# Uber promotes subprime auto loans to increase driver pool



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...ajam&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow


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## rjenkins (Nov 30, 2014)

Another good reminder that making bad decisions does not get one out of a lifetime of bad decisions.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

rjenkins said:


> Another good reminder that making bad decisions does not get one out of a lifetime of bad decisions.


*Enough of this blame the victim!
*
_"After a series of missed payments, which Roger blames on Uber's late start in making its automated deductions, those weekly payment amounts have now risen to $450, he says."_
Please read this thread for other instances of Drivers incurring late fees due to Uber's inability to remit payments to Santander in a timely fashion:
*uber lease after 6 months happy
*


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

This is just from today:


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*My Uber Experience. From Working with Uber To Homeless Sleeping In My New Uber Car.*








Sid Jeri ( @SJeri on Twitter )
*http://myuberexperience.blogspot.com/?m=1*
This Driver experienced every possible Uber nightmare. There are 3 letters to TravisK in this blog. Read oldest to newest.

Latest post
http://myuberexperience.blogspot.com/2015/03/arathi-called-with-uber-trying-to-trick.html?m=1


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## rjenkins (Nov 30, 2014)

I stand by my statement. People need to take responsibility for themselves. Trusting a company that has proven over and over that it cares nothing for drivers welfare is a bad decision. Uber can change its business model at any time, for any reason. Roger made assumptions. Roger signed a contract to pay $227 A WEEK. Roger got burned.

_*He says his 52-month lease calls for weekly payments of $227 on the minivan, to be deducted automatically by Uber from his earnings. Roger knew this was a steep lending rate but was confident he could handle it. "Even though I was paying through the nose for the car, I thought that it would be OK - I'd be making enough money to cover it.*_

This is wishful thinking. Something we've all probably done, at some point. Just don't blame anybody but yourself.

Uber may have made it worse, but it is a bad decision, even without the mismanagement.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

rjenkins said:


> I stand by my statement.


 Off course you do! While ignoring my rebuttal of your post that Uber's been routinely missing payments to Santander.

Ooh the irony! Seems like that the bottom of the barrel Santander is walking away from Uber financing!
https://uberpeople.net/threads/thoughts-on-ubers-new-flexible-lease-program.19009/#post-289279

Blaming the victim just jives so much better with some ideology, I guess!
Oh well...let the lill' guy get screwed so ideologues can keep their "personal responsibility" perspective pristine!


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

rjenkins here's another victim for you to blame:


Jackie murphy said:


> Stay the **** away from Santander if you didn't sign a loan run away .I got ****ed hard Uber never took payments for first 6 weeks then Santander charged late fees then I shit you not Santander / Uber have taken 10 weeks of double payments and still tell me I'm a month behind .The only way to get even is to return the Van and declare Bankruptcy so that's what I'm doing . Great job Santander/Uber great business decision you get back a 2014 Chrysler Town and Country with 60 k that's hit everything except the lotto 20 over miles allowed .They would not work with me so now they get back UberMobileUberMobile


https://uberpeople.net/threads/thoughts-on-ubers-new-flexible-lease-program.19009/page-2#post-293605

Attn Jackie murphy


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## rjenkins (Nov 30, 2014)

You do love drama, don't you. 

Roger was foolish to sign that deal, for several reasons. I won't bother to point them out because all you seem interested in doing is hating on Uber, rather than warning people not to be like Roger and the others.

Some people will always go through life being victims. This is because they make poor decisions. Pointing that out is not only being realistic, it is the only chance of helping them.

I ignored nothing. As I stated above, "Uber may have made it worse..." 

I don't need a lot of words to make a point, if someone is interested in getting it.


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## KGB7 (Apr 23, 2015)

There is an old saying that applies in this situation; "Dont hate the player, hate the game".

"Due Diligence" should be part of every ones vocabulary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

rjenkins said:


> you seem interested in doing is hating on Uber, rather than warning people not to be like Roger and the others.


Actually if I'm doing anything at all, it's warning New Drivers to run away from Uber's Santander Financing for a multiple reasons. I've put Drivers who'd financed cars in contact with reporters who've written about it.
I collected/curated posts & threads from All over the internet from Drivers about their Uber/Santander horror stories, as a warning for New Drivers.

My gratitude to you for doing your part in warning drivers by adding this afterthought


rjenkins said:


> "Uber may have made it worse..."


 in your victim blaming post


rjenkins said:


> Some people will always go through life being victims.


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> *My Uber Experience. From Working with Uber To Homeless Sleeping In My New Uber Car.*


After reading as much of that blog as I could understand that guy clearly brought it upon himself. Granted he should have never been given the lease, but his own inability to manage his life is the real issue.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Fauxknight said:


> After reading as much of that blog as I could understand that guy clearly brought it upon himself. Granted he should have never been given the lease, but his own inability to manage his lfe is the real issue.


Something is sorta off with him too.
 
I'd invited him to the forum, but I don't think he's ever posted here.


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Something is sorta off with him too.
> 
> I'd invited him to the forum, but I don't think he's ever posted here.


Too bad, we could have sorted out his life pretty easily before it went that far. Just picking up a burner phone and using Uber's BYOD plan would have saved him a lot of trouble, plus been cheaper than paying for the Uber phone. Then we could have pointed out he was spending too much on rent and we would have also told him to not pick an Avalon for UberX. Could have cut his bills by possibly $500-$600/month and kept him on the road.

...not to mention that he saved up for his down payment at a $10/hr job rather than taking a call center or pizza delivery driver job, both of which are easy to get and generally net $11-$15/hr. Also he apparently quit that $10/hr job outright rather than working both jobs together even briefly to make sure he could make money as an Uber driver.

Just too many loopholes, a total lack of common sense, and no ability to manage money at all.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> Off course you do! While ignoring my rebuttal of your post that Uber's been routinely missing payments to Santander.
> 
> Ooh the irony! Seems like that the bottom of the barrel Santander is walking away from Uber financing!
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/thoughts-on-ubers-new-flexible-lease-program.19009/#post-289279
> ...


It is called predatory lending for a reason. There should be careful thought given to determining the role of Uber and Santander's fiduciary duty to the borrower. The need for the car and feasibility of the loans are based on fabricated and grossly distorted projected earnings and very much in spite of the acknowledged credit history of the borrower.

Even a person of sound mind with stellar credit, without another source of income would be likely to default on such a loan. I'm not sure that point could be contested. The catch 22 is that the moment you accept such a loan, well, exactly how sound minded were you? "Well I was promised."

Uber is supposed to be the future. They were promised a future.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

rjenkins said:


> I stand by my statement. People need to take responsibility for themselves. Trusting a company that has proven over and over that it cares nothing for drivers welfare is a bad decision. Uber can change its business model at any time, for any reason. Roger made assumptions. Roger signed a contract to pay $227 A WEEK. Roger got burned.
> 
> _*He says his 52-month lease calls for weekly payments of $227 on the minivan, to be deducted automatically by Uber from his earnings. Roger knew this was a steep lending rate but was confident he could handle it. "Even though I was paying through the nose for the car, I thought that it would be OK - I'd be making enough money to cover it.*_
> 
> ...


How bout all the current rideshare drivers operating without proper insurance? Have you real coverage on your car to fill the gaps? Where do you draw the line at pointing fingers when things fall apart? If a driver fails on those terms, often its not that they need to take responsibility, it's more a matter of failing to hide what they were doing when it most mattered.

Do you have some sort of coverage that covers damage to your car in phase one for example? I don't know your circumstances, my point is, it's best to look around. Thousands of people have sipped the cool-aide.

You suggest "Roger got burned" That implies Roger was on the receiving end of wrongdoing. By you own language you find that to be the case. The people who did the lending knew well enough that Roger was in fact getting burned. They knew full well. That makes a huge difference.

Here is a common complaint: The system used to rate drivers is broken. It is not broken, it is corrupt and manipulative. The loans are usury. Look it up, give it some thought and share it here on the thread.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

My goodness! Now I am really glad that I went to my friendly, local Ford dealer and financed the thing on my own credit. I did look into Santander. I filled out the application and got approved. The advert that they sent told me that I could have a Fusion Hybrid or a gasolene Camry. I wanted a hybrid and did not want the Toyota. When I called, they told me that all that I could have was the Toyota. I said "No, thank you". If they had told me, at the time, that the payments were going to be deducted from my UberX earnings, I would have told him that unless I could write my own cheque for the payments, I would not be interested. I was not going to trust someone else to do something for me when I had signed a paper that stated that I was responsible. If the third party had failed, it would not be the third party that Santander would hold responsible; it would be ME.

As it turned out, Santander would have had a hard time getting paid from my UberX earnings. When I signed on to UberX, it was $1,40 per mile. Not enough, but I figured that it was still worth looking into, as there was the efficiency factor (not having to deadhead back to the City from Virginia, for one) and surges. I was learning very quickly that without a surge, there really was not that much money. Once the first wave of "New and Exciting Fares" hit, I went to "only enough to stay in the game". When the "Even Newer and More Exciting" fares came, it kept me at "only enough to stay in the game". It would have taken two m onths for Santander to get one week's payment from my UberX earnings. Santander would have _had_ to take a cheque from me, if it really wanted to get paid, that is.


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## Jeremy Joe (Jan 16, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> Something is sorta off with him too.
> 
> I'd invited him to the forum, but I don't think he's ever posted here.


wait a minute, you INVITED HIM here to the forum so he can ***** and moan about how "Uber screwed him up".

remember this - he bought a brand new Avalon - this car has a base price of $32000 + sales tax, and that's just for the base model. Now with Santander's high interest rate, he will end up paying about twice as much, perhaps $65-70,000, just for the car to Uber in, at what? $0.75 cents a mile?

Smart decision, right? Quite a genius, ain't he?

and by you inviting him here, you can relish in saying "see, I found yet another innocent victim screwed over by Uber." What you've really found is a moron with no sense whatsoever.

So how exactly will his presence here help, other than spread baseless pessimism?

If you want to invite people here, just make sure you invite people who have at least some element of common sense, instead of losers and naysayers. Thank you.


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

Jeremy Joe said:


> wait a minute, you INVITED HIM here to the forum so he can ***** and moan about how "Uber screwed him up".
> 
> If you want to invite people here, just make sure you invite people who have at least some element of common sense, instead of losers and naysayers. Thank you.


While I agree he seems to blame his issues on anyone but himself, I also agree with inviting him here. If there was even the slight chance we could have prevented this guy from wrecking his life (further) then we are obliged to at least attempt to do so.


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## Robinhood (May 7, 2015)

Jeremy Joe said:


> he actually bought an Avalon to Uber in? Avalons retail at $34,000 and with Santander's high interest rate, he'd probably pay $65,000-$70,000 for the car in total.
> 
> Now note he has no money to pay rent, survives on oatmeals as per his own blog, yet splurges 70k for a car to Uber in. LOL.
> 
> All I can say is some people are so intellectually deficient that they are just simply beyond help.


"A drowning man clutches at a straw."

Most people on here seem to forget that. A lot of people sign these leases and get cars to try to make an honest living but are being taken advantage of. Ask Wells Fargo and the other banks how much they paid in fees for predatory lending. Even Payday loans and similar companies got reined in. Business is business but only desperate or uneducated or foolish people think leasing a Camry for 1000/ month is worthwhile. I can't blame the first two, can you?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Jeremy Joe said:


> wait a minute, you INVITED HIM here to the forum so he can ***** and moan about how "Uber screwed him up".


The forum exists for Drivers to share info & advice. There isn't a Driver in more dire need of info & advice than








Sid Jeri ( @SJeri on Twitter )
*http://myuberexperience.blogspot.com/?m=1*


Jeremy Joe said:


> If you want to invite people here, just make sure you invite people who have at least some element of common sense, instead of losers and naysayers. Thank you.


I invite all takers. I'm not prejudicial in who I reference the forum to.
Thank you!


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## rjenkins (Nov 30, 2014)

You people are all over the map on this, bringing insurance and other issues into the conversation.

Aside from what big, bad Uber does (their motives are discussed to death, and I don't care to rehash them), I merely advocate personal responsibility. Even on the surface, the Uber/Santander model is flawed and suspect to any rational person. When I first saw it, I immediately wondered, "Well, what happens if I don't make enough money in a week to pay the loan?" Or, "What if I am deactivated by Uber for some reason?" Or, "What if I decide to go on vacation and don't drive for a couple of weeks. Or, "What if opportunity dries up and I can't make enough, no matter how much I try to drive?"

Tying something so significant as a car note into an Uber paycheck was obviously not smart. Things go bad with Uber, it goes bad with Santander. Don't pay your note with Santander, it might affect your relationship with Uber, and your ability to earn money with them. This is co-mingling in a very bad way.

If I had looked into it further, and saw the rates and terms, it would have been even more obvious that this was bad news all the way around.

For people with subprime credit, there have always been tons of options available on their own.

But hey, I believe that sometimes people who do stupid things (call them victims if you want, but that's just a whiny liberal pejorative term) need a thunk on the forehead, with a "HEY! That was dumb! Don't do that anymore." It's generally a lot more effective than trying to change the system directly.

You help people your way, and I will help them my way. Time for me to go make some money, now..


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## Jeremy Joe (Jan 16, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> The forum exists for Drivers to share info & advice. There isn't a Driver in more dire need of info & advice than
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with you on this. Coming to think of it, I am starting to feel sorry for him - and have listed the mistakes he made that could have been avoided had he heard of this forum and had read the posts here.

1) He would not have bought a new luxury car - Avalon, where the base model costs 32k before sales tax. 
2) He certainly would not have signed up with Santander where he'd end up paying probably 65-70,000 dollars when interest and fees are addded.
3) He would not have chosen the Avalon that gives just 21mpg city and 31 on the highway.
4) Rates in his area Charlotte, NC are $1 per mile.

We could have told him it is not very practical to rdive people around in a brand new luxury car with shitty mileage at this low rate.

It makes me sad to think that people who cannot do even such basic elementary math actually exist, and wish we could have helped him.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

rjenkins said:


> I stand by my statement. People need to take responsibility for themselves. Trusting a company that has proven over and over that it cares nothing for drivers welfare is a bad decision.


This is about the most ridiculous dribble. You must live in a bubble. There are thousands and thousands of good people who don't have the advantages of an education, or family, or even a home, who could easily be duped by Uber into believing their program is good for a driver. Uber does get some good press occassionaly, too. Just look at their deceptive ads and their predatory practices. They're not *selling* a business opportunity, they're *selling* a part-time JOB. Who researches a part-time job? Uber has stooges out there selling this deceptive "dream" because they can earn more recruiting than driving. It's deplorable and it needs to stop. Blaming those who have been duped is incomprehensible. It seems you have no compassion for those that are less fortunate and less educated than yourself.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

J. D. said:


> It's deplorable and it needs to stop.


What I find most deplorable is that Uber's peddling this to Military Veterans with the help of Veterans organizations such as Hiring Our Heroes! And Uber/Santander financing was a highly touted component of this!

*#UberMILITARY | Uber's preferred car-loan partner has been illegally repossessing veterans' cars*

*#UberMILITARY | Are There Any Military Veterans on this Forum?*


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> What I find most deplorable is that Uber's peddling this to Military Veterans with the help of Veterans organizations such as Hiring Our Heroes! And Uber/Santander financing was a highly touted component of this!
> 
> *#UberMILITARY | Uber's preferred car-loan partner has been illegally repossessing veterans' cars*
> 
> *#UberMILITARY | Are There Any Military Veterans on this Forum?*


Exactly! If this was someone's first exposure to Uber, why would they question Uber's ethics?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

I agree that the guy with the phone issue was not the sharpest tool in the box. If his phone didn't work then he could have found a way around it. I took on a Santander lease and then got the runaround from Uber regarding sending me a phone. First they said they had sent one, then they would not give me a tracking number, then said I should wait another week etc etc.

My solution was to get in touch with Santander by phone. I just told them that I really liked the car, but for them not to expect me to be making any payments on it anytime soon. Disappointed by this news, they phoned Uber and must have told them to get their shit together; Uber gave me a phone the next day.

Anyway, the point is that just because one guy did not handle his situation correctly, it does not mean that other drivers who have conducted their lease 100% correctly are not now being shafted by Santander. The company is now trying to unilaterally change the payment terms of the leases and charging significantly more than drivers agreed to.

An Uber rep told me off the record this week that one of the reasons Uber is no longer partnered with Santander is because the latter increased the APR on some drivers' leases _after_ they signed the lease and doubled weekly payments to cover it. However you look at this, this is not drivers' fault.


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## Jeremy Joe (Jan 16, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> What I find most deplorable is that Uber's peddling this to Military Veterans with the help of Veterans organizations such as Hiring Our Heroes! And Uber/Santander financing was a highly touted component of this!
> 
> *#UberMILITARY | Uber's preferred car-loan partner has been illegally repossessing veterans' cars*
> 
> *#UberMILITARY | Are There Any Military Veterans on this Forum?*


Selling this santander BS to military veterans is the LOWEST Uber could possibly stoop.


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## Jeremy Joe (Jan 16, 2015)

J. D. said:


> This is about the most ridiculous dribble. You must live in a bubble. There are thousands and thousands of good people who don't have the advantages of an education, or family, or even a home, who could easily be duped by Uber into believing their program is good for a driver. Uber does get some good press occassionaly, too. Just look at their deceptive ads and their predatory practices. They're not *selling* a business opportunity, they're *selling* a part-time JOB. Who researches a part-time job? Uber has stooges out there selling this deceptive "dream" because they can earn more recruiting than driving. It's deplorable and it needs to stop. Blaming those who have been duped is incomprehensible. It seems you have no compassion for those that are less fortunate and less educated than yourself.


It is not dribble. It is a fact of life.

dude, you seriously do not need an education to figure out that buying a new $70,000 luxury car to Uber in at $1 a mile is not SMART (like that guy Roger did). Even if you spend 5 seconds doing a simple Google search "Is Santander a good deal for Uber drivers?" and scroll less than half page down the search results, you'll come across this forum and get to learn everything you need to know about how bad it really is.

And I don't think an "education" is required to do a simple Google search.

You don't seem to realize it but there is indeed something in this world call "personal responsibility."


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## Jeremy Joe (Jan 16, 2015)

elelegido said:


> An Uber rep told me off the record this week that one of the reasons Uber is no longer partnered with Santander is because the latter increased the APR on some drivers' leases _after_ they signed the lease and doubled weekly payments to cover it. However you look at this, this is not drivers' fault.


If that is actually true - then I see a class action lawsuit waiting to happen. Lawyers would probably be salivating just at the thought of it.

What's more likely is that the original paperwork must have had a clause that if a certain number of payments are late, then the APR goes up - and this is pretty much the norm. It's the same with credit card companies as well. They raise the APR after a few missed pymts to reflect the additional risks.

Now if the payments were missed or delayed because of a screw-up on Uber's part, then I totally agree with the Uber-bashing. But if the driver did not work, and hence the funds weren't there for Santander to be paid, then it's the driver's fault.


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## Jeremy Joe (Jan 16, 2015)

J. D. said:


> Uber has stooges out there selling this deceptive "dream" because they can earn more recruiting than driving. It's deplorable and it needs to stop.


Sheer nonsense!

Of course, this "dream" is going to become a nightmare if you do what this roger guy did.

But on the other hand, if you:
1) buy a USED gas-saving Prius and
2) drive part time and
3)also spend downtime productively - reviewing some online tutorials on your tablet in order to learn a new skill - nowadays, almost everything is available online, then why is this Uber thing so bad?

It isn't totally terrible - you can make at the very least $7 an hour NET, perhaps even $12+ an hr with the right car and guarantee/ surges and plus have some downtime in between pings to spend productively.

Plus you have the flexibility of your own schedule - work any time of day or night. And it's much better than flipping burgers at McDonald's. And plus your taxes won't be much due to IRS deductions.

So then tell me why it's still a "deceptive dream", as you put it?

Like any other business, Ubering requires a strategy that minimizes costs.

Buy a 7 year old used car with great mileage like a Prius or Corolla or Honda Fit, and you'll be just fine. It'll cost about $6,500 (more for a Prius) and has good resale value.

On the other hand - follow in Roger's footsteps, and buy a luxury gas guzzler for $70,000 to drive at $1 a mile, and it'll end in a disaster. Can't blame Uber for everything, you see.

Also, I'm in no way trying to say Uber is a "dream" job - it obviously isn't, just saying compared to other minimum wage jobs, it is far better.


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## DriverJ (Sep 1, 2014)

rjenkins said:


> You do love drama, don't you.
> 
> Roger was foolish to sign that deal, for several reasons. I won't bother to point them out because all you seem interested in doing is hating on Uber, rather than warning people not to be like Roger and the others.
> 
> ...


I believe we all know these people are making bad decisions here, but the point is - UBER SUCKS. They are the worst company in the history of the world, and Travis Kalanick is a weak little weasel of a man.


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## Jeremy Joe (Jan 16, 2015)

DriverJ said:


> I believe we all know these people are making bad decisions here, but the point is - UBER SUCKS. They are the worst company in the history of the world, and Travis Kalanick is a weak little weasel of a man.


It's a very "ethically challenged company" as that VC guy Peter Thiel put it.


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