# How Much $$$ Did I Lose Ubering?



## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

For the math challenged Uber drivers, can you determine the correct answer to these driving equations?

*A.* 
Trip from the airport. Edge of city. Trip out of city into a rural area where no possibility of return trip or a complete waste of time waiting for that remote possibility.

Distance to pickup: 3 miles
Distance to destination: 45 miles
Return distance: 48 miles to original driver starting point
Fare: $65

Cost assumption using IRS mileage deduction for costs at 57 cents a mile.

*How much money was lost by the driver on this trip?*


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> For the math challenged Uber drivers, can you determine the correct answer to these driving equations?
> 
> A. Trip from the airport. Edge of city. Trip out of city into a rural area where no possibility of return trip or a complete waste of time waiting for that remote possibility.
> 
> ...


How much was the tip? 

You may want to help some people out by giving them your rates. And do you seriously always come back empty? That would suck.


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## jiwagon (Feb 19, 2015)

Say you accumulate 100,000 miles from Ubering in a $17k car. You can deduct $57,000. So if you make $57,000, with your logic, you made nothing really. Another logic would say you made $40,000. The real problem is, with low fares you will make more like $20,000 and then start subtracting maintenance costs. Basically you end up with a low compensation for driving that much.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> How much was the tip?
> 
> You may want to help some people out by giving them your rates. And do you seriously always come back empty? That would suck.


The question has an answer. There is sufficient information to derive one.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

jizzwagon said:


> Say you accumulate 100,000 miles from Ubering in a $17k car. You can deduct $57,000. So if you make $57,000, with your logic, *you made nothing really*. Another logic would say you made $40,000.


There is an answer to the math equation. Do you have the answer given the specifics in the question?

The opening post also shows that the answer is a LOSS, meaning not zero, but less than zero, a LOSS.


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## jiwagon (Feb 19, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> There is an answer to the math equation. Do you have the answer given the specifics in the question?
> 
> The opening post also shows that the answer is a LOSS, meaning not zero, but less than zero, a LOSS.


Ok the answer according to your logic is you lost 3.52


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

If there was logic to the thread I wouldn't calculate my operating cost at $0.57 per km. But then again if I was running proper insurance I think I would be calculating things at about $1 operating cost per km up here.

Personal insurance in Canada full coverage $200 per month 2 drivers.

Commercial insurance in Canada $700-$1000 per month (any driver licensed to operate the vehicle)

I know you are paying to make sure you are insured properly so you will always be at a loss on stuff like that.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

jizzwagon said:


> Ok the answer according to your logic is *you lost 3.52*


*We have a WINNA!* It was a real trip btw. Or close enough for math question purposes.

96 total miles x 57 cents a mile cost is $54.72

$65 fare minus $1 SRF x .8 (Uber's cut) yields $51.20 to driver

*Net loss to driver, $3.52*


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> If there was logic to the thread I wouldn't calculate my operating cost at $0.57 per km. But then again if I was running proper insurance I think I would be calculating things at about $1 operating cost per km up here.
> 
> Personal insurance in Canada full coverage $200 per month 2 drivers.
> 
> ...


Really doesn't have anything to do with the question. And it's 57 cents per MILE, not KM. But we have a winna! hoo ray!

The next question will be more interesting in regards to fixed overhead such as commercial insurance, so put your math hat on and get with the program.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

*B. *
-Driver runs 2 phones. One for Lyft app. One for Uber app. Both best of breed with high speed feeds. Cost $160 per month.
-Driver has commercial insurance that runs $315 per month more than previous std. personal auto policy.
-Driver drives enough TNC miles to guarantee going through one new set of Michelin's for XL ride per year which cost $1200 to replace.
-Driver drives enough TNC miles to require one oil change per month on the XL at a cost of $100.

If Uber's min. fare is $4. how many minimum fares must the above driver drive PER MONTH to cover the fixed costs above, *not counting any other costs?*


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## jiwagon (Feb 19, 2015)

Actually isn't the IRS deduction .575


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

jizzwagon said:


> Actually isn't the IRS deduction .575


Let's not get picky cause it makes it worse...

These are math questions that are 'close enough for horseshoes.'


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> *B. *
> -Driver runs 2 phones. One for Lyft app. One for Uber app. Both best of breed with high speed feeds. Cost $160 per month.
> -Driver has commercial insurance that runs $315 per month more than previous std. personal auto policy.
> -Driver drives enough TNC miles to guarantee going through one new set of Michelin's for XL ride per year which cost $1200 to replace.
> ...


168.75 trips which round up to 169 trips.
hint; more short jobs trashes your brakes far quicker.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> 168.75 trips which round up to 169 trips.
> hint; more short jobs trashes your brakes far quicker.


Not even close. Sorry. Try again if you want.


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## jiwagon (Feb 19, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> 168.75 trips which round up to 169 trips.
> hint; more short jobs trashes your brakes far quicker.


Forget brakes, it's bad for your engine.


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

Oh lord I just noticed I got a nail in my passenger front tire when I was in the rural area. Why the hell did I even accept this one?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

jizzwagon said:


> Forget brakes, it's bad for your engine.


Was saying your answer is way off. I totally agree with you on the brake thing. May add that to another math question.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberCemetery said:


> Oh lord I just noticed I got a nail in my passenger front tire when I was in the rural area. Why the hell did I even accept this one?


Let's not throw the wild card reality stuff in or it would really really suck.


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## jiwagon (Feb 19, 2015)

UberCemetery said:


> Oh lord I just noticed I got a nail in my passenger front tire when I was in the rural area. Why the hell did I even accept this one?


Because the prospect of $2 profit for 30 min of work. I'm at a tire shop replacing my tires right now. $700 total


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Question B still hanging in the que.


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## headtheball (Jan 26, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> *We have a WINNA!* It was a real trip btw. Or close enough for math question purposes.


yes, this is what my model gives. I assumed 2 hours.

Net Earnings $ (3.52)
Running Net Earnings $ (3.52)

Ave Net per hour $ (1.76)
Ave Net per Mile $ (0.04)


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

headtheball said:


> yes, this is what my model gives. I assumed 2 hours.
> 
> Net Earnings $ (3.52)
> Running Net Earnings $ (3.52)
> ...


Awesome analysis! Perhaps you can provide the real answer for *QUESTION B?*


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberCemetery said:


> Oh lord I just noticed I got a nail in my passenger front tire when I was in the rural area. Why the hell did I even accept this one?


Had that happen to me last week. Blew a hole in the sidewall on a pothole going to pick up a ride on Sunday.

Good thing I had the extra road hazard protection on the tires.

Cost $180 for Tire and installation. (Not to mention good luck finding a matching winter tire in March.)

Actual cost due to tread wear difference. $36

There went my Sunday earnings. for the 2 hours I was online.


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

How about calculating Uber losses in other ways...

I registered a loss on paper when I did my taxes. In reality, I did pretty great with Uber last year. I payed off a shit ton of debt and put a bunch of money in savings. In fact, I was at the point where I started exploring buying a condo because the rental market in Denver is for suckers. Well, unfortunately, the few grand I got back in refund money for Uber, from reporting it as a "loss," resulted in losing about $20k in max loan value. Effectively, my tax loss from Uber is preventing me from securing a mortgage loan for a reasonable value in Denver. Whoops.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Had that happen to me last week. Blew a hole in the sidewall on a pothole going to pick up a ride on Sunday.
> 
> Good thing I had the extra road hazard protection on the tires.
> 
> ...


There is a short stretch of highway where I drive that is riddled with very deep potholes. The state DOT put out a public warning as they had documented 32 cars that blew tires from pothole ramming in a single day on that stretch.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> For the math challenged Uber drivers, can you determine the correct answer to these driving equations?
> 
> *A.*
> Trip from the airport. Edge of city. Trip out of city into a rural area where no possibility of return trip or a complete waste of time waiting for that remote possibility.
> ...


In the context of this problem, the IRS rate matters little,other than to determine tax liability. Lets ignore taxes for a minute and then it's really simple, what does it cost you to operate your vehicle per mile. My best guess for my vehicle is that for gas, tires, oil changes, other maintenance, insurance and depreciation it cost me .40 highway or .42 city per mile. Assuming all highway miles, 96 miles * .40 = $38.40 expense. $65. fare -38.40 = $26.60.

So you have 26.60 pretax! Whoo hoo. That's for 2 solid hours of driving I assume + some percentage of your dead time on standby waiting for a call. So as sad as this sounds, it might be one of the better rides you can take not considering all of the risk you are assuming.

Oops, I forgot to deduct Uber commission, that takes away 13.80, leaving you with 12.80 for your 2 hours of work. You can make more hanging out at home depot!


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

duggles said:


> How about calculating Uber losses in other ways...
> 
> *I registered a loss on paper when I did my taxes. In reality, I did pretty great with Uber last year. *I payed off a shit ton of debt and put a bunch of money in savings. In fact, I was at the point where I started exploring buying a condo because the rental market in Denver is for suckers. Well, unfortunately, the few grand I got back in refund money for Uber, from reporting it as a "loss," resulted in losing about $20k in max loan value. Effectively, my tax loss from Uber is preventing me from securing a mortgage loan for a reasonable value in Denver. Whoops.


*
You do observe the circular logic employed there I hope?*


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Disgusted Driver said:


> In the context of this problem, the IRS rate matters little,other than to determine tax liability. Lets ignore taxes for a minute and then it's really simple, what does it cost you to operate your vehicle per mile. My best guess for my vehicle is that for gas, tires, oil changes, other maintenance, insurance and depreciation it cost me .40 highway or .42 city per mile. Assuming all highway miles, 96 miles * .40 = $38.40 expense. $65. fare -38.40 = $26.60.
> 
> So you have 26.60 pretax! Whoo hoo. That's for 2 solid hours of driving I assume + some percentage of your dead time on standby waiting for a call. So as sad as this sounds, it might be one of the better rides you can take not considering all of the risk you are assuming.


I understand that many drivers think they are smarter than the IRS tax deduction for mileage and that may well be true,

BUT for* reality MATH purposes* we're discussing real tax consequences and real tax forms and REAL profit or loss as it pertains to the reality of the IRS and what a driver will show BANKS if and when they need to fund their new ride.

*Question B remains in the que.*


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## headtheball (Jan 26, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Awesome analysis! Perhaps you can provide the real answer for *QUESTION B?*


Many of the costs you highlight in question B are assumed in the IRS deduction of 57c so it would be wrong to double count. Other costs are less than paid b/c they are deductible but obviously you need a second income to realize the benefit.

Tax complicates financial modelling so the answer to B is not unique and is determined by personal circumstances. For example, I made a tax loss in ride share last year. I chose the itemized path rather than the standard deduction per mile. Using the itemized system made my loss greater, which was beneficial to me, as that loss offset high tax rate income as well as providing a lower base income for student aid application (worth several thousand dollars).


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> *You do observe the circular logic employed there I hope?*


Certainly. Let's just say mileage was flexible.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

headtheball said:


> *Many of the costs you highlight in question B are assumed in the IRS deduction of 57c *so it would be wrong to double count. Other costs are less than paid b/c they are deductible but obviously you need a second income to realize the benefit.
> 
> Tax complicates financial modelling so the answer to B is not unique and is determined by personal circumstances. For example, I made a tax loss in ride share last year. I chose the itemized path rather than the standard deduction per mile. Using the itemized system made my loss greater, which was beneficial to me, as that loss offset high tax rate income as well as providing a lower base income for student aid application (worth several thousand dollars).


The question does not allow that to enter the fact. *It's purely a driver cash flow question* based on the numbers provided.

Give the answer a shot!


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

duggles said:


> Certainly. Let's just say mileage was flexible.


If you have never been through an IRS audit for mileage I can assure you it's no picnic.

*Question B remains unanswered. *


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

*Question B seems to be a math hurdle.*


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

After driving for lyft and uber it gave me an idea of how the ride sharing platform works. Trust me guys the only people making money out of this are UBER and lyft not you. 
I come from an accounting background and it didn't take me long to calculate the depreciating value of my car, tires, wear and tear and insurance etc. The actual cost to me was $1.20/mile but could vary in your case so how can one possibly make money at $0.75/mile? 
There is not much of a difference between cab companies and uber, they both make money by abusing their clientele... For taxi cabs, it's the passengers. For uber and lyft; their drivers.


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> If you have never been through an IRS audit for mileage I can assure you it's no picnic.


I believe you. This is the 1% that I don't want to be a part of. Still holding out hope for THE 1%, though.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> After driving for lyft and uber it gave me an idea of how the ride sharing platform works. Trust me guys the only people making money out of this are UBER and lyft not you.
> I come from an accounting background and it didn't take me long to calculate the depreciating value of my car, tires, wear and tear and insurance etc. The actual cost to me was $1.20/mile but could vary in your case so how can one possibly make money at $0.75/mile?
> There is not much of a difference between cab companies and uber, they both make money by abusing their clientele... For taxi cabs, it's the passengers. For uber and lyft; their drivers.


IF you have an accounting background then question B should be a snap for you.

Give it a shot!


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

duggles said:


> I believe you. This is the 1% that I don't want to be a part of. Still holding out hope for THE 1%, though.


I did find it interesting that you had a taxable provable loss for Uber/Lyfting. These kinds of losses can be red flags for IRS audits. Not saying they'd pick on a full timer cause they aren't making shit anyway but if a guy making 50-60 grand a year is writing off a few grand a year for Ubering they might stand a higher chance of getting the audit call.


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I did find it interesting that you had a taxable provable loss for Uber/Lyfting. These kinds of losses can be red flags for IRS audits. Not saying they'd pick on a full timer cause they aren't making shit anyway but if a guy making 50-60 grand a year is writing off a few grand a year for Ubering they might stand a higher chance of getting the audit call.


That's my bet. I'm pretty small time fish, both my overall income and the percentage of income from rideshare. One (I) would hope that there's tax offenders that are far more valuable to fry.


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## headtheball (Jan 26, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> -Driver runs 2 phones. One for Lyft app. One for Uber app. Both best of breed with high speed feeds. Cost $160 per month.
> -Driver has commercial insurance that runs $315 per month more than previous std. personal auto policy.
> -Driver drives enough TNC miles to guarantee going through one new set of Michelin's for XL ride per year which cost $1200 to replace.
> -Driver drives enough TNC miles to require one oil change per month on the XL at a cost of $100.
> ...


Fixed costs above are the only first 2 for $475. The others are in the 57 cents per mile.

Why you only car about fixed cost make little sense to me. Maybe you are just trying to make a point.

So, Assuming no variable costs (like gas) for operations then you would 'earn' $2.40 for each of your min fares. To generate $475 in earnings @ $2.4 it would require 197.9 min fares.

If you want to do just straight itemized for CS analysis then you need mileage, gas and all other costs to put in the model.


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

Total monthly cost: 160+315+1200/12+100 = $675 

Min fare $4. 

Answer = 675/4 = 168.75 min rides at $4 each to break even above mentioned fixed costs.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

headtheball said:


> Fixed costs above are the only first 2 for $475. The others are in the 57 cents per mile.


Irrelevant to the math as it is a 'cash flow only' math test based on a limited (but REAL) set of fixed driver monthly costs and how much actual cash has to come back from doing min. fares only to recoup those hard fixed costs. The IRS number has nothing to do with this math test in QUESTION B.


> Why you only car about fixed cost make little sense to me. Maybe you are just trying to make a point.


I'm saying that in the example given it's a real set of costs, not representative of all costs, that recur on a monthly basis that MUST be paid and therefore there must also be a hard cash return to pay those costs. *The question is limited in scope and intent to only the numbers provided.* And there is a real answer to what I would consider to be a simple quotient of numbers.


> So, Assuming no variable costs (like gas) for operations then you would 'earn' $2.40 for each of your min fares. To generate $475 in earnings @ $2.4 it would require *197.9 min fares*.



*Wrong answer as it pertains to the number sets provided for Question B.*



> If you want to do just straight itemized for CS analysis then you need mileage, gas and all other costs to put in the model.


I agree, but that's not the question, B.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> Total monthly cost: 160+315+1200/12+100 = $675
> 
> Min fare $4.
> 
> Answer = 675/4 = 168.75 min rides at $4 each to break even above mentioned fixed costs.


Nope. You're close, but not quite there yet. You are actually off by a long shot on the number of fares required to satisfy the question. Remember in the previous question the fare was $65, BUT that was not what the driver received.


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

Wait a min. What question are you exactly referring to?


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

headtheball said:


> Many of the costs you highlight in question B are assumed in the IRS deduction of 57c so it would be wrong to double count. Other costs are less than paid b/c they are deductible but obviously you need a second income to realize the benefit.
> 
> Tax complicates financial modelling so the answer to B is not unique and is determined by personal circumstances. For example, I made a tax loss in ride share last year. I chose the itemized path rather than the standard deduction per mile. Using the itemized system made my loss greater, which was beneficial to me, as that loss offset high tax rate income as well as providing a lower base income for student aid application (worth several thousand dollars).


I'm doing the same strategy for last year. I had a huge start up expense so I can claim everything. Winter tires....the whole lot. I will be going the itemized route.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> Wait a min. What question are you exactly referring to?


If you have driven a min. $4 Uber fare you should know the driver net to calculate the cash flow question.


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> If you have driven a min. $4 Uber fare you should know the driver net to calculate the cash flow question.


If the question your are referring to is:

*B. *
-Driver runs 2 phones. One for Lyft app. One for Uber app. Both best of breed with high speed feeds. Cost $160 per month.
-Driver has commercial insurance that runs $315 per month more than previous std. personal auto policy.
-Driver drives enough TNC miles to guarantee going through one new set of Michelin's for XL ride per year which cost $1200 to replace.
-Driver drives enough TNC miles to require one oil change per month on the XL at a cost of $100.

If Uber's min. fare is $4. how many minimum fares must the above driver drive PER MONTH to cover the fixed costs above, *not counting any other costs?*


*Then I can't see why my answer is incorrect. 
Please enlighten me with the correct answer lol *


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> If the question your are referring to is:
> 
> *B. *
> -Driver runs 2 phones. One for Lyft app. One for Uber app. Both best of breed with high speed feeds. Cost $160 per month.
> ...


The driver does NOT receive $4 on a min. fare.


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

Oh I see what you are saying now... It's been a long time since I drove for uber. 

So let's just say 'total cost for the month/ whatever the driver receives on a $4 fare = your answer


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> Oh I see what you are saying now... It's been a long time since I drove for uber.
> 
> So let's just say 'total cost for the month/ whatever the driver receives on a $4 fare = your answer


Well, finish it up and you too can be a math WINNA. I'll have some more after question B get's hit correctly.


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

Lol I don't remember how much uber charges now a days but let's say if it's 20% 0.2x4 = 0.80 
4-0.80= 3.20 take home 
675/3.2 = 210.93 rides


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## headtheball (Jan 26, 2015)

675/2.40


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> Lol I don't remember how much uber charges now a days but let's say if it's 20% 0.2x4 = 0.80
> 4-0.80= 3.20 take home
> 675/3.2 = 210.93 rides


Obviously you are not versed in determining Uber's net to driver on a min. fare. I'll give you one more hint. The number you are looking for has already been provided by another poster in the thread, who didn't have the total costs accurate. You have the total costs accurate, but not the net to driver. So no guessing. There is a REAL answer to the question.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

headtheball said:


> 675/2.40


Please finish and yer a winna...first one to* a final answer...*is


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> For the math challenged Uber drivers, can you determine the correct answer to these driving equations?
> 
> *A.*
> Trip from the airport. Edge of city. Trip out of city into a rural area where no possibility of return trip or a complete waste of time waiting for that remote possibility.
> ...


$4.00 loss


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

281.25 haha


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> *We have a WINNA!* It was a real trip btw. Or close enough for math question purposes.
> 
> 96 total miles x 57 cents a mile cost is $54.72
> 
> ...


The actual IRS number is 57.5 cents per mile.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

pengduck said:


> The actual IRS number is 57.5 cents per mile.


These are close enough for horseshoe driver math questions, as prior noted in the thread.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> 281.25 haha


Not quite. But you're very very close!


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

What? How is that possible... If the take home is 2.40 then that should be the answer. 
I give up...


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> What? How is that possible... If the take home is 2.40 then that should be the answer.
> I give up...


There is no such animal as a .25 fare my friend.


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

Just like there are 365.242 days in a year  

It was purely a mathematical question so the answer is correct.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> Just like there are 365.242 days in a year
> 
> It was purely a mathematical question so the answer is correct.


First poster to post the actual number of fares required is the winna! So far, none.


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

Repost the question and quote that you would like to have the answer rounded to the nearest fare... Lol


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> Repost the question and quote that you would like to have the answer rounded to the nearest fare... Lol


Said how many fares. Just stab the dang number in and yer the winna!


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

Nope how many fares doesn't mean how many fares rounded to the nearest whole number. Say it and I will write the answer..


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> Nope how many fares doesn't mean how many fares rounded to the nearest whole number. Say it and I will write the answer..


281 fares is not the answer nor is 281.25 fares.


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## osman tanvir (Mar 18, 2015)

Then what is 282? That can't be correct either as if I am to ask you the same question but instead of a month calculate it over 100 months 
The correct answer would be = 281.25x100= 28125 and not 28200


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

osman tanvir said:


> *Then what is 282? *That can't be correct either as if I am to ask you the same question but instead of a month calculate it over 100 months
> The correct answer would be = 281.25x100= 28125 and not 28200


*Yes, we have a winna! *

It would factally take 282 min. fares per month to cover that cash flow question because 281 is not sufficient nor is 281.25 available as it is 1/4 of a non-existing fare.

I gave question B framed largely around my own fixed monthly costs that have to be paid based on some of my fixed costs. This requires doing somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 min. fares, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year just to pay those fixed costs and not counting any other real costs.

So, *jizzwagon *won math winna Question A.

And after much prompting you,* osman tanvir*, have the winna answer for Question B. with a close second being awarded to headtheball after he spotted your correct total figure, but no final answer, which does require rounding up to a full min. fare to finish it up.

Question C shortly.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Man, that's sad. I almost Feel for you guys.
except the cab business here is so bad, I manipulated to blend in DSS clients too (at a much lower milage rate with no tip).
at least my bottom line is better than an Uber...I just can't believe people are still doing it in the .75 to 1.00 markets!
My DSS contract work pays $1.54 per mile, and that's AFTER all franchise fees and percentages are taken out.
whew!
All that and I dont screw over my customers (like someone put forth in this thread).
I charge enough to stay in business,AND pay my mortgage. Business 101.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

*Question C.*

A new driver decides to give UberX his all. He drives 7 days a week, an average of 14 hours a day for those 7 days and grosses $1900. before Uber's cut. To do that the driver provided 140 total fares for the week. He did not turn down any pings, even ones with longer distances to pax pickups.

After seeing the net to driver he even thinks he might have made some money. In reviewing his mileage total he notices that to gross that dollar amount with Uber he actually put 1700 total miles on his vehicle.

He thinks to himself, shit, at $1900 a week, 52 weeks a year, that's over 8 grand a month. *I'm KILLING IT. * And he even thinks about bragging to his friends, relatives and anyone else who will listen about how great Uber driving is.

But then he sits down to do the math using the IRS calculation for mileage cost at 57 cents a mile and figures out how much an hour he really made driving that week that he would report to the IRS and to the bank if he needed to borrow money for any reason.

How much money PER HOUR, rounded UP to the nearest penny, did this driver make that week Ubering full bore and giving it his all? (after Uber's cut and other charges)

P.S. He's not only exhausted to the max when he's done for the week, he's also pissed off when he realizes his math answer.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Man, that's sad. I almost Feel for you guys.
> except the cab business here is so bad, I manipulated to blend in DSS clients too (at a much lower milage rate with no tip).
> at least my bottom line is better than an Uber...I just can't believe people are still doing it in the .75 to 1.00 markets!
> My DSS contract work pays $1.54 per mile, and that's AFTER all franchise fees and percentages are taken out.
> ...


Then you will just LOVE Question C. Give the answer a shot if you know your UberX pay. If not you may just want to watch.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> *My DSS contract work pays $1.54 per mile*, and that's AFTER all franchise fees and percentages are taken out.
> whew!
> All that and I dont screw over my customers (like someone put forth in this thread).
> I charge enough to stay in business,AND pay my mortgage. Business 101.


And yer yob is whetting my appetite...


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

$4.48 per hour.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

duggles said:


> $4.48 per hour.


Ah, we have an experienced driver math genius in our midst.
*
Congratulations Duggles, our winna of math Question C!*

Kind of puts the 'make' 90 Grand a year driving Uber into perspective doesn't it?

P.S. Those were the general results of my first full give it yer all week of Ubering. And well before the last rate cutz.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Was saying your answer is way off. I totally agree with you on the brake thing. May add that to another math question.


You personal time invested calculation is wrong
Anguish factor shortened you life span by 1hr 20min


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> You personal time invested calculation is wrong
> Anguish factor shortened you life span by 1hr 20min


I actually like driving and pax. It's just shitty money.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I actually like driving and pax. It's just shitty money.


LOL!


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> LOL!


Deadly serious, except for the shit for pay the gig itself apart from that is cool.

IF only it paid. Which will bring me to Question D.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Shoot


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

There are only so many happy driver minutes in us , use them wisely


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

*Question D.*

The Uber driver in Question C realizes that he is not going to be able to keep up with the frenetic pace required to make $4.48 an hour for 98 hours every week and decides to cut back to only driving higher pax turnover times to get his weekly schedule down to 60 hours a week, maybe less dead miles using some considerations on what he will do and when, and hoping to put his hourly time on the job to something he can live with and still have a semi-life.

*THEN Uber cuts the gross fare paid to drivers before Uber's cut and other costs by 30%.*

Using the math provided in Question C, the driver sits down to calculate the same scenario in his net hourly take after Uber's cut and other costs and decides not to even get on the road again for UberX std. rates, without even having to drive to test it out.
*
What was the bottom line of that calculation?*


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

The sad truth ladies, and gentleman is the more hours you are logged in to the system the less you make per hour.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberCemetery said:


> The sad truth ladies, and gentleman is the more hours you are logged in to the system the less you make per hour.


This chart has been floating around for awhile. It's old but the logic works.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> *Question D.*
> 
> The Uber driver in Question C realizes that he is not going to be able to keep up with the frenetic pace required to make $4.48 an hour for 98 hours every week and decides to cut back to only driving higher pax turnover times to get his weekly schedule down to 60 hours a week, maybe less dead miles using some considerations on what he will do and when, and hoping to put his hourly time on the job to something he can live with and still have a semi-life.
> 
> ...


You just bumped your self in to the #1 spot in UBER's hit list


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> This chart has been floating around for awhile. It's old but the logic works.


Wouldn't compute for TNC driving. Too many dead hours during the week bring the hourly numbers down dramatically. Every cabbie that sits around picking his ass in dead times knows it.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> You just bumped your self in to the #1 spot in UBER's hit list


None of the scenarios in question are bullshit stories.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Wouldn't compute for TNC driving. Too many dead hours during the week bring the hourly numbers down dramatically. Every cabbie that sits around picking his ass in dead times knows it.


This is from TNC driving. It was taken from data by Uber drivers in New York on November 3rd. also this was just before the rate cut. Below are some point in the article.

What's going on? A few key points:


In a given week, there are a limited number of surge-pricing hours - Friday and Saturday nights or periods of bad weather. Drivers often tell me that these windows are where driving for Uber makes economic sense. If they had only regular fares, driving wouldn't be worth their time.
The more hours drivers work per week, the more they'll have to work lower-earning hours to fill their schedule, leading to lower average earnings.
But working more hours a week also lessens the risk of having extremely low hourly earnings. You're more likely to get closer to the average pay.
Although Uber likes to quote yearly earnings for "full-time" drivers (which they call drivers who work 40 or more hours a week), a growing number of its drivers are part-time, Uber's New York general manager has said. It's an attractive option, as working only the few choice hours is the only way to earn very high hourly pay.


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Ah, we have an experienced driver math genius in our midst.


It is these same basic math skills that I use to make sure I'm netting a minimum of $15/hr after the IRS deduction is factored in. Luckily, I'm usually a little bit higher than that. However, the amount of hours that I'm able to work at this rate is becoming more and more limited.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> This is from TNC driving. It was taken from data by Uber drivers in New York on November 3rd. also this was just before the rate cut. Below are some point in the article.
> 
> What's going on? A few key points:
> 
> ...


Selective charting. Most of the time when getting public information from Uber *they are sorely retroactive* and only use information that suits their purposes. Run those same numbers in any market but NYC or better yet, ask cabbies in NYC if they now have even more downtime because of TNC and you'll have an honest chart.

If Uber packs in 10,000 more drivers in NYC as one poster claimed in another thread, it is likely that downtime for full time TNC drivers will SUCK and that chart won't look anything similar to what you put up. IF that chart is scaling upwards it may indicate a need for slightly more drivers, that's all.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Selective charting. Most of the time when getting public information from Uber *they are sorely retroactive* and only use information that suits their purposes. Run those same numbers in any market but NYC or better yet, ask cabbies in NYC if they now have even more downtime because of TNC and you'll have an honest chart.


Based on my experience this does hold true. Call it what you will but unless you can provide evidence this is inaccurate then I'm all ears.

But I think we are actually talking the same thing. The more hours you work the more stable your per/h rate becomes and in the end you can only make so much. It's not I made $30 per hour for 10 hours and now I worked 60 hours it will be the same. It drops to account for swings in the type of driving and the times you do it.

Figured this was just logical.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Based on my experience this does hold true. Call it what you will but unless you can provide evidence this is inaccurate then I'm all ears.


Few of us would take any publicized Uber report of facts as accurate, generally speaking.



> But I think we are actually talking the same thing. The more hours you work the more stable your per/h rate becomes and in the end you can only make so much. It's not I made $30 per hour for 10 hours and now I worked 60 hours it will be the same. It drops to account for swings in the type of driving and the times you do it.
> 
> Figured this was just logical.


The general gist of that chart SEEMS to show that the more hours you work, the (slightly) more you make.

I would not consider that truthful for TNC driving.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

duggles said:


> It is these same basic math skills that I use to make sure I'm netting a minimum of $15/hr after the IRS deduction is factored in. Luckily, I'm usually a little bit higher than that. However, the amount of hours that I'm able to work at this rate is becoming more and more limited.


Then *give Question D a swing!* You could be a double math question winna!


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

Question D: Questions please

1. Did he still drive 1700 miles that week in only 60 hours? 
2. And the 30% rate reduction was from the $1900.00 correct?
3. What are the other costs?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberCemetery said:


> Question D: Questions please
> 
> 1. Did he still drive 1700 miles that week in only 60 hours?
> 2. And the 30% rate reduction was from the $1900.00 correct?
> 3. What are the other costs?


Nope. Just ran the same formula using prior facts. If you run the math you'll see why the hourly quotient won't matter anyway.

Yes on 2.

3. Everything the same from Question C.


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> *Question D.*
> 
> *What was the bottom line of that calculation?*


I believe the driver lost $17, or roughly 17 cents per hour driven.


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

Question D :

$6.01 per hour


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

duggles said:


> I believe the driver lost $17, or roughly 17 cents per hour driven.


*BINGO DINGO!*

You my friend know your math.

Duggles, the winna of math Question D and the first double math question winna! hoo haa

The driver in question determined that if he couldn't make a profit giving it his all, then doing the same drill even with modifications would likely result in a waste of time and money.

Which will bring me to math question E shortly.


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

Congrats @duggles


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> None of the scenarios in question are bullshit stories.


The formula you are after is locked in a safe at UBER only 2 people have Keyes 
This formula can potentially take the whole US economy with it .


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Seriously in a bit afraid of question E


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberCemetery said:


> Question D :
> 
> $6.01 per hour


Not even close.

Here is how Duggles determined the math for Question C.

$1900 gross minus $140 SRF fees x .8 = $1408 gross to driver.
1700 miles @ 57 cents costs per mile = $969

Net to driver/$439 divided by 98 hours, rounded up to nearest penny, $4.48

After Uber's rate cut of 30% off the gross fare it's this:

1900 x .7 = $1330 minus $140 SRF x .8 = $952 net to driver minus the prior mileage calc of $969* resulting in a loss to driver of $17 for 98 hours on the yob.*


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Not even close.
> 
> Here is how Duggles determined the math for Question C.


Don't give my secrets away!


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> $140 SRF


Did not use that, and I calculated the 60 hours for the week not the 98 opps


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

duggles said:


> Don't give my secrets away!


I gave you a trophy. That has to be worth something?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

*Question E*

Driver in questions C and D can't really believe his own eyes on the math after Uber's rate cut and thinking Uber CAN'T be that stupid takes a day, just a day, to commit his all into trying to make an hourly wage under the new improved driver pay rate of 90 cents a mile and 16 cents per min. He disregards the drop fee, thinking it's not long for life and never made much difference in the equations to start with. And he's never taken the guarantees having exceeded them in the past during the hours they were paid anyway.

So driver spends the day on the road, totally committed to not wasting a single dead mile to try to maximize earnings.

Driver drives 100 paid miles. Spends 5 paid hours doing so with about an average speed of 20 mph on paid time. Stays entirely in the hot zone to cut down on the chance of getting into a long one way fare with a lot of dead miles and ends up with only 35 dead miles which was a new low dead mile to paid mile record, largely spent just driving to the pax pickup locations. Driver spent 10 hours total and did 20 fares, a fairly brisk day, but since so many drivers were driving for guarantees there was no surge. Driver considered it to be kind of a typical, maybe even semi brisk day in a hot zone but off peak hours.

How much did driver make net per hour to driver rounded UP to the nearest penny when the IRS mileage deduction of 57 cents was applied for driver costs?

His one day real driving experiment confirmed that driving UberX std rates was an utter and complete waste of time. Oh, and NOBODY TIPPED.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

duggles said:


> Don't give my secrets away!


Math should not be secret. Otherwise they'd think you were cheating.


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

Question E

4.16 per hour

I think this is wrong?


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

Question E 

2nd answer $1.75 per hour


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Hourly pay has always sucked in the cab business.
I'm a lifer, I'm in it to feed my kids and pay my mortgage off 20 years early.
it's my business. I'm incorporated. Much like a custom guitar builder, I know my hourly wage sucks rocks. My goal is to maximize annual net, period.


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

Question E 

3rd answer $1.35 per hour


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberCemetery said:


> Question E
> 
> 4.16 per hour
> 
> I think this is wrong?


Actually long by quite a bit.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberCemetery said:


> Question E
> 
> 3rd answer $1.35 per hour


Now short by even more.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberCemetery said:


> Question E
> 
> 2nd answer $1.75 per hour


Still short.

Since you did 3 attempts will note that the number of fares and the SRF don't enter into the equations for Question E. Driver gross numbers only calculated by miles and time pay quotients minus Uber's cut. Adding and then subtracting the SRF won't make any difference to the final answer.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Hourly pay has always sucked in the cab business.
> I'm a lifer, I'm in it to feed my kids and pay my mortgage off 20 years early.
> it's my business. I'm incorporated. Much like a custom guitar builder, I know my hourly wage sucks rocks. My goal is to maximize annual net, period.


If the numbers work for you that's really all that matters. I assume you shoot for the 38-45K range in order to support your family? Higher, better yet. But there are some minimum thresholds that are hard to avoid to survive.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Uber has you guys bamboozled because the real curves of understanding kick in at about 3 years of full time driving. Uber counts on a lot of the fuzzy logic I have seen on this forum.
non fuzzy fact; You are not going to operate a cab, legal or gypsy, in North America for a penny less than $12,000.00 a year expense. The mean average is closer to twice that based on big markets like Boston, LA, DC. I'm not even factoring in medallions- I've never owned a tradable medallion- just basic operating expenses.
if you are below $1.80 per paid mile, you are not going to make a full time cab, legal or otherwise work.
I have tried and true recipes for the "slow nickel" that I will not share here- I don't need more knowledgeable competition, frankly you guys are killing me as it is!
Go slow make dough (the full time cabbie way).
Go fast it ain't gonna last (Uber).


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Uber has you guys bamboozled because the real curves of understanding kick in at about 3 years of full time driving. Uber counts on a lot of the fuzzy logic I have seen on this forum.
> non fuzzy fact; You are not going to operate a cab, legal or gypsy, in North America for a penny less than $12,000.00 a year expense. The mean average is closer to twice that based on big markets like Boston, LA, DC. I'm not even factoring in medallions- I've never owned a tradable medallion- just basic operating expenses.
> if you are below $1.80 per paid mile, you are not going to make a full time cab, legal or otherwise work.
> I have tried and true recipes for the "slow nickel" that I will not share here- I don't need more knowledgeable competition, frankly you guys are killing me as it is!
> ...





TwoFiddyMile said:


> Uber has you guys bamboozled because the real curves of understanding kick in at about 3 years of full time driving. Uber counts on a lot of the fuzzy logic I have seen on this forum.
> non fuzzy fact; You are not going to operate a cab, legal or gypsy, in North America for a penny less than $12,000.00 a year expense. The mean average is closer to twice that based on big markets like Boston, LA, DC. I'm not even factoring in medallions- I've never owned a tradable medallion- just basic operating expenses.
> if you are below $1.80 per paid mile, you are not going to make a full time cab, legal or otherwise work.
> I have tried and true recipes for the "slow nickel" that I will not share here- I don't need more knowledgeable competition, frankly you guys are killing me as it is!
> ...


My money is in this statement


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

20yearsdriving said:


> My money is in this statement


Old school way , I walk in a bar half of people there high five me all customers 
I only drink alcohol couple times a year when I do I take 500.00
To the local bar keep buying drinks for all best form of advertisement 
You build you name 
80% of my bussiness comes from the small town I live in 
Everywhere I go I know somebody because of driving 
Like he said secret recipes


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## brikosig (Dec 16, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> *B. *
> -Driver runs 2 phones. One for Lyft app. One for Uber app. Both best of breed with high speed feeds. Cost $160 per month.
> -Driver has commercial insurance that runs $315 per month more than previous std. personal auto policy.
> -Driver drives enough TNC miles to guarantee going through one new set of Michelin's for XL ride per year which cost $1200 to replace.
> ...


$275 - $300 for each tire??.... You need to buy your tires online and find a more reasonable place to get your oil changed. ...better yet do it yourself for $50..... with full synthetic oil.... takes about 20 mins. Faster then getting it done at a garage/dealer.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

brikosig said:


> $275 - $300 for each tire??.... You need to buy your tires online and find a more reasonable place to get your oil changed. ...better yet do it yourself for $50..... with full synthetic oil.... takes about 20 mins. Faster then getting it done at a garage/dealer.


It's a math test. If you wanna run retreads knock yerself out. And do you run 8 plys on yer car? probably not. 15 quart oil changes and having to deal with the leftovers is a waste of my time.

Maybe you missed some of the details?


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## Monica rodriguez (Nov 16, 2014)

Plus the time he spent driving!


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## brikosig (Dec 16, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> It's a math test. If you wanna run retreads knock yerself out. And do you run 8 plys on yer car? probably not. 15 quart oil changes and having to deal with the leftovers is a waste of my time.
> 
> Maybe you missed some of the details?


I wasn't trying to be a smart-ass.... Just as an FYI to everyone.... if you need new rubber check out Tirerack.com. For the XL drivers out there you can get a high-quality Name brand tire for $150-200 ea. For us (sport) sedan drivers the deals are even better...$125 -150 for some great rubber. Have them delivered to your local garage (tire rack has recommended shops if you don't have one) and get'm balanced and mounted for $30 ea. For 6 qts of oil in an XL ... in most states garages are required to take the oil from you.... they'll charge you $3. You're essentially saving/making $50 for a 1/2 hr of simple work by changing it yourself.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

brikosig said:


> I wasn't trying to be a smart-ass.... Just as an FYI to everyone.... if you need new rubber check out Tirerack.com. For the XL drivers out there you can get a high-quality Name brand tire for $150-200 ea. For us (sport) sedan drivers the deals are even better...$125 -150 for some great rubber. Have them delivered to your local garage (tire rack has recommended shops if you don't have one) and get'm balanced and mounted for $30 ea. For 6 qts of oil in an XL ... in most states garages are required to take the oil from you.... they'll charge you $3. You're essentially saving/making $50 for a 1/2 hr of simple work by changing it yourself.


There are pro's and con's to buying online. My last set of Michelins (not available on Tirerack.com) weren't wearing properly. I had 50,000 miles on 70,000 mile rated tires. Costco gave me a new set, installed for $500. Normally $1200. Sometimes on sale for $1050. Unlikely to find the same warranty service online. Costco rotates them every 7500 miles. Nitrogen filled, road hazard. Service and warranty means a lot for me on tires, obviously. The closest Tirerack set is north of $920 with shipping and install. Haul them. Find a station. See if that $30 a tire is going to get lifetime rotation, nitrogen, road hazard, etc etc. Not even worth the potential headache. Same with oil changes. I run manufacturers synth blend. 2 filters. 15 qts. Can't even buy the oil and filters for what the local dealer changes them out for and runs checks on the vehicle, see how the brakes are looking, etc etc. I ain't interested in dicking around for pennies. It won't make a difference that matters in the math quotients here.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

I do hear Costco is the best for tires. But that's another thread. And I agree road hazard warranty is a must. It saved my ass this weekend.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Tires- another pro for being legit.
I drive a taxi or livery into a local tire shop I get just above wholesale.
why? He knows I just might go through two full sets per year. EVERy year. For the rest of my career.
and if he hooks me up? It's his business for life.
or, "hey I need tires for my UberX car can you hook me up?"
"Looks like a Nissan Altima with private plates. Your full retail quote is... $ Xxx.xx per, mounted and balanced! "

I get all kinds of perks being legit.
just for being legit!


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Tires- another pro for being legit.
> I drive a taxi or livery into a local tire shop I get just above wholesale.
> why? He knows I just might go through two full sets per year. EVERy year. For the rest of my career.
> and if he hooks me up? It's his business for life.
> ...


Taxi Drivers here get car washes for $7 instead of the standard $10. $10 for full inside out instead of $18 for the rest of us. I tell you I'm going to just get my Taxi license for all the perks and forget about driving. It's like being part of a secret savings club.


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## ExpAwesome (Mar 15, 2015)

Question B is ridiculous. Why pay for two data plans when you can pay for one, then make it a hotspot and have data on both devices? 

Or just use one device for it all, not that hard. Maybe it is if you use an iPhone which still sucks at multitasking.

Either way, driver B sounds like an idiot.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

ExpAwesome said:


> Question B is ridiculous. Why pay for two data plans when you can pay for one, then make it a hotspot and have data on both devices?
> 
> Or just use one device for it all, not that hard. Maybe it is if you use an iPhone which still sucks at multitasking.
> 
> Either way, *driver B sounds like an idiot*.


*Or you're talking out yer ass. * Start a separate thread on the subject if you want to examine the merits of dual phones or not. You're probably the same driver who thinks having commercial insurance is stupid too.


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## ExpAwesome (Mar 15, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> *Or you're talking out yer ass. * Start a separate thread on the subject if you want to examine the merits of dual phones or not. You're probably the same driver who thinks having commercial insurance is stupid too.


Am I? This is relevant as I am calling bullshit on your math problem since driver B can't complain about not making money when they waste it on shit like multiple data plans. If you NEED two phones, just make a hotspot with one to give the other data.

And no, I'm not whoever you are thinking about


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

ExpAwesome said:


> Am I? This is relevant as I am calling bullshit on your math problem since driver B can't complain about not making money when they waste it on shit like multiple data plans. If you NEED two phones, just make a hotspot with one to give the other data.
> 
> And no, I'm not whoever you are thinking about


So your math is right and you cut down the min. fare requirement to 257 from 282. Bow wow!


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

brikosig said:


> Name brand tire for $150-200 ea... get'm balanced and mounted for $30 ea.


Love how you just quoted me the price I recently paid for 4 new Michelin, high-quality tires, 70k mile rated, from Discount Tire as if it's a better deal, despite the additional hassle. And DT comes with free rotate and balance for the life of the tires. For an extra $170 I could have added road hazard warranties on all four.

Doesn't sound like buying online is that much better of a deal than simply shopping around. Especially if you consider that DT will also match tire prices.

I'll throw in the fact that they also had a $170 in mail in rebates if I used their credit card for the purchase. Which also came with 0% interest for 6 months, allowing me to break up the payment for the tires.


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## brikosig (Dec 16, 2014)

duggles said:


> Love how you just quoted me the price I recently paid for 4 new Michelin, high-quality tires, 70k mile rated, from Discount Tire as if it's a better deal, despite the additional hassle. And DT comes with free rotate and balance for the life of the tires. For an extra $170 I could have added road hazard warranties on all four.
> 
> Doesn't sound like buying online is that much better of a deal than simply shopping around. Especially if you consider that DT will also match tire prices.
> 
> I'll throw in the fact that they also had a $170 in mail in rebates if I used their credit card for the purchase. Which also came with 0% interest for 6 months, allowing me to break up the payment for the tires.


The numbers I was using were a comparison to the $1,200 that scrurb mentioned..... i recognize that there are other decent places to purchase rubber. One of the MAIN reasons why some of the local retail stores lowered their prices a bunch of years ago was because they were pretty much forced into matching the prices online. They were losing a ton of bidniz to tire rack and discount tire online.

I would also add... the one and only time I tried to get the "matching price" deal was from town (un-)fair tire. Called to find out if they had the specific tires I wanted.... they said Yes so I made an appt to get the tires but when I got there they didn't have them. They tried to talk me into an inferior model tire that was "equal" ....which it wasn't....I'm a car geek and I know tires... the tires they were trying to substitute were crap. I forced them to put the exact tires I wanted on my car.... and *****ed so much about their bait-and-switch tactics that they both lowered the price and gave me a free 4-wheel alignment. I've been buying from the tire rack for 10+ yrs.... i'll stick with them.


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

I like the math problems thread. Not sure why all cant get along?  We could start a thread on how to save money in the future.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Awww...I started to like this thread when we went off topic. I was falling asleep in my spreadsheets with the other stuff.


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

Here is off topic for you @Actionjax


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberCemetery said:


> Here is off topic for you @Actionjax


I would get hurt with all of them. But thanks for sharing.


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> I would get hurt with all of them. But thanks for sharing.


You or I could not afford them as a Uber driver's. Opps back on topic LOL.


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## duggles (Aug 25, 2014)

UberCemetery said:


> Here is off topic for you @Actionjax


If they asked me to fit 5 of them in my 4 pax vehicle, I would happily oblige. Two up front, ladies, that's where the most room is available.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberCemetery said:


> You or I could not afford them as a Uber driver's. Opps back on topic LOL.


Good thing I have all I could ever want in my relationship. These girls have nothing on her.


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## sectokia (Mar 25, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> For the math challenged Uber drivers, can you determine the correct answer to these driving equations?
> 
> *A.*
> Trip from the airport. Edge of city. Trip out of city into a rural area where no possibility of return trip or a complete waste of time waiting for that remote possibility.
> ...


I find it interesting how the numbers can vary per country. For example the same trip in Australia pays a fair of $1.4 per km, plus $2.50, plus $0.40 per minute.

So assuming this trip took 60 minutes, the fair here is $126.60, $101.28 after ubers cut. Our tax deduction is 76c per km. So the cost of vehicle is $117.04. We lose $15.76.

I will pay 30% of the money earned in income tax = $30.384. However I deduct $117.04 from income saving me $35.112 in tax.

So the net loss is $11.03

Now comes the part over if or not $0.76/km matches real vehicle costs... which it does not once you factor in the extra insurance needed.


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## JON L (Mar 25, 2015)

osman tanvir said:


> After driving for lyft and uber it gave me an idea of how the ride sharing platform works. Trust me guys the only people making money out of this are UBER and lyft not you.
> I come from an accounting background and it didn't take me long to calculate the depreciating value of my car, tires, wear and tear and insurance etc. The actual cost to me was $1.20/mile but could vary in your case so how can one possibly make money at $0.75/mile?
> There is not much of a difference between cab companies and uber, they both make money by abusing their clientele... For taxi cabs, it's the passengers. For uber and lyft; their drivers.


Actually your wrong...your car, tires, wear and tear and insurance etc, will occur whether or not you work a 9-5 job or Uber...just varying degrees. Uber is not a get rich scheme..but it does provide above average wage and the ability to set your own hours. Just sayin'


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

JON L said:


> Actually your wrong...your car, tires, wear and tear and insurance etc, will occur whether or not you work a 9-5 job or Uber...just varying degrees. Uber is not a get rich scheme..but it does provide above average wage and the ability to set your own hours. Just sayin'


Oh look honey! Another I ain't gots no costs but gas guy.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

sectokia said:


> I find it interesting how the numbers can vary per country. For example the same trip in Australia pays a fair of $1.4 per km, plus $2.50, plus $0.40 per minute.
> 
> So assuming this trip took 60 minutes, the fair here is $126.60, $101.28 after ubers cut. Our tax deduction is 76c per km. So the cost of vehicle is $117.04. We lose $15.76.
> 
> ...


Interesting number sets. Most of us would wet our pants for $1.40 a km which translates to about $2.33 per mile here. We'd all be getting drunk together once a week in riotous celebration.

Our kilometer pay is about 54 cents per km.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Taxi Drivers here get car washes for $7 instead of the standard $10. $10 for full inside out instead of $18 for the rest of us. I tell you I'm going to just get my Taxi license for all the perks and forget about driving. It's like being part of a secret savings club.


Some time no parking tickets more savings , forgot maybe a free stale donut with the purchase of a small coffe 
Perks priceless


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

20yearsdriving said:


> Some time no parking tickets more savings , forgot maybe a free stale donut with the purchase of a small coffe
> Perks priceless


Parking in the financial district at the back of the cabstand, off duty sign duly posted.
yuppies would kill for that shit!
Also the time two weeks ago where I was wearing a suit to attend the Anti Uber hearing, which got cancelled (due to Uber execs being as powerful as minor dieties in this neck o the woods), and sitting NEXT to my taxi on a bench, looking like a middle aged exec with money and power...confusing the young women in search of Mr. Goodbar. NO women smile at me when I lean ON my cab.
the irony was palpable.


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## sectokia (Mar 25, 2015)

I think what needs to be realised is the economic reality of Uber driving.

The majority of the population can drive and have a decent car. The majority also have jobs already and live in a world of strong regulation especially over labor hours. This generally means that peoples time outside of work hours is worthless - as they are not able to find employment for a few extra hours. The result of this is that people are willing to do something outside of their work hours even if it earns them $1/hr or less. There time is worthless anyway, so anything >$0/hr - they will do it.

The result of this is that the price will tend towards $0/hr, and it will even go below $0/hr because of the complexity around properly calculating in vehicle costs.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

sectokia said:


> I think what needs to be realised is the economic reality of Uber driving.
> 
> The majority of the population can drive and have a decent car. The majority also have jobs already and live in a world of strong regulation especially over labor hours. This generally means that peoples time outside of work hours is worthless - as they are not able to find employment for a few extra hours. The result of this is that people are willing to do something outside of their work hours even if it earns them $1/hr or less. There time is worthless anyway, so anything >$0/hr - they will do it.
> 
> The result of this is that the price will tend towards $0/hr, and it will even go below $0/hr because of the complexity around properly calculating in vehicle costs.


Fail!
There is no complexity in calculating vehicle costs.
every DEBIT associated with the vehicle is COST. 
one TALLYS these COSTS in four timetables; 
Daily
weekly
monthly
annually

Basis is a bit more complicated, but there are IRS tables for that.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> For the math challenged Uber drivers, can you determine the correct answer to these driving equations?
> 
> *A.*
> Trip from the airport. Edge of city. Trip out of city into a rural area where no possibility of return trip or a complete waste of time waiting for that remote possibility.
> ...


Driver loses -$3.52


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

sectokia said:


> I think what needs to be realised is the economic reality of Uber driving.
> 
> The majority of the population can drive and have a decent car. The majority also have jobs already and live in a world of strong regulation especially over labor hours. This generally means that peoples time outside of work hours is worthless - as they are not able to find employment for a few extra hours. The result of this is that people are willing to do something outside of their work hours even if it earns them $1/hr or less. There time is worthless anyway, so anything >$0/hr - they will do it.
> 
> The result of this is that the price will tend towards $0/hr, and it will even go below $0/hr because of the complexity around properly calculating in vehicle costs.


 Right, the true return after all expenses properly accounted for (some deffered) is already negative, in any city below $1.30/mile. Only those in desperate need of cashflow will drive at these rates. You are LOSING $ to drive UberX, period! There is no "hourly wage earned", you are just selling your car "in little pieces" at a 50% discount! Just say NO! Stop the INSANITY!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> *B. *
> -Driver runs 2 phones. One for Lyft app. One for Uber app. Both best of breed with high speed feeds. Cost $160 per month.
> -Driver has commercial insurance that runs $315 per month more than previous std. personal auto policy.
> -Driver drives enough TNC miles to guarantee going through one new set of Michelin's for XL ride per year which cost $1200 to replace.
> ...


281.25. But, no need for 2 phones, I run both platforms and toggle on same phone, plus I wouldnt even count my phone cuz I would have it anyway (unlimited data). I pay $29 for my oil changes, which includes a free car wash. None of this matters cuz you lose money at this gig even without proper insurance! :-(


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> *Question C.*
> 
> A new driver decides to give UberX his all. He drives 7 days a week, an average of 14 hours a day for those 7 days and grosses $1900. before Uber's cut. To do that the driver provided 140 total fares for the week. He did not turn down any pings, even ones with longer distances to pax pickups.
> 
> ...


$4.48/hr, Burger King is waaaay better! (With no risks!)


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> Few of us would take any publicized Uber report of facts as accurate, generally speaking.
> 
> The general gist of that chart SEEMS to show that the more hours you work, the (slightly) more you make.
> 
> I would not consider that truthful for TNC driving.


Remember, we cant use the term "make" when we're really probably "netting" a loss. Also, NYC is the highest grossing city, but they have HUGE insurance and limo lic. requirements, so "gross per hour" means nothing. The rest of the country, post rate cut is losing money!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Actionjax said:


> Based on my experience this does hold true. Call it what you will but unless you can provide evidence this is inaccurate then I'm all ears.
> 
> But I think we are actually talking the same thing. The more hours you work the more stable your per/h rate becomes and in the end you can only make so much. It's not I made $30 per hour for 10 hours and now I worked 60 hours it will be the same. It drops to account for swings in the type of driving and the times you do it.
> 
> Figured this was just logical.


Remember, we cant use the term "make" when we're really probably "netting" a loss. Also, NYC is the highest grossing city, but they have HUGE insurance and limo lic. requirements, so "gross per hour" means nothing. The rest of the country, post rate cut is losing money!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> *Question E*
> 
> Driver in questions C and D can't really believe his own eyes on the math after Uber's rate cut and thinking Uber CAN'T be that stupid takes a day, just a day, to commit his all into trying to make an hourly wage under the new improved driver pay rate of 90 cents a mile and 16 cents per min. He disregards the drop fee, thinking it's not long for life and never made much difference in the equations to start with. And he's never taken the guarantees having exceeded them in the past during the hours they were paid anyway.
> 
> ...


 $3.45/hr.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

JON L said:


> Actually your wrong...your car, tires, wear and tear and insurance etc, will occur whether or not you work a 9-5 job or Uber...just varying degrees. Uber is not a get rich scheme..but it does provide above average wage and the ability to set your own hours. Just sayin'


Yup, its official, Ur one of the idiots that Travis is looking for!
"I already had a car anyway". Everything you just said is totally wrong. First off, we dont put insurance into our op. Cost, cuz yes, we would have to have that anyway. But every other single cost is exactly incrimental to the extra mile spent Ubering. It absolutely doesnt provide an "above average wage", it provides a LOSS! You are turning a blind eye to true total expenses (some deferred). Thats exactly what the evil Travis wants, "I already had a car". You are using your car up twice as fast by Ubering, dummy! There is no profit or true hourly wage earned by driving Uber. You mistakenly see cash flow above gas$ as profit, and an hourly wage earned. But, its not, you are just selling your car off in little pieces! Its no different than selling all your furniture, you wouldnt call that an hourly wage earned!


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Great post, USFD.
Sadly, we
can't fix stupid.

On an up note, my franchise provided $170 or so worth of DSS clients for me to transport in my taxi tomorrow.
instead of watching soulless Millennials Ubering impatiently 2 inches from my cabstand, hoping beyond hope that their UberSlave will show soon for .75 per mile and no tip...
The $170 is post comission. Only big issue is itl eat a full tank of gas. Will put me at just over $100 profit for the day.
REAL profit, not fantasy denial Uber fantasy league profit


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## Jim Campbell (Mar 27, 2015)

scrurbscrud said:


> For the math challenged Uber drivers, can you determine the correct answer to these driving equations?
> 
> *A.*
> Trip from the airport. Edge of city. Trip out of city into a rural area where no possibility of return trip or a complete waste of time waiting for that remote possibility.
> ...


96 total miles driven X $0.57 per mile expenses = $54.72 expenses... $65.00 fare $10.28 profit for driver then I would divide the 96 total miles by say 60 mph so I spent 1.6 hours driving there and back So $10.28 profit divided by 1.6 hours = $6.43 per hour pay to the driver after expenses.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Jim Campbell said:


> 96 total miles driven X $0.57 per mile expenses = $54.72 expenses... $65.00 fare $10.28 profit for driver then I would divide the 96 total miles by say 60 mph so I spent 1.6 hours driving there and back So $10.28 profit divided by 1.6 hours = $6.43 per hour pay to the driver after expenses.


Nope, horrible attempt. Somehow you forgot both the $1 SRF and UBER COMMISSION! So its $64 x .8 = $51.20, driver LOSES -$3.52. The question never even asked for a per hour solve, but it is NEGATIVE! He even told you up front that it was a loss ... Dumb dumb (Ur probably one of the idiots still driving for Uber! LOL)


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

Everyone describes everything differently. As someone that has a lifestyle of buying high and selling low. To 'sell my car a piece at a time' is an improvement. 99.9% of cars sold the last 80 years turn to worthlessness. All cars are toys. Adults know to pay cash for toys. I paid $10,000 cash for a 2012 car last July. I have the money back and in the bank. (after 6 months of UberX in a always weekend surge college town with gaurantees for Mon-Thur nights calculated DAILY not weekly) If the car survives 6 years that is profit. If it doesn't, I'll find something else to do. Love the work when I want to features. Investing is simple, pay cash for something today that someone really wants later. These folks really want to ride in my car. I just don't see the way that I am losing here. Of coarse, being debt free and having no bills helps. Andy Stanley's findbreathing room.org and Dave Ramsey's Baby steps 1-3 help me finally stop living paycheck to paycheck if anyone cares to find out for themselves what making an emergency fund a priority can do.


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

If you are not willing to learn, no one can help you; if you are determined to learn, no one can stop you. ---- Zig Ziglar----


'Not everyone lives paycheck to paycheck'.... my manager when I was 30 in 1999 and convinced everyone was like me and was living paycheck to paycheck. I was too shy to ask him to explain himself. In 2010, Dave Ramsey did explain it to me how to stop living paycheck to paycheck.


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

Will $1000.00 change your life? Work a little more and spend a little less until you have $100.00... Then do it 9 more times and you have changed your life. You will never have $10,000.00 in the bank until you have taught yourself how to have $1000.00 in the bank.


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## Orion (May 8, 2015)

Let me start off by saying I'm new to this (actually just about to start Uber), so I don't have any industry info other than from friends; but I do understand basic math, and yours seems off... So I'm gonna break it down, cool? Cool.

Question C has a few problems, *mostly Surge/Guarantees (which you ignore)*, Mileage and Taxes, let's start with *Mileage*.

You list 1700 miles over 98 hours, or 17 miles driven per hour, which assumes quite a lot of "off time".

*Taxes*, which you seem to be confusing with income. The US Government allows a *Deduction* of $0.575 per mile for gas/maintenance/devaluation, but that doesn't mean each mile costs $0.575.

The biggest issue you have is with devaluation, which you seem to be treating as in infinite cost. The simple fact is that *an item cannot devalue more than it's purchase price*. Now, the tax code doesn't consider that (Which is what we call a "*Tax Loophole*", see below).

Now that we're cleared up those issues I'll restate Driver C's situation.

*Question C (Revised to accuracy)*:

A new driver decides to give UberX his all. In preparation for this he purchases a work vehicle. He sees that the city he lives in allows vehicles as old as 2000, and he decides on a *2002 Honda Civic for $2,400* (decent gas mileage, and the cheapest part costs in the US).

He drives 7 days a week, an average of 14 hours a day for those 7 days and grosses $1900 over 98 hours. before Uber's cut. To do that the driver provided 140 total fares for the week.

*($1900-140) * 0.8 = $1408 / 98 = $14.36 per hour (after Uber's cut)*

In reviewing his mileage total he put 1700 total miles on his vehicle. He sits down to do the math using the IRS calculation for mileage costs.

*$1408 - (1700 * 0.575) = 430.5 / 98 = $4.39 per hour*

He begins to get angry, before realizing that the 0.575 is an infinite number on paper, not in reality, and he breaks it down. Each week $977.5 is put aside for gas/maint/deval (800 after gas).

*Week 1: $800 put aside
Week 2: $1600 put aside
Week 3: $2400 put aside*

at the end of week 3 Driver C's *car has "devalued" to $0*, it's fully repaid, meaning every day until it falls apart is pure profit (minus gas/maint). He does the math himself and decides the per mile cost without devaluation is roughly $0.25 per mile; $0.10 ($170/wk) for gas and $0.15 (255/wk) for upkeep, which is still enough to change the oil and fix at least 1 break each week until the head/****** die. His POST REPAYMENT math looks like this.

*$1408 - (1700 * 0.25) = 983 / 98 = $11.766 per hour*

*Driver C is now making $11 per hour* with his work vehicle completely repaid, he can repair it when needed using the $0.15 per mile fund, or simply junk it for $500 and buy a new vehicle if a part breaks that's not worth the cost to fix *(even smarter, he can buy the same model car, and keep the first as an organ doner to reduce part costs)*

Now 1 think you did get write is *Taxable income*, thanks to "infinite devaluation" $4.39 per hour is all the Government can touch, but that doesn't mean it's all he gets to keep; which means he'll actually have *more money than a normal employee with the same $11 hourly wage.*

*And again, this math ignores Surges.*

Now, if the same driver used a $25000 car then they'd be hit much harder by devaluation, but that's the same thing that happens when a restaurant spends more than they're making on ingredients. Either use the tools in your profitability range or move to a different market .

*Question D:* is invalid since it seems to ignore surges (and the abnormally high hours)

*($1900 * 0.7) = $1330 Gross.

($1300 - 140) * 0.8 = $952 after Uber Cut ($9.71 per hour)*

*$952- (1700 * 0.575) = -$25*


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Orion said:


> Let me start off by saying I'm new to this (actually just about to start Uber), so I don't have any industry info other than from friends; but I do understand basic math, and yours seems off... So I'm gonna break it down, cool? Cool.
> 
> Question C has a few problems, *mostly Surge/Guarantees (which you ignore)*, Mileage and Taxes, let's start with *Mileage*.
> 
> ...


LOL Wow thats a really creative scenario! But ... You've missed one huge, massive really critical point. Shortly into your rosy plan you get deactivated for having the lowest rating in the country, cuz ... NOBODY WANTS TO RIDE IN YOUR 2002 CIVIC BEATER SHITBOX! The plan sounded good on paper though! LOL
Plus you failed to include the ginormous cost of commercial livery insurance to do this gig legal & proper. The insurance cost more than your stupid beater car!
Uber is a loser now for drivers any way you slice it. Nobody is really "making" any money at this, they are just selling their car off in little pieces.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers! (Jan 1, 2015)

Orion said:


> Let me start off by saying I'm new to this (actually just about to start Uber), so I don't have any industry info other than from friends; but I do understand basic math, and yours seems off... So I'm gonna break it down, cool? Cool.
> 
> Question C has a few problems, *mostly Surge/Guarantees (which you ignore)*, Mileage and Taxes, let's start with *Mileage*.
> 
> ...


The other big flaw was that this was just an example/excercise, and there is no way to gross $1900 on 1700 miles in any of the 30 major market cities that are now at $.75 cents per mile. Remember, you're going to average 50% dead (unpaid) miles. You're not just going to be always on a paid fare, and forget any surging, thats mostly a myth. So 1700 miles x .5 = 850 paid miles x $.75 = $640, and 50 (paid) hours, or 3000 minutes x $.15 = $450. $1090 x .8 = $872 - $425 (your rediculously low cost to drive your beater that nobody wants to ride in) = $447/98 = $4.50/hr. Burger King is waaaay better! Now, you cant even walk cuz you lived in your beater for 98 hours! Yes, it does actually cost $.57/ mile to drive 
a real car, and maintain a 4.9 rating. But thats $969, so you actually LOSE $100, or -$1/hr. Aaaaarg. Dont even start driving Uber, get a new plan!


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Orion, just try driving 14 hours a day, seven days a week and see how you feel. You will very quickly find that your car needs all kinds of repair work. The repairs, with from that kind of use on a car that old, could be fairly major. It wont simply be a matter of money, time will be a big factor. How quickly can you get it fixed?

Driving that much, is a whole different ball game. I doubt it is even legal to drive a fourteen hours shift, but I suppose within the rideshare mode of working it doesn't really matter.


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