# Threw a PAX out of the car



## GlavanizeR (Jul 21, 2015)

So, last night I have this about 40 year old woman who enters the car and throws some bags angrily on the floor and ask me to wait, because she is waiting for the rest. Then her family shows up, which is consisted of two 30 lbs kids, a 120 lbs husband and an angry indian grandma, who upon entering my car starts hitting my front seat, so that it moves back(I keep my seat pulled max to the front, so it can be comfortable for the **********). 

I look at them and I tell them there is no way that I take 5, with 2 under 5-6 year old kids. Then we start the well known argument with the "but the other driver had no problem" BS. After a 4 min time waste I ask them to leave the car and that I am not going anywhere. 

They start leaving and the head of the house aka the DAD starts threatening me, that he will file a complaint and asks for my name, which I give and ask him to leave, before it gets unpleasant. He continues to stay in and I tell him "If you do not leave my vehicle I will come the other side and throw you out". 

He stays. I get out go around and pull him out and throw him on the street. I look around and it is a very crowded street in Old Town Chicago and I see 20 people looking at me. So, I am wondering - what will happen now? When is my deactivation email coming ?


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## Mr_Frenchie (Jul 13, 2015)

Next time call the police. Do not TOUCH the pax for any reasons.

It’s called a LAWSUIT. lol

You have every right to refuse the ride. Max 4 passengers only.

I always tell them to call uberXL.


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## Micmac (Jul 31, 2015)

Hopefully not! but next time bro if somebody refuse to leave your car don't touch them dial 911.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

I wonder if this is a YouTube video somewhere!


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Micmac said:


> Hopefully not! but next time bro if somebody refuse to leave your car don't touch them dial 911.


Don't call 911. Call the police. 911 is only for emergencies. If you call 911 for a pax who won't get out of your car, you'll potentially get fined for improper use of the 911 system.


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## GlavanizeR (Jul 21, 2015)

Yeah and wait half an hour for the non-emergency guys to show up.


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## Raider (Jul 25, 2014)

You'll be deemed a racist and a lawsuit will follow. Should've called the local police


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

GlavanizeR said:


> Yeah and wait half an hour for the non-emergency guys to show up.


Well now you're revealing your own sense of fast food world entitlement.

Call the local police so the pax can hear you do it. If they are still waiting in your car when the police finally arrive, they're an idiot. When they get out, which is likely, leave and call the police back and say the issue is over.


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## Micmac (Jul 31, 2015)

It's all uber fault not teaching Pax!!! August 6 uber will learn its faith from the court of appeal 3 more days
And this Sh * t will end .


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## RainbowPlate (Jul 12, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Don't call 911. Call the police. 911 is only for emergencies.


An intruder in your car is absolutely an emergency worthy of 911.

Please cite a law enforcement source to the contrary if you have one.

In the meantime, the correct course of action is: pull over somewhere that the pax can safely exit., turn off the engine, remove the key, and sound the car alarm.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

RainbowPlate said:


> An intruder in your car is absolutely an emergency worthy of 911.
> 
> Please cite a law enforcement source to the contrary if you have one.


http://www.911.gov/whencall.html


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## marty (Jul 17, 2015)

I think I would call the police unless they threatened or you suspect violence....

Despite the potential for a lawsuit hopefully its a done deal.....

Ohh but I wish I had been around to see a jerk pax get physically bounced from a car. 

You are the wind beneath my wings sir.


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## Emp9 (Apr 9, 2015)

omg, yeah mine wouldnt get out either, wtf is wrong with PAx, do they feel we are slaves or they own the right to our personal vehicle when they refuse to get out? there is about 20 other ubers around gtfo!!!. but yeah never touch them , they can sue and call the cops and make up more. hopefully the csr bot gves them a that wasnt uber of us canned response .


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## Emp9 (Apr 9, 2015)

GlavanizeR said:


> Yeah and wait half an hour for the non-emergency guys to show up.


 say i think he may have a gun , and watch the boys fly in gung ho ready for action. lol


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## RainbowPlate (Jul 12, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> http://www.911.gov/whencall.html


From that very website:

*Important: If you're not sure whether the situation is a true emergency, officials recommend calling 911 and letting the call-taker determine whether you need emergency help.*​
Thanks for playing, and we have some lovely parting gifts for you...


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

RainbowPlate said:


> From that very website:
> 
> *Important: If you're not sure whether the situation is a true emergency, officials recommend calling 911 and letting the call-taker determine whether you need emergency help.*​
> Thanks for playing, and we have some lovely parting gifts for you...


If you feel your life is threatened, by all means call 911 immediately. But most people have the common sense that a rider in an Uber is not an intruder. It's a customer. In this case it's a customer who is rightfully being denied service and is refusing to leave. If you lack this common sense, then please call 911 so the call-taker can explain to you what an idiot you are.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

GlavanizeR said:


> When is my deactivation email coming ?


You mean it hasn't arrived yet?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

GlavanizeR said:


> Yeah and wait half an hour for the non-emergency guys to show up.


UberHammer is, as usual, absolutely right.
It's not about you being inconvenienced - it's about not tying up emergency services.

Still feel entitled to on-demand assistance from 911?

Think of it this way:
if your mom or wife were the next call in line after yours for a real emergency -
and your call is the one that prevented them from getting help in time to save their life.

Still think it's 'ok' to use 911 for something non-life threatening?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

RainbowPlate said:


> An intruder in your car is absolutely an emergency worthy of 911.


An intruder? Sure.
A passenger you have asked to leave who won't -
and is nothing more than an inconvenience to you?
Not.


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## JLA (Mar 26, 2015)

They know perfectly well there are vehicles that will accommodate that many people. Over 4 and it's Uber black or SUV only. They're really doing an amazing job of stepping into that well known stereotype of Indians being extremely cheap though.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Don't call 911. Call the police. 911 is only for emergencies. If you call 911 for a pax who won't get out of your car, you'll potentially get fined for improper use of the 911 system.


As long as you "feel threatened" it is not an issue no matter what. And if someone refused to leave your house would you feel differently?


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## Micmac (Jul 31, 2015)

Now do you have the right to bounce pax from your car?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> UberHammer is, as usual, absolutely right.
> It's not about you being inconvenienced - it's about not tying up emergency services.
> 
> Still feel entitled to on-demand assistance from 911?
> ...


Someone who is so f****** nuts that they think it's ok to refuse to leave your vehicle IS a threat IMHO. Hell, here you could probably shoot them and get away with it.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Once again, we have a description from a driver a situation escalating out of control *because of the driver's actions.*

GalvanizeR - as soon as the woman "...ask[ed] me to wait, because she is waiting for the rest" you should have asked how many were riding. You could have then told her you couldn't do the ride and helped her order an XL.

Driver's really ought to stop acting like passengers know what they are doing... they don't. Partly because you don't have to learn anything to use the app - partly because Uber doesn't teach people how to use the app - and partly because a lot of drivers just don't care and allow passengers to 'break the rules - making it harder on driver's who do follow the rules and laws.

I typically have a pretty short fuse - and don't suffer fools well. So I know how hard it is to turn off that hair-trigger reaction to being abused... but you have to unless you want to find yourself in jail for assault... which you, GalvanieR, may still find.


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## JLA (Mar 26, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Someone who is so f****** nuts that they think it's ok to refuse to leave your vehicle IS a threat IMHO. Hell, here you could probably shoot them and get away with it.


I agree. This POS was a danger to the OP.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

JLA said:


> They know perfectly well there are vehicles that will accommodate that many people. Over 4 and it's Uber black or SUV only. They're really doing an amazing job of stepping into that well known stereotype of Indians being extremely cheap though.


They know perfectly nothing.
Just like most of the drivers out there.
The drivers that come to this website or use the FB group are the minority...
the majority are driving blind


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## JLA (Mar 26, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> They know perfectly nothing.
> Just like most of the drivers out there.
> The drivers that come to this website or use the FB group are the minority...
> the majority are driving blind


Seems this would be an easily correctable thing for Uber to do. No more then 4 passengers on X.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Someone who is so f****** nuts that they think it's ok to refuse to leave your vehicle IS a threat IMHO.


That may be your opinion - but unless there was a threat or perceived threat, it won't be the police's opinion.
REMEMBER: The OP made a point of saying the guy was 120lbs...
I've had pets that weight more than that.
No mention of any physical threat - no mention of a weapon of any kind.
The OP just lost his temper and decided that because he had (what, 100 pounds on the dude?) that he could manhandle him.
That's assault.
He will be tossed off Uber - and he will be lucky if he's not arrested.

------------------------
ASSAULT
an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.

The essential elements of assault consist of an act intended to cause an apprehension of harmful or offensive contact that causes apprehension of such contact in the victim.


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## marty (Jul 17, 2015)

It seems uber should do a better job educating drivers and riders regarding how to handle these situations. I am getting a lot more insight on handling situations like that from these boards than anything uber provides.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

JLA said:


> Seems this would be an easily correctable thing for Uber to do. No more then 4 passengers on X.


I agree they should do more... but that is already their policy.
*If Uber can't get it's PARTNERS to read and understand rules and procedures, 
what is it that makes you think they can get riders to?*


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## JLA (Mar 26, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I agree they should do more... but that is already their policy.
> *If Uber can't get it's PARTNERS to read and understand rules and procedures,
> what is it that makes you think they can get riders to?*


Someone recommended in another post just getting out and turning the car alarm on. See how long they can tolerate it.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

JLA said:


> Someone recommended in another post just getting out and turning the car alarm on. See how long they can tolerate it.


I'd only do that if I felt threatened.
I would NOT leave a pax alone in my car unless I felt threatened.

The one time I asked someone to get out of my car and they refused, I just called the local police and waited...
The pax called someone to pick her up - and they arrived just before the cop did and she left.
The cop pulled up a few minutes later, I filed a police report and an incident report with Uber.


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## JLA (Mar 26, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I'd only do that if I felt threatened.
> I would NOT leave a pax alone in my car unless I felt threatened.
> 
> The one time I asked someone to get out of my car and they refused, I just called the local police and waited...
> ...


Either way or both. However, in those kind of situations the cops might not get there for awhile. Plus, hitting the car alarm on some shithead in your car while your filming might be fun.


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## Mycarhatesme (Jul 21, 2015)

Awsome.... Rambo Uber ..... It's all Ubers fault for cutting rates so low. Drivers are furious....


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## eltakasaaiya (Jul 15, 2015)

Next time have them order an Auto Rickshaw. That will fit 10 family members. Oh wait have them get their bajaj scooter. 5 of them can ride. Typical of my people always act cheap. 

No wonder why we control 99% of motel business and 7/11's by sucking the blood of the people. 

This is why I have not gone back home in past 7 of my last 19 yrs and most likely will never go back. I am tired of educating my countrymen that stop being cheap you are not representing yourself but your whole nation. 


No one ever listens.


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## eltakasaaiya (Jul 15, 2015)

JLA said:


> They know perfectly well there are vehicles that will accommodate that many people. Over 4 and it's Uber black or SUV only. They're really doing an amazing job of stepping into that well known stereotype of Indians being extremely cheap though.


Very much agree with you. I have seen my country people bargaining at walmart. WTF.


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## GlavanizeR (Jul 21, 2015)

Tbh, I have been thinking of the situation all day. I do not want to manhandle anyone who is 120 lbs, but they were simply ****ing with me, I was being polite for 4 minutes. I am not a maggot or a little working ant that everbody can step on. And in theory, I am not a commericial vehicle, so I guess they were in my property.
P.S I asked how many they were, she answered 3(not counting the two 3-4-5 year old children)


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## eltakasaaiya (Jul 15, 2015)

eltakasaaiya said:


> Very much agree with you. I have seen my country people bargaining at walmart. WTF.


As my wife is in the business of Indian food catering. She deals with bunch of them everyday who try to cut the price or look for a bargain. Like minded people like her in the same business have set price. And there is no bargain. She will charge them upfront because in the past when she made and delivered the food and when time to collect payment tbey would discount the bill by 20%. Lesson learned. No deals cash payments upfront.

Thank God. Most of her customers are locals and repeat clients she does not have to depend on people from my country for the caterings.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Don't call 911. Call the police. 911 is only for emergencies. If you call 911 for a pax who won't get out of your car, you'll potentially get fined for improper use of the 911 system.


Good advice thanks


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

You physically removed him from your car, I hope you dodge that potential bullet.


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## Choochie (Jan 4, 2015)

eltakasaaiya said:


> Next time have them order an Auto Rickshaw. That will fit 10 family members. Oh wait have them get their bajaj scooter. 5 of them can ride. Typical of my people always act cheap.
> 
> No wonder why we control 99% of motel business and 7/11's by sucking the blood of the people.
> 
> ...


What are you talking about - an Indian pax gave me a $5 tip. I have a lot of Indian clients in my other business and I relate well because of my familiarity with the culture. They are always very hospitable to me when I go in their restaurant. I never paid for a meal but I did pay in other ways


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## Emp9 (Apr 9, 2015)

Choochie said:


> I never paid for a meal but I did pay in other ways


 ummm sexual favors for curry?


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## Micmac (Jul 31, 2015)

Choochie said:


> What are you talking about - an Indian pax gave me a $5 tip. I have a lot of Indian clients in my other business and I relate well because of my familiarity with the culture. They are always very hospitable to me when I go in their restaurant. I never paid for a meal but I did pay in other ways


It does not matter the color of your skin or where are you from if you are An A$$hole your an A$$hole . Thank you any other questions ?


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## Choochie (Jan 4, 2015)

Emp9 said:


> ummm sexual favors for curry?


I ain't no crack hoe. No I'm talking about a lot of free work that they are supposed to do but request me to do for them. Well I always get repeat business and all their relatives business, but I do earn those free meals.


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## Choochie (Jan 4, 2015)

Micmac said:


> It does not matter the color of your skin or where are you from if you are An A$$hole your an A$$hole . Thank you any other questions ?


True but I read a few derogatory comments that were not necessary.


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## LA Cabbie (Nov 4, 2014)

To every driver reading this. Never touch a passenger because they can have you arrested for assault. This they taught us first thing in our training class. Uber should make a thorough and comprehensive web page or pdf guide to better prepare their drivers.

We cabbies have cameras for a reason. Passenger can lie and his riders will also testify against you. Cameras never lie!!!

If passenger refuses to exit your vehicle, call police and put the dispatch on speaker. In all likelihood this will scare the passenger and they will save face by making some lame excuse that they have better things to do.

If they actually wait it out for the police, you can file false imprisonment and perhaps trespassing charges against them.


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## Oh My (Dec 26, 2014)

Mr_Frenchie said:


> Next time call the police. Do not TOUCH the pax for any reasons.
> 
> It's called a LAWSUIT. lol
> 
> ...


Threatening with calling the police always worked instantly for me. They know they're not going to win, especially when drunk.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

If you don't have the patience and empathy to deal with drunk young people (I don't) - then don't drive after midnight. Riders/paxs are not out there to make your experience as an uber driver - they are who they are, trying to get from point a to point b (and c, or d if they can remember). Point being, don't drive when and where you are likely to have to deal with obnoxious prats .

And if I may, let me go one step further and remind all those driver's with a short fuse in these situations:

YOU are the sober one.
YOU are the one who supposedly has the ability and wherewithal to keep a bas ride from getting out of control.

CONTROL: Exercise common sense.


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## Jason2k15 (Jul 31, 2015)

GlavanizeR said:


> So, last nite I have this about 40 year old woman who enters the car and throws some bags angrily on the floor and ask me to wait, because she is waiting for the rest. Then her family shows up, which is consisted of two 30 lbs kids, a 120 lbs husband and an angry indian grandma, who upon entering my car starts hiting my front seat, so that it moves back(I keep my seat pulled max to the front, so it can be comfortable for the mongloids). I look at them and I tell them there is no way that I take 5, with 2 under 5-6 year old kids. Then we start the well known arguement with the "but the other driver had no problem" BS. After a 4 min time waste I ask them to leave the car and that I am not going anywhere. They start leaving and the head of the house aka the DAD starts threatening me, that he will file a complaint and asks for my name, which I give and ask him to leave, before it gets unpleasant. He continues to stay in and I tell him "If you do not leave my vehicle I will come the other side and throw you out". He stays. I get out go around and pull him out and throw him on the street. I look around and it is a very crowded street in Old Town Chicago and I see 20 people looking at me. So, I am wondering - what will happen now? When is my deactivation email coming ?


Some people aren't cut out for this line of work. It's all about service. Unfortunately it's you who looks bad no matter how the customer acted. Unless they pull a gun or assault you, you have no reason to touch them as that can be considered assault.


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## Stratos (Jun 3, 2015)

It all depends on where you live and the laws of that state. Someone gets into your car and then refuses to leave is the same as someone who comes into your house and refuses to leave. IMO if you have to physically remove them so be it. Get charged go to trial and when the court hears that they refused to leave and then you physically removed them MOST of the time you will win.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Stratos said:


> It all depends on where you live and the laws of that state. Someone gets into your car and then refuses to leave is the same as someone who comes into your house and refuses to leave. IMO if you have to physically remove them so be it. Get charged go to trial and when the court hears that they refused to leave and then you physically removed them MOST of the time you will win.


No it's not. Someone coming into your house (uninvited) is trespassing. Someone invited in to your house who refuses to leave when asked is trespassing. Someone who pays you to come into your house so you can provide a service you agreed to provide? Now you're talking about lots of different opinions - and unique circumstances. When you're working Uber and accept a ride request, you're entering into a contract. You have every right to cancel the contract - but that doesn't necessarily leave the other party without rights, too.

In any - case... it's not the same.


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## Stratos (Jun 3, 2015)

We do not enter into the contract till we BEGIN TRIP and as Independent contractors we can end Trip at any given time. Thus by refusing to leave the Pax is in violation of laws pertaining to private property. Said other party has no right to remain inside my vehicle once I've ended the Trip nor can they insist that I begin the trip after I've refused them service in my POV. Yet we are talking state laws and Ohio where you are at is different then Texas in some regards.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

I believe they can shoot them in Texas.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

I think we can all agree with this: Who wants to waste time and money for a lawyer fighting some bullshit assault charge?

Passenger wont leave? Just tell them you're calling the police and do it. If you have a camera to record everything, even better. Often when things go to court it doesn't matter who is right or wrong. What matters is, who has the better attorney. Don't believe me? Ask OJ Simpson.


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## Stratos (Jun 3, 2015)

That's why I like my attorney.


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## Renaldow (Jul 17, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> No it's not. Someone coming into your house (uninvited) is trespassing. Someone invited in to your house who refuses to leave when asked is trespassing. Someone who pays you to come into your house so you can provide a service you agreed to provide? Now you're talking about lots of different opinions - and unique circumstances. When you're working Uber and accept a ride request, you're entering into a contract. You have every right to cancel the contract - but that doesn't necessarily leave the other party without rights, too.
> 
> In any - case... it's not the same.


Yeah, it's pretty much exactly the same. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. By your logic, bars and clubs shouldn't have bouncers because everyone inside is there to use a service the bar is providing and it is illegal to remove them forcibly because they have rights. What people don't like to hear is that their actions, sober or otherwise, can create a situation where they lose their rights. You have a right to be in a bar and have a drink. When you drink too much and create a problem for others, you have lost your right to be in that bar and drink. You have a right to be a pax in a car. When you do something that creates a problem for others in the car, you lose your right to be a pax in that car.

There may be 'lots of opinions' but that's all they are: Opinions. Not fact, not law. Enjoy your opinions, I will continue to use laws.


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## Stratos (Jun 3, 2015)

Realityshark said:


> I believe they can shoot them in Texas.


Yep that's already happened.


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## Stratos (Jun 3, 2015)

I would agree with one point from above, if you are going to call the cops don't call 911 if you have a 311 number also. 311 is for non emergency's some ahole not wanting to get out of your car is not an emergency unless they have a weapon or are restraining you in some form or fashion. 311 has a good response time here in Austin not sure about other areas.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Renaldow said:


> Enjoy your opinions, I will continue to use laws.


Except that everything you talked about was based on one persons 'opinion' of another person's behavior, not on law.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Renaldow said:


> Yeah, it's pretty much exactly the same. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.


If you think a personal or domestic relations incident is the same as a dispute in a commercial enterprise, you're fooling yourself. About the only thing they have in common is that they are both civil matters (until someone lays a hand on someone).


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Stratos said:


> We do not enter into the contract till we BEGIN TRIP


Nope.
When you drive with the app online, you are making yourself available to consider rider requests.
When you accept a ride request, you enter into an agreement.
(I'm not saying you can't cancel-
but at that point you've accepted the offer to pick-up the passenger at their designated location and transport them at an agreed upon rate)



> ...by refusing to leave the Pax is in violation of laws pertaining to private property


CIVIL LAW - not criminal law.
Good luck with that.


> Said other party has no right to remain inside my vehicle once I've ended the Trip nor can they insist that I begin the trip after I've refused them service in my POV.


No argument from me there.
But you can talk 'law' all you want.
It won't help diffuse a bad situation once it starts escalating.
*You can be 'right' and still be wrong.*


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

[QUOTE Reality shark, post: 394842, member: 2541"]I believe they can shoot them in Texas.[/QUOTE]

I think that's why I've only once had to tell someone more than twice to get out of my car. First it's a nice "We are done here. I am not transporting you." Then it's "This is MY car and you are now trespassing. GET OUT!"

The one exception was a ***** from CA who was pissed we don't have Uber pool and wanted to end and restart the trip to avoid a 2.1 surge.

Her Texas friends were pulling her out of the car.


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## Stratos (Jun 3, 2015)

Because in Texas we do things a bit differently.


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## Richard Cranium (Jun 25, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Don't call 911. Call the police. 911 is only for emergencies. If you call 911 for a pax who won't get out of your car, you'll potentially get fined for improper use of the 911 system.


I agree with one caveat: If in fear of bodily injury.


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## Richard Cranium (Jun 25, 2015)

Emp9 said:


> omg, yeah mine wouldnt get out either, wtf is wrong with PAx, do they feel we are slaves or they own the right to our personal vehicle when they refuse to get out? there is about 20 other ubers around gtfo!!!. but yeah never touch them , they can sue and call the cops and make up more. hopefully the csr bot gves them a that wasnt uber of us canned response .


Again another reason for a camera in the car.


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## GrandpaD (Jul 29, 2015)

If you have a smart phone, you do have a camera for such things. I read another thread where a driver pre-sets up his phone camera in "selfie" mode. Single press of a button on your phone screen and a slight twist of the phone mount and you're recording the back seat.


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## insfireguy (Aug 4, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> UberHammer is, as usual, absolutely right.
> It's not about you being inconvenienced - it's about not tying up emergency services.
> 
> Still feel entitled to on-demand assistance from 911?
> ...


Reminds me of my career in ems when a frequent caller who would call because he was drinking and his liver hurt because he used his 10 day supply of morphine in one day took a crew out of service. Whe they were attending to him a call came in for a baby that had fallen from a table onto its head. The next closest ambulance was 20 min away.


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## Emp9 (Apr 9, 2015)

there are a lot of comments here but one wouldnt understand till they get a PAX that refuses to get out and you are so angry at them. it takes a lot to controll yourself ,since in VA we pay property tax a car is considered an extension of your home actually. (now i am not saying it was ok to pull the pax out by hand,no that was wrong indeed" till you have gone through it you cant fully understand though.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

I've have just driven to the nearest police station while calling 911 so they can meet you. THIS way they have to find their own way back to where ever it is their trying to go. If during the trip they want out fine but don't offer to drive them back to where they started. They had the chance to get out there before it escalated.


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## Micmac (Jul 31, 2015)

GlavanizeR said:


> So, last nite I have this about 40 year old woman who enters the car and throws some bags angrily on the floor and ask me to wait, because she is waiting for the rest. Then her family shows up, which is consisted of two 30 lbs kids, a 120 lbs husband and an angry indian grandma, who upon entering my car starts hiting my front seat, so that it moves back(I keep my seat pulled max to the front, so it can be comfortable for the mongloids). I look at them and I tell them there is no way that I take 5, with 2 under 5-6 year old kids. Then we start the well known arguement with the "but the other driver had no problem" BS. After a 4 min time waste I ask them to leave the car and that I am not going anywhere. They start leaving and the head of the house aka the DAD starts threatening me, that he will file a complaint and asks for my name, which I give and ask him to leave, before it gets unpleasant. He continues to stay in and I tell him "If you do not leave my vehicle I will come the other side and throw you out". He stays. I get out go around and pull him out and throw him on the street. I look around and it is a very crowded street in Old Town Chicago and I see 20 people looking at me. So, I am wondering - what will happen now? When is my deactivation email coming ?


Any emails from Guber bro?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Emp9 said:


> there are a lot of comments here but one wouldnt understand till they get a PAX that refuses to get out and you are so angry at them. it takes a lot to controll yourself ,since in VA we pay property tax a car is considered an extension of your home actually. (now i am not saying it was ok to pull the pax out by hand,no that was wrong indeed" till you have gone through it you cant fully understand though.


I have tossed more than a couple of folks out of my car. And called the cops on one who refused to leave. I don't know that someone has to experience something personally in order to have a helpful opinion - but I do get your point.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

D Town said:


> I've have just driven to the nearest police station while calling 911 so they can meet you. THIS way they have to find their own way back to where ever it is their trying to go. If during the trip they want out fine but don't offer to drive them back to where they started. They had the chance to get out there before it escalated.


I like that... if they refuse to get out, just tap 'destination' in your NAV program, tap the mic and say the name of the city you're in and 'police station'... and off you go. At that point, it's hard to imagine any pax not saying - 'let me out'.


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## Emp9 (Apr 9, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> [QUOTE Reality shark, post: 394842, member: 2541"]I believe they can shoot them in Texas.


I think that's why I've only once had to tell someone more than twice to get out of my car. First it's a nice "We are done here. I am not transporting you." Then it's "This is MY car and you are now trespassing. GET OUT!"

The one exception was a ***** from CA who was pissed we don't have Uber pool and wanted to end and restart the trip to avoid a 2.1 surge.

Her Texas friends were pulling her out of the car.[/QUOTE]
it must be a cali thing because i had one a few months back that asked me to pull over end and restart the trip non surge. i refused and said you can go and wait for a new uber i only took it because of the surge. the audacity of these people. smh. god forbid we actually make a wage worth doing.


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## djino (Mar 15, 2015)

Some good conversation in this thread. But most of Michael - Cleveland posts appear to make more sense and likely the advice I would follow.

I haven't yet encountered a situation that required me to ask the PAX to leave my vehicle (*knock on wood*), but I'm sure this will happen sooner or later. I have been putting off getting a dash cam for months now, that I think I should really look at getting one now just so that its not just my word against the pax should a situation escalate that involves someone of authority.

Anyways, some good advice. I would likely politely ask the pax to leave. If they refused. I'd say "If you do not leave within the next 30 seconds, I will be calling the police in addition to heading to the nearest police station.". If they still refuse, I'll do exactly that. If I'm attacked from the inside of my car, I'll make the car alarm sound.

djino
"I'd assume that is the best process to follow"


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## poopy (Jun 28, 2015)

djino said:


> If I'm attacked from the inside of my car, I'll make the car alarm sound.


*visualizing djino blocking as many rained blows to his head as humanly possible, whilst doing a convincing car alarm impression.*


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## R44KDEN (Jul 7, 2015)

Thankfully in 1300+ rides, this has never happened to me. But if did, I would have trouble sitting and waiting for law enforcement. I have a camera in the car which is always on. I would let them know that first. 

I would then get out of the vehicle with my cellphone (never stay in the vehicle). I would ensure the drivers window is down. 

1. I would take my 4 D-Cell Maglite which is beside my seat. 
2. I would call 9-11 and say this "I am an Uber driver and am at such and such location. My vehicle registration is XXX. 
3. I have a passenger who is refusing to leave. A camera in the car is recording all movement and audio. 
4. I have a flashlight with me. 
5. Please also be aware that I am a concealed carry holder and that I have my weapon holstered, however I do fear for my safety"

Only an idiot would stay in the car at this point.

However the smarter thing to do would to have never let these people get in the car in the first place. Thats why I never unlock doors until I am sure of how many people and what sort of condition they are in.


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## Cary Grant (Jul 14, 2015)

I've had to boot one pax. He got angry about something beyond my control (traffic), then began insulting me, my attire (casual business), my car, my state, my culture, my ethnicity. So I pulled into the first C-store, and said "Ride's over. Get out."

He refused, so I said in a tone that brooked no debate: "Now you're trespassing, it's after sundown, and this is Texas, making your refusal the worst idea you've had in your life. Leave now, or I'll call the police."

I think he turned slightly whiter as he RAN full-speed from the vehicle.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

R44KDEN said:


> Thankfully in 1300+ rides, this has never happened to me. for my safety"
> ... Only an idiot would stay in the car at this point...


No personal offense intended, but I have been in that situation, and 
there is no way I am leaving a passenger alone in my luxury vehicle unless I feel physically threatened. 
I made that mistake once - I won't make it again.


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## Renaldow (Jul 17, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Except that everything you talked about was based on one persons 'opinion' of another person's behavior, not on law.


Not at all. You should take the time to read your local and state laws. They will explain these things to you. Maybe have a discussion with a local police officer. Taking the time to educate yourself on what you are talking about before actually talking about is worthwhile.


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## Renaldow (Jul 17, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> If you think a personal or domestic relations incident is the same as a dispute in a commercial enterprise, you're fooling yourself. About the only thing they have in common is that they are both civil matters (until someone lays a hand on someone).


Not at all. When someone is refusing to leave your car, they are trespassing. That is a criminal, not civil.


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## R44KDEN (Jul 7, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> No personal offense intended, but I have been in that situation, and
> there is no way I am leaving a passenger alone in my luxury vehicle unless I feel physically threatened.
> I made that mistake once - I won't make it again.


No offense taken at all. When I say "leave the vehicle" I dont mean run away, waving your arms. I would stand right beside the car, with the key in my pocket. If the pax starts to damage something, I'll have it on tape.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Renaldow said:


> Not at all. When someone is refusing to leave your car, they are trespassing. That is a criminal, not civil.


Let me know when you get a cop to arrest an Uber pax for that.
In the meantime, well - believe what you want.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

R44KDEN said:


> No offense taken at all. When I say "leave the vehicle" I dont mean run away, waving your arms. I would stand right beside the car, with the key in my pocket. If the pax starts to damage something, I'll have it on tape.


No you won't... trust me. 
They will find a way to damage your vehicle or steal from you. 
It's not worth it. 
Just call the cops and drive to the police station. 
They'll get out.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Renaldow said:


> Not at all. You should take the time to read your local and state laws. They will explain these things to you. Maybe have a discussion with a local police officer. Taking the time to educate yourself on what you are talking about before actually talking about is worthwhile.


It's always so much fun to watch when someone just assumes that they know something that another person doesn't - when they know absolutely nothing about that person. I'd say stick to your opinions - but I really don't want to tell anyone else what to do. And you're doing a fine job of exhibiting what you think you know.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> I would never say that about a regular member.


You lie!! I am sure that over the last eight months 
you've called me a ******** dozens of times 
(bet you didn't think I could hear you, did you?)


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## yellow (Sep 7, 2014)

GlavanizeR said:


> So, last night I have this about 40 year old woman who enters the car and throws some bags angrily on the floor and ask me to wait, because she is waiting for the rest. Then her family shows up, which is consisted of two 30 lbs kids, a 120 lbs husband and an angry indian grandma, who upon entering my car starts hitting my front seat, so that it moves back(I keep my seat pulled max to the front, so it can be comfortable for the **********).
> 
> I look at them and I tell them there is no way that I take 5, with 2 under 5-6 year old kids. Then we start the well known argument with the "but the other driver had no problem" BS. After a 4 min time waste I ask them to leave the car and that I am not going anywhere.
> 
> ...


Reading this post only made me think of one thing:

What would Doyle do?


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## ChrisB1090 (Aug 5, 2015)

I have my CCW permit. I would pull my firearm out of my holster set it on my lap and calmly and as creepily as possible say, "Get out or I'm going to have to clean a mess out of my car. And blood stains... I don't like stains." Or just throw them out. It's trespassing. Any business can ask any person at any time to leave the premises of that business. If they refuse they are trespassing. At least that's the case in Ohio.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You lie!! I am sure that over the last eight months
> you've called me a ******** dozens of times
> (bet you didn't think I could hear you, did you?)


I am ready to be proved wrong.


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## groovyguru (Mar 9, 2015)

Just get a strobe light. Keep it in the trunk. Plug it into a socket and turn it on. Light the interior of the car like a cheap ass disco lounge. And crank up some shitty hip hop. Take your keys and stand outside the car. Fold your arms and smile.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

ChrisB1090 said:


> I have my CCW permit. I would pull my firearm out of my holster set it on my lap and calmly and as creepily as possible say, "Get out or I'm going to have to clean a mess out of my car. And blood stains... I don't like stains." Or just throw them out. It's trespassing. Any business can ask any person at any time to leave the premises of that business. If they refuse they are trespassing. At least that's the case in Ohio.


Hey - if that's your plan, you may want to let your attorney (and your wife) know
so that they are prepared to bail you out of jail -
because:

First, *There is NO CRIMINAL TRESPASS* if there is no period of time between when you invited the person into your home/property/vehicle and the time you ask them to leave when they are not present in that place (vehicle). If THEY have a reasonable belief that they have the right to be where they are, then no trespass has been committed - and the burden will be on YOU to prove the person doesn't have permission to be where they are&#8230;
Good luck convincing a police officer, prosecutor and judge of that (after you're the one who invited the person in and charged them a fare).

Second, Criminal Trespassing in Ohio (O.R.C.2911.21) is a Fourth Degree Misdemeanor
(right up there with Jay-Walking) while *violation of Ohio CCW laws is a FELONY*.

Don't pay the price of just assuming you know what your rights are when you carry a gun.
Find out what's legal - and what's not legal - and what might end you up behind bars.

Ohio O.R.C. 2903.21 *Aggravated menacing.*
_No person shall knowingly cause another to believe that the offender will cause 
serious physical harm to the person or property of the other person&#8230;_​It is CRITICAL to understand this law if you are an Ohio CCW license holder because gun owners can be accused of AGGRAVATED MENACING simply by virtue of the fact that they're carrying a gun, or because they drew a gun when they felt threatened. Note that you must KNOWINGLY cause another to believe that you'll cause them harm. *If you draw your gun because you feel threatened but do not fire it, aggravated menacing charges may be filed against you* instead of assault charges.

Here are the 5 rules which apply:

1. *YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF LIFE ONLY.*
Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the wrongful and criminal activities of another.​
2. *KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON.*
A criminal adversary must have or reasonably appear to have:

A. The ABILITY to inflict serious bodily injury. He is armed or reasonably appears to be armed.
B. The OPPORTUNITY to inflict serious bodily harm. He is positioned to harm you with his weapon, and,
C. His INTENT (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy - to do you serious or fatal physical harm.​
3. *IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN!*
Just because you are armed doesn't necessarily mean that you must confront a bad guy at gunpoint.​
4. *DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL.*
You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional, innocent, or justified the situation might seem.​
5. *DON'T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU. *
When you are armed, you must realize that you just lost your right to initiate ANY type of confrontation that could possibly escalate into a violent encounter. You must now have a very mellow attitude on life and your fellow mankind.​
* YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF LIFE ONLY.*
When you are armed, you must realize that you just lost your right to initiate ANY type of confrontation that could possibly escalate into a violent encounter. You must now have a very mellow attitude on life and your fellow mankind.

-------------------------------------------------------------
*FROM THE OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL:*
The Ohio Supreme Court has explained that a defendant must prove three conditions to establish that he acted in defense of himself or another.

*1: Defendant Is Not At Fault*
First, the defendant must prove that he was not at fault for creating the situation. *The defendant cannot be the first aggressor or initiator*.​
However, in proving the victim's fault, a defendant cannot point to other unrelated situations in which the victim was the aggressor. Remember, the focus is on the specific facts of the situation at hand.​
*If you escalate a confrontation by *throwing the first punch, attacking,* or drawing your handgun, you are the aggressor*. Most likely in this situation, you cannot legitimately claim self-defense nor would you likely succeed in proving your affirmative defense.​
*2: Reasonable and Honest Belief of Danger*
Second, the defendant must prove that, at the time, he had a real belief that he was in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm and that his use of deadly force was the only way to escape that danger. Bear in mind that deadly force may only be used to protect against serious bodily harm or death. The key word is "serious."​
*3: Duty to Retreat*
A defendant must show that he did not have a duty to retreat or avoid the danger. A person must retreat or avoid danger by leaving or voicing his intention to leave and ending his participation in the confrontation.​
*The CASTLE DOCTRINE:*
Being a lawful occupant of a residence *or vehicle* is *not* a license to use deadly force against an attacker. The person who is attacked, without fault of his own, may use deadly force only if he reasonably and honestly believed that deadly force was necessary to prevent serious bodily harm or death.​
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Definition of Criminal Trespass in Ohio*: Ohio Reivsed Code: O.R.C. § 2911.21

• Knowingly enter in and/or remain on another person's property, land, or premises
• Knowingly enter in and/or remain on another person's property, land, or premises where access is restricted by specific factors like hours or persons
• Refusing or failing to leave land or premises after being given notice to leave by appropriate signs and fencing restricting access
• Refusing or failing to leave land or premises after being given verbal notification to do so​
Land or premises includes any land, building, structure, or place belonging to, controlled by, or in custody of another person or entity, and any separate enclosure, room, or portion thereof.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Hey - if that's your plan, you may want to let your attorney (and your wife) know
> so that they are prepared to bail you out of jail -
> because:
> 
> ...


What the hell are you doing with this? He has a CCW which means he went to a class where instructors TAUGHT him ALL of this plus he got written material and you think your message board post is finally going to inform him? That's beyond wishful thinking, man. Likely he's talking out of his a$$. He doesn't have a CCW or if he does he's trying to sound cool - when really he just sounds like a moron.

*ChrisB1090 *if you truly own guns and were in any way serious about what you said then you need to sell your guns to fund some much needed mental healthcare. Stop making gun owners look like lunatics.


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## ChrisB1090 (Aug 5, 2015)

Hahaha I own several guns. That part was a joke lmao. Do you really think that part was serious? _"Get out or I'm going to have to clean a mess out of my car. And blood stains... I don't like stains."_ Also look at the very last part of your long winded post of copy and paste. *"• Refusing or failing to leave land or premises after being given verbal notification to do so." In this example he never started the fare. *Also display my weapon and go to jail? I think not. Open carry is legal to do so and have been on several open carry walks with others with their long rifles and handguns. You cannot be convicted with anything by just openly carrying a firearm in public.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

ChrisB1090 said:


> Hahaha I own several guns. That part was a joke lmao. Do you really think that part was serious? _"Get out or I'm going to have to clean a mess out of my car. And blood stains... I don't like stains."_ Also look at the very last part of your long winded post of copy and paste. *"• Refusing or failing to leave land or premises after being given verbal notification to do so." In this example he never started the fare. *Also display my weapon and go to jail? I think not. Open carry is legal to do so and have been on several open carry walks with others with their long rifles and handguns. You cannot be convicted with anything by just openly carrying a firearm in public.


I've posted the Ohio laws for you...
If you don't want to read them - or don't understand them, that's your problem, not mine.
And if you don't understand that brandishing a weapon in response to a conflict with another person is AGGRAVATED MENACING - well, again - it's your problem...
so stick to your misconceptions -
you may still be able to read this forum from jail.



> You cannot be convicted with anything by just openly carrying a firearm in public.


Tell that to the officer who arrests you for having a loaded gun within reach in your vehicle.
The prosecutor will also get a chuckle of that assertion.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

ChrisB1090 said:


> If they refuse they are trespassing. At least that's the case in Ohio.


In the case of an Uber ride, where you have invited a pax into your car by accepting a ride request, *no, it is not trespassing* under Ohio law if you later ask them to leave and they refuse. Disagree all you want - but you can't cite a single case to support your position (because there is none). I searched Lexis-Nexus and Westlaw with my attorney this morning to get the answer to the question. It may be something else, but it is not criminal trespassing.


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## BKNY75 (Oct 25, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> If you feel your life is threatened, by all means call 911 immediately. But most people have the common sense that a rider in an Uber is not an intruder. It's a customer. In this case it's a customer who is rightfully being denied service and is refusing to leave. If you lack this common sense, then please call 911 so the call-taker can explain to you what an idiot you are.


Anybody that does not get out of my car when I tell them to is not a "customer". He/she is a trespasser. Same as if there was somebody in my house who no longer had my permission to be there. The circumstances that led them to be there become irrelevant the second I tell them to get out. Unless that person is there to put out a fire or save a life, I say get out, they get out. And yes, I'm calling 911. I have no idea what that person's mental state is, or whether or not they will escalate the situation and constitute a threat to my life.

Since Uber's policy states I'm not allowed to carry a gun and defend myself then I'm calling the number that will get the people with guns to my car the fastest. And that number just so happens to be 911.


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## BKNY75 (Oct 25, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> In the case of an Uber ride, where you have invited a pax into your car by accepting a ride request, *no, it is not trespassing* under Ohio law if you later ask them to leave and they refuse. Disagree all you want - but you can't cite a single case to support your position (because there is none). I searched Lexis-Nexus and Westlaw with my attorney this morning to get the answer to the question. It may be something else, but it is not criminal trespassing.


By your logic, if somebody knocks on your door to sell you a vacuum cleaner and you let them in to hear their sales pitch, they can stay in your house as long as they want, even after you tell them "no thank you, please leave."

Or if you go to a doctor for an examination and he starts to touch you and you tell him to stop, it's not rape if he doesnt listen right?

This is no different. If a driver lets a passenger in their car with the understanding that they're going to give them a ride, once that ride ends, the business agreement ends.

Any person has the right to revoke permission to access to their person or their property at any time.

I can kick a passenger out of my car the same way I can kick a maid out of my house. It is my right as a homeowner just like it is my right as owner of that car.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Legally speaking, if they had permission to ENTER, then regardless of what happens after that, it fails to meet the legal definition of trespass. That doesn't mean they have a right to stay, which is why you call the police if they refuse to leave... but no, it's NOT trespassing when they had permission to enter, as Uber riders do in the drivers car when the trip is accepted by the driver. The driver can cancel at any point, but that does NOT make the rider guilty of trespassing when the driver cancels after they entered the car.

tres·pass
ˈtrespəs,ˈtresˌpas/
_verb_

1.
*enter the owner's land or property without permission.*
"there is no excuse for trespassing on railroad property"
synonyms: intrude on, encroach on, enter without permission, invade
"there is no excuse for trespassing on railroad property"
2.
archaicliterary
commit an offense against (a person or a set of rules).
"a man who had trespassed against Judaic law"
synonyms: sin, transgress, offend, do wrong, err, go astray, fall from grace, stray from the straight and narrow
"he would be the last among us to trespass"
_noun_

1.
*LAW
entry to a person's land or property without their permission.*
"the defendants were guilty of trespass"
synonyms: *unlawful entry*, intrusion, encroachment, invasion
"his alleged trespass on private land"
2.
archaicliterary
a sin; an offense.
"the worst trespass against the goddess Venus is to see her naked and asleep"
synonyms: sin, wrong, wrongdoing, transgression, crime, offense, misdeed,misdemeanor, error, lapse, fall from grace
"he asked forgiveness for his trespasses"


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

BKNY75 said:


> Anybody that does not get out of my car when I tell them to is not a "customer". He/she is a trespasser. Same as if there was somebody in my house who no longer had my permission to be there.


I understand you (and others) believe that.
But *it's not true*.
And if you take action (physical, violent or threatening) based on that false belief, you could find yourself in a lot of legal trouble.
Please be careful

The legal reasons of why *A PAX is not criminal trespassing when you tell them to leave your car* and they don't are a little complex - and counter intuitive to many in this group... but they are sound.

You do not have to take anyone's word for it... just ask your attorney 
(and when asking the question, don't just conveniently leave out the part about the person being in your car in the first place because you picked them up by accepting them as a passenger in response to their ride request.).


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Legally speaking, if they had permission to ENTER, then regardless of what happens after that, it fails to meet the legal definition of trespass. That doesn't mean they have a right to stay, which is why you call the police if they refuse to leave... but no, it's NOT trespassing when they had permission to enter, as Uber riders do in the drivers car when the trip is accepted by the driver.


Holy crap - someone who actually understands the law! 
sheesh... I was beginning to feel very lonely out here.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

BKNY75 said:


> By your logic, if somebody knocks on your door to sell you a vacuum cleaner and you let them in to hear their sales pitch, they can stay in your house as long as they want, even after you tell them "no thank you, please leave." Or if you go to a doctor for an examination and he starts to touch you and you tell him to stop, it's not rape if he doesnt listen right? This is no different. If a driver lets a passenger in their car with the understanding that they're going to give them a ride, once that ride ends, the business agreement ends. Any person has the right to revoke permission to access to their person or their property at any time. I can kick a passenger out of my car the same way I can kick a maid out of my house. It is my right as a homeowner just like it is my right as owner of that car.


Absolutely correct. And while the person may not have the right to remain in your car - they are not 'criminal trespassing'. THANK YOU for NOT using that term!


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And if you take action (physical, violent or threatening) based on that false belief, you could find yourself in a lot of legal trouble.
> Please be careful


I'm quite shocked at all the heat we've gotten for advising people what not to do in these situations. We are not suggesting that if a driver feels they are in danger to NOT call 911. Of course 911 should be called by the driver if they feel they are in danger. Absent of danger, the driver could find themselves in some degree of legal trouble based on how they respond to a rider that refuses to exit the vehicle. You and I have absolutely nothing to gain by sharing that fact. It's to the readers benefit that they be informed of the issues they could face by handling it wrong. Those who don't like what we have to say about it should really just STFU because if readers think we're incorrect here, they could end up learning the hard way that we were right. No skin off my back if that happens though, so I think I'm done with this thread. The legally ignorant can own it from this point on. I don't care.


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## Cary Grant (Jul 14, 2015)

Every state is different, regarding laws (trespassing, concealed handguns, etc.). Every Uber driver should speak to their own legal counsel on how to handle issues such as this. You can ask a cop, but their statements do not count as legal advice. They may not know the answer, and cops can lie on purpose for their own reasons -- absolutely nothing you can do about that. I would not ask a cop for legal advice.

I talked to my attorney, twice, about issues that kept coming up with Uber pax (open containers, minors and infants without car seats, pizza delivery without pax, more than four pax, and the issue at hand - trespassing). I got my money's worth, too.

My attorney told me that in my state, once I tell someone to leave, be it home, property, or vehicle, their refusal constitutes trespassing. I was instructed to use that term, to tell the pax that they are, in point of fact, *trespassing*, once they refuse to exit. I used that language, and the _trespasser _ran pell-mell across the parking lot like his ass was on fire and his hair was catching.

In another state where I work, I've witnessed a client trespass a customer that refused to leave after being denied service (bar, restaurant). The police showed up. Asked my client "Do you want to trespass them?" Client said "Yes." Police turned to the (now former) customer and said "You're trespassing. You must leave immediately, or you will be arrested for trespassing."

My attorney says that same exact situation applies to Uber (in my resident state). Once a driver trespasses a customer, they cease being a customer, and become a criminal instantly when they fail to leave immediately. Their continued presence in the vehicle constitutes a criminal act, and I know how my CHL instructor from Quantico taught us how to deal with criminal trespassers.

Now, all you Google keyboard warriors that want to look up bovine scat to argue have fun with that. I don't care. You're not my attorney, and you never will be, so squander your time all you want. I'll be making money while you type.

Please, everyone who drives, who carries concealed, make sure you talk to YOUR attorney, in YOUR state.


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## UberXking (Oct 14, 2014)

Cary, 
Great information. Thanks for posting. I won't have to raise my voice again. When dealing with problem pax. I'll just say your trespassing in a nice tone.
You also mentioned an important fact about the police that deserves repeating. Police don't have to tell you the truth. They will lie to you if it is to their benefit. Uber uses the same tactics in their communications with their driver's almost all the time. Driver beware.


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## newsboy559 (Oct 14, 2014)

Mr_Frenchie said:


> Next time call the police. Do not TOUCH the pax for any reasons.
> 
> It's called a LAWSUIT. lol
> 
> ...


Lawsuit? The vehicle is his property and at that point, the man is trespassing. He had every right to throw the man out by force. There will be no lawsuit.


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## Mr_Frenchie (Jul 13, 2015)

newsboy559 said:


> Lawsuit? The vehicle is his property and at that point, the man is trespassing. He had every right to throw the man out by force. There will be no lawsuit.


trust me. this is "he said I said". The driver will lose. trust me. Did he have a dash cam. no.

trust me. Not only a lawsuit he could have gotten an assault charge. He is lucky it was an immigrant.

trust me on this one.


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## Mr_Frenchie (Jul 13, 2015)

The best action is call for the police.

easy peasy.


Too many of you are over thinking this. Brining up the code 35f section n208 or whatever. LOL


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Cary Grant said:


> Every state is different, regarding laws (trespassing, concealed handguns, etc.). Every Uber driver should speak to their own legal counsel on how to handle issues such as this. You can ask a cop, but their statements do not count as legal advice. They may not know the answer, and cops can lie on purpose for their own reasons -- absolutely nothing you can do about that. I would not ask a cop for legal advice.
> I talked to my attorney, twice, about issues that kept coming up with Uber pax (open containers, minors and infants without car seats, pizza delivery without pax, more than four pax, and the issue at hand - trespassing). I got my money's worth, too.
> My attorney told me that in my state, once I tell someone to leave, be it home, property, or vehicle, their refusal constitutes trespassing. I was instructed to use that term, to tell the pax that they are, in point of fact, *trespassing*, once they refuse to exit. I used that language, and the _trespasser _ran pell-mell across the parking lot like his ass was on fire and his hair was catching.
> In another state where I work, I've witnessed a client trespass a customer that refused to leave after being denied service (bar, restaurant). The police showed up. Asked my client "Do you want to trespass them?" Client said "Yes." Police turned to the (now former) customer and said "You're trespassing. You must leave immediately, or you will be arrested for trespassing."
> ...


*Indeed state laws do vary and your advice to speak with an attorney about the laws in your state is spot on.*
If your attorney equated a paying pax in your ride-share car to a customer off the street in a store/bar, then they probably didn't have a full understanding of the situation - or they weren't familiar with the principle of trespass law involved when it comes to the 'customer's expectation and knowledge'. I know my own attorney did a 180% flip in his opinion after looking up court cases.

It's probably important to mention that no ones' 'opinion' matters (including mine) other than the judge and jury and how they interpret the law. My biggest concern overall, is that drivers seem to too often be putting themselves at risk by engaging in AGGRAVATED MENACING and ASSAULT. Trespassing is a minor misdemeanor in most (if not all) states. Aggravated menacing and assault are usually felony charges.

You make the choice.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Mr_Frenchie said:


> The best action is call for the police.
> easy peasy.


And the worst action is for a driver to think they have the right to threaten a pax or to assault a passenger.


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## Mr_Frenchie (Jul 13, 2015)

Also, I would not even say “I’m calling the police” In my experience people think that’s a joke or bluffing.

So, just start dialing “ hi, yes some stranger just got into my car and would not leave. Yes I’m on 12th street and Main. Thank you”


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Mr_Frenchie said:


> Also, I would not even say "I'm calling the police" In my experience people think that's a joke or bluffing.


In my experience - it's the passenger who says "I'm going to call the police"... and simply reply "Let me save you the trouble"...


> So, just start dialing " hi, yes some stranger just got into my car and would not leave.


Now you see, we were getting along just fine until you had to go and say that.
And THAT is the problem with the whole 'criminal trespassing' thing that some are claiming.
They are not a stranger.
You solicited them into your car by making yourself and your car available for hire.

Yes, you can change your mind and cancel the offer - BUT the pax has a 'reasonable expectation' to have the agreement completed. The believe they have a right to be in your car and to be transported (doesn't matter if you've canceled - that is THEIR state of mind - that you don't have the right to cancel...) and THAT is why it's not criminal trespassing - and why no driver should escalate a bad situation by threatening violence or comitting assault.

Rant over.

You're RIGHT - just call the police and be as polite as possible.

<whew>


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## Mr_Frenchie (Jul 13, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> In my experience - it's the passenger who says "I'm going to call the police"... and simply reply "Let me save you the trouble"...
> 
> Now you see, we were getting along just fine until you had to go and say that.
> And THAT is the problem with the whole 'criminal trespassing' thing that some are claiming.
> ...


Michael

Again you are over thinking it. You are getting caught up in the syntax of the wording. What I'm trying to say is in this situation. Just call the police and tell them the situation.

Why is that hard? LOL


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## Mr_Frenchie (Jul 13, 2015)

Like this should not happen. Saw this on youtube today. LOL


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

hehe... as evidenced by the OP - too many drivers are UNDER-thinking it.


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## Mr_Frenchie (Jul 13, 2015)

Also, if you don’t have a dash cam. I recommend that you start learning how to use your video camera on your smartphone and start rolling.


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## BKNY75 (Oct 25, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> In my experience - it's the passenger who says "I'm going to call the police"... and simply reply "Let me save you the trouble"...
> 
> Now you see, we were getting along just fine until you had to go and say that.
> And THAT is the problem with the whole 'criminal trespassing' thing that some are claiming.
> ...


Where you lose me is the whole "reasonable expectation" thing. Once a driver makes it clear to the passenger that the ride is over, and his car is no longer "available for hire" the only expectation on the passenger's part is to get the f*ck out of the car. It doesn't matter if they drive ten miles, ten feet, or didn't move an inch. The driver has every right to revoke the business arrangement at anytime for any reason. As does the passenger in all fairness.

Once the ride is over it's over. Once the driver tells the passenger to get out of his/her vehicle the only remaining expectation is for the passenger to get out.

I'm not advocating for drivers to get into physical altercations to get rid of unruly passengers, and while I will concede that there are better uses for 911, if dialing up an emergency dispatcher and getting a cop car moving in your direction prevents a school yard fist fight or worse on the side of the road, then dial away.


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## Mr_Frenchie (Jul 13, 2015)

BKNY75 said:


> Where you lose me is the whole "reasonable expectation" thing. Once a driver makes it clear to the passenger that the ride is over, and his car is no longer "available for hire" the only expectation on the passenger's part is to get the f*ck out of the car. It doesn't matter if they drive ten miles, ten feet, or didn't move an inch. The driver has every right to revoke the business arrangement at anytime for any reason. As does the passenger in all fairness.
> 
> Once the ride is over it's over. Once the driver tells the passenger to get out of his/her vehicle the only remaining expectation is for the passenger to get out.
> 
> I'm not advocating for drivers to get into physical altercations to get rid of unruly passengers, and while I will concede that there are better uses for 911, if dialing up an emergency dispatcher and getting a cop car moving in your direction prevents a school yard fist fight or worse on the side of the road, then dial away.


We are talking too much "what if situation" . What if he had a gun. what if he had a knife. what if what if..............

I'm just answering the OP. The original situation had the father refusing to leave his car. Call the police. For the grace of god call the daum police. LOL


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## Mr_Frenchie (Jul 13, 2015)

"He stays. I get out go around and pull him out and throw him on the street”

does he have every right? Of course he does. 

But just call the daum police. 

This job if you want to call it is very stressful. Don’t let anyone fool you. A lot of you don’t have the temperament for this driving. just saying. 

People talking about it’s their legal right to start shooting. crazy talk!


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## BKNY75 (Oct 25, 2014)

Mr_Frenchie said:


> We are talking too much "what if situation" . What if he had a gun. what if he had a knife. what if what if..............
> 
> I'm just answering the OP. The original situation had the father refusing to leave his car. Call the police. For the grace of god call the daum police. LOL


I didn't say anything about guns or knives. The only "what if" I'm talking about is "what if a driver's tells a passenger to get out of their car?"

And the only "reasonable expectation" is that they get out.


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## Mr_Frenchie (Jul 13, 2015)

BKNY75 said:


> I didn't say anything about guns or knives. The only "what if" I'm talking about is "what if a driver's tells a passenger to get out of their car?"
> 
> And the only "reasonable expectation" is that they get out.


Let's talk about the OP. basically the dad was verbally abusing the driver and refusing to exit the car. so, why is it so hard to call the police?

Just call the daum police. Lol

Let them deal with the pyscho dad. Seriously Uber is not paying me enough to do WWE with dads . Lol


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## BKNY75 (Oct 25, 2014)

Mr_Frenchie said:


> Let's talk about the OP. basically the dad was verbally abusing the driver and refusing to exit the car. so, why is it so hard to call the police?
> 
> Just call the daum police. Lol
> 
> Let them deal with the pyscho dad. Seriously Uber is not paying me enough to do WWE with dads . Lol


Dude, I'm right there with ya. like I already said....

"I'm not advocating for drivers to get into physical altercations to get rid of unruly passengers, and while I will concede that there are better uses for 911, if dialing up an emergency dispatcher and getting a cop car moving in your direction prevents a school yard fist fight or worse on the side of the road, then dial away."

To be totally honest I'm not really going to judge the OP. After a 1k rides I can honestly say that every ride, every passenger, had been different. Have I kicked people out of my car before? Yep. Did I have to put hands on them or call the cops? Nope.

But I wasn't there, so I'm not going to be critical of how the OP handled it. In the end, I say avoid violence if at all possible. But if it's not possible, you do what you feel is necessary to protect yourself and your property. If that's means calling the cops then cool. If that means drawing down and pulling out your legally owned firearm, that's cool too. It's your business, you handle it. Just stay safe when you do it, and be prepared to take responsibility and answer for your decisions.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Cary Grant said:


> Every state is different, regarding laws (trespassing, concealed handguns, etc.). Every Uber driver should speak to their own legal counsel on how to handle issues such as this. You can ask a cop, but their statements do not count as legal advice. They may not know the answer, and cops can lie on purpose for their own reasons -- absolutely nothing you can do about that. I would not ask a cop for legal advice.
> 
> I talked to my attorney, twice, about issues that kept coming up with Uber pax (open containers, minors and infants without car seats, pizza delivery without pax, more than four pax, and the issue at hand - trespassing). I got my money's worth, too.
> 
> ...


Looks like you're in Texas. I'm in Houston and the Dominos I work at has done the same thing with customers who refuse to leave. Generally the police take a long time to show up unless the customer is threatening you. But once told to leave you are indeed trespassing if you fail to do do.

As you point out all states are different. In TX this is the wording:

Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:

(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or

(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

(b) For purposes of this section:

(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.

(2) "Notice" means:

(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

BKNY75 said:


> Where you lose me is the whole "reasonable expectation" thing. Once a driver makes it clear to the passenger that the ride is over, and his car is no longer "available for hire" the only expectation on the passenger's part is to get the f*ck out of the car.


I understand that's your opinion - but that is not how the law works in general (specifically here in Ohio) - or how courts have ruled.

And in the very specific case of providing a service via the Uber App, it is - in the eyes of the law - perfectly understandable how a pax has a 'reasonable expectation' that the service they are paying will be completed per their expectations and the agreement entered.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Looks like you're in Texas. I'm in Houston and the Dominos I work at has done the same thing with customers who refuse to leave.


It *might* be in your best interest to stop trying to compare a business like Dominos or a bar/restaurant to an Uber ride. They are not the same. Those businesses do not sit around waiting for someone to say 'hey can you provide me a service', replying with 'sure', and then entering an agreement to provide the service. I know it seems like it's the same thing - but it's not.

You *might* afford yourself some measure of 'authority' by placing a notice in your car that reads:
"We reserve the right to cancel our agreement with you and end this ride at any time"


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

BKNY75 said:


> I didn't say anything about guns or knives. The only "what if" I'm talking about is "what if a driver's tells a passenger to get out of their car?"
> And the only "reasonable expectation" is that they get out.


I agree... but
Under the law - it's not your 'reasonable expectation' that matters.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> It's probably important to mention that no ones' 'opinion' matters (including mine) other than the judge and jury and how they interpret the law.


Exactly! Even lawyers have had their ass handed to them by judge and jury.

When you have a rider who wont leave, the best advice is to stay calm, call the police and let them handle it. Even verbal exchange with the rider can be risky as you could say something that triggers them into violence. Extreme response is highly risky, even if you think what you are doing is perfectly legal. In fact, your lack of response to them can typically lead to them just giving up on you and getting out on their own. If you keep responding to them, they'll continue to think they can get what they want from you. Silence kills their belief that they can get you to do what they want.


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## GlavanizeR (Jul 21, 2015)

Many of you underestimate the stupidity of Chicago police. They are useless. I have dealt with them many times, I dont trust the Chicago Police, nor I want to deal with them. City of Chicago is like the Wild West, the City bus hit me a month ago. Did the driver stop ? Nope ! I filed a police report, there are 10 cameras at that intersection. Is there any result ? Nope ! I have had people kicking my car, because they thought I went through a red light, while I was on green. 1 week ago a 65 year old guy dressed in a suit showed me a middle finger. Today a guy on a bycyle started knocking on my window because I was stepped on the white line on the light in Downtown Chicago(if any of you has dealt with the mongloids blocking the intersections all the time will get what I mean)where I was rightfully turning right on red. And I dont even want to start on the problem with the intersection blocking. I see the police walking by the place and just not giving a single ****, while it is a gridlock, because some people think that when it is green you go, no matter what. 80% of the people are animals, living and acting only on primal instincts.
And remember - there is a reason behind everything. When you drive as a low paid cab driver for uber, you start to understand the cab driver behaivior. At the beginning we are all smiley and pleasant, but at the end, when you see the next angry pax, wanting you to pick him up from the busiest itersection in the city at 5 p.m , where you have to block all the traffic, because you had to wait 5 min, because t"elevator stuck", you see the truth. Throwing them out of the car is the nicest thing you can do. This business model is not going to work. You can not get a good service for a cheap price, it is simply not right. Everything has value and reason. And the value does not equal the price in this case. It is the pukers, the people shaking the entire car while shaking their leg, the angry ones, the "why u take this street" guys, the "we are already in, no matter that we are 7 and we are on your lap" peeps, the "I dont know where I am" crowd, the "why is it surging" cheap pax and some other like "can we get there super fast, because I was taking a long shit and didnt consider the time needed to get there". And when you know you are doing that for no money on top, you simly are not happy. 
Is Uber a shitty Job ? 
It totally is! 
1.Your busy hours are when people are having fun or when you should be sleeping
2. Long hours
3. You are basically uninsured and if something happens and your insurance company finds out about ridesharing - you are ****ed. (Why are people buying new cars, btw?)
4. Can you choose who to pick ? Nope ! Can you cancel ? Nope! We has the cancellation bans a few weeks ago.
5. Does your employer give a shit about you ? Nope ! (Had a couple of accidents with people smoking weed in my car, dont want to start on that) Support is totally useless.
6. Is it sustainable and reliable ? Nope ! Nobody knows , you can get suspended because someone decided that you are too tall or because your autocheck says that the car was in an accident some day back. 
7. Do you have benefits ?  
8. Do you get paid well ? Not anymore! Used to be excited for fridays and now it is a total disaster. 
9. Do you need to be a silent mouse, so that you get a high rating ? Yes ! Sometimes your dignity needs to take a hit for no money !
Many people think that this is a very important job or a side thing in their lives. People, the time you invest in Uber is a time you can invest in yourselves by improving, studying or getting some kind of higher qualification. You dont get instant cash, but you get a lot more. 
So in conclusion, I dont think that it is a nice thing to throw people out, but sometimes it is necessery. You just need it after dealing with all that shit.


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## JaguaGirl (May 17, 2015)

Cary Grant said:


> Every state is different, regarding laws (trespassing, concealed handguns, etc.). Every Uber driver should speak to their own legal counsel on how to handle issues such as this. You can ask a cop, but their statements do not count as legal advice. They may not know the answer, and cops can lie on purpose for their own reasons -- absolutely nothing you can do about that. I would not ask a cop for legal advice.
> 
> I talked to my attorney, twice, about issues that kept coming up with Uber pax (open containers, minors and infants without car seats, pizza delivery without pax, more than four pax, and the issue at hand - trespassing). I got my money's worth, too.
> 
> ...


The laws vary from state to state but your thinking on trespassing in the home is wrong, in a lot of states. All a person has to do is cross the threshold with your permission & they are no longer considered to be anything but a guest. You can not physically remove someone from your house. You can ask them, the police can ask them but if they refuse, they are legally considered a tenant at sufferance & you have to go to court to evict them. Further, please do not let it be a tenant friendly state such as here in DC or New York. The judge could side with the person & give them more time to leave. It's called squatters rights. Google it! It's real. I've dealt with it first hand at one of my properties. One of the worst nightmares of my life. There are several high profile cases of nannies, family member's, airbnb guests, etc, not leaving one's home & it being a living nightmare to get them out.

Be very careful if you decide to get physical with someone. Next is a lawsuit against your homeowner's insurance. Things can escalate & get nasty very fast....

Caveat: I've been a practicing Realtor for 21 yrs.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

LOL

7 pages of arguments and none of you took the time to apply for Law School.

Let me make it simple for all of you; "You are in MY car, GTFO or get a beating".

OP.
Good for you.
Never use excessive force to remove PAX; no punching no kicking, no slapping PAX. Subdue if you must or if you are able to. If pax fights back, walk away and call 911.
But, if you can toss PAX in one single swoop, then do so with out dealing any damage to pax.

Pick up PAX of the ground, straighten his shirt and tell him have a nice day.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Legally speaking, if they had permission to ENTER, then regardless of what happens after that, it fails to meet the legal definition of trespass. That doesn't mean they have a right to stay, which is why you call the police if they refuse to leave... but no, it's NOT trespassing when they had permission to enter, as Uber riders do in the drivers car when the trip is accepted by the driver. The driver can cancel at any point, but that does NOT make the rider guilty of trespassing when the driver cancels after they entered the car.
> 
> tres·pass
> ˈtrespəs,ˈtresˌpas/
> ...





Michael - Cleveland said:


> Absolutely correct. And while the person may not have the right to remain in your car - they are not 'criminal trespassing'. THANK YOU for NOT using that term!


I don't know if you guys cherry picked or what but you OBVIOUSLY do NOT know what trespassing is. You're giving people some frightening and wrong headed ideas about their rights and what laws are being broken here. You post one part forget the other:

*What Is Criminal Trespass?*
Generally,* a person commits the crime of "criminal trespass" when he or she enters or remains on another's property without the owner's consent.* The property in question could be a house, apartment, office building, or sometimes even an automobile or aircraft.

*What Does "Without the Owner's Consent" Mean?*
In many states, the law assumes that the person knew they didn't have the owner's consent if the owner or someone with the authority to act on behalf of the owner personally communicates this fact to her, if there is a fence around the property, or if there's a sign or other posting on the property that's likely to be seen by intruders.

- See more at: http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/criminal-trespass-lawyers.html#sthash.fa8Xbw3M.dpuf
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/criminal-trespass-lawyers.html

Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) *A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another*, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:

(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or

(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

(b) For purposes of this section:

(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.

(2) "Notice" means:

(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;

(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;

(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, ind

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.30.htm


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## LA#1x3 (Jul 9, 2015)

I'm all for throwing them out if u ask them nicely repeatedly and they don't listen. What I'm suppose to call 911 wait 30 min if not more waiste my time and nerves. No thank u throwing them out is much faster and less time consuming


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

D Town said:


> *What Is Criminal Trespass?*


I'm afraid you're missing the relevant point, ("*Generally*, a person commits the crime of "criminal trespass").
A passenger who believes they have a right to be in your car because YOU accepted their request for a paid ride does not fall under the definition of "generally". THEY believe they have the right to be where they are. They believe we, as drivers, work for Uber and THEY have an expectation about the service for which they are paying.
A passenger in your car is not a stranger who happened to open your car door, get in without permission and then refuse to leave when told they are trespassing. The two situations are completely unrelated. And 'we' (drivers) don't just get to make shit up when it comes to how the law is applied. We like to think we do - but we don't.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I'm afraid you're missing the relevant point, ("*Generally*, a person commits the crime of "criminal trespass").
> A passenger who believes they have a right to be in your car because YOU accepted their request for a paid ride does not fall under the definition of "generally". THEY believe they have the right to be where they are. They believe we, as drivers, work for Uber and THEY have an expectation about the service for which they are paying.
> A passenger in your car is not a stranger who happened to open your car door, get in without permission and then refuse to leave when told they are trespassing. The two situations are completely unrelated. And 'we' (drivers) don't just get to make shit up when it comes to how the law is applied. We like to think we do - but we don't.


Wow. Now you're just throwing logic and reason out the widow because you've been proven wrong. No where in the LAW - which isn't anything any driver "made up" - does it say, "Well if someone BELIEVES they have a right to do what the hell they want in your property then its okay." No. What the LAW - not me, not Uber, not Joe Blow driver - says is clear: Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) *A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another*

*(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.*

See that second part there? That pretty clearly covers the whole you HAD permission then the owner revoked it part. I'm mystified how you can somehow try and justify anything else at this point.


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## UberXpert2020 (Jun 12, 2015)

eltakasaaiya said:


> Very much agree with you. I have seen my country people bargaining at walmart. WTF.


--WHAT??? Bargaining @ Walmart?? LOL


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

D Town said:


> Wow. Now you're just throwing logic and reason out the widow because you've been proven wrong. No where in the LAW - which isn't anything any driver "made up" does it say, "Well if someone BELIEVES they have a right to do what the hell they want in your property then its okay." No. What the LAW - not me, not Uber, not Joe Blow driver - is clear: Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) *A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another*
> 
> *(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.*
> 
> See that second part there? That pretty clearly covers the whole you HAD permission then the owner revoked it part. I'm mystified how you can somehow try and justify anything else at this point.


Judges look at BOTH sides in a court case. They consider arguments made by both the Plaintiff and the Defendant. Your argument is entirely one sided, that of the driver. I don't disagree with anything you are saying in your argument. The risk that I am preaching about here is that despite the driver's argument side being rock solid, judges and juries can still side with the rider if their lawyer is better than the driver's lawyer, because a good case can be made that the rider had a right to be in the car... and all it takes for the driver and their lawyer to get their asses handed to them is for the riders lawyer to be more convincing to the judge and jury. The best thing drivers can do is avoid anything that could possibly result in the issue going to court, because that is where the risk exists.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Judges look at BOTH sides in a court case. They consider arguments made by both the Plaintiff and the Defendant. Your argument is entirely one sided, that of the driver. I don't disagree with anything you are saying in your argument. The risk that I am preaching about here is that despite the driver's argument side being rock solid, judges and juries can still side with the rider if their lawyer is better than the driver's lawyer, because a good case can be made that the rider had a right to be in the car... and all it takes for the driver and their lawyer to get their asses handed to them is for the riders lawyer to be more convincing to the judge and jury. The best thing drivers can do is avoid anything that could possibly result in the issue going to court, because that is where the risk exists.


If you want to go THAT broad then ALL drivers are screwed since literally ANYTHING can have you in court. I'm not joking or being sarcastic. ANYONE can drag ANYONE ELSE into civil court.

http://www.universalhub.com/node/28192

Civil courts are clogged with plenty of frivolous cases that get thrown out since ANYONE can file a case if their willing to fork over the $200.00 fee. If you tell someone to get the f*** out of your car and they refuse and you drive them to a police station while calling the cops the odds of you having CRIMINAL charges brought against you is so infinitesimally small as to not be worth mentioning. Even less to convince a judge or jury of the same thing. I would be FAR more worried a pax might stab me through the back seat or shoot me or I might get in a wreak or hell that I might get struck by lightening on entering or exiting my vehicle. Those are all FAR more likely.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

D Town said:


> If you want to go THAT broad then ALL drivers are screwed since literally ANYTHING can have you in court. I'm not joking or being sarcastic. ANYONE can drag ANYONE ELSE into civil court.
> 
> http://www.universalhub.com/node/28192
> 
> Civil courts are clogged with plenty of frivolous cases that get thrown out since ANYONE can file a case if their willing to fork over the $200.00 fee. If you tell someone to get the f*** out of your car and they refuse and you drive them to a police station while calling the cops the odds of you having CRIMINAL charges brought against you is so infinitesimally small as to not be worth mentioning. Even less to convince a judge or jury of the same thing. I would be FAR more worried a pax might stab me through the back seat or shoot me or I might get in a wreak or hell that I might get struck by lightening on entering or exiting my vehicle. Those are all FAR more likely.


I agree completely! If you feel in danger, call 911. If not, call the police and let them handle it. Engaging in a verbal exchange, or a physical exchange, or driving them somewhere they don't want to go are all likely to aggravate the situation and put you in danger that did not exist before. Don't aggravate the situation. That's dangerous.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> I agree completely! If you feel in danger, call 911. If not, call the police and let them handle it. Engaging in a verbal exchange, or a physical exchange, or driving them somewhere they don't want to go are all likely to aggravate the situation and put you in danger that did not exist before. Don't aggravate the situation. That's dangerous.


No, no. I AM driving them someplace they likely don't want to go. The nearest police station. If at any point during the course of our journey they express a desire to get out I will pull over and let them out. Otherwise to the police we go to resolve the issue. If they damage my property or attack me while we drive my dash camera will have all the evidence I need to back up WHY I stomped a mud puddle into their behinds and walked it dry.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

D Town said:


> *No, no. I AM driving them someplace they likely don't want to go.* The nearest police station. If at any point during the course of our journey they express a desire to get out I will pull over and let them out. Otherwise to the police we go to resolve the issue. If they damage my property or attack me while we drive my dash camera will have all the evidence I need to back up WHY I stomped a mud puddle into their behinds and walked it dry.


Good luck with that. I hope and pray you don't get shot or stabbed en route.


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## Stratos (Jun 3, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> It *might* be in your best interest to stop trying to compare a business like Dominos or a bar/restaurant to an Uber ride. They are not the same. Those businesses do not sit around waiting for someone to say 'hey can you provide me a service', replying with 'sure', and then entering an agreement to provide the service. I know it seems like it's the same thing - but it's not.
> 
> You *might* afford yourself some measure of 'authority' by placing a notice in your car that reads:
> "We reserve the right to cancel our agreement with you and end this ride at any time"


You might want to re-read what Fuzzyelvis wrote:

Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:

The part about other vehicle applies to anyone's vehicle in the State of Texas where both Fuzzyelvis and I live. To tell us we are wrong and have to abide by Ohio's law when Fuzzy clearly states he is talking about TEXAS show that you did not actually read what he wrote.


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## Stratos (Jun 3, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis. Talk with your boss at dominos in regards to penal codes 30.06 and 30.07. With the change of open carry laws 30.06 has a few re-writes to it and 30.07 will be posted by DPS via a hyper-link some time after Sept. Laws go into effect Jan 1. 2016. I got off the phone with DPS about 2hrs ago in regards to this for my full time work place.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Good luck with that. I hope and pray you don't get shot or stabbed en route.


If someone is going to shoot or stab me for involving the police then it doesn't matter WHERE I am or if I'm moving. If I'm with someone THAT violent then their going to slit my throat and take my car just for calling the police.

Driving strangers is dangerous. Don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise or that taking measures to protect and/or stand up for yourself are somehow "asking for trouble". If you're honestly that worried I'd suggest not driving. You're going to get hurt.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

D Town said:


> Wow. Now you're just throwing logic and reason out the widow because you've been proven wrong. No where in the LAW - which isn't anything any driver "made up" - does it say, "Well if someone BELIEVES they have a right to do what the hell they want in your property then its okay."


I never said it was "ok" - I said JOURNALIZED LAW (that's a called a precedent) says it's not criminal trespassing.
You believe what ever your feelings tell you.
I'll believe my attorney.
No harm, no foul.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Stratos said:


> You might want to re-read what Fuzzyelvis wrote:
> 
> Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:
> 
> The part about other vehicle applies to anyone's vehicle in the State of Texas where both Fuzzyelvis and I live. To tell us we are wrong and have to abide by Ohio's law when Fuzzy clearly states he is talking about TEXAS show that you did not actually read what he wrote.


Ohio law is the same as Texas on what constitutes criminal trespass. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911.21


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> II never said it was "ok" - I said JOURNALIZED LAW (that's a called a precedent) says it's not criminal trespassing.
> You believe what ever your feelings tell you.
> I'll believe my attorney.
> No harm, no foul.


I'm not believing my feelings I'm believing the law and all the cops sitting in the police substation not 20 feet from me. I'd get a new lawyer.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

D Town said:


> Ohio law is the same as Texas on what constitutes criminal trespass. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2911.21


If that's true, it means that your 100% on the 'criminal trespass' issue. 
But I doubt Texas and Ohio laws are identical (similar, probably - identical, no) - 
and of course, Ohio CASE LAW is completely different than TX.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

D Town said:


> I'm not believing my feelings I'm believing the law and all the cops sitting in the police substation not 20 feet from me. I'd get a new lawyer.


Ha - yeah, that's ain't going to happen considering his creds...
If I were you, I'd stop getting legal advice from cops.
nothing against cops, but 
a) they are not lawyers (FAR from it) and 
b) they do not represent your best interest​
ok? Are we done?


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

D Town said:


> If someone is going to shoot or stab me for involving the police then it doesn't matter WHERE I am or if I'm moving. If I'm with someone THAT violent then their going to slit my throat and take my car just for calling the police.
> 
> Driving strangers is dangerous. Don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise or that taking measures to protect and/or stand up for yourself are somehow "asking for trouble". If you're honestly that worried I'd suggest not driving. You're going to get hurt.


Driving strangers is dangerous... which is why I'm advising how to handle this situation in the method that is least likely to result in the driver getting hurt. You've already made up your mind that it doesn't matter how you handle it. I can't help you if you've already made up your mind in that regard. Hopefully someone reading this will learn that it does matter how you handle it.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Ha - yeah, that's ain't going to happen considering his creds...
> If I were you, I'd stop getting legal advice from cops.
> nothing against cops, but
> a) they are not lawyers (FAR from it) and
> ...


Yes we are done.



UberHammer said:


> Driving strangers is dangerous... which is why I'm advising how to handle this situation in the method that is least likely to result in the driver getting hurt. You've already made up your mind that it doesn't matter how you handle it. I can't help you if you've already made up your mind in that regard. Hopefully someone reading this will learn that it does matter how you handle it.


I said it doesn't matter how you handle it? Okay if we're just making up the other guys arguments then...No sir! Despite the fact that YOU believe I have to give sexual favors to an irate pax or risk getting killed I am NOT going to be doing THAT.

I've experienced police response times in my area. I've sat and waited for HOURS on weekend nights for cops to come find me at established businesses for things ranging in seriousness from trespass to having had someone shoot at me. I am NOT going to spend hours at an address range with an unruly a$$ hat on God only knows what. It DOES matter how you handle it. It'd be stupid to threaten them with bodily harm. You engage them in a firm yet calm manner telling them that you will NOT be taking them to their destination and if they do not leave your vehicle then the next stop will be the police station. Never raise your voice or lose your cool but do NOT sit like a target waiting for cops to arrive to a location quicker than this pax's drunken friends. History and good sense tell me that's a bad idea.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

D Town said:


> Yes we are done.
> 
> I said it doesn't matter how you handle it? Okay if we're just making up the other guys arguments then...No sir! Despite the fact that YOU believe I have to give sexual favors to an irate pax or risk getting killed I am NOT going to be doing THAT.
> 
> I've experienced police response times in my area. I've sat and waited for HOURS on weekend nights for cops to come find me at established businesses for things ranging in seriousness from trespass to having had someone shoot at me. I am NOT going to spend hours at an address range with an unruly a$$ hat on God only knows what. It DOES matter how you handle it. It'd be stupid to threaten them with bodily harm. You engage them in a firm yet calm manner telling them that you will NOT be taking them to their destination and if they do not leave your vehicle then the next stop will be the police station. Never raise your voice or lose your cool but do NOT sit like a target waiting for cops to arrive to a location quicker than this pax's drunken friends. History and good sense tell me that's a bad idea.


I'm not "making up the other guys argument".

You said "If someone is going to shoot or stab me for involving the police *then it doesn't matter* WHERE I am *or if I'm moving*. If I'm with someone THAT violent then their going to slit my throat and take my car just for calling the police."

LIke I said before, good luck driving the guy to the police station. I hope and pray you don't get hurt by that decision in how you chose to handle it.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> I'm not "making up the other guys argument".
> 
> You said "If someone is going to shoot or stab me for involving the police *then it doesn't matter* WHERE I am *or if I'm moving*. If I'm with someone THAT violent then their going to slit my throat and take my car just for calling the police."
> 
> LIke I said before, good luck driving the guy to the police station. I hope and pray you don't get hurt by that decision in how you chose to handle it.


Except for the continued difference of opinion on 'criminal trespass' - 
and what that implies as to a driver's right to "self-defense/castle principle, etc." - 
I think we all agree that flying off the handle, escalating a situation and physically assaulting a pax will all result in the same thing: 
1*.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

D Town said:


> Yes we are done.


whew... I can go back to enjoying your posts - completely comfortable that we disagree on this issue of law.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

D Town said:


> I am NOT going to spend hours at an address range with an unruly a$$ hat on God only knows what. It DOES matter how you handle it.


I *think* we can all agree that every situation is unique -
and that as long as we (the driver) keep a cool head,
that we can usually tell the difference between an a$$ hat we've just had it with (and tell to leave)
and a nut case that we either have to get away from -
or drive to a police station.

Drive smart - don't put yourself at risk -
and never give a passenger the excuse they need to file a complaint with the police which can bring charges against you.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> I'm not "making up the other guys argument".
> 
> You said "If someone is going to shoot or stab me for involving the police *then it doesn't matter* WHERE I am *or if I'm moving*. If I'm with someone THAT violent then their going to slit my throat and take my car just for calling the police."
> 
> LIke I said before, good luck driving the guy to the police station. I hope and pray you don't get hurt by that decision in how you chose to handle it.


I wonder if you're deliberately choosing to construe my arguments in a certain way...

Saying that a nut job who is inclined to stabbing individuals will stab you whether you call the police and sit in a secluded location or drive to a police station is not the same thing as saying it doesn't matter HOW you handle a belligerent a-hole.

Do tell me what exactly the increased risk is? In both instances the cops are going to be involved. Make it clear he/she can get out at any time so there is no element of feeling trapped. The only thing you do is take them away from their home turf where they may have friends handy who could walk over and make your life a little more...interesting we'll say. Sitting in one spot does NOT stop you from getting assaulted.

http://abc7ny.com/news/search-for-teens-who-beat-uber-driver-in-brooklyn/808123/

http://www.cbs46.com/story/28626156/uber-driver-says-he-was-attacked-called-racial-slurs

Tell me how moving closer to likely help and moving THEM out of their area of control more dangerous?


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

D Town said:


> I wonder if you're deliberately choosing to construe my arguments in a certain way...
> 
> Saying that a nut job who is inclined to stabbing individuals will stab you whether you call the police and sit in a secluded location or drive to a police station is not the same thing as saying it doesn't matter HOW you handle a belligerent a-hole.
> 
> ...


Give the person as little as possible to respond to. Anything you give the person to respond to INCREASES risk of either aggravating the situation, getting you deactivated, or getting you dragged into court. So say as little as possible, and do as little as possible. Call the police and let them handle it. If you sense danger, then call 911. If you honestly think this is a "home turf" situation, with "friends handy", then that is more than enough reason to call 911. I on the other hand don't service neighborhoods like that.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

GlavanizeR said:


> So, last night I have this about 40 year old woman who enters the car and throws some bags angrily on the floor and ask me to wait, because she is waiting for the rest. Then her family shows up, which is consisted of two 30 lbs kids, a 120 lbs husband and an angry indian grandma, who upon entering my car starts hitting my front seat, so that it moves back(I keep my seat pulled max to the front, so it can be comfortable for the **********).
> 
> I look at them and I tell them there is no way that I take 5, with 2 under 5-6 year old kids. Then we start the well known argument with the "but the other driver had no problem" BS. After a 4 min time waste I ask them to leave the car and that I am not going anywhere.
> 
> ...


you should NEVER threaten or manhandle anyone, the proper response would be to tell them you are calling the police , proceed to do so if they don't leave your car. yes, you could be deactivated for this so we shall see. you have the right to eject people from your car if the circumstance warrants it, but you have to do it responsibly. if they still don't leave and a police car has been dispatched trust me you have to wait and eat the loss of time or try to flag one that might be passing by I've done this before back in my taxi driving days.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Now if OP was a tiny Granny or Grandad what would have been the best course of action?

Guilt him out if the car?

Cut cheese big time?

Give him "the look"?

These UberSenior drivers are going to need out advice.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Give the person as little as possible to respond to. Anything you give the person to respond to INCREASES risk of either aggravating the situation, getting you deactivated, or getting you dragged into court. So say as little as possible, and do as little as possible. Call the police and let them handle it. If you sense danger, then call 911. If you honestly think this is a "home turf" situation, with "friends handy", then that is more than enough reason to call 911. I on the other hand don't service neighborhoods like that.


This is the mentality that's part of the problem. You think absolute passivity is the key to your safety. It isn't. Nothing is more attractive to a predator than someone who isn't going to fight back. At this point I'm beating my head against a wall though so do what you will. Oh, and I'm not sure what neighborhoods you think I'm referring to but I highly doubt you avoid every bar, every hotel, every college, every convention, every concert, and every event where groups of people may decide to go out as a group. Those are who I was referring to and if you believe those groups aren't capable of turning on you you're in for a world of hurt one day. I'm out and stay safe.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> ...or try to flag one that might be passing by I've done this before back in my taxi driving days.


reminds of Ernie reaching out the window and banging the side of his taxi, calling for Bert the cop in It's A Wonderful Life...


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Thank god for the ignore function. Sheesh!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> It *might* be in your best interest to stop trying to compare a business like Dominos or a bar/restaurant to an Uber ride. They are not the same. Those businesses do not sit around waiting for someone to say 'hey can you provide me a service', replying with 'sure', and then entering an agreement to provide the service. I know it seems like it's the same thing - but it's not.
> 
> You *might* afford yourself some measure of 'authority' by placing a notice in your car that reads:
> "We reserve the right to cancel our agreement with you and end this ride at any time"


If someone goes online and orders a pizza and then shows up I would say they have as much of a "reasonable expectation" of being served as a rider with uber. In fact they may have even PAID already. But if they act like a dick they can still be told to leave and that their order will be cancelled and they DO need to leave or the police will be called and they will be removed and possibly arrested or given a ticket.

This is at a public business where they have possibly even paid already. You seem to think we have less rights in our own cars than an employee at a Dominos.

The TX statute very clearly states it is criminal trespass once the person has been told to leave. What occurred previous to that is irrelevant.

Come to TX, act like an ass in an uber. Refuse to leave when the driver tells you to get out and assuming he only calls the police on you see what happens when they arrive.

BTW the first words out of the cops mouth may well be "You're lucky he/she didn't shoot you."

I'm not arguing whether this is right or wrong. But that's how it is here.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Except for the continued difference of opinion on 'criminal trespass' -
> and what that implies as to a driver's right to "self-defense/castle principle, etc." -
> I think we all agree that flying off the handle, escalating a situation and physically assaulting a pax will all result in the same thing:
> 1*.


I think if I'm at the point of kicking someone out of my vehicle I've already decided getting 1*d is inevitable.

And yes, staying calm and not escalating things is the best thing to do. But I have kicked people out of my car before and will likely do it again.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

newsboy559 said:


> Lawsuit? The vehicle is his property and at that point, the man is trespassing. He had every right to throw the man out by force. There will be no lawsuit.


You can't have it both ways... offering your car for hire and then claiming trespassing when you accept a ride request. You are wrong on the legal point of trespassing.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

You


Fuzzyelvis said:


> If someone goes online and orders a pizza and then shows up I would say they have as much of a "reasonable expectation" of being served as a rider with uber. In fact they may have even PAID already. But if they act like a dick they can still be told to leave and that their order will be cancelled and they DO need to leave or the police will be called and they will be removed and possibly arrested or given a ticket.
> 
> This is at a public business where they have possibly even paid already. You seem to think we have less rights in our own cars than an employee at a Dominos.
> 
> ...


You are taking the line out of context... great for conversation and when trying to make a point, but not much use in the reality of a situation... or in court.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I think if I'm at the point of kicking someone out of my vehicle I've already decided getting 1*d is inevitable.


It was a joke.


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

GlavanizeR said:


> So, last night I have this about 40 year old woman who enters the car and throws some bags angrily on the floor and ask me to wait, because she is waiting for the rest. Then her family shows up, which is consisted of two 30 lbs kids, a 120 lbs husband and an angry indian grandma, who upon entering my car starts hitting my front seat, so that it moves back(I keep my seat pulled max to the front, so it can be comfortable for the **********).
> 
> I look at them and I tell them there is no way that I take 5, with 2 under 5-6 year old kids. Then we start the well known argument with the "but the other driver had no problem" BS. After a 4 min time waste I ask them to leave the car and that I am not going anywhere.
> 
> ...


You did the right think next time tell him your neck coming out the car you might want to follow


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

Micmac said:


> Now do you have the right to bounce pax from your car?


It his car


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

Once the rider get rude from now on I pull over safe place and tell them to get the **** out.They are going rate you bad any way if they are being rude might as well deserve that one star


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## Wisecrackin MN (Mar 29, 2015)

I carry pepper spray in case I'm attacked. Thankfully I've never needed to use it. But getting out and calling 911 sounds like the best advise to me.


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