# Ants Anonymous.



## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

So I really enjoyed being a non-ant, but my take-home really decreased drastically.

I’m blaming you guys. 😁 You broke me and now I look down at everything below $2/mile.

The problem in my case is that though it’s crazy busy at the Shore in Summer and in September, it seems pretty much dead during the rest of the year (something I was worried about when I just started).

My message is - don’t laugh at the ants, one of whom I’m about to become. When I first started, I was doing $1/mile. Which was stupid because it was busy season and I could’ve been making more; but as a noob I wasn’t even using UE then, just straight DD.

The past couple of weeks, however, had shown me it’s a whole new ballgame. For one thing, I get a UE ping maybe once in an hour and a half, and they’re not as high as they used to be. A $2/mile maybe once in 2-3 hours, if at all. 

DD is busy with below $1/mile, which I still won’t take. I do take $1.5/mile and am considering $1/mile for really short runs.

This is not me ruining the market. It’s me objectively looking at the situation. I blamed DD, but now I think it’s the customers who are getting nervous about the economy and cutting costs. They tip less and they pick up their own food more.

So if you, too, are becoming an ant, come join me and stand up to the bullying by people making $100 an hour and laughing at us! Admitting we drive for peanuts is the first step to recovery! 😂


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## Mad_Jack_Flint (Nov 19, 2020)

It depends on location…

One college town I drive in DD does fine and another one UBER does great, but in Houston both are horrible!

So location truly matters!


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

Ants take every offer they're sent, without thinking. And, they chase bonuses.

the word is: Mindlessness


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> So I really enjoyed being a non-ant, but my take-home really decreased drastically.
> 
> I’m blaming you guys. 😁 You broke me and now I look down at everything below $2/mile.
> 
> ...


Conditions on the ground are always changing, so you have to adapt or die. 

When it is very slow there’s no easy way to make decent money but those that last figure out a strategy that works. Driving only during the day severely limits what you can make, the far better money is at night. I’ve tried days a few times on a Saturday or Sunday and in my market determined it’s a complete waste of time. In between the hours of peak demand there is no way to make lemonade out of lemons! Also the breakfast and lunch order values are much lower, and traffic makes delivery times longer. It’s a bad combination.

If you need to make money you need to work nights, or at least to 8:00 pm so you capture the dinner rush. I know you won’t do that so you just have to figure what the minimum $$$ you are satisfied with and figure out how to achieve that. Otherwise, you will just join the 96% that don’t last a year.

Good Luck! 👍


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## SinCityAngel (Jul 7, 2019)

I wholeheartedly sympathize with your plight @Ms. Mercenary . Everyday, I'm trying to make sense of something that probably really does not need sense made of it. I'm looking at patterns. I'm looking at numbers. I'm looking at times. I'm looking at the intervals in between offers. I'm trying to figure out a way to get some sort of balance so that I can pretend to make around the same amount of money everyday. There are some offers that come in that make me feel like UE/DD is saying, "Hey! We really need you to go pick this one up because you are our best driver!" Then only to see them pitch an additional lower offer as if to say, "ohh uhh, can ya take this little randomly ridiculously large order for a smaller amount of money with you since you're going in that direction?" 

When I was with Postmates, you couldn't see what the offer was. It would just tell you go pick an order up. You had to determine how far you were from the source because the map had this really uncanny way of making distances appear smaller when they were ridiculously further and then making distances appear ridiculously far when they were right around the corner from you.

And then, foolishly, I reasoned that there had to be a mathematical way to determine what to take and what not to take. So, I got all the statistics for my car, my MPG rating, cost of wear and tear over the course of a year, everything that I knew I was going to have to replace within the year. How much I felt that my time and energy was worth. And tried to come up with this crazy equation that might make sense. Somehow, I reasoned that I could pretty much go from the furthest point to the furthest point in my city for $6.50 no matter what (assuming gas stayed at $3.25 a gallon, which was a while ago). So that means if I got an offer of $6.50 or more, I was going to be a delivery ***** - but no further than the cost of my maximum mileage at 1 gallon of gas (and I did break this rule one time because Uber's map and Google maps got me with that "as the crow flies" distance when the actual drive had me drive around curves to get to an area that I could have gotten to if I had just crossed over all the roads in a straight line by walking).

Yesterday, I didn't see many deliveries above $5.75 in an area that is usually rife with larger numbers. However, when I went to the hood, it seemed as though people were spending money and the numbers got larger. So, sometimes I feel like UE/DD purposely wants to put us in certain areas, but they can't specifically send messages saying, "Hey, I know you like making money where the rich people live, but we need you to go handle requests emanating from the hood today. You can resume your regularly scheduled tour like next week."

People here are going to say all kinds of things based on their general experiences, their methodologies, their religious preferences, their work experience... And everybody is correct. You just have to find your "correct" and develop a thick skin and do what you think is best.

You Go Girl 😃!


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## SinCityAngel (Jul 7, 2019)

Seamus said:


> Conditions on the ground are always changing, so you have to adapt or die.
> 
> When it is very slow there’s no easy way to make decent money but those that last figure out a strategy that works. Driving only during the day severely limits what you can make, the far better money is at night. I’ve tried days a few times on a Saturday or Sunday and in my market determined it’s a complete waste of time. In between the hours of peak demand there is no way to make lemonade out of lemons! Also the breakfast and lunch order values are much lower, and traffic makes delivery times longer. It’s a bad combination.
> 
> ...


I really need to make a plaque out of that last paragraph. Only those of us willing to go pedal to the metal "really be about dis life"


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I hear you, things change quickly! I do both eats and pax. I've been knocking out a solid 40 bucks an hour every week since the spring, driving late night weekends. Last week with Halloween even better, over 60 an hour. This week, ZERO. Bonuses suck, no surge, it's down to $25 an hour time and that is not good pay before expenses to handle drunks. I am fortunate that I have a day job so I have options because otherwise the wildly fluctuating income would stress me out. 

A buck a mile isn't terrible as long as you are busy. If you are only getting one call every 90 minutes it quickly becomes a loser because now you have a lot of dead miles. Do the best you can while you look for other options.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

It's hard to base it just on one metric like dollars per mile. I'd prefer the long runs if they can be done fast enough and pay high enough. I rarely see short runs over $10, and it has just never worked for me to try and do a bunch of quick orders hoping they add up.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Today wasn’t bad. I did DD all morning - UE was dead - and UE in the afternoon. I’m not terribly ant-y, still do about $1.5 a mile and mostly short distances. Waiting on what I hope to be a unicorn to drop, but not holding my breath. Wealthy people are odd and unpredictable. But he sure ordered from a restaurant far away with lots of decent ones much closer - and those orders sometimes are rewarding.

Yes, @Seamus; it pains me that i can’t drive in the dark, especially now, after DST kicked in, sunset is at 5:45. That’s way too early. And it’s not even winter yet! But at the end of the day, won’t be too rewarding if I kill myself or - even worse - hurt someone. It’s not easy for me to admit my limitations, but I promised my Dad I would when I had to insist he no longer drive. I simply do not see well enough in the dark to be safe. But Spring will spring soon enough. Time flies when you’re old you’re having fun.

It pains me even more because I was always a very effective driver. Any weather, any conditions - didn’t matter. But now have to take myself off the road for this… shameful.

Breakfast was great today; but isn’t on weekdays. So it’s a stretch.

At the end of the day, I don’t get good pings often enough that I would be concerned I’d miss one if I took a decent one (still not taking any $2.50 crap; they can get itthemselves for free). So I’m just going down a notch. Not the garbage orders (or Walmart/Shoprite/Petco; no way!)


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Correction: sunset is at *4:45 pm *now. So I’m not just screwed. I’m super-duper screwed.

Thankfully there are a LOT of retirement communities in the area. They love an early dinner! So I get a few between 3 and 5.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

Evening is kind of overrated, there's too many drivers and the traffic gets bad. I could make it on a 9-5 if I weren't too lazy to work those hours, otherwise I'd have a real job, obviously.

Cracker barrel in the morning is good for at least $30 on a couple runs.

I hate Panera, but for lunch orders they get a lot of catering orders if it's near a downtown area or hospital. You can usually get another $20 -30 there.

Afternoon you can just kind of float around and get paid to run your personal errands.

I think $100 a day 9-5 is a reasonable day shift goal.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

$100 a day is not happening for me unless I take every ping. I might do that just to see how that pans out.

Panera - never again. But I might accept more Starbucks - the few I did accept went fairly well. Except the majority I get don’t pay well at all.

DD is pretty much $4 tips across the board, aside from $2-3 cheapos.

The unicorn turned out to be a stinky donkey. If you’re tipping $6, order closer to home.

But once in a while I take pause.$6 isn’t a bad tip, really. It was a small bag, he likely tipped 20%, if not more (was a Greek place). At some point I got spoiled. I have this one regular customer who orders from places 1.2-1.5 miles away, places like Wawa and Starbucks, and always tips around $10. Young kid, too. Small house. super easy, always. I have a few regulars like that.

So I’m begining to question my judgement. Am I just being unreasonable and because of that declining decent offers? Going 7 miles for $11 isn’t exactly bad. Not great, sure, but not bad. 

I was online 39 hours on UE this week, earned $135. 19 hours on DD for $120. Needless to say, most of the time I was just sitting there, playing games on my phone. Currently at 8% AR. So it’s my own fault. I should ant more. I’m sitting there all entitled like Queen of Everything, hitting that “decline”. Of course I’ll not make money.

I think I’ll try something else these coming weeks. I need to lower my expectations and accept lower pings. Particularly as I can’t do dinners - and that’s where the money is - I need to hustle more at breakfast and lunch.

Maybe in the summer I’ll go back to the $2/mile; but for now, I’m going to be a touch more humble.

Still not doing Petco though. Princesses aren’t built for carrying 33-pound bags of dog food. And we KNOW that’s what they’re ordering.

Apologies for the rambling. I just can’t seem to catch my groove. It’s frustrating.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

I mean Petco and wmt is fine to me if it pays, I can work. 

I pretty much turn down anything under 10. Many days that means making nothing. I'd rather make nothing than lose money. 

I could make it if I had to, but I don't own a Prius anymore so that limits the distance, somewhat.


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## SinCityAngel (Jul 7, 2019)

jaxbeachrides said:


> Many days that means making nothing. I'd rather make nothing than lose money.


In theory, making no money is the same as losing money. As soon as you turn the app on, you need to bring something in otherwise you're blowing away your precious time that you could be using to do something more productive. However, I understand the mindset. Why kill yourself over a few bucks. And since everything is literally random, you don't know if you're going to be picking up a single drink versus carrying somebody's entire football party fiesta up three flights of stairs.



Ms. Mercenary said:


> I have this one regular customer who orders from places 1.2-1.5 miles away, places like Wawa and Starbucks, and always tips around $10. Young kid, too. Small house. super easy, always. I have a few regulars like that.


Don't be too hard on yourself. I think that we all try to move along the same lines that @jaxbeachrides was talking about. You just have to do what feels comfortable to you and make it work. This game is ridiculously random and I am finding more often that it is random for both the business as well as for us. One time I had to take some food from a restaurant chain that had a restaurant 20 mi away from the customer. And it wasn't that the distance was annoying because I was compensated well for the ride, but I knew that the same restaurant chain had a restaurant that was 8 miles closer to the customer because I've been to both of these restaurants before in the past and I know the area. So, upon arrival, I asked the customer if they knew that they were ordering from 20 miles away and the customer replied that when they use the app, they don't see the addresses of the place that they're ordering from. Just to confirm what the customer was talking about, as a customer I too started noticing that certain restaurants that I wanted food from that were right next to me we're not being listed. Even when I performed a search, the restaurant address would not be listed or it would say it was closed when I knew very well that it was open. So, I think that just like the apps try to randomly pick who gets what order, I also think that the restaurants also get randomly chosen to prepare the order. 

There are two very suburban areas in my city where a lot of us drivers really don't like to go because the distances between residences and businesses is literally six or seven miles in between and whether we are delivering to that area or delivering from that area, we often have to deadhead back to a location that we think is actually rife with activity. Yesterday, I was put in that deadhead area and I noticed that I started getting a lot of double digit deliveries. I know that there are several of us drivers out there, but the possibility existed that at the time of my arrival in that area, I was just lucky enough to possibly be either the only one in that area or one of very few people in that area. So that's random. I got lucky, but that is not something that you can really depend on if you're trying to make a pattern of it. We all want to be in an area that we know that we can get better payment from on a regular basis and that is what I do (or try to do) on a regular basis. However, I do notice that I am shifting areas because the areas that I normally frequent are not paying me as well and the places that I actually try to avoid - the hood and the outskirts - seem to pay me better when I'm there now. Again, this is a process that you just have to observe for yourself. I used to try and just jump on the nearest freeway as quickly as I could when I'm in the area that I really don't like or don't have much confidence in. But now, I'm starting to take the city streets back and I'm starting to see patterns of larger numbers popping up which tells me that that particular area is starting to pay better.

But then again, who knows? Maybe something else is going on like an event (or lack thereof)... or maybe everybody just hit a small windfall from some government service... or a few people went to the casino and hit big off of a football game... I don't know. All I can say is, sometimes if you see the numbers are too small, it's best to move to a different area to see if the numbers get bigger. But my main point is, just do what you are doing. Keep moving around until you find something comfortable 😃


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

SinCityAngel said:


> In theory, making no money is the same as losing money.


By that logic, where do you draw the line? Risking your $5000+ car + fuel + expenses + YOUR TIME, for $2? For .07 cents a minute?

Its opportunity cost. I could turn down a $2 order and then get a real order. Or I could be trading stocks on Robinhood. Or I could be just whacking it in the tool shed which is certainly more fun.

There's always something of greater value than a low order.


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## SinCityAngel (Jul 7, 2019)

jaxbeachrides said:


> By that logic, where do you draw the line? Risking your $5000+ car + fuel + expenses + YOUR TIME, for $2? For .07 cents a minute?
> 
> Its opportunity cost. I could turn down a $2 order and then get a real order. Or I could be trading stocks on Robinhood. Or I could be just whacking it in the tool shed which is certainly more fun.
> 
> There's always something of greater value than a low order.


My argument is that if you DO NOT do anything else while you are waiting for that cool offer, time is still passing (and theoretically if you are doing anything other than actually accepting offers) and you're calculating either money over time (0 offers accepted / seconds, minutes, hours, etc = $0) or calculating money over distance (0 offers accepted / the fact that ya ain't going anywhere = 0). I don't expect that 2 or 3 hours will just pass without you getting at least 1 good order, but if you are on the app for like 4-6 hours and you only grabbed $15, does that still motivate you to stay on the app?

Even if you received and completed several $2 and $3 trips in 20 minute intervals (which was possible when there was less driver saturation) you'd be pulling in $6-$9 an hour (which isn't, uh... great but at least it's something). I'm saying nothing is really NOTHING in this particular work and I would think that you would rather have SOMETHING over NOTHING 🤔


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

My existence is not dictated by mobile apps. If I were to take a "real job", it would have to pay over $25 per hour just to cover bills. That's not eating, just paying taxes and bills. Who is offering $30 an hour? If I take a job I'm going to eat.

App gigs are only feasible under the conditions that they do not detract from my time to the extent that I am losing money. I can only withdraw from my accounts for so long until there is nothing. If I can get a few dollars here and there (after expenses, NOT BEFORE), then I may take an order for 10-15$.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

jaxbeachrides said:


> Evening is kind of overrated,





jaxbeachrides said:


> I think $100 a day 9-5 is a reasonable day shift goal.


I don’t get the logic. We’ve both been doing this a long time and I respect that but don’t get what you’re saying. Last Friday and Saturday night I made $148 and $136 in each night 5 to 9. In that 8 hours I made $284 vs your $100 8 hour goal and nights are overrated??? Weeknights 6 to 9 I average between $65 and $75 in those 3 hours. The math speaks for itself. Nights overrated? No understanding 🤷‍♂️


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

$100 is a "minimum" goal, not a "maximum" 

Sure you get good orders in the evening. You also have many more drivers that log on after their day jobs. So theres less competition for orders during the day.

I've seen busy nights, and last weekend was not even close to normal because it rained all weekend, so of course it was going to be busy.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

See, I can’t set goals like that. For me to reach $100/day, I need to take all offers. Which I won’t. I’m not going 9 miles for $5. Amore realistic goal is around $60.

It is true that I have other limitations: I avoid walk-ups and medical facilities. I’m also not a huge fan of offices as their parking usually sucks, but will take them if the pay’s good. But again -for some reason, it rarely is, while reading you guys’, your office orders usually pay well.

Maybe someone’s skimming orders in my area using third-party software; maybe I’m not high enough on the totem pole. I will try accepting more offers next time I go out (have a cold, and don’t want to risk it), which will hopefully be Thursday (Mon-Wed suck anyway) and do a couple weeks like that.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> See, I can’t set goals like that. For me to reach $100/day, I need to take all offers. Which I won’t. I’m not going 9 miles for $5. Amore realistic goal is around $60.
> 
> It is true that I have other limitations: I avoid walk-ups and medical facilities. I’m also not a huge fan of offices as their parking usually sucks, but will take them if the pay’s good. But again -for some reason, it rarely is, while reading you guys’, your office orders usually pay well.
> 
> Maybe someone’s skimming orders in my area using third-party software; maybe I’m not high enough on the totem pole. I will try accepting more offers next time I go out (have a cold, and don’t want to risk it), which will hopefully be Thursday (Mon-Wed suck anyway) and do a couple weeks like that.


Don't forget, @Seamus is from New Yawk. Where people never sleep.
In my area, it is a fight to the end between 5-8 pm, and at that time, they roll up the sidewalks and go to sleep.
I don't understand suburbia. Have they forgotten their College days?


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> So I really enjoyed being a non-ant, but my take-home really decreased drastically.
> 
> I’m blaming you guys. 😁 You broke me and now I look down at everything below $2/mile.
> 
> ...


Learn from drivers here, just remember your market is different, you are different. See my signature.

Know your true vehicle costs per mile driven. This is for every mile you drive regardless of what it is for. I have a formula for this I can help you with. Send me a message in the conversation section.

What is better, 25 total miles at $2.00 per mile or 75 total miles at $1.00 per mile? Only you can answer this question.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Rickos69 said:


> Don't forget, @Seamus is from New Yawk. Where people never sleep.
> In my area, it is a fight to the end between 5-8 pm, and at that time, they roll up the sidewalks and go to sleep.
> I don't understand suburbia. Have they forgotten their College days?


That’s my plan B. If all else fails, I’ll work the Freehold area - things are bound to be busier there. The problem is I’ll be losing 2 hours in driving there and back. With daylight limited as it is, it’s not that great of an option.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

FLKeys said:


> What is better, 25 total miles at $2.00 per mile or 75 total miles at $1.00 per mile? Only you can answer this question.


I think in my case the qyestion is more like 25 miles at $2 or 50 at $1.5. The sheer volume leaves me at a loss with UE - most of the time I get 1 or 2 pings per day (and I work long days). The volume of DD pings is several times the number. For every UE ping I get maybe 10-20 DD pings. UE pings are so rare for me, I can easily do DD without missing even one. On days when UE is rocking I have no issues continuously pausing my DD. 

But I do feel the number of drivers is up, too. Never before was I not able to schedule dashes. Happens frequently now.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

If you're already on uber, passengers pays more than anything. I know you don't want to, but there's real money in it.

The only thing I like about delivery is you can use any vehicle, and you don't have to clean it every day. Everything else about delivery sucks, except for the few big runs you get, which are few and far between.

Other than DD I can't see grubhub adding up to much of anything. I had the app on for 2 days and got one low offer.


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## SinCityAngel (Jul 7, 2019)

I observed that there's a lot of randomness that you have to balance out in order to make more money. When I was taking every order and limiting myself to no more than 6 to 8 hours of work, I would end the days with 100 to $125. On the days when I was feeling myself, I would try not to take orders less than $8 and I noticed that my daily intake was less and I had to add more hours to my work time. So it was like, take lesser numbers or add more hours. Then, the distance thing - I'm sitting here trying to take an order of $5 and the distance is like 10 miles and it's 10 mi into an area that is not as rife with orders. This means that I'm going 10 miles into a dead area and I'm going to have to drive 10 miles back to the area that was actually popping. So, you're balancing three things. You have to look at your distance, you have to look at the time that they're quoting and you have to look at how much they offering. You literally have to balance all three of these things if you really want to be profitable. If you have something else going on, that's actually great. Quiet as it is kept, I donate plasma twice a week just to add a little something to my budget and I gamble with my cash tips if I randomly make a delivery to a casino. I still make more money doing food delivery, but it's a balancing act every time I go out and I have to stay focused and I have to stay committed and I have to ignore Uber's GPS when I know there are avenues that I can take that will allow me to get to my destination faster. It works. You just got to figure out how to make it work.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

So I took 11 miles for $20. For a weekday, that’s not bad in our area. Ended up being $25.50, and I shut down my generators till I got back - don’t want to be in that area (the cops there are like in those movies about small-town bully police; not a political statement, I 💙The Blue!)

I think not bad for aweskday pre-lunch run?

What are your thoughts. It’s runs like these that always give me pause. I never know if it’s worth it or not.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> So I took 11 miles for $20. For a weekday, that’s not bad in our area. Ended up being $25.50, and I shut down my generators till I got back - don’t want to be in that area (the cops there are like in those movies about small-town bully police; not a political statement, I 💙The Blue!)
> 
> I think not bad for aweskday pre-lunch run?
> 
> What are your thoughts. It’s runs like these that always give me pause. I never know if it’s worth it or not.


So you have to decide what your goals are. Your's and mine and someone else's could be all different. Since it's supplemental income for me my goals are about maximizing my revenue per mile and a per hour average of at least $25.

A couple points for what it's worth.

Several factors have to be considered, not just one. Time, Distance, WHERE it's going regarding geography and others etc.etc..
$25.50 for 11 miles isn't bad but you shortchanged yourself by not staying in that area and taking offers. Dead miles are the hidden profit killer in gig work. You have to get out of your comfort zone to make more money. Leaving an area because of local police is an excuse (sorry). Expand your horizons and get comfortable in more than your nest! Not trying to be critical just telling you how to do this and make more money.
Because you didn't do #2, you're gross revenue per mile went from $2.32 (nice) to $1.16 (not acceptable) per mile. Without the extra money the original offer would have been a gross of $0.90 per mile (terrible).
Assuming you did it in an hour or less there and back you met the $$/hour metric , but fell way short of the $$/mile metric
Keep in mind I'm focused on making money, I freely admit it. I would have never accepted the offer at $20 for 11 miles if it's going to somewhere I don't want to be because of the dead miles and wasted time. Dead miles + wasted time = missed opportunity. If however, it's going to a good hot spot or if it puts me closer to home then I would take it.

I never consider the opportunity for extra money on a trip that far. 11 miles is way too much to gamble on so only if the presented offer makes sense would I do it.

We're all different so there is no right or wrong answer, it's personal to you.


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Seamus said:


> So you have to decide what your goals are. Your's and mine and someone else's could be all different. Since it's supplemental income for me my goals are about maximizing my revenue per mile and a per hour average of at least $25.
> 
> A couple points for what it's worth.
> 
> ...


Per your points.
Question : $20 for 10 miles. The only things that are at the drop off are mansions. No restaurants.
Take it? Count on an average speed limit getting there between 30-45. Rural roads,, with the occasional smokey!


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Rickos69 said:


> Per your points.
> Question : $20 for 10 miles. The only things that are at the drop off are mansions. No restaurants.
> Take it? Count on an average speed limit getting there between 30-45. Rural roads,, with the occasional smokey!


If I got that offer and knew there would be no restaurants in that area so I would have to dead mile back hard no! For me to go 10 miles into a dead area I would need $25 to $30 to consider that offer. Even at that if it were a very busy Friday or Sat night 20 miles (there and back) might be a no-go.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Seamus said:


> So you have to decide what your goals are. Your's and mine and someone else's could be all different. Since it's supplemental income for me my goals are about maximizing my revenue per mile and a per hour average of at least $25.
> 
> A couple points for what it's worth.
> 
> ...


All valid points and as always - you know this - your advice is much appreciated.

This was me actually going out of my comfort zone. As I wrote at the beginning, I was turning down way too manh offers. The problem in my case was no better offers ever came. I would be sitting there declining $3 for 7 miles or $5 for 8. Better yet, crap like this:








While I agree on all your points, following them in my particular area will get me 1 or 2 deliveries per day. I’ve had days when I literally took ZERO deliveries in 5 or 6 hours.
I wasn’t particularly happy with this one - hence the question - particularly as the first drop-off was a major pain (one of those ridiculous apartment complexes with parking around the perimeter and all the doors open to a huge grass field with walks. Took forever. I still had it all done in about 40 minutes and only deadheaded maybe 6 miles (ended up the whole way because no pings).

There are no restaurats there - certainly none that would take me in the direction I need - not even fast food. Probably why they BOTH ordered from a restaurant that far away - says something.
I had a hunch it would be more, but I wasn’t going on that. My thinking was $20 is better than the 0 you’ll get otherwise ($5-6 if I’m super lucky).

Again, I’m not arguing with you - you are one of the people I admire and whose advice I always find very valuable. I’m just outlining my thinking process. I accepted at the last second - I almost hit “decline” but then remembered I was going to lower my standards a tad.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> So I took 11 miles for $20. For a weekday, that’s not bad in our area. Ended up being $25.50, and I shut down my generators till I got back - don’t want to be in that area (the cops there are like in those movies about small-town bully police; not a political statement, I 💙The Blue!)
> 
> I think not bad for aweskday pre-lunch run?
> 
> What are your thoughts. It’s runs like these that always give me pause. I never know if it’s worth it or not.


In a slow market I would take the 11 miles for $20.00. Even with 11 dead miles back it is still a profitable trip. Sure not the greatest per mile, however still profitable. Approximately 91¢ per mile with the 11 dead miles back, and what maybe 22-23¢ per mile in expense in your car? Still made around what 69-70¢ a mile in profit?


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

I really like the $20 hits as long as it's not 30 miles.

There's plenty of $5 runs that could easily tie up an hour of your time.

I'd do 5 or 10 $20 runs a day and doesn't matter if its 10 miles or 20 miles.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

jaxbeachrides said:


> I really like the $20 hits as long as it's not 30 miles.
> 
> There's plenty of $5 runs that could easily tie up an hour of your time.
> 
> I'd do 5 or 10 $20 runs a day and doesn't matter if its 10 miles or 20 miles.


My reasoning is that I need four $5 runs 2 miles or less to match. Not happening. At least 2 of those $5 will be 7-8 miles. Very unlikely to get short runs to match, and in the pre-lunch deadness of 11 am - no way.

I may feel otherwise in time, and maybe in the summer. Or even on week-ends.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

FLKeys said:


> In a slow market I would take the 11 miles for $20.00. Even with 11 dead miles back it is still a profitable trip. Sure not the greatest per mile, however still profitable. Approximately 91¢ per mile with the 11 dead miles back, and what maybe 22-23¢ per mile in expense in your car? Still made around what 69-70¢ a mile in profit?


I use your formula now. I aim for $1/mile _after_ expenses. Tbh I wasn’t planning to deadhead all the way back - I logged back in as soon as I was out of range and where restaurants were in range, just didn’t get any pings. So it was either park there and risk pings that will most likely take me even further North or head to my spot where 1/2 the pings take me where I need to go.

So it was a miscalculation in some part. On the other hand, I know there was no way I’d make that in those 40 minutes (I was literally at the restaurant’s lot when the order came through).

But I’m torn. I don’t like orders like that, but it seems in my case I should consider taking more of them. Or sit in the lot for hours yawning and declining.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

jaxbeachrides said:


> I really like the $20 hits as long as it's not 30 miles.
> 
> There's plenty of $5 runs that could easily tie up an hour of your time.
> 
> I'd do 5 or 10 $20 runs a day and doesn't matter if its 10 miles or 20 miles.


On Friday I’m flying down to my Florida house for 10 days maybe I’ll just have to logon and check out the Florida market. I imagine where I am it’s pretty slow.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

Seamus said:


> On Friday I’m flying down to my Florida house for 10 days maybe I’ll just have to logon and check out the Florida market. I imagine where I am it’s pretty slow.


Generally speaking, the only bad markets in florida now are central east coast like between Daytona and Cocoa. They still have nice areas but as a whole, places I avoid.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> All valid points and as always - you know this - your advice is much appreciated.
> 
> This was me actually going out of my comfort zone. As I wrote at the beginning, I was turning down way too manh offers. The problem in my case was no better offers ever came. I would be sitting there declining $3 for 7 miles or $5 for 8. Better yet, crap like this:
> View attachment 626427
> ...


I get that the shore is a summer market. However, I’m surprised Toms River is that slow. I would have thought due to the year round semi sizable population it would be busier.

Again please trust me I’m not criticizing. I will just tell you to be successful in gig work you need the ultimate in flexibility. I just don’t see any other way to make substantial money but working peak demand and going where the geographical demand is. You impress me as a sharp gal. You’ll figure out how to make it work for you or you’ll be gone in a few months (If you need the money).


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> In a slow market I would take the 11 miles for $20.00. Even with 11 dead miles back it is still a profitable trip. Sure not the greatest per mile, however still profitable. Approximately 91¢ per mile with the 11 dead miles back, and what maybe 22-23¢ per mile in expense in your car? Still made around what 69-70¢ a mile in profit?


I’ve read your posts long enough to know you’re a sharp guy. You found a way to make it worthwhile in a very slow market. Imagine what a sharp guy like you could make in a busy market!  Even in a good market like mine, many make peanuts because they can’t figure out how to do it! I don’t know what the answer is in a very slow market, can’t get blood out of a stone. I guess all you can do is maximize what you can get.


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## SinCityAngel (Jul 7, 2019)

While I also STAUNCHLY agree with @Seamus , I just want to also point out not to forget taking note of how quickly offers come in. If you are skipping offers, take note of how quickly they are coming in and look at the distances. If there are $5 offers for short distances, you should be knocking those out. At least for Uber eats, we are shown an estimated time of how long it should take to make a delivery - yes, I am factoring in which restaurant as well because some restaurants always take forever to make the food - but if you're making 5 to $6 every 15 minutes that still comes out to be 20 to $24 an hour. I know you said you were worried about the police, even though they supposedly increase police activity in my city as more officers got hired, I'm observing the same patterns to still exist that there are really no police in those residential neighborhoods that are middle class or upper class which allows me to freely smash about to get to my destination quicker. Although, I set my standard to not really take offers of less than $7, I still have to factor in the speed of which offers appear. I now quickly calculate my per hour average based on the estimated time of delivery. Whenever I see an estimate of 15 minutes I multiply the offer by four (there are four 15 minutes segments in an hour). Whenever I see an estimate of 20 minutes I multiply the offer by 3 (there are three 20 minutes segments in an hour). So if I see a $5 offer with an estimate of 15 minutes, in theory that is a $20 an hour order. If I see a $5 offer with a estimate of 20 minutes, that is a $15 an hour order. I try to stay upwards of 15. By the end of my "shift", my total average usually ends up to be something like somewhere between $12.50 cents an hour to $16.66 an hour - that's for the whole day. So in theory, you really don't want too much time to lapse between offers. You get this really cool $20 offer that took you 20 minutes to deliver, so you're hourly average is looking like $60 an hour ($20 times 3 - 20 minute segments) and as time passes, like @Seamus says, your average goes down. If you don't take a ride within the next couple of hours you're now looking at $20 divided by 3 hours which makes your average something like $6 and some change. So you have to keep taking offers even if they suck a little bit just to keep your average up.

I got lucky last week. I literally did two $5 offers and a $6 offer in about 45 minutes. I didn't get an offer for 10 minutes and then the next offer was like $4 which I skipped - so then I had to wait about 5 more minutes but then I got blessed with a $35 multiple Walmart order. The estimate for the Walmart order was supposed to be an hour and 20 minutes but I knocked it out in an hour. So in 2 hours and 10 minutes I made $51 which averages out to be a little less than $25 an hour (and I know I would never have made that without that miraculous Big boost offer) so then the challenge for me is to make sure that I get larger offers that come in quickly. You should really never wait more than 20 minutes. Waiting and doing nothing is also a killer in this game (so make sure if you are waiting to at least turn your engine off)


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Well, my next bright idea was to go ahead and take note of every single ping for about a week and see what I’m declining and what I’m taking. On a number of occasions I’ve found myself sitting there for an hour regretting nottaking that ping that I declined, as the others were much worse.

I have a tendency to analyze too much, but ithings make sense to me after I do.

I’ve lived to trust my intuition completely, and those few times I went against it I did regret taking pings; that said, I need to prove to myself it’s not a cop-out.

All of this is moot at this point as on Monday morning for some reason my vision decided to all but quit on me - can’t even see the screen. I somehow toughed it out, but going to let my eyes resta couple of days. Sometimes it feels like the Universe is sending me signals I should look elsewhere. The problem is I REALLY like doing this. I’d be crushed if I had to quit.


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## SinCityAngel (Jul 7, 2019)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> The problem is I REALLY like doing this. I’d be crushed if I had to quit.



Agreed! I'm a social person. I like being around people. The one thing that covid kind of changed about this kind of work is the ability for people to request that food get left by the door when I kind of prefer to give food to people face to face. I love learning more and more about places in this city that I didn't know about previously. I love discovering new developments and new construction. I love stopping at businesses that have strange names and asking them what is it that they do. I love revisiting restaurants and restaurant owners that I like that are all optimistic and bubbly about what they do. 

Had to kill my Facebook account because I got one of those narcissistic ex-girlfriends that feels like she has to be all in my business and comments on everything with negativity about our relationship so up.net becomes my new Facebook


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

SinCityAngel said:


> While I also STAUNCHLY agree with @Seamus , I just want to also point out not to forget taking note of how quickly offers come in. If you are skipping offers, take note of how quickly they are coming in and look at the distances. If there are $5 offers for short distances, you should be knocking those out. At least for Uber eats, we are shown an estimated time of how long it should take to make a delivery - yes, I am factoring in which restaurant as well because some restaurants always take forever to make the food - but if you're making 5 to $6 every 15 minutes that still comes out to be 20 to $24 an hour. I know you said you were worried about the police, even though they supposedly increase police activity in my city as more officers got hired, I'm observing the same patterns to still exist that there are really no police in those residential neighborhoods that are middle class or upper class which allows me to freely smash about to get to my destination quicker. Although, I set my standard to not really take offers of less than $7, I still have to factor in the speed of which offers appear. I now quickly calculate my per hour average based on the estimated time of delivery. Whenever I see an estimate of 15 minutes I multiply the offer by four (there are four 15 minutes segments in an hour). Whenever I see an estimate of 20 minutes I multiply the offer by 3 (there are three 20 minutes segments in an hour). So if I see a $5 offer with an estimate of 15 minutes, in theory that is a $20 an hour order. If I see a $5 offer with a estimate of 20 minutes, that is a $15 an hour order. I try to stay upwards of 15. By the end of my "shift", my total average usually ends up to be something like somewhere between $12.50 cents an hour to $16.66 an hour - that's for the whole day. So in theory, you really don't want too much time to lapse between offers. You get this really cool $20 offer that took you 20 minutes to deliver, so you're hourly average is looking like $60 an hour ($20 times 3 - 20 minute segments) and as time passes, like @Seamus says, your average goes down. If you don't take a ride within the next couple of hours you're now looking at $20 divided by 3 hours which makes your average something like $6 and some change. So you have to keep taking offers even if they suck a little bit just to keep your average up.
> 
> I got lucky last week. I literally did two $5 offers and a $6 offer in about 45 minutes. I didn't get an offer for 10 minutes and then the next offer was like $4 which I skipped - so then I had to wait about 5 more minutes but then I got blessed with a $35 multiple Walmart order. The estimate for the Walmart order was supposed to be an hour and 20 minutes but I knocked it out in an hour. So in 2 hours and 10 minutes I made $51 which averages out to be a little less than $25 an hour (and I know I would never have made that without that miraculous Big boost offer) so then the challenge for me is to make sure that I get larger offers that come in quickly. You should really never wait more than 20 minutes. Waiting and doing nothing is also a killer in this game (so make sure if you are waiting to at least turn your engine off)


The estimated time is not based on how long it will actually take. It's how long they told the customer it should take. 

For a $5 order, you can count on 30-45 minutes start to finish once you factor in the order not being ready half the time. I don't care what kind of mathematical equation you guys are using to justify $5 orders. I'm not doing it.


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

This thread finally helped me decide on an avatar. 😂


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## SinCityAngel (Jul 7, 2019)

jaxbeachrides said:


> The estimated time is not based on how long it will actually take. It's how long they told the customer it should take.
> 
> For a $5 order, you can count on 30-45 minutes start to finish once you factor in the order not being ready half the time. I don't care what kind of mathematical equation you guys are using to justify $5 orders. I'm not doing it.


It's okay, my brother-in-arms. Jus git dat BREAD!! 😃


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## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Ms. Mercenary said:


> This thread finally helped me decide on an avatar. 😂


And I just saw your avatar, and I think you could choose a nicer one of the little loveable ant. The one you chose looks like it came from the movie Alien.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)




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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)




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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Rickos69 said:


> And I just saw your avatar, and I think you could choose a nicer one of the little loveable ant. The one you chose looks like it came from the movie Alien.


Well it’s kinda the point. The exact search term was “evil ant”. 😂


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## Ms. Mercenary (Jul 24, 2020)

Aw, @FLKeys and @Seamus, you’re sweet! True Chivalry. Love to see it - sadly, doesn’t happen often enough.


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