# New service gives Amazon a Key to your house for deliveries



## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...-option-with-key-service-and-security-camera/


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## nighthawk398 (Jul 21, 2015)

Who's going pay $250 For that?


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## Girlnext4 (Oct 25, 2017)

Hahaha. That's nuts!


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## damphoose (Jul 6, 2017)

nighthawk398 said:


> Who's going pay $250 For that?


The same people who pay twice the price for items you can get at the grocery store just so they can get it in 1-2 hours.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Internet connected door locks are a brilliant idea. nothing can go wrong there!


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## nighthawk398 (Jul 21, 2015)

PrestonT said:


> Internet connected door locks are a brilliant idea. nothing can go wrong there!


Wi-Fi locks are not that new


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

nighthawk398 said:


> Wi-Fi locks are not that new


And still a terrible idea.


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## chuck finley (Aug 2, 2017)

hackers would love this service.


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## Movaldriver (Feb 20, 2017)

Also starting the delivery straight to the trunk of your car


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

People can't be inconvenienced to so much as lift a finger these days. Before you know it, people will be too "busy" to even breathe, blink their eyes, or go to the bathroom.


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

Prepare to be attacked by dogs, shot at by homeowners, and being accused of theft. Half the shady drivers at the warehouse here would never steal a thing, other than shifts of course.


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## chuck finley (Aug 2, 2017)

If hackers can hack smart car, they 're sure will be able to hack this service. 

Person of Interest is a very good and intelligence tv show.


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

A good kick to the right spot is all most doors require or just use a Halligan to pop it open...


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## getawaycar (Jul 10, 2017)

TBone said:


> Prepare to be attacked by dogs, shot at by homeowners, and being accused of theft. Half the shady drivers at the warehouse here would never steal a thing, other than shifts of course.


Or a neighbor sees you opening someone's door and they call the cops. A million things can go wrong. This is the dumbest idea ever. I hope Amazon isn't dumb enough to use independent couriers like us who don't wear uniforms, because that would be even worse. It might not be as bad if people see uniformed UPS, Fedex, etc people doing this kind of delivery but opening someone's door in your street clothes is just asking for all kinds of trouble.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

And everyone is worried about uncle Sam prying into your personal business.


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

Most people would be shocked to find out everything Amazon all ready knows about you. They track everything you do and keep this data forever.


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## jmz (Sep 25, 2017)

getawaycar said:


> I hope Amazon isn't dumb enough to use independent couriers like us who don't wear uniforms, because that would be even worse. It might not be as bad if people see uniformed UPS, Fedex, etc people doing this kind of delivery but opening someone's door in your street clothes is just asking for all kinds of trouble.


I think that's exactly what they intend to do. The list of participating cities looks like it's just a list of areas that have Flex.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

ABC123DEF said:


> Before you know it, people will be too "busy" to even breathe, blink their eyes, or *go to the bathroom.*


Speaking of which, do you think customers would mind if I run into the powder room for a quick tinkle after I set down their boxes in the foyer?


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## krazo (Nov 10, 2015)

jester121 said:


> Speaking of which, do you think customers would mind if I run into the powder room for a quick tinkle after I set down their boxes in the foyer?


Only if you lift the lid.


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

Next you'll want me to put it back down? 

Never mind, I'll use the bushes in the backyard, same as always.


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## Movaldriver (Feb 20, 2017)

I see alot of houses with lock boxes. Delivered to a business once had a note to call the customer. He gave me the lock box code to put it inside. This is going to be a pain if a bunch of people do this just because of the time factor


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## nighthawk398 (Jul 21, 2015)

Movaldriver said:


> I see alot of houses with lock boxes. Delivered to a business onceI'm had a note to call the customer. He gave me the lock box code to put it inside. This is going to be a pain if a bunch of people do this just because of the time factor


As far as time I would think it would be about the same time as opening a locker


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## Movaldriver (Feb 20, 2017)

True but here we rarely get those


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

^^^ Had one yesterday inside a 7-11, I'm like ugh, how do I do this again? Didn't press arrive til standing in front of it. Seemed like the machine acknowledge my presents. Scan pac, hold it to there scanner, it took about 20 seconds to open. Slam shut and gone.

I think if one googles amazon lockers a map pops up showing the locations.


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## getawaycar (Jul 10, 2017)

jmz said:


> I think that's exactly what they intend to do. The list of participating cities looks like it's just a list of areas that have Flex.


LOL that's hilarious if true.

There's no way I'm opening someone's door.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...me-services-security-camera-researchers-show/

Update, it's still a poor idea


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Shangsta said:


> https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...-option-with-key-service-and-security-camera/


Bad bad bad bad BAD idea.

Opens a Pandora's Box on all sorts of litigation

While this may work in the burbs, I don't see this happening in key Amazon customer areas like SF where the crime rate is high. WTH can't Amazon just setup lockers at major grocery chains everywhere? Way less liability IMO

Besides, city SF doesn't really need this service when Flex/IC partner drivers and delivery Uber drivers all piggy back on USPS/FedEx personnel. So gEtting access to restrictex apt complex areas isn't that hard. Lmao


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Another reason to boycott buying anything off there site.

And some hate Unions. There's so many reasons why there needed in this gig.


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## Movaldriver (Feb 20, 2017)

Last night on Tim Conway Jr they did a story about this.


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

And it's been hacked... A new flaw would allow a delivery person under this program to freeze the picture on the security camera remotely and enter your residence and do whatever they want while the camera displays a picture of a closed front door.

https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-key-flaw-let-deliverymen-disable-your-camera/

When Amazon launched its Amazon Key service last month, it also offered a remedy for anyone-realistically, most people-who might be creeped out that the service gives random strangers unfettered access to your home. That security antidote? An internet-enabled camera called Cloud Cam, designed to sit opposite your door and reassuringly record every Amazon Key delivery.

But now security researchers have demonstrated that with a simple program run from any computer in Wi-Fi range, that camera can be not only disabled but frozen. A viewer watching its live or recorded stream sees only a closed door, even as their actual door is opened and someone slips inside. That attack would potentially enable rogue delivery people to stealthily steal from Amazon customers, or otherwise invade their inner sanctum.


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## oicu812 (Aug 29, 2016)

jester121 said:


> Next you'll want me to put it back down?
> 
> Never mind, I'll use the bushes in the backyard, same as always.


Better look for cameras even in the backyard.


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

Yep, cameras have gotten cheap enough and secure enough that even outdoor mounting by the owner themselves is within reach. No need to pay for a "pro" to come out and wire your place up. Hell, even in my shitty apartment I have 3 cameras that cover the living room, garage and front entry.

They came in handy the other day when FedEx claimed they dropped off an expensive package but I was able to show that the driver was never at my front door that day by pulling up the footage stored offsite. All of a sudden the driver remembered where he "incorrectly" delivered the package too.


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

good catch. Did that driver really deliver it incorrectly, was too lazy to deliver it, or was this attempt an #EpicFail finger discount while en route to your house?


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

No clue. It was suddenly found though two days later after I called in to FedEx to report the package as missing and stated that I had security footage that showed that their driver never was at my front door on the day and time the package was marked as delivered. They sent two drivers to deliver the missing package so I assume one was either holiday help or a supervisor. It would have been a fairly large insurance claim for FedEx ($1000+).


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## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Movaldriver said:


> I see alot of houses with lock boxes. Delivered to a business once had a note to call the customer. He gave me the lock box code to put it inside. This is going to be a pain if a bunch of people do this just because of the time factor


You think that's bad. Wait until Amazon gets around to the large scale white collar ghettos they call apartment complexes....

And what's to stop drivers from sharing the house code with other flex/prime drivers? Or other non Amazon delivery personnel aka FedEx, UPS & USPS? These delivery personnel have typically been willing to share apt access key codes with me if I asked them. USPS in particular has key access to major apt complexes I've delivered to (both as IC and flex driver) in Bay area. I've always been able to piggy back off these drivers with zero issue. So WTH are they pursuing this unnecessary, complicated policy with so much potential legal issues down the road? Having to be responsible for all key/code property access on my delivery routes is another operational risk I'm not thrilled to be accountable for tbh.

Never mind the customer is always right and Amazon always sides with the customer. The fact those cams can be remotely hacked is a big security risk. WTH do you need this if you can get a superior remote surveillance service from likes of ADT? Besides, if cam malfunctions or is being hacked, it's your word against customer. The instant you gain access to the property, you've potentially made yourself vulnerable to legal liability of :

1. tresspassing
2. being assaulted by customer's dog(s) or any pets on property with teeth
3. being accosted/assaulted by the customer
4. being falsely accused of theft
5. being falsely accused by minors at the residence of inappropriate behavior
6. having customer go LyfUber pax on you and complain to Amazon of verbal/sexual harassment. Or God forbid they claim rape/attempted physical assault. Just so they can get a refund and other freebies from Amazon.

List of paranoia is too long.

All of these Murphy's Law scenarios are quite feasible if you're delivering one of those oversize/heavy packages and customer is elderly, female or both in the residence. And if -- for or some reason--you inadvertently have to move off camera (say to drop off the package elsewhere in residence at customer request), then you've put yourself in legal jeopardy.

Route delivery times would be definitely be impacted for the worse. Especially if customers insist on leaving call-me notes while they're not home. And these customers live in the large scale apt complexes, some which go over 15 floors in San Francisco. Unless you have a locker, central secure mailroom to deliver packages to, or manager office, then you're now legally screwed. You're likely going to end up having to deliver to customer door if customer requests it.

Before --when you lacked access to apt gate code-- you could always mark the package NSL/BC/UTA. Now you have ZERO excuse and route will be much longer. And CS will hold you to doing this, since the customer explicitly requested a call/left special delivery instructions. And now failing to follow customer instructions (no matter how stupid like leaving package in a high traffic area/busy side street) is a potential to immediate grounds for deactivation by Amazon.


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## dkcs (Aug 27, 2014)

Next delivery couriers will need to wear body cams to protect themselves from false claims...

Even with that Amazon will stay take the customers word!


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

dkcs said:


> No clue. It was suddenly found though two days later after I called in to FedEx to report the package as missing and stated that I had security footage that showed that their driver never was at my front door on the day and time the package was marked as delivered. They sent two drivers to deliver the missing package so I assume one was either holiday help or a supervisor. It would have been a fairly large insurance claim for FedEx ($1000+).


SMH. To bad Flex customers would have to show that kind of proof.


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