# Lyft: net loss on a very long trip



## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Here's another *****fest about poor Lyft pay. The short story is that Lyft wanted me to pay $2.86/hr for a 5½ hour drive.

Here's the long story.

On Christmas night, I accepted a ride for a passenger at the train station in St Paul. I picked up the passenger and his wife and he says he's going to Marshall, Minnesota which is a little under 3 hours away, way down in the southwest corner of the state. I'm happy about the trip and I have the energy for it - I'm assuming it's going to pay about $25-$30/hr as it has on past long trips, including the inevitable deadhead return trip to Minneapolis as well as a probable hotel stay - about $60 and about $20 for gas.

I asked the passenger what he was being charged for the trip - $127 - that's it! My cut of most trips is typically 50% (sometimes as low as 30%, down from a constant 85% 3 years ago), but I can't tell anymore because Lyft no longer tells drivers what the passenger is being charged. So, without any expenses, my take is $64 or about $11.43/hr! Now add in hotel and gas and my take is about NEGATIVE $16 - I'm paying $2.86/hr to work for Lyft! And that's not even including all the costs of the car.

I did the math in my head as I loaded the passengers' luggage into the car. I looked at them and said "There's no way I'm going to make any money at all on this trip, so I can't take you. I'm sorry. I'll cancel the ride." They were PISSED. I'm just glad they didn't pull anything like "You know, you're a really poor representative for Lyft" - I would have said some risky stuff to them. But that's the thing - I don't represent Lyft any more - it's not reasonable.

What the hell is wrong with Uber and Lyft that they think they can get away with this shit?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

bobbbobbobb said:


> Here's another gripefest about poor Lyft pay. The short story is that Lyft wanted me to pay $2.86/hr for a 5½ hour drive.
> 
> Here's the long story.
> 
> ...


Glad you told them you CAN'T AFFORD TO TAKE THEM !

LYFT NEEDS TO GET A CLUE!


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

There's two things that are bothering me here: 

Do you have any idea what you are actually paid? The is a rate card. You get a specified amount for time and mileage. You do not get a percentage of the fare. 

With that said, it's hard to imagine how you can possibly make money if you are driving back empty and paying for a motel. Do you have any clue as to what it costs you to operate your vehicle per mile?


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

What's with the probing questions about what I know? I told you the situation. What it costs to operate my car is lost $ piled on top of what I posted. If I could operate the Prius for $0, I still would have lost money. It's a 2015 Prius and yes, I know what it costs to operate.

What I'm actually paid? No, we don't know what we're paid for the trip unless we ask the passenger or if we complete the trip. The Lyft dashboard certainly doesn't tell you anymore.


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## BeansnRice (Aug 13, 2016)

Did you want this ride or not?

Seems like you were familiar with the trip and it’s potential pay out.

What changed ?


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

You didn't read. I said I asked the passenger what he's paying for the trip. I had not taken a trip to that town before. 3 hour rides are extremely rare.


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

I charge an upfront gratuity of 15-20% for out of town trips. If they disagree I pass them off. The dead miles home are not worth it.

I'm as kind as I can be about it. I've had one young lady decline from Houston to Austin. I suggested, "the next driver might be more in your price range." Because of the infrequency of multi hour trips, Uber doesn't have a proper pay structure setup for them.

6 years, 4k rides as a part timer. I was burned on a 4 hour trip from Texas to Louisiana. Never again.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

bobbbobbobb said:


> What's with the probing questions about what I know? I told you the situation. What it costs to operate my car is lost $ piled on top of what I posted. If I could operate the Prius for $0, I still would have lost money. It's a 2015 Prius and yes, I know what it costs to operate.
> 
> What I'm actually paid? No, we don't know what we're paid for the trip unless we ask the passenger or if we complete the trip. The Lyft dashboard certainly doesn't tell you anymore.


The probing questions are because it's clear that you have no idea what you are doing. For sure, you have no idea how you are paid. The one thing you got right is that it's a money loser. Here's the rate card they use to determine your pay for a trip, it has nothing to do with what the passengers pay.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

JaredJ said:


> I charge an upfront gratuity of 15-20% for out of town trips. If they disagree I pass them off. The dead miles home are not worth it.
> 
> I'm as kind as I can be about it. I've had one young lady decline from Houston to Austin. I suggested, "the next driver might be more in your price range." Because of the infrequency of multi hour trips, Uber doesn't have a proper pay structure setup for them.
> 
> 6 years, 4k rides as a part timer. I was burned on a 4 hour trip from Texas to Louisiana. Never again.


I'm saying that the pay for long trips like this has dropped precipitously in recent months. I've done trips that were about 2 hours one way and a deadhead return trip and I made a reasonable amount of money, about $25 to $27 an hour without tip. The difference with this particular trip is that even without a hotel stay, my earnings would have been only about $10 an hour. Add the cost of a hotel and I lost money.


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

JaredJ said:


> I charge an upfront gratuity of 15-20% for out of town trips. If they disagree I pass them off. The dead miles home are not worth it.
> 
> I'm as kind as I can be about it. I've had one young lady decline from Houston to Austin. I suggested, "the next driver might be more in your price range." Because of the infrequency of multi hour trips, Uber doesn't have a proper pay structure setup for them.
> 
> 6 years, 4k rides as a part timer. I was burned on a 4 hour trip from Texas to Louisiana. Never again.


I turned down a trip to CT on Xmas eve at 10am, 3 1/2 hr each way if nothin went wrong. That was just a shitty ride into potentially monster traffic.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> The probing questions are because it's clear that you have no idea what you are doing. For sure, you have no idea how you are paid. The one thing you got right is that it's a money loser. Here's the rate card they use to determine your pay for a trip, it has nothing to do with what the passengers pay.


I get it. I know the rates. I'm saying that the pay for a trip like this has dropped precipitously in the last few months. I've done 2 hour trips one way with a deadhead trip back and still earned $25 to $27 an hour for the entire 2-way trip. This particular trip, even without a hotel stay, I would only ever learn something like $10 an hour. Add the cost of the hotel and I'm actually losing money. Compensation has changed drastically in the last few months. In addition, Lyft doesn't account for additional costs as they should - that probably has always been the case. This is the first trip where I would not have been able to immediately drive back to my home area.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Most have learned the hard way to decline or cancel long trips...unless bored. I make 12 after gas here, before miles.
Period


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

wallae said:


> Most have learned the hard way to decline or cancel long trips...unless bored.
> Period


It wasn't like this 2 years ago. I would have earned $25 to $27 an hour including the deadhead return drive. however, I don't think lift would ever have compensated for something like a hotel stay. NOW, I would agree with you - long trips don't pay. Which is exactly what I found out when I asked the passenger what they were going to pay for the trip.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

bobbbobbobb said:


> I get it. I know the rates. I'm saying that the pay for a trip like this has dropped precipitously in the last few months. I've done 2 hour trips one way with a deadhead trip back and still earned $25 to $27 an hour for the entire 2-way trip. This particular trip, even without a hotel stay, I would only ever learn something like $10 an hour. Add the cost of the hotel and I'm actually losing money. Compensation has changed drastically in the last few months. In addition, Lyft doesn't account for additional costs as they should - that probably has always been the case. This is the first trip where I would not have been able to immediately drive back to my home area.


If they dropped your pay to .35 a mile you should delete it....


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> If they dropped your pay to .35 a mile you should delete it....


Delete what? And how do you justify that?


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

bobbbobbobb said:


> It wasn't like this 2 years ago. I would have earned $25 to $27 an hour including the deadhead return drive. however, I don't think lift would ever have compensated for something like a hotel stay. NOW, I would agree with you - long trips don't pay. Which is exactly what I found out when I asked the passenger what they were going to pay for the trip.
> 
> 
> Where do you get off saying that? In exactly what way was I an idiot? I turned down the trip. These trips used to pay reasonably oh, about two years ago, maybe even a year ago. Jesus Christ, where you get that kind of anger when you clearly haven't even read what I wrote?


They are never going to pay for a hotel or even the thought of not driving back kinda qualifies you as some kinda idiot
If you were bumbling is questionable



bobbbobbobb said:


> Delete what? And how do you justify that?


They cut your freaking pay by 1/3 
and you are still doing it man


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Most learn the hard way you are totally screwed on long trips if you have to dead mile back. I was burned on the promise of a "big tip" driving a pax from NY to Massachusetts. Thought a tip and a DF would make the trip ok, and neither worked out. As a result, I ask for a 25% UPFRONT tip on the fare. I use a square reader so no excuse about not having cash.

With that, this trip would have paid $32 return fee tip + $64 = $96. That STILL is horrible for 6 hours of driving. Total loser of a trip, good for you for turning it down. Tell the pax to take a bus.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> They are never going to pay for a hotel or even the thought of not driving back kinda qualifies you as some kinda idiot
> If you were bumbling is questionable


I just said I know they would not pay for a hotel. AS I WROTE IN THE POST, I turned down the trip because I would have lost money, even if I didn't have the hotel cost. This trip would have been a money maker a year ago (if a hotel stay was not required). That's the point you weird critics keep missing.



25rides7daysaweek said:


> They are never going to pay for a hotel or even the thought of not driving back kinda qualifies you as some kinda idiot
> If you were bumbling is questionable
> 
> 
> ...


Now THAT'S a valid criticism. When did you last drive Uber or Lyft? And if you're not driving, why are you hanging out here shitting on drivers for complaining?



Seamus said:


> Most learn the hard way you are totally screwed on long trips if you have to dead mile back. I was burned on the promise of a "big tip" driving a pax from NY to Massachusetts. Thought a tip and a DF would make the trip ok, and neither worked out. As a result, I ask for a 25% UPFRONT tip on the fare. I use a square reader so no excuse about not having cash.
> 
> With that, this trip would have paid $32 return fee tip + $64 = $96. That STILL is horrible for 6 hours of driving. Total loser of a trip, good for you for turning it down. Tell the pax to take a bus.


Thanks. You're the first respondent here that has made any sense and read what I wrote. And I agree $16/hr before expenses is terrible pay. I'll drive if I can make $24 an hour on average. It's getting close to impossible to make that much in Minneapolis/St. Paul.


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## Funky Monkey (Jul 11, 2016)

I've never gotten much specific feedback from other drivers but it seems like U & L are paying around $0.90. If you drive 100 miles, you make $90. You'll probably have to deadhead back, depending on your vehicle, I'd ask for another $0.50 per mile. 

If they're not comfortable with it, encourage them politely to wait for another driver (who invariably has been driving a few days or weeks and will take them). There's an old page on Uber that said it was okay for us to do this. Try to find and print out that page


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Funky Monkey said:


> I've never gotten much specific feedback from other drivers but it seems like U & L are paying around $0.90. If you drive 100 miles, you make $90. You'll probably have to deadhead back, depending on your vehicle, I'd ask for another $0.50 per mile.
> 
> If they're not comfortable with it, encourage them politely to wait for another driver (who invariably has been driving a few days or weeks and will take them). There's an old page on Uber that said it was okay for us to do this. Try to find and print out that page


Uber and Lyft haven't paid anywhere close to 90 cents per mile in a long time. I've never asked for more money from the passenger up front. I just turn down the ride if it's not worthwhile.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

bobbbobbobb said:


> I just said I know they would not pay for a hotel. AS I WROTE IN THE POST, I turned down the trip because I would have lost money, even if I didn't have the hotel cost. This trip would have been a money maker a year ago (if a hotel stay was not required). That's the point you weird critics keep missing.
> 
> 
> Now THAT'S a valid criticism. When did you last drive Uber or Lyft? And if you're not driving, why are you hanging out here shitting on drivers for [qoute]
> ...


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

I can't drive for Uber right now. I agree that Uber's pay was significantly better than Lyft's pay when I was able to drive for Uber a few months ago. I think my only choice is to stop driving, period.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

Because drivers who don't understand their expenses are willing to do it. That's how they can get away with it.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

MadTownUberD said:


> Because drivers who don't understand their expenses are willing to do it. That's how they can get away with it.


I agree. I'm highlighting how especially egregious Lyft's behavior is on trips like this one.


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## AlexCom (May 4, 2017)

Every time I see a 45+ on lyft I head towards that address keeping my uber on, a while ago you almost constantly would have that same ping coming on uber, not anymore, there's plenty of lyft lunatics accepting those 45+ crap


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## Paladin220 (Jun 2, 2017)

It's a 3-hour trip, 6-hour roundtrip...why do you keep harping about a damn hotel stay? You can't drive 6 hours without taking a nap?


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Paladin220 said:


> It's a 3-hour trip, 6-hour roundtrip...why do you keep harping about a damn hotel stay? You can't drive 6 hours without taking a nap?


The trip would have started at midnight, after about 5 hours of driving, which began after a long day of family Christmas stuff. I would have been fine for the drive to the destination, but not for the drive back without sleep. A nap in the car isn't sleep.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

bobbbobbobb said:


> What's with the probing questions about what I know? I told you the situation. What it costs to operate my car is lost $ piled on top of what I posted. If I could operate the Prius for $0, I still would have lost money. It's a 2015 Prius and yes, I know what it costs to operate.
> 
> What I'm actually paid? No, we don't know what we're paid for the trip unless we ask the passenger or if we complete the trip. The Lyft dashboard certainly doesn't tell you anymore.


You are paid exact miles and minutes based on your rate card. You can do a quick calculation as to what you'll be paid as soon as you know the trip details. For all you know the rider was paying a discounted fare because of credits or promos.

And, am I the only one thinking that if you need a hotel room after a 3-hour drive that this gig probably isn't for you?


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## Sold My Soul For Stars (Dec 26, 2017)

Have you actually calculated out the miles and time to see what you would have been paid? To me, it sounds like that's the one thing you haven't done. Yet that's the only way to really know. What the passenger is paying is completely irrelevant to what you get paid. There's an agreement in place that they have to honor. Obviously I don't know your pay rate but I do know here a two-hour ride mountains pays about $90 and you're going an hour further. I don't disagree with you not taking the trip but your calculations definitely seem to be off


bobbbobbobb said:


> It wasn't like this 2 years ago. I would have earned $25 to $27 an hour including the deadhead return drive


I know our pay has been cut significantly over the years but where are you getting you would have made 25 to 27 an hour including the deadhead back? You're saying you would have made $64 this time. That's a 57% pay decrease. Unless you went from driving your own car to a Lyft rental and you live in one of the states where they now pay you to Drive to the customer, you didn't get a 57% pay cut.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Sold My Soul For Stars said:


> Have you actually calculated out the miles and time to see what you would have been paid? To me, it sounds like that's the one thing you haven't done. Yet that's the only way to really know. What the passenger is paying is completely irrelevant to what you get paid. There's an agreement in place that they have to honor. Obviously I don't know your pay rate but I do know here a two-hour ride mountains pays about $90 and you're going an hour further. I don't disagree with you not taking the trip but your calculations definitely seem to be off
> 
> I know our pay has been cut significantly over the years but where are you getting you would have made 25 to 27 an hour including the deadhead back? You're saying you would have made $64 this time. That's a 57% pay decrease. Unless you went from driving your own car to a Lyft rental and you live in one of the states where they now pay you to Drive to the customer, you didn't get a 57% pay cut.


Yes, I'm saying exactly that. For this kind of trip, the pay is something on the order of 50% less compared to a year or two ago.



CTK said:


> You are paid exact miles and minutes based on your rate card. You can do a quick calculation as to what you'll be paid as soon as you know the trip details. For all you know the rider was paying a discounted fare because of credits or promos.
> 
> And, am I the only one thinking that if you need a hotel room after a 3-hour drive that this gig probably isn't for you?


The trip would have started at midnight after I had already been driving for 5 hours, and that after a long day of Christmas celebration. And yes, I understand there's a rate card and I know what is on it. But of course I couldn't make any use of the rate card until I knew the details of the trip, which I didn't know until I arrived at the pickup point. And the rate card says nothing at all about bonuses, which you don't know about until the ride is completed. So I didn't know what I was going to earn on the trip until I asked the passenger what he's paying.


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## Sold My Soul For Stars (Dec 26, 2017)

Funky Monkey said:


> I've never gotten much specific feedback from other drivers but it seems like U & L are paying around $0.90. If you drive 100 miles, you make $9


Where are you driving that you make $0.90 a mile on Uber X?


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## Sold My Soul For Stars (Dec 26, 2017)

bobbbobbobb said:


> Yes, I'm saying exactly that. For this kind of trip, the pay is something on the order of 50% less compared to a year or two ago.


What was your pay rate a year or two ago and what is your pay rate now?

Your pay rate would have to have been consistent with what I mentioned before. You drove in your private vehicle at $0.84 a mile and now you're in a Lyft rental AND being in a state where they pay you to drive to the passenger at $0.35/mi, for your numbers to makes sense. However at these numbers you shouldn't even have questioned how much they were paying because either way this trip was going to be unprofitable. These numbers however don't support your 25 to $27 an hour round trip that you claimed you would have made a couple years ago&#129335;&#127996;


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## Castaneda7189 (Apr 14, 2017)

bobbbobbobb said:


> Here's another gripefest about poor Lyft pay. The short story is that Lyft wanted me to pay $2.86/hr for a 5½ hour drive.
> 
> Here's the long story.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure about your area, but Lyft has slashed per mile prices in almost every market. Had you not asked the people what they were being charged you would have never known...this is worrisome. I say this because you, a vet driver, is unaware of the rates in your market. Imagine how much more unaware those who just started in the past few weeks are. No wonder Lyft is turning a profit at the expense of the driver. It's got people like you Bob who are unaware, misinformed, and ultimately in the bag so can continue their crony capitalism.

for a 167 mile trip in my area, 3 hour drive I don't have to ask the pax how much they are getting charge. I immediately know how much I'm going to make by simple maths. Unless I catch them on a surge. 0.35cent/mile and 0.13cent/minute I could easily have told you that I would get paid around$86. That's 1 tank of gas for my car at 37 per fill up. 330 mile round trip. More than 6 hours of driving. For Uber the trip would be ~$113. Still not worth it.I don't even have to calculate the per hour rate at 50 bucks to know that I am losing big time.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Castaneda7189 said:


> I'm not sure about your area, but Lyft has slashed per mile prices in almost every market. Had you not asked the people what they were being charged you would have never known...this is worrisome. I say this because you, a vet driver, is unaware of the rates in your market. Imagine how much more unaware those who just started in the past few weeks are. No wonder Lyft is turning a profit at the expense of the driver. It's got people like you Bob who are unaware, misinformed, and ultimately in the bag so can continue their crony capitalism.
> 
> for a 167 mile trip in my area, 3 hour drive I don't have to ask the pax how much they are getting charge. I immediately know how much I'm going to make by simple maths. Unless I catch them on a surge. 0.35cent/mile and 0.13cent/minute I could easily have told you that I would get paid around$86. That's 1 tank of gas for my car at 37 per fill up. 330 mile round trip. More than 6 hours of driving. For Uber the trip would be ~$113. Still not worth it.I don't even have to calculate the per hour rate at 50 bucks to know that I am losing big time.


"unless I catch them on a surge". Yep, that's why I asked the passenger what he'll pay, so that I'd have a good idea what I would earn! I'm not unaware. I'm not ignorant. I'm not weak-minded. I know per-mile rates have dropped a lot.



Sold My Soul For Stars said:


> What was your pay rate a year or two ago and what is your pay rate now?


My pay rate is about 60% what it was a couple years ago. I asked the passenger what he would pay because I didn't know what my earnings might be, since I had no idea what bonus might be until the ride is completed. That's why I asked the passenger - to find out what I might earn.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Sold My Soul For Stars said:


> Where are you driving that you make $0.90 a mile on Uber X?


Yeah, I've been driving for 3 years and the per-mile rate as always been much lower than that.


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## Castaneda7189 (Apr 14, 2017)

bobbbobbobb said:


> "unless I catch them on a surge". Yep, that's why I asked the passenger what he'll pay, so that I'd have a good idea what I would earn! I'm not unaware. I'm not ignorant. I'm not weak-minded. I know per-mile rates have dropped a lot.
> 
> 
> My pay rate is about 60% what it was a couple years ago. I asked the passenger what he would pay because I didn't know what my earnings might be, since I had no idea what bonus might be until the ride is completed. That's why I asked the passenger - to find out what I might earn.


That's not true bob. You didn't catch them on a surge. Looking up rates for St. Paul Minnesota to Marshall Minnesota it's quoting me $128. Unless there's a surge going on right now in St. Paul which I highly doubt. Listen, you are unaware. You are clueless. Don't take that as an insult. Take it as a lesson learned. Hell, I've had plenty of those. Sometimes the older you get, the more stubborn you are which I can see from your comments. I'm not against you, I'm against Lyft. But with the ant mentality...there's no winning. There's a guy in my market who is okay with logging in thousands of miles in his car and making only pennies on the dollar for those miles. But he's ok with it because get this "money to operate my vehicle is not important." You didn't have to ask how much you're getting paid. You should have known. Don't compare what you would have earned a year ago to what you are making now. Drivers all over are seeing a yearly decrease in pay every year of at least 30%. Ant on...


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Castaneda7189 said:


> That's not true bob. You didn't catch them on a surge. Looking up rates for St. Paul Minnesota to Marshall Minnesota it's quoting me $128. Unless there's a surge going on right now in St. Paul which I highly doubt. Listen, you are unaware. You are clueless. Don't take that as an insult. Take it as a lesson learned. Hell, I've had plenty of those. Sometimes the older you get, the more stubborn you are which I can see from your comments. I'm not against you, I'm against Lyft. But with the ant mentality...there's no winning. There's a guy in my market who is okay with logging in thousands of miles in his car and making only pennies on the dollar for those miles. But he's ok with it because get this "money to operate my vehicle is not important." You didn't have to ask how much you're getting paid. You should have known. Don't compare what you would have earned a year ago to what you are making now. Drivers all over are seeing a yearly decrease in pay every year of at least 30%.


Yes! But I didn't have a clue about what I'd earn until I ****ing asked the passenger. I didn't know if there'd be a bonus until I ****ing arrived at the pickup point and asked the ****ing passenger. And yes, I know there has been a decrease in pay every year. Until recently, it's been tolerable, but in 2019 it has become much more likely for a driver to actually lose money.



Sold My Soul For Stars said:


> Have you actually calculated out the miles and time to see what you would have been paid? To me, it sounds like that's the one thing you haven't done. Yet that's the only way to really know. What the passenger is paying is completely irrelevant to what you get paid. There's an agreement in place that they have to honor. Obviously I don't know your pay rate but I do know here a two-hour ride mountains pays about $90 and you're going an hour further. I don't disagree with you not taking the trip but your calculations definitely seem to be off
> 
> I know our pay has been cut significantly over the years but where are you getting you would have made 25 to 27 an hour including the deadhead back? You're saying you would have made $64 this time. That's a 57% pay decrease. Unless you went from driving your own car to a Lyft rental and you live in one of the states where they now pay you to Drive to the customer, you didn't get a 57% pay cut.


No, you don't know what you'll be paid for the trip just by knowing the distance. finding out from the passenger what he pays gives you some kind of clue of what the bonus will be.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

bobbbobbobb said:


> Yes, I'm saying exactly that. For this kind of trip, the pay is something on the order of 50% less compared to a year or two ago.
> 
> 
> The trip would have started at midnight after I had already been driving for 5 hours, and that after a long day of Christmas celebration. And yes, I understand there's a rate card and I know what is on it. But of course I couldn't make any use of the rate card until I knew the details of the trip, which I didn't know until I arrived at the pickup point. And the rate card says nothing at all about bonuses, which you don't know about until the ride is completed. So I didn't know what I was going to earn on the trip until I asked the passenger what he's paying.


Bonuses after the trip?

Multiple people have explained to you why the rider's pay is irrelevant, and you said you understood. Yet here you are still proclaiming that the rider's fare is the only way you'd know your pay.

You're saying you refused a long money losing trip, I have no problem with that and think you did the right thing. I think, however, that you have no clue how this whole thing works and that going forward it would really be a benefit to you to educate yourself.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> The probing questions are because it's clear that you have no idea what you are doing. For sure, you have no idea how you are paid. The one thing you got right is that it's a money loser. Here's the rate card they use to determine your pay for a trip, it has nothing to do with what the passengers pay.


Is this the rate for St Paul?


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

CTK said:


> Bonuses after the trip?
> 
> Multiple people have explained to you why the rider's pay is irrelevant, and you said you understood. Yet here you are still proclaiming that the rider's fare is the only way you'd know your pay.
> 
> You're saying you refused a long money losing trip, I have no problem with that and think you did the right thing. I think, however, that you have no clue how this whole thing works and that going forward it would really be a benefit to you to educate yourself.


When does a driver know what bonus he's going to get, other than the instance where he drives into the pink bonus area prior to accepting a ride? Lyft pays bonuses without telling the driver ahead of time what bonus he's going to get. That's why I'm asking the passenger what he's told he's going to pay is a very bit if information. Unless lift always pays the bonuses out of their own pocket instead of making the passenger pay it, which I don't think they do.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Here's the rate card they use to determine your pay for a trip,


Is that rate card for Minnesota (Original Poster'smarket) or North Carolina (quoted poster's market)?

If we calculate using that rate card, based on a figure of one hundred sixty four miles and three hours, the payoff to the driver is ninety four dollars and change. that makes the average for the trip somewhat under sixteen dollars the hour. This assumes no motel stay.

BOTTOM LINE: I would not do it, unless it were really slow.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Is that rate card for Minnesota (Original Poster'smarket) or North Carolina (quoted poster's market)?
> 
> If we calculate using that rate card, based on a figure of one hundred sixty four miles and three hours, the payoff to the driver is ninety four dollars and change. that makes the average for the trip somewhat under sixteen dollars the hour. This assumes no motel stay.
> 
> BOTTOM LINE: I would not do it, unless it were really slow.


I didn't do it. And the rate card is only part of the story. The driver usually doesn't know anything about what bonus he will get until the trip is completed. But what the passenger is told he's going to pay is something of an indicator. That's the reason for asking the passenger.


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

Funky Monkey said:


> There's an old page on Uber that said it was okay for us to do this. Try to find and print out that page


Here is that page. I call it my return trip surcharge.

https://help.uber.com/riders/articl...-?nodeId=776390a5-b197-412a-98c4-011c85799dc1


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## GregJinAZ (Feb 7, 2017)

bobbbobbobb said:


> You didn't read. I said I asked the passenger what he's paying for the trip. I had not taken a trip to that town before. 3 hour rides are extremely rare.


 Youre arguing with a shill. Just a heads up.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

bobbbobbobb said:


> When does a driver know what bonus he's going to get, other than the instance where he drives into the pink bonus area prior to accepting a ride? Lyft pays bonuses without telling the driver ahead of time what bonus he's going to get. That's why I'm asking the passenger what he's told he's going to pay is a very bit if information. Unless lift always pays the bonuses out of their own pocket instead of making the passenger pay it, which I don't think they do.


Never once, in over four years, did I get a surprise bonus from Lyft after the ride was over. Again, you're going back to trying to justify how knowing the riders fare is what allows you to calculate your pay. It just isn't, and many of us have explained why. Not understanding here why you're refusing to accept reality.


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## Paladin220 (Jun 2, 2017)

CTK said:


> Never once, in over four years, did I get a surprise bonus from Lyft after the ride was over. Again, you're going back to trying to justify how knowing the riders fare is what allows you to calculate your pay. It just isn't, and many of us have explained why. Not understanding here why you're refusing to accept reality.


This exactly


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## Funky Monkey (Jul 11, 2016)

CTK said:


> Never once, in over four years, did I get a surprise bonus from Lyft after the ride was over. Again, you're going back to trying to justify how knowing the riders fare is what allows you to calculate your pay. It just isn't, and many of us have explained why. Not understanding here why you're refusing to accept reality.


Then why didn't you turn the ride down: blah, blah, blah? I feel like a moron for trying to help. Sometimes you're just dissatisfied and no one can save you. Just ask the FM!


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

bobbbobbobb said:


> I didn't do it.


I got that part of it.



bobbbobbobb said:


> And the rate card is only part of the story.


I would not do it based on the rate card alone. If you want to add more factors, that is only going to give me more reasons not to do it.



bobbbobbobb said:


> The driver usually doesn't know anything about what bonus he will get until the trip is completed.


..................or even IF he will get one. That applies, at least, to my market. I am not sure about yours, of course.



bobbbobbobb said:


> That's the reason for asking the passenger.


I understand why you asked the passenger. Nothing that I have posted is necessarily disagreeing, arguing with or criticising your actions (or lack thereof). I would not have done the trip, either. I might have declined it for different reasons, but still, I would not have done it.

It is too bad that your passengers did not take the hint and offer to add something to it in cash . "We will do it in-application" is a non-starter, as most who make such a statement never make good on it This can be dangerous territory on which to tread should the passenger offer to do it, make good on it then complain to Lyft. Your requesting more money is not a requirement for their complaining. They can do all of the talking and all that you need do is agree to what they say. You balk at the trip. They offer you ___________ extra in cash. You agree. You do the job. Keep in mind that you have made no mention of extra funds, cash or anything, They said all of it and every thing. All that you did was decline to transport (unlike the cab business, in TNC work you face no regulatory consequences for declining to transport) then agree to transport once they asked you to re-consider and gave you reasons to re-consider. After a while, or, even after a day or two, you log on to your Lyft account and you see a message "ACCOUNT NEEDS ATTENTION" or whatever Lyft does.

You check your e-Mail and there is a complaint that you demanded cash or additional funds. Now, you are facing de-activation.

Ask me how I know that passengers will do this, or something similar.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I got that part of it.
> 
> I would not do it based on the rate card alone. If you want to add more factors, that is only going to give me more reasons not to do it.
> 
> ...


Yeah, there are many ways for passengers to get pissed and then turn vindictive. One of the many risks of loss of income doing this kind of work. I know my days are numbered.



CTK said:


> Never once, in over four years, did I get a surprise bonus from Lyft after the ride was over. Again, you're going back to trying to justify how knowing the riders fare is what allows you to calculate your pay. It just isn't, and many of us have explained why. Not understanding here why you're refusing to accept reality.


I get a bonus or two most days without being notified beforehand.


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## BeansnRice (Aug 13, 2016)

bobbbobbobb said:


> You didn't read. I said I asked the passenger what he's paying for the trip. I had not taken a trip to that town before. 3 hour rides are extremely rare.


Kinda weird. My reply to your original post only showed a few sentences not what appears now.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

JaredJ said:


> I charge an upfront gratuity of 15-20% for out of town trips. If they disagree I pass them off. The dead miles home are not worth it.
> 
> I'm as kind as I can be about it. I've had one young lady decline from Houston to Austin. I suggested, "the next driver might be more in your price range." Because of the infrequency of multi hour trips, Uber doesn't have a proper pay structure setup for them.
> 
> 6 years, 4k rides as a part timer. I was burned on a 4 hour trip from Texas to Louisiana. Never again.


Everyone gets burned on a long 3h+ trip and then never again does them. The problem is the deadhead miles back and the wear to vehicle.

Sadly, someone came along and took the OPs original group.

Also, on the long trips, the driver typically gets a larger% of the fare. I suspect the OP is a newish driver who had a knee jerk reaction to that particular trip. If he was happy from the pay from that trip before, his pay wouldn't have changed.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Everyone gets burned on a long 3h+ trip and then never again does them. The problem is the deadhead miles back and the wear to vehicle.
> 
> Sadly, someone came along and took the OPs original group.
> 
> Also, on the long trips, the driver typically gets a larger% of the fare. I suspect the OP is a newish driver who had a knee jerk reaction to that particular trip. If he was happy from the pay from that trip before, his pay wouldn't have changed.


The reaction was because I would actually lose money on that trip if I paid for a hotel stay. If I didn't pay for a hotel stay, my pay would have been less than $16 per hour. The last time I did a trip like that (about 1 year ago), I earned $25 per hour. My emotion about it centered around the fact that Lyft hands out a ride at midnight and paid so little without taking into account the expenses for that particular trip. Why would Lyft expect a driver to drive from midnight to 6 a.m.? It's unreasonable.

I've been an Uber and Lyft driver for 3+ years. I've done about 15,000 trips. I've known all along the driver pay was going down. This is the very first time I've been faced with a loss of money even before car expenses are considered. This is new. This past year, Lyft has drastically reduced its per mile rate to drivers in the Minneapolis region AND has drastically reduced peak time payment to drivers. The new thing is that it's easy for a driver to actually lose money on a trip, not just earn and embarrassingly low amount.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

bobbbobbobb said:


> The reaction was because I would actually lose money on that trip if I paid for a hotel stay. If I didn't pay for a hotel stay, my pay would have been less than $16 per hour. The last time I did a trip like that (about 1 year ago), I earned $25 per hour. My emotion about it centered around the fact that Lyft hands out a ride at midnight and paid so little without taking into account the expenses for that particular trip. Why would Lyft expect a driver to drive from midnight to 6 a.m.? It's unreasonable.
> 
> I've been an Uber and Lyft driver for 3+ years. I've done about 15,000 trips. I've known all along the driver pay was going down. This is the very first time I've been faced with a loss of money even before car expenses are considered. This is new. This past year, Lyft has drastically reduced its per mile rate to drivers in the Minneapolis region AND has drastically reduced peak time payment to drivers. The new thing is that it's easy for a driver to actually lose money on a trip, not just earn and embarrassingly low amount.


I have diamond, so I would have seen the length of the trip, considered the hour and declined.

You knew it was a 45+ minute trip so you probably just should have declined. Or before loading asked for a premium, said, "Its midnight, I need extra money to drive you out of town." After loading up, they have every right to be upset.

I think you were right to decline, but you handled the situation wrong with the pax. Them telling you how much they were paying shouldn't have influenced your decision making. In your original post you said your decision was based on the fact that you would get half what the pax payed, and thats not the case. Pay is based on miles and time, not what the pax pays. There are cases where the pax pays less than what the driver earns on long trips.

Learn from the experience.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

OldBay said:


> I have diamond, so I would have seen the length of the trip, considered the hour and declined.
> 
> You knew it was a 45+ minute trip so you probably just should have declined. Or before loading asked for a premium, said, "Its midnight, I need extra money to drive you out of town." After loading up, they have every right to be upset.
> 
> I think you were right to decline, but you handled the situation wrong with the pax.


I disagree I handled it wrong. Even if I ask the passenger for extra money up front and the passenger agreed to pay, the passenger still might have been pissed off and complained. Better to avoid the whole situation and reject the ride. And why reject all rides over 45 minutes? Busy-time bonuses happen and you can't tell you're getting most bonuses until the ride is over.

What the passenger is told he's going to pay is something of an indicator of the bonus I'll get. It's the only way I'll get an idea what the bonus will be. I don't get why I have to keep explaining this over and over again.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

bobbbobbobb said:


> I disagree I handled it wrong. Even if I ask the passenger for extra money up front and the passenger agreed to pay, the passenger still might have been pissed off and complained. Better to avoid the whole situation and reject the ride. And why reject all rides over 45 minutes? Busy-time bonuses happen and you can't tell you're getting most bonuses until the ride is over.
> 
> What the passenger is told he's going to pay is something of an indicator of the bonus I'll get. It's the only way I'll get an idea what the bonus will be. I don't get why I have to keep explaining this over and over again.


Dude, you loaded luggage at midnight on a 45+ before knowing the destination.

Rookie mistake.

Proper way to handle: Roll down window, confirm destination, negotiate cash up front. If negotiating a tip makes you afraid of a 1*, you are in the wrong line of work.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

OldBay said:


> , "Its midnight, I need extra money to drive you out of town." After loading up, they have every right to be upset.


If you say that to a customer, the odds are pretty good that he will complain, even if he does not seem to balk at giving you the additional funds. If he does complain, you are just about guaranteed de-activation.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Another Uber Driver said:


> If you say that to a customer, the odds are pretty good that he will complain, even if he does not seem to balk at giving you the additional funds. If he does complain, you are just about guaranteed de-activation.


If he says "no", you cancel and list reason "could not find passenger". Uber/Lyft will have no basis to deactivate.

What is this rookie hour?

(I forget that the mods are part time drivers.. if they were FT they wouldnt have time to moderate a forum.)


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

OldBay said:


> What is this rookie hour?


If he says "yes" and pays you, then complains, you face almost certain de-activation.

If you cancel "could not find.........." or "no show" and the customer complains, if you do not think that Gr*yft* will not at least contact you, _you ain't been payin' no attention...................._ Further, if the customer states that he did, in fact, talk to you, if you do not think that Gr*yft* is going to believe the customer over you, again, _you ain't been paying' no attention_.

Rookie? I am _*hardly*_ a rookie, Sir, as anyone familiar with me will be able to tell you.


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## Soldiering (Jan 21, 2019)

bobbbobbobb said:


> What's with the probing questions about what I know? I told you the situation. What it costs to operate my car is lost $ piled on top of what I posted. If I could operate the Prius for $0, I still would have lost money. It's a 2015 Prius and yes, I know what it costs to operate.
> 
> What I'm actually paid? No, we don't know what we're paid for the trip unless we ask the passenger or if we complete the trip. The Lyft dashboard certainly doesn't tell you anymore.


Bro install the pax app on your phone. I got two very similar trips like that here in AZ ON XMAS. I tried to negotiate a larger fare with the pax an he refused an got upset, at that point I put him out. I don't know who is more stupid Gryft or the pax for thinking Im gonna get taken advantage of.

Remember this is your biz an Gryft an Guber are not your partners.


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## jlong105 (Sep 15, 2017)

Sold My Soul For Stars said:


> Where are you driving that you make $0.90 a mile on Uber X?


$.60 a mile at 20 mph with $.10 a minute means $.90 a mile. Sounds like a lot of city driving


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Dude, you loaded luggage at midnight on a 45+ before knowing the destination.
> 
> Rookie mistake.
> 
> Proper way to handle: Roll down window, confirm destination, negotiate cash up front. If negotiating a tip makes you afraid of a 1*, you are in the wrong line of work.


Not a rookie, not a mistake. Playing the odds because there are so many risks of losing income. Earning 3% more overall by exercising a policy of asking for more money on 1% of my rides and assuming the risk is foolish. I make my tips by being kind.



jlong105 said:


> $.60 a mile at 20 mph with $.10 a minute means $.90 a mile. Sounds like a lot of city driving


I agree. Not worthwhile.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

bobbbobbobb said:


> Not a rookie, not a mistake. Playing the odds because there are so many risks of losing income. Earning 3% more overall by exercising policy of asking for more money on 1% of my rides and assuming the risk is foolish. I make my tips by being kind.


Your story has morphed since the original post.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Your story has morphed since the original post.


From what to what?


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

bobbbobbobb said:


> Here's another @@@@@fest about poor Lyft pay. The short story is that Lyft wanted me to pay $2.86/hr for a 5½ hour drive.
> 
> Here's the long story.
> 
> ...


Nice and with Lyft you can cancel and they cannot down rate in retaliation. I would have done the same thing to!!!


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Boca Ratman said:


> Is this the rate for St Paul?


It's the rate card for Minneapolis, I assume it's the same for St. Paul. Whatever the case, since PPZ's, I have NEVER heard of the phenomena of getting a bonus on a ride that didn't come with one on the ping. You might get an adjustment for more on a longer ride if the pax paid surge too BUT never getting one after the fact if you weren't in a PPZ. That would be a new one for me. This and the OP's poor writing skills since he explicitly stated that his fare is based on what the passenger paid leads me to believe he doesn't quite get the fundamentals of rideshare regardless of how many trips he's given.



Another Uber Driver said:


> Is that rate card for Minnesota (Original Poster'smarket) or North Carolina (quoted poster's market)?
> 
> If we calculate using that rate card, based on a figure of one hundred sixty four miles and three hours, the payoff to the driver is ninety four dollars and change. that makes the average for the trip somewhat under sixteen dollars the hour. This assumes no motel stay.
> 
> BOTTOM LINE: I would not do it, unless it were really slow.


I took the time and trouble to get the Minneapolis rates since it didn't appear that OP knew them.Ours in Raleigh/Durham are even worse. I won't do Lyft at all anymore unless it's a huge PPZ and they aren't going far.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> It's the rate card for Minneapolis, I assume it's the same for St. Paul. Whatever the case, since PPZ's, I have NEVER heard of the phenomena of getting a bonus on a ride that didn't come with one on the ping. You might get an adjustment for more on a longer ride if the pax paid surge too BUT never getting one after the fact if you weren't in a PPZ. That would be a new one for me. This and the OP's poor writing skills since he explicitly stated that his fare is based on what the passenger paid leads me to believe he doesn't quite get the fundamentals of rideshare regardless of how many trips he's given.


Your reading skills are questionable.

I didn't say the fare is based on what the passenger paid, but what the passenger paid is an indicator of whether there's a bonus and gives some indication of how large. And yes, bonuses are given and not indicated in the ping - not always, but often. It's in Lyft's interest to do this and Lyft always does what's in their interest.



Disgusted Driver said:


> It's the rate card for Minneapolis, I assume it's the same for St. Paul. Whatever the case, since PPZ's, I have NEVER heard of the phenomena of getting a bonus on a ride that didn't come with one on the ping. You might get an adjustment for more on a longer ride if the pax paid surge too BUT never getting one after the fact if you weren't in a PPZ. That would be a new one for me. This and the OP's poor writing skills since he explicitly stated that his fare is based on what the passenger paid leads me to believe he doesn't quite get the fundamentals of rideshare regardless of how many trips he's given.
> 
> 
> I took the time and trouble to get the Minneapolis rates since it didn't appear that OP knew them.Ours in Raleigh/Durham are even worse. I won't do Lyft at all anymore unless it's a huge PPZ and they aren't going far.


The OP (me) said nothing about the taste card in his post. I knew what the rate was and what the standard earning would be for that trip when I arrived to pick up the passenger.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

bobbbobbobb said:


> Here's another @@@@@fest about poor Lyft pay. The short story is that Lyft wanted me to pay $2.86/hr for a 5½ hour drive.
> 
> Here's the long story.
> 
> ...


I decline all out of town and out of state trips without significant cash upfront. But why do you need a motel room for a 6 hour round trip?


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> I decline all out of town and out of state trips without significant cash upfront. But why do you need a motel room for a 6 hour round trip?


I explained this already. I had already been driving 5 hours that day after a day full of Christmas celebration. The pickup time was midnight. I didn't have the energy to drive almost 6 hours nonstop to the destination and back - I would have been awake for 22 hours that day by the time I got home around 6 am. I had no desire to nap in the car and having to do that is unreasonable anyway, as is having to get a room.

I don't ask for significant amounts of cash up front. I cancel before I do that because there's too much risk of a resentful passenger who carries a grudge and reports something that may or may not be true.



BeansnRice said:


> Did you want this ride or not?
> 
> Seems like you were familiar with the trip and it's potential pay out.
> 
> What changed ?


Did you read? I'll explain this once AGAIN.

I didn't know how long the trip was until I arrived at the pickup point. Once I knew the distance, knowing the rate card is not enough to know how much I would be earning on the trip. Bonuses are often paid out and frequently they're paid without prior notification - you don't know you got a bonus until the ride is done. So, I asked the passenger what the app says they're paying. That's a good indicator of whether there's a bonus and roughly how big it is.


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## 5231XDMA (Apr 7, 2018)

They're paying less per mile than the allowed deduction of 54 cents a mile, everyone with that 38 cent a mile rate should stop working for Lyft, you're literally paying to work and that's illegal. How did Lyft get away with this bull crap?


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Lyft basic is 35 cents per mile in some markets.
The funny part is drivers still taking these calls.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

5231XDMA said:


> They're paying less per mile than the allowed deduction of 54 cents a mile, everyone with that 38 cent a mile rate should stop working for Lyft, you're literally paying to work and that's illegal. How did Lyft get away with this bull crap?


I appreciate the sentiment, but you're assuming the cost of operating the car is equal to the deduction rate.


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## 5231XDMA (Apr 7, 2018)

bobbbobbobb said:


> I appreciate the sentiment, but you're assuming the cost of operating the car is equal to the deduction rate.


You're right it's not the same, the avg cost per mile for a car should be somewhere in the 20 cents. Still, you are okay with making 18 cents a mile?


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

5231XDMA said:


> You're right it's not the same, the avg cost per mile for a car should be somewhere in the 20 cents. Still, you are okay with making 18 cents a mile? The government shouldn't even be okay with it because you're not even going to pay any taxes...And taxes fund our public infrastructure and schools, etc.


I drive a Prius (50 mpg average, ¼ the cost as a normal car for brakes, 70k miles on a set of tires, $0 repair costs in 200k miles so far) and you're forgetting the per-minute rate and bonuses and tips and tax savings.


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## 5231XDMA (Apr 7, 2018)

bobbbobbobb said:


> I drive a Prius (50 mpg average, ¼ the cost as a normal car for brakes, 70k miles on a set of tires, $0 repair costs in 200k miles so far) and you're forgetting the per-minute rate and bonuses and tips and tax savings.


See, you drive a Prius. Your margin is higher than us running gasoline cars. Tax savings only mean something if you've got other income to offset. The avg driver working this gig only pay the self employment tax I believe. Bonuses and tips occur irregularly, I personally would not count those toward wages, if anything they are extra money like lotto. Great to get but can't expect them. Good for you if you are happy with the current pay, but many are not and for good reasons.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

5231XDMA said:


> See, you drive a Prius. Your margin is higher than us running gasoline cars. Tax savings only mean something if you've got other income to offset. The avg driver working this gig only pay the self employment tax I believe. Bonuses and tips occur irregularly, I personally would not count those toward wages, if anything they are extra money like lotto. Great to get but can't expect them.


Well, I'm not making the case that driving is worthwhile. This post is about illustrating how narrow the margins are and how the margin has changed drastically in the last year.


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## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

I always negotiate for Half milage back or I'm not doing the trip. Indicate the agreement in a text, which they respond affirmatively to. For Prof if Lyft/Uber tries to balk at the trip....Enter a second destination halfway back. They don't like this scenario they can tip me in cash half of what they were charged for the trip. Or they can walk.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Dekero said:


> I always negotiate for Half milage back or I'm not doing the trip. Indicate the agreement in a text, which they respond affirmatively to. For Prof if Lyft/Uber tries to balk at the trip....Enter a second destination halfway back. They don't like this scenario they can tip me in cash half of what they were charged for the trip. Or they can walk.


How do you handle the inevitable distrust? If I were the passenger and had never driven, I don't think I'd trust what you tell me about how much money you make.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

After 3 years I can generally determine what a long ride will be within $5. (shrug)

That last Lyft cut was shait. No idea why people drive for those rates. That will be the last time I drive for Lyft if those rates come here.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

bobbbobbobb said:


> How do you handle the inevitable distrust? Is I were the passenger and had never driven, I don't think I'd trust what you tell me about how much money you make.


My rate card:
$0.33/mile with and without the passenger
$0.195/minute with and without the passenger
$300 maximum


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

bobbbobbobb said:


> I explained this already. I had already been driving 5 hours that day after a day full of Christmas celebration. The pickup time was midnight. I didn't have the energy to drive almost 6 hours nonstop to the destination and back - I would have been awake for 22 hours that day by the time I got home around 6 am. I had no desire to nap in the car and having to do that is unreasonable anyway, as is having to get a room.
> 
> I don't ask for significant amounts of cash up front. I cancel before I do that because there's too much risk of a resentful passenger who carries a grudge and reports something that may or may not be true.
> 
> ...


Okay I see it from your prospective now. But it's still a little unreasonable to expect motel coverage on a rideshare trip.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Okay I see it from your prospective now. But it's still a little unreasonable to expect motel coverage on a rideshare trip.


I don't expect it. But it would be reasonable (and fair) for them to do it.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

bobbbobbobb said:


> What's with the probing questions about what I know? I told you the situation. What it costs to operate my car is lost $ piled on top of what I posted. If I could operate the Prius for $0, I still would have lost money. It's a 2015 Prius and yes, I know what it costs to operate.
> 
> What I'm actually paid? No, we don't know what we're paid for the trip unless we ask the passenger or if we complete the trip. The Lyft dashboard certainly doesn't tell you anymore.


No

We know exactly what we get paid. And it has nothing to do with what the customer pays for the trip and it has nothing to do with dollars per hour.

In my market lyft pays 76 cents per mile and 10 cents a minute. So a 120 mile trip, if it takes 3 hours would pay me about $110

I had a ride like that recently and the guy gave a $30 tip and when I got close to home I got a $30 ride. Tottell the whole story; this started with a $30 ride from the airport

So ride one, 30 miles from the airport: ride two 120 miles and 120 miles back and ride three,, 30 miles back to the airport
Total miles= 300
Total dollars $200

66 cents per mile

I like trips like these: My costs are significantly less than 66 cents a mile, .and I wouldn't have gotten a motel

My point is you can't look at this thing we do , one ride at a time. Or even one day at a time. I run my numbers once a week and my average over the last year, over 70000 miles was 70 cents a mile. A bad day or Even a motel room once in a while Shouldn't hurt those averages


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

oldfart said:


> No
> 
> We know exactly what we get paid. And it has nothing to do with what the customer pays for the trip and it has nothing to do with dollars per hour.
> 
> ...


Jesus. Look at my comments. I explain this very thing at least six times. The rate card gives no information at all on bonus pay (call surge pay or prime time). If the ping doesn't show you what your bonus will be (it often doesn't), the only way to get an idea of how big the bonus might be is to ask the passenger what they are paying on the trip. Anything over and above what the passenger rate card calculates to - you'll get some portion of that. Lyft's and Ubers algorithms for calculating bonuses is a mystery to literally everyone. This is not me saying that the bonus is calculated from what the passenger pays. The bonus contributes towhat the passenger pays and it contributes to what the driver gets paid. So it worthwhile to ask the passenger what he is paying.

The major point of this post is to illustrate how thin the margins can be especially on longer trips (how you can actually lose money) and to illustrate how much the margin has shrunk in the last year or so.

I get that you only want to comment on what I posted, but honestly it's not the whole story. I wish I would have written a more complete OP, but I didn't.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

The rate in my market has stayed exactly the same over the 2 years I’ve been doing this 

Yes margins are thin, but they are thin for all rides. I average 50% dead miles, with or without long trips. My good days are those where I have more paid miles and my bad days are when t have more dead miles. 

I don’t dispute that some trips are worse than average, but some are better than average. My point again is you can’t look at this one ride at a time


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

oldfart said:


> The rate in my market has stayed exactly the same over the 2 years I've been doing this
> 
> Yes margins are thin, but they are thin for all rides. I average 50% dead miles, with or without long trips. My good days are those where I have more paid miles and my bad days are when t have more dead miles.
> 
> I don't dispute that some trips are worse than average, but some are better than average. My point again is you can't look at this one ride at a time


Well, the Lyft rates have changed quite a bit here and bonus / primetime pay has been drastically reduced. So margins during non busy times are razor-thin, long trips are no longer desirable under almost any circumstance and busy time margins are a lot worse than they used to be.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

bobbbobbobb said:


> My rate card:
> $0.33/mile with and without the passenger
> $0.195/minute with and without the passenger
> $300 maximum


Trip would be approx:

150 miles @ .33 /mile = $49.50
2.5 hrs (150 min) @ .195 /min = $29.25

Total: approx $78.75 GROSS on a 300 mile R/T

Cancelling was the right thing to do. &#128077;


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

Fozzie said:


> Trip would be approx:
> 
> 150 miles @ .33 /mile = $49.50
> 2.5 hrs (150 min) @ .195 /min = $29.25
> ...


Gotcha, but it was the right thing to do only if there was no significant bonus pay, which I could tell was the case because I asked the passenger what he was paying for the trip, which was about what you'd expect if there were no bonus pay.


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## JLaw1719 (Apr 11, 2017)

You did the right thing by cutting out before it was too late. Too many drivers show up and either let the passengers bully/scare/extort them into doing what is clearly a huge loss. You don’t need to do these rides to figure out what makes or doesn’t make money in your market in the current climate.


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

It doesn't give me any pleasure to say this but it was your fault for taking a ride where you knew you were going to have to deadhead back plus get a hotel room. That's just crazy.

This is rideshare, you're not driving a limousine. You're not going to make that kind of money on a trip unless there is a big surge. One of the reasons I drive an XL ride is because sometimes I get offered XL rides that would not make sense to take if they were X rides. If I get a ride that might be taking me a little bit out of my service area but it's XL I'll take it. Not only does it pay better but XL rides are more likely to tip. Not guaranteed but more likely. If I get the same ride and it's only an ex I decline.

In my area one of the neighboring states that I used to be able to operate in just passed a new law that you have to have that states drivers license in order to do rideshare. So I can no longer operate in that state. Now when I get offered a ride that is going to that area what do you think I do? You are right! I decline.

When I first started doing rideshare I had a rider who had started out in California many years ago when rideshare was first starting. He told me that it would take me six months to learn the ropes. I question that at the time because it seemed like all there was to ride share was just excepting the rides and driving them. Now I have learned just how complicated it is. When it makes sense to move away from certain areas. When it makes sense to reject certain rides. Will you guys know, I am explaining to the choir.

Anyway, I think the point you're making is that catchy you misunderstood the situation. That was not a ride you should have taken. Live and learn.

Rideshare is financially viable if you have a good vehicle, do all of your own maintenance that you can, and are blessed with good rides and riders who are tippers.


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## 5☆OG (Jun 30, 2019)




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## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

bobbbobbobb said:


> How do you handle the inevitable distrust? If I were the passenger and had never driven, I don't think I'd trust what you tell me about how much money you make.


I'll gladly show them my pay sheet at ride end... Got nothing to hide...


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## UserPablo (Jan 27, 2018)

The only way to make any money with lyft now in days is to keep declining rides for until they start to
Offer you a ride bonus !!!!!


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

How is that working out for you?


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## UserPablo (Jan 27, 2018)

Kevin Kargel said:


> How is that working out for you?


Are you asking me ?


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## BeansnRice (Aug 13, 2016)

oldfart said:


> No
> 
> We know exactly what we get paid. And it has nothing to do with what the customer pays for the trip and it has nothing to do with dollars per hour.
> 
> ...


This is why RS drivers will never get paid properly.

Why in the HELL do you think per use, per ride , per minute is NOT important?

Why are you shortchanging yourself and letting U/L determine how your day and week should even out?

For example, if let's say you start the week with 10 crap rides and make $30 the first day out.

The next day you go out and your car won't start because you need a $75 battery.

Market rate for the cheepo rides you did was at least $100 before tips.

In this scenario, a very real scenario, you would still just be ok knowing you should have made more the first day out?

You would STILL be ok with getting shortchanged for the 10 rides?

C'mon!

Every ride counts! Every minute every mile counts!

Wtf!


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## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

bobbbobbobb said:


> Here's another @@@@@fest about poor Lyft pay. The short story is that Lyft wanted me to pay $2.86/hr for a 5½ hour drive.
> 
> Here's the long story.
> 
> ...


Cuz most drivers will not do the analysis like you do and just take the trip because it is "long".
Personally I decline most "out of town" trips if passenger is not chipping in extras. They are not worth it.


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## WEP217 (Oct 11, 2019)

.35 per mile? You making like 1 buck an hour? Crazy people drive for this


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## Funky Monkey (Jul 11, 2016)

Fozzie said:


> Trip would be approx:
> 
> 150 miles @ .33 /mile = $49.50
> 2.5 hrs (150 min) @ .195 /min = $29.25
> ...


Holy mother of God?! I thought Dallas was bad. Why the eff are y'all driving?!?! Are you deaf, dumb and blind? $78.75 gross for 150 miles. That can't possibly be right


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> It's the rate card for Minneapolis, I assume it's the same for St. Paul.
> I took the time and trouble to get the Minneapolis rates since it didn't appear that OP knew them


Thank you for the answer. Given those rates, he should be paid for the trip ninety four dollars and change (or whatever the figure was that I posted) regardless of what the passenger was supposed to pay.

On both platforms, I get trips where the TNC took as much as seventy five per cent and as little as a loss. It is much like the airlines: no two people on the aeroplane pay the same fare.

For ninety four dollars and change, I would not have done the trip.

I did have one really long trip that I turned down. I did not get the ":long trip" warning when I accepted it (that was neither the first nor last time that THIS had happened). I had not even started the trip. I was putting the people's suitcases into the trunk when they guy announced the destination. Immediately, I started to take out the suitcases. The guy asked me what I was doing,

"Sir, I am not going to___________ for the rates that Uber pays."

"What rates will you go for?"

"The only way that I will do this trip is if I take you to my home. We will then unload all suitcases and passengers from this car and put them into my cab. I will then turn on the meter and you can pay what is on the meter when we get to ________________, and yes, I accept credit cards."

"I/m not paying cab rates."

".....and I am not accepting Uber's rates."

I got my cancellation fee, as the timer had counted to the end.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

bobbbobbobb said:


> What the hell is wrong with Uber and Lyft that they think they can get away with this shit?


Because the next ant will gladly take them.

Not sure about needing a hotel, though, for a trip of fewer than 3 hours.



oldfart said:


> I don't dispute that some trips are worse than average, but some are better than average. My point again is you can't look at this one ride at a time


Yes, you can look at it one ride at a time. And you should in order to minimize dead miles and to maximise revenue both per paid mile and per total miles.

You are correct that over a year, taking one trip where no money is made will not decrease any yearly average by any material amount. However, a policy of refusing all zero-earnings trips and low earning trips will certainly have a material effect on all earnings, yearly, monthly, weekly and daily.

It's also common sense to reject all low/no earnings ride where possible. Pick a day this year. Any day. I'll choose October 15, 2020 for you. On this day you can choose to earn either (a) $10 or (b) $150 for the same amount of work. Neither option will materially affect your daily average for the whole year, however, which option would you prefer, a or b?


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

bobbbobbobb said:


> You didn't read. I said I asked the passenger what he's paying for the trip. I had not taken a trip to that town before. 3 hour rides are extremely rare.


how many miles was the trip?


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## robg77 (May 17, 2016)

Bob would have been paid about $80 for the trip from Saint Paul to Marshall based on his rate card (I did the math). Asking the passenger what he was charged to get an idea of what the potential bonus would be -- makes no sense.

Unless Bob accepted the request inside a PBZ or had a PBZ bonus stuck on his next ride, there would not have been a bonus paid. A PBZ bonus amount will always be displayed as the request comes in and Bob would have seen - if he was inside a PBZ - the PBZ bonus increase .02 every second. The bonus amount he was to get on his next ride would be clearly displayed.

So, if Bob did not have a PBZ attached to that Saint Paul to Marshall ride, he would have made around $80. However, even if Bob had a PBZ bonus attached to the ride, how much the passenger paid would not not give Bob an accurate indication of whether or not the passenger was charged prime time rates.

The PBZ bonus is a sticky surge and will apply to the next ride, even if the passenger is outside the surge zone. So the driver could have a PBZ bonus attached to the next ride even after leaving the surge zone and accepting a ride in an area with little demand.

Now, if Bob had a PBZ bonus attached to that ride (let's say $6.80 for this example) and the passenger was charged a surge, Lyft would have likely paid Bob an increased PBZ bonus because of the trip's length.

Both Lyft and Uber will adjust the surge amount to higher than the minimum on the screen for long trips. So that (pretend) $6.80 PBZ guarteened min bonus Bob earned when he accepted the ride would have been much higher when he ended the trip in Marshall. But again, what the passenger paid would have no barring on any of this.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Because the next ant will gladly take them.
> 
> Yes, you can look at it one ride at a time. And you should in order to minimize dead miles and to maximise revenue both per paid mile and per total miles.
> 
> ...


I agree that you should do what you can do to minimize bad rides and maximize good rides and I'm not saying take everything. What I'm saying is that most of the time you can't tell how a ride is going to turn out from the info in the ping. And my experience is that under those circumstances (not knowing) the good out weighs the bad


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

oldfart said:


> What I'm saying is that most of the time you can't tell how a ride is going to turn out from the info in the ping. And my experience is that under those circumstances (not knowing) the good out weighs the bad


Doesn't apply in this case - the OP did know that it would be a zero-profit ride before the trip started and he was right to reject it.

Even in cases when the destination is unknown before hitting Start Trip, in extreme cases it's still ok in my book to eject pax if you see a horrific destination once you've started the trip. If it's a choice between me losing significant money and the pax having to get another ride, I win I'm afraid.


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## Cary Grant (Jul 14, 2015)

I've no problems with asking for a "Return to Service Area" or "Return to Boundary" fee, paid in advance, cash ONLY (I might let them Venmo or Zelle me, but NO IN-APP fees, PERIOD -- you can REALLY get screwed here, so this is not negotiable).

I've had a few balk and refuse, but most pay, which is why I've been to Austin, Houston, San Antonio, and OKC, etc. for nice paid round trips. I have a rate card for the larger cities, larger universities, and military installations that are in the 2-5+ hour range outside my service area. If they are going somewhere near those, I have something to work with. Otherwise, I need 50% of their upfront price quote. If they don't have one, I'll use my tablet to get one and then it's 50% of the high estimate. I will take them to an ATM if necessary.

I do all of this BEFORE I load them up, BEFORE I begin the trip.

I keep a print out of the DFW service area map in my logbook. If anyone asks, I can show them instantly what I'm talking about. I also keep a print out of the page that explains this one exception to the rule about asking for cash. It has since moved, but I have my copy, and nothing from Uber that says I can't continue to do this.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Cary Grant said:


> It has since been deleted but I have my copy, and nothing from Uber that says I can't continue to do this.


FIFY


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## Wolfgang Faust (Aug 2, 2018)

Bob is no boob.
He did the smart thing.


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## ObsidianSedan (Jul 13, 2019)

If the rate per mile is $0.352, I'd never drive for that platform again.


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## Alltel77 (Mar 3, 2019)

Took me 3 hours to read all these posts gonna check in to a hotel to rest now.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

Chicago Market
*This is the amount you'll take home.*
Base Rate $1.432 
Cancel Penalty $5.00 
* Maximum Rate $320.00 *
Minimum Rate $2.40 
Per Mile $0.648 
Per Minute $0.224 
Scheduled Cancel Penalty $10.00

At 75mph average, how many miles would you need to drive to earn $320? (I've never been good at math)


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## RioRoja (Mar 13, 2017)

After reading this thread, I'm in the "Lyft seems work differently for Bob than it does for the rest of us" camp.


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## Lady WaWa (Oct 20, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> The probing questions are because it's clear that you have no idea what you are doing. For sure, you have no idea how you are paid. The one thing you got right is that it's a money loser. Here's the rate card they use to determine your pay for a trip, it has nothing to do with what the passengers pay.


We're in the same area and should have the same rates. My most recent (pay cut) rates from Lyft: Max rate $300, Min rate $4.12, .33 Per Mile (with or without passenger), .195 Per Minute, .45 Per pick-up Do men get paid more?

Good job turning down the long ride. Ridiculous amount of money paid to take a stranger that far out of the city. They don't run background checks on passengers.


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

Lady WaWa said:


> We're in the same area and should have the same rates. My most recent (pay cut) rates from Lyft: Max rate $300, Min rate $4.12, .33 Per Mile (with or without passenger), .195 Per Minute, .45 Per pick-up Do men get paid more?
> 
> Good job turning down the long ride. Ridiculous amount of money paid to take a stranger that far out of the city. They don't run background checks on passengers.


yeah at 33 cents a mile driving 180 miles (the OP states that it's a 3 hour drive so I'm estimating 180 miles) that's only $59.40 of earnings based on miles. 180 minutes x 19.5 cents per minute = $35.10. Then Lyft and Uncle Sam is gonna take a piece of that. And then you gotta dead mile it back.

Oh yeah you'd have to be an idiot to do that trip. A Cab company would charge $350-$400 for a ride like that.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> The probing questions are because it's clear that you have no idea what you are doing. For sure, you have no idea how you are paid. The one thing you got right is that it's a money loser. Here's the rate card they use to determine your pay for a trip, it has nothing to do with what the passengers pay.


35 cents a ****ing mile is absurd!!

i make 60 cents a mile and thats the bare minimum I'm driving for

If they cut rates again i'm getting my commercial driving license and getting a real job

you guys outta be ashamed of yourselves for driving for 35 cents a mile



bobbbobbobb said:


> The trip would have started at midnight, after about 5 hours of driving, which began after a long day of family Christmas stuff. I would have been fine for the drive to the destination, but not for the drive back without sleep. A nap in the car isn't sleep.


you shoulda just said you had been driving for 8 hours and didn't want to risk drowsy driiving instead of the "not worth it" defense


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

well its this simple 200 miles x your mile rate. plus min rate = pay. plus dead head home...
this is what i do if i accept . thinking its only 50 miles and find out its a total loser.
sir i really want to take this long trip but it will take me 6 hours. i must pick my kids up at the babysitter. in 2hours. the lyft people did not tell me how far u were going. great news . so many would love this trip. i will cancel for free . happy newyears..GTFO


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## ohnos (Nov 2, 2019)

Long trips are to rip driver off. Do not do them unless they guarantee 25 Plus an hour. That is pay for both ways. Just don't do it.


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## GreatOrchid (Apr 9, 2019)

lyft pays 35 cents irs lets us deduct 58 cants for gas and wear that means we work for free where my free chicks


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## ObsidianSedan (Jul 13, 2019)

GreatOrchid said:


> lyft pays 35 cents irs lets us deduct 58 cants for gas and wear that means we work for free where my free chicks


Yep. Lyft paying $0.352/mile while the IRS allows us to deduct $0.575/mile (in 2020) also means that taxpayers are subsidizing Lyft's operating expenses.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

After being online 8+ hours for the day lyft sends me a +45 per usual I contact especially in bad weather I was really just playing ghost car as there was zero incentive to drive this day

Pax texts back amounts to a 4 hour ride, start of rush hour to mountains in a snow storm so no chains means I couldn't of did it if I wanted to, halfway there I would of been over my daily hours and they would of cut my app off or not paid me & another 4+ hours home with no pay

LMAO

Needless to say I cancelled but seriously it's a few lines of code to show how many miles minutes no need to trick people I would of been pissed getting there & finding out, not everyone can just do an 8+ hour ride geez


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## Lady WaWa (Oct 20, 2019)

It's only getting worse. Worked 4.25 hours + .50 car clean-up Pay 62.00 Tips 13.00 Fuel 20.00 

I drove LYFT today for $8.84 an hour + tips. 

Pissed.


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> It doesn't give me any pleasure to say this but it was your fault for taking a ride where you knew you were going to have to deadhead back plus get a hotel room.


How would you know that you'll have to drive back empty unless you accept the ride first? Its not like Lyft tells you where the ride is going before you accept it (it least it doesn't do it in my market).


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

Lady WaWa said:


> It's only getting worse. Worked 4.25 hours + .50 car clean-up Pay 62.00 Tips 13.00 Fuel 20.00
> 
> I drove LYFT today for $8.84 an hour + tips.
> 
> Pissed.


You used $20 worth of gas in 4.25 hours. Expensive State, or a Gas Guzzler, or both?



ohnos said:


> Long trips are to rip driver off. Do not do them unless they guarantee 25 Plus an hour. That is pay for both ways. Just don't do it.


Lyft is gradually adjusting their software to not tell us if the trip is +45 minutes. Already this year, I've had two +45 minute rides that did not show as Long Distance requests.


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## surlyuber619 (Oct 11, 2017)

hotel stay? WTF LOL


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

Syn said:


> How would you know that you'll have to drive back empty unless you accept the ride first? Its not like Lyft tells you where the ride is going before you accept it (it least it doesn't do it in my market).


Pretty much every long ride is a dead head back in 5000+ trips I can count on my hand the times I've had a 45+ minute trip & soon as I dropped off or before leaving area was matched with a ride going anywhere remotely close to home or desired location that might as well be the lottery

At airport I've probably had hundreds of rematches maybe bout 50 to my area so the rest mostly cancelled cuz I'm not driving an hour + home with no compensation

It happens but every ride I expect I'm heading home because I'm not going to loiter, trespass,park in my car for 1 minute to 4 hours for a ride that has a 90% chance of paying me $4-8 gross LMAO

There's absolutely no reason a driver dropping off at airport can't get a ride to their area other than greed & they don't care about efficiency at all

I guarantee every long ride I get from airport there's a driver that needs to go or lives there but they don't get it


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Syn said:


> How would you know that you'll have to drive back empty unless you accept the ride first? Its not like Lyft tells you where the ride is going before you accept it (it least it doesn't do it in my market).


Lyft does tell you when it's a long ride. You can call the customer and ask them where they're going before you even get there. That's how I do it.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

The title of this thread should be "Lyft net loss on every trip"


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## SOLA-RAH (Dec 31, 2014)

bobbbobbobb said:


> My rate card:
> $0.33/mile with and without the passenger
> $0.195/minute with and without the passenger
> $300 maximum


LOLOLOLOLOLOL, dude, just quit lyft forever. There's no hope at those rates.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

SOLA-RAH said:


> LOLOLOLOLOLOL, dude, just quit lyft forever. There's no hope at those rates.


You did notice the driver is paid the same for driving to the passenger as driving with the passenger, right?


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## OCBob (Jan 20, 2015)

I think the guy was lying. If the trip is 3 hours and say no rush hour traffic, you should be going at least 160 miles away. Here in SOCAL, you average about $1 a mile (with time) so your cut should have been approximately $160. Maybe he had a discount in his app which doesn't matter to you. Another item, do you have destination in your app so you don't dead mile it all the way back? If you are doing Lyft and need to come in with a motel cost, wtf are you thinking? Something just isn't being calculated correctly either by him or you. You might need to quit.



bobbbobbobb said:


> You did notice the driver is paid the same for driving to the passenger as driving with the passenger, right?


While some rides can be good at that rate, you taking someone far is a horrible pay out. I would not even turn on the car for that ride. 20 miles taking 30 minutes on a pick up that was 1 mile away/3 minutes is a total of $7 plus time of $6.60. A total of $13.30 for 33 minutes and 21 miles of driving? I would be getting about $20 just for the ride and no pick up pay (which Lyft should do for long pick up rides). This is horrible not on time but usage of the car and gas.


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

OCBob said:


> I think the guy was lying. If the trip is 3 hours and say no rush hour traffic, you should be going at least 160 miles away. Here in SOCAL, you average about $1 a mile (with time) so your cut should have been approximately $160. Maybe he had a discount in his app which doesn't matter to you. Another item, do you have destination in your app so you don't dead mile it all the way back? If you are doing Lyft and need to come in with a motel cost, wtf are you thinking? Something just isn't being calculated correctly either by him or you. You might need to quit.
> 
> 
> While some rides can be good at that rate, you taking someone far is a horrible pay out. I would not even turn on the car for that ride. 20 miles taking 30 minutes on a pick up that was 1 mile away/3 minutes is a total of $7 plus time of $6.60. A total of $13.30 for 33 minutes and 21 miles of driving? I would be getting about $20 just for the ride and no pick up pay (which Lyft should do for long pick up rides). This is horrible not on time but usage of the car and gas.


Jesus, why do you jump right to "lying"? At highway speeds, the total earnings per mile is about $.55 to $.60 which is stated elsewhere here.

Yes, quitting is a distinct possibility. This is a new phone for this area. I calculated correctly. If you're really interested in finding out whether I'm an ignorant child, read the rest of this thread before coming in with ignorant SOCAL knives and axes.


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## OCBob (Jan 20, 2015)

bobbbobbobb said:


> Jesus, why do you jump right to "lying"? At highway speeds, the total earnings per mile is about $.55 to $.60 which is stated elsewhere here.
> 
> Yes, quitting is a distinct possibility. This is a new phone for this area. I calculated correctly. If you're really interested in finding out whether I'm an ignorant child, read the rest of this thread before coming in with ignorant SOCAL knives and axes.


I didnt say you were lying, I said the Pax was lying. If I thought you were lying, I would say just that "I think you are lying".


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

OCBob said:


> I think the guy was lying. If the trip is 3 hours and say no rush hour traffic, you should be going at least 160 miles away. Here in SOCAL, you average about $1 a mile (with time) so your cut should have been approximately $160. Maybe he had a discount in his app which doesn't matter to you. Another item, do you have destination in your app so you don't dead mile it all the way back? If you are doing Lyft and need to come in with a motel cost, wtf are you thinking? Something just isn't being calculated correctly either by him or you. You might need to quit.
> 
> 
> While some rides can be good at that rate, you taking someone far is a horrible pay out. I would not even turn on the car for that ride. 20 miles taking 30 minutes on a pick up that was 1 mile away/3 minutes is a total of $7 plus time of $6.60. A total of $13.30 for 33 minutes and 21 miles of driving? I would be getting about $20 just for the ride and no pick up pay (which Lyft should do for long pick up rides). This is horrible not on time but usage of the car and gas.


From Marshall to Minneapolis, deadhead is almost certain because nobody is traveling that way at 3 am. I don't get the vitriol over the hotel. If you had already been driving about 6 hours and you were then going on a 2½ to 3 hour trip at midnight, wouldn't you think twice about driving another 3 hours until 6 am?

READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE, CHAMP.



OCBob said:


> I didnt say you were lying, I said the Pax was lying. If I thought you were lying, I would say just that "I think you are lying".


The passenger wasn't lying. We looked at his phone together. $127 is now a fairly standard charge for a trip of that length. It is a drastic change from a few months ago.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

bobbbobbobb said:


> You did notice the driver is paid the same for driving to the passenger as driving with the passenger, right?


33 cents a mile with or without pax is a joke

im making 60 cents a mile in SF Bay area with Uber and thats bare minimum what Ill take


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> 33 cents a mile with or without pax is a joke
> 
> im making 60 cents a mile in SF Bay area with Uber and thats bare minimum what Ill take


Cool. Gotcha. I'm sure your cost of living MUST be the same as mine.


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## JLaw1719 (Apr 11, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Thank you for the answer. Given those rates, he should be paid for the trip ninety four dollars and change (or whatever the figure was that I posted) regardless of what the passenger was supposed to pay.
> 
> On both platforms, I get trips where the TNC took as much as seventy five per cent and as little as a loss. It is much like the airlines: no two people on the aeroplane pay the same fare.
> 
> ...


10/10. Would read again.

In fact, I did &#129304;


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> The title of this thread should be "Lyft net loss on every trip"


But it's not a net loss nearly all the time.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

bobbbobbobb said:


> But it's not a net loss nearly all the time.


do you work for Lyft's PR team ?


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

bobbbobbobb said:


> Here's another @@@@@fest about poor Lyft pay. The short story is that Lyft wanted me to pay $2.86/hr for a 5½ hour drive.
> 
> Here's the long story.
> 
> ...


why can't you simply figure the mileage the time and how much you are paid for each?


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## bobbbobbobb (Apr 12, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> do you work for Lyft's PR team ?


I drive a Prius



iheartuber said:


> why can't you simply figure the mileage the time and how much you are paid for each?


Because you often don't know the bonus you're going to be paid until the ride is over. How many times do I have to explain this? Finding out what the passenger is going to pay before the ride starts gives you some clue about that.



iheartuber said:


> why can't you simply figure the mileage the time and how much you are paid for each?


Because you often don't know the bonus you're going to be paid until the ride is over. How many times do I have to explain this? Finding out what the passenger is going to pay before the ride starts gives you some clue about that.


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## troothequalstroll (Oct 12, 2019)

bobbbobbobb said:


> You did notice the driver is paid the same for driving to the passenger as driving with the passenger, right?


Makes it even worse LMAO cab rates in 1919 were .50 a mile look it up on the wiki

The Yellow Taxicab Co. was incorporated in New York on April 4, 1912. Its fares that year started at 50¢/mile

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_cab
.33 means you lack math ability and or are starving / homeless


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

troothequalstroll said:


> Makes it even worse LMAO cab rates in 1919 were .50 a mile look it up on the wiki The Yellow Taxicab Co. was incorporated in New York on April 4, 1912. Its fares that year started at 50¢/mile


The jurisdictions really did not start to regulate rates until the 1930s. Before that, they did allow you to charge anything that you wanted. In many jurisdictions, there was a requirement that you put your rates somewhere on the outside of the vehicle where prospective passengers could see them.

The regulation came due to public outcry and editorials that complained about customers' not being able to know their fare, as the cabs were charging different rates.

Washington, D.C. began to regulate rates in 1931 by Congressional order. Before that, you had some cab companies that used meters, some that used a Zone System. The meters were calibrated differently and some of the zone maps differed, as well. In 1929, Congress picked Bell Cab's zone map and put it into effect in 1931. D.C. cabs used a Zone System from 1931 to 2008, when Our Former Dear Revered Leader Kim il-Fenty, in a dazzling display of micromanaging the cab business, ordered the installation of meters.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

AlexCom said:


> Every time I see a 45+ on lyft I head towards that address keeping my uber on, a while ago you almost constantly would have that same ping coming on uber, not anymore, there's plenty of lyft lunatics accepting those 45+ crap


Depends on your specific market. When I'm not in the core and see a 45+ then the majority of the time the person is going to LAX which means an easy rematch after the drop off or being in a high density area. I do remember a ride being added to my que once and when I arrived the guy and his girl had luggage. Turned out it was a 45+ trip to the SGV and I was in LA. 3 PM. At the start of rush hour traffic. Instant cancel and an explanation that I wasn't going that far and especially in bumper-to-bumper traffic on the fwy. They were going to be my last ride of the day anyway.


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## oldnavyht3 (Jul 17, 2019)

bobbbobbobb said:


> You didn't read. I said I asked the passenger what he's paying for the trip. I had not taken a trip to that town before. 3 hour rides are extremely rare.


I like your frame of thinking. Hoping your state adopts a california version of AB5 to push uber/lyft to at least make the pay back or close to what it once was instead of cutting the mileage/minute pay and bonuses.


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