# I Only Issue a 1* or 5*



## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Very simple formula:
Cash tip = 5*
No cash tip = 1*
PS: please no bs about possible tips via the app at a later time. IDGAF! 
Ca$h talks, everything else walks!


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## Cvillegordo (Oct 30, 2019)

Your right I suppose; but an expectation of tips, and subsequent penalties for the 90%+ of pax who don't tip, seems petty and retaliatory.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

I as well only 1 star or 5 star, but for different reasons.

I've probably 1 starred at least 400 people in my town of around 25K, because they just wanted a ride to somewhere else in our small town (to walmart, to Kroger, to the doctor, etc, etc....). I live on the outskirts of this small town, so for me to drive 3 to 5 miles to pick them up for a 1 to 3 mile ride is a net loss for me every single time, especially since the ride requests are so infrequent here that I have to drive home another 3 to 5 miles because I'm not going to sit for hours waiting in my car for the next ride. Local rides pay me $3 for typically around 30 minutes of my time and 8 miles on my car. Even if I did make a profit on them, it would be pennies for 30 minutes of work. So I 1 star them so I never get their requests again.

This way, the number of trips I get going 30+ miles into the major city that our small town is near exceeds the number of local trips I get. I 5 star every non-local trip, even when they don't tip. I average $30+ an hour when I'm driving with this strategy as the trip into the major city is a 70 MPH highway.

All I need is 7 to 10 trips into the city per week, and combined with doing Doordash for 15 to 20 hours per week, I make $800+ per week for about 30 hours of work.

If I didn't do the 1 star blacklisting trick, I would be wasting way too much time make $3 in a half an hour with 8 miles of costs, and could never make a living with Uber at all. If I was a couple of blocks away from the pickup and could just wait in my car after the drop off, then I could see some profitability in minimum fare rides... maybe even a decent profit. But seriously, all things have to unfold perfectly to make profit on $3 rides. And in my town of 25K, those things never unfold perfectly.... EVER! I have no choice but to 1 star those riders.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> [HEADING=2]I Only Issue a 1*[/HEADING]


Me too


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Very simple formula:
> Cash tip = 5*
> No cash tip = 1*
> PS: please no bs about possible tips via the app at a later time. IDGAF!
> Ca$h talks, everything else walks!


I hope you live in a major metropolitan area or you'll quickly run out of pax to be matched with! :roflmao:


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Cash tip = 5*
> No cash tip = 1*


While I have not read this complaint in some time, I did see it from two or three drivers. They complained that either Uber or Lyft had de-activated them for issuing numerous one stars. The one thing consistent, with one exception, was that the cash tip,. or lack thereof, determined what rating they issued. There was one driver who was one-starring every one.



UberHammer said:


> I 1 star them so I never get their requests again.


I have heard and read commentary that if you one star them on Uber, you never get them again. I have heard and read commentary that this is not the case. It might be a market thing.

I do know that on Lyft, it is the case. If you rate three or less, you never see them, again. I even have my "prophylactic three stars" on Lyft. Customers who are otherwise acceptable, but, I do not like their destination,. get three stars. Under normal circumstances, I would three star customers with real service dogs, as I do not like having to spend the time (READ: money) Dustbusting after their shedding dog, but, I do not want Karma to bite me in the [donkey], so, I give them a fair rating. Obviously fake service dogs do, however, earn an automatic one star.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

An Uber rep told me issuing a 1⭐ to a rider will not unpair you from a rider. You have to contact Uber and request never to be paired with the rider again. What had me contact them was an incident where I gave a 1⭐to a rider and reported them for being rude and unsafe. A few days I got a pick-up request for them again.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Cvillegordo said:


> Your right I suppose; but an expectation of tips, and subsequent penalties for the 90%+ of pax who don't tip, seems petty and retaliatory.


The entire ratings system is just that, petty and retaliatory!



Seamus said:


> I hope you live in a major metropolitan area or you'll quickly run out of pax to be matched with! :roflmao:


Yes, I do!



Another Uber Driver said:


> While I have not read this complaint in some time, I did see it from two or three drivers. They complained that either Uber or Lyft had de-activated them for issuing numerous one stars


Complete nonsense. I have used this system for 3+ years. No issues. Simply said, how you rate has nothing to do with being deactivated.


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## hooj (Aug 18, 2018)

Everyone gets a 5* and it goes down from there; for anything from bad vibes, to asking for a stop/drive thru, rudeness, acting like a GPS, etc.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> An Uber rep told me issuing a 1⭐ to a rider will not unpair you from a rider. You have to contact Uber and request never to be paired with the rider again. What had me contact them was an incident where I gave a 1⭐to a rider and reported them for being rude and unsafe. A few days I got a pick-up request for them again.


I called Uber to report a rude pax, and asked them to never pair me with that pax again. A week later, I got a ping on LYFT from that same pax. I accepted it, drove to his house, then cancelled the ride.


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## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

Illini said:


> I called Uber to report a rude pax, and asked them to never pair me with that pax again. A week later, I got a ping on LYFT from that same pax. I accepted it, drove to his house, then cancelled the rid


I keep a log of addresses and names, I don't want to go back to.Sometimes I wont pick anyone up at an address after I log it.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> No cash tip = 1*


um, er, ah, ahem: so if they do tip in the app; an appropriate amount, do you have any any any any regrets? At all?

<sigh>

yet another reason to ignore pax ratings in determining to take a ping.


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## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

I hate the whole psychological game uber has set up.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

SHalester said:


> um, er, ah, ahem: so if they do tip in the app; an appropriate amount, do you have any any any any regrets? At all?
> 
> <sigh>
> 
> yet another reason to ignore pax ratings in determining to take a ping.


To a certain extent, I do. That said however, Uber is the one to blame, not me.

That too!


hooj said:


> Everyone gets a 5* and it goes down from there; for anything from bad vibes, to asking for a stop/drive thru, rudeness, acting like a GPS, etc.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

SHalester said:


> um, er, ah, ahem: so if they do tip in the app; an appropriate amount, do you have any any any any regrets? At all?
> 
> <sigh>
> 
> yet another reason to ignore pax ratings in determining to take a ping.


I pretty much ignore the PAX ratting as well.

I have posted this before, here is the rating system I would like to see Uber and Lyft use:

Both riders and drivers will need to answer before requesting or accepting next trip.

*Rider:*
Would you ride with this driver again?

Yes: Thank you have a nice day.
No: Warning! Selecting no will flag this driver for never being matched with you again in the future. This could affect your wait time for future ride requests.
Continue with no?

Yes: Thank you, you will no longer be paired with this driver.​
No: Cancels and takes rider back to original question.​



*Driver:*
Would you drive this rider again?

Yes: Thank you have a nice day.
No: Warning! Selecting no will flag this rider for never being matched with you again in the future. This could affect the number of ride requests you receive in the future.
Continue with no?

Yes: Thank you, you will no longer be paired with this rider.​
No: Cancels and takes rider back to original question.​



Driver and rider ratings would show as a lifetime percentage rating based on the percentage of Yes and No's received by the Driver or Rider.

Also a system needs to be put in place that keeps riders from creating new accounts to start their ratings over. Doubt that will ever happen as it would most likely need to be based of SS# and that would have security issues.


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## goliver28 (Feb 7, 2019)

A lot of passengers don’t tip and majority tip through the app. I’m gonna be honest about something: it’s really petty to give 1 star because of no tip.


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## Wex (Feb 18, 2019)

Everyone gets 5 stars. If the ride is decent and they tip, I'm cool. If it's a minimum fare ride and no tip then I report the rider as rude. I only tell Uber not to match me again. I even do it on uber eats orders. At this point the rest of you pickle packers can sort them out.


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## Bulls23 (Sep 4, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Very simple formula:
> Cash tip = 5*
> No cash tip = 1*
> PS: please no bs about possible tips via the app at a later time. IDGAF!
> Ca$h talks, everything else walks!


I do the same with Lyft. Cash tips are not really a deal breaker considering I get those every once in a while.



goliver28 said:


> A lot of passengers don't tip and majority tip through the app. I'm gonna be honest about something: it's really petty to give 1 star because of no tip.


No tipping is what really petty. We are "karma ambassadors" ..


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> Doubt that will ever happen as it would most likely need to be based of SS# and that would have security issues.


actually it would be simple: go by credit card number. Once used for an account, it can't be used for any other accounts......ever.... but yes most have multiple credit cards, but it would slow them down...eventually.

as a pax, tho, Uber doesn't require my SS and I ain't coughing it up.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Complete nonsense. I have used this system for 3+ years. No issues. Simply said, how you rate has nothing to do with being deactivated.


I report only what I have read. While I made no comment on whether or not I believed them, it is worthy of note that they had no reason to fabricate this. These _were_ established posters, at the time, so I ruled out the "troll" possibility.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> it is worthy of note that they had no reason to fabricate this.


you must have a much higher percent of what you believe is posted =here= than I do. And mine is due to knowing when the 'stories' change over time from the 'regular' posters.......

And on this: I can see a pax complaining about a low rating (no tip in cash) and if said driver had a few of those, that would be it for them.

Sometimes, all it takes is pax complaining.....and that is that. Don't upset the paying customers.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

SHalester said:


> you must have a much higher percent of what you believe is posted =here= than I do.


....................not necessarily........................year in this business has taught me when, where and how to spot the OOM-WAH-WAH. One thing for which you look is any reason that someone might have to fabricate something. If you can not find one, you believe it until it is proved false.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> If you can not find one, you believe it until it is proved false.


yeah, not for me and that is based on experience HERE. So, I have my 70% filter in place most times. Over months it's not hard to spot 'em.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Very simple formula:
> Cash tip = 5*
> No cash tip = 1*
> PS: please no bs about possible tips via the app at a later time. IDGAF!
> Ca$h talks, everything else walks!


Depends on style and area
Usually I only do large surge rides 5-6-7
Our average ride here is 3.8 ish
When I get seven bucks extra I want to see the person again and I don't care if they tip


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

SHalester said:


> you must have a much higher percent of what you believe is posted =here= than I do. And mine is due to knowing when the 'stories' change over time from the 'regular' posters.......
> 
> And on this: I can see a pax complaining about a low rating (no tip in cash) and if said driver had a few of those, that would be it for them.
> 
> Sometimes, all it takes is pax complaining.....and that is that. Don't upset the paying customers.


And what is your confirming source on this?.......Exactly. I justlove how some people here think they know so much about Uber's T.O.S.



Bulls23 said:


> I do the same with Lyft. Cash tips are not really a deal breaker considering I get those every once in a while.
> 
> 
> No tipping is what really petty. We are "karma ambassadors" .. :biggrin:


Karma! OMG! Really? 
How gullible can one be?


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

*Me Too!*

Everyone gets a 5 star unless I do not want their money ever again. I am running a business, and that business is not judging people.
Dangerous or rude 1*n

The whole ratings thing is a big fing scam anyways.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Pax can be more likely to retaliate with low ratings or complaints if you rate them down so I keep it simple.

How I rate:

On Uber:
5* = I got you to your destination successfully and you didn't promise to 1* rate me or file a complaint against me.
1* = I kicked you out of my car (including if you promise to 1* rate me or file a complaint against me).

On Lyft:
5* = I got you to your destination successfully and I'd be willing to drive you again.
3* = I don't want to see you again.
1* = I kicked you out.


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## Wex (Feb 18, 2019)

5 stars and tell them they can go pack pickles. Small market where I'm at now with repeat customers frequently. This weeds them out.


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## Bulls23 (Sep 4, 2015)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> And what is your confirming source on this?.......Exactly. I justlove how some people here think they know so much about Uber's T.O.S.
> 
> 
> Karma! OMG! Really?
> How gullible can one be?


Here is your like:


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> And what is your confirming source on this?


on not pissing off the paying customer? Ah, er, ahem: Common sense. Business 101.

Is that enough for you? I'm here most days.



Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> I justlove how some people here think they know so much about Uber's T.O.S.


......those with brain cells that spark can just read 'em. You know.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

SHalester said:


> on not pissing off the paying customer? Ah, er, ahem: Common sense. Business 101.
> 
> Is that enough for you? I'm here most days.
> 
> ...


To answer your curiosities, yes I'm wiser than you, and make more money. Goodbye!


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> yes I'm wiser than you, and make more money.


I doubt the former, and the latter: sure, it's a career for you. I get it. I had one of those for a few decades; retired early.

so you take that extra money you make and enjoy it, ok?


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

SHalester said:


> I doubt the former, and the latter: sure, it's a career for you. I get it. I had one of those for a few decades; retired early.
> 
> so you take that extra money you make and enjoy it, ok?


Once again, please do not put words in my mouth. A career for me? Really? Ok! No, its supplemental income which I choose to max as much as possible. But hey, if you want to waste your free/retired time, be my guest!


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> No, its supplemental income which I choose to max as much as possible.


good for you. Rock that extra income. It's all about hustling, right? Use all your time, ie no life, and make that $$.

And I'll rock a non-stressful, non hustling (because why?) life I have.

Bulk of my income is 'unearned' you can noodle that for a while, ok?   :roflmao: :roflmao:

Dekero is that you? &#129488;


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

SHalester said:


> good for you. Rock that extra income. It's all about hustling, right? Use all your time, ie no life, and make that $$.
> 
> And I'll rock a non-stressful, non hustling (because why?) life I have.
> 
> ...


Do you ever listen to yourself? Of course not, hence you finding a mate to be impossible!


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> hence you finding a mate to be impossible!


NO mate? Well, I guess on this ID you are NEW and haven't read too many posts yet. Ignorance I guess is a defense.

Did you have something to add to the thread? I mean I suppose I can repeat my opinion about those few drivers who rate on whether they can a CASH tip and then feel shame when the pax tip in the app.

Or repeat how I think having a tip jar is a line I certainly won't cross.

But, I won't. Just toying with you is entertaining enough, right? Carry on.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

SHalester said:


> NO mate? Well, I guess on this ID you are NEW and haven't read too many posts yet. Ignorance I guess is a defense.
> 
> Did you have something to add to the thread? I mean I suppose I can repeat my opinion about those few drivers who rate on whether they can a CASH tip and then feel shame when the pax tip in the app.
> 
> ...


It's a good thing there's Uber and this forum, or you wouldn't have a life at all.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

TheDoc said:


> Obviously dude had a massive grudge, hatred of uber and people, and his position stuck in life.
> At least 1 starring is better than stabbing or unleashing an AK47 clip magazine on people.


Fixed it.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> t's a good thing there's Uber and this forum, or you wouldn't have a life at all.


Again, would be nice of 'socks' at least pretended to remember notes they read on their original ID. I mean, really.

You are projecting, again. However, you got one thing right: Uber AND this forum is a time-suck.

Now run along back to your original ID.


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## surlyuber619 (Oct 11, 2017)

you're a terrible human being, and probably a shitty driver. Loosen up your butthole and live a little.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

surlyuber619 said:


> you're a terrible human being, and probably a shitty driver. Loosen up your butthole and live a little.


The answer is a resounding YES, I do make significantly more money than you!


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## Rav (Aug 24, 2018)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> The answer is a resounding YES, I do make significantly more money than you!


Ok Karen calm down..you want a excellent service badge or something ? &#129300;


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Rav said:


> you want a excellent service badge or something ?


Yes, please!


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## cman5555 (Aug 11, 2020)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Very simple formula:
> Cash tip = 5*
> No cash tip = 1*
> PS: please no bs about possible tips via the app at a later time. IDGAF!
> Ca$h talks, everything else walks!


Agreed, most passengers that say "oh, ill tip you in the app" are full of sheet..also any passenger that gets in my car right after finishing their cigarette gets 1 star)) oh and you made me wait 4 minutes for you to show up and didnt answer when I called or respond to my text? 1 STAR))



FLKeys said:


> I pretty much ignore the PAX ratting as well.
> 
> I have posted this before, here is the rating system I would like to see Uber and Lyft use:
> 
> ...


Nice system, passengers dont realize especially in smaller market if they 1 star a driver or a driver 1 stars them they can be waiting quite a while for a ride. Yesterday in my market, a woman was waiting 2 hours until i accepted her lyft request.



FLKeys said:


> An Uber rep told me issuing a 1⭐ to a rider will not unpair you from a rider. You have to contact Uber and request never to be paired with the rider again. What had me contact them was an incident where I gave a 1⭐to a rider and reported them for being rude and unsafe. A few days I got a pick-up request for them again.


I rated a passenger one star with lyft because they smoked a cigarette right before getting in my car and stunk it up. The fumes give me a headaches and I consider it beyond rude, not to mention, the next passenger gets to smell it too. But guess what? Got a ride request from the same person the next day with uber! Lol. Of course I canceled, contacted uber and told them not to match them with me again


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

cman5555 said:


> Nice system, passengers dont realize especially in smaller market if they 1 star a driver or a driver 1 stars them they can be waiting quite a while for a ride. Yesterday in my market, a woman was waiting 2 hours until i accepted her lyft request.


My market is small enough I can recognize repeat passengers by their name and pick-up location. I rarely one-star anyone except under the most egregious of circumstances. However, there are plenty of passengers with ride requests I quickly screen, especially on Lyft where you get their name and usually a picture with the incoming ping.

I've revenge shuffled a few previous passengers of mine, who I couldn't stand but gave five stars to anyway under the hopes someday I would get their ping again. Working this gig in a large market would seem more dangerous and less fun. I'm glad I'm fishing in a pond small enough that you can see everything there is to see rather quickly, and use that knowledge to punish those who might go unpunished in a bigger city.


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## PukersAreAlwaysYourFault (Mar 25, 2021)

Tipping is at the discretion of the rider. It should never be expected and you should feel humbled and grateful when it is provided. The millennial age was taught not to tip by your beloved platforms. You can't teach silent lessons.



UberHammer said:


> I as well only 1 star or 5 star, but for different reasons.
> 
> I've probably 1 starred at least 400 people in my town of around 25K, because they just wanted a ride to somewhere else in our small town (to walmart, to Kroger, to the doctor, etc, etc....).


Awful, dude. Your skull really that thick that you don't understand that a lot of people can't get around, can't drive for whatever reason, don't own a car, that the platforms are their best reliable source for getting daily needs done? This is disgusting. You deserve every one star you get.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

The rating system is a scam, a virtual placebo to make drivers feel like they have some power in this game. It is pointless as it has no effect on rides you are offered, especially now. 1* on Goober doesn't even unpair you with that prospective client. Reading ratings has little value as a driver because of the capricious way drivers use the system, combined with the fact poorly rated clients just make new accounts.


I only rate dangerous or blatantly rude clients. I never want your money again, 1* and a phone call to idiots to get unpaired. Everyone else 5* because I still want their $10 -$150.

You cannot train or alter the behaviors of strangers based on a brief encounter and one binary digit on an app. Rating is pointless.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

I only downrate someone if they CONSISTENTLY have unprofitable trips. I've had more pax than I can count, who one day are going two blocks at flat rate and the next day they are going 45+ minutes on a surge. I'd be cautious on assuming that the same passenger is going to always request the same ride. But, if it happens a few times, yes, go ahead and downrate or have yourself unpaired. Or *gasp* just decline their requests and don't worry about stars.

The fact that many drivers downrate due to spite or wait time, causes me to COMPLETELY ignore a pax rating. I just pick them up. If they are stupid during the ride I can always stop and cancel and eject the pax.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

cman5555 said:


> Agreed, most passengers that say "oh, ill tip you in the app


some markets must have pax who really freely speak about tips. I've never had a 'tip' conversation with any of my rides as a driver or a pax. Just never comes up, ever.

makes one wonder.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

cman5555 said:


> But guess what? Got a ride request from the same person the next day with uber! Lol. Of course I canceled, contacted uber and told them not to match them with me


Nice!!


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## TobyD (Mar 14, 2021)

SHalester said:


> some markets must have pax who really freely speak about tips. I've never had a 'tip' conversation with any of my rides as a driver or a pax. Just never comes up, ever.
> 
> makes one wonder.


The woke crowd always says "I'll tip you in the app", but never tip. It makes them feel good for thinking about tipping, but doesn't cost them anything.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

TobyD said:


> The woke crowd always says "I'll tip you in the app"


I guess my entire market is not 'woke' when it comes to speaking out loud about tips. I guess?. Still makes me wonder, tho. Think a few make up things just so they can be part of the sheep. Hum.


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Agreed! 1 or 5. If you bug me enough not to get a 5, you’re getting a 1.


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## cman5555 (Aug 11, 2020)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Agreed! 1 or 5. If you bug me enough not to get a 5, you're getting a 1.


Agreed, its either 1 or 5. No in between.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Ted Fink said:


> I only downrate someone if they CONSISTENTLY have unprofitable trips. I've had more pax than I can count, who one day are going two blocks at flat rate and the next day they are going 45+ minutes on a surge. I'd be cautious on assuming that the same passenger is going to always request the same ride. But, if it happens a few times, yes, go ahead and downrate or have yourself unpaired. Or *gasp* just decline their requests and don't worry about stars.
> 
> The fact that many drivers downrate due to spite or wait time, causes me to COMPLETELY ignore a pax rating. I just pick them up. If they are stupid during the ride I can always stop and cancel and eject the pax.


Yeah, most trips in the downtown are just money losers. You make money on distance not time, so those trips I will down rate to 1*. Unfortunately, because it is not Lyft I am unable to change the rating if the pax tips. Too bad, Uber doesn't give the drivers 24 hours post ride to rate. That's how it should be.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Seamus said:


> you'll quickly run out of pax to be matched with! :roflmao:


Highly, highly unlikely!


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## BestInDaWest (Apr 8, 2021)

i almost always rate 5 stars regardless ,unless it's an extreme offense. why? because the best you are gonna get out of that is a retaliatory 1* and a possible false complaint to uber ,risking your job. remember when uber said if you rate someone for not wearing a mask that they could not retaliate or rate the driver,wrong they did and i had no way of fighting it,once it posts it's permanent. In the end it means nothing but could potentially cost you your job. on the other hand there is also a game at play between me and customers. clearly poor riders are a challange to get tips from ,I can say with certainty that have been able to wrangle tips from clients I know for certain had no intention to do so when they ordered the ride. yes, this system is unfair and yes riders get away with a lot of stuff,but i am here to provide a service and maximize my earnings if that requires me to eat some crow, then so be it. My numbers back me up on this and yes it can be frustrating but whatever, In the end the smarter person wins.


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