# Gaming the guarantee is working..I almost want it to stay



## thedarkstar (Jan 1, 2015)

just go the statement here....

they paid me just over 200 in guarantees for 300 of fares for a total of 510 Net.

i have for obvious reasons cut down my driving significantly.

since i am online for about 8 hrs a day from around 8pm, i try to get about 9 trips after which i go to my house which is a bad location where i hardly ever get pings. 

nowadays, i desire for those short $4 rides.
if a rider pings from more than 5-6 miles i tell him/her to cancel and try a closer ride.
i no longer like riders going too far(at new rate i loose money when wheels are spinning), but there is not much i can do, i just take them and hope they will throw a tip. 

i also avoid surges. surges no longer help you. they help uber. once you have done your part i.e once Number of rider >=Number of hours online, then any extra money you make does not benefit you at all. Remember, the shorter the ride, the better.

Obviously, this is half what i was making last month, but with the new rates, i have had to be less ambitious.


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## Samename (Oct 31, 2014)

Ive always found its easy to convince riders to cancel with a phone call. 

Surprisingly I haven't read of Uber relistening to phone calls and using it against a driver. It is of course possible, but they don't have the time for it. 

If you can do those short rides and spend most of your guaranteed time without moving then your operating costs are significantly lower!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

I paid no attention to the guarantee and I never chase 'surges'.
So I was surprised to see today that I somehow qualified for the Uber winter incentive stuff.

Period Ending: January 19, 2015 - Trip Earnings $332.37
--------------------------------------------------
Fare Base + Time + Distance. 355.03
Surge 60.44
Uber Fee (83.10)
Miscellaneous (bonus) Items $*124.27*
 you were online for 11.4 hours and grossed $20 per hour in gross fares. We added $18.24 to your account. 
you were online for 21.08 hours and grossed $7.71 per hour in gross fares. We added $106.03 to your account.
So, *with tips, that's $776* ($515 from Uber + another $261 from Lyft) driving only P/T after-work hours (+fri/sat late nights).


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## fork2323 (Aug 27, 2014)

I had one ride today at 2.1 surge where the fair was $86, so I made 68 after uber cut.. you can't say surge makes me less money than no surge


thedarkstar said:


> just go the statement here....
> 
> they paid me just over 200 in guarantees for 300 of fares for a total of 510 Net.
> 
> ...


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

Samename said:


> Ive always found its easy to convince riders to cancel with a phone call.
> 
> Surprisingly I haven't read of Uber relistening to phone calls and using it against a driver. It is of course possible, but they don't have the time for it.
> 
> If you can do those short rides and spend most of your guaranteed time without moving then your operating costs are significantly lower!


When I was talking, er uh emailing a CSR last week about a ride I made mention of them having a record of texts and phone calls. She said she did not have access to that. Not that it does nto exist but at least on that first level no access.


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## thedarkstar (Jan 1, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I paid no attention to the guarantee and I never chase 'surges'.
> So I was surprised to see today that I somehow qualified for the Uber winter incentive stuff.
> 
> Period Ending: January 19, 2015 - Trip Earnings $332.37
> ...


depending on hours you were online, you may have overworked yourself. carefuly keep track of the hours you are working vs number of trips to maximize your earning with minimal effort.
Avoid surges. They dont benefit you.


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## thedarkstar (Jan 1, 2015)

fork2323 said:


> I had one ride today at 2.1 surge where the fair was $86, so I made 68 after uber cut.. you can't say surge makes me less money than no surge


if you make 8 1 mile(4 dollar) trips, that would gross you $32 net and uber would pay you 96-32=64 . Total miles driven=8miles(assuming no dead miles) Total Income=96
if you make 7 1 mile(4 dollar) trips and the 8th trip is your 86 dollar trip thats probably 45 miles, the net you get is 86+28=114 . Total miles driven=47 .Total income=114
Obviously, you made a bi gloss


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## frndthDuvel (Aug 31, 2014)

thedarkstar said:


> depending on hours you were online, you may have overworked yourself. carefuly keep track of the hours you are working vs number of trips to maximize your earning with minimal effort.
> Avoid surges. They dont benefit you.


I have been making a point of starting at the top of the hour and ending on the top of the hour. Perhaps shows more intent to make sure the hours are right when talking to support for missing guarantee, I also figure easier to stay logged on the whole 60 then worrying whether the math is close enough for Ub. Rider doesn't know you did not just pulled up to a long stop light. If I am in a restaurant or gas station. But certainly anxious to see how last weeks acounting went, and whether the amount promised for the missing the first week is included.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

thedarkstar said:


> Avoid surges. They dont benefit you.


You mean like the 20 minute $120 fare I had on New Years Eve with three of the cutest young women I've had the pleasure of talking with in a long time? Or the 15 minute $46 fare I caught last night with two terrific women in town on vacation who tipped me an additional $26? : )


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Samename said:


> Ive always found its easy to convince riders to cancel with a phone call.


Same here.
It hasn't been a problem to get a PAX to cancel. (yet)


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## thedarkstar (Jan 1, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> You mean like the 20 minute $120 fare I had on New Years Eve with three of the cutest young women I've had the pleasure of talking with in a long time? Or the 15 minute $46 fare I caught last night with two terrific women in town on vacation who tipped me an additional $26? : )


If at the time of the surge, the guarantee t hat uber is supposed to pay you is 120, the the 120 you collect in the surge will just go to uber in sense that you will the have 0 guarantee.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

thedarkstar said:


> If at the time of the surge, the guarantee t hat uber is supposed to pay you is 120, the the 120 you collect in the surge will just go to uber in sense that you will the have 0 guarantee.


uh, you do understand that is the point of the guarantee... that it's an incentive to guarantee driver's a minimum of income for a certain level of commitment. I an MORE THAN HAPPY to forgo a $14/hr guarantee in exchange for a $120 20 minute trip.


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## fork2323 (Aug 27, 2014)

thedarkstar said:


> if you make 8 1 mile(4 dollar) trips, that would gross you $32 net and uber would pay you 96-32=64 . Total miles driven=8miles(assuming no dead miles) Total Income=96
> if you make 7 1 mile(4 dollar) trips and the 8th trip is your 86 dollar trip thats probably 45 miles, the net you get is 86+28=114 . Total miles driven=47 .Total income=114
> Obviously, you made a bi gloss


Im a little slow, can you explain how you get all your numbers, the $32 gross and the 96? 8 trips X $2.20 ($4 - 1.80 uber cut)= $17.60 Im really confused where you get the $96 from? Even being online 5 hours X $20 = $100 then minus safe rider fee X8 =$92
Please explain..


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

thedarkstar said:


> just go the statement here....
> 
> they paid me just over 200 in guarantees for 300 of fares for a total of 510 Net.
> 
> ...


I don't advise gaming the system, work as hard as you can, it's the right thing to do.

If everyone games the system, Uber will get wise to what drivers are doing, and stop it. You can bet on it.

I try to book as high as I can, no matter, and I'm only doing $19 per hour. I used to do $40 per hour at $2 per mile, but now it's only $1 per mile.

At this low rate, it's only _auto equity conversion to cash, no significant gain is occurring_. To be profitable, it should be about $40-50 an hour ( in San Diego ).
Every night, deduct your 56 cents a mile IRS deduction, and put it into an auto account, reserved for gas, car maintenance and future car payments/purchases
*What's left is your real earnings.* If you do otherwise, your are operating in delusion city.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Same here.
> It hasn't been a problem to get a PAX to cancel. (yet)


Just talk like your drunk.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> If everyone games the system, Uber will get wise to what drivers are doing, and stop it. You can bet on it.


No shit. Fuber is going to end the guarantees eventually....no matter what. Easy bet for you to win. I'd recommend drivers take FULL advantage of these guarantees while they can before the reality sets in that the recent rate cuts make driving unprofitable and the guarantees are gone.


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## Sweet Ping (Jan 20, 2015)

thedarkstar said:


> just go success e statement here....
> 
> they paid me just over 200 in guarantees for 300 of fares for a total of 510 Net.
> 
> ...


Does anyone know when uber will declear rate cuts a big success and stop offering guarantees?


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> uh, you do understand that is the point of the guarantee... that it's an incentive to guarantee driver's a minimum of income for a certain level of commitment. I an MORE THAN HAPPY to forgo a $14/hr guarantee in exchange for a $120 20 minute trip.


If you have already put in 20 hours at a $12 guarantee and did only 20 $4 fares, your Uber paycheck at this point will be $176.

If you then take that $120 20 minute surge fare, your paycheck after the trip will still be $176. You didn't earn an additional cent from that last trip. In fact you could take another $42 fare and STILL not earn an extra dollar on your paycheck.


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## fork2323 (Aug 27, 2014)

do you work for uber?


Oscar Levant said:


> I don't advise gaming the system, work as hard as you can, it's the right thing to do.
> 
> If everyone games the system, Uber will get wise to what drivers are doing, and stop it. You can bet on it.
> 
> ...


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

thedarkstar said:


> just go the statement here....
> 
> they paid me just over 200 in guarantees for 300 of fares for a total of 510 Net.
> 
> ...


...by George, I think he's got it! Congrats on getting paid.


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## fork2323 (Aug 27, 2014)

there is an option in the cancel ride menu to select "rider requested cancel" I'm assuming this is in cases where the rider called or Texted the driver to cancel. I tried this option for the first time today.. it's not me it's them option.


Samename said:


> Ive always found its easy to convince riders to cancel with a phone call.
> 
> Surprisingly I haven't read of Uber relistening to phone calls and using it against a driver. It is of course possible, but they don't have the time for it.
> 
> If you can do those short rides and spend most of your guaranteed time without moving then your operating costs are significantly lower!


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

fork2323 said:


> there is an option in the cancel ride menu to select "rider requested cancel" I'm assuming this is in cases where the rider called or Texted the driver to cancel. I tried this option for the first time today.. it's not me it's them option.


Still counts as a "Driver Cancel".


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> If you have already put in 20 hours at a $12 guarantee and did only 20 $4 fares, your Uber paycheck at this point will be $176. If you then take that $120 20 minute surge fare, your paycheck after the trip will still be $176. You didn't earn an additional cent from that last trip. In fact you could take another $42 fare and STILL not earn an extra dollar on your paycheck.


Understood, and that makes sense in a market where the average trip is under 2 or 3 miles. But in my market - or at least where I drive in my market - the $4 trip is an exception, not the rule. My Uber fares average around $15 a trip and an additional $3 in cash tips.

For example, on a typical day I get at least 1 or two airport drop-offs. That's 25 minutes and a $38 fare (and 99% of those pay a tip).


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberHammer said:


> Just talk like your drunk.


Ha! "_lemee just down this last beer and I'll be right over..._"
I kinda like that!


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

fork2323 said:


> do you work for uber?


If everyone games the system, Uber will stop the guarantee, which will force me to quit, and I don't want to quit, if I don't have to.

Does this perspective quell the reason you asked this question?


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Understood, and that makes sense in a market where the average trip is under 2 or 3 miles. But in my market - or at least where I drive in my market - the $4 trip is an exception, not the rule. My Uber fares average around $15 a trip and an additional $3 in cash tips.
> 
> For example, on a typical day I get at least 1 or two airport drop-offs. That's 25 minutes and a $38 fare (and 99% of those pay a tip).


In Columbus I can get many $15 trips working the suburbs, but working the suburbs means longer distances to pickup the passenger, and at these rates the deadhead miles KILLS the profitability.

The only way to profit anymore is to go for the guarantee and focus on the inner city spots that produce minimum fares. It keeps mileage to a minimum, and at a 1.0 trip per hour, it turns $4 fares into $12 fares without any additional mileage.

When you do this, getting a long fare is just a waste of miles as it doesn't increase the paycheck at all in the end.


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## uber559 (Dec 25, 2014)

thedarkstar said:


> depending on hours you were online, you may have overworked yourself. carefuly keep track of the hours you are working vs number of trips to maximize your earning with minimal effort.
> Avoid surges. They dont benefit you.


 my question is do you stay logged on for the full 8 hrs you did or you log off once in a while


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## John Anderson (Jan 12, 2015)

All this trying to figure and ponder. You have all of these Uber PR prankster types coming in with billshit stories of what worked for them but they can't exactly say. Sounds like economists who can't say exactly how the economy works or bankers who can't exactly say how banking investments work. 

Read your bible, it describes this cloudy information as devil work. It's time to say byebye and leave it at that.


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## fork2323 (Aug 27, 2014)

everyone won't game the system because most are suckers and never do the math and can't even find this forum.


Oscar Levant said:


> If everyone games the system, Uber will stop the guarantee, which will force me to quit, and I don't want to quit, if I don't have to.
> 
> Does this perspective quell the reason you asked this question?


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## franklin (Apr 21, 2014)

Former Yellow Driver said:


> No shit. Fuber is going to end the guarantees eventually...


Can't find the email, but I thought I read that the guarantee is only thru January???


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> In Columbus I can get many $15 trips working the suburbs, but working the suburbs means longer distances to pickup the passenger, and at these rates the deadhead miles KILLS the profitability.
> 
> The only way to profit anymore is to go for the guarantee and focus on the inner city spots that produce minimum fares. It keeps mileage to a minimum, and at a 1.0 trip per hour, it turns $4 fares into $12 fares without any additional mileage.
> 
> When you do this, getting a long fare is just a waste of miles as it doesn't increase the paycheck at all in the end.


True, but there's nothing wrong with going for quantity of shorts, instead of fewer quality of longs

If I owned the company, I would praise quantity over quality, it demonstrates hard work, not sitting around hoping for the long run.

But, I wouldn't hold back, I would always do my best.

We're all swimming in the same (guarantee) pond, and if you piss in it, well, think about it.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

franklin said:


> Can't find the email, but I thought I read that the guarantee is only thru January???


They'll have to raise the rates if they drop the guarantee, otherwise, I'm outta here.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> True, but there's nothing wrong with going for quantity of shorts, instead of fewer quality of longs
> 
> If I owned the company, I would praise quantity over quality, it demonstrates hard work, not sitting around hoping for the long run.
> 
> ...


Define "do my best".

I define "do my best" as doing what is most profitable for me. And I don't see how getting the fewest and shortest runs needed for the guarantee is me pssing in the pond. If anything, I'm cleaning up the trips those going for big fares don't want.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

If we follow history, first Uber will saturate the market with more drivers to replace the dropouts, and then some, until surge stops.

Once surge stops, then the incentives will stop. This just buys them time to get more drivers onboarded to work for the lower rates.


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