# theres only 1 realistic way to stop the rate cuts



## SmokeyJonez (Jan 9, 2016)

for everyone who has been talking about going to your local Uber office to complain about the rates cuts, save your time and money, ITS POINTLESS TO COMPLAIN AT YOUR LOCAL UBER OFFICE ABOUT THE RATE CUTS..

the local offices and the local employees have ZERO control over the price in their market.. they make recommendations, but in the end, CORPORATE HQ DECIDES ON THE PRICE! Uber uses an algorithm on a CPU to determine the price in each market.. i had a talk with an ops manager in my market and before the last rate cuts, he told me "we recommended to corporate that (my area) could support the current price" Corporate didnt care, they lowered the price 30% anyways.. 

So if you want to complain about the price, go on twitter, facebook or emil corporate directly.. make sure your post goes directly to the CEO or the investors of the company.. if enough people complain, they will change the rates back.. if enough drivers monitor the surge and only drive during the surge, theyll change the rates.. Uber has lowered and then went back and raise the rates in certain markets..

THE DRIVERS HAVE THE POWER, USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE!!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

SmokeyJonez said:


> for everyone who has been talking about going to your local Uber office to complain about the rates cuts, save your time and money, ITS POINTLESS TO COMPLAIN AT YOUR LOCAL UBER OFFICE ABOUT THE RATE CUTS..
> 
> the local offices and the local employees have ZERO control over the price in their market.. they make recommendations, but in the end, CORPORATE HQ DECIDES ON THE PRICE! Uber uses an algorithm on a CPU to determine the price in each market.. i had a talk with an ops manager in my market and before the last rate cuts, he told me "we recommended to corporate that (my area) could support the current price" Corporate didnt care, they lowered the price 30% anyways..
> 
> ...


If more riders use the service with the lower fares -
and there are enough drivers in a market to meet that demand -
then no amount of driver complaints will have any effect whatsoever on the fares.

Uber's fares are based on supply & demand, the algorithm you refer to.
*The ONLY way fares will increase is if there are not enough drivers to meet demand*.

I'm not saying 'don't complain'...
just sayin': *actions speak louder than words*.


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## djfx (Jan 1, 2016)

Yeah I didn't agree to the new Partner terms and most likely won't be driving at the new rates. Unless I see surges 40% more, I'm not driving for 40% less... It's funny though that the fee Uber gets goes up recently, while the money were getting goes down... How convenient...


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> If more riders use the service with the lower fares -
> and there are enough drivers in a market to meet that demand -
> then no amount of driver complaints will have any effect whatsoever on the fares.
> 
> ...


I like Michael. He has business sense.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

djfx said:


> Yeah I didn't agree to the new Partner terms and most likely won't be driving at the new rates. Unless I see surges 40% more, I'm not driving for 40% less... It's funny though that the fee Uber gets goes up recently, while the money were getting goes down... How convenient...


Good. Keep your word and show it in your action. If enough drivers exercise their business sense, Uber will bring the rate back up.

My best guesstimate is, Uber's profit-maximizing, market equilibrium fare price is about half way between the previous fare rate and today's new rate.

Try to increase more hours and/or effort in your other pursuits--your FT job, other PT job(s), classes and formal education, friends and family, continuous informal self-education, R&R, vacations, physical exercise, spiritual activities, charity work, etc. Not saying multiply your hours in this. But on the margins, little increases. That's how economics works--at the margin. The "marginal increase" or "marginal decrease" are really what get TNCs' algorithm's attention. There are no powerful bosses here. Travis is like Spock or Data, except the small signs of caring about drivers like not cutting fares before Christmas (and spoiling our holidays), TNCs are rational businesses, they basically rely on the data, just trying to maximize their profits. They are not saints, they are not evil. They are just trying to maximize their profits. The "marginal increase" and the "marginal decrease" are what change their decisions. Along with the nation's top IT (former) professors, some of the nation's top economists (also former professors) are now working in various Silicon Valley behemoths. These tech giants do two things very well--exploiting their technological prowess and being very disciplined in sticking to the forces of supply and demand. You can bet on it.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Just stop driving.


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## HiFareLoRate (Sep 14, 2015)

Easier said than done, majority of drivers are half brains dead.

They think Uber is on their side when attempting to read verbatim.


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## ndndr (Nov 18, 2015)

Start working for LYFT and get that 1.10/ mile plus tips...that's the best way to teach uber.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Most drivers who "hate" (so to speak) and complain about Uber here think Uber is out to screw them. Most other drivers think Uber is just trying to make as much profits as it can. Now, which drivers on UP actually think Uber is on their side?


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

I still kind of think uber is doing this to force us to rally so that they xan raise the rates and point thier fingers at us and say "the drivers demanded this, we wanted lower rates." Therby keeping thier public image spotless...after they can not screw us any more..like right now...the only other option is to screw the customers.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

ndndr said:


> Start working for LYFT and get that 1.10/ mile plus tips...that's the best way to teach uber.


The beauty of a duopoly, versus a monopoly.

In some regional markets in the country, during certain summer and Super Bowl weeks of fierce promo wars, the (consumer) carbonated beverage market actually see both the (essentially, as they command 90% or more of the market) duopoly players selling below their production costs. In many cities, Lyft has also been doing that (losing money to compete). Uber's income vs loss is more debatable.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

cleansafepolite said:


> I still kind of think uber is doing this to force us to rally so that they xan raise the rates and point thier fingers at us and say "the drivers demanded this, we wanted lower rates." Therby keeping thier public image spotless...after they can not screw us any more..like right now...the only other option is to screw the customers.


Yes, I think for many cities, eventually the rate will settle somewhere between the previous and the current new fare rates.

Edit: About half way between the previous (last week's) fare rate and the new (today's) fare rate, in the Cleveland's market.


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## cleansafepolite (Dec 14, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> Yes, I think for many cities, eventually the rate will settle somewhere between the previous and the current new fare rates.


I think the rates will go higher than ever..ubers only goal is more...more money. Ha..no headlines for us..but let uber raise the rates...media explosion. The only way to circumvent that explosion is with a scapegoat, us the driver who "simply wont drive for less" the more protest and outcry from us the easier it will be for uber to prove its case. Lets hurry it along Im going broke waiting for the theatrics to play out.


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## djfx (Jan 1, 2016)

cleansafepolite said:


> I think the rates will go higher than ever..ubers only goal is more...more money. Ha..no headlines for us..but let uber raise the rates...media explosion. The only way to circumvent that explosion is with a scapegoat, us the driver who "simply wont drive for less" the more protest and outcry from us the easier it will be for uber to prove its case. Lets hurry it along Im going broke waiting for the theatrics to play out.


Either way... Uber wins


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## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

if you're online while there is no surge you are stupid


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

uber strike said:


> if you're online while there is no surge you are stupid


Surge? What, I prithee tell, is a "surge"?


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## Jose_A (Jul 5, 2015)

From the way I see it, uber's #1 priority isn't profits at this point; their #1 priority is becoming universal. They seem to care more about replacing public transportation, cabs, and eventually private car ownership. If this costs them a lot in potential profit for now, so be it.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

Jose_A said:


> From the way I see it, uber's #1 priority isn't profits at this point; their #1 priority is becoming universal. They seem to care more about replacing public transportation, cabs, and eventually private car ownership. If this costs them a lot in potential profit for now, so be it.


Yes, Uber wants to be "universal" -- opening new markets in new cities and new countries.

And yes, Uber wants to lure patrons of the traditional public transit modes like buses, subways, even commuter trains, etc. One of the most effective ways to do that is through competitive (lower) fares.

In opening new markets, they are willing to lose tons of money to establish a market. But once they get a "critical mass" built up, IMHO usually (but not in all cities) they will try to maximize fare haul from that particular market for two major reasons--cash flow, and to show/convince their VC and other backers that their model can continue to work beyond that point.


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## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Surge? What, I prithee tell, is a "surge"?


there's no more surge because of drivers. Uber is not meant to create Surge. The drivers are the ones that are to create Surge. If drivers accept to drive at these rates then there's no need for surge. If we all go offline believe me it will surge.


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## ClevelandUberRider (Nov 28, 2015)

uber strike said:


> there's no more surge because of drivers. Uber is not meant to create Surge. The drivers are the ones that are to create Surge. If drivers accept to drive at these rates then there's no need for surge. If we all go offline believe me it will surge.


Agreed.

IMHO Uber's surge algorithm is "predictive" in nature. Two most important variables used are the number of riders' apps and the number of drivers' apps that have been turned on. As in all predictive models, it improves its predictive power (accuracy) by learning from past data showing their past inaccuracies. For example, in the early days, Travis might have told his algorithm coders, I think 90% of riders with their apps on will drop the pin if there is no search, 70% will still do so if we set surge up to 2.0, 50% of riders still hailing from 2.0 to 3.0 surges, and so on and so forth. But then actual data shows that (for example) the bar crowd is so cheap that while 90% still hail at zero surge, it quickly drop to 25% dropping the pin up to 2.0 surge, 15% will pin between 2.0 to 3.0 surges, and so on, and almost zero percent pin beyond 4.0 surge. With this city's example of the bar crowd's cheap behavior of "turn app on, if surge, go back in and buy a couple of more drinks with the surge money, then wait out the surge", Uber's programmers will change their surge algorithm based on the data showing such newly-observed rider behavior. In this particular example, the surge for that area during that time will be smaller and less frequent, with surges of 4.0 and above almost history.

For example, while previously if that area saw 5 driver-apps and 30 rider-apps there would be a 3.0 surge. After the change in codes, the same numbers of respective apps on may only bring a surge of only 2.0 or even none at all. Bottom line, the more "wait out the surge" rides we have (the rideshare equivalents of "window shoppers"), the less surge there will be. Travis is not being mean to drivers here, nor is it likely they coded something in there to cheat drivers out of surges. Surge algorithm is coded in such a way so as to reflect the willingness of riders to pay as accurately as possible.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

SmokeyJonez said:


> for everyone who has been talking about going to your local Uber office to complain about the rates cuts, save your time and money, ITS POINTLESS TO COMPLAIN AT YOUR LOCAL UBER OFFICE ABOUT THE RATE CUTS..
> 
> the local offices and the local employees have ZERO control over the price in their market.. they make recommendations, but in the end, CORPORATE HQ DECIDES ON THE PRICE! Uber uses an algorithm on a CPU to determine the price in each market.. i had a talk with an ops manager in my market and before the last rate cuts, he told me "we recommended to corporate that (my area) could support the current price" Corporate didnt care, they lowered the price 30% anyways..
> 
> ...


No.

The pax have the power.

Whay we have and have yet to use is the power to piss the pax off which, if nationwide and significant, will force them to our side and demand to Uber fix it or they will go on to the next rideshare app.

We'be emailed corporate before and before that and we already know it DOES NOT CARE. Why would anyone even waste a thought or fantasy thinking this time, maybe if I pray hard enough, this will be the time Mr. Travis listens....he won't. We know this.

But he sure as heck will hear the pax and he sure as heck will hear less cha-Ching.

See my thread in advocacy forum...please.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

ClevelandUberRider said:


> I like Michael. He has business sense.


Yes, but he doesn't include the power of the pax in this scenario and it is there waiting for us. See thread under advocacy I started...


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## SmokeyJonez (Jan 9, 2016)

Cou-ber said:


> No.
> 
> The pax have the power.
> 
> ...


no the passengers do NOT have the power at all.. 
it doesnt matter if you have a million customers if you have no one to fill the demand..

you didnt read what i wrote.. i said NOTHING about emailing corporate.. i said to send messages directly to the CEO..


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

SmokeyJonez said:


> no the passengers do NOT have the power at all..
> it doesnt matter if you have a million customers if you have no one to fill the demand..
> 
> you didnt read what i wrote.. i said NOTHING about emailing corporate.. i said to send messages directly to the CEO..


Dude, he IS corporate.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

SmokeyJonez said:


> no the passengers do NOT have the power at all..
> it doesnt matter if you have a million customers if you have no one to fill the demand..
> 
> you didnt read what i wrote.. i said NOTHING about emailing corporate.. i said to send messages directly to the CEO..


Yes, I did read. Do not presume to know what I do.

Duh. We don't offer rides. No supply. But also pull in the pax by upsetting them and causing them fees AND no supply and they become the voice for us whom we already know Uber doesn't listen to. Or corporate. Or Travis. Or who flipping ever.

Are you reading and getting my posts?


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## SmokeyJonez (Jan 9, 2016)

Cou-ber said:


> Yes, I did read. Do not presume to know what I do.
> 
> Duh. We don't offer rides. No supply. But also pull in the pax by upsetting them and causing them fees AND no supply and they become the voice for us whom we already know Uber doesn't listen to. Or corporate. Or Travis. Or who flipping ever.
> 
> Are you reading and getting my posts?


im not presuming to know what you do.. im presuming i know more than you do

upsetting the riders in only gonna get you fired before any changes happen.. pissing off any kind of customer is the wrong way to do business, even if you are pissed off at the company


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## StarMckenzi UBER (Jan 8, 2016)

ndndr said:


> Start working for LYFT and get that 1.10/ mile plus tips...that's the best way to teach uber.


That's my plan.....


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## Yarddude11 (May 12, 2015)

Simon said:


> Just stop driving.


Simple.
Dont use Uber.
Simple.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

SmokeyJonez said:


> im not presuming to know what you do.. im presuming i know more than you do
> 
> upsetting the riders in only gonna get you fired before any changes happen.. pissing off any kind of customer is the wrong way to do business, even if you are pissed off at the company


They can't fire me because I've already quit. I'm not driving 50% more to make what was 40% of the minimum I need to get by.

And that's the whole idea. Piss off the clients so they demand Uber do better and get drivers in check.

If you're so smart why are you nt grasping this concept?


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

StarMckenzi UBER said:


> That's my plan.....


Lyft isn't in Houston.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

SmokeyJonez said:


> im not presuming to know what you do.. im presuming i know more than you do
> 
> upsetting the riders in only gonna get you fired before any changes happen.. pissing off any kind of customer is the wrong way to do business, even if you are pissed off at the company


Changes aren't going to happen...I don't think you know as much as you think...


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## SmokeyJonez (Jan 9, 2016)

Cou-ber said:


> They can't fire me because I've already quit. I'm not driving 50% more to make what was 40% of the minimum I need to get by.
> 
> And that's the whole idea. Piss off the clients so they demand Uber do better and get drivers in check.
> 
> If you're so smart why are you nt grasping this concept?


youre not grasping the concept of: UBER DOESNT CARE IF RIDERS COMPLAIN.

and if you dont drive anymore.. then why are you even talking about it? why are you giving bad advice to current drivers?

i think ill be an asshole to next 10-15 i pickup.. ill be deactivated in a week


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## SmokeyJonez (Jan 9, 2016)

Cou-ber said:


> Changes aren't going to happen...I don't think you know as much as you think...


go do some research.. they have changed the price after lowering it numerous times.. and the reason why they changed it, is bc drivers pushed back..

do you remember, over a year ago, Uber tried to make NYC black and SUV drivers take uberx and XL fares?? and 1,000 drivers showed up at the office the next day and they immediately changed it!!

Drivers at EWR were refusing fares bc they wanted the flat rate that paid significantly more than a ride to anywhere in Jersey.. it took a fews month, but Uber eventually doubled the rate at EWR.. they recently changed it, but that will backfire on them again

the regulations in NJ cant come soon enough!


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

SmokeyJonez said:


> youre not grasping the concept of: UBER DOESNT CARE IF RIDERS COMPLAIN.
> 
> and if you dont drive anymore.. then why are you even talking about it? why are you giving bad advice to current drivers?
> 
> i think ill be an asshole to next 10-15 i pickup.. ill be deactivated in a week


What a coincidence that you joined the same day the rate cuts were announced.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

To the NJ drivers that banded together and did that I say BRAVO. That's fantastic and exactly the kind of organization that we should be doing nationwide. 

But you don't seem to agree. Because you are not a driver.


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## SmokeyJonez (Jan 9, 2016)

Cou-ber said:


> My hunch is you've already been an arsehole to the last 100-150.
> 
> Guy, do you work for Uber? Troll the boards and monitor and report back to them like a good grunt is supposed to? Play fetch?
> 
> You're throwing your negativity at me like I've dumped your mother. Back off of me. I already got rage.


funny how someone talks about someone else being negative, when you were the one that started all the negativity by saying, we should be assholes to customers!

look in the mirror, worry about yourself and stop being a hypocrite..


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

We are on the same team, sir.

I am not the enemy.


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

SmokeyJonez said:


> funny how someone talks about someone else being negative, when you were the one that started all the negativity by saying, we should be assholes to customers!
> 
> look in the mirror, worry about yourself and stop being a hypocrite..


When did any passenger ever show he cared about you? Think they'll stop using Uber to support us?

You gotta fight fire with fire.

Send an email to Travis, not corporate. That's your plan?

We are being and you think an email to Travis will make it stop?

Baby, I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic.

Now, please, I get it, you don't like the methodology I suggest. So be it.

Can we move on already?


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

My hunch is you've already been an arsehole to the last 100-150.

Guy, do you work for Uber? Troll the boards and monitor and report back to them like a good grunt is supposed to? Play fetch?

You're throwing your negativity at me like I've dumped your mother. Back off of me. I already got rage.


(This one?)


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## SmokeyJonez (Jan 9, 2016)

Cou-ber said:


> When did any passenger ever show he cared about you? Think they'll stop using Uber to support us?
> 
> You gotta fight fire with fire.
> 
> ...


reality is.. if your rude or nasty and mean to the riders.. you will lose your job and nothing will get changed


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## Cou-ber (Jul 23, 2015)

SmokeyJonez said:


> reality is.. if your rude or nasty and mean to the riders.. you will lose your job and nothing will get changed


What I am suggesting is to accept the ping and never show. May not be nice but it isn't nasty.


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## Jace (Nov 14, 2015)

I suggest everybody step away from the forum for a few minutes and breathe. All this venom directed at each other isn't worth it.


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