# Uber CEO under investigation for FRAUD!!!



## Feisal Mo (Dec 19, 2014)

I am sure there will be no tears for Travis Kalanick going to jail.

"The Court finds that plaintiff has provided an entirely 'reasonable basis' to suspect the perpetration of a fraud and to suspect that Uber communications furthered such a fraud," Rakoff wrote.

The suit, filed in December, alleges that Uber chief executive Travis Kalanick engaged in a price-fixing scheme with Uber drivers. The proposed class action names Kalanick and not the ride-hailing company, though Uber is seeking to intervene in the lawsuit.

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKCN0YU0F5?irpc=932


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

I read this article a few minutes ago.
Uber instructed the private investigator to lie about his identity in order to investigate the plaintiff.
Yaaaay for the plaintiff!

This is gonna be a slam dunk against Uber.
Judge should hold Kalanick in contempt of court.


----------



## The Mollusk (Feb 13, 2016)

I say the day Kalanick goes to jail everyone meets at a local bar and have a toast


----------



## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

BACKGROUND: Spencer Meyer brought lawsuit against Travis Kalanick. Uber would have to change it's Model if Uber looses this lawsuit. The case simply says that Uber's model is illegal because it is a* price-fixing conspiracy* when all* Independent Contractors* (Uber Drivers) agree to do jobs at a price set by Uber (Kalanick).
This article gets into the legal particulars.

*http://prospect.org/article/uber's-antitrust-problem*


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

its still pretty silly, clearly none of us actually conspired with Travis. We didn't call,text, or communicate with him at all in this "conspiracy" Who would? we all hate him
just because we wanted to drive for surge only, is a weird way to call it price fixing


----------



## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> its still pretty silly, clearly none of actually conspired with Travis. Who would? we all hate him
> just because we wanted to drive for surge only, is a weird way to call it price fixing


It seems silly, but the Drivers are part of a conspiracy whether they know it or not according to the lawsuit. The article explains the legal reasoning.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

Ca$h4 said:


> The article explains the legal reasoning.


thanks, because I clearly didn't read the article
so lets say Uber loses, then what?
we all get to set our own rates? that would be interesting

but seems this would affect other big companies that do the same thing: hire independent contractors but only pay them at a rate they set really


----------



## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> thanks, because I clearly didn't read the article
> so lets say Uber loses, then what?
> we all get to set our own rates? that would be interesting
> 
> but seems this would affect other big companies that do the same thing: hire independent contractors but only pay them at a rate they set really


Interesting question what happens if they lose? Articles says decision would apply to many platforms.


----------



## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

The only thing I don't agree with in the article is the drivers conspiring with Travis. I know drivers wait for surges, but that's not manipulating the cost.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

ChortlingCrison said:


> The only thing I don't agree with in the article is the drivers conspiring with Travis. I know drivers wait for surges, but that's not manipulating the cost.


I always knew you rolled with Team McCoy


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

The Mollusk said:


> I say the day Kalanick goes to jail everyone meets at a local bar and have a toast


A toast?!?! Hell, I say we chug a beer for every year in jail Kaladick got sentanced to.


----------



## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

I true punishment for Travis would to send him a remote island where he can't communicate with anyone except his jailers. All kidding aside though, Uber could have a chance if they just unseated Travis.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

ChortlingCrison said:


> All kidding aside though, Uber could have a chance if they just unseated Travis.


He's like guys in major league baseball who hit a lot of homeruns, but strike out a TON! They produce a lot of "oohs and aahs" from the spectators, but over all they are a liability in the long run. Unfortunately Travis is a home run hitting strike out king who also owns the club, so the team is stuck with him in the lineup.


----------



## Micmac (Jul 31, 2015)

%101 guilty ! Everything in his life is fraud the guy is criminal ! And the money did not change the fact that his a low life!


----------



## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

The Mollusk said:


> I say the day Kalanick goes to jail everyone meets at a local bar and have a toast


Just dont drive, take an Uber!


----------



## SibeRescueBrian (May 10, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> I true punishment for Travis would to send him a remote island where he can't communicate with anyone except his jailers. All kidding aside though, Uber could have a chance if they just unseated Travis.


Actually, a true punishment would be to mandate that his only income be derived from driving for the company he created. I wonder if he would turn down a tip.


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

The article isn't so much about the price fixing lawsuit but about the PI hired by TK fraudulently representing himself while trying to find dirt on the plaintiff.

The article implies that Uber drivers could have provided rides at more competitive prices if not for Uber's alleged price fixing. Does that mean lower prices?

Edit to add, the plaintiff appears to be a rider not a driver if I understand correctly?


----------



## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Are we not all price fixing by staying offline until a surge happens?


----------



## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

SibeRescueBrian said:


> Actually, a true punishment would be to mandate that his only income be derived from driving for the company he created. I wonder if he would turn down a tip.


LOL, take away those booking fees and you wonder if there is any income.


----------



## JapanFour (Mar 8, 2016)

well it started with uber stealing code base from lyft and the bad ethics were maintained from then on.

The more things change the more they stay the same.


----------



## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> The article isn't so much about the price fixing lawsuit but about the PI hired by TK fraudulently representing himself while trying to find dirt on the plaintiff.
> 
> The article implies that Uber drivers could have provided rides at more competitive prices if not for Uber's alleged price fixing. Does that mean lower prices?
> 
> Edit to add, the plaintiff appears to be a rider not a driver if I understand correctly?


That sound like Donald McQuack procedures to remove a judge from his case.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Feisal Mo said:


> I am sure there will be no tears for Travis Kalanick going to jail.
> 
> "The Court finds that plaintiff has provided an entirely 'reasonable basis' to suspect the perpetration of a fraud and to suspect that Uber communications furthered such a fraud," Rakoff wrote.
> 
> ...


ALGORITHM !

NO WONDER SURGE IS DYING !

THESE WILD AND UNDFOUNDED ACCUSATIONS ARE RIDICULOUS !

TRAVIS NEVER CALLED AND TOLD ME TO DO ANYTHING !


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Simon said:


> Are we not all price fixing by staying offline until a surge happens?


PRIVATE contractor choosing under free will when to participate in market.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Ca$h4 said:


> It seems silly, but the Drivers are part of a conspiracy whether they know it or not according to the lawsuit. The article explains the legal reasoning.


So we the drivers are CO defendants !


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> The only thing I don't agree with in the article is the drivers conspiring with Travis. I know drivers wait for surges, but that's not manipulating the cost.


When drivers do not drive,they manipulate cost.

One could say,drivers not Travis are manipulating rates.

This will kill surge.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

SibeRescueBrian said:


> Actually, a true punishment would be to mandate that his only income be derived from driving for the company he created. I wonder if he would turn down a tip.


Ohhhhhh !
I like this idea !


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

tohunt4me said:


> This will kill surge.


Yep. Pretty much.

Anti-trust law requires that independent businesses set their own prices. If Uber wants to keep surge, then drivers need to be employees of Uber.

Uber might be able to get away with a static price that never changes and keep drivers as independent contractors, but they won't be able to do surge with independent contractors as it violates anti-trust law.

Bye bye surge... as Uber will never make drivers employees, and drivers don't want to be made employees.


----------



## Kevin7889 (Dec 10, 2015)

SibeRescueBrian said:


> Actually, a true punishment would be to mandate that his only income be derived from driving for the company he created. I wonder if he would turn down a tip.


They should also freeze his assets for a one year and make him drive uberX and he'll see how hard it is to make a living on uberX


----------



## AceManShow (Sep 24, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I read this article a few minutes ago.
> Uber instructed the private investigator to lie about his identity in order to investigate the plaintiff.
> Yaaaay for the plaintiff!
> 
> ...


Won't happen. He's got too much money. Rich peeps go to jail. Reallllly rich peeps own the peeps that run the jail.


----------



## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

He should go to prison for being such an asshole if there ever such a charge. Telling passengers tip is included when it's not is just plain stupid and immoral. I can't tell you how many people said its dumb and want to tip especially since they expense it. If they travel for business they should be able to add the tip. It makes for a very uncomfortable situation when they find out it's not and they have no cash on hand. #uberlies


----------



## monkeemama17 (Jun 4, 2016)

Kevin7889 said:


> They should also freeze his assets for a one year and make him drive uberX and he'll see how hard it is to make a living on uberX


I was thinking the same thing lol.


----------



## Micmac (Jul 31, 2015)

AceManShow said:


> Won't happen. He's got too much money. Rich peeps go to jail. Reallllly rich peeps own the peeps that run the jail.


By God grace he will go to jail, God makes miracles!
I m gonna seat and watch this monkey dragged to the cage (jail)!


----------



## JasonB (Jan 12, 2016)

UberHammer said:


> Yep. Pretty much.
> 
> Anti-trust law requires that independent businesses set their own prices. If Uber wants to keep surge, then drivers need to be employees of Uber.
> 
> ...


Most drivers simply want reasonable per mile and wait time rates, as well as a base fare.

The only reason drivers care about surge is because its the only way to get a decent per mile rate.

If Travis and the others who run the company would just set reasonable rates, everyone would be
happy, there would be plenty of drivers out, and pax wouldn't feel they were getting hosed with
'multiples' of standard rates.

Pax who felt uncomfortable with new, more realistic rates, would be free to look for other means of
transportation up to and including using their feet for those 2 block trips to the next bar.

It's really pretty simple.


----------



## RightTurnClyde (Dec 9, 2015)

JasonB said:


> Most drivers simply want reasonable per mile and wait time rates, as well as a base fare.
> 
> The only reason drivers care about surge is because its the only way to get a decent per mile rate.
> 
> ...


I share those thoughts completely...


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

You guys don't seem to understand the full ramifications if this lawsuit. The gist of it is that Travis can't have it both ways.

Either keep us as independent contractors and let US st the prices using Uber's technology to simply allow us to link up with pax OR they have to call us employees in order to set the prices for us.

This is what this lawsuit is going to come down to.

For those of you following me I did mention this the moment I first read about this lawsuit a lil while back.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

JasonB said:


> Most drivers simply want reasonable per mile and wait time rates, as well as a base fare.
> 
> The only reason drivers care about surge is because its the only way to get a decent per mile rate.
> 
> ...


I completely agree!


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

It will not apply to Uber Taxi, as local Regulators set the taxi rates. The taxis do not surge, either.



SibeRescueBrian said:


> Actually, a true punishment would be to mandate that his only income be derived from driving for the company he created.


.........and be restricted to U-Pool and UberX trips where the passengers are rated four stars or less.......................



Old Rocker said:


> I have my TNC license on a lanyard I hang from my GPS holder. I had a solo front seat passenger who examined my license for an uncomfortably long time then held the lanyard in his hand and rubbed his thumb across the fabric for a really uncomfortably long time.


I never allow a passenger to hold my Hack Licence in his hand. I will show it to him, but he will not touch it. I have had more than a few who told me that I had to put it into their hands, but I quickly disabused them of their misconceptions. I had one passenger who told me that he was going to hold my Hack Licence until the trip was over and that I had to let him do that. I refused, told him that he could see the licence and write down the information, but that it was not going into his hands. When an argument starts or the passenger reaches for the Hack Licence, I grab it quickly. No passenger touches my Hack Licence.



Kevin7889 said:


> make him drive uberX and he'll see how hard it is to make a living on uberX


The only UberX passengers that he should be permitted to haul are those rated four stars or less. Other than that, he must haul only U-Pool trips.



AceManShow said:


> Reallllly rich peeps own the peeps that run the jail.


Witness the so-called "Mob Section" of the Federal Pen in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania.


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I never allow a passenger to hold my Hack Licence in his hand. I will show it to him, but he will not touch it. I have had more than a few who told me that I had to put it into their hands, but I quickly disabused them of their misconceptions. I had one passenger who told me that he was going to hold my Hack Licence until the trip was over and that I had to let him do that. I refused, told him that he could see the licence and write down the information, but that it was not going into his hands. When an argument starts or the passenger reaches for the Hack Licence, I grab it quickly. No passenger touches my Hack Licence.


That gives me food for thought. I don't wear the lanyard around my neck as that is a basic self defense protection - someone could use the lanyard to choke the driver. I don't think our Byzantine city code requires us to display it, I just do so in order for the pax to know I'm an 'authentic' Uber driver.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> I don't think our Byzantine city code requires us to display it, I just do so in order for the pax to know I'm an 'authentic' Uber driver.


Display it, yes, for just the purposes that you stated. Try putting it on the sun visor on the driver's side. Wrap some rubber bands around it. D.C. Law requires that the hack licence be displayed on the right sun visor, but, if I think that the passenger might reach for it, it moves very quickly to the left side.


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Display it, yes, for just the purposes that you stated. Try putting it on the sun visor on the driver's side. Wrap some rubber bands around it. D.C. Law requires that the hack licence be displayed on the right sun visor, but, if I think that the passenger might reach for it, it moves very quickly to the left side.


Great idea. Thank you.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Staying logged off and watching the pax app until surge is most definitely conspiracy to create surge.
There are 100,000 posts about that very method on this forum.
Expect them to use your own words to penalize Uber.


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Staying logged off and watching the pax app until surge is most definitely conspiracy to create surge.
> There are 100,000 posts about that very method on this forum.
> Expect them to use your own words to penalize Uber.


Yep. This is an open forum. Too many people talk too much. Definitely not OG material.


----------



## Feisal Mo (Dec 19, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Staying logged off and watching the pax app until surge is most definitely conspiracy to create surge.
> There are 100,000 posts about that very method on this forum.
> Expect them to use your own words to penalize Uber.


----------



## Micmac (Jul 31, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Staying logged off and watching the pax app until surge is most definitely conspiracy to create surge.
> There are 100,000 posts about that very method on this forum.
> Expect them to use your own words to penalize Uber.


From taxi to uber wa happen bro?


----------



## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

Simon said:


> Are we not all price fixing by staying offline until a surge happens?


I wish we were.


----------



## SuckA (May 4, 2016)

Glad I don't work for this loser!


----------



## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

Maybe Travis will be assigned a cell next to Bernie (Madoff).


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Staying logged off and watching the pax app until surge is most definitely conspiracy to create surge.
> There are 100,000 posts about that very method on this forum.
> Expect them to use your own words to penalize Uber.


I posted that same exact thing about 2 months ago. Not only does the forum teach you to use both the driver app and the pax app to create a surge, but it belittles anyone whom doesn't abide by the "surge only" rule. You are correct about conspiring. Social media is the death of oneself. Just ask that girl doctor in Miami. Thank God the early 80's only had beepers.


----------



## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

With Uber x rates being so low the only way to make money is the surge rides.


----------



## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

The context in which conspire is being used for purposes of the lawsuit means not that the drivers acted secretly to commit a legal Act. It only means the drivers work with him by driving at those prices. It absolutely does not mean that the drivers did anything immoral or illegal.


----------



## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

Ms.Doe said:


> The context in which conspire is being used for purposes of the lawsuit means not that the drivers acted secretly to commit a legal Act. It only means the drivers work with him by driving at those prices. It absolutely does not mean that the drivers did anything immoral or illegal.


True but Drivers do not make the tariff/rate.


----------



## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

MoneyUber4 said:


> True but Drivers do not make the tariff/rate.


I know.


----------



## Uberchampion (Oct 17, 2015)

Feisal Mo said:


> I am sure there will be no tears for Travis Kalanick going to jail.
> 
> "The Court finds that plaintiff has provided an entirely 'reasonable basis' to suspect the perpetration of a fraud and to suspect that Uber communications furthered such a fraud," Rakoff wrote.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately rich people don't really go to jail.


----------



## yojimboguy (Mar 2, 2016)

Why does the surge matter? Uber sets the rate every second I'm driving, surge or not. As far as I can tell, putting up a big surge number is how Uber shuts down demand, because my pings drop down to virtually nothing when the surge factor goes up as high as 2.x. Maybe it's different in a bigger market, I dunno.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

yojimboguy said:


> Why does the surge matter?


If Uber drivers were employees of Uber, surge wouldn't matter at all. But because drivers are all independent of Uber, surge creates a violation of anti-trust law. Large groups of independent businesses cannot agree to raise prices simultaneously.


----------



## yojimboguy (Mar 2, 2016)

But, surge or not, we are all charging the same fare, that Uber decides. If we were all independent of Uber, we would have our own base rates. That's why I say surge doesn't matter.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

yojimboguy said:


> But, surge or not, we are all charging the same fare, that Uber decides. If we were all independent of Uber, we would have our own base rates. That's why I say surge doesn't matter.


True. But antitrust law exists to protect consumers from being victims of price fixing. No rider has every been a victim of Uber dropping the rates so low. The only way to prove Uber has violated antitrust law is showing consumers have been victimized by surge.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Staying logged off and watching the pax app until surge is most definitely conspiracy to create surge.
> There are 100,000 posts about that very method on this forum.
> Expect them to use your own words to penalize Uber.


Uber NEVER told them to do that.
I don't think Uber approves of that.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber NEVER told them to do that.
> I don't think Uber approves of that.


Ironically that behavior would be an asset to Uber's defense that it's not fixing prices, as drivers are setting their individual prices by waiting until the Uber price rises to what they are willing to accept.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> If Uber drivers were employees of Uber, surge wouldn't matter at all. But because drivers are all independent of Uber, surge creates a violation of anti-trust law. Large groups of independent businesses cannot agree to raise prices simultaneously.


What is a strike ?
Demand for better conditions under the threat of ceasing to work ?

Is a strike illegal ?

Drivers who only drive under surge are merely protesting.

Nothing illegal there.

They have a RIGHT to organize.


----------



## yojimboguy (Mar 2, 2016)

UberHammer said:


> True. But antitrust law exists to protect consumers from being victims of price fixing. No rider has every been a victim of Uber dropping the rates so low. The only way to prove Uber has violated antitrust law is showing consumers have been victimized by surge.


Do you know that's true? For example, what if Uber and drivers (haha) are conspiring to keep prices artificially low to drive competing taxi companies out of business? That would be just as much price fixing, and even more directly anti-competitive.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

tohunt4me said:


> What is a strike ?
> Demand for better conditions under the threat of ceasing to work ?
> 
> Is a strike illegal ?
> ...


Employees have collective bargaining rights.

Unfortunately independent contractors don't (except in very few cities that have local laws establishing that right).


----------



## Uber Noob (Jun 9, 2016)

Feisal Mo said:


> I am sure there will be no tears for Travis Kalanick going to jail.
> 
> "The Court finds that plaintiff has provided an entirely 'reasonable basis' to suspect the perpetration of a fraud and to suspect that Uber communications furthered such a fraud," Rakoff wrote.
> 
> ...


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

yojimboguy said:


> Do you know that's true? For example, what if Uber and drivers (haha) are conspiring to keep prices artificially low to drive competing taxi companies out of business? That would be just as much price fixing, and even more directly anti-competitive.


Yes, that's a violation of antitrust law. But the only time the government has stepped in those circumstances is when the result is a monopoly because one company put all the rest out of business by doing that. Walmart has many times been sued for doing that, and never lost because they aren't considered a monopoly.


----------



## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Ironically that behavior would be an asset to Uber's defense that it's not fixing prices, as drivers are setting their individual prices by waiting until the Uber price rises to what they are willing to accept.


If uber and lyft did not have 1970 rates the passanger would not think anything about the rates.All cabs companies charge two dollars plus per mile in a lot of cites you have to catch a 3x surge ride to match that.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> If Uber drivers were employees of Uber, surge wouldn't matter at all. But because drivers are all independent of Uber, surge creates a violation of anti-trust law. Large groups of independent businesses cannot agree to raise prices simultaneously.


 The same incident occurred in the Phoenix area back in the late 90's. Residential construction was a major industry in the Phoenix metropolitan area for the past 30 years, and the high end homes were booming in North Scottsdale. Only a few select contractors were qualified to construct these multi-million dollar mansions. It was determined, but never proven that the 10 or so select contractors were coercing with each other to raise their bids. Since there was an abundance of new home starts, the contractors would get together to discuss which homes each would like to build. Then they would raise their bids on the homes they did not want to build as to make the winning contractors bid appear acceptable. Some suggested that this price gouging cost the homeowner upwards of 40% more.


----------



## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

if we are true ic's uber should not be able to continue price fixing. we should be able to set our own rates independently. but we should also have the means to be able to change the rates we set in accordance with time, traffic, demand, etc. 
someone here asked if this means prices will go down, no, because uber will not be able to cut our rates every winter.


----------



## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

How sleazy is Uber? This federal judge wants to know

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-uber-rakoff-20160610-snap-story.html








[Uber's behavior raises] a serious risk of perverting the processes of justice before this court.- U.S. District Judge Jed S. Rakoff


----------



## Lou W (Oct 26, 2014)

Trump Kalinack 2016. Los corrupto Hermanos.


----------



## GILD (Feb 8, 2016)

I want to set my rate. $1.25 a min. 0$ per mile. That is MY RATE. Ill even drive pool at same exact rate. 
minimum FARE $10 to driver. No ping farther away than trip will pay! 5 min away, minimum 5 min trip pay.
22 min away, min 22 min trip pay. All at $1.25 a min. $0 per mile. I click start trip, start timer. I click end trip. Pay me.


----------



## Hell yeah ! (Jun 10, 2016)

UberHammer said:


> A toast?!?! Hell, I say we chug a beer for every year in jail Kaladick got sentanced to.


Keg is on me guys!


----------



## MattyMikey (Aug 19, 2015)

What would be interesting given this lawsuit and almost worth trying once... Next time get a fare that was surge to send in fare adjustment asking for surge to be removed. 

See if they modify it correctly. If they didn't it would screw them. I bet they would push back.

And I'm not saying to ask them to discount $2.00 but asking them to completely recalculate entire fare (and their commission) appropriately as though there was no surge.


----------



## Hannibalb (Jan 19, 2016)

SibeRescueBrian said:


> Actually, a true punishment would be to mandate that his only income be derived from driving for the company he created. I wonder if he would turn down a tip.


First seize all his assets. Only income is Detroit UberX rates on a leased vehicle.


----------



## UofMDriver (Dec 29, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> The only thing I don't agree with in the article is the drivers conspiring with Travis. I know drivers wait for surges, but that's not manipulating the cost.


I wait for surges because the regular fares in Michigan are to low.


----------



## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

UberHammer said:


> He's like guys in major league baseball who hit a lot of homeruns, but strike out a TON! They produce a lot of "oohs and aahs" from the spectators, but over all they are a liability in the long run. Unfortunately Travis is a home run hitting strike out king who also owns the club, so the team is stuck with him in the lineup.


Reminds me of Dave Kingman.


----------



## SurgeMachine (Mar 15, 2016)

All this price fixing lawsuit crap is so confusing. Is someone suing Uber because they got mad that they got screwed on a surge fare? So they started a vendetta against Uber and surge pricing? Or is this totally different.


----------



## Lyftonly (Nov 12, 2015)

I don't hear anyone of the pax crying over 1.5o ride in a private vehicle. Only when they feel the surge and the driver is happy its when they want blood. But fk Travis either way. Hope he gets what's coming to him.


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield (Aug 28, 2014)

GILD said:


> I want to set my rate. $1.25 a min. 0$ per mile. That is MY RATE. Ill even drive pool at same exact rate.
> minimum FARE $10 to driver. No ping farther away than trip will pay! 5 min away, minimum 5 min trip pay.
> 22 min away, min 22 min trip pay. All at $1.25 a min. $0 per mile. I click start trip, start timer. I click end trip. Pay me.


I like it.....VERY MUCH!!!!


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

yojimboguy said:


> Why does the surge matter? Uber sets the rate every second I'm driving, surge or not. As far as I can tell, putting up a big surge number is how Uber shuts down demand, because my pings drop down to virtually nothing when the surge factor goes up as high as 2.x. Maybe it's different in a bigger market, I dunno.


This was my question as well, but the article pushes aside that premise in the first few paragraphs. Honestly, I didn't really get it on the first reading. Articles by economists tend to have that effect on me. I've always seen this issue as: independent contractors who are all using the same pricing created by a third party. It seems obviously wrong. But apparently not, according to the author. I'll try reading this again.


----------



## UberCity (Jun 10, 2016)

This is not criminal court and standards are lower to prove liability. Interesting that the complaint is filed against Kalenick and not uber....smells like a hit to result in a quick settlement $$$$$$ as 90% of lawsuits go. Anyway dream on if you think this is going to derail Uber and Lyft !!!!


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

UberCity said:


> This is not criminal court and standards are lower to prove liability. Interesting that the complaint is filed against Kalenick and not uber....smells like a hit to result in a quick settlement $$$$$$ as 90% of lawsuits go. Anyway dream on if you think this is going to derail Uber and Lyft !!!!


Derail? As in, put them out of business? Well...I guess that's a safe bet. But the history of corporate antitrust case law tends to differ with your opinion. There will most likely be changes to their business practices as these suits play out. There seems to be a problem with Uber setting universal prices which independent contractors use to fulfill the jobs. There seems to be a problem with Uber coercing independent contractors to take jobs without giving them complete information about what the job entails (blind destination.) I'm no expert. It's JMHO.


----------



## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

May this stuff be exposed completely.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Don't worry about drivers being included in any way with the "conspiracy". They would have to prove we are an active participant. Since we don't have ANY control whatsoever over prices we can't be complicit.


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> ALGORITHM !
> 
> NO WONDER SURGE IS DYING !
> 
> ...


He called me


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> When drivers do not drive,they manipulate cost.
> 
> One could say,drivers not Travis are manipulating rates.
> 
> This will kill surge.


I don't see how not participating in a transaction could be considered manipulating it.


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

UberHammer said:


> If Uber drivers were employees of Uber, surge wouldn't matter at all. But because drivers are all independent of Uber, surge creates a violation of anti-trust law. Large groups of independent businesses cannot agree to raise prices simultaneously.


But Uber and the pax set the rate. The drivers have only the option to agree to the rate or decline


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> What is a strike ?
> Demand for better conditions under the threat of ceasing to work ?
> 
> Is a strike illegal ?
> ...


Actually, we don't have the right to organize. I don't "conspire" with anyone to not work at an profitable rate. No legal entity can force anyone at wages they are unwilling to work for.


----------



## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Rat said:


> But Uber and the pax set the rate. The drivers have only the option to agree to the rate or decline


That's pretty much the point. Drivers would have to be employees of Uber for that process to not be a violation of antitrust laws. Given every driver is an independent business, Uber has created a scenario where numerous independent businesses raise prices on consumers simultaneously. It's the result to the consumer that matters in antitrust, and not the process of how it came about.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> That's pretty much the point. Drivers would have to be employees of Uber for that process to not be a violation of antitrust laws. Given every driver is an independent business, Uber has created a scenario where numerous independent businesses raise prices on consumers simultaneously. It's the result to the consumer that matters in antitrust, and not the process of how it came about.


Hammer, thanks. That actually clarifies. I can see that SURGE is likely to seen as collusion. Still, I consider Uber price setting to be improper in general. Who are they to say what the rates should be in the first place? Sure they dance around the issue by claiming drivers are entitled to charge less, but that's ridiculous. There's no mechanism to adjust the price in the app. The rates are too low to begin with. And drivers have no means of advertising a lower price to customers, even if they wanted to.

As I've harped on many times before, these TNCs will have to eventually get out of the pricing altogether and switch to an eBay like marketplace where drivers and passengers negotiate price and terms. It's the only way


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

stuber said:


> Hammer, thanks. That actually clarifies. I can see that SURGE is likely to seen as collusion. Still, I consider Uber price setting to be improper in general. Who are they to say what the rates should be in the first place? Sure they dance around the issue by claiming drivers are entitled to charge less, but that's ridiculous. There's no mechanism to adjust the price in the app. The rates are too low to begin with. And drivers have no means of advertising a lower price to customers, even if they wanted to.
> 
> As I've harped on many times before, these TNCs will have to eventually get out of the pricing altogether and switch to an eBay like marketplace where drivers and passengers negotiate price and terms. It's the only way


Just speculation here. One, would that encourage a race to the bottom with the super desperate charging 50 cents a miles, and two, would that result in cities taking up the rate issue and setting rates? Food for thought.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Both possible. But, time will winnow away at the low ballers. The low end pricing would likely stabilize around $2.00/mile, I would guess. We all know that this is probably the price where drivers can run a sustainable business. The trouble is that part-time drivers skew the bottom.


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

stuber said:


> Both possible. But, time will winnow away at the low ballers. The low end pricing would likely stabilize around $2.00/mile, I would guess. We all know that this is probably the price where drivers can run a sustainable business. The trouble is that part-time drivers skew the bottom.


I considered that, too, but wonder if, with the constant driver churn, would there be a steady stream of new low-ballers?


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> Just speculation here. One, would that encourage a race to the bottom with the super desperate charging 50 cents a miles, and two, would that result in cities taking up the rate issue and setting rates? Food for thought.


Rocker, Pricing is problematic. Customers cheap and easy, and drivers want to be profitable. There's ways to accommodate both sides, but not without transparency. Using preset rates can work, but there's got to be a mechanism to adjust any particular fare to suit the circumstances. If a customer wants a trip that no available driver (who knows in advance the trip details, i.e., the drivers is informed) wants to run at the preset rate, then how does that customer get service? Well...by paying more. 
So, maybe the best solution is to use preset rates, and have adjustable surcharges. That type of system would fit most circumstances. But it has to be made quick and easy. A drawn out process for negotiating and making adjustments won't work.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Ca$h4 said:


> BACKGROUND: Spencer Meyer brought lawsuit against Travis Kalanick. Uber would have to change it's Model if Uber looses this lawsuit. The case simply says that Uber's model is illegal because it is a* price-fixing conspiracy* when all* Independent Contractors* (Uber Drivers) agree to do jobs at a price set by Uber (Kalanick).
> This article gets into the legal particulars.
> 
> *http://prospect.org/article/uber's-antitrust-problem*


I predict they will end the surge, because of this issue. 
What they should do is let drivers set their own prices, and let them compete with each other. 
That's what the now defunct SideCar used to do.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> I predict they will end the surge, because of this issue.
> What they should do is let drivers set their own prices, and let them compete with each other.
> That's what the now defunct SideCar used to do.


Indeed. But there's problems with that too, namely: low ballers driving the fares downwards. It's tough to figure the pricing problem.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

stuber said:


> Indeed. But there's problems with that too, namely: low ballers driving the fares downwards. It's tough to figure the pricing problem.


But, on the positive side of this, Uber could present the rider with several choices, and allow the driver to have a little blurb as to why he or she
was worth the price, such as "Ford Taurus, big, comfortable car....professional driver" ( since I would definitely set my prices higher ).
And allow the driver to build a following. also, allow rider to select a larger sedan ( not in the select or XL class, but a larger X car ) which would tout a higher price.

That's why I would like that system. No way can I sit an a prius for 10 hours a day.


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Individually setting of fares might work under a scenario like this: Customer pings and gets three hits. Driver A is 2 minutes away and charges $1.15 a mile, Driver B is 5 minutes away and charges $1.00 a mile, Driver C is 13 minutes away and charges $0.85 a mile. The customer chooses her ride based on how much of a hurry they are in and the intended length of the trip.

Would customers like a system like that?


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> Individually setting of fares might work under a scenario like this: Customer pings and gets three hits. Driver A is 2 minutes away and charges $1.15 a mile, Driver B is 5 minutes away and charges $1.00 a mile, Driver C is 13 minutes away and charges $0.85 a mile. The customer chooses her ride based on how much of a hurry they are in and the intended length of the trip.
> 
> Would customers like a system like that?


Sure customers would like choice and control, but would LORD ALGORITHM?

It's best for Uber, I think, if "partners" are a disposal commodity.


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

stuber said:


> Sure customers would like choice and control, but would LORD ALGORITHM?
> 
> It's best for Uber, I think, if "partners" are a disposal commodity.


Well, one thing is for certain, Uber feels it's cheaper to continually onboard new drivers and pay millions for TV ads than it is to increase driver pay.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> Individually setting of fares might work under a scenario like this: Customer pings and gets three hits. Driver A is 2 minutes away and charges $1.15 a mile, Driver B is 5 minutes away and charges $1.00 a mile, Driver C is 13 minutes away and charges $0.85 a mile. The customer chooses her ride based on how much of a hurry they are in and the intended length of the trip.
> 
> Would customers like a system like that?


And really, wouldn't drivers further out from the call want higher rates?


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

stuber said:


> And really, wouldn't drivers further out from the call want higher rates?


Of course, but a rider wouldn't want to both wait longer and pay more.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

See. It's problematic. It's gets more complicated when you start filtering ( what kind of cars, woman driver, destination, WiFi, etc) Or, what if the passenger is not in a hurry? Pricing and logistics are complicated. UPS has a building full of mathematicians doing this live, every day, just to figure the options and prices.


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

stuber said:


> See. It's problematic. It's gets more complicated when you start filtering ( what kind of cars, woman driver, destination, WiFi, etc) Or, what if the passenger is not in a hurry? Pricing and logistics are complicated. UPS has a building full of mathematicians doing this live, every day, just to figure the options and prices.


Exactly. To paraphrase, Uber's system is the worst possible system, except for all the others.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Old Rocker said:


> Exactly. To paraphrase, Uber's system is the worst possible system, except for all the others.


True, unfortunately. For the demand work anyway..


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> Individually setting of fares might work under a scenario like this: Customer pings and gets three hits. Driver A is 2 minutes away and charges $1.15 a mile, Driver B is 5 minutes away and charges $1.00 a mile, Driver C is 13 minutes away and charges $0.85 a mile. The customer chooses her ride based on how much of a hurry they are in and the intended length of the trip.
> 
> Would customers like a system like that?


$1.15 is the top end? Hahaha!


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

ABC123DEF said:


> $1.15 is the top end? Hahaha!


Just throwing out numbers. But I think if there were a free market for drivers' rates, $1.15 would be about average. IMHO based on nothing but my own twisty thought processes.


----------



## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

This is simply a lawsuit brought by a customer who thinks he can get us for $0.44 a mile if he sues. If some private investigator committed fraud then he should be charged but uberr and Travis should not be involved in this lawsuit unless somebody can prove that they perpetrated the fraud by making the investigator do the fraud. You can call me a fanboy if you want but this is a ridiculous lawsuit brought by some pissed-off passenger who thinks that $0.85 a mile is too much. If some customer thinks that we the drivers are involved in price-fixing they are out of their mind. And I used to drive taxi and the rates are set by the cab company and the City so they would be involved in price-fixing as well because all taxis had to charge the same rate


----------



## LVegas (Feb 13, 2015)

Travis KalaDICK better bring Vaseline, his a$$ will be game Uber!


----------



## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> You guys don't seem to understand the full ramifications if this lawsuit. The gist of it is that Travis can't have it both ways.
> 
> Either keep us as independent contractors and let US st the prices using Uber's technology to simply allow us to link up with pax OR they have to call us employees in order to set the prices for us.
> 
> ...


I've said it before that if you don't like the prices don't drive


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

garyk said:


> This is simply a lawsuit brought by a customer who thinks he can get us for $0.44 a mile if he sues. If some private investigator committed fraud then he should be charged but uberr and Travis should not be involved in this lawsuit unless somebody can prove that they perpetrated the fraud by making the investigator do the fraud. You can call me a fanboy if you want but this is a ridiculous lawsuit brought by some pissed-off passenger who thinks that $0.85 a mile is too much. If some customer thinks that we the drivers are involved in price-fixing they are out of their mind. And I used to drive taxi and the rates are set by the cab company and the City so they would be involved in price-fixing as well because all taxis had to charge the same rate


I agree with you that the lawsuit is frivolous. However, if TK and the PI colluded to perpetrate fraud while investigating the plaintiff and the plaintiff's attorney, then that should be closely looked into.

I think what the court might be trying to discover is the credibility of some of Uber's defense if part of their defense is built upon information gathered under false pretenses. That would negatively shade any other information Uber and TK brought forward in their defense.

It's similar to how Apple lost their price fixing case in the same court. Steve Jobs was on record, in his biography of all places, of stating that Amazon 'was leaving money on the table' by discounting books, and then Jobs set up private meetings with book publishers to set prices.


----------



## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

Uberchampion said:


> Unfortunately rich people don't really go to jail.


Paris Hilton did.


----------



## HHTJ (Dec 13, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Don't worry about drivers being included in any way with the "conspiracy". They would have to prove we are an active participant. Since we don't have ANY control whatsoever over prices we can't be complicit.


Finally someone said what I've been thinking as I went thru all of these replies.

We have no control over rates. We dont know the drivers to riders ratio at any given time in any given area.

The system dictates surge however it does by calculation, and we as drivers have zero insight on how rates fluctuate at any given time in any given area.

Therefore we are not in any conspiracy of price fixing, as the system dictates the prices to us.

On top of that, since surge can possibly be partly due to a ratio of drivers to riders, if everyone waits to surge in an area, then sign on in a specific area, the surge would disappear as there would become a ratio of more drives to less riders in an area.

This is why you dont chase a surge, because if there are more drivers available vs demand, the surge disappears, as you all must know by now


----------



## Forest Bickle (May 3, 2016)

Wow glad I came in just after HHTJ. Good response and a lively discussion. Funny how a co-founder of something that people use can come under so much hate like disposition. This is why history repeats itself. Is anyone ready to emerge from their existential sysephyan angst?

As HHTJ aptly noted essentially the surge is an algorithmic mechanism on a complex but nonetheless concrete value of which is the competition for space. We see it in housing, the formation of Cities, sky scrapers, metroplex and suburban geographical development in cities and human habitation. However in travel and transportation this value, until rideshares developed it's deployment, was never visible and hardly imagined in real time. The taxi meter fare system itself was the result of of just such market reality, an economization of the cities of New York and Chicago in particular.

As far as Uber and Lyft's surge mechanisms, they are a bare bones market reality. Both the driver and the pax agree to the mechanism by using the app (sort of like the fare information on the side doors of taxi's). Both parties are equally complicit in the surge adjustments, both sides--I would argue--independently and by individual non associated choices affect the value decision. Customers wait out the surge or take metered taxis in lieu, if available or any one of many other services.... If available... Drivers who log off to wait for the surge are doing nothing different than if they were to stay at home and not work or choose to go to work. All Uber/Lyft have done for the benefit of society is some up with a simple elegant universal mechanism. It's self regulating, end of story.

I've said this before somewhere but I'll throw it out here, much more could be done to mitigate negative reactions by introducing an opportunity deference mechanism and placing more surge ratio on this and lowering the ratio on the mileage. *Stuber *is right about the mechanisms and the need for simplicity. Here in Seattle Uber and Lyft are being prompted by the regulatory body to introduce Uber Pool and, recently an "Earnings promotion" where Uber ate it's commission (they basically took only 4% on anything under 1.2 surge, and gave it to the drivers) essentially, throughout the entire county from 0600-0900. In my opinion they're starting to "get it" here in Seattle, however the driver's considerations will never be heard.

Antitrust efforts should go nowhere if justice is served. It's absurd. As for the fraud or whatnot, better to have it on and individual instead of the creation which you all "partner" with. Regulation by lower geographic municipality is the issue and they all SUCK ass at doing it except maybe in Japan and places like New York where there is a commission with a stated purpose.

One thing you can always, always be sure of is that there will always be dissatisfaction expressed by the unenlightened when a sacrifice is made, those who have reckoning understand and accept the outcome and it's benefits.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Micmac said:


> From taxi to uber wa happen bro?


Dude Im still driving my taxi.
I'm NeverUberMan lol.
Never!


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I read this article a few minutes ago.
> Uber instructed the private investigator to lie about his identity in order to investigate the plaintiff.
> Yaaaay for the plaintiff!
> 
> ...


Since when is lying about your identity to investigate something illegal or improper?

This is a fluff suit Uber will win. We are allowed to negotiate lower rates so it could hardly be called anti-competitive or price fixing. Just lawyers being lawyers looking for a payday.


----------



## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

This is uber fault for dropping the rates so low,they created cheap ass passangers.


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Since when is lying about your identity to investigate something illegal or improper?
> 
> This is a fluff suit Uber will win. We are allowed to negotiate lower rates so it could hardly be called anti-competitive or price fixing. Just lawyers being lawyers looking for a payday.


I'm not a lawyer or knowledgeable of criminal law, but I don't think the issue is that the PI committed criminal fraud, but that the information provided to the court by TK and Uber was misrepresented as being legitimately obtained, as TK and Uber lied about how they obtained the information. This prejudices anything else TK and Uber has presented before the court. IMHO.


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Old Rocker said:


> TK and Uber lied about how they obtained the information.


_Uber officials still deny that they knew the investigator had lied or concealed his identity, calling him a "misguided employee" in a filing._

I think the accusation that TK and Uber lied is premature as this is not in evidence. I wouldn't doubt it from the investigator but it would be pretty stupid of Uber.


----------



## Optimus Uber (Oct 7, 2014)

It's not price fixing. It's off basis. The fact that drivers won't drive for a shit rate isn't price fixing. Uber brings the price up, aka, surge to get cars available. As we won't drive the crap base rate.

If the price didn't go up then there would be no cars to drive the entitled POS around.

It's about bringing supply and demand into equilibrium so that there are enough cars to meet the amount of potential rides.

It's Just an entitlement suit. No one forces anyone to take an uber. It's not a matter of life or death. They can take a taxi if they don't like the way uber is setup. 

These charges are complete hog wash. This is an easy win for uber. There are alternatives to uber. They aren't the only transportation network. If you don't like how uber is setup then don't use it.

Guess that means any driver that took a surge ride conspired with uber to price fix and we all have to goto jail as well

Regarding the investigator, who cares. Uber was doing there due diligence to protect the company. 

I think this is one of the most incompetent filings I've seen. Complete stupidity. 

The fact is, if you don't like the surge then take a damn taxi.


----------



## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Optimus Uber said:


> It's not price fixing. It's off basis. The fact that drivers won't drive for a shit rate isn't price fixing. Uber brings the price up, aka, surge to get cars available. As we won't drive the crap base rate.
> 
> If the price didn't go up then there would be no cars to drive the entitled POS around.
> 
> ...


Sadly, even the entitled are allowed their day in court. Well, not sadly, really, the alternative is worse.

People think they can sue Uber now and just hope for a nice settlement.


----------



## Optimus Uber (Oct 7, 2014)

The other thing to consider is we are contractors. So by staying offline and waiting for our price (surge), we do work for the rate in which we want to work for.

If we were employees uber would tell you, you have to be on a certain shift and have to take every call regardless of rate.

Price fixing isn't the case.

I had a lady complaining one morning that there weren't any X cars available. I said there are cars out there they just won't work for the base fare as there is no profit in it.

So they stay off line until it surges. Next thing I know, she goes off on me telling me that's not right. Uber needs to do something about it.

I stated, we are contractors. We will work for the rate that makes a profit. Ubers current base rate has no profit in it. Anyone driving for non-surge on X is an idiot. As you can imagine it added fuel to the fire.

Then I stated. Do you think there is any profit running a car at .90 a mile minus 25% commission. Minus gas and maintenance on a car. She stated, thats not my issue.

I said, in a way it is your issue. You're in a select car paying more than double because no UberX car will opt in at .90 a mile. That rate is a sweat shop rate and it isn't good for America. Anyone driving at that rate and any passenger supporting that rate is turning America into a sweat shop.

I said, think about it. If uber raised the rate .50 a mile, this ride would only cost you another $5 instead of another $15 because the uberx cars wouldn't be hiding for their price.

As the steam comes out of her ears, she starts on how the class action law suit is BS and the tipping thing isn't right. I said, I'm good with not being tipped as long as I get paid a fair rate. That's why this ride is costing you $45 and not $20. Because I included the tip in the fare.

To say the least, out of the 6000 rides I have given this is the first time I actually got tweeked by another persons demeanor. The fact that she thinks she's entitled for a cheap ride to lax.

As the ride is coming to an end she states, when she arrives at lax she uses a taxi because uber is such an inconvenience. I said, I agree with you. It's easier to grab a cab than wait 20 minutes for an uberx to come get you.

But that's why you pay more for a taxi. For the convenience. It's right there. Easy to get in and out of lax. So you're ride home in a taxi will cost you $55 plus tip. Because it's a convenience. Just like at times uber is more of a convenience than a taxi, yet the taxi is 3x more than an uberx and you tip.

The few minutes left in the ride were very quiet.

She got out, I took my 1* and my professionalism: attitude remark with stride.

And she took with her a schooling. Hypocrit.


----------



## uberxtreme (Jan 15, 2015)

They are not talking about drivers and ceo price fixing, they are talking about how uber lowers prices in certain areas and makes it higher in other areas, they are different prices oc and la for example. Would that not go into definition of price fixing? Correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## Optimus Uber (Oct 7, 2014)

Pricing is based on supply and demand. Different areas different supply and demand. 

Auto insurance is an example. Why is my auto insurance cheaper in west hills than in Santa Monica? Price fixing by the insurance companies? Yet it's legal. And west hills and Santa Monica both in la county. At least when uber changes the price it's unique to the county. 

Many companies have different prices in their stores based on location. Goto vons at Lincoln and Broadway ten goto vons at roscoe and topanga. Prices in SM higher. Is this price fixing?


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

uberxtreme said:


> They are not talking about drivers and ceo price fixing, they are talking about how uber lowers prices in certain areas and makes it higher in other areas, they are different prices oc and la for example. Would that not go into definition of price fixing? Correct me if I'm wrong


wrong

You are now corrected.


----------



## Tequila Jake (Jan 28, 2016)

uber strike said:


> if we are true ic's uber should not be able to continue price fixing. we should be able to set our own rates independently. but we should also have the means to be able to change the rates we set in accordance with time, traffic, demand, etc.
> someone here asked if this means prices will go down, no, because uber will not be able to cut our rates every winter.


It seems to me this would be fairly simple to implement. A simple "set your rates" screen that lets you enter flag drop, per minute, and per mile rates and a maximum distance would suffice.

Then the pax app could offer whether to accept a 15 minute wait time estimated at $10-$15 or a 3 minute wait time with the ride estimated at $20-$25.

And of course, whenever app changes are made, they should add the tipping option to make Uber a cashless experience.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Ca$h4 said:


> BACKGROUND: Spencer Meyer brought lawsuit against Travis Kalanick. Uber would have to change it's Model if Uber looses this lawsuit. The case simply says that Uber's model is illegal because it is a* price-fixing conspiracy* when all* Independent Contractors* (Uber Drivers) agree to do jobs at a price set by Uber (Kalanick).
> This article gets into the legal particulars.
> 
> *http://prospect.org/article/uber's-antitrust-problem*


THANK YOU for sharing this very important article!


----------



## HHTJ (Dec 13, 2015)

Forest Bickle said:


> Wow glad I came in just after HHTJ. Good response and a lively discussion. Funny how a co-founder of something that people use can come under so much hate like disposition. This is why history repeats itself. Is anyone ready to emerge from their existential sysephyan angst?
> 
> As HHTJ aptly noted essentially the surge is an algorithmic mechanism on a complex but nonetheless concrete value of which is the competition for space. We see it in housing, the formation of Cities, sky scrapers, metroplex and suburban geographical development in cities and human habitation. However in travel and transportation this value, until rideshares developed it's deployment, was never visible and hardly imagined in real time. The taxi meter fare system itself was the result of of just such market reality, an economization of the cities of New York and Chicago in particular.
> 
> ...


Judging buy most of the replies after me and you, we're to smart for most ppl here.


----------



## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

Optimus Uber said:


> The other thing to consider is we are contractors. So by staying offline and waiting for our price (surge), we do work for the rate in which we want to work for.
> 
> If we were employees uber would tell you, you have to be on a certain shift and have to take every call regardless of rate.
> 
> ...


Anytime there's even a whiff of a lawsuit the ambulance chasers are out like a pack of wolves.


----------



## PoorBasterd (Mar 6, 2015)

SibeRescueBrian said:


> Actually, a true punishment would be to mandate that his only income be derived from driving for the company he created. I wonder if he would turn down a tip.


YES! TOTALLY!!! Travis deserves to be force-fed his own medicine!


----------



## PoorBasterd (Mar 6, 2015)

Micmac said:


> By God grace he will go to jail, God makes miracles!
> I m gonna seat and watch this monkey dragged to the cage (jail)!


I wanna be in the court room when the judge says: "_the defendant is hereby remanded to the custody of the penal system_.". I really hope he gets a 300 lbs, gay, cell mate named Bubba.


----------



## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

They should extradite him to North Korea.


----------



## Lnsky (Jan 2, 2016)

Ca$h4 said:


> BACKGROUND: Spencer Meyer brought lawsuit against Travis Kalanick. Uber would have to change it's Model if Uber looses this lawsuit. The case simply says that Uber's model is illegal because it is a* price-fixing conspiracy* when all* Independent Contractors* (Uber Drivers) agree to do jobs at a price set by Uber (Kalanick).
> This article gets into the legal particulars.
> 
> *http://prospect.org/article/uber's-antitrust-problem*


Sherman Antitrust has failed to be a safeguard against monopolies for decades. United skirted it by selling gates to Southwest in Newark. 10 years ago cable companies in my town avoided it by dividing up territory. Only one provider would serve certain parts of a zip code maki it a de facto monopoly but not according to Sherman. Uber is skirting it through collusion with Lyft. Is Lyft not in NYC?

We need an updated ruling from the Supreme Court in regards to Antitrust (not an out moded ruling from the 19th century) but I certainly wouldn't want that precedent setting case to be on Uber.

Uber is a fad not a necessity. People need to get over themselves. People see it as an entitlement but just as driving isn't an entitlement neither is a ride from a stranger cheaper than the price of gas. Get out of my car.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Optimus Uber said:


> The other thing to consider is we are contractors. So by staying offline and waiting for our price (surge), we do work for the rate in which we want to work for.
> 
> If we were employees uber would tell you, you have to be on a certain shift and have to take every call regardless of rate.
> 
> ...


A well told tale. Definitely worth the predictable rating hit in exchange for putting that cheapie in her place. I'm sorry to hear she didn't give you 5 stars. She really should have, after that informative discussion. People learn less at Ted Talks.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Lnsky said:


> Sherman Antitrust has failed to be a safeguard against monopolies for decades. United skirted it by selling gates to Southwest in Newark. 10 years ago cable companies in my town avoided it by dividing up territory. Only one provider would serve certain parts of a zip code maki it a de facto monopoly but not according to Sherman. Uber is skirting it through collusion with Lyft. Is Lyft not in NYC?
> 
> We need an updated ruling from the Supreme Court in regards to Antitrust (not an out moded ruling from the 19th century) but I certainly wouldn't want that precedent setting case to be on Uber.
> 
> Uber is a fad not a necessity. People need to get over themselves. People see it as an entitlement but just as driving isn't an entitlement neither is a ride from a stranger cheaper than the price of gas. Get out of my car.


Whatever happened to that guy with the old gangster photo for his avatar, Lepsky? I think that was the name.


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> its still pretty silly, clearly none of us actually conspired with Travis. We didn't call,text, or communicate with him at all in this "conspiracy" Who would? we all hate him
> just because we wanted to drive for surge only, is a weird way to call it price fixing


Clearly you don't understand price fixing.


----------



## UberJimPHX (Oct 21, 2015)




----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Simon said:


> Are we not all price fixing by staying offline until a surge happens?


No because we don't have any control over what the price is being moved to. All we can do is set our price and then wait for uber to offer that rate.

It's only conspiring with the drivers in the sense that he uses available drivers to drive at the higher price, in fact he's forcing us to because it's not like we can refuse a surged rate. The plaintiff is saying, as independents, drivers should be able to offer a lower price than surge to get the business, because that is how a truly free market system is supposed to work.

No one except the fanboy/girls think uber is ethical. Hopefully the Discovery phase allows them to get inside the inner workings of surge pricing and reveal what a sham it is. Within 45 seconds at the beggining of a surge you might see a 1.4x that you pass on then see a 2.2x that you take. You look at the map and now and there are showing a couple cars available and then surge ends. Other times your sitting in an area with no ubers available and no surge, so you go online and get a request immediately, you skip it cause no surge. the area isn't surging despite no ubers available and requests!

Clearly this isn't just "demand" that's creating surges. THis is an planned and manipulated system and that usually amounts to price fixing.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

DriverX said:


> Clearly you don't understand price fixing.


I know what price fixing is mr know it all, my point is drivers didn't really conspire with Travis, like no one text him or talked to him. Drivers only conspired with Travis purely and soley by the legal definition of price fixing, im talking reality, real life communicating with him, smh. Unless of course you have recorded conversations of several Uber drivers actually talking to Travis and colluding with him???????? SMH


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

DriverX said:


> No because we don't have any control over what the price is being moved to. All we can do is set our price and then wait for uber to offer that rate.
> 
> It's only conspiring with the drivers in the sense that he uses available drivers to drive at the higher price, in fact he's forcing us to because it's not like we can refuse a surged rate. The plaintiff is saying, as independents, drivers should be able to offer a lower price than surge to get the business, because that is how a truly free market system is supposed to work.
> 
> ...


Lot of wrong points in here. We don't set any rates, at ALL. Uber does that

He's not forcing us to do anything. First and foremost you can choose to not drive for Uber. If you do, you can always quit. And you don't have to accept any ping, surge or not,although you said we MUST accept (well cannot refuse a surged rate), surely we can by seeing that surge rate pop up and not accept it.

Uber drivers have NO CONTROL over surge. Just because you refuse to go online, does not mean you are "creating" surge


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Lot of wrong points in here. We don't set any rates, at ALL. Uber does that
> 
> He's not forcing us to do anything. First and foremost you can choose to not drive for Uber. If you do, you can always quit. And you don't have to accept any ping, surge or not,although you said we MUST accept (well cannot refuse a surged rate), surely we can by seeing that surge rate pop up and not accept it.
> 
> Uber drivers have NO CONTROL over surge. Just because you refuse to go online, does not mean you are "creating" surge


Damn your thick headed. You have it set in your mind that it's not price fixing so why bother arguing, just fold your arms and pout about it.

If we are going to accept a request we have to accept the rate thats given, so it is forced on us or we can't drive at all. The point is that if it;s not price fixing then we should be able to offer a competitive rate to the price fixed surge rate!

By not allowing IC drivers to say hey riders Uber is surging but I'll drive for standard rate, choose me. That is a free market where ICs are all competing for business INDEPENDENTLY. but what Uber does is say NO, you are all working at an agreed upon price fixed rate determined by Travis and his BS "algorithm" which isn't a ****ing algo at all.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

DriverX said:


> Damn your thick headed. You have it set in your mind that it's not price fixing so why bother arguing, just fold your arms and pout about it.
> 
> If we are going to accept a request we have to accept the rate thats given, so it is forced on us or we can't drive at all. The point is that if it;s not price fixing then we should be able to offer a competitive rate to the price fixed surge rate!
> 
> By not allowing IC drivers to say hey riders Uber is surging but I'll drive for standard rate, choose me. That is a free market where ICs are all competing for business INDEPENDENTLY. but what Uber does is say NO, you are all working at an agreed upon price fixed rate determined by Travis and his BS "algorithm" which isn't a &%[email protected]!*ing algo at all.


Guess your reading comprehension isn't that great, I already said it WAS price fixing by legal definition .

Point is, no matter what the rate, you do NOT have to accept it. You said we can't refuse, we SURELY can. We could refuse a surged rate and only accept a non-surge one if we wanted to.(just that the smart ones of course accept the surge ones, and refuse the non-surge ones)

Also you clearly said drivers can set their price. Explain that one sir. Never seen any driver set their own price


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> I know what price fixing is mr know it all, my point is drivers didn't really conspire with Travis, like no one text him or talked to him. Drivers only conspired with Travis purely and soley by the legal definition of price fixing, im talking reality, real life communicating with him, smh. Unless of course you have recorded conversations of several Uber drivers actually talking to Travis and colluding with him???????? SMH


There doesn't have to direct communication between Travis and drivers, the drivers are the unwitting participants so it's not on them.

That would be like holding the cashiers at wal-mart responsible in a scheme where they fixed prices so low as to drive out all the competition. It's on the guy orchestrating the price fix.


----------



## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

DriverX said:


> There doesn't have to direct communication between Travis and drivers, the drivers are the unwitting participants so it's not on them.
> 
> That would be like holding the cashiers at wal-mart responsible in a scheme where they fixed prices so low as to drive out all the competition. It's on the guy orchestrating the price fix.


Continued bad reading comprehension, why do I have to repeat what I just said? I said it WAS price fixing, yet you're still debating me on it? smh


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Bart McCoy said:


> Guess your reading comprehension isn't that great, I already said it WAS price fixing by legal definition .
> 
> Point is, no matter what the rate, you do NOT have to accept it. You said we can't refuse, we SURELY can. We could refuse a surged rate and only accept a non-surge one if we wanted to.(just that the smart ones of course accept the surge ones, and refuse the non-surge ones)
> 
> Also you clearly said drivers can set their price. Explain that one sir. Never seen any driver set their own price


OK so you agree that Travis is price fixing! THen why are still arguing.

Good bye!


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Don't like the name calling, but you make the point clearly. Payments are made through the app, and there's no mechanism allowing IC's to adjust pricing per demand at their own discretion.

Uber should stay out of the rate setting in general, but SURGE is the best way to illustrate the problem and has the best opportunity for gaining legal traction. It's the "pain point" around which public opinion could sway the legal opinion.


----------



## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

The Uber "algorithm" is basically a program reminding managers to push the SURGE button whenever they feel like it. They just like to pretend that it's really complicated scientific stuff. That way there's less push back from customers.


----------



## HHTJ (Dec 13, 2015)

DriverX said:


> No because we don't have any control over what the price is being moved to. All we can do is set our price and then wait for uber to offer that rate.
> 
> It's only conspiring with the drivers in the sense that he uses available drivers to drive at the higher price, in fact he's forcing us to because it's not like we can refuse a surged rate. The plaintiff is saying, as independents, drivers should be able to offer a lower price than surge to get the business, because that is how a truly free market system is supposed to work.
> 
> ...


Unless I'm missing something here, of course the surge constantly changes because people sign on sign off, leave an area, arrive in an area. You're thinking that there's a bunch if drivers that are just sitting in one place? Idk bout you but I'm constantly in motion. So it seems to be a driver to rider ratio.


----------



## HHTJ (Dec 13, 2015)

DriverX said:


> No because we don't have any control over what the price is being moved to. All we can do is set our price and then wait for uber to offer that rate.
> 
> It's only conspiring with the drivers in the sense that he uses available drivers to drive at the higher price, in fact he's forcing us to because it's not like we can refuse a surged rate. The plaintiff is saying, as independents, drivers should be able to offer a lower price than surge to get the business, because that is how a truly free market system is supposed to work.
> 
> ...


How are you setting rates because I sure dont have that option AT ALL.


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

HHTJ said:


> How are you setting rates because I sure dont have that option AT ALL.


Stay OFFLINE until it surges to your preferred rate. It usually take noobs about 6-9 months to figure that out. The ones that don't, quit because they are losing money or get deactivated because they suck or can't hack dealing with the public. When the latest wave of noobs starts to flame out, surge will be back. You can't do this job full time unless your burn rate is so low that you can afford to just say **** it and only drive surge even when it's not surging becasue uber flooded the market with drivers again. thing is they have about 6 month shelf life which isn't enough time for them to figure out how to make a profit.


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

HHTJ said:


> Unless I'm missing something here, of course the surge constantly changes because people sign on sign off, leave an area, arrive in an area. You're thinking that there's a bunch if drivers that are just sitting in one place? Idk bout you but I'm constantly in motion. So it seems to be a driver to rider ratio.


Drivers can control surging. We were doing it about 4 months ago before all the new drivers horned in for the $750 referrals and left themselves logged in all day. $300 days weren't that hard to do if you rode the surge, but until the noobs figure it out or flame out the surge is dead. # weeks ago I made $800 in 3 days 30 hours online. half of that was surge money. Thats your target. Now stay offline, until 2x.


----------



## HHTJ (Dec 13, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Drivers can control surging. We were doing it about 4 months ago before all the new drivers horned in for the $750 referrals and left themselves logged in all day. $300 days weren't that hard to do if you rode the surge, but until the noobs figure it out or flame out the surge is dead. # weeks ago I made $800 in 3 days 30 hours online. half of that was surge money. Thats your target. Now stay offline, until 2x.


We still have no control over that. Say there is a surge at 90/294 area, rosement. Then if 30 drivers sign on all at once in that specific area, the surge will drop or disappear. Swiftly. This is why when you see a surge downtown, and drive to it, it changes color then disappears because perhaps 10-20 drivers (or whatever number) chased the surge, but then the area they just left becomes a surge. but i wont argue this no more because i've repeated a few times if others missed it.


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

You're not doing it right. You only drive to a surge if your going there anyway or you know it will last long enough to make it. You need to be in an area that surges and be OFFLINE. preferably be at your house where you can chill and do other things while waiting. Now hopefully a bunch of jackass drivers aren't loitering around your spot with their apps online. Just because those idiots will drive for 1x doesn't mean you have to. Start giving them phony requests if they won't leave., which will also helps it surge. Then when it starts to surge, remain patient. I wait for 2x so that I don't get any of those Que'd up 1.5x requests lingering around. THe impatient drivers who always jump in at like 1.2 can eat that sh*t. Hit it at 2x and wait. You'll notice on the pax app all the other sharks start popping online because they smell blood. then wait, maybe get a ride maybe you don't. but if you do, it will probably be 2x or higher. Yes the surge is fast these days so you have to be ready at any given moment to pounce on it. This isn't a job that you can schedule other than weekend nights. That's the point, no schedule.


----------



## tommyboy (Mar 10, 2016)

Some day on a pickup a driver will say I'm sorry but I can't do the trip for that amount


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Since when is lying about your identity to investigate something illegal or improper?
> 
> This is a fluff suit Uber will win. We are allowed to negotiate lower rates so it could hardly be called anti-competitive or price fixing. Just lawyers being lawyers looking for a payday.


What a doofus.
It's not about negotiating lower rates, its about manipulating surge to extort higher rates.
I remember guys like you from when we were kids.
You are a classic over reacher, SPED kid trying to hang out with the track 2 crowd.
Intelligence and wisdom don't work by osmosis.


----------



## tommyboy (Mar 10, 2016)

Of money had I known the price I would have advised you prior to coming and both of our times would have been saved. The customer then says I will give you X amount of dollars to complete the trip. The drivers accepts completes the trip and is deactivated. The driver then sues uber. That incident will when reviewed by the judicial system will redefine the rideshare Industry on several different levels. It's probably already occurred. When it rises to the surface we will know as drivers where we stand legally as to the true nature of our partnership and where we stand legally in this industry as a whole


----------



## rocksteady (Mar 19, 2015)

How can it be considered price fixing when it's between a business and its contracted workers? Isn't price fixing multiple businesses getting together and conspiring on what price to offer a good or service? if Lyft and Uber got together to agree on a market price, that would be price fixing. Fedex uses contracted drivers for some of its services. It's not considered price fixing to charge their customers a price for those services because the drivers, by accepting fedex's terms of contract and compensation, are conspiring to fix prices simply by acting within the terms set by fedex-the contractor who is responsible for offering the contract in exchange for their labor/resources. 

The plaintiff is really reaching. There are many legitimate reasons Uber should be sued. This is not one of them.


----------



## rocksteady (Mar 19, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Staying logged off and watching the pax app until surge is most definitely conspiracy to create surge.
> There are 100,000 posts about that very method on this forum.
> Expect them to use your own words to penalize Uber.


No it's not. For drivers, it's deciding what price they're willing to work for. A conspiracy would mean all parties involved are together deciding on a plan of action which is not the case. Drivers didn't conspire with Uber to gauge prices. Contract Drivers are simply using the pricing created and controlled by Uber to choose what amount of compensation they are willing to work for. The customer also has other options for transportation services.


----------



## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

Feisal Mo said:


> I am sure there will be no tears for Travis Kalanick going to jail.
> 
> "The Court finds that plaintiff has provided an entirely 'reasonable basis' to suspect the perpetration of a fraud and to suspect that Uber communications furthered such a fraud," Rakoff wrote.
> 
> ...


How is this fraud . Uber ceo price fixing with driver WTF . This is the dumbest case I ever heard . This guy what ever his name is Spenser Meyer going cop the biggest legal fee in his life for this if he loose . This is serious matter uber will keep appealing the case until this guy become bankrupt


----------



## tommyboy (Mar 10, 2016)

We are underpaid and it will become impossible over time to maintain a driver base. Don't sell you self short 17 percent of Texas have a dui and many more with bad driving records. That fact unto itself makes us more value. We reduce dui arrests substantially. Sooner or later driver scarcity will arrive along with more competition. Better days are ahead. The same economic reasons that created ride share will eventually lead to our true economic and social value to to recognized. In the mean time stay proud hold your head high you the driver are making the world a better place one ride at a time.


----------



## tommyboy (Mar 10, 2016)

I agree that this is not price fixing. Who in there right mind price fixes for a lower price,which is essentially what uber has done. You know your prices are to low when the customers tell you it's to cheap and agree with surge pricing because they know we're under paid. Totally absurd strategy and tactics for a start up company. It's almost as though the strategy is self distruction by stupidity. Haven’t heard any more about the threat to leave houston. But this I do know when the mayor of the 4 LARGEST city in the United states says he felt as though they put a "gun to his head "does not engender a feeling of negotiating in good faith or a belief that they are a positive addition to the community. What I don't understand is how they can deliver an ultimatum of that nature and still advertise for drivers. Again more concrete examples of mismanagement mis direction missing the target or not having a understanding of the fundamental nature of the business they are in.The market has a way of working out these inefficiencies or in our case inequalities. Hopefully for uber they are still in a position to make the necessary changes prior to the imposed changes that will surely arrive in the not to distant future


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

tommyboy said:


> I agree that this is not price fixing. Who in there right mind price fixes for a lower price,which is essentially what uber has done. You know your prices are to low when the customers tell you it's to cheap and agree with surge pricing because they know we're under paid. Totally absurd strategy and tactics for a start up company. It's almost as though the strategy is self distruction by stupidity. Haven't heard any more about the threat to leave houston. But this I do know when the mayor of the 4 LARGEST city in the United states says he felt as though they put a "gun to his head "does not engender a feeling of negotiating in good faith or a belief that they are a positive addition to the community. What I don't understand is how they can deliver an ultimatum of that nature and still advertise for drivers. Again more concrete examples of mismanagement mis direction missing the target or not having a understanding of the fundamental nature of the business they are in.The market has a way of working out these inefficiencies or in our case inequalities. Hopefully for uber they are still in a position to make the necessary changes prior to the imposed changes that will surely arrive in the not to distant future


Price fixing works both ways.
Uber fixes prices lower to kill the competition.
Drivers fix prices by forcing surge to actually make a living.
Isn't Wealth Of Nations required reading anymore in college?


----------



## Xxx sucker (Jan 3, 2016)

Feisal Mo said:


> I am sure there will be no tears for Travis Kalanick going to jail.
> 
> "The Court finds that plaintiff has provided an entirely 'reasonable basis' to suspect the perpetration of a fraud and to suspect that Uber communications furthered such a fraud," Rakoff wrote.
> 
> ...


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> What a doofus.
> It's not about negotiating lower rates, its about manipulating surge to extort higher rates.
> I remember guys like you from when we were kids.
> You are a classic over reacher, SPED kid trying to hang out with the track 2 crowd.
> Intelligence and wisdom don't work by osmosis.


They don't surge to extort higher rates, they surge to keep the service available. When a market is saturated, surge goes down or disappears for the most part. Unlike taxis that have set rates and can be impossible to find when it's busy. Why do people pay surge when taxis are cheaper? Because there are no taxis available.

You don't seem to realise what on-demand means.


----------



## nash801 (Apr 17, 2016)

UberHammer said:


> A toast?!?! Hell, I say we chug a beer for every year in jail Kaladick got sentanced to.


But we'd have to take an uber to/fro the party


----------



## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> They don't surge to extort higher rates, they surge to keep the service available. When a market is saturated, surge goes down or disappears for the most part. Unlike taxis that have set rates and can be impossible to find when it's busy. Why do people pay surge when taxis are cheaper? Because there are no taxis available.
> 
> You don't seem to realise what on-demand means.


The surge algo takes in account historical data that uber has accumulated over time to predict when business will increase. THey frequently surge areas at the top of the hour anticipating people need to travel regardless of id their is business or not. Haven't you been sitting in a surge with no other ubers around and not gotten a ride? If you paid attention to the rider app you would notice this happens frequently. So there was no demand and a surge, why would uber do that? for a lot of reasons the most obvious being that they anticipate the need for drivers in an area, like SAN for instance. so they surge the area ahead of time to get the drones to go over there and cover the area with nearby cheap rides becasue that;s what makes pax happy.

Uber has their fingers on the surge dial for sure.


----------



## nash801 (Apr 17, 2016)

Oh yeah it pisses me off. I've been accusing them of fake surges along time now and send them screen shots of white spot in front of my car as I enter surge area


----------

