# Hybrid vs. Electric vs. Gas Vehicles



## runningpersona (Oct 22, 2021)

Hello. I have a dilemma. I want to buy a new vehicle to start a UBER business. What do you recommend to me? Hybrid, Electric, or Gas Vehicles?


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

runningpersona said:


> Hello. I have a dilemma. I want to buy a new vehicle to start a UBER business. What do you recommend to me? Hybrid, Electric, or Gas Vehicles?


I would recommend reading alot more of these pages to make sure you want to do that.
95% of people quit within the first year
Driving is a hard dirty job and its not for everyone


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## lifeofbright (Oct 22, 2021)

runningpersona said:


> Hello. I have a dilemma. I want to buy a new vehicle to start a UBER business. What do you recommend to me? Hybrid, Electric, or Gas Vehicles?


Electric all the way bro


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Cheap, an old used prius with 2 or more years before it is to old to drive for uber. cheapest cost per mile to own and operate.


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## FerengiBob (Nov 6, 2019)

Drive what you got for three months and see how you like RS. Learn your market and some hacks.

Some do well with used 100K+ miles vehicles. 

Consider spending $2K replacing the interior upholstery and seats.

I ran the numbers every way possible.

Narrowed it down to a Chevy Bolt (used) and a new Toyota Sienna Hybrid.

Bolt just would not work for me day to day, but I see it as a viable dedicated RS vehicle.

Compared to the Sienna, the only vehicle that came close was a Grand Caravan with 60K+ miles. There was relatively no depreciation on Toyota or Honda minivans and the gas mileage sucks.

Also, I could not get past that and the fact I was already giving up 60K miles of potential revenue buying used as well as any warranty. For example, how many thousands of times will those doors open?

Spent 40 years delivering supplies in my tourist market. Pax are no different to me...

To me it is a no brainer... Toyota Sienna Hybrid.

Max capacity, max gas mileage, max revenue in a family tourist market.

Alot of other reasons... comfort, security, push button convenience.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

runningpersona said:


> What do you recommend to me? Hybrid, Electric, or Gas Vehicles?


I would not consider a fully electric car for this stuff. The problem is that when it needs to be recharged, you're looking at too much downtime. If my gasoline powered car needs fuel, it's a five minute stop.

A hybrid could be just fine, because ride share can put a lot of miles on your vehicle in a short period of time.

BUT... I agree with the people who said "drive what you already have." At the very least until you see if you want to keep doing it. The dropout rate is very high in the first few months.

I realize that maybe the car you have now isn't eligible. But if it is, you should use it first.


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## FerengiBob (Nov 6, 2019)

I saw a comparison on electric vs hybrid/ICE

Electric on gave about a 20% cost savings.

You generally have to pay somebody for the electricity, though you will save in other areas of maintainance.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

After driving for 5 years and looking into numerous vehicle options, these are the conclusions I've drawn. This ended up being longer than I expected but might be valuable for you.

Like FerengiBob said, If you haven't already, drive rideshare for a little while with the car you have now or rent a car. Just to make sure you are ok doing this. This isn't a bad gig but it definitely isn't for everyone. Retention rates for rideshare drivers is quite low. There's a good reason for this. I've talked to many ex-drivers that didn't drive long because they ended up hating it. You need to enjoy driving and enjoy people. It's not to say you have to be a social butterfly but if you don't like the silly quirks and nuances of dealing with the general public, you're not going to be all that happy doing this. It requires dealing with people. Also, depending on where you live, there are likely much better options to make a living. Many of the ex-drivers stopped because they simply weren't making much. Some told me they were making less than minimum wage once they subtracted their expenses. I've driven two people from the Amazon warehouse who used to drive rideshare but make more at Amazon @ $18 an hour than what they were making driving. It's worth it to me because I enjoy driving and people. And I have a system to make a decent amount. But if you don't match that description, you may want to look elsewhere.

Lastly, realize that this gig has a limited lifespan. It's a matter of when, not if, autonomous vehicle take over the job of regular drivers. I'm 40 and definitely don't plan on driving rideshare until I retire. Although self-driving cars aren't exactly around the corner, they're on the horizon. Which means you may become obsolete in time. Don't make it a long term plan. It's a stop gap or side gig. Not a career.

So if you drive for a bit and decide you - *A.* like it and *B.* believe it's better than another job then I'd recommend that you don't buy a new car. All costs need to be considered, including depreciation. Depreciation costs are very high on a new car. You need to keep track of every penny in this gig. As I hope you're aware, the driver pays for everything. Depreciation, fuel, maintenance, repairs and additional rideshare insurance. You want to keep track of these in something like Quickbooks, or at least a spreadsheet both for tax purposes and to make sure you're actually making money.

Having said all of that, all three vehicle have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm not going to make an exhaustive list but the main advantages of electric is obviously the low cost of electricity compared to gas. And it's quiet which is nice. Hybrids get good mileage and usually have lower maintenance costs than regular gas. Regular gas vehicles are going to be less expensive for what you get. For example, you could probably get a decent Toyota Corolla for the same price as an older or higher mileage Corolla or Camry hybrid. Disadvantages of electric is charging and range anxiety. A very real thing when it's crazy busy with lots of surge but the car is telling you to recharge in the next 20 miles. Or you get a nice long ride but realize you can't make it because you don't have enough range. Electric and Hybrid have the potential to need battery replacements eventually which can cost several thousand dollars. Although statistically this is pretty rare. Hybrids are typically more expensive than their gas counterparts. Gas vehicles will require more maintenance.

I drive a Lexus hybrid. Essentially a fancy Toyota. I find it to be ideal because it gets good mileage, is quiet around town and when stopped because the engine shuts off, has lower operating costs because it doesn't have many of the items a regular car has. For example, the brakes don't wear out quickly, there are no drivebelts. There is no starter or alternator. No range anxiety of an electric car and lots of perks above a regular gas vehicle.

If you get a Hybrid, get a Toyota. I've heard too many accounts of people with Kia, Ford and Hyundai Hybrids not getting the advertised mileage. Toyota is the master of Hybrids. Their system is second to none in terms of efficiency and reliability. If you get electric, Telsa is the best obviously but be prepared to pay upwards of $25K minimum for a used Model 3. Closer to $30K if you want all wheel drive and/or the long range version. The alternatives such as the Leaf and Bolt are cheaper and can definitely work but have much lower range. If you go regular gas, I'd recommend a Toyota Camry or Honda Accord with the 4-cylinder. They get about the same mileage and cost about the same as their smaller counterparts such as the Corolla and Civic but are bigger and more comfortable.

Then there's the consideration of driving other services. You may consider a Toyota Sienna Hybrid so you can do XL. Or a Lexus Hybrid if you want to do Comfort and Premier. It's hard to crunch the numbers on those paths because you don't know the exact demand of the premium services in your area. So it's sort of a gamble. You might buy a more expensive and less efficient vehicle just to find that 95% of your rides are still the standard service because there's very little demand for XL, Comfort, Premier, Lux, etc. So that's something you'll have to decide. 

That's my 2 cents. Well, closer to 5 cents considering how much I rambled on


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

runningpersona said:


> Hello. I have a dilemma. I want to buy a new vehicle to start a UBER business. What do you recommend to me? Hybrid, Electric, or Gas Vehicles?


I have a Prius hybrid and like it because I can drive all day and don't have to worry about charging it.
I bought it brand new and it now has 370 thousand miles on it.
It has plenty of space for both passengers and luggage.
Other then scheduled maintenance I have had no extra costs.
I am a full time driver and love my Prius.
My second choice would be a hybrid Camary.


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## FerengiBob (Nov 6, 2019)

*My market:* Tourist, family predominant market with friendly airport logistics and decent roads.
*Personal:* Still employed in family business with small package delivery needs
*Experience: *30+ years supplying business in my area (probably 200K deliveries)
*Miscellaneous:* Local drivers doing XL gave various advice and tips
*Goal:* max pax, max revenue, max MPG, manage dead miles and expenses

*Numbers:*
Used ICE Sienna (Odyssey) with 60K miles vs new Hybrid Sienna was almost no depreciable difference in cost... maybe $10K
Based on my current numbers if 2/3 of the miles are RS... that would have been estimated $50K in revenue and net $30K before taxes.

_Welcome anyone to explain the hole in my reasoning._

Gaming it out to 100K miles... only a used 3/4 year old Caravan with 60K miles came close.

Soooooo glad I went Hybrid Sienna.

*Additional thoughts based on 300 rides:*
Having both X and XL is so efficient.
Thought I would run just 100% XL using my triple max approach but once you learn your market then the job gets easier.
Compliments on condition and horror stories like XL vehicles missing 3rd row seats... lol
Security... I only mostly XL and alot of airport hustling. Screened, sober, and almost zero random single pax pickups.
38 mpg...
I am patient, hustle for tips, give advice, and enjoy RS
Ride in comfort/style, because if I don't enjoy the ride, my pax will hate it.

*Option #2:*
ALMOST went with a Chevy Bolt at around $20K

*Future:*
Back in high school, I had a job at a teenage nightclub called the Magic Attic.
For the entire summer, I sat at the back door with a counter in my hand.
EVERY weekend, I had a new girlfriend.

Early on, it dawned on me, I could do the same with rideshare.
Every week, I could meet a family or group and cater to their travel needs.
They need eating, entertainment, etc...

*Final thought's:*
I am probably in this for three years.
Will consider doing the private side gig once I figure out the requirements.
I am not saying take short cuts, but make the platform work for you.
I don't have the energy or care about randomness from the algo's.

*Conclusion:*
Remember: Your market and mileage may vary (pun intended)
Why go X when the Toyota Sienna Hybrid gives you Corolla, Prius, and Camry like MPG


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

FerengiBob said:


> I saw a comparison on electric vs hybrid/ICE
> 
> Electric on gave about a 20% cost savings.
> 
> You generally have to pay somebody for the electricity, though you will save in other areas of maintainance.


Watch the EV pain this winter as The Brandon and Petey B Energy Show kicks off it’s first full heating season. Gasoline is doubling, but electric could be much worse. 

Hybrid may be cheaper.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

FerengiBob said:


> *My market:* Tourist, family predominant market with friendly airport logistics and decent roads.
> *Personal:* Still employed in family business with small package delivery needs
> *Experience: *30+ years supplying business in my area (probably 200K deliveries)
> *Miscellaneous:* Local drivers doing XL gave various advice and tips
> ...


Outstanding !!!
Great information !
This will help beginners reinvent the wheel !


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

losiglow said:


> After driving for 5 years and looking into numerous vehicle options, these are the conclusions I've drawn. This ended up being longer than I expected but might be valuable for you.
> 
> Like FerengiBob said, If you haven't already, drive rideshare for a little while with the car you have now or rent a car. Just to make sure you are ok doing this. This isn't a bad gig but it definitely isn't for everyone. Retention rates for rideshare drivers is quite low. There's a good reason for this. I've talked to many ex-drivers that didn't drive long because they ended up hating it. You need to enjoy driving and enjoy people. It's not to say you have to be a social butterfly but if you don't like the silly quirks and nuances of dealing with the general public, you're not going to be all that happy doing this. It requires dealing with people. Also, depending on where you live, there are likely much better options to make a living. Many of the ex-drivers stopped because they simply weren't making much. Some told me they were making less than minimum wage once they subtracted their expenses. I've driven two people from the Amazon warehouse who used to drive rideshare but make more at Amazon @ $18 an hour than what they were making driving. It's worth it to me because I enjoy driving and people. And I have a system to make a decent amount. But if you don't match that description, you may want to look elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Solid post


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Diamondraider said:


> Watch the EV pain this winter as The Brandon and Petey B Energy Show kicks off it’s first full heating season. Gasoline is doubling, but electric could be much worse.
> 
> Hybrid may be cheaper.


That is a good point !
My Prius gives me 50 mpg. so that helps obsorb the higher gas prices.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Diamondraider said:


> Solid post


Sure is !!


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## circuitsports (Apr 19, 2020)

If you can afford to buy an electric car you can afford to work on your resume.

Let me tell you how Uber Corp works - get you to work for as little as possible and carry the most cost, thats it.

No one should be starting a business to drive uber - that was a thing for a like a year back in 2014.

People from New York will jump in telling you how they make 100 zillion dollars per month and yet would rather post on a forum than make money or take all those vacations, lol.


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

FerengiBob said:


> *My market:* Tourist, family predominant market with friendly airport logistics and decent roads.
> *Personal:* Still employed in family business with small package delivery needs
> *Experience: *30+ years supplying business in my area (probably 200K deliveries)
> *Miscellaneous:* Local drivers doing XL gave various advice and tips
> ...


Please show your math.

Base price on a the Hybrid is $35k, close to $40k with taxes and paperwork.

A 2017 Odyssey is, in 2021 $28k.

You can put gas in the Odyssey for 5 years and still not be at the purchase price of the Hybrid.

Either you are not using the proper numbers, or are not projecting the costs properly.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

The Great Recession blots out memory of the previous 2 years, but a barrel of oil peaked at $147 and Nat gas was selling in the high teens (500%+ higher than recent levels). 

If we see a similar dynamic, a lot of vehicles are going to be repossessed (rideshare and self-drivers). 

We are seeing rampant inflation. Coupled with medical mandates, the economy is set to crash. The Fed announced today the start of tapering is imminent. Soon spending will drop, employers will contract, there will be a glut of used cars and a similar problem with the expensive apartment economy. Single family housing should hold up better than 2008. 

I believe we are already in the early innings of a blowout slaughter. I pray there is a proverbial “mercy rule” but i don’t see it. Solving Brandon leads to Brainless and her puppet masters.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

circuitsports said:


> If you can afford to buy an electric car you can afford to work on your resume.
> 
> Let me tell you how Uber Corp works - get you to work for as little as possible and carry the most cost, thats it.
> 
> ...


Yes I agree 2014 was the golden year for Uber.
I started in 2016 and I would pick up riders who used to work in that era.
The story's they would tell about surges were unbelievable.
Even in 2016 people were leaving middle management jobs to drive for uber.


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## FerengiBob (Nov 6, 2019)

NOXDriver said:


> Please show your math.
> 
> Base price on a the Hybrid is $35k, close to $40k with taxes and paperwork.
> 
> ...


OP inquired about "business" and I am all about learning and discussing and helping. Showing my numbers in hopes to increase MY knowledge.

Out the door my 2021 Sienna XLE hybrid was about $41k + $3.5k for warranty.

Similar priced ICE Sienna on AutoTrader is ballpark $28 to $30k with 50k miles. (Assuming it is available)

Simple question and math.

We will go on the low price ICE vs high end hybrid.

Published prices make it a $17k spread/hole

Lack of availability forced my hand.

Can I net $17k on those 50k miles?

Assume 2/3rds of those 50k are RS and the remaining are personal.

Based on my real numbers, in my market, during non peak season 33k RS miles equals $40K in revenue. Minus my real cost of est 15k ($.56) and we are at $25k before taxes.

Not sure how the tax man will treat me as far as write off and taxes but worst case it is breakeven. Not taking into account resale value, or nixing the 100k mile warranty. Part of the $.56 includes replacement tires, brakes, upholstery, and a miscellaneous category.

Please feel free to poke holes in my logic and math. I lurked for a year, spoke to drivers, and applied my local knowledge but certainly don't know everything.

40 years of dealing with containers and trucking companies and breaking them down for local deliveries.

Max capacity and you max revenue. Depreciation on vehicles is a myth.

Sienna hybrid is a perfect ride.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

FerengiBob said:


> OP inquired about "business" and I am all about learning and discussing and helping. Showing my numbers in hopes to increase MY knowledge.
> 
> Out the door my 2021 Sienna XLE hybrid was about $41k + $3.5k for warranty.
> 
> ...


I would completely leave out any tax considerations because you get the same deduction either way. Let's assume you drive 70k miles a year full time and there's a15k difference between the vehicle. Let's also assume the hybrid gets 30% better mileage. 

The benefit of the new hybrid is that I get 60k trouble free miles most likely which I'm going to value at 10 cents a mile (pulled out of my butt) or 6k more value in vehicle + $30 a week every week in gas savings or $1500 a year. So at roughly the 6 year mark I world break even. Not considering interest on the purchase but also not considering the place of mind in not buying a used car that might have been advised by someone else. 

In either case, personally I would do neither because I'm a half time driver, don't believe it's reasonable to project that I'll still be doing this in 6 years so I won't commit that much capital. I bought an ice 2013 Honda Odyssey with 210k miles, new tires and brakes for 8k, something I bought for cash and paid myself back in 11 weeks of earnings. There's just no way I would consider investing that much more in my business. If anything, my preference would have been to buy a 2k car like a Corolla and beat the living daylights out of it drop it off at the scrap yard and repeat but used car prices aren't cooperating right now.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> I would not consider a fully electric car for this stuff. The problem is that when it needs to be recharged, you're looking at too much downtime. If my gasoline powered car needs fuel, it's a five minute stop.


Gave your post a thumbs up, but it depends too on how many miles per day put in driving. A Chevy Bolt can pull close to 250 miles before needing a recharge.



FerengiBob said:


> You generally have to pay somebody for the electricity, though you will save in other areas of maintainance.


Yes, but you also have to pay somebody for gasoline, and charging overnight at discounted utility rates costs a fraction of gas.

-----------------------
OP, I drive electric, but as mentioned it's not for everyone. But if you do veer toward electric the Chevy Bolt is a proven winner for RS. Small and maneuverable, but spacious. There is a battery recall in effect right now for all Bolts, but one can use that to their advantage. Look for a used Bolt, even as old as a 2017, with less than 100K miles. If you can net for under 20K, maybe even 15K, payments would be relatively low. Chevy is replacing the batteries in all these cars, so you would get a new battery (perhaps in the next few months or so) with a full 8 year warranty. In the meantime their is a charging profile you could employ to avoid a fire (a few Bolts have caught fire due to a faulty battery).


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

@FerengiBob Depreciation on vehicles with CVT transmissions while trying to use them for Rideshare is definitely not a myth. A quick case in point is a friend of mine bought a used Infinity QX60 with 30k miles on it and ran it up to 90k before it needed a new transmission. With that being said a new one from the dealer was approximately $5000. I see you bought an extended warranty, you better pray your transmission fails during that period of time or your going down the same road. It does matter if it wears the Toyota name badge CVT transmissions are only expected to last about 100k miles before needing to be replaced and doing rideshare is extreme for any vehicle out there. I say you would have been better off with a Prius because as others have stated they are proven to go 300 plus thousand miles with no major repairs needed. Camry's and Corolla's switched to CVT transmission in 2016 so the older ones will more than likely outlast their predecessors. You don't have to take my word for it see here.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

_Tron_ said:


> Gave your post a thumbs up, but it depends too on how many miles per day put in driving. A Chevy Bolt can pull close to 250 miles before needing a recharge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's good for me is not what's good for everyone.
I think the bolt is fine as it's all based on personal preference.
I would say test drive both the bolt and the Prius and decide for yourself.


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## gtrplayingman (Sep 15, 2014)

It depends on your market.
I drive in CT, where business is non-stop, and in a couple years (if I'm still here) upgrading to a electric car would be nice.
There's free or cheap chargers everywhere. Check around, there are maps online to see how many chargers are near you depending on the make of car you want.
Uber helps w/ discounts on the car and charging networks. And supposedly if it's an Uber Green, you get higher fee income. (Would a Bolt EUV count as a SUV, meaning even higher fee income?)

That's the good news.
One issue of buying an EV is can you charge it at home? If you live in an apartment, maybe not. If you have to park on the street or something, maybe not. You'll wanna start every day with the battery at 100%.

If this doesn't work, get a Prius. The yellow cabs I see in NYC are mostly Priuses or Honda Civics, so...there's that.
Maintenance is a big issue. Supposedly EVs never require maintenance of any kind, but I for one am skeptical about that. When you set up your budget to determine how much you have to drive every working day, you'll want to set a budget for maintenance - and with an EV, for a possible battery replacement down the road. It's about 10% of my daily quota (including gas).

I hope this helped. Good luck.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

gtrplayingman said:


> It depends on your market.
> I drive in CT, where business is non-stop, and in a couple years (if I'm still here) upgrading to a electric car would be nice.
> There's free or cheap chargers everywhere. Check around, there are maps online to see how many chargers are near you depending on the make of car you want.
> Uber helps w/ discounts on the car and charging networks. And supposedly if it's an Uber Green, you get higher fee income. (Would a Bolt EUV count as a SUV, meaning even higher fee income?)
> ...


Good advice and info !!!
There are a lot of variables that go into a vehicle selection.
If your current vehicle has 4 doors and 12 years or newer use that at first.
See if you like Rideshare then look into purchasing one.
My 2009 Camary had 180 thousand on it my first year of driving before I bought my Prius.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

runningpersona said:


> Hello. I have a dilemma. I want to buy a new vehicle to start a UBER business. What do you recommend to me? Hybrid, Electric, or Gas Vehicles?


The single best piece of advice I can give you is buy the MOST EXPENSIVE, brand new vehicle available, that qualifies for UberX only!
Only then, will you be on the road to riches.
You are very, very welcome! 👍


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## FerengiBob (Nov 6, 2019)

EV technology, cost, and access to chargers will improve.

Just look at some of the Ford and VW mid size SUV offerings.

Alot of neat stuff on the horizon.

A few months ago VW had free charging for a year at certain locations if my choice had been the ID4. Sadly, closest one to me was 70 miles away.

Are there any tax incentives in your state or federally for EV? Some brands do not qualify.

What can you make in your market?

Due diligence is a necessity.

We can all count pennies, but you will live every one of those hours and miles.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> The single best piece of advice I can give you is buy the MOST EXPENSIVE, brand new vehicle available, that qualifies for UberX only!
> Only then, will you be on the road to riches.
> You are very, very welcome! 👍





FerengiBob said:


> EV technology, cost, and access to chargers will improve.
> 
> Just look at some of the Ford and VW mid size SUV offerings.
> 
> ...


I see Tesla charging stations in malls I frequent.
I can't believe how long these drivers plug in and sit in there cars.
Until they can get chargers that work like gas pumps I am staying with hybrids.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> Gave your post a thumbs up, but it depends too on how many miles per day put in driving. A Chevy Bolt can pull close to 250 miles before needing a recharge.


A thumbs up for you too. 

How long does it take to recharge a Chevy Bolt when it needs one?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> A thumbs up for you too.
> 
> How long does it take to recharge a Chevy Bolt when it needs one?


A Prius hybrid is about 5 thousand less then a Bolt.
That has to enter the equation.
I know my Prius has 371 thousand miles on it.
I'm not sure of the Longevity of the Bolt.
Just a few more variables to consider.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Jimmy, I had a 2017 4th gen Prius before the EV, and it was the best car I ever owned. Unless you need XL it is the perfect RS car. Going full electric at this stage is ideal only for certain circumstances. For me, I wanted to go electric badly, and did Uber to help pay for the car. But in the 75K miles I've put on a Bolt it has turned out to have fantastic cost of ownership numbers.



Christinebitg said:


> How long does it take to recharge a Chevy Bolt when it needs one?


That's where the Bolt is lagging behind virtually all EVs at this point. 45 minutes to put a hundred miles back at a fast charger (Chevy is still using 2017 technology even on 2022 Bolts). I have such a long commute to my driving locale that I almost always do one charge session at least per day. But it's not a stress point. The opposite. I get out of the car, eat, shop, relax.... and then hit it again. Works for me. Of course A newer Tesla on a V3 Supercharger can do in 10-15 minutes what it takes me way over an hour to do.

Of course either car can fully charge overnight in the garage on a proper 240VAC circuit.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

_Tron_ said:


> Jimmy, I had a 2017 4th gen Prius before the EV, and it was the best car I ever owned. Unless you need XL it is the perfect RS car. Going full electric at this stage is ideal only for certain circumstances. For me, I wanted to go electric badly, and did Uber to help pay for the car. But in the 75K miles I've put on a Bolt it has turned out to have fantastic cost of ownership numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm glad to hear that your happy with your Bolt.
It looks like the Prius and Bolt are both good Rideshare vehicles.


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## gtrplayingman (Sep 15, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> A Prius hybrid is about 5 thousand less then a Bolt.
> That has to enter the equation.
> I know my Prius has 371 thousand miles on it.
> I'm not sure of the Longevity of the Bolt.
> Just a few more variables to consider.


Well, over the course of the rideshare vehicle's 10 year tenure, you'll spend that $5K on gas, gas, more gas, oil changes, transmission fluids...and service. I've had the exhaust and catalytic converter on my Honda Fit replaced, and service on the fuel lines and belts replaced and stuff. 
It's all cost me much more than $5K.
None of that sht exists on the Bolt.
Now EV motors will outlast any gas transmission - a million miles is a typical prediction, maybe 2 million. The engine is that and the battery, with a coolant system to regulate the temperature. You'll spend on brakes and public charging during the tenure of your vehicle unless something goes wrong with the battery...which would suck, but it's not as common a thing as the online "news" would have you believe.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

gtrplayingman said:


> Well, over the course of the rideshare vehicle's 10 year tenure, you'll spend that $5K on gas, gas, more gas, oil changes, transmission fluids...and service. I've had the exhaust and catalytic converter on my Honda Fit replaced, and service on the fuel lines and belts replaced and stuff.
> It's all cost me much more than $5K.
> None of that sht exists on the Bolt.
> Now EV motors will outlast any gas transmission - a million miles is a typical prediction, maybe 2 million. The engine is that and the battery, with a coolant system to regulate the temperature. You'll spend on brakes and public charging during the tenure of your vehicle unless something goes wrong with the battery...which would suck, but it's not as common a thing as the online "news" would have you believe.


Very informative !!


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> 45 minutes to put a hundred miles back at a fast charger


And that's on a fast charger, not the standard type, right?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

gtrplayingman said:


> None of that sht exists on the Bolt.
> Now EV motors will outlast any gas transmission - a million miles is a typical prediction, maybe 2 million.


That's the electric motor. Any idea how long the battery will last? (Thanks in advance.)


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> And that's on a fast charger, not the standard type, right?


Correct.


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> That's the electric motor. Any idea how long the battery will last? (Thanks in advance.)





Christinebitg said:


> That's the electric motor. Any idea how long the battery will last? (Thanks in advance.)


I wonder if they come with fire insurance or with that need to be a future regulation for owning one? Good watch here:


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

TX Uber Ant said:


> I wonder if they come with fire insurance or with that need to be a future regulation for owning one?


If it damages the car, that's covered by collision or comprehensive coverage, depending on what caused the fire.

If the fire causes damage to someone else's property, that's covered by liability coverage.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

All kinds of advice. I will give up a few cents per mile in costs for my comfort. I start with a vehicle I am comfortable in, my butt will be in there 8-10 hours at a time or more I want to be comfortable. My comfort is worth the possible extra cost.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> I see Tesla charging stations in malls I frequent.
> I can't believe how long these drivers plug in and sit in there cars.
> Until they can get chargers that work like gas pumps I am staying with hybrids.


So what does it take you, 6 or 7 minutes to fill up vs. maybe 20 minutes to charge up. 

Also, if you have to use a Tesla Supercharger all the time, you are doing it wrong, you won't save much money. Electricity costs me 10.5 cents per KwH at home which gets me at least 3 miles vs. 25 cents per KwH at a supercharger. I take 30 seconds to plug in at night, would start out with a full tank every day. That full tank should get me 250 miles before I need to recharge so yes, range anxiety could be an issue but in most cases I wouldn't spend a lot of time filling up. Still not going to let dirty paxholes in my EV!


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

FLKeys said:


> All kinds of advice. I will give up a few cents per mile in costs for my comfort. I start with a vehicle I am comfortable in, my butt will be in there 8-10 hours at a time or more I want to be comfortable. My comfort is worth the possible extra cost.


Totally and I want luggage space and passenger comfort for 4 full size adults.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Also, if you have to use a Tesla Supercharger all the time, you are doing it wrong, you won't save much money. Electricity costs me 10.5 cents per KwH at home which gets me at least 3 miles vs. 25 cents per KwH at a supercharger.


One issue not mentioned so far in this thread:

Many states, perhaps a majority of them, now have an electric vehicle surcharge when you renew the registration for the car. That's because fully electric (non-hybrid) cars aren't paying road use taxes that are applied to every gallon of gasoline sold.

The Original Poster might want to find out if that tax exists in his State.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> One issue not mentioned so far in this thread:
> 
> Many states, perhaps a majority of them, now have an electric vehicle surcharge when you renew the registration for the car. That's because fully electric (non-hybrid) cars aren't paying road use taxes that are applied to every gallon of gasoline sold.
> 
> The Original Poster might want to find out if that tax exists in his State.


Quite right, it might well be a majority of states by now. I recall reading somewhere that they vary from $75 to $250 per vehicle per year.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Just a follow up, used car prices are still so high now that I sold my tesla. Bought it in June for roughly 52.5k including taxes, carvana is picking it up on Monday for 56,944 and I have a new one on order for early February for 54.5k. Basically making 2k and had a free car to drive for 5 months in exchange for giving it up for 3 months. If I'm really lucky the federal tax credit will pass and I'll get 7.5k extra. It makes no sense to me but I'm taking the money and running.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

There is some bad information in here. First is to never buy new if you want to maximize your profits. The math has been done a thousand times and the equation doesnt change because you want it to.

Second, the most important attribute a car has is its range. If you are doing it right, the cost of gas is relatively small compared to your earnings. My first car was a gas guzzler with a 300ish mile rideshare range When gas was 2.50, It wasn't the price of the gas that was the problem, rather how often I had to fill. (even with that gas guzzler, I only netted 10% less than my hybrid. )The logistics of filling your tank, finding a station, waiting in line, etc, not being able to take a trip because you need to refill, needing to turn off the app because you are filling up, etc. Those things kill your earnings.

My hybrid goes nearly 600 miles on a tank. Electric is a terrible idea unless you are a surge driver in the city and can drive a whole shift without a recharge. Used electrics are still expensive and have horrible range. New electrics still have horrible range and cost too much. 

Finally, regarding XL. Unless you live in a resort town, the majority of rides are X. Full stop. And even if you do get occasional XL pings, the pickups are on average much farther. There is much more bullshit with XL. Driving groups is much more draining than quiet commuters.

Last but not least is taxes. I netted about $1/mi when I was doing this full time. My tax situation at the end of the year, due to the number of miles I drove, was that I paid almost zero taxes. (There was some, but very little.) If you are an XL "big fish" and wait around for XL trips so you can maximize profits, your tax situation will be worse because you will be writing off less miles. 

Everything points to a used hybrid being the best way to go, except for very specialized situations.


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## FerengiBob (Nov 6, 2019)

The miles driven never really change that much even running XL (you just wait longer)

Max the pax capacity, the revenue, the mpg, and cut out dead miles.

Simple business formula I have run for 30 years in a delivery business.

Talk to truck drivers.

Company men talk $ per hour while the trucking company maxes capacity of the van.

O/O talk in $ per mile.

You are an O/O so know your market, test, and know your numbers

About 1k rides and squeeze an extra $.10 per mile ( off season tourist market numbers).


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

OldBay said:


> First is to never buy new if you want to maximize your profits. The math has been done a thousand times and the equation doesnt change because you want it to.


I completely agree. A brand new car is never a good choice from a financial standpoint. No matter how much the Original Poster would like to create rationalizations for it.

The tiny potential savings in maintenance costs are nowhere near what the decrease in value is. A good late model, low mileage vehicle is *always* the best choice, whether for ridesharing or just for personal use.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> I completely agree. A brand new car is never a good choice from a financial standpoint. No matter how much the Original Poster would like to create rationalizations for it.
> 
> The tiny potential savings in maintenance costs are nowhere near what the decrease in value is. A good late model, low mileage vehicle is *always* the best choice, whether for ridesharing or just for personal use.


I am the rare exception.
I bought my Prius brand new in 2017.
It currently has 385 thousand miles.
It's paid off and can do anything a car with half as many miles can do.


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## FerengiBob (Nov 6, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> I completely agree. A brand new car is never a good choice from a financial standpoint. No matter how much the Original Poster would like to create rationalizations for it.
> 
> The tiny potential savings in maintenance costs are nowhere near what the decrease in value is. A good late model, low mileage vehicle is *always* the best choice, whether for ridesharing or just for personal use.


In reality, the first 50K miles of mixed use will bring me $40K gross in revenue driving a Hybrid Sienna.

Not trying to be dismissive, but how does that figure into calculations?

In the end, I could not answer the question of why give up miles and warranty to gain $10K at purchase?


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

FerengiBob said:


> In reality, the first 50K miles of mixed use will bring me $40K gross in revenue driving a Hybrid Sienna.
> 
> Not trying to be dismissive, but how does that figure into calculations?
> 
> In the end, I could not answer the question of why give up miles and warranty to gain $10K at purchase?


But let me ask you this. Assuming you could buy a used one with 20K miles on it for 5 or 6K less, wouldn't that still be a better deal and give you enough time under warrenty if there was an issue?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Jimmy44 said:


> I am the rare exception.
> I bought my Prius brand new in 2017.
> It currently has 385 thousand miles.
> It's paid off and can do anything a car with half as many miles can do.


It sounds like it's giving you great results! 

Those great results are the best reason for buying a good used car. I'm not surprised -- Toyota has a great reputation for reliability.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> But let me ask you this. Assuming you could buy a used one with 20K miles on it for 5 or 6K less, wouldn't that still be a better deal and give you enough time under warrenty if there was an issue?


Let me do you one better than that.

Some years ago, my Significant Other wanted to buy an Audi A4 convertible. They found one that was a year old, with about 4,000 miles on it. It was not a demo model.

It cost *$12,000* less than a brand new one. For that price difference, not getting to pick out to color looked trivial.

@FerengiBob
"In the end, I could not answer the question of why give up miles and warranty to gain $10K at purchase?"

Those 4,000 miles, and $12,000 lower purchase price more than justified any differences in the deal. Plus the factory warranty was still in effect.

If you don't have confidence in the car's reliability, buy a different model.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> It sounds like it's giving you great results!
> 
> Those great results are the best reason for buying a good used car. I'm not surprised -- Toyota has a great reputation for reliability.


My 2009 Camary has 280 thousand and my Prius has 385 thousand.
There both still going strong.


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## Omar driving (Dec 5, 2021)

I wish I had hybrid car. my Honda van is bad on gas


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Omar driving said:


> I wish I had hybrid car. my Honda van is bad on gas


When I decided to drive full time in 2017 I bought my brand new Prius.
The gas mileage and the IRS mileage deduction made it the best business decision I could have made.


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## Omar driving (Dec 5, 2021)

Jimmy44 said:


> When I decided to drive full time in 2017 I bought my brand new Prius.
> The gas mileage and the IRS mileage deduction made it the best business decision I could have made.


When I bought my van hybrid vans were not available


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Omar driving said:


> When I bought my van hybrid vans were not available


Totally understandable !
We are all constantly making plans to purchase our next vehicle.
I know with 385 thousand miles my Prius could go at any moment.
I am ready for that reality.


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## JuanMoreTime (Jan 25, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> I have a Prius hybrid and like it because I can drive all day and don't have to worry about charging it.
> I bought it brand new and it now has 370 thousand miles on it.
> It has plenty of space for both passengers and luggage.
> Other then scheduled maintenance I have had no extra costs.
> ...


I recently traded my previous car in on a 2014 Camry Hybrid with 121k and immaculate maintenance records. I was initially looking for a Prius, but they're hard to find in my market and the redhats in the lifted pickups enjoy giving Prius drivers a hard time. The Camry Hybrid gets the same mileage but is almost indistinguishable from a "regular" sedan. And maybe it's just because I'm coming from a Ford Fiesta, but I'm astounded by how much space there is for both pax and cargo.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

JuanMoreTime said:


> I recently traded my previous car in on a 2014 Camry Hybrid with 121k and immaculate maintenance records. I was initially looking for a Prius, but they're hard to find in my market and the redhats in the lifted pickups enjoy giving Prius drivers a hard time. The Camry Hybrid gets the same mileage but is almost indistinguishable from a "regular" sedan. And maybe it's just because I'm coming from a Ford Fiesta, but I'm astounded by how much space there is for both pax and cargo.


Camrys are great cars.
They do have lots of passenger room and luggage room.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> I have a Prius hybrid and like it because I can drive all day and don't have to worry about charging it.
> I bought it brand new and it now has 370 thousand miles on it.
> It has plenty of space for both passengers and luggage.
> Other then scheduled maintenance I have had no extra costs.
> ...


Update my Prius now has 434,372 miles.


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