# 5 star rating system explained - abusive riders have 7X more votes than good riders



## SafeT (Nov 23, 2015)

*5 STAR SYSTEM EXPLAINED*

*Let's say that four various riders rate you today as follows...*

5 Stars - Normal courteous rule-following rider, no problems, passenger and driver happy
5 Stars - Normal courteous rule-following rider, no problems, passenger and driver happy
5 Stars - Normal courteous rule-following rider, no problems, passenger and driver happy
1 Star - Jerk.. tries to bring open beer containers, too many riders, abusive, you had to say no to something


*After Uber averages the above ratings this is what happens to those riders who rated you.*

4.0 - The normal courteous rule-following rider gets 1 star removed from his 5 rating (1 star theft)
4.0 - The normal courteous rule-following rider gets 1 star removed from his 5 rating (1 star theft)
4.0 - The normal courteous rule-following rider gets 1 star removed from his 5 rating (1 star theft)
4.0 - The rude rule-breaker still effectively gives you a 4 which is Uber-unacceptable (stole 3 stars from good riders)

Q: So what exactly happened here?
A: The rude passenger effectively stole 1 star from each of the courteous rule-following passengers.

Q: How did that happen?
A: With the 5 star system the 5 star is considered an up thumb, while 4 stars is considered a down thumb (think Facebook, YouTube). (*4.5 being the medium rating for determining up or down*) Any rating below 4 stars cuts into the other rider's 5 star ratings, which effectively gives the rude rule-breaking rider up to 7 votes (if they rate 1 star) to every 5 star vote for the courteous rule-following passengers, since he effectively nullified or deleted the three 5 star UP votes (as if they didn't exist) and turned them into DOWN votes (4 stars). making it the same as 4 down votes for the day, or 4 unhappy passengers.

So, to review. The rude rule-breaking riders effectively have 7 votes on the Uber system compared to all courteous rule-following passengers who only have 1 vote. The effect for the day? You get 4 down votes which is caused by the rude passenger stealing 1 star from each of the good riders.

Another example. You go to the polls to vote for President of the United States. According to recent election results a Democrat has about a 50/50 chance with a Republican contender of being elected. If we however use the Uber voting system, we would give Democrats 7 votes for every one vote a Republican makes. Giving the Democrats a 4 to 0 landslide victory on election day.

Before
Democrat 1 vote
Republican 3 vote

After Vote-Ubering
Democrat 4 Votes
Republican 0 votes (3 Republican votes were nullified then 3 new votes were given to the Democrats)

Q: What is the solution?
A: Change the system so everyone has the same vote&#8230;one vote! This is already in place on various websites. YouTube videos, Facebook and many more. Even the Uber chat help support system uses the up/down thumb system!

Giving the worst-of-the-worst passengers 7 times more votes than the passengers who are courteous and follow the rules only has the effect of sending Uber on a fast path race to the bottom where rude passengers rule the day and drivers can only keep good ratings by breaking laws and risking their personal safety. I can't see how Uber management can possibly think this is a great idea for long term survival of the company.


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## annbanan (Nov 3, 2015)

The up/down thumb system would feel better -- a less stressed, happier vibe for the drivers. 

Many riders don't bother to rate me anyway. Many don't care to be bothered.

It's awful that Uber places so much importance on ratings. It's so heavy and causes so much stress, dread and misery because it's so unfair. It's like having an unfair boss who makes you sweat bullets everyday.

One time a rider said, "You drivers are so hard on yourselves." (I had been stressed, worried and apologetic about not finding him quickly enough). I said, "It's not just me?" "He said, "No, y'all are like that."


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

The problem with all these analyses is that they assume there's something wrong with weighting negative scores more than positive scores. Think about it for a minute. If a negative riding experience carried the same weight as a positive one, then there wouldn't really worry too much about giving a bad ride. It's the fact that they hurt so much that we do everything we possibly can to keep the customer happy.

The system is designed that way. It's not a flaw.


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## SafeT (Nov 23, 2015)

Coachman said:


> It's the fact that they hurt so much that we do everything we possibly can to keep the customer happy.


So you think it is a good thing that law breakers, drunks and rude riders should have more votes (4 to 1) than courteous riders who follow the rules? Sorry, I have to disagree. If that is the case, why not give people who REALLY REALLY like you 4 votes. Or, how about a system from -5 t0 +5 with ZERO being the default? That way people who hate you can punk you down -5 and people who love you can pump you up +5. That would also be more fair.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

You have a good point. I think you can dumb it down some and still get your point across.

The pax that rates between 4 and 1 effects your ratings more than the pax that rates you 5.

Uber could also fix this by allowing drivers to have a 2.5 rating or above to be on the platform.

With uber it's either perfect or fail.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

If you have a 4.9 rating after 10 rides. Then you get another 5* for the 11th ride your rating is now 4.909 (less than 4.91). If your 11th ride is a 1 star now your rating is a 4.545. 

Bad rating pax effect your ratings way more than good rating pax. 1 rider effected my rating by more than 7% in my example.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

Let's make one more example. Uber supposedly takes your last 500 rides to make your current rating. 

If you are rated 4.601 after 499 rides.

The next ride is a 5*. Rating is 4.602

The next ride is a 1*. Rating is 4.594

A good rating pax effects a normal drivers rating less than .02% (Rounded).

A bad rating pax effects a normal drivers rating about .16% (Rounded).

Even though the amounts are a lot smaller when it is spread over 500 rides. It still proves that a pax that rates you 1* effects your rating more than 9 times more than a pax that rates you 5*.

(And yes I didn't really "dumb" it down in this example either)


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## Dan Coogan (Nov 19, 2015)

SafeT said:


> So you think it is a good thing that law breakers, drunks and rude riders should have more votes (4 to 1) than courteous riders who follow the rules? Sorry, I have to disagree. If that is the case, why not give people who REALLY REALLY like you 4 votes. Or, how about a system from -5 t0 +5 with ZERO being the default? That way people who hate you can punk you down -5 and people who love you can pump you up +5. That would also be more fair.


Well the real problem is Uber expects drivers to keep a rating of 4.6 or better (somebody correct me if I'm wrong)... So just make 2.5 stars the norm and if you fall below that you risk deactivation.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

SafeT said:


> So you think it is a good thing that law breakers, drunks and rude riders should have more votes (4 to 1) than courteous riders who follow the rules? Sorry, I have to disagree. If that is the case, why not give people who REALLY REALLY like you 4 votes. Or, how about a system from -5 t0 +5 with ZERO being the default? That way people who hate you can punk you down -5 and people who love you can pump you up +5. That would also be more fair.


No matter what scale you choose, almost every rider is going to give you the top score. So low ratings are always going to have more weight than good ratings. Figure it out.

You seem to want a system where a single rider can't hurt your rating. That defeats the whole point. I don't think you understand that.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

Coachman said:


> No matter what scale you choose, almost every rider is going to give you the top score. So low ratings are always going to have more weight than good ratings. Figure it out.
> 
> You seem to want a system where a single rider can't hurt your rating. That defeats the whole point. I don't think you understand that.


No a 4* restaurant is a good restaurant and a 3* is decent. If a 3* restaurant gets another 3* it doesn't effect anything.

Uber makes its threshold to high giving the rider to much power and ability to effect your rating.

In school a B grade is a 4*. That's a good grade. With uber a B is a fail and a constant B gets you deactivated.

Figure it out and understand.


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## X-X_Driver (Dec 11, 2015)

Another viewpoint toward all of this is the fact that Uber provides No guidance or guidelines to riders, in regard to the meaning of the ratings. I've had the opportunity to discuss the rating system with a few riders and all were shocked that 4* was "bad". (One person had no idea that riders were being rated but that's a separate issue). 

As has already been very thoroughly pointed out, in almost every 1 - 5 rating system in existence, 3 would be considered "average", 4 or 5 above average or excellent. 4 is equivalent to a "B" in school and that's considered very good. Most schools even consider a C (3) to be average or acceptable. So yes, the bar is set too high AND most riders have no clue that a 4* is "bad" for a driver. It's not a standard that makes any sense which is why it becomes so stressful. 

I personally (your opinions may certainly vary) feel that 3* or higher should be acceptable. 2.5* probation. etc. ALSO - if a rider wants to enter a rating of 1* or 2* they should have to document their reasons for giving this rating and justify it. It's not that the system shouldn't allow low ratings or that a low rating shouldn't affect the driver, it's more the issue that low ratings should be understood and the riders should be forced to justify said rating if there is merit to giving it.

The other item then becomes - how do we properly and professionally educate the "good" riders about how the system works?


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## Dar-K (Dec 18, 2015)

I like the idea of 1* or 2* requires a comment in the text box.
This would allow the driver to understand where they need areas to improve versus being in the dark.

Also, if Uber felt that this was too generous & would lead to less deactivation's, just set the bar a little higher. As long as they review the comments of 1* or 2* and omit those that seem far-fetched, related to the fare cost (i.e., surges), or something of that nature. 

Someone could rate 1* for no reason at all... And in some cases, it simply hurts the driver. 4* is hurting as well, but there are people who never 5* unless you provide extraordinary customer service. And that level is already high with Uber Pax. 

So having a perfect 5.0* rating simply means you are a new driver. --


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## Paddyuber (Dec 23, 2015)

Being new to Uber driving, I of course have issues about the rating system and its weighting that favours bad riders. I am surprised that with 36 ratings that include 29 by 5 star ratings, I am on 4.69. I have really had a few not so good pax including one who was a bit nasty and a friend to a rider who was quite drunk and few cases of riders not putting in sufficient location details. Of course a bad rating takes that down further. Riders are not taught about the value of ratings and some just don't bother giving perfect scores.

How do we therefore take this to Uber? The fact that a 4 star rating is not good enough is itself not good enough and Uber must know that. True pax may rate you 4 thinking they have done well for you not knowing they are sending you off the road.

Are the riders made aware of this?


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## McLovin (Dec 7, 2015)

SafeT said:


> *5 STAR SYSTEM EXPLAINED*
> 
> *Let's say that four various riders rate you today as follows...*
> 
> ...


This should be a sticky. Well done.


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## Smokenburn (Oct 23, 2015)

The rating system is the biggest red flag that the CEO is an enormous ass hat.


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## haji (Jul 17, 2014)

I low rate all the pax unless they tip


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

haji said:


> I low rate all the pax unless they tip


How can you tell the difference between a horrible passenger (like one who would spit in your face or bring open containers into your car?) and one that doesn't do that shiet?

Also, if you had a passenger who was munching on guacamole and eats like they're missing a front tooth--but tips you good, would you give them a 5?

Just wondering


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

sellkatsell44 said:


> How can you tell the difference between a horrible passenger (like one who would spit in your face or bring open containers into your car?) and one that doesn't do that shiet?
> 
> Also, if you had a passenger who was munching on guacamole and eats like they're missing a front tooth--but tips you good, would you give them a 5?
> 
> Just wondering


Pretty sure really crappy pax will eventually see their ratings drop. I think if one has a habit of spitting on drivers they'll accumulate 1 star ratings pretty quickly.

As far as guacamole in my car? That pax wouldn't tip me as I would have told them up front no eating in my car (and there's a sign) so they'd be getting kicked out prematurely anyway.


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## X-X_Driver (Dec 11, 2015)

Smokenburn said:


> The rating system is the biggest red flag that the CEO is an enormous ass hat.


If I may chime in again. It all IS a big red flag. I would tend to say that while your description is rather appropriate , a more definitive way to view this is that he is most likely a clinical psychopath. That does not mean that he's a criminal but the quick definition is that psychopaths have no empathy and they literally can't feel most emotions - only mimic them. In the diagnostic cluster, many/most are originally seen as highly charming, overly confident, and quite intelligent. While they can talk about feelings, they can't experience normal emotions and form rational thoughts and sound business plans as a result. Problem is they can charm employees, investors, board members for a Long time - often until things cave in - at which point the psychopath walks away with no remorse.

Excerpt from a psychology article -

_"Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others, although they often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain people's trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people. Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature.

When committing crimes, psychopaths carefully plan out every detail in advance and often have contingency plans in place. Unlike their sociopathic counterparts, psychopathic criminals are cool, calm, and meticulous. Their crimes, whether violent or non-violent, will be highly organized and generally offer few clues for authorities to pursue. Intelligent psychopaths make excellent white-collar criminals and "con artists" due to their calm and charismatic natures. " - _* Scott A. Bonn, Ph.D.*_ https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath_

Think seriously about this. Does it remind you of anyone you know or know of? How many companies would value their workers so little to set up this enormously unbalanced rating system coupled with the inability to actually discuss things rationally with live people or to DEFEND against allegations that are coupled with a low rating to keep work and cash flowing? How many companies would offer you money to bring in other people to do your job (read that - replace you) and expect you to fall for it and be happy being suckered? How many companies would play with your legal status as employee vs. independent contractor every few days at their whim - if they cared or had any feelings of appreciation for said people.

The one possible simple explanation (which I think is overly simplistic) is that with the slow economy, they are hoping there will be a steady stream of new "recruits" and just don't care. It's also quite possible that the true goal of Uber is to promote and develop the driverless car and drivers now are just a stepping stone or a "necessary evil" that really aren't in the long-term business plans of those at the top. We're just here out of necessity to help make the public more dependent on and accepting of Uber over time.

And I don't believe for a minute that the upper management isn't aware of the problems that we're all discussing. They created them and are sitting back watching to see how it all plays out. How many CEO's who "care" would have jumped in by now with some sort of attempt to rectify or balance many of these issues? To keep the overall business model in play for the investors they MUST keep clients (riders) happy. Otherwise, funding goes away. Drivers, on the other hand, are considered to be expendable and a psychopath would not care in the least how the drivers are hurt - physically, emotionally/psychologically, or financially. (see above :>).

Just my two cents on the rest of this large picture. I'm proud to be able to help people and will do so as long as not deactivated but the blinders I had on when I started, have come off. I don't know the "fix" for this. It's going to take a very concerted effort from ALL drivers (latest lawsuit proceedings are a good start) or some serious interruption in new venture capital acquisition - which I predict would initially cause even more backlash (example - new contract being forced on everyone). There is visible cause and effect here which all fits if you sit back and look at the big picture.

OK - long-winded analysis over...

For those reading - if you celebrate this time of year - a most Happy time to you. Serious good thoughts, wishes and energy to all as well. Stay strong.

And as a very street-wise lawyer once said to me - "Know from where the attack will come - have your counter in place".

Best to all...


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

sellkatsell44 said:


> How can you tell the difference between a horrible passenger (like one who would spit in your face or bring open containers into your car?) and one that doesn't do that shiet?
> 
> Also, if you had a passenger who was munching on guacamole and eats like they're missing a front tooth--but tips you good, would you give them a 5?
> 
> Just wondering


spitting is concidered assault and you have the right to defend yourself.. if your a wee lass or a frail man might i suggest a solid aluninum flashlight which holds no less than 4 d cell batteries. get a black one so its harder to guess the ark of your swing at night. For bonus points use the bright light in a rapid left right motion across the eyes before striking. keep it under your seat or next to your seat with adhesive velcro which will stick to your carpet and prevent it from rolling sliding under you break peddle.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Adbam said:


> No a 4* restaurant is a good restaurant and a 3* is decent. If a 3* restaurant gets another 3* it doesn't effect anything.
> 
> Uber makes its threshold to high giving the rider to much power and ability to effect your rating.
> 
> ...


Have you ever heard of the concept of the grading curve? It doesn't sound like it.

There's absolutely no reason that the "B" grade has to be at 80% score.

And Uber doesn't "establish" any threshold. The grades are determined strictly by the riders. In Uber's case, the 50% (C) mark happens to be about 4.75-4.80.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Have you ever heard of the concept of the grading curve? It doesn't sound like it.
> 
> There's absolutely no reason that the "B" grade has to be at 80% score.
> 
> And Uber doesn't "establish" any threshold. The grades are determined strictly by the riders. In Uber's case, the 50% (C) mark happens to be about 4.75-4.80.


Grading curves never go up in school. "I'm sorry to many people got A's in your class so your 95 will now be a B." 
Your graph even proves my point. The c is way higher than it should be.

You just have to be right for some reason you have to prove that Uber is good. I love it when someone tries so hard to argue that they actually prove themself wrong.

Grading curves were made to keep people in not keep people out.

Please troll just go to fox news and argue your incorrect points, they appreciate incorrect arguments way more.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

I provide real stats, real math and real help. Look at my stats. I have a 1 like to 1 message ratio. 

But Coachman you have an almost 2 message to like ratio. What does that mean? It means you give a lot of bs info that no one agrees with. (Look on this thread.... who has agreed or liked anything you have said?) I've been agreed with and liked on this thread by many including the up.net super star chi1cabby.

Real stats. Real help.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Adbam said:


> Grading curves never go up in school.


What makes you think Uber ratings are in any way comparable to grades in school?

A better comparison would be an Olympic gymnastics competition. The top competitors earn 9.98, 9.95, 9.93, and 9.97. The next competitor earns a 9.10. In your world, that gymnast should be really happy with her score. It's a 91% so it's an A, right?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Adbam said:


> But Coachman you have an almost 2 message to like ratio. What does that mean? It means you give a lot of bs info that no one agrees with.


I don't strive to be popular here. Just accurate and informative.

But I'm curious, when you see a message on the board that gets lots of likes, that means you ought to agree with it?


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

With anything in life (grades, ratings, interviews, dates...)

You'd want to be passionate not pathetic.

You'd want to please but not bend over on your knees.

You want to be hungry but not desperate.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

Coachman said:


> What makes you think Uber ratings are in any way comparable to grades in school?
> 
> A better comparison would be an Olympic gymnastics competition. The top competitors earn 9.98, 9.95, 9.93, and 9.97. The next competitor earns a 9.10. In your world, that gymnast should be really happy with her score. It's a 91% so it's an A, right?


You brought up the grading curve not me.

Uber isn't school and it isn't the gd Olympics. The Olympics are the best of the best.

So what is ubers rating system most comparable to?

Answer : a restaurant. Both have 5 stars and both rate a service provided.

Again this was already discussed. A 4* restaurant is a great restaurant and a 4* driver is deactivated.

I belive my argument is complete and most people on this forum would rate it 5*.

You on the other hand keep on bringing up examples that don't apply and aren't accurate. You have no proof, no math and no stats. I loved your Google searched grading curve graph that you supplied that actually helped me prove my point. Thanks again. You get 1* and are deactivated.

Ubers rating system is broken every driver knows it.

Game set match.


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## SafeT (Nov 23, 2015)

Coachman said:


> I don't strive to be popular here


No, you just strive to be a troll and give bad info. If you had half a brain you would know that 50% of 5 is 2.5 and Uber's rating scale is not linear as clearly explained in the initial post of this thread that you apparently never read or never understood.


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Buhahahahah, somebody is getting schooled in here


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

do you want 5 stars everytime? reach back and put your hand on your pax knee and look them in the eye and ask"is this gonna be a long ride or short ride" then show them a small bottle of baby oil...sounds weird but it works..especially with the nervous types. hope this helps.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

SafeT said:


> No, you just strive to be a troll and give bad info. If you had half a brain you would know that 50% of 5 is 2.5 and Uber's rating scale is not linear as clearly explained in the initial post of this thread that you apparently never read or never understood.


Rating on a 1 to 5 scale is linear. If you believe it's something else, then what is it?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Adbam said:


> So what is ubers rating system most comparable to?
> 
> Answer : a restaurant. Both have 5 stars and both rate a service provided.


The pinnacle of restaurant review is the Michelin Guide. It uses a 3 star system.

If every driver here was getting mostly 3 stars for average service there would be a riot. Go ahead and start explaining to all your passengers that you're just a typical driver and, like a typical restaurant, you deserve a 3 star rating.

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter what grading system Uber uses because as long as the bottom 10% are at risk for deactivation, everybody will fear the ratings. I actually saw one poster here propose a system where a 1 star doesn't even count against you. Well, what's the point of rating then?


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

Can't you people be nice Christmas Eve,? Troll or not I don't think it was this dudes intention to personally upset anyone


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Adbam said:


> You brought up the grading curve not me.


For use in demonstrating a grading curve. Not to suggest that a 90% score should always be considered an A. The C score for Uber is about a 4.75. The failing grade for Uber is a 4.6. That's the curve. There's nothing flawed about that.


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## Dar-K (Dec 18, 2015)

I think..... Since the app basically forces the passenger & driver to rate prior to using the service again, some people receive ratings that may not accurately reflect how they felt about the ride. In some cases, it may be due to the fact that the rider went so long in between using the app that they forgot what they'd rate the driver. In these cases, it may be a 5 when in reality it may have been something other than a 5 due to the passenger recalling scenarios that they didn't care for.

Other cases, you may have customer (pax) rate 5* even if they didn't feel like the ride was 5*.. I guess I've found myself doing that. I.e., watching the driver circle my address numerous times because they couldn't figure out where I live. Even throwing in text messages explaining how to find the location going possibly ignored. Those situations, probably didn't merit a 5*, but one was given anyways. As a driver, I knew maintaining good ratings was important. --- So if Uber is claiming that great service is provided, I'd imagine they want the best of the best out there. Just too bad you have to put so much effort into something with such 'sad pay' --


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## SafeT (Nov 23, 2015)

Coachman said:


> failing grade for Uber is a 4.6. That's the curve. There's nothing flawed about that.


You spend a lot of time trying to defending the undefendable. It's almost like you have some sort of agenda.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

SafeT said:


> You spend a lot of time trying to defending the undefendable. It's almost like you have some sort of agenda.


Okay, show me your fair rating system. It's got to sort out the good drivers from the bad drivers and identify the worst performers... the bottom of the barrel. How do you devise a system where those at the bottom will say... okay, I deserve my crappy rating because I'm a crappy driver.


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## Choochie (Jan 4, 2015)

cleansafepolite said:


> Can't you people be nice Christmas Eve,? Troll or not I don't think it was this dudes intention to personally upset anyone


They bring in politics and insults when None is necessary.


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## Maderacopy (Nov 24, 2015)

I am ready to give up Lyft over the rating system. On UBER I have over 200 rides and I have a 4.91 rating. On Lyft I have close to 50 rides and I am rated 4.61. I offer a brand new vehicle, water and Spotify in the back seat on an IPad that they control and most people love it. I greet people with a friendly greeting and for those that want to converse I have some great conversations. I have had 3 actual negative comments that point to something I can't control and it is location of pickup (they drop the pin not me) and location at drop off. They put in this info also.

I think the riders rating should impact them just as much as it effects us. They need to know the impact on the driver is potential loss of job.

Maybe tier their cost of UBER on their rating would entice them to be a better rider which includes giving as much location info as possible.

I have finally decided to only give them 4 stars unless they hit my criteria for 5 stars. I used to automatically give 5 stars.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Choochie said:


> They bring in politics and insults when None is necessary.


The insults generally start coming when the arguments fail.


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

I like the Idea of Uber holding passengers to the same standard as us. Just imagine that drunk college kid we all hate who has a 4.6 rating not even thinking about loading 6 pax in our car or bringing open containers into the vehicle..I think bringing an open container into an uber ride should be grounds for a ban..but thats another topic.


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## Smokenburn (Oct 23, 2015)

Adbam said:


> You brought up the grading curve not me.
> 
> Uber isn't school and it isn't the gd Olympics. The Olympics are the best of the best.
> 
> ...


A restaurant has something called a waiter... how are they rated? They are rated by a thing called a "tip". Good job - tip. Not good job - no tip. The customer doesn't hold the power to fire the waiter AND don't tip EVER.

Uber is killing me with their undermining the tipping culture that service industry employees work for a decent wage. Not only has Uber killed that, drivers are constantly on edge working only for an unobtainable ****ing 5 star rating average that is extremely flawed...

This is the most rediculous business model I've ever heard of... What is wrong with this company? Wow.

Hope you all are opting out... unless they make the necessary changes in the next couple weeks. That sure as shit ain't happening.


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

Smokenburn said:


> A restaurant has something called a waiter... how are they rated? They are rated by a thing called a "tip". Good job - tip. Not good job - no tip. The customer doesn't hold the power to fire the waiter AND don't tip EVER.


They dont want to tip, no matter what they say, back in the day i never wanted to tip my cab driver but more than once my last dollar went to a tip...I would even apologize becuase it was all i could give. I remeber the days of calling to see where mu ride was and just getting a gum popping old lady..30-40 minutes hun...didnt want to piss her off becuase they may not send a cab my way next time. saying theres no need to tip is like saying theres no need to put the toilette seat down after a pee. you dont have to, but it shows class and mutual respect when you do


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## Smokenburn (Oct 23, 2015)

cleansafepolite said:


> They dont want to tip, no matter what they say, back in the day i never wanted to tip my cab driver but more than once my last dollar went to a tip...I would even apologize becuase it was all i could give. I remeber the days of calling to see where mu ride was and just getting a gum popping old lady..30-40 minutes hun...didnt want to piss her off becuase they may not send a cab my way next time. saying theres no need to tip is like saying theres no need to put the toilette seat down after a pee. you dont have to, but it shows class and mutual respect when you do


A restaurant will also automatically add gratutity for large parties requiring more work... I loaded and unloaded 15 bags today for people traveling to/from the airport and received $0 tip.


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

Its t


Smokenburn said:


> A restaurant will also automatically add gratutity for large parties requiring more work... I loaded and unloaded 15 bags today for people traveling to/from the airport and received $0 tip.


its time for all uber drivers to develope bad backs over night...im just popping the trunk and chilling , makes airport drop offs so much easier..just make sure you have NOTHING OF VALUE IN YOUR TRUNK.


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## Rick koch (Apr 26, 2016)

Sounds like you people with bad ratings need to be nicer to your customers...open doors ...carry water....gum..candy...it's all tax deductible


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

When I have a polite, but idgaf attitude, customers, even the ones that have "money" <-re: barely over the seven figures threshold combined, bc the ones who usually surpass it is sweet as heck.

Those folks respect me more then if I were polite, bend over backwards for them.

Do yourself a favor and not gad. You're better off.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Smokenburn said:


> A restaurant will also automatically add gratutity for large parties requiring more work... I loaded and unloaded 15 bags today for people traveling to/from the airport and received $0 tip.


This is true but not me, a friend of mine and my sister as well, have seen incidents where the customer will subtract that and sign...and when they get their bill in the mail (bc it's already swiped) they'll fight the amount


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## ubersan (Apr 29, 2016)

Coachman said:


> The problem with all these analyses is that they assume there's something wrong with weighting negative scores more than positive scores. Think about it for a minute. If a negative riding experience carried the same weight as a positive one, then there wouldn't really worry too much about giving a bad ride. It's the fact that they hurt so much that we do everything we possibly can to keep the customer happy.
> 
> The system is designed that way. It's not a flaw.


Your conclusion would be true if there wasn't bloat in the system and if there was a level rating system playing field. The fact that rides have the ability to rate after the fact or after a driver rates them, already heavily skews the rating. Riders will give lower ratings to drivers if a driver gives them a lower rating. Drivers do not have the ability to rate riders after a rider gives them a rating. My experiment this week was to give honest ratings instead of giving everyone 5 stars, and you definitely see reprisal ratings given by riders. So, I gave a rider a well deserved 4 star rating being rude and late (it should have been lower), which the rider in turn gives me a 2 star, which lowered my overall rating by .02 points. Yet, it took 10, 5-star ratings to move my score up just .01. I then gave another two riders 4 stars for being just shy of the 5 minutes late, and my rating again takes a further nose dive by .04. Another five 5 stars makes no impact on increasing my ratings yet. Now before someone asks how I know who is giving me what, well, I don't expect riders to be popping back on two weeks+ after the fact to give me ratings, so I'm confident that I know what is moving and what is not moving my ratings.

Moreover, I'd like to see the numbers on what is the rating range where riders actually pass on a driver for having said rating. If riders care more about the first available ride or any available ride, overweighting negative ratings doesn't matter to actual rider usership, but matters when drivers are cut off by uber.


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## NC252 (Jan 8, 2016)

Coachman said:


> The problem with all these analyses is that they assume there's something wrong with weighting negative scores more than positive scores. Think about it for a minute. If a negative riding experience carried the same weight as a positive one, then there wouldn't really worry too much about giving a bad ride. It's the fact that they hurt so much that we do everything we possibly can to keep the customer happy.
> 
> The system is designed that way. It's not a flaw.


Its only a certain demographic that put so much importance and thought into rating drivers.....the same type that think trump is a great guy with great ideals and that Obama has done no good his entire presidency...... Go figure......these are the hard nose 1 star pushers.....taking their country back....


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## jonni smith (Apr 28, 2016)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KCRgZAlMqrHaWe0_g-5TrTOXwqRc-2JD9JiQ9wlrwkY/edit?usp=sharing


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Dan Coogan said:


> Well the real problem is Uber expects drivers to keep a rating of 4.6 or better (somebody correct me if I'm wrong)... So just make 2.5 stars the norm and if you fall below that you risk deactivation.


The real problem is that Uber doesn't tell pax that anything less than a 5 is bad.

I had a Comcast survey 1 star bad, 2 fair, 3 good, 4 very good. 5 excellent.

The problem is that you can run into 3 or 4 jerks in a day or 2 and be deactivated due to low ratings.

Uber seems to be using Walmarts and Amazon's product review ratings where you don't buy anything less than a 4.6 But with those you can read the reason some gave it a one, and I would buy a 4.0 for some of those products. We are not products.

Uber wants slaves and a 1 is a lashing with scars. We are the slaves and the pax are the massers.



X-X_Driver said:


> If I may chime in again. It all IS a big red flag. I would tend to say that while your description is rather appropriate , a more definitive way to view this is that he is most likely a clinical psychopath. That does not mean that he's a criminal but the quick definition is that psychopaths have no empathy and they literally can't feel most emotions - only mimic them. In the diagnostic cluster, many/most are originally seen as highly charming, overly confident, and quite intelligent. While they can talk about feelings, they can't experience normal emotions and form rational thoughts and sound business plans as a result. Problem is they can charm employees, investors, board members for a Long time - often until things cave in - at which point the psychopath walks away with no remorse.
> 
> ..


Wow that is great. Not only does he not care about anyone but himself, he doesn't understand how or why anyone would care about anyone else, so he's like a Narcissist Psychopath. And when you say not criminal you mean not like a chainsaw psycho/"American Psycho", but I would guess that he is criminal in the white collar way.

Also a sadist, to know that people are not earning, nor can they earn and income in most markets and torture them with rating worries is evil incarnate. I suspect there is an empty throne next to Satan with Travis name on it.


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