# Uber is just eBay for your car miles



## CommanderXL (Jun 17, 2015)

This is all an illusion. Uber is just eBay for your car miles.

We are not producing anything and we are not really providing a service, so thinking of this as "pay," "earnings" or "wages" is all wrong. Just like thinking you're getting paid for your time when you sell an item on eBay.

Uber sells this crafty illusion that drivers are earning an hourly income by driving people, but this is not the reality.

Drivers prepaid for each mile they drive when they purchased their vehicles, bought tires, brakes, oil changes and fuel, and when they paid for insurance and registration fees, etc. All that money is now in the form of "stored" miles just sitting there in the vehicle waiting to be spent (driven). But they are limited. There are only so many miles stored in the vehicle.

So drivers are simply selling what they already own (miles) to buyers who want them (passengers) and Uber manages the transaction for a percentage of the sales total.

This is just like selling your junk on eBay. It is no different than having a closet full of Star Wars collectibles that you purchased through the years and decide to sell. However much you make, it was already yours. You just didn't have a way to convert it into cash.

And just like eBay, Uber takes a cut of the sale. *All the money generated by the transaction for both the seller (driver) and eBay (Uber) doesn't really come from the buyer (passenger). It comes from the existing value of the item (mile) being sold.* eBay doesn't make any money when someone BUYS an item, they make their money when someone SELLS an item. Uber, on the other hand, also charges the buyer a Safe Rider Fee. (Imagine if eBay charged buyers a $2 "Safe Transaction Fee" on every purchase. Smh.) Nor does eBay set the price for the item, as Uber does.

And also just like an eBay transaction, all of the labor (driving) involved in selling the item (mile) is absorbed by the seller (driver). All the time an eBay seller spends cleaning up an item, taking a picture, creating a listing, packing and mailing an item is just like the time spent driving the passenger each mile you sold them. It's typically not considered in the price and is uncompensated. At the end of your garage sale you don't say to yourself, "I just made $20/hr.!" You say, "I just sold my stuff for $400!"

Uber calling this pay or earnings is egregious. Its like if eBay advertised "Earn $100/hr working with eBay!" You're not "earning." You're not "working." And you're certainly not "working with eBay." You're selling stuff you already paid for and own. And someone else is taking a percentage of its value as a fee. (And in Uber's case, also charging the buyer a fee.)

At the end of both an eBay transaction and an Uber ride, there is cash in your pocket. Hopefully more than the value of what you already had. If there is, its profit. It's not pay or earnings.


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## Transportador (Sep 15, 2015)

You are sooo right! I know I am trading miles for cash. It's a way to make extra money selling part of my car slowly. The trick is to optimize this by not driving an expensive, high maintenance car. If you do it on a good used car that has depreciated a lot already, you win. It's kinda like drinking McD's coffee at $1.00 a cup vs. StarBucks at $2.00...


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## WholetoneRev (Nov 29, 2015)

Yeah man you just explained the entire monetary system in general / newtonian physics too. Energy cannot be gained nor lost only converted into another form.... we get paid from an employer for time and energy and (most of the world) get paid just enough to not starve to death to have enough energy to come back into work the next day to do it all over again.... whats the point? 

Life in general is "The Matrix" we are all born into slavery and we can't even see it.


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## gman (Jul 28, 2014)

CommanderXL said:


> This is all an illusion. Uber is just eBay for your car miles.
> 
> We are not producing anything and we are not really providing a service, so thinking of this as "pay," "earnings" or "wages" is all wrong. Just like thinking you're getting paid for your time when you sell an item on eBay.
> 
> ...


It's actually more like a reverse mortgage on your car.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

this analogy is deeply flawed because the government pays YOU for depreciation. If you can't turn a profit on $0.57/mile PLUS what Uber pays you, you need a new accountant.


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## CommanderXL (Jun 17, 2015)

Robertk said:


> this analogy is deeply flawed because the government pays YOU for depreciation. If you can't turn a profit on $0.57/mile PLUS what Uber pays you, you need a new accountant.


The government pays you for depreciation? How come I never got a check?!


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## CommanderXL (Jun 17, 2015)

Robertk said:


> this analogy is deeply flawed because the government pays YOU for depreciation. If you can't turn a profit on $0.57/mile PLUS what Uber pays you, you need a new accountant.


You've completely missed the point, which is that whatever money you might make is derived from the value of something you already paid for and own (and if your lucky profit on top of that.) Not from your labor. It's not pay. It's not earnings. And Uber, like eBay, doesn't pay you anything.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

CommanderXL said:


> The government pays you for depreciation? How come I never got a check?!


perhaps you need a better accountant

https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/2722277-what-can-an-uber-driver-deduct



CommanderXL said:


> You've completely missed the point, which is that whatever money you might make is derived from the value of something you already paid for and own (and if your lucky profit on top of that.) Not from your labor. It's not pay. It's not earnings. And Uber, like eBay, doesn't pay you anything.


Oh, I got the point alright. It's a dumb argument easily disproven. Your logical fallacy (shared by many on this board) is that depreciation can be 'saved' by not driving the car. Ridiculous! If you bought a new car and put it in your garage with bubble wrap around it do you actually believe that you can sell it for the same amount in ten years?

The car is a tool, like a hammer or a computer or a construction crane. The tool is worthless by itself. Workmen (otherwise known as 'labor') use that tool (sometimes referred to as 'capital') to create value that would otherwise not exist. This system is sometimes called capitalism, perhaps you have heard of it?


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## CommanderXL (Jun 17, 2015)

Robertk said:


> perhaps you need a better accountant
> 
> https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/2722277-what-can-an-uber-driver-deduct
> 
> ...


If you bought a car for $10,000, drive it 1 mile home, then wrapped it in bubble wrap, as you said, and sold it ten years later for $5,000, guess what? It cost you $5,000/mile. But you were lucky, the government sent you a check for 57.5¢ so it only cost you $4,999.425! Was there profit on your capital investment?


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

CommanderXL said:


> If you bought a car for $10,000, drive it 1 mile home, then wrapped it in bubble wrap, as you said, and sold it ten years later for $5,000, guess what? It cost you $5,000/mile. But you were lucky, the government sent you a check for 57.5¢ so it only cost you $4,999.425! Was there profit on your capital investment?


this is why your business is failing, you are unwilling to add any labor to the capital you have invested.

capital PLUS labor = profit


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## CommanderXL (Jun 17, 2015)

Robertk said:


> this is why your business is failing, you are unwilling to add any labor to the capital you have invested.
> 
> capital PLUS labor = profit


Nope. Doesn't have anything to do with anyone failing. Your arguments are misplaced and don't make any sense in this context because you're missing the point. Don't worry, a lot of people will miss it, too. That's what Uber is counting on.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Robertk said:


> this is why your business is failing, you are unwilling to add any labor to the capital you have invested.
> 
> capital PLUS labor = profit


LMAO!!!!

This guy speaks like an expert , but drives for Profit in penny's

The odds are so stacked ... The carpet will be pulled again & again

Bussiness 101 , start by owning the bussiness 
Set your rates , make your own rules ( with in regulation )
"you are your own boss " bull is nothing but placebo.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Let me spin this 
Carton of cigarettes 60.00 = .15 per cigarret 
Single pack 7.00 = .35 per cigarret 
Single cigarret .50 = uberX rate plan


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## Old Rocker (Aug 20, 2015)

Robertk said:


> perhaps you need a better accountant
> 
> https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/2722277-what-can-an-uber-driver-deduct
> 
> ...


Many people, without real world experience in accounting or finance, are used to calculating personal finances using the cash method and don't understand how the principles of depreciation relate to actual costs. You'll see a lot of people here writing about 'depreciation expenses,' when their only experience with depreciation is what a car salesperson tells them.

I've been in quite a few arguments here on the subject. I'll probably be in more arguments in the future.

I reflect back on my first experience in college on how seemingly counter-intuitive finances and economics can be. It goes something like this...

If you order a steak dinner for $20 and you only eat half the steak, how much money did you waste? The correct answer is, of course, $0.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

CommanderXL said:


> If you bought a car for $10,000, drive it 1 mile home, then wrapped it in bubble wrap, as you said, and sold it ten years later for $5,000, guess what? It cost you $5,000/mile. But you were lucky, the government sent you a check for 57.5¢ so it only cost you $4,999.425! Was there profit on your capital investment?


You wont get a check for that much. It's a deduction, not a credit.


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## CommanderXL (Jun 17, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You wont get a check for that much. It's a deduction, not a credit.


Yeah, I fully understand its a deduction and that the government doesn't pay you or send you a check. I just didn't feel like trying to explain it to the guy. I learned awhile ago that you can't argue with stupid!


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

CommanderXL said:


> This is all an illusion. Uber is just eBay for your car miles.
> 
> We are not producing anything and we are not really providing a service, so thinking of this as "pay," "earnings" or "wages" is all wrong. Just like thinking you're getting paid for your time when you sell an item on eBay.
> 
> ...


I love this post. Not like, love.
The detractors here are just nitpicking, I think.

The central point is a good one. Namely, Uber should not price the service. That's the business of the driver. Uber should function exactly like eBay.

Uber is communication/payment service (which also sometimes sells insurance because they use uninsured service providers.) For these, they take a commission. Fine.

What's not fine is Uber creating rules (acceptance rate, cancellation rate, discouraging tips, time-outs, obfuscation of trip details like customer destination, preventing customers from choosing their driver, preventing customers from making reservations, etc, etc, etc.) The flaws in their model are many, if you look at it from the driver's point view. It all skews towards passenger's wants and needs (and Uber's, of course)

But maybe the most important control Uber places on their independent contractors is PRICE. And frankly, this control is not always beneficial to customers either. SURGE, for instance.

There's plenty a situations where a driver, sitting in a SURGE area, would happily negotiate a lower price. But only if that driver knew complete trip information beforehand. Maybe the driver is about to go home, for instance, and would take lower price to get a fare going that way.

The Uber using an EBay model would be far superior. Fairer, safer, more flexible, greater choice. But there's not much hope for that springing anytime soon, because Uber has built their non-transparent, customer skewed goliath that the effing customers absolutely love. Of course the love it, it's ridiculously cheap! Uber invented a system that works great, but is also completely unworkable. It's amazing really.


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