# Denied rides because of his Service Dog



## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

*Man with service dog says Uber, Lyft drivers repeatedly deny him rides*
http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-ne...g-says-uber-drivers-repeatedly-deny-him-rides

I had the honors of debating Ryan Honick on Twitter the other week.
His response is always "Its against the law" to which I replied I'm not an expert on this specific law. 
I argued that to force a driver, without compensation who will have to spend time and money lost cleaning out a vehicle because the dog left hair all over is wrong.
He kept on repeating it's the law. 
If indeed thats true then the law is wrong and needs to be changed.
Adding while I sympathize with you and all you're going thru forcing yourself onto others without compensation is wrong.
Mind you I volunteer for an animal rescue org and love dogs.


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## Lawlet91 (Jun 8, 2017)

It’s against the law plain and simple, don’t like it don’t drive cuz if you deny ada regulation your most likely on the hook with a hefty fine, to the tune of up to $55000


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

I'm well aware that it's the law and would love to hear from others what they think or do


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

It _is _against the law to refuse them but if the dog causes any damages that would normally be charged to any other customer to repair or replace they can also be charged for it. That means that if the dog leaves a mess, whether it is a pile of hair or something worse, then you can charge a cleaning fee, *but only if you would normally charge a cleaning fee for the same "damages" to a regular customer.
*
In our cases this is pretty simple to understand. If you only charge cleaning fees for dog hair and nothing else it could be construed as unfair and illegal but if you are charging cleaning fees for comparable messes from other passengers then it's fair game to charge the passenger for the mess the dog left behind.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

I always take service animals. Failure to do that will definitely get you deactivated if someone reports you to Uber/Lyft as several people have found out the hard way.

I have never had one make a mess but if they did I would put in for a cleaning fee like anyone else.


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

Fair but anyone can claim service animal?


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MikeNY said:


> Fair but anyone can claim service animal?


If it's a dog or miniature horse, then yes... unfortunately.


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

The ADA says a miniature horse can be declined due to size


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MikeNY said:


> The ADA says a miniature horse can be declined due to size


It's variable. I'd imagine it wouldn't fit easily in a Prius but if it fits in the backseat and the passenger is in the front then there's nothing that says you can refuse it unless it is being a hazard, such as causing a disturbance trying to bite you or something. It really depends on how well it's been trained and how "polite" it's being. And at the end of the day it's your word against the passenger's so a minor inconvenience might prove more tolerable than a 48 hour deactivation... or worse.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

MikeNY said:


> Fair but anyone can claim service animal?


There doesnt even have to be an animal there, if a rider says there was a service dog there, and you denied a ride, guess whose side uber and lyft are on


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

The ADA specifically says that only dogs fall under the guidelines of a service animal.
Everything else is an emotional support animal
Including miniature horses. Hence you do not have to take a miniature horse.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MikeNY said:


> The ADA specifically says that only dogs fall under the guidelines of a service animal.
> Everything else is an emotional support animal
> Including miniature horses. Hence you do not have to take a miniature horse.


Straight from the ADA website:

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm


> *Miniature Horses
> In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department's revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities.* (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.) Entities covered by the ADA must modify their policies to permit miniature horses where reasonable. The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner's control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse's type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse's presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.


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## Just BS (Nov 29, 2018)

Gotta know the difference between a service dog and an emotional support dog. You're only allowed to ask if it's a service dog and what task it performs. That is you clue. A person with a service dog knows the drill. It's pretty simple... and a service dog will be well behaved.


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

RDWRER said:


> Straight from the ADA website:
> 
> https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm


Doesn't say it's a service animal.
They added that whenever reasonable possible to accommodate but due to its size etc


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MikeNY said:


> Doesn't say it's a service animal.
> They added that whenever reasonable possible to accommodate but due to its size etc


The title of the webpage and the document is "Service Animals"


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

RDWRER said:


> The title of the webpage and the document is "Service Animals"


Read the entire thread.
Nowhere does it say Miniature Horses are a service animal.
They added that in some instances where a Miniature horse has been trained to do the functions of a service animal it should be properly accommodated when possible.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

MikeNY said:


> Read the entire thread.
> Nowhere does it say Miniature Horses are a service animal.
> They added that in some instances where a Miniature horse has been trained to do the functions of a service animal it should be properly accommodated when possible.


Why are you being so apprehensive? Let me explain in detail:

"Entities covered by the ADA"

That's basically everyone doing business, including us lowsome Uber drivers.

"must modify their policies"

Not may, can, or any other partiality, *must
*
"to permit miniature horses where reasonable."

What they must do is accept miniature horses, where _reasonable. _But who gets to define "reasonable"? Why the ADA of course! And it does, as it then lists 4 assessment factors to determine if it can be reasonably accommodated:

1. Is it house broken? Well unless you see it relieving itself in front of you you'll just have to take the owner at its word on that.

2. Is it under the owner's control? Well is it obeying commands? Is it complying or is it struggling with its owner at every instruction?

3. Can the facility (i.e. your car) accommodate it? We're talking about something that can be as small as 24 inches. That's basically a large dog. As long as the owner is not trying to pass off a full size horse as a service animal it can probably fit in the back of most cars for a short trip across town.

4. Will the miniature horse compromise _legitimate _safety concerns? This is where you might actually have a leg to stand on as as far as I can see "legitimate" is not defined. Basically if you feel unsafe because of the miniature horse and can articulate that then it's probably okay as far as the law is concerned. But once again that's not going to save you from a 48 hour deactivation if the passenger complains.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Wtf is a miniature horse anyway lol doubt anyone has seen a service mini horse


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## mmn (Oct 23, 2015)

Hooves on a leather/vinyl seat sounds wrong...!


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

Kodyhead said:


> Wtf is a miniature horse anyway lol doubt anyone has seen a service mini horse












The little one.

And you're absolutely right! There's probably so few that almost no driver would ever even come into contact with one. But you have to be prepared to handle one appropriately (i.e. legally) if you do.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

MikeNY said:


> *Man with service dog says Uber, Lyft drivers repeatedly deny him rides*
> http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-ne...g-says-uber-drivers-repeatedly-deny-him-rides
> 
> I had the honors of debating Ryan Honick on Twitter the other week.
> ...


the guy in the story is in a wheelchair so it's not like someone would mistake it for a therapy dog, so people just want to discriminate against him and don't want to help. When I drove I did one wheelchair ride and it was a PITA getting the chair inside my car which is a compact hatchback. I drove a lady voluntarily once because she called and asked if it was okay and she was at the vet, so since i love dogs I said okay, it wasn't a service dog but she was legally blind so I was glad to help and she did tip.

I think it's easy for people to lose their decency and sense of compassion when they are working for such a horrible company as Uber or Lyft.



Lawlet91 said:


> It's against the law plain and simple, don't like it don't drive cuz if you deny ada regulation your most likely on the hook with a hefty fine, to the tune of up to $55000


 I never knew the driver would be fined I figured Uber would be and all that could happen to the driver was that they are fired. It would be hard to get $55K from a driver that does $3 rides. So they can get a judgement but that's about it.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

MikeNY said:


> *Man with service dog says Uber, Lyft drivers repeatedly deny him rides*
> http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-ne...g-says-uber-drivers-repeatedly-deny-him-rides
> 
> I had the honors of debating Ryan Honick on Twitter the other week.
> ...


It's really a non-issue. I've done 8,000 rides and have never been asked to take a service animal. Many, many fakes, emo dogs and other pets have been presented for transportation but I deny them all.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

what i find is funny is i am ADA CERTIFED..driving wav ..wheelchair access van.
in 4 years and a billion rides . only 3 service dogs.
2 reg service dogs 
i in cage (cheater)
1 with wheel chair...only 3 real dogs


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

The problem becomes weither or not said dog is legit. In the 4 yrs of doing this 3 of them have been out of 15-18.

The following is for California,...
.
*Penal Code - PEN*
*PART 1. OF CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS [25 - 680]*
_ ( Part 1 enacted 1872. )_ 
*TITLE 9. OF CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON INVOLVING SEXUAL ASSAULT, AND CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC DECENCY AND GOOD MORALS [261 - 368.5]*
_ ( Heading of Title 9 amended by Stats. 1982, Ch. 1111, Sec. 2. )_

*CHAPTER 12. Other Injuries to Persons [346 - 367g]*
_ ( Chapter 12 enacted 1872. )_

*365.7. *
(a) Any person who knowingly and fraudulently represents himself or herself, through verbal or written notice, to be the owner or trainer of any canine licensed as, to be qualified as, or identified as, a guide, signal, or service dog, as defined in subdivisions (d), (e), and (f) of Section 365.5 and paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) of Section 54.1 of the Civil Code, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(b) As used in this section, "owner" means any person who owns a guide, signal, or service dog, or who is authorized by the owner to use the guide, signal, or service dog.

_(Added by Stats. 1994, Ch. 1257, Sec. 12. Effective January 1, 1995.)_


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

MikeNY said:


> I'm well aware that it's the law and would love to hear from others what they think or do


Is what it is bro.
Adults follow rules & regs
Kids don't



RDWRER said:


> Why are you being so apprehensive? Let me explain in detail:
> 
> "Entities covered by the ADA"
> 
> ...


President George HW Bush signed ADA into Law July 1990
Rest In Peace Mr President.

ADA disabilities include both mental and physical medical conditions. A condition does not need to be severe or permanent to be a disability.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> President George HW Bush signed ADA into Law July 1990
> Rest In Peace Mr President.
> 
> ADA disabilities include both mental and physical medical conditions. A condition does not need to be severe or permanent to be a disability.


I'm... not really sure how that response correlated with my point-by-point breakdown of the Miniature Horses addendum to the ADA, but okay!


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

RDWRER said:


> I'm... not really sure how that response correlated with my point-by-point breakdown of the Miniature Horses addendum to the ADA, but okay!


The horse wins


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> The problem becomes weither or not said dog is legit. In the 4 yrs of doing this 3 of them have been out of 15-18.
> 
> The following is for California,...
> .
> ...


That law has less bite than granny when she's lost her dentures.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

it's this simple take all dogs or buy your own private black car..... Lyft and uber are waiting to fire you..
my last dog was 2 years ago. and I am driving last 18 month ADA...VAN FOR WAV..
I need more pay


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Lawlet91 said:


> It's against the law plain and simple, don't like it don't drive cuz if you deny ada regulation your most likely on the hook with a hefty fine, to the tune of up to $55000


I think that would vary by jurisdiction. Some places, sure, it is subject to possible fine based on state and local laws.

Nationwide, the ADA was passed before Ride Sharing was even invented. Has a court or regulatory ruling been made as to whether ride sharing vehicles are "public accommodations" subject to the law?

Of course, even if it hasn't been, Uber has rules too and can deactivate for failure to do this


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Service dog, cat, anaconda or not, I really don't give AF. jump in & lets go.

What bothers me is time wasting especially on short rides.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

MikeNY said:


> *Man with service dog says Uber, Lyft drivers repeatedly deny him rides*
> http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-ne...g-says-uber-drivers-repeatedly-deny-him-rides
> 
> I had the honors of debating Ryan Honick on Twitter the other week.
> ...


99.9% of the time a pax with a dog is NOT a service animal just a paxhole

A legit guy like this I have no problem with


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> 99.9% of the time a pax with a dog is NOT a service animal just a paxhole
> 
> A legit guy like this I have no problem with


I agree, you can tell the difference between a real service dog but the issue will arise when you refuse a PAX with a dog and he complains you'll get deactivated and possibly fined.

The law was drafted in a horrible manner where a driver can't ask for papers.

Basically idiots guide to **** someone over is by ordering an U/L and report the guy.

I remember this guy in NYC who would file law suits against businesses to make money.

He wasn't even legit disabled yet liberal judges in NYC would grant him the satisfaction and money.



I_Like_Spam said:


> I think that would vary by jurisdiction. Some places, sure, it is subject to possible fine based on state and local laws.
> 
> Nationwide, the ADA was passed before Ride Sharing was even invented. Has a court or regulatory ruling been made as to whether ride sharing vehicles are "public accommodations" subject to the law?
> 
> Of course, even if it hasn't been, Uber has rules too and can deactivate for failure to do this


It's a grey area not black in white.
We need to sign a petition to have the ADA change the law where as a Ride Share driver has the right to request for documentation.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

MikeNY said:


> I agree, you can tell the difference between a real service dog but the issue will arise when you refuse a PAX with a dog and he complains you'll get deactivated and possibly fined.
> 
> The law was drafted in a horrible manner where a driver can't ask for papers.
> 
> .


That's why you have a dash cam

Me: hi is that a service animal?
Pax: no

All caught on video

Try to report me now you paxhole!


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

MikeNY said:


> I remember this guy in NYC who would file law suits against businesses to make money.
> 
> He wasn't even legit disabled yet liberal judges in NYC would grant him the satisfaction and money.


I haven't heard about cases like that lately, although they still might be around.

There were law firms who had people going door to door in business districts with tape measures. Seeing whether the bathrooms and such were ADA compliant. If they weren't, the law firm would send them a letter shaking them down for a payoff threatening a lawsuit.


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> I haven't heard about cases like that lately, although they still might be around.
> 
> There were law firms who had people going door to door in business districts with tape measures. Seeing whether the bathrooms and such were ADA compliant. If they weren't, the law firm would send them a letter shaking them down for a payoff threatening a lawsuit.


Michael Avenatti types


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Sure, let's waste everyone's time with troll bait.

An accusation isn't a fact. Some folks spend their days finding things to sue over. 

Just as bad are the "drivers" who play spider to us flies, making false arguments that can only harm anyone who listens.


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> That's why you have a dash cam
> 
> Me: hi is that a service animal?
> Pax: no
> ...


Unfortunately you can't even ask that
The only questions you're allowed according to the ADA is

1. Is the animal required because of a disability?
2. What work or task has the animal been trained to perform?
We need a petition to change that so that we are protected, since we drive our own vehicles we should have a right to ask for service papers.



Karen Stein said:


> Sure, let's waste everyone's time with troll bait.
> 
> An accusation isn't a fact. Some folks spend their days finding things to sue over.
> 
> Just as bad are the "drivers" who play spider to us flies, making false arguments that can only harm anyone who listens.


It's the times of "False Allegations"
You're living in history this generation will be forever known as, let's accuse someone of abuse or refusing my dog.



MikeNY said:


> *Man with service dog says Uber, Lyft drivers repeatedly deny him rides*
> http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-ne...g-says-uber-drivers-repeatedly-deny-him-rides
> 
> I had the honors of debating Ryan Honick on Twitter the other week.
> ...


I would change the subject of this conversation to " would you refuse a PAX with a dog.
After all sometimes its obvious whether it's a service dog or not. Would you refuse it otherwise.
We need to petition the ADA to allow for Ride Share drivers to request papers.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

MikeNY said:


> Unfortunately you can't even ask that
> The only questions you're allowed according to the ADA is
> 
> 1. Is the animal required because of a disability?
> ...


Well of course I meant I use the legally correct wording to ask that question!!


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

I had a neighbor who had a pit bull and tried to say it was a service dog, he was told to get rid of the dog because of the history of these animals, he refused and was evicted. I will NOT accept a pit bull in my car under any circumstances.


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## Jumpin Jim (Mar 4, 2018)

If the service dog is not toes to the curb, I will not stop. If it is under 80 lb and does not have a car seat, I will not stop, and if the dog has been out late and had been drinking too much, I definitely will not stop.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Jumpin Jim said:


> If the service dog is not toes to the curb, I will not stop. If it is under 80 lb and does not have a car seat, I will not stop, and if the dog has been out late and had been drinking too much, I definitely will not stop.


So in other words you don' like ugly girls.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

As an “independent contractor” should be able to opt out of taking ANY type of animals. 
Furthermore Uber/Lyft need notifications within the app “you may be transporting service animal on this request”. This allows you to prepare for anything you’d like to grab first like a blanket.


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## Ribak (Jun 30, 2017)

MikeNY said:


> *Man with service dog says Uber, Lyft drivers repeatedly deny him rides*
> http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-ne...g-says-uber-drivers-repeatedly-deny-him-rides
> 
> I had the honors of debating Ryan Honick on Twitter the other week.
> ...


Get a clue Ryan. It's not the dog. It's you.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

RDWRER said:


> If it's a dog or miniature horse, then yes... unfortunately.


--------------

Miniature horses do not belong in cars. I would question any owner who thinks that bringing the animal in a car ride is acceptable.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

KK2929 said:


> --------------
> 
> Miniature horses do not belong in cars. I would question any owner who thinks that bringing the animal in a car ride is acceptable.


If you think that's bad...


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## MalikBrother (Feb 20, 2018)

That is what cleaning fees is for. You get more from cleaning fees plus the ride.


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

MikeNY said:


> Fair but anyone can claim service animal?


Yes, anyone can "claim" a service animal; however, doing so is a Misdemeanor in Texas & California (probably in other states too). You can ask "What task the service dog is trained to do for you?" ... people with legitimate service animals are expecting this question as they get it all the time.

I drive a Lux SUV and I've had 5 or 6 people with service dogs ... never had a problem and never saw a mess in my black interior (one dog shed a little hair that the owner offered to clean up, but I took care of it in 3 minutes with the vacuum cleaner I keep in my car ... didn't charge the pax even though she offered to pay for my time).



Kodyhead said:


> Wtf is a miniature horse anyway lol doubt anyone has seen a service mini horse













mmn said:


> Hooves on a leather/vinyl seat sounds wrong...!


I've seen a service mini-horse in public once with a blind man at the mall, the horse was wearing special tennis shoes on his hooves so that he didn't slip on the slick floors


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

From the ADA website: https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
(emphasis mine)

In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) *is the dog a service animal* required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

I love these threads...


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

Older Chauffeur said:


> From the ADA website: https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
> (emphasis mine)
> 
> In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) *is the dog a service animal* required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.


And then if you read the header above that it says you need to also read the revised rules too.










The revised rules are what I have posted earlier in this thread which include the information regarding miniature horses.


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## UberLady10001 (Nov 4, 2017)

I'm glad there's a law like this given some of the posts I see here.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

I take all dogs. Never had a problem with any of them.


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## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

MikeNY said:


> I'm well aware that it's the law and would love to hear from others what they think or do


I immediately drive away with any Chihuahua, Pomeranian or equivalent small-sized dogs. I have never heard of any of them serving as service dogs. My friends have a several of those and it is a nightmare for them.

A passenger can claim whatever they travel with (cat, frog, spider, monkey or even a human) as a service dog. If you cancel before anyone enters your car, there is no room for them to accuse you of refusal to provide service =)

Well, if the animals are restrained in a carrier or cage, I am definitely fine with that.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

RDWRER said:


> And then if you read the header above that it says you need to also read the revised rules too.





RDWRER said:


> The revised rules are what I have posted earlier in this thread which include the information regarding miniature horses.


The revised rules say the same thing I quoted. I posted it to revise the statement by MikeNY that you are not allowed to ask if it is a service dog, which in turn was his reply to a post by iheartuber. 
If you read their posts and mine again, I think you'll find no mention of rules covering miniature horses.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

MikeNY said:


> *Man with service dog says Uber, Lyft drivers repeatedly deny him rides*
> http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-ne...g-says-uber-drivers-repeatedly-deny-him-rides
> 
> I had the honors of debating Ryan Honick on Twitter the other week.
> ...


Was it wearing its RABIES VACCINATION TAG ?

Was the date current


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## Rosalita (May 13, 2018)

How is "service animal" being defined? I'm seeing these little tiny dogs wrapped up in blankets like babies and riding in the baskets of the walkers being pushed by little old ladies to the car.

Popeye's has put out an "emotional support chicken box" to go at the airport. love it! lol


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## RideShareJUNKIE (Jun 23, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> It's really a non-issue. I've done 8,000 rides and have never been asked to take a service animal. Many, many fakes, emo dogs and other pets have been presented for transportation but I deny them all.


I may have had 2 in 10,000 myself. But way more fakes, and people too entitled to even get it half right. I would have taken them in most cases had they not been so deceptive and insulting. All they had to do was ask if their pet can come. Just a simple text, no worries, no stress, no wasting time. Perhaps they feel sooooooo entitled that they dont feel the need to make the effort to send a simple text. It does show that they have ZERO regard for the driver (as usual).
To go to all these lengths of lying, buying fake vests, and all sorts of HORSE crap, they could just be honest and ask a simple question. Some just have no clue how to get something they want, its soooooo easy, relatively speaking, usually they are just too cheap to talk the right ($$) language. For the cost of a mediocre well drink at anyDIVE bar in the city, you could have your pet ride along in complete confidence and comfort in a strangers car. The driver is not also driving you around angry, because you respected his property and time as a rideshare driver. who would of thought of a concept like this huh? ask, then pay for what you want=get what you want. I know it seems super complicated but......


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RideShareJUNKIE said:


> I may have had 2 in 10,000 myself. But way more fakes, and people too entitled to even get it half right. I would have taken them in most cases had they not been so deceptive and insulting. All they had to do was ask if their pet can come. Just a simple text, no worries, no stress, no wasting time. Perhaps they feel sooooooo entitled that they dont feel the need to make the effort to send a simple text. It does show that they have ZERO regard for the driver (as usual).
> To go to all these lengths of lying, buying fake vests, and all sorts of HORSE crap, they could just be honest and ask a simple question. Some just have no clue how to get something they want, its soooooo easy, relatively speaking, usually they are just too cheap to talk the right ($$) language. For the cost of a mediocre well drink at anyDIVE bar in the city, you could have your pet ride along in complete confidence and comfort in a strangers car. The driver is not also driving you around angry, because you respected his property and time as a rideshare driver. who would of thought of a concept like this huh? ask, then pay for what you want=get what you want. I know it seems super complicated but......


Why can't Uber program something into the app whereby legit people with service animals can upload their paperwork and everyone else cannot have the right to submit a bs report against the driver?


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

MikeNY said:


> I agree, you can tell the difference between a real service dog but the issue will arise when you refuse a PAX with a dog and he complains you'll get deactivated and possibly fined.
> 
> The law was drafted in a horrible manner where a driver can't ask for papers.
> 
> ...


The law was drafted to protect people from having to reveal their private medical history to total strangers.

I can't wrap my mind around how we can devote thread after thread after thread to this incredibly simple issue.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> Why can't Uber program something into the app whereby legit people with service animals can upload their paperwork and everyone else cannot have the right to submit a bs report against the driver?


That's too easy and logical.


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## Ghwwe72 (Sep 23, 2016)

MikeNY said:


> Fair but anyone can claim service animal?


The law also says you're not allowed to ask if it's a service animal which is ridiculous.


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## G6Chrisn (Sep 21, 2018)

I don't refuse any animal. but i do tell the owners that a cleaning fee will be charged up front to clean the car afterwards. i know plenty of people with pet allergy's and normally they cancel right away.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

iheartuber said:


> Why can't Uber program something into the app whereby legit people with service animals can upload their paperwork and everyone else cannot have the right to submit a bs report against the driver?


Because it would be illegal for uber or the driver to require it.


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## djmc (Mar 28, 2015)

RDWRER said:


> It _is _against the law to refuse them but if the dog causes any damages that would normally be charged to any other customer to repair or replace they can also be charged for it. That means that if the dog leaves a mess, whether it is a pile of hair or something worse, then you can charge a cleaning fee, *but only if you would normally charge a cleaning fee for the same "damages" to a regular customer.
> *
> In our cases this is pretty simple to understand. If you only charge cleaning fees for dog hair and nothing else it could be construed as unfair and illegal but if you are charging cleaning fees for comparable messes from other passengers then it's fair game to charge the passenger for the mess the dog left behind.


It's neither unfair nor illegal to charge them for the dog hair their dog left behind. Are they somehow suddenly a flying unicorn that defies all universal laws simply because they're disabled and need a service dog? Think about it.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

djmc said:


> It's neither unfair nor illegal to charge them for the dog hair their dog left behind. Are they somehow suddenly a flying unicorn that defies all universal laws simply because they're disabled and need a service dog? Think about it.


I said it "could be construed as unfair and illegal" if the sole recipients of your cleaning fees are ADA customers with service animals. Obviously it would not be my place to decide outright that it is or is not legal. I was just noting that it could be interpreted, or even honestly misinterpreted, as illegal.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

djmc said:


> It's neither unfair nor illegal to charge them for the dog hair their dog left behind. Are they somehow suddenly a flying unicorn that defies all universal laws simply because they're disabled and need a service dog? Think about it.


However, I believe Uber's policy is that they only pay a cleaning fee if that specific rider has had two previous cleaning fee claims.



G6Chrisn said:


> I don't refuse any animal. but i do tell the owners that a cleaning fee will be charged up front to clean the car afterwards. i know plenty of people with pet allergy's and normally they cancel right away.


You'd better refresh yourself on Uber's policy. If you have one verifiable situation where you refused a service animal, you will be permanently deactivated. If you have two "credible complaints" regarding service animals (even if there is no proof), you will be permanently deactivated.

You threatening pax with a cleaning fee for their animal is exactly the kind of thing Uber calls a "credible complaint," and it's also exactly the kind of thing that will cause perfectly reasonable pax to file a complaint.

*****
A lot of you folks need to stop whining about something you have zero control over and just drive the damn dog.

During my 2+ years of part-time driving (2000+ rides), I have had a grand total of TWO dogs in my car. Neither were service animals, and neither rider claimed they were service animals. Neither presented even the slightest problem; in fact, one was a much better pax than her Mommy.

Worry about real things...not trivia like service animals.


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## Alexxx_Uber (Sep 3, 2018)

What I am thinking is to do is as soon as I see the animal, I cancel the ride without talking to pax. Then I IMMEDIATELY email Uber telling them that the pax attacked my religion and I canceled the ride on him and he threatend me that he will make false accusations to Uber about me. I will ask Uber to never match me with that pax. Maybe it works.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Ghwwe72 said:


> The law also says you're not allowed to ask if it's a service animal which is ridiculous.


Yes, you are allowed to ask if it is a service animal. Google ADA Law and read about it.



iheartuber said:


> Why can't Uber program something into the app whereby legit people with service animals can upload their paperwork and everyone else cannot have the right to submit a bs report against the driver?


There is no paperwork required under the ADA. Nothing to upload or show a driver or any other business operator.


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> I immediately drive away with any Chihuahua, Pomeranian or equivalent small-sized dogs. I have never heard of any of them serving as service dogs.


Service dogs come in all shapes and sizes; are you going to deny a ride to the Iraq vet with her 8-pound small Service Dog? When she's wearing a pantsuit you can't tell she's an amputee, but she served her country and has the legal right to get picked up regardless of whether or not you like dogs.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

MikeNY said:


> *Man with service dog says Uber, Lyft drivers repeatedly deny him rides*
> http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-ne...g-says-uber-drivers-repeatedly-deny-him-rides
> 
> I had the honors of debating Ryan Honick on Twitter the other week.
> ...


Businesses with far more money than you have fought the ADA law for over 20 years. Businesses who have lost, or had to spend millions in compliance, have tried to get the law changed for over 20 years. They've failed.

But good luck in your efforts to change the law!



Alexxx_Uber said:


> What I am thinking is to do is as soon as I see the animal, I cancel the ride without talking to pax. Then I IMMEDIATELY email Uber telling them that the pax attacked my religion and I canceled the ride on him and he threatend me that he will make false accusations to Uber about me. I will ask Uber to never match me with that pax. Maybe it works.


Lol, the fact that you admit to have made contact with the pax that may have a service animal, no amount of attack on your religion will get out of deactivation. You think they'll risk another law suit for you? Hahaha



JimKE said:


> However, I believe Uber's policy is that they only pay a cleaning fee if that specific rider has had two previous cleaning fee claims.
> 
> You'd better refresh yourself on Uber's policy. If you have one verifiable situation where you refused a service animal, you will be permanently deactivated. If you have two "credible complaints" regarding service animals (even if there is no proof), you will be permanently deactivated.
> 
> ...


The rule on cleanup is towards the pax. They will only start charging a service animal handler after 2 cleaning reports, but it does not say that the driver cannot or won't get paid the fees. Uber just agreed, in their settlement with the federation of the blind, that they will eat the costs on the first 2 cleaning fee claims.



djmc said:


> It's neither unfair nor illegal to charge them for the dog hair their dog left behind. Are they somehow suddenly a flying unicorn that defies all universal laws simply because they're disabled and need a service dog? Think about it.


That is correct. As long as the charges would be made against animals that aren't service animals, which they would be, then it's not discrimination to do so against a service animal.

It's on discrimination if you would only charge them as a service animal. Cleaning fees are standard for any mess, regardless of disability level.



G6Chrisn said:


> I don't refuse any animal. but i do tell the owners that a cleaning fee will be charged up front to clean the car afterwards. i know plenty of people with pet allergy's and normally they cancel right away.


Allergies are not a protected class, this can get you deactivated in a heart beat if reported by a legitimate service animal handler. You cannot require a special fee just to access services as a disabled individual with a service animal. You've gotten lucky so far, but it's a ticking time bomb. If you value the income Uber provides, I wouldn't continue doing that....


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## JTTwentySeven (Jul 13, 2017)

Personally, just bring a blanket. 
No way I'm letting a dog on bare leather seats. I already scratched it myself...


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## RideShareJUNKIE (Jun 23, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> Why can't Uber program something into the app whereby legit people with service animals can upload their paperwork and everyone else cannot have the right to submit a bs report against the driver?


 Im sorry whats a driver? I thought we were already autonomous, i mean thats how people treat us.

Scenario: Im driving 2 pax somewhere, and one pax asks the other if its ok to add a stop, she adds a stop through the app, without a single word of communication. I get the app notification about the stop. All i can do with a smug look, is turn back to them and say "really?" Mind you i heard the whole conversation ( i mean im 24" away, lol), and yet these little $hits didnt for one second think that maybe instead of going through the little device that they are slaves too, they could just ask the person who is in charge of that dept (LOL). I couldnt help but honestly bust out laughing. The pax were not as entertained by the pure stupidity of the situation. The best they can come up with is, "Oh, i thought it was through the app?" 
To which i replied, "It is, but unfortunately the app cant drive a car yet, so your stuck with an obsolete human."
"Oh in case the app didnt tell you: This is the part you may want to start being a little nicer if you want the app to take you to your added stop. " 
blank stare.................... LOL 
This is just the tip of whats to come. Get some popcorn and a $8 Coke, its going to get entertaining.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RideShareJUNKIE said:


> Im sorry whats a driver? I thought we were already autonomous, i mean thats how people treat us.
> 
> Scenario: Im driving 2 pax somewhere, and one pax asks the other if its ok to add a stop, she adds a stop through the app, without a single word of communication. I get the app notification about the stop. All i can do with a smug look, is turn back to them and say "really?" Mind you i heard the whole conversation ( i mean im 24" away, lol), and yet these little $hits didnt for one second think that maybe instead of going through the little device that they are slaves too, they could just ask the person who is in charge of that dept (LOL). I couldnt help but honestly bust out laughing. The pax were not as entertained by the pure stupidity of the situation. The best they can come up with is, "Oh, i thought it was through the app?"
> To which i replied, "It is, but unfortunately the app cant drive a car yet, so your stuck with an obsolete human."
> ...


Bruh snowflakes are too scred to actually talk to anyone. You should know that


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

What about a "service person," trained to assist blind dogs?


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## NoDay (Jul 25, 2017)

OMG this topic still. This became a big thing 2 years ago. Its basic. read the law, handle it within the law or not, that's on you.


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> What about a "service person," trained to assist blind dogs?


Good one


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

MikeNY said:


> I agree, you can tell the difference between a real service dog but the issue will arise when you refuse a PAX with a dog and he complains you'll get deactivated and possibly fined.
> 
> The law was drafted in a horrible manner where a driver can't ask for papers.
> 
> ...


What documentation???


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## RideShareJUNKIE (Jun 23, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> Bruh snowflakes are too scred to actually talk to anyone. You should know that


I know this but refuse to accept it. lol


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## Dice Man (May 21, 2018)

Is there a miniature ant ???


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

Re-posting from another thread...

https://uberpeople.net/threads/anyo...out-the-lady-uber-driver.212592/#post-3178838

First things first:

This is reason #29 that...

***********If you don't already have an in car dashcam, get one.*********

I know it's been said before, but with respect to service dogs you can ask only two questions:

1) Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability
2) What work or task has the dog been trained to perform.

Unless it interferes with the dog's work or the person's disability, the dog must be leashed ("under control") it can not simply roam around your car. The ADA protections do NOT extend to service animals in training. (So no, you can't bring your 8 week old puppy into my car, you lying sack of sh*t - yeah, this happened).

This is an old story, and things have only gotten worse, but we're not the only people being abused by these a-holes.
https://www.petful.com/service-animal/fake-service-dogs/

Also, the ADA FAQ is here:
https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

(FYI there are no other legally protected service animals under the ADA that we would need worry about, but your state may have exceptions (I'm looking at you Cali). The only other animal covered by the ADA is the miniature horse and the rules regarding them do would not apply to us as we can not accommodate a 70 -100 lb horse)


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## 16tons (Oct 10, 2018)

MikeNY said:


> *Man with service dog says Uber, Lyft drivers repeatedly deny him rides*
> http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-ne...g-says-uber-drivers-repeatedly-deny-him-rides
> 
> I had the honors of debating Ryan Honick on Twitter the other week.
> ...


We can ask two questions, far as I know: "Do you have a disability?" and "What service is the animal trained to perform? You can turn down a pax who won't answer those questions, as far as I know.

I also ask that the dog be placed on the floor...


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## Kris150303 (Aug 1, 2018)

MikeNY said:


> *Man with service dog says Uber, Lyft drivers repeatedly deny him rides*
> http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-ne...g-says-uber-drivers-repeatedly-deny-him-rides
> 
> I had the honors of debating Ryan Honick on Twitter the other week.
> ...


Taxes are unfair too, we can't stop paying them. Well we can but we'll end up in prison


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## melotron75 (Apr 11, 2018)

All you guys talking about refusing service animals are some petty dog hating mother****ers. Just keep a lint roller in your car and if there happens to be some hair when the passenger exits, then just lint roll that shit up.


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

melotron75 said:


> All you guys talking about refusing service animals are some petty dog hating [email protected]@@@ers. Just keep a lint roller in your car and if there happens to be some hair when the passenger exits, then just lint roll that shit up.


I would never refuse a Service Dog but I wouldn't call those that refuse dog haters.
From there point of view it will blow hair all over the car and lint roll wont help for that.
Other users have given a good advice, that you can always charge a clean up fee same way if a drunk passenger throws up or if PAX makes a mess.
I'm a huge dog lover and transport dogs for an animal rescue often, every time I do that I have to vacuum my car.
If you're working then you're bound to spend time driving searching for a vacuume station. Time and money is precious. So we need to consider them too. I also doubt the clean up fee for that will be more then $20 which is unfair to the driver missing out on possible good trips.


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## Misunderstood Pirate (Aug 25, 2017)

Just BS said:


> Gotta know the difference between a service dog and an emotional support dog. You're only allowed to ask if it's a service dog and what task it performs. That is you clue. A person with a service dog knows the drill. It's pretty simple... and a service dog will be well behaved.


If You deny anyone with a dog you will get screwed. That dog will suddenly become a service dog. These riders know what to say



Lee239 said:


> the guy in the story is in a wheelchair so it's not like someone would mistake it for a therapy dog, so people just want to discriminate against him and don't want to help. When I drove I did one wheelchair ride and it was a PITA getting the chair inside my car which is a compact hatchback. I drove a lady voluntarily once because she called and asked if it was okay and she was at the vet, so since i love dogs I said okay, it wasn't a service dog but she was legally blind so I was glad to help and she did tip.
> 
> I think it's easy for people to lose their decency and sense of compassion when they are working for such a horrible company as Uber or Lyft.
> 
> I never knew the driver would be fined I figured Uber would be and all that could happen to the driver was that they are fired. It would be hard to get $55K from a driver that does $3 rides. So they can get a judgement but that's about it.


No driver is getting fined $55k. It's for companies.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

16tons said:


> We can ask two questions, far as I know: "Do you have a disability?" and "What service is the animal trained to perform? You can turn down a pax who won't answer those questions, as far as I know.
> 
> I also ask that the dog be placed on the floor...


That's wrong.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

JTTwentySeven said:


> Personally, just bring a blanket.
> No way I'm letting a dog on bare leather seats. I already scratched it myself...


I carry two bath towels and a lint roller for the rare times I transport a dog.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

KenLV said:


> Re-posting from another thread...
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/anyo...out-the-lady-uber-driver.212592/#post-3178838
> 
> ...


While there's plenty you could complain about I'm not sure why you chose to complain about "a 70 - 100 lb" horse when we accommodate a 150 - 300 lb person all the time...


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> Why can't Uber program something into the app whereby legit people with service animals can upload their paperwork and everyone else cannot have the right to submit a bs report against the driver?


Because, despite the fact that anyone who wants to park in a handicapped spot is fully capable of and is reguired by law to provide documentation and then display the legally required placards/plates, for some reason, people who "require" a service animal are incapable of doing so and it's illegal to even ask for proof.



CTK said:


> I can't wrap my mind around how we can devote thread after thread after thread to this incredibly simple issue.


The reason we need to keep having threads on this is because people keep giving out inaccurate information like this:


CTK said:


> The law was drafted to protect people from having to reveal their private medical history to total strangers.


Not true.

As a matter of fact, there's less protection for privacy of medical conditions for persons with service animals than there is for persons using handicapped spots.

For example:

A person with a placard doesn't have to answer *any* questions in order to park - so long as they display the legally required placards/plates.

_A person claiming they have a service animal must a) state that the animal is trained to do work/perform a task for a disabled individual *and *b) state what the work/task is that the animal is trained to perform.

If they were required by law to display a vest/tags/paperwork, etc... *then* their privacy would be protected._

As a veteran and former healthcare provider, I'm friends with several "disabled" veterans and civilians who hate how these laws are taken advantage of - and *not * to the benefit of the people they are supposed to help.

I've had to deal with BS ADA claims in my former business life, I can tell you, this law is so poorly written that it opens up the most innocent of persons to frivolous litigation/complaints and allows the worst of the worst to abuse the law.

And I'm not talking about actual disabled persons, I'm talking scumbags.

Just a few fine examples...
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/02/13/hickenlooper-appointee-sues-businesses-ada/
https://abc7.com/archive/7655664/
https://hotellaw.jmbm.com/frivolous_serial_ada_lawsuits_-_costello_v_flat.html

*So yeah, keep talking about the abuses, but educate yourself and start talking to your legislators who need to fix the laws.*


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

KenLV said:


> Because, despite the fact that anyone who wants to park in a handicapped spot is fully capable of and is reguired by law to provide documentation and then display the legally required placards/plates, for some reason, people who "require" a service animal are incapable of doing so and it's illegal to even ask for proof.
> 
> The reason we need to keep having threads on this is because people keep giving out inaccurate information like this:
> Not true.
> ...


You're assuming that all disabilities are the same and businesses don't have to ask anything, it's simply an option. 
What's your solution if you don't like the current law?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

16tons said:


> We can ask two questions, far as I know: "Do you have a disability?" and "What service is the animal trained to perform? You can turn down a pax who won't answer those questions, as far as I know.
> 
> I also ask that the dog be placed on the floor...


If the dog is used as a diabetic alert dog for instance, it may do that by smelling the persons breath. It will be held or in a carrier on the chest.

Most service dogs WILL sit on the floor, but small service dogs may be doing something that requires them to be held or in a carrier.

"Do you have a disability?" is not the correct wording btw.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

RDWRER said:


> While there's plenty you could complain about I'm not sure why you chose to complain about "a 70 - 100 lb" horse...


Re-read my post.
The reason that you're "not sure why {I} chose to complain about "a 70 - 100 lb" horse" is because I didn't complain about miniature horses; I specifically stated that it's not a concern since, per the law, we can't "reasonably accommodate" them.
I hope that helps with your confusion.


RDWRER said:


> ...we accommodate a 150 - 300 lb person all the time...


Since you're bringing it up though...
You don't see the difference between what's required to accommodate horses vs. people? The law certainly does. For example, people sit in your seats, horses stand/lay on your floor. I, and I'd wager most drivers, don't have a space for a 100 lb horse to safely sit or stand. Hence the "reasonable accommodation" part of the law.



Fuzzyelvis said:


> If the dog is used as a diabetic alert dog for instance, it may do that by smelling the persons breath. It will be held or in a carrier on the chest.
> Most service dogs WILL sit on the floor, but small service dogs may be doing something that requires them to be held or in a carrier.
> "Do you have a disability?" is not the correct wording btw.


This is mostly correct, and I'll have to find it, but unless the dog is in the person's lap/chest in order to preform its task, you may insist it remains on the floor and not on seats. There was actually a ruling by the DOJ on this a few years back and it addressed things like dogs in restaurants/bars/etc...on seats, at the bar, at tables, etc... people who put their dog in their shopping cart, etc... (all crap that owners of *bogus* service animals (i.e. pets) try to get away with) and it basically said "No, the animal must stay on the floor."

Again, this was praised as a *good thing* by people with legitimate service animals.

People who need these animals to live their lives *want clarity* and want the bogus service animals and owners outed just as much as we do.


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## Alexxx_Uber (Sep 3, 2018)

We seriously need some legit excuses to refuse dogs - unfortunately there is nothing currently. 
Wish there was some lawyer type guys amongst us in this forum who could help. I can’t really take dogs. It really hurts me when there is a pax with dog.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

KenLV said:


> Re-read my post.
> The reason that you're "not sure why {I} chose to complain about "a 70 - 100 lb" horse" is because I didn't complain about miniature horses; I specifically stated that it's not a concern since, per the law, we can't "reasonably accommodate" them.
> I hope that helps with your confusion.
> Since you're bringing it up though...
> ...


Because this clearly can't fit in your car...


----------



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

Ziggy said:


> ; are you going to deny a ride to the Iraq vet with her 8-pound small Service Dog?


I do respect every military personnel for their service to the country regardless of active duty or veteran status. However, is it appropriate to verify his / her military identity? Getting paid with minimum wage, it is not worth the hassle requesting the presentation of military ID.

I respect my car too. Not sure if you do.

Will you ask a veteran to pay a cleaning fee if any mess is left behind? Very likely I will.

Will you report to Uber if his/her dog damages the leather seat? Definitely I will.

As mentioned, if the animal concerned (whether it is a service dog or not) is in a cage, I do not see any reason of not taking the ride.



Alexxx_Uber said:


> We seriously need some legit excuses to refuse dogs - unfortunately there is nothing currently.
> .


The law is so distorted that drivers have to take dogs even with allergic problems.

Question - Who is going to be responsible for any allergy-associated medical expenses?

Uber - _____________ is responsible (You can try to fill in the blank)


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

RDWRER said:


> Because this clearly can't fit in your car...


I'm sure some can, but per the law, none are going on my seat; so if they can't safely fit on the floor, they aren't going on my car.

That's the law and I'm good with it.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

KenLV said:


> I'm sure some can, but per the law, none are going on my seat; so if they can't safely fit on the floor, they aren't going on my car.
> 
> That's the law and I'm good with it.


Per what law? What jurisdiction do you live in that says the animal must go on the floor? This is a legitimate question because I've seen this thrown about here and there on this website but I've never actually come across any specific legislation that says this, and trust me I've looked for it so I can reference it. The only thing I've seen on the matter of taxi cabs is the following:

https://www.ada.gov/archive/qasrvc.htm



> *Q: I operate a private taxicab and I don't want animals in my taxi; they smell, shed hair and sometimes have "accidents." Am I violating the ADA if I refuse to pick up someone with a service animal?*
> 
> A: Yes. Taxicab companies may not refuse to provide services to individuals with disabilities. Private taxicab companies are also prohibited from charging higher fares or fees for transporting individuals with disabilities and their service animals than they charge to other persons for the same or equivalent service.


As far as I can see you simply must transport the passenger if you can reasonably accommodate it. Is it reasonable to have it on the floor? Some might agree, but some might not.

And if you are aware of specific legislation please cite it so that I can as well in the future.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

RDWRER said:


> Per what law? What jurisdiction do you live in that says the animal must go on the floor? This is a legitimate question because I've seen this thrown about here and there on this website but I've never actually come across any specific legislation that says this, and trust me I've looked for it so I can reference it. The only thing I've seen on the matter of taxi cabs is the following:


 As I said above, the DOJ issued a ruling on this several years ago which was hailed by legit service animal users as a good thing. Also like I said, I'll have to dig it up. I'm not at my computer right now I'm out driving.


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## 16tons (Oct 10, 2018)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> If the dog is used as a diabetic alert dog for instance, it may do that by smelling the persons breath. It will be held or in a carrier on the chest.
> 
> Most service dogs WILL sit on the floor, but small service dogs may be doing something that requires them to be held or in a carrier.
> 
> "Do you have a disability?" is not the correct wording btw.


I assume the other part is correct, then. So what is the "correct" wording???



JimKE said:


> That's wrong.


You people who just want to say something is "wrong" without saying what you feel is "right" are not very considerate. I am repeating what I was told by a Lyft CSR--which may not guarantee that it is correct, but I have it documented should I hage a problem.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

16tons said:


> You people who just want to say something is "wrong" without saying what you feel is "right" are not very considerate. I am repeating what I was told by a Lyft CSR--which may not guarantee that it is correct, but I have it documented should I hage a problem.


I specifically am NOT going to tell you what is right for two reasons:

If you are too lazy to look up something this easy, it's not my responsibility to spoon-feed you.
Several other posters have already posted the correct information. In fact, KenLV posted the correct information in the post immediately preceding your post! If you're too lazy to read other posts, or can't wrap your mind around the right answers, that's your problem, not mine.
Your post was wrong. Figure it out.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

KenLV said:


> Re-read my post.
> The reason that you're "not sure why {I} chose to complain about "a 70 - 100 lb" horse" is because I didn't complain about miniature horses; I specifically stated that it's not a concern since, per the law, we can't "reasonably accommodate" them.
> I hope that helps with your confusion.
> Since you're bringing it up though...
> ...


"*A*. Generally, the dog must stay on the floor, or the person must carry the dog. For example, if a person with diabetes has a glucose alert dog, he may carry the dog in a chest pack so it can be close to his face to allow the dog to smell his breath to alert him of a change in glucose levels."
https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

Demon said:


> "*A*. Generally, the dog must stay on the floor, or the person must carry the dog. For example, if a person with diabetes has a glucose alert dog, he may carry the dog in a chest pack so it can be close to his face to allow the dog to smell his breath to alert him of a change in glucose levels."
> https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html


But that's preceded by by a question regarding shopping carts. Can you cite the DOJ ruling you were referring to earlier that it applies outside of retail environments?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

RDWRER said:


> But that's preceded by by a question regarding shopping carts. Can you cite the DOJ ruling you were referring to earlier that it applies outside of retail environments?


It isn't a ruling, the DOJ doesn't issue rulings, these are guidelines and they apply to all public accommodations.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

Demon said:


> It isn't a ruling, the DOJ doesn't issue rulings, these are guidelines and they apply to all public accommodations.


Oh it was Ken apparently who mentioned a "ruling", not you so I should've actually asked him.


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## 16tons (Oct 10, 2018)

JimKE said:


> I specifically am NOT going to tell you what is right for two reasons:
> 
> If you are too lazy to look up something this easy, it's not my responsibility to spoon-feed you.
> Several other posters have already posted the correct information. In fact, KenLV posted the correct information in the post immediately preceding your post! If you're too lazy to read other posts, or can't wrap your mind around the right answers, that's your problem, not mine.
> Your post was wrong. Figure it out.


Oh, thanks for telling me, smart a**! Now go find another outlet for your frustrations.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

16tons said:


> Oh, thanks for telling me, smart a**! Now go find another outlet for your frustrations.


You're welcome. Happy to help.

The real problem with posting incorrect information is not how it makes us look. The bigger problem is that some new driver will come along, read the incorrect information, follow it, and get in trouble.

We can giggle and say, "Oh well, natural selection at work," but the poor reader gets hurt. Everyone would be better off without posts that are just plain wrong.


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## xgamrgeekx (Dec 1, 2018)

I keep a blanket in my car for service animals. As far as cleaning, I live by a place with vacs $1 for 4 mins, if it's just been one animal, that's all it takes if the blanket is used.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Simple solution just look to see if there is an animal with the passenger as you approach, if so just keep going and turn off your phone, it’s not your fault if your phone had a glitch.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

peteyvavs said:


> Simple solution just look to see if there is an animal with the passenger as you approach, if so just keep going and turn off your phone, it's not your fault if your phone had a glitch.


You'll be deactivated for sure, and rightly so.


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## UbeeDubee (Dec 16, 2018)

Not accepting a pax with a service dog is not an everyday event is it? I've only been driving about 5 months and have about 1400 rides under my belt (I know, I know, thats peanuts compared to most of you) and have only had 2 pax with service animals, neither of which did any damage and all I needed to do was vacuum the blanket after the rides. If you're concerned about dog hair then go on Amazon and buy a small portable vacuum that plugs in to one of the outlets in your car. They're about $30-$40 bucks and can be used to vacuum EVERYTHING in your car beside dog hair. Be sure to read the reviews and get a powerful unit. It's not too difficult to keep a relatively heavy duty blanket in the trunk is it? I spread the blanket out across the entire back seat area, top to bottom, including the floor. I explain to the pax that she/he must have control over the dog or I will have to cancel the ride. For those of you who drive late night, this is not much different then picking up drunks and dealing with what a drunk can do, which is usually a hell of a lot more then a service dog.

Woof, Woof...


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

mmn said:


> Hooves on a leather/vinyl seat sounds wrong...!


As with service animal dogs, they should be trained to remain on the floor and not move around.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Note that the law says you must take the dog. It says nothing about taking the person


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

KenLV said:


> (FYI there are no other legally protected service animals under the ADA that we would need worry about, but your state may have exceptions (I'm looking at you Cali). The only other animal covered by the ADA is the miniature horse and the rules regarding them do would not apply to us as we can not accommodate a 70 -100 lb horse)


I used to drive a Ford Focus. My Irish Wolfhound mix fit just fine. He was WAY past 100 lbs.

Put the pax front seat forward all the way and there are plenty of miniature horses that could fit.



16tons said:


> I assume the other part is correct, then. So what is the "correct" wording???
> 
> You people who just want to say something is "wrong" without saying what you feel is "right" are not very considerate. I am repeating what I was told by a Lyft CSR--which may not guarantee that it is correct, but I have it documented should I hage a problem.


The correct wording has been posted MULTIPLE times, just in this thread. I've posted one below.

Go by what the ADA says, not some idiot Lyft employee. (If they told you it's ok to run a red light, will that save you because you "documented" it?)



KenLV said:


> Re-posting from another thread...
> 
> I know it's been said before, but with respect to service dogs you can ask only two questions:
> 
> ...


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## Leea (Dec 18, 2017)

bobby747 said:


> what i find is funny is i am ADA CERTIFED..driving wav ..wheelchair access van.
> In 4 years and a billion rides . only 3 service dogs.
> 2 reg service dogs
> i in cage (cheater)
> 1 with wheel chair...only 3 real dogs


I have had 7 dogs in my car I have given about 2500 rides and I hate it everytime because of the smell the hair and the general feeling of uncomfortablness I get around dogs. I accept everytime not out of fear of breaking the law though more out of pity to be honest.


JimKE said:


> However, I believe Uber's policy is that they only pay a cleaning fee if that specific rider has had two previous cleaning fee claims.
> 
> You'd better refresh yourself on Uber's policy. If you have one verifiable situation where you refused a service animal, you will be permanently deactivated. If you have two "credible complaints" regarding service animals (even if there is no proof), you will be permanently deactivated.
> 
> ...


If you received more request from pax with service animals and experienced problems lost time cleaning up after their animals received complaints about smells and hair from other pax you would definitely think differently about the problem. However since you haven't experienced these things 1st hand you down play the problem and belittle others. SMH...Shame on you


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## 16tons (Oct 10, 2018)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I used to drive a Ford Focus. My Irish Wolfhound mix fit just fine. He was WAY past 100 lbs.
> 
> Put the pax front seat forward all the way and there are plenty of miniature horses that could fit.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the direct response, and have self-corrected long ago. Now perhaps we can cease beating this dead dog--I mean horse--figuratively, or course.


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## MyPeeps (Sep 18, 2018)

https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/history/35th/1990s/ada.html


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## UbeeDubee (Dec 16, 2018)

Leea said:


> I have had 7 dogs in my car I have given about 2500 rides and I hate it everytime because of the smell the hair and the general feeling of uncomfortablness I get around dogs. I accept everytime not out of fear of breaking the law though more out of pity to be honest.
> 
> If you received more request from pax with service animals and experienced problems lost time cleaning up after their animals received complaints about smells and hair from other pax you would definitely think differently about the problem. However since you haven't experienced these things 1st hand you down play the problem and belittle others. SMH...Shame on you


Leea:

If the smell of a dog is that bad then get a spray can of Febreze and give your back seat area just two or three small bursts of the spray after you let the pax and dog out at their dropoff point. Not too much spray or you'll stink up your car with the Febreze and it will be too noticeable to your next pax who will sense that you're covering something up. It's also possible that you're imagining the smell because you are so 'uncomfortable' around them.


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## MyPeeps (Sep 18, 2018)

Agree. The last dog I had left a mess and it was wrapped in a blanket but the pax and the blinky had hair attached.

In the ADA you can't even question about their dog or the pax disability, if memory serves.

One dog named scochi (a short hair) knew in advance if the human was to have a seizure and would paw at him to signal. The pax said in public, the dog has approached other humans who were and did have seizures.



UbeeDubee said:


> Leea:
> 
> If the smell of a dog is that bad then get a spray can of Fabreeze and give your back seat area just two or three small bursts of the spray after you let the pax and dog out at their dropoff point. Not too much spray or you'll stink up your car with the Fabreeze and it will be too noticeable to your next pax who will sense that you're covering something up. It's also possible that you're imagining the smell because you are so 'uncomfortable' around them.


Fabreeze or simple green sprayed on helps get the crap vacuumed up easier.


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## Dinoberra (Nov 24, 2015)

The therapy/comfort animal isn't a real thing unless it's been registered with the ADA and you can ask for their paperwork, as soon as you hear that you can deny the passenger if they don't have paperwork, just know that you need to be on the record asking "what is the animal trained to do, and If the dog is required for a physical disability"


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## Prius Mike (Jul 6, 2017)

16tons said:


> We can ask two questions, far as I know: "Do you have a disability?"


Close. You can't ask if the person has a disability, at least not directly. The legally permitted form of that question is:


KenLV said:


> 1) Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability


I keep a colored index card in my console with the ADA-permitted questions on it. On the other side of the card are the age-related laws and policies (child safety seats, booster seats, and unaccompanied minors).


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Dinoberra said:


> The therapy/comfort animal isn't a real thing unless it's been registered with the ADA and you can ask for their paperwork, as soon as you hear that you can deny the passenger if they don't have paperwork, just know that you need to be on the record asking "what is the animal trained to do, and If the dog is required for a physical disability"


There is no paperwork required for a service animal.


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## UbeeDubee (Dec 16, 2018)

Agreed. Cannot ask about or require paperwork showing a disability requiring a service animal.


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