# UBER waited too long -- IPO market collapses



## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

"And many companies will never make it over the line.

For them, the mythical "IPO window" had closed. For the IPO window to open, there must be smooth high-flying markets where gullible enthusiastic investors buy into _any_ story, brush off big losses, ignore high cash-burn rates, and swallow hook, line, and sinker the alternative financial and operational metrics proffered by management and Wall Street."

*http://wolfstreet.com/2015/12/22/ip...st-year-since-2009-worst-december-since-2008/*


----------



## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

As if anybody has a crystal ball...

Another opinion:
This was the year when tech companies turned their backs on the initial-public-offering market.
Investment bankers are expecting 2016 to be the year they come back.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tech-ipo-outlook-for-2016-2015-12


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

But I mean what if Uber opened stock today,then next year their business model crumbles say because they lose lawsuits and more taxi like regulations apply to drivers. Stock holder gonna be pissed when the stock value plummets


----------



## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> But I mean what if Uber opened stock today,then next year their business model crumbles say because they lose lawsuits and more taxi like regulations apply to drivers. Stock holder gonna be pissed when the stock value plummets


Right!
Wait!
What if the opposite is what happens?


----------



## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> But I mean what if Uber opened stock today,then next year their business model crumbles say because they lose lawsuits and more taxi like regulations apply to drivers. Stock holder gonna be pissed when the stock value plummets


Sounds likely to me. Short uber the day it goes public!


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Backdash said:


> Right!
> Wait!
> What if the opposite is what happens?


The way I see it, one day, not sure how soon, lawsuits and regulation will catch up to Uber.
The only way out would be driverless cars, which is still light years away. Even tho driverless cars for private citizens MAY be a year or 2 away, you already see california demanding a human be in the car even tho its "driverless". So it takes that much more longer to make the cars available for business/livery use.


----------



## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

I am one of those people that believes Uber can fix their problems by setting the rates at a sustainable level that is beneficial to Uber, the drivers and the riders. 

However, I don't believe the current management will be the ones to do this. No one that got them into this position has the brainpower to get them out of it. 

Once the problems are fixed, then the IPO should be fine.


----------



## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

There's an old saying about predicting things. 
If you're going to predict, predict often. Eventually you'll be right.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Bob Reynolds said:


> I am one of those people that believes Uber can fix their problems by setting the rates at a sustainable level that is beneficial to Uber, the drivers
> 
> Once the problems are fixed, then the IPO should be fine.


Travis has said his goal is for Uber to be cheaper than owning a car. For that to happen (with human drivers), there can never be a sustainable rate level. Rate has to go down down down for that to happen

So I don't see that fix


----------



## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> Travis has said his goal is for Uber to be cheaper than owning a car. For that to happen (with human drivers), there can never be a sustainable rate level. Rate has to go down down down for that to happen
> 
> So I don't see that fix


Maybe Travis has the wrong goal.

Maybe the goal should not be to cheaper than owning a car.

Maybe the goal should be to operate the best dam cab company in the world.


----------



## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Maybe Travis has the wrong goal.
> 
> Maybe the goal should not be to cheaper than owning a car.
> 
> Maybe the goal should be to operate the best dam cab company in the world.


Maybe the goal should be to turn a profit, something Travis has never done. Every company he's started has gone bankrupt, Uber will be no different.

His main strength is pulling the wool over his investors' eyes.


----------



## Ubernice (Nov 6, 2015)

Is so funny to see how many people driving for über partner platform worry and get in panic with the idea of driverless cars
Driverless car lol, what a joke, it never goint to happen, we dont got to worry about it
The main asset that uber partner platform has is the bunch of enthusiastics drivers and their santander leased car
Uber partner platform dont have to worry about wear, tear, depreciation , storage, gas, maintenance, repairs, registration, insurance, clean up........ect; uber partner platform knows that he has all of us willing to do all of this and more for a supplementary income in our spare time
So please keep driving couse driverless cars never going to happen
Lmao


----------



## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> Maybe the goal should be to turn a profit, something Travis has never done. Every company he's started has gone bankrupt, Uber will be no different.
> 
> His main strength is pulling the wool over his investors' eyes.


How many companies has Travis started? What are the names of those companies?


----------



## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> How many companies has Travis started? What are the names of those companies?


Scour which went bankrupt, and Red Swoosh which was purchased by Akamai Technologies.

I stand corrected. Only half the companies Travis founded have gone bankrupt. So far.


----------



## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

"But I mean what if Uber opened stock today,then next year their business model crumbles say because they lose lawsuits and more taxi like regulations apply to drivers. Stock holder gonna be pissed when the stock value plummets"


Just ask Martha Stewart.


----------



## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

Taxi drivers pay to rent a vehicle and pay the owner/dispatcher.

Uber drivers pay about the same to Uber.

Uber does not provide any car to the drivers. So where is the Bentley?

Travis if full of sh....


----------



## Wyatt (Apr 17, 2014)

Its a great biz model. It will go public and people will buy it. Its already cheaper than owning a car in condensed populations but that is NOT the goal. The goal is to make as much money as possible and get the highest valuation you can, then sell it by the share.


----------



## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

If it is so sweet what is Uber waiting for? 

I believe, Investors are getting mixed signal of the shady Illegal Business.


----------



## Wyatt (Apr 17, 2014)

They are waiting until their valuation is as high as they think they can get it.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Wyatt said:


> Its a great biz model. It will go public and people will buy it. Its already cheaper than owning a car in condensed populations but that is NOT the goal. The goal is to make as much money as possible and get the highest valuation you can, then sell it by the share.


Yeah but you do know the company needs to stay profitable right?

Can you gurantee the ongoing lawsuits or future regulations won't prevent that?


----------



## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

If Uber's business model is so fragile that they would go out of business if they were required to make sure their drivers make at least the minimum wage then Uber should not be in business. It's that simple and they should not have attempted this in the first place.


----------



## Wyatt (Apr 17, 2014)

They will just raise the rates to stay profiable. The legal team at Uber is smarter than the State government.


----------



## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Wyatt said:


> They will just raise the rates to stay profiable. The legal team at Uber is smarter than the State government.


Bingo!!!!

And why didn't they just do this in the first place and avoid all of this legal mess they are in?

Sounds like the legal team at Uber is not as smart as you think they are.


----------



## Wyatt (Apr 17, 2014)

They had the highest rates when they started. Because there is competition, the rates had to come down in order to maintain market share and get the ridiculous valuations that they are still getting from very rich, very smart people.


----------



## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Wyatt said:


> They had the highest rates when they started. Because there is competition, the rates had to come down in order to maintain market share and get the ridiculous valuations that they are still getting from very rich, very smart people.


Very rich and very smart? Isn't that what they said about Enron?


----------



## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> Maybe the goal should be to turn a profit, something Travis has never done. Every company he's started has gone bankrupt, Uber will be no different.
> 
> His main strength is pulling the wool over his investors' eyes.


Nice! not to mention he was sued for a quarter of a trillion dollars


----------



## MagicDrone (Aug 31, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Travis has said his goal is for Uber to be cheaper than owning a car. For that to happen (with human drivers), there can never be a sustainable rate level. Rate has to go down down down for that to happen
> 
> So I don't see that fix


Why do people keep signing up to drive if the rates are so low? The company has a business model that is working, most companies have disgruntled employees.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

MagicDrone said:


> Why do people keep signing up to drive if the rates are so low? The company has a business model that is working, most companies have disgruntled employees.


What it has is high turnover and a bunch of part timers who have another job. Meanwhile, it erotes the former full time pay transportation industry jobs with the part timers chpping away at it. The whole thing is pathetic.


----------



## MagicDrone (Aug 31, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> What it has is high turnover and a bunch of part timers who have another job. Meanwhile, it erotes the former full time pay transportation industry jobs with the part timers chpping away at it. The whole thing is pathetic.


It provides a way for people to make addition income on a part time basis and a full time income for drivers who will accept the wage and lifestyle.

The high turnover is an opportunity for people and companies to make income from referrals, advertising, background checks, and processing.

The former transportation industry is fading as the technological revolution continues to take over archaic industries.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

MagicDrone said:


> It provides a way for people to make addition income on a part time basis and a full time income for drivers who will accept the wage and lifestyle.
> 
> The high turnover is an opportunity for people and companies to make income from referrals, advertising, background checks, and processing.
> 
> The former transportation industry is fading as the technological revolution continues to take over archaic industries.


That part time money comes out of the pockets of legitimate cab and black car drivers who can no longer make full time money. It's disgusting. Spare me the 'archaic' garbage. Uber just breaks the law.


----------



## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

MagicDrone said:


> Why do people keep signing up to drive if the rates are so low? The company has a business model that is working, most companies have disgruntled employees.


Most companies do have disgruntled employees. There is no argument there. However employees at most companies are making at least the minimum wage. Most drivers at Uber are not making at least the minimum wage.


----------



## MagicDrone (Aug 31, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> That part time money comes out of the pockets of legitimate cab and black car drivers who can no longer make full time money. It's disgusting. Spare me the 'archaic' garbage. Uber just breaks the law.


If Uber and all rideshare companies are breaking the law why are they still in business, so popular, and worth billions?

Why have traditional transportation companies not moved to a new model and allowed themselves to be canabalized by new startups?


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

MagicDrone said:


> If Uber and all rideshare companies are breaking the law why are they still in business, so popular, and worth billions?
> 
> Why have traditional transportation companies not moved to a new model and allowed themselves to be canabalized by new startups?


Because they've paid so many people off and coerced so many to bend the laws for them.

There are multiple major lawsuits, including Federal. Uber has been kicked out of entire countries for very good reason.

It is no form of 'new model' it is open illegality with an army of improperly insured drivers stealing business from legitimate industries.


----------



## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

MagicDrone said:


> If Uber and all rideshare companies are breaking the law why are they still in business, so popular, and worth billions?
> 
> Why have traditional transportation companies not moved to a new model and allowed themselves to be canabalized by new startups?


Traditional transportation companies are moving to an app based business model in many cities. Here in Orlando, Mears Transportation already has their app in available in the app store on both the iphone and the androids. Within the next year all of the major players in all US cities will have an app based model.

The problem the traditional transportation companies are having competing with Uber is the fact that they have to pay their employees according to the Federal Wage and Hour Laws. Uber is ignoring Federal Wage and Hour Laws and many drivers are working for $2.00 or less per hour after the vehicle expenses are deducted.

In 2016, the wage issue will likely be decided, by the Department of Labor and the IRS. The courts will then uphold those rulings. Uber can appeal, but while they appeal, the amount they owe will keep adding up. The courts could also require Uber to deposit a bond for the amount due if they do appeal. That should tie up billions of dollars for a basically futile effort. The courts could also require that Uber pay the minimum wage and vehicle expenses while the appeal is going on. That will also make the appeal futile.

If the DOL and IRS consider drivers to be employees, Uber will be forced to pay the minimum wage as well as the vehicle expenses. (just like traditional transportation companies)

Uber will be hit will penalties and interest and back wages for the drivers that drove on the platform in 2014 and 2015 and did not make the minimum wage. It appears that prior to July of 2014, most drivers did make the minimum wage when they drove for Uber. The cut in pay came after Uber dropped the rates three different times to a point below the cost to provide the service in an effort to put competitors out of business. (That is a separate issue)

Uber will also be hit with vehicle reimbursement expenses at .575 cents a mile for every mile the Uber drivers drove with the app on in 2015 and .56 cents per mile for every mile the drivers drove in 2014 with the app on. If all of this stands, drivers will also be reimbursed .54 cents a mile for every mile they drive in 2016.

You might be interested to know that the penalties that Uber will have to pay, if the DOL and IRS consider the drivers to be employees will be 2 times the amount they should have paid. Add interest to this amount and it can amount to 10's of thousands of dollars that will be due each driver.


----------



## UberBlackPr1nce (Dec 28, 2014)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Traditional transportation companies are moving to an app based business model in many cities. Here in Orlando, Mears Transportation already has their app in available in the app store on both the iphone and the androids. Within the next year all of the major players in all US cities will have an app based model.
> 
> The problem the traditional transportation companies are having competing with Uber is the fact that they have to pay their employees according to the Federal Wage and Hour Laws. Uber is ignoring Federal Wage and Hour Laws and many drivers are working for $2.00 or less per hour after the vehicle expenses are deducted.
> 
> ...


Wishful thinking.


----------



## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Bob Reynolds said:


> If the DOL and IRS consider drivers to be employees, Uber will be forced to pay the minimum wage as well as the vehicle expenses. (just like traditional transportation companies)


Most taxi companies use independent contractors just like Uber does and do not pay minimum wage or expenses. Uber has just copied the taxi model, ignored local regulations and taken their taxi/uberx company worldwide.


----------



## MagicDrone (Aug 31, 2015)

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> Wishful thinking.


Bob makes very valid points, but these types of thing can get tied up in court for years before anything is settled. Then who really benefits...the lawyers. Each driver during that time period will either get a form in the mail to complete to get a very small cut of the settlement, and most will not return the form or a small settlement check, like the one I got from ATT for $14.35 for their wrong doing.

I like the wishful thinking and positive outlook on any recourse, but in the end we will still drive for Uber and maybe get minimum wage eventually.


----------



## MagicDrone (Aug 31, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> Because they've paid so many people off and coerced so many to bend the laws for them.
> 
> There are multiple major lawsuits, including Federal. Uber has been kicked out of entire countries for very good reason.
> 
> It is no form of 'new model' it is open illegality with an army of improperly insured drivers stealing business from legitimate industries.


I have not followed many other rideshare companies, are they following the same corrupt business model?

You would think Uber would want to be legit as they take over a % of the transportation business. In the end it is really all about the $$.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

MagicDrone said:


> I have not followed many other rideshare companies, are they following the same corrupt business model?
> 
> You would think Uber would want to be legit as they take over a % of the transportation business. In the end it is really all about the $$.


Yes it's all the same garbage.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

MagicDrone said:


> Why do people keep signing up to drive if the rates are so low? The company has a business model that is working, most companies have disgruntled employees.


Most people that sign up are either lazy or desperate,and Uber exploits these type of people to the fullest. Lazy people that don't want to do the extra work of getting another job that requires certain work hours or dealing with managers/coworkers. Desperate people who are behind on bills and gotta put food on the table. Folks who think "some money is better than no money"


----------



## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

Please pass the Note:

Driver >>> PAX >>> Driver








Please use the back of your old business cards.

Driver >>> PAX >>> Driver


----------



## Tommy Tours (Sep 19, 2014)

Well don't see Uber going public until 2017 maybe. watching CNBC and they listed the top 12 IPO's for 2016. There's a closer look at IPO's for 2016.
Uber will have to changed their management team and show more profitability.


----------



## HRRhino (Nov 18, 2015)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> Maybe the goal should be to turn a profit, something Travis has never done. Every company he's started has gone bankrupt, Uber will be no different.
> 
> His main strength is pulling the wool over his investors' eyes.


Yes, and he should run for President of the USA!


----------



## Jufkii (Sep 17, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Most people that sign up are either lazy or desperate,and Uber exploits these type of people to the fullest. Lazy people that don't want to do the extra work of getting another job that requires certain work hours or dealing with managers/coworkers. Desperate people who are behind on bills and gotta put food on the table. Folks who think "some money is better than no money"


I was neither lazy nor desperate when I signed up for Uber, Clueless a bit regarding just how razor thin the profits margins were going to be. Wouldn't know for sure without giving it a try in my market. But lazy or desperate? Nah.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Jufkii said:


> I was neither lazy nor desperate when I signed up for Uber, Clueless a bit regarding just how razor thin the profits margins were going to be. Wouldn't know for sure without giving it a try in my market. But lazy or desperate? Nah.


Im only talking about people who sign up in markets where they pay under $1/mile, like Atlanta, Dallas and Chicago. There's no profits to be made at those rates


----------



## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

UberTaxPro said:


> Sounds likely to me. Short uber the day it goes public!


UBER could be like FB. First time investors (users) will be all over it because they use UBER frequently. SO how can it lose. 
Also like FB it will soar over IPO price,briefly. Then plunge on your short and all the pro shorts. Shaking out all the rider investors. Big money will then purchase like they did FB. I purchased some FB for my son, didn't hit the bottom but was (am) happy with the 20.25


----------

