# I got my PPP loan, now what?



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

I'm thinking of investing in a really super duper fast (PC)computer, but I have no idea how to do it. Any advice? 

What would you do with $11k if it fell into your lap? Vacay? Pay off car?


----------



## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Oscar Levant said:


> I'm thinking of investing in a really super duper fast (PC)computer, but I have no idea how to do it. Any advice?
> 
> What would you do with $11k if it fell into your lap? Vacay? Pay off car?


I'd hope I neve have to pay it back.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Big Lou said:


> I'd hope I neve have to pay it back.


You can apply for forgiveness, after a certain period, provide the docs which are in accordance with their guidelines. It's on the SBA site.


----------



## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Oscar Levant said:


> You can apply for forgiveness, after a certain period, provide the docs which are in accordance with their guidelines. It's on the SBA site.


Would you start spending that money if you're not sure about the pay back? 
When I got into a forbearance plan with my lender, I kept every penny till the forbearance period was signed and done with. 
Since so many people are banking on the forgiveness, would be a red flag to hold on the the money till you get the official word.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Big Lou said:


> Would you start spending that money if you're not sure about the pay back?
> When I got into a forbearance plan with my lender, I kept every penny till the forbearance period was signed and done with.
> Since so many people are banking on the forgiveness, would be a red flag to hold on the the money till you get the official word.


As long as it's spent on paying your employee, there's no risk of it not being forgiven. And you can borrow up to 2.5 months of your 2019 self employment income and have it be forgiven no questions asked.

One of the biggest issues most uber/lyft drivers will run into is that the PPP loans are based on your 2019 _taxable profit_, which for most of the drivers is zero-near zero.

The only documentation i had to provide was my 2019 tax return. Then i got 2.5 months of my taxable profit. I just stated on the form that I used the money to pay myself. They have a form specifically to do this.

The intention of setting up the PPP loan for 1099 workers was to make the PPP loan eligible for 1099 workers who had their incomes gutted, while not putting them 100% out of business.


----------



## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> As long as it's spent on paying your employee, there's no risk of it not being forgiven. And you can borrow up to 2.5 months of your 2019 self employment income and have it be forgiven no questions asked.
> 
> One of the biggest issues most uber/lyft drivers will run into is that the PPP loans are based on your 2019 _taxable profit_, which for most of the drivers is zero-near zero.
> 
> ...


Good luck.
I thought of it when it was first available, but I didn't have the guts to go through with it. 
If It works for you..... Good!


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

I would throw a big party 
for all my u/p friends with 
huge amounts of hookers and coke!!!


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Big Lou said:


> Would you start spending that money if you're not sure about the pay back?
> When I got into a forbearance plan with my lender, I kept every penny till the forbearance period was signed and done with.
> Since so many people are banking on the forgiveness, would be a red flag to hold on the the money till you get the official word.


60% has to be spent on 'payroll' ( ourselves, in our case, as IC, I would think ) and 40% on biz expenses, in order to apply for loan forgiveness.



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> As long as it's spent on paying your employee, there's no risk of it not being forgiven. And you can borrow up to 2.5 months of your 2019 self employment income and have it be forgiven no questions asked.
> 
> One of the biggest issues most uber/lyft drivers will run into is that the PPP loans are based on your 2019 _taxable profit_, which for most of the drivers is zero-near zero.
> 
> ...


We ICs can opt to use line 7 on IRS schedule C on your application, this I know for a fact, and that number is much much much larger than my 'net profit' which was close to zero. So, divide line 7 by 12, then multiply that by 2.5, and that is your loan. Mine was $11k, which came for me today. Hooray!


----------



## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I would throw a big party
> for all my u/p friends with
> huge amounts of hookers and coke!!!


Coca Cola is being boycotted. Haven't you heard?


----------



## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

Bitcoin...no brainer


----------



## Grubhubflub (Jun 16, 2018)

Oscar Levant said:


> I'm thinking of investing in a really super duper fast (PC)computer, but I have no idea how to do it. Any advice?
> 
> What would you do with $11k if it fell into your lap? Vacay? Pay off car?


Dude, you know you're gonna have to pay taxes on that money.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Big Lou said:


> Would you start spending that money if you're not sure about the pay back?
> When I got into a forbearance plan with my lender, I kept every penny till the forbearance period was signed and done with.
> Since so many people are banking on the forgiveness, would be a red flag to hold on the the money till you get the official word.


There's really no risk of it not being forgiven if you use the reason owner replacement compensation


Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> One of the biggest issues most uber/lyft drivers will run into is that the PPP loans are based on your 2019 _taxable profit_, which for most of the drivers is zero-near zero.


Now they're using gross income. Not net


Oscar Levant said:


> 60% has to be spent on 'payroll' ( ourselves, in our case, as IC, I would think ) and 40% on biz expenses, in order to apply for loan forgiveness.


60% minimum. In our case, it will be 100%. You'll use on a replacement compensation as the reason




Big Lou said:


> Good luck.
> I thought of it when it was first available, but I didn't have the guts to go through with it.
> If It works for you..... Good!


Hurry up there's still time not much but there is.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

I do my employers PPP applications and have just finished the PPP foregiveness process so I am extremely familiar with this.

How much trouble RS drivers have getting foregiveness will depend on how much they receive. There are 2 main issues for RS drivers:

There are “payroll” and “non-payroll” costs that qualify. In the case of RS there are virtually no non payroll costs allowable that are “essential” to RS. Either way it’s capped at 40% of the total.
The biggest issue by far will be the qualifying payroll costs. These are split up into three categories but the main point is you are the “owner” of the business and are not commingled with “employees” who receive a paycheck. As the “owner” you are therefore “capped” at $20,000 of income payment during the covered period. The covered period is pretty flexible.
So the bottom line is if you received $20,000 or less you probably will not have any problem getting up to 20k of foregiveness. Those who fudged up numbers and got significantly more than that will have a much bigger issue.

@Stevie The magic Unicorn, I wouldn’t say their are “no questions asked”. There are actually several questions asked but if you received a low enough amount to use the “simple” form you don’t have to submit the documentation with the foregiveness application. However, they can request the documentation any time they want so just be prepared.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Seamus said:


> I do my employers PPP applications and have just finished the PPP foregiveness process so I am extremely familiar with this.
> 
> How much trouble RS drivers have getting foregiveness will depend on how much they receive. There are 2 main issues for RS drivers:
> 
> ...


So basically as long as you didn't gross more than $98,000 you're fine.

I'm confused when you say the biggest problem we're going to have is the payroll costs. That's the only way we're going to get it forgiven and it's pretty simple. 100% of our loan is going to go to owner replacement compensation. We only have one thing to document, since there's no non payroll costs really. Since they max out our loan at 2 and 1/2 months of income, which is clearly less than the covered period, there's really no issue. Am I missing something?


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> So basically as long as you didn't gross more than $98,000 you're fine.
> 
> I'm confused when you say the biggest problem we're going to have is the payroll costs. That's the only way we're going to get it forgiven and it's pretty simple. 100% of our loan is going to go to owner replacement compensation. We only have one thing to document, since there's no non payroll costs really. Since they max out our loan at 2 and 1/2 months of income, which is clearly less than the covered period, there's really no issue. Am I missing something?


You essentially are correct. The payroll detail is as follows which could affect some people.:

For simplicity sake I'll just use a simple RS driver example, not the entire program. Payroll costs are broken up into 4 different categories for PPP foregiveness:

Payroll Compensation (W2 employees, not you)
"Owner" compensation
Benefits such as Medical insurance.
Payroll taxes
As the "owner" you are subject to separate rules than for W2 employees. Essentially, the owner is capped at 2.5 months of qualified compensation or $20,000 whichever is _lower _during the qualified period. For 99% of RS drivers the qualified period they should use the minimum period or 2.5 months. In other circumstances outside of a single prop RS driver that period could be 24 weeks and this is where the owners cap comes into play. For most this should be as simple as the amount you were approved for.

So if you were an "owner" using owner compensation only then 98k would be $20,416 so yes your caclulation is correct. Just remember that each case is different but the scenario as you described it would be true for most RS drivers I'm guessing. However, some other scenarios exist.


----------



## Rickos69 (Nov 8, 2018)

Seamus said:


> You essentially are correct. The payroll detail is as follows which could affect some people.:
> 
> For simplicity sake I'll just use a simple RS driver example, not the entire program. Payroll costs are broken up into 4 different categories for PPP foregiveness:
> 
> ...


You just couldn't help yourself!!!


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> PPP loans are based on your 2019


In PPP #1 you had to use 2019. For PPP #2 you can use either 2019 or 2020, whichever is to your best advantage.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Rickos69 said:


> You just couldn't help yourself!!!


 You caught me! I did say I'd never talk about the PPP, EIDL, or the Employee Retention Credit ever again because I didn't have the energy for the silly arguments anymore from people who had no idea what they were talking about!

This is different though, these are nice people having an intelligent conversation!!


----------



## iamthenewguy123 (Aug 24, 2019)

I would use it to pay off the car, that's your largest business expense. Then if for whatever reason it isn't forgiven, you simply pay it back with the money that would have gone toward vehicle expenses.


----------



## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> What would you do with $11k if it fell into your lap?


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> What would you do with $11k if it fell into your lap? Vacay? Pay off car?


I would pay myself back all the money that Uber and Lyft have stolen from me... Well a good portion of it anyways😂


----------



## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

I would put a lawyer on retainer .
They are cracking down on scams . The poster better damn well own a running business .


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Grubhubflub said:


> Dude, you know you're gonna have to pay taxes on that money.


If it's forgiven, don't know that yet. Otherwise, it's a loan with a 5 year term at a very low interest rate.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Daisey77 said:


> I would pay myself back all the money that Uber and Lyft have stolen from me... Well a good portion of it anyways😂


I already got a $10k UBer settlement from a class action lawsuit a couple years back. Still have the money, or most of it. The lawsuit forced Uber to pay us the money they stole. 'twas sweet.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Big Lou said:


> Good luck.
> I thought of it when it was first available, but I didn't have the guts to go through with it.
> If It works for you..... Good!


Why not? If you had to pay it all back, worst comes to worst, just pay it back with the proceeds, and don't spend it, the interest is so low, it's hardly anything. That's worst case scenario. In the meantime, it's a nice feeling with all that dough in the bank. I mean, all i dide was upload my schedule C and use line 7 as the basis for calculations, per SBA instructions for us independent contractors. Just be honest. Either they will send you the money, or you will be denied. I was denied the first time I tried. I tried with Womply and got denied. The second time I went through my own bank, which had a PPP SBA portal, and I got approved.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I would throw a big party
> for all my u/p friends with
> huge amounts of hookers and coke!!!


He ONLY got $11,000.00.
Wouldnt last 4 people the weekend . . .


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> As long as it's spent on paying your employee, there's no risk of it not being forgiven. And you can borrow up to 2.5 months of your 2019 self employment income and have it be forgiven no questions asked.
> 
> One of the biggest issues most uber/lyft drivers will run into is that the PPP loans are based on your 2019 _taxable profit_, which for most of the drivers is zero-near zero.
> 
> ...


almost right. 
PPP loans are based on gross income

My first PPP loan application required me to submit “proof” of my 2019 income and they accepted a schedule C or bank statements. My schedule C wouldn’t qualify me for a loan, because my bottom line net taxable in come was less than zero. So I submitted 12 months of bank statements I circled every Uber and Lyft deposit as well as every cash deposit with the statement that the only cash I ever get is from cash tips and cash private rides. I also circled deposits from my credit card processor noting that I accepted credit cards from my private ride customers

I added it all up and my loan was based on the total of everything I circled

the sba has changed the application for forgiveness and the documentation required several times. The most recent requirement was for a really short form where I stated all the money was used for payroll (owner compensation). No documentation was required. I just got a notice from the bank that they have reviewed my application and submitted it to the SBA I expect the final decision on forgiveness soon (the sba has 90 days to decide

I also applied for a second round PPP loan. This time all they would accept to document earnings was a schedule C. That application was denied because my bottom line was less than zero. But then they changed the process. They were looking at gross income not net taxable income. So I submitted a new application and it was just approved. As soon as I know the process ill


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

iamthenewguy123 said:


> I would use it to pay off the car, that's your largest business expense. Then if for whatever reason it isn't forgiven, you simply pay it back with the money that would have gone toward vehicle expenses.


PPP loans are forgiven if you use the money for certain specific purposes (mostly payroll) and a car wouldn’t qualify

However for sole proprietors or one man LLCs owner compensation is considered payroll. So the way you apply for forgiveness is to say the loan was used for owner compensation. 
So essentially you pay yourself which qualifies you for forgiveness. Then once the money is yours, you can use it for anything (like paying off the car)

understand I am not a lawyer or tax accountant or an expert of any kind, but I have received 2 Ppp loans and applied for forgiveness of one of them. The forgiveness application does not ask for anything except a statement that I used all the money for owner compensation


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

kingcorey321 said:


> I would put a lawyer on retainer .
> They are cracking down on scams . The poster better damn well own a running business .


we do own our “vehicle for hire” business


----------



## Grubhubflub (Jun 16, 2018)

Don't you have to be able to prove that your business was adversely affected by the pandemic, if you get audited?


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Grubhubflub said:


> Don't you have to be able to prove that your business was adversely affected by the pandemic, if you get audited? *on the application*


FIFY


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Seamus said:


> FIFY


I’m sure the answer is yes.
And mine was. My 2020 income was less than my 2019 income. And I suspect that was the case for most of us

however they didn’t ask for documentation of that and although I have the documentation I doubt that any audits will be done on the smaller loans. One of the questions on the application for forgiveness is. Was your loan or loans in the case of multiple companies under one ownership. Over $2 million. Mine wasn’t. I think they will look at some of the big boys, but probably not the small loans


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Grubhubflub said:


> Don't you have to be able to prove that your business was adversely affected by the pandemic, if you get audited?


 as long as you answer the questions honestly, you have nothing to worry about


----------



## lark (Sep 30, 2014)

Seamus said:


> You essentially are correct. The payroll detail is as follows which could affect some people.:
> 
> For simplicity sake I'll just use a simple RS driver example, not the entire program. Payroll costs are broken up into 4 different categories for PPP foregiveness:
> 
> ...





Seamus said:


> You essentially are correct. The payroll detail is as follows which could affect some people.:
> 
> For simplicity sake I'll just use a simple RS driver example, not the entire program. Payroll costs are broken up into 4 different categories for PPP foregiveness:
> 
> ...


Question. I got $9000.00 a couple of weeks ago for my first PPP loan. I put it in a checking account separate from my personal checking account. Do I start writing checks to myself every let’s say every 2 weeks for owner compensation until the money is gone?


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

lark said:


> Question. I got $9000.00 a couple of weeks ago for my first PPP loan. I put it in a checking account separate from my personal checking account. Do I start writing checks to myself every let’s say every 2 weeks for owner compensation until the money is gone?


Just to clarify, when you say _for my first PPP loan _do you mean for PPP 1 from last year or PPP 2 from this year but it's _your _first PPP?

You do not have to write checks to yourself on a regular basis. You can do it anytime you want over the next 2.5 months in any amounts adding up to 9,000, or in 1 lump sum. If you want to be extra thorough in the memo on the check write "owner's compensation". Odds are you will never even have to document any of this but if you do you will be totally covered. The important thing is just do it within 2.5 months from the date you received the money as that is the official start of the loan.

Later, you will apply for the PPP loan forgiveness using Form 3508S and going thru the bank you received the loan from.


----------



## lark (Sep 30, 2014)

Seamus said:


> Just to clarify, when you say _for my first PPP loan _do you mean for PPP 1 from last year or PPP 2 from this year but it's _your _first PPP?
> 
> You do not have to write checks to yourself on a regular basis. You can do it anytime you want over the next 2.5 months in any amounts adding up to 9,000, or in 1 lump sum. If you want to be extra thorough in the memo on the check write "owner's compensation". Odds are you will never even have to document any of this but if you do you will be totally covered. The important thing is just do it within 2.5 months from the date you received the money as that is the official start of the loan.
> 
> Later, you will apply for the PPP loan forgiveness using Form 3508S and going thru the bank you received the loan from.


It’s PPP 2 from this year. My first PPP.


----------



## lark (Sep 30, 2014)

Seamus said:


> Just to clarify, when you say _for my first PPP loan _do you mean for PPP 1 from last year or PPP 2 from this year but it's _your _first PPP?
> 
> You do not have to write checks to yourself on a regular basis. You can do it anytime you want over the next 2.5 months in any amounts adding up to 9,000, or in 1 lump sum. If you want to be extra thorough in the memo on the check write "owner's compensation". Odds are you will never even have to document any of this but if you do you will be totally covered. The important thing is just do it within 2.5 months from the date you received the money as that is the official start of the loan.
> 
> Later, you will apply for the PPP loan forgiveness using Form 3508S and going thru the bank you received the loan from.


Much Thx


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

PPP 2 is the one that uses your gross income which it appears they did since you said $9,000. PPP 1 was when they used the net income


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Daisey77 said:


> PPP 2 is the one that uses your gross income which it appears they did since you said $9,000. PPP 1 was when they used the net income


Ive said this here before. so apologies for repeating myself

Gross compensation (what goes on line 7 of your Schedule C) includes the money Uber and Lift take out of what the customer pays. so its a big number and more than we actually take out of our business, but its the number that they are using for the second round of PPP loans, As a result 

Regarding the 1st round of PPP loans: I applied through Pay Pal and they provided a worksheet to help with the actual application. They asked for documentation of income which I assumed would be a schedule C but their work sheet had this instruction

"If you havent filed 2019 Tax Returns, consider these forms of verification". 
1) payroll processing data
2) bank statements
3) receipts
4) Other verifiable....


I chose to use bank deposits, I printed all 12 monts of my bank statements....(120 pages) I circled every deposit from Uber and Lyft, as well as every cash deposit and every deposit from my credit card processing company and I added a note that totaled it all and explained that the cash and credit card deposits was income from private rides and cash tips

That info was accepted as documentation of my income from 2019 and was the basis for the approval of an $11500 PPP loan


The point of repeating this is correct what you said in the post I quoted 
PPP-1 actually used gross income too, as long as you could document it from something other than a schedule C


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> Why not? If you had to pay it all back, worst comes to worst, just pay it back with the proceeds, and don't spend it, the interest is so low, it's hardly anything. That's worst case scenario. In the meantime, it's a nice feeling with all that dough in the bank. I mean, all i dide was upload my schedule C and use line 7 as the basis for calculations, per SBA instructions for us independent contractors. Just be honest. Either they will send you the money, or you will be denied. I was denied the first time I tried. I tried with Womply and got denied. The second time I went through my own bank, which had a PPP SBA portal, and I got approved.


If you don’t know what to do with that money , you definitely DO NOT NEED IT .


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Ive said this here before. so apologies for repeating myself
> 
> Gross compensation (what goes on line 7 of your Schedule C) includes the money Uber and Lift take out of what the customer pays. so its a big number and more than we actually take out of our business, but its the number that they are using for the second round of PPP loans, As a result
> 
> ...


 oh gotcha! I didn't even think about doing that! Props to you! Yeah my first one I was only $1,300. My second one was 15,000. I think that used line 31 for the first one and line 7 for the second one. I may have those turned around though . Have you went through the forgiving process yet? I'm getting ready to start it on my first one


----------



## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> He ONLY got $11,000.00.
> Wouldnt last 4 people the weekend . . .


Yeah baby!!
*Let it rain







*


----------



## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Daisey77 said:


> oh gotcha! I didn't even think about doing that! Props to you! Yeah my first one I was only $1,300. My second one was 15,000. I think that used line 31 for the first one and line 7 for the second one. I may have those turned around though . Have you went through the forgiving process yet? I'm getting ready to start it on my first one


My first loan was $11,500 and the second was $12,130

After I submitted my forgiveness application for the first round PPP PayPal notified me that the rules had changed and that there was a new application to fill out. This was the simple application that asked for the loan number and amount of the loan and did I use it for payroll, I submitted that to paypal but then paypal asked me the same questions. They then completed an application for me

I have received notice that the application and PayPals recommendation has been submitted to the SBA...No decision yet


----------



## Jeff1205 (May 15, 2016)

I have a couple questions if anyone can help answer. My wife and I were collecting unemployment and we are both getting ready to get back on the road so we will no longer be collecting unemployment. 

Can I now apply for PPP?

If YES do we both have to apply separately or can I just apply using line 7 on Schedule C since we file our taxes jointly?

Thanks


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Jeff1205 said:


> I have a couple questions if anyone can help answer. My wife and I were collecting unemployment and we are both getting ready to get back on the road so we will no longer be collecting unemployment.
> 
> Can I now apply for PPP?
> 
> ...


I don't know how it works with filing your taxes jointly. I would think only one could do the PPP but I don't know. You might want to see what they would approve you at and see if it's in proportion with the entire tax return info or just half. However they're not accepting new PPP applications from my understanding because they ran out of money. They have money put aside to fund the ones that are processing but not new ones


----------



## Jeff1205 (May 15, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> I don't know how it works with filing your taxes jointly. I would think only one could do the PPP but I don't know. You might want to see what they would approve you at and see if it's in proportion with the entire tax return info or just half. However they're not accepting new PPP applications from my understanding because they ran out of money. They have money put aside to fund the ones that are processing but not new ones


Thanks for the reply. I saw after searching more that it was closed to new applicants but a few were still accepting. My wife and I both put an application in just incase they open up more funds or the funds they set aside don't get depleted. Hopefully SBA takes on some new applications if they still have funds from what was set aside. Not getting my hopes up but rather do something than not at all.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

UberPotomac said:


> If you don’t know what to do with that money , you definitely DO NOT NEED IT .


Oh, I know what to do with the money. Just sayin', worst case scenario.


----------



## notouber (Jan 12, 2016)

lark said:


> Question. I got $9000.00 a couple of weeks ago for my first PPP loan. I put it in a checking account separate from my personal checking account. Do I start writing checks to myself every let’s say every 2 weeks for owner compensation until the money is gone?


Please do it this way. You may never need to show it. But if the SBA asks for bank statements, you will be all set.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I just got notification yesterday my first one got forgiven. It's the smaller of the two because it was when they went off net income but still a good feeling


----------

