# I ran a 17,500 mile oil change and this happened.



## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

Absolutely nothing. No added oil, no filter change.

Sent it off for analysis and the lab says..... motor's fine with it. This was almost all TNC city miles hauling American sized people around.

2014 Toyota Camry Hybrid with just under 200k miles. Oil was Mobil 1 Extended Protection 5w-20. Filter was a Mobil 1 EP cartridge.

What's the point? I wanted to see if I was wasting time and money following Toyota's 10,000 mile oil change intervals, or their lesser duration 'severe' duty schedule. Mobil 1 EP claimed 20,000 mile intervals, and it delivered.

That said, doing TNC does have some benefits to your car. You put on a lot of miles, but you go further per trip. Meaning, there are less hot/cold cycles on the motor than a typical commuter car with equivalent miles. The lack of short trips means less blow-by and fuel dilution (as shown in the report). I don't drive like grandma either, and have the stack of tickets to prove it.

We've come a LONG way from 3000/mi intervals.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Thanks !
That's no surprise to me since I go 25,000 all the time with Amsoil. However

I just bought a 2018 Camry with 2.5L, and for a while now Toyota is not happy with 25k service life of Amsoil, but 15K is fine, hence Mobil 1's Gold cap.

One can always tell Amsoil oil filters for Toyota - Lexus , as the part # starts with 15K - ....

Problem is Amsoil hasn't come out with the 0W-16 in the extended drain interval yet. Only available in OEM grade. 

Now moving onto the 8 speed Transmission. I'll start another thread about that. 
Amsoiil does have the extended drain ATF for Toyota's.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Null said:


> Absolutely nothing. No added oil, no filter change.
> 
> Sent it off for analysis and the lab says..... motor's fine with it. This was almost all TNC city miles hauling American sized people around.
> 
> ...





Null said:


> Absolutely nothing. No added oil, no filter change.
> 
> Sent it off for analysis and the lab says..... motor's fine with it. This was almost all TNC city miles hauling American sized people around.
> 
> ...


2008 Prius
530k miles.
Last 100k miles have been on 20k mile OCI
with various extended life oils and filters. 
No issues whatsoever!. Car runs great. More cash back in my wallet!


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

2016 KIA 
270,000 KM
Mobil 1 from new with changes every 15,000 KM


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## Hexonxonx (Dec 11, 2019)

I did that often with a 2014 Accord that I had. I bought the car with something like 25,000 miles. I traded it in at 115,000. I think I had three oil changes all together. the car burned oil though like a lot of them did for that generation so I had to add a quart about every two months. Generally, I had it in once a year for an oil change. It was the most trouble free car I owned.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

I did like 25k on a pizza delivery car 2002 altima.. nothing happened..on regular oil...now I am every 5k


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

There was this extraordinarily penny-pinching local-government president who had decreed that money was to be saved by no longer oiling the vehicles.  Evidently this guy was an actual oiler on a USN ship in WW2, and he saw how ships' diesel engines never needed an oil change.

Of course, what he didn't realize is that those engines burned enough oil so that a swabbie like himself was essentially changing the oil a little bit every time he added it.


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## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> There was this extraordinarily penny-pinching local-government president who had decreed that money was to be saved by no longer oiling the vehicles.  Evidently this guy was an actual oiler on a USN ship in WW2, and he saw how ships' diesel engines never needed an oil change.
> 
> Of course, what he didn't realize is that those engines burned enough oil so that a swabbie like himself was essentially changing the oil a little bit every time he added it.


Might also be incomparable because automotive oils use viscosity improvers so they can run over a range of temperatures. These chemicals break down over time. A ship that uses the ocean as a coolant has a pretty narrow operating range that it probably isn't using Viscosity improvers. So, the oil doesn't break down much and the only concern becomes contamination over time. Of which, adding oil doesn't help.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

bobby747 said:


> I did like 25k on a pizza delivery car 2002 altima.. nothing happened..on regular oil...now I am every 5k


I once went 3 years without an oil change.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

5,000 years ago in High School the auto shop teacher showed us a jar with oil in it from a car that had not had the oil changed in 100,000 miles. He turned the jar upside down. The oil stayed in the jar.

But having said that I tend to agree with the OP. I go by color to indicate when oil needs to be changed.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> engines burned enough oil so that a swabbie like himself was essentially changing the oil a little bit every time he added it.


Yup, thats my Prius. About a quart every 1000 miles.


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## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Yup, thats my Prius. About a quart every 1000 miles.


That's... quite excessive.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Null said:


> That's... quite excessive.


Meh, given the mileage (530k) I kinda' expect it, and also, couldn't care less!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Null said:


> Absolutely nothing. No added oil, no filter change.
> 
> Sent it off for analysis and the lab says..... motor's fine with it. This was almost all TNC city miles hauling American sized people around.
> 
> ...


This is on a car-by-car basis, though. I have the previous generation Camry Hybrid that has the oil consumption issue. What happens is that oil blows past the piston rings on the intake cycle and combustion gases blow past the rings on the firing stroke and into the engine oil. So, when changing the oil at the specified 5,000 mile intervals, the oil comes out black.

I'll stay at 5,000 mile intervals. Oil and filters are cheap; engines aren't.


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## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

elelegido said:


> This is on a car-by-car basis, though. I have the previous generation Camry Hybrid that has the oil consumption issue. What happens is that oil blows past the piston rings on the intake cycle and combustion gases blow past the rings on the firing stroke and into the engine oil. So, when changing the oil at the specified 5,000 mile intervals, the oil comes out black.
> 
> I'll stay at 5,000 mile intervals. Oil and filters are cheap; engines aren't.


Color isn't an accurate indication of oil condition.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Null said:


> Color isn't an accurate indication of oil condition.


Yes it is.


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## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

elelegido said:


> Yes it is.


 If you say so. My oil was black at 5k miles in this change in the report. Went 12500 miles behind the point it was black. 🤷‍♂️


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Just because an oil looks Black does not mean it's Additive package has been depleted to the point of needing a change. Only a lab report can tell you that.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

elelegido said:


> Yes it is.


Source?


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

If you want to more safely extend your oil life - at every other interval just change the filter and top it off with one quart of fresh oil.
It is more likely that your oil filter will get full/clogged than for your oil to break down under mild driving.
When that happens the filter has a bypass valve that opens and oil bypasses the filter.





What is the Function of the Bypass Valve in an Oil Filter? - Premium Guard Filters







www.pgfilters.com


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

I wonder if Fram ever put the BY-pass valve back in there filters ?


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## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

Atavar said:


> If you want to more safely extend your oil life - at every other interval just change the filter and top it off with one quart of fresh oil.
> It is more likely that your oil filter will get full/clogged than for your oil to break down under mild driving.
> When that happens the filter has a bypass valve that opens and oil bypasses the filter.
> 
> ...


The main point of an extended OCI is to avoid time/expense, and keep you on the road longer between maintenance trips. If you do oil changes yourself, 80% of the time to do a change is the filter, especially with modern cartridge styles that are mounted under the car. If you're going to do all that you might as well do an entire oil change given that oil isn't that expensive relative to the time it takes to change it.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Null said:


> The main point of an extended OCI is to avoid time/expense, and keep you on the road longer between maintenance trips. If you do oil changes yourself, 80% of the time to do a change is the filter, especially with modern cartridge styles that are mounted under the car. If you're going to do all that you might as well do an entire oil change given that oil isn't that expensive relative to the time it takes to change it.


Lol. I can change a filter and add a quart in ten minutes. 
With synth oil at $8/quart that’s $32 I don’t spend every other time. So $18 on even changes and $50 on odd changes. 
I don’t know about you but the difference between $18 and $50 is significant to me. Especially in this gig where oil changes are monthly. Over a year that’s about a $200 difference. 
Having said that my local dealership offers a package of six synth blend oil changes for $160 so I’ve just been doing those at a 5-7k interval. 
As a bonus they rotate the tires, check brakes and battery and air filter and lights and fill radiator and washer fluid if needed. Free coffee and popcorn or cookies while I wait. Usually less than an hour. 
Some times the dealer will surprise you.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> I wonder if Fram ever put the BY-pass valve back in there filters ?


Yep. They always had it. Running without it would be catastrophic.
What they took out of some filters was the check valve that keeps oil from draining out of the heads when the engine is off. Without that the lifters on some engines will clatter for a couple seconds when starting.

*Brand:*
Fram
*Manufacturer's Part Number:*
XG3675
*Part Type:*
Oil Filters
*Product Line:*
Fram Ultra Oil Filters
FRM-XG3675
*UPC:*
009100044686
*Oil Filter Style:*
Canister
*Height (in.):*
4.078 in.
*Outside Diameter (in.):*
2.984 in.
*Filter Bypass Relief Valve:*
Yes
*Anti-Drainback Valve:*
No


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## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

Atavar said:


> Lol. I can change a filter and add a quart in ten minutes.
> With synth oil at $8/quart that’s $32 I don’t spend every other time. So $18 on even changes and $50 on odd changes.
> I don’t know about you but the difference between $18 and $50 is significant to me. Especially in this gig where oil changes are monthly. Over a year that’s about a $200 difference.
> Having said that my local dealership offers a package of six synth blend oil changes for $160 so I’ve just been doing those at a 5-7k interval.
> ...


That's some nascar level filter change. Good on you. I can't access my filter except by under the car with jacks/stands or ramps. And I loathe Toyota cartridge filters. I'm also able to just go 17k+ miles on a oil change, without adding oil, and without a filter change.

There's no point (for me) to do a filter only change.

And yeah, oil can be very cheap. Stock up during retailer/manufactuer rebate/sales events. My 5 quarts of Mobil 1 EP was like $10 when I last purchased. I bought 100k miles worth of oil for changes for $50.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Atavar said:


> If you want to more safely extend your oil life - at every other interval just change the filter and top it off with one quart of fresh oil.
> It is more likely that your oil filter will get full/clogged than for your oil to break down under mild driving.
> When that happens the filter has a bypass valve that opens and oil bypasses the filter.
> 
> ...


Every once in a while, you learn something new, ty.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

BTW, if you do a little research you will find that even though Mobil1 is labeled as full synthetic it is a blend with a Dino oil base. It actually has a Group III base with some Group IV/V components.
Unlike Amsoil which is full synthetic with a Group IV base.
I personally do not think this is a reason not to use it but YMMV.


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## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

Atavar said:


> BTW, if you do a little research you will find that even though Mobil1 is labeled as full synthetic it is a blend with a Dino oil base. It actually has a Group III base with some Group IV/V components.
> Unlike Amsoil which is full synthetic with a Group IV base.
> I personally do not think this is a reason not to use it but YMMV.


Which bears what significance to your typical TNC driver? If you can get low wear numbers with Mobil 1, your marginal increase in performance with what is technically a superior product doesn't equate to better longevity, fuel economy, etc.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Null said:


> Which bears what significance to your typical TNC driver? If you can get low wear numbers with Mobil 1, your marginal increase in performance with what is technically a superior product doesn't equate to better longevity, fuel economy, etc.


Hey, if it stops my engine from wearing I don’t care if it’s Yak butter.
I just mentioned it because I always thought it odd that they would label a blend as full synth. I know they can’t in Japan or much of Europe. I guess that here in the US if you can pay lobbyists enough you can do whatever you want.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

450k miles, full synthetic whenever the vehicle tells me to do it.

She runs like brand new for a 8 year old, can keep her on Uber for another 7 and it's a lot more profit in my pocket.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Null said:


> Absolutely nothing. No added oil, no filter change.
> 
> Sent it off for analysis and the lab says..... motor's fine with it. This was almost all TNC city miles hauling American sized people around.
> 
> ...


My Prius has 457,298 miles and I do full synthetic every 5000 without fail.
I like the 5000 miles because I also rotate tires , check oil levels, lights and wipers etc.


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## Big man xl (Dec 21, 2016)

Null said:


> Absolutely nothing. No added oil, no filter change.
> 
> Sent it off for analysis and the lab says..... motor's fine with it. This was almost all TNC city miles hauling American sized people around.
> 
> ...


That's nothing. I used a 2010 honda odyssey for uber from 98k to 325k and only change oil at 105k and never changed it again. 220k miles with no oil change. It did burn a quart of oil a week I will admit that. 220k no oil change and even at 325k the engine was still strong as hell. I only gave it up after someone stole my catalytic converter. 2010 odyssey are beast


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

But how do you pass the Smog Check with it burning a Qt a week ?


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## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

Big man xl said:


> That's nothing. I used a 2010 honda odyssey for uber from 98k to 325k and only change oil at 105k and never changed it again. 220k miles with no oil change. It did burn a quart of oil a week I will admit that. 220k no oil change and even at 325k the engine was still strong as hell. I only gave it up after someone stole my catalytic converter. 2010 odyssey are beast


Ehhh. A quart a week isn't a healthy engine. Your rings or valve guides were likely shot. While I believe it ran plenty fine there's a good chance you wouldn't have burned a quart a week with regular OCIs, and would have net saved money.

The lubricating properties of oil are still there even when the additive package is depleted and viscosity improvers are sheared. Mostly oil changes are done to remove contaminants, and refresh the add pack. The oil itself is really what does the lubricating. But, oil gets acidic/corrosive, byproducts can clog oil passageways/cause lifters to stick, etc.


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## Null (Oct 6, 2015)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> But how do you pass the Smog Check with it burning a Qt a week ?


Usually, it's valve guides that cause those high rate burns. Usually blue smoke after sitting for a bit. No smoke on startup usually means rings. 

Either case, a quart burning at the rate of Uber driving isn't enough to raise Hydrocarbons enough to fail.

Even CA also doesn't really test cars anymore. Most cars on the road are just checked for OBD II readiness with no codes. The only inspection occurs when a tech visually checks that you have a cat, EGR, etc.

In other words, smog shops do nothing other than make sure your check engine light isn't on. It's a racket.


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## Big man xl (Dec 21, 2016)

Null said:


> Ehhh. A quart a week isn't a healthy engine. Your rings or valve guides were likely shot. While I believe it ran plenty fine there's a good chance you wouldn't have burned a quart a week with regular OCIs, and would have net saved money.
> 
> The lubricating properties of oil are still there even when the additive package is depleted and viscosity improvers are sheared. Mostly oil changes are done to remove contaminants, and refresh the add pack. The oil itself is really what does the lubricating. But, oil gets acidic/corrosive, byproducts can clog oil passageways/cause lifters to stick, etc.


A quart a week was cheaper than a monthly oil change and like I said, I had 325k and had full power. No drag or anything. And I'm sure had i not got rid of it, I could have put another 75k on that begin with no trouble.


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## Merc49 (Apr 30, 2019)

Penny wise and dollar foolish. True, oil doesn't wear out, it gets dirty with carbon, and metal from normal wear from parts like bearings. The bearings are soft so they get impregnated with dirt which in turn destroys the bearing and the surface it rides on. Yeah you can change the oil 4 times at high intervals then get out your wallet and rebuild it, or set it on fire and collect the insurance. You can pay now or pay later but you WILL pay.


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