# Bigger Vehicle? Get 6hr-8hr Blocks



## Solo1 (Apr 18, 2017)

I thought this was very interesting .... If I could deliver in a van to get an 8 hr block, I would try it out ... Especially if it was a reserved offer.


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## nighthawk398 (Jul 21, 2015)

Big SUV can hold about as much as a van


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

Interested in hearing about this as it rolls out -- I have a midsize SUV which isn't van sized, but it holds a far sight more than the Mustang convertible and the Camaro I saw at DCH4 this weekend.

I'd do one 6-8 hr block on weekends, it's less mileage and variability (having to allot time to run back to the warehouse between blocks).


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Solo1 said:


> I thought this was very interesting .... If I could deliver in a van to get an 8 hr block, I would try it out ... Especially if it was a reserved offer.


If a reliable full time gig is what you want on a daily basis, then why aren't you working for one of the numerous independent contractors delivering flex/prime/fresh at the WHs?

You wouldn't be responsible for gas or vehicle maintenance. And you'd also have benefits like health care etc. lmao


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## aflexdriver (Jul 15, 2016)

I did plenty of 8-hour blocks last summer with my Corolla 97.
That was a good glitch, easy money.


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## Solo1 (Apr 18, 2017)

Cynergie said:


> If a reliable full time gig is what you want on a daily basis, then why aren't you working for one of the numerous independent contractors delivering flex/prime/fresh at the WHs?
> 
> You wouldn't be responsible for gas or vehicle maintenance. And you'd also have benefits like health care etc. lmao


No one said anything about a full time gig ... The thread is about longer blocks .


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

that's the point. OP said this:
"..._If I could deliver in a van to get an 8 hr block, I would try it out ... Especially if it was a reserved offer_....."

If you're wanting to upgrade your vehicle to SUV/van size on the premise of trying to get longer 6hr-8hr blocks, then you're really looking to work a full hour work day by default....

In which case, you can make a guaranteed 6hr-8hr block working for the numerous ICs at the WHs. They have FT and flexible PT (4hr-6hr shifts) depending on WH demand in your area.

And you're not driving your own vehicle or paying the gas expense. lol

edit: and oh yes...once you commit as a flex driver to those longer blocks (especially the 8hr ones) you BETTER deliver over 98% of the packages you get on your vehicle. Because Amazon will raise the stakes on you where operational risk is concerned i.e. begin to treat you more like one of their independent ICs (despite the fact you lack a fleet of at least 4 other drivers under you).

That means you're going to be increasingly liable for concessions and the number of packages you may need to bring back due to BC/NSL/UTA. The number of packages you return each route do count against you.

And good luck if you get an entire van load of unrelated sequences which take you FAR AND WIDE to residences/business that are spread FAR APART in several cities/neighborhoods.

I have a medium sized sedan. Last week, I lucked out with an ENTIRE SORT of packages averaging 1-2 packages per sequence. Total of 25 packages. To business and apt complexes. That were geographically spread as far apart from the Standford/Berkeley area, to south in Milpitas, to Campbell, to Santa Clara, to San Jose. Block time was 2p - 6p for $100.

LMFAO

Oh my tender arse. I would've never believed being stranded in the parking lot called the freeway at height of rush hour could be so painful. Will be declining that particular block time in that area in the future.

Note: if you're highly efficient in delivering your packages before the end of a block, Amazon rewards drivers by INCREASING the number of packages on that route. So the next poor SOB driver who gets that route, will probably get like double the number of packages to deliver in the same amount of time. lmao

Longer blocks are nice. And so is the gas wasted idling in traffic. And quality of life cost if you're family oriented and happen to run over your allotted block time. In which case you should be working for a logistics IC. At least you'd get benefits.

Just something to consider.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

He wasn't implying he was going to get a van he was saying if he had one he would consider it. 

I would hope no one is dumb enough to get a new car for this gig


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## Placebo17 (Jan 20, 2017)

Cynergie said:


> If a reliable full time gig is what you want on a daily basis, then why aren't you working for one of the numerous independent contractors delivering flex/prime/fresh at the WHs?
> 
> You wouldn't be responsible for gas or vehicle maintenance. And you'd also have benefits like health care etc. lmao


Ummmm... because they only pay $12 an hour and you have to work 10 hour shifts 4 days a week.


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## uberer2016 (Oct 16, 2016)

How long does it take to finish an 8-hour block? If it takes around 7 hours, then I'd rather just stick with 3-4 hr blocks and getting an hour free time. I don't think I could deliver for 8 hours in a row in this heat. Usually for 3 or 4 hr blocks, you get 2 to 3 hours downtime to rest before you have to do another block.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

8 hr blocks does not mean Full Time Job. I worked 8 hrs of Flex on Saturday and 6 hrs on Sunday..... but it's nowhere close to my full time job.

And who's screwing around for 2-3 hours between blocks? I try to leave 30 minutes on the schedule in case a block runs long or I hit traffic heading back to the warehouse, but there's no lounging around between blocks for me. And I'm old, fat, and out of shape!


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## Solo1 (Apr 18, 2017)

uberer2016 said:


> I don't think I could deliver for 8 hours in a row in this heat. Usually for 3 or 4 hr blocks, you get 2 to 3 hours downtime to rest before you have to do another block.


Remember you can take until 9pm to deliver, do if you want to stop for an hour or so, it's up to you ... I would try it out just so you know you have that eight hrs in ... Not wasting time fishing.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Placebo17 said:


> Ummmm... because they only pay $12 an hour and you have to work 10 hour shifts 4 days a week.


Then I guess the driver pay is state/WH hub and city/region dependent. The SF & Silicon Valley areas, being the highest cost of living areas in the state & country, appear to have the highest hourly pay. Lowest I've seen n00bs start at is $15 to $16 and double that with OT. Some contractors offer anywhere from $160/day - $195/day. And all the overtime you can handle at these WHs because of the insane demand on the peninsula. The PT evening/night shifts pay the most because of the PM hours. I've seen shifts ranging from 5pm to 10pm on a weekly basis.



uberer2016 said:


> How long does it take to finish an 8-hour block? If it takes around 7 hours, then I'd rather just stick with 3-4 hr blocks and getting an hour free time. I don't think I could deliver for 8 hours in a row in this heat. Usually for 3 or 4 hr blocks, you get 2 to 3 hours downtime to rest before you have to do another block.


A better metric (which Amazon and the IC driver companies use) is the number of packages you deliver per hour. Typically this number is 20 to 25 packages per hour, regardless of what sequence you're in. If you stick close to that metric, you can deliver some 180 - 200 packages in a full time 8 hr to 9 hr day with lunch break. This is if you're highly efficient on route and DON'T MAKE HABIT CALLING CS AND/OR CUSTOMER. Some contractors in Bay area will pay an extra 1-2 hr per day in OT based on Amazon daily demand (i.e. you can get guaranteed hours OT at the highest demand WH that do Prime). Any package overflow that IC drivers can't deliver, automatically roll over to the Flex drivers.

I've got a mid sized sedan and I use that metric on flex with package count. Typically finish my route in 1 hr - 2 hr for a 3 hr block. Typically 1.5 hr - 2.5 hr for 4 hour block. This is after factoring some 20-30 mins travelling to the first stop from the WH. Amazon turns on the clock the moment you roll out of the WH with its packages to the final minute of that block hour. So that 8 hr block factors the time it takes you arrive at your first stop, do all stops and potentially the distance from last stop to WH (in case you need to return packages). What you do in terms of route efficiency to shorten that 8 hr delivery run from the first stop onwards, is completely up to you. So if you took too long a lunch, running behind because you called CS/customer when you didn't have to, had to return packages to the WH for BC/NSL/UTA/damage reasons, and/or bust the 9 pm delivery time, then that will count against you.


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## Placebo17 (Jan 20, 2017)

Cynergie said:


> Then I guess the driver pay is state/WH hub and city/region dependent. The SF & Silicon Valley areas, being the highest cost of living areas in the state & country, appear to have the highest hourly pay. Lowest I've seen n00bs start at is $15 to $16 and double that with OT. Some contractors offer anywhere from $160/day - $195/day. And all the overtime you can handle at these WHs because of the insane demand on the peninsula. The PT evening/night shifts pay the most because of the PM hours. I've seen shifts ranging from 5pm to 10pm on a weekly basis.


Lowest is $15 to $16 with van + gas + benefits for doing the same thing as Flex? Why are you doing Flex then?


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

I wasn't doing Flex for a while. Live in Sac but was working for IC courier in Bay area on FT basis for a while. Great pay especially in the OT bonuses for daily FT shift. But had to give it up because of early AM start. Was getting up at 4 am every morning just to get into Bay area to start the 6:30am shift every day + weekends.

If you do the math working a $16/hr wage, you break even in 9 hrs i.e. 8 hrs regular + 1 hr OT = $20/hr wage that the typical bay area SF driver makes. If you get done early, that's free time to make even more money with Uber/Lyft.

So yes, if you want longer shifts (i.e. CONSISTENT WORK AT 6-8hrs+ a day) with Flex on a consistent basis, you're better off working with one of the ICs. Because unlike Flex, you don't have to pay to drive (or God forbid RENT) a larger vehicle/van, worry about operational risk (just keep your concessions low) or any O&M/insurance/milage for said vehicle, or gas. And unlike Flex, you have full health care benefits, with a guarantee merit raise based on your job performance. A couple vet drivers I met who drove for the company for over a year, were making $23+ base before OT. But again that's the Bay area. It sounds like the rates in your region aren't that high. What city do you operate in?


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## getawaycar (Jul 10, 2017)

Doesn't make sense to buy a larger vehicle just for Flex but if you happen to be in the market for another car anyway then go for it. But I would never drive a van or large SUV for this gig; the terrible gas mileage eats too much into your pay. Best kind of car is small SUV or hatchback - more cargo room plus good mpg. And its nice to have the extra cargo area for non-Flex/personal use.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

Cynergie said:


> I've got a mid sized sedan and I use that metric on flex with package count. Typically finish my route in 1 hr - 2 hr for a 3 hr block. Typically 1.5 hr - 2.5 hr for 4 hour block.


So you're one of the overachievers we have to thank for the advent of all the 2.5 and 3.5 hour blocks. You think Amazon doesn't track metrics on routes that get finished way under the estimated time? At least have a heart and leave the last delivery on the "use photo" screen while you're driving back home, it won't mess up finishing the delivery and you can pad the delivery time by a half hour or so.



getawaycar said:


> Best kind of car is small SUV or hatchback - more cargo room plus good mpg. And its nice to have the extra cargo area for non-Flex/personal use.


And just as important -- for ease of access. Fold down seats let me lay out all the packages in sections with the labels visible, and it takes basically no extra time loading up or finding the next stop. I feel for the guys trying to cram stuff in their small sedans in some kind of logical order and remembering which numbers are where.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

jester121 said:


> So you're one of the overachievers we have to thank for the advent of all the 2.5 and 3.5 hour blocks. You think Amazon doesn't track metrics on routes that get finished way under the estimated time? At least have a heart and leave the last delivery on the "use photo" screen while you're driving back home, it won't mess up finishing the delivery and you can pad the delivery time by a half hour or so.
> 
> And just as important -- for ease of access. Fold down seats let me lay out all the packages in sections with the labels visible, and it takes basically no extra time loading up or finding the next stop. I feel for the guys trying to cram stuff in their small sedans in some kind of logical order and remembering which numbers are where.


Painfully blunt candor

This is why I love you jester121


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

It's kind of tongue in cheek, but holy smokes people, let's be smart about this....


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## Solo1 (Apr 18, 2017)

jester121 said:


> It's kind of tongue in cheek, but holy smokes people, let's be smart about this....


Elaborate please.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

If you've raced through your last (or only) block of the day, setting another record finishing a 4 hour logistics block in 51 minutes, you don't _technically_ have to swipe to mark the last package delivered right when you snap the Front Door photo. We know that Amazon uses their metrics to see how long block X should take if you had Y packages on weekday Z. So doing the Speedy Gonzales (are we even allowed to say that nowadays? I feel like I'm triggering someone) routine is just going to get that juicy 4 hour block cut down to a 2.5 hour block next week, once they see a trend that all drivers finish it at least 90 minutes early.

Where do y'all think these half hour blocks came from? Amazon ran database queries and saw they could slice 20-30% off their labor cost with the stroke of a pen, and delivery rates wouldn't suffer. No wonder there are few 4 hour blocks, no one's been taking 4 hours to do the blocks!

So what I'm saying is, one could successfully skew the delivery time data back in a more favorable direction, simply by "forgetting" to finish the block right away..... if one was so inclined. The app will let you finish a block while sitting on the toilet back at your house, if you want to, as long as it's before 9pm.

(And yes, I know it doesn't matter for crap if one or ten or even 100 of us do this... but it makes me feel good to think I _might _be sticking it to The Man.)


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

jester121 said:


> If you've raced through your last (or only) block of the day, setting another record finishing a 4 hour logistics block in 51 minutes, you don't _technically_ have to swipe to mark the last package delivered right when you snap the Front Door photo. We know that Amazon uses their metrics to see how long block X should take if you had Y packages on weekday Z. So doing the Speedy Gonzales (are we even allowed to say that nowadays? I feel like I'm triggering someone) routine is just going to get that juicy 4 hour block cut down to a 2.5 hour block next week, once they see a trend that all drivers finish it at least 90 minutes early.
> 
> Where do y'all think these half hour blocks came from? Amazon ran database queries and saw they could slice 20-30% off their labor cost with the stroke of a pen, and delivery rates wouldn't suffer. No wonder there are few 4 hour blocks, no one's been taking 4 hours to do the blocks!
> 
> ...


Question. Does the 2.5hr block pay the same as the 4 hr block if it has way more packages? Like. is it a set rate for x amount of packages delivered, or is it strictly hourly?


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

jester121 That would be 100% true if the Amazon WHs didn't have the ability to track where your geodesic coordinates are while on route. Why else would they track the time a package was delivered? You can see that on the app for crying out loud. If you delivered your 2nd to last stop/packages at say 2:30 pm, and the final stop is 3 blocks down the same street, they would immediately know it took you 1.5 hrs to deliver that final stop/packages at 4 pm (when the block ended). Because they know how to calculate the approx amount of time it takes to drive to the final stop aka via D = RT formula using your last known geodesic coordinates.

It's exactly how my IC courier dispatcher found its drivers who lost contact with the Amazon network in hilly areas of SF city. Or blacklisted drivers who drove out of their delivery coverage area (like say from the Golden Gate park area to Financial District) to have lunch at their favorite restaurant. Or took 1hr v. 30 min lunches etc. Amazon blue suit personnel would point out these inconsistencies to the IC dispatchers. Who would then begin tracking and/or calling the delivery van drivers. Many of these drivers got fired if this inappropriate/inefficient use of company property resulted in them being systemically late on their routes. (i.e. made them late in getting back to the WH at the designated end of shift time).



K-pax said:


> Question. Does the 2.5hr block pay the same as the 4 hr block if it has way more packages? Like. is it a set rate for x amount of packages delivered, or is it strictly hourly?


YES. Unless you were lucky enough to grab an increased rate block like $100 for 4 hr (like I did last week), $77 for 3.5 hr, or $66 for 3 hr vs the standard $60 for 3 hr and $80 for 4 hr blocks. Just do the math.

Some of the Bay Area WHs are now organized to direct drivers to 3 and 4 hr block queues once they enter the WH. Despite the fact some of these drivers have 3 hr blocks, I've seen them _change queues and try loading racks from the longer 4hr ones_.  How the eff are they trying to hoodwink Amazon doing that? Do they really believe Amazon will pay them for the 4hr block when they were scheduled and checked in at 3hr? 

Or better yet, seen drivers making a beeline for the fullest racks in their app assigned block queue, and moving these fuller racks to their vehicle. Despite the fact the rack beside their vehicle has LESS bags and packages.  Apparently these drivers lack sufficient neurons firing in their brains. Because they would've realized they would be working longer, burning more time/fuel, and at risk of late delivery. While working for the same rate $20/hr -- which means they're making LESS than $20/hr because they're taking more time delivering more packages. LMAO

Or--as the OP stated in their post, Amazon appears to have special incentives for drivers with larger vehicles like SUV/vans etc. In which case they should be working for Amazon WH ICs as I earlier pointed out...


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## CatchyMusicLover (Sep 18, 2015)

jester121 said:


> Where do y'all think these half hour blocks came from? Amazon ran database queries and saw they could slice 20-30% off their labor cost with the stroke of a pen, and delivery rates wouldn't suffer. No wonder there are few 4 hour blocks, no one's been taking 4 hours to do the blocks!


Here, at least, the block lengths are reletively consistent about how long they take compared to how long they are suppose to. The 3.5 hour blocks, in my experience, take about the amount of time it should compared to the 3 and 4 ones. Obviously some blocks are better than others but I certainly haven't noticed 3.5 being what 4's 'should' be -- if anything, the 4 hour blocks are overall better now than they were a year ago (mostly that there's less zones and thus less driving, even if the package count is the same)


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

Cynergie said:


> jester121 That would be 100% true if the Amazon WHs didn't have the ability to track where your geodesic coordinates are while on route. Why else would they track the time a package was delivered? You can see that on the app for crying out loud. If you delivered your 2nd to last stop/packages at say 2:30 pm, and the final stop is 3 blocks down the same street, they would immediately know it took you 1.5 hrs to deliver that final stop/packages at 4 pm (when the block ended). Because they know how to calculate the approx amount of time it takes to drive to the final stop aka via D = RT formula using your last known geodesic coordinates.


Yeah, I get that all that tracking data is indeed available.

Point is, imagine you're writing the query that will run against the trip database -- all you're looking for is:

Show me the % of blocks where ActualDeliveryTime < Estimated Delivery Time
Show me the average difference between ActualDeliveryTime and EstimatedDeliveryTime
Show me a list of route codes where (EstimatedDeliveryTime - ActualDeliveryTime) > 30 minutes.

Could they go in and normalize all the data to throw out runs where TimeOfDay(Stop # (n - 1)) - TimeOfDay(Stop #) > 10 minutes? Sure they could. But they probably wouldn't. Unless they had a reason to.

All this stuff is, of course, running through statistical smoothing algorithms, and apparently the blocks get tweaked by hand at the warehouses sometimes too. But it's fun to think we could mess with the data, at least until someone notices and sends out a pissy email (like the recent Annie Leibovitz tribute).


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

".._Show me a list of route codes where (EstimatedDeliveryTime - ActualDeliveryTime) > 30 minutes_..."

Not getting technical on the route codes. This observation was based on WH policy for the IC driver I was working for. Amazon blue suiters would ride their arse if they noticed any of the drivers taking excessively long breaks and/or time to deliver to stops. IC dispatch would end up sending rescues for drivers whom they felt were going to bust the 5p to 530pm return to WH time. Flex drivers however, had a lot more degrees of freedom. But the thing is, the blocks are designed for drivers to pickup, deliver (and potentially return) packages in the designated block time. So the number of packages you receive will scale based on the length of your block time.

Say your rate is $60 for a 3 hr block. Your extended lunch hour causes you to run over the 3 hr limit to 4 hr total because you had to return packages etc. Now it's YOU who's now losing money, not Amazon. Due to your inefficient use of time on the route, you basically downgraded yourself from making $20/hr to $15/hr because Amazon is still going to pay you $60 regardless how long it takes you to complete. So that's where I think time sensitivity for breaks are built into the route codes. It becomes increasingly important if you're going to be doing longer 6-8 hr blocks with Flex.

I'd rather complete the 3hr in 1.5hr and go make more money grabbing other blocks or Ubering until a new block come available. Or Uber in between scheduled blocks for that day. Being more productive on each route = a greater weekly income. Period.


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## Placebo17 (Jan 20, 2017)

This bigger vehicle crap ruined the flex program at our warehouse. 

Also whatever happened to OP? I guess he quit flex to become a white van driver since all the blocks dried up in seattle.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

They come and go, all of us do eventually I guess. I just hope that means they got a better gig somewhere and never looked back.


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## Placebo17 (Jan 20, 2017)

Yeah I hope all the flex drivers find something better and never look back. Future looks grim with this gig. This program could be beneficial to amazon and the drivers but they refuse to listen to the veteran drivers.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

Cheaper and easier to treat us like commodities, interchangeable and easily replaceable.

We are Lego.

(except Amazon can step on us in the middle of the night with bare feet and not dance around the room screaming in pain)


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## Solo1 (Apr 18, 2017)

Placebo17 said:


> This bigger vehicle crap ruined the flex program at our warehouse.
> 
> Also whatever happened to OP? I guess he quit flex to become a white van driver since all the blocks dried up in seattle.


Lol ... I'm here ... Always have been ... Like we all know ... This is a gig to earn additional money for whatever ... I own a business that pays my life, but when my wife said I can't get that new xbox , I gig it ... When I want that drone, I gig it ... Another thing is they shut down Kent and that's what I signed up for ... It was easy, easy, easy money earlier, now all I hear is moanin and groanin ... Y'all understand.


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