# The Uber/Lyft Ballot Initiative Guarantees only $5.64 an Hour



## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initiative-guarantees-only-5-64-an-hour/

Uber, Lyft, and DoorDash have unveiled their ballot initiative to undo historic worker protections enshrined in AB5, California's new law that tightens the criteria for worker classification. The initiative claims drivers will receive a guaranteed pay equal to 120% of the minimum wage (that would be $15.60 in 2021, when the California minimum wage will be $13). Our review of the initiative leads to a very different estimate. *After considering multiple loopholes in the initiative, we estimate that the pay guarantee for Uber and Lyft drivers is actually the equivalent of a wage of $5.64 per hour. *Harry Truman was president the last time the inflation-adjusted value of the minimum wage was that low. Indeed, the real level of the pay guarantee is about one third of the required minimum pay for drivers under New York City's new driver pay standard.
Here are the loopholes that change the guarantee from $15.60 to $5.64 (see also the accompanying graphic):
*
1. Driver waiting time is not counted as work time*
The initiative's guarantee only applies when the drivers are engaged with passengers-when they are en route to picking up a passenger and when they have a passenger in their vehicle; these engaged times amount to only 67 percent of the drivers' working time. The companies would not pay for the approximately 33 percent of the time that drivers are waiting between passengers or returning from trips to outlying areas. But such time is a necessary part of drivers' work. Whether a driver wants to work one hour, eight hours, or any amount in between, they must wait between dropping off passengers and getting their next ride. Not paying for that time would be the equivalent of a fast food restaurant or retail store saying they will only pay the cashier when a customer is at the counter. We have labor and employment laws precisely to protect workers from that kind of exploitation.
Taking into account that the drivers would be paid only for 67 percent of all the time they are working, actual earnings per working hour would be 67 percent of $15.60, or $10.45.
*2. Unreimbursed costs of driving while waiting for a ride*
Much of the drivers' waiting time is spent driving and cruising. Drivers may be heading back from a drop off to an area where they are more likely to have a pick up, or they may be circling in downtown areas where there is no place to park. Under the companies' proposal, none of the costs (gas, wear and tear on the vehicle, etc.) of driving while waiting would be covered as reimbursed employee expenses. Uber drivers average 20 miles an hour. Therefore, they drive 6.6 miles each hour (33 percent of 20) that would not be reimbursed.
Multiplying the Internal Revenue Service mileage reimbursement rate of 58 cents a mile by 6.6 miles, we obtain $3.83 of unreimbursed expenses per hour of driving while waiting for a ride. $10.45 minus $3.83 leaves $6.62.
*3. Under-reimbursed costs during drivers' engaged driving time*
The ballot initiative says the drivers' cost of driving, during the time they are engaged with passengers, will be reimbursed at 30 cents per mile. But the IRS estimates that the real per mile costs of owning and operating a vehicle are 58 cents per mile. The initiative's lower figure assumes the drivers already have a vehicle and are driving just a few hours a week; it does not include all the fixed costs of acquiring, owning and operating a vehicle. Yet a small share of drivers, who work long hours, account for the vast majority of all drivers' miles-10 percent of transportation platform drivers account for about 57 percent of driver earnings. These drivers need to cover the fixed costs of owning and operating a vehicle.
According to the ballot initiative, Uber and Lyft would purchase insurance for drivers during the time they are engaged to pick up a passenger or have a passenger in their vehicle. Since insurance costs about 20 cents a mile, and again using the IRS 58 cents per mile standard, the initiative's offer of 50 cents per mile for costs and insurance still leaves drivers eight cents per mile short in covering their driving expenses when they are engaged with passengers.
We multiply the eight cents per mile deficit by the average 13.4 miles of engaged driving miles each hour. The result is $1.07 in under-reimbursed driving costs per working hour. Subtracting $1.07 from $6.62, we obtain $5.55.
*4. Health care stipend*
The companies would also offer a health care stipend to drivers who average at least 15 engaged hours a week in a quarter and who are enrolled in a qualifying health plan. Drivers averaging at least 15 but less than 25 engaged hours in a quarter would receive a stipend equivalent to 41 percent of the average premium for a Covered California Bronze plan; those working more than 25 engaged hours would receive a stipend equal to 82 percent of the same plan. The vast majority of drivers would not qualify for this benefit. To be consistent with our treatment of expenses, we include the value of the benefit for a 30 hour a week driver. We estimate the stipend for a 30 hour a week driver would average about $1.22 an hour (details available from the authors). Adding $1.22 to $5.55, we obtain an hourly pay level of $6.77.
*5. Unpaid payroll taxes and employee benefits*
Since the drivers would be classified as independent contractors, they would be required to pay both the employer and employees share of payroll taxes. And they would not receive paid rest breaks, paid meal breaks, paid sick leave, unemployment insurance, and other benefits required to be provided employees under state and federal law. The costs of these taxes and the value of those benefits together add up to about $1.13 per hour. Subtracting $1.13 from $6.77, we arrive at an hourly pay value of only $5.64 an hour.
This estimate may be too high, as it does not take into the account the cost of worker compensation insurance. Under the ballot initiative, companies would provide some occupational accident insurance, but at levels well below the protections required by California's laws for employees.









*Closing the door to higher standards*
The initiative would not only roll back the standards in AB5. It would also preclude local governments from enacting their own higher labor standards, such as those already proposed in Los Angeles and El Monte. Localities would not be permitted to set standards to govern compensation, scheduling, leave, healthcare, and termination of an app-based driver's contract. Similar policies are already in effect in New York City and under consideration in Seattle.
In addition, the initiative would require a 7/8 vote of the state legislature for future amendments. This is an unusually high requirement. Any desirable future changes in the law to respond to new technologies, or to comply with other California laws or policies, would need to be enacted by another ballot initiative.

*Caveats*
Our analysis applies only to the two transportation network companies (TNCs) - Uber and Lyft. We have not looked into what it would mean for delivery network companies like DoorDash, though many of the same considerations would apply. We have used the best available data to analyze the effects on the pay of TNC drivers. However, the companies have refused to make their own data public. For a complete analysis, the state needs much more data from the companies, including detailed data on wait times, hours worked, and earnings. The companies should provide that data in California, as they currently do in New York City, to allow for independent analysis so that voters are able to make informed choices. Finally, it is important to note that nothing in AB5 requires companies to reduce drivers' flexibility over the hours they work.

*Conclusions*
New York's pay standards, which went into effect in February of this year, show that drivers' earnings can be increased while preserving driver flexibility and maintaining service levels for customers. The companies have a choice over how they adjust to comply with California's laws protecting workers-or if they choose to fight those laws with a ballot initiative that would take pay standards back seventy years.
_Ken Jacobs is the Chair of the UC Berkeley Labor Center. Michael Reich is Professor of Economics, University of California, Berkeley and co-chair, Center on Wage and Employment Dynamics. He is a co-author of the report that led to a driver pay standard in New York City._
The Labor Center and the Center for Wage and Employment Dynamics (CWED) are both projects of the Institute for Research on Labor and Employment (IRLE) at UC Berkeley. IRLE connects world-class research with policy to improve workers' lives, communities, and society.



*UC BERKELEY LABOR CENTER BLOG*

*550,000 fewer California jobs projected under last-ditch GOP health bill in 2027*
by


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

While the irs may allow 58 cents per mile, if it actually costs you that much you are doing something wrong. So it always annoys me to see someone use that in an argument. Other than that, their analysis looks pretty good.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> While the irs may allow 58 cents per mile, if it actually costs you that much you are doing something wrong. So it always annoys me to see someone use that in an argument. Other than that, their analysis looks pretty good.


It's good to see someone actually looking through Ubers BS to get to reality.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> While the irs may allow 58 cents per mile, if it actually costs you that much you are doing something wrong. So it always annoys me to see someone use that in an argument. Other than that, their analysis looks pretty good.


True, for many it may be less than 58 cents per mile. But for analysis I don't see what else you could use. Costs per mile are highly variable depending on driver and car. Also throw in the fact that many drivers are notoriously bad at accounting for their true costs (insurance, repairs, etc etc). Despite the best efforts to educate, many drivers never get the concept that what you GET is not what you MAKE.

I agree the 58 cents figure can lead to skewed results in some cases but it's probably the most accurate standard barometer available.

Everyone by this point realizes Uber uses the smoke and mirror method of accounting. This analysis cuts through it. Thanks for posting OP


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Seamus said:


> True, for many it may be less than 58 cents per mile. But for analysis I don't see what else you could use. Costs per mile are highly variable depending on driver and car. Also throw in the fact that many drivers are notoriously bad at accounting for their true costs (insurance, repairs, etc etc). Despite the best efforts to educate, many drivers never get the concept that what you GET is not what you MAKE.
> 
> I agree the 58 cents figure can lead to skewed results in some cases but it's probably the most accurate standard barometer available.
> 
> Everyone by this point realizes Uber uses the smoke and mirror method of accounting. This analysis cuts through it. Thanks for posting OP


I can't argue with what you are saying, I've heard too many times, "I made x and only spent y on gas" and when you call them on it they say "I need a car anyway so it doesn't really cost anything" or some such magical thinking. Burr the IRS rates take into account people using luxury vehicles for business e.t.c... i bought my car before uber came to town so don't judge me but i was able to drive and destroy a brand new Toyota Avalon 178000 miles in 6 years and it cost me 29 cents a mile to operate all in. Had i done it properly with a used Prius or Corolla I'm sure i could be in the 20 cent a mile or below bracket.


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

The study also does not take into account:

1) unpaid hour worked in related tasks.

Accounting and tax filings.
Car inspections
Related municipal/airport permits and inspections
Fueling up
Car washes
Waiting at the automotive shop for tires/brakes/oil changes/shocks/small repairs
Filing accident reports and managing insurance claims
Handling formal complaints/inquiries from passengers or Uber
Visits to Green Light Centers
2) financial risks associated with owning the working vehicle

Insurance deductible
Time off for accident repair
Time off for major car repairs
Time off for replacing totaled vehicle
Cost of physical damage costing less than the deductible (clipped mirror/cracked tail light)
3) Personal risks

Injury or death
Family's loss of breadwinner
Lack of workers compensation
Workers compensation coverage is not health insurance.
*No deductibles
*No copay
*No coverage limits
Workers compensation provides:
Continuing income when a worker becomes disabled from a workplace injury.
100% reimbursement for related medical costs.
Therapy to enable the worker to resume their occupation as quickly as possible.
If a worker becomes permanently disabled, then re-training in another skill thereby enabling that worker to again support themselves.
Reimbursement for transportation costs to medical, therapy and training appointments.
If the disability is permanent, then a lump-sum is paid to the worker suffering and for the loss of that income ability.
Continuing death benefits for family survivors that last years after the accident.

Research on gig economy jobs has shown that unpaid hours represent about 20% of total hour worked.The gross figure of pay before expenses for independent contractors in the U.S. is published on the web and averages $47.00 per hour. Compare that to the claimed before expense earning of rideshare drivers. Even the average handyman charges between $60-65/hr and brings his own tools and drives themself to the job site.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

KevinH said:


> The study also does not take into account:
> 
> 1) unpaid hour worked in related tasks.
> 
> ...


Excellent points. Humans universally underestimate how much time it takes them to do things.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

KevinH said:


> The study also does not take into account:
> 
> 1) unpaid hour worked in related tasks.
> 
> ...


That sums it up perfectly. People at least in NY charging:

Plumber. $90 per hour
Boiler heating. $120 per hour
Electrical. $120 per hour

Ok some may argue correctly they are skilled labor rate.

Contractor/handy man. Various levels of skills possessed. No one will work for less than $480 per day.

Landscaping (cutting grass). Average $80 per hour (billable)

And people will be thrilled to get $15 per hour minus expenses?


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

KevinH said:


> http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initiative-guarantees-only-5-64-an-hour/
> 
> Uber, Lyft, and DoorDash have unveiled their ballot initiative to undo historic worker protections enshrined in AB5, California's new law that tightens the criteria for worker classification. The initiative claims drivers will receive a guaranteed pay equal to 120% of the minimum wage (that would be $15.60 in 2021, when the California minimum wage will be $13). Our review of the initiative leads to a very different estimate. *After considering multiple loopholes in the initiative, we estimate that the pay guarantee for Uber and Lyft drivers is actually the equivalent of a wage of $5.64 per hour. *Harry Truman was president the last time the inflation-adjusted value of the minimum wage was that low. Indeed, the real level of the pay guarantee is about one third of the required minimum pay for drivers under New York City's new driver pay standard.
> Here are the loopholes that change the guarantee from $15.60 to $5.64 (see also the accompanying graphic):
> ...


AB5 was never the gift driver's hoped for.

How could it be?
It's no secret Ridesharing spent tens of millions greasing the palms of politicians far too greedy to bite the hands that feed them.

How to resolve?
Driver's need to unify (STOP DRIVING) if only for a few days and stop waiting for do-nothing legislators.

Will it happen?
Absolutely not.
Drivers are too busy spinning their wheels.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

KevinH said:


> http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initiative-guarantees-only-5-64-an-hour/
> 
> Uber, Lyft, and DoorDash have unveiled their ballot initiative to undo historic worker protections enshrined in AB5, California's new law that tightens the criteria for worker classification. The initiative claims drivers will receive a guaranteed pay equal to 120% of the minimum wage (that would be $15.60 in 2021, when the California minimum wage will be $13). Our review of the initiative leads to a very different estimate. *After considering multiple loopholes in the initiative, we estimate that the pay guarantee for Uber and Lyft drivers is actually the equivalent of a wage of $5.64 per hour. *Harry Truman was president the last time the inflation-adjusted value of the minimum wage was that low. Indeed, the real level of the pay guarantee is about one third of the required minimum pay for drivers under New York City's new driver pay standard.
> Here are the loopholes that change the guarantee from $15.60 to $5.64 (see also the accompanying graphic):
> ...


Uberlyft has always ignored driver costs, claiming that revenue = earnings. Totally disingenuous, but Average Joe (including Average Uber Driver) does not know that this is wrong, let alone why it is wrong.

Excellent article on rideshare that contains accurate math - this is what we need, as opposed to the earlier faulty MIT-esque claims that we earn $2 per hour etc.


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I can't argue with what you are saying, I've heard too many times, "I made x and only spent y on gas" and when you call them on it they say "I need a car anyway so it doesn't really cost anything" or some such magical thinking. Burr the IRS rates take into account people using luxury vehicles for business e.t.c... i bought my car before uber came to town so don't judge me but i was able to drive and destroy a brand new Toyota Avalon 178000 miles in 6 years and it cost me 29 cents a mile to operate all in. Had i done it properly with a used Prius or Corolla I'm sure i could be in the 20 cent a mile or below bracket.


Very interested in your accounting and I want to ask about some details but do not want to challenge your accounting or the point of your post. It seems that your mileage breaks down to about 30K per year
.

Did you have any accidents with the vehicle?
Did you have to pay any insurance deductibles for damage or things like a chipped windshield, scratched bumper?
Did you have to pay for any physical damage not covered by insurance?
What was the state of the car's appearance at the end of the period? Any small dings, bumper crunches, etc.?
Did you have any major/substantial repairs? Shocks, struts, CV joints, tie rods, ****** etc.?
Stick shift or automatic?
Was the car sold at the 178K mark? If so what was the sales price and also initial purchase price? Did your accounting include the total value of all car payments or if you paid cash for the car new, how did you account for the cost of the funds. (Loss of interest or investment alternative)
Where was the car used for ridesharing? Urban/suburban/airports?
Did you do late night work, this is the most dangerous time period?
Did you notify your insurance carrier about your rideshare work and get a rider/policy modification to include rideshare coverage?
Was there any period when you let the physical damage and comprehensive insurance coverage drop because of the age or depreciated value of the car?
It is great to hear from an experienced driver that does good accounting and understands the ins and outs of driving for Uber/Lyft.


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## Jon77 (Dec 6, 2018)

IR12 said:


> AB5 was never the gift driver's hoped for.
> 
> How could it be?
> It's no secret Ridesharing spent tens of millions greasing the palms of politicians far too greedy to bite the hands that feed them.
> ...


That's not the details of AB5, that's Uber's counter offer, they are going to try to get this passed by voters in November, they have canvassers getting signatures for this proposal as we speak, if they gain enough signatures by the April deadline, than this monstrosity goes before the voters.

I just had a Lyft driver bring his car in for an oil change a few hours ago, he claimed he is making $1200 to $1400 a week on a regular basis.
He also wanted a tire rotation which we couldn't legally do, the wires were coming out of his tires.
Also we saw that his front brakes were down to 2 millimeters, safety hazard big-time.
He said that he couldn't afford tires or brakes at the moment....
Hummm, something smells fishy.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Jon77 said:


> That's not the details of AB5, that's Uber's counter offer, they are going to try to get this passed by voters in November, they have canvassers getting signatures for this proposal as we speak, if they gain enough signatures by the April deadline, than this monstrosity goes before the voters.
> 
> I just had a Lyft driver bring his car in for an oil change a few hours ago, he claimed he is making $1200 to $1400 a week on a regular basis.
> He also wanted a tire rotation which we couldn't legally do, the wires were coming out of his tires.
> ...


It's a Rideshare phenomenon that drivers will grossly over-exaggerate their earnings. What's the point.

Couple weeks ago I was talking to a Lyft driver who was so full of shyt it was dripping out his mouth. I didn't tell him I drove. Tells me he gets a minimum of $100 each airport run (reality it pays 35 to 45). By the way, in NYC suburbs we aren't allowed to pick up at the airport or anywhere else in NYC. Therefore you have to deadmile back and pay an expensive bridge toll out of your own pocket. He ends up with about $18 after expenses and ties himself up for minimum of 3 hours going and coming in traffic! Why would anyone take that ride?

Then he tells me almost every ride he gets a $20 tip. It was very hard not to laugh.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

IR12 said:


> Drivers are too busy spinning their wheels.


Haaaaaa! I see what you did there....


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

KevinH said:


> http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initiative-guarantees-only-5-64-an-hour/
> 
> Uber, Lyft, and DoorDash have unveiled their ballot initiative to undo historic worker protections enshrined in AB5, California's new law that tightens the criteria for worker classification. The initiative claims drivers will receive a guaranteed pay equal to 120% of the minimum wage (that would be $15.60 in 2021, when the California minimum wage will be $13). Our review of the initiative leads to a very different estimate. *After considering multiple loopholes in the initiative, we estimate that the pay guarantee for Uber and Lyft drivers is actually the equivalent of a wage of $5.64 per hour. *Harry Truman was president the last time the inflation-adjusted value of the minimum wage was that low. Indeed, the real level of the pay guarantee is about one third of the required minimum pay for drivers under New York City's new driver pay standard.
> Here are the loopholes that change the guarantee from $15.60 to $5.64 (see also the accompanying graphic):
> ...


OOPS . . .

THOUGHT YOU WROTE

" UBER LYFT BAILOUT " !

ALREADY ???


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## jeanocelot (Sep 2, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I can't argue with what you are saying, I've heard too many times, "I made x and only spent y on gas" and when you call them on it they say "I need a car anyway so it doesn't really cost anything" or some such magical thinking. Burr the IRS rates take into account people using luxury vehicles for business e.t.c... i bought my car before uber came to town so don't judge me but i was able to drive and destroy a brand new Toyota Avalon 178000 miles in 6 years and it cost me 29 cents a mile to operate all in. Had i done it properly with a used Prius or Corolla I'm sure i could be in the 20 cent a mile or below bracket.


There is something to be said that there is a "carport" depreciation that is in effect even if the car is not being driven at all that is the complement of the driving cost, and U/L could make the case that the only cost to their ants is the driving cost.



Seamus said:


> That sums it up perfectly. People at least in NY charging:
> 
> Plumber. $90 per hour
> Boiler heating. $120 per hour
> ...


And a plumber only has to encounter feces/urine/vomit/semen/saliva in the commode or hot tub.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

jeanocelot said:


> U/L could make the case that the only cost to their ants is the driving cost.


Unlikely. Uberlyft avoids any and all mention of driver costs. They pretend that they do not exist, and that revenue = earnings. This is true of all of their literature and descriptors throughout all of their published material including their website, their app, their press releases and statements.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Looks like the fallout to AB5 has finally gone official


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## UberBud (Aug 8, 2016)

"these engaged times amount to only 67 percent of the drivers' working time. The companies would not pay for the approximately 33 percent of the time that drivers are waiting between passengers or returning from trips to outlying areas."
I spend far more time idle than this. It is no longer uncommon to average less than one ride per hour even when including min fares that take less than 15 mins and are probably not actually profitable to do in the first place.

In any event, who here thought that Uber would propose something that benefited drivers? Nothing they have ever done has been for drivers.


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## simont23 (Jul 24, 2019)

KevinH said:


> http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initiative-guarantees-only-5-64-an-hour/
> 
> Uber, Lyft, and DoorDash have unveiled their ballot initiative to undo historic worker protections enshrined in AB5, California's new law that tightens the criteria for worker classification. The initiative claims drivers will receive a guaranteed pay equal to 120% of the minimum wage (that would be $15.60 in 2021, when the California minimum wage will be $13). Our review of the initiative leads to a very different estimate. *After considering multiple loopholes in the initiative, we estimate that the pay guarantee for Uber and Lyft drivers is actually the equivalent of a wage of $5.64 per hour. *Harry Truman was president the last time the inflation-adjusted value of the minimum wage was that low. Indeed, the real level of the pay guarantee is about one third of the required minimum pay for drivers under New York City's new driver pay standard.
> Here are the loopholes that change the guarantee from $15.60 to $5.64 (see also the accompanying graphic):
> ...


That is why we hand out our personal business cards to get direct business from our clients, increase our share of the hourly rate, and eliminate the Uber middle men.


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## AngelAdams (Jan 21, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> While the irs may allow 58 cents per mile, if it actually costs you that much you are doing something wrong. So it always annoys me to see someone use that in an argument. Other than that, their analysis looks pretty good.


That's the average. You average things out when you go national. The government never ultra high balls anything other than military contracts. So don't fight the number, fight your mentality of "them"


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

AngelAdams said:


> That's the average. You average things out when you go national. The government never ultra high balls anything other than military contracts. So don't fight the number, fight your mentality of "them"


I mean it's high relative to a Corrola hybrid, but it's low relative to a Cadillac Escalade.

Both vehicles have merits for use in this industry, (if your market has Select/SUV/XL the Caddy isn't as crazy as you might think)

For a while (like 4 years ago) i was considering shelling out for a brand new Caddy to uber with. If the rates are where they used to be i'd reconsider it.


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## AngelAdams (Jan 21, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I mean it's high relative to a Corrola hybrid, but it's low relative to a Cadillac Escalade.
> 
> Both vehicles have merits for use in this industry, (if your market has Select/SUV/XL the Caddy isn't as crazy as you might think)
> 
> For a while (like 4 years ago) i was considering shelling out for a brand new Caddy to uber with. If the rates are where they used to be i'd reconsider it.


Best, believe it or not, is Base Model 3.


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Jon77 said:


> He said that he couldn't afford tires or brakes at the moment....
> Hummm, something smells fishy.


Two words: hookers and blow


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

simont23 said:


> That is why we hand out our personal business cards to get direct business from our clients, increase our share of the hourly rate, and eliminate the Uber middle men.


Do you driver just Uber Black?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

AngelAdams said:


> Best, believe it or not, is Base Model 3.


Not for Orlando, There's a very large number of XL trips here (think Disney world and parties of 5+ at the happiest place on earth). Truth be told, a 10 year old POS minivan will generate better revenue than a Cadilac CTS, due to the very high numbers of XL trips that exist. The point of the Escalade is to get commercial insurance and a black car permit and run $3.00 a mile as a luxury chaffeur service and uber XL/Select fares to fill the time. (and hand out your card)

The much higher rates on XL make it worth it by far.

However for an X/eats vehicle going electric is probably a good move, won't argue with that. In terms of price per mile probably either a model 3 or a Leaf. (i don't know enough about the Chevy bolt to say)


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## AngelAdams (Jan 21, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Not for Orlando, There's a very large number of XL trips here (think Disney world and parties of 5+ at the happiest place on earth). Truth be told, a 10 year old POS minivan will generate better revenue than a Cadilac CTS, due to the very high numbers of XL trips that exist. The point of the Escalade is to get commercial insurance and a black car permit and run $3.00 a mile as a luxury chaffeur service and uber XL/Select fares to fill the time. (and hand out your card)
> 
> The much higher rates on XL make it worth it by far.
> 
> However for an X/eats vehicle going electric is probably a good move, won't argue with that. In terms of price per mile probably either a model 3 or a Leaf. (i don't know enough about the Chevy bolt to say)


Bolt is garbage.


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## simont23 (Jul 24, 2019)

KevinH said:


> Do you driver just Uber Black?


No Ordinary. But I have a local City Council permit that enables me to park on City Taxi Ranks. If I get a job before Uber send me one, then they are certainly not involved. So a surprisingly large amount of my work is just me and the passengers involved!


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

KevinH said:


> http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-uber-lyft-ballot-initiative-guarantees-only-5-64-an-hour/
> 
> Uber, Lyft, and DoorDash have unveiled their ballot initiative to undo historic worker protections enshrined in AB5, California's new law that tightens the criteria for worker classification. The initiative claims drivers will receive a guaranteed pay equal to 120% of the minimum wage (that would be $15.60 in 2021, when the California minimum wage will be $13). Our review of the initiative leads to a very different estimate. *After considering multiple loopholes in the initiative, we estimate that the pay guarantee for Uber and Lyft drivers is actually the equivalent of a wage of $5.64 per hour. *Harry Truman was president the last time the inflation-adjusted value of the minimum wage was that low. Indeed, the real level of the pay guarantee is about one third of the required minimum pay for drivers under New York City's new driver pay standard.
> Here are the loopholes that change the guarantee from $15.60 to $5.64 (see also the accompanying graphic):
> ...


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

simont23 said:


> No Ordinary. But I have a local City Council permit that enables me to park on City Taxi Ranks. If I get a job before Uber send me one, then they are certainly not involved. So a surprisingly large amount of my work is just me and the passengers involved!


Do you have livery insurance?


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## simont23 (Jul 24, 2019)

KevinH said:


> Do you have livery insurance?


I have commercial passenger transport insurance.


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

Good going!


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