# Black Market Ants



## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

Lots of stories lately about Uber getting kicked out of this city or that. Plus with the ever decreasing rates for drivers, while Uber/Lyft takes the lion's share of the fares, in my opinion will only lead to the likelyhood that drivers will begin taking their business profits into their own hands.










https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/u...rease-if-uber-lyft-pull-out-of-sky-harbor.amp
I believe this prediction is true. I know for a fact 3 drivers here will do tonight (NYE) what they have been doing for the past year at high demand venues; turn off the app and make their own money.

Flat surge what?


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

BINGO!


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

uber pay is so bad there is just zero profit in driving . just give the pax 25 % off of what the app charges to pay cash. I think this is how there doing it .


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

This goes on now, but the penalty is stiff. Stings are conducted resulting in towing and heavy fines unfortunately. Be careful.


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## #professoruber (Feb 19, 2018)

That explains all the available led signs I have been seeing as of lately. They are genius!


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Uber's Guber said:


> This goes on now, but the penalty is stiff. Stings are conducted resulting in towing and heavy fines unfortunately. Be careful.


It gets talked about on the LA forum but it's probably such a tiny % of the business that Uber doesn't notice.

I don't do it.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Ya I noticed more talk about privates .


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Lissetti said:


> Lots of stories lately about Uber getting kicked out of this city or that. Plus with the ever decreasing rates for drivers, while Uber/Lyft takes the lion's share of the fares, in my opinion will only lead to the likelyhood that drivers will begin taking their business profits into their own hands.
> 
> View attachment 395286
> 
> ...


Uber and Lyft began as black market ride share, karma is a bi..ch.



kingcorey321 said:


> uber pay is so bad there is just zero profit in driving . just give the pax 25 % off of what the app charges to pay cash. I think this is how there doing it .


I already do, it works out very well.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

.....right up to the moment they are in a accident. then the jig is up and sing sing here they go.


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

even bigger news:

Welcome t o 4 years ago.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

See username.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

#professoruber said:


> That explains all the available led signs I have been seeing as of lately. They are genius!


They are " TECHNOLOGY DRIVERS " !


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

The Entomologist said:


> even bigger news:
> 
> Welcome t o 4 years ago.


A few years ago shameless had a whole season of Carl pulling up to people doing the Uber dance doing rides ********* isn't new

Libretaxi.org isn't new anyone can use to facilitate rides in their city, probably just as safe as Uber Lyft me personally I'm an adult so I buy cars

I'm sure every city has least 100 like me who poach the good airport riders & least 1000 that work venues or spots with an Uber sticker app off taking best offer from the cash waving drunkards to busy to wait on the hundred Uber lyfts just called when the venue let's out

Far as police at that time they just want everyone gone & the block cleared stings unlikely and those doing like that have back up & shared accounts

Whole thing is lawless at this point wtf I look like doing a $4 gross ride when they'll happily give me 10+ cash just to go

Then it's human nature they really think their so clever they can steal from you like you can't steal back a hundred different ways

It's really the worse evil backwards "company" I've ever had the pleasure of working for it more comical than anything none of it's remotely legal about them at this point lol

They just flat out steal & ignore messages now like they'll give up it's only $3 which takes approximately 10 different Apu bots & 10+ messages to resolve if it ever does get resolved



SHalester said:


> .....right up to the moment they are in a accident. then the jig is up and sing sing here they go.


Pretty much same story if you get in an accident with Uber Lyft

Jig immediately up as Uber Lyft immediately deactivate you so $1000 for Uber $2500 for Lyft most accidents even minor means least a week downtime

At $3-4 gross on most rides under 10 miles which is 85+% of rides that's $1 or less net so 1000-2500 rides or 30 rides a day every month

Congrats 1 accident means 1-2+ months minimum of free labor hope it was a fully depreciated xl only vehicle worth less than the deductible because at .60 per mile you're losing money on every ride not going 20+ miles lol

Or hopefully they saved enough to buy a new car & get it signed on next day or rent a car for working 40+ hours JUST for the rental lol

Plebs got choices mane


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

ive done some at Levi stadium and the Shoreline when both were a shit show

i try not to, but after an hour, I'm making money, eff it


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

troothequalstroll said:


> Pretty much same story if you get in an accident with Uber Lyft


which is why I don't depend on Uber for my insurance needs. Can we say 'RS rider'? Sure we can.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

It's extremely easy to do.

When it's surging or drivers are long distances away it's VERY easy. (i drive a taxi so when I do it it's legal)

Most customers also don't get that the driver has zero insurance if they don't book through the app.


I'd have to say 3/4 of customers don't know that the driver has no insurance, and 3/4 don't care.


And when uber is taking a huge % of the fare the motivation to do it gets higher and higher.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

SHalester said:


> .....right up to the moment they are in a accident. then the jig is up and sing sing here they go.


I carry 100/300 personal auto insurance and a 1 million dollar umbrella liability policy


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> I carry 100/300 personal auto insurance and a 1 million dollar umbrella liability policy


I do as well, tho the umbrella is not active when I have a pax, or so the agent says. No biggie the other auto ins is, plus Uber's coverage. I'd rather have the insurance companies argue with each other vs having not enough or no insurance.........


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

About 50 miles outside the Seattle, in farm country heading towards the foothills of the mountains, we have this venue called the White River Amphitheatre. Cell reception out there is spotty, even on Verizon. There's a single highway going to and from this place.










When a concert lets out, there's thousands of pax requesting rides all at once, plus hundreds of Ants. This is always when both Uber and Lyft apps become inaccessible to both drivers and riders.

If we are lucky enough to be able to receive a ride request, and accept it, we are on our own in locating our pax from the thousands of other pax. Our GPS wont work and neither will text or phone calls. You can't even get the app to work enough to cancel the pax until you drive about 7 miles out of the area.

It's at this point the pax become desperate, worried about being stranded way out in the boonies after 1:00 AM and begin walking up to any random car, U/L or just regular fellow concert goer and begin offering large amounts of cash for someone to just take them back to Seattle where they can for certain get an Uber home from there.

This is where the Ants with the square readers and/or cash takers begin making deals.

My one time working this venue, a woman tapped on my window during this chaos and offered me $100. cash to take her to west Seattle, a normally $45 fare for a ride that distance. I was about to say, "Hell yeah!" Why should I leave empty handed? But....there was just something about how she was looking at me awaiting my response. I had a gut feeling to say no. I always listen to my instincts when they are that strong, no matter how irrational it seems.

I told her I was sorry but its against Ubers terms to accept a cash ride. She gave me another strange look (pleased) and moved onto other Ants. Uber only. She bypassed 3 Lyft drivers to go talk to other Uber drivers. I saw her get in one of the cars. I left empty handed. Drove 50 miles all the way to Seattle with no fare and decided to try and salvage my night and work the bar rush.

My gut told me she was an Uber employee. We have an HQ2 here. Uber employees get in my car all the time. They have a certain aura about them. I've never been fooled by them before and I wasn't taking chances now.

I may have been completely wrong about her, but I lived to Ant another day.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Lissetti said:


> About 50 miles outside the Seattle, in farm country heading towards the foothills of the mountains, we have this venue called the White River Amphitheatre. Cell reception out there is spotty, even on Verizon. There's a single highway going to and from this place.
> 
> View attachment 396107
> 
> ...


Trust your gut feeling! You did good.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Lissetti said:


> About 50 miles outside the Seattle, in farm country heading towards the foothills of the mountains, we have this venue called the White River Amphitheatre. Cell reception out there is spotty, even on Verizon. There's a single highway going to and from this place.
> 
> View attachment 396107
> 
> ...


Uber can not penalize any driver for accepting private deals as long as you didn't cancel a request to cut Uber out.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

peteyvavs said:


> I carry 100/300 personal auto insurance and a 1 million dollar umbrella liability policy


Personal auto insurance won't cover you in an accident. You need commerical. Good luck


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

islanddriver said:


> Personal auto insurance won't cover you in an accident. You need commerical. Good luck


That's why I carry personal liability insurance for a million. It's cheaper then commercial insurance and covers me in other ways besides driving.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Lissetti said:


> About 50 miles outside the Seattle, in farm country heading towards the foothills of the mountains, we have this venue called the White River Amphitheatre. Cell reception out there is spotty, even on Verizon. There's a single highway going to and from this place.
> 
> View attachment 396107
> 
> ...


Look at the positive side, you found a new site to dump the bodies of ahole pax's.


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Lissetti said:


> I told her I was sorry but its against Ubers terms to accept a cash ride.


Only if you used Uber to find that pax.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

peteyvavs said:


> That's why I carry personal liability insurance for a million. It's cheaper then commercial insurance and covers me in other ways besides driving.


Personal insurance won't cover you for ride share or commercial use. Check your policy.


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

lyft_rat said:


> Only if you used Uber to find that pax.


I have accepted cash on rides many times. However I never identified myself as rideshare driver even when asked. There was no trade dress anywhere present. After a Seakawks game or concert lets out, and Uber's flat surge isn't worth my time, I simply do not go online, hide my app and but sit parked at the curb next to many other rideshare drivers. After most have came and went, I'm still there along with the taxis and a few straggling Ants. At this point some one walks up to my car an asks if I'm Uber or Lyft. I tell them no, I just dropped off my friend who works at the stadium.

They look at each other then ask if I would mind giving them a ride home if they pay me, becasue all the Ubers and Lyfts have gone/canceled/shuffled....

We talk money, and usually its good, so I take them. I only do this with female pax, usually 2 or more. They see my dash cam. It's obvious to them I drive some sort of commercial driving, and they ask again if I'm rideshare. I tell them no I do Amazon Flex. Then its basically left unsaid what we all know.....but prove it.

However at the White River Amphitheater, I did have a request I had already accepted, but had no way of finding "John" with now having no service. In order to take this lady with the $100. I would have had to hit cancel on John, let her get in the car, and ride while John's name is still on my app, because the cancel would not go through until I got 7 miles away. That's a situation I don't think would go over well with Uber.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Lissetti said:


> I have accepted cash on rides many times. However I never identified myself as rideshare driver even when asked. There was no trade dress anywhere present. After a Seakawks game or concert lets out, and Uber's flat surge isn't worth my time, I simply do not go online, hide my app and but sit parked at the curb next to many other rideshare drivers. After most have came and went, I'm still there along with the taxis and a few straggling Ants. At this point some one walks up to my car an asks if I'm Uber or Lyft. I tell them no, I just dropped off my friend who works at the stadium.
> 
> They look at each other then ask if I would mind giving them a ride home if they pay me, becasue all the Ubers and Lyfts have gone/canceled/shuffled....
> 
> ...


More then half the rides I give are cash rides, Uber can KMA.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Lissetti said:


> About 50 miles outside the Seattle, in farm country heading towards the foothills of the mountains, we have this venue called the White River Amphitheatre. Cell reception out there is spotty, even on Verizon. There's a single highway going to and from this place.
> 
> View attachment 396107
> 
> ...


In Philly we have undercover Philadelphia Parking Authority agents (glorified meter-maids) that offer cash for rides at the stadiums after events. I've heard stories of them working the airport as well. If you get busted taking a cash ride the fine is upwards of a grand and they can tow your car on the spot.


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

mch said:


> In Philly we have undercover Philadelphia Parking Authority agents (glorified meter-maids) that offer cash for rides at the stadiums after events. I've heard stories of them working the airport as well. If you get busted taking a cash ride the fine is upwards of a grand and they can tow your car on the spot.


That's if I'm a rideshare driver operating as one. Are you saying I can't use my private vehicle to give someone a ride in exchange for gas money and inconvenience? As long as I have no trade dress visible, no app visible, do not state I'm a rideshare driver but will do this off app for cash, I think I'm OK? &#129335;‍♀

I'll ask local a Seattle local driver who does private rides his opinion.

@DexNex?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Lissetti said:


> Are you saying I can't use my private vehicle to give someone a ride in exchange for gas


best to ask your insurance agent as that the primary reason not to do cash rides. You are using your vehicle for commercial purpose and ins companies more than frown on that, they won't cover any accidents as it is in writing it voids coverage.


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## JaxUberLyft (Jan 9, 2019)

I'll bet it is certainly illegal in most cities to offer rides for cash to walkups. Only licensed livery drivers (in other words, TAXIS) can legally do that. How else did the Taxi industry maintain its monopoly of high rates, dirty cars and poor service in the decades BEFORE U/L showed up?


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

SHalester said:


> best to ask your insurance agent as that the primary reason not to do cash rides. You are using your vehicle for commercial purpose and ins companies more than frown on that, they won't cover any accidents as it is in writing it voids coverage.


My insurance policy covers any passenger I have. Full coverage. So....If my friend Andre asked me to give him a ride from Seattle to a trucking terminal 25 miles away, and I said, "Hey bro, gas ain't free, plus I had other plans today," and he said, "I'll pay you." How would that work?

Why would it be any different for a total stranger? I did stop at the side of the freeway last week and give a lady and her daughter a ride to the gas station and then back to her stranded car. She paid me...

Just curious about how rideshare has changed the game where before it was just considered picking up hitchhikers. Isn't that where this saying came from?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Lissetti said:


> My insurance policy covers any passenger I have.


Really really think you need to speak to your insurance agent and lay it out to them. If you taking 'funds' that (to them) is commercial. Now friends, family etc that 'reimburse' you is quite different than a total complete stranger you 'negotiate' with. 
Most, if not all, auto insurance coverage void coverage when vehicle used for commercial purposes. And that includes a RS rider, which isn't what you have laid out.

Only opinion that matters here is your insurance agent. Can't hurt to ask them....much....

PLus you have the legal aspect of this as well. That you get fined or go to jail. An accident not covered, you are done financially.

Not worth 'not knowing' for sure and it is easy to find out. Call.


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## Kewl-driver (Aug 24, 2018)

It’s nothing new, way before Uber and Lyft here in Connecticut we called them ********* people using their personal car waiting at the train station to pick up passengers.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Lissetti said:


> Lots of stories lately about Uber getting kicked out of this city or that. Plus with the ever decreasing rates for drivers, while Uber/Lyft takes the lion's share of the fares, in my opinion will only lead to the likelyhood that drivers will begin taking their business profits into their own hands.
> 
> View attachment 395286
> 
> ...


Honestly I believe a peer to peer platform will be the future of rideshare.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Lissetti said:


> That's if I'm a rideshare driver operating as one. Are you saying I can't use my private vehicle to give someone a ride in exchange for gas money and inconvenience? As long as I have no trade dress visible, no app visible, do not state I'm a rideshare driver but will do this off app for cash, I think I'm OK? &#129335;‍♀
> 
> I'll ask local a Seattle local driver who does private rides his opinion.
> 
> @DexNex?


I would guess as long as you have the proper permits (there are always permits) you're fine. In Philly you need some certification to get paid to drive people unless you are doing it for one of the rideshare companies.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Lissetti said:


> My insurance policy covers any passenger I have. Full coverage. So....If my friend Andre asked me to give him a ride from Seattle to a trucking terminal 25 miles away, and I said, "Hey bro, gas ain't free, plus I had other plans today," and he said, "I'll pay you." How would that work?
> 
> Why would it be any different for a total stranger? I did stop at the side of the freeway last week and give a lady and her daughter a ride to the gas station and then back to her stranded car. She paid me...
> 
> ...


This is generally called "Street Hailing". Probably some other terms for it. Most places, you must be properly licensed to accept a "Street Hail". IE: give someone a ride for cash/money. There can be State licensing/permits required as well as local. TNC drivers are exempt in most places from needing these licenses. But you aren't driving for a TNC if you take a cash ride.

Just a quick Google for Washington: https://dor.wa.gov/state-endorsements/vehicle-hire-taxi ..... sure there are other regs for Seattle (shrug).

All is good in your above example. Unless, you are in an accident, the PAX gets injured, the insurance adjuster contacts them and learns they don't know you and paid you for a ride. Your claim is now denied by the insurance company and you are liable for any/all damages and injuries. Find a good lawyer as the "bro" you asked for some gas money from now wants his emergency room and ambulance costs paid for.

Ok.... so just paying those bills might end up being cheaper than a lawyer. Provided they don't want "Pain, suffering, snowflake tears shed, and time from worked missed".


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Lissetti said:


> I have accepted cash on rides many times. However I never identified myself as rideshare driver even when asked. There was no trade dress anywhere present. After a Seakawks game or concert lets out, and Uber's flat surge isn't worth my time, I simply do not go online, hide my app and but sit parked at the curb next to many other rideshare drivers. After most have came and went, I'm still there along with the taxis and a few straggling Ants. At this point some one walks up to my car an asks if I'm Uber or Lyft. I tell them no, I just dropped off my friend who works at the stadium.
> 
> They look at each other then ask if I would mind giving them a ride home if they pay me, becasue all the Ubers and Lyfts have gone/canceled/shuffled....
> 
> ...


just be sure you absolutely don't have an accident, even a not at fault just to be safe


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

mch said:


> In Philly we have undercover Philadelphia Parking Authority agents (glorified meter-maids) that offer cash for rides at the stadiums after events. I've heard stories of them working the airport as well. If you get busted taking a cash ride the fine is upwards of a grand and they can tow your car on the spot.


Actually if you carry rideshare insurance there is no rule that you can't hire out privately


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

peteyvavs said:


> Actually if you carry rideshare insurance there is no rule that you can't hire out privately


Uhh, rideshare insurance or COMMERCIAL FOR-HIRE INSURANCE,

two completely different situations. You may also find yourself on the wrong side of the taxi laws if your picking people up off the street.

Rideshare insurance = regular insurance that allows you to rideshare
(About $10.00 per month more than regular insurance)

Commercial for-hire insurance (name varies) provides coverage sufficient in your locale to driver passengers for compensation.
$250+ more than regular insurance


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Uhh, rideshare insurance or COMMERCIAL FOR-HIRE INSURANCE,
> 
> two completely different situations. You may also find yourself on the wrong side of the taxi laws if your picking people up off the street.
> 
> ...


i believe the TCP's have the necessary permits AND commercial insurance to do street hails, is that right ? never done UberBlack myself


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> i believe the TCP's have the necessary permits AND commercial insurance to do street hails, is that right ? never done UberBlack myself


Yes. I have commercial insurance, and am registered by the state as a limo.


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

Cash rides require strategy and rarity.

Full chaos zones and don't go to the well too many times.

Plenty of other opportunities out there that are less risky.

Once you establish a pattern, your days are numbered.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> Actually if you carry rideshare insurance there is no rule that you can't hire out privately


For your RS rider, maybe. State Farm for the rider to be active app must be on and driver is online. State Farm excludes commercial use, period; hence need for a rider. So your mileage may differ depending on which insurance you have.


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