# Why the gig economy is a scam



## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/opinions/united-shades-of-america-gig-economy-kamau-bell/index.html
As more Americans are pushed into it due to lack of work + the pandemic, people start to realize the truth about the companies pulling the strings, ah... great depression labor style growth for America wouldn't be so bad if there were something benefiting the country from these companies, say manufacturing or research, rides and deliveries do nothing but make a few clowns money off the ignorance of the masses.


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## KevinJohnson (Mar 23, 2020)

Giving a nurse or doctor a ride to the hospital is beneficial in my view.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

KevinJohnson said:


> Giving a nurse or doctor a ride to the hospital is beneficial in my view.


It is if you do it for free and especially if Uber does not make a profit from it.

That's the problem with the gig economy, the robber barons in control take a large chunk of the money and you are left with crumbs after your labor and costs of using your car.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

OMG people. I'm not going to pretend that the top 0.01% of uber-rich people don't pull the strings in this country. It's always been the case and will always be. No matter the type of government (socialism would only reduce the amount of people pulling the strings...) BUT - you're still the master of your destiny. If you don't like the gig/job, you can always go out and do something else. Unlike a communist, socialist and despotism, a free market capitalist society allows you the freedom to do what you want. It's not always easy, but you have the ability to choose.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

losiglow said:


> OMG people. I'm not going to pretend that the top 0.01% of uber-rich people don't pull the strings in this country. It's always been the case and will always be. No matter the type of government (socialism would only reduce the amount of people pulling the strings...) BUT - you're still the master of your destiny. If you don't like the gig/job, you can always go out and do something else. Unlike a communist, socialist and despotism, a free market capitalist society allows you the freedom to do what you want. It's not always easy, but you have the ability to choose.


I don't think anyone's advocating dismantling capitalism or adopting Bolshevism - it has more to do with ensuring that workers receive a minimum of earnings and benefits such as health care.

Pure capitalism is theoretical only and does not exist anywhere in the world. What we have in the US is a capitalist-socialist hybrid model - predominantly capitalist but with some government control over the means of production (corporate legislation, employment law etc) and the distribution of wealth (taxation, welfare programs etc).


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Another perk is that drivers get to pick up 21 year olds that have had backside surgery. Valuation on that particular ride is about 10,000$.:thumbup:


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I don't think anyone's advocating dismantling capitalism or adopting Bolshevism


Disagree. While it is true that the USA is at best a crony-capitalist-quasi-socialist state, it seems that the main movement is to entirely eliminate the possibility of people to be independent contractors or small business owners and to move towards the direction where the government and select government-approved mega corporations are the only permissible places of employment and places where things are produced or distributed.

Once the governments tentacles are considerably entangled with corporations, the line between public and private industry becomes grey. What is the difference between a factory run by the government, and a "privately" owned factory that is controlled in every minutia by government regulation and only stands to exist because of government favoritism? I suppose the answer is, that the person running the factory gets his money from whatever portion of his proceeds the government agrees he is allowed to keep, whereas in the government run factory, the government takes all the proceeds, and then gives him back an amount that the government considers an acceptable amount.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> Disagree. While it is true that the USA is at best a crony-capitalist-quasi-socialist state, it seems that the main movement is to entirely eliminate the possibility of people to be independent contractors or small business owners and to move towards the direction where the government and select government-approved mega corporations are the only permissible places of employment and places where things are produced or distributed.


There is nothing in AB5 that eliminates the possibility of people being independent contractors or small business owners. What it does is define what an independent contractor is and what an employee is. This had previously been an undefined grey area exploited by a great many companies such as Uber, Lyft, Dynamex, Postmates, Doordash etc.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> There is nothing in AB5 that eliminates the possibility of people being independent contractors or small business owners. What it does is define what an independent contractor is and what an employee is. This had previously been an undefined grey area exploited by a great many companies such as Uber, Lyft, Dynamex, Postmates, Doordash etc.


Lots of IC will/have already lost their jobs unless they can get themselves hired on as employees and AB5 goes way beyond the app companies.

AB5 does not directly make all IC work illegal, it just makes them way more difficult to do.

Death by a thousand cuts.

At the end of the day, as we give the government increasing power, we'll all just be serfs to a new fuedal lord.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> Lots of IC will/have already lost their jobs unless they can get themselves hired on as employees and AB5 goes way beyond the app companies.


This is the hypocrisy of your camp. You guys say:


losiglow said:


> you're still the master of your destiny. If you don't like the gig/job, you can always go out and do something else.


BUT... when it comes time to criticise government interventions then your tune changes to, "Oh, look, these poor people will/have already lost their jobs". What happened to, "ICs are masters of their destinies" and their ability to simply "always go out and do something else"? Holy Switcheroo, Batman! When government doesn't like the conditions, your position suddenly changes. "Masters of destiny" become victims and gigs instantly become "lost jobs". The level contradiction is astounding. You guys have more flip flops than Miami Beach!


> AB5 does not directly make all IC work illegal, it just makes them way more difficult to do.


A friend of mine is a painting and decorating independent contractor. AB5 doesn't make his work either more or less difficult.


> Death by a thousand cuts.


Nobody said that UberLyft must survive.


> At the end of the day, as we give the government increasing power, we'll all just be serfs to a new fuedal lord.


The government is given its power by the Constitution, not by the people. There have been no recent amendments to the Constitution that give additional employment law powers to the government.


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## Don'tchasethesurge (Dec 27, 2016)

Sad part that there are many driver don’t really understand gig economy and spew and Brag how much they make... ppl think gig workers making bank.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> This is the hypocrisy of your camp. You guys say:
> BUT... when it comes time to criticise government interventions then your tune changes to, "Oh, look, these poor people will/have already lost their jobs". What happened to, "ICs are masters of their destinies" and their ability to simply "always go out and do something else" Holy Switcheroo, Batman! When government doesn't like the conditions, your position suddenly changes. "Masters of destiny" become victims and gigs instantly become "lost jobs". The level contradiction is astounding. You guys have more flip flops that Miami Beach!


Basically, what you're saying is that people who enjoy being self-employed or working as contractors should bend over and take it in the rear and work for an approved government corporation as an employee. I got it. The government should ultimately choose what kind of work we do? Say you're a gig musician (many reported losing their gigs after AB5). I guess gig musician guy should be content working at wal-mart where he gets his mandatory health care insurance.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> Basically, what you're saying is that people who enjoy being self-employed or working as contractors should bend over and take it in the rear and work for an approved government corporation as an employee. I got it. The government should ultimately choose what kind of work we do? Say you're a gig musician (many reported losing their gigs after AB5). I guess gig musician guy should be content working at wal-mart where he gets his mandatory health care insurance.


Basically, what you're saying is that Led Zeppelin's "Coda" album was _not _their worst release, and should be ranked alongside the Led Zeppelin, Led Zeppelin II and Led Zeppelin III albums. I got it.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Don'tchasethesurge said:


> Sad part that there are many driver don't really understand gig economy and spew and Brag how much they make... ppl think gig workers making bank.


As long as Uber and Lyft continue to be a thing, I personally will never work for any casino, hotel, or retail outlet ever again. I can easily make more money than they do. Yes, I have to put in more hours, but that is MY CHOICE. I'd rather work twice as long on my own terms if I have to than step on the corporate treadmills as a time-clock punching employee, having to deal with constant harassment from coworkers and bosses.

I dread the day where I am forced to work for a company like that again so I can get "benefits" and "minimum wage".



The Gift of Fish said:


> Basically, what you're saying is that Led Zeppelin's "Coda" album was _not _their worst release, and should be ranked alongside the Led Zeppelin, Led Zeppelin II and Led Zeppelin III albums. I got it.


I'm saying I should be free to choose to make a living in a way of my choice, and not be forced to fit the mold that is deemed best for me by people like you.

I don't care that I could work less hours and have more overall pay doing something else. I don't want to be an employee.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> I dread the day where I am forced to work for a company like that again so I can get "benefits" and "minimum wage".


Nope! You're still not getting this. You're not forced to work for any company. Slavery is illegal in the US.

You are the master of your destiny! If you don't want to work for minimum wage + benefits then you can always go out and do something else!


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## Don'tchasethesurge (Dec 27, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> As long as Uber and Lyft continue to be a thing, I personally will never work for any casino, hotel, or retail outlet ever again. I can easily make more money than they do. Yes, I have to put in more hours, but that is MY CHOICE. I'd rather work twice as long on my own terms if I have to than step on the corporate treadmills as a time-clock punching employee, having to deal with constant harassment from coworkers and bosses.
> 
> I dread the day where I am forced to work for a company like that again so I can get "benefits" and "minimum wage".


not saying it's bad but a lot driver driving really nice car don't really understand what they are truly making...


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> I'm saying I should be free to choose to make a living in a way of my choice, and not be forced to fit the mold that is deemed best for me by people like you.


I wasn't _really _asking you what you were saying. I was being facetious, attributing ridiculous statements to you that you had never said - "straight back atcha" just as you had in your preceding post attributed ridiculous statements to me that I had never said.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> This is the hypocrisy of your camp. You guys say:


You guys say!!!! &#129335;‍♂


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> You guys say!!!! &#129335;‍♂


Yes, I grouped you with Iosiglow under the umbrella of opponents of government intervention. Your response indicates surprise that you were grouped with him. Which of his points of view do you disagree with?



Trafficat said:


> I don't care that I could work less hours and have more overall pay doing something else. I don't want to be an employee.


So look for an independent contractor job! There are plenty available.

The beauty of living in a democracy is that, if you don't like the policies of the government, or the laws that have been passed, you can cast your vote at the next election! Vote those fellas right out of there! Now, it is unlikely that California will ever become Republican. But so be it - the people have spoken! Of course, those who lose elections and can't get into power _because the majority of people don't like or support their policies_ are free to whine and moan and grumble about it. That's also a right given to them in a democracy.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Yes, I grouped you with Iosiglow under the umbrella of opponents of government intervention. Your response indicates surprise that you were grouped with him. Which of his points of view do you disagree with?


I don't feel people have much freedom even now. We are not a very good example of a free market society and by some ranking systems we are actually farther down the list as having a less free market economy than many other countries that supposedly provide shining examples of how the free market should be restrained further here.

We have SOME choices, but they are very limited and with AB5 type laws will become even more limited. When every way of making money is illegal, you pretty much can only choose from what is left.

WHY is it that people drive for Uber? People drive for Uber because it is their BEST option. Then the masses will vote at the polls for "labor reform" in the gig economy. Sure, some Uber drivers might agree with this reform, but have they ever paused for a moment to ask WHY it is that driving for Uber is their best option? Is it the driver's only option or is it their best option of several choices? Why don't they work at a place where these types of labor protections that we supposedly need exist?

I personally suspect that the drivers who want "labor protections" are unknowingly acting against their best interests. I've come to the conclusion that I suffer from a difference in cognitive function from other people that makes me an awful fit for a conventional job. And at the end of the day, that's why I do this work. And I think, the sad truth is that I'm not an uncommon statistic. Many people believe they are entitled to all sorts of "labor protections" yet fail to realize that the absence of those labor protections is exactly why they have an opportunity with Uber that is better than everything else available to them. The people who are most reliant on gig work are the exact people who wouldn't make the cut if gig work was heavily regulated. Those who would make the cut are more likely to do fine in conventional employment situations, so why such energy directed at ending gig work when they could just choose something else?

If you can leave a gig and get a job or leave a job and get a gig, or leave one gig and get another gig, it is BECAUSE of the absence of laws constraining gig work. Should these laws exist, you won't have a gig to leave and you won't have a gig to join. You will either conform to the employment system or you will not work.



> So look for an independent contractor job! There are plenty available.


I already have some, thanks to the lack of the terrible laws like AB5. In my state they actually temporarily made Uber illegal, but they changed back again.

But I dare say that if I could pursue any business idea that came to mind I could actually run a decent business or two. Nearly every good business idea I have seems to be illegal. I've come up with several business ideas and they were all either made illegal before I thought them up or they became illegal shortly after I started trying to pursue them. If not outright illegal, just regulated to the point of unprofitability without having a major upfront investment and economies of scale to work off of.

You shouldn't need to have expensive commercial/industrial zoning and pass inspector compliance checks to sell a piece of hand crafted jewelry. You shouldn't need a special license to cut someone's hair.

I do run some home-based businesses but over the years I increasingly scale them back or have had to work with larger companies that possess certifications to do certain parts that I can no longer process as a "little guy". The regulations are all aimed at large corporations and applied equally towards smaller businesses with an iron fist, and that's exactly the way large corporations want it. They want high barriers to entry.

While I do enjoy rideshare and food delivery, these options really only exist because of the power of the larger corporations that operate them. A little guy would not be allowed to compete. Here, everyone is saying, "Oh these awful corporations exploit gig workers, ban the gig work" when maybe they should instead be asking why it is that gig workers should have to work for these corporations instead of being able to act as their own business entity.

Honestly, how many of us drivers have a long-list of "off-the-books" clients? I dare say a sizeable number of us DO have these lists and will never admit to it because we would be stripped of our licenses if we were not giving 40%+ of the fare to Uber, Lyft, or a major local taxi oligopoly. So what is the real problem, that Uber drivers don't get minimum wage, or the fact that Uber drivers are roped in to giving half of their money to big companies by anti-competitive laws?

If I could be my own taxi company right now, I know of a few places around town where there seems to be an endless supply of people standing around waiting for a taxi/uber/lyft to pick them up. I could just keep driving back to these places and make 100% of the fare. If it was merely a matter of commercial insurance I'd do it. But it isn't. It's essentially impossible to form a new taxi company, at least in my area.



> The beauty of living in a democracy is that, if you don't like the policies of the government, or the laws that have been passed, you can cast your vote at the next election! Vote those fellas right out of there! Now, it is unlikely that California will ever become Republican. But so be it - the people have spoken! Of course, those who lose elections and can't get into power _because the majority of people don't like or support their policies_ are free to whine and moan and grumble about it. That's also a right given to them in a democracy.


Democracy is garbage as a form of government. A good government respects the rights of an individual regardless of majority opinion, and uses a system of checks and balances to override democracy. Democratic decision making is better than non-democratic decision making, but some things should simply not be subject to majority decision.

The right to whine and moan is NOT a right given in a democracy, as we are seeing today. Today there is a strong movement to eliminate the whining and moaning of unpopular information by banning things like the dissemination of "hate speech", "fake news", and "anti-science" information on the internet. The protections in our constitution for free speech are anti-democratic as the judges retain the power to overrule a majority opinion.

The majority opinion is often terrible.

Black slavery in the Southern United States was something the majority agreed with at the time. The Nazis rose to power in Germany because they were the most popular party at the time and they were selected as part of a democratic process. Popular doesn't mean good. It just means the larger plurality is happy with the outcome of a decision instead of the smaller portion of the population.

The only good thing about democracy is that one can presumably try to persuade a majority to make positive change. Realistically, you voting as an individual has almost no impact on the results of a democratic process. On the other hand, whining, moaning, and complaining IS effective. In order to affect change within a democratic system, you must convince a large number of people that you are right. That's not so difficult for objective policies that do not favor specific people, but unfortunately many issues have "losers" and "winners" and the outcome of the vote will depend on the ratio of losers versus winners rather than the righteousness of the issue.

Today, when the majority is voting to redistribute the wealth of the minority, how do you persuade people to vote against their own perceived self-interest? The best I can say is that we all need to have the opportunity to advance and that means that a person should not be punished for advancing... but this falls on deaf ears upon the apathetic majority which has no interest in advancing but merely wants to get lavish reward while doing nothing other than providing common labor, and believes in short term financial gain so they can buy that thing they want right now, over long term economic growth. I believe the market is providing a fair compensation for gig work, and I say this not as a captain of industry but as a gig worker.

Americans are going to get a totalitarian system and likely vote their way into collective poverty but I cannot say that Americans do not deserve this system. People will vote away their liberty and vote for shackles because of their own greed in going after people who are supposedly greedy because of an imbalance of wealth in their favor. I love how a person who possess a lot of money from selling things willingly through free market transactions is considered greedy, but people who want to steal this money for themselves are somehow not seen as greedy.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> We have SOME choices, but they are very limited and with AB5 type laws will become even more limited. When every way of making money is illegal, you pretty much can only choose from what is left.


Going from AB5 to "every way of making money is illegal" is a huge stretch.


> Many people believe they are entitled to all sorts of "labor protections" yet fail to realize that the absence of those labor protections is exactly why they have an opportunity with Uber that is better than everything else available to them.


I haven't seen any evidence that Uber is better than any other opportunity available, for anyone.


> The people who are most reliant on gig work are the exact people who wouldn't make the cut if gig work was heavily regulated.


Gig work isn't going to be regulated - AB5 is essentially the end of gig work at Uber, Lyft, Doordash, Postmates etc. There always have been "unemployables", and there always will be. I think the solution for them is to improve their marketability, or people skills, or behaviour, or whatever it is that makes them unemployable so that they can be successful in their job searches or establishing themselves as genuine IC.


> Those who would make the cut are more likely to do fine in conventional employment situations, so why such energy directed at ending gig work when they could just choose something else?


Gig work's end is not related to workers being able to / not being able to choose something else. This came about because Uberlyft et al have been ducking their contributions to state purses and the state wants its money. It wants unemployment contributions, it wants workers' comp contributions, it wants Uberlyft to pay for healthcare.


> If you can leave a gig and get a job or leave a job and get a gig, or leave one gig and get another gig, it is BECAUSE of the absence of laws constraining gig work. Should these laws exist, you won't have a gig to leave and you won't have a gig to join. You will either conform to the employment system or you will not work.


Correct, AB5 effectively signals the end of gig work at the likes of Uberlyft etc.


> You shouldn't need to have expensive commercial/industrial zoning and pass inspector compliance checks to sell a piece of hand crafted jewelry. You shouldn't need a special license to cut someone's hair.


Red tape / bureacracy is a whole different subject. And yes, there is too much of it in this country.


> While I do enjoy rideshare and food delivery, these options really only exist because of the power of the larger corporations that operate them. A little guy would not be allowed to compete.


There's nothing stopping you from setting up your own rideshare company. Remember, when Kalanick started this he wasn't a large corporation - he was just a dork with a bad haircut and a few tech bro friends. Bankers liked his idea and they liked him so they threw money at him. If you went along with an idea and they liked you and your idea then the same could happen to you. 


> Here, everyone is saying, "Oh these awful corporations exploit gig workers, ban the gig work" when maybe they should instead be asking why it is that gig workers should have to work for these corporations instead of being able to act as their own business entity.


Again, there is nothing stopping anyone setting up as an IC. All AB5 does is define what an IC is versus what an employee is. 


> A good government respects the rights of an individual regardless of majority opinion


No, governing whereby every citizen gets to do as they wish is not governing. It is not possible to make policy _and_ satisfy everyone. Policy making and lawmaking. i.e. governing, involve the process of choosing one option from several available. In democracies we elect representatives to make those decisions for us, by majority opinion of the representatives. In totalitarian states that choice is made by one person. In either case, one choice is made, and inevitably not everyone will be happy with the choice made.


> and uses a system of checks and balances to override democracy.


No idea what you're trying to say with this.


> The right to whine and moan is NOT a right given in a democracy, as we are seeing today.


The existence of this forum proves that it is.


> Today there is a strong movement to eliminate the whining and moaning of unpopular information by banning things like the dissemination of "hate speech", "fake news", and "anti-science" information on the internet.


You equate whining and moaning with hate speech, fake news and anti science, but they are not even remotely related.


> The protections in our constitution for free speech are anti-democratic as the judges retain the power to overrule a majority opinion.


The role of judges is only to interpret the law. Sometimes judges will overrule the orders of subordinate judges, but their role is not to overrule public opinion. They would have no mechanism by which to do this, anyway.


> Black slavery in the Southern United States was something the majority agreed with at the time.


I have seen no contemporary opinion polls from the mid 19th century to either confirm nor refute your claim. However, the slaves were freed not by popular demand, but by Lincoln, who wanted to repatriate them to Africa.


> The Nazis rose to power in Germany because they were the most popular party at the time and they were selected as part of a democratic process.


Incorrect. The Nazis seizing power by illegally forcing through their Enabling Act was far from democratic process.


> Popular doesn't mean good. It just means the larger plurality is happy with the outcome of a decision instead of the smaller portion of the population.


Correct; the democratic process is not concerned with concepts such as "good" or "bad" - it is a political process as opposed to an ethical measuring stick.


> The only good thing about democracy is that one can presumably try to persuade a majority to make positive change. Realistically, you voting as an individual has almost no impact on the results of a democratic process. On the other hand, whining, moaning, and complaining IS effective. In order to affect change within a democratic system, you must convince a large number of people that you are right. That's not so difficult for objective policies that do not favor specific people, but unfortunately many issues have "losers" and "winners" and the outcome of the vote will depend on the ratio of losers versus winners rather than the righteousness of the issue.


Again, correct; that is the way the process works.


> how do you persuade people to vote against their own perceived self-interest?


The best person to ask how he did this would be Trump's 2016 campaign manager.


> I love how a person who possess a lot of money from selling things willingly through free market transactions is considered greedy, but people who want to steal this money for themselves are somehow not seen as greedy.


That argument is based on the foundation that taxation is "theft" of someone else's money. However, that foundation has not been laid or agreed upon. Socialists believe that the tax money in question does _not_ belong to that someone else, so it is not theft, and this is the reason why the tax authorities are legally entitled to take it.


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## SleelWheels (Jun 25, 2019)

The Entomologist said:


> https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/opinions/united-shades-of-america-gig-economy-kamau-bell/index.html
> As more Americans are pushed into it due to lack of work + the pandemic, people start to realize the truth about the companies pulling the strings, ah... great depression labor style growth for America wouldn't be so bad if there were something benefiting the country from these companies, say manufacturing or research, rides and deliveries do nothing but make a few clowns money off the ignorance of the masses.


Rideshare works for me, I don't have a lot of overhead at the moment. It covers my lifestyle.

Just another negative post from someone probably stuck in a miserable 9-5 job living in cookie cutter vinyl sided neighborhood USA and did I mention unhappily married?


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

SleelWheels said:


> Just another negative post from someone probably stuck in a miserable 9-5 job living in cookie cutter vinyl sided neighborhood USA and did I mention unhappily married?


Complains about another guy's post that he claims is negative by .................. making a negative post about the other guy :thumbup:

:roflmao:


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## SleelWheels (Jun 25, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Complains about another guy's post that he claims is negative by .................. making a negative post about the other guy :thumbup:
> 
> :roflmao:


All is fair in love and war.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

SleelWheels said:


> All is fair in love and war.


Nonsensical too, it seems.


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I don't think anyone's advocating dismantling capitalism or adopting Bolshevism - it has more to do with ensuring that workers receive a minimum of earnings and benefits such as health care.
> 
> Pure capitalism is theoretical only and does not exist anywhere in the world. What we have in the US is a capitalist-socialist hybrid model - predominantly capitalist but with some government control over the means of production (corporate legislation, employment law etc) and the distribution of wealth (taxation, welfare programs etc).


If the dude driving you from Orlando to the Cruise I should be paid out 90 percent of the fare which should be actuall faire


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> I don't feel people have much freedom even now. We are not a very good example of a free market society and by some ranking systems we are actually farther down the list as having a less free market economy than many other countries that supposedly provide shining examples of how the free market should be restrained further here.
> 
> We have SOME choices, but they are very limited and with AB5 type laws will become even more limited. When every way of making money is illegal, you pretty much can only choose from what is left.
> 
> ...


&#128175;♥

One of the best posts I have seen on this site. With you 100%


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

SleelWheels said:


> Rideshare works for me, I don't have a lot of overhead at the moment. It covers my lifestyle.
> 
> Just another negative post from someone probably stuck in a miserable 9-5 job living in cookie cutter vinyl sided neighborhood USA and did I mention unhappily married?


Rideshare works for you and I understand that you are happy being IC by name only, if you have nothing left, pick that large block and keep building your pyramid.

I've come to realize "working" has an evolution, it may come as a stunning discovery to you if you are stuck in gig mode.

It starts with 9 to 5 as you get tired of someone breathing down your neck or your coworkers who are morons/dramatic, at that point you enter phase 2, the gig market, full freedom and full of abuse for those who can't add 1 + 1 when it comes to gains vs loss, this is from the standing point of tech companies, they abuse you ( don't get shocked), a gig worker in a different market has to constantly move and look for work, nothing is ever certain, my time in Uber you may ask? I turned the entire "gig" into a very profitable operation, using my knowledge to exploit/hack the app and pure social engineering to ensure profit from other drivers, result? close to 700 a day but wait... there is more, as I got tired of it, I entered the next phase! (owning a business), let me tell ya brother, this is bliss, I started with practically nothing as a I helped a friend hack Amazon for the best jobs out there, eventually I saw he was making too much and I was getting too little, got a loan, bought 2 trucks and now I have 10 trucks while playing Amazon like a fiddle making numbers you won't see with your entire family put together, so no I'm not stuck in 9 to 5... I'm in what you call "the american dream" at this point.

My house has a pool, how big is your pool?

And ugh I'm divorced, once you make the big bucks, women stick to you like glue.


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## BunnyK (Dec 12, 2017)

losiglow said:


> OMG people. I'm not going to pretend that the top 0.01% of uber-rich people don't pull the strings in this country. It's always been the case and will always be. No matter the type of government (socialism would only reduce the amount of people pulling the strings...) BUT - you're still the master of your destiny. If you don't like the gig/job, you can always go out and do something else. Unlike a communist, socialist and despotism, a free market capitalist society allows you the freedom to do what you want. It's not always easy, but you have the ability to choose.


Yeah but then people would have to get skills and work. Many just want to be given easy access to a cushy life.



The Entomologist said:


> Rideshare works for you and I understand that you are happy being IC by name only, if you have nothing left, pick that large block and keep building your pyramid.
> 
> I've come to realize "working" has an evolution, it may come as a stunning discovery to you if you are stuck in gig mode.
> 
> ...


You can also start your own business.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

I'm too lazy to counterpoint everything. Working hard and getting an education has made the current system work out great for me. Maybe if it hadn't, I'd complain more.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> BasicallyI guess gig musician guy should be content working at wal-mart where he gets his mandatory health care insurance.


Come on now! Let's talk about " The Musician " that can't work because of a test called ABC that defines how he hires people.

He had a band, few members. He had contracts with venues and he would bring his band. He had like 3 guys working for him on a regular. He sets the place and time, they show up to work in his band. He was actually an employer. He was just too stupid to not understand.

Almost all legitimate contractors are totally exempt by now.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

The Entomologist said:


> https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/opinions/united-shades-of-america-gig-economy-kamau-bell/index.html
> As more Americans are pushed into it due to lack of work + the pandemic, people start to realize the truth about the companies pulling the strings, ah... great depression labor style growth for America wouldn't be so bad if there were something benefiting the country from these companies, say manufacturing or research, rides and deliveries do nothing but make a few clowns money off the ignorance of the masses.


Same goes for the majority of non gig economy businesses in this country. Most sell cheaply made bullshït, half assed services we never needed until we are told we need them, and technology that does absolutely nothing but make us lazy and stupid.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I don't think anyone's advocating dismantling capitalism or adopting Bolshevism


"_Capitalism *is* a police state. While we'll have to fight to win reforms, we have to dismantle capitalism to win a violence-free society._"

-Seattle Councilwoman Kshama Sawant-

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/30/kshama-sawant-seattle-council-member-blames-capita/


mch said:


> Same goes for the majority of non gig economy businesses in this country. Most sell cheaply made bullshït, half assed services we never needed until we are told we need them, and technology that does absolutely nothing but make us lazy and stupid.


Yep.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> "_Capitalism *is* a police state. While we'll have to fight to win reforms, we have to dismantle capitalism to win a violence-free society._"
> 
> -Seattle Councilwoman Kshama Sawant-
> 
> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/30/kshama-sawant-seattle-council-member-blames-capita/


Lol, capitalism means that the means of production and sources of capital are in private hands, not in the government's. It has nothing to do with policing.

And regarding Kshama Sawant, anyone can blame anything for anything. She blames capitalism for violence. I could blame Sawant for the fact that my local Safeway ran out of yoghurt last week. It doesn't mean that it's true.

Capitalism is not more prone to creating violent societies than other forms of economy. In the US we have not had the violence seen in socialist countries:

- The state-ordered murder of 20 million people in the Soviet Union, under Stalin's regime alone
- Cambodia's government elimination of 2 million of its citizens under the Kymer Rouge
- China's mass murder of millions of citizens during its Cultural Revolutions

To say that capitalism causes violence while ignoring the above is just ignorant. Singapore is one of the most capitalist countries there are, yet it has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. The USA is also a capitalist country, yet it has a high crime rate. The difference cannot be due to capitalism, given that both are capitalist. The difference is entirely down to how tough or lax the country is on crime.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Lol, capitalism means that the means of production and sources of capital are in private hands, not in the government's. It has nothing to do with policing.
> 
> And regarding Kshama Sawant, anyone can blame anything for anything. She blames capitalism for violence. I could blame Sawant for the fact that my local Safeway ran out of yoghurt last week. It doesn't mean that it's true.
> 
> ...


That is, hands down, one of the weirdest strawman responses I've read on here.

AGAIN...



The Gift of Fish said:


> I don't think anyone's advocating dismantling capitalism or adopting Bolshevism


Incorrect.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> That is, hands down, one of the weirdest strawman responses I've read on here.


If that's your response then you didn't understand my post.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

mch said:


> Same goes for the majority of non gig economy businesses in this country. Most sell cheaply made bullshït, half assed services we never needed until we are told we need them, and technology that does absolutely nothing but make us lazy and stupid.


There is a guy that was in the original Facebook team. Starting 5 or so. He is a Billioner now. Part owner of Golden State Worriers.

He does not let his kids use Facebook. He claims since the Great Recession, we have created or produced nothing of real value.

Delivering stuff, driving people around, tweeting and twerking is not creation. It has no real value to humanity or society.

He claims we have done 0 in terms of creation and real enovation.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> There is a guy that was in the original Facebook team. Starting 5 or so. He is a Billioner now. Part owner of Golden State Worriers.
> 
> He does not let his kids use Facebook. He claims since the Great Recession, we have created or produced nothing of real value.
> 
> ...


Interesting video, but not really a revelation. As I have said before, if I had a billion dollars of investor money I could buy a few hundred thousand wide screen TVs and set up an outfit outside Best Buy stores, selling the TVs at half Best Buy's price. My sales would experience exponential growth and my customer base would also expand geometrically. If looked at my sales and market share of TVs, it would be very impressive.

But all I would be doing is purchasing market share and customers with investor money. Once the money runs out, all I have left is a non-viable business. No "market fit", as the guy above calls it.

Uber and Lyft are the equivalent of selling TVs at half price in a parking lot, paid for with someone else's money. They just haven't run out of investor cash yet.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Interesting video, but not really a revelation. As I have said before, if I had a billion dollars of investor money I could buy a few hundred thousand wide screen TVs and set up an outfit outside Best Buy stores, selling the TVs at half Best Buy's price. My sales would experience exponential growth and my customer base would also expand geometrically. If looked at my sales and market share of TVs, it would be very impressive.
> 
> But all I would be doing is purchasing market share and customers with investor money. Once the money runs out, all I have left is a non-viable business. No "market fit", as the guy above calls it.
> 
> Uber and Lyft are the equivalent of selling TVs at half price in a parking lot, paid for with someone else's money. They just haven't run out of investor cash yet.


I love what you would do with a Billion.

Exactly!

It seems this trend has stifled real innovation.

I think the Big Boy Backers are not gonna be able to keep pumping in money.
This is the last run, Uber had 10 Billion cash starting 2020. Now it's 6 B.

Similar to WeWorks scam, the investors got fooled. ( Soft Bank, Saudi wealth fund, etc)


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

The Entomologist said:


> https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/09/opinions/united-shades-of-america-gig-economy-kamau-bell/index.html
> As more Americans are pushed into it due to lack of work + the pandemic, people start to realize the truth about the companies pulling the strings, ah... great depression labor style growth for America wouldn't be so bad if there were something benefiting the country from these companies, say manufacturing or research, rides and deliveries do nothing but make a few clowns money off the ignorance of the masses.


Shareholders and CEOs make money from other people's risk/labor/vehicle depreciation/resources and drivers don't get social security while companies avoid tax burden.

What's not to love?


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> I love what you would do with a Billion.
> 
> Exactly!
> 
> ...


I think the craziest one was Wag, the dog walking app that Softbank pumped $300m into, before selling its investment back to the company at a loss. D'oh!



nosurgenodrive said:


> Shareholders and CEOs make money from other people's risk/labor/vehicle depreciation/resources and drivers don't get social security while companies avoid tax burden.
> 
> What's not to love?


Some of what you mention is just normal capitalism, though. Every company that has workers makes money from them - the company pays the workers at wholesale rates for their work and then sells the work at retail. Example: I know a guy who runs a small painting company. He charges out his painters at $45/hr and pays each painter $25/hr. He buys the labour in low and sells it high. The $20/hr he makes from each painter is his reward for finding customers and administering his business.

Some painters might think this unfair, and if so then they can start their own painting companies and do the same.


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