# Insurance co



## Duke of Randolph

Hello. For massachusetts drivers... Any one know which insurance company covers Uber drivers...Liberty mutual doesnt. 

Thanks


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## scrurbscrud

Duke of Randolph said:


> Hello. For massachusetts drivers... Any one know which insurance company covers Uber drivers...*Liberty mutual doesnt. *
> 
> Thanks


*Add them to the list* of State Farm, Geico, Esurance, Progressive and now, LIBERTY MUTUAL.


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## Duke of Randolph

They need to get eith the program and change their policies. . So does everyone drive without insurmance. Uber said they wont cover drivers as its up to the drivers personal insurance... But my personal insirance wont cover me for uber driving


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## scrurbscrud

Duke of Randolph said:


> They need to get eith the program and change their policies. . So does everyone drive without insurmance. Uber said they wont cover drivers as its up to the drivers personal insurance... But my personal insirance wont cover me for uber driving


Yeah, I think you got the picture. Ask me if Uber or Lyft gives a damn. It was entirely up to YOU and YOU ALONE to check. And their policy I'm sure is at least contingent on YOU having a valid policy as well.

Good luck, and God Bless.


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## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> Yeah, I think you got the picture. Ask me if Uber or Lyft gives a damn. It was entirely up to YOU and YOU ALONE to check. And their policy I'm sure is at least contingent on YOU having a valid policy as well.
> 
> Good luck, and God Bless.


And drivers surely realize that even if a hybrid policy is created, it is going to cost more money. There is no way around it. For the life of me, I do not understand why so many drivers believe that because of a phone app, they can somehow do things cheaper, safer, and more efficiently than those who have been paying out the nose for insurance, training, and maintenance for years. There is a level of fixed costs which apply no matter how you get your reservation.


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## Duke of Randolph

Well it sux cause i love to drive for uber but i wont risk it if im not covered. I need to find insurance that covers me and my paid riders before i get back on the road. 

Ive already had one ticket for driving for uber for 500 bucks.. (uber paid the fine) . But if i were in an accident.... Im screwed


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## scrurbscrud

Duke of Randolph said:


> Well it sux cause i love to drive for uber but i wont risk it if im not covered. I need to find insurance that covers me and my paid riders before i get back on the road.
> 
> Ive already had one ticket for driving for uber for 500 bucks.. (uber paid the fine) . But if i were in an accident.... Im screwed


I'm currently working on the issue. The agent already told me that part timers are not even going to be considered on the radar, at least for now. The insurance companies appear to know that part timers sure as hell are not going to pay 5-6 grand a year to 'Uber on weekends.' Why waste even getting a rate on them or put their actuaries to work for nothing.

At least they are intelligent about it.


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## Duke of Randolph

Does anyone have insurance that covers your uber driving? If so which one?


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## Duke of Randolph

If uber gave drivers a 401k, health benefits and car insurance... Id go full time bit i doubt theyd offer full time to drivers. Defeats the purpose and raises overhead. 

I was a part time driver... I dont think i will be until this insirance issue is sorted. #ineedcoverage


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## scrurbscrud

Duke of Randolph said:


> Does anyone have insurance that covers your uber driving? If so which one?


I have been unable to locate any personal auto insurance for part time driving after being on the phone with this issue for 3-4 days now. It's nowhere to be found.

In addition, as well documented here, 20 or 21 states have issued public warnings about this exact matter.


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## Duke of Randolph

I tried a mom and pop insurance company in wayland massachusetts. They said they had never heard of uber and that they wouldnt cover me unless i had commercial plates


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## Tx rides

Duke of Randolph said:


> Well it sux cause i love to drive for uber but i wont risk it if im not covered. I need to find insurance that covers me and my paid riders before i get back on the road.
> 
> Ive already had one ticket for driving for uber for 500 bucks.. (uber paid the fine) . But if i were in an accident.... Im screwed


Your paying customers are apparently covered if you are at fault but you vehicle is on you. Also keep in mind this is a COMBINED SINGLE LIMIT policy for LIABILITY only. Comprehensive/Collision, and any accident as soon as you end trip is totally on your personal coverage which is probably void since you are using your vehicle for hire.


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## SF CURBSERVER

scrurbscrud said:


> I have been unable to locate any personal auto insurance for part time driving after being on the phone with this issue for 3-4 days now. It's nowhere to be found.
> 
> In addition, as well documented here, 20 or 21 states have issued public warnings about this exact matter.


Maybe it's just your state


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## scrurbscrud

SF CURBSERVER said:


> Maybe it's just your state


Or more likely you just don't give a damn.


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## Tx rides

Duke of Randolph said:


> Well it sux cause i love to drive for uber but i wont risk it if im not covered. I need to find insurance that covers me and my paid riders before i get back on the road.
> 
> Ive already had one ticket for driving for uber for 500 bucks.. (uber paid the fine) . But if i were in an accident.... Im screwed


Wise observation! Better sooner than later. Now, to put things in perspective: I would like to keep the Sprinter van we rented, and only pay economy car rental rates because it would result in more profit....Payless won't agree to those terms, so no more fancy Sprinter until we cough up the $$$ to keep it


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## SF CURBSERVER

scrurbscrud said:


> Or more likely you just don't give a damn.


Yup I don't driving 12 hour shifts are long enough. That's why I don't give a damn.


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## LAuberX

Duke of Randolph said:


> Does anyone have insurance that covers your uber driving? If so which one?


No insurance company will let you drive for hire with a regular policy.
In EVERY state we are breaking the law driving for Uber when we lie about it.

but at these GREAT rates that bring us so much business it makes it all worth it, right?


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## Tx rides

SF CURBSERVER said:


> Yup I don't driving 12 hour shifts are long enough. That's why I don't give a damn.


Do you have a rider to your personal insurance? Or are you saying that you know the risks and don't care?


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## scrurbscrud

Duke of Randolph said:


> Well it sux cause i love to drive for uber but i wont risk it if im not covered. I need to find insurance that covers me and my paid riders before i get back on the road.
> 
> Ive already had one ticket for driving for uber for 500 bucks.. (uber paid the fine) . But if i were in an accident.... Im screwed


btw *has that ticket been on the books long enough for your personal auto insurance renewal to come around?*

If they tag that you are probably done with normal personal auto insurance anyway. And good luck trying to get hybrid or commercial ride share insurance after that. It probably won't happen.


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## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> btw *has that ticket been on the books long enough for your personal auto insurance renewal to come around?*
> 
> If they tag that you are probably done with normal personal auto insurance anyway. And good luck trying to get hybrid or commercial ride share insurance after that. It probably won't happen.


Or getting hired by anyone which does driver BG checks.


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## scrurbscrud

LAuberX said:


> No insurance company will let you drive for hire with a regular policy.
> In EVERY state we are breaking the law driving for Uber when we lie about it.
> 
> but at these GREAT rates that bring us so much business it makes it all worth it, right?


It's a great testimony to American BIG BUSINESS when a matter such as this runs right past nearly the entire USA.

This country is so f'ed up it's pathetic. Big Money doesn't have to follow the rulz. Some drivers mistakenly think we can get by doing the same thing.

The difference IS, and I know this by hard earned experience, BIG MONEY can afford to buy their ways PAST THE LAWS.

We can't.

Now you know the difference between a slave and a free man. Only the big money man is free to be a lawbreaker. This is just a fact of DOTCORP.


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## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> Or getting hired by anyone which does driver BG checks.


Or innumerable other ways that the system is geared the screw the crap out of dumb people.


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## Duke of Randolph

My ticket from the Boston hackney police was a civil fine. Didnt go on my insurance or against me (as uber gave me the money and i paid off the ticket) i just renewed my auto policy for my car and it wasnt brought up (thats when i inquired if they cover uber driving)

The ticket was in early feb of 2014


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## SF CURBSERVER

Tx rides said:


> Do you have a rider to your personal insurance? Or are you saying that you know the risks and don't care?


Don't know don't care. After the 12 hour shift. Before the shift I care and I know. Lol


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## Duke of Randolph

It just seems to me that if you drive for uber, you are not insured and if you are not insured, you legally cant drive as we are uninsured motorists. Seems like a cycle that wont end. We wont become livery drivers or commercial drivers.. Defeats the purpose. 

So what do we do?


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## Duke of Randolph

And by the way i think insurance companies are just a big ponzi scheme. We buy into a system (that most often we will never use) and when we do use them rates go up or they drop us.


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## scrurbscrud

Duke of Randolph said:


> My ticket from the Boston hackney police was a civil fine. Didnt go on my insurance or against me (as uber gave me the money and i paid off the ticket) i just renewed my auto policy for my car and it wasnt brought up (thats when i inquired if they cover uber driving)
> 
> The ticket was in early feb of 2014


Don't know how it is in your state but where I'm from auto violations are picked up in public records as often as the personal auto companies bother to look, which is usually once a year. So you may anticipate a surprise at sometime in the future.


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## Tx rides

Duke of Randolph said:


> It just seems to me that if you drive for uber, you are not insured and if you are not insured, you legally cant drive as we are uninsured motorists. Seems like a cycle that wont end. We wont become livery drivers or commercial drivers.. Defeats the purpose.
> 
> So what do we do?


You find something else to do. This was never well planned, remember: they entered nearly every market illegally. They may be able to fool, force, or buy politicians, not so with the insurance companies which carry the risk. And it IS a higher risk. Uber touts itself as data driven. Well in that case they KNOW the likelihood of accidents increase for every personal vehicle when it becomes a hired car, especially since they don't target professional drivers. More hours OTR, more miles, congested streets, drivers OTR during peak drunk hours, etc. Regardless of our sentiments towards insurers, they do carry the risk. We have had EXCELLENT coverage with our commercial carrier, worth every penny. They would not be so great if a large number of drivers scammed them. That is why they are VERY selective with approvals.


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## Tx rides

Duke of Randolph said:


> It just seems to me that if you drive for uber, you are not insured and if you are not insured, you legally cant drive as we are uninsured motorists. Seems like a cycle that wont end. We wont become livery drivers or commercial drivers.. Defeats the purpose.
> 
> So what do we do?


BTW-you ARE a commercial livery driver!!! Why would you think you are not? Why not go do what you love for someone else who owns, insures, and maintains their fleet? Then you will be covered and if someone hits you, they put you in another car and send you out to keep earning!


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## scrurbscrud

Duke of Randolph said:


> It just seems to me that if you drive for uber, you are not insured and if you are not insured, you legally cant drive as we are uninsured motorists. Seems like a cycle that wont end. We wont become livery drivers or commercial drivers.. Defeats the purpose.
> 
> So what do we do?


I read an account of a Lyft driver who had to sign a notarized document that he wasn't ride sharing anymore in order to get his personal auto insurance back in place because somehow they found out about it.

If they pick up your ticket or plea or whatever it is, you may be forced to specialty insurance.


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## Duke of Randolph

Ive applied to drive for a professional livery service however ive had an accident in the past three years and my pts are at 6...they wont hire anyone over 4 in massachusetts... Moreover i like not having to wear a suit and tie (im a bigger guy and driving in a jacket is uncomfortable.) driving in my own car and in the clothes i wanted to wear appealed to me. I am thinking of getting livery plates but my clientele would be no where nesr what uber has.


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## Duke of Randolph

Tx rides said:


> You find something else to do. This was never well planned, remember: they entered nearly every market illegally. They may be able to fool, force, or buy politicians, not so with the insurance companies which carry the risk. And it IS a higher risk. Uber touts itself as data driven. Well in that case they KNOW the likelihood of accidents increase for every personal vehicle when it becomes a hired car, especially since they don't target professional drivers. More hours OTR, more miles, congested streets, drivers OTR during peak drunk hours, etc. Regardless of our sentiments towards insurers, they do carry the risk. We have had EXCELLENT coverage with our commercial carrier, worth every penny. They would not be so great if a large number of drivers scammed them. That is why they are VERY selective with approvals.


Do you have commercial plates or reg state plates. What insurance comapny? National name or local?


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## Tx rides

Duke of Randolph said:


> Do you have commercial plates or reg state plates. What insurance comapny? National name or local?


We are fully permitted in Austin Tx and commercially insured. Our carrier will not touch the Uberx/Lyft drivers. With all the Uber tricks of late, I wonder if they would even approve if we changed our mind and tried to do UberBlack(not likely!!! Just wondering what they would say)


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## Tx rides

Duke of Randolph said:


> Ive applied to drive for a professional livery service however ive had an accident in the past three years and my pts are at 6...they wont hire anyone over 4 in massachusetts... Moreover i like not having to wear a suit and tie (im a bigger guy and driving in a jacket is uncomfortable.) driving in my own car and in the clothes i wanted to wear appealed to me. I am thinking of getting livery plates but my clientele would be no where nesr what uber has.


My husband is a big guy, we are fairly flexible on jacket with regular clients, and in the TX summertime, anyone in close quarters with drivers appreciate their NOT wearing jackets!!! Lol
As for clients, go commercial, work yourself up a special list of regulars, get a backup driver and grow from there. But yeah...those points will get you in any case:-(


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## Kaz

I dont know of any insurance company that allows UBERing. Geico and the other companies do not but I dont understand how they can tell us we can't do it, yet won't offer us any coverage. And a commericial policy for a personal vehicle is not cost effective. Someone recommended I establish an LLC, and purchase a general liability policy until that umbrella, and do that if our insurance companies are refusing to help us on this. I'm afraid to even call around and ask other companies for fear that I will be outed somehow. Has anyone been quoted a price that includes Taxi-ing and which company quoted you? There is no way in hell I am paying $3500, 4k a year for something I do on the weekends- makes no sense!!!


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## scrurbscrud

Kaz said:


> I dont know of any insurance company that allows UBERing. Geico and the other companies do not but I dont understand how they can tell us we can't do it, yet won't offer us any coverage. And a commericial policy for a personal vehicle is not cost effective. Someone recommended I establish an LLC, and purchase a general liability policy until that umbrella, and do that if our insurance companies are refusing to help us on this. I'm afraid to even call around and ask other companies for fear that I will be outed somehow. Has anyone been quoted a price that includes Taxi-ing and which company quoted you? There is no way in hell I am paying $3500, 4k a year for something I do on the weekends- makes no sense!!!


I am very concerned that just by putting my personal information into the insurance system, which I HAVE DONE in order to try to obtain a commercial quote may have already put me at risk of being cancelled and having that hanging out there for all the insurance companies to see, BUT I will not drive another day without legal adequate insurance cover, period. ***** that.* I wouldn't even do that for GOOD pay.


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## Tx rides

Kaz said:


> I dont know of any insurance company that allows UBERing. Geico and the other companies do not but I dont understand how they can tell us we can't do it, yet won't offer us any coverage. And a commericial policy for a personal vehicle is not cost effective. Someone recommended I establish an LLC, and purchase a general liability policy until that umbrella, and do that if our insurance companies are refusing to help us on this. I'm afraid to even call around and ask other companies for fear that I will be outed somehow. Has anyone been quoted a price that includes Taxi-ing and which company quoted you? There is no way in hell I am paying $3500, 4k a year for something I do on the weekends- makes no sense!!!


Well, technically they are not telling you that you can't, they are saying they won't cover you


Kaz said:


> I dont know of any insurance company that allows UBERing. Geico and the other companies do not but I dont understand how they can tell us we can't do it, yet won't offer us any coverage. And a commericial policy for a personal vehicle is not cost effective. Someone recommended I establish an LLC, and purchase a general liability policy until that umbrella, and do that if our insurance companies are refusing to help us on this. I'm afraid to even call around and ask other companies for fear that I will be outed somehow. Has anyone been quoted a price that includes Taxi-ing and which company quoted you? There is no way in hell I am paying $3500, 4k a year for something I do on the weekends- makes no sense!!!


Well technically they are not saying you can't - they are saying they won't insure you 
I can understand why even those considering hybrid policies are not going to offer it for "part timers". Take a look at ALL the drivers out there who, unlike the few I've encountered here, say "screw it, I don't care". As an insurer, I would not trust this network of drivers at all. They have already advised other drivers to lie and say they were not driving for Uber. Many mistakenly believe that sitting and waiting for a passenger, or driving from one hot spot to another does not constitute "working", but the truth is - they most certainly are because they are "on call". They are prone to electronic distraction to be summoned for hire, they are often in congested areas more open to accidents, they are on properties which require commercial coverage (like at most airports)....the list goes on. No one wants to be stuck holding the bag for major lawsuits.
It is too easy for a part timer to u-turn in front of a convention center and strike a passenger then claim they were just going to get groceries. It is easy for ANY e-hailed vehicles to do the same, the difference with Uber/Lyft is they want to claim it was "personal use" at that time, whereas commercial operators have to eat it either way.


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## scrurbscrud

I'm willing to pay more. One would think in the land of the free that the legislators and large dotcorp would have addressed this matter before they allowed hundreds of thousands of ride share drivers to hang their uninsured asses out in the public. *That part I DON'T GET and never will.*

Unfortunately I saw nearly the identical thing happen in the construction industry *and they didn't give a damn about US citizens having their financial bags slit then either NOR will they give a rats ass on these matters.*


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## Worcester Sauce

SF CURBSERVER said:


> Maybe it's just your state


read your friggin policy


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## cybertec69

Come to NYC, 80% of you would not even bother with Uber.


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## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> I'm willing to pay more. One would think in the land of the free that the legislators and large dotcorp would have addressed this matter before they allowed hundreds of thousands of ride share drivers to hang their uninsured asses out in the public. *That part I DON'T GET and never will.*
> 
> Unfortunately I saw nearly the identical thing happen in the construction industry *and they didn't give a damn about US citizens having their financial bags slit then either NOR will they give a rats ass on these matters.*


I'm convinced the city council in Austin was either bought or they are absolute idiots. Coin toss, for sure, if you listened to the STUPID questions they asked, and the ignorance explanations they provided.


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## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> I'm convinced the city council in Austin was either bought or they are absolute idiots. Coin toss, for sure, if you listened to the STUPID questions they asked, and the ignorance explanations they provided.


Sounds like some drivers here....go figure.

fwiw I expect to be fully insured and legal shortly. And I ain't saying how because if drivers are too damn lazy to go through what I did, *tough shit.*


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## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> Sounds like some drivers here....go figure.
> 
> fwiw I expect to be fully insured and legal shortly. And I ain't saying how because if drivers are too damn lazy to go through what I did, *tough shit.*


Dog dog.....dog eat dog! ~Uncle Ted


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## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> Dog dog.....dog eat dog! ~Uncle Ted


"everybody can _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _"

Nothin better than seeing him live shootin an arrow through the effigy of the moment hung up near the lights on stage.

"TRAVIS KALENICK you can _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _"

"Illegal ride share drivers you can"...oh, I better quit now. My list is pretty long. Bedtime soon.


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## Piotrowski

It's time to end this FUD once and for all. Because I don't live in fear I called Esurance, yes using my name, and outright asked them about how I use my car. The gentleman I spoke with explained how they have recently added a question specifically about uber, lyft etc. asking if you plan on doing it, and the answer is NO, it does not exclude you. What it adds is clarification that they will not cover you when you are doing those types of activities, which is what Uber's insurance does. I further asked him about the other stuff I do related to my main business, which I won't go into on here, but he assured my that just saying it's for personal use would be ok for all of that. The bottom line was the quote for me was very reasonable, just over $800 for 6 month for our 4 cars (yeah we have four, twice as many as there are living here! lol) with full coverage on the two nice ones and much more limited coverage on the two old cars.

BTW, the reason I called Esurance was I read elsewhere, unlike what is being said on here, that they are in fact covering uber drivers. Now, I have not tried asking my present company or any other companies, which of course I might do, or based on comparing this price to what we pay now, I might just switch to this.


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## Piotrowski

Let me add he said this is for OCCATIONALLY doing uber, he said this is not designed for someone doing it full time, but I've already said it over and over again, no one should think about doing this full time. It doesn't work well for that.


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## Worcester Sauce

Piotrowski said:


> It's time to end this FUD once and for all. Because I don't live in fear I called Esurance, yes using my name, and outright asked them about how I use my car. The gentleman I spoke with explained how they have recently added a question specifically about uber, lyft etc. asking if you plan on doing it, and the answer is NO, it does not exclude you. What it adds is clarification that they will not cover you when you are doing those types of activities, which is what Uber's insurance does. I further asked him about the other stuff I do related to my main business, which I won't go into on here, but he assured my that just saying it's for personal use would be ok for all of that. The bottom line was the quote for me was very reasonable, just over $800 for 6 month for our 4 cars (yeah we have four, twice as many as there are living here! lol) with full coverage on the two nice ones and much more limited coverage on the two old cars.
> 
> BTW, the reason I called Esurance was I read elsewhere, unlike what is being said on here, that they are in fact covering uber drivers. Now, I have not tried asking my present company or any other companies, which of course I might do, or based on comparing this price to what we pay now, I might just switch to this.


So...your insurance guy told you that you were NOT covered while Ubering. You now assume that while you are Ubering that Uber's "insurance" is going to cover you and your car AND protect you (not Uber...YOU) from a personal liability lawsuit??? Fool.....


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## Duke of Randolph

this is from Mark at Uber Boston:

Thanks for reaching out about insurance. Unfortunately, Uber does not insure drivers as we consider drivers to be independent contractors. Therefore, the individual driver is responsible for holding insurance for themselves that would cover accidents.
If your current insurance will not cover it, I would recommend finding some new insurance. And since I am sensing this follow-up question, we do not offer recommendations on insurance due to the legal implications involved.
I apologize for any inconvenience. But I hope this does help clarify our policies!
Best,
Mark
*Uber Support*

Piotrowski - be careful - if you get into an accident while ubering - there is no insurance from Uber. They WONT cover you. And since as you said "...they will not cover you when you are doing those types of activities" you are not covered. Again Uber does not cover drivers. they dont have insurance for us.


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## Worcester Sauce

Duke of Randolph said:


> this is from Mark at Uber Boston:
> 
> Thanks for reaching out about insurance. Unfortunately, Uber does not insure drivers as we consider drivers to be independent contractors. Therefore, the individual driver is responsible for holding insurance for themselves that would cover accidents.
> If your current insurance will not cover it, I would recommend finding some new insurance. And since I am sensing this follow-up question, we do not offer recommendations on insurance due to the legal implications involved.
> I apologize for any inconvenience. But I hope this does help clarify our policies!
> Best,
> Mark
> *Uber Support*
> 
> Piotrowski - be careful - if you get into an accident while ubering - there is no insurance from Uber. They WONT cover you. And since as you said "...they will not cover you when you are doing those types of activities" you are not covered. Again Uber does not cover drivers. they dont have insurance for us.


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## Duke of Randolph

So - since my insurance company does not cover driving for Uber and Uber doesnt cover me - therefore i have no insurance when i drive for Uber. (I was told if i submitted a claim while driving my policy would be cancelled) Therefore i wanted to find out if any one here has personal insurance that covers them when they Uber. Seems like no one does (even ESurance) unless you are commercial or livery - which defeats the purpose. I wont risk getting into an accident and having to pay out of pocket to fix my car or to pay medical expenses if someone where to get injured (knock on wood)


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## Worcester Sauce

Duke of Randolph said:


> this is from Mark at Uber Boston:
> 
> Thanks for reaching out about insurance. Unfortunately, Uber does not insure drivers as we consider drivers to be independent contractors. Therefore, the individual driver is responsible for holding insurance for themselves that would cover accidents.
> If your current insurance will not cover it, I would recommend finding some new insurance. And since I am sensing this follow-up question, we do not offer recommendations on insurance due to the legal implications involved.
> I apologize for any inconvenience. But I hope this does help clarify our policies!
> Best,
> Mark
> *Uber Support*
> 
> Piotrowski - be careful - if you get into an accident while ubering - there is no insurance from Uber. They WONT cover you. And since as you said "...they will not cover you when you are doing those types of activities" you are not covered. Again Uber does not cover drivers. they dont have insurance for us.


Duke...he is not going to listen to your good advise. He is convinced himself that he is right and the world is wrong.


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## DHJ

"Mark at Uber Boston" apparently doesn't even read his own employer's website http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance


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## Piotrowski

Worcester Sauce said:


> So...your insurance guy told you that you were NOT covered while Ubering. You now assume that while you are Ubering that Uber's "insurance" is going to cover you and your car AND protect you (not Uber...YOU) from a personal liability lawsuit??? Fool.....


Are you ******ed? I mean seriously, do you even understand what insurance is? As someone who has been sued, in a case that involved over 1 million in legal fees, I think I know a little bit about the subject. But what I am doing... this is even too stupid to respond too.


Duke of Randolph said:


> this is from Mark at Uber Boston:
> 
> Thanks for reaching out about insurance. Unfortunately, Uber does not insure drivers as we consider drivers to be independent contractors. Therefore, the individual driver is responsible for holding insurance for themselves that would cover accidents.
> If your current insurance will not cover it, I would recommend finding some new insurance. And since I am sensing this follow-up question, we do not offer recommendations on insurance due to the legal implications involved.
> I apologize for any inconvenience. But I hope this does help clarify our policies!
> Best,
> Mark
> *Uber Support*
> 
> Piotrowski - be careful - if you get into an accident while ubering - there is no insurance from Uber. They WONT cover you. And since as you said "...they will not cover you when you are doing those types of activities" you are not covered. Again Uber does not cover drivers. they dont have insurance for us.


geezz.. I'm not going into this rabbit hole of dumbness. I think you guys need to understand what insurance is and how it works.


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## Piotrowski

DHJ said:


> "Mark at Uber Boston" apparently doesn't even read his own employer's website http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance


In fairness to Mark from Uber, his answer was posted with out the question he was answering being shown. The question may have been, "does Uber cover me when I'm driving around and I have the app on?"


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## Duke of Randolph

my eyes have been opened to the biggest issue with Uber - its not Uber's battles with taxis and local government etc etc (or having to to deal with rogue drivers that beat up their passengers after getting into arguments with riders about the best route) its the minor detail about no one having insurance coverage. Id love to talk with someone that had an accident while driving and how they handled it and whether or not they would recommend continuing to drive.


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## Worcester Sauce

Piotrowski said:


> Are you ******ed? I mean seriously, do you even understand what insurance is? As someone who has been sued, in a case that involved over 1 million in legal fees, I think I know a little bit about the subject. But what I am doing... this is even too stupid to respond too.
> 
> geezz.. I'm not going into this rabbit hole of dumbness. I think you guys need to understand what insurance is and how it works.


Save your breath Piotrowski. I am moving on. Clearly you have all the facts and you must be right. Happy Ubering!!


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## Worcester Sauce

Duke of Randolph said:


> my eyes have been opened to the biggest issue with Uber - its not Uber's battles with taxis and local government etc etc (or having to to deal with rogue drivers that beat up their passengers after getting into arguments with riders about the best route) its the minor detail about no one having insurance coverage. Id love to talk with someone that had an accident while driving and how they handled it and whether or not they would recommend continuing to drive.


Why bother Duke? Just ask Piotrowski...he knows it ALL.


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## Duke of Randolph

my question to Uber

who covers me for insurance while driving if i was in an accident?
My liberty mutual insurance rep confirmed they do not cover any claims put forth if there was an accident (I am changing cars and wanted to see about adding coverage while Ubering).
i just want to be sure that if there ever was an accident - that id be covered (and it doesnt look like i will be from my personal insurance)
best,
Mike
================================
Thanks for reaching out about insurance. Unfortunately, Uber does not insure drivers as we consider drivers to be independent contractors. Therefore, the individual driver is responsible for holding insurance for themselves that would cover accidents.
If your current insurance will not cover it, I would recommend finding some new insurance. And since I am sensing this follow-up question, we do not offer recommendations on insurance due to the legal implications involved.
I apologize for any inconvenience. But I hope this does help clarify our policies!
Best,
Mark
Uber Support
Duke of Randolph,A moment agoEditDeleteReport
#57+ Quote


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## Duke of Randolph

Worcester Sauce said:


> Why bother Duke? Just ask Piotrowski...he knows it ALL.


 Good luck!!


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## DHJ

Hi Duke:
Ask Mark to clarify his response with Uber's own statement http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance . He appears to be just shooting from the hip in his response. I have had the same conversations with my Uber CSR's and have *never* received the response as from Mark at Uber support. Just a suggestion.


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## Sydney Uber

Man! How can UBER get away with this?


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## Tx rides

DHJ said:


> "Mark at Uber Boston" apparently doesn't even read his own employer's website http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance


THIS is important: "Drivers' liability to third parties is covered from the moment a driver accepts a trip to its conclusion"


----------



## Tx rides

DHJ said:


> Hi Duke:
> Ask Mark to clarify his response with Uber's own statement http://blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance . He appears to be just shooting from the hip in his response. I have had the same conversations with my Uber CSR's and have *never* received the response as from Mark at Uber support. Just a suggestion.


Most importantly, read the entire policy , AND ask your insurer for specific coverage policy. What happens if you hit someone while parking to wait for pings? What happens when you pull away from a hotel drop off and hit a pedestrian? What happens if your car is totaled with pax in car? Who fixes YOUR car? What if you are injured? Who pays your injuries?


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## Tx rides

Sydney Uber said:


> Man! How can UBER get away with this?


Willful Ignorance reduces complexity


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## DHJ

Great Advice TX rides! Wonderful questions!


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## Piotrowski

Tx rides said:


> Most importantly, read the entire policy , AND ask your insurer for specific coverage policy. What happens if you hit someone while parking to wait for pings? What happens when you pull away from a hotel drop off and hit a pedestrian? What happens if your car is totaled with pax in car? Who fixes YOUR car? What if you are injured? Who pays your injuries?


Lets say you have a job working for Hilton, You cover 4 hotels in your city, who covers you when you leave the hotels's parking lot and you hit a pedestrian? It's the same thing. Your "job" is done, it's back to being on your dime. Time to put on your big boy pants and stop worrying about everything in life.


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## scrurbscrud

Piotrowski said:


> Lets say you have a job working for Hilton, You cover 4 hotels in your city, who covers you when you leave the hotels's parking lot and you hit a pedestrian? It's the same thing. Your "job" is done, it's back to being on your dime. Time to put on your big boy pants and stop worrying about everything in life.


You might get by with some ignorants here who listen to piss poor advice, but there really is only ONE CURE.

Truthful answers from insurance agents. Your opinions don't mean squat.


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## Tx rides

Piotrowski said:


> Lets say you have a job working for Hilton, You cover 4 hotels in your city, who covers you when you leave the hotels's parking lot and you hit a pedestrian? It's the same thing. Your "job" is done, it's back to being on your dime. Time to put on your big boy pants and stop worrying about everything in life.


Re hotel -No it is not the same, not to the owner of the property, and not to most insurance companies. Now what about the period when you have a pax? Anyone stupid enough to ASSume how the coverage works deserves whatever happens to them. I feel bad for their dependents, though.


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## Worcester Sauce

Piotrowski said:


> Lets say you have a job working for Hilton, You cover 4 hotels in your city, who covers you when you leave the hotels's parking lot and you hit a pedestrian? It's the same thing. Your "job" is done, it's back to being on your dime. Time to put on your big boy pants and stop worrying about everything in life.


go away


----------



## Piotrowski

scrurbscrud said:


> You might get by with some ignorants here who listen to piss poor advice, but there really is only ONE CURE.
> 
> Truthful answers from insurance agents. Your opinions don't mean squat.


Oh but someone should take advise from someone who doesn't even use their own real name on here? hahaha (idiot: "hey listen up, I got this tip from some guy in the internet, who says I should send me $10 and he will send me 50 grand." Freind: "Who?" idiot: "Oh I don't know someone who posts with a made up name, but I think I can trust him")


----------



## Worcester Sauce

Piotrowski said:


> Oh but someone should take advise from someone who doesn't even use their own real name on here? hahaha (idiot: "hey listen up, I got this tip from some guy in the internet, who says I should send me $10 and he will send me 50 grand." Freind: "Who?" idiot: "Oh I don't know someone who posts with a made up name, but I think I can trust him")


....where is Doyle??? I have a "job" for him.


----------



## Tx rides

Worcester Sauce said:


> ....where is Doyle??? I have a "job" for him.


Y'all make me LOL at work!


----------



## scrurbscrud

Piotrowski said:


> Oh but someone should take advise from someone who doesn't even use their own real name on here? hahaha (idiot: "hey listen up, I got this tip from some guy in the internet, who says I should send me $10 and he will send me 50 grand." Freind: "Who?" idiot: "Oh I don't know someone who posts with a made up name, but I think I can trust him")


Said many times now Piot, only an insurance professional can TRUTHFULLY answer these questions. I would never trust me if I were you even if I was telling the truth, and I AM, but whatever.


----------



## Tx rides

DHJ said:


> Great Advice TX rides! Wonderful questions!


Get Uber to put it in writing, quoting the policy directly. If they are unwilling to do so, you have your answer :/(

As for your own insurance, tell them you are being recruited HEAVILY to start driving and want to know the truth because you are hearing it would cause you to lose coverage, and you love them more than Ben and Jerry's and would never want to jeopardize your relationship/coverage 

"I didn't know" rarely wins in court, nor will it fix your car or pay your medical bills.


----------



## Sydney Uber

Worcester Sauce said:


> ....where is Doyle??? I have a "job" for him.


Nah! Ask Karl Childers. He has a far more personal way of dealing with pests!


----------



## Sean O'Gorman

scrurbscrud said:


> Said many times now Piot, only an insurance professional can TRUTHFULLY answer these questions. I would never trust me if I were you even if I was telling the truth, and I AM, but whatever.


Says the guy who is constantly telling the person who is LITERALLY THE ONLY INSURANCE PROFESSIONAL ON THIS SITE that he is wrong, with no factual evidence to back it up...


----------



## scrurbscrud

Sean O'Gorman said:


> Says the guy who is constantly telling the person who is LITERALLY THE ONLY INSURANCE PROFESSIONAL ON THIS SITE that he is wrong, with no factual evidence to back it up...


The only insurance professionals any driver should listen to is their insurance agent you twit. Sure as HELL not your baloney!


----------



## Tx rides

Sean O'Gorman said:


> Says the guy who is constantly telling the person who is LITERALLY THE ONLY INSURANCE PROFESSIONAL ON THIS SITE that he is wrong, with no factual evidence to back it up...


Can you back it up? Can you point to the parts of the James River policy supporting the claim that drivers are covered for damages to their vehicle or person in a collision, and that pedestrians are covered when you drop someone off at a hotel and pulled out into the street? Every professional I have talked to says otherwise, up to executive levels.


----------



## Sean O'Gorman

scrurbscrud said:


> The only insurance professionals any driver should listen to is their insurance agent you twit. Sure as HELL not your baloney!


Insurance agents don't determine coverage, adjusters do. Agents only sell the policies and are typically not knowledgeable about the nuances of the policy language.

Don't believe me? Go ask an agent how many times they have denied a claim, or negotiated with an attorney, or been called to testify at a trial regarding a claim. That's right, they don't do that. *I do.
*
You're just brainwashed by those garbage State Farm commercials that make it sound as if the agent takes care of everything when you have a claim. The fact is the agent has zero input once a claim is reported. The agent does nothing, State Farm handles the claim out of a call center in Tennessee or somewhere. Go ahead, call (866)879-3014 and ask for an insurance agent.


----------



## Sean O'Gorman

Tx rides said:


> Can you back it up? Can you point to the parts of the James River policy supporting the claim that drivers are covered for damages to their vehicle or person in a collision, and that pedestrians are covered when you drop someone off at a hotel and pulled out into the street? Every professional I have talked to says otherwise, up to executive levels.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/234793312/Ridesharing-Insurance-Policy-7-14-14



> ITEM TWO
> Schedule Of Coverages And Covered Autos
> This policy provides only those coverages where a charge is shown in the premium column below. Each of these coverages will apply only to those autos shown as covered autos . Autos are shown as covered autos for a particular coverage by the entry of one or more of the symbols from the Covered Autos Section of the Business Auto Coverage Form next to the name of the coverage.


OK, so let's move on to the coverage symbols. These are standard across the board, 1-10 are typically personal auto, 40s are for garagekeepers/garage coverage policies, 60s are for trucker coverage policies, etc. For this policy, the covered auto symbol is 10, which is a custom description listed in a separate endorsement, found on page 34:



> Any auto of the Private Passenger Type while being used by Named Operator shown in the Limitation of Coverage to Designated Named Operator(s) Endorsement (JA5320US 09-12), provided any of the following:
> 
> a. The Named Operator has logged and recorded acceptance in the Uber application to provide transportation services, and the Named Operator is:
> 
> 1) En route to the pick-up location of the requested transportation services including, but not limited to, picking-up of passenger(s); or
> 2) Traveling to the final destination of the requested transportation services including, but not limited to, dropping-off of passenger(s).
> 
> b. The Named Operator has logged and recorded acceptance in the Uber application to provide transportation services and the Named Operator is:
> 
> 1) Located on a public airport premises during the course of the accepted transportation services including the picking-up and dropping-off of passenger(s); or
> 2) Located on a public airport premises immediately following the conclusion of the re-quested transportation services and while in the course of exiting the public airport premises.
> 
> The Named Operator has logged into the Uber application and is available to receive requests for transportation services from Uber application users and the Named Operator is located on a public airport premises. Available to receive requests means the Uber software is in a state such that an applicable request would be transmitted to the driver's software for acceptance by the driver.


Definition of Named Operator:



> Drivers who have entered into a contract with one or more of the Named Insureds prior to the time of the accident


AND, the following was added:



> DESIGNATED NAMED OPERATORS AS INSUREDS This endorsement modifies insurance provided under the following: BUSINESS AUTO COVERAGE FORM With respect to coverage provided by this endorsement the provisions of the Coverage Form apply unless modified by the endorsement The following is added to SECTION LIABILITY COVERAGE, A 1.
> 
> Who Is An Insured:
> d. Designated Named Operators listed in the SCHEDULE of endorsement JA5302US-0912 are insureds provided such drivers: 1.Are using a covered auto that you don't own hire or borrow in your business or personal affairs; and
> 2. Have entered into a contract with one or more of the Named Insureds prior to the time of the accident .
> 
> With respect to coverage for the Designated Named Operators, it is hereby agreed that Section Ill-BUSINESS AUTO CONDITIONS, B.4. other Insurance is deleted and replaced with the following:
> 
> Coverage provided for Designated Named Operators by this endorsement is primary with respect to any:
> 1. Personal auto insurance policy that includes the Designated Named Operator as an insured; or
> 2 . Personal auto insurance policy that includes the auto driven by the Designated Named Operator as a covered auto.
> 
> Coverage provided for Designated Named Operators by this endorsement is excess over any:
> 1. Business auto insurance policy that includes the Designated Named Operator as an insured; and
> 2. Business auto insurance policy that includes the auto driven by the Designated Named Operator as a covered auto.
> 
> If no other policies described elsewhere in this endorsement exist or provide coverage, the coverage provided by this endorsement shall be primary.


Note that this is just for third party liability. Uber's physical damage policy is not published anywhere, nor do they have to. as unlike liability coverage, there is no mandate that a vehicle has to have collision. There's also no reason to believe that Uber is lying about having this coverage, despite what some of you might think.

Also, note that if you buy your own commercial policy, then this one becomes excess, thus only applying if you really **** up and cause damages in excess of your own policy limits.


----------



## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> The only insurance professionals any driver should listen to is their insurance agent you twit. Sure as HELL not your baloney!





Sean O'Gorman said:


> http://www.scribd.com/doc/234793312/Ridesharing-Insurance-Policy-7-14-14
> 
> OK, so let's move on to the coverage symbols. These are standard across the board, 1-10 are typically personal auto, 40s are for garagekeepers/garage coverage policies, 60s are for trucker coverage policies, etc. For this policy, the covered auto symbol is 10, which is a custom description listed in a separate endorsement, found on page 34:
> 
> Definition of Named Operator:
> 
> AND, the following was added:
> 
> Note that this is just for third party liability. Uber's physical damage policy is not published anywhere, nor do they have to. as unlike liability coverage, there is no mandate that a vehicle has to have collision. There's also no reason to believe that Uber is lying about having this coverage, despite what some of you might think.
> 
> Also, note that if you buy your own commercial policy, then this one becomes excess, thus only applying if you really **** up and cause damages in excess of your own policy limits.


I have already read this policy.
Where do the operators fall in all the exemptions listed throughout the policy? Employees? Partners? 
Again....what is the coverage for driver injury/damage? Why do so many drivers think they will be taken care of if they have not been lied to or misled?

And what happens when a driver pulls away from a hotel drop off and strikes a guest ? Specifics, please! I've already heard from multiple execs that the hotel instance is absolutely going down under livery exclusion, and most will drop you completely if they learn you are livery because they know the improbability of proving your app status in any reasonable timeframe. Furthermore, the drivers for these TNC's have proven themselves to be open rule violators and liars, they don't expect that to change when it comes to insurance coverage.

To anyone who has a problem with that terminology: too bad! Drivers across the world have openly admitted to pretending to be a personal vehicle picking people up in cities where they were not permitted.

Many large venues require cert of insurance to be provider ( like airports, convention centers, etc) and your personal insurance WILL NOT meet that requirement.


----------



## scrurbscrud

The issue of 'secondary' insurance is if the drivers personal policy doesn't cover. They might cover. *But if they know Uber is on second base, unlikely. *

They'll just cancel the drivers policy and let the driver deal with Uber.

From then on the driver will pay more for a personal auto policy, IF they can get one, rinse, repeat. A second time violator on the 'I already had an accident plan and my coverage denied' will probably be dropped permanently OR their policy will just flat out say 'if you do it, tough luck on you.' If I were an insurance company I wouldn't even think of taking a risk on someone who already proved to be risky. Have you ever tried to get coverage if you've had a denial of claim on a personal auto policy? I haven't, but have had a couple of friends who have. It's damn near impossible. The person usually has to sit and stew in their own broth without driving and without insurance for about 3 years. Then a HIGH RISK company MIGHT take them on. Might. If they knew that had an illegal taxi driver on their hands who didn't have adequate cover prior though, it would probably be much more difficult and much more expensive. I'm sure there will be a stray insurance company or 2 around who will financially rape such people. Maybe have to lien their house or everything they have to get coverage? Who knows?

I know one thing. Driving on a fraudulent personal auto insurance policy and having any kind of a problem is going to be HELL ON EARTH for any who get dragged into it. Even a properly insured person will have to pay a premium to continue in business. But to be denied claims or denied coverage is insurance hell.


----------



## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> The issue of 'secondary' insurance is if the drivers personal policy doesn't cover. They might cover. *But if they know Uber is on second base, unlikely. *
> 
> They'll just cancel the drivers policy and let the driver deal with Uber.
> 
> From then on the driver will pay more for a personal auto policy, IF they can get one, rinse, repeat. A second time violator on the 'I already had an accident plan and my coverage denied' will probably be dropped permanently OR their policy will just flat out say 'if you do it, tough luck on you.' If I were an insurance company I wouldn't even think of taking a risk on someone who already proved to be risky. Have you ever tried to get coverage if you've had a denial of claim on a personal auto policy? I haven't, but have had a couple of friends who have. It's damn near impossible. The person usually has to sit and stew in their own broth without driving and without insurance for about 3 years. Then a HIGH RISK company MIGHT take them on. Might. If they knew that had an illegal taxi driver on their hands who didn't have adequate cover prior though, it would probably be much more difficult and much more expensive. I'm sure there will be a stray insurance company or 2 around who will financially rape such people. Maybe have to lien their house or everything they have to get coverage? Who knows?
> 
> I know one thing. Driving on a fraudulent personal auto insurance policy and having any kind of a problem is going to be HELL ON EARTH for any who get dragged into it. Even a properly insured person will have to pay a premium to continue in business. But to be denied claims or denied coverage is insurance hell.


Well, at least they can have Uber to drive them back and forth to their day job... I will bet as a passenger they won't be so enthralled by surge pricing..just sayin


----------



## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> Well, at least they can have Uber to drive them back and forth to their day job... I will bet as a passenger they won't be so enthralled by surge pricing..just sayin


I forget which philosopher said "I think, therefore I am."

Don't really care for the opposite position, "I don't think, therefore I am not."


----------



## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> I forget which philosopher said "I think, therefore I am."
> 
> Don't really care for the opposite position, "I don't think, therefore I am not."


Well Chris Wall wrote "I drink, therefore...I am Somebody...can't decide who I'll be tonight"


----------



## Tx rides

Oh the shark babe....has such teeth, dear......

Does any driver doubt this firm's (and others) commitment to going after drivers?

http://www.altmanllp.com/uber-accidents.html


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## Sean O'Gorman

Tx rides said:


> Oh the shark babe....has such teeth, dear......
> 
> Does any driver doubt this firm's (and others) commitment to going after drivers?
> 
> http://www.altmanllp.com/uber-accidents.html


You realize that ads like that are proof that Uber has valid coverage, right? There's a reason why they mention Uber, because of the deeper pockets of their policy vs. a personal auto policy. Lawyers are only interested in chasing or defending someone who has the $$$.

Example: You get rear ended by an uninsured motorist, but don't have UM coverage, so you ask an attorney to help you sue the guy to get your medical bills. You'll get nothing but crickets. Now assume you have 300k in UM coverage. They'll be on the phone with your insurance company trying to get their 33% cut before you're even out of the office!

It's why going to a defense attorney about an accident is a waste of time too. Most of the time our defense counsel costs $10,000+ before a claim even goes to suit. You can't afford that, but insurance has the budget for it.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> Oh the shark babe....has such teeth, dear......
> 
> Does any driver doubt this firm's (and others) commitment to going after drivers?
> 
> http://www.altmanllp.com/uber-accidents.html


Yeah, the attorneys are licking their chops over Travis' setup. Course they lick their chops over anywhere they can milk a buck from an insurance company. That's why it's BEST to have suitable coverage because if/when the shit hits the fan it's like being at ground zero for the driver unless another insurance company really does have your back. Then let the big guys just fight it out. If you're covered and haven't broken the law you can just sit back and watch.


----------



## Tx rides

Sean O'Gorman said:


> You realize that ads like that are proof that Uber has valid coverage, right? There's a reason why they mention Uber, because of the deeper pockets of their policy vs. a personal auto policy. Lawyers are only interested in chasing or defending someone who has the $$$.
> 
> Example: You get rear ended by an uninsured motorist, but don't have UM coverage, so you ask an attorney to help you sue the guy to get your medical bills. You'll get nothing but crickets. Now assume you have 300k in UM coverage. They'll be on the phone with your insurance company trying to get their 33% cut before you're even out of the office!
> 
> It's why going to a defense attorney about an accident is a waste of time too. Most of the time our defense counsel costs $10,000+ before a claim even goes to suit. You can't afford that, but insurance has the budget for it.


Of COURSE they go after Uber! Then, Uber says "hey, he just dropped someone off, so go after the driver instead" meanwhile, the drivers insurance company says "nope, nothing here, no coverage for livery service"
Then Uber says "well, here is a little something for your troubles, sorry about your loss"

Lawyers will use the driver to hammer Uber. Perhaps you have never been through an "independent contractor" accident which resulted in a death. 
I witnessed this directly (not as a company, but as a relative of someone who lost control of a vehicle and killed a young child after LEAVING a job site)
They dragged him through hell in order to get to the contracting company, in efforts to get to the principal. He had nothing, but it didn't stop them from trying. Nor should it.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> Of COURSE they go after Uber! Then, Uber says "hey, he just dropped someone off, so go after the driver instead" meanwhile, the drivers insurance company says "nope, nothing here, no coverage for livery service"
> Then Uber says "well, here is a little something for your troubles, sorry about your loss"
> 
> Lawyers will use the driver to hammer Uber. Perhaps you have never been through an "independent contractor" accident which resulted in a death.
> I witnessed this directly (not as a company, but as a relative of someone who lost control of a vehicle and killed a young child after LEAVING a job site)
> They dragged him through hell in order to get to the contracting company, in efforts to get to the principal. He had nothing, but it didn't stop them from trying. Nor should it.


Yeah, I've seen similar many times. Spent 30+ years in the biz and saw it go from legit employees with work comp and withholding to independent contractor, sub standard wage, no work comp, no withholding, nearly zero skills.

If there is a serious accident in the independent contractor arrangement, the guy at the bottom is simply wiped out and the first to go down. Then the lawyers start eating up the food chain to get to the money. If the accident was serious enough, they get everybody until they hit the big money. Then it's just friendly math negotiations. Uber will probably be pretty good at that game. But the drivers will probably lose everything they have.


----------



## Realityshark

Duke of Randolph said:


> It just seems to me that if you drive for uber, you are not insured and if you are not insured, you legally cant drive as we are uninsured motorists. Seems like a cycle that wont end. We wont become livery drivers or commercial drivers.. Defeats the purpose.
> 
> So what do we do?


We either quit or continue to drive a pray.


----------



## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> Yeah, I've seen similar many times. Spent 30+ years in the biz and saw it go from legit employees with work comp and withholding to independent contractor, sub standard wage, no work comp, no withholding, nearly zero skills.
> 
> If there is a serious accident in the independent contractor arrangement, the guy at the bottom is simply wiped out and the first to go down. Then the lawyers start eating up the food chain to get to the money. If the accident was serious enough, they get everybody until they hit the big money. Then it's just friendly math negotiations. Uber will probably be pretty good at that game. But the drivers will probably lose everything they have.


In my (his) case, he was not even a paid driver, he travelled to job sites, and his insurance did pay, but once their lawyers realized the name of the principal, the heat increased. We had multiple visits from investigators who interrogated US to try to implicate the principal. And we only saw this relative on occasion. If he had just been on his way home from the grocery store, as tragic as it would have been, it would not have dragged on for years.

At least, in his case, he never had any idea that he may be considered commercially liable on the road. I am sure he would never have taken that risk. In the case of these TNC drivers, they DO know, yet continue to do this.
The only exceptions are those who have gone to the trouble of obtaining a rider and have ample coverage in personal coverage so there is not such a gap between their liability and the standard commercial coverage. (I've only met one person who claims to have that)


----------



## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> In my (his) case, he was not even a paid driver, he travelled to job sites, and his insurance did pay, but once their lawyers realized the name of the principal, the heat increased. We had multiple visits from investigators who interrogated US to try to implicate the principal. And we only saw this relative on occasion. If he had just been on his way home from the grocery store, as tragic as it would have been, it would not have dragged on for years.
> 
> At least, in his case, he never had any idea that he may be considered commercially liable on the road. I am sure he would never have taken that risk. In the case of these TNC drivers, they DO know, yet continue to do this.
> The only exceptions are those who have gone to the trouble of obtaining a rider and have ample coverage in personal coverage so there is not such a gap between their liability and the standard commercial coverage. (I've only met one person who claims to have that)


Well, now you know 2. There is no freakin' way I'm trusting anyone else when it comes to insurance. This Uber riding insurance bareback is a sure formula for disaster for drivers.


----------



## Goober

I did not read through this all, but the only company that will reasonably cover this sort of thing is National Indemnity...however the rates are still 5-6K/year and similar to that of insuring a vehicle suited for Uber Black/i.e. any vehicle for commercial hire in a "new" business...

This is an extreme gap in available policies and one that some company could make absolute BANK on...quite the niche to fill if a company could market and price it right. Surprised Santander or whoever didn't offer it.


----------



## Tx rides

Goober said:


> I did not read through this all, but the only company that will reasonably cover this sort of thing is National Indemnity...however the rates are still 5-6K/year and similar to that of insuring a vehicle suited for Uber Black/i.e. any vehicle for commercial hire in a "new" business...
> 
> This is an extreme gap in available policies and one that some company could make absolute BANK on...quite the niche to fill if a company could market and price it right. Surprised Santander or whoever didn't offer it.


That is steep. That is more than we pay for our commercial vehicles!


----------



## Goober

Tx rides said:


> That is steep. That is more than we pay for our commercial vehicles!


Yes it is, but you probably have multiple vehicles and multiple years in business! They view it as a new independent operator without established clients! It's cheaper to insure a 6 pax limo because the commercial insurance companies view it as able to accommodate more 'clients'; insuring a sedan afterwards is even cheaper!


----------



## Tx rides

Goober said:


> Yes it is, but you probably have multiple vehicles and multiple years in business! They view it as a new independent operator without established clients! It's cheaper to insure a 6 pax limo because the commercial insurance companies view it as able to accommodate more 'clients'; insuring a sedan afterwards is even cheaper!


True. As a matter fact, our commercial carrier will not even insure somebody without several years experience. Additionally, drivers must be 25 years or older


----------



## Goober

Exactly why I called some cool dudes back once I turned 25, they interviewed me when I was just 21.


----------



## Tx rides

Goober said:


> I did not read through this all, but the only company that will reasonably cover this sort of thing is National Indemnity...however the rates are still 5-6K/year and similar to that of insuring a vehicle suited for Uber Black/i.e. any vehicle for commercial hire in a "new" business...
> 
> This is an extreme gap in available policies and one that some company could make absolute BANK on...quite the niche to fill if a company could market and price it right. Surprised Santander or whoever didn't offer it.


I met with an insurance executive several months ago, she told me "they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy: Company AND drivers. Big red flag across the board"

She is a director of innovative offerings. Her division is responsible for coming up with creative new solutions. What she, and many like her have observed for the last couple of years has observed is a company which throws caution (and regulations) to the wind, then steps back and let sit splatter all over the city, passengers, and even drivers. But this company would not exist if it were not for drivers willing to violate regulations openly. Therefore the idea of trusting the drivers to admit that they were on duty or not on duty is ridiculous, so affordable, tiered coverage is not likely to be added to many major offerings anytime soon. *Actions.... Meet consequences. *


----------



## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> I met with an insurance executive several months ago, she told me "they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy: Company AND drivers. Big red flag across the board"
> 
> She is a director of innovative offerings. Her division is responsible for coming up with creative new solutions. What she, and many like her have observed for the last couple of years has observed is a company which throws caution (and regulations) to the wind, then steps back and let sit splatter all over the city, passengers, and even drivers. But this company would not exist if it were not for drivers willing to violate regulations openly. Therefore the idea of trusting the drivers to admit that they were on duty or not on duty is ridiculous, so affordable, tiered coverage is not likely to be added to many major offerings anytime soon. *Actions.... Meet consequences. *


Very true. Said prior a company that does NOT care coupled with desperate drivers is a formula for disaster. A danger to the public.

Rather than Uber saying "Most personal insurance companies cover-" they should have said "most who drive as much as 'drive for hire,' especially with the shit for pay will have an accident sooner or later. Then you will be put out of business." etc etc


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## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> That is steep. That is more than we pay for our commercial vehicles!


What does a typical vehicle run to insure where you're at? (annual premium)


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## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> What does a typical vehicle run to insure where you're at? (annual premium)


 we hit 12k this year, multiple veh and a minibus(husband writes those checks, so I'm going on what he feeds me for my cost analysis tool)


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## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> Very true. Said prior a company that does care coupled with desperate drivers is a formula for disaster. A danger to the public.
> 
> Rather than Uber saying "Most personal insurance companies cover-" they should have said "most who drive as much as 'drive for hire,' especially with the shit for pay will have an accident sooner or later. Then you will be put out of business." etc etc


Well, as long as they use the "entrepreneur" tag, they can put all the homework, research, liability, accountability on a driver. Win, lose!


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## scrurbscrud

I am officially commercially insured. Dinked around with it since last week to get it done. Got a CADILLAC insurance policy with great limits that should be sufficient to keep any vulturous attorneys off my ass (in addition to other precautions I took before I started driving, LLC, transfer of vehicle into, etc etc).

My final cost is $416 a month. If I subtract what I was paying for regular auto insurance premium anyway it only cost me* a little over $300 a month* more to adequately cover myself AND my customers and to even put Uber's insurance in second place. I'll let the attorneys unwind the shit if anything ever happens, but at least I have a LIVERY policy in place so I can get it off my mind and BE LEGAL.

I drive XL full time so the cost really is not that much for the peace of mind it will provide. I'd expect that ANY UBERX driver, especially with a crappy car, could get their policy cost down to considerably less cost than mine. It would surprise me if the net cost for a low overhead (cheaper car) UberX driver's cost on this would run any more than maybe $225 a month or so OVER what they are paying now *to BE LEGAL*.

Good Luck!


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## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> we hit 12k this year, multiple veh and a minibus(husband writes those checks, so I'm going on what he feeds me for my cost analysis tool)


I meant for a single vehicle. How many veh. covered for the above cost? I may have to start financially babysitting some drivers as a side gig...


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## TheHottness

Where did you find it?


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## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> I am officially commercially insured. Dinked around with it since last week to get it done. Got a CADILLAC insurance policy with great limits that should be sufficient to keep any vulturous attorneys off my ass (in addition to other precautions I took before I started driving, LLC, transfer of vehicle into, etc etc).
> 
> My final cost is $416 a month. If I subtract what I was paying for regular auto insurance premium anyway it only cost me* a little over $300 a month* more to adequately cover myself AND my customers and to even put Uber's insurance in second place. I'll let the attorneys unwind the shit if anything ever happens, but at least I have a LIVERY policy in place so I can get it off my mind and BE LEGAL.
> 
> I drive XL full time so the cost really is not that much for the peace of mind it will provide. I'd expect that ANY UBERX driver, especially with a crappy car, could get their policy cost down to considerably less cost than mine. It would surprise me if the net cost for a low overhead (cheaper car) UberX driver's cost on this would run any more than maybe $225 a month or so OVER what they are paying now *to BE LEGAL*.
> 
> Good Luck!


Good for you! So, where you live, are you able to provide conventional car (advance res) service as well? If so, you really will be sitting in a butter tub!!!


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## scrurbscrud

TheHottness said:


> Where did you find it?


I called a good local commercial insurance agent. Rather than say which company (because there were several to choose from) it's best just to go local and shop because these things vary so much from state to state PLUS I don't want to put out personal specifics here for Uber to possibly see.


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## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> I meant for a single vehicle. How many veh. covered for the above cost? I may have to start financially babysitting some drivers as a side gig...


4 lux sedan, SUV, limo and mini. But we often went sprinters, and SUVs, and it does not really add anything for the multiple days.


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## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> I called a good local commercial insurance agent. Rather than say which company (because there were several to choose from) it's best just to go local and shop because these things vary so much from state to state PLUS I don't want to put out personal specifics here for Uber to possibly see.


I have been told that having a CDL is very beneficial, even if not required. I cannot say if that helped us get our insurance, my husband had a CDL all along. But our insurance company is very selective in background requirements. They expect you to have business background, driver background, etc. I think that is why we get such good rates from them.


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## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> Good for you! So, where you live, are you able to provide conventional car (advance res) service as well? If so, you really will be sitting in a butter tub!!!


There may be some side benefits to having this insurance arrangement that I will explore when I have time. Private client base building, etc. I'll have to check the RULZ.


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## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> 4 lux sedan, SUV, limo and mini. But we often went sprinters, and SUVs, and it does not really add anything for the multiple days.


That is a considerable price advantage. It may also be because of lesser rates in your state as well. These things seem to vary dramatically because of the local legal/population numbers etc, environment.


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## scrurbscrud

I'd expect the cost to come down over time. Have also considered picking up a CDL just to have one. Wish I would have had that off the list 20 years ago. Passed on some great biz opps by not having.


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## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> Or getting hired by anyone which does driver BG checks.


Most insurance companies automatically check credit and state driving records. Bad marks on either count is elimination from the commercial end in most cases.


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## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> Most insurance companies automatically check credit and state driving records. Bad marks on either count is elimination from the commercial end in most cases.


It is not like driving for Uber will bring in meth money.... I don't understand the number of people who have broken bad for this income source.

I remain dazed by the layers upon layers of legalities in New York which still afford a driver to make money after becoming legit. Cabbies and chauffeurs in that city are some seriously resourceful souls!


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## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> It is not like driving for Uber will bring in meth money.... I don't understand the number of people who have broken bad for this income source.
> 
> I remain dazed by the layers upon layers of legalities in New York which still afford a driver to make money after becoming legit. Cabbies and chauffeurs in that city are some seriously resourceful souls!


From what I can tell the system enforces legality there AND they get paid considerably more on Uber's end, as they should in that environment. I'd expect when reality weighs in most states legislatures will get the drivers to carry riders/commercial coverage. Probably won't take long either. A few accidents here and there and Uber will hush it under the rug but when the insurance companies catch on they'll force the issues through legislation just as they have in NYC.


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## Sean O'Gorman

scrurbscrud said:


> I am officially commercially insured. Dinked around with it since last week to get it done. Got a CADILLAC insurance policy with great limits that should be sufficient to keep any vulturous attorneys off my ass (in addition to other precautions I took before I started driving, LLC, transfer of vehicle into, etc etc).
> 
> My final cost is $416 a month. If I subtract what I was paying for regular auto insurance premium anyway it only cost me* a little over $300 a month* more to adequately cover myself AND my customers and to even put Uber's insurance in second place. I'll let the attorneys unwind the shit if anything ever happens, but at least I have a LIVERY policy in place so I can get it off my mind and BE LEGAL.
> 
> I drive XL full time so the cost really is not that much for the peace of mind it will provide. I'd expect that ANY UBERX driver, especially with a crappy car, could get their policy cost down to considerably less cost than mine. It would surprise me if the net cost for a low overhead (cheaper car) UberX driver's cost on this would run any more than maybe $225 a month or so OVER what they are paying now *to BE LEGAL*.
> 
> Good Luck!


Wow, congratulations on paying $4,992/year for something _already provided by Uber_. It'll make my day when your dick-ish, know-it-all attitude rubs enough customers the wrong way that you get deactivated and are stuck with that useless commercial policy.


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## Tx rides

Sean O'Gorman said:


> Wow, congratulations on paying $4,992/year for something _already provided by Uber_. It'll make my day when your dick-ish, know-it-all attitude rubs enough customers the wrong way that you get deactivated and are stuck with that useless commercial policy.


No, they DONT provide this coverage. They provide commercial liability only during trip, leaving a driver out to dry if staging at the cell phone lot at airports, in front of hotels, practically anywhere on a city street outside conventions, concerts, etc. They are also left exposed as they pull away from dropping off the passenger. We have had this discussion. 
In fact, on another forum, a woman explained how she hit a passengers's neighbor's car after dropping the passenger off. She ended up totally screwed on her personal insurance.
But, you know this is a risk. You are accepting the risk; that's your little bag of rocks.

He made a financially responsible choice. Furthermore, he will be able to drive independent of Uber, and that's making him a true independent contractor. I would probably contract out to him if I had a passenger traveling to his city. He shows attention to detail, adaptability, business acumen, and responsibility. I like that in an affiliate.

I'll tell you what I think is "dick-ish": Drivers who thumb their nose at laws, drivers who ask their passengers to lie and pretend to be friends at the airport, drivers who leave their passengers standing as they run away from enforcement agents, drivers who rate their passengers as 1 because they didn't tip, drivers who sneak into rented parking spaces and dare those who paid the rent to try to stop them, drivers who pull up to the curb to solicit passengers, drivers who cancel a run in order to grab a trip at surge price.


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## Sean O'Gorman

Tx rides said:


> No, they DONT provide this coverage. They provide commercial liability only during trip, leaving a driver out to dry if staging at the cell phone lot at airports, in front of hotels, practically anywhere on a city street outside conventions, concerts, etc. They are also left exposed as they pull away from dropping off the passenger. We have had this discussion.
> In fact, on another forum, a woman explained how she hit a passengers's neighbor's car after dropping the passenger off. She ended up totally screwed on her personal insurance.


Link to the forum post, please?

When you're not driving a customer or on the way to pick them up, you're not using your vehicle as a livery vehicle or to transport people or goods for a fee. Therefore, once the ride is over, if you pull away from a hotel, you're on your own time, and it's no different than a salesperson leaving that hotel in their own personal car and having an accident. It's a covered loss.

Whatever insurance company denied coverage for the woman who hit the neighbor's car is leaving themselves open for a serious bad faith lawsuit. Juries don't like insurance companies.


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## Tx rides

Sean O'Gorman said:


> Link to the forum post, please?
> 
> When you're not driving a customer or on the way to pick them up, you're not using your vehicle as a livery vehicle or to transport people or goods for a fee. Therefore, once the ride is over, if you pull away from a hotel, you're on your own time, and it's no different than a salesperson leaving that hotel in their own personal car and having an accident. It's a covered loss.
> 
> Whatever insurance company denied coverage for the woman who hit the neighbor's car is leaving themselves open for a serious bad faith lawsuit. Juries don't like insurance companies.


Bullshit


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## Tx rides

Sean goes on ignore. I see no reason to debate the obvious with someone who still cannot put it in writing. Furthermore, he is part of what is wrong with Uber, IMO.
Obfuscation and outright lies.

To new drivers, as others have advised: ASK your provider. If you are afraid to ask your provider - WHY is that? Is it because you kind of already know the answer?

Ask the airport who is liable when you are in the cell phone lot. Try to tell your insurance provider you were just "waiting on a friend". Wait until the enforcement staff tell the cops that they see you there frequently, WITH Uber dress. The ONLY way your personal coverage will apply is if you commit fraud. Or - smash into a passenger's kid on the street. You think THEY won't say you are an UBER driver? Think their neighbor won't find this out if you swipe their vehicle? When we decided to run our own business, we took ALL required steps to be legal and fully insured at all turns. We don't have to worry about losing our home, our future income, etc. That is part of starting a business. Remember, you are all 'entrepreneurs' - per Uber. The responsibility is on YOU to follow all rules, regulations and laws. You agreed to this when you signed on, the passengers are also advised that YOU are not Uber, YOU are independent contractors. You need to act like such, to protect your own interests.


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## scrurbscrud

Sean O'Gorman said:


> Wow, congratulations on paying $4,992/year for something _already provided by Uber_. It'll make my day when your dick-ish, know-it-all attitude rubs enough customers the wrong way that you get deactivated and are stuck with that useless commercial policy.


I called my personal auto insurance company and they said I was screwed. Had I listened to your advice I'd be sticking my neck out for ZERO reason.

You just give bad advice and nothing more. Drivers need to simply call and find out for themselves. You shill the FALSE WAY. Your claim is easily checked for truth by one simple phone call, and is worse than questionable. It's the same shit Uber does. *Fills their drivers with bullshit false information.* And they are so desperate they really don't want to know the truth anyway. I'm not desperate and I like to know the facts.

Beside all that, taking into account what I was already paying the cost was less, net. You do know net differential cost right? Uh, maybe not.


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## SCdave

Those (well I'm using "Those" quite loosely here of course) with Commercial Insurance Policies, have you asked Uber if they will Waive the $1 Safe Rider Fee with proof of Commercial Insurance? Know the answer but would like to see it in writing.


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## scrurbscrud

SCdave said:


> Those (well I'm using "Those" quite loosely here of course) with Commercial Insurance Policies, have you asked Uber if they will Waive the $1 Safe Rider Fee with proof of Commercial Insurance? Know the answer but would like to see it in writing.


Good question. Since I'm now paying more that will be on my check list.

I would also request any drivers who DO bother to check with their personal auto insurance carriers and asks them if their personal auto insurance covers ride sharing aka driving others for pay to report what they hear and even provide the name of the company, especially if they say it's OK so others can contact them.


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## SCdave

scrurbscrud said:


> Good question. Since I'm now paying more that will be on my check list.
> 
> I would also request any drivers who DO bother to check with their personal auto insurance carriers and asks them if their personal auto insurance covers ride sharing aka driving others for pay to report what they hear and even provide the name of the company, especially if they say it's OK so others can contact them.


That was a rhetorical question 

Maybe the question to ask (when you call not using your real name and as a "potential new customer" who is Caller ID blocking their number and "only thinking about driving for, say, Uber or Lyft) is, " When in the future will your company be providing Rideshare/TNC insurance" since "I wouldn't even consider doing this until your insurance company does provide an insurance product for Rideshare/TNCs? Just took a breath 

That may be a better way of wording it so enough of us actually make the calls.


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## Atlwarrior

Is anyone else even more confused after reading all these comments. If personal insurance does not cover liability wouldn't local officials shut down Uber driving privileges immediately. I would to hear from someone who was actually had a accident.


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## Tx rides

Atlwarrior said:


> Is anyone else even more confused after reading all these comments. If personal insurance does not cover liability wouldn't local officials shut down Uber driving privileges immediately. I would to hear from someone who was actually had a accident.


I can attest to the hoodwinking which has occurred in Austin. The city council has glazed over the obvious gaps, even as Other cities (and states) have written laws to close the gap. (CA AB 2293 for example). 
http://www.scpr.org/blogs/economy/2...igning-of-insurance-bill-a-ridesharing-looph/

It has always been a major exposure, and the company has moonwalked and jazz handed to distract and confuse the city leaders around the world. SC just declared their policy adequate, with the state insurance director contradicting himself in one statement!

I swear, if you sat through some of the city council meetings in Austin, and listened to some of the stupid questions these "leaders" ask , you would have to excuse yourself when you burst into laughter !!!


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## RealGunna

I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with TX RIDES. Anyone who DARES drive for a company who provides 1 million in commercial insurance during your trip, without HAVING A REDUNDANT COMMERCIAL INS POLICY IS BREAKING THE LAW.

Let is NEVER forget, EVERY SINGLE DOMINO'S PIZZA DELIVERY DRIVER MUST, I SAY, ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE FULL COMMERCIAL INSURANCE, or YOU are LAW BREAKING CRIMINAL SCUM.


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## Tx rides

RealGunna said:


> I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with TX RIDES. Anyone who DARES drive for a company who provides 1 million in commercial insurance during your trip, without HAVING A REDUNDANT COMMERCIAL INS POLICY IS BREAKING THE LAW.
> 
> Let is NEVER forget, EVERY SINGLE DOMINO'S PIZZA DELIVERY DRIVER MUST, I SAY, ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE FULL COMMERCIAL INSURANCE, or YOU are LAW BREAKING CRIMINAL SCUM.


It is not redundant, and laws vary by city and state. If the Uber coverage for phase 1 is contingent on your personal coverage, and your personal coverage has a livery exclusion , you are effectively uninsured during that phase, And that's against every state law I've ever read.


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