# CA drivers: A brief tour of what has happened to driver pay since Prop 22



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Many California drivers may have already digested this, but having driven only in a spotty fashion since prop 22 passed I was shocked... shocked (in a Casa Blanca kind of way) to learn what Uber has done to driver pay since Prop 22. At least in my locale.

Take a look at this fare from DEC 2020. This is after all the changes Uber made to make its drivers look like independent contractors, but just as prop 22 cut in:










A 20% take! On a fare of $11.26 the driver netted $9.01. Pretty sweet. That kind of take is indicative of what a truly fare split should look like. For most drivers that would have been a 25% take since most don't drive electric. Still, what's not to love?

Note that although what the rider actually paid and the Marketplace Fee is not exposed, whenever I spot checked by asking the rider what they paid the take always came out to about 2 percentage points higher than what Uber claimed. So a 25% take would in actuality be around 28% based upon what the rider paid.

Now look at a typical ride four months later, in April. Uber now exposes what the rider paid, and also exposes what is now the ALL IMPORTANT Marketplace Fee.





























*Leaving out the tip, Uber took 51% of the fare. *

Also, the ALL IMPORTANT Marketplace Fee is now based upon trip mileage (and other factors), and can be as high as $10. So on longer trips Uber not only takes more of the fare, but an increasing portion of the fare! I found out this weekend how damaging that can be. As most of us know, long trips can have *long return legs*, making some long trips untenable. Now it's even harder to turn a decent profit on what could be very profitable trips if only Uber would add a surcharge for such trips (just as it should add a surcharge for long pickups), as well as knocking it off with this covert Marketplace Fee BS.

Here is my long trip from this weekend. Because of the progressive Marketplace Fee, the Uber take is 34%, instead of what would have been 23% sans the Marketplace Fee (exclusive of tip).











So as I finally get around to taking measure of the prop 22 fallout I see not only a take that may be exceeding even Lyft's theft of the fare, but a wildly varying overall take percentage of the fare, ranging from 31% to 51% on a small sample I crunched in a spreadsheet. It appears there may not be a reliable method of determining each ride's profitability before accepting the request. This is some Charles Manson, Helter Skelter kind of uncertainty at play here.

Still, this does not mean I think that I think prop 22 should have been defeated. If it had I strongly suspect the system would be even worse than it has devolved to under 22.


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## 122819 (Sep 11, 2017)

Wow no response to this post? What has changed since? I wanna drive Uber and Lyft in San Diego area.


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## Fischer Fan (Oct 19, 2020)

I think that drivers have now accepted their fate. They know that they are getting cheated. They know that they have no recourse, other than to quit. They are a defeated people.


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## 122819 (Sep 11, 2017)

Fischer Fan said:


> I think that drivers have now accepted their fate. They know that they are getting cheated. They know that they have no recourse, other than to quit. They are a defeated people.


Wow


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

_Tron_ said:


> Many California drivers may have already digested this, but having driven only in a spotty fashion since prop 22 passed I was shocked... shocked (in a Casa Blanca kind of way) to learn what Uber has done to driver pay since Prop 22. At least in my locale.
> 
> Take a look at this fare from DEC 2020. This is after all the changes Uber made to make its drivers look like independent contractors, but just as prop 22 cut in:
> 
> ...


I hate to say I told you so but I told you so.


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Fischer Fan said:


> I think that drivers have now accepted their fate. They know that they are getting cheated. They know that they have no recourse, other than to quit. They are a defeated people.


Who cares, we are talking about driving for min wage or less, every person who can drive for Uber able to find min wage job, but yes screw these assholes.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Fischer Fan said:


> I think that drivers have now accepted their fate. They know that they are getting cheated. They know that they have no recourse, other than to quit. They are a defeated people.


Speaking of quitting, it seems many have in my locale. I mean like a lot. My third weekend in post-pua and their is still a radical shortage of drivers. Wait times are long and I am getting noticeably more requests than before the pandemic.

It's a bit surprising (or maybe it shouldn't be) even for Uber to play it this way, using temporary incentives instead of raising pay, to lure drivers back. Even Uber must see that zero income due to the passenger not getting a ride is not the preferable route here.

BTW, for completeness I should add that Uber paid a $1 quest fee for every ride. Of course such income can only be considered temporary.

Ha ha. I just checked on a "Green" fare I had yesterday. It's a $1 premium paid by the pax to get a ride in an EV. Uber is even raiding that. They are only passing on .50 for such rides. So much for incentivizing drives to buy an electric car.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

I asked Uber to refund the $10 Marketplace Fee on the long ride example in the OP. They of course denied the claim. So as of now I am choosing to no longer do long rides. They were already a nuisance. 

I neglected to include the Paid To Uber screenshot for that ride in the post:











Here is the boilerplate drivel I received back:


​
​

NO RESPONSE NEEDED
Request a fare reviewThursday, September 16, 2021 at 6:21:12 PM · UberXHi Tron,

I understand your concern is regarding marketplace fee of $10 which is very high for you and you would like to refund that to you and you are also concerned about the long trip. I know how important it is for you. Let's look into this.

I would like to inform you that we always aim to connect you to riders as close to you as possible, we understand that this pick-up location was further than expected and caused an inconvenience.

We regret to inform you that we're unable to refund the marketplace fee for this trip.

*Your feedback is important. We've noted your feedback and provided it to the appropriate team. They'll review at your request. *

We know many of our drivers are excited about this new feature, and we hope to make it available to you as quickly as possible. Long Pickup Fees are not currently available in California. We hope to bring this feature to this city as soon as possible.

We appreciate your patience. You can always get in touch with the help section in your app.
*Sent by Maya on Monday, September 20, 2021 at 7:11:30 AM*
​
*Continue this conversation by replying to this email or going to help in your Uber app.*


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## Lord Summerisle (Aug 15, 2015)

You can really see the screwing on the short rides. The marketplace fee by itself is more than the driver gets paid! Their whole take is 62% of the fare!


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Lord Summerisle said:


> View attachment 616446


ROFL 

No, no, no. Just no.


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## Driver_Down (Dec 11, 2018)

As a previous driver been, now long term employee who hasn't driven in U/L in over a year I'm curious to know what the average 12 hour day shift is bringing you? I'm curious to see if it's worth quitting and going back to complete flexibility.


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Driver_Down said:


> As a previous driver been, now long term employee who hasn't driven in U/L in over a year I'm curious to know what the average 12 hour day shift is bringing you? I'm curious to see if it's worth quitting and going back to complete flexibility.


Not now, maybe in 2022-2023.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Here is another look at pay, post prop 22. I did not account for the $1 quest paid for each ride above, because it can't be counted on in the future. However even accounting for the quest, Uber took as much as 61% of the fare. Average take from my rides yesterday was 40%.

It seems that very short rides, that involve a "minimum fare supplement", and longer rides, that include an ever larger % "Marketplace fee", are the worst paying rides.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Driver_Down said:


> As a previous driver been, now long term employee who hasn't driven in U/L in over a year I'm curious to know what the average 12 hour day shift is bringing you? I'm curious to see if it's worth quitting and going back to complete flexibility.


[EDITED]
I can only say for my market. I don't work 12 hour shifts, but for what's its worth I did a typical 8 hr shift yesterday, so you can extrapolate. Total pay was $282.17 between Uber and Lyft. It took 260 miles to earn that total. Costs per mile to run my EV are relatively low, you would have to plug in your own numbers.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Uber is cheap but not dumb !


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## Justice41ca (11 mo ago)

_Tron_ said:


> Speaking of quitting, it seems many have in my locale. I mean like a lot. My third weekend in post-pua and their is still a radical shortage of drivers. Wait times are long and I am getting noticeably more requests than before the pandemic.
> 
> It's a bit surprising (or maybe it shouldn't be) even for Uber to play it this way, using temporary incentives instead of raising pay, to lure drivers back. Even Uber must see that zero income due to the passenger not getting a ride is not the preferable route here.
> 
> ...


I wasn't even driving when Prop 22 came on the ballot. With all of you in mind I voted against it. I knew this was going to happen. Just like I told those yelling for $15 min wage. Now they are crying they need $20 min wage because the price of everything is up.... Where did they think, the money was going to come from? They didn't think they just wanted. 
NOTHING is free it always cost. 
Now Uber is charging the driver benefit fee which is another way to pay for the Prop 22. 
I wanted a little freedom and I wanted away from the same old same old. Boy did I pick a bad time. 
Nothing is going to change unless we make it. 
I am not picking up the $5 fare that I have to drive 15 miles to get to. Stats or no Stats.
Uber needs to realize that it isn't quantity that will make us succeed it is quality that the market we should be focusing on wants. I am sorry but let the people that want to pay a few bucks go back to taking the bus. I want the people on their way to work or something that want a ride and willing to pay a fair price. Why are we focusing on the group that wants to ride for almost free and never tips or thanks the driver?
People are quitting here also. Uber isn't going to have drivers for the rides. They will run out of new people soon.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

watch the showtime tv series uber Pumped..your new here nothing will ever get better..$10 fee's haahahahaahha


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