# Hanging up my Keys



## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

I haven't been on this site for a while nor have I been driving. Then I came across this video and I realized I haven't done a good job at tracking my expenses. After watching this video, I ran my numbers and decided driving isn't for me.





Hanging up my keys and saying goodbye for now to my friends I've met here on UP. Thanks to this forum I've gained great advice, engaged in heated debates, somehow my boobs became a topic that got featured, and overall it's been a great experience.

Moving on in my life and focusing on school and getting my 3rd degree for my 3rd career change. I'll miss you all. I wish all my friends the best especially KevRyde, MattyMikey, 5 Star Guy, Fireguy50, Slavic Riga, SEAL Team 5, wk1102, observer, uberpeople, Jimmy Bernat, Another Uber Driver, Fuzzyelvis Beur 
and I'm sure I'm missing a few.

I'll likely stop by from time to time to check in. But in all honesty not often. Uber has created such a negative environment taking advantage of good people. It's hard to read all the frustrating posts. Take care everyone! Uber On!


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## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

For the record, that video is garbage. 

But best of luck!


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

FAC said:


> I haven't been on this site for a while nor have I been driving. Then I came across this video and I realized I haven't done a good job at tracking my expenses. After watching this video, I ran my numbers and decided driving isn't for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will never forget what you did after your Broncos won their first Super Bowl. Take care and thank you for sharing. May the good Lord bless you.


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## Bobbymiami (Sep 2, 2016)

Nice, I have enjoyed your video, very informative...


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## KevRyde (Jan 27, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> For the record, that video is garbage!


Not if it encourages more drivers to hang up their keys!

(I'm all about "thinning the herd")


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## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

KevRyde said:


> Not if it encourages more drivers to hang up their keys!
> 
> (I'm all about "thinning the herd")


Heh... that's fine with me since you state your goal clearly.


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## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Uber is engaging in false and misleading advertising, that's all. Too bad there's not going to be criminal charges.


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## dizie (Aug 15, 2016)

Scam paid for my mortgage this month...


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## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

dizie said:


> Scam paid for my mortgage this month...


Lol


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

FAC said:


> I haven't been on this site for a while nor have I been driving. Then I came across this video and I realized I haven't done a good job at tracking my expenses. After watching this video, I ran my numbers and decided driving isn't for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Fallon, I figured as much. Sad to see you go! Good luck to you and Mattie! The irony is YouTube apparently changed their TOS and a video like this one is being penalized since it will affect Travass' advertising.  You did a great job sharing your experience and educating drivers and I hope you check in once in a while, if you're a pax.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

this video is full of misleading information. Uber drivers are not responsible for collecting sales tax, and it doesn't cost $0.54/mile to run a compact car.


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

Right, the video might not be completely accurate, which is a shame, however the message is. Cash flow is not income or profit, it is cash flow. Cash flow is what the video is pointing out. You need to figure out how much you are paying yourself as an independent contractor, after your expenses and be sure to include every single expense and [realize] the inherent risks. Know all of the laws and regulations and don't count on Travass to inform you of anything. [That and check to be sure you are paid the correct amount as FAC has championed on here.]


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

Robertk said:


> this video is full of misleading information. Uber drivers are not responsible for collecting sales tax, and it doesn't cost $0.54/mile to run a compact car.


You're not an employee. You're a business. You don't collect profit. You collect revenue. It's not profit until you pay for all your expenses. This includes accounting for all applicable federal, state, and local taxes. What taxes apply at the state and local levels differ by area, so you better make sure you're aware of the business tax laws for your area.

The cost per mile is not the cost to run your car. Actually running your vehicle is just one part of the cost. You also pay insurance (which most drivers underpay since the don't pay for rideshare or commercial insurance). Your car depreciates with every mile (and this can be substantial if you have a newer vehicle). You have current and future maintenance and repairs. You have car payments and finance charges. So on and so forth. They all add up.

The $0.54 IRS deduction per mile is a little under the average cost per mile of the average 4 door sedan ($0.57). Note that these amounts are for the AVERAGE vehicle operator in the US. This can vary based on your personal circumstances, driving habits, location, etc. For example, if you car already has zero equity left in it, it really can't depreciate anymore. If you've already paid off your car, then obviously you don't have a monthly payment and finance charges factoring into your per mile cost. If you handle your own oil changes, that's going to be cheaper. So on and so forth.


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

FAC said:


> I haven't been on this site for a while nor have I been driving. Then I came across this video and I realized I haven't done a good job at tracking my expenses. After watching this video, I ran my numbers and decided driving isn't for me.


I keep track of every little USB cable and mile, EVERYTHING!
Hopefully April will be kind to me


FAC said:


> somehow my boobs became a topic that got featured





FAC said:


> Moving on in my life and focusing on school and getting my 3rd degree for my 3rd career change. I'll miss you all. I wish all my friends the best especially Fireguy50









FAC said:


> It's hard to read all the frustrating posts. Take care everyone! Uber On!


Yeah I agree, it's hard to watch the tens of thousands of people get lied to by Uber and their dreams get crushed.
It's a souless company


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

FAC said:


> I haven't been on this site for a while nor have I been driving. Then I came across this video and I realized I haven't done a good job at tracking my expenses. After watching this video, I ran my numbers and decided driving isn't for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm fine with you quitting but that video was so full of errors, I don't know where to start.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Xylphan said:


> You also pay insurance (which most drivers underpay since the don't pay for rideshare or commercial insurance).


If you buy a car and insurance just to drive Uber, or TNC insurance, or they raised your rates to Uber, I agree, otherwise Insurance is a sunk cost of the rest of your life and not a cost of Ubering. If you start Ubering today and do not add insurance cost or stop Ubering tomorrow and you still have that cost, it's not a cost of Ubering.



Xylphan said:


> The $0.54 IRS deduction per mile is a little under the average cost per mile of the average 4 door sedan ($0.57). Note that these amounts are for the AVERAGE vehicle operator in the US.


New, driven off the lot to your first ping, fully financed, and following manufacturer's recommended maintenance. It's in no way representative of actual real world costs. So, no, not average, average for a new financed car in its first 5 years of life. Also, many costs go down as you put miles on.

For example, my vehicle is not financed and its total value is $4,000. My numbers are more like $.20 a mile in 2016 and they were $.17 in 2015.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

Fireguy50 said:


> I keep track of every little USB cable and mile, EVERYTHING!
> Hopefully April will be kind to me
> 
> 
> ...


Fireguy50 I knew i could count on you sending me off with another hilarious video. Thank you!


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

I'm not disagreeing with everyone including Undermensch and RamzFanz who believes the video is full of errors. The point that resinated with me is when she compared Uber to getting a payday loan. You get the cash you need immediately, but if your not good at budgeting and saving, you pay for it later. I admittedly didn't track my expenses like a business. After i watched this video, i put together my spreadsheet of earnings, and realized for me it was like a payday loan. I didn't put money aside for taxes. Especially employment tax. Which you are taxed on the bottom line, including the amount Uber takes as their commission. The tax deductions come in after the self employment tax aka social security tax.

Robertk the sales tax she is referring to is your state income tax.

KevRyde, I'll miss you too One less driver in Colorado to compete with, although our schedules and driving was completely different. Good luck, your one of the few I know who do make a good living driving. You're also a great contributor to this site helping newbies learn the ropes. Your posts and information was invaluable to me. So thank you. I'll also miss your sarcasm!

5 Star Guy it's up to you now to be an advocate for drivers to help educate them to document all their trips to ensure Uber doesn't unfairly modify their pay without notice.

SEAL Team 5 according to the folks at NFL.com the Broncos don't have a chance to win the super bowl much less make the playoffs. But if they do win I just might do an encore performance to the first super bowl win!


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## 4736353377384555736 (Aug 27, 2016)

It's interesting that so many people think the IRS is just giving away free money by overestimating the cost to run a vehicle for business.


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

4736353377384555736 said:


> It's interesting that so many people think the IRS is just giving away free money by overestimating the cost to run a vehicle for business.


In addition to depreciation, gas, and maintenance , you also have 'inherent risk'.

Risk can include Accidents, Tickets etc...

To really calculate the cost/mile to operate, we should be somehow assigning a cost value to the % chance of these risks. That's another expense that most drivers exclude.


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## the rebel (Jun 12, 2016)

FAC said:


> I'm not disagreeing with everyone including Undermensch and RamzFanz who believes the video is full of errors. The point that resinated with me is when she compared Uber to getting a payday loan. You get the cash you need immediately, but if your not good at budgeting and saving, you pay for it later. I admittedly didn't track my expenses like a business. After i watched this video, i put together my spreadsheet of earnings, and realized for me it was like a payday loan. I didn't put money aside for taxes. Especially employment tax. Which you are taxed on the bottom line, including the amount Uber takes as their commission. The tax deductions come in after the self employment tax aka social security tax.


The self employment tax is on the profit only, and comes after your deductions.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

FAC said:


> according to the folks at NFL.com the Broncos don't have a chance to win the super bowl much less make the playoffs. But if they do win I just might do an encore performance to the first super bowl win!


That is unusual. It used to be that Denver could be 3-8 and national sports "journalists" would still be discussing the playoff prospects. Is Denver going to be dethroned as a perennially overrated team?

Anyhow, thank you for your contributions, FAC. I, for one, will miss you.

Later.


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> If you buy a car and insurance just to drive Uber, or TNC insurance, or they raised your rates to Uber, I agree, otherwise Insurance is a sunk cost of the rest of your life and not a cost of Ubering. If you start Ubering today and do not add insurance cost or stop Ubering tomorrow and you still have that cost, it's not a cost of Ubering.


If you are driving without commercial or TNC coverage, then you're playing with fire. Most ride-sharers do NOT have proper coverage, and try to hide the fact that they do drive-sharing from their insurance companies because a) they don't want to get dropped and b) they don't want to pay the additional cost.



RamzFanz said:


> New, driven off the lot to your first ping, fully financed, and following manufacturer's recommended maintenance. It's in no way representative of actual real world costs. So, no, not average, average for a new financed car in its first 5 years of life. Also, many costs go down as you put miles on.


Yes they are. Or are you claiming that the IRS is giving away money? The numbers they use to to compute the deduction for miles driven is based upon the statistics of the US driving population. It's not some random number they pull out of their ass.

You put 50K miles on a new car in the first year and most cars will be worth half what you paid for it. You get into accident? Insurance, maintenance, depreciation, accidents, dings, dents, fuel, registration, taxes, etc. There are a lot of factors that go into the cost per mile calculations.

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/r...ansportation_statistics/html/table_03_17.html

Straight from the US DOT.



RamzFanz said:


> For example, my vehicle is not financed and its total value is $4,000. My numbers are more like $.20 a mile in 2016 and they were $.17 in 2015.


You are not the average driver. And you're driving a lot more than the average.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

FAC said:


> Robertk the sales tax she is referring to is your state income tax.


well that explains my confusion- my state does not have an income tax..... but.... how is this any different from regular wages? Regular W-2 income is also subject to state income tax, is it not? And if my earning for Uber were $12k last year that's not much income tax at all, assuming that most states have progressive taxation- certainly not 10% as mentioned in the video.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

4736353377384555736 said:


> It's interesting that so many people think the IRS is just giving away free money by overestimating the cost to run a vehicle for business.


it's interesting that you believe that your wages belong to the IRS and they are graciously 'giving' you YOUR money.

Hint- the reason why the IRS sets a fixed cost per mile higher than the actual cost to run most vehicles is because it makes taxation simpler for the population. If the IRS tried to get every last penny people would rebel by cheating (more than they already do). Take a look at taxation in Greece for an example of a low trust society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion_and_corruption_in_Greece


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

Robertk said:


> well that explains my confusion- my state does not have an income tax..... but.... how is this any different from regular wages? Regular W-2 income is also subject to state income tax, is it not? And if my earning for Uber were $12k last year that's not much income tax at all, assuming that most states have progressive taxation- certainly not 10% as mentioned in the video.


Did you only make $12K last year?

Taxes apply to all your income. If you have a job that pays you $20K and you make $12K from Uber, your total income is $32K.


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

I just don't see the debate here.

Working full time uberX with an old car = small step up from min wage pay + large step up from min-wage working environment (if u can handle driving)

Working full time uberX with a brand new car can at times= min wage or worse pay + same environment benefits (until the pyramid collapses)

This is a good opportunity for those in need of a paycheck or a change of scenery, but very few people will make a 'Real Job' Net Profit over a long period of time driving UberX.
The expenses are far more than advertised and even the gross profit is lower than advertised.

no real debate to be had whether you are a little more efficient or not.
and if you are the 1 out every 50,000 drivers who makes a 'Real Job' Net after expenses, while that's great, you are also very likely extremely underemployed. You should figure things out and go make millions at something else where the market matches your elite skills.

I only know uberX, but none of the platforms seem to be giving away free money compared to pre-uber market values


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Sorry to see you go.

Take care of yourself.


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

simpsonsverytall said:


> I just don't see the debate here.


There isn't really a debate. It's more like people willingly deluding themselves. It's like X-Files, they want to believe.

Most people have no idea what it takes to run a business (a contributing factor to why most businesses fail). The high turnover for Uber/Lyft is a direct result of this fact. People treat it like a normal job. The don't do accrual accounting. The don't do economic projections. They don't take into account all their expenses or future expenses (or lie to themselves about it).

The bill comes due eventually. Some will be smart, some will be lucky, but most won't. They find out the hard way that what Uber's marketing tells them and what the reality is are two very different things.

Outside of a select few areas, I couldn't imagine doing this as a full time job. Just about any entry level position would pay better, and there are benefits thrown in. It's more lucrative as a side gig, but you still need to be smart about it.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> That is unusual. It used to be that Denver could be 3-8 and national sports "journalists" would still be discussing the playoff prospects. Is Denver going to be dethroned as a perennially overrated team?
> 
> Anyhow, thank you for your contributions, FAC. I, for one, will miss you.
> 
> Later.


Another Uber Driver, I wouldn't expect anything less than one last chance to make a hit at my Broncos  The Broncos rarely get respect in the media and they are not an overrated team! We did win Super Bowl 50 with a QB who was ranked 33 when there are only 32 teams in the league. We have the best defense in the league and our offense is better than last year. We just have two young inexperienced QBs. I'm a true fan and believe every year we will make it the big game. Been going to the games since i was 4. So I'm no bandwagon fan. I believe in the Broncos!

I will miss you too! We had some great discussions I enjoyed very much.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

FAC said:


> SEAL Team 5 according to the folks at NFL.com the Broncos don't have a chance to win the super bowl much less make the playoffs. But if they do win I just might do an encore performance to the first super bowl win!


Don't tease me!!! They said the same exact thing about the New York Jets in Super Bowl III. Even if your Broncos get to the big dance, I will leave the beautiful February weather of Phoenix to fly up to Denver in the bitter cold and root for the Broncos with you. Unless of course my Cardinals are at the big show. And it will not only be a date, but a SPECTACULAR date. Thanks again for the fun posts.


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## D.J. (Apr 15, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> For the record, that video is garbage.
> 
> But best of luck!


Could you elaborate on why it's garbage? It seems like legit math to me, save for the part about the water and gum


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## Slavic Riga (Jan 12, 2016)

FAC said:


> Hanging up my keys and saying goodbye for now to my friends I've met here on UP. Thanks to this forum I've gained great advice, engaged in heated debates, somehow my boobs became a topic that got featured, and overall it's been a great experience.
> 
> I'll likely stop by from time to time to check in. But in all honesty not often. Uber has created such a negative environment taking advantage of good people. It's hard to read all the frustrating posts. Take care everyone! Uber On!


So, no more boobs talk/education anymore. 
It was fun having you on this forum. Don't disappear on us.
Wish you all the best.


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## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

D.J. said:


> Could you elaborate on why it's garbage? It seems like legit math to me, save for the part about the water and gum


Yeah, I've elaborated on it plenty:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/54-cents-mile-usa-driver-truthers-listen-up.78860/


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## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Undermensch said:


> Yeah, I've elaborated on it plenty:
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/54-cents-mile-usa-driver-truthers-listen-up.78860/


My intuition tells me that you want to defend the monkey on your back at all costs. Unfortunately, other people are being exploited besides yourself who might be persuaded by your apologia for this ponzie scheme.


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## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

FAC said:


> Another Uber Driver, I wouldn't expect anything less than one last chance to make a hit at my Broncos  The Broncos rarely get respect in the media and they are not an overrated team! We did win Super Bowl 50 with a QB who was ranked 33 when there are only 32 teams in the league. We have the best defense in the league and our offense is better than last year. We just have two young inexperienced QBs. I'm a true fan and believe every year we will make it the big game. Been going to the games since i was 4. So I'm no bandwagon fan. I believe in the Broncos!
> 
> I will miss you too! We had some great discussions I enjoyed very much.


It won't be the same around here without your input on the ongoing service animal debate. Hope you enjoyed the Super Bowl last year since my Raiders will finally take the AFC West this year.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

LA Dispatcher said:


> It won't be the same around here without your input on the ongoing service animal debate. Hope you enjoyed the Super Bowl last year since my Raiders will finally take the AFC West this year.


There really isn't a debate. It's just assholes vs. decent people when it comes to that.

Yes, occasionally the asshole is the pax faking it, but more often than not it's the driver.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

FAC said:


> I haven't been on this site for a while nor have I been driving. Then I came across this video and I realized I haven't done a good job at tracking my expenses. After watching this video, I ran my numbers and decided driving isn't for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to see you go. I remember when you were all shiny and new and didn't really believe what we were saying...but you were never quite as blind as some, that's for sure. And your input on service dogs was certainly invaluable. Good luck! (You could take a trip a month to stay active in case Uber comes to its senses, I suppose. That's what I'm doing. I'm still on the forum because it's entertaining and I do like to try to be a "truther". LOL.)


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## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> There really isn't a debate. It's just assholes vs. decent people when it comes to that.
> 
> Yes, occasionally the asshole is the pax faking it, but more often than not it's the driver.


It's a little more complex than that, and certainly a lot of confusion on both sides.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

LA Dispatcher said:


> It's a little more complex than that, and certainly a lot of confusion on both sides.


Actually it's really not. And I guarantee you, the folks that HAVE service animals are not at all confused.

However, didn't mean to hijack this thread so will leave this topic so don't bother replying. I won't.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

FAC said:


> I didn't put money aside for taxes. Especially employment tax. Which you are taxed on the bottom line, including the amount Uber takes as their commission. The tax deductions come in after the self employment tax aka social security tax.


You're mistaken. Self Employment Tax comes after all costs. It's also not truly a tax, more of insurance that for most people gets paid back in full and beyond in retirement.



4736353377384555736 said:


> It's interesting that so many people think the IRS is just giving away free money by overestimating the cost to run a vehicle for business.


They don't overestimate per se, they assume you are driving a fully financed new car off the lot to your first ping which, unless you make really bad decisions, is never the case. So yes, in the real world, most people greatly benefit from the deduction up to zero federal income taxes, if you're smart about it.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Xylphan said:


> Yes they are. Or are you claiming that the IRS is giving away money? The numbers they use to to compute the deduction for miles driven is based upon the statistics of the US driving population. It's not some random number they pull out of their ass.
> 
> You put 50K miles on a new car in the first year and most cars will be worth half what you paid for it. You get into accident? Insurance, maintenance, depreciation, accidents, dings, dents, fuel, registration, taxes, etc. There are a lot of factors that go into the cost per mile calculations.
> 
> ...


Yes, the IRS gives away money. In my household we get about $12,000 a year that we would have had to pay without deductions. I own a house and write off the interest every year. I drive for Uber and write off more than double my actual costs. I have kids and get an instant deduction every year.

The numbers the IRS uses are from studies of BRAND NEW straight off the lot and FULLY FINANCED cars, nothing even close to average. If you want to understand your actual costs, you need to study the subject more. Yes, the IRS (not actually them, but OK) considers all costs for a NEW car, no one said they didn't.

50K? If you drive one foot off the car lot you're upside down on your loan. People who consider the costs don't buy new cars just to Uber.



Xylphan said:


> You are not the average driver. And you're driving a lot more than the average.


I barely drive. Not sure where you got that.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Xylphan said:


> If you are driving without commercial or TNC coverage, then you're playing with fire. Most ride-sharers do NOT have proper coverage, and try to hide the fact that they do drive-sharing from their insurance companies because a) they don't want to get dropped and b) they don't want to pay the additional cost.


I agree. Never said anything else.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> Yes, the IRS gives away money. In my household we get about $12,000 a year that we would have had to pay without deductions. I own a house and write off the interest every year. I drive for Uber and write off more than double my actual costs. I have kids and get an instant deduction every year.
> 
> The numbers the IRS uses are from studies of BRAND NEW straight off the lot and FULLY FINANCED cars, nothing even close to average. If you want to understand your actual costs, you need to study the subject more. Yes, the IRS (not actually them, but OK) considers all costs for a NEW car, no one said they didn't.
> 
> ...


Except for credits, they're not GIVING you money. They're just giving BACK or not taking it in the first place.

Unless you owe NO taxes AND they sent you a check, you are simply paying them less.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Except for credits, they're not GIVING you money. They're just giving BACK or not taking it in the first place.
> 
> Unless you owe NO taxes AND they sent you a check, you are simply paying them less.


They are giving away money they _could _have collected.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

LA Dispatcher said:


> It won't be the same around here without your input on the ongoing service animal debate. Hope you enjoyed the Super Bowl last year since my Raiders will finally take the AFC West this year.


Indeed, the Raiders appear to finally have a good team for the first time in 15 years. I hope they stay in Oakland. The Las Vegas Raiders just doesn't sound right. I'll miss you too. I'll check in from time to time but from a PAX perspective who once was a driver.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Sorry to see you go. I remember when you were all shiny and new and didn't really believe what we were saying...but you were never quite as blind as some, that's for sure. And your input on service dogs was certainly invaluable. Good luck! (You could take a trip a month to stay active in case Uber comes to its senses, I suppose. That's what I'm doing. I'm still on the forum because it's entertaining and I do like to try to be a "truther". LOL.)


Fuzzyelvis, Yes. I was so naive and wanted to believe the good in everything. I've been described by my friends almost to be obnoxiously optimistic. I usually can find good or blessings in all challenges. Finding it challenging to find anything good about corporate Uber. For a long time, the media was painting uber drivers as villains. Slowly they are seeing the villain is indeed Uber.

I likely won't hand up the keys forever, like you, I may take the monthly drive; there is always the entertainment factor. I'll likely stop by giving a pax perspective. I end up being a pax often due to my mother's health and having to meet her and drive her home.

I do love this site. It's been so educational. The people rock. But like i said, it's hard to read about all the frustration the drivers are going through. Uber could have been a really awesome company but they forgot about the most important element, the human element that makes it work.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Except for credits, they're not GIVING you money. They're just giving BACK or not taking it in the first place.
> 
> Unless you owe NO taxes AND they sent you a check, you are simply paying them less.


Not only does the IRS gives BACK your own money, you don't even get paid interest on the withholdings.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

RamzFanz your quote below is exactly why I shouldn't be driving. I'm good at a lot of things but money management and accounting isn't one of them.



RamzFanz said:


> You're mistaken. Self Employment Tax comes after all costs. It's also not truly a tax, more of insurance that for most people gets paid back in full and beyond in retirement.


I was driving blind. Not tracking all my expenses, I was tracking my mileage. But not withholdings or as you point out, didn't even know when and how Self Employment Tax is deducted. The wear and tear on my car was costing me thousands since i have a high-performance car. Not to mention it's recommended I use premium gas, mid-grade at the very lowest but never regular since i have a turbo engine. So my operating costs are higher than most. Although I qualify for select, still it doesn't make economic sense for me to drive. Still may do a once a month thing like Fuzzyelvis suggests. Still may get into another heated discussion on this site but it would be from a PAX perspective and likely relating to dogs


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## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

Blahgard said:


> My intuition tells me that you want to defend the monkey on your back at all costs. Unfortunately, other people are being exploited besides yourself who might be persuaded by your apologia for this ponzie scheme.


That made no sense.


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

FAC said:


> Not only does the IRS gives BACK your own money, you don't even get paid interest on the withholdings.


Yeah, it's like Uber "bonuses". Unless they're giving you more money back than the cut they take, then it's not a bonus. It's a reduction in their fee percentage. You're just getting more of your money back.


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## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

dizie said:


> Scam paid for my mortgage this month...


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

Goga said:


> I am going to defend uber.
> Uber gives you opportunity to make same extra money and how you gonna use it it's up to you.
> You may waste time driving pool or non surge calls.
> I am driving 5-6 hours a week making $200-$250 That's works great for me.


No you're not. You get $0.80 per mile and $0.18 per minute. Even driving straight freeway for 6 hours at 60 mph would only give you $264.40 after Uber took their cut, and that's without any expenses or taxes. So what are you doing? Hitting max surge the whole time?



jack badly said:


> lol @ these people quitting. I am driving a $12k KIA. I have no issue or concerns with depreciation.


It's still an economic factor whether you want to have an "issue" with it or not. The IRS certainly does.



jack badly said:


> you gotta be an idiot if you drive a $20k+ car for uberx price. pax who requests uberx should deserves car like nissan versa, kia rio, ford fiesta etc...


Well we agree here.



jack badly said:


> i would till be satisfied with 20/hr. sometimes i make 25+/hr (really depends on the day)


Don't know where you are in Texas, but that sounds like you're not accounting for expenses.


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## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

Undermensch said:


> That made no sense.


you're obviously an uber apologist. Question is why.


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

The after picture, after the IRS stops by for a chat about how they're handling their taxes and expensing.


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## Xylphan (Aug 26, 2016)

Blahgard said:


> you're obviously an uber apologist. Question is why.


Hypothetically speaking, one could go for a over a year working for Uber before hitting the April 15th "Oh shit!" moment. Most figure it out well before then, but some are more stubborn than others. Maybe he just hasn't hit his yet so is still in the starry eyed "Uber is the greatest!" stage.


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## dizie (Aug 15, 2016)

Houses in Nevada are really cheap. 3 bedroom house in a good neighborhood is less than 1k$ per month.


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## Blahgard (Aug 16, 2016)

dizie said:


> Houses in Nevada are really cheap. 3 bedroom house in a good neighborhood is less than 1k$ per month.


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## dizie (Aug 15, 2016)




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## stephan (Aug 25, 2016)

Robertk said:


> this video is full of misleading information. Uber drivers are not responsible for collecting sales tax, and it doesn't cost $0.54/mile to run a compact car.


It cost you more, I got 6$ plus 35 cents a mile back in 2011 plus tips for car mileage, so 54 cents now that's very true .


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

FAC said:


> RamzFanz your quote below is exactly why I shouldn't be driving. I'm good at a lot of things but money management and accounting isn't one of them.
> 
> ... Still may get into another heated discussion on this site but it would be from a PAX perspective and *likely relating to dogs*


And the _girls... _


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

4736353377384555736 said:


> It's interesting that so many people think the IRS is just giving away free money by overestimating the cost to run a vehicle for business.


Well, lots of people think their tax refunds are free money too. Lots of idiots out there.

Anyway, the IRS mileage rate is based on an average. It's interesting that so many people think that there aren't people who can beat the mileage rate easily, and that the cost to operate a vehicle doesn't vary widely.


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## Jimmy Bernat (Apr 12, 2016)

FAC said:


> I haven't been on this site for a while nor have I been driving. Then I came across this video and I realized I haven't done a good job at tracking my expenses. After watching this video, I ran my numbers and decided driving isn't for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the shot out lol 
I've seen that video and it really doesn't take in to account a lot of things . She completely ignores the per minute charge which may not be much but it's a big enough factor that it shouldn't be forgotten . Also most of her numbers are based on new cars which I think is a horrible idea to buy a brand new car to begin with , they loose 30% or more in the first 50 miles .

It also doesn't take in to account being able to drive Select or Surge pricing . Yes if you buy a brand new car and drive UberX at only base prices the odds of you making more then $8 an hour are pretty low . Those crappy non surge non select rides are not money makers but you almost have to take some in order to hit your big rides. This morning I got a $124 Lyft ride South Denver to DIA then instantly got an Uber Select Ride back to Denver . After the small tips I got form both riders I had made $200 in under 2 hours , or $100 an hour .
Obviously that doesn't happen often but I end 4 hour shifts making well over $150 all of the time and then I'll have a 4hour shift I make $50 on the next day so it all equals out .

I calculate all my expenses pretty closely and my car cost me roughly 18 cents a mile to drive doing Uber that includes maintenance, gas , tires , cleaning , and depreciation heck I even add a small amount to car repair that wouldn't be covered by my CPO warranty . I blew out a tire one day had to get another one picked up a same model used tire for $40 installed (I've actually had 2 tire blow outs in the 8 months and 2700 rides the first one cost me $35) , I got into a minor fender bender at Red Rocks my fault but we did it off the books and that cost me $400 . So I added in a $1000 a year misc repair expenses to my numbers .

But good luck to you in whatever you do , I only plan on doing this full time for another 6 months and then it will be back to the real world but I'm loving my sabbatical from my career


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

Jimmy Bernat said:


> I calculate all my expenses pretty closely and my car cost me roughly 18 cents a mile to drive doing Uber that includes maintenance, gas , tires , cleaning , and depreciation heck I even add a small amount to car repair that wouldn't be covered by my CPO warranty .


Jimmy Bernat, I'm very good at many things, tracking my finances, even balancing my checkbook isn't one of them. But I did get my undergrad degree in statistics. Agreed she doesn't take into account Select or surge. But taking the most recent 2015 numbers posted on this site (I know they have fluctuated a bit since they were posted) Denver falls in the bottom 25% for both UberX and Select for Base fares, Minute, Mile and Minimum. It could be worse, we could be in MI or areas in FL that only charge $0.75 mile. (Ironically Detroit's Select fair is higher than Denver although their X fare is the lowest in the country)

The only point that hit me hard on the head was comparing driving Uber to payday loan. That was my scenario. You get money immediately but have to pay tax on it later. My ineffective accounting failed to save or account for that. Plus the wear and tear on my car isn't worth it for me. I could have lived with that. But what was really eating my soul was working for such an unethical company.



Jimmy Bernat said:


> Thanks for the shot out lol
> But good luck to you in whatever you do , I only plan on doing this full time for another 6 months and then it will be back to the real world but I'm loving my sabbatical from my career


I hear you there about the sabbatical, I was forced into a career change but in reality i was getting burned out of my previous career. Took some time off to figure out what next; got sued in the meantime and finally six years later the litigation is close to over; finishing up school for my next career and ready to start over. Guess that's the definition of a mid-life crisis 

I'm taking Fuzzyelvis advice and will do at least one drive a month to remain active. At least for a while. If for anything the entertainment factor. But it's just exhausting read the negativity of all the frustrated drivers here. I started out all positive, even though I was frustrated at times. Still positive because of all the riders I picked up, only had one negative experience when the pax got violent and started hitting my car and his buddy sitting in the front. A few pax that frustrated me. And many more that were a delight to drive. If only Uber paid more and had some ethics, I wouldn't be hanging up my keys.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

UberLaLa said:


> And the _girls... _


UberLaLa- I will never live that post down, will I? I doubt such a posting will be allowed again. How it was allowed in the first place I don't know. But it was fun! I guess the moderators realized we needed something light hearted and fun to discuss.

You take care of yourself. I'll miss you. But if i come back as Pax, i might create a new name like FAC-PAX with my famous westie pic so you all know its me but can distinguish if I'm responding from the perspective of a Pax or Driver.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

FAC said:


> UberLaLa- I will never live that post down, will I? I doubt such a posting will be allowed again. How it was allowed in the first place I don't know. But it was fun! I guess the moderators realized we needed something light hearted and fun to discuss.
> 
> You take care of yourself. I'll miss you. But if i come back as Pax, i might create a new name like FAC-PAX with my famous westie pic so you all know its me but can distinguish if I'm responding from the perspective of a Pax or Driver.


Who said only active drivers can be on UP? There are quite a few inactive still here...


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