# Said Goodbye to a $120 Fare...



## SteamFlyer82 (Nov 29, 2015)

First fare for the evening was an individual requesting a trip from Northern Tampa to Orlando. An estimated $120 Fare. Needless to mention, I eagerly accepted his route and made sure the passenger was comfortable for his hour and a half ride; offering a bottle of water and candy. 

As the trip progressed out of his neighborhood, he mentioned to me that he was visiting a friend for "pre-celebrations" of his 18th BIRTHDAY ON DECEMBER 23rd. 

I respectfully disclosed to him that I needed to cancel the trip and take him back home. He understood my reasoning, especially about the Uber agreement and insurance legalities concerning trips and minors.

I closed out his trip and e-mailed Uber explaining the situation that just occured. 

Question: should I have continued the trip and how did a minor get an Uber account? 

Uber has yet to respond to my follow up correspondence regarding the possible fraud of an Uber account and that the customer (kid) probably rated me at an A$$Hole level one-star rating.

Any recommendations and/or similar situations? I feel that I did the right thing.


----------



## glados (May 23, 2015)

Yeah, there was no need for you to do that.


----------



## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

I don't know the rules on minors, I've heard of teenagers using it, I imagine on their parents account? I did have a mother with her kid who didn't have a car seat. I freaked out a little since it was one of my first rides. I just see dollar signs from lawsuits vs. a $10 ride.


----------



## glados (May 23, 2015)

Unaccompanied minors are free to ride on Uber but the terms require account holders to be at least 18 years old.


----------



## SteamFlyer82 (Nov 29, 2015)

The customer was a minor. He was alone.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)




----------



## glados (May 23, 2015)

SteamFlyer82 said:


> The customer was a minor. He was alone.


That is OK.

Minors are allowed to ride alone on the Uber platform. They simply can't be account holders. This is the current, official policy.


----------



## SteamFlyer82 (Nov 29, 2015)

So basically I just threw away $120 faire?


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

glados said:


> Unaccompanied minors are free to ride on Uber but the terms require account holders to be at least 18 years old.


Uber user terms of service:

*USER REQUIREMENTS AND CONDUCT.
*
The Service is _*not available*_ for use by persons under the age of 18. You may not authorize third parties to use your Account, and you may not allow persons under the age of 18 to receive transportation or logistics services from Third Party Providers unless they are accompanied by you.

The Driver terms of service doesn't mention minors. Uber is playing both sides it seems.


----------



## glados (May 23, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Uber user terms of service:


This is out of date and not reflective of current policy. As I said, the current policy is that minors *are *allowed to ride alone on the Uber platform. They simply cannot be account holders.


----------



## SteamFlyer82 (Nov 29, 2015)

I don't know. I looked up the same account user information and RamzFanz is correct from what I have reviewed.


----------



## SteamFlyer82 (Nov 29, 2015)

I also don't feel confident that Uber has yet to respond to my concerns about the situation.


----------



## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

Keep hauling these minors and eventually you'll be on TV. Run aways, teens lured by older predators , accidents with minor in car etc

If I were heading to Orlando i prob would have done it. But I would never round trip Tampa/orlando for a measly $120


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

SECOTIME said:


> Keep hauling these minors and eventually you'll be on TV. Run aways, teens lured by older predators , accidents with minor in car etc
> 
> If I were heading to Orlando i prob would have done it. But I would never round trip Tampa/orlando for a measly $120


A Tampa to Orlando and a deadhead back at Tampa's rates would be $29 an hour after fees and MY costs. Sounds good to me.

A male 17 year old riding in the back with a dashcam? I'm not seeing the risks you are.


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

glados said:


> This is out of date and not reflective of current policy. As I said, the current policy is that minors *are *allowed to ride alone on the Uber platform. They simply cannot be account holders.


And where do drivers find that policy?


----------



## MR5STAR (May 18, 2015)

Yea i woulda took the ride and would have gotten cash for the ride back. ABC


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

MR5STAR said:


> Yea i woulda took the ride and would have gotten cash for the ride back. ABC


Advising people to get deactivated by doing something illegal isn't good advice.


----------



## MR5STAR (May 18, 2015)

I didn't advise anyone just said what I would have done. You didn't read it correctly.


----------



## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> A Tampa to Orlando and a deadhead back at Tampa's rates would be $29 an hour after fees and MY costs. Sounds good to me.
> 
> A male 17 year old riding in the back with a dashcam? I'm not seeing the risks you are.





RamzFanz said:


> A Tampa to Orlando and a deadhead back at Tampa's rates would be $29 an hour after fees and MY costs. Sounds good to me.
> 
> A male 17 year old riding in the back with a dashcam? I'm not seeing the risks you are.


From the hard Rock in Tampa to amway center in Orlando the fare estimate is $84-112 and that's before Uber reaches its hand in.

$120 @$29 an hour doesn't seem bad but I bet it's more like $70ish after Uber cut then factor in fuel.. I wouldn't do it without a pre tip or surge

On 75 you can push 90mph for 70% other 30% of the way is drenched in roadwork..80-90mph on the turnpike saves time pretty much a straight shot if not travelling during the day


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

SECOTIME said:


> From the hard Rock in Tampa to amway center in Orlando the fare estimate is $84-112 and that's before Uber reaches its hand in.
> 
> $120 @$29 an hour doesn't seem bad but I bet it's more like $70ish after Uber cut then factor in fuel.. I wouldn't do it without a pre tip or surge
> 
> On 75 you can push 90mph for 70% other 30% of the way is drenched in roadwork..80-90mph on the turnpike saves time pretty much a straight shot if not travelling during the day


It's a 2.5 hour round trip so $60 would still be $24 an hour if after fees and costs. What's wrong with that?


----------



## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

Alright you talked me into it. I'd prob do it just trying to be cynical here you ruining the fun


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

SECOTIME said:


> Alright you talked me into it. I'd prob do it just trying to be cynical here you ruining the fun


Sorry dude, didn't mean to cramp your style, carry on.


----------



## KevRyde (Jan 27, 2015)

glados said:


> This is out of date and not reflective of current policy. As I said, the current policy is that minors *are *allowed to ride alone on the Uber platform. They simply cannot be account holders.


glados since you're such a good company man, how 'bout you tell your bosses to update the language found in

*USER REQUIREMENTS AND CONDUCT. *under
*
3. YOUR USE OF THE SERVICES *under
*
TERMS AND CONDITIONS* under

*USER TERMS *under

*LEGAL *on uber's website.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

SteamFlyer82 said:


> I also don't feel confident that Uber has yet to respond to my concerns about the situation.


Wait a second. When you ditched this kid he called another Uber who gladly took him to Orlando. So the kid got his ride, the driver got his $120 fare, and Uber got their 30%. Everybody's happy except you.


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Uber user terms of service:
> 
> *USER REQUIREMENTS AND CONDUCT.
> *
> ...


There it is, right there. It is in direct contradiction to what glados has posted. Drivers go by what is on Uber's website and by the last missive from Uber.



glados said:


> This is out of date and not reflective of current policy. As I said, the current policy is that minors *are *allowed to ride alone on the Uber platform. They simply cannot be account holders.


If that is the case, why has Uber not updated its website and sent e-Mails to the drivers? I would expect that since Uber is a _*TECHNOLOGY*_ _*COMPANY*_ that it would, as a matter of routine, keep its website up to date and send out electronic missives to its "partners" as a matter of course. Who dropped the ball, here?





SECOTIME said:


> Keep hauling these minors and eventually you'll be on TV. Run aways, teens lured by older predators , accidents with minor in car etc


There is a not inaccurate citation of more than one potential problem.



RamzFanz said:


> And where do drivers find that policy?


^^^^^^^What he said.^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why has Uber not informed its drivers of an alleged "change in policy"?



RamzFanz said:


> Advising people to get deactivated by doing something illegal isn't good advice.


^^^^^^^^^^^Again, what he said, but redirecting it at glados^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

_*SPLAT!*_.............whew! I just dodged that cowpie that just fell from the sky............ My GOODNESS! Cows can fly! I actually agree with both RamzFanz and SECOTIME on something............and simultaneously, to boot~!


----------



## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

Are minors allowed to hail cabs in most states?


----------



## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

SECOTIME said:


> Are minors allowed to hail cabs in most states?


I do not know the rules, even in the suburbs, here, but I do know the City rule. In the City, you can transport a minor age twelve, or over and generally, he is considered responsible for himself. The exceptions would be if there is a collision, the driver fails to drop him where he asks to be dropped or some other catastrophe. If the passenger is under twelve, the driver can transport him, if he is willing to do so, but he his held responsible for him until he renders said minor to an adult.


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Drivers also carry third party riders ALL the time. 

Since Glados is the company rep here, I'd like to see, in writing, the allowance for 3rd party riders and/or the carriage of minors.


----------



## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

Glados is just the lurker that reports the hot threads to the creeps at uber.


----------



## Choochie (Jan 4, 2015)

SECOTIME said:


> Are minors allowed to hail cabs in most states?


Last time I checked a minor can board an airplane without an adult.


----------



## UberEddie2015 (Nov 2, 2015)

Glados can we pick up at the Atlanta airport terminal or not take those pings.


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

JimS said:


> Drivers also carry third party riders ALL the time.
> 
> Since Glados is the company rep here, I'd like to see, in writing, the allowance for 3rd party riders and/or the carriage of minors.


I've emailed Uber about both of these. The answer to third party was, if you are aware of it, you should call the account holder for permission. For minors, they said it's up to you.

It seems to me they are punting on both questions.


Choochie said:


> Last time I checked a minor can board an airplane without an adult.


They are assigned a stewardess chaperone who accompanies them.


----------



## Choochie (Jan 4, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> I've emailed Uber about both of these. The answer to third party was, if you are aware of it, you should call the account holder for permission. For minors, they said it's up to you.
> 
> It seems to me they are punting on both questions.
> 
> They are assigned a stewardess chaperone who accompanies them.


So what do you think we are - and by the way no one accompanied my kids when they flew. I asked them.


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Amtrak is 16+ unaccompanied. 15 & under require an 18 year old present.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

JimS said:


> Amtrak is 16+ unaccompanied. 15 & under require an 18 year old present.


Amtrak policy:

*Children age 12 and under* may not travel unaccompanied. They must travel with another person who is at least 18 years old (see *exception below).

*Children 13, 14 and 15 years old* may travel unaccompanied in accordance with the Amtrak Unaccompanied Minor Policy.

*Children 16 and over* may travel without restriction.


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

So I was mostly right. The rules for 13-15 year olds are quite extensive almost making it not worth the effort. These ruled changed a couple years ago when a group of 15 & 16 year olds were kicked off the train in an unfamiliar town when the conductor found out some were not of age to travel. So, Amtrak did lighten the reigns a bit. http://www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/15-year-old-kicked-off-Amtrak-train-mid-trip-146367045.html

The *exception below that you copied and pasted without explanation is actually very interesting for Uber drivers. Amtrak allows a minor under 16 to travel with someone who is NOT 18 when that person is their parent. IE: a baby can be accompanied by their 16 year old mom and treated as traveling adults.

Would you take a 16 year old mom and her baby in your Uber?


----------



## rtaatl (Jul 3, 2014)

$120 before comission so about $98..then it's not just to Orlando but wherever their destination is right? That just wastes more time and gas. Not worth it in my opinion. What's it turning into...Uber greyhound..lol! Also technically without the proper licensure, permits, and background checks I'd say transporting a minor might be sketchy from an UberX point of view. If there was any allegation a decent lawyer would tear you apart with no protection of licensure.


----------



## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Choochie said:


> So what do you think we are - and by the way no one accompanied my kids when they flew. I asked them.


Yeah, you're right, I think it's 12 and under on flights and there is a fee for the stewardess.


----------



## oobaah (Oct 6, 2015)

SteamFlyer82 said:


> I respectfully disclosed to him that I needed to cancel the trip and take him back home. He understood my reasoning, especially about the Uber agreement and insurance legalities concerning trips and minors.
> 
> I closed out his trip and e-mailed Uber explaining the situation that just occured.
> 
> Any recommendations and/or similar situations? *I feel that I did the right thing.*


Please tell me you are not one of those drivers that REFUSE TIPS coz Papa Uber said we should not? SMDH

I've ubered a 17yr old like 20 times to see his date, movies, theme parks etc and he's a very well behaved kid (after I showed him his 4.2* rating).

he had no idea that his teen antics were messing with his ride acceptance. since then his rating has gone up to 4.8

he always takes $80 round trips, and when I drop him off, I uber in that city, then uber him back

play the system bro, dont run to papa uber all the time


----------



## Snowtop (Nov 11, 2014)

Here is the response I got from Uber 3 months ago regarding unaccompanied minors.

Sep 2, 08:49

Thank you for writing in and let me explain to you the details.

At this time, anyone who is under 18 should be accompanied by an adult while using the service. You can politely inform the parents about our policy in transporting minor passengers.

Feel free to send me an email if you have further questions.

*Mark*
help.uber.com


----------



## oobaah (Oct 6, 2015)

hahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahaha

hahahahahahahaha

ping!


----------



## VegasJeff (Sep 15, 2015)

I think you did the right thing cancelling the trip (regardless of the reason). I'm not convinced you would make any money at all considering how many deadhead miles are involved. I would like to see your numbers if you think you would turn a profit.


----------



## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

SteamFlyer82 said:


> First fare for the evening was an individual requesting a trip from Northern Tampa to Orlando. An estimated $120 Fare. Needless to mention, I eagerly accepted his route and made sure the passenger was comfortable for his hour and a half ride; offering a bottle of water and candy.
> 
> As the trip progressed out of his neighborhood, he mentioned to me that he was visiting a friend for "pre-celebrations" of his 18th BIRTHDAY ON DECEMBER 23rd.
> 
> ...


This is a joke or a setup to a joke, right? I can't imagine any rational person doing something so foolish. This didn't really happen, did it?


----------



## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

MR5STAR said:


> Yea i woulda took the ride and would have gotten cash for the ride back. ABC


Atta boy! ABC!


----------



## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> Yeah, you're right, I think it's 12 and under on flights and there is a fee for the stewardess.


What the heck is a stewardess? They got rid of those things in the 70's.

Here is some information for you about this subject:

http://work.chron.com/difference-between-stewardess-flight-attendant-5409.html


----------



## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> What the heck is a stewardess? They got rid of those things in the 70's.
> 
> Here is some information for you about this subject:
> 
> http://work.chron.com/difference-between-stewardess-flight-attendant-5409.html


Man, can you imagine putting in the effort to earn a college degree, only to take a job as a flight attendant?


----------



## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Man, can you imagine putting in the effort to earn a college degree, only to take a job as a flight attendant?


Man can you imagine putting in the effort to earn a college degree, only to take a job as a Uber driver?


----------



## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Man can you imagine putting in the effort to earn a college degree, only to take a job as a Uber driver?


Now that would definitely suck!


----------



## HOUTXRon (Aug 23, 2015)

SteamFlyer82 said:


> Any recommendations and/or similar situations? I feel that I did the right thing.


You are an IC and should run your business as you see fit. I think you did the right thing. WHEN shit hits the fan, a judge or jury may not find your argument - someone named glados from nowhere on a website called uberpeople.net told me it was OK to do so - too persuasive. The same goes for others pontificating here, they would not be in court defending you.

We know what uber's reaction will be, throw the driver under the bus first ask questions later. Or we are a tech company playing the role of a pimp. It was between the two of you guys to hash it out.

In many citites uber operates in a gray area and you better have your ass covered because they'll chew it up and spit it out in a heartbeat. Start covering it by at least installing a good quality cab-facing dashcam.

This forum is a place where people post their understanding of things or their opinions and we all know what they say about opinions. If not, let me know. I would love to post it for you.


----------



## UberXking (Oct 14, 2014)

5 Star Guy said:


> I don't know the rules on minors, I've heard of teenagers using it, I imagine on their parents account? I did have a mother with her kid who didn't have a car seat. I freaked out a little since it was one of my first rides. I just see dollar signs from lawsuits vs. a $10 ride.





RamzFanz said:


> Uber user terms of service:
> 
> *USER REQUIREMENTS AND CONDUCT.
> *
> ...





glados said:


> That is OK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SteamFlyer82 (Nov 29, 2015)

HOUTXRon said:


> You are an IC and should run your business as you see fit. I think you did the right thing. WHEN shit hits the fan, a judge or jury may not find your argument - someone named glados from nowhere on a website called uberpeople.net told me it was OK to do so - too persuasive. The same goes for others pontificating here, they would not be in court defending you.
> 
> We know what uber's reaction will be, throw the driver under the bus first ask questions later. Or we are a tech company playing the role of a pimp. It was between the two of you guys to hash it out.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your advise and confirmation in my judgement call. After allowing several days to review the situation, reading various comments/posts, I am 100% confident that I did the right decision by denying this "minor" a drive.

I do utilize a high-resolution interior/exterior camera system that also takes audio recordings, GPS tracking and G-Force Collision Data.

Thank you once again.


----------



## Chrisreese (Apr 19, 2015)

I picked up two girls on Halloween this year... They started talking about how they had to be home before their parents... I ask how old they are and they say 16... I'm like okay... Haha so the ride continues and they have two bottle of alcohol in their backpack and some pills. Damn I wish uber existed when I was in HS. Kids these days have it too easy !


----------



## lovisone (Jul 19, 2015)

Any driver transporting an unaccompanied minor on the Uber or Lyft platform is doing so uninsured. Violating the TOS voids Uber/Lyft insurance and your personal insurance is void because you have a pax while using a ride share app. So for those who think it's not a big deal, good luck!


----------



## maui (Dec 22, 2015)

SteamFlyer82 said:


> First fare for the evening was an individual requesting a trip from Northern Tampa to Orlando. An estimated $120 Fare. Needless to mention, I eagerly accepted his route and made sure the passenger was comfortable for his hour and a half ride; offering a bottle of water and candy.
> 
> Any recommendations and/or similar situations? I feel that I did the right thing.


Actually you saved yourself a FREE TRIP. People don't remember the Columbia House record deals, but one of the biggest way out of it was to have a minor send in / received the CDs. Minors can't enter into contracts, etc, so all the youth has to do, take the ride, then when parents get the bill, have parents complain to Uber, state that a minor accessed their account/phone and they are not responsible.

The question to me is whether Uber does a charge back to you and deduct the fare, or would they cover it.


----------



## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

maui said:


> Actually you saved yourself a FREE TRIP. People don't remember the Columbia House record deals, but one of the biggest way out of it was to have a minor send in / received the CDs. Minors can't enter into contracts, etc, so all the youth has to do, take the ride, then when parents get the bill, have parents complain to Uber, state that a minor accessed their account/phone and they are not responsible.
> 
> The question to me is whether Uber does a charge back to you and deduct the fare, or would they cover it.


You do not have this right at all.

A minor (under 18) can not enter into a contract. That part is true. So a minor can't buy a car or a house. A minor can not enter into a contract. A minor can't sign a cell phone agreement. But minors use cell phones all the time. That's because the parents sign the cell phone agreements and hand the phone to the minor to use.

But a minor is allowed to go to a store or business and purchase something like a candy bar, hamburger, soft drink, toy, taxi ride etc.

Since a minor is not entering into a contract to take a uber ride--that minor is fine taking a uber ride or a school bus ride or something else the minor would like to purchase that is not prohibited by law.


----------



## maui (Dec 22, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> You do not have this right at all.
> 
> A minor (under 18) can not enter into a contract. That part is true. So a minor can't buy a car or a house. A minor can not enter into a contract. A minor can't sign a cell phone agreement. But minors use cell phones all the time. That's because the parents sign the cell phone agreements and hand the phone to the minor to use.
> 
> ...


Hey Bob. You might want to do some research. There are legal terms like AUTHORIZATION and ASSIGNMENT that you need to understand.

Did you get a note from the parents giving you permission to give them a ride. Remember those field trips in school.

Also... Remember APPLE? They had to pay over $32M out for UNAUTHORIZED PURCHASES by kids on apps their parents left open. Uber is no different. If you don't see the parent or talk to the parent, all the parent has to say is they did not authorize it and the credit card company will reverse it.

This is not to mention the liability of driving around an unaccompanied minor

But have you read UBER LEGAL???

*The Service is not available for use by persons under the age of 18. You may not authorize third parties to use your Account, and you may not allow persons under the age of 18 to receive transportation or logistics services from Third Party Providers unless they are accompanied by you.
*
Long and short... A parent cannot give a child (3rd part) to use the account, nor can they allow them to use the service unaccompanied.

Now Uber may allow this to happen, because they are collecting money, but you can bet when there are charge backs, or there are issues, Uber will point to their legal agreement and state that it was NOT ALLOWED and the liability is on the driver who broke the rules.

To spell it out.

*The Service is not available for use by persons under the age of 18.*
A minor is not able to sign up for Uber.

*You may not authorize third parties to use your Account*
You can not legally give someone access to use your account.

*and you may not allow persons under the age of 18 to receive transportation or logistics services from Third Party Providers unless they are accompanied by you.*
You can not allow minors to be driven by an Uber when you are not present (along for the trip) and you cannot allow the minor to use the app to request a ride etc.

Now a lot of parents do use Uber to ferry their kids around unattended. As far as Uber knows because of their agreement, the authorized user who is an adult is present. Anything goes wrong... You are SOL


----------



## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

maui said:


> Hey Bob. You might want to do some research. There are legal terms like AUTHORIZATION and ASSIGNMENT that you need to understand.
> 
> Did you get a note from the parents giving you permission to give them a ride. Remember those field trips in school.
> 
> ...


Let's start at the beginning here.

1. There is no law that prohibits the transportation of someone under 18 in a Uber, streetcar, bus, train or Taxi. This is true no matter if the rider is by his/her self or with a parent or guardian. A minor can ride alone. There is no law against it.

2. The reason parents have to sign permission slips for field trips is to because the schools require a release of liability in order for the student to go on a field trip. That is a condition the school sets. It is not a law. The parents have to sign the permission slip because someone under 18 can not enter into a release of liability. (aka contract) Just to throw some more mud into this mix, some courts have ruled that parents can not sign away a minors liability rights. So those permission slips may not even be valid as a release of liability.

3. The Uber Legal you quote from is the RIDER'S version. It is not the DRIVER'S version. The RIDER'S version DOES NOT APPLY to the DRIVER.
The DRIVER'S version does not mention an age requirement. So the Driver is not violating any part of the driver agreement by picking up a minor.

4. You can make the argument that the RIDER is violating the RIDER agreement and that may be true--but it is not the DRIVER'S job to enforce the RIDER'S AGREEMENT that we are not a party to. Uber updates the Driver's agreement on a regular basis. Maybe this age requirement used to be in previous versions of the Driver's agreement and was taken out. I just don't know and you would need to take this up with Uber for further assistance. Maybe they will update the Rider's agreement on this matter.

5. There is no additional liability (for a driver) in transporting a minor as compared to an adult. So I don't know why folks talk about some sort of added liability driving around an unaccompanied minor. Just keep your dash cams on throughout your trips and you will be CYA in case of any sort of rider claim whether it be an adult or an unaccompanied minor.


----------



## maui (Dec 22, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Let's start at the beginning here.


I don't even know where to begin. Long and short, a driver who gives an unaccompanied minor a ride has a huge liability exposure. Uber does not care, the full risk is on the driver because the rider is in violation of the user agreement. The parent is not legally responsible for the fare, and Uber encourages this because there is no secondary or periodic authentication on the app. This is why Apple lost millions.

In the case of the original OP, there is nothing to say the kids were not on a Joy ride, the parents had no idea where the kids were going as well as maybe perhaps did not want the kids doing that traveling. The exposure there is HUGE, especially if there is an accident... which by the way is not covered by Uber Insurance, and likely yours... This is because the rider is unauthorized

These agreements, especially ones that seem to be conflicting are done so on purpose to limit liability and make it appear there is more coverage than there actually is.

By all means. Learn the lesson the hard way.


----------



## lovisone (Jul 19, 2015)

I specifically asked uber if unaccompanied minors are covered by uber's insurance and this is their response.

*Annalyn* (Uber)

Dec 27, 13:57

Hi Patricia,

Annalyn here, stepping in for Edron. Happy to help.

All the users of the Uber app must be 18 yrs old or older, this means that any rider younger than 18 yrs old is not covered by insurance. If there are minors, there should be an adult accompanying them on the trip.

If you have any additional questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to reach out.

Best,

*Annalyn*


----------



## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

glados said:


> This is out of date and not reflective of current policy. As I said, the current policy is that minors *are *allowed to ride alone on the Uber platform. They simply cannot be account holders.


Should you transport a minor to another city?I think he did the right thing.


----------



## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

You definitely can't take a minor, the better question is why would you want to? The theory seems to be a loophole, which is sad at best. I'm afraid to use the restroom alone with a minor now, I don't know these people and with everything going on these days who knows what someone could say. Most people on here aren't fully covered with their insurance and believe they are. I'd stick with that first.


----------



## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Few months back, weekend of a lot of the high school homecomings, I had several groups of teens requesting Uber and Lyft rides from the HS's to parties or home, the first one was a group of 6 (they're teens, they squeeze together well), the next was a group of two. I had to call each one first to confirm the pickup because the system was giving me bad pickup locations. When I got to pickup the third one, she was crying because her boyfriend dumped her. I was super leery of picking her up, when she got in, I asked how old she was, she said 16, I told her for her protection and mine, even though we were only going 10 blocks, to please call her Mom or Dad and talk to them for the entire drive. She looked at me weird, but did it.


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

glados said:


> This is out of date and not reflective of current policy. As I said, the current policy is that minors *are *allowed to ride alone on the Uber platform. They simply cannot be account holders.


Can you please show us where this is the case? I need something in writing, not the word of an anonymous poster on a disgruntled driver forum.


----------



## maui (Dec 22, 2015)

JimS said:


> Can you please show us where this is the case? I need something in writing, not the word of an anonymous poster on a disgruntled driver forum.


They need to go back a page or so in this thread. Uber Representative has already stated to the Contrary. NO UNACCOMPANIED MINORS


----------



## Expired Tablet (Dec 17, 2015)

SteamFlyer82 said:


> So basically I just threw away $120 faire?


Yeah u threw away $120 bro. Many instances parent let's their kids go to school or other places using their accounts, if you feel comfortable you may do that otherwise can cancel. Especially after that long drive, account holder complains he or she wasn't in car or used it. But I would have done it.
And no no to child without car seats. I have declined a few rides. It's not good to risk the lives of children.


----------



## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

I cut and paste earlier from their website, go to their website if you don't believe it. Minors are not allowed. You must have a valid credit card a minor does not have and you are not allowed to let someone else, wife, dog, kid, use your account.


----------



## SteamFlyer82 (Nov 29, 2015)

Agreed.


----------



## maui (Dec 22, 2015)

Expired Tablet said:


> Yeah u threw away $120 bro. Many instances parent let's their kids go to school or other places using their accounts, if you feel comfortable you may do that otherwise can cancel. Especially after that long drive, account holder complains he or she wasn't in car or used it. But I would have done it.
> And no no to child without car seats. I have declined a few rides. It's not good to risk the lives of children.


You really don't make any sense.

On one hand you state that it is not good to risk the lives of children

But on the other, you state it is o.k. to give rides to unaccompanied minors.

1) You don't necessarily know the parent approved the trip. So you take a child somewhere that the parent did not know about? You are ASKING for an Amber alert

2) Uber has already stated it is not a valid trip. Of Course Uber will be a wink wink nod nod an let all these parents send you to ferry the kids along. Uber has stated it is not allowed. They are covered. James River in fact since Uber says not allowed has no exposure... The only exposure is you, with no personal insurance since you are on a far, perhaps you have shelled out the $7K or so for commercial insurance, but I doubt it, so this is all on your own personal liability for your car, the minor and any incidental car or pedestrian.

You might as well stop by a liquor store and pick up the kid some booze because they tell you mom and dad let them drink at home


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

You can *use* your account to transport someone else riding. You cannot allow a *minor* to be that person without you present. You cannot allow someone else to *use* your account. Just riding with you authorizing the trip isn't that other person using your account. But that is only in the case of adults. Not minors.


----------



## lovisone (Jul 19, 2015)

Reposting in case you missed it.


----------



## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

There are people on here who not only ignore facts, they want to misinform people, mostly on lack of insurance.


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

lovisone said:


> Reposting in case you missed it.
> View attachment 22499


Don't know if you're referring to my post or someone else's. I didn't miss it. That email doesn't dispute what I've said about minors, other than to add a shred of ambiguity. *"Should"* does not equal *"must"*.


----------



## lovisone (Jul 19, 2015)

JimS said:


> Didn't miss it. But it's still ambiguous. *"Should"* does not equal *"must"*.


What part about unaccompanied minors are not covered did you miss?


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

JimS said:


> You cannot allow a *minor* to be that person without you present.


Verbatim.

My argument is with regards to 3rd parties. IE: Bob orders Uber for Debbie. Debbie rides on Bob's account. Debbie is 42. That's not the same as Debbie uses Bob's account to buy her own trip somewhere.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

lovisone said:


> What part about unaccompanied minors are not covered did you miss?


Can you provide a link to some official Uber source that says an unaccompanied minor riding with the Uber app is not covered by insurance? Perhaps something more official than a random email that somebody posted from a customer support representative.


----------



## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

glados said:


> That is OK.
> 
> Minors are allowed to ride alone on the Uber platform. They simply can't be account holders. This is the current, official policy.


Wrong minors must be accompanied by adult 18 years or older on ride. A 10 year old can't just take a Uber by them selves.


----------



## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

glados said:


> This is out of date and not reflective of current policy. As I said, the current policy is that minors *are *allowed to ride alone on the Uber platform. They simply cannot be account holders.


^^^^wrong


----------



## lovisone (Jul 19, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Can you provide a link to some official Uber source that says an unaccompanied minor riding with the Uber app is not covered by insurance? Perhaps something more official than a random email that somebody posted from a customer support representative.


No I cannot. But can you post a similar link to something official from uber stating unaccompanied minors ARE covered?


----------



## glados (May 23, 2015)

Txchick said:


> ^^^^wrong


No, it's right. Kindly don't comment on what you don't know.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

lovisone said:


> No I cannot. But can you post a similar link to something official from uber stating unaccompanied minors ARE covered?


No. But at least now we're in agreement that the question remains to be settled.

Here's my point. I'm being told that transporting a minor represents a serious risk to my livelihood due to insurance issues, since minors are not authorized to use Uber. At the same time, I have no idea whether any rider who gets in my car is an authorized user. Neither do you. When you get a request to pick up Mary, and the person who gets in your car identifies herself as Mary, how do you know that it's actually Mary who's account was used to request you and not an unauthorized third party? You don't. So that means you're putting yourself at a huge insurance risk for each and every trip. The same risk you claim is unacceptable for driving an unaccompanied minor. How is that wrong?


----------



## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> I've emailed Uber about both of these. The answer to third party was, if you are aware of it, you should call the account holder for permission. For minors, they said it's up to you.
> 
> It seems to me they are punting on both questions.


Uber has recognized that it has issues with the accuracy of answers provided by its support staff. In a recent interview, Uber's Director of Driver Operations said, "We have issues with the accuracy of answers provided by our support staff. In response to this we are in the early stages of phasing out support operations, replacing our support operatives with a unique technological solution.

Starting now, all new drivers will be issued with an Automated Driver Support Device. The device is capable of seamlessly providing instant answers to driver enquiries, and will provide a significant increase in the quality of our responses to driver questions compared with our current support system. This will also, of course, result in higher earnings than ever for drivers":


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

glados said:


> No, it's right. Kindly don't comment on what you don't know.


We would love to, but the only thing that tells us you're right is ... you! You can't post ANYTHING that supports your position that minors are legal to carry. So, until the Terms are updated on the OFFICIAL UBER.COM website, I will go by THAT statement. That's the only one that is accessible by BOTH riders and drivers.


----------



## maui (Dec 22, 2015)

JimS said:


> We would love to, but the only thing that tells us you're right is ... you! You can't post ANYTHING that supports your position that minors are legal to carry. So, until the Terms are updated on the OFFICIAL UBER.COM website, I will go by THAT statement. That's the only one that is accessible by BOTH riders and drivers.


That is because

A) They can't read
B) If they don't like the answer, it does not apply to them
C) They know more than anyone else

The text message FROM UBER sums it up. 
Said Goodbye to a $120 Fare...

"All the users of the Uber app must be 18 yes old or older, this means that any rider younger than 18 yrs old IS NOT COVERED BY INSURANCE. If there are minors, there should be an adult accompanying them on the trip."


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

JimS said:


> We would love to, but the only thing that tells us you're right is ... you! You can't post ANYTHING that supports your position that minors are legal to carry. So, until the Terms are updated on the OFFICIAL UBER.COM website, I will go by THAT statement. That's the only one that is accessible by BOTH riders and drivers.


The TOS also state that third party users are not authorized to ride. So what steps do you take when a rider gets in your car to make sure she's the authorized account holder?

If she's not, you're driving at tremendous risk, no?


----------



## maui (Dec 22, 2015)

Coachman said:


> The TOS also state that third party users are not authorized to ride. So what steps do you take when a rider gets in your car to make sure she's the authorized account holder?
> 
> If she's not, you're driving at tremendous risk, no?


This gets a little tricky.

https://help.uber.com/h/ba042204-d476-4cc3-91fd-8ecc56dda335

Seems to be conflicting


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

maui said:


> This gets a little tricky.
> 
> https://help.uber.com/h/ba042204-d476-4cc3-91fd-8ecc56dda335
> 
> Seems to be conflicting


This is a legitimate cluster puck.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

maui said:


> Seems to be conflicting


It is. So is the fact that Uber's TOS say account holders must be 18 and over and yet we all know there are millions of teens out there riding around on their own Uber accounts. None of this is cut and dry.

The fact of the matter is that if you injure a passenger during a ride, any passenger, your Uber career is over. And if you were negligent or not, you're very likely going to be sued regardless of whether Uber's insurance provides coverage.


----------



## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

glados said:


> No, it's right. Kindly don't comment on what you don't know.


Really?? Please post Uber's rules on picking up under age passengers. Where does it say you can pick up underage passengers??


----------



## Txchick (Nov 25, 2014)

glados said:


> No, it's right. Kindly don't comment on what you don't know.


Uber TOS clearly states that a account holder requesting a ride for a minor must accompany the minor in the vehicle.


----------



## glados (May 23, 2015)

Txchick said:


> Uber TOS clearly states that a account holder requesting a ride for a minor must accompany the minor in the vehicle.


Again, the Uber rider terms is between Uber and Riders. Its provisions are not directed at driver-partners.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I emailed support about this issue and the response says nothing about riders not being covered.

_*Question*: I've been told that if I accept a rider who is not the authorized account user or who is under 18 years old that Uber's insurance does not cover the ride. Is this accurate? Thank you. _

_*Response:* Here's how Uber's insurance works for driver-partners.

From the time you "Go Online" in the Uber partner app, until you accept a trip, we maintain a policy in the state of Texas that provides 3rd party liability coverage in the amounts of $50K/$100K/$25K.

This policy is primary to your personal policy unless you maintain a policy that recognizes rideshare or other commercial use.

If you're looking to purchase rideshare specific coverage that would extend the coverages (for example, damages to your own vehicle and injuries to yourself) and limits from your personal policy to the time when you're logged into the app until you accept a trip, Farmers Insurance offers this coverage:

From the time you accept a trip, until the completion of that trip and the rider(s) exiting the vehicle, we maintain the following coverage:
-$1M of 3rd party liability
-$1M of uninsured or underinsured motorist injury
-Contingent comprehensive and collision insurance*_

_*If you maintain comprehensive and collision insurance on your own personal policy, our policy will cover physical damage to that vehicle up to the actual cash value of the vehicle, for any reason, with a $1,000 deductible.

Learn more by reviewing our insurance certificate. It's always available in your Waybill.

The Uber Newsroom also provides a detailed overview here.

Note, you are not required to purchase rideshare insurance as we will maintain coverage on your behalf that will comply with all state and local laws.

Sent by Jade on Thursday January 7 2016 8:47am_


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

glados said:


> Again, the Uber rider terms is between Uber and Riders. Its provisions are not directed at driver-partners.


All I'm asking for, glados, is something in writing. Unless you can can point us to such a policy - in writing - it's safer for us to not believe you.

How are riders rules different than drivers?

Seems THIS is the current policy of Uber: Note, it's OK to order a ride for someone else, so long as they are *NOT *a minor. Note how they explicitly separate minors from the authorization clause.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

JimS said:


> Seems THIS is the current policy of Uber: Note, it's OK to order a ride for someone else, so long as they are *NOT *a minor. Note how they explicitly separate minors from the authorization clause.


So when I pull up to a nice home in the suburbs for a request from Sarah, and a guy walks out and says "I ordered the ride on my wife's phone," is he covered by insurance?


----------



## maui (Dec 22, 2015)

Coachman said:


> So when I pull up to a nice home in the suburbs for a request from Sarah, and a guy walks out and says "I ordered the ride on my wife's phone," is he covered by insurance?


If he is over 18, yes. If he is under, and Sarah is not with him, OR if she is, but she too is under 18, than no.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

maui said:


> If he is over 18, yes.


I don't think you know that. You don't know that his wife authorized him to use the phone or whether Sarah is even his wife. The fact is you have no way of knowing whether he's an authorized user or not. You have no way of knowing that for anyone you pick up.


----------



## maui (Dec 22, 2015)

Coachman said:


> I don't think you know that. You don't know that his wife authorized him to use the phone or whether Sarah is even his wife. The fact is you have no way of knowing whether he's an authorized user or not. You have no way of knowing that for anyone you pick up.


That is all very true.

BUT... There is at least the POTENTIAL it is valid

I do know, if it is him alone, and he is under 18, the trip is not covered no matter what.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

maui said:


> I do know, if it is him alone, and he is under 18, the trip is not covered no matter what.


I don't know that you know that either. The only evidence I've seen is one email from one random Uber support representative. When I asked the question to support I got a non-answer. My guess is that they make insurance decisions for adults and for minors on a case by case basis depending on the facts of the situation.


----------



## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Coachman said:


> I don't know that you know that either. The only evidence I've seen is one email from one random Uber support representative. When I asked the question to support I got a non-answer. My guess is that they make insurance decisions for adults and for minors on a case by case basis depending on the facts of the situation.


At this point, I believe insurance coverage is then between Uber and the Account holder, not the driver.


----------



## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

No where in this thread does it say your account is transferrable. Not sure where people get that from and therefore your wife, kid and pet are not allowed to use your account.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

5 Star Guy said:


> No where in this thread does it say your account is transferrable. Not sure where people get that from and therefore your wife, kid and pet are not allowed to use your account.


The TOS state that your account is not transferable to a third party. But Uber advertises that you can order a ride for a third party using your account. There may be a clear distinction there in legal terms. But I don't know how as a driver I'm supposed to make that distinction.


----------



## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

For those of you with Rideshare/Hybrid Insurance, ask this question of your Insurance Company: Metromile, Farmers, Geico, Erie, etc....

Word it the way you want but ask if "unaccompanied minors" who you are transporting as an Uber or Lyft Driver are covered under your Rideshare/Hybrid Auto Insurance Policy?

Waiting for responses. I've asked mine.

_p.s Obviously don't ask this question of your Auto Insurance carrier UNLESS you have Rideshare/Hybrid Insurance, right?_

_chi1cabby This would also be a good article for one of your Journalist contacts. Like "Your child is in a Uber on their own , are they covered by Uber Insurance"? _


----------



## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

Coachman said:


> The TOS state that your account is not transferable to a third party. But Uber advertises that you can order a ride for a third party using your account. There may be a clear distinction there in legal terms. But I don't know how as a driver I'm supposed to make that distinction.


There's no way an advertisement violates their TOS, where did you see that?


----------

