# Surge Manipulation email



## uberyft

Hi there, you guys also got this email from Uber? HAHAHAHA. I have not been driving for almost a month, returned the phone and my account is still active.
--
Hi XXXXXX,

At Uber, we’re committed to supporting our partners by providing them the feedback needed to improve their star ratings. In recent driver surveys, rider feedback was the #1 item drivers requested from us, and we listened! In the past week, we received the below feedback from your riders.

—— Surge Manipulation ——

What does Surge Manipulation mean? A passenger let us know that they felt you unfairly canceled their trip to wait for surge to kick in, or that you otherwise unfairly gave preference to surge trips instead of their request.

How can I improve? Please accept every request that Uber sends your way, and do not cancel trips in the hope that your next dispatch will be a surge trip.

If we continue to receive negative feedback from riders that impacts your rating, your account will be reviewed and may be deactivated.

Note: we expect some negative feedback over time for all our partners as this is the nature of the business! If you believe you received this complaint unfairly, please don’t worry: as long as this doesn’t happen regularly, your account will not be affected. Again, the purpose of this message is to provide you constructive feedback to help you improve.

Hope this helps!

Uber Team
--

Should I email them saying something? Should I request another phone since they now know what peeps are doing? There might be chances of start making dough again while in surge.


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## chi1cabby

Wow! Just Wow!!

What a ducking bunch of UberHogwash!

*In recent driver surveys, rider feedback was the #1 itemdrivers requested fromus, and we listened! Inthepast week, we received the below feedback from your riders.

-- Surge Manipulation --*

And you haven't even driven for a month, don't even have the damn UberPhone anymore!

Yes please send em a nicely worded email on this! And if you don't mind can you please post pics of this email here so it can be disseminated on other driver FB pages.
Thanx @uberyft !


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## uberyft

Sure thing @chi1cabby attached is the file, let's spread the word.


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## LAuberX

I got the same form letter today with another complaint.

I responded and of course they can't say what trip, citing the "ratings" bullshit line.

we all need dash cams, one sided complaints going against you is not a partnership.


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## chi1cabby

Here's an Uber_CHI email on Deactivation for low Acceptance Rate


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## uberyft

Oh these guys are good doing marketing..


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## driveLA

Lol its funny that they are only providing feedback to give you shit complaints about something not even relating to an actual ride. 

What about some positive feedback you stupid leeches! 

How would a pax even be able to give feedback on a driver that didn't accept or give them a ride? Wtf? 

Uber you are scummmm.


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## puber

I got 2 of those uber complains today for other reasons. Damn,,,,,,,,,, I guess, I will have to improve.
On the second thought, 
I can just delete them


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## Moofish

driveLA said:


> Lol its funny that they are only providing feedback to give you shit complaints about something not even relating to an actual ride.
> 
> What about some positive feedback you stupid leeches!
> 
> How would a pax even be able to give feedback on a driver that didn't accept or give them a ride? Wtf?
> 
> Uber you are scummmm.


Got a positive feedback email today, they sent me a text with the same wording, no details, just told me I had some positive feedback 








This is the first time i've seen this, and of course I have no idea who it could be.

I've also had a request outside the surge area while I was in the middle of a surge, that's one of the few times that I have canceled, never got any emails about it.


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## puber

Moofish said:


> Got a positive feedback email today, they sent me a text with the same wording, no details, just told me I had some positive feedback
> View attachment 1316
> 
> This is the first time i've seen this, and of course I have no idea who it could be.


It's pathetic, but congrats!


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## chi1cabby

chi1cabby said:


> Here's an Uber_CHI email on Deactivation for low Acceptance Rate
> 
> View attachment 1313


This is the drivers reply to the deactivation email:

I just received the below quoted email from Uber and my account has been deactivated. I believe this is in error as the reason for deactivation cited is explicitly against the agreement I have with Uber. I request that my account be reactivated immediately.

Per the latest agreement posted on the Uber partner portal, dated June 21 2014, I am specifically entitled to reject any requests I am provided but must fulfill requests that I accept unless that request is either unsafe or cancelled in mutual agreement with the requestor. I have fulfilled this obligation per my contract. Further, unless for reason specifically stated as breach - which acceptance rate is not - my contract cannot be deactivated without at least 30 days notice per contract.

I understand and appreciate that Uber is trying to shore up its quality of service by requesting drivers to raise their acceptance rates. However, there are very good reasons to not accept many requests:
- ETA for pickup is over 10 minutes away
- pickup location is in opposite direction of travel and it is inconvenient, difficult, or otherwise impossible to pickup in a reasonable amount of time
- I am in or close to a surge pricing zone where requests will pay 1.25x-4.5x what the incoming request will pay
- I am checking the app to view the surge map and a request comes in when I am not fully prepared to drive

If Uber wants to raise my acceptance rate, my suggestions include:
- adding a monitor mode to the app to allow viewing the surge map without being online
- raise the 1x base rates to at least pre-Aug 15 levels
- Allow me to opt out, on temporary and/or permanent basis, from receiving requests outside of a certain ETA or surge pricing range, especially during active surges

I really love Uber and want Uber to be successful. However, I do hope Uber will honor its agreements and will find ways to increase acceptance rates through positive incentives rather than threats of deactivation and account standing.

Thank you.

--- begin quote ---

Your account has been wait-listed due to acceptance rate issues. You have been identified as having a trip acceptance rate far below your peers.

We ask that you come to an office hours session to discuss this discrepancy with a representative.After you have talked to someone at office hours your account will be reactivated but will be monitored for acceptance rate issues in the future.

Office hours take place at 300 N. Elizabeth from 10:00 AM - 6:00 PM Monday through Friday.

--- end quote ---


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## chi1cabby

chi1cabby said:


> This is the drivers reply to the deactivation email:
> 
> I just received the below quoted email from Uber and my account has been deactivated. I believe this is in error as the reason for deactivation cited is explicitly against the agreement I have with Uber. I request that my account be reactivated immediately.
> 
> Per the latest agreement posted on the Uber partner portal, dated June 21 2014, I am specifically entitled to reject any requests I am provided but must fulfill requests that I accept unless that request is either unsafe or cancelled in mutual agreement with the requestor. I have fulfilled this obligation per my contract. Further, unless for reason specifically stated as breach - which acceptance rate is not - my contract cannot be deactivated without at least 30 days notice per contract.
> 
> I understand and appreciate that Uber is trying to shore up its quality of service by requesting drivers to raise their acceptance rates. However, there are very good reasons to not accept many requests:
> - ETA for pickup is over 10 minutes away
> - pickup location is in opposite direction of travel and it is inconvenient, difficult, or otherwise impossible to pickup in a reasonable amount of time
> - I am in or close to a surge pricing zone where requests will pay 1.25x-4.5x what the incoming request will pay
> - I am checking the app to view the surge map and a request comes in when I am not fully prepared to drive
> 
> If Uber wants to raise my acceptance rate, my suggestions include:
> - adding a monitor mode to the app to allow viewing the surge map without being online
> - raise the 1x base rates to at least pre-Aug 15 levels
> - Allow me to opt out, on temporary and/or permanent basis, from receiving requests outside of a certain ETA or surge pricing range, especially during active surges
> 
> I really love Uber and want Uber to be successful. However, I do hope Uber will honor its agreements and will find ways to increase acceptance rates through positive incentives rather than threats of deactivation and account standing.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> --- begin quote ---
> 
> Your account has been wait-listed due to acceptance rate issues. You have been identified as having a trip acceptance rate far below your peers.
> 
> We ask that you come to an office hours session to discuss this discrepancy with a representative.After you have talked to someone at office hours your account will be reactivated but will be monitored for acceptance rate issues in the future.
> 
> Office hours take place at 300 N. Elizabeth from 10:00 AM - 6:00 PM Monday through Friday.
> 
> --- end quote ---


(This driver had the foresight to opt-out of the binding arbitration in the 1 month window allowed after signing the agreement. *I think anytime Uber makes the drivers sign an updated agreement, it gives the drivers a New one month window to opt-out*!)

This is Uber_CHI's reply:

David --

Thank you for your email. At this time your account has been reactivated.

Regards.

Brian | Uber Chicago


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## Chicago-uber

Sweet. I will copy that drivers email to uber next time uber tries to deactivate me... Ignored maybe 50% of requests this week based on exact reasons stated in that email.


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## Bully

chi1cabby said:


> (This driver had the foresight to opt-out of the binding arbitration in the 1 month window allowed after signing the agreement. *I think anytime Uber makes the drivers sign an updated agreement, it gives the drivers a New one month window to opt-out*!)
> 
> This is Uber_CHI's reply:
> 
> David --
> 
> Thank you for your email. At this time your account has been reactivated.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Brian | Uber Chicago


Yes I confirm, that's how I opted-out.


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## uberCHICAGO

chi1cabby said:


> Wow! Just Wow!!
> 
> What a ducking bunch of UberHogwash!
> 
> *In recent driver surveys, rider feedback was the #1 itemdrivers requested fromus, and we listened! Inthepast week, we received the below feedback from your riders.
> 
> -- Surge Manipulation --*
> 
> And you haven't even driven for a month, don't even have the damn UberPhone anymore!
> 
> Yes please send em a nicely worded email on this! And if you don't mind can you please post pics of this email here so it can be disseminated on other driver FB pages.
> Thanx @uberyft !


There was no actual complaint toward the driver.
How would the rider know what intent the driver had if the trip was canceled?
Uber know the strategies drivers are coming up with and trying to head them off. All the while will say "the customer complained". When truly the rider complained about ubers surge charge and there goes uber passing the bs to the driver.
More and more those threatening email look and sounds so much like employer/employee type of communications. Not partner like


----------



## NightRider

uberyft said:


> A passenger let us know that they felt you unfairly canceled their trip to wait for surge to kick in,* or* that you otherwise unfairly gave preference to surge trips instead of their request.


Funny that they start out by saying it's advice on how "to improve their star ratings". Then, none of the scenarios that I can think of based on what the supposed rider feedback was should have anything to do with star rating. Acceptance rate and cancellation rate are both separate metrics. Following their advice would have no direct impact on your star rating.

It looks more like they have started running analysis programs on our driver activity history, and set up automatic mailers to fire off these "feedback" messages based on what they are determining to be bad behaviors.

Obviously, the lower fares have caused a change in the way drivers approach the job. This is good news.

I opened the rider app a few hours ago. It was 2:00am on wednesday night/thursday morning. Downtown DC was at 1.25x surge. A minute later, surge went up to 2.5x. Suprising for a Wednesday night. The surge lasted about 10 minutes at 2.5x.

Around 4am I opened the rider app again just to see what was going on. There were 4 cars on the map total, 3 in DC and one in Arlington. I don't think I've ever seen that few cars at any hour.


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## NightRider

Just to add on to my last comment... It's now 4:30am in downtown DC. I opened the rider app. "NO uberX AVAILABLE" Hmm..

EDIT: 1 minute later, ONE car is on the map for the entire DC area. Yikes.


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## Just Some Guy

My latest Uber feedback email says that my acceptance rate was below 50%, and the "Top Drivers" were at 92%. My number of trips was half of what the "Top Drivers" completed. The average hourly income of the "Top Drivers" was $31... mine was $46.
So I did half the work (and theoretically incurred half the expenses) of the "Top Drivers", yet made more per hour (with a much higher profit margin I bet). But Uber thinks this is bad because I only accepted rides with 2x or higher surge.


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## NightRider

Just Some Guy said:


> My latest Uber feedback email says that my acceptance rate was below 50%, and the "Top Drivers" were at 92%. My number of trips was half of what the "Top Drivers" completed. The average hourly income of the "Top Drivers" was $31... mine was $46.
> So I did half the work (and theoretically incurred half the expenses) of the "Top Drivers", yet made more per hour (with a much higher profit margin I bet). But Uber thinks this is bad because I only accepted rides with 2x or higher surge.


Having such a low acceptance rate is probably going to get you deactivated. Better to go offline if you're not going to be accepting ride requests.


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## Just Some Guy

NightRider said:


> Having such a low acceptance rate is probably going to get you deactivated. Better to go offline if you're not going to be accepting ride requests.


If I go offline, then I can't make money... 
That's what happens when you're in a 4x surge area, and have to ignore 6 non-surge requests 15 to 20 minutes away in under 2 minutes so you can get the 4x surge ride. That happened multiple times last week. What sane driver is going to accept a non-surge ping 15 to 20 minutes away when you're sitting in a 4x surge area?


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## NightRider

Just Some Guy said:


> If I go offline, then I can't make money...
> That's what happens when you're in a 4x surge area, and have to ignore 6 non-surge requests 15 to 20 minutes away in under 2 minutes so you can get the 4x surge ride. That happened multiple times last week. What sane driver is going to accept a non-surge ping 15 to 20 minutes away when you're sitting in a 4x surge area?


I see what you're saying. It surprises me that you get calls that are 15 to 20 minutes away. Are there no drivers closer to those pax? Is it normal to have to travel so far to a pickup in your market?


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## LAuberX

NightRider said:


> I see what you're saying. It surprises me that you get calls that are 15 to 20 minutes away. Are there no drivers closer to those pax? Is it normal to have to travel so far to a pickup in your market?


I get the same thing when I am in the middle of Santa Monica during a 3-4X surge, I get pings 20 minutes away outside the area, lots of cars between me and the ping.

I do not take pings over 10 minutes away, and even that is too generous.

bad technology, or does each of the other cars ignore the ping? Uber will never tell us that!


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## NightRider

LAuberX said:


> I get the same thing when I am in the middle of Santa Monica during a 3-4X surge, I get pings 20 minutes away outside the area, lots of cars between me and the ping.
> 
> I do not take pings over 10 minutes away, and even that is too generous.
> 
> bad technology, or does each of the other cars ignore the ping? Uber will never tell us that!


Honestly, I understand why they want acceptance rates to be high. However, if there are closer drivers that don't accept the ping, they should get penalized more than subsequent drivers who also pass on that ride. The fact that the fifth driver to pass on a ride is penalized as much as the first sucks because the further away you are from a pickup, the less money you make and even run the risk of operating at a loss at the current rates.


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## Sydney Uber

chi1cabby said:


> (This driver had the foresight to opt-out of the binding arbitration in the 1 month window allowed after signing the agreement. *I think anytime Uber makes the drivers sign an updated agreement, it gives the drivers a New one month window to opt-out*!)
> 
> This is Uber_CHI's reply:
> 
> David --
> 
> Thank you for your email. At this time your account has been reactivated.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Brian | Uber Chicago


Man! dont they go to water easily! Well done to that driver!


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## duggles

Same in Denver. When there are surges, you get a ton of requests far outside the surge area. 10-20 minute ETAs. And it's because you're not the first driver to pass up non-surge pricing. 

They need to expand surge areas, or raise areas outside the surge to a surge rate in between the hot zone/downtown area and normal rates.


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## mp775

I think some riders also deliberately misplace their pin outside the surge zone, then call to "apologize" and give the driver the correct location.


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## Just Some Guy

duggles said:


> Same in Denver. When there are surges, you get a ton of requests far outside the surge area. 10-20 minute ETAs. And it's because you're not the first driver to pass up non-surge pricing.
> 
> They need to expand surge areas, or raise areas outside the surge to a surge rate in between the hot zone/downtown area and normal rates.


Last year, the whole city used to surge at once, then they broke it up into zones. Presumably this was done because riders were complaining that those in slow areas were being "penalized" as much as those in busy areas. Ironically (though logically) now those same riders are far less likely to even get a ride at all. Considering everywhere I go in Boston, there are no less than 6 other drivers around me (and often more), I'm sure a lot of others ignored those pings as well.


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## Just Some Guy

mp775 said:


> I think some riders also deliberately misplace their pin outside the surge zone, then call to "apologize" and give the driver the correct location.


I see this a lot in Kenmore Square when there's a game. Putting the edge of a surge zone so close to such a busy area was a big mistake on Uber's part.


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## chi1cabby

This is a followup of my deactivation post.
___________________________________

David Schwartzstein 4:35pm Oct 8
Bad news, everyone...
A few weeks ago, some of you may remember my "heroic story" of how I challenged a deactivation Uber imposed on me for a low acceptance rate, using language in their partner agreement relating to my right to refuse requests as a wedge to get them to reactivate me.
Fast forward to today... at least a few drivers I know received "temporary deactivations" from today at around noon to run through Friday at around noon as punishment for low acceptance rate, and threatens subsequent permanent deactivation if I don't raise my acceptance rate after reinstatement. I attempted the same email to Uber pointing out that I had the right to refuse, and Uber challenged me back, saying that there's a clause in Uber's agreement giving them complete unreviewable rights to revoke or suspend our access to the application.
I didn't remember reading this in the agreement, so I went back and checked - the language is in fact there, buried on page 8 in the section titled "Company Equipment/Driver ID" (I'll quote it shortly).
The long and short: Uber has 100% discretion to deactivate drivers at will without notice. The 30 day notice we thought was required previously does not appear to be required. It's unfortunate they buried this language in paragraphs that have to do with things that are completely irrelevant to acceptance rate, and that despite them granting the right to refuse requests earlier in the agreement they choose to invoke this catchall as a way of forcing us to accept requests anyway.
Here is the quoted section of the agreement from Page 8... any of you surge chasers that are ignoring 1x requests, be warned that you may be soon facing temporary and subsequent permanent deactivation.
BEGIN QUOTE
Company will also issue identification and password keys (each, a “Driver ID”) to the Transportation Provider to enable you to access the Service. You will ensure the security and confidentiality of each Driver ID. ONLY YOU may use the Driver ID. Sharing your Driver ID with someone else constitutes a material breach of this Agreement. ONLY YOU may use the Device to accept requests for transportation services. Allowing someone else to use the Device to accept requests for transportation services constitutes a material breach of this Agreement. The Company will have the right, at all times and in the Company’s sole discretion, to prohibit or otherwise restrict you or anyone else from accessing the Service for any reason.
The Company's approval and authorization of a Driver may be conditioned upon terms and conditions including, without limitation, a requirement that such Driver, at his own cost and expense, undergo the Company's screening process and attend the Company's informational session regarding the use of Uber's mobile application. The Company reserves the right to withhold or revoke its approval and authorization of any Driver at any time, in its sole and unreviewable discretion. Upon termination of this Agreement, whether by default or otherwise, the Device, which you acknowledge is and at all times will remain the property of the Company, must be returned to the Company.


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## Optimus Uber

uberyft said:


> Hi there, you guys also got this email from Uber? HAHAHAHA. I have not been driving for almost a month, returned the phone and my account is still active.
> --
> Hi XXXXXX,
> 
> At Uber, we're committed to supporting our partners by providing them the feedback needed to improve their star ratings. In recent driver surveys, rider feedback was the #1 item drivers requested from us, and we listened! In the past week, we received the below feedback from your riders.
> 
> -- Surge Manipulation --
> 
> What does Surge Manipulation mean? A passenger let us know that they felt you unfairly canceled their trip to wait for surge to kick in, or that you otherwise unfairly gave preference to surge trips instead of their request.
> 
> How can I improve? Please accept every request that Uber sends your way, and do not cancel trips in the hope that your next dispatch will be a surge trip.
> 
> If we continue to receive negative feedback from riders that impacts your rating, your account will be reviewed and may be deactivated.
> 
> Note: we expect some negative feedback over time for all our partners as this is the nature of the business! If you believe you received this complaint unfairly, please don't worry: as long as this doesn't happen regularly, your account will not be affected. Again, the purpose of this message is to provide you constructive feedback to help you improve.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Uber Team
> --
> 
> Should I email them saying something? Should I request another phone since they now know what peeps are doing? There might be chances of start making dough again while in surge.


maybe they are behind a couple of months sending out the emails.

I wouldn't pick up the same customer that I cancelled. Its probably someone else that did it and you picked up the remnants.


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## chi1cabby

So there is the confirmation of what I've always maintained that Uber can and will Deactivate any driver for any or no reason whatsoever. There is no prior notice of deactivation, no review or appeal process, and no legal recourse that an individual driver has.

What it all boils down to is that Uber holds all the cards. But an individual driver does hold the card of opting out of Binding Arbitration Clause within the first Month of signing up. And all existing drivers hold the card of Opting Out every time Uber updates the Partnership Agreement, and asks for the Drivers Consent by clicking "*Yes, I Agree*" on the Driver App.
The Drivers can print the Opt-out form at www.UberLawSuit.com and fax it to Uber General Counsel.

@uberpeople.net can the forum please provide the Opt-out form in the Resources Section?
Thank you!


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## grams777

You could also complain (or indicate to Uber your intent to complain) to your local state department of revenue / employment that you are misclassiffied as an independent contractor. Many states are pretty aggressive and even have task forces with complaint lines to receive calls. When Uber starts dictating that you must accept nearly all 'leads' that they generate to you, the scales tip a bit farther that drivers are employees.

For example:
http://www.tn.gov/labor-wfd/EMEEF/


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## mattvuberx

https://uber-regulatory-documents.s...oftware Sublicense Agreement June 21 2014.pdf

Uber cannot control your decision to accept or not accept requests. They can take action if you fail to complete accepted requests, but they generally don't. Acting on "low acceptance rates" violates the Rasier Software Sublicense & Online Services Agreement.


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## mattvuberx

"*You shall be entitled to accept, reject, and select among the Requests received via the Service. You shall 
have no obligation to the Company to accept any Request. * Following acceptance of a Request, however, 
you must perform the Request in accordance with the User's specifications. Failure to provide promised 
services on an accepted Request shall constitute a material breach of this Agreement, and may subject 
you to damages."


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## chi1cabby

mattvuberx said:


> Acting on "low acceptance rates" violates the Rasier Software Sublicense & Online Services Agreement.


You didn't fully read my post.



chi1cabby said:


> Company reserves the right to withhold or revoke its approval and authorization of any Driver at any time, in its sole and unreviewable discretion.


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## Former Yellow Driver

Uber can cut you off from the system for any/no reason. I doubt they even have to give you a reason or notice. Sure we are "entitled" to accept, reject, and select Requests. Doesn't mean that Uber MUST continue to give us access to their software app.


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## billybengal

uberyft said:


> Hi there, you guys also got this email from Uber? HAHAHAHA. I have not been driving for almost a month, returned the phone and my account is still active.
> --
> Hi XXXXXX,
> 
> At Uber, we're committed to supporting our partners by providing them the feedback needed to improve their star ratings. In recent driver surveys, rider feedback was the #1 item drivers requested from us, and we listened! In the past week, we received the below feedback from your riders.
> 
> -- Surge Manipulation --
> 
> What does Surge Manipulation mean? A passenger let us know that they felt you unfairly canceled their trip to wait for surge to kick in, or that you otherwise unfairly gave preference to surge trips instead of their request.
> 
> How can I improve? Please accept every request that Uber sends your way, and do not cancel trips in the hope that your next dispatch will be a surge trip.
> 
> If we continue to receive negative feedback from riders that impacts your rating, your account will be reviewed and may be deactivated.
> 
> Note: we expect some negative feedback over time for all our partners as this is the nature of the business! If you believe you received this complaint unfairly, please don't worry: as long as this doesn't happen regularly, your account will not be affected. Again, the purpose of this message is to provide you constructive feedback to help you improve.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Uber Team
> --
> 
> Should I email them saying something? Should I request another phone since they now know what peeps are doing? There might be chances of start making dough again while in surge.


Not driving for a month and got feedback that you manipulated a surge? I would email them damn straight that they are a bunch of liers making stuff up just to have something in case they decide to fire you. Proof? You didn't drive so how could you get feedback.

I had same bullshit with my previous employer: "You asked we listend". Yeah, not to benefit employees but for your own reasons. ****ing bullshit man.
I was really excited about starting with Uber but now I think I'll just look for a real job. **** them!


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## chi1cabby

billybengal said:


> I think I'll just look for a real job. **** them!


Just use Uber/Lyft for additional income by working the busier, more lucrative hours. Don't rely on it as your primary income source. It's much better that way.


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## uberyft

billybengal said:


> Not driving for a month and got feedback that you manipulated a surge? I would email them damn straight that they are a bunch of liers making stuff up just to have something in case they decide to fire you.


I did reach out to them asking an explination and got the usual copy-paste answer that anyone would get, only with a few different words changed.
--
Hi XXXXXXX,

Thanks for writing in! Happy to explain.

So, you asked why you just received a rider complaint, if you haven't taken a trip request since the price cut. Our system randomly delays how long we send these feedback emails to drivers. This is to protect the identity of riders. And, our system will do this to protect the identity of drivers when they send feedback.

Uber protects the privacy rights of both drivers and riders. So, when a driver sends feedback to a rider, we don't disclose which driver or trip caused the feedback. In the same way, Uber will not share which rider submits feedback. This protects both from retaliation. Thanks for understanding.

You can review our privacy policies here: https://www.uber.com/legal/usa/privacy

Here's why you receive these emails: One of your riders felt so strongly about this issue that they wanted Uber to let you know about it. Our driver side team has no idea which rider asked us to send this. Our rider side team sent us a note to send this to you. And, that was the purpose of the email your received from us about this.

However, we want to provide general feedback to let drivers know if one of their riders was so upset about an issue, that they thought their driver should be contacted about it. Depending on a drivers' current rating, a small issue like this could decrease their score below our standards.Your rating is 4.76 which is above our standard of 4.7-stars.

Uber does look into behaviors reported by multiple riders and major violations. However, no worries about Uber looking into this one. We don't investigate one off situations like this. We'll send the feedback the rider asked us to send you, but it's up to you to take heed or brush it off.

I hope that helps!

(Uber Rep Name Here)

Uber Support
--

I did told ALL of the riders that the only way I would continue to drive with Uber is only when it's surged, because it's the only way to make money, and all of the trips that I completed the last day were surged (I think it was like 8 or 9 total trips) and to all I told them the same thing, guess one did tell Uber about it, but it's fine, I really don't mind. Don't drive for them anymore, so why get all irritated over a small complaint, not worth my time, prefer to spend the time posting stuff here than thinking bout that...


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## billybengal

uberyft said:


> I did reach out to them asking an explination and got the usual copy-paste answer that anyone would get, only with a few different words changed.
> 
> Hi XXXXXXX,
> 
> Thanks for writing in! Happy to explain.
> 
> So, you asked why you just received a rider complaint, if you haven't taken a trip request since the price cut. Our system randomly delays how long we send these feedback emails to drivers. This is to protect the identity of riders. And, our system will do this to protect the identity of drivers when they send feedback.
> 
> Uber protects the privacy rights of both drivers and riders. So, when a driver sends feedback to a rider, we don't disclose which driver or trip caused the feedback. In the same way, Uber will not share which rider submits feedback. This protects both from retaliation. Thanks for understanding.
> 
> You can review our privacy policies here: https://www.uber.com/legal/usa/privacy
> 
> Here's why you receive these emails: One of your riders felt so strongly about this issue that they wanted Uber to let you know about it. Our driver side team has no idea which rider asked us to send this. Our rider side team sent us a note to send this to you. And, that was the purpose of the email your received from us about this.
> 
> However, we want to provide general feedback to let drivers know if one of their riders was so upset about an issue, that they thought their driver should be contacted about it. Depending on a drivers' current rating, a small issue like this could decrease their score below our standards.Your rating is 4.76 which is above our standard of 4.7-stars.
> 
> Uber does look into behaviors reported by multiple riders and major violations. However, no worries about Uber looking into this one. We don't investigate one off situations like this. We'll send the feedback the rider asked us to send you, but it's up to you to take heed or brush it off.
> 
> I hope that helps!
> 
> (Uber Rep Name Here)
> 
> Uber Support
> --
> 
> I did told ALL of the riders that the only way I would continue to drive with Uber is only when it's surged, because it's the only way to make money, and all of the trips that I completed the last day were surged (I think it was like 8 or 9 total trips) and to all I told them the same thing, guess one did tell Uber about it, but it's fine, I really don't mind. Don't drive for them anymore, so why get all irritated over a small complaint, not worth my time, prefer to spend the time posting stuff here than thinking bout that...


**** 'em!


----------



## uberCHICAGO

uberyft said:


> I did reach out to them asking an explination and got the usual copy-paste answer that anyone would get, only with a few different words changed.
> --
> 
> I did told ALL of the riders that the only way I would continue to drive with Uber is only when it's surged, because it's the only way to make money, and all of the trips that I completed the last day were surged (I think it was like 8 or 9 total trips) and to all I told them the same thing, guess one did tell Uber about it, but it's fine, I really don't mind. Don't drive for them anymore, so why get all irritated over a small complaint, not worth my time, prefer to spend the time posting stuff here than thinking bout that...


That would of been an nice tid bit to have added to the first post and let everyone know from the beginning 

BTW: Didn't you think that since they employ hundreds upon hundreds out of their main office and majority work remotely that eventually you were in line to get a Trojan(employee in disguise) dropped into your vehicle? Extract info from you and then drop you a line?

They can see strategy drivers are employing and looking for ways to either straighten them out or boot them out.


----------



## uberyft

@uberCHICAGO are you a Uber employee that logs in to zendesk remotely? You sound like one, no pun intended.


----------



## uberCHICAGO

uberyft said:


> @uberCHICAGO are you a Uber employee that logs in to zendesk remotely? You sound like one, no pun intended.


----------



## NightRider

uberyft said:


> I did told ALL of the riders that the only way I would continue to drive with Uber is only when it's surged, because it's the only way to make money, and all of the trips that I completed the last day were surged (I think it was like 8 or 9 total trips) and to all I told them the same thing, guess one did tell Uber about it, but it's fine, I really don't mind. Don't drive for them anymore, so why get all irritated over a small complaint, not worth my time, prefer to spend the time posting stuff here than thinking bout that...


Thanks for providing this additional detail.. it does provide the most likely explanation as to why you would get feedback from a rider that said anything along the lines of "surge manipulation". Prior to having that information, it didn't make much sense to me.

I think this should be a very good reminder to all of us that drive to be cautious about what you are saying when you start chatting it up with your passengers. It can be very easy to get comfortable when conversing while your attention is mainly focused on driving. Set some boundaries in your head as far as what things you will say and what things you won't say, at the beginning of each shift or each ride if necessary. I know I've caught myself mid conversation or even after a ride where I felt I might have allowed myself to get too comfortable.


----------



## Optimus Uber

uberyft said:


> I did reach out to them asking an explination and got the usual copy-paste answer that anyone would get, only with a few different words changed.
> --
> Hi XXXXXXX,
> 
> Thanks for writing in! Happy to explain.
> 
> So, you asked why you just received a rider complaint, if you haven't taken a trip request since the price cut. Our system randomly delays how long we send these feedback emails to drivers. This is to protect the identity of riders. And, our system will do this to protect the identity of drivers when they send feedback.
> 
> Uber protects the privacy rights of both drivers and riders. So, when a driver sends feedback to a rider, we don't disclose which driver or trip caused the feedback. In the same way, Uber will not share which rider submits feedback. This protects both from retaliation. Thanks for understanding.
> 
> You can review our privacy policies here: https://www.uber.com/legal/usa/privacy
> 
> Here's why you receive these emails: One of your riders felt so strongly about this issue that they wanted Uber to let you know about it. Our driver side team has no idea which rider asked us to send this. Our rider side team sent us a note to send this to you. And, that was the purpose of the email your received from us about this.
> 
> However, we want to provide general feedback to let drivers know if one of their riders was so upset about an issue, that they thought their driver should be contacted about it. Depending on a drivers' current rating, a small issue like this could decrease their score below our standards.Your rating is 4.76 which is above our standard of 4.7-stars.
> 
> Uber does look into behaviors reported by multiple riders and major violations. However, no worries about Uber looking into this one. We don't investigate one off situations like this. We'll send the feedback the rider asked us to send you, but it's up to you to take heed or brush it off.
> 
> I hope that helps!
> 
> (Uber Rep Name Here)
> 
> Uber Support
> --
> 
> I did told ALL of the riders that the only way I would continue to drive with Uber is only when it's surged, because it's the only way to make money, and all of the trips that I completed the last day were surged (I think it was like 8 or 9 total trips) and to all I told them the same thing, guess one did tell Uber about it, but it's fine, I really don't mind. Don't drive for them anymore, so why get all irritated over a small complaint, not worth my time, prefer to spend the time posting stuff here than thinking bout that...


I tell riders that all the time. That's the reason surge exists, to get cars on the road. It isn't manipulation, its the fact I can't make a descent wage at the current shit pay. If you need a ride in my beamer its going to cost you. You didn't manipulate the surge as uber has control over the surge. You just stated, you wont drive for anything less than a premium. You're not causing the surge nor do you have control over it. You're a contractor, you can work when you want to work. **** that customer, tell them they can ride the bus its cheaper. If they want the ride then take it, pay it and enjoy the ride. Too blame you for the higher cost is bs. Uber is more guilty of price manipulation than you are. They are the creators of it and they maintenance the system. For someone to say you have control over it is delusional. We can try to do things like stay off line, etc. But the impact is minimal on the surge. A 2.0x isn't because a handful of cars are offline, its because there is,allot of people looking for rides.

IMHO, that is an email uber should send to themselves.


----------



## mattvuberx

Deactivating you because you refuse to work except during surge is as effective at fixing the problem as putting out a fire with gasoline.


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## mattvuberx

1 less driver = 1 more car required from elsewhere to end the surge.


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## UberRey

There are no words...


----------



## NightRider

Optimus Uber said:


> That's the reason surge exists, to get cars on the road.


I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but, technically we are talking about a car that was already on the road and online.


----------



## NightRider

mattvuberx said:


> 1 less driver = 1 more car required from elsewhere to end the surge.


Or x more riders to give up and close the app to end the surge.


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## SgtMurphy

I can't believe that email...
I wish I could order another phone/account under a fake name so I could be bold with that one like @Just Some Guy and be a G. Accept surge sheeyat during peak times etc...
If they ever deactivate me I'm def gonna just try and sign up like a new driver using my current name. If that don't work I'll find a way.


----------



## Optimus Uber

NightRider said:


> I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but, technically we are talking about a car that was already on the road and online.


Going to play Angel's advocate here.

If you grab from the existing cars on the road then by pulling the cars from another area you will create a surge in another area. At least that is my understanding of it. By adding my car to the pool of cars during the surge, it actually relieves the surge sooner and gets the cheap skates in a car quicker. It is still my understanding the surge is in place to get drivers on the road. At least that's was always told to me. If this isn't the case then why send out text messages that it's so busy, get in your car and get out there. Aren't those text messages contradicting the fact that the surge is just for the people that are already online? I'm missing something, it's like Uber wants there cake and eat it too. Out of all the people that are servicing these clients, who is the 1 person that makes money on every surge customer? I know, I only get a piece of the one that is in my car, yet Uber is giving this guy crap and saying he is the one causing it. Sorry, doesn't wash. Uber makes 20% of every surge victim. Where does the true conflict of interest lie?

The guy receiving the email isn't the criminal. Ask your self the 5 why's, find the root cause, it starts with a gigantic U. I have been doing this for a few months, if they don't want my car on the rode then let me know. But you better have a better reason than accusing me of having access to change the Uber Software. Because as it stands at the moment, I don't have access to change the surge numbers in the Uber system. But Uber has given me the rights to pick up and drop off customers when ever I want. That's the part of Uber's selling point. Work when you want too. I choose to work during peak times, you know the times that Uber sends you in an email that states, you can make the most money by working these hours.

It's all good, you have your opinion, I have mine. My car rolls for no less than 1.75x.

And for those customers that complain about the surge price, this is what I tell them. You paid a premium for a car because there is a lack of supply and an increased demand. You are riding in a very nice vehicle and not a Prius because you paid a premium. It's not like you got stuck in a low end cramped car. You paid for luxury, you got luxury. This is always sure to get a 1*, so whenever I have to go into this speach for the cheap skates, they are an automatic 1*. And as they leave, I say one fo two things to them. Thank you, I'll keep the surge premium as my tip or My kids thank you for the extra funds so they can purchase text books in college.

Yes, I can be a real D-Bag especially when the customer wants to come of all self-rightoues. Not my issue, if they don't understand economics. I just wish Uber would let it be that anytime anyone gets rated 3 or lower, I never have to see them again. They could learn a thing or two about Lyft. I don't need to be driving riff raff around.

I have had a few people even say, they would never use UberPlus or ever pay a surge fee, they will just wait it out. I thought to myself, you're exactly the person I don't want in my car. Fine by me. You're happy with being cheap, then you get what you deserve. As people realize what UberX is paying, the cars are going to get older and in worse condition. Just the way it is. No one is going to go and get a new car for $1.10 a mile. I have already started hearing complaints how the cars that are showing up now are getting older and more run down. Seriously, what do you want for $1.10 a mile. Just saying, you get what you pay for. Then Uber has the nerve to send out an email to this guy about surge manipulation. Seriously, that's like telling everyone in the world that you can't control your own surge price and your great company that you have setup is so behind the times technically that any average driver on the street can manipulate the price that the customer pays. Sorry, but that email is hog wash. That email to me states, We are Uber, We blame everyone else and accept no responsibility. Still shaking my head in amazement how they can blame a driver for being able to set a higher price. Uber, it's your issue, not the drivers. Sorry, but any rating you receive for any driver that has the word surge in it, needs to be removed from that drivers feedback as it belongs rightfully to you.


----------



## Worcester Sauce

uberyft said:


> Hi there, you guys also got this email from Uber? HAHAHAHA. I have not been driving for almost a month, returned the phone and my account is still active.
> --
> Hi XXXXXX,
> 
> At Uber, we're committed to supporting our partners by providing them the feedback needed to improve their star ratings. In recent driver surveys, rider feedback was the #1 item drivers requested from us, and we listened! In the past week, we received the below feedback from your riders.
> 
> -- Surge Manipulation --
> 
> What does Surge Manipulation mean? A passenger let us know that they felt you unfairly canceled their trip to wait for surge to kick in, or that you otherwise unfairly gave preference to surge trips instead of their request.
> 
> How can I improve? Please accept every request that Uber sends your way, and do not cancel trips in the hope that your next dispatch will be a surge trip.
> 
> If we continue to receive negative feedback from riders that impacts your rating, your account will be reviewed and may be deactivated.
> 
> Note: we expect some negative feedback over time for all our partners as this is the nature of the business! If you believe you received this complaint unfairly, please don't worry: as long as this doesn't happen regularly, your account will not be affected. Again, the purpose of this message is to provide you constructive feedback to help you improve.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Uber Team
> --
> 
> Should I email them saying something? Should I request another phone since they now know what peeps are doing? There might be chances of start making dough again while in surge.


quit...you are doomed


----------



## Worcester Sauce

NightRider said:


> Honestly, I understand why they want acceptance rates to be high. However, if there are closer drivers that don't accept the ping, they should get penalized more than subsequent drivers who also pass on that ride. The fact that the fifth driver to pass on a ride is penalized as much as the first sucks because the further away you are from a pickup, the less money you make and even run the risk of operating at a loss at the current rates.


would be less of an issue if drivers were not oversaturated


----------



## Worcester Sauce

Optimus Uber said:


> Going to play Angel's advocate here.
> 
> If you grab from the existing cars on the road then by pulling the cars from another area you will create a surge in another area. At least that is my understanding of it. By adding my car to the pool of cars during the surge, it actually relieves the surge sooner and gets the cheap skates in a car quicker. It is still my understanding the surge is in place to get drivers on the road. At least that's was always told to me. If this isn't the case then why send out text messages that it's so busy, get in your car and get out there. Aren't those text messages contradicting the fact that the surge is just for the people that are already online? I'm missing something, it's like Uber wants there cake and eat it too. Out of all the people that are servicing these clients, who is the 1 person that makes money on every surge customer? I know, I only get a piece of the one that is in my car, yet Uber is giving this guy crap and saying he is the one causing it. Sorry, doesn't wash. Uber makes 20% of every surge victim. Where does the true conflict of interest lie?
> 
> The guy receiving the email isn't the criminal. Ask your self the 5 why's, find the root cause, it starts with a gigantic U. I have been doing this for a few months, if they don't want my car on the rode then let me know. But you better have a better reason than accusing me of having access to change the Uber Software. Because as it stands at the moment, I don't have access to change the surge numbers in the Uber system. But Uber has given me the rights to pick up and drop off customers when ever I want. That's the part of Uber's selling point. Work when you want too. I choose to work during peak times, you know the times that Uber sends you in an email that states, you can make the most money by working these hours.
> 
> It's all good, you have your opinion, I have mine. My car rolls for no less than 1.75x.
> 
> And for those customers that complain about the surge price, this is what I tell them. You paid a premium for a car because there is a lack of supply and an increased demand. You are riding in a very nice vehicle and not a Prius because you paid a premium. It's not like you got stuck in a low end cramped car. You paid for luxury, you got luxury. This is always sure to get a 1*, so whenever I have to go into this speach for the cheap skates, they are an automatic 1*. And as they leave, I say one fo two things to them. Thank you, I'll keep the surge premium as my tip or My kids thank you for the extra funds so they can purchase text books in college.
> 
> Yes, I can be a real D-Bag especially when the customer wants to come of all self-rightoues. Not my issue, if they don't understand economics. I just wish Uber would let it be that anytime anyone gets rated 3 or lower, I never have to see them again. They could learn a thing or two about Lyft. I don't need to be driving riff raff around.


you are screwed


----------



## Tommyo

that is pure projection - the rider is way more inclined and positioned to game the surges more so than ANY given driver. What is worse is that the memo from Tshirt and Hoody is absolute speculation.


----------



## UberRey

Let's just eliminte the rating system altogether. This isn't facebook, we can't unfriend each other. Take the ride or don't. Uber makes their money. STFU.


----------



## UberRey

Tommyo said:


> that is pure projection - the rider is way more inclined and positioned to game the surges more so than ANY given driver. What is worse is that the memo from Tshirt and Hoody is absolute speculation.


Exactly true. How many times have I accepted a ping during a surge only to have it cancelled en route... and then get the same ping 10 minutes later once the surge has ended. F*ck them.


----------



## UberRey

Ha. Remember when I was accused of being an Uber spy? LOLLLZ


----------



## Tommyo

And - - - How many accepted pings during a surge merely _appeared to be in the surge zone when they were not?_


----------



## Optimus Uber

UberRey said:


> Exactly true. How many times have I accepted a ping during a surge only to have it cancelled en route... and then get the same ping 10 minutes later once the surge has ended. F*ck them.


uh oh, someone is going to stop giving 5* to their clients, haha, I see you cracking....


----------



## Hi_Ko

Ok gentlemen, what about this.
Yesterday I was in Silver Lake area. It was a surge zone with 1.5 multiplier.
I was next to 7/11 got some coffee, and was just chilling out because had a long ride and was tired. There were some youngiez who were about to request a ride. I heard one of them was saying
- Oh, **** it, don't do it, it's surging again. **** them, let's wait a lil bit...
... **** us? Really?


----------



## Optimus Uber

Hi_Ko said:


> Ok gentlemen, what about this.
> Yesterday I was in Silver Lake area. It was a surge zone with 1.5 multiplier.
> I was next to 7/11 got some coffee, and was just chilling out because had a long ride and was tired. There were some youngiez who were about to request a ride. I heard one of them was saying
> - Oh, **** it, don't do it, it's surging again. **** them, let's wait a lil bit...
> ... **** us? Really?


exactly, **** us. How about **** uber, they are the ones causing it.

this is what upsets me when they get in the car and take it out on me. That's when I turn into a dick. Those ate the exact clients I don't want to give a ride too. Because they don't appreciate what you do for them. They have no respect.


----------



## OldTownSean

Optimus Uber said:


> exactly, **** us. How about **** uber, they are the ones causing it.
> 
> this is what upsets me when they get in the car and take it out on me. That's when I turn into a dick. Those ate the exact clients I don't want to give a ride too. Because they don't appreciate what you do for them. They have no respect.


If they just raise rates back up to a reasonable level drivers would be making money without surges instead of waiting ...

More drivers working = less surges.

Everyone wins.


----------



## uberyft

OldTownSean said:


> If they just rates back up to a reasonable level drivers would be making money without surges instead of waiting ...
> 
> More drivers working = less surges.
> 
> Everyone wins.


But the thing OTSean, is that Travis has been thinking and prolly developing the driverless version of Uber. He has already stated that the reason why rates are still high is because of the people driving the car, if not, it would be even cheaper.

I would love him to do an ama.


----------



## OldTownSean

uberyft said:


> But the thing OTSean, is that Travis has been thinking and prolly developing the driverless version of Uber. He has already stated that the reason why rates are still high is because of the people driving the car, if not, it would be even cheaper.
> 
> I would love him to do an ama.


We can always hope he just falls dead ... but as the song goes "only the good die young" unfortunately ...


----------



## Optimus Uber

uberyft said:


> But the thing OTSean, is that Travis has been thinking and prolly developing the driverless version of Uber. He has already stated that the reason why rates are still high is because of the people driving the car, if not, it would be even cheaper.
> 
> I would love him to do an ama.


the issue with that statement is he's not quantifying the vehicle in his statement. right now, he's not making the payments on the vehicles, the maintenance, etc. Even with driverless cars, there's still a big chunk of overhead that not being quantified. People are currently using older cars. All of the driverless cars will have to be new. Wait until there is no human being in the car and the vandalism happens on the car, like subways. These are repair bills that currently dont exists because people wont mess with a vehicle if there is another human in the car.


----------



## NightRider

Optimus Uber said:


> Going to play Angel's advocate here.
> 
> If you grab from the existing cars on the road then by pulling the cars from another area you will create a surge in another area. At least that is my understanding of it. By adding my car to the pool of cars during the surge, it actually relieves the surge sooner and gets the cheap skates in a car quicker. It is still my understanding the surge is in place to get drivers on the road. At least that's was always told to me. If this isn't the case then why send out text messages that it's so busy, get in your car and get out there. Aren't those text messages contradicting the fact that the surge is just for the people that are already online? I'm missing something, it's like Uber wants there cake and eat it too. Out of all the people that are servicing these clients, who is the 1 person that makes money on every surge customer? I know, I only get a piece of the one that is in my car, yet Uber is giving this guy crap and saying he is the one causing it. Sorry, doesn't wash. Uber makes 20% of every surge victim. Where does the true conflict of interest lie?
> 
> The guy receiving the email isn't the criminal. Ask your self the 5 why's, find the root cause, it starts with a gigantic U. I have been doing this for a few months, if they don't want my car on the rode then let me know. But you better have a better reason than accusing me of having access to change the Uber Software. Because as it stands at the moment, I don't have access to change the surge numbers in the Uber system. But Uber has given me the rights to pick up and drop off customers when ever I want. That's the part of Uber's selling point. Work when you want too. I choose to work during peak times, you know the times that Uber sends you in an email that states, you can make the most money by working these hours.
> 
> It's all good, you have your opinion, I have mine. My car rolls for no less than 1.75x.
> 
> And for those customers that complain about the surge price, this is what I tell them. You paid a premium for a car because there is a lack of supply and an increased demand. You are riding in a very nice vehicle and not a Prius because you paid a premium. It's not like you got stuck in a low end cramped car. You paid for luxury, you got luxury. This is always sure to get a 1*, so whenever I have to go into this speach for the cheap skates, they are an automatic 1*. And as they leave, I say one fo two things to them. Thank you, I'll keep the surge premium as my tip or My kids thank you for the extra funds so they can purchase text books in college.
> 
> Yes, I can be a real D-Bag especially when the customer wants to come of all self-rightoues. Not my issue, if they don't understand economics. I just wish Uber would let it be that anytime anyone gets rated 3 or lower, I never have to see them again. They could learn a thing or two about Lyft. I don't need to be driving riff raff around.
> 
> I have had a few people even say, they would never use UberPlus or ever pay a surge fee, they will just wait it out. I thought to myself, you're exactly the person I don't want in my car. Fine by me. You're happy with being cheap, then you get what you deserve. As people realize what UberX is paying, the cars are going to get older and in worse condition. Just the way it is. No one is going to go and get a new car for $1.10 a mile. I have already started hearing complaints how the cars that are showing up now are getting older and more run down. Seriously, what do you want for $1.10 a mile. Just saying, you get what you pay for. Then Uber has the nerve to send out an email to this guy about surge manipulation. Seriously, that's like telling everyone in the world that you can't control your own surge price and your great company that you have setup is so behind the times technically that any average driver on the street can manipulate the price that the customer pays. Sorry, but that email is hog wash. That email to me states, We are Uber, We blame everyone else and accept no responsibility. Still shaking my head in amazement how they can blame a driver for being able to set a higher price. Uber, it's your issue, not the drivers. Sorry, but any rating you receive for any driver that has the word surge in it, needs to be removed from that drivers feedback as it belongs rightfully to you.


The problem is that those "it's so busy" emails aren't tied to surges, they are general predication emails based on stuff going on or weather conditions. There is no alert that goes out when a surge starts. Surges come and go too quickly for them to get cars on the road this way. I think Uber may have said in the past the surges are about getting more cars on the road, but if they ever did say it they have long abandoned such language. If the surges caused a text message to be generated or the iPhone app to alert us, then it would make sense that surges are designed to put more drivers on the road. As it is, the only way you know that a surge is going on is to be logged into either the driver app or the rider app when the surge hits.


----------



## SgtMurphy

Worcester Sauce said:


> quit...you are doomed


If they shitcan me before I'm good and ready...





Just joking NSA, FBI, NAACP, IHOP etc
Therms was jokes!


----------



## SgtMurphy

UberRey said:


> Ha. Remember when I was accused of being an Uber spy? LOLLLZ


Remember when you were accused of being Moby (sort of) 
http://blog.dubspot.com/moby-dubspo...011-talks-djing-production-advice-creativity/

I can't think of who you're actually closer to, but I feel like it's someone in the music industry. It's still the morning so I'm not on my "A" game.


----------



## UberRey

SgtMurphy said:


> Remember when you were accused of being Moby (sort of)
> http://blog.dubspot.com/moby-dubspo...011-talks-djing-production-advice-creativity/
> 
> I can't think of who you're actually closer to, but I feel like it's someone in the music industry. It's still the morning so I'm not on my "A" game.


Methinks you're on to something.


----------

