# Very interested in what drivers think about surge. Specifically why do you think Uber invented it?



## UberXking

Very interested in what drivers think the reason is that Uber created surge.


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## Uber Math Professor

As I stated before, I think its effing terrible and may ultimately lead to Uber's downfall. 

No one likes getting slammed with a bill way higher than expected.

It is not good for drivers because they have to take the fury of riders rage when they see they have been ripped off. 

Also, drivers are so underpaid at this point that the only hope of making it to a living wage is to get the very rare passenger ripoff surge fare.


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## Yarrick

I agree, Uber is a great app run by stupid people. With the price cuts, the only way you can make money is to go online during a surge only, unless you like $4 fares every 30 min.

They even keep cutting the guarantee money because I would assume they were losing a lot of money on it. Customers are complaining they can't get Uber drivers during non peak times and that is only if your in the surge

area. There is zero incentive to take passengers in the suburbs of my city, they are just out of luck. I don't think I can recall a company going from such high satisfaction with employees (which we are) and customers to

both getting to hate the company... that is just bad management.


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## Guest




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## puber

Yarrick said:


> I agree, Uotherwise great app run by stupid people. With the price cuts, the only way you can make money is to go online during a surge only, unless you like $4 fares every 30 min.
> 
> They even keep cutting the guarantee money because I would assume they were losing a lot of money on it. Customers are complaining they can't get Uber drivers during non peak times and that is only if your in the surge
> 
> area. There is zero incentive to take passengers in the suburbs of my city, they are just out of luck. I don't think I can recall a company going from such high satisfaction with employees (which we are) and customers to
> 
> both getting to hate the company... that is just bad management.


But how are they suppose to deal with driver saturation otherwise?
They can't cup accepting x cars if they want them on every corner and can't fire 20% of drivers every month for the same reason.
With surge they have surge drivers and non-surge poor guys.
Sounds smart.


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## BlkGeep

To get more drivers on the road when demand is high.


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## Yarrick

Well that is only in the core of the city where I live, there are no drivers in the suburbs where there used to be drivers before the cuts. The price cuts have really messed things up as now customers are stranded in the suburbs because there is no incentive to go there. Do I stay in the core of the city during 5x or drive 20 min to the suburb for a non-surge fare... guess what, everyone is going to ignore that ping.


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## UberXking

I have an opinion that it has very little to do with charging the rider more. More to do with manipulating the drivers to be located where the riders will have a better chance of a low fare. I have to fight with the computer and sometimes especially during rush hours turn down or explain to the customer that it doesn't make economic sense to fight 10 minutes of traffic for 1.5 when I have no idea where they are going. Almost all customers agree when I mention this is a RIDESHARE. If it's a long trip I'm dealing with it. If not after the cancel the surge goes up more often than not. I have many other examples that have convinced me that surge is more about moving cars and drivers should work for the surge figure that was posted if it disappears or is lowered shut the phone down. Ultimately we are in charge of what we are willing to work for If we all stopped taking regular fares the computer would have to raise the fare through surge. It takes 2 miles of driving to get paid for 1 mile Our cost of doing business is $1.12 per mile plus are time. Uber is making more money than the driver on most trips in most parts of the country and it's nobody's fault but ours


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## Uberamstel

mike888 said:


> View attachment 5555


Gotta 'like' someone who knows his Pavlov


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## LA-Nights

I ONLY DRIVE SURGE RATES 1.7X OR HIGHER!!

thats how i never drive for .90cent a mile ,,,min rate 1.60a mile

*** Fuber


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## Lidman

UberXking said:


> Very interested in what drivers think the reason is that Uber created surge.


 To rip off pax.


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## rjenkins

I don't hate surge as a concept (I am a capitalist, after all), but Uber's implementation of it is an unwelcome bait-and-switch for passengers who have grown to depend on the service. For drivers, it is a carrot which is quickly pulled away from those who are foolish enough to drive across town to get to it.

Passengers are getting more savvy, now. Many keep both Uber and Lyft apps on their phone. When Uber surges, they'll order a Lyft, even though it may take a little longer for the driver to arrive (typical, at the moment in the Dallas market).

Surge is the #1 complaint I hear from passengers about Uber.

I think a more tempered approach (more realistic standard fares and less-gouging surge pricing) is a formula for long-term success. Lyft has half of that equation going for them, as I rarely see Prime Time (Lyft's surge equivalent) go above 2x. In fact, I'm not sure if I've ever seen it higher than that.


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## Uber-Doober

puber said:


> But how are they suppose to deal with driver saturation otherwise?


^^^
Uhhhhh... Handi-Wipes?


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## Orlando_Driver

So Travis can hold wild **** parties at his house !


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## UberXking

Lidman said:


> To rip off pax.


Is it a rip off to charge more when it's a holiday, weekend or during the hours that most call the graveyard shift"


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## Goober

Dangerous hours, snow, etc....

I love surge...and depend on a few big fares per week out of it.


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## JJcriggins

Uber is simply reaping the what they have sown
Lowering Driver rates, combined with guarantees and surge has created "unintended consequences" and Cobra Effects

@mike888 Drivers are conditioned to only drive during surge/guarantees "Pavlovian conditioning"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect

http://freakonomics.com/2012/10/11/the-cobra-effect-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/


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## Uber Math Professor

BlkGeep said:


> To get more drivers on the road when demand is high.


Yeah how's that working out? Free market supply and demand only works to a certain point before it just becomes highway robbery


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## Uber Math Professor

rjenkins said:


> I don't hate surge as a concept (I am a capitalist, after all), but Uber's implementation of it is an unwelcome bait-and-switch for passengers who have grown to depend on the service. For drivers, it is a carrot which is quickly pulled away from those who are foolish enough to drive across town to get to it.
> 
> Passengers are getting more savvy, now. Many keep both Uber and Lyft apps on their phone. When Uber surges, they'll order a Lyft, even though it may take a little longer for the driver to arrive (typical, at the moment in the Dallas market).
> 
> Surge is the #1 complaint I hear from passengers about Uber.
> 
> I think a more tempered approach (more realistic standard fares and less-gouging surge pricing) is a formula for long-term success. Lyft has half of that equation going for them, as I rarely see Prime Time (Lyft's surge equivalent) go above 2x. In fact, I'm not sure if I've ever seen it higher than that.


The reason lyft never goes above 2.0x is because they were getting slaughtered by Uber. But, yeah lots of pax are doing lyft as well lately so it could go higher soon. But lyft could do the smart thing and cap it at maybe 3.0x or so. Charging $150 to go less than 10 miles is never good publicity


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## Uber Math Professor

Goober said:


> Dangerous hours, snow, etc....
> 
> I love surge...and depend on a few big fares per week out of it.


Yes, you are depending on ripping off a few customers to make up for all of the times you have been ripped off during the week, giving $2.50 rides.

Does that seem like a good business model long term?


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## UberHammer

Even if it works, customers hate it.

Companies don't last doing things customers hate.


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## Permai Lindal

Surge makes driving for Uber worthwhile.


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## BlkGeep

I feel great about getting a fair rate. Customers love our service completely, they would beperfectly willing to pay near cab rates, even with high surge they get a premium service for about what they would have paid a cab driven by Alibaba. Sound like a commie putting down the free market, advising us surge is bad, spoiled rich ****s aren't paying shit for the regular service, and surge ain't exactly bankrupting them, it surges for hours, I get surge all weekend, not even brought up as a conversation anymore. You want to go home from the bar in Phoenix without getting a DUI, be prepared to pay extra, traffic is busier, crowds are worse, there is more at risk for me to be working during those times, risk = reward. Surge isn't some sort of bonus, it motivates me to come to the busy bar scene and deal with the headaches associated with picking up in high density areas, otherwise why would anyone work events, late nights, or the college/bar scene. Your ******ed.


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## uber_sea

I'd much rather see a permanent rate increase rather than random surges.


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## Superunknown

uber_sea said:


> I'd much rather see a permanent rate increase rather than random surges.


This is exactly how I feel. Quite a few pax have told me straight up they'd be more than happy to pay as much as they would for a cab or even a bit more in exchange for the far shorter wait times, nicer vehicles and superior service they get from Uber.

My take on surge pricing is it's little more than a ploy to trick more drivers to get online, thus cutting down on the rider wait times.


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## UberHammer

Instead of using surge to bring drivers to an area where demand exceeds supply, just have a system where the rate is flat but the rider pays for both their trip and the trip the driver had to take to get to them. If someone is pinging me 25 minutes away, it's now just as lucrative to me as one 2 minutes away... maybe even more so.


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## BlkGeep

And add tips.  

Keep dreaming.


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## uber_sea

BlkGeep said:


> And add tips.
> 
> Keep dreaming.


I've given up on the tips option. That feature has been suggested by thousands of drivers and uber simply doesn't give a ****.
As matter of fact, I've pretty much given up on uber. As soon as these guarantees run out I am done.

I've come to acceptance that I felt into the uber trap and took some equity out of my car to pay my bills.


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## BlkGeep

Put this in perspective for you, I work very few hours, but they are all drunk idiots going home from the bar or club scene. I'm doing this ten months now and there are tricks to staying profitable. But mainly I'm doing the dirty work, I should get paid more than some day driver who sits it the burbs. Anyways, I worked 9.5 hours last week, 4.91 rating for the week, pay out was 525. No guarantee money, all surge, most over 3x. But lots of headaches, sitting in lines waiting to pickup, loud obnoxious rich kids, lots of grin and bare it. If it wasn't surging I wouldn't go out, there would be no incentive. I can stay busy at the regular rate any time of day.


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## Uberamstel

I see the surge partly as a springloading mechanism.

Many drivers chase surging hotspots and many riders will push the 'notify me when surge ends' button.

So drivers head towards the high demand zone, riders who are in a hurry or don't care about paying extra get their ride at extra cost, riders who wait for the surge to end find there are enough drivers nearby because the red map lured them there and they get their ride quickly and at normal cost


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## Yarrick

It seems to me that the only option left for drivers is to push passengers into trying lyft on their next ride, that way when the surge has ended you can switch apps and pick up customers at a better rate. Lyft needs to increase their pickup area range, at least in my area and then they could compete with Uber here.


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## BlkGeep

Lyft will save us! Yeah right.


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## Uber Math Professor

BlkGeep said:


> Put this in perspective for you, I work very few hours, but they are all drunk idiots going home from the bar or club scene. I'm doing this ten months now and there are tricks to staying profitable. But mainly I'm doing the dirty work, I should get paid more than some day driver who sits it the burbs. Anyways, I worked 9.5 hours last week, 4.91 rating for the week, pay out was 525. No guarantee money, all surge, most over 3x. But lots of headaches, sitting in lines waiting to pickup, loud obnoxious rich kids, lots of grin and bare it. If it wasn't surging I wouldn't go out, there would be no incentive. I can stay busy at the regular rate any time of day.


Dude, you do understand and that if it is always "surging" like it is lately, that's no longer even a surge, it's just the actual "price"

Uber should just charge more. Back when rates wet $1.20 a mile or $1.50 I never heard pax complaining about rates being too high

Look at this


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## Yarrick

It really shows a lack of knowledge about customer satisfaction and marketing from Uber, after all they are a very young company. If you advertise a price of 1.00 and have a surge of 1.5 and then charge 1.50 people will complain... if you have a normal charge of 1.50 no one would complain. It is the "surge alert" that makes the customer price sensitive as they feel they are paying more than they should. Like someone said earlier in the thread, if you continue to abuse your customers then they will look for another service, as for drivers they could care less about us, their are plenty of suckers that will be lured by the idea of "easy money" and drive for them.


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## BlkGeep

Cha-ching!


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## elgreco

This is the first time that l work for a company that is so unfair to its employees AND to its customers. I am wondering if a strike will shake them up a bit. But it has to be done all over USA, on the same date(s).


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## Guest

elgreco said:


> This is the first time that l work for a company that is so unfair to its employees AND to its customers. I am wondering if a strike will shake them up a bit. But it has to be done all over USA, on the same date(s).


"Occupy Uber"


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## UberBro

I love surge pricing as a concept, it makes sense to me. In the driver's perspective, it gives you the incentive be more likely to pick up the passenger and work more in general during those times. But I believe that it should be capped off to a certain extent, say around 4.0X. But even then, I would rather have the old pre-May 2014 rates back. 

With the rates we have now, I am an advocate of the surge. If you're more than 5 minutes away and surge isn't in effect, expect the cancel.


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## Uberdawg

UberHammer said:


> Instead of using surge to bring drivers to an area where demand exceeds supply, just have a system where the rate is flat but the rider pays for both their trip and the trip the driver had to take to get to them. If someone is pinging me 25 minutes away, it's now just as lucrative to me as one 2 minutes away... maybe even more so.


I just had an XL ping that showed 18 minutes. I dropped these guys off earlier so I knew it was more like 25 to get to them. Would have been about a $22 XL fare. Let that baby slide on through to the next guy. Nice pax, but they may be stuck there.


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## Uberdawg

UberBro said:


> I love surge pricing as a concept, it makes sense to me. In the driver's perspective, it gives you the incentive be more likely to pick up the passenger and work more in general during those times. But I believe that it should be capped off to a certain extent, say around 4.0X. But even then, I would rather have the old pre-May 2014 rates back.
> 
> With the rates we have now, I am an advocate of the surge. If you're more than 5 minutes away and surge isn't in effect, expect the cancel.


If there were decent rates, I would be out there right now, surge or no surge. Instead, I am sitting at home playing on the internet.

With a good ROI, there would be more drivers out reducing the need for surge and everybody's pay would end up close anyway because you could make decent money at slower times of the day.


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## Bob Smith

i love it, every ride should be x2 normally, and when they isnt enough drivers it should be 3.5


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