# The Facts of *Uber and Lyft Services.



## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

With UBER and LYFT Services: You are at high RISK liability.

If you taken the time to read your service agreement signed by you with these two parties (UBER and LYFT)

It written: We are software (platform) Company; we are not carriers or perform as transportation services. And we are not responsible of any liabilities or damages produce by others (drivers) to others (passengers) by using our application, software.

Meaning: Drivers are doing the service of transportation and drivers are totally responsible for any licenses, liabilities, accidents or damages to you and others, while doing an illegal commercial service in exchange of payment. This also is on the passenger agreement with different wording.

What is at RISK?

For you driver are at risk; a) Your life b) All your assets as properties, your bank accounts and any other valuable. If married, your wife’s assets might also be at risk. In case of an accident and if you go to legal court, all your assets are at risk.

For you passenger; a) you, your family, your friends might not be covered in case of an accident. B) Medical payment might have to be paid by you and family.

Passenger said: I paid insurance to Uber $1.00 per ride. – Yes, that is for an Umbrella policy that take effect after the first insurance has covered you with driver’s insurance but if driver’s insurance denied covering you because the Insurance carrier can claim “We cover personal insurance for driver, family and friends but not when vehicle is being use or giving a Commercial service as a Taxi. Drivers must have a separate policy under Commercial Line but your driver has no Commercial Insurance but a Personal Line Insurance.” Personal Line Auto Insurance cost about $2,000 per year and Commercial Line Auto Policy can cost up to $10 or $12 thousand per year depending on your State. Drivers cannot afford to pay the policy because UBER an LYFT do not pay enough.

Your $1.00 Insurance payment to Uber is also a protection that protects Uber from you in case there is any claim with the driver. When accidents happen, all insurance companies can claim you are not covered.

Good news is that Uber and Lyft are not off the hook yet. They claim they are not the transportation company performing the service but they are getting payments performed by others and act as a Carrier and Transportation Company. In other words; UBER and LYFT are employers and Drivers are employees performing for payments. In this case they are also responsible for your act of transportation. These would have to be figured out in court. You have to fight for it.

Uber payments $5.00 ride ($3.20 for driver + $1.00 Insurance + $0.80 for Uber) No tipping option.
Lyft Payments $5.00 ride ($4.00 for driver + $1.00 Lyft *has a tipping option)
Base on time and distance you can only do 3 to 4 rides per hour, when is busy.
Is it worth it?


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

From Uber Support when I told them I was concerned about city ordinances, and that I would like to get properly licensed:

"Thanks for reaching out about this. Many jurisdictions have not yet determined if or how to regulate innovative new services like Uber. We are actively working with the appropriate regulatory bodies to provide that clarity for our riders and partners. We love that you want to get involved, and we will definitely notify you if your assistance is needed.

That being said, you should partner with Uber in confidence. Our team has your back 100% and should you ever run into trouble as a result of your use of the Uber app, we will reimburse you for any regulatory citation received as well as provide any necessary legal support. At the moment, Jacksonville uberX partners are not required to have medallions.

I've escalated this issue to our Operations Manager so we can provide more information about the Brand Ambassador program.

Meanwhile, let us know if you have any other questions.

Best,"

(uber support)


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

Uber is just giving you words without meaning. At the end of the day, in a hard profile case their attorneys would asked you. What? Oh!! you did not read your contract? Do you have a copy of the signed contract? What does it say?

Yes true, UBER is paying some tickets but what about if they stop paying?

Who was caught in the act is you. And it is you and you the one that got the ticket. It was not Uber on the record. 

Now, if you call your Insurance Company and ask if you would be covered in case of an accident. They will tell you "No"
I do not give them too much information. They will drop you like a hot potato. + they will tell you not to do it. 
If there is an accident. I hope not. 
Who was caught driving? You - Not UBER - They are only an application on your phone. They are not responsible. That what the contract say.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

I don't know how this would play out in court, but Uber is putting us on the road. I never would have gone out on my own to try to pick up and drop off passengers. If we are skirting the law, they are facilitating and encouraging that.

I pick up and drop off in front of police officers. I have picked up government employees, lawyers, even a guy who is submitting his candidacy for mayor. Nothing has lead me to believe I am doing anything illegal.

I am acting with due diligence. I want to be properly licensed, etc., but Uber has promised me that they have my back. Without that assurance, I would not have continued to drive, risking penalties, and so on.

Have you ever heard the term "promissory estoppel"?



JaxBeachDriver said:


> That being said, you should partner with Uber in confidence. Our team has your back 100% and should you ever run into trouble as a result of your use of the Uber app, we will reimburse you for any regulatory citation received as well as provide any necessary legal support.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

The thing about contracts is that they are not always enforceable. They can say whatever they want, and some of it will hold up, but you cannot sign away your rights, and they cannot be held blameless if they are trying to do something illegal or dangerous via a contract.

Again, I'm clearly no lawyer. Some of this will be determined by legislation and the courts eventually.


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

I see. What I can say is. That they have a way out when they want to use it. 
Again, the operator is you. And you are the one at front. 
When something happen. They can say what they say in the contract. We are not a transportation company, we do not operate the vehicle. We are just a software company. Please request a copy of your contract via e-mail to [email protected] 
Please ck tomorrow with your insurance company. That is the first step. I do not want you or any one else to be at risk for a few dollars and because you did not know. Thank you.


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> The thing about contracts is that they are not always enforceable. They can say whatever they want, and some of it will hold up, but you cannot sign away your rights, and they cannot be held blameless if they are trying to do something illegal or dangerous via a contract.
> 
> Again, I'm clearly no lawyer. Some of this will be determined by legislation and the courts eventually.


Did they say you COULD NOT carry a commercial policy if you wanted to? Did they say it is not allowed for the UberX? could you get some clarification on that ? I'm very curious what their response would be to the direct question.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Courageous said:


> Did they say you COULD NOT carry a commercial policy if you wanted to? Did they say it is not allowed for the UberX? could you get some clarification on that ? I'm very curious what their response would be to the direct question.


All I know is that I submitted my required documentation to them. If they are just an application, why would they run background checks and require documentation to "partner" with them? They have lead me to believe that all of my documentation is sufficient, otherwise they would deactivate me until I get proper insurance, etc. I'm operating under the assumption that their insurance is covering the passenger.

"That being said, you should partner with Uber in confidence. Our team has your back 100% and should you ever run into trouble as a result of your use of the Uber app, we will reimburse you for any regulatory citation received as well as provide any necessary legal support."


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> ...you should partner with Uber in confidence. Our team has your back 100%...


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> All I know is that I submitted my required documentation to them. If they are just an application, why would they run background checks and require documentation to "partner" with them? They have lead me to believe that all of my documentation is sufficient, otherwise they would deactivate me until I get proper insurance, etc. I'm operating under the assumption that their insurance is covering the passenger.


Sure...but what Uber says is legal is not the law. Research the legal issues that Uber is actively engaged in all across our nation but most specifically your own city. I, personally, would never engage in business unless I was fully informed. We, as the transporters, are the Independent Contractors. We are the ones responsible for our business conduct... no one else.

It's interesting in the contract with Uber, they state that if they are sued as a result of our conduct (accident that we are at fault in or some other negative conduct) that they can come after us for compensation. I don't see anybody talking about that very pertinent point in the contract.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Courageous said:


> Sure...but what Uber says is legal is not the law. Research the legal issues that Uber is actively engaged in all across our nation but most specifically your own city. I, personally, would never engage in business unless I was fully informed. We, as the transporters, are the Independent Contractors. We are the ones responsible for our business conduct... no one else.
> 
> It's interesting in the contract with Uber, they state that if they are sued on our behalf that they can come after us for compensation. I don't see anybody talking about that very pertinent point in the contract.


If we act negligently or do something dangerous, sure, they can come after us. But that's true of anything. It doesn't mean they get to sidestep their role or place all blame on us. Just because it's in a contract doesn't make it 100 percent enforceable. That's why we have courts.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

For instance, your car can only safely hold 4 passengers, but you allow 5 passengers to squeeze in. You get into an accident. Is Uber liable for that? I'd say the driver is mostly liable for that. But the passenger (and lawyers) aren't going to go after the small fish of the driver making $3.20. Most Uber drivers are likely judgment-proof. The passengers/lawyers are going to go after the whale that is Uber.


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> For instance, your car can only safely hold 4 passengers, but you allow 5 passengers to squeeze in. You get into an accident. Is Uber liable for that? I'd say the driver is mostly liable for that. But the passenger (and lawyers) aren't going to go after the small fish of the driver making $3.20. Most Uber drivers are likely judgment-proof. The passengers/lawyers are going to go after the whale that is Uber.


And then Uber will come after you. Also, each UberX driver is knowingly and willingly in breach of that personal insurance policy that Uber has on file. Who's at fault there? Is that considered willful negligence?


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## RideshareGuru (Nov 17, 2014)

Courageous said:


> Did they say you COULD NOT carry a commercial policy if you wanted to? Did they say it is not allowed for the UberX? could you get some clarification on that ? I'm very curious what their response would be to the direct question.


They would LOVE IT if you got a commercial insurance policy because their policy is only primary to personal insurance, not commercial insurance. Basically, if you get commercial insurance, they have almost no liability for you whatsoever.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Courageous said:


> And then Uber will come after you. Also, each UberX driver is knowingly and willingly in breach of that personal insurance policy that Uber has on file. Who's at fault there? Is that considered willful negligence?


I submitted my insurance info to Uber, and they deemed it acceptable.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Courageous said:


> And then Uber will come after you.


Exactly. But what can they get from most of us? Most of us are driving for uber because we are in a bind and need supplemental income. Can't get blood from a stone.


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

I know the situation. I am already telling my clients that if in case we are in an accident, do not mention UBER on the report if you want to get coverage.
Personal line Insurance covers friends but not customers. UBER is well aware of this situation but legally they will not put it in writing. I asked, and they gave me the run around with words that mean nothing. Now, they say your Insurance is primer or it is first to cover for damages and injuries. After that their umbrella policy will cover for extra costs up to 1 million. It is not right. If you do not know this, you will make a mistake that could be quiet costly.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Courageous said:


> Also, each UberX driver is knowingly and willingly in breach of that personal insurance policy that Uber has on file. Who's at fault there? Is that considered willful negligence?


I'm not willfully or knowingly in breach of anything. Like I said, I submitted my documents, and I presume Uber covers the passenger and so on while the ride is active. When the ride isn't active, I go back to being just a plain Ol' American in her car.


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

Presuming is not a fact. Again, your primer insurance, your own insurance company will not cover you if you are in accident while driving as UBER driver. Home work: Have you ck your policy? How much does it cover? Property damage? Personally injury? Bodily injury? medical? others? uninsured motorist? who is covered? Now you know.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

@MoneyUber4

I have pretty good insurance. Full coverage, even though my car is paid off and I'm not required to have it.

I also do have a $1 million umbrella policy that covers my vehicles and properties.

I think I'm fairly well covered, but I hope and plan to never find out.


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

$1 million coverage?

Is that all?

Most Policies that cover passenger for Hire and Reward in the UK have a £10million limit.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

For a private individual one million in an umbrella policy is probably adequate, unless one owns multiple properties with high values, or other assets. Jax is not talking about fleet livery coverage such as you describe.


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## UberLuxbod (Sep 2, 2014)

If you chose to carry passengers then being underinsured or improperly insured is not a good plan.

And i am not talking about a Fleet or Livery policy.

Just the kind of Policy that Uber customers in London are protected by in the event of an accident.

And that includes X, XL, and Exec. Not just Lux.

I honestly don't think Uber (X, XL) customers in the US realise how underinsured they are when using the platform.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> @MoneyUber4
> 
> I have pretty good insurance. Full coverage, even though my car is paid off and I'm not required to have it.
> 
> ...


I have had several conversations over the last couple of years with some insurance executives and other experts regarding this new personally owned commercial transportation.

Of course I cannot speak for others, nor do I know anything about your situation, but just know this: the idea that you turn into just a private personal vehicle after dropping off a client is not necessarily true.
Particularly if you were on commercial property like airports, hotels, other public areas where commercial transportation is typically contracted. The example given to me, by an underwriter was this: "if you drop off a passenger , and after departing their home, strike their child on a bicycle, you were an uber driver, the pax will sue you as an Uber driver, your insurance will most likely deny any coverage, and drop you. Get into an accident in a gated community, where you do not live, nor have any friends or relatives, again you will be sued as an Uber driver, if there is any indication(trade dress, phone app, etc).

More and more companies are directly asking if you were in engaged in livery service at time of accident, and most will consider your departure part of livery service. Lie to them, and they can press charges.

My suggestion, FWIW: 
Don't just go on a hunch, get full details in formal writing, to be safe. The insurance industry is really starting to track this, because livery use increases your accident risk considerably, and they don't plan to be on the paying end with personal use rates.


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

Good! Remember that is a personal line insurance policy. It will no cover any accident if you are using your vehicle for hire. 

Now have any one seen UBER insurance policy? Does it cover any UBER driver?
If we are covered. Why we are not getting a copy of it?

May be is a surprise policy that we will get to see when we get into an accident. huh!


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> I have had several conversations over the last couple of years with some insurance executives and other experts regarding this new personally owned commercial transportation.
> 
> Of course I cannot speak for others, nor do I know anything about your situation, but just know this: the idea that you turn into just a private personal vehicle after dropping off a client is not necessarily true.
> Particularly if you were on commercial property like airports, hotels, other public areas where commercial transportation is typically contracted. The example given to me, by an underwriter was this: "if you drop off a passenger , and after departing their home, strike their child on a bicycle, you were an uber driver, the pax will sue you as an Uber driver, your insurance will most likely deny any coverage, and drop you. Get into an accident in a gated community, where you do not live, nor have any friends or relatives, again you will be sued as an Uber driver, if there is any indication(trade dress, phone app, etc).
> ...





MoneyUber4 said:


> Good! Remember that is a personal line insurance policy. It will no cover any accident if you are using your vehicle for hire.
> 
> Now have any one seen UBER insurance policy? Does it cover any UBER driver?
> If we are covered. Why we are not getting a copy of it?
> ...


So, this is where it's really confusing. Does anyone actually know how accidents have played out with Uber in the past? My guess is they settle out of court and, of course, there's a nondisclosure clause (is that the term?), I would guess. In the discussion about insurance and an accident the other day, it seems there are just as many guesses as to how the insurance works as there are Uber partners (and non partners) in this forum.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

UberLuxbod said:


> If you chose to carry passengers then being underinsured or improperly insured is not a good plan.
> 
> And i am not talking about a Fleet or Livery policy.
> 
> ...


So, I've read on here that commercial/rideshare policies are 4- to 5-times the price of individual coverage. If that's the case, I sure as hell can't afford to keep doing this.

To answer your original question, if I don't start making more money (and a lot more tips), I'll have to quit Uber, which, again, is unfortunate because I enjoy it for the most part.

Can you write off insurance as a business expense? I realize this sounds ignorant, but I really don't know.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Clarification: I wasn't saying that Jax has adequate insurance for driving for hire. My point was that she probably has a good policy for her personal circumstances in place when she bought it before signing with Uber. As she mentioned above, there are plenty of opinions here regarding Uber's insurance and personal policies. Interestingly with regard to Uber's coverage is that they seem to feel that a one million dollar limit is adequate. Maybe they will self insure beyond that?


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

Actually all your expenses are tax deductible because is a business expense and include gas, tolls, car maintenance, car washing, tires etc. They should show in your income tax form for income and expenses under schedule C.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Tx Rides would know, but I would bet you could write off the full cost of insurance, provided you made enough money to write against!


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

It has been noted in another thread that car washes are not a deductable expense. Also, if you are using the IRS mileage deduction, gas, maintenance etc are included. You can still take tolls and parking. I'm not sure about commercial insurance for livery.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> So, this is where it's really confusing. Does anyone actually know how accidents have played out with Uber in the past? My guess is they settle out of court and, of course, there's a nondisclosure clause (is that the term?), I would guess. In the discussion about insurance and an accident the other day, it seems there are just as many guesses as to how the insurance works as there are Uber partners (and non partners) in this forum.


You mostly hear about the horrible accidents. But since we don't normally hear about day-to-day accidents and how they are paid, until there Is some kind of class-action, Resulting in tons of documents released, it's unlikely that we will really know. But the insurance companies definitely no. They are discussing this, working up ways to prevent it, etc. I read some predictions here that insurance companies will soon clamor to come up with hybrid policies, because there is money to be made. Of course companies will provide a policy, if they can get underwriting for it, but it will not be cheap. It is going to be considerably higher than personal coverage. The big challenge which has been explained to me in multiple round tables, is that it is nearly impossible for an insurance investigator to prove that a driver was on personal time versus commercial. It is very costly to prove, but very costly to cover as personal considering the higher rate of incidents which are expected. Another sad reality is: when injury and their attorneys hear commercial, the damages tend to go up exponentially. That is why most companies will not provide commercial insurance without a lot of requirements. We had a lot of criteria to meet in order to get our policy. The drivers must be 25+, we had to be in the business for so long, needed business references, Etc.


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

I believe that getting commercial policy will bring you up and qualify as an UBER Black car. Now it is a different story with commercial licensing but you can get paid double or triple UBER X. Now on regards to expenses as car washing: If you have a receipt, it does qualify as a maintenance expense.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Tx Rides would know, but I would bet you could write off the full cost of insurance, provided you made enough money to write against!


Yes, livery commercial insurance is deductible, as are car washes. Suits are not, umbrellas are


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## Long time Nyc cab driver (Dec 12, 2014)

MoneyUber4 said:


> With UBER and LYFT Services: You are at high RISK liability.
> 
> If you taken the time to read your service agreement signed by you with these two parties (UBER and LYFT)
> 
> ...


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

MoneyUber4 said:


> I believe that getting commercial policy will bring you up and qualify as an UBER Black car. Now it is a different story with commercial licensing but you can get paid double or triple UBER X. Now on regards to expenses as car washing: If you have a receipt, it does qualify as a maintenance expense.


You have to be a locally permitted livery company, well according to Uber, but they don't give two hoots about permits, so maybe that has changed too ;-)


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## Long time Nyc cab driver (Dec 12, 2014)

I think that you answered your own question.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

MoneyUber4 said:


> I believe that getting commercial policy will bring you up and qualify as an UBER Black car. Now it is a different story with commercial licensing but you can get paid double or triple UBER X. Now on regards to expenses as car washing: If you have a receipt, it does qualify as a maintenance expense.





Tx rides said:


> You have to be a locally permitted livery company, well according to Uber, but they don't give two hoots about permits, so maybe that has changed too ;-)


Then I would have to get an actual black car. I have a Honda Pilot now. I was thinking about a nice, used Tahoe... But don't I have to find out if Black is open in my area? Additionally, I'm not sure im comfortable spending any money up front with how expendable we are for Uber.


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## Courageous (Sep 18, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I'm not willfully or knowingly in breach of anything. Like I said, I submitted my documents, and I presume Uber covers the passenger and so on while the ride is active. When the ride isn't active, I go back to being just a plain Ol' American in her car.


So have you informed your insurance company about the change in use of your vehicle? They are quite clear, thanks to ride-shares, of your vehicle use. Number of miles, purpose, etc etc.

You miss my point. Your "personal" insurance policy has nothing to do with Uber and "will have nothing to do with Uber", or any other 'for hire' work out of your vehicle. Have you let your "personal" insurance underwriter know of any changes? Have you let them know that you are doing "for hire" work in your car? They don't care that some "commercial" policy kicks in when passenger is in car .. that's moot point. They only want to know what YOUR use of vehicle will be.

This is NOT about Uber at all...It's about your responsibility in regards to YOUR binding agreement with your personal insurance policy. To comply with YOUR personal policy coverage, they should be informed of any changes to original terms. Those original terms will explicitly disqualify you from coverage if any commercial , or for that matter , "business", is conducted in your vehicle.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Then I would have to get an actual black car. I have a Honda pilot now. I was thinking about a Tahoe...


Too small. You really need the extended cargo space, or you can't maximize the seats if they have luggage.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Too small. You really need the extended cargo space, or you can't maximize the seats if they have luggage.


We run Yukon XLs


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Too small. You really need the extended cargo space, or you can't maximize the seats if they have luggage.


What would you suggest?


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> We run Yukon XLs


Is your gas cost insane? What's the life expectancy on those?


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> We run Yukon XLs





JaxBeachDriver said:


> Then I would have to get an actual black car. I have a Honda Pilot now. I was thinking about a nice, used Tahoe... But don't I have to find out if Black is open in my area? Additionally, I'm not sure im comfortable spending any money up front with how expendable we are for Uber.


Btw, our Yukons are not black, we hate black vehicles, so hard to keep pristine! We have mostly dark gray, and our clients AND drivers love it, (can make-ready in minutes with microfiber cloth and spray black way!) another reason I'm glad we don't affiliate with Uber, we like our dark gray! We do have black BMW and Mercedes but that's because we stole them! (Price wise, that is!!! Lol!)


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Is your gas cost insane? What's the life expectancy on those?


We hit 200k on last one, then traded, but could have kept it another year for airport runs, just couldn't justify keeping it on the insurance, etc. We get a wicked good rate on rentals if we need extra. We avg 18 mpg


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> We hit 200k on last one, then traded, but could have kept it another year for airport runs, just couldn't justify keeping it on the insurance, etc. We get a wicked good rate on rentals if we need extra. We avg 18 mpg


My pilot has been getting 18-22 lately...


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> My pilot has been getting 18-22 lately...


that is a lot lower than I would expect for a smaller vehicle.but in all seriousness, if you are looking to get an SUV in order to get the XL, large group rates, definitely go with one large enough to handle six or seven people's luggage.The short ones will barely even hold golf clubs, and if you DO have clubs, if you have more than two passengers, you'll have to put luggage in the passenger area. We get a lot of clients with golf clubs, and really hate to see the demise of the Lincoln town car, because it is one of the only "affordable" sedans which easily holds golf clubs and luggage. The BMW 750i does, but we can't justify a fleet of those, since we do so much airport work. Most airport riders don't really want to pay the extra money for luxury vehicles. Not in Austin anyway.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> So, this is where it's really confusing. Does anyone actually know how accidents have played out with Uber in the past? My guess is they settle out of court and, of course, there's a nondisclosure clause (is that the term?), I would guess. In the discussion about insurance and an accident the other day, it seems there are just as many guesses as to how the insurance works as there are Uber partners (and non partners) in this forum.


I tried to reply to this earlier, and merged two replies. I have a hard time responding via my smart phone.

I do know there have been several cases documented in various forums, here, Facebook, and redditt , describing the lack of coverage for a driver and the driver's vehicle. Uber's collision/comprehensive is contingent on your personal plan as primary. Then there is the deductible. All said, if your vehicle is your source of income, you are probably screwed.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> that is a lot lower than I would expect for a smaller vehicle.but in all seriousness, if you are looking to get an SUV in order to get the XL, large group rates, definitely go with one large enough to handle six or seven people's luggage.The short ones will barely even hold golf clubs, and if you DO have clubs, if you have more than two passengers, you'll have to put luggage in the passenger area. We get a lot of clients with golf clubs, and really hate to see the demise of the Lincoln town car, because it is one of the only "affordable" sedans which easily holds golf clubs and luggage. The BMW 750i does, but we can't justify a fleet of those, since we do so much airport work. Most airport riders don't really want to pay the extra money for luxury vehicles. Not in Austin anyway.


So I really enjoy driving, but the uber thing is making me frustrated and uncomfortable the more time goes on. I wonder how UberBlack drivers do around here...


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

ps I already get UberXL with my pilot. I was interested in maybe switching to black... Would a town car be more appropriate than a Yukon XL? Assuming I were to build/get my own clientele, I feel an SUV would be far more versatile... But I'm just brainstorming for the future. Getting ahead of myself


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> So I really enjoy driving, but the uber thing is making me frustrated and uncomfortable the more time goes on. I wonder how UberBlack drivers do around here...


What's regular black car service like there? Honestly, if you can build a base of riders who book in advance, you'll love it even more!


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> ps I already get UberXL with my pilot. I was interested in maybe switching to black... Would a town car be more appropriate than a Yukon XL? Assuming I were to build/get my own clientele, I feel an SUV would be far more versatile... But I'm just brainstorming for the future. Getting ahead of myself


They stop making the town car in 2011, so you may be able to pick one up that is still suitable for a while, depending on where you are. But don't bank on a Lincoln town car these days. Yes, an SUV is more versatile, however keep in mind that if the demand is not there that day for the SUV, you may have to reduce rates and run as a normal vehicle.we do runs every once in a while as city and rates mainly because the SUV is the only thing available at the time. Is there a good opportunity for sight seeing where you are, that's a plus with SUVs


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> What's regular black car service like there? Honestly, if you can build a base of riders who book in advance, you'll love it even more!


I see a lot of town cars, and a few big, black SUVs... Maybe Yukons or Suburbans. I didn't pay much attention. Some people say they get picked up by a bmw or Mercedes on occasion (Uber black getting desperate and takin X, I guess).


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> They stop making the town car in 2011, so you may be able to pick one up that is still suitable for a while, depending on where you are. But don't bank on a Lincoln town car these days. Yes, an SUV is more versatile, however keep in mind that if the demand is not there that day for the SUV, you may have to reduce rates and run as a normal vehicle.we do runs every once in a while as city and rates mainly because the SUV is the only thing available at the time. Is there a good opportunity for sight seeing where you are, that's a plus with SUVs


Opportunity for sight seeing? What do you mean? Like drive people around and show them the city?


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I see a lot of town cars, and a few big, black SUVs... Maybe Yukons or Suburbans. I didn't pay much attention. Some people say they get picked up by a bmw or Mercedes on occasion (Uber black getting desperate and takin X, I guess).


Search yelp, Twitter, Google for reviews of car services in your area, to get an idea of the number, and level of providers. Do some research on the ground, too, meet hotel staff, find out what the demand is like, and what they think about the existing level of service. If the supply and quality is high, They are probably always looking for good drivers, so explore chauffeur opportunities with existing companies, (use THEIR cars and insurance!!) if supply and quality is tight, start your own legacy


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## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

Between the rate cuts, no tipping and the whole gray area on insurance, I think my uber days are numbered.


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## troubleinrivercity (Jul 27, 2014)

AintWorthIt said:


> Between the rate cuts, no tipping and the whole gray area on insurance, I think my uber days are numbered.


Everyone's are. The last thing Uber wants is for drivers sticking around long enough to start feeling like they own the place. Showing everyone the door sooner or later is probably the only favor they ever do for us.


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Opportunity for sight seeing? What do you mean? Like drive people around and show them the city?


Yes, or tours ( here, wine tours and bbq are a big thing)


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

Tx rides said:


> Search yelp, Twitter, Google for reviews of car services in your area, to get an idea of the number, and level of providers. Do some research on the ground, too, meet hotel staff, find out what the demand is like, and what they think about the existing level of service. If the supply and quality is high, They are probably always looking for good drivers, so explore chauffeur opportunities with existing companies, (use THEIR cars and insurance!!) if supply and quality is tight, start your own legacy


Beautiful! Thank you so much for the excellent suggestions.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

your welcome


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## Robert420 (Aug 30, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Our team has your back 100% and should you ever run into trouble as a result of your use of the Uber app, we will reimburse you for any regulatory citation received as well as provide any necessary legal support.


If uber has there driver back 100% how come they didn't offer any help to the driver whom accidentally killed that girl in San Francisco. First thing uber said was they weren't liability for it cause his app was on but he didn't have any passenger in the car what kind of excuse is that. Secondly, if they had there drivers back 100% how come they don't talk to there driver before they issue inefficient route refund back to a customer whom probably emailed stating they never took this ride when they actually have. Thirdly, of all they can add all this other features such as spotify but still can't add a tipping option for there drivers into there application.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Robert420 said:


> If uber has there driver back 100% how come they didn't offer any help to the driver whom accidentally killed that girl in San Francisco. First thing uber said was they weren't liability for it cause his app was on but he didn't have any passenger in the car what kind of excuse is that. Secondly, if they had there drivers back 100% how come they don't talk to there driver before they issue inefficient route refund back to a customer whom probably emailed stating they never took this ride when they actually have. Thirdly, of all they can add all this other features such as spotify but still can't add a tipping option for there drivers into there application.


 Those are very good questions indeed !!!! There is a forum member named "the happytypist" who might be able to provide more insight to your inquiries.


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## JaxBeachDriver (Nov 27, 2014)

I think it is super easy to switch an app on/off. So if I got into an accident, I could just switch the app on and say I was working. I'm guessing that's why they don't cover drivers who have the app on but are not active on a ride. 

I still don't think it's right if Uber knew this driver was active for a period of time and had just dropped off a passenger. I think there are ways to prove a driver is actively working, even if not responding to a ride (for example: driver just dropped off a passenger 30 seconds before, and was still logged into the app).


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Beautiful! Thank you so much for the excellent suggestions.


You're most welcome! It can be a rewarding job, it should not be a dreadful, nor exceptionally risky one. I like to encourage people who love driving!


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## Tx rides (Sep 15, 2014)

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I think it is super easy to switch an app on/off. So if I got into an accident, I could just switch the app on and say I was working. I'm guessing that's why they don't cover drivers who have the app on but are not active on a ride.
> 
> I still don't think it's right if Uber knew this driver was active for a period of time and had just dropped off a passenger. I think there are ways to prove a driver is actively working, even if not responding to a ride (for example: driver just dropped off a passenger 30 seconds before, and was still logged into the app).


You are right, it is very easy to commit fraud if relying on a status on iPhone app.we have all seen glitches in technology. It would be very easy for you to say you were still with a passenger, and it would be easy for Uber to say no they were not logged on. Insurance companies know this, it is why they do not want a part on, part off policy. It's tooo costly to investigate and argue.

Add on: let's face it: an "honor system" is not an option here


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

I think Seinfeld and co used "The honor system" for some sort of event.


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