# How about starting a thread on Buisness Development?



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

many of us are changed with the financial aspects associated with wage earnings and the cost associated with opperating a gig workers buisness.

to the moderators how about starting a new thread for business development?

tools and strategies to enhance incomes and buisness performance


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> many of us are changed with the financial aspects associated with wage earnings and the cost associated with opperating a gig workers buisness.
> 
> to the moderators how about starting a new thread for business development?
> 
> tools and strategies to enhance incomes and buisness performance


how many threads are you going to start or comment on with a breakdown of driver's costs? i've not responded until now because they are so redundant, but let me point out that everyone's costs are different. 

fuel prices vary around the nation and cars vary in fuel economy

depreciation varies depending on the vehicle, and most importantly, how many miles it will go. for example, a honda accord can easily be driven 300k and maybe 400k if you are gentle with it and do all the maintenance as you should. so my depreciation per mile is a lot lower than someone driving a vehicle that is either more expensive, or doesn't last as long.

just wanted to throw those two things out there for you. 

also forum advice: ONE thread with an ongoing discussion of costs would be good. it's not necessary to comment and post the same information all over the place, and most people will start to ignore you (either by pressing the button or by scrolling on by without reading).

good luck. i think you have a solid idea, we should all be aware of our costs, specifically.


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

also, maintenance costs vary widely depending on the type of car and how you drive it.

VW jetta (frequent repairs, expensive parts) - and a nut job driving it and doing jackrabbit starts etc... high maintenance/repair costs

Honda or Toyota (rare repairs, cheap parts) - and a gentle driver - lower maintenance/repair costs.

it's definitely something we all need to wrap our heads around if we want to make a profit and have an accurate idea of our costs


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> how many threads are you going to start or comment on with a breakdown of driver's costs? i've not responded until now because they are so redundant, but let me point out that everyone's costs are different.
> 
> fuel prices vary around the nation and cars vary in fuel economy
> 
> ...


So fuel cost can vary and miles of service are specific to the cost of vehicle operations.


The most common aspect here is with wage earnings!

wage earnings are most specific to the cost of a living and not overhead cost.

for example a hourly Income of $35.00 an hour is fairly consistent for most markets. 

Like you offered your vehicle cost can vary.


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> So fuel cost can vary and miles of service are specific to the cost of vehicle operations.
> 
> 
> The most common aspect here is with wage earnings!
> ...


This is not an hourly job. It's a sole proprietorship.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> This is not an hourly job. It's a sole proprietorship.


Still the fact remains one needs to calculate the value of one’s labor value.

Let’s say one sets a salary of $5,500.00 a month for owners salary and taxes



a big mistake many buisness owners make is profit. Profit is the earnings after all cost and goods are paid for including the owners salary and


Ted Fink said:


> This is not an hourly job. It's a sole proprietorship.
> 
> I disagree the efforts of your sales is a basis of your labor efforts.
> 
> ...


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> Still the fact remains one needs to calculate the value of one’s labor value.
> 
> Let’s say one sets a salary of $5,500.00 a month for owners salary and taxes
> 
> ...


This is a problem for a lot of self -employed drivers they are not capturing their wage and expenses needs and may be undercharging for their services?
Respectfully offers


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

yea, i get what you're saying. decide what one's time is worth and see if uber (or anything else) fits. it does for me. but i'm a unicorn in many many ways.


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

If I have $50 in the bank , a roof over my head 
and enough for a 6 pk of mac and cheese 
at the end of a year I consider that a profit..


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> yea, i get what you're saying. decide what one's time is worth and see if uber (or anything else) fits. it does for me. but i'm a unicorn in many many ways.


hey ..one of the best aspects with a forum like this is we get to share our ideas and struggles. 
If what I offers helps others then I helped someone.

good stuff here!


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> If I have $50 in the bank , a roof over my head
> and enough for a 6 pk of mac and cheese
> at the end of a year I consider that a profit..


Good for you!


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> hey ..one of the best aspects with a forum like this is we get to share our ideas and struggles.
> If what I offers helps others then I helped someone.
> 
> good stuff here!


An old timer helped me out when I was young.
I asked him what I owed him.
He replied just pass what I gave you on to others..


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> Still the fact remains one needs to calculate the value of one’s labor value.


Makes no sense.

From a Managerial Accounting or Cost Accounting perspective you are not actually paying yourself and your labor is irrelevant to the cost of the vehicle from any FASBI accounting standard. You can keep repeating it over and over and you can shout it, yell it, or insult people if you choose but it makes zero accounting sense.

The only Value in doing your suggestion is to see if your results are paying you the amount you expect to make. There is no accounting basis for this to continue to harp on your labor rate and try to introduce it in a cost and profitability discussion.

Try expensing your self determined labor rate on your schedule C. Let us no how that works out.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Ted Fink said:


> depreciation varies depending on the vehicle, and most importantly, how many miles it will go.


There is a difference obviously in taxes and however you want to make your own cost analysis. But, just as an fyi, if you use the standard mileage deduction, for 2022 The IRS considers 26 cents (of your 58.5 cents) depreciation, not relevant to the lifespan of the vehicle. Therefore, it can easily happen that you wrote off more depreciation than the actual value of the vehicle. This is where depreciation re-capture comes into play on your schedule C if you SELL the car when your done with it.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Seamus said:


> Makes no sense.
> 
> From a Managerial Accounting or Cost Accounting perspective you are not actually paying yourself and your labor is irrelevant to the cost of the vehicle from any FASBI accounting standard. You can keep repeating it over and over and you can shout it, yell it, or insult people if you choose but it makes zero accounting sense.
> 
> ...


The old rules of accounting (LOL)

I have been an a employer for years so when I analyze direct labor cost (labor provided service industry) labor cost includes: wages benifits - employers contribute to payroll liabilities.

I would record job cost for labor cost as such for labor:

1 gross employees earnings
2 workman’s comp.
3 FICA employees portion
4 SUTA
5 FUTA
6 labor portion of liability insurance

So let set my labor cost as a driver for my own company (I am the only employee in this condition)

annualized gross labor sales

A) My gross labor cost (lines) (1-6) above = ($65,000.00)
B) General
overhead = ($3,500.00)
C) Profit = $5,000.00 (6.8%) of labor sales
D) Gross labor sales = $73,500.00

Hourly invoice rate = line (D) = $73,500.00 / (billable hrs) =(

Direct job expenses (Vehicle) x ($.585) federal rate.

to be clear I never intentional insulted anyone.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Seamus said:


> There is a difference obviously in taxes and however you want to make your own cost analysis. But, just as an fyi, if you use the standard mileage deduction, for 2022 The IRS considers 26 cents (of your 58.5 cents) depreciation, not relevant to the lifespan of the vehicle. Therefore, it can easily happen that you wrote off more depreciation than the actual value of the vehicle. This is where depreciation re-capture comes into play on your schedule C if you SELL the car when your done with it.


By


TM6.5 said:


> The old rules of accounting (LOL)
> 
> I have been an a employer for years so when I analyze direct labor cost (labor provided service industry) labor cost includes: wages benifits - employers contribute to payroll liabilities.
> 
> ...


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> The old rules of accounting (LOL)
> 
> I have been an a employer for years so when I analyze direct labor cost (labor provided service industry) labor cost includes: wages benifits - employers contribute to payroll liabilities.
> 
> ...


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Seamus said:


> There is a difference obviously in taxes and however you want to make your own cost analysis. But, just as an fyi, if you use the standard mileage deduction, for 2022 The IRS considers 26 cents (of your 58.5 cents) depreciation, not relevant to the lifespan of the vehicle. Therefore, it can easily happen that you wrote off more depreciation than the actual value of the vehicle. This is where depreciation re-capture comes into play on your schedule C if you SELL the car when your done with it.


Geat point!


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> The old rules of accounting (LOL)
> 
> I have been an a employer for years so when I analyze direct labor cost (labor provided service industry) labor cost includes: wages benifits - employers contribute to payroll liabilities.
> 
> ...


I understand what you are getting at however it is irrelevant for 99.9% of us who are sole proprietors or LLCs. For what you are espousing to be relevant or useful then you would have to go file as a C or S Corporation and pay your self a W-2 salary rate at whatever rate you want. Then you may have some relevance to corporate profit or loss analysis.

However if you are a sole proprietor then you are simply keeping whatever cash you want from your gross revenue and (hopefully saving some for your expenses) or relevant to your taxable income. Those are the results of your labor in this circumstance. So when sole proprietors are trying to determine their profitability, hourly labor rates Play no useful part in that equation. It really is as simple as that.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> By





Seamus said:


> I understand what you are getting at however it is irrelevant for 99.9% of us who are sole proprietors or LLCs. For what you are espousing to be relevant or useful then you would have to go file as a C or S Corporation and pay your self a W-2 salary rate at whatever rate you want. Then you may have some relevance to corporate profit or loss analysis.
> 
> However if you are a sole proprietor then you are simply keeping whatever cash you want from your gross revenue and (hopefully saving some for your expenses) or relevant to your taxable income. Those are the results of your labor in this circumstance. So when sole proprietors are trying to determine their profitability, hourly labor rates Play no useful part in that equation. It really is as simple as that.


I politely beg to differ.

I just had my mini split (HVAC) serviced at my home. The service provider is an acquaintance of mine. (He is a sole proprietor)

This business model is very similar to a sole proprietor taxi service other than there are no materials provided.

his invoice statement has a summary of (4) line items:
1) his hourly charges (wages - benefits- payroll liabilities)
2) materials
3) his vehicle miles charge (port to port)
4) overhead and profit (his profit) portion stand alone (5%) mark up on all line items.

his invoice algorithm is based on these invoice statement items and charges

he mentioned that his software program is integrated with quick books and tracks vehicle expenses in the vehicle cost account.

He mentioned that he uses Kelly blue book to calculate his vehicle “physical depreciation” per mile cost.

If you allocate sole proprietors gross earnings- overhead and profit as such your can arrive at your (hourly) invoice
rate. (Direct vehicle cost being the variable here) per mile.

After all what we are selling here is our (time) plus the cost of operating a vehicle.

budget summary for a sole proprietor:
1 retirement salary allocation = $4,000.00
2 health care salary allocation = $4,800.00
3 base salary= $42,000.00
4 add for self-employee addition (FICA) =$3,900.00
5 Total sole proprietors gross annualized earnings = $54,700.00
6 Add general overhead expense =
7 Add vehicle expense =
8 Add profit = $5,000.00
9 Total gross sales =

10 hourly invoice rate = line (9) / (billable) hours = (hourly) rate

my account charges me by the hour plus vehicle mileage charges if applicable.


----------



## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Ted Fink said:


> also, maintenance costs vary widely depending on the type of car and how you drive it.
> 
> VW jetta (frequent repairs, expensive parts) - and a nut job driving it and doing jackrabbit starts etc... high maintenance/repair costs
> 
> ...


yes ted dodge caravan conversion...haha warrantee on it..my highlander is good..but dont use it...
dodges are not toyota's or honda. but for a wav van most affordable..yaaaaaaaaaaaa i got the GT ...like a gt yugo


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

bobby747 said:


> yes ted dodge caravan conversion...haha warrantee on it..my highlander is good..but dont use it...
> dodges are not toyota's or honda. but for a wav van most affordable..yaaaaaaaaaaaa i got the GT ...like a gt yugo


Try this to calculate your vehicle physical depreciation per mile.

1 go to Kelly blue book.
2 enter you vehicle information with (current miles) get this data
3 next enter the same data but add let’s say (100,000) more miles 
4 compare both values and divide the delta by (100,000) miles in this example (This will offer you a good perspective of the physical depreciation cost per mile)

please share your findings specific to your vehicle.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> I politely beg to differ.
> 
> I just had my mini split (HVAC) serviced at my home. The service provider is an acquaintance of mine. (He is a sole proprietor)
> 
> ...


I agree with your sole proprietor HVAC repair charging you a labor rate.(SOP)

The difference is he is using his (labor rate) to Invoice you. App workers are not invoicing anyone. Now if you were a private hire that would be different, you would then be invoicing a private customer and determining the charge. 

Rideshare/Delivery app drivers are entirely different. We do not invoice the customer nor do we calculate what they will be charged. We also don't collect the fee or process the payment. See the difference?

Again, for a Gig worker, it is pointless to determine your labor rate. What benefit does it give you if you're not determining what the customer will be charged? What benefit does it give you in your cost analysis if you're not paying yourself based on that rate? Everything you said is valid in other business applications, doesn't have any application to Gig work.

The day DD/GH/Uber/Lyft etc. etc. let YOU determine what the customer pays to YOU then your application is valid. Until then labor rate establishment is of no value.

Also, as a single proprietor or SP LLC your "labor rate' plays no part in your Business Income/Loss. Take a look at a schedule C. Line 26 is WAGES, but that is what is paid to OTHERS, not yourself. So if your HVAC friend is a non corporation he is using his labor rate to determine what you are _charged_ and it has no bearing on his business income/loss on his schedule C

If you want your labor rate to go against your income/loss you would have to incorporate and pay yourself a W2 wage. If you incorporate, then you do not use schedule C and file your personal and corporate taxes entirely separately.

This has become just beating a dead horse so it's my last attempt to clarify for you why the labor rate is irrelevant in _our_ situation.

Best Regards.


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

@Seamus I agree with your comments above. I think possibly @TM6.5 's way of looking at this could be useful to him, in figuring all that out he can compare what he is earning to what he would charge if he could indeed set the rates himself. So he can answer the question for himself of "am I being paid reasonably compared to what I would bill for such service if I was independent". 

Also, hourly rates ARE important to all of us, based on our value on our time. He/She has just done a lot more math to determine what value He/She places on their time.

@TM6.5 ... I wholeheartedly agree with your method of calculating depreciation, by using book value for X miles and X + 100000. (or 10000, or whatever factor one chooses). It gives one a good idea of how much less the vehicle will be worth after adding whatever number of miles. Not perfect but a relatively quick and dirty way of getting a reasonable estimate.


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> for example a hourly Income of $35.00 an hour is fairly consistent for most markets.


I emphatically disagree. A very small percentage of rideshare drivers are making 35/hr gross. I'm one of them. But I'm in a market with high rates and bonuses and I only drive peak times. And my market is a tight 10 mile radius from the center of town. I would suspect that the overwhelming majority of drivers have lower rates, and many drivers drive full time which would include many non-peak or non-bonus hours. And most markets can throw rides that are most certainly more than 10 miles away from the center of where you want to be.

$35/hr might be a good comparison to what someone might have on a job, if they have a skill or experience or a degree (I.E. professional, non-entry-level job)... but how many drivers are in that situation and can get that type of job? Some, sure. Not me. I have an Associates Degree and my "professional" job pays me about $27 an hour... gross. ($54000 per year). And I consider myself fortunate, compared to whats available in this area. Other areas may vary. California employees may enjoy higher rates because employers have to pay enough to make it attractive to hire them, in light of the higher cost of living in that state. 

It's definitely a complex equation. I do think @Seamus is right though... the type of comparison you're making isn't really that relevant for a lot of us. But it does make sense and helps you (and any other like minded individuals) to compare gig work to what they might bill as an independent contractor and/or what they might earn on a job.

One more note - people who do rideshare as a side gig aren't comparing it to full-time work in a profession. Because like me, they are still doing that work too.

For me... I look at gross $/hr and compare to my job just as a mental way of feeling like I'm earning what my time is worth (to me)... and I look even more at $/mile because it costs to drive miles and I want to make sure I'm making a profit!


----------



## 101Uber (May 18, 2021)

TM6.5 said:


> many of us are changed with the financial aspects associated with wage earnings and the cost associated with opperating a gig workers buisness.
> 
> to the moderators how about starting a new thread for business development?
> 
> tools and strategies to enhance incomes and buisness performance


Start by developing a spelling solution!


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Seamus said:


> I agree with your sole proprietor HVAC repair charging you a labor rate.(SOP)
> 
> The difference is he is using his (labor rate) to Invoice you. App workers are not invoicing anyone. Now if you were a private hire that would be different, you would then be invoicing a private customer and determining the charge.
> 
> ...


A gig workers income hourly earnings are no difference than a W-2 employee.

Other than a gig worker has to apply the additional cost of (FICA) as self-employed additional taxes.

an “app worker” still has the basis of wage and salary income needs most similar.

This goes to the most simplest aspect associated with personal income earnings needs and financial literacy 

Reflecting back to my high school business and economics class study:

The income requirements to earn a living.

1) retirement = $4,000.00
2) health care allocation = $4,800.00
3) base salary $42,000.00
4) self -employment FICA = $3,900.00
5) gross annualized earnings =$57,000.00 as a gig wor

Gig workers overhead expenses 

6) add overhead expenses =
7) add vehicle expenses = 
8) add profit =

You are pushing back hard here?
If find this very interesting are you with us or against us?


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> I emphatically disagree. A very small percentage of rideshare drivers are making 35/hr gross. I'm one of them. But I'm in a market with high rates and bonuses and I only drive peak times. And my market is a tight 10 mile radius from the center of town. I would suspect that the overwhelming majority of drivers have lower rates, and many drivers drive full time which would include many non-peak or non-bonus hours. And most markets can throw rides that are most certainly more than 10 miles away from the center of where you want to be.
> 
> $35/hr might be a good comparison to what someone might have on a job, if they have a skill or experience or a degree (I.E. professional, non-entry-level job)... but how many drivers are in that situation and can get that type of job? Some, sure. Not me. I have an Associates Degree and my "professional" job pays me about $27 an hour... gross. ($54000 per year). And I consider myself fortunate, compared to whats available in this area. Other areas may vary. California employees may enjoy higher rates because employers have to pay enough to make it attractive to hire them, in light of the higher cost of living in that state.
> 
> ...


Anything above burdened wages and overhead is a profit


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> I emphatically disagree. A very small percentage of rideshare drivers are making 35/hr gross. I'm one of them. But I'm in a market with high rates and bonuses and I only drive peak times. And my market is a tight 10 mile radius from the center of town. I would suspect that the overwhelming majority of drivers have lower rates, and many drivers drive full time which would include many non-peak or non-bonus hours. And most markets can throw rides that are most certainly more than 10 miles away from the center of where you want to be.
> 
> $35/hr might be a good comparison to what someone might have on a job, if they have a skill or experience or a degree (I.E. professional, non-entry-level job)... but how many drivers are in that situation and can get that type of job? Some, sure. Not me. I have an Associates Degree and my "professional" job pays me about $27 an hour... gross. ($54000 per year). And I consider myself fortunate, compared to whats available in this area. Other areas may vary. California employees may enjoy higher rates because employers have to pay enough to make it attractive to hire them, in light of the higher cost of living in that state.
> 
> ...


Good points ..you earn ($27.00) an hour as a W-2 employee and your employer pays (7.65%) of your FICA plus (Workman’s Compensation and FUTA and SUTA. (Total employer liabilities) = ($4.65)

Additional does your employer provide:
A) health care ? ($4.00) an hour
B) paid time off = (9%) =$2.45
C) fringe benefits per hour = ( $6.45)

hey brother the value of your time at your current job less overhead and profit = $38.00 an hour

I am going to call some bullshit here.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> Good points ..you earn ($27.00) an hour as a W-2 employee and your employer pays (7.65%) of your FICA plus (Workman’s Compensation and FUTA and SUTA. (Total employer liabilities) = ($4.65)
> 
> Additional does your employer provide:
> A) health care ? ($4.00) an hour
> ...


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> I am going to call some bullshit here.


Call yourself the first person I've ever put on ignore on this forum. Bye!


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> Call yourself the first person I've ever put on ignore on this forum. Bye!


I hate it when you get called out!


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> @Seamus I agree with your comments above. I think possibly @TM6.5 's way of looking at this could be useful to him, in figuring all that out he can compare what he is earning to what he would charge if he could indeed set the rates himself. So he can answer the question for himself of "am I being paid reasonably compared to what I would bill for such service if I was independent".
> 
> Also, hourly rates ARE important to all of us, based on our value on our time. He/She has just done a lot more math to determine what value He/She places on their time.
> 
> @TM6.5 ... I wholeheartedly agree with your method of calculating depreciation, by using book value for X miles and X + 100000. (or 10000, or whatever factor one chooses). It gives one a good idea of how much less the vehicle will be worth after adding whatever number of miles. Not perfect but a relatively quick and dirty way of getting a reasonable estimate.


Thanks ..there is a God after all


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> Wow this thread reads nice now that I removed a troll from view. I should do this more often!
> 
> If you have an opinion other than mine I respect it.
> 
> ...


----------



## Vagabond1 (9 mo ago)

Seamus said:


> Makes no sense.


I don't know what's supposed to constitute new and old rules of accounting, especially in terms of what the IRS allows and disallows, but as an accountant and having read the whole thread I'm just going to chime in here that Seamus is 100% correct on all points. I already said my piece on another thread about the rest of it.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Why are we setting ourselves up to fail.


Vagabond1 said:


> I don't know what's supposed to constitute new and old rules of accounting, especially in terms of what the IRS allows and disallows, but as an accountant and having read the whole thread I'm just going to chime in here that Seamus is 100% correct on all points. I already said my piece on another thread about the rest of it.


Ok .. smart guys.

we are trying to establish the value of one’s labor here. (Like everyone else we get paid by the hour) (my accountant and my plumber get paid and invoice by the hour.

If I work as (W-2) payroll employee for a company at ($27.00) (the employer provides the vehicle)

please share with us all the cost with my hourly income at ($27.00) associated with payroll liabilities as an employee.

This is not my first rodeo.

So take a stab at this…


----------



## Vagabond1 (9 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> Why are we setting ourselves up to fail.
> 
> 
> Ok .. smart guys.
> ...


No offense, but I'm not taking a stab at yet another problem that doesn't have enough information to solve it properly to prove I can do elementary school math. 

I'm sure you're a very nice person and I see you're new to the board, so probably the best thing I can say here as another very nice person is perhaps you're just trying too hard. Try some casual conversation for a while until people get to know you and what a great human being you are.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Is there any way to write off cocaine and hookers for business expense?


----------



## Vagabond1 (9 mo ago)

W00dbutcher said:


> Is there any way to write off cocaine and hookers for business expense?


Funny you should ask ... Retired I still do taxes for a number of my old business clients and some neighbors. Between the two they come up with some interesting scenarios. Here's a Facebook status from tax season. The short answer is, "sometimes."

==========


Tax lessons 2022.

1. No, $4,800 in escorts just for yourself in three days is impressive, but is not deductible as a business expense just because your business trip was to Las Vegas. It's entertainment of other people, not yourself. If you had shared them with your clients, I would definitely give you the expense. But no, you had to be greedy.

Next year get a receipt from the escort agency saying "Party of 5 - Entertainment," and then lie to me.

2. No, the cost of the marijuana for your part time effort is not deductible, as are none of your other related expenses, as it is still illegal to sell marijuana without a medical dispensary license even if you declare the income. Yes, you still have to declare the income, because while I applaud you for trying to elevate your craft and make it more like a real business, there's a reason most dealers only take cash. You taking credit cards puts all the money in your bank account attached to your Social Security number, and the credit card processor sent you a 1099. You now owe regular tax on all that income, and raised your tax bracket from 12% to 22% on all of it, plus 15.3% extra on the half that's weed for self-employment tax, effectively wiping out all the profit from your effort while maintaining all the risk.

Next year, open an online flower gardening supply store, and pay your supplier electronically, and then lie to me. Or, take cash only, and still lie to me.

Really people, just ask first. Keep it hypothetical. "So my cousin ... uh ... Joe ... he's thinking about ..."


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Why are we setting ourselves up to fail.


Vagabond1 said:


> I don't know what's supposed to constitute new and old rules of accounting, especially in terms of what the IRS allows and disallows, but as an accountant and having read the whole thread I'm just going to chime in here that Seamus is 100% correct on all points. I already said my piece on another thread about the rest of it.


Ok .. smart guys.

we are trying to establish the value of one’s labor here. (Like everyone else we get paid by the hour) (my accountant and my plumber bet paid and

If I work as (W-2) payroll employee for a company at ($27.00) (the employer provides the vehicle)

please share with us all the cost with my hourly income at ($27.00) associated with payroll liabilities as an employee.

This is not my first rodeo.

So take a stab at thisi


TM6.5 said:


> Why are we setting ourselves up to fail.
> 
> 
> Ok .. smart guys.
> ...





Vagabond1 said:


> Funny you should ask ... Retired I still do taxes for a number of my old business clients and some neighbors. Between the two they come up with some interesting scenarios. Here's a Facebook status from tax season:
> 
> ==========
> 
> ...


LOL . I just put together a budget for a $1,100,00 project for a friend. (I am retired) 
You take care .. thanks for your perspectives.


----------



## Vagabond1 (9 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> LOL . I just put together a budget for a $1,100,00 project for a friend. (I am retired)
> You take care .. thanks for your perspectives.


That reply you quoted from me was to Woodbutcher.

Congrats on your little side project. I think that's great. Stay busy.


----------



## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Your math blows on deprecation. My van was brought now 7k under book. My conversion was direct from factory by me. 
8 years I know my costs . I owe every year..translation. I earn a profit.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

bobby747 said:


> Your math blows on deprecation. My van was brought now 7k under book. My conversion was direct from factory by me.
> 8 years I know my costs . I owe every year..translation. I earn a profit.


 Try a blue book cost analysis plug in your miles as existing and then add miles to see the market rated adjustment as such.


----------



## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

wack job here


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

For shoots and giggles I did the Kelly blue book vehicle (physical) (not the tax world) depreciation method to get a cost per mile.

I used a 2018 Honda CRV and trade with the in value. @ (80,000) miles delta for this year and same vehicle speciations the cost was ($.125) per mile.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Ubers pricing structure is based on three components.

1) the divers time (gross income) in minutes
2) the drivers miles driven
3) total above = (75%)
4) Ubers brokerage fee (25%)

Let’s break this down across these metics.

Example: (15) minute ride:
1 drivers labor @ ($.75 a minute) x (15 minutes) = $11.25
2 Vehicle trip miles = (20) x ($.60) mile = $12.00
3 total drivers gross sale revenues = sum lines (1-2) = ($23.25)
4 Ubers booking fee gross profit = (25%) = ($5.81)
5 total fee less tip =($29.06)


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

You are living in the past. Ive been doing this four and a half years. I never enjoyed that 75/25 thing


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

The cost of a cell phone?
As a driver you need to have a phone and the app.
This is a capitalized expense @ let’s say $100.00 a month net.
The first $100.00 a month you earn goes towards a direct expense as such?

your cell phone is an overhead expense! Be sure to capture this expense as such.


----------



## Gman67 (Aug 19, 2021)

Where do you live that pays .75 per minute? In my market, the rates are .11 per minute and .57 per mile.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

oldfart said:


> You are living in the past. Ive been doing this four and a half years. I never enjoyed that 75/25 thing


hey old fart.

that is the pricing structure for Uber.

you get (75%) of the fee. Uber gets (25%) for booking fee.

this is how it works?


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

TM6.5 said:


> As a driver you need to have a phone and the app.
> 
> This is a capitalized expense @ let’s say $100.00 a month net.


Yet...


> your cell phone is an overhead expense! Be sure to capture this expense as such.


Huh?!? A cellphone is both a capitalized expense _and _an overhead?

No, it's not possible for the same expense to be both capitalized and an overhead. Why are you trying to play accountant and give financial and accounting advice when you're clearly not an accountant? I've seen several of your posts in which you do this, only serving to muddle things up completely.


> The first $100.00 a month you earn goes towards a direct expense as such?


This also makes no sense. Cell phone expense is an indirect cost, not a direct cost.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> total above = (75%)
> 4) Ubers brokerage fee (25%)


I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that You’re honestly trying to do a good thing. However it’s clear you don’t drive Rideshare. That isn’t close to being accurate, that was when Uber started years ago. There is no longer any fixed percentage and they sometimes take more than 60%. Also your per minute rate is waaaay off. No idea where your getting your information from but it is way off.

The highest rates for drivers are in very select markets like Seattle and NYC. In NYC Uber drivers must have commercial insurance and a NYC TLC license and get $1.504 per mile and 0.529 per minute and they only get that because the TLC sets the rate Uber must pay drivers. Outside of a very select few markets the rates drivers are paid are 30-40% of that.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> hey old fart.
> 
> that is the pricing structure for Uber.
> 
> ...


No, not at all how it works and hasn’t worked like that for many years.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Seamus said:


> I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that You’re honestly trying to do a good thing. However it’s clear you don’t drive Rideshare. That isn’t close to being accurate, that was when Uber started years ago. There is no longer any fixed percentage and they sometimes take more than 60%. Also your per minute rate is waaaay off. No idea where your getting your information from but it is way off.


Dude is trying to play accountant and offering advice, but none of the accounting analysis he does makes any sense, at all. 

Either he has no knowledge of accounting or he's trying to troll people. I think it's the latter.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Gman67 said:


> Where do you live that pays .75 per minute? In my market, the rates are .11 per minute and .57 per mile.


.11 per minute is freaking stupid!

there is no way $.11 per minute works out mathematically towards wages - benefits - taxes - overhead and profit! 

@ $40.00 an hour wages - benifits - overhead and profit =( $.67 per minute) (this is port to port) your home and back again.
@ $40.00 an hour wages - benifits - overhead and profit =( $.67 per minute) (this is port to port) your home and back again.

**** there is a big difference from (port to port) VS: (pick up to destination)

think about this?

Not all your time is billable.. as such one needs to apply an algorithm metric that adjusts as such.

the accounting guys are going to beat me up here.. (I can hardly wait)

As an example here:

let’s say you take the ping to take a (15) minute (destination ride). (Pick up to destination)
Your total (port to port) is obviously a lot farther and your time pick-up to destination.

somehow this needs adjusted in the algorithm.


Seamus said:


> I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that You’re honestly trying to do a good thing. However it’s clear you don’t drive Rideshare. That isn’t close to being accurate, that was when Uber started years ago. There is no longer any fixed percentage and they sometimes take more than 60%. Also your per minute rate is waaaay off. No idea where your getting your information from but it is way off.


Seriously?
you have got to be kidding me? (60%) margin?

This is a freaking crazy margin for a booking fee!

My gross mark up direct labor cogs was never more than (20)% (60%) is a red flag my friend. (My (20%) is a mark-up not margin 

My per mile rate is calculated on “gross revenues with overhead and profit income” per hour cost / 60 minutes . (I know how sensitive your are in the metric calculation)

($40.00 an hour / (60 minutes) = per minute =$.67 (this would be my minimum per mile needs as a gig driver plus vehicle expenses.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

elelegido said:


> Dude is trying to play accountant and offering advice, but none of the accounting analysis he does makes any sense, at all.
> 
> Either he has no knowledge of accounting or he's trying to troll people. I think it's the latter.


I am not an account nor do we need to be.

You can agree or disagree with my logic here.


----------



## Classical Telecaster (Dec 12, 2019)

RS or not, you put yourself at a disadvantage by relying on an employer for a phone. You need your own phone number. It keeps your private business private and in the event your relationship ends with the employer, you have a phone still. 

See if you can turn the phone in and negotiate a monthly allowance from the employer. Best of both worlds.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

elelegido said:


> Yet...Huh?!? A cellphone is both a capitalized expense _and _an overhead?
> 
> No, it's not possible for the same expense to be both capitalized and an overhead. Why are you trying to play accountant and give financial and accounting advice when you're clearly not an accountant? I've seen several of your posts in which you do this, only serving to muddle things up completely.
> This also makes no sense. Cell phone expense is an indirect cost, not a direct cost.


You sure have a bone out for me.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Classical Telecaster said:


> RS or not, you put yourself at a disadvantage by relying on an employer for a phone. You need your own phone number. It keeps your private business private and in the event your relationship ends with the employer, you have a phone still.
> 
> See if you can turn the phone in and negotiate a monthly allowance from the employer. Best of both worlds.


Well if you drive for a living you need one if not you do not.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)




----------



## Classical Telecaster (Dec 12, 2019)

TM6.5 said:


> Well if you drive for a living you need one if not you do not.


Really? Not trying to be argumentative, but pretty much everyone owns their phone whether they drive or not.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Classical Telecaster said:


> Really? Not trying to be argumentative, but pretty much everyone owns their phone whether they drive or not.


Ok, either way you need a revenue source to fund this expense.

I provided company phones for my employees.


----------



## Gman67 (Aug 19, 2021)

TM6.5 said:


> .11 per minute is freaking stupid!
> 
> there is no way $.11 per minute works out mathematically towards wages - benefits - taxes - overhead and profit!
> 
> ...


Freaking stupid or not, if you drive for Uber/Lyft in Knoxville, TN, that's what you're gonna make. It is what it is.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> I am not an account nor do we need to be.
> 
> You can agree or disagree with my logic here.





W00dbutcher said:


> View attachment 658842


I am only posting here for the entertainment factor.


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> Ubers pricing structure is based on three components.
> 
> 1) the divers time (gross income) in minutes
> 2) the drivers miles driven
> ...


not a lot of places you can drive 20 miles in 15 minutes. Unless you have one of those hooks like the old mail trains to pickup and drop off the person along along the autobahn


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Gman67 said:


> Freaking stupid or not, if you drive for Uber/Lyft in Knoxville, TN, that's what you're gonna make. It is what it is.


Like Carlin said, “The poor are there, just to scare the shit out of the middle class”.


New guy65 said:


> not a lot of places you can drive 20 miles in 15 minutes. Unless you have one of those hooks like the old mail trains to pickup and drop off the person along along the autobahn


I agree.

as such the flawed metics with the (minutes rates)

$40.00 an hour is $40.00 an hour. 

75 mph on the freeway is way faster than bumper to bumper traffic in Chicago.


----------



## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

If your employer is providing you with a cellphone, you better have it in writing from the that you can use it for RS, they may have data monitoring or caps. The trucking company I work, we use Samsung tablets on AT&T cell network for our electronic log book, each tablet has a specific data cap per month based on average, normal electronic log usage. We have a specific amount plus 15%, two of my coworkers installed games on their tablets and didn't tell anyone, three months in a row they ran us significantly over on our data caps. 

Also if your employer is providing you with a cellphone, and they are paying the bill, you cannot deduct any of the cost or usage of that phone on your taxes. Unless, they told you to buy the phone and they would reimburse you for the purchase, then you could possibly deduct the amount they don't reimburse, or they deduct some portion of the phone or it's usage from your paycheck.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> I am only posting here for the entertainment factor.











How to Calculate Hourly Rate: A Guide for the Self-Employed — Simply Business


Ever wonder how to calculate your hourly rate? Check out our guide for determining how much you should charge for your business’s services.




www.simplybusiness.com


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Good advice.

Disclaimer: I am not an accountant.










How to Calculate Hourly Rate: A Guide for the Self-Employed — Simply Business


Ever wonder how to calculate your hourly rate? Check out our guide for determining how much you should charge for your business’s services.




www.simplybusiness.com


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

elelegido said:


> Dude is trying to play accountant and offering advice, but none of the accounting analysis he does makes any sense, at all.
> 
> Either he has no knowledge of accounting or he's trying to troll people. I think it's the latter.


He is a thread creating machine !!!!
Too bad they are all kinda bullshit
He wont be taking anymore of my time...


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Gman67 said:


> Freaking stupid or not, if you drive for Uber/Lyft in Knoxville, TN, that's what you're gonna make. It is what it is.


$.11 a minute is $6.60 an hour?

This must be a typo?

My entry level labor position pays ($.44) a minute this is a my W-2 position. ($26.40) an hour. (0n payroll) 

I pay: FICA - FUTA - SUTA and workman’s comp. above this amount.

it cost me ($.52) a minute to employee this individual at costs


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> He is a thread creating machine !!!!
> Too bad they are all kinda bullshit
> He wont be taking anymore of my time...


My information can be taken with a grain of salt or used for discussion purposes.
Part of the information feed back loop.


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> Like Carlin said, “The poor are there, just to scare the shit out of the middle class”.
> 
> 
> I agree.
> ...


Sure. But 20 miles in 15 minutes for a trip is still 80mph on average. Also your number 4 calculation is dead wrong on what 25% actually for Ubers cut if it actually did work that way.

If your gonna sign up a few days earlier then try to tell people stuff at least get your numbers right.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New guy65 said:


> Sure. But 20 miles in 15 minutes for a trip is still 80mph on average. Also your number 4 calculation is dead wrong on what 25% actually for Ubers cut if it actually did work that way.
> 
> If your gonna sign up a few days earlier then try to tell people stuff at least get your numbers right.


I got Ubers brokerage fee off the internet.

so my bad?

I find it hard to believe it would be more than this?

If I marked up direct sub-contractor burdened cost by (25%) my clients would not hire me!

Different business model here but: 
It looks like the brokers service fee on the below invoice is ($1.34) or a (8%) mark up. I assuming the driver gets $5.99 for the small order fee and delivery?


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

W00dbutcher said:


> Is there any way to write off cocaine and hookers for business expense?


I think you need to be a CEO or super senior management at a big Corp to do that.....


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Gman67 said:


> Where do you live that pays .75 per minute? In my market, the rates are .11 per minute and .57 per mile.


How much is the base fare and minimum fare?


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I think you need to be a CEO or super senior management at a big Corp to do that.....


$40.00 an hour with your wages and benefits is hardly a great income?


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> I got Ubers brokerage fee off the internet.
> 
> so my bad?
> 
> ...


You assume a lot of stuff. The base for the driver is $2 plus surge if there is one plus the tip on Uber eats. In this case the driver might make $3.99 but it’s going to be a really long delivery. The service fee is 8% of the total but the food is only $9. So it’s closer to 15%. The small order fee goes to Uber. Uber also gets a cut of the total food bill from the restaurant.



Uber eats and rides work very differently. However Uber has a set fee per mile and time for the driver and hasn’t used the 25% for years. They charge whatever they think the market can bear. Sometimes they win big sometimes they lose. They also have incentives at times for the drivers that can pay substantially more. Ive had many weekends the promos and surges were 50% of my totaL compared to the base driver rate. That’s why drivers don’t do it when there is no surge or incentives to drive.

also your competitors don’t care what margin you make. They care about what you charge compared to your competitors.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New guy65 said:


> You assume a lot of stuff. The base for the driver is $2 plus surge if there is one plus the tip on Uber eats. In this case the driver might make $3.99 but it’s going to be a really long delivery. The service fee is 8% of the total but the food is only $9. So it’s closer to 15%. The small order fee goes to Uber. Uber also gets a cut of the total food bill from the restaurant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good explanation. So the (what is brokers fee) is not a (25%) mark-up.

the service fee here is (8%) of cogs.

My customers continually challenge my fees for services.. albeit I am selling my “minutes” and not food.


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> Good explanation. So the (what is brokers fee) is not a (25%) mark-up.
> 
> 
> My customers continually challenge my fees for services.. albeit I am selling my “minutes” and not food.


Uber eats isn’t selling food either. They are
selling logistics. All people care about are the cost Uber vs the cost of the competition, ie lyft, taxis, doordash Grubhub etc. 


I took an Uber this morning to get to an airport. Lyft was about $125 and Uber was $65. Guess which one I took? Normally it would be around $50 but there was a snowstorm in denver


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New guy65 said:


> Uber eats isn’t selling food either. They are
> selling logistics. All people care about are the cost Uber vs the cost of the competition, ie lyft, taxis, doordash Grubhub etc.
> 
> 
> I took an Uber this morning to get to an airport. Lyft was about $125 and Uber was $65. Guess which one I took? Normally it would be around $50 but there was a snowstorm in denver


think about this for a minute.. there are three layers of overhead and profit here:
1 the food venue
2 the gig driver
3 and the service fee

Good information. Thanks


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> He is a thread creating machine !!!!
> Too bad they are all kinda bullshit
> He wont be taking anymore of my time...


looks like he did


----------



## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> If I have $50 in the bank , a roof over my head
> and enough for a 6 pk of mac and cheese
> at the end of a year I consider that a profit..


"I never was cut out to step and strut out. Give me the simple life" : )

More people on here envy you than will admit it.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

W00dbutcher said:


> looks like he did



Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.
Kofi Annan


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

TM6.5 said:


> $.11 a minute is $6.60 an hour?
> 
> This must be a typo?
> 
> ...


To answer your question No
its only when there is a customer in the car.. $3.30 an hour is more like it


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

oldfart said:


> To answer your question No
> its only when there is a customer in the car.. $3.30 an hour is more like it


We just need some more hours in a day LOL


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> Knowledge is power. Information is liberating. Education is the premise of progress, in every society, in every family.
> Kofi Annan


It’s Not what you know. It’s what you think you know and don’t that bites you in the ass. So never try to answer anything without full information and if you don’t know the answer just say so


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New guy65 said:


> It’s Not what you know. It’s what you think you know and don’t that bites you in the ass. So never try to answer anything without full information and if you don’t know the answer just say so


Good points:
My experience is in labor cost analysis
And selling labor services to the market.


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> Good points:
> My experience is in labor cost analysis
> And selling labor services to the market.


Ahh so what you’re saying is you really have no clue how rideshare drivers get paid or how the companies charge customers


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New guy65 said:


> Ahh so what you’re saying is you really have no clue how rideshare drivers get paid or how the companies charge customers



LOL, 
yes I do.. this article spells it out (75)% driver - (25)% Uber broker fee.
It looks like pax X (25%)


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> LOL,
> yes I do.. this article spells it out (75)% driver - (25)% Uber broker fee.
> It looks like pax X (25%)


The article is dead ass wrong


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> LOL,
> yes I do.. this article spells it out (75)% driver - (25)% Uber broker fee.
> It looks like pax X (25%)


Don't take this the wrong way but you're making repetitive posts trying to show how brilliant you are but you know very little about what the apps do or how they work.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New guy65 said:


> The article is dead ass wrong


My mark-up on (labor/vehicle) cost = (20%) for a gross profit mark-up (not margin) ..when I read this I was surprised to see that the Ubers brokers service fee for rides was (25%) as a margin comes off pretty high?

fake news?


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New2This said:


> Don't take this the wrong way but you're making repetitive posts trying to show how brilliant you are but you know very little about what the apps do or how they work.


My comments are mostly offered towards the cost of labor and the cost with operating a vehicle.

the value of (minutes and miles) for drivers This is how drivers get paid

as I read post regarding (minute and miles earnings) many look to be way low! One poster offered a mile rate of $.11 

I have never made any comments on the apps or how they work.
Correct me if I am incorrect here?

Are you a driver earning a living by the minute and mile?


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> My mark-up on (labor/vehicle) cost = (20%) for a gross profit mark-up (not margin) ..when I read this I was surprised to see that the Ubers brokers service fee for rides was (25%) as a margin comes off pretty high?
> 
> fake news?


Yeah it’s fake. Uber hasn’t had a 75/25 split for years. With the exception of maybe some really long time drivers


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New guy65 said:


> Yeah it’s fake. Uber hasn’t had a 75/25 split for years. With the exception of maybe some really long time drivers


the date on the article was 2022


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> the date on the article was 2022


Post a link to the article.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> My comments are mostly offered towards the cost of labor and the cost with operating a vehicle.
> 
> the value of (minutes and miles) for drivers This is how drivers get paid
> 
> ...


I don't drive much but when I do yeah it's miles/minutes pay.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New2This said:


> Post a link to the article.


https://www.ridester.com/uber-rates-cost/

sorry I thought I did earlier


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> https://www.************/uber-rates-cost/
> 
> sorry I thought I did earlier











Uber Cost: Fare Pricing, Rates, and Cost Estimates


Ever wondered how much Uber costs? We have all the details about fare prices, surges, rates, and more. Budget for your next trip with our guide!




www.ridester.com






*Does Uber Charge by Mile or Time?*
Among other pricing components, Uber charges a ride depending on the amount of time the rider has spent in the car and the distance covered during the journey.
During the cost calculation, the time is charged per minute while the distance is charged per mile.
These rates depend on the default rates of the Uber City where the rider is traveling.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> https://www.************/uber-rates-cost/


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Try spacing out the letters.

L i k e t h i s


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

https://www.ridester.com/uber-rates-cost/


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Uber Cost: Fare Pricing, Rates, and Cost Estimates


Ever wondered how much Uber costs? We have all the details about fare prices, surges, rates, and more. Budget for your next trip with our guide!




www.ridester.com


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> https://www.************/uber-rates-cost/


🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Like this

www. u b e r p e o p l e .net


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

https://www.************/uber-rates-cost/. L


New2This said:


> 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️
> 
> Like this
> 
> www. u b e r p e o p l e .net


One more time








Uber Cost: Fare Pricing, Rates, and Cost Estimates


Ever wondered how much Uber costs? We have all the details about fare prices, surges, rates, and more. Budget for your next trip with our guide!




www.ridester.com






New2This said:


> 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️
> 
> Like this
> 
> www. u b e r p e o p l e .net


https://www.ridester.com/uber-rates-cost/

www. r i d e s t e r . c o m / u b e r - r a t e s - c o s t


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> https://www.************/uber-rates-cost/. L
> 
> 
> One more time
> ...


Ok I just skimmed the article. 

It appears to be talking about rider rates and says the 75/25 split (which is flat out wrong) as an afterthought.


----------



## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

TM6.5 said:


> Ubers pricing structure is based on three components.
> 
> 1) the divers time (gross income) in minutes
> 2) the drivers miles driven
> ...


Reality. Over 50%. Uber takes it all. Lyft is worse. 
I also drive in one of the best cities to do rideshare


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

TM6.5 said:


> My comments are mostly offered towards the cost of labor and the cost with operating a vehicle.
> 
> the value of (minutes and miles) for drivers This is how drivers get paid
> 
> ...


Ok sir. Clearly your so out of tune with rideshare.

Explain this.










No rate card. No miles or minutes. Just rando numbers uber gives you in 5 seconds to cypher.










Same ride different amounts. 

Clearly your 75/25 split is like years ago. Most are on a 50/50 or less take. 

Just about everyone here that ACTUALLY DOES THIS JOB knows you sir, are full of shit.


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

New2This said:


> Ok I just skimmed the article.
> 
> It appears to be talking about rider rates and says the 75/25 split (which is flat out wrong) as an afterthought.


Even the comments say it’s bs.

If you doubt it do the math between the driver breakdown and the passenger rates This doesn’t include incentive for the driver such as quests on this trip Ubers cut was 2.63 and the city got 1.25


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

W00dbutcher said:


> Ok sir. Clearly your so out of tune with rideshare.
> 
> Explain this.
> 
> ...


He’s not full of shit but the guy who wrote the article certainly is.

he apparently doesn’t know 2 things. 
1 That just because something is on the internet doesn’t make it true.
2 doing your own research doesn’t mean looking up random stuff on the internet. 

I saw an interview with a lady a few weeks ago that said joe biden was dead and when he was in public it was really jim Carey


----------



## Lord Summerisle (Aug 15, 2015)

elelegido said:


> Dude is trying to play accountant and offering advice, but none of the accounting analysis he does makes any sense, at all.
> 
> Either he has no knowledge of accounting or he's trying to troll people. I think it's the latter.


Accounting trolls are the worst.


----------



## Discdom (Jul 17, 2019)

New guy65 said:


> He’s not full of shit but the guy who wrote the article certainly is.
> 
> he apparently doesn’t know 2 things.
> 1 That just because something is on the internet doesn’t make it true.
> ...


That’s a dream I wish was true


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> hey old fart.
> 
> that is the pricing structure for Uber.
> 
> ...



Nope you're wrong. No fixed % since 2016. 

Now go away, you've been voted off the island. 










I hear there's a really good baseball saber metrics forum arguing fWar vs bWar at baseball geeks. Com


----------



## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

TM6.5 said:


> Ubers pricing structure is based on three components.
> 
> 1) the divers time (gross income) in minutes
> 2) the drivers miles driven
> ...


You must be fun at parties.


----------



## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

This is a good article, but not pertinent to Rideshare. We can't set our own time and mileage rates.
We are "self-employed" only because Uber says we are. Very little of what we do qualifies us as self-employed.


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

Illini said:


> You must be fun at parties.


Maybe he talks about NFTS and cryptocurrency as well


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> The cost of a cell phone?
> As a driver you need to have a phone and the app.
> This is a capitalized expense


These posts are painful to read and hard not to comment on as they are so truly very inaccurate. What you don’t seem to understand is that you have accounting and finance people on UP who see your posts and cringe.

Do you understand what Capitalized means? A cellphone most certainly is not Capitalized under normal circumstances.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> The cost of a cell phone?
> As a driver you need to have a phone and the app.
> This is a capitalized expense @ let’s say $100.00 a month net.
> The first $100.00 a month you earn goes towards a direct expense as such?
> ...


In such a short post you’ve managed make a simple thing twisted. Do you even understand the contradictions in what you say?

You say a cellphone is a Capatilized expense.
Then you say it’s overhead.
Then you say it’s a direct expense
Then you say it’s overhead


----------



## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

This guy is now blocked , new bee with horrible info


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> Why are we setting ourselves up to fail.
> 
> 
> Ok .. smart guys.
> ...


You're obviously desperate to show you're the smartest person on the site with some esoteric point you're trying to make but you keep making mistakes and getting embarrassed.

Try a new account in a few weeks and just try being a normal person for a change.

Also if you want to impress people with your business development idea, maybe learn to spell business correctly. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️


----------



## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

TM6.5 said:


> You sure have a bone out for me.


I have my bone out for you 😍


----------



## Vagabond1 (9 mo ago)

> I am not an account nor do we need to be.
> You can agree or disagree with my logic here.


Well apparently someone needs to be, because you've made a right mess of this in every post you've made so far. Forget disagreeing with the logic of it, you're not even using the right numbers, which as has already been pointed out are different in every market. So, whatever you try to do with these strange formulas you keep coming up with, it would only apply to one city at most, and in many cases only one ride. What you're trying to do literally cannot be done uniformly everywhere.

Like I have said repeatedly, you do not provide enough information to solve your own problem, which means every single problem you've posted in unsolvable and a waste of time to everybody who's been trying to help you.



> I got Ubers brokerage fee off the internet.
> so my bad?


Ya stop doing that. Google never forgets anything. You're looking at 10 year old information. These days only drivers know what the drivers make. And to that point, if you're not a driver and don't know any of this, why are you in here taking everyone's time to educate you about what we make and how?


----------



## Classical Telecaster (Dec 12, 2019)

bobby747 said:


> This guy is now blocked , new bee with horrible info


And when he gets answers to his questions argues with the response.


----------



## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

On uber and cell phones. 8 plus years ago. They rented you iphone 4s if you wanted at pay deductions of $10 week. I got my own


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Lord Summerisle said:


> Accounting trolls are the worst.


This one's pretty successful, though. Normally, trolls usually post content like, "You're an as***le" and get ignored and/or banned in short order.

In common with other trolls, this one does post absolute nonsense, but he gets people to take him seriously and waste their time writing post after post in attempts to tell him where he's going wrong. Dude already admitted that he writes his threads for "entertainment value".

Getting a kick out of having people waste their time responding to nonsense is indeed bizarre. File under "strange but true".


----------



## Vagabond1 (9 mo ago)

elelegido said:


> Getting a kick out of having people waste their time responding to nonsense is indeed bizarre.


And believe me I think about that every time I reply instead of hitting ignore. "I must look like an uptight moron indulging this again." LOL! I guess it's the previous accounting experience and the mind-blowingness of what I'm seeing that makes me look on and try to help like it's a train wreck with bodies strewn all over.


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

bobby747 said:


> On uber and cell phones. 8 plus years ago. They rented you iphone 4s if you wanted at pay deductions of $10 week. I got my own


I started with a rented iPhone 4.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Vagabond1 said:


> And believe me I think about that every time I reply instead of hitting ignore. "I must look like an uptight moron indulging this again." LOL! I guess it's the previous accounting experience and the mind-blowingness of what I'm seeing that makes me look on and try to help like it's a train wreck with bodies strewn all over.



well in closing.

I was just trying to demonstrate how flawed the minutes and miles unit cost drivers income (could be) ..this is pretty simple math.

for example:

A) Minutes rate: If gross hour revenues as an independent contractor all in expenses with G&A = ($32.00) an hour @ (60) minutes your unit minutes rate = ($.54)
B) Miles rate: (just use the fed) rate ($.585)

Clearly if you are earning less than ($.54) per minute you are going backwards.

simple math happens to work


----------



## Vagabond1 (9 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> simple math happens to work


Yes it does. Whatever it is you're doing starting with numbers you pull out of your butt instead of real numbers does not.

And on that note, the ignore button calls.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Illini said:


> This is a good article, but not pertinent to Rideshare. We can't set our own time and mileage rates.
> We are "self-employed" only because Uber says we are. Very little of what we do qualifies us as self-employed.


You said it not me.

are you an employee or a independent contractor.?

If you set your personal income needs @ $5,000.00 a month as this article offers @ 160 hrs. a month this = ($31.25) an hour or by the minute =($.52)

And everyone is calling me a troll for pointing this out?

If others challenge the above math you need to question their objectives?

I am 100% convinced that nobody will challenge me that $5,000.00 a month is too much personal income. (I could be wrong?) 

we will see as anyone responds here as such.


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

New guy65 said:


> Maybe he talks about NFTS and cryptocurrency as well


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Vagabond1 said:


> Yes it does. Whatever it is you're doing starting with numbers you pull out of your butt instead of real numbers does not.
> 
> And on that note, the ignore button calls.


Well then prove me wrong? (sir)

I love a good debate!

When I offer a position regarding finances I back it up with simple data.

let’s use some real numbers apparently mine are not accurate. Ok, my math is flawed.

I am not pulling these numbers out of my ass.

case in point: 

I need ($5,000.00) a month in person income to carve out a very modest living. @ (160) hours a month this = $31.25 an hour or $.52 a minute

so my minutes charges for my personal income = ($.52) (assuming 100%) billable time? 

Respectfully offered


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Classical Telecaster said:


> And when he gets answers to his questions argues with the response.





Seamus said:


> These posts are painful to read and hard not to comment on as they are so truly very inaccurate. What you don’t seem to understand is that you have accounting and finance people on UP who see your posts and cringe.
> 
> Do you understand what Capitalized means? A cellphone most certainly is not Capitalized under normal circumstances.



I cringe as well when I analyze )(personal income) W-2 wage earnings needs @ $5,000.00 a month @ 160 hours = $31.25 an hour or ($.52) a minute for one’s W-2 salary income minutes and Uber pays what per minute?

Independent (gig) drivers capitalized their labor and vehicle expenses working for Uber.
Uber is not directly capitalizing these expenses but passing these expenses through at cost plus a fee.
Touché


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

SpinalCabbage said:


>


Excellent episode lure them in with pancakes and fries and ****em with NFTs. The firefighters were great also


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> Well then prove me wrong? (sir)
> 
> I love a good debate!
> 
> ...


Your math is totally flawed as you are trying to equate what you need to live vs what rideshare drivers get paid at base rates. It’s not even apples to oranges.

Also 31.25/hr is nothing for a consultant or whatever it is you actually do. Even the ones fresh out of college are making more than that and they have benefits and no self employment tax


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New guy65 said:


> Your math is totally flawed as you are trying to equate what you need to live vs what rideshare drivers get paid at base rates. It’s not even apples to oranges.
> 
> Also 31.25/hr is nothing for a consultant or whatever it is you actually do. Even the ones fresh out of college are making more than that and they have benefits and no self employment tax


Help me out here then?

my goal here is to make a (living income) and cover my overhead expenses as a independent contractor.

I ain’t that smart.

If my personal gross income needs are $5,000.00 a month as a W-2 employee and I work (160) hours a month (after vacation and holidays) my math suggests this = $31.25 an hour
So if I divide my hourly amount by (60) minutes I get ($.52) a minute

am I missing something here?


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> Help me out here then?
> 
> my goal here is to make a (living income) and cover my overhead expenses as a independent contractor.
> 
> ...


You aren’t missing anything on what you make. It’s that rideshare drivers dont. get paid that. So a comparison is pointless. 

if I drive a passenger for a full hour and average 60mph in Chicago base rates , which will almost never happen as I wouldn’t accept a trip that long I would make. $50.40/hr plus a couple of bucks for the pick up fee 

Time 60x.21 =13.20
Distance 60x.61=37.2

the problem is you are 60 miles from civilization and will probably spend at least 30 minutes getting back to where there are trips. So it’s down to $35/hr plus the cost of gas and probably some tolls

there is a max a driver can make without surges and incentives


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New guy65 said:


> You aren’t missing anything on what you make. It’s that rideshare drivers dont. get paid that. So a comparison is pointless.
> 
> if I drive a passenger for a full hour and average 60mph in Chicago base rates , which will almost never happen as I wouldn’t accept a trip that long I would make. $50.40/hr plus a couple of bucks for the pick up fee
> 
> ...


Ok, 

I am a slow learner.

thanks everyone for their putting up with me.

most of you have been very polite.

summarize this quickly:

If I need ($.52) a minute to earn a living driving ..It ain’t going to happen.

thanks new guy65..(Kudos to you for working though this. (It sucks being administrative) You did good here!


----------



## Be Right There (9 mo ago)

Seamus said:


> In such a short post you’ve managed make a simple thing twisted. Do you even understand the contradictions in what you say?
> 
> You say a cellphone is a Capatilized expense.
> Then you say it’s overhead.
> ...


Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking. I was in the accounting field for 17 years and reading that gave me a headache.


----------



## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> Ok,
> 
> I am a slow learner.
> 
> ...


Ahh. You are really trying to figure out if you can make 5k/mo or 1250/week doing Uber

You asked the wrong questions in the wrong place. Just go to the forum for whatever city you live in as people from all over are on this thread and the pay varies greatly by location. 

if you were in Chicago the answer is yes. You just need to drive when it’s busy and take advantage of all incentives offered. If you are in a small city who knows


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

When I was young my dad would get frustrated with my sister because she would say dumb things. It was not unusual to hear him say, "Marie, why don't you just keep your mouth closed and have people just _think _you're stupid, rather than opening your mouth and confirming it beyond doubt."


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

_Tron_ said:


> When I was young my dad would get frustrated with my sister because she would say dumb things. It was not unusual to hear him say, "Marie, why don't you just keep your mouth closed and have people just _think _you're stupid, rather than opening your mouth and confirming it beyond doubt."


I bet your sister wasn't this annoying though...


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

TM6.5 said:


> For shoots and giggles I did the Kelly blue book vehicle (physical) (not the tax world) depreciation method to get a cost per mile.
> 
> I used a 2018 Honda CRV and trade with the in value. @ (80,000) miles delta for this year and same vehicle speciations the cost was ($.125) per mile.


I dont know what this means _and trade with the in value._

As my first year algebra teacher said.60 years ago..."show your work"

For example when I started rideshare, heres what I planned

Value of the vehicle when put into service = $18000
expected miles to be driven = 3 years at 70000 miles (210000)
expected value at end of service = $2000

$18000 - $2000 = $16000
$16000 / 210000 = 7.6 cents per mile


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Be Right There said:


> Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking. I was in the accounting field for 17 years and reading that gave me a headache.


As @Lord Summerisle pointed out, this dude is an accounting troll, lol. He strings together a random collection of accounting terms in posts that make no sense, and gets people to waste their time replying to him to tell him how wrong he is. 

It's most bizarre but he seems to get a kick out of it. It's certainly a novel approach to trolling.

🤷‍♂️


----------



## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

You guys just don’t understand. Look at it this way….
Gas $5.09/ gallon
Rent $1500
Car loan $400
Marbles $27.52
Food $821.19
Illegal entertainment $12,327
Insurance $180
Phone bill $120
Socks $52
Protection $1,520
Snacks $7.50
Trunk monkey $2107
Water bill $110
Interpreter $20/hour
Dish soap $3.50
Internet $70
Oil change $69.99
Cat food $45.99

so roosters walk at noon, and switches go dormant at dawn. Which means the flux is best left unattended for seven, and doe equals yellow.


----------



## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

Dude, you know Uber is real, right? I think you’re getting it mixed up with the app where you pretend to drive people around for money. But that’s a boring game. The Uber we’re talking about is a real app. We actually drive real cars, to pick up real passengers, and drive them to real places, for real money. I hope this helps.


----------



## Vagabond1 (9 mo ago)

TobyD said:


> Dude, you know Uber is real, right? I think you’re getting it mixed up with the app where you pretend to drive people around for money. But that’s a boring game. The Uber we’re talking about is a real app. We actually drive real cars, to pick up real passengers, and drive them to real places, for real money. I hope this helps.


There's a rideshare GAME? They're indoctrinating children to become drivers when we age out! LOL!


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

In u


TM6.5 said:


> I cringe as well when I analyze )(personal income) W-2 wage earnings needs @ $5,000.00 a month @ 160 hours = $31.25 an hour or ($.52) a minute for one’s W-2 salary income minutes and Uber pays what per minute?
> 
> Independent (gig) drivers capitalized their labor and vehicle expenses working for Uber.
> Uber is not directly capitalizing these expenses but passing these expenses through at cost plus a fee.
> Touché





elelegido said:


> As @Lord Summerisle pointed out, this dude is an accounting troll, lol. He strings together a random collection of accounting terms in posts that make no sense, and gets people to waste their time replying to him to tell him how wrong he is.
> 
> It's most bizarre but he seems to get a kick out of it. It's certainly a novel approach to trolling.
> 
> 🤷‍♂️


As a self- employed gig driver one has two things for sale:
1) labor cost (fully burdened with drivers overhead)
2) vehicle cost

As an independent gig worker the diver has the capitalized both in the above.

uber provides the app and gets paid for this capitalized investment and as such charges a fee for booking. (let’s call this a brokerage fee.

clearly the “independent”
gig driver has the largest percentage of investment position here. (They provide all the labor and a vehicle) 

When you think about a ride two things come to mind the a) labor cost for the diver and the b) cost of the vehicle.

Well someone needs to get paid to administrate your ride.

How this looks as a fee structure:
1 drivers per mile gross income with drivers overhead =$.62
2 drivers vehicle provided per mile = $.65
3) Ubers brokerage fee = (20) % of sum lines (1-2) = 

this is the basic algorithm of how this works.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

TobyD said:


> You guys just don’t understand. Look at it this way….
> Gas $5.09/ gallon
> Rent $1500
> Car loan $400
> ...


well I noticed one thing you are the only one that has put together a budget other than me.

kudos to you!


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)




----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

elelegido said:


> As @Lord Summerisle pointed out, this dude is an accounting troll, lol. He strings together a random collection of accounting terms in posts that make no sense, and gets people to waste their time replying to him to tell him how wrong he is.
> 
> It's most bizarre but he seems to get a kick out of it. It's certainly a novel approach to trolling.
> 
> 🤷‍♂️


Have you noticed this ..nobody todate has offered a method for the determination of income per mile?

Be careful throwing stones when you live in a glass house?

For example: income needs algorithm (101)

if your personal income needs are $5,000.00 a month.

if you work (160) hours a month prorated hours after time off = (9,600) minutes a month.

your income needs per minute = (gross monthly living needs) = ($5,000.00) / unit minutes per month (9600) = personal income minutes charges ($.52) - excludes G&A overhead and profit?

this is pretty simple math happens to work.

if you want to challenge me here you need to provide an example as such that disputes this simple aspect alone. Let’s leave accounting out of this as it applies to personal income?

Case in point: if you are earning less than ($.52) per minute as a W-2 employee you are going broke.

summerisle offers great accounting advice for those that needs tax advice as such for self-employment tax implications strategies.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> Have you noticed this ..nobody todate has offered a method for the determination of income per mile?
> 
> Be careful throwing stones when you live in a glass house?
> 
> ...


Did you ever figure that people do this for various reasons? Some people do it full-time like @25rides7daysaweek. He doesn't break it down to his per-minute pay. He goes out, works smartly and makes it work. 

Others do it part-time. I fell into that category. I didn't do as granular analysis as you did. I simply turned the app on, tracked mileage and expenses, and decided when I was done if it was a worthwhile use of my time. 

Do you even drive? 

If so what market are you in?


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New2This said:


> Did you ever figure that people do this for various reasons? Some people do it full-time like @25rides7daysaweek. He doesn't break it down to his per-minute pay. He goes out, works smartly and makes it work.
> 
> Others do it part-time. I fell into that category. I didn't do as granular analysis as you did. I simply turned the app on, tracked mileage and expenses, and decided when I was done if it was a worthwhile use of my time.
> 
> ...


Well.. part time or full time .. the metric (unit cost) of (minutes monthly) is the same across full time hours.

A full time job minutes = (prorated after vacation and holidays) = (160) hours x (60) minutes = (9600) gross minutes monthly.

so ..if my gross W-2 personal budget is $5,000.00 a month at full time minutes @ (9600) = ($52) a minute.

so the minute (unit cost salary) is the same. If I work part time or full time my personal income needs per minute has a unit cost of ($.52) per minute.

my market location living income needs is ($5,000.00) a month for a full time position @ (9600) minutes a month. $.52) per minute . FYI - (My monthly rent and utilities) = ($650) a month


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

@MHR can you please just group this idiot's cut-and-paste template threads into one thread like you did for Ozzy?

Maybe title it "Beating a dead horse while being both wrong and boring"?

Seriously the same shit over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New2This said:


> Did you ever figure that people do this for various reasons? Some people do it full-time like @25rides7daysaweek. He doesn't break it down to his per-minute pay. He goes out, works smartly and makes it work.
> 
> Others do it part-time. I fell into that category. I didn't do as granular analysis as you did. I simply turned the app on, tracked mileage and expenses, and decided when I was done if it was a worthwhile use of my time.
> 
> ...


minute math for dummies: 

I did break this into a minute cost

1 2080 hours a year full time
2 less vacation and holidays - (160)
3 net hours = 1920 hrs annualized
4 monthly = line 3 = 1920 / 12 months = prorated hours monthly = (160)
5 monthly minutes = (160) hours x (60) minutes = monthly minutes prorated = (9600)

please check my math here?

so if your gross living salary and benefits with retirement is ($5,000.00) a month / (9600) minutes = ($.52) a minute.

keep in mind this is for a W-2) employee without payroll liabilities overhead and profit.

you guys try the math here to check mine?


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

New2This said:


> @MHR can you please just group this idiot's cut-and-paste template threads into one thread like you did for Ozzy?
> 
> Maybe title it "Beating a dead horse while being both wrong and boring"?
> 
> Seriously the same shit over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.


Maybe you can provide a mathematical summary analysis to prove me incorrect. 

Until you do this (most respectfully) you are offering nothing that supports this from a mathematical perspective as such.

A question here?

Are you part of the problem here or part of the fix?


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

oldfart said:


> I dont know what this means _and trade with the in value._
> 
> As my first year algebra teacher said.60 years ago..."show your work"
> 
> ...


Hi old fart.

let’s agree to disagree on physical vehicle depreciation?

my homework suggested it was $.12 a mile. Yours is ($.076) a mile ..with your capitalized overhead and profit mark up you need to charge $.010) a mile for depreciation.

hey if we just charge the federal rate @ ($.585) plus our drivers mark up (20%) we can just charge ($.70) per mile ?

I suggest $.70 a mile is around a bill rate per mile?


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> Hi old fart.
> 
> let’s agree to disagree on physical vehicle depreciation?
> 
> ...


There is nothing to disagree about, @oldfart is correct. Your calculation may or may not be correct, we have no way of knowing without seeing where you got the numbers from. As far as what we can charge, last i heard, you don't get to set your own prices or did i miss a memo?


----------



## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

TM = too much
6.5 = meth


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

TM6.5 said:


> Hi old fart.
> 
> let’s agree to disagree on physical vehicle depreciation?
> 
> ...





Disgusted Driver said:


> There is nothing to disagree about, @oldfart is correct. Your calculation may or may not be correct, we have no way of knowing without seeing where you got the numbers from. As far as what we can charge, last i heard, you don't get to set your own prices or did i miss a memo?


you got the memo as well? 

you are contracted as a (self - employed contractor) but you have no position to set the rate for the capitalized services you provide.
the question begs: are you employed as an employee or a captured gig worker?

(Gig workers need to include no less than the additional FICA burden for self - employment) @ (.0765) additional income.

the big delta here?

Taxi services employers provided the (vehicles and all related expenses)

as such these cost are not the burden of the employee driver.?

as a gig worker you are providing a huge capitalized expense here!

uber is not a taxi service that provides (vehicles capitalized) burden but is a (brokerage firm) with an app that coordinates your ride.

simply put here.

the capitalized expenses associated with a) labor cost and b) the vehicle expenses is placed on the diver as a independent contractor.

The question I have here? as an independent contractor driver are you making a decent living for minutes and the vehicle you provided.

uber is nothing more than a (booking agent) collecting a percentage of what the driver provides in labor and his or her own vehicle.

Uber position is like betting on a horse race. 
You own the horse and are the jockey. Uber is betting on you showing up and getting to the finish line.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TobyD said:


> TM = too much
> 6.5 = meth


I agree with Mr. @TobyD


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

So maybe I see what you are doing here. 

You are calculating the expenses we incur: operating costs, labor cost, vehicle depreciation and brokerage fees/commissions to come to a total that we should measure against what we are actually earning. .You are stopping short of calling us idiots for doing this. but I get the message


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

TM6.5 said:


> my homework suggested it was $.12 a mile. Yours is ($.076) a mile ..with your capitalized overhead and profit mark up you need to charge $.010) a mile for depreciation.
> 
> hey if we just charge the federal rate @ ($.585) plus our drivers mark up (20%) we can just charge ($.70) per mile ?
> 
> I suggest $.70 a mile is around a bill rate per mile?


But then the monkey bongo overhead capitalises the marked up federal banana wedge at 30%.

How could you have overlooked that?


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

oldfart said:


> I dont know what this means _and trade with the in value._
> 
> As my first year algebra teacher said.60 years ago..."show your work"
> 
> ...


You're wasting your time - the guy is trolling you.

His MO is to post threads all over the forum that are total gibberish, although they contain a few financial / accounting terms. His goal is to get people to respond to his posts and waste their time arguing against the posted piffle.

He's not even a driver (he found an old article on the internet that mentioned Uber's 75%/25% revenue split and posted about said revenue split on here as if it were current - not realising that Uber abandoned it and went to up-front pricing years ago).


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Seamus said:


> These posts are painful to read and hard not to comment on as they are so truly very inaccurate. What you don’t seem to understand is that you have accounting and finance people on UP who see your posts and cringe.
> 
> Do you understand what Capitalized means? A cellphone most certainly is not Capitalized under normal circumstances.


Well, i have to disagree. Sort of. 

i think people are confusing a fixed asset with a service. 

If you buy an iPhone for $1000, you can capitalize. Additionally you can expense the business USE (monthly charges). 

I believe there is a provision allowing for fully expensing a fixed asset at certain cost and/or useable life parameters.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Diamondraider said:


> Well, i have to disagree. Sort of.
> 
> i think people are confusing a fixed asset with a service.
> 
> ...


Could you? Yes! 

Would it be considered “normal” to capitalize a $1000 item? Not a chance! Yes you could but c’mon, that’s digging deep.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

elelegido said:


> You're wasting your time - the guy is trolling you.
> 
> His MO is to post threads all over the forum that are total gibberish, although they contain a few financial / accounting terms. His goal is to get people to respond to his posts and waste their time arguing against the posted piffle.
> 
> He's not even a driver (he found an old article on the internet that mentioned Uber's 75%/25% revenue split and posted about said revenue split on here as if it were current - not realising that Uber abandoned it and went to up-front pricing years ago).


I am not trolling anyone here but challenging everyone to think about this.

What advice have I offered that has been.. that working for less is not more?

(Less is not more)

I shared a very simple formula to determine your minutes rate.

I never offered accounting advice for your business.

If you need $5,000.00 (gross pre- tax) a month funding for your personal living expenses (working full time)

the math looks like this:

full time minutes a month:
A) prorated hours a month after vacation and holidays = prorated hours a month = (160) hrs.
B) minutes a month = (160) hrs x (60) minutes = (gross minutes monthly) = (9,600) minutes monthly prorated.

(C unit minute cost rate = (gross income) =($5,000.00) / line (b) minutes (9600) = your minutes value towards salary = ($.52)

so what part of the above math metrics is flawed?

forget accounting and the cost of vehicle operations. I am just speaking to one’s personal living income as a (per minute value)

this is basic high school economics.

so I am going to ask a question here?
What is the value of minutes in regards to your personal income needs?

todate there has only been (one) person that has address the aspect of personal earnings.

Yep, just one person.

I will admit it. I cringe when I see a response that suggest one’s minutes value is less than ($.52) a minute for personal income procurement.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

How to calculate your minutes per month:

1) annualized straight time hours annualized = (40) hours a week x (52) weeks = (2080) hrs.
2) annualized minus vacation and holidays = (-160)
3) net annualized hours worked after time off = (1920)
4) net minutes worked annualized = line 3 hours = (1920) x (60) minutes an hour = (115,200) minutes annualized.
5) prorated hours worked monthly as an employee = gross net hou(1920) / (12) months = monthly prorated hours (160)
6) minutes prorated a month as an employee line (5) times (60) minutes = (9600) (monthly minutes)

so your minutes per month prorated per month =( 9600) minutes

sample monthly personal income earnings per minute unit cost.
If your personal living expenses needs = ($5,000.00) a month (earnings- retirement- health care - and taxes)

then your minutes earnings needs for personal income looks like this:

1 gross monthly personal income = ($5,000.00)
2 minutes earnings = (gross monthly earnings = ($5,000.00) / (monthly minutes) (9600) = ($.52) per minute.

add vehicle expenses and G&A overhead in additional.


----------



## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

You don't give up, do you?


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Illini said:


> You don't give up, do you?


a minute’s analysis (pretty simple stuff)

We all need to help each other out here.

who goes to work for income less than it takes to earn a living?

if your income is a metric of minutes and miles then I suggest figuring this out is in one’s best interest.

I get no satisfaction with watching others suffer as a result of a pricing structure that does not analyze this metrics as such.

Many of us need ($.52) a minute for our time just to carve out a living subsistence with personal income.

Gross monthly earnings needs = ($5,000.00) a month / (9600) minutes a month = ($.52) a minute?

please correct me if my analysis is flawed?

No offense but I never see your personal income equity position advice as such?

Simply put here sir. (you have never offered a financial perspective as such)

so before you criticize me again, you best be in a position to offer a alternative perspective towards the income needs solution.

Back it up!

if this forums financial advisors offered good advise regarding the cost per minute for (personal income salary earnings) per minute it would be no less than ($.52) per minute.


----------



## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

Why would I want to know minutes per month? That’s more useless then the time you told us to capitalize out phone, then expense our phone, then overhead our phone, then insert it into the darkest part of our body and call ourselves over and over. Also, do you know any driver that works 40 hours a week? We aren’t employees. So we either drive a few hours a week, or we work as much as our body allows. 40 hour work week means nothing here.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> you got the memo as well?
> 
> you are contracted as a (self - employed contractor) but you have no position to set the rate for the capitalized services you provide.
> the question begs: are you employed as an employee or a captured gig worker?
> ...


Your presentation leaves a lot to be desired but when I drive I do well ty. I understand the costs involved in driving my particular vehicle At today's gas prices (4.29 per gallon) I am at 44 cents a mile + or - a penny. I have switched to only driving when there are multiple revenue streams (fare, surge, incentives) and while working less and bringing in less per week, I am able to gross over $40 an hour which probably nets me somewhere around $33 an hour on average. 

Uber has moved from being a booking agent to being a ride broker, they sell rides to pax and purchase our services to fulfill them at the lowest price they can. As a result you have to work smarter not harder. Bottom line, I'm happy with what I get out of this so I keep doing it. When it doesn't work for me, I don't drive.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

TobyD said:


> Why would I want to know minutes per month? That’s more useless then the time you told us to capitalize out phone, then expense our phone, then overhead our phone, then insert it into the darkest part of our body and call ourselves over and over. Also, do you know any driver that works 40 hours a week? We aren’t employees. So we either drive a few hours a week, or we work as much as our body allows. 40 hour work week means nothing here.


Don't feed the troll! The more replies he gets addressing his gibberish posts, the more it encourages him.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> who goes to work for income less than it takes to earn a living?


Been to your local airport Pig Pen lot lately?


----------



## Markisonit (Dec 3, 2014)

Bottom line is driving for uber is a loss.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

TM6.5 said:


> So fuel cost can vary and miles of service are specific to the cost of vehicle operations.
> 
> 
> The most common aspect here is with wage earnings!
> ...


Hahaha . Did you read the forums . Uber is trying to entice drivers to work on weekends in the DC are telling us we will average 35hr between this time and this time . Experienced drivers use to make twice that amount at bar and club hours. 
There no way to make 35hr average in the DC area during the week . And even 35hr is not enough to mitigate gas and maintenance cost for a new vehicle .


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> hey ..one of the best aspects with a forum like this is we get to share our ideas and struggles.
> If what I offers helps others then I helped someone.
> 
> good stuff here!


You've been a member here for 1 week and posted over 140 times.

UberPeople.net has been online for more than 7 years with tens of thousands of users hundreds of thousands of posts and articles.

Before you begin re-inventing the wheel and lecturing drivers on how they should consider their costs (about which you are not wrong) maybe you could take some time to read what has been discussed before you arrived here instead of acting like this is a topic that's never before been considered.

A couple of things already pointed out to you by others that bear repeating:

each and every individual drivers has a unique cost basis (no two drivers cost basis is identical)
there are nearly as many earnings and profit goals for driving as there are drivers
the two points above change for each driver as frequently as the sun rises and sets


----------



## LoveTheBlues (Jun 2, 2016)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> If I have $50 in the bank , a roof over my head
> and enough for a 6 pk of mac and cheese
> at the end of a year I consider that a profit..


That's a pretty low bar for 25 rides a day 7 days a week. I don't think it unreasonable to ask for baked mac & cheese


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You've been a member here for 1 week and posted over 140 times.
> 
> UberPeople.net has been online for more than 7 years with tens of thousands of users hundreds of thousands of posts and articles.
> 
> ...


I was just offering a simple algorithm for personal earnings per minutes.

If your personal living needs (retirement- health care - taxes and net salary) = $5,000.00 a month @ (9600) minutes a month you need ($.54) per minute less: (vehicle expenses - overhead & profit)

I agree your mileage may vary but for many of us on this forum our personal and business goals are to (earn a living) at $5,000.00 a month for a personal income plus overhead this is not greedy but a function of needs.


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> I was just offering a simple algorithm for personal earnings per minutes.
> 
> If your personal living needs (retirement- health care - taxes and net salary) = $5,000.00 a month @ (9600) minutes a month you need ($.54) per minute less: (vehicle expenses - overhead & profit)
> 
> I agree your mileage may vary but for many of us on this forum our personal and business goals are to (earn a living) at $5,000.00 a month for a personal income plus overhead this is not greedy but a function of needs.


Where does $5000 come from? Cost of living varies in different places too...


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> Where does $5000 come from? Cost of living varies in different places too...


Hi there Ted,

great points..

Ok, let’s set a benchmark here for a living income needs. (101)

annualized amounts: (for a employee)

1 retirement salary allocation = $3,500.00
2 health & related care salary allocation = $4,800.00 (employee portion)
3 employee (base salary - federal -state and local tax liabilities) as a (W-2) employee income = ( $51,700.00)
4 gross employee earnings annualized = sum lines (1-3) =($60,000.00)

So.. if your gross (W-2) earnings are $60,000.00 annualized at (12) months this equals ($5,000.00) per month.

This is how I arrived at the $5,000.00 a month as a living income needs.

I get a lot of hate mail suggesting I grossly underestimate the wage needs for drivers. 

did I provide enough for everyone to earn a living here?

speak up if otherwise!


----------



## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

TM6.5 said:


> Hi there Ted,
> 
> great points..
> 
> ...


So this is how much you think you need to earn. I still don't see how this fits into the driver community as a whole. For me it's much simpler. I know what I need to earn and I evaluate what I AM earning and compare the two. So far it's working for me.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> I was just offering a simple algorithm for personal earnings per minutes.
> 
> If your personal living needs (retirement- health care - taxes and net salary) = $5,000.00 a month @ (9600) minutes a month you need ($.54) per minute less: (vehicle expenses - overhead & profit)
> 
> I agree your mileage may vary but for many of us on this forum our personal and business goals are to (earn a living) at $5,000.00 a month for a personal income plus overhead this is not greedy but a function of needs.


It's always a mistake to talk about what 'most' or 'all' or even 'average' drivers do, want or need. There is no such thing as 'the average' driver. And that's why your 'algorithm' may make sense for you - and no one else. You don't seem to understand that people driver for different reasons that range from basically 'hobby time filling' to earning enough to keep gas in the car so they don't freeze at night when sleeping in it - and absolutely every other reason under the sun.

So when every driver's expense is different and every driver's needs are different and every driver's motives are different, there is very little about which you can generalize. And that's the reason drivers labor can't organize drivers into an effective force for negotiation with he TNCs


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You really need to stop talking about what 'most' or 'all' or even 'average' drivers. There is no such thing. And that's why your 'algorithm' may make sense for you - and no one else. You don't seem to understand that people driver for different reasons that range from basically 'hobby time filling' to earning enough to keep gas in the car so they don't freeze at night when sleeping in it - and absolutely every other reason under the sun.
> 
> So when every driver's expense is different and every driver's needs are different and every driver's motives are different, there is very little about which you can generalize. And that's the reason drivers labor can't organize drivers into an effective force for negotiation with he TNCs


ok, this is how we work through this together. (Baby steps) 

How about a discussion of just wage earnings?

let’s separate wage needs from vehicle expenses.

forget vehicle expenses and tax implications. (If you walk to work you do not need a vehicle nor a cell phone)

A $5,000.00 a month personal income ( wages retirement - health care and taxes) for many on this forum.

so if your personal income needs = ($5,000.00) a month @ (9600) minutes a month prorated minutes = ($.52) per minute. This is the needs for (100) percent of your time.

food for thought here.

most respectfully.. T


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)




----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TM6.5 said:


> ok, this is how we work through this together. (Baby steps)
> 
> How about a discussion of just wage earnings?
> 
> ...


If you have a question, please ask it.
If you have a comment, please make it.

If all you want is to read what others have to say on a topic, please do a search and enjoy the many discussion threads you will find on any given topic.


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Vagabond1 said:


> And to that point, if you're not a driver and don't know any of this, why are you in here taking everyone's time to educate you about what we make and how?


As above, he's filling the site with gibberish posts and then having a good laugh at everyone who's wasting their time trying to correct him.

Don't feed the troll!


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Could you? Yes!
> 
> Would it be considered “normal” to capitalize a $1000 item? Not a chance! Yes you could but c’mon, that’s digging deep.


I wanted to highlight the difference between asset and use deductions. Many people get confused by this accounting concept.


----------



## Classical Telecaster (Dec 12, 2019)

Vagabond1 said:


> There's a rideshare GAME? They're indoctrinating children to become drivers when we age out! LOL!


Partially correct. They are indoctrinating kids not to buy cars and use rideshare just like they are indoctrinating them to rent rather than the American dream of home ownership.


----------



## TM6.5 (8 mo ago)

Let’s figure out a divers budget for the month: (101)

monthly budget items and expenses 

1) health care allocation = $300.00
2) retirement allocation = $350.00
3) base salary and taxes liabilities = $4,350.00
4) gross personal earnings = $5,000.00
5) add liabilities insurance = $85.00
6) gross revenues less vehicle expenses a month = $5,085.00
7) gross revenues for labor = ($5,085.00) 

8) hourly wage rate = ($5,085.00) / (160) hours a month = hourly income = ($32.80) per hour. (Per - minutes) charge = ($.55) 

9) add for vehicle expenses =


----------



## SassyDriver (9 mo ago)

How about a thread regarding proper spelling? Or how to proof read prior to posting?


----------

