# Uber's 3.9 million drivers are a major risk to the company's bottom line



## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

*Uber's 3.9 million drivers are a major risk to the company's bottom line*​https://finance.yahoo.com/news/uber...sk-to-the-companys-bottom-line-145846980.html
Judging by Uber's stock (UBER) still trading below its $45 initial public offering price, investors haven't forgotten about one major risk to the ride-hailing giant's very existence.

That is what happens to Uber's bottom line and cash flow statement should some 3.9 million drivers be forced by state governments to be classified as full-time employees as opposed to independent contractors. If they are considered to be employees, it could materially raise Uber's costs as it pays out a variety of benefits inherent to being a staffer.

Uber made such a risk quite clear in its prospectus, which was dropped ahead of its headline-grabbing IPO in May.

Tusk Ventures CEO Bradley Tusk, Uber's first public policy advisor hired by founder Travis Kalanick in 2015, says the company hasn't made a mistake by not classifying its drivers as employees.

"I think that is an issue where both sides are taking an extreme position and the reality is somewhere in between," Tusk said on Yahoo Finance's The First Trade. "If you are, say a New York City Uber driver and you are working 70 hours a week you are clearly a full-time employee and to think otherwise is ridiculous. If you are a college student or senior citizen driving 12 hours a week, you are clearly not a full-time employee."


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

WAHN said:


> *Uber's 3.9 million drivers are a major risk to the company's bottom line*​https://finance.yahoo.com/news/uber...sk-to-the-companys-bottom-line-145846980.html
> Judging by Uber's stock (UBER) still trading below its $45 initial public offering price, investors haven't forgotten about one major risk to the ride-hailing giant's very existence.
> 
> That is what happens to Uber's bottom line and cash flow statement should some 3.9 million drivers be forced by state governments to be classified as full-time employees as opposed to independent contractors. If they are considered to be employees, it could materially raise Uber's costs as it pays out a variety of benefits inherent to being a staffer.
> ...


.....And judging from the number of driver sexual assaults and kidnapping arrests
Uber Drivers are a "Major Risk" to any community ⚠


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## Alantc (Jun 15, 2018)

WAHN said:


> *Uber's 3.9 million drivers are a major risk to the company's bottom line*​https://finance.yahoo.com/news/uber...sk-to-the-companys-bottom-line-145846980.html
> Judging by Uber's stock (UBER) still trading below its $45 initial public offering price, investors haven't forgotten about one major risk to the ride-hailing giant's very existence.
> 
> That is what happens to Uber's bottom line and cash flow statement should some 3.9 million drivers be forced by state governments to be classified as full-time employees as opposed to independent contractors. If they are considered to be employees, it could materially raise Uber's costs as it pays out a variety of benefits inherent to being a staffer.
> ...


If drivers become classified as employees, would you think u/l would just make them par time employees instead, so they wouldn't half to pay all these benefits


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

If I wanted to be an employee
I would/will get a regular job


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Cars will be automated before 3.9 million drivers are ever legally classified as employees.


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Alantc said:


> If drivers become classified as employees, would you think u/l would just make them par time employees instead, so they wouldn't half to pay all these benefits


Just my opinion, but absolutely.

They would have as few employees classified as full-time as they could get away with without impacting driver availability.

OT would also be avoided like the plague.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

WAHN said:


> *Uber's 3.9 million drivers are a major risk to the company's bottom line*​https://finance.yahoo.com/news/uber...sk-to-the-companys-bottom-line-145846980.html
> Judging by Uber's stock (UBER) still trading below its $45 initial public offering price, investors haven't forgotten about one major risk to the ride-hailing giant's very existence.
> 
> That is what happens to Uber's bottom line and cash flow statement should some 3.9 million drivers be forced by state governments to be classified as full-time employees as opposed to independent contractors. If they are considered to be employees, it could materially raise Uber's costs as it pays out a variety of benefits inherent to being a staffer.
> ...


How can he say they didn't make a mistake and then say if you work 70 you are a full time "employee".



Alantc said:


> If drivers become classified as employees, would you think u/l would just make them par time employees instead, so they wouldn't half to pay all these benefits


What benefits. part and full time get the same benefits of workers comp and the company contributing to FICA, unemployment benefits, the only benefit that a part timer doesn't get in some places is an option to get heatlhcare.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Alantc said:


> If drivers become classified as employees, would you think u/l would just make them par time employees instead, so they wouldn't half to pay all these benefits


Wouldn't you? Why classify people as full time and double your expenses when you can just as easily double the number of drivers, make everyone part time and lower your operation costs?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Alantc said:


> If drivers become classified as employees, would you think u/l would just make them par time employees instead, so they wouldn't half to pay all these benefits


doesn't matter if you're a part time or full time employee, you're still an employee



Uber's Guber said:


> Cars will be automated before 3.9 million drivers are ever legally classified as employees.


after ab5 passes on the 10th and Newsom signs it into law drivers will be employees...are you saying cars are already automated ?


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

Uber's Guber said:


> Cars will be automated before 3.9 million drivers are ever legally classified as employees.


We are decades away from that. Besides, drivers are cheaper than automated cars.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Fozzie said:


> Wouldn't you? Why classify people as full time and double your expenses when you can just as easily double the number of drivers, make everyone part time and lower your operation costs?


If they can get enough drivers I'm sure they will.

Problem is can they get enough drivers to fill the clock?


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

RabbleRouser said:


> .....And judging from the number of driver sexual assaults and kidnapping arrests
> Uber Drivers are a "Major Risk" to any community ⚠


Every community in which Uber/Lyft use for their profit should socially audit the company to determine if they are making each of the communities (which includes drivers, passengers, and residents) better or worse. I will venture to guess that they have overstepped many redlines and are no longer good for the common good in many communities out there.


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

nouberipo said:


> Every community in which Uber/Lyft use for their profit should socially audit the company to determine if they are making each of the communities (which includes drivers, passengers, and residents) better or worse. I will venture to guess that they have overstepped many redlines and are no longer good for the common good in many communities out there.


The numbers are actually astronomically low based on the number of rides. Many of the problems are from people posing as drivers and passengers not being able to follow simple steps of verification.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> after ab5 passes on the 10th and Newsom signs it into law drivers will be employees...are you saying cars are already automated ?


If AB5 is signed into law in it's current form, Uber/Lyft would have no choice but to cease operations in CA, and perhaps it's just as well because driver rates have been cut too many times anyway. A "guaranteed minimum wage" minus the opportunity to set our own hours is a shitty deal for the majority of drivers who do this shit less than 10 or 20 hours a week. If you need a full-time job with benefits there are better full-time opportunities than driving your own vehicle to shit. As for AB5, this is just another ploy for legislators to scare the money-makers into greasing a few corrupt palms, and then AB5 will either be dramatically changed or simply tossed into the round file.


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

Uber's Guber said:


> If AB5 is signed into law in it's current form, Uber/Lyft would have no choice but to cease operations in CA, and perhaps it's just as well because driver rates have been cut too many times anyway. A "guaranteed minimum wage" minus the opportunity to set our own hours is a shitty deal for the majority of drivers who do this shit less than 10 or 20 hours a week. If you need a full-time job with benefits there are better full-time opportunities than driving your own vehicle to shit. As for AB5, this is just another ploy for legislators to scare the money-makers into greasing a few corrupt palms, and then AB5 will either be dramatically changed or simply tossed into the round file.


This is why they will be forced into concessions to keep us as independent contractors: such as base fare minimum, fare percentage for diver regulations, trip information before acceptance, acceptance rate will become moot, etc etc. Ideally a flat booking fee is the best option for everyone with Uber and Lyft getting ZERO of the actual fare.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> If they can get enough drivers I'm sure they will.
> 
> Problem is can they get enough drivers to fill the clock?


they prove that it's possible EVERYDAY.


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## IthurstwhenIP (Jan 12, 2018)

Simply from a crime prevention perspective Uber probably provides huge social good by giving an alternative. Figure the law will time perfectly to the rise of unemployment


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

nosurgenodrive said:


> This is why they will be forced into concessions to keep us as independent contractors


And there will be concessions that will satisfy the corrupt foes at the legislature as well as the corrupt foes at Uber/Lyft, because both compliment each other. As for _driver _concessions, you will continue to get the short end of the shit-stick. You think CA legislators give a meaningful shit about all you minions? Answer that question as you step around homeless encampments and their piles of human feces & abandoned needles, all within a short distance from the very legislators who make policy. If CA legislators were concerned about wages, rent prices, etc, they wouldn't spend so much time figuring out how to sneak more illiterate low-skilled undocumented illegal aliens into this "sanctuary" state.
I reiterate, If you need a full-time job with benefits there are better full-time opportunities than driving your own vehicle to shit. Uber/Lyft will never be a meaningful living, no matter how much the government "intervenes" on your behalf.


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

Lol, major risk?

Try the end.

Cue the QQ


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## Rockocubs (Jul 31, 2017)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> If I wanted to be an employee
> I would/will get a regular job


Couldn't agree more. You become an employee see your fleability disapeer.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

I'd like to see the state geofenced like Austin. For some reason, no one in the media is considering this option.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

RabbleRouser said:


> .....And judging from the number of driver sexual assaults and kidnapping arrests
> Uber Drivers are a "Major Risk" to any community ⚠


Drivers get attacked by pax too. As a matter of fact, a pax can be a rape and murder felon and order an Uber.

Uber drivers on the other hand do have to go through a vetting process.


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## PTB (Feb 3, 2015)

Uber hasn't made a profit since inception, who cares about the bottom line.
The real bottom line for them is being able to CASH-OUT and buy mansions and other toys.


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## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

Ya'll don't have something better to do than talk about this stupid sh*t? This isn't like a real job!


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## PTB (Feb 3, 2015)

Fat Man said:


> Ya'll don't have something better to do than talk about this stupid sh*t? This isn't like a real job!


No


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## RektorChris (Jul 8, 2019)

nosurgenodrive said:


> This is why they will be forced into concessions to keep us as independent contractors: such as base fare minimum, fare percentage for diver regulations, trip information before acceptance, acceptance rate will become moot, etc etc. Ideally a flat booking fee is the best option for everyone with Uber and Lyft getting ZERO of the actual fare.


Not really. The one thing your missing is. If they keep us as independent contractors, they need to add their base fare to probably $1.50 and keep it that way no matter the length of time or distance the trip takes. Taking more away from the drivers when not necessary is going to hurt them in the long run. New rideshare companies are already popping up left and right. Uber, Lyft, Via, Curb, Juno, etc. Its only a matter of time before a rideshare company (that doesn't exist yet) sees the opportunity here. By making the drivers happy and not being greedy comes to existent. $1.50 for every ride requested/completed could add up to millions of $ per day without pissing of the drivers, you know the backbone of these said companies. Drivers, Legislators, Uber and Lyft are so miserable trying to work out all these kinks to make everyone happy when in reality passengers are still needing rides and going to use a service no matter what the name is. Moral of my story is all this arguing and combating Uber, Lyft and Drivers is a waste of time. Uber and Lyft are destroying themselves and let them do it, thats what happens when you are greedy. A new rideshare company is going to come that will just make sense for all parties. Its only a matter of time. "Take care of your workers and watch your business flourish".


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

PTB said:


> Uber hasn't made a profit since inception, who cares about the bottom line.
> The real bottom line for them is being able to CASH-OUT and buy mansions and other toys.


They call it Capitalisam



RektorChris said:


> Not really. The one thing your missing is. If they keep us as independent contractors, they need to add their base fare to probably $1.50 and keep it that way no matter the length of time or distance the trip takes. Taking more away from the drivers when not necessary is going to hurt them in the long run. New rideshare companies are already popping up left and right. Uber, Lyft, Via, Curb, Juno, etc. Its only a matter of time before a rideshare company (that doesn't exist yet) sees the opportunity here. By making the drivers happy and not being greedy comes to existent. $1.50 for every ride requested/completed could add up to millions of $ per day without pissing of the drivers, you know the backbone of these said companies. Drivers, Legislators, Uber and Lyft are so miserable trying to work out all these kinks to make everyone happy when in reality passengers are still needing rides and going to use a service no matter what the name is. Moral of my story is all this arguing and combating Uber, Lyft and Drivers is a waste of time. Uber and Lyft are destroying themselves and let them do it, thats what happens when you are greedy. A new rideshare company is going to come that will just make sense for all parties. Its only a matter of time. "Take care of your workers and watch your business flourish".


I am wondering why taxi companies do not register their business the same way as Uber and Lyft did. It would be end of U/L as we know.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Rockocubs said:


> Couldn't agree more. You become an employee see your fleability disapeer.


My hilarious counter,

At orlando rates, an employee using their own car would be _*entitled*_ to about 90% more than what they are currently being paid here.

_*90%*_

Based on the mileage and the min wage...

An employee driver taking someone to the airport from disney world would be entitled to...

$3.50 in wages,
$12.29 in mileage
$2.50 in tolls

Plus another 10 minutes to get to the hotel from wherever,
$1.41

5 minutes to load luggage at the hotel and confirm the passenger,
70c

4 miles empty from wherever to the hotel,
$2.32

15 minutes sitting idle waiting for a ping,

$2.11

And when they get to the airport it's still 6:00 AM and they need to re position you somewhere to get pings, like straight back to Disney. (90% of the cabs drop at the airport and turn right back around to go back to where they loaded from)

$12.29 mileage
+ 2.50 in tolls
$3.50 in time

$3.50
$12.29
$2.50
1.41
.70
$2.32
$2.11
$12.29
$2.50
$3.50
_*$46.12

Currently, that same fare pays less than $20 on uber, about $70+ tip on taxi.*_


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

"WAHN said:


> Judging by Uber's stock (UBER) still trading below its $45 initial public offering price, investors haven't forgotten about one major risk to the ride-hailing giant's very existence.


Uuuuugh, I don't think that anticipating the risk of the classification for drivers is the reason "The most successful startup in history" is tanking it in this record setting Bull Market, more so I tend to believe its the loss of over $1 billion every quarter


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

WAHN said:


> Just my opinion, but absolutely.
> 
> They would have as few employees classified as full-time as they could get away with without impacting driver availability.
> 
> OT would also be avoided like the plague.


They will probably shut tge app down once you get to 20 hours.


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## RektorChris (Jul 8, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> My hilarious counter,
> 
> At orlando rates, an employee using their own car would be _*entitled*_ to about 90% more than what they are currently being paid here.
> 
> ...


I'm starting to think what if theres a rideshare app that is create by drivers for drivers. 
Im thinking $1/per mile with $0.10/min to suffice traffic problems and $1.50 for platform fee to make sure everything is running properly.. Minimum fares or short trips being a minimum of lets say $4-$5 It seems like all the short trips I pick up that pay $2.49 from uber or $3.08 from lyft. Looks like the riders ok with paying $5-$10 to go 1-3 miles down the road. Uber/Lyft usually take $3-$6 and give me $2.49/$3.08

On a trip that costs the passenger $50. There is literally no reason Uber/Lyft should take more from that trip than they take from a passenger that pays $5 a trip. To me that is simple greed and could be done away with. Im sure theres enough intelligent drivers both on the road and on this forum that could get this app going that is built for us. Of course theres always going to be a Joe Smoe who wants to create an app and be the next Zuckerberg with billions of $, thats where everything goes wrong.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

That is what happens to Uber’s bottom line and cash flow statement should some 3.9 million drivers be forced by state governments

Is this really true? Are there really 3.9 million Uber drivers in the U.S.? That's nearly twice the size of our military.


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## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

Uber's Guber said:


> And there will be concessions that will satisfy the corrupt foes at the legislature as well as the corrupt foes at Uber/Lyft, because both compliment each other. As for _driver _concessions, you will continue to get the short end of the shit-stick. You think CA legislators give a meaningful shit about all you minions? Answer that question as you step around homeless encampments and their piles of human feces & abandoned needles, all within a short distance from the very legislators who make policy. If CA legislators were concerned about wages, rent prices, etc, they wouldn't spend so much time figuring out how to sneak more illiterate low-skilled undocumented illegal aliens into this "sanctuary" state.
> I reiterate, If you need a full-time job with benefits there are better full-time opportunities than driving your own vehicle to shit. Uber/Lyft will never be a meaningful living, no matter how much the government "intervenes" on your behalf.


I wish this ^^^^^^^!!!!! wasn't so hard for people to understand




SEAL Team 5 said:


> That is what happens to Uber's bottom line and cash flow statement should some 3.9 million drivers be forced by state governments
> 
> Is this really true? Are there really 3.9 million Uber drivers in the U.S.? That's nearly twice the size of our military.


No, 3.9 million drivers on the platform worldwide


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

SFOspeedracer said:


> No, 3.9 million drivers on the platform worldwide


Thanks for the clarification. I was confused with the phrase "forced by state governments" after the 3.9 million.


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## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I was confused with the phrase "forced by state governments" after the 3.9 million.


No worries bro lol, they stated it on their s1 filing


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## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

OMG get a real job!


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## RektorChris (Jul 8, 2019)

Fat Man said:


> OMG get a real job!


Define "a real job" that U/L lack of


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## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

Ok since you need a explanation of a real job. 1) Steady paycheck where you know what you are going to make instead of "rolling the dice" with U/L and just hoping for best. 2) Health benefits. 3) Vacation time. You know a REAL JOB! Bro stop sniffing paint, get out of your parents basement and go get a JOB!


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

RektorChris said:


> Not really. The one thing your missing is. If they keep us as independent contractors, they need to add their base fare to probably $1.50 and keep it that way no matter the length of time or distance the trip takes. Taking more away from the drivers when not necessary is going to hurt them in the long run. New rideshare companies are already popping up left and right. Uber, Lyft, Via, Curb, Juno, etc. Its only a matter of time before a rideshare company (that doesn't exist yet) sees the opportunity here. By making the drivers happy and not being greedy comes to existent. $1.50 for every ride requested/completed could add up to millions of $ per day without pissing of the drivers, you know the backbone of these said companies. Drivers, Legislators, Uber and Lyft are so miserable trying to work out all these kinks to make everyone happy when in reality passengers are still needing rides and going to use a service no matter what the name is. Moral of my story is all this arguing and combating Uber, Lyft and Drivers is a waste of time. Uber and Lyft are destroying themselves and let them do it, thats what happens when you are greedy. A new rideshare company is going to come that will just make sense for all parties. Its only a matter of time. "Take care of your workers and watch your business flourish".


Yes. But this is all part of the free market capitalism process. We are essentially driving in the wild wild west of our industry.


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## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

No one at U/L gives 2 nickels what drivers think about ANYTHING! So just take it in the ass and be happy! OR STOP SNIVILING AND STOP DRIVING!


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

Fat Man said:


> No one at U/L gives 2 nickels what drivers think about ANYTHING! So just take it in the ass and be happy! OR STOP SNIVILING AND STOP DRIVING!


They certainly care what lawyers think. This is all part of the regulating process.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Fat Man said:


> No one at U/L gives 2 nickels what drivers think about ANYTHING! So just take it in the ass and be happy! OR STOP SNIVILING AND STOP DRIVING!


What number account is this for you?


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## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

New2This said:


> What number account is this for you?


Again no one cares what you think. Stop driving if you don't like it. U/L doesn't care about right and wrong. There is just MONEY!


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

Burn baby, burn!


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Fat Man said:


> Ok since you need a explanation of a real job. 1) Steady paycheck where you know what you are going to make instead of "rolling the dice" with U/L and just hoping for best. 2) Health benefits. 3) Vacation time. You know a REAL JOB! Bro stop sniffing paint, get out of your parents basement and go get a JOB!


Want a steady, predictable paycheck, healthcare coverage and vacation time?

*Join the military.*



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> My hilarious counter,
> 
> At orlando rates, an employee using their own car would be _*entitled*_ to about 90% more than what they are currently being paid here.
> 
> ...


A more realistic scenario would be $8.46 /hr + $2.50 tolls + $6.00 (24 miles @ 25 cents /mile) = $16.96


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Polomarko said:


> They call it Capitalisam
> 
> 
> I am wondering why taxi companies do not register their business the same way as Uber and Lyft did. It would be end of U/L as we know.


Because businesses that actually follow the law have to register the vehicles, pay for the insurance get the driver to pass the background check, get a hack license for the driver, training for that driver and maintenance for the vehicle. You can't do this without being legal in most States.

Uber has bullied its way into most markets and have destroyed any resemblance of law-abiding companies with their business model. That's why taxi companies can't do the same thing Uber is doing..... Because they are legal companies.


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

W00dbutcher said:


> Because businesses that actually follow the law have to register the vehicles, pay for the insurance get the driver to pass the background check, get a hack license for the driver, training for that driver and maintenance for the vehicle. You can't do this without being legal in most States.
> 
> Uber has bullied its way into most markets and have destroyed any resemblance of law-abiding companies with their business model. That's why taxi companies can't do the same thing Uber is doing..... Because they are legal companies.


Actually, a lot of cab companies operate the same way. Drivers lease the vehicle for a day and any profits they make over the lease is their take home pay. They are all independent contractors.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Actually, a lot of cab companies operate the same way. Drivers lease the vehicle for a day and any profits they make over the lease is their take home pay. They are all independent contractors.


Here again they are a legal company. Every Uber driver that does not have a for-hire medallion is breaking most of the laws in that state if it requires it for monetary gain.

It doesn't matter how loud you yell if you're breaking the law you're breaking the law. Uber gets away with it because there are so many drivers they don't know what to do.


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## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

PTB said:


> Uber hasn't made a profit since inception, who cares about the bottom line.
> The real bottom line for them is being able to CASH-OUT and buy mansions and other toys.


72million dollar mansion for garett .


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## Jamesmiller (May 8, 2017)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Actually, a lot of cab companies operate the same way. Drivers lease the vehicle for a day and any profits they make over the lease is their take home pay. They are all independent contractors.


Yes but those companies rates are standard across the board so their employees make a livable wage and maintenance cost. The company that owns their vehicle take half of the drivers pay. Most drivers brought fleets under the company and just hire drivers through the company while maintaining the vehicle. This industry has laws that uber dodged and cost that they passed onto drivers without compensation.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Jamesmiller said:


> Yes but those companies rates are standard across the board so their employees make a livable wage and maintenance cost. The company that owns their vehicle take half of the drivers pay. Most drivers brought fleets under the company and just hire drivers through the company while maintaining the vehicle. This industry has laws that uber dodged and cost that they passed onto drivers without compensation.


The cab company I rent from takes less than half.


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