# I met a guy today who was being shuffled



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

As I was dropping off my pax at an airport hotel this afternoon I got a new ping from close by. When I closed out the ride I realized my new pax, William, was at the same hotel. I looked around and there was a guy with a suitcase looking at my car expectantly, so I rolled down the window. "Are you my Uber?" he asked. "Are you William?" I responded. "No, I'm not."

He told me that he's been waiting and his Uber looks like it's right around the corner but it's not moving. I figured he was being shuffled. Somebody didn't want his $4 ride to the airport.

I felt bad for him. These "shuffles" are real people.

I was going to tell him to cancel and contact Uber to have his $5 refunded but he had already walked off looking for his car.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Coachman said:


> Somebody didn't want his $4 ride to the airport.
> I felt bad for him. These "shuffles" are real people.


No they're not!
They're $4 paxholes! :biggrin:


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Uber's Guber said:


> No they're not!
> They're $4 paxholes! :biggrin:


ITS ALL UBERS FAULT !


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Coachman said:


> As I was dropping off my pax at an airport hotel this afternoon I got a new ping from close by. When I closed out the ride I realized my new pax, William, was at the same hotel. I looked around and there was a guy with a suitcase looking at my car expectantly, so I rolled down the window. "Are you my Uber?" he asked. "Are you William?" I responded. "No, I'm not."
> 
> He told me that he's been waiting and his Uber looks like it's right around the corner but it's not moving. I figured he was being shuffled. Somebody didn't want his $4 ride to the airport.
> 
> ...


You missed a double shuffle tsk tsk... his driver was more than likely on foot too.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> You missed a double shuffle tsk tsk... his driver was more than likely on foot too.


effn' A bro, that's a brilliant idea!
I can simply hang out in the lobby of a busy resort drinkin' the coffee and enjoying the croissants while catching up on a few shuffles each day!


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I felt bad for him. These "shuffles" are real people.


Nice to know there are some real humans on UP as well !


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## Youburr (Aug 22, 2019)

Coachman said:


> As I was dropping off my pax at an airport hotel this afternoon I got a new ping from close by. When I closed out the ride I realized my new pax, William, was at the same hotel. I looked around and there was a guy with a suitcase looking at my car expectantly, so I rolled down the window. "Are you my Uber?" he asked. "Are you William?" I responded. "No, I'm not."
> 
> He told me that he's been waiting and his Uber looks like it's right around the corner but it's not moving. I figured he was being shuffled. Somebody didn't want his $4 ride to the airport.
> 
> ...


Wait what did you do for to the new William ping?


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

This shit is why uber took away cancel fees in dallas for like a year.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Coachman said:


> As I was dropping off my pax at an airport hotel this afternoon I got a new ping from close by. When I closed out the ride I realized my new pax, William, was at the same hotel. I looked around and there was a guy with a suitcase looking at my car expectantly, so I rolled down the window. "Are you my Uber?" he asked. "Are you William?" I responded. "No, I'm not."
> 
> He told me that he's been waiting and his Uber looks like it's right around the corner but it's not moving. I figured he was being shuffled. Somebody didn't want his $4 ride to the airport.
> 
> ...


One of my pax who was shuffled was telling me how he did contact Uber and was refunded his cancellation fee. I don't shuffle, and I don't see the point of it. I also feel bad for those pax.


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## OG ant (Oct 11, 2019)

Coachman said:


> As I was dropping off my pax at an airport hotel this afternoon I got a new ping from close by. When I closed out the ride I realized my new pax, William, was at the same hotel. I looked around and there was a guy with a suitcase looking at my car expectantly, so I rolled down the window. "Are you my Uber?" he asked. "Are you William?" I responded. "No, I'm not."
> 
> He told me that he's been waiting and his Uber looks like it's right around the corner but it's not moving. I figured he was being shuffled. Somebody didn't want his $4 ride to the airport.
> 
> ...


Dont be a captain save a hoe, never undermine what other ants due!


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## Trek Shuffler (Feb 13, 2019)

Love the double shuffle especially on Lyft. $10 in 10 minutes and 0 miles.


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

You sure it was a shuffle? Most driver's don't value their time. More likely pax to miss-pin, or new driver.

The driver practically has to be within 200 feet sometimes or no-show is denied.

In many markets, that is a high chance of a rematch when dropping off. It is a free pass of the lizzard lot. Savvy drivers would've taken this ride.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

doyousensehumor said:


> In many markets, that is a high chance of a rematch when dropping off. It is a free pass of the lizzard lot. Savvy drivers would've taken this ride.


This is great advice. I found this trick out when I missed a rematch once: go to a ride-generating hotel less than 10 minutes from the big international airport and then re-roll on the rematch by getting a ride back to the airport. No waiting behind 80 drivers and I got paid for most of the downtime. I think a lot of drivers haven't figured this one out.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

waldowainthrop said:


> This is great advice. I found this trick out when I missed a rematch once: go to a ride-generating hotel less than 10 minutes from the big international airport and then re-roll on the rematch by getting a ride back to the airport. No waiting behind 80 drivers and I got paid for most of the downtime. I think a lot of drivers haven't figured this one out.


I'm sure now they'll figure it out since you posted this.



doyousensehumor said:


> More likely pax to miss-pin, or new driver.
> 
> The driver practically has to be within 200 feet sometimes or no-show is denied.


Great point.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Invisible said:


> I'm sure now they'll figure it out since you posted this.


I know, I thought about that but I am out of the rideshare game. If anyone thinks it shouldn't be here because it's too valuable, I'll take it down. Otherwise, my Christmas gift to UP.


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## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

Yup
Shufflers are a-holes.

No doubt about it.


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Chorch said:


> Yup
> Shufflers are a-holes.
> No doubt about it.


Next, drivers will just ride their bicycles around town, online while accepting passenger requests.


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

Soon enough, Lyft and Uber will take away cancellation fees completely. Either that, or make the no show fee a measly $1.

I had a lady pax last night who had drivers call a no show on her 3 times. She was furious, she got in my car angry as hell. She said without even saying hello "is this a little game you drivers come up with?? Yall hit arrive and then hide? I just had $15 stolen from me."

I told her we can call customer support together. I gave her the phone number, Rohit's girlfriend answered and 15 minutes later she got refunded $15. The pax ended up giving me a $10 tip on top of a $15 ride.

Point of the story, you shufflers are shitholes.

-Jerry


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> I had a lady pax last night who had drivers call a no show on her 3 times. She was furious, she got in my car angry as hell. She said without even saying hello "*is this a little game you drivers come up with*?? Yall hit arrive and then hide? I just had $15 stolen from me."


Smarter than average rideshare user.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

Coachman said:


> As I was dropping off my pax at an airport hotel this afternoon I got a new ping from close by. When I closed out the ride I realized my new pax, William, was at the same hotel. I looked around and there was a guy with a suitcase looking at my car expectantly, so I rolled down the window. "Are you my Uber?" he asked. "Are you William?" I responded. "No, I'm not."
> 
> He told me that he's been waiting and his Uber looks like it's right around the corner but it's not moving. I figured he was being shuffled. Somebody didn't want his $4 ride to the airport.
> 
> ...


So here are a few examples of the exact reason TOO shuffle!

Just an FYI to you. Uber's rider app tell pax to be ready when ordering.










You telling me to be nice to drunk pax that can't walk out of a damn bar without falling?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Invisible said:


> One of my pax who was shuffled was telling me how he did contact Uber and was refunded his cancellation fee.


That's exactly what happened with my Significant Other last week. Got shuffled in downtown Houston, followed by an immediate complaint to Uber, who refunded the cancel fee even before the next driver arrived.

The conversation at home went like this:

"Yeah, there are drivers on the UP forum who actually brag about doing that."

"Seriously??"


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> That's exactly what happened with my Significant Other last week. Got shuffled in downtown Houston, followed by an immediate complaint to Uber, who refunded the cancel fee even before the next driver arrived.
> 
> The conversation at home went like this:
> 
> ...


I don't see the point in shuffling, and I also don't always wait the 5 min for the cancellation fee. I wonder how many pax ended up being refunded for shuffles.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Invisible said:


> I don't see the point in shuffling, and I also don't always wait the 5 min for the cancellation fee. I wonder how many pax ended up being refunded for shuffles.


I don't see the point in it either. Besides it being dishonest, I'd rather drive. I think driving pays better.

You know that the driver who gets reported doesn't make anything for that wasted time. Uber sure isn't going to eat that fee that got refunded to the rider.

I don't know how many are required to get deactivated. It's probably in the algorithm somewhere.


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## Working4peanuts (Jan 16, 2018)

Invisible said:


> I don't see the point in shuffling, and I also don't always wait the 5 min for the cancellation fee. I wonder how many pax ended up being refunded for shuffles.


I shuffle all the time and am damned proud of it. Pax usually have at least 10 minutes after they order to be toes to the curb. If they are so inconsiderate that they can't be ready, let them pay $5 and enjoy it!

However, I shuffled a pax yesterday after she put the wrong pickup address in the app and I couldn't make a u turn to get her. But I told Uber not to charge her.

I'm an asshole (it is a prerequisite of the job), but not a COMPLETE asshole).

Pax who downrate you for no reason however are COMPLETE ASSHOLES.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Working4peanuts said:


> I shuffle all the time and am damned proud of it. Pax usually have at least 10 minutes after they order to be toes to the curb. If they are so inconsiderate that they can't be ready, let them pay $5 and enjoy it!


This sounds like getting the cancellation fee, not hiding from the pax down the street, which is what a shuffle is.


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## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Uber could stop shuffling by paying drivers more reasonable rates. Still doesn't excuse the drivers who hide around the corner or walk around the pax in plain sight in order to rip them off. 

People who drop the pin in the wrong spot and call the driver with an attitude deserve the shuffle. 
People who are not out on time deserve the driver to cancel the moment they can claim the cancellation fee. Not ready? Don't request the car until you are. Drivers don't get paid enough to wait on you to finish eating or putting on make up.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Working4peanuts said:


> However, I shuffled a pax yesterday after she put the wrong pickup address in the app and I couldn't make a u turn to get her. But I told Uber not to charge her.


I agree with Invisible.

A true shuffle is a scam to collect a no-show payment. The scamming driver always (!) leaves right around 5 minutes.

Youve probably seen the same posts I have on here, where drivers brag (!!) about driving away while the rider is running towards them.

I mean, if a person doesn't want to drive for people, why wouldn't they get a minimum wage job at Wally World or something. But I guess that would require actually talking to people, which so many of them are phobic about.


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## Working4peanuts (Jan 16, 2018)

Invisible said:


> This sounds like getting the cancellation fee, not hiding from the pax down the street, which is what a shuffle is.


Ok. Thought they were one and the same. No, I don't hide except on rare occasion. That's beyond the pale. But I will shuffle if the paxhole tries to call me after waiting 4.5 minutes. That's just inexcusable on their part.

If Uber would simply charge them $1 a minute, 100% of these morons would be toes to the curb the second they order a ride.


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## BuberDriver (Feb 2, 2016)

to defend the other driver, since most of you think he is low life scum, the pax may have put the pin in the wrong location. on top of that uber's gps is terrible and may have directed him to another area of the hotel parking lot. those are easy shuffles. guy might even remain in queue once he cancels


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Invisible said:


> This sounds like getting the cancellation fee, not hiding from the pax down the street, which is what a shuffle is.


Exactly, what the above posters were correctly denouncing was hiding from pax. But if someone waits in good faith, outside the address the pax entered for 5 minutes, I don't think anyone here disagrees with getting a cancellation fee.


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## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

Uber's Guber said:


> No they're not!
> They're $4 paxholes! :biggrin:


You know as much as EVERYONE here messes around, ESPECIALLY ME, I take these trips. Out of pity. I get the same people in vallejo ALL THE TIME. I DO explain. To them. *(the most common stops around town are to the ferry building or the bus which are BOTH usually a mile away from the town center...)

So I DO explain to them why they have to wait so long sometimes. I even explain shiffle and that some do it but i dont and i explain it's because no body tips. You know what, even if its ONE DOLLAR, my tips seem to go up after i explain. They also know they will probably get me again, as a morning driver. The whole thing is pretty interesting.



reg barclay said:


> Exactly, what the above posters were correctly denouncing was hiding from pax. But if someone waits in good faith, outside the address the pax entered for 5 minutes, I don't think anyone here disagrees with getting a cancellation fee.


Lol I'll disagree with anything if it makes me look more foxy.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Working4peanuts said:


> But I will shuffle if the paxhole tries to call me after waiting 4.5 minutes. That's just inexcusable on their part.


I take those calls. I'll even cut them a little slack sometimes.

Do they deserve it? Not necessarily.

But people have cut me some slack at times. God knows, there have been times when I didnt deserve it.

Karma can be a very nasty b*tch at times. However, I prefer to view it from the opposite direction.

One of the most important books ive read in my life is titled "How to Attract Good Luck," by A. H. Z. Carr. It's old, and ive loaned out my copy a couple of times, but always got it back.

I think you'd enjoy it. It changed my life.


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## UbaBrah (Oct 25, 2019)

I only cancel if I've legit waited for several minutes with no response to my text, or if pax sounds risky/too drunk on the phone while wondering where I am. I don't want to start a trip on the wrong foot if at all possible, and a shitty phone call early on will always confirm that we're going to. I don't do the deliberate shuffle. I do have a conscience.


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## Blatherskite (Nov 30, 2016)

Shuffle + refund = draining VC treasure: a.k.a: revenge of the genuine angels.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I have never hidden from a pax to collect a cancel fee. I think it is just wrong. I have morals.

I have often waited out the timer and collected a cancel fee. I always try to contact the Pax at 3 minutes and 30 seconds to confirm where they are. If they ask me to wait over the 5 minutes I explain to them that after 5 minutes U/L can cancel the call and send me another ride request. Based on their attitude I decide if I want to wait longer or not.

I'm in a slow market where pings can be few and far in between so I will tend to wait it out. However at the 5 minute mark I will turn the other app back on. Only once did I get another ping on the other app where I cancelled on the first ping and drove off after they were approaching my car. It had been over 7 minutes already so I really did not feel too bad for them.


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## Denver Dick (Nov 2, 2019)

the only time I ever shuffle is if I spot the passx....and they look drunk, homeless or dirty....then I do hide


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Cold Fusion said:


> Next, drivers will just ride their bicycles around town, online while accepting passenger requests.


How passengers can identify their Uber driver
shuffling from a bicycle


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Christinebitg said:


> I agree with Invisible.
> 
> A true shuffle is a scam to collect a no-show payment. The scamming driver always (!) leaves right around 5 minutes.
> 
> ...


Nope. I disagree with this. I leave at exactly 5 minutes and collect my $5.65 (L) / $4.40 (U) education fee.
Passenger chooses to hail ride.
Passenger sets pin.
Passenger gets updates that I am 2 minutes away.
Passenger gets updates that I have arrived.
Passenger can call or text.
Passenger knows my model of car, and license plate.
I wait patiently with my 4-way blinkers exactly (safety permitting) on top of pin.

If they cannot meet their 50% of the bargain: Place pin in sensible place and, be ready to go within 5 minutes after I have arrived at said pin, or walk to whatever safe place I have parked. (See: THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT) then they get educated $5 to be a better passenger going forward.

I will agree with @Christinebitg on the part that the term "SHUFFLE" is used in a very non standard way around here. Some people are 'intentional, hiding' and use the phrase shuffle, others are openly visible, with no mal-intent, and use the phrase SHUFFLE as they value their time and move on to the next ride.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

reg barclay said:


> Exactly, what the above posters were correctly denouncing was hiding from pax. But if someone waits in good faith, outside the address the pax entered for 5 minutes, I don't think anyone here disagrees with getting a cancellation fee.


Nope, canceling and collecting the fee after the timer expires when the pax doesn't show is one thing. Acceptable and within the rules.

Its the hiding from people so they can steal $5 that I think is beyond lame.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

WindyCityAnt said:


> So here are a few examples of the exact reason TOO shuffle!
> 
> Just an FYI to you. Uber's rider app tell pax to be ready when ordering.
> 
> ...


OP said the person was leaving a Hotel in the afternoon ..slightly different than the scenerio you outline..wouldn't you agree ?


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

mch said:


> Nope, canceling and collecting the fee after the timer expires when the pax doesn't show is one thing. Acceptable and within the rules.
> 
> Its the hiding from people so they can steal $5 that I think is beyond lame.


Unless I'm mistaken, we appear to be saying the same thing.


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## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

reg barclay said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, we appear to be saying the same thing.


Yea definitley, I'm agreeing with you. When I started with "Nope" I meant that collecting when the time expires isn't the same as hiding from someone.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

dauction said:


> OP said the person was leaving a Hotel in the afternoon ..slightly different than the scenerio you outline..wouldn't you agree ?


 Absolutely NOT. I get cancelled on if I am 2 mins away sometimes. Pax here now better, there is Uber's all around them and watch it. So in other words this means I got shuffled also.

It's a BIG game here. 1 min pick up times when busy.


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## NoWhrMn (Feb 21, 2019)

The only time I shuffle (going around the corner out of sight) is when it's a no car seat or underage pax. I don't want any retaliation while I wait to canx the ride.


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## Mentalist (Mar 26, 2018)

This is completely wrong and results in yet more choking regulations and restrictions on all drivers, so good drivers also suffer. You will now see quick deactivation in full swing for "too many" such incidents and violations and may inadvertently affect honest drivers. Do your part first before you vilify the other and blame them doing injustice to you


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Coachman said:


> As I was dropping off my pax at an airport hotel this afternoon I got a new ping from close by. When I closed out the ride I realized my new pax, William, was at the same hotel. I looked around and there was a guy with a suitcase looking at my car expectantly, so I rolled down the window. "Are you my Uber?" he asked. "Are you William?" I responded. "No, I'm not."
> 
> He told me that he's been waiting and his Uber looks like it's right around the corner but it's not moving. I figured he was being shuffled. Somebody didn't want his $4 ride to the airport.
> 
> ...


As with most things rideshare, this is Uber's fault. They should, as they now do in CA, divulge the pax' destination on the long screen. Then if no drivers want the ride, the pax can make alternate arrangements (taxi, bus etc) instead of waiting around pointlessly.


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

Coachman said:


> As I was dropping off my pax at an airport hotel this afternoon I got a new ping from close by. When I closed out the ride I realized my new pax, William, was at the same hotel. I looked around and there was a guy with a suitcase looking at my car expectantly, so I rolled down the window. "Are you my Uber?" he asked. "Are you William?" I responded. "No, I'm not."
> 
> He told me that he's been waiting and his Uber looks like it's right around the corner but it's not moving. I figured he was being shuffled. Somebody didn't want his $4 ride to the airport.
> 
> ...


Most hotels have airport shuttles. Why waste an Uber/Lyft Drivers time with short trips like that?


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

NoWhrMn said:


> The only time I shuffle (going around the corner out of sight) is when it's a no car seat or underage pax. I don't want any retaliation while I wait to canx the ride.


I don't shuffle these people I just tell them I need to cancel and why. I drive around the corner and send a message to U/L support. It is a preset message that I only need to type 4 letters to get to fill in. "canm" for minor, "canc" for car seat, "can2" for too many riders, or "cang" for gated community. Text message goes to support and they simply pay me the cancel fee as a bonus. I don't care how I get the money as long as I get it when I deserve it. Every once in a while I will get a canned response that it does not qualify, I take a minute and respond back. Every time I get the money.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> As with most things rideshare, this is Uber's fault. They should, as they now do in CA, divulge the pax' destination on the long screen. Then if no drivers want the ride, the pax can make alternate arrangements (taxi, bus etc) instead of waiting around pointlessly.


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## Don'tchasethesurge (Dec 27, 2016)

Probrably 4.24 rated pax getting shuttle. Maybe he should tipped for better rating.


Or maybe it’s one those pax who text and demmands rides to hurry up... who knows... there may be reasons


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

Don'tchasethesurge said:


> Or maybe it's one those pax who text and demmands rides to hurry up... who knows... there may be reasons


That an auto cancel if they do. I won't put up with any BS pre pick up with pax.


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## Don'tchasethesurge (Dec 27, 2016)

WindyCityAnt said:


> That an auto cancel if they do. I won't put up with any BS pre pick up with pax.


Yes... but there may be more to this story.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

Don'tchasethesurge said:


> Yes... but there may be more to this story.


#Care

Has nothing to do with pax trying to dictate or manipulate me in any way pre pick up. No anchors, no "meet me here" so I avoid the surge charge from you, no waiting for them either, the app won't give you the timer. Cancel. App off until I want a pax to pick up.

It's all about your personal income. NOT Uber's!


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Don'tchasethesurge said:


> Or maybe it's one those pax who text and demmands rides to hurry up... who knows... there may be reasons


This will always lead to an automatic cancel with me. Do NOT call me or text me and tell me to hurry up, particularly if you start it with "You need to...". The app tells you what time to expect me. If that is not soon enough, drive yourself. It's not my job to make up for your poor time planning skills.

I am usually a very nice, mild mannered guy who is not out to screw pax. I usually take pride in giving them the benefit of the doubt and doing what I can to get them there safely.

But any demand to hurry up gets under my skin and it is the one time I am an [email protected]@ and actually relish a pax being stranded.


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## Stefan Dj. (Feb 13, 2016)

Keep doing it until uber removes cancellation fees


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## gooddolphins (Apr 5, 2018)

Shoot I waited 20 minutes one time for this guy. It gave me more time to post on UP.net. I about fell asleep in his driveway.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

doyousensehumor said:


> The driver practically has to be within 200 feet sometimes or no-show is denied.


If the driver forces the pax to cancel he still gets his $5. He could be half a mile away.



Youburr said:


> Wait what did you do for to the new William ping?


William showed up about 2 minutes later. Airport ride. I don't remember if I got an airport pickup.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Uber's Guber said:


> No they're not!
> They're $4 paxholes! :biggrin:


Pax do not have names


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## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

Chorch said:


> Yup
> Shufflers are a-holes.
> 
> No doubt about it.


I had 2 Uber drivers tried the shuffle game, As a ex driver I knew exactly what they was trying to do but it didn't work, If enough riders complain I'm sure Uber will make changes to there algorithm.



DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Soon enough, Lyft and Uber will take away cancellation fees completely. Either that, or make the no show fee a measly $1.
> 
> I had a lady pax last night who had drivers call a no show on her 3 times. She was furious, she got in my car angry as hell. She said without even saying hello "is this a little game you drivers come up with?? Yall hit arrive and then hide? I just had $15 stolen from me."
> 
> ...


Yup, There's some riders that use the services regularly and know the things some of these drivers try to do, The first thing to do is contact Uber and let them know what happened and they will refund the riders.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Soon enough, Lyft and Uber will take away cancellation fees completely. Either that, or make the no show fee a measly $1.


I suspect Uber and Lyft are flagging accounts of drivers who have X-percentage of "no show rides" in a month. Everybody has no-shows once in awhile. I had two in one night a few months back. But, drivers who are claiming no-show fees every day are incredibly lousy at their job, which is picking up passengers.

Uber and Lyft can spot that systematic abuse a mile away. They have tons upon tons of data, fed into large computers that can make all kinds of assessments about their drivers. These idiots who think Uber and Lyft have no clue about what they're doing will suddenly find out how wrong they are.

Some of them will come in here crying one day about how their account has been suddenly deactivated for no reason.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)




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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

rkozy said:


> Uber and Lyft are flagging accounts of drivers who have X-percentage of "no show rides"


I must be at the top of their flag pole then. :smiles: 


rkozy said:


> drivers who are claiming no-show fees every day are incredibly lousy at their job, which is picking up passengers.


Job????.....-o:
Did you just call this rideshare shit a _"job"_..?!?


rkozy said:


> Some of them will come in here crying one day about how their account has been suddenly deactivated for no reason.


Permanent deactivation is inevitable.....
But when it happens, I won't be crying. &#128513;


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

rkozy said:


> I suspect Uber and Lyft are flagging accounts of drivers who have X-percentage of "no show rides" in a month. Everybody has no-shows once in awhile. I had two in one night a few months back. But, drivers who are claiming no-show fees every day are incredibly lousy at their job, which is picking up passengers.
> 
> Uber and Lyft can spot that systematic abuse a mile away. They have tons upon tons of data, fed into large computers that can make all kinds of assessments about their drivers. These idiots who think Uber and Lyft have no clue about what they're doing will suddenly find out how wrong they are.
> 
> Some of them will come in here crying one day about how their account has been suddenly deactivated for no reason.


I have made Uber tens of thousands of dollars over the past eight months. Doubt they will deactivate me for occasional shuffles.

I'm not malicious in my shuffles. The formula is this: Pickup time + wait time < trip duration.

Its simple math. If I am spending more than 50% of my time driving to passengers and waiting, I am losing too much money. If the algorithm is feeding me shit trips, the only way to keep it profitable is to cut down wait and driving time.

If pickup is 7 minutes and trip is 7 minutes. They get at most a minute of wait time.

If actual pickup takes 10 minutes (algo lied) and trip is seven minutes. They need to be toes to curb to get a trip.

The in app wait timer does not scale to the value of the trip. What kind of idiot passenger expects me to wait around five minutes for a $3 trip?!?

Fares have been lowered to the point that it is (rightly) impacting the quality of the service. A large portion of trips pay less than minimum wage. Only kooky retirees will do it for this. Shuffling is the only thing drivers can do to push back.

If uber wants to fix the problem, they can A) shoot themselves in the foot by deactivating drivers and shrinking the driver pool or B) Raise minimum fare so that its not advantageous to shuffle (but loose many customers because trips will cost more).. or C) decrease shuffle fee (and thus ensure that many drivers rage quit)

They know that shuffling is the only firewall against insanity. They can't touch the practice of shuffling without turning the whole service into a shit show. (Driver starts trip... oh shit its a $3 trip that takes 20 minutes.. cancel.. gtfo my car. etc etc.)


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> I think driving pays better.


Houston is the fourth largest city by population in the U.S. of A., so I know that the traffic is at least as bad there as it is in the Capital of Your Nation. Here is the arithmetic:

You receive and cover the ping: two minutes.
The customer comes out: Three minutes.
Customer verifies, boards, you verify: one minute.
You run the trip: eight minutes (YES-in this crummy traffic a minimum can take you up to FIFTEEN minutes to run).

Total time invested: fourteen minutes. Total payoff: four dollars.

You receive and cover the ping: two minutes.
You wait five minutes; no customer, cancel "Rider did not show up".

Total time invested: seven minutes. Total payoff: four dollars.

For half the time invested, you get the same payoff. Thus, it is more profitable NOT to haul a passenger than it is to haul one. I am in business for profits. People, public service and all of those lofty, noble notions are strictly secondary. It is about money.






The TNCs, the customers are dishonest. Meanwhile, everyone expects that the drivers will be honest. DO NOT expect me to play straight while everyone else is playing dirty. I am no one's sap.

When the TNCs start to play clean; when the TNCs start to treat me properly; when the customers stop lying about me; I will play it straight. Until that day comes:








Christinebitg said:


> You know that the driver who gets reported doesn't make anything for that wasted time. Uber sure isn't going to eat that fee that got refunded to the rider.


Actually, the driver DOES get paid and the TNC DOES eat the five dollars. How do I know this? I am an inveterate shuffler.

Those of you who want to be Uber Boy Scouts and Lyft Camp Fire Girls, that is your business. Shuffling is mine.

They can douse the cancellation fees and the drivers will adapt. They will decline pings or cancel them. More people will be without rides.

There is something inherently wrong with a transportation system where it is more profitable not to carry a passenger than it is to carry one; Lyft's and Uber's protestations that they are "technology not transportation companies" notwithstanding.


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## Soldiering (Jan 21, 2019)

DoYouEvenLyft? said:


> Soon enough, Lyft and Uber will take away cancellation fees completely. Either that, or make the no show fee a measly $1.
> 
> I had a lady pax last night who had drivers call a no show on her 3 times. She was furious, she got in my car angry as hell. She said without even saying hello "is this a little game you drivers come up with?? Yall hit arrive and then hide? I just had $15 stolen from me."
> 
> ...


I've shuffled a handful of times in 10k rides. I don't shuffle purposely only when the pax has ZERO REGARD for my time an effort in trying to GIVE THEM A RIDE quickly. Time is the currency in our rideshare biz.

Sometimes it's a necessary evil.



Invisible said:


> I don't see the point in shuffling, and I also don't always wait the 5 min for the cancellation fee. I wonder how many pax ended up being refunded for shuffles.


Why would you not wait the 5 min for the fee?

Your vested in the endeavor already by the time driving there an setting in place to get set for your departure. Aren't you in this too make money?


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Coachman said:


> I felt bad for him. These "shuffles" are real people.


Sure, they are real people. But its really not the fault of the driver, who just made the decision that the money he could make doing the trip wasn't worth the effort. The other parties to the transaction- the pax as well as Uber- could have figured that some drivers wouldn't go for it.


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## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> Pax do not have names


"The F do you care new fish? Didn't matter what his name was..."

















The standard is: a shuffle isn't bad if the average reasonable routine shuffler could not find wrongful intent in the original driver's action.

Think of all the fossil fuels being saved by NOT driving the paxhol€.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Coachman said:


> As I was dropping off my pax at an airport hotel this afternoon I got a new ping from close by. When I closed out the ride I realized my new pax, William, was at the same hotel. I looked around and there was a guy with a suitcase looking at my car expectantly, so I rolled down the window. "Are you my Uber?" he asked. "Are you William?" I responded. "No, I'm not."
> 
> He told me that he's been waiting and his Uber looks like it's right around the corner but it's not moving. I figured he was being shuffled. Somebody didn't want his $4 ride to the airport.
> 
> ...


If it was a $4 ride, couldn't he have walked?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

i woulda picked him up and tracked down his driver just for the fun of it


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## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Sure, they are real people. But its really not the fault of the driver, who just made the decision that the money he could make doing the trip wasn't worth the effort. The other parties to the transaction- the pax as well as Uber- could have figured that some drivers wouldn't go for it.


I strongly disagree.
When you sign up to do rideshare, you are taking all the things: good and bad.

Drivers think they are sooo smart when shuffling. But little by little they become the scum of society, by being the _entitled_ driver that no one -not even their family- likes.
And they are the same ones complaining about entitled riders &#129318;&#127996;‍♂

Good luck.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Chorch said:


> And they are the same ones complaining about entitled riders &#129318;&#127996;‍♂


I'm glad somebody else will point this out. It has become a joke listening to entitled drivers getting mad about not getting their entitled tips and entitled trip distance and entitled respect from a passenger who has the gall to sit in the front seat.

But, it's the passenger who is entitled in all of this.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Soldiering said:


> Why would you not wait the 5 min for the fee?
> 
> Your vested in the endeavor already by the time driving there an setting in place to get set for your departure. Aren't you in this too make money?


If it's a short trip and a busy time, I'm not waiting. I'd rather drive the pax who are considerate and ready to go, as most are. Plus I have a chance for a tip on the next ride.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Uber's Guber said:


> I must be at the top of their flag pole then. :smiles:
> 
> Job????.....-o:
> Did you just call this rideshare shit a _"job"_..?!?
> ...


So, you just admit you are a lazy a*hole who is out to scam passengers at every available opportunity.

Why does that not surprise me....even a little bit.


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## Valar Dohaeris (May 25, 2019)

Invisible said:


> If it's a short trip and a busy time, I'm not waiting. I'd rather drive the pax who are considerate and ready to go, as most are. *Plus I have a chance for a tip on the next ride*.


You actually bring up a good point. I wonder if any other drivers have gotten tips _because_ they waited a little extra for someone. I know I've been ready to pull the plug once or twice, but waited it out and gotten a very thankful (if not a bit scattered and/or frantic pax) who was having trouble finding his or her keys, stuck on the elevator in the apartment building/dorm, etc.

Just last weekend I got $3 on a two mile ride from a guy who made me wait longer than I would have liked. Maybe he always tips or maybe he appreciated the fact that I didn't peel out and evil laugh as he was coming out the door...


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Valar Dohaeris said:


> I wonder if any other drivers have gotten tips _because_ they waited a little extra for someone. I know I've been ready to pull the plug once or twice, but waited it out and gotten a very thankful (if not a bit scattered and/or frantic pax) who was having trouble finding his or her keys, stuck on the elevator in the apartment building/dorm, etc.


I have; in the cab and on UberX/Lyft.............................The rub is this: you get burned far more often than you get real "thank-you". Some times, you will get a "thank you" that lacks substance. Add the burnings and the words only "thank yous" and the precentage of "real thank yous" is even smaller. Humans are empirical creatures.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Valar Dohaeris said:


> You actually bring up a good point. I wonder if any other drivers have gotten tips _because_ they waited a little extra for someone. I know I've been ready to pull the plug once or twice, but waited it out and gotten a very thankful (if not a bit scattered and/or frantic pax) who was having trouble finding his or her keys, stuck on the elevator in the apartment building/dorm, etc.
> 
> Just last weekend I got $3 on a two mile ride from a guy who made me wait longer than I would have liked. Maybe he always tips or maybe he appreciated the fact that I didn't peel out and evil laugh as he was coming out the door...


My short trips are much shorter than 2 miles. Those I rarely get tipped on during the day. But my weekend evenings, I'll get tips on short trips because people are happy to go out drinking and/or it's out of town pax. Those times I'll wait.

My most frequent tippers are the ones who are ready or come out within a minute. I always thank the ones who are ready.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Chorch said:


> I strongly disagree.
> When you sign up to do rideshare, you are taking all the things: good and bad.
> 
> Drivers think they are sooo smart when shuffling. But little by little they become the scum of society, by being the _entitled_ driver that no one -not even their family- likes.
> ...


"scum of society" is a bit of an overreach, I'd say.

The oncall, portal-to-portal transit business has always been a cutthroat racket where the Marquis of Queensbury rules have never applied even before Uber was conceived of. The patrons are interested in getting over, ditto with the drivers and the company. Fake calls, jumping the post, stealing trips, paying off dispatchers, its all part of it.

No, its not always fair, but if people think they are getting an especially sweet deal they can certainly expect it to go away sooner rather than later.

The old Taxi Cab Racket had a lot of lowdown sleazy tactics committed as drivers sought an "edge" against other hacks, as well as limo drivers, jitneys, whomever. And the taxi wars were conducted in brightly painted vehicles and everyone knew who you were. The ride share business is done anonymously, in a fleet of white Priuses, blue Altimas and silver Sonatas that look just like vehicles of non-belligerents on the road. People can get away with a lot more on the QT.

Actually I would expect the amount of sleazy tactics to rise exponentially with Uber.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> For half the time invested, you get the same payoff.


Until one day, you'll be here saying "I got deactivated for no reason!"

You might be whining about it or you might be bragging. Doesn't matter, the result is still the same.

Hasn't happened yet? Good for you. Until the algorithm changes.

"Oh, it's Uber's fault! They don't pay enough for a minimum trip!"

Yeah right. Enjoy your own little dishonest version of hell.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Chorch said:


> I strongly disagree.
> When you sign up to do rideshare, you are taking all the things: good and bad.
> 
> Drivers think they are sooo smart when shuffling. But little by little they become the scum of society, by being the _entitled_ driver that no one -not even their family- likes.
> ...


I'll Try to extrapolate

It's ok to lose money
.. the community needs you


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OldBay said:


> I have made Uber tens of thousands of dollars over the past eight months. Doubt they will deactivate me for occasional shuffles.
> 
> I'm not malicious in my shuffles. The formula is this: Pickup time + wait time < trip duration.
> 
> ...


If you make the calculation that a trip isn't worth your time... then cancel it and move on. You have no business waiting out the timer to steal $5 from the pax.

You wouldn't accept that kind of treatment from any other service you paid for. Can you imagine paying for a car wash then when you get to the wash they run you through without actually giving you the wash? Why should they give it to you when it's much more cost effective just to take your money and send you on your way? You'd call the better business bureau. Or the cops. Or both.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Coachman said:


> If you make the calculation that a trip isn't worth your time... then cancel it and move on. You have no business waiting out the timer to steal $5 from the pax.
> 
> You wouldn't accept that kind of treatment from any other service you paid for. Can you imagine paying for a car wash then when you get to the wash they run you through without actually giving you the wash? Why should they give it to you when it's much more cost effective just to take your money and send you on your way? You'd call the better business bureau. Or the cops. Or both.


Can you imagine driving to the pick up location for nothing...I can't


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Coachman said:


> If you make the calculation that a trip isn't worth your time... then cancel it and move on. You have no business waiting out the timer to steal $5 from the pax.
> 
> You wouldn't accept that kind of treatment from any other service you paid for. Can you imagine paying for a car wash then when you get to the wash they run you through without actually giving you the wash? Why should they give it to you when it's much more cost effective just to take your money and send you on your way? You'd call the better business bureau. Or the cops. Or both.


BS.

If I invest 10+ minutes in a pickup for a charity trip, and the pax is not toes to curb, he may get shuffled. If the trip parameters are really bad I won't take the trip. The problem is the grey area trips; THIS trip is only worthwhile if pax is toes to curb AND the nav did not lie about pickup time.

The problem is that Uber is not adequately compensating drivers for trips that are sub min wage. Shuffling is the only way for drivers to push back, it is the inevitable consequence of paying drivers too little.


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## Buck-a-mile (Nov 2, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> I know, I thought about that but I am out of the rideshare game. If anyone thinks it shouldn't be here because it's too valuable, I'll take it down. Otherwise, my Christmas gift to UP.


Same here, after years of 12 hour nights, I only drive a few days a month, all days.

All my night tips I share.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> Can you imagine driving to the pick up location for nothing...I can't


I you choose to drive to a pickup where a pax is waiting for you and then not do the ride... that's on you. You've got no business stealing the rider's money.

If you drive four minutes to a pickup only to discover it's a Walmart and you don't want to do the ride you haven't earned squat. You're certainly not entitled to his five bucks.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

Regardless of weather you do this or not. Why would come here and tell everyone? There is no upside to it. Pretty dumb...you think rs doesent monitor these pages...all to say you got over...NOT SMART


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> you'll be here saying "I got deactivated for no reason!"


Uber and Lyft both tell you in its Terms of Service that neither needs a reason to de-activate you.

You might be whining about it or you might be bragging. Doesn't matter, the result is still the same.



Christinebitg said:


> Until the algorithm changes.


What would an algorithm change have to do with the price of salami in Southern Bulgaria?



Christinebitg said:


> "Oh, it's Uber's fault! They don't pay enough for a*ny* minimum trip!"


FIFY



Christinebitg said:


> your own little dishonest version of hell.


_It ain't me what ain't in no "HAY-ull"_. If anyone here is in any hell, it is the Uber Boy Scouts and Lyft Camp Fire Girls in their own Goody-Two-Shoes version of financial hell


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

rkozy said:


> I'm glad somebody else will point this out. It has become a joke listening to entitled drivers getting mad about not getting their entitled tips and entitled trip distance and entitled respect from a passenger who has the gall to sit in the front seat.


Wait. Aren't you the entitled driver that got all upset over not receiving your free Subway snacks because the cashier didn't know how to ring it up?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> What would an algorithm change have to do with the price of salami in Southern Bulgaria?


Because there are some people who think that because they haven't gotten deactivated yet, that it's not ever going to happen.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> Because there are some people who think that because they haven't gotten deactivated yet, that it's not ever going to happen.


People get deactivated for many reasons, or fake reasons. I'm don't think that kissing up to Uber and accepting every money losing trip they send you is effective at changing that. Remember, with Uber, its a computer program, an algorithm, that makes personnel decisions, not flesh and blood people..

I've heard of people getting deactivated for being drunk on the job, even though they never had even a sip and they weren't even cited for it by the local constabularies.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Christinebitg said:


> Because there are some people who think that because they haven't gotten deactivated yet, that it's not ever going to happen.


Those of us who know _anything_ about F*ub*a*r* and Gr*yft* already know we just _ain't been de-activated Y-E-T_, regardless of shuffling or lack thereof.

An "algorithm" change will have little to do with it. Someone's noticing a trend and figuring out what to do with it will.

Keep in mind, as well, that the smarter shuffler will understand that the downfall of anyone of his ilk is greed. If I go out there on a bicycle every day for a week and do fifty shuffles on each of said days (easily done in downtown Washington or around the monuments and museums), some one is _bound_ to notice and start asking questions. If you do two or three, possibly five per day, you stand far less a chance of anyone's noticing, if, for no other reason than the RIF damaged staffs at the TNCs simply have no time to chase down your shuffling [donkey] over a few four dollar payouts.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> Can you imagine driving to the pick up location for nothing...I can't


But it's not for nothing. The rider is there waiting and ready to go. It's YOUR choice not to take the ride. Nobody screwed you in the deal. Once you choose not to take the ride you're not entitled to anything.


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## Buck-a-mile (Nov 2, 2019)

Im always amazed at these stories. In San Diego ride are constant. No time for ripping off pax. It's just not as profitable as honest driving..

Some of these crooks work harder for a $4 cxl fee than I do for a $27 airport run.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Once you choose not to take the ride you're not entitled to anything.


That depends. If you do what you need to do to earn a cancel fee, then, its dam straight, you're entitled to the money.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I_Like_Spam said:


> That depends. If you do what you need to do to earn a cancel fee, then, its dam straight, you're entitled to the money.


If you're hiding around the corner waiting for the timer to run out you aren't entitled to anything.

If you show up at the pin or address and look for the pax and he doesn't show, then you've earned the cancel fee.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Coachman said:


> But it's not for nothing. The rider is there waiting and ready to go. It's YOUR choice not to take the ride. Nobody screwed you in the deal. Once you choose not to take the ride you're not entitled to anything.


So if a pax doesn't show up, even after I show due diligence... by your logic I'm entitled to nothing.... please tell me you drive


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## Cary Grant (Jul 14, 2015)

The only pax I routinely shuffle are those that wave the red flags:

• Impatient texts and phone calls prior to arrival, especially when I'm making progress and on time.
• ANY negativity via text, phone, body language, or behavior prior to trip start. Sarcasm is all it takes.
• Pax who walk up and grab my car door handle with open containers of alcohol, or any open cups.
• Pax who walk up with open food, who are eating, demonstrating the intent to eat inside my car.
• Anyone asking me to squeeze one or more pax beyond the 4 pax limit. 
• Unaccompanied minors
• Children without car seats
• Anyone that walks out and holds up fingers, indicating they will take more than the 5-minute timer. I nod my head, agree if verbal, and then cancel/collect at the expiration of their allotted time, UNLESS they handed me some cash in advance (this has happened several times, so I'll make exceptions when they are profitable)
• Substantial mis-pins. If they are somewhere else, I ask them to update the pickup location using the app. If they are too far, the app won't let them, and I'll collect the tax. If I move, then pax can reverse-shuffle, and I won't be compensated. So I sit and wait.

I've had pax tell me they had just been shuffled. Sometimes I think they just matched with a bad driver. Other times I suspect the pax had said or done something inappropriate and were legitimately shuffled. There are always two sides to the story, and we're only hearing one.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> So if a pax doesn't show up, even after I show due diligence... by your logic I'm entitled to nothing.... please tell me you drive


Hiding around the corner to do a shuffle is not due diligence.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Coachman said:


> Hiding around the corner to do a shuffle is not due diligence.


Requesting someone to take you somewhere for pennies isn't either....


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> Requesting someone to take you somewhere for pennies isn't either....


If you don't want the ride let some other driver take it. You have no business stealing $5 from a pax who is at the pickup ready to go.

People often excuse their bad behavior by pretending they're the victim.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Coachman said:


> If you don't want the ride let some other driver take it. You have no business stealing $5 from a pax who is at the pickup ready to go.
> 
> People often excuse their bad behavior by pretending they're the victim.


What if they're not at the pickup... that's what I was asking...


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> What if they're not at the pickup... that's what I was asking...


If they're not at the pickup then you've done your due diligence. "Rider not here."

I usually make some minimal effort to find them. At 2 minutes I send a text letting them know I arrived. If they respond I'll try to work within reason to find them. If they've put in an entirely wrong address then I'll cancel and collect.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Coachman said:


> If they're not at the pickup then you've done your due diligence. "Rider not here."


I still see nothing wrong with shuffling... you know what they say about opinions


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> I still see nothing wrong with shuffling... you know what they say about opinions


If you were shuffled as a pax you still wouldn't see anything wrong with it?


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Coachman said:


> If you were shuffled as a pax you still wouldn't see anything wrong with it?


Don't hate the players.... it has been done to me...I didn't come on a forum to cry about the ethics of it


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> Don't hate the players.... it has been done to me...I didn't come on a forum to cry about the ethics of it


As I said, people often excuse their bad behavior by making themselves the victim.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Coachman said:


> As I said, people often excuse their bad behavior by making themselves the victim.


Technically they are victims


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## Valar Dohaeris (May 25, 2019)

Juggalo9er said:


> Technically they are victims


**Juggalo9er watches a $20 fall out of a grandmother's purse as she's walking out of a grocery store and snatches it up** "Grandma needs to do a better job of watching her money. I bet that's happened to me before, too!"


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## Buck-a-mile (Nov 2, 2019)

Juggalo9er said:


> So if a pax doesn't show up, even after I show due diligence... by your logic I'm entitled to nothing.... please tell me you drive


Distort-o-matic. Ever consider politics?


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Buck-a-mile said:


> Distort-o-matic. Ever consider politics?


Evert consider common sense


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Every independent contractor values their time differently. Its like you think we are employees and you want to rat us out to the boss or shame us?... when we are just running our business differently. Uber provides the tools, we use them however we see fit.

The problem is that some passengers abuse the "5 minute wait". They "know" that they can dawdle and expect the driver to be there. This may be ok on a short pickup/long trip, but if its a long pickup/short trip, the 5 minute wait becomes abusive to the driver.

A passenger who has been shuffled because he wasn't toes to curb for a "charity" ride, has learned an important lesson. If that lesson is never taught, Uber can keep lowering fares and further abusing drivers. 

I'm generally not on board with intentional shuffling (like accepting trips while eating at the mall), but if Uber has lowered rates to sub-min wage, that market is broken and drivers can do whatever they want IMO. Its hard to take uber seriously if they don't take drivers seriously.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OldBay said:


> The problem is that some passengers abuse the "5 minute wait". They "know" that they can dawdle and expect the driver to be there. This may be ok on a short pickup/long trip, but if its a long pickup/short trip, the 5 minute wait becomes abusive to the driver.


If a passenger makes you wait 4 minutes and 59 seconds, then 1-star him. If he makes you wait 5 minutes cancel and take your $4. It's pretty simple.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Coachman said:


> If a passenger makes you wait 4 minutes and 59 seconds, then 1-star him. If he makes you wait 5 minutes cancel and take your $4. It's pretty simple.


Thats how you run your business. Not how I run mine.

In my business, I treat myself with respect. I have the other app open and am looking for better opportunities all the time.

If I am waiting a couple minutes, there is no sign or sight of pax and they make no effort to contact me, they are in danger of being shuffled depending on the value of the trip. If I get another trip on Lyft and still no show from the pax, I will shuffle them and then go to the other trip.

A minimum fare trip that takes 20 minutes of my day is treated with the respect it deserves. If a passenger doesn't know these trips are heavily subsidized from the driver's pockets, he doesn't deserve a ride in my car.

Uber is doing these short trips at 1/3 what taxis charge. There is nothing magical going on, uber did not reinvent the economics of taxi. This is coming out of the driver's skin.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OldBay said:


> Thats how you run your business. Not how I run mine.
> 
> In my business, I treat myself with respect. I have the other app open and am looking for better opportunities all the time.
> 
> ...


If you get another better ride while you're waiting for the pax, fine, cancel the ride and take the better opportunity. But if you hide around the corner to wait out the last two minutes of the timer so you can collect $4, you're a thief. If you want to be in business as a thief that's your prerogative.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Coachman said:


> If you get another better ride while you're waiting for the pax, fine, cancel the ride take the better one. But if you hide around the corner to wait out the last two minutes of the timer so you can collect $4, you're a thief. If you want to be in business as a thief that's your prerogative.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

If not stealing from people is "taking the moral high ground" then count me in.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Coachman said:


> If not stealing from people is "taking the moral high ground" then count me in.


Can you look up what code violation shuffling would be...I can't seem to find it in the book the state gave me


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Coachman said:


> If not stealing from people is "taking the moral high ground" then count me in.


Six months ago, I was in your camp. I remember taking a hard line against shuffling.

The reality of the situation did not sink in until I had been doing this full time for going on nine months. Driving in the "hood" for passengers who will trash my car, randomly give out sub-5* ratings, and disrespect my time changed my attitude. Let me guess, you don't drive "the hood" and your market still pays well? (Yeah, you are in DFW, guessing the pax composition is a little different than DC...)

I'm still not advocating for "intentional" shuffles, but I don't wait the full five minutes if I know the trip is garbage. This is on Uber for feeding drivers sub-minimum wage trips. It could be argued that this practice is illegal. And if we are truly ICs, then we can do whatever the hell we want until Uber deactivates us.

If the GPS trace shows that a driver did not wait sufficiently for a passenger, they are able to get a refund by filling out the form or calling.

If you are being forced to provide a service at below cost, you do what you need to do.

Edit: I just found this article on Uber pay by market. DFW is one of the top markets for drivers.

https://www.businessinsider.com/cities-where-uber-and-lyft-drivers-make-the-most-money-2019-5


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OldBay said:


> Six months ago, I was in your camp. I remember taking a hard line against shuffling.
> 
> The reality of the situation did not sink in until I had been doing this full time for going on nine months. Driving in the "hood" for passengers who will trash my car, randomly give out sub-5* ratings, and disrespect my time changed my attitude. Let me guess, you don't drive "the hood" and your market still pays well? (Yeah, you are in DFW, guessing the pax composition is a little different than DC...)
> 
> ...


I sympathize with your plight, but if your market is so bad that you find yourself forced to steal $5 from a guy who just wants a ride from his hotel to the airport, then maybe you ought to consider some other opportunity. Sorry.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Coachman said:


> If your market is so bad that your find yourself forced to steal $5 from a guy who just wants a ride from his hotel to the airport, then maybe you ought to consider some other opportunity. Sorry.


The customers beef is with Uber. If the app allows the practice of shuffling, then its not on the driver. The app is obviously built to give the driver some leeway in how he handles situations. Pax always gets a refund from Uber if they ask.

I dont even shuffle that much, but I'm not going to take the high ground against anyone. You sound like me six month ago. Do you even do this full time?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

If I said it's not right to hit a passenger, is that taking the moral high ground?

Sometimes things are just right or wrong. I just don't see much middle ground here.

BTW, the app allows you to long haul. Is that right or wrong?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> An "algorithm" change will have little to do with it. Someone's noticing a trend and figuring out what to do with it will.


These two items are related.

Someone noticing a trend and figuring out what to do with it is what makes Uber change their algorithm.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Coachman said:


> If I said it's not right to hit a passenger, is that taking the moral high ground?
> 
> Sometimes things are just right or wrong. I just don't see much middle ground here.
> 
> BTW, the app allows you to long haul. Is that right or wrong?


You never answered my questions. I'll just assume you are 1) Part time 2) Driving predominantly white/affluent pax 3) In a profiltable market.

Regarding long haul, that is the driver changing the parameters of the trip.

As I have said, when the parameters of the trip change beyond the driver's control, when the app is wrong about pickup time, or the passenger is late... that is grounds for the driver responding to circumstances.

A shuffle is a response to the app lying about pickup distance/time or the passenger being late to pickup. Some trips in the "grey area" are accepted with an assumption that the pickup time is accurate and the passenger will be toes to curb. When either of those things is not true, the trip goes into the "charity" category and a shuffle is warranted.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

old bay


OldBay said:


> You never answered my questions. I'll just assume you are 1) Part time 2) Driving predominantly white/affluent pax 3) In a profiltable market.
> 
> Regarding long haul, that is the driver changing the parameters of the trip.
> 
> ...


old bay....who do you think you are? the swami of calcutta? lol


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OldBay said:


> You never answered my questions.
> 
> Regarding long haul, that is the driver changing the parameters of the trip.
> 
> ...


You're muddying the waters here by adding other factors, like incorrect pickup details. Sure, if the trip isn't as advertised then cancel. But that doesn't give you an excuse to hide around the corner for 5 minutes.

I rarely get passengers who make me wait more than 2 or 3 minutes. I just don't see how those few trips could make that much of a difference to your bottom line.

But I don't think what you're talking about is really relevant to my OP. I'm talking about true shuffles.

This was about a pax with heels on the curb, and a driver who never showed up at the pickup, but parked up on the corner to wait the timer out.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Coachman said:


> You're muddying the waters here by adding other factors, like incorrect pickup details. Sure, if the trip isn't as advertised then cancel. But that doesn't give you an excuse to hide around the corner for 5 minutes.
> 
> I rarely get passengers who make me wait more than 2 or 3 minutes. I just don't see how those few trips could make that much of a difference to your bottom line.
> 
> ...


I've been clear and consistent on my policy about shuffles and don't lose any sleep over my actions. Take it or leave it.


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## YourFoodIsGettingCold (Nov 22, 2018)

waldowainthrop said:


> I know, I thought about that but I am out of the rideshare game. If anyone thinks it shouldn't be here because it's too valuable, I'll take it down. Otherwise, my Christmas gift to UP.


New around here so, much obliged kind sir.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

YourFoodIsGettingCold said:


> New around here so, much obliged kind sir.


Sure. No two markets are the same but airport lots are generally not good places to wait. If the rides are remotely good from them, people will wait all day in the lot. Rematch is a powerful tool if you have access to it.


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## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

I'll cancel without getting a no-show if it just gets on my nerves. Big resort areas with multiple drop off spots. If you get told incorrectly which spot you lose patience. Also, sometimes you just cant get close enough to get the timer to start.


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## UberLAguy (Aug 2, 2015)

Wait until they all get smart, none of you will ever get cancellation fees because pax now know how to get it back.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

This is dedicated to all of the shufflers out there ...


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Coachman said:


> I rarely get passengers who make me wait more than 2 or 3 minutes. I just don't see how those few trips could make that much of a difference to your bottom line.


Shuffling is an act of raging against the machine, and that machine is Uber. The passenger is merely regarded as collateral damage to those who shuffle. I don't condone the action; it is inherently dishonest. However, when you're trapped in an endless cycle of frustration as these Uber drivers are, the only way you feel better is to screw the company you perceive to be holding you captive.

In reality, these people are held captive by their own lack of marketable skills and their intransigence towards being told what to do. That's why Uber is the only thing they can do. It is a low-barrier-to-entry job with equally low expectations (i.e. attendance, hygiene, attitude) by the entity signing their paycheck.

When can you do nothing else in life, you Uber. And, when even that becomes too hard, you shuffle.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

rkozy said:


> Shuffling is an act of raging against the machine, and that machine is Uber. The passenger is merely regarded as collateral damage to those who shuffle. I don't condone the action; it is inherently dishonest. However, when you're trapped in an endless cycle of frustration as these Uber drivers are, the only way you feel better is to screw the company you perceive to be holding you captive.
> 
> In reality, these people are held captive by their own lack of marketable skills and their intransigence towards being told what to do. That's why Uber is the only thing they can do. It is a low-barrier-to-entry job with equally low expectations (i.e. attendance, hygiene, attitude) by the entity signing their paycheck.
> 
> When can you do nothing else in life, you Uber. And, when even that becomes too hard, you shuffle.


No judgement there..haha


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## Buck-a-mile (Nov 2, 2019)

rkozy said:


> Shuffling is an act of raging against the machine, and that machine is Uber. The passenger is merely regarded as collateral damage to those who shuffle. I don't condone the action; it is inherently dishonest. However, when you're trapped in an endless cycle of frustration as these Uber drivers are, the only way you feel better is to screw the company you perceive to be holding you captive.
> 
> In reality, these people are held captive by their own lack of marketable skills and their intransigence towards being told what to do. That's why Uber is the only thing they can do. It is a low-barrier-to-entry job with equally low expectations (i.e. attendance, hygiene, attitude) by the entity signing their paycheck.
> 
> When can you do nothing else in life, you Uber. And, when even that becomes too hard, you shuffle.


Or retired and like an extra grand a month.

Can't do it fulltime.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Buck-a-mile said:


> Thief
> 
> Or retired and like an extra grand a month.
> 
> Can't do it fulltime.


I use it to fill a couple holes in the budget which aren't covered by my "real job" working fleet logistics. My reference to "shufflers" is confined to those people who are doing Uber as a sole means of living. Most everyone I've met who drives for Uber casually, or as a supplemental income source, is not gaming the system by routinely shuffling pax.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

rkozy said:


> I use it to fill a couple holes in the budget which aren't covered by my "real job" working fleet logistics. My reference to "shufflers" is confined to those people who are doing Uber as a sole means of living. Most everyone I've met who drives for Uber casually, or as a supplemental income source, is not gaming the system by routinely shuffling pax.


Whats your point? Naturally there is a world of difference between doing this for hooker money vs rent money...duh..


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

5☆OG said:


> No judgement there..haha


The simple fact is that drivers who shuffle WOULD NOT want the same thing done to them under the same circumstances. I have no compunction in judging people who are raging hypocrites.

Some of the pax who are shuffled ostensibly end up showing late for, or missing work, doctor's appointments, court dates, family functions, and the like. Uber is screwing drivers. Drivers have decided to screw pax in order to "make things fair" for everyone. It's a very distorted values system...if one can even call it a values system at all.


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## Buck-a-mile (Nov 2, 2019)

Just so you know, I was using voice input . "Thief" was innserted by Lester Holt on NBC news.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

rkozy said:


> The simple fact is that drivers who shuffle WOULD NOT want the same thing done to them under the same circumstances. I feel no compunction in judging people who are raging hypocrites.
> 
> Some of the pax who are shuffled ostensibly end up showing late for, or missing work, doctor's appointments, court dates, family functions, and the like. Uber is screwing drivers. Drivers have decided to screw pax in order to "make things fair" for everyone. It's a very distorted values system...if one can even call it a values system at all.


I guess you are entitled to your opinion


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

5☆OG said:


> I guess you are entitled to your opinion


As we all are. I'm getting the hint that you view shuffling as something acceptable, even if the pax is harmed in some way by the practice.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

rkozy said:


> As we all are. I'm getting the hint that you view shuffling as something acceptable, even if the pax is harmed in some way by the practice.


Ok lets talk about harm such as not being tipped. You think im running a charity? That hurts me..and before you start on weather i should or shouldent be tipped my rating is 4.98 with over 10k rides. If nothing else based on my rating i deserve a tip EVERY TIME ..and dont get me started on abusive customers who make false claims to get free rides. And on top of that the possibility that i may be fired unjustifiably...or how abusive the rating system is...i could run a list for hours but you get the point..i hope and if you dont then you dont...shuffling a passanger is nothing more to me then a tip i didnt get..i really dont care if you agree or not...


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Ah... the victim excuse.


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## YourFoodIsGettingCold (Nov 22, 2018)

rkozy said:


> Some of the pax who are shuffled ostensibly end up showing late for, or missing work, doctor's appointments, court dates, family functions, and the like. Uber is screwing drivers. Drivers have decided to screw pax in order to "make things fair" for everyone. It's a very distorted values system...if one can even call it a values system at all.


I don't do it myself but if someone misses any of those engagements due to an uber driver shuffling them, then I highly doubt they did any planning in advance. What if there were no drivers available in a given area? Does the customer now get to blame Uber directly?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

5☆OG said:


> And on top of that the possibility that i may be fired unjustifiably...or how abusive the rating system is...i could run a list for hours but you get the point..i hope and if you dont then you dont..


We can find common ground on the abject stupidity of Uber's rating system, and on the reckless disregard for investigating specious claims by passengers looking to score a free ride. Uber has created an adversarial relationship between driver and passenger in their quest to squeeze maximum revenue from both parties. I don't disagree at all.

Where we part company is on how you treat passengers who have done nothing to you personally. If you're shuffling a pax, odds are you have never had them in your car before. You are shuffling somebody who may have tipped you $10 in cash. You are shuffling somebody who may have been very pleasant, and perhaps might have made your day with a nice comment. You are shuffling somebody who simply needed a ride somewhere, and you've summarily decided they must be held accountable for the sins of past riders.

Would you want a passenger holding you accountable for the sins of other drivers?


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

YourFoodIsGettingCold said:


> I don't do it myself but if someone misses any of those engagements due to an uber driver shuffling them, then I highly doubt they did any planning in advance. What if there were no drivers available in a given area? Does the customer now get to blame Uber directly?


F the passangers they are moochers looking for a freebie, in spite of the fact that we offer them an on demand service at the third of a cost of a cab. Instead we get monkey shit thrown in our faces on a daily basis...and people here dont understand ? Well then lets just chalk it up to a difference of opinion.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

YourFoodIsGettingCold said:


> What if there were no drivers available in a given area? Does the customer now get to blame Uber directly?


Having no drivers available in a given area, and having drivers who are purposefully scamming passengers for personal gain aren't even remotely comparable items.


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## #professoruber (Feb 19, 2018)

This is what I deal with constantly. This ride was dispatched at 2:55 and the pickup was less than 5 minutes from me. In this case, I went #2 and left so i would arrive exactly on time.

Hell yeah your getting shuffled when I show up at 3:15 and you come out when I arrive and try to tell me that the ride is for 3:25 and I need to wait. I always nod to agree to disagree.

I do what is required which is wait 5 minutes and collect knowing damn well your not getting a ride once I go offline as I am driving away.


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## YourFoodIsGettingCold (Nov 22, 2018)

rkozy said:


> Having no drivers available in a given area, and having drivers who are purposefully scamming passengers for personal gain aren't even remotely comparable items.


What about this part?

"I don't do it myself but if someone misses any of those engagements due to an uber driver shuffling them, then I highly doubt they did any planning in advance."


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

rkozy said:


> We can find common ground on the abject stupidity of Uber's rating system, and on the reckless disregard for investigating specious claims by passengers looking to score a free ride. Uber has created an adversarial relationship between driver and passenger in their quest to squeeze maximum revenue from both parties. I don't disagree at all.
> 
> Where we part company is on how you treat passengers who have done nothing to you personally. If you're shuffling a pax, odds are you have never had them in your car before. You are shuffling somebody who may have tipped you $10 in cash. You are shuffling somebody who may have been very pleasant, and perhaps might have made your day with a nice comment. You are shuffling somebody who simply needed a ride somewhere, and you've summarily decided they must be held accountable for the sins of past riders.
> 
> Would you want a passenger holding you accountable for the sins of other drivers?


I shuffle losers...express pool 7 min to the north with a 4.33 rating...etc....im not here to ask for your approval its just the way i do things..my numbers speak for themselves anyone would be lucky to get me as a driver ...im the shit my man...the rest can blow me


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

YourFoodIsGettingCold said:


> What about this part?
> 
> "I don't do it myself but if someone misses any of those engagements due to an uber driver shuffling them, then I highly doubt they did any planning in advance."


So, passengers should just plan on being shuffled multiple times before obtaining an honest driver?

When I go into a restaurant, I don't plan on somebody spitting in my food because they hate customers and/or the restaurant they work for. It seems if a passenger has made a reasonable expectation of travel time via rideshare, they shouldn't have to worry about calculating an additional hour for the retaliatory actions of disgruntled drivers.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

rkozy said:


> So, passengers should just plan on being shuffled multiple times before obtaining an honest driver?
> 
> When I go into a restaurant, I don't plan on somebody spitting in my food because they hate customers and/or the restaurant they work for. It seems if a passenger has made a reasonable expectation of travel time via rideshare, they shouldn't have to worry about calculating an additional hour for the retaliatory actions of disgruntled drivers.


Are you a driver? Or are you being dense on purpose? I mean really , you have no clue why a driver may do this? I find that hard to believe. Try doing 10,000 rides and let me know how you feel then...im done with this subject ,i think ive made my policies clear...thanks and gl out there !


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

#professoruber said:


> This is what I deal with constantly. This ride was dispatched at 2:55 and the pickup was less than 5 minutes from me. In this case, I went #2 and left so i would arrive exactly on time.


That's not a shuffle. You did your due diligence by waiting for the pax to show up. It isn't your fault Uber can't dispatch properly, and it's not your responsibility to cover for Uber's gaping errors.



5☆OG said:


> Are you a driver? Or are you being dense on purpose?


Didn't take you long to reach Ad Hominem Land, did it?


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

rkozy said:


> That's not a shuffle. You did your due diligence by waiting for the pax to show up. It isn't your fault Uber can't dispatch properly, and it's not your responsibility to cover for Uber's gaping errors.
> 
> 
> Didn't take you long to reach Ad Hominem Land, did it?


I spent more time then you deserved..have a nice night


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## YourFoodIsGettingCold (Nov 22, 2018)

rkozy said:


> So, passengers should just plan on being shuffled multiple times before obtaining an honest driver?


Anyone planning in advance would realize they are depending on someone else (a total stranger) to take them from A-B. Also that they could encounter a construction detour, car accident, or good oldfashioned traffic congestion. All of that, let alone a court date or doctor's appointment are worth planning in advance for.



rkozy said:


> When I go into a restaurant, I don't plan on somebody spitting in my food because they hate customers and/or the restaurant they work for.


I don't think a waitress spitting in your food and drivers shuffling passengers are comparable items.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

5☆OG said:


> I spent more time then you deserved..have a nice night


Well, at least you helped prove my theorem about career Uber drivers' intransigence towards doing the simplest of tasks.



YourFoodIsGettingCold said:


> I don't think a waitress spitting in your food and drivers shuffling passengers are comparable items.


Both are acts of spite towards paying customers, borne from the frustration of doing a job. They are most definitely analogous.

When an Uber passenger pays for a fare, and you leave them stranded because you harbor animosity against passengers (and Uber itself) you are sabotaging something they paid for in good faith.

...Just like the waitress who spits in the salad you paid for.


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## #professoruber (Feb 19, 2018)

Smh - Uber drivers arguing about what is or not is a shuffle. His ass was shuffled as he watched my car drive off.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

#professoruber said:


> Smh - Uber drivers arguing about what is or not is a shuffle. His ass was shuffled as he watched my car drive off.


If he was able to watch your car drive off, you must have not been hiding. Typically, shuffling a passenger involves hiding from them.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

Got some sweet video dropping off some of my passangers today.....


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## YourFoodIsGettingCold (Nov 22, 2018)

rkozy said:


> Well, at least you helped prove my theorem about career Uber drivers' intransigence towards doing the simplest of tasks.
> 
> 
> Both are acts of spite towards paying customers, borne from the frustration of doing a job. They are most definitely analogous.
> ...


Yeah I definitely see the retaliation dynamic you're trying to use to connect but it only applies some of the time with Rideshare and 100% of the time with restaurants because you don't know that the waitress has just spit in your food or plans to.

The vast majority of the time, drivers see an opportunity to pull up and leave because the passenger is not toes to the curb. They typically have an opportunity to receive the service that they are paying for while the loogie customer doesn't stand a chance. On top of that, hate is a strong word, it's more likely about the cash then sticking it to the customer.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

rkozy said:


> The simple fact is that drivers who shuffle WOULD NOT want the same thing done to them under the same circumstances. I have no compunction in judging people who are raging hypocrites.
> 
> Some of the pax who are shuffled ostensibly end up showing late for, or missing work, doctor's appointments, court dates, family functions, and the like. Uber is screwing drivers. Drivers have decided to screw pax in order to "make things fair" for everyone. It's a very distorted values system...if one can even call it a values system at all.





rkozy said:


> Well, at least you helped prove my theorem about career Uber drivers' intransigence towards doing the simplest of tasks.
> 
> 
> Both are acts of spite towards paying customers, borne from the frustration of doing a job. They are most definitely analogous.
> ...


Not the same thing. Spitting in a customers food does not get the waitress paid more.

A shuffle is a way to compensate for when the algorithm tricks you into taking dangerous or sub-minimum wage trips.

You are under the misconception that a shuffle is an act of rebellion, with the passenger as collateral damage. Actually, it is a break down of service when Uber pays drivers too little for unprofitable/undesirable trips.

Lets say you are a house cleaner. The booking service offers you $60 to clean a standard 4-bedroom house, but when you arrive you find its a mansion. Do you clean it for $60? Do you not clean it and miss a day's worth of pay?

Shuffled trips are a breakdown / misrepresentation of the job. You sign up to drive a safe, respectful passenger from A-B. The pick up is at a crack house in the darkest neighborhood. Do you cancel the trip and keep driving? Or do you shuffle and get some compensation for your time?

Four minute trip, pickup at Sam's Club, passenger has a whole palette of goods that will take a ton of effort/time to load/unload. Do you cancel and get nothing, or do you shuffle? You're not a moving service. You *could* load and unload, but the added time makes the trip deeply unprofitable and based on ethnicity you know the pax will not tip. You shuffle.

5 min / 5 min trip morphs into a 15 min pickup (traffic) minimum fare trip, and the pax is angry because you are late. Do you take the trip and the 1*, cancel, or shuffle? Cancel is not right because you fought gridlock for 15 minutes. Taking him is not right because he's angry. In this case I shuffle.

You arrive at the hospital to find a nurse trying to load a passenger who can't walk into your car. You tell them you aren't able to help them on the other side, they need to call a medical transport. Do you cancel and get nothing? Or do you shuffle and collect a fee to cover the time / travel? you shuffle!

Cases for shuffling can absolutely be made. This is not black and white.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OldBay said:


> You are under the misconception that a shuffle is an act of rebellion, with the passenger as collateral damage. Actually, it is a break down of service when Uber pays drivers too little for unprofitable/undesirable trips.


If you arrive at the pickup and discover it's a Walmart and therefore decide the trip is undesirable, what makes you feel you're entitled to take the passenger's $5?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

OldBay said:


> Not the same thing. Spitting in a customers food does not get the waitress paid more.
> 
> Cases for shuffling can absolutely be made. This is not black and white.


A waitress still gets paid by her employer if she spits in your food (undetected) to seek revenge. She is sabotaging something you paid for, just as a driver is sabotaging a ride the passenger paid for.

Like with most anything, there can be "isolated instances" where a justifiable case for collecting a cancel fee can be presented. Those are rare circumstances. The overwhelming prevalence of elective shuffling as it is discussed here, does not correspond to those rare exceptions.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Coachman said:


> If you arrive at the pickup and discover it's a Walmart and therefore decide the trip is undesirable, what makes you feel you're entitled to take the passenger's $5?


The parameters of the trip changed greatly when you discovered they have a large palette full of goods to move. All of a sudden its a sub-min wage charity trip. They probably should have called an XL. Even though you could cancel, you drove 7 minutes there and need compensation for your time.



rkozy said:


> A waitress still gets paid by her employer if she spits in your food (undetected) to seek revenge. She is sabotaging something you paid for, just as a driver is sabotaging a ride the passenger paid for.
> 
> Like with most anything, there can be "isolated instances" where a justifiable case for collecting a cancel fee can be presented. Those are rare circumstances. The overwhelming prevalence of elective shuffling as it is discussed here, does not correspond to those rare exceptions.


You didn't address my point. Its like you aren't following the rules of logic and discourse.

You can't win an argument against me, but you can outlast me. Its not worth my time. Later.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Coachman said:


> If you arrive at the pickup and discover it's a Walmart and therefore decide the trip is undesirable, what makes you feel you're entitled to take the passenger's $5?


Because he said so. Drivers who shuffle have appointed themselves judge, jury and executioner.

That's why they can't obtain gainful employment in the real world. Workplaces will not tolerate that kind of willful deceit, nor could they function as a company if they did.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OldBay said:


> The parameters of the trip changed greatly when you discovered they have a large palette full of goods to move. All of a sudden its a sub-min wage charity trip. They probably should have called an XL.


You have to exaggerate the conditions in order to make it remotely believable.

I've done many Walmart and grocery runs. It's never taken more than about 30 seconds to load a cart of groceries into my trunk. In my experience, they're usually rushing a bit because they know it's an inconvenience as I'm standing there watching them. Most Walmart pickups don't have a cart anyway. They usually have a couple bags they're carrying or they're employees going home from work.



> Even though you could cancel, you drove 7 minutes there and need compensation for your time.


The customer isn't responsible for your dead time. It's your choice to make it dead time by canceling the ride.

The deal is you drive to the pickup and wait 5 minutes in full view where the customer can find you. If they don't find you in 5 minutes then you've earned your $4. The customer understands the agreement and forfeits their $5 if they don't show up.


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## YourFoodIsGettingCold (Nov 22, 2018)

rkozy said:


> Like with most anything, there can be "isolated instances" where a justifiable case for collecting a cancel fee can be presented. Those are rare circumstances.


Like when OJ Simpson, George Zimmerman, and Casey Anthony host their book club meeting at your restaurant. It's that rare circumstance when it's okay to spit in someone's food. Got it!


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Coachman said:


> The customer isn't responsible for your dead time. It's your choice to make it dead time by canceling the ride.


Look back a few posts at the list of scenarios I gave. You can see that there are absolutely times when trip's scope increases beyond the pay offered. And that this is the passenger's fault. Yes, the drivers deserves compensation for his time, like he does with unaccompanied minors, no child seats, and open containers.

Uber could fix this by compensating drivers when the parameters of the trip change. They could start by offering legitimate wait rates.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OldBay said:


> Look back a few posts at the list of scenarios I gave. You can see that there are absolutely times when trip's scope increases beyond the pay offered. And that this is the passenger's fault. Yes, the drivers deserves compensation for his time, like he does with unaccompanied minors, no child seats, and open containers.
> 
> Uber could fix this by compensating drivers when the parameters of the trip change. They could start by offering legitimate wait rates.


I saw your earlier parameter changes. One example you gave is getting a pickup in an unsafe neighborhood. And I've got a little problem with that. Because if I ever found myself in an unsafe situation I would high-tail it out of there as quickly as possible. If you're willing to park around the corner and sit for five minutes then it must not be so unsafe after all.

I've never just suddenly found myself in an unsafe neighborhood. I don't know how it works in your city. But if I was near enough to a ghetto to be getting pings I think I'd turn off the app for a few minutes while I relocated to a better area.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Coachman said:


> I saw your earlier parameter changes. One example you gave is getting a pickup in an unsafe neighborhood. And I've got a little problem with that. Because if I ever found myself in an unsafe situation I would high-tail it out of there as quickly as possible. If you're willing to park around the corner and sit for five minutes then it must not be so unsafe after all.
> 
> I've never just suddenly found myself in an unsafe neighborhood. I don't know how it works in your city. But if I was near enough to a ghetto to be getting pings I think I'd turn off the app for a few minutes while I relocated to a better area.


Section 8 housing is shoe horned between nice neighborhoods in my area. Sometimes just being one street over, under a street light is better than waiting on a dark street.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OldBay said:


> Section 8 housing is shoe horned between nice neighborhoods in my area. Sometimes just being one street over, under a street light is better than waiting on a dark street.


I don't know if you realize how ridiculous you're starting to sound. You shuffle people because they're poor?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

5☆OG said:


> shuffling a passanger is nothing more to me then a tip i didnt get


yeah, but you punishing the wrong person, aye?


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

SHalester said:


> yeah, but you punishing the wrong person, aye?


What is this? The moral compass hour? Lol


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

5☆OG said:


> The moral compass hour?


feeling the pressure? Shuffling (hiding from the pax) is plain wrong. You can't justify it, ever. And it wouldn't take a whole lot for Uber to fix it either. So, the pax don't know or don't complain. But if they did, count on it being fixed. As a pax if I'm ever shuffled that driver will not be happy with the results.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Coachman said:


> I don't know if you realize how ridiculous you're starting to sound. You shuffle people because they're poor?


No, it was just an example. If someone else chooses to shuffle, I can't know their circumstances and I won't judge. Just that there ARE circumstances that warrant a shuffle.

I can say that poor people from the hood are the highest risk, dirtiest, *smelliest*, I have driven. And they are responsible for almost all sub-5 ratings.

Any given dreg, there is a 50% chance they will stink up the car with a lasting funk that requires seat cleaning. Bad neighborhood, poor people, always short trips, usually with stops, yeah if they arent toes to curb in section 8, they aren't getting a ride.

Guessing you don't drive them. You have no idea.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Coachman said:


> You shuffle people because they're poor?


I am an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action shuffler. Every user has the same opportunity to get shuffled by me and I will see to it that as many people as possible get shuffled. This goes double on POOL. The one exception is Shared. As Gr*yft* no longer pays cancellations on subsequent Shared passengers (they charge those passengers, they just do not give the driver anything), Gr*yft* Shared customers do not have the same opportunity to get shuffled as I will not accept Shared.


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## Halfmybrain (Mar 3, 2018)

"Oh sure I'm William. Or Maurice, or Nancy. Just get me the hell out of here."

NEVER tell someone your rider's name.



Working4peanuts said:


> I'm an @@@@@@@ (it is a prerequisite of the job), but not a COMPLETE @@@@@@@).
> 
> Pax who downrate you for no reason however are COMPLETE @@@@@@@@.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

SHalester said:


> feeling the pressure? Shuffling (hiding from the pax) is plain wrong. You can't justify it, ever. And it wouldn't take a whole lot for Uber to fix it either. So, the pax don't know or don't complain. But if they did, count on it being fixed. As a pax if I'm ever shuffled that driver will not be happy with the results.


Pressure? No not at all...what i do feel is contempt for this company and the passangers that abuse the drivers...thats it ..the end...


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OldBay said:


> No, it was just an example. If someone else chooses to shuffle, I can't know their circumstances and I won't judge. Just that there ARE circumstances that warrant a shuffle.


Perhaps there are some justified shuffles. But I can't think of any good reason that would justify leaving that poor guy waiting at the hotel.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Juggalo9er said:


> Can you look up what code violation shuffling would be...I can't seem to find it in the book the state gave me


1.) Straw man argument. Whether the state allows shuffling or not. The argument was about morality not law. Morality and law are two separate things. Things can be immoral but legal, or illegal but not immoral.

2.) State law likely considers scamming to be illegal. No state code is gonna describe every conceivable scam that exists.


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## Lyftuber100 (Nov 14, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> This is great advice. I found this trick out when I missed a rematch once: go to a ride-generating hotel less than 10 minutes from the big international airport and then re-roll on the rematch by getting a ride back to the airport. No waiting behind 80 drivers and I got paid for most of the downtime. I think a lot of drivers haven't figured this one out.


Correction, sometimes you get a rematch, sometimes you dont. Keep that in mind.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Lyftuber100 said:


> Correction, sometimes you get a rematch, sometimes you dont. Keep that in mind.


I am well aware. If that were a thread I would have titled it "why you should not join the queue when you don't get a rematch immediately". This is the solution to the problem of not getting a rematch if you find yourself at a far away airport with a long queue.


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## Lyftuber100 (Nov 14, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Smarter than average rideshare user.


I've had riders cancel when I'm 1 minute away. Is that a game the riders play?


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Lyftuber100 said:


> I've had riders cancel when I'm 1 minute away. Is that a game the riders play?


Saved you 5 minutes of shuffling/waiting. I encourage more riders to play that game and subsidize the rideshare economy.


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## Lyftuber100 (Nov 14, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> I am well aware. If that were a thread I would have titled it "why you should not join the queue when you don't get a rematch immediately". This is the solution to the problem of not getting a rematch if you find yourself at a far away airport with a long queue.


What are the average dollar amount you make on these rematch fares?



waldowainthrop said:


> Saved you 5 minutes of shuffling/waiting. I encourage more riders to play that game and subsidize the rideshare economy.


Yes, but I didnt get any shuffle fee out of it.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Lyftuber100 said:


> What are the average dollar amount you make on these rematch fares?


I'm done driving and only used this trick a couple of times since I don't live near the big international airport.

From memory we are talking $25 to the airport, no rematch, 8 minutes of dead miles out of the airport to a hotel hub, $12 back into the airport, rematch $25 back to downtown. So that's >$25/hour for three fares instead of <$20/hour for two fares plus 30-60+ minutes of dead time in the lot. These are rough figures but account for opportunity costs like 5+ minutes of dead miles for getting from terminal to airport waiting lot at this airport. Essentially I picked a different waiting lot outside the airport with shorter waiting times, and got to roll twice on rematch. This strategy also adds value to supposedly bad trips like 8 minute trips out of the airport to a nearby hotel.

How effective the strategy is depends on the airport, time of day, how close the nearest airport hotel hub is, how much dead miles vs. sitting in a lot costs you, and how you value your time. It's not a useful trick unless the airport has good rematch opportunities.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

reg barclay said:


> 1.) Straw man argument. Whether the state allows shuffling or not. The argument was about morality not law. Morality and law are two separate things. Things can be immoral but legal, or illegal but not immoral.
> 
> 2.) State law likely considers scamming to be illegal. No state code is gonna describe every conceivable scam that exists.


Florida 812.012 includes theft of services as a crime. It is my understanding that the service provider failing to give a service can also be charged with theft of services just like a person failing to pay for a service can be charged.

2. Other conduct similar in nature.
(4) "Property" means anything of value, and includes:
(a) Real property, including things growing on, affixed to, and found in land.
(b) Tangible or intangible personal property, including rights, privileges, interests, and claims.
(c) Services.
(5) "Property of another" means property in which a person has an interest upon which another person is not privileged to infringe without consent, whether or not the other person also has an interest in the property.
(6) "Services" means anything of value resulting from a person's physical or mental labor or skill, or from the use, possession, or presence of property, and includes:
(a) Repairs or improvements to property.
(b) Professional services.
(c) Private, public, or government communication, transportation, power, water, or sanitation services.



Lyftuber100 said:


> I've had riders cancel when I'm 1 minute away. Is that a game the riders play?


Kind of a game. A PAX will request a ride on Uber and on Lyft, they know they have X amount of time to cancel with no fee so they will see who will get there first and cancel the other. - I blame other drivers that are not quick to respond to accepted rides for this.

Also a true game is a group of people will all request a ride at the same time. As the cancel without a fee time nears the person that has the ride that is estimated to get there first loses and pays for the ride. The others cancel before the designated time passes to get charged a fee.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Juggalo9er said:


> Pax do not have names


Man idk if you should be hanging
out with us anymore
You might end up like the
Bad Lieutenant


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Man idk if you should be hanging
> out with us anymore
> You might end up like the
> Bad Lieutenant


I don't think you know what I do at my full time


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Juggalo9er said:


> I don't think you know what I do at my full time


You are a cop right?
People are generally innocent 
till proven guilty.
Hanging around here is gonna make
you think everyone's an asshole..


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

5☆OG said:


> passangers that abuse the drivers...thats it ..the end


right. What percent of total paying customers abuse drivers? 1 out of a million?


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

SHalester said:


> right. What percent of total paying customers abuse drivers? 1 out of a million?


Asking that question makes you look inexperienced...go troll another thread



5☆OG said:


> Asking that question makes you look inexperienced...go troll another thread


I think my position on this subject is pretty clear...go back and read my posts or get a hobby or something lol


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

5☆OG said:


> Asking that question makes you look inexperienced


no answer? There are 3-5 million rides on ave per day. How many of those is the 'driver' abused? 
and please, google 'forum troll' you need to be educated as how the term is used. tata


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)

SHalester said:


> no answer? There are 3-5 million rides on ave per day. How many of those is the 'driver' abused?
> and please, google 'forum troll' you need to be educated as how the term is used. tata


Yes dear


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

The vast majority of rides are uneventful. The pax is either on the curb or out within the first minute or so. I did five rides today and all were on the curb except one who made me wait about two minutes.


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