# Insurance- how to become legit



## TheHottness (Oct 25, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I started to look into what I would need to do if I wanted to be fully legit on the street. I was wondering of anyone had any experience with this or has done research. So far I priced what it would cost to get the car to have "limo" plates, but have not priced of seen how much insurance is yet. Any info would be awesome!

Also what are all your views on the current status quo? Do you drive with just personal insurance and hope nothing happens? Anyone have any experiences with getting into an accident while ubering in this great state? Just looking for some feed back!


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

A. Call your personal auto insurance company anonymously to find out for a fact that this kind of activity is NOT covered and VOIDs your personal auto insurance. This needs to be verified first by any driver. CALL and find out.

B. You already heard from me to call a local commercial insurance agent.

Any twit with half a brain can do the exercise above.


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## TheHottness (Oct 25, 2014)

Thanks dude, no need for the twit comment... I'm just looking too see if any NJ drivers have done this yet. Also I beleive in NJ to get commercial insurance you need commercial plates from the state. That's why I asked in this forum.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

TheHottness said:


> Thanks dude, no need for the twit comment... I'm just looking too see if any NJ drivers have done this yet. Also I beleive in NJ to get commercial insurance you need commercial plates from the state. That's why I asked in this forum.


Not sayin yer a twit. Just said any twit can take the simple steps without any driver advice. Those steps should be taken first by anyone driving. Most commercial insurance companies don't care about the license end but that may not be the case there. I doubt it though. Commercial rules for insurance are typically set up on a national scale, BUT as stated prior, the people you should be asking are commercial insurance agents. They can walk you through the steps in a 2-3 days.

I doubt there is are too many UberX drivers who have even bothered to go through the paces. But we'll see from this thread huh?


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

TheHottness said:


> Also what are all your views on the current status quo? Do you drive with just personal insurance and hope nothing happens? Anyone have any experiences with getting into an accident while ubering in this great state? Just looking for some feed back!


You're fine as-is. Read the policy. As a named operator, Uber's insurance is primary while on a trip, or en route to pick up a passenger. The only exception is if you have your own commercial policy, in which case Uber's becomes excess. Doesn't make sense to buy commercial insurance, now does it?

Driving for Uber will have minimal, if any, impact on your personal policy. Worst case scenario, if an underwriter finds out, they'll non-renew the policy, which your next insurer will probably not even know. All they'd know is the accident, if you had one.

Driving for Uber will not impact your ability to make a claim for a personal auto accident, as the only potential exclusion (being used as a livery vehicle or transporting people or goods for a fee, an exclusion that may not even apply in the first place) wouldn't be applicable to a loss that occurs on your own time. The insurance company can't void your policy or rescind coverage if the basis for that recission is something they wouldn't have covered anyway.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> You're fine as-is. Read the policy. As a named operator, Uber's insurance is primary while on a trip, or en route to pick up a passenger. The only exception is if you have your own commercial policy, in which case Uber's becomes excess. Doesn't make sense to buy commercial insurance, now does it?
> 
> Driving for Uber will have minimal, if any, impact on your personal policy. Worst case scenario, if an underwriter finds out, they'll non-renew the policy, which your next insurer will probably not even know. All they'd know is the accident, if you had one.
> 
> Driving for Uber will not impact your ability to make a claim for a personal auto accident, as the only potential exclusion (being used as a livery vehicle or transporting people or goods for a fee, an exclusion that may not even apply in the first place) wouldn't be applicable to a loss that occurs on your own time. The insurance company can't void your policy or rescind coverage if the basis for that recission is something they wouldn't have covered anyway.


Ut oh... let's wait for the comment train from the usual suspects. You do know confusing people with facts tends to get them very upset! lol


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## TheHottness (Oct 25, 2014)

Hey Sean thanks for sharing! There's so many different things out there I was getting confused... Much appreciated


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## Droosk (Sep 1, 2014)

To reiterate what Sean said, there is established case law that protects you. Yes, an insurance company MAY drop you if they discover you drive for Uber, but these occasions have been very few and far between. Your insurance can drop you for ANY reason. Thankfully, they are slowly coming around to the facts of ride sharing. They have no liability while the app is on, Uber does.

Easiest way to not have a problem? Don't drive like an idiot. I'm not saying you do, as I obviously don't know you, but that is the #1 thing I've learned while Ubering. 80% or more of the drivers on the roads are complete morons and have no business operating motor vehicles. As long as you obey the rules of the road, don't speed, don't tailgate, don't run lights, check your mirrors, signal BEFORE you start to change lanes, etc etc etc, you will never have an at fault accident, and therefore, will never have to deal with liability.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Droosk said:


> To reiterate what Sean said, there is established case law that protects you. Yes, an insurance company MAY drop you if they discover you drive for Uber, but these occasions have been very few and far between. Your insurance can drop you for ANY reason. Thankfully, they are slowly coming around to the facts of ride sharing. They have no liability while the app is on, Uber does.
> 
> Easiest way to not have a problem? Don't drive like an idiot. I'm not saying you do, as I obviously don't know you, but that is the #1 thing I've learned while Ubering. 80% or more of the drivers on the roads are complete morons and have no business operating motor vehicles. As long as you obey the rules of the road, don't speed, don't tailgate, don't run lights, check your mirrors, signal BEFORE you start to change lanes, etc etc etc, you will never have an at fault accident, and therefore, will never have to deal with liability.


There's a whole lot of truth with that. Far too many people drive with the attitude of "meh, who cares, it's insured, and I'm indestructible anyway."


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> You're fine as-is. Read the policy. As a named operator, Uber's insurance is primary while on a trip, or en route to pick up a passenger. The only exception is if you have your own commercial policy, in which case Uber's becomes excess. Doesn't make sense to buy commercial insurance, now does it?
> 
> Driving for Uber will have minimal, if any, impact on your personal policy. Worst case scenario, if an underwriter finds out, they'll non-renew the policy, which your next insurer will probably not even know. All they'd know is the accident, if you had one.
> 
> Driving for Uber will not impact your ability to make a claim for a personal auto accident, as the only potential exclusion (being used as a livery vehicle or transporting people or goods for a fee, an exclusion that may not even apply in the first place) wouldn't be applicable to a loss that occurs on your own time. The insurance company can't void your policy or rescind coverage if the basis for that recission is something they wouldn't have covered anyway.


Omg why are you LYING? The livery exclusion absolutely applies to Uberx drivers! Jesus, On second thought, I'm not going to go into any further detail. You are a liar. To TheHottness: I agree with the advice to review your policy and discuss with your provider, get confirmation in writing. What you do is none of my business, because I doubt that I share insurance companies with you. But I can passionately assure you that you are being misled on this forum. When you drop a passenger off and pull away from the point of drop off, you are going to be considered to be commercially liable. I challenge ALL of the b.s.'ers in this thread to prove otherwise. Bring it in writing. I have had this discussion all the way to the state level. The hotel, the airport, the coliseums and convention centers, the tracks and parks:,all of them, along with your personal insurance providers, will tell you you are commercially active. Your personal policy, unless it has a specific rider stating otherwise, will most assuredly claim you are not covered. Therefore, you are driving uninsured during that phase because Uber's insurance at that point is a contingent secondary plan. Why do you think they ask you for your personal insurance certificate?

Hottness asked a serious question, you should show her or him some respect and advise him or her to talk to their insurance company. Quit telling drivers there is no risk. Well, unless you're hopeful to reduce the number of drivers


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## Droosk (Sep 1, 2014)

Tx Rides, sorry man, but you're wrong. This has been handled in the courts already, and Sean has already provided a dozen cases where drivers were operating under a commercial activity that law found insurance companies could not exclude. This is established case law. The key point is that Uber drivers are not "actively engaged" in seeking for hire activity. Unlike cabs, Uber drivers don't need to troll street corners looking for someone to flag them down. As for why they ask for your personal insurance info, its because personal insurance is required by law for personal vehicles to operate on roads. They can't put you to work in an illegal vehicle, pure and simple.

States are already taking steps to clarify laws to keep people like you from spreading misinformation. California has already passed it. DC has passed it. Arizona passed it, but Brewer veto'd it due to some wording issues. It'll come up again this upcoming session. In every situation, the states have held that personal insurance applies when app off, and Uber must provide app on insurance (Which it does, even where not yet required).

Also, this statement is incredibly stupid: 

"Therefore, you are driving uninsured during that phase because Uber's insurance at that point is a contingent secondary plan."

If there is a secondary plan, then you are obviously NOT uninsured, by definition.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

When you are parked in a cell lot with your app on, you are commercially operating, and I defy you to show ONE case where that is not true.
IF your primary insurance says you are NOT covered by them during this phase (and every one I've talked to says that with 100% emphasis) you ARE NOT covered while sitting in wait for a ping. Since Uber's is secondary, you are operating ILLEGALLY. Furthermore, when you drive to a neighborhood to drop off a pax, as you pull away you have NO OTHER reason to be pulling away but COMMERCIAL USE. Insurance companies have won that time and time again. And the secondary plan does not meet the PRIMARY obligations, ask any Texas insurance regulator.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Droosk said:


> Tx Rides, sorry man, but you're wrong. This has been handled in the courts already, and Sean has already provided a dozen cases where drivers were operating under a commercial activity that law found insurance companies could not exclude. This is established case law. The key point is that Uber drivers are not "actively engaged" in seeking for hire activity. Unlike cabs, Uber drivers don't need to troll street corners looking for someone to flag them down. As for why they ask for your personal insurance info, its because personal insurance is required by law for personal vehicles to operate on roads. They can't put you to work in an illegal vehicle, pure and simple.
> 
> States are already taking steps to clarify laws to keep people like you from spreading misinformation. California has already passed it. DC has passed it. Arizona passed it, but Brewer veto'd it due to some wording issues. It'll come up again this upcoming session. In every situation, the states have held that personal insurance applies when app off, and Uber must provide app on insurance (Which it does, even where not yet required).
> 
> ...


Actually AB2293 makes the coverage perfectly clear that the commercial period is the entire app-on period, AND the personal coverage NOT the coverage currently in effect, which is precisely what I, and others have been warning about all along.
=====================================================================================================
(a) Nothing in this section shall be construed to require a private passenger automobile insurance policy to provide primary or excess coverage during the period of time from the moment a participating driver in a transportation network company logs on to the transportation network company's online-enabled application or platform until the driver logs off the online-enabled application or platform or the passenger exits the vehicle, whichever is later.
(b) During the period of time from the moment a participating driver in a transportation network company logs on to the transportation network company's online-enabled application or platform until the driver logs off the online-enabled application or platform or the passenger exits the vehicle, whichever is later, all of the following shall apply:
(1) The participating driver's or the vehicle owner's personal automobile insurance policy shall not provide any coverage to the participating driver, vehicle owner, or any third party, unless the policy expressly provides for that coverage during the period of time to which this subdivision is applicable, with or without a separate charge, or the policy contains an amendment or endorsement to provide that coverage, for which a separately stated premium is charged.
(2) The participating driver's or the vehicle owner's personal automobile insurance policy shall not have the duty to defend or indemnify for the driver's activities in connection with the transportation network company, unless the policy expressly provides otherwise for the period of time to which this subdivision is applicable, with or without a separate charge, or the policy contains an amendment or endorsement to provide that coverage, for which a separately stated premium is charged.
=====================================================================================================


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## Droosk (Sep 1, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Actually AB2293 makes the coverage perfectly clear that the commercial period is the entire app-on period





Droosk said:


> In every situation, the states have held that personal insurance applies when app off, and Uber must provide app on insurance (Which it does, even where not yet required).


Thank you for repeating EXACTLY what I said. Do you even bother to read what you're replying to, or do you enjoy being ignorant?


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

you're both right on this. The Cal. law goes beyond what Uber gives now and that's why it's a bad law (surprise!) the thing is, for many of us, defining our activity is very difficult. I have at times owned a couple of businesses, and I ran into this back then too, just as I still do now. What activity is for what business? With this the lines are blurred even more, and it theory, a person like me could put Uber on the hook for his insurance 100% of the time, even when they are clearly not ubering. Take this typical day... I get out in my car, I turn on the app, I go to the supermarket, a ping come in before I go in and I take it. After I drop off that Pax, I put the app back on and drive to see a customer, I talk with him and then drive him to see a new store being built. The app gives me a ping but because I'm tied up with him I just ignore it (perfectly Ok under the present system) after I drop him off I get another ping and I take it. After all is said and done I drive to the supermarket, shop and go home, the whole time with the app on. Now tell me, why in fairness should Uber be paying my whole insurance bill that entire day? (of course the cabbies will say YES YES YES it should, as they want to kill this, just as much as blockbuster did when they sued Netflix)


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

TheHottness said:


> Hey Sean thanks for sharing! There's so many different things out there I was getting confused... Much appreciated


If you haven't called your own personal auto policy company to check I sure as hell wouldn't listen to anyone else.

There is only one way to find out. Call your own insurance company. What Uber shills say is meaningless. Yeah, the usual suspect. Giving the only advice that matters.

Dumb shits.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Droosk said:


> Thank you for repeating EXACTLY what I said. Do you even bother to read what you're replying to, or do you enjoy being ignorant?


My point all along has been everyone driving without this particular coverage is at risk. And I have yet to encounter anyone that has the policy outlined in this California bill. The lack of personal coverage outlined in that bill is consistent with the warnings from every single provider I have met over the course of the last year to year and a half. All that Bill does is make it clear what the providers have said all along. Again, what I have said all along. It is commercial service when that app is on and you are waiting to be hailed.

I will tell you who is ignorant: any driver who does not have their butt covered. Any driver who has been taking A web page or forum posting as legal advice. I have been consistent, advising drivers to get clarification from their provider. Many of you have been just stating as a matter of fact, that everything is covered.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Droosk said:


> Tx Rides, sorry man, but you're wrong. This has been handled in the courts already, and Sean has already provided a dozen cases where drivers were operating under a commercial activity that law found insurance companies could not exclude. This is established case law. The key point is that Uber drivers are not "actively engaged" in seeking for hire activity. Unlike cabs, Uber drivers don't need to troll street corners looking for someone to flag them down. As for why they ask for your personal insurance info, its because personal insurance is required by law for personal vehicles to operate on roads. They can't put you to work in an illegal vehicle, pure and simple.
> 
> States are already taking steps to clarify laws to keep people like you from spreading misinformation. California has already passed it. DC has passed it. Arizona passed it, but Brewer veto'd it due to some wording issues. It'll come up again this upcoming session. In every situation, the states have held that personal insurance applies when app off, and Uber must provide app on insurance (Which it does, even where not yet required).
> 
> ...


You give worse advice than Sean. There is only one accurate advice, and that is what the 'personal auto insurance company' SAYS.

All your drivel is meaningless and a LIE to boot. And Sean citing legal cases? Pissing in the wind.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

TheHottness said:


> Hey Sean thanks for sharing! There's so many different things out there I was getting confused... Much appreciated


You hear only what you want to hear and you've been whining for authorization for a couple days now.

One thing you obviously DON'T WANT to do and that is to make one phone call to your personal auto insurance company to find out.

Good grief. I can't believe the level of driver ignorance.


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## Bill Feit (Aug 1, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> My point all along has been everyone driving without this particular coverage is at risk. And I have yet to encounter anyone that has the policy outlined in this California bill. The lack of personal coverage outlined in that bill is consistent with the warnings from every single provider I have met over the course of the last year to year and a half. All that Bill does is make it clear what the providers have said all along. Again, what I have said all along. It is commercial service when that app is on and you are waiting to be hailed.
> I will tell you who is ignorant: any driver who does not have their butt covered. Any driver who has been taking A web page or forum posting as legal advice. I have been consistent, advising drivers to get clarification from their provider. Many of you have been just stating as a matter of fact, that everything is covered.


I appreciate your input TX, who are you insured with? Is it commercial? I tried to get one quote ON LINE and got no answer. I was actually considering getting the TCP license here in CA and it requires Commerical insurance so I wanted to find out how much before I proceed. Who can I call? FYI, I understand Liberty Mutual WILL insure Uber drivers and I am considering going with them.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

TheHottness said:


> Thanks dude, no need for the twit comment... I'm just looking too see if any NJ drivers have done this yet. Also I beleive in NJ to get commercial insurance you need commercial plates from the state. That's why I asked in this forum.


Good luck as you figure this out. Here is a web post which may help guide you to the right place to ask the right questions.

http://www.naic.org/documents/consumer_alert_ridesharing_drivers.htm


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Bill Feit said:


> I appreciate your input TX, who are you insured with? Is it commercial? I tried to get one quote ON LINE and got no answer. I was actually considering getting the TCP license here in CA and it requires Commerical insurance so I wanted to find out how much before I proceed. Who can I call? FYI, I understand Liberty Mutual WILL insure Uber drivers and I am considering going with them.


Bill I'm fully insured, I don "Uber" ;-)
I believe another poster recently contacted Liberty and said the answer was no. I would imagine someone is coming up with something in California in order to support the latest laws. 
I just shared this link with another poster, hopefully this will help give you some ideas of the types of questions you need to ask as you pursue your insurance. You are smart to be seeking ample coverage and kudos to you for taking responsibility for your own actions. Nothing any of us say on the Internet will hold up in court. Only that signed piece of paper will protect you!!

http://www.naic.org/documents/consumer_alert_ridesharing_drivers.htm


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

I get a kick out of the 3 or 4 drivers here who falsely pimp that their personal auto insurance has them covered and how much money they make, but they can't call their personal auto coverage company and they can't afford the, what I would consider, very reasonable additional cost.

For the record I called State Farm, Geico, Esurance and Progressive, all national personal auto insurance carriers and they all told me the IDENTICAL STATEMENT. No, we don't provide personal auto insurance to anyone who does ride share for any reason. We also had one ride share person here who called Liberty Mutual and they said the same thing. Anyone else can pick up the phone and get the same information I did if they wanted to verify my statements. Their phone numbers are available simply by Googling them. We also had at least 3 other drivers here who DID make the phone calls to their OWN insurance companies and they found out the same thing I did. NO they don't provide personal auto policies to people who do ride share and would cancel them if the drivers were honest with them.

So, figure it out fools. To be sure you're legit or verify you're not it is YOU who should make the call to your personal auto insurance carrier and you will find out the facts in a HURRY. I will also note that NOT ONE UBER SHILL pimping that everyone is OK and everything is FINE has provided the name of THEIR PERSONAL AUTO INSURANCE carrier so we could CALL AND VERIFY their statements.

Do your own INSURANCE checks 'independent contractors.' IF you don't, you may not be independent for long in this gig. You'll be some lawyers *****.


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## Bill Feit (Aug 1, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I get a kick out of the 3 or 4 drivers here who falsely pimp that their personal auto insurance has them covered and how much money they make, but they can't call their personal auto coverage company and they can't afford the, what I would consider, very reasonable additional cost.
> 
> For the record I called State Farm, Geico, Esurance and Progressive, all national personal auto insurance carriers and they all told me the IDENTICAL STATEMENT. No, we don't provide personal auto insurance to anyone who does ride share for any reason. We also had one ride share person here who called Liberty Mutual and they said the same thing. Anyone else can pick up the phone and get the same information I did if they wanted to verify my statements. Their phone numbers are available simply by Googling them. We also had at least 3 other drivers here who DID make the phone calls to their OWN insurance companies and they found out the same thing I did. NO they don't provide personal auto policies to people who do ride share and would cancel them if the drivers were honest with them.
> 
> ...


Come on guys--what you are actually saying is calling our insurance company is futile and honesty will lead to cancellation--uh, so why do it? If you really want to be helpful tell me WHO WILL insure me and I will call them, yes, even if it is Commercial Insurance and I have to get Livery Plates.

Not sure if you follow the "Rideshare Guy" and his blog but he says we should all sit back and wait, doing nothing for now...if you have an accident take what comes and coverage will probably have to be from your ride share partner (even Uber's $2500 deductable), if you don't then all State's will eventually have to take action as ride share is too popular and is what the public seems to want and backs its expansion. So, does anyone have a company I can get a quote from? Thanks,


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Bill Feit said:


> Come on guys--what you are actually saying is calling our insurance company is futile and honesty will lead to cancellation--uh, so why do it? If you really want to be helpful tell me WHO WILL insure me and I will call them, yes, even if it is Commercial Insurance and I have to get Livery Plates.
> 
> Not sure if you follow the "Rideshare Guy" and his blog but he says we should all sit back and wait, doing nothing for now...if you have an accident take what comes and coverage will probably have to be from your ride share partner (even Uber's $2500 deductable), if you don't then all State's will eventually have to take action as ride share is too popular and is what the public seems to want and backs its expansion. So, does anyone have a company I can get a quote from? Thanks,


Call this gentleman. He is the person who told me in no uncertain terms, that they are "evolving" with the times and will take Uber drivers, in fact, he told me they now have added it to the questions they ask. I had asked him about it upfront with a number of other questions. When I agreed to have him do a quote for me, he asked me that question and I said "yes", which made him read a disclaimer about how they do not cover you when you are doing those activities. Now we can debate that gray area all day, that time when the app is on and you're on your own time, but then again, so is my email app, my FB app, and my SMS app and I might get messages from them too offering me "work" related to my other business! The bottom line is, Uber has made it clear that they will even provide insurance in case it gets denied then, so the debate is pointless. Here is the guys name and contact info: Joel DeWit, Sales Agent
[email protected]
phone: (800) 772-9351 ext. 2549

Keep in mind, he said this is designed for people like me that do this occasionally. If you're going to do this full time I would suggest you might want to get something more comprehensive, as it's inevitable that you're going to want to do you own livery type of work anyhow.


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## shon (Oct 19, 2014)

we don't have a uber driver here in this forum with accident experience while ubering? anybody like to share the experience?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Bill Feit said:


> Come on guys--what you are actually saying is calling our insurance company is futile and honesty will lead to cancellation--uh, so why do it?


Your policy is more than likely voided anyway. So why should you give a damn? Is that what you're asking?



> If you really want to be helpful tell me WHO WILL insure me and I will call them, yes, even if it is Commercial Insurance and I have to get Livery Plates.


If you're too lazy to

A. Call your own insurance company to find out they more than likely don't allow ride share and

B. Call a local commercial auto insurance professional to have them locate a sufficient policy

you should just ride insurance bareback and take the consequences, which are many.



> Not sure if you follow the "Rideshare Guy" and his blog but he says we should all sit back and wait, doing nothing for now...if you have an accident take what comes and coverage will probably have to be from your ride share partner (even Uber's $2500 deductable), if you don't then all State's will eventually have to take action as ride share is too popular and is what the public seems to want and backs its expansion. So, does anyone have a company I can get a quote from? Thanks,


I've listened to "Rideshare Guy" too and you apparently only heard what you want to hear. He was pretty clear there is a great deal of risk and even gives a decent summary about what will happen if you get in an accident if I recall. Some drivers aren't willing to take the chance. Most don't give a damn if they have sufficient insurance or not.

*Call a local commercial insurance professional in your area.* They are the only ones equipped to provide sufficient advice. Even if you don't go with the 'cost' you might learn somethings.


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## Sean O'Gorman (Apr 17, 2014)

A Cleveland driver had an accident last night while en route to pick up a passenger. I'll keep you guys updated, and when all goes relatively smooth (at least as much as an insurance claim can go) I'll make sure to point it out to the resident idiot here.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> A Cleveland driver had an accident last night while en route to pick up a passenger. I'll keep you guys updated, and when all goes relatively smooth (at least as much as an insurance claim can go) I'll make sure to point it out to the resident idiot here.


If you continue to claim that obtaining pertinent information from drivers OWN insurance professionals is idiot advice what can I say to that? The only idiots in that equation are drivers who don't.


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## Bill Feit (Aug 1, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Your policy is more than likely voided anyway. So why should you give a damn? Is that what you're asking?
> 
> If you're too lazy to
> 
> ...


Wow, you are a piece of work--you just made my "ignore" list. Good for you right, now you won't have to put up with my laziness. BTW, my hearing is just fine, and so is my hearing. Get a life man and do us all a favor and get off this board if all you want to do is be critical and not offer any help.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Bill Feit said:


> Wow, you are a piece of work--you just made my "ignore" list. Good for you right, now you won't have to put up with my laziness. BTW, my hearing is just fine, and so is my hearing. Get a life man and do us all a favor and get off this board if all you want to do is be critical and not offer any help.


If you think obtaining professional insurance advice is bad advice what do you expect me to say? I know that most of you will not like to hear good advice because you already know that you're playing the LIE and HIDE game with your personal auto insurance carrier. Liars never respect TRUTH.


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## shon (Oct 19, 2014)

Does any uber driver has additional insurance for ridesharing here?


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## Orlando_Driver (Jul 14, 2014)

I dont ride share, I car pool


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

While I realize that ANY livery use can be cause by your insurance company to drop you, you remain personally insured by the company in the event of an accident provided you're paying your premium. And if you're not engaged in transporting passengers at the time of an accident, you should be the only person in your vehicle. The problem we face is that insurance companies haven't caught up to ride sharing yet. They offer personal insurance with a livery exclusion or commercial insurance but not a hybrid policy. That will change very soon. The risk ride sharing drivers take now is having their personal policies dropped following a claim if the insurance companies find out they transport passengers for hire. There isn't a risk of being uninsured in the event of a claim.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

Bill Feit said:


> Wow, you are a piece of work--you just made my "ignore" list. Good for you right, now you won't have to put up with my laziness. BTW, my hearing is just fine, and so is my hearing. Get a life man and do us all a favor and get off this board if all you want to do is be critical and not offer any help.


If he's not a ride share driver, he doesn't belong on UberPeople.net. I clicked ignore too. I'll give him credit for being honest about it though. Most of the anti-ride share trolls on here aren't so up front. It's easy to understand why they're upset though. Uber and Lyft have business models that appeal to riders over taxis for a variety of reasons. Ride sharing is seriously hurting the taxi industry. And that industry has accepted high regulatory fees and commercial insurance requirements in order to (previously) secure their market. Ride sharing has broken that restricted market model and allowed a free market system to thrive again. The traditional taxi companies would be much more likely to survive if they offered a smart phone summoning application that matches Uber/Lyft for speed and guaranteed cashless transactions. Too many riders in my city are turning away from taxis because they never know when they're going to arrive and the credit card machines in the taxis always seem to be "broken".


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## Sly (Aug 30, 2014)

Easy solution; Don't rideshare, quit. 
Problem solved.


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## tsogm (Nov 5, 2014)

Is everyone aware that this is the language in the "Rasier Software Sublicense & Online Services Agreement", which we all had to accept as the document that controls the relationship between drivers and Uber?" (See paragraph INSURANCE>>VEHICLE INSURANCE>>iii Additional Excess Coverage, on page 6 as the PDF is printed):

"You understand and acknowledge that your own automobile insurance policy is primary and that the Company's policy is excess to your policy."​
That's pretty darn clear. And it pretty clearly nullifies any statements Uber has made about their $1M policy being primary to our personal policy, as in for example:

*$1 million of liability coverage per incident.* Uber holds a commercial insurance policy with $1 million of coverage per incident. Drivers' liability to third parties is covered from the moment a driver accepts a trip to its conclusion. *This policy is expressly primary to any personal auto coverage* (However it will not take precedence over any commercial auto insurance for the vehicle). We have provided a $1 million liability policy since commencing ridesharing in early 2013. (boldface added for emphasis).​A few definitions:

*primary insurance*
Property or liability insurance policy that covers up to the policy's limit (usually after deductibles) whether or not other policies cover the same risk. In contrast, excess insurance is triggered only when the primary insurance is exhausted.​
*excess insurance*
This is an insurance policy designed to provide additional coverage over one or more primary policies, such as home and auto. It does not pay a loss until the loss amount exceeds the coverage limits on the primary policy.​
Elsewhere, for example in response to media inquiries about their liability, Uber touts their $1M policy, but says:

"This policy is excess to the driver's own policy, but it acts as primary insurance if the driver's policy is not available for any reason, covering from the first dollar."​In other words, it _becomes _primary only if the "first" primary insurance denies coverage - a laughable manipulation of the terms.

Again, everyone can and should have their eyes open and make their own decisions. Personally I'm about to head out and log in as soon as I hit Send on this post. I just think it's important that we realize that text clipped from a webpage that may not exist tomorrow doesn't mean much - the contract we agreed to is what matters, and:

a) that formal agreement that controls the drivers' relationship with Uber states clearly that their coverage is "excess", and not "primary"
b) they state publicly that the exact opposite is true

All of this is evolving so quickly, and is so nuanced, that no one can rightfully say that they know how it would play out in the event of a serious claim. So we can debate forever what _might _happen.

The only concrete evidence we have is how Uber behaves, as described above, and this is the company that we're expecting (hoping?) will have our backs in a worst-case scenario, and which we would have to pay a team of lawyers to fight if they don't.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

Uber and Lyft have two policies. The first covers riders from the point they accept a ride until they end it. In that case, their commercial policies are primary unless the person has commercial insurance. But Uber and Lyft also have a second gap policy that covers drivers while they are logged in to the apps but not en route to a ride or on a ride. Those gap policies are excess insurance and a person's person policy is primary. That's clear and not an issue. The issue is that almost all personal policies have a livery exclusion that can result in the policy being cancelled if their insurance company finds out the person is driving for a ride sharing service at all, even if they aren't logged in at the point an accident happens and a claim is filed. Most insurance companies will pay on a claim but will then cancel the policy and it can become difficult for a driver to be approved for any future personal policies.


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## unter ling (Sep 29, 2014)

Brady said:


> While I realize that ANY livery use can be cause by your insurance company to drop you, you remain personally insured by the company in the event of an accident provided you're paying your premium. And if you're not engaged in transporting passengers at the time of an accident, you should be the only person in your vehicle. The problem we face is that insurance companies haven't caught up to ride sharing yet. They offer personal insurance with a livery exclusion or commercial insurance but not a hybrid policy. That will change very soon. The risk ride sharing drivers take now is having their personal policies dropped following a claim if the insurance companies find out they transport passengers for hire. There isn't a risk of being uninsured in the event of a claim.


http://blog.uber.com/partnersadelaide?indeed?AU-Adelaide_Indeed_Driver_Acquistion?adelaide/p2p

Brady please look at the link i have provided here, special attention to the very last part.
"YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST COMPULSORY THIRD PARTY (CTP) PLUS THIRD PARTY PROPERTY INSURANCE AND BE A LISTED DRIVER ON THE INSURANCE POLICY"

In South Australia CTP is mandatory and included in the cost of vehicle registration. Third party property insurance is exactly what it says property coverage for a third party. UBER are suggesting no coverage is required for your own vehicle. This could make life interesting as they only cover you while you are doing a job. So does UBERS INSURANCE cover these drivers?

Taxis and hire cars have govt regulations enforcing comlrehensive motor vehicle insurance, CTP and public liability with a minimum of $5 million coverage. Added to that road worthiness inspections every 6 months.

The whole insurance thing according to this advert is at the best murky.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Sean, you said, in part:
"Driving for Uber will have minimal, if any, impact on your personal policy. Worst case scenario, if an underwriter finds out, they'll non-renew the policy, which your next insurer will probably not even know. All they'd know is the accident, if you had one."
It's been a long time since I filled out an application for insurance, but I seem to remember that there are specific questions with regard to prior coverage, including asking if you have been cancelled or non-renewed. Lying on the application would constitute fraud, would it not? Further, I think most insurers require evidence of coverage in effect at the time of application for new coverage, right? And with insurance tied electronically to DMV records, how difficult would it be to check?
If I'm missing something, please explain.


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## Brady (Oct 6, 2014)

unter ling said:


> http://blog.uber.com/partnersadelaide?indeed?AU-Adelaide_Indeed_Driver_Acquistion?adelaide/p2p
> 
> Brady please look at the link i have provided here, special attention to the very last part.
> "YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST COMPULSORY THIRD PARTY (CTP) PLUS THIRD PARTY PROPERTY INSURANCE AND BE A LISTED DRIVER ON THE INSURANCE POLICY"


Not so much murky, there is just considerable variations among states regardless of whether they're in the United States or Australia. In Michigan, for example, we're a no fault state that also happens to be the only state in the United States with unlimited catastrophic coverage. Our requirement therefore isn't for CTP but for mandatory no fault coverage. All drivers in Michigan area required to have it regardless of whether they drive for TNP's or not. Uber Michigan requires proof of it in order to become and remain a driver.


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## UberDiva (Sep 22, 2014)

Sean O'Gorman said:


> You're fine as-is. Read the policy. As a named operator, Uber's insurance is primary while on a trip, or en route to pick up a passenger. The only exception is if you have your own commercial policy, in which case Uber's becomes excess. Doesn't make sense to buy commercial insurance, now does it?
> 
> Driving for Uber will have minimal, if any, impact on your personal policy. Worst case scenario, if an underwriter finds out, they'll non-renew the policy, which your next insurer will probably not even know. All they'd know is the accident, if you had one.
> 
> Driving for Uber will not impact your ability to make a claim for a personal auto accident, as the only potential exclusion (being used as a livery vehicle or transporting people or goods for a fee, an exclusion that may not even apply in the first place) wouldn't be applicable to a loss that occurs on your own time. The insurance company can't void your policy or rescind coverage if the basis for that recission is something they wouldn't have covered anyway.


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## UberDiva (Sep 22, 2014)

Hi Sean, what Ubr policy are talking about? Rasier? How do I get a copy of Uber's coverage for the passenger? If the insurance company sees the passengers are covered bu Uber's Rasier policy, then they should not have a problem insuring me and my vehicle.


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## Bigusdicus (Jan 1, 2015)

Tx rides said:


> When you are parked in a cell lot with your app on, you are commercially operating, and I defy you to show ONE case where that is not true.
> IF your primary insurance says you are NOT covered by them during this phase (and every one I've talked to says that with 100% emphasis) you ARE NOT covered while sitting in wait for a ping. Since Uber's is secondary, you are operating ILLEGALLY. Furthermore, when you drive to a neighborhood to drop off a pax, as you pull away you have NO OTHER reason to be pulling away but COMMERCIAL USE. Insurance companies have won that time and time again. And the secondary plan does not meet the PRIMARY obligations, ask any Texas insurance regulator.


Same in Massachusetts. Most companies will drop you if they find out you were involved in ridesharing when you got into an accident. Your fault or other driver. It dont matter. I called a few companies and only found one in Massachusetts that said they will cover me up to the point of ride acceptance. During ride uber covers me. At the end if the ride i am back on my policy

Every state is different.

Remembee uber has a $1000 deductible. Lyft $2500. Sidecar $ 500


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## PT Go (Sep 23, 2014)

UberDiva said:


> Hi Sean, what Ubr policy are talking about? Rasier? How do I get a copy of Uber's coverage for the passenger? If the insurance company sees the passengers are covered bu Uber's Rasier policy, then they should not have a problem insuring me and my vehicle.


Here's what is out there currently. I was advised to make sure that I have a copy in the vehicle at all times as if for some rare reason (and this has happened), you get a CPUC inspector in your car, they will ask for it. I have this and several other documents (Uber's TNC # and a copy of the Uber incident report) just in case.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

UberDiva said:


> Hi Sean, what Ubr policy are talking about? Rasier? How do I get a copy of Uber's coverage for the passenger? If the insurance company sees the passengers are covered bu Uber's Rasier policy, then they should not have a problem insuring me and my vehicle.


It is not just your passenger's coverage they are concerned about. First, your commercial use just makes you a higher risk, statistically. Next, the "app on" phase, where Uber is NOT primary (well, unless you are in a few choice states as of sometime this year) is another "commercial" risk, and they all know that drivers are just claiming they were "out on personal use", etc. and don't care to absorb the cost of the cases where that is not true, and don't want to spend the investigative cash to prove otherwise. Many states have strict rules about primary/secondary, etc as well.


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## PT Go (Sep 23, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> It is not just your passenger's coverage they are concerned about. First, your commercial use just makes you a higher risk, statistically. Next, the "app on" phase, where Uber is NOT primary (well, unless you are in a few choice states as of sometime this year) is another "commercial" risk, and they all know that drivers are just claiming they were "out on personal use", etc. and don't care to absorb the cost of the cases where that is not true, and don't want to spend the investigative cash to prove otherwise. Many states have strict rules about primary/secondary, etc as well.


It's going to be an interesting case with the CPUC changes that are coming up in California. I might think that Uber will eventually find a way to have commercial insurance for full coverage but will stick to the driver in one fashion of another.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

PT Go said:


> It's going to be an interesting case with the CPUC changes that are coming up in California. I might think that Uber will eventually find a way to have commercial insurance for full coverage but will stick to the driver in one fashion of another.


Next up: "LEGAL Ride Surcharge" ;-)


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## PT Go (Sep 23, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Next up: "LEGAL Ride Surcharge" ;-)


Bingo! Less Safety fee for a net of...


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

PT Go said:


> Bingo! Less Safety fee for a net of...


Seat belt fee
Brake fee
Headlight fee


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## Bigusdicus (Jan 1, 2015)

PT Go said:


> Here's what is out there currently. I was advised to make sure that I have a copy in the vehicle at all times as if for some rare reason (and this has happened), you get a CPUC inspector in your car, they will ask for it. I have this and several other documents (Uber's TNC # and a copy of the Uber incident report) just in case.


Who is:
MARSH USA, INC.
BOSTON, MA 02110


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