# Why not to invest in Uber



## Hans GrUber (Apr 23, 2016)

In this post, I'd like to illustrate why not to invest in Uber, Uber's plan of action, and why Uber will be a punchline in the future.

First, most drivers that are on the forum have A CLUE. I think most still think they earn more than they actually do, but most also understand that we are being taken advantage of. One of the things that drivers on here love to mock Uber for is their current inability to make a profit. It's fun and it's always good to have ammo for the target, but we have to understand that this doesn't bother Uber in the slightest and I will explain why.

At first Uber's plan was just to be an on-demand, luxury car service. This was fine. I don't know how long they could be relevant before someone else entered the ring, but they could have easily managed to turn a profit. They are dealing with a smaller fleet and a higher class of clientele. This means they would be able to safely vet drivers with more comprehensive background checks, address serious incidents quickly, and avoid a lot of the issues that rear their heads when dealing with the dregs we pick up on a regular basis. I don't know if this was ALWAYS the plan, but Uber decided they wanted to become a giant for on-demand private transportation. The end goal for Uber now is to fully (or at least primarily) have a fleet of autonomous vehicles while being the go-to for on demand transport in the future. If it works, Uber will be a CASH COW and these losses will be nothing but a distant memory. It won't, and this is why.

The only reason Uber continues to operate now, and the only advantage to being THE NAME in rideshare (as they broaden to food delivery, trucking, whatever else) is BRANDING. That's it. This is going to fail miserably for a few reasons:

First, the brand quality continues to deteriorate. As drivers continue to grow more dissatisfied with each pay cut and screwjob, the level of service plummets. You read a story every day if you look for it about a disgruntled driver. The quality of the cars continues to plummet as well. As drivers realize their tip rate is more closely related to the luck of getting a good pax, rather than quality of service, drivers are less likely to keep their cars clean. On top of that, as pay continues to drop, car maintenance continues to be deprioritized for hungry drivers. Add to that, Uber drivers probably aren't the most forward-thinking people in the world and there is no vetting process. So between point of service experience and media backlash, the brand is diminishing in value.

Second, the self driving car 'Space-race' vs the importance of branding. It looks like Uber is NOT going to figure out autonomous technology prior to competitors. If that is the case, how long do you think it will take for a technology giant like Google with a war chest to effectively market, while also subsidizing rides to steal customers? It's 2018. There's no such thing as brand loyalty anymore. We're living in a world where economic benefit outweighs ethics. The answer to "is this right?" is now determined by financial gain. So, while the only reason for Uber to even be operating right now given their losses is branding, it's not going to have the same benefit it would have 10-20 years ago. 

Third, they are providing a playbook for other companies. They were the first people to venture into the globalization of rideshare, and that comes with a lot of risk, with the potential reward being THE rideshare company of the future. So, again, while they continue to get hit with lawsuits and regulations and bad publicity, those waiting in the weeds just let Uber work it all out. Like I said, it is going to take NOTHING but subsidized rides and effective marketing to win Uber's customer base, provided the experience the competitor provides is also higher quality, which it WILL be. Oh, and let's not forget about all the lawsuits Uber is GOING to face when employees start coming forward with ethical failures from the present, past, and (I'm sure they won't disappoint) future.

So in conclusion, Uber is going to be nothing more than a punchline if self-driving vehicles are realized. If they are not, Uber should survive, but the only way they can be profitable would be charging pax significantly higher, which is going to kill the current supply of drivers, waiting 2 hours between pings. So, yeah, DO NOT make Uber full time and DO NOT invest in them long-term.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

You already in Invested in Uber ... your cars equity & your irrecoverable man Hours


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## ecarpio (Apr 20, 2017)

Love this: “Uber drivers probably aren't the most forward-thinking people in the world.”


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Uber exists at present because it has been given 20 billion dollars in venture capital.
Has no pathway to profit.
Has not invested in anything that will ever profit. Flying cars are nothing more than pr BS.
Robot cars progress legitimately laughable. Bikes and scooters check how lime etc are going. Eats still losing money.
You can pretty much laugh at the arguments put up by Ubers pr machine the Uber shills here and point to one simple indisputable fact.
Uber started with about 20 billion dollars and currently has about 5 billion dollars in the bank and pretty much nothing to show for it. 
An app that a smart 14 year old can copy?
A brand that can go out of fashion as easily as it came into fashion?
It's not rocket science you spend more than you earn you go broke.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

everythingsuber said:


> An app that a smart 14 year old can copy?
> .


I was with you until you gave us this line.
A 14 year old can copy? Really?

That app is the reason they are worldwide.
That app is why they have been given billions and billions of dollars and why Travis is laughing and will continue to laugh until the day he dies.
That app is great.

Business model, not so much. But they have the app that they need.


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## Hans GrUber (Apr 23, 2016)

20yearsdriving said:


> You already in Invested in Uber ... your cars equity & your irrecoverable man Hours


I'm out, baby! I'm at a fulltime gig where I get paid to write my forum posts now, and on a KEYBOARD no less! (and I was longwinded BEFORE, lol) Equity and man hours is correct, but I also CAN SAY it wasn't all for naught. As someone who is in a communication role, Uber taught me a lot about the value in letting others talk and managing different personalities. Silver lining.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Hans GrUber said:


> I get paid to write my forum posts now, .


WTF?
I'm not getting paid. And my posts are great!

Someone is walking around with a pocket full of money from my posts!


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Cableguynoe said:


> I was with you until you gave us this line.
> A 14 year old can copy? Really?
> 
> That app is the reason they are worldwide.
> ...


II with go with 12 year olds instead. 
Development of apps isn't magic anymore.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...boy-12-makes-5-apps-meets-Apple-Facebook.html


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

everythingsuber said:


> II with go with 12 year olds instead.
> Development of apps isn't magic anymore.
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...boy-12-makes-5-apps-meets-Apple-Facebook.html


lol.

So you think a 12 year old that builds a little playhouse with some wood can build a castle?

Never mind. Don't answer that. You probably do think he can.


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## ecarpio (Apr 20, 2017)

everythingsuber said:


> II with go with 12 year olds instead.
> Development of apps isn't magic anymore.
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...boy-12-makes-5-apps-meets-Apple-Facebook.html


The App has proven to be strong against hackers and jail-braking. How nice would be to hack the App to only receive LD trips, or to simulate surge when there isn't, or to just apply the old surge system to your fares..


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## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

U/L are booking and billing processors. That's all. The apps are nothing special (except for their spying and getting around regulations). They are simple booking and tracking apps. I won't say a 14 yr old could do it but maybe a small group of 14 yr olds.

Payment processing is not rocket science so nothing new there.

The only hard assets they have are whatever offices, servers and office equipment they own and their money slaughterhouse known as the SDC R&D. In total, I don't think Uber has $120B in assets or IP.

As to their SDC's and the other stuff (scooters, bikes, eats), they will be an also ran. Perhaps in a decade or two there will be a consolidation to a few SDC technologies that is relatively reliable but, IMHO, Uber will not be one of them. The Uber SDC group will get swallowed by Ford or GM or Waymo or a Chinese startup or something.

If they would dump all but the rider booking and perhaps eats, they could reduce their percentage taken from drivers and still make a decent profit. That is what I see is bad is we, as drivers, are funding their SDC R&D. In short, we are slitting our own wrists to further Uber's SDC goal (even though it is a fiasco).


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Cableguynoe said:


> lol.
> 
> So you think a 12 year old that builds a little playhouse with some wood can build a castle?
> 
> Never mind. Don't answer that. You probably do think he can.


My point is there's no shortage of apps can do the exact same thing. Uber doesn't own apps. The 14 year old reference holds up though apps are no different to building a transistor radio when I was a kid.


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## Hans GrUber (Apr 23, 2016)

everythingsuber said:


> My point is there's no shortage of apps can do the exact same thing. Uber doesn't own apps. The 14 year old reference holds up though apps are no different to building a transistor radio when I was a kid.


While your analogy is objectively bad and you should feel bad, we can agree on the base argument that 'rideshare' isn't intellectual property and anyone with the right resources would be able to replicate what Uber created on its app.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

The only improvements to Ubers profit/loss so far has been though the reduction of payment to drivers.

Uber was providing services at only roughly 74 percent of their cost in its last quarter. Uber was selling its services at only roughly 64 percent of their cost in 2017 and almost all of that improvement was though cutting drivers pay.

That is clearly the only trick Uber has. 
This also leads to driver turnover and increased costs in replacement of drivers so certainly no winning there. So Uber are still stuck selling 100 dollar notes for 75 dollars and pretending otherwise.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

Cableguynoe said:


> WTF?
> I'm not getting paid. And my posts are great!
> 
> Someone is walking around with a pocket full of money from my posts!


From Rakos


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Lets not dismiss what Uber has accomplished, they offer rides around the world, have an infrastructure and 2 apps that do work fairly well. They have 1 million morons driving for them. They have employees and infrastructure and manage to keep things going. 

What they don't have is a good path to success. I agree that they are killing their brand. Even in the ride share business they would have done well if they had emphasized prices a little lower than a cab with faster service, more reliable and cleaner. They would have easily won that way, made a decent amount and drivers would get paid but be held to a high standard. Instead they chose to compete with the bus. As they journey into self driving cars they are going into a completely different business. They do not have the experience managing that many assets, don't have the capital and no experience with fleet management. It's a completely different business with its own challenges, what makes them think they will be successful at it, it's luck i they are.


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Hans GrUber said:


> While your analogy is objectively bad and you should feel bad, we can agree on the base argument that 'rideshare' isn't intellectual property and anyone with the right resources would be able to replicate what Uber created on its app.


I thought it was a good analogy.
Put a technological problem in front of the right kid with the right tools they can solve it.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Lets not dismiss what Uber has accomplished, they offer rides around the world, have an infrastructure and 2 apps that do work fairly well. They have 1 million morons driving for them. They have employees and infrastructure and manage to keep things going.
> 
> What they don't have is a good path to success. I agree that they are killing their brand. Even in the ride share business they would have done well if they had emphasized prices a little lower than a cab with faster service, more reliable and cleaner. They would have easily won that way, made a decent amount and drivers would get paid but be held to a high standard. Instead they chose to compete with the bus. As they journey into self driving cars they are going into a completely different business. They do not have the experience managing that many assets, don't have the capital and no experience with fleet management. It's a completely different business with its own challenges, what makes them think they will be successful at it, it's luck i they are.


Uber has 3 Apps:

"Uber Freight" App, in the trucking industry
https://www.truckinginfo.com/320007/uber-freight-gives-shippers-forward-looking-rate-info












Hans GrUber said:


> In this post, I'd like to illustrate why not to invest in Uber, Uber's plan of action, and why Uber will be a punchline in the future.
> 
> First, most drivers that are on the forum have A CLUE. I think most still think they earn more than they actually do, but most also understand that we are being taken advantage of. One of the things that drivers on here love to mock Uber for is their current inability to make a profit. It's fun and it's always good to have ammo for the target, but we have to understand that this doesn't bother Uber in the slightest and I will explain why.
> 
> ...


I don't agree with your conclusions.
But I'm an uber driver and Do Not possess financial, Global banking, technology & international investing credentials,
like you. :woot:


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> Uber has 3 Apps:
> 
> "Uber Freight" App, in the trucking industry


Uber driver
Uber pax
Uber eats
Uber freight

Coming soon:
Uber medic

If prostitution is ever legalized you better believe there will be Uber girls


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Not just anyone can turn an idea into a multibillion dollar operation and than walk away from it before it crashes to the ground with his pockets full.


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## Hans GrUber (Apr 23, 2016)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> Uber has 3 Apps:
> 
> "Uber Freight" App, in the trucking industry
> https://www.truckinginfo.com/320007/uber-freight-gives-shippers-forward-looking-rate-info
> ...


It's just my opinion. Please introduce me to your point of view!


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

The word in the Uber office is they are tryin to get to the IPO before the market sell off and panic is in the room. One quote was for every 1,500 points the Dow goes down Uber will be valued $5 billion dollars lower and if the market see’s a massive sell off 6,000 points or more it could cut the IPO value in half.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

This kind of speaks for itself, uber will make up for the losses of medallion


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

Hans GrUber said:


> It's just my opinion. Please introduce me to your point of view!


Seriously, I "think" anything is possible.
There's stuff going on we are not privy to.

Only things i can comprehend:

DiDi and Uber have the same big international investors. Both are betting their futures on SDC. DIDI just opened an SDC lab in Mountain View CA.
Reports show Didi is further along than uber in SDC
DIDI has stated that the success of SDC hinges on environmental sensors in road and above communicating with the vehicle.(I concur. Oddly enough waymo is resistant)
I "think" uber and didi's big international investors are planning a merger after the IPO.

Once uber joins with DiDi it's a whole new huge trillion dollar ballgame.

Disclaimer: I'm an PT uber driver past 4 years with a BA in Psychology and MA in history.
No training in international investing or, frankly, anything money
Heck, I can't even balance my own checkbook.
SEAL Team 5 does it 4 me.


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> They have 1 million morons driving for them.


ROFFLMFAO!!!


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

vtcomics said:


> ROFFLMFAO!!!


Well, it's true and I'm one of them!


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## Pedro Paramo66 (Jan 17, 2018)

But they are helping cheap, disgusting, entitled people to save a lot of money in rides and this is a good thing
Lol



Uberfunitis said:


> Not just anyone can turn an idea into a multibillion dollar operation and than walk away from it before it crashes to the ground with his pockets full.


Travis did it


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## GreenSubaru (Oct 31, 2018)

I've had about a litre of vodka, but you sir are foolish to think Uber doesn't stand to profit immensely from this. Like Google, they are gatekeepers of information. Anyone who would've shorted Uber would've shorted Facebook long ago and lost their shirt.


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

Pedro Paramo66 said:


> But they are helping cheap, disgusting, entitled people to save a lot of money in rides and this is a good thing
> Lol
> 
> Travis did it


Judging from your comments you don't chauffeur ubers clients.
You're a man true to his words and convictions.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> WTF?
> I'm not getting paid. And my posts are great!
> 
> Someone is walking around with a pocket full of money from my posts!


Yea, they're ok.
Not great.

Write a novel ... ala Stephen King or John Grisham, THEN we can talk great.


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## MikeNY (May 6, 2016)

Hans GrUber
Everything you said is spot on.

Uber invests all their money into Autonomous vehicles which clearly is a losing proposition.

Based on all the problems and accidents Autonomous vehicles are going thru I'd say we have 10 years until it is permitted in most cities.

Major cities are opposing it for now for safety and the loss of jobs.

Uber should of stuck to only taking 20% of the fair with the intention of being a healthy company financially.

Instead, they decided to take 45% and invest in Autonomous vehicles which has been and will be their downfall.

They can take over the market and attempt to become the Amazon of the world but even Amazon has a competitor Walmart.

Walmart is succeeding where Amazon can't because they are learning from Amazon's mistakes and have stores in every major city that can deliver same day.

Many cities have smaller Ride Share companies who take 20% of the fair and their drivers tend to be much happier.

I think that soon enough a new app will swoope in which will stick to becoming financially stable by not investing in anything other then growing organically by charging only 20%.

It will earn them a nice financial portfolio at which they will merge or be bought out in 10 years.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> Uber driver
> 
> If prostitution is ever legalized you better believe there will be Uber girls


Now THERE is a thesis for your new novel.

"It was a dark and rainy night in Bagdad By The Bay. The Uber driver stopped for a quick smoke when the phone chirped at him. He recognized the address. It was an Uber Girl. He sighed and tossed the lit butt out the window into the street. A cop scowled at him. He started the car and put it in gear. Time to deliver the kitty to some needy tech nerd."


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

I can think of one reason to buy Uber stock. They would be required to have at least one shareholder meeting a year. At that meeting all shareholders should have an opportunity to speak. So if you own one share and can attend the meeting you can voice your concerns.


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> Now THERE is a thesis for your new novel.
> 
> "It was a dark and rainy night in Bagdad By The Bay. The Uber driver stopped for a quick smoke when the phone chirped at him. He recognized the address. It was an Uber Girl. He sighed and tossed the lit butt out the window into the street. A cop scowled at him. He started the car and put it in gear. Time to deliver the kitty to some needy tech nerd."


LMFAO! Can't wait for chapter 2!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Hans GrUber said:


> In this post, I'd like to illustrate why not to invest in Uber, Uber's plan of action, and why Uber will be a punchline in the future.
> 
> First, most drivers that are on the forum have A CLUE. I think most still think they earn more than they actually do, but most also understand that we are being taken advantage of. One of the things that drivers on here love to mock Uber for is their current inability to make a profit. It's fun and it's always good to have ammo for the target, but we have to understand that this doesn't bother Uber in the slightest and I will explain why.
> 
> ...


I EXPECT UBER TO BE SUBSIDISED BY THE GOVERNMENT.

AFTER THEY DESTROY " PUBLIC TRANSIT ".

You will pay for Uber regardless if you use it or not.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> I EXPECT UBER TO BE SUBSIDISED BY THE GOVERNMENT.
> 
> AFTER THEY DESTROY " PUBLIC TRANSIT ".
> 
> You will pay for Uber regardless if you use it or not.


I don't see why not in many cases would probably be cheaper than all the money spent on metros / busses


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Y


Cableguynoe said:


> lol.
> 
> So you think a 12 year old that builds a little playhouse with some wood can build a castle?
> 
> Never mind. Don't answer that. You probably do think he can.


You can 3- D print a Castle Now !


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## bettercallpaul (Dec 18, 2018)

1 billion dollars could buy EVERY cab company in the country lmao give em all the same app just saved yourself 119 billion have actual property & thousands of actual vehicles...

its bail out (too big to fail) or buy out for pennies on the dollar for this ponzi scam

if they open books theres some serious questions

1. EVERY single driver would opt out of pool if given the option, so they stopped letting drivers opt out. 100% of labor doesnt want something the "company" thinks is the future

2. Why do all the drivers whove lasted a year+ ignore 90% of requests & cancel so much?

3. How can you be possibly legal & how to you get so many idiots to drive for points, rewards, bogo starbucks coupons, stars, badges, quests, promos & why cant you still profit paying .60 a mile to labor like its 1975?

4. How are you not profitable taking 50-90% of fares, making more than the drivers who provide all the time, risk, fuel, labor, & car? When cab drivers used to get 100% of the fare with no maintenance costs, & how in the world do you think a self driving 50+K robot with all costs will be cheaper than paying apu & grandpa simpson $2-4 gross per trip like its 1971 in a less than 5K hoopty?

5. How do 96% of drivers fail if its a legal job

6. If you have to lable drivers employees how are you going to come up with the 75+ million dollars per DAY to pay legal minimum wage on 15+ million trips ($5 * 15 million) without raising rates & will half your "customers" be even willing to pay $5 more dollars per trip?

I could go on but we all know the top of this ponzi & maybe 10,000 people will cash out & everyone else will get screwbered...

I think if it does go to ipo & the crash hasnt hit yet, it might cause the next crash.



MikeNY said:


> Hans GrUber
> Everything you said is spot on.
> 
> Uber invests all their money into Autonomous vehicles which clearly is a losing proposition.
> ...


finders fees are 10%
all they need to do is charge a connection fee & profit $1-5 on 15+ million trips per day & stay out the way

if theyre a "tech" company they should have no business with miles,minutes or anything else

but they want to rule the workd with flying cars to mars via hyper loop, & self driving robots powered by the block chain with machine learing & ai algorhtums that know better

still think it could be the greatest jobs program ever though

labor department, government shut them down & seize their assets or buy em with an offer they cant refuse & turn it into the greatest jobs program on the planet.

charge $10-15 per ride
driver gets minimum $10
$1.50 per mile .30 per minute
1990 RATES from 30 years ago btw
double rates holidays
.20+ per mile 10pm-6am

profit $1-5 on each one

anyone over 21 with a car & no violent or driving issues on background has a job serving their community

and bonus for government backdoor to all that lovely data about their citizens coming & goings plus way less risk since the man behind the app(90% of 3rd shift prostitutes, junkies, drunk going to get drunk & most banned riders just resign up under anonymous accounts) cabs have partitions for a reason & its not to protect riders lmao

and acceptance rates 90+% hardly any cancels, everybody wins but this is amerikkka only the truly evil get to the top


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

bettercallpaul said:


> 1 billion dollars could buy EVERY cab company in the country lmao give em all the same app just saved yourself 119 billion have actual property & thousands of actual vehicles...
> 
> its bail out (too big to fail) or buy out for pennies on the dollar for this ponzi scam
> 
> ...


Whoa another candidate for Post of the Year


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ys-lower-values-after-stock-rout?srnd=premium

Just the facts Jack!


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

vtcomics said:


> LMFAO! Can't wait for chapter 2!


He pulled up in front of the hotel. The UberGirl was waiting at the curb. She had her trade dress in plain view - as required by law. She saw him and nodded as she got in the back seat. She flashed a bright smile in the mirror and said, "Hi Cable. How's your night going?" 
The driver, Cable, was in a strange mood. "Meh. Same old chit. Self important nerds that make six figures and won't tip me a buck for sitting in traffic ...." He rolled the window up and wiped snot up his long sleeve shirt, "In a little bit the pukers come out, that's when the fun starts."
SadUber grinned and said, "Yea. Well, what they do to your upholstery is nothing compared to what they do to mine. And, they don't tip me either." 
Not to be outdone, Cable muttered "Your upholstery heals. Mine needs to be repaired."

Cable stabbed at the ap starting the trip. SadUber tapped her ap letting her pax know that she's on the way. 
The car pulled from the curb into the cold, windy, drizzle that is normal in this city on a summer evening.


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> He rolled the window up and wiped snot up his long sleeve shirt


LMAO! Classic!


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## siberia (Dec 20, 2018)

I am actually pissed NASA is working with these bags of crap along with the NSA. Had a realtive who did work for NASA. Uber sucks and should not be working with NASA. I assume Uber is some crooked backwards agency.


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## HighRollinG (Aug 13, 2017)

Hello UP


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## YouBeer (May 10, 2017)

Hans GrUber said:


> I'm out, baby! I'm at a fulltime gig where I get paid to write my forum posts now, and on a KEYBOARD no less! (and I was longwinded BEFORE, lol) Equity and man hours is correct, but I also CAN SAY it wasn't all for naught. As someone who is in a communication role, Uber taught me a lot about the value in letting others talk and managing different personalities. Silver lining.


Thats a world of difference between us I guess.
I dont want to communicate with stingy entitled bastards of which I learned there are *a lot* of.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

Uber’s forte is raising venture capital. Then they throw a bunch of shit against the wall and see what sticks. Data collection has stuck best and the free use of drivers’ car equity ranks high.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

everythingsuber said:


> Eats still losing money.


No way is Eats losing money, not with the combination of high delivery fees, low driver pay, and an average restaurant commission of 30%.

Eats is a big money-maker for uber.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> Seriously, I "think" anything is possible.
> There's stuff going on we are not privy to.
> 
> Only things i can comprehend:
> ...


Good points....
My only real question...
History?
Why?


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## UberLyftFlexWhatever (Nov 23, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> Good points....
> My only real question...
> History?
> Why?


I'm an uber driver. Hans GrUber is the international banker with global commercial financial background.
He's your man.


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

UberLyftFlexWhatever said:


> "Uber Freight" App, in the trucking industry
> https://www.truckinginfo.com/320007/uber-freight-gives-shippers-forward-looking-rate-info
> 
> 
> ...


Now even independent truckers are getting screwed over by Uber. When will this end?


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## El Janitor (Feb 22, 2016)

Self driving cars are coming, reliable or not. Do you want the red pill or the blue pill?
Just remember with knowing the truth all you get is the truth, it doesn't mean it changes anything it just makes you more aware. Which one do you want?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

1.5xorbust said:


> Uber's forte is raising venture capital. Then they throw a bunch of shit against the wall and see what sticks. Data collection has stuck best and the free use of drivers' car equity ranks high.


* " FLYING CARS "! *


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

You pay your money and you take your chances.

None can see the future.

"Blue chip" firms have largely faded into history. Who ever expected to see the likes of Kodak, Xerox, Polaroid, and Sears to either?

Many of these firms completely blew the opportunities of this new internet world. Who better to exploit internet shopping than Sears, with its massive catalog operation? Who better to exploit digital photography and printing than Xerox?

For every Amazon are countless failed ventures. Even Amazon bled money for a decade. FedEx failed in its first incarnation.

While ride-share is here to stay, there's no guarantee Uber will persist. After all, Charles Goodyear had a great idea, yet never sold a tire.

Readers of Mark Twain's "Roughing It" knows too well the sundry stock hustles that can happen. (Marijuana futures, anyone?)

Personally, I'd buy into Uber if I could.


----------



## siberia (Dec 20, 2018)

I would never buy one share of Uber. I would short it though SNAP style. Loads of money to be made shorting Uber stock when it IPOS. I can guarantee the insiders / stock options holders are going to dump every last dollar they have of it the minute they can.


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> Uber driver
> Uber pax
> Uber eats
> Uber freight
> ...


Uber is legalized in China, but they have to bail. Seem can't see uber farmed chicken in Nevada yet? and about the uber app(s), just remind us the pending trial of uber driver in news.

*Kalamazoo driver blamed Uber app for shooting rampage*


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Gambling in Stock Market is Tax Write Off.

Gambling in Casino is Not .


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> No way is Eats losing money, not with the combination of high delivery fees, low driver pay, and an average restaurant commission of 30%.
> 
> Eats is a big money-maker for uber.


Pretty sure Eats is losing money.

"There's no way you could imagine Eats is losing money" is what you should have said.
Low drivers pay and upwards of 30% of restaurant commission. Still not making money?
If you have figures that show Eats is making money that would be great reading. Uber has no platforms that make money.


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## Gulfstream Echo Niner (Dec 24, 2018)

everythingsuber said:


> Pretty sure Eats is losing money.
> 
> "There's no way you could imagine Eats is losing money" is what you should have said.
> Low drivers pay and upwards of 30% of restaurant commission. Still not making money?
> If you have figures that show Eats is making money that would be great reading. Uber has no platforms that make money.


If u have figures that Eats is losing money that would be great reading.
You positions are baseless emotional opinions. U "hate" uber too much to offer realistic observations.

please help yourself to coffee & cake ompous:


----------



## Danny3xd (Nov 7, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> WTF?
> I'm not getting paid. And my posts are great!
> 
> Someone is walking around with a pocket full of money from my posts!


 (_Your checks in the mail Buddy. shhh)_


----------



## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

Gulfstream Echo Niner said:


> If u have figures that Eats is losing money that would be great reading.
> You positions are baseless emotional opinions. U "hate" uber too much to offer realistic observations.
> 
> please help yourself to coffee & cake ompous:


We shall see see once the prospectus comes out. Dara would be dancing in the street if anything Uber was making a profit.
There's nothing baseless about Ubers losses or safety record. Nor its attitude towards its employees. Uber is not a nice company and it doesn't make money.


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Hans GrUber said:


> In this post, I'd like to illustrate why not to invest in Uber, Uber's plan of action, and why Uber will be a punchline in the future.
> 
> .


The positive point for Uber is that they "ubering" has a huge sector or the ride sharing market and is considering synonymous with the process.

Further, even though plenty of other self-driving cars are being worked on, getting the people to order them could be a problem if they are first. If another outfit does it first, they may be looking toward business alliance with uber.


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## OPTIONCB (Feb 20, 2017)

Hans GrUber said:


> In this post, I'd like to illustrate why not to invest in Uber, Uber's plan of action, and why Uber will be a punchline in the future.
> 
> First, most drivers that are on the forum have A CLUE. I think most still think they earn more than they actually do, but most also understand that we are being taken advantage of. One of the things that drivers on here love to mock Uber for is their current inability to make a profit. It's fun and it's always good to have ammo for the target, but we have to understand that this doesn't bother Uber in the slightest and I will explain why.
> 
> ...


Good analysis... being a 'white collar' business professional and being in finance , the one who succeeds will be the one who can answer the question of 'What's your most valuable asset?' correctly. If either of them say 'the technology of the app' or 'self driving autonomous technology' they are done. if they reply 'our drivers' and can actually support and make changes to the driver experience and pay, then they can make it. However with the latest pay cuts I don't see it happening. If I were Lyft, I would raise rates slightly and feed the drivers the difference. this whole process can be won or lost by customer and driver loyalty.



Uberfunitis said:


> Not just anyone can turn an idea into a multibillion dollar operation and than walk away from it before it crashes to the ground with his pockets full.


enron comes to mind. lol.


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## Danny3xd (Nov 7, 2016)

I think it's often missed that uber makes a lot of money and is not in fact operating at a loss. Rather heavily invested and divested.
A very complicated version of my Prius not costing .54 cents a mile to drive a mile.



I_Like_Spam said:


> The positive point for Uber is that they "ubering" has a huge sector or the ride sharing market and is considering synonymous with the process.
> 
> Further, even though plenty of other self-driving cars are being worked on, getting the people to order them could be a problem if they are first. If another outfit does it first, they may be looking toward business alliance with uber.


I believe you make a very important and good point ILSpam.

Given the opertuinity and especially given the present state of affairs, I would invest heavily in uber as a stock.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

mikes424 said:


> I can think of one reason to buy Uber stock. They would be required to have at least one shareholder meeting a year. At that meeting all shareholders should have an opportunity to speak. So if you own one share and can attend the meeting you can voice your concerns.


 You also have the ability to vote on issues via proxy if you can't make the meeting.



Karen Stein said:


> You pay your money and you take your chances.
> 
> None can see the future.
> 
> "Blue chip" firms have largely faded into history. Who ever expected to see the likes of Kodak, Xerox, Polaroid, and Sears to either?


Disagree on saying blue chips are obsolete.
Coca-Cola, Disney, PepsiCo, Wal-Mart, ExxonMobil, JP Morgan Chase, IBM, Johnson + Johnson, and McDonald's are doin' just fine as prominently huge corporations with blue chip status. Apple became a blue chip in 2015.


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## Deadmans Cuddles (Dec 27, 2018)

Yam Digger said:


> Now even independent truckers are getting screwed over by Uber. When will this end?


That is because freight is REAL transportation. Trucking, shipping, rail, air cargo, Uber will never be able to touch these, and thank God for that, people would be starving in major American cities if they did. Rideshare is just a gimmick gig to raise money for AI cars to replace taxis. That is the only reason Uber and Lyft ever got successful. If it wasn't for the potential to replace taxis with robocars, Uber would be some small app few would have heard of. Uber is mostly tech geeks, they are clueless about how transportation and shipping and freight works. One look at the pathetic thing they call a "waybill" is a dead giveaway they have no idea what they are doing.


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## zombieguy (May 22, 2015)

Everything that I am reading reminds me of the Wrestling chatrooms on AOL in the late 90s. For those wrestling fans that remember the Monday Night wrestling wars can remember a time when the then WWF now the WWE and rival WCW would go head to head with their wrestling shows every Monday Night. WCW owned by Ted Turner was taking all the talent from the WWF and grossly overpaying them to take them away from Vince McMahon. Ted Turner was hell bent on destroying McMahon. WCW consistently beat the WWF in the ratings for over a year. Bret Hart was the WWF champ at the time and had just signed a 20 year deal to stay with the WWF. With all the losses the WWF was taking, McMahon told Bret he couldn't pay him his contract because the WWF was losing money and tv ratings and was going to breach their contract so Bret should go and take the deal he was offered with WCW. McMahon afraid that his champ was going to go to the rival and show up on their tv show with the WWF belt then orchestrated what is known as "The Montreal Screw Job" where McMahon screwed over Bret Hart in the championship match. Its either the greatest wrestling work in the history of pro wrestling since there was a documentary crew following Bret Hart around at the time and Bret was worried he was about to get screwed or it shows how shrewd a businessman McMahon was and is. Anyway, everyone in the wrestling chatrooms were talking about how the WWF is over, WCW is everything, Vince will be broke in a year, the WWF will be bankrupt, Vince will be working for WCW etc. etc.. Fast forward 4 years later and Vince McMahon buys WCW. Fast forward to present day and WWE is a publicly traded company worth around 5billion. McMahon himself is worth 1.5 billion. The point is, the average person or in this case the average Uber driver on this forum doesn't know jack about what they are talking about when it comes to the inner workings of a multibillion dollar company like Uber which is why they are just the average person, just a driver and not the CEO of a multibillion dollar company.


----------



## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Hans GrUber said:


> In this post, I'd like to illustrate why not to invest in Uber, Uber's plan of action, and why Uber will be a punchline in the future.
> 
> First, most drivers that are on the forum have A CLUE. I think most still think they earn more than they actually do, but most also understand that we are being taken advantage of. One of the things that drivers on here love to mock Uber for is their current inability to make a profit. It's fun and it's always good to have ammo for the target, but we have to understand that this doesn't bother Uber in the slightest and I will explain why.
> 
> ...


"The end goal for Uber now is to fully (or at least primarily) have a fleet of autonomous vehicles while being the go-to for on demand transport in the future."

That is not Uber's end-goal. They know this is basically impossible. They SAY it's the end goal because it appeases the investors but anyone smarter than a 5th grader knows it pretty much cannot be done.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> "The end goal for Uber now is to fully (or at least primarily) have a fleet of autonomous vehicles while being the go-to for on demand transport in the future."
> 
> That is not Uber's end-goal. They know this is basically impossible. They SAY it's the end goal because it appeases the investors but anyone smarter than a 5th grader knows it pretty much cannot be done.


There are many people who not only think it can be done but it will be done.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> There are many people who not only think it can be done but it will be done.


True. And those people fall into two distinct categories:

1. People who say it even if they don't believe it because they will benefit from it getting out there.

2. People not smarter than 5th graders


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> True. And those people fall into two distinct categories:
> 
> 1. People who say it even if they don't believe it because they will benefit from it getting out there.
> 
> 2. People not smarter than 5th graders


Or visionaries who will make it happen!


----------



## luckytown (Feb 11, 2016)

Pedro Paramo66 said:


> But they are helping cheap, disgusting, entitled people to save a lot of money in rides and this is a good thing
> Lol
> 
> Travis did it


They are not saving money.....they are just using thier bus fare on Uber instead......all the money is going into a big bet on an IPO......where early investors and executive management will get a big payoff and quickly bail....


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

luckytown said:


> They are not saving money.....they are just using thier bus fare on Uber instead......all the money is going into a big bet on an IPO......where early investors and executive management will get a big payoff and quickly bail....


When an iPO is offered, the prospectus tells you what they plan to do with the money raised. What you are saying "could" happen I guess, but usually the early investors don't completely "bail" on the company.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> When an iPO is offered, the prospectus tells you what they plan to do with the money raised. What you are saying "could" happen I guess, but usually the early investors don't completely "bail" on the company.


Usually even locked in for a period of time.


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## x100 (Dec 7, 2015)

20yearsdriving said:


> You already in Invested in Uber ... your cars equity & your irrecoverable man Hours


them and few other shitty employers/organizations in the past..


----------



## luckytown (Feb 11, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Usually even locked in for a period of time.


They will manipulate the numbers until the "period of time" expires and then they will make thier move...Hell there are people who still buy Sears stock


----------



## x100 (Dec 7, 2015)

everythingsuber said:


> My point is there's no shortage of apps can do the exact same thing. Uber doesn't own apps. The 14 year old reference holds up though apps are no different to building a transistor radio when I was a kid.


YOu point is pointless, google had its own mapping app and they bought WAZE for two billions. They had google video but bought youtube for 1.x billions I believe. Duh!



Mole said:


> The word in the Uber office is they are tryin to get to the IPO before the market sell off and panic is in the room. One quote was for every 1,500 points the Dow goes down Uber will be valued $5 billion dollars lower and if the market see's a massive sell off 6,000 points or more it could cut the IPO value in half.


market makers will always make or stabilize/remake the market so their IPO gets out and thrives.


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## Ian Hobbs (Sep 19, 2018)

Cableguynoe said:


> Uber driver
> Uber pax
> Uber eats
> Uber freight
> ...


Uber Escort...i like it!!!


----------



## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

luckytown said:


> They will manipulate the numbers until the "period of time" expires and then they will make thier move...Hell there are people who still buy Sears stock


Sure, Sears stock is still being bought and sold- at 17 cents a share. My guess is Sears will probably rise in price a bit over the next couple of days as people seek to buy it to close out their short positions before the end of the year and others look to sell to claim their tax deduction for 2018.

But security trading is very heavily regulated and the banks who finance IPO's want to stay out of adverse actions with the SEC. Uber, when offered as an IPO, will be a very high profile offering. They and the banks doing this will be probably be very careful.

Neither the banks, brokerages nor the SEC are doofuses, even if some of the retail investors are babes in the woods.


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## Hans GrUber (Apr 23, 2016)

There are plenty of very smart people who think it WILL happen. It’s not for me to decide if self driving vehicles become a reality, nor does it matter. Either it DOES and Uber loses to a rival, or it doesn’t and Uber has to scale back operations on a grand scale to be profitable.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Hans GrUber said:


> Either it DOES and Uber loses to a rival, or it doesn't and Uber has to scale back operations on a grand scale to be profitable.


Or it DOES and Uber and its investors make a ton of money and become the next Amazon for transportation.


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## luckytown (Feb 11, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Sure, Sears stock is still being bought and sold- at 17 cents a share. My guess is Sears will probably rise in price a bit over the next couple of days as people seek to buy it to close out their short positions before the end of the year and others look to sell to claim their tax deduction for 2018.
> 
> But security trading is very heavily regulated and the banks who finance IPO's want to stay out of adverse actions with the SEC. Uber, when offered as an IPO, will be a very high profile offering. They and the banks doing this will be probably be very careful.
> 
> Neither the banks, brokerages nor the SEC are doofuses, even if some of the retail investors are babes in the woods.


Sure....If you live in a world of ethics and responsibility......but we live in a much different world where rating agencies rate MBS triple AAA when they are crap......and SEC and watchdogs let Banks almost bankrupt us in 2009....your faith is admirable...


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> Or visionaries who will make it happen!


If you think this is going to happen you are not smarter than a 5th grader.

Why won't it happen? Short answer: way too many variables


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> If you think this is going to happen you are not smarter than a 5th grader.
> 
> Why won't it happen? Short answer: way too many variables


We always have many people who say and believe that something can not be done until it is done this is no exception.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Hans GrUber said:


> There are plenty of very smart people who think it WILL happen. It's not for me to decide if self driving vehicles become a reality, nor does it matter. Either it DOES and Uber loses to a rival, or it doesn't and Uber has to scale back operations on a grand scale to be profitable.


There are no smart people who think it will happen. You only think they're smart



Uberfunitis said:


> We always have many people who say and believe that something can not be done until it is done this is no exception.


It's easy for you to say that because even if it could happen by the time it happens it will be 30+ years from now and we will all be long gone by then


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> There are no smart people who think it will happen. You only think they're smart
> 
> It's easy for you to say that because even if it could happen by the time it happens it will be 30+ years from now and we will all be long gone by then


We will see!


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> It's easy for you to say that because even if it could happen by the time it happens it will be 30+ years from now and we will all be long gone by then


I have every intention to still be here in 30 years


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> We will see!


You got a deadline you can give me?

I mean, since you're so sure these people are "visionaries" tell me when we can see a major breakthrough in robo taxis.

For example: Waymo is just kinda slowly getting off the ground in Phoenix.

On what date will robo taxis put Uber out of business in Phoenix in your estimation? My estimation? Never

You?

( I'll wait)



Cableguynoe said:


> I have every intention to still be here in 30 years


LOL I don't mean on earth I meant on UP


----------



## Hans GrUber (Apr 23, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> There are no smart people who think it will happen. You only think they're smart
> 
> It's easy for you to say that because even if it could happen by the time it happens it will be 30+ years from now and we will all be long gone by then


Have you seen how few human required corrections were necessary in the self driving car? I once thought it was a pipe dream. Ironically, it wasn't until the Uber killed that drifter that I started changing my mind. The stats were mind blowing, in terms of just how well they were operating.

I also think there are a lot of objectively smart people who think SDV will become a reality.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> You got a deadline you can give me?
> 
> I mean, since you're so sure these people are "visionaries" tell me when we can see a major breakthrough in robo taxis.
> 
> ...


My guess would be that we will start seeing real growth and adaptation of SDC in the later parts of 2020


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Uberfunitis said:


> My guess would be that we will start seeing real growth and adaptation of SDC in the later parts of 2020


So about 2 years from now? Ok I'll check back in.

My bet is even 2 years from now no real change in the SDC space will happen

By the way, there was this one pro robot guy here on UP went by the name of Tomatopaste.

He was a real jerk


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> So about 2 years from now? Ok I'll check back in.
> 
> My bet is even 2 years from now no real change in the SDC space will happen
> 
> ...


Sounds good, there are many jerks on this forum. I am sure that there is hardly anyone on this forum that someone does not think is a jerk about one topic or another.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Uberfunitis said:


> Sounds good, there are many jerks on this forum. I am sure that there is hardly anyone on this forum that someone does not think is a jerk about one topic or another.


You called?


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## Jumpin Jim (Mar 4, 2018)

Personally I believe Uber is in serious trouble, caught between a rock and a hard place. The "irrational exuberance" they've created around AV's is not coming to fruition in relation to the IPO timing. I believe some very intelligent business analysts, hired to look at the company financials are asking "Where's the 120 billion value??" Drastically cutting driver pay to the bone and partnering with a scooter rental company are desperate measures to demonstrate revenue growth. Seriously, I mean how high tech and profitable can scooter rentals be? What's left to squeeze more revenue out for the 1st quarter 2019? IMHO I believe the IPO will be delayed. Maybe delayed indefinitely. Wouldn't be surprised if a new CEO is put into place in 2019. Also wouldn't be surprised if there was a management scramble to the nearest exit in 2019/2020.


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## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

Hans GrUber said:


> In this post, I'd like to illustrate why not to invest in Uber, Uber's plan of action, and why Uber will be a punchline in the future.


I have summarized your point-of-view as the following - If Uber is trustworthy, pigs can fly .


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

There are points of caution about Uber. They have to deal with thousands of different governments and agencies that seek to regulate not just transportation but also employment contracts. Just to figure out your taxes has to be a real pain in the keister. Uber also depends on legions of partners who have different goals than the corporation does, and who goals conflict.


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

Uberfunitis said:


> Sounds good, there are many jerks on this forum. I am sure that there is hardly anyone on this forum that someone does not think is a jerk about one topic or another.


I have no doubt that self driving vehicles will eventually become a way of life, but I also believe it's farther in the future than most realize. I do have questions about the "safety" aspect; how does the technology prevent someone from rear-ending or t-boneing the vehicle??? Or a child that bolts in front of the vehicle with not enough time (even with instantaneous braking) to avoid the collision? Even though these incidents aren't the "fault" of the vehicle, the media and society will surely paint it that way, which will seriously jeopardize any progress of rolling out the concept. I wonder if the self driving vehicle will be deactivated when smug pax 1 star the ride into a less than acceptable rating.


----------



## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

vtcomics said:


> I have no doubt that self driving vehicles will eventually become a way of life, but I also believe it's farther in the future than most realize. I do have questions about the "safety" aspect; how does the technology prevent someone from rear-ending or t-boneing the vehicle??? Or a child that bolts in front of the vehicle with not enough time (even with instantaneous braking) to avoid the collision? Even though these incidents aren't the "fault" of the vehicle, the media and society will surely paint it that way, which will seriously jeopardize any progress of rolling out the concept. I wonder if the self driving vehicle will be deactivated when smug pax 1 star the ride into a less than acceptable rating.


What happens when you as a driver are rear ended or t boned I would imagine much the same thing. It is usually not all that advisable to take evasive maneuvers as it often makes the situation much worse.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

vtcomics said:


> I have no doubt that self driving vehicles will eventually become a way of life, but I also believe it's farther in the future than most realize. I do have questions about the "safety" aspect; how does the technology prevent someone from rear-ending or t-boneing the vehicle??? Or a child that bolts in front of the vehicle with not enough time (even with instantaneous braking) to avoid the collision? Even though these incidents aren't the "fault" of the vehicle, the media and society will surely paint it that way, which will seriously jeopardize any progress of rolling out the concept. I wonder if the self driving vehicle will be deactivated when smug pax 1 star the ride into a less than acceptable rating.


It is exactly these questions that make me believe it will never happen

But if it does, many decades away for sure


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

I will not invest in F*ub*a*r* or Gr*yft*. The IPO is so that the original investors can take their profits and bail. The thing will crash, the new stockholders will be left standing in their underwear clutching their collective crotch.

This will not, however, mean the end of the TNCs. When either of the big two crash, five companies will be in business within one week in an attempt to replace them. TNC-ing is not going away. It will simply take a different form.


----------



## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I will not invest in F*ub*a*r* or Gr*yft*. The IPO is so that the original investors can take their profits and bail. The thing will crash, the new stockholders will be left standing in their underwear clutching their collective crotch.
> 
> This will not, however, mean the end of the TNCs. When either of the big two crash, five companies will be in business within one week in an attempt to replace them. TNC-ing is not going away. It will simply take a different form.


You are so correct.

But here's the part I don't get- if the people who issue and then subsequently invest in an IPO are supposed to be smart, how come they don't know this?


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> if the people who issue and then subsequently invest in an IPO are supposed to be smart, how come they don't know this?


They will believe the rosy picture that the prospectus paints because they want to believe it. It is not much different from the girl who chases the no good boy. She wants to believe that he is good, so she will not believe the overwhelming evidence that he is no good.


----------



## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> They will believe the rosy picture that the prospectus paints because they want to believe it. It is not much different from the girl who chases the no good boy. She wants to believe that he is good, so she will not believe the overwhelming evidence that he is no good.


Sad


----------



## Jumpin Jim (Mar 4, 2018)

iheartuber said:


> You are so correct.
> 
> But here's the part I don't get- if the people who issue and then subsequently invest in an IPO are supposed to be smart, how come they don't know this?


That's a really good question. The underwriters for the IPO (Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley) are intelligent financial folks that understand how to make money. A side note is that both companies repeatedly get fined for various misrepresentations and illegal activities almost every year. Goldman certainly did their share in creating the financial housing bubble in 2008, then profited by shorting it, then got government bailout money for it. Beautiful. But they know how to make money. Whether or not the IPO is a good long term investment is a non-issue to them. Their main question - can we underwrite the IPO, quickly sell the shares during the big hype, and exit with a tidy profit? They really could care less what happens to the share price after that. To be blunt, they don't GAF who's holding the bag after them. Next are institutional investors such as mutual fund/hedge fund managers. These guys HAVE to do their homework before investing. Their creds are on the line. Uber is going to have to PROVE to these guys they have the financials to back up the target share price. Personally I'm betting the financials are NOT there. This will result in IPO delays, internal friction, and possibly unraveling with Uber management/directors/investors. In fact I think this already started before Travis left. Maybe he left a lot of money on the table, but maybe he will actually come out to be one of the clear winners after all is said and done.


----------



## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

everythingsuber said:


> My point is there's no shortage of apps can do the exact same thing. Uber doesn't own apps. The 14 year old reference holds up though apps are no different to building a transistor radio when I was a kid.


In "America" not down under, people do not rely on tech to sell them, they rely on product names and what is trendy (think American's do not know it only costs 4 bucks to make 200 dollar Nike's?), just like all of your posts, you think like an Aussie and waste your time trying to understand how America works. Get a hobby dude lol

we CAN touch base on how you tried to explain how other apps would work (in theory) in Austin, it did happen (tech wise) if you want to go there in discussion (I watched 8 come and go, trying to do the right thing) but that would just be a repeated post and regurgitated info and a waste of hard drive space. Just think, I am local seeing this simple plan you claim, you are across an ocean talking smack lol


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Jay Dean said:


> In "America" not down under, people do not rely on tech to sell them, they rely on product names and what is trendy (think American's do not know it only costs 4 bucks to make 200 dollar Nike's?), just like all of your posts, you think like an Aussie and waste your time trying to understand how America works. Get a hobby dude lol


Especially when AMERICA doesn't know how America works.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> Especially when AMERICA doesn't know how America works.


You gd right!


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Jumpin Jim said:


> That's a really good question. The underwriters for the IPO (Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley) are intelligent financial folks that understand how to make money. A side note is that both companies repeatedly get fined for various misrepresentations and illegal activities almost every year. Goldman certainly did their share in creating the financial housing bubble in 2008, then profited by shorting it, then got government bailout money for it. Beautiful. But they know how to make money. Whether or not the IPO is a good long term investment is a non-issue to them. Their main question - can we underwrite the IPO, quickly sell the shares during the big hype, and exit with a tidy profit? They really could care less what happens to the share price after that. To be blunt, they don't GAF who's holding the bag after them. Next are institutional investors such as mutual fund/hedge fund managers. These guys HAVE to do their homework before investing. Their creds are on the line. Uber is going to have to PROVE to these guys they have the financials to back up the target share price. Personally I'm betting the financials are NOT there. This will result in IPO delays, internal friction, and possibly unraveling with Uber management/directors/investors. In fact I think this already started before Travis left. Maybe he left a lot of money on the table, but maybe he will actually come out to be one of the clear winners after all is said and done.


So bottom line- assuming an Uber IPO happens- the only people buying the stock will be suckers, basically?


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## Jumpin Jim (Mar 4, 2018)

iheartuber said:


> So bottom line- assuming an Uber IPO happens- the only people buying the stock will be suckers, basically?


Yep.


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

Jumpin Jim said:


> That's a really good question. The underwriters for the IPO (Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley) are intelligent financial folks that understand how to make money. A side note is that both companies repeatedly get fined for various misrepresentations and illegal activities almost every year. Goldman certainly did their share in creating the financial housing bubble in 2008, then profited by shorting it, then got government bailout money for it. Beautiful. But they know how to make money. Whether or not the IPO is a good long term investment is a non-issue to them. Their main question - can we underwrite the IPO, quickly sell the shares during the big hype, and exit with a tidy profit? They really could care less what happens to the share price after that. To be blunt, they don't GAF who's holding the bag after them. Next are institutional investors such as mutual fund/hedge fund managers. These guys HAVE to do their homework before investing. Their creds are on the line. Uber is going to have to PROVE to these guys they have the financials to back up the target share price. Personally I'm betting the financials are NOT there. This will result in IPO delays, internal friction, and possibly unraveling with Uber management/directors/investors. In fact I think this already started before Travis left. Maybe he left a lot of money on the table, but maybe he will actually come out to be one of the clear winners after all is said and done.


Goldman will probably be shorting the piss out of the stock while simultaneously pumping. Goldman is the epitome of financial terrorism. They would prostitute their own family if it was profitable.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

iheartuber said:


> if the people who issue and then subsequently invest in an IPO are supposed to be smart, how come they don't know this?


Because the original owners usually keep some equity in the business after the IPO is completed.

Things will be different after the IPO, but not necessarily a catastrophe. However, I expect the focus on costs to become more urgent. That just means the annual pay cut for drivers will be more frequent.

Eventually, most of the drivers will be immigrants who are driving beaters, plus a handful of retirees like me.


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

[QUOTE="Christinebitg, post: 4607011, member: 153424"

Eventually, most of the drivers will be immigrants who are driving beaters, plus a handful of retirees like me.[/QUOTE]

LMAO


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Drivers burn hours & depreciation on their vehicles and gives the proceeds to Uber, who then takes all that driver sweat-equity and dumps it into their research & development. Will Uber corner the market on autonomous vehicles?....probably not, but all those patents they’ve racked up on the backs of their drivers are worth a fortune.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

You don't invest in UBER...........you trade UBER stocks.........this is not a company worth investing in.........but it will be a very volatile stock play worth trading in and out of.


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## baloneytastessogood (Jan 2, 2019)

Hans GrUber said:


> In this post, I'd like to illustrate why not to invest in Uber, Uber's plan of action, and why Uber will be a punchline in the future.
> 
> First, most drivers that are on the forum have A CLUE. I think most still think they earn more than they actually do, but most also understand that we are being taken advantage of. One of the things that drivers on here love to mock Uber for is their current inability to make a profit. It's fun and it's always good to have ammo for the target, but we have to understand that this doesn't bother Uber in the slightest and I will explain why.
> 
> ...


Corporations ordinarily hide profit unless there is a special reason, like applying for IPO. Uber and Lyft will both show profit.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Rhetoric aside ...

How does one get in on an IPO?


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## SOLA-RAH (Dec 31, 2014)

Karen Stein said:


> Rhetoric aside ...
> 
> How does one get in on an IPO?


Deposit your cash and then take your chances buying shares once they're publicly offered via a brokerage account thru Merrill Edge, E-Trade, TD Ameritrade, Fidelity, Charles Schwab, Vanguard, Interactive Brokers, Robinhood, etc, etc, etc.


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## Jumpin Jim (Mar 4, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> Rhetoric aside ...
> 
> How does one get in on an IPO?


Most high profile IPO's (I would consider Uber to be high profile), the majority of the shares are sold to institutional investors (make multimillion dollar purchases), with a very small portion (if any) initially offered to individual investors (you and I). The best chance to get initial shares would be to open a brokerage account with one of the companies underwriting the IPO, which in this case is rumored to be Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley. These guys are not exactly discount brokers so you are going to pay a lot more for the transaction fees than you would TD Ameritrade or Merrill, etc. During the opening day where the stock demand is typically high and the price is run up, investors will take some profits, and shares will start selling on the open market. At this point shares will be available, but you've missed the opening run up and may over pay. At this point you've kind of missed the IPO. It's a gamble but good luck.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> How does one get in on an IPO?


My bank allows me 500 free trades per year through the brokerage firm. See what your bank offers.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

So I get a hold of a broker. Thanks.

Maybe use the broker handling the IPO? Good idea.

My bank? I had not thought of that. I'll look into it.


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## Jumpin Jim (Mar 4, 2018)

Uber's Guber said:


> My bank allows me 500 free trades per year through the brokerage firm. See what your bank offers.


I'd be interesting in knowing if your bank specifically has access to IPO's on the first day of trading. Not the day after. The first day. Would you ask and let us know?


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> So I get a hold of a broker. Thanks. Maybe use the broker handling the IPO? Good idea. My bank? I had not thought of that. I'll look into it.


My bank has a brokerage firm with a sophisticated website I log into to do my own comprehensive research so I can decide who what when. You may want to rely one of the stock advisor to assist you, somebody who eats breaths & lives this stuff full time. I don't give stock advice; I've picked some real winners but I've picked some losers too! I get 500 free trades a year which is more than enough for my dabbling.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

The other thing you can do is to wait until the IPO has taken place, and then just the stock like you would the stock of any other publicly traded company.

You might miss a bump in the stock price that happens initially, but sometimes that doesn't happen.


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## c32amg (Sep 7, 2015)

Hans GrUber said:


> In this post, I'd like to illustrate why not to invest in Uber, Uber's plan of action, and why Uber will be a punchline in the future.
> 
> First, most drivers that are on the forum have A CLUE. I think most still think they earn more than they actually do, but most also understand that we are being taken advantage of. One of the things that drivers on here love to mock Uber for is their current inability to make a profit. It's fun and it's always good to have ammo for the target, but we have to understand that this doesn't bother Uber in the slightest and I will explain why.
> 
> ...


I think those who complain are the ones not properly managing their time and expenses.


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## Uber1010 (Mar 25, 2019)

Cableguynoe said:


> Uber driver
> Uber pax
> Uber eats
> Uber freight
> ...


You just missed Uber dog walker.. correct your list please


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

c32amg said:


> I think those who complain are the ones not properly managing their time and expenses.


You are correct on this. In many locations, it would be a lot less expensive in time and expenses to work the all-night shift at 711 for extra money instead of using the family car for Uber. Uber has done a pretty good sales job convincing people to sign up, even in areas where it can never be profitable (for the partners)


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## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

I think the survey question is poorly written, so I'm not answering it. IMHO, most any business, even rideshare, can succeed in the long run, but it requires the ability to be flexible and responsive, see trends and adjust to them, and be willing to share the wealth. I don't see that happening here, so while my answer would be it's certainly possible, but not probable.


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## Taksomotor (Mar 19, 2019)

I think they will figure it out on the long run. Uber is too good of a device to fail. Everybody loves it.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Taksomotor said:


> I think they will figure it out on the long run. Uber is too good of a device to fail. Everybody loves it.


What people love about Uber is the idea of transportation at Bargain Basement rates. The problem Uber faces in the long term will be in increasing their rates and margins without reducing ridership or discouraging partners to get the growth and start actually profiting.


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

I_Like_Spam said:


> What people love about Uber is the idea of transportation at Bargain Basement rates. The problem Uber faces in the long term will be in increasing their rates and margins without reducing ridership or discouraging partners to get the growth and start actually profiting.


B I N G O....!!!


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

"If prostitution is ever legalized you better believe there will be Uber girls"

Well, I'm not going to sign up for it.

If you gave at home, you don't need to give at work.


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## Taksomotor (Mar 19, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> If you gave at home, you don't need to give at work.


Could be more rewarding at work...


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Taksomotor said:


> Could be more rewarding at work...


It could.

I had a girlfriend who did work in a "massage parlor." She made really good money.

But when her daughter hit puberty, she started denying it had ever happened. Even to the few of us who she had confided in about it before.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

I_Like_Spam said:


> What people love about Uber is the idea of transportation at Bargain Basement rates. The problem Uber faces in the long term will be in increasing their rates and margins without reducing ridership or discouraging partners to get the growth and start actually profiting.


Uber did this to themselves.

U give pax bargain basement rates for so long it gets hard to ween them off.


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

vtcomics said:


> LMFAO! Can't wait for chapter 2!


It ends up with someone getting screwed.
Everything Uber touches always does.
For accuracy of description, should Uber Girls actually be Uber Pimp?
Thhat's their trade.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> Uber did this to themselves.
> 
> U give pax bargain basement rates for so long it gets hard to ween them off.


Good point. It can be very difficult to raise prices and such a move would likely cause loss of riders to other transport providers. Especially with something like Uber, where a ride with Uber is essentially no different than a Lyft trip or any other really. There is nothing but price to differentiate them.

This NYU professor was on CNBC chatting on the LYFT and upcoming Uber IPO's. He explained he has both on his phone, and goes with whichever is cheaper. Its just like a gas war, if Exxon reduces its price, the Texaco across the street will too.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Good point. It can be very difficult to raise prices and such a move would likely cause loss of riders to other transport providers. Especially with something like Uber, where a ride with Uber is essentially no different than a Lyft trip or any other really. There is nothing but price to differentiate them.
> 
> This NYU professor was on CNBC chatting on the LYFT and upcoming Uber IPO's. He explained he has both on his phone, and goes with whichever is cheaper. Its just like a gas war, if Exxon reduces its price, the Texaco across the street will too.


Who are "other transport providers"? Lyft. That's it

Maybe the plan is to watch them go belly up



Lowestformofwit said:


> It ends up with someone getting screwed.
> Everything Uber touches always does.
> For accuracy of description, should Uber Girls actually be Uber Pimp?
> Thhat's their trade.


The Uber of prostitution app should be called Hookr


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Hans GrUber said:


> In this post, I'd like to illustrate why not to invest in Uber, Uber's plan of action, and why Uber will be a punchline in the future.
> 
> First, most drivers that are on the forum have A CLUE. I think most still think they earn more than they actually do, but most also understand that we are being taken advantage of. One of the things that drivers on here love to mock Uber for is their current inability to make a profit. It's fun and it's always good to have ammo for the target, but we have to understand that this doesn't bother Uber in the slightest and I will explain why.
> 
> ...


Uber will survive but I agree with you that it will be a bad investment at the valuation they're pushing. It may go public at a valuation of $90 to $100 billion while I say Uber is only worth $10 billion. It will be very interesting to watch the Uber IPO fireworks.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> Who are "other transport providers"? Lyft. That's it


Not true at all. Lyft is one, sure. But there are buses and vans, and people owning their own cars, and car services, taxis and limos, and new ride sharing apps in the development phase.

If I was speaking to you on the internet 8 years ago before the Uber launch, and you told me about an idea that people could use their family cars as taxi cabs in their spare time as a side hustle- I would tell you that you were crazy, people would never go for it.

I would have been wrong.

I don't know what all the future competitors in the transportation market are going to be, but there are going to be some that you might think would ever fly


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

Expecting the Uber IPO to be like every other Uber scheme and dream.
Very hard for the average person to make any decent money out of.
Amen.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Not true at all. Lyft is one, sure. But there are buses and vans, and people owning their own cars, and car services, taxis and limos, and new ride sharing apps in the development phase.
> 
> If I was speaking to you on the internet 8 years ago before the Uber launch, and you told me about an idea that people could use their family cars as taxi cabs in their spare time as a side hustle- I would tell you that you were crazy, people would never go for it.
> 
> ...


Sorry I should be more specific

If a person has a car but still needs to take a form of transportation for a particular specific situation (goto airport etc), they certainly can take any of the options you mentioned but let's be real- all of those options are way behind Uber in terms of pax preference. Way behind


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> Sorry I should be more specific
> 
> If a person has a car but still needs to take a form of transportation for a particular specific situation (goto airport etc), they certainly can take any of the options you mentioned but let's be real- all of those options are way behind Uber in terms of pax preference. Way behind


I'm sure that's true, right now in 2019 in many locations, Uber is the preferred way to go. But preferences change. Example given is my mother who usually just calls me or one of her other descendants if she needs to get to a doctor's appointment or other event instead of utilizing ride sharing apps.

Its really difficult to say what the future holds, and what new things people might come up with. I remember seeing the first ads in the Pittsburgh City Paper for Lyft drivers(Lyft came first here), I thought "no one will go for this, using their personal car as public transit". Civilization had gone on thousands of years without ride sharing apps. I was wrong, butt history isn't over- even newer ideas further off the beaten path will come by.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

I_Like_Spam said:


> I'm sure that's true, right now in 2019 in many locations, Uber is the preferred way to go. But preferences change. Example given is my mother who usually just calls me or one of her other descendants if she needs to get to a doctor's appointment or other event instead of utilizing ride sharing apps.
> 
> Its really difficult to say what the future holds, and what new things people might come up with. I remember seeing the first ads in the Pittsburgh City Paper for Lyft drivers(Lyft came first here), I thought "no one will go for this, using their personal car as public transit". Civilization had gone on thousands of years without ride sharing apps. I was wrong, butt history isn't over- even newer ideas further off the beaten path will come by.


You are correct. Presences can change and who knows what the future may bring.

But for a strong foreseeable future I don't see any changes.


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## partyrideMT (Apr 21, 2019)

CarpeNoctem said:


> U/L are booking and billing processors. That's all. The apps are nothing special...


Couldn't agree more. I want to start the driver - owned edition. This would be so easy. You get the app, the insurance, the state operating approval, and then advertise to your U/L pax. Who is ready to take a risk with me? I'll post more later but lemme know if interested.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

I actually think this makes a lot of sense. Operate it as a co-op.

Some large insurance companies are "mutuals," which is a similar concept. Thats why at the end of the year, they send you a small check for repayment of excess premium.


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## partyrideMT (Apr 21, 2019)

@Christinebitg and @Lowestformofwit I think we just need a lawyer to help us put it all together - the software is simple. The insurance requirement is the only barrier to entry that I've noticed looking into this myself.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

partyrideMT said:


> @Christinebitg and @Lowestformofwit I think we just need a lawyer to help us put it all together - the software is simple. The insurance requirement is the only barrier to entry that I've noticed looking into this myself.


Well, I think there may be a few other barriers. Like marketing the concept to drivers and to riders. Don't get me wrong, I do want to do it. But it's not going to be easy or cheap.


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

There’s an economic reason why old-time taxi owners formed themselves into local area co-ops.
Why the hell Uber didn’t set up their system to be able to sell local area franchises, and collect on-going franchise fees from them was, for some time, beyond my understanding.
Perhaps it was simply about becoming big enough to bully/bribe their way into all corners of the globe and breaking every law along their way.
I wonder if the big wheel will come full circle, and rideshare will eventually operate profitably as efficient local co-ops able to set their own reasonable prices to reflect local logistical conditions.
Or would that just be Taxi v2?


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