# I’m a software engineer at Uber and I’m voting against Prop 22



## Asruf (Dec 24, 2019)

Kurt Nelson is a mobile engineer at Uber based in San Francisco. These are his personal views.
I've been a software engineer at Uber for two years, and I've also been a ride-hail driver. I regularly drove for Lyft in college, and while my day job involves writing code for the Uber Android app, I still make deliveries for app-based companies on my bike to understand the state of the gig economy.

These experiences have made me realize a crucial factor in the gig economy: Uber works because it's cheap and it's quick. The instant gratification when we book a ride and a car shows up only minutes later gives us a sense of control. It's the most convenient thing in the world to go to your friend's house, the grocery store or the airport at the click of a button.

But it's become clear to me that this is only possible because countless drivers are spending their personal time sitting in their cars, waiting to pick up a ride, completely unpaid. Workers are subsidizing the product with their free labor.

I've decided to speak out against my employer because I know what it's like to work with no benefits. Before joining Uber, I worked a range of low-wage jobs from customer service at Disneyland to delivering pizza with no benefits. Uber is one of several large companies bankrolling California's Proposition 22. They've now contributed $47.5 million dollars to the campaign. At work, management tells us that passing Prop 22 is for the best because it is critical for the company's bottom line. Yet, a corporation's bottom line will not and should not influence my vote.

Uber claims Prop 22 would be good for drivers, but that depends on Uber the company treating drivers better. I know from my experience working as an Uber engineer there is a slim chance of that happening. At the beginning of the pandemic, we learned Uber was about to embark on a round of layoffs. For weeks we sat around not knowing if we'd keep our jobs and health insurance.

Ultimately the company laid off 3,500 workers in the middle of a pandemic, and they did it via a three-minute Zoom call. For many of us, the layoffs seemed random and arbitrary, as if managers had been given a quota of people they should fire, not dissimilar to the way in which Uber deactivates drivers without recourse. The entrenched culture of not caring about workers had extended to engineers. We realized we too are a fungible resource.

As a software engineer, I have a very different experience working for Uber than drivers do. Being classified as an employee affords me benefits including healthcare, a retirement plan, stock vesting and the ability to take paid vacation and sick leave. Uber drivers are not afforded these benefits, since Uber misclassifies them as independent contractors. Since January 1 of this year, the law has been clear: Gig drivers should be classified as employees. Yet Uber refuses to obey the law and is now seeking to get Prop 22 passed so they can write a new set of rules for themselves.

There's a misconception that all Uber drivers are part-time. Maybe they drive as a fun hobby in retirement or pick up a few hours after class in college, as I did. These drivers exist, but the drivers who are essential to Uber's business are full-time workers. A study commissioned by the city of San Francisco released in May found that 71% of the city's gig drivers work at least 30 hours per week. It is these drivers who give the majority of the rides. California legally requires employers to provide benefits to all workers working at least 30 hours per week, so 71% of daily drivers are currently denied benefits required by the state.

Were it not for my background as a Lyft driver, I would have accepted my employer's argument at face value. This was never about disrupting an industry; their business model is the same as any other company's - cut costs no matter what in order to increase profits. I've been lucky to meet some of Uber's fantastic drivers while organizing with the advocacy organization Gig Workers Rising. Everyone knows about the high cost of living in San Francisco - these folks are often trying to make do on less than minimum wage. I've met drivers who have to sleep in their cars, risk financial ruin over a single doctor's appointment or go without life-saving medication. There's no way around it, Uber's Prop 22 is a multimillion dollar effort to deny these workers their rights.

My message to other tech workers and to the public at large is this: Research ballot propositions on your own. When your employer tells you to vote for something because it's what is best for the company, consider that your employer's interests might not align with your own, or with society's.

To employees at Uber, Lyft, DoorDash or other gig economy companies: Get to know the drivers who use your product every day. In many ways, we have more in common with these workers than we do with the executives making millions from our labor.

In November, you will have a choice to either stand with other workers and vote no on Prop 22, or align yourself with executives and billionaires by voting yes.

Stand with workers - vote no on Prop 22.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/06/im-a-software-engineer-at-uber-im-voting-against-prop-22/amp/


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Sounds like he’s competing for a promotion, and his coding skills aren’t that great.


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## Asruf (Dec 24, 2019)

I know,one of the guy who worked as senior programmer at Uber for 5 years, he layoffs in 3 minutes zoom meeting call. He told me before that layoff,he burned out a lot and he wanted to travel couple of years.. He’s lucky that he got a lot money from Uber before quitting) So you need to be lucky sometime...


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

Doesn't matter even if 100% of Uber drivers voted "YES". Since it is in the hand of residence of CA voters, number of drivers will not count. Most of residence will vote "YES" for the help of heir commutes. 
It is what it is.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Asruf said:


> Kurt Nelson is a mobile engineer at Uber based in San Francisco. These are his personal views.
> I've been a software engineer at Uber for two years, and I've also been a ride-hail driver. I regularly drove for Lyft in college, and while my day job involves writing code for the Uber Android app, I still make deliveries for app-based companies on my bike to understand the state of the gig economy.
> 
> These experiences have made me realize a crucial factor in the gig economy: Uber works because it's cheap and it's quick. The instant gratification when we book a ride and a car shows up only minutes later gives us a sense of control. It's the most convenient thing in the world to go to your friend's house, the grocery store or the airport at the click of a button.
> ...


Drivers not only invest their Unpaid Time
Drivers invest their vehicles
Their gasoline
In Uber.
For Constantly DIMINISHING RETURNS !

" NO NEED TO TIP " !


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

All that drivel and not a word about AB5 is 'better' than Prop 22. Huh.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

SMH, All we want to know is what the app is going to do after the vote and the first of the year. Nothing else matters.

Sort a like, we just want to get from point A to B. :roflmao:

Surely you guys got code written for all scenario's already right ?


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Asruf said:


> I know,one of the guy who worked as senior programmer at Uber for 5 years, he layoffs in 3 minutes zoom meeting call. He told me before that layoff,he burned out a lot and he wanted to travel couple of years.. He's lucky that he got a lot money from Uber before quitting:smiles So you need to be lucky sometime...


I think Uber can compare with Amazon about work/life balance. The folks at these companies work 50-60hours.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Asruf said:


> He's lucky that he got a lot money from Uber before quitting


Your friend never quitted, he was terminated.

And you know were he got those "a lot of money" from? Is in the article you posted at the end of the third paragraph - "Workers are subsidizing the product with their free labor." So he is not lucky. He was one of the Uber employees that were looking the other way (as opposed to the author of the posted article), taking advantage of the fact that Uber continuously and systematically abused its "partners" now pretends wants to protect and help.

Great post.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

MikhailCA said:


> I think Uber can compare with Amazon about work/life balance. The folks at these companies work 50-60hours.


But you will get deactivated a lot soon at Amazon.


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> But you will get deactivated a lot soon at Amazon.


I'm talking about full time employees, all these tech companies(not all of them) screwing not only contractors drivers/warehouse workers but asking it's programmers work extra like 70hours or more. 
On average people work for these companies only for 2 years after that they are cannot do it anymore.


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## UberApfel (Jul 5, 2020)

If I were a California resident, I would vote yes after reading this, just to watch it all burn. If Uber endorsed this horseshit; all the better.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

MikhailCA said:


> I think Uber can compare with Amazon about work/life balance. The folks at these companies work 50-60hours.


As do most professionals who make a six figure salary.

Next article title:

*I'm I was a software engineer at Uber*


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Seamus said:


> As do most professionals who make a six figure salary.


Yup.
I'm there.
AND its a job I like.

But, I'm tired.
Down deep, bone type tired.

Chasing problems: putting out fires, soothing nervous investors/bosses, being a parent to employees, dealing with government licensing agencies (about five of them), internal audits, external audits, scheduling delivery of perishable materials. Our well went dry last week, so now we're buying storage tanks and getting water delivered.
One thing after another.
Never ends.

Haven't had a day off since Christmas.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

MikhailCA said:


> I'm talking about full time employees, all these tech companies(not all of them) screwing not only contractors drivers/warehouse workers but asking it's programmers work extra like 70hours or more.
> On average people work for these companies only for 2 years after that they are cannot do it anymore.


And now you know why tech companies love cheap foreign slaves under H-1B...


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Fusion_LUser said:


> And now you know why tech companies love cheap foreign slaves under H-1B...


Yep, those H1b folks destroying the job market in this country(nothing personal but they are making the life harder for the rest of us) pretty much they are willing to work 80-100 hours for the same salary just to stay in this country.

I hope Trump/Coronavirus will solve this kind of immigration.


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## Asruf (Dec 24, 2019)

MikhailCA said:


> Yep, those H1b folks destroying the job market in this country(nothing personal but they are making the life harder for the rest of us) pretty much they are willing to work 80-100 hours for the same salary just to stay in this country.
> 
> I hope Trump/Coronavirus will solve this kind of immigration.


Don't forget,the America made great by immigrants.. Even your parents might be immigrants like me...If you're gonna blame someone then blame the corporations and billionaires.. Because they first moved out all companies from here to China to make more money with cheap labors and products, secondly they need people to work them like a slave.. We're all modern slaves for those companies...google,facebook,uber etc just name it all white and blue collar workers them like slaves in this century.I'm not Republican but I support and vote for Trump because he's nationalist like me and he wants to bring those companies from China.. The capitalism screwed up because the corporations and billionaires invested to china and created a monster and this monster cannot stop so far... 
When I started to drive with Uber in 2014 i was making between $500-$1000 in 20-30 hours... Can you make it now with same hours? No! Because this greedy company force you to work more same amount of money... It's same as hb1 visa works.. Microsoft, facebook, google etc,force white collar people(h1b visa holders) to work 60-100 hours for same little money.. If you don't accept to work then they bring other people from India or China who wants to work 60-100 hours for the less money.. It's same for Uber drivers.. if you don't want it then they hire desperate drivers to less money, I saw a screenshot here,one of the driver made $2 with 2 orders.. This is insulting the drivers for me... If i get $2 for an order,i swear to god,i will be homeless..Because if i were homeless i would be less stressful than driving for $2. That's why, prob 22 NO for those greedy companies...This corona virus supposed to change something and start with those greedy companies and billionaires... Capitalism is falling and nationalism is risen... This is valid for all over the world and countries...Capitalism make just corporations and billionaires rich and richer yet...I hope that this will change after corona virus...This cannot be sustained anymore...


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Asruf said:


> Don't forget,the America made great by immigrants.. Even your parents might be immigrants like me...If you're gonna blame someone then blame the corporations and billionaires.. Because they first moved out all companies from here to China to make more money with cheap labors and products, secondly they need people to work them like a slave.. We're all modern slaves for those companies...google,facebook,uber etc just name it all white and blue collar workers them like slaves in this century.I'm not Republican but I support and vote for Trump because he's nationalist like me and he wants to bring those companies from China.. The capitalism screwed up because the corporations and billionaires invested to china and created a monster and this monster cannot stop so far...
> When I started to drive with Uber in 2014 i was making between $500-$1000 in 20-30 hours... Can you make it now with same hours? No! Because this greedy company force you to work more same amount of money... It's same as hb1 visa works.. Microsoft, facebook, google etc,force white collar people(h1b visa holders) to work 60-100 hours for same little money.. If you don't accept to work then they bring other people from India or China who wants to work 60-100 hours for the less money.. It's same for Uber drivers.. if you don't want it then they hire desperate drivers to less money, I saw a screenshot here,one of the driver made $2 with 2 orders.. This is insulting the drivers for me... If i get $2 for an order,i swear to god,i will be homeless..Because if i were homeless i would be less stressful than driving for $2. That's why, prob 22 NO for those greedy companies...This corona virus supposed to change something and start with those greedy companies and billionaires... Capitalism is falling and nationalism is risen... This is valid for all over the world and countries...Capitalism make just corporations and billionaires rich and richer yet...I hope that this will change after corona virus...This cannot be sustained anymore...


Those people aren't immigrants( they aren't eligible to stay in this country without this job). Just a workforce, wrong comparison.


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## Cereal Killer (Aug 10, 2020)

Thats nice. Lakers in 5.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Seamus said:


> As do most professionals who make a six figure salary.
> 
> Next article title:
> 
> *I'm I was a software engineer at Uber*


And possibly he'll be relying on that food delivery gig full time again! Maybe driving for Lyft too!



MikhailCA said:


> Those people aren't immigrants( they aren't eligible to stay in this country without this job). Just a workforce, wrong comparison.


If they work here long enough, they can apply for residency. Or if they can get married to someone here. Being here on a work visa is a path to citizenship.


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## deplorable1 (Apr 14, 2018)

Asruf said:


> Kurt Nelson is a mobile engineer at Uber based in San Francisco. These are his personal views.
> I've been a software engineer at Uber for two years, and I've also been a ride-hail driver. I regularly drove for Lyft in college, and while my day job involves writing code for the Uber Android app, I still make deliveries for app-based companies on my bike to understand the state of the gig economy.
> 
> These experiences have made me realize a crucial factor in the gig economy: Uber works because it's cheap and it's quick. The instant gratification when we book a ride and a car shows up only minutes later gives us a sense of control. It's the most convenient thing in the world to go to your friend's house, the grocery store or the airport at the click of a button.
> ...


Nobody is forcing anybody to drive. You don't like what your paid, QUIT! We all knew what the benefits were before we started this job. Driver sleep in their cars because they can't afford rent in overregulated California... so the solution is more regulations and government intervention!? That s*** doesn't work in a free country. California is nothing but a bunch of petulant, entitled , whiny little b*****


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Asruf said:


> Kurt Nelson is a mobile engineer at Uber based in San Francisco. These are his personal views.
> I've been a software engineer at Uber for two years, and I've also been a ride-hail driver. I regularly drove for Lyft in college, and while my day job involves writing code for the Uber Android app, I still make deliveries for app-based companies on my bike to understand the state of the gig economy.
> 
> These experiences have made me realize a crucial factor in the gig economy: Uber works because it's cheap and it's quick. The instant gratification when we book a ride and a car shows up only minutes later gives us a sense of control. It's the most convenient thing in the world to go to your friend's house, the grocery store or the airport at the click of a button.
> ...


This is nonsense. The vast majority of UBer drivers are part time, and are attracted to the gig economy because of the freedom it allows, they can work the shifts around there specific needs, like when they have to pick up a kid from school, attend conferences, this that and the other. The attraction of the gig job, the 'side hustle' is a trade for the benefits of a wage job, which is usually afforded on another job that they hold.

Vote YES on 22. We don't need 'employee benefits' when the 'why' of our doing a side hustle is the beauty of no bosses, schedules, or someone dictating which trip we have to take, or where we have to work. With a gig job, we have those freedoms. It's a trade we are willing to make.

You want to help gig drivers? Let us KEEP our IC status, and give us a union so we can collectively bargain for higher per mile and per minute rates. If the politicians want to better our lives, give us a union.


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## The Mobile Notary 1592 (Sep 26, 2020)

Oscar Levant said:


> This is nonsense. The vast majority of UBer drivers are part time, and are attracted to the gig economy because of the freedom it allows, they can work the shifts around there specific needs, like when they have to pick up a kid from school, attend conferences, this that and the other. The attraction of the gig job, the 'side hustle' is a trade for the benefits of a wage job, which is usually afforded on another job that they hold.
> 
> Vote YES on 22. We don't need 'employee benefits' when the 'why' of our doing a side hustle is the beauty of no bosses, schedules, or someone dictating which trip we have to take, or where we have to work. With a gig job, we have those freedoms. It's a trade we are willing to make.
> 
> You want to help gig drivers? Let us KEEP our IC status, and give us a union so we can collectively bargain for higher per mile and per minute rates. If the politicians want to better our lives, give us a union.


Y'all are funny, you want to drive part time thinking Uber is gonna make you rich. What make you think that part timers won't get cut under Prop 22?


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

Oscar Levant said:


> The vast majority of UBer drivers are part time, and are attracted to the gig economy because of the freedom it allows, they can work the shifts around there specific needs, like when they have to pick up a kid from school, attend conferences, this that and the other.


 I used to be a W2 driver, lost it due to Covid but i always worked like part time. It wasn't my choice. The business worked that way. Couple scheduled trips in the morning and couple later at night. Of course we kept in with touch with office for last minute rides but it didn't stop me to pick my kid from school. Why is Uber is not offering the same pre-scheduled trips? Are you able to negotiate your rate as a IC or select your rides in advance? If not you are not really a contractor. You're just an employee without having the legal framework.


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## The Mobile Notary 1592 (Sep 26, 2020)

sasu66 said:


> I used to be a W2 driver, lost it due to Covid but i always worked like part time. It wasn't my choice. The business worked that way. Couple scheduled trips in the morning and couple later at night. Of course we kept in with touch with office for last minute rides but it didn't stop me to pick my kid from school. Why is Uber is not offering the same pre-scheduled trips? Are you able to negotiate your rate as a IC or select your rides in advance? If not you are not really a contractor. You're just an employee without having the legal framework.


Say it louder for the folks in the back!!!!!!


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Asruf said:


> Don't forget,the America made great by immigrants.. Even your parents might be immigrants like me...If you're gonna blame someone then blame the corporations and billionaires.. Because they first moved out all companies from here to China to make more money with cheap labors and products, secondly they need people to work them like a slave.. We're all modern slaves for those companies...google,facebook,uber etc just name it all white and blue collar workers them like slaves in this century.I'm not Republican but I support and vote for Trump because he's nationalist like me and he wants to bring those companies from China.. The capitalism screwed up because the corporations and billionaires invested to china and created a monster and this monster cannot stop so far...
> When I started to drive with Uber in 2014 i was making between $500-$1000 in 20-30 hours... Can you make it now with same hours? No! Because this greedy company force you to work more same amount of money... It's same as hb1 visa works.. Microsoft, facebook, google etc,force white collar people(h1b visa holders) to work 60-100 hours for same little money.. If you don't accept to work then they bring other people from India or China who wants to work 60-100 hours for the less money.. It's same for Uber drivers.. if you don't want it then they hire desperate drivers to less money, I saw a screenshot here,one of the driver made $2 with 2 orders.. This is insulting the drivers for me... If i get $2 for an order,i swear to god,i will be homeless..Because if i were homeless i would be less stressful than driving for $2. That's why, prob 22 NO for those greedy companies...This corona virus supposed to change something and start with those greedy companies and billionaires... Capitalism is falling and nationalism is risen... This is valid for all over the world and countries...Capitalism make just corporations and billionaires rich and richer yet...I hope that this will change after corona virus...This cannot be sustained anymore...


Surprising why so many Uber/Lyft IC will accept unprofitable requests? I guess if you made this a full time endeavour than you have no choice but to grind your car into the ground for Peanuts???? Part time drivers can definitely be more choosey and only driver at profitable hours, but with such low rates its impossible to make money without surge or a surge multiplier that you can set. No more rides for cheapos now.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

The Mobile Notary 1592 said:


> What make you think that part timers won't get cut under Prop 22?


under AB5 maybe, but Prop 22? Explain that opinion. Oh, please.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> Drivers not only invest their Unpaid Time
> Drivers invest their vehicles
> Their gasoline
> In Uber.
> ...


That no need to tip comment is


Asruf said:


> Kurt Nelson is a mobile engineer at Uber based in San Francisco. These are his personal views.
> I've been a software engineer at Uber for two years, and I've also been a ride-hail driver. I regularly drove for Lyft in college, and while my day job involves writing code for the Uber Android app, I still make deliveries for app-based companies on my bike to understand the state of the gig economy.
> 
> These experiences have made me realize a crucial factor in the gig economy: Uber works because it's cheap and it's quick. The instant gratification when we book a ride and a car shows up only minutes later gives us a sense of control. It's the most convenient thing in the world to go to your friend's house, the grocery store or the airport at the click of a button.
> ...





Asruf said:


> Don't forget,the America made great by immigrants.. Even your parents might be immigrants like me...If you're gonna blame someone then blame the corporations and billionaires.. Because they first moved out all companies from here to China to make more money with cheap labors and products, secondly they need people to work them like a slave.. We're all modern slaves for those companies...google,facebook,uber etc just name it all white and blue collar workers them like slaves in this century.I'm not Republican but I support and vote for Trump because he's nationalist like me and he wants to bring those companies from China.. The capitalism screwed up because the corporations and billionaires invested to china and created a monster and this monster cannot stop so far...
> When I started to drive with Uber in 2014 i was making between $500-$1000 in 20-30 hours... Can you make it now with same hours? No! Because this greedy company force you to work more same amount of money... It's same as hb1 visa works.. Microsoft, facebook, google etc,force white collar people(h1b visa holders) to work 60-100 hours for same little money.. If you don't accept to work then they bring other people from India or China who wants to work 60-100 hours for the less money.. It's same for Uber drivers.. if you don't want it then they hire desperate drivers to less money, I saw a screenshot here,one of the driver made $2 with 2 orders.. This is insulting the drivers for me... If i get $2 for an order,i swear to god,i will be homeless..Because if i were homeless i would be less stressful than driving for $2. That's why, prob 22 NO for those greedy companies...This corona virus supposed to change something and start with those greedy companies and billionaires... Capitalism is falling and nationalism is risen... This is valid for all over the world and countries...Capitalism make just corporations and billionaires rich and richer yet...I hope that this will change after corona virus...This cannot be sustained anymore...


The USA is all about the American Dream.
Equal opportunity for all.
Not equal results.
However, numerous groups have been denied equal opportunity.
Let's make America great, by allowing everyone and anybody to rise to their best abilities without regard to anything except ambition and talent.
By the way, .CA residents, vote YES on prop. 22.
AB5 will condemn us to part time, minimum wage labor.



Asruf said:


> Kurt Nelson is a mobile engineer at Uber based in San Francisco. These are his personal views.
> I've been a software engineer at Uber for two years, and I've also been a ride-hail driver. I regularly drove for Lyft in college, and while my day job involves writing code for the Uber Android app, I still make deliveries for app-based companies on my bike to understand the state of the gig economy.
> 
> These experiences have made me realize a crucial factor in the gig economy: Uber works because it's cheap and it's quick. The instant gratification when we book a ride and a car shows up only minutes later gives us a sense of control. It's the most convenient thing in the world to go to your friend's house, the grocery store or the airport at the click of a button.
> ...


Another wage slave complaining about their situation.
If prop. 22 fails, we will all be part time, minimum wage employees of these despicable gig app companies. Think about it. We will be exactly treated as an employee's.
The algorithm determining your hours from 12:01 am till 4:00 am. Further, the algo assigns you to Compton and Lynwood in the wee hours of the morning. And on and on and on. Permission for time off. Fired for not accepting every offer. Fired for cause so no access to unemployment insurance.
Who in their right mind would want to be an employee of these despicable companies?
CA voters; vote YES on prop. 22. The lesser of evils.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Asruf said:


> Kurt Nelson is a mobile engineer at Uber based in San Francisco. These are his personal views.
> 
> This engineer is an entitled and uninformed Karen.
> He is disgusted because he was an employee of Uber.
> ...


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

sasu66 said:


> I used to be a W2 driver, lost it due to Covid but i always worked like part time. It wasn't my choice. The business worked that way. Couple scheduled trips in the morning and couple later at night. Of course we kept in with touch with office for last minute rides but it didn't stop me to pick my kid from school. Why is Uber is not offering the same pre-scheduled trips? Are you able to negotiate your rate as a IC or select your rides in advance? If not you are not really a contractor. You're just an employee without having the legal framework.


That may be true, but as W-2, I imagine we would have less freedom than we have as IC.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Oscar Levant said:


> That may be true, but as W-2, I imagine we would have less freedom than we have as IC.


Agreed. Freedom as a contractor or following the employee rules of the malicious gig app employers.

Vote YES on prop. 22. The lesser of evils.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

And now Kurt Nelson is a full time delivery bike rider after uber fired him for non-compliance.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

Oscar Levant said:


> I imagine we would have less freedom than we have as IC.


 IC claim is an absolute lie to escape paying payroll taxes and force slavery wages. Uber cannot hide behind this cover anymore. What stops Uber from offering the freedom, flexibility, destination info, price, surge multiplier and drive pass?


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> IC claim is an absolute lie to escape paying payroll taxes and force slavery wages. Uber cannot hide behind this cover anymore. What stops Uber from offering the freedom, flexibility, destination info, price, surge multiplier and drive pass?


I pay my taxes as a contractor in accordance with the IRS and California Franchise Tax Board.

Force slavery wages? Simply delete the app from your phone. Problem solved.

Nothing stops Uber from offering the items you describe. Nothing prevents them from offering the items you describe.

Adapt. Overcome. Grind. Evaluate. Be your own boss. Be profitable.

Or become a part time, minimum wage employee.

Vote YES on prop. 22. The lesser of evils.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> Nothing prevents them from offering the items you describe.


 Uber attorney says, the items were offered as "limited flexibility". Why limited? Why not permanent?

"During the hearing Tuesday, Uber sought to create some daylight between itself from rival Lyft, arguing that it had enacted changes that gave drivers independence such as allowing them *limited flexibility to set their own prices* and allowing riders to request trips with a specific driver."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/13/uber-lyft-ab5/#comments-wrapper


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> Uber attorney says, the items were offered as "limited flexibility". Why limited? Why not permanent?
> 
> "During the hearing Tuesday, Uber sought to create some daylight between itself from rival Lyft, arguing that it had enacted changes that gave drivers independence such as allowing them *limited flexibility to set their own prices* and allowing riders to request trips with a specific driver."
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/13/uber-lyft-ab5/#comments-wrapper


Adapt. Overcome. Use multiple apps.
Anything is better than being an employee of these malicious apps. 
Tens of thousands of drivers deliver for PostMates. They have none of the information you described.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> Adapt. Overcome. Use multiple apps.


 Instead of telling me what to do, just answer my question.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> Instead of telling me what to do, just answer my question.


Ok. Sure. For which question do you want an aanswer?



sasu66 said:


> Instead of telling me what to do, just answer my question.


Limited flexibility instead of permanent flexibility? Is that your question?


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Sounds like he's competing for a promotion, and his coding skills aren't that great.


Doesn't take much to code at Uber, as Larry put it: my cat could have done a better job.


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## Asruf (Dec 24, 2019)

*Uber is hiring hundreds of engineers in India to cut costs...Uber recently laid off many white collar people in USA.*

This company doesn't care blue or white collar employees.. They just focus to generate more money with cheap labor and products... American people not important how they live here...It's not added value to America or American people... That's why we say NO to Prop 22...

Uber said on Thursday it is working to hire 225 engineers in India, strengthening its tech team in the key overseas market months after it eliminated thousands of jobs globally.

The ride-hailing firm, which competes with Ola in India, said today it has hired Manikandan Thangarathnam, who spent nearly 13 years as a director of engineering at Amazon, to lead the company's rider and platform engineering teams in Bangalore. (Last month, Uber announced it would hire 140 engineers in India. Today it said it was in the process of hiring an additional 85 engineers.)

The move comes as several high-profile engineers have left Uber India in recent months to join Google and Amazon among other tech giants. A senior engineer, who recently left Uber, told TechCrunch that many of his peers had lost confidence in Uber's future prospects in the country.

Uber said its tech expansion plans in India were in line with its vision to make mobility and delivery "more accessible" and becoming the "backbone" of transportation in thousands of cities across the globe.

The company recently also hired Jayaram Valliyur as a senior director to lead its global finance technology team. Prior to this role, Jayaram, too, worked at Amazon, where he spent 14 years.

In July, news outlet The Information described Uber chief executive Dara Khosrowshahi's plan to move engineering roles to India as a cost saving measure. The report said Khosrowshahi's plan had sparked internal debates.

Thuan Pham, Uber's longtime chief technology officer, who left the company earlier this year, reportedly cautioned that hiring more engineers so quickly in India would "require accepting lower-quality candidates."

Uber and Ola both claim to be the No. 1 ride-hailing service in India. But Rajeev Misra, the chief of SoftBank Vision Fund which is a common investor in both the companies, said last month that Ola maintained a "small lead" over Uber in India.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/15/uber-is-hiring-hundreds-of-engineers-in-india-to-cut-costs/amp/


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Asruf said:


> *Uber is hiring hundreds of engineers in India to cut costs...Uber recently laid off many white collar people in USA.*
> 
> This company doesn't care blue or white collar employees.. They just focus to generate more money with cheap labor and products... American people not important how they live here...It's not added value to America or American people... That's why we say NO to Prop 22...
> 
> ...


25-30 million in savings going straight to EPS....Don't worry, all the politicians have shares in these tech companies and most have cashed out.. They are all anti corporations while cashing out through the back door... Harvey Weinstein was a huge women's rights fella and all these politicians friends with him.. &#128516;


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

sasu66 said:


> I used to be a W2 driver, lost it due to Covid but i always worked like part time. It wasn't my choice. The business worked that way. Couple scheduled trips in the morning and couple later at night. Of course we kept in with touch with office for last minute rides but it didn't stop me to pick my kid from school. Why is Uber is not offering the same pre-scheduled trips? Are you able to negotiate your rate as a IC or select your rides in advance? If not you are not really a contractor. You're just an employee without having the legal framework.


Your able to set your own rates in California, and your free to pick and choose which rides you want and don't want. Uber does have pre-scheduling but not a system where the driver can pick it up when it's scheduled, lyft does actually have this feature where a driver can claim the ride in advance


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

NicFit said:


> Your able to set your own rates in California, and your free to pick and choose which rides you want and don't want. Uber does have pre-scheduling but not a system where the driver can pick it up when it's scheduled, lyft does actually have this feature where a driver can claim the ride in advance


 Sorry to break your dreams but Prop 22 does not include any of those. 
https://vig.cdn.sos.ca.gov/2020/general/pdf/topl-prop22.pdf


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> Sorry to break your dreams but Prop 22 does not include any of those.
> https://vig.cdn.sos.ca.gov/2020/general/pdf/topl-prop22.pdf


Maybe.
But neither does AB5.
Vote YES on prop. 22. The lesser of evils.
Freedom as a contractor, (prop. 22) or part time, minimum wage employment, (AB5.)


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

Asruf said:


> A senior engineer, who recently left Uber, told TechCrunch that many of his peers had lost confidence in Uber's future prospects in the country.


 Uber is a toast. They have lost much credibility and also trust over this. Difficult to recover.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

sasu66 said:


> Sorry to break your dreams but Prop 22 does not include any of those.
> https://vig.cdn.sos.ca.gov/2020/general/pdf/topl-prop22.pdf


It's already what I have, Prop 22 will make sure it doesn't go away










And Prop 22 is what the minimum is, not what the maximum you can earn, under AB5 you will get an hourly wage and that's it, no more 75/25 fare split, no surge and no bonuses










Prop 22 won't fix everything but AB5 is garbage


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## The Mobile Notary 1592 (Sep 26, 2020)

I should add that the first of many No on Prop 22 television adds have aired on ABC.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

The Mobile Notary 1592 said:


> I should add that the first of many No on Prop 22 television adds have aired on ABC.


If you are no longer in the rideshare/delivery business, STFU, go away and be an idiot in a new forum. I am guessing you will be ridiculed in any forum.



The Mobile Notary 1592 said:


> I should add that the first of many No on Prop 22 television adds have aired on ABC.


Are you a driver?



sasu66 said:


> Uber is a toast. They have lost much credibility and also trust over this. Difficult to recover.


Are you a driver?


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## The Mobile Notary 1592 (Sep 26, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> Are you a driver?


Who's gon make me boo?


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

The Mobile Notary 1592 said:


> Who's gon make me boo?


Good luck talking to adults like an infant.


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## The Mobile Notary 1592 (Sep 26, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> Good luck talking to adults like an infant.


You sound pressed, you have no good argument to support Yes on Prop 22.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

The Mobile Notary 1592 said:


> You sound pressed, you have no good argument to support Yes on Prop 22.


He does, it's called not wanting to be a wage slave, you will get maybe $18 an hour, have to work when and where they want and accept all requests. You think you don't like Uber now, what's your worse ride you know you can avoid? Uber will force you to take it over and over until you quit. Don't like the drunk shift? Too bad. Don't like the airport ques? Too bad. They will tell you where you have to work when they want you to. You want Christmas and thanksgiving off? Hahahahaha, too bad your working those days. Better figure out what the lesser of the two evils is before it's too late, yes Prop 22 doesn't fix everything but once it fails there won't be a second chance, you will have to commit to one app and hope they hire you, only 20-30% will be having jobs if Prop 22 fails, you think you can make the cut?


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## The Mobile Notary 1592 (Sep 26, 2020)

NicFit said:


> He does, it's called not wanting to be a wage slave, you will get maybe $18 an hour, have to work when and where they want and accept all requests. You think you don't like Uber now, what's your worse ride you know you can avoid? Uber will force you to take it over and over until you quit. Don't like the drunk shift? Too bad. Don't like the airport ques? Too bad. They will tell you where you have to work when they want you to. You want Christmas and thanksgiving off? Hahahahaha, too bad your working those days. Better figure out what the lesser of the two evils is before it's too late, yes Prop 22 doesn't fix everything but once it fails there won't be a second chance, you will have to commit to one app and hope they hire you, only 20-30% will be having jobs if Prop 22 fails, you think you can make the cut?


Like you said, if Prop 22 passes, quit, if it fails, quit, why would you wanna still work harder for money when they're gonna reduce your pay under 22? It's stupid as hell to call yourself a flexible worker when you're not making enough $$$.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

The Mobile Notary 1592 said:


> Like you said, if Prop 22 passes, quit, if it fails, quit, why would you wanna still work harder for money when they're gonna reduce your pay under 22? It's stupid as hell to call yourself a flexible worker when you're not making enough $$$.


Why would I quit is it passes? They won't lower your pay if it passes, only if it fails. You gotta look at the list a little harder















What this line means is that with Prop 22 you can still get 75/25 fare splits, surges and bonuses, without it you get a constant wage. What this means is with AB5 is you will be paid $18 an hour and that's it, with Prop 22 they will let you make whatever money you can, I average $30 an hour and sometimes up to and over $100 an hour. What Prop 22 does is make sure while your on there call you make at least a minimum wage, I imagine the only time it kicks in is when you take a long distance pick up and then get a short fare or when they want to be time wasters like slow load and unload and drive thrus, but most normal trips Prop 22 shouldn't kick in much. They will pass the extra cost to the customer on that trip and no where do they have to lower pay with Prop 22. They knew how to write Prop 22 so it means hardly any costs out of there pockets, the drivers and the riders shouldn't change much, if anything they may have to bump up the riders cost a little so they can cover it all, but then that means driver pay goes up since they have to follow the 75/25 split, though that does mean slight decrease in demand but it should n't be much. Prop 22 can also be reworked, if it fails we don't get a second chance, take the lesser of the two evils and vote yes on Prop 22


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## The Mobile Notary 1592 (Sep 26, 2020)

NicFit said:


> Why would I quit is it passes? They won't lower your pay if it passes, only if it fails. You gotta look at the list a little harder
> View attachment 515847
> 
> View attachment 515849
> What this line means is that with Prop 22 you can still get 75/25 fare splits, surges and bonuses, without it you get a constant wage. What this means is with AB5 is you will be paid $18 an hour and that's it, with Prop 22 they will let you make whatever money you can, I average $30 an hour and sometimes up to and over $100 an hour. What Prop 22 does is make sure while your on there call you make at least a minimum wage, I imagine the only time it kicks in is when you take a long distance pick up and then get a short fare or when they want to be time wasters like slow load and unload and drive thrus, but most normal trips Prop 22 shouldn't kick in much. They will pass the extra cost to the customer on that trip and no where do they have to lower pay with Prop 22. They knew how to write Prop 22 so it means hardly any costs out of there pockets, the drivers and the riders shouldn't change much, if anything they may have to bump up the riders cost a little so they can cover it all, but then that means driver pay goes up since they have to follow the 75/25 split, though that does mean slight decrease in demand but it should n't be much. Prop 22 can also be reworked, if it fails we don't get a second chance, take the lesser of the two evils and vote yes on Prop 22


Prop 22 doesn't repeal AB-5, and it ensure $18 on top of what you make per miles and time, the lesser evil is No on Prop 22, get a discussion going between drivers and Uber, and meet in the middle, remember, without drivers, there's no Uber nor Lyft.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

The Mobile Notary 1592 said:


> Prop 22 doesn't repeal AB-5, and it ensure $18 on top of what you make per miles and time, the lesser evil is No on Prop 22, get a discussion going between drivers and Uber, and meet in the middle, remember, without drivers, there's no Uber nor Lyft.


No, that's not how Prop 22 works, it ensures a minimum of 18 an hour, but it doesn't work unless the fare is lower then $18 an hour. If your fare is more then $18 an hour then you won't see anything from Prop 22. They take a 2 week average and if you don't meet the minimums then they pay you extra, if you exceed the amount you don't get any extra.









It also gives rideshare an exception from AB5, I won't see anything from Prop 22, I average $30 an hour, but it ensures I still make $30 an hour, with AB5 all I will get is 120% minimum wage, nothing more


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

The Mobile Notary 1592 said:


> Like you said, if Prop 22 passes, quit, if it fails, quit, why would you wanna still work harder for money when they're gonna reduce your pay under 22? It's stupid as hell to call yourself a flexible worker when you're not making enough $$$.


Seems your only solution is to quit. Seems you could not figure out how to be profitable and so you made the logical choice to quit. Good choice.

The profitable drivers do not want to be shackled as part time, minimum wage employees.

Prop. 22, while possibly despicable, is the only other option currently on the table outside of the horror of AB5.

VOTE YES on prop. 22, the lesser of evils.


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## The Mobile Notary 1592 (Sep 26, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> Seems your only solution is to quit. Seems you could not figure out how to be profitable and so you made the logical choice to quit. Good choice.
> 
> The profitable drivers do not want to be shackled as part time, minimum wage employees.
> 
> ...


It's despicable, but you'll back it, that's foolish but go ahead, you'll be crying when they go fully automated . You're talking about flexible jobs, the company is laying off it's HQ staff and executives and is outsourcing to pay to make investors and the CEO more $$$, yet you're okay working for less crumbs with more effort.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Asruf said:


> Kurt Nelson is a mobile engineer at Uber based in San Francisco. These are his personal views.
> I've been a software engineer at Uber for two years, and I've also been a ride-hail driver. I regularly drove for Lyft in college, and while my day job involves writing code for the Uber Android app, I still make deliveries for app-based companies on my bike to understand the state of the gig economy.
> 
> These experiences have made me realize a crucial factor in the gig economy: Uber works because it's cheap and it's quick. The instant gratification when we book a ride and a car shows up only minutes later gives us a sense of control. It's the most convenient thing in the world to go to your friend's house, the grocery store or the airport at the click of a button.
> ...


As a reminder, the original post was about an Uber employee that was so disgusted at being an employee of Uber that he is going to vote no on prop. 22.
He is so disgusted with being an employee that he wants all the profitable drivers to be employees.
What a fool.
Vote YES on prop. 22, the lesser of evils.



The Mobile Notary 1592 said:


> It's despicable, but you'll back it, that's foolish but go ahead, you'll be crying when they go fully automated :smiles:. You're talking about flexible jobs, the company is laying off it's HQ staff and executives and is outsourcing to pay to make investors and the CEO more $$$, yet you're okay working for less crumbs with more effort.


I am very profitable using the gig apps. I use four different apps.

Recently, I've had to revise my strategy and also my tactics in response to a global pandemic that is affecting my local markets.

Your rants are becoming more unfathomable.

Companies worldwide are laying off people due to the annoyance of a pandemic. Outsourcing HR and CS functions has been a matter of contention long before the gig apps appeared on the scene.

The only bread crumbs I use are to find my way back home when I, as a contractor, decide to shut down operations for the day.

By the way, I fully expect to be dead and buried before an automated vehicle can follow another car into a gated community when no gate code is provided.



The Mobile Notary 1592 said:


> It's despicable, but you'll back it, that's foolish but go ahead, you'll be crying when they go fully automated :smiles:. You're talking about flexible jobs, the company is laying off it's HQ staff and executives and is outsourcing to pay to make investors and the CEO more $$$, yet you're okay working for less crumbs with more effort.


What you gonna do when the housing and/or mortgage industries collapse? Seen it happen a few times, all the way back to the Savings & Loan debacle.
Unemployment insurance is generally not available for self employed persons.
Gonna try driving as a part time, minimum wage employee?

Vote YES on prop. 22, the lesser of evils.


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## The Mobile Notary 1592 (Sep 26, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> As a reminder, the original post was about an Uber employee that was so disgusted at being an employee of Uber that he is going to vote no on prop. 22.
> He is so disgusted with being an employee that he wants all the profitable drivers to be employees.
> What a fool.
> Vote YES on prop. 22, the lesser of evils.
> ...


Funny thing is, when it comes to housing, somebody is always buying, selling and refinancing, so there's income security, nice try though.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Great for you.



The Mobile Notary 1592 said:


> Funny thing is, when it comes to housing, somebody is always buying, selling and refinancing, so there's income security, nice try though.


Seems like you no longer have skin in the rideshare/delivery game. Why are you even posting?


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

Judge and Jury said:


> Maybe.
> But neither does AB5.
> Vote YES on prop. 22. The lesser of evils.
> Freedom as a contractor, (prop. 22) or part time, minimum wage employment, (AB5.)


Dream on son.

They didn't even bother saying they were gonna keep shit like it was to lie a little better.



Asruf said:


> Uber works because it's cheap and it's quick.


From Morton's to McDonald's, that was the goal... them burgers make more money, they also make everyone's lives a bit more miserable


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

sasu66 said:


> IC claim is an absolute lie to escape paying payroll taxes and force slavery wages. Uber cannot hide behind this cover anymore. What stops Uber from offering the freedom, flexibility, destination info, price, surge multiplier and drive pass?


In the 70s, I drove for Red & White Cab Co. in Hollywood as W-2. We had to work shifts. But, that's true for all cab companies, UNLESS you are an owner operator, or a 24/7 leasee, but W2 wasn't allowed for those.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

Oscar Levant said:


> In the 70s, I drove for Red & White Cab Co. in Hollywood as W-2. We had to work shifts. But, that's true for all cab companies, UNLESS you are an owner operator, or a 24/7 leasee, but W2 wasn't allowed for those.


 For your information i do know how cab companies, owner operators and W2 drivers work. That has nothing to do with my IC question. Again, what stops Uber from offering the same freedom, flexibility, destination info, price, surge multiplier and drive pass to its IC drivers?


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

sasu66 said:


> For your information i do know how cab companies, owner operators and W2 drivers work. That has nothing to do with my IC question. Again, what stops Uber from offering the same freedom, flexibility, destination info, price, surge multiplier and drive pass to its IC drivers?


If they pay by the hour as employee, they are not going to let you turn away trips, and are more likely to dictate where you will drive, and you will probably be assigned a shift. See, they have now a payroll department, and shifts keeps it from getting chaotic. And, if they pay you by the hour, they are not going to assign you near your house ( where they would be paying you to sit at home ). See what I mean? They will, however, pay you a mileage, but it will probably be only for paid miles, and not dead miles. Another thing, the won't be 'offering' you a trip, you'll just be assigned one.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

sasu66 said:


> For your information i do know how cab companies, owner operators and W2 drivers work. That has nothing to do with my IC question. Again, what stops Uber from offering the same freedom, flexibility, destination info, price, surge multiplier and drive pass to its IC drivers?


Uber has already said they won't give you any of that if they make drivers employees, here's a post straight from the app, notice that the earn as much as you want is not checked under employee, you will get an hourly wage and that's it


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

Oscar Levant said:


> See what I mean?


 Yes i see what you mean. You are trying to inject Soviet Union style scare tactics instead of answering my question: What stops Uber from offering the same flexibility, destination info, surge multiplier and drive pass?.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

sasu66 said:


> Yes i see what you mean. You are trying to inject Soviet Union style scare tactics instead of answering my question: What stops Uber from offering the same flexibility, destination info, surge multiplier and drive pass?.


Nothing stops them from retaining these features.
However, as an employee, these features are moot. You accept every task or are fired for cause.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Judge and Jury said:


> Nothing stops them from retaining these features.
> However, as an employee, these features are moot. You accept every task or are fired for cause.


It's mind boggling how delusional the minimum wage cheerleaders are. They all believe that as an employee they get to clock in when they want, work where they want, drive who they want and double or triple dip on the minimum wage wagon working multiple apps at once!

And that is assuming they get hired on in the first place!


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

lol no upper end on what you earn, that is funny as hell because in order to earn that much, events must happen (which are rare) or you must game the system which eventually gets you kicked out, lol, just look at your car's cost vs what you earn... the average is 11 bucks an hour minus your costs, so hacking or exploiting the system gets you 30 bucks an hour in most places... minus cost... okay you made some money, youll be out of uber soon because they keep an eye on money makers and will shut you down as soon as you make more than the standard, point being: most people make shit so being employees gives them an actual boost or something in return, including repairs which uber often calls wear and tear while refusing to pay, this does not exist as an employee, anything happens to your car and uber has to pay or you sue them, you no longer have to deal with the rider, just uber and we all know how uber loves to give away money.

Very few people understand that once Uber is an employer, they are basically renting your car, you no longer have to run with the cost.


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

The Entomologist said:


> lol no upper end on what you earn, that is funny as hell because in order to earn that much, events must happen (which are rare) or you must game the system which eventually gets you kicked out, lol, just look at your car's cost vs what you earn... the average is 11 bucks an hour minus your costs, so hacking or exploiting the system gets you 30 bucks an hour in most places... minus cost... okay you made some money, youll be out of uber soon because they keep an eye on money makers and will shut you down as soon as you make more than the standard, point being: most people make shit so being employees gives them an actual boost or something in return, including repairs which uber often calls wear and tear while refusing to pay, this does not exist as an employee, anything happens to your car and uber has to pay or you sue them, you no longer have to deal with the rider, just uber and we all know how uber loves to give away money.
> 
> Very few people understand that once Uber is an employer, they are basically renting your car, you no longer have to run with the cost.


$11 an hour average? You shouldn't be driving for that, without hacking or exploits or gaming the system or whatever else I make $30 an hour, and the events I can make $100+ an hour that are about every three days here pre-covid. Do yourself a favor and find something else, one thing Uber needs to stop doing is setting up in the boonies. There's a reason there aren't any cabs there, and Uber shouldn't be doing it either. They should raise the rates and cap the drivers there so it's not so crappy that you get $11 an hour. You should move to where a real market is, whatever that area is, it's a joke for rideshare


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

sasu66 said:


> Yes i see what you mean. You are trying to inject Soviet Union style scare tactics instead of answering my question: What stops Uber from offering the same flexibility, destination info, surge multiplier and drive pass?.


why should they? The ONLY reason they do is to create an incentive to attract drivers, and they have to do that beause they pay so cheap their turnover is high so they always need drivers ( the dynamic will change 180 degrees if W-2 ) and so they can avoid all the hassle of the extra book work, and associated higher costs of administering W-2 employees, it's not like they have a lot of competition that they need incentives to find drivers. Jobs with hourly wages always get more applications than commission jobs.

Soviet Union? Have you ever lived in the Soviet Union?

I didn't think so.

But, maybe you're right, maybe they'll offer those things.
I've been a W-2 for two different cab companies, in the 70s and one was 10 hour shift, with an hour break, the other was a 9 hour shift, with an half hour break. I had to be on the road at all times (during my shift ), and had to book X dollars, average, every day, or be fired. Book, was $55 bucks. If I didn't average it, I was fired, this was in 1977. See, I was allowed to turn down trips, but I didn't for fear of not making book. We had worker's comp, but we didn't have health insurance. If we didn't make book, we could switch to leasing, and then they didn't care what we booked. I eventually did that, and I found I made more. Paying by the hour takes all the fun out of it, really. But a cabbie can work the street, an Uber can't do that. I really have no idea what will happen. I have my doubts.

they will probably have some kind of bonuses,for productivity, but I doubt it will be that much. Uber thinks drivers get stoked over pocket change. It isn't now like it was when I started in 2013, when I did $500 every saturday night, and the surges were insane.

I've thinking about this. They'll have no choice but to raise rates to about what taxis are charging.

That means the customer base will shrink.

that means not everyone who has access to the platform will have it, there will be 'lay offs' or whatever the equivalent of that is.

Most drivers will have to work full time, and there won't be as many drivers available to drive, as I think most drivers are part time.

I don't think they are going to pay by the hour, though, in fact, they might pay commission with a $14 per hour gaurantee, that's my guess.

They will take taxes out, and you'll get a check sans taxes, which you will get refund at the end of the fiscal year.

The ONE big benefit is if they fire you, you can collect unemployment, but since it's not that much, it's not that big a deal.

They WILL have to pay you mileage for your car, (cab companies did not pay owner/operaters a mileage fee, but their rates were a lot higher ) but my guess it will only be for miles when a passenger is in the car, which is maybe 50% of the total miles you drive, maybe more. I don't know. That's about what paid miles were when I as a cab driver, but cabbies did a lot cruising for hail/pick ups. As an Uber you won't be doing that. so the paid mile ratio should be improved.

If this results in a much greater loss for Uber, they just might pull out, as they have threatened. They haven't committed to doing that yet, because they don't know how much they are going to make, or not make. But I think they will, for one big reason:

To send a message to other states who might be getting a similar idea.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> why should they? The ONLY reason they do is to create an incentive to attract drivers, and they have to do that beause they pay so cheap their turnover is high so they always need drivers ( the dynamic will change 180 degrees if W-2 ) and so they can avoid all the hassle of the extra book work, and associated higher costs of administering W-2 employees, it's not like they have a lot of competition that they need incentives to find drivers. Jobs with hourly wages always get more applications than commission jobs.
> 
> Soviet Union? Have you ever lived in the Soviet Union?
> 
> ...


The problem with sending a message to other states is California is Ubers largest market. It's like Uber putting a gun to its head and pulling the trigger and expecting other states to worry about what it's going to do next. Simply not happening. The market is still in California and someone else just moves in and services that market.


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## luckytown (Feb 11, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> This is nonsense. The vast majority of UBer drivers are part time, and are attracted to the gig economy because of the freedom it allows, they can work the shifts around there specific needs, like when they have to pick up a kid from school, attend conferences, this that and the other. The attraction of the gig job, the 'side hustle' is a trade for the benefits of a wage job, which is usually afforded on another job that they hold.
> 
> Vote YES on 22. We don't need 'employee benefits' when the 'why' of our doing a side hustle is the beauty of no bosses, schedules, or someone dictating which trip we have to take, or where we have to work. With a gig job, we have those freedoms. It's a trade we are willing to make.
> 
> You want to help gig drivers? Let us KEEP our IC status, and give us a union so we can collectively bargain for higher per mile and per minute rates. If the politicians want to better our lives, give us a union.


vote no...no....no...on prop 22...if you want to be a part time freelancer vote no.....there are two classiifications...employee or IC....drivers are neither....AB5 forces their hand to make you a true IC.....they will never make you employess...they will buckle and give in....


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

NicFit said:


> $11 an hour average? You shouldn't be driving for that, without hacking or exploits or gaming the system or whatever else I make $30 an hour, and the events I can make $100+ an hour that are about every three days here pre-covid. Do yourself a favor and find something else, one thing Uber needs to stop doing is setting up in the boonies. There's a reason there aren't any cabs there, and Uber shouldn't be doing it either. They should raise the rates and cap the drivers there so it's not so crappy that you get $11 an hour. You should move to where a real market is, whatever that area is, it's a joke for rideshare


11 bucks an hour is a national average, not what they pay you, this was studied a while back.

So yeah, no one should be doing Uber, you are absolutely right.


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## Skystar (Jun 8, 2020)

.
With all these complaints, got a great idea - QUIT!


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

luckytown said:


> vote no...no....no...on prop 22...if you want to be a part time freelancer vote no.....there are two classiifications...employee or IC....drivers are neither....AB5 forces their hand to make you a true IC.....they will never make you employess...they will buckle and give in....


You don't know that.



everythingsuber said:


> The problem with sending a message to other states is California is Ubers largest market. It's like Uber putting a gun to its head and pulling the trigger and expecting other states to worry about what it's going to do next. Simply not happening. The market is still in California and someone else just moves in and services that market.


Granted, it's a large market, but Uber is world wide. It's not as big as you might think, they can certainly live without CA.


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