# Upfront cash premium negotiation techniques



## NotMe (Sep 5, 2017)

Do you negotiate price if it appeared to be long trip with low chance for return pickups? Can you share the BKMs?


----------



## Marshall31797 (Apr 10, 2016)

Yes I do certainly!!


----------



## NotMe (Sep 5, 2017)

Marshall31797 said:


> Yes I do certainly!!


Is it: accept->SMS->get destination->negotiate-> go or cancel do not charge if negotiation failed?


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

With uber/lyft you need to just cancel..

You run the risk of..
A. having the customer report you for "extorting them"
B. having the customer tell support they never got the ride and scamming you of the entire trip
c. having them tell support that they paid you cash, and getting a refund off the cash amount.

A. $100 through uber, nothing more, you get deactivated (total $100 and you lose your job)
B. $100- MINUS $100 after you drop them off ($0 total)
C. $100 + $50 -$200 after they scam support (total $-50) (YES scamming you for more than they paid you)


Your best bet is to just say no.


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Uber rules allow you to negotiate return trip fees. I have posted this elsewhere, but I'll do it again:

Me: '' Good morning. *swiping ap* Oh, I see we're going to San Francisco. Great. You need to know that there is a 'return trip surcharge' for out of town trips. I charge fifty cents per mile. San Francisco is about 200 miles away so that would be a $100 cash fee, up front before we leave town. Do we need to go to an ATM?''
I let this sink in for awhile. I usually get a blank stare as they consider ...
I go on to say: ''You don't have to pay this. If you wish, I will cancel the ride with no charge to you and you can try another driver. Up to you.''

At this point I get a couple of questions. 
Pax: Is this ok with Uber?
Answer: Yes. We are allowed to negotiate return trip fees.
Pax: I thought it was all-inclusive. 
Me: No, its not. The amount Uber quoted you was for the trip TO the destination. I have additional costs. Wear and tear on the car and me, gas, my three hours behind the wheel to get home ... these are all costs that Uber doesn't charge for in the initial trip fees that they charge. 
Pax: Can I just tip you on the ap?
Me: No. Uber won't allow a 'tip' of that size.
Pax; Can't I just pay you when we get there.
Me: No. Believe it or not, some people lie. They will promise a payment, then just walk away at the end of the ride - then there I am, stuck 200 miles from home. We need to take care of it before we leave town.

If they get pissed, or attitude starts showing up ... I canx RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM, and wish them the best of luck. Remember, you're going to spend three hours with the ass-hat in a small cabin.

A one star rating? I really don't give a husky **** about that. Can't spend those stars. 
Four out of five will pay the fee. One of those four will negotiate the fifty cents a mile rate, and I will give a little on that, but not much. 

This is what I do, and have successfully done many times.


----------



## NotMe (Sep 5, 2017)

This approach is more inline with my understanding of how it can be ever profitable.


----------



## Uberdmvdriver (Nov 3, 2020)

UberBastid said:


> Uber rules allow you to negotiate return trip fees. I have posted this elsewhere, but I'll do it again:
> 
> Me: '' Good morning. _swiping ap_ Oh, I see we're going to San Francisco. Great. You need to know that there is a 'return trip surcharge' for out of town trips. I charge fifty cents per mile. San Francisco is about 200 miles away so that would be a $100 cash fee, up front before we leave town. Do we need to go to an ATM?''
> I let this sink in for awhile. I usually get a blank stare as they consider ...
> ...


Nice! I really like your cool strategy. I am going to use that in the future. I have had a couple long distance 4 hour trips that I previously declined for fear of getting cheated and didn't want to believe the horrible lie, "I will tip you in the app."


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

That was a doozie


I did the exact same thing. About fifty / fifty on acceptance. Both Spokane and Portland were $160 surcharge.


----------



## Terrapin Bound (Mar 4, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> Uber rules allow you to negotiate return trip fees. I have posted this elsewhere, but I'll do it again:
> 
> Me: '' Good morning. _swiping ap_ Oh, I see we're going to San Francisco. Great. You need to know that there is a 'return trip surcharge' for out of town trips.
> ''You don't have to pay this. If you wish, I will cancel the ride with no charge to you and you can try another driver. Up to you.''
> ...



Where in the Uber Agreement does it say you can negotiate return fees? Is it explicitly authorized, or simply "not disallowed"? 
I generally just cancel but might reconsider if it's legit.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Terrapin Bound said:


> Where in the Uber Agreement does it say you can negotiate return fees? Is it explicitly authorized, or simply "not disallowed"?
> I generally just cancel but might reconsider if it's legit.


Holy crap, I just logged into the partner site and I have so many documents and agreements now that I can't even find the one for ride fares much less the stipulation on return fees. What a hot mess!


----------



## Terrapin Bound (Mar 4, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Holy crap, I just logged into the partner site and I have so many documents and agreements now that I can't even find the one for ride fares much less the stipulation on return fees. What a hot mess!


I couldn't find it either. The original post was from 2017, when times were simpler


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> Uber rules allow you to negotiate return trip fees. I have posted this elsewhere, but I'll do it again:
> 
> Me: '' Good morning. _swiping ap_ Oh, I see we're going to San Francisco. Great. You need to know that there is a 'return trip surcharge' for out of town trips. I charge fifty cents per mile. San Francisco is about 200 miles away so that would be a $100 cash fee, up front before we leave town. Do we need to go to an ATM?''
> I let this sink in for awhile. I usually get a blank stare as they consider ...
> ...


This is an old post but the question about long rides and negotiating return fees is still relevant, 

Uber does not allow this. At one point there was something in the app that some drivers misinterpreted to allow cash payments for the ride home . But it was removed

I simply ask myself the question. Do I think I can make more staying close to home?, if so I cancel, if not I accept

Over the last 3.5 years doing this, my dead miles and my paid miles are about equal. So even if I have to drive home empty, one long ride like this won’t affect my averages and some days a really appreciate the “alone time”


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

oldfart said:


> simply ask myself the question. Do I think I can make more staying close to home


I used to simply ask myself the question: Do I want to work for a company that will not allow me to be profitable?
So, I collected my return trip fee, or I cancelled.
And if Uber didn't like that they could fire me.

I didn't GAF either way.

.


----------



## Terrapin Bound (Mar 4, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> I used to simply ask myself the question: Do I want to work for a company that will not allow me to be profitable?
> So, I collected my return trip fee, or I cancelled.
> And if Uber didn't like that they could fire me.
> 
> I didn't GAF either way.


How did it work out overall for you in the ensuing years since your post?
And, you're talking in past tense, you're not driving anymore?


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Terrapin Bound said:


> How did it work out overall for you in the ensuing years since your post?
> And, you're talking in past tense, you're not driving anymore?


No, I haven't driven for about three years. 

My *first* goal was to meet as many people as possible who could help me. 
My* second* goal was to stay safe.
My *third* goal was to be profitable, or at least break even.

I found such a person, followed up, interviewed ... and I don't drive any more.
I used Uber for _my_ benefit and pleasure ... not the other way around.


,


----------



## Terrapin Bound (Mar 4, 2019)

UberBastid said:


> No, I haven't driven for about three years.
> 
> My *first* goal was to meet as many people as possible who could help me.
> My* second* goal was to stay safe.
> My *third* goal was to be profitable, or at least break even.


Sounds like an interesting backstory.
My only goal is to be profitable. It's working, currently. Will see how long it lasts, & re-evaluate as necessary.

EDIT: Safety is also a goal. So far it hasn't been an issue. Annoyed and aggravated from time to time, but never yet felt threatened or unsafe. 
That day may come, and I'm considering additional self defense options; my good looks and charming personality will only get me so far.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> I used to simply ask myself the question: Do I want to work for a company that will not allow me to be profitable?
> So, I collected my return trip fee, or I cancelled.
> And if Uber didn't like that they could fire me.
> 
> ...


I do a few things that I'm sure Uber would not approve of. I also know that at any moment, my "career" with Uber could be over. I've gotten one driving under the influence so give me a free ride complaint so I'm guessing a second one might be it. I look for this money to be a nice supplement for me to help me have a better retirement so I'll be OK when the music ends. Meanwhile, I'd rather gross $40 an hour than play by their rules and probably do 25 to 28. I'm an IC and I will act like one. I refuse to blackmail myself into worrying what will happen if ... and not doing what's in my best interest. 7 years, suspended once for maximizing my income on promotions (giving myself rides when it wasn't a violation of the terms but they didn't like that) and deactivated for a few days while they pretended to investigate the driving while impaired complaint. When my time comes, it comes but I've made some decent coin in the meantime.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> I used to simply ask myself the question: Do I want to work for a company that will not allow me to be profitable?
> So, I collected my return trip fee, or I cancelled.
> And if Uber didn't like that they could fire me.
> 
> ...


If you dont care why not cancel and negotiate a cash price for the entire trip, Leave uber out of it


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

The pax help section used to have a paragraph that stated that drivers may charge them a return fee for long trips. This was sort of "permission" by Uber for drivers to charge a return fee.

Around two years ago Uber not only removed that paragraph, they added a clause to the driver contract that expressly forbids drivers from charging any additional fees from pax.

By the way, when I did rideshare, I accepted three long trips but cancelled all three because the pax refused to pay me a cash-upfront return fee.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

oldfart said:


> If you dont care why not cancel and negotiate a cash price for the entire trip, Leave uber out of it


Aside from getting fired there are legal and financial risks in taking cash rides if you don't have the proper insurance and permit to do so.


----------



## Uberdmvdriver (Nov 3, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Aside from getting fired there are legal and financial risks in taking cash rides if you don't have the proper insurance and permit to do so.


Sounds logical but I am having difficulty wrapping my mind around the risks mentioned when the driver is not bringing the rider on a return trip.


----------



## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> ...Around two years ago Uber not only removed that paragraph, they added a clause to the driver contract that expressly forbids drivers from charging any additional fees from pax.


That's horrible hypocrisy. The driver is an IC and is paid 1970's taxi rates, but yet is not allowed to ask for return fare. So, I am treated like an employee, paid crappy employee fares but have no right as an IC to charge the cost of the service for the return trip that is likely deadhead miles?


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

oldfart said:


> If you dont care why not cancel and negotiate a cash price for the entire trip, Leave uber out of it


Because it violates my first two goals ... meet lots of people and be safe.
Not only that .. but, it's cheating.
I don't cheat unless I have to ... and in this case I didn't have to.
I honestly 'told' Uber that I will negotiate a return fee and if they don't like it they can fire me.

Every time I turned on the ap I was semi-surprised that it booted up. I only got temp deactivated one time in the two years I drove and I deserved it.

Keep it simple: take the ride, if necessary negotiate a return fee, pitch myself to the occupant ... rinse and repeat.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> That's horrible hypocrisy. The driver is an IC and is paid 1970's taxi rates, but yet is not allowed to ask for return fare. So, I am treated like an employee, paid crappy employee fares but have no right as an IC to charge the cost of the service for the return trip that is likely deadhead miles?


You are an independent contractor for sure. The operative word here is “contractor” and the terms of our contract say that negotiating cash payments over and above what the customer is charged on the app is not allowed. Don’t like it? Don’t use Uber to find your customers. Get your own permits, Do your own advertising and marketing and pay some other company to process your credit card payments


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> Because it violates my first two goals ... meet lots of people and be safe.
> Not only that .. but, it's cheating.
> I don't cheat unless I have to ... and in this case I didn't have to.
> I honestly 'told' Uber that I will negotiate a return fee and if they don't like it they can fire me.
> ...


understood


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Aside from getting fired there are legal and financial risks in taking cash rides if you don't have the proper insurance and permit to do so.


Permits and commercial insurance are of course necessary expenses if you do private rides. 
I wonder if they aren't also necessary if a driver negotiates an extra payment from an uber customer


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Permits and commercial insurance are of course necessary expenses if you do private rides.
> I wonder if they aren't also necessary if a driver negotiates an extra payment from an uber customer


I think that the attorney for the injured passenger would think so ...


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

oldfart said:


> Permits and commercial insurance are of course necessary expenses if you do private rides.
> I wonder if they aren't also necessary if a driver negotiates an extra payment from an uber customer


Given the fact that Uber previously gave tacit permission (pax help section stated that drivers may charge a return fee for long trips), it's unlikely there would be any legal or insurance ramifications so long as the driver took the pax to the destination on the app.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> I think that the attorney for the injured passenger would think so ...


Why would the attorney do such a thing when the result could be letting Uber and the driver's insurance company off the hook?

If that occurred, the pax and the attorney would in all likelihood end up with nothing.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Why would the attorney do such a thing when the result could be letting Uber and the driver's insurance company off the hook?
> 
> If that occurred, the pax and the attorney would in all likelihood end up with nothing.


I think it's the spaghetti offense. Throw everything you got on the wall and see what sticks.


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I think it's the spaghetti offense. Throw everything you got on the wall and see what sticks.


My mom was in a bad auto accident once. With fatalities. She was hurt - bad. It was not the fault of the person driving the car that she was in.
Later she said something about 'the lawsuit", and who was involved. The driver of her car was being sued. I asked why, if it wasn't his fault. She said, "I don't know who's fault it was. I know it was not MY fault. We sue everybody. We're gonna let the judge sort it all out."


----------



## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

true uber bastid. your best friend will sue you to if he or she is really hurt bad. and let the lawyers and judges fight in out. now x BFF


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

bobby747 said:


> true uber bastid. your best friend will sue you to if he or she is really hurt bad. and let the lawyers and judges fight in out. now x BFF


Given that our legal system is for crap with these kinds of things, unfortunately this is how it has to be sometimes. I purposely have a 2 million dollar umbrella policy so that if my car, house or me are involved in a law suit, my insurance company either has to fight like hell on my behalf or write a check for up to two mil. Costs me $200 a year and then I don't worry about most things. I would understand if a friend sued me in those circumstances, there really isn't a choice if they need to get their injuries dealt with.


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

bobby747 said:


> true uber bastid. your best friend will sue you to if he or she is really hurt bad. and let the lawyers and judges fight in out. now x BFF


He was ok with it.
And, the judge found him to be 5% 'at fault', so that amount of total damages was assigned to his insurance company. But, 5% of what that determination was would probably ruin most of us on this forum. It was 95% the fault of the driver of the other car, who died at the scene instantly.
Everyone had very good insurance, so it wasn't like anyone was gonna get financially hurt over it.
The pain was in the crash.

Two young men died in that crash.

But, the point is that VERY GOOD INSURANCE was involved in that crash. There was plenty of money to take care of all the casualties, but a law suit was required because that's just the way insurance companies are. 


.


----------

