# To Longhaul Or Not To Longhaul?



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

I admit it. I am a Longhauler extraordinaire. I specifically look for ways to Longhaul whenever humanly possible, looking to maximize my earnings and screw Uber/Lyft.

I'm curious about UPNet's view on Longhauling. Note I am NOT talking about taking a ridiculous out of the way route like these:

















Even for me there are extreme. The driver that did there recently was deactivated, understandably so.

I'm talking about going the longest route possible while keeping the ETA similar. The rider's paying nothing extra but I get more of the Upfront Pricing.

Background for newer drivers:

When I first signed up to drive Uber (Lyft recently updated their TOS, so they do the exact same thing, since Lyft is Uber in a Pink Tutu), it was fairly simple. They charged the rider a per mile/per minute rate for a trip, and charged Surge in times of extreme demand. They took a percentage of that trip (20%-25% depending on when you started driving for Uber) and gave the driver the rest. It was pretty straightforward.

Riders got some nasty surprises because when it was surging it wouldn't say "your ride that's normally 12 dollars is going to be $40, it just said "Your ride will be a 3.2X Surge" and it was up to the rider to do the math. This was especially difficult for late night Uber users because drunks can't do math.

Uber implemented their Upfront Pricing model, which told the rider "your ride will be $40, click here to accept". It made for better transparency of fares and less nasty "morning after" surprises. If Uber had left it at this, it would've been fine. Passengers would be happy because they'd know what they'd be paying ahead of time.

Uber got greedy. They no longer just charged for time/distance. They'd base the Upfront Price estimated based on taking the longest possible route. They also started doing several other things I'd consider shady and ripping off the rider, such as

*charging riders more based on where they're coming or going from: http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-controversial-pricing-charging-more-based-on-neighborhood-2017-5

*charging based on ride history i.e. if you paid $20 for a $12 ride, they know that and will charge you $20 again and again

When Uber started doing this, they also changed the driver contract. No longer would Uber just take 20%-25% of the fare. They now would pay us for time/distance of the trip, and charge the rider the Upfront Price. Uber encourages/hopes drivers will take the shortest most direct route (most direct is NOT always the fastest) and collect the overage/difference. The term Longhauling came about out of frustration with being taken advantage of by Uber. We were basically told "here are the new terms, we're going to take more, deal with it or do something else". I, like many other people, like Uber in some respects (the flexibility and meeting people), so we grudgingly accepted the new terms.

Uber now showed us what the rider paid for a trip, and a breakdown of what Uber got. It wasn't uncommon to see Uber receive sometimes 50% or more of a trip, especially if you used Uber's navigation.

In the past I would generally take the most direct route from Point A to B because the longer the route, the higher the bill for the rider. With upfront Pricing, no matter what route (within reason) we take, their trip cost won't change.

In my market there are multiple ways to get to a destination. From downtown D.C. near the Capital One Arena to Silver Spring MD you can go through town and hit traffic light after traffic light (D.C. lights seem to be timed so that when your light turns green, the next light just begins to turn red). It can easily take 40 minutes. You can also go 695 to B.W. Parkway to 495 and be in Silver Spring in roughly the same time, with much less stress as a driver, as well as better ride for the passenger. It is longer mileage so it's much more profitable as a driver. Here are two examples, same trip but two different routes:

The "direct" way, through town hitting every goddamn mistimed light in the city:










The Longhaul way:










Note it's actually quicker by 10 minutes, but also *twice* the miles. In case you didn't know, we only make money when we're moving. The more miles the more $$$ per trip.

The latter example is "Longhauling" as we define it. It's not defrauding the passenger, as their price for the trip hasn't changed and the length of time for the trip is roughly the same. They would pay the same rate no matter which way we took. Uber takes less of a profit on the trip, but that's the system they set up when they forced us into the new agreement.

If Uber had kept their original agreement in place, I'd just drive Point A to B in the most direct route possible. Now I look for ways to "Longhaul" whenever possible.

TL;DR:

Do you Longhaul in your market? If not, why not?


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

Lots of tourists in my market. I do it as much as reasonably possible.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

not knowingly... took a German on a 18 mile ride vs 11...was talking to him all the way, had two options , took the longer one accidentally, told him,,,,
He gave 2 dollar cash tip
If the pax is not paying extra, then it is not a big deal... for ever 10 runs, 1 
Longhaul


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## Solid 5 (Aug 24, 2018)

New2This I admit, you are my idol and I try to emulate you and subscribe to your theory as much as humanly possible. If I get a ride where I can't longhaul I get pissed (or if I start to longhaul and the pax catches it and says "no no no go this way", rather the argue I just say something like "I'll go whatever way you would like"). I've pulled off some doozies since I started this; in fact a route I take from Uptown to the airport or vice versa (which is the same in minutes but twice as long in miles) I personally call "Route 5" (can't plagiarize I-5 from Seattle LOL). Makes the fares a minimum of $2.50-$4 more (so from $7.50-$8 to $10ish or more depending on how much I want to push it). I also go a much different route in the mornings from near where I live to the airport, I-77 here is a parking lot so I go the back roads, either the same time or shave 4-8 minutes off and add a good 20% to my take. I ALWAYS make sure to let the pax know "Just to let you know, I-77 is a mess right now with stopped traffic, if it's OK I am going to take the less direct route but it is much faster since there will be no traffic". Never have had a complaint yet, as a matter of fact it is kinda scenic so most enjoy it. I bet I am making an extra $10-$12 a day...6 days a week that's $250ish a month, so free cable + cell payment (and since I get 40+ MPG it's no strain on the ol' gas gauge).

SIDENOTE: since I am part of the hated "Charlotte Surge", we really have to try to do whatever we can, within the framework of Uber/Lyft, to maximize our lost "earnings".


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## ratethis (Jan 7, 2017)

Whewwww I could’ve longhauled 3 rides just getting through your post . 

It do it occasionally, depends on who when and where. I know “shortcuts” that take less time but more miles. So yeah pax usually say, “hey your driving, or sure you know this town I don’t” they get the “shortcuts” and they usually end in a tip, when people think your looking out for them they like to tip you for it.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

I'll always longhaul if the alternate route is faster than or the same ETA as Uber's route. I'll inform the pax that we are taking an expert route to avoid traffic/accident/etc. If there's pushback from the pax I'll tell them again that my way is better, however if they insist on Uber's route then I'll do it to avoid hearing from Rohit later.

If a route is more than 10% or so more timewise then I take Uber's route.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Solid 5 said:


> (or if I start to longhaul and the pax catches it and says "no no no go this way", rather the argue I just say something like "I'll go whatever way you would like")


I always say "there was traffic/construction/accident/dead horse on ____, I'm gonna go _____. *I assume you don't want to look at brake lights any more than I do.*" The bolded part gets me a chuckle along with "do what you think is best"

My best fornicating of Uber by Longhauling:



















ratethis said:


> Whewwww I could've longhauled 3 rides just getting through your post


I know it's longwinded but I really want to open people's eyes about maximizing their profits since Uber's trying to bend us over the Deliverance log. Newer drivers may not realize what they can do.

If drivers Longhaul whenever they can they'll make more money. When they don't, Uber makes more.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

I always go the long way that doesn't charge them extra. My favorite is a route that pays me about $100 and the passenger pays roughly $60. It occurs frequently, the long way is only 5 minutes longer. I'm not going to divulge my secret route.


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## Solid 5 (Aug 24, 2018)

New2This said:


> I always say "there was traffic/construction/accident/dead horse on ____, I'm gonna go _____. *I assume you don't want to look at brake lights any more than I do.*" The bolded part gets me a chuckle along with "do what you think is best"


Usually you are right...however you get those "people" that throw a tantrum if they don't get their way.

Had a business couple, guy booked the ride from Uptown to the airport during rush hour, Asian woman was back-seating from second #1, kept telling me to go down this road, I looked at Google AND Waze and knew it was shorter distance but MUCH longer timewise and she would NOT take no for an answer. Almost missed their plane. Guy gets out after her (while she was running to the terminal) in absolutely no big rush, gets his suitcase and shrugs his shoulders as if to say "yeah, I'm stuck the rest of this trip with her".

MY usual stock answer is "Uber uses Google because it knows exactly where the traffic is, and it takes you the route that might be longer distance-wise but shorter time-wise. They want you to get to your destination as fast time-wise as possible". 9 times out of 10 the pax are completely cool with that reply.


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## BikingBob (May 29, 2018)

I do it within reason. In my market people enjoy the back roads and scenery. If they're tourist gawking at Amish I offer them the Amish tour of a lifetime.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

I'm surprised no one has said they don't, or opined against it.

In my area we have a few goody two shoes who somehow think Longhauling is wrong. Like they should let Uber make more. Personally I don't understand that...


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## BikingBob (May 29, 2018)

Some people also can't think for themselves and follow the navigation blindly. If I get someone at their location and they say "I am staying at ___ hotel" or I see their address is in the next town over, in my mind I know how to get there with back roads. They're never shorter in distance. But me doing 50 MPH down a back road and avoiding stop lights I am more than enough making up for lost time.


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## backcountryrez (Aug 24, 2017)

I always longhaul when the difference in ETA is anywhere from 6-20 minutes. Here in my market there people always come from the airport to the big corporate office (whose HQ is in McLean), which is 27 miles away taking the route Uber recommends, but nearly 37 taking the route I normally do. I always take my route as I beat the 27 mile estimate from anywhere between 5-15 minutes.

Pax like it, I pander to them by exclaiming awe at what they do (no one loves financial services), and we have a great conversation. Aside from the Indians I pick up, trips to/from this company to/from the airport tip 96% of the time.

To those who think I'm not being "ethical", if pax pays $30 for a ride from the place to the airport ($35 from the airport to the place), what would you rather get for it, $22-$26 or $35-$42?

And Uber normally loses $10 on the ride. Lyft more due to some creative driving. Win win!


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## To Mega Therion (Apr 21, 2018)

OK, this a great technique, so tell me if this is right:

1. You arrive (Lyft) or you start ride (Uber), so you can now see destination
2. You make pax wait a minute while you pull up Google Maps or Waze to see your options (do they ever complain while you sit there doing this?)
3. If you find a good longhaul route, you just follow Maps or Waze and keep Uber/Lyft in the background?


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

To Mega Therion said:


> OK, this a great technique, so tell me if this is right:
> 
> 1. You arrive (Lyft) or you start ride (Uber), so you can now see destination
> 2. You make pax wait a minute while you pull up Google Maps or Waze to see your options (do they ever complain while you sit there doing this?)
> 3. If you find a good longhaul route, you just follow Maps or Waze and keep Uber/Lyft in the background?


My GPS of preference is Google Maps.

1. Google Maps shows your main route in blue. It shows several alternate routes in grey that say "Similar ETA" or "3 minutes longer/faster". If you click on the grey lines it'll show the miles. I look at 2-3 different routes and, all things being equal, the longest route milewise is the way we are going.

2. I have big hands that cover the screen and I do this as I'm saying 'are you all buckled in?' etc. I do primarily longer DF trips in the evening so I have an idea which way I'm going to go. I also drive primarily at night so traffic isn't usually an issue.

3. I keep the Google Maps in the forefront. Uber/Lyft are minimized. I also engage in conversation with them so they don't notice the time difference if there is one. Do a search on here for my name and "Dale Carnegie" for my thoughts on conversation and tips. I go between 4.93 and 4.95 and do fairly well on tips. I do some outrageous routes occasionally and get tipped.

























It takes some practice but prior to D.C. getting hit with the plague and pestilence that is Charlotte Surge I was averaging between $25 to on occasion $35/trip. Now it's $20-$25/trip.

This was my best week this year doing DF and Longhauling.


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## possibledriver (Dec 16, 2014)

Downtown to airport via straight shot on surface road with back to back stop lights ~$8
Downtown to airport by looping around on the freeways ~$13
Around 5 miles difference, drive time on both routes 15 to 20 minutes


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## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

I look to longhaul every single possible chance.
Some areas near where I live are LITERALLY down one interstate / highway.
Those, I can't longhaul at all but the benefit is that once I drop them off, there are usually rides OFF of this Interstate / Highway / main dragstrip.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

Upfront pricing was the biggest fare increase for me. I felt like I could go the long way often because I'm not ripping off the passengers. I feel no guilt going the long way. 
Uber has taken less than 20% from me overall. On my Pool rides, the sum of the service fees is negative. Uber lost money on my pools


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

New2This said:


> I'm surprised no one has said they don't, or opined against it.
> 
> In my area we have a few goody two shoes who somehow think Longhauling is wrong. Like they should let Uber make more. Personally I don't understand that...


Ok. I'll be the unpopular one here. Lol

_Quote: "I'm talking about going the longest route possible while keeping the ETA similar. The rider's paying nothing extra but I get more of the Upfront Pricing."
"With upfront Pricing, no matter what route (within reason) we take, their trip cost won't change."_
Incorrect. Rider pay can and has changed from the Upfront pricing when driver takes longer route, even when ETA is similar. See Here. ​_Quote: "[Uber would] base the Upfront Price estimated based on taking the longest possible route."_
Kinda incorrect. While its possible, Uber does not do this 100% of the time.​I'm hearing more stories of riders being charged significantly more than their agreed upfront price.
Also hear stories of drivers checking fare details to find they were paid based on provided route rather than the actual route they took.

As a driver of 5500+ rides, I don't always take Uber's suggested route, and I've never had an issue so far. Either Uber eats the difference, or upcharges the pax, who doesn't notice or bother to report.


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## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

I’ll do it only if the gps apps are showing a longer route due to traffic patterns or I know there is something that we need to drive around.

Too often the pax is on their own phone, perhaps watching a gps route themselves to keep me in check. Sometimes not. Since I can’t be sure, I won’t intentionally go the long way just to make an extra couple of bucks.


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## Ms. Collette (Feb 26, 2016)

Whenever I can. I'm not going to make someone miss their flight but...


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## henrygates (Mar 29, 2018)

I go the fastest route and/or the one with fewer lights, which is always longer. I'd rather go around on the freeway than crawl straight through in traffic. Plus the inner city roads are trash that tear up your vehicle. Locals know this and out of towners don't know any better either way.


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## MadePenniesToday (Feb 24, 2017)

It's not wrong if you save time long hauling. I will always do it of longer route is less time. I'll even take the longer route if it's more time(within reason) if the opportunity feels right.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

nickd8775 said:


> On my Pool rides, the sum of the service fees is negative. Uber lost money on my pools


GREAT point! Pools are a license to Longhaul because the rider can't say a goddamn thing about it. Our own koyotemohn has turned this into an art form.

Before D.C. had Charlotte Surge I would love Surging Pools. For those of you with the old Surge multiplier, highly Surging Pools can be GREAT money and Uber can take it in the shorts. The first rider's Surge determines the Surge for the entire trip. This was a fluke 3.3X Surge Pool. Not a Longhaul per se but an example. I was bummed when it was over...



















Note- the only thing I do with base rate Pool/Shared is Shuffle them.

This was a nice Longhaul of a Pool. Ever seen Dulles airport at sunset? You have now...


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## To Mega Therion (Apr 21, 2018)

One thing to keep in mind: if you don't have unlimited data, having the additional GPS app running will suck it up quickly.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

New2This said:


> I admit it. I am a Longhauler extraordinaire. I specifically look for ways to Longhaul whenever humanly possible, looking to maximize my earnings and screw Uber/Lyft.
> 
> I'm curious about UPNet's view on Longhauling. Note I am NOT talking about taking a ridiculous out of the way route like these:
> 
> ...


Did the driver get fired for those longhauls or was it those longhauls AND other things he/she may have done?


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Did the driver get fired for those longhauls or was it those longhauls AND other things he/she may have done?


Those Longhauls were a major factor. He was doing some ridiculous stuff.
























Even I shake my head at these


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## TDR (Oct 15, 2017)

New2This said:


> I'm surprised no one has said they don't, or opined against it.
> 
> In my area we have a few goody two shoes who somehow think Longhauling is wrong. Like they should let Uber make more. Personally I don't understand that...


Longhauling is questionable Because you killing you car, spend more gas. Instead do more /offen trips or request. Give you quick way to achieve promotion. Possible tip, since many riders different. I'm not saying it's wrong. All I'm saying is no victory. I got experience ubering, but still learning and analyzing. Predict distanation, rating and how and where trip will go that is my crazy idea.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TDR said:


> Longhauling is questionable Because you killing you car, spend more gas. Instead do more /offen trips or request. Give you quick way to achieve promotion. Possible tip, since many riders different. I'm not saying it's wrong. All I'm saying is no victory. I got experience ubering, but still learning and analyzing. Predict distanation, rating and how and where trip will go that is my crazy idea.


I prefer higher payout per trip. I know some people like the shorties and Quest Harloting works for them. More power to them. I have my own Quest. It's a per trip average.

I also drive an Xchange Lease car so deadmiling isn't as big an issue for me.


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## Nonya busy (May 18, 2017)

Jo3030 said:


> I look to longhaul every single possible chance.
> Some areas near where I live are LITERALLY down one interstate / highway.
> Those, I can't longhaul at all but the benefit is that once I drop them off, there are usually rides OFF of this Interstate / Highway / main dragstrip.


Been driving for a while snd never longhauled or never knew about it.


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## Solid 5 (Aug 24, 2018)

TDR said:


> Longhauling is questionable Because you killing you car, spend more gas. Instead do more /offen trips or request. Give you quick way to achieve promotion. Possible tip, since many riders different. I'm not saying it's wrong. All I'm saying is no victory. I got experience ubering, but still learning and analyzing. Predict distanation, rating and how and where trip will go that is my crazy idea.


Just out of curiosity......are you Asian?


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

New2This said:


> Those Longhauls were a major factor. He was doing some ridiculous stuff.
> 
> View attachment 265048
> View attachment 265049
> ...


Obviously the longhauled trips with tips weren't reported. The passenger had to be satisfied to leave a tip


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

nickd8775 said:


> Obviously the longhauled trips with tips weren't reported. The passenger had to be satisfied to leave a tip


True but if it's over by a certain amount of time or WAAAAAY higher miles it gets flagged for review


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

I don't longhaul. Life's too short for stuff like that. Or at least at my age (65) it is.

A bunch of years ago, I took a taxi to the airport. I corrected him when he headed off the correct path. My guess is that he didn't know that I knew my way around my own town. (It was BU -- before Uber -- and I was leaving my car at home because it was a four week trip.)

C


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> I don't longhaul. Life's too short for stuff like that. Or at least at my age (65) it is.
> 
> A bunch of years ago, I took a taxi to the airport. I corrected him when he headed off the correct path. My guess is that he didn't know that I knew my way around my own town. (It was BU -- before Uber -- and I was leaving my car at home because it was a four week trip.)
> 
> C


Again not beating the dead horse but proper Longhauling isn't adding much time to the trip, nor is it adding to the rider's fare.

It's maximizing my profits and cutting into Uber's pocket. Win/win.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

New2This said:


> Again not beating the dead horse but proper Longhauling isn't adding much time to the trip, nor is it adding to the rider's fare.
> 
> It's maximizing my profits and cutting into Uber's pocket. Win/win.


I generally go with the quickest way to get there. But I generally avoid toll roads if the time is nearly the same.

Christine


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

had a chance for longhaul quick drop this week, but the passenger was a hottie who works in the media industry ....I told her, this rush hour traffic will delay your final time, so went with GPS.... Then a phone call comes from her loser BF , probably somebody who makes 5 million a year..
She says she is stuck in traffic..
Always delay if the passenger is good looking...sacrifice money sometimes 
Got a good tip


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I never long haul.

Uber picks the route by time, which in many cases when going to the airport, is not the shortest one by a longshot. And, the pax also pays based on mileage, not the time. So, UBER wins if you have to use the freeway or a ring road like many larger cities have.

So, in the case of airport trips here, I usually say to the pax, look you've got two choices, follow the app or I can cut it shorter by a couple of KM's by going this way and save you a buck or two. I've lived in my city for 30+ years and know the roads/routes better than the app does. Comes in handy during rush hour airport runs.

They always pick my way, and they always tip me $5+ in the end, so I win.


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## TDR (Oct 15, 2017)

New2This said:


> I prefer higher payout per trip. I know some people like the shorties and Quest Harloting works for them. More power to them. I have my own Quest. It's a per trip average.
> 
> I also drive an Xchange Lease car so deadmiling isn't as big an issue for me.


Not understandable. Look like I drive different understandings than you. Good luck


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

ANT 7 said:


> I never long haul.
> 
> Uber picks the route by time, which in many cases when going to the airport, is not the shortest one by a longshot. And, the pax also pays based on mileage, not the time. So, UBER wins if you have to use the freeway or a ring road like many larger cities have.
> 
> ...


Except it doesn't save them money. It makes Uber keep more money


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

nickd8775 said:


> Except it doesn't save them money. It makes Uber keep more money


If he's not in the US it may be different.



TDR said:


> Not understandable. Look like I drive different understandings than you. Good luck


We have to agree to disagree


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## HotUberMess (Feb 25, 2018)

I don’t longhaul; I fasthaul. Toll highways>surface streets and if pax disagrees, there’s another driver out there for them. I’m not sitting at red lights for 8 cents if there’s a faster way.


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## Solid 5 (Aug 24, 2018)

HotUberMess said:


> I don't longhaul; I fasthaul. *Toll highways>surface streets* and if pax disagrees, there's another driver out there for them. I'm not sitting at red lights for 8 cents if there's a faster way.


Toll highways > surface streets < rush hour on I-77 < back roads which are similar timewise but 20% longer mileage wise.


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## HotUberMess (Feb 25, 2018)

Solid 5 said:


> Toll highways > surface streets < rush hour on I-77 < back roads which are similar timewise but 20% longer mileage wise.


Oh no man, I don't do rush hour at all. Lol

I head out to nowheresville/Disney until rush hour is over.

God one time I got stuck on our highway with this tourist family from Ireland and after 90 minutes of gridlock they'd taught me a bunch of dirty football songs and I felt like we knew all we could know about strangers we'd just met and would never see again.


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

The ETA scales with traffic, no ETA by any nav app is ever accurate, wouldn't know how that could change anything if you are looking for an excuse for longhauling.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

No shill here bud.


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## SubaruLegacy (Jan 17, 2018)

I'll long haul within reason, usually it's one of Waze's 3 choices anyways. I don't think I've ever looked at what way Lyft is suggesting. Here in Miami I don't get any bonuses anymore no more PDB, and haven't gotten offered a single weekly goal, so there's really no incentive for me not to long haul. plus there are too many drivers and not enough rides. 

I can't stand when riders suggest a route. It'd be fine if they were choosing one of waze's other 2 alternate routes, but 9/10 times they want me to go some ridiculously slow way, that maybe during rush hour in bumper to bumper traffic might shave 30 seconds, but on the weekend nights your 18 turns all with lights and stop sign route, is not faster. PAX who don't own cars, are terrible at knowing the best ways. One that drives me crazy is one of the default routes i'm on all the time, gps wants you to take this road that regularly floods and has huge tree routes pushing up the ashpalt. The speed limit is 30mph, but even that slow if i take that route at that speed I'm gunna bounce unbuckled drunks into the roof of the car, and destroy my suspension. meanwhile, there's a 35mph road that's perfectly smooth and adds like .2 miles


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