# The other side of the tipping point....



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

I've got about 300 rides under my belt now - not a lot, but enough to gauge my market and the average passenger I get. Most passengers do not tip. But those that do, more often than not, are dropping 5's, 10's and 20's on me. Even the occasional $50 or $60 tip for a nice ride home after a happy night out...

So, this makes me wonder: If tipping were added to the app, would I see a whole bunch of $1 and $2 tips - and see my big tippers just adding $5 to the ride via the app? Also, those tips received through the app are reported income and taxable (not that anyone would fail to report their cash tips, of course... just sayin').

I' d love to hear others thoughts on this.
Is it possible that we should be careful what we wish for?


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## 7Miles (Dec 17, 2014)

I am doing both - Uber and Lyft. On lyft about 20% customers tip and yes , usually $2 each time. But I preffer them better.
Because on Uber I do get tips but weird once and yes bigger. One customer was married but wanted me to meet him next day because he came up with an idea of Uber app combined with Match.com app. And he really wanted me to meet him for some reason to discuss that app, gave me $20.
I am sorry but I preffer steady $2 tip from a nice girl any day. Plus Uber tips are very. Very rare.
Lyft tips help me to pay the 20% that lyft takes, not all of course but it helps. Lyft also does not charge 20% on tips- it's all yours.


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## Showa50 (Nov 30, 2014)

I choose the $1 or $2 tip from every rider rather than the rare $20. On the Lyft side it averages out to about a buck per ride because there's always a few ballers that know how to use the app and will tip 6-8 bucks.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Showa50 said:


> I choose the $1 or $2 tip from every rider rather than the rare $20. On the Lyft side it averages out to about a buck per ride because there's always a few ballers that know how to use the app and will tip 6-8 bucks.


And I guess that's my point...
If the 'tip-in-app' function only averages $1/trip (~$0.70 after taxes),
then I'd rather have the cash tip because I average a LOT more than $1 per trip.
This evening: 14 trips = $54 tips (+ 6 paid cancellations)...
- one $20, two $10 & one $14 tip.
That's an avg of $3.86/trip - *400% higher than what you show as your Lyft "in-app-tips"tips*.

2 anecdotes are interesting, but hardly indicative of the 160,000 US drivers...
I hope others will chime in with more examples of their experience.


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## puber (Aug 31, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I've got about 300 rides under my belt now - not a lot, but enough to gauge my market and the average passenger I get. Most passengers do not tip. But those that do, more often than not, are dropping 5's, 10's and 20's on me. Even the occasional $50 or $60 tip for a nice ride home after a happy night out...
> 
> So, this makes me wonder: If tipping were added to the app, would I see a whole bunch of $1 and $2 tips - and see my big tippers just adding $5 to the ride via the app? Also, those tips received through the app are reported income and taxable (not that anyone would fail to report their cash tips, of course... just sayin').
> 
> ...


Uber tip will look like their surge multipier, 1.25X, 2.5X, 5X and the highest, 10X.
You won't be complaining about it.


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## uber_sea (Jan 9, 2015)

for me I'd much rather have an in app tip. I can count on 20% of my fare consistently.

Where as in uber I can't count on who's gonna tip and how much tips.


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And I guess that's my point...
> If the 'tip-in-app' function only averages $1/trip (~$0.70 after taxes),
> then I'd rather have the cash tip because I average a LOT more than $1 per trip.
> This evening: 14 trips = $54 tips (+ 6 paid cancellations)...
> ...


Since August, 266 trips total, 3 tips that I can recall...

5am on a Saturday, male bartender, was a medium length (10-12 mile) ride, $5
11pm'ish saturday night, 2 gay male pax, going a few blocks to gay club, $5
3am Sunday morning, VERY drunk girl, 2-3 miles, "made it rain"  -- she fumbled through her purse and threw three crumpled up dollar bills on my center console. LOL

Many airport rides, where I help with luggage in and out, thank them for riding with Uber and to have a safe flight and a nice trip.. Always smiles and waves on both sides. NOT A SINGLE DOLLAR TIP.

This was all fine with me when I started this gig and was being adequately compensated. Now with the rate cuts I only drive a few hours a week, and try to work the guarantee as much as possible because I refuse to just break even or lose money/assets. Passengers need to realize that what they are paying to be driven around is not an amount that the driver can possibly be profiting on. If you get a good driver, you'd be wise to tip them because only the really terrible ones will be left otherwise.


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## BlkGeep (Dec 7, 2014)

Been a while so I'll post for new drivers, tips ain't never going to make a difference, they are never going to be a part of Uber. Your rate is what's important, its what you should be fired up about, paying me shouldn't be based on your whims or beliefs about tipping, it should be based oh the service I provide which is billed by the mile. We should be fighting to keep rates set to fifty percent of a cab. But alas, who would give a shit about either of these things, they are using different metrics and different goals to run Uber. Your worried about profit, your worried about tips, they are worried about utilization, about using you as much as they can during any given hour. When they talk with investors it's profit up, costs down, are you increasing the utilization of your equipment (us), let prices drive up utilization. I managed banking call centers, same numbers we used, sure they just repurposed the same software call centers use to monitor availability, and....drum roll...utilization! We would literally get people to volunteer to go home so those that stayed were busy the whole time, letting us utilize them more for the pay they were getting. Their goal is to get you so cheap you have to drive fifty minutes an hour to make twenty bucks, that is where prices will settle, so be prepared for lower prices everywhere, that's like thirty cents a mile. Take a picture, blkgeep guarantees rates will continue to drop until they get us working a full hour for twenty bucks, rates will go down, and sorry, no matter how much you read temporary, it doesn't say temporary, its perfectly vague, rates won't go back up ever. Later!


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

BlkGeep said:


> Been a while so I'll post for new drivers, tips ain't never going to make a difference, they are never going to be a part of Uber. Your rate is what's important, its what you should be fired up about, paying me shouldn't be based on your whims or beliefs about tipping, it should be based oh the service I provide which is billed by the mile. We should be fighting to keep rates set to fifty percent of a cab. But alas, who would give a shit about either of these things, they are using different metrics and different goals to run Uber. Your worried about profit, your worried about tips, they are worried about utilization, about using you as much as they can during any given hour. When they talk with investors it's profit up, costs down, are you increasing the utilization of your equipment (us), let prices drive up utilization. I managed banking call centers, same numbers we used, sure they just repurposed the same software call centers use to monitor availability, and....drum roll...utilization! We would literally get people to volunteer to go home so those that stayed were busy the whole time, letting us utilize them more for the pay they were getting. Their goal is to get you so cheap you have to drive fifty minutes an hour to make twenty bucks, that is where prices will settle, so be prepared for lower prices everywhere, that's like thirty cents a mile. Take a picture, blkgeep guarantees rates will continue to drop until they get us working a full hour for twenty bucks, rates will go down, and sorry, no matter how much you read temporary, it doesn't say temporary, its perfectly vague, rates won't go back up ever. Later!


I think it's pretty well established that Uber is going after maximum availability and utilization and that rates will continue to go down. That's all the more reason to want to give passengers the ability to thank the drivers for continuing to do this. What you just basically said is this is a lose-lose situation. But you also say we should be fighting to keep rates set to fifty percent of a cab. What do you think we should be doing, or do you think we should do nothing because there's nothing we can do that will change things?

EDIT: And, considering the way people take things here, lately, I just want to make it clear that there is no negative tone in what I'm asking above.. just an honest question.


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## Showa50 (Nov 30, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And I guess that's my point...
> If the 'tip-in-app' function only averages $1/trip (~$0.70 after taxes),
> then I'd rather have the cash tip because I average a LOT more than $1 per trip.
> This evening: 14 trips = $54 tips (+ 6 paid cancellations)...
> ...


Also market has an effect. Here in LA I've done 900+ Uber trips and have received less than 10 tips that I recall.

Since moving back to Lyft as a primary, about half or more tip via the app.

I choose the consistency of the Lyft rider over the Uber rider.


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## BlkGeep (Dec 7, 2014)

I already suggested killing the richest person in your area, burning boats and trains that bring foreign goods here, same with the gas stations and banks, basically time for some good old fashion class war fare. Follow me...duh.

Half the rate is fair. No rental fee each week, costs lower than cab, keeps us in our niche, which by the way is not the same as cabs, its something everyone can hang on to, it sounds good 'protesters are demanding a rate no less than half the cab rate' when the alternative sounds like whining 'tonight in the news, assholes want tips'.

Tipping is nice, got thirty five in cash last night, but it's so far away from what we should be asking for. Charge me for a haircut so I don't have to tip, charge me for waiting on me at a restaurant, again, so I don't have to tip, and I tip well, but I would rather know what something costs than have to pay you out of generosity, I'd rather see you get a fair rate for your work. Don't tip your driver, I drove you from one place to another, pay me for my service. 

Violent revolution, the hungry masses, and a fire in the masters house is set.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Amen, brother. 

I jumped on the tipping bandwagon here for a little while but really it's bogus. What we want is validation that we are doing a good job. That should be coming from decent pay and the ratings, not tips. 

If we are paid well, treated with dignity and respect then those five star ratings will be all the validation we need.


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

BlkGeep said:


> Tipping is nice, got thirty five in cash last night, but it's so far away from what we should be asking for. Charge me for a haircut so I don't have to tip, charge me for waiting on me at a restaurant, again, so I don't have to tip, and I tip well, but I would rather know what something costs than have to pay you out of generosity, I'd rather see you get a fair rate for your work. Don't tip your driver, I drove you from one place to another, pay me for my service.


In my experience, what ends up happening in situations where service people aren't being tipped, is that the quality of service stagnates. All it takes is a good tip or two at a salon, restaurant, or bar, and you'll find more time being spent on your hair, your food getting to you the minute the order is up in the kitchen, and getting served promptly when you step up to the bar. I acknowledge that with the Uber model, there is a problem in that passengers can't specifically request you for future rides, so the relationship never gets a chance to develop.

We seem to agree that rates aren't going to go up. And what's wrong with generosity? It feels good to be generous when you can, and in life, you ultimately get back what you put out.


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## Long time Nyc cab driver (Dec 12, 2014)

NightRider said:


> In my experience, what ends up happening in situations where service people aren't being tipped, is that the quality of service stagnates. All it takes is a good tip or two at a salon, restaurant, or bar, and you'll find more time being spent on your hair, your food getting to you the minute the order is up in the kitchen, and getting served promptly when you step up to the bar. I acknowledge that with the Uber model, there is a problem in that passengers can't specifically request you for future rides, so the relationship never gets a chance to develop.
> 
> We seem to agree that rates aren't going to go up. And what's wrong with generosity? It feels good to be generous when you can, and in life, you ultimately get back what you put out.


To
Insure 
Promptness


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Private clubs -and I don't mean strip clubs-do not allow tipping. This is so no one member gets left in the cold while another member has staff run to them and fall all over themselves to get a tip. This is the model Uber is trying to emulate. But at the end of the year they recommend everybody put in one month dues which is then distributed evenly to every member of staff. That is the missing part with Uber.


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## CaptainJackLA (Dec 4, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And I guess that's my point...
> If the 'tip-in-app' function only averages $1/trip (~$0.70 after taxes),
> then I'd rather have the cash tip because I average a LOT more than $1 per trip.
> This evening: 14 trips = $54 tips (+ 6 paid cancellations)...
> ...


You are driving Lux too. That may help


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## Long time Nyc cab driver (Dec 12, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Private clubs -and I don't mean strip clubs-do not allow tipping. This is so no one member gets left in the cold while another member has staff run to them and fall all over themselves to get a tip. This is the model Uber is trying to emulate. But at the end of the year they recommend everybody put in one month dues which is then distributed evenly to every member of staff. That is the missing part with Uber.


That might be the case in a Limousine company, where everyone wants to drive the big tippers, but uber, nah, that's a stretch.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

BlkGeep said:


> Been a while so I'll post for new drivers, tips ain't never going to make a difference, they are never going to be a part of Uber. Your rate is what's important, its what you should be fired up about, paying me shouldn't be based on your whims or beliefs about tipping, it should be based oh the service I provide which is billed by the mile. We should be fighting to keep rates set to fifty percent of a cab. But alas, who would give a shit about either of these things, they are using different metrics and different goals to run Uber. Your worried about profit, your worried about tips, they are worried about utilization, about using you as much as they can during any given hour. When they talk with investors it's profit up, costs down, are you increasing the utilization of your equipment (us), let prices drive up utilization. I managed banking call centers, same numbers we used, sure they just repurposed the same software call centers use to monitor availability, and....drum roll...utilization! We would literally get people to volunteer to go home so those that stayed were busy the whole time, letting us utilize them more for the pay they were getting. Their goal is to get you so cheap you have to drive fifty minutes an hour to make twenty bucks, that is where prices will settle, so be prepared for lower prices everywhere, that's like thirty cents a mile. Take a picture, blkgeep guarantees rates will continue to drop until they get us working a full hour for twenty bucks, rates will go down, and sorry, no matter how much you read temporary, it doesn't say temporary, its perfectly vague, rates won't go back up ever. Later!


I don't think 50% cab fare is sustainable in most areas, I don't the fists would be lower in most cases, either. Maybe for a very part time driver who stays within a zone, but not someone doing this full time. You may not have cab leases, but you still have operating costs, including fleet maintenance, insurance, wear and tear, (and you do not have the large fleet discounts enjoyed by the big operators)

Take Austin for example: $35 for airport to downtown. That's 17 miles, and you need to allow at least 30 minutes, then what... Hope someone near that drop off is seeking a ride soon...and everyone knows how rare that is. So cut that fare in half, and pay commission, say $14, figure 45 minutes tied up in this trip before reasonably expecting to be OTW to next pax. At best that's $18/hr, and you have not washed nor detailed your car, paid a car payment, put fuel into it, or changed the oil, etc. Dominos is paying $15/he for drivers.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> To
> Insure
> Promptness


uh, unless you're selling insurance, your T.I.P. would be T.E.P. That's what we need... a better way to TEP!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Private clubs ... do not allow tipping. This is so no one member gets left in the cold while another member has staff run to them and fall all over themselves to get a tip. This is the model Uber is trying to emulate.


You may want to think that one through again (since in Uber, 'who serves whom' is not a matter of choice). Uber is not trying to emulate any such thing. Uber wants 100% cashless transactions - and has no interest in facilitating a payment for which it does not receive a 'cut'.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

CaptainJackLA said:


> You are driving Lux too. That may help


I'm not being called by passengers for LUX service (although my car and I qualify for 'select'). I haven't received a single SELECT ping yet... all of the tips I received were 'X' pings... although it does, no doubt, help to get tips when you're driving a 'prestige' car.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

NightRider said:


> What do you think we should be doing, or do you think we should do nothing because there's nothing we can do that will change things?


I think that basically there isn't anything we can do other than communicate with the CSRs who are/were all drivers - they get it... and collectively they provide feedback up the food chain.


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