# Have you called a pax to ask destination?



## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Have you called a pax in advance for the primary purpose of determining their destination?


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## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

I do it all the time. Done it hundreds of times only 1 guy had an issue. Idiot said "and for what reason would you like that?" Told him in a sarcastic tone "because id like to know where im going...". Canceled.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I don't do it because I don't care where they are going.


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## Director T.Y. Sanchez (Sep 21, 2019)

ANT 7 said:


> I don't do it because I don't care where they are going.


They don't got no ghetto where you live, huh?


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

Can one asks the app? or Look up the waybill?


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

Pax are still surprised to hear me say that I don't know where they're going until I start the ride.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

On Uber I have done it. On Lyft, you can touch the icon by the customer's name and you can see the destination. You have to press the "Arrive" button and be close enough. If I do not like the destination on Lyft, I cancel.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

ANT 7 said:


> I don't do it because I don't care where they are going.


You’ve been sheltered in your area. In my market there are plenty of traps. Take a ride across the River and West tolls are free but it’s going to cost you $5.25 out of your pocket to get back. That’s just one example of plenty. If you’re in the NYC Metro area it’s tri state (where you can’t pick up) and filled with rides that will cost YOU money. Most experienced drivers call ahead to find out.


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## OG ant (Oct 11, 2019)

Yes, I text them for drop off location. The majority always tell me and some just leave me on read, inwhich I cancel. My acceptance rate is at 45% and my cancelation at 12% and still always get overwhelmed with trip request. Uber is really desperate for drivers in my Toronto market.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> and for what reason would you like that?


I also had a paxhole reply once to me in a similar fashion, to which I replied: "Oh, the destination really isn't that important. Just wanted to find out if you were a jerk!" - Annnnnnnnd CANCEL. My only regret was not seeing the look on his face 😂


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Seamus said:


> You’ve been sheltered in your area. In my market there are plenty of traps. Take a ride across the River and West tolls are free but it’s going to cost you $5.25 out of your pocket to get back. That’s just one example of plenty. If you’re in the NYC Metro area it’s tri state (where you can’t pick up) and filled with rides that will cost YOU money. Most experienced drivers call ahead to find out.


I get that but none of those kind of traps exist in my market. No tolls, bridge problems, etc, pretty easy city geographically and fiscally to drive in. Lucky I guess. But, I also strategically position my vehicle in the best laid out area of the city with the appropriate demographics, etc, and don’t let the app drag me around by my nose.

There is one more big problem with this too. In my market it takes just one TNC complaint about destination discrimination and you’re deactivated by the TNC. Uber will also do it as well.


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## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

I'm finding that my texts aren't answered. Just yesterday I was fishing for a ride to the airport from my couch. Being Thanksgiving weekend I figured there would be a lot of requests there. Set destination filter to that area and was only going to accept a ride from a more affluent area within 10 min that doesn't have a history of many requests. 
I can see the general area on the UBER map request screen so I don't have to accept and then cancel.
One came in that checked all the boxes accept that it was 12 minutes away.
I texted the customer with " the destination is showing that you are going to the Airport is that correct?"
No answer. Headed out anyway. As usual I got F*##d by the filter. The ride was 1.5 miles parallel to where I wanted to be headed. 
Insult to injury the prick couple that I picked up and made $3.07 didn't tip. I KNEW I should of one'd them.


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## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

Director T.Y. Sanchez said:


> They don't got no ghetto where you live, huh?


Better watch that. A screenshot of them telling the location and you cancelling could be grounds for bye bye.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Another Uber Driver said:


> On Uber I have done it. On Lyft, you can touch the icon by the customer's name and you can see the destination. You have to press the "Arrive" button and be close enough. If I do not like the destination on Lyft, I cancel.


I am talking about calling BEFORE driving to the pickup.


kdyrpr said:


> I'm finding that my texts aren't answered. Just yesterday I was fishing for a ride to the airport from my couch. Being Thanksgiving weekend I figured there would be a lot of requests there. Set destination filter to that area and was only going to accept a ride from a more affluent area within 10 min that doesn't have a history of many requests.
> I can see the general area on the UBER map request screen so I don't have to accept and then cancel.
> One came in that checked all the boxes accept that it was 12 minutes away.
> I texted the customer with " the destination is showing that you are going to the Airport is that correct?"
> ...


I always ALWAYS call on DF hits. Uber will send me in the opposite direction for the pickup and the ride is even further in the opposite direction.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Seamus said:


> In my market there are plenty of traps. Take a ride across the River and West tolls are free but it’s going to cost you $5.25 out of your pocket to get back. That’s just one example of plenty. If you’re in the NYC Metro area it’s tri state (where you can’t pick up) and filled with rides that will cost YOU money. Most experienced drivers call ahead to find out.


...........and it _ain't_ just the tolls that can kill you. You could wind up in traffic. You can burn time dodging tolls. In some cases, you can not dodge the tolls. There are only so many ways to get across the Hudson. If you want to cross it without paying, you must go to Albany. If you are working in Jersey, New York or Connecticut, you really do need to know up front where you are going. You can really get reamed if you work in Jersey but the customer wants to go to New York. The same is the case for a driver who works in Connecticut and gets a customer who wants to go to Idlewild Airport. If you go anywhere in the suburbs from New York City, you get reamed, as well. If you want to ride a New York cab out of the City, you pay double (except for Newark Airport, which does have a premium attached to the fare, although the New York hackers say that even with the premium, it is not worth it). When I lived in the far North Bronx, occasionally a cab driver would accuse me of actually living in Yonkers. He would tell me that I was just going to walk into Yonkers to duck the double fare. They said this despite my getting out of the cab at a house on 241st. that was a block and a half from Yonkers. Had I wanted to go to Yonkers, I would have had him discharge me half a block from it, not a block and a half.

I used to get similar here when the cabs were on a Zone System. I lived half a block from the Zone Line on 22nd St. If I got a cab from the Station (all the way on the other side of the First Zone), at times, the driver would give me a boatload about playing the Zone Line. No, Jack, this is my actual address. Some of them used to try to double and triple zone me. If they kept their mouths shut and simply drove, they got a nice tip. If they handed my a boatload and tried to ream me, they got a flat.




Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> I also had a paxhole reply once to me in a similar fashion, to which I replied: "Oh, the destination really isn't that important. Just wanted to find out if you were a jerk!"



Passengers do complain when you call them names. They do not need any proof that you did it. Uber will believe them.




ANT 7 said:


> There is one more big problem with this too. In my market it takes just one TNC complaint about destination discrimination and your deactivated by the TNC. Uber will also do it as well.


...................Guilty _even when_ proved Innocent?

For a long time, that was the case if you went before the D.C. Taxicab Commission Panel on Adjudication. More than one driver had to resort to the courts to get justice.





kdyrpr said:


> One came in that checked all the boxes accept that it was 12 minutes away.
> I texted the customer with " the destination is showing that you are going to the Airport is that correct?"
> No answer. Headed out anyway. As usual I got F*##d by the filter. The ride was 1.5 miles parallel to where I wanted to be headed.


You will get jobs that get you part way to where you set the filter all the time. This is often a good way to work the filter. If you set it for some distance, you can run a series of short trips until it times out. The drawback is that the program does consider a local to be within the parameters, even if the local is heading in a direction opposite to where you have set your filter. In the Big City, this can do some real damage. You set your filter WEST and get a local that goes eight blocks EAST. You finish it. Another ping comes. You accept, cover and find out that it is going five more blocks EAST. You get a series of these and the next thing that you know, you have burned ninety minutes, you are ten miles EAST of your starting point, never mind how far from where you set the filter. At this point, your destination filter has timed OUT.




Rideshare Dude said:


> I am talking about calling BEFORE driving to the pickup.



I am and was aware of that. There is more than one reason that I responded as I did. If you will read enough topics on this forum, you will learn that customers do complain when you call to ask the destination. You can ask in a manner as full of _swayve en' duhboanurr_ all that you will; these customers will find a way to complain. The last is _yet another thing _that you will learn if you read enough topics on this forum. Something else that you will learn is that either platform will send you a nastygram about this. If they send you too many nastygrams due to what they consider too many customer complaints, things happen such as being compelled to sign up for ripoff phony "classes", waitlisting and de-activation.

If you read enough topics on this forum, you will learn that it is rate that customers are toes-to-the-kerb. If you look at the destination on Lyft, you can leave before the customer is anywhere near your car if you do not like the destination. Mind you, it will be necessary to keep this to a minimum, as LYft is far less tolerant than is Uber about cancel-after-accept. Still, it does avoid contacting the customer and creating an opportunity for said customer to complain. Lyft will act far more quickly on a customer complaint than it will on a number of cancels-after-accept.

Customers are veryt good at concocting opportunities to complain. You want to avoid actually _handing_ them such an opportunity.




Rideshare Dude said:


> I always ALWAYS call on DF hits. Uber will send me in the opposite direction for the pickup and the ride is even further in the opposite direction.


You do get that in this market on occasion; more so on Lyft than on Uber. As this is the Big City, something even a few blocks in the opposite direction is time consuming. You tend to get locals going in the opposite direction rather than a trip of any substance. What _can_ and does happen here is that you get a series of these locals that go in the opposite direction. You end up miles from not only your start point, but even more miles from your desired end point. To make it worse, your destination filter times out.

The locals in the opposite direction and being sent too far beyond your filtered destination are about as annoying, in this market, at least.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Passengers do complain when you call them names. They do not need any proof that you did it. Uber will believe them.


Never had a problem. Nor does it worry me in the least.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

beverly30 said:


> If they dont return the text they get a call, done it thousands of times. I dont drive for free per my human rights and labor laws without doing due dilligence on the contract the app sends me as the vast majority don't pay legal wages and defraud labor into working for free or illegal wages.
> 
> chow


Amen! 👍


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Never had a problem *Y-E-T*.



FIFY


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Another Uber Driver said:


> FIFY


Never read a pertinent reply from you... Y-E-T!


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Never read a pertinent reply from you... Y-E-T!


No, you never have read a reply with which you agree. Your disagreement with my replies takes nothing from their being pertinent. 

Pounding your chest all that you will. It is not a matter of _*if *_we see the topic from you entitled "De-activated Despite Fifty Thousand Trips And A Seventeen Star Rating-So Unfair"; it is merely a matter of when.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Another Uber Driver said:


> No, you never have read a reply with which you agree. Your disagreement with my replies takes nothing from their being pertinent.
> 
> Pounding your chest all that you will. It is not a matter of _*if *_we see the topic from you entitled "De-activated Despite Fifty Thousand Trips And A Seventeen Star Rating-So Unfair"; it is merely a matter of when.


Ok. You're right, I'm wrong. Are you happy now? And noooo, it's not about chest-pounding. It's just that you are too inexperienced to comment on these matters.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> you are too inexperienced to comment on these matters.





You........si

...........signed on t.....................................


You signed on to this....................


Here...................let me try and com...............................



...........wait...................here,.......................there..........................I think that I have composed myself, now............................

You signed on to this Forum less than one year past. If I am generous and give you three years driving F*ub*a*r*/Gr*yft* before you signed on to this forum, that gives you a little less than four years working ground transportation for hire.

I have been at it far longer than your four years, or so and in more than one capacity. I know this business. Trust me, Dilettante, there is close to zero that you can tell me about this business. Yes, I may shoot off my cybermouth and virtually talk a pile of [poo-poo], but when you know your [poo-poo] as I know mine, you get to do that.

Keep up the chest pounding, Dilettante. We know: you are "big and bad" and there is nothing that F*ub*a*r* or Gr*yft* can do to Big Bad Guido.


_...............stronzate................_


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Rideshare Dude said:


> Have you called a pax in advance for the primary purpose of determining their destination?


I had extracting information down to an art form.

I did almost exclusively DF trips. I was fishing for long trips using the glitch. 45+ 1.5X was my bare minimum auto-accept. I did primarily afternoon rush hour and evenings.

If not a 45+ minute notification the conversation (notice I said *conversation* not interrogation) went like this:

*Hi this is Troy, your Uber driver. Just wanted to confirm you're at 1234 Shuffle Boulevard. The app's been acting funny." They'd confirm.

"Great. How many of you are there so I know what to look for?" They'd say ___ people.

"Great. I'm in a rusty primer-colored Prius with missing hubcap and a burned-out headlight. My GPS says I'm ___ minutes away."

This next part is the money question. I've built trust and rapport with them. Again *BE CONVERSATIONAL* not like a cop interrogating a suspect:

"Just curious, where are you guys headed?"

If I liked the answer I picked them up. If I didn't they became part of the 57% 🤷‍♂️


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Keep up the chest pounding, Dilettante. We know: you are "big and bad" and there is nothing that F*ub*a*r* or Gr*yft* can do to Big Bad Guido.


But he IS big and bad. I am enjoying it. It's feisty. LOLZ


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Another Uber Driver said:


> You........si
> 
> ...........signed on t.....................................
> 
> ...


Blah blah blah.....nobody cares.....except you
FIFY


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Illini said:


> Pax are still surprised to hear me say that I don't know where they're going until I start the ride.


I love the look on their faces 
You know where we are going? NOPE 🤣🤣
Its priceless
Had a guy the other day give me bad directions and
I told him you need to tell me 2 blocks before the turn not when we are in the intersection
He says I'm sorry I'm kinda drunk
I said yea me too LOL


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Illini said:


> Pax are still surprised to hear me say that I don't know where they're going until I start the ride.


Hence my method of asking:
"I'm sorry but the app has crashed, please tell me where you are going?"
100% rate of success!


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Blah blah blah.....nobody cares.....except you


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

The only time I've ever called was when I worked the stadium after a Cowboys or Rangers game during big surges and wanted to screen out riders going 1.5 miles to their parked cars. Most of these people knew exactly why I was asking for their destination and they got angry when I did. If they got upset or wouldn't tell me I canceled. They're scam artists and a total waste of time.

I only worked about half a dozen games because I always ended up getting garbage rides even though there was an 8x surge.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Coachman said:


> I only worked about half a dozen games because I always ended up getting garbage rides even though there was an 8x surge.


If you are getting a multiplier, you want the longer trip. Now that we have Charlotte Surge, you do not want the long trip. You want the short one, as you get the same five dollars, eight dollars, two dollars or whatever on a mile and a half job that you get on a fifteen mile job.

Yes, I know, sometimes you do get more on a longer trip, but do keep in mind that when Uber introduced Charlotte Surge, it informed the drivers that they _might_ get more. On some longer trips, I have gotten more than the promised five dollars. On others, I have gotten only the promised five dollars. The latter applies to trips from D.C. to either Dulles or Friendship Airports. Those airports are a long trip out of the city (National is close, the other two _ain't_) NEVER have I gotten anything more than the promised surge amount for trips to either of those airports. I have had jobs that go a few miles past or short of those two airports and on occasion, gotten something extra, but, when they go to those airports, no.

Usually, on Charlotte Surge, I do not get anything extra, but I do get something enough times to note it.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Another Uber Driver said:


> If you are getting a multiplier, you want the longer trip. Now that we have Charlotte Surge, you do not want the long trip. You want the short one, as you get the same five dollars, eight dollars, two dollars or whatever on a mile and a half job that you get on a fifteen mile job.
> 
> Yes, I know, sometimes you do get more on a longer trip, but do keep in mind that when Uber introduced Charlotte Surge, it informed the drivers that they _might_ get more. On some longer trips, I have gotten more than the promised five dollars. On others, I have gotten only the promised five dollars. The latter applies to trips from D.C. to either Dulles or Friendship Airports. Those airports are a long trip out of the city (National is close, the other two _ain't_) NEVER have I gotten anything more than the promised surge amount for trips to either of those airports. I have had jobs that go a few miles past or short of those two airports and on occasion, gotten something extra, but, when they go to those airports, no.
> 
> Usually, on Charlotte Surge, I do not get anything extra, but I do get something enough times to note it.


For me it appears that flat surge rolls over into multiplier surge around 20 miles. I had one yesterday that pinged as $1.50 surge but I ended up getting almost $15 surge. Uber still only paid me $48 of the $90 fare.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Rideshare Dude said:


> For me it appears that flat surge rolls over into multiplier surge around 20 miles. I had one yesterday that pinged as $1.50 surge but I ended up getting almost $15 surge


I have had it give me extra for as little as five miles and had it give me nothing for forty miles. Dulles and Friendship Airports both are more than twenty miles from the city, but never have I received anything extra for going to those two airports. There seems to be no consistency to it, not in this market, at least. Mind you, I am not taking issue with what you report, marry, your figure seems reasonable. I would expect that there would be more consistency to it on jobs over twenty miles. 

In reality, for this market, I do not want anything more than ten miles and sometimes not even that. Those jobs might be allright in Nebraska, in fact, you might have to run more of them out there, unless you want only half the number of customers that you currently carry daily. Here, the long jobs are time consuming, thus running from only marginally profitable to outright money losers, especially when you get dragged far from surge zones.

Still, that twenty mile figure does seem reasonable, so you raise a point that is worth considering.







Rideshare Dude said:


> still only paid me $48 of the $90 fare.


That seems about right for your average Uber, these days; fifty-three/forty seven in the driver's favour. My observation of late has been that the driver/Uber split is usually fifty whatever/forty whatever in favour of the driver. Despite that, I have seen as much as twenty/eighty in Uber's favour and, conversely, outright losses to Uber on trips. @New2This is an accomplished operator who causes more than a few losses to Uber on jobs.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I have had it give me extra for as little as five miles and had it give me nothing for forty miles. Dulles and Friendship Airports both are more than twenty miles from the city, but never have I received anything extra for going to those two airports. There seems to be no consistency to it, not in this market, at least. Mind you, I am not taking issue with what you report, marry, your figure seems reasonable. I would expect that there would be more consistency to it on jobs over twenty miles.
> 
> In reality, for this market, I do not want anything more than ten miles and sometimes not even that. Those jobs might be allright in Nebraska, in fact, you might have to run more of them out there, unless you want only half the number of customers that you currently carry daily. Here, the long jobs are time consuming, thus running from only marginally profitable to outright money losers, especially when you get dragged far from surge zones.
> 
> ...


It also depends on whether the surge is on the driver side or the passenger side. If I am in a surge area and I get a ping from outside the surge area it is not going to multiply. But if I am not in a surge area and I get a ping from within a surge area it will multiply at around 20 miles.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Rideshare Dude said:


> It also depends on whether the surge is on the driver side or the passenger side. If I am in a surge area and I get a ping from outside the surge area it is not going to multiply. But if I am not in a surge area and I get a ping from within a surge area it will multiply at around 20 miles.


It has nothing to do with mileage. It's all about what the rider's paying.

If they pay Surge, you get it adjusted upwards. If not, you don't. 

I had numerous shorties that were $2-$3 Surge that paid out upwards of $10. I was pleasantly surprised at payouts.

Riders were still getting ****ed like a Kardashian in a locker room but at least I got some of it.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

New2This said:


> It has nothing to do with mileage. It's all about what the rider's paying.
> 
> If they pay Surge, you get it adjusted upwards. If not, you don't.
> 
> ...


That’s pretty much what I just said.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Rideshare Dude said:


> That’s pretty much what I just said.


Except you twice used 20 miles as the threshold for it paying more:



Rideshare Dude said:


> For me it appears that flat surge rolls over into multiplier surge around 20 miles.





Rideshare Dude said:


> But if I am not in a surge area and I get a ping from within a surge area it will multiply at around 20 miles.


Not trying to argue with you. 

It may be that threshold in your market. My old market it wasn't and I have yet to do an Uber in my new market.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

In my market, if the PAX pays surge, you get an adjustment, if, the result is you are not getting a substantial portion of the fare. If you have a sticky and the pax is not paying surge, or not paying very much surge, then they leave it as is +2.00 or +10.00 whatever was stuck to you.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Ted Fink said:


> In my market, if the PAX pays surge, you get an adjustment, if, the result is you are not getting a substantial portion of the fare. If you have a sticky and the pax is not paying surge, or not paying very much surge, then they leave it as is +2.00 or +10.00 whatever was stuck to you.


That is what I was saying. Probably the same in every market.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

New2This said:


> I had extracting information down to an art form.
> 
> I did almost exclusively DF trips. I was fishing for long trips using the glitch. 45+ 1.5X was my bare minimum auto-accept. I did primarily afternoon rush hour and evenings.
> 
> ...


Way too complicated. I usually open with something like I’m five minutes away are you ready to go or I am 10 minutes away is that OK? Then I make it sound like an afterthought when I ask where are you going?


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## Ride Share Roy (Sep 28, 2021)

We have to pick up abandoned pax from Rideshare Dude all the time in Omaha....usually they are mad as Hell, but we just make sure they report this to Uber. Thankfully, as of today, sounds like this is ending soon. Uber Cracking Down On Driver Cancellations - YouTube


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Ride Share Roy said:


> We have to pick up abandoned pax from Rideshare Dude all the time in Omaha....usually they are mad as Hell, but we just make sure they report this to Uber. Thankfully, as of today, sounds like this is ending soon. Uber Cracking Down On Driver Cancellations - YouTube


Abandoned? LOL! Don’t be such a drama queen. It’s 30 seconds to reassign another driver. Reporting? LOL! Good luck waiting on the phone for 30 minutes and getting Rohit at Uber support to understand what you want to report. Crackdown? LOL! According to this policy they would have to punish more than half of their drivers. That is just going to make it take longer for passengers to get rides. They would be shooting themselves in the foot.

AND

Depending on what they do it might become easier to prove in court that drivers are Under the direction and control of Uber, therefore actually employees and not independent contractors.

BTW, thanks for taking those two dollar rides off my hand while I continue making big money. I have said for years that if I have to do two dollar rides all day I won’t be doing this anymore.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Ride Share Roy said:


> We have to pick up abandoned pax from Rideshare Dude all the time in Omaha....usually they are mad as Hell, but we just make sure they report this to Uber. Thankfully, as of today, sounds like this is ending soon. Uber Cracking Down On Driver Cancellations - YouTube


That's from England.

I'll keep doing what works for me here in the U.S.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

yoda99 said:


> View attachment 630578
> 
> support states you can call but to ask them to cancel


Save that! They give some drivers a hard time about asking. 

I have a message from Lyft telling me that if I don't want to take non xl trips, I should just ignore the regular Lyft pings. Then they send me email about how I'm letting the community down so I ignore more. Can either of these companies ever learn to deal straight off the top of the deck?


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Save that! They give some drivers a hard time about asking.
> 
> I have a message from Lyft telling me that if I don't want to take non xl trips, I should just ignore the regular Lyft pings. Then they send me email about how I'm letting the community down so I ignore more. Can either of these companies ever learn to deal straight off the top of the deck?


Lyft has mastered passive-aggressive messaging to make you think deactivation will happen for things they can’t legally deactivate you for.


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## mjhawk (May 13, 2016)

I’ve done it because I start out in a small town and regularly get early morning requests that are 20-30 minutes to pick up. I have called and asked because I’m coming from so far away, hoping they are heading to the airport or get me to a busier area.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Uber deactivated hundreds of LAX drivers for calling to ask the customer what their destination was and then cancelling if it was a short trip. Cherry picking is what that is called and Uber is not amused by it.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Uber deactivated hundreds of LAX drivers for calling to ask the customer what their destination was and then cancelling if it was a short trip. Cherry picking is what that is called and Uber is not amused by it.


Proof?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

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## ConkeyCrack (Nov 19, 2019)

I would only call if it was my last trip. If they weren't heading the same general direction as my home, I would cancel. The DF is horrible by the way it would never send me towards my destination


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

ConkeyCrack said:


> I would only call if it was my last trip. If they weren't heading the same general direction as my home, I would cancel. The DF is horrible by the way it would never send me towards my destination


Yes I always call on DF hits because Uber has been known to send me 20 minutes out-of-the-way for a pick up or give me a drop off 20 minutes in the opposite direction. DF is pretty much useless here.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Rideshare Dude said:


> Proof?


Just my memory of the events. I am sure you can get verification of what happened in the LA forum. It was a big deal.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Uber deactivated hundreds of LAX drivers for calling to ask the customer what their destination was and then cancelling if it was a short trip. Cherry picking is what that is called and Uber is not amused by it.





Rideshare Dude said:


> Proof?





SpinalCabbage said:


> Just my memory of the events. I am sure you can get verification of what happened in the LA forum. It was a big deal.


Pretty sure it was specifically calling and canceling on airport trips.

Uber takes airport customers more seriously than the drunk patrol.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

New2This said:


> Pretty sure it was specifically calling and canceling on airport trips.
> 
> Uber takes airport customers more seriously than the drunk patrol.


Yes, it was specifically calling and canceling on airport trips.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Yes, it was specifically calling and canceling on airport trips.


That’s a given. Uber has little tolerance for canceling at the airport.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I have had it give me extra for as little as five miles and had it give me nothing for forty miles. Dulles and Friendship Airports both are more than twenty miles from the city, but never have I received anything extra for going to those two airports. There seems to be no consistency to it, not in this market, at least. Mind you, I am not taking issue with what you report, marry, your figure seems reasonable. I would expect that there would be more consistency to it on jobs over twenty miles.
> 
> In reality, for this market, I do not want anything more than ten miles and sometimes not even that. Those jobs might be allright in Nebraska, in fact, you might have to run more of them out there, unless you want only half the number of customers that you currently carry daily. Here, the long jobs are time consuming, thus running from only marginally profitable to outright money losers, especially when you get dragged far from surge zones.
> 
> ...


Do you know if the govt requires TNCs to have "list prices" or "default prices" that pax are charged in the absence of any type of surge or promotion?

Uber and Lyft have always had "list prices" or "default prices" that were charged to pax in the absence of any kind of "surge". Drivers' "rate cards" had always been based on a percentage (75% or 80%) of these list prices, even after Upfront Pricing was introduced.

If the list prices went up 10%, drivers would get a 10% pay increase and if they went down 10%, drivers would get a 10% pay cut.

The reason I'm asking is that very very few drivers (I found out by accident) are aware that in many if not most markets (including DC), Uber and Lyft sneakily raised their "list" prices sometime last year but kept driver pay rates the SAME.

The result is that for the first time ever, drivers are being paid LESS than 75% of the fare on base rate rides (excluding the Book Fee). In DC, drivers are now paid only around 68% of list prices.

It's secret pay cut that hardly anyone knows about.

I should clarify that for Florida and a few other markets, this isn't the "first time ever". In 2018, Uber and Lyft did this very thing to Florida. I'm pretty sure that Uber and Lyft have done it at least one more time in Florida since 2018. If that's the case, Florida drivers are probably being paid only around 63% of the fare on base rate rides.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Do you know if the govt requires TNCs to have "list prices" or "default prices" that pax are charged in the absence of any type of surge or promotion?
> 
> Uber and Lyft have always had "list prices" or "default prices" that were charged to pax in the absence of any kind of "surge". Drivers' "rate cards" had always been based on a percentage (75% or 80%) of these list prices, even after Upfront Pricing was introduced.
> 
> ...


On the short fares Uber and Lyft take 60% of the fares. This is nothing but greed, so one should not be driving at base rates unless its on destination filter.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Do you know if the govt requires TNCs to have "list prices" or "default prices" that pax are charged in the absence of any type of surge or promotion?
> 
> Uber and Lyft have always had "list prices" or "default prices" that were charged to pax in the absence of any kind of "surge". Drivers' "rate cards" had always been based on a percentage (75% or 80%) of these list prices, even after Upfront Pricing was introduced.
> 
> ...


Uber and Lyft separated driver pay from passenger fare several years ago. My rate card lists pay per mile and per minute. Uber keeps 30% to 90% of the fare.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rideshare Dude said:


> Uber and Lyft separated driver pay from passenger fare several years ago. My rate card lists pay per mile and per minute. Uber keeps 30% to 90% of the fare.



SURGED and DISCOUNTED rides were separated in 2016. Base rate rides were not.

Your rate card was based on list prices that pax were charged in the absence of surges or discounts.

Uber themselves states that Upfront Prices may be VOIDED and pax charged default mile and minutes if the driver changes the destination or veers "significantly" from the pre-arranged route. In other words, pax may be charged LIST PRICE.

List prices were increased in 2020 but the drivers' pay was not. As I said in my previous post, for most markets, this is the first time it's happened.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> SURGED and DISCOUNTED rides were separated in 2016. Base rate rides were not.
> 
> Your rate card was based on list prices that pax were charged in the absence of surges or discounts.
> 
> ...


I am just curious what the actual per-mile and per-minute fare is for drivers in Arlington? Based on the published prices it should be $0.65 per mile and $0.25 per minute for newer drivers and $0.70 per mile and $0.26 minute for older drivers.

I came up with these numbers using Uber's estimator and deducting 20% from the published prices for older drivers and 25% for newer drivers.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SpinalCabbage said:


> I am just curious what the actual per-mile and per-minute fare is for drivers in Arlington? Based on the published prices it should be $0.65 per mile and $0.25 per minute for newer drivers and $0.70 per mile and $0.26 minute for older drivers.
> 
> I came up with these numbers using Uber's estimator and deducting 20% from the published prices for older drivers and 25% for newer drivers.


Because Uber and Lyft raised their list prices in 2020 while keeping driver pay rates the same, the 75/25 and 80/20 formulas no longer work. Thus, your pay estimates are high.

The actual pay rates are 60 cents per mile and 22.5 cents per minute for the newer drivers and 64 cents per mile and 24 cents per minute for the old timers.

The driver pay rates are the same as they were when I quit rideshare in 2019 while the list prices have gone up.

I call this a "backdoor pay cut".

Check the numbers for your market and you'll probably discover that you too have been hit with a backdoor pay cut.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> SURGED and DISCOUNTED rides were separated in 2016. Base rate rides were not.
> 
> Your rate card was based on list prices that pax were charged in the absence of surges or discounts.
> 
> ...


In my market EVERY ride is paid per mile and per minute. Surge is added as a flat dollar amount. There is no percentage of fare calculation.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Here is my fare card:










Here is a estimate for a minimum fare trip in my area:










The customer is charged $1.01 per mile and $0.15 per minute.
I am paid 80% of the $1.01 per mile and 80% of the $0.15 per minute.

In this case the customer is charged a total of $10.80 for the trip and I am paid $3.20 for the trip because it is a minimum fare trip.

It isn't a backdoor pay cut. It is right out there in the open. What changed is that instead of being paid 80% (for older drivers) of the fare (minus the service fee) we are being paid 80% of the posted per-mile and per-minute fare. I'm not disputing a single thing you're saying. I am just trying to illustrate my point.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rideshare Dude said:


> In my market EVERY ride is paid per mile and per minute. Surge is added as a flat dollar amount. There is no percentage of fare calculation.


 I'm talking about BASE RATE rides, NOT surge and NOT discounted rides.

In other words, routine, off-peak rides that are given when business is slow and drivers are plentiful. For those type of rides (certainly before the pandemic) pax were almost always charged whatever the list prices were in their market. And drivers would receive 75% or 80% of the fare (excluding the Booking Fee) for those rides. With the exception of Florida and a few other markets, that practice continued until last year.

Now, because Uber raised the list prices, those very same rides under the very same conditions will cost the pax more money but the drivers will be paid the same as they were in 2019. Thus, the drivers' percentage of the fare, which previously was 75 or 80% is now around 68-73% for the very same rides.

Think it thru and you'll get it.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Here is my fare card:
> 
> View attachment 632386
> 
> ...


You'll have to repost the screenshots because the print is way too small to be legible.

Without all the numbers I can't comment on your market except to say that if Uber did to your market what they did to mine and many other markets it's a pay cut or what I call a backdoor pay cut.

I call it backdoor because it was done in sneaky secrecy. Uber and Lyft never told the drivers that their percent of the fare was being reduced. And because the rate numbers as opposed to the percentages didn't change, drivers would think nothing changed.

It's sleazy as hell.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> I'm talking about BASE RATE rides, NOT surge and NOT discounted rides.
> 
> In other words, routine, off-peak rides that are given when business is slow and drivers are plentiful. For those type of rides (certainly before the pandemic) pax were almost always charged whatever the list prices were in their market. And drivers would receive 75% or 80% of the fare (excluding the Booking Fee) for those rides. With the exception of Florida and a few other markets, that practice continued until last year.
> 
> ...


Nothing to think through. Here is an example. Uber took more than 50%


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> You'll have to repost the screenshots because the print is way too small to be legible.
> 
> Without all the numbers I can't comment on your market except to say that if Uber did to your market what they did to mine and many other markets it's a pay cut or what I call a backdoor pay cut.
> 
> ...


Uber told us all what they were doing. We all agreed to it when we accepted the new contract when we were logging into the app and didn't bother reading what we were agreeing with.

Okay... here are my numbers:

My customers are charged $1.01 per mile and $0.15 per minute. 
I am paid $0.808 per mile and $0.12 per minute.

$0.808 is 80% of $1.01.
$0.12 is 80% of $0.15.

I am therefore paid 80% of the per-mile and per-minute rate charged to the passengers. However, I am not being paid 80% of the total fare that the passenger gets charged.

In the trip I used above the total fare was $10.80. $2.14 of that total is the "Marketplace Fee" which we have never gotten a portion of no matter what they have called the fee.

So, $10.80 - $2.14 = $8.66. I should be getting 80% of that $8.66, but I am being paid $3.20 which is only 37% of $8.66. I should receive $6.93 of the $8.66.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Do you know if the govt requires TNCs to have "list prices" or "default prices" that pax are charged in the absence of any type of surge or promotion?


Current District of Columbia regulations require that a TNC either:

1. Post its rates on its website.......
2. Give the customer an up-front fare quote.

I f the TNC gives an up front fare quote, it need not post its rates.





Nats121 said:


> few drivers (I found out by accident) are aware that in many if not most markets (including DC), Uber and Lyft sneakily raised their "list" prices sometime last year but kept driver pay rates the SAME.


It actually has been discussed on this Forum. Both F*ub*a*r *and Gr*yft* raised the rates charged to the customer, but did not give the drivers anything. No one ever discussed it on the Washington Boards, but, it has been discussed elsewhere on this forum.

Both F*ub*a*r* and Gr*yft* have made it clear that except for Seattle and New York, the _only_ adjustment to drivers' pay rates ever, will be DOWN.




Nats121 said:


> I call this a "backdoor pay cut".


That is not a bad name for it.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rideshare Dude said:


> Nothing to think through. Here is an example. Uber took more than 50%
> View attachment 632391


I've repeatedly said that Booking Fees are excluded. Booking Fees are a source of free money that Uber carved out for themselves and have never been part of the "75% / 80%" the drivers are paid.

Because you didn't provide enough info I have no idea if that ride is a base rate ride or if it has some kind of small surge charge added to it. 

In order for me to know if your market has been hit with the pay cut I have to know what the base or "list" pax rates are for your market as well as the drivers pay rates. Only then can I know whether or not your market has had the pay cut.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> It actually has been discussed on this Forum. Both F*ub*a*r *and Gr*yft* raised the rates charged to the customer, but did not give the drivers anything. No one ever discussed it on the Washington Boards, but, it has been discussed elsewhere on this forum.


That was me who attempted without much success to introduce this topic months ago.

I received a lot of flak in the form of being accused of dragging up "old news". Almost every responder thought I was rehashing the "decoupling" that took place with the creation of Upfront Pricing. Few if any posters seemed to get it and the ones who claimed to get it said they didn't give a shit. And those very same folks who said they didn't give a shit also claimed to be smart "business owners". I figured you'd get it and you do.

This is the first time that drivers were cut out of an increase in the list prices. Previously, whenever the list prices were raised such as 2017, the drivers pay rate increased by the same amount. Of course the reverse was also true. When Uber cut the pax list mileage price in 2018, the drivers mileage rate fell from 81 cents per mile to 60 cents per mile.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Both F*ub*a*r* and Gr*yft* have made it clear that except for Seattle and New York, the _only_ adjustment to drivers' pay rates ever, will be DOWN.


I don't like NYC's system because it limits the number of drivers at any given time, which is a bad policy. If Seattle's smart they'll continue to do what they're doing now, which is requiring decent pay rates without limiting the number of drivers.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Current District of Columbia regulations require that a TNC either:
> 
> 1. Post its rates on its website.......
> 2. Give the customer an up-front fare quote.
> ...


The either/or part is a little surprising given the fact that Uber includes BOTH the Upfront price and its "base rates" in price quotes. Suffice to say Uber's never been known as an organization that will ever voluntarily disclose anything unless they feel it's in their own best interests.

This makes me think that Virginia and/or Maryland may have stricter disclosure laws which would force Uber to be more transparent in their pricing than DC requires due to the fact that Metro DC is treated as a single market by Uber.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Uber told us all what they were doing. We all agreed to it when we accepted the new contract when we were logging into the app and didn't bother reading what we were agreeing with.


Let's be clear on this contract stuff. The contract says NOTHING about various pay models. It simply states that drivers will be paid a fare for each trip, period. This extremely broad clause encompasses pretty much anything and everything Uber wishes to do to our pay.

The "agree" part is if we don't "sign" whatever addendum they concoct we'll never be allowed to log in again, aka we'll be fired. This is how the gig companies define drivers being "their own bosses". Doordash's newest recruitment ads say "You're the boss". Uber used that same line in their ads months ago.




SpinalCabbage said:


> Okay... here are my numbers:
> 
> My customers are charged $1.01 per mile and $0.15 per minute.
> I am paid $0.808 per mile and $0.12 per minute.
> ...


As I said in previous posts, the backdoor pay cut may not have been implemented in all markets. Yours is one that hasn't been cut... at least for now.

I've said repeatedly that any Booking or other fees are and always have been excluded from the 75/80 calculation.


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## Sam D (May 15, 2017)

Rideshare Dude said:


> Have you called a pax in advance for the primary purpose of determining their destination?


i have when i had some inportant family stuff going on i explained i cant see the destination and had sonewhete to go. he was cool with but i didnt need to cancel cuz i would be back to my family event in time… just he had no idea we counldt see our destination. so he talked about that was crazy


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Sam D said:


> i have when i had some inportant family stuff going on i explained i cant see the destination and had sonewhete to go. he was cool with but i didnt need to cancel cuz i would be back to my family event in time… just he had no idea we counldt see our destination. so he talked about that was crazy


Not knowing the destinations before accepting ride requests has cost drivers BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in lost earnings over the years. It's allowed Uber and Lyft to keep driver pay rates artificially low.

The big winners have been Uber, Lyft, and the pax while the big losers have been the drivers.


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## rembrandt (Jul 3, 2016)

I used to ask that simply out of curiosity when calling a pax but I never cancelled any ride based on destinations when I used to drive.


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