# Uber Must Succeed



## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

No, I'm not an Uber troll, not an Uber fan, not an Uber employee, none of that. Just an Uber driver and it ends there.

But Uber must exists and succeed to compete with Lyft, a Lyft's superiority in rideshare business would be disastrous for us and our pay as well as for the passengers. A monopoly helps no one but the monopolist. Of course, an Uber's monopoly would have the same disastrous results. They both must exists and compete to have a functioning (couldn't find a better word as any positive lable for rideshare market would be an overstatement) rideshare market.

Unfortunately, Uber is becoming a heavy and demanding giant, lumbering with many bits and slices; subsidiaries, useless segments, business in business, segment and parts which makes it hard to manage and difficult to maneuver, compared to Lyft's "lean and mean" business structure. 

Uber's shareholders want to see profit, in this case; smaller losses. Of course, we the drivers are the first in line to pay for their management mistakes. We are the easy target, But it doesn't have to be the drivers to bleed for their shortcomings.

I'm not claiming to be an expert but it's just common sense for Uber to rethink it's business model and make it more manageable and more profitable without putting the burden on drivers. Spinoff Uber Eats which still is losing money despite $7.9 billion revenue. Sell or separate some other Uber businesses in far far away countries, especially those with a lot of cash involved. Don't burn more money than necessary on illusive AV projects, Again, I ain't an expert and I leave it to the corporate pundits to save Uber from self-destructive expansion and unattainable lofty goals.

It's my personal opinion that Uber's CEO, Dara Khosroshahi isn't fit for the job. He was born with a Silver Spoon in his mouth to a very rich Iranian family and has been riding on the family wealth and connections wave since. I don't believe he ever felt poverty or anything even close to it. He never had to build a business. Almost all major tech companies were created and are mostly still managed by individuals starting at the very bottom and building up from the ground. Dara was given $200 million to accept the job with additional $65 million salary and God knows how many millions in benefits. Again, he didn't build this business, he was given the job to take it to prosperity, how is he doing so far?

I personally, and that's just me, give most of my business to Uber and it's personal as I just don't like Lyft for their condensing messages when you miss a ping, their greed taking big chunks of the revenue and leaving a dry bone for the drivers and other greed-driven treatments of the drivers. And not to forget; for their outrageous $2500 insurance deductible. Each time I turn on their app I remind myself to have $2500 ready so John Zimmer and Logan Green don't suffer any losses!!

Uber is not much better, I have said this before and say it again, they are both evil but Uber is the lesser evil. And maybe it's time for us to tip the scale toward Uber, it must survive.


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## Uberyouber (Jan 16, 2017)

Meehhh...


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Tom Oldman said:


> No, I'm not an Uber troll, not an Uber fan, not an Uber employee, none of that.


Any poster who begins their post with that disclosure is undoubtedly a .....
Well, you know what I'm saying....... :winking:


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## maxroyalty1 (Mar 8, 2017)

I agree


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

Uberyouber said:


> Meehhh...


I was expecting this, knock yourself out.



Uber's Guber said:


> Any poster who begins their post with that disclosure is undoubtedly a .....
> Well, you know what I'm saying....... :winking:


 fire ants, I was expecting this, knock yourself out



maxroyalty1 said:


> I agree


Fire ants, I was expecting this, knock yourself out



maxroyalty1 said:


> I agree


Fire ants, I was expecting this, knock yourself out

I said what I had to say. You guys are all entitled to your opinions. 
But what is missing here is a good argument against what i had to say. 
Cheap shots are just that, cheap...


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

If Uber, Lyft or (hopefully) both were to fold from awful mismanagement and terrible business practices, something would arise to pickup the slack. It wouldn't necessarily be better... but it couldn't be much worse! Better software, more narrow scope, run by adults. The options that popped up in Austin were pretty solid when Uber and Lyft refused to abide by the city law and pulled out. Uber and Lyft can't run out of money or get regulated to death soon enough in my opinion but that's just me.


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## adaleenb5 (Aug 15, 2019)

I actually made it to the third paragraph, not realizing how long the post was going to be, but after realizing it I'd like Cliff notes pls


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

mrpjfresh said:


> If Uber, Lyft or (hopefully) both were to fold from awful mismanagement and terrible business practices, something would arise to pickup the slack. It wouldn't necessarily be better... but it couldn't be much worse! Better software, more narrow scope, run by adults. The options that popped up in Austin were pretty solid when Uber and Lyft refused to abide by the city law and pulled out. Uber and Lyft can't run out of money or get regulated to death soon enough in my opinion but that's just me.


What was the city law in Austin?


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## 911 Guy (Feb 8, 2018)

All ride share companies will collapse into one. It's the only way they can control price.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Tom Oldman said:


> Fire ants, I was expecting this, knock yourself out













Tom Oldman said:


> I said what I had to say. You guys are all entitled to your opinions.













Tom Oldman said:


> But what is missing here is a good argument against what i had to say.













Tom Oldman said:


> Cheap shots are just that, cheap...


Yummy! Let's have another! :smiles:


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

911 Guy said:


> All ride share companies will collapse into one. It's the only way they can control price.


Who controls price? The combined rideshare company? Then they will also control the driver's pay, they will lower it with no other company around to hire drivers! That would be monopoly.

Ok, some fellow forum people are complaining about the long post: here is the short version and the point:

*Both Lyft and Uber must exist and compete. The monopoly, superiority for one or the other is not good for us drivers. *

Why??? Then unfortunately you need to take the time read the entire post. Sorry.


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## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

I hope they both burn. I hope all of the corporate suits suffer in this life and the next. 

I’ve been poor my whole life, everything has always been a struggle, I’ll survive without these greedy evil companies. 

I do hope Lyft suffers more.


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

There is a recent piece on uberlyftdrivers.com that expands upon your call-out of Lyft. It's funny because socially conscious pax who call me with the lyft app (1 ride for every 3 uber rides) are of a mind that Lyft treats drivers better than uber. On a day-to-day basis I've found it is just the opposite. Although "better" is a relative term here. In spot checking how much Lyft takes of my pay compared to Uber, Lyft took 42% while Uber took 36%.

https://uberlyftdrivers.com/2019/08...-here-are-7-reasons-uber-is-the-clear-winner/


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

AvisDeene said:


> I hope they both burn. I hope all of the corporate suits suffer in this life and the next.
> 
> I've been poor my whole life, everything has always been a struggle, I'll survive without these greedy evil companies.
> 
> I do hope Lyft suffers more.


I'm sorry and I do feel the pain, maybe not as severe as you do as I'm a part time driver.
Yes, they are both evil, as the most corporations are.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

In summary the city of Austin passed a law that Uber and Lyft or any rideshare company must have real background checks, The city council basically said, if something happened on a ride, we the city had to at least say we had the drivers screened properly. So Uber and lyft left Austin and about 10 companies popped up ...Ride Austin, Fasten, Fare, GetMe, Instaryde, Wingz, Arcade City, Scoop me. And some others lol..Fasten was fantastic Ride Austin as well. Ride Austin still exists but people are too impatient to wait for a driver like they do with U/L.

Long story short the Texas legislators overthrew the Austin ordinance and made it a statewide law that U/L can do whatever they want. We all got fair wages when they left and drivers were happy for the most part. Now all drivers are miserable like rest of the country.

That about sums it up right @Ziggy ? Just typed this out without relooking at details


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> There is a recent piece on uberlyftdrivers.com that expands upon your call-out of Lyft. It's funny because socially conscious pax who call me with the lyft app (1 ride for every 3 uber rides) are of a mind that Lyft treats drivers better than uber. On a day-to-day basis I've found it is just the opposite. Although "better" is a relative term here. In spot checking how much Lyft takes of my pay compared to Uber, Lyft took 42% while Uber took 36%.
> 
> https://uberlyftdrivers.com/2019/08...-here-are-7-reasons-uber-is-the-clear-winner/


I check both at the end of each working day and Lyft always charges more. I had a couple from LAX to Woodland Hills, CA 26'miles, they paid uber $56 while Lyft quote was over $70. Again, one is not better than other and both Lyft and Uber should always be in competition.



Jay Dean said:


> In summary the city of Austin passed a law that Uber and Lyft or any rideshare company must have real background checks, Ann Kitchen basically said, if something happened on a ride, we the city had to at least say we had the drivers screened properly. So Uber and lyft left Austin and about 10 companies popped up ...Ride Austin, Fasten, Fare, GetMe, Instaryde, Wingz, Arcade City, Scoop me. And some others lol..Fasten was fantastic Ride Austin as well. Ride Austin still exists but people are too impatient to wait for a driver like they do with U/L.
> 
> Long story short the Texas legislators overthrew the Austin ordinance and made it a statewide law that U/L can do whatever they want. We all got fair wages when they left and drivers were happy for the most part. Now all drivers are miserable like rest of the country.
> 
> That about sums it up right @Ziggy ? Just typed this out without relooking at details


Thank You.for taking the time providing the.information on Austin rules and Lone Star state of Texas intervention.


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## Uberyouber (Jan 16, 2017)

Uber's Guber said:


> View attachment 347366
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> View attachment 347368
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THIS IS GENIUS !
You my friend are going places.
At $0.60 per mile..


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## gabesdaddee (Dec 4, 2017)

Tom Oldman said:


> I personally, and that's just me, give most of my business to Uber and it's personal as I just don't like Lyft for their condensing messages when you miss a ping, their greed taking big chunks of the revenue and leaving a dry bone for the drivers and other greed-driven treatments of the drivers. And not to forget; for their outrageous $2500 insurance deductible. Each time I turn on their app I remind myself to have $2500 ready so John Zimmer and Logan Green don't suffer any losses!!
> 
> Uber is not much better, I have said this before and say it again, they are both evil but Uber is the lesser evil. And maybe it's time for us to tip the scale toward Uber, it must survive.


Me too.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

First, I don't think the RS market is going away. Even if Uber and Lyft were to simultaneously tank, someone or something would pick up the business model. Second, It's highly unlikely that either Uber OR Lyft are going anywhere soon. I can see an eventual merger but the likelihood of one of them going out of business altogether is slim IMO.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

The problem is the race to the bottom. Competition is great, until you squeeze the front line too tight, then I believe the gov needs to establish a floor. I'm not a big fan of big gov, but sometimes the weak need to be protected from themselves and the predators that will squeeze them dry.

On the other hand I believe the gov is responsible for the mess of rideshare's existence as a whole. If they'd done a better job with taxi regulations there wouldn't have been as much of a demand for rideshare as there is. But here at least, they put up so many roadblocks for the taxi industry that a lot of people are chomping at the bit to get it, still not legal but they promise next month it will be. And I feel they will screw up rideshare just as badly.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

VanGuy said:


> The problem is the race to the bottom. Competition is great, until you squeeze the front line too tight, then I believe the gov needs to establish a floor. I'm not a big fan of big gov, but sometimes the weak need to be protected from themselves and the predators that will squeeze them dry.
> 
> On the other hand I believe the gov is responsible for the mess of rideshare's existence as a whole. If they'd done a better job with taxi regulations there wouldn't have been as much of a demand for rideshare as there is. But here at least, they put up so many roadblocks for the taxi industry that a lot of people are chomping at the bit to get it, still not legal but they promise next month it will be. And I feel they will screw up rideshare just as badly.


Dear Government,

Now that I have broken all your previous rules and become the hated BIG TAXI, please pass some new rules to stop people from competing with ME.

Sincerely,

Uber/Lyft

Ps. Please don't recognize my employees as employees and don't let unions or bureaucrats get the ability to dictate any part of our operations. Thanks again, Dara and John.


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

Tom Oldman said:


> No, I'm not an Uber troll, not an Uber fan, not an Uber employee, none of that. Just an Uber driver and it ends there.
> 
> But Uber must exists and succeed to compete with Lyft, a Lyft's superiority in rideshare business would be disastrous for us and our pay as well as for the passengers. A monopoly helps no one but the monopolist. Of course, an Uber's monopoly would have the same disastrous results. They both must exists and compete to have a functioning (couldn't find a better word as any positive lable for rideshare market would be an overstatement) rideshare market.
> 
> ...


The market seems to be speaking with today's drop of the stock price nearing an all-time low. As for their business model (greed at all costs), I was just reminded of what an Uber exec had said in 2015 when he was asked how they could increase the take rate (and subsequently lower the driver take)...the answer was "because we can". Well, that attitude is starting to be met with some serious resistance and as regulators in the US and abroad put these two unethical, immoral, and representatives of everything that is wrong with capitalism, these two companies are going to HAVE to do something that actually requires following laws (e.g. minimum wage laws). I don't agree about it must succeeding. Both Lyft and Uber have taken from society more than they have given and they will not stop. Their abilities to deceitfully navigate employee status for its drivers, if they are able to do it what is going to stop other companies from taking on this model. As more and more companies can see that it is possible to skirt laws in the name of greed and exploitation, they will do it....why? "Because they can".


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I don't see a lot of hope here, first off, which company is more evil is a toss up, it depends on what they've done that day. I used to think it was Uber for all of the unethical things they've done but Lyft has been on a roll as of late with PPZ's and the new 30 cent a mile rates for total trip. Both companies have destroyed the ability to charge a fair price for the service, the idea of tipping and much hope for the future of rideshare. There can only be some incremental improvement if a third party enters the fray and is somehow able to help drivers earn more.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Uber and Lyft could go out of business today and there would be five more Rideshare companies tomorrow.


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## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

nouberipo said:


> The market seems to be speaking with today's drop of the stock price nearing an all-time low. As for their business model (greed at all costs), I was just reminded of what an Uber exec had said in 2015 when he was asked how they could increase the take rate (and subsequently lower the driver take)...the answer was "because we can". Well, that attitude is starting to be met with some serious resistance and as regulators in the US and abroad put these two unethical, immoral, and representatives of everything that is wrong with capitalism, these two companies are going to HAVE to do something that actually requires following laws (e.g. minimum wage laws). I don't agree about it must succeeding. Both Lyft and Uber have taken from society more than they have given and they will not stop. Their abilities to deceitfully navigate employee status for its drivers, if they are able to do it what is going to stop other companies from taking on this model. As more and more companies can see that it is possible to skirt laws in the name of greed and exploitation, they will do it....why? "Because they can".


Well said and your argument is solid, especially in regards to the shameless corporation's culture which is fast in taking and slow and reluctant in giving.

You're also correct that both stocks lost ground today. Lyft has now 8 or 9 sexual assault lawsuits against them and Uber is being punished as it may eventually face the same problem.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Jay Dean said:


> Ride Austin still exists but people are too impatient to wait for a driver like they do with U/L.


You're correct that Ride Austin still exists, but it's not much of an existence. Ride Austin even has a web page begging for donations. 
A big problem for Ride Austin is name-recognition; the city of Austin is a mecca for tourists & visitors who come to town with the Uber/Lyft apps already downloaded on their phones.
_"Ride Austin who???" -o:_


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Uber's Guber said:


> You're correct that Ride Austin still exists, but it's not much of an existence. Ride Austin even has a web page begging for donations.
> A big problem for Ride Austin is name-recognition; the city of Austin is a mecca for tourists & visitors who come to town with the Uber/Lyft apps already downloaded on their phones.
> _"Ride Austin who???" -o:_


Yup even I don't use ride Austin as a pax just because I have limited time to go out and don't want to wait around for a driver. I tip well so it makes up for the lack they get from either U or L


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## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


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i'll take a shot


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## tomabq (Jan 14, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I don't see a lot of hope here, first off, which company is more evil is a toss up, it depends on what they've done that day. I used to think it was Uber for all of the unethical things they've done but Lyft has been on a roll as of late with PPZ's and the new 30 cent a mile rates for total trip. Both companies have destroyed the ability to charge a fair price for the service, the idea of tipping and much hope for the future of rideshare. There can only be some incremental improvement if a third party enters the fray and is somehow able to help drivers earn more.


And you still drive for Lyft? It hasn't hit Albuquerque yet but as soon as it does I'm shutting Lyft off! How the heck does someone get paid $19 for taking a pax 52 miles, screw these bastards! Drivers are fools to drive for Lyft, if you don't shut your app off Uber will follow up with the same bs!


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

tomabq said:


> And you still drive for Lyft? It hasn't hit Albuquerque yet but as soon as it does I'm shutting Lyft off! How the heck does someone get paid $19 for taking a pax 52 miles, screw these bastards! Drivers are fools to drive for Lyft, if you don't shut your app off Uber will follow up with the same bs!


Nope, no way I'm driving at those rates. I've done 3 Lyft rides since they cut the rates. 2 were PPZ riders that they lost money on, the third was too long a distance (so they would have made money ) so I explained to pax that I was canceling and why. I have also left my app on and allowed roughly 300 pings to go unaccepted, trying to get others on Facebook to do the same. The hope is to seriously degrade their service. It's war and I'm doing my best to injure them.


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## tomabq (Jan 14, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Nope, no way I'm driving at those rates. I've done 3 Lyft rides since they cut the rates. 2 were PPZ riders that they lost money on, the third was too long a distance (so they would have made money ) so I explained to pax that I was canceling and why. I have also left my app on and allowed roughly 300 pings to go unaccepted, trying to get others on Facebook to do the same. The hope is to seriously degrade their service. It's war and I'm doing my best to injure them.


Awesome! How in the world can they keep spreading this nation wide. There must be way too many drivers still drinking the Kool Aid! If drivers don't revolt Uber will be right behind! Keep on keeping on!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Uber's Guber said:


> View attachment 347366
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> View attachment 347368
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Got one Just like that Close by !

Try Barenjaeger too.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Tom Oldman said:


> No, I'm not an Uber troll, not an Uber fan, not an Uber employee, none of that. Just an Uber driver and it ends there.
> 
> But Uber must exists and succeed to compete with Lyft, a Lyft's superiority in rideshare business would be disastrous for us and our pay as well as for the passengers. A monopoly helps no one but the monopolist. Of course, an Uber's monopoly would have the same disastrous results. They both must exists and compete to have a functioning (couldn't find a better word as any positive lable for rideshare market would be an overstatement) rideshare market.
> 
> ...


Why must Uber or lyft exist for rideshare to exist? I honestly think for driver pay to rise both have to die.

No one can compete with businesses willing the lose billions for years.

Also Dara is a tried and proven CEO, that's why they paid him all that money. He could have stayed where he was and still made hundreds of millions.


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## Sid hartha (Jun 15, 2019)

Lol at least in SF bay area I see Lyft gaining market share while paying drivers less. 

Uber's sales/marketing plan isnt working

1. Revenues slightly decreased from q1 to q2 2019. For one I see Uber pool vs Lyft pool is not working. Making these low revenue/high expectation pax walk a few blocks for uber pool is making them turn to lyft shared who set the pickup on demand.

2. Focus seems to be turning to following Lyft's lead in lowering costs
- lowering driver rates
- allowing their CFO publically state that they are 'reducing costs by taking away mylar balloons for employee birthdays to save 200k' while losing 1.3 billion operating costs in 3 months from apr-Jun 2019. Uber is losing 600k per hour; making a decision on the balloons probably took a few weeks to make. 

And if you think Uber is too big to fail - anyone remember Webvan, the grocery delivery web service? I still have some of their plastic crates. They were also too big to fail but their losses became too big to stomach and couldn't get more money from investors during the 2001 internet crash. 

The test for both uber and Lyft will be who will come out on top and survive after the coming recession.


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

This is resembling two party politics. Good cop bad cop.

Lyft was the good guy for a bit, now Uber is the good guy.

Bottom line? 60 cents a mile is obscene. Driving without a surge now is really unprofitable.

Both platforms have gone from people okay with making hundreds of millions of dollars to wanting to be billion dollar corporations. All while doing it with other people's vehicles and fuel. They've gone from "technology companies" to cab companies and built billion dollar companies while escaping their tax burden as employers every step of the way.

Sue them. Sue both of them. They'll get away with murder until we stop letting them. 

Make them afraid to deactivate you because their unemployment insurance will go up. Make them pay into your retirement. Make them act like any other corporation out there making billions of dollars. Make them treat you with dignity. Make them give you a vehicle. Make them pay you overtime. Make them pay you back for making them filthy rich.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

nonononodrivethru said:


> Bottom line? 60 cents a mile is obscene. Driving without a surge now is really unprofitable.


The reality is that 60c a mile is going to go away, the lower rates are coming...

Orlando hasn't been over 55c per mile for a long time.

So take "really unprofitable" and.... drag it through the mud.

What's worse than "Really unprofitable?"

"Scam"

It's rapidly hitting "total scam"


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

Even a monopoly can't continue if they keep bleeding money and need a tourniquet.


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## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> The reality is that 60c a mile is going to go away, the lower rates are coming...
> 
> Orlando hasn't been over 55c per mile for a long time.
> 
> ...


Not to justify the greed of these companies, but anyone who works for these new rates deserve the suffering they get. They will either learn soon enough or they'll go homeless.


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## Uber1111uber (Oct 21, 2017)

Uber isnt the good guy at all. Just not as bad as lyft right now. It's like being slapped in the face or kicked in the balls. They both suck but getting slapped in the face is better then a roundhouse to the balls.


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