# How I Fight Back Against Uber's Rate Cuts, Using Uber's Own System



## maxista

First a little intro:
I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
*
1. Quit.*
The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.

*2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.

*3. Cancellations.*
On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.

Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.

I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.

*4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.

*5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.

*Some other thoughts:*
_- A brief comment on the strikes._
I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.

_- On the ratings._
Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.

_- On More Radical Techniques._
Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.

Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.

I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.

Thanks, best.


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## Digits

Might as well rob the pax at gun point when they enter your car. Cancel the trip from their newly acquired smartphone and rate yourself a 5*. Rinse and repeat.


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## maxista

Digits said:


> Might as well rob the pax at gun point when they enter your car. Cancel the trip from their newly acquired smartphone and rate yourself a 5*. Rinse and repeat.


If you cancel the trip, they can't rate you. Not sure what your issue is here. Passengers can almost always get their money back from Uber, many don't care. You're completely missing the point.


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## UberLou

Karma. That is all.


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## maxista

UberLou said:


> Karma. That is all.


I don't see it. PAX can get his money back most of the time. Point is, this is a bigger fight, there's a lot more at stake than some PAX's 5 bucks. If that's what you guys are focused on you're really not paying attention, and are likely not experienced. As I mentioned towards the end, some people go much farther.


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## thomas1955

UberLou said:


> Karma. That is all.


Karma ? ROFLMAO
You don't have to worry about Karma, I had her as a pax two weeks ago, she told me she'll be working overtime for the next several years to deliver all the Karma the uber exec's have earned... Now she did tell me this after I hit the deer, wrecked car, and missed doctors appointment, she might have just been trying to make me feel better.


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## Digits

maxista said:


> If you cancel the trip, they can't rate you. Not sure what your issue is here. Passengers can almost always get their money back from Uber, many don't care. You're completely missing the point.


Your strategy could benefit alot of drivers out there. I would rather delete the app if it's not working out the right way for me. Drive uber,don't let uber drive you..


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## UberLou

maxista said:


> I don't see it. PAX can get his money back most of the time. Point is, this is a bigger fight, there's a lot more at stake than some PAX's 5 bucks. If that's what you guys are focused on you're really not paying attention, and are likely not experienced. As I mentioned towards the end, some people go much farther.


Experience has nothing to do being crooked. Rationalize it any way you want to you are stealing. I don't agree with that at all. I am not happy with the way Uber has done business but I will not punish riders for what you refer to as a bigger cause.

Ultimately we are all consumers and I would hate this done to me by other employees from other businesses that are going through the same struggles as we do as drivers.

To each his own but I pity anyone that follows your advise.


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## Disgusted Driver

I have a few aggressive techniques for increasing revenue but accepting a call, not trying to make pickup and then attempting to get cancellation fees is stealing. Please don't rationalize it. If you are OK with stealing then continue on and good luck to you. Please don't try to say otherwise, you are taking money from people without delivering or intending to deliver the service promised, sounds like stealing to me.


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## PTUber

What a dick! Please take your 1 advice and quit!


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## Dts08

His deactivation is fore - coming


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## Uberest

I've made this point before -- there is one very large error in your thinking Maxsista. To the extent you inconvenience pax, so that the pax comes to think less of Uber, you are screwing your brother and sister drivers as well as your self. Why? Because that pax is less likely to use uber in the future if he has a bad/crooked experience with you. That reduces the rideshare market, meaning fewer pings for all over time. The pax talks to his buds, his fam, etc. You are hurting the MARKET. You are hurting OTHER DRIVERS in exchange for a short term feel good for you.


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## maxista

Digits said:


> Your strategy could benefit alot of drivers out there. I would rather delete the app if it's not working out the right way for me. Drive uber,don't let uber drive you..


If people are outside, ready to go, and obviously ready to get in, in 99% of cases, I will not cancel on them. I don't see how I'm letting Uber drive me lol. Your reaction is a bit extreme. As I've stated, this is a strategy to fight Uber using Uber's own rules. Most of the time, I am not breaking Uber rules.


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## UberLou

maxista said:


> If people are outside, ready to go, and obviously ready to get in, in 99% of cases, I will not cancel on them. I don't see how I'm letting Uber drive me lol. Your reaction is a bit extreme. As I've stated, this is a strategy to fight Uber using Uber's own rules. Most of the time, I am not breaking Uber rules.


Where does it say in Uber's rules to accept a ride with Lyft after already accepting an Uber and force the Uber rider to cancel the request? That is the definition of Crooked.


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## maxista

UberLou said:


> Where does it say in Uber's rules to accept a ride with Lyft after already accepting a Uber and force the Uber rider to cancel the request?


That's not a common occurrence and happens less than 5% of the time.


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## maxista

UberLou said:


> Experience has nothing to do being crooked. Rationalize it any way you want to you are stealing. I don't agree with that at all. I am not happy with the way Uber has done business but I will not punish riders for what you refer to as a bigger cause.
> 
> Ultimately we are all consumers and I would hate this done to me by other employees from other businesses that are going through the same struggles as we do as drivers.
> 
> To each his own but I pity anyone that follows your advise.


Being Crooked? I hardly think that canceling on people who aren't ready is being crooked. That's really pushing the limits of the term "crooked". I mean if anyone is crooked, it's Uber, not some bloke canceling on PAX who aren't ready to roll wasting their driver's time. You pity people who follow my advice? Your pity is misplaced, it's actually fun working on the edges of what is within the rules and what is not.

If you take a Lyft ride, you'll notice a system message advising the rider to be ready and OUTSIDE at the time of arrival. My way of doing things just makes riders on Uber more aware that they need to be ready, which helps out the next driver, because the PAX will now be more aware that they need to be ready and it will make the next driver's experience more efficient.


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## maxista

Disgusted Driver said:


> I have a few aggressive techniques for increasing revenue but accepting a call, not trying to make pickup and then attempting to get cancellation fees is stealing. Please don't rationalize it. If you are OK with stealing then continue on and good luck to you. Please don't try to say otherwise, you are taking money from people without delivering or intending to deliver the service promised, sounds like stealing to me.


If you want to define what I'm doing as stealing, then so be it, but I don't see it that way. Uber PAX can get their money back from Uber with a simple email, in which case the only one taking a hit is Uber.

**
Also, I'm adding an edit to this post for the sake of saving us some time and posts. I really want to stress the point that more often than not, the cancellation is legitimate. The person is not ready to go and in my car within 5 minutes. Therefore, Uber may very well say to the rider: "you've already had your one time courtesy reversal, we show that the driver was at the pin drop location making an honest attempt at finding you, therefore, you will NOT be receiving a refund".

The bottom line is this: if you're not ready, it's YOUR fault. Part of the reason the fares are so low, is because the system allows for MAXIMUM efficiency. Being ready and able to find someone by GPS is much more efficient than a centralized cab service. That's the whole point! If you're not ready, you're wasting everyone's time. You should be on the curb, looking at your phone, ready to go. When I ride on these services, I am always ready to go immediately. I never waste the driver's time and make it as efficient as possible.

_*It is the rider's responsibility to correctly place the pin and be ready to locate the driver, not the other way around. *_

So to all of you who complain about the measly 5 dollars, of which we only get 4, you're wrong. You're flat out inconsiderate and you're wrong. Zero sympathy here.


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## UberLou

maxista said:


> That's not a common occurrence and happens less than 5% of the time.


But it's an occurrence none the less


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## dpv

It's not a game.


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## maxista

UberLou said:


> But it's an occurrence none the less


Yes, and in the grand scheme of things, it helps me the driver, a lot more than it hurts the PAX. Consider it a repatriation of all the tips I never received and that the PAX never gave. At the end of the day, it's 5 messily bucks, which they can get back, and which Uber will take the hit for.


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## maxista

PTUber said:


> What a dick! Please take your 1 advice and quit!


LOL! The real dicks are Uber for lowering the rates and passengers who never tip and who are OK using a service that enslaves their drivers! This is clever, smart way of fighting back, and frankly, you guys are seriously taking this way out of proportion.


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## maxista

dpv said:


> It's not a game.


Actually, it is a game. Life is a game my friend. Gamifying makes things more fun and interesting.


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## maxista

Dts08 said:


> His deactivation is fore - coming


300+ cancellations and counting, not a single email from Uber giving me any kind of warning.


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## maxista

Uberest said:


> I've made this point before -- there is one very large error in your thinking Maxsista. To the extent you inconvenience pax, so that the pax comes to think less of Uber, you are screwing your brother and sister drivers as well as your self. Why? Because that pax is less likely to use uber in the future if he has a bad/crooked experience with you. That reduces the rideshare market, meaning fewer pings for all over time. The pax talks to his buds, his fam, etc. You are hurting the MARKET. You are hurting OTHER DRIVERS in exchange for a short term feel good for you.


I completely disagree, getting people off Uber brings them onto other platforms. One of two things will happen:
1. They will use Lyft, which is better for us, or:
2. They will become a more efficient and grateful rider, which is also better for us.

Not only am I not screwing anyone over but Uber, I am helping my fellow drivers. I am not hurting the market, I am influencing the market in a way that benefits drivers. If this PAX talks to his buds, then his buds may try other platforms like Lyft or FARE.

You guys think Uber got here by playing nice and fair? Wake up. What I'm doing is bold, smart and has the best intentions.


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## saucy05

If you have such a bad experience with Uber why don't you just quit? It is not like they are holding a gun to your head. What you are doing is just plain old robbing people no matter how you try to justify it.


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## maxista

saucy05 said:


> If you have such a bad experience with Uber why don't you just quit? It is not like they are holding a gun to your head. What you are doing is just plain old robbing people no matter how you try to justify it.


I don't just drive for Uber, I drive for 2 other companies, FARE and Lyft. I do this full time and I enjoy it. I'm fighting their aggressive duplicitous attitudes, and their bullying of drivers, by taking advantage of the weaknesses on their system. There's nothing wrong with I'm doing, in fact what I'm doing is noble. I am not stealing from customers; customers can get their $5 back from Uber. I am forcing Uber to treat me better by helping myself and by adopting policies that will result in a better experience for drivers. I suppose that since I'm talking to people who see themselves primarily as individual consumers with an everyone out for themselves mentality, I shouldn't be surprised by your attitudes to suggest that I cut and run.

I do quit for Uber by the way, I don't drive for them as often as I could, instead opting to drive for their competitors, and I am using their own platform to promote other platforms. If more drivers did what I do, things would improve for drivers.

You do realize that Uber's ultimate goal is to get rid of all its drivers? Drivers which they used to get super filthy rich? At the end of the day, the a few passengers experience a minor inconvenience for what I do. On a grand scale, it hurts Uber, and only Uber. Wake up.


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## UberLou

maxista said:


> Yes, and in the grand scheme of things, it helps me the driver, a lot more than it hurts the PAX. Consider it a repatriation of all the tips I never received and that the PAX never gave. At the end of the day, it's 5 messily bucks, which they can get back, and which Uber will take the hit for.


You seriously need to be deactivated. I am not trying to be confrontational but you really do not need to be doing this.


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## MikesUber

UberLou said:


> Experience has nothing to do being crooked. Rationalize it any way you want to you are stealing. I don't agree with that at all. I am not happy with the way Uber has done business but I will not punish riders for what you refer to as a bigger cause.
> 
> Ultimately we are all consumers and I would hate this done to me by other employees from other businesses that are going through the same struggles as we do as drivers.
> 
> To each his own but I pity anyone that follows your advise.





PTUber said:


> What a dick! Please take your 1 advice and quit!





Uberest said:


> I've made this point before -- there is one very large error in your thinking Maxsista. To the extent you inconvenience pax, so that the pax comes to think less of Uber, you are screwing your brother and sister drivers as well as your self. Why? Because that pax is less likely to use uber in the future if he has a bad/crooked experience with you. That reduces the rideshare market, meaning fewer pings for all over time. The pax talks to his buds, his fam, etc. You are hurting the MARKET. You are hurting OTHER DRIVERS in exchange for a short term feel good for you.


lol glad the majority feel the same way. You're being a massive a*sshole bro. Just quit instead of trying to d*ck over every passenger for not making a 1-2 minute window when they're allowed a full 5 minute wait time. Very underhanded tactics and highly unethical. Please continue to rationalize this as you please (i.e. Uber is worse, time is money, pax fault for not being ready).


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## maxista

UberLou said:


> You seriously need to be deactivated. I am not trying to be confrontational but you really do not need to be doing this.


Your moral compass needs adjustment. I am not the crook here. Uber is.


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## maxista

MikesUber said:


> lol glad the majority feel the same way. You're being a massive a*sshole bro. Just quit instead of trying to d*ck over every passenger for not making a 1-2 minute window when they're allowed a full 5 minute wait time. Very underhanded tactics and highly unethical. Please continue to rationalize this as you please (i.e. Uber is worse, time is money, pax fault for not being ready).


You guys have a such an oedipus complex. Highly unethical? Using a platform as a consumer that takes willful and deliberate advantage of millions of people worldwide is unethical. Guess what? When I need a ride, I don't use Uber. Just like I don't shop at Walmart. I completely disagree with all your guys' assessments, you are looking at things in a way that doesn't make sense. Explain to me what you're offended by exactly? Customer has lost $5 momentarily because they weren't ready? Customer has to send an email to Uber? What about the other tactics I mentioned? You guys are all focused on the cancellation aspect as though it's only thing I'm doing. It's 5 messily dollars, you guys have never had anyone in your lives swindle for you for a hell of a lot more? What a joke. LOL. What are you even defending here?


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## gravelaine

As a passenger, I am not surprised drivers are doing this. While I am, I would say, a good passenger, Uber has created this environment which was not necessary. For example, in Arizona which maxista apparently is from, Uber just lowered the rates down to 75 cents a mile. I received an email from Uber telling me how happy I should be for new lower _*affordable *_rates. I was baffled as the rates were already very affordable. I found out later from a driver, Uber sent drivers in Phoenix an email stating "Winter Slump" so they are lowering rates. Well, as a resident from Phoenix for two decades, I can tell you from January until April, it is the high season with all resorts and hotels being full (Phoenix Open, Barrett Jackson Show, Spring training).

Anyways, when a company is not being upfront or even lie with you, this is the environment it creates. Regarding the cancellation, some would say it is border line unethical, but the passenger as myself have control about our cancellation. If I see the driver drive the opposite direction, I just cancel. Of course, I could call yellow cab and get a 15 to 45 mins waiting estimate. In the end, ride share is still faster and cheaper. I just use Lyft now anyways as I am able to tip drivers.

Also, let me tell you about riders not knowing to tip. The knowledge about tips not being included in the fares is now known to most riders who take Uber, but instead they still rather not tip. It is like your Miranda Rights, everyone know they have them before the police even cite it.

My three cents.


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## UberLou

Two wrongs never make a right. I hate to use that cliche however it applies here. You do not stoop to that level just because Uber does. In my opinion that makes you worse than Uber because you admittedly know it is wrong but do it anyway using Uber as your excuse. 

I would love for you to use that rational when you are standing in front of St. Peter at the pearly gates.


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## maxista

UberLou said:


> Two wrongs never make a right. I hate to use that cliche however it applies here. You do not stoop to that level just because Uber does. In my opinion that makes you worse than Uber because you admittedly know it is wrong but do it anyway using Uber as your excuse.
> 
> I would love for you to use that rational when you are standing in front of St. Peter at the pearly gates.


Dude what? St. Peter at the pearly gates? You're not kidding are you? I'm worse than Uber because I work it to make a few extra bucks? You don't think they know what they're doing? You and I live in two different universes. In my universe, I'm not committing any "wrongs". In my universe, Uber decision makers know exactly what they are doing. In your universe, you seem to believe that:
a. consumers bear no responsibility for using a service that exploits their workers.
b. Uber is some benevolent force that doesn't understand the consequences of their decisions.
c. St. Peter's unicorn is about to take you on a rainbow ride to heaven and I'm about to be struck down by the mighty force of the angry lord who resents slaves standing up for themselves.

You sir, are so far off the mark, it makes me wonder, what's your angle? How many rides have you given? What hours do you drive? Do you drive?


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## maxista

UberLou said:


> I do not believe you are not a driver.


Check this out:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/help-4-drivers-made-me-cancel-fairs-now-got-a-cancel-fee.45157/

Case and point. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Let's not act like this isn't already happening on a grand scale.


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## ten25

I decided to choose #1 - other than some very specific situations with regular pax that has to stay within a budget (his company pays for trips) ...

Now, I work for a local cab company and make more than I did driving for Uber - the cab company also is getting more money each week than Uber was getting.

Just quit Uber and work for the cab companies.


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## maxista

ten25 said:


> I decided to choose #1 - other than some very specific situations with regular pax that has to stay within a budget (his company pays for trips) ...
> 
> Now, I work for a local cab company and make more than I did driving for Uber - the cab company also is getting more money each week than Uber was getting.
> 
> Just quit Uber and work for the cab companies.


I still do well my friend.


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## scrurbscrud

Dts08 said:


> His deactivation is fore - coming


Drivers can slide for awhile on cancel rates, but if they are consistently under 80% they'll get scratched from the system eventually. 3 weeks or more with 80% or less accept/complete fares will usually start the deactivation ball rolling.

Also hitting arrived before arriving is an easy mark for Uber to pick up on the GPS system, so I wouldn't advise that either. Might be a weak spot if Uber isn't flagging it, but once attention is drawn to the driver they can look. Pretty sure they employ tracking stats that drivers are not privy to. Like how much time a driver may sit after getting a ping. How the travel goes according to the estimated time and real time, etc etc. Probably LOTTSA stats of this nature.

If a driver wants to drive, then drive. If not, don't. If a driver does drive they should take a little pride and consideration in their work regardless.


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## maxista

scrurbscrud said:


> Drivers can slide for awhile on cancel rates, but if they are consistently under 80% they'll get scratched from the system eventually. 3 weeks or more with 80% or less accept/complete fares will usually start the deactivation ball rolling.
> 
> Also hitting arrived before arriving is an easy mark for Uber to pick up on the GPS system, so I wouldn't advise that either. Might be a weak spot if Uber isn't flagging it, but once attention is drawn to the driver they can look. Pretty sure they employ tracking stats that drivers are not privy to. Like how much time a driver may sit after getting a ping. How the travel goes according to the estimated time and real time, etc etc. Probably LOTTSA stats of this nature.
> 
> If a driver wants to drive, then drive. If not, don't. If a driver does drive they should take a little pride and consideration in their work regardless.


My acceptance rates are well above 90%. I've never had a problem. When I'm at the location, cancelling on a PAX for a "no show" does not count against acceptance rates. Again, I've been doing this for months. Never once had a warning.


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## Lydmav

Can I just say... BRAVO. I can't pay my bills with "niceness" (aka letting people walk all over me with their sense of entitlement). If riders don't give a shit about you, why the hell shouldn't you return the favor? Everything you said is spot on. If the riders treat you with respect, return that. Karma is a make believe guilt trip. No good deed goes unpunished. My time is worth as much to me as a passengers is to them, and if they don'y want to pay/ treat me accordingly, they can find someone else to be their slave. I'm not MEAN, I'm actually very friendly. I just won't be used and taken advantage of*. I've made a full time living as an independent contractor for years now, obviously I'm doing something right. Thanks for ideas on improving! GREAT POST!

*most especially not by the companies.


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## UberXTampa

Uber is a technology company and the new trend in IT is to build highly available systems using commodity software/hardware in abundance and at a high redundancy. The UberX model is a direct extension of this exact paradigm into TNC: if I have every driver, every car so unimportant and such a small piece of the system, the system will continue to work with the happy drivers. 

I think they need to re-evaluate the implementation of this paradigm to ride sharing. Rates are so low that, it is an insult and self esteem destruction to drive people around under current circumstances.


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## maxista

Lydmav said:


> Can I just say... BRAVO. I can't pay my bills with "niceness" (aka letting people walk all over me with their sense of entitlement). If riders don't give a shit about you, why the hell shouldn't you return the favor? Everything you said is spot on. If the riders treat you with respect, return that. Karma is a make believe guilt trip. No good deed goes unpunished. My time is worth as much to me as a passengers is to them, and if they don'y want to pay/ treat me accordingly, they can find someone else to be their slave. I'm not MEAN, I'm actually very friendly. I just won't be used and taken advantage of*. I've made a full time living as an independent contractor for years now, obviously I'm doing something right. Thanks for ideas on improving! GREAT POST!
> 
> *most especially not by the companies.


Thank god. I was beginning to think that this forum was mostly trolls. Thank you for your support and understanding. I completely understand where you're coming from and what you're saying. You're absolutely right about the riders and the sense of entitlement they bring to the equation, which is encouraged by Uber. If you were in Phoenix, I would recruit you to start driving for FARE. I am just like you, if people treat me with decency and respect, I will go out of my way for them and treat them very well. Despite what these trolls and alarmists are saying, I am easily able to maintain a decent rating. My comments are very positive, and people generally like me because I am raw, honest and real. People find my down to earth nature very refreshing! Thank you again for your support and know you're not alone out there!


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## gravelaine

UberLou said:


> I do not believe you are not a driver.


I don't care what you think Travis.


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## UberLou

maxista said:


> Dude what? St. Peter at the pearly gates? You're not kidding are you? I'm worse than Uber because I work it to make a few extra bucks? You don't think they know what they're doing? You and I live in two different universes. In my universe, I'm not committing any "wrongs". In my universe, Uber decision makers know exactly what they are doing. In your universe, you seem to believe that:
> a. consumers bear no responsibility for using a service that exploits their workers.
> b. Uber is some benevolent force that doesn't understand the consequences of their decisions.
> c. St. Peter's unicorn is about to take you on a rainbow ride to heaven and I'm about to be struck down by the mighty force of the angry lord who resents slaves standing up for themselves.
> 
> You sir, are so far off the mark, it makes me wonder, what's your angle? How many rides have you given? What hours do you drive? Do you drive?


Whatever helps you sleep at night.


----------



## gravelaine

UberLou said:


> If you didn't care you wouldn't have responded.


Of course I care about this topic reason why I responded the first time. On the other hand, I do not care what you believe in regards to me being a passenger or not.

I'd suggest staying on topic otherwise you are showing you have nothing better to argue over.

But I have to admit, I did not expect someone replying the way you did as far as me not being a passenger. You gave me a good laugh Travis.


----------



## gravelaine

UberLou said:


> Whatever helps you sleep at night.


I see another well educated and well thought out reply. Probably a good thing you stick with driving.


----------



## Digits

Uber and Lyft spiders are crawling around the internet especially forums like these to sniff out the bad apples that are poisoning their businesses. No company welcomes traitors and for that matter, Lyft would consider you as a threat as well irrespective of you promoting them on uber platform.Tomorrow you could be sending Lyft pax to FARE or whatever competition may it be. I wouldn't consider it a very smart move to post such strategy openly on a public forum infested by these company's insiders with your details of specific market and statements from them. I would offer you my sympathies in the thread you post about random deactivation. Don't get me wrong, it's just a warning you should heed from fellow drivers who may not be as smart as yourself but are sailing in the same boat in which you're drilling a hole.


----------



## gravelaine

UberLou said:


> See you show your hand, a rider would never call me Travis. You're caught now move on. Plus show some originality in your attempts to insult someone. Travis, really?? My 4 year old can do better than that.


Oh gosh, you just do not quit Travis. I must be a driver because I called you Travis..... Yes that must be it.
Read the newspaper, open a book and you will find a lot of good information about the world. You might even potentially educate yourself, though, the way you respond to my comments, tells me it might be a lost cause. 
Please, make sure at least get your child through college so he does opens his mind a little more than you.

If that is how you treat your passenger than I can't see lasting too much longer.


----------



## gravelaine

UberLou said:


> You do not know jack about me so do no presume that I drive for a living. I am not one of these morons trying to work Uber full-time and then blame the system because I put all my eggs in one basket. It is part-time supplemental income only and anyone that says otherwise is kidding themselves.


Oh no. Now you are insulting the same people that do the same work as you. I am sorry for you that you believe drivers who work full time for Uber are morons.

I think you are not going to be a favorite for most people in this forum.


----------



## UberLou

maxista said:


> Thank god. I was beginning to think that this forum was mostly trolls. Thank you for your support and understanding. I completely understand where you're coming from and what you're saying. You're absolutely right about the riders and the sense of entitlement they bring to the equation, which is encouraged by Uber. If you were in Phoenix, I would recruit you to start driving for FARE. I am just like you, if people treat me with decency and respect, I will go out of my way for them and treat them very well. Despite what these trolls and alarmists are saying, I am easily able to maintain a decent rating. My comments are very positive, and people generally like me because I am raw, honest and real. People find my down to earth nature very refreshing! Thank you again for your support and know you're not alone out there!


PS Change your avatar, if you are going to post things like this you shouldn't use the same avatar as other places on the internet. A simple Google Search by photo revealed your full name and where you are from.

I may disagree with your views but I would want everyone here to have some level of anonymity.


----------



## Tommy Tours

maxista said:


> First, a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> 
> 1. Quit.
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> 2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> 3. Cancellations.
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Here is what you can achieve in very little time with this method:
> View attachment 27527
> View attachment 27528
> 
> Notice that I am at 50% cancellation rate. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals. Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> 4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> 5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better. Here's a screenshot of my totals in 9 months.
> View attachment 27531
> 
> I have removed my codes for obvious reasons.
> 
> Some other thoughts:
> - A brief comment on the strikes.
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> - On the ratings.
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, will get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> - On More Radical Techniques.
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


Very nice, one thing Uber changed was the arrival button doesn't exist now.


----------



## maxista

Digits said:


> Uber and Lyft spiders are crawling around the internet especially forums like these to sniff out the bad apples that are poisoning their businesses. No company welcomes traitors and for that matter, Lyft would consider you as a threat as well irrespective of you promoting them on uber platform.Tomorrow you could be sending Lyft pax to FARE or whatever competition may it be. I wouldn't consider it a very smart move to post such strategy openly on a public forum infested by these company's insiders with your details of specific market and statements from them. I would offer you my sympathies in the thread you post about random deactivation. Don't get me wrong, it's just a warning you should heed from fellow drivers who may not be as smart as yourself but are sailing in the same boat in which you're drilling a hole.


I'm going to assume that this is directed at me. Tell me, Mr. Digits, do you really think someone like me isn't aware of that? How do you suppose that these "spiders" are going to find out who I am? You think I'd be stupid enough to post personally identifiable information on this site? Even if they could obtain the email address I used to register on this forum, do you think I'm dumb enough to use the one I use for Uber?

You have no idea what you're saying. You think I'm poisoning their businesses? Please, they are poisonin their own businesses. You are clueless. They have no idea who I am, they have no way of finding out, and there are many other drivers doing what I do. I've told Lyft outright I'm referring Uber riders to their platform, they know, they like it. The way these guys do business is like war.

You need to realize once and for all that we are not employees. Let that sink in. We are not beholden to any of these contractors.


----------



## maxista

Tommy Tours said:


> Very nice, one thing Uber changed was the arrival button doesn't exist now.


It does on my app.


----------



## maxista

UberLou said:


> PS Change your avatar, if you are going to post things like this you shouldn't use the same avatar as other places on the internet. A simple Google Search by photo revealed your full name and where you are from.
> 
> I may disagree with your views but I would want everyone here to have some level of anonymity.


Only good thing you've said thus far. Thanks.


----------



## Greguzzi

Bernie would be proud of you, maxista!


----------



## maxista

Greguzzi said:


> Bernie would be proud of you, maxista!


Feel the Bern Baby!


----------



## maxista

Sinister Minister said:


> Uber isn't a game? Are you kidding?


Finally, the voices of reason are coming through!


----------



## osii

MAXISTA is my HERO

Stay strong dude. You are spot on with your ideas.


----------



## maxista

Sinister Minister said:


> Because I generally enjoy Lyft riders so much more than Uber riders, I regularly change course en route to an Uber pick up if I get a Lyft ping. My car...my decision.


Exactly, and while you're at it, drive by the Uber pick up, start timer on Uber Pax, wait 5 mins, cancel, charge, repeat. LOL! BOOM!


----------



## osii

I'm tired from driving all day in PHX.

But I love the hit arrive minutes before you arrive. I used to drive for uber and never once had someone come out until 5 minutes or more. Even if they were at a bar.

More to come. If everyone did what Maxista did, this would be a much better world.


----------



## maxista

osii said:


> MAXISTA is my HERO
> 
> Stay strong dude. You are spot on with your ideas.


You can do it too! Follow my advice, and remember, you're doing this to pay the bills, not to make friends or be nice! That doesn't mean you should be mean to people, just don't let Uber PAX push you around!


----------



## maxista

osii said:


> I'm tired from driving all day in PHX.
> 
> But I love the hit arrive minutes before you arrive. I used to drive for uber and never once had someone come out until 5 minutes or more. Even if they were at a bar.
> 
> More to come. If everyone did what Maxista did, this would be a much better world.


Yes!! Make them learn the hard way, that is, with their time and wallets! Be ready to go or bye! I've cancelled and charged them while they chatted outside the car with their friends smoking a cigarette numerous times! If they're not in the car by minute 5 (well more like 4:30 ), tap cancel, tap no show, and go! If everyone did this, the PAX would learn and adjust!


----------



## hybridman06

Why would anyone tip your sorry ass?



maxista said:


> Yes, and in the grand scheme of things, it helps me the driver, a lot more than it hurts the PAX. Consider it a repatriation of all the tips I never received and that the PAX never gave. At the end of the day, it's 5 messily bucks, which they can get back, and which Uber will take the hit for.


----------



## Abraxas79

maxista said:


> My acceptance rates are well above 90%. I've never had a problem. When I'm at the location, cancelling on a PAX for a "no show" does not count against acceptance rates. Again, I've been doing this for months. Never once had a warning.


The other dude doesn't understand the difference between acceptance and completion. I understand the frustration. How many times on a weekend with surges is some PAX making you wait. You can see them smoking a cigarette, finishing a drink, talking, doing everything but getting their ass into the car. Yes, they make it in before the 5 minutes not giving you the satisfaction of cancelling as they are walking out to your car.

I may not do what Maxista does but I can understand why he does it. I too count a successful run based on the amount of cancellations I have. When I first started, I did the texting and calling and all that bullshit, and not a single time is it appreciated. I will answer the phone if they call, but they 5 minutes and not any longer.

If nothing else perhaps it will teach PAX to be ready. Incidentally, if the roles were reversed, I would never deliberately make someone wait, because I thought they are lowly UBER driver and their time has no value. Nor would I make a cabbie wait or anyone else. Its called common consideration.


----------



## maxista

hybridman06 said:


> Why would anyone tip your sorry ass?


I get more tips than you think. In fact, I get a lot more than most drivers I'm sure. Why are you here trolling around? Oh let me see, you just started driving with your hybrid and now you think you know about Uber and customer service? Let's see how that turns out after 3300 rides.


----------



## sellkatsell44

Even before I read your post I would always fight any cancellation fees. Not that I cancel (I'm perfectly happy to wait for more then 5 minutes, and anywhere towards twenty).

But I have had a driver in NYC, cancel on me, probably doing the same trick you are, thinking I would cancel on him--after a certain time though, he got $10. I ordered another uber, fought for the $10, and won.

It's not even a matter of $$. As yesterday I had to cancel an uber because my friend picked me up instead and I paid the cancellation fee of course.

It's the principal.

I don't blame uber. I blame the stupid driver. Yeah, I said it. I met a LOT of awesome ones, but for the few bad ones that decides to "game" the system in this way, they're stupid and the passengers who don't fight the cancellation fees are even more stupid (sadly).


----------



## maxista

sellkatsell44 said:


> Even before I read your post I would always fight any cancellation fees. Not that I cancel (I'm perfectly happy to wait for more then 5 minutes, and anywhere towards twenty).
> 
> But I have had a driver in NYC, cancel on me, probably doing the same trick you are, thinking I would cancel on him--after a certain time though, he got $10. I ordered another uber, fought for the $10, and won.
> 
> It's not even a matter of $$. As yesterday I had to cancel an uber because my friend picked me up instead and I paid the cancellation fee of course.
> 
> It's the principal.
> 
> I don't blame uber. I blame the stupid driver. Yeah, I said it. I met a LOT of awesome ones, but for the few bad ones that decides to "game" the system in this way, they're stupid and the passengers who don't fight the cancellation fees are even more stupid (sadly).


You're not quite understanding where I'm coming from. This is about Rate Cuts, not cancellations. There's a lot more here than cancellations. Cancellations are a strategy. Yes, you're right about one thing, it is a matter of principle, we just have different principles.


----------



## tohellwithu

Why am i wasting my time and follow the monkey rule to make money when I am already a donkey long time ago.


----------



## Hkdman

I am all in favor of "gaming" the system and educating riders. But some of what you do is just downright dishonest. Gives everyone a bad name.



maxista said:


> First, a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> 
> 1. Quit.
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> 2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> 3. Cancellations.
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Here is what you can achieve in very little time with this method:
> View attachment 27527
> View attachment 27528
> 
> Notice that I am at 50% cancellation rate. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals. Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> 4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> 5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better. Here's a screenshot of my totals in 9 months.
> View attachment 27531
> 
> I have removed my codes for obvious reasons.
> 
> Some other thoughts:
> - A brief comment on the strikes.
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> - On the ratings.
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, will get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> - On More Radical Techniques.
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


----------



## Hkdman

maxista said:


> Being Crooked? I hardly think that canceling on people who aren't ready is being crooked. That's really pushing the limits of the term "crooked". I mean if anyone is crooked, it's Uber, not some bloke canceling on PAX who aren't ready to roll wasting their driver's time. You pity people who follow my advice? Your pity is misplaced, it's actually fun working on the edges of what is within the rules and what is not.
> 
> If you take a Lyft ride, you'll notice a system message advising the rider to be ready and OUTSIDE at the time of arrival. My way of doing things just makes riders on Uber more aware that they need to be ready, which helps out the next driver, because the PAX will now be more aware that they need to be ready and it will make the next driver's experience more efficient.


You are being crooked. Read all of the posts. Most people are telling you the same thing. So either the vast majority of us have our priorities wrong...or you do. Yes - if a PAX emails Uber, they will get there money back. But as you said, most PAX won't go through the trouble. So do you put your mind at ease that because they don't email uber than it is ok? Give me a frickin break.


----------



## maxista

Hkdman said:


> You are being crooked. Read all of the posts. Most people are telling you the same thing. So either the vast majority of us have our priorities wrong...or you do. Yes - if a PAX emails Uber, they will get there money back. But as you said, most PAX won't go through the trouble. So do you put your mind at ease that because they don't email uber than it is ok? Give me a frickin break.


First, I don't believe there is a majority of people who agree with you.
Second, even if there was, majority does not determine morality. 
Third, yes, you are wrong. You are wrong because you do not understand the bigger battle at stake.

You are not paying attention to the larger issues that are causing me and other drivers to behave this way. Your response is not only unconvincing, it reveals that you've made no effort to understand the bigger picture.


----------



## maxista

Hkdman said:


> I am all in favor of "gaming" the system and educating riders. But some of what you do is just downright dishonest. Gives everyone a bad name.


Who is this "everyone"? The ones who should be focused on here is Uber and the morally repugnant low rates. You guys are incapable of understanding the larger forces at play here. This is typical blame the worker/victim mentality, when the problem is much larger and the causes much more profound. Look around at the threads on this forum, this kind of behavior is the norm now, I'm just making it openly and proactively systematic.


----------



## McLovin

There are a lot of holes springing up in that dike Uber created with unintended consequences of lowering fares. Totally understandable. Those that don't haven't endured rate cuts, rates that even the passengers had no issue with. 

Whenever there is case law made, it was usually from an incident a govt. agency created to circumvent people's rights. Same goes for why unions were created. Travis is protected as he's been down this road with Napster. It's the investors that will take the hit. History wasn't their major apparently.


----------



## maxista

McLovin said:


> There are a lot of holes springing up in that dike Uber created with unintended consequences of lowering fares. Totally understandable. Those that don't haven't endured rate cuts, rates that even the passengers had no issue with.
> 
> Whenever there is case law made, it was usually from an incident a govt. agency created to circumvent people's rights. Same goes for why unions were created. Travis is protected as he's been down this road with Napster. It's the investors that will take the hit. History wasn't their major apparently.


Almost everyone who disagrees here is either:
a. a part time driver with little at stake in this game
b. a rider with a sense of consumerist entitlement (which I could write about for days)

Thank you for our support. I know there are a lot more drivers who feel this way who don't want to say it publicly.


----------



## McLovin

maxista said:


> Almost everyone who disagrees here is either:
> a. a part time driver with little at stake in this game
> b. a rider with a sense of consumerist entitlement (which I could write about for days)
> 
> Thank you for our support. I know there are a lot more drivers who feel this way who don't want to say it publicly.


A lot of this non-sense goes away simply by adjusting the fares back to more than a minimum wage job but they are on a kamikaze mission and can't turn back now.


----------



## maxista

McLovin said:


> A lot of this non-sense goes away simply by adjusting the fares back to more than a minimum wage but they are on a kamikaze mission and can't turn back now.


Exactly. This is typical American logic, blame the symptom, not the root cause. All they have to do, is make the fares fair, and I will happily wait. Allow riders to tip, by giving them an option, and I will happily wait. It's not that complicated.


----------



## Aimless

maxista said:


> Who is this "everyone"? The ones who should be focused on here is Uber and the morally repugnant low rates. You guys are incapable of understanding the larger forces at play here. This is typical blame the worker/victim mentality, when the problem is much larger and the causes much more profound. Look around at the threads on this forum, this kind of behavior is the norm now, I'm just making it systematic.


This I agree with. Maybe you don't like exploiting the cancellation fee or maybe you cheer it. Either way understand that this is a symptom... a reaction to the larger issue. That being the dishonest, manipulative and even illegal way Uber conducts itself. Towards drivers, riders and the public.

This type of behavior by drivers is indeed rapidly becoming the norm. How many "sabotage-Uber-before-you-quit" threads have we seen now? And this community is just a small fraction of what is going on all over.

None of what maxista has suggested is new. All he has done is organize these ideas and list them out.


----------



## McLovin

Ha, if people think what you do is offensive, they should visit the New Jersey forum. You're a piker compared to what some of those guys are now doing.


----------



## arto71

For Those who defend uber and its KGB style practices, I advice them to read this .

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber...ense-plates-of-protesting-drivers-cars.58768/

And this is want is coming your way if you try to voice your opinion
*Driver says Uber targeted his profile after he critiqued high-level executive*
*http://www.sfexaminer.com/driver-sa...file-after-he-critiqued-high-level-executive/*
maxista , I would have to say ,you got a little bit excessive cancelation rate.


----------



## UberHammer

There is a place reserved in Hell for people who defend Uber. It's right below Travis Kalanick's condo where you can all smell his toilet dumps due to there being no plumbing.


----------



## maxista

Aimless said:


> This I agree with. Maybe you don't like exploiting the cancellation fee or maybe you cheer it. Either way understand that this is a symptom... a reaction to the larger issue. That being the dishonest, manipulative and even illegal way Uber conducts itself. Towards drivers, riders and the public.
> 
> This type of behavior by drivers is indeed rapidly becoming the norm. How many "sabotage-Uber-before-you-quit" threads have we seen now? And this community is just a small fraction of what is going on all over.
> 
> None of what maxista has suggested is new. All he has done is organize these ideas and list them out.


Yep. It's not new, I didn't claim it was.

We agree that Uber is dishonest, manipulative and illegal in the ways it operates, and I'm just giving them a taste of their own medicine.

Do I like exploiting it? Sometimes. When riders think I'm going to sit there and wait for them while they finish their smoke or conversation, you betcha I like it. I'll drive away with a smile and cancel as soon as my timer rings. Bye! Other times it's just a part of the job.


----------



## maxista

arto71 said:


> For Those who defend uber and its KGB style practices, I advice them to read this .
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber...ense-plates-of-protesting-drivers-cars.58768/
> 
> And this is want is coming your way if you try to voice your opinion
> *Driver says Uber targeted his profile after he critiqued high-level executive*
> *http://www.sfexaminer.com/driver-sa...file-after-he-critiqued-high-level-executive/*
> maxista , I would have to say ,you got a little bit excessive cancelation rate.


The ageless battle of the "owners" employing their spies and bullies to do their dirty work. It's as ageless as the wheel.


----------



## UberHammer

Every revolt in history included actions that some people finding revolting. The etymology of the words revolt and revolting trace back to the same source. So does the word revolution.

We celebrate every July 4th the revolution that gave us freedom in this country. Yet while the American revolution was occurring there were a lot of people, even people living on the American continent, that found the actions being done by the revolution to be revolting.

When this is all said an done, Uber and other companies in this new "sharing economy" will find themselves in the history books next the companies in the industrial revolution that led to the forming of Union and labor rights laws. Anyone who does not understand why what Uber is doing is so evil is ignoring history.


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## ivanp

I can't believe how many people here are defending Uber against the OP. Y'all need to wake up and take a look around. Do you think there are *any* executives at Uber who are standing up for the best interest of the driver? In case there's any doubt at this point, the answer is NO. So why are you standing up for Uber?

Uber's core business value is class warfare. In Uber's eyes, it's the Uber against the drivers, plain and simple. Their long-term goal is to eliminate the driver and their short term goal is to exploit the drivers as much as possible. Consumers can get caught up in the cross-fire, but if Uber didn't throw the first 50 punches, we wouldn't be in this struggle.

What we need now is unity amongst the drivers. Any non-violent, legal, tactics that help drivers, should be whole-heartedly embraced by the community. And the OP has done a great service by making this post.


----------



## maxista

ivanp said:


> I can't believe how many people here are defending Uber against the OP. Y'all need to wake up and take a look around. Do you think there are *any* executives at Uber who are standing up for the best interest of the driver? In case there's any doubt at this point, the answer is NO. So why are you standing up for Uber?
> 
> Uber's core business value is class warfare. In Uber's eyes, it's the Uber against the drivers, plain and simple. Their long-term goal is to eliminate the driver and their short term goal is to exploit the drivers as much as possible. Consumers can get caught up in the cross-fire, but if Uber didn't throw the first 50 punches, we wouldn't be in this struggle.
> 
> What we need now is unity amongst the drivers. Any non-violent, legal, tactics that help drivers, should be whole-heartedly embraced by the community. And the OP has done a great service by making this post.


I couldn't agree more. There are much more profound issues at stake here. Brilliant.


----------



## maxista

UberHammer said:


> Every revolt in history included actions that some people finding revolting. The etymology of the words revolt and revolting trace back to the same source. So does the word revolution.
> 
> We celebrate every July 4th the revolution that gave us freedom in this country. Yet while the American revolution was occurring there were a lot of people, even people living on the American continent, that found the actions being done by the revolution to be revolting.
> 
> When this is all said an done, Uber and other companies in this new "sharing economy" will find themselves in the history books next the companies in the industrial revolution that led to the forming of Union and labor rights laws. Anyone who does not understand why what Uber is doing is so evil is ignoring history.


What works against us, is the vile, terrible and willful ignorance of so many Americans who do not know their own history. Most people have absolutely no idea whatsoever, that the things they take for granted, things like health care insurance, paid time off, worker safety laws, were achieved by people like me who stood their grounds and demanded better treatment from their bosses. This is in fact class warfare. One of the greatest myths in America, is that we're not in middle of a class war. We always have been, and at the moment, the lower classes are losing badly. What we're seeing taking place in the current election is an expression of this realizations, although painfully slow, that the establishment classes are hell bent on continuing the increased systematic exploitation that has such a strong foothold in the American psyche.

Uber hates their own drivers. Their goal, is to use us, to create enough wealth, to get rid of us.


----------



## Aimless

maxista said:


> Yep. It's not new, I didn't claim it was...


Yes you've said more than once you were just trying to make this systematic. And you certainly seem to have it down to a science at this point.

I can't add much to the list but I will make a special note about gated communities.

Never ever ever contact the rider to ask for the gate code. I confirm arrival and start my timer as I pull up to the gate. Even if it's still a mile or two from the actual address. More often than not I never receive a message with the gate code. Cancel - No Show.


----------



## Abraxas79

UberHammer said:


> There is a place reserved in Hell for people who defend Uber. It's right below Travis Kalanick's condo where you can all smell his toilet dumps due to there being no plumbing.


When all is said I done, I think Travis might be headed to Prison. We have seen companies in the past ie; Enron, behave not just unethically, but criminally, violating every law on the book. Right now he might still be wall street's darling, but things are gradually changing. The litigation is mounting against UBER. All it would take is one federal prosecutor to hit him with charges and then game over.


----------



## maxista

Aimless said:


> Yes you've said more than once you were just trying to make this systematic. And you certainly seem to have it down to a science at this point.
> 
> I can't add much to the list but I will make a special note about gated communities.
> 
> Never ever ever contact the rider to ask for the gate code. I confirm arrival and start my timer as I pull up to the gate. Even if it's still a mile or two from the actual address. More often than not I never receive a message with the gate code. Cancel - No Show.


You're right, I forgot that, I do the same thing. I never, ever, call the rider to receive the code. It is their responsibility to contact me, and to give me their instructions. If their instructions are not good enough, I will cancel and leave.

I once had a rider berate me with threats on this issue. He was angry, and probably drunk. He called me after 3 or 4 minutes of waiting at the gates. I picked up the call (sometimes I like a nice confrontation about something I feel strongly about) and in a very sarcastic and aggressive tone, he asked me if I was ever going to call him. He had clearly been watching me on the app sitting there, asking himself if I was ever going to call. I told him that that wasn't my job, at which point he exploded on me with rage. He claimed that the conversation was being recorded, and that he was going to contact Uber to have me fired for such "horrible customer service".

I've had similar interactions with PAX probably a dozen times now. These types of people think that we are at their beck and call, mostly because they are used to drivers being a lot more passive. I find it fun and liberating that I am often the first driver they encounter with the courage to stand up for myself and to give them a little taste of their own medicine.


----------



## galileo5

Maxista is right. I'm surprised he came up with all this in only nine months. I've been doing ridesharing since Aug 2014, and I hate myself for allowing to be taken advantage of.
Anyone condemning these great tips are either new, naive, a passenger, or an Uber employee.
Uber treats us like shit, and maxista gave us a great way to respond in-kind.
Thank you for your great advice.


----------



## JSM0713

IMHO.... I feel perfectly at ease calling the Pax a short ways out to determine where they are standing. If they tell me they're coming downstairs, I tell them my ETA. As far as I am concerned, once they've been notified I'm I'll be there they are on the clock. If I pull up to their location at or around the time I informed them... they will get another call or text. If they don't show up within 2=3 minutes of my arrival, after two notices... first hit the cancel button, then go straight to charge the rider for a no-show. I am not their freaking personal limo driver. I agree, hit them for the stinking $5.... they'll get the message. I also have a pet peave about the a-holes who have you drive all the way to the pickup location and cancel. UBER should charge these POS's for that... that stinks. Also, there's the dope that doesn't enter an address and you get a "Go to Pin" notice. I will go to the pin, if they're not there, one text mssg and if they don't respond.... bye bye, with a $5 no-show charge after 2 minutes.... That's so freaking lazy!!! And finally, the A-holes who ask for pool and then expect YOU to wait for them... that is such BS. Again, charge these jerks as a no-show... THIS IS NOT A FRIGGIN' LIMOUSINE SERVICE!!! This whole venture requires everyone to show respect for one another.


----------



## Aimless

maxista said:


> You're right, I forgot that, I do the same thing. I never, ever, call the rider to receive the code. It is their responsibility to contact me, and to give me their instructions. If their instructions are not good enough, I will cancel and leave.
> 
> I once had a rider berate me with threats on this issue. He was angry, and probably drunk. He called me after 3 or 4 minutes of waiting at the gates. I picked up the call (sometimes I like a nice confrontation about something I feel strongly about) and in a very sarcastic and aggressive tone, he asked me if I was ever going to call him. He had clearly been watching me on the app sitting there, asking himself if I was ever going to call. I told him that that wasn't my job, at which point he exploded on me with rage. He claimed that the conversation was being recorded, and that he was going to contact Uber to have me fired for such "horrible customer service".
> 
> I've had similar interactions with PAX probably a dozen times now. These types of people think that we are at their beck and call, mostly because they are used to drivers being a lot more passive. I find it fun and liberating that I am often the first driver they encounter with the courage to stand up for myself and to give them a little taste of their own medicine.


The sad and ridiculous thing is that if you were delivering a pizza you would have the code ahead of time. And probably receive a tip. But as ride share drivers we don't receive the same courtesy. It has become acceptable to not respect our time, or the service itself.

Honestly, I think it's a result of the rate cuts. If Uber, our "partner" doesn't value our time why should our customers?


----------



## maxista

galileo5 said:


> Maxista is right. I'm surprised he came up with all this in only nine months. I've been doing ridesharing since Aug 2014, and I hate myself for allowing to be taken advantage of.
> Anyone condemning these great tips are either new, naive, a passenger, or an Uber employee.
> Uber treats us like shit, and maxista gave us a great way to respond in-kind.
> Thank you for your great advice.


Don't give me too much credit, I'm certainly not the first to come up with these, many others have, but thank you for your support. I'm glad this motivates you to stand up to entitled PAX and Uber, that's what I was aiming for.

I tell you, I am very aggressive with riders once they are in my car, not necessarily in a negative way though. On the other platforms, I tell them all about how horrible Uber is, and reinforce their decision to use Lyft or Fare. I inform them, I empower them with knowledge and I reward their choice not to use Uber with positive reinforcement, honesty and enthusiasm. Of course if they're super wasted, or just a big group having fun, I won't even go there unless I am asked.

As for Uber riders, if I feel that they are interested in interacting, I will take the conversation in that direction. Also, I have a sign in my car. Check it out. I've had this up for a couple months. It's definitely increased my tips. I forgot to mention this as well in my original post.


----------



## JSM0713

maxista said:


> It is the riders responsibility to correctly place the pin and be ready to locate the driver, not the other way around.


i couldn't agree with this statement more than if I'd said it myself. I used to HATE "go to pin" requests. Now I run to them and pray they're not there.... give 'em a shot with a text or voice message... one! If they don't show... I'm gone.
This system has been made as user friendly for the PAX as possible. I personally think that the Pax that sends you a pin location is usually NOT at the place they say they are. I go to the Pin, wait a minute or two. Hit them up with a call as a courtesy, if they don't respond the call, or I get a voicemail, the ride is cancelled and Pax is hit with a no-show fee.... period. If they pick up your call and tell you they are far away, I feel I have the right to hit them with a cancel and no-show. Now, if they want the ride from the new location, sure I'll take the fare IF it works for me, meaning they aren't too far away. If they b**ch, I'm outta there.


----------



## maxista

Aimless said:


> The sad and ridiculous thing is that if you were delivering a pizza you would have the code ahead of time. And probably receive a tip. But as ride share drivers we don't receive the same courtesy. It has become acceptable to not respect our time, or the service itself.
> 
> Honestly, I think it's a result of the rate cuts. If Uber, our "partner" doesn't value our time why should our customers?


Once again we are in full agreement.


----------



## maxista

JSM0713 said:


> i couldn't agree with this statement more than if I'd said it myself. I used to HATE "go to pin" requests. Now I run to them and pray they're not there.... give 'em a shot with a text or voice message... one! If they don't show... I'm gone.
> This system has been made as user friendly for the PAX as possible. I personally think that the Pax that sends you a pin location is usually NOT at the place they say they are. I go to the Pin, wait a minute or two. Hit them up with a call as a courtesy, if they don't respond the call, or I get a voicemail, the ride is cancelled and Pax is hit with a no-show fee.... period. If they pick up your call and tell you they are far away, I feel I have the right to hit them with a cancel and no-show. Now, if they want the ride from the new location, sure I'll take the fare IF it works for me, meaning they aren't too far away. If they b**ch, I'm outta there.


You're "nicer" than I am. I quit calling them months ago. lol. Unless it's a surge of course, then I call them asap.


----------



## Uber Kraus

So Uber turned you into a self serving and entitled driver you say? Dear me! Uber has turned you into a petty thief! You'll want to consider a career change in the near future before you turn to more serious crimes like extortion or kidnapping! Shit, if you kidnap the right pax and hold them for ransom you could make it rain! blame it on the rate cuts. You've got an iron clad case there guy.


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## maxista

Uber Kraus said:


> So Uber turned you into a self serving and entitled driver you say? Dear me! Uber has turned you into a petty thief! You'll want to consider a career change in the near future before you turn to more serious crimes like extortion or kidnapping! Shit, if you kidnap the right pax and hold them for ransom you could make it rain! blame it on the rate cuts. You've got an iron clad case there guy.


And how exactly am I a thief?


----------



## HiFareLoRate

These rate cuts got me splitting my gum with Pax whenever they ask for it.

Pax: you got any gum?
Me: you got any gum for you and I?
Me: take a bigger bite of the piece of gum and hand it him/her the rest.

Saves cost of gum by 50% ever since!


----------



## Aimless

HiFareLoRate said:


> These rate cuts got me splitting my gum with Pax whenever they ask for it.
> 
> Pax: you got any gum?
> Me: you got any gum for you and I?
> Me: take a bigger bite of the piece of gum and hand it him/her the rest.
> 
> Saves cost of gum by 50% ever since!


What?!? You take the bigger half of the gum!!

That's stealing! Why not just rob them at gun point! What's next? Kidnapping?!?! You are totally going to hell!


----------



## SEAL Team 5

maxista said:


> First, a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> 
> 1. Quit.
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> 2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> 3. Cancellations.
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> 4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> 5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better. Here's a screenshot of my totals in 9 months.
> View attachment 27531
> 
> I have removed my codes for obvious reasons.
> 
> Some other thoughts:
> - A brief comment on the strikes.
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> - On the ratings.
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> - On More Radical Techniques.
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


With 3300 fares and 300 cancellations is 9 months is incredible. Based on a 5 day work week, you're averaging 20 calls per day. In July and Aug that's tremendous. We've been in business in Phx for over 14 years and if you have that kind of activity in the dead of summer you must be doing something extraordinary. Please share what you do to avg this. Cause I know that this town almost shuts down completely during the summer.


----------



## maxista

SEAL Team 5 said:


> With 3300 fares and 300 cancellations is 9 months is incredible. Based on a 5 day work week, you're averaging 20 calls per day. In July and Aug that's tremendous. We've been in business in Phx for over 14 years and if you have that kind of activity in the dead of summer you must be doing something extraordinary. Please share what you do to avg this. Cause I know that this town almost shuts down completely during the summer.


Close, I can show you my spreadsheet if you're really interested. I have averaged about 15-18 calls a day every week since May 2015. During the summer, I was working 45-65 hour weeks, which is more than 5 days though, so that explains the discrepancy in your math. Some weeks I'd work every day, since it really didn't feel like work to me. I would also drive throughout the night and through the morning rush, which was key. I would look for dead zones and move to them. Between the hours of 3-5 am there are lots of empty zones with no drivers, and people start going to airports and to work during that time. I live in central phoenix, so since I am centrally located, I am free to go anywhere. I've definitely stopped working so much since the end of September since as you know, it's so much busier. Now I do about 35-45 hours a week with some exceptions; New Years week, for example, I did 55 hours and netted about 1500.

Also, I am fast and efficient. I take risks and get the occasional cop that kindly pulls me over.  I've been pulled over 6 times doing this, only once did I get a ticket though. I know how to get somewhere super fast. I will drive through alleys and parking lots to avoid lights and take shortcuts. I know downtown Tempe, Phoenix and Scottsdale well enough to get in and out during the busy hours very fast. In the middle of the night, no sense in waiting for a red light when no one's around. It's all about moving quickly and being in the right place at the right time. In the 9 months I've been doing this, I've gone longer than 30 minutes without a ride maybe 3 or 4 times.


----------



## maxista

Aimless said:


> What?!? You take the bigger half of the gum!!
> 
> That's stealing! Why not just rob them at gun point! What's next? Kidnapping?!?! You are totally going to hell!


LOOOOL!


----------



## SEAL Team 5

maxista said:


> Close, I can show you my spreadsheet if you're really interested. I have averaged about 15-18 calls a day every week since May 2015. During the summer, I was working 45-65 hour weeks, which is more than 5 days though, so that explains the discrepancy in your math. Some weeks I'd work every day, since it really didn't feel like work to me. I would also drive throughout the night and through the morning rush, which was key. I would look for dead zones and move to them. Between the hours of 3-5 am there are lots of empty zones with no drivers, and people start going to airports and to work during that time. I live in central phoenix, so since I am centrally located, I am free to go anywhere. I've definitely stopped working so much since the end of September since as you know, it's so much busier. Now I do about 35-45 hours a week with some exceptions; New Years week, for example, I did 55 hours and netted about 1500.
> 
> Also, I am fast and efficient. I take risks and get the occasional cop that kindly pulls me over.  I've been pulled over 6 times doing this, only once did I get a ticket though. I know how to get somewhere super fast. I will drive through alleys and parking lots to avoid lights and take shortcuts. I know downtown Tempe, Phoenix and Scottsdale well enough to get in and out during the busy hours very fast. In the middle of the night, no sense in waiting for a red light when no one's around. It's all about moving quickly and being in the right place at the right time. In the 9 months I've been doing this, I've gone longer than 30 minutes without a ride maybe 3 or 4 times.


You are absolutely right about the early morning thing. I have a couple Uber Black drivers. I won't say, but I sort of know where you hang out in the early morning hours to get those good airport runs. Great job on being pro-active. You have put in your time and to be truthful, you should be at the $40-45 per hour rate. You know your town, you know your streets. Just be careful about giving too much of your knowledge away. You worked hard at figuring this driving out, especially with crappy rates. Good luck in the future!!


----------



## BiggestScamInHistory

Only thing that would hurt other drivers is 1 starring non-tippers. Majority of Uber riders don't tip, but aren't problematic hassles to deal with. Low ratings like that cause a driver to turn down an otherwise alright rider. 

Most Lyft riders don't tip as well now, or tip the bare minimum. Uber's karma for setting that trend in the industry will be never ending, so 1 guy working the system, not a big deal.


----------



## Uber_Dre

Maxista you are a genius!! Also, don't think I'll be accepting any more uber pools during a surge anymore. Drivers are getting screwed by the extra low fares and they don't calculate the rates properly during surges


----------



## driveLA

This is all actually great advice. A couple of points are a bit too far but for the most part I agree with everything.

Uber is a fraudulent company. They change things to inconvenience the driver and make the driver get the short end of the stick all the time.

Pax are paying pennies for these rides. And most of them are entitled trash honestly. It's not really an inconvenience to get cancelled on. Ya it's sooo horrible to have them wait another 5 minutes for the next Uber. 

Let Uber do some work taking complaints and issuing refunds.

Your only priority with these rates should be to make as much money as you can.


----------



## driveLA

This is seriously one of the best posts I've seen in a while. 

Some of the stuff I have already implemented before I read this. 

This is how you work the system. Every time Uber changes something you have to find out what you can get away with. 

By the way most of this stuff is not even against the rules if done correctly, most drivers are just scared to do these things.


----------



## Hkdman

ivanp said:


> I can't believe how many people here are defending Uber against the OP. Y'all need to wake up and take a look around. Do you think there are *any* executives at Uber who are standing up for the best interest of the driver? In case there's any doubt at this point, the answer is NO. So why are you standing up for Uber?
> 
> Uber's core business value is class warfare. In Uber's eyes, it's the Uber against the drivers, plain and simple. Their long-term goal is to eliminate the driver and their short term goal is to exploit the drivers as much as possible. Consumers can get caught up in the cross-fire, but if Uber didn't throw the first 50 punches, we wouldn't be in this struggle.
> 
> What we need now is unity amongst the drivers. Any non-violent, legal, tactics that help drivers, should be whole-heartedly embraced by the community. And the OP has done a great service by making this post.


It is not that we are defending uber. The rates are a joke. But I do stop short of doing anything that is borderline unethical. I am not going to accept the ride with the intention of cancelling. Now am I going to act like I arrived when I am 3 minutes away so that the pax only has 2 min to get to me before I cancel. I have no prob wig drivers playing the surge game - that is fare in my opinion. As for me, I have been driving for about 8 months, but have not driven for the last month. To me, that is far more effective a way to protest. I am supportive of the strikes - but don't believe they will work because with this business model it is to hard to organize everyone. By making uber scramble for drivers because we choose not to drive - that could be effective. In my humble opinion, I don't care if uber wants to keep rates as low as they do - but then they should give us a cut of the safe rider fee and reduce their commission. I think that would be a fare compromise. Don't see them doing it and until they do I don't expect to go out on the roads. At 90 cents per mile - I just can't justify it.


----------



## driveLA

Hkdman said:


> It is not that we are defending uber. The rates are a joke. But I do stop short of doing anything that is borderline unethical. I am not going to accept the ride with the intention of cancelling. Now am I going to act like I arrived when I am 3 minutes away so that the pax only has 2 min to get to me before I cancel. I have no prob wig drivers playing the surge game - that is fare in my opinion. As for me, I have been driving for about 8 months, but have not driven for the last month. To me, that is far more effective a way to protest. I am supportive of the strikes - but don't believe they will work because with this business model it is to hard to organize everyone. By making uber scramble for drivers because we choose not to drive - that could be effective. In my humble opinion, I don't care if uber wants to keep rates as low as they do - but then they should give us a cut of the safe rider fee and reduce their commission. I think that would be a fare compromise. Don't see them doing it and until they do I don't expect to go out on the roads. At 90 cents per mile - I just can't justify it.


its more unethical for the pax to not already be there waiting for you when you arrive.

they are supposed to be ready when they make the request.


----------



## maxista

driveLA said:


> This is seriously one of the best posts I've seen in a while.
> 
> Some of the stuff I have already implemented before I read this.
> 
> This is how you work the system. Every time Uber changes something you have to find out what you can get away with.
> 
> By the way most of this stuff is not even against the rules if done correctly, most drivers are just scared to do these things.


Exactly! Most of the times I'm not breaking the rules!


----------



## maxista

BiggestScamInHistory said:


> Only thing that would hurt other drivers is 1 starring non-tippers. Majority of Uber riders don't tip, but aren't problematic hassles to deal with. Low ratings like that cause a driver to turn down an otherwise alright rider.
> 
> Most Lyft riders don't tip as well now, or tip the bare minimum. Uber's karma for setting that trend in the industry will be never ending, so 1 guy working the system, not a big deal.


I don't think that that's true about the rating, I pick up everyone no matter what their rating is.

I do agree with you on the trend Uber has set though. After 3300 rides, 10% of my Ubers tip, 40% on Lyft. Those are my averages over that many rides.

Finally, I posted this post mostly to inspire other driver's to do the same. I'm already certainly not the only one doing this, I am just encouraging others to do it as well.


----------



## maxista

SEAL Team 5 said:


> You are absolutely right about the early morning thing. I have a couple Uber Black drivers. I won't say, but I sort of know where you hang out in the early morning hours to get those good airport runs. Great job on being pro-active. You have put in your time and to be truthful, you should be at the $40-45 per hour rate. You know your town, you know your streets. Just be careful about giving too much of your knowledge away. You worked hard at figuring this driving out, especially with crappy rates. Good luck in the future!!


Thanks for the support.


----------



## maxista

Uber_Dre said:


> Maxista you are a genius!! Also, don't think I'll be accepting any more uber pools during a surge anymore. Drivers are getting screwed by the extra low fares and they don't calculate the rates properly during surges


We don't have Uber pool in Phoenix. I'm sure it's a terrible deal for drivers as well.


----------



## glados

This post is almost a guide on how to not only get deactivated, but also how to commit fraud. Sure, it's only $4 or so per fake cancellation, but keep doing it and it'll add up and you might see a lawsuit coming your way.

Here's a checklist for fraud:

Misrepresentation of a material fact ✓ You are claiming that you've arrived at the pickup point before you arrive. You are also claiming to drive to a pickup point while in fact servicing another excludable request.

Knowledge on the part of the accused that they were misrepresenting the fact ✓ You are aware of what you are doing.
The misrepresentation was made purposefully, with the intent of fooling the victim ✓ As your topic has detailed, you are intentionally engaging in this misrepresentation for material gain.

The victim believed the misrepresentation and relied upon it ✓ Riders will expect to see you drive to the pick up point when you arrive, and cancel if you have in fact cancelled the request

The victim suffered damages as a result of the misrepresentation ✓ Riders may be charged a cancellation fee
FYI, Uber employees do browse this forum.


----------



## maxista

glados said:


> This post is almost a guide on how to not only get deactivated, but also how to commit fraud. Sure, it's only $4 or so per fake cancellation, but keep doing it and it'll add up and you might see a lawsuit coming your way.
> 
> Here's a checklist for fraud:
> 
> Misrepresentation of a material fact ✓ You are claiming that you've arrived at the pickup point before you arrive. You are also claiming to drive to a pickup point while in fact servicing another excludable request.
> 
> Knowledge on the part of the accused that they were misrepresenting the fact ✓ You are aware of what you are doing.
> The misrepresentation was made purposefully, with the intent of fooling the victim ✓ As your topic has detailed, you are intentionally engaging in this misrepresentation for material gain.
> 
> The victim believed the misrepresentation and relied upon it ✓ Riders will expect to see you drive to the pick up point when you arrive, and cancel if you have in fact cancelled the request
> 
> The victim suffered damages as a result of the misrepresentation ✓ Riders may be charged a cancellation fee
> FYI, Uber employees do browse this forum.


1. The Uber App itself notifies the rider before I have physically arrived, that I have arrived. I am merely accelerating that process. What this does is it gives the rider more time to be outside and ready. If I am "misrepresenting a material fact" so is Uber.

2. Uber is aware since they are the ones that designed the app.

3. In most cases, this does not happen, however in some yes.

4. Few riders are that aware and in tune with the app. Most people rely on us to call and text them, which is not something we're required to do.

5. Riders "may" be charged a cancellation fee, which, again, they may also get back from Uber.

Your case for me being a "fraud" seems pretty weak to me. FYI. Why do you think I post under a pseudonym and have no personally identifiable information on this forum? As I told someone else earlier, I didn't even register on this site with the same email address. So... what now? If someone is guilty of fraud, it's not me, it's Uber. Most drivers here could fill out your little fill in the blanks with behavior from Uber. You're not convincing anyone.


----------



## glados

maxista said:


> Your case for me being a "fraud" seems pretty weak to me. FYI. Why do you think I post under a pseudonym and have no personally identifiable information on this forum? As I told someone else earlier, I didn't even register on this site with the same email address. So... what now? If someone is guilt is fraud, it's not me, it's Uber. Most drivers here could fill out your little fill in the blanks with behavior from Uber. You're not convincing anyone.


Keep going with your delusions if it makes you happy. You can't say you haven't been warned.


----------



## maxista

glados said:


> Keep going with your delusions if it makes you happy. You can't say you haven't been warned.


You're the one who's delusional, you're clearly not looking at the bigger picture. These tactics are mostly within the boundaries of what's already within the rules, we're just stretching them to get an advantage. If you want to look for a rule breaker, look at Uber. You're a classic case of someone who refuses to understand the larger forces at play here.

Furthermore, you think you're the first one to scream bloody murder at me and threaten me? I've been threatened by dozens of entitled people like you, and guess what, even IF I get "busted" I will have no regrets. I like my life to the fullest, I give what I believe in everything I've got, and I believe that it's UBER that are stealing, lying, and robbing people.

It's been said that killing one person, is murder, and that killing 1 million, is foreign policy. Similarly, stealing from 1 person, is called "theft" and stealing from the masses, is called "good business".

Wake up. I'm not the bad guy.


----------



## gekko1323

Greguzzi said:


> Bernie would be proud of you, maxista!


Who is Bernie?


----------



## driveLA

glados said:


> This post is almost a guide on how to not only get deactivated, but also how to commit fraud. Sure, it's only $4 or so per fake cancellation, but keep doing it and it'll add up and you might see a lawsuit coming your way.
> 
> Here's a checklist for fraud:
> 
> Misrepresentation of a material fact ✓ You are claiming that you've arrived at the pickup point before you arrive. You are also claiming to drive to a pickup point while in fact servicing another excludable request.
> 
> Knowledge on the part of the accused that they were misrepresenting the fact ✓ You are aware of what you are doing.
> The misrepresentation was made purposefully, with the intent of fooling the victim ✓ As your topic has detailed, you are intentionally engaging in this misrepresentation for material gain.
> 
> The victim believed the misrepresentation and relied upon it ✓ Riders will expect to see you drive to the pick up point when you arrive, and cancel if you have in fact cancelled the request
> 
> The victim suffered damages as a result of the misrepresentation ✓ Riders may be charged a cancellation fee
> FYI, Uber employees do browse this forum.


How is it fraud

You can't get the 4 dollar if you aren't the pick up at some point

You as an "independent contractor" should be able to use your own discretion as far as how long you want to wait for a pax.

What about pax who cancel on you a minute or 2 before you can get the cancelation fee. Is that fraud too?


----------



## tohellwithu

Do what ever you feel like coz uber does the same with driver, so tit for tat


----------



## maxista

Wow. I'd love to take an IQ test at the same time as you and compare scores. Why is it that I'm dumb exactly?

Uber has no clue who I am, and quite frankly, 95% of the time, I'm playing within the boundaries of what's allowed. I know what I'm doing.

My totals as of tonight:
Grand totals:
3305 rides
350 PAID Cancellations


----------



## ChattaBilly

maxista said:


> If you want to define what I'm doing as stealing, then so be it, but I don't see it that way. Uber PAX can get their money back from Uber with a simple email, in which case the only one taking a hit is Uber.
> 
> **
> Also, I'm adding an edit to this post for the sake of saving us some time and posts. I really want to stress the point that more often than not, the cancellation is legitimate. The person is not ready to go and in my car within 5 minutes. Therefore, Uber may very well say to the rider: "you've already had your one time courtesy reversal, we show that the driver was at the pin drop location making an honest attempt at finding you, therefore, you will NOT be receiving a refund".
> 
> The bottom line is this: if you're not ready, it's YOUR fault. Part of the reason the fares are so low, is because the system allows for MAXIMUM efficiency. Being ready and able to find someone by GPS is much more efficient than a centralized cab service. That's the whole point! If you're not ready, you're wasting everyone's time. You should be on the curb, looking at your phone, ready to go. When I ride on these services, I am always ready to go immediately. I never waste the drivers time and make it as efficient as possible.
> 
> _*It is the riders responsibility to correctly place the pin and be ready to locate the driver, not the other way around. *_
> 
> So to all of you who complain about the measly 5 dollars, of which we only get 4, you're wrong. You're flat out inconsiderate and you're wrong. Zero sympathy here.


You $4.00? I get $3.00 here in Chattanooga.


----------



## UberRey

Personally, I love it. It takes much of what I was already doing and adds to it. Cheers! Wish we still got cancellation fees here. Lots of self righteous pigs here want to complain but they never do ANYTHING to fight back. Good intentions don't win wars. Fighting wins wars. +1 to the OP.


----------



## vesolehome

Good news is, Uber will cut you off soon and you can find a real job. 

There are so many flaws in your system, but more miles to ya/


----------



## Uber Kraus

driveLA said:


> What about pax who cancel on you a minute or 2 before you can get the cancelation fee. Is that fraud too?


No, that is not fraud.


----------



## FrankMartin

#4 (downrating for non-tipping) I take as a morally balanced practice and I am guilty of giving pax a pass on the non-tipping thing. I am not sure that 1* is the correct response, though. Do pax get deactivated for low-rating? Do you have to write an explanation of a 1* rating? Perhaps 3 or 4 stars is legit?


----------



## Jon Michael Plotter

Maxista, you are enjoying the experience that you have gained..I have as well. Most people here are sheeple. Let go..you are wasting time.

Keywords : Experience and Entitlement. 

Uber has sold that the Uber ride is great experience.. Entitle yourself to it.. 

Destroy one, take another with it. Uber is done, albeit slowly. Lawsuits will ultimately take it down, but the labor force with no power HAVE TO encourage the slow bleed.

Peace unto you, I holy one!


----------



## X-Cabbie

glados said:


> Here's a checklist for fraud:


Here's another one:

Misrepresentation of taxi services as "ridesharing" ✓ Ridesharing requires that all parties, including the driver, wish or intend to travel to pre-specified destinations that are either near each other or on a direct path to the most distant destination.

Knowledge on the part of the accused that they were misrepresenting the fact ✓ You are aware that your app does not allow drivers to specify their own destination, that the PAX's destination is optional until pickup, and that in fact most Uber drivers operate as illegal taxis dispatched by Uber through a mobile app.
The misrepresentation was made purposefully, with the intent of fooling the victim ✓ The purpose of the word "ridesharing" is to bypass government requirements for drivers and vehicles for hire.

The victim believed the misrepresentation and relied upon it ✓ Many drivers do not know they are breaking the law.

The victim suffered damages as a result of the misrepresentation ✓ Low rates force ignorant drivers to unknowingly operate at a loss and put law-abiding taxi companies out of business. 
FYI, Uber employees are accomplices to Uber's crimes.


----------



## scoobydoobydoo

Interesting analysis. I do agree on the 5 minute rule and use it consistently.


----------



## maxista

vesolehome said:


> Good news is, Uber will cut you off soon and you can find a real job.
> 
> There are so many flaws in your system, but more miles to ya/


I'm confident that I will not be deactivated.  Real job? What a snob. What flaws? Let's hear them.


----------



## maxista

UberRey said:


> Personally, I love it. It takes much of what I was already doing and adds to it. Cheers! Wish we still got cancellation fees here. Lots of self righteous pigs here want to complain but they never do ANYTHING to fight back. Good intentions don't win wars. Fighting wins wars. +1 to the OP.


You don't get cancellation fees?! What if some bloke doesn't show up? If that were the case I would always insta call the rider and make sure they are ready to go. If not, cancel, move on. How can this work without cancellation fees?


----------



## vesolehome

maxista said:


> I'm confident that I will not be deactivated.  Real job? What a snob. What flaws? Let's hear them.


Flaw #1 - the person who blogs on an Uber message board that is watched by Uber employees that he/she *I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations *doesn't think it won't take long for Uber to see how many account in Phoenix have these numbers and the pattern you outline

Flaw #2 *Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. *Assuming you're heading in the same direction your Lyft request is! If not, your Uber PAX is going to watch you drive away from them and think you're doing this intentional or you're a moron and someone will eventually report your actions to Uber.

Flaw #3 *I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel *Uber has records of all contacts via their app

Rating 1 star is a disservice to other Uber drivers. A non-tipper isn't a bad PAX. I'd rather drive a nice person with no tip than get stuck picking up A$$holes.

As for a real job, someone with your ethics probably can only drive for Uber and Lyft. Uber on!


----------



## maxista

vesolehome said:


> Flaw #1 - the person who blogs on an Uber message board that is watched by Uber employees that he/she *I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations *doesn't think it won't take long for Uber to see how many account in Phoenix have these numbers and the pattern you outline
> 
> Flaw #2 *Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. *Assuming you're heading in the same direction your Lyft request is! If not, your Uber PAX is going to watch you drive away from them and think you're doing this intentional or you're a moron and someone will eventually report your actions to Uber.
> 
> Flaw #3 *I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel *Uber has records of all contacts via their app
> 
> Rating 1 star is a disservice to other Uber drivers. A non-tipper isn't a bad PAX. I'd rather drive a nice person with no tip than get stuck picking up A$$holes.
> 
> As for a real job, someone with your ethics probably can only drive for Uber and Lyft. Uber on!


Flaws in your flaws:
1. That total is Lyft and Uber combined. Uber has no way of knowing what ratio or totals of Ubers and Lyfts I've done, nor cancellations. I've not disclosed that. So, your first "flaw" is bogus.

2. A few people DO report those actions to Uber. You don't think I know that? I've had a couple people say to me outright, that they will report me. Sometimes I answer their angry calls and explain to them that they should have been ready, and that's when they make those claims. Here's the thing: these occurrences are less than 5% of the time, so after so many rides, it gets brushed off as an "anomaly". The Uber people who field the complaints from the PAX are often in India, and we all know, that they work off of template based responses. They have no power or ability to do anything. You're giving Uber way too much credit lol. You really think they have time to pay someone to fine comb through thousands and thousands of rides? You realize that you have to pay people to do that right? What you don't get, is that 90% of my rides result in 5 stars. I've done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, more than most Uber drivers will do in a lifetime. This all flies under the radar.

3. Uber doesn't hoover around me in some invisible cloud. There could be a dozen reasons why I don't answer a call or a text. The PAX do the same thing, they often don't respond... again, weak.

People who tip are never assholes! 1 starring non tippers is the only systematic way to attack their awful rating system. If everyone adopted what I do, the rating system would no longer make sense and Uber would be forced to change it.

You have no idea who I am and what jobs I've done. You're acting like you know, but you have no idea. Your flaws are weak, your arguments are weak, and it's you, who has poor ethics. You are unable to see the much larger forces at play, and are acting like I'm the bad guy and the enemy, when the truth is anything but. You're a willing slave brother. Wake up. I'm not the evil one.


----------



## Sludge

*Go to any prison. Most "residents" have all types of rationalization for being nothing more or less than a criminal.*


----------



## maxista

Sludge said:


> *Go to any prison. Most "residents" have all types of rationalization for being nothing more or less than a criminal.*


Educate yourself.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/uber...duct-audacity-nader-seifen?forceNoSplash=true
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/philadelphia-journalist-went-undercover-uber-183523711.html
http://www.alternet.org/comments/ec...yn-rand-and-truth-about-tech-and-libertarians
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Uber-RVW4883474.htm


----------



## Uberboob

This is one of the most interesting and educational threads I've read on this site. Most multi page threads here seem to quickly decend into "you suck, no I don't, you suck more!" fights. I tend to lean toward maxista on most of the points made. For me a few are a little too over the edge though.


----------



## Guest

When you put this much effort into trying to fk over customers and the company...really, its time to quit and move on.


----------



## maxista

mjuber said:


> When you put this much effort into trying to fk over customers and the company...really, its time to quit and move on.


That's not at all what's happening. I'm educating the public and having a good time, while making pretty decent money. Tax free mostly. If you looked at my income over the last year and compared it with yours, I'd be willing to be bet you'd wish you were me.


----------



## vesolehome

maxista said:


> Flaws in your flaws:
> 1. That total is Lyft and Uber combined. Uber has no way of knowing what ratio or totals of Ubers and Lyfts I've done, nor cancellations. I've not disclosed that. So, your first "flaw" is bogus.
> 
> 2. A few people DO report those actions to Uber. You don't think I know that? I've had a couple people say to me outright, that they will report me. Sometimes I answer their angry calls and explain to them that they should have been ready, and that's when they make those claims. Here's the thing: these occurrences are less than 5% of the time, so after so many rides, it gets brushed off as an "anomaly". The Uber people who field the complaints from the PAX are often in India, and we all know, that they work off of template based responses. They have no power or ability to do anything. You're giving Uber way too much credit lol. You really think they have time to pay someone to fine comb through thousands and thousands of rides? You realize that you have to pay people to do that right? What you don't get, is that 90% of my rides result in 5 stars. I've done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, more than most Uber drivers will do in a lifetime. This all flies under the radar.
> 
> 3. Uber doesn't hoover around me in some invisible cloud. There could be a dozen reasons why I don't answer a call or a text. The PAX do the same thing, they often don't respond... again, weak.
> 
> People who tip are never assholes! 1 starring non tippers is the only systematic way to attack their awful rating system. If everyone adopted what I do, the rating system would no longer make sense and Uber would be forced to change it.
> 
> You have no idea who I am and what jobs I've done. You're acting like you know, but you have no idea. Your flaws are weak, your arguments are weak, and it's you, who has poor ethics. You are unable to see the much larger forces at play, and are acting like I'm the bad guy and the enemy, when the truth is anything but. You're a willing slave brother. Wake up. I'm not the evil one.


Naw, you're not a bad guy. Just an A$$hole


----------



## maxista

vesolehome said:


> Naw, you're not a bad guy. Just an A$$hole


How am I an asshole? You're the guy with Scarface as an idol...


----------



## Uberboob

vesolehome said:


> Naw, you're not a bad guy. Just an A$$hole


You win! As the first to use a*****e you get to take your ball and go home.


----------



## Guest

As smart as you think you are..I promise you there is an algorithm designed to track your actions..good luck, it wont last!


----------



## maxista

mjuber said:


> As smart as you think you are..I promise you there is an algorithm designed to track your actions..good luck, it wont last!


Look, I'm doing the best I can for me, while staying true to myself and my values. I am spending my time here, working to inspire and organize other drivers, to contribute to a grassroots revolt against the Uber establishment.

People like you, who criticize, and side with Uber, have an oedipus complex. So let me spell it out for you very simply:

_We are all pretty much in the same boat! You are succumbing to divide and conquer tactics. The real enemy is Uber, i.e., the very, very small percentage of people who pull the strings. The derision and scorn directed at me is not only undeserved, it is badly misplaced. You are being duped. I am not the bad guy._​
I'm willing to take that bet by the way, that 3 months from now, when I take a break for the summer, and slow down until September, I will still be active and doing my thing.


----------



## ubergordo

maxista said:


> That's not a common occurrence and happens less than 5% of the time.


There's no such thing as "5% pregnant" either you are a crooked person or you are not...


----------



## maxista

ubergordo said:


> There's no such thing as "5% pregnant" either you are a crooked person or you are not...


Again, it's part of a larger strategy designed to undermine Uber. Uber clearly doesn't respect us, they lie, steal, intimidate, break laws, and they take advantage of drivers. All people who have any serious experience as a driver will echo this view, so ask yourself, why are you attacking the ones being most wronged?


----------



## X-Cabbie

ubergordo said:


> There's no such thing as "5% pregnant"


There's no such thing as "5% ******ed".


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

X-Cabbie said:


> Here's another one:
> 
> Misrepresentation of taxi services as "ridesharing" ✓ Ridesharing requires that all parties, including the driver, wish or intend to travel to pre-specified destinations that are either near each other or on a direct path to the most distant destination.
> 
> Knowledge on the part of the accused that they were misrepresenting the fact ✓ You are aware that your app does not allow drivers to specify their own destination, that the PAX's destination is optional until pickup, and that in fact most Uber drivers operate as illegal taxis dispatched by Uber through a mobile app.
> The misrepresentation was made purposefully, with the intent of fooling the victim ✓ The purpose of the word "ridesharing" is to bypass government requirements for drivers and vehicles for hire.
> 
> The victim believed the misrepresentation and relied upon it ✓ Many drivers do not know they are breaking the law.
> 
> The victim suffered damages as a result of the misrepresentation ✓ Low rates force ignorant drivers to unknowingly operate at a loss and put law-abiding taxi companies out of business.
> FYI, Uber employees are accomplices to Uber's crimes.


The City of Houston actually pointed this out in their ordinance (this is directly copied from the ordinance):

"Ridesharing, when describing conduct, means the travelling of two or more persons by any mode of private passenger vehicle, including, but not limited to, carpooling, vanpooling, buspooling, to any location incidental to another purpose of the driver, for which compensation is not accepted, collected, encouraged, promoted, or requested."

It also, in its Vehicles for Hire User's Guide, says that vehicles for hire are NOT ridesharing:
"Traditional car-pooling or ride-sharing arrangements in which friends, neighbors or co-workers share driving duties and the cost of gasoline are not considered vehicles-for-hire by the City."

In the above, THIS is the pertinent part: "TO ANY LOCATION INCIDENTAL TO ANOTHER PURPOSE OF THE DRIVER". Even if the lousy pay only covers gas, as in a traditional rideshare, the driver is not going to a location "incidental to another purpose" except in the rare cases where he happens to get a ride going somewhere he wants to. We know how often THAT happens.


----------



## driveLA

I really can't believe the negativity towards the OP. 

So many of you are clueless and the reason fares are so low. 

All of this would be a no no if all you were doing is driving without the expenses. 

You are not employees. What don't you understand about that. 

Uber likes to hold these invisible strings over you and you all think you're going to get deactivated if you don't follow ubers vague policies to a T. 

Don't ever start your own businesses.


----------



## Greguzzi

". . . crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you, and may your chains rest lightly on you . . ."


----------



## maxista

Greguzzi said:


> ". . . crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you, and may your chains rest lightly on you . . ."


What we're witnessing in this thread is a sample of the American public who chooses to exist in what Stanley Milgram calls the _Agentic State,_ which is that:

_"the essence of obedience consists in the fact that a person comes to view themselves as the instrument for carrying out another person's wishes, and they therefore no longer see themselves as responsible for their actions."_​
The other person being obeyed, in this case, is "Uber", and these people are merely obeying the authority of a corporation who, because of it's size and influence, is perceived as a justified source of authority.

In a way this thread is an interesting experiment into human nature. Most people, who have no experience driving for a living, or very little, choose instead to attack those who rebel against authority, without even wanting to understand why. The act of rebellion alone, regardless of its motivations, is to them, worthy of intense condemnation and scorn. This is why companies like Walmart, Uber, and many others, who exploit and abuse so many people around the world, are not only tolerated, but embraced. Most people do not see the bigger picture, because their role is restricted to such a small portion of the process, and they are able to remove themselves from the responsibility they bear by virtue of choosing to be in this state, the Agentic State.

It doesn't matter who the authority is, Uber, Walmart, the US military, most people, unfortunately, will defend authority, attack the rebels, and absolve themselves of any responsibility for doing so. In essence, I'm not surprised by some of the responses I've received.

If you're curious about what I'm talking about, watch the film "the experimenter", currently on Netflix.


----------



## steel108

To all the idiots giving the OP a hard time, please post your pay statements. I am willing to bet that you are losing money driving for Uber. You are Ubers wet dream. A mindless drone that will pay Uber to drive people LOL

It's laughable that such dumb people exist but the proof is evident for every driver that picks up a fare that isn't surging. You guys keep picking up fares at the base rate and I'll keep driving the fares that are 3x surge.


----------



## RockinEZ

maxista said:


> First, a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> 
> 1. Quit.
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> 2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> 3. Cancellations.
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> 4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> 5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better. Here's a screenshot of my totals in 9 months.
> View attachment 27531
> 
> I have removed my codes for obvious reasons.
> 
> Some other thoughts:
> - A brief comment on the strikes.
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> - On the ratings.
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> - On More Radical Techniques.
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


Never read a more long winded post from a completely clueless thief before.
Uber will have no problem prosecuting you for using the app for theft.
Get used to the idea you could earn a new orange jumpsuit, and a brand new boy friend if you keep that kind of thinking up.


----------



## wethepeople

scrurbscrud said:


> Drivers can slide for awhile on cancel rates, but if they are consistently under 80% they'll get scratched from the system eventually. 3 weeks or more with 80% or less accept/complete fares will usually start the deactivation ball rolling.
> 
> Also hitting arrived before arriving is an easy mark for Uber to pick up on the GPS system, so I wouldn't advise that either. Might be a weak spot if Uber isn't flagging it, but once attention is drawn to the driver they can look. Pretty sure they employ tracking stats that drivers are not privy to. Like how much time a driver may sit after getting a ping. How the travel goes according to the estimated time and real time, etc etc. Probably LOTTSA stats of this nature.
> 
> If a driver wants to drive, then drive. If not, don't. If a driver does drive they should take a little pride and consideration in their work regardless.


Even tho I don't completely agree with that guy, I run a similar tactic.
It's called the "hey dude don't waste my time tactic.

I won't even wait 1-2 minutes sometimes yes sometimes no.
If you request a ride and feel that it's your god given right to make the driver wait for 5mins then not even tip,
then you (pax!) deserves to wait at the curb yelling and cursing while you now have to wait for the next clueless driver to be enroute and eventually have a longer wait time.

respect my time please and be curbside or really within the next 1-2mins or go to hell.

What I didn't like at the initial post that it really is looking pretty much like "stealing"
or pushing rides to Lyft.. I don't like either one of both evil companies.

They both use resources that they don't own (us and our vehicles)
Have you ever thought about how much the price per mile would be if Uber and Lyft had to buy cars and hire drivers
at least at minimum wages?? I say they would cost more than a taxifare.

I usually make 16 20 bucks per shift out of cancelled trips which I find is a lot but well deserved from pax that don't give a shit about my precious time.


----------



## maxista

RockinEZ said:


> Never read a more long winded post from a completely clueless thief before.
> Uber will have no problem prosecuting you for using the app for theft.
> Get used to the idea you could earn a new orange jumpsuit, and a brand new boy friend if you keep that kind of thinking up.


I've yet to say this to someone on this thread. You're an idiot.


----------



## maxista

wethepeople said:


> Even tho I don't completely agree with that guy, I run a similar tactic.
> It's called the "hey dude don't waste my time tactic.
> 
> I won't even wait 1-2 minutes sometimes yes sometimes no.
> If you request a ride and feel that it's your god given right to make the driver wait for 5mins then not even tip,
> then you (pax!) deserves to wait at the curb yelling and cursing while you now have to wait for the next clueless driver to be enroute and eventually have a longer wait time.
> 
> respect my time please and be curbside or really within the next 1-2mins or go to hell.
> 
> What I didn't like at the initial post that it really is looking pretty much like "stealing"
> or pushing rides to Lyft.. I don't like either one of both evil companies.
> 
> They both use resources that they don't own (us and our vehicles)
> Have you ever thought about how much the price per mile would be if Uber and Lyft had to buy cars and hire drivers
> at least at minimum wages?? I say they would cost more than a taxifare.
> 
> I usually make 16 20 bucks per shift out of cancelled trips which I find is a lot but well deserved from pax that don't give a shit about my precious time.


There's no way on earth, that what I'm doing is "stealing". If that's what you're getting from this post, you're really not very aware.


----------



## wethepeople

I read it in full and I was very aware at the part where you explain that you have no real intent to pickup the Uber request if you receive a Lyft ping while enroute.

My Logic: "how would you even know in this case if pax is maybe even waiting outside as they should?
So yes that's unfair to good people and stealing.

What I do is similar but still so much different. It's called "punishing but not stealing"
I will drive off if no one is outside or within 1-2 minutes the max..
I also dont cancel before 5mins because I want my $4 for driving to the pin, but I would be able to confirm visually that no soul was waiting outside.

I give you an example : sketchy neighbourhood or bar area and name of pax is female.

DO YOU really want your little sister to wait outside in the dark and maybe becoming a target?
Dude be a gentleman and separate those who are inside for safety but still ready to go.
also sometimes there is a lag between our exact arrival and what they see on their phones.
I had to experience it myself on superbowl sunday (was on strike)
The driver was already in front of my house while I was walking outside because I saw on my app that he was a block away.
That's why I give them those 1 maybe 2 minutes..

Also tell me why you think that Lyft was any better than Uber?
It's the same pax using it, so how could it be better or worse?


----------



## maxista

RockinEZ said:


> Never read a more long winded post from a completely clueless thief before.
> Uber will have no problem prosecuting you for using the app for theft.
> Get used to the idea you could earn a new orange jumpsuit, and a brand new boy friend if you keep that kind of thinking up.


Based on what I've seen from your posts, I'm not convinced you read even 20%. You seem to be much more interested in dishing out insults and obnoxious aggressive comments.


----------



## maxista

wethepeople said:


> I read it in full and I was very aware at the part where you explain that you have no real intent to pickup the Uber request if you receive a Lyft ping while enroute.
> 
> My Logic: "how would you even know in this case if pax is maybe even waiting outside as they should?
> So yes that's unfair to good people and stealing.
> 
> What I do is similar but still so much different. It's called "punishing but not stealing"
> I will drive off if no one is outside or within 1-2 minutes the max..
> I also dont cancel before 5mins because I want my $4 for driving to the pin, but I would be able to confirm visually that no soul was waiting outside.
> 
> I give you an example : sketchy neighbourhood or bar area and name of pax is female.
> 
> DO YOU really want your little sister to wait outside in the dark and maybe becoming a target?
> Dude be a gentleman and separate those who are inside for safety but still ready to go.
> also sometimes there is a lag between our exact arrival and what they see on their phones.
> I had to experience it myself on superbowl sunday (was on strike)
> The driver was already in front of my house while I was walking outside because I saw on my app that he was a block away.
> That's why I give them those 1 maybe 2 minutes..
> 
> Also tell me why you think that Lyft was any better than Uber?
> It's the same pax using it, so how could it be better or worse?


I'll address all your points one by one.

1. As I explained, I do the same thing you do. The scenario where I let the Uber cancel is only in the event that I get a simultaneous Lyft ping, unless of course it's a high surge, in which case I'm going for the Uber and making every effort to get them in the car asap. Good people or not, what I'm doing is part of a deliberate strategy to undermine Uber. You're missing this point entirely. Worst case scenario, and pretty rare, they get charged and then contact Uber to get their measly $5 back. I explained that part. I don't see this as stealing at all. If that's stealing, most people are thieves in one way or another. The way I see it, Uber's rates are theft. Consumers need to take responsibility for using services that exploit those who service them.

2. I emphatically encourage everyone from my family and circle of friends NOT to use Uber, ever. I also tell at least half of my PAX on Uber about how horrible Uber is, and refer them to Lyft, which makes me $10 a pop. Look at my referrals on Lyft on the original post. 90% of them are from Uber riders. Which leads me into Lyft.

3. I make 50% more, per ride, on average, on Lyft. Why? Tips and rates. Rates are higher, PAX can tip, pretty straight forward. Also, Lyft doesn't give us nearly as much grief. While they are still a corporation that takes advantage of us, they at least make somewhat of an attempt to treat us like human beings. There is so much less Kool-Aid coming down the Lyft pipeline, that alone makes them better.


----------



## Cou-ber

maxista said:


> I'm going to assume that this is directed at me. Tell me, Mr. Digits, do you really think someone like me isn't aware of that? How do you suppose that these "spiders" are going to find out who I am? You think I'd be stupid enough to post personally identifiable information on this site? Even if they could obtain the email address I used to register on this forum, do you think I'm dumb enough to use the one I use for Uber?
> 
> You have no idea what you're saying. You think I'm poisoning their businesses? Please, they are poisonin their own businesses. You are clueless. They have no idea who I am, they have no way of finding out, and there are many other drivers doing what I do. I've told Lyft outright I'm referring Uber riders to their platform, they know, they like it. The way these guys do business is like war.
> 
> You need to realize once and for all that we are not employees. Let that sink in. We are not beholden to any of these contractors.


Well, you did post your passenger referral bonuses with identifying info. Wouldn't be a tremendous feat to run a search for which drivers in week X of May in blah blah blah...they got me and I covered my buns in the EXACT same ways you are. Cockiness kills.


----------



## Baby Cakes

i have been taking a stopwatch with me for months now. PAX have learned to find me before 5 minutes


maxista said:


> First, a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> 
> 1. Quit.
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> 2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> 3. Cancellations.
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> 4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> 5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better. Here's a screenshot of my totals in 9 months.
> View attachment 27531
> 
> I have removed my codes for obvious reasons.
> 
> Some other thoughts:
> - A brief comment on the strikes.
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> - On the ratings.
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> - On More Radical Techniques.
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


----------



## JJS

So by driving surge only, you make Uber richer and richer. We don't like being f*****.Why do it to the pax. Uber is laughing there way to the bank. Think this through gang. To me Uber is doing it on purpose to cause us to only drive the surge which dwarfs cab rates. Go be a taxi driver.


----------



## Aimless

JJS said:


> So by driving surge only, you make Uber richer and richer. We don't like being f*****.Why do it to the pax. Uber is laughing there way to the bank. Think this through gang. To me Uber is doing it on purpose to cause us to only drive the surge which dwarfs cab rates. Go be a taxi driver.


Go be a taxi driver? Seriously? That's your solution? Ummmmm... no. The taxi industry is and has been broken and corrupt long before Uber came along. And if it did even a mediocre job of servicing the needs of most communities TNCs would not be seeing nearly as much popularity and growth as they are. Taxis will always have a niche, but like it or not TNCs are here to stay.

So, I have an idea. How about we try to affect change using the tools that are right in front of us. Like cancellations, the rating system and intelligently discussing rates/tips with our PAX.

You know, fight back against Uber's rate cuts, using Uber's own system. Hang on... I think that may have already been suggested somewhere...


----------



## RockinEZ

This is what the Newb posted on my personal messages. 
What a clueless silly person. 
Not only is this person dishonest, but may be a passive aggressive personality. 
The poster knows nothing about Uber, law, or potty training.


----------



## RockinEZ

maxista said:


> I'll address all your points one by one.
> 
> 1. As I explained, I do the same thing you do. The scenario where I let the Uber cancel is only in the event that I get a simultaneous Lyft ping, unless of course it's a high surge, in which case I'm going for the Uber and making every effort to get them in the car asap. Good people or not, what I'm doing is part of a deliberate strategy to undermine Uber. You're missing this point entirely. Worst case scenario, and pretty rare, they get charged and then contact Uber to get their measly $5 back. I explained that part. I don't see this as stealing at all. If that's stealing, most people are thieves in one way or another. The way I see it, Uber's rates are theft. Consumers need to take responsibility for using services that exploit those who service them.
> 
> 2. I emphatically encourage everyone from my family and circle of friends NOT to use Uber, ever. I also tell at least half of my PAX on Uber about how horrible Uber is, and refer them to Lyft, which makes me $10 a pop. Look at my referrals on Lyft on the original post. 90% of them are from Uber riders. Which leads me into Lyft.
> 
> 3. I make 50% more, per ride, on average, on Lyft. Why? Tips and rates. Rates are higher, PAX can tip, pretty straight forward. Also, Lyft doesn't give us nearly as much grief. While they are still a corporation that takes advantage of us, they at least make somewhat of an attempt to treat us like human beings. There is so much less Kool-Aid coming down the Lyft pipeline, that alone makes them better.


What a complete load. 
We have been doing this a lot longer than you and know every word you have posted is fiction. 
Take you dishonest kiester over to the "short bus" forum with the other losers kicked off this forum. They are more receptive to instant fantasy posted for self amusement.

How dare you send me a personal post calling me a troll? You don't even know what a Troll is. 
Your first rambling disconnected statement about stealing money from Uber pax was trolling to the max extent.

No more PMs to me please Newb. You are acting a fool in public.


----------



## RockinEZ

maxista said:


> Based on what I've seen from your posts, I'm not convinced you read even 20%. You seem to be much more interested in dishing out insults and obnoxious aggressive comments.


Look at your posts here clueless Newb. All negative. Your first post is about theft from pax and Uber. Sure that one will work.

You sure made a lot of friends in a hurry.

I expect the advice on great pick up spots to start filling your inbox at any moment.


----------



## RockinEZ

JJS said:


> So by driving surge only, you make Uber richer and richer. We don't like being f*****.Why do it to the pax. Uber is laughing there way to the bank. Think this through gang. To me Uber is doing it on purpose to cause us to only drive the surge which dwarfs cab rates. Go be a taxi driver.


You are kidding right?

Drive more and you will find the only money is in surges. Avoid 1X rides if at all possible. 
Surge is Uber's way of moving drivers where they are needed. It is part of the Uber system.

Uber has a piece on "how to use the surge". Read it if you want to make any money driving.


----------



## MiddleClassedOut

I applaud this post, and wish I would have thought of this strategy when I was doing both. 

We live in a highly competitive capitalist society. If you are not bending all the rules of ethics and morality to make money, you're doing it wrong. You're nothing but a tool for Uber/Lyft.

It is funny how much acrimony this guy is generating. Despite the fact that Americans like to think of themselves as "individualistic" and "innovators," this is the most passive, unquestioning country I've ever been in (and I've traveled a lot in my past lives.) You guys just sit and take whatever the corporations and government hand to you, and you're anti-government when government IS the representation of the people's will. It's still a functioning democracy here, even if it's very hard to make change happen because of people's passive, go-along, get-along attitudes toward authority and the structures that are in place.

Meanwhile in France, taxi drivers have shut down UberX and Uber's criminal executives have gone to trial. Who went to jail in the US of any significance over the collapse of the financial system due to willfull negligence, fraud, and all those bad loans in 2008? No one.


----------



## KingTravisHasNoClothes

maxista said:


> First, a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> 
> 1. Quit.
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> 2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> 3. Cancellations.
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> 4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> 5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better. Here's a screenshot of my totals in 9 months.
> View attachment 27531
> 
> I have removed my codes for obvious reasons.
> 
> Some other thoughts:
> - A brief comment on the strikes.
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> - On the ratings.
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> - On More Radical Techniques.
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


I must applaud you sir and your technique. "Bravo" !
As for those who view your style with less enthusiasm , I have no desire to kick their soapbox from beneath their lofty position.

I have completed well over 2200 trips so I do know that some these techniques do work.

I for one believe that just like me and many others who began this endeavor with uber with the intention of doing the right thing by providing the uber pax with a seemless, safe, clean ride in a timely manor. Uber refers to drivers as "Partners" and we all know this is not the case. Uber is the 21st century version of JP Morgan, Rockefeller and Getty of the Industrial Age who crushed any and all by whatever means possible.
Now let's cut to the chase, in the not so distant future the driverless vehicle will be here and you and I will not.
As for those of you who view this individual with disdain , I am fairly certain that if Travis Kalanick was just another hoe driving for the pimp uber he would be on board with these tactics. Uncle Travis has been pegging you and I from day one and it's my intention to play the pax against uncle Travis. Because the pax is the pawn which is the link to market share and market share is the link to Wall Street $$$$.


----------



## maxista

KingTravisHasNoClothes said:


> I am fairly certain that if Travis Kalanick was just another hoe driving for the pimp uber he would be on board with these tactics. Uncle Travis has been pegging you and I from day one and it's my intention to play the pax against uncle Travis. Because the pax is the pawn which is the link to market share and market share is the link to Wall Street $$$$.


Oh yes. Music to my ears. Thank you sir. I could not agree more. Travis, by definition, hates regulations and "rules" that prevent him from doing whatever he wants. So... by that reasoning, we're just returning the favor! Great response and show of solidarity. Two thumbs up.


----------



## maxista

MiddleClassedOut said:


> I applaud this post, and wish I would have thought of this strategy when I was doing both.
> 
> We live in a highly competitive capitalist society. If you are not bending all the rules of ethics and morality to make money, you're doing it wrong. You're nothing but a tool for Uber/Lyft.
> 
> It is funny how much acrimony this guy is generating. Despite the fact that Americans like to think of themselves as "individualistic" and "innovators," this is the most passive, unquestioning country I've ever been in (and I've traveled a lot in my past lives.) You guys just sit and take whatever the corporations and government hand to you, and you're anti-government when government IS the representation of the people's will. It's still a functioning democracy here, even if it's very hard to make change happen because of people's passive, go-along, get-along attitudes toward authority and the structures that are in place.
> 
> Meanwhile in France, taxi drivers have shut down UberX and Uber's criminal executives have gone to trial. Who went to jail in the US of any significance over the collapse of the financial system due to willfull negligence, fraud, and all those bad loans in 2008? No one.


Yes! Americans are sheep. So passive and prone to accept authority. It's pathetic. I too am not from here, I'm originally from Western Europe, but have grown up here. I went to school here from 5th grade onward. I have first hand experience watching my fellow American students become less intelligent, more obedient and pacified as the years of "fill in the blank" schooling progressed. The American people are a hot bed for Fascism, and they don't even know it. Look at who's leading the conservative polls in the election. Another great reply. I completely agree with you.


----------



## maxista

RockinEZ said:


> Look at your posts here clueless Newb. All negative. Your first post is about theft from pax and Uber. Sure that one will work.
> 
> You sure made a lot of friends in a hurry.
> 
> I expect the advice on great pick up spots to start filling your inbox at any moment.


If that's what you took from my "long winded" post, your reading comprehension is a big fail.


----------



## KingTravisHasNoClothes

RockinEZ said:


> Never read a more long winded post from a completely clueless thief before.
> Uber will have no problem prosecuting you for using the app for theft.
> Get used to the idea you could earn a new orange jumpsuit, and a brand new boy friend if you keep that kind of thinking up.


Yawn...... Orange jumpsuit ? , really. Well Barnaby Jones you have put the fear of the god "Uber" into me.
PS: it's obvious that that you have not realized that you have been Uncle Travis's b'itch for some time. Sorry just saying.


----------



## maxista

RockinEZ said:


> This is what the Newb posted on my personal messages.
> What a clueless silly person.
> Not only is this person dishonest, but may be a passive aggressive personality.
> The poster knows nothing about Uber, law, or potty training.
> 
> View attachment 27908


Brother, the fact that you take the time to post this, proves that you're a troll. You say I'm negative? I've read your posts elsewhere and here, all you do is deride and attack with what you think are clever little sound bites, masked in a veil of scorn, aggression and derision. Look at your posts man! Most of the "old timers" here are expressing fervent solidarity with what I'm saying, and yet, here you are...


----------



## maxista

Cou-ber said:


> Well, you did post your passenger referral bonuses with identifying info. Wouldn't be a tremendous feat to run a search for which drivers in week X of May in blah blah blah...they got me and I covered my buns in the EXACT same ways you are. Cockiness kills.


That's on Lyft... Lyft isn't the one I'm attacking here though, furthermore, where's the identifying info? Sure, why not, I would have no issue taking it down but I don't see how I can be "identified" by that pic. I don't see how I'm being cocky either.


----------



## maxista

KingTravisHasNoClothes said:


> Yawn...... Orange jumpsuit ? , really. Well Barnaby Jones you have put the fear of the god "Uber" into me.
> PS: it's obvious that that you have not realized that you have been Uncle Travis's b'itch for some time. Sorry just saying.


Barnaby Jones.  LOL. Fear of the God "Uber" LOOL! 

This guy is unreal. He thinks he's got some kind of "forum cred" on me which gives him the right to be a complete do*che.


----------



## howo3579

maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


Yes let's bend innocent pax over because we got bent over by Uber. You sound like Travis.


----------



## maxista

howo3579 said:


> Yes let's bend innocent pax over because we got bent over by Uber. You sound like Travis.


What did you read one sentence?


----------



## maxista

"No one gives you anything in this life"

Your reasoning is filled with assumptions that reveal your worldview. There's no sense in you continuing on this thread, because you're never going to convince anyone who is actively doing the things that I do, that we are wrong. You see, you don't understand that walking away from your employer isn't how problems are solved in the world. The idea that you should just get up and find another job if you don't like the conditions is not only dangerous and cowardly, it is fundamentally flawed. Your reasoning allows for corporation like Uber to get away with things they would otherwise not get away with.

Your reasoning is dangerous because thinking like that leads to a mindset that allows for no ownership over the labor performed, which is the definition of alienation, and leads to the kind of unjust world you blindly and obediently accept, that is, a world of bullies, might makes right, and systemic injustice.

It is cowardly, because you embrace the status quo and adopt a position that is the least dangerous for you. You are siding with the authority.

Finally, it is flawed because if everyone thought like this there would be no minimum wage, no employee benefits, no worker safety laws, and we would return to the days of the beginning of the industrial age where mass atrocious exploitation was commonplace.

You don't understand history, you don't understand your civic duty as a citizen, you don't understand the concepts of solidarity and of rebellion. You are a traidor to your class.


----------



## Uberedin

howo3579 said:


> Yes let's bend innocent pax over because we got bent over by Uber. You sound like Travis.


I highly doubt it's bending a innocent pax over in the case of money. Me being in the detroit market where the rate is currently 30 cents the 5 dollar fee hardly brings the detroit drivers back into thé green.

FYI I quit driving this past summer before the previous price cut. Due to it becoming over saturated with drivers it was hard to make even a few hundred a week.


----------



## RockinEZ

Uberedin said:


> I highly doubt it's bending a innocent pax over in the case of money. Me being in the detroit market where the rate is currently 30 cents the 5 dollar fee hardly brings the detroit drivers back into thé green.
> 
> FYI I quit driving this past summer before the previous price cut. Due to it becoming over saturated with drivers it was hard to make even a few hundred a week.


I do not blame you at all for quitting. No one can drive for $0.30/mile.

It costs me about $0.28/mile to operate a VW Jetta. I will not drive for $0.90/mile in San Diego unless it is surging. I can't afford to do straight miles at $0.90/mile and ten cents/min.

How the hell do they get drivers in Detroit? What is the dynamic that makes it possible for Uber to blatantly rip off Detroit drivers?


----------



## RockinEZ

KingTravisHasNoClothes said:


> Yawn...... Orange jumpsuit ? , really. Well Barnaby Jones you have put the fear of the god "Uber" into me.
> PS: it's obvious that that you have not realized that you have been Uncle Travis's b'itch for some time. Sorry just saying.


No, humorless driver guy. The orange jump suit is for his lifestyle choices. 
That boy obviously makes some bad decisions, and blames others for his choices. 
That usually ends up bad.

Uber can, and has prosecuted drivers for fraud. 
Uber has more lawyers than programmers on the payroll.

I don't think we will hear much from the OP. 
He will burn out quick.


----------



## maxista

RockinEZ said:


> No, humorless driver guy. The orange jump suit is for his lifestyle choices.
> That boy obviously makes some bad decisions, and blames others for his choices.
> That usually ends up bad.
> 
> Uber can, and has prosecuted drivers for fraud.
> Uber has more lawyers than programmers on the payroll.
> 
> I don't think we will hear much from the OP.
> He will burn out quick.


3300 rides buddy. How many do you have under your belt? 9 months and counting.

Say... do you have an Uber Alter in your bedroom that you make offerings to?


----------



## Uberedin

RockinEZ said:


> I do not blame you at all for quitting. No one can drive for $0.30/mile.
> 
> It costs me about $0.28/mile to operate a VW Jetta. I will not drive for $0.90/mile in San Diego unless it is surging. I can't afford to do straight miles at $0.90/mile and ten cents/min.
> 
> How the hell do they get drivers in Detroit? What is the dynamic that makes it possible for Uber to blatantly rip off Detroit drivers?


Not trying to hijack this guy's thread as I think it is great what he is doing! Wish I would have thought of this when I was driving. Would be mind blowing if I added up how much time I waited when I first started driving.

But to answer your question. I think s most drivers don't even know the rate. They see the guarantees on social media of making X amount of dollars a week and just join. I myself did the same thing when I started I seen that I could make over 2000 a week. And just decided to join based on that. Keep in mind this was before the last 2 cuts and for awhile I was averaging around 20 hr. But I only worked during peak times. So in order to make what they claimed you would have to work 80 plus hours a week.

The word is getting around its just a matter of time before the well drys up of new driver. If you check the detroit forum out most people on there have realized this. It's actually funny watching the new members join and praise uber. Then in a week or month later they seé the light.


----------



## howo3579

Uberedin said:


> I highly doubt it's bending a innocent pax over in the case of money. Me being in the detroit market where the rate is currently 30 cents the 5 dollar fee hardly brings the detroit drivers back into thé green.
> 
> FYI I quit driving this past summer before the previous price cut. Due to it becoming over saturated with drivers it was hard to make even a few hundred a week.


It's not pax fault that Uber does this crap. The service is to take pax from point A to B. Other than that they shouldn't expect anything more with this rate. But if you accept a ping just to collect $5 cancellation fee leaving pax waiting wondering where the car is, you are robbing the pax. You made the right decision. If you don't like the rate, quit. I haven't been driving since new years eve and haven't missed Ubering.


----------



## UberCemetery




----------



## maxista

howo3579 said:


> It's not pax fault that Uber does this crap. The service is to take pax from point A to B. Other than that they shouldn't expect anything more with this rate. But if you accept a ping just to collect $5 cancellation fee leaving pax waiting wondering where the car is, you are robbing the pax. You made the right decision. If you don't like the rate, quit. I haven't been driving since new years eve and haven't missed Ubering.


The PAX need to learn the hard way, and should be made aware. Uber's about to be ruined from within, thanks in part, to people like us who have the guts to stand up for ourselves. It is in fact, in part, the PAX's fault; use Lyft, or if in Phoenix, Fare.


----------



## Dontmakemepullauonyou

UberLou said:


> Where does it say in Uber's rules to accept a ride with Lyft after already accepting an Uber and force the Uber rider to cancel the request? That is the definition of Crooked.


The private contractor part.


----------



## superhans

Maxista, good on you, I like your style (could not be bothered to read all the posts)....who the hell is been raked over the coals here?
Boy this puritanical approach by people really only applies to the little guy, every technique in the book is used by the 1% to screw you and then pay no tax but when you try to 'manage' an angle against them the loons come out in force defending Uber....I know it stems from a belief in God but don't forget Jesus was on the underdogs side....I think.
I have not driven for several months as I was getting a feeling of low self esteem from driving, or maybe paranoia at the quiet pax in the back thinking what an idiot I am driving my nice car for pennies, it just didn't feel good providing a 4.86 service at pool rates, now I am happy again....lol.
But I think I might try your techniques and head out again, just for fun.
I know this sounds bad but I started to not like the type of customer getting in my car, a year ago it seemed different but the price reductions have made Uber available to all strata of society and there are certain strata I never want to meet...take it as you wish, my car and expense, I should get to decide on a whole load of factors who rides with me.
....Maxista, great thread, as I say didn't read middle pages as the cray crays seemed to be coming out in force (stealing etc), yeah, if the dipsh*t ain't ready for you at curb within a couple of mins then they deserve to get a cxl fee in my mind, what sense of entitlement (to coin a Fox talking point) do these pax think they have at these rates?
One point with Lyft, they have little boxes for surge which is absurd as its more likely winning the lottery or getting into an Uber accident perhaps....than finding yourself in a box and their cancellation policy requires you drive to the location, wait five mins AND then call the delinquent [email protected] sake, what more do they want?


----------



## Uber Kraus

Or maybe just .


----------



## superhans

MiddleClassedOut said:


> I applaud this post, and wish I would have thought of this strategy when I was doing both.
> 
> We live in a highly competitive capitalist society. If you are not bending all the rules of ethics and morality to make money, you're doing it wrong. You're nothing but a tool for Uber/Lyft.
> 
> It is funny how much acrimony this guy is generating. Despite the fact that Americans like to think of themselves as "individualistic" and "innovators," this is the most passive, unquestioning country I've ever been in (and I've traveled a lot in my past lives.) You guys just sit and take whatever the corporations and government hand to you, and you're anti-government when government IS the representation of the people's will. It's still a functioning democracy here, even if it's very hard to make change happen because of people's passive, go-along, get-along attitudes toward authority and the structures that are in place.
> 
> Meanwhile in France, taxi drivers have shut down UberX and Uber's criminal executives have gone to trial. Who went to jail in the US of any significance over the collapse of the financial system due to willfull negligence, fraud, and all those bad loans in 2008? No one.


Perfect Middle Class, the epitome of what you are saying is seen when I watch a soccer match, the referee gets all sorts of virulent 'feedback' from the players at all levels, you can tell what they are saying quite clearly and its not 'yes sir, I'll get right back to my position', whereas in an NFL game they are treated with such respect and rulings are immediately adhered to, it reflects on the greater society where everyone takes it up the shooter without a word and then blames government, not the corporations screwing you every which way. If you step out of bounds so to speak in the NFL you will get immediately deactivated, much like Uber...LOL. Besides them being a non taxed entity or something crazy, despite their power I don't think they can keep the lid on the concussion syndrome thingy and their demise along with Uber's will be well deserved.
This is a blinding thread, sweet Maxista.


----------



## maxista

superhans said:


> Maxista, good on you, I like your style (could not be bothered to read all the posts)....who the hell is been raked over the coals here?
> Boy this puritanical approach by people really only applies to the little guy, every technique in the book is used by the 1% to screw you and then pay no tax but when you try to 'manage' an angle against them the loons come out in force defending Uber....I know it stems from a belief in God but don't forget Jesus was on the underdogs side....I think.
> I have not driven for several months as I was getting a feeling of low self esteem from driving, or maybe paranoia at the quiet pax in the back thinking what an idiot I am driving my nice car for pennies, it just didn't feel good providing a 4.86 service at pool rates, now I am happy again....lol.
> But I think I might try your techniques and head out again, just for fun.
> I know this sounds bad but I started to not like the type of customer getting in my car, a year ago it seemed different but the price reductions have made Uber available to all strata of society and there are certain strata I never want to meet...take it as you wish, my car and expense, I should get to decide on a whole load of factors who rides with me.
> ....Maxista, great thread, as I say didn't read middle pages as the cray crays seemed to be coming out in force (stealing etc), yeah, if the dipsh*t ain't ready for you at curb within a couple of mins then they deserve to get a cxl fee in my mind, what sense of entitlement (to coin a Fox talking point) do these pax think they have at these rates?
> One point with Lyft, they have little boxes for surge which is absurd as its more likely winning the lottery or getting into an Uber accident perhaps....than finding yourself in a box and their cancellation requires you drive to the location, wait five mins AND then call the delinquent [email protected] sake, what more do they want?


Ahhhhh... yes. We are of the same ilk my friend. Reading your reply brings a smile to my face and relaxation to my sphincter.

It is quite a sight isn't it? Watching those plebs squabble and raise their torches at us, as though we were the tyrants with our little cars and apps.

Solidarity my friend, get out there and start the madness. Be bold. Cause a raucus.

Truth be told, when I don't drive for a couple days, I start to miss what I do. For so many of my passengers, they have no idea what's about to hit 'em.


----------



## Uber 1

maxista said:


> LOL! The real dicks are Uber for lowering the rates and passengers who never tip and who are OK using a service that enslaves their drivers! This is clever, smart way of fighting back, and frankly, you guys are seriously taking this way out of proportion.


I like a lot of what you are saying and doing.

The reason you SHOULD stay on as a driver can be covered in the old saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer!".....Be on the inside and work from there...stay in the "loop" and attack from within (where they will not likely look.....Dang it I wished YOU worked at Ubers Data center!).

As far as taking $$ from Uber.....

I have a friend who is on the government take (welfare) YET he constantly bad mouths the govenrment.

I asked him if he thought it was ironic that he takes (accepts) $$ from the yet bad mouths them and would be happy to see the government overthrown?

He replied that he is doing his "part" (hurting the gov't) by "bleeding the beast" (taking $$ from the gov't).

I thought it was like biting the hand that feeds you BUT I do see his point.

Sometime you do have to think "outside the box" and for that I have to applaud the OP.

Andy

PS- I like the way you think and would like to see if you'd be interested in being part of a "dream team" to help bring Uber down....PM me if you are interested (FWIW - if anybody else is interested in trying earnest to do the same thing PM me).


----------



## Uber 1

ivanp said:


> I can't believe how many people here are defending Uber against the OP. Y'all need to wake up and take a look around. Do you think there are *any* executives at Uber who are standing up for the best interest of the driver? In case there's any doubt at this point, the answer is NO. So why are you standing up for Uber?
> 
> Uber's core business value is class warfare. In Uber's eyes, it's the Uber against the drivers, plain and simple. Their long-term goal is to eliminate the driver and their short term goal is to exploit the drivers as much as possible. Consumers can get caught up in the cross-fire, but if Uber didn't throw the first 50 punches, we wouldn't be in this struggle.
> 
> What we need now is unity amongst the drivers. Any non-violent, legal, tactics that help drivers, should be whole-heartedly embraced by the community. And the OP has done a great service by making this post.


BOOM....they poster hit the nail on the head...

It IS a class thing....

The RICH don't give a flying F about anything so long as it makes them $$.

The welfare frauds don't give a F about anything so long as they keep getting theirs....

The Middle Class (THE workers) ONLY get to do the WORK that supports the other 2 sides...AND to add insult to injury WE get TAXED the highest percentage of our income !

WE do HAVE to unite IF we are to succeed / survive.

Andy

PS - I am working on a project to help us Uber drivers....PM me if interested (remember the "Uniting" part?)


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

arto71 said:


> For Those who defend uber and its KGB style practices, I advice them to read this .
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber...ense-plates-of-protesting-drivers-cars.58768/
> 
> And this is want is coming your way if you try to voice your opinion
> *Driver says Uber targeted his profile after he critiqued high-level executive*
> *http://www.sfexaminer.com/driver-sa...file-after-he-critiqued-high-level-executive/*
> maxista , I would have to say ,you got a little bit excessive cancelation rate.


POST # 78/arto71: Bostonian Bison
Thanks You for this
Hyperlinked SF Examiner.com Article
that lends TOTAL CREDENCE to my
Longstanding Contention that T.K. is
living out LIFE as a Real World "Big
Brother", the Evil Electronic Overlord
from George Orwell's 1949 Dystopian
Novel, "1984" :

Http://uberpeople.net/posts/834325

Bison: Read it and Weep!


----------



## maxista

Uber 1 said:


> I like a lot of what you are saying and doing.
> 
> The reason you SHOULD stay on as a driver can be covered in the old saying "keep your friends close and your enemies closer!".....Be on the inside and work from there...stay in the "loop" and attack from within (where they will not likely look.....Dang it I wished YOU worked at Ubers Data center!).
> 
> As far as taking $$ from Uber.....
> 
> I have a friend who is on the government take (welfare) YET he constantly bad mouths the govenrment.
> 
> I asked him if he thought it was ironic that he takes (accepts) $$ from the yet bad mouths them and would be happy to see the government overthrown?
> 
> He replied that he is doing his "part" (hurting the gov't) by "bleeding the beast" (taking $$ from the gov't).
> 
> I thought it was like biting the hand that feeds you BUT I do see his point.
> 
> Sometime you do have to think "outside the box" and for that I have to applaud the OP.
> 
> Andy
> 
> PS- I like the way you think and would like to see if you'd be interested in being part of a "dream team" to help bring Uber down....PM me if you are interested (FWIW - if anybody else is interested in trying earnest to do the same thing PM me).


You're going to get a private message from me, yes. I'm not sure about the comparison you made, but I have two other apps I drive for, and no intention of quitting. I am in fact, a mole, a saboteur. I truly enjoy this role, not only because it's exciting, but because the greater cause is noble and just.


----------



## maxista

Uber 1 said:


> BOOM....they poster hit the nail on the head...
> 
> It IS a class thing....
> 
> The RICH don't give a flying F about anything so long as it makes them $$.
> 
> The welfare frauds don't give a F about anything so long as they keep getting theirs....
> 
> The Middle Class (THE workers) ONLY get to do the WORK that supports the other 2 sides...AND to add insult to injury WE get TAXED the highest percentage of our income !
> 
> WE do HAVE to unite IF we are to succeed / survive.
> 
> Andy
> 
> PS - I am working on a project to help us Uber drivers....PM me if interested (remember the "Uniting" part?)


Absolutely, this is a class issue.

You should know that the welfare "frauds" as you call them, are fighting for scraps falling off the master's table. The real enemies are the .01% and their legions of willing slaves.


----------



## cleve216land

I do stuff like this all the time. It's about max profit with me. I speed with pax in the car and everything. If they offer sex, I take it. Offer food from the drive threw, I take it. A Pepsi from the gas station as well. Extra cash for stopping during route.


----------



## Body Politic

maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


And this, folks, is exactly the kind of driver that will come to represent the face of Uber as they aggressively pursue their race to the bottom.

Congratulations, Uber. You've earned it.


----------



## RockinEZ

I was thinking WTF there are some very casual replies.
It is only a little after 9pm and then it hits me, on the east coast it is already after brown whiskey time.


----------



## maxista

RockinEZ said:


> I was thinking WTF there are some very casual replies.
> It is only a little after 9pm and then it hits me, on the east coast it is already after brown whiskey time.


Once again, pointless comment based on some kind of awkward angle on a forum's cultural totem pole.


----------



## maxista

cleve216land said:


> I do stuff like this all the time. It's about max profit with me. I speed with pax in the car and everything. If they offer sex, I take it. Offer food from the drive threw, I take it. A Pepsi from the gas station as well. Extra cash for stopping during route.


Hahaha. Amen.


----------



## Cou-ber

maxista said:


> That's on Lyft... Lyft isn't the one I'm attacking here though, furthermore, where's the identifying info? Sure, why not, I would have no issue taking it down but I don't see how I can be "identified" by that pic. I don't see how I'm being cocky either.


How many French male UberX drivers with an "eh" rating from driving long stretches at night for the last 9-11 months in Pheonix received $1700 in passenger referral bonuses in late May of 2015?

You're cocky simply for not seeing how these things can be used to identify you and pretty much every post you've written in this thread. Really, I'm not opposed to cocky or to what you are doing.

What I do have issue with is the mentality that because wrongs happen, yours can too. This is an emotionally stunted mindset that cements you to a place that allows no inspection or reflection and no elevation in thinking or behavior. This is wickedly sad.

Very wickedly sad because this mentality matches Uber's corporate maturity and...well, brother, aren't you better than that? Why do you want to be in that company?


----------



## Cou-ber

How the hell do they get drivers in Detroit? What is the dynamic that makes it possible for Uber to blatantly rip off Detroit drivers?[/QUOTE]

When the new rates went public on 1/9, someone somewhere in these forums hit upon a point that I know I'd not considered that in that 30 cents per mile ride is also the offensive butt rape assjuice cocktail of 30 c./minute. In Houston, my minute sets you back $.11. Yes, agreed--ALL agree the rates in EVERY city Uber is suck. This is not debatable. We *know* this to be true. But consider this:

UberX, 2 miles, 14 minutes
(straight math, no surge, no fees, no base)
2 miles X .30 = .60 2 miles X .87= 1.74
14 min X .30= 4.20. 14 min X .11= 1.54

Detroit = $4.80 Houston = $3.28

Insert your city numbers. What do you get?

Makes you go hmmmmmm, don't it??

Chew on all this and its possible meanings.


----------



## UberNOT4me

maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


I love this, I am already using some of these techniques. And for those people who are against this, I guess, they love Uber more than their families.

Whatever chance I get to get riders to change to lyft I do it. If it's Lyft pax, I thanked them for requesting Lyft and encourage them to keep using it. If I get a Uber pax, I tell them how horrible Uber is and I give them Lyft code.

I have also been taking advantage of cancellation fees. I keep the lyft app on when I get a ping for Uber. I hit arrive 3 mins before the destination. If I get a lyft request, I quickly reroute towards lyft pax. I have 2 phones, so what I do is I will turn off my location service for the Uber app. This doesn't sign you out, it will show on the app that you are parked in that location. And keep it that way until the uber pax cancels and I collect the cancellation fee.

Why I do this?

Any work place, if the employees are not treated or paid fairly, the customer service is horrible. And I don't think Uber really cares about the drivers since we are all "Independent Contractors"


----------



## maxista

Cou-ber said:


> How many French male UberX drivers with an "eh" rating from driving long stretches at night for the last 9-11 months in Phoenix received $1700 in passenger referral bonuses in late May of 2015?
> 
> You're cocky simply for not seeing how these things can be used to identify you and pretty much every post you've written in this thread. Really, I'm not opposed to cocky or to what you are doing.
> 
> What I do have issue with is the mentality that because wrongs happen, yours can too. This is an emotionally stunted mindset that cements you to a place that allows no inspection or reflection and no elevation in thinking or behavior. This is wickedly sad.
> 
> Very wickedly sad because this mentality matches Uber's corporate maturity and...well, brother, aren't you better than that? Why do you want to be in that company?


I'd like to address all your points:

1. You're assuming that Lyft and Uber communicate. Do you really think that there's an inter-Uber-Lyft conspiracy that's going to go so far as to hunt me down because what I'm doing is so terrible? Come on mate. 
2. You're also assuming that Uber knows my birthplace, which they don't.
3. My rating goes up and down. It's been as high as 4.91, as low as 4.78. Quite a variance. 
4. I also don't see how me "not seeing" these things makes me cocky. 
5. Comparing me and what I'm doing to Uber is not only way out of proportion, is also just plain ridiculous. 
6. I'm not "in the company", I'm an independent contractor running my own business. I do cash deals, I drive for Fare, Lyft, and yes, Uber.


----------



## maxista

UberEffedMe said:


> I love this, I am already using some of these techniques. And for those people who are against this, I guess, they love Uber more than their families.
> 
> Whatever chance I get to get riders to change to lyft I do it. If it's Lyft pax, I thanked them for requesting Lyft and encourage them to keep using it. If I get a Uber pax, I tell them how horrible Uber is and I give them Lyft code.
> 
> I have also been taking advantage of cancellation fees. I keep the lyft app on when I get a ping for Uber. I hit arrive 3 mins before the destination. If I get a lyft request, I quickly reroute towards lyft pax. I have 2 phones, so what I do is I will turn off my location service for the Uber app. This doesn't sign you out, it will show on the app that you are parked in that location. And keep it that way until the uber pax cancels and I collect the cancellation fee.
> 
> Why I do this?
> 
> Any work place, if the employees are not treated or paid fairly, the customer service is horrible. And it I don't think Uber really cares about their drivers since we are "Independent Contractors"


Nice, that's pretty much exactly what I do. Very well done. The two phone deal and turning off your location services is brilliant. I only use one phone so you're a step ahead of me there. Well done sir.


----------



## Guest

what's Fare? Maxista, you're the man.


----------



## Body Politic

Cou-ber said:


> When the new rates went public on 1/9, someone somewhere in these forums hit upon a point that I know I'd not considered that in that 30 cents per mile ride is also the offensive butt rape assjuice cocktail of 30 c./minute. In Houston, my minute sets you back $.11. Yes, agreed--ALL agree the rates in EVERY city Uber is suck. This is not debatable. We *know* this to be true. But consider this:
> 
> UberX, 2 miles, 14 minutes
> (straight math, no surge, no fees, no base)
> 2 miles X .30 = .60 2 miles X .87= 1.74
> 14 min X .30= 4.20. 14 min X .11= 1.54
> 
> Detroit = $4.80 Houston = $3.28
> 
> Insert your city numbers. What do you get?
> 
> Makes you go hmmmmmm, don't it??
> 
> Chew on all this and its possible meanings.


Detroit's rate structure might make sense in a city with dense traffic where drivers are sitting in stop-and-go traffic much of the time. That doesn't describe Detroit. It's almost never going to take you 14 minutes to drive 2 miles. Under normal conditions it shouldn't take you more than 5.


----------



## Cou-ber

maxista said:


> I'd like to address all your points:
> 
> 1. You're assuming that Lyft and Uber communicate. Do you really think that there's an inter-Uber-Lyft conspiracy that's going to go so far as to hunt me down because what I'm doing is so terrible? Come on mate.
> 2. You're also assuming that Uber knows my birthplace, which they don't.
> 3. My rating goes up and down. It's been as high as 4.91, as low as 4.78. Quite a variance.
> 4. I also don't see how me "not seeing" these things makes me cocky.
> 5. Comparing me and what I'm doing to Uber is not only way out of proportion, is also just plain ridiculous.
> 6. I'm not "in the company", I'm an independent contractor running my own business. I do cash deals, I drive for Fare, Lyft, and yes, Uber.


1. Uber or Lyft, not the point. It's the info that identifies you to whomever. It's been broadcast for any to receive. 
2. Again, Uber or whatever, the info is out. 
3. Minor variable. 
4. Seriously? This really isn't contestable.
5. I didn't compare you to Uber, you did. And yes it is out of proportion. Ridiculous indeed. For you to claim nobility for righting the wrongs of Uberworld because "Uber does it too and way worse" is ridiculous. You sound like a first grader busted at recess for whatever infraction and screaming, "he did it too and her too and him and him and..." Hence company. Don't you want to aspire to be more than just like them?


----------



## maxista

Cou-ber said:


> When the new rates went public on 1/9, someone somewhere in these forums hit upon a point that I know I'd not considered that in that 30 cents per mile ride is also the offensive butt rape assjuice cocktail of 30 c./minute. In Houston, my minute sets you back $.11. Yes, agreed--ALL agree the rates in EVERY city Uber is suck. This is not debatable. We *know* this to be true. But consider this:
> 
> UberX, 2 miles, 14 minutes
> (straight math, no surge, no fees, no base)
> 2 miles X .30 = .60 2 miles X .87= 1.74
> 14 min X .30= 4.20. 14 min X .11= 1.54
> 
> Detroit = $4.80 Houston = $3.28
> 
> Insert your city numbers. What do you get?
> 
> Makes you go hmmmmmm, don't it??
> 
> Chew on all this and its possible meanings.


There's been something weird going on since this latest round of rate cuts have started taking effect. I'm starting to notice surges at times where there were none before, and in areas where they never happened.

Here's my city.

Phoenix. 
2 miles .75 = 1.50
14 mins x. 12 = 1.68= 3.18


----------



## Cou-ber

Body Politic said:


> Detroit's rate structure might make sense in a city with dense traffic where drivers are sitting in stop-and-go traffic much of the time. That doesn't describe Detroit. It's almost never going to take you 14 minutes to drive 2 miles. Under normal conditions it shouldn't take you more than 5.


Like I said "all its meanings"...still gives some pause? All I meant. No challenge is necessary. Putting it out there.


----------



## Cou-ber

maxista said:


> There's been something weird going on since this latest round of rate cuts have started taking effect. I'm starting to notice surges at times where there were none before, and in areas where they never happened.
> 
> Here's my city.
> 
> Phoenix.
> 2 miles .75 = 1.50
> 14 mins x. 12 = 1.68= 3.18


We're all getting raped regardless of zip.


----------



## maxista

Cou-ber said:


> 1. Uber or Lyft, not the point. It's the info that identifies you to whomever. It's been broadcast for any to receive.
> 2. Again, Uber or whatever, the info is out.
> 3. Minor variable.
> 4. Seriously? This really isn't contestable.
> 5. I didn't compare you to Uber, you did. And yes it is out of proportion. Ridiculous indeed. For you to claim nobility for righting the wrongs of Uberworld because "Uber does it too and way worse" is ridiculous. You sound like a first grader busted at recess for whatever infraction and screaming, "he did it too and her too and him and him and..." Hence company. Don't you want to aspire to be more than just like them?


1. No there isn't. 
2. Lol? What info? 
3. That's a huge variable. 
4. Yes, yes it is. Just because I'm confident and sure of what I'm doing doesn't make me cocky.
5. Look around, there are plenty of other drivers who do what I do, and they see it the same way. I'm not exploiting millions of people man! I'm just one guy running his business the best way he can, using Uber's own passengers against Uber, just like Uber uses passengers against drivers. It's not the same thing, because I'm just trying to make a living, and to get people, both PAX and drivers, to unite and work together to undermine an evil corporation who ultimately wants to get rid of all of its drivers!

Of course I do... that's why I'm doing what I do... that's why I posted this thread!


----------



## maxista

DenverPotholes said:


> what's Fare? Maxista, you're the man.


Thanks.  There are lots of other awesome people here too I see that now! Props to all of you. Fare is a local startup here in Phoenix. 1.40/mile! No surges. Just a flat 1.40 a mile. Riders can request scheduled rides and select preferred drivers! It's not officially launched, but it's live. I'm one of the first active drivers. There's still some bugs, and they're working out some kinks, but it's working and I've already been paid a couple times for a few rides.


----------



## Body Politic

Cou-ber said:


> Like I said "all its meanings"...still gives some pause? All I meant. No challenge is necessary. Putting it out there.


And I'm just putting a counterpoint out there.


----------



## Cou-ber

This is boring me now.


----------



## howo3579

Uber 1 said:


> BOOM....they poster hit the nail on the head...
> 
> It IS a class thing....
> 
> The RICH don't give a flying F about anything so long as it makes them $$.
> 
> The welfare frauds don't give a F about anything so long as they keep getting theirs....
> 
> The Middle Class (THE workers) ONLY get to do the WORK that supports the other 2 sides...AND to add insult to injury WE get TAXED the highest percentage of our income !
> 
> WE do HAVE to unite IF we are to succeed / survive.
> 
> Andy
> 
> PS - I am working on a project to help us Uber drivers....PM me if interested (remember the "Uniting" part?)


No one is defending Uber. We are defending customers. It's not their fault that they want the cheapest price. We are the one agree on the fare price. If you don't like it negotiate a different fare with pax which is perfectly legal or don't drive.

Think about it this way. If you bought a TV from Amazon with a very good deal, do you think Amazon has the right to not ship the TV while keeping your money because they've realized they sold the TV for too cheap? In Uber's case, you are the merchant and pax are the one paying to get the product. If a merchant don't want to sell the product at a loss, simply don't sell it. You can't just take customers money but not deliver the product.

As far as your friend's story goes, he's simply a leech. Welfare is meant for people who face hard time before they get back on their feet. Where do you think the welfare money come from? It surely is not from the government. It's people like your friend who play and take advantage of the system makes me at times wish we adopt a true capitalism. No min wage, no regulation. Rich gets richer. Middle class and non-skilled get screwed.


----------



## UberNOT4me

howo3579 said:


> No one is defending Uber. We are defending customers. It's not their fault that they want the cheapest price. We are the one agree on the fare price. If you don't like it negotiate a different fare with pax which is perfectly legal or don't drive.
> 
> Think about it this way. If you bought a TV from Amazon with a very good deal, do you think Amazon has the right to not ship the TV while keeping your money because they've realized they sold the TV for too cheap? In Uber's case, you are the merchant and pax are the one paying to get the product. If a merchant don't want to sell the product at a loss, simply don't sell it. You can't just take customers money but not deliver the product.
> 
> As far as your friend's story goes, he's simply a leech. Welfare is meant for people who face hard time before they get back on their feet. Where do you think the welfare money come from? It surely is not from the government. It's people like your friend who play and take advantage of the system makes me at times wish we adopt a true capitalism. No min wage, no regulation. Rich gets richer. Middle class and non-skilled get screwed.


----------



## KingTravisHasNoClothes

maxista said:


> Almost everyone who disagrees here is either:
> a. a part time driver with little at stake in this game
> b. a rider with a sense of consumerist entitlement (which I could write about for days)
> 
> Thank you for our support. I know there are a lot more drivers who feel this way who don't want to say it publicly.


It's only my opinion, and with $1.09 will get you a free cup of coffee at the nearest circle k from 1m-1:am.
The majority of negative flak is simply newbie drivers who have yet to realize that they have been prostituted by the pimp uncle travis. And just like the Dali lama the newbie will try to walk the path of the righteous and that's ok.
But for those of us who are in it to squeeze every $ out of every hour on the road, we get it.
we are simply getting down in the gutter with uncle travis and gaming him and only him, as for the pax boo-hoo.
The majority of pax know that X is dirt cheap and will not cough up $2.00 tip on a ride that is at 50% cheaper than a cab yet cleaner, safer and 100% more friendlier.
From one Az driver to another , I for one solute you !


----------



## howo3579

UberEffedMe said:


> View attachment 28079


Not disagreeing with Branson's philosophy. I doubt when he said this, he's thinking he'd hire and take care of an employee who has no moral ground and will blindly steal customer's money just because he's not happy with a job he applied and accepted. At this rate, I don't want to spend extra effort to clean my car or make pax comfortable. I double dip with Lyft and cancel Uber request if I want. I listen to music that I want and the volume I prefer. I collect my cancellation fee if pax doesn't respond or show up in 5 min. But that's the shitty service you'll get with Uber which is completely different than no service at all while stealing pax's money.


----------



## maxista

KingTravisHasNoClothes said:


> It's only my opinion, and with $1.09 will get you a free cup of coffee at the nearest circle k from 1m-1:am.
> The majority of negative flak is simply newbie drivers who have yet to realize that they have been prostituted by the pimp uncle travis. And just like the Dali lama the newbie will try to walk the path of the righteous and that's ok.
> But for those of us who are in it to squeeze every $ out of every hour on the road, we get it.
> we are simply getting down in the gutter with uncle travis and gaming him and only him, as for the pax boo-hoo.
> The majority of pax know that X is dirt cheap and will not cough up $2.00 tip on a ride that is at 50% cheaper than a cab yet cleaner, safer and 100% more friendlier.
> From one Az driver to another , I for one solute you !


Hear hear brother! I have a related post for AZ driver's I'm thinking about writing, about the recent rate cut, and perhaps what may seem like a change in their surge algorithm.


----------



## Disgusted Driver

maxista Again, I ask that you stop rationalizing, saying most of the time it's legitimate (means that some of the time it's not), that they can complain to Uber and get a refund (why should they have to do something to get back the money that's theirs and it's ok to stick Uber with it) ....

Own it! I have stolen things in my life and I admit it to myself. Don't lie to yourself. I have gotten to the point where my ethics have been compromised driving Uber, I used to make a best faith effort to get a rider if I accepted the ping. Now if it's surging and they don't answer their phone before I'm even there, cancel and get another one. Surge goes up, I'll admit to canceling to get a higher surge. I know it's not "nice" to do that to the pax, but I'm OK with it, I place my finances before their convenience. I will even admit that I've shown up for a surge ride and pax ditched me and I've started and stopped the trip to get my min. surged fare rather than wait 4 more minutes to get $4 and surge is over. Against the rules, yes but I'm OK with it and willing to own it. If I get caught, I accept the consequences.

In short, what I'm trying to say is that I make conscious decisions to do things, I don't allow my brain to make up excuses for me to make me think that what I'm doing is right. I'm human, I do the wrong or greedy things sometimes out of anger or frustration, I accept that and I try to be better. If you don't lie to yourself and make up excuses for what you do, externalizing the blame (it's their fault why I did this, ...) then you will make better decisions and feel better about what you are doing.


----------



## maxista

Disgusted Driver said:


> maxista Again, I ask that you stop rationalizing, saying most of the time it's legitimate (means that some of the time it's not), that they can complain to Uber and get a refund (why should they have to do something to get back the money that's theirs and it's ok to stick Uber with it) ....
> 
> Own it! I have stolen things in my life and I admit it to myself. Don't lie to yourself. I have gotten to the point where my ethics have been compromised driving Uber, I used to make a best faith effort to get a rider if I accepted the ping. Now if it's surging and they don't answer their phone before I'm even there, cancel and get another one. Surge goes up, I'll admit to canceling to get a higher surge. I know it's not "nice" to do that to the pax, but I'm OK with it, I place my finances before their convenience. I will even admit that I've shown up for a surge ride and pax ditched me and I've started and stopped the trip to get my min. surged fare rather than wait 4 more minutes to get $4 and surge is over. Against the rules, yes but I'm OK with it and willing to own it. If I get caught, I accept the consequences.
> 
> In short, what I'm trying to say is that I make conscious decisions to do things, I don't allow my brain to make up excuses for me to make me think that what I'm doing is right. I'm human, I do the wrong or greedy things sometimes out of anger or frustration, I accept that and I try to be better. If you don't lie to yourself and make up excuses for what you do, externalizing the blame (it's their fault why I did this, ...) then you will make better decisions and feel better about what you are doing.


Come on man. You're being so... over dramatic. This really isn't that big of deal. Just the other day, on Valentine's, I had a rider call me and leave a nearly whimpering voicemail because he saw that his ETA of my arrival had gone from 12 mins to 20. Little did he know, that I was on my way to pick up someone else. On his voicemail, in such a pathetically desperate tone, he pleaded that he was going to "miss his reservation". The poor guy sounded so desperate... LOL!

Look brother, I understand that you feel bad for not being perfect all the time, but it's OK! It's awesome that you take such pride and have such a great conscience. Sure, I did feel bad a little too, I admit, but if you really really think about it, what's the big deal? It's one day, one reservation, one tiny moment. The guy didn't even get charged. I'm sure that his loving girl understood it's not her beau's fault, plus, they now have something to talk about during their romantic dinner!  See. Look on the bright side!

I with all due respect, and I do mean that because I can tell you're a good guy, I feel your moral outrage is misplaced. What I'm doing is nothing but a drop in the bucket compared the systemic institutionalized and deliberate exploitation of drivers all over the world. If your conscience speaks to you so fervently, it's odd to me that you're not madder at Uber than you are. As for me, as I've tried to explain that my anger and frustration at being lied to, manipulated, threatened, intimidated, and exploited by Uber, more than allows me to do what I do with a very clear conscience. I believe, unlike some of you, that consumers DO BEAR SOME of the responsibility for these conditions, which why I do what I do. What I do serves a greater purpose, which is to educate and sabotage Uber when I can, by sometimes giving bad service, i.e., cancelling or never showing up, or, by explaining to Uber riders what is really happening, and encouraging them to use other platforms. Now, again, most of the time, they'll get 5 star ride, with a respectful but sincere explanation of the truth.

If you want to judge me, that's cool, I'm ok with it. Best,

M


----------



## bauer

maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


Well said. Don't let any of the naysayers deter you. They are Uber corporate employees. Nothing more.


----------



## Digits

Maxista, you're a freaking genius!!! Thank u Thank u Thank u for your brilliant tips. I feel like an idiot for being an uber slave and driving righteously for peanuts and have been practically losing money with the recent rate cuts,but now I can see how things are gonna change and how this thread of yours made me have an epiphany,I suddenly feel empowered. I want you to tell me if you were a born genius or it happened after getting screwed by uber,whatever the case you're terrific,man.. I've decided that if I have to sell my soul doing evil why do it for a measly $4, it sounds like a pretty long road to paradise and causing very insignificant damage to uber, instead I've deviced a strategy of grabbing tips that the entitled pax are so stingy about,after all we all deserve it for the service we provide as an independent contractor. Uber doesn't care and neither do the pax, so what do I care.. Most of my pax are rich as I drive certain upscale areas so that's gonna be a great start,if they had a few hundred gone,they won't even be bothered and can go about their super rich lives,also most of their gadgets are insured,all they need is make a claim and they will be reimbursed.These new strategies requires a little investment in equipments for self defense and I've gone ahead and ordered a few,one of them is a 10 million volt stun gun. I've also found places that will buy blacklisted iPhones for cash.. I would make thousands in a week without spending much gas,and even if uber deactivates me I will deceptively pick up drunks with a simple uber sticker on the windshield. You have no idea how this thread has put me on the path to riches,thanks to u.And don't pay any attention to the trolls and haters here,they're all freaking jealous of your brilliant ways of managing a successful business. I wish u had come out of the closet with the torch earlier,but as they say "it's never too late". Seriously,you've been a great inspiration and a real mentor.


----------



## Body Politic

Cou-ber said:


> This is boring me now.


You're like, too cool for school man.


----------



## Cou-ber

Body Politic said:


> You're like, too cool for school man.


You're like really lame, man.


----------



## Uber Kraus

maxista said:


> Come on man. You're being so... over dramatic. This really isn't that big of deal. Just the other day, on Valentine's, I had a rider call me and leave a nearly whimpering voicemail because he saw that his ETA of my arrival had gone from 12 mins to 20. Little did he know, that I was on my way to pick up someone else. On his voicemail, in such a pathetically desperate tone, he pleaded that he was going to "miss his reservation". The poor guy sounded so desperate... LOL!
> 
> Look brother, I understand that you feel bad for not being perfect all the time, but it's OK! It's awesome that you take such pride and have such a great conscience. Sure, I did feel bad a little too, I admit, but if you really really think about it, what's the big deal? It's one day, one reservation, one tiny moment. The guy didn't even get charged. I'm sure that his loving girl understood that it's not her beau's fault, plus, hey likely had something to talk about during their romantic dinner!  See. Look on the bright side!
> 
> I with all due respect, and I do mean that because I can tell you're a good guy, I feel your moral outrage is misplaced. What I'm doing is nothing but a drop in the bucket compared the systemic institutionalized and deliberate exploitation of drivers all over the world. If your conscience speaks to you so fervently, it's odd to me that you're not madder at Uber than you are. As for me, as I've tried to explain that my anger and frustration at being lied to, manipulated, threatened, intimidated, and exploited by Uber, more than allows me to do what I do with a very clear conscience. I believe, unlike some of you, that consumers DO BEAR SOME of the responsibility for these conditions, which why I do what I do. What I do serves a greater purpose, which is to educate and sabotage Uber when I can, by sometimes giving bad service, i.e., cancelling or never showing up, or, by explaining to Uber riders what is really happening, and encouraging them to use other platforms. Now, again, most of the time, they'll get 5 star ride, with a respectful but sincere explanation of the truth.
> 
> If you want to judge me, that's cool, I'm ok with it. Best,
> 
> M


Man you're long winded. Disgusted IS mad as hell at Uber. Have you been reading his posts these last few months?

Your actions will not affect Uber. Uber is too big for you and you don't think big picture anyway. You are only creating static with your fellow man.


----------



## ArsenalGunner

maxista said:


> If people are outside, ready to go, and obviously ready to get in, in 99% of cases, I will not cancel on them. I don't see how I'm letting Uber drive me lol. Your reaction is a bit extreme. As I've stated, this is a strategy to fight Uber using Uber's own rules. Most of the time, I am not breaking Uber rules.


You don't have to apologize to some of these defeatist assholess, the idea is to taint uber's name and get what's yours. Do, YOU!


----------



## ArsenalGunner

saucy05 said:


> If you have such a bad experience with Uber why don't you just quit? It is not like they are holding a gun to your head. What you are doing is just plain old robbing people no matter how you try to justify it.


He'll eventually quit, but in the meantime, who says he can't ****k over uber? I've been doing these exact same tricks for about 2 months. No warnings, no nothings from uber.


----------



## SteveNBham

maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


You realize you just admitted to fraud right?


----------



## Body Politic

SteveNBham said:


> You realize you just admitted to fraud right?


You ask as if he cares.

It should only take about 30 seconds of reading his rationalizations to realize nobody is going to reason with him. Either that or he's pulled off the troll of the month. Don't know which, don't really care; not worth engaging in either case.


----------



## ADefaultUser

threads like this are why I don't call UberX anymore.


----------



## Demon

maxista said:


> LOL! The real dicks are Uber for lowering the rates and passengers who never tip and who are OK using a service that enslaves their drivers! This is clever, smart way of fighting back, and frankly, you guys are seriously taking this way out of proportion.


2 wrongs don't make a right.


----------



## Aimless

ADefaultUser said:


> threads like this are why I don't call UberX anymore.


Winning!

For all the talk of stealing and fraud, despite all the mock outrage and accusations blown way out of proportion... this thread is really about customer service.

Intentionally providing poor customer service as a way to fight back against Uber and get PAX to try alternate TNCs. (Lyft, FARE, etc.)

Maxista has been consistently unapologetic about his tactics and apparently that really drives a lot of people right out of their minds. Some of you seem convinced that the Uber TOS is the equivalent of constitutional law and any minor infraction will have the Uber police banging down your door in the middle of the night. Relax.

I said earlier that these types of issues are becoming the norm. Crappy service, intentional or otherwise, is exactly what Uber deserves after treating their "partners" with outright disdain and disregard.


----------



## maxista

Aimless said:


> Winning!
> 
> For all the talk of stealing and fraud, despite all the mock outrage and accusations blown way out of proportion... this thread is really about customer service.
> 
> Intentionally providing poor customer service as a way to fight back against Uber and get PAX to try alternate TNCs. (Lyft, FARE, etc.)
> 
> Maxista has been consistently unapologetic about his tactics and apparently that really drives a lot of people right out of their minds. Some of you seem convinced that the Uber TOS is the equivalent of constitutional law and any minor infraction will have the Uber police banging down your door in the middle of the night. Relax.
> 
> I said earlier that these types of issues are becoming the norm. Crappy service, intentional or otherwise, is exactly what Uber deserves after treating their "partners" with outright disdain and disregard.


Winning indeed!  Great comment. One guy said I should "get used to be in an orange jumpsuit", or something equally ridiculous. LOL! So nice to see the voices of reason coming out to clear the clouds.


----------



## galileo5

ADefaultUser said:


> threads like this are why I don't call UberX anymore.


It's working.


----------



## maxista

Demon said:


> 2 wrongs don't make a right.


You're the second person in this thread to say that, verbatim. My response: Uber's wrongs, and my "wrongs" are not even in the same galaxies, especially since I'm not doing anything wrong.


----------



## maxista

SteveNBham said:


> You realize you just admitted to fraud right?


I didn't admit to fraud, what I'm doing is not fraud, if you think it's fraud, you're very confused about life and your values. You ought to go back and read the dozens of previous comments and explanations from me and many other drivers who are doing the same things. It's not fraud, it's not wrong, it's not even unethical, in fact, it's bold, righteous, and a deliberate courageous act of civil disobedience.


----------



## maxista

ArsenalGunner said:


> He'll eventually quit, but in the meantime, who says he can't ****k over uber? I've been doing these exact same tricks for about 2 months. No warnings, no nothings from uber.


Keep it up brother! I haven't received any warnings at all either!  I've even had a few morons claim they were going to "report me to Uber" for the "worst customer service ever". LOL! I laugh so hard when they say that. Guess what noob, if you were just ready and outside when I got there you would have been picked up.


----------



## maxista

Uber Kraus said:


> Man you're long winded. Disgusted IS mad as hell at Uber. Have you been reading his posts these last few months?
> 
> Your actions will not affect Uber. Uber is too big for you and you don't think big picture anyway. You are only creating static with your fellow man.


Maybe, but I'm having a good time, and in case you haven't noticed, other drivers are coming out and saying they're doing the same thing. It's not like I'm the only one smart enough to figure this crap out on my own. All I've done is explain what a lot of other drivers are already doing is a systematic way. However, you're wrong in that some drivers are now realizing it's OK for them to do these things, and are being inspired to do that same, which was my goal. Time will tell, I certainly don't think that I'm either the start of this or the tipping point; I'm just one guy doing his thing, trying to stir the pot in our favor. Can you really blame me? Not if you're a true human being you can't. Otherwise, let he who hath no sin cast the first stone.


----------



## maxista

howo3579 said:


> Not disagreeing with Branson's philosophy. I doubt when he said this, he's thinking he'd hire and take care of an employee who has no moral ground and will blindly steal customer's money just because he's not happy with a job he applied and accepted. At this rate, I don't want to spend extra effort to clean my car or make pax comfortable. I double dip with Lyft and cancel Uber request if I want. I listen to music that I want and the volume I prefer. I collect my cancellation fee if pax doesn't respond or show up in 5 min. But that's the shitty service you'll get with Uber which is completely different than no service at all while stealing pax's money.


In what instance am I stealing exactly?


----------



## Body Politic

maxista said:


> I didn't admit to fraud, what I'm doing is not fraud, if you think it's fraud, you're very confused about life and your values. You ought to go back and read the dozens of previous comments and explanations from me and many other drivers who are doing the same things. It's not fraud, it's not wrong, it's not even unethical, in fact, it's bold, righteous, and a deliberate courageous act of civil disobedience.


Yeah, you're a regular Rosa Parks.


----------



## maxista

ADefaultUser said:


> threads like this are why I don't call UberX anymore.


Yep, me neither. I use Lyft or Fare when I need a ride, and I tell that to most of my mostly conscience UberX PAX.


----------



## maxista

Body Politic said:


> Yeah, you're a regular Rosa Parks.


Nah, I'm just some joe schmoe (or pierre) makin' a buck tryin' to stick it to the man man!


----------



## maxista

bauer said:


> Well said. Don't let any of the naysayers deter you. They are Uber corporate employees. Nothing more.


Drones in full "agentic state", proponents of the blue pill!


----------



## maxista

Digits said:


> Maxista, you're a freaking genius!!! Thank u Thank u Thank u for your brilliant tips. I feel like an idiot for being an uber slave and driving righteously for peanuts and have been practically losing money with the recent rate cuts,but now I can see how things are gonna change and how this thread of yours made me have an epiphany,I suddenly feel empowered. I want you to tell me if you were a born genius or it happened after getting screwed by uber,whatever the case you're terrific,man.. I've decided that if I have to sell my soul doing evil why do it for a measly $4, it sounds like a pretty long road to paradise and causing very insignificant damage to uber, instead I've deviced a strategy of grabbing tips that the entitled pax are so stingy about,after all we all deserve it for the service we provide as an independent contractor. Uber doesn't care and neither do the pax, so what do I care.. Most of my pax are rich as I drive certain upscale areas so that's gonna be a great start,if they had a few hundred gone,they won't even be bothered and can go about their super rich lives,also most of their gadgets are insured,all they need is make a claim and they will be reimbursed.These new strategies requires a little investment in equipments for self defense and I've gone ahead and ordered a few,one of them is a 10 million volt stun gun. I've also found places that will buy blacklisted iPhones for cash.. I would make thousands in a week without spending much gas,and even if uber deactivates me I will deceptively pick up drunks with a simple uber sticker on the windshield. You have no idea how this thread has put me on the path to riches,thanks to u.And don't pay any attention to the trolls and haters here,they're all freaking jealous of your brilliant ways of managing a successful business. I wish u had come out of the closet with the torch earlier,but as they say "it's never too late". Seriously,you've been a great inspiration and a real mentor.


Ok so I must admit, the first time I skimmed your response, I was like, ok he's being sarcastic, then the second time I read it almost completely, and thought, wait... is he just, serious and maybe a little crazy?! But now that I've read this carefully, I realize that you are in fact being sarcastic. You lost me at the rich pax part with their gadgets... lol. You're funny brother, you made me laugh. Nice comment, very sarcastic. Even though you clearly resent me, I appreciate your post lol. So funny!


----------



## sellkatsell44

maxista said:


> I didn't admit to fraud, what I'm doing is not fraud, if you think it's fraud, you're very confused about life and your values. It's not fraud, it's not wrong, it's not even unethical, in fact, it's bold, righteous, and a deliberate courageous act of civil disobedience.


Courageous? Try signing up for the army and going overseas first.

Civil disobedience? Are you referencing Thoreau (because that's the first thing I think of with those words) and do you realize the irony of it if you've read his book? Unless you don't want the government to step in and regulate uber, make them more fair and unionize em.

You think that by "harming" the customer service aspect of uber, that folks will not ride it and therefore uber will ultimately fall to its demise but your train of thought is same as those who say, just quit uber since uber without its driver is nothing. Uber will simply get more drivers just like uber will attract more riders that haven't yet used uber (there are millions btw, and world wide).

Instead of sticking it to uber this way, you should look at something different. If not lyft, then Juno.

If you really want to be courageous, you would do something obscene like chain yourself to the outside of their headquarters in SF and go on a hunger strike with a sign in front of you. Eventually it will attract enough media attention to warrant something.

What you're doing is so little that honestly I don't think you even register as a dot on ubers radar. The group of "drivers" that are like you, combined, probably will make a dot, a dot uber can easily overshadow because ultimately what you're doing is of little courage, little sacrifice and people will take little notice.

its not that I'm not sympathetic to the drivers, or even to you despite your "gaming ways".

However, if you think what you're doing actually is civil disobedience I suggest you go and find something else (perhaps sweat shop like environment, and use the words to describe that as reference).


----------



## maxista

sellkatsell44 said:


> Courageous? Try signing up for the army and going overseas first.
> 
> Civil disobedience? Are you referencing Thoreau (because that's the first thing I think of with those words) and do you realize the irony of it if you've read his book? Unless you don't want the government to step in and regulate uber, make them more fair and unionize em.
> 
> You think that by "harming" the customer service aspect of uber, that folks will not ride it and therefore uber will ultimately fall to its demise but your train of thought is same as those who say, just quit uber since uber without its driver is nothing. Uber will simply get more drivers just like uber will attract more riders that haven't yet used uber (there are millions btw, and world wide).
> 
> Instead of sticking it to uber this way, you should look at something different. If not lyft, then Juno.
> 
> If you really want to be courageous, you would do something obscene like chain yourself to the outside of their headquarters in SF and go on a hunger strike with a sign in front of you. Eventually it will attract enough media attention to warrant something.
> 
> What you're doing is so little that honestly I don't think you even register as a dot on ubers radar. The group of "drivers" that are like you, combined, probably will make a dot, a dot uber can easily overshadow because ultimately what you're doing is of little courage, little sacrifice and people will take little notice.
> 
> its not that I'm not sympathetic to the drivers, or even to you despite your "gaming ways".
> 
> However, if you think what you're doing actually is civil disobedience I suggest you go and find something else (perhaps sweat shop like environment, and use the words to describe that as reference).


You nearly lost me at your first sentence. Signing up to go to the Army is courageous? In the year 2016, if you think you're joining the armed forces to be a hero, you're an idiot. Maybe in WWII that made sense, but since the Korean war there's absolutely no sense in that notion whatsoever. If you think you're being brave by joining the ranks of the brainwashed to do the bidding of corrupt corporate sponsored politicians in the pocket of the military industrial complex, you're a sheep, you're an ignorant fool who doesn't know right from wrong, up from down, black from white. Have fun being a "hero" getting your limbs blown off by a bunch of Iraqis/Afghans who you're there to "help".

I drive Lyft, I drive Fare, I drive Uber when it's convenient for me. I know that what I'm doing is flying below Uber's radar, that's why I posted this... so that other drivers could feel encouraged to adopt these techniques. If we all did this, believe me, things would change almost overnight.

Hunger strikes and chains to the Uber building will not only get me arrested, they'll also not pay the bills. The media attention won't do much, and frankly, it all sounds very vain. Here, no one knows who I am, and I like it that way.


----------



## sellkatsell44

maxista said:


> You nearly lost me at your first sentence. Signing up to go to the Army is courageous? In the year 2016, if you think you're joining the armed forces to be a hero, you're an idiot. Maybe in WWII that made sense, but since the Korean war there's absolutely no sense in that notion whatsoever. If you think you're being brave by joining the ranks of the brainwashed to do the bidding of corrupt corporate sponsored politicians in the pocket of the military industrial complex, you're a sheep, you're an ignorant fool who doesn't know right from wrong, up from down, black from white. Have fun being a "hero" getting your limbs blown off by a bunch of Iraqis/Afghans who you're there to "help".
> 
> I drive Lyft, I drive Fare, I drive Uber when it's convenient for me. I know that what I'm doing is flying below Uber's radar, that's why I posted this... so that other drivers could feel encouraged to adopt these techniques. If we all did this, believe me, things would change almost overnight.
> 
> Hunger strikes and chains to the Uber building will not only get me arrested, they'll also not pay the bills. The media attention won't do much, and frankly, it all sounds very vain. Here, no one knows who I am, and I like it that way.


Hero to me is sacrificing for a cause they believe in, even if it means giving up their own life.

How is, scamming uber riders into paying you cancellation fee, courageous?? Let's take the army out, because I was just using that as a reference for folks who do something that has ACTUAL risk which requires one to be COURAGEOUS enough to go forth, knowing the risk at hand. Whether you respect that or not, (I'm not even sure how it being 2016 factors in), is a whole another subject. We won't go down the rabbit hole.

Again, how is scamming uber riders into paying you cancellation fee, COURAGEOUS? Why not find some brilliant way to hack into ubers account and distribute the funds to the uber drivers? Certainly there's no risk in being killed in doing so but it's still more "heroic" then doing something like playing "cancel the pax and make them wait". Btw, since you don't cancel every single ride, how do you pick? Doesn't that make you sound like a prick?

And liking no one to know who you are, flying under the radar...right, sounds real COURAGEOUS.

And pls address the civil disobedience reference?


----------



## CHVY9900

maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


This is awesome, I pretty much do the same thing right now, I also added the VISA AND MASTERCARD LOGO the back of my seats so the riders can see I accept tips, NOW I AVERAGE $40.00 A NIGHT SINCE THE RATE CUTS AND IM MAKING MORE MONEY CANCELLING. I don't care what other say I agree with you 100%


----------



## BiggestScamInHistory

glados said:


> This post is almost a guide on how to not only get deactivated, but also how to commit fraud. Sure, it's only $4 or so per fake cancellation, but keep doing it and it'll add up and you might see a lawsuit coming your way.
> 
> Here's a checklist for fraud:
> 
> Misrepresentation of a material fact ✓ You are claiming that you've arrived at the pickup point before you arrive. You are also claiming to drive to a pickup point while in fact servicing another excludable request.
> 
> Knowledge on the part of the accused that they were misrepresenting the fact ✓ You are aware of what you are doing.
> The misrepresentation was made purposefully, with the intent of fooling the victim ✓ As your topic has detailed, you are intentionally engaging in this misrepresentation for material gain.
> 
> The victim believed the misrepresentation and relied upon it ✓ Riders will expect to see you drive to the pick up point when you arrive, and cancel if you have in fact cancelled the request
> 
> The victim suffered damages as a result of the misrepresentation ✓ Riders may be charged a cancellation fee
> FYI, Uber employees do browse this forum.


FYI, grow some balls and be a man. You're literally losing nothing by being booted from an insanely rotten, exploiting network like Uber's. It's actually a blessing to go do something else much more personally beneficial.

Ride-sharing today only benefits the riders (in non-surge or even surge times cheaper than other traditional transport systems), or Uber & Lyft ' s executives and both companies investors who will multiply their already sickening hoarded wealth (while the peon's of society chase pings across cities around the world like hornets).


----------



## glados

BiggestScamInHistory said:


> FYI, grow some balls and be a man. You're literally losing nothing by being booted from an insanely rotten, exploiting network like Uber's. It's actually a blessing to go do something else much more personally beneficial.
> 
> Ride-sharing today only benefits the riders (in non-surge or even surge times cheaper than other traditional transport systems), or Uber & Lyft ' s executives and both companies investors who will multiply their already sickening hoarded wealth (while the peon's of society chase pings across cities around the world like hornets).


 You do realise there are also over 5000 talented employees as well, right? Every Uber full time employee receives stock options.


----------



## BiggestScamInHistory

glados said:


> You do realise there are also over 5000 talented employees as well, right? Every Uber full time employee receives stock options.


What "talents" do they have exactly? Yes, I was aware, but their roughly $10-20/hr day jobs is nothing compared to what the big fish will make out with in the future. Their stock options are likely less generous than other companies, judging by how greedy they seem from the top down.

I didn't include them because they do also actually "work for a living" like drivers, though likely for much less time a week. They also take the same BS top-down orders from Uber's mothership & are the only ones who actually have to deal with those decisions first hand personally, but are still held accountable for the decisions from the higher-ups & will likely take more blame for them and the messes created.

Why go out of your way to compliment these "employees"? Are you 1 of this holy group?


----------



## glados

BiggestScamInHistory said:


> What "talents" do they have exactly?


Uber hires some of the smartest people around. Entrepreneur did a really interesting article on the topic.



BiggestScamInHistory said:


> ? Yes, I was aware, but their roughly $10-20/hr day jobs is nothing compared to what the big fish will make out with in the future.


Uber pays a salary. According to Glassdoor, the average Operations and Logistics Manager earns $74,954 a year. The average Software Engineer makes $115,231 a year.

That's not to mention all the perks, including free Uber credit, a discount on Uber rides, free lunch & dinner, and other cool startup perks.



BiggestScamInHistory said:


> Their stock options are likely less generous than other companies, judging by how greedy they seem from the top down.


Uber's stock options are pretty attractive, with the standard terms (vested over 4 years, cliff of 1 year).



BiggestScamInHistory said:


> Why go out of your way to compliment these "employees"?


Because you're being unfair to them.


----------



## Backdash

glados said:


> Because you're being unfair to them.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

glados said:


> Uber hires some of the smartest people around. Entrepreneur did a really interesting article on the topic.
> 
> Uber pays a salary. According to Glassdoor, the average Operations and Logistics Manager earns $74,954 a year. The average Software Engineer makes $115,231 a year.
> 
> That's not to mention all the perks, including free Uber credit, a discount on Uber rides, free lunch & dinner, and other cool startup perks.
> 
> Uber's stock options are pretty attractive, with the standard terms (vested over 4 years, cliff of 1 year).
> 
> Because you're being unfair to them.


So you're saying we should hope Uber sticks around so all these employees with good salaries and great perks can keep their jobs?

Meanwhile we go broke paying for all that with the ridiculous percentages taken out of our already meagre "earnings"?


----------



## Digits




----------



## howo3579

maxista said:


> In what instance am I stealing exactly?


Accept a ride and drive by the pin leaving pax waiting so you can get cancellation fee? Pretty sure that's the def of stealing. Taking the money without the intention to deliver the service. This is the only part I have problem with your post. Im fine with all the other tactics to play Uber. Best advise you gave is 'quit'. No one is holding you at gun point forcing you to driver Uber.


----------



## howo3579

glados said:


> You do realise there are also over 5000 talented employees as well, right? Every Uber full time employee receives stock options.


Those employees can find somewhere else to work easily. Why would I care about someones lively hood when they don't care about mine? Stock options? Lol who care about their stock options. That's their perks not salary. Pretty sure many sick around at Uber just so they can get rich after IPO. Then they'll leave and start their own things.


----------



## Greguzzi

glados said:


> Because you're being unfair to them.


----------



## maxista

howo3579 said:


> Accept a ride and drive by the pin leaving pax waiting so you can get cancellation fee? Pretty sure that's the def of stealing. Taking the money without the intention to deliver the service. This is the only part I have problem with your post. Im fine with all the other tactics to play Uber. Best advise you gave is 'quit'. No one is holding you at gun point forcing you to driver Uber.


Can the customer get his money back in the unlikely event that that happens?


----------



## maxista

BiggestScamInHistory said:


> What "talents" do they have exactly? Yes, I was aware, but their roughly $10-20/hr day jobs is nothing compared to what the big fish will make out with in the future. Their stock options are likely less generous than other companies, judging by how greedy they seem from the top down.
> 
> I didn't include them because they do also actually "work for a living" like drivers, though likely for much less time a week. They also take the same BS top-down orders from Uber's mothership & are the only ones who actually have to deal with those decisions first hand personally, but are still held accountable for the decisions from the higher-ups & will likely take more blame for them and the messes created.
> 
> Why go out of your way to compliment these "employees"? Are you 1 of this holy group?


Awesome. Love the Uber's mothership part. Too funny!


----------



## maxista

glados said:


> Uber hires some of the smartest people around. Entrepreneur did a really interesting article on the topic.
> 
> Uber pays a salary. According to Glassdoor, the average Operations and Logistics Manager earns $74,954 a year. The average Software Engineer makes $115,231 a year.
> 
> That's not to mention all the perks, including free Uber credit, a discount on Uber rides, free lunch & dinner, and other cool startup perks.
> 
> Uber's stock options are pretty attractive, with the standard terms (vested over 4 years, cliff of 1 year).
> 
> Because you're being unfair to them.


Yea brother, we're being unfair? We're being unfair? You realize who pays those 115-231K salaries? WE DO!

Free Uber credit? Not only do we get raped driving for a few pennies a mile and minute, but we have to drive these high class b*tches around on the way to their free lunches?

I'd love to pick up one of these "engineers" and give them a piece of my mind.

What a mind job dude! WTF!? WOW!!!! LOOOOOL!


----------



## maxista

sellkatsell44 said:


> Hero to me is sacrificing for a cause they believe in, even if it means giving up their own life.
> 
> How is, scamming uber riders into paying you cancellation fee, courageous?? Let's take the army out, because I was just using that as a reference for folks who do something that has ACTUAL risk which requires one to be COURAGEOUS enough to go forth, knowing the risk at hand. Whether you respect that or not, (I'm not even sure how it being 2016 factors in), is a whole another subject. We won't go down the rabbit hole.
> 
> Again, how is scamming uber riders into paying you cancellation fee, COURAGEOUS? Why not find some brilliant way to hack into ubers account and distribute the funds to the uber drivers? Certainly there's no risk in being killed in doing so but it's still more "heroic" then doing something like playing "cancel the pax and make them wait". Btw, since you don't cancel every single ride, how do you pick? Doesn't that make you sound like a prick?
> 
> And liking no one to know who you are, flying under the radar...right, sounds real COURAGEOUS.
> 
> And pls address the civil disobedience reference?


First off, it's not scamming. 
Second, it's courageous because:
a. I get attacked by people like you who call me "thief", "fraud" and all sorts of other ridiculous things. Have you read some of these comments?
b. I get insulted and yelled out by PAX who threaten to "report me" when it does happen.
c. I risk losing one of my main sources of income if I get deactivated. 
d. I'm clearly pushing the rules to their limits.

2016 factors in because we have something called the "internet". On this "internet", anyone, can read about anything. Any honestly curious person can find plethora of information on recent wars, from Korea onward, that were justified by coercion, lies and propaganda, by the US government and the rogue commercial, corporate, private interests who pull the strings and implement their agendas of wealth, power, and death. Wake up. Most of us are wage slaves at their mercy.

If I "hacked" into Uber's bank accounts, which I wouldn't even know how to, that would be breaking laws that would put me in jail for a very long time. If I lived in Russia, and knew how to do that, maybe I would, but your suggestion is ridiculous. This is the best way I can fight.

I pick which rides I cancel based on circumstance. If I book a Lyft while on the way to pick up a regular non-surge Uber, I'm going to mess with the Uber. It's an occurrence that only happens maybe 5% of the time or less. Again, the PAX having a bad experience, is intentional and part of a larger startegy, AND it makes me more money.

If that's not disobedience, I don't know what is. I'm on the road, almost every day. Driving is one of the dangerous activities a person can do. Last year, I drove nearly 50,000 miles, and I did it, maintaining my dignity, getting pulled over on occasion, avoiding accidents, drunk drivers and having to put up with sometimes rude, sometimes violent passengers. I've been yelled at, spat on, kicked in the face. What do you know? How dangerous is your job? 
You know what? You're starting to piss me off.


----------



## sellkatsell44

maxista said:


> First off, it's not scamming.
> Second, it's courageous because:
> a. I get attacked by people like you who call me "thief", "fraud" and all sorts of other ridiculous things. Have you read some of these comments?
> b. I get insulted and yelled out by PAX who threaten to "report me" when it does happen.
> c. I risk losing one of my main sources of income if I get deactivated.
> d. I'm clearly pushing the rules to their limits.
> 
> 2016 factors in because we have something called the "internet". On this "internet", anyone, can read about anything. Any honestly curious person can find plethora of information on recent wars, from Korea onward, that were justified by coercion, lies and propaganda, by the US government and the rogue commercial, corporate, private interests who pull the strings and implement their agendas of wealth, power, and death. Wake up. Most of us are wage slaves at their mercy.
> 
> If I "hacked" into Uber's bank accounts, which I wouldn't even know how to, that would be breaking laws that would put me in jail for a very long time. If I lived in Russia, and knew how to do that, maybe I would, but your suggestion is ridiculous. This is the best way I can fight.
> 
> I pick which rides I cancel based on circumstance. If I book a Lyft while on the way to pick up a regular non-surge Uber, I'm going to mess with the Uber. It's an occurrence that only happens maybe 5% of the time or less. Again, the PAX having a bad experience, is intentional and part of a larger startegy, AND it makes me more money.
> 
> If that's not disobedience, I don't know what is. I'm on the road, almost every day. Driving is one of the dangerous activities a person can do. Last year, I drove nearly 50,000 miles, and I did it, maintaining my dignity, getting pulled over on occasion, avoiding accidents, drunk drivers and having to put up with sometimes rude, sometimes violent passengers. I've been yelled at, spat on, kicked in the face. What do you know? How dangerous is your job?
> You know what? You're starting to piss me off.


A) scam is defined as a dishonest scheme or swindle. If you don't "feel" it's a scam, doesn't mean it's not.

B) if you didn't do A, no problem.

C) see B

D) rules? It's a rule for you to just sit and wait and laugh at the pax and to collect the cancellation fee?

Your explanation of 2016 and the Internet and the no need for war is so laughable it's not even funny. It's not all propaganda.

The suggestion to hack is just one, of possibly many ways you can actually disrupt uber. The ways you're suggesting does nothing major, again, just a mere speck.

Key word is civil disobedience but thanks for dropping the civil part and just saying you're disobeying uber, a company that you call "master"

I think anyone who disagrees with you automatically pisses you off but that's ok, I'm not in it to piss you off, but I am not going to ride along your agenda or possible propaganda--just so you're happy or not pissed off at me


prop·a·gan·da
ˌpräpəˈɡandə/
_noun_

*1*. 
derogatory
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view


----------



## howo3579

maxista said:


> Can the customer get his money back in the unlikely event that that happens?


Maybe or maybe not. Uber caters first time pax but not for frequent users because Uber also get $1 for each cancellation. If you want to scam the pax, own up to it. Don't justify it by saying it's an unlikely event. It's like I'm allow to rob you once a year because the inconvenient of reporting to police and catch me and get your stuff back is only an once a year deal.
Seriously if you have time thinking of ways to screw customers why not invest the time to learn a trade so you can get a real job instead of doing this easy gig that requires no skill whatsoever and everyone with a driver licence can replace you anytime. Better yet, if you can write a program that's as easy to use as Uber app, found your own company and compete with Uber.


----------



## maxista

howo3579 said:


> Maybe or maybe not. Uber caters first time pax but not for frequent users because Uber also get $1 for each cancellation. If you want to scam the pax, own up to it. Don't justify it by saying it's an unlikely event. It's like I'm allow to rob you once a year because the inconvenient of reporting to police and catch me and get your stuff back is only an once a year deal.
> Seriously if you have time thinking of ways to screw customers why not invest the time to learn a trade so you can get a real job instead of doing this easy gig that requires no skill whatsoever and everyone with a driver licence can replace you anytime. Better yet, if you can write a program that's as easy to use as Uber app, found your own company and compete with Uber.


_"... why not invest the time to learn a trade so you can get a real job..."_

I'm going to spend some time on this part of what you wrote. I warn you brother, this may be hard for you.

If everyone accepts what you wrote, and thought that way, our society would utterly _*COLLAPSE*_.

Oh wait, what? But why?!

Because millions of people work *for* companies, and they are _*necessary*_. For you see, my brother, both you and me, and everyone else needs them! We all need them!!

Let me help you out, because you strike me as being very confused about how the world *actually works*. Haven't you noticed that these _lowly people_ without "real jobs" stock the grocery isles full of the foods you eat? Do you really not know that they drive the commercial trucks to your neighborhood stores so you can get your bread and cheese? Have you missed the ones that clean the bathrooms and shelves of these stores? There's also a whole bunch manning the registers, so you can pay on your way out and purchase your snickers bar!! Or better yet, there are a whole bunch sitting on phones in tiny little cubicle all day and night, waiting for your angry call on tens of thousands of customer service lines, that way you can complain when your underwear made by people who make a dollar a day across the globe didn't get to your house on time! Perhaps you haven't even thought of the ones answering emails from angry customers who got their $5 taken from them by a "fraudulent" driver?!

FOOL!

If everyone accepts your logic about so called "real jobs", tell us man, who is going to fill these millions of positions? Should everyone just walk away and suddenly find a "real job" as soon as they have a grievance with their masters? Should we ALL just get an "education" to become "engineers". You know what?! YAY! You're right!! Let's all take out 50K in government and private bank loans to get a degree in the same kinds of jobs!! Let's see how that works out!!!!

Who is going to pick the lettuce in your salad bro? Who is going to wait on your picky snotty ass at the restaurant? Who would do these "not real jobs"? Huh?! Do you not see how narrow minded, elitist and stupid your argument is? Am I not giving a ride to someone who needs it? How is this not a "real job"? Just because I'm not sitting behind an office or in a store front it's not a "real job" then?!? Am I not giving someone who wants something a service? You think it's easy dealing with thousands of people in different mental states at all times of the day and night, working weekends and holidays? How do you think Uber is able to provide thousands of riders to thousands of people simultaneously to people all over the world? Is Travis going to do it? LOL!

Let me tell you then... since you clearly don't know... it's because people are WORKING these not "real jobs". If you knew anything, you would know that the vast majority of rides are given by people LIKE ME, who do THIS REAL JOB, FULL TIME.

So guess what, you're a fool and a snob.

By the way, do you know how many drunks I've taken home for less than the price of a goddamn beer, and kept their idiotic drunk asses off the road?! Not a real job... People like you understand nothing. This isn't about what people like you consider "real jobs", this isn't about spending our time doing something that you consider "worthwhile". Who made you the decider on what a real job is anyway?

You understand nothing because this is about fairness, it's about justice, it's about treating people who do WORK with dignity and respect. Being paid 12 cents a minute and 75 cents a mile to operate MY VEHICLE, where I ASSUME ALL RISKS, is not only disrespect, it's exploitation! Not to mention, and since we're talking about propaganda with this other dupe above you, that Uber enticed millions of people to work with promises of "Make $1500/week" BS; and yet, you direct your moral indignation at me? You're going to take me from up high from your imaginary pedestal because I'm taking $5 from a company who wants to use me to get stupid filthy rich?! What's wrong with you people?! Your values are twisted!

Dude, your stools stink just like mine. WAKE UP! LOOK AROUND YOU. The American people are HURTING. We're not getting our fair share of the wealth, and it's because of IDIOTS LIKE YOU with those kinds of IDIOTIC ARGUMENTS that it continues to go on.

FOOL!!!


----------



## McLovin

It's a common theme in this forum that anyone can drive for Uber, there is no skill. This is false. Driving in general isn't something everyone can do, hence some of our passengers in this category. 
It does take skill to do it right professionally. Keeping a clean driving record and a reasonable rating is not to be taken lightly. A lot of people can't do it.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

maxista said:


> _"... why not invest the time to learn a trade so you can get a real job..."_
> 
> I'm going to spend some time on this part of what you wrote. You ready? I warn you brother, this may be hard for you...
> 
> Still interest in "debating" with me? OK then, here we go!
> 
> If everyone accept what you wrote, and thought way, our society would utterly _*COLLAPSE*_.
> 
> Oh wait, what? But why?!
> 
> Because millions of people work *for* companies, and they are _*necessary*_. For you see, my brother, both you and me, and everyone else needs them! We all need them!!
> 
> Let me help you out, because you strike me as being very confused about how the world *actually works*. Haven't noticed that these _lowly people_ without "real jobs" stock the grocery isles full of the foods you eat? Do you really not know that they drive the commercial trucks to your neighborhood stores so you can get your bread and cheese? Have you missed the ones that clean the bathrooms and shelves of these stores? There's also a whole bunch manning the registers so you can pay on your way out and purchase your snickers bar!!! Or better yet, there are a whoooole bunch sitting on phones in tiny little cubicle all day so you can call on tens of thousands of customer service lines and complain when your underwear made by people who make a dollar a day accross the globe didn't get to your house on time! Perhaps you haven't even thought of the ones answering emails from angry customers who got their $5 taken from them by a "fraudulent" driver?!
> 
> FOOL!
> 
> If everyone accepts your logic about so called "real jobs", tell us, who would fill these millions of positions? Should everyone just walk away and suddenly find a "real job" as soon as they have a grievance with their masters? Should we ALL get a "education" to become "engineers". YAY! You're right, let's all take out 50K in loans and all get a degree in the same kinds of jobs!! Let's see how that works out!!!!
> 
> Who is going to pick the lettuce in your salad bro? Who is going to wait on your picky snotty ass at the restaurant? Who would do these "not real jobs"? Huh?! Do you not see how narrow minded, elitist and stupid your argument is? Am I not giving a ride to someone who needs it? How is this not a "real job"? Just because I'm not sitting behind an office or in a store front it's not a "real job" then?!? Am I not giving someone who wants something a service? You think it's easy dealing with thousands of people in different states at all times of the day and night, working weekends and holidays? How do you think Uber is able to provide thousands of riders to thousands of people simultaneously to people all over the world?
> 
> Let me tell you then... since you clearly don't know... it's because people are WORKING these not "real jobs". If you knew anything, you would know that the vast majority of rides are given by people LIKE ME, who do THIS REAL JOB, FULL TIME.
> 
> So guess what, you're a fool and a snob. In fact, you're the worst kind! You're probably the kind of person who votes for those puppets who attack your interests while defending the interests of an elite class who tells you to chase the carrot so you can be "happy"!
> 
> By the way, do you know how many drunks I've taken home for less than the price of a goddamn beer, and kept their idiotic drunk asses off the road? Not a real job... People like you understand nothing. This isn't about what people like you consider "real jobs" and spending our time doing something that you consider "worthwhile". Who made you the decider on what a real job is anyway?
> 
> You understand nothing because this is about fairness, it's about justice, it's about treating people who do WORK with dignity and respect. Being paid 12 cents a minute and 75 cents a mile to operate MY VEHICLE, where I ASSUME ALL RISKS, is disrespect to the core. Not to mention, and since we're talking about propaganda with this other dupe above you, that Uber enticed millions of people to work with promises of "Make $1500/week" BS; and yet, you direct your moral indignation at me?
> 
> Dude, your sh*t stinks just like mine, and based on what comes out of your head, I'm pretty sure it stinks a lot worse. Wake DA F%CK UP. LOOK AROUND YOU. The American people are HURTING. We're not getting our fair share of the wealth, and it's because of IDIOTS LIKE YOU with those kinds of IDIOTIC ARGUMENTS that it continues to go on.
> 
> You are utterly, clueless.


Actually he probably doesn't think the people picking up his trash have "real" jobs.

In actuality the two MOST important typrs of jobs as far as controlling disease, the two things that matter WAY more than all the doctors in the world, are trash/waste removal and clean water delivery.

Take those away for a month and any big city will grind to a halt.

Yet we pay a brain surgeon, who saves (and often only adds some time to) very few lives, comparatively speaking, a huge salary. Because it's a "real" job.


----------



## sellkatsell44

McLovin said:


> It's a common theme in this forum that anyone can drive for Uber, there is no skill. This is false. Driving in general isn't something everyone can do, hence some of our passengers in this category.
> It does take skill to do it right professionally. Keeping a clean driving record and a reasonable rating is not to be taken lightly. A lot of people can't do it.


this is true, because i like to be the shotgun passenger and look at my surrounds, i don't have the attention span it takes to drive properly, but that's why i walk, take public transit, pool w/friends or uber.

however, i don't think this applies to every uber driver as maxista's tone and reasoning is prime example of, you can't reason with crazy nor have a polite and meaningful debate with them.

they'll always resort to insults.


----------



## maxista

sellkatsell44 said:


> this is true, because i like to be the shotgun passenger and look at my surrounds, i don't have the attention span it takes to drive properly, but that's why i walk, take public transit, pool w/friends or uber.
> 
> however, i don't think this applies to every uber driver as maxista's tone and reasoning is prime example of, you can't reason with crazy nor have a polite and meaningful debate with them.
> 
> they'll always resort to insults.


I've written thousands and thousands of words on this thread, and yes, I've "resorted to insults" a couple times, because quite frankly, the comments were so stupid there was no other way to describe them. Go back and read all the things I've said, I've been mostly calm, respectful and most definitely consistent.

If all you can see are a few "insults", you're not paying attention to anything and are very disingenuous.

I'm reaching a point where I think I've said all I can say on this particular thread. What you need to understand, is that you're focusing on a very small part of what the issues are. It's not about the cancellations.


----------



## Body Politic

Hell, this whole thread has been a mammoth exercise in GIGO.


----------



## sellkatsell44

maxista said:


> I've written thousands and thousands of words on this thread, and yes, I've "resorted to insults" a couple times, because quite frankly, the comments were so stupid there was no other way to describe them. Go back and read all the things I've said, I've been mostly calm, respectful and most definitely consistent.
> 
> If all you can see are a few "insults", you're not paying attention to anything and are very disingenuous.
> 
> I'm reaching a point where I think I've said all I can say on this particular thread. What you need to understand, is that you're focusing on a very small part of what the issues are. It's not about the cancellations.


you should never have to resort to insulting someone online to get your point across. i understand heat of the moment, but thats irl.

here, you can stop, pause, reread what you wrote and then go back and edit before hitting post reply.

it's not a race to see who replies the first but who replies with what makes most sense or is compelling enough to change your mind.

so far, you haven't wrote much that is compelling, and if you reread what you wrote, you sound very much like what you've described your opponents (this being anyone who isn't agreeing with you 100%) to be, except with a different POV.

you keep saying it isn't about the cancellation, yet obviously its a subject that has enough disagreement from folks here (majority of whom are drivers like yourself) that doesn't that make you pause and think, "hmmmm...maybe this isn't the best way to go about it?"

and then take this thread towards a more meaningful course, in how to disrupt uber and get the result you want, which is what you're trying to say this is about right? exposing ubers unfair and unjust practices and corporate america.

you act like we don't get it.

i'm trying to say i do, but the way you're GOING about it is all wrong and doesn't make people think you're doing something "courageous" or dare i say rosa park/martin king jr like.

heck, the thread about folks chipping in for a billboard advertisement sounds much better.

if you said you were going to contribute all the cancellation fees you've collected so far, into something like that, you might have a leg to stand on.

but preach all you like, you just sound like another fellow trying to game the system like the folks who pop out babies to get extra money from the government, i mean, at least you work, so you're not so bad.


----------



## howo3579

maxista said:


> _"... why not invest the time to learn a trade so you can get a real job..."_
> 
> I'm going to spend some time on this part of what you wrote. You ready? I warn you brother, this may be hard for you... still interested in "debating" with me? OK then, here we go!
> 
> If everyone accepts what you wrote, and thought that way, our society would utterly _*COLLAPSE*_.
> 
> Oh wait, what? But why?!
> 
> Because millions of people work *for* companies, and they are _*necessary*_. For you see, my brother, both you and me, and everyone else needs them! We all need them!!
> 
> Let me help you out, because you strike me as being very confused about how the world *actually works*. Haven't noticed that these _lowly people_ without "real jobs" stock the grocery isles full of the foods you eat? Do you really not know that they drive the commercial trucks to your neighborhood stores so you can get your bread and cheese? Have you missed the ones that clean the bathrooms and shelves of these stores? There's also a whole bunch manning the registers so you can pay on your way out and purchase your snickers bar!!! Or better yet, there are a whoooole bunch sitting on phones in tiny little cubicle all day and night, waiting for your angry call on tens of thousands of customer service lines so you can complain when your underwear made by people who make a dollar a day accross the globe didn't get to your house on time! Perhaps you haven't even thought of the ones answering emails from angry customers who got their $5 taken from them by a "fraudulent" driver?!
> 
> FOOL!
> 
> If everyone accepts your logic about so called "real jobs", tell us man, who is going to fill these millions of positions? Should everyone just walk away and suddenly find a "real job" as soon as they have a grievance with their masters? Should we ALL get an "education" to become "engineers". You know what, YAY! You're right, let's all take out 50K in government and private bank loans and get a degree in the same kinds of jobs!! Let's see how that works out!!!!
> 
> Who is going to pick the lettuce in your salad bro? Who is going to wait on your picky snotty ass at the restaurant? Who would do these "not real jobs"? Huh?! Do you not see how narrow minded, elitist and stupid your argument is? Am I not giving a ride to someone who needs it? How is this not a "real job"? Just because I'm not sitting behind an office or in a store front it's not a "real job" then?!? Am I not giving someone who wants something a service? You think it's easy dealing with thousands of people in different mental states at all times of the day and night, working weekends and holidays? How do you think Uber is able to provide thousands of riders to thousands of people simultaneously to people all over the world?Is Travis going to do it?
> 
> Let me tell you then... since you clearly don't know... it's because people are WORKING these not "real jobs". If you knew anything, you would know that the vast majority of rides are given by people LIKE ME, who do THIS REAL JOB, FULL TIME.
> 
> So guess what, you're a fool and a snob. In fact, you're the worst kind! You're probably the kind of person who votes for those puppets who attack your interests while defending the interests of an elite class who tells you to chase the carrot so you can be "happy"!
> 
> By the way, do you know how many drunks I've taken home for less than the price of a goddamn beer, and kept their idiotic drunk asses off the road?! Not a real job... People like you understand nothing. This isn't about what people like you consider "real jobs", this isn't about spending our time doing something that you consider "worthwhile". Who made you the decider on what a real job is anyway?
> 
> You understand nothing because this is about fairness, it's about justice, it's about treating people who do WORK with dignity and respect. Being paid 12 cents a minute and 75 cents a mile to operate MY VEHICLE, where I ASSUME ALL RISKS, is not only disrespect, it's exploitation! Not to mention, and since we're talking about propaganda with this other dupe above you, that Uber enticed millions of people to work with promises of "Make $1500/week" BS; and yet, you direct your moral indignation at me? You're going to take me from up high on your imaginary pedestal because I'm taking $5 from a company who wants to use me to get stupid filthy rich?! What's wrong with you people?! Your values are twisted!
> 
> Dude, your stools stink just like mine. WAKE UP!! LOOK AROUND YOU. The American people are HURTING. We're not getting our fair share of the wealth, and it's because of IDIOTS LIKE YOU with those kinds of IDIOTIC ARGUMENTS that it continues to go on.
> 
> You are utterly, clueless, you're mad at the wrong people. You're a fool.


You sound angry. Smoke a joint and chill the ***** out. Why do you think I'm here? I drove Uber too. I also had several min wage jobs in college when everyone was out partying and getting drunk in the weekends. I have respect for anyone in any industry as long as they work hard and are honest. Now to your question, will the world collapse if everyone think like me? No. It's free market. if I really don't have a choice, I'd go flip burgers. Nothing to be ashamed of. Now you can protest and boycott or take advantage of the system Uber created I'm all for it. I hate Uber too about their tactics to get market share while passing all the cost and risks to its drivers. However I don't agree with your mentality to scam the passengers just because you hate your job.

The cold truth is, without people who invent products and start companies, we weren't even be here discussing how Uber bent us over. We wouldn't have car, cell phone, computer, internet that someone else created to enjoy. Then we got bitter and called these guys 1 percenter when they made a ton of money because we buy the products. If you don't want Uber to succeed don't help them by driving. Just quit. Micky D is always hiring and at least pays min wage.


----------



## galileo5

To get my acceptance rate back up after I received a suspension warning letter, I've been accepting all my rides, but with no intent of picking passengers up. 

I accept when I'm about to drop off one passenger as I get a ping to another one nearby. It doesn't give me a chance to log off after dropoff. It's not surging and Uber sucks, so I make the passenger cancel. 

The other instance is when I have my app on in a surging area, but my pings are at normal rates, so I drive away. What sucks about this is that I miss out on surge rides until the passenger realizes I'm not picking them up. And by then, the surge is over. 

Anyway, there have been two instances since yesterday that I received cancel fees even though I had no intention of picking passengers up.


----------



## osii

A lot of Uber Kool Aid drinkers in here. Elect Trump for President, Let's make Maxista King!


----------



## McLovin

osii said:


> A lot of Uber Kool Aid drinkers in here. Elect Trump for President, Let's make Maxista King!


When a thread starts getting these types of comments it's pretty much played out.


----------



## osii

McLovin said:


> When a thread starts getting these types of comments it's pretty much played out.


If you were over 50, you'd get the reference.


----------



## McLovin

osii said:


> If you were over 50, you'd get the reference.


I am and I did.


----------



## ArsenalGunner

maxista said:


> Keep it up brother! I haven't received any warnings at all either!  I've even had a few morons claim they were going to "report me to Uber" for the "worst customer service ever". LOL! I laugh so hard when they say that. Guess what noob, if you were just ready and outside when I got there you would have been picked up.


Hah, I had a dude say he'd report after telling him, I'm only doing 1o miles minimum since it was surging 2.6x. I straight up canceled on him. He was pretty upset, made my day!


----------



## UberedOutInHouston

maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.[/QUOT


----------



## maxista

sellkatsell44 said:


> you should never have to resort to insulting someone online to get your point across. i understand heat of the moment, but thats irl.
> 
> here, you can stop, pause, reread what you wrote and then go back and edit before hitting post reply.
> 
> it's not a race to see who replies the first but who replies with what makes most sense or is compelling enough to change your mind.
> 
> so far, you haven't wrote much that is compelling, and if you reread what you wrote, you sound very much like what you've described your opponents (this being anyone who isn't agreeing with you 100%) to be, except with a different POV.
> 
> you keep saying it isn't about the cancellation, yet obviously its a subject that has enough disagreement from folks here (majority of whom are drivers like yourself) that doesn't that make you pause and think, "hmmmm...maybe this isn't the best way to go about it?"
> 
> and then take this thread towards a more meaningful course, in how to disrupt uber and get the result you want, which is what you're trying to say this is about right? exposing ubers unfair and unjust practices and corporate america.
> 
> you act like we don't get it.
> 
> i'm trying to say i do, but the way you're GOING about it is all wrong and doesn't make people think you're doing something "courageous" or dare i say rosa park/martin king jr like.
> 
> heck, the thread about folks chipping in for a billboard advertisement sounds much better.
> 
> if you said you were going to contribute all the cancellation fees you've collected so far, into something like that, you might have a leg to stand on.
> 
> but preach all you like, you just sound like another fellow trying to game the system like the folks who pop out babies to get extra money from the government, i mean, at least you work, so you're not so bad.


I really don't understand why you think anything you say is going to convince me of anything, you might not have any direct insults, but your tone, your angle, your righteous indignation, is just as insulting. I'm not "as bad"? Jesus man.

Your grammar is poor, your logic is worse. I'm wasting my time replying to you. You don't understand anything.


----------



## maxista

ArsenalGunner said:


> Hah, I had a dude say he'd report after telling him, I'm only doing 1o miles minimum since it was surging 2.6x. I straight up canceled on him. He was pretty upset, made my day!


Sick! Now that's gutsy!


----------



## maxista

osii said:


> A lot of Uber Kool Aid drinkers in here. Elect Trump for President, Let's make Maxista King!


Oh boy, you might not think so highly of me after I tell you what I think of Mr. Trump unless I'm missing something. But yea, this thread has run it's course, everything's been said.


----------



## maxista

galileo5 said:


> To get my acceptance rate back up after I received a suspension warning letter, I've been accepting all my rides, but with no intent of picking passengers up.
> 
> I accept when I'm about to drop off one passenger as I get a ping to another one nearby. It doesn't give me a chance to log off after dropoff. It's not surging and Uber sucks, so I make the passenger cancel.
> 
> The other instance is when I have my app on in a surging area, but my pings are at normal rates, so I drive away. What sucks about this is that I miss out on surge rides until the passenger realizes I'm not picking them up. And by then, the surge is over.
> 
> Anyway, there have been two instances since yesterday that I received cancel fees even though I had no intention of picking passengers up.


Yes, I have thought of what you describe here, which is that when you get another ping while still on a ride, there's no way to log off or deny the ride unless you cancel after having accepted, which will affect your acceptance rate. Theoretically, if it stays busy where you're dropping off all the time, you could NEVER stop getting pinged, and would have to cancel after accepting. It's a flawed design, there needs to be a way to toggle a setting somewhere that doesn't force you to accept while still on a ride.


----------



## maxista

howo3579 said:


> You sound angry. Smoke a joint and chill the ***** out. Why do you think I'm here? I drove Uber too. I also had several min wage jobs in college when everyone was out partying and getting drunk in the weekends. I have respect for anyone in any industry as long as they work hard and are honest. Now to your question, will the world collapse if everyone think like me? No. It's free market. if I really don't have a choice, I'd go flip burgers. Nothing to be ashamed of. Now you can protest and boycott or take advantage of the system Uber created I'm all for it. I hate Uber too about their tactics to get market share while passing all the cost and risks to its drivers. However I don't agree with your mentality to scam the passengers just because you hate your job.
> 
> The cold truth is, without people who invent products and start companies, we weren't even be here discussing how Uber bent us over. We wouldn't have car, cell phone, computer, internet that someone else created to enjoy. Then we got bitter and called these guys 1 percenter when they made a ton of money because we buy the products. If you don't want Uber to succeed don't help them by driving. Just quit. Micky D is always hiring and at least pays min wage.


I don't hate my job. I love my job.

No, the truth is that these "inventors" are useless with their inventions unless people use them, make them and buy them. It's a symbiotic relationship. There's no greater merit in doing the "inventing". We all need each other.

The fact that we call them the 1% has nothing to do with our emotions, they're called that because that's what they are... you need to go back and read some history. Study our political and social history in the US. The middle class was earning a much greater share of the riches a few decades ago. There's been a deliberate downward trend over the last 4 decades, and it's your kind of mindset that's continuing it.

You have no idea who I am, what I've done, what I'm capable of. If I wanted to do another job I could. I enjoy what I do, I work for 3 contractors, not just Uber. Your comments are ignorant. Your narrative is rubbish. You have no clue what you're saying man.


----------



## galileo5

howo3579 said:


> I don't agree with your mentality to scam the passengers just because you hate your job.


Is it okay to scam the drivers b/c Travis loves his job?


----------



## Greguzzi

maxista said:


> Oh boy, you might not think so highly of me after I tell you what I think of Mr. Trump unless I'm missing something. But yea, this thread has run it's course, everything's been said.


Based on your fundamentalist fervor on this issue (huge chip on shoulder, massive sense of entitlement, total perseveration on class issues, unapologetic situational ethics, etc.), I would guess you to be a Bern-out. Are you making Uber feel the Bern?


----------



## howo3579

maxista said:


> I don't hate my job. I love my job.
> 
> No, the truth is that these "inventors" are useless with their inventions unless people use them, make them and buy them. It's a symbiotic relationship. There's no greater merit in doing the "inventing". We all need each other.
> 
> The fact that we call them the 1% has nothing to do with our emotions, they're called that because that's what they are... you need to go back and read some history. Study our political and social history in the US. The middle class was earning a much greater share of the riches a few decades ago. There's been a deliberate downward trend over the last 4 decades, and it's your kind of mindset that's continuing it.
> 
> You have no idea who I am, what I've done, what I'm capable of. If I wanted to do another job I could. I enjoy what I do, I work for 3 contractors, not just Uber. Your comments are ignorant. Your narrative is rubbish. You have no clue what you're saying man.


No I don't know you and what you've done. Nothing in my posts suggests I know who you are. But it doesn't sound like you enjoy driving for Uber from the pissy mood you presented on this thread. You've said it. those inventions will be useless unless people use it. You want to fight Uber? Stop providing the product to the customers. Simple as that.


----------



## howo3579

Greguzzi said:


> Based on your fundamentalist fervor on this issue (huge chip on shoulder, massive sense of entitlement, total perseveration on class issues, unapologetic situational ethics, etc.), I would guess you to be a Bern-out. Are you making Uber feel the Bern?


Hey don't drag Bernie into this. But sometimes it's people like Maxita blaming everyone else but themselves makes want to vote for one of those republican nut jobs.


----------



## Greguzzi

howo3579 said:


> Hey don't drag Bernie into this. But sometimes it's people like Maxita blaming everyone else but themselves makes want to vote for one of those republican nut jobs.












Bernie is not a nut job?


----------



## Aimless

howo3579 said:


> ...You want to fight Uber? Stop providing the product to the customers. Simple as that.


No. I think quitting is the exact opposite of what to do in order to fight Uber. If you no longer want to be a rideshare driver, if you've decided this is just not for you, then yes, quit.

But if you want to keep driving, you just want fair compensation for your time, efforts and use of your car, you'll never get it by simply walking away.

You have to stick up for yourself, make your voice heard. The question, of course, is how.

Maxista is suggesting to do it by intentionally providing poor service. Obviously that makes a lot of people uncomfortable and I get that. (Although I draw the line at comparing his tactics to armed robbery... it's not). It's just bad service. On purpose.

He's definitely not alone in this and it's a reaction to the dismal treatment Uber has shown us. Drivers all over are trying to make themselves heard in all sorts of ways. Protests and strikes, the billboard idea in LA (great idea btw). There's the lawsuit of course, but that will take years to unfold. Even having a reasonable conversation with your PAX about Uber can be effective.

In my experience a lot of riders are curious and more than willing to engage. I tell them my thoughts straight up, but never in an angry tone.

Think about this... the vast majority of Uber customers will never meet, never interact with an actual Uber employee.

Uber talks to their customers the same way they talk to us. Through canned Facebook posts, scripted responses and mass marketing.

On the other hand, drivers are face to face with Uber customers everyday. That's an opportunity. Word of mouth. The oldest form of marketing in the world. And still the most effective. Point is ... you can't change anything by quitting.


----------



## maxista

howo3579 said:


> No I don't know you and what you've done. Nothing in my posts suggests I know who you are. But it doesn't sound like you enjoy driving for Uber from the pissy mood you presented on this thread. You've said it. those inventions will be useless unless people use it. You want to fight Uber? Stop providing the product to the customers. Simple as that.


You're not going to convince me. Your arguments are weak. I'll stop driving for Uber when it suits my best interest. This weekend in Phoenix the hourly guarantees are good enough for me not to turn on Uber for the majority of the night. I still may turn it on in case of high surge though.


----------



## maxista

Aimless said:


> No. I think quitting is the exact opposite of what to do in order to fight Uber. If you no longer want to be a rideshare driver, if you've decided this is just not for you, then yes, quit.
> 
> But if you want to keep driving, you just want fair compensation for your time, efforts and use of your car, you'll never get it by simply walking away.
> 
> You have to stick up for yourself, make your voice heard. The question, of course, is how.
> 
> Maxista is suggesting to do it by intentionally providing poor service. Obviously that makes a lot of people uncomfortable and I get that. (Although I draw the line at comparing his tactics to armed robbery... it's not). It's just bad service. On purpose.
> 
> He's definitely not alone in this and it's a reaction to the dismal treatment Uber has shown us. Drivers all over are trying to make themselves heard in all sorts of ways. Protests and strikes, the billboard idea in LA (great idea btw). There's the lawsuit of course, but that will take years to unfold. Even having a reasonable conversation with your PAX about Uber can be effective.
> 
> In my experience a lot of riders are curious and more than willing to engage. I tell them my thoughts straight up, but never in an angry tone.
> 
> Think about this... the vast majority of Uber customers will never meet, never interact with an actual Uber employee.
> 
> Uber talks to their customers the same way they talk to us. Through canned Facebook posts, scripted responses and mass marketing.
> 
> On the other hand, drivers are face to face with Uber customers everyday. That's an opportunity. Word of mouth. The oldest form of marketing in the world. And still the most effective. Point is ... you can't change anything by quitting.


A lot of people on this thread have attempted to explain things like this, some of these people still won't understand, but you did a fantastic job there. Thanks!


----------



## maxista

Greguzzi said:


> Based on your fundamentalist fervor on this issue (huge chip on shoulder, massive sense of entitlement, total perseveration on class issues, unapologetic situational ethics, etc.), I would guess you to be a Bern-out. Are you making Uber feel the Bern?


Sense of entitlement? For what? Being treated with fairness, decency and humanity? 
Total "perseveration"? What's that?

Yes, I feel the Bern. I've stated it plainly all over this forum. Are you Dumper? I mean Trumper?


----------



## Greguzzi

maxista said:


> Sense of entitlement? For what? Being treated with fairness, decency and humanity?
> Total "perseveration"? What's that?
> 
> Yes, I feel the Bern. I've stated it plainly all over this forum. Are you Dumper? I mean Trumper?


All of those things I described drip from your posts.

I am not a fan of Trump. I am a constitutional civil libertarian. I believe in freedom-no "buts" required. And I believe the Constitution says what it says and that it says nothing more. All the rights in the Bill of Rights are negative rights, in that they limit government but do not limit the people. If you don't like what's in the Constitution, an amendment process is provided.

In my perfect whirled, you would read complimentary stories in an unbiased press about a gay married couple defending their legal pot plants with legal machine-guns.

Who will I vote for? The one that I think is least likely to take away my Constitutional rights. The Democrats want to act like fascists and take away my 2nd Amendment rights. They also routinely try to restrict the free-speech rights of their political opponents by using government power (IRS, BATFE, DOJ, etc.) to suppress their voices. That makes it impossible for me to vote for Democrat candidates. If the Republican nominee is someone that I think will follow the Constitution, he will get my vote. If not, I'll vote Libertarian.


----------



## maxista

Greguzzi said:


> All of those things I described drip from your posts.
> 
> I am not a fan of Trump. I am a constitutional civil libertarian. I believe in freedom-no "buts" required. And I believe the Constitution says what it says and that it says nothing more. All the rights in the Bill of Rights are negative rights, in that they limit government but do not limit the people. If you don't like what's in the Constitution, an amendment process is provided.
> 
> In my perfect whirled, you would read complimentary stories in an unbiased press about a gay married couple defending their legal pot plants with legal machine-guns.
> 
> Who will I vote for? The one that I think is least likely to take away my Constitutional rights. The Democrats want to act like fascists and take away my 2nd Amendment rights. They also routinely try to restrict the free-speech rights of their political opponents by using government power (IRS, BATFE, DOJ, etc.) to suppress their voices. That makes it impossible for me to vote for Democrat candidates. If the Republican nominee is someone that I think will follow the Constitution, he will get my vote. If not, I'll vote Libertarian.


I've said this before and I'll it say to you, there's no one on this earth more confused than a libertarian. You people think we live in a vaccum, you imagine that society is composed of independent parts that aren't interdependent on each other, you give no credit to the huge forces and systems at play, you do not understand how economies work. Your views would work for cabin people living on virgin land, but that doesn't exist. We depend on sewers, roads, plumbing, electrical systems, and so many other services that you, and your fellow libertarians, in their almost capricious childlike imaginary selfhood, can't even acknowledge.

Libertarianism doesn't work, it's nonsense, in fact, you know who one of the wealthiest most powerful self-described libertarians is? Yeah, Travis. Let that sink in Travis.


----------



## Greguzzi

maxista said:


> I've said this before and I'll it say to you, there's no one on this earth more confused than a libertarian. You people think we live in a vaccum, you imagine that society is composed of independent parts that aren't interdependent on each other, you give no credit to the huge forces and systems at play, you do not understand how economies work. Your views would work for cabin people living on virgin land, but that doesn't exist. We depend on sewers, roads, plumbing, electrical systems, and so many other services that you, and your fellow libertarians, in their almost capricious childlike imaginary selfhood, can't even acknowledge.
> 
> Libertarianism doesn't work, it's nonsense, in fact, you know who one of the wealthiest most powerful self-described libertarians is? Yeah, Travis. Let that sink in Travis.


You don't read so well. I'm not a big-L libertarian. I am a constitutional civil libertarian. I don't live in a vacuum. I don't dislike roads and sewers, so stop that ******ed reductio ad absurdum tactic. I want to live under rule of law that protects my rights. I believe we need a government, but I also believe that the bigger the government grows, the smaller the citizen shrinks. Size of government must therefore be limited. I know that when socialists read that, they hear, "These evil people want no government at all!" It's you socialists who live in an unobtainable utopia that everyone but you pays for.

Travis is not really a Libertarian. He can think whatever he wants to think, but what he is is a corporatist (fascist). He believes in flouting laws and in buying influence of politicians to gain an advantage on his competition, rather than competing with them on an open and level playing field. That's a very different thing from what a Libertarian wants. Let that sink in. Travis believes in a form of socialism, which is, of course what fascism is.


----------



## howo3579

Greguzzi said:


> All of those things I described drip from your posts.
> 
> I am not a fan of Trump. I am a constitutional civil libertarian. I believe in freedom-no "buts" required. And I believe the Constitution says what it says and that it says nothing more. All the rights in the Bill of Rights are negative rights, in that they limit government but do not limit the people. If you don't like what's in the Constitution, an amendment process is provided.
> 
> In my perfect whirled, you would read complimentary stories in an unbiased press about a gay married couple defending their legal pot plants with legal machine-guns.
> 
> Who will I vote for? The one that I think is least likely to take away my Constitutional rights. The Democrats want to act like fascists and take away my 2nd Amendment rights. They also routinely try to restrict the free-speech rights of their political opponents by using government power (IRS, BATFE, DOJ, etc.) to suppress their voices. That makes it impossible for me to vote for Democrat candidates. If the Republican nominee is someone that I think will follow the Constitution, he will get my vote. If not, I'll vote Libertarian.


dude I like your thinking man. I'm also pro gun, gay, pot. I really liked Ron Paul and his integrity. He predicted economy down fall before both 2001 and 2008 when everything seemed all rosy and nice. He was also a strong opponent of war in Iraq and we all saw how the war turned out. However I'd never vote him as a president. He's perfect as a senator but his idea is only perfect in an ideal world. In real world you can't only have capitalism with no regulation. You can't build a first world country without taking care of its less privileged people. That being said I also like Bernie. I think he's one of few politicians out there not corrupted. But again he's too extreme to the left as it's close to socialism where entitled brats think they should be handed everything. I despise all the other candidates from both repuke or democrap. That's probably why the last time I voted was 14 years ago lol.


----------



## howo3579

Aimless said:


> No. I think quitting is the exact opposite of what to do in order to fight Uber. If you no longer want to be a rideshare driver, if you've decided this is just not for you, then yes, quit.
> 
> But if you want to keep driving, you just want fair compensation for your time, efforts and use of your car, you'll never get it by simply walking away.
> 
> You have to stick up for yourself, make your voice heard. The question, of course, is how.
> 
> Maxista is suggesting to do it by intentionally providing poor service. Obviously that makes a lot of people uncomfortable and I get that. (Although I draw the line at comparing his tactics to armed robbery... it's not). It's just bad service. On purpose.
> 
> He's definitely not alone in this and it's a reaction to the dismal treatment Uber has shown us. Drivers all over are trying to make themselves heard in all sorts of ways. Protests and strikes, the billboard idea in LA (great idea btw). There's the lawsuit of course, but that will take years to unfold. Even having a reasonable conversation with your PAX about Uber can be effective.
> 
> In my experience a lot of riders are curious and more than willing to engage. I tell them my thoughts straight up, but never in an angry tone.
> 
> Think about this... the vast majority of Uber customers will never meet, never interact with an actual Uber employee.
> 
> Uber talks to their customers the same way they talk to us. Through canned Facebook posts, scripted responses and mass marketing.
> 
> On the other hand, drivers are face to face with Uber customers everyday. That's an opportunity. Word of mouth. The oldest form of marketing in the world. And still the most effective. Point is ... you can't change anything by quitting.


Quitting is exactly what Uber don't want you to do and it's the perfect way to stick it to Uber. If you still want to drive for Uber that's fine. Protest, raise awareness, talking to pax, provide bad service intentionally, I support all those things. In my opinion, I don't care if your car stinks, shitty and loud music, wear only an underwear, as long as you get pax from A to B, you are a 5 star partner. But providing a bad service is completely different than providing no service at all while taking pax' money.


----------



## howo3579

maxista said:


> You're not going to convince me. Your arguments are weak. I'll stop driving for Uber when it suits my best interest. This weekend in Phoenix the hourly guarantees are good enough for me not to turn on Uber for the majority of the night. I still may turn it on in case of high surge though.


You don't have to stop driving. If you want to keep getting bent over by Uber be my guest. I'm just telling it what it is. You're scamming the customers. You think Uber don't like surge or cancellation fee? Those are free money for them while drivers have to spend the time and make the effort to play the game.


----------



## chi1cabby

ivanp said:


> Do you think there are *any* executives at Uber who are standing up for the best interest of the driver?


*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/698234921941344256**







*


----------



## Greguzzi

howo3579 said:


> dude I like your thinking man. I'm also pro gun, gay, pot. I really liked Ron Paul and his integrity. He predicted economy down fall before both 2001 and 2008 when everything seemed all rosy and nice. He was also a strong opponent of war in Iraq and we all saw how the war turned out. However I'd never vote him as a president. He's perfect as a senator but his idea is only perfect in an ideal world. In real world you can't only have capitalism with no regulation. You can't build a first world country without taking care of its less privileged people. That being said I also like Bernie. I think he's one of few politicians out there not corrupted. But again he's too extreme to the left as it's close to socialism where entitled brats think they should be handed everything. I despise all the other candidates from both repuke or democrap. That's probably why the last time I voted was 14 years ago lol.


Even Adam Smith recognized that capitalism can only work without a guiding hand when implemented by a moral people. Rand knows that, and i know that; America and the world are full of immoral people. Some guidance from government is needed.

But there is a great gulf between "some guidance" and a government so onerously large that it demands a $400 permit for every kid who shovels snow or shuts down another kid's lemonade stand because it doesn't have a permit from the health department.

I think both Rand and I would oppose the over-regulation that is rampant in America today. We're not saying anything more than that. There just is too much regulation that is wrongly aimed and ineptly applied.

We built this country into a first-world country while taking care of the less fortunate. But now, nearly 50 percent of Americans are on the dole. If you think that will lead to us remaining a first-world country for long, you are mistaken.

I would probably not vote, as you do, were it not for the fascistic way the Dems go after my rights under the First and Second Amendments. I feel compelled to stop them. If that means voting for a less-than-perfect Republican, that's just what I have to do, or I could not sleep at night knowing that so many rights will be taken from so many during my watch, when I could have done my best to stop them. And Bernie is in the forefront of this Democrat move toward fascism. I just have to shake my head at anyone who votes for him.


----------



## chi1cabby

maxista said:


> You don't get cancellation fees?!


*Uber has rescinded Cancellation Fee in these Markets*


----------



## Greguzzi

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber has rescinded Cancellation Fee in these Markets*


When they rescind it in my market, I will feel no obligation to wait even 1 minute. If the passenger's toes aren''t on the curb when I get there, I'll cancel and move on.


----------



## chi1cabby

RockinEZ said:


> Uber can, and has prosecuted drivers for fraud.


Oh really?
Please link me to any case or a news article where Uber has sued a Driver.
(FYI, Uber is not the State. So it cannot "Prosecute" a Driver. Uber can only "Sue" a Driver, or take him/her to arbitration.)


RockinEZ said:


> Uber has more lawyers than programmers on the payroll.


Yeah those lawyers are on Uber's payroll to defend against lawsuits.

*Uber is facing a staggering number of lawsuits*


----------



## maxista

Greguzzi said:


> You don't read so well. I'm not a big-L libertarian. I am a constitutional civil libertarian. I don't live in a vacuum. I don't dislike roads and sewers, so stop that ******ed reductio ad absurdum tactic. I want to live under rule of law that protects my rights. I believe we need a government, but I also believe that the bigger the government grows, the smaller the citizen shrinks. Size of government must therefore be limited. I know that when socialists read that, they hear, "These evil people want no government at all!" It's you socialists who live in an unobtainable utopia that everyone but you pays for.
> 
> Travis is not really a Libertarian. He can think whatever he wants to think, but what he is is a corporatist (fascist). He believes in flouting laws and in buying influence of politicians to gain an advantage on his competition, rather than competing with them on an open and level playing field. That's a very different thing from what a Libertarian wants. Let that sink in. Travis believes in a form of socialism, which is, of course what fascism is.


Look around the world, every nation in the West has greater social safety nets than the US. Does that make them utopias? You want me to stop "reductio ad absurdum tactics", as you call it, and yet you want to paint every socialist policy as fascist and utopian? So far you've said socialism is fascism, which isn't true, and right there I'd stop you and have you do some research.

Start here: 
http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm


----------



## Greguzzi

You mean like the Soviet Union, Cambodia, Vietnam, Venezuela, Albania, Romania, Communist China, et al? How did that socialism work out for them?

Or do you mean the Scandinavian countries? Some, yes, show some successes. Most in Yurp are faring poorly. And all of the successful ones have things the US does not have.

Are you going to pretend you don't know what these things are, or shall I list them for you?

Rense= LOL.

Mussolini was an infamous socialist before he adapted it into his theory of "fascism." He used as his symbol a bundle of sticks, symbolizing the socialist ideal that the individual does not matter, only the state. Also, see the founding documents of the National Socialist Worker's Party, the guys we all know as the Nazis.

Here it is, for your convenience. Tell me most of these are not echoes of Bernie's bolshevik rantings (numbers below are ****ed up by autoformating:

*The 25-point Program of the NSDAP[edit]*


We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.
All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently we demand:
Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contractswith the State, county or municipality.
We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.


----------



## maxista

Greguzzi said:


> Even Adam Smith recognized that capitalism can only work without a guiding hand when implemented by a moral people. Rand knows that, and i know that; America and the world are full of immoral people. Some guidance from government is needed.
> 
> But there is a great gulf between "some guidance" and a government so onerously large that it demands a $400 permit for every kid who shovels snow or shuts down another kid's lemonade stand because it doesn't have a permit from the health department.
> 
> I think both Rand and I would oppose the over-regulation that is rampant in America today. We're not saying anything more than that. There just is too much regulation that is wrongly aimed and ineptly applied.
> 
> We built this country into a first-world country while taking care of the less fortunate. But now, nearly 50 percent of Americans are on the dole. If you think that will lead to us remaining a first-world country for long, you are mistaken.
> 
> I would probably not vote, as you do, were it not for the fascistic way the Dems go after my rights under the First and Second Amendments. I feel compelled to stop them. If that means voting for a less-than-perfect Republican, that's just what I have to do, or I could not sleep at night knowing that so many rights will be taken from so many during my watch, when I could have done my best to stop them. And Bernie is in the forefront of this Democrat move toward fascism. I just have to shake my head at anyone who votes for him.


You start quoting Adam Smith with Ayn Rand and I'm just over here shaking my head. It's just sad that you could actually think that. You people have no idea what you're saying, you're confusing everything. Ayn Rand ended up on social security btw. Yea...

You guys read a few books by Rand and a couple lines from Smith and now you know how to solve the world's problems and identify its villains. What a joke.

Bernie and socialism are fascist now? Seriously, that's just complete nonsense. You have no idea what Fascism is. So Medicare and social security are fascist? What garbage. You people are so ignorant. This is what defines fascism.
http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm


----------



## maxista

Greguzzi said:


> You mean like the Soviet Union, Cambodia, Vietnam, Venezuela, Albania, Romania, Communist China, et al? How did that socialism work out for them?
> 
> Or do you mean the Scandinavian countries? Some, yes, show some successes. Most are on faring poorly. And all of them have things the US does not have.
> 
> Are you going to pretend you don't know what these things are, or shall I list them for you?
> 
> Rense= LOL.
> 
> Mussolini was an infamous socialist before he adapted it into his theory of "fascism." He used as his symbol a bundle of sticks, symbolizing the socialist ideal that the individual does not matter, only the state. Also, see the founding documents of the National Socialist Worker's Party, the guys we all know as the Nazis.
> 
> Here it is, for your convenience. Tell me most of these are not echoes of Bernie's bolshevik rantings (numbers below are ****ed up by autoformating:
> 
> *The 25-point Program of the NSDAP[edit]*
> 
> 
> We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
> Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.
> All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
> The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently we demand:
> Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
> In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
> We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
> We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
> We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
> We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contractswith the State, county or municipality.
> We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
> We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
> We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
> The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
> The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.


Rense isn't the source, it's just republishing the paper. Omg. You know who else published that paper? 
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4113.htm
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2875288
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
http://www.deliberation.info/the-14-characteristics-fascism/

Bernie isn't for half of these. You people are paranoid maniacs with no ability to read and comprehend. You want me to read your article and you want to just blow off everything I post? What are we even doing here? This is a giant waste of time. I'm done here. FYI, Fascism is associated with the RIGHT not with the LEFT. Jesus Christ.


----------



## maxista

Greguzzi said:


> You mean like the Soviet Union, Cambodia, Vietnam, Venezuela, Albania, Romania, Communist China, et al? How did that socialism work out for them?
> 
> Or do you mean the Scandinavian countries? Some, yes, show some successes. Most in Yurp are faring poorly. And all of the successful ones have things the US does not have.
> 
> Are you going to pretend you don't know what these things are, or shall I list them for you?
> 
> Rense= LOL.
> 
> Mussolini was an infamous socialist before he adapted it into his theory of "fascism." He used as his symbol a bundle of sticks, symbolizing the socialist ideal that the individual does not matter, only the state. Also, see the founding documents of the National Socialist Worker's Party, the guys we all know as the Nazis.
> 
> Here it is, for your convenience. Tell me most of these are not echoes of Bernie's bolshevik rantings (numbers below are ****ed up by autoformating:
> 
> *The 25-point Program of the NSDAP[edit]*
> 
> 
> We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
> Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.
> All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
> The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently we demand:
> Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
> In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
> We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
> We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
> We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
> We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contractswith the State, county or municipality.
> We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
> We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
> We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
> The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
> The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.


Good god. This thread is done. There's another one here where these kinds of discussions are more appropriate: 
https://uberpeople.net/threads/which-candidate-is-most-likely-to-stop-obscenely-low-rates.61320/


----------



## Greguzzi

maxista said:


> You start quoting Adam Smith with Ayn Rand and I'm just over shaking my head. It's just sad that you could actually think that. You people have no idea what you're saying, you're confusing everything. You read a few books by Rand and a couple lines from Smith and now you know how to solve the world's problems and identify it's villains.
> 
> Bernie and socialism are fascist now? Seriously, that's just complete nonsense. You have no idea what Fascism is. So Medicare and social security are fascist? What garbage. You people are so ignorant. Read more. This is what defines fascism.
> http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm


I have never read a book by Ayn Rand, so JIJO, dude. Friends I trust have read her work and don't speak too highly of it, so I'm not gonna bother. Adam Smith I have read. Have you? If not, you are talking out of your anus. Anyone who could equate the two is a ******, in any case. One is the foundational document of capitalism. The other is one that is taken seriously by almost no one.

I have read Marx, too. And I have also read Hitler. How about you? LOL.

Anyone who thinks they have the right to tell another person how they should live is acting like a fascist. The (kind) technical term for that is "authoritarian." The (unkind) term for that is "totalitarian." Bernie is an authoritarian bordering on totalitarian, with fascistic tendencies. He thinks he knows better how I should live my life than I do, and he would use government to force his will on me. What do you call a person who would do that? I know. You call it "normal," because you are just like him.

Fascism is a minor modification from socialism and was in fact invented by an infamous socialist agitator who was very much like Bernie in rhetoric. Look it up for yourself. Fascism is little more than socialism filtered through the gas mask Mussolini wore in WWI, same as naziism is little more than socialism filtered through the gas mask Hitler wore in WWI. And do not pretend that the "nationalism" part distinguishes German nazism and Italian fascism meaningfully from the clearly nationalistic socialism and communism practiced in the Soviet Union, Vietnam, China, Cambodia, et al.

I never said Medicare and SS were fascist. You made that up, in your hyperbolic way because you have finally met someone who isn't going to just roll over and accept your bolshevik.

Bern on, though!

But realize that if your guy wins, the US is gonna balkanize before long. I could tell you why, but you wouldn't listen, so what's the use?

If you hate America, Bernie is your man . . .


----------



## Greguzzi

maxista said:


> Rense isn't the source, it's just republishing the paper. Omg. You know who else published that paper?
> http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4113.htm
> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2875288
> http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
> http://www.deliberation.info/the-14-characteristics-fascism/
> 
> Bernie isn't for half of these. You people are paranoid maniacs with no ability to read and comprehend. You want me to read your article and you want to just blow off everything I post? What are we even doing here? This is a giant waste of time. I'm done here. FYI, Fascism is associated with the RIGHT not with the LEFT. Jesus Christ.


LOL. It's a shit article. Complete bolshevik, written by a leftist partisan who's in denial of the roots of fascism. Democratic Underground? LOL. What'll be next? HuffPo? MSDNC?

Bernie is for so many things Hitler was for and much that Mussolini was for. If that hurts your feelz, maybe Bernie shouldn't be your guy?


----------



## Greguzzi

maxista said:


> Good god. This thread is done. There's another one here where these kinds of discussions are more appropriate:
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/which-candidate-is-most-likely-to-stop-obscenely-low-rates.61320/


LOL. Feelz hurt again?


----------



## maxista

Greguzzi said:


> I have never read a book by Ayn Rand, so JIJO, dude. Friends I trust have read her work and don't speak too highly of it, so I'm not gonna bother. Adam Smith I have read. Have you? If not, you are talking out of your anus. Anyone who could equate the two is a ******, in any case. One is the foundational document of capitalism. The other is one that is taken seriously by almost no one.
> 
> I have read Marx, too. And I have also read Hitler. How about you? LOL.
> 
> Anyone who thinks they have the right to tell another person how they should live is acting like a fascist. The (kind) technical term for that is "authoritarian." The (unkind) term for that is "totalitarian." Bernie is an authoritarian bordering on totalitarian, with fascistic tendencies. He thinks he knows better how I should live my life than I do, and he would use government to force his will on me. What do you call a person who would do that? I know. You call it "normal," because you are just like him.
> 
> Fascism is a minor modification from socialism and was in fact invented by an infamous socialist agitator who was very much like Bernie in rhetoric. Look it up for yourself. Fascism is little more than socialism filtered through the gas mask Mussolini wore in WWI, same as naziism is little more than socialism filtered through the gas mask Hitler wore in WWI. And do not pretend that the "nationalism" part distinguishes German nazism and Italian fascism meaningfully from the clearly nationalistic socialism and communism practiced in the Soviet Union, Vietnam, China, Cambodia, et al.
> 
> I never said Medicare and SS were fascist. You made that up, in your hyperbolic way because you have finally met someone who isn't going to just roll over and accept your bolshevik.
> 
> Bern on, though!
> 
> But realize that if your guy wins, the US is gonna balkanize before long. I could tell you why, but you wouldn't listen, so what's the use?
> 
> If you hate America, Bernie is your man . . .


You think you're only one who thinks like this? I've met dozens of people who think like you, and the end result of conversing is mutual dislike and mocking. You mock me, I mock you, it goes nowhere. I studied Philosophy and International Relations in college, I've studied and read many topics and continue to read and learn. I completely disagree with your assessment of socialism and fascism and your smart ass aggressive mocking remarks are a waste of our time. By the way, this is not the right thread for this "debate" if you can call it that. I'm done here.


----------



## sellkatsell44

maxista said:


> I really don't understand why you think anything you say is going to convince me of anything, you might not have any direct insults, but your tone, your angle, your righteous indignation, is just as insulting. I'm not "as bad"? Jesus man.
> 
> Your grammar is poor, your logic is worse. I'm wasting my time replying to you. You don't understand anything.


Did I sound like I was trying to "convince" you? I said you're not convincing me!

When it comes to how something is written on the Internet, the "tone" or "righteous" indignation--it's based on how the reader reads it. I usually find how folks do (read written text), is a reflection of how they feel about themselves.

"Jesus man"


----------



## Greguzzi

I don't care if you have met others who think like I do, and I don't care if you disagree with me or them. None of that changes reality.

You obviously care that I disagree with you, though. That's the fascist tendency inherent in the fake brand of liberalism you were taught in your schools. You wouldn't know what personal liberty was if it bit you in the ass because you are just following your fine indoctrination, as you were intended to do. And that's why the professorial Bernie—who has never really drawn a meaningful paycheck outside of the government feeding trough—appeals to you. And it's also the source of the rage and powerlessness and urge to lash back that you feel toward Travis and Uber. I have been where you are now. I have. But that was 30 years ago. I woke up.

I see one of two fates for you:

1) Someday—but only if you are cursed—you will learn wisdom, and that almost everything you were taught in college was just another layer in a lasagne of lies. And then you will have to do something about that. But that takes courage that I'm not sure you have.

2) Or, you will just be a fat, dumb, and angry socialist all your life, lashing out at the bogeymen you have been conditioned to fear such as "the corporations" and "the Koch brothers" and "the jews" who you imagine are oppressing your privileged ass. A Bernie, or a Mussolini, in other words. 

In your case, I would bet on the latter, though you do display some debatable quantity of native intelligence, so . . .


----------



## maxista

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber has rescinded Cancellation Fee in these Markets*


That's insane. I don't even know what to say about that. If that happened here, I would insta call the PAX, and if I can't get them on the line right away I'd just cancel.


----------



## maxista

Greguzzi said:


> I don't care if you have met others who think like I do, and I don't care if you disagree with me or them. None of that changes reality.
> 
> You obviously care that I disagree with you, though. That's the fascist tendency inherent in the fake brand of liberalism you were taught in your schools. You wouldn't know what personal liberty was if it bit you in the ass because you are just following your fine indoctrination, as you were intended to do. And that's why the professorial Bernie-who has never really drawn a meaningful paycheck outside of the government feeding trough-appeals to you. And it's also the source of the rage and powerlessness and urge to lash back that you feel toward Travis and Uber. I have been where you are now. I have. But that was 30 years ago. I woke up.
> 
> I see one of two fates for you:
> 
> 1) Someday-but only if you are cursed-you will learn wisdom, and that almost everything you were taught in college was just another layer in a lasagne of lies. And then you will have to do something about that. But that takes courage that I'm not sure you have.
> 
> 2) Or, you will just be a fat, dumb, and angry socialist all your life, lashing out at the bogeymen you have been conditioned to fear such as "the corporations" and "the Koch brothers" and "the jews" who you imagine are oppressing your privileged ass. A Bernie, or a Mussolini, in other words.
> 
> In your case, I would bet on the latter, though you do display some debatable quantity of native intelligence, so . . .


You're a sad, bitter, morbid, pompous old man. Your reply is crazy. Indoctrination... you have no idea what you're saying. Keep on rambling to yourself, no one's listening.


----------



## galileo5

Greguzzi said:


> You mean like the Soviet Union, Cambodia, Vietnam, Venezuela, Albania, Romania, Communist China, et al? How did that socialism work out for them?
> 
> Or do you mean the Scandinavian countries? Some, yes, show some successes. Most in Yurp are faring poorly. And all of the successful ones have things the US does not have.
> 
> Are you going to pretend you don't know what these things are, or shall I list them for you?
> 
> Rense= LOL.
> 
> Mussolini was an infamous socialist before he adapted it into his theory of "fascism." He used as his symbol a bundle of sticks, symbolizing the socialist ideal that the individual does not matter, only the state. Also, see the founding documents of the National Socialist Worker's Party, the guys we all know as the Nazis.
> 
> Here it is, for your convenience. Tell me most of these are not echoes of Bernie's bolshevik rantings (numbers below are ****ed up by autoformating:
> 
> *The 25-point Program of the NSDAP[edit]*
> 
> 
> We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
> Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.
> All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
> The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently we demand:
> Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
> In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
> We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
> We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
> We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
> We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contractswith the State, county or municipality.
> We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
> We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
> We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
> The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
> The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.


FYI, socialism never existed.


----------



## galileo5

Greguzzi said:


> LOL. Feelz hurt again?


You don't know what fascism is. Fascism is a desperate attempt by the ruling class to preserve capitalism so they can remain in power. It's a reaction to a socialist revolt.
Fascism (Hitler) is extreme right. Socialism (Karl Marx) is the left. They are complete opposites of one another.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

The original post has to be a joke.


----------



## howo3579

galileo5 said:


> You don't know what fascism is. Fascism is a desperate attempt by the ruling class to preserve capitalism so they can remain in power. It's a reaction to a socialist revolt.
> Fascism (Hitler) is extreme right. Socialism (Karl Marx) is the left. They are complete opposites of one another.


The def of fascism has been associated with right wing and conservatives. Some parts are similar such as national syndicalism but the meaning why we called it fascism is completely different than what we call Libertarian in America. Fascism is one party system that government has the power to control what people do and think. They brain wash people thinking you are supposed to live and die with the country. Freedom of religion? You don't have a choice, your government tells you what you supposed to believe. Now that sounds a lot like our conservative republican (nationalism, religion(Christianity), etc) but libertarian party is pretty much opposite of that. Italy, Japan, Germany were all guilty of it. But now let's look at Russia, China, Cuba. What do you think the difference is in nature of fascism? None. All of them resulted government power control, nationalism, one party system, dictators. Both capitalism and socialism has nothing to do with fascism. However if Socialism requires government telling how citizens should live their lives, the government can be accused of being a fascist. Right now in our major political parties, I associate traditional republican being the closest to fascism. Democrat is somewhere in between. Libertarian is the furthest thing from fascism.


----------



## maxista

uberdriverfornow said:


> The original post has to be a joke.


No. Not a joke.


----------



## Teri Lynn

UberLou said:


> Experience has nothing to do being crooked. Rationalize it any way you want to you are stealing. I don't agree with that at all. I am not happy with the way Uber has done business but I will not punish riders for what you refer to as a bigger cause.
> 
> Ultimately we are all consumers and I would hate this done to me by other employees from other businesses that are going through the same struggles as we do as drivers.
> 
> To each his own but I pity anyone that follows your advise.


 I agree with you. If the company is not treating you right, take a walk. Don't take it out on the customers. TLC


----------



## sellkatsell44

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber has rescinded Cancellation Fee in these Markets*


If you're mad, blame folks who game the system to "fight" back at uber. Incidentally, he has responded with the below:



maxista said:


> That's insane. I don't even know what to say about that. If that happened here, I would insta call the PAX, and if I can't get them on the line right away I'd just cancel.


----------



## Bruce DeVaux

UberLou said:


> Where does it say in Uber's rules to accept a ride with Lyft after already accepting an Uber and force the Uber rider to cancel the request? That is the definition of Crooked.


i think if uber would stop the rate cuts THEN fewer drivers would try these types of aggressive policies to earn a living--


----------



## Bruce DeVaux

maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


in my area we have no lyft-- there fore we can not use most of ur suggestion-- the haters against u are probably driving because they are bored not bec they r making a living-- maybe some of what u said is walking a thin line-- IF UBER WOULD STOP THE RATE CUTS-- most drivers would not consider doing this-- some of those same HATERS are the ones cutting ahead of other drivers at airports and hot spots-- we have one big hater in my area-- but when i watch him at airport he always parks (in front of drivers already parked) (closer to riders) so he will get the 1st call-- these things are ALL UBER'S FAULT because they refuse to setup geo-fencing and FIFO-- most workers just want honest pay for honest work--


----------



## thomas1955

osii said:


> A lot of Uber Kool Aid drinkers in here. Elect Trump for President, Let's make Maxista King!


NO NO NO. I am to be Emperor for life !


----------



## Guest

How in the word did this discussion get political , hahahaha, Maxista keep it up and let us know if anything changes.


----------



## Guest

Minimum fares with no tip option are a disgrace to humanity and people on here defend that.


----------



## galileo5

DenverPotholes said:


> Minimum fares with no tip option are a disgrace to humanity and people on here defend that.


Minimum fares in which the driver gets 48% instead of 80%.


----------



## maxista

DenverPotholes said:


> How in the word did this discussion get political , hahahaha, Maxista keep it up and let us know if anything changes.


I'm working it hard tonight. 5 cancellations already.  I'll give you guys an update if anything major happens, or at the end of March. Thank you for the support.


----------



## howo3579

Bruce DeVaux said:


> in my area we have no lyft-- there fore we can not use most of ur suggestion-- the haters against u are probably driving because they are bored not bec they r making a living-- maybe some of what u said is walking a thin line-- IF UBER WOULD STOP THE RATE CUTS-- most drivers would not consider doing this-- some of those same HATERS are the ones cutting ahead of other drivers at airports and hot spots-- we have one big hater in my area-- but when i watch him at airport he always parks (in front of drivers already parked) (closer to riders) so he will get the 1st call-- these things are ALL UBER'S FAULT because they refuse to setup geo-fencing and FIFO-- most workers just want honest pay for honest work--


Uber wants nearest car to get the ping. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe that 'hater' had more kids to feed and need the money more than you do. If you want to beat him, park in front of him. It's fair play.


----------



## howo3579

Bruce DeVaux said:


> i think if uber would stop the rate cuts THEN fewer drivers would try these types of aggressive policies to earn a living--


I think if people would stop driving or refer people to drive THEN Uber would have to bring the rate back up.
Uber doesn't give a shit about our livelihood. They will just get rid of cancellation fee when it gets abused too many times, but idiots like us will still continue to drive.


----------



## hybridman06

maxista said:


> I get more tips than you think. In fact, I get a lot more than most drivers I'm sure. Why are you here trolling around? Oh let me see, you just started driving with your hybrid and now you think you know about Uber and customer service? Let's see how that turns out after 3300 rides.


Haha no I'd never drive a hybrid to save my life. That's my username because the hybrid is my favorite golf club, I drive an '09 Audi A3. Nice try though. It's cool that you know how much other drivers make in tips. Oh let me see, you're probably the guy trying to rob other drivers of their cash tips when you take uber rides yourself? Let me know how that works out after 1 arrest. See how making assumptions works out for you? Honestly buddy they're either tipping your car, or amazed at your stupidity and want to help out a future vagabond.


----------



## maxista

I've been wanting to add something to this thread to cover two instances that further justify my use of the cancellation tactic. 
*
1. Apartments and gated communities. *
Most people who live inside these things, in my experience, are almost never waiting at the gates. They most often don't even have the courtesy or foresight to text or call with a gate code, building number, much less an apartment number. It's pathetic how inconsiderate riders can be, as though I'm going to magically know where to find them, and wait for them to come out at their leisure. It's a tremendous nuisance to go on a scavenger hunt every time we receive a ping at one of these types of communities.
I do not believe there is any sort of clause in the Uber agreement that puts it upon the driver to locate a rider inside a maze of densely packed buildings and cars. This scenario, which is all too common in the Phoenix area, wastes precious time, and further justifies my way of dealing with unprepared unready riders. It is not my job to locate them once I'm on site. I am at the pin drop. I will show up at the pin and wait at the gates. If you do not contact me with a gate code and instructions on how to locate you, you will be cancelled on and charged. 
I can tell you from experience, that this is very common, and it's a big pain. My strategy tells them that perhaps next time, they should be a little more conscientious that I'm not a wizard who can guess where they are, and that they ought to be ready. Again, over 300 cancellations, not a single issue or comment from Uber regarding this.
*
2. People who "game" the system. *
A few nights ago I was pinged at bar at 2.1 surge. It took me 1 minute to get there as I was just around the corner. Upon arrival, the PAX instantly cancelled. 2 minutes after that, the same PAX re-pings me at my original starting location, this time no surge, so I went back to where I started. Once I arrvived, the PAX called and explained that he was actually at the place he originally cancelled at... By then, the PAX had wasted 5 minutes of my time, not to mention the movements from one bar to the next, and back again. I asked him to explain what happened. He explained that he had cancelled the ride because in his mind "it was 7pm and there was no way he was going to pay a surge at that hour", he also added that some of his friends work for Uber, and had learned from them that all he had to do to avoid surges was place the pin farther away and call the driver...

This is a case of PAX learning or trying to learn how to beat the system. When I tried to explain to this guy that he was wasting my time, his attitude was combative and entitled. He was not willing to understand that ordering and cancelling every 2-3 minutes was using precious resources of drivers that they are not being compensated for. It's riders like him, that do not make me fell bad at all for doing what I do.

Conclusion: 
Those of you who are outraged by my use of the cancellation tactic have no idea what it's really like out there. Most PAX do not care, all they see, and think about, is their cost and their time, not ours. Uber has contributed to the further alienation of people from each other by turning PAX into ultra price sensitive jerks who have no concern for the well being and efforts of their drivers. Those of you who act like what I'm doing is wrong, should walk a mile in our shoes, and see what we have to put up with. It's not just the drivers bending the rules, the PAX do it too, and in all sorts of ways. I once had a couple girls cancel the ride as soon as they got in the car at 4x, and then act like they didn't do anything. When I confronted them about it, they tried to say that I was the jerk and started being extremely rude. It was awful. I had to ask them to get out of the car to stop the verbal onslaught, and when they got out, their yelling started attracting a crowd. It was such a pathetic sh*t show.


----------



## galileo5

maxista said:


> It is not my job to locate them once I'm on site. I am at the pin drop.


If the address and pindrop don't coincide, do you make the effort to find the address or do you wait at the pindrop?


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


POST # 1/maxista: "Ahoy!" and Welcome
to UP.Net/Forums from
Sunny, 76°F t'day, Blueskied Marco Island
on Florida's Wild SSW Coast.

How EXCITING to have your 1st Featured
Thread collect 42 Likes in 9 days! It IS
ON TRAVIS & MINIONS that you've been
FORCED to be Tough & Ruthle$$ with
Entitled PAX that have been conned into
thinking that they are Totes "Green"
PlanetSavers and Hipsters-of-the-Finest-
Kind.

BTW: I HAD to Compare Dates to see if this
was Authored by Desert Driver/Hunt to Eat.
You certainly EXEMPLIFY his A.B.C. "Ethic":
A....lways
B....e
C....ompensated

Be sure to Check your Profile Post for
Unexpected Good News!

Mentoring Bison: Here since 07DEC 2014.


----------



## maxista

galileo5 said:


> If the address and pindrop don't coincide, do you make the effort to find the address or do you wait at the pindrop?


Not sure what you mean. Why wouldn't they coincide? I don't use navigation if that's what you're implying/assuming. I look at the Uber map and use my knowledge of the city, once I'm there I go to the pin, or as close to the pin as I can manage. If the address doesn't match the pin I don't have a way of knowing that. It's not my problem anyway. I make an effort sometimes to get into a complex, other times not at all, but I usually wait at the pin drop. Of course if there's a significant surge, I've already called them.

It is the PAX's responsibility to make sure the pin is in the right place. There should be no argument there.


----------



## maxista

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 1/maxista: "Ahoy!" and Welcome
> to UP.Net/Forums from
> Sunny, 76°F t'day, Blueskied Marco Island
> on Florida's Wild SSW Coast.
> 
> How EXCITING to have your 1st Featured
> Thread collect 42 Likes in 9 days! It IS
> ON TRAVIS & MINIONS that you've been
> FORCED to be Tough & Ruthle$$ with
> Entitled PAX that have been conned into
> thinking that they are Totes "Green"
> PlanetSavers and Hipsters-of-the-Finest-
> Kind.
> 
> BTW: I HAD to Compare Dates to see if this
> was Authored by Desert Driver/Hunt to Eat.
> You certainly EXEMPLIFY his A.B.C. "Ethic":
> A....lways
> B....e
> C....ompensated
> 
> Be sure to Check your Profile Post for
> Unexpected Good News!
> 
> Mentoring Bison: Here since 07DEC 2014.


Hear hear!  Yes, these people need to understand that I'm working. My time is precious. My time is money.


----------



## galuzyaki

$15 an hour each week is horrible!


----------



## maxista

galuzyaki said:


> $15 an hour each week is horrible!


That's the least I make. The most is $25 average for the week. Since September I've averaged $20+ every week. $15/avg/week are my summer levels. In Phoenix summer is the dead season. Also, I don't count cash tips in those figures.


----------



## Realityshark

If Uber treated their drivers fairly and honestly, this thread wouldn't exist.....just sayin'.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Realityshark said:


> If Uber treated their drivers fairly and honestly, this thread wouldn't exist.....just sayin'.


POST #:346/Realityshark: I've said it
before...I'll say it
A G A I N : A L L...S H A R K !
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ N O...S N A R K !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Digits said:


> Your strategy could benefit alot of drivers out there. I would rather delete the app if it's not working out the right way for me. Drive uber,don't let uber drive you..


POST #:7/Digits: How nice! Imitation
IS the Sincerest
Form of Flattery : Use #[F]Uber.
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆Don't let #[F]Uber use You!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

maxista said:


> Dude what? St. Peter at the pearly gates? You're not kidding are you? I'm worse than Uber because I work it to make a few extra bucks? You don't think they know what they're doing? You and I live in two different universes. In my universe, I'm not committing any "wrongs". In my universe, Uber decision makers know exactly what they are doing. In your universe, you seem to believe that:
> a. consumers bear no responsibility for using a service that exploits their workers.
> b. Uber is some benevolent force that doesn't understand the consequences of their decisions.
> c. St. Peter's unicorn is about to take you on a rainbow ride to heaven and I'm about to be struck down by the mighty force of the angry lord who resents slaves standing up for themselves.
> 
> You sir, are so far off the mark, it makes me wonder, what's your angle? How many rides have you given? What hours do you drive? Do you drive?


POST#33/maxista: O U C H & A H A L F !
UberLou, I feel
YOUR NearOutrage...but really, "Max" is
just "Putting the Boot" to TravvyNaddies
in a Way that Counterbalances ALL the
"When Bad Things Happen-2-Good People"
Things that WE wish we could be Fairly
Recompensed For.

Sorry, but I see a Walter Mittyesque
Character striking a Psychic Blow
against "Big Brother" on behalf of
the Drivership.

Mentoring Bison: Reluctantly Admires.


----------



## howo3579

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST#33/maxista: O U C H & A H A L F !
> UberLou, I feel
> YOUR NearOutrage...but really, "Max" is
> just "Putting the Boot" to TravvyNaddies
> in a Way that Counterbalances ALL the
> "When Bad Things Happen-2-Good People"
> Things that WE wish we could be Fairly
> Recompensed For.
> 
> Sorry, but I see a Walter Mittyesque
> Character striking a Psychic Blow
> against "Big Brother" on behalf of
> the Drivership.
> 
> Mentoring Bison: Reluctantly Admires.


It cost me a million brain cells to read one of your posts.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

gravelaine said:


> As a passenger, I am not surprised drivers are doing this. While I am, I would say, a good passenger, Uber has created this environment which was not necessary. For example, in Arizona which maxista apparently is from, Uber just lowered the rates down to 75 cents a mile. I received an email from Uber telling me how happy I should be for new lower _*affordable *_rates. I was baffled as the rates were already very affordable. I found out later from a driver, Uber sent drivers in Phoenix an email stating "Winter Slump" so they are lowering rates. Well, as a resident from Phoenix for two decades, I can tell you from January until April, it is the high season with all resorts and hotels being full (Phoenix Open, Barrett Jackson Show, Spring training).
> 
> Anyways, when a company is not being upfront or even lie with you, this is the environment it creates. Regarding the cancellation, some would say it is border line unethical, but the passenger as myself have control about our cancellation. If I see the driver drive the opposite direction, I just cancel. Of course, I could call yellow cab and get a 15 to 45 mins waiting estimate. In the end, ride share is still faster and cheaper. I just use Lyft now anyways as I am able to tip drivers.
> 
> Also, let me tell you about riders not knowing to tip. The knowledge about tips not being included in the fares is now known to most riders who take Uber, but instead they still rather not tip. It is like your Miranda Rights, everyone know they have them before the police even cite it.
> 
> My three cents.


POST # 31/gravelaine: Thank You for
your Enlightened
"Passengership"...AND...for letting UPNF
Know of Your Pro-Driver Sentiments.

Bison Admires. Bison Inspires!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

howo3579 said:


> It cost me a million brain cells to read one of your posts.


POST # 351/howo3579: Yeah...but it
sure beats that
18Pk. of Blatz and Fifth of Everclear !


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Greguzzi said:


> All of those things I described drip from your posts.
> 
> I am not a fan of Trump. I am a constitutional civil libertarian. I believe in freedom-no "buts" required. And I believe the Constitution says what it says and that it says nothing more. All the rights in the Bill of Rights are negative rights, in that they limit government but do not limit the people. If you don't like what's in the Constitution, an amendment process is provided.
> 
> In my perfect whirled, you would read complimentary stories in an unbiased press about a gay married couple defending their legal pot plants with legal machine-guns.
> 
> Who will I vote for? The one that I think is least likely to take away my Constitutional rights. The Democrats want to act like fascists and take away my 2nd Amendment rights. They also routinely try to restrict the free-speech rights of their political opponents by using government power (IRS, BATFE, DOJ, etc.) to suppress their voices. That makes it impossible for me to vote for Democrat candidates. If the Republican nominee is someone that I think will follow the Constitution, he will get my vote. If not, I'll vote Libertarian.


What's YOUR definition of nut job? 'Cos you seem pretty out there to me.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Boltbird said:


> Idiot


POST # 350/Boltbird : Forgive me for
being ...I N D E L I C A T E
but are you making an Accusation.....
Or just a Forthright Confession ?


----------



## galileo5

I've been leaving the Uber app on while on a Lyft ride, accepting all incoming Uber pings and letting the Uber passengers cancel. One Uber passenger just now couldn't understand that I wasn't on my way, even texting me if I was lost. She wouldn't stop calling. She didn't cancel until ten minutes later.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

scrurbscrud said:


> Drivers can slide for awhile on cancel rates, but if they are consistently under 80% they'll get scratched from the system eventually. 3 weeks or more with 80% or less accept/complete fares will usually start the deactivation ball rolling.
> 
> Also hitting arrived before arriving is an easy mark for Uber to pick up on the GPS system, so I wouldn't advise that either. Might be a weak spot if Uber isn't flagging it, but once attention is drawn to the driver they can look. Pretty sure they employ tracking stats that drivers are not privy to. Like how much time a driver may sit after getting a ping. How the travel goes according to the estimated time and real time, etc etc. Probably LOTTSA stats of this nature.
> 
> If a driver wants to drive, then drive. If not, don't. If a driver does drive they should take a little pride and consideration in their work regardless.


POST # 36/scrurbscrud : Thank You for
Mentoring maxista .
He is UNAWARE of the long Drawn Out
Saga of the Retributively Brutal #[F]Uber
Phoenix City Manager and his Spurious
Deactivation of IraqVet @Babyarm86
because, like Travis, he treated Drivers
as SubHuman, calling them "commodity".
Yes. With a small "c".

Feeling Entitled to INVENT a Reason,
the All-Purpose "Fraudulent Activity/
Guarantee Invalidation" was the Cold
Corporate Verdict and Hubristic Rejection.

No wonder that in 2015, #[F]Uber was Ignominiously Labeled as "6th Most
HATED Co. in America". Travis sees it
as a Perverse Honorific, much in the way
that Each Lawsuit serves as an Aphrodisiac
for his Selfish "Onanistic" Lifestyle.


----------



## Chris'slifts

Good on you. The Uber apologists would have you working for nothing without anything registering on their moral compass.


----------



## Digits

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 350/Boltbird : Forgive me for
> being ...I N D E L I C A T E
> but are you making an Accusation.....
> Or just a Forthright Confession ?


There's an old saying, "Never approach a bison from the front, a horse from the rear and an idiot from any side".


----------



## Wild Horse

This makes sense. Riders do not respect you the driver or your vehicle quite frequently in otherwords most of the time! I find myself saying thankyou to people who are normal!


----------



## JasonB

I'm as much against all of Uber's shenanigans as the next guy, but almost every single bit of this 'advice' 
seems to be very misplaced...

Up to, and including, speeding through the city to pickups and w/ pax on board, ignoring traffic laws and traffic signals, and
purposely ripping off pax.

Wow.

How in the world you haven't been deactivated yet is (literally) unbelievable.

You know, Uber can now see how fast and aggressively you are driving. Pax now have every opportunity to complain to Uber when they
are forced to cancel. They can also complain to Uber when you are ignoring phone calls. They can also complain to Uber if they feel you are 
driving wrecklessly. The % of pax that decide to get in touch with Uber support by phone to get their $5 back, what do you imagine they are saying about you? That you showed up as promised and it was their own fault for not being able to find you?

There are decent, hard-working drivers getting deactivated left and right for nothing more than a few ACRO's (which, btw is supposed to be
the right of anyone who is truly an independent contractor) and we are supposed to believe you are getting away with all of these infractions
on a nightly basis, and still actively driving for Uber?

With all those 1* ratings you are giving pax, how many could be left that would still leave you with a healthy amount of pings each night?

Even if this were all true, hopefully it's worth it to you speeding around town, ignoring traffic laws, skirting felony fraud laws and putting peoples lives in danger by driving like a lunatic for $15/hour (minus Uber's cut, gas, vehicle maintenance and insurance)


----------



## maxista

JasonB said:


> I'm as much against all of Uber's shenanigans as the next guy, but almost every single bit of this 'advice'
> seems to be very misplaced...
> 
> Up to, and including, speeding through the city to pickups and w/ pax on board, ignoring traffic laws and traffic signals, and
> purposely ripping off pax.
> 
> Wow.
> 
> How in the world you haven't been deactivated yet is (literally) unbelievable.
> 
> You know, Uber can now see how fast and aggressively you are driving. Pax now have every opportunity to complain to Uber when they
> are forced to cancel. They can also complain to Uber when you are ignoring phone calls. They can also complain to Uber if they feel you are
> driving wrecklessly. The % of pax that decide to get in touch with Uber support by phone to get their $5 back, what do you imagine they are saying about you? That you showed up as promised and it was their own fault for not being able to find you?
> 
> There are decent, hard-working drivers getting deactivated left and right for nothing more than a few ACRO's (which, btw is supposed to be
> the right of anyone who is truly an independent contractor) and we are supposed to believe you are getting away with all of these infractions
> on a nightly basis, and still actively driving for Uber?
> 
> With all those 1* ratings you are giving pax, how many could be left that would still leave you with a healthy amount of pings each night?
> 
> Even if this were all true, hopefully it's worth it to you speeding around town, ignoring traffic laws, skirting felony fraud laws and putting peoples lives in danger by driving like a lunatic for $15/hour (minus Uber's cut, gas, vehicle maintenance and insurance)


I'm afraid it's your reasoning that is very misplaced. Let me explain.

1. Yes, I speed, but just enough to go faster and not to get pulled over. I average 5-15 above the limit depending on the situation and my mood.

2. 90% of my cancellations are perfectly legitimate. It is not my job to place the pin and to make people pay attention to their phones and notifications. If the PAX isn't smart enough to correctly place the pin and to be ready within 5 minutes, I'm not breakin any rules by cancelling.

3. You are giving Uber way too much credit. Not only do they not track speeds, they just don't care as much as you think they do.

4. My ratings are excellent. I maintain a 90% 5 star rating.

5. I have a 15% cancellation rate as of this new year. Last year, I averaged 8% on Uber. These are "no show" cancellations where the customer is charged.

6. The $15/hour figure I gave you, was my lowest weekly average. That total is after gas. Since September I have averaged $20-$25/hour nearly every week.

What you don't understand is that I use these tactics in a strategic way. If I get one complaint every 50 rides, it's not on their radar. After more than 2300 rides and growing, clearly I've found a nice balance. I have not received any warnings from Uber.

Your criticisms reveal that you don't understand how this game works. I am not making this up. You're also guilty of exaggerating what I've been saying. I suggest you go back and read some of the comments from other drivers who are also using these tactics. My guess is that you haven't done 500 rides. Your condemnation is misplaced.


----------



## 45821

Uberest said:


> I've made this point before -- there is one very large error in your thinking Maxsista. To the extent you inconvenience pax, so that the pax comes to think less of Uber, you are screwing your brother and sister drivers as well as your self. Why? Because that pax is less likely to use uber in the future if he has a bad/crooked experience with you. That reduces the rideshare market, meaning fewer pings for all over time. The pax talks to his buds, his fam, etc. You are hurting the MARKET. You are hurting OTHER DRIVERS in exchange for a short term feel good for you.


What is your salary with Uber, soon they will give you a pink slip too. Check this out, nobody gives a damn about pax convenience, we are here to make money for ourselves and nothing more.


----------



## 45821

Uberest said:


> I've made this point before -- there is one very large error in your thinking Maxsista. To the extent you inconvenience pax, so that the pax comes to think less of Uber, you are screwing your brother and sister drivers as well as your self. Why? Because that pax is less likely to use uber in the future if he has a bad/crooked experience with you. That reduces the rideshare market, meaning fewer pings for all over time. The pax talks to his buds, his fam, etc. You are hurting the MARKET. You are hurting OTHER DRIVERS in exchange for a short term feel good for you.


Keep having your ride adventure for $.60 per mile, you totally deserve it.


----------



## 45821

maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


I will totally drink to what you wrote my man.


----------



## 45821

dpv said:


> It's not a game.


Now it is!!!


----------



## Uberup

Hence this is why uber is rich..suck ass people like yourselves in fighting .The man is right phuc uber and the pax...United we stand divided we beg.


----------



## 45821

Disgusted Driver said:


> I have a few aggressive techniques for increasing revenue but accepting a call, not trying to make pickup and then attempting to get cancellation fees is stealing. Please don't rationalize it. If you are OK with stealing then continue on and good luck to you. Please don't try to say otherwise, you are taking money from people without delivering or intending to deliver the service promised, sounds like stealing to me.


The money comes out of Uber pockets, which is fine.


----------



## 45821

UberLou said:


> Where does it say in Uber's rules to accept a ride with Lyft after already accepting an Uber and force the Uber rider to cancel the request? That is the definition of Crooked.


Keep calm and Keep on lovin uber UberLou


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Wild Horse said:


> This makes sense. Riders do not respect you the driver or your vehicle quite frequently in otherwords most of the time! I find myself saying thankyou to people who are normal!


POST #:359/Wild Horse: "Ahoy!" and
Welcome to UP.Net/Forums
from Sunny, 70's later, Marco Island
on Florida's Wild SSW Coast.

With TENS of Thousands of Members
within 25 miles of "The Coast" it IS
refreshing to have Meaningful Con-
versations with Folks from the "Heart-
land" ! May I introduce You to Two Faves?

Jedi Driver is a High School English
Instructor in Omaha, and VERY PartTime
#[F]UberPilot, ever since Travvy Promised her that "Lower Rate$ = Greater Earning$" on the UNProven Theory that she'll be "Raking it In" when "Rides are Free".

secretadmirer is a Dental Floss Tycoon
from Montana, who REALLY is a Cabbie
in Cedar Falls, IA. who RARELY Contri-
butes to the Kakanicky Sovereign Wealth
Fund [a/k/a AntiPersonnel LLC] and en-
joyed a Former Life as 4th Notable and
Premiere "Off Topic" Poster Lidman.
He enjoys Damning Me with FaintPraise
when he isn't attempting to Bully and/or
Castigate Bostonian Bison, my Doppel-
ganger.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Chris'slifts said:


> Good on you. The Uber apologists would have you working for nothing without anything registering on their moral compass.


POST # 357/Chris'slifts: "Ahoy!" and Wel-
come to UP.Net/Forums
from Sunny, 70's later, Marco Island on
Florida's Wild SSW Coast.

"#[F]Uber Apologists" HARDLY ! The
ONLY UPNFer that is a MORE Regular
Denouncer of ALL Things Kakanicky
is #1 Notable, "St. Comity of Chicago",
chi1cabby, WHO after a Year'sWorth
of Conversational Cattle-prodding, has
convinced this Doppelganger-American
to join him and HUNDREDS of Other
Members HERE to join the TWITTER-
VERSE and "Put the Boots" to Travvy
and his Selfi$h "Onanistic" Coven of
"Vulture Capitali$t$" at their NEW H.Q.
in Herbal "Oaksterdam", Kalifornia.

MentoringBison: Keeping. It. 100%. REAL!


----------



## maxista

Wild Horse said:


> This makes sense. Riders do not respect you the driver or your vehicle quite frequently in otherwords most of the time! I find myself saying thank you to people who are normal!


Yes, it is crazy. I find myself doing the same. People who are nice, normal, who actually want to have a conversation are wonderful and too few and far between. I too thank them for being respectful and engaging. The Uber apologists, as Chris'slifts so nicely described them, do not understand that too many people do not respect us at all. They could care less about our time, our cars, our jobs, our livelihoods, and our lives, etc. All they care about is their own time, their wallets and their comforts. Sadly, this is the state of an entitle hyperconsumeristic populace who has been duped into thinking that their "consumer" hat gives them the right to go sh*t on everyone as soon as they put it on.

With the advent of Yelp, every Joe Shmoe is a critic, with the advent of Instagram, every two bit broad is a model, and with the advent of Uber, every idiot has his own private limo driver. The concept of alienation has taken a new form in the 21st century.


----------



## 45821

maxista said:


> Yes, it is crazy. I find myself doing the same. People who are nice, normal, who actually want to have a conversation are wonderful and too few and far between. I too thank them for being respectful and engaging. The Uber apologists, as Chris'slifts so nicely described them, do not understand that too many people do not respect us at all. They could care less about our time, our cars, our jobs, our livelihoods, and our lives, etc. All they care about is their own time, their wallets and their comforts. Sadly, this is the state of an entitle hyperconsumeristic populace who has been duped into thinking that their "consumer" hat gives them the right to go sh*t on everyone as soon as they put it on.
> 
> With the advent of Yelp, every Joe Shmoe is a critic, with the advent of Instagram, every two bit broad is a model, and with the advent of Uber, every idiot has his own private limo driver. The concept of alienation has taken a new form in the 21st century.


I swear dude, we need to have a beer one day. Were you born and raised in this country, because if you were then your awareness about current affairs is unheard of. What University did you graduate from?


----------



## kaigor

Bon Jovi said:


> I swear dude, we need to have a beer one day. Were you born and raised in this country, because if you were then your awareness about current affairs is unheard of. What University did you graduate from?


I'm gonna guess no university at all... Otherwise it's sad he's ubering full time for 15-25 bucks an hour and has gotten so deep into the game that he needs to come up with these "cheats/hacks" and share. If he had a college degree surely he'd be smart enough to realize he isn't making enough money or that uber isn't a sustainable full time gig and quit. But then again maybe he went to the University of Phoenix LOL!


----------



## maxista

kaigor said:


> I'm gonna guess no university at all... Otherwise it's sad he's ubering full time for 15-25 bucks an hour and has gotten so deep into the game that he needs to come up with these "cheats/hacks" and share. If he had a college degree surely he'd be smart enough to realize he isn't making enough money or that uber isn't a sustainable full time gig and quit. But then again maybe he went to the University of Phoenix LOL!


Your guess is wrong. I spent 4 years at a major state university, and the vast majority of my peers were idiots who only cared about drinking and sex.

How much do you make? How much freedom do you have at your job? Do you realize that most universities are worthless diploma factories? I've been doing this for 10 months, I've been successful at it and having fun, and I still have fun.

Why are you here hating on me when you know nothing about who I am, what I've done, and what I'm capable of? Do you realize that I make more money than a lot of college grads ever will?


----------



## kaigor

maxista said:


> Your guess is wrong. I spent 4 years at a major state university, and the vast majority of my peers were idiots who only cared about drinking and sex.
> 
> How much do you make? How much freedom do you have at your job? Do you realize that most universities are worthless diploma factories? I've been doing this for 10 months, I've been successful at it and having fun, and I still have fun.
> 
> Why are you here hating on me when you know nothing about who I am, what I've done, and what I'm capable of? Do you realize that I make more money than a lot of college grads ever will?


I judge you because of the pettiness of your posts. It's clear that you're doing this full time and seem to headed towards "lifer" driver status. Only full time, career drivers would be so vain as to Come up with all these little tricks. Someone who has a full time job and does his on the side for travel money/student loans/credit cards (me) don't waste the time and effort stooping so low to play games. Lol I like how you ask if I realize how you're gonna make a lot more money than us college grads... Lol doing what driving uber full time with your silly cheats and tricks? Get real! Btw since you asked...I make 60k a year (very modest) can work from home whenever I want and just finished traveling for 6 months around the world. My job let me take a sabbatical and even gave me a promotion when I got back. All that worldly experience paid off! So yea I'd say I have a lot of freedom at my day job. But you know... Keep doing you and collecting that 4 dollars bro!


----------



## galileo5

maxista said:


> Your guess is wrong. I spent 4 years at a major state university, and the vast majority of my peers were idiots who only cared about drinking and sex.
> 
> How much do you make? How much freedom do you have at your job? Do you realize that most universities are worthless diploma factories? I've been doing this for 10 months, I've been successful at it and having fun, and I still have fun.
> 
> Why are you here hating on me when you know nothing about who I am, what I've done, and what I'm capable of? Do you realize that I make more money than a lot of college grads ever will?


The guy has no class consciousness.


----------



## kaigor

galileo5 said:


> The guy has no class consciousness.


That may be true but the OP has no class. Period.


----------



## galileo5

kaigor said:


> That may be true but the OP has no class. Period.


You have to understand that corporations are the enemy and they're exploiting the workers (you, me, etc). 
Maxista is simply showing a strong, yet subtle way to fight back.


----------



## maxista

kaigor said:


> That may be true but the OP has no class. Period.


Class? Tell me, what does "class" do for me in this world? Could you define what you think "class" means? I'm just curious. I'd really like to know what you think it is. Truly.


----------



## maxista

kaigor said:


> I judge you because of the pettiness of your posts. It's clear that you're doing this full time and seem to headed towards "lifer" driver status. Only full time, career drivers would be so vain as to Come up with all these little tricks. Someone who has a full time job and does his on the side for travel money/student loans/credit cards (me) don't waste the time and effort stooping so low to play games. Lol I like how you ask if I realize how you're gonna make a lot more money than us college grads... Lol doing what driving uber full time with your silly cheats and tricks? Get real! Btw since you asked...I make 60k a year (very modest) can work from home whenever I want and just finished traveling for 6 months around the world. My job let me take a sabbatical and even gave me a promotion when I got back. All that worldly experience paid off! So yea I'd say I have a lot of freedom at my day job. But you know... Keep doing you and collecting that 4 dollars bro!


Let me ask you, as someone who makes pretty much what I make, what makes you so much better? What do you make of those on this thread who like what I'm doing, who are inspired by it, and who even call me, courageous for doing it? Also, since you have so much freedom and since you clearly resent drivers, why are you spending your precious free time attacking us? What purpose does involving yourself in such discussions and attacks serve for you?


----------



## Greguzzi

maxista said:


> You're a sad, bitter, morbid, pompous old man. Your reply is crazy. Indoctrination... you have no idea what you're saying. Keep on rambling to yourself, no one's listening.


LOL.


----------



## superhans

kaigor said:


> I'm gonna guess no university at all... Otherwise it's sad he's ubering full time for 15-25 bucks an hour and has gotten so deep into the game that he needs to come up with these "cheats/hacks" and share. If he had a college degree surely he'd be smart enough to realize he isn't making enough money or that uber isn't a sustainable full time gig and quit. But then again maybe he went to the University of Phoenix LOL!


Oh right, further education is just for earning more money, of course, I'd forgotten.


----------



## Greguzzi

maxista said:


> Let me ask you, as someone who makes pretty much what I make, what makes you so much better? What do you make of those on this thread who like what I'm doing, who are inspired by it, and who even call me, courageous for doing it? Also, since you have so much freedom and since you clearly resent drivers, why are you spending your precious free time attacking us? What purpose does involving yourself in such discussions and attacks serve for you?


LOL.


----------



## Greguzzi

Fuzzyelvis said:


> What's YOUR definition of nut job? 'Cos you seem pretty out there to me.


What's your definition of a meat puppet? You seem like a meat puppet to me.


----------



## Greguzzi

galileo5 said:


> The guy has no class consciousness.


OMFG, that is funny.


----------



## kaigor

maxista said:


> Class? Tell me, what does "class" do for me in this world? Could you define what you think "class" means? I'm just curious. I'd really like to know what you think it is. Truly.


If I have to define what class is you clearly don't have it. Gouging people for 4 dollars is not classy. But like I said you do you bro, clearly u need those 4 dollars


----------



## kaigor

maxista said:


> Let me ask you, as someone who makes pretty much what I make, what makes you so much better? What do you make of those on this thread who like what I'm doing, who are inspired by it, and who even call me, courageous for doing it? Also, since you have so much freedom and since you clearly resent drivers, why are you spending your precious free time attacking us? What purpose does involving yourself in such discussions and attacks serve for you?


What makes me better? For one I don't need to play these silly games to price gouge PAX for 4 bucks. By the looks of this thread many others feel the same way as me on this issue and your behavior. I don't resent drivers, especially honest uber drivers. What I do resent are low life, cheating cabbies that try to rip you off on the fare, drive the long way, or practice the shady tactics you're supporting. In my eyes that makes you a lower class, dishonest, scum.


----------



## maxista

kaigor said:


> If I have to define what class is you clearly don't have it. Gouging people for 4 dollars is not classy. But like I said you do you bro, clearly u need those 4 dollars


You're not getting it, I want to read your explanation of what you think class is. I don't care if I have it or not, I'm interested in obtaining this "class" you speak of, I am much more interested in having you, describe to us what constitutes this noble trait you refer to as "class". So let's hear, let's focus on "class" for a bit. I'm genuinely interested. Tell us. What is "class"?


----------



## maxista

kaigor said:


> What makes me better? For one I don't need to play these silly games to price gouge PAX for 4 bucks. By the looks of this thread many others feel the same way as me on this issue and your behavior. I don't resent drivers, especially honest uber drivers. What I do resent are low life, cheating cabbies that try to rip you off on the fare, drive the long way, or practice the shady tactics you're supporting. In my eyes that makes you a lower class, dishonest, scum.


I find it odd that someone like you would lecture others on "honesty" when it's clear you haven't looked at the thread with any modicum of sincerity. Go back and read it; it has received high praises from many drivers here, especially those who work as hard as I do. There are so many things you don't understand and take for granted, it's hard to know where to start with someone like you. You clearly don't understand life. You think the world we live in runs on honesty? Tell me, where in our brand focused, hyper-consumerist, toxic food eating, yacht riding jumbo jet flying mega rich upper classed idolizing, incredibly unjust society, is there any honesty at all? When you think lawyer, do you think honest guy? How about when I say the word cop, what emotions get invoked? Hedge fund manager? Used car salesman? Politician? And you want to lecture us on honesty for charging 5 dollars to people who clearly doesn't respect our time? I'm a low-life cheating cabby now? So all cabbies are low lives according to you? I'm not even a cab driver, never was, never will be, but according to you I'm so "lower class" ergo it's OK for you and your fellow "higher class" people to sh*t on us for trying to earn a buck? It doesn't even occur to you that your outrage is misplaced? Tell me, if Uber had decent fares and compensated us for waiting for people who more often than not do not tip, and make us wait, would we be so eager to cancel and charge? Would you be able to explain to me why you think people like me cancel so efficiently? Could it be because we're trying to make a point? How many rides have you given? Come on lets hear it. You're the f*cking scumbag, and a god damn hypocrite scumbag.


----------



## maxista

kaigor said:


> What makes me better? For one I don't need to play these silly games to price gouge PAX for 4 bucks. By the looks of this thread many others feel the same way as me on this issue and your behavior. I don't resent drivers, especially honest uber drivers. What I do resent are low life, cheating cabbies that try to rip you off on the fare, drive the long way, or practice the shady tactics you're supporting. In my eyes that makes you a lower class, dishonest, scum.


I'm also really curious, what kind of work do you do, that you play any "games". What "honest" line of work are you in? Go on tell us.


----------



## kaigor

maxista said:


> I find it odd that someone like you would lecture others on "honesty" when it's clear you haven't looked at the thread with any modicum of sincerity. Go back and read it; it has received high praises from many drivers here, especially those who work as hard as I do. There are so many things you don't understand and take for granted, it's hard to know where to start with someone like you. You clearly don't understand life. You think the world we live in is runs on honesty? Tell me, where in our brand focused, hyper-consumerist, toxic food eating, yacht riding jumbo jet flying mega rich upper classed idolizing, incredibly unjust society, is there any honesty at all? When you think lawyer, do you think honest guy? How about when I say the word cop, what emotions get invoked? Hedge fund manager? Used car salesman? Politician? And you want to lecture us on honesty for charging 5 dollars to people who clearly doesn't respect our time? I'm a low-life cheating cabby now? So all cabbies are low lives according to you? I'm not even a cab driver, never was, never will be, but according to you I'm so "lower class" ergo it's OK for you and your fellow "higher class" people to sh*t on us for trying to earn a buck? It doesn't even occur to you that your outrage is misplaced? Tell me, if Uber had decent fares and compensated us for waiting for people who more often than not do not tip, and make us wait, would we be so eager to cancel and charge? Would you be able to explain to me why you think people like cancel so efficiently? Could it be because we're trying to make a point? How many rides have you given? Come on lets hear it. You're the f*cking scumbag, and a god damn hypocrite scumbag.


Listen here boy. I ain't going back and reading 20 pages of your nonsense trying to convince people what you do is ethical and entitled to you. Just admit what you do is not good business and somewhat sketch. I don't disagree with you on uber being a shitty company and that the price cuts weren't right. But like others mentioned you shouldn't punish the PAX for something uber is doing. You mentioned that I make about the same as you, tell me what your full time job is? Cuz you ain't pushing 60 making 15-20 an hour doing uber lol!


----------



## kaigor

maxista said:


> I'm also really curious, what kind of work do you do, that you play any "games". What "honest" line of work are you in? Go on tell us.


I'm in supply chain management. I manage a group of international suppliers for my company... Negotiating contracts, handling escalations, pretty much relationship management. Pretty honest if I say so myself.


----------



## 45821

kaigor said:


> I'm in supply chain management. I manage a group of international suppliers for my company... Negotiating contracts, handling escalations, pretty much relationship management. Pretty honest if I say so myself.


Your job description sounds pretty sophisticated and yet you drive for uber, for what reason exactly? You know, Cirkle K usually has 2 employees at any given time, and both of them are managers. You are making $60000 per year and you drive for Uber. I figure that you took on pretty pricey hobby after you finish your day as a supply manager.


----------



## maxista

kaigor said:


> I'm in supply chain management. I manage a group of international suppliers for my company... Negotiating contracts, handling escalations, pretty much relationship management. Pretty honest if I say so myself.


Yea, international suppliers, what do they supply and to whom? How do they supply it? Or are those questions too big for you?


----------



## 45821

kaigor said:


> What makes me better? For one I don't need to play these silly games to price gouge PAX for 4 bucks. By the looks of this thread many others feel the same way as me on this issue and your behavior. I don't resent drivers, especially honest uber drivers. What I do resent are low life, cheating cabbies that try to rip you off on the fare, drive the long way, or practice the shady tactics you're supporting. In my eyes that makes you a lower class, dishonest, scum.


Honest, uneducated and gullible uber drivers is exactly what uber is banking on my friend. That's how money is made in today's U.S. of A.


----------



## kaigor

maxista said:


> Yea, international suppliers, what do they supply and to whom? How do they supply it? Or are those questions too big for you?


Lol clearly not if I manage them... For obvious reasons I'm not going to disclose anymore about my business and the contractual agreements I manage.


----------



## kaigor

maxista said:


> I make 50K tax free. What does your 60 come out to net? What does this have to do with anything?


You still haven't told me what you do? 50k tax free? Please do tell.


----------



## maxista

kaigor said:


> Listen here boy. I ain't going back and reading 20 pages of your nonsense trying to convince people what you do is ethical and entitled to you. Just admit what you do is not good business and somewhat sketch. I don't disagree with you on uber being a shitty company and that the price cuts weren't right. But like others mentioned you shouldn't punish the PAX for something uber is doing. You mentioned that I make about the same as you, tell me what your full time job is? Cuz you ain't pushing 60 making 15-20 an hour doing uber lol!


You have selective reading skills, kid. There are weeks where I average $25/hour and days and nights where I average $40/hour. So yea, I make 50K, and guess what, it's tax free after all the write offs. So what does your 60K come out to net after taxes? Like it or not we make the same, but I don't sit at a desk kissing ass all day, bowing down to some boss and some corporation that doesn't care about me or my life.


----------



## maxista

kaigor said:


> You still haven't told me what you do? 50k tax free? Please do tell.


What? Are you that stupid? This thread is about what tactics I use to make the money that I make driving Lyft, Fare, Uber, f-u-l-l t-i-m-e.


----------



## maxista

kaigor said:


> Lol clearly not if I manage them... For obvious reasons I'm not going to disclose anymore about my business and the contractual agreements I manage.


Of course, that might tarnish your impeccably "classy" situation with the "honest" honorable clients you "manage" for your friendly benign group of "bosses". You're delirious on Kool-Aid man. You haven't answered 1/10th of the questions I've asked you.


----------



## secretadmirer

The kaisor is on uber;s payroll. One of Travis' minions.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Greguzzi said:


> What's your definition of a meat puppet? You seem like a meat puppet to me.


What the F is a meat puppet?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

kaigor said:


> What makes me better? For one I don't need to play these silly games to price gouge PAX for 4 bucks. By the looks of this thread many others feel the same way as me on this issue and your behavior. I don't resent drivers, especially honest uber drivers. What I do resent are low life, cheating cabbies that try to rip you off on the fare, drive the long way, or practice the shady tactics you're supporting. In my eyes that makes you a lower class, dishonest, scum.


How can you use the phrase "price gouge" in the same sentence as "4 bucks"?


----------



## kaigor

maxista said:


> You have selective reading skills, kid. There are weeks where I average $25/hour and days and nights where I average $40/hour. So yea, I make 50K, and guess what, it's tax free after all the write offs. So what does your 60K come out to net after taxes? Like it or not we make the same, but I don't sit at a desk kissing ass all day, bowing down to some boss and some corporation that doesn't care about me or my life.


You're delusional if you think you make 50k tax free lol. Even if you can write off most of your expenses I highly down you can write off 50k worth, that means you drove over 100k miles this past year? Also I have a 401K, HSA account, got LASIK covered this year, get 22 days of PAID TIME OFF, something you'll never have as a full time cabbie lol. What about your medical, dental, and other insurance? No need to subtract that from your earnings? Depreciation? Gas?? Lol get really bro.

Listen here son, and this is the last I'll say to you cuz I won't ever see eye to eye with a scheming, cheating cabbie. All of us drivers disagree and most reading my posts will disagree with me and side with you. One thing we all agree on, is that uber is not a viable full time job, certainly not a career. You don't seem to realize that and it's sad. Uber on!


----------



## kaigor

Fuzzyelvis said:


> How can you use the phrase "price gouge" in the same sentence as "4 bucks"?


Cheating someone out of money, no matter 4 or 40. Starting your "arrived" countdown 3 minutes before you're actually there then cancelling after 2 is price gouging.


----------



## kaigor

maxista said:


> Of course, that might tarnish your impeccably "classy" situation with the "honest" honorable clients you "manage" for your friendly benign group of "bosses". You're delirious on Kool-Aid man. You haven't answered 1/10th of the questions I've asked you.


Did I mention I took a 6 month around the world trip last year and my company held my job for me? Not only that they gave me a promotion! I can see your jelly showing 

Let me ask you something, how does it feel to spend all that money on that degree only to become a full time uber driver? Oh man didn'ty you know you don't need a degree for that? Lol!


----------



## galileo5

kaigor said:


> Did I mention I took a 6 month around the world trip last year and my company held my job for me? Not only that they gave me a promotion! I can see your jelly showing


I visited Mars the entire last year.
It's easy to make up stories.


----------



## maxista

kaigor said:


> You're delusional if you think you make 50k tax free lol. Even if you can write off most of your expenses I highly down you can write off 60k worth, that means you drove over 100k miles this past year? Also I have a 401K, HSA account, got LASIK covered this year, get 22 days of PAID TIME OFF, something you'll never have as a full time cabbie lol. What about your medical, dental, and other insurance? No need to subtract that from your earnings? Depreciation? Gas?? Lol get really bro.
> 
> this is the last I'll say to you cuz I won't ever see eye to eye with a scheming, cheating cabbie. All of us drivers disagree and most reading my posts will disagree with me and side with you. One thing we all agree on, is that uber is not a viable full time job, certainly not a career. You don't seem to realize that and it's sad. Uber on!


I filed my Schedule C, I did the math. I make what I make. If you don't want to believe it, that's not my problem.

Depreciation on the kind of car I own is a bigger write off then the actual costs of the car. If you play this game right you will pay no tax whatsoever. Grant it there are gives and takes, but I made 30K in 7 months last year, no tax, at all. Sure I don't have paid time off, but so what, I can take a month off if I want to. I also don't have to get up at a set time, deal with some bs boss who thinks he's better than I am, etc.

What makes you think this is a career choice? What makes you think I'm not doing this for the time being because I enjoy it and the freedom I have? Given the trends, you really believe I'm thinking of doing this for 10 years? It hasn't even been a year yet.

Seriously, you're not paying attention to what you're reading and you're assuming so much you're making a complete ass out of yourself.


----------



## secretadmirer

We'll be back after these messages.


----------



## kaigor

galileo5 said:


> I visited Mars the entire last year.
> It's easy to make up stories.


You're right it's easy to make up stories, so here's screen shots of the geotagged photos from my phone. Any further questions?


----------



## Chef Aarron

maxista said:


> Check this out:
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/help-4-drivers-made-me-cancel-fairs-now-got-a-cancel-fee.45157/
> 
> Case and point. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Let's not act like this isn't already happening on a grand scale.


And those drivers were thieving asses, too!


----------



## kaigor

maxista said:


> You listen kid, I filed my Schedule C, I did the math. I make what I make. If you don't want to believe it, that's not my problem.
> 
> Depreciation on the kind of car I own is a bigger write off then the actual costs of the car. If you play this game right you will pay no tax whatsoever. Grant it there are gives and takes, but I made 30K in 7 months last year, no tax, at all. Sure I don't have paid time off, but so what, I can take a month off if I want to. I also don't have to get up at a set time, deal with some bs boss who thinks he's better than I am, etc.
> 
> What makes you think this is a career choice? What makes you think I'm not doing this for the time being because I enjoy it and the freedom I have? Given the trends, you really believe I'm thinking of doing this for 10 years? It hasn't even been a year yet.
> 
> Seriously, you're not paying attention to what you're reading and you're assuming so much you're making a complete ass out of yourself.


Lol wait I thought you said you made 50k a year... But you actually only made 30k doing this for 8 months?!? Lol way to leave that part out and extrapolate your earnings lol. Dont you see the trend of uber cutting rates and screwing over drivers with less earnings? With that logic you're gonna make less this year... Certainly not 50k unless you double your efforts.
You say your depreciation for your car is a bigger write off than the actual cost of the car? Only newer cars depreciate that fast so you must be driving a new car like a chump lol.
Of course u can take a month off, you can take a year off too, it's called unemployment lol. You can't afford to take a month of bro, I get paid full wages while I sip on margaritas in Mexico.

Oh and being a rich spoiled kid? Try growing up with a single parent being a minority living in the Midwest, lol keep making your misguided assumptions tho. Oh and living in more countries than I've been in? Doubt it man I've been to 25 and counting... Screenshot to give you a sample of my around the world travels...


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## secretadmirer

Now back to "the fictional adventures of the kaisor"


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## Chef Aarron

Tommy Tours said:


> Very nice, one thing Uber changed was the arrival button doesn't exist now.


Actually it does. Drag the name up from the bottom and click where it says "Confirm you've arrived."


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## maxista

kaigor said:


> Lol wait I thought you said you made 50k a year... But you actually only made 30k doing this for 8 months?!? Lol way to leave that part out and extrapolate your earnings lol. Dont you see the trend of uber cutting rates and screwing over drivers with less earnings? With that logic you're gonna make less this year... Certainly not 50k unless you double your efforts.
> You say your depreciation for your car is a bigger write off than the actual cost of the car? Only newer cars depreciate that fast so you must be driving a new car like a chump lol.
> Of course u can take a month off, you can take a year off too, it's called unemployment lol. You can't afford to take a month of bro, I get paid full wages while I sip on margaritas in Mexico.
> 
> Oh and being a rich spoiled kid? Try growing up with a single parent being a minority living in the Midwest, lol keep making your misguided assumptions tho. Oh and living in more countries than I've been in? Doubt it man I've been to 25 and counting... Screenshot to give you a sample of my around the world travels...


So wait, you get paid to sip on margaritas and you think your job is "honest"?

If you get good deals on cheap cars depreciation value as far as the IRS is concerned can be greater on paper than in real life.

Listen, I don't really care about where you've been, you're not impressing me, you're certainly not convincing me, and after this conversation I realize I should really make it a rule not to engage people who have a difficult time using proper grammar. So much for your college degree. Signing off.


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## kaigor

maxista said:


> So wait, you get paid to sip on margaritas and you think your job is "honest"?
> 
> If you get good deals on cheap cars depreciation value as far as the IRS is concerned can be greater on paper than in real life.
> 
> Listen, I don't really care about where you've been, you're not impressing me, you're certainly not convincing me, and after this conversation I realize I should really make it a rule not to engage people who have a difficult time using proper grammar. So much for your college degree. Signing off.


Yes I get paid to sip margaritas during my paid time off, which was what we were talking about. You know what you should take away from this convo? That not everyone agrees with your scheming ways and there are some of us that have integrity in the way we conduct ourselves and our business. You sir, have no integrity based on your posts. Again, you probably need that $4 so you do you.


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## maxista

kaigor said:


> Yes I get paid to sip margaritas during my paid time off, which was what we were talking about. You know what you should take away from this convo? That not everyone agrees with your scheming ways and there are some of us that have integrity in the way we conduct ourselves and our business. You sir, have no integrity based on your posts. Again, you probably need that $4 so you do you.


Your understanding of integrity is misplaced and misguided.


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## maxista

Chef Aarron said:


> That's because we have no way of knowing why your parents failed so horribly at teaching you to have a moral compass.


Again, your understanding of right and wrong are failures. You're confused about who you should be outraged at.


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## observer

Time to cut out the personal attacks. No need to go there.


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## observer

If you don't like what a particular member writes, put them on ignore. Problem solved. This goes for everyone.


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## Fuzzyelvis

"had never went"

'Nuff said.


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## Ubernomics

Uberest said:


> I've made this point before -- there is one very large error in your thinking Maxsista. To the extent you inconvenience pax, so that the pax comes to think less of Uber, you are screwing your brother and sister drivers as well as your self. Why? Because that pax is less likely to use uber in the future if he has a bad/crooked experience with you. That reduces the rideshare market, meaning fewer pings for all over time. The pax talks to his buds, his fam, etc. You are hurting the MARKET. You are hurting OTHER DRIVERS in exchange for a short term feel good for you.


Only uber gets hurt


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## Ubernomics

gravelaine said:


> As a passenger, I am not surprised drivers are doing this. While I am, I would say, a good passenger, Uber has created this environment which was not necessary. For example, in Arizona which maxista apparently is from, Uber just lowered the rates down to 75 cents a mile. I received an email from Uber telling me how happy I should be for new lower _*affordable *_rates. I was baffled as the rates were already very affordable. I found out later from a driver, Uber sent drivers in Phoenix an email stating "Winter Slump" so they are lowering rates. Well, as a resident from Phoenix for two decades, I can tell you from January until April, it is the high season with all resorts and hotels being full (Phoenix Open, Barrett Jackson Show, Spring training).
> 
> Anyways, when a company is not being upfront or even lie with you, this is the environment it creates. Regarding the cancellation, some would say it is border line unethical, but the passenger as myself have control about our cancellation. If I see the driver drive the opposite direction, I just cancel. Of course, I could call yellow cab and get a 15 to 45 mins waiting estimate. In the end, ride share is still faster and cheaper. I just use Lyft now anyways as I am able to tip drivers.
> 
> Also, let me tell you about riders not knowing to tip. The knowledge about tips not being included in the fares is now known to most riders who take Uber, but instead they still rather not tip. It is like your Miranda Rights, everyone know they have them before the police even cite it.
> 
> My three cents.


Your just collecting your $5 in tips for all the drivers who got screwed out of a tip from that pax. If they complain Uber pays and we like that to! Call it karma.


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## galileo5

Ubernomics said:


> Your just collecting your $5 in tips for all the drivers who got screwed out of a tip from that pax. If they complain Uber pays and we like that to! Call it karma.


No, Uber doesn't pay. Uber takes the money away from you to pay the passenger back.


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## Uberedin

Has anyone heard from him? I'm curious to see if he has been deactivated. I have seen a lot of people saying that they have been. I know he probably has one of the highest cancellation rates. So I'm just wondering how things are going now.



maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


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## Sammy S

not good

most of the methods you described hurt the customers more than the company


who is your adversary in this battle?


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## ChortlingCrison

observer said:


> If you don't like what a particular member writes, put them on ignore. Problem solved. This goes for everyone.


I agree, but the only problem with ignore is that you can see the persons comments if a member (you don't have on ignore) quotes the comments of "the ignored".


----------



## pedro_pendukot

maxista said:


> First a little intro:
> I've been a full time Lyft/Uber driver for 9 months in Phoenix Arizona. In that time, I've completed over 3300 rides, over 300 cancellations, and averaged anywhere from $15-$25 an hour each week. I've also gone through two rate cuts on Uber, as well as an incentive cut on Lyft. Over time, I've developed ways to fight back against Uber's cuts and lies, and would like to share my techniques with you. I realize that many of you are already doing some of these things, however, I would like to share these in a cohesive and systematic way, so that we can work together to fight back and stand up to Uber's lies and tyranny.
> *
> 1. Quit.*
> The most obvious way to fight back is not to drive for Uber at all. I know that many of you have either started to focus on Lyft more, or perhaps other platforms, or have quit entirely. Some of you only drive during surges. These are effective methods for an individual, however, we all know that Uber still banks on a steady stream of naive and easily duped new recruits. While this solution seems attractive, it is not the only way to fight back. On busy nights in Phoenix, I will drive Lyft (and now FARE), and only turn on Uber in case of a surge.
> 
> *2. Keep all apps on at all times, and cancel, cancel, cancel.*
> I now keep all my apps on almost at all times. Before, I used to immediately turn off Lyft when I booked an Uber and vice versa. Now however, since Lyft's rates are so much better, I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee. What this achieves is two things that are good for us:
> 1. The rider has a bad experience and thus a poorer/poor view of Uber, which benefits us.
> 2. You are increasing your earning potential by racking up more cancellations while en route to or on a Lyft ride.
> In some cases, I can merely drive by the pin, and cover myself, and then I cancel and charge. However, it is better if the PAX cancels themselves, that way it's harder for them to blame the driver.
> 
> *3. Cancellations.*
> On Uber, we still have the option to "confirm arrival" before we are at the pick up spot. My trick is to tap that I've arrived anywhere from 1-3 minutes before I am actually there. Once I tap that I have arrived, I have a timer that I start which is set to 5 minutes 10 seconds (the extra ten seconds is to cover any margin of error). Once I arrive, I give the PAX 1-2 minutes to find me and get into the vehicle. If the PAX is not in the vehicle by then, I am driving away and cancelling immediately once the timer ends. Furthermore, if the rider does not contact me during that 1-2 minute window, I will ignore his subsequent texts and phone calls, and still cancel. Also, if I get pinged on Lyft, I drive away almost immediately and cancel once my timer lapses. The key thing here, is not to let the PAX's attempts to contact or complain deter you. If they are not in the car and ready to go within that 1-2 minute window, cancel. Time is money, and Uber clearly doesn't respect our time. Again, what this achieves is a bad experience for the rider, which is good of us, bad for Uber. Out of my 300+ cancellations, only two have been reversed and taken out of my totals.
> 
> Now, there are some exceptions to this. Obviously if the Surge is really high, anywhere from 2.0+, it's in your interest to get the PAX. So in that case, I call the PAX 2-3 minutes before arrival and confirm pick and set up a spot. During normal hours however, NEVER go out of your way to find the PAX; it is the PAX's job to find you. If they are not ready, they do not respect your time and it is your right, according to Uber's own policies, to cancel and charge.
> 
> I have tested this method, and for more than one week had an over 20% cancellation rate. Never was I sent any kind of warning from Uber.
> 
> *4. 1 Star Ratings for non-tippers.*
> The rating system, as we all know, is completely unfair, as is the lack of tipping on the app. Here's what I do. Tip = 5 stars. No Tip = 1 Star. That simple. I 1 Star the majority of my riders for the simple reason that they do not tip. Enough said.
> 
> *5. Discuss the rates and tips with your PAX*
> Once people are in my car, they are mine. I get to control the conversation and what gets talked about in most cases. Now, you have to be careful, but there are ways to steer conversations in that direction. Many passengers actually want to know more about this line of work. Tell them the raw truth. Let them know the real costs, the risks, the behavior of Uber, and talk about the lack of tips. If you feel that the PAX are receptive, give them your referral codes to Lyft. I have made over $1700 referring Uber PAX to Lyft and explained to them why Lyft is better.
> 
> *Some other thoughts:*
> _- A brief comment on the strikes._
> I'm all about the strikes, that said I don't see how they're going to work alone because there just isn't enough solidarity. I have thought of interesting ways of reaching out to other Uber drivers, however I'm not convinced that most will really care enough to join such a movement. In Phoenix, the notion of solidarity is completely foreign to most people.
> 
> _- On the ratings._
> Don't be afraid of getting bad ratings. The people you cancel on, will not be able to rate you. If they ask for their money back, in 99% of cases, it's a nuisance for Uber, not for us. Most PAX won't even bother to email Uber, since it's only $5. Those that do, may get it back and Uber will eat the cost.
> 
> _- On More Radical Techniques._
> Not ending the ride, or never actually picking up the PAX but starting the ride anyway. I do not recommend these techniques, but understand some of you might do them.
> 
> Feel free to add other ideas. I feel that if we collectively provide poor service and are aggressive about timeliness, it will force riders to understand that time is money. Having honest conversations with PAX about our issues is also a great way to get the word out, and if done properly, could potentially tip the scales in our favor.
> 
> I've been doing this stuff for months, and never once, have I received a warning from Uber. My cancellation rates keep increasing. They were once at 8% and are now closer to 15%-20%. Do not be afraid, we have the power. Use multiple apps to work the systems to your advantage. If you can tell that the Lyft ride is longer, drive by the Uber, cancel, charge, go get the Lyft. It's only $5 for them, it's our livelihood for us. Uber has clearly shown that they do not care about us at all, therefore, since the cost to the consumer is so little, I have no moral qualms behaving this way and encourage the rest of you to adopt these techniques if you haven't already.
> 
> Thanks, best.


----------



## pedro_pendukot

I like your post. These will surely help Uber competitors such as Lyft. At the moment, Lyft is not yet established here in Toronto. Once they are here, I would sign up and do your recommendations.

Cheers!


----------



## Flarpy

I think the OP is a genius. Excellent post. Especially this part:



> I will keep Lyft on the entire time, and in the event that I get pinged on Lyft while en route to an Uber, will change course and go to the Lyft instead. Now this is the important part. I DO NOT cancel the Uber. I keep the Uber rider on the hook and let them cancel on their own. Once the PAX realizes that I am not coming, he will text and call and I will not answer. Eventually he will cancel and if I am close he will be charged the cancellation fee.


Brilliant! Get paid twice.

Honestly, though, after a week of this silly gig I'm going to focus my energies on a real job and real career. Fighting with billion-dollar companies over chump change is not my idea of a pleasant life.


----------

