# Idle thoughts re: the new pay structure



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I read an article recently about how Uber might react if we were employees instead of independent contractors; specifically how would we be paid.

And although it hasn’t hit my market yet, I’m thinking about the new pay structure that favors time over miles

I’m thinking that they could pay an hourly wage and supply us with cars, or just compensate us for using our own cars. I think a fair compensation rate would be the irs standard deduction number (this year 54.5 cents per mile) Adn regarding wages let’s say $15 /hr


From what I read here the new compensation rates are between 60 and 70 cents a mile and between 20 and 25 cents a minute 

25 cents a min is $15 an hour
And 60 cents a mile, not much more than the irs standard deduction


So my thought is that Uber is preparing to consider us employees, just in case the courts rule against them


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

$0.25 a min for $15 an hour is only $15 an hour if you have a pax in your car for 60 whole minutes of that hour. That rarely happens regardless of your market. Now if they paid $0.25 a min while online, that'd be great but how would they prevent people from just being online for 3 hours without getting a single request? I know I could probably go online for 3 hours before end of business on an average afternoon and not get a request at all.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> $0.25 a min for $15 an hour is only $15 an hour if you have a pax in your car for 60 whole minutes of that hour. That rarely happens regardless of your market. Now if they paid $0.25 a min while online, that'd be great but how would they prevent people from just being online for 3 hours without getting a single request? I know I could probably go online for 3 hours before end of business on an average afternoon and not get a request at all.


I started to add an additional paragraph to my post saying, "now all that's left is to figure out how to handle dead miles and wait time"

I havent thought that far ahead but if we are employees they can tell us what hours to work and where to stage so as to maximize the minutes per hour with passengers. Instead of a goal of minimum wait time for passengers they would try to maximize passenger paid miles


----------



## Frank (from Atlanta) (Dec 4, 2018)

I like having trash in my car the least amount of time possible

Usually 5 of 12 hours occupied per shift with pax while driving nights

They better not bring that BS to me.

I would have to have scum in my car 8 or 9 hours of the shift to make the same

I want less pax contact not more


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

oldfart said:


> 25 cents a min is $15 an hour


And the new Miami rate of $0.13/minute is $7.80 per hour.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

JimKE said:


> And the new Miami rate of $0.13/minute is $7.80 per hour.


 and Florida's minimum wage is $8.25



Frank (from Atlanta) said:


> I like having trash in my car the least amount of time possible
> 
> Usually 5 of 12 hours occupied per shift with pax while driving nights
> 
> ...


I dont get it either, Im with you the fewer rides the better
but there are folks here that would rather be employees than independent contractors. and measure their success on a per hour basis. 
If Uber was forced to make us employees it would make sense (for Uber) to minimize wait time, and always have passengers in our cars.


----------



## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

If they gave us $15/hour they can lower mileage rates and take away the time rates for themselves.

But I will need a badge on every ride God Dan it lol


----------



## Frank (from Atlanta) (Dec 4, 2018)

Most of the rates in new cities makes it about 0.60 per mile and around .25 per minute

Its basically minimum wage plus mileage reimbursement while driving

If drivers are oversaturated even more the rides will be so few and far between they will be able to argue you should not consider wait time and working time when we all know that it is part of your work time if you work long shifts especially if you have to drive into bigger cities


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

NY City 
The city's Taxi and Limousine Commission approved the rules that will establish a per-minute and per-mile payment formula for Uber, Lyft, Via and Gett. The formula is supposed to result in drivers earning $17.22 an hour. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/nyc-taxi-board-sets-minimum-pay-app-based-drivers-n943801


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

wallae said:


> NY City
> The city's Taxi and Limousine Commission approved the rules that will establish a per-minute and per-mile payment formula for Uber, Lyft, Via and Gett. The formula is supposed to result in drivers earning $17.22 an hour. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/nyc-taxi-board-sets-minimum-pay-app-based-drivers-n943801


What are those rates, I don't see it in the story you linked to



Frank (from Atlanta) said:


> Most of the rates in new cities makes it about 0.60 per mile and around .25 per minute
> 
> Its basically minimum wage plus mileage reimbursement while driving
> 
> If drivers are oversaturated even more the rides will be so few and far between they will be able to argue you should not consider wait time and working time when we all know that it is part of your work time if you work long shifts especially if you have to drive into bigger cities


I think it would have to go the other way, fewer drivers and longer wait times to insure that we are always with a passengee


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Maybe Uber will follow the taxi companies all the way and charge us, say, $100 for the privilege of working a 12 hour shift, in which we keep 100% of the income. 2,000 drivers per shift x $100 per driver = good money, even if there are zero rides.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Mista T said:


> Maybe Uber will follow the taxi companies all the way and charge us, say, $100 for the privilege of working a 12 hour shift, in which we keep 100% of the income. 2,000 drivers per shift x $100 per driver = good money, even if there are zero rides.


I think they call that a "dispatch fee". I don't know what the fee should be; but I like the idea of paying for the use of the app and then truly becoming an independent contractor rather than moving closer and closer to employee status


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

oldfart said:


> From what I read here the new compensation rates are between 60 and 70 cents a mile and between 20 and 25 cents a minute
> 
> 25 cents a min is $15 an hour
> And 60 cents a mile, not much more than the irs standard deduction
> ...


Not even close. Don't forget that Uber's rates only apply when a pax is in your vehicle which is about 40% of the time. So they're really only willing to pay $6/hr and $.28/mile.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Not even close. Don't forget that Uber's rates only apply when a pax is in your vehicle which is about 40% of the time. So they're really only willing to pay $6/hr and $.28/mile.


Actually Uber is sayingthey are changing the rate structure to put greater emphasis on our time. But the intent is that we will earn pretty much the same as we used too

My thought is that there is more to it than that. I think it's more than coincidental that at the same time they have to come up with a formula that equates to $15 an hour in New York they come up with this new rate structure in other markets too

I think they are preparing for similar regulation nationwide

Of course this doesn't mean that we will make $15 an hour . I think I made the point that all that's they would still need figure out how to handle dead miles and wait time


----------



## Matty760 (Nov 9, 2015)

oldfart said:


> Actually Uber is sayingthey are changing the rate structure to put greater emphasis on our time. But the intent is that we will earn pretty much the same as we used too
> 
> My thought is that there is more to it than that. I think it's more than coincidental that at the same time they have to come up with a formula that equates to $15 an hour in New York they come up with this new rate structure in other markets too
> 
> ...


$15 a hour is still very cheap considering we use our own car... drivers need to look at this as business and start thinking about making money.... Black service charges roughly $65 a hour for a sedan for up to 3 people and then around $90 a hour for a SUV for 4-6 people. Uber X is definitely not black car service which is why theres Uber black etc... so going off of that id Say Uber X should be around $45 a hour and SUV around $75 a hour. pay 55 cents a mile as well for tax purposed and you are all set. problem solved


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Matty760 said:


> $15 a hour is still very cheap considering we use our own car... drivers need to look at this as business and start thinking about making money.... Black service charges roughly $65 a hour for a sedan for up to 3 people and then around $90 a hour for a SUV for 4-6 people. Uber X is definitely not black car service which is why theres Uber black etc... so going off of that id Say Uber X should be around $45 a hour and SUV around $75 a hour. pay 55 cents a mile as well for tax purposed and you are all set. problem solved


I've read a little about the New York regulations and they have required Uber to come up with a rate there that results in a net $15/ hour. They have included a factor for dead miles and wait time

I'm not saying that the new rates being introduced in other cities is doing the same thing, only that they seem to be moving in that direction


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Actually Uber is sayingthey are changing the rate structure to put greater emphasis on our time. But the intent is that we will earn pretty much the same as we used too


Depends on what and how you drive. In Miami, the change only affected X pay rates; XL was unchanged.

If you're driving X, the new rates will probably hurt you a little specifically because you drive a lot of airport runs. The longer the ride, the less attractive the pay, especially if a lot of the ride is on an expressway.


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

JimKE said:


> Depends on what and how you drive. In Miami, the change only affected X pay rates; XL was unchanged.
> 
> If you're driving X, the new rates will probably hurt you a little specifically because you drive a lot of airport runs. The longer the ride, the less attractive the pay, especially if a lot of the ride is on an expressway.


I drive both x and xl. But due to my impatient nature I do more x rides than XL And I play for the i-75 runs. In spite of that and Although i haven't done an exhaustive study I believe that I spend more time doing low speed driving than high speed. So if/when new rates come here I'm betting that my income doesn't change a bit

We'll see, I'm on a month plus vacation now that's coming to an end next week. I'll get back to work but keep better records than I have been


----------



## dryverjohn (Jun 3, 2018)

The idea of an employee scares the hell out of Uber and Lyft. The attempts for the ride share drivers to join the Teamsters to form a union of ride share drivers has been in the courts because of the IC status. The moment a shift is made to w-2, ride share drivers would be able to form a union, start collective bargaining and enjoy more job security. Uber doesn't want this at all, and is fighting it tooth and nail. Read up on Seattle battle, it's been going on for years.

Not all cities enjoy the $.25 per min, in Charlotte we get .107, rounded up to $.11 which means time is a joke, we long haul all rides or only surge if we want to try and make any income.


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

I get .09 a minute. We have a huge campus with speed bumps every 100 feet.
I decline all but surge over 1.5. Sometimes 1.7 it the traffic is bad. 
27% was my latest acceptance rate. When I decline 10-20 rides in a night it has to hurt somebody.
I still make my 100 bucks at 22 an hour so its not me


----------



## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

It is an interesting theory, I will admit. With Uber, one always must look for the ulterior motives. Personally, I think it is simpler. Everything Uber has done since Dara has taken over has been to nickle and dime drivers and riders from all angles - a few cents here, a few dollars there - most likely in preparation for the IPO. Essentially squeezing every (and I do mean every) drop of juice from the fruit, even if it is foolish in the long game. We'll have to see how it plays out.


----------



## OmahaVW (Mar 17, 2019)

JimKE said:


> Depends on what and how you drive. In Miami, the change only affected X pay rates; XL was unchanged.
> 
> If you're driving X, the new rates will probably hurt you a little specifically because you drive a lot of airport runs. The longer the ride, the less attractive the pay, especially if a lot of the ride is on an expressway.


Like this one.


----------

