# Seattle becomes 1st city in nation to allow Uber drivers to unionize!



## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

http://www.geekwire.com/2015/live-blog-seattle-votes-labor-law-unionize-uber-lyft-drivers/

this news is breaking! it was an 8-0 vote... the Uber Appeals Machine is scrambling....


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

<<The law, which still needs a signature from Mayor Ed Murray, gives drivers the ability to negotiate pay rates and employment conditions.>>

will the Seattle Uber drivers now demand that the Ratings System be abolished?


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## UberComic (Apr 17, 2014)

This creates national, and possibly worldwide, awareness of driver's complaints of Uber's mistreatment. Let's hope they get right to bargaining for higher fares.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

latest is that Uber is suing to try to block this from ever happening . . apparently this begins in a year in Seattle . . but Uber is suing, hoping to totally block this . . the battlefield about to see a lot of action


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## Cdaley (Nov 30, 2015)

I'm a driver in colorado if it does go they it will get locked up in court for a long time!! I think it's a stupid idea to unionize your going to pay a company to talk for you !! I won't join if it makes it to colorado!! Watch there will be some deactivations going on in Seattle !! ill be a union strike breaker !?


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## Cdaley (Nov 30, 2015)

john djjjoe said:


> You guys don't understand how unions work do you? Look at GM/Ford/etc...


I use to be in a union!! And uber is not GM or Ford I think Seattle drivers are gonna find that uber owners are smarter than they think!


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## ubershiza (Jan 19, 2015)

NYC TLC already went on record saying they wouldn't allow it to happen. Like to see them eat their words.


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## haji (Jul 17, 2014)

Great victory for drivers.


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## Lag Monkey (Feb 6, 2015)

Amazing work to ABDA (App Based Driver Association) wonderful victory! Let's pray this holds in courts and other city's start to allow us to unionize! If uber woulda just raised rates and treated us like people instead of disposable meat sacks they wouldn't have drivers pushing for changes


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## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

Uber brought this upon themselves, simple as that.


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## john djjjoe (Feb 20, 2015)

Cdaley said:


> I use to be in a union!! And uber is not GM or Ford I think Seattle drivers are gonna find that uber owners are smarter than they think!


Aren't the Seattle drivers the Uber owners? Or do you mean that the drivers in Seattle who work for Uber will find out that the owners of Uber the company are smart? This makes no sense.



ubershiza said:


> NYC TLC already went on record saying they wouldn't allow it to happen. Like to see them eat their words.


NYC≠Seattle



haji said:


> Great victory for drivers.


Yeah great way to be terminated as a partner



AintWorthIt said:


> Uber brought this upon themselves, simple as that.


By forcing you to drive for them?


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

$15 minium wage in Seattle. Who makes that much driving UberX.


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## afrojoe824 (Oct 21, 2015)

idk D Town Though this sounds like a positive thing, Idk what kind of adverse effect this might have.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

afrojoe824 said:


> idk D Town Though this sounds like a positive thing, Idk what kind of adverse effect this might have.


True of ANY decision made in life however if my choices are lay back and take it or at least ATTEMPT to have a voice I'll choose having a voice every time.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Name one Union job in the US where people earn less than Minimum Wage after expenses. Now tell me about UberX in Sacramento?

You don't want people to get at least the
legally mandated minimum wage. What kind of sicko are you?


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Name one Union job in the US where people earn less than Minimum Wage after expenses. Now tell me about UberX in Sacramento?
> 
> You don't want people to get at least the
> legally mandated minimum wage. What kind of sicko are you?


Don't even bother. You're going to start him regurgitating every bit of anti union propaganda that's ever been crammed into his head...no one needs to be put through that.


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## DrivenToDistraction (Sep 3, 2015)

This is huge news. In the end I am very doubtful that the drivers will vote to unionize, but this is a huge loss for Uber.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

I live in Seattle and drive for Uber. We have a ban on plastic grocery bags. They voted for the $15 min wage (not implemented yet). We have a huge population of homeless camping in tents in plain site of the freeway.

And it's a pretty good city to drive in. Very safe, lot's of business, a good mix of tourist, business and bar crowd.

I'm not a big fan of unions. I don't want to be in this one. I'm guessing it will be tied up in courts for many years to come.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

the spin that Uber keeps putting on "we're just a connecting technology linking riders with entrepreneurial drivers"

according to this statement, Uber DRIVERS not Uber, should have most of the say in how things work

but Uber has been a bully, telling drivers Our Way or the Highway

The drivers take 50% - 80% of all sales, yet they have 0% voice

0% voice while Uber makes 100% of the rules, terminates drivers, sets the rate, forces drivers to accept their calls, subjects drivers to a lousy ratings system, punishes drivers for not servicing their calls

yet Uber says "we aren't an employer, we're this brand new thing, this technology, we're an independent connecting mechanism"

what a load, and from perhaps the most unethical immoral company in human history

congrats to you, Seattle drivers! congrats for standing up to Uber's awful ways

i will be pulling for you all the way through this battle that you're about to engage in


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

GREAT NEWS! Uber will fight it but I think it has legs:

"I think one really great thing about the proposed Seattle ordinance is it takes away some of the incentive to misclassify drivers [as independent]," Garden said. "It seems like a sensible way to respond to [a] growing problem."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/uber-seattle-union_566f3e49e4b011b83a6c3b24?utm_hp_ref=politics


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## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

My argument is that Americans for at least people in America are allowed to assemble peacefully be it for political or monetary purposes


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

The law of unintended consequences...


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## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

Moving forward as a pretend uber executive or whatever Council, I would look into accepting the demand for expenses but uber gets the mileage the federal tax deduction.

As the law states you can either use expenses or mileage. You can use the mileage only in part of the depreciation of your vehicle which you would then add into your expense right off.

The expenses paid to you by uber which include gas covers your mileage and will be listed on the w2 form as expenses.

I predict the mileage is worth 50 to 200% more then expenses paid to employees based on my own personal spreadsheet. The trouble comes in is when they someone wants to crash the car


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

In reading various articles, it's against Federal law for cities to allow ICs to unionize. Uber will file for an injunction in Federal court.

In order to unionize, the city, or Uber, must give up a list of Uber partner names to various non-profit labor organizations, so that a full tally of the number of drivers can be taken so that when a vote comes it can be verified that the majority of drivers agree to unionization.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> In reading various articles, it's against Federal law for cities to allow ICs to unionize.


I'm not sure that's true. https://www.freelancersunion.org/about/


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

D Town said:


> I'm not sure that's true. https://www.freelancersunion.org/about/


They may call themselves a union, but they aren't certified anywhere to engage in collective bargaining on behalf of workers. They are more of an association for advocacy. AFAIK, they have no local chapters who are certified as a union of ICs in any city.

Honestly, they seem more about selling members insurance plans than anything else.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> They may call themselves a union, but they aren't certified anywhere to engage in collective bargaining on behalf of workers. They are more of an association for advocacy. AFAIK, they have no local chapters who are certified as a union of ICs in any city.
> 
> Honestly, they seem more about selling members insurance plans than anything else.


I'll take your word since I know so little about it and don't have time at the moment to read. If that's the case the this is just another step in getting Uber drivers classified as employees which would force Uber to either become a cab company - not happening- or to give the drivers WAY more control - more likely than the cab company thing but still a fight.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

_"The Freelancers Union, which is based in Brooklyn, doesn't bargain with employers, but it does address what is by far these workers' No. 1 concern, by providing them with affordable health insurance. Its health insurance company covers 23,000 workers in New York State and has $105 million in annual revenue."_

_"Some union old-timers argue that the Freelancers Union is more like an association than a union and will not be able to achieve truly significant gains for workers. Its members don't pay union dues, which means that joining requires no sacrifice, and the Freelancers Union doesn't negotiate contracts with employers or represent freelancers when they have grievances. (Under the National Labor Relations Act, freelancers are considered independent contractors, not employees, and employers thus have no obligation to bargain with them, even when they form a union.)"_

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/b...les-concerns-of-independent-workers.html?_r=0


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

the argument has been made "hybrid" class of employees . . something that does not currently exist within labor classifications . . so this whole idea of unionizing these drivers seems to fall into this "hybrid" nothing exists for it at the moment and Seattle is trying to create something for it


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Kool Aid drinker, just a realist who prefers to be an IC and work where, when, and how much I want to.

I don't want to be an employee and have a 22 year old boss who lives with his or her parents and has no concept of how the real world works.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Kool Aid drinker, just a realist who prefers to be an IC and work where, when, and how much I want to.


wouldn't it also be nice if you could enter your price in the app (each ride could be like an auction bidding process)

wouldn't it be nice to negotiate a rate with your pax over the phone

wouldn't it be nice to know exact pick-ups and destinations before accepting the trip

wouldn't it be nice to get pax in your car and they have zero ability to rate you

wouldn't it be nice to cancel 10, 20, 30 calls with no consequences

wouldn't it be nice to disallow pax into your car "just because" and suffer zero punishment

this is what being an independent contractor is

this is how taxi drivers may choose to operate, and taxi drivers are true independent contractors, Uber drivers are miles away from being IC's


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Kool Aid drinker, just a realist who prefers to be an IC and work where, when, and how much I want to.
> 
> I don't want to be an employee and have a 22 year old boss who lives with his or her parents and has no concept of how the real world works.


That's the false choice they want you to think is your only option. What most drivers REALLY want is to actually be treated as an IC. This is a way to force Uber's hand.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> the argument has been made "hybrid" class of employees . . something that does not currently exist within labor classifications . . so this whole idea of unionizing these drivers seems to fall into this "hybrid" nothing exists for it at the moment and Seattle is trying to create something for it


The Act establishing the National Labor Relations Board specifically excludes it from having providence over independent contractors.

The IRS test is pretty clear on how to define ICs.

What the courts will have to rule on is whether or not Uber's control over partners is far reaching enough to be considered employer control.

My personal opinion is that the Uber policy against tipping is an over reach beyond IC status into employer control. In fact, I think a lot of drivers would be happy if Uber simply set up an easy way to receive tips.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> The Act establishing the National Labor Relations Board specifically excludes it from having providence over independent contractors.
> 
> The IRS test is pretty clear on how to define ICs.
> 
> ...


I want more rate control as well.


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> wouldn't it also be nice if you could enter your price in the app (each ride could be like an auction bidding process)
> 
> wouldn't it be nice to negotiate a rate with your pax over the phone
> 
> ...


But who would use such a service having to jump through so many hoops and not knowing if they have to call thirty times to get a ride.

Taxi drivers have no leeway in setting rates, and most cities prohibit them from turning down dispatches.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> The Act establishing the National Labor Relations Board specifically excludes it from having providence over independent contractors.
> 
> The IRS test is pretty clear on how to define ICs.
> 
> ...


the taxi system was not perfect, so Uber came in with the attitude "We'll fix this!" but their focus was on PLEASING THE RIDING PASSENGER without even thinking about the human DRIVER .. in order to accomplish PLEASE THE RIDING PASSENGER you must CONTROL THE DRIVER

the sole argument Uber has with this misclassification lawsuit is "the drivers work whenever they want!" this is a bogus position because once that all-flexible driver logs in NOW HE IS 100% BEING CONTROLLED BY UBER


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> But who would use such a service having to jump through so many hoops and not knowing if they have to call thirty times to get a ride.
> 
> Taxi drivers have no leeway in setting rates, and most cities prohibit them from turning down dispatches.


taxi drivers accept cash as payment and work with customers on FLAT RATES constantly


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Cabbies negotiating rates outside of the city mandates is illegal.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> Cabbies negotiating rates outside of the city mandates is illegal.


cab drivers are allowed to work out flat rates as long as it does not exceed the metered rate


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> cab drivers are allowed to work out flat rates as long as it does not exceed the metered rate


In Houston they are required to use the meter and charge the metered rate, except for some city designated flat rate trips. Cabbies aren't permitted to charge less than the city mandates rates.

Not saying they don't in reality.


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> The Act establishing the National Labor Relations Board specifically excludes it from having providence over independent contractors.
> 
> The IRS test is pretty clear on how to define ICs.
> 
> ...


Tips from who, those pax that the only reason they use you in the first place is because you are dirt cheap, yes Uberx pax tipping, lol, and what percentage would that be, maybe 5-10% if that, that's just desperate and delusional thinking. 
I am sure those 1-2$ tips will offset the dirt cheap rates, seriously.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> In Houston they are required to use the meter and charge the metered rate, except for some city designated flat rate trips. Cabbies aren't permitted to charge less than the city mandates rates.
> 
> Not saying they don't in reality.


doesn't sound legit . . a cab driver could charge less than what that meter says . . maybe Houston requires METER ON AT ALL TIMES but that wouldn't mean cab driver can't discount the meter


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> doesn't sound legit . . a cab driver could charge less than what that meter says . . maybe Houston requires METER ON AT ALL TIMES but that wouldn't mean cab driver can't discount the meter


It's set up that way so cab companies don't undercut the competition and so that all fares are accounted for properly so they can be subject to taxation.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

ORT said:


> Tips from who, those pax that the only reason they use you in the first place is because you are dir cheap, yes Uberx pax tipping, lol, and what percentage would that be, maybe 5-10% if that, I am sure that will offset the dirt cheap rates, seriously.


a very big part of the Uber fantasy is TIP INCLUDED which means I DON'T HAVE TO TIP it's so ingrained in the Uber fantasy that it would be quite shocking if suddenly a Lyft-like tipping option was added into the Uber app


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> It's set up that way so cab companies don't undercut the competition and so that all fares are accounted for properly so they can be subject to taxation.


well then Houston must be chopping the meter (% to driver % to cab company) that is still Vegas system but i think mostly that system is no longer being used


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> a very big part of the Uber fantasy for the riders is TIP INCLUDED which to them means I DON'T HAVE TO TIP it's so ingrained in the Uber fantasy that it would be quite shocking if suddenly a Lyft-like tipping option was added into the Uber app


Even in the Lyft app, you hardly see any tips, it's like encountering flying unicorns, have you ever seen a flying unicorn, only in Uber/Lyft fantasy land.


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## Fastlane (Dec 15, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> View attachment 20355


what a waste of time, UBER has the drivers to replace the complainers


riChElwAy said:


> <<The law, which still needs a signature from Mayor Ed Murray, gives drivers the ability to negotiate pay rates and employment conditions.>>


no, it gives the drivers the right to join a union, and they can negotiate. it also can pass without the mayor's signature, but it's silly, UBER drivers are not employees, and UBER would just use other drivers, they are overloaded in Seattle anyway if the complainers are really only making $3 an hour. drivers need to realize there is a finite number of riders.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Worse than the tobacco industry who actively markets nicotine to children, gets them addicted knowing that half of them will die from using tobacco as directed?



riChElwAy said:


> what a load, and from perhaps the most unethical immoral company in human history


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> wouldn't it also be nice if you could enter your price in the app (each ride could be like an auction bidding process)
> 
> wouldn't it be nice to negotiate a rate with your pax over the phone
> 
> ...


i don't really want or need any of those things, it would slow down the whole transaction and cost me $. The union fees would also cost me money and I highly doubt the union reps have the same political views as I do, which would mean my money would be taken involuntarily from me to promote ideas that I do not agree with.

no thanks

^^ Seattle Uber driver


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

Robertk said:


> i don't really want or need any of those things, it would slow down the whole transaction and cost me $. The union fees would also cost me money and I highly doubt the union reps have the same political views as I do, which would mean my money would be taken involuntarily from me to promote ideas that I do not agree with.
> 
> no thanks
> 
> ^^ Seattle Uber driver


The union works for you, not against you.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

AintWorthIt said:


> Uber brought this upon themselves, simple as that.


They sure did as well as all of the drivers' lawsuits. If they hadn't started cutting rates, controlling drivers more and more, and saturating the market with too many Uber cars on the streets, they wouldn't find themselves in this situation.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

riChElwAy said:


> latest is that Uber is suing to try to block this from ever happening . . apparently this begins in a year in Seattle . . but Uber is suing, hoping to totally block this . . the battlefield about to see a lot of action


If they are successful in blocking it, the downside for them is this would be another persuasive factor for classifying the drivers as employees who have a statutory right to unionize. It's a lose, lose for them at this point.

I believe it is just a matter of time before the drivers get more rights and higher pay (one way or another). Uber's business model will have to change and of course, it's ridiculous pie in the sky valuation will be adjusted significantly downward accordingly.

With all of Uber's legal uncertainties, it will be very difficult for them to go public. If they were smart, they would try to resolve the issue with the drivers.

Of course, they could wait for driverless cars to come out before going public. Good luck w/ that. The way it is going, they will kill the Uber brand before that becomes a reality and there will be very few Uber customers left. If driverless cars do become a reality, there will be a lot of competition and I doubt Uber will be in the forefront. They would also have to buy (or lease) these cars, which is a very different business model than they currently use (obviously given that they don't own any cars). That's why I don't really understand why they won't just work w/ the drivers and instead try to threaten that driverless cars are going to take the drivers' work away if drivers don't behave. Makes no sense to me.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

D Town said:


> The brainwashing is complete.


Yup. A large portion of our population are so brainwashed that they constantly vote against their own interest. They're too stupid to see it.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

A moron is a worker who doesn't fight for workers' rights is in my opinion. Just rolling over and letting a company abuse you and evade the law is idiotic and weak unless of course you're delusional enough to think if you kiss the company's buttock, they will take care of you. They absolutely will not. You are dispensable/replaceable. Everyone is. 

Why should we allow Uber to circumvent labor and tax law? When the drivers were making good money at the beginning and received more from Uber than the minimums provided under the law there was no reason to fight them and seek the protections of the law. Now there is unfortunately.

The point of a union is to fight for higher wages and better working conditions, the benefits of which should far exceed the dues.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Kool Aid drinker, just a realist who prefers to be an IC and work where, when, and how much I want to.
> 
> I don't want to be an employee and have a 22 year old boss who lives with his or her parents and has no concept of how the real world works.


What about the Screen Actors Guild (SAG), Directors Guild of America, etc.? These unions are made up primarily of freelance workers.


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

Without a union workers are always taken advantage of and screwed, I should know from my previous employement. The working landscape is changing, and it's called the 1099 economy "where companies are trying to cut back on costs, and labor is the number one cost in any business", many other corporations are going to follow Uber's blueprint, the old labor laws are starting to look antiquated and corporations like Uber are taking advantage of these antiquated laws, sooner or later the labor laws will change.


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## Gemgirlla (Oct 16, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> The Act establishing the National Labor Relations Board specifically excludes it from having providence over independent contractors.
> 
> The IRS test is pretty clear on how to define ICs.
> 
> ...


The NLRB published new guidelines for classify workers as employees v. IC in July 2015. Their position is that most workers will be classified as employees. It seems as if the guidelines were written for the gig economy and particularly Uber drivers. Very interesting read. They are very different from the older test used by the IRS, state tax jurisdictions, and set forth in case law. It is very possible that the IRS will modify their test accordingly. At the end of the day, the test used by the NLRB and the IRS should be the same.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

ORT said:


> The union works for you, not against you.


you did not address the argument I made but instead presume to know what is best for me. This is a good illustration of the paternalistic attitude that underlies the whole union argument.

What if.... stay with me here.... what if I know what's best for me and you do not?


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

Robertk said:


> you did not address the argument I made but instead presume to know what is best for me. This is a good illustration of the paternalistic attitude that underlies the whole union argument.
> 
> What if.... stay with me here.... what if I know what's best for me and you do not?


That's why you are driving for Uber.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

ORT said:


> That's why you are driving for Uber.


I drive for the extra cash in my bank each week. I'm not in favor of a union taking some of that cash to give to politicians that do not represent my views. Do you have a counter argument or is telling me that I am too dumb to think for myself the extent of the pro-union argument?


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Robertk said:


> I drive for the extra cash in my bank each week. I'm not in favor of a union taking some of that cash to give to politicians that do not represent my views. Do you have a counter argument or is telling me that I am too dumb to think for myself the extent of the pro-union argument?


You're basic argument is that you want all the benefits of a union without paying for it.

You know the way that Uber runs things puts so much cost on the driver that it makes working for them in many cases a money losing venture and that their at the very least bending current laws in order to do it. You know they treat their workers like disposable garbage. You know that they COULD pay more and/or treat workers better but actively choose not to. What's your likely solution? Well the one I consistently hear from anti union folks is that instead of fighting for our rights as a group - which is the only realistic way to fight a large corporation - we should just leave if we don't like it. That's a piss poor argument to make and its been made before when people protested for things such as civil rights, an 8 hour work day, and every other labor protection we enjoy today. If the laws made it such that unions only had to protect dues paying members - which should be the case - then I'd have no problem leaving you or anyone else who didn't want in to their own "freedom". I have a feeling you'd want in then - though the complaining wouldn't stop...


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## JLA (Mar 26, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> $15 minium wage in Seattle. Who makes that much driving UberX.


Seattle Uber drivers make more then the average Uber driver already @ 1.35/mile with 5.00 base. However, that's still not making 15/hour after you factor out all the costs.


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

riChElwAy said:


> wouldn't it also be nice if you could enter your price in the app (each ride could be like an auction bidding process)


Sidecar operates that way


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

D Town said:


> You're basic argument is that you want all the benefits of a union without paying for it.


that's not my argument at all. You quoted my argument above but fail to understand it. That does not bode well for the idea of union reps understanding my needs and providing value for the money that they demand from me.



D Town said:


> You know they treat their workers like disposable garbage. You know that they COULD pay more and/or treat workers better but actively choose not to.


I have some news for you. Uber does not pay me, the passengers do.



D Town said:


> What's your likely solution?


I don't see a problem, so why should I be required to present a solution? ,



D Town said:


> Well the one I consistently hear from anti union folks is that instead of fighting for our rights as a group which is the only realistic way to fight a large corporation - we should just leave if we don't like it. That's a piss poor argument to make and its been made before when people protested for things such as civil rights, an 8 hour work day, and every other labor protection we enjoy today. If the laws made it such that unions only had to protect dues paying members - which should be the case - then I'd have no problem leaving you or anyone else who didn't want in to their own "freedom". I have a feeling you'd want in then - though the complaining wouldn't stop...


The only one complaining here is people like yourself. I'm quite happy with the gig. I drive in Seattle, you don't. Why should anyone believe that you represent the interests of Seattle drivers better than I do?


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Robertk said:


> that's not my argument at all. You quoted my argument above but fail to understand it. That does not bode well for the idea of union reps understanding my needs and providing value for the money that they demand from me.


Who doesn't understand who now? I understand your argument perfectly and _*as I said*_ I am ALL for those who want nothing to do with unions being left to fend for themselves. Shouldn't that make you happy?



Robertk said:


> I have some news for you. Uber does not pay me, the passengers do.


Really? A pax hands you their card to transfer money into your bank account or hands you cash? I didn't know that was an option. Here I've been thinking all the money went into Uber's account and that I got paid once a week from them...*minus whatever they decide to take from me without informing me* on top of their commission.



Robertk said:


> I don't see a problem, so why should I be required to present a solution?


Wow, okay...logic and reason are out the window here. I think I should probably stop wasting my time.



Robertk said:


> The only one complaining here is people like yourself. I'm quite happy with the gig. I drive in Seattle, you don't. Why should anyone believe that you represent the interests of Seattle drivers better than I do?


The people like myself are the majority. Go out to where drivers congregate and see how many have been driving for 3 years or more. None? Okay how about 2 years. Still no? Surely a year. One or two, huh? Yeah that sounds like most are happy. I've done that. Not only that but most pax I got who asked - which was nearly all...- how long I'd been driving for Uber remarked about how most of the drivers they met had only worked for the company for less than 6 months. But maybe I'm making that up, huh?

_"The survey of 963 active drivers found that almost two-thirds (65 percent) had been driving for six months or less, while 18 percent had been driving for less than two months."

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Lyft-Uber-drivers-turnover-high-wages-low-6585229.php_

The one in the minority here is you, man.


----------



## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Uber did do this to themselves. If they called the kettle black then they would have used their technology to dispatch any commercially vetted, licensed and insured company. They tried to undermine the taxis and now will feel the wrath of its drivers.
They really should have stuck with taxis and limos cause all thier problems stem from UberX. All the rapes, accidents, lawsuits, and deaths and majority of their headaches stunting Ubers grow potential. They are being regulated to death and their own drivers will bury them with shovels. Now Ford, Google, Elon Musk and even Geo Hotz plan to take Uber out. Grab some popcorn!

In other news: http://6abc.com/traffic/taxi-uber-black-drivers-block-streets-protesting-uber-x-lyft/1125009/


----------



## DieselkW (Jul 21, 2015)

I am an independent contractor. Not my ride sharing thing, I am an actual independent contractor. I have one employee. ME. I work for myself, I set my own schedule, I set my rates, I invoice according to a profit and loss internal document here on my laptop. I work when I want, I vacation when I want, and I need not say "Mother May I have tomorrow off" to anyone ever.

If I accept a job, I see it to the end, and make sure the person receiving my invoice is happy with what I've done for them. Customer service is important to me, and I charge what I charge and no one tells me what to do or how to do it. (Well, I have a wife...)

I ride share because the sales cycle from initial proposal to invoice can be 20 months. I get a very nice payday, but only one or two a year... sometimes I go a year without any income. It's the nature of the beast I created - the good thing is I have few competitors. Lyft helps me plug the hole that is draining my savings account for 18-20 months at a time.

So, when I see a group of ride share drivers that actually think they are Independent Contractors I have to laugh. What is independent about having to use the Uber/Lyft app to reach your customers? What is independent about accepting whatever the F**K Uber/Lyft thinks a mile plus a minute is worth in your market, which is DIFFERENT in every OTHER MARKET? What is independent about having to pay a commission to the clearinghouse, but having the clearinghouse take their cut, then send you the balance? What is independent about accepting the stupid and random and completely out of your control rating system that gets you FIRED for a 4.6/5 average? (92%?????) What is independent about having a territory that won't allow you to operate outside of Uber/Lyft boundaries? 

A true independent contractor can work in any state for the price of a license in that state. I have a job in Las Vegas next year. I can't ride share for the 2-3 months I'm going to be there, but I can provide my "other" services there? Oh No! I'll have Indiana plates on my work vehicle!! I guess my customer will be telling me to gain residency and get Nevada plates first, huh?

And most egregious, what is independent about having a "demerit" for not accepting a customer? If I'm independent, leave me the hell alone and I'll make money for you!! If I'm employed, leave me the hell alone and I'll make money for you!! 

We are not independent. Far from it. 
We are not employees. Far from it. 

A union of ride share drivers? Herding cats. Who is going to represent the moving target of ride share drivers that come and go with more regularity than a high fiber diet? How are you going to get people to pay their dues? How are you going to get people that don't pay their dues from enjoying the benefits of dues paying members? I took February off to prospect for gold and didn't find any so I don't want to pay February dues. Oh, Uber is diggin in their heels and won't add a tip option so we are going to strike! Right. We are going to strike until the 5x surge crumbles our resolve in the form of a giant tip of 5x pay. How is the union going to know who is honoring the strike, who is not, and who is not a dues paying member that works because he disagrees with the concept of a union?

Go for it Seattle, find a way to get temporary workers that think they're "independent" to follow union protocols. I hope it results in Travis getting kicked square in the pills. I look forward to my first invoice for union dues here in Indianapolis. I might even send a check if Seattle per mile rates are raised competitively with taxi rates and Seattle drivers have an Uber tip option. That would tell me that the union is effective and worth my support.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Cdaley said:


> I'm a driver in colorado if it does go they it will get locked up in court for a long time!! I think it's a stupid idea to unionize your going to pay a company to talk for you !! I won't join if it makes it to colorado!! Watch there will be some deactivations going on in Seattle !! ill be a union strike breaker !?


POST # 8/Cdaley: Could I interest you
in a Bulk Purchase
of American-Made Exclamation Points?

Bison: CHORTLING HEARTILY.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> The Act establishing the National Labor Relations Board specifically excludes it from having providence over independent contractors.


Federal Law actually takes NO position on the collective bargaining rights of ICs:

Experts say the first argument has less merit: Federal law governs organizing when the workers are employees, but clearly omits independent contractors. "It's not an issue" as long as the workers are indisputably contractors, said Wilma Liebman, a former chairwoman of the National Labor Relations Board. Ms. Liebman conceded that the issue could be more ambiguous if the status of the workers was in dispute, as with Uber.

*Seattle Considers Measure to Let Uber and Lyft Drivers Unionize*


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

DieselkW said:


> We are not independent. Far from it.
> We are not employees. Far from it.


Exactly!
Uber/Lyft classify Drivers as ICs, while treating them as employees, but without any of the benefits enjoyed by employees.

Drivers Do Not want to be employees. What Drivers really want is for Uber/Lyft to stop exerting *excessive control* over All aspects of Drivers routine operations and treat them as true ICs.

Even Judge Chen said this in his ruling certifying the Class Action in the #UberLAWSUIT case:
_"Even if Uber loses this case, it will be free to restructure its relationship with its drivers in such a way that the drivers would actually be bona fide independent contractors." _
_








_
*New Partner Agreement, Binding Arbitration Provision, Opting Out & UberLAWSUITExplained*


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Federal Law actually takes NO position on the collective bargaining rights of ICs:
> 
> Experts say the first argument has less merit: Federal law governs organizing when the workers are employees, but clearly omits independent contractors. "It's not an issue" as long as the workers are indisputably contractors, said Wilma Liebman, a former chairwoman of the National Labor Relations Board. Ms. Liebman conceded that the issue could be more ambiguous if the status of the workers was in dispute, as with Uber.
> 
> *Seattle Considers Measure to Let Uber and Lyft Drivers Unionize*


POST # 72/chi1cabby: Although it MAY
not be Your Thread,
Thank You for Contributing ...YET ANO-
THER Hyperlinked News Story.

Bison: Thanks, St. Comity of Chicago!


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Robertk said:


> I drive for the extra cash in my bank each week.


Most likely you're not part of what's been defined as *"Qualifying Drivers" *in the Seattle Law. So you wouldn't be paying any dues if a Drivers union is actually certified, and conversely, your support for certifying a Driver's Union wouldn't be required.

*Seattle Takes Aim At Uber, Lyft By Letting Drivers Unionize*
_The potential union organization must first gather "statements of interest" from a majority of "qualifying drivers"-those licensed for-hire drivers who has completed at least 150 trips for a taxi company, Uber, or Lyft, in the prior 30 days._

By defining the "Qualifying Drivers" as those whodo ~40 Riders per week (~ 20 Hours of Uber/Lyft driving), the Seattle Law neatly sidesteps the casual Drivers that comprise the majority of Uber's Drivers currently.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

riChElwAy said:


> will the Seattle Uber drivers now demand that the Ratings System be abolished?


.

POSTS # 1-5/riChElwAy: Excellent work
here ! Thank You
for Generating more "Boffo Box Office".

Bison Admires.
Bison Inspires!


----------



## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

from how I understand it, looks like the "union" would be comprised of the full-timers


----------



## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

DieselkW said:


> I am an independent contractor. Not my ride sharing thing, I am an actual independent contractor. I have one employee. ME. I work for myself, I set my own schedule, I set my rates, I invoice according to a profit and loss internal document here on my laptop. I work when I want, I vacation when I want, and I need not say "Mother May I have tomorrow off" to anyone ever.
> 
> If I accept a job, I see it to the end, and make sure the person receiving my invoice is happy with what I've done for them. Customer service is important to me, and I charge what I charge and no one tells me what to do or how to do it. (Well, I have a wife...)
> 
> ...


i believe the top priority with this union movement is the drivers having a say in the rates

the issue of this being a true full-blown organized union, who knows

my question is.. will the union leaders be able to sit down with Uber and say "we want $2.50/mile"

i think this is at the core of the union movement, raising the price and pay for drivers


----------



## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

JLA said:


> The horror that they might give to some democratic/liberal cause. Great idea. Cut off your nose to spite your face.


some people prefer the other guys, why should they be forced to contribute to politicians that do not represent their interests?


chi1cabby said:


> Most likely you're not part of what's been defined as *"Qualifying Drivers" *in the Seattle Law. So you wouldn't be paying any dues if a Drivers union is actually certified, and conversely, your support for certifying a Driver's Union wouldn't be required.
> 
> *Seattle Takes Aim At Uber, Lyft By Letting Drivers Unionize*
> _The potential union organization must first gather "statements of interest" from a majority of "qualifying drivers"-those licensed for-hire drivers who has completed at least 150 trips for a taxi company, Uber, or Lyft, in the prior 30 days._
> ...


last week I did 85 trips, the week before I did 94. So although I do have a FT job I would also be considered FT for purposes of this law and be required to pay the union dues regardless of whether I support the goals and methods of the union.

Moreover I strongly object to the invasion of privacy by having my name/address released to union representatives who in the past have a long history of reprisals against those who do not join- sometimes those reprisals cross the line into violence.

One final note not yet raised. Seattle is a sanctuary city which means that they actively encourage illegal immigration. Just yesterday a passenger told me I was the first white driver she has seen in months. How exactly will this union work if the city itself keeps importing large numbers of foreign labor willing to do the work for less $?

Seattle also has large numbers of homeless camping in tents besides the freeways. Hundreds of them. Why the rush to import labor from foreign shores when a large part of the population is already marginalized?


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Robertk said:


> Seattle is a sanctuary city which means that they actively encourage illegal immigration. Just yesterday a passenger told me I was the first white driver she has seen in months


Those non white Drivers are not illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants cannot drive for Uber or Lyft.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Fact Checking Uber On Labor Laws*
*http://www.npr.org/sections/alltech...hare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social*


----------



## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> Those non white Drivers are not illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants cannot drive for Uber or Lyft.


WA state has 400,000 illegal immigrants with drivers licenses

http://www.vdare.com/articles/why-a...ens-in-washington-state-driving-with-licenses

_Among many forms of identification, Washington State accepts "multiple documents issued by: the Mexican government and the Guatemalan government." Besides identification, the state DOL website says that the applicant must have a Social Security number&#8230;but not really.

The DOL website says that if the applicant does not have a Social Security number, then proof of Washington state residence must be presented. Some of the acceptable documents are a gas, electric or garbage bill._


----------



## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

S for the driverless car parts of this thread, I just heard on the news a law was passed that requires a person to be in moving vehicle at all times.

Duh


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Robertk said:


> WA state has 400,000 illegal immigrants with drivers licenses


Who cares? How many of those homeless people that I'm DOUBTLESS you care about have cars to do Uber? Can pass a background check? Can afford to maintain a vehicle? Do tell me how an illegal immigrant has anything to do with this topic at all?


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

DriverX said:


> GREAT NEWS! Uber will fight it but I think it has legs:
> 
> "I think one really great thing about the proposed Seattle ordinance is it takes away some of the incentive to misclassify drivers [as independent]," Garden said. "It seems like a sensible way to respond to [a] growing problem."
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/uber-seattle-union_566f3e49e4b011b83a6c3b24?utm_hp_ref=politics


POST # 20/DriverX: Bostonian Bison
Thanks You for this
Hyperlinked "HuffPost" Article of inter-
est to Lyft/#[F]Uberistas that are under
no illusions about AntiPersonnel LLC 's
"Bottomless Duplicity". Additionally, 
"The Nod" to "NewsMeister" chi1cabby
does NOT go unnoticed.

BTW: "FrogDog" Avatar is ....a HOWL!
Bison: Chortling.


----------



## Ubermon (Aug 19, 2014)

Robertk, how does not having control over a Union's political leanings/actions differ from not having control over Uber's political leanings/actions? In fact, how does it differ from not being able to control the political leanings/actions of anyone you do any type of transaction with? Do you know your grocery stores political donations? Or your car insurance company? How about your internet provider? I mean you hand these people a good chuck of $ every single month...


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> _"The Freelancers Union, which is based in Brooklyn, doesn't bargain with employers, but it does address what is by far these workers' No. 1 concern, by providing them with affordable health insurance. Its health insurance company covers 23,000 workers in New York State and has $105 million in annual revenue."_
> 
> _"Some union old-timers argue that the Freelancers Union is more like an association than a union and will not be able to achieve truly significant gains for workers. Its members don't pay union dues, which means that joining requires no sacrifice, and the Freelancers Union doesn't negotiate contracts with employers or represent freelancers when they have grievances. (Under the National Labor Relations Act, freelancers are considered independent contractors, not employees, and employers thus have no obligation to bargain with them, even when they form a union.)"_
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/b...les-concerns-of-independent-workers.html?_r=0


POST # 28/Old Rocker: Many thanks for
your elucidative efforts
regarding "The Freelancers Union".AND
the Hyperlinked N.Y. Times Article.

Another "Informational Nod" to the
"NewsMeister" chi1cabby won't go
unnoticed.

chi1cabby....did you notice the Re-
emergance [from under a rock] of a
Certain Former #[F]Uber PooBah to
excoriate the "commodity" once again?
Per usual, he's pissing on the Membership
then snarkily announcing ,"Hey! It's raining."

Bison: Elephantine Memory.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Kool Aid drinker, just a realist who prefers to be an IC and work where, when, and how much I want to.
> 
> I don't want to be an employee and have a 22 year old boss who lives with his or her parents and has no concept of how the real world works.


POST # 30/Old Rocker: Didn't the Nabob
of Northridge run
home to Mummy and Papa after his
First Hindenberg...err...umm.."Excellent
Adventure" during the Severe Depressive
Phase of his Obviously UNMedicated
BiPolar Condition ?

Bison: Wiki Emperor @$$hat.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Robertk said:


> WA state has 400,000 illegal immigrants with drivers licenses


I could be wrong on this, but I think Washington State DLs issued to illegal immigrants are marked differently, as they are in California, Utah and Nevada, and thus cannot be used for employment purposes.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> chi1cabby....did you notice the Re-
> emergance [from under a rock] of a
> Certain Former #[F]Uber PooBah to
> excoriate the "commodity" once again?


 Yes I did notice john djjjoe's reemergence on this thread. And I chose to ignore his post.
Perhaps he should focus on how TravisK won't let him exercise his stock options, if he actually owns any, at their full private equity valuation:
*How Uber cleverly controls its stock so it won't have to go public anytime soon *


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Yes I did notice john djjjoe's reemergence on this thread. And I chose to ignore his post.
> Perhaps he should focus on how TravisK won't let him exercise his stock options, if he actually owns any, at their full private equity valuation:
> *How Uber cleverly controls its stock so it won't have to go public anytime soon *


POST # 87/chi1cabby: "FASKINATIN'!"
Curly of Three Stooges


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

BurgerTiime said:


> Uber did do this to themselves. If they called the kettle black then they would have used their technology to dispatch any commercially vetted, licensed and insured company. They tried to undermine the taxis and now will feel the wrath of its drivers.
> They really should have stuck with taxis and limos cause all thier problems stem from UberX. All the rapes, accidents, lawsuits, and deaths and majority of their headaches stunting Ubers grow potential. They are being regulated to death and their own drivers will bury them with shovels. Now Ford, Google, Elon Musk and even Geo Hotz plan to take Uber out. Grab some popcorn!
> 
> In other news: http://6abc.com/traffic/taxi-uber-black-drivers-block-streets-protesting-uber-x-lyft/1125009/


POST # 66/BurgerTiime: Thank You for
the Hyperlinked
Philadelphia NEWS-6 ABC TV Story.

Bison: Googling "Geo Hotz". I wonder if
☆ he uses a "Hard G" pronounciation ?


----------



## john djjjoe (Feb 20, 2015)

William1964 said:


> Moving forward as a pretend uber executive or whatever Council, I would look into accepting the demand for expenses but uber gets the mileage the federal tax deduction.
> 
> As the law states you can either use expenses or mileage. You can use the mileage only in part of the depreciation of your vehicle which you would then add into your expense right off.
> 
> ...


Is this a joke?


----------



## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

Ubermon said:


> Robertk, how does not having control over a Union's political leanings/actions differ from not having control over Uber's political leanings/actions? In fact, how does it differ from not being able to control the political leanings/actions of anyone you do any type of transaction with? Do you know your grocery stores political donations? Or your car insurance company? How about your internet provider? I mean you hand these people a good chuck of $ every single month...


the grocery store and car insurance companies do not directly take money from me for political advocacy. At worst they take some of their profit and use the money to lobby for their OWN business, not mine.

OTOH, unions take money from members and use the money to attempt to influence their members to vote for political candidates and causes. I don't need money taken from me to be spent on trying to influence my vote. I'm more than capable of deciding for myself how I want to vote.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304782404577488584031850026

_Another difference is that companies use their political money differently than unions do, spending a far larger share of it on lobbying, while not undertaking anything equivalent to unions' drives to persuade members to vote as the leadership dictates.
_


----------



## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

D Town said:


> Who cares? How many of those homeless people that I'm DOUBTLESS you care about have cars to do Uber? Can pass a background check? Can afford to maintain a vehicle? Do tell me how an illegal immigrant has anything to do with this topic at all?


FFS- it goes like this....

import illegals --> give them driver licenses without documentation --> allow them to pass background checks--> allow them to drive UBER --> fewer fares for me, and fewer surges. Do they not teach supply and demand in schools these days?

and in regards to the homeless, if they kept their tent area clean I probably would care alot less. But as it is they are highly visible alongside the roads and they collect HUGE amounts of garbage. My tourist passengers wonder why Seattle tolerates it and I have to explain why a obviously wealthy city like Seattle tolerates hundreds of homeless garbage collectors camping alongside the freeways. I have no answer as to why Seattle is importing illegals when the homeless are right there, they are Americans, and they need help FIRST, before the illegals.


----------



## andaas (May 19, 2015)

Don't be silly, the homeless people make more money by *not* driving for Uber.


----------



## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

andaas said:


> Don't be silly, the homeless people make more money by *not* driving for Uber.


this is true! beggars make $200/hr

http://nypost.com/2015/11/11/this-bum-boasts-he-makes-200-an-hour-panhandling/


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Robertk said:


> this is true! beggars make $200/hr


Well please don't post it over here then!
Uber might just uberize begging!


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Robertk said:


> FFS- it goes like this....
> 
> import illegals --> give them driver licenses without documentation --> allow them to pass background checks--> allow them to drive UBER --> fewer fares for me, and fewer surges. Do they not teach supply and demand in schools these days?


You say "import illegals" as if its a policy decision by the government however last map I checked there are more illegals in Texas, Nevada, Illinois, Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, and likely a few others that I missed than there are in Washington. I suppose they have a warm and fuzzy welcoming attitude towards the illegals too?

The vast majority of illegal immigrants aren't doing Uber especially not in Washington. They aren't stupid, they want to actually MAKE money. Some will likely do it on the side but the impact is minimal and like native born drivers they don't do that crap long before they go do something to make real money. All this said I STILL don't see how this is hurting the homeless. There are FAR more illegals in many other parts of this country that don't have the same problems with homelessness. What's causing the homeless problems have more to do with the high cost of living and the lack of affordable housing. Illegals don't budge those numbers.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ap_illegal_immigrant_population_by_state.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news.../where-americas-undocumented-immigrants-work/

http://www.endhomelessness.org/blog...5-trends-in-chronic-homelessness#.VnSIRvkrLcs

http://greaterseattlecares.org/wp-content/uploads/Homelessness-Myths-and-facts.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homel...eless_persons_in_the_Seattle_King_County_area.

http://invw.org/2015/03/02/after-10-year-plan-why-does-seattle-have-more-homeless-than-ever/



Robertk said:


> and in regards to the homeless, if they kept their tent area clean I probably would care alot less. But as it is they are highly visible alongside the roads and they collect HUGE amounts of garbage. My tourist passengers wonder why Seattle tolerates it and I have to explain why a obviously wealthy city like Seattle tolerates hundreds of homeless garbage collectors camping alongside the freeways. I have no answer as to why Seattle is importing illegals when the homeless are right there, they are Americans, and they need help FIRST, before the illegals.


As for the garbage does the city also provide trash pickup around these camps? Perhaps put a few open top dumpsters around for the people to PUT their trash? No? Then WHERE exactly are the homeless supposed to put the garbage? Have you ever seen what a neighborhood looks like when there is a sanitation strike?









And what's your solution? Tear down the encampments and force the homeless out to preserve the image of the city? Where are they going to go? There aren't enough shelters or affordable housing. You just want to shuffle them around the city? You want to destroy what little they have just for the sake of aesthetics? Maybe give them fines they can't pay or put them in jails? How is that solving the problem? The homeless problem and illegal immigrant issue are two separate issues.


----------



## North End Eric (Sep 12, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> In Houston they are required to use the meter and charge the metered rate, except for some city designated flat rate trips. Cabbies aren't permitted to charge less than the city mandates rates.
> 
> Not saying they don't in reality.


Same in Seattle.


----------



## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

D Town said:


> The vast majority of illegal immigrants aren't doing Uber especially not in Washington. They aren't stupid, they want to actually MAKE money.


lemme get this straight. Illegal immigrants are not stupid, so they do not drive Uber.... leaving stupid Americans to drive Uber.

really?

is that REALLY how you think of Americans?

I think I see the problem....


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Robertk said:


> lemme get this straight. Illegal immigrants are not stupid, so they do not drive Uber.... leaving stupid Americans to drive Uber.
> 
> really?
> 
> ...


Oh you're one of those.

Yeah I'm anti american. THAT must be it. Why else would I not agree with you?


----------



## DieselkW (Jul 21, 2015)

D Town - Don't wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and the pig likes it. 


D Town said:


> Yeah I'm anti american. THAT must be it.


The Fox is strong with some... no amount of reasonable discourse will change anything. Tiny bits of what you write will be cherry picked and then twisted to a different meaning and then in a mic drop statement, an attempt to invalidate your entire argument by a veiled accusation of anti-Americanism.

Don't rise to the bait, trust me - after decades of family gatherings I have accepted that I am powerless to change others.


----------



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Robertk there is legitimate doubt about your contention that Undocumented (Illegal) Immigrants can drive Uber by using the special Drivers Licenses issued to them.

As I've posted above, these special DLs are marked "Driving Privileges Only" or "Not Valid for Identification" in Utah, California & Nevada.

Would you mind please calling Washington State Dept of Motor Vehicles and ask if these WA State DLs are specially marked as well, and if they can be used for Employment Purposes.

Thank you!


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

DieselkW said:


> D Town - Don't wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and the pig likes it.
> 
> The Fox is strong with some... no amount of reasonable discourse will change anything. Tiny bits of what you write will be cherry picked and then twisted to a different meaning and then in a mic drop statement, an attempt to invalidate your entire argument by a veiled accusation of anti-Americanism.
> 
> Don't rise to the bait, trust me - after decades of family gatherings I have accepted that I am powerless to change others.


Wise words. I've bashed my head into many of those brick walls to no avail. I don't know why I keep trying. Either I'm dumber than I wish to accept or more stubborn than is good for me to keep trying logic and reason when it clearly won't work. I'd likely be happier just blocking straight off and moving on but I'm going to try and give the benefit of the doubt and see if I get more insults or a logical response.


----------



## jdjd (Jan 19, 2016)

Cdaley said:


> I'm a driver in colorado if it does go they it will get locked up in court for a long time!! I think it's a stupid idea to unionize your going to pay a company to talk for you !! I won't join if it makes it to colorado!! Watch there will be some deactivations going on in Seattle !! ill be a union strike breaker !?


I agree with you. Don't be fooled, drivers. Unionize might seem to help increase pay for a short term (but enforcement, opposed to sustainable market value), but eventually, it drives the _unnecessary _cost up that would pass on the passengers. Pax will find other alternatives with lower price. The idea sounds good, but does not solve the issue.

These types of jobs are not designed to be the best career choices, although many of hard working folks are depending on it to provide for their families. It might be okay as a supplemental income or a time of transition for a job that does not require much skill (not intended to be rude, but in all honestly that the requirement to fill this job is not high. Not hard for Uber/Lyft to be on the upper hand ). I would rather have the "market" determine the fair price. If the rate for the drive is not worthy of our efforts, then it might be time to move on (or log out until the surge goes up to a rate that you deem worth your effort, as many drivers have been doing - see post in https://uberpeople.net/threads/the-tide-is-changing.62406/). When there is not enough drivers, then companies would offer more incentives to attract more labor.

_"The biggest myth about labor unions is that unions are for workers. Unions are for unions, just as corporations are for corporations and politicians are for politicians....The most fundamental fact about labor unions is that they do not create any wealth. They are one of a growing number of institutions which specialize in siphoning off wealth created by others, whether they are businesses or the taxpayers...." (more, see http://www.nationalreview.com/article/261536/union-myths-thomas-sowell)_

Thomas Sowell: Unemployment caused by minimum wage and labor unions!


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## DieselkW (Jul 21, 2015)

^^^^What a load^^^^
A brand new member (since Tuesday) shows up to say:
1. Unions don't help workers
2. How Uber is not really a job, it's for low skilled worker transition to a job.

I guess I better go get a job, because jdjd says what I'm doing full time is just for supplemental income.

Well, you got that part right. It takes 50-60 hours a week to make what amounts to supplemental income. Then I have to buy fuel and tires and brakes and stuff, pay the insurance bill, and have the car cleaned.

What do you call supplemental income minus expenses?

UBER!


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Well have a read of what Uber is doing regarding Seattle Unionization ordinance, thanx to our resident CSR, thehappytypist:


thehappytypist said:


> Dear Seattle drivers: SO sorry to bother you with stupid anti-union blather over the phone. We hate it so much.





thehappytypist said:


> They have us making phone calls to AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALL the partners in Seattle in regards to the ordinance passed that allows rideshare drivers to unionize. There's some questions at the beginning about how happy they are with Uber, then there's a spiel at the end about how unions suck and how Uber thinks that ordinance is illegal or some shit like that.


*I have returned!*


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

DieselkW said:


> ^^^^What a load^^^^
> A brand new member (since Tuesday) shows up to say:
> 1. Unions don't help workers
> 2. How Uber is not really a job, it's for low skilled worker transition to a job.
> ...


POST # 104/DieselkW: Ba Dum.....BUMP!
Psssssssshhhhh.....
Can YOU spell : "B-B-B-B O O Y A H "?

"Cannot Post Link" ...WHY am I NOT SUR-
PRISED "QuestionMark-4-Avatarred" One ?

NUberer "feels the Bern" ?
BTW: GREAT SIGNATURE LINE !
Bison Chortling!


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