# A simple reminder for the nay-sayers



## PickEmUp (Jul 19, 2017)

Deleted


----------



## LEAFdriver (Dec 28, 2014)

I was happy to see that alert this morning on the Driver App. 

But, my question is: are they also alerting the PAX? 

Doesn't seem like it. I opened the PAX app this morning and no 'updates' there!


----------



## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

This is a good start, but Lyft needs to do three things to show that they are serious about this issue...
1. Send this notification to all pax and keep sending it periodically as a reminder 
2. Add these options on the cancellation drop down menu, so I don't have to call support each time
3. Agree to pay the driver a cancellation fee when selecting either of these cancellation options


----------



## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

PickEmUp said:


> Agreed. That would let us cancel and get paid without having to wait five minutes and cancel as a no show.


We'd have to show proof of their age.


----------



## TomBradysFanClub (May 8, 2017)

Did she say she was 17? How did her age come up? I violates company policy all the time at the oil company I work for. Myself I would have gave her a ride. Never would have asked for her age.


----------



## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

Sacto Burbs said:


> We'd have to show proof of their age.


We could assert that they refused to show proof of age. The onus is on us to gate keep, but the burden of proof is on the pax. Dash cams help with this, in the event of a dispute.


----------



## Quest09 (Dec 7, 2017)

I don't know I've not really thought about the age thing there are so many times I've taken kids to and from school events or returned kids from one parent to another parent I'm in the service business and this is a necessary service people need just because there are creeps out there and bad things have happened I guess you know it's an illegal thing that nobody wants to take responsibility for don't know.


----------



## LEAFdriver (Dec 28, 2014)

PickEmUp said:


> I had a 17 year old cancel her scheduled ride because I wouldn't drive her. *The $10.00 cancel fee was more than I would have made on her ride*. I bet she wasn't happy to discover her account was deactivated while she was at work.


This is MY criteria for determining if I will even _ASK_ their age.

I'm always ready if I think there is a good chance that my pax will be under 18.

As soon as I arrive, I click to see their destination.....if it is a $5 or less fare _*AND*_ they look young.....I ask their age. Not 18? Cancel. Get $5 fee.

IF it looks to be at least a $10 fare_ AND_ they look like they_ COULD be 18._...I take them. No questions asked.

But..._.if they definitely do not look anywhere NEAR 18._...i.e. 12-14 yr olds.....then I still cancel, even if the fare is over $10!
_(that is after they verify to me that they are not 18) _Occasionally, you will truly get an 18 yr old who looks 14. So this is the only time I would contemplate asking for ID.....though I have never had to do it yet. 

HTH


----------



## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

PickEmUp said:


> Just ASK them. I have only had one pax I thought was lying. I asked her for ID. She had no ID which is unusual for an 18 year old in the burbs.


I prefer to have a digital paper trail, so I'm considering doing this-- Once I accept a ping, I'll scroll through the navigation banner on Google Maps to see if the pick up spot is a school. If it is, I'll send the following text (I'll use a keyboard shortcut so I don't have to type it out each time):

"Hi. This is your Lyft driver. I see that I'm picking you up at a school. As you know, Lyft prohibits me from picking up anyone under 18 without an adult accompanying them. They can and will fire me if I violate this policy. Be advised that I will ask for a state issued ID which proves that you are over 18 years old. If you cannot provide the required ID, I will not be able to provide you with transportation. If you are under 18 years of age and are not accompanied by an adult, please cancel now."

I only drive afternoons and weekdays, so I figure that this will take care of any school to home rides, which is 90% of my UA problem rides. By the time I send the text and the pax reads it and cancels, two minutes will have passed and I can get paid without driving very far. I can report the ride and attach a screen shot of the text.

Thoughts from the peanut gallery? Too much? I'm considering doing one for parents with children and no car seats, too.


----------



## LEAFdriver (Dec 28, 2014)

dctcmn said:


> I only drive afternoons and weekdays, so I figure that this will take care of any school to home rides, which is 90% of my UA problem rides. By the time I send the text and the pax reads it and cancels, two minutes will have passed and I can get paid without driving very far.* I can report the ride and attach a screen shot of the text. *
> 
> Thoughts from the peanut gallery? Too much? I'm considering doing one for parents with children and no car seats, too.


I guess as long as you DO report to Lyft that your pax canceled AFTER you told them you will verify age. Otherwise, Lyft will deactivate you for too many passenger cancels AFTER YOU have texted or called them.



PickEmUp said:


> If money is a factor that outweighs age, your decision is not based on sound principles.


The way I see it....it should NOT be the DRIVER'S responsibility to ID pax. This burden should be on LYFT. Again, I am using sound principles....my EYES. I will NOT take OBVIOUS under 18 yr old pax no matter the fare. But using sound judgement, I will determine if I NEED to ask* EVERY* pax that LOOKS 18 . Usually, by either their p/u or destination address....that will be another clue as to whether they are 18 or not.


----------



## LEAFdriver (Dec 28, 2014)

PickEmUp said:


> Lyft has met their legal burden by prohibiting it in their terms of service, which you agreed to. Your eyes are not a principle, they are a tool. What you choose to interpret from the visual information will either help you or hurt you. When your eyes see dollar signs and that is your motivating principle, you are putting yourself at risk unnecessarily. If something happens that prompts civil or legal issues, those issues will be your burden because Lyft has legally absolved themselves of responsibility. Lyft will legally disown you and they will not bear responsibility for any consequences brought on by your own actions.


OK. I don't get it. Are you telling us you actually ID* every pax that looks 18*? I can't imagine having to do that every time I pick up someone who looks AROUND 18.....since that is about 60% or more of my pax. My rating will plummet because most of those WILL actually be 18 or over and they will take it out on me when they rate me.

So unless you only pick up senior citizens all the time.....this, in my area at least, is VERY impractical.

But you do what works for you.


----------



## LEAFdriver (Dec 28, 2014)

PickEmUp said:


> As I stated earlier in this thread: "Just ASK them. I have only had one pax I thought was lying. I asked her for ID. She had no ID which is unusual for an 18 year old in the burbs."
> 
> Kids that age are not adept at lying when unexpectedly put on the spot. They usually give their age, even if underage. Occasionally, I follow up with "what year were you born." If they start doing math in their head, that would be a sure sign they are lying.
> 
> It amazes me the lengths drivers will go to in order to justify doing something that is not in their own best interest.


Well....your theory MAY work the *FIRST* time a rideshare driver asks them their age and they get denied for being under 18. But kids learn QUICKLY all they have to do_ NEXT TIME_....is to LIE. 

So again....unless you are asking for ID_ every time_ someone SAYS they are 18...then you _ALSO_ are relying on your OWN judgement.


----------



## LEAFdriver (Dec 28, 2014)

PickEmUp said:


> With me, there is no next time. I report each rider to Uber or Lyft for deactivation.


Yes....you are correct. _ You_ won't get_ THAT one_ again who admitted they were under 18 AND that was reported. It STILL does NOT guarantee you will not get an under 18 yr old pax that lies.....UNLESS, you ask for ID EVERY TIME.


----------



## William Fenton (Jan 1, 2018)

In CA it is against the law for me to provide a ride to an unaccompanied minor (under 18). If I violate this law I am the one in trouble, not the rider. 
It is illegal to have alcohol in an open container in the car. Again if someone brings a drink into my car I am the one in trouble, not the rider.
If someone gets into my car car with a cup I ask what is in the cup. Someone gets in my car and there is a chance they are not 18, I ask and verify. No difference in my book, I have to protect myself first.


----------



## Friendly Jack (Nov 17, 2015)

Not wanting to take any chances, I had what looked to be a 75 year old woman say "Thank you, sweety!" and tell me that she was 17 when I asked her age. She looked really puzzled when I kicked her out to the curb and drove away!


----------



## Gonzo Donny (Jan 28, 2018)

Quest09 said:


> I don't know I've not really thought about the age thing there are so many times I've taken kids to and from school events or returned kids from one parent to another parent I'm in the service business and this is a necessary service people need just because there are creeps out there and bad things have happened I guess you know it's an illegal thing that nobody wants to take responsibility for don't know.


This goes back to a question I posted in another thread. There are absolutely legitimate reasons why children need rides and their parents are not able to do it (like people in my situation). There is actually a service in my area that does nothing BUT transport children to/from school, events, and other activities. I have been kicking around the idea of starting up my own version of that business and thought I could do Uber/Lyft in between scheduled jobs. I can understand people's concerns over liability and what not, but I'm a bit surprised that this is a blanket ban on the part of the companies. For my business, if I ever get it started, I plan on having dash cams in the car to film the passenger area during transport (I used to be a cop and we did this all the time), etc.


----------



## RideShareJUNKIE (Jun 23, 2017)

These are easy rides unless the pax is in high school. If its a high school, i dont do the ride just because of the busy pickup and being at an age of not giving a F about things/people. 

Most ridiculous underage pax was a UBER from a Montessori school going home to affluent/gated community. A brother and sister 8 and 10 years old. 
The funny thing is the boy just hopped in, the girl actually walked to the rear of the vehicle and checked the license plate before enter the vehicle. I gave her kudos on doing that extra step. I still find it odd that parents are ok with this just 1 gen later, lol. I feel bad for the kids, i have no sympathy for the parents.

Kids are much better pax than drunk, sweaty, slurring and smelling like food/alcohol/throw up adults. i understand the risks involved though. YUCK. al

If im going to get reported for a bogus allegation its irrelevant if its a kid, teenager, or adult. Bullshit is still bullshit regardless of package size. w/e its all bad no matter how you slice it.


----------



## Big Wig !!! (Sep 16, 2016)

LEAFdriver said:


> I was happy to see that alert this morning on the Driver App.
> 
> But, my question is: are they also alerting the PAX?
> 
> Doesn't seem like it. I opened the PAX app this morning and no 'updates' there!


Lyft/Uber doesn't even tell their PAX that 4* is a failure.


----------



## luvgurl22 (Jul 5, 2016)

LEAFdriver said:


> I was happy to see that alert this morning on the Driver App.
> 
> But, my question is: are they also alerting the PAX?
> 
> Doesn't seem like it. I opened the PAX app this morning and no 'updates' there!


Nope.They love to make us the "bearers of bad news" , when it comes to educating pax on policies & laws.


----------



## Tarrnation (Apr 23, 2016)

Quest09 said:


> I don't know I've not really thought about the age thing there are so many times I've taken kids to and from school events or returned kids from one parent to another parent I'm in the service business and this is a necessary service people need just because there are creeps out there and bad things have happened I guess you know it's an illegal thing that nobody wants to take responsibility for don't know.


That's called an admission of guilt right there. We're not talking about laws here (they vary from state to state), we're talking about company policy. You agreed to the policy when you signed up so ignorance of the policy is not a valid defense.

If I were you, I'd remove this post before you wind up being deactivated over it and stop giving rides to minors immediately.


----------



## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

dctcmn said:


> I prefer to have a digital paper trail, so I'm considering doing this-- Once I accept a ping, I'll scroll through the navigation banner on Google Maps to see if the pick up spot is a school. If it is, I'll send the following text (I'll use a keyboard shortcut so I don't have to type it out each time):
> 
> "Hi. This is your Lyft driver. I see that I'm picking you up at a school. As you know, Lyft prohibits me from picking up anyone under 18 without an adult accompanying them. They can and will fire me if I violate this policy. Be advised that I will ask for a state issued ID which proves that you are over 18 years old. If you cannot provide the required ID, I will not be able to provide you with transportation. If you are under 18 years of age and are not accompanied by an adult, please cancel now."
> 
> ...


Cancel? Go. Wait 5. Collect $5.


----------



## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Cancel? Go. Wait 5. Collect $5.


The pax are cancelling in this scenario, not me.

If they don't cancel, I will go, report them while I'm waiting then collect my $5. However, if I can get them to cancel while I'm just starting in route, isn't that better for me financially, because I haven't wasted the dead miles, drive time and wait time?

The way I see it is that $5 after ~2 wasted minutes and ~1 wasted mile (my way, getting them to cancel) is better than $5 after ~8 wasted minutes and ~3 wasted miles driving to the pax, then waiting 5 minutes for the 'no-show' clock to run down (your way).


----------



## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

Quest09 said:


> I don't know I've not really thought about the age thing there are so many times I've taken kids to and from school events or returned kids from one parent to another parent I'm in the service business and this is a necessary service people need just because there are creeps out there and bad things have happened I guess you know it's an illegal thing that nobody wants to take responsibility for don't know.


Do you really want to be the last person to see a missing child? The Unaccompanied Minor policy for U/L is there for a reason.


----------



## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

Ziggy said:


> Do you really want to be the last person to see a missing child? The Unaccompanied Minor policy for U/L is there for a reason.


I agree with your sentiment, but anyone can go missing. A 2 channel dash cam is your best defense (in states that allow them). To me, the more immediate issue is that middle/high schoolers have a greater propensity to make false claims against an adult and completely **** their life up, sometimes for nothing more than attention.

Their brains aren't developed and their bad actions don't have the same consequences as an adult. I don't want to be alone with anyone who's not on the same legal playing field as me.


----------



## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

dctcmn said:


> I agree with your sentiment, but anyone can go missing. A 2 channel dash cam is your best defense (in states that allow them). To me, the more immediate issue is that middle/high schoolers have a greater propensity to make false claims against an adult and completely &%[email protected]!* their life up, sometimes for nothing more than attention.
> 
> Their brains aren't developed and their bad actions don't have the same consequences as an adult. I don't want to be alone with anyone who's not on the same legal playing field as me.


I totally agree with your sentiment - I lost track of how many parents cussed me out because I refused to pick up the kid that they were too lazy or busy to pick up.


----------



## William Fenton (Jan 1, 2018)

Ask yourself how you are going to defend yourself when that 14 or 16 year old says you did something to them. Your dash cam will be of little help. The only thing worse than driving a teen age female unaccompanied is driving two under age females.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

What if it's a 17 year old with a service animal?

What a phucking nightmare.


----------



## RideShareJUNKIE (Jun 23, 2017)

I had 2 cheerleaders 16 or 17 about a year ago. At that time the thought didnt really cross my mind. Lol. I still go case by case.

It does suck if the kid would otherwise have to walk a long distance sometimes, (and some just a short distance), but thinking of all the variable elements that you cross paths with everyday for 20-30min each way on a walk to and from school, at such a vulnerable age. Its a tragedy, but the law is there for a reason.


----------



## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

RideShareJUNKIE said:


> It does suck if the kid would otherwise have to walk a long distance sometimes, (and some just a short distance), but thinking of all the variable elements that you cross paths with everyday for 20-30min each way on a walk to and from school, at such a vulnerable age. Its a tragedy, but the law is there for a reason.


The kids will be fine without a ride from you, after all, kids have been getting rides home from school or where ever for decades either with a family member, friend, cab or bus. Remember Uber & Lyft have been around for less than 6 years, their parents will figure it out without Uber & Lyft. In the rare case, a parent asks me "how their kid is supposed to get where ever" - I just tell them "call a taxi, a friend or family".

I hate like hell giving up a $50+ Lux ride but would hate it more if anything happened with a UM (unaccompanied minor) in my car. There are guys/gals I know who take kids all the time but the risk far outweighs the reward for me.

BTW when I was a LEO and we transported a UM, we had to radio dispatch give them the destination and starting & ending mileage CYA. Many cab drivers I know are reluctant to take minors too.


----------



## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

William Fenton said:


> Ask yourself how you are going to defend yourself when that 14 or 16 year old says you did something to them. Your dash cam will be of little help. The only thing worse than driving a teen age female unaccompanied is driving two under age females.


How is a dash cam going to be of little help? Sure, it won't help with Uber or Lyft, but that's the least of your worries at that point.


----------



## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

In OC there used to be quite a lot of elementary schoolers from million dollar homes whose parents instructed them to use select


----------



## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Gonzo Donny said:


> There is actually a service in my area that does nothing BUT transport children to/from school, events, and other activities. .


The companies you speak of. They are called TAXIs



RideShareJUNKIE said:


> It does suck if the kid would otherwise have to walk a long distance sometimes, (and some just a short distance),


The kid can call a taxi.



Gonzo Donny said:


> There are absolutely legitimate reasons why children need rides


Please list all the "legitimate" circumstances where responsibility for a kid is offloaded by their parent or guardian onto a stranger - to be transported somewhere alone.

*A reason that did not exist before Before Uber/Lyft started ...*


----------



## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

I'm not a cop. I ask if they're 18 and add that I can't take them if they're not 18. Had some great paying fares paid by those 18 year olds.


----------



## Leo1983 (Jul 3, 2017)

You guys need to chill. Give the ride take your $2 rate one star and done. If you’re that anal simply write ( notify customer of age policy) in the comments section. 
I love how you guys take Lyft and uber seriously as if it’s a real job. Lol. 
If you’re a us citizen and you do rideshare, there is something mentally wrong with you.


----------



## William Fenton (Jan 1, 2018)

I am a us citizen and there is nothing wrong with me mentally (I tested myself). This is something I do to get out of the house in retirement. I take driving underage kids seriously, the dangers are too great, especially with teen aged females. This is a simple thing to avoid, just don't drive near high schools in the afternoon and your chances of getting an underage minor are greatly reduced.


----------



## FormerTaxiDriver (Oct 24, 2017)

Everyone can download Lyft rider app!



Leo1983 said:


> You guys need to chill. Give the ride take your $2 rate one star and done. If you're that anal simply write ( notify customer of age policy) in the comments section.
> I love how you guys take Lyft and uber seriously as if it's a real job. Lol.
> If you're a us citizen and you do rideshare, there is something mentally wrong with you.


I perceive that you like anal.


----------



## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

PickEmUp said:


> In logic, *reductio ad absurdum* (Latin for "reduction to absurdity"; or *argumentum ad absurdum*, "argument to absurdity") is a form of argument which attempts either to disprove a statement by showing it inevitably leads to a ridiculous, absurd, or impractical conclusion, or to prove one by showing that if it were not true, the result would be absurd or impossible.


I'm also not someone who likes to grandstand.


----------



## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

PickEmUp said:


> You should probably look up the definition of grandstanding.


*You should probably work on reading comprehension.* Now go back, read the post again & try to figure out why you obviously didn't know what "grandstand" means.

grand·stand
ˈɡran(d)ˌstand/
_verb_
derogatory
gerund or present participle: *grandstanding*

seek to attract applause or favorable attention from spectators or the media.


----------



## Leo1983 (Jul 3, 2017)

PickEmUp said:


> You really don't get it. Since your profile says you are in L.A. you should know that it is ILLEGAL there. Aside from the legality, what I take seriously is potential legal and civil liability. You should too, if you apply a little common sense and realize none of that is worth three bucks.


Then kick them out collect your money and move on Jesus.



FormerTaxiDriver said:


> Everyone can download Lyft rider app!
> 
> I perceive that you like anal.


Only if you buy me dinner first.


----------



## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

PickEmUp said:


> Your attempt at deflection is transparent.
> 
> *deflection noun [ C or U ] *
> UK /dɪˈflek.ʃən/US /dɪˈflek.ʃən/
> change of direction, or the actof preventing something being directed at you:


Dude, just stop it. You've gone from being silly to completely moronic.


----------



## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

PickEmUp said:


> A good indication that you have lost an argument is when you resort to name calling. Congratulations, you have officially lost!


You were arguing with yourself. I was enjoying the comedy show.


----------



## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

PickEmUp said:


> aaaaannnnnd denial.


Annnnnnd more comedy.


----------

