# Uber fees are GST inclusive if you do not supply Uber with an ABN



## Paul Collins

So now Uber fees are gst inclusive?

https://www.ato.gov.au/general/ride-sourcing-and-tax/income-tax-and-ride-sourcing/

For drivers who do not submit their abn Uber are definitely adding in the gst and that can be claimed as a gst credit by drivers. The actual question is for drivers who have submitted their abn, are the fees gst inc as the ATO indicate?


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## Who is John Galt?

Dear Lord, Paul. Please pay attention. This has been discussed 2564 times now.

What is your primary concern with those screenshots? What is it that you are having trouble with?
As you are "fortunate to have the personal contact details for Uber management in Brisbane", I would have thought a quick buzz on the hotline would have brought forward any resolution to your concerns.

.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

You could have consol @UberDriverAU,he has a knowledge about GST insideout .That would be more reliable then a foulty Hotline


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## Paul Collins

So über pay GST on the uber fees when a driver does not quote their ABN and does not pay GST on their fees when a driver does. Mmmmmm....
I would have thought they should pay 100% of the time.


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## Longivity

But if you don't provide their ABN, UBER will charge the fee up to 27.5% (25% + 2.5%)

Provide ABN: 100 = 65.91 + 25 + 9.09
Fare Paid Uber GST

Don't Provide ABN : 100 = (65.91) + (9.09 - 2.5) + (25 + 2.5)
Fare Paid GST New Uber fee

But I worry about the City fee for every trip... Do we have to pay GST for City fee?

Actually, we don't receive the city fee from Uber. Uber just collect the city fee from riders:

Trip Detail
Wed, October 18, 12:39 PM
Fare
AU$7.47
Uber Fee
- AU$1.87
Booking fee and other contributions (payment) (1+0.55) City fee and Booking fee
+ AU$1.55
Booking fee and other contributions (deduction) (1+0.55)
- AU$1.55
Tax on Fee
+ AU$0.05
Total Payout
AU$5.65

I got the Tax Summary for last month like:

FARE BREAKDOWN OTHER INCOME BREAKDOWN
Gross Fares (Uber Service Fee included)1 : AUD 800
City fee : AUD 50.00
Booking fee :  AUD 27.50
TOTAL AUD : 877.50

Uber service fee AUD 200

So how much GST should I pay?

1) 
GST = 800/11 + 27.5 /11
= 72.72 + 2.5 
= 75.22

or:

2)
GST = 800/11 + 50/11 + 27.5/11
= 877.50 / 11
= 79.77


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## Paul Collins

Longivity said:


> But if you don't provide their ABN, UBER will charge the fee up to 27.5% (25% + 2.5%)
> 
> Provide ABN: 100 = 65.91 + 25 + 9.09
> Fare Paid Uber GST
> 
> Don't Provide ABN : 100 = (65.91) + (9.09 - 2.5) + (25 + 2.5)
> Fare Paid GST New Uber fee
> 
> But I worry about the City fee for every trip... Do we have to pay GST for City fee?
> 
> Actually, we don't receive the city fee from Uber. Uber just collect the city fee from riders:
> 
> Trip Detail
> Wed, October 18, 12:39 PM
> Fare
> AU$7.47
> Uber Fee
> - AU$1.87
> Booking fee and other contributions (payment) (1+0.55) City fee and Booking fee
> + AU$1.55
> Booking fee and other contributions (deduction) (1+0.55)
> - AU$1.55
> Tax on Fee
> + AU$0.05
> Total Payout
> AU$5.65
> 
> I got the Tax Summary for last month like:
> 
> FARE BREAKDOWN OTHER INCOME BREAKDOWN
> Gross Fares (Uber Service Fee included)1 : AUD 800
> City fee : AUD 50.00
> Booking fee : AUD 27.50
> TOTAL AUD :  877.50
> 
> Uber service fee AUD 200
> 
> So how much GST should I pay?
> 
> 1)
> GST = 800/11 + 27.5 /11
> = 72.72 + 2.5
> = 75.22
> 
> or:
> 
> 2)
> GST = 800/11 + 50/11 + 27.5/11
> = 877.50 / 11
> = 79.77


Any fees paid by a rider are GST inc, so if the City Fee is paid by riders, it is GST inc and you must pay the GST on it.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> So über pay GST


Mr.Collins !!!!
you have got a rent free usage of my brain when you used my phrase with "ulcer on my lip"but I'm not sure if Mr.Galt is going to be too happy about two dots above "u" in uber you have used in your post.
It is a common knowledge that imitation is a best form of flattery but if used too often it changes to abuse.
P.S. For any help regarding GST Law I'm sure that UberDriverAU can be a great assistance.
Have a pleasant day


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## Where to Mister?

City fees, or government levies, are usually GST exclusive. On the Uber-issued passenger invoices for my pax, I note that it does not add 10% GST for the City fee. The invoice looks something like this:

Fare GST: $1.00 Net: $11.00 Total: $12.00

Note that GST has only been charged on $10, not the $11 as the fare includes a $1 Government Levy.
(I’ve left out the 55c booking fee for clarity)


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## Paul Collins

20% über fee for this case.

No ABN quoted to uber
Pax charge $110 - $11 GST
Uber Fee $22 plus $2.20 GST
Driver gets $85.80 with $8.80 GST to pay
Net $77 as income after GST

ABN quoted to uber
Pax charge $110 - $11 GST
Uber Fee $22 
Driver gets $88 with $11 GST to pay
Net $77 as income after GST

So no difference to the driver and the ATO gets the same, assuming uber pays $2.20 and the driver pays $8.80 when no abn quoted.
So why did they do it?


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## Who is John Galt?

Paul Collins said:


> So no difference to the driver and the ATO gets the same, assuming uber pays $2.20 and the driver pays $8.80 when no abn quoted.
> So why did they do it?


Why did who, do what?

.


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## UberDriverAU

If people want to know why Uber doesn't have to pay GST when an ABN and GST details are provided, it's because of the following provisions in the GST law. Highlighting in red is mine:

*A NEW TAX SYSTEM (GOODS AND SERVICES TAX) ACT 1999 - SECT 9.25
Supplies connected with the indirect tax zone
*
_...

(5) A supply of anything other than goods or * real property is connected with the indirect tax zone if:
_
_(a) the thing is done in the indirect tax zone; or

(b) the supplier makes the supply through an * enterprise that the supplier * carries on in the indirect tax zone; or

(c) all of the following apply:
_
_(i) neither paragraph (a) nor (b) applies in respect of the thing;

(ii) the thing is a right or option to acquire another thing;

(iii) the supply of the other thing would be connected with the indirect tax zone; or
_​_(d) the * recipient of the supply is an * Australian consumer._​_​...

Meaning of *Australian consumer*

(7) An entity is an *Australian consumer* of a supply made to the entity if:
_
_(a) the entity is an * Australian resident (other than an entity that is an Australian resident solely because the definition of *Australia* in the * ITAA 1997 includes the external Territories); and

(b) the entity:
_
_(i) is not * registered; or

(ii) if the entity is registered--the entity does not acquire the thing supplied solely or partly for the purpose of an * enterprise that the entity * carries on._​_
Note: Suppliers must take reasonable steps to ascertain whether recipients are Australian consumers: see section 84-100._
*

A NEW TAX SYSTEM (GOODS AND SERVICES TAX) ACT 1999 - SECT 84.100*
_*When entities are treated as not being Australian consumers*
(1) The * GST law applies in relation to you as if another entity was not an * Australian consumer of a supply if:
_
_(a) you take reasonable steps to obtain information about whether or not the other entity is an Australian consumer of the supply; and

(b) after taking those steps, you reasonably believe that the other entity is not an Australian consumer of the supply.
_​_(2) Without limiting subsection (1), the * GST law applies in relation to you as if another entity was not an * Australian consumer of a supply if:
_
_(a) your usual business systems and processes provide you with a reasonable basis for forming a reasonable belief about whether the other entity is an Australian consumer of the supply; and

(b) you reasonably believe that the other entity is not an Australian consumer of the supply.
_​_(3)  For the purposes of subsections (1) and (2), to the extent that your belief that the other entity is not an * Australian consumer of the supply is based on the other entity being * registered, your belief is reasonable only if:
_
_(a) the other entity's * ABN, or the other identifying information prescribed under subsection (4) relating to the other entity, has been disclosed to you; and

(b) the other entity has provided to you a declaration or information that indicates that the other entity is registered.
_​_(4) The Commissioner may, by legislative instrument, prescribe identifying information for the purposes of paragraph (3)(a)._​
So if you have disclosed your ABN and declared that you are registered for GST, Uber has taken reasonable steps to ascertain that you are not an "Australian consumer", and therefore their supply is not connected with the "indirect tax zone", and therefore no GST is payable by them.



Paul Collins said:


> 20% über fee for this case.
> 
> No ABN quoted to uber
> Pax charge $110 - $11 GST
> Uber Fee $22 plus $2.20 GST
> Driver gets $85.80 with $8.80 GST to pay
> Net $77 as income after GST
> 
> ABN quoted to uber
> Pax charge $110 - $11 GST
> Uber Fee $22
> Driver gets $88 with $11 GST to pay
> Net $77 as income after GST
> 
> So no difference to the driver and the ATO gets the same, assuming uber pays $2.20 and the driver pays $8.80 when no abn quoted.
> So why did they do it?


Have you ever had Uber miss 5 cent payments that you had to spend time chasing up? Have you ever had split fare fees where Uber took the full amount and didn't leave you anything to cover that GST liability that you must cover out of your own pocket? If Uber did the right thing and we could trust them not to stuff things up, then there truly wouldn't be a net difference between giving and not giving our ABN and GST details.


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## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> If people want to know why Uber doesn't have to pay GST when an ABN and GST details are provided, it's because of the following provisions in the GST law. Highlighting in red is mine:
> 
> *A NEW TAX SYSTEM (GOODS AND SERVICES TAX) ACT 1999 - SECT 9.25
> Supplies connected with the indirect tax zone
> *
> _...
> 
> (5) A supply of anything other than goods or * real property is connected with the indirect tax zone if:
> _
> _(a) the thing is done in the indirect tax zone; or
> 
> (b) the supplier makes the supply through an * enterprise that the supplier * carries on in the indirect tax zone; or
> 
> (c) all of the following apply:
> _
> _(i) neither paragraph (a) nor (b) applies in respect of the thing;
> 
> (ii) the thing is a right or option to acquire another thing;
> 
> (iii) the supply of the other thing would be connected with the indirect tax zone; or
> _​_(d) the * recipient of the supply is an * Australian consumer._​_​...
> 
> Meaning of *Australian consumer*
> 
> (7) An entity is an *Australian consumer* of a supply made to the entity if:
> _
> _(a) the entity is an * Australian resident (other than an entity that is an Australian resident solely because the definition of *Australia* in the * ITAA 1997 includes the external Territories); and
> 
> (b) the entity:
> _
> _(i) is not * registered; or
> 
> (ii) if the entity is registered--the entity does not acquire the thing supplied solely or partly for the purpose of an * enterprise that the entity * carries on._​_Note: Suppliers must take reasonable steps to ascertain whether recipients are Australian consumers: see section 84-100._
> *
> 
> A NEW TAX SYSTEM (GOODS AND SERVICES TAX) ACT 1999 - SECT 84.100*
> _*When entities are treated as not being Australian consumers*
> (1) The * GST law applies in relation to you as if another entity was not an * Australian consumer of a supply if:
> _
> _(a) you take reasonable steps to obtain information about whether or not the other entity is an Australian consumer of the supply; and
> 
> (b) after taking those steps, you reasonably believe that the other entity is not an Australian consumer of the supply.
> _​_(2) Without limiting subsection (1), the * GST law applies in relation to you as if another entity was not an * Australian consumer of a supply if:
> _
> _(a) your usual business systems and processes provide you with a reasonable basis for forming a reasonable belief about whether the other entity is an Australian consumer of the supply; and
> 
> (b) you reasonably believe that the other entity is not an Australian consumer of the supply.
> _​_(3)  For the purposes of subsections (1) and (2), to the extent that your belief that the other entity is not an * Australian consumer of the supply is based on the other entity being * registered, your belief is reasonable only if:
> _
> _(a) the other entity's * ABN, or the other identifying information prescribed under subsection (4) relating to the other entity, has been disclosed to you; and
> 
> (b) the other entity has provided to you a declaration or information that indicates that the other entity is registered.
> _​_(4) The Commissioner may, by legislative instrument, prescribe identifying information for the purposes of paragraph (3)(a)._​
> So if you have disclosed your ABN and declared that you are registered for GST, Uber has taken reasonable steps to ascertain that you are not an "Australian consumer", and therefore their supply is not connected with the "indirect tax zone", and therefore no GST is payable by them.
> 
> Have you ever had Uber miss 5 cent payments that you had to spend time chasing up? Have you ever had split fare fees where Uber took the full amount and didn't leave you anything to cover that GST liability that you must cover out of your own pocket? If Uber did the right thing and we could trust them not to stuff things up, then there truly wouldn't be a net difference between giving and not giving our ABN and GST details.


Thanks. One would think that the drivers licence provided to Uber would be proof enough of an AU entity. Mmmm....


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## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> Thanks. One would think that the drivers licence provided to Uber would be proof enough of an AU entity. Mmmm....


Does a driver licence have your ABN and GST registration status on it?


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## Jack Malarkey

Paul Collins, didn't the Uber management people in Queensland once tell you that no Uber fees included GST? I seem to remember your writing that at some point.

I recall being very puzzled by the advice at the time.

I suspect they didn't correctly understand the position.


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## Paul Collins

Jack Malarkey said:


> Paul Collins, didn't the Uber management people in Queensland once tell you that no Uber fees included GST? I seem to remember your writing that at some point.
> 
> I recall being very puzzled by the advice at the time.
> 
> I suspect they didn't correctly understand the position.


Ah no. The booking fees and split fees are gst inc and that was confirmed by Uber and as UberDriverAU pointed out, Uber are still not accounting correctly to drivers on split fees.



UberDriverAU said:


> Does a driver licence have your ABN and GST registration status on it?


I get that, but it is clear that the ATO require all Uber drivers to have an abn, so if a driver signs up to Uber, then I was suggest that uber could assume that all drivers have an abn. Just thinking out loud...


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## UberDriverAU

Paul Collins said:


> I get that, but it is clear that the ATO require all Uber drivers to have an abn, so if a driver signs up to Uber, then I was suggest that uber could assume that all drivers have an abn. Just thinking out loud...


Be that as it may, the law is quite clear. For Uber to treat us as a business (ie. not an "Australian consumer"), we need to have supplied them with an ABN and a declaration that we are registered for GST. If they don't have that, they must treat us as an "Australian consumer" and pay GST on taxable supplies made to us.


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## Who is John Galt?

Paul Collins said:


> Ah no......... Just thinking out loud...


In one member's immortal words...."Dear me...."
.


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## weekendnightdriver

GC do.
Uber don't.


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## Paul Collins

weekendnightdriver said:


> View attachment 168335
> 
> 
> GC do.
> Uber don't.


Uber do if you do not provide your abn to them.


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## Who is John Galt?

.
Groundhog Day......time for an Andie. 
This is another shot in a non glamour series, from which I have previously posted one other shot .
These are fantastic 'back garden' shots.
Enjoy.










I have the original (digital) of this 1926 x 2890 1.05MB if anyone wants it.


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## weekendnightdriver

Paul Collins said:


> Uber do if you do not provide your abn to them.


Sorry. I was wrong. Uber actually collects GST on their service fee for non-business end user since 1 Aug 2017 after the so called Netflix tax law.



Paul Collins said:


> For drivers who do not submit their abn Uber are definitely adding in the gst and that can be claimed as a gst credit by drivers.


So, how can claim GST credit? Do you have the tax invoice? From whom? Uber Australia P/L (ABN 49 160 299 865)? For a purchase of more than $82.50 (including GST), you should have the tax invoice.

Uber charges GST to you because you claimed that you are non-business end user by not quoting your ABN. That means "you use Uber service for private purpose but not business purpose." You can't claim GST credit for the private purpose purchase.

If you want to claim GST credit, play it according to the rule.


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## weekendnightdriver

It is the same case as "you buy PlayStation for *private purpose* but can't claim GST credit for it."


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## UberDriverAU

weekendnightdriver said:


> Sorry. I was wrong. Uber actually collects GST on their service fee for non-business end user since 1 Aug 2017 after the so called Netflix tax law.


From the 1st of July 2017.


weekendnightdriver said:


> So, how can claim GST credit? Do you have the tax invoice? From whom? Uber Australia P/L (ABN 49 160 299 865)? For a purchase of more than $82.50 (including GST), you should have the tax invoice.


Uber is not required to have an ABN, therefore you'll never find a tax invoice with their ABN on it. They do indeed issue a tax invoice that contains the amount of GST payable by them.


weekendnightdriver said:


> Uber charges GST to you because you claimed that you are non-business end user by not quoting your ABN. That means "you use Uber service for private purpose but not business purpose." You can't claim GST credit for the private purpose purchase.


No, that's not what it means. In the absence of your ABN and GST details they are required by law to treat you _like _a consumer, but that doesn't mean that you _are_ a consumer and not a business. GST registered Australian business are required to treat you like a consumer for all transactions, yet you can still claim GST credits. An entitlement to GST credits is what that differentiates businesses from consumers.



weekendnightdriver said:


> It is the same case as "you buy PlayStation for *private purpose* but can't claim GST credit for it."


The difference is you don't typically buy a PlayStation for anything but a private purpose. It's impossible to take a paid Uber trip, get slugged Uber's fees, and have their fees be anything other than for a business purpose.


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## weekendnightdriver

UberDriverAU said:


> They do indeed issue a tax invoice that contains the amount of GST payable by them.


Aside from all the other things, what is the reason you want to claim GST credit while you not providing ABN to Uber?
Just to hide your real name from the pax's tax invoice?


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## UberDriverAU

weekendnightdriver said:


> Aside from all the other things, what is the reason you want to claim GST credit while you not providing ABN to Uber?
> Just to hide your real name from the pax's tax invoice?


For the simple reason that Uber is not trustworthy and I don't want to waste my time dealing with them. They make life more difficult than it needs to be because you have to waste time verifying they've left you 5 cents per trip as they should, and when (not if) they don't do that you have to waste an inordinate amount of time dealing with the morons in support to get it fixed. And noone here should want to deal with the morons in support. Then you have the case of the split fare fee where Uber acknowledges that you are out of pocket because you have to pay GST on that fee, but they refuse to leave you anything to cover your GST liability. Let them play such games with the ATO instead. If they don't pay the correct amount to the ATO then that has no impact on me, neither money-wise nor time-wise.


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## weekendnightdriver

UberDriverAU said:


> In the absence of your ABN and GST details they are required by law to treat you _like _a consumer, but that doesn't mean that you _are_ a consumer and not a business.


In the usual purchase, you don't claim that you are buying it for business or non-business purpose.
In the case of Uber service fee GST, you are charged GST because you purchase it for *explicitly non-business purpose*.
Netflix tax applies ONLY TO NON-BUSINESS END USER.


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## UberDriverAU

weekendnightdriver said:


> In the usual purchase, you don't claim that you are buying it for business or non-business purpose.
> In the case of Uber service fee GST, you are charged GST because you purchase it for *explicitly non-business purpose*.


Wrong. If you don't provide your ABN and GST details then you have not stated a purpose at all. Only if you provide these details can Uber reasonably believe that that your purpose is a business purpose.


weekendnightdriver said:


> Netflix tax applies ONLY TO NON-BUSINESS END USER.


More correctly, the "Netflix tax" does not apply to *confirmed* business transactions. If it's not confirmed, then it may be a business transaction or it may be a consumer transaction.


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## weekendnightdriver

UberDriverAU said:


> you have to waste time verifying they've left you 5 cents per trip as they should, and when (not if) they don't do that you have to waste an inordinate amount of time dealing with the morons in support to get it fixed. And noone here should want to deal with the morons in support. Then you have the case of the split fare fee where Uber acknowledges that you are out of pocket because you have to pay GST on that fee, but they refuse to leave you anything to cover your GST liability. Let them play such games with the ATO instead. If they don't pay the correct amount to the ATO then that has no impact on me, neither money-wise nor time-wise.


I don't think 'hiding ABN only to Uber' does not solve this problem. The GST fee on split fare is still missing in the Tax Invoice without Uber's ABN. So you claim GST on split fare without Tax Invoice?

For me, split fare is around $5 for a month, I would let 45.45c go and forget about it.



UberDriverAU said:


> More correctly, the "Netflix tax" does not apply to *confirmed* business transactions. If it's not confirmed, then it may be a business transaction or it may be a consumer transaction.


"""
only supplies made to consumers will be caught: business-to-business transactions will be exempt.
"""
https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parlia...ry_Library/pubs/rp/BudgetReview201516/Digital

Consumers don't and can't claim GST credit.


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## UberDriverAU

weekendnightdriver said:


> I don't think 'hiding ABN only to Uber' does not solve this problem. The GST fee on split fare is still missing in the Tax Invoice without Uber's ABN. So you claim GST on split fare without Tax Invoice?
> 
> For me, split fare is around $5 for a month, I would let 45.45c go and forget about it.


How many trips do you do where Uber takes more than $82.50? I don't think I've ever had such a trip in over two years. No tax invoice is required unless they exceed the threshold on a particular trip.


weekendnightdriver said:


> """
> only supplies made to consumers will be caught: business-to-business transactions will be exempt.
> """
> https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parlia...ry_Library/pubs/rp/BudgetReview201516/Digital
> 
> Consumers don't and can't claim GST credit.


What you are arguing for isn't supported by the wording of the legislation. It's simply not the case that if you don't provide your ABN and GST details, you then can't claim a GST credit. Nothing in the legislation prevents you from claiming a GST credit in this scenario.


weekendnightdriver said:


> Consumers don't and can't claim GST credit.


Correct. And because Uber's fees are incurred in "carrying on your enterprise", you can claim a GST credit for these fees.


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## weekendnightdriver

UberDriverAU said:


> How many trips do you do where Uber takes more than $82.50? I don't think I've ever had such a trip in over two years. No tax invoice is required unless they exceed the threshold on a particular trip.


The Tax Invoice attached in OP is more than $100.



UberDriverAU said:


> What you are arguing for isn't supported by the wording of the legislation. It's simply not the case that if you don't provide your ABN and GST details, you then can't claim a GST credit. Nothing in the legislation prevents you from claiming a GST credit in this scenario.


From the wording "only supplies made to consumers will be caught: business-to-business transactions will be exempt."
I can see that they won't accept any GST credit agasint it.



UberDriverAU said:


> Correct. And because Uber's fees are incurred in "carrying on your enterprise", you can claim a GST credit for these fees.


BTW, I don't want to keep on this ever boring topic and I am actually not interested in how you do BAS or tax return.
What I am really interested in is "What is the reason or real benefit of 'hiding ABN only to Uber'?"
I haven't seen it yet and if there is good reason, I would like to share the benefit by hiding my ABN only to Uber.


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## Paul Collins

By not providing your abn I would expect that a flag would be raised as Uber hand all data over to the ato these days.
I am not sure how the ato would view drivers not providing their abn to Uber really.


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## UberDriverAU

weekendnightdriver said:


> The Tax Invoice attached in OP is more than $100.


The tax invoice relates to many individual transactions. The requirement applies to individual transactions.


weekendnightdriver said:


> From the wording "only supplies made to consumers will be caught: business-to-business transactions will be exempt."
> I can see that they won't accept any GST credit agasint it.


The wording on the page you link to is irrelevant because it's not the legislation.


weekendnightdriver said:


> BTW, I don't want to keep on this ever boring topic and I am actually not interested in how you do BAS or tax return.
> What I am really interested in is "What is the reason or real benefit of 'hiding ABN only to Uber'?"
> I haven't seen it yet and if there is good reason, I would like to share the benefit by hiding my ABN only to Uber.


We all place different priorities on things. Not having to deal with the morons in support is a good enough reason for me. Uber would have stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from drivers because of their split fare fee policy, and doing my part to make that impossible is also a good enough reason for me. If you don't care then that's your prerogative.



Paul Collins said:


> By not providing your abn I would expect that a flag would be raised as Uber hand all data over to the ato these days.
> I am not sure how the ato would view drivers not providing their abn to Uber really.


I imagine they couldn't care less. As long as your BASes and income tax return matches Uber's data then no red flags would be raised in my view.


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## Paul Collins

UberDriverAU said:


> The tax invoice relates to many individual transactions. The requirement applies to individual transactions.
> 
> The wording on the page you link to is irrelevant because it's not the legislation.
> 
> We all place different priorities on things. Not having to deal with the morons in support is a good enough reason for me. Uber would have stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from drivers because of their split fare fee policy, and doing my part to make that impossible is also a good enough reason for me. If you don't care then that's your prerogative.
> 
> I imagine they couldn't care less. As long as your BASes and income tax return matches Uber's data then no red flags would be raised in my view.


Mmmm... yes as all they really want is the tax. Still, it causes them more work I suppose in the data matching and would put you into a 'group' of Uber drivers who have not declared their abn to Uber but who actually have an abn.

In my case I await a special ruling for using my company and not as a sole trader. Gst and all tax paid still.


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## weekendnightdriver

UberDriverAU said:


> We all place different priorities on things. Not having to deal with the morons in support is a good enough reason for me. Uber would have stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from drivers because of their split fare fee policy, and doing my part to make that impossible is also a good enough reason for me. If you don't care then that's your prerogative.


So you can claim hundreds of thousands of dollars of GST on split fare to Uber by hiding ABN only from Uber? That means you don't base your claim on their Tax Invoice but you are calculating all the GST and Tax on your own from their fare?
BTW, in my last quarter's total fare was $12,000 and odd, of which GST for split fare was $1.28. So I lost $1 for GST on split fare during the last quarter. I would let it go and don't want to play outside the rule.



Paul Collins said:


> it causes them more work I suppose in the data matching and would put you into a 'group' of Uber drivers who have not declared their abn to Uber but who actually have an abn.


Uber already submitted all the payment data to ATO. It includes paid money, your name and bank account detail. Bank account has TFN.
Paid money -> Bank account -> TFN
How long do you think it would take to match them? More work? How much? Lol


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## UberDriverAU

weekendnightdriver said:


> So you can claim hundreds of thousands of dollars of GST on split fare to Uber by hiding ABN only from Uber? That means you don't base your claim on their Tax Invoice but you are calculating all the GST and Tax on your own from their fare?
> BTW, in my last quarter's total fare was $12,000 and odd, of which GST for split fare was $1.28. So I lost $1 for GST on split fare during the last quarter. I would let it go and don't want to play outside the rule.


I said hundreds of thousands of dollars from driver*s*. Uber has unjustly pocketed a lot of money at drivers' expense. Claiming GST credits when you're entitled to them is not playing outside the rules. To date you're the only person I've come across who has made this claim. You're entitled to your view, but it's wrong and not supported by the legislation.


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## weekendnightdriver

UberDriverAU said:


> Claiming GST credits when you're entitled to them is not playing outside the rules.


What made you entitled to claim GST credit against Uber?
Both of you look no better than tax dodging international students from the subcontinent.


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## Paul Collins

weekendnightdriver said:


> What made you entitled to claim GST credit against Uber?
> Both of you look no better than tax dodging international students from the subcontinent.


I've pay GST and have from my first trip 2 years ago. I also pay tax on income and I assume UberDriverAU has done the same. Not sure we are all on the home planet.


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## UberDriverAU

weekendnightdriver said:


> What made you entitled to claim GST credit against Uber?
> Both of you look no better than tax dodging international students from the subcontinent.


http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/antsasta1999402/s11.20.html


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## weekendnightdriver

Paul Collins said:


> I've pay GST and have from my first trip 2 years ago. I also pay tax on income and I assume UberDriverAU has done the same. Not sure we are all on the home planet.


It goes back to square one again. The question is: *"What is the reason or real benefit of 'hiding ABN only to Uber'?"*
If you do all the tax duties right, you will pay the same amount of GST and income tax in the end no matter you uploaded ABN to Uber or not. I was just curious about what kind of benefits we can have by hiding ABN only from Uber?

GST credit on split fare? They don't charge GST on split fare when you don't quote ABN therfore they don't remit GST on this part. And you claim GST credit on split fare by hiding your ABN from Uber?
It sucks because I pay $1 or $2 on behalf of Uber every 3 months. But I can let it go. It is just one cigarette worth.

Partner agreement:
"""
*4.4. Taxes.* You acknowledge and agree that you are required to: (a) complete all tax registration obligations and calculate and remit all tax liabilities related to your provision of Transportation Services as required by applicable law; and *(b) provide Rasier Pacific with all relevant tax information* (including, without limitation, a valid GST registration number belonging to you, if obtaining a GST registration number is required of you by applicable law).
"""

Uber is actually making $1.8million+ profit in a year in Australia only and they may not afford to lose this market. They are being banned from many countries/cities by breaching the laws. If they want to go fully by the laws and wash their hands from all the illegal activities, you will be the first to be deactivated by breaching the agreement.



UberDriverAU said:


> http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/antsasta1999402/s11.20.html


When you get audited by ATO inspectors, quote the link and teach them about 'creditable acquisition.'


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## ST DYMPHNA son

Paul Collins said:


> Not sure we are all on the home planet.


Mmmmmmmmm.......
"Ground Control to Major Tom
Ground Control to Major Tom
Take your pills and put your helmet on"
*David Bowie


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## UberDriverAU

weekendnightdriver said:


> GST credit on split fare? They don't charge GST on split fare when you don't quote ABN therfore they don't remit GST on this part.


The ATO would be interested you know if they're not paying GST when they should be.


weekendnightdriver said:


> And you claim GST credit on split fare by hiding your ABN from Uber?


Indeed you can.


weekendnightdriver said:


> Partner agreement:
> """
> *4.4. Taxes.* You acknowledge and agree that you are required to: (a) complete all tax registration obligations and calculate and remit all tax liabilities related to your provision of Transportation Services as required by applicable law; and *(b) provide Rasier Pacific with all relevant tax information* (including, without limitation, a valid GST registration number belonging to you, if obtaining a GST registration number is required of you by applicable law).
> """


If Uber wants to require an ABN and GST registration they know they'll lose a bucket load of drivers. They've already made that hollow threat and reneged on it.


weekendnightdriver said:


> When you get audited by ATO inspectors, quote the link and teach them about 'creditable acquisition.'


I'm more than happy to teach ATO investigators what the law is, but I'd hope they're a bit more clued on than some on these forums.


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## weekendnightdriver

UberDriverAU said:


> The ATO would be interested you know if they're not paying GST when they should be.
> 
> Indeed you can.
> 
> If Uber wants to require an ABN and GST registration they know they'll lose a bucket load of drivers. They've already made that hollow threat and reneged on it.
> 
> I'm more than happy to teach ATO investigators what the law is, but I'd hope they're a bit more clued on than some on these forums.


Can't you read the big red question? That's all I want to know. Aa I already said, you are no more than tax dodgers.


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## Hugh G

weekendnightdriver said:


> Aside from all the other things, what is the reason you want to claim GST credit _*while you not providing ABN to Uber*_?
> Just to hide your real name from the pax's tax invoice?


In this scenario the Driver's name is on the Pax Tax Invoice......


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## Who is John Galt?

*.*
*"What is the reason or real benefit of 'hiding ABN only to Uber'?"*
Besides being able to claim legitimate GST credits, it is in some small way an ability to stick it up Über.
Why wouldn't you? 
In no way are you dodging or avoiding tax obligations and it is a way of ensuring that Über also meets theirs.
.


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## weekendnightdriver

Who is John Galt? said:


> *.*
> *"What is the reason or real benefit of 'hiding ABN only to Uber'?"*
> Besides being able to claim legitimate GST credits, it is in some small way an ability to stick it up Über.
> Why wouldn't you?
> In no way are you dodging or avoiding tax obligations and it is a way of ensuring that Über also meets theirs.
> .


Claiming that somebody else paid the tax for which you should pay when you explicitly know that they do not is tax dodging. False claiming does not force them to face it. Do you really think that if you claim GST credit on split fare will make ATO chase that GST from Uber?

BTW, is the $1 out of $12,000 real reason you don't tell your ABN to Uber?


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## weekendnightdriver

Hugh G said:


> In this scenario the Driver's name is on the Pax Tax Invoice......


What is the big deal with pax's knowing your real name? You are doing business and want to stay anonymous in doing so?
ATO seems to have finished cracking down on tradies who falsely claims GST on Bunnings and started to cracking down on Uber drivers who is not doing it properly. Taking those tax dodgers away from the road and bringing back the surges will make Ubering the fare ground for all the law abiding ants.

Anyway, if I do anything not in a legally binding standard way, posting and talking about it on the public forum is the last thing I would do.


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## Who is John Galt?

weekendnightdriver said:


> What is the big deal with pax's knowing your real name? You are doing business and want to stay anonymous in doing so?
> ATO seems to have finished cracking down on tradies who falsely claims GST on Bunnings and started to cracking down on Uber drivers who is not doing it properly. Taking those tax dodgers away from the road and bringing back the surges will make Ubering the fare ground for all the law abiding ants.
> 
> Anyway, if I do anything not in a legally binding standard way, posting and talking about it on the public forum is the last thing I would do.


There is no illegality in not providing your ABN to Über.
There is no tax avoidance (on the driver's part) in not providing your ABN to Über.

As I said above:
"Besides being able to claim legitimate GST credits, it is in some small way an ability to stick it up Über.
Why wouldn't you?
In no way are you dodging or avoiding tax obligations and it is a way of ensuring that Über also meets theirs."

.


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## weekendnightdriver

Who is John Galt? said:


> Besides being able to claim legitimate GST credits, it is in some small way an ability to stick it up Über.


Could you detail about it? Are you also claiming GST credit for their service fee? It is from my pure curiosity.
If I can understand the exact mechanism in sticking it up Uber, I would really like to follow your way.


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## Who is John Galt?

weekendnightdriver said:


> Could you detail about it? Are you also claiming GST credit for their service fee? It is from my pure curiosity.
> If I can understand the exact mechanism in sticking it up Uber, I would really like to follow your way.


Yes, I'm claiming GST credit on their service fee. Read -
* this post *
and
* this post *

* in this thread *

Read the whole * thread * it has good material.

As usual, most of the knowledge is provided by UberDriverAU
.


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## UberDriverAU

weekendnightdriver said:


> BTW, is the $1 out of $12,000 real reason you don't tell your ABN to Uber?


Preventing Uber from stealing another dollar from me is sufficient reason for me to never provide them with my ABN and GST details. If that's not a good enough reason for you, I really couldn't give a damn. Even if it's only $1 per month, I'm still better off and I don't have to waste as much time.


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