# Unfair Traffic Ticket



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

A couple of weeks ago I was driving and the traffic light ahead turned orange. I was in the middle of the intersection when the light turned red. This was legal under California law as the car had already passed the stop line. The cop parked up at the intersection didn't like it though, pulled me over and gave me a red light ticket. I told him I went through on orange but he wasn't having it.

I'm going to fight it by written declaration and if that fails, by trial. In both cases, it's going to be my word against the cop's. My question is, has anybody beaten a ticket in a case like this when it's your word against an officer's?


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## Josho (Nov 27, 2014)

Usually the courts will believe the cop in stuff like that unless there is evidence otherwise

Your only hope I think is that the cop does not show up to the trial and judge dismisses case


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

Here's a trick to try. Wait until the day of your court date and call the court claiming family emergency and have them give you a new date. Often the cop will not show up on the new date since your case will not be when he has many tickets. (Cops write the same court date on all their tickets so they are not in court all the time) Show up for the new date and hope the cop doesn't show. If he is a no-show, your case might get dismissed because the cop is not there to tell his side of the story.


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## grUBBER (Sep 11, 2014)

elelegido said:


> A couple of weeks ago I was driving and the traffic light ahead turned orange. I was in the middle of the intersection when the light turned red. This was legal under California law as the car had already passed the stop line. The cop parked up at the intersection didn't like it though, pulled me over and gave me a red light ticket. I told him I went through on orange but he wasn't having it.
> 
> I'm going to fight it by written declaration and if that fails, by trial. In both cases, it's going to be my word against the cop's. My question is, has anybody beaten a ticket in a case like this when it's your word against an officer's?


Just tell the judge you were texting your uber passenger and was too busy to watch those stupid traffic lights.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

elelegido said:


> A couple of weeks ago I was driving and the traffic light ahead turned orange. I was in the middle of the intersection when the light turned red. This was legal under California law as the car had already passed the stop line. The cop parked up at the intersection didn't like it though, pulled me over and gave me a red light ticket. I told him I went through on orange but he wasn't having it.
> 
> I'm going to fight it by written declaration and if that fails, by trial. In both cases, it's going to be my word against the cop's. My question is, has anybody beaten a ticket in a case like this when it's your word against an officer's?


* I have.. Just show up for your trial date in court, and the cop that gave you the ticket doesn't show, your case is dismissed. If the officer is there, if found guilty try to plea bargain by only having to pay the fine. Most states give you 30 days to pay it. This may or may not work. Pay the fine by check and over pay by a couple of bucks. They'll send you a refund check. Don't cash it. It's not a guarantee but worth a shot, if it ever comes to that.*


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. I know not to ask if the fact that I'm innocent will affect the verdict


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## gman (Jul 28, 2014)

elelegido said:


> A couple of weeks ago I was driving and the traffic light ahead turned orange. I was in the middle of the intersection when the light turned red. This was legal under California law as the car had already passed the stop line. The cop parked up at the intersection didn't like it though, pulled me over and gave me a red light ticket. I told him I went through on orange but he wasn't having it.
> 
> I'm going to fight it by written declaration and if that fails, by trial. In both cases, it's going to be my word against the cop's. My question is, has anybody beaten a ticket in a case like this when it's your word against an officer's?


 I'm four for four on trial by written declarations. I would think since it's holiday time the cop might be busy and/or feeling generous and not send his part in. If that happens then you win. If not try the strategy suggested above for the court date.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

elelegido said:


> A couple of weeks ago I was driving and the traffic light ahead turned orange. I was in the middle of the intersection when the light turned red. This was legal under California law as the car had already passed the stop line. The cop parked up at the intersection didn't like it though, pulled me over and gave me a red light ticket. I told him I went through on orange but he wasn't having it.
> 
> I'm going to fight it by written declaration and if that fails, by trial. In both cases, it's going to be my word against the cop's. My question is, has anybody beaten a ticket in a case like this when it's your word against an officer's?


Yes. Both radar and red light tickets for friends.

What exactly did he say to you?

BTW....don't count on the cop not showing up. It's mandatory 2 hrs minimum every time a cop acts as a cop in any manner. You can easily rack up a days worth of ot just going to court.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

hmmmm, i must live in a 3rd world state. our traffic lights are yellow


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## SDUberdriver (Nov 11, 2014)

elelegido said:


> A couple of weeks ago I was driving and the traffic light ahead turned orange. I was in the middle of the intersection when the light turned red. This was legal under California law as the car had already passed the stop line. The cop parked up at the intersection didn't like it though, pulled me over and gave me a red light ticket. I told him I went through on orange but he wasn't having it.
> 
> I'm going to fight it by written declaration and if that fails, by trial. In both cases, it's going to be my word against the cop's. My question is, has anybody beaten a ticket in a case like this when it's your word against an officer's?


_I'm in San diego also. What intersection is this? I have never seen and Orange light. I haven seen Red ,Yellow and green&#8230;._


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## cheerose (Aug 29, 2014)

Where was the car when the light turned orange/yellow?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

He just said that I went through a red light. I said no it wasn't, he said yes it was.


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## Art (Jun 18, 2014)

Realityshark said:


> Here's a trick to try. Wait until the day of your court date and call the court claiming family emergency and have them give you a new date. Often the cop will not show up on the new date since your case will not be when he has many tickets. (Cops write the same court date on all their tickets so they are not in court all the time) Show up for the new date and hope the cop doesn't show. If he is a no-show, your case might get dismissed because the cop is not there to tell his side of the story.


Don't give advice thats outdated!

Now you must reschedule you court date at least 10 days before your court date. And you have to go to court to do that, NO EXCEPTION...
And now they look in the book to see when that same cop has to appear in court again and schedule you on that date.
What your talking about used to be way back when cops had to use their paid days off to appear in court, now they get paid for it and so the county's work more efficient to make you pay! 
Bottom line is its a 50/50 if the cop shows up you LOOSE.


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## cheerose (Aug 29, 2014)

Right, but going through red should only be legal if you could not stop in time.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

elelegido said:


> He just said that I went through a red light. I said no it wasn't, he said yes it was.


Ok.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

I would go to court expecting the officer to appear. He testifies first, and you get a chance to ask questions. Go back to the intersections and take pictures / videos from all four directions, so that you will be prepared to draw a diagram showing where he was in relation to your vehicle. Call the court ahead of time and ask if you will be able to put a digital picture or video up on a screen for the commissioner to view. If you saw him prior to him suddenly in your rear view mirror, make the pictures/video from that point only. Otherwise be ready based on the officer's statements to show pictures of what he would see. He may say that he saw the opposing light turn green, in which case you could ask what the delay is between lights at that specific intersection. Be prepared and time it with a stopwatch.
Be polite and respectful. You may be offered traffic school before the trial starts. Good luck!


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Re the scheduling of the court date, in Ventura County where I live and my son is a Sheriff's sergeant, they have with them on every shift what the appearance date/deadline for citations written on that shift will be. If the officer has vacation scheduled, he notifies the court. Otherwise, he is expected to show up and gets a minimum four hours overtime if he is not scheduled for duty. In the meanwhile the defendant has notified the court of his desire to face his accuser in court. Here it is not a judge, but an experienced lawyer serving as a traffic court commissioner. I have gone along with my son on his day off to watch and found it very interesting to observe. The folks who show up prepared only to say "I'm innocent" but who have nothing to back it up usually lose. If you have reasonable questions, or polite challenges to the officer's statements, you might have a chance. One last thought, check the intersection from all sides, looking at the back of the signal lights, especially any overhead lights. There may be a tell-tale light that lets an officer see when the cross traffic light changes. Again, use a stopwatch to time the various stages of lights, and by all means, call the light amber or yellow in court, not orange. My dashcam would show the light was amber!


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## Dakijan (Aug 5, 2014)

I was told in traffic school that yellow lights last the posted speed limit divided by ten. So a street that posts 35 mph, the stop light will stay yellow for 3.5 seconds. Its a good tip.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

http://blog.photoenforced.com/2011/02/what-is-proper-length-for-yellow-light.html#.VIEYu9q9KSM


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## gman (Jul 28, 2014)

UL Driver SF said:


> BTW....don't count on the cop not showing up. It's mandatory 2 hrs minimum every time a cop acts as a cop in any manner. You can easily rack up a days worth of ot just going to court.


This is true, but they DON'T get paid for filling out the trial by declaration paperwork. So that's where your best chance lies.


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## UL Driver SF (Aug 29, 2014)

gman said:


> This is true, but they DON'T get paid for filling out the trial by declaration paperwork. So that's where your best chance lies.


Uh...yea...actually they do. They just do it on duty as part of their job. Should they have no time to finish it in shift they can have a supervisor approve the OT.

There is no official duty an officer can be refused pay.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

elelegido said:


> Thanks for the replies. I know not to ask if the fact that I'm innocent will affect the verdict


None of us are innocent.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

elelegido said:


> He just said that I went through a red light. I said no it wasn't, he said yes it was.


That's where you made the mistake. You already explained to us why it shouldn't have been a ticket but it sounds to him like you just wanted to argue instead of explaining to him in a way that makes it sound like you know what you're talking about.
The correct thing to say is that your wheels and tires had already crossed the limit line and that you were already committed to the intersection before the light turned red. You say it like that and he'll know that you know what you're talking about.
Trial by declaration is a good option because he might not have the time to respond, he might be on vacation, he might hate writing more paper or the notice might be delayed in the station somewhere. When you write your declaration mention the words I gave you above. You could also say the cop wasn't in a good position to see that your car had already crossed the limit line.


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## timmyolo (Sep 5, 2014)

Just tell the judge he cannot fine you or give you points as this uber is a new technology and is above the law, and that Travis K has your back and that he is having none of it...
seriously, just explain what uberdude2 said to the judge, prolly would get a dismissal. sadly, no guarantees tho...


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## timmyolo (Sep 5, 2014)

oh, and good luck!


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

I get off all my tickets under the ground of my human rights were violated.

We have a law in Canada that we have a right to s speedy trial. Our system is so backed up that it takes longer than 8 months to get a trial date. With that in mind I need to file the legal documents 30 days before the trial and do a bit of running around delivering the legal packages. But when it gets to trial I ask for a stay in the proceedings and it never even gets to a plea. It's just dismissed.

Haven't paid a ticket in over 10 years. Works for everything.

Only had to fight one ticket 2 years ago for an left hand turn during a non turning time. I got a trial date set for 60 days....fastest they have done that. I asked to see the officers notes on my ticket and he didn't have them. I said the officer should have notes on all traffic stops and that there is no notes of him inspecting the intersection before the ticket was issued. Judge agreed that the officer in previous tickets had notes but nothing written for me or of the event. His memory could be faulty and he couldn't answer if the signs that day were obstructed or not.

Case dismissed. Not guilty.

It's all on how you spin it with lack of evidence.


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## dboogie2288 (Nov 19, 2014)

I've done the re-scheduling and hoping for the best many times.

What worked for me was request a hearing > within the set amount of days documented by the court, request a continuance > youll get a letter back giving you a new date > within the set amount of days documented by the court, request ANOTHER continuance > you can try a 3rd time, I have, but generally by that point the cop is like, ah **** it..and wont show.

Oh. and buy a dash camera. Can cost <100 bucks...take that memory card and a tablet to court and PROVE you entered the intersection before the red and youre golden. Then its cop versus YOUR evidence.


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## CNJtrepreneur (Mar 25, 2015)

I got a ticket for "Move Over Law"*, and I'm wondering if a Trial by Written Declaration is worth it. Or rescheduling the trial to the county seat.

Details: it's a violation with 3 points, and $ 100-500 fine. The local courthouse is 18 minutes' drive from the county seat courthouse, so it's not that much of an inconvenience for the cop.

I admit that I don't really understand the benefit of Written Declaration... is it the same effect as rescheduling, i.e. making it inconvenient for the cop? Or is there something else? (I got about 3 hours of sleep last night, so I'm mildly ******ed right now... someone explain using small words plz.)

* One of New Jersey's ridiculous laws, that says it's not enough to slow down when you're passing a cop on the side of the road, but you have to move over a lane. Well, the problem is, there was another cop on my 7 o'clock, and there were 4 other stop-scenes on the next 2 blocks, so it looked like he was going to pass me on the left and work backup to one of the scenes. The last thing I wanted to do was move into the left lane and cut off a cop, so I slowed down to ~25 and crawled past the stop-scene... at which point the ****er behind me turned on his lights & gave me a ticket. Nicely played.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

CA version says "reduce speed and move over if possible" or words to that effect. It is not just for cops, but includes other emergency vehicles, road crews and tow trucks, provided vehicles have emergency flashers on.


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## UberDude2 (Nov 19, 2014)

CNJtrepreneur said:


> I got a ticket for "Move Over Law"*, and I'm wondering if a Trial by Written Declaration is worth it. Or rescheduling the trial to the county seat.
> 
> Details: it's a violation with 3 points, and $ 100-500 fine. The local courthouse is 18 minutes' drive from the county seat courthouse, so it's not that much of an inconvenience for the cop.
> 
> ...


Both those tactics are like you said, to make it inconvenient for the cop and hope he doesn't respond. Thus getting the ticket dismissed. Here in California you have to request the county seat at the time you receive the ticket. I don't think it can be changed afterward.
It's worth a shot to go trial by declaration and hope the cops notice got lost in the system.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

CNJtrepreneur said:


> * One of New Jersey's ridiculous laws, that says it's not enough to slow down when you're passing a cop on the side of the road, but you have to move over a lane. .


i cant believe the law MANDATES you move over no matter what
no, that cant be. no way


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> i cant believe the law MANDATES you move over no matter what
> no, that cant be. no way


I can see how that's not very believable, however when driving thru nj last year, I learned that making left turns is about as simple as parking in NYC (or any other big city). So when comes to anything in that state, the more unbelievable it sounds, it's most likely true.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> i cant believe the law MANDATES you move over no matter what
> no, that cant be. no way


Pa has a similar law.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Huberis said:


> Pa has a similar law.


my key point is "move over no matter what"
that is simply not always possible
they have to allow situations where you cant
and in most those situations slowing down will suffice
i doubt you will find anyone getting a ticket when they couldnt safely move over

MANDATING you have to move over, with no just slowing down option, MANDATES that accidents will happen


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

CNJtrepreneur said:


> I got a ticket for "Move Over Law"*, and I'm wondering if a Trial by Written Declaration is worth it. Or rescheduling the trial to the county seat.
> 
> Details: it's a violation with 3 points, and $ 100-500 fine. The local courthouse is 18 minutes' drive from the county seat courthouse, so it's not that much of an inconvenience for the cop.
> 
> ...


I passed a stopped cop car downtown. I didn't change lanes but left about 5 feet of space. The cop was standing by the hood of the car and whined to me as I passed, "Jees, could you get any closer to my car?"

I thought about calling back, "Does it have claustrophobia issues?" but then thought he'd probably pull a Cherry so decided against it.


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## SFX (May 30, 2015)

elelegido said:


> A couple of weeks ago I was driving and the traffic light ahead turned orange. I was in the middle of the intersection when the light turned red. This was legal under California law as the car had already passed the stop line. The cop parked up at the intersection didn't like it though, pulled me over and gave me a red light ticket. I told him I went through on orange but he wasn't having it.
> 
> I'm going to fight it by written declaration and if that fails, by trial. In both cases, it's going to be my word against the cop's. My question is, has anybody beaten a ticket in a case like this when it's your word against an officer's?


I'm not sure cops have to show up anymore for a trial to be valid. Keep in mind that in these situations you have two options: a) petition for a lower payment b) contest the citation in court in order to have it dismissed (in which case the officer would or would not show up). I dealt with this myself and that's how I found out one of the nice ways our CA gov is ripping everyone off. The reason citations/tickets are so expensive in CA (highest in the nation) is the so-called penalty assessments. Every moving violation (that's what you got, not a parking ticket) in CA is tagged with 12-15 'penalty' assessments that add anywhere from $5-25 on the ticket price. Basically the state of CA is taxing drivers and then using the money to fill in whatever holes in the budget. So the assessments pay for the court system, DNA crime labs, juvenile rehabilitation centers, etc etc. Taxation w/o representation, it is shit like that that is slowly turning me into a Republican. Back to the point, if you choose option a) by just showing up at the court they will drop the penalty assessments. This will bring the price down to $280 for red light I believe. Of course one will wonder why don't they just charge the citation price and save the court's time and expense. Tickets in CA have gone so much up in the last 10 years that 80% of people decide to contest them. If the price tag was lower many folks would just pay it and save time and money on the already overloaded court system. Anyway, with option a) you can also elect to attend driving school. Completing driving school can be done online, of course you pay MORE fees and surcharges etc etc. BUT completion of driving school will 'hide' the 1 point you got from your insurance and you shouldn't see any changes in your insurance 'premium' (another euphemism for doling out money). If you choose option b) you have to convince the judge. If you win ticket is dismissed. If you loose you pay full tix price plus court fees (another $120). Not sure if you get driving school with option b). So, there you have it.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

elelegido said:


> I passed a stopped cop car downtown. I didn't change lanes but left about 5 feet of space. The cop was standing by the hood of the car and whined to me as I passed, "Jees, could you get any closer to my car?"


did you slow down or continue to zoom by?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> did you slow down or continue to zoom by?


I rolled by at around 10mph


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

elelegido said:


> I rolled by at around 10mph


then that should be more than good enough
you should have given the cop the finger then


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Bart McCoy said:


> you should have given the cop the finger then


Thanks; I'll remember that for next time.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> did you slow down or continue to zoom by?


ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!


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## OCBob (Jan 20, 2015)

elelegido said:


> A couple of weeks ago I was driving and the traffic light ahead turned orange. I was in the middle of the intersection when the light turned red. This was legal under California law as the car had already passed the stop line. The cop parked up at the intersection didn't like it though, pulled me over and gave me a red light ticket. I told him I went through on orange but he wasn't having it.
> 
> I'm going to fight it by written declaration and if that fails, by trial. In both cases, it's going to be my word against the cop's. My question is, has anybody beaten a ticket in a case like this when it's your word against an officer's?


You will never win this if he shows based on "He said, she said". As stated before to at least all California drivers, before the cop goes back to his car, ask him if he is giving you a ticket. If he says "yes" then ask for county court. I have fought 4 or 5 in the last 15 years and have never seen a cop at Santa Ana Court House. Of course if you are getting that ticket in the same area as county court, you will get the cop showing up. Good Luck!


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