# Will Uber Tell Your Insurance Company???



## Shawneric

It's more than abundantly clear: The vast majority, if not all, insurance companies will not just 'not cover you' if you rideshare, but if they find out you're ridesharing at all with your vehicle, they'll cut your insurance policy off entirely and deny any and all claims, EVEN if you're not actively on the clock with Uber. Although Uber covers you while you're on the clock, here's my question:

1. If you get into an accident while on the clock for Uber, will your personal insurance company find out even if you only file the claim with Uber?
2. Is it Insurance fraud if you just don't tell your personal insurance company that you're driving for Uber?


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## ChrisInABQ

My policy states that they will not cover "liability arising out of the ownership or operation of a vehicle while it is being used as a public or livery conveyance." That tells me that when I don't have the app on (read: not "online" or in "driver mode"), I am covered (after which, they will likely decide NOT to renew my policy if they find out I rideshare). If I have the app on and have not either accepted a request or with pax in the car, I really don't know if I'm covered. My guess is that they'll ask me if I was operating my vehicle for public or livery conveyance at that time. I really don't know the answer to that question...I think it's a gray area that can be argued either way. If I'm commuting from my regular job and turn on my apps, is my vehicle "being used as a public or livery conveyance"? I would argue not, but I assume they will argue Yes, and they can afford better lawyers than I can!

If at any time you are asked whether you use or intend to use your vehicle for ridersharing/livery/public conveyance, and then answer "No" knowing that you are in fact doing so, I think everyone can agree that this is fraud. Fraud has to be intentional, and that could be proven as intentional. Now, when I got my policy, I wasn't asked such a question, nor had I ever considered driving at that time, so I haven't committed fraud.

You asked about being in an accident while on the clock for Uber/Lyft, in which your definition of "on the clock" isn't written in black-n-white and open to discussion. Uber spells it out for us when each of the three levels of coverage are in effect. If you've either accepted a request and enroute or with pax in your vehicle, I believe Uber insurance requires that you file with your personal policy and will only kick-in once your personal policy has denied or limited coverage. So Yes, they will find out, and that's not going to go over well.


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## Actionjax

Here in Canada I was asked 3 things.

1) How many KM am I using my car (Answered some high number)
2) Do I use it to commute back and forth to work (Answered Yes)
3) Do you plan on using your car to transport others. (Answered Yes where they asked what type of transport I answered car pool that can include known and pre arranged strangers for money to cover expensed)

As far as I'm concerned I am covered.

I don't use Uber as a full time job. It's on and off for me between my drive from home to the office and back.

I would say call your insurance company anonymously and ask the questions. If they say no ask where it is in the policy. Then ask if the money if not for profit but to cover expenses is it considered lively.

Be creative in the way you think on what Uber is or how it is defined.


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

ChrisInABQ said:


> My policy states that they will not cover "liability arising out of the ownership or operation of a vehicle while it is being used as a public or livery conveyance." That tells me that when I don't have the app on (read: not "online" or in "driver mode"), I am covered


And to a different person (for example, an insurance agent), it tells them that you are not covered ever, because once you start Ubering period, your car is now "being used as a public or livery conveyance" no matter whether the app is on or not.


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## observer

When an insurance company has to pay out money there is no "gray area". It's always going to be in their favor, if they find out about you using THEIR policy for you to drive for money. Getting paid to drive passengers is not carpooling. Being creative is fine when you are arranging flowers or painting landscapes, not so much when you are risking your shaky financial situation.


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## Ross

You can bet on having your insurance dropped once they find out what you’re doing, its only a matter of time. This is why insurance companies offer For Hire insurance vs comprehensive / full coverage you can buy with you operate such a car. A For Higher driver is about ten times more likely to be involved in an accident than one who isn’t. This is based simply on miles driven of the average person. I’m not saying you’re a bad driver, its just you’re on the road a lot more than ones who don’t drive for a living. Its not if, its when it happens. I’m confident in my driving skills, its everyone else I’m worried about.

I myself have been involved in two accidents this year alone. Neither was because of my actions, just simply at the wrong place at the wrong time. One resulted in my Town Car being totaled and the more recent one simply took out the right fender and passenger side headlamp. I had a passenger when my Lincoln was raped by a speeding Prius, and thankfully insurance coved everything.


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## MoneyUber4

Note: All Insurance Companies share information on regards to any violation done by clients (you). 

Auto policies are provided and serviced by the Property Casualty Insurance Association of America (PCIAA) (Now Canada and Mexico are on it too)
If your policy get dump by any reason, all other carriers will get a note from you current Insurance Company. 

In other words, it might be difficult to get a new policy without getting a surcharge or would you have to be covered under a "Non Insurable client" by a Surplus Line Liability Insurance Company. Blink!! Red Alert!! It is going to cost you much more.....


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

MoneyUber4 said:


> Note: All Insurance Companies share information on regards to any violation done by clients (you).
> 
> Auto policies are provided and serviced by the Property Casualty Insurance Association of America (PCIAA) (Now Canada and Mexico are on it too)
> If your policy get dump by any reason, all other carriers will get a note from you current Insurance Company.
> 
> In other words, it might be difficult to get a new policy without getting a surcharge or would you have to be covered under a "Non Insurable client" by a Surplus Line Liability Insurance Company. Blink!! Red Alert!! It is going to cost you much more.....


Don't worry I'm sure 1 email to Uber will have them making up the difference in your insurance premiums each month for the rest of your natural life .


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## MoneyUber4

Excuse my Spanish. On regards to your first question on regards of Uber notifying your current carrier. Yes, Uber insurance carrier (James River Ins. Com) I called "Cry me a River Insurance Co." will be in contact with your company and try to mitigate for paying all or some costs of the accident. But as you know, your Insurance Company is a personal line policy. Your ins. company will denied any payment and will be happy to return your insurance payment (premium of policy) in order not to pay (and this is legal). Next, they will dump you on the spot as a risky driver.


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## MoneyUber4

Best information is on the P&C Newspaper. 
More information form the P & C Insurance Association of America (PCIAA) - Please visit their web page,.
Ride Sharing service still not completely clear, for State to State laws see http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2014/06/27/332942.htm


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## observer

MoneyUber4 said:


> Best information is on the P&C Newspaper.
> More information form the P & C Insurance Association of America (PCIAA) - Please visit their web page,.
> Ride Sharing service still not completely clear, for State to State laws see http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2014/06/27/332942.htm


Very interesting article. I did notice that in California the CPUC is mandating 5K medical coverage. Sure you are covered up to 5K, drivers will be responsible for all costs above that. Anyone been in a hospital lately? Thats about a days worth of coverage. Sure, you are insured but you are still underinsured. And the DRIVER is still responsible.


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## MoneyUber4

I see that $5K for medical is the cost of an Ambulance ride (5 minutes ride).


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

5k? that's like a paper cut.


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## observer

MoneyUber4 said:


> I see that $5K for medical is the cost of an Ambulance ride (5 minutes ride).


Now, what happens in a serious accident requiring surgeries and specialists. 5K is chump change.


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## Lidman

I'm not sure how UBER would benefit by contacting ones insurance company. For example if a drivers insurance gets cancelled due to the company finding out they drive for uber, well uber loses a driver.


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## observer

The CPUC should mandate that TNC's be responsible for all liabilities. Nothing less than that is acceptable.


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## MoneyUber4

I hope we can get more information from Uber or someone who already got into an accident. I know Uber or Cry Me River Insurance Company don't want to eat that pie.


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## MoneyUber4

observer said:


> Now, what happens in a serious accident requiring surgeries and specialists. 5K is chump change.


I hope we can get more information from Uber or someone who already got into an accident. I know Uber or Cry Me River Insurance Company don't want to eat that pie.


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## observer

Lidman said:


> I'm not sure how UBER would benefit by contacting ones insurance company. For example if a drivers insurance gets cancelled due to the company finding out they drive for uber, well uber loses a driver.


If you lose one hair out of your head, do you notice? (I do, but I don't have that many left!!). Drivers are a dime a dozen for Uber.


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## MoneyUber4

Lidman said:


> I'm not sure how UBER would benefit by contacting ones insurance company. For example if a drivers insurance gets cancelled due to the company finding out they drive for uber, well uber loses a driver.


I am an active driver and I have nothing against working with Uber or Lyft. But these two or three companies (sidecar) are not playing fair nor disclosing what it is at risk to the drivers or passengers. What they do? Still like confident and private. They don't tell us the fact but a vague reply with wording: We will back you up 100% that is until you get into an "accident" then you are disconnected. It is like we don't know you and have nothing to do with that mess.


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## MoneyUber4

They said UBER is 40 Billion Company worth Watch this video


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## MoneyUberAlles

With as much money as Uber is taking in, they could easily self insure. Accidents are not all that common, and damages are minimal in comparison to what they are raking in. 

That stupid "safe ride fee" of $1 per ride will probably cover whatever damages they actually have to pay out. If not, the actual costs would only represent a single digit percentage of revenue. Low single digit at that.


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## MoneyUber4

I am


MoneyUberAlles said:


> With as much money as Uber is taking in, they could easily self insure. Accidents are not all that common, and damages are minimal in comparison to what they are raking in.
> 
> That stupid "safe ride fee" of $1 per ride will probably cover whatever damages they actually have to pay out. If not, the actual costs would only represent a single digit percentage of revenue. Low single digit at that.


Lyft charge $1.50 to riders but that is charged directly to the riders and not taken off from Driver's earnings
+ they have a tipping o option on the application. 
Payments with Uber is like this $5.00 ride ($1.00 Insurance fee +$0.80 is 20% to Uber) Driver gets $3.20
Lyft charge riders $5.00 + 1.50 Insurance Lyft gets $1.00 is 20% of $5 Driver gets $4.00 + any tip given by rider.


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## MoneyUber4

I am signing off. No more posting from me. I am out of Lyft and Uber by next week.

The end of this story will be that UBER X and regular LYFT will be eliminated by not complying with Insurance.

Uber and Lyft will continue giving their MATCHING services (drivers and riders) 20% charge as they have nothing at risk.

I hope that you don't get affected like the Houston driver, accident of Dec 6, 2014 http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/27656550/accident-leaves-houston-uber-driver-with-regrets

Good luck to ALL, be SAFE! And as they say in Wall Street, New York "Please, The last one to leave the office "TURN OFF THE LIGHT".

Good luck!!


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## Sydney Uber

Ross said:


> You can bet on having your insurance dropped once they find out what you're doing, its only a matter of time. This is why insurance companies offer For Hire insurance vs comprehensive / full coverage you can buy with you operate such a car. A For Higher driver is about ten times more likely to be involved in an accident than one who isn't. This is based simply on miles driven of the average person. I'm not saying you're a bad driver, its just you're on the road a lot more than ones who don't drive for a living. Its not if, its when it happens. I'm confident in my driving skills, its everyone else I'm worried about.
> 
> I myself have been involved in two accidents this year alone. Neither was because of my actions, just simply at the wrong place at the wrong time. One resulted in my Town Car being totaled and the more recent one simply took out the right fender and passenger side headlamp. I had a passenger when my Lincoln was raped by a speeding Prius, and thankfully insurance coved everything.


Actually I believe if an insurance company "finds out" a privately registered car is being used for rideshare/taxi/for hire work it simply flags your file and does nothing.

Insurance companies are happy to take years of insurance premiums from drivers but when there is a claim from a flagged policy holder they hit them with the bad news that you're not covered.

They have spies everywhere. Reminds me of my car club days. A friend in his 2litre Ford Escort had a small off track excursion on a track day. Not much damage but the side of the car needed repair. He made a claim against his policy saying he was run off the road.

Anyhow the insurance company came back to him telling him that they knew that it was damaged in a race track incident (which isn't covered), the time of the incident and what part of the track. He was also told that they were cancelling his insurance with no refunds and if he wanted to argue the point they would have him charged for insurance fraud.

He had great difficulty getting insurance again, only through a Broker and paying higher rates for about 5 years.


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## Bob Smith

MoneyUberAlles said:


> With as much money as Uber is taking in, they could easily self insure. Accidents are not all that common, and damages are minimal in comparison to what they are raking in.
> 
> That stupid "safe ride fee" of $1 per ride will probably cover whatever damages they actually have to pay out. If not, the actual costs would only represent a single digit percentage of revenue. Low single digit at that.


That's true however, if Uber insured itself it would be open to people getting into accidents on purpose for insurance money.


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