# Signs suggest Uber's back is against the wall and the clock is running fast.



## tomatopaste

*Uber Hopes a New Investment Keeps It Afloat After the First $11.6 Billion*

But when you think about what they really represent, it's more like hearing that a hasty medical procedure is keeping someone alive for now. That's better than a failure, and yet the future is still dark.
Uber depends on shifting operational costs onto others. Even doing so, it's been losing an estimated $2 billion a year, at least over the last couple of years.
That would put any company into dire straits. You need a fat piggy bank to fund all that red ink. Uber has never made a penny in profit as it funded expansion and attempts to push into markets with little regard for regulatory realities or compliance. Instead, the money has flowed like crimson flood waters over worn levies.
In addition, the deal reportedly hinges on a number of conditions, including some of the shares coming at below the current market valuation for Uber. You don't make that kind of deal unless you have to. The signs suggest Uber's back is against the wall and the clock is running fast.
https://www.inc.com/erik-sherman/ub...-keeps-it-afloat-after-first-116-billion.html


----------



## goneubering

tomatopaste said:


> https://www.inc.com/erik-sherman/ub...-keeps-it-afloat-after-first-116-billion.html


Perhaps these big money companies are simply smart and prescient. They know there will be long-term value.


----------



## Fubernuber

goneubering said:


> Perhaps these big money companies are simply smart and prescient. They know there will be long-term value.


Long term value can happen if uber had a turf and i.p. What exactly does uber have in i.p. and what turf do they own? They have exactly the oposite of a good recipe. Vast majority of their riders are very price sensetive and dont care about the quality or name of the ride servicing their account. Uber is ****ed and its only a matter of the next economic downturn to put them out of business. When that happens you will see a fundamental shift in investing. Tech comoanies that dont nake a profit will not be deemed investable and certainly they will not be able to generate money worth countless times more than mature brands.


----------



## goneubering

Fubernuber said:


> Vast majority of their riders are very price sensetive and dont care about the quality or name of the ride servicing their account.
> 
> Uber is &%[email protected]!*ed and its only a matter of the next economic downturn to put them out of business. When that happens you will see a fundamental shift in investing. Tech comoanies that dont nake a profit will not be deemed investable and certainly they will not be able to generate money worth countless times more than mature brands.


What leads you to that conclusion??!! Reading this forum of complainers?? lol


----------



## tomatopaste

goneubering said:


> Perhaps these big money companies are simply smart and prescient. They know there will be long-term value.


Yes companies like Softbank that can afford to take big risks see a potential big payoff, but it's all due to Uber cutting a deal with a self driving car company. None of the potential upside is about Uber turning around their current business model.


----------



## CarterPeerless

The thing that Uber does best is selling bullshit and rainbows to investors, so I'm sure they will be successful in this funding round. I want to believe that investors will someday become sane, but I don't think it will happen any time soon.


----------



## Fubernuber

goneubering said:


> What leads you to that conclusion??!! Reading this forum of complainers?? lol


Driving for them in manhattan and riding with their drivers who dont give two shits about the name of their employer. There is no loyalty in this business of "rideshare". Uber did it to them selves. Their much smaller competitors who focus on quality will survive. Uber (and all other 4 letter words rideshare) is doomed. Lyft will and should be first to fall. Hate that fake "we care about the driver" wolf in sheeps clothing


----------



## PorkRollUberAndCheese

Uber and Lyft has proven that they provide a valued, needed service. The problem is operating it without gushing money.

It shouldn't be this hard yet it is. Who knows why.



Fubernuber said:


> Driving for them in manhattan and riding with their drivers who dont give two shits about the name of their employer. There is no loyalty in this business of "rideshare". Uber did it to them selves. Their much smaller competitors who focus on quality will survive. Uber (and all other 4 letter words rideshare) is doomed. Lyft will and should be first to fall. Hate that fake "we care about the driver" wolf in sheeps clothing


Lyft is running much, much leaner than Uber because they didn't overexpand. If anyone survives, it'll be Lyft.


----------



## goneubering

Fubernuber said:


> Driving for them in manhattan and riding with their drivers who dont give two shits about the name of their employer. There is no loyalty in this business of "rideshare". Uber did it to them selves. Their much smaller competitors who focus on quality will survive. Uber (and all other 4 letter words rideshare) is doomed. Lyft will and should be first to fall. Hate that fake "we care about the driver" wolf in sheeps clothing


You can hate them all you want but the vast majority of my riders love Uber. It's a great service for riders. They're not going anywhere.


----------



## tomatopaste

goneubering said:


> You can hate them all you want but the vast majority of my riders love Uber. It's a great service for riders. They're not going anywhere.


Of course they love it, they're only paying forty percent of the cost. Investors are paying the rest.


----------



## Fubernuber

goneubering said:


> You can hate them all you want but the vast majority of my riders love Uber. It's a great service for riders. They're not going anywhere.


Watch them forget ubers name overnight when apple or google or facebook or ford or gm or whatever company with much deeper pocketts introduces driverless rides below ubers breakeven. Ubers own ambitions for driverless cars will ultimately kill it. You are nuts if you think uber has anything of value besides their large network of dumb drivers


----------



## goneubering

Fubernuber said:


> Watch them forget ubers name overnight when apple or google or facebook or ford or gm or whatever company with much deeper pocketts introduces driverless rides below ubers breakeven. Ubers own ambitions for driverless cars will ultimately kill it. You are nuts if you think uber has anything of value besides their large network of dumb drivers


Sure thing. That's why smart investors value Uber at around $50 billion. They might have a better handle on business than you.


----------



## Fubernuber

goneubering said:


> Sure thing. That's why smart investors value Uber at around $50 billion. They might have a better handle on business than you.


Smart investors dont invest in unproffitable business and they almost never understand the business they are helping to prop up. Yes there are great exceptions but these exceptions have something that uber does not. Turf and intellectual property. So what does uber have that is a barrier to entry? 
How would they have a better handle on it? You disagree with the fact that 99% of what ubers claim to fame is their network of drivers? If tomorow the drivers decide to strike for uber only, where does that leave lyft? Use this analog to the future of driverless cars. Point this out to their investors and watch gloom prevail


----------



## goneubering

Fubernuber said:


> Smart investors dont invest in unproffitable business and they almost never understand the business they are helping to prop up.
> 
> Yes there are great exceptions but these exceptions have something that uber does not. Turf and intellectual property. So what does uber have that is a barrier to entry?
> How would they have a better handle on it? You disagree with the fact that 99% of what ubers claim to fame is their network of drivers? If tomorow the drivers decide to strike for uber only, where does that leave lyft? Use this analog to the future of driverless cars. Point this out to their investors and watch gloom prevail


lol

You can stop digging now.


----------



## Fubernuber

goneubering said:


> lol
> 
> You can stop digging now.


Only a L-----L would talk about stuff they have no experience with. You have no clue do you? You cant even answer my simple question. You can only parrot what you just learned in school. This uber driving thing got you fooled into thinking you are well versed in life. You are on the bottom kid. The future looks bright for you kiddo. Atleast you are a good parrot


----------



## goneubering

Fubernuber said:


> Only a L-----L would talk about stuff they have no experience with. You have no clue do you? You cant even answer my simple question. You can only parrot what you just learned in school


Stop embarrassing yourself.


----------



## tomatopaste

Fubernuber said:


> Smart investors dont invest in unproffitable business and they almost never understand the business they are helping to prop up. Yes there are great exceptions but these exceptions have something that uber does not. Turf and intellectual property. So what does uber have that is a barrier to entry?
> How would they have a better handle on it? You disagree with the fact that 99% of what ubers claim to fame is their network of drivers? If tomorow the drivers decide to strike for uber only, where does that leave lyft? Use this analog to the future of driverless cars. Point this out to their investors and watch gloom prevail


Actually a lot of professional investors do invest in losing companies. Uber had a lot of potential 8 yrs ago, now they're a smoldering pile of dog poop. Only one in ten VC startups make money. Uber became obsolete once self driving cars proved to be real.


----------



## 2Cents

tomatopaste said:


> Of course they love it, they're only paying forty percent of the cost. Investors are paying the rest.


You're correct except the drivers are the ones subsidizing the fares out of pocket for the benefit of the passengers and the rideshare companies, not the investors.


----------



## Fubernuber

tomatopaste said:


> Actually a lot of professional investors do invest in losing companies. Uber had a lot of potential 8 yrs ago, now they're a smoldering pile of dog poop. Only one in ten VC startups make money. Uber became obsolete once self driving cars proved to be real.


Read my entire post. I dont doubt investors invest in profit-less companies. The difference with uber unlike the rest is lack of i.p. and turf. What does uber have besides their million drivers?



goneubering said:


> Stop embarrassing yourself.


Parrot boy is right. You beat me with experience after i sunk to your level


----------



## tomatopaste

Fubernuber said:


> Watch them forget ubers name overnight when apple or google or facebook or ford or gm or whatever company with much deeper pocketts introduces driverless rides below ubers breakeven. Ubers own ambitions for driverless cars will ultimately kill it. You are nuts if you think uber has anything of value besides their large network of dumb drivers


Uber never had anything but a good idea and an app. Both were easily duplicated. Uber should have made money from day one and expanded from there instead of trying to corner the entire worldwide taxi market with simply a good idea and an app.



2Cents said:


> You're correct except the drivers are the ones subsidizing the fares out of pocket for the benefit of the passengers and the rideshare companies, not the investors.


Both drivers and investors are subsidizing fares. Without investor cash, Uber'd be toast years ago.


----------



## 2Cents

tomatopaste said:


> Uber never had anything but a good idea and an app. Both were easily duplicated. Uber should have made money from day one and expanded from there instead of trying to corner the entire worldwide taxi market with simply a good idea and an app.
> 
> Both drivers and investors are subsidizing fares. Without investor cash, Uber'd be toast years ago.


I'm talking about the ride it self, not operations.
Drivers have no control over a ride share's operational costs and could care less.


----------



## freeFromUber

tomatopaste said:


> Yes companies like Softbank that can afford to take big risks see a potential big payoff, but it's all due to Uber cutting a deal with a self driving car company. None of the potential upside is about Uber turning around their current business model.


Self driving cars are a minimum of 10 years away, at best. FUber can't wait that long to be profitable


----------



## tomatopaste

freeFromUber said:


> Self driving cars are a minimum of 10 years away, at best. FUber can't wait that long to be profitable


Really?




Does the rock you live under have internet access?


----------



## CarterPeerless

Promotional Video:

Scene 1 - Pre-selected, well behaved people enter the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.

Scene 2 - Vehicles automatically stroll around low-traffic suburbia at sub-highway speeds.

Scene 3 - Pre-selected, well behaved people exit the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.

Real life:

Scene 1 - Group of drunkards send texts to automatic vehicle giving the gate code and building number to the apartment complex. After 30 minutes, pax figures out that the car can't get in so he and his seven friends go to the gate and overstuffs the vehicle. Vehicle senses the overload and won't move. Some pax exit, while clandestinely slashing the back of the seats.

Scene 2 - Vehicle putters along on surface streets to the pax's drug dealer who is also behind an apartment gate. Pax is pissed because the seats are wet - the last group was coming from a pool party. At least he will get to keep the wallet he found in the backseat. Vehicle moves on to stop 2

Scene 3 - Vehicle is stopped by a pedestrian that will not move until the pax "Pays a toll" to his partner standing at the window. Pax has no money left after buying his drugs so the toll taker busts off the front left Lidar and runs.

Scene 4 - Pax shoots up in the vehicle on the way to a house party and passes out. A used needle is lodged in the seat cushions. GPS instructions send the vehicle down a dirt alleyway that dead-ends before the next road. Pax's guests draw penises on pax and the interior of the vehicle, leave the stopped vehicle and walk to the party on foot. While exiting, pax's guests damage the automatic door assembly and pull off a piece of weatherstripping.

Scene 5 - Vehicle is towed back to the Chandler warehouse for cleaning and repair. Waymo's legal team tries to track down pax but the account was created with a fake ID, stolen credit card and a burn phone.


----------



## Jo3030

This is EXCELLENT CarterPeerless


----------



## MoreTips

CarterPeerless said:


> Promotional Video:
> 
> Scene 1 - Pre-selected, well behaved people enter the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.
> 
> Scene 2 - Vehicles automatically stroll around low-traffic suburbia at sub-highway speeds.
> 
> Scene 3 - Pre-selected, well behaved people exit the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.
> 
> Real life:
> 
> Scene 1 - Group of drunkards send texts to automatic vehicle giving the gate code and building number to the apartment complex. After 30 minutes, pax figures out that the car can't get in so he and his seven friends go to the gate and overstuffs the vehicle. Vehicle senses the overload and won't move. Some pax exit, while clandestinely slashing the back of the seats.
> 
> Scene 2 - Vehicle putters along on surface streets to the pax's drug dealer who is also behind an apartment gate. Pax is pissed because the seats are wet - the last group was coming from a pool party. At least he will get to keep the wallet he found in the backseat. Vehicle moves on to stop 2
> 
> Scene 3 - Vehicle is stopped by a pedestrian that will not move until the pax "Pays a toll" to his partner standing at the window. Pax has no money left after buying his drugs so the toll taker busts off the front left Lidar and runs.
> 
> Scene 4 - Pax shoots up in the vehicle on the way to a house party and passes out. A used needle is lodged in the seat cushions. GPS instructions send the vehicle down a dirt alleyway that dead-ends before the next road. Pax's guests draw penises on pax and the interior of the vehicle, leave the stopped vehicle and walk to the party on foot. While exiting, pax's guests damage the automatic door assembly and pull off a piece of weatherstripping.
> 
> Scene 5 - Vehicle is towed back to the Chandler warehouse for cleaning and repair. Waymo's legal team tries to track down pax but the account was created with a fake ID, stolen credit card and a burn phone.


Thank you I needed some happy thoughts tonight.

Uber is just 1 rideshare startup (with serious investors) away from being compromised. The new startup allows drivers to keep all but 15 percent of the fares and every driver is now interested. Now the drivers are recruiting the riders from the other companies. Drivers can't wait to jump ship.


----------



## tomatopaste

CarterPeerless said:


> Promotional Video:
> 
> Scene 1 - Pre-selected, well behaved people enter the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.
> 
> Scene 2 - Vehicles automatically stroll around low-traffic suburbia at sub-highway speeds.
> 
> Scene 3 - Pre-selected, well behaved people exit the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.
> 
> Real life:
> 
> Scene 1 - Group of drunkards send texts to automatic vehicle giving the gate code and building number to the apartment complex. After 30 minutes, pax figures out that the car can't get in so he and his seven friends go to the gate and overstuffs the vehicle. Vehicle senses the overload and won't move. Some pax exit, while clandestinely slashing the back of the seats.
> 
> Scene 2 - Vehicle putters along on surface streets to the pax's drug dealer who is also behind an apartment gate. Pax is pissed because the seats are wet - the last group was coming from a pool party. At least he will get to keep the wallet he found in the backseat. Vehicle moves on to stop 2
> 
> Scene 3 - Vehicle is stopped by a pedestrian that will not move until the pax "Pays a toll" to his partner standing at the window. Pax has no money left after buying his drugs so the toll taker busts off the front left Lidar and runs.
> 
> Scene 4 - Pax shoots up in the vehicle on the way to a house party and passes out. A used needle is lodged in the seat cushions. GPS instructions send the vehicle down a dirt alleyway that dead-ends before the next road. Pax's guests draw penises on pax and the interior of the vehicle, leave the stopped vehicle and walk to the party on foot. While exiting, pax's guests damage the automatic door assembly and pull off a piece of weatherstripping.
> 
> Scene 5 - Vehicle is towed back to the Chandler warehouse for cleaning and repair. Waymo's legal team tries to track down pax but the account was created with a fake ID, stolen credit card and a burn phone.


Scene 6: GM's Cruise, driving at night in downtown SF with zero human interaction.






Scene 7: Waymo's army of self driving Chrysler Pacifica mini vans poised to roll over every Uber driver in Phoenix.










Scene 8: Every Uber driver in Phoenix


----------



## Rakos

Looks like times up...

Anybody taking odds...

On Ubers survival after this hack...???

Rakos


----------



## CarterPeerless

Rakos said:


> Looks like times up...
> 
> Anybody taking odds...
> 
> On Ubers survival after this hack...???
> 
> Rakos
> View attachment 177848
> View attachment 177849


Has any hack taken down a major company? Equifax, Target, Sony, Home Depot, JP Morgan, Deloitte, Verizon, Yahoo, Scottrade, Walmart, Snapchat... These things are quickly forgotten.


----------



## Rakos

CarterPeerless said:


> Has any hack taken down a major company? Equifax, Target, Sony, Home Depot, JP Morgan, Deloitte, Verizon, Yahoo, Scottrade, Walmart, Snapchat... These things are quickly forgotten.


It will kind of depend...

They admitted it during the holiday...

Hoping it will be forgotten...

Monkeys have good memories...

Rakos


----------



## Jo3030

They aren't forgotten for the class action lawsuits.
Always one way to get them in the pocket books.


----------



## Rakos

Jo3030 said:


> They aren't forgotten for the class action lawsuits.
> Always one way to get them in the pocket books.


For the past three years...

They have gotten more and more...

Into my pocketbook...

Why shouldn't I get into theirs...?

Rakos


----------



## Jo3030

Oh, you'll be able to! 

Trust me on that.


----------



## tomatopaste

CarterPeerless said:


> Has any hack taken down a major company? Equifax, Target, Sony, Home Depot, JP Morgan, Deloitte, Verizon, Yahoo, Scottrade, Walmart, Snapchat... These things are quickly forgotten.


You're implying it would be easy to hack into self driving cars and run them into a schoolyard full of children. Not possible. Why aren't terrorists hacking into airliners and causing them to spin out of control? Why aren't airliners falling out of the sky on a daily basis?


----------



## Rakos

tomatopaste said:


> You're implying it would be easy to hack into self driving cars and run them into a schoolyard full of children. Not possible. Why aren't terrorists hacking into airliners and causing them to spin out of control? Why aren't airliners falling out of the sky on a daily basis?


Easy...there is still a REAL person...

At the wheel...

Rakos


----------



## New2This

CarterPeerless said:


> Promotional Video:
> 
> Scene 1 - Pre-selected, well behaved people enter the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.
> 
> Scene 2 - Vehicles automatically stroll around low-traffic suburbia at sub-highway speeds.
> 
> Scene 3 - Pre-selected, well behaved people exit the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.
> 
> Real life:
> 
> Scene 1 - Group of drunkards send texts to automatic vehicle giving the gate code and building number to the apartment complex. After 30 minutes, pax figures out that the car can't get in so he and his seven friends go to the gate and overstuffs the vehicle. Vehicle senses the overload and won't move. Some pax exit, while clandestinely slashing the back of the seats.
> 
> Scene 2 - Vehicle putters along on surface streets to the pax's drug dealer who is also behind an apartment gate. Pax is pissed because the seats are wet - the last group was coming from a pool party. At least he will get to keep the wallet he found in the backseat. Vehicle moves on to stop 2
> 
> Scene 3 - Vehicle is stopped by a pedestrian that will not move until the pax "Pays a toll" to his partner standing at the window. Pax has no money left after buying his drugs so the toll taker busts off the front left Lidar and runs.
> 
> Scene 4 - Pax shoots up in the vehicle on the way to a house party and passes out. A used needle is lodged in the seat cushions. GPS instructions send the vehicle down a dirt alleyway that dead-ends before the next road. Pax's guests draw penises on pax and the interior of the vehicle, leave the stopped vehicle and walk to the party on foot. While exiting, pax's guests damage the automatic door assembly and pull off a piece of weatherstripping.
> 
> Scene 5 - Vehicle is towed back to the Chandler warehouse for cleaning and repair. Waymo's legal team tries to track down pax but the account was created with a fake ID, stolen credit card and a burn phone.


That is frigging brilliant.

You can see into the future clearly


----------



## tomatopaste

Rakos said:


> Easy...there is still a REAL person...
> 
> At the wheel...
> 
> Rakos
> View attachment 177881


If a terrorist hacks into the autopilot of an airliner and flips the plane over, exactly what is the pilot going to do?


----------



## CarterPeerless

tomatopaste said:


> You're implying it would be easy to hack into self driving cars and run them into a schoolyard full of children. Not possible. Why aren't terrorists hacking into airliners and causing them to spin out of control? Why aren't airliners falling out of the sky on a daily basis?


I don't think you understood my point. Wasn't talking about hacking into a vehicle. I was saying that companies get hacked all the time, get data stolen, and they survive.


----------



## PorkRollUberAndCheese

tomatopaste said:


> If a terrorist hacks into the autopilot of an airliner and flips the plane over, exactly what is the pilot going to do?


Call Denzel Washington.


----------



## tomatopaste

CarterPeerless said:


> I don't think you understood my point. Wasn't talking about hacking into a vehicle. I was saying that companies get hacked all the time, get data stolen, and they survive.


Ok, I'll let it go this time. But I'm watching you.


----------



## Johnny Driver

Stop all the non-income producing projects like flying uber cars and unmanned cars.


----------



## dirtylee

tomatopaste said:


> Why aren't terrorists hacking into airliners and causing them to spin out of control? Why aren't airliners falling out of the sky on a daily basis?


Pilots fly planes & set the autopilot. Flight controls are not set up to be interactive from the internet/network/etc.

This would be a very real possibility if no pilots & networked flight controls.

So yeah flying unpiloted taxi aren't going to be a thing. Imagine the shit storm if a "Vegas" shooter used one.


----------



## tomatopaste

_Flight controls are not set up to be interactive from the internet/network/etc._

Car controls are not set up to be interactive from the internet/network/etc.

_So yeah flying unpiloted taxi aren't going to be a thing. Imagine the shit storm if a "Vegas" shooter used one.
_
So yeah unpiloted taxis not only are going to be a thing, they already are. Imagine the shit storm if SpongeBob lived in a coconut instead of a pineapple.


----------



## AllenChicago

PorkRollUberAndCheese said:


> Uber and Lyft has proven that they provide a valued, needed service. The problem is operating it without gushing money.
> 
> It shouldn't be this hard yet it is. Who knows why.
> 
> Lyft is running much, much leaner than Uber because they didn't overexpand. If anyone survives, it'll be Lyft.


I don't know about other parts of the country, but here in the Chicago area, Uber/Lyft could increase their fares and still be a bargain. Instead, they're focusing on having ultra-low fares and cutting expenses by reducing our pay, instead of looking at the BIG picture. It's a small minded tunnel-vision syndrome.


----------



## jonhjax

I doubt if the current investors will stay with uber in the long term, at least most of their money won't. Uber does an IPO and the investors sell most of their stock and make big, big profits. Yes, they might not sell all of their stock, but my guess is they sell a large majority of it, say 65-90%.


----------



## tomatopaste

goneubering said:


> Perhaps these big money companies are simply smart and prescient. They know there will be long-term value.


"Perhaps these big money companies are simply smart and prescient. They know there will be long-term value. Then again, there have been some pretty big failures in the past, like the entire global meltdown that showed how badly financial cleverness can falter."


----------



## tohunt4me

goneubering said:


> Perhaps these big money companies are simply smart and prescient. They know there will be long-term value.


Sometimes companies are taken over because the sum of the value of their parts exceeds the value of the whole.


----------



## PorkRollUberAndCheese

AllenChicago said:


> I don't know about other parts of the country, but here in the Chicago area, Uber/Lyft could increase their fares and still be a bargain. Instead, they're focusing on having ultra-low fares and cutting expenses by reducing our pay, instead of looking at the BIG picture. It's a small minded tunnel-vision syndrome.


In New Jersey, there are two different price zones. Now, in most of the country where the price disparity is at most, 10 to 15 cents a mile between in-state markets, in New Jersey, the price difference is nearly DOUBLE. This creates a situation where the big money area is FLOODED with drivers yet the rest of the state can be underserved.

The easiest solution for this is one uniform price across NJ with looser surge algorithms in the big money area, but that would be a simple solution and we can't have that.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

tomatopaste said:


> _Flight controls are not set up to be interactive from the internet/network/etc._
> 
> Car controls are not set up to be interactive from the internet/network/etc.
> 
> _So yeah flying unpiloted taxi aren't going to be a thing. Imagine the shit storm if a "Vegas" shooter used one.
> _
> So yeah unpiloted taxis not only are going to be a thing, they already are. Imagine the shit storm if SpongeBob lived in a coconut instead of a pineapple.


Interesting example.
SpongeBob is a cartoon.


----------



## tohunt4me

tomatopaste said:


> Of course they love it, they're only paying forty percent of the cost. Investors are paying the rest.


Thankfully
Uber has Not destroyed enough infrastructure to Merit Government Subsidy.


----------



## kcdrvr15

goneubering said:


> Sure thing. That's why smart investors value Uber at around $50 billion. They might have a better handle on business than you.


These smart investors are eyeing a different bird than ride share...


----------



## tohunt4me

kcdrvr15 said:


> These smart investors are eyeing a different bird than ride share...


Bingo !

Uber has become a Tool

Its not I.M.F. INTERNATIONAL monetary fund for nothing.

Globalists Gonna Global !

Meet " the Owners of America"- George Carlin told you about decades ago.

Has everyone been paying ATTENTION ?


----------



## kcdrvr15

tomatopaste said:


> You're implying it would be easy to hack into self driving cars and run them into a schoolyard full of children. Not possible. Why aren't terrorists hacking into airliners and causing them to spin out of control? Why aren't airliners falling out of the sky on a daily basis?


Because they have not 1. But 2 pilots in cockpit.


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Interesting example.
> SpongeBob is a cartoon.


Really?


----------



## Strange Fruit

2Cents said:


> You're correct except the drivers are the ones subsidizing the fares out of pocket for the benefit of the passengers and the rideshare companies, not the investors.


No. Uber pays some of us more than we bring in. That 40% is from like 2 years ago and the lane forum folk tend to stick to some number they read 2 years ago. But I doubt u really know either. It's better to stick to what you know in life. Or learn before sharing. But don't just make baselss assertions.


----------



## 2Cents

Strange Fruit said:


> No. Uber pays some of us more than we bring in. That 40% is from like 2 years ago and the lane forum folk tend to stick to some number they read 2 years ago. But I doubt u really know either. It's better to stick to what you know in life. Or learn before sharing. But don't just make baselss assertions.


They pay some it as far as customer acquisition giving free rides and paying the driver... in that sense yes but I'm talking market specifically.
And how does fübr pay their fines... well they just offer riders in empovrished areas a discount who are trying to get to work and the driver picks up some of that. Oh and before you ask me to learn, it's well documented so I'm not the one that needs to learn.. so why don't you get back to your overpaying corporate job and help suckers, I mean drivers sign up and help them get their documents uploaded. As long as they keep paying you, who cares if your employer is breaking the law.

#fübrn


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

tomatopaste said:


> Really?
> View attachment 178041


You're not making yourself credible yet.


----------



## THE MAN!

Uber will most likely fail? If only for the reason they attempted to scale this to a degree there unable. With Soft Banks possible investment, to date approximately 25 billion invested in Uber. Equals major PROFITS needed! Just don't see it.


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You're not making yourself credible yet.


Or am I so credible that your entire world is just crashing down all around you?


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

tomatopaste said:


> Or am I so credible that your entire world is just crashing down all around you?


Definitely not.


----------



## pomegranite112

Uber just bought 24,000 cars. This is their hail mary. If it fails, investors will prlly back out. The tech is still behind but they seem to be panicing and they should be.


----------



## Rakos

This is where it is decided....Uber real...

Whether you're sitting on the elephant...

Or the elephant is sitting on you...8>)

Rakos


----------



## Jo3030

pomegranite112 said:


> Uber just bought 24,000 cars. This is their hail mary. If it fails, investors will prlly back out. The tech is still behind but they seem to be panicing and they should be.


More scams from the scam artists.


----------



## tomatopaste

pomegranite112 said:


> Uber just bought 24,000 cars. This is their hail mary. If it fails, investors will prlly back out. The tech is still behind but they seem to be panicing and they should be.


Uber didn't buy anything, it's a non binding deal. In other words, no contract was signed and no money was put down to hold the cars. It's one hundred percent PR BS.


----------



## Taxi Driver in Arizona

goneubering said:


> Sure thing. That's why smart investors value Uber at around $50 billion. They might have a better handle on business than you.


I remember when everybody thought that Enron was run by "the smartest guys in the room".

Everybody's right until they're wrong.


----------



## pomegranite112

tomatopaste said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does the rock you live under have internet access?


The biggest issue with autonomous driving is not the system but other drivers on the road. As a person, I can make quick decisions to avoid a speeder or some guy who accidentally hit a red light and wasn't paying attention. I can dodge ppl merging into my lane like loose cannons. I can stop an extra 3 seconds at a 4 way stop sign if a car doesn't want to stop. The issue is, an autonomous driver just doesnt have the ability to adapt to these situations. A self driving car is best in a world with millions of other self driving car and i dont see it happening anytime soon.

Personally id never get in one but who knows

Uber needs a reality check


----------



## tomatopaste

pomegranite112 said:


> The biggest issue with autonomous driving is not the system but other drivers on the road. As a person, I can make quick decisions to avoid a speeder or some guy who accidentally hit a red light and wasn't paying attention. I can dodge ppl merging into my lane like loose cannons. I can stop an extra 3 seconds at a 4 way stop sign if a car doesn't want to stop. The issue is, an autonomous driver just doesnt have the ability to adapt to these situations. A self driving car is best in a world with millions of other self driving car and i dont see it happening anytime soon.
> 
> Personally id never get in one but who knows
> 
> Uber needs a reality check


A self driving car can make quicker decisions. They don't have blind spots, never get tired, drunk, old, distracted or have a heart attack while driving. Google has over 3 million self driving miles on everyday roads and have never caused an accident.

They never caused an accident when the safety driver was behind the wheel. They haven't caused and accident in the last 3 weeks since the safety driver was pulled out and moved to the seat behind the driver. And they won't cause an accident when they're moved entirely from the car and into the command center.

A self driving car *IS* best in a world with millions of other self driving cars, but even driving alongside human drivers it doesn't cause accidents. Bob Lutz, former VP of GM, says societies will someday wake up and realize all the accidents are being caused by the remaining human drivers and then give everyone five years to pull their cars of the road. I think Bob is right.


----------



## Rakos

which company does TP work for...?

Is he a REAL person or a BOT?

Getting hard to tell any more...8>O

Rakos


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Rakos said:


> which company does TP work for...?
> 
> Is he a REAL person or a BOT?
> 
> Getting hard to tell any more...8>O
> 
> Rakos
> View attachment 178492


THE WORLD IS READY FOR ROBOT MONKEYS


----------



## brianboru

Fubernuber said:


> Watch them forget ubers name overnight when apple or google or facebook or ford or gm or whatever company with much deeper pocketts introduces driverless rides below ubers breakeven. Ubers own ambitions for driverless cars will ultimately kill it. You are nuts if you think uber has anything of value besides their large network of dumb drivers


I am anxiously waiting for Uber to go public so I can short it or buy puts on it. The sooner they go public the better.



CarterPeerless said:


> Promotional Video:
> 
> Scene 1 - Pre-selected, well behaved people enter the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.
> 
> Scene 2 - Vehicles automatically stroll around low-traffic suburbia at sub-highway speeds.
> 
> Scene 3 - Pre-selected, well behaved people exit the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.
> 
> Real life:
> 
> Scene 1 - Group of drunkards send texts to automatic vehicle giving the gate code and building number to the apartment complex. After 30 minutes, pax figures out that the car can't get in so he and his seven friends go to the gate and overstuffs the vehicle. Vehicle senses the overload and won't move. Some pax exit, while clandestinely slashing the back of the seats.
> 
> Scene 2 - Vehicle putters along on surface streets to the pax's drug dealer who is also behind an apartment gate. Pax is pissed because the seats are wet - the last group was coming from a pool party. At least he will get to keep the wallet he found in the backseat. Vehicle moves on to stop 2
> 
> Scene 3 - Vehicle is stopped by a pedestrian that will not move until the pax "Pays a toll" to his partner standing at the window. Pax has no money left after buying his drugs so the toll taker busts off the front left Lidar and runs.
> 
> Scene 4 - Pax shoots up in the vehicle on the way to a house party and passes out. A used needle is lodged in the seat cushions. GPS instructions send the vehicle down a dirt alleyway that dead-ends before the next road. Pax's guests draw penises on pax and the interior of the vehicle, leave the stopped vehicle and walk to the party on foot. While exiting, pax's guests damage the automatic door assembly and pull off a piece of weatherstripping.
> 
> Scene 5 - Vehicle is towed back to the Chandler warehouse for cleaning and repair. Waymo's legal team tries to track down pax but the account was created with a fake ID, stolen credit card and a burn phone.


You got one thing wrong. The seats are wet in Scene 2 because a pax pissed themselves.


----------



## tomatopaste

Rakos said:


> which company does TP work for...?
> 
> Is he a REAL person or a BOT?
> 
> Getting hard to tell any more...8>O
> 
> Rakos
> View attachment 178492


Half human, half bot, half tomato. It's hard to say, but he is damn good. I doubt any one company could afford him.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

tomatopaste said:


> Half human, half bot, half tomato. It's hard to say, but he is damn good. I doubt any one company could afford him.


And bad at fractions.


----------



## Fubernuber

brianboru said:


> I am anxiously waiting for Uber to go public so I can short it or buy puts on it. The sooner they go public the better.
> 
> You got one thing wrong. The seats are wet in Scene 2 because a pax pissed themselves.


You have to remember they have millions of people who will be betting against you. Shorting their ipo is no sure thing and likely may turn against you for the wrong reasons. If you buy puts make sure they are far into the future. It may take years for stock buyers to realize this dollarvan of a company had nothing and never had anything but millions of drivers. Even the notion of replacing drivers for driverless cars is a ploy for funding. Without drivers they lost the only barrier to entry into this business. Use juno in nyc as a perfect example of how to chop ubers legs off.


----------



## pomegranite112

tomatopaste said:


> A self driving car can makes quicker decisions. They don't have blind spots, never get tired, drunk, old, distracted or have a heart attack while driving. Google has over 3 million self driving miles on everyday roads and have never caused an accident.
> 
> They never caused an accident when the safety driver was behind the wheel. They haven't caused and accident in the last 3 weeks since the safety driver was pulled out and moved to the seat behind the driver. And they won't cause an accident when they're moved entirely from the car and into the command center.
> 
> A self driving car *IS* best in a world with millions of other self driving cars, but even driving alongside human drivers it doesn't cause accidents. Bob Lutz, former VP of GM, says societies will someday wake up and realize all the accidents are being caused by the remaining human drivers and then give everyone five years to pull their cars of the road. I think Bob is right.


You need to check your facts and get off the hash


----------



## tomatopaste

pomegranite112 said:


> You need to check your facts and get off the hash


No, you need to check my facts and point out where I'm wrong.


----------



## pomegranite112

tomatopaste said:


> No, you need to check my facts and point out where I'm wrong.


It can't react faster than a human. Don't be dumb

Also my phone glitches. My computer glitches.

What happens when a self driving car glitches going 70 mph? Are you ready for that?

Also these machines drive based on sensors, radar and gps. What happens when there's a storm and reads the road wrong? Ive def had it when my gps has bugged out. What happens when a family gets in one of these expensive machines and it reads the road wrong in a rainstorm. Now you have a dead family


----------



## Rakos

pomegranite112 said:


> It can't react faster than a human. Don't be dumb
> 
> Also my phone glitches. My computer glitches.
> 
> What happens when a self driving car glitches going 70 mph? Are you ready for that?
> 
> Also these machines drive based on sensors, radar and gps. What happens when there's a storm and reads the road wrong? Ive def had it when my gps has bugged out. What happens when a family gets in one of these expensive machines and it reads the road wrong in a rainstorm. Now you have a dead family


You know the Challenger shuttle...

Had triple redundant systems..

And yet we lost a crew...

of HIGHLY trained individuals...

That were TOTALLY at the mercy...

Of a FULLY AUTOMATED spaceship...

Kind of makes ya think... doesn't it...???

Rakos








PS. Anyone notice that monkeys stopped going into space...duh!?


----------



## tomatopaste

pomegranite112 said:


> It can't react faster than a human. Don't be dumb
> 
> Also my phone glitches. My computer glitches.
> 
> What happens when a self driving car glitches going 70 mph? Are you ready for that?
> 
> Also these machines drive based on sensors, radar and gps. What happens when there's a storm and reads the road wrong? Ive def had it when my gps has bugged out. What happens when a family gets in one of these expensive machines and it reads the road wrong in a rainstorm. Now you have a dead family


The time it takes you to recognize a threat and slam on the brakes is many many times greater than the reaction time of a self driving car.

Self driving cars have redundant systems to deal with possible malfunctions. In the many millions of miles SDC's have driven on everyday roads, they've never caused an accident. Never.

SDC's don't use GPS but onboard 3D maps. Their combination of sensors see far better in storms than humans do. You're referring to the reaction time it takes humans to take back control from an auto-assist self driving system. Google realized auto-assist systems would never be safe and put all their efforts into fully autonomous driving.


----------



## Rakos

tomatopaste said:


> The time it takes you to recognize a threat and slam on the brakes is many many times greater than the reaction time of a self driving car.
> 
> Self driving cars have redundant systems to deal with possible malfunctions. In the many millions of miles SDC's have driven on everyday roads, they've never caused an accident. Never.
> 
> SDC's don't use GPS but onboard 3D maps. Their combination of sensors see far better in storms than humans do. You're referring to the reaction time it takes humans to take back control from an auto-assist self driving system. Google realized auto-assist systems would never be safe and put all their efforts into fully autonomous driving.


I started working in robotics in the 80's...

We figured 10 years and all factories...

Would be fully automated...

Boy...were we wrong!

Rakos


----------



## pomegranite112

tomatopaste said:


> The time it takes you to recognize a threat and slam on the brakes is many many times greater than the reaction time of a self driving car.
> 
> Self driving cars have redundant systems to deal with possible malfunctions. In the many millions of miles SDC's have driven on everyday roads, they've never caused an accident. Never.
> 
> SDC's don't use GPS but onboard 3D maps. Their combination of sensors see far better in storms than humans do. You're referring to the reaction time it takes humans to take back control from an auto-assist self driving system. Google realized auto-assist systems would never be safe and put all their efforts into fully autonomous driving.


Your full of crap. Us drivers are gonna put nails under the tires. Lets see how they like that


----------



## tomatopaste

pomegranite112 said:


> Your full of crap. Us drivers are gonna put nails under the tires. Lets see how they like that


A gang of self driving cars is going to do donuts on your front lawn at 3 in the morning. Let's see how you like that.


----------



## tomatopaste

Rakos said:


> You know the Challenger shuttle...
> 
> Had triple redundant systems..
> 
> And yet we lost a crew...
> 
> of HIGHLY trained individuals...
> 
> That were TOTALLY at the mercy...
> 
> Of a FULLY AUTOMATED spaceship...
> 
> Kind of makes ya think... doesn't it...???
> 
> Rakos
> View attachment 178547
> 
> PS. Anyone notice that monkeys stopped going into space...duh!?


Strapping yourself onto a bomb is inherently more dangerous than riding in a self driving car. Statistics bear that out. One in one hundred shuttle flights blew up. Zero accidents in over 3.5 million miles.


----------



## cratter

Haven't read all the replies, but Uber likely realizes any moment now Google and Facebook, with their incredible amount of cash and market reach, could squash them. 

Google and Facebook would basically have to spend zero on advertising to get new riders (and they already know where to find the drivers). Uber is desperately trying to make itself into a brand real quick (part of the SDC is free advertising) because they know they have no protection from competitors and the entry to market is relatively low. 

Now that Lyft and Uber have done all the heavy lifting of government regulations, getting full time drivers on the road, having passengers become use to "strangers" picking them up....its ripe for the pickings!


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

tomatopaste said:


> A gang of self driving cars is going to do donuts on your front lawn at 3 in the morning. Let's see how you like that.


Once my security system videos this assault upon my property in hi def, the lawsuit should be fabulous.


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Once my security system videos this assault upon my property in hi def, the lawsuit should be fabulous.


Seriously? Who do you think you're dealing with? Atlas will have taken out your security system long before the cars get there.


----------



## UberDiaz

Fubernuber said:


> Driving for them in manhattan and riding with their drivers who dont give two shits about the name of their employer. There is no loyalty in this business of "rideshare". Uber did it to them selves. Their much smaller competitors who focus on quality will survive. Uber (and all other 4 letter words rideshare) is doomed. Lyft will and should be first to fall. Hate that fake "we care about the driver" wolf in sheeps clothing


True, ubet and lyft run the same game. They are so alike that they both have the same promotions/incentives since they just copy each other lol



tomatopaste said:


> Uber never had anything but a good idea and an app. Both were easily duplicated. Uber should have made money from day one and expanded from there instead of trying to corner the entire worldwide taxi market with simply a good idea and an app.
> 
> Both drivers and investors are subsidizing fares. Without investor cash, Uber'd be toast years ago.


This is an accurate statement. They have to raise rates inevitably but they are too concerned trying to take over the world right now.


----------



## roadman

must be some nice looking revenue and profit projections and some pretty graphs somewhere.


----------



## Rakos

roadman said:


> must be some nice looking revenue and profit projections and some pretty graphs somewhere.


That's the stuff that...

New drivers catch on to...

That makes them think...

I found a gold mine...!

Rakos








PS. Thank goodness most catch on...butt...some of us never learn...


----------



## ShinyAndChrome

I still don't understand that a company with this revenue and having drivers absorb all the big capital costs and overhead can't make money.


----------



## Rakos

ShinyAndChrome said:


> I still don't understand that a company with this revenue and having drivers absorb all the big capital costs and overhead can't make money.


The problem is...

You and I are not in the "Ivy League" class...

They spend money like water...

$100,000 to them is chump change...

Right now they are laughing out loud...

That "they" can get "us" ...

To drive "our" cars into the ground...

For pennies on the mile....

And sell our time for a pitance...

While smoking their fresh Cuban cigars...

Of course monkeys are occasionally wrong...

Butt...not too often...8>)

Rakos


----------



## excel2345

CarterPeerless said:


> Promotional Video:
> 
> Scene 1 - Pre-selected, well behaved people enter the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.
> 
> Scene 2 - Vehicles automatically stroll around low-traffic suburbia at sub-highway speeds.
> 
> Scene 3 - Pre-selected, well behaved people exit the vehicle in their suburban, un-gated neighborhood.
> 
> Real life:
> 
> Scene 1 - Group of drunkards send texts to automatic vehicle giving the gate code and building number to the apartment complex. After 30 minutes, pax figures out that the car can't get in so he and his seven friends go to the gate and overstuffs the vehicle. Vehicle senses the overload and won't move. Some pax exit, while clandestinely slashing the back of the seats.
> 
> Scene 2 - Vehicle putters along on surface streets to the pax's drug dealer who is also behind an apartment gate. Pax is pissed because the seats are wet - the last group was coming from a pool party. At least he will get to keep the wallet he found in the backseat. Vehicle moves on to stop 2
> 
> Scene 3 - Vehicle is stopped by a pedestrian that will not move until the pax "Pays a toll" to his partner standing at the window. Pax has no money left after buying his drugs so the toll taker busts off the front left Lidar and runs.
> 
> Scene 4 - Pax shoots up in the vehicle on the way to a house party and passes out. A used needle is lodged in the seat cushions. GPS instructions send the vehicle down a dirt alleyway that dead-ends before the next road. Pax's guests draw penises on pax and the interior of the vehicle, leave the stopped vehicle and walk to the party on foot. While exiting, pax's guests damage the automatic door assembly and pull off a piece of weatherstripping.
> 
> Scene 5 - Vehicle is towed back to the Chandler warehouse for cleaning and repair. Waymo's legal team tries to track down pax but the account was created with a fake ID, stolen credit card and a burn phone.


Scene 6 - Drunk see's a self driving Uber coming, steps off curb, Uber stops, steps back onto curb, Uber goes, steps back off curb, Uber stops, rinse repeat indefinitely.


----------



## Fubernuber

ShinyAndChrome said:


> I still don't understand that a company with this revenue and having drivers absorb all the big capital costs and overhead can't make money.


It takes alot of money to service each fare they take. Not in terms of help or customer service. It terms of lawsuits and lobying politicians. They expand into a market, spend millions then are forced out or change the game entirely in their favor. Few years go by and the local governing body realizes that uber is bad for everyone the the game changes again. Livery is a business that can not and should not be on a global scale. When you are giving millions of rides every hour, you are bound to get sued every hour especially when you employ the unemployable and transport people who cant afford more than a pool.


----------



## tomatopaste

ShinyAndChrome said:


> I still don't understand that a company with this revenue and having drivers absorb all the big capital costs and overhead can't make money.


Because even though drivers are absorbing many of the capital costs, Uber is selling a product at half price which increases their turnover costs. When a driver receives 3 dollars on a minimum fare it results in Uber having to replace that driver 20 times a year. Even if drivers kept 100 percent of the current fares, most drivers would still quit. Uber is not charging anywhere close to what it costs to maintain a reliable pool of drivers.

They are offering Black Friday prices everyday. The problem for Uber is they have a tiger by the tail. If they raise prices they lose all their customers to Lyft, and Google and GM are helping prop up Lyft, partly out of spite. Everyone hates Uber and love watching them bleed to death.



excel2345 said:


> Scene 6 - Drunk see's a self driving Uber coming, steps off curb, Uber stops, steps back onto curb, Uber goes, steps back off curb, Uber stops, rinse repeat indefinitely.


Scene 7: Live video feed of the incident is automatically patched into the closest police cruiser.

Scene 8: Police show up and perp is ordered to get on the ground.

Scene 9: Perp soils himself while dropping to the ground.

Scene 10: Hazmat van pulls up.


----------



## himynameis

Making money with uber was always a dream now it's time to wake up


----------



## SaintCl89

There is literally no reason that they should be losing money. They need to raise the cost of rides and take a solid 25 percent and not be so easy on just refunding money for every single ride that there is a complaint. In addition to that they should abandone self driving cars which is a huge amount of money. They already have a name for themselves (not a great name, but still a name) so they should stick with what works. Affordable rides while taking care of the people that work for them, the drivers. Take care of the drivers and the passengers will be taken care of as well.


----------



## tomatopaste

SaintCl89 said:


> There is literally no reason that they should be losing money. They need to raise the cost of rides and take a solid 25 percent and not be so easy on just refunding money for every single ride that there is a complaint. In addition to that they should abandone self driving cars which is a huge amount of money. They already have a name for themselves (not a great name, but still a name) so they should stick with what works. Affordable rides while taking care of the people that work for them, the drivers. Take care of the drivers and the passengers will be taken care of as well.


Too late. No human driven taxi service can compete with self driving taxis. It's over.

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0GqCd3OEQdXNdIME/200.gif


----------



## tohunt4me

RACE TO THE BOTTOM HITS WALL !


----------



## tomatopaste

tohunt4me said:


> RACE TO THE BOTTOM HITS WALL !


Why do we have to accept that human driven cars are as good as it gets? Why do we have to accept that we've progressed far enough and we need to stop right here? And who gets to decide that?


----------



## pomegranite112

tomatopaste said:


> Why do we have to accept that human driven cars are as good as it gets? Why do we have to accept that we've progressed far enough and we need to stop right here? And who gets to decide that?


Why are you so optimistic about self driving cars.

Drivers will get angry. They'll wear ski masks and break their windows, flatten their tires and destroy the sensors. Humans are ruthless. Trust me. This wont be an easy ride for any co


----------



## tomatopaste

pomegranite112 said:


> Why are you so optimistic about self driving cars.


less expensive
fewer deaths/accidents
more comfortable
more productive
less traffic
frees up parking
elderly, handicapped are now mobile
reduces shipping costs

Why are you so fearful?


----------



## pomegranite112

tomatopaste said:


> less expensive
> fewer deaths/accidents
> more comfortable
> more productive
> less traffic
> frees up parking
> elderly, handicapped are now mobile
> reduces shipping costs
> 
> Why are you so fearful?


Lets see how much money they make with their sensors covered


----------



## tomatopaste

pomegranite112 said:


> Lets see how much money they make with their sensors covered


why would their sensors be covered?
http://digg.com/2017/waymo-clean-lidar


----------



## pomegranite112

tomatopaste said:


> why would their sensors be covered?
> http://digg.com/2017/waymo-clean-lidar


Bird poop not spray paint


----------



## Taxi Driver in Arizona

tomatopaste said:


> less expensive
> fewer deaths/accidents
> more comfortable
> more productive
> less traffic
> frees up parking
> elderly, handicapped are now mobile
> reduces shipping costs
> 
> Why are you so fearful?


Elderly? Handicapped?

Please explain how, exactly, a SDC is going to fold up grandma's walker and put it in the trunk?


----------



## SaintCl89

tomatopaste said:


> Too late. No human driven taxi service can compete with self driving taxis. It's over.
> 
> https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0GqCd3OEQdXNdIME/200.gif


Love the gif lmao


----------



## tomatopaste

pomegranite112 said:


> Why are you so optimistic about self driving cars.
> 
> Drivers will get angry. They'll wear ski masks and break their windows, flatten their tires and destroy the sensors. Humans are ruthless. Trust me. This wont be an easy ride for any co





Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> Elderly? Handicapped?
> 
> Please explain how, exactly, a SDC is going to fold up grandma's walker and put it in the trunk?


Grandma will order SDC with a candy striper onboad. Next question.


----------



## Taxi Driver in Arizona

tomatopaste said:


> Grandma will order SDC with a candy striper onboad. Next question.
> 
> View attachment 178794


So how does that work financially? Does the owner of the SDC charge more $$ for cars with an assistant? How does that square with the ADA?

There are more questions than answers with the SDC revolution.


----------



## pomegranite112

tomatopaste said:


> Grandma will order SDC with a candy striper onboad. Next question.
> 
> View attachment 178794


Sounds expensive and not very practical

Doesbt seem like u have much of an answer


----------



## tomatopaste

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> So how does that work financially? Does the owner of the SDC charge more $$ for cars with an assistant? How does that square with the ADA?
> 
> There are more questions than answers with the SDC revolution.


Financially it costs less for grandma than Uber X. On the Waymo app there's a tab for WheelChairFoldingCandystripers.com and she orders a wheel chair folding candy striper with her self driving Chrysler Pacifica mini van. Next question.


----------



## Cableguynoe

tomatopaste said:


> Next question.


I'm good for now. 
But lets keep the thread open in case we think of anything.


----------



## Oscar Levant

tomatopaste said:


> *Uber Hopes a New Investment Keeps It Afloat After the First $11.6 Billion*
> 
> But when you think about what they really represent, it's more like hearing that a hasty medical procedure is keeping someone alive for now. That's better than a failure, and yet the future is still dark.
> Uber depends on shifting operational costs onto others. Even doing so, it's been losing an estimated $2 billion a year, at least over the last couple of years.
> That would put any company into dire straits. You need a fat piggy bank to fund all that red ink. Uber has never made a penny in profit as it funded expansion and attempts to push into markets with little regard for regulatory realities or compliance. Instead, the money has flowed like crimson flood waters over worn levies.
> In addition, the deal reportedly hinges on a number of conditions, including some of the shares coming at below the current market valuation for Uber. You don't make that kind of deal unless you have to. The signs suggest Uber's back is against the wall and the clock is running fast.
> https://www.inc.com/erik-sherman/ub...-keeps-it-afloat-after-first-116-billion.html


 as someone who's been in the transportation business for 15 years I can recommend to Uber a simple suggestion that would bring it to profitability and that is this: charge what taxis charge. Sure, you'll lose a lot of customers but those are customers that would never taken a taxi in the first place noting that a taxi was never meant to be a cheap ride it's always has been a luxury and so should uber be luxuries. so I predict they would lose half their customers but half of its current size is still pretty big and would it be turning a profit, and guess what --drivers could earn a living, a novel idea! on top of it uber having the advantage with low-cost Insurance compared to what taxis pay.


----------



## MHR

tomatopaste said:


> Scene 7: Live video feed of the incident is automatically patched into the closest police cruiser.


What city can afford this?


----------



## tomatopaste

MHR said:


> What city can afford this?


Do parents live stream video of their kid's school play to grandma? Yes, yes they do.



Oscar Levant said:


> as someone who's been in the transportation business for 15 years I can recommend to Uber a simple suggestion that would bring it to profitability and that is this: charge what taxis charge. Sure, you'll lose a lot of customers but those are customers that would never taken a taxi in the first place noting that a taxi was never meant to be a cheap ride it's always has been a luxury and so should uber be luxuries. so I predict they would lose half their customers but half of its current size is still pretty big and would it be turning a profit, and guess what --drivers could earn a living, a novel idea! on top of it uber having the advantage with low-cost Insurance compared to what taxis pay.


Too late. GM will unveil their plans for self driving taxis this week. Human driven taxis and rideshare are walking dead.


----------



## Friendly Jack

Oscar Levant said:


> as someone who's been in the transportation business for 15 years I can recommend to Uber a simple suggestion that would bring it to profitability and that is this: charge what taxis charge. Sure, you'll lose a lot of customers but those are customers that would never taken a taxi in the first place noting that a taxi was never meant to be a cheap ride it's always has been a luxury and so should uber be luxuries. so I predict they would lose half their customers but half of its current size is still pretty big and would it be turning a profit, and guess what --drivers could earn a living, a novel idea! on top of it uber having the advantage with low-cost Insurance compared to what taxis pay.


If Uber did charge what taxis charge, what makes you think that Uber would share any of that extra money with drivers?


----------



## RedANT

tomatopaste said:


> less expensive
> fewer deaths/accidents
> more comfortable
> more productive
> less traffic
> frees up parking
> elderly, handicapped are now mobile
> reduces shipping costs
> 
> Why are you so fearful?


1. If self driving cars are less expensive to operate, why aren't we all able to drive a Tesla?

2. Fewer accidents/deaths generally occur when you're traveling at slow speeds in less congested areas, but performance in higher traffic areas aren't necessarily better.

3. Do you really believe that mass purchased self driving vehicles will feature plush leather interiors, etc? Doubtful. You'll see the cheapest interiors which will be less comfortable.

4. Between runs, I clean my car, deliver UberEats, etc. Are you saying that a self driving vehicle will clean itself, fill up gas and be able to make deliveries like we do?

5. Less traffic? A self driving car will most probably follow all traffic laws. They won't turn or block intersections like Uber drivers. Some areas take 45 min to an hour to turn and merge with creative driving skills. A self driving car at the same intersection would sit there for HOURS, and would wait at onramps all day waiting for an appropriate break in traffic to allow "proper" vehicle spacing. No thanks.

6. Free up parking? So rather than park between runs, the self driving vehicles will just continue driving? How will Uber deal with the increase in gas that's currently absorbed by the drivers?

7. Disabled/seniors, at least here in Seattle, already have public transportation options. Pushing that responsibility only shifts liability to Uber. Is that a sustainable business model?

8. Reduced shipping costs? I need to remind idiot pax everyday to make sure they take all their crap with them when they exit my car. Without driver reminders, you're going to see a large spike in items left in vehicles, etc.


----------



## tohunt4me

tomatopaste said:


> Why do we have to accept that human driven cars are as good as it gets? Why do we have to accept that we've progressed far enough and we need to stop right here? And who gets to decide that?


You KNOW i HATE TRANSHUMANISM.

I CONSIDER IT AN ABOMINATION TO GOD AND MAN.

THE DEATH OF EVOLUTION.

BUT

I THOUGHT THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT UBER, and their backing into a corner.

And yes i do have deep concerns about machines taking over and mankinds over dependance on them.



pomegranite112 said:


> Bird poop not spray paint


A large moth disabled sensors a few months ago.
I published a copy of a photo of the moth here months ago. ( dont make me go find it)


----------



## tomatopaste

tohunt4me said:


> You KNOW i HATE TRANSHUMANISM.
> 
> I CONSIDER IT AN ABOMINATION TO GOD AND MAN.
> 
> THE DEATH OF EVOLUTION.
> 
> BUT
> 
> I THOUGHT THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT UBER, and their backing into a corner.
> 
> And yes i do have deep concerns about machines taking over and mankinds over dependance on them.
> 
> A large moth disabled sensors a few months ago.
> I published a copy of a photo of the moth here months ago. ( dont make me go find it)


Is all progress bad? What about medical research? What about research searching for cures for boob cancer and ball cancer, is that bad? What about advancements in crop production to help feed starving nations?

There are 7 billion humans on the planet and that's only possible because of modern technology. Do some of them need to leave? If so, do I get a say in which ones go first?


----------



## tohunt4me

tomatopaste said:


> Is all progress bad? What about medical research? What about research searching for cures for boob cancer and ball cancer, is that bad? What about advancements in crop production to help feed starving nations?
> 
> There are 7 billion humans on the planet and that's only possible because of modern technology. Do some of them need to leave? If so, do I get a say in which ones go first?


It all depends on which direction " "Progress" progresses.

I have much Respect for the Amish.

Perhaps technology has become more of a Master than a Servant ?

Traffic spy cams on every pole.
Your every move and thought tracked and recorded ?

How much is Too Much ?

Should your T.V. be watching you ?

Does the country REALLY NEED a Fiber Optic nervous system connecting to N.S.A. in Utah ?

Do WE really need to pay for our spies ?

Ask yourself WHY Edward Snowden can ONLY find Sanctuary in non Central Bank countries such as Russia. . .

Globalist Bankers Run Your Government.

To quote George Orwell from " Animal Farm" . . . " We are the Product".

" Its a Big Club, and You're Not in it "!- George Carlin.

FREE WILL.

SOVEREIGN MEN AND NATIONS.

Please read U.N. AGENDA 21.

U.R.S.A.
Union des Republiques Socialists Animales- French title for " Animal Farm" . . .1945.

Read U.N. AGENDA 21
view the plan and its methods of implimentation. Which you are witnessing now . . .


----------



## tomatopaste

tohunt4me said:


> It all depends on which direction " "Progress" progresses.
> 
> I have much Respect for the Amish.
> 
> Perhaps technology has become more of a Master than a Servant ?
> 
> Traffic spy cams on every pole.
> Your every move and thought tracked and recorded ?
> 
> How much is Too Much ?
> 
> Should your T.V. be watching you ?
> 
> Does the country REALLY NEED a Fiber Optic nervous system connecting to N.S.A. in Utah ?
> 
> Do WE really need to pay for our spies ?
> 
> Ask yourself WHY Edward Snowden can ONLY find Sanctuary in non Central Bank countries such as Russia. . .
> 
> Globalist Bankers Run Your Government.
> 
> To quote George Orwell from " Animal Farm" . . . " We are the Product".
> 
> " Its a Big Club, and You're Not in it "!- George Carlin.
> 
> FREE WILL.
> 
> SOVEREIGN MEN AND NATIONS.
> 
> Please read U.N. AGENDA 21.
> 
> U.R.S.A.
> Union des Republiques Socialists Animales- French title for " Animal Farm" . . .1945.
> 
> Read U.N. AGENDA 21
> view the plan and its methods of implimentation. Which you are witnessing now . . .


I approach life from the opposite end of the spectrum. I see your world view as: life isn't fair so don't even try. I see the world we life in today as: wow, what an exciting time to be alive.


----------



## WeirdBob

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> Elderly? Handicapped?
> 
> Please explain how, exactly, a SDC is going to fold up grandma's walker and put it in the trunk?


Leaked footage from the Uber Package Assistance Lab


----------



## tomatopaste

WeirdBob said:


> Leaked footage from the Uber Package Assistance Lab


Leaked footage of defective humans


----------



## tomatopaste

WeirdBob said:


> Leaked footage from the Uber Package Assistance Lab


I can think of 20 applications for a SpotMini without even trying. And it's coming soon.


----------



## Rakos

tomatopaste said:


> I approach life from the opposite end of the spectrum. I see your world view as: life isn't fair so don't even try. I see the world we life in today as: wow, what an exciting time to be alive.


Are you a robot...???

You sure are startin...

To sound like one...

Butt...it could just be...

All the forward thinkin...

You're doin so much of...

Rakos


----------



## WeirdBob

tomatopaste said:


> Leaked footage of defective humans


Very good point. We should not have babies loading grannie's walker or wheelchair in the trunk.


----------



## tomatopaste

WeirdBob said:


> Very good point. We should not have babies loading grannie's walker or wheelchair in the trunk.


Actually the point is this: it takes years, 16 to be legal, for Tommy to acquire the skills necessary to fold and load granny's wheelchair into the trunk. On the other hand once you teach the robot how to load the wheelchair, that skill set can be reproduced and downloaded into billions of robots instantly. The robot's wheelchair loading skill only improves over time and you only have to train the robot once, then you have the ability to download that skill as many times as you want.

Same is true with driving skills. A 16 yr old with a new license is a lot more dangerous than someone with decades of driving experience. A SDC on the other hand will have the same competency as the best SDC on the road. That's why Bob Lutz says at some point society is going to ask: what the hell are we doing? Why are we putting 16 yr olds behind a two thousand pound missile, with their documented high accident rates, when it's no longer necessary?


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

So...
Where are the Waymo pax?
You can't have a transportation company
Without pax.
Any stats on actual pax?


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> So...
> Where are the Waymo pax?
> You can't have a transportation company
> Without pax.
> Any stats on actual pax?


Waymo will start accepting paying pax before Christmas. GM/Cruise is announcing this week they'll begin their self driving taxi service in San Francisco within 6 months. They'll also announce they'll build tens of thousands of self driving Bolts in 2018.

Waymo's next cities after Phoenix will be Kirkland Washington, Austin Texas and Mountain View California. Driving for Uber in these cities, as well as SF, will no longer be an option after 2018. Manhattan will also start feeling the pinch, and it may not be an option there either.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

No pax no company. It's like Foo fighters, who were trained to fight aliens.
Aint no there there.


----------



## Oscar Levant

Friendly Jack said:


> If Uber did charge what taxis charge, what makes you think that Uber would share any of that extra money with drivers?


Good point.



tomatopaste said:


> Do parents live stream video of their kid's school play to grandma? Yes, yes they do.
> 
> Too late. GM will unveil their plans for self driving taxis this week. Human driven taxis and rideshare are walking dead.


 Uber SDCs are going to be an economic boondoggle unless they can acquire electric cars, besides, a lot of people are still not going to want to ride in these things. what 
Uber and you guys are not factoring in is the inhumanity of a self-driving car --for example, you can have a robot bartender but do you see any robot bartenders? nope, so just because it's high-tech doesn't mean it's going to fly. we will just have to wait and see.


----------



## tomatopaste

Oscar Levant said:


> Good point.
> 
> Uber SDCs are going to be an economic boondoggle unless they can acquire electric cars, besides, a lot of people are still not going to want to ride in these things. what
> Uber and you guys are not factoring in is the inhumanity of a self-driving car --for example, you can have a robot bartender but do you see any robot bartenders? nope, so just because it's high-tech doesn't mean it's going to fly. we will just have to wait and see.


Malarkey. Did society weep wale and nash its teeth about the inhumanity of man when they pulled human elevator operators out?


----------



## goneubering

Oscar Levant said:


> a lot of people are still not going to want to ride in these things. what Uber and you guys are not factoring in is the inhumanity of a self-driving car --for example, you can have a robot bartender but do you see any robot bartenders? nope, so just because it's high-tech doesn't mean it's going to fly. we will just have to wait and see.


You don't want to ride in a Johnny Cab??!!


----------



## UbingInLA

When Uber combines Self Cleaning Bathroom technology with Self Driving Cars... and can provide this for under a dollar a mile - we're SOL.

The future of low cost ride share, Uber style.


----------



## WeirdBob

tomatopaste said:


> Malarkey. Did society weep wale and nash its teeth about the inhumanity of man when they pulled human elevator operators out?
> 
> View attachment 179069


I not only gnashed my teeth, I rent my garments.










It was a rough, depressing day when the last of the elevator operators was laid off.


----------



## tomatopaste

WeirdBob said:


> I not only gnashed my teeth, I rent my garments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a rough, depressing day when the last of the elevator operators was laid off.


The 'g' is silent AND invisible. Everybody knows that.


----------



## Rat

tomatopaste said:


> You're implying it would be easy to hack into self driving cars and run them into a schoolyard full of children. Not possible. Why aren't terrorists hacking into airliners and causing them to spin out of control? Why aren't airliners falling out of the sky on a daily basis?


Airliners have two pilots



tomatopaste said:


> If a terrorist hacks into the autopilot of an airliner and flips the plane over, exactly what is the pilot going to do?


Stop the plane from flipping over.


----------



## tomatopaste

Rat said:


> Airliners have two pilots
> 
> Stop the plane from flipping over.


If you're in a car going 100 miles per hour and someone jerks the steering wheel all the way to the right, it's over. At that point nothing can be done by anyone. It's even worse with an airliner.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

No pax, no Waymo. Uber gots Waymo pax.


----------



## Rakos

TwoFiddyMile said:


> No pax, no Waymo. Uber gots Waymo pax.


Are you kidding me...

Waymo just buys Uber's pax...

To settle their little issue...

Throw in a little bit for the shareholders...

Instant buy out!

You heard it hear first amigos...8>)

Rakos


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Rakos said:


> Are you kidding me...
> 
> Waymo just buys Uber's pax...
> 
> To settle their little issue...
> 
> Throw in a little bit for the shareholders...
> 
> Instant buy out!
> 
> You heard it hear first amigos...8>)
> 
> Rakos
> View attachment 179252


You know, you're a pretty fart smeller.
You really don't monkey around.


----------



## Michael1230nj

Smart investors constantly invest in Losing Companies and losing Ideas what make an investor smart is he's investing Other People's Money. Witness 2008. Uber will go the way of those high flying Bio-Tech stocks in the tech wreck. Uber is a Taxi Company masqueradeing as a Tech Company.


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> No pax, no Waymo. Uber gots Waymo pax.


Your post is not going to age well


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> No pax, no Waymo. Uber gots Waymo pax.


30 seconds before a tidal wave:

Two Fiddy: What are you talking about, not only is there no tidal wave, there is less water here on the beach.

Me: Uh, Two Fiddy, that's cause the tidal wave is sucking out all the water.

Two Fiddy: Hey look a starfish. You're ridicu...
Two Fiddy: OH SHIT!


----------



## Rakos

tomatopaste said:


> 30 seconds before a tidal wave:
> 
> Two Fiddy: What are you talking about, not only is there no tidal wave, there is less water here on the beach.
> 
> Me: Uh, Two Fiddy, that's cause the tidal wave is sucking out all the water.
> 
> Two Fiddy: Hey look a starfish. You're ridicu...
> Two Fiddy: OH SHIT!


Dats what I'm talkin about...

Congrats...you are NOT a bot...

Butt...must admit...

Your pretty well informed...

Rakos


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

tomatopaste said:


> Your post is not going to age well


No posts age well. Take for instance your posts where you pretend to be a young cute admin female.
It's only been a few months and I bet your own handiwork gives you ***** chills.


----------



## tohunt4me

tomatopaste said:


> I approach life from the opposite end of the spectrum. I see your world view as: life isn't fair so don't even try. I see the world we life in today as: wow, what an exciting time to be alive.


For ROBOTS



WeirdBob said:


> Leaked footage from the Uber Package Assistance Lab


Million Dollar Bell Boy !

That will surely save Money !

How much does the hydraulics weigh ? 500 lbs ?

Put him in the trunk . . .
Program him to clean puke.

Pray


tomatopaste said:


> I can think of 20 applications for a SpotMini without even trying. And it's coming soon.


Prayng to Ra the sun God for a Solar Flare to Destroy these Evil Transhumanist Robots and cleanse the earth for mankind !
Amen Ra !



tomatopaste said:


> Actually the point is this: it takes years, 16 to be legal, for Tommy to acquire the skills necessary to fold and load granny's wheelchair into the trunk. On the other hand once you teach the robot how to load the wheelchair, that skill set can be reproduced and downloaded into billions of robots instantly. The robot's wheelchair loading skill only improves over time and you only have to train the robot once, then you have the ability to download that skill as many times as you want.
> 
> Same is true with driving skills. A 16 yr old with a new license is a lot more dangerous than someone with decades of driving experience. A SDC on the other hand will have the same competency as the best SDC on the road. That's why Bob Lutz says at some point society is going to ask: what the hell are we doing? Why are we putting 16 yr olds behind a two thousand pound missile, with their documented high accident rates, when it's no longer necessary?


We put 15 year olds in 430 4bbl v8's with No Insurance when i was young !

It was fun . . .

Live WITHOUT A NET.

THE WAY LIFE WAS MEANT TO BE !


----------



## Rat

tomatopaste said:


> If you're in a car going 100 miles per hour and someone jerks the steering wheel all the way to the right, it's over. At that point nothing can be done by anyone. It's even worse with an airliner.


Airliners have to travel miles before they hit anything. You always act the fool


----------



## Rakos

tohunt4me said:


> For ROBOTS
> 
> Million Dollar Bell Boy !
> 
> That will surely save Money !
> 
> How much does the hydraulics weigh ? 500 lbs ?
> 
> Put him in the trunk . . .
> Program him to clean puke.
> 
> Pray
> 
> Prayng to Ra the sun God for a Solar Flare to Destroy these Evil Transhumanist Robots and cleanse the earth for mankind !
> Amen Ra !
> 
> We put 15 year olds in 430 4bbl v8's with No Insurance when i was young !
> 
> It was fun . . .
> 
> Live WITHOUT A NET.
> 
> THE WAY LIFE WAS MEANT TO BE !


You know one good thing...

You could say for those boats...

There was a lot of steel in them...

And you could survive all but the worst...

Automobile collisions...

I think the reason for automation...

Is the bad mix of vehicles...

That now inhabit the highways...8>O

They used to be a rare sight...

Now they are everywhere...8>)

Rakos


----------



## tomatopaste

Rat said:


> Airliners have to travel miles before they hit anything. You always act the fool


Seriously, hit something? If you violently flip an airliner over it breaks apart, it's not a fighter jet.


----------



## Rakos

tomatopaste said:


> Seriously, hit something? If you violently flip an airliner over it breaks apart, it's not a fighter jet.


I'll bet there's a few pilots...

That would argue that point...8>)
















Rakos


----------



## tomatopaste

tohunt4me said:


> For ROBOTS
> 
> Million Dollar Bell Boy !
> 
> That will surely save Money !
> 
> How much does the hydraulics weigh ? 500 lbs ?
> 
> Put him in the trunk . . .
> Program him to clean puke.
> 
> Pray
> 
> Prayng to Ra the sun God for a Solar Flare to Destroy these Evil Transhumanist Robots and cleanse the earth for mankind !
> Amen Ra !
> 
> We put 15 year olds in 430 4bbl v8's with No Insurance when i was young !
> 
> It was fun . . .
> 
> Live WITHOUT A NET.
> 
> THE WAY LIFE WAS MEANT TO BE !


I'll bet you had a swell abacus too.



Rakos said:


> I'll bet there's a few pilots...
> 
> That would argue that point...8>)
> View attachment 179337
> View attachment 179338
> 
> 
> Rakos


There are a total of zero pilots that would argue you can violently flip over an airliner without it falling from the sky.


----------



## Rakos

You don't want to screw with...

A _*violent *_gorilla either...

Rakos


----------



## pomegranite112

tomatopaste said:


> I'll bet you had a swell abacus too.
> 
> There are a total of zero pilots that would argue you can violently flip over an airliner without it falling from the sky.


Rofl sounds like he got u good lolol


----------



## tomatopaste

tohunt4me said:


> Prayng to Ra the sun God for a Solar Flare to Destroy these Evil Transhumanist Robots and cleanse the earth for mankind !
> Amen Ra !


Would you please pick a point in time where we had progressed enough and thus every advancement that came afterwards is therefore evil, so we know what needs to be destroyed


----------



## pomegranite112

tomatopaste said:


> Would you please pick a point in time where we had progressed enough and thus every advancement that came afterwards is therefore evil, so we know what needs to be destroyed


You


----------



## Rakos

tomatopaste said:


> Would you please pick a point in time where we had progressed enough and thus every advancement that came afterwards is therefore evil, so we know what needs to be destroyed


Everyone is worrying to much...

About these thingys called robots...

I know where the "OFF" switch is...8>)

Rakos


----------



## tomatopaste

pomegranite112 said:


> Rofl sounds like he got u good lolol


I'm sure to you it did.








tohunt4me said:


> Prayng to Ra the sun God for a Solar Flare to Destroy these Evil Transhumanist Robots and cleanse the earth for mankind !
> Amen Ra !


Say hello to your new; Fex Ex, Ups deliver guy. Your McDonalds ihop and waitress, and security for half the homes and businesses in America.


----------



## goneubering

Woof!! Go get 'em Spot.


----------



## ShinyAndChrome

tomatopaste said:


> Too late. No human driven taxi service can compete with self driving taxis. It's over.
> 
> https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0GqCd3OEQdXNdIME/200.gif


It's still some number of years off before we'll have autonomous vehicles on streets that lack drivers (i.e. drunk passenger gets in car and it's driving itself), except in very limited areas basically as proof of concepts. And that can indeed take some drivers out, like if you have a self driving car in a thick city center and it just does the same route all day long. But for certain routes and conditions we'll still need humans for a while longer (not sure how long).

I do have a hard on for self-driving cars. I just don't see it happening inside of two years as Musk as predicted.

I agree uber has the tiger by the tail. Google and other paymasters are putting so much behind lyft that if uber pulls back now from its silliness they will take all its market away. Uber cannot raise rates without lyft doing it. Both are just burning cash for market share like clowns, and one will win.

I still don't get, despite that, how uber is losing money at its current rates. It takes $10 from a pax and keeps $4 it's done damn near nothing and it's obviously not paying a lot for app development. Can finding new drivers really be that expensive? It only pays a paltry sign up fee as part of its ponzi and then whatever it costs to run a back ground check. Surely it could break even within 25-50 rides?



Fubernuber said:


> When you are giving millions of rides every hour, you are bound to get sued every hour especially when you employ the unemployable and transport people who cant afford more than a pool.


Lol. you may be right.

Has anybody seen Uber's actual outlays; how it is spending its money; a break down based on income and outcome? I'd really like to know where it's going.


----------



## wb6vpm

tohunt4me said:


> Meet " the Owners of America"- George Carlin told you about decades ago.





tomatopaste said:


> Seriously, hit something? If you violently flip an airliner over it breaks apart, it's not a fighter jet.


Airliners are pretty hardy ships:


----------



## goneubering

ShinyAndChrome said:


> I still don't get, despite that, how uber is losing money at its current rates. It takes $10 from a pax and keeps $4
> 
> it's done damn near nothing and it's obviously not paying a lot for app development. Can finding new drivers really be that expensive? It only pays a paltry sign up fee as part of its ponzi and then whatever it costs to run a back ground check. Surely it could break even within 25-50 rides?
> 
> Lol. you may be right.
> 
> Has anybody seen Uber's actual outlays; how it is spending its money; a break down based on income and outcome? I'd really like to know where it's going.


I wish they only took $4!! It's usually more like they take $6 from a $10 ride.


----------



## tomatopaste

wb6vpm said:


> Airliners are pretty hardy ships:


You do this to an airliner and it falls apart. Point being, if it were possible to hack into the autopilot of an airliner and send it into a violent turn, we'd have airplanes falling out of the sky on a daily basis. We don't, because it's not. Same with self driving cars, they won't be able to hack into self driving cars and take control of them sending it into oncoming traffic or into a school yard full of children.


----------



## Andretti

tomatopaste said:


> Waymo will start accepting paying pax before Christmas. GM/Cruise is announcing this week they'll begin their self driving taxi service in San Francisco within 6 months. They'll also announce they'll build tens of thousands of self driving Bolts in 2018.
> 
> Waymo's next cities after Phoenix will be Kirkland Washington, Austin Texas and Mountain View California. *Driving for Uber in these cities, as well as SF, will no longer be an option after 2018. *Manhattan will also start feeling the pinch, and it may not be an option there either.


Indeed.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/03/waymo-ride-sharing-service-fall-2017/



Oscar Levant said:


> Good point.
> 
> Uber SDCs are going to be an economic boondoggle unless they can acquire electric cars, besides, a lot of people are still not going to want to ride in these things. what
> *Uber and you guys are not factoring in is the inhumanity of a self-driving car --for example, you can have a robot bartender but do you see any robot bartenders? nope, so just because it's high-tech doesn't mean it's going to fly.* we will just have to wait and see.


Discussions with my pax in my city have been polarized. But there are quite a few pax that have told me they would happily take a driver-less rideshare car, and indeed would prefer it.

My suspicion is there's also at least some pax that wouldn't want to say that to my face. (back of head! )


----------



## goneubering

Andretti said:


> Indeed.
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/03/waymo-ride-sharing-service-fall-2017/


Some of the Tomato's proclamations are simply laughable.


----------



## tohunt4me

tomatopaste said:


> Would you please pick a point in time where we had progressed enough and thus every advancement that came afterwards is therefore evil, so we know what needs to be destroyed


N.S.A. comes to mind . . .
Instantly
.
America looks like Stassi East Germany during the Cold War when i was a kid.

I just came back from court house ive gone to all my life.
Had to go through metal detectors . . .
It had no a.c. and spittoons when i was a kid.

I find these developments offensive.


----------



## tomatopaste

ShinyAndChrome said:


> Surely it could break even within 25-50 rides?


What percentage of drivers last 25 to 50 rides? Every promo Uber pays a driver, 100 bucks for x number of rides, is not being paid by a paying customer, it's being paid with investor cash. Think of it this way, what if Uber paid drivers 100 percent of current fares but didn't recruit any new drivers, most drivers would still quit. Uber would have very few drivers and without drivers they don't have a business. Even at 5 or 6 bucks, a minimum fare ride is not worth it to most drivers.


----------



## tohunt4me

I REMEMBER WHEN AMERICA WAS FREE !



Andretti said:


> Indeed.
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/03/waymo-ride-sharing-service-fall-2017/
> 
> Discussions with my pax in my city have been polarized. But there are quite a few pax that have told me they would happily take a driver-less rideshare car, and indeed would prefer it.
> 
> My suspicion is there's also at least some pax that wouldn't want to say that to my face. (back of head! )


No cheapskate non tipping guilt


----------



## tomatopaste

tohunt4me said:


> N.S.A. comes to mind . . .
> Instantly
> .
> America looks like Stassi East Germany during the Cold War when i was a kid.
> 
> I just came back from court house ive gone to all my life.
> Had to go through metal detectors . . .
> It had no a.c. and spittoons when i was a kid.
> 
> I find these developments offensive.


No, I mean what products are inherently evil? Cars, phones, gasoline, internet, air conditioning, fast food? Which ones?


----------



## Andretti

tohunt4me said:


> I REMEMBER WHEN AMERICA WAS FREE !
> 
> No cheapskate non tipping guilt


And I also suspect a great many people do indeed prefer to skip human interaction, perhaps even more prevalent among the computer interacting millennials.


----------



## tohunt4me

Ok.


tomatopaste said:


> No, I mean what products are inherently evil? Cars, phones, gasoline, internet, air conditioning, fast food? Which ones?


You are right on that point.

Excluding nuclear weapons.


----------



## tomatopaste

goneubering said:


> Some of the Tomato's proclamations are simply laughable.


Name one.



Andretti said:


> Indeed.
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/03/waymo-ride-sharing-service-fall-2017/
> 
> Discussions with my pax in my city have been polarized. But there are quite a few pax that have told me they would happily take a driver-less rideshare car, and indeed would prefer it.
> 
> My suspicion is there's also at least some pax that wouldn't want to say that to my face. (back of head! )


I'd say 99 percent of pax would prefer not having to get into a car with a stranger. When you're in the elevator and at the last minute some Uber driver looking **** stops the door from closing and jumps in, you say EFF!!!, under your breath, every time.



tohunt4me said:


> Ok.
> 
> You are right on that point.
> 
> Excluding nuclear weapons.


I'm guessing the only reason you use; phones and the internet is so you an tell the masses how evil they are, correct?


----------



## Lowestformofwit

tomatopaste said:


> Say hello *GOODBYE* to your new; Fex Ex, Ups deliver guy. Your McDonalds ihop and waitress, and security for half the homes and businesses in America.


----------



## jester121

tomatopaste said:


> Every promo Uber pays a driver, 100 bucks for x number of rides, is not being paid by a paying customer, it's being paid with investor cash.


Not since upfront pricing came around -- with Uber pocketing 50-60% of fares in many cases, they've drastically slowed down the hemorrhaging of cash from years past. If they can keep the scam going, they'll drastically narrow losses by Q1 or maybe Q2 next year.


----------



## goneubering

tomatopaste said:


> Name one.
> 
> I'd say 99 percent of pax would prefer not having to get into a car with a stranger. When you're in the elevator and at the last minute some Uber driver looking **** stops the door from closing and jumps in, you say EFF!!!, under your breath, every time.
> 
> I'm guessing the only reason you use; phones and the internet is so you an tell the masses how evil they are, correct?


Okay.

"Waymo's next cities after Phoenix will be Kirkland Washington, Austin Texas and Mountain View California. Driving for Uber in these cities, as well as SF, will no longer be an option after 2018."


----------



## tomatopaste

goneubering said:


> Okay.
> 
> "Waymo's next cities after Phoenix will be Kirkland Washington, Austin Texas and Mountain View California. Driving for Uber in these cities, as well as SF, will no longer be an option after 2018."


Fact check: True


----------



## Fubernuber

ShinyAndChrome said:


> It's still some number of years off before we'll have autonomous vehicles on streets that lack drivers (i.e. drunk passenger gets in car and it's driving itself), except in very limited areas basically as proof of concepts. And that can indeed take some drivers out, like if you have a self driving car in a thick city center and it just does the same route all day long. But for certain routes and conditions we'll still need humans for a while longer (not sure how long).
> 
> I do have a hard on for self-driving cars. I just don't see it happening inside of two years as Musk as predicted.
> 
> I agree uber has the tiger by the tail. Google and other paymasters are putting so much behind lyft that if uber pulls back now from its silliness they will take all its market away. Uber cannot raise rates without lyft doing it. Both are just burning cash for market share like clowns, and one will win.
> 
> I still don't get, despite that, how uber is losing money at its current rates. It takes $10 from a pax and keeps $4 it's done damn near nothing and it's obviously not paying a lot for app development. Can finding new drivers really be that expensive? It only pays a paltry sign up fee as part of its ponzi and then whatever it costs to run a back ground check. Surely it could break even within 25-50 rides?
> 
> Lol. you may be right.
> 
> Has anybody seen Uber's actual outlays; how it is spending its money; a break down based on income and outcome? I'd really like to know where it's going.


A disproportionate % goes to driver incentives. They dont specify what the top brass get paid. Its all a facade. Eventually investors will realize that uber has nothing but millions of drivers. Once self driving cars hit the roads their investors will but 2+2 together and realize "the sdc is ubers achilles heel". The irony is amazing and right there infront of their faces.


----------



## cratter

cratter said:


> Haven't read all the replies, but Uber likely realizes any moment now Google and Facebook, with their incredible amount of cash and market reach, could squash them.
> 
> Google and Facebook would basically have to spend zero on advertising to get new riders (and they already know where to find the drivers). Uber is desperately trying to make itself into a brand real quick (part of the SDC is free advertising) because they know they have no protection from competitors and the entry to market is relatively low.
> 
> Now that Lyft and Uber have done all the heavy lifting of government regulations, getting full time drivers on the road, having passengers become use to "strangers" picking them up....its ripe for the pickings!


I should also point out Tesla's vehicle are already fully self driving right now. They simply just have to do wait for the government to say OK and do a software update. Check out the Tesla Model 3. Tesla made the car basically for rideshare. You can unlock the doors through the app and send the keycode to other phones. They come with a camera pointed inside the cabin. All the functions of the car can be controlled through the phone.

Tesla themselves through their master plan have admitted that your car can "go make you money" while you're at work.

And Tesla knows if Uber doesn't want to play along they can easily introduce their own rideshare platform. The amount of companies looking to compete in this space keeps growing everyday.

Check out this video for further details:


----------



## goneubering

tomatopaste said:


> Fact check: True


Nice try Nostradamus. 



cratter said:


> And Tesla knows if Uber doesn't want to play along they can easily introduce their own rideshare platform. The amount of companies looking to compete in this space keeps growing everyday.
> 
> Check out this video for further details:


They've already discussed the Tesla Network.


----------



## tomatopaste

cratter said:


> I should also point out Tesla's vehicle are already fully self driving right now. They simply just have to do wait for the government to say OK and do a software update. Check out the Tesla Model 3. Tesla made the car basically for rideshare. You can unlock the doors through the app and send the keycode to other phones. They come with a camera pointed inside the cabin. All the functions of the car can be controlled through the phone.
> 
> Tesla themselves through their master plan have admitted that your car can "go make you money" while you're at work.
> 
> And Tesla knows if Uber doesn't want to play along they can easily introduce their own rideshare platform. The amount of companies looking to compete in this space keeps growing everyday.
> 
> Check out this video for further details:


Tesla's are not even close to being self driving and never will be. They're not even at the safety driver stage. Tesla is a Ponzi scheme on par with Uber, will be **** up within 2 years.


We come to $12.83B in financing that is required to be funded or refinanced in the next two years vs. $3.66B the company still has on hand.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127942-tesla-potential-roadmap-forward


----------



## goneubering

tomatopaste said:


> Tesla's are not even close to being self driving and never will be. They're not even at the safety driver stage. Tesla is a Ponzi scheme on par with Uber, will be **** up within 2 years.
> 
> https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127942-tesla-potential-roadmap-forward


Another wacky Tomato prediction. Keep us laughing!!


----------



## tomatopaste

goneubering said:


> Another wacky Tomato prediction. Keep us laughing!!


Read the article, Sparky.

We come to $12.83B in financing that is required to be funded or refinanced in the next two years vs. $3.66B the company still has on hand.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127942-tesla-potential-roadmap-forward



goneubering said:


> Another wacky Tomato prediction. Keep us laughing!!


Do a Google search on Tesla's financial woes. It's hilarious.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tes...qfCuuDXAhWIsFQKHX98ANcQpwUIIA&biw=911&bih=425


"Whether they can last another 10 months or a year, he needs money, and quickly," said Kevin Tynan, senior analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence, who estimates Tesla will be required to raise at least $2 billion in fresh capital by mid-2018.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-through-8-000-every-minute-amid-model-3-woes


----------



## cratter

You burn through a lot of cash when a company is new and is building new facilities constantly. Tesla can quit burning cash any minute they want (just like Uber).

Tesla is a public company. They'll just sell more stock.

GM, the banks, everyone gets bailed out. At worse they'll declare bankruptcy and keep producing cars.

Without a doubt Tesla will be around in two years. (They still have the option of being bought either partially or fully by another auto maker at sometime in the future.)

You also probably told people Amazon wouldn't be around in two years back in the day either because they kept burning cash and never made a profit.


----------



## tomatopaste

cratter said:


> You burn through a lot of cash when a company is new and is building new facilities constantly. Tesla can quit burning cash any minute they want (just like Uber).
> 
> Tesla is a public company. They'll just sell more stock.
> 
> GM, the banks, everyone gets bailed out. At worse they'll declare bankruptcy and keep producing cars.
> 
> Without a doubt Tesla will be around in two years. (They still have the option of being bought either partially or fully by another auto maker at sometime in the future.)
> 
> You also probably told people Amazon wouldn't be around in two years back in the day either because they kept burning cash and never made a profit.


Tesla is a 12 year old company. Tesla has never made a profit. Tesla is a Ponzi scheme that'd make Bernie Madoff proud.



tomatopaste said:


> Tesla is a 12 year old company. Tesla has never made a profit. Tesla is a Ponzi scheme that'd make Bernie Madoff proud.


How many more dog and pony shows can Musk do before people wake the hell up? The last dog and pony show with the truck and the roadster jumped the shark. When Ponzi schemes finally start to fall, they fall fast.


----------



## goneubering

tomatopaste said:


> Tesla is a 12 year old company. Tesla has never made a profit. Tesla is a Ponzi scheme that'd make Bernie Madoff proud.
> 
> How many more dog and pony shows can Musk do before people wake the hell up? The last dog and pony show with the truck and the roadster jumped the shark. When Ponzi schemes finally start to fall, they fall fast.


You obviously don't even know what a Ponzi scheme is. Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself here?



cratter said:


> You also probably told people Amazon wouldn't be around in two years back in the day either because they kept burning cash and never made a profit.


Exactly!!


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Customers: what are they?


----------



## OoberrVegas

20 years from now, " back in my day we had Uber a ride cost $5". Now with this automated amazon vehicles you have to finance a years worth of rides, damn shame.

It's like I told Uber support as I argued a $3.75 cancel fee, one day Uber will need its drivers to come to their aid and we won't be there. 

Regulation you say, based on our estimates a untrustworthy company of your size should have been out of business years ago.


----------



## tomatopaste

goneubering said:


> You obviously don't even know what a Ponzi scheme is. Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself here?





goneubering said:


> You obviously don't even know what a Ponzi scheme is. Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself here?
> 
> A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒn.zi/; also a Ponzi game) is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator generates returns for older investors through revenue paid by new investors, rather than from legitimate business activities or profit of financial trading. See Tesla/Uber.
> 
> Exactly!!





goneubering said:


> You obviously don't even know what a Ponzi scheme is. Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself here?


A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒn.zi/; also a Ponzi game) is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator generates returns for older investors through revenue paid by new investors, rather than from legitimate business activities or profit of financial trading. See Tesla/Uber.


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek

tomatopaste said:


> Uber never had anything but a good idea and an app. Both were easily duplicated. Uber should have made money from day one and expanded from there instead of trying to corner the entire worldwide taxi market with simply a good idea and an app.
> 
> Both drivers and investors are subsidizing fares. Without investor cash, Uber'd be toast years ago.


i think the hemmoraging of money is coming from bad management. now with the upfront pricing they are screwing the riders too. if google buys lyft and goes back to get what you pay for they will make plenty of money. driverless cars may come into play someday when they can design an os that wont crash. plus all the cars trucks and motorcycles on the road now are gone. i almost think we will fly our own vehicles like the jetsons before cars drive themselves..


----------



## tomatopaste

25rides7daysaweek said:


> driverless cars may come into play someday when they can design an os that wont crash


Google/Waymo has 4 million self driving miles without a crash. What constitutes "an OS that won't crash?"

*Waymo racks up 4 million self-driven *
*miles

https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/27/waymo-racks-up-4-million-self-driven-miles/*


----------



## phillipzx3

goneubering said:


> Sure thing. That's why smart investors value Uber at around $50 billion. They might have a better handle on business than you.


Many "smart investors" lost their asses in Enron. ;-)


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

tomatopaste said:


> Google/Waymo has 4 million self driving miles without a crash. What constitutes "an OS that won't crash?"
> 
> *Waymo racks up 4 million self-driven *
> *miles
> 
> https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/27/waymo-racks-up-4-million-self-driven-miles/*


4 million miles without a pax!


----------



## phillipzx3

pomegranite112 said:


> Uber just bought 24,000 cars. This is their hail mary. If it fails, investors will prlly back out. The tech is still behind but they seem to be panicing and they should be.


So it's official. Uber IS a taxi business. "We own no vehicles!" That was the excuse they used to avoid regulation.


----------



## at-007smartLP

tomatopaste said:


> What percentage of drivers last 25 to 50 rides? Every promo Uber pays a driver, 100 bucks for x number of rides, is not being paid by a paying customer, it's being paid with investor cash. Think of it this way, what if Uber paid drivers 100 percent of current fares but didn't recruit any new drivers, most drivers would still quit. Uber would have very few drivers and without drivers they don't have a business. Even at 5 or 6 bucks, a minimum fare ride is not worth it to most drivers.


anything less than 100% of $7 is aidding & abetting pax to comitt theft of services in 2017. simple. as that bare minimum to cover costs & earn minimum wage

they have to get a self driving car cheaper than that which any intelligent person knows is not possible. most uber cars are 7K or less junkers sdcs will be least 50Kish for the first 5ish years

so yeah um its a ponzi scam they already 13+ billion in the hole & they spent the last 180 days doing everything BUT the one thing that matters, im sure a handful at the top are doing just fine how many millions of peoples cars did they turn to trash as if people can afford to be loss leaders where jobs are cocaine gamified with badges and ratings to tingle your plaesure centers like a slot machine where 2 outta 20 blank contract button pushes pay out....


----------



## at-007smartLP

tomatopaste said:


> Because even though drivers are absorbing many of the capital costs, Uber is selling a product at half price which increases their turnover costs. When a driver receives 3 dollars on a minimum fare it results in Uber having to replace that driver 20 times a year. Even if drivers kept 100 percent of the current fares, most drivers would still quit. Uber is not charging anywhere close to what it costs to maintain a reliable pool of drivers.
> 
> They are offering Black Friday prices everyday. The problem for Uber is they have a tiger by the tail. If they raise prices they lose all their customers to Lyft, and Google and GM are helping prop up Lyft, partly out of spite. Everyone hates Uber and love watching them bleed to death.
> 
> Scene 7: Live video feed of the incident is automatically patched into the closest police cruiser.
> 
> Scene 8: Police show up and perp is ordered to get on the ground.
> 
> Scene 9: Perp soils himself while dropping to the ground.
> 
> Scene 10: Hazmat van pulls up.


i see it the opposite if uber raised prices why would anyone who does both turn lyft on? its already 10 uber requests to 1 lyft so if lyft doesnt copy they lose a lot of drivers so longer wait times. the only people who woukd drive lyft are the ones banned from uber, no loyalty what so ever when it comes to food on the table

eitheway churn/ fail rate will always be 96% untill least $5 more per trip goes to drivers on both platforms period

the paintball, road line spray painters, & orange cone gangs of the future will take care of the cameras or just wait till it rains or snows


----------



## at-007smartLP

tomatopaste said:


> less expensive
> fewer deaths/accidents
> more comfortable
> more productive
> less traffic
> frees up parking
> elderly, handicapped are now mobile
> reduces shipping costs
> 
> Why are you so fearful?


no possible way a 50K+ self driving car will be less expensive than paying granpa or apu $4 in a less than 7K hoopty least not till 2035 unless of course they plan on subsidizing forever, dont think chauffeurs are a human right but o.k. i guess free rides for all

deaths accidents debatable as these things havent been in the rain, snow with actual humans while 90 % of other cars are still human operated unless everyone gets one like oprah, these things cant levitate, its not kitt from knight rider, things will crash into them & they will be easy to target for the less fortunate really cones, spray paint, paint ball, throwing mud from soungshots lots of points of failure not much redundancy in the real streets beyind gated senior communities where its always sunny, dont know where you live but auto vandalism doesnt get much police attention they usually hiding somewhere textin or hiding till someone gets murdered or there's an attack then you see em for a week, them they go back hiding

comfortable is debatable sure you chill telax with the mandatory camera tracking your eyes for ad placement & to bill you so you pick up your used condom or keep you from wiping snot on your seat, gotta do a facial recog warrant check too, these things will be recording trust that, gotta go the speed limit, 3 second stops, cross walk might take a minute might take 20, sorry cant get out here illegal locked in till in a legal spot...

productive? thousands of cars parking, driving, circling all corporate owned 90% of requests during 6 rush hours out of 24. ownership is extremely productive

less traffic prove it sounds like a lot of jetsons hope i travel thru 4 cities at 3 in the morning the traffic lights still cant tell there's no traffic a simple timer to flash nope, point being for this utopia infastructure & vehichles ALL have to talk to eachother no
lowly human vehicles thats TRILLIONS

parking guess these things will just teleport away huh who cares about parking if you dont own a car??????????

yeah those elderly handicapped partiers out hiking and clubbing. most don't have issues getting to church bingo library or walmart & not really in the economic bracket but hey if they can afford a self driving chauferre so be it self driving golf cart makes more sense but o.k.

yeah uber & these companies are gonna charge less for shipping because theyre so giving

not fearful at all just dont think billionaires who never driven or apparently owned a car have my best interests at heart & believe theyll be a thing in the 2030s in some form or fashion but this 2-3 years hoopla or that all human drivers & cars are just gonna magically dissapere within 10 years is laughable when i see cars from the 70s-90s by the thousands daily, and trains/planes still there and they can self "drive" with a lot less risks and factors,

i also know how real passengers act & treat others property, im sure every driver ever will have least one opportunity to chuck a brick at one of these things, spill some nails in front of it lol...

im also a MAN i like to be able to go 400+ miles whenever i feel like it for $50 & another 50 be cross the country, as opossed to being stuck on my plantation i mean zip code, unless i have electricity, cell phone, internet, & enough credits & a good enough rating to leave who evers couch is be shared. a subscription for movement brilliant

10-15ish a day 300-450ish a month for that freedom is worth it to some even if my car sits in the garage 29 days a month

also a self driving car gonna pull my boat, jetskis, motorcycle? gonna outlaw those too?

if these companies told the truth no one would keep investing in some 2030s return on investment but ponzis are always 3-5 years sure thats the ticket

just stay home when it snows or rains to hard

you get a sd car, and you get a sd car, and you get a sd rv, and you get a sd pick up, & you get a sd tow truck, everyone self driving utopia for all 50K for you 50K for you ain't nothing to a boss gonna replace every traffic light to you get a sd rocket by 2025 human drivers will be outlawed you must turn in your cars, boats, bikes, jet skis or leave em by the water. you are no longer allowed to use the roads your tax dollars paid for, if you want to go more than 3 miles call uber, google, lyft, gm, apple, amazon, ford all your movement belong to us....

in case of emergency get under your desk and put your head in between your knees cuz no ones coming...


----------



## pomegranite112

Yup those self driving thingys are expensive and ubers buying brand new non hybrid volvo SUV’s.

Super cheap rates.

Lets see where that gets them


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek

at-007smartLP said:


> anything less than 100% of $7 is aidding & abetting pax to comitt theft of services in 2017. simple. as that bare minimum to cover costs & earn minimum wage
> 
> they have to get a self driving car cheaper than that which any intelligent person knows is not possible. most uber cars are 7K or less junkers sdcs will be least 50Kish for the first 5ish years
> 
> so yeah um its a ponzi scam they already 13+ billion in the hole & they spent the last 180 days doing everything BUT the one thing that matters, im sure a handful at the top are doing just fine how many millions of peoples cars did they turn to trash as if people can afford to be loss leaders where jobs are cocaine gamified with badges and ratings to tingle your plaesure centers like a slot machine where 2 outta 20 blank contract button pushes pay out....


----------



## OoberrVegas

tomatopaste said:


> A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒn.zi/; also a Ponzi game) is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator generates returns for older investors through revenue paid by new investors, rather than from legitimate business activities or profit of financial trading. See Tesla/Uber.


Sorry but the main component of a ponzi scheme is whether or not a tangible good or service was offered and obtained, Rides count as something.

Traditional Ponzi schemes offer no product or service and all of its profit are directly from new investments Uber is just a shitty low paying, mismanaged, unregulated company.


----------



## heynow321

tomatopaste said:


> Fact check: True


lol! I pick up from the Kirkland google campus almost daily. No sdcs around here except for photo shoots near the water front. They still can't handle rain or left turns



tomatopaste said:


> Google/Waymo has 4 million self driving miles without a crash. What constitutes "an OS that won't crash?"
> 
> *Waymo racks up 4 million self-driven *
> *miles
> 
> https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/27/waymo-racks-up-4-million-self-driven-miles/*


Yeah in California and Arizona in perfect conditions and perfect roads.


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek

uber is making more than $25,000 a year on me. thats just one guy driving one car in one city. the business is already up and should be making money. if they are losing $ its being blown or pocketed. they are so full of crap and lie about everything. if people are investing money they probably be just as well off buying the brooklyn bridge from a bum that lives under it.


----------



## Certain Judgment

Post...of...the...century!!!


----------



## tomatopaste

heynow321 said:


> lol! I pick up from the Kirkland google campus almost daily. No sdcs around here except for photo shoots near the water front. They still can't handle rain or left turns


Taco Bell will take you back.



OoberrVegas said:


> Sorry but the main component of a ponzi scheme is whether or not a tangible good or service was offered and obtained, Rides count as something.
> 
> Traditional Ponzi schemes offer no product or service and all of its profit are directly from new investments Uber is just a shitty low paying, mismanaged, unregulated company.


Both Tesla and Uber have backed themselves into a corner and are now damned if they do, damned if they don't. They are now Bernie Madoff, just trying to keep new money coming in and keep the feds away from their books. Neither Tesla nor Uber started out as a Ponzi scheme, but that's what they've become.


----------



## phillipzx3

tomatopaste said:


> Is all progress bad? What about medical research? What about research searching for cures for boob cancer and ball cancer, is that bad? What about advancements in crop production to help feed starving nations?
> 
> There are 7 billion humans on the planet and that's only possible because of modern technology. Do some of them need to leave? If so, do I get a say in which ones go first?


Cure for cancer? Not going to happen. Too much much in treating the symtoms. Cure cancer and you lose your customers.


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> 4 million miles without a pax!


You mean paying pax.


----------



## phillipzx3

tomatopaste said:


> Taco Bell will take you back.
> 
> Both Tesla and Uber have backed themselves into a corner and are now damned if they do, damned if they don't. They are now Bernie Madoff, just trying to keep new money coming in and keep the feds away from their books. Neither Tesla nor Uber started out as a Ponzi scheme, but that's what they've become.


Tesla hasn't backed their way into anything but future revenue. Tesla, unlike the TNC's, actually builds and sells a product that have people willing to wait for. Well, except for "market experts" who are interested in nothing more than a share of stock.


----------



## tomatopaste

phillipzx3 said:


> Tesla hasn't backed their way into anything but future revenue. Tesla, unlike the TNC's, actually builds and sells a product that have people willing to wait for. Well, except for "market experts" who are interested in nothing more than a share of stock.


Tesla has to raise two billion by August or they're a goner

http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-issues-causing-dangerous-cash-problem-2017-11


----------



## goneubering

tomatopaste said:


> Tesla has to raise two billion by August or they're a goner
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-issues-causing-dangerous-cash-problem-2017-11


LOL

Not a goner. You post links to articles you apparently don't bother to fully read.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-issues-causing-dangerous-cash-problem-2017-11

This can't last forever. In fact, 2018 will be the critical test. If Tesla passes, the stock could vindicate the most bullish advocates at surge to $500. Or it could plummet, and fast. Look out below will be the order of the day.

If the latter, Tesla's bankruptcy risk will increase, but we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. Yes, the Model 3 is a mess. But the core business can still be a profitable life raft, if the Model 3 proves to be the car that almost killed Tesla. And Musk can always sell off chunks of the company, as he has in the past to Daimler, Toyota, and most recently, Tencent. Heck, he could sell the entire company, although it would be a big bite.

For now, investor confidence, though battered, is holding. Everyone is on edge. But we wouldn't be talking about Tesla if we weren't.


----------



## tomatopaste

goneubering said:


> But the core business can still be a profitable life raft, if the Model 3 proves to be the car that almost killed Tesla. And Musk can always sell off chunks of the company, as he has in the past to Daimler, Toyota, and most recently, Tencent. Heck, he could sell the entire company, although it would be a big bite.


How can the core business be a profitable life raft? It's a 12 yr old company and has never made a profit. "Musk can always sell off chunks" = Musk can file for bankruptcy and sell the pieces for scrap.


----------



## cratter

tomatopaste said:


> How can the core business be a profitable life raft? It's a 12 yr old company and has never made a profit.


Have you been on earth very long? It's not uncommon for these type of companies to reinvest a lot of money and not show a profit for a long time.


----------



## phillipzx3

tomatopaste said:


> Tesla is a 12 year old company. Tesla has never made a profit. Tesla is a Ponzi scheme that'd make Bernie Madoff proud.
> 
> How many more dog and pony shows can Musk do before people wake the hell up? The last dog and pony show with the truck and the roadster jumped the shark. When Ponzi schemes finally start to fall, they fall fast.


Tesla has made plenty of profit. Just because there are no dividends being paid to stock holders means nothing. And your comparison of Tesla and Enron is so wrong it's not worth wasting time to explain. It's obvious you have a pimple on your ass over Tesla, but there's no need to pull a Trump. ;-)


----------



## goneubering

cratter said:


> Have you been on earth very long? It's not uncommon for these type of companies to reinvest a lot of money and not show a profit for a long time.


Tomato is like a 12 year old commenting on a 12 year old company.


----------



## heynow321

goneubering said:


> Tomato is like a 12 year old commenting on a 12 year old company.


That's a little generous....although berkely does teach people to behave like 12 year olds.


----------



## tomatopaste

cratter said:


> Have you been on earth very long? It's not uncommon for these type of companies to reinvest a lot of money and not show a profit for a long time.


Yeah, actually it is uncommon. The only company you can point to is Amazon, and even that is a bogus comparison.


----------



## goneubering

heynow321 said:


> That's a little generous....although berkely does teach people to behave like 12 year olds.


Does Berkeley also teach their students the Double Down On Dumb strategy??!!


----------



## tomatopaste

phillipzx3 said:


> Tesla has made plenty of profit. Just because there are no dividends being paid to stock holders means nothing. And your comparison of Tesla and Enron is so wrong it's not worth wasting time to explain. It's obvious you have a pimple on your ass over Tesla, but there's no need to pull a Trump. ;-)


No, Tesla has made revenue. Tesla has never made a profit


----------



## phillipzx3

25rides7daysaweek said:


> uber is making more than $25,000 a year on me. thats just one guy driving one car in one city. the business is already up and should be making money. if they are losing $ its being blown or pocketed. they are so full of crap and lie about everything. if people are investing money they probably be just as well off buying the brooklyn bridge from a bum that lives under it.


Bullshit!



tomatopaste said:


> No, Tesla has made revenue. Tesla has never made a profit


Here's a thought...Don't buy the stock and don't buy one of their cars. It's really that simple. Or must you keep yapping about it like a junk yard dog?  Meanwhile Musk ( and his group of very talented engineers) are moving forward no matter what you believe.


----------



## cratter

> The only company you can point to is Amazon.


You're kidding right?

Apple Computers wouldn't exist except a last minute bailout by Microsoft in 1997.

Took Facebook and Google years to make a "profit."

Even if a company like Sears and Kmart have made profits. It doesn't mean anything.


----------



## goneubering

phillipzx3 said:


> Here's a thought...Don't buy the stock and don't buy one of their cars. It's really that simple. Or must you keep yapping about it like a junk yard dog?  Meanwhile Musk ( and his group of very talented engineers) are moving forward no matter what you believe.


Tomato should be shorting Tesla if he believes all the funny things he posts.


----------



## tomatopaste

phillipzx3 said:


> Bullshit!
> 
> Here's a thought...Don't buy the stock and don't buy one of their cars. It's really that simple. Or must you keep yapping about it like a junk yard dog?  Meanwhile Musk ( and his group of very talented engineers) are moving forward no matter what you believe.


At least the ones that haven't left yet.
SOME EMPLOYEES HAVE LEFT TESLA OVER THE WAY THE COMPANY MARKETS AUTOPILOT

https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/24/...ot-confirmed-engineers-safety-concerns-report



goneubering said:


> Tomato should be shorting Tesla if he believes all the funny things he posts.


If you don't short Tesla, what would you short?

"From a return-on-investment-capital standpoint, Tesla is a catastrophe." "The electric-car maker has been burning money at a clip of about $8,000 a minute (or $480,000 an hour.)" "Tesla is losing a massive amount of money with no competition, and yet massive competition is coming."

Jim Chanos summarized all of the reasons why nicely: "If you wouldn't be short a multi-billion-dollar loss-making enterprise in a cyclical business, with a leveraged balance sheet, questionable accounting, every executive leaving, run by a CEO with a questionable relationship with the truth, what would you be short?

https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/26/in-praise-of-teslas-bankruptcy/


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

tomatopaste said:


> You mean paying pax.


No. An engineer or fake pax are not customers.
Companies run on revenue, or go under.
You still don't seem to get that


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> No. An engineer or fake pax are not customers.
> Companies run on revenue, or go under.
> You still don't seem to get that


pas·sen·ger
ˈpasinjər/
_noun_

a traveler on a public or private conveyance other than the driver, pilot, or crew.
synonyms: traveler, commuter, fare, rider; 
pax
"rail passengers"


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Very good. Now look up CUSTOMER.


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Very good. Now look up CUSTOMER.


Two Fiddy the day Waymo figures out what's wrong with the payment section of the app:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/ad75323ff802e7e567267e7a43cf92a0/tenor.gif?itemid=4652928


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Very good. Now look up CUSTOMER.


Looks like Waymo's ready to launch with your real pax and your real customers. What's your take, P-Diddy?

Waymo, the Alphabet (GOOGL) autonomous-car unit, announced Tuesday at AutoMobility LA that it's ready to put passengers in self-driving cars - without an accompanying test or backup driver.

The change that is "coming soon" would mark a key milestone for Waymo, which already has been testing its autonomous minivans on public roads in Arizona without a safety driver behind the wheel.
https://www.investors.com/news/goog...-with-passengers-no-human-driver-coming-soon/


----------



## ShinyAndChrome

tomatopaste said:


> Fact check: True


It won't be that soon. Even if they mastered self driving cars in that time line uber wouldn't have the wheels on the ground to serve all the customers.


----------



## Bubsie

How do these automated cars handle roads where the center line is obscured by snow and you basically have to use your judgement as to where the road and shoulder are?

And then the other question, obviously Uber has knowledge of where the rider wants to go. So if they know the rider just wants to go a mile down the block, and the self driving car is 8 minutes away......rider sees "no cars available"? Or does this guaranteed loss fare then get benevolently pinged out to the poor sap human drivers that remain.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

No one has put $1 into a market study to see if there's even a market for these things.
Hey, I have an idea! Let's sink 50 billion into R&D for robot cars. Customers? Don't worry about customers...


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4

TwoFiddyMile said:


> No one has put $1 into a market study to see if there's even a market for these things.
> Hey, I have an idea! Let's sink 50 billion into R&D for robot cars. Customers? Don't worry about customers...


All they have to do is blow enough hot hair to keep the balloon afloat until they can sell it to suckers...

That does not require making any money or having any customers past getting their SDVs on the road.


----------



## Just Another Uber Drive

TwoFiddyMile said:


> No one has put $1 into a market study to see if there's even a market for these things.
> Hey, I have an idea! Let's sink 50 billion into R&D for robot cars. Customers? Don't worry about customers...


I'm assuming there is military interest.


----------



## tomatopaste

Bubsie said:


> How do these automated cars handle roads where the center line is obscured by snow and you basically have to use your judgement as to where the road and shoulder are?
> 
> And then the other question, obviously Uber has knowledge of where the rider wants to go. So if they know the rider just wants to go a mile down the block, and the self driving car is 8 minutes away......rider sees "no cars available"? Or does this guaranteed loss fare then get benevolently pinged out to the poor sap human drivers that remain.


Self driving cars don't rely on lane markings. They have an onboard 3D map and compare landmarks on the side of the road: signs, posts, etc, that its senors see with the 3D map.






The self driving taxi company, I don't think Uber is going to survive, will price all trips so that they're profitable.

https://www.wired.com/story/hidden-evidence-uber-waymo-self-driving-car/



TwoFiddyMile said:


> No one has put $1 into a market study to see if there's even a market for these things.
> Hey, I have an idea! Let's sink 50 billion into R&D for robot cars. Customers? Don't worry about customers...


No one put $1 into a market study to determine if men find her attractive.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

tomatopaste said:


> Self driving cars don't rely on lane markings. They have and onboard 3D map and compare landmarks on the side, signs, posts etc, that its senors see with the 3D map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The self driving taxi company, I don't think Uber is going to survive, will price all trips so that they're profitable.
> 
> https://www.wired.com/story/hidden-evidence-uber-waymo-self-driving-car/
> 
> No one put $1 into a market study to determine if men find her attractive.
> 
> View attachment 179883


The modelling industry puts millions into market research alongside Madison Avenue.
Seriously, stick to the geek stuff. You really know next to nothing about business.


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> The modelling industry puts millions into market research alongside Madison Avenue.
> Seriously, stick to the geek stuff. You really know next to nothing about business.


No one put $1 into a market study to determine if men find her attractive. They didn't need to, she's a ten.

Self driving cars are a ten.



tomatopaste said:


> No one put $1 into a market study to determine if men find her attractive. They didn't need to, she's a ten.
> 
> Self driving cars are a ten.


My standard reaction to the vaunted "UP community's" geniusness.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

80% of consumers fear self driving cars:
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...e-autonomous-cars-ethical-20170912-story.html


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> 80% of consumers fear self driving cars:
> http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...e-autonomous-cars-ethical-20170912-story.html


100% of consumers have never ridden in a self driving car and 90% don't understand how they work. When they do, 97.8 percent will say it's a no-brainer.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

tomatopaste said:


> 100% of consumers have never ridden in a self driving car and 90% don't understand how they work. When they do, 97.8 percent will say it's a no-brainer.


Ok


----------



## Taxi Driver in Arizona

We should start a pool and bet on which tech company goes bankrupt first. Tesla? Uber? Lyft?


----------



## heynow321

My money is on tsla or lyft


----------



## tomatopaste

heynow321 said:


> My money is on tsla or lyft


I think Lyft is bought by either GM or Google. They need Lyft to stay alive to handle rides outside of their 3D mapped areas until all cities are fully mapped. Tesla is a goner. Might be scrapped for parts. Uber's going to the pokey.

*Uber paid off ex-employee to 'settle' blackmailing situation*

The testimony irritated Judge William Alsup, who told Padilla he couldn't "trust anything you say because it's been proven wrong so many times."
Alsup remarked to Uber during the hearing, "You're just making the impression that this is a total cover-up."
"That is a lot of money," Alsup said, referring to the settlement. "And people don't pay that kind of money for BS. And you certainly don't hire them as consultants if you think everything they've got to contribute is BS."
Federal prosecutors are also investigating the matter, raising the possibility of criminal charges.
https://nypost.com/2017/11/29/uber-paid-off-ex-employee-to-settle-blackmailing-situation/


----------



## Lowestformofwit

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> We should start a pool and bet on which tech company goes bankrupt first. Tesla? Uber? Lyft?


British bookmakers, famous for betting on anything and everything, are probably already taking bets on this.
Particularly after Uber's London woes.


----------



## ABC123DEF

TwoFiddyMile said:


> And bad at fractions.


3/2 = 1.5 ...so he's 1.5 of a tomato, robot, and human kind of thing...or something?


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

ABC123DEF said:


> 3/2 = 1.5 ...so he's 1.5 of a tomato, robot, and human kind of thing...or something?


Correct.


----------



## Chris1973

Why aren't these vile monstrosities being tested in icy winter conditions?


----------



## goneubering

Chris1973 said:


> Why aren't these vile monstrosities being tested in icy winter conditions?


They're obviously cherry picking.


----------



## tomatopaste

Chris1973 said:


> Why aren't these vile monstrosities being tested in icy winter conditions?


----------



## tomatopaste

Chris1973 said:


> Why aren't these vile monstrosities being tested in icy winter conditions?


I'm beginning to believe this is your average Uber driver. Which is sad.


----------



## Chris1973

tomatopaste said:


> I'm beginning to believe this is your average Uber driver. Which is sad.


See my featured thread sir (pats self on back), I am moving on up


----------



## heynow321

tomatopaste said:


> View attachment 180645


lol greg thinks this is an acceptable form of debate.

"they're testing in snow, therefore it's totally viable!" is how greg thinks. there's a reason you don't see them in seattle or the northwest or the northeast or any major metropolitan area. they can't handle these areas....you know...the areas where demand for taxi's is the highest. Read the latest review of a Cruise ride in the autonomous section. they're still a pathetic joke and drive like an autistic teenager would drive.

what an impossible job you have greg. it's like trying to defend enron or madoff. i hope they're paying you well for this propaganda.


----------



## tomatopaste

heynow321 said:


> lol greg thinks this is an acceptable form of debate.
> 
> "they're testing in snow, therefore it's totally viable!" is how greg thinks. there's a reason you don't see them in seattle or the northwest or the northeast or any major metropolitan area. they can't handle these areas....you know...the areas where demand for taxi's is the highest. Read the latest review of a Cruise ride in the autonomous section. they're still a pathetic joke and drive like an autistic teenager would drive.
> 
> what an impossible job you have greg. it's like trying to defend enron or madoff. i hope they're paying you well for this propaganda.



Waymo started cold weather testing in 2012, including recent efforts near Lake Tahoe, but wants to give its self-driving technology more practice driving in snow, sleet and ice so it can assess how its sensors perform in wet, cold conditions. The testing will enable Waymo to build on the advanced driving skills developed so far, like how to handle skidding on icy, unplowed roads. Its goal is to make fully self-driving cars that can operate safely and smoothly in any environment.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannm...aching-cars-to-drive-themselves/#264696fd5d68


----------



## heynow321

Thanks for making my point gregster rofl


----------



## tomatopaste

heynow321 said:


> Thanks for making my point gregster rofl


Your point was that Google has been working on cold weather testing since 2012? I guess I missed that.


----------



## heynow321

Swing and a miss


----------



## tomatopaste

heynow321 said:


> Thanks for making my point gregster rofl


When you teach a baby to walk, do you throw it off a moving train and yell: TUCK AND ROLL, TUCK AND ROLL! You don't, do you? No, baby steps.


----------



## roadman

goneubering said:


> Sure thing. That's why smart investors value Uber at around $50 billion. They might have a better handle on business than you.


But Uber was valued at 69 billion just last year when Saudi Arabia invested 3.5billion. Wow Uber lost 19 billion in valuation in one year.



tomatopaste said:


> A gang of self driving cars is going to do donuts on your front lawn at 3 in the morning. Let's see how you like that.


99 cent road flare will fix.


----------



## goneubering

roadman said:


> But Uber was valued at 69 billion just last year when Saudi Arabia invested 3.5billion. Wow Uber lost 19 billion in valuation in one year.
> 
> 99 cent road flare will fix.


The possible loss in value was caused by TK's mismanagement in my opinion. Now that he's on the sidelines I expect the Uber chaos to mostly subside. I say even the lower $50 billion valuation is too still high but I don't have access to the inside information that these huge investors have.


----------



## DRIVER-99

Fubernuber said:


> Long term value can happen if uber had a turf and i.p. What exactly does uber have in i.p. and what turf do they own? They have exactly the oposite of a good recipe. Vast majority of their riders are very price sensetive and dont care about the quality or name of the ride servicing their account. Uber is &%[email protected]!*ed and its only a matter of the next economic downturn to put them out of business. When that happens you will see a fundamental shift in investing. Tech comoanies that dont nake a profit will not be deemed investable and certainly they will not be able to generate money worth countless times more than mature brands.


L.p.

Here lately business is way down from where e.je it used to be. Dont know what the problem is, eeEmaybe bad press, time of the year, but its not a goeod sign
Beem online for an hour and no pings 
Im in Emeryville, ca (between Oakland & Berkeley and business has never neen this slow.


----------



## tomatopaste

DRIVER-99 said:


> L.p.
> 
> Here lately business is way down from where e.je it used to be. Dont know what the problem is, eeEmaybe bad press, time of the year, but its not a goeod sign
> Beem online for an hour and no pings
> Im in Emeryville, ca (between Oakland & Berkeley and business has never neen this slow.


One of Waymo's first cities after Phoenix will be Mountain View. Expect self driving Chrysler mini vans in Mountain View within six months. Between Waymo and GM the entire Bay Area is toast within a year and a half. If you're relying on Uber for anything other than beer money, change that now.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Uber has Waymo paying pax.


----------



## tomatopaste

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Uber has Waymo paying pax.


Good idea to get all your posts that won't age well out at the same time so they're less painful when they come back to bite you in the butt. Then again, some people enjoy getting bit in the butt.


----------

