# Not knowing destinations in advance is costing drivers BILLIONS OF DOLLARS per year in lost revenue



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue 
every year.

By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.

Knowing destinations in advance and NOT being penalized in any way whatsoever would result in much HIGHER driver pay, which is why both companies have always been strongly opposed to it.

Drivers knowing destinations in advance would a GAME CHANGER.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


While I totally agree that not seeing destination greatly hurts our pay, I disagree that drivers' pay is the reason for U/L's opposition to showing destination. I think that there is such an abundance of money- losing rides - I might go as far as to say that *most* rides are money losers for drivers - that U/L know that all but the most oblivious drivers would decline these rides if they knew in advance. These rides are Uber's & Lyft's bread and butter, and they can't risk stranding these riders.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

CTK said:


> While I totally agree that not seeing destination greatly hurts our pay, I disagree that drivers' pay is the reason for U/L's opposition to showing destination. I think that there is such an abundance of money- losing rides - I might go as far as to say that *most* rides are money losers for drivers - that U/L know that all but the most oblivious drivers would decline these rides if they knew in advance. These rides are Uber's & Lyft's bread and butter, and they can't risk stranding these riders.


Think it thru. You were on the right track and then you jumped off...

Think about the reason WHY rides are money losers for drivers... because the pay is too LOW.

Think about WHY the drivers would decline those rides if they knew the destinations... because the pay is too LOW.

Thus, drivers are SUBSIDIZING those rides to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars per year.

By declining crappy unprofitable rides, the number of stranded pax would SKYROCKET, which would rapidly lead to the ruin of Uber.

Thus, Uber's very survival would require them to make those rides ATTRACTIVE to the drivers via higher pay rates and/or hefty incentives.

Thus, driver pay would rise dramatically, costing Uber BILLIONS of dollars in additional driver compensation.

Thus, Uber has BILLIONS of reasons to hide destinations from the drivers.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Some rides are as profitable as other rides but end places people would discriminate against. Uber has an interest not just in keeping customers but _expanding the network_. The idea is that you will use the service more if you get a ride quickly and drivers just accept everything.

I talk to some passengers who "prefer" Lyft when it is 50 cents cheaper for a ride but choose Uber when the car they can order is more convenient. This is a network advantage that Uber has in most markets that they are seeking to keep or expand. If drivers have more information about rides, they may be less willing participants in the scheme to expand the network.

It's not just about holding driver pay low - the rideshare companies do that with the rates themselves. Uber is perfectly happy to lose money on certain rides (even paying the driver way more than strictly necessary on sticky surge where the passenger pays non-surge but the driver earns surge) to keep the wait times low and the network coverage predictable and consistent.


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


But what about those people who only want to go one block because they are lazy? And what about the shoppers at your local grocery shops who live very close to the store but still need help with groceries? Would you still pick em up if you knew how short the ride was? or are you that selfish driver who only cares about his fat payout.... you sir, are no different than uber! Shame on you!


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## alvarezca (Mar 7, 2018)

dmoney155 said:


> But what about those people who only want to go one block because they are lazy? And what about the shoppers at your local grocery shops who live very close to the store but still need help with groceries? Would you still pick em up if you knew how short the ride was? or are you that selfish driver who only cares about his fat payout.... you sir, are no different than uber! Shame on you!


You sir,is an ass kiser!


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

alvarezca said:


> You sir,is an ass kiser!


I think he was actually being sarcastic.


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## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

When I started I had all sorts of information about pax. Through the app. Then drivers started discriminating on poor Mohammed and Tyrel. Not to mention Princess, Precious, and D.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I can imagine a ride that might be a money looser, but I don’t think I’ve ever had one. I get it that a 10 min ride after a 2 hour wait might not be the best use of my time, but it dosent lose me money. In fact the short rides pay more per mile than the long rides. 

It’s the dead miles that kill you or better said it’s the ratio; dead miles to paid miles I would love to be able to reject any ride where the dead miles exceed paid miles but I don’t have the information to do that without Uber pro

So I worked to improve my acceptance rate to 85% and qualify for Uber pro. Now I have the information I need to make a decision. 

Bottom line is I’m a fan of Uber pro and believe I make more money taking rides then rejecting them


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

oldfart said:


> I can imagine a ride that might be a money looser, but I don't think I've ever had one. I get it that a 10 min ride after a 2 hour wait might not be the best use of my time, but it dosent lose me money. In fact the short rides pay more per mile than the long rides.
> 
> It's the dead miles that kill you or better said it's the ratio; dead miles to paid miles I would love to be able to reject any ride where the dead miles exceed paid miles but I don't have the information to do that without Uber pro
> 
> ...


You don't think you ever had a money losing ride? LMFAO. After reading your post twice there seems to be only two educated conclusions I can come to. The first is that you are writing this as an Uber troll and get paid to write such propaganda that is misleading for the purpose of attempting to make Uber driving look better than it is. The second would be that you just don't understand numbers. Have you calculated your "earnings" minus employee taxes? employer taxes? depreciation? insurance? maintenance? cell phone use? time? I cannot believe you are an actual driver when you say you don't think you ever had a money losing ride......most rides are subsidized by the drivers via their pay. You ARE losing money every time you start driving. As for the 85% AR, this tells me you are accepting more than the average share of non-profitable rides as that is the only way to get to that percent and maintain it. Uber loves drivers that think like you hence the reason I believe you are likely being paid by Uber to write such garbage.


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## TPAMB (Feb 13, 2019)

oldfart said:


> Bottom line is I'm a fan of Uber pro and believe I make more money taking rides then rejecting them


And this is a very slippery slope to losing your Uber pro status as you decline these informed rides, so declines your AR and your back to where you started....... no destination or duration info. Add in all the crappy rides you took to get to Pro and... well........


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> When I started I had all sorts of information about pax. Through the app. Then drivers started discriminating on poor Mohammed and Tyrel. Not to mention Princess, Precious, and D.


Discriminating? I work for tips as the pay is below minimum wage. I don't put myself in neighborhoods for $3 with the high possibility of getting shot or robbed. It is sad that names speak volumes about the potential riders but that does not mean I should go into dangerous neighborhoods or pick up entitled snowflakes of which both are known for non-tipping, high-maintenance riders who WILL down rate you which then impacts the algorithm and future rides you will get. I don't agree with discrimination but I also don't agree with a company that illegally pays drivers below minimum wage to pick up paxoles that are entitled, don't tip, and many times are in neighborhoods I will not go......all of this while the driver is ultimately losing money/subsidizing the trip.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

This all goes to show how flawed the whole “we aren’t a transportation company, we just connect those who have rides with those who need it” argument is.

If that were true, we would get to decide who they connect us with based on the kind of rides we want to give. 

But not only do we not get to see the destination, they have made it increasingly more difficult to pinpoint the pickup location as well (remember when we used to get the pickup address on the ping)? I swear on Uber, the ping times out faster if I try to zoom in too close to where the pickup location is. 

And we wouldn’t be forced to take Pool pings either.


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## DoubleDee (Apr 22, 2019)

The whole term rideshare is a complete crock of crap. If it were really sharing a ride then there would be unlimited destination filters.

If not for Uber I would never drive to Newark or Patterson NJ. So I wouldn't be "sharing" a ride there.



nouberipo said:


> Discriminating? I don't put myself in neighborhoods for $3 with the high possibility of getting shot or robbed. I don't agree with discrimination.


It's not dicrimination to not want to pick up Shaquanda or Baby G in some hood rat neighborhod in Newark New Jersey. It's common sense.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

CTK said:


> While I totally agree that not seeing destination greatly hurts our pay, I disagree that drivers' pay is the reason for U/L's opposition to showing destination. I think that there is such an abundance of money- losing rides - I might go as far as to say that *most* rides are money losers for drivers - that U/L know that all but the most oblivious drivers would decline these rides if they knew in advance. These rides are Uber's & Lyft's bread and butter, and they can't risk stranding these riders.


All this non-sense would go away if they just made min fare rides profitable for drivers. Even at $5 for a min fare it would be more reasonable. $7 would be ideal. At $7 per ride it's not difficult, unless driver saturation or slow, to make $20+/hr. That is only 3 rides an hour Yea yea, you got expenses, but if you are pounding min fares you aren't putting many miles on and 3 min fare is slow you should be able to do 4+/hr. Charging $10 for a ride is still reasonable for the PAX. If it's to much for a PAX, they should take other forms of transportation that are within their budget.

Uber/Lyft make very high margin on these rides. So instead they resort to crap practices to entice drivers to take these. My market it's not a huge deal, as generally only have a couple min fares before a longer one comes through.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

I think the reason both RS giants don't is for the very reason you post: cherry picking would result in pax not getting ANY driver accepting their ride. And bigger picture would mean fewer requests. What's the saying cutting your nose off despite your face?

I want more info on the ping, but it really wouldn't change much for me. Accept maybe a long trip when I didn't have the time to complete before going 'off shift'. I just want to know all the info and longer than a measly 15 seconds to decide. 

Seem is calif Uber is testing having the info on the ping, but it is random so far. I tested, no info. :cryin:


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

As soon as there is a shortage of drivers Uber will either reveal pax destinations or increase driver rates.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


How is that revenue lost when it's spread around to all drivers?

If you can cherry pick only the rides you want to do how do you think that would serve riders especially the ones who want to go shorter distances.

What screws drivers is Uber keeping $5 on short rides and paying you $2 for your labor, gas, car and maintenance.


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## Transportador (Sep 15, 2015)

Guys, have you not heard about UberPro? Get to Platinum and Diamond level and you get to see trip duration ahead of time. Nothing like that on Lyft though. Uber wants you to drive just for them and accept most pings to stay at these levels. But you do get to ignore a few lousy rides, especially when you are in areas known for longer rides.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Transportador said:


> Guys, have you not heard about UberPro?


hard pass. PTimers really don't have a chance to get to gold. It's a unicorn. A blue unicorn during a purple full moon.....


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## Uberbrent (Mar 22, 2016)

How are drivers losing billions of dollars when all the passengers are still being picked up? You personally may feel that you are somehow losing based on some other driver getting a longer ride, but in a socialistic way all rides are being covered. The same money is being spent for rides wether you receive them or not. There is no loss of billions. I bet you are one of the ants clamoring for a union as well. Guess what, someone still has to pick up those pax.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

How?

Lots of assertions, no facts, not even any explanation.

So what if you're not advised in advance of the destination? All that might mean is you can't try to skim the gravy. Those short trips still take place. Income to Uber remains the same.

I've addressed the foolishness of trying to cherry pick only the "good" trips before. Have you never heard "a bird in the hand beats two in the bush?"

But, what the heck. I have only 11K trips over three years. I can't possibly know anything about this topic


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## BigBadJohn (Aug 31, 2018)

Uber Pro? More like Uber Con. Forced to take low rated pax, long distance pick ups all for breadcrumb rewards of knowing the direction of pax destination. Wow. And some here praise the all mighty Uber for their outstanding treatment of drivers. SMH...


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

CTK said:


> While I totally agree that not seeing destination greatly hurts our pay, I disagree that drivers' pay is the reason for U/L's opposition to showing destination. I think that there is such an abundance of money- losing rides - I might go as far as to say that *most* rides are money losers for drivers - that U/L know that all but the most oblivious drivers would decline these rides if they knew in advance. These rides are Uber's & Lyft's bread and butter, and they can't risk stranding these riders.


Minumum Fares that ACTUALLY COVER DRIVERS COSTS

WOULD SOLVE THIS " CREATED PROBLEM ".

DRIVERS SUBSIDISE UBER MORE THAN INVESTORS !


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

One word.... well well two words

Cherry picking


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Ya if the minimum trip paid to a driver was $10 US. Would you take more of them ? Of course you would.

What I'm thinking of is, If the per trip had a sliding scale, So that the longer the trip the per mile and per minute would decrease as the distance gets longer.


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## RideshareUSA (Feb 7, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


No shit, Sherlock! ?


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

I just declined a 10 minute pick up on a 2 minute ride! Sick! If the ride had been 20 minutes, I’d have accepted. Uber pro is handy af!

Hell yeah uber should provide this info on every ride without caveat! But they don’t. Not taking advantage of this helpful tool out of spite is silly.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


--------------------------------
Although I believe that your reasoning is a bit shaky, Lyft shows the distance and direction of the trip. They just do not show the fare nor the drivers pay and never will. There will always be drivers that will take any and all trips, there is no reason for U/L to show any information. As I see it, there is no difference in buying a new refrigerator and not knowing the stores mark-up. The concept is when you log on, you, as the driver, take what is sent your way. Cherry picking trips is not part of the deal. This only means that other drivers have to take up the slack that you have created.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Uber pro is handy af!


at a huge cost. All the info should be provided on the ping. Drivers cherry pick now, they will cherry pick anyway. Except far fewer CANCELS. Oh Uber. -o:


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

SHalester said:


> PTimers really don't have a chance to get to gold.


It shouldn't be that difficult to get Platinum. I drive part time (7-9 am & 5-7 pm) and I got it fairly easy.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

KK2929 said:


> The concept is when you log on, you, as the driver, take what is sent your way.


that's what will happen in calif after 1/1. :cryin:



Syn said:


> It shouldn't be that difficult to get Platinum. I drive part time (7-9 am & 5-7 pm) and I got it fairly easy.


with 1pt rides? riiiigghhhhttttt, let me work on that and get back to you.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Lee239 said:


> How is that revenue lost when it's spread around to all drivers?
> 
> If you can cherry pick only the rides you want to do how do you think that would serve riders especially the ones who want to go shorter distances.
> 
> What screws drivers is Uber keeping $5 on short rides and paying you $2 for your labor, gas, car and maintenance.


The lost revenue isn't spread around to other drivers, it goes straight to Uber's bank account.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

1.5xorbust said:


> As soon as there is a shortage of drivers Uber will either reveal pax destinations or increase driver rates.


Haha ya, still holding your breath ?



Transportador said:


> Guys, have you not heard about UberPro? Get to Platinum and Diamond level and you get to see trip duration ahead of time. Nothing like that on Lyft though. Uber wants you to drive just for them and accept most pings to stay at these levels. But you do get to ignore a few lousy rides, especially when you are in areas known for longer rides.


Lyft , just maintain 90% AR. No BS games to reach a status symbol , No BS points to make you FEEL good.


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## BigBadJohn (Aug 31, 2018)

W00dbutcher said:


> One word.... well well two words
> 
> Cherry picking


Independent Contractor


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


Uber and Lyft tied this in at the hip with discrimination from the beginning. There is zero chance of this changing without massive public push back.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

And Riders still think we know the destination before we pick them up.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Uberbrent said:


> How are drivers losing billions of dollars when all the passengers are still being picked up?


The only reason they all get picked up is because the drivers don't know how much the trip pays until AFTER the pax gets into their cars.

If the drivers knew the destination in advance, many pax wouldn't get picked up at the garbage rates we're being paid.

Uber would then be forced to offer the driver MORE MONEY to entice him/her to accept the trip.



Uberbrent said:


> You personally may feel that you are somehow losing based on some other driver getting a longer ride, but in a socialistic way all rides are being covered. The same money is being spent for rides wether you receive them or not. There is no loss of billions. I bet you are one of the ants clamoring for a union as well. Guess what, someone still has to pick up those pax.


You're one of those people who throw the word "socialist" around yet don't know how economics works.

ALL drivers are losing out to Uber whether they take short, medium or long trips.

I'm not interested in being an employee or joining a union, of which only employees can belong.

If drivers know destinations in advance, many pax will NOT be picked up until Uber RAISES the pay to sufficient levels.


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## UberchickATL (Apr 27, 2018)

dmoney155 said:


> But what about those people who only want to go one block because they are lazy? And what about the shoppers at your local grocery shops who live very close to the store but still need help with groceries? Would you still pick em up if you knew how short the ride was? or are you that selfish driver who only cares about his fat payout.... you sir, are no different than uber! Shame on you!


Bahaha fat payout??? I don't know where you drive but those short rides involve about 15-20 minutes of my time and even though I always help with groceries (helps speed the process), I rarely get tipped. And my fat payout is $3.

The real shame is on u/l for not upping the minimum fare amount and the cheap passengers that don't tip for our valuable service. Shame on them.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

CTK said:


> While I totally agree that not seeing destination greatly hurts our pay, I disagree that drivers' pay is the reason for U/L's opposition to showing destination. I think that there is such an abundance of money- losing rides - I might go as far as to say that *most* rides are money losers for drivers - that U/L know that all but the most oblivious drivers would decline these rides if they knew in advance. These rides are Uber's & Lyft's bread and butter, and they can't risk stranding these riders.


Stranded pax is the extremely powerful leverage the drivers would have that would force Uber into raising driver pay to levels high enough to entice drivers into picking those pax up.



Karen Stein said:


> How?
> 
> Lots of assertions, no facts, not even any explanation.


Try using common sense and the laws of supply and demand and you'll come up with the correct answer.

All but the most zombie-like ants would become much more choosy about the rides they accept if they know the destination in advance.

Thus, Uber would be forced to raise driver pay to levels high enough to get undesirable rides accepted.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Still only community-organizer rhetoric, with a veiled insult.

"Let's force .... " is hardly the voice of reason, persuation, or freedom. Instead, it's the voice if division and tyranny.

Not for this girl.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Uber and Lyft tied this in at the hip with discrimination from the beginning. There is zero chance of this changing without massive public push back.


Correct.

Both companies cynically and dishonestly will try to hide behind racial discrimination as the reason they have to hide destinations.

The fact is Uber redlines minority areas.

Here in DC, when Boosts were common, the minority wards of DC had few rush hour Boosts, which resulted in perpetual surges in those wards. Black pax were thus forced to pay higher prices for their rides as a result.

In 2016, Uber tried to get away with paying Detroit drivers an incredibly low 24 cents per mile. It backfired when surges went thru the roof.

Don't think for a second that Uber doesn't use race as a criteria for matching pax and drivers.



W00dbutcher said:


> One word.... well well two words
> 
> Cherry picking


Uber's a fanatical cherry picker.

Their spy agency attempts to learn everything they can about their pax (probably including the pax' sex and bathroom habits) and they use that info to help calculate how much they'll charge for the ride.



Lee239 said:


> If you can cherry pick only the rides you want to do how do you think that would serve riders especially the ones who want to go shorter distances.


The pax wouldn't get served unless the pay was high enough to entice drivers to accept the trip.



DriverMark said:


> All this non-sense would go away if they just made min fare rides profitable for drivers. Even at $5 for a min fare it would be more reasonable. $7 would be ideal. At $7 per ride it's not difficult, unless driver saturation or slow, to make $20+/hr. That is only 3 rides an hour Yea yea, you got expenses, but if you are pounding min fares you aren't putting many miles on and 3 min fare is slow you should be able to do 4+/hr. Charging $10 for a ride is still reasonable for the PAX. If it's to much for a PAX, they should take other forms of transportation that are within their budget.
> 
> Uber/Lyft make very high margin on these rides. So instead they resort to crap practices to entice drivers to take these. My market it's not a huge deal, as generally only have a couple min fares before a longer one comes through.


I've done more than my share of shit rides, and I can tell you $5 minimum fare wouldn't be nearly enough to get me to accept any of them.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

oldfart said:


> I can imagine a ride that might be a money looser, but I don't think I've ever had one. I get it that a 10 min ride after a 2 hour wait might not be the best use of my time, but it dosent lose me money. In fact the short rides pay more per mile than the long rides.
> 
> It's the dead miles that kill you or better said it's the ratio; dead miles to paid miles I would love to be able to reject any ride where the dead miles exceed paid miles but I don't have the information to do that without Uber pro
> 
> ...


Most crappy rides aren't actual money losers, their payouts are simply not worth the driver's time and effort.



KK2929 said:


> Although I believe that your reasoning is a bit shaky, Lyft shows the distance and direction of the trip.


Lyft doesn't show any info until AFTER you accept the trip AND you've arrived at the pickup.

So in order to find our where the pax is going, you have to waste time and gas driving to the pax.

And because Lyft takes a very hard stance against cancelling rides, using the destination info to avoid garbage rides puts you at risk of being fired.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

nouberipo said:


> You don't think you ever had a money losing ride? LMFAO. After reading your post twice there seems to be only two educated conclusions I can come to. The first is that you are writing this as an Uber troll and get paid to write such propaganda that is misleading for the purpose of attempting to make Uber driving look better than it is. The second would be that you just don't understand numbers. Have you calculated your "earnings" minus employee taxes? employer taxes? depreciation? insurance? maintenance? cell phone use? time? I cannot believe you are an actual driver when you say you don't think you ever had a money losing ride......most rides are subsidized by the drivers via their pay. You ARE losing money every time you start driving. As for the 85% AR, this tells me you are accepting more than the average share of non-profitable rides as that is the only way to get to that percent and maintain it. Uber loves drivers that think like you hence the reason I believe you are likely being paid by Uber to write such garbage.


yes Ive run all the numbers for the expenses you catalog in your post and my costs are

annual miles driven 70000

employee taxes... o
employer taxes... 0
depreciation.... 8 cents/mile
insurance ....7 cents per mile
maintenance and repairs 5 cents per mile
cell phone use 1 cent per mile
gas 12 cents per mile

total 33 cents per mile

I typically dont look at this thing a ride at a time...but here goes 
in my market we are paid a long pick up fee for a pick up more than 10 min... so worst case is a 10 minute pick up (everything after that is paid) so lets assume a 10 min pickup...At 30 miles per hour thats 5 miles so my cost to get to the passenger is $1.65 A short ride here pays a minimum fare of $2.38 Assume a 2 mile ride.. now I have 7 miles or $2.31 invested That makes for a 7 cent profit

as i see it thats worst case.. You will note, I dont consider my time. As I suggested in my post, there are much better things i can do with my time, but most of them cost me money..I wasnt responding to time lost, i was responding to folks here (like you) that say we lose money on some rides we dont. and I often capitalize on those short rides,,almost every one gets my card promoting my airport ride business, Often times a $2 ride from the Ritz Carlton to dinner at a nearby restaurant turns into a $45 ride to the airport a few days later

Im a cash flow kinda guy.. Since depreciation is not an out of pocket expense, I dont consider it 
I do set money aside for a new car, but the money in my reserve account is not an expense; its my money

the car is an investment in my business,, I started this thing with a car that I paid $25000 for...As time goes on the car loses value and the savings account gains value.. I start with a $25000 car and no savings, and after time I have .a $0 car and savings of $25000 The business neither loses money nor makes money and I take money out every month



Nats121 said:


> Most crappy rides aren't actual money losers, their payouts are simply not worth the driver's time and effort.
> 
> 
> Lyft doesn't show any info until AFTER you accept the trip AND you've arrived at the pickup.
> ...


"Most crappy rides aren't actual money losers, their payouts are simply not worth the driver's time and effort." thats my point exactly

and regarding Lyft, I havent deleted the app yet, but I dont do much with it since the introduction of Uber Pro


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## Bobbyk5487 (Jan 28, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


Im a diamind driver so I get the direction and time distance before I accept a trip...i don't see how not knowing the destination cost drivers anything


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## libingbing (Apr 17, 2017)

dmoney155 said:


> But what about those people who only want to go one block because they are lazy? And what about the shoppers at your local grocery shops who live very close to the store but still need help with groceries? Would you still pick em up if you knew how short the ride was? or are you that selfish driver who only cares about his fat payout.... you sir, are no different than uber! Shame on you!


Must cancel all rides at grocery stores !!!


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Bobbyk5487 said:


> Im a diamind driver so I get the direction and time distance before I accept a trip...i don't see how not knowing the destination cost drivers anything


Uber hiding the details is very aggravating.

I wish I could see what rides are on the way TO strip clubs and accept them. I wish I could see what rides are on the way FROM strip clubs and gated communities and reject them. I wish I could see what rides are on the way THROUGH school zones with 10 stoplights and reject them. I wish I could see which rides are heading TO my neighborhood where my house is to accept them.

When you take every ride, you get every puker, every person who will take you on a 45 minute couple mile journey infested with stoplights for $12 fare, every person who will require a 8 minute pickup for a $2.47 fare. I like the "arrive by" destination mode where it doesn't tell you that your ride has 2 stops and your passenger wants to wait 15 minutes at the first stop. How about, no, I need to arrive by 9 AM so I can't do a 2 stop ride. When you see where each ride is going, you will be on time to where you want to go, you will avoid money losing tips, and you can choose trips that put you in the places you want to be.


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Try using common sense and the laws of supply and demand and you'll come up with the correct answer.
> 
> All but the most zombie-like ants would become much more choosy about the rides they accept if they know the destination in advance.
> 
> Thus, Uber would be forced to raise driver pay to levels high enough to get undesirable rides accepted.


Yes pay for short rides would go up but for the same reason of supply and demand, pay for the longer rides would go down. The net result could easily be lower total pay. I would much rather cherry pick for the good rides under the present system: be very picky about pickup location and time of day, and feed on repeat customers, especially those that tip. If you happen to accept a dog (so to speak), cancel.



oldfart said:


> depreciation.... 8 cents/mile
> maintenance and repairs 5 cents per mile


These two number are incompatible. I smell some BS here.


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## Transportador (Sep 15, 2015)

SHalester said:


> hard pass. PTimers really don't have a chance to get to gold. It's a unicorn. A blue unicorn during a purple full moon.....


I am a part timer at Diamond. Very doable.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

lyft_rat said:


> Yes pay for short rides would go up but for the same reason of supply and demand, pay for the longer rides would go down. The net result could easily be lower total pay. I would much rather cherry pick for the good rides under the present system: be very picky about pickup location and time of day, and feed on repeat customers, especially those that tip. If you happen to accept a dog (so to speak), cancel.


The pay for ALL rides would go UP.


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## Bobbyk5487 (Jan 28, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> Uber hiding the details is very aggravating.
> 
> I wish I could see what rides are on the way TO strip clubs and accept them. I wish I could see what rides are on the way FROM strip clubs and gated communities and reject them. I wish I could see what rides are on the way THROUGH school zones with 10 stoplights and reject them. I wish I could see which rides are heading TO my neighborhood where my house is to accept them.
> 
> When you take every ride, you get every puker, every person who will take you on a 45 minute couple mile journey infested with stoplights for $12 fare, every person who will require a 8 minute pickup for a $2.47 fare. I like the "arrive by" destination mode where it doesn't tell you that your ride has 2 stops and your passenger wants to wait 15 minutes at the first stop. How about, no, I need to arrive by 9 AM so I can't do a 2 stop ride. When you see where each ride is going, you will be on time to where you want to go, you will avoid money losing tips, and you can choose trips that put you in the places you want to be.


I wish I could be a bikini inspector on south beach....but life ain't fair....we all got our load to carry


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Transportador said:


> I am a part timer at Diamond. Very doable.


not at 1pt rides and not maybe 3 hours a day 4x a day. and really, what for? Really nothing that makes my day. Just a wee bit more info on the ping; big whuppin deal.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> The pay for ALL rides would go UP.


And the rideshare companies fear the passenger rates would have to go up too, harming demand, helping the other app, pissing off investors. If I were them I would be wary of giving drivers more. Oversupply is a good problem for them to have even if it's terrible for us.


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## Transportador (Sep 15, 2015)

SHalester said:


> not at 1pt rides and not maybe 3 hours a day 4x a day. and really, what for? Really nothing that makes my day. Just a wee bit more info on the ping; big whuppin deal.


It helps me cherry pick. The difference between a 10 minutes airport ride versus 45 minutes ride is enough reason for me.

Of course I don't drive just to keep my UberPro level. I'm just saying it ain't hard to get there and maintain it for me. If they let me see trip duration I ain't going to complain, like this post is saying.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Transportador said:


> It helps me cherry pick.


i don't. I do go offline when I don't want a 2nd poo pax or when I do an airport drop off. 
If more in calif get the more info ping I'm all for it. But won't use the info to decline. I get a ping, I accept. Ant ant I'm am. Just want more info, longer decision time etc.


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## 2smart2drive (Jul 9, 2019)

dmoney155 said:


> But what about those people who only want to go one block because they are lazy? And what about the shoppers at your local grocery shops who live very close to the store but still need help with groceries? Would you still pick em up if you knew how short the ride was? or are you that selfish driver who only cares about his fat payout.... you sir, are no different than uber! Shame on you!


What "Fat Payouts"? L/Uber drivers aren't airline pilots: besides occasional luck, overwhelming majority of ride-share trips are LEAN as f*ck.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Syn said:


> It shouldn't be that difficult to get Platinum. I drive part time (7-9 am & 5-7 pm) and I got it fairly easy.





Transportador said:


> I am a part timer at Diamond. Very doable.


Doable for some, impossible for others. This is because what one driver considers PT can be very different from another. While some people have the freedom to work the rush hours, others (such as myself) do not.

I do only early morning airport runs as that is the only time I have free to drive if I want to spend time with my family. The most amout of rides I've done in one month is just under 100. I will never get out of Blue with those numbers and there is nothing that Pro offers that make me want to sacrifice family time in order to get.

Also, some markets are busier than others. While it may be feasible for some PTers in one market, it may not be possible on others. I have a PTer friend who was able to reach it no problem in Boston. But he moved to Sarasota FL and has been stuck in Blue since.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> This all goes to show how flawed the whole "we aren't a transportation company, we just connect those who have rides with those who need it" argument is.
> 
> If that were true, we would get to decide who they connect us with based on the kind of rides we want to give.
> 
> ...


That's our payment processor for you.


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

nouberipo said:


> You don't think you ever had a money losing ride? LMFAO. After reading your post twice there seems to be only two educated conclusions I can come to. The first is that you are writing this as an Uber troll and get paid to write such propaganda that is misleading for the purpose of attempting to make Uber driving look better than it is. The second would be that you just don't understand numbers. Have you calculated your "earnings" minus employee taxes? employer taxes? depreciation? insurance? maintenance? cell phone use? time? I cannot believe you are an actual driver when you say you don't think you ever had a money losing ride......most rides are subsidized by the drivers via their pay. You ARE losing money every time you start driving. As for the 85% AR, this tells me you are accepting more than the average share of non-profitable rides as that is the only way to get to that percent and maintain it. Uber loves drivers that think like you hence the reason I believe you are likely being paid by Uber to write such garbage.


Both of your conclusions are wrong. Old Fart drives in my market. We have chatted and corresponded several times. He has been both my passenger and my driver on occasion. He is one of the more successful drivers I know in this market. He knows his costs to the penny. He tracks a variety of metrics in the effort to improve his bottom line. He knows his market. He has a strategy and method that works for him in this market.

YOU sir, don't know what the hell you are talking about. I would venture to guess you could learn a thing or two by listening to him and trying to learn rather than name calling, arguing, and trying to bolster your own negative self image by acting as though you are somehow superior in knowledge.


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## theMezz (Sep 29, 2018)

Transportador said:


> Guys, have you not heard about UberPro? Get to Platinum and Diamond level and you get to see trip duration ahead of time. Nothing like that on Lyft though. Uber wants you to drive just for them and accept most pings to stay at these levels. But you do get to ignore a few lousy rides, especially when you are in areas known for longer rides.


what good is it? Get to a level to see trip details and subsequently decline some and then your back to below the level to see rides. It's all psy-ops on us to keep us driving. It IS


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Bobbyk5487 said:


> I wish I could be a bikini inspector on south beach....but life ain't fair....we all got our load to carry


Or Uber could just change the pay system so every trip was profitable to prevent cherrypicking instead of trying to force bad trips on drivers and hoping the good trips will make the drivers happy enough to take the bad ones.

Really, if Uber would make the minimum payout to the driver like $7 per ride, add long pickup fees to all trips of all types, increase the wait time pay to about double, and restore realistic cleaning fees, there wouldn't be much need to cherry pick. It's the $2.47 fares where Uber charges the pax $6.15, that take 15 minutes to complete that kill it.


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## Riley3262019 (Mar 26, 2019)

CTK said:


> While I totally agree that not seeing destination greatly hurts our pay, I disagree that drivers' pay is the reason for U/L's opposition to showing destination. I think that there is such an abundance of money- losing rides - I might go as far as to say that *most* rides are money losers for drivers - that U/L know that all but the most oblivious drivers would decline these rides if they knew in advance. These rides are Uber's & Lyft's bread and butter, and they can't risk stranding these riders.


A valid viewpoint. Can be resolved by having them pay more if there is no one within a 2 minute radius to pick up the rider.


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## Drivincrazy (Feb 14, 2016)

Frequently I'll text pax before pickup:
Whereugoing? 
I often get the answer. I also take any phone call opportunity to always ask: "where u going?"

I only cancel rarely, but, if I don't like the answer...I do cancel.

Depending on your location and situation, Uber Pro can cost you money and time. In heavy traffic, on the Strip in LV...forget it. If you take all the difficult pickups...you'll lose much time in traffic trying to keep your a.r. up. In summer time, idling with ac on is not free...significant gas can be burned trying to get to pax. And, what if they then cancel on you, unpaid...

If you commit to a loser pickup in terms of time and distance...that is time burned you can't get surge rides. I do 98% surge. I want complete flexibility when I'm rolling the Strip. I don't have to worry about anything Uber Pro...which rewards do not interest me. I get the info I need/want before pax gets in my car...one way or another.

Be careful with Uber Pro...it might just be costing you time and money and you aren't aware of it or don't want to be aware of it.

Uber Pro rewards are miniscule.


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## NUBER-LE (Jul 21, 2017)

dmoney155 said:


> But what about those people who only want to go one block because they are lazy? And what about the shoppers at your local grocery shops who live very close to the store but still need help with groceries? Would you still pick em up if you knew how short the ride was? or are you that selfish driver who only cares about his fat payout.... you sir, are no different than uber! Shame on you!


I am in it to make money not for charity. If you want to be a charity and give free rides feel free.


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## MasterAbsher (Oct 16, 2019)

Somewhere on Uber website it says they do this to prevent discrimination. As an example, if most or all drivers refused to go certain area, regardless of reason, the freaken ACLU would be all over it. Not saying I agree with the policy, but I understand it.


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## Bobbyk5487 (Jan 28, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> Or Uber could just change the pay system so every trip was profitable to prevent cherrypicking instead of trying to force bad trips on drivers and hoping the good trips will make the drivers happy enough to take the bad ones.
> 
> Really, if Uber would make the minimum payout to the driver like $7 per ride, add long pickup fees to all trips of all types, increase the wait time pay to about double, and restore realistic cleaning fees, there wouldn't be much need to cherry pick. It's the $2.47 fares where Uber charges the pax $6.15, that take 15 minutes to complete that kill it.


Keep begging for change and uber gonna change just like lyft did....for the worst


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Bobbyk5487 said:


> Im a diamind driver so I get the direction and time distance before I accept a trip.


IMO the main thing for Uber is that all trips get covered within a reasonable time. They have nothing against showing the above info to drivers with qualifying acceptance rates. If all drivers kept the necessary 85% acceptance rate, then presumably, even the worst rides would get covered. Which is why Uber doesn't mind showing that info. OTOH the OP is saying they should show it to every driver regardless, which is something completely different, and would be more likely to force a rate increase or restructure of some kind.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

I suspect there will be many changes coming very soon in calif due to AB5 and those might populate out depending if successful. I'd' sure like getting paid from ping acceptance and all info on the ping. The ping itself longer than 15 seconds. Can't even read it when driving. sheesh.


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## BogusServiceAnimal (Oct 28, 2019)

MasterAbsher said:


> Somewhere on Uber website it says they do this to prevent discrimination. As an example, if most or all drivers refused to go certain area, regardless of reason, the freaken ACLU would be all over it. Not saying I agree with the policy, but I understand it.


So why do delivery apps show you the destination? The logic doesn't follow.


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## MasterAbsher (Oct 16, 2019)

BogusServiceAnimal said:


> So why do delivery apps show you the destination? The logic doesn't follow.


Uber doesn't show it until you accept it. Not sure logic has anything to do with anything anymore


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## BogusServiceAnimal (Oct 28, 2019)

MasterAbsher said:


> Uber doesn't show it until you accept it. Not sure logic has anything to do with anything anymore


Oh, I know. I just find it odd that delivery services are more forthright with all of the trip information.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Bobbyk5487 said:


> Keep begging for change and uber gonna change just like lyft did....for the worst


I'm pretty sure Uber will follow Lyft into the death spiral of prices anyway. Only a matter of time before $0.30/mi is the pay. I will jump ship before it gets that bad, but the payday advance crowd people who have too bad of credit for a payday advance loan might be numerous enough to keep both companies operational.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> Or Uber could just change the pay system so every trip was profitable to prevent cherrypicking instead of trying to force bad trips on drivers and hoping the good trips will make the drivers happy enough to take the bad ones.
> 
> Really, if Uber would make the minimum payout to the driver like $7 per ride, add long pickup fees to all trips of all types, increase the wait time pay to about double, and restore realistic cleaning fees, there wouldn't be much need to cherry pick. It's the $2.47 fares where Uber charges the pax $6.15, that take 15 minutes to complete that kill it.


If the wait time charge was doubled all pax would be toes to the curve. That alone would add tons of money to our bottom line.

Fk it quadruple that wait time fee and let the late and lazy foot the bill.


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## Merc49 (Apr 30, 2019)

Uber and lyft are going to take and take and take until ALL DRIVERS say to hell with it and all quit on the same day. Now since that is never going to happen you just work for them or you dont, end of discussion.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> I think he was actually being sarcastic.


Unfortunately in this format it's not always obvious which posts are sarcasm. We need a sarcasm font.



kc ub'ing! said:


> I just declined a 10 minute pick up on a 2 minute ride! Sick! If the ride had been 20 minutes, I'd have accepted. Uber pro is handy af!
> 
> Hell yeah uber should provide this info on every ride without caveat! But they don't. Not taking advantage of this helpful tool out of spite is silly.


So Uber Pro decreases your AR?


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

goneubering said:


> So Uber Pro increases your CR?


No. Declining rides affects AR. To continue the benefit, AR must be 85+. I juggle disposing of unprofitable rides: declining outright or accepting then canceling depending on which has more leeway, my AR or CR.

Once my AR drops to 85 and my CR is at 2%, I'll cancel a few as my AR builds, mindful not to let CR get above 4%. The goal being maintaining platinum.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

lyft_rat said:


> These two number are incompatible. I smell some BS here.


How so???

The numbers are independent of each other

I started this with 70000 miles on the odometer And projected 3 years of Uber at 70000 miles a year. (A total of about 309000miles) I paid $25000 for the car Divide that by 300000 and you get 8.33 cents per mile

5 cents a mile for maintenance over 70000 miles a year is $3500/ year. Over the two years I've been doing this I haven't spent that much

Perhaps you are saying that, as the car depreciates, maintenance costs will go up, making my $3500 a year maintenance budget unrealistic.

I know expecting 300000 miles from my car while spending only $10000 to maintain it is optimistic. If it turns out I'm wrong, I'll adjust the numbers. But the fact is I'm currently working under budget.

In any case I'm already shopping for another car and talking to folks about an engine rebuild Like a boy scout I intend to be prepared

My numbers are not incomparable



kc ub'ing! said:


> No. Declining rides affects AR. To continue the benefit, AR must be 85+. I juggle disposing of unprofitable rides: declining outright or accepting then canceling depending on which has more leeway, my AR or CR.
> 
> Once my AR drops to 85 and my CR is at 2%, I'll cancel a few as my AR builds, mindful not to let CR get above 4%. The goal being maintaining platinum.


What he said


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

oldfart said:


> How so???
> 
> The numbers are independent of each other
> 
> ...


You can project anything you want, but you are NOT going to get 300,000 mile out of that car on 5 cents a mile maintenance. In spite of what you may read, very few cars make it to 300k. You haven't faced big repairs yet, such as timing belt, head gasket, transmission, or the fender-bender that puts the car down.


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## chris.nella2 (Aug 29, 2018)

dmoney155 said:


> But what about those people who only want to go one block because they are lazy? And what about the shoppers at your local grocery shops who live very close to the store but still need help with groceries? Would you still pick em up if you knew how short the ride was? or are you that selfish driver who only cares about his fat payout.... you sir, are no different than uber! Shame on you!


I have been shamed!!!...bc my cancel rate would be astronomical if I could see destination.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


Show your math


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

KK2929 said:


> The concept is when you log on, you, as the driver, take what is sent your way.
> 
> Cherry picking trips is not part of the deal. This only means that other drivers have to take up the slack that you have created.


If I were an employee then yes I'd have to take what is sent my way.

As the rules currently are written, cherrypicking IS part of the deal.

I'm a proud cherrypicking Longhauler and will continue to be until they change the system.

If my continued cherrypicking for trips I want leaves the shitty $3.75 for 20 minute trips for the ants with the paper license plates and the White Earpiece dangling from their ear, sorry not sorry.

If my continued cherrypicking for a profitable ride I want causes an entitled snowflake millennial to wait an extra 37 seconds for her ride to her SoulCycle class, sorry not sorry.

When I drive it's to make money, not provide charity. If I want to do community service with my car I'll do ****ing Meals on Wheels (which I do on occasion).



Lee239 said:


> If you can cherry pick only the rides you want to do how do you think that would serve riders especially the ones who want to go shorter distances.


Frankly IDGAF about the riders being inconvenienced. A LOT of those trips* people could walk and get there in the same amount of time as waiting for a ride then puttering there in rush hour traffic.

There's no constitutional right to a cheap personal ride. People got around prior to Uber/Lyft. Walking or the bus are still options.

*I realize there are people with disabilities who can't walk even a short distance. They're not included in this. I gladly take anyone with a walker or collapsible wheelchair and gladly put it in the trunk no issue.


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## JT_Rideshare (Oct 2, 2019)

I just wish they paid for our mileage getting to the passenger. And not that dumb switch that Lyft did (lowering main ride mileage to 30 cents/mile in exchange for pickup mileage).
If we are on the clock once we accept a ride, then shouldn't Uber & Lyft legally have to pay us the minimum federal rate of 58 cents/mile? 
If not they should.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


Not sure about this. I think people turn to Uber because they know they can get a ride reliably. If we knew destinations then obviously very few drivers would do the shit rides. Pax would get to know which rides they'd have a chance of getting a driver for and which not, but there would be a lot of doubt. A one mile trip would be a crap ride with driver unlikely, but what about a two mile ride, or three. A lot of pax would be put off by this and not request at all.

Also, the good thing now is that there are many, many ants who chase the Uber Pro nonsense, and they vacuum up all the bad rides - they will take anything and everything, freeing up the better rides for the more experienced drivers. The reason Uber introduced "Pro" was to reduce cherry picking, and it's working by keeping ants occupied chasing their tails - for this reason it's of great benefit to skilled drivers.

If we knew destinations then drivers would sit around only willing to take trips over 5, 10 or however many miles they set their minimum at. Those trips would get snapped up and I'm not sure that there would be enough of them to go around. It may end up that drivers would have to take the shorter trips anyway just to keep their revenue up.

Maybe knowing the destination wouldn't be as good as we might think it would be for these reasons.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


The only way ride share works is if drivers accept trips that are against their own self interest. If Uber and Lyft drivers knew the destination of every trip before accepting, 1/2 the trips would never get picked up at all. Not because of destination discrimination necessarily, but because the trip is a money losing one. Uber and Lyft depend on driver ignorance to keep those $3 booking fees flowing.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


It also costs ALL taxpayers since those unproductive miles by drivers are deducted as expenses when drivers do their taxes.

In reality we all subsidize Uber.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

observer said:


> It also costs ALL taxpayers since those unproductive miles by drivers are deducted as expenses when drivers do their taxes.
> 
> In reality we all subsidize Uber.


I'll add to that by pointing out that due to the garbage pay rates, the vast majority of full time drivers qualify for public assistance.



The Gift of Fish said:


> Not sure about this. I think people turn to Uber because they know they can get a ride reliably. If we knew destinations then obviously very few drivers would do the shit rides. Pax would get to know which rides they'd have a chance of getting a driver for and which not, but there would be a lot of doubt. A one mile trip would be a crap ride with driver unlikely, but what about a two mile ride, or three. A lot of pax would be put off by this and not request at all.
> 
> Also, the good thing now is that there are many, many ants who chase the Uber Pro nonsense, and they vacuum up all the bad rides - they will take anything and everything, freeing up the better rides for the more experienced drivers. The reason Uber introduced "Pro" was to reduce cherry picking, and it's working by keeping ants occupied chasing their tails - for this reason it's of great benefit to skilled drivers.
> 
> ...


If it ever got to the point that the service became as unreliable and inconvenient as your theory suggests, Uber would go out of business.

This is why I've stated in previous posts that because Uber's very survival depends on reliability and convenience, they'd have no choice but to make sure those rides get accepted, and the only way they could do that AND show destinations in advance would be to make the pay attractive enough to entice drivers to accept them. And that would include rides of ALL lengths.

You've made the same erroneous assumption that some other posters have that short rides would be rejected out of hand. That's false.

There are many drivers who PREFER short rides, especially those who choose to work close to home.

The only possible issue with a short ride would be if the pickup was too far away, which would require Uber to raise the minimum fare high enough that pickup distance wouldn't be an issue and/or offer extra money to get long distance pickup/short distance dropoff rides accepted.


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## Charbenji (Sep 9, 2019)

Karen Stein said:


> Have you never heard "a bird in the hand beats two in the bush?"


I always thought that was a dirty saying...


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> I'll add to that by pointing out that due to the garbage pay rates, the vast majority of full time drivers qualify for public assistance.


The funny thing is that people who don't qualify for public assistance but do rideshare are often in a better position to profit from it because they have access to (among other possibilities):

- enough savings for car expenses (including surprise repairs and insurance deductibles)
- access to lower interest credit and lower interest payments on cars and expenses
- ability to replace an ailing or inappropriately expensive car
- ability to move
- freedom to choose profitable times and places to drive
- education and financial literacy
- family health insurance plan coverage
- a comfortable roof over their heads

As someone who is a relatively comfortable rideshare driver, I want rates raised for me but _also_ for the poor souls who are really struggling with it because these drivers are subsidizing a bad business model while also being financially subsidized by taxpayer-funded programs. Even though I am a socialist who prefers that there is government assistance for people who struggle, people who drive for a living _should not struggle this much_.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> If it ever got to the point that the service became as unreliable and inconvenient as your theory suggests, Uber would go out of business.


Yes, it is reasonable to conclude that, if the service became inconvenient and stopped using it, then Uber would go out of business. This is why Uber will never show destinations to all drivers unconditionally.


> This is why I've stated in previous posts that because Uber's very survival depends on reliability and convenience, they'd have no choice but to make sure those rides get accepted, and the only way they could do that AND show destinations in advance would be to make the pay attractive enough to entice drivers to accept them. And that would include rides of ALL lengths.


Yes, again, this is why Uber will never show destinations to all drivers unconditionally.


> You've made the same erroneous assumption that some other posters have that short rides would be rejected out of hand. That's false.


Nobody knows for definite what would happen if Uber showed all destinations to all drivers because it hasn't been tried. (Uber trials new ideas, like this one, in test markets in order to see what would happen). So not even Uber knows what the outcome would be. All we have - you, me and everyone else is best-guess.


> There are many drivers who PREFER short rides, especially those who choose to work close to home.


If they are significant in number then the whole point you raise would be moot.


> The only possible issue with a short ride would be if the pickup was too far away, which would require Uber to raise the minimum fare high enough that pickup distance wouldn't be an issue and/or offer extra money to get long distance pickup/short distance dropoff rides accepted.


Uber doesn't have an issue. They're getting ants to do the crap rides very nicely, in exchange for points, power-ups and levels.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Yes, again, this is why Uber will never show destinations to all drivers unconditionally.


I've said on many occasions that as alleged ICs, we have the right to know where we are going BEFORE agreeing to accept trip requests.

I've also said on many occasions that because it would cost Uber billions of dollars in additional driver pay, they'll fight tooth and nail to prevent drivers from seeing destinations in advance.

Nevertheless, it's something that drivers should demand and fight for.

As far as short rides are concerned, my previous point stands. Some drivers prefer them, some don't want them. I haven't seen any polling numbers to indicate percentages, but different drivers prefer different trip lengths. Some drivers hate long trips.

The only reason Uber is able to get ants to do crap rides is because the destination is hidden from the drivers. Most drivers who are currently ants would become a lot more choosy if they were able to see the destinations in advance.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

lyft_rat said:


> You can project anything you want, but you are NOT going to get 300,000 mile out of that car on 5 cents a mile maintenance. In spite of what you may read, very few cars make it to 300k. You haven't faced big repairs yet, such as timing belt, head gasket, transmission, or the fender-bender that puts the car down.


Im not reading anything I'm going by personal experience. And a fairly tight definition of "maintence" and "repairs". I think of maintenance as scheduled expenses and repairs as unscheduled

Big repairs aren't maintenance. They are unscheduled surprises. I'll either add the cost of repairs to my basis and adjust my depreciation schedule or Ill depreciate each new part separately

Having said that and as I said in my post, I know I've set an optimistic mileage target and depreciation schedule. But that 8 cents a mile depreciation expense is actually a target for savings. The car has 210000 miles on it and at 8 cents a mile that's more than $16000. Major repairs will come out of that account. As will the purchase of a new car.

Unless I spend that money on toys


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> I've said on many occasions that as alleged ICs, we have the right to know where we are going BEFORE agreeing to accept trip requests.


There are different kinds of rights. Do we have the moral right to know the destination? Probably, and that's all well and good. Uber would argue we don't. Boils down to a difference of opinion. Do we have the legal right to know destinations? No, there's no statute or case law that says that rideshare drivers are entitled to know the destination. Maybe a driver or group of drivers may want, in future, to take this to court and see if they can set a precedent. However, this would be very expensive and because there's be nothing in it for the vultures I mean lawyers, the chances of getting any of them to do it on a contingency basis would be zero.


> I've also said on many occasions that because it would cost Uber billions of dollars in additional driver pay, they'll fight tooth and nail to prevent drivers from seeing destinations in advance.


No fighting is required; they already do not show destinations universally and there's nothing in the pipeline legally for them to fight against that I'm aware of currently. It's all tickityboo for them at the moment in this regard.


> Nevertheless, it's something that drivers should demand and fight for.


Yes, there's certainly no harm on demanding it


> As far as short rides are concerned, my previous point stands. Some drivers prefer them, some don't want them. I haven't seen any polling numbers to indicate percentages, but different drivers prefer different trip lengths. Some drivers hate long trips.


As I said above, correct; some drivers like short trips, some like long, some like medium etc etc. And, as you allude to, what proportion of drivers like what trips is anyone's guess.


> The only reason Uber is able to get ants to do crap rides is because the destination is hidden from the drivers. Most drivers who are currently ants would become a lot more choosy if they were able to see the destinations in advance.


Yes, we know that Uber hides the destination in order to have drivers do the crap rides.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

oldfart said:


> the car is an investment in my business,, I started this thing with a car that I paid $25000 for...As time goes on the car loses value and the savings account gains value.. I start with a $25000 car and no savings, and after time I have .a $0 car and savings of $25000 The business neither loses money nor makes money and I take money out every month


The salient question then becomes how much money do you take out every month (should be your profit, although by the IRS it will be likely much less), and for how many hours of work (is it worth it)?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> There are different kinds of rights. Do we have the moral right to know the destination? Probably, and that's all well and good. Uber would argue we don't. Boils down to a difference of opinion. Do we have the legal right to know destinations? No, there's no statute or case law that says that rideshare drivers are entitled to know the destination. Maybe a driver or group of drivers may want, in future, to take this to court and see if they can set a precedent. However, this would be very expensive and because there's be nothing in it for the vultures I mean lawyers, the chances of getting any of them to do it on a contingency basis would be zero.


Our already monstrously large govt regulatory books would reach the stratosphere if an attempt was made to include every possible scenario, so it's rediculous to expect something as specific as drivers seeing destinations before accepting offers to be included in regulations.

Many things are self-evident and rely on common sense, and demanding so-called IC business owners to accept business offers blindly without pertinent info goes beyond any reasonable limits of how an IC is supposed to be treated.

Unfortunately, due to govt incompetence, corruption, pro-business/ anti worker bias, and political idealogues, these "gig" companies have been getting away with murder.


The Gift of Fish said:


> No fighting is required; they already do not show destinations universally and there's nothing in the pipeline legally for them to fight against that I'm aware of currently. It's all tickityboo for them at the moment in this regard.


My point was in regards to the unlikely scenario that such a thing had a realistic chance of occurring.

Uber would cynically attempt to turn it into a civil rights and pro-consumer issue and would likely win public and govt support to keep hiding destinations from the drivers.

Nevertheless, it's worth fighting for.


The Gift of Fish said:


> As I said above, correct; some drivers like short trips, some like long, some like medium etc etc. And, as you allude to, what proportion of drivers like what trips is anyone's guess.


The bottom line is that knowing destinations in advance would RAISE driver pay significantly and not knowing destination CUTS driver pay significantly.


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## DoubleDee (Apr 22, 2019)

I reiterate ... It's not ride sharing unless there are unlimited destination filters. Ride sharing means that I'm going to this place and if you want a ride to some place along the way and pay me I'll share the ride with you.

If that means that pax can't get drivers to take them to some sh*t hole neighborhood in Newark New Jersey so be it. You'll have wait until some driver is going to the sh*t hole and is willing to share the ride with you. Or else take the bus. 

If I don't want to pick up Shaquanda and drive her to Camden it's not discrimination. It's just common sense.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Driving successfully in a market that is easily 2/3 black, largely in older working class/ poorer neighborhoods I strongly suggest you check your assumptions.

I make my living driving Shaquanda to work.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

DoubleDee said:


> I reiterate ... It's not ride sharing unless there are unlimited destination filters. Ride sharing means that I'm going to this place and if you want a ride to some place along the way and pay me I'll share the ride with you.
> 
> If that means that pax can't get drivers to take them to some sh*t hole neighborhood in Newark New Jersey so be it. You'll have wait until some driver is going to the sh*t hole and is willing to share the ride with you. Or else take the bus.
> 
> If I don't want to pick up Shaquanda and drive her to Camden it's not discrimination. It's just common sense.


That's why it isn't ride share. 
Drivers not going to a certain location would mean Uber would be sued out of existence.


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## DoubleDee (Apr 22, 2019)

Demon said:


> That's why it isn't ride share.
> Drivers not going to a certain location would mean Uber would be sued out of existence.


Lol. It's rediculous. Why should Uber be allowed to force you to drive to places you don't want to drive ?

In that case we're not contractors. We're employees.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

We ain’t employees yet. At least in California. Soon, tho.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> Driving successfully in a market that is easily 2/3 black, largely in older working class/ poorer neighborhoods I strongly suggest you check your assumptions.
> 
> I make my living driving Shaquanda to work.


Sounds like you're a Ben Shapiro fan. He postulates that there is no need for anti-discrimination laws in a free market economy. I.e. if the guy above doesn't want to take Shaquanda then another supplier will happily serve her and take her money.



Nats121 said:


> Our already monstrously large govt regulatory books would reach the stratosphere if an attempt was made to include every possible scenario, so it's rediculous to expect something as specific as drivers seeing destinations before accepting offers to be included in regulations.


Yes, it would be ridiculous to expect that. This is why case law / legal precedent (allowing the courts to effectively make new law by means of their judgments) is such an important part of our legal system. As stated above though, this subject has not reached the courts therefore no judgment on it has been made. Any non-arbitration driver is free to take Uber to court to try to secure the right to be shown destinations if they so choose.


> Many things are self-evident and rely on common sense, and demanding so-called IC business owners to accept business offers blindly without pertinent info goes beyond any reasonable limits of how an IC is supposed to be treated.


Again, this depends on one's point of view. You and I may share the view that we should be shown destinations and we may have a lot of other opinions too and that's all well and good.


> Unfortunately, due to govt incompetence, corruption, pro-business/ anti worker bias, and political idealogues, these "gig" companies have been getting away with murder.


Yes. Other countries that have a more advanced workers' rights focus have already clamped down on some of these abuses. USA is very hands off, though, and in this sense, behind the times. For example, I believe it is the only developed nation which does not have statutory (required by law) maternity leave.


> The bottom line is that knowing destinations in advance would RAISE driver pay significantly and not knowing destination CUTS driver pay significantly.


Maybe. As above, the only way to find out for definite would be to try it, and that's not going to happen.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

DoubleDee said:


> I reiterate ... It's not ride sharing unless there are unlimited destination filters. Ride sharing means that I'm going to this place and if you want a ride to some place along the way and pay me I'll share the ride with you.
> 
> If that means that pax can't get drivers to take them to some sh*t hole neighborhood in Newark New Jersey so be it. You'll have wait until some driver is going to the sh*t hole and is willing to share the ride with you. Or else take the bus.
> 
> If I don't want to pick up Shaquanda and drive her to Camden it's not discrimination. It's just common sense.


Agree 100%

That's why I try to call it ride-hailing not ridesharing but I slip up sometimes.



The Gift of Fish said:


> Sounds like you're a Ben Shapiro fan. He postulates that there is no need for anti-discrimination laws in a free market economy. I.e. if the guy above doesn't want to take Shaquanda then another supplier will happily serve her and take her money.


To me it comes down to a color, but not skin color. The color is green:










When we had the Platinum Metals Program with a map that covered the greater D.C. area, I went everywhere and anywhere. I gave many a Shaquanda a ride. I was in "da hood" in deep S.E. D.C. because I was making money.

When Uber cut the Boost Zones map and it wasn't lucrative to go to "da hood" anymore, I stopped. I also stopped driving in the lily-white areas of hoity-toity Upper N.W. and Bethesda for the same reason. I experimented with other tools Uber gives us and have found my niche. It generally keeps me out of S.E. because the trips there don't go where I want to go.

If Uber raises driver rates tremendously (not likely) and/or brings back giant 2.4X Boost Zones (more likely the Redskins win the Super Bowl this year) then I'll be in S.E. D.C. again. Until then I'll do my thing.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

New2This said:


> Agree 100%
> 
> That's why I try to call it ride-hailing not ridesharing but I slip up sometimes.
> 
> ...


Exactly. With me: Uber pays, Uber gets. Uber doesn't pay, Uber doesn't get. It's really simple.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> The salient question then becomes how much money do you take out every month (should be your profit, although by the IRS it will be likely much less), and for how many hours of work (is it worth it)?


I take enough out that i can pay my bills and grow my savings. and consider spending $20000 on a toy, next week
that makes it worthwhile to me

The time i put in is not an important consideration until I have something to compare it to


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

oldfart said:


> Im not reading anything I'm going by personal experience. And a fairly tight definition of "maintence" and "repairs". I think of maintenance as scheduled expenses and repairs as unscheduled
> 
> Big repairs aren't maintenance. They are unscheduled surprises. I'll either add the cost of repairs to my basis and adjust my depreciation schedule or Ill depreciate each new part separately
> 
> ...


One thing I agree with, that you plan to drive that car a lot of miles as long as it is worth it. That is what gets your average expense numbers down.


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## Transportador (Sep 15, 2015)

SHalester said:


> i don't. I do go offline when I don't want a 2nd poo pax or when I do an airport drop off.
> If more in calif get the more info ping I'm all for it. But won't use the info to decline. I get a ping, I accept. Ant ant I'm am. Just want more info, longer decision time etc.


Man, life ain't so simple...On top of being able to see duration (and in some markets even the direction) of rides ahead of time, Diamond drivers get top priorities at some airport. This means I roll into a waiting lot of 100 divers and get ping in 5 minutes, as if I'm number 5 or 10 inline, not 101.

Also, aren't you driving to make the most money you can? If I'm sitting at a location 50 miles from town, why in the stupid hell am I going to accept a 10 minutes ride when I can ignore it for a 50 minutes ride to town.

You make no sense whatsoever.

Besides, if you drive like an ant, your acceptance rate is really high, and your cancellation rate is really low, making you a Diamond driver in no time. Don't tell me that if you're Diamond that you won't take advantage of any of its benefits.

Please say something that make sense. I didn't start driving just yesterday.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Transportador said:


> Also, aren't you driving to make the most money you can?


Have you read any of my notes here? -o: A) mostly do this for the time B) work maybe 3 - 4 hours a day (not all uber) C) only drive during the day D) Don't chase surges or events E) No weekends F) just want that nice tax loss at end of year to offset 'unearned' income. G) also pro pax H) service no matter what I)no doubt more but can't think of them right this second

Make sense? To you? I'm not aiming to make sense to you or anybody. I can be on my own island all by myself for all I care. HOWEVER, I do seem to get likes, loves and WUT on my posts. But really, need nobody to agree with me. If they do, yay like a tip received.

Gold? Diamond? Wut? Unicorns to me. Think I have like 16 points since 11/1. AND the benefits besides more ping info is quite useless to me anyway. Cheaper gas? got that. Cheap repairs. no thanks. Better support. Waz dat?

Sense now, or still confused? :confusion: Keep up.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

I don't know any Ben Shapiro. Lots of Shapiro's belong to my Temple, but no Ben's.

I'm more of a Jack Friday girl: Just the facts, ma'am.


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## DoubleDee (Apr 22, 2019)

Karen Stein said:


> I don't know any Ben Shapiro. Lots of Shapiro's belong to my Temple, but no Ben's.


Ben Shapiro is that crazy homophobe racist guy. He actually thinks that there are only 2 genders ... And that Kaitlyn Jenner is a man.
How crazy is that ?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

DoubleDee said:


> Lol. It's rediculous. Why should Uber be allowed to force you to drive to places you don't want to drive ?
> 
> In that case we're not contractors. We're employees.


Show up to the pickup and learn the destination. If drivers don't want to go they don't have to.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> f drivers don't want to go they don't have to.


shuffle them? :confusion: -o:


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SHalester said:


> shuffle them? :confusion: -o:


When you're at the pickup just cancel the ride.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Demon said:


> pickup just cancel the ride


er, um, ah using which cancel reason? other?


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## Sleepo (Dec 1, 2017)

Transportador said:


> Man, life ain't so simple...On top of being able to see duration (and in some markets even the direction) of rides ahead of time, Diamond drivers get top priorities at some airport. This means I roll into a waiting lot of 100 divers and get ping in 5 minutes, as if I'm number 5 or 10 inline, not 101.
> 
> Also, aren't you driving to make the most money you can? If I'm sitting at a location 50 miles from town, why in the stupid hell am I going to accept a 10 minutes ride when I can ignore it for a 50 minutes ride to town.
> 
> ...


its not a benefit, its simply a bribe by Uber, in Australia, Didi the Chinese company which is actually bigger than Uber shows actual pick up point and destination when it sends ping, even Ola the Indian company shows exact pick up location and both companies pay drivers considerably more than Uber.


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## Subaru_X (Apr 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Drivers knowing destinations in advance would a GAME CHANGER.


OK, you asked for it.

For UberPOOL - after accepting ping just look at the waybill. Destination will be there.

For UberX, follow these exact steps (on Uber's iPhone app):

Accept ping
Airplane mode ON
Swipe to start trip (now you will see destination)
Close app
Re-open app (Now the app will show no trip info)
Close app again
Airplane mode OFF
Re-open app (Presto, you never started the trip)
Continue to pickup or cancel if it's not worth it.
Revel in your newfound power to stick it to the man
Hope it doesn't ruin your CR and get you banned.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Transportador said:


> Man, life ain't so simple...On top of being able to see duration (and in some markets even the direction) of rides ahead of time, Diamond drivers get top priorities at some airport. This means I roll into a waiting lot of 100 divers and get ping in 5 minutes, as if I'm number 5 or 10 inline, not 101.
> 
> Also, aren't you driving to make the most money you can? If I'm sitting at a location 50 miles from town, why in the stupid hell am I going to accept a 10 minutes ride when I can ignore it for a 50 minutes ride to town.
> 
> ...


I am a super kypronite driver. My acceptance rate hovers around 10% and I take whatever pings I want. No Pool whatsoever, no shit pickup locations etc etc etc.

Works for me and I'd never criticise anyone else. You want to be a diamond driver, you go ahead and be a diamond driver. ?‍♂


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## HonkyTonk (Oct 27, 2019)

SHalester said:


> I think the reason both RS giants don't is for the very reason you post: cherry picking would result in pax not getting ANY driver accepting their ride. And bigger picture would mean fewer requests. What's the saying cutting your nose off despite your face?
> 
> I want more info on the ping, but it really wouldn't change much for me. Accept maybe a long trip when I didn't have the time to complete before going 'off shift'. I just want to know all the info and longer than a measly 15 seconds to decide.
> 
> Seem is calif Uber is testing having the info on the ping, but it is random so far. I tested, no info. :cryin:


But if they let PAX advertise a tip beforehand, they'd get a ride (1.5 miles) easily.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

HonkyTonk said:


> But if they let PAX advertise a tip beforehand, they'd get a ride (1.5 miles) easily.


Which would once and for all underscore that tips are not really tips but "pay what you want". I know my willingness to go above and beyond goes way up when I know my time and expenses are being covered by cash or near-certainty of a tip.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

HonkyTonk said:


> But if they let PAX advertise a tip beforehand,


majority of pax don't tip, so kinda wouldn't happen in this reality.



HonkyTonk said:


> But if they let PAX advertise a tip beforehand,


majority of pax don't tip, so kinda wouldn't happen in this reality.


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## Skinnyteensforlife (Aug 21, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Some rides are as profitable as other rides but end places people would discriminate against. Uber has an interest not just in keeping customers but _expanding the network_. The idea is that you will use the service more if you get a ride quickly and drivers just accept everything.
> 
> I talk to some passengers who "prefer" Lyft when it is 50 cents cheaper for a ride but choose Uber when the car they can order is more convenient. This is a network advantage that Uber has in most markets that they are seeking to keep or expand. If drivers have more information about rides, they may be less willing participants in the scheme to expand the network.
> 
> It's not just about holding driver pay low - the rideshare companies do that with the rates themselves. Uber is perfectly happy to lose money on certain rides (even paying the driver way more than strictly necessary on sticky surge where the passenger pays non-surge but the driver earns surge) to keep the wait times low and the network coverage predictable and consistent.


Ride today and the guy said lift is cheaper but Uber is a lot quicker


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

HonkyTonk said:


> But if they let PAX advertise a tip beforehand, they'd get a ride (1.5 miles) easily.


That's not a tip.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

CTK said:


> While I totally agree that not seeing destination greatly hurts our pay, I disagree that drivers' pay is the reason for U/L's opposition to showing destination. I think that there is such an abundance of money- losing rides - I might go as far as to say that *most* rides are money losers for drivers - that U/L know that all but the most oblivious drivers would decline these rides if they knew in advance. These rides are Uber's & Lyft's bread and butter, and they can't risk stranding these riders.


Yes, they can strand them. Eventually the cheapos neeed to pay surge or they can take a traditional taxi!!!



Uber_Yota_916 said:


> When I started I had all sorts of information about pax. Through the app. Then drivers started discriminating on poor Mohammed and Tyrel. Not to mention Princess, Precious, and D.


Yes, because those names stereotype rightly or wrongly whether this is going to be a cheap and/or difficult customer.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> The funny thing is that people who don't qualify for public assistance but do rideshare are often in a better position to profit from it because they have access to (among other possibilities):
> 
> - enough savings for car expenses (including surprise repairs and insurance deductibles)
> - access to lower interest credit and lower interest payments on cars and expenses
> ...


I agree with the sentiment expressed in your last paragraph except that I would add; everyone that works a full time job should not need public assistance

I too am one of those comfortable drivers. I can check off all the boxes you list

When passengers ask me "do you like doing Uber?" my answer is always "it does what I need it to do. If It was the difference between eating or not eating tonight I wouldn't be as happy



The Gift of Fish said:


> There are different kinds of rights. Do we have the moral right to know the destination? Probably, and that's all well and good. Uber would argue we don't. Boils down to a difference of opinion. Do we have the legal right to know destinations? No, there's no statute or case law that says that rideshare drivers are entitled to know the destination. Maybe a driver or group of drivers may want, in future, to take this to court and see if they can set a precedent. However, this would be very expensive and because there's be nothing in it for the vultures I mean lawyers, the chances of getting any of them to do it on a contingency basis would be zero.
> No fighting is required; they already do not show destinations universally and there's nothing in the pipeline legally for them to fight against that I'm aware of currently. It's all tickityboo for them at the moment in this regard.
> Yes, there's certainly no harm on demanding it
> As I said above, correct; some drivers like short trips, some like long, some like medium etc etc. And, as you allude to, what proportion of drivers like what trips is anyone's guess.
> Yes, we know that Uber hides the destination in order to have drivers do the crap rides.


Regarding "rights" you mention moral rights and legal rights. There are other rights as well contracted rights for example

I don't believe our agreement with Uber gives us a right to know the destination.

I'll have to read that agreement again but I've always understood that when we agree to accept rides sent to us by Uber, we have agreed to accept them all (except certain in certain circumstances)

My expectation is that if I take the good with the bad, things will average out in the end. And that's turned out to be true


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

oldfart said:


> I don't believe our agreement with Uber gives us a right to know the destination.


Correct, drivers have no contractual right to be told the destination before the pickup by Uberlyft.


> I'll have to read that agreement again but I've always understood that when we agree to accept rides sent to us by Uber, we have agreed to accept them all (except certain in certain circumstances)


Incorrect, drivers do have the contractual right to accept/decline rides as they see fit. This is one of the cornerstones of Uberlyft's argument that we are independent contractors as opposed to employees.


> My expectation is that if I take the good with the bad, things will average out in the end. And that's turned out to be true


If you were to sum the revenue and subtract the cost totals for all rides and then divide by the number of rides then by definition you would indeed get an average profit. However, through ride filtering / cherry picking many drivers prefer to increase their revenue and decrease their costs in order to skew the profit average in their favour.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

oldfart said:


> I agree with the sentiment expressed in your last paragraph except that I would add; everyone that works a full time job should not need public assistance


100% agreed on this. Again I am literally a socialist and I don't want people on the dole who work full-time.


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## Alantc (Jun 15, 2018)

One thing with Lyft is they do show you the drop off after you arrive and hit arrived and confirm arrival where you can tap the 3dot icon to see where you will be going while you're waiting on the customer.


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## WindyCityAnt (Feb 24, 2019)

I admit it. It’s very easy to make Uber lose money on rides. Had a -18$ one the other night. Unknowingly that’s what the results would be from a “rider promo” of 25$.

Made me drive through a very busy DT stretch over a mile for PU. So it was suspicious at the beginning to me. It was a surged ride, with a completion of a 3 for 5$ CT. 

They obviously sent me the request for a good experience for pax. She was great! Tipped me 5$ too for coming all that way to get her from the theater district release.


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## The Elder (Oct 30, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


As soon as they realize we are contractors and not employees they'll have to disclose all the details of the contract before we have to accept it.
That's the biggest issue with AB5, U/L wants to treat us like employees but classify us as contractors without adhering to contract law.
Two D-Bag companies that think business is one way, their way. But that's not the way it works


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## Transportador (Sep 15, 2015)

SHalester said:


> Have you read any of my notes here? -o: A) mostly do this for the time B) work maybe 3 - 4 hours a day (not all uber) C) only drive during the day D) Don't chase surges or events E) No weekends F) just want that nice tax loss at end of year to offset 'unearned' income. G) also pro pax H) service no matter what I)no doubt more but can't think of them right this second
> 
> Make sense? To you? I'm not aiming to make sense to you or anybody. I can be on my own island all by myself for all I care. HOWEVER, I do seem to get likes, loves and WUT on my posts. But really, need nobody to agree with me. If they do, yay like a tip received.
> 
> ...


OK I got it. Thanks for the explanation. Peace.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Correct, drivers have no contractual right to be told the destination before the pickup by Uberlyft.
> 
> Incorrect, drivers do have the contractual right to accept/decline rides as they see fit. This is one of the cornerstones of Uberlyft's argument that we are independent contractors as opposed to employees.
> 
> If you were to sum the revenue and subtract the cost totals for all rides and then divide by the number of rides then by definition you would indeed get an average profit. However, through ride filtering / cherry picking many drivers prefer to increase their revenue and decrease their costs in order to skew the profit average in their favour.


From the driver agreement:

"Additionally, you acknowledge that your repeated failure to accept User requests for Transportation Services while you are logged in to the Driver App creates a negative experience for Users of Uber's mobile application. If you do not wish to accept User requests for Transportation Services for a period of time, you agree that you will log off of the Driver App."

So ... We have agreed to accept all offers or close the app

And regarding averages..... I'm talking about more than an arithmetic average when I say things even out in the end. What I'm saying is that we don't have enough information at the ping to know whether a ride will be a good ride or a bad ride. And if we decline those that look like they will be bad, we will no doubt reject some good ones too. Since Ive been accepting everything outside of the airport, I believe that the good out weighs the bad. But the big thing is that by accepting nearly everything, I can now see direction and estimated time of the ride so instead of guessing as to what might be good or bad, I know. And I can decline the bad if I care to.

So far my experience is that the really crap rides are few and far between and it only takes one good ride to turn a bad day into a good one


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

oldfart said:


> From the driver agreement:
> 
> "Additionally, you acknowledge that your repeated failure to accept User requests for Transportation Services while you are logged in to the Driver App creates a negative experience for Users of Uber's mobile application. If you do not wish to accept User requests for Transportation Services for a period of time, you agree that you will log off of the Driver App."
> 
> So ... We have agreed to accept all offers or close the app


No way is that the interpretation. I leave the app open because I WISH to accept requests. That does not mean that I have to accept all requests.


----------



## LuxCarSpy (Jan 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


Yes you are correct - Uber hides destinations to send drivers to locations to fill a need and reduce potential surge areas as well as send drivers to unsafe high crimes areas - see my future post demanding Uber add the Citizen App to its ride request and mapping systems -


----------



## WEP217 (Oct 11, 2019)

Not going where I want and I just cancel. Not going to Palmdale or crappy destinations. Pax get mad but is all about me


----------



## Brian G. (Jul 5, 2016)

Not a game changer at all. I'm losing $25-45 per 4 hr shift. I'll be collecting welfare soon.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Brian G. said:


> Not a game changer at all. I'm losing $25-45 per 4 hr shift. I'll be collecting welfare soon.


When I said "game changer" in my original post, I was referring to seeing destinations for RIDES, I wasn't refering to food or package delivery.

Deliveries are an entirely different thing altogether.

Not getting your Big Mac is an inconvenience.

Being stranded unable to get to or from work or the airport is a disaster, and if it happens too often, Uber will go out of business.

Remember, the bedrock core and by far most important part of Uber's business is to provide RELIABLE transportation to pax for the Mon-Fri commutes.

If Uber ever loses that reliability, they will go out of business.



oldfart said:


> I don't believe our agreement with Uber gives us a right to know the destination.


Our contracts don't give us the right to see the destinations, but anyone can put anything they want into a contract, legal or not.

Uber's contract could have a clause that requires human sacrifice (come to think of it it does).

Ultimately, it's up to the courts to decide the legality of a contract.

My assertion is that hiding destinations from drivers is EMPLOYER behavior.


----------



## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Blindly accepting trip requests without knowing the destinations costs drivers BILLIONS of dollars in lost revenue
> every year.
> 
> By hiding destinations from the drivers, Uber and Lyft rake in BILLIONS of dollars in extra revenue every year by keeping driver pay rates ARTIFICIALLY LOW.
> ...


Ok and



Brian G. said:


> Not a game changer at all. I'm losing $25-45 per 4 hr shift. I'll be collecting welfare soon.


A Man who speaks the Truth has just Spoken



Brian G. said:


> Not a game changer at all. I'm losing $25-45 per 4 hr shift. I'll be collecting welfare soon.


A Man who speaks the Truth has just Spoken 


Nats121 said:


> When I said "game changer" in my original post, I was referring to seeing destinations for RIDES, I wasn't refering to food or package delivery.
> 
> Deliveries are an entirely different thing altogether.
> 
> ...


Uber just responded


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Karen Stein said:


> But, what the heck. I have only 11K trips over three years. I can't possibly know anything about this topic


100% serious here.

11k in over 3 years, if you drive everyday that is 30.13 trips a day and if you drive everyday that is 1.25 trips per hour if you use all 24 hrs (so no sleep) or if 8 hr work day it's 3.76 trips per hour.

but that's every single day.

What is your stats? I feel like if I saw the screenshot I would &#128079;&#127995;&#128079;&#127995;&#128079;&#127995;


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> 11k in over 3 years, if you drive everyday that is 30.13 trips a day and if you drive everyday that is 1.25 trips per hour if you use all 24 hrs (so no sleep) or if 8 hr work day it's 3.76 trips per hour.


Indeed it sounds suspicious.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> 100% serious here.
> 
> 11k in over 3 years, if you drive everyday that is 30.13 trips a day and if you drive everyday that is 1.25 trips per hour if you use all 24 hrs (so no sleep) or if 8 hr work day it's 3.76 trips per hour.
> 
> ...


It's doable. I average 72 rides a week since starting (including heavy and light weeks and a few days off), and that would put me at just over 11,000 at the 3 year mark. Of course I would burn through a couple cars and have to not get deactivated in that time to make it work!

Some people are hustlers: respect to @Karen Stein.

The reason why 11,000 sounds like too much is that you did the math at 11,000 in 365 days (30 per day) but really it is an average of 10 rides per day. ~70 rides per week is what many full time drivers do.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> It's doable. I average 72 rides a week since starting (including heavy and light weeks and a few days off), and that would put me at just over 11,000 at the 3 year mark. Of course I would burn through a couple cars and have to not get deactivated in that time to make it work!
> 
> Some people are hustlers: respect to @Karen Stein.


Yes, it is clearly doable, just saying it is a LOT, probably unconsciously fudged. I can drive at 11,000 poer 3 year pace for brief periods of time.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

lyft_rat said:


> Yes, it is clearly doable, just saying it is a LOT, probably unconsciously fudged. I can drive at 11,000 poer 3 year pace for brief periods of time.


70 rides per week can be done with average 35 hour weeks in many markets (2 rides per hour). A full timer working 50 weeks per year 40 hours per week easily would get to 12,000.

What else can I say? I'm at ~740 10 weeks in and I'm barely breaking a sweat. I know I won't feel that way forever about it, so 11,000 seems unlikely, but at my current rate I would have to take months of vacation to not make it past 10,000 over 3 years.


----------



## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> 70 rides per week can be done with average 35 hour weeks in many markets (2 rides per hour). A full timer working 50 weeks per year 40 hours per week easily would get to 12,000.
> 
> What else can I say? I'm at ~740 10 weeks in and I'm barely breaking a sweat. I know I won't feel that way forever about it, so 11,000 seems unlikely, but at my current rate I would have to take months of vacation to not make it past 10,000 over 3 years.


Zombie &#129503;‍♀ @ 10 rides a day 7 days a week


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Life is Short ~ Enjoy it said:


> Zombie &#129503;‍♀ @ 10 rides a day 7 days a week


Yep. Although I am still here and posting and healthy and happy. I'll stop when it doesn't make sense. &#128721;

I only did 25 rides this week (heading for 50 probably) but my max is 105. &#129503;‍♂ &#128028;


----------



## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Yep. Although I am still here and posting and healthy and happy. I'll stop when it doesn't make sense. &#128721;
> 
> I only did 25 rides this week (heading for 50 probably) but my max is 105. &#129503;‍♂ &#128028;


105 a week &#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;
Reality &#129372;&#129372;&#129372;&#129372;&#129372;&#129372;&#129372;


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Life is Short ~ Enjoy it said:


> 105 a week &#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;
> Reality &#129372;&#129372;&#129372;&#129372;&#129372;&#129372;&#129372;


Fixed cost rental. I am only harming my own interests if I don't break 40 hours in a week. There are other expenses but they are negligible compared to how much I actually make. If I make $4k gross in a month vs $3k, most of that extra $1k goes in my pocket.

Exiting rental in 2 months or so but I am making slightly more than peanuts at the moment. Still, it's a grind and somehow I love it everyday. I've already made enough for a down payment on a future car that we need.


----------



## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Fixed cost rental. I am only harming my own interests if I don't break 40 hours in a week. There are other expenses but they are negligible compared to how much I actually make. If I make $4k gross in a month vs $3k, most of that extra $1k goes in my pocket.
> 
> Exiting rental in 2 months or so but I am making slightly more than peanuts at the moment. Still, it's a grind and somehow I love it everyday.


God Bless You 
Believe in the Dream My Son 
$7.75 an hour Reality



waldowainthrop said:


> 70 rides per week can be done with average 35 hour weeks in many markets (2 rides per hour). A full timer working 50 weeks per year 40 hours per week easily would get to 12,000.
> 
> What else can I say? I'm at ~740 10 weeks in and I'm barely breaking a sweat. I know I won't feel that way forever about it, so 11,000 seems unlikely, but at my current rate I would have to take months of vacation to not make it past 10,000 over 3 years.


At the very best is 2 rides per hour



waldowainthrop said:


> Fixed cost rental. I am only harming my own interests if I don't break 40 hours in a week. There are other expenses but they are negligible compared to how much I actually make. If I make $4k gross in a month vs $3k, most of that extra $1k goes in my pocket.
> 
> Exiting rental in 2 months or so but I am making slightly more than peanuts at the moment. Still, it's a grind and somehow I love it everyday. I've already made enough for a down payment on a future car that we need.


Life is about the Net not the Gross my Friend


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Life is Short ~ Enjoy it said:


> God Bless You
> Believe in the Dream My Son
> $7.75 an hour Reality


I just did my expenses and I am making way more than that net, not even counting the fact that the rental car provides a second car for my household which is absolutely necessary. As a temporary gig I have been making a lot more than I would have doing another low wage job. This is not true for everyone and I wouldn't recommend it to most people.

I'd PM you my gross/net math but I don't know if you would be interested.


----------



## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> I just did my expenses and I am making way more than that net, not even counting the fact that the rental car provides a second car for my household which is absolutely necessary. As a temporary gig I have been making a lot more than I would have doing another low wage job. This is not true for everyone and I wouldn't recommend it to most people.
> 
> I'd PM you my gross/net math but I don't know if you would be interested.


$7.85 a hour max 
Figures don't lie


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Life is Short ~ Enjoy it said:


> $7.85 a hour max
> Figures don't lie


OK. I think we are at an impasse here because I don't feel like sharing all of my receipts and income on a public forum.

Check out my posting history. I am better at math and managing risk than the average driver. I also value my time which is why I am not doing this gig full time forever.


----------



## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

Rent a car 🚗 is $840
Gas $ ______
Hours worked
Less taxes got to take out for that 
Net $7.75 hour 
🍾🎉🍾🎁🌴😎


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Life is Short ~ Enjoy it said:


> Rent a car &#128663; is $840
> Gas $ ______
> Hours worked
> Less taxes got to take out for that
> ...


You are forgetting insurance, repairs not covered by the rental company and a lot of incidental expenses. Renting is extremely expensive and risky and should not be done lightly.

My rental cost is $162 per week, by the way.

Have to duck out of this for now - I'll post my numbers one day when I stop renting, probably. I'll make sure to tag you if I do.

Making more than $7.75 isn't a brag, it's just the reality for me.

I decided I can't share my expenses at the moment but here is a hypothetical full time rideshare month with a rental. My gross per month is actually higher than this example with a taller ceiling but my schedule and gross per hour is variable.










One can do better or worse per hour than this. My actual gas costs less than this. I briefly tried a rental that cost more than this. One can measure working hours more optimistically or pessimistically than this. But this is definitely possible in some parts of the country.

Before you tell me that $20 per hour isn't realistic I grossed over $22 last week over ~50 hours over 6 days. $1100+ gross in a week over rental expenses is not ~$8 after taxes. And some people earn more than that! Many earn significantly less and if so, a rental is a bad idea.

I think we can agree that this amounts to peanuts, but not $8 worth of peanuts.


----------



## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

sellkatsell44 said:


> 100% serious here.
> 
> 11k in over 3 years, if you drive everyday that is 30.13 trips a day and if you drive everyday that is 1.25 trips per hour if you use all 24 hrs (so no sleep) or if 8 hr work day it's 3.76 trips per hour.
> 
> ...


Check your math.
I usually work five days per week, with ten productive hours each. Typically I will have eighteen trips a day.

Trips are split 2/3 Uber, 1/3 Lyft.

Count as of now: 7263 Uber, 3674 Lyft.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Karen Stein said:


> 7263 Uber, 3674 Lyft.


Heh

7263 + 3674 is 10937/2600 = 4.2 trips a day or * 10 42 trips a day.

52*5*10 is where the 2600 comes from, 52 weeks (no weeks off even Christmas, New Years or thanksgiving) * 5 days at 10 hours online.



Karen Stein said:


> Typically I will have eighteen trips a day


so how does 42 trips a day average to typically 18/day?

I hate math, and it's not my strong point so I had to double check.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Are you sure you are calculating for 3 years and not 1 year? 11000 over 3 years is a light but consistent full time schedule with time for days off. Not just doable, it’s what you would expect if someone were to make a living wage doing the gig full time.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

waldowainthrop said:


> Are you sure you are calculating for 3 years and not 1 year? 11000 over 3 years is a light but consistent full time schedule with time for days off. Not just doable, it's what you would expect if someone were to make a living wage doing the gig full time.


Ahahah crap you're right.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Just driving for Uber is economically defeating


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

Karen Stein said:


> Check your math.
> I usually work five days per week, with ten productive hours each. Typically I will have eighteen trips a day.
> 
> Trips are split 2/3 Uber, 1/3 Lyft.
> ...


Makes complete sense.

1095-312(weekends): 783 working days

10937 rides/ 783: ~14 rides a day


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

🐴🥊😂

**too lazy to find a gif of beating dead horse**


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

sellkatsell44 said:


> &#128052;&#129354;&#128514;
> 
> **too lazy to find a gif of beating dead horse**


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

New2This said:


> View attachment 378047


You brought that up reeeaally fast. Must have fast fingers.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Mkang14 said:


> You brought that up reeeaally fast. Must have fast fingers.


You have no idea &#128520;


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

New2This said:


> View attachment 378047


Thank you.

after the craziness of this week I'm just dgaf mood. I'm ready to drink and drink after work cos during the week I had to worry about papers, exams, and client issues.

the worst is when someone gets their shiet incorrect and they're a manager. Come on now. At least he had the balls to reveal on a recorded line that he dropped the ball and was talking out of his ^ up above gif, so he immediately stamped his approval no questions asked.

got my Impossible possible done today.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

The point of this thread is to point out that by not knowing the destinations before accepting trip offers, drivers are giving BILLIONS of dollars per year to Uber and Lyft on a silver platter. That's a fact.

That a small number of drivers are able to make a go of it doesn't change that fact.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> The point of this thread is to point out that by not knowing the destinations before accepting trip offers, drivers are giving BILLIONS of dollars per year to Uber and Lyft on a silver platter. That's a fact.
> 
> That a small number of drivers are able to make a go of it doesn't change that fact.


I do well in our market on UberX/Pool by cherrypicking. If I had destination information I'd do even better and **** Uber even more.

I see some people in CA are getting full trip info including pickup and destination address as well as time/distance. If I ever got that it'd be amazing.


----------



## Uberbrent (Mar 22, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> The point of this thread is to point out that by not knowing the destinations before accepting trip offers, drivers are giving BILLIONS of dollars per year to Uber and Lyft on a silver platter. That's a fact.
> 
> That a small number of drivers are able to make a go of it doesn't change that fact.


The only fact is that the rides are covered whether you as an individual get them or not...nothing is given to Uber as you say. It's a zero sum game to Uber. The same amount is paid out regardless. Do you understand that another driver gets a long ride that you don't? I don't know how else this can be explained. Uber doesn't care who gets the "premium" ride. All rides are covered. Could you personally make more money by cherry picking rides? Of course you could, but it makes no difference to the bottom line at Uber.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Uberbrent said:


> The only fact is that the rides are covered whether you as an individual get them or not...nothing is given to Uber as you say. It's a zero sum game to Uber. The same amount is paid out regardless.


You're flatout wrong, period.

Since day one, I've given many many rides that had I known the destination, I would have refused to do unless I was paid a lot more.

Example.... my first day I was paid a shitty $11 for a 37 minute slog thru DC rush hour traffic. Had I known the destination and how little it would pay, I would have refused it so fast your head would spin.

Uber would have had to pay me a LOT more money to accept it.

There's a slew of similar rides given by millions of other drivers who would say the same thing as I did.

All but the most zombie-like ants would demand more money for garbage rides like that.

It doesn't take long for those demands for more money to go into the BILLIONS of dollars.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> The point of this thread is to point out that by not knowing the destinations before accepting trip offers, drivers are giving BILLIONS of dollars per year to Uber and Lyft on a silver platter. That's a fact.
> 
> That a small number of drivers are able to make a go of it doesn't change that fact.


Definitely. But if they gave me that information I would go from being a somewhat profitable driver to being a ruthless cherry picker who costs Uber money. I can see why they don't provide it. Anyone who is smarter than the average driver would make a killing with that information and Uber knows it.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

waldowainthrop said:


> to being a ruthless cherry picker who costs Uber money.


My ears were burning.

I have a million of these...


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Most of the drivers in my small home market say “oh I just take whatever rides if it’s busy” which already puts me at a local advantage. If I had full ride information I would make so much more for less time on the road. I made $48 in 1:45 just now on a dead morning. Imagine if I had actually had intel about rides other than starting point and trip length. 😬


----------



## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

1.5xorbust said:


> As soon as there is a shortage of drivers Uber will either reveal pax destinations or increase driver rates.


And sadly that day will never come... Noobs sign up daily who have no idea how bad it is cuz they've never seen anything different than what it is now... And Uber and Lyft bank on this fact..


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

Uberbrent said:


> The only fact is that the rides are covered whether you as an individual get them or not...nothing is given to Uber as you say. It's a zero sum game to Uber. The same amount is paid out regardless. Do you understand that another driver gets a long ride that you don't? I don't know how else this can be explained. Uber doesn't care who gets the "premium" ride. All rides are covered. Could you personally make more money by cherry picking rides? Of course you could, but it makes no difference to the bottom line at Uber.


You are correct. There is "X" amount of money out there everyday. That amount is spent weather a particular driver accepts or declines. The ride you decline another driver takes. WASH!!!


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

New2This said:


> I do well in our market on UberX/Pool by cherrypicking. If I had destination information I'd do even better and @@@@ Uber even more.
> 
> I see some people in CA are getting full trip info including pickup and destination address as well as time/distance. If I ever got that it'd be amazing.


Assuming those claims about seeing destinations are true, the fact that it's Uber we're talking about makes me suspicious.

The question as always is what's Uber's angle?

We know AB5 spreading beyond California is a grave threat to Uber and Lyft, so this could be an attempt by Uber to show the govt that by giving drivers a lot more "control" over their jobs, they are actual ICs and not employees.

Everywhere in California this is implemented, wait times for "undesirable" rides are going to skyrocket, and some rides will not be accepted at all.

It doesn't take a crystal ball to predict that ghettos will be among the hardest hit as far as wait times and stranded pax are concerned.

I suspect that not only is Uber banking on that to occur, they may be working behind the scenes getting the civil rights activists and consumer advocates stirred up as well.

The outcome could be similar to the 4 additional DFs that were taken away when they "apologized" to the drivers and said that customer service was suffering so much that they had no choice but to take away the 4 addtional DFs.

In this case, Uber would cynically and dishonestly try to present themselves as civil rights champions and consumer advocates siding against "selfish", "greedy", and "bigoted" cherry picking drivers.

Thus, in the interests of civil rights and consumer protection, they would declare showing destinations a failure and go back to hiding them.

Does this sound far fetched and conspiratorial? Yep.

I hope I'm wrong, but in case I'm right, drivers will need to fight hard to get the destination info and fight even harder to KEEP IT.



waldowainthrop said:


> Most of the drivers in my small home market say "oh I just take whatever rides if it's busy" which already puts me at a local advantage. If I had full ride information I would make so much more for less time on the road. I made $48 in 1:45 just now on a dead morning. Imagine if I had actually had intel about rides other than starting point and trip length. &#128556;


They say that now because they don't know the destinations. Once they get armed with that info, most will become cherry pickers.

In small markets where rides are hard to come by, cherry picking would be less of a factor, but even in places like that there are garbage trips that are simply not worth doing without a much higher payout.


----------



## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

Life is Short ~ Enjoy it said:


> Rent a car &#128663; is $840
> Gas $ ______
> Hours worked
> Less taxes got to take out for that
> ...





waldowainthrop said:


> You are forgetting insurance, repairs not covered by the rental company and a lot of incidental expenses. Renting is extremely expensive and risky and should not be done lightly.
> 
> My rental cost is $162 per week, by the way.
> 
> ...


you get 30 mpg in the city ? 
You left out taxes unless of course 
Screenshot would justify your numbers 
Anyone can pencil ✏ in #s
Enjoy the Grind



sellkatsell44 said:


> &#128052;&#129354;&#128514;
> 
> **too lazy to find a gif of beating dead horse**


Did someone say Horse


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Life is Short ~ Enjoy it said:


> you get 30 mpg in the city ?
> You left out taxes unless of course
> Screenshot would justify your numbers
> Anyone can pencil ✏ in #s
> Enjoy the Grind












I get 29mpg combined on cheap E85 or 33mpg on 87. I do a mix of highway and non-congested city driving. The number in the photo is averaged over 400+ miles of typical rideshare driving, not some road trip on an interstate. 30mpg at 87 octane prices was almost a pessimistic number.

I know about taxes, but that is a variable amount. Take out a third of my pay (zero deductions) if you think that is appropriate. I am also not a single income household.

It's almost as if any answer I have won't be good enough. I am working on a business for something completely separate from rideshare - don't read this as me trying to defend a poorly paid job.


----------



## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> View attachment 378097
> 
> 
> I know about taxes, but that is a variable amount. Take out a third of my pay (zero deductions) if you think that is appropriate.
> ...


My friend I praise you 
Congratulations &#127870;&#127882; 
I did it , and a zombie &#129503;‍♀ I won't be 
Don't puke &#129326; Out Fake #s is all I'm saying 
2 rides a hour is considered miraculous 
Enjoy the Journey


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Life is Short ~ Enjoy it said:


> My friend I praise you
> Congratulations &#127870;&#127882;
> I did it , and a zombie &#129503;‍♀ I won't be
> Don't puke &#129326; Out Fake #s is all I'm saying
> ...


My actual rate is around 1.8 rides per online hour in a typical week. Some online time is not actually "work" time since I leave the app on when I am doing other things and decide if a ride is worth taking. So somewhere between 1.8 and 2 of actual measured work time is what I usually see. This week is around 1.3 per hour, since I've been fed mostly long rides (longest 90 minutes).

They aren't fake numbers, they are representative of what I can make and are roughly around what I would call minimum viable targets. Anyone making less than that should consider not renting a car for rideshare. I disclaimed that they were not real reported numbers, and I really will post revenue and expenses at some point if there is interest when I am done with UberX. Would you rather I show you real screenshots of a week where I made only $250 with family visiting or a week where I made $1300+ where I grinded? I'd have to show you all of my numbers for anyone to believe me, including gas receipts and tax summaries from Uber. Who cares about gross pay, right? It's hard to show screenshots that aren't just cherry picked anyway.

Anyway, rideshare is a crap gig and I absolutely love it. If they gave me more information about rides I would become a horrible person and not meet as many people in a week.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> The point of this thread is to point out that by not knowing the destinations before accepting trip offers, drivers are giving BILLIONS of dollars per year to Uber and Lyft on a silver platter. That's a fact.
> 
> That a small number of drivers are able to make a go of it doesn't change that fact.


If drivers knew the destination ahead of time there would be no Uber or Lyft.


----------



## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Definitely. But if they gave me that information I would go from being a somewhat profitable driver to being a ruthless cherry picker who costs Uber money. I can see why they don't provide it. Anyone who is smarter than the average driver would make a killing with that information and Uber knows it.


most experienced drivers already ruthlessly cherry pick for 4+ years 90+% of requests have been ignored or cancelled

5000 rides & avergaged $50 a ride

you know what though if I needed to do something near drop off I might take that $4 ride for the gas $, if I need to head downtown or wherever but the traffic stinks i might take that ride since its on the way.....

thats how the system is supposed to work send the contract to the closest driver till one accepts everybody wins

for whatever reasons some drivers like the long airport rides & some like shorties, some have to be somewhere others dont

hiding the info just causes animosity & hate, if I get there & its a $4-8 ride im cancelling on principle i lost $1-2 charge it to the game better than wasting 20+ minutes & losing $2+ dollars & now that riders mad

only reason i updated hoping theyre forced to show this as i turned on eats again & they now show all info so the $4.26 mcdonalds delivery that would of took 10-30 minutes i can ignore than some child or desperate exploitable that wants the $3 an hour delivery has the choice hes not being tricked hes just stupid

Im sorry but 25 years ago as a teen you wasnt gettin a ride for less than $5 lol I need 10 tacos to leave my bed in 2020

nothing would change here accept theyd prob get 2-3 more rides from me daily, in 2015 first 90 days they were getting 20-30 rides daily, down to 11, down to 7, now down to 1-3 lol i only make 400 a week less, its not worth doing an extra 100+ rides a week for an extra 200 bucks net lmao

trying to trick me into driving for free or a loss isnt going to buy any good will & any driver actually doing $3-8 gross rides is guaraunteed to fail

im only interested in running my business in a profitable manner & the details of my contract help when 90+% are not worth an adults time












Demon said:


> If drivers knew the destination ahead of time there would be no Uber or Lyft.


there is no uber lyft
96% fail & they lose $12+ million a day
the top cashed out

unless they want to retroactivily pay every driver whose ever given a ride a min $5 for every ride ever given, start paying unemployment, workers comp etc they will be forced to show this

then if math flunkies still take that $3-4 gross ride with full disclosure then theres no coercion they will fail but by choice not by an app sending blank contracts that defraud drivers 90+% of the time

the entire business model is deception, humans actually think 50-90% of fare belongs to them, they could get by with 3 employees per state but have 10,000+ criminals that produce & do nothing

50 million rides is 1 salary & compensation for 50 million rides when drivers netting $1 or less

really wish theyd just stop demand already terrible, a 5 min switch could turn it around but i gotta keep reminding myself its a ponzi scam


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Believe me, if I owned a car for rideshare and drove it in a busy city I would be a ruthless cherry picker at all times. In a market like Colorado Springs you can’t cherry pick to the same degree as a market like LA or DC otherwise your revenue ceiling would be comically low. My gig is different as I don’t really care about miles since it’s not my depreciation and I won’t even have this car past the current set of tires.

Gas is cheap, weekly car rent is a fixed cost, and opportunity costs are lower. For me, profit consists of any trip that is more likely to tip and more likely to go somewhere useful, and is long enough to justify moving the car. The car eats the miles while I focus on demand hunting and time management.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

troothequalstroll said:


> most experienced drivers already ruthlessly cherry pick for 4+ years 90+% of requests have been ignored or cancelled
> 
> 5000 rides & avergaged $50 a ride
> 
> ...


There's still no coercion or deception, when the driver arrives at the pickup, they learn the destination & can choose to cancel the ride.

Uber & Lyft are a scam, people should stop working with them.


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## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> My actual rate is around 1.8 rides per online hour in a typical week. Some online time is not actually "work" time since I leave the app on when I am doing other things and decide if a ride is worth taking. So somewhere between 1.8 and 2 of actual measured work time is what I usually see. This week is around 1.3 per hour, since I've been fed mostly long rides (longest 90 minutes).
> 
> They aren't fake numbers, they are representative of what I can make and are roughly around what I would call minimum viable targets. Anyone making less than that should consider not renting a car for rideshare. I disclaimed that they were not real reported numbers, and I really will post revenue and expenses at some point if there is interest when I am done with UberX. Would you rather I show you real screenshots of a week where I made only $250 with family visiting or a week where I made $1300+ where I grinded? I'd have to show you all of my numbers for anyone to believe me, including gas receipts and tax summaries from Uber. Who cares about gross pay, right? It's hard to show screenshots that aren't just cherry picked anyway.
> 
> Anyway, rideshare is a crap gig and I absolutely love it. If they gave me more information about rides I would become a horrible person and not meet as many people in a week.


You my friend need to run for President 
Collusion with Delusion
After 100 rides a week your in a coma call if family in town what ever you like .


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Life is Short ~ Enjoy it said:


> You my friend need to run for President
> Collusion with Delusion
> After 100 rides a week your in a coma call if family in town what ever you like .


Yeah I mean I'll be ready for retirement at 10000 rides retiring in style. &#128517;


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## daveinlv (Jun 9, 2017)

CTK said:


> While I totally agree that not seeing destination greatly hurts our pay, I disagree that drivers' pay is the reason for U/L's opposition to showing destination. I think that there is such an abundance of money- losing rides - I might go as far as to say that *most* rides are money losers for drivers - that U/L know that all but the most oblivious drivers would decline these rides if they knew in advance. These rides are Uber's & Lyft's bread and butter, and they can't risk stranding these riders.


In my case, some times I want ONLY short, min-fare rides, other times I want a longer ride. Like yesterday, I'd been getting short airport-to-hotel rides, which in Las Vegas, usually means $4-$5. I'd been getting them, usually stacked on top of each other. It was getting close to going home for dinner, and I get one that's waaaaay off to the north end of town. I debated on whether to cancel it, but I am not happy cancelling a ride once the rider is basically IN my car, so I took the ride, but I'd MUCH
preferred to pass on it and let somebody else who WANTED a long ride at that time take it..



SHalester said:


> hard pass. PTimers really don't have a chance to get to gold. It's a unicorn. A blue unicorn during a purple full moon.....


Protip: UberPro is for fulltime drivers, part-timers need not apply...


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## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> The lost revenue isn't spread around to other drivers, it goes straight to Uber's bank account.


I should hope so.
Per Uber
⚠ "_As we aim to reduce Driver incentives to improve our financial performance, we expect Driver dissatisfaction will generally increase."_

Whether it be junk fees or reduced driver earnings
Uber views drivers as Piggy &#128055; Banks on all financial levels.

Problem isn't Uber
Problem is service providers deriving pleasure from Humiliation


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## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

Life is Short ~ Enjoy it said:


> You my friend need to run for President
> Collusion with Delusion
> After 100 rides a week your in a coma call if family in town what ever you like .


Show me this kind of screenshot


daveinlv said:


> In my case, some times I want ONLY short, min-fare rides, other times I want a longer ride. Like yesterday, I'd been getting short airport-to-hotel rides, which in Las Vegas, usually means $4-$5. I'd been getting them, usually stacked on top of each other. It was getting close to going home for dinner, and I get one that's waaaaay off to the north end of town. I debated on whether to cancel it, but I am not happy cancelling a ride once the rider is basically IN my car, so I took the ride, but I'd MUCH
> preferred to pass on it and let somebody else who WANTED a long ride at that time take it..
> 
> 
> Protip: UberPro is for fulltime drivers, part-timers need not apply...


Uber drivers net $7.75 an hour 
Do any math you like 
Short rides long rides 
Morning noon or night
✏&#128663;&#128042;&#127876;✏&#127796;


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

daveinlv said:


> part-timers need not apply.


That's the exact point I was making. A few hours a day with 1pt rides it is a steep climb to get to 800pt. And, really, once you get gold there isn't all that much that is earth shaking. Yeah, more info on the ping would be nice. but it should also be there already.......the other stuff in gold is useless to me to the point I won't stay online longer or work more days, which is the goal of the pro rewards......


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

Demon said:


> There's still no coercion or deception, when the driver arrives at the pickup, they learn the destination & can choose to cancel the ride.
> 
> Uber & Lyft are a scam, people should stop working with them.


if youve provided 1-20 minutes of free labor, gas, time & the contract when you arrives results in negative pay, zero pay, pay that doesnt cover your costs, or less than minimum wage after costs it IS coercion & deception, its literally human trafficking

why is it blank they know all the details? you think theyd send their magic 50+K each non existent robot 20+ minutes to pick up an x or pool fare that pays $3-4 gross lol they will try & trick a human 15+ million times per day & succeed because $3 is better than 0, 10 drivers could cancel 1 desperate future failure gets it & uber lyft make $4 more than the driver lol

20 trips per day lets call it 5 minutes free labor or $1-2 minimum costs is 100 minutes a day almost 2 hours per day free labor just to get the details of your contract thats a full 40 hour week per month labors not getting paid for

call each trip just $1 in costs to pick up thats $20 a day $400 a month just to get the details of your contracts

$400 a month 40+ hours per month not paid off the clock just driving to get details of your contract it ads up especially when 90+% of the contracts gross less than $10 & result in a loss lol you cant agree to work for free or illegal wages

that doesnt even count since you have no idea where youll end up you could be 20-60+ minutes away from home, work, or where you need to be thats not compensated for

but yes it is a scam 4% can figure it out or are blessed to live in the handful of honey holes every market has, 96% do stop working for them by design

dead miles arent new anything under $1ish a mile is a fools errand, at that point might as well just pull up cancel offer cash rides for $10 cuz anything less you WILL fail but thanks for supporting your community


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## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

troothequalstroll said:


> if youve provided 1-20 minutes of free labor, gas, time & the contract when you arrives results in negative pay, zero pay, pay that doesnt cover your costs, or less than minimum wage after costs it IS coercion & deception, its literally human trafficking
> 
> why is it blank they know all the details? you think theyd send their magic 50+K each non existent robot 20+ minutes to pick up an x or pool fare that pays $3-4 gross lol they will try & trick a human 15+ million times per day & succeed because $3 is better than 0, 10 drivers could cancel 1 desperate future failure gets it & uber lyft make $4 more than the driver lol
> 
> ...


You my friend are spot on and a Genius 
&#127942;&#128176;&#128176;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;



Life is Short ~ Enjoy it said:


> You my friend are spot on and a Genius
> &#127942;&#128176;&#128176;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;


Truth no Sheep &#128017; wants to hear


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

troothequalstroll said:


> if youve provided 1-20 minutes of free labor, gas, time & the contract when you arrives results in negative pay, zero pay, pay that doesnt cover your costs, or less than minimum wage after costs it IS coercion & deception, its literally human trafficking
> 
> why is it blank they know all the details? you think theyd send their magic 50+K each non existent robot 20+ minutes to pick up an x or pool fare that pays $3-4 gross lol they will try & trick a human 15+ million times per day & succeed because $3 is better than 0, 10 drivers could cancel 1 desperate future failure gets it & uber lyft make $4 more than the driver lol
> 
> ...


Calling it human trafficking is a stretch. Drivers know what the deal is, if they don't like it they should stop driving. Why do people work with a company that does that?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Demon said:


> If drivers knew the destination ahead of time there would be no Uber or Lyft.


Not necessarily.

If Uber and Lyft are willing to stick to the basics of being rideshare companies, they could be profitable even with drivers knowing the destinations.

It would require them to charge pax realistic prices, and most would be willing to pay the necessary rates for the convenience. Those that can't or don't want to pay those prices can ride the bus.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> If Uber and Lyft are willing to stick to the basics of being rideshare companies, they could be profitable even with drivers knowing the destinations.
> 
> It would require them to charge pax realistic prices, and most would be willing to pay the necessary rates for the convenience. Those that can't or don't want to pay those prices can ride the bus.


There are no basics of ride share companies because they aren't ride share. There would be too many rides turned down to attract enough customers for these companies to stay in business.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

Demon said:


> Calling it human trafficking is a stretch. Drivers know what the deal is, if they don't like it they should stop driving. Why do people work with a company that does that?


no they dont know the deal its gamified a slot machine or scratch off ticket where 90% will pay you enough to play another scratch off or you crap out & 10% pay a legal wage

they knoe its a 90% of 0-$10 & a 10% to hit bigger so they gamble because $3 is better than 0 thats why people actually died for labor laws because criminals will exploit desperate & dumb as a mcchicken & a gallon of gas better than starving & being stuck on the side of the rode

theres only 1 reason to hide the contract details & thats to defraud desperate and or stupid people into providing free labor

its as much human trafficking as it is sharing, any ride im paid less than $8 im am human trafficked by uber lyft i would of not acceptted the contract if i knew the details in 1985 lmao i would of cancelled but they just threatened me with deactivation causing me to finish the ride under duress & worked for free

i have a wells fargo acounnt theyre crimininals, shop at walmart amazon sams club all have been found guilty of breaking the law, owned a ford knowing of their criminal acts with the pinto, same as everyone else no choice but to support evil in a 100% corrupt system but they least pay minimum wage in this country cant control the slave wages they pay overseas, i use android devices some use apple knowing their made with slave labor nothing i can do about it, im not going to use string and tin cans

im not dumb enough to just quit a $50+ an hour gig from bed but the 96% who fail takin the 90+% of rides i ignore or cancel have rights & theyre being violated daily

every day for 4+ years 90+% of the app is just attempts to human traffick me its ridicuolus i only turn on x to laugh was opted out of illegal pool first day

i just turned on eats after months becsuse they now show details got 20+ pings yesterday & will put together a graphic but not 1 was worth it or would of paid more than $4 for the hour unless i another request was guaraunteed after drop off which i dont expect 20 out of 20 delivery requests with details shows not 1 worth it

its illegal they belong in prison you cant even agree to the illegal terms in the contract by law they are in breach i cant agree to work for free i cant agree to work for $4 an hour the labor department & fbi is supposed to protect me from this labor trafficking


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

troothequalstroll said:


> no they dont know the deal its gamified a slot machine or scratch off ticket where 90% will pay you enough to play another scratch off or you crap out & 10% pay a legal wage
> 
> they knoe its a 90% of 0-$10 & a 10% to hit bigger so they gamble because $3 is better than 0 thats why people actually died for labor laws because criminals will exploit desperate & dumb as a mcchicken & a gallon of gas better than starving & being stuck on the side of the rode
> 
> ...


It's still nothing like human trafficking and there's not much ride sharing going on.

I do agree with you that this is like gambling but the numbers don't favor the drivers at all. Drivers aren't making anywhere near what they think they are because they're destroying their car in the process.

The reason they hide the destination is because the system would become unreliable if they did that. Too many drivers want to cherry pick, and there would be neighborhoods not served and the companies would be litigated out of business.

There's nothing illegal about what they're doing. Is it unethical to take advantage of people? Sure is. But drivers know they're not going to get the destination until they arrive at pickup. Drivers are doing this voluntarily, so if they don't like those terms they should stop.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

Demon said:


> It's still nothing like human trafficking and there's not much ride sharing going on.
> 
> I do agree with you that this is like gambling but the numbers don't favor the drivers at all. Drivers aren't making anywhere near what they think they are because they're destroying their car in the process.
> 
> ...


coercion isnt voluntary
96% do stop by design
yes illegal terms in contracts is illegal, sending blank contracts to defraud labor into working for free is illegal, wage theft is illegal, stealing ir fare adjustments weeks days hours after a ride from a noreply address & changing receipts is illegal lol, trying to trick me into working for free than threatning me if i cancel is illegal, paying $3 an hour is illegal, predatory pricing & illegal wages are illegal, lying about tips being included is illegal, being negligent by not verifying inspection forms is illegal, murdering a homeless woman due to negligence is illegal, stealing intelectual property from google is illegal, obstructing justice by geofencing & blocking govt regulators is illegal, elder abuse is illegal, bait & switch false advertising recruitment ads are illegal, stalking riders drivers when app is off is illegal, using microphone on labors phone to listen in is illegal lol, discrimination of women at the workplace is illegal, money laundering is illegal everything uber lyft does is pretty much illegal

calling me an independent contractor & hiding the details of my contract hoping im stupid or desperate enough to work for $3-4 an hour is illegal

if you dont cherry pick 96% chance you will fail because 90+% of rides dont cover costs or pay illegal wages this is labor trafficking , labor is human so human trafficking, dumb & desperate people have rights coercion & duress is not the same a force or violence except when it comes to the law, you cannot decive trick defraud manipulate people into providing free labor it fits the definition of slavery & himan trafficking i did not define the words


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## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Yeah I mean I'll be ready for retirement at 10000 rides retiring in style. &#128517;


You'll be a zombie &#129503;‍♀ on meds way before that cupcake


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## Classified (Feb 8, 2018)

Uber could easily fix the issue by either paying us for the dead miles to the rider, or fixing the algorithm so drivers don’t lose out, 

if trip x is min fare, then only send it to drivers x distance away, simple algorithm, driver earning protection, at min fare I need to do 7 trips per hour, so I refuse all trips past 6mins, it only hurts Uber not myself, if they told me where the rider is going, I would accept more trips, and I’m not lowering my income to increase acceptance rate to get this trip duration feature, it’s like a stand off, between Uber an me, Uber won’t give me this feature unless I raise my acceptance. If they just gave me this feature, my acceptance would rise.

And since thishasn’t worked well for Uber, Uber arenow offering us consequetive trip bonus, to try and raise acceptance rates

I honestly don’t mind short trips at all, I just don’t like driving more than 6mins to the rider to do the short trip, I remember when Uber first launched trip stacking, it was great, every 2nd trip, the 2nd ping would be 1-2mins away from my next drop off, now all I get are 15-20min pings away,

me not accepting trips, helps other drivers, becuse they to must be getting the long pickup times to, and most likely finishing closer then I will be


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

troothequalstroll said:


> coercion isnt voluntary
> 96% do stop by design
> yes illegal terms in contracts is illegal, sending blank contracts to defraud labor into working for free is illegal, wage theft is illegal, stealing ir fare adjustments weeks days hours after a ride from a noreply address & changing receipts is illegal lol, trying to trick me into working for free than threatning me if i cancel is illegal, paying $3 an hour is illegal, predatory pricing & illegal wages are illegal, lying about tips being included is illegal, being negligent by not verifying inspection forms is illegal, murdering a homeless woman due to negligence is illegal, stealing intelectual property from google is illegal, obstructing justice by geofencing & blocking govt regulators is illegal, elder abuse is illegal, bait & switch false advertising recruitment ads are illegal, stalking riders drivers when app is off is illegal, using microphone on labors phone to listen in is illegal lol, discrimination of women at the workplace is illegal, money laundering is illegal everything uber lyft does is pretty much illegal
> 
> ...


That's not what human trafficking is. 
What law are they breaking by not telling you the destination before you get to the pick up?


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## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

Classified said:


> Uber could easily fix the issue by either paying us for the dead miles to the rider, or fixing the algorithm so drivers don't lose out,
> 
> if trip x is min fare, then only send it to drivers x distance away, simple algorithm, driver earning protection, at min fare I need to do 7 trips per hour, so I refuse all trips past 6mins, it only hurts Uber not myself, if they told me where the rider is going, I would accept more trips, and I'm not lowering my income to increase acceptance rate to get this trip duration feature, it's like a stand off, between Uber an me, Uber won't give me this feature unless I raise my acceptance. If they just gave me this feature, my acceptance would rise.
> 
> ...


Uber doesent Care 
The have plenty of &#128017;


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

Demon said:


> That's not what human trafficking is.
> What law are they breaking by not telling you the destination before you get to the pick up?


they are trying to defraud me into providing free labor by hiding the details i need to do due dilligence on whether the contract will cover my costs & pay me a legal minimum wage over those costs

deception, lies, fraud, trickery are all coersion

they are literally trying to human traffic me & are violating my 13th amendment rights

i cant agree to work for free

$3-4 gross is free
$4-8 gross is less than a legal wage its a 1980 minimum wage

they are engaging in blatant fraud & labor trafficking labor is human so human trafficking

threatning to fire me for cancelling instead of working for free is human labor trafficking

sending me a request 10+ miles away that only goes 1 mile and leaves me in 30 minutes of traffick for $3-4 gross is human trafficking

paying a .60 per mile 1975 cab rate & taking 50-90% of fares in 2019 is human trafficking

illegal wages & predatory pricing is also illegal

editing receipts days weeks months later is also illegal

you can lie when a company does it its fraud thats also illegal lol

Labor trafficking is a form of modern-day slavery in which individuals perform labor or services through the use of force, fraud, or coercion.

Labor trafficking includes situations of debt bondage, forced labor, and involuntary child labor. Labor traffickers use violence, threats, lies, and other forms of coercion to force people to work against their will in many industries.

it is a crime to send me a blank contract that requires free labor & doesnt cover costs period

it is a crime to lie to me or in ubers case send a blank contract that will require free labor

it is a lie to threaten to fire me for cancelling instead of providing you with free labor

this isnt advanced trig its basic 3rd grade math to verify no algos needed its illegal


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

troothequalstroll said:


> they are trying to defraud me into providing free labor by hiding the details i need to do due dilligence on whether the contract will cover my costs & pay me a legal minimum wage over those costs
> 
> deception, lies, fraud, trickery are all coersion
> 
> ...


It's still not human trafficking and never will be.
What specific law are they breaking?


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## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

Camel trafficking


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

Demon said:


> It's still not human trafficking and never will be.
> What specific law are they breaking?


its called human trafficking

if i accept one blank contract & can verify my costs with receipts verifying my costs were not covered. i was coerced into providing free effing labor and uber lyft HUMAN TRAFFICKED ME.

PERIODT.

I can NOT agree to work for free PERIODT.

13th amendment.

the contract has illegal terms in it and is in breach you can not trick deceive defraud labor into working for free PERIODT

If I knew it was a $4-10 ride I would ignore as I dont work for free my costs are $4 per ride which i can verify as an xl only vehicle other drivers may be less but costs are $2-4 minimum per trip & im not working for $3-8 an hour after my costs either cuz im not a child

bye felicia im here for entertainment ignorance bores me

drive for 2 tacos if you feel its a choice i dont but i know someones driving from farther taking 90+% of the human trafficking i mean blank contract requests uber lyft sends me & 96% of them fail & its by design & illegal wages / wage theft / labor human trafficking

i no see u no mo
b gud and enjoy ride "share" like thats not FRAUD


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

troothequalstroll said:


> its called human trafficking
> 
> if i accept one blank contract & can verify my costs with receipts verifying my costs were not covered. i was coerced into providing free effing labor and uber lyft HUMAN TRAFFICKED ME.
> 
> ...


Here's the definition of human trafficking, "the action or practice of illegally transporting people from one country or area to another, typically for the purposes of forced labor or sexual exploitation."
Asking for the third time, what specific law are they breaking?


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## alvarezca (Mar 7, 2018)

nouberipo said:


> You don't think you ever had a money losing ride? LMFAO. After reading your post twice there seems to be only two educated conclusions I can come to. The first is that you are writing this as an Uber troll and get paid to write such propaganda that is misleading for the purpose of attempting to make Uber driving look better than it is. The second would be that you just don't understand numbers. Have you calculated your "earnings" minus employee taxes? employer taxes? depreciation? insurance? maintenance? cell phone use? time? I cannot believe you are an actual driver when you say you don't think you ever had a money losing ride......most rides are subsidized by the drivers via their pay. You ARE losing money every time you start driving. As for the 85% AR, this tells me you are accepting more than the average share of non-profitable rides as that is the only way to get to that percent and maintain it. Uber loves drivers that think like you hence the reason I believe you are likely being paid by Uber to write such garbage.


Agreed!


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## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

alvarezca said:


> Agreed!


You are spot on my friend &#127942;&#127942;&#127942;&#127942;
Uber i= $7.75 net


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Demon said:


> There would be too many rides turned down to attract enough customers for these companies to stay in business


First of all if Uber and Lyft go out of business that would be fine with me. New companies would open for business before U/L's bodies get cold.

I've addressed the acceptance rate issue on more than one occasion on this thread. Have you bothered to actually read it them?

To put it simply, the higher the pay rates, the higher the acceptance rates, period.


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## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

DoubleDee said:


> The whole term rideshare is a complete crock of crap. If it were really sharing a ride then there would be unlimited destination filters.
> 
> If not for Uber I would never drive to Newark or Patterson NJ. So I wouldn't be "sharing" a ride there.
> 
> ...


&#128002;&#128169;
Driving snowflakes on unprofitable rides is better?



oldfart said:


> yes Ive run all the numbers for the expenses you catalog in your post and my costs are
> 
> annual miles driven 70000
> 
> ...


You lost me at 10 minute pickup


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## Life is Short ~ Enjoy it (Oct 19, 2019)

Ms.Doe said:


> &#128002;&#128169;
> Driving snowflakes on unprofitable rides is better?
> 
> 
> You lost me at 10 minute pickup


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Ms.Doe said:


> &#128002;&#128169;
> Driving snowflakes on unprofitable rides is better?
> 
> 
> You lost me at 10 minute pickup


10 minute pickups are bad, but 20 min pickups are good.. But the issue isnt so much with the length of the pick up, as it is where the ride takes me..A short pick up for a ride that takes me to a dead area is much worse than a long pick up with a ride to a busy area


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## i9f3479f3h (May 29, 2019)

I remember as a younger man taxi's lining up and you'd tell them where you're going and if they didn't want to go that way they wouldn't take you. So, you'd simply ask the next driver and invariably within a very short time you'd be going where you wanted to and the driver would be making money heading in the direction he wanted to go. In effect taxi's are more 'ride sharing' than uber/lyft.


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