# Once the $600/week FREE CHEESE unemployment starts, will any ants here just take a 4-month staycation?



## jeanocelot

It looks like anyone that has been self-employed will get this $600/week, even if the state doesn't give anything for it. And the rule that any money made will be deducted dollar for dollar by any income earned will still be in effect. Thus, any ant that ekes out less than $600 will essentially be working for free - although those who have low car expenses could still make something by having the federal mileage rate be higher than the actual rate - and only after that $600 will earnings not be implicitly taxed away at 100%.

This ant will be taking it easy in the mound.

It will feel like this for our tormentors:


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## doyousensehumor

We'll see. I would have expected more drivers to be quitting now that Trump signed the bill

If the drivers that are driving right now end up logging off so they can collect unemployment, I would expect a shortage of drivers and longer wait times for the passengers


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## ABC123DEF

It'll be interesting to see how all this plays out. Smart drivers could finally get out and try to move on to something else. Maybe new drivers are harder to come by. Maybe Uber starts the relentless recruiting efforts once again? Interesting times.


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## Legalizeit0

I think OP has a point - if U/L is your only job, why would you work? 

It's people that have real jobs that make extra doing RS that will be back on the road.


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## ABC123DEF

Many of the people that have 'real jobs' might also say, "eff this" once and for all. More of them may become even more aware of the multitude of risks involved that come with doing this crap long term - even if it's just part time - and realize that maybe they've gotten whatever it was that they needed from doing Uber/Lyft. When it's time to move on, it's time to move on.


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## Fletch2020

ABC123DEF said:


> Many of the people that have 'real jobs' might also say, "eff this" once and for all. More of them may become even more aware of the multitude of risks involved that come with doing this crap long term - even if it's just part time - and realize that maybe they've gotten whatever it was that they needed from doing Uber/Lyft. When it's time to move on, it's time to move on.


If a crap load of drivers quit and stay home and eat cheetos collecting free money versus putting useless miles on car, if in city like Seattle Uber X shoots back up to 30+ an hour all the part timers who have real jobs will be back out there mining the Corona fields.


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## jeanocelot

Legalizeit0 said:


> I think OP has a point - if U/L is your only job, why would you work?
> 
> It's people that have real jobs that make extra doing RS that will be back on the road.


Yes, hustlers who have regular jobs will be incentivized to continue. This will actually help prove that redistribution should be done as an add-on to, not a replacement of, work - so as to incentivize folks to continue to work.


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## Reynob Moore

I for one plan on milking not only the systems **** but the girl at the asian massage parlor for as long as possible.


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## ANT 7

There has to be trips out there for this to make sense though.

Where I am, there are almost none. My income dropped 75%..........as my trip count went from 15-25 a day to 4-5.

I'm staying home because when driving Uber X I cannot maintain the 2 meter social distance requirement, and also, I don't work for free when I am getting $500 CAD a week from the 'gubmint.

Uber is actively discouraging people from travelling as well. Every single time you open the rider app.


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## Invisible

I will not be returning to R/S, even when this chaos subsides. I’m looking for permanent work. 

The last week I worked partially I had a whopping 7 rides in 3 days. Four of those rides were on the Mon before St. Party’s Day. Even days before that, it was very slow. 

Once I’m able to, I’m taking the Civil Service exam and looking at different avenues to find traditional employment. I am done with gig work, the instability and the extra risks for less reward. I want and need more of a safety net.


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## XLnoGas

I no longer see this gig business as lucrative. Going to update my resume.


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## Jihad Me At Hello

Legalizeit0 said:


> I think OP has a point - if U/L is your only job, why would you work?
> 
> It's people that have real jobs that make extra doing RS that will be back on the road.


I wish, my wife made me drop r/s in March and food delivery in April lol. But my day job cut me on the last day of January of this year so I've had my state 360.00 plus the 600.00....

The staycation looks nice and I've already updated my certs w/ one additional I never bothered to get before (CompTIA A+). But boredom is a thing lol. Can only read and work out so often per day.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

Invisible said:


> I will not be returning to R/S, even when this chaos subsides. I'm looking for permanent work.
> 
> The last week I worked partially I had a whopping 7 rides in 3 days. Four of those rides were on the Mon before St. Party's Day. Even days before that, it was very slow.
> 
> Once I'm able to, I'm taking the Civil Service exam and looking at different avenues to find traditional employment. I am done with gig work, the instability and the extra risks for less reward. I want and need more of a safety net.


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## Young Kim

Practically everyone I know who drove Uber before and is still driving for the low low number of pings say that will completely stop once the first payment hits their bank account. They told me it is not worth the risk (virus or increased violence against RS drivers).


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## kingcorey321

My girl friend has it for 26 week . Some how shes actually making the same on unemployment as working ? LOL
I filed for her and filled in the income accurate directly from her check stub and they are with holding taxes . 
I talked her into just letting the unemployment running out take the entire summer off ! 
Were going to take the motor home across country for a month very soon .


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## Iann

I'm sitting it out. Less miles on the car.


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## TemptingFate

Reynob Moore said:


> I for one plan on milking not only the systems chest but the girl at the asian massage parlor for as long as possible.


I think you're doing it wrong.


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## Young Kim

It appears that as I read the comments on YouTube of Uber and Lyft drivers, most all have stopped driving and are waiting for their states unemployment and 600 dollar a week payment to hit. Many bartenders and waitresses that I have been bringing around Chicago have told me they are making more every week on unemployment than their regular previous jobs and will collect without seeking new work for the duration of the 4 months and then apply for an extension when that time elapses.

I myself am definitely working and making a LOT less, but I like others will hope that Illinois has their system in place as promised, but I am prepared to be disappointed because the state is so broke that I fear they will fight this on gig workers as long as they can.


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## Las Vegas Dude

I wonder how UI would know if your still doing gig work while collecting the 600 bucks a week as none of the companies report to the states UI cause your not employees.


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## TemptingFate

Las Vegas Dude said:


> I wonder how UI would know if your still doing gig work while collecting the 600 bucks a week as none of the companies report to the states UI cause your not employees.


Have any Uber drivers received UI payments yet?


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## SHalester

TemptingFate said:


> Have any Uber drivers received UI payments yet?


me me me me. UI and the $600. More than what I made doing RS. Woohoo.



Las Vegas Dude said:


> I wonder how UI would know if your still doing gig work while collecting the 600 bucks a week as none of the companies report to the states UI cause your not employees.


Fraud alert.


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## oldfart

Las Vegas Dude said:


> I wonder how UI would know if your still doing gig work while collecting the 600 bucks a week as none of the companies report to the states UI cause your not employees.


I thought the same thing. But I didn't want to say it out loud

I haven't driven in 3 weeks except I did go out 2 days for a total of 3 hours and 6 rides as a test. My conclusion is that there are enough rides to keep the few drivers still working busy. If I get the unemployment $600 and the $1200 stimulus and the disaster $1000 advance and the PPP $11000, I'll stay home for another month or so. But when I do go back to work, if I can't gross at least $1000 a week. Ill go home again. Or I'll lie to the unemployment office




SHalester said:


> me me me me. UI and the $600. More than what I made doing RS. Woohoo.
> 
> 
> Fraud alert.


exactly right


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## TemptingFate

SHalester said:


> me me me me


I guess you live in California where drivers have been classified as employees. What about other states?


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## SHalester

oldfart said:


> $1000 advance and the PPP $11000


you have employees?


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## goneubering

SHalester said:


> me me me me. UI and the $600. More than what I made doing RS. Woohoo.
> 
> 
> Fraud alert.


Great!! Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you have a W-2 job in addition to rideshare?


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## SHalester

TemptingFate said:


> I guess you live in California where drivers have been classified as employees. What about other states?


oh, that's kinda funny. In calif AB5 is stuck in the courts. We are not considered employees yet. No W4's have been filled out. I had to manually enter my RS gigs, they were not listed.
Nope, beyond the changes Uber did on their own, there were exactly no other changes in calif yet.


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## oldfart

SHalester said:


> you have employees?


I'm self employed. With one employee; me


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## SHalester

oldfart said:


> With one employee; me


How would you certify for the advance and PPP? They are designed for small biz with a payroll......


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## oldfart

SHalester said:


> How would you certify for the advance and PPP? They are designed for small biz with a payroll......


they are open to the self employed as well.

The big problem I see is that the bottom line on my schedule C is zero but if I am able to submit actual expenses my income and/or my bank deposits I can show an income


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## SHalester

oldfart said:


> they are open to the self employed as well.


I've seen a few post that here, but no details on how they think they can certify. They are not employers, they have no payroll, no employees. Pretty sure a driver was not the intended target of congress. More so to keep employees from being laid off or worse from an actual business. Odd.


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## oldfart

SHalester said:


> I've seen a few post that here, but no details on how they think they can certify. They are not employers, they have no payroll, no employees. Pretty sure a driver was not the intended target of congress. More so to keep employees from being laid off or worse from an actual business. Odd.


You are just wrong on this. The self employed and contract workers are included. My cashflow is my payroll (and my income) Banks however made it difficult to apply. Bank of America wouldn't talk to me. When PayPal got approval to do these loans I applied through them. Unfortunately the money ran out the same day I submitted my application.


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## SHalester

oldfart said:


> You are just wrong on this


maybe, maybe not. Bottom line congress was not intending to aim for drivers. NO way a single driver can prove payroll or employees. However, if the crush of apps if they were approved I guess good for them. Seems to be a game to me; let's see if I can claim and get approved because they aren't looking very closely at the details. 
To each their own. Hopefully oversight will catch up.


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## Joe Knob

TemptingFate said:


> Have any Uber drivers received UI payments yet?


I've been certifying my weeks for my $0 weekly payout, but I received msgs that the $600 stimulus will kick in if I qualify.. just going to wait and see if that actually happens before I start grinding



Young Kim said:


> It appears that as I read the comments on YouTube of Uber and Lyft drivers, most all have stopped driving and are waiting for their states unemployment and 600 dollar a week payment to hit. Many bartenders and waitresses that I have been bringing around Chicago have told me they are making more every week on unemployment than their regular previous jobs and will collect without seeking new work for the duration of the 4 months and then apply for an extension when that time elapses.
> 
> I myself am definitely working and making a LOT less, but I like others will hope that Illinois has their system in place as promised, but I am prepared to be disappointed because the state is so broke that I fear they will fight this on gig workers as long as they can.


I guess they WANT us to stay home and will pay us to do so! But if that's the case, who the hell is going to drive during this time? I guess that's the big question for this forum.. They need SOME drivers still. This monkey farm doesn't operate without us


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## Uber's Guber

Most ants will trade this gig for $600 a MONTH! :biggrin:


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## DeadHeadDriver

Las Vegas Dude said:


> I wonder how UI would know if your still doing gig work while collecting the 600 bucks a week as none of the companies report to the states UI cause your not employees.


*******Surely LUber & Gryft have _*already*_ (since Covid19) offered to send ant earnings (by SSN) to ant's State Unemployment databases -------when they get stood-up... RS view reporting drivers pitiful earnings to States as way to ensure States still turn blind-eye to blatant mis-classification of all of us as IC ants.

If States demanded weekly earnings information reported from Luber/Gryft that would cover 85% of "off book work" by unemployed.


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## oldfart

SHalester said:


> maybe, maybe not. Bottom line congress was not intending to aim for drivers. NO way a single driver can prove payroll or employees. However, if the crush of apps if they were approved I guess good for them. Seems to be a game to me; let's see if I can claim and get approved because they aren't looking very closely at the details.
> To each their own. Hopefully oversight will catch up.


I wonder where you get your information
read this from the us treasury website. For the "straight scoop"

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/PPP--Fact-Sheet.pdf

*Who can apply*

*All businesses* - including nonprofits, veterans organizations, Tribal business concerns, sole proprietorships*, self-employed* *individuals*, and independent contractors - with 500 or fewer employees can apply. Businesses in certain industries can have more than 500 employees if they meet applicable SBA employee-based size standards for those industries

*What counts as payroll costs? *

Payroll costs include:
 Salary, wages, commissions, or tips (capped at $100,000 on an annualized basis for each employee);
 Employee benefits including costs for vacation, parental, family, medical, or sick leave; allowance for separation or dismissal; payments required for the provisions of group health care benefits including insurance premiums; and payment of any retirement benefit;
 State and local taxes assessed on compensation; and
 *For a sole proprietor or independent contractor: wages, commissions, income, or net earnings from self-employment, c*apped at $100,000 on an annualized basis for each employee.

how do I document my income? Bank deposits from Uber and Lyft as well as the credit card payments for private rides that are run through PayPal. I also have a log book with entries for every ride and I have the income summariies from Uber and Lyft


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## SHalester

oldfart said:


> I wonder where you get your information


Same place you do. However, congress's intent was never to help somebody with no employees. My opinion is a single person should only get approved once all other legit businesses with real employees are assisted first. Color me mean, but it is what it is. I understand it is all about 'me' and heck with everyone else. No wonder SBA ran out of $$ and now needs another zillion dollars. Hopefully they tighten the certification process.


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## oldfart

What you are not hearing is that we are self employed. Ie I own my business and I am employed by that business 

and the info put out by the treasury makes it clear that taking care of the self employed is one of the goals of this program

I just got my email from PayPal letting me know what I have to do next. and that is to calculate my “payroll” and verify it You have been asking how can I verify or certify my earnings. And bank records is acceptable documentation

When I first came to this forum I posted that I see two kinds of Uber drivers. There are those that see this as a job and those that see it as a business. In order to see the ppp program the way I do you need to begin thinking of this thing as a business

I still may not get the loan, But I’m going to try


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## SHalester

oldfart said:


> What you are not hearing is that we are self employed


I hear. I just disagree it is for drivers. Congress's intent were businesses with employees. You know, prevent them from being let go? 
You apply, you get approved, great for you. But don't try to sell to me you are a business with employees; you ain't. Nuff said.


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## oldfart

SHalester said:


> I hear. I just disagree it is for drivers. Congress's intent were businesses with employees. You know, prevent them from being let go?
> You apply, you get approved, great for you. But don't try to sell to me you are a business with employees; you ain't. Nuff said.


I don't need to sell anything to you. I was a salesman for a lot of years. Now I drive.

my intent here is simply to let others know what's possible and what I'm doing. If someone can add to what I've posted or post their experience with the program that would be great. If someone learns from what we have posted that would be good too

what I don't want, is to discourage anyone that is not working because of the virus, or whose income has gone down because of the virus, from applying for assistance whether it be unemployment, PPP or the SBA disaster loan or all three


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## Mash Ghasem

ANT 7 said:


> I'm staying home because when driving Uber X I cannot maintain the 2 meter social distance requirement, and also, I don't work for free when I am getting $500 CAD a week from the 'gubmint.


The metric system is giving you the advantage of almost 10% farther social distancing over our 6' requirement!


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## TemptingFate

Mash Ghasem said:


> The metric system is giving you the advantage of almost 10% farther social distancing over our 6' requirement!


That extra half foot safety margin is negated by their currency being 42% weaker than the US dollar.


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## jeanocelot

If it means anything, I had applied a while back with Appen for online work, and they finally got back to me, but with my $700/week gig with Uncle Sam, I told them I'm not interested anymore.



Las Vegas Dude said:


> I wonder how UI would know if your still doing gig work while collecting the 600 bucks a week as none of the companies report to the states UI cause your not employees.


They will know once U/L reports the 1099 to Uncle Sam.


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## SHalester

oldfart said:


> , PPP


another program not for a driver. For folks who get a 'pay check'. sheesh. Can we spell fraud?


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## UberSense

jeanocelot said:


> It looks like anyone that has been self-employed will get this $600/week, even if the state doesn't give anything for it. And the rule that any money made will be deducted dollar for dollar by any income earned will still be in effect. Thus, any ant that ekes out less than $600 will essentially be working for free - although those who have low car expenses could still make something by having the federal mileage rate be higher than the actual rate - and only after that $600 will earnings not be implicitly taxed away at 100%.
> 
> This ant will be taking it easy in the mound.
> 
> It will feel like this for our tormentors:


It will be a challenge for Uber and Lyft drivers to prove the Covid qualifier. If you have an Amazon account go read the ebook "Direct Hire: Winning the Job Search Game" under Job Loss great response for drivers seeking PUA benefits.


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## LetsBeSmart

SHalester said:


> I hear. I just disagree it is for drivers. Congress's intent were businesses with employees. You know, prevent them from being let go?
> You apply, you get approved, great for you. But don't try to sell to me you are a business with employees; you ain't. Nuff said.


My read was independent contractors period and of course small business with employees.


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## SHalester

LetsBeSmart said:


> My read was independent contractors period and of course small business with employees.


key word there is 'emloyees'. a single contractor is not an employee.


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## LetsBeSmart

SHalester said:


> key word there is 'emloyees'. a single contractor is not an employee.


Honestly, I don't have the energy to get into the "emloyee thing you post", there are single contractors out there and I think many who have been providing for this US community for centuries, the bill they pass would not make logical sense to exclude them, so without getting into it further, I am sure you are some right wing greedy individual who thinks as long as you and your own do well that's all that matters, I would say you are mistaken, the truth is the only ones who can save us are the rich, we know this but then again how do you rape and pillage us again, shit, of course you will save us.


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## oldfart

SHalester said:


> key word there is 'emloyees'. a single contractor is not an employee.


We have had this discussion in another thread. You were wrong there and you are wrong here

Here is what is on the SBA website (emphasis is mine)

*Who Can Apply*
The following entities affected by Coronavirus (COVID-19) may be eligible:

Any small business concern that meets SBA's size standards (either the industry based sized standard or the alternative size standard)
Any business, 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, 501(c)(19) veterans organization, or Tribal business concern (sec. 31(b)(2)(C) of the Small Business Act) with the greater of:
500 employees, or
That meets the SBA industry size standard if more than 500

Any business with a NAICS Code that begins with 72 (Accommodations and Food Services) that has more than one physical location and employs less than 500 per location
*Sole proprietors, independent contractors, and self-employed persons*


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## SHalester

oldfart said:


> You were wrong there and you are wrong here


nope. You misunderstood what I was saying. KInda makes you wrong. Congress's intent was to 'save; employees' pay checks. You as a driver are not an employee. You can jump up and down, do a dance, set your hair on fire. You are not employed. You don't have or get a payroll check. You pay nobody else via payroll. You are simply not the intended target regardless of how many times you post the same info.

Now you are caught up. And if you apply and you get approved and you get funds; great for you. But, please, you are not an employee in any reality. Show me a W4 and a W2 and I'll believe your 'opinion'.

Nuff said.


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## LetsBeSmart

SHalester said:


> nope. You misunderstood what I was saying. KInda makes you wrong. Congress's intent was to 'save; employees' pay checks. You as a driver are not an employee. You can jump up and down, do a dance, set your hair on fire. You are not employed. You don't have or get a payroll check. You pay nobody else via payroll. You are simply not the intended target regardless of how many times you post the same info.
> 
> Now you are caught up. And if you apply and you get approved and you get funds; great for you. But, please, you are not an employee in any reality. Show me a W4 and a W2 and I'll believe your 'opinion'.
> 
> Nuff said.


Wrong again, dude you are awesome who is your hero, Hitler, Mao Zedong or maybe Idi Amin


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## Ubertool

Cheese is yummy , but too much is bad for your health . The ones who eat their cheese too fast will be crying for more cheese , word to the masses , save your cheese for a rainy day , as it has not started pouring yet , just a light drizzle


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## oldfart

SHalester said:


> nope. You misunderstood what I was saying. KInda makes you wrong. Congress's intent was to 'save; employees' pay checks. You as a driver are not an employee. You can jump up and down, do a dance, set your hair on fire. You are not employed. You don't have or get a payroll check. You pay nobody else via payroll. You are simply not the intended target regardless of how many times you post the same info.
> 
> Now you are caught up. And if you apply and you get approved and you get funds; great for you. But, please, you are not an employee in any reality. Show me a W4 and a W2 and I'll believe your 'opinion'.
> 
> Nuff said.


sorry, not nuff said

you are right to say we are not strictly speaking "employees" and Im not arguing that point, but you are wrong to say that the intent of congress is to exclude the self employed. The only reason Im continuing to beat this dead horse, is that I dont want other drivers to be 
discouraged from applying

The only question I have is regarding proof of earnings, Will they insist on my schedule C (which shows no income) or will bank statements or 1099;s do the trick?.

There is an ethical question that may come up. . If I get the $600/week federal unemployment and the PPP loan do I accept one or the other or both and should I go back to work while continuing to suck on the government tit(s)


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## oldfart

SBA opened up with new money today and apparently they are swamped,

just got this this evening




Dear Ronald Parise,

Thank you for submitting your application for the Paycheck Protection Program loan through PayPal.

Additional program funding allocated by the US Government for the Paycheck Protection Program became available on Monday, April 27. However, the SBA is limiting the number of applications that each provider can process through the SBA to only a few hundred per hour.

Your application is complete and is in line to be processed through the SBA as soon as we are able. Given the SBA application processing volume controls, we anticipate that it will take several days for us to process completed applications through the SBA and to receive the required SBA loan numbers in order to proceed with funding.

We will communicate updates through email. Our contact centers do not have access to the status of your loan, so they will be unable to provide any updates if you call.

Sincerely,

The PayPal Paycheck Protection Program Loan Team​










​


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## oldfart

following up

Regarding my PPP application to PayPal; I just got an email . Gotta say their communication has been great.

Ive highlighted the most important part. This loan, if I get it, is forgivable if I use it for payroll. My problem..at least I hope it will be a problem. Is that I dont see how I can ethically accept, both this forgivable loan and unemployment

Dear Ronald Parise,

We hope that you and your family are healthy and safe.

Thank you for your continued patience. We understand that these are challenging times, and we are working as hard as we can to help secure your funding through the Paycheck Protection Program.

Since the additional funding for the Paycheck Protection Program became available on Monday, April 27, we have processed applications through the SBA as quickly as possible and in accordance with guidance from the SBA. Due to the unprecedented demand, SBA application processing is taking place at a pace slower than anticipated. We still expect that it may take several more days for us to process completed applications through the SBA and to receive the required SBA loan number necessary for funding.

*Your completed application was submitted to the SBA and we are awaiting their response*.

For loan funding to occur, the SBA must accept your application and program funds must remain available. We will continue to communicate updates through email. Our contact centers do not have access to the status of your loan, and they will be unable to provide any updates if you call.

Thank you again for your patience.

Sincerely,

The PayPal Business Financing Solutions Team


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## bigdogk9

i know they turned me down in florida,i will get only the $600,when they get the app up,who knows when that will happen.


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## oldfart

There is a discussion in the Ft Myers/Naples forum that talks about this. It looks like the application on the website has been changed to reflect Pandemic unemployment


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## Jihad Me At Hello

Las Vegas Dude said:


> I wonder how UI would know if your still doing gig work while collecting the 600 bucks a week as none of the companies report to the states UI cause your not employees.


When my day job laid me off a couple of months ago the monetary determination sheet from the state didn't list any uber or lyft money at all, not even sure if they'd ever do so? Not condoning fraud, mind you. You roll the dice you take your chances, I guess.

Stay safe either way


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