# 2017 Ford Fusion Hybrid



## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

@OldBay ... I know you were looking at Fusions, is that what you ended up going with? How is it driving?

I'm potentially looking for a new ride share car, and keep going back in forth between X, XL, higher platforms, hybrid. The lure of higher platforms is very real, but outside of perhaps winter ski season and Sundance, I just remain in limbo about higher platforms. And when I look at a $10k Hybrid that I could drive until it dies, vs high platform starting at $30k, that is a ton of $$$$ to make up driving. Not to mention the end of life years on say, a SUV on the higher platforms is low. When I can potentially get a good used hybrid for <$11k. That I can see getting 3-4+ years out of.

Just glancing through some adds, I see a 2017 Fusion w/ 79k miles for $10k. I've dealt with this dealership before and they are pretty straight forward no haggle pricing and cars they list at a reasonable price (lower KBB range). $10k I can't fork the cash over, but perhaps $4k then finance the remaining. Over 3 years shouldn't be much. This dealership gets a lot of cars from rental agencies. They have numerous 2017 Fusions all in the $10-11k price range and mileage.

Food for thought for today on the Ford Fusion Hybrid. Once upon a time I swore never to buy another Ford. But our 2003 Ford Windstar nearing 200k miles is still chugging away.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

DriverMark said:


> @OldBay ... I know you were looking at Fusions, is that what you ended up going with? How is it driving?
> 
> I'm potentially looking for a new ride share car, and keep going back in forth between X, XL, higher platforms, hybrid. The lure of higher platforms is very real, but outside of perhaps winter ski season and Sundance, I just remain in limbo about higher platforms. And when I look at a $10k Hybrid that I could drive until it dies, vs high platform starting at $30k, that is a ton of $$$$ to make up driving. Not to mention the end of life years on say, a SUV on the higher platforms is low. When I can potentially get a good used hybrid for <$11k. That I can see getting 3-4+ years out of.
> 
> ...


I bought a 14 Ford C-Max hybrid w/ 65K mi. which uses the exact same powertrain as the FFH. I'm very happy with it so far. $9500.

The C-max original mpg estimates of 47/47 were downrated, but according to the computer I'm getting 47mpg avg, and based on hand calculation at the pump, I'm getting 45 mpg avg. There seem to be a range of real world mpg results from high 30s to low 50s from owners. Its winter now, so its conceivable that in spring/fall it will get closer to 50mpg avg.

Is this good? The thing that is impressive about the CMax is the entire package. The handling and acceleration are impressive. Its not just a good hybrid, but a good car. When you're not trying to get good mpg it drives and handles like a hot hatch. Its hustles and carves corners well, and its really quiet inside when you're cruising. Interior has high quality materials, alloy wheels are standard, etc, etc. Better than a Prius in EVERY way other than mpg and possibly reliability.

The gas + electric motor under hard throttle gives alot of torque. It never struggles even with five people. A car this athletic shouldn't be getting 45mpg avg.

I opted for the C-max over the FFH because I wanted a higher seating position and more storage capacity. Both cars are priced about the same, which is a few thousand less than an equivalent year/mi Prius or Camry hybrid.

I read that the battery takes up alot of the trunk space in the FFH, but did not test one. The Cmax is taller to begin with, and its easy to lower the rear seats if you need more capacity, so it probably has more cargo capacity.

The FFH printed mpg specs are higher (were originally the same), but they use the exact same powertrain so I'm sure they are very close. It stands to reason that highway mpg for the cmax will be a bit worse because of more wind resistance.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Another thing I forgot to mention is battery life.

Testing of early mules show a 6% decline in capacity over 100K miles, but that does not necessarily translate into worse mileage.

The way it works is its constantly cycling between charging and using the battery, so a lower capacity battery means that it may just cycle between charge/discharge more rapidly. Somewhere around 60% of my total miles are EV miles using the battery.

Anecdotes of cmax taxis getting 300K+ miles. At this point I'm not concerned about battery life. My plan was to get a car that I could put 200K miles on over 4-6 years. Gas savings alone will pay for the purchase price over 100K miles.

Avoid the plug in models. Degradation of their battery really does cut into performance and they have less trunk space.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DriverMark said:


> @OldBay ... I know you were looking at Fusions, is that what you ended up going with? How is it driving?
> 
> I'm potentially looking for a new ride share car, and keep going back in forth between X, XL, higher platforms, hybrid. The lure of higher platforms is very real, but outside of perhaps winter ski season and Sundance, I just remain in limbo about higher platforms. And when I look at a $10k Hybrid that I could drive until it dies, vs high platform starting at $30k, that is a ton of $$$$ to make up driving. Not to mention the end of life years on say, a SUV on the higher platforms is low. When I can potentially get a good used hybrid for <$11k. That I can see getting 3-4+ years out of.
> 
> ...


Jatco Transmission.

Beware the C.V.T. Transmission !


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

DriverMark said:


> @OldBay ... I know you were looking at Fusions, is that what you ended up going with? How is it driving?
> 
> I'm potentially looking for a new ride share car, and keep going back in forth between X, XL, higher platforms, hybrid. The lure of higher platforms is very real, but outside of perhaps winter ski season and Sundance, I just remain in limbo about higher platforms. And when I look at a $10k Hybrid that I could drive until it dies, vs high platform starting at $30k, that is a ton of $$$$ to make up driving. Not to mention the end of life years on say, a SUV on the higher platforms is low. When I can potentially get a good used hybrid for <$11k. That I can see getting 3-4+ years out of.
> 
> ...


American made? Not a chance.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

I own a 2013 Fusion Titanium (non-hybrid). It was my original ride-share car, and now serves as a backup to my Suburban.

The batteries for the hybrid Fusion take up a significant amount of the trunk space. Be aware if you are trying to run airport trips.

Also, don't skimp on the cheap gas, mIne needed new fuel injectors within the original manufacturer's warranty period.

Also stay away from the 19" sport wheels. Very hard to find these tires.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DexNex said:


> I own a 2013 Fusion Titanium (non-hybrid). It was my original ride-share car, and now serves as a backup to my Suburban.
> 
> The batteries for the hybrid Fusion take up a significant amount of the trunk space. Be aware if you are trying to run airport trips.
> 
> ...


beautiful car.
11 cu. Ft. Trunk.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

I have a 2020 Fusion Hybrid Plug-in and I'm averaging 67MPG. Smooth ride and very quiet even when the engine is running other than when you are at full military power, then it's pretty loud.

Like @DexNex said truck space is laughable. You can fit 2 carry on bags and that is about it. I don't do much airport runs and so far I only had one issue with a big bag that I had to put in the back seat.

As for the CVT it is the same unit used in the C-Max and Escape Hybrid models that have seen many many many miles of hard Taxi service in places like NY and SF and it has proven itself to be reliable over time.


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## Jon Stoppable (Dec 11, 2019)

I don't know much about hybrids, but I do know a little about batteries. As they age, their capacity does drop, which as you noted isn't very important for a hybrid. But also, their internal resistance increases. That means they will be a bit less efficient overall as they will waste more power on charging and discharging, but it's probably not a noticeable difference over a short period of time. Maybe 1-2mpg or so.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Fusion_LUser said:


> I have a 2020 Fusion Hybrid Plug-in and I'm averaging 67MPG. Smooth ride and very quiet even when the engine is running other than when you are full military power, then it's pretty loud.
> 
> Like @DexNex said truck space is laughable. You can fit 2 carry on bags and that is about it. I don't do much airport runs and so far I only had one issue with a big bag that I had to put in the back seat.
> 
> As for the CVT it is the same unit used in the C-Max and Escape Hybrid models that have seen many many many miles of hard Taxi service in places like NY and SF and it has proven itself to be reliable over time.


Airport runs are the only Real pay here.

Its why i passed on the Fusion a while back.



Fusion_LUser said:


> I have a 2020 Fusion Hybrid Plug-in and I'm averaging 67MPG. Smooth ride and very quiet even when the engine is running other than when you are at full military power, then it's pretty loud.
> 
> Like @DexNex said truck space is laughable. You can fit 2 carry on bags and that is about it. I don't do much airport runs and so far I only had one issue with a big bag that I had to put in the back seat.
> 
> As for the CVT it is the same unit used in the C-Max and Escape Hybrid models that have seen many many many miles of hard Taxi service in places like NY and SF and it has proven itself to be reliable over time.


I own a 2 wheel drive escape hybrid.
( actually gave it to my son )
It is Not a C.V.T.

Im looking hard at the kia Niro hybrid.
19 cu. Ft
Cargo.
Lots of rear seat room.
51 m.p.g.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

I should have added that the front bucket seats in the Titanium models are really comfy. Some of the best seats I have sat on. If you are going to be in a car all day, this one is not bad.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DexNex said:


> I should have added that the front bucket seats in the Titanium models are really comfy. Some of the best seats I have sat on. If you are going to be in a car all day, this one is not bad.


They are Beautiful Cars.
But.
Rear headroom is also lacking.
Hertz had some great deals on Fusion Hybrids not long ago
All under 40,000 miles.
All under $12,000.00
The 11 cu. Ft. Trunk !

A Toyota Camry gets up to 40 m.p.g. non hybrid.
Bigger trunk.
51 m.p.g. kia 19 cu ft.

( NOT A PRIUS !)


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Hybrid trunk...


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Imo, the cmax is a better rideshare car because of interior space and cargo capacity. The cmax was replaced with the escape hybrid, thats the one to get if you want newer.

I just think that eventually headroom or trunk space or both will be an issue with the fusion. Oth, it is a better looking car.

The windshield on the cmax is huge and it creates a really open feeling along with the moonroof.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

OldBay said:


> Imo, the cmax is a better rideshare car because of interior space and cargo capacity. The cmax was replaced with the escape hybrid, thats the one to get if you want newer.
> 
> I just think that eventually headroom or trunk space or both will be an issue with the fusion. Oth, it is a better looking car.
> 
> The windshield on the cmax is huge and it creates a really open feeling along with the moonroof.


C-Max Hybrid has 25Ft trunk space... more than double the Fusion Hybrid model.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> They are Beautiful Cars.
> But.
> Rear headroom is also lacking.
> Hertz had some great deals on Fusion Hybrids not long ago
> ...


Rideshare mpg is closer to city mpg.

A NEW camry gets 40mpg highway, but driven for rideshare, its probably getting 27-29mpg. An old camry probably 25mpg. An equal age hybrid getting close to 2x the mpg for rideshare.

And its not just about mpg, but range. I hate filling up.


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## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

@DriverMark

Not sure if there are different criteria when it comes to financing to a non-citizen, non-PR like me.

When first come to the States, I was about to apply for a car loan through Chase. The bank lady told me that she was almost certain that my application would be declined for the following reasons
1) new to country means no credit histoy
2) there was only $8k in my newly opened account at that time (meaning I cannot use all the $ for a down payment)
3) car of interest must be within 5 years of age
3) amount to be financed must be >$10k.

I did not even bother to try approaching another bank. I then received the $5k that I wired from my overseas bank account, went to the dealer and paid $10k cash for my car.

You also mentioned that the dealer that has the car of your interest obtains cars from rental companies. In Houston, we have a famous mechanic with 50 years + experience called Scotty Kilmer. You can look him up in YouTube. One of the few things that I have learnt from him is to never buy a rental vehicle. Renters abuse the vehicles and the rental companies couldn't care less. Minimal maintenance (if any) before the cars are sold with 40-70k miles on the clock above the market value.

As for a hybrid car, the battery has to be installed somewhere which compromises the trunk space. It should be fine if you don't do airport runs too often. I have cancelled on a few people who tried to put luggages in the cabin when I was a rookie. Note that I have a full size Lexus yet the trunk reached full capacity. Not a chance. Who knows if their luggages were contaminated with bed bugs.

A few friends of mine and my sister learnt the hard way to stay away from hybrid and electric cars. Battery replacement is no joke. May be it is just them having bad luck...



tohunt4me said:


> Jatco Transmission.
> 
> Beware the C.V.T. Transmission !


 And hence, no Nissans!:winking:


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Trunk space is a show stopper. Airport is the bread and butter here. 

Just tonight I crammed a full size suite case and 3 carry ones into the trunk. Sounds like the Fusion no way could handle that. I'll have to go look at one, but sounds like I have my answer.


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## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

10k ? Why spend twice as much ? Buy a solid older model used car for 5k like a Corolla that you know you will get 3 years and 200k miles out of and burn it to the ground . Rinse and repeat . Remember : You get what you paid for . Why would you provide anything above and beyond that for paxholes ?


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

radikia said:


> 10k ? Why spend twice as much ? Buy a solid older model used car for 5k like a Corolla that you know you will get 3 years and 200k miles out of and burn it to the ground . Rinse and repeat . Remember : You get what you paid for . Why would you provide anything above and beyond that for paxholes ?


I am in a 10 year market. It's difficult to find a 5k car.

Also, regarding loans..there are age limits for used cars. Most lenders won't give loan past seven years. So marks strategy to put 4k down and finance the rest, to get a car he can rideshare for 6 years, vs buying a disposable two year car...is sound.

Driver Mark..I just went through the hybrid decision. Because I'm in a 10 year market, the cmax was best choice. Prius Camry Avalon hybrids cost much more...ffh too small trunk..Prius too small and slow. Honda insight the same..there was no escape hybrid in the 4-7 year range...and other manus didn't start making respectable hybrids til recently. Cmax was only one that works for me. It's a bit ugly, but perfect otherwise.

Second choice would have been Camry hybrid, knowing I'd pay a good bit more or get high mileage.

Ford and Toyota own all the hybrid patents and cross license.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

OldBay said:


> Ford and Toyota own all the hybrid patents and cross license.


No. Paice LLC owns the main patents governing hybrid technology and allows Toyota, Ford, Kia, Hyudai and others to use their tech under licence.

http://www.paicehybrid.com


OldBay said:


> The cmax was replaced with the escape hybrid


Again, no. The Escape Hybrid was introduced in 2005, 7 years before the Cmax. And neither could replace the other - they are in different vehicle classes. The Escape is an SUV while the Cmax is an extended Focus.



DriverMark said:


> @OldBay ... I know you were looking at Fusions, is that what you ended up going with? How is it driving?
> 
> I'm potentially looking for a new ride share car, and keep going back in forth between X, XL, higher platforms, hybrid. The lure of higher platforms is very real, but outside of perhaps winter ski season and Sundance, I just remain in limbo about higher platforms. And when I look at a $10k Hybrid that I could drive until it dies, vs high platform starting at $30k, that is a ton of $$$$ to make up driving. Not to mention the end of life years on say, a SUV on the higher platforms is low. When I can potentially get a good used hybrid for <$11k. That I can see getting 3-4+ years out of.
> 
> ...


Just be sure to avoid the 2013 and 2014 Fusion Hybrids and Cmax. They were manufactured with faulty differential bearings in the CVT transmission which often requires complete transmission replacement before 100,000 miles  . TSB bulletin here:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10148717-9999.pdf


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> No. Paice LLC owns the main patents governing hybrid technology and allows Toyota, Ford, Kia, Hyudai and others to use their tech under licence.
> 
> http://www.paicehybrid.com
> 
> ...


https://www.wardsauto.com/news-analysis/toyota-technology-kick-started-ford-s-hybrid-escape
"A Ford spokesman says Ford didn't copy much of Toyota's hybrid blueprint and didn't necessarily have to obtain the rights to use all of the approximately 20 patents it grabbed from Toyota. Ford has 100 of its own hybrid-related patents on the vehicle."

Paice LLC sounds like patent trolls.

When the Cmax was introduced in the US (2013), the Escape Hybrid was cancelled. When the C-max was cancelled, they reintroduced the Escape hybrid. The Cmax is a MPV built on the Focus platform. The Escape is a crossover built on the Focus platform. Obviously Ford believes they occupy the same space.


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