# Uber has to change pay structure for smaller cites



## David Miner (Mar 29, 2016)

*Uber needs to change how they pay drivers in Kalamazoo, MI (which relates directly to other small cities, also). Fares can go up since they are 50% less than a taxi and Uber can share it's wealth with it's partners. (Are we, the drivers, really treated like partners at Uber? My partners never treated me this poorly.)
Many requests in small cities, are 10 to 20 minutes away from my last rider drop-off or current location, if waiting for a Rider. Drivers are not paid for the mileage or time to get to our next Rider (understandable in a large city - requests are typically 1 to 5 minutes away .. less than a mile). So, I can only serve 3 or 4 fares an hour. I have to drive a minimum of 20 miles in a given hour that I am not being paid for. I am spending $10.80 just in car expense for that hour. We, as drivers, should be making at least $15.00/hour and that means my earnings from Uber need to be $25.00/hour. I'm not making anything close to that. On the best day that I have had in the last 3 months I made $12.24 an hour from Uber. Again that $12.24 does not include subtracting mileage expense.
In the last 3 months, I have had many days where my income was negative. For example:

-$8.50 per hour, -$7.26 per hour, -$5.03 per hour and -$4.34 per hour are just 4 of several days in the negative.If I am losing this much money, why would I even keep driving for Uber this long? Good question! I have had the mission to keep intoxicated individuals off the road and this has been the reason I have hung in there. Plus, I had heard that Uber was a great company and have had the confidence and expectation that Uber would do the right thing. After all, without your drivers, you have no income.Treating your drivers with more respect and value is not an option. 
Uber 
WILL fail in smaller markets if you don't.I have very valuable feedback for Uber. Not only do I have decades of business experience, I personally know that Uber drivers are leaving the Kalamazoo area. Some have stopped driving and some drive in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We are having a gathering of Uber drivers soon and I would like to give them some positive news.We need to get paid for the mileage and time from request to next Rider. Is there any consideration at Uber to make this change?
*** Uber receives about 37% on each fare. What are you doing with that? ****


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## PHXTE (Jun 23, 2015)

What kind of car are you driving that your *actual expense* is 54 cents/mile?

(The IRS mileage rate isn't what your actual expenses are)


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## David Miner (Mar 29, 2016)

Really? Do you think the IRS is going to give away money?

Insurance, repairs, gas, tires, wear and tear on the car, monthly payment, ... if you do the math, you will find that it is at least $0.54 a mile. Besides, when a taxi ride that cost $13.60 is only $5.50 with Uber doesn't it make sense that Uber could raise the fare to 8 or $9 and still have a major savings? All of the drivers I talked to would much rather pay a dollar or two more and have drivers available. They wait too long for a driver because too many drivers are dropping out.

I think it is pretty clear by all the articles on this forum, hundreds of sites online, in newspaper, Etc. Uber is not paying their drivers enough.​


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## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

David Miner said:


> Really? Do you think the IRS is going to give away money?
> 
> Insurance, repairs, gas, tires, wear and tear on the car, monthly payment, ... if you do the math, you will find that it is at least $0.54 a mile. Besides, when a taxi ride that cost $13.60 is only $5.50 with Uber doesn't it make sense that Uber could raise the fare to 8 or $9 and still have a major savings? All of the drivers I talked to would much rather pay a dollar or two more and have drivers available. They wait too long for a driver because too many drivers are dropping out.
> 
> I think it is pretty clear by all the articles on this forum, hundreds of sites online, in newspaper, Etc. Uber is not paying their drivers enough.​


Your point about drivers needing to be paid more in cities like yours is fine. My area is a lot like that.

But you should just drop this 54 cents nonsense or no one will see the message about driver pay.


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## uber50702 (Apr 25, 2016)

I live in Iowa and can say it's not the way Uber intended it to be. I drove thirty miles outside my city a couple weeks ago to take a pax home. Of course in that small town of the drop off there was not gonna be any ride request so my pay was 13.53 for about an hour and ten minutes of driving I'm which half was just dead miles returning home. Gas probably ate up all of that alone.


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## Lando74 (Nov 23, 2014)

uber50702 said:


> I live in Iowa and can say it's not the way Uber intended it to be. I drove thirty miles outside my city a couple weeks ago to take a pax home. Of course in that small town of the drop off there was not gonna be any ride request so my pay was 13.53 for about an hour and ten minutes of driving I'm which half was just dead miles returning home. Gas probably ate up all of that alone.


That's why I refuse to work the Des Moines airport anymore. I swear ever since the rate cut every airport pickup has been to Ames, Newton, Grinnell, etc. driving an hour out of town with no hope for a return fare is not worth it at low rates. And since the airport never surges...


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## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

Undermensch said:


> Your point about drivers needing to be paid more in cities like yours is fine. My area is a lot like that.
> 
> But you should just drop this 54 cents nonsense or no one will see the message about driver pay.


Because you're obviously smarter than the government.....It's not like they haven't used those rates for years and year right?


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## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

AintWorthIt said:


> Because you're obviously smarter than the government.....It's not like they haven't used those rates for years and year right?


And here it goes...

It's not about my smarts.

It's about being able to articulate what that rate is for and being able to count your own expenses, neither of which you will do, so we aren't arguing about. But I'll just state for the record that your understanding is not correct.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

I for one would be willing to accept a lower rate per mile if it included deadhead miles to the passenger pickup. 

This would also result in better service for the riders, being drivers would be willing to drive 20 minutes to pick them up. It would also result in fewer drivers saturating the big cities and working the suburban and rural areas, thus expanding the market.


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## David Miner (Mar 29, 2016)

Dear Undermensch, 

Not sure why you continue to argue about the $0.54 per mile. It is the government standard but, the real question is do drivers need to get paid more in smaller markets? I know that I am losing money and have only stuck in there because of a mission to get intoxicated individuals off the road and the hope that some changes will be made. I am still hoping that there is power in numbers. If we all band together, maybe we'll make a difference.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

David Miner said:


> Really? Do you think the IRS is going to give away money?
> 
> Insurance, repairs, gas, tires, wear and tear on the car, monthly payment, ... if you do the math, you will find that it is at least $0.54 a mile. Besides, when a taxi ride that cost $13.60 is only $5.50 with Uber doesn't it make sense that Uber could raise the fare to 8 or $9 and still have a major savings? All of the drivers I talked to would much rather pay a dollar or two more and have drivers available. They wait too long for a driver because too many drivers are dropping out.
> 
> I think it is pretty clear by all the articles on this forum, hundreds of sites online, in newspaper, Etc. Uber is not paying their drivers enough.​


LOL. Clue one: Uber drivers are masters of denial. They all think thir cars run on uicorn farts mixed with fairy dust. They don't even pay for gas!


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

uber50702 said:


> I live in Iowa and can say it's not the way Uber intended it to be. I drove thirty miles outside my city a couple weeks ago to take a pax home. Of course in that small town of the drop off there was not gonna be any ride request so my pay was 13.53 for about an hour and ten minutes of driving I'm which half was just dead miles returning home. Gas probably ate up all of that alone.


Why would anyone drive for those rates? At such rates, it's even more imperative to reject money-losing rides.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

uber50702 said:


> I live in Iowa and can say it's not the way Uber intended it to be. I drove thirty miles outside my city a couple weeks ago to take a pax home. Of course in that small town of the drop off there was not gonna be any ride request so my pay was 13.53 for about an hour and ten minutes of driving I'm which half was just dead miles returning home. Gas probably ate up all of that alone.


It is exactly the way uber intended. They made money. You don't matter.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> It is exactly the way uber intended. They made money. You don't matter.


No truer words ever spoken. It's like Uber drivers willingly give themzelves over to Stockholm Syndrome.


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## Johndito (May 1, 2016)

PHXTE said:


> What kind of car are you driving that your *actual expense* is 54 cents/mile?
> 
> (The IRS mileage rate isn't what your actual expenses are)


Really!?!? $10.oo per hour to operate your car? You need a better/less-expensive car friend. Sounds a little high to me.


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## David Miner (Mar 29, 2016)

Just because it sounds high to you, doesn't mean that you're right. The fact is I drive 20 to 30 miles in an hour of driving for Uber, easily. Yes, that is $10 to $15 in expenses. Do the math. The government doesn't give away deductions. If it is really $7 to $12 for my expenses, am I now making lots of money?


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## PHXTE (Jun 23, 2015)

Undermensch said:


> And here it goes...
> 
> It's not about my smarts.
> 
> It's about being able to articulate what that rate is for and being able to count your own expenses, neither of which you will do, so we aren't arguing about. But I'll just state for the record that your understanding is not correct.


I'd like to e-shake your hand for being one of the few people here that understands the difference between the _actual expenses_ you incur and some arbitrary number established by the IRS for reimbursement and tax write off purposes. I've given up trying to explain it to these people, they just don't get it and they're too ignorant to even realize they're ignorant in the first place. Do't waste your breath.

And FWIW, my 2014 Ford Focus doesn't run anywhere near 54 cents/mile. I would suspect most peoples' vehicles don't either.


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## PHXTE (Jun 23, 2015)

David Miner said:


> Just because it sounds high to you, doesn't mean that you're right. The fact is I drive 20 to 30 miles in an hour of driving for Uber, easily. Yes, that is $10 to $15 in expenses. Do the math. The government doesn't give away deductions. If it is really $7 to $12 for my expenses, am I now making lots of money?


If you're such the mathematical wizard that you think you are here, then why are you still driving for Uber anyway?

The standard mileage rate has nothing to do with your actual expenses!


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

I vote for option #3: Delete the app.


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## ChattaBilly (Jan 10, 2016)

Why are you people picking apart David Miner? He's right! In small towns like Chattanooga, we lose money when we are offered riders 10-11 minutes away. More than likely, you drive ten minutes to give them a 4 minute ride. It should be required that their destination is put in, and that we can SEE it before we accept it. I made $15 an a non surge, hour long round trip last night to drop a resident at his house on Signal Mountain. After I got back down the mountain, I got a ping to pick up a rider 4 minutes away. When I got to him I laughed and told him I would be glad to go anywhere but Signal Mountain. He and his 3 friends were headed to, yes, Signal Mountain. He let me cancel, and I went back downtown. This is a situation that probably rarely occurs in major metropolitan areas, but happens to us small town guys regularly. Those fares are money losers. I only turn on my app when I drive downtown, hoping to stay downtown. Dead heading kills any profit. I drove 143 miles yesterday, had one surge, and grossed $70. Wowie. After our pay was cut in half in January, a guy needs to be creative in order to keep some of his fares. Oh yeah. I drove for almost 4 hours last night.


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## Johndito (May 1, 2016)

Uber is what it is...you're either in or you're Out. Get used to it. Obviously HQ is trying to manage a new North American (U.S.) situation that's got beyond their control. It will work out...give it some time. JG


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## Angry Hippo (Apr 27, 2016)

I'd be shocked to find that a 2014 focus isn't incurring very close to 55 cents a mile when depreciation, repairs and gas are factored.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

Uber is very bad for drivers in low-density areas. You will likely need to find a real job and to hell with Uber.


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