# UberCHINA Updates



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber CEO Enjoying a Fast China Ride
http://www.chinafile.com/reporting-...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

This thread is a continuation of UberCHINA Updates posted in:
*Leaked letter from Uber's biggest competitor in China*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Phantom rides leave Uber drivers in a quandary*
*http://www.chinadailyasia.com/business/2015-07/25/content_15295252.html*

_Earlier this month, several media reports estimated that phantom trips account for 30 to 40 percent of Uber's 1 million daily bookings in China._


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*China imposes harsh fines on Uber-like services*
*http://www.zdnet.com/article/china-imposes-harsh-fines-on-uber-alike-services/#ftag=RSSbaffb68*


----------



## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

math puzzle...

USA has 320 million people 
China has 1.3 billion people

in USA, Uber is currently facing 153,289 lawsuits

in China, Uber can expect ____ lawsuits


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

riChElwAy said:


> math puzzle...
> 
> USA has 320 million people
> China has 1.3 billion people
> ...


Maybe, maybe not.

The US is a democracy, Uber can get away with a lot of things here.

China is an autocracy. If Uber pisses off the wrong people there or the taxi drivers start to revolt like the French did, the government will step in.

It is in Chinas best interests to keep the masses fed and peaceful. Uber will not benefit Chinese leaders in any way. So they have zero reason to support Uber.

It doesn't matter that Uber is trying to portray itself as a Chinese company, it is not, it is an American company.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Jean Liu of China's Didi Kuaidi on Uber's 'Short-Term Strategy,' $2 Billion Funding and More! *
*http://recode.net/2015/07/27/jean-l...s-short-term-strategy-2b-funding-and-more-qa/*

_*You seem to be covering the transportation map, but you raised a lot of money, presumably to beat back aggressive efforts from Uber. What do you think of them?*

We welcome all fair competition in the interest of sportsmanship. But we have been through a lot of knife fights to get to our dominant market position. When you have scale, you have operational efficiency, much more frequent orders, so no one is capable of doing what we do now. No one knows the Chinese people better, and our local knowledge is impossible to replicate.

I think Uber has a short-term strategy to subsidize heavily to get drivers and passengers. It's not fair for me to comment whether they can or can't do it that way, but we are very, very focused on our job.

But, if I were them, I would think very carefully. It is a highly competitive market. It's already a healthy ecosystem. We have five million car owners; we do insurance, car sales._


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber faces mounting roadblocks in Asia*
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-the-download-uber-in-asia-20150728-story.html


----------



## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

riChElwAy said:


> math puzzle...
> 
> USA has 320 million people
> China has 1.3 billion people
> ...


Where do you get your figures on the lawsuits? Seems like an awfully large number.


----------



## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

This is an excellent thread. Thanks ch1cabby for the research work.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Will Uber even want to stay in china?

Chinese tocks have been way up and way down.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/27/investing/china-stock-market/


----------



## berserk42 (Apr 24, 2015)

I'm sure drivers here would LOVE working for Didi Kuaidi. You get requests that you CAN'T deny. I assume there must be a way to cancel still? I don't know. But Didi Kuaidi was far cheaper than Uber (thanks to more frequent promotions and discount codes). The best thing that Uber has going for it in China is People's Uber, but that is heavily subsidized and technically not-for-profit.

"Well, there is this chauffeur service. People in China like to drink a lot, but the laws against drunk driving are very strict. So, if you cannot drive home, you call someone who meets you at your car and drives you home."
That's an understatement. Drive to DUI checkpoint. Open mouth. Cop inserts breathalyzer. Blow. Cop reads result then waves you on or detains you. More efficient than DUI checkpoints in USA, that's for sure. A bit nerve wracking, it seems, though.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber, Didi crackdown imminent in Shanghai and Beijing*
*http://online.thatsmags.com/post/uber-didi-crackdown-imminent-in-shanghai-and-beijing*


----------



## berserk42 (Apr 24, 2015)

Well, if it's the same way they crackdown on traffic violations, it will be a complete joke.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Didi Kuaidi Goes on Uber Offensive*
*http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-42858*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber Rival Didi Kuaidi to Get Backing From State-Owned China Investment Corp.*
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...TR4wOoBBb4CNf3jEg&sig2=8qU3TbcIHJrCn0GevCDSCw


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Jean Liu Reveals How Didi Kuaidi Is Beating Uber*
*https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...6iAhhkpRyeHXctBGQ&sig2=7k9Lq7IcqfUziPXlkFj0eg*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Police raid Uber's Hong Kong office*
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...346wJR&usg=AFQjCNFTe7BTUwFD-Gq8MLz0sEiEeu7vgg


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber HK office inspected by police, 4 taken away amid crackdown on illegal taxis*
*https://www.hongkongfp.com/2015/08/...-police-following-crackdown-on-illegal-taxis/*

*http://hkm.appledaily.com/detail.ph...75437&category_guid=10829391&category=instant*
*







*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Police raid Uber offices in Hong Kong and arrest 5 drivers*
*http://www.businessinsider.com/police-raid-uber-offices-in-hong-kong-and-arrest-5-drivers-2015-8*

_The drivers lacked the required hire car permits or third party insurance, he said._

_At least three Uber staff were taken away by police, according to Hong Kong's Cable Television_


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Watch out (again) Uber! Didi invests in GrabTaxi as part of a $350 million round*
*https://pando.com/2015/08/20/watch-...und/e492b7163e92605a2b982ea640d6b11d17d7d5b2/*

The international coalition to beat Uber at its own game just got more incestuous. And way more interesting.

As reported previously on Pando, Softbank is essentially bankrolling nearly any major home-turf Asian Uber competitor: The top ones being Didi Kuaidi in China, OlaCabs in India and GrabTaxi in Singapore. But that's not all. Didi is also backed by Chinese mega-corps Alibaba and Tencent&#8230; and Alibaba has also invested in Lyft. Then there's Coatue who has invested in Lyft, Didi, and GrabTaxi.

It's like the opening of Soap. It's an important branch of the coalition of billionaires who didn't invest in Uber (™), that also includes Andreessen Horowitz, Carl Icahn, Japanese powerhouse Rakuten, and Peter Thiel. [Disclosure: Marc Andreessen and Peter Thiel are investors in Pando]

While there are reportedly no active plans to merge, roll up or in any way formally work together&#8230; that's an awful lot of interconnectedness for one big international group all fighting the same aggressive, win-at-all-costs, take-on-all comers foe.

The battle just got a lot more interesting. Didi has invested in GrabTaxi as part of a $350 million round. Not only is it the first time any of these groups have formally worked together that we're aware of, but I'm not sure I've ever seen another private venture-backed company ever use proceeds from its last funding round to invest in a similar private venture backed company in another market.

_What?_

There are so many things to like about this as an observer of this battle-royale, and a consumer who doesn't want a single company-- especially Uber-- to take over all global transportation.

First off: I've argued a few times that China is the one place where none of Uber's normal playbook seems to work, with the exception of paying insanely massive subsidies to get market share. Some familiar with the company say the recent rates that have resulted in such hockey-stick graph growth would lose the company $1 billion on an annual basis if continued. Didi has definitely lost market share as a result, but is still the dominant market leader. They've had to step up subsidies to compete.

But Didi has two advantages Uber simply doesn't have. (Words that are never written about Uber in the US, by the way.) The first is it's the Chinese company of the two. And anyone who thinks the Chinese government is just going to allow Uber to own the transportation grid of its largest cities-- particularly with its ties to the US state department-- is absolutely delusional.

The second advantage Didi has over Uber is-- again words never written in the US-- cash. Even Uber-- a company that has raised some $7 billion at the highest private valuations we're seeing in even inflated times-- can't compete with the pockets of Softbank, Alibaba, and Tencent.

And now, Didi is making that point by _investing _some of its recent $2 billion round in another Uber competitor.

The other thing the deal does is send a clear signal to Uber: It's not only likely all these competitors with shared mega-pocket investors are passing around data and best practices on how to beat you, two of them actually have a formal financial relationship.

Expect more.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

TK in 6 months: "I'd like an order of Moo goo gai pan, pineapple fried rice, and some Peking duck to go".


----------



## cybertec69 (Jul 23, 2014)




----------



## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

*Hey Uber, Welcome To China*
Posted 12 hours ago by Jon Russell (@jonrussell)
http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/23/hey-uber-welcome-to-china/#.lfoxej:FNSP


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Good Read:*

*WeChat blocks Uber. And this is only the beginning.*
*https://pando.com/2015/08/24/wechat...ook/466e7faebd76671984b53c9e7a24a12f6b36ea96/*

Remember when I wrote --repeatedly-- that there was absolutely zero chance Uber could win China?

That mega competitor Didi Kuaidi simply had too much of a lead and the only way Uber could make a dent in it was unsustainable subsidies -- even for a company with $7 billion in capital raised? And that even if Uber chooses to lose $1 billion a year in China in subsidies -- which it has admitted to investors it will -- it still wouldn't have a chance because Didi is backed by three of the biggest Asian corporates Tencent, Alibaba, and Softbank?

Softbank, remember, is also funding Uber rivals in India and Singapore, and Alibaba is also funding Lyft, and hence both have extra financial incentive to see Uber wounded in what will no doubt be the world's largest ride sharing market.

And remember when I said that even if Uber was willing to run off a financial cliff in China, and could somehow become the dominant player, the country itself would never allow Uber to win because China is not going to let a US company with ties to the state department control its major urban transportation grids?

Yeah, guess what...

Back in March, WeChat banned Uber, a significant channel for how Uber communicates with customers. WeChat, the country's dominant messaging app where consumers get deals and coupons from major digital vendors. WeChat, which is owned by Tencent.

Uber's payments provider in China? Alipay, owned by Alibaba. Didi Kuaidi is the result of the merger of the Alibaba-backed and the Tencent-backed ridesharing entrants, and it's worth noting that before these two giants combined forces, they pulled this kind of stuff with each other all the time. Kinda like the fights Twitter and Facebook had over sharing Instagram photos or Google shoving Google+ into all of its products at the expense of other commenting and social platforms. Only, the battle in China has far bigger financial consequences for everyone involved.

Uber addressed the issue yesterday, with SVC for business, Emil Michael, complaining to Bloomberg about Tencent's anti-competitive behavior. Uber's account is one that resonates with American readers coming new to this story: Poor American company blocked by big bad communist China. _Won't someone think of freedom?_

Let's leave aside for a moment the morality of these Chinese companies playing hardball. A child should have been able to see this was going to happen. What has always made Didi's market position just so powerful is who was backing it. Chinese business culture is all about extreme loyalty within a circle and hardball tactics outside of that circle.

Now to the "oh poor American Uber" bit: Let's not pretend for a second that Uber wouldn't have leaned on investors to do the exact same thing if the position were reversed. What Uber is pissed about is that it's been Ubered.

Remember, it was Uber who tried to use its leverage with would-be investors to block its American rival Lyft from raising money here. It was Uber who hired an elaborate army of secret agents to take Lyfts around major cities and use any tactic it could to get the drivers to switch to Uber, while ordering and cancelling Lyft rides to clog up the competitor's system.

An investigation by The Verge detailed the scheme, codenamed "SLOG":

The special ongoing project had a different codename: SLOG. Contractors in New York who responded to the "special ongoing project" message were invited to individual hour-long meetings with Uber marketing managers, who had traveled from Los Angeles and Washington, DC, to New York to oversee the team's creation.

It was there that the company laid out its plan, according to a contractor. With Lyft's arrival in New York imminent, Uber said it was creating a "street team" charged with gathering intelligence about Lyft's launch plans and recruiting their drivers to Uber. Contractors were then handed two Uber-branded iPhones and a series of valid credit card numbers to be used for creating dummy Lyft accounts. Uber assumed every contractor would be caught by Lyft eventually; the second phone, according to a contractor interviewed by _The Verge_, was issued so "you would have a backup phone if and when that happened so you wouldn't have to go back."

A follow-up email outlined the process for recruiting Lyft drivers in detail. It emphasizes the importance of requesting rides from different physical locations so as not to arouse Lyft's suspicions, suggests methods of recruiting, and outlines the process for signing up drivers on Uber's platform.

And if the name Emil Michael -- the exec complaining to Bloomberg about Tencent playing dirty -- sounds familiar, perhaps that's because late last year Michael made international headlines for his proposal to "go after" me and my family in order to silence our reporting on Uber. Comments the company itself later said "showed a lack of humanity."

*Continued...*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Others analysts are saying Uber can combat this, because it's so tenacious and well-funded. Not compared to Didi.

Michael astoundingly told Bloomberg he believes Tencent will back down:

"I think as we continue to succeed, and it's clear we're in this for the long haul-we've got Chinese investors behind us; we've got partnerships with cities; we're spending money in the local economy; local investors have an interest in our success-then we'll get into more of a détente mode."

He can't actually believe that. Even a man who thinks he can get away with threatening a journalist in a room full of journalists isn't that delusional. It's what you say when you are fundraising: And -- wouldn't you know it?-- Michael is currently leading fundraising efforts for Uber China, which is a different entity than Uber itself. Unlike Uber, we've heard that Uber China has had significantly more trouble raising cash, because of its weak market position.

Blocking on WeChat is only act one of the hardball. If this doesn't halt Uber's growth in China, there are still other moves that will. Uber simply will not win in China. Even if the outrageous subsidies got it ahead of Didi and all its backers, the Chinese government itself will go on the attack.

This is not simply nationalism, although obviously there's a lot of that too: Uber has deep ties with the US Department of Defense and also with the State Department. Late last year, Uber hired former CIA Director and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to head its UberMILITARY arm. Also last year, it was reported that Emil Michael -- yep, that guy -- is working as an advisor to the Pentagon's Defence Business Board, having previously worked as a special assistant to the Secretary of Defence. There is no way China will let any American company with ties to American intelligence and military run its urban transportation grid. Frankly, no country should.

And this isn't just a China thing: America wouldn't let a Chinese company with ties to its military and intelligence take over the cab infrastructure in major US cities. And you can imagine if the situation was reversed, Uber would be in Washington painting its own doomsday scenario and putting every lobbying dollar behind thwarting a foreign rival.

Uber has many smart people on its management team-- they knew this was coming. So why is Uber losing $1 billion in a market it can't win? My guess is they needed to show mega growth in anticipation of its last funding round, with added pressure if "leaked" reports are true that the company plans to go public in the next 18 months. They've painted a global growth story to do it. And if you are pinning a $50 billion valuation to global growth, you simply can't ignore China. You have to be in the market somehow and beg, borrow, and steal to show some kind of growth or momentum. To wit: Uber has plastered American media with reports of its surging Chinese market share, not once acknowledging the growth has only come because of wildly unsustainable subsidies.

And also-- as could be cross-stitched and hung somewhere in Uber's war room-- Uber is doing this because Uber can. China will be the world's largest ridesharing country. While capital is effectively free for Uber, it clearly feels it needs to go through the motions to own something in it. Why not? If it loses it'll just cast itself in the "poor American company" role, which could win it some points with US lawmakers and riders. Uber as an underdog? The company hasn't been able to sell that one since it's earliest days going up against "big taxi."

Uber's advantages in the US were first-mover, an ability to control legislation via buying state legislatures or playing a smart grassroots lobbying game, and way more capital than anyone else could raise.

But in China, it's Didi that has all of those advantages. If Uber has a shot, they are going to have to win another way. And the company has never proven it can.


----------



## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

*Uber Offers 109% Returns for Chinese With $500,000 to Spare*
*http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...fer-109-returns-for-rich-chinese-with-500-000*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber's days in China and Hong Kong might be numbered*
*http://www.businessinsider.com/ubers-days-in-china-and-hong-kong-might-be-numbered-2015-8*


----------



## UberPlates (Jun 24, 2015)

berserk42 said:


> Well, if it's the same way they crackdown on traffic violations, it will be a complete joke.


And if it's the way they crack down on drug peddlers, it will be a total blast... don't worry, ********* drivers aren't seen as a threat to national integrity and strength.

I lived in Shanghai 2002-2003. Taxis everywhere back then. But month after month, more private cars (VWs and Audis were big over there). The roads were choking up even back then. And there were very few parking spaces to be had. So a system like Ubers might have appeal.

I say 'like Ubers'. Not Uber. In the 1920s, all the big-wig countries had a slice of China. Because they were weak. Opium Wars, warlords, blah blah blah, It's all recent history to them, like the Japanese in Nanjing. I can tell you that China doesn't consider the USA as being as bad as Japan (I don't think they consider anyone to be as bad as Japan), but Americans were taking wealth out of the country along with Britain, France, Russia, Japan, Germany, you name it. There's also the small matter of the US-Taiwan partnership (the Chinese just loved that).

2015. Now China is strong. I don't think they're going to be very happy with a US-based company (with a CEO that admires Ayd Rand novels) setting up shop in their country, with an app that collects metadata on both drivers and riders and uploads phone address books (and possibly audio and video as well), all the while paying their drivers a paltry wage. There are Chinese companies that can do all that, every bit as well as Uber, if not better, and not send profit overseas in the process.

I figure they'll watch and learn from Uber for a bit, then give their official blessing to a rival app, one under Chinese control. After all, what self-respecting country doesn't want the power to spy on it's own citizens? I know Australia is creeping toward it, bit by bit. These new apps allow that, complete with cameras, microphones, and GPS coordinates. If there's any spying and monitoring to take place on Chinese citizens, it'll be done by the Chinese, thanks very much.

I figure Uber will maybe do okay in Shanghai, Beijing. Guangzhou, Shenzhen, anywhere with a decent international airport nearby, if the right people get paid off. It's the app of choice for the jetsetting Westerners who want to check off the Iron Rooster on their list of travel destinations, and perhaps the expats which live in these cities. But in the lesser-known cities, I'm not so sure Uber is going to win out. And China has a whole lot of 'lesser known cities'.

But it's not all bad news for Uber. There are a lot of rich Chinese companies, and a whole lot rich Chinese individuals. I'm sure a slick fund-raising push will reap big dividends for them, especially as how the Chinese markets are starting get a little shaky. I figure some RMBs in the bank will be a nice consolation prize for Travis & Co.

But hey, what would I know? I mean, I signed up for UberX, bought a vehicle and everything - how smart can I be? (don't answer that last one... I already figured out the answer )

For the record: I actually liked my time in Shanghai, it was a fascinating place: a few tricksters (that's what Shanghai is famous for, throughout the rest of China), but mainly just nice folk trying to get by and not hurt anyone else - a lot like the Americans I met when I travelled 'round the US of A.
.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*It Took a While but Uber Finally Closed Its $1 Billion China Fund*
*http://recode.net/2015/08/27/it-took-a-while-but-uber-finally-closed-its-1-billion-china-fund/*


----------



## rcinatl (Apr 5, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> *Good Read:*
> 
> *WeChat blocks Uber. And this is only the beginning.*
> *https://pando.com/2015/08/24/wechat...ook/466e7faebd76671984b53c9e7a24a12f6b36ea96/*
> ...


chi1cabby,
Going devil's advocate a bit to see if any food for thought gets stirred up.
So Travis says he is going to spend $1B to make Uber the dominant player in China. And as you point out, the deck is stacked so heavily against Uber (or any other non-Chinese entity) that it is not viable for that to happen. So is that $1B going down a rat hole? Maybe not.
Is Travis being dumb like a fox? Maybe his real agenda is to establish Uber as the solid #2 player in the Chinese market.
Given the size of that market, what is the profit potential of having 30% or so of it? Maybe bigger than being the dominant player in the U.S.? Maybe a lot bigger?
Just thinking out loud I guess.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

rcinatl said:


> chi1cabby,
> Going devil's advocate a bit to see if any food for thought gets stirred up.
> So Travis says he is going to spend $1B to make Uber the dominant player in China. And as you point out, the deck is stacked so heavily against Uber (or any other non-Chinese entity) that it is not viable for that to happen. So is that $1B going down a rat hole? Maybe not.
> Is Travis being dumb like a fox? Maybe his real agenda is to establish Uber as the solid #2 player in the Chinese market.
> ...


Or he may use a chunk of that money OUTSIDE China.

If I remember correctly some of the money being raised was 80% Uber 20% Uber China.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...fer-109-returns-for-rich-chinese-with-500-000

Unless, I read this article wrong.


----------



## berserk42 (Apr 24, 2015)

So this is what he's spending that money on? Lol


----------



## UberPlates (Jun 24, 2015)

rcinatl said:


> chi1cabby,
> Going devil's advocate a bit to see if any food for thought gets stirred up.
> So Travis says he is going to spend $1B to make Uber the dominant player in China. And as you point out, the deck is stacked so heavily against Uber (or any other non-Chinese entity) that it is not viable for that to happen. So is that $1B going down a rat hole? Maybe not.
> Is Travis being dumb like a fox? Maybe his real agenda is to establish Uber as the solid #2 player in the Chinese market.
> ...


I'll teach you a teeny bit of Chinese:

上 ( _*shang*_ / shàng ) (English translation: "above")

If a Chinese 'rideshare' company, let's call it 'Shang' (pronounced 'Shung' in Mandarin), came to the USA, and tried to complete against local companies, how do you think it would go? How would it go in Denver? In Salt Lake City? In Phoenix? In Pittsburgh? Reno? Augusta? SanDiego? St. Louis? Tampa? How a small place, Modesto perhaps?

I spent 13 weeks in the States, in back in '96. Saw 28 states (but mainly three). Anyway, what I noticed, from the viewpoint of an Australian, was that Americans are quite nationalistic (not a bad thing, just saying, can't say Australia is quite the same). I saw it with all the American flags outside of so many homes. I saw it with 'The Banner' being played at all your sports events, stock car races, everything. I saw it depicted in 'The Simpsons (homer's 'U.S.A.' chant.). Whether folks in America know it or not, they are quite patriotic. Which is good in the main. Admirable.

I lived in China 2002-2003. Didn't see so much there, mainly Shanghai and surrounds. Hangzhou, Suzhou, Shenzhen. I lived in Chinese homes for a large part of it, not your normal ex-pat existence. Do you know something? Chinese are also quite nationalistic (not a bad thing, just saying, can't say Australia is quite the same). Lots of Chinese flags, lots of national holidays, lots of narratives of Chinese history. Whether folks in China know it or not, they are quite patriotic. Which is good in the main. Admirable.

What I am getting at here is this. What you say _might_ be the case. As I said in my other post here. Uber could play well in the cities that have a lot of ex-pat traffic, lots of foreigners going in and out and all about. But once you travel away from those choice locations, you find very few ex-pats, apart from the occasional English teacher or traveller with a Sino-fetish (I'm generalising, but you get my drift). So it will be a largely domestic market using any 'rideshare' system. And the domestic market may prefer the domestic players.

That's why I rattled off that random list of US cities and towns. Do you think those towns would support the Chinese taxi app coming in? Having spent time living amongst you folk (great people all of them), I very much doubt it. And I kinda have my doubts about Uber in China too. From my viewpoint (Australia), I see similarities the China and the USA, with regard all this stuff. India could be a different scenario entirely though...

However, Uber in China would have it's supporters amongst the educated younger set. Driving for Uber in Shanghai would have additional benefits for the driver aside from any income generated. It gives young Chinese the chance to meet foreigners, in order to practice some English skills with native speakers from time to time. And if they get the right passenger on board, who knows? A job prospect? A romance/relationship? A ticket out of China? That's the _real _bonus.

So what's Uber's bonus? Well, they get to say that their service operates in the major cities of the ever-growing economic powerhouse of Asia. Uber needs to be able to say that, the ability to use their 21st Century taxi service in all corners of the globe is one of it's strengths (I often tell my passengers that). And this in turn doesn't hurt their efforts to bring in new money into the Uber warchest, via Chinese investors, large and small.

Does China care? Probably. But China learns things from every foreign enterprise that sets up shop in the Middle Kingdom. They learn from it, then copy it if they can. They might set up a sucessful Uber rival, a "上 Shàng (an Uber clone with Chinese characteristics )". Then, if Uber gets too powerful, or doesn't pay the right people, or doesn't establish the right 关系 'Guanxi' relationship (Google it), or poses some sort of 'national stability' threat, China will simply smash it big-time. Don't think that they can't. Forget what happened in Paris, the Chinese will do it for real if they want to.

Don't mind me everyone, I wouldn't have the first clue about any of it... 

再见 Zàijiàn!* *

.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

China smashed the British Empire. 
Of course they can smash Uber.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> *Jean Liu of China's Didi Kuaidi on Uber's 'Short-Term Strategy,' $2 Billion Funding and More! *
> *http://recode.net/2015/07/27/jean-l...s-short-term-strategy-2b-funding-and-more-qa/*
> 
> _*You seem to be covering the transportation map, but you raised a lot of money, presumably to beat back aggressive efforts from Uber. What do you think of them?*
> ...


When the competition starts talking about "winning knife fights" maybe it's a good idea to step back and consider if that's a fight you really want to get in.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

UberPlates said:


> I'll teach you a teeny bit of Chinese:
> 
> 上 ( _*shang*_ / shàng ) (English translation: "above")
> 
> ...


Excellent post.


----------



## Lag Monkey (Feb 6, 2015)

Every Chinese student I take prefers uber to Didi. They say people's Uber is cheaper and better cars/service. They were shocked to find prompts in the U.S. App asking rider to protest. In China Uber is very strict with drivers and won't allow anything of sort supposesudly. Long live the great and powerful Uber, down with Didi, down with Lyft down with Cabs! all hail Duke of ballerLand: Travis Kalinick


----------



## UberPlates (Jun 24, 2015)

Lag Monkey said:


> Every Chinese student I take prefers uber to Didi. They say people's Uber is cheaper and better cars/service. They were shocked to find prompts in the U.S. App asking rider to protest. In China Uber is very strict with drivers and won't allow anything of sort supposesudly. Long live the great and powerful Uber, down with Didi, down with Lyft down with Cabs! all hail Duke of ballerLand: Travis Kalinick


Hmm, that's interesting, you might be far more in touch with things than me. I am going off life in Shanghai 12 years ago. Maybe some attitudes have changed. I do know one thing, if the younger set equate Uber with The Aspirational West, then maybe that would be an additional incentive to use it. Yeah, could be.

I stand by all the 'nationalistic' comments though. It was evident there, as it was in the States (not being critical, just commenting, see previous posts here for my thoughts on all that). I think these traits will come into play at some point. It'll only become more apparent as China cements it's position in the 21st Century.

Personally, I wouldn't be looking to Uber as my 'vehicle' for protest. Or my 'template'. Unless the protest is along the lines of "screw everybody else, I'll do exactly what I please, consequences be damned". That's nothing to aspire to... is it? What a time to be a part of the passenger transport industry...

Anyway, maybe a Chinese UberX driver might offer their comment, if they're up for it... love to hear their thoughts. And their earnings... 
.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/28/technology/china-us-startup-funding/


----------



## Lag Monkey (Feb 6, 2015)

Pretty sure this site is blocked in China.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*The truth about Uber in China*
https://pando.com/2015/08/31/truth-about-uber-china/e3edcb7af10dbac9e047a4aece037b60bccbf8a0/

I've spent a good part of my summer digging into Uber's business in China.

There's no more important story for Uber right now: China will absolutely be the largest ride sharing market in the world, with high smartphone penetration, low car ownership, six mega-cities with greater than ten million people and 160 cities with a population of more than 1 million people.

While in China this past June raising capital, Uber CEO Travis Kalanick said Uber was doing 1 million rides a day there, and that China could easily eclipse the US as Uber's largest market by the end of the year.

The fact that Uber is doing so "well" in China despite having only 11% of the market shows why the combative CEO has no choice but to win there&#8230; or at least carve out a respectable market share. Everything he's achieved in the US is peanuts compared to China's potential. And Kalanick has never considered himself a man who deals in peanuts.

But that single vanity number of daily rides has come at an unsustainably high cost. Uber has told investors it will spend more than $1 billion this year in China, mostly in runaway subsidies trying to buy market share. Some Chinese press and analysts have reported that that $1 billion won't even last the year if Uber maintains current subsidies it's been paying. And that's before you consider that Uber plans to expand from 16 to 100 cities in China by next year.

Uber has raised a lot of money by Silicon Valley standards-- $7 billion to date. But even Uber can't continue to subsidize this level of losses. Enter the subsidiary Uber China, which needs money _fast _if this house of cards is going to stay up.

In the last week, Uber China appears to have closed a $1.4 billion round of fundraising which is a wild "oversubscribed" success if you read Business Insider&#8230; and a tough sell that Chinese institutions mostly passed on if you readBloomberg or the Financial Times. Late last week, it became clear why a round that had dragged on for more than two months suddenly became "oversubscribed": Uber itself had ponied up one-third of the round as a show of support for the "viability" of the business.

Uber has now publicly committed at least $1.5 billion to winning China-- a decent chunk of its total fundraising to date. Trying to even gain modest market share in China is the biggest single financial gamble of Uber's life as a company so far, and it may well be Travis Kalanick's Waterloo. Exactly one number looks fantastic when you look at it half a world away: Total rides per day. Dig underneath that and it's an unsustainable mess with an all-but-inevitable shut down by the Chinese government looming at some point.

No scandal has made a dent in Uber's growth in the US, and yet in China little has gone the company's way. Just when it appeared to be driving a wedge in the market, its two biggest competitors merged into a massive goliath called Didi Kuaidi, backed by Softbank, Alibaba, and Tencent.

Thanks to that merger, Uber has found itself fighting&#8230; a company very much like itself. Didi has far deeper pockets, a massive lead with some 78% market share, a greater advantage to bend the local government in its favor, and plays just as much hardball as Uber. A month after the two merged, Uber found itself blocked on Tencent's WeChat: An essential channel for reaching customers in China. Next might be Uber's Chinese payment platform Alipay.

Another Didi backer? The state-owned Beijing Automotive Group. It's just one of several partnerships we've heard about between the government and Didi. The Chinese government not only has a nationalistic and national security incentive to ban Uber, it appears to have a financial incentive too.

As we've been reporting for weeks, in China, Uber is getting Uber'd.

But that's only the beginning. Dig deeper into the Chinese ride sharing market, and you'll find that Uber's problems are even bigger than the ones we've already reported. I've spent weeks trying to get to the bottom of these problems, well reported in the Chinese press and covered by a handful of US financial press with strong Chinese bureaus: Rampant fraud, even less reliable driver background checks, wildly conflicting accounts of fundraising for Uber China, Uber China's lack of any local management or leadership, and the impact that's having on the Uber rider experience in China.

Across a dozen interviews over the last few weeks, I've come up with more questions than answers. But the picture emerging is almost antithetical to the Uber we know in the US.

Say what you will about Uber US, the company is usually tactically brilliant. But in China, Uber is a house of cards that could fall at any point -- if either the private capital markets dry up or the government decides to shut it down. Sources say that senior management is concerned enough that a six-person China committee chaired by Kalanick himself meets three times a week (presumably in "the war room") to navigate the mess.

Uber has played a risky game: Raising money at escalating valuations by showing up-and-to-the-right hockey stick growth, painting a story of all-but-certain global domination. But it's becoming clear that Uber simply can't win the world's largest ridesharing market, despite already committing more than one seventh of all the funding it has ever raised to chasing it.

"[It] would be great if they could crack China, but I would be shocked if their best days are not already behind them between the regulatory and competitive environment," said Bill Bishop, a well known investor, writer, and expat who up until a few weeks ago had lived in China for nearly twenty years. He was one of many I've asked in recent weeks if things on the ground looked as bad for Uber as I was hearing from other sources, some of which are connected to Uber's local and international competition.

Bishop confirmed an even worse picture than I'd imagined. A sad repeat of how most Valley companies try (and fail) to win China:

They appear to have pulled out all the stops to pump up the numbers. Crazy subsidies. Blind eye to driver fraud. Was great for a few months, good service, really solved a problem, but something changed around late July and, by the time I left, driver and service quality had fallen off a cliff. They do fill a need but they are competing against a local monster backed by 'baba and Tencent. Baidu is not nearly as strong a partner as they would like people to think, and the Uber China management team is not nearly as local as they would like you to think. And American-born Chinese do not count as anything like local in China.

Not-so-coincidentally, late July was when Uber was raising its latest $1 billion funding round, at a reported $50 billion valuation, and the only metric that mattered out of China was showing daily ride growth. It was a handy top line vanity number that spread like wildfire throughout US media along with the narrative that Uber was "crushing it" in China.

This is a narrative the Valley desperately wants to believe, as Asian tech giants are becoming bigger players-- and threats-- on the international technology stage. How Uber achieved this brag-worthy single metric was-- by the most charitable accounts-- by offering wildly unsustainable subsidies to grab market share. By less charitable accounts, it was on the back of as much as 40% driver fraud to which the company turned a temporary blind eye.

China is the closest Uber has ever come to an existential threat, and the only place it's ever faced real competition.

Let's unpack some of the deeper, conflicting, and less-reported issues Uber is facing there.

*Continues next post...*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*FINANCING*

Uber is one of the most well-funded private companies in Valley history. But even for Uber, spending $1 billion a year to buy a market clearly isn't sustainable. So it's crucial that it raise even more money.

Uber has separated its Chinese business into a subsidiary called "Uber China"-- not totally uncommon for US companies looking to do business in China, but arguably also a handy way to contain this escalating mess from destroying Uber global's balance sheet and cap table.

This summer, Uber global just raised another $1 billion in capital at even higher valuations, while Uber China seemed to be struggling to raise $1 billion necessary to keep buying its daily ride growth.

From The Financial Times:

Is investing in Uber - the ride-sharing app, which has had two of its managers arrested, drivers' cars torched and equity valued at 125 times trailing revenues - just a little too tame? Welcome to Uber China.

That probably is not the pitch that Uber and its bankers at Goldman Sachs are employing. But the fundraising for Uber's China subsidiary (rumoured to be $1bn, although Uber has not confirmed the size), has been going on for a longer-than-expected two months. It is not for the faint of heart.

Uber, which has a valuation of $50bn, is going all guns blazing into the world's most populous market and it needs more ammunition. It is already spending more than $1bn a year in China in an effort to recruit drivers and customers. It has claimed early success, with a fast-growing presence in 11 cities and more than 1m trips a day - although even Uber acknowledges that some of those are fraudulent.

Last week, wildly conflicting press reports starting coming out about this round.

As descriptions like the one above in The Financial Times started to make the two-month old unclosed round look like a shopped house still sitting on the market, a puzzling story in Reuters reportedthat "sources" confirmed Uber China's $1 billion was already closed. In the opening graphs, the article cited two strong Chinese financial companies as major parts of the round: Ping An Group's investment arm and Hillhouse Capital, which also invested in Uber global.

A whole forty-eight hours later Reuters had to update the story with a spokesperson from Ping An flat denying it was investing in Uber China and a source close to Hillhouse denying it was taking part either. Both Ping An and Hillhouse are investors in Didi, Uber's competitor in China.

Had the Reuters reporter been following the story of this fundraising in China, they would have known that already. The exact same rumors went around in the Chinese media more than a month ago, and a Ping An spokesperson denied it then too.

There were reports of at least one other institution in Uber China's round, Citic-CP Asset Management. But the group appeared to be peddling the investment to wealthy Chinese individuals, according to a term sheet obtained by the Financial Times and Bloomberg, rather than investing themselves. In the FT, Uber said it had not authorized selling the stock to individuals, rather it was targeting institutions. From the FT: "It will have to emerge from this with a big list of them to fuel the quest for China domination. Some have already demurred."

Bloomberg -- which has covered the story of Uber China more consistently than nearly any other US outlet-- confirmed the FT's account with a story about that same private placement for wealthy Chinese, only Bloomberg's account made it sound tactical on Uber's part, not unauthorized.

The sales pitch was bullish: Offering a 109% return for wealthy Chinese to invest in Uber China-- a "company" that planned to go public on the Hong Kong or mainland Chinese exchange in five years. To sweeten the pot, the deal would also give investors shares in Uber global. From Bloomberg:

"Dangling estimated returns of as high as 109 percent, the "Project U" offer would put at least 80 percent of the money into shares of closely held Uber before an expected initial public offering in 1 1/2 to 2 years, while the remainder would go into stakes of the company's separate China arm, according to the document."

There was no mention that such an offer to individuals was unauthorized. Indeed, if part of the deal was bonus shares in Uber, presumably it couldn't have been.

Bloomberg included this caveat for investors too:

"And if Uber China doesn't list, investors would be able to sell their shares back for cash, plus compounded interest, or convert their holdings into stakes in Uber's global company, according to the document."

Doesn't exactly read like a hot deal.

Indeed, Pando spoke with at least one individual who had the opportunity to invest, and passed, even with such incentives. Why? This person's sources in the Chinese investor market said as much as 40% of Uber's reported rides are fraudulent, and the competitive and regulatory dynamics are just too tough for the company to succeed. Uber has said that number is much lower, around 10%. But whether true or not, it was the word on the street and enough to convince this person to pass.

And then, finally, at the end of the week we got this from Bloombergabout Uber's "oversubscribed" round in China: News that Uber itself was investing some $300 million to $500 million "as a show of confidence in the viability of the unit."

It's amazing how taking one-third of a round yourself suddenly makes it oversubscribed after two months of unsuccessful fundraising.

The _only_ other institutions the article listed were that same group doing the private placement and existing Uber investor Baidu. It's no wonder the same "rumors" about Ping An and Hillhouse keep getting floated by anonymous sources.

Uber appears to be doing what Uber does well: Confuse the hell out of everyone about what is actually going on here.

But by Uber's own comment in these various articles it initially was targeting only institutions, not individuals. Two months later the biggest institutional investor appears to be Uber itself, with Baidu second and a private placement _arranged by _an institution as the only other one ever even rumored that wasn't flatly denied.

Let's be clear what Uber was really pitching here: Invest in a "company" that has no CEO, is losing at least $1 billion a year, is blocked by WeChat with a risk to be blocked by Alipay, and has barely cracked 10% market share. At the still-heady valuation of $7 billion, it's not a mystery why the round had to later be reconstructed to target wealthy individuals, shares in Uber global, and other guarantees in case Uber China never goes public.

*Continues next post:*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*NATIONAL SECURITY*

Those are the financial risks, before you consider the geopolitical ramifications. Famously libertarian Uber has morphed from an organization that disdained all government bodies to one that wants to harness big government to its advantage. From a place that mistrusted all politicians and statesmen to one that employs them.

Uber has used its app to encourage political action, whether it's adding an anti-de Blasio tab to its app in New York or warning its drivers to stay away from political protests in China (at least those in support of Didi Kuaidi.) Uber has become a political tool as much as a transportation tool, and one run by former senior members of American defense and intelligence.

More troubling: Uber has shown in the US, that it's willing to cross all sorts of lines of what's appropriate in mining user data, prompting Senator Al Franken - chairman of the subcommittee on Privacy, Technology, and the Law - to formally demand an explanation from the company.

In fact, the leader in Uber China's fundraising is Emil Michael-- who you may remember from the time BuzzFeed reported that he'd threatened to "go after" my familyin retaliation for Pando's reporting. But more relevant is that Michael was previously special assistant to former Secretary of Defense (and former CIA head) Robert Gates. The very same Robert Gates who now works for... Uber, chairing the advisory board of a division called Uber Military.

Concerns about the financials aside, can you imagine American retail investors lining up to fund a Chinese company that was going to take over the transportation grids of our largest US cities, with a history of abusing user data and organizing political rallies, run by former top members of the Chinese defense and intelligence agencies? Can you imagine the US government being OK with that? That's exactly the pitch Michael has been making to Chinese institutions and wealthy Chinese all summer long.

The Chinese government was worried about people being able to Google "Tiananmen Square." Hell, just last week Baidu blocked certain search results about China's stock market crash, lest it inflame political tensions. Does anyone believe the Chinese government is going to allow an American company whose senior figures include the former head of the CIA to take over urban transportation and create a network of potential protesters? Especially given the uncertain backdrop of the Chinese economy right now? Especially when there is a local alternative that already has some 80% market share, is backed by two Chinese companies clearly willing to cooperate with the government, and at least one state-owned body itself?

The fact that Uber has chosen Michael -- a former defense department employee who still works as an advisor to the Pentagon -- to lead this effort boggles the mind as much as Uber's refusal to fire him after his threats against journalists made international news. It shows either the same lack of respect or lack of understanding for what it means to do business in China that has tripped up so many US Internet companies before Uber.

No wonder this round had to be passed from institutions to individuals, include such obvious sweeteners, and still took another half a billion from Uber to close. Meantime, Didi has just closed $2 billion and is reportedly looking to raise more. As a show of just how much cash it has, Didi _itself _invested in a fellow Uber competitor, Singapore-based GrabTaxi, last month.

*FRAUD*

Let's look at where all that capital would go: Subsidies. It's Uber's only choice if it wants to compete with the entrenched Didi is to offer huge subsidies for riders and drivers. It's the only thing that has helped Uber and hurt Didi. And it's a playbook Uber knows. This is how Uber has grown and hobbled competition in the US, but it's never done subsidies at this kind of scale. And it's never done them from a position of weakness in the market.

In the US, Uber has used subsidies to bleed out competitors who simply can't match Uber's financial health or fundraising ability. In China, it's the opposite. It's a desperation play to gain market share against a competitor with even deeper pockets.

Still, in China, the result for Uber has been a dramatic growth in rides. So much so that Kalanick says it could be the largest market for Uber by year end. But the problem, according to sources, is Uber is only judging its city managers on that single metric.

And that's given rise to an absolute breeding ground of driver fraud. Said analyst Zhang Xu toBloomberg: "[Uber's number of rides] is definitely exaggerated. It is well known that Uber has the problem of false bookings."

Throughout Chinese media-- and the Bloomberg article above-- there are reports of drivers hacking the system to get extra subsidies without driving anyone anyplace at all. For a while, Uber would match drivers and riders based on proximity. So, Pando is told, gaming the system was as simple as requesting a ride with one phone, accepting it with the other, and driving around to record fares. More sophisticated schemes advertised on Taobao involve software that hacks a phone's GPS such that driving around isn't even necessary.

In recent weeks, I'm told that Uber has made some effort to combat the fraud, for instance, changing the algorithm so that it doesn't immediately match the closest rider with closest driver. But because the fraud was so rampant, sources tell me this has created a user experience mess. Fake riders request a ride, a real driver picks it up, and it gets cancelled immediately when the driver trying to game the system doesn't get his own ride as expected. It's hard to know whether that experience is widespread or just anecdotal.

More disturbing is a different kind of fraud: Buying and selling Uber driver accounts online. Like most countries where Uber operates (including the US) there are disturbing accounts of weak background checks at Uber, and last week we saw the first reported account of sexual assault by a driver out of Uber China.

For months the Chinese media has detailed just how easy getting an Uber driver account is-- you pretty much need a license, an email address, and a computer to watch a 17 minute training video. But even the most solid background checks are meaningless if thousands of driver accounts are being bought and sold for a dollar each on Taobao.

Absolutely no one is denying that the subsidies have encouraged substantial fraud. Uber has told Bloomberg this fraud is around 10% and it plans to get that down to a "sustainable" less than 1% "in short order," but various Chinese media reports peg it closer to 30%-40%.

The closest an outsider can get to witnessing some of the scale is to search for "Uber account" and "Uber simulation" on Taobao and look at the number of listings and sales in the past 30 days. There are hundreds of listings, with some having completed thousands of transactions over a month's time. The listings include driver accounts, manuals to teach fraud, GPS simulation software, and pre-programmed phones to simulate rides. The Chinese press has detailed all of these techniques and just how easy and widespread these transactions are.

Does that all add up to 10% of activity or something greater? With a reported million rides a day, only Uber knows for sure. But it's clear there's a very open and easy-to-navigate black market which makes US drivers' attempts to turn off phones to provoke surge pricing seem cute by comparison. The company has not detailed how it plans to decrease fraud to less than 1% "in short order."

Only Uber knows how much of that $1 billion is actually acquiring legit drivers and riders and how much is simply being siphoned off in exchange for giving Uber management its vanity number. Either works in Uber's interest, but the latter arguably only works in Uber's short term interest.

It's one thing to spend $1 billion in venture capital buying growth. It's another thing to spend $1 billion and have a huge chunk of that get lost to fraud.

*Continues post below:*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*MANAGEMENT VOID*

Astoundingly, Uber China -- a company that has reportedly just closed a $1.4 billion round at a $7 billion valuation with a promise to go public in five years-- has no CEO. Individual city heads are reporting to Travis Kalanick, according to our sources.

This is similar to what was revealedabout Uber Delhi, after a woman was allegedly sexually assaulted by an Uber driver late last year. The Uber Delhi team was just a handful of workers operating out of hotel rooms.

Uber appears to take a "lean" approach to operations globally so it can focus its spending on subsidies.

* * * *

One thing is certain: Uber China bears little resemblance to Uber, aside from a logo. Uber may not always be the most ethically appealing business, but it's a brilliant one, as all of its cleverly leaked documents' soaring top line revenues and skyrocketing valuations have shown.

Consider:

Uber global spends heavily to grab market share, but in the US it doesn't do so recklessly. It has a dominant market position, a huge trove of investor cash, and a seeming ability to raise more at the snap of its fingers.

Uber China is the market underdog with an upside-down business model. It has spent unsustainably to grab 11% market share in 16 cities and says it's expanding to 100 next year. Even with the reportedly-closed $1.4 billion round, this spending can't continue indefinitely. And given the cold shoulder institutions already gave Uber China, it's hard to know how much capital is out there for round two.

Uber global has one of the most brutally pugnacious and effective CEOs the startup world has seen in Travis Kalanick.

Uber China has no CEO.

Uber global is strengthened by its close ties to the government and ability to mobilize its drivers as a grassroots political force.

Uber China is weakened by its lack of inroads with the Chinese government, which doesn't smile on grassroots agitation with foreign backers.

Uber global has major Chinese financial institutions behind it.

Uber China is trying to raise funds from wealthy Chinese individuals, using financial institutions as a conduit.

Uber has been plagued with issues around its background checks, but maintains it's safer than taxis.

Uber China is populated with an unknown number of drivers buying accounts for $1 on Taobao.

Uber global's investor Chris Sacca mocked Carl Icahn for investing in Lyft, saying he didn't believe there'd even be a second player of any meaningful size in the US.

Uber China better hope potential investors don't listen to the logic of Chris Sacca.

Fortunately for Uber China, the separation between the two entities is hopelessly muddied-- even by the reported terms of their own fundraising. Some number of investors will see this as the "bargain Uber" or a way to get into Uber global. Emil Michael appears to have pulled this fundraising off, even if it took Uber itself "leading" the round. Uber China may still find a brilliant CEO. It may be able to buy itself a few more market share points. It may even be able to hold onto some meaningful minority position once it eases back on subsidies and combats fraud to save its user experience. And that may be enough to make this gamble worthwhile, given the size of the Chinese market. But Uber China will never be anything like Uber in the US.

And that means that Uber-- the giant of Silicon Valley, the dominant player in the on-demand economy that has spawned so many other copycats, the company considered the "Facebook" of the iPhone era-- may not be destined to become the largest ridesharing company in the world, a role all but considered its birthright until this fight. That stark reality puts into perspective just how sophisticated the Chinese startup market has become. It's not only a harsh pill for Uber to swallow-- but for all of Silicon Valley.

It's only when you look at it through this lens that you start to understand why Uber is taking on such an expensive and ultimately doomed battle. It has to try, and right now, capital is cheap enough that it can.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Godpoundingly brilliant and shocking article. 40% driver fraud? 
Sounds like TK put all his recent eggs in one basket, dropped the basket, then brought it to market anyways.
"Get yer eggs here, 100% UNBROKEN eggs, non FRAUDULENT eggs..."


----------



## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Godpoundingly brilliant and shocking article. 40% driver fraud?
> Sounds like TK put all his recent eggs in one basket, dropped the basket, then brought it to market anyways.
> "Get yer eggs here, 100% UNBROKEN eggs, non FRAUDULENT eggs..."


Uber also reports inaccurate driver trip numbers in China. Take the fraud numbers out, driver trip amounts are low compared to what Uber is reporting.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Txchick said:


> Uber also reports inaccurate driver trip numbers in China. Take the fraud numbers out, driver trip amounts are low compared to what Uber is reporting.


Exactly. 
So accounting for driver generated fraud and uber generated bullshit, I'm guessing actual number of rides are roughly 60% lower than UberReported.
This IS the biggest developing story of the coming quarter, even tho domestic issues are closer to heart.


----------



## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Exactly.
> So accounting for driver generated fraud and uber generated bullshit, I'm guessing actual number of rides are roughly 60% lower than UberReported.
> This IS the biggest developing story of the coming quarter, even tho domestic issues are closer to heart.


That was a well written researched article. Who would invest in those rickety numbers?? Not me!


----------



## UberPlates (Jun 24, 2015)

Hats off to Sarah Lacy! That was a fantastic article... I don't know if I've read Pando before, but maybe I should start. This piece was so darn good it should be submitted to a business journal someplace. It's so good to read an article on Uber that really goes in-depth on it all. I can't say that any Australian journalist has gone to the trouble of doing the same (no offence to any Aussie journo reading this... but it's true).

It makes my previous musings in this thread seem amateurish (which they are), although I think a lot of my observations coincide with what's in here... and now I know who Sarah Lacy is. I never looked into all the 'Uber intimidates journalist' thing. Hmm... anyway, I hope that she returns to the topic when she's able. I've just learnt stacks of interesting facts from this article. I wonder what Sarah would make of Uber in Australia? I guess every market is different...

I don't actually have a stake in the whole 'Uber in China' thing. I haven't lived there in over 10 years, and that was only for 16 months. But I guess everyone who drives for Uber should be paying close attention to what transpires in the larger markets that Uber operate in. I'll say this, too many people underestimate China.

This was already an interesting thread chi1cabby, but your triple-post was a real find, well done. I hope folk on UberPeople.Net drop by the News section, take a look. Uber in China might seem irrelevant to some, or 'big picture' stuff, but I think on closer inspection, there are things we _all _can learn from it...

Terrific article Sarah! 

.....


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

ying just posted this on my profile: 
_"If you are an UberX or Uber Blk driver in the USA and has see your check plummet recently and need bump in good $$$. email me: ying (at) keemail.me . I will show you how, china style. works 100%!"
_
Hi ying, welcome to the forum!
Please tell us more about how to make more money driving for Uber using your "China Style" method.
Thanx!


----------



## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> ying just posted this on my profile:
> _"If you are an UberX or Uber Blk driver in the USA and has see your check plummet recently and need bump in good $$$. email me: ying (at) keemail.me . I will show you how, china style. works 100%!"
> _
> Hi ying, welcome to the forum!
> ...


Dallas market Uber black & SUV drivers checks have plummeted due to Uber X, XL, Select being allowed to pick up at DFW & Love field. They use to get rides in 2 hours now it takes 6 hours at DFW airport.


----------



## UberPlates (Jun 24, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> Please tell us more about how to make more money driving for Uber using your "China Style" method.


I wonder if it's the 'Taobao' method... 

...


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber wanted 40% of China's biggest taxi app so it issued an ultimatum*


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Every prayer and prediction I make for the demise of Uber backfires.

Therefore, I wish and predict UberChina unfettered success.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Inside Uber's Fight With Its Chinese Nemesis, Didi Kuaidi*
*https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...b0NCRI&usg=AFQjCNF8sxqWefoiGJp-Ic_o4IWdzyZG4w*


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> *Inside Uber's Fight With Its Chinese Nemesis, Didi Kuaidi*
> *https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...b0NCRI&usg=AFQjCNF8sxqWefoiGJp-Ic_o4IWdzyZG4w*


Brushing. 
Brilliant! 
Never underestimate the power of the human mind to devise new scams.


----------



## glados (May 23, 2015)

On one hand, China is Uber's hardest market. The issues with the entrenched competition is unrivaled, but China's regulatory environment is an even more difficult challenge.

On the other hand, Uber is a company known for surpassing expectations. I don't know if they will be able to win China -- but I wouldn't bet against it.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

"Brushing" explained:
http://www.wsj.com/video/scams-in-c...ers/EAC917EF-C3A2-4461-A19C-97D4ED81D8F4.html


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber's Chinese Rival Didi Kuaidi Quietly Backs Its U.S. Rival Lyft*
*https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...RLbDvM&usg=AFQjCNFP3ANVtop-5CjRpLvMYmSb9dJiKg*


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber's Chinese Rival Didi Kuaidi Quietly Backs Its U.S. Rival Lyft
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...RLbDvM&usg=AFQjCNFP3ANVtop-5CjRpLvMYmSb9dJiKg*


Nice,

Bringing the battle to Uber and at same time limiting Lyfts expansion in Asia.

Look for Lyft to be completely bought out by Didi.

This is good for drivers, as more competitors and delivery services enter market, drivers will be more in demand and income should increase.

I've noticed a trend in companies advertising on radio and with newspaper inserts for class "A" and class "B" drivers. I think there is a shortage of qualified drivers.

Hopefully this will spread down to the class "C" drivers soon.


----------



## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

When Google finally enters the fray with its own app we will finally have an (un)holy trifecta. Drivers and consumers can only win from competition....


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*China's Didi Kuaidi Put $100M Into Lyft, Inks Ridesharing Alliance To Rival Uber*
*http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/16/ub...t-form-international-ridesharing-partnership/*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*LinkedIn And Uber's China Rival Didi Kuaidi Ink Deal To Partner On Apps, R&D And Recruitment*
*http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/23/li...-partner-on-apps-rd-and-recruitment/?ncid=rss*


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> *China's Didi Kuaidi Put $100M Into Lyft, Inks Ridesharing Alliance To Rival Uber*
> *http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/16/ub...t-form-international-ridesharing-partnership/*


I was thinking of how this partnership changes the balance between Uber and Lyft.

Strategically it's a good move for Didi because it allows them to enter the US market with a "minimal" investment.

The interesting thing is that Didi is able to expand OUTSIDE China but Uber is going to be a risky expansion bet IN China.

I think China will start limiting Ubers growth there very soon, probably by blocking uberpool. They can't let Uber get too popular.

Also, as I mentioned before, ultimately Didi will completely buy out Lyft.


----------



## Luberon (Nov 24, 2014)

Lyft may finally have some money to run a decent marketing campaign. Something they have not done for almost two years.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Uber and Google missing from summit class photo,

http://qz.com/509683/uber-google-and-women-were-conspicuously-absent-from-the-us-china-tech-meet/


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*China Proposes Stricter Laws Targeted At Ridesharing Apps Like Didi Kuaidi And Uber*
*http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/11/china-ridesharing-regulation-draft/*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber Seems To Be Getting Its Butt Kicked In China*
*http://www.forbes.com/sites/brianso...uaidi-claims-its-kicking-ubers-butt-in-china/*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*WeChat Blocks Uber (Again) In Ongoing China Rideshare War*
*http://motherboard.vice.com/read/wechat-blocks-uber-again-in-ongoing-china-rideshare-war*


----------

