'm a hermit sometimes too, no judgement here! But I tip well when I go out. I want to make someone's night - I don't want to ruin a hardworking server's night by chincing and cheaping out by holding onto $10 that SHOULD be theirs. What is that $5-$10 going to do for you? Nothing- THAT'S a tip!

Not sure why or how people are so cheap- there's nothing that turns a woman off more that a cheap, tightwad, frugal guy who thinks they should cheat waitstaff, bartenders, cocktail waitresses, valets, uber drivers, cabbies, etc, out of a few bucks. Seriously I have never ever gone out on a second date with a guy who was a tightwad. It's a repulsive trait and a total female boner killer.



Uberfunitis said:


> Your criteria about what makes a good passenger and mine are different. A good passenger to me is one who does not pose a danger to me, my vehicle or other passengers.


What? No, that should be a given; you should never be in danger or feel the pax will put you in danger. That's how you rate your pax? Well, I'd hope for the sake of other drivers in your region that you'd be a little more selective and rate accordingly. Ratings are a way to help others identify whether or not they should accept a ride.


----------



## Uberfunitis

Julescase said:


> Wait - So what you said in your first statement is 100% incorrect and waitstaff absolutely do NOT make minimum wage + tips.
> 
> Do you understand the HUGE discrepancy between receiving minimum wage hourly and "tips + hourly rate must equal minimum wage" ? That means, say min. wage is $11.00 per hour: A server must earn $ 11 per hour in TIPS + hourly rate, so as long as their tips come out to $8 per hour when all is said and done, they can earn as little as $2 per hour and that is "earning the same as min wage when tips and hourly rate is combined."
> 
> Anyway, thank you for the clarification and confirming that my original statement was true. But either way, it's still backing up the fact that ALL drivers, cabbies and rideshare, absolutely SHOULD receive tips since they don't even earn an hourly fee. Not even $2.00 like waitstaff, and in the US, EVERYONE knows enough to always tip their waitstaff (I'd hope for God's sake!) since that is literally how they make money.
> 
> So again, thank you for confirming my original comment and providing back-up facts and the link. Much appreciated.
> 
> Again- one makes 2.00 per hour and one makes minimum wage.
> 
> Do you live outside of the US? If not, maybe you should.
> 
> In the US, there is tipping. That's not changing any time soon. If you do live in the US, I have a feeling you're already known as the cheap, embarrassing friend who sucks at tipping. Or maybe you don't hang out with friends at places where tipping occurs. Or maybe you stay hidden under a rock - that's totally cool and I'm a hermit sometimes too, no judgement here! But I tip well when I go out. I want to make someone's night - I don't want to ruin a hardworking server's night by chincing and cheaping out by holding onto $10 that SHOULD be theirs. What is that $5-$10 going to do for you? Nothing- THAT'S a tip!
> 
> Not sure why or how people are so cheap- there's nothing that turns a woman off more that a cheap, tightwad, frugal guy who thinks they should cheat waitstaff, bartenders, cocktail waitresses, valets, uber drivers, cabbies, etc, out of a few bucks. Seriously I have never ever gone out on a second date with a guy who was a tightwad. It's a repulsive trait and a total female boner killer.
> 
> What? No, that should be a given; you should never be in danger or feel the pax will put you in danger. That's how you rate your pax? Well, I'd hope for the sake of other drivers in your region that you'd be a little more selective and rate accordingly. Ratings are a way to help others identify whether or not they should accept a ride.


No, I have said that servers are guaranteed to make at least the federal minimum wage and that is absolutely true. So again the bartender is not making two dollars an hour. If he or she were to receive no tip at all he would still make the minimum wage as the employer is required to make the difference up. And for the record my wife is more frugal than I am so there really is somebody for each person. Where you get into trouble is putting forth an act that does not reflect your true self and end up attracting someone that does not share your same values whatever they are and than once you are together forever letting your true self come out whatever that is.


----------



## VegasR

I don't know how you can reconcile these statements. 

My primary motivation for driving is profit. 

The purpose of ratings is to communicate how desirable a ride is. 
-----------
The profitability of a ride should not factor into the rating.


----------



## mystic love

Dropking said:


> Again, *get the tip jar*.


What your tip jar looks like? Picture please


----------



## Sueuber

Most of the time I rate pax depending on their destination if I had to drive 5 miles to pick up and pax goes less than 5 miles than its definitely below 5 stars.


----------



## Retired Senior

"SERVICE"... God knows I try, but I can't seem to please these back seat terrorists.
"In a hurry to get to work .... 20 miles away" (The road crews prevented me from getting the PAX before his temper flared.)
"Going to Chipotle to meet with friends for lunch, please hurry."
"Job interview at Trumbull Shopping Park. Don't want to be late!"

And just now I see that "Safety" is my top reported issue and my rating at the moment is 4.63. I feel a great deal of frustration. I have also started to look for a more conventional job as winter approaches. Sweeping the floor and cleaning the bathrooms of the local multiplex cinema for $15 an hour sounds almost attractive right now!

I really can't go back to real estate. I burnt too many bridges in that profession. Plus that concept that "the highest and best use of a parcel of land is the amount of money that you can squeeze out of it" has always sickened me. And we have the social media angle... very big with Real Estate companies these days. But I do not use them.

I may have to Uber-on for another year!


----------



## Johnny Driver

Drivers, it seems, are an expendable commodity passengers are not.


----------



## Kodyhead

Sueuber said:


> Most of the time I rate pax depending on their destination if I had to drive 5 miles to pick up and pax goes less than 5 miles than its definitely below 5 stars.


I sympathize and understand as a driver, but this a dbag reason to downrate a pax, i have done sinilar close things myself but why accept the ride to begin with?


----------



## Uberfunitis

Sueuber said:


> Most of the time I rate pax depending on their destination if I had to drive 5 miles to pick up and pax goes less than 5 miles than its definitely below 5 stars.


How far away from you the passenger is, is not really something that is their fault or something that they have control over. That is on Uber for sending such a request, and on you for accepting something so far away. I always assume that all trips will be min fare and make my determination to accept or not based on that.


----------



## steveK2016

ShinyAndChrome said:


> So to be clear every time I submit a rerate to a pax an uber employee has to manually change that right? What a spectacular waste of resources on their end. I have a bunch more rerates to submit soon.
> 
> The system all but forces us to rate as a five off the bat. The sad thing is if I rerate later another driver may get the rider's wrath if they think he did it. So for all I know some of my sub five are for the same reason.


Occasionally rerating people here and there, they might but I would be willing to bet those drivers that go back every night and change ratings have already been flagged and their request goes into the auto-resolved folder.


----------



## Bpr2

BurgerTiime said:


> You guys are all morons for caring about your ratings.


Only a third of the gif agrees with you.


----------



## Julescase

Uberfunitis said:


> I honestly do not understand the divide where some jobs seem to have tips associated with them and others do not. It does not seem to have a rhyme or reason to me as most are customer service of some kind be that retail or a server to the guy that comes out and sprays my home for termites.
> 
> I would not have taken the first ones and canceled on them as it could have been a mess with added riders along the way that you would have had to cancel having no room.


Again, you're confusing CUSTOMER SERVICE jobs with SERVICE positions. No one tips customer service jobs: Best Buy cashier, Gap cashier, Macy's salesgirl - NO TIP. These positions receive minimum wage (or often more), usually have benefits if full time, etc.

SERVICE jobs are hair stylists, manicurist, cab drivers, waitstaff, bartender, they do NOT make an hourly wage or they make far below minimum wage (which we already confirmed in an earlier comment-) and are often considered
independent contractors, not employees of the place they work (ie hair stylists "rent" a chair from the salon they work in and pay a portion of their earnings to the salon to pay this rent. That's why we tip them - so they can earn a living, since much of their regular earnings is payed out to salon owner).

There is a world of difference, I don't know how many times I can explain it to you before you will understand - maybe I'm not explaining it clearly; try Googling "the difference between customer service positions and service positions." It's quite simple really, and then you'll fully understand why Uber drivers should absolutely expect a tip from every person they give a ride to.

What I cannot explain to you is why so many Uber drivers are so ridiculously cheap and greedy and assholey. That is the 10 million dollar question!!


----------



## Uberfunitis

Julescase said:


> Again, you're confusing CUSTOMER SERVICE jobs with SERVICE positions. No one tips customer service jobs: Best Buy cashier, Gap cashier, Macy's salesgirl - NO TIP. These positions receive minimum wage (or often more), usually have benefits if full time, etc.
> 
> SERVICE jobs are hair stylists, manicurist, cab drivers, waitstaff, bartender, they do NOT make an hourly wage or they make far below minimum wage (which we already confirmed in an earlier comment-) and are often considered
> independent contractors, not employees of the place they work (ie hair stylists "rent" a chair from the salon they work in and pay a portion of their earnings to the salon to pay this rent. That's why we tip them - so they can earn a living, since much of their regular earnings is payed out to salon owner).
> 
> There is a world of difference, I don't know how many times I can explain it to you before you will understand - maybe I'm not explaining it clearly; try Googling "the difference between customer service positions and service positions." It's quite simple really, and then you'll fully understand why Uber drivers should absolutely expect a tip from every person they give a ride to.
> 
> What I cannot explain to you is why so many Uber drivers are so ridiculously cheap and greedy and assholey. That is the 10 million dollar question!!


Both make at least the minimum wage guaranteed and do very similar jobs there is virtually no difference other than a label, and most are employees not IC most IC do not get tips at all.


----------



## PickEmUp

LAbDog65 said:


> Pax are really getting low. They complain to Uber just to get a free or reduced ride. I have a dashcam but I see where they are waiting over a week to complain. I was recently deactivated (since reinstated) about a complaint I know had to be at least a week ago since I hadnt driven for Uber for a week. After not seeing a problem my dashcam has written over.


Simple solution. Buy a few SD cards for your camera and download the files onto a portable hard drive.


----------



## Jesusdrivesuber

Lyft failed me today as well, both companies can kiss my ass.

This is why people like d0n come up with all sorts of crazy scams, hacks and passenger deceptions, you breed people like him because you don't help for shit, keep turning your platforms into abuse city.


----------



## Uber Crack

I'm not sure what's going on but the past two days I've had more five stars than usual. Did something change since this was posted? Or is it just that I rated them 5 stars, they saw and rated five back? #confused


----------



## Agent037

Cableguynoe said:


> Your post doesn't make too much sense to me.
> Most of the time when a driver does get a to b right, he still doesn't get a tip.
> So when a bad driver doesn't get a tip, there's a very good chance he wasn't getting one regardless of how good he was.
> I don't do a good job for tips. If I get one great. But it's not about the tips.
> 
> Down rating isn't only about tipping. I've given a 1 star to someone that tipped me $5.
> I thanked them and hit one star as they were exciting vehicle.


Really?...


----------



## Cableguynoe

Agent037 said:


> Really?...


Yup


----------



## Agent037

Julescase said:


> Tipping in the USA is standard on any service that was satisfactory; for those saying they drive for the pure pleasure of it (lol) and they feel warm and fuzzy inside from 5-stars and a "Great Conversation!" Badge, I call BULLSHIT. We live in a tipping culture, period. I always tipped when taking taxis - a $20 tip on the $65 ride to the airport that I've taken for 18 years while living in LA. Taxis were always grimy, the ride was treacherous, cabbie often rude, music hideous, smell offensive, BUT IF YOU ARE A DECENT HUMAN BEING, YOU TIP, FFS! They're driving a cab - tips are how they get by. That is how people with service jobs EARN THEIR MONEY. We all know cabbies don't get to keep their full fare, hairstylist don't keep the full cost of what you pay to get your hair done, wait staff make next to nothing per hour and tips are their earnings, and rideshare drivers give half of the fare to their boss:Uber or Lyft. Millennials these days are absolutely clueless and rude and for some reason, rarely tip. Their parents have failed big time. Created monsters. I can't wait until those people have service positions, I will never tip a millennial - ever - in any aspect of my life ever again.
> 
> I can't imagine what some of my idiot pax are thinking by not tipping. I provide a safe, friendly, clean, STELLAR service by driving them from Point A to Point B. I know my city backwards and forwards. I start every ride with a smile and a nice hello, I'm quiet if pax doesn't seem to want to chat, but I'll have a great conversation with pax if they're into it. I go above and beyond, (I'm not just saying that-many of my pax have left comments about the fact that I go above and beyond). I'll take the route they want me to take if they have a preferred route, I'm never rude, I try to help and make suggestions if they're tourists, and I go into EVERY ride assuming the pax will tip, since I can't do anything else beyond what I'm already doing. My car always smells delicious and I've had hundreds of pax tell me that.
> 
> The worst, rudest, most obnoxious pax are absolutely 100% the atrocious millennial 22-32 year old guys. Cocky, obnoxious, intolerable. Half The time these ding dongs tell me they'll tip me well in the app, and they literally NEVER ever do. Why the &%[email protected]!* do you say it if you have no intention of doing it? I literally cringe when I realize pax is a millennial guy. Horrendous pax - the worst. I really wish that we could see a passenger's age when we get a ping, I would love to have that information prior to accepting any ride. I'd pass on ALL 22-32 year olds - men & women.
> 
> Best, most considerate pax: women ages 40-60. I'd say 80% of this group tips. They have manners and know how to treat people with respect. Etiquette is not a mysterious, unknown land of confusion to these gals. I love when I drive up and see a woman around this age as my pax.
> 
> Next best: 40-60 year old men and ANYONE over 65.
> 
> Then there are all sorts of "will they or won't they?" folks, you never know for sure with them.
> 
> The fact that tips aren't an automatic thing from everyone, assuming their ride was satisfactory, is simply baffling to me. Uber has &%[email protected]!*ed this up and erroneously implied tips were either not necessary or already included. Both are untrue as we now know. Tipping should be a standard automatic thing unless something egregious occurs, ie: rude driver or disgusting car. Beyond that, if your ride is satisfactory, YOU SHOULD TIP YOUR DRIVER FOR GOD'S SAKE. Have some self respect and manners and tip your driver who safely navigates the dangerous streets and gets you to your destination in one piece. I hate pax who come up with excuses. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to Uber - take the GD bus. Just like if you can't afford to tip on your meal when you eat out, you shouldn't eat out. Tipping should be factored into your ride - think of it as part of the transaction when you use Lyft/Uber - since it's a fact of life and we live at a tipping culture. If you don't like living in a tipping culture, move to Italy.
> 
> And anyone who doesn't tip me gets 1-star. I do this to help my fellow drivers and I hope they do the same for me. When I see a low rated pax, I'm not going to accept their request because I assume that they are a non-tipper and/or an asshole. The rating system is the *only* way drivers can help one another and warn each other about crappy, cheap, annoying pax.
> 
> If pax want better ratings, it's simple: be decent human beings and tip your freaking drivers. That's it. That's all it takes - you just need to do what everyone should have been doing all along and tip your driver for the [ridiculously dirt cheap] service provided to you.
> 
> The End
> 
> PS: don't even get me started on the asshole pax who gives shitty ratings just to be assholes.
> 
> But I *want* to know which passengers tipped me and which ones didn't. I give five stars to the people who tip like decent human beings should, and one stars to assholes that don't tip because they're cheap or have no manners or because their parents failed to teach them etiquette and basic human decency.
> 
> Why shouldn't drivers rate based on whether or not people tip them? What the hell else are they going to rate the passengers on? Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.


I totally agree with YOU. And í always 1 starred uberpoops, but something got me wondering the other day,.. If you or í 1 star these cheap a holes.. How can we get matched with them ever again if supposedly the system wont driver and passenger with 1 star rating?


----------



## Lolinator

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


Millennials are the future

I will rate you low too


----------



## Jesusdrivesuber

Lolinator said:


> Millennials are the future
> 
> I will rate you low too


Millennials will all starve to death or move out of here once power moves from boomers to Generation X, once X stops ruling this country, it goes from being number 1 to number 10 under millennial intelligence and ignorant rule.


----------



## Pumpkin70

I had a rider yesterday that was very nasty....I navigated to the address via the app and when the person comes out she states I'm at the wrong address....started the trip while driving she says you were supposed to turn right here and I say that's fine but you have to tell me before I get to the street not after I pass it bc I'm following the direction of the navigation...once I got that piece of crap out of my car I 1 starred her then of course she got her revenge by 1 starring me and got me a navigation report and a safety report...it seems the rider has more power than the driver...


----------



## NoPooPool

Pumpkin70 said:


> I had a rider yesterday that was very nasty....I navigated to the address via the app and when the person comes out she states I'm at the wrong address....started the trip while driving she says you were supposed to turn right here and I say that's fine but you have to tell me before I get to the street not after I pass it bc I'm following the direction of the navigation...once I got that piece of crap out of my car I 1 starred her then of course she got her revenge by 1 starring me and got me a navigation report and a safety report...it seems the rider has more power than the driver...


Wait, Pool ride or an X paxhole?


----------



## d0n

Lol, you are an instigator.

There you go again riling up the people to revolt against Uber because they ****ed you.

Just do what I told you next time and you will be fine on rates.


----------



## sellkatsell44

Julescase said:


> Again, you're confusing CUSTOMER SERVICE jobs with SERVICE positions. No one tips customer service jobs: Best Buy cashier, Gap cashier, Macy's salesgirl - NO TIP. These positions receive minimum wage (or often more), usually have benefits if full time, etc.
> 
> SERVICE jobs are hair stylists, manicurist, cab drivers, waitstaff, bartender, they do NOT make an hourly wage or they make far below minimum wage (which we already confirmed in an earlier comment-) and are often considered
> independent contractors, not employees of the place they work (ie hair stylists "rent" a chair from the salon they work in and pay a portion of their earnings to the salon to pay this rent. That's why we tip them - so they can earn a living, since much of their regular earnings is payed out to salon owner).
> 
> There is a world of difference, I don't know how many times I can explain it to you before you will understand - maybe I'm not explaining it clearly; try Googling "the difference between customer service positions and service positions." It's quite simple really, and then you'll fully understand why Uber drivers should absolutely expect a tip from every person they give a ride to.
> 
> What I cannot explain to you is why so many Uber drivers are so ridiculously cheap and greedy and assholey. That is the 10 million dollar question!!


Omg really?

I've just explained to you that service jobs aka waitressing (waitstaff in your words) or bartending (who doesn't have to pay for their station) gets paid the same minimum wage as a worker for retail like gap.

And, you may not tip those "customer service" workers but the appreciative customers would bring us food, the Japanese tourists would attempt to tip $10, and my favorite customers always tried to "gift" me bags.

We're not in the 1980s, 1990s. Those who do rent stations are IC like you, but if you're talking about the most common service jobs aka waitstaff, they no longer get less then "customer service" positions. I don't care how much googling you do, I googled what a waitress gets in the 2010-era..they get minimum wage of $9-$11 dollars and pull tips to get anywhere between $21-31 or more.

Basically I get it if you're an IC and you feel you don't get enough traffic to hustle up the same amount of minimum wage as someone who is a waitress earning minimum + tips or a retail associate earning only the minimum that the waitress earns...

_But to say that retail folks shouldn't get tips just because they're labeled as "retail" to me is silly. And how do you figure a cafe chain where the counter is basically self serve deserves tips versus a fast food chain gets no tip but is also self serve? Because the cafe chain happens to be Starbucks and the fast food chain happens to be McDonald's? I'm only going off your previous posts and given that, I'm pretty sure folks look at taxis like they do Starbucks and Uber like they do McDonald's and ain't that a shame._


----------



## ubergirl182

sellkatsell44 said:


> Omg really?
> 
> I've just explained to you that service jobs aka waitressing (waitstaff in your words) or bartending (who doesn't have to pay for their station) gets paid the same minimum wage as a worker for retail like gap.
> 
> And, you may not tip those "customer service" workers but the appreciative customers would bring us food, the Japanese tourists would attempt to tip $10, and my favorite customers always tried to "gift" me bags.
> 
> We're not in the 1980s, 1990s. Those who do rent stations are IC like you, but if you're talking about the most common service jobs aka waitstaff, they no longer get less then "customer service" positions. I don't care how much googling you do, I googled what a waitress gets in the 2010-era..they get minimum wage of $9-$11 dollars and pull tips to get anywhere between $21-31 or more.
> 
> Basically I get it if you're an IC and you feel you don't get enough traffic to hustle up the same amount of minimum wage as someone who is a waitress earning minimum + tips or a retail associate earning only the minimum that the waitress earns...
> 
> _But to say that retail folks shouldn't get tips just because they're labeled as "retail" to me is silly. And how do you figure a cafe chain where the counter is basically self serve deserves tips versus a fast food chain gets no tip but is also self serve? Because the cafe chain happens to be Starbucks and the fast food chain happens to be McDonald's? I'm only going off your previous posts and given that, I'm pretty sure folks look at taxis like they do Starbucks and Uber like they do McDonald's and ain't that a shame._


in some states yes they get at least minimum wage but in many of the middle states they get paid like enough to just cover taxes and survive on tips.


----------



## DJWolford

if you're going to 1 star people -- you deserve it.

******


----------



## Uberfunitis

ubergirl182 said:


> in some states yes they get at least minimum wage but in many of the middle states they get paid like enough to just cover taxes and survive on tips.


Not true, in every state in the US, servers are guaranteed to get at least the federal minimum wage if not more depending on your state.


----------



## OoberrVegas

Cableguynoe said:


> Why wouldn't a driver be allowed to rate based on what he values and is important to him?


I agree if I pick up a pax at a store or do mulitiple stop for a 7minute line or pool and don't get tipped you're getting the auto one star, btw I really hate the multi stop option on lyft.

I had one where they went to McDonald's s across the street I waited 20 minutes for a min fare.

I emailed support and lost my ish telling them I will reject all two stops and explain lyft doesn't pay for the time, they actually applied $15 to my account.


----------



## Strange Fruit

Julescase said:


> I will never tip a millennial - ever - in any aspect of my life ever again.


Cuz they're all the same. #bigotry
Non millenials don't tip me most of the time either. Most people tip because they were told they're supposed to and had it reinforced throughout their life. Most don't actually think about it. That's human nature, and the way cultural norms are propagated. I tipped waiters, I never knew it was to supplement their income. I thought it was odd, and the percentage rule nonsensical. People were told there is no need to tip on Uber tho. In 2014 there was more hesitation, and people tentatively giving a tip, asking if it was ok to give one, and that kind of thing. Then they got used to the new cultural norm in the Uber trade. Younger people, who happened to be called millennials now, hadn't had the years for the older cultural practice to set in, so they were more flexible to a new system. I often profess my dislike of the way humans are, but it's widely known they are that way, not just millenials. Uber told them they didn't need to tip. Since they didn't know otherwise, they went along with it. Most people don't like tipping, especially cuz of all the ambiguity, and one of the main concerns peple voice is "I don't know how much I'm supposed to give". They usually sound like they're more concerned with doing what they're supposed to do rather than if they're helping the waiter make a living. They'd rather the business that pays the people for the labor they profit from, pay the labor decently, since people are paying the business and the business provides the serving labor. Tipping began as a way for employers to not pay as much, I think, during prohibition when many places lost a lot of that alcohol revenue. Most people don't think about why they do many of the culturally normal things they do. They follow cultural practice. Otherwise, why would you pay so much more to supplement the waiter at the fancy place that cost 4xs as much as the other one that doesn't? It's not more trouble to bring out the fancy food. Ur just following an arbitrary percentage rule that people told you was the right thing to do (maybe slightly less work when they serve those 5 bites stylishly laid out on a fancy plate dishes, versus a hearty portion at a low class place that weights a little more, a little bit).

I've had like 50 white females be rude to me in my life time. White females, every one of em, deserve our disrespect.

"the youth today!"

"yes yes, I know, but it's true this time."

How do you know if they're a millenial? What age is the cutoff? Born after Jan1 1984? It varies depending on where you read, back to at least 1980. (dang, they're in their mid 30s now). When does it end and become the next generation to be derided by geezers? So if it's Jan 1 1984 to whenever, then are Decemberites from '83 suddenly a different way of being from the millenials (is that GenX, idk)? How is the switch that sets the generations' behavior switched? Are all you just like everybody in yr generation when it comes to financial generosity? It's a mystery to me how this works.

Exceptional millenial:








and the kid who sang "if you seek wisdom in Katy Perry lyrics, then kill yrself" ends up with Katy Perry announcing him from the piano at a Youtube event where he sings a song that isn't all that flattering to Youtube. I love this guy:


----------



## Julescase

Strange Fruit said:


> Cuz they're all the same. #bigotry
> Non millenials don't tip me most of the time either. Most people tip because they were told they're supposed to and had it reinforced throughout their life. Most don't actually think about it. That's human nature, and the way cultural norms are propagated. I tipped waiters, I never knew it was to supplement their income. I thought it was odd, and the percentage rule nonsensical. People were told there is no need to tip on Uber tho. In 2014 there was more hesitation, and people tentatively giving a tip, asking if it was ok to give one, and that kind of thing. Then they got used to the new cultural norm in the Uber trade. Younger people, who happened to be called millennials now, hadn't had the years for the older cultural practice to set in, so they were more flexible to a new system. I often profess my dislike of the way humans are, but it's widely known they are that way, not just millenials. Uber told them they didn't need to tip. Since they didn't know otherwise, they went along with it. Most people don't like tipping, especially cuz of all the ambiguity, and one of the main concerns peple voice is "I don't know how much I'm supposed to give". They usually sound like they're more concerned with doing what they're supposed to do rather than if they're helping the waiter make a living. They'd rather the business that pays the people for the labor they profit from, pay the labor decently, since people are paying the business and the business provides the serving labor. Tipping began as a way for employers to not pay as much, I think, during prohibition when many places lost a lot of that alcohol revenue. Most people don't think about why they do many of the culturally normal things they do. They follow cultural practice. Otherwise, why would you pay so much more to supplement the waiter at the fancy place that cost 4xs as much as the other one that doesn't? It's not more trouble to bring out the fancy food. Ur just following an arbitrary percentage rule that people told you was the right thing to do (maybe slightly less work when they serve those 5 bites stylishly laid out on a fancy plate dishes, versus a hearty portion at a low class place that weights a little more, a little bit).
> 
> I've had like 50 white females be rude to me in my life time. White females, every one of em, deserve our disrespect.
> 
> "the youth today!"
> 
> "yes yes, I know, but it's true this time."
> 
> How do you know if they're a millenial? What age is the cutoff? Born after Jan1 1984? It varies depending on where you read, back to at least 1980. (dang, they're in their mid 30s now). When does it end and become the next generation to be derided by geezers? So if it's Jan 1 1984 to whenever, then are Decemberites from '83 suddenly a different way of being from the millenials (is that GenX, idk)? How is the switch that sets the generations' behavior switched? Are all you just like everybody in yr generation when it comes to financial generosity? It's a mystery to me how this works.
> 
> Exceptional millenial:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the kid who sang "if you seek wisdom in Katy Perry lyrics, then kill yrself" ends up with Katy Perry announcing him from the piano at a Youtube event where he sings a song that isn't all that flattering to Youtube. I love this guy:


----------



## Julescase

Strange Fruit said:


> Cuz they're all the same. #bigotry
> Non millenials don't tip me most of the time either. Most people tip because they were told they're supposed to and had it reinforced throughout their life. Most don't actually think about it. That's human nature, and the way cultural norms are propagated. I tipped waiters, I never knew it was to supplement their income. I thought it was odd, and the percentage rule nonsensical. People were told there is no need to tip on Uber tho. In 2014 there was more hesitation, and people tentatively giving a tip, asking if it was ok to give one, and that kind of thing. Then they got used to the new cultural norm in the Uber trade. Younger people, who happened to be called millennials now, hadn't had the years for the older cultural practice to set in, so they were more flexible to a new system. I often profess my dislike of the way humans are, but it's widely known they are that way, not just millenials. Uber told them they didn't need to tip. Since they didn't know otherwise, they went along with it. Most people don't like tipping, especially cuz of all the ambiguity, and one of the main concerns peple voice is "I don't know how much I'm supposed to give". They usually sound like they're more concerned with doing what they're supposed to do rather than if they're helping the waiter make a living. They'd rather the business that pays the people for the labor they profit from, pay the labor decently, since people are paying the business and the business provides the serving labor. Tipping began as a way for employers to not pay as much, I think, during prohibition when many places lost a lot of that alcohol revenue. Most people don't think about why they do many of the culturally normal things they do. They follow cultural practice. Otherwise, why would you pay so much more to supplement the waiter at the fancy place that cost 4xs as much as the other one that doesn't? It's not more trouble to bring out the fancy food. Ur just following an arbitrary percentage rule that people told you was the right thing to do (maybe slightly less work when they serve those 5 bites stylishly laid out on a fancy plate dishes, versus a hearty portion at a low class place that weights a little more, a little bit).
> 
> I've had like 50 white females be rude to me in my life time. White females, every one of em, deserve our disrespect.
> 
> "the youth today!"
> 
> "yes yes, I know, but it's true this time."
> 
> How do you know if they're a millenial? What age is the cutoff? Born after Jan1 1984? It varies depending on where you read, back to at least 1980. (dang, they're in their mid 30s now). When does it end and become the next generation to be derided by geezers? So if it's Jan 1 1984 to whenever, then are Decemberites from '83 suddenly a different way of being from the millenials (is that GenX, idk)? How is the switch that sets the generations' behavior switched? Are all you just like everybody in yr generation when it comes to financial generosity? It's a mystery to me how this works.
> 
> Exceptional millenial:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the kid who sang "if you seek wisdom in Katy Perry lyrics, then kill yrself" ends up with Katy Perry announcing him from the piano at a Youtube event where he sings a song that isn't all that flattering to Youtube. I love this guy:


I only got one sentence in and the sheer ignorance forced me to stop.

The fact that you think that you are "supplementing" wait staff's income shows me how uneducated you are on tipping; wait staff doesn't have any other income for you to supplement, their tips are literally how they make money. Why do you think they are waiting on you and serving you? For the pleasure of serving people and sweating and coming home smelling like a grease pit? No, if they don't receive at least 18% tips, which is standard in the United States, they have to pay taxes out of their own pocket taxes based on 18% of what the total amount food they sell at their tables, so if you don't pay them at least 18% in tips, then they are literally paying out of their pocket for the pleasure of waiting on you. Wait staff need to pay taxes based on their tips, and it's calculated based on 18% of the food total that they sell, which is why they say to tip at least 18%, so waitstaff don't actually have to pay for the fun of serving you food and taking your orders.


----------



## sellkatsell44

Julescase said:


> *I only got one sentence in and the sheer ignorance forced me to stop.*
> 
> The fact that you think that you are "supplementing" wait staff's income shows me how uneducated you are on tipping; wait staff doesn't have any other income for you to supplement, their tips are literally how they make money. Why do you think they are waiting on you and serving you? For the pleasure of serving people and sweating and coming home smelling like a grease pit? No, if they don't receive at least 18% tips, which is standard in the United States, they have to pay taxes out of their own pocket taxes based on 18% of what the total amount food they sell at their tables, so if you don't pay them at least 18% in tips, then they are literally paying out of their pocket for the pleasure of waiting on you. Wait staff need to pay taxes based on their tips, and it's calculated based on 18% of the food total that they sell, which is why they say to tip at least 18%, so waitstaff don't actually have to pay for the fun of serving you food and taking your orders.


LMAO

Strange Fruit, Julescase and I are all from the same state. Julescase has been going on and on about this waitress not making the same as other workers because of "tips" yet...she doesn't bother to get to know how service folks like waiters/waitresses are paid in her home state:










As for the taxes of 18% on tips regardless...it's already been proven (unlike her claims) that waiters and waitresses in California as well as a good chunk of States in US, do not get the lower 2.13/hr wage (as this is dated thinking as I previously mentioned) and therefore the tips aren't used as a supplement until they make the standard minimum _because they already make the minimum. _The government also doesn't expect everyone to tip so there's no taxing on anything other then tips that are recorded. Everyone knows waiters and waitresses can pocket cash tips every now and then like any other IC that gets tipped. Bonuses paid out to other minimum wage workers? Automatically taxed. Prizes won for hard work? Also taxed. Why shouldn't tips be taxed as well. That's tips that are reported anyways...


----------



## Uberfunitis

Julescase said:


> I only got one sentence in and the sheer ignorance forced me to stop.
> 
> The fact that you think that you are "supplementing" wait staff's income shows me how uneducated you are on tipping; wait staff doesn't have any other income for you to supplement, their tips are literally how they make money. Why do you think they are waiting on you and serving you? For the pleasure of serving people and sweating and coming home smelling like a grease pit? No, if they don't receive at least 18% tips, which is standard in the United States, they have to pay taxes out of their own pocket taxes based on 18% of what the total amount food they sell at their tables, so if you don't pay them at least 18% in tips, then they are literally paying out of their pocket for the pleasure of waiting on you. Wait staff need to pay taxes based on their tips, and it's calculated based on 18% of the food total that they sell, which is why they say to tip at least 18%, so waitstaff don't actually have to pay for the fun of serving you food and taking your orders.


again you are absolutely wrong. The fact that you worked as a server in the past and are so wrong is mind boggling. The IRS allows you to disregard the allocated tips if you keep a record of your daily tips that you can use to prove what you actually were tipped. This is not new stuff this was federal law way back when I was a server in the 90's


----------



## melusine3

Rsabcd said:


> This doesn't answer the question he ask You?
> 
> Why shouldn't we be able to separate the more profitable riders via ratings. I drive to make money, i want to know which jobs are going to be more profitable.
> 
> I'm not driving 10 minutes to pick up Mr. 4.69☆ I probably would if he was 4.96
> 
> Why is this even a discussion, you are in the minority when it comes to drivers and your veiws towards tipping.


I received a Lyft request to an address I recognized as one I'd driven many times. Always minimum rides and never a tip. So, this 5 mile drive they wanted me to take? After I drove a mile, thinking about this particular passenger, I cancelled and turned the app off. My point is, my habit of always rating everyone 5 stars no matter what is not helping anyone but the passenger. Maybe if she had a few one stars, she'd wonder about her rating and up her game.



ShinyAndChrome said:


> I need to try this on the guys in their early 20's who love to give sub-5 for fun. Just to remind them that yeah you have a rating, too. True. I wonder if I have suffered that. We all potentially have.
> 
> The rating system is outstandingly badly designed.


Pretty simple, when you roll up on the early 20's guys, cancel and scoot away!



Julescase said:


> Tipping in the USA is standard on any service that was satisfactory; for those saying they drive for the pure pleasure of it (lol) and they feel warm and fuzzy inside from 5-stars and a "Great Conversation!" Badge, I call BULLSHIT. We live in a tipping culture, period. I always tipped when taking taxis - a $20 tip on the $65 ride to the airport that I've taken for 18 years while living in LA. Taxis were always grimy, the ride was treacherous, cabbie often rude, music hideous, smell offensive, BUT IF YOU ARE A DECENT HUMAN BEING, YOU TIP, FFS! They're driving a cab - tips are how they get by. That is how people with service jobs EARN THEIR MONEY. We all know cabbies don't get to keep their full fare, hairstylist don't keep the full cost of what you pay to get your hair done, wait staff make next to nothing per hour and tips are their earnings, and rideshare drivers give half of the fare to their boss:Uber or Lyft. Millennials these days are absolutely clueless and rude and for some reason, rarely tip. Their parents have failed big time. Created monsters. I can't wait until those people have service positions, I will never tip a millennial - ever - in any aspect of my life ever again.
> 
> I can't imagine what some of my idiot pax are thinking by not tipping. I provide a safe, friendly, clean, STELLAR service by driving them from Point A to Point B. I know my city backwards and forwards. I start every ride with a smile and a nice hello, I'm quiet if pax doesn't seem to want to chat, but I'll have a great conversation with pax if they're into it. I go above and beyond, (I'm not just saying that-many of my pax have left comments about the fact that I go above and beyond). I'll take the route they want me to take if they have a preferred route, I'm never rude, I try to help and make suggestions if they're tourists, and I go into EVERY ride assuming the pax will tip, since I can't do anything else beyond what I'm already doing. My car always smells delicious and I've had hundreds of pax tell me that.
> 
> The worst, rudest, most obnoxious pax are absolutely 100% the atrocious millennial 22-32 year old guys. Cocky, obnoxious, intolerable. Half The time these ding dongs tell me they'll tip me well in the app, and they literally NEVER ever do. Why the &%[email protected]!* do you say it if you have no intention of doing it? I literally cringe when I realize pax is a millennial guy. Horrendous pax - the worst. I really wish that we could see a passenger's age when we get a ping, I would love to have that information prior to accepting any ride. I'd pass on ALL 22-32 year olds - men & women.
> 
> Best, most considerate pax: women ages 40-60. I'd say 80% of this group tips. They have manners and know how to treat people with respect. Etiquette is not a mysterious, unknown land of confusion to these gals. I love when I drive up and see a woman around this age as my pax.
> 
> Next best: 40-60 year old men and ANYONE over 65.
> 
> Then there are all sorts of "will they or won't they?" folks, you never know for sure with them.
> 
> The fact that tips aren't an automatic thing from everyone, assuming their ride was satisfactory, is simply baffling to me. Uber has &%[email protected]!*ed this up and erroneously implied tips were either not necessary or already included. Both are untrue as we now know. Tipping should be a standard automatic thing unless something egregious occurs, ie: rude driver or disgusting car. Beyond that, if your ride is satisfactory, YOU SHOULD TIP YOUR DRIVER FOR GOD'S SAKE. Have some self respect and manners and tip your driver who safely navigates the dangerous streets and gets you to your destination in one piece. I hate pax who come up with excuses. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to Uber - take the GD bus. Just like if you can't afford to tip on your meal when you eat out, you shouldn't eat out. Tipping should be factored into your ride - think of it as part of the transaction when you use Lyft/Uber - since it's a fact of life and we live at a tipping culture. If you don't like living in a tipping culture, move to Italy.
> 
> And anyone who doesn't tip me gets 1-star. I do this to help my fellow drivers and I hope they do the same for me. When I see a low rated pax, I'm not going to accept their request because I assume that they are a non-tipper and/or an asshole. The rating system is the *only* way drivers can help one another and warn each other about crappy, cheap, annoying pax.
> 
> If pax want better ratings, it's simple: be decent human beings and tip your freaking drivers. That's it. That's all it takes - you just need to do what everyone should have been doing all along and tip your driver for the [ridiculously dirt cheap] service provided to you.
> 
> The End
> 
> PS: don't even get me started on the asshole pax who gives shitty ratings just to be assholes.
> 
> But I *want* to know which passengers tipped me and which ones didn't. I give five stars to the people who tip like decent human beings should, and one stars to assholes that don't tip because they're cheap or have no manners or because their parents failed to teach them etiquette and basic human decency.
> 
> Why shouldn't drivers rate based on whether or not people tip them? What the hell else are they going to rate the passengers on? Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.


Most passengers are under the delusion/illusion that we make up to $1,500 per week and the main stream media does very little to dispel that lie. They're too far up Uber's @$$ to actually do investigative journalism. So, they think we're making bank and don't need tips and it doesn't help when other drivers are boasting about making thousands per week when they really aren't. I've found that the worst tippers are servers! lol



Julescase said:


> Do you understand what "service jobs" are? They're jobs where the person providing a service usually doesn't make an hourly fee (Rideshare drivers, waitstaff, hairstylists, cab drivers, etc) and they provide a service (driving around and getting people from Point A to Point B, serving people food/drinks, cutting and coloring hair, etc)
> 
> In this country, it's standard practice and considered common courtesy to tip those in service positions. How there is any debate from people on this site on the issue is baffling. Any adult with a shred of human decency and some basic etiquette knowledge knows to tip their drivers. My hairstylist expects a tip, cab drivers expect a tip, Hotel cleaning staff expect a tip, waitstaff expect a tip, and Uber/Lyft drivers SHOULD expect a tip. Uber erroneously implied tips were included and/ or unnecessary for their drivers, and that never should have been the case.
> 
> We need to educate those who use Uber to make it clear tipping should be the norm, period. Some people know this fact already but some people like you, millennials (let me guess- you're between the ages of 22-34?), cheapskates, ignoramuses, and clueless folks still, for some reason, insist on insulting riders providing the service of driving your asses around for dirt cheap prices by not tipping and thinking it's ok. It's not, and I'm going to 1-star everyone who doesn't tip so at least OTHER drivers are forewarned. And I really hope other drivers do the same for me.
> 
> I'm still baffled by your statement- who is saying "tipping is not required" ? No one is saying that. And the SERVICE is the ridiculously inexpensive ride. Which part are you getting confused about here? It's like there's a disconnect and I'm not sure where your thinking comes from.


Uber actually had that statement on it's website for it's passengers.


----------



## wst1459

I notice my rating drops after driving drunk college kids all night that want me to take more than 4 and bring booze in my car and I say No. My ratings go up when Im driving sober adults in the day.


----------



## david90292

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.





Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Ever since you morons decided to put the pax rating in a more visible place, all of these pieces of shit millennial kids revenge rate faster than before, my rate has been on a dip ever since the changes and has gone down 0.03 already.
> 
> My last .01 loss was a ****** that was:
> 
> Drunk from the airport.
> 4.65 (what a surprise).
> Decided to tell me to take a highway clogged all the way, request I ignored.
> Laid on my sit as it were a bed with his feet on my sit, shoes on.
> 
> Gave him a 1 star and voila, dropped .01 on the spot.
> 
> Can't you morons simply reflect their new rate AFTER they rate the driver? Also, if they stack 2 unrated trips by taking another trip, GET RID OF THE OLD TRIP's rating window.
> 
> Kudos on &%[email protected]!*ing allowing pax to have the same ability as us to re-rate after placing their first rate, I am sure that will make their revenge rating even easier.
> 
> Why is there such little thought put into these company's app design? At least complaining about these sort of scenarios to Lyft instantly allows the CSR to change the rating, Uber CSR throws a canned response and pat you on the back.
> 
> Btw the whole "ratings do not reflect instantly" thing is bullshit at the highest level.


My first post. I have been using ride sharing since inception and following this blog for years. When I got out of the car with my family today, the driver leaned over with his hand out. I told him I would tip him in the app. True to my word, I tipped him my usual 20% in the app. He apparently didn't believe me because my rating dropped from a 4.97 to a 4.96. I had not used the service in two weeks and I follow my rating after every trip. I went back in and changed him from 5 stars to 1 star. Too bad you can't take the tip back. To those of you who don't believe passengers will tip when they say they will, I would encourage you to not give them a poor rating on the assumption they aren't being honest. Obviously I wasn't happy.


----------



## Tryzub Gorinich

I'm good at remembering pax just by looking at the pick up location and map route. I also photo capture waybills. When they behave like imbeciles and don't tip, I just go back a week later and change their rating. I started doing this the moment I read about the easily accessible pax rating feature. College kids usually get the worst ratings, they're obnoxious and often try to overload my car and try to bring booze into into it. I just 3 star them instead of 1 starring, unless I had to end the trip early.


----------



## Jesusdrivesuber

david90292 said:


> My first post. I have been using ride sharing since inception and following this blog for years. When I got out of the car with my family today, the driver leaned over with his hand out. I told him I would tip him in the app. True to my word, I tipped him my usual 20% in the app. He apparently didn't believe me because my rating dropped from a 4.97 to a 4.96. I had not used the service in two weeks and I follow my rating after every trip. I went back in and changed him from 5 stars to 1 star. Too bad you can't take the tip back. To those of you who don't believe passengers will tip when they say they will, I would encourage you to not give them a poor rating on the assumption they aren't being honest. Obviously I wasn't happy.


This has nothing to do with low rating pax who don't tip, the vast majority of such pax do not even notice the changes, this is related to how uber allows kids to get away with shit and be able to down rate, that plus the multiple options/tools they are given and the moronic design on their app's rating system.

The point of this post is to make everyone aware that uber designs this app like a monkey flings poo.


----------



## Michael1230nj

Uber must love this Keep talking about Ratings and working for Peanuts.


----------



## SadUber

wst1459 said:


> I notice my rating drops after driving drunk college kids all night that want me to take more than 4 and bring booze in my car and I say No. My ratings go up when Im driving sober adults in the day.


That's why always say yes!


----------



## Michael1230nj

I have come to accept that Tips are just not going to account for a Reasonable percentage of my weekly gross. It's Uber and that's the way it's going to be But I have two pet peeves in regard to Tipping #1. When you extend yourself and press to get a Passenger to a Flight or an Appointment that they are running late for. #2. And this one I truly find Bewildering I have had 4 passengers that have told me they Drive for Uber our conversation would lead me to believe they were telling the truth Not one has Tipped!!! What Planet Do These Guys Live On!!


----------



## jlong105

I love it when you get a random pax rating at 2 pm on Sunday and you haven't driven for 10 hours or so. I find it hard to believe that the drunks I take home Saturday night, remember the drive well enough to give an accurate rating. Not to mention that many of these riders will take 4-5 uber rides throughout the night and one negative ride could lead to all negative ratings. I think there should be a 1/2 hour limit on rating the drivers.


----------



## Uberfunitis

Michael1230nj said:


> I have come to accept that Tips are just not going to account for a Reasonable percentage of my weekly gross. It's Uber and that's the way it's going to be But I have two pet peeves in regard to Tipping #1. When you extend yourself and press to get a Passenger to a Flight or an Appointment that they are running late for. #2. And this one I truly find Bewildering I have had 4 passengers that have told me they Drive for Uber our conversation would lead me to believe they were telling the truth Not one has Tipped!!! What Planet Do These Guys Live On!!


One hardly ever gets a tip as a driver why would that driver tip others when driving it makes no sense. It is not like that tip is going to cause some cascade of tipping to happen that will change the world. He will have just unnecessary getting rid of a few dollars that could have been used for something else.


----------



## Michael1230nj

I rest my case


----------



## Retired Senior

Julescase said:


> I only got one sentence in and the sheer ignorance forced me to stop.
> 
> The fact that you think that you are "supplementing" wait staff's income shows me how uneducated you are on tipping; wait staff doesn't have any other income for you to supplement, their tips are literally how they make money. Why do you think they are waiting on you and serving you? For the pleasure of serving people and sweating and coming home smelling like a grease pit? No, if they don't receive at least 18% tips, which is standard in the United States, they have to pay taxes out of their own pocket taxes based on 18% of what the total amount food they sell at their tables, so if you don't pay them at least 18% in tips, then they are literally paying out of their pocket for the pleasure of waiting on you. Wait staff need to pay taxes based on their tips, and it's calculated based on 18% of the food total that they sell, which is why they say to tip at least 18%, so waitstaff don't actually have to pay for the fun of serving you food and taking your orders.


That is essentially why I learned to shop for groceries and to cook my own meals. I don't need a "middle man" (the wait staff) coming between me and my food. I don't need to worry about my food being adulterated or tainted in any way by an angry waiter. Other than dashing into a fast food joint or Dunkin Donuts I have not set foot into a restaurant since the 1980s. (About when I stopped going to weddings too. Didn't see the point when so many end up in divorce in 5 years or so...) Waiters will soon be made redundant by robotic servers. One of my younger brothers has been a "professional" waiter for the past 45 years. It destroyed him as a person. He is a simmering bomb ready to explode.

If the tips were the reason I drove for Uber I never would have considered taking the job. I try to remain civil but I do not pander or kiss ass. I do know that I am not perfect and that I do make mistakes, and since I generally get a few 5 stars mixed in with lower ratings each day I don't sweat the fact that my rating is often down to 4.5.

The past few months have been a bit frustrating because I have run into a lot of street closures and detours due to road work and tree cutting. Some Pax have down rated my navigation skills because I didn't KNOW that there was a detour and how to get around it. So be it. My day job, years ago, had much better pay and benefits but also many more frustrations...


----------



## jspec

We all know its easy to fix and a bunch of ways to do it. Do you really think for 1 second that UBER didnt do this Intentionally (They are not as stupid as you think), some are so naive. Every single aspect about the APP, policies and systems are designed with a reason behind it, this isnt some algorythm side effect, or something thats not working exactly how they planned it. They dont change it because they dont want to change it. They want us to worry and drive in fear and hesitation everytime. I hate playing stupid child games. Its about CONTROL. Dont hold your breath, hold your head up high!

Just make sure you choose your battles wisely, there is a time and place to unleash the beast on a pax and other times to just ignore and postpone til the end of the ride. If you ever smell anything funny (not literally), just cancel. A hint of attitude, fuss, complaint or call before you arrive. If they are not willing to do their part, you dont have to do yours. Not worth the stress in the long run. The best ammo against passengers, disruption of service and higher wait times. Let them have to request 3 times until they get someone new that will take them with a smile and while getting violated from behind.

Remember what trunks are designed for when dealing with children; timeout/safe space. After a few minutes in the dark while your following WAZE doing LEFT and RIGHT turns like its a video game, maybe they will be a little more behaved.

One of the best parts of this job is that you can be a keen observer and then strategize your next move/response. Dont let them see you break a sweat, they just feed off that shit. I learned the more I apologized about trivial things, the more it hurt my psyche and led to more destructive behavior. Learn your enemies strategy so you can counter in a way where they realize their mistake. Humble them and they will be a dog with its tail between its legs. Most Pax are like pennies, leave them on the curb for someone else to pick up.
If you know how to show the perception of not HAVING IT, then i almost guaruntee you they will toy with you less (im not saying be a straight up bad attitude macho arsehole, but be firm by your demeanor, demand respect subtly). You can also react by laughing hysterically at hate towards you , it will leave them speechless. Dont let them get to you (keep your composure if possible), of course some dont know what politeness, edicate, manners, consideration or respect is, thats because they are animals in human bodies. Remember there is always a bigger dog, there is not absolute. Good luck.


FORM.FOLLOWS.FUNCTION


----------



## Retired Senior

jspec This month of October means a lot of things to me, personally. Today is Aleister Crowley's birthday. He was my spiritual mentor for many years. Today is also my 1 year anniversary of being an UBER Driver. I have 1,842 trips that I have been the Uber Driver for. And even though I try to avoid confrontation these days (my senior years) I have to tell you: I HAVE NO FREAKING IDEA OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

Maybe driving in Japan is vastly different from driving in America... Maybe because I only drive during the daylight hours I have been spared the type of Pax that you are writing about. 90% of the Uber riders that I have driven are decent people, asking only for what they have been promised: an inexpensive ride to their job or their home. For you to call them animals, or talk about hate being directed towards me, their driver... well you sound deranged. In 1980 I got my Bach in Social Work Degree and I am a good judge of character. If you, an UBER Driver in Japan, truly believes that he is suffering in this manner I have to suggest that you get another job, preferably one that will not bring you into contact with other living organisms!

I realize that the "language barrier" may have obscured the fine points of your argument. I am sorry if that is the case. Perhaps you should have your blood pressure tested and take the appropriate meds (as I do). Being a Taxi Driver is no excuse for having a stroke!


----------



## Julescase

sellkatsell44 said:


> LMAO
> 
> Strange Fruit, Julescase and I are all from the same state. Julescase has been going on and on about this waitress not making the same as other workers because of "tips" yet...she doesn't bother to get to know how service folks like waiters/waitresses are paid in her home state:
> 
> View attachment 163361
> 
> 
> As for the taxes of 18% on tips regardless...it's already been proven (unlike her claims) that waiters and waitresses in California as well as a good chunk of States in US, do not get the lower 2.13/hr wage (as this is dated thinking as I previously mentioned) and therefore the tips aren't used as a supplement until they make the standard minimum _because they already make the minimum. _The government also doesn't expect everyone to tip so there's no taxing on anything other then tips that are recorded. Everyone knows waiters and waitresses can pocket cash tips every now and then like any other IC that gets tipped. Bonuses paid out to other minimum wage workers? Automatically taxed. Prizes won for hard work? Also taxed. Why shouldn't tips be taxed as well. That's tips that are reported anyways...


This only underscores my point - we as drivers don't receive ANY guaranteed hourly rate, so we should absolutely always, without fail, be tipped. But due to Uber's atrocious "no tipping necessary" culture that was originally established and for some reason cannot seem to be un-learned by pax, despite getting all 5-stars, bountiful badges, and never-ending comments about how wonderful their ride was and how great the conversation was, tips are not the norm, they are the exception. It should be the other way around!

How is it that people always (if they have any self respect and are not selfish entitled assholes) tip waitstaff when (- even better!-) waitstaff earn an hourly rate, yet cheap obnoxious Uber pax don't tip drivers, who do not receive any (federal or state minimum) hourly wage? You're just more thoroughly confirming my original statement.

I'm not sure why other drivers are OK not being tipped on every ride when we do NOT earn a guaranteed hourly wage.... It's quite baffling to me how you're commenting as if what I'm trying to get across is something that would be a negative for us all - I'm all about the improvement of drivers' lives and earnings. Aren't you?


----------



## Sueuber

Didn't you guys hear about "Travic" he wants to make UBER cheapest taxi service ever.How could you guys expect a pax to tip you?it would only make their trip more expensive."STRIKE" is the answer.


----------



## sellkatsell44

Julescase said:


> This only underscores my point - we as drivers don't receive ANY guaranteed hourly rate, so we should absolutely always, without fail, be tipped. But due to Uber's atrocious "no tipping necessary" culture that was originally established and for some reason cannot seem to be un-learned by pax, despite getting all 5-stars, bountiful badges, and never-ending comments about how wonderful their ride was and how great the conversation was, tips are not the norm, they are the exception. It should be the other way around!
> 
> How is it that people always (if they have any self respect and are not selfish entitled assholes) tip waitstaff when (- even better!-) waitstaff earn an hourly rate, yet cheap obnoxious Uber pax don't tip drivers, who do not receive any (federal or state minimum) hourly wage? You're just more thoroughly confirming my original statement.
> 
> I'm not sure why other drivers are OK not being tipped on every ride when we do NOT earn a guaranteed hourly wage.... It's quite baffling to me how you're commenting as if what I'm trying to get across is something that would be a negative for us all - I'm all about the improvement of drivers' lives and earnings. Aren't you?


I never said drivers shouldn't be tipped.
I myself tip drivers.

If you recall this started with my few Qs about how you tip in other industries.

ETA then it exploded because it got sidetracked into other industries, with you mentioning you'd tip Starbucks but not at other fast food restaurants, which at some point I compared taxis being viewed like Starbucks and Uber like fast food restaurants.

Is it just me or autocorrect has been declining in its accuracy?!


----------



## ShinyAndChrome

jspec said:


> We all know its easy to fix and a bunch of ways to do it. Do you really think for 1 second that UBER didnt do this Intentionally (They are not as stupid as you think), some are so naive. Every single aspect about the APP, policies and systems are designed with a reason behind it, this isnt some algorythm side effect, or something thats not working exactly how they planned it. They dont change it because they dont want to change it. They want us to worry and drive in fear and hesitation everytime. I hate playing stupid child games. Its about CONTROL. Dont hold your breath, hold your head up high!


I'm convinced this is true less and less. What you're saying describes how I would run uber, and perhaps how you would. The more I am exposed to uber the less impressed i am by the leadership. The reversal of destinations on the 180 days of change was amateur hour. No other explanation for it. And what excuse do they have for this sort of thing? https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-laid-off-its-editing-staff-mickey-mouse.209725/

To this very day their navigation--which is the default for new drivers--is so bad that drivers ought not to use it. I bet if I drove somebody to the airport right now it would still tell me to take an illegal turn at the exit. How many times I apologized to people because the uber nav doesn't work.


----------



## Retired Senior

ShinyAndChrome said:


> I'm convinced this is true less and less. What you're saying describes how I would run uber, and perhaps how you would. The more I am exposed to uber the less impressed i am by the leadership. The reversal of destinations on the 180 days of change was amateur hour. No other explanation for it. And what excuse do they have for this sort of thing? https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-laid-off-its-editing-staff-mickey-mouse.209725/
> 
> To this very day their navigation--which is the default for new drivers--is so bad that drivers ought not to use it. I bet if I drove somebody to the airport right now it would still tell me to take an illegal turn at the exit. How many times I apologized to people because the uber nav doesn't work.


One year in, I still use either Google maps or Uber's wretched version of it. I may be wrong, but I think it helps me be on the same page as the rider waiting for me to pick him/her up. Here in Fairfield County, Connecticut the UBER GPS has been terrible this past week (not that it has ever been very reliable for any length of time). I don't know if there is any rational reason why I was often a street, or a block, from where the pax was waiting to be picked up. Sunspot activity? Bird migrations? GPS Nav staff smoking crack?



Julescase said:


> This only underscores my point - we as drivers don't receive ANY guaranteed hourly rate, so we should absolutely always, without fail, be tipped. But due to Uber's atrocious "no tipping necessary" culture that was originally established and for some reason cannot seem to be un-learned by pax, despite getting all 5-stars, bountiful badges, and never-ending comments about how wonderful their ride was and how great the conversation was, tips are not the norm, they are the exception. It should be the other way around!
> 
> How is it that people always (if they have any self respect and are not selfish entitled assholes) tip waitstaff when (- even better!-) waitstaff earn an hourly rate, yet cheap obnoxious Uber pax don't tip drivers, who do not receive any (federal or state minimum) hourly wage? You're just more thoroughly confirming my original statement.
> 
> I'm not sure why other drivers are OK not being tipped on every ride when we do NOT earn a guaranteed hourly wage.... It's quite baffling to me how you're commenting as if what I'm trying to get across is something that would be a negative for us all - I'm all about the improvement of drivers' lives and earnings. Aren't you?


This has got to be a cultural, or generational point of view thing. I have always felt that tipping was for strippers . When you hire a tradesperson, do you make tipping or not a consideration? When you bring your car in for servicing, do you throw the garage staff a tip? When you buy groceries do you hand the person on the register an extra 10 - 20% as a tip? When you shop at Walmart, where you know half the employees need the assistance of State social services to survive, do you feel compelled to tip?

Personally I have always stayed away from people who have their hand out. I do not frequent restaurants. I want to know before I engage in a business transaction exactly what the cost to me will be. As for those businesses with a mandatory 18% "tip" built into the price,... I feel this is simply bullshit semantics and should be outlawed. New York City cracked down 20 years ago on all of those merchants who were always claiming to be GOING OUT OFBUSINESS - LIQUIDATION SALE but never did close up shop. I think that restaurants and other businesses that deliberately confuse a base cost with tips should be outlawed also.


----------



## melusine3

Julescase said:


> This only underscores my point - we as drivers don't receive ANY guaranteed hourly rate, so we should absolutely always, without fail, be tipped. But due to Uber's atrocious "no tipping necessary" culture that was originally established and for some reason cannot seem to be un-learned by pax, despite getting all 5-stars, bountiful badges, and never-ending comments about how wonderful their ride was and how great the conversation was, tips are not the norm, they are the exception. It should be the other way around!
> 
> How is it that people always (if they have any self respect and are not selfish entitled assholes) tip waitstaff when (- even better!-) waitstaff earn an hourly rate, yet cheap obnoxious Uber pax don't tip drivers, who do not receive any (federal or state minimum) hourly wage? You're just more thoroughly confirming my original statement.
> 
> I'm not sure why other drivers are OK not being tipped on every ride when we do NOT earn a guaranteed hourly wage.... It's quite baffling to me how you're commenting as if what I'm trying to get across is something that would be a negative for us all - I'm all about the improvement of drivers' lives and earnings. Aren't you?


The very reason Kalackanick effectively banned tipping was because he wanted the cost of the rides to be CHEAP and nothing else. It had nothing to do with drivers carrying cash, because if they were truly vetting customers, we should no have to fear picking anyone up (though we do). It is all about cheap. Uber is hoping to be THE transportation provider, including bus etc. The problem is they assume once they are driverless, they can raise their fees and I have news for them, the passengers won't take it. Given the lack of addressing the gps/app inability to open gates on it's own (without arms, you see), the inability of the gps to understand a passenger setting the ride in a room toward the back of their house will absolutely force the driver/unmanned car to the street behind their house (how will the unmanned car figure THAT out?), proves to me that Uber isn't really serious about the business. Not enough to sustain, anyway, other than to end up as mass transit and then what will passengers deep in apartment complexes do? Actually WALK (God Forbid) to the "bus stop" again? lol Good luck with that.

It would behoove someone with programming ability to create a driver app that could be purchased and paid for monthly, one where drivers would determine their price. Those passengers (typically higher income types) wouldn't mind paying what is necessary for the driver to actually make profit, while they are truly getting a safe, reliable ride. But there are those (my niece, for instance) who doggedly insist they only want cheap. Well, they'll get what they pay for (inexperienced) or go back to the old ways of one sober, designated driver.



Sueuber said:


> Didn't you guys hear about "Travic" he wants to make UBER cheapest taxi service ever.How could you guys expect a pax to tip you?it would only make their trip more expensive."STRIKE" is the answer.


You just effectively explained why they constantly put new drivers on the road every day. There is no winning with this gig.



ShinyAndChrome said:


> I'm convinced this is true less and less. What you're saying describes how I would run uber, and perhaps how you would. The more I am exposed to uber the less impressed i am by the leadership. The reversal of destinations on the 180 days of change was amateur hour. No other explanation for it. And what excuse do they have for this sort of thing? https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-laid-off-its-editing-staff-mickey-mouse.209725/
> 
> To this very day their navigation--which is the default for new drivers--is so bad that drivers ought not to use it. I bet if I drove somebody to the airport right now it would still tell me to take an illegal turn at the exit. How many times I apologized to people because the uber nav doesn't work.


And yet they ding US for "navigation problems"!!!!!!



Retired Senior said:


> One year in, I still use either Google maps or Uber's wretched version of it. I may be wrong, but I think it helps me be on the same page as the rider waiting for me to pick him/her up. Here in Fairfield County, Connecticut the UBER GPS has been terrible this past week (not that it has ever been very reliable for any length of time). I don't know if there is any rational reason why I was often a street, or a block, from where the pax was waiting to be picked up. Sunspot activity? Bird migrations? GPS Nav staff smoking crack?


The reason the pick-up point can be so far off is because these companies don't train their passengers in effective pin dropping. You have to "pinch out" to scroll closer to your location. If you don't do that and drop your pin willy-nilly, it can lead up to 1/4 mile away. It takes effort, not many GAS, they just as soon call you to direct you once you've wasted a gallon of gas looking for them.


----------



## Julescase

Retired Senior said:


> One year in, I still use either Google maps or Uber's wretched version of it. I may be wrong, but I think it helps me be on the same page as the rider waiting for me to pick him/her up. Here in Fairfield County, Connecticut the UBER GPS has been terrible this past week (not that it has ever been very reliable for any length of time). I don't know if there is any rational reason why I was often a street, or a block, from where the pax was waiting to be picked up. Sunspot activity? Bird migrations? GPS Nav staff smoking crack?
> 
> This has got to be a cultural, or generational point of view thing. I have always felt that tipping was for strippers . When you hire a tradesperson, do you make tipping or not a consideration? When you bring your car in for servicing, do you throw the garage staff a tip? When you buy groceries do you hand the person on the register an extra 10 - 20% as a tip? When you shop at Walmart, where you know half the employees need the assistance of State social services to survive, do you feel compelled to tip?
> 
> Personally I have always stayed away from people who have their hand out. I do not frequent restaurants. I want to know before I engage in a business transaction exactly what the cost to me will be. As for those businesses with a mandatory 18% "tip" built into the price,... I feel this is simply bullshit semantics and should be outlawed. New York City cracked down 20 years ago on all of those merchants who were always claiming to be GOING OUT OFBUSINESS - LIQUIDATION SALE but never did close up shop. I think that restaurants and other businesses that deliberately confuse a base cost with tips should be outlawed also.


Thankk God you never sat at one of my tables back in my server days! I would have had to pay my taxes based on receiving a 15% tip from you, so if you didn't tip me, I would literally be paying for the pleasure of waiting on you. Servers' taxes are based on 15% of food sold, so if even one cheap diner decides to be an asshat and not tip, the server still has to pay taxes based on that meal's total.

Again, like many other people on this forum, you are confusing "customer service positions" (where people make hourly wages) and "service positions" where people's tips are what their income consists. Manicurists, hair stylists, and many others don't make hourly wages and their TIPS are their income. They rent their chair in a salon from the owner and the tips are their earnings. We as drivers do not make a guaranteed hourly wage. If we did, we'd actually be able to make a little bit of a living. In any other driving job (limo driver, cab driver, etc) where an hourly wage is not part of their income, TIPS are how they make a living. In the US, where CUSTOMER SERVICE positions earn hourly wages, we don't tip. THEY EARN A LIVING WITH A SALARY AND ARE GUARANTEED AN INCOME. We aren't guaranteed a thing.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome

I don't tip my mechanic. All of us tip waiters because we know it is just part of their salary. It is for taxis also and we all know it. Even as a kid I knew they needed a tip.


----------



## jspec

Retired Senior said:


> jspec This month of October means a lot of things to me, personally. Today is Aleister Crowley's birthday. He was my spiritual mentor for many years. Today is also my 1 year anniversary of being an UBER Driver. I have 1,842 trips that I have been the Uber Driver for. And even though I try to avoid confrontation these days (my senior years) I have to tell you: I HAVE NO FREAKING IDEA OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!
> 
> Maybe driving in Japan is vastly different from driving in America... Maybe because I only drive during the daylight hours I have been spared the type of Pax that you are writing about. 90% of the Uber riders that I have driven are decent people, asking only for what they have been promised: an inexpensive ride to their job or their home. For you to call them animals, or talk about hate being directed towards me, their driver... well you sound deranged. In 1980 I got my Bach in Social Work Degree and I am a good judge of character. If you, an UBER Driver in Japan, truly believes that he is suffering in this manner I have to suggest that you get another job, preferably one that will not bring you into contact with other living organisms!
> 
> I realize that the "language barrier" may have obscured the fine points of your argument. I am sorry if that is the case. Perhaps you should have your blood pressure tested and take the appropriate meds (as I do). Being a Taxi Driver is no excuse for having a stroke!


RetiredSenior: Im farmiliar with Mr Crowley. BTW Happy 1 yr anny as a driver! Most dont last this long, as you may already know. I am very happy that you have been able to avoid/steer clear of any negative situations with pax, but your experience is not the norm either when you avg the entire U.S. market. Im actually happy that in your experience my statement is not the case, I would rather not have bad situations and would rather not post this information. Unfortunately, for some markets such as mine in the San Francisco Bay Area, we are dealing with different beings (since you seem to not like the word animal). I would say that about 60-70% of my pax are normal Point A to Point B pax. Also just to note, that i am near a well known University which accounts for over half my business/rides. Almost 85% of my pax are under the age of 30, entitled, condescending, and just dont have a taste of the real world due to the superartificial incubator (bubble) they live in here in the Bay Area. Most have not lived in this state for more than a few years, yet the attitude of the city has changed as $$ is sweeping through at ridiculous rates. Perhaps you could say that its generation issue. perhaps something else. You seem to draw your own conclusions pretty fast.

You being my senior, I would assume that the way the world looks and functions now then when You or I were growing up in 60's, 70's, 80's is vastly different. Values, culture, parenting, etc. I respect your opinion and that you have Degree in social work. I do not drive in Japan, I am not deranged, and I am not angry. If I was I would not be here driving today. My 1 yr anny is on Halloween and this is my experience from the past 4000 rides.

You stated it yourself: perhaps its your market that is like this (i dont know the demographics/stats of the CT market), and yes you are correct as you only drive in the daytime. I drive PM only. While your picking up from work, im picking up from a Bar or venue. Alcohol or drugs are almost always involved in my experience. You should count your blessings that you do not have to have these interactions with misbehaving passengers. Im simply posting information that is relevant and hopefully useful for drivers that deal with these type of situations, but since it does not apply to you then, even better (you can avoid all the stress and BS that most drivers cannot avoid). It is what it is. The fact that you came to such quick conclusions, makes me question your judgement and thought process. As anything done in a hasty fashion (similar to my posts that may have small errors in them), you are bound to make bad decisions/calls/assumptions, but thats ok because we are all human, and it happens. You should be able to extract a few new character traits from this response here. Most other drivers would just let someone else have it, because they are just waiting to snap at anything (and if you dont believe that, then i cannot say anything else relevant).

I am however a bit disappointed (but not suprised), that with your good judge of character, you made such quick and inaccurate assumptions considering your stated educational background. Its concerning as I may think you lack perspective even though you have more collective life experiences than I do, assuming that you are 20-25+ yrs my senior. Im not sure where you even came up with language barrier, its clear from my posts that im a native born American (whatever that means these days, anyway). Perhaps limiting the unwarranted assumptions might help in better understanding the person you are and the person you are trying to define. Im not sure what the Taxi driver statement is about either. I have and would never drive one. I rarely have even riden in taxis, maybe 2-3 times in my lifetime. I love to drive, and have been the DD in my circle of friends and family since high school ( I do not drink), so perhaps that explains my lack of taxi riding experience. I am hardly disgruntled, or unhappy with this line of work. Perhaps viewing other city specific forums might better inform you of how other markets operate. I do not wish any of my pax upon you.

I honestly think you could not have been more wrong in your judgement of my character based off one post, but I do not blame you for your reaction if that is all you have to go on. 

FORM.FOLLOWS.FUNCTION


----------



## Retired Senior

Julescase said:


> Thankk God you never sat at one of my tables back in my server days! I would have had to pay my taxes based on receiving a 15% tip from you, so if you didn't tip me, I would literally be paying for the pleasure of waiting on you. Servers' taxes are based on 15% of food sold, so if even one cheap diner decides to be an asshat and not tip, the server still has to pay taxes based on that meal's total.
> 
> Again, like many other people on this forum, you are confusing "customer service positions" (where people make hourly wages) and "service positions" where people's tips are what their income consists. Manicurists, hair stylists, and many others don't make hourly wages and their TIPS are their income. They rent their chair in a salon from the owner and the tips are their earnings. We as drivers do not make a guaranteed hourly wage. If we did, we'd actually be able to make a little bit of a living. In any other driving job (limo driver, cab driver, etc) where an hourly wage is not part of their income, TIPS are how they make a living. In the US, where CUSTOMER SERVICE positions earn hourly wages, we don't tip. THEY EARN A LIVING WITH A SALARY AND ARE GUARANTEED AN INCOME. We aren't guaranteed a thing.


OK Kid, we are obviously inhabiting 2 separate cultures within the same world. The 2 intersect at the point where one decides if driving for UBER is worth doing for the stated pay rates, and the other decides to take a chance on the "tipping culture" . As I have very plainly stated before.... it really comes down to your options. At the moment I have no other option but to drive for UBER. If I net even $25 a day for 10 hours of work it is still $25 I would not have been able to obtain any other way.

You know, when I worked as a real estate salesman for my father's company I was not guaranteed a specific income. If I sold a house I got a commission. If not... well no cocaine that week (just kidding!). Up until 2006 I thought I was a really good real estate salesman... then deals started to NOT CLOSE after 3 months of work. You read the book THE BIG SHORT, or see the movie? We did not do mortgages so we did not understand that the entire hot housing market was kept running by the way of undocumented loans and mortgages that did not make any sense. When it crashed and burned so did I.

I still don't understand why anyone would work for tips. Are you that beautiful, sexual, magnetizing, or charismatic? Why would a person who was feeling financially pinched and so used UBER assume that you needed a tip to make ends meet?

I don't tip, and I don't assume anyone will tip me. If that is what work in this country is becoming then it is morally bankrupt. An honest days work for an honest days pay.... you don't need to "like" me... just agree that I did the job as defined and pay me what we agreed upon.

Please don't take this as a personal affront. We obviously were raised in different cultures, at different times. I find it fascinating that 2 people in the same country can hold such different opinions on something like tipping. Then again, enough people bought into Donald Trump's bullshit to elect him president, so I guess anything is possible. (I did not vote for Hillary either... two wrongs do not make a right!)


----------



## RideShareJUNKIE

Retired Senior said:


> jspec This month of October means a lot of things to me, personally. Today is Aleister Crowley's birthday. He was my spiritual mentor for many years. Today is also my 1 year anniversary of being an UBER Driver. I have 1,842 trips that I have been the Uber Driver for. And even though I try to avoid confrontation these days (my senior years) I have to tell you: I HAVE NO FREAKING IDEA OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!
> 
> Maybe driving in Japan is vastly different from drivinog in America... Maybe because I only drive during the daylight hours I have been spared the type of Pax that you are writing about. 90% of the Uber riders that I have driven are decent people, asking only for what they have been promised: an inexpensive ride to their job or their home. For you to call them animals, or talk about hate being directed towards me, their driver... well you sound deranged. In 1980 I got my Bach in Social Work Degree and I am a good judge of character. If you, an UBER Driver in Japan, truly believes that he is suffering in this manner I have to suggest that you get another job, preferably one that will not bring you into contact with other living organisms!
> 
> I realize that the "language barrier" may have obscured the fine points of your argument. I am sorry if that is the case. Perhaps you should have your blood pressure tested and take the appropriate meds (as I do). Being a Taxi Driver is no excuse for having a stroke!


You sound like your out of touch with reality old man. You should be happy that you dont have to deal with these passengers, instead of stating that your a good judge of character and how someone is crazy for making accurate comparisons about passengers and their behavior. Perhaps more reading and less typing on the forum, that would prevent foot in mouth syndrome. Assumptions only make people sound more ignorant.

Im curious how did you come up with "language barrier" from the OP's statement? Your just sounding more and more disconnected on this one...


----------



## Uberfunitis

Julescase said:


> Thankk God you never sat at one of my tables back in my server days! I would have had to pay my taxes based on receiving a 15% tip from you, so if you didn't tip me, I would literally be paying for the pleasure of waiting on you. Servers' taxes are based on 15% of food sold, so if even one cheap diner decides to be an asshat and not tip, the server still has to pay taxes based on that meal's total.


That would be your fault not the customers that you are not keeping track of your tips on a daily bases in a way that is allowed by the IRS, and instead are being lazy and relying on the assumed or allocated tips value given by the company.


----------



## Julescase

Uberfunitis said:


> Both make at least the minimum wage guaranteed and do very similar jobs there is virtually no difference other than a label, and most are employees not IC most IC do not get tips at all.


your never-ending sentence is 100% the opposite of the truth - and there is a world of difference between "customer service positions" and "service positions". They are not even similar. customer service positions don't receive tips - your statement should be the other way around. And it's untrue that "most IC do not get tips at all" since cab drivers, manicurists, hair stylists, many masseuses (sp?), waxers, and limo drivers are independent contractors. The only hair stylists that are actual employees work at places like Fantastic Sams and Super Cuts.....all other stylists rent their chairs within a salon but they are not employees OF a salon. Hair stylists are absolutely, 100% always tipped (again, unless they have cheap, uneducated and crap clients who don't know basic tipping etiquette) as are the other positions I mentioned. Why do you feel so adamant that drivers shouldn't expect or don't deserve tips? It's so incredibly odd to me. Ride share drivers aren't in the " customer service " business - we don't make an hourly salary, we aren't employees, and we're not selling items or goods at businesses. Our rides are *requested*, they're not our " product" that we sell or help coordinate.

So, to clarify: "customer service" positions receive hourly wages and don't receive or expect tips. Yes, some folks tip Starbucks (customer service) baristas, myself included, but they receive an hourly wage which is what their paychecks consist of. Customer service positions are employees and not ICs. They are front-facing positions who exist to assist customers when needed, either on the phone or in person. They are guaranteed a certain amount at the end of the week depending on their hours or days worked.

"Independent Contractors " do NOT (for the most part) receive hourly wages, and (for the most part) DO expect tips, and they actually DEPEND on their tips as their full earnings. Cab drivers, waitstaff, bartenders, hair stylists, manicurists, waxers, and We also should include ride share drivers. We're ICs and don't earn hourly fees.

Why don't you think drivers should expect tips? The ONLY reason tips are not the norm is because Uber drilled false statements into pax's heads for years. Cabdriver's have always gotten tips and we do the same thing for 1/4th the cost.


----------



## Uberfunitis

Julescase said:


> So, to clarify: "customer service" positions receive hourly wages and don't receive or expect tips. Yes, some folks tip Starbucks (customer service) baristas, myself included, but they receive an hourly wage which is what their paychecks consist of. Customer service positions are employees and not ICs. They are front-facing positions who exist to assist customers when needed, either on the phone or in person. They are guaranteed a certain amount at the end of the week depending on their hours or days worked.
> 
> "Independent Contractors " do NOT (for the most part) receive hourly wages, and (for the most part) DO expect tips, and they actually DEPEND on their tips as their full earnings. Cab drivers, waitstaff, bartenders, hair stylists, manicurists, waxers, and We also should include ride share drivers. We're ICs and don't earn hourly fees.
> 
> Why don't you think drivers should expect tips? The ONLY reason tips are not the norm is because Uber drilled false statements into pax's heads for years. Cabdriver's have always gotten tips and we do the same thing for 1/4th the cost.


Just to clarify waitstaff do receive an hourly wage that is guaranteed in the US to be at least the federal minimum wage and in many states much higher than that, guaranteed even if they were to receive no tip at all the entire day.

I don't think anyone should expect a tip as a tip is by definition voluntary. If it is expected than it is no longer a tip but a service charge.


----------



## NoPooPool

Uberfunitis said:


> Just to clarify waitstaff do receive an hourly wage that is guaranteed in the US to be at least the federal minimum wage and in many states much higher than that, guaranteed even if they were to receive no tip at all the entire day.
> 
> I don't think anyone should expect a tip as a tip is by definition voluntary. If it is expected than it is no longer a tip but a service charge.


You're entitled to your opinion, and it has some validity, but the mentality of the non-tippers needs to change. A measly dollar or two would go a long way. It does not have to be $5, $10, $20, especially on a short hop, but a small token of appreciation is always welcome. The 20% or so of PAX that do tip are the ones that were raised the right way, and I commend them.

As an example: I recently had a rider that was a pickup maybe a mile from where I sat near my home. It was an X request from a college age kid. He was going to his job at Subway. Minimum wage or maybe he got a little raise to just above min. wage? Who knows? His ride was under 2 miles. It was a minimum fare or something like $3.25. He tipped $3.00 in app. Now that is generous in my opinion. Necessary or required? No, but more than generous in my opinion, given his probable financial situation. Then there are the tightwads that squeak, they are so tight. I hope you get all of them, since you are good with that Uberfunitis. After all, based on your handle, you are just having FUN. The rest of us are trying to generate a positive income over and above our expenses, as we poach the equity out of our own personal cars.


----------



## Uberfunitis

NoPooPool said:


> You're entitled to your opinion, and it has some validity, but the mentality of the non-tippers needs to change. A measly dollar or two would go a long way. It does not have to be $5, $10, $20, especially on a short hop, but a small token of appreciation is always welcome. The 20% or so of PAX that do tip are the ones that were raised the right way, and I commend them.
> 
> As an example: I recently had a rider that was a pickup maybe a mile from where I sat near my home. It was an X request from a college age kid. He was going to his job at Subway. Minimum wage or maybe he got a little raise to just above min. wage? Who knows? His ride was under 2 miles. It was a minimum fare or something like $3.25. He tipped $3.00 in app. Now that is generous in my opinion. Necessary or required? No, but more than generous in my opinion, given his probable financial situation. Then there are the tightwads that squeak, they are so tight. I hope you get all of them, since you are good with that Uberfunitis. After all, based on your handle, you are just having FUN. The rest of us are trying to generate a positive income over and above our expenses, as we poach the equity out of our own personal cars.


I am fine taking all these non tippers, I do not count on the tips, nor do I need them to be profitable with this gig.


----------



## NoPooPool

Uberfunitis said:


> I am fine taking all these non tippers, I do not count on the tips, nor do I need them to be profitable with this gig.


Nobody should do this gig and count on tips to be profitable. So what? We take what we get, and none of us have any control on the frequency of tips or the amount of a tip. Obviously! What I am saying, and I am sure 95% of Uber drivers feel the same, is that the customer is getting a really cheap ride with Uber, and a tip can go a long way in covering our expenses, as we all know, we cover the car, the fuel, gap insurance, etc. etc., as we burn up the equity and useful life of our cars.

Profitable? What kind of car do you drive. Do the math. This gig is not at all that profitable.


----------



## Uberfunitis

NoPooPool said:


> Nobody should do this gig and count on tips to be profitable. So what? We take what we get, and none of us have any control on the frequency of tips or the amount of a tip. Obviously! What I am saying, and I am sure 95% of Uber drivers feel the same, is that the customer is getting a really cheap ride with Uber, and a tip can go a long way in covering our expenses, as we all know, we cover the car, the fuel, gap insurance, etc. etc., as we burn up the equity and useful life of our cars.
> 
> Profitable? What kind of car do you drive. Do the math. This gig is not at all that profitable.


I actually do not think that Uber trips are all that cheap at all, perhaps what the driver gets after Ubers cut is low I will give you that. Even at the low rates that Uber pays after their cut is enough for me to cover expenses and also make a profit.

I rent my vehicle so I know exactly what my expenses are, there is nothing hidden or lurking in terms of vehicle depreciation or maintenance. The way I do Uber is perhaps the worst way you can do it in terms of expenses but yet I can make it work, I don't understand how others can not who are driving their own vehicle.

I have softened my stance on tips somewhat, but still a tip can not be a tip if it is expected or even required as some would like.


----------



## NoPooPool

Uberfunitis said:


> I actually do not think that Uber trips are all that cheap at all, perhaps what the driver gets after Ubers cut is low I will give you that. Even at the low rates that Uber pays after their cut is enough for me to cover expenses and also make a profit.
> 
> I rent my vehicle so I know exactly what my expenses are, there is nothing hidden or lurking in terms of vehicle depreciation or maintenance. The way I do Uber is perhaps the worst way you can do it in terms of expenses but yet I can make it work, I don't understand how others can not who are driving their own vehicle.
> 
> I have softened my stance on tips somewhat, but still a tip can not be a tip if it is expected or even required as some would like.[/QUOTE
> Uber on!


Uber on.


----------



## Twinflower

They also need to batch tips so that drivers can not rate based on tip.


----------



## DrivingForYou

.



Twinflower said:


> They also need to batch tips so that drivers can not rate based on tip.


This makes no sense - drivers must rate immediately after a ride, so we rate before we know if you left a tip or not.

Best practice is give a CASH tip in person.

Never TELL US you are "going to tip in the app" because real tippers never say this, they just do it.

Fake tippers are dishonest and always say "I'll tip you in the app".


----------



## david90292

DrivingForYou said:


> Hey look everyone it's a lying paxhole in our midst.
> 
> I don't believe you tipped. You are lying, because you can't tip unless you also make a rating, and you can't change a rating once you make it.
> 
> So, you are LYING. You lied to the driver and you didn't tip. Then you saw your rating was lower, so you rated low in retaliation.
> 
> You are obviously the same self entitled millennial type that we run into on a regular basis.
> 
> You don't tip because you want the drivers to work for free for you.
> 
> Tips makes no sense - drivers must rate immediately after a ride, so we rate before we know if you left a tip or not.
> 
> Give us a CASH tip in person.
> 
> Never TELL US you are "going to tip in the app" because real tippers never say this, they just do it.
> 
> Fake tippers lie and always say "I'll tip you in the app".


Not very bright, are you? Look at the date of my post. It was before the change by uber. I didn't lie. I have been following this blog for almost 3 years; you can see when I joined. I can't get over how the quality and tenor of the posts have changed this last year. It now mirrors the quality of drivers that you represent: rude, abrupt, bad-mannered, discourteous and vulgar. Since you appear capable of reading prior posts, go back a few years and see the more civil discourse. My kids are millennials, I'm not. You'd be better served delivering pizza. They aren't self-entitled and won't offend you.


----------



## upyouruber

Uberfunitis said:


> They also need to batch tips so that drivers can not rate based on tip.


----------



## david90292

DrivingForYou said:


> Hey creep, you posted Oct 1, regardless there was never a "button" to change a rating, you had to do it via support, and have a real reason. Sounds like you did it in retaliation, well F off.


Did you even read this thread??? Passengers could change ratings in the app. It didn't require support. I'll leave it to you to search the old process-it was all over this blog. And yes, I retaliated a low rating after I tipped in the app (telling him I would do so) because you drivers have convinced yourselves every passenger lies. It was the first time I ever did that. I now have the driver watch me tip them in the app, citing this blog as my reason. I do value my rating because I use the service a lot. You really do have a chip on your shoulder.


----------



## NoPooPool

DrivingForYou said:


> Hey look everyone it's a lying paxhole in our midst.
> 
> I don't believe you tipped. You are lying, because you can't tip unless you also make a rating, and you can't change a rating once you make it.
> 
> So, you are LYING. You lied to the driver and you didn't tip. Then you saw your rating was lower, so you rated low in retaliation.
> 
> You are obviously the same self entitled millennial type that we run into on a regular basis.
> 
> You don't tip because you want the drivers to work for free for you.
> 
> Tips makes no sense - drivers must rate immediately after a ride, so we rate before we know if you left a tip or not.
> 
> Give us a CASH tip in person.
> 
> Never TELL US you are "going to tip in the app" because real tippers never say this, they just do it.
> 
> Fake tippers lie and always say "I'll tip you in the app".





melusine3 said:


> The very reason Kalackanick effectively banned tipping was because he wanted the cost of the rides to be CHEAP and nothing else. It had nothing to do with drivers carrying cash, because if they were truly vetting customers, we should no have to fear picking anyone up (though we do). It is all about cheap. Uber is hoping to be THE transportation provider, including bus etc. The problem is they assume once they are driverless, they can raise their fees and I have news for them, the passengers won't take it. Given the lack of addressing the gps/app inability to open gates on it's own (without arms, you see), the inability of the gps to understand a passenger setting the ride in a room toward the back of their house will absolutely force the driver/unmanned car to the street behind their house (how will the unmanned car figure THAT out?), proves to me that Uber isn't really serious about the business. Not enough to sustain, anyway, other than to end up as mass transit and then what will passengers deep in apartment complexes do? Actually WALK (God Forbid) to the "bus stop" again? lol Good luck with that.
> 
> It would behoove someone with programming ability to create a driver app that could be purchased and paid for monthly, one where drivers would determine their price. Those passengers (typically higher income types) wouldn't mind paying what is necessary for the driver to actually make profit, while they are truly getting a safe, reliable ride. But there are those (my niece, for instance) who doggedly insist they only want cheap. Well, they'll get what they pay for (inexperienced) or go back to the old ways of one sober, designated driver.
> 
> You just effectively explained why they constantly put new drivers on the road every day. There is no winning with this gig.
> 
> And yet they ding US for "navigation problems"!!!!!!
> 
> The reason the pick-up point can be so far off is because these companies don't train their passengers in effective pin dropping. You have to "pinch out" to scroll closer to your location. If you don't do that and drop your pin willy-nilly, it can lead up to 1/4 mile away. It takes effort, not many GAS, they just as soon call you to direct you once you've wasted a gallon of gas looking for them.


News flash. Up to a quarter mile away? I have had two early morning bar fly pax in the past six weeks that obviously dropped a pin, and did not pinch out. After a phone call to pax in each case after arriving at their bogus pickup address and with no sign of a paxhole and to figure out where they actually were, the first group of 40ish women were 1.25 miles away from the pickup address location. The second pax that was a problem and costed me all told in miles to the original address an estimated 3-4 miles of interstate driving, and then (get this) another 2.4 miles to the actual location their drunk @$$es where waiting. I got within 2 blocks, when I fired off another telephone call to try to complete final approach to pickup. That is when the paxhole cancelled.

That fiasco involved about 6-7 miles and probably about 25 minutes, involving three phone calls at 2:00 am.

After the cancel by rider, the real fun started. The not so funny thing that occured? All record of the booking completely disappeared from my ride transaction data screen. I called the 24/7 phone support to fight for cancellation fee. You could imagine the fight I had on my hands, the degree of stonewalling from the Uber CS rep, and the extent of how pissed off I was becoming on my 10 minute call sparring with the rep. I explained 3 times what had occured, what the time and miles were that I had invested in the ride request, and the rep kept on asking me what was the exact time of the ride request. I gave a best estimate, and told her it was a ride request that slotted in between ride X and Z. Told her you tell me, you have record of it in your bios of my trips for that date and time. I for whatever reason had nothing as stated. The rep at one point told me the trip did not qualify for a cancellation fee, because the pax cancelled within one second of requesting the ride. She also tried bamboozling me by saying there is no way to pay me. I told her that is bull $h!+. Miscellaneous promotion, or cleaning fee, will work fine for all involved. As I banged my head against the wall, I told her this is all legit and how it went down, and that I had already explained three times in the conversation what occured with the pin drop, the time and mileage I had invested in the fiasco, and told her "do you think I would waste my time attempting to collect a $3.75 cancellation fee, while enjoying having the pleasure of dealing with her." I then told her you will pay me my cancellation fee, or I have driven my last ride on Uber, and I will delete the app off of my iPhone just as soon as our call ended.

In the end I was actually successful in receiving a net cancel fee of $5.00, without Uber deducting 25%. It pays to fight their dirty @$$es.



DrivingForYou said:


> Hey look everyone it's a lying paxhole in our midst.
> 
> I don't believe you tipped. You are lying, because you can't tip unless you also make a rating, and you can't change a rating once you make it.
> 
> So, you are LYING. You lied to the driver and you didn't tip. Then you saw your rating was lower, so you rated low in retaliation.
> 
> You are obviously the same self entitled millennial type that we run into on a regular basis.
> 
> You don't tip because you want the drivers to work for free for you.
> 
> Tips makes no sense - drivers must rate immediately after a ride, so we rate before we know if you left a tip or not.
> 
> Give us a CASH tip in person.
> 
> Never TELL US you are "going to tip in the app" because real tippers never say this, they just do it.
> 
> Fake tippers lie and always say "I'll tip you in the app".


Funny thing happened to me just yesterday. PAX ride was a under two mile ride on X. Paid me $3.58. He told me he will 5* me and tip in app. He did all that as promised. Wonders never cease to amaze me.


----------



## wingdog

Strange Fruit said:


> How do you know if they're a millenial? What age is the cutoff? Born after Jan1 1984? It varies depending on where you read, back to at least 1980. (dang, they're in their mid 30s now). When does it end and become the next generation to be derided by geezers? So if it's Jan 1 1984 to whenever, then are Decemberites from '83 suddenly a different way of being from the millenials (is that GenX, idk)? How is the switch that sets the generations' behavior switched? Are all you just like everybody in yr generation when it comes to financial generosity? It's a mystery to me how this works.


I'm an in-betweener, so are my parents...

It took me a while to figure out this generational stuff but when I finally did it was a no brainer.

anyone younger than me is a millennial, anyone older then me but younger than my parents is a gen x, and older than my parents is a boomer.

Your just about right.. the '80's kids' are the dividing line.


----------



## DrivingForYou

NoPooPool said:


> News flash. Up to a quarter mile away? I have had two early morning bar fly pax in the past six weeks that obviously dropped a pin, and did not pinch out. After a phone call to pax in each case after arriving at their bogus pickup address and with no sign of a paxhole and to figure out where they actually were, the first group of 40ish women were 1.25 miles away from the pickup address location. The second pax that was a problem and costed me all told in miles to the original address an estimated 3-4 miles of interstate driving, and then (get this) another 2.4 miles to the actual location .


They probably did this crap to avoid surge. If they are that far from where they set they pin they are trying to skip out of a high surge. Just go to the pin drop, time out and collect cancel fee.

Definitely do not waste time picking them up elsewhere, that will only encourage them to keep gaming the system.


----------

