# Consistent non tippers are like school on Sunday.



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

No class. 

These people absolutely disgust me. Human garbage through and through. Its one of the reasons I like the models of instacart or doordash so much. Both services show the tenative tip up front. Hopefully more services start doing this. That way these non tipping people can get the standard low class low level service they deserve. 

I think Im actually going to start intentionally taking one no tip door dash order per night. I'll do it while Im about to go on my break. I'll bring it home and put it in my freezer while I eat a nice warm dinner. Then deliver it afterwards. This will actually cost me money when you factor in time and expenses but it will be money well spent imo.


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## KevinJohnson (Mar 23, 2020)

Do your non tippers come from a specific restaurant? Or is that restaurant usually known for tipping customers?


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

mch said:


> No class.
> 
> These people absolutely disgust me. Human garbage through and through. Its one of the reasons I like the models of instacart or doordash so much. Both services show the tenative tip up front. Hopefully more services start doing this. That way these non tipping people can get the standard low class low level service they deserve.
> 
> I think Im actually going to start intentionally taking one no tip door dash order per night. I'll do it while Im about to go on my break. I'll bring it home and put it in my freezer while I eat a nice warm dinner. Then deliver it afterwards. This will actually cost me money when you factor in time and expenses but it will be money well spent imo.


Rub your balls on it !!!!!!
Might not get ya more money 
but will make you feel better about it
Ill feel better too no video please
We will take your word.....


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

mch said:


> No class.
> 
> These people absolutely disgust me. Human garbage through and through. Its one of the reasons I like the models of instacart or doordash so much. Both services show the tenative tip up front. Hopefully more services start doing this. That way these non tipping people can get the standard low class low level service they deserve.
> 
> I think Im actually going to start intentionally taking one no tip door dash order per night. I'll do it while Im about to go on my break. I'll bring it home and put it in my freezer while I eat a nice warm dinner. Then deliver it afterwards. This will actually cost me money when you factor in time and expenses but it will be money well spent imo.


You don't understand what tipping is.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Demon said:


> You don't understand what tipping is.


I'm pretty sure you're the one who doesn't understand


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

ariel5466 said:


> I'm pretty sure you're the one who doesn't understand


I do, which is why I posted what I did.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Demon said:


> You don't understand what tipping is.


What part of anything I said gives any indication that I don't know what tipping is?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

mch said:


> What part of anything I said gives any indication that I don't know what tipping is?


The entire thing. Tipping by definition is optional & supposed to be based on service.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> The entire thing. Tipping by definition is optional & supposed to be based on service.


What do you think about people who _never_ tip?

"It's a free country" or "we live in a society"?

We'll leave aside the question about whether tipping culture is equitable or good - what do you think about avowed non-tippers?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

waldowainthrop said:


> What do you think about people who _never_ tip?
> 
> "It's a free country" or "we live in a society"?
> 
> We'll leave aside the question about whether tipping culture is equitable or good - what do you think about avowed non-tippers?


That they understand tipping better than those who do.

How are you defining those terms?

That avowed non-tippers understand tipping policies better than those who tip.

Tipping is a senseless process that several studies have shown does not improve service. Tipping is bad for the customer & the person giving the service. The person giving the service should be getting a fair wage.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

waldowainthrop said:


> What do you think about people who _never_ tip?
> 
> "It's a free country" or "we live in a society"?
> 
> We'll leave aside the question about whether tipping culture is equitable or good - what do you think about avowed non-tippers?


I think they are uncouth imbeciles and should be drawn and quartered!!!!

Oh my bad, you werent talking to me.



Demon said:


> That they understand tipping better than those who do.
> 
> How are you defining those terms?
> 
> ...


I actually agree with the last part 100%. Tipping shouldn't exist at all. There should be no need for it whatsoever. Unfortunately that's not the reality we currently live in.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

mch said:


> I think they are uncouth imbeciles and should be drawn and quartered!!!!
> 
> Oh my bad, you werent talking to me.
> 
> ...


And why exactly do you feel this way? Why should someone be forced to tip?

If you really felt that way you wouldn't be calling people names for not giving you a tip.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Demon said:


> The person giving the service should be getting a fair wage.


I completely agree. But because we live in a tipping culture, which isn't going to change just by being an asshole and not tipping, they aren't. So you need to tip. Or you're a scumbag.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

ariel5466 said:


> I completely agree. But because we live in a tipping culture, which isn't going to change just by being an asshole and not tipping, they aren't. So you need to tip. Or you're a scumbag.


We don't live in a tipping culture.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Demon said:


> We don't live in a tipping culture.


Your profile says you're from Orlando. Are you currently living in North America? If you are, then news flash - you live in a tipping culture. And that waitress that you stiffed is being paid $2.35/hour by her employer.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> That they understand tipping better than those who do.
> 
> How are you defining those terms?
> 
> ...


I'm all for a fair wage, but we get there through higher pay _first_, whether by minimum wage laws, or by employer policy. We don't get there by cheapskates withholding tips from hard-working people, just because they can.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

ariel5466 said:


> Your profile says you're from Orlando. Are you currently living in North America? If you are, then news flash - you live in a tipping culture. And that waitress that you stiffed is being paid $2.35/hour by her employer.


What makes you think I "stiffed" a waitress?
When you order something from Amazon or from online do you tip the delivery guy?


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> We don't live in a tipping culture.


We do, for better or worse. While wait staff and other service workers earn below minimum wage, they rely on tips.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Demon said:


> What makes you think I "stiffed" a waitress?
> When you order something from Amazon or from online do you tip the delivery guy?


Don't play stupid. You know who you're supposed to tip. And your attitude tells me that you've stiffed many people, across the service industry.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

waldowainthrop said:


> I'm all for a fair wage, but we get there through higher pay _first_, whether by minimum wage laws, or by employer policy. We don't get there by cheapskates withholding tips from hard-working people, just because they can.


You're exactly the reason why we're not there. When you call people names for not tipping it shows you don't understand the policies at work. Why should people give you extra money for nothing?



ariel5466 said:


> Don't play stupid. You know who you're supposed to tip. Be your attitude tells me that you've stiffed many people, across the service industry.


You're not answering the question that I asked, so I'll ask again, how do you know I "stiffed" a waitress?


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Demon said:


> You're exactly the reason why we're not there. When you call people names for not tipping it shows you don't understand the policies at work. Why should people give you extra money for nothing?


Bringing me back to my original point - you're the one who does not understand tipping.



Demon said:


> You're not answering the question that I asked, so I'll ask again, how do you know I "stiffed" a waitress?





ariel5466 said:


> And your attitude tells me that you've stiffed many people, across the service industry.


I quoted myself since you didn't read it the first time.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

ariel5466 said:


> Bringing me back to my original point - you're the one who does not understand tipping.
> 
> 
> I quoted myself since you didn't read it the first time.


And you're still running away from providing anything to back up your argument.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Demon said:


> And why exactly do you feel this way? Why should someone be forced to tip?
> 
> If you really felt that way you wouldn't be calling people names for not giving you a tip.


Because people know that most service workers get a sizeable portion of their income from tips. Most non tippers arent sitting there measuring the quality of servive they are getting. They have 0 intention of ever leaving a tip. They do it because they can get away with it and save a few bucks. They are taking advantage of the system. To me thats a low class move.

Is tipping in general a crappy system? Sure. But a lot of these service based buisnesses, especially the smaller ones probably wouldnt exist if they had to pay their employees a fair wage. I don't even look at tipping as a means to necessarily improve service. More like maintain it. I'd much rather get a pizza delivered from the good local place down the street rather than have it be overtaken by Pappa Johns. So yea, maybe ill pay a little more to subsidize their workers.

Also when I rant about tipping Im not even really talking about me not getting tips. I only drive/deliver food part time. If I don't get a tip Im over it pretty quick. It really gets me mad when I think about the people who do service based jobs for a living and get taken advantage of by parasites on a daily basis. Because thats what habitual non tippers are, parasites.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> You're exactly the reason why we're not there. When you call people names for not tipping it shows you don't understand the policies at work. Why should people give you extra money for nothing?


I could say the same about you. "We're not there yet" because people are willing to work for less.

This is how collective action problems work. We can't get to a "no tips required" culture without a lot of effort. It won't come from idiots who don't ever tip or balk at tipping. It will come from employers with power, governments with the force of the law, and collective action from people who demand a fair wage.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Demon said:


> What makes you think I "stiffed" a waitress?
> When you order something from Amazon or from online do you tip the delivery guy?


So what are your standard tipping habits then? Who do you tip and who don't you tip? If you do tip, what percentages/amounts do you tip?


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Demon said:


> And you're still running away from providing anything to back up your argument.


And you're still not reading my posts and comprehending, so what's the point?



mch said:


> It really gets me mad when I think about the people who do service based jobs for a living and get taken advantage of by parasites on a daily basis.


That's one of things that drove me away from being a waitress. I can still make money with rideshare without tips. Not so with restaurant service.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Demon said:


> The entire thing. Tipping by definition is optional & supposed to be based on service.


@MiamiKid? &#128526;&#128526;



Demon said:


> What makes you think I "stiffed" a waitress?
> When you order something from Amazon or from online do you tip the delivery guy?


I tip if it's the guy delivering my mattress or the lady that delivered my boxes of sparking soda. Even though I paid for the delivery. It's just extra bump. I was taught this way by my ma, not sure if it makes a difference that she didn't grow up here but even she knows.

and for the usual usps, Christmas envelope. For the ups driver @ work, because he flirts with me too much and I don't want to encourage it, but still thank him & his coworkers for taking my stuff past 5, I give them bags of food, same food I brought for myself eg candy, chips and such. The good kind too.

but they're all paid way more than waiters/waitresses/etc. and yes, while my state still pays minimum, minimum is not living wage. I could not work a job for minimum.

And just so you know because while I haven't worked in a restaurant personally; my friends have, sister, and I have clients who run restaurants and I've gotten to know their employees really well. Well enough to know that a manager for a small business restaurant only makes $14/hr in sf (this was three years ago, I'm sure it's not that much higher) Cooks not much more. And another cupcake spot (think cupcake wars), they were paying their manager slightly under $50k. When he got promoted to "district manager" and he was trying to find his replacement, he had a hellva time getting a replacement from retail stores because retail $50k is laugh out loud.

and just to further hammer it in, tips are often shared with cooks and host/ess. And if you're paying by cc there's the fee deducted from that % you're leaving. Most pple double the tax in sf so it's roughly over 16% but still kind of a shitty tip if they only knew how much the waitresses/waiters actually see... and this is if pple tip. There are more no tipping regulars then most pple realize (not my experience, just best friend ranting to me).


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## DriversAreMean (Jul 14, 2019)

mch said:


> No class.
> 
> These people absolutely disgust me. Human garbage through and through. Its one of the reasons I like the models of instacart or doordash so much. Both services show the tenative tip up front. Hopefully more services start doing this. That way these non tipping people can get the standard low class low level service they deserve.
> 
> I think Im actually going to start intentionally taking one no tip door dash order per night. I'll do it while Im about to go on my break. I'll bring it home and put it in my freezer while I eat a nice warm dinner. Then deliver it afterwards. This will actually cost me money when you factor in time and expenses but it will be money well spent imo.


I wasn't expecting much from a guy who has a cheeseburger stuffed in his mouth and decides to take a photo. Some people tip after they get the service so they can factor in how quickly it came how the food taste it etc. before they tip and you're going to go out of your way to tamper with someone's food which is illegal by the way I'll because you're not getting enough pocket change instead there's so many other things you could be doing to make money.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

DriversAreMean said:


> I wasn't expecting much from a guy who has a cheeseburger stuffed in his mouth and decides to take a photo. Some people tip after they get the service so they can factor in how quickly it came how the food taste it etc. before they tip and you're going to go out of your way to tamper with someone's food which is illegal by the way I'll because you're not getting enough pocket change instead there's so many other things you could be doing to make money.


Who's tampering with any food? Im taking a sealed bag and storing it in a safe sterile place while I eat my dinner. Whats the problem with that? The customer is still getting the food and basic service they paid for.


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## DriversAreMean (Jul 14, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> Your profile says you're from Orlando. Are you currently living in North America? If you are, then news flash - you live in a tipping culture. And that waitress that you stiffed is being paid $2.35/hour by her employer.


The truth is most servers make way more than that because customers are ripped off feeling pressure to pay a percentage of the bill to the server instead of just a smaller tip like 2 to 5 dollars for the service so waders make way more than they should be making and then they don't pay tips on it so you guys don't really want a fair pay do you want the tabs same with Uber drivers you complain but you know when you're getting tipped and those bigger tips you're making more than if they paid you per mile if they gave you a raise



mch said:


> Who's tampering with any food? Im taking a sealed bag and storing it in a safe sterile place while I eat my dinner. Whats the problem with that? The customer is still getting the food and basic service they paid for.


You're supposed to deliver the food not change is temperature unnaturally by putting it in the fridge or freezer. Not bring it into your home. Not play games. You see immoral. All this because sometimes me won't give you an extra $2? Do you realize how pathetic that is. A man's job is to earn money and yet as a woman I earn way more than you. instead of being obsessed with pocket change why don't you figure out a way to add significantly to your net worth and forget Uber and these little machinations of messing with peoples food?


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

DriversAreMean said:


> The truth is most servers make way more than that because customers are ripped off feeling pressure to pay a percentage of the bill to the server instead of just a smaller tip like 2 to 5 dollars for the service so waders make way more than they should be making and then they don't pay tips on it so you guys don't really want a fair pay do you want the tabs same with Uber drivers you complain but you know when you're getting tipped and those bigger tips you're making more than if they paid you per mile if they gave you a raise
> 
> 
> You're supposed to deliver the food not change is temperature unnaturally by putting it in the fridge or freezer. Not bring it into your home. Not play games. You see immoral. All this because sometimes me won't give you an extra $2? Do you realize how pathetic that is. A man's job is to earn money and yet as a woman I earn way more than you. instead of being obsessed with pocket change why don't you figure out a way to add significantly to your net worth and forget Uber and these little machinations of messing with peoples food?


What do you do for a living?


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

DriversAreMean said:


> The truth is most servers make way more than that because customers are ripped off feeling pressure to pay a percentage of the bill to the server instead of just a smaller tip like 2 to 5 dollars for the service so waders make way more than they should be making and then they don't pay tips on it so you guys don't really want a fair pay do you want the tabs same with Uber drivers you complain but you know when you're getting tipped and those bigger tips you're making more than if they paid you per mile if they gave you a raise


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## DriversAreMean (Jul 14, 2019)

mch said:


> What do you do for a living?


I am a designer and I make 15-18,000 a month


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## KevinJohnson (Mar 23, 2020)

DriversAreMean said:


> I am a designer and I make 15-18,000 a month


Calling BS


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## DriversAreMean (Jul 14, 2019)

KevinJohnson said:


> Calling BS


That's not even that much money. My goal is to make 25k a month.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Rub your balls on it !!!!!!
> Might not get ya more money
> but will make you feel better about it
> Ill feel better too no video please
> We will take your word.....


Isn't it best if he waits for a salsa order? Remember that video?

Disclaimer: I don't advocate doing anything to food.



DriversAreMean said:


> You're about as low class as they come and I wasn't expecting much from a guy who has a cheeseburger stuffed in his mouth and decides to take a photo.


He's using a filter in his profile pic. I think you may need tp spend some of that money you make from trolling on laser eye surgery.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Invisible said:


> Isn't it best if he waits for a salsa order? Remember that video?
> 
> Disclaimer: I don't advocate doing anything to food.
> 
> ...


Lol nah, it's an actual cheeseburger. If you look real close you can see ketchup in the corner of my mouth&#128514;


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

mch said:


> Lol nah, it's an actual cheeseburger. If you look real close you can see ketchup in the corner of my mouth&#128514;


My apologies Ms. Meanie aka @DriversAreMean apparently I'm the one who needs laser surgery to see on my phone.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

mch said:


> Because people know that most service workers get a sizeable portion of their income from tips. Most non tippers arent sitting there measuring the quality of servive they are getting. They have 0 intention of ever leaving a tip. They do it because they can get away with it and save a few bucks. They are taking advantage of the system. To me thats a low class move.
> 
> Is tipping in general a crappy system? Sure. But a lot of these service based buisnesses, especially the smaller ones probably wouldnt exist if they had to pay their employees a fair wage. I don't even look at tipping as a means to necessarily improve service. More like maintain it. I'd much rather get a pizza delivered from the good local place down the street rather than have it be overtaken by Pappa Johns. So yea, maybe ill pay a little more to subsidize their workers.
> 
> Also when I rant about tipping Im not even really talking about me not getting tips. I only drive/deliver food part time. If I don't get a tip Im over it pretty quick. It really gets me mad when I think about the people who do service based jobs for a living and get taken advantage of by parasites on a daily basis. Because thats what habitual non tippers are, parasites.


I Deliver Pizza !

TIPPERS EAT FIRST!

ALWAYS.


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## ashlee2004 (Apr 19, 2019)

DriversAreMean said:


> I am a designer and I make 15-18,000 a month


May I ask what you design?


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

DriversAreMean said:


> I am a designer and I make 15-18,000 a month


So when I was asking for proof of your annoying comments a few days ago, that was a joke. But what you just wrote here is an extraordinary and unbelievable claim. The range makes it even more absurd and unbelievable.

Troll harder. &#128517;


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## ashlee2004 (Apr 19, 2019)

DriversAreMean said:


> You do it on the side because you need money I need to start a thread about everyone who acts like they don't need the money


.....I just wanted to know what field of design you're in. Gosh.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

I still want to know what level of education we’re dealing with here. 😎


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## ashlee2004 (Apr 19, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> I still want to know what level of education we're dealing with here. &#128526;


I'm gonna go with GED.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> I Deliver Pizza !
> 
> TIPPERS EAT FIRST!
> 
> ALWAYS.


Hell yea man! It's good to see you here. I take it you've been holding up well during all the 2020 nonsense.


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## DriversAreMean (Jul 14, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> So when I was asking for proof of your annoying comments a few days ago, that was a joke. But what you just wrote here is an extraordinary and unbelievable claim. The range makes it even more absurd and unbelievable.
> 
> Troll harder. &#128517;


How is 15-18,000 a month and unbelievable claim? I I mean really? It's not that much money During the holidays my designs profit me $1,000 a day.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

DriversAreMean said:


> How is 15-18,000 a month and unbelievable claim?


Because it's coming from you.

Because it's oddly specific and vague at the same time.

Because you said "design".

I know what it's like to work in "design" and fundamentally it is a job that involves effective communication and clear writing. Maybe you're just putting on that persona for us. You tell us.


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## DriversAreMean (Jul 14, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Because it's coming from you.
> 
> Because it's oddly specific and vague at the same time.
> 
> ...


Yes I am a designer but I don't want to say what because I want some anonymity. So yes I am a designer but I don't want to say of what. The range is because every day every week and every month is different but that's what I pull in every month. As far as my articulation it's because I'm doing talk to text and I don't sell expensive things but I saw a lot of inexpensive things.


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## ashlee2004 (Apr 19, 2019)

DriversAreMean said:


> How is 15-18,000 a month and unbelievable claim? I I mean really? It's not that much money you're just broke so you can't fathom it. During the holidays my designs profit me $1,000 a day.


It's a simple question: what kind of design do you do?

Simply answer this most basic question and you'll look far less suspicious.


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## DriversAreMean (Jul 14, 2019)

ashlee2004 said:


> It's a simple question: what kind of design do you do?
> 
> Simply answer this most basic question and you'll look far less suspicious.


I am in the fashion world


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Every higher paid designer I have come across (and yes, high six figures is extremely highly paid in the design world) writes well and they usually don’t troll web forums. I happen to read a lot of work by professional designers and engineers, as it’s an interest of mine.

Oh, fashion design. I take back everything I said, but I still don’t believe you.


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## ashlee2004 (Apr 19, 2019)

Not WHAT SPECIFIC PRODUCT you design, not who your employer is, not a sample of your blood, just the GENERAL FIELD you work


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

DriversAreMean said:


> I am in the fashion world


&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;

you speak like you work at old navy and I know they don't pay that much.

&#128077;&#127995;&#128077;&#127995;


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## DriversAreMean (Jul 14, 2019)

ashlee2004 said:


> Not WHAT SPECIFIC PRODUCT you design, not who your employer is, not a sample of your blood, just the GENERAL FIELD you work


I work for myself I'm an entrepreneur which is why I make more money than slumming for someone else like you do with Uber. If you wanna make any money in life you need to start your own thing work for yourself I don't care if you don't believe me quite frankly I don't think 18,000 a month is very much at all. My goal is to make 25 grand a month so at least I can look at myself in the mirror I know I'm not totally broke I'm not happy with what I made it's just funny that you guys all think it's a lie when I know I have the capacity to make so much more money if I just work a little harder. I work for myself I'm an entrepreneur which is why I make more money than slumming for someone else like you do with Uber. If you wanna make any money in life you need to start your own thing work for yourself I don't care if you don't believe me quite frankly I don't think 18,000 a month is very much at all. My goal is to make 25 grand a month so at least I can look at myself in the mirror I know I'm not totally broke I'm not happy with what I made it's just funny that you guys all think it's a lie when I know I have the capacity to make so much more money if I just work a little harder



sellkatsell44 said:


> &#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;&#129315;
> 
> you speak like you work at old navy and I know they don't pay that much.
> 
> &#128077;&#127995;&#128077;&#127995;


I work for myself

only on the internet, do the pond scum that are Uber drivers laugh at someone who makes more in a month than a handful of you guys combined lol &#128514;


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

You can’t be an entrepreneur if you are this bad at selling your own story.

I guess I should try to steer this back on topic. People who don’t tip write nonsense like the above. 😅


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

DriversAreMean said:


> I work for myself I'm an entrepreneur which is why I make more money than slumming for someone else like you do with Uber. If you wanna make any money in life you need to start your own thing work for yourself I don't care if you don't believe me quite frankly I don't think 18,000 a month is very much at all. My goal is to make 25 grand a month so at least I can look at myself in the mirror I know I'm not totally broke I'm not happy with what I made it's just funny that you guys all think it's a lie when I know I have the capacity to make so much more money if I just work a little harder. I work for myself I'm an entrepreneur which is why I make more money than slumming for someone else like you do with Uber. If you wanna make any money in life you need to start your own thing work for yourself I don't care if you don't believe me quite frankly I don't think 18,000 a month is very much at all. My goal is to make 25 grand a month so at least I can look at myself in the mirror I know I'm not totally broke I'm not happy with what I made it's just funny that you guys all think it's a lie when I know I have the capacity to make so much more money if I just work a little harder
> 
> 
> I work for myself
> ...


Your writing is poor. So it's hard to believe you're anything above the mass produced goods of old navy caliber.

you're also misinformed.

andddddddd

&#129396;&#129396;

(still trolling!)


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## ashlee2004 (Apr 19, 2019)

DriversAreMean said:


> Yes I am a designer but I don't want to say what because I want some anonymity. So yes I am a designer but I don't want to say of what. The range is because every day every week and every month is different but that's what I pull in every month. As far as my articulation it's because I'm doing talk to text and I don't sell expensive things but I saw a lot of inexpensive things.


Fashion design? So I have to ask - how and why in the hell are you on an Uber driver forum all day long when you have nothing to gain from being here? How do you benefit from this in any way whatsoever, especially since you don't know what anyone is talking about 80% of the time?

And why in the world would ANY fashion designer desire ANONYMITY?!??!?!?! Doesn't that, I don't know, sort of prevent you from doing your ONE SIMPLE JOB?


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

DriversAreMean said:


> I work for myself I'm an entrepreneur which is why I make more money than slumming for someone else like you do with Uber. If you wanna make any money in life you need to start your own thing work for yourself I don't care if you don't believe me quite frankly I don't think 18,000 a month is very much at all. My goal is to make 25 grand a month so at least I can look at myself in the mirror I know I'm not totally broke I'm not happy with what I made it's just funny that you guys all think it's a lie when I know I have the capacity to make so much more money if I just work a little harder. I work for myself I'm an entrepreneur which is why I make more money than slumming for someone else like you do with Uber. If you wanna make any money in life you need to start your own thing work for yourself I don't care if you don't believe me quite frankly I don't think 18,000 a month is very much at all. My goal is to make 25 grand a month so at least I can look at myself in the mirror I know I'm not totally broke I'm not happy with what I made it's just funny that you guys all think it's a lie when I know I have the capacity to make so much more money if I just work a little harder
> 
> 
> I work for myself
> ...


I almost feel sorry for you reading this. Its obvious you're deeply unhappy since all you keep bringing up is how much money you make. When you hit that 25k you arent gonna like what you see in the mirror anymore than you do now. I hate to break it to you.


----------



## DriversAreMean (Jul 14, 2019)

mch said:


> I almost feel sorry for you reading this. Its obvious you're deeply unhappy since all you keep bringing up is how much money you make. When you hit that 25k you arent gonna like what you see in the mirror anymore than you do now. I hate to break it to you.


But I'll be looking in a nice mirror all you have is a rearview mirror LOL


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

DriversAreMean said:


> But I'll be looking in a nice mirror all you have is a rearview mirror LOL


Wow, gotta duck out from this conversation. This is too sad. &#128533;


----------



## DriversAreMean (Jul 14, 2019)

ashlee2004 said:


> Fashion design? So I have to ask - how and why in the hell are you on an Uber driver forum all day long when you have nothing to gain from being here? How do you benefit from this in any way whatsoever, especially since you don't know what anyone is talking about 80% of the time?
> 
> And why in the world would ANY fashion designer desire ANONYMITY?!??!?!?! Doesn't that, I don't know, sort of prevent you from doing your ONE SIMPLE JOB?


I want anonymity on HERE! Don't know why that is so difficult to understand.



mch said:


> No class.
> 
> These people absolutely disgust me. Human garbage through and through. Its one of the reasons I like the models of instacart or doordash so much. Both services show the tenative tip up front. Hopefully more services start doing this. That way these non tipping people can get the standard low class low level service they deserve.
> 
> I think Im actually going to start intentionally taking one no tip door dash order per night. I'll do it while Im about to go on my break. I'll bring it home and put it in my freezer while I eat a nice warm dinner. Then deliver it afterwards. This will actually cost me money when you factor in time and expenses but it will be money well spent imo.


So you do food delivery and not driving right?


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

DriversAreMean said:


> I want anonymity on HERE! Don't know why that is so difficult to understand.
> 
> 
> So you do food delivery and not driving right?


I used to drive people until the pandemic hit. Took a few months off from any type of gig work then started delivery about a month or so ago.

Im not convinced you aren't a sock, so I have a few questions for you.

Have you ever driven for Uber?

Have you ever been to or lived in Nashville?

Do you smoke weed?

Have you ever watched adult movies in your car?


----------



## DriversAreMean (Jul 14, 2019)

mch said:


> I used to drive people until the pandemic hit. Took a few months off from any type of gig work then started delivery about a month or so ago.
> 
> Im not convinced you aren't a sock, so I have a few questions for you.
> 
> ...


I have never driven for Uber. I have never been to Nashville. I don't smoke weed and I never watched an adult movie in my car. 
so you went from being unemployed to having a part-time delivery job and all you do is complain on here that people don't tip you? I guess we should just feel lucky that you're working at all thanks for taking time away from doing nothing to doing a tiny bit of some thing.


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

DriversAreMean said:


> I have never driven for Uber. I have never been to Nashville. I don't smoke weed and I never watched an adult movie in my car.
> so you went from being unemployed to having a part-time delivery job and all you do is complain on here that people don't tip you? I guess we should just feel lucky that you're working at all thanks for taking time away from doing nothing to doing a tiny bit of some thing.


Are you drunk? I told you already I have a full time job. You even quoted the post where I said it and you said i still drive because I "need money". Jeez.

My money is on you being @Honky Tonk


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

DriversAreMean said:


> No because I have so much money that my vibrators are top-of-the-line and they plug into your computer to charge no battery necessary


Does it have Bluetooth, too? &#128523;



DriversAreMean said:


> As far as my articulation it's because I'm doing talk to text


And you call us lazy...


----------



## OldUncleDave (Apr 22, 2019)

mch said:


> No class.
> 
> These people absolutely disgust me. Human garbage through and through. Its one of the reasons I like the models of instacart or doordash so much. Both services show the tenative tip up front. Hopefully more services start doing this. That way these non tipping people can get the standard low class low level service they deserve.
> 
> I think Im actually going to start intentionally taking one no tip door dash order per night. I'll do it while Im about to go on my break. I'll bring it home and put it in my freezer while I eat a nice warm dinner. Then deliver it afterwards. This will actually cost me money when you factor in time and expenses but it will be money well spent imo.


I use DD probably once a week. I don't like the pre-service tip, and that I can't adjust it afterwards. My orders are $12+, to hit the "No fee" threshold, and I have no problem tipping $3 (25%) on a short run. I bump it $5 on a crosstown run, or busy times.

But then I get a bad driver (one was "picking up at restaurant" for an hour). Sometimes it's a great driver. But I can't tell the driver that. I can't bump the tip. I can't comment, only 1* them.

DR should fix this.


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

OldUncleDave said:


> I use DD probably once a week. I don't like the pre-service tip, and that I can't adjust it afterwards. My orders are $12+, to hit the "No fee" threshold, and I have no problem tipping $3 (25%) on a short run. I bump it $5 on a crosstown run, or busy times.
> 
> But then I get a bad driver (one was "picking up at restaurant" for an hour). Sometimes it's a great driver. But I can't tell the driver that. I can't bump the tip. I can't comment, only 1* them.
> 
> DR should fix this.


Me personally since I drive for them and don't actually use the service as a customer Im fine with keeping it the way it is. The majority of the time its tough to separate the driver with the reaturant in terms of why there was a delay, why the food was cold, ect. Once I get an order Im gonna make sure I get it to you as fast as possible, but at the day for me its just a gig app to temporarily make money. So I look at DD purley through that lense and I believe seeing tips up front and basing my choice on that is more profitable. Not sure if you've ever driven for them but DD's base pay is atrocious. Its all about tips with that app. Where I drive you see $3-$5 orders coming in constantly. Those are non tipping orders. The $5 orders are sometimes 10+ miles away.

Im not saying you're wrong either. If I was using the app as a customer that stuff would probably bug me too.


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

KevinJohnson said:


> Calling BS


I called troll on that guy the day he signed up. He is probably also @AveragePerson too. 
Jerks like that arent adding any 
content or making me laugh
Best just put em on block and 
read something else interesting
#stopfeedingthetrolls


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> #stopfeedingthetrolls


Trolls have to eat too, and I need entertainment.

I already went on a blocking spree. I keep a couple of trolls around to keep things interesting.


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I called troll on that guy the day he signed up. He is probably also @AveragePerson too.
> Jerks like that arent adding any
> content or making me laugh
> Best just put em on block and
> ...


It's Honky Tonk


----------



## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

mch said:


> It's Honky Tonk


Wanna make a pool and ask who is the best troll here or worst troll?


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Wildgoose said:


> Wanna make a pool and ask who is the best troll here or worst troll? :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


The good socks get banned immediately. The ones who start arguments and fights get to stick around.

If it bleeds it leads I guess....



Wildgoose said:


> Wanna make a pool and ask who is the best troll here or worst troll? :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


A poll like that will definitley cause some static&#128514;&#128514;.


----------



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

mch said:


> No class.
> 
> These people absolutely disgust me. Human garbage through and through. Its one of the reasons I like the models of instacart or doordash so much. Both services show the tenative tip up front. Hopefully more services start doing this. That way these non tipping people can get the standard low class low level service they deserve.
> 
> I think Im actually going to start intentionally taking one no tip door dash order per night. I'll do it while Im about to go on my break. I'll bring it home and put it in my freezer while I eat a nice warm dinner. Then deliver it afterwards. This will actually cost me money when you factor in time and expenses but it will be money well spent imo.


Doordash and Instacart will raise the base pay every time it gets declined so after a few times, it pays about the same as a standard order with tips. No Tip = standard service. Tip = you should perform better than standard. Hard to say doing what you are saying is standard service, which is why after the food is more than 30 minutes late than the expected time, you can get full refund, a voucher/free credits, and the free food you about to deliver. The only thing you accomplish is an infraction to yourself to be honest...

Also, I reject the notion that not tipping equates to human garbage. Not tipping is a contribution to fair market pay without reliance on tips. If the base pay is not enough for the workers, then market pressure will force them to get a better job that pays more. If enough workers leave, companies would be forced to pay more, increasing the base pay until a balance between supply and demand is met. Meanwhile, tipping is just short term gain but causes long term pain (perpetuating low base pay and reliance on tips).



25rides7daysaweek said:


> I called troll on that guy the day he signed up. He is probably also @AveragePerson too.
> Jerks like that arent adding any
> content or making me laugh
> Best just put em on block and
> ...


Must be nice to label anyone you disagree with as 'trolls'.

This place is (unfortunately) an echo chamber that does not reflect real balanced opinions on topic matters...


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

AveragePerson said:


> Doordash and Instacart will raise the base pay every time it gets declined so after a few times, it pays about the same as a standard order with tips. No Tip = standard service. Tip = you should perform better than standard. Hard to say doing what you are saying is standard service, which is why after the food is more than 30 minutes late than the expected time, you can get full refund, a voucher/free credits, and the free food you about to deliver. The only thing you accomplish is an infraction to yourself to be honest...
> 
> Also, I reject the notion that not tipping equates to human garbage. Not tipping is a contribution to fair market pay without reliance on tips. If the base pay is not enough for the workers, then market pressure will force them to get a better job that pays more. If enough workers leave, companies would be forced to pay more, increasing the base pay until a balance between supply and demand is met. Meanwhile, tipping is just short term gain but causes long term pain (perpetuating low base pay and reliance on tips).
> 
> ...


You could attempt to accomplish the same thing by avoiding gratuity based services altogether but you don't. Instead you use them, don't tip, and come here and brag about it.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

DriversAreMean said:


> I am a designer and I make 15-18,000 a month


hahaahahahahahahahaa. ahem. and posting here? OK, I have a long, orange bridge to sell you. Real cheap.


----------



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

mch said:


> You could attempt to accomplish the same thing by avoiding gratuity based services altogether but you don't. Instead you use them, don't tip, and come here and brag about it.


I don't know what each business decides to do with its internal practices. How pay is distributed among the workers is an internal issue and not a responsibility or obligation that should fall on the customers to worry about for them...


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

AveragePerson said:


> I don't know what each business decides to do with its internal practices. How pay is distributed among the workers is an internal issue and not a responsibility or obligation that should fall on the customers to worry about for them...


If you really cared about what you described above and weren't just full of crap (and a troll) you'd research and find out before you patronized those businesses.


----------



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

mch said:


> If you really cared about what you described above and weren't just full of crap (and a troll) you'd research and find out before you patronized those businesses.


I literally said I don't care enough to do that because it's not the responsibility of the customer to research (not like it's even publicly available) how they distribute pay each time I visit a business. That arrangement is between the owners and the staff. People pay to enjoy a product or service, not worry about other people's problems for them. When you go buy groceries in the supermarket, do you constantly worry and research how much those cashiers or farmers are being paid?

Like it or not, tip is by definition optional. That's a fact. I can tip 0 and walk out in front of them. Payment for the product or service is mandatory of course, otherwise, they can call the cops. In other words, tips are not something they should rely on as it's not within their control in terms of frequency or total amount. If there's not enough profit margin to pay the staff reasonable rates then they should increase the price of goods or services. Ultimately pay distribution is an internal matter between owners and staff.

By not tipping, regardless of what the internal pay distribution is, I'm actively applying market pressure to shift the pay structure from reliance on tips towards reasonable base rates. In fact, this market pressure is especially felt and therefore more effective on establishments that rely on tips.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

DriversAreMean said:


> I want anonymity on HERE!


I would too if I was as big of an ass as you.



AveragePerson said:


> Also, I reject the notion that not tipping equates to human garbage


Of course you do, its hard for human garbage to recognize human garbage.


----------



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

mch said:


> I almost feel sorry for you reading this. Its obvious you're deeply unhappy since all you keep bringing up is how much money you make. When you hit that 25k you arent gonna like what you see in the mirror anymore than you do now. I hate to break it to you.


There was a quote somewhere that says "People that think money can't buy happiness obviously never had real money".

Although it still scales, once you hit around 160k/yr, it starts to have diminishing returns on happiness. But a 5million/yr person is still happier than 500k/yr person on average, just less so.

"The latest to weigh in on the issue is Skandia International's Wealth Sentiment Monitor. It found that the global average "happiness income" is around $161,000 for 13 countries surveyed" - https://www.cnbc.com/id/50027184


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

AveragePerson said:


> I don't know what each business decides to do with its internal practices. How pay is distributed among the workers is an internal issue and not a responsibility or obligation that should fall on the customers to worry about for them...


We've got a working class tyrant over here.


----------



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

waldowainthrop said:


> We've got a working class tyrant over here.


So tell me, do you constantly worry about, research, and advocate for the pay of the workers that made everything you consume on a daily basis?

Your underwear from China, how much those tailors getting pay?
Your groceries from the supermarket, how much those farmers and cashiers getting paid?
Even your Smartphone that you probably used to read this right now, how much those factory workers getting pay?

Do you know? Did you ever spare a thought for them while you happily consume on a daily basis?


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

mch said:


> It's Honky Tonk


Oh god she was so hot!!!


----------



## IRME4EVER (Feb 17, 2020)

mch said:


> No class.
> 
> These people absolutely disgust me. Human garbage through and through. Its one of the reasons I like the models of instacart or doordash so much. Both services show the tenative tip up front. Hopefully more services start doing this. That way these non tipping people can get the standard low class low level service they deserve.
> 
> I think Im actually going to start intentionally taking one no tip door dash order per night. I'll do it while Im about to go on my break. I'll bring it home and put it in my freezer while I eat a nice warm dinner. Then deliver it afterwards. This will actually cost me money when you factor in time and expenses but it will be money well spent imo.


 Totally agree "Scumbags"!!


----------



## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

DriversAreMean said:


> I am a designer and I make 15-18,000 a month


In Rupee ??? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:


----------



## Blatherskite (Nov 30, 2016)

I could’ve been a millionaire designing quarrels, but after posting an initial insult I’m usually too bored and lazy to return to the thread and find out whom I’ve provoked.


----------



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Well enough to know that a manager for a small business restaurant only makes $14/hr in sf (this was three years ago, I'm sure it's not that much higher) Cooks not much more. And another cupcake spot (think cupcake wars), they were paying their manager slightly under $50k.


It is hard to imagine to survive with $50k in CA. To be honest, this is what my salary was when I first came to the States. $50k is barely a living wage in Houston, TX; not to mention in the state with the nation's highest cost of living.



DriversAreMean said:


> You're supposed to deliver the food not change is temperature unnaturally by putting it in the fridge or freezer. Not bring it into your home. Not play games. You see immoral. All this because sometimes me won't give you an extra $2? Do you realize how pathetic that is. A man's job is to earn money and yet as a woman I earn way more than you. instead of being obsessed with pocket change why don't you figure out a way to add significantly to your net worth and forget Uber and these little machinations of messing with peoples food?


I agree with the initial part about food tampering but it is quite difficult to follow with the second half. Do you really think a person's net worth is solely determined by income? What's the point of having all the money on this planet if you have nobody to share with? I always put family and friends first. Relationship of any kinds is built based on honesty, trust and respect. All these elements do not have price tags because they are priceless. I am no where close to be wealthy but I am thankful with what I have because this is what matters. There is no end to greed. One can never be happy without money but money does not necessarily make one happy. This is what my dad taught me.

Besides, your view on gender roles is quite obsolete. Both genders need to make a living. I don't see why men is entrusted with the financial responsibility by default. Unbalanced spouse income induces aberrations to family harmony. I have experienced this the first hand.


----------



## Wex (Feb 18, 2019)

Demon said:


> We don't live in a tipping culture.


All @mch is saying is that if you don't tip you'll be getting a service that matches that. Ie food in the freezer and an hour late


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

DriversAreMean said:


> Yes I am a designer but I don't want to say what because I want some anonymity. So yes I am a designer but I don't want to say of what. The range is because every day every week and every month is different but that's what I pull in every month. As far as my articulation it's because I'm doing talk to text and I don't sell expensive things but I saw a lot of inexpensive things.


Are you the designer of any of these things?


----------



## ConkeyCrack (Nov 19, 2019)

I usually deliver in "middle-upper class" neighborhoods where people usually tip. Yea, I get stiffed from time to time but for the most part, I recieve 15% tip of the order cost


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

DriversAreMean said:


> All this because sometimes me won't give you an extra $2? Do you realize how pathetic that is.


$2.00 is kind of a pathetic tip for food delivery &#129300;


----------



## Carlycat (Mar 31, 2020)

Demon said:


> That they understand tipping better than those who do.
> 
> How are you defining those terms?
> 
> ...


Tipping was invented because small business owners, such as the restaurant before chains and franchises, could afford to serve the public meals at a reasonable cost and hire servers to to serve them. Most servers barely make minimum wage and even less where tipping is the norm and servers rely on tips to make up the income the owner cannot afford to pay them. But the short memories and lack of education and the me me me culture wants to ruin that. Have fun traveling and finding something unique outside the chains.


----------



## El Impulsador (Apr 29, 2020)

ariel5466 said:


> I completely agree. But because we live in a tipping culture, which isn't going to change just by being an ass hole and not tipping, they aren't. So you need to tip. Or you're a scumbag.


He's definitely a scumbag. And a cheap scumbag I might add. The delivery person is assigned duties and a tip persuades the driver to go beyond the call of duty to show his appreciation back to customer. Cheap scumbags need to wait longer for deliveries because the going beyond the call of duty aspect is nonexistent due to lack of persuasion.

Whomever doesn't want to tip should just do ths services themselves. Pick up your own food and cook your own food to avoid restaurants. Why bother service workers with your cheapness? They have real paying, tipping customers to attend to.


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

El Impulsador said:


> He's definitely a scumbag. And a cheap scumbag I might add. The delivery person is assigned duties and a tip persuades the driver to go beyond the call of duty to show his appreciation back to customer. Cheap scumbags need to wait longer for deliveries because the going beyond the call of duty aspect is nonexistent due to lack of persuasion.
> 
> Whomever doesn't want to tip should just do ths services themselves. Pick up your own food and cook your own food to avoid restaurants. Why bother service workers with your cheapness? They have real paying, tipping customers to attend to.


Word. Thats what I'm talking about.

If you aren't gonna tip, maintain some self respect and dignity and just serve yourself.



25rides7daysaweek said:


> Rub your balls on it !!!!!!
> Might not get ya more money
> but will make you feel better about it
> Ill feel better too no video please
> We will take your word.....


----------



## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

Drivers actually arguing AGAINST receiving tips. Wow.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Woohaa said:


> Drivers actually arguing AGAINST receiving tips.


the lead troll has said they are not a driver. Fact check is out for a break.....


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Woohaa said:


> Drivers actually arguing AGAINST receiving tips. Wow.


There are drivers and the like that think tipping is included, tipping is above them &#128526;&#128526; all that Jazz.

but average person supposedly is a customer not a driver pretending to be one trollin


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> but average person supposedly is a customer not a driver pretending to be one trollin


I believe that almost all of the people who claim to have _never_ done gig economy work (but still post here) are lying. I am willing to make exceptions for a couple who seem exceptionally credible, but the rest of them are all drivers, former drivers, or at least driver applicants.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

sellkatsell44 said:


> @MiamiKid? &#128526;&#128526;
> 
> 
> I tip if it's the guy delivering my mattress or the lady that delivered my boxes of sparking soda. Even though I paid for the delivery. It's just extra bump. I was taught this way by my ma, not sure if it makes a difference that she didn't grow up here but even she knows.
> ...


Your restaurant owners there suck, then.

By federal law, the restaurant is NOT supposed to deduct the CC fee from the tip. Also, tips are not supposed to be shared with any staff subject to "normal" minimum wage or above workers. Only with those that LEGALLY are only making the $2.10 (or whatever it is now) rate that allows for tipping. Bartenders? Yep. Cooks? Nope.

I know restaurants and bars pull all sorts of frap with this, but it's highly illegal.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> Your restaurant owners there suck, then.
> 
> By federal law, the restaurant is NOT supposed to deduct the CC fee from the tip. Also, tips are not supposed to be shared with any staff subject to "normal" minimum wage or above workers. Only with those that LEGALLY are only making the $2.10 (or whatever it is now) rate that allows for tipping. Bartenders? Yep. Cooks? Nope.
> 
> I know restaurants and bars pull all sorts of frap with this, but it's highly illegal.


Lol @ your restaurant owners.

The tips are shared with everyone on staff including cooks.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Lol @ your restaurant owners.
> 
> The tips are shared with everyone on staff including cooks.


Like I said, most of them do this until the first disgruntled employee sues them over it. They're betting their employees are too stupid or lazy to look up the law on it.


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> I believe that almost all of the people who claim to have _never_ done gig economy work (but still post here) are lying. I am willing to make exceptions for a couple who seem exceptionally credible, but the rest of them are all drivers, former drivers, or at least driver applicants.


I agree. I cant see why non drivers would be on this site unless they drove at some point.

Go into the mind of these pax, customer trolls for a moment. Uber is just a small moment of your day. Is it really so impactfull that you have to now troll a site for uber drivers, something you can't relate too? Nah.

These people are in deep. When I say deep I mean in the steering wheel, their nails are imprinted From driving all day.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> Like I said, most of them do this until the first disgruntled employee sues them over it. They're betting their employees are too stupid or lazy to look up the law on it.


&#128076;&#127995;

just saying what I'm told from pple who work in restaurants. Never worked in one and I no longer do business banking.

maybe you should go and find those employees and grab some cases?


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> Like I said, most of them do this until the first disgruntled employee sues them over it. They're betting their employees are too stupid or lazy to look up the law on it.


Further, most of them, when there's a slow night, don't supplement the tips to make sure everyone gets paid at least the "normal" minimum wage, like they're supposed to.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

should be noted not all restaurants do 'pool tipping'. In fact, a minority do since other staff are paid on the basis they don't get tips.....

*Tip*-*pooling* is legal in *California*-as long as it is only employees sharing the tips. ... But this is permitted under *California tip law*. *Tip pooling* may include employees who have some supervisory duties, like shift supervisors. *Pooled* tips at a restaurant may also be shared with workers who do not provide table service


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Someone’s pulling a queen move with the quotes.

ps, everyone here in Cali is minimum wage and above, except for the cash only under the table spots.

I am not even going to pretend and front knowing what the law is but it’s funny when someone tries to school me on it and it’s not even 100% correct.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

sellkatsell44 said:


> &#128076;&#127995;
> 
> just saying what I'm told from pple who work in restaurants. Never worked in one and I no longer do business banking.
> 
> maybe you should go and find those employees and grab some cases?


I did that once for a bartender married to a guy I worked with ages ago....

Gave her a copy of the DoL web page that covers it. She still defended her employer.

Maybe the owners have a point.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

waldowainthrop said:


> I believe that almost all of the people who claim to have _never_ done gig economy work (but still post here) are lying. I am willing to make exceptions for a couple who seem exceptionally credible, but the rest of them are all drivers, former drivers, or at least driver applicants.


There is a few pple who have identified themselves as non drivers including myself. But I had came here to research and decided it's not worth it. Make more just doing part time retail then I would driving all things considered.

I see it no different from the drivers who drove but no longer drives since early 2020, Precovid? The sad ones are the ones that talk like they still do &#129402;&#129402; when they haven't in ages.

posers eh &#129335;&#127995;‍♀


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> The sad ones are the ones that talk like they still do &#129402;&#129402; when they haven't in ages.


what is sadder when they rarely mention this detail that A) they were never a driver or B) they did drive.....years ago. A variable that can change a viewpoint of an opinion. Things that make you go HUH......


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

SHalester said:


> what is sadder when they rarely mention this detail that A) they were never a driver or B) they did drive.....years ago. A variable that can change a viewpoint of an opinion. Things that make you go HUH......


They do!

They're also usually the ones that make assumptions.

I always set pple straight when pple assume I drive.

other then that I'm always writing from a customer perspective and I'm not one of those pple who have to hammer into others due to self consciousness of who I am. Like, woof woof?

pple can see it. No need to talk about it over and over like I'm trying to convince someone &#129396;&#129396;


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> They do!


Afraid that is just your opinion. There are numerous examples of where members in a thread did NOT know somebody with a 'strong' opinion was never a driver or hasn't been for YEARS. Whether you agree or not, it is a significant variable. And it is, for the most part, rarely mentioned and when it is the entire thread shifts. 
Nobody is going to keep track of every single back story. Specially when said members 'story' changes and/or socks are born.

<sigh>


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

SuzeCB said:


> Your restaurant owners there suck, then.
> 
> By federal law, the restaurant is NOT supposed to deduct the CC fee from the tip. Also, tips are not supposed to be shared with any staff subject to "normal" minimum wage or above workers. Only with those that LEGALLY are only making the $2.10 (or whatever it is now) rate that allows for tipping. Bartenders? Yep. Cooks? Nope.
> 
> I know restaurants and bars pull all sorts of frap with this, but it's highly illegal.





sellkatsell44 said:


> Lol @ your restaurant owners.
> 
> The tips are shared with everyone on staff including cooks.


I'm not trying to get into this back-and-forth, just sharing my personal experience as a server.

When I was a bowling alley server I got paid $7.25/hour minimum wage and kept most of my tips but a percentage went to the kitchen (I don't remember the number).

When I was a sports bar server I got paid $2.35/hour and we had to tip out the bartenders based on our alcohol sales. Again, I don't remember the number of the percentage, but it meant that if I waited on a table that ordered a bunch of booze and they didn't tip me, I wasn't just working for free. I was actually paying money out of my pocket in order to serve them.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

SHalester said:


> Afraid that is just your opinion. There are numerous examples of where members in a thread did NOT know somebody with a 'strong' opinion was never a driver or hasn't been for YEARS. Whether you agree or not, it is a significant variable. And it is, for the most part, rarely mentioned and when it is the entire thread shifts.
> Nobody is going to keep track of every single back story. Specially when said members 'story' changes and/or socks are born.
> 
> <sigh>


People stories change. I have seen so many edits where it wasn't just for grammar or to add on.

and I've seen pple who mock others for taking cheese take it themselves and admit to receiving it later after logic takes place that they get it given what they've talked freely about.

I just remember certain quirks that's all. I think hypocrisy stands out most to me. The bullies playing victim.

it's also very telling when someone get butt hurt over something that wasn't directed at them but they thought it was (maybe because there's truth to it?) not saying you just in case... you do as well...


----------



## BigBadDriver (Sep 12, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> What do you think about people who _never_ tip?
> 
> "It's a free country" or "we live in a society"?
> 
> We'll leave aside the question about whether tipping culture is equitable or good - what do you think about avowed non-tippers?


If course people who provide certain services should get a tip.

But when there's a "delivery fee" the equation gets cloudy. The customer has paid for the food and paid for it to be delivered. If they're going to pay extra on top of that, a certain level of service needs to be performed.

It sucks that the "driver" is caught in the middle.

If non-tippers drag your average pay down so low that its not worth it, then the job isn't worth your time...



Demon said:


> The entire thing. Tipping by definition is optional & supposed to be based on service.


Also, tipping is done after the service is performed. Putting in a tip before the service is performed is a defacto service fee. At best you're guessing that the service will ne adequately performed.


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

SHalester said:


> Afraid that is just your opinion. There are numerous examples of where members in a thread did NOT know somebody with a 'strong' opinion was never a driver or hasn't been for YEARS. Whether you agree or not, it is a significant variable. And it is, for the most part, rarely mentioned and when it is the entire thread shifts.
> Nobody is going to keep track of every single back story. Specially when said members 'story' changes and/or socks are born.
> 
> <sigh>


I don't know I think some that haven't been a driver for years but were at some point could provide useful information.

Like they can remind us that the lyft car stache was a requirement when Lyft first launched and was later changed to reduce embarrassment of the driver  @M62









They can also provide some lessons learned on the road for those of us still driving or plan to continue driving after crisis has calmed &#128587;‍♀

Sometimes when a song comes on that used to be on my uber Playlist i get nostalgia. Miss it.


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> I agree. I cant see why non drivers would be on this site unless they drove at some point.
> 
> Go into the mind of these pax, customer trolls for a moment. Uber is just a small moment of your day. Is it really so impactfull that you have to now troll a site for uber drivers, something you can't relate too? Nah.
> 
> These people are in deep. When I say deep I mean in the steering wheel, their nails are imprinted From driving all day.


Im with @waldowainthrop. I dont think these customer trolls actually exist. I think they're all former drivers of some capacity.

I believe they all kick puppies when nobody's looking too.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

mch said:


> Im with @waldowainthrop. I dont think these customer trolls actually exist. I think they're all former drivers of some capacity.
> 
> I believe they all kick puppies when nobody's looking too.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

BigBadDriver said:


> If non-tippers drag your average pay down so low that its not worth it, then the job isn't worth your time...


From a rational perspective, I completely agree with you. Drivers (or anyone in the service industry) should know their likely tipping rate and their likely tipping frequency, and then round down slightly. If after that estimate, the money isn't enough, they should find something else if they are able to.

But if we're talking tipping behavior, the blame is solely on the customer. Only the most unusually naïve customers don't know the value of a tip. The non-tippers are making their problem someone else's problem. (I'm leaving out of this equation service workers who are consistently bad at their jobs, because obviously.)

Workers, work like no tip is on the line. Customers, don't pretend that worker doesn't have an interest.

I just tipped my pizza delivery driver, for what it's worth.


----------



## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

mch said:


> *Consistent non tippers are like school on Sunday.*


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Lol @ your restaurant owners.
> 
> The tips are shared with everyone on staff including cooks.


Not in any restuarant I've worked.


----------



## BigBadDriver (Sep 12, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> From a rational perspective, I completely agree with you. Drivers (or anyone in the service industry) should know their likely tipping rate and their likely tipping frequency, and then round down slightly. If after that estimate, the money isn't enough, they should find something else if they are able to.
> 
> But if we're talking tipping behavior, the blame is solely on the customer. Only the most unusually naïve customers don't know the value of a tip. The non-tippers are making their problem someone else's problem. (I'm leaving out of this equation service workers who are consistently bad at their jobs, because obviously.)
> 
> ...


Using your example - you just tipped your pizza delivery driver.

Before apps, if you ordered delivery from a local pizzeria in NYC, there was almost never a delivery fee. The price of the pie was the same if you picked it up or had it delivered. It was almost unheard of that a pizza delivery guy got stiffed on a tip (same as yellow cab drivers). People understood that they were getting a service and should pay for it. Another difference is when you ordered regularly from one pizzeria, chances were you'd see the same delivery guy more than once. A lot of customers knew the delivery guys name and had a personal connection to them. That doesn't work with the apps.

Now with the apps, there's a delivery fee. At least one app also up-charges the customer a few % points over the restaurant's prices - playing middleman. Then you throw on a tip and the total delivery "cost" is almost equal to the food. So the customer takes it out on the delivery guy and doesn't tip.

There are certain high-volume pizzerias in Manhattan that don't pay their delivery guys a salary. They only get tips. But the tips are so consistently huge that it's a prized job - and they take out the garbage, restock the soda coolers. $300-400 a shift.

Of course that was before the pandemic...


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

BigBadDriver said:


> Using your example - you just tipped your pizza delivery driver.
> 
> Before apps, if you ordered delivery from a local pizzeria in NYC, there was almost never a delivery fee. The price of the pie was the same if you picked it up or had it delivered. It was almost unheard of that a pizza delivery guy got stiffed on a tip (same as yellow cab drivers). People understood that they were getting a service and should pay for it. Another difference is when you ordered regularly from one pizzeria, chances were you'd see the same delivery guy more than once. A lot of customers knew the delivery guys name and had a personal connection to them. That doesn't work with the apps.
> 
> ...


I haven't ordered pizza delivery in years, but I'm pretty sure there was a delivery fee, even before these apps. So maybe it's a regional or state thing.

I've read so many threads on here about lack of tipping, and it's infuriating how so many customers feel they don't need to tip.

Even if customers is charged a service fee, they need to tip for the service they received, which is delivery. If that is too much of s strain on their finances, they can prepare their own food or go pick it up themselves.

Delivery isn't a right It's a privilege to those who can afford it.


----------



## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Invisible said:


> Even if customers is charged a service fee, they need to tip for the service they received, which is delivery.


When the customer is getting charged a delivery fee of $25+ for the delivery, I can see how they would assume that the driver is getting paid well for the delivery. I'm sure they have no clue how little of that delivery fee the driver actually gets.

With that said........man, did I get stiffed tonight. Of the 9 deliveries that I did tonight, 7 of them were zero tip. Of the two that actually did tip, one of them was $1.40. It's been a long time since I've been stiffed that bad.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

ariel5466 said:


> I'm not trying to get into this back-and-forth, just sharing my personal experience as a server.
> 
> When I was a bowling alley server I got paid $7.25/hour minimum wage and kept most of my tips but a percentage went to the kitchen (I don't remember the number).
> 
> When I was a sports bar server I got paid $2.35/hour and we had to tip out the bartenders based on our alcohol sales. Again, I don't remember the number of the percentage, but it meant that if I waited on a table that ordered a bunch of booze and they didn't tip me, I wasn't just working for free. I was actually paying money out of my pocket in order to serve them.


You're giving examples of what I was saying.

At $7.25, tips are over and above what the "normal" minimum wage is. They can require tips to be pooled with kitchen staff, who make the same hourly rate.

The $2.35 minimum is specifically for employees who are/can expect to make the bulk of their earnings in tips. Those tips, unless state law says differently, can be pooled, but ONLY with others in positions where there is the same expectation.... bartenders fit this description. Kitchen staff members do not.


----------



## Ubercadabra (Oct 20, 2019)

mch said:


> No class.
> 
> These people absolutely disgust me. Human garbage through and through. Its one of the reasons I like the models of instacart or doordash so much. Both services show the tenative tip up front. Hopefully more services start doing this. That way these non tipping people can get the standard low class low level service they deserve.
> 
> I think Im actually going to start intentionally taking one no tip door dash order per night. I'll do it while Im about to go on my break. I'll bring it home and put it in my freezer while I eat a nice warm dinner. Then deliver it afterwards. This will actually cost me money when you factor in time and expenses but it will be money well spent imo.


Best tip ?
Find another job :biggrin:


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

BigBadDriver said:


> Using your example - you just tipped your pizza delivery driver.
> 
> Before apps, if you ordered delivery from a local pizzeria in NYC, there was almost never a delivery fee. The price of the pie was the same if you picked it up or had it delivered. It was almost unheard of that a pizza delivery guy got stiffed on a tip (same as yellow cab drivers). People understood that they were getting a service and should pay for it. Another difference is when you ordered regularly from one pizzeria, chances were you'd see the same delivery guy more than once. A lot of customers knew the delivery guys name and had a personal connection to them. That doesn't work with the apps.
> 
> ...


I'm from NYC and DC, so I get how all of the pre-app delivery economy works (although I've never delivered food myself). These days, I still mostly prefer ordering direct from a restaurant, because I don't like the apps. Some restaurants are app-only, but one of my local pizza chains isn't, at least.

In DC, we definitely knew one of the local delivery people for a Thai place for years - it was nice.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> When the customer is getting charged a delivery fee of $25+ for the delivery, I can see how they would assume that the driver is getting paid well for the delivery. I'm sure they have no clue how little of that delivery fee the driver actually gets.
> 
> With that said........man, did I get stiffed tonight. Of the 9 deliveries that I did tonight, 7 of them were zero tip. Of the two that actually did tip, one of them was $1.40. It's been a long time since I've been stiffed that bad.


A $25 delvery fee seems extreme, unless a high end restaurant.. I'm talking about a lousy $2 delivery fee.

Wow on 7 not tipping!! I'm sorry that happened to you. That's despicable of them not to tip. The $1.40 is very low, but at least it's something. I'll never understand how people can order delivery and not tip for these apps. Yet most everyone will tip their pizza delivery guy.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Ubercadabra said:


> Best tip ?
> Find another job :biggrin:


I have another job. Also, long before I ever touched a gig app I thought non tippers were low class shitbags who had relations with family members.


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## For a Few Dollars More (Aug 9, 2020)

You can see the name of the restaueant and the delivery address on the ping, simply reject crappy restaurants and ghetto customers to minimize the chances of not getting tipped.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

For a Few Dollars More said:


> You can see the name of the restaueant and the delivery address on the ping, simply reject crappy restaurants and ghetto customers to minimize the chances of not getting tipped.


Have you done delivery? What shocked me was being in an upper affluent area, like where people make $200,000 per year or above and sometimes they're the worst tippers.

I had to wait at Bdubbs for a large wings order. I texted guy to update him on wait. I had to walk up large hill to his big house at night because driveway full, and it was a circular drive.

Ya know how much he tipped me? NADA, ZILCH, ZERO!! I received best tips from middle class (lower middle and middle middle). The upper middle class were sometimes the cheapest! And I remember low income who had enough class to give me $1 or $2.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Ubercadabra said:


> Best tip ?
> Find another job :biggrin:


Or tips are included &#128526;&#128526; (Miamikid and his fan(s))


----------



## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

they see me trollin' 
They hatin'


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> I don't know I think some that haven't been a driver for years but were at some point could provide useful information.


Possibily, for a certain amount of time; but over time, with changes they'd have less and less to discuss. It's an important variable I think. And each time it has come up there is a significant 'shift' in the thread from posters who had no idea..... But this is a totally open forum, so you get what you get.


----------



## tmart (Oct 30, 2016)

KevinJohnson said:


> Do your non tippers come from a specific restaurant? Or is that restaurant usually known for tipping customers?


I don't get it my average tip is $3 bad service $1 good service five or more. There was a study done once that said conservative men are the highest tippers


----------



## KevinJohnson (Mar 23, 2020)

tmart said:


> I don't get it my average tip is $3 bad service $1 good service five or more. There was a study done once that said conservative men are the highest tippers


People are tipping on the food. The app defaults to 20%. A large sushi order can tip $14.

Had a stacked order from a high end pizza place. The kind that sells $22 pizzas. 
Lady hands me 8 pizzas. That double order paid $42 for 25 mins.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

KevinJohnson said:


> The app defaults to 20%


not only that it defaults to the order total. I always adjust to remove the del/serv fees from the total amount & then tip. During the CV19 mess 20%. Normal times, if ever, back to 15%.


----------



## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

You mean Sunday school? Don’t you like that? Don’t you like God?


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> You mean Sunday school? Don't you like that? Don't you like God?


----------



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> There are drivers and the like that think tipping is included, tipping is above them &#128526;&#128526; all that Jazz.
> 
> but average person supposedly is a customer not a driver pretending to be one trollin


Drivers advocating for things in the interest of (short sighted/instant gratification) drivers are right and proper. But as soon as a customer advocates for anything in the interest of the customer (and drivers long term), they are trolling...


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

AveragePerson said:


> Drivers advocating for things in the interest of (short sighted/instant gratification) drivers are right and proper. But as soon as a customer advocates for anything in the interest of the customer (and drivers long term), they are trolling...


Show me where you're advocating for better, fair wages other than being a cheap "tip is included/I would tip if they don't ask for it" cheapo.

besides, you never did address any of the other points I've made with your assumption of 13%.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

AveragePerson said:


> Drivers advocating for things in the interest of (short sighted/instant gratification) drivers are right and proper. But as soon as a customer advocates for anything in the interest of the customer (and drivers long term), they are trolling...


Think about *where you are. *This is a driver's forum, ffs.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> Think about *where you are.*


they say a disgruntled driver created this site for....wait for it.....disgruntled drivers. Huh.


----------



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Show me where you're advocating for better, fair wages other than being a cheap "tip is included/I would tip if they don't ask for it" cheapo.
> 
> besides, you never did address any of the other points I've made with your assumption of 13%.


First and foremost, what is "better and fair wages"?
Is it some arbitrary number that different people pull from their behinds or is it based on objective metrics like 'fair market value'? To reasonable people, it's the latter.

Well what is fair market value? Simply what people are willing to pay. The equilibrium balance between supply and demand. Which means that if I don't tip and the base pay is below the equilibrium balance, it contributes to the workers seeking out more rewarding opportunities (decreasing supply while increasing/maintaining existing demand), and once that balance is shifted from more demand than supply of available workers, the base pay would naturally increase to compensate for the retention and recruitment of workers until the equilibrium is once again established. This transition would be better for everyone, including workers who stayed/new that would no longer would be reliant on tips... but it can't start without the customers shifting away from tipping. If I tip, it would be encouraging such practices. By not tipping, I'm shifting the burden of employee pay from the customer to the employer and this is most effectively felt in establishments that rely on customer tips to subsidize their staff pays...

I also have no idea what points you made on the 13% you are referring to that wants addressed. You have to be specific if you want me to address it...


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Man I must have just delivered Ruby Tuesdays to the reincarnation of old blue eyes himself.

&#127926;Luck be a lady, tonight&#127926;


----------



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

mch said:


> Man I must have just delivered Ruby Tuesdays to the reincarnation of old blue eyes himself.
> 
> &#127926;Luck be a lady, tonight&#127926;
> 
> View attachment 496511


Base + peak pay is enough for that order. Should of went back and refund the customer while educating them on the toxicity of tipping.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

AveragePerson said:


> First and foremost, what is "better and fair wages"?
> Is it some arbitrary number that different people pull from their behinds or is it based on objective metrics like 'fair market value'? To reasonable people, it's the latter.
> 
> Well what is fair market value? Simply what people are willing to pay. The equilibrium balance between supply and demand. Which means that if I don't tip and the base pay is below the equilibrium balance, it contributes to the workers seeking out more rewarding opportunities (decreasing supply while increasing/maintaining existing demand), and once that balance is shifted from more demand than supply of available workers, the base pay would naturally increase to compensate for the retention and recruitment of workers until the equilibrium is once again established. This transition would be better for everyone, including workers who stayed/new that would no longer would be reliant on tips... but it can't start without the customers shifting away from tipping. If I tip, it would be encouraging such practices. By not tipping, I'm shifting the burden of employee pay from the customer to the employer and this is most effectively felt in establishments that rely on customer tips to subsidize their staff pays...


A lot of excuses is what I'm hearing.

fair wage to me is something one can live on. I'm not even talking about $10 per delivery or something high, as I know some pple might tip baller.

just a few dollars minimum of appreciation. If you know it's a restaurant that is of greater distance than 10-15 minutes, maybe up it to $5.

because I guarantee that the delivery company is not paying them more than a few bucks.

If you don't want cold food, than there ya go.

if you don't, maybe you should wait excessive time as drivers then have to stack deliveries to make it worthwhile.

my two cents as your buddy would say.



AveragePerson said:


> Base + peak pay is enough for that order. Should of went back and refund the customer while educating them on the toxicity of tipping.


Is peak always there @mch?

otherwise it's $3 base.

and thank goodness for that customer tipping. Makes up for the other @MiamiKid thinkers, I mean averageperson and groupies.


----------



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> A lot of excuses is what I'm hearing.
> 
> fair wage to me is something one can live on. I'm not even talking about $10 per delivery or something high, as I know some pple might tip baller.
> 
> ...


If you define "fair wage" as livable wage, that's neither accomplishable nor fair. Why? Because it's a complete contradiction to the laws of supply and demand.

If everyone is paid a "livable wage", that would mean the people supplying & producing you the cheap goods/services that you consume on a daily basis would get a significant raise and that would increase the cost of the goods and service to the consumer (you). Which means your livable wage is no longer livable because the cost of everything else went up. So you asked for higher, then cost of living goes up again. The cycle repeats because it's not a issue of wage being low but rather the labor market assigned the value of your work as 'low value' and therefore the pay (in purchasing power) is a reflection of that...

For example, if the sweat shop worker is only producing $12/hr worth of value to the employer, how can the employer justify paying a "livable wage" to that worker? He would have to raise the cost of goods to compensate. Which means your livable wage is not so livable anymore since cost of everything else goes up...


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

AveragePerson said:


> Base + peak pay is enough for that order. Should of went back and refund the customer while educating them on the toxicity of tipping.


Reading your schlock is like being transported back to the 90s and hearing the macarena for the 965,755th time.


----------



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

mch said:


> Reading your schlock is like being transported back to the 90s and hearing the macarena for the 965,755th time.


Gotta pound the message home for the slow ones that fails to comprehend the laws of supply and demand and how tipping is fundamentally and objectively bad for everyone because they are blinded by short term gratification


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

AveragePerson said:


> If you define "fair wage" as livable wage, that's neither accomplishable nor fair. Why? Because it's a complete contradiction to the laws of supply and demand.
> 
> If everyone is paid a "livable wage", that would mean the people supplying & producing you the cheap goods/services that you consume on a daily basis would get a significant raise and that would increase the cost of the goods and service to the consumer (you). Which means your livable wage is no longer livable because the cost of everything else went up. So you asked for higher, then cost of living goes up again. The cycle repeats because it's not a issue of wage being low but rather the labor market assigned the value of your work as 'low value' and therefore the pay (in purchasing power) is a reflection of that...
> 
> For example, if the sweat shop worker is only producing $12/hr worth of value to the employer, how can the employer justify paying a "livable wage" to that worker? He would have to raise the cost of goods to compensate. Which means your livable wage is not so livable anymore since cost of everything else goes up...


It's unfair to have products in the market that is not attainable without credit or layaway on what the mass consumer makes.

because the company has a duty to its shareholders to make a penny however they can, including allowing pple who are yes uneducated in this sense and don't know better (like when they think they get to defer mortgage payments without it being due in the end of that 3-4 months)

it's similar to a company paying a poor shmuck way below what market rate is by making them feel important by giving them additional tasks without the wage or the title to match in guise of "loyalty" the company ain't loyal to their workers... not really.


----------



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> It's unfair to have products in the market that is not attainable without credit or layaway on what the mass consumer makes.
> 
> because the company has a duty to its shareholders to make a penny however they can, including allowing pple who are yes uneducated in this sense and don't know better (like when they think they get to defer mortgage payments without it being due in the end of that 3-4 months)
> 
> it's similar to a company paying a poor shmuck way below what market rate is by making them feel important by giving them additional tasks without the wage or the title to match in guise of "loyalty" the company ain't loyal to their workers... not really.


What is not attainable without credit? Or are you saying it's unfair that something exist that have value beyond what you can personally afford without borrowing?


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

AveragePerson said:


> What is not attainable without credit? Or are you saying it's unfair that something exist that have value beyond what you can personally afford without borrowing?


Basics without credit.

not even talking about the extras.

just talking day to day living expenses while saving for retirement. Unless you wanna support the old or off them? You seem like the latter then former.


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Basics without credit.
> 
> not even talking about the extras.
> 
> just talking day to day living expenses while saving for retirement. Unless you wanna support the old or off them? You seem like the latter then former.


Why are you indulging this asshat?


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## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Basics without credit.
> 
> not even talking about the extras.
> 
> just talking day to day living expenses while saving for retirement. Unless you wanna support the old or off them? You seem like the latter then former.


That already exist, it's called welfare programs. Just about any job could give you the basics. Basics is not living in some of the most expensive cost of living cities in the world, eating food, wearing clothes, and purchasing phones you can't afford...


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

@mch, let's derail this shit


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

ariel5466 said:


> @mch, let's derail this shit
> 
> View attachment 496525
> 
> ...


Hell yea!


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> @mch, let's derail this shit
> 
> View attachment 496525
> 
> ...


Think I'm having a seizure &#128565;&#128171;


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

mch said:


> Why are you indulging this asshat?


He or she hasn't hit below the belt yet unlike some of the other pple I get into debates with. But you're right, clearly trolling.

he or she isn't even aware of the fact that pple who play the game often get the cheese (they'll deny it) vs the people who need the cheese often still end up waiting for it.

welfare 



AveragePerson said:


> That already exist, it's called welfare programs. Just about any job could give you the basics. Basics is not living in some of the most expensive cost of living cities in the world, eating food, wearing clothes, and purchasing phones you can't afford...


You don't understand jack.

yes there are a few of those. A lot more though, can not afford day to day living expenses without going on some sort of credit.

you're just as bad as someone who puts people down for going for the "cheeese" but received the same cheese themselves. Hypocrisy and posers.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)




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## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> He or she hasn't hit below the belt yet unlike some of the other pple I get into debates with. But you're right, clearly trolling.
> 
> he or she isn't even aware of the fact that pple who play the game often get the cheese (they'll deny it) vs the people who need the cheese often still end up waiting for it.
> 
> ...


Basics (food & shelter) is about surviving, not living... You can survive with the basics (although it might not be enjoyable) even on very low income and/or supplemented with welfare by living within your means. Just gotta budget and spend your money wisely.

an arbitrary raise to pay is not going to solve the problem because the thing you produce is still the same, with the same inherent value to the market. Only way is for the goods/service you produce to go up in prices too and that defeats the point because everything else you consume goes up in prices as well. If you want to upgrade your situation, you gotta become more desirable to the market. Look at jobs that are highly sought after then figure out a way to acquire the certification required to get that job. Alternatively, you can start by looking at what people want or a problem that people have then figure out a way to solve it in a way that makes economic sense for people then your income will naturally rise.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)




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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> View attachment 496529
> 
> 
> View attachment 496533
> ...


Now this is a quality post.

Superb











mch said:


> All hail the welfare queen


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

AveragePerson said:


> Basics (food & shelter) is about surviving, not living... You can survive with the basics (although it might not be enjoyable) even on very low income and/or supplemented with welfare by living within your means. Just gotta budget and spend your money wisely.
> 
> an arbitrary raise to pay is not going to solve the problem because the thing you produce is still the same, with the same inherent value to the market. Only way is for the goods/service you produce to go up in prices too and that defeats the point because everything else you consume goes up in prices as well. If you want to upgrade your situation, you gotta become more desirable to the market. Look at jobs that are highly sought after then figure out a way to acquire the certification required to get that job. Alternatively, you can start by looking at what people want or a problem that people have then figure out a way to solve it in a way that makes economic sense for people then your income will naturally rise.


At least Miamikid was entertaining even if he was a cheapo.

I give.

have fun holding onto your excuse.

you remind me of those posers that way they'll tip but they don't want to tip people who expect a tip &#128580;&#128580;&#128580;

all talk and no action.

but at least you're (somewhat) honest about being cheap.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

AveragePerson said:


> Basics (food & shelter) is about surviving, not living... You can survive with the basics (although it might not be enjoyable) even on very low income and/or supplemented with welfare by living within your means. Just gotta budget and spend your money wisely.
> 
> an arbitrary raise to pay is not going to solve the problem because the thing you produce is still the same, with the same inherent value to the market. Only way is for the goods/service you produce to go up in prices too and that defeats the point because everything else you consume goes up in prices as well. If you want to upgrade your situation, you gotta become more desirable to the market. Look at jobs that are highly sought after then figure out a way to acquire the certification required to get that job. Alternatively, you can start by looking at what people want or a problem that people have then figure out a way to solve it in a way that makes economic sense for people then your income will naturally rise.























Mkang14 said:


> Now this is a quality post.
> 
> Superb
> View attachment 496540
> ...


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## For a Few Dollars More (Aug 9, 2020)

Invisible said:


> Have you done delivery? What shocked me was being in an upper affluent area, like where people make $200,000 per year or above and sometimes they're the worst tippers.
> 
> I had to wait at Bdubbs for a large wings order. I texted guy to update him on wait. I had to walk up large hill to his big house at night because driveway full, and it was a circular drive.
> 
> Ya know how much he tipped me? NADA, ZILCH, ZERO!! I received best tips from middle class (lower middle and middle middle). The upper middle class were sometimes the cheapest! And I remember low income who had enough class to give me $1 or $2.


Yes I do deliver food, have been doing it for a couple of years now. You don't get tipped if you deliver food from McDonalds, Burger Kinger, Popeyes etc to the ghetto neighborhoods. I had to learnt it the hard way.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

For a Few Dollars More said:


> Yes I do deliver food, have been doing it for a couple of years now. You don't get tipped if you deliver food from McDonalds, Burger Kinger, Popeyes etc to the ghetto neighborhoods. I had to learnt it the hard way.


People too lazy to go and get food themselves from places like that, not surprised.

though we did have someone whose a driver here claim to tip on his orders from Starbucks. &#129396;&#129396;


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## For a Few Dollars More (Aug 9, 2020)

sellkatsell44 said:


> People too lazy to go and get food themselves from places like that, not surprised.
> 
> though we did have someone whose a driver here claim to tip on his orders from Starbucks. &#129396;&#129396;


No, if you deliver a bunch of Big Macs to a nice neighborgood, you do get tipped. The problem is the ghetto areas. I avoid those people. I have nothing against those people, I want to make money.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

For a Few Dollars More said:


> No, if you deliver a bunch of Big Macs to a nice neighborgood, you do get tipped. The problem is the ghetto areas. I avoid those people. I have nothing against those people, I want to make money.


I've never delivered but I'll take your word on it.

Those kind of food for me has to be hot.

I rather pick it up myself then order and wait for the fries to get cold &#129335;&#127995;‍♀


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

Ubereats is full of tippers.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I have been to several restaurants that add 18-20% gratuity to all parties of 6 or more. When I go to one of those restaurants with less than 6 people I get excellent service. When I go to the same restaurant and often the same server where gratuity is added I almost always get poorer service. I used to work in the restaurant industry, I have had servers tell me right out that they will give less service when gratuity is included so they can give their other tables better service. If gratuity is included and I get poor service I will complain to management after I leave. If it happens again I won't be back.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Wait.... You didn't go to school on Sundays? 


Son of a *****....


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## SAM.O (Mar 23, 2019)

mch said:


> No class.
> 
> These people absolutely disgust me. Human garbage through and through. Its one of the reasons I like the models of instacart or doordash so much. Both services show the tenative tip up front. Hopefully more services start doing this. That way these non tipping people can get the standard low class low level service they deserve.
> 
> I think Im actually going to start intentionally taking one no tip door dash order per night. I'll do it while Im about to go on my break. I'll bring it home and put it in my freezer while I eat a nice warm dinner. Then deliver it afterwards. This will actually cost me money when you factor in time and expenses but it will be money well spent imo.


I still don't understand why you people feel entitled to other people's money.
I don't remember seeing tips in the Uber service contract. You get paid for the service you offer, a tip is bonus, when you get it.



mch said:


> Because people know that most service workers get a sizeable portion of their income from tips. Most non tippers arent sitting there measuring the quality of servive they are getting. They have 0 intention of ever leaving a tip. They do it because they can get away with it and save a few bucks. They are taking advantage of the system. To me thats a low class move.
> 
> Is tipping in general a crappy system? Sure. But a lot of these service based buisnesses, especially the smaller ones probably wouldnt exist if they had to pay their employees a fair wage. I don't even look at tipping as a means to necessarily improve service. More like maintain it. I'd much rather get a pizza delivered from the good local place down the street rather than have it be overtaken by Pappa Johns. So yea, maybe ill pay a little more to subsidize their workers.
> 
> Also when I rant about tipping Im not even really talking about me not getting tips. I only drive/deliver food part time. If I don't get a tip Im over it pretty quick. It really gets me mad when I think about the people who do service based jobs for a living and get taken advantage of by parasites on a daily basis. Because thats what habitual non tippers are, parasites.


So, you're saying I'm a parasite for not helping a company pay its employees, am I correct?
If a company won't pay its employees a living wage, that isn't employment, that's just poverty exploitation. 
If you're so concerned about it, then go see your law makers about making a living minimum pay mandatory.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

SAM.O said:


> I still don't understand why you people feel entitled to other people's money.
> I don't remember seeing tips in the Uber service contract. You get paid for the service you offer, a tip is bonus, when you get it.


IKR if they don't like the gig they can get a job with high tips, I know 1 girl who is a bar tender and is so loaded with tips due to her smiles that she banks $110k a year. Even Limos don't see much tips, only once in a while will they see a huge one.



SAM.O said:


> I still don't understand why you people feel entitled to other people's money.
> I don't remember seeing tips in the Uber service contract. You get paid for the service you offer, a tip is bonus, when you get it.
> 
> 
> ...


He is referring to the tipping part, Uber being a parasite has nothing to do with free will of Passengers tipping or not.


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

SAM.O said:


> I still don't understand why you people feel entitled to other people's money.
> I don't remember seeing tips in the Uber service contract. You get paid for the service you offer, a tip is bonus, when you get it.


Oh.... You came back here with new account. :biggrin: :biggrin: 
Don't bother creating new account to say same s....t.


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## SAM.O (Mar 23, 2019)

Wildgoose said:


> Oh.... You came back here with new account. :biggrin: :biggrin:
> Don't bother creating new account to say same s....t.


Nope, no new account for me.
Just responding to 2 different entitled adults that feel the world owes them sth for breathing.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

SAM.O said:


> I still don't understand why you people feel entitled to other people's money.
> I don't remember seeing tips in the Uber service contract. You get paid for the service you offer, a tip is bonus, when you get it.
> 
> 
> ...


Instead of going to my local lawmakers and asking them to alter the current system of capitalism completley. I'm just gonna tip well instead of pretending that being a low class cheapskate and not tipping will somehow combat poverty exploitation.

Also before you call me "entitled" I suggest you read everything Ive written on this subject and then apologize for being a ******** and using the same tired ass insult (entitled) that non tipping cheapskates use to justify their ways.

You won't find me complaining about not being tipped or saying anything that indicates I feel entitled to anyone else's $$. I don't do this for a living. I just think people who don't tip or don't tip well are losers is all.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> What do you think about people who _never_ tip?
> 
> "It's a free country" or "we live in a society"?
> 
> We'll leave aside the question about whether tipping culture is equitable or good - what do you think about avowed non-tippers?


I don't like tipping culture. Just look at the upset it causes!

A much better idea would be simply to charge customers more and pay workers fairly. Instead of underpaying workers and hoping that customers will make up the balance though their generosity and the goodness of their hearts. Of course that's going to lead to disappointment!


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> A much better idea would be simply to charge customers more and pay workers fairly.


And what would happen if a business did exactly that, but none of his/her competitors did? Ooopsie.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

SHalester said:


> And what would happen if a business did exactly that, but none of his/her competitors did? Ooopsie.


It's only an idea; that's not to say it isn't a chimera.

Who ever said philosophy was useful? &#129335;‍♂


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

the real question would the paying customers 'eat' a 20%+ increase in the product/services?

History shows they won't.


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## SAM.O (Mar 23, 2019)

mch said:


> Instead of going to my local lawmakers and asking them to alter the current system capitalism completley. I'm just gonna tip well instead of pretending that being a low class cheapskate and not tipping will somehow combat poverty exploitation.
> 
> Also before you call me "entitled" I suggest you read everything Ive written on this subject and then apologize for being a @@@@@@@@ and using the same tired ass insult (entitled) that non tipping cheapskates use to justify their ways.
> 
> You won't find me complaining about not being tipped or saying anything that indicates I feel entitled to anyone else's $$. I don't do this for a living. I just think people who don't tip or don't tip well are losers is all.


Well, to each his own. My money, my choice on where, how and when I choose to spend it.
No Mother Teresa wannabe or sympathiser can shame me into how I should spend it.
If you care so much about the needy, how many homeless people are you sheltering in your house, you Goody 2 shoes?


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I don't like tipping culture. Just look at the upset it causes!
> 
> A much better idea would be simply to charge customers more and pay workers fairly. Instead of underpaying workers and hoping that customers will make up the balance though their generosity and the goodness of their hearts. Of course that's going to lead to disappointment!


Im in 100% agreement with this. Its just that's not the current reality here in the US.

Come on fish, as an uber driver I know you probably hook the little ceasars guy up&#128514;



SAM.O said:


> Well, to each his own. My money, my choice on where, how and when I choose to spend it.
> No Mother Teresa wannabe or sympathiser can shame me into how I should spend it.
> If you care so much about the needy, how many homeless people are you sheltering in your house, you Goody 2 shoes?


Well actually tecnically Im homeless myself but I still tip well.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

mch said:


> Im in 100% agreement with this. Its just that's not the current reality here in the US.
> 
> Come on fish, as an uber driver I know you probably hook the little ceasars guy up&#128514;
> 
> ...


I have fired the Little Caesar's guys! All of them! The chance of them delivering the pizza hot was around 1 in 5, and life's just too short to be playing russian roulette with cold pizza.


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## SAM.O (Mar 23, 2019)

SHalester said:


> And what would happen if a business did exactly that, but none of his/her competitors did? Ooopsie.


That's the difference between Supreme and ..... examples abound.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

SAM.O said:


> That's the difference between Supreme and ..... examples abound.


wut? I so don't want cooties from a dirty sock, thanks.


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## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

Why are y'all feeding the troll? He's not gonna tip you, so make him fetch his own food.


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## SAM.O (Mar 23, 2019)

NauticalWheeler said:


> Why are y'all feeding the troll? He's not gonna tip you, so make him fetch his own food.


Nobody forced you to sign up for the service.
Calling me a troll because I disagree with your point of view? 
I really want to return the favour of the name calling, but .....


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

SAM.O said:


> Nobody forced you to sign up for the service.
> Calling me a troll because I disagree with your point of view?
> I really want to return the favour of the name calling, but .....


I called you a d head and a low class parasite. Not a troll. You also used the word "entitled" as a pejorative. So you're already in the name calling game.

Troll


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## SAM.O (Mar 23, 2019)

mch said:


> I called you a d head and a low class parasite. Not a troll. You also used the word "entitled" as a pejorative. So you're already in the name calling game.
> 
> Troll


There's nothing belittling about the word 'entitled' as used by me in my previous posts because you are treating a tip as a right. That makes you feel entitled to it but you are not. 
The only right you have as a worker or service provider is the pre agreed wage, anything else is a bonus.



mch said:


> I called you a d head and a low class parasite. Not a troll. You also used the word "entitled" as a pejorative. So you're already in the name calling game.
> 
> Troll


Nice response from a dimwit who doesn't know the meaning of the word parasite.
I'm happy to educate you for free, because a paying customer is not a parasite, but who you have grief with is the corporation benefiting from the low wage employees.
A little bit of common sense would have shown you that your anger is misplaced, you thick skulled entitled brat.
Grow up will ya?!?!?!?!?!?


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## Carlycat (Mar 31, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> You can't be an entrepreneur if you are this bad at selling your own story.
> 
> I guess I should try to steer this back on topic. People who don't tip write nonsense like the above. &#128517;


I think he might be embarrassed to say what he designs.


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## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

Feel the vibe from here to Asia

Dip trip, flip fantasia

Give me more....of that funky 🎷


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

SAM.O said:


> There's nothing belittling about the word 'entitled' as used by me in my previous posts because you are treating a tip as a right. That makes you feel entitled to it but you are not.
> The only right you have as a worker or service provider is the pre agreed wage, anything else is a bonus.
> 
> 
> ...


Theres plenty of grief to go around. Its not mutually exclusive.

You probably litter, cut in line, and park in handicapped parking spaces too. Im getting that vibe from you.



NauticalWheeler said:


> Why are y'all feeding the troll? He's not gonna tip you, so make him fetch his own food.


Trolls need to be fed a steady diet of deeeezzz nutzzzz!


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## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

🎶Deez nutz have seen a lot of trolls, but theyre never gonna see another troll like they have with you 🎵


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## Classified (Feb 8, 2018)

Well that was an entertaining read, 

if you sign up to work for a company, your told what the pay rate is, you can either accept it or find something better,

if you provide good service, then you get a tip. Is that how it works? But how do you provide a good service to justify getting a tip? You pick food up and deliver it, pretty basic stuff, drive from point a to point b. You can’t really go above and beyond,

if pay is too low. It’s not the customer’s responsibility to pay more. But the delivery fee should be increased, Tipping is a very strange concept to me, nobody tips ever, it’s frowned upon,I wouldn’t decline a tip though, and have had a few, normally for doing something that im not paid to do, or even expected to do,

Here all workers are subject to min wage laws, it’s all factored into the prices of the stuff you buy, it’s up to the owner of the business to pay staff. And the more experience you have, the more you get paid,

But it seems over there people are willing to work for low pay, it seems businesses are exploiting workers, 
Including Uber, rather than them put prices up, they want customers to pay a tip, it shouldn’t be that way, 

as others have said here, you don’t tip the makers of your phones or cars, or amazon purchases. But you buying these products are supporting low wages, and you don’t get rich giving your money away. And what’s the point of getting a tip, just to give it away and tip someone else, it doesn’t help anyone, the money just goes around in circles.

There’s only one instance where I will tip, and that is to the pizza delivery driver who has to walk up a hundred stairs to get to my door. I think because it’s taken him longer to do my delivery, he’s had to take a income reduction and needs that extra bit. Which the delivery fee I’ve paid doesn’t cover,


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

School on Sundays? So you learn about God and tipping?


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Dezzzz Nutzzzzz


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

ok, I call unicorn. 😎 :thumbup:


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## SAM.O (Mar 23, 2019)

mch said:


> You probably litter, cut in line, and park in handicapped parking spaces too. Im getting that vibe fr


Nope, I am a very responsible citizen, raised with a high moral standard and was encouraged to think for myself, so, you wouldn't see me following the crowd. I have a reason for everything I do.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

SAM.O said:


> Nope, I am a very responsible citizen, raised with a high moral standard and was encouraged to think for myself, so, you wouldn't see me following the crowd. I have a reason for everything I do.


I think you need to smoke a jazz cigarette and listen to some Allman Brothers. You're way too serious.


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