# Commercial insurance for Uber drivers is mandatory. Your personal insurance policy doesnt cover you



## John T

BE CAREFUL! In California your personal insurance will not cover you for collision if you have an accident. FURTHERMORE, despite what uber says, you Liability wont work either. You need to purchase commercial insurance. $4800 a year is the cheapest I found


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## Truth & Facts

This might be Uber attitude and assertions:

Before an accident happened --- We will always back up our drivers
After an accident happened --- We will always break up our drivers and deactivate them from using our platform or resources.


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## AintWorthIt

Yeah we know.


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## CLAkid

John T said:


> BE CAREFUL! In California your personal insurance will not cover you for collision if you have an accident. FURTHERMORE, despite what uber says, you Liability wont work either. You need to purchase commercial insurance. $4800 a year is the cheapest I found


Is it the same for Lyft?


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## uber_sea

Yup both apps offer inadequate insurance for the driver. Drive at your own risk.


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## LA Cabbie

Part of the reason cabs is so expensive is that we pay $500 a month for commercial insurance. If you get in a accident your personal insurance would dump you because you committed fraud for using your vehicle for what effectively is commercial purposes.

And if they ever find out you are a ride share driver they will either warn you or just quickly terminate your policy.

This one is very important. What would happen if you were driving uber but no passenger and God forbid you caused an accident?

You will be personally liable is the answer.


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## Truth & Facts

Before an accident happened --- Uber will always back up the drivers
After an accident happened --- Uber might break up the drivers and deactivate them from using Uber's platform or resources.


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## gman

John T said:


> BE CAREFUL! In California your personal insurance will not cover you for collision if you have an accident. FURTHERMORE, despite what uber says, you Liability wont work either. You need to purchase commercial insurance. $4800 a year is the cheapest I found


Another angel from heaven here to help save us from ourselves, lol.


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## Tx rides

gman said:


> Another angel from heaven here to help save us from ourselves, lol.


Well there are those on the forum who KNOW the risk, and don't care, but there are newcomers who deserve to hear the truth.


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## Mrpushpop

LA Cabbie said:


> This one is very important. What would happen if you were driving uber but no passenger and God forbid you caused an accident?


How would your insurance company know? If you have no Pax you shut the phone off after the accident. My insurance agency asks dumb questions after an accident but never were you driving Uber during the time of accident?


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## EdMoney

I just purchased a commercial rideshare policy through Geico for $140 a month... Hopefully the roll this out nationwide soon.


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## Truth & Facts

Mrpushpop said:


> How would your insurance company know? If you have no Pax you shut the phone off after the accident. My insurance agency asks dumb questions after an accident but never were you driving Uber during the time of accident?


If your insurance company ask you, "Do you drive for Uber?"

How will you respond to that simple question? You cannot play as a deaf or dumb, can you?


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## TeleSki

I called several insurance brokers back before I started driving. None of them knew of anyone that offered a commercial policy for an Uber X driver, only ones that were TCP licensed. I'd like to get a hybrid policy, or even commercial (although at $500/month, I'd quit driving because I only drive part-time and make about $600-$1000 a month anyway), if they were offered. Uber will (theoretically) cover your collision damage, if you have collision damage on your personal policy, if it occurs while driving a passenger. I think you are on your own for medical, though.


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## proth3us

Truth & Facts said:


> If your insurance company ask you, "Do you drive for Uber?"
> 
> How will you respond to that simple question? You cannot play as a deaf or dumb, can you?


i would say "whats uber?" lol


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## Mrpushpop

proth3us said:


> i would say "whats uber?" lol


As would I, The only situation I can see really screwing you over is an accident so bad you black out or are disabled. At that point you would not be able clean the scene and it could all be put in the police report.


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## u-Boater

TNC (ride share-specific) insurance will surely be making its way to Cali shortly. Keep hounding your local agencies. Tell them about Erie, USAA & Farmer's. (And tell them they need to grow a pair and strike while the iron's hot).


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## TeleSki

u-Boater said:


> TNC (ride share-specific) insurance will surely be making its way to Cali shortly. Keep hounding your local agencies. Tell them about Erie, USAA & Farmer's. (And tell them they need to grow a pair and strike while the iron's hot).


I think they were working on a law to having something in place by August...USAA? Are they offering TNC insurance?


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## Simon

TeleSki said:


> I think they were working on a law to having something in place by August...USAA? Are they offering TNC insurance?


Yup... only in certain states.


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## TeleSki

Any idea how much the premium is, as a percentage of the regular personal premium?
I'll have to follow-up with that. After I saw your post, I did a google search. Looks like an insurance company in California is due to start a program this month. 
http://www.insurancejournal.com/blogs/right-street/2015/01/28/355741.htm


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## Bob Smith

EdMoney said:


> I just purchased a commercial rideshare policy through Geico for $140 a month... Hopefully the roll this out nationwide soon.


How do you keep up with expenses when your paying for insurance, gas, maintenance etc? are wouldnt that lower ur costs to LESS then minimum wage?


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## UberHustla

proth3us said:


> i would say "whats uber?" lol


"Oh I'm too smart to work for that place"


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## Tx rides

Mrpushpop said:


> How would your insurance company know? If you have no Pax you shut the phone off after the accident. My insurance agency asks dumb questions after an accident but never were you driving Uber during the time of accident?


And THAT is fraud which will screw you WAY more than any valid coverage would cost


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## Tx rides

Mrpushpop said:


> As would I, The only situation I can see really screwing you over is an accident so bad you black out or are disabled. At that point you would not be able clean the scene and it could all be put in the police report.


It would be in a police report if you were known to be an Uber driver. Security staff, valets, passengers who just exited your vehicle, They are witnesses, and don't forget that Uber collects your info, runs checks on you, etc. Some of those queries show up on searches.

Most carriers have livery exclusions. Some are writing special hybrid plans, but if you think it is worth the lie to forego valid coverage, you'll reap what you sow.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhuet/2014/12/18/uber-lyft-driver-insurance/


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## EdMoney

Bob Smith said:


> How do you keep up with expenses when your paying for insurance, gas, maintenance etc? are wouldnt that lower ur costs to LESS then minimum wage?


I am not worried about turning a large profit... My day job is selling cars so I uber to network and hopefully sell more cars. If uber starts to cost me money and doesn't result in extra car sales I stop and it is no sweat off my back.


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## MikeB

Tx rides said:


> It would be in a police report if you were known to be an Uber driver. Security staff, valets, passengers who just exited your vehicle, They are witnesses, and don't forget that Uber collects your info, runs checks on you, etc. Some of those queries show up on searches.
> 
> Most carriers have livery exclusions. Some are writing special hybrid plans, but if you think it is worth the lie to forego valid coverage, you'll reap what you sow.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhuet/2014/12/18/uber-lyft-driver-insurance/


Security cameras everywhere as well. When you drive for TNC you are supposed to display the trade dress by law. Uber/Lyft signs, airport permits on the windshield, the cellphone on the dash/windshield - these are all telltale signs that the personal vehicle is involved in commercial activity of transporting the passengers for hire.
If there's an accident when the TNC driver is exiting his vehicle all the witnesses, other driver, their passengers, pedestrians all will notice immediately that the car is used for Uber/Lyft and will report it to the police and the insurance companies. Their own and the one covering the TNC driver, his personal auto insurance company. There is no way that immediately following the accident a TNC driver starts ripping his fare meter off the dashboard, airport permits off the windshield in order to cover and hide from insurance that he was involved in commercial activity transporting passengers for hire.
Driving for Uber/Lyft is an insurance fraud committed by the TNC drivers and it is very risky one. Because if the personal insurance carrier does find out about their insured using the covered vehicle for livery, not only it will cancel the insurance policy immediately, but it will also notify ALL OTHER INSURANCE COMPANIES of the cancellation due to the commercial activity of the former insured, i.e. insurance fraud.
It will be next to impossible to find another insurance company to purchase an insurance from for the personal use at this point, so the driver will be uninsured. That in turn will trigger deactivation from Uber/Lyft.

The risk is huge. I am not sure that the whole Uber/Lyft gig with it's current rates, market over-saturation with new inexperienced and arithmetically-challenged drivers as well as Uber's overall attitude towards their "partners" and lack of respect for any laws really worth it.


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## Actionjax

What the hell is there to be worried about. They cancel me I will sell the car and take Uber Everywhere. And rent a car when needed. Its cheap enough. And soon it will be cheaper than car ownership. I will have my own private driver and can 1 star them when they talk back.

Show me the downside.


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## TeleSki

There was an accident in my area a couple weeks ago that was in the paper. Had a picture of the car, and you could see the trade dress in the windshield. Headline was something like, "Possible Uber driver involved on accident".


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## MikeB

Actionjax said:


> What the hell is there to be worried about. They cancel me I will sell the car and take Uber Everywhere. And rent a car when needed. Its cheap enough. And soon it will be cheaper than car ownership. I will have my own private driver and can 1 star them when they talk back.
> 
> Show me the downside.


No, if your insurance company cancels you for using personal insurance for commercial activities transporting pax for hire you won't be able to purchase insurance anymore and hence won't able to rent a car without insurance.
Paying for you rides to Uber? Sure, go right ahead. Give this shit company more of your money!
Drive for Uber while trying to cheat your personal insurance company all you want. Do you think I care for you?
Wrong.
I don't.
Might as well go on the street corner selling drugs. Good money With your risk/reward assessment ratio that will be great job for you. Haha!


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## Rich Brunelle

Yes, if paying a car payment, insurance, fuel, maintenance, and regular car washes the end result is under minimum wage if ay wage at all.


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## Gemgirlla

MikeB said:


> Security cameras everywhere as well. When you drive for TNC you are supposed to display the trade dress by law. Uber/Lyft signs, airport permits on the windshield, the cellphone on the dash/windshield - these are all telltale signs that the personal vehicle is involved in commercial activity of transporting the passengers for hire.
> If there's an accident when the TNC driver is exiting his vehicle all the witnesses, other driver, their passengers, pedestrians all will notice immediately that the car is used for Uber/Lyft and will report it to the police and the insurance companies. Their own and the one covering the TNC driver, his personal auto insurance company. There is no way that immediately following the accident a TNC driver starts ripping his fare meter off the dashboard, airport permits off the windshield in order to cover and hide from insurance that he was involved in commercial activity transporting passengers for hire.
> Driving for Uber/Lyft is an insurance fraud committed by the TNC drivers and it is very risky one. Because if the personal insurance carrier does find out about their insured using the covered vehicle for livery, not only it will cancel the insurance policy immediately, but it will also notify ALL OTHER INSURANCE COMPANIES of the cancellation due to the commercial activity of the former insured, i.e. insurance fraud.
> It will be next to impossible to find another insurance company to purchase an insurance from for the personal use at this point, so the driver will be uninsured. That in turn will trigger deactivation from Uber/Lyft.
> 
> The risk is huge. I am not sure that the whole Uber/Lyft gig with it's current rates, market over-saturation with new inexperienced and arithmetically-challenged drivers as well as Uber's overall attitude towards their "partners" and lack of respect for any laws really worth it.


What's interesting is that the entire state of California, including the governor, legislature, public transportation commission, insurance commission, DMV, major of Los Angeles, major universities such as USC (who has an contract for Uber X drivers), etc. know that 1000s of Uber X and Lyft drivers are driving using their personal insurance coverage as well as Uber's policy. Don't you think if this was such a huge deal, they would have come up w/ an insurance policy that works for TNC drivers by now. They did require Uber to up the insurance they carry for the drivers. I haven't heard of anyone in California losing his/her insurance because of an accident and being unable to get insurance coverage. Have you?


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## Actionjax

MikeB said:


> No, if your insurance company cancels you for using personal insurance for commercial activities transporting pax for hire you won't be able to purchase insurance anymore and hence won't able to rent a car without insurance.
> Paying for you rides to Uber? Sure, go right ahead. Give this shit company more of your money!
> Drive for Uber while trying to cheat your personal insurance company all you want. Do you think I care for you?
> Wrong.
> I don't.
> Might as well go on the street corner selling drugs. Good money With your risk/reward assessment ratio that will be great job for you. Haha!


Not true. You can rent a car without personal insurance. My credit card covers it 100%. The same holds true for zip car. You see there are ways around it for meth dealers like me.

And in case you didn't pick up on it my first post was being sarcastic.

But in the end most people who are in a minor accident will just throw the phone out the window and say it was a regular accident. Only time that's hard to do is with a passenger. And around here the police don't come to the scene of minor accidents. You go to reporting centre. A lot can happen between the accident and then.


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## Mrpushpop

Actionjax said:


> Not true. You can rent a car without personal insurance. My credit card covers it 100%. The same holds true for zip car. You see there are ways around it for meth dealers like me.
> 
> And in case you didn't pick up on it my first post was being sarcastic.
> 
> But in the end most people who are in a minor accident will just throw the phone out the window and say it was a regular accident. Only time that's hard to do is with a passenger. And around here the police don't come to the scene of minor accidents. You go to reporting centre. A lot can happen between the accident and then.


Exactly! I was in an accident 10 months ago that was the other persons fault (I was not driving for Uber). Police took 15 minutes to show up, no one stopped to be a witness despite heavy traffic, and we were ordered to move our cars out of the street by a passing firetruck. Thank God I took personal pictures of the scene before we moved the cars or the police would not of known anything by the time they showed up. The other driver got ticketed and her insurance company still fought mine. 6 months later I finally got my check in the mail. Apparently when insurance companies both refuse their driver was at fault it goes to arbitration and your case waits in a very long line. At NO point during all of that was I asked anything about ride share. Even if I would of had a Uber card in my window, that is not proof I was ubering. I could be off duty, I could just like the logo, My dad could drive for Uber and I support him so I put a symbol on my car.

All that being said, I do hope for hybrid style insurance for our personal policies. It would make me feel more at ease as a driver, and peace of mind would be a wonderful thing. At the same time, it needs to be affordable since Uber rates are at a low.


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## Tx rides

MikeB said:


> No, if your insurance company cancels you for using personal insurance for commercial activities transporting pax for hire you won't be able to purchase insurance anymore and hence won't able to rent a car without insurance.
> Paying for you rides to Uber? Sure, go right ahead. Give this shit company more of your money!
> Drive for Uber while trying to cheat your personal insurance company all you want. Do you think I care for you?
> Wrong.
> I don't.
> Might as well go on the street corner selling drugs. Good money With your risk/reward assessment ratio that will be great job for you. Haha!


I think ActionJax had his tongue firmly planted in his cheek.


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## Tx rides

Mrpushpop said:


> Exactly! I was in an accident 10 months ago that was the other persons fault (I was not driving for Uber). Police took 15 minutes to show up, no one stopped to be a witness despite heavy traffic, and we were ordered to move our cars out of the street by a passing firetruck. Thank God I took personal pictures of the scene before we moved the cars or the police would not of known anything by the time they showed up. The other driver got ticketed and her insurance company still fought mine. 6 months later I finally got my check in the mail. Apparently when insurance companies both refuse their driver was at fault it goes to arbitration and your case waits in a very long line. At NO point during all of that was I asked anything about ride share. Even if I would of had a Uber card in my window, that is not proof I was ubering. I could be off duty, I could just like the logo, My dad could drive for Uber and I support him so I put a symbol on my car.
> 
> All that being said, I do hope for hybrid style insurance for our personal policies. It would make me feel more at ease as a driver, and peace of mind would be a wonderful thing. At the same time, it needs to be affordable since Uber rates are at a low.


That was 10 months ago. Most companies have "wised up"


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## Tx rides

Mrpushpop said:


> Exactly! I was in an accident 10 months ago that was the other persons fault (I was not driving for Uber). Police took 15 minutes to show up, no one stopped to be a witness despite heavy traffic, and we were ordered to move our cars out of the street by a passing firetruck. Thank God I took personal pictures of the scene before we moved the cars or the police would not of known anything by the time they showed up. The other driver got ticketed and her insurance company still fought mine. 6 months later I finally got my check in the mail. Apparently when insurance companies both refuse their driver was at fault it goes to arbitration and your case waits in a very long line. At NO point during all of that was I asked anything about ride share. Even if I would of had a Uber card in my window, that is not proof I was ubering. I could be off duty, I could just like the logo, My dad could drive for Uber and I support him so I put a symbol on my car.
> 
> All that being said, I do hope for hybrid style insurance for our personal policies. It would make me feel more at ease as a driver, and peace of mind would be a wonderful thing. At the same time, it needs to be affordable since Uber rates are at a low.


With all due respect here... Why do you think your insurance should be any more affordable than ours (livery company)? When we first started, we had one sedan, and a crappy limo, (because the city of Austin makes you own a stretch limousine). We had to buy commercial insurance for both. As we have grown the company, we have increased our insurance expenses, obviously. For the life of me, I do not understand why Uber drivers believe they don't have the same risks and responsibilities as we do. In fact, I would argue that our risks are probably lower, because all of our drivers are professionally trained.

I have heard some defend their lack of commercial insurance as "I only do this part time". Well our cars are not in the road 24x7 (I wish they WERE), in fact sometimes a sedan may sit for days, especially in January, July and August. We don't get special dispensation because they are parked, since they COULD go out at any time.

I guess my point is: you are not really any different, so the fact that companies will even write a policy for hybrid use is quite a gift in itself.


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## Tx rides

Gemgirlla said:


> What's interesting is that the entire state of California, including the governor, legislature, public transportation commission, insurance commission, DMV, major of Los Angeles, major universities such as USC (who has an contract for Uber X drivers), etc. know that 1000s of Uber X and Lyft drivers are driving using their personal insurance coverage as well as Uber's policy. Don't you think if this was such a huge deal, they would have come up w/ an insurance policy that works for TNC drivers by now. They did require Uber to up the insurance they carry for the drivers. I haven't heard of anyone in California losing his/her insurance because of an accident and being unable to get insurance coverage. Have you?


Yes, I've read several accounts of cancelled policies. Like I just asked another poster: why do you think you should not be required to have a commercial policy like any other small sedan service operator? I'm not trying to sound snarky here: I mean, what is it that you think is different about your service which should justify an insurance company making special provisions? I have a feeling that these hybrid policies are going to start off as relatively cheap, then the rates are going to increase as claims are made, and you will all be on record as being TNC drivers, eventually paying closer to the rates companies like ours pay.


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## Actionjax

Tx rides said:


> With all due respect here... Why do you think your insurance should be any more affordable than ours (livery company)? When we first started, we had one sedan, and a crappy limo, (because the city of Austin makes you own a stretch limousine). We had to buy commercial insurance for both. As we have grown the company, we have increased our insurance expenses, obviously. For the life of me, I do not understand why Uber drivers believe they don't have the same risks and responsibilities as we do. In fact, I would argue that our risks are probably lower, because all of our drivers are professionally trained.
> 
> I have heard some defend their lack of commercial insurance as "I only do this part time". Well our cars are not in the road 24x7 (I wish they WERE), in fact sometimes a sedan may sit for days, especially in January, July and August. We don't get special dispensation because they are parked, since they COULD go out at any time.
> 
> I guess my point is: you are not really any different, so the fact that companies will even write a policy for hybrid use is quite a gift in itself.


Lets face it, this is a complicated system. I would argue that my risk is lower because it's my car. I would be more risk adverse to an issue than most who don't own their cars or trucks. Most taxi's take chances I would never do with my own car. Also I am not sure what professional training gives you that I don't possess already. (Not saying that's the same for everyone)

What I would like insurance companies do for TNC drivers is offer a meter in the car that records the activity of the driver while their app is on. Then give them a month by month rate based on the driving they did. You drive 60+ hours a week....you may be in higher than a commercial policy. You work like 20 well there will be savings against a commercial policy.

You base it on you pay your base policy and the tack on is TNC duties. The more you work...the more you pay. You can then easily factor that in to the cost of doing TNC duties. It would revolutionize the industry of insurance. They can even track how the driver performs driving like those dongles they put in for those who want discounts driving.

Tie it all in to a real time dashboard and you got a real slick system. They could even move it to commercial vehicles like yourself and you could benefit from a savings when your cars are sitting idle.


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## Mrpushpop

Right or Wrong.. most Uber drivers do not make enough to afford commercial insurance. If required to have it, and enforced, uber would die in that area. An Uber drivers only hope to stay legal is hybrid insurance as regulation catches up. I realize this puts companies like yours at a disadvantage and may not be fair. One way I keep driving, the other I don't. I suppose the reverse is true of your profits.


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## Actionjax

Tx rides said:


> I think ActionJax had his tongue firmly planted in his cheek.


Guess that's better than saying I have my head up my ass.


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## Tx rides

Actionjax said:


> Guess that's better than saying I have my head up my ass.


I like to think positively, AJ!!! Lol!


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## Just_in

Gemgirlla said:


> What's interesting is that the entire state of California, including the governor, legislature, public transportation commission, insurance commission, DMV, major of Los Angeles, major universities such as USC (who has an contract for Uber X drivers), etc. know that 1000s of Uber X and Lyft drivers are driving using their personal insurance coverage as well as Uber's policy. Don't you think if this was such a huge deal, they would have come up w/ an insurance policy that works for TNC drivers by now. They did require Uber to up the insurance they carry for the drivers. I haven't heard of anyone in California losing his/her insurance because of an accident and being unable to get insurance coverage. Have you?


True, Everyone else knows. Except your personal insurance carrier. July 15th that will be addressed. The only certainty is the driver will pay. If more insurance is needed.


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## Tx rides

Actionjax said:


> Lets face it, this is a complicated system. I would argue that my risk is lower because it's my car. I would be more risk adverse to an issue than most who don't own their cars or trucks. Most taxi's take chances I would never do with my own car. Also I am not sure what professional training gives you that I don't possess already. (Not saying that's the same for everyone)
> 
> What I would like insurance companies do for TNC drivers is offer a meter in the car that records the activity of the driver while their app is on. Then give them a month by month rate based on the driving they did. You drive 60+ hours a week....you may be in higher than a commercial policy. You work like 20 well there will be savings against a commercial policy.
> 
> You base it on you pay your base policy and the tack on is TNC duties. The more you work...the more you pay. You can then easily factor that in to the cost of doing TNC duties. It would revolutionize the industry of insurance. They can even track how the driver performs driving like those dongles they put in for those who want discounts driving.
> 
> Tie it all in to a real time dashboard and you got a real slick system. They could even move it to commercial vehicles like yourself and you could benefit from a savings when your cars are sitting idle.


I get your plan, and agree-I don't think it should be exclusive to "TNC" drivers. 
Technically, we are TNC drivers quite often. Uber is just a mobile dispatch ad reservation system. We have the capability, just rarely have the desire. That brings the risk to mind: since most runs are arranged before the car leaves the yard, our chauffeurs are not subject to the electronic distractions, which still begs the question: "why do so many Uberx drivers think their insurance should be lower"?
Regarding training-all of our drivers have many hours of training in veh before they actually hit the road, and The trainers, (my husband, and our lead) have professional training, Including offensive and evasive, and hold CDLs.


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## Tx rides

Mrpushpop said:


> Right or Wrong.. most Uber drivers do not make enough to afford commercial insurance. If required to have it, and enforced, uber would die in that area. An Uber drivers only hope to stay legal is hybrid insurance as regulation catches up. I realize this puts companies like yours at a disadvantage and may not be fair. One way I keep driving, the other I don't. I suppose the reverse is true of your profits.


Well, the same can be said for any small start up operator. We had to put a lot of skin in the game to get rolling, and believe me, there were days I felt like I should have just gone to Vegas! But I wouldn't have it any other way, we are accident free for the most part! We did have some serious damage done to our brand-new SUV by a giant buzzard!! Lol and we have been backed into by a few careless drivers at the hotels, and we had an evil tow truck company cut a serpentine belt on one of our SUVs at an apartment complex. But we opted to pay out-of-pocket for those damages to keep our rates low. They are not really horribly high in the first place. Definitely worth it


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## UberXtraordinary

LA Cabbie said:


> This one is very important. What would happen if you were driving uber but no passenger and God forbid you caused an accident?


What app? I'm not a Rideshare driver!


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## Tx rides

Mrpushpop said:


> Right or Wrong.. most Uber drivers do not make enough to afford commercial insurance. If required to have it, and enforced, uber would die in that area. An Uber drivers only hope to stay legal is hybrid insurance as regulation catches up. I realize this puts companies like yours at a disadvantage and may not be fair. One way I keep driving, the other I don't. I suppose the reverse is true of your profits.


When you think about it, similar arguments have been made about raising minimum-wage. Many companies have said that they cannot afford to pay more in wages. The common political response is: "if you cannot afford to be in business, perhaps you were doing something wrong and don't deserve to be in business".

I don't know that I necessarily agree with that, but it is widely excepted. I do agree that there is a certain level of expectations to run a business, and I also believe most of those expectations are too high thanks to politicians, but it appears that the public is perfectly fine with these increased costs, so perhaps these customers who have voted in all of the nanny state requirements should have to pay more for services. Just Sayin


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## Actionjax

Tx rides said:


> I get your plan, and agree-I don't think it should be exclusive to "TNC" drivers.
> Technically, we are TNC drivers quite often. Uber is just a mobile dispatch ad reservation system. We have the capability, just rarely have the desire. That brings the risk to mind: since most runs are arranged before the car leaves the yard, our chauffeurs are not subject to the electronic distractions, which still begs the question: "why do so many Uberx drivers think their insurance should be lower"?
> Regarding training-all of our drivers have many hours of training in veh before they actually hit the road, and The trainers, (my husband, and our lead) have professional training, Including offensive and evasive, and hold CDLs.


I think the positive side to this there are as many ride share drivers out there as there are commercial lively drivers. So you have doubled the population and that's a bigger force for change. Most wouldn't have gotten into this racket if they had to take on the same type of expenses that you have had to lay out.

I don't believe dogging the bullet is a long term solution for the industry, but I do think it should change the playing field for all drivers out there...Not just TNC. It just has to be the same type of work.

I hope that insurance companies will tale to this with some sort of tech to help with this sort of thing. I get it when you didn't know what's going on with drivers in the past...but we have tech now that's easy to implement that you can Taylor risk by driver in a category. Not just lump everyone in the same category.


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## DrJeecheroo

I use Geico. They seem pretty cool with me using uber.


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## Tx rides

DrJeecheroo said:


> I use Geico. They seem pretty cool with me using uber.


I don't know how you got that impression, they have made public statements about this. You should check and get confirmation


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## Tx rides

Actionjax said:


> I think the positive side to this there are as many ride share drivers out there as there are commercial lively drivers. So you have doubled the population and that's a bigger force for change. Most wouldn't have gotten into this racket if they had to take on the same type of expenses that you have had to lay out.
> 
> I don't believe dogging the bullet is a long term solution for the industry, but I do think it should change the playing field for all drivers out there...Not just TNC. It just has to be the same type of work.
> 
> I hope that insurance companies will tale to this with some sort of tech to help with this sort of thing. I get it when you didn't know what's going on with drivers in the past...but we have tech now that's easy to implement that you can Taylor risk by driver in a category. Not just lump everyone in the same category.


Agreed, but would you please quit calling this rideshare? It makes me have a facial tic


----------



## DrJeecheroo

I will do that. Thanks for that heads-up. BTW I can't tell which actress that is on you're avator. Is that Carol Lombard?


----------



## gman

Mrpushpop said:


> Exactly! I was in an accident 10 months ago that was the other persons fault (I was not driving for Uber). Police took 15 minutes to show up, no one stopped to be a witness despite heavy traffic, and we were ordered to move our cars out of the street by a passing firetruck. Thank God I took personal pictures of the scene before we moved the cars or the police would not of known anything by the time they showed up. The other driver got ticketed and her insurance company still fought mine. 6 months later I finally got my check in the mail. Apparently when insurance companies both refuse their driver was at fault it goes to arbitration and your case waits in a very long line. At NO point during all of that was I asked anything about ride share. Even if I would of had a Uber card in my window, that is not proof I was ubering. I could be off duty, I could just like the logo, My dad could drive for Uber and I support him so I put a symbol on my car.
> 
> All that being said, I do hope for hybrid style insurance for our personal policies. It would make me feel more at ease as a driver, and peace of mind would be a wonderful thing. At the same time, it needs to be affordable since Uber rates are at a low.


I second this. Most traffic accidents are fender benders, you just pull over to the side of the road and handle your business. If I got in an accident with the trade dress showing and online with Uber, I would pull over and confidently present my personal insurance card to the other person. They aren't going to know how it all works, they just want to get paid (assuming it was my fault). Even if they noticed the trade dress and asked about it, I'm pretty sure all I would have to say is look, the Uber insurance is crap, if you want to get paid it needs to go through my personal insurance with no mention of Uber. I'll bet 99 out of 100 people are going to go okay, no problem. Now if it's only a few thousand dollars or less to repair their car, I will just pay for it out of my pocket. That avoids all hassles with insurance. But I realize most Uber drivers don't have a pot to piss in so this will not be an option for most.


----------



## Actionjax

Tx rides said:


> Agreed, but would you please quit calling this rideshare? It makes me have a facial tic


I only call it that because this is a new term for what could be called "Bandit Taxi" "*********" amongst others. Helps others understand who are sold on the idea of what Uber an Lyft calls it. But what's in a name, it's all the same crap...just packaged in a nicer looking box...content is the same.

It's al about the marketing right.


----------



## Tx rides

Actionjax said:


> I only call it that because this is a new term for what could be called "Bandit Taxi" "*********" amongst others. Helps others understand who are sold on the idea of what Uber an Lyft calls it. But what's in a name, it's all the same crap...just packaged in a nicer looking box...content is the same.
> 
> It's al about the marketing right.


What's in the name was an intentionally misleading campaign ;-)


----------



## Tx rides

DrJeecheroo said:


> I will do that. Thanks for that heads-up. BTW I can't tell which actress that is on you're avator. Is that Carol Lombard?


Eek! That is me!


----------



## Courageous

EdMoney said:


> I just purchased a commercial rideshare policy through Geico for $140 a month... Hopefully the roll this out nationwide soon.


That's damned cheap!

What's to keep the traditional commercial policy holder from carrying such a policy and abandoning the commercial policy ? Hmmm... and let the regulations begin to lighten off the back of the traditional livery service provider. It's about time!


----------



## UberXtraordinary

Tx rides said:


> I don't know how you got that impression, they have made public statements about this. You should check and get confirmation


Don't do that. Never bring it up again. Let Geiko bring it up next time. You may have found one cool agent, but Geiko will drop you. They will get their shit together eventually, probably this year. Be careful out there until they do.


----------



## observer

TeleSki said:


> There was an accident in my area a couple weeks ago that was in the paper. Had a picture of the car, and you could see the trade dress in the windshield. Headline was something like, "Possible Uber driver involved on accident".


http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...in-Costa-Mesa-5-Injured-Police-289726211.html


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## UberXtraordinary

observer said:


> http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...in-Costa-Mesa-5-Injured-Police-289726211.html


Repeat after me, "we need to level the playing field!" As if rideshare is somehow the monopoly here.


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## Tx rides

UberXtraordinary said:


> Don't do that. Never bring it up again. Let Geiko bring it up next time. You may have found one cool agent, but Geiko will drop you. They will get their shit together eventually, probably this year. Be careful out there until they do.


That is some really crappy advice. If the policy he carries has livery exclusion, he's already in full violation and can be dropped instantly


----------



## Tx rides

UberXtraordinary said:


> Repeat after me, "we need to level the playing field!" As if rideshare is somehow the monopoly here.


RIDESHARE-really? I don't know why people continue to refer to this as rideshare.


----------



## UberXtraordinary

Tx rides said:


> That is some really crappy advice. If the policy he carries has livery exclusion, he's already in full violation and can be dropped instantly


I agree, so I'm confused. How was my crappy advice when I wrote basically the same thing you did?


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## Tx rides

UberXtraordinary said:


> I agree, so I'm confused. How was my crappy advice when I wrote basically the same thing you did?


The crappy advice was telling him to ignore it


----------



## Actionjax

Tx rides said:


> RIDESHARE-really? I don't know why people continue to refer to this as rideshare.


Because we are all sharing taking the Taxi industry for a ride. (Oh wait what do you mean that's not what it is)


----------



## Tx rides

Actionjax said:


> Because we are all sharing taking the Taxi industry for a ride. (Oh wait what do you mean that's not what it is)


Like I said, that term gives me a facial tic. For more than a year I listened to morons in the city Council referred to this as "ridesharing "truly believing that these were people carpooling.And these are the idiots who put regulations on companies like mine. Uber knew all along that would be the end result, that is why they purposely continued to use that term.

What they should call the x drivers is "high risk investors" ;-)


----------



## Actionjax

Tx rides said:


> Like I said, that term gives me a facial tick. For more than a year I listened to morons in the city Council referred to this as "ridesharing "truly believing that these were people carpooling.And these are the idiots who put regulations on companies like mine. Uber knew all along that would be the end result, that is why they purposely continued to use that term.
> 
> What they should call the x drivers is "high risk investors" ;-)


I think regardless of what it is called people will still do it. Bandit cabs have been around for years. Uber is trying to legitimize it and my hope is in the process reduces operating costs and increase service quality to the industry overall. Put some of the owners on business owners to regulate themselves to a standard and not the governments. Since when has a government agency run a productive and lean business model. They only know red tape.


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## observer

Tx rides said:


> Like I said, that term gives me a facial tick. For more than a year I listened to morons in the city Council referred to this as "ridesharing "truly believing that these were people carpooling.And these are the idiots who put regulations on companies like mine. Uber knew all along that would be the end result, that is why they purposely continued to use that term.
> 
> What they should call the x drivers is "high risk investors" ;-)


Here's one view on "sharing" economy.

http://www.cato-unbound.org/2015/02/13/avi-asher-schapiro/sharing-economy-propaganda


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## Tx rides

Actionjax said:


> I think regardless of what it is called people will still do it. Bandit cabs have been around for years. Uber is trying to legitimize it and my hope is in the process reduces operating costs and increase service quality to the industry overall. Put some of the owners on business owners to regulate themselves to a standard and not the governments. Since when has a government agency run a productive and lean business model. They only know red tape.


If they are "legitimate" they are a livery service. I don't like a lot of regulation either, but the regs should be the SAME, there should be no special dispensation because they called the model something it isn't. That's my beef. They are skirting safety and insurance regulations, and those are the regs I do fully support even though they are costly.


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## Tx rides

observer said:


> Here's one view on "sharing" economy.
> 
> http://www.cato-unbound.org/2015/02/13/avi-asher-schapiro/sharing-economy-propaganda


Great article! The number of people, Internet published "economists" included, who parrot this term is mind boggling. It may FEEL like sharing with reduced rates, but it isn't. It is a multi BILLION dollar business which is shifting tax, labor, maintenance and inventory to people who accepted the term as something "innovative". It's street hail from a distance, or on demand sedan service where users get to see the dispatch screen. Nothing is new about people booking a car, Uber just made people expect more for less, and once they can't deliver on that promise they will reinvent the model, or cash out with a boat load of money. Unlike companies like ours, they won't have to figure out how to sell off their fleet, they will let drivers worry about that


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## Bart McCoy

hybrdi insurance is around the corner
Eerie was first, but now there are several companies offering it. It will spread to the west coast before you know it
It gets to where I am in March


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## Tx rides

Bart McCoy said:


> hybrdi insurance is around the corner
> Eerie was first, but now there are several companies offering it. It will spread to the west coast before you know it
> It gets to where I am in March


In many states this change would be mandatory since they don't allow personal policies to cover commercial use. That's why new policies must be written. It is not that insurance companies have "failed to keep up" as many imply. The problem is, Heyride/Sidecar/Lyft then Uber released a beta product without having supported infrastructure.


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## Tx rides

UberXtraordinary said:


> Don't do that. Never bring it up again. Let Geiko bring it up next time. You may have found one cool agent, but Geiko will drop you. They will get their shit together eventually, probably this year. Be careful out there until they do.


Ummm - if his policy has a livery exclusion, he is already a candidate for cancellation at the time of an accident. Exclusions don't say "the use of this vehicle for livery service voids this policy IF WE FIND OUT ABOUT IT" - drivers should refrain from thinking about who will find out, and worry more about the fact that they are effectively driving uncovered. Just as, when leaving a bar drunk, the real concern SHOULD be what happens if you are in an accident, not what happens if you are arrested. Unfortunately since so many people don't worry about the accident, the arrest threat had to grow ten fold.

Look, aside from the fact that you are human, and can make mistakes and should be financially responsible for them, we live in a very litigious world, and as a commercial provider, you are a bigger target. If you are earning hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, and have assets which can cover your loss, then I'm sure you have a good plan. On the other hand, if you are barely getting by, an accident in which you are at fault can destroy all chances of financial recovery. I know of few jobs worth that sacrifice.


----------



## Rich Brunelle

Bob Smith said:


> How do you keep up with expenses when your paying for insurance, gas, maintenance etc? are wouldnt that lower ur costs to LESS then minimum wage?


Yes, many drivers are earning well below minimum wage because Uber has cut our rates by so much.


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## rlb28

As someone in the insurance business i would say the biggest worry isn't having your policy cancelled, it's having a claim not covered because u r using a personal auto in a business manner. If there is an injury or loss and the claim is denied u will likely be sued. Having said that, there is a hybrid insurance in Texas and other states that became effective last week. I can't say much more due to the terms and conditions on this site, but I have an inbox...


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## CardinalFanSPI

Depending on your insurance carrier and the state in which you live, your standard personal policy MAY actually be sufficient for use with Uber. If you're only driving part-time and you're not trying to make Uber your full-time employment, your personal policy is enough under at least one of the major carriers.


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## Rich Brunelle

Presently the attempt to fill any gaps in insurance coverage is due to come on line in the immediate future. But, it will be at our expense not Uber's and will cost us per mile. We already cannot earn even minimum wage with the Ride-Hails and they have plans of adding additional expense to the drivers without compensation to support it.


----------



## CardinalFanSPI

If it gets to the point that you feel you can't do it anymore, then don't. It seems pretty cut and dry, to me. If someone is trying to make Uber their full-time income, I'd call that person foolish. In my market, Uber is brand new and fares are still reasonable, especially given that most trips are going to be no more than four or five miles. I drive on Friday and Saturday nights from a small downtown area and am making an easy $200 per weekend (after Uber fees) driving for about six hours. It's a nice supplement to my full-time income from my day job, but if - or, when - the time comes that I'm not making a profit, I'll quit driving for Uber. No skin off of my back.


----------



## Tx rides

CardinalFanSPI said:


> Depending on your insurance carrier and the state in which you live, your standard personal policy MAY actually be sufficient for use with Uber. If you're only driving part-time and you're not trying to make Uber your full-time employment, your personal policy is enough under at least one of the major carriers.


Which state and carrier?


----------



## CardinalFanSPI

Tx rides said:


> Which state and carrier?


Illinois. State Farm. A friend had a conversation with their SF agent two weeks ago about possibly driving a few hours a week for Uber and was told that as long as they weren't trying to make it their full-time employment, a commercial policy would not be required and their personal policy would suffice and not be in danger of cancellation. They were told that SF is in the process of working out multi-use (or "hybrid", to use the word that gets thrown around here quite a bit) policies that would specifically address Uber / Lyft / Sidecar and remain affordable for the average customer.


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## Tx rides

Rich Brunelle said:


> Presently the attempt to fill any gaps in insurance coverage is due to come on line in the immediate future. But, it will be at our expense not Uber's and will cost us per mile. We already cannot earn even minimum wage with the Ride-Hails and they have plans of adding additional expense to the drivers without compensation to support it.


I think it will likely make "personal" insurance a little harder, or at least more costly to get if/when you opt to quit, too. Another concern across the industry: confirming that a driver really did stop driving for hire. There have been a few anecdotal cases where an insurance company has requested a sworn statement ("I swear I'll never do it again"), but they all realize this is not feasible in large numbers. But they also realize it has been standard practice for drivers to lie about the use of their vehicles.


----------



## Tx rides

CardinalFanSPI said:


> Illinois. State Farm. A friend had a conversation with their SF agent two weeks ago about possibly driving a few hours a week for Uber and was told that as long as they weren't trying to make it their full-time employment, a commercial policy would not be required and their personal policy would suffice and not be in danger of cancellation. They were told that SF is in the process of working out multi-use (or "hybrid", to use the word that gets thrown around here quite a bit) policies that would specifically address Uber / Lyft / Sidecar and remain affordable for the average customer.


I would take that for what it is worth: What one agent says is not legally binding. SF has made bold statements about their livery exclusion, which apparently exists in their policies. The policy is *ALL* that matters on judgement day. They were part of some of the insurance discussions I attended. They were not making exceptions per state, either. It does not matter if someone only does this part time, commercial use is commercial use at the time of an accident, and sorting out the "exact use" at the "exact time" would put a financial burden on the company (thus its customers), that's why all of these companies have reiterated their zero tolerance under regular personal policies. Just remember: if you are cancelled, it will be very hard to get affordable coverage elsewhere.


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## rlb28

Fwiw... I've read many statements saying that u won't be able to find insurance or affordable ins. if u r cancelled. Thst is simply not true. All your new ins co. wants is u to show them u had prior ins, they wont know if u were cancelled or left on your own free will. The main concern is having a claim denied.


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## CardinalFanSPI

rlb28 said:


> Fwiw... I've read many statements saying that u won't be able to find insurance or affordable ins. if u r cancelled. Thst is simply not true. All your new ins co. wants is u to show them u had prior ins, they wont know if u were cancelled or left on your own free will. The main concern is having a claim denied.


Correct, in most cases, but the argument would be, "How would your previous insurance have ended up being cancelled? If you kept your mouth shut and didn't say anything to your agent that made them cancel you, you obviously had an accident, which led to a denied claim", which would bring your last sentence into play.


----------



## 49matrix

EdMoney said:


> I just purchased a commercial rideshare policy through Geico for $140 a month... Hopefully the roll this out nationwide soon.


Much as I hate GEICO that does not sound like a bad deal. Questions:
- Is this policy in addition to your regular insurance and if it includes your personal driving does it cover to the minimum state requirements.
- I still have a loan left on my vehicle and the CU requires full coverage, would the Rideshare policy be acceptable in these circumstances?
- If you have an 'at fault accident' with a rider on board, would this policy cover everything?

Thanx!


----------



## Sean Huka

Metromile just went live today with their personal insurance offering that acknowledges Uber and provides personal time and Period 1 (app on) coverage. Looks interesting.


----------



## Actionjax

Sean Huka said:


> Metromile just went live today with their personal insurance offering that acknowledges Uber and provides personal time and Period 1 (app on) coverage. Looks interesting.


Now that's what I'm talking about. Good work on their part.


----------



## Just_in

Sean Huka said:


> Metromile just went live today with their personal insurance offering that acknowledges Uber and provides personal time and Period 1 (app on) coverage. Looks interesting.


From what I understand by reading up on this It's a Uber exclusive. If you drive for Lyft or Sidecar it won't cover you. Only Uber.


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## Sean Huka

Even if I drive for Lyft/Sidecar, at least I will get any miles driven with Uber subtracted from my bill. I'm paying >$1000 for an insurance policy that's completely in the dark about all ridesharing companies. The policy with Metromile would at least acknowledge Uber and provide coverage if I have Uber App On before I match with a rider. After I match with a rider I have coverage with Uber's regular commercial policy. Then when the ride ends I go back to Metromile. It's dynamic, which is cool.

The Lyft/Sidecar issue still remains...but I figure most of my trips are Uber and it's better to be hiding only the Lyft/Sidecar stuff from my insurer than the entire fact that I'm a rideshare driver at all which would seemingly put me at more risk for coverage.


----------



## @VACountryGUY

49matrix said:


> Much as I hate GEICO that does not sound like a bad deal. Questions:
> - Is this policy in addition to your regular insurance and if it includes your personal driving does it cover to the minimum state requirements.
> - I still have a loan left on my vehicle and the CU requires full coverage, would the Rideshare policy be acceptable in these circumstances?
> - If you have an 'at fault accident' with a rider on board, would this policy cover everything?
> 
> Thanx!


I bought a rideshare policy from GEICO a couple weeks ago and it covers everything. Full coverage and it replaces your personal insurance too. So you just need this one policy.


----------



## Ziggy

USAA just announced (yesterday) that they will offer "gap" (hybrid) insurance in Texas in May. Great news for those of us who are vets. We put a post on the USAA site right after they announced their Colorado pilot program, pointing out that there are 4X more military personnel in Texas ... and "poof" Texas is being rolled out too


----------



## Courageous

Ziggy said:


> USAA just announced (yesterday) that they will offer "gap" (hybrid) insurance in Texas in May. Great news for those of us who are vets. We put a post on the USAA site right after they announced their Colorado pilot program, pointing out that there are 4X more military personnel in Texas ... and "poof" Texas is being rolled out too


Awesome! I hope it is very affordable for you all


----------



## Bart McCoy

Sean Huka said:


> Metromile just went live today with their personal insurance offering that acknowledges Uber and provides personal time and Period 1 (app on) coverage. Looks interesting.


sorry if I sound like an ass, but I just keep it real
looks like metromile will cover with app off, and app on, UP until the rider gets into the car
at that point Uber takes over, and metromile provide no further insurance correct?

now.....no matter how unethical, but the general rule that most people have been doing is....no matter if the app is on or off, if we get into an accident with NO rider, we dont work for Uber......
seems like a waste of money of money, except of course for ethical reasons of doing things the right way.even if you get into an accident, and metromile covers, you are still supposed to tell your insurance company that you were in an accident. Now since you're being so ethical to get metromile, are you going to tell your personal insurance company that you were technically riding around for commercial profit because your app was on?

if Uber paid more, nobody would have a problem of spending all this extra money for insurance


----------



## Sean Huka

Metromile replaces your current personal car insurance and could end up being cheaper. I don't think they expect people to pay MORE for Metromile instead of StateFarm/Progressive/Allstate. It's the same coverage with more peace of mind at a better price.

That's why I know people who signed up and may sign up myself.


----------



## Godric

Why wouldn't you tell Metromile...your (personal) insurance company? Since you are plugged in they might know before you call them.

Metromile covers you before you have excepted a pax...Uber covers from time you accept until you end the ride...Then back to Metromile.

Uber covers drivers with $1 million of insurance when they're on the job, but they still have to buy personal car insurance even if they hardly drive off-the-job. But now, Metromile and Uber have developed a seamless personal/commercial per-mile car insurance plan for Uber drivers that uses a cellular gadget that plugs into their vehicle's diagnostic port. It connects with Uber to recognize when drivers are working and are covered by Uber's insurance so it only charges them for miles they drive for personal use.

Metromile and Uber's partnership could drastically reduce car insurance prices for drivers who mostly drive professionally. Initially, the insurance will be available in California, Washington, and Illinois.


----------



## KevinW

EdMoney said:


> I just purchased a commercial rideshare policy through Geico for $140 a month... Hopefully the roll this out nationwide soon.


Where do you reside? california? GEICO does not offer any ridesharing insurance in CA as far as I researched... 
Thank you for your reply in advance.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Sean Huka said:


> Metromile replaces your current personal car insurance and could end up being cheaper. I don't think they expect people to pay MORE for Metromile instead of StateFarm/Progressive/Allstate. It's the same coverage with more peace of mind at a better price.
> 
> .


Okay I read it wrong then. Thought it was in addition to your car insurance and they simply covered the gap (from app on until ride accept) Not sure if its cheaper than regular private insurance though (normal ones that ban livery) because you pay per mile. If i drove 2,000 in one month im paying more,than I would if I had regular insurance.

But basically Metromile still is simply the ethical way saying "i dont work for uber"(if no pax in car).



Godric said:


> Why wouldn't you tell Metromile...your (personal) insurance company? Since you are plugged in they might know before you call them.
> 
> Metromile covers you before you have excepted a pax...Uber covers from time you accept until you end the ride...Then back to Metromile.
> 
> Uber covers drivers with $1 million of insurance when they're on the job, but they still have to buy personal car insurance even if they hardly drive off-the-job. But now, Metromile and Uber have developed a seamless personal/commercial per-mile car insurance plan for Uber drivers that uses a cellular gadget that plugs into their vehicle's diagnostic port. It connects with Uber to recognize when drivers are working and are covered by Uber's insurance so it only charges them for miles they drive for personal use.
> 
> Metromile and Uber's partnership could drastically reduce car insurance prices for drivers who mostly drive professionally. Initially, the insurance will be available in California, Washington, and Illinois.


Not sure how it reduces insurance prices. Metromile goes by the mile, but the other hybrid ones ive seen dont. So again, if i drive 4,000 miles in one month...


----------



## 20yearsdriving

California livery insurance 750.000 = 4200 per year give or take 12 bucks per day
Anyone who thinks it not affordable it's crazy , insurance is not the problem it's UBER'S cheap rate , it pushes its drivers to the brink they have to skimp any way they can. I don't think saving a few bucks a day will make any difference making a lot more money will


----------



## Actionjax

20yearsdriving said:


> California livery insurance 750.000 = 4200 per year give or take 12 bucks per day
> Anyone who thinks it not affordable it's crazy , insurance is not the problem it's UBER'S cheap rate , it pushes its drivers to the brink they have to skimp any way they can. I don't think saving a few bucks a day will make any difference making a lot more money will


Here in Canada Comercial insurance is between 600 - 800 per month. Not good for UberX


----------



## Bart McCoy

20yearsdriving said:


> California livery insurance 750.000 = 4200 per year give or take 12 bucks per day
> Anyone who thinks it not affordable it's crazy , insurance is not the problem it's UBER'S cheap rate , it pushes its drivers to the brink they have to skimp any way they can. I don't think saving a few bucks a day will make any difference making a lot more money will


Except if you only uber Friday and Saturdays then it's not $12/day.more like $40,and you don't make as much because only doing it part time. $40 could be 10 min fare trips a day...

Cheap is more like $1500-2500/year


----------



## Tx rides

Bart McCoy said:


> sorry if I sound like an ass, but I just keep it real
> looks like metromile will cover with app off, and app on, UP until the rider gets into the car
> at that point Uber takes over, and metromile provide no further insurance correct?
> 
> now.....no matter how unethical, but the general rule that most people have been doing is....no matter if the app is on or off, if we get into an accident with NO rider, we dont work for Uber......
> seems like a waste of money of money, except of course for ethical reasons of doing things the right way.even if you get into an accident, and metromile covers, you are still supposed to tell your insurance company that you were in an accident. Now since you're being so ethical to get metromile, are you going to tell your personal insurance company that you were technically riding around for commercial profit because your app was on?
> 
> if Uber paid more, nobody would have a problem of spending all this extra money for insurance


I know, I know...I'm a broken record (hey I'm a little OCD, what can I say?) but... the arrogance/ignorance of this company is mind blowing. For some reason, so many "app technology" companies believe an app provides some invisible shield from well known expenses, risks, general business demands.

There are just certain expenses in this business, (well, any business!) If you scrimp to make quick cash, it rarely pays off in the end. That includes labor, insurance, training, etc.

This morning (EARLY, I might add!!) we had a call for a quote for a transfer from the outskirts of Austin to another remote location. The drive time would be 3 hours, AT LEAST. We quoted them 3 hours, and they gasped, and said they were going to call around, we suggested Super Shuttle, which would still be fairly expensive because of the location.

What I *wanted* to say (yes, I do bite my tongue! ) was this:

_"Why so expensive? Well: This vehicle will drive over countless roofing nails en route to your location. If a tire blows out, we will have another vehicle on site quickly to avoid delay for your trip. The driver will be among more than a few hundred vehicles, all traveling at high speeds, most driving with distractions. Your driver is fully trained to sense and avoid danger. Even so, if the vehicle is in an accident before arriving at your destination, another vehicle will be sent, because our full coverage insurance allows us to keep the operation running 24x7.

Your chauffeur, AND vehicle will arrive 'photo ready' for your event. The interior and exterior will be spotless, as will your chauffeur's suit. Your chauffeur will know the area, traffic delays, etc. He/she will be able to answer questions about landmarks. He/she will work with your event coordinator to stage as needed, loading guests, gifts, etc as required.

We are not willing to compromise those commitments, which are fully covered with our rates. If you don't require such service, there are other services available with lower rates because they do NOT offer such guarantees. "_

Now, our service level may not be required for many traveler. That's fine, there are cheaper services. We recommend Super Shuttle regularly. I have no disdain for the thrifty consumer. I too am thrifty! I like to help the cheap passengers out, who knows - one day they may be able to afford our service, I want them to remember us!

The problem with Uber is they have sold a higher level of service and accountability than they pay for. Robbing Peter to pay Paul always ends badly.


----------



## scrurbscrud

20yearsdriving said:


> California livery insurance 750.000 = 4200 per year give or take 12 bucks per day
> Anyone who thinks it not affordable it's crazy , insurance is not the problem it's UBER'S cheap rate , it pushes its drivers to the brink they have to skimp any way they can. I don't think saving a few bucks a day will make any difference making a lot more money will


There IS a real easy and simple solution to this problem with ride share companies. MAKE the drivers get commercial insurance and PASS the safe ride fee to them. This would more more than enough to cover the costs for MANY if not most drivers. It would more than easily pay for my premium and then some. Any serious part timers should be doing at least 40 fares a weekend, X 4.3 (the number of weeks in a month) would cover at least half the cost for them as well.

The only question is WHY they don't and prefer to leave drivers hanging. I don' care to be left hanging. The cost is a legit cost of doing the gig if you have any sense at all.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

scrurbscrud said:


> There IS a real easy and simple solution to this problem with ride share companies. MAKE the drivers get commercial insurance and PASS the safe ride fee to them. This would more more than enough to cover the costs for MANY if not most drivers. It would more than easily pay for my premium and then some. Any serious part timers should be doing at least 40 fares a weekend, X 4.3 (the number of weeks in a month) would cover at least half the cost for them as well.
> 
> The only question is WHY they don't and prefer to leave drivers hanging. I don' care to be left hanging. The cost is a legit cost of doing the gig if you have any sense at all.


I asure you customers are happy to pay a bit more for a fully insured ride


----------



## Actionjax

20yearsdriving said:


> I asure you customers are happy to pay a bit more for a fully insured ride


Unfortunately that's not the case up here. Uber has put up a 5 million policy that covered everything but the driver. And customers only case that they and the people around them are fine. Drivers well no one is going to pay more some are. That's our problem.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Bart McCoy said:


> Except if you only uber Friday and Saturdays then it's not $12/day.more like $40,and you don't make as much because only doing it part time. $40 could be 10 min fare trips a day...
> 
> Cheap is more like $1500-2500/year


That is true , just today I got coverage for a second vehicle it took 9 days my agent said the underwriter is flooded with new insurance policies 
They must be UBER drivers getting new coverage this is good for all in transportation , we "spread " the risk and cost there for lowering rates across the board my first policy was 9200.00 in 2006 4200 in 2014 ( town car ) now 4600 ( suburban ) 
Maybe in the near future the will be even lower


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Actionjax said:


> Unfortunately that's not the case up here. Uber has put up a 5 million policy that covered everything but the driver. And customers only case that they and the people around them are fine. Drivers well no one is going to pay more some are. That's our problem.


I drove many years witn out insurance I get it , hopefully things change up there 
Here is lawsuit capital we can loose our asses in a small wreck even if it's not your fault , even with good insurance in some cases


----------



## zandor

TNCs are pretty much rearranging the for-hire car business, so why should insurance keep following the old model? The current pay $X per month scheme for insurance got started because there was no better way to handle it. Risk to an insurance company is pretty strongly correlated to using a vehicle, so why shouldn't TNC drivers have pay per use commercial insurance? The apps can record all the data needed to support charging for insurance based on time and/or distance. I think it should work like this:

1. No more SRF or TNC-sponsored insurance. In theory rates should go up to compensate, but there's that UberX v. Lyft rate war and they're trying to kill the cab companies so instead they just won't cut them again quite as soon...
2. Drivers choose between traditional monthly insurance and pay per use insurance for their TNC driving.
3. Insurance companies are permitted to offer personal + commercial use policies for passenger vehicles. The State "encourages" insurers to offer such policies and makes sure a decent number of options are available including both commercial only and commercial + personal use policies.
4. Driver picks insurer.
5. The State requires TNCs to provide usage data to the insurance company and pay the insurance charges out of driver earnings when drivers select pay per use insurance. Usage data would include time and distance with app on and no pax, time and distance from acceptance to pickup, and time and distance with pax in the car.
6. Pay per use charges would be based on a mix of app on, heading to pickup, and pax in car time/distance with different rates allowed for each period.
7. You have one policy and one insurer, so there are no who pays shenanigans if you have a claim beyond the usual who was at fault question that we really can't get rid of.


----------



## scrurbscrud

20yearsdriving said:


> I asure you customers are happy to pay a bit more for a fully insured ride


They don't care about me nor does Uber nor do I expect them to.


----------



## Ziggy

Just secured my Texas Commercial BlackCar Insurance ... I'm hitting the Uber road again. ATX airport has inked a deal with Uber; and my assets are protected 24/7.


----------



## TheInsuranceGuy1776

Hello Everyone,


Let me start out by telling everyone that I am an insurance agent. I work for a brokerage that specializes in public livery and hopefully can help clear up some of the confusion. As far as I understand it, no personal insurance policy at this time will cover ride-share drivers. As soon as you accept money for transporting people, the personal policy becomes void and will not cover you, your vehicle, your passengers, the damage to other peoples property, and leave you liable! I have read over Uber's insurance policy and again as I interpret it, I would not be comfortable using it myself. What scares me the most is (pulled directly from Uber's application to the PaPUC), "During the time that an Operator is available but between trips, most personal auto insurance will provide coverage,"..."This policy is contingent to a Operator's personal insurance policy, meaning it will only pay if the personal auto insurance completely declines or pays zero." That reads at best, very ambiguously. I can tell you that if your personal insurance finds out you are trying to file a claim and were on the clock...you will be left high and dry. Most rideshare drivers I speak to are doing this as a moonlight type job to make a few extra bucks. To me, that means that they need their vehicle for other activities as well, like a day job or taking the kids to school. If you have a claim and are left without a vehicle because two insurance companies are playing hot potato with your insurance policy, that will do you no good.



The way I see it there are a few options:


Roll the dice. Hope you never have a claim. 

This is not the way to do business. You need the coverage. Your family needs the coverage. Your passengers need the coverage. If you have a serious claim, you the driver can be held liable and you can bet your bottom dollar you will be named in the suit. Successful or not, it will cost you money and time.


Purchase a Commercial Auto Policy

This would be the equivalent of the type of policy a taxi or limo driver carries. It will cover you, your passengers, your property and damage to other peoples property. This type of policy, while extensive in its coverage, can be very costly and for a part time driver, can offset the benefit of rideshare driving in the first place. 


Purchase a Hybrid Policy

As of earlier this month our agency is offering a policy by an A rated insurance carrier, that will offer coverage for rideshare drivers both on and off the clock. It will cover you before the app is turned on, while on duty, after the app is turned off, when your vehicle is parked in your driveway, when you are taking the kids to soccer practice and on the way home from the grocery store. The best part is....it is affordable! While it will be more expensive than a traditional personal auto policy it will still be more affordable than a commercial policy and offer the same type of protection. At this point in time it only being offered in Pennsylvania but in the coming months we will be writing in: Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Wisconsin, Wyoming.


If you would like more information on this new product or just questions in general, please PM or email me with your contact information and I would be happy to continue this conversation. I will be posting this reply in a few different threads about ride-share insurance.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Thanks for confirmation of facts.

Can you give a very general idea of annual cost for such policies? And more importantly, does the policy stay in first place i.e. primary at all times?


----------



## TheInsuranceGuy1776

In a word...no. The reason being is every policy is different. In commercial insurance the policy is based on loss runs (amount of claims paid out in a policy period). This policy will be rated closer to a personal policy which takes credit, driving history/points, garaging address, ect into account. Different amounts of coverage is required for different areas of operation. Some people need 35,000 B/I in coverage (Uber X) while some need 1 million B/I in coverage (Uber Black operating in Philly). I would not feel comfortable giving a ball park number for everyone. I can say that we just wrote an Uber X driver for 1900.00 and change for six months.


----------



## scrurbscrud

TheInsuranceGuy1776 said:


> In a word...no. The reason being is every policy is different. In commercial insurance the policy is based on loss runs (amount of claims paid out in a policy period). This policy will be rated closer to a personal policy which takes credit, driving history/points, garaging address, ect into account. Different amounts of coverage is required for different areas of operation. Some people need 35,000 B/I in coverage (Uber X) while some need 1 million B/I in coverage (Uber Black operating in Philly). I would not feel comfortable giving a ball park number for everyone. I can say that we just wrote an Uber X driver for 1900.00 and change for six months.


Does the policy take primary position?


----------



## TheInsuranceGuy1776

Yes it will. That is one of the features, you can carry one policy that covers you on an off the clock. If you have a claim you don't have to worry about lying to your insurance company and potentially any fraud that could arise.


----------



## Ziggy

@TheInsuranceGuy1776 (thanks for stating that you are an insurance agent ... which is very obvious due to the spammy self-promotion of your services).

There are existing Hybrid options in several states (albeit, not from your company). For example: GEICO (VA); USAA (CO); MetroMile (CA,IL) ... And I know that USAA will offer a hybrid policy in Texas starting in May. *Considering there are 6 pages in this thread, I am quiet certain that everyone knows the risks of driving for Uber, Lyft, etc with just their personal insurance. And (note) this forum was not created for vendors to come in and essential SPAM us with self-promotion ads for their respective companies. If you really had the intent of providing valuable info to the forum; then you should have done some research and listed a bunch of companies that do offer hybrid & commercial policies in several states ... rather than only listing your company's offerings.

BTW - I am not an insurance agent and even if I were I wouldn't hijack someone else's forum for self promotion.

And I do have Commercial Livery Insurance coverage on my Uber vehicle ...


----------



## scrurbscrud

Ziggy said:


> @TheInsuranceGuy1776 (thanks for stating that you are an insurance agent ... which is very obvious due to the spammy self-promotion of your services).
> 
> There are existing Hybrid options in several states (albeit, not from your company). For example: GEICO (VA); USAA (CO); MetroMile (CA,IL) ... And I know that USAA will offer a hybrid policy in Texas starting in May. *Considering there are 6 pages in this thread, I am quiet certain that everyone knows the risks of driving for Uber, Lyft, etc with just their personal insurance. And (note) this forum was not created for vendors to come in and essential SPAM us with self-promotion ads for their respective companies. If you really had the intent of providing valuable info to the forum; then you should have done some research and listed a bunch of companies that do offer hybrid & commercial policies in several states ... rather than only listing your company's offerings.
> 
> BTW - I am not an insurance agent and even if I were I wouldn't hijack someone else's forum for self promotion.
> 
> And I do have Commercial Livery Insurance coverage on my Uber vehicle ...


I think it's good to hear factual information from any source, and also the option to check out his offerings, all sorely needed by many drivers.


----------



## TheInsuranceGuy1776

@ Ziggy...I can not promote other people products as I can be held liable for any misinformation. I am simply making clear that there are other options out there.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Ziggy said:


> Just secured my Texas Commercial BlackCar Insurance ... I'm hitting the Uber road again. ATX airport has inked a deal with Uber; and my assets are protected 24/7.


Good deal , high five


----------



## 20yearsdriving

TheInsuranceGuy1776 said:


> Yes it will. That is one of the features, you can carry one policy that covers you on an off the clock. If you have a claim you don't have to worry about lying to your insurance company and potentially any fraud that could arise.


That sound correct


----------



## Sly

EdMoney said:


> I just purchased a commercial rideshare policy through Geico for $140 a month... Hopefully the roll this out nationwide soon.


is that 140 on top of what you already pay for normal insurance or instead of?


----------



## Sly

If I get in an accident and it's my fault I'll just claim bankruptcy and become homeless just like I would if I lost my job with Uber.
Problem solved.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Ziggy said:


> @TheInsuranceGuy1776 (thanks for stating that you are an insurance agent ... which is very obvious due to the spammy self-promotion of your services).
> 
> There are existing Hybrid options in several states (albeit, not from your company). For example: GEICO (VA); USAA (CO); MetroMile (CA,IL) ... And I know that USAA will offer a hybrid policy in Texas starting in May. *Considering there are 6 pages in this thread, I am quiet certain that everyone knows the risks of driving for Uber, Lyft, etc with just their personal insurance. And (note) this forum was not created for vendors to come in and essential SPAM us with self-promotion ads for their respective companies. If you really had the intent of providing valuable info to the forum; then you should have done some research and listed a bunch of companies that do offer hybrid & commercial policies in several states ... rather than only listing your company's offerings.
> 
> BTW - I am not an insurance agent and even if I were I wouldn't hijack someone else's forum for self promotion.
> 
> And I do have Commercial Livery Insurance coverage on my Uber vehicle ...


He is light footed & agile nothing wrong with that , most agents won't take the time to even talk to you
Still do diligence


----------



## Sydney Uber

LA Cabbie said:


> Part of the reason cabs is so expensive is that we pay $500 a month for commercial insurance. If you get in a accident your personal insurance would dump you because you committed fraud for using your vehicle for what effectively is commercial purposes.
> 
> And if they ever find out you are a ride share driver they will either warn you or just quickly terminate your policy.
> 
> This one is very important. What would happen if you were driving uber but no passenger and God forbid you caused an accident?
> 
> You will be personally liable is the answer.


Insurance companies are building data bases of Rideshare drivers. Happy to take their premiums till a claim eventuates then denying the claim and terminating the policy. The problem then is avoiding the fraud charge and getting future cover.

Uber does not warn it's drivers this is within the power of insurance companies and their private non-commercial Ts & Cs.


----------



## Sydney Uber

MikeB said:


> No, if your insurance company cancels you for using personal insurance for commercial activities transporting pax for hire you won't be able to purchase insurance anymore and hence won't able to rent a car without insurance.
> Paying for you rides to Uber? Sure, go right ahead. Give this shit company more of your money!
> Drive for Uber while trying to cheat your personal insurance company all you want. Do you think I care for you?
> Wrong.
> I don't.
> Might as well go on the street corner selling drugs. Good money With your risk/reward assessment ratio that will be great job for you. Haha!


Have you seen his Avatar? @Actionjax = Bubble Head. But that is way too observant on my part - I call it the way I see it and he gets offended - we are only here to help.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Sydney Uber said:


> Insurance companies are building data bases of Rideshare drivers. Happy to take their premiums till a claim eventuates then denying the claim and terminating the policy. The problem then is avoiding the fraud charge and getting future cover.
> 
> Uber does not warn it's drivers this is within the power of insurance companies and their private non-commercial Ts & Cs.


In California that is true you can drive a actual taxicab to certain insurance agents they will insure you , knowing that the day you have an accident underwriter will cancell the policy it's free money for insurance companies


----------



## Actionjax

Sydney Uber said:


> Have you seen his Avatar? @Actionjax = Bubble Head. But that is way too observant on my part - I call it the way I see it and he gets offended - we are only here to help.


Trust me I only get offended to things I care about. Calling me a bubble head doesn't offend me. But for the sake of others on here figured we have enough idiots who like to sling stones and not provide much substance to what they say. If that's the path you want to choose be my guest. But I expected more from someone who likes to call himself professional.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

TheInsuranceGuy1776 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Let me start out by telling everyone that I am an insurance agent. I work for a brokerage that specializes in public livery and hopefully can help clear up some of the confusion. As far as I understand it, no personal insurance policy at this time will cover ride-share drivers. As soon as you accept money for transporting people, the personal policy becomes void and will not cover you, your vehicle, your passengers, the damage to other peoples property, and leave you liable! I have read over Uber's insurance policy and again as I interpret it, I would not be comfortable using it myself. What scares me the most is (pulled directly from Uber's application to the PaPUC), "During the time that an Operator is available but between trips, most personal auto insurance will provide coverage,"..."This policy is contingent to a Operator's personal insurance policy, meaning it will only pay if the personal auto insurance completely declines or pays zero." That reads at best, very ambiguously. I can tell you that if your personal insurance finds out you are trying to file a claim and were on the clock...you will be left high and dry. Most rideshare drivers I speak to are doing this as a moonlight type job to make a few extra bucks. To me, that means that they need their vehicle for other activities as well, like a day job or taking the kids to school. If you have a claim and are left without a vehicle because two insurance companies are playing hot potato with your insurance policy, that will do you no good.
> 
> The way I see it there are a few options:
> 
> Roll the dice. Hope you never have a claim.
> 
> This is not the way to do business. You need the coverage. Your family needs the coverage. Your passengers need the coverage. If you have a serious claim, you the driver can be held liable and you can bet your bottom dollar you will be named in the suit. Successful or not, it will cost you money and time.
> 
> Purchase a Commercial Auto Policy
> 
> This would be the equivalent of the type of policy a taxi or limo driver carries. It will cover you, your passengers, your property and damage to other peoples property. This type of policy, while extensive in its coverage, can be very costly and for a part time driver, can offset the benefit of rideshare driving in the first place.
> 
> Purchase a Hybrid Policy
> 
> As of earlier this month our agency is offering a policy by an A rated insurance carrier, that will offer coverage for rideshare drivers both on and off the clock. It will cover you before the app is turned on, while on duty, after the app is turned off, when your vehicle is parked in your driveway, when you are taking the kids to soccer practice and on the way home from the grocery store. The best part is....it is affordable! While it will be more expensive than a traditional personal auto policy it will still be more affordable than a commercial policy and offer the same type of protection. At this point in time it only being offered in Pennsylvania but in the coming months we will be writing in: Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Wisconsin, Wyoming.
> 
> If you would like more information on this new product or just questions in general, please PM or email me with your contact information and I would be happy to continue this conversation. I will be posting this reply in a few different threads about ride-share insurance.


Question will this insurance cover a ride for hire while not on UBER
Let's say a customer calls a drivers cell phone # with out uber app


----------



## 20yearsdriving

20yearsdriving said:


> Question will this insurance cover a ride for hire while not on UBER
> Let's say a customer calls a drivers cell phone # with out uber app


if so this may be a good solution for rate issue


----------



## Sly

DenverDiane said:


> What?
> My _personal_ policy from USAA allows me to drive with a ride share - it costs me $8 a month. This has been in the news for weeks now. How can you have missed this? Progressive in Pennsylvania does the same thing for Lyft. Geico does it in Virginia and Metromile does it in California (and possible a few other states ??). All those carriers have openly stated they are going to expand the coverage to other states as well.
> 
> All the above has been in the news for weeks now.
> Anyone who can use Google can verify the above.


Just checked Google has it in two states. Notify me when they have coverage in Florida.


----------



## TheInsuranceGuy1776

DenverDiane said:


> What?
> My _personal_ policy from USAA allows me to drive with a ride share - it costs me $8 a month. This has been in the news for weeks now. How can you have missed this? Progressive in Pennsylvania does the same thing for Lyft. Geico does it in Virginia and Metromile does it in California (and possible a few other states ??). All those carriers have openly stated they are going to expand the coverage to other states as well.
> 
> All the above has been in the news for weeks now.
> Anyone who can use Google can verify the above.


@ Denver Diane...I would suggest you do a little more research and compare the different products and find out exactly what is being offered. Insurance is extremely complicated at best. I just got off the phone with a USAA representative. The product that they are offering for the additional 6-8 dollars per month is a increase in your personal insurance that would cover you when you have the ride-share application on waiting, for a fair. If you are involved in a claim while on the clock, you still have to file that through the ride-share companies insurance. Per the USAA representative, that coverage is only being offered in Colorado, despite what the internet might say.


----------



## nikb

I'll note that the Progressive coverage in PA is actually a full commercial coverage, that is primary at all times. It's expensive. I just got back from my State Farm agent (who insures my other car, not used for ride-sharing), he told me he uses Lyft and Uber all the time, and he's been hounding his colleagues in higher positions in the company to offer hybrid policies.


----------



## scrurbscrud

TheInsuranceGuy1776 said:


> @ Denver Diane...I would suggest you do a little more research and compare the different products and find out exactly what is being offered. Insurance is extremely complicated at best. I just got off the phone with a USAA representative. The product that they are offering for the additional 6-8 dollars per month is a increase in your personal insurance that would cover you when you have the ride-share application on waiting, for a fair. If you are involved in a claim while on the clock, you still have to file that through the ride-share companies insurance. Per the USAA representative, that coverage is only being offered in Colorado, despite what the internet might say.


That was why I asked you if your insurance offering is always primary.

The USAA personal auto policy at least isn't voided by doing livery, which is probably a good establishment point. But those are not the only considerations with insurance for drivers.

If the personal auto insurance company takes what is essentially a 'hands off' position in what might be known as stages 1, 2 and 3 for their insurance, if there is an accident, there is no insurance company behind said driver because their primary personal insurance is off. They are left to deal with the other parties insurance company and Uber/Lyft on their own. Being in that position didn't interest me at all. No individual driver is equipped to do that.


----------



## @VACountryGUY

A few of my buddies that live in MD bought the GEICO hybrid policy and said it wasnt a bad deal. Something like $2000 for the year. One of them had to file a claim already. 

I just dont know why GEICO hasnt released it in more states. Ive been thinking about moving back home to TX, but they dont have one there yet and Progressive's policy was way too expensive.

Come on Gecko, STEP IT UP!


----------



## zMann

As far I know that Uber does not accept commercial
Insurance yet.


----------



## djino

zMann said:


> As far I know that Uber does not accept commercial
> Insurance yet.


Are you saying that Uber will not approve commercial insurance documents people send to them?

Can anyone else confirm?


----------



## zMann

djino said:


> Are you saying that Uber will not approve commercial insurance documents people send to them?
> 
> Can anyone else confirm?


Someone posted to this forum stated that Uber did not approve his commercial insurance.
I recommend you to contact Uber for further info before you buy any commercial insurance.


----------



## djino

zMann said:


> Someone posted to this forum stated that Uber did not approve his commercial insurance.
> I recommend you to contact Uber for further info before you buy any commercial insurance.


I don't understand the reasoning behind that, unless the document in question was expired or soon to be.

It's also better for Uber, as they wouldn't be contacted about any insurance claims.

Does Uber prefer it's drivers to be in breach of their personal policies.

Djino


----------



## zMann

djino said:


> I don't understand the reasoning behind that, unless the document in question was expired or soon to be.
> 
> It's also better for Uber, as they wouldn't be contacted about any insurance claims.
> 
> Does Uber prefer it's drivers to be in breach of their personal policies.
> 
> Djino


Uber wants the driver to carry a personal
Car insurance as it is required by uber policy.
Anyway there is a lot of upcoming changes and requirements from states regarding the Uber's insurance gap.


----------



## Rut Dog

@VACountryGUY said:


> I just dont know why GEICO hasnt released it in more states. Ive been thinking about moving back home to TX, but they dont have one there yet and Progressive's policy was way too expensive.
> 
> Come on Gecko, STEP IT UP!


Insurance is regulated at the state level where 50+ different insurance commissions (DC, PR, Guam, etc.) have to approve each new policy. Geico is headquartered in DC -- and they have launched in neighboring states of MD and VA where they no doubt have good relationships with regulators and familiarity with the local market.


----------



## Amie Cartwright

proth3us said:


> i would say "whats uber?" lol


I'm sorry, but that is so funny! Because so many people still say that and mean it.  good one, at 422am you made me giggle and snort a little.


----------



## @VACountryGUY

zMann said:


> Someone posted to this forum stated that Uber did not approve his commercial insurance.
> I recommend you to contact Uber for further info before you buy any commercial insurance.


I saw a post about Uber not accepting it, but it got cleared up. I know a bunch of people that have it and both Uber and Lyft accept it.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Amie Cartwright said:


> I'm sorry, but that is so funny! Because so many people still say that and mean it.  good one, at 422am you made me giggle and snort a little.


POST # 138 /Amie Cartwright: "Ahoy!" &
Welcome to the UP.Net
Forums from Dark Overnight in Marco
Island on Florida's Wild SSW Coast.

Well, be still my Bisonic Heart! You have
experienced "Chortling", a frequent event
for me, less so for The Haberdasher.

Hope You won't be a "One & Done" but Your Profile's Totality is confined to April 24th. Any chance of returning?

Please?


----------



## Courageous

@VACountryGUY said:


> I saw a post about Uber not accepting it, but it got cleared up. I know a bunch of people that have it and both Uber and Lyft accept it.


I cannot speak for Lyft but Uber definitely will NOT accept a commercial insurance policy for the UberX, XL and Select platform. UberBlack, SUV and Taxi are different, but for the UberX platforms (in Florida) they rejected my commercial insurance...flat out.. The only sense this makes is Uber not wanting to blurr the lines while they are trying to get the UberX platforms legal in Florida. They want no semblance of official black car or taxi.


----------



## Tara

Bob Smith said:


> How do you keep up with expenses when your paying for insurance, gas, maintenance etc? are wouldnt that lower ur costs to LESS then minimum wage?


----------



## Tara

Is so tru , I star driving for Uber for a week . Very disappointed. I have 2012 Mercedes 350 SUV , losty job won't to Mack feu $$$ in to I gained a job . They 
Pay nothing , UberSelect and they pay you uberX is no won to won't select they have trips for free $0.99 for miles . If you have a god car you will drive th for free. Al this god ads for Ubers Mack Deseret job lest individual as me to drive .


----------



## Driver TO

Tara said:


> How do you keep up with expenses when your paying for insurance, gas, maintenance etc? are wouldn't that lower ur costs to LESS then minimum wage?


Yes, that's my concern as well. See my thread at https://uberpeople.net/threads/how-...e-driving-uberx-in-toronto.21409/#post-312427 and go to today's post. I'm in a different market but have the same concern.


----------



## UberCemetery




----------



## 49matrix

Courageous said:


> I cannot speak for Lyft but Uber definitely will NOT accept a commercial insurance policy for the UberX, XL and Select platform. UberBlack, SUV and Taxi are different, but for the UberX platforms (in Florida) they rejected my commercial insurance...flat out.. The only sense this makes is Uber not wanting to blurr the lines while they are trying to get the UberX platforms legal in Florida. They want no semblance of official black car or taxi.


Bit slow in responding to your post but I'm in the Raleigh/Durham market in NC. Uber has no problem with me being commercial in UberX, in fact they were quite helpful in me acquiring it. Uber makes up it's own rules depending on where and who you are so don't expect any conformity, they twist the rules to their own $ benefit. The law of averages would dictate that this is eventually going to catch up with me in my market and at that point I'll go work for White Horse before I continue with Uber.


----------



## 49matrix

Tara said:


> Is so tru , I star driving for Uber for a week . Very disappointed. I have 2012 Mercedes 350 SUV , losty job won't to Mack feu $$$ in to I gained a job . They
> Pay nothing , UberSelect and they pay you uberX is no won to won't select they have trips for free $0.99 for miles . If you have a god car you will drive th for free. Al this god ads for Ubers Mack Deseret job lest individual as me to drive .


Post something we can understand and maybe someone will reply.


----------



## observer

Courageous said:


> I cannot speak for Lyft but Uber definitely will NOT accept a commercial insurance policy for the UberX, XL and Select platform. UberBlack, SUV and Taxi are different, but for the UberX platforms (in Florida) they rejected my commercial insurance...flat out.. The only sense this makes is Uber not wanting to blurr the lines while they are trying to get the UberX platforms legal in Florida. They want no semblance of official black car or taxi.


This may be because Uber will have to back pay drivers expenses if, drivers are ever classified employees.

It will be much cheaper for Uber to pay back prorated personal insurance (few hundred bucks) than full on commercial insurance (4 to 6 thousand dollars).

Multiplied by thousands of drivers, this would be a huge difference.


----------



## UberNorthStar

Mrpushpop said:


> you have no Pax you shut the phone off after the accident. My insurance agency asks dumb questions after an accident but never were you driving Uber during the time of accident


Did you remove_ all _trade dress from the car?? The other driver may notice.


----------



## 49matrix

Courageous said:


> I cannot speak for Lyft but Uber definitely will NOT accept a commercial insurance policy for the UberX, XL and Select platform. UberBlack, SUV and Taxi are different, but for the UberX platforms (in Florida) they rejected my commercial insurance...flat out.. The only sense this makes is Uber not wanting to blurr the lines while they are trying to get the UberX platforms legal in Florida. They want no semblance of official black car or taxi.


Uber's attitude towards commercial insurance seems to vary from State to State or city to city. In the Triangle area of NC, Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill I was actually assisted by Uber in getting commercial insurance. I found the agent and the policy but Uber instructed me how to handle it with the driver app. Go figure!


----------



## 49matrix

John T said:


> BE CAREFUL! In California your personal insurance will not cover you for collision if you have an accident. FURTHERMORE, despite what uber says, you Liability wont work either. You need to purchase commercial insurance. $4800 a year is the cheapest I found


From a personal point of view I agree with you 100%. However, Uber does not make it mandatory and many drivers are doing commercial business on their personal insurance and will probably continue to do so until they have an accident with a rider on board. Uber's umbrella liability policy for you, your car and any 3rd party damage IS NOT PRIMARY. They will cover the rider but you first have to claim on your personal policy and that's where the shit hits the fan. In almost all cases your policy will firstly deny the claim and then cancel your insurance. You are, after all, fraudulently using a personal policy for commercial purposes and they could prosecute but it's cheaper for them to deny and cancel. Then try getting commercial insurance and you'll find many companies will not accept you as a result of your insurance record and if you do find it it will be expensive to the point that it's not worth you while driving for Uber.


----------



## 49matrix

Mrpushpop said:


> As would I, The only situation I can see really screwing you over is an accident so bad you black out or are disabled. At that point you would not be able clean the scene and it could all be put in the police report.


If you have a pax on board and have an accident to which the police are called I would not suggest lying to the police. If you have your Uber signage still up and your phone on the Uber app they're going to figure it out especially if you're incapacitated. Lying to the police may put you in a position of being charged with fraud. Yes, commercial insurance is more expensive, especially if you have a newer car and have a not so good driving record but it still works out cheaper than if you have that accident. If you are willing to take the risk in order to make more money, that's up to you. I guess I'm lucky that my commercial policy is reasonably priced but I can sleep at night and drive without fear of the consequences of an accident.


----------



## 49matrix

Mrpushpop said:


> How would your insurance company know? If you have no Pax you shut the phone off after the accident. My insurance agency asks dumb questions after an accident but never were you driving Uber during the time of accident?


My daughter is an Insurance Adjuster and they have been asked to add new questions to put to their policy holders, one of which is "are you/were you driving for business purposes?" There are enough Uber and Lyft drivers on the road now that it has become necessary to do this.


----------



## Batboi

Does anyone know the insurance policy for Uber in Myrtle Beach, SC? I'm a new Uber driver, Im a good driver(never gotten in an accident in almost 15 years) but can't say the same for the tourists that are driving around me. I don't wanna get into an accident and then get left hanging by Uber AND my insurance company.


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## UberNorthStar

The Uber ins policy is the same across the states. Medical & property damage is covered for your pax & the other drivers. Uber does not kick in for your damages until after your personal policy pays zero or denies the claim.

Your personal ins may cancel your ins as you were drying a vehicle for hire, which is excluded in most policies.

Congrats on the good driving record! Check w/ GEICO or Progressive to see about a "rideshare" policy. 

JM2¢W


----------



## Dts08

Question...if you have commercial insurance do you still have to pay the safety fee?


----------



## UberNorthStar

Uber takes out the SRF automatically. No ands, ifs, or buts about it.

Take a look into the "Partnership Agreement" you agreed to & probably did not read. Uber has the SRF in there somewhere.

JM2¢W.


----------



## GreyBush

Geez, I am here because I was interested in Uber for part-time work, but googled uber + insurance.
So far, in Canada, the costs are too high with proper commercial insurance, wear & tear and over 5$/gal gas to consider it a viable part-time job.

Which is stupid - if Uber wants to be in Canada, they should cover the commercial insurance for us, have it factored in the price and the customer pays.... Just Like a Regular Taxi.
Then there's the issue of sales taxes (HST and Quebec) that Uber doesn't collect in the transaction.

When I buy an App on the Apple App store, or a perk within a game, Apple charges the sales tax for that purchase. Yet they are simply a middle-man between the game owner and myself.


----------



## superjtrdr

EdMoney said:


> I just purchased a commercial rideshare policy through Geico for $140 a month... Hopefully the roll this out nationwide soon.


Is that for full coverage? What kind of vehicle do you have?


----------



## DriverX

LA Cabbie said:


> Part of the reason cabs is so expensive is that we pay $500 a month for commercial insurance. If you get in a accident your personal insurance would dump you because you committed fraud for using your vehicle for what effectively is commercial purposes.
> 
> And if they ever find out you are a ride share driver they will either warn you or just quickly terminate your policy.
> 
> This one is very important. What would happen if you were driving uber but no passenger and God forbid you caused an accident?
> 
> You will be personally liable is the answer.


Yes if your stupid enough to tell them you were driving for Uber at the time. Why would you do that. I'm never driving for Uber unless I'm on a fare or en route to one and covered by Uber. Otherwise I'm parked or I am driving my car for personal reasons and therefor I am covered by my personal insurance. The insurance companies are making threats and trying to drop people so don't give them a reason.

The best solution would be for Uber to just cover the drivers out right all the time and weed out the drivers who aren't generating enough rev for the company to make it worth it for them. If a driver wants more than liability while they aren't on the clock they can pay extra.


----------



## CROWBOY

The problem is, you can't obtain commercial insurance in some places for rideshare. I know some of the companies will not drop you if you get into an accident while ubering on a personal policy. The question is, when does personal insurance cover. I tried to obtain commercial insurance and underwriting wouldn't do it. I did get it in writing after spending the better part of a day trying to sort it out. For my own personal policy, with same payouts as a commercial policy, it's ok for me to Uber. I'm covered while the app is on, I'm not covered the moment a passenger sets foot into my car. I've been with my insurance company for a long time and I have a clean driving record so who knows if that played into any consideration. Another thing to remember, some of these insurance companies are creating rideshare insurance products that work in conjuction with your personal policy. I wouldn't lie to your insurance company because you are committing fraud. Bitter cab companies could add your plate to a list and mail those lists to all the insurance companies. If you get into an accident with a passenger in the car, what do you think they're going to tell the cops? As for the medical, hospitals always try your personal health insurance first because they rather not deal with third party billing.


----------



## DriverX

I would only cover collision on my car if I had to because of a loan. You probably will get screwed by them even if it isn't your fault becasue they will try and pull the shared fault crap, anyway and unless the cars totaled a standard fender job or whatever is probably less than a lot of deductibles. The insurance biz is a scam, it always has been so get the least amount required IMO except for the UI motorist, get that. Just don't cause an accident and your good to go.

Does anyone drive on a leased vehicle? or is that like a total no no? I was wondering if people leased black or plus type cars because they could make enough more to justify it.


----------



## UberNorthStar

There are ppl who took out loans on new cars so they could drive for Uber. From my reading they told the loan officer the driving the car was for "personal use as insurance would not cover rideshare activities.


----------



## ksign

Truth & Facts said:


> If your insurance company ask you, "Do you drive for Uber?"
> 
> How will you respond to that simple question? You cannot play as a deaf or dumb, can you?


I would answer that this is private information.
Insurance is a service you pay, not police.


----------



## Sly

kaign said:


> I would answer that this is private information.
> Insurance is a service you pay, not police.


hmm could they refuse to sell insurance to someone who answered "I prefer not to answer that question."?
Is lying to your insurance company a crime?


----------



## ksign

Sly said:


> hmm could they refuse to sell insurance to someone who answered "I prefer not to answer that question."?
> Is lying to your insurance company a crime?


as well as you could go see another insurance company that dont breach your privacy.


----------



## UberNorthStar

Sly said:


> hmm could they refuse to sell insurance to someone who answered "I prefer not to answer that question."?
> Is lying to your insurance company a crime?


To the first question, insurance companies have the right to NOT sell to anyone. "I prefer not to answer that question," could be replied with, "If you will not answer my question, you will need to find another insurance company."

To the second question, one is committing insurance fraud if they Uber-drive on their personal policy and have not told the insurer. That is lying by omission in this layperson's opinion.


----------



## KMAV

If you have Erie insurance in your market. Check them out. I dropped State Farm here in Indy before they dropped me.


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## UberNorthStar

I am in TX. I do not qualify for USAAand was transferred to Liberty Mutual. Right now I am waiting for a call-back from the rep I spoke with.


----------



## phillipzx3

Tx rides said:


> Like I said, that term gives me a facial tick. For more than a year I listened to morons in the city Council referred to this as "ridesharing "truly believing that these were people carpooling.And these are the idiots who put regulations on companies like mine. Uber knew all along that would be the end result, that is why they purposely continued to use that term.
> 
> What they should call the x drivers is "high risk investors" ;-)


In Portland,Oregon, Uber and Lyft are no longer called "rideshare" by the city officials. They are now known as "unbranded taxi's."

They're also going to require them to carry the same level of coverage as cabs and Towncar. No more "period 1,2 or 3" garbage.

Goodbye to the "hobby" drivers. If you want to be a cab, you're going to pay for insurance....just like a cab.


----------



## phillipzx3

[QUOTE="CROWBOY, post: 402699, member: 16299" For my own personal policy, with same payouts as a commercial policy, it's ok for me to Uber. I'm covered while the app is on, I'm not covered the moment a passenger sets foot into my car. I've been with my insurance company for a long time and I have a clean driving record so who knows if that played into any consideration. Another thing to remember, some of these insurance companies are creating rideshare insurance products that work in conjuction with your personal policy. I wouldn't lie to your insurance company because you are committing fraud. Bitter cab companies could add your plate to a list and mail those lists to all the insurance companies. If you get into an accident with a passenger in the car, what do you think they're going to tell the cops? As for the medical, hospitals always try your personal health insurance first because they rather not deal with third party billing.[/QUOTE]

Bitter cab companies? Most "bitter" cab companies are only asking unbranded cabs ( let's stop with this "rideshare" nonsense) carry the same as they're required to carry.

I just dropped off at the airport. I had an Uber car dropping off next to me As we left PDX and headed back downtown, the first thing he did was pull his goober sign out of the window. Why? Because he knows full well if he gets in a wreck his insurance company will cancel him.

Most of these "hybrid" policies are worthless. The reason why insurance companies are in business is too make money, not pay out on a claim.

But you go a head and keep the dream alive. It'll come in handy. Especially when you end up in court with a lawsuit of a few million because your personal insurance got cancelled and Uber denied your claim as well.

"Ride sharing" for a living is about to get expensive. Then we'll see who's bitter when you get your first $500+ per month 1 million dollar insurance premium bill in the mail.


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## UberNorthStar

Uber drivers carry commercial liability insurance. Hybrid policies are personal policies that cover drivers during the time the app is on while waiting for notification of a rider.

Still have a problem?


----------



## Willzuber

Isn't it interesting that insurance companies have an angle in this. So you pay for a regular policy and you drive a friend and you are covered. You drive around with people who pay for your service and you are not covered. How is it that a pax is giving you money for this service mean you do not have coverage if you are in an accident? What sets the pax apart from a friend? Two people. Both could be injured by your negligence or that of another peep. One has coverage and the other does not. 

So answer this, you have a policy. You drive while intoxicated and you maim or kill anyone. Why would you have coverage? We have coverage if we drink and drive and kill somebody. Drive a peep paying for the ride and you don't have coverage. Hmmm Makes sense.


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## UberNorthStar

The difference is money and a person on the Uber app is doing it for profit. (Haha, I know.)


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## iBeatle71

Called more than 25 insurance brokers and companies. No one wants to insure me and my vehicle in Ontario. No one can provide OPCF 6A extension. (Permission to Carry Paying Passengers) All UBER Partners in Toronto and GTA work illegally. I haven't been involved in an accident but trying to make it as legal as possible and have no luck. I talked to one insurance company in Edmonton they were willing to help me to find some solution but can't do nothing for me as they do not insure Ontario drivers. Good luck to all Canadians. I will re post that message in few posts as I'm still looking for help and solution. (sorry about that)


----------



## phillipzx3

UberNorthStar said:


> Uber drivers carry commercial liability insurance. Hybrid policies are personal policies that cover drivers during the time the app is on while waiting for notification of a rider.
> 
> Still have a problem?


No they don't...at least not in Oregon. There's not one single insurance company that will cover you if you tell them you "Uber." Washington has (lame) Metromile coverage. But in Oregon....no way. Why do you thing the Uber/Lyft drivers yank their signs out of the window as they leave PDX airport. They don't want to take the chance...which goes to show that even these guys are smart enough to know they're walking on thin ice.

Uber in Oregon and you private insurance is WORTHLESS!


----------



## UberNorthStar

phillipzx3 said:


> Uber in Oregon and you private insurance is WORTHLESS!


I was not referring to run-of-the-mill personal auto insurance when I said "hybrid" insurance policies. In TX one runs the risk of cancellation of their personal policy if the company finds out one is TNC driving.

<09/15/15 EDIT: Liberty Mutual writes personal policies only. The policy would cover the "gap" in Stage 1 of Using the Utter app. The agent misunderstood me.>


----------



## GreyBush

I used to have commercial auto insurance in Quebec, Canada on my new Prius, for 4 years, average was 1400$/500$deduct per year for the most basic package (uninsured merchandise delivery) .

When I went regular/private it dropped to 700$ with zero $ deduct using same company as house insurance.
Also when I was commercial I needed liability and invalidity (that my employer now pays along with life insurance).

People I know here in Montreal that use Uber for the convenience - not really for cheaper.
A local software company has been making an Uber-like app for regular taxi companies that are 100% legit.
Google if you want : Montreal Gazette taxi diamond updates app with uber like functionalities

*Edit: FFF'ing SCARY:* _ *Editor's note: *A previous version of this article said 40 UberX vehicles had been seized by the city. The Taxi Bureau confirmed the number of seized vehicle to date (July 14, 2015) is 188. The Montreal Gazette regrets the error._

The Disruptor will become Disrupted - a tech headstart can only last for so long, competition catches up.

I just HATE how sneaky/obtuse with info Uber has been with me, looking to sign up as a Canadian driver for part-time. I'm sure on purpose, to sucker me in.
Just how stupid this is overwhelms me.

If Uber had similar or -5% cost to regular taxi (providing insurance within fee), thus fair competition, people would still use it - for convenience of the App / access to more drivers.


----------



## GreyBush

iBeatle71 said:


> Called more than 25 insurance brokers and companies. . . . . I'm still looking for help and solution.


You are way more patient than me, and, in the same boat.

Right now going to wash dishes as a second job some nights/weekends is less risky and would pay MORE than driving for Uber. Ridiculous. Not going to risk losing my car that is nearly paid for because I was rear-ended at 1am at a stop sign and my airbags deployed and end up with a 3-4k$ repair bill for a 7k$ car.


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## UberUser001

how much does this insurance cost roughly?

i thought uber covered some insurance?


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## UberNorthStar

*My insurance agent* reviewed the Uber insurance policy (aka James Rivers) for me. These were his comments.
1. There is nothing in the JR policy to cover damage to my vehicle or my medical expenses. [Commercial (bodily, collision, comprehensive)]
2. Forget the contingency clause. If my insurance learned I was driving for-hire, they would cancel my auto insurance immediately. (So, I am not driving yet.)
3. The JR policy is *liability insurance *to cover my passengers' medical and property damage expenses, the "other guy's" medical and property damage. The $1M umbrella policy I consider to be a CYA for *Uber incase it is sued.*

Here is the link to both the $1M umbrella policy & the liability coverage.
https://uber-regulatory-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/insurance/COIs/MI.pdf

In TX most if not all policies carry an exclusion of coverage for vehicles-for-hire. This includes personal vehicles used for pizza delivery, newspaper delivery, and transporting people for payment, whether payment is immediate or a week later through a third party.

This week I am purchasing insurance that will give me commercial bodily injury and commercial collision/comprehensive coverage as well as coverage for my personal driving. This policy will definitely cover me when the app is on and I am awaiting a ping -- the gray area.

Many people in the States are driving on their personal policy not realizing they are committing insurance fraud by not letting their insurance company know they are driving on the Uber app. Should they need to file an Uber-related claim, their insurance could be cancelled with their name blacklisted for reference to other insurance companies. 

<Edit: Liberty Mutual writes personal policies only. Their policy would have covered the insurance gaps.>


----------



## Uber_Prospective

Could this cover a leased car also?

Thanks for great info!


----------



## GreyBush

Uber_Prospective said:


> Could this cover a leased car also?


There's a solution! Say YES to the rental car company's optional insurance, that totally covers damage to the car without implicating your personal car insurance.
(forget long term multi-year leasing from a dealership)

Now to call *Enterprise / Avis / Budget* and ask them if it is OK to rent weekends-only a car for P2P (Uber/Lyft) services for a profit. Remember in the UBER contract, there is a clause that the 3rd party insurer MUST be notified of P2P and be in agreement.

The whole issue revolves around using Your Car and Your Insurance, using a rental agency's car would be an awesome workaround. Many offer unlimited mileage.


----------



## Actionjax

GreyBush said:


> There's a solution! Say YES to the rental car company's optional insurance, that totally covers damage to the car without implicating your personal car insurance.
> (forget long term multi-year leasing from a dealership)
> 
> Now to call *Enterprise / Avis / Budget* and ask them if it is OK to rent weekends-only a car for P2P (Uber/Lyft) services for a profit. Remember in the UBER contract, there is a clause that the 3rd party insurer MUST be notified of P2P and be in agreement.
> 
> The whole issue revolves around using Your Car and Your Insurance, using a rental agency's car would be an awesome workaround. Many offer unlimited mileage.


You can't rent a car for Uber. You will have an issue with the ownership and plates as this is a requirement from registration on the app. I can tell you if you just drive and someone comes up to a car that's not the one in the app and the plate number it's going to get reported. Then the account will be deactivated.

Uber is trying to set up a deal with the rental car companies but not sure how that is working out. I think the liability for the insurance was a big deal.


----------



## GreyBush

Actionjax said:


> You can't rent a car for Uber. You will have an issue with the ownership and plates as this is a requirement from registration on the app. I can tell you if you just drive and someone comes up to a car that's not the one in the app and the plate number it's going to get reported. Then the account will be deactivated.


Thanks Jax. Actually this makes no sense whatsoever for Uber to enforce which car I use, as long as it is in order & insured. Plus way less risky.


----------



## GreyBush

Seems LYFT is a bit better, at least they have commercial coverage, that would work for part-time drivers.
However, I have to foot the first 2500$ in any accident. My personal insurance will NOT cover that portion.
Too big of a risk in my opinion for part-time work. Still better than Uber though, at least Lyft has something.

Also, Lyft enforces the use your personal car, you cannot use a rental agency car. This sucks.

*What exactly does Lyft's insurance cover?*

Commercial Auto Liability: $1,000,000 limit for bodily injury and/or property damage or passengers and/or third parties. (applies from the time a driver accepts a ride request in the app until the time the ride is ended in the app)
Contingent Comprehensive & Collision: For drivers who purchase collision & comprehensive coverage on their personal policy, physical damage to the vehicle is covered up to $50,000, subject to a $2,500 deductible (applies from the time a driver accepts a ride request until the time the ride is ended in the app).


----------



## Actionjax

GreyBush said:


> Thanks Jax. Actually this makes no sense whatsoever for Uber to enforce which car I use, as long as it is in order & insured. Plus way less risky.


Actually it makes perfect sense. Unlike a Taxi Uber cars are not marked and it's the only way passengers know they are not just jumping in with a random un vetted stranger who isn't even an Uber driver. It also keeps controls that the car that is registered they have a line of sight that it is meets the requirements. Without that what stops a driver getting approved on a 2012 car then subbing it out for a early 2000 year model car that has no paperwork with it. Or even a stolen car.


----------



## GreyBush

I see your point Jax. A partnership with Enterprise would allow for a pre-vetted fleet. Pick, Pay, Drive

At least Lyft got back to me quick within 5 minutes, saying my request was forwarded to HQ - (1) using Enterprise rental (2) crazy-ass 2500$ deductible.
If I'm willing to pay for a rental to be fully insured with no personal impact, why should I balk at getting less than 80% of fare if it means a 250$ deductible?

It all boils down to ... me finding a different source of a 2nd income. For similar reasons I won't deliver pizza; to be fully insured in all situations.

Any suggestions in this crap economy? The handyman-for-hire ad section is surprisingly big in the local paper.


----------



## driverdeb411

UberNorthStar said:


> *My insurance agent* reviewed the Uber insurance policy (aka James Rivers) for me. These were his comments.
> 1. There is nothing in the JR policy to cover damage to my vehicle or my medical expenses. [Commercial (bodily, collision, comprehensive)]
> 2. Forget the contingency clause. If my insurance learned I was driving for-hire, they would cancel my auto insurance immediately. (So, I am not driving yet.)
> 3. The JR policy is *liability insurance *to cover my passengers' medical and property damage expenses, the "other guy's" medical and property damage. The $1M umbrella policy I consider to be a CYA for *Uber incase it is sued.*
> 
> Here is the link to both the $1M umbrella policy & the liability coverage.
> https://uber-regulatory-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/insurance/COIs/MI.pdf
> 
> In TX most if not all policies carry an exclusion of coverage for vehicles-for-hire. This includes personal vehicles used for pizza delivery, newspaper delivery, and transporting people for payment, whether payment is immediate or a week later through a third party.
> 
> This week I am purchasing insurance that will give me commercial bodily injury and commercial collision/comprehensive coverage as well as coverage for my personal driving. This policy will definitely cover me when the app is on and I am awaiting a ping -- the gray area.
> 
> Many people in the States are driving on their personal policy not realizing they are committing insurance fraud by not letting their insurance company know they are driving on the Uber app. Should they need to file an Uber-related claim, their insurance could be cancelled with their name blacklisted for reference to other insurance companies.
> 
> My policy covering what Uber does not will.cost me $1115/yr through Liberty Mutual. It will.also cover my.personal driving


This post reminds me to ask this:
Is there somewhere we can reference the insurance coverage needs for TNC drivers, state by state? (Including what companies carry those policies?)

As I go to this hearing tomorrow, I am thinking this is good refefence material. (AND I am sure Uber has this info at their fingertips, while they play dumb with us drivers, and leave it to us to do this research ourselves.)


----------



## UberNorthStar

Hi, Driverdeb411.

Welome to the forum!

Please read your Partnership Agreement.

New Drivers have 30 Days to Opt-out of *Binding Arbitration.<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>*

Here is a link to various states's insurance companies who sell rideshare policies.
UNS

http://therideshareguy.com/rideshare-insurance-options-for-drivers/#Texas


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## driverdeb411

Thanks, Uber North Star,

I'm not so sure about this guy's accuracy. He had Plymouth Rock listed for MA, and when I called that company, they said no, they do not sell insurance for us (we all know that, right?) I told them about this guy saying they do. Next time I went to his site, (within the week), that mention was gone....

Best,
Deb


----------



## UberNorthStar

The guy has some good blogs about ridesharing. I would not count him out. 

Star


----------



## driverdeb411

Oh, please don't misunderstand. I just noticed the insurance info he provided *may* not be accurate.


----------



## phillipzx3

DrJeecheroo said:


> I use Geico. They seem pretty cool with me using uber.


Not in Oregon, they are't.


UberNorthStar said:


> I was not referring to run-of-the-mill personal auto insurance when I said "hybrid" insurance policies. In TX one runs the risk of cancellation of their personal policy if the company finds out one is TNC driving.
> 
> As of this Wednesday Liberty Mutual will cover me: 1) like a normal insurance policy; 2) provide me with commercial comprehensive and commercial collision coverage; 3) cover the "gap" when I have the app on before a ping and after dropping my pax off when app is on. Uber Liability will be in force from the time I get a ping until I drop my pax off.


Just got off the phone with a friendly Liberty Mutual agent , who's name is Randy. He told me LM will IN FACT cancel you if you're using a personal policy driving as livery.

We're talking about Oregon.

So...what we have is 3500 uninsured Uber/Lyft drivers cruising the streets UNINSURED!

Here's the agents number in case anyone wants to challenge this information I've provided.

503-231-4125

Ask for Randy....or any agent they have.

In Oregon...Uber/Lyft are not covered. No way, no how. If any of you guys run into our cabs, we're going to sue you for every cent you have. Just a fair warning to those who continue with this gamble.

I take photos of every Uber/Lyft car I see. These photos are turned over to the City and the State.

Keep playing this "it's just my hobby" with MY livelihood, and you're going to get nailed.

You've been warned.


----------



## Sly

phillipzx3 said:


> Not in Oregon, they are't.
> 
> Just got off the phone with a friendly Liberty Mutual agent , who's name is Randy. He told me LM will IN FACT cancel you if you're using a personal policy driving as livery.
> 
> We're talking about Oregon.
> 
> So...what we have is 3500 uninsured Uber/Lyft drivers cruising the streets UNINSURED!
> 
> Here's the agents number in case anyone wants to challenge this information I've provided.
> 
> 503-231-4125
> 
> Ask for Randy....or any agent they have.
> 
> In Oregon...Uber/Lyft are not covered. No way, no how. If any of you guys run into our cabs, we're going to sue you for every cent you have. Just a fair warning to those who continue with this gamble.
> 
> I take photos of every Uber/Lyft car I see. These photos are turned over to the City and the State.
> 
> Keep playing this "it's just my hobby" with MY livelihood, and you're going to get nailed.
> 
> You've been warned.


Do we live in a free society or not?
EVery individual should be free to do with themselves and their property as they see fit as long as it doesn't interfere with another individuals rights. Period.


----------



## GreyBush

Philip -> Not only cancel, but probably blacklist also. Most drivers are probably insured with a limited group of insurers. Just email all of them with pic you took.
They losing their personal insurance coverage will be more effective at stopping them than law enforcement.

Uber/Lyft are making money on the uninformed, that quickly click click to signup without reading.
Perhaps young adults over their heads with car payments? Uber/Lyft publicity certainly caters to that : Hey, make easy money with your car!

The public riding in Uber/Lyft and hurt physically in an accident might not be fully covered also.
If the personal insurance won't cover the car cost, they won't cover medical.

Makes me sick how Uber/Lyft are screwing over their subcontractors while raking millions in revenue and selling stock.


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## Don Oldenburg

John T said:


> BE CAREFUL! In California your personal insurance will not cover you for collision if you have an accident. FURTHERMORE, despite what uber says, you Liability wont work either. You need to purchase commercial insurance. $4800 a year is the cheapest I found


John, check with Farmer's -- They have a RideShare clause that they stand behind that will cover everything as primary -- except when you have passengers in your car -- at that point UBER's is Primary.

For me, it was cheaper than the "AAA" insurance I had for just personal auto coverage. Call them -- They area eager to work with you!


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## GreyBush

Sly -> It does interfere. We're blaming the insurance companies and Uber/Lyft for being purposely obtuse in their legalese.

Plus it pisses off someone with a commercial insurance policy seeing an Uber/Lyft driver that most likely doesn't have proper coverage. Plus putting people at risk (themselves, their riders, 3rd party...)


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## GreyBush

Don Oldenburg said:


> John, check with Farmer's -- They have a RideShare clause that they stand behind that will cover everything as primary...


Well good news then. Just takes a few insurers to step up to the plate. Too bad Cooperators in Canada do not.


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## Don Oldenburg

FYI -- Here is my original quote I got from Farmers -- I upped the mileage a bit, but it's nice to see on price quote that RIDESHARE is being addressed.


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## phillipzx3

Sly said:


> Do we live in a free society or not?
> EVery individual should be free to do with themselves and their property as they see fit as long as it doesn't interfere with another individuals rights. Period.


Is this some sort of 2nd grade rebuttal for the need to be properly insured?

Is so....You get an "F." You have no right to drive around the city as an uninsured livery service. In fact, NO WHERE in the U.S. Constitution does it give you the right to drive, operate or even own a motorized vehicle. It's a privilege.

Grab a dictionary and learn the difference between a "right," and a "privledge."


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## Sly

phillipzx3 said:


> Is this some sort of 2nd grade rebuttal for the need to be properly insured?
> 
> Is so....You get an "F." You have no right to drive around the city as an uninsured livery service. In fact, NO WHERE in the U.S. Constitution does it give you the right to drive, operate or even own a motorized vehicle. It's a privilege.
> 
> Grab a dictionary and learn the difference between a "right," and a "privledge."


It's called the Libertarian motto.
http://www.lp.org/

A free society doesn't need permits to sell their body, their work effort, or the use of their belongings.


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## GreyBush

Don Oldenburg said:


> FYI -- Here is my original quote I got from Farmers -- I upped the mileage a bit, but it's nice to see on price quote that RIDESHARE is being addressed.


My purely personal insurance - in Can $ - is about 508$/year including sales tax.

Don's ride-share is 730$ USD for 6 months, or 1460 per year. So not 4x more expensive, only 3x.


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## UberNorthStar

Thank you, philipzx3, for pointing out I missed a post that needed editing. 

My Liberty Mutual agent, Leonardo Velez, Sr Sales Rep, Outbound DRC (1-877-781-3961) misunderstood me. He thought I wanted personal insurance that would cover the insurance gap.

Should I drive in Oregon (*egg-plant purple *2009 Honda Fit), feel free to take all the pics you want b/c I will be on the *required insurance coverage. *The only personal auto insurance I will have will be liability to match Uber's commercial insurance. You do not scare me in the least. Phillipzx3, as you are no different than any other bully I have dealt with.

You see, not ALL Uber drivers follow Uber blindly without question. Some of us use the common sense God gave us.

BTW, Karma can be a witch! What goes around, comes around. Think about it! 

PS Are you taking pics of the plates on pizza delivery cars or cars where the driver is delivering newspapers? Those ppl need commercial insurance, also.

You are a cabby who is taking pics of vehicles whose drivers you A$$ume to be not insured properly AND to be cutting into your revenue, right? Tsh, tsh, tsh. <shaking head>


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## UberNorthStar

Hi, UberUser001.

Welcome to the forum!

Please read your Partnership Agreement.

New Drivers have 30 Days to Opt-out of *Binding Arbitration.*


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## UberNorthStar

UberUser001, This is the UBER policy in English.

_My insurance agent reviewed the Uber insurance policy (aka James Rivers) for me. These were his comments._

_1. There is *nothing *in the JR policy to cover damage to my vehicle or my medical expenses. [Commercial (bodily, collision, comprehensive)]_

_2. Forget the contingency clause. If my insurance learned I was driving for-hire, they would cancel my auto insurance immediately. (So, I am not driving yet.)_

_3. The JR policy is liability insurance to cover my passengers' medical and property damage expenses, the "other guy's" medical and property damage. The $1M umbrella policy I consider to be a *CYA for Uber* incase it is sued._

_Here is the link to both the $1M umbrella policy & the liability coverage._
_https://uber-regulatory-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/insurance/COIs/MI.pdf_

_In TX most if not all policies carry an exclusion of coverage for vehicles-for-hire. This includes personal vehicles used for pizza delivery, newspaper delivery, and transporting people for payment, whether payment is immediate or a week later through a third party. I do not know about CA._

_Many people in the States are *driving on their personal policy not realizing they are committing insurance fraud* by not letting their insurance company know they are driving on the Uber app. Should they need to file an Uber-related claim, their insurance could be cancelled with their name blacklisted for reference to other insurance companies._

Hope this explanation helps.


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## JDavis

phillipzx3 said:


> Not in Oregon, they are't.
> 
> Just got off the phone with a friendly Liberty Mutual agent , who's name is Randy. He told me LM will IN FACT cancel you if you're using a personal policy driving as livery.
> 
> We're talking about Oregon.
> 
> So...what we have is 3500 uninsured Uber/Lyft drivers cruising the streets UNINSURED!
> 
> Here's the agents number in case anyone wants to challenge this information I've provided.
> 
> 503-231-4125
> 
> Ask for Randy....or any agent they have.
> 
> In Oregon...Uber/Lyft are not covered. No way, no how. If any of you guys run into our cabs, we're going to sue you for every cent you have. Just a fair warning to those who continue with this gamble.
> 
> I take photos of every Uber/Lyft car I see. These photos are turned over to the City and the State.
> 
> Keep playing this "it's just my hobby" with MY livelihood, and you're going to get nailed.
> 
> You've been warned.


I talked to my state farm agent in OR and she said that they don't cover uber in Oregon but to call Scott Rhoten at NW Community Insurance. Haven't talked to him yet since I am not yet driving.


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## UberNorthStar

Hi, J Davis.

Welcome to the forum!

Please read your Partnership Agreement.

New Drivers have 30 Days to Opt-out of *Binding Arbitration.*
*
UNS *


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## GreyBush

www [dot] metronews [dot] ca/news/toronto/2015/09/15/think-youll-get-rich-driving-uberx-in-toronto-think-again.html

Basically Metro News interviews a UberX driver in Toronto who publicly states his insurer doesn't know, with a pic of the guy with his car, his name and lic plate not blurred out.


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## UberNorthStar

GreyBush said:


> with a pic of the guy with his car, his name and lic plate not blurred out.


OPPS!


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## ldra02

UberNorthStar said:


> Hi, Driverdeb411.
> 
> Welome to the forum!
> 
> Please read your Partnership Agreement.
> 
> New Drivers have 30 Days to Opt-out of *Binding Arbitration.<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>*
> 
> Here is a link to various states's insurance companies who sell rideshare policies.
> UNS
> 
> http://therideshareguy.com/rideshare-insurance-options-for-drivers/#Texas


I can verify that USAA has rideshare insurance. That's who I'm insured under. The only portion of the Uber'ing that it doesn't cover is while passengers are in the car, where Uber's policy kicks in. Uber _*claims*_ that if you have full coverage that they'll cover damage to your vehicle during this time, but I haven't heard anything yet to back this up. I've also heard whisperings about the Geico rideshare policy. Worth checking out.
edit: These are policies in Texas.


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## UberNorthStar

ldra002 said:


> I can verify that USAA has rideshare insurance.


Unfortunately my father never used USAA Insurance. That left me looking for another way. I will be paying less under this arrangement than I currently pay for personal insurance.


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## Neil Yaremchuk

EdMoney said:


> I just purchased a commercial rideshare policy through Geico for $140 a month... Hopefully the roll this out nationwide soon.


GEICO has it as a choice but does not offer a commercial policy in Detroit for rideshare operators.

Here is the actual quote: "We're sorry. We are unable to complete your application because we do not have a product available for this type of risk in your location."


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## Sly

Neil Yaremchuk said:


> GEICO has it as a choice but does not offer a commercial policy in Detroit for rideshare operators.
> 
> Here is the actual quote: "We're sorry. We are unable to complete your application because we do not have a product available for this type of risk in your location."


If it doesn't exist then it can't be required.


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## UberNorthStar

All rideshare is is an extension of personal liability to cover the gap. 

I believe we also need commercial comp/collision to cover the driver if he is at fault.


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## JeanetteB

John T said:


> BE CAREFUL! In California your personal insurance will not cover you for collision if you have an accident. FURTHERMORE, despite what uber says, you Liability wont work either. You need to purchase commercial insurance. $4800 a year is the cheapest I found


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## JeanetteB

Bob Smith said:


> How do you keep up with expenses when your paying for insurance, gas, maintenance etc? are wouldnt that lower ur costs to LESS then minimum wage?


Contact me if you want true commercial drivers plan, less than 35.00 per month and covered in all 50 states and four Provinces in Canada. We all need smart, reliable protection.


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