# Someone PLEASE explain the surge... I must be differently abled.



## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

YES, I must be dumb.

I'm reading stuff about 12$ and $17.00 surges in the bay area sub forum.

I've NEVER seen a surge over 6 or 7 bucks.

What is going on here? I don't get it. the "red zones" are always in the same place.

so what's the deal with surge? Are these people full of it? Is that FLAT RATE or a multiplier?

thanks.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Most of the surges I see now are between $2 and $6. Every once in a blue moon I'll see something as high as $15.


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## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

Coachman said:


> Most of the surges I see now are between $2 and $6. Every once in a blue moon I'll see something as high as $15.


yeah its crap. The highest "surge" I ever got was through....GASP ....lyft. WHERE, of All PLACES, it was in Yountville!

(way north of napa, NO event going on, and it was $17.BUX!)

W...
t......
f.........

The bay is SO over saturated with drivers,

I think we need a third party.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

It's got nothing to do with driver saturation. Uber decided to lower the surge payouts to attract more riders.


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## Canaddar (Oct 3, 2019)

The highest I have seen is $20. I have seen that a few times.

The most I have ever actually received (I think) was $16.


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Basically, flat rate surge (or Charlotte surge, named for where it was first tested) finalized the decoupling of what riders pay and what drivers get. Surge is (and always was) an incentive to get drivers into areas of high demand. Now, however, Uber collects all these surge payments in a giant "slush fund" and redistributes them to drivers in a targeted fashion in the form of "+ x dollars" clouds which vary based on driver supply and rider demand among other factors I'm guessing. _Riders are still paying some version of the multiplier though_. In this way, they can skim a little more money since they control everything and rider payment and driver pay literally have nothing to do with each other.

You will see surge adjustments when a driver gets a low flat surge but gets a long ride where a rider pays a hefty surge. This is to prevent Uber from getting a black eye because early on in Charlotte this did not exist and it was typical to see Uber's take hit 70, 80, 90% on some rides. This was embarrassing and some drivers were refusing long trips or cutting out Uber entirely. Now they'll adjust your fare and take "only" 50% or so.

Lastly, and this is my own tin foil hat stuff, I have my doubts that every driver sees the same surge clouds, at least 100% of the time. We know this to be true with incentives but I've never gotten together with other drivers and tested this. It wouldn't surprise me at all though if surge was individually tailored based on yet another algorithm of individual tendencies.


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## Penderecki (Oct 19, 2019)

I had a $13 surge Saturday after the homecoming game! A pax the next day said he paid ~$80 surge for a normally $10 trip from the same game??


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Penderecki said:


> I had a $13 surge Saturday after the homecoming game! A pax the next day said he paid ~$80 surge for a normally $10 trip from the same game??


It's a rip off. Uber charges the pax a multiplier while only giving the driver a minimal flat rate.

I found myself in a $14 surge once and decided to check the fare to my home. I pulled up the rider app and found that the ride, which normally would be about $40, was estimated in surge to be $154. So Uber would charge the pax $154 and pay the driver about $56. Total rip off.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Greenfox said:


> YES, I must be dumb.
> 
> I'm reading stuff about 12$ and $17.00 surges in the bay area sub forum.
> 
> ...


It's a flat rate, at least it is in the Bay Area. I think it used to be multiplier, but they switched to flat rate to bone XL/Select/Black out of the mileage/time multiplier.

There was a surge at the end of the Cal Bears game on Saturday that was $20 or so.

That would be the equivalent of a 11X surge at Bay Area Zone 2 (East Bay) rates if I'm not mistaken. (Please chime in anyone if that's not right.)

I had the misfortune of dropping off three pax at the International House on Bancroft three blocks from the stadium and almost getting a ticket. These three bimbos jumped out of my car in the middle of the street in full view of multiple motorcycle traffic cops who were signalling me not to drop off there. Couldn't get out of there fast enough.

Ever seen the traffic after a Bears game? I have. Take that $20 dollars and...










If you're really hungry for surge, GreenFox, check the schedules of the Chase Center in SF and Shoreline Amphitheatre for let-out times of different events.

Just be warned, you'll earn every penny of it.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> That would be the equivalent of a 11X surge at Bay Area Zone 2 (East Bay) rates if I'm not mistaken. (Please chime in anyone if that's not right.)


An 11X surge on a $20 fare would be $220. Yes, surge used to highly profitable. Typical surge rates I used to see were between 2X and 5X.


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## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

Coachman said:


> It's a rip off. Uber charges the pax a multiplier while only giving the driver a minimal flat rate.
> 
> I found myself in a $14 surge once and decided to check the fare to my home. I pulled up the rider app and found that the ride, which normally would be about $40, was estimated in surge to be $154. So Uber would charge the pax $154 and pay the driver about $56. Total rip off.


Yeah but that ride would have been adjusted and you would have probably received closer to $100.. I've got rides that have done exactly that...


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Coachman said:


> An 11X surge on a $20 fare would be $220. Yes, surge used to highly profitable. Typical surge rates I used to see were between 2X and 5X.


So if the normal flat rate fare is around $1.80 then a $20 surge bonus (no multiplier) would be around an 11x surge, wouldn't it? Or am I getting the math wrong? The whole thing seems really confusing, which I'm sure is exactly how Uber wants it.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> So if the normal flat rate fare is around $1.80 then a $20 surge bonus (no multiplier) would be around an 11x surge, wouldn't it? Or am I getting the math wrong? The whole thing seems really confusing, which I'm sure is exactly how Uber wants it.


I suppose. Where is the minimum fare only $1.80?


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Coachman said:


> I suppose. Where is the minimum fare only $1.80?


Sorry, I got base fare and minimum trip earnings backwards.

Minimum trip earnings in my zone is $3.74. So if I were offered a surge bonus of $20 that would be 20/3.74=5.3X surge. Did I get that right?

Here's the cut/paste pay for my Zone BTW (Bay Area Zone 2)

*Zone 2*
Base Fare
$1.23

Long Pickup Fee
Variable
Per Mile
$0.60
Per Minute
$0.2024
Threshold
10 minutes

Per Mile
0.60

Per Minute
$0.2024

Per Minute Wait Time
$0.315

Minimum Trip Earnings
$3.74

Cancellation Fee
Variable
Standard Driver Initiated Cancellation Fee
$3.84
Standard Rider Initiated Cancellation Fee
$3.84
Per Mile
$0.60
Per Minute
$0.2024
Additional Pickup Fare

$0.00


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## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

mrpjfresh said:


> Basically, flat rate surge (or Charlotte surge, named for where it was first tested) finalized the decoupling of what riders pay and what drivers get. Surge is (and always was) an incentive to get drivers into areas of high demand. Now, however, Uber collects all these surge payments in a giant "slush fund" and redistributes them to drivers in a targeted fashion in the form of "+ x dollars" clouds which vary based on driver supply and rider demand among other factors I'm guessing. _Riders are still paying some version of the multiplier though_. In this way, they can skim a little more money since they control everything and rider payment and driver pay literally have nothing to do with each other.
> 
> You will see surge adjustments when a driver gets a low flat surge but gets a long ride where a rider pays a hefty surge. This is to prevent Uber from getting a black eye because early on in Charlotte this did not exist and it was typical to see Uber's take hit 70, 80, 90% on some rides. This was embarrassing and some drivers were refusing long trips or cutting out Uber entirely. Now they'll adjust your fare and take "only" 50% or so.
> 
> Lastly, and this is my own tin foil hat stuff, I have my doubts that every driver sees the same surge clouds, at least 100% of the time. We know this to be true with incentives but I've never gotten together with other drivers and tested this. It wouldn't surprise me at all though if surge was individually tailored based on yet another algorithm of individual tendencies.




Holy shit

It's not tin foil. See my post 'the perfect ride'... I wanted to break 100 with AS.LITTLE EFFORT AS POSSIBLE...and wouldn't you know....



Johnny Mnemonic said:


> Sorry, I got base fare and minimum trip earnings backwards.
> 
> Minimum trip earnings in my zone is $3.74. So if I were offered a surge bonus of $20 that would be 20/3.74=5.3X surge. Did I get that right?
> 
> ...


Does lyft pay more.in the bay? I swear to GOD it seems like it does.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Greenfox said:


> Does lyft pay more.in the bay? I swear to GOD it seems like it does.


I don't do Lyft (yet) but I'm sure someone here can either post them or put up a link.

BTW, the rates I posted are Zone 2. East bay from Fremont up to Carquinez Straight.

Zone 3 is everything south of SFO to Los Gatos

Zone 1 is SF and North Bay


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

mrpjfresh said:


> Basically, flat rate surge (or Charlotte surge, named for where it was first tested) finalized the decoupling of what riders pay and what drivers get. Surge is (and always was) an incentive to get drivers into areas of high demand. Now, however, Uber collects all these surge payments in a giant "slush fund" and redistributes them to drivers in a targeted fashion in the form of "+ x dollars" clouds which vary based on driver supply and rider demand among other factors I'm guessing. _Riders are still paying some version of the multiplier though_. In this way, they can skim a little more money since they control everything and rider payment and driver pay literally have nothing to do with each other.
> 
> You will see surge adjustments when a driver gets a low flat surge but gets a long ride where a rider pays a hefty surge. This is to prevent Uber from getting a black eye because early on in Charlotte this did not exist and it was typical to see Uber's take hit 70, 80, 90% on some rides. This was embarrassing and some drivers were refusing long trips or cutting out Uber entirely. Now they'll adjust your fare and take "only" 50% or so.
> 
> Lastly, and this is my own tin foil hat stuff, I have my doubts that every driver sees the same surge clouds, at least 100% of the time. We know this to be true with incentives but I've never gotten together with other drivers and tested this. It wouldn't surprise me at all though if surge was individually tailored based on yet another algorithm of individual tendencies.


You mean like that phantom $10 dollar surge 5 minutes away from your house when you check the app ?


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

It’s just Uber math and it’s generally very ugly based on a driver’s percentage of the total fare.


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