# Uber Is Headed for a Crash?



## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Hubert Horan. Always an informative read.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/will-uber-survive-the-next-decade.html

"Uber has never presented a case as to why it will ever be profitable, let alone earn an adequate return on capital. Investors are pinning their hopes on a successful IPO, which means finding greater fools in sufficient numbers"


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## soontobeautomated (Apr 4, 2017)

Let's see how off topic this thread will get. 

Ready

Set

Go........


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## ST DYMPHNA son (Aug 10, 2017)

soontobeautomated said:


> Let's see how off topic this thread will get.
> 
> Ready
> 
> ...


...have you read it???...I did...suppose that IPO will be an answer to it...


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## 95223 (Feb 21, 2017)

um yeah... for those who love headlines this is a winner

to anyone who understands the so called big picture..... this is landfill........


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

elle149 said:


> um yeah... for those who love headlines this is a winner
> 
> to anyone who understands the so called big picture..... this is landfill........


In what way?


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## 95223 (Feb 21, 2017)

everythingsuber said:


> In what way?


facebook never presented a case of profitability.
nor did snapchat,nor did instagram
etc etc etc 
profit was never 'touted' as their core business !

obviously it was always part of the business plan, but it was never once pitched .... not until they listed or more importantly (in this arena) were valued.

The simpler way of explaining this is - an investor in uber will absolutely be brought in on the "return to investment figures"
these are not usually made public and they are never once touted in public as 'profits'

Keep in mind, uber is still reporting losses on its balance sheet - all the while re-investing, accruing new businesses and making massive future based capital investments

knowone is burning this amount of cash if they believed for second there is no positive return.... ie profit


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## ST DYMPHNA son (Aug 10, 2017)

elle149 said:


> facebook never presented a case of profitability.
> nor did snapchat,nor did instagram
> etc etc etc
> profit was never 'touted' as their core business !
> ...


...an optimist ,aren't you...





...but please read what was written in the article...


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

elle149 said:


> facebook never presented a case of profitability.
> nor did snapchat,nor did instagram
> etc etc etc
> profit was never 'touted' as their core business !
> ...


Can cite plenty of examples of gamblers throwing out good money chasing bad? 
Uber have pivoted about 5 times.

Let's look at what they've diversified into.
Driverless cars? Waymo / Google now admit decades away if ever. 
Flying taxis?.A few drawings powered by batteries that don't even exist.
Bikes? No one else is making money there.

What is the big picture no one else can see?


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## 95223 (Feb 21, 2017)

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...an optimist ,aren't you...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


im not a over the top fan of uber the business.

i like the principle of ride sharing
i like the workings of the uber service
(door pick up / tracking driver etc )
i like the fact there is another competitor in the market other than taxis

i did read the article 
its absolutely nothing new in regards to this opinion

i dont agree with it because i see things in this space very differently


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Market needs to be in a uptrend ... they will scrap it if market is not moving much.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

soontobeautomated said:


> Let's see how off topic this thread will get.
> 
> Ready
> 
> ...


I'm really busy this afternoon I won't bite


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Uber is in for a rude awakening, the stock market is going to crash before they go IPO, and then Uber will blame the drivers.


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## ST DYMPHNA son (Aug 10, 2017)

elle149 said:


> im not a over the top fan of uber the business.
> 
> i like the principle of ride sharing
> i like the workings of the uber service
> ...


...same as you I like driving with uber,but I am old,over sixty,so it is more like a fun to do it for me,but everything indicates,logic,common sense,whatever...that what this guy wrote might be correct ...well...IPO will be a proof if he was right or wrong...


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

Who got into a crash ?




Jk


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## Lexkan (Jan 13, 2017)

I've mentioned it before that they should of IPOed some time ago, now they are heading into perfect storm


peteyvavs said:


> Uber is in for a rude awakening, the stock market is going to crash before they go IPO, and then Uber will blame the drivers.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Data collection is the new silk, spices or gold now


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## ST DYMPHNA son (Aug 10, 2017)

Kodyhead said:


> Data collection is the new silk, spices or gold now


...as so any other bullshit till one need a bread and water...


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Uber JUST sold $2 billion in bonds. That's $2,000,000,000 at .... drumroll please .... EIGHT PERCENT.
It was pointed out elsewhere you you can get subprime auto loans for less.

EIGHT PERCENT

https://www.wsj.com/articles/uber-borrows-2-billion-in-debut-bond-sale-1539872466

_"The new bonds received a private credit rating of single-B-minus from S&P Global Ratings and B3 from Moody's Investors Service Inc., which were only made available to investors who signed confidentiality agreements, the analyst said. High-yield bond investors compared Uber's deal to bonds recently issued by WeWork Cos. and Tesla Inc.,two other cash-burning companies with start-up profiles and lofty equity valuations."_

Cash out at the end of every shift. Why? Because in a bankruptcy case; vendors and contractors get paid last. That means, you won't get paid. Don't get into them for more than you can afford to lose.


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## FernandoPoe V1 (Nov 28, 2018)

Their revenue for the 3rd quarter is $2.95B so they must be doing something right...But with a declared loss of $1B?!? That means only 2 things:
1. Either they're really bad at accounting for overhead expenses OR
2. They are investing heavily in other things like assets, etc.

I find it hard to believe that the losses are all associated with overheads. I mean, apart from servers, their HQ, some staff and one(or two) green light hubs per city... What else is there?


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## ST DYMPHNA son (Aug 10, 2017)

FernandoPoe V1 said:


> Their revenue for the 3rd quarter is $2.95B so they must be doing something right...But with a declared loss of $1B?!? That means only 2 things:
> 1. Either they're really bad at accounting for overhead expenses OR
> 2. They are investing heavily in other things like assets, etc.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that the losses are all associated with overheads. I mean, apart from servers, their HQ, some staff and one(or two) green light hubs per city... What else is there?


...haven't you noticed electronic billboards around Sydney with uber advertising??,multiply it with cities around the world,all settlements out of court ie paying to a family of the woman killed by uber autonomous car,paying of blackmailers,programmers,T.K six Billion,uber expenses are humongous...and don't forget that taxi business was not making much money before uber came...uber was like a gangster undercutting legit business 'cos they did not have overheads like taxis had...uber stopped to be gangster like and there is a prize to pay for it...now uber has to comply to the rules...and that is expensive ...please read article which started this thread...the logic can not be denied...


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

8% is a really good rate if you're going to lose it all anyways.


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## 95223 (Feb 21, 2017)

At the end of the day, if you make an assumption based on the data you have you will always be able to outline a good argument to promote your belief.

its the data / information you dont have that enables these people / beliefs / assumptions 

that data / information is the inner workings that create bottom line losses, all whilst the company seemingly expands exponentially
do we sitting here on a forum have any of that info - nope...

but...

does their profit / loss statements give any kind of true indication of their future ???

i will categorically say NOPE ... !


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## FernandoPoe V1 (Nov 28, 2018)

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...haven't you noticed electronic billboards around Sydney with uber advertising??,multiply it with cities around the world,all settlements out of court ie paying to a family of the woman killed by uber autonomous car,paying of blackmailers,programmers,T.K six Billion,uber expenses are humongous...and don't forget that taxi business was not making much money before uber came...uber was like a gangster undercutting legit business 'cos they did not have overheads like taxis had...uber stopped to be gangster like and there is a prize to pay for it...now uber has to comply to the rules...and that is expensive ...please read article which started this thread...the logic can not be denied...


I did, hence why I commented. Actually, I re-read it again to search for your quoted blackmail, settlements, etc...thinking I missed it.

Honestly, I found the article more opinionated rather than based on actual facts... But hey, opinions are like brains... You got yours and I got mine.


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## ST DYMPHNA son (Aug 10, 2017)

FernandoPoe V1 said:


> I did, hence why I commented. Actually, I re-read it again to search for your quoted blackmail, settlements, etc...thinking I missed it.
> 
> Honestly, I found the article more opinionated rather than based on actual facts... But hey, opinions are like brains... You got yours and I got mine.


...do you live under the rocks???don't you know how uber paid the hackers who hacked in to uber server and got all the data of every user and driver perhaps including you...didn't you read about fiasco with uber car killing a woman???...say hello to your brain but watch out for the "Echo" ...


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## FernandoPoe V1 (Nov 28, 2018)

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...do you live under the rocks???don't you know how uber paid the hackers who hacked in to uber server and got all the data of every user and driver perhaps including you...didn't you read about fiasco with uber car killing a woman???...say hello to your brain but watch out for the "Echo" ...


Ah...All I can really say is... Dunning-Kreuger Effect?

I'd argue with you but my daddy once told me never to argue with special people as it hurts their feelings... Gday!


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## Lexkan (Jan 13, 2017)

FernandoPoe V1 said:


> Ah...All I can really say is... Dunning-Kreuger Effect?
> 
> I'd argue with you but my daddy once told me never to argue with special people as it hurts their feelings... Gday!


Your daddy tried his best not to fail twice


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## Jefferson DDBY (Jul 27, 2018)

I had to double check to see if this was a post from 2016.
If you beleive driverless cars are decades away, pm me the name of your dealer. I’m running low.


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## soontobeautomated (Apr 4, 2017)

ST DYMPHNA son said:


> ...have you read it???...I did...suppose that IPO will be an answer to it...


I'd like to read it. But my morals prevent me from giving my $'s to a Murdoch owned company - its behind a paywall.

Anyway. Judge Judy is just starting, then I'm hitting the road. Need a taste of Justice first.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

are they testing self driving cars down there? Cause they are in my market

http://www.govtech.com/fs/Fords-Argo-AI-Welcomed-to-Miami-for-Self-Driving-Car-Testing.html

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/11/17448702/ford-self-driving-car-food-delivery-miami-postmates

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/27/17055616/ford-self-driving-car-miami-test-av

I think 10 years they will be driving within limited areas like small downtown areas or beach areas doing 0-3 mile trips

Ford and GM basically quit making cars to focus more resources and money on this lol, and they are expecting to drive around atheletes around a limited area in the Tokyo Olympics


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Jefferson DDBY said:


> I had to double check to see if this was a post from 2016.
> If you beleive driverless cars are decades away, pm me the name of your dealer. I'm running low.


More than happy to look past the propaganda.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...-driving-cars-won-t-be-ubiqitious-for-decades


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## Jefferson DDBY (Jul 27, 2018)

everythingsuber said:


> More than happy to look past the propaganda.
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...-driving-cars-won-t-be-ubiqitious-for-decades


Do you know what the word "ubiquitous" means? Self driving cars do not have to be ubiquitous to replace you. If every single rideshare driver was replaced tomorrow that would still be a small percentage of the cars on the road. Therefore Bloomberg can say "see...it's not ubiquitous yet". Meanwhile you're out of gig and you're curled up on the floor in the fetal position wisherpering....."not yet....not yet".


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Jefferson DDBY said:


> Do you know what the word "ubiquitous" means? Self driving cars do not have to be ubiquitous to replace you. If every single rideshare driver was replaced tomorrow that would still be a small percentage of the cars on the road. Therefore Bloomberg can say "see...it's not ubiquitous yet". Meanwhile you're out of gig and you're curled up on the floor in the fetal position wisherpering....."not yet....not yet".


Always have constraints. They need to be safer than people to replace people.



Jefferson DDBY said:


> Do you know what the word "ubiquitous" means? Self driving cars do not have to be ubiquitous to replace you. If every single rideshare driver was replaced tomorrow that would still be a small percentage of the cars on the road. Therefore Bloomberg can say "see...it's not ubiquitous yet". Meanwhile you're out of gig and you're curled up on the floor in the fetal position wisherpering....."not yet....not yet".


They're out there to provide a safer alternative.
Having constraints ie. Please don't rain Please don't turn right or left which ever oncoming traffic is coming. Please make space for me to merge. Please don't confuse me with colours.

Just little issues.

US drivers do 5 trillion miles a year. Waymo need about 6 billion miles to get meaningful data on safety. Then when they've screwed up back to square one.

Perhaps you think regulators are ok with a bit of carnage while they're practicing.

Pretty comfortable with decades if ever.

Moot point regardless. Doesn't help Uber.


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## Dhaw (Jun 28, 2017)

90% of new cars will be electric in 10 years and the vast majority will be using AI on a daily basis in cojusction with the driver.... who may be on his phone.. yes you read it here first


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Dhaw said:


> 90% of new cars will be electric in 10 years and the vast majority will be using AI on a daily basis in cojusction with the driver.... who may be on his phone.. yes you read it here first


"with driver" let's not confuse level 3 with level 5. Not bagging technology. Just limits. It's a bit like saying someone is going to run 100 metres in 9 seconds anytime soon. Why not? It's only half a second quicker than its being run now?


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Jefferson DDBY said:


> Do you know what the word "ubiquitous" means? Self driving cars do not have to be ubiquitous to replace you. If every single rideshare driver was replaced tomorrow that would still be a small percentage of the cars on the road. Therefore Bloomberg can say "see...it's not ubiquitous yet". Meanwhile you're out of gig and you're curled up on the floor in the fetal position wisherpering....."not yet....not yet".


Steve Wozniaks opinion should carry a little weight as well. I'm marking him down as someone more interested in credibility than dollars.

"Driverless cars are tipped to be the world-changing technology on the cusp of revolutionising our lives but Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak's personal experience has led him to believe it won't happen anytime soon."

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...n/news-story/14f087b4710a3932139351923da1902f


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Build that wall!


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## backstreets-trans (Aug 16, 2015)

Uber controlling all the financial info released. Those who think they are hiding profits while still borrowing billions at high interest rates are delusional. 

Uber wants the public to believe that they are going to be profitable. They are going to pump and dumb this turd as fast as possible during the IPO. When the real numbers come out the stock will crash.

No cab company no matter how big is worth a 120 billion. Just cause you can get drivers to deliver McDonald's happy meals doesn't mean more profits. 

Uber's numbers are improving only by screwing over and exploiting drivers more. When the economy slows things will just get worse for drivers.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

elle149 said:


> um yeah... for those who love headlines this is a winner
> 
> to anyone who understands the so called big picture..... this is landfill........


I seriously wish I had Uber's problems


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

People said the same exact thing about the Facebook IPO, event with the recent disaster


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## DriverA (Sep 8, 2018)

everythingsuber said:


> Hubert Horan. Always an informative read.
> 
> http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/will-uber-survive-the-next-decade.html
> 
> "Uber has never presented a case as to why it will ever be profitable, let alone earn an adequate return on capital. Investors are pinning their hopes on a successful IPO, which means finding greater fools in sufficient numbers"


Excellent article, my guess is this is being setup for ipo then a classic pump and dump scenario.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

everythingsuber said:


> which means finding greater fools in sufficient numbers"


That's a piece of cake. There's a fool born every second in this country.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> That's a piece of cake. There's a fool born every second in this country.


There's that. On the other hand you are looking for serious money though. Not the kind of money the guy on the street invests. It's hard to get a dodgy prospectus past people who know what they are doing.



Kodyhead said:


> are they testing self driving cars down there? Cause they are in my market
> 
> http://www.govtech.com/fs/Fords-Argo-AI-Welcomed-to-Miami-for-Self-Driving-Car-Testing.html
> 
> ...


I've watched them test a driverless bus around Elizabeth. Ok it's not Waymo but it was comedy gold. Over about a month up and down a small stretch of road near a local hospital. Quite othen it ended up getting pushed back to its starting point by workers from a nearby factory after refusing to do as it should. It's not Waymo though.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Dhaw said:


> 90% of new cars will be electric in 10 years and the vast majority will be using AI on a daily basis in cojusction with the driver.... who may be on his phone.. yes you read it here first


Most, if not all, commercial passenger airliners ten years old or newer is NOT flown by the pilot. It is flown by the on board computer. From takeoff to landing - all pre-programmed. The pilot and co is there in case of malfunction or something happening that the computer can't handle (like when Capt Sully took over that plane in NYC that sucked up some geese and killed engines). 
It can be argued, that operating a car is more complicated than flying. 
More variables.



DriverA said:


> Excellent article, my guess is this is being setup for ipo then a classic pump and dump scenario.


THIS ... IF they make it that far.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

everythingsuber said:


> There's that. On the other hand you are looking for serious money though. Not the kind of money the guy on the street invests.


A few years ago I had a conversation with a GM of a Las Vegas casino. He told me that the quarter player and not the whale was what built Vegas. He said you get an average of 2500 people that will gamble $2,000 compared to the 1 that gambles a million. That's a 5 to 1 ratio and why the general public will always be important in investing.


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## soontobeautomated (Apr 4, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> A few years ago I had a conversation with a GM of a Las Vegas casino. He told me that the quarter player and not the whale was what built Vegas. He said you get an average of 2500 people that will gamble $2,000 compared to the 1 that gambles a million. That's a 5 to 1 ratio and why the general public will always be important in investing.


Good point.

Except when I choose to play in Vegas and maybe throw away my money, whilst it is going down the drain, I get my hotel room comp'd (or discounted) and countless free drinks and buffets. So I get fed, drunk, nutrition (or calories at least), entertainment and maybe some rest.

A FUber investor is likely to get sleepless nights, lose the inclination to eat and maybe throw up as they read about the lastest failure that will need to be disclosed now they are public. Their shares will keep being diluted as they need more money to keep the company afloat.

Either way, you are likely to do your money. Occassionally you might get lucky in Vegas and retain your money. Some audult services in Clark Counry Nevada are prohibited. But there is no such prohibition if you purchase FUber shares - dare I say you are much more likely to get screwed if you buy FUber shares.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

everythingsuber said:


> Hubert Horan. Always an informative read.
> 
> http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/will-uber-survive-the-next-decade.html
> 
> "Uber has never presented a case as to why it will ever be profitable, let alone earn an adequate return on capital. Investors are pinning their hopes on a successful IPO, which means finding greater fools in sufficient numbers"


Not surprising.
The way they treat everyone around them.
Especially the Drivers who Built them !



everythingsuber said:


> There's that. On the other hand you are looking for serious money though. Not the kind of money the guy on the street invests. It's hard to get a dodgy prospectus past people who know what they are doing.
> 
> I've watched them test a driverless bus around Elizabeth. Ok it's not Waymo but it was comedy gold. Over about a month up and down a small stretch of road near a local hospital. Quite othen it ended up getting pushed back to its starting point by workers from a nearby factory after refusing to do as it should. It's not Waymo though.


The Investment Firms will Steal the money from the Retirement Accounts of Millions.
Worldwide.
As Always.
And make a nice Commission on each sale.
As Always.

Did they care about junk housing bonds ?
Insured by a company that could Not cover the Obligations ?

No.

The taxpayer covered it.

After Losing his Retirement.

Legal Theft.

Government Sanctioned.

BUSINESS AS USUAL.


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## majxl (Jan 6, 2017)

IPO in 2019?
Due to market conditions and the change of Wall Street interest from a company viewed as the leader in technology to a company wich is changing to a food delivery, scooters and bicycles rental outfit, the projected IPO is seriously in jeopardy in 2019. Serious financial difficulties are to be expected in 2020.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

soontobeautomated said:


> A FUber investor is likely to get sleepless nights, lose the inclination to eat and maybe throw up as they read about the lastest failure that will need to be disclosed now they are public.


I can't stop laughing. That is funny sh*t!!!


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

A B rating is considered a junk bond rating, Anyone who would consider that an investment should not be allowed to has cash.



everythingsuber said:


> There's that. On the other hand you are looking for serious money though. Not the kind of money the guy on the street invests. It's hard to get a dodgy prospectus past people who know what they are doing.
> 
> I've watched them test a driverless bus around Elizabeth. Ok it's not Waymo but it was comedy gold. Over about a month up and down a small stretch of road near a local hospital. Quite othen it ended up getting pushed back to its starting point by workers from a nearby factory after refusing to do as it should. It's not Waymo though.


Bernie Madoff did it for 20 plus years.


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

You go into business to make money.
You go out of business if you don't make money.
Amen.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Lowestformofwit said:


> You go out of business if you don't make money.


Nah, you just borrow more. Hell, look at the U.S., twenty two trillion in debt and still handing out trillions of free sh*t every year. Now I call that a successful business.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Nah, you just borrow more. Hell, look at the U.S., twenty two trillion in debt and still handing out trillions of free sh*t every year. Now I call that a successful business.


China & Russia still buying T Bill s


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

everythingsuber said:


> Can cite plenty of examples of gamblers throwing out good money chasing bad? Uber have pivoted about 5 times.
> Let's look at what they've diversified into.
> Driverless cars? Waymo / Google now admit decades away if ever.
> Flying taxis?.A few drawings powered by batteries that don't even exist.
> ...


I'm very disappointed ETU. I thought you were a little sharper than a lot of others.

The big picture to which you refer is obviously the value of the badges!

Kenneth Lay, CEO and Chairman of the $63 Billion ( LOL  ) valued mega Enron Corporation proudly boasted, before the collapse of that house of cards, that he and Enron would soon be charging customers for fresh air.

The intrinsic value of Über badges will one day come to be looked upon as the KKK - the Kooky Kalanick Krugerrands,

It is such a good time to be an Über driver. Protect those badges!

.


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## 95223 (Feb 21, 2017)

so for anyone reading the press today, Lance armstrong invested $100,000 in uber 2009

with the current valuation, those shares will be worth in excess of 3 BILLION once uber lists

it will also be a safe bet he was a minor investor....

BUT its important to not get off track here ..... - as per the article that this thread is about - 'apparently' Uber is headed for a crash .


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

Lance Armstrong isn’t big enough to be exempt from being brought low, as previously proven.
So can’t be held up as an example of anything.
Except previous unethical life standards.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

everythingsuber said:


> There's that. On the other hand you are looking for serious money though. Not the kind of money the guy on the street invests. It's hard to get a dodgy prospectus past people who know what they are doing.
> 
> I've watched them test a driverless bus around Elizabeth. Ok it's not Waymo but it was comedy gold. Over about a month up and down a small stretch of road near a local hospital. Quite othen it ended up getting pushed back to its starting point by workers from a nearby factory after refusing to do as it should. It's not Waymo though.


Was it the Greens Electioneering bus by any chance? LOL.

I can see it now...a Sarah Hanson-Hyphen cutout in the driver's seat. Please, don't tempt me for pictures.

.


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## CZ75 (Aug 10, 2018)

> Uber defenders might argue that that's a big improvement from 2015, when revenues only covered 43 percent of costs, and the GAAP margin was negative 132 percent. But as we'll discuss in more detail, this reduction in how much Uber spends to get each average dollar of revenue didn't come from improved efficiency, but was due to almost entirely to cutting driver pay. The transportation company appears to have hit the limit of how much it can squeeze drivers, since churn has increased.


No surprise, nice to see it acknowledged at least. And by the way, surges just got trashed here in DFW. Another pay cut.


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

*Uber Doesn't Have to Follow Pan Am's Tragic Arc*
Both companies grew exponentially, fueled by a frenzy of investment at astronomical valuations. It would be easy for Uber's story to end in bankruptcy as well.


> Pan Am was the world's first commercial airline, reducing journeys that once took weeks to days or even hours. Though initially priced to serve only the rich and famous, the airline drove technological advancements that brought costs down to the point that almost anyone could afford a flight. It forever changed the way we move.
> 
> At its height, Pan Am's empire stretched to six continents. Yet by the end of the century, the company that had pioneered and dominated an industry was bankrupt, dispossessing over 100,000 employees of their pensions and erasing billions of dollars of shareholder value.
> 
> ...


.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bl...er-doesn-t-have-to-follow-pan-am-s-tragic-arc


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

All the money they take from doing nothing but basically running and app and keeping often more than half of what the pax pays if they are not able to make a profit then they never will. They are pretty much at their peak. It's a taxi people don't use it for shites and grins only when they need it.

You know who did make a profit? Travis K got $1.3 billion because that's all they would let him sell and he has about $5 billion or more worth or private stock.



everythingsuber said:


> Can cite plenty of examples of gamblers throwing out good money chasing bad?
> Uber have pivoted about 5 times.
> 
> Let's look at what they've diversified into.
> ...


Yahoo paid $1.1 billion for Tumblr and now they want to remove all the porn making it worthless.
MySpace was bought for billions and no one uses it anymore.



elle149 said:


> facebook never presented a case of profitability.


But Uber did present a case and can't make a profit.

They blew a billion or more trying to enter China, which is state run so it means Uber would have had to divulge all their secrets to them.

The problem with Uber is you can see how it can be profitable, and you can't understand how it's not.

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Keep this in mind Travis cashed out as much as they let him or found stupid investors to buy his ponzi stock. If as Dana says Uber will be Amazon that means Travis would have left that money in there, and become the richest trillionaire in the world in 20 years.

The reason Travis cashed out is because he knows what Uber is.

Here is another reason why Uber is doomed, when a company is not doing well like Amazon when they were losing money they just fired 15,000 employees.

Uber doesn't have employees, they have free cars, free gas, free maintenance and free labor and give the drivers a taste of some of the money the pax pay. .....and Uber still can't make money. They have no one to fire and they still can't make money. So to make matter worse they throw billions into self driving cars that would cost them a fortune to invest in and run if that even becomes viable in the next 10 years it may be too expensive for them when they have free cars, gas and labor now.

Uber has other problems too such as minimum wage laws for NYC drivers to contend with as well as laws in other countries such as in Europe where they are fair to workers and not only for the rich and huge corporations.


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

peteyvavs said:


> Uber is in for a rude awakening, the stock market is going to crash before they go IPO, and then Uber will blame the drivers.





backstreets-trans said:


> Uber's numbers are improving only by screwing over and exploiting drivers more. When the economy slows things will just get worse for drivers.


From the article:
"While Uber has reduced its negative gross margin over time, those improvements have come mainly from squeezing driver compensation, so that they now net less per hour on average than taxi operators."


FernandoPoe V1 said:


> I'd argue with you but my daddy once told me never to argue with special people as it hurts their feelings... Gday!


And for that reason, I won't be wasting words on you either.


Dhaw said:


> 90% of new cars will be electric in 10 years and the vast majority will be using AI on a daily basis in cojusction with the driver.... who may be on his phone.. yes you read it here first


But there will still be a warm bum in the seat behind the steering wheel.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

elle149 said:


> facebook never presented a case of profitability.
> nor did snapchat,nor did instagram
> etc etc etc
> profit was never 'touted' as their core business !
> ...


Facebook went public BEFORE implementing an advertising model BUT analysts were aware it was coming.

Uber IPO is just another cash grab to finance laying a chapter 11 destiny



Lee239 said:


> All the money they take from doing nothing but basically running and app and keeping often more than half of what the pax pays if they are not able to make a profit then they never will. They are pretty much at their peak. It's a taxi people don't use it for shites and grins only when they need it.
> 
> You know who did make a profit? Travis K got $1.3 billion because that's all they would let him sell and he has about $5 billion or more worth or private stock.
> 
> ...


Jeff Bezos just foretold the Amazon bankruptcy with the caveat "unless we evolve the business model"



majxl said:


> IPO in 2019?
> Due to market conditions and the change of Wall Street interest from a company viewed as the leader in technology to a company wich is changing to a food delivery, scooters and bicycles rental outfit, the projected IPO is seriously in jeopardy in 2019. Serious financial difficulties are to be expected in 2020.


YES!

A logical perspective


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## dryverjohn (Jun 3, 2018)

everythingsuber said:


> Can cite plenty of examples of gamblers throwing out good money chasing bad?
> Uber have pivoted about 5 times.
> 
> Let's look at what they've diversified into.
> ...


Curious on the bikes, is there any reason that disgruntled Uber drivers couldn't just throw all bikes in the closest lake? I could see bike retrieval from water as a new gig job.


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