# Right-wing news sites, PR firms, and an online 'cultivated troll army' are all reportedly helping Uber and Lyft's push for Prop 22, which would classi



## OC-Moe (Oct 6, 2018)

https://www.businessinsider.com/ube...errer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

Here is the updated title

Right-wing news sites, PR firms, and an online 'cultivated troll army' are all reportedly helping Uber and Lyft's push for Prop 22, which would classify drivers as contractors


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## OC-Moe (Oct 6, 2018)

jocker12 said:


> Here is the updated title
> 
> Right-wing news sites, PR firms, and an online 'cultivated troll army' are all reportedly helping Uber and Lyft's push for Prop 22, which would classify drivers as contractors


it's too long but I tried


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Rwnsprfoctarhulpfp22cdac

Also know as "efilnikcufecin"


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

OC-Moe said:


> it's too long but I tried


I know, not your fault.

Wonder how that idiotic 'cultivated troll army' would react when exposed by an established mainstream media outlet.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

I never talk politics with pax even when they try to include me. However with Prop 22 I have been asking them to vote yes. Most agreed a few didn't know much about it and will probably vote yes and for a couple of AB5 "know-it-alls" that knew nothing about the bill did concede the ants they spoke with hate the bill and accept the ants don't want it and will probably vote yes as well.

AB5 is not going to help the "victims" who need Big Daddy Government to take care of them. They may think making minimum wage is better because they think it will be the full minimum wage and completely ignore how there will be deductions.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

jocker12 said:


> I know, not your fault.
> 
> Wonder how that idiotic 'cultivated troll army' would react when exposed by an established mainstream media outlet.


Have you WATCHED " MAINSTREAM" LATELY ?

THEY ARE THE MASTERS OF TROLLING.


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## Cereal Killer (Aug 10, 2020)

OC-Moe said:


> https://www.businessinsider.com/ube...errer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s


Who's your source? Trump?


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Have you WATCHED " MAINSTREAM" LATELY ?
> 
> THEY ARE THE MASTERS OF TROLLING.


I know what you are referring to, but one needs to make a fundamental distinction - rideshare is not part of any corporate conglomerate that allows sister mainstream media outlets to intentionally omit information or intentionally misinform and misdirect the public.

This election year makes all this rideshare issue quite unique with big unprofitable corporations fighting to continue to abuse, versus the divided electing public - one part delusional about the "great American capitalism" that (in this case) is exploiting workers and partners, and the other part suffering the exploitation.

The rideshare trolling you are referring to is framed in the title of the posted article - "Right-wing news sites" where some of them could be easily labeled "mainstream". Surprisingly, even Bloomberg could sometimes be considered very close to right-wing, and having Bloomberg exposing the troll army supporting few corporations battle against their small hard working partners, to me, ads to the trouble.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

jocker12 said:


> I know what you are referring to, but one needs to make a fundamental distinction - rideshare is not part of any corporate conglomerate that allows sister mainstream media outlets to intentionally omit information or intentionally misinform and misdirect the public.
> 
> This election year makes all this rideshare issue quite unique with big unprofitable corporations fighting to continue to abuse, versus the divided electing public - one part delusional about the "great American capitalism" that (in this case) is exploiting workers and partners, and the other part suffering the exploitation.
> 
> The rideshare trolling you are referring to is framed in the title of the posted article - "Right-wing news sites" where some of them could be easily labeled "mainstream". Surprisingly, even Bloomberg could sometimes be considered very close to right-wing, and having Bloomberg exposing the troll army supporting few corporations battle against their small hard working partners, to me, ads to the trouble.


Interesting story. Does the "troll army" participate here? Asking for a friend.


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## jocker12 (May 11, 2017)

goneubering said:


> Interesting story. Does the "troll army" participate here? Asking for a friend.


As shown, this thread is not attracting any corporate rideshare defending commentators.

Anyway, even Uber employees are suing Uber, so what does that tells you about Uber? - see https://uberpeople.net/threads/empl...ability-following-stock-price-decline.411154/

I wonder if all the rideshare companies spending for this Proposition 22 to be passed in California, and keep drivers independent contractors, are clearly explaining their shareholders how the money are spent and how are those companies framing those expenses for future financial reports.

Meanwhile...
https://qz.com/1896564/postmates-is-hiring-regional-organizers-to-fight-employee-status/
Why does a company wants to hire additional "regional organizers" (wink, wink.... and spend more money) if the vast majority of its partners (wink, wink) wants to remain under the independent contractor status? Or they actually don't, and need to be convinced/instigated to remain independent contractors?

I think I am asking for the same friend.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

I would laugh so hard if prop 22 was declared unconstitutional in march after they blow all this money on it...


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

jocker12 said:


> Here is the updated title
> 
> Right-wing news sites, PR firms, and an online 'cultivated troll army' are all reportedly helping Uber and Lyft's push for Prop 22, which would classify drivers as contractors


While hiding full contract details, setting rates, and controlling Dispatching.

How does prop 22 help classify drivers as contractors? It only creates a third category.

Why don't you guys want to be actual contractors, not some sub category.

Ask Uber and Lyft to simply show contract details, and allow driver to set rates. This passes part A of ABC

Ask Uber and Lyft to allow passengers to choose the driver based on price, rating, car type. This satisfies part B of ABC.

Most drivers work for multiple platforms so that passes part C of ABC Already.

If you go against the small changes needed to keep independent status, your being cheated.

With prop 22 they don't need to respect your IC status and make the needed modifications.
With ABC test they have to respect your rights to call you an IC.

You guys don't want to be legitimate IC's then? You will hurt the ones who want to pass the ABC test and be actual IC's.

Uber is a second away from passing the ABC test. Lyft has done nothing to even try.

Passing the ABC test takes small modifications. Intentionally they don't make the needed changes and we blame Carl Marx and other Drivers.

Very smart,&#128077;&#128077;&#128076;&#128077;✌


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## OC-Moe (Oct 6, 2018)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> While hiding full contract details, setting rates, and controlling Dispatching.
> 
> How does prop 22 help classify drivers as contractors? It only creates a third category.
> 
> ...


Über and Lyft are game companies, with in app badges, bells, and whistles and shenanigans galore


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

They would have to go through this website in order to sway opinion, it will all be in vain cause this website is a black void when it comes to helping Uber.

Prop22 is a trick to make everyone fall in love with what should have been "Uber" 4-5 years ago, the second everyone bites and Uber gets to call the shots again, the changes will dwindle as the months pass, they will make changes little by little until they finally say "look guys, cheaper rides means more money" once again.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

The Entomologist said:


> They would have to go through this website in order to sway opinion, it will all be in vain cause this website is a black void when it comes to helping Uber.
> 
> Prop22 is a trick to make everyone fall in love with what should have been "Uber" 4-5 years ago, the second everyone bites and Uber gets to call the shots again, the changes will dwindle as the months pass, they will make changes little by little until they finally say "look guys, cheaper rides means more money" once again.


Doing quick calculations and i see uber's pay model in prop 22 being up to $10.00 an hour less than min wage standards (including expense reimbursements)

If prop 22 is the law i think that pay will have a LOT of wiggle room to come _way down_ in California.

Truth be told, min wage standard is right around where drivers are currently paid based on what i'm hearing from you guys. ($22-30 an hour)

(based on the state wide min wage of $13.00 an hour for employers with over 26 employees)
_Prop 22 is simply 28.16c per minute while engaged and 30c a mile (ALL TIME AND MILES on trips). Time pay would only kick in if your actually on a ping._

As an employer uber/lyft would be stuck paying for time between pings.
_(1) whether there are excessive geographical restrictions on employees' movements; (2) whether the frequency of calls is unduly restrictive; (3) whether a required response time is unduly restrictive; _(4) whether the on-call employee can easily trade his on-call responsibilities with another employee_, and (6) the extent of personal activities engage d in during o n-call time. _(O.L . 1998.12.28)

Basically waiting for pings falls into this category, by a very very wide margin. The only PART of this uber would fall under is "excessive geographical restrictions... however that is completely negated by uber failing every other portion of the test, and if your getting calls so fast that you can't make it home than it's just not even close.... they fail the test for the time being on call or standby by such a wide wide margin it's laughable. SO they would have to pay EMPLOYEES for time between pings. Also if you turn down pings then they could argue that your not really on call and they wouldn't have to pay for the time.

This would fall into a situation where you would _need_ to accept everything to get paid for the time.

However if they kicked you offline and put you into a queue to go back online that would _not_ be payable as long as they made you wait hours to go back online.

Min wage is $13-15 an hour (including paying for time between fares) depending on higher numbers for different cities, plus .57.5c for all miles driven. YES this includes times _between fares_.

So unless your already at 30c a minute 30c a mile rates you have _a lot_ to go down yet, because honestly, this is like just barely more than


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> While hiding full contract details, setting rates, and controlling Dispatching.
> 
> How does prop 22 help classify drivers as contractors? It only creates a third category.
> 
> ...


People who want to be actual ICs should vote NO on Prop 22. If the initiative is defeated, the the ride share and delivery companies will be forced to change for the better.

Here's why: An employee model would never work for Uber and Lyft, and these companies won't ever go that direction. That's a given. Nor will Uber or Lyft pull out of California. That would be too expensive.

If Prop 22 is defeated, Uber and Lyft are backed into a corner and forced to reckon with AB5. Since they cannot function with an employee model, and they won't want to leave California, then they are left with one option: Redesign the app so that it can satisfy AB5's definition of ICs.

That means changing the app over to an auction-based platform. In that scenario drivers would bid on each trip; have complete trip details in advance of acceptance; and retain their right of refusal without penalty. Drivers could participate in multiple auctions on both Uber and Lyft at once.

Uber and Lyft have the ability to create such a thing-they just don't want to because they have a market advantage running the show. They set price and make the policies which perpetuate their duopoly.

I say let the actual market (not Uber) decide what a particular trip is worth at any given moment.


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## 34-Methoxyzacko (May 9, 2020)

tohunt4me said:


> Have you WATCHED " MAINSTREAM" LATELY ?
> 
> THEY ARE THE MASTERS OF TROLLING.


Sadly, this is true.

In fact, the more I see/hear, the more I realize it just might not have been as bad a decision as I thought when, back in Y2K, I asked my [published author] professor about my having noticed something interesting...

Course: "*Intro to Mass Media*" (CMCA 2200)

*Me*: "Dr. [prof], I've noticed our primary text seems to be missing some information; I cannot find a specific word, even in the index. I'm troubled by this."
*Prof*: "I'm sure I can help. What are you having trouble finding?"
*Me*: "_Propaganda_. This is, after all, Introduction to Mass Media; _Propaganda_ has been well-established and, at minimum, should be defined within the text. Where might I find it in this text, sir?"

I was asked to visit him during his office hours.
(The term _Propaganda_ was not once printed in the textbook titled "Introduction To Mass Media")

By the following semester, I switched majors.
From Advertising to Psychology.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

34-Methoxyzacko said:


> Sadly, this is true.
> 
> In fact, the more I see/hear, the more I realize it just might not have been as bad a decision as I thought when, back in Y2K, I asked my [published author] professor about my having noticed something interesting...
> 
> ...


Good move.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

stuber said:


> People who want to be actual ICs should vote NO on Prop 22.


The word *"IC (independent contractor)"* should be banned.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

sasu66 said:


> The word *"IC (independent contractor)"* should be banned.


No. It's a valid description. In fact it's the description many of us choose.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

goneubering said:


> No. It's a valid description. In fact it's the description many of us choose.


 That's your opinion and i don't agree with it. You can't be an independent contractor if you are not allowed to control the service.

"You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done). This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed." 





Independent Contractor Defined | Internal Revenue Service


Review the definition of an independent contractor and related tax obligations.




www.irs.gov


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

sasu66 said:


> That's your opinion and i don't agree with it. You can't be an independent contractor if you are not allowed to control the service.
> 
> "You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done). This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed."
> 
> ...


Even under Uber's manipulative Algorithm I control what will be done and how it will be done and where it will be done and when it will be done. If they don't like my excellent service they can end the relationship at any time. I will never be forced into being an employee of Uber.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

goneubering said:


> Even under Uber's manipulative Algorithm I control what will be done and how it will be done and where it will be done and when it will be done. If they don't like my excellent service they can end the relationship at any time. I will never be forced into being an employee of Uber.


 Employment agreements are engaged in voluntarily. After all, you're an owner operator. It's your vehicle and your service. Everything else is just details. Excellent service means your passengers should be able to request you again. Does Uber provide you repeat passengers?


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## dgates01 (Jun 24, 2018)

I only do UE here in Bakersfield. I put my ballot in the mail today. I actually left the choice blank on my ballot. Because let's face it folks, as drivers, we're going to get screwed no matter how it pans out for ride share/food delivery companies. Whether independent contractor or employees, we'll never really see a suitable scenario that works for _us_. The deck will be stacked no matter what.

P.S. Most polls show the measure losing anyway.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

sasu66 said:


> Employment agreements are engaged in voluntarily. After all, you're an owner operator. It's your vehicle and your service. Everything else is just details. Excellent service means your passengers should be able to request you again. Does Uber provide you repeat passengers?


Sometimes. But it's not important if they do or don't. Wishful thinking won't get Uber to follow your instructions.



dgates01 said:


> I only do UE here in Bakersfield. I put my ballot in the mail today. I actually left the choice blank on my ballot. Because let's face it folks, as drivers, we're going to get screwed no matter how it pans out for ride share/food delivery companies. Whether independent contractor or employees, we'll never really see a suitable scenario that works for _us_. The deck will be stacked no matter what.
> 
> P.S. Most polls show the measure losing anyway.


Exactly.


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## sasu66 (Sep 7, 2020)

goneubering said:


> Sometimes. Wishful thinking won't get Uber to follow your instructions.


 Requested driver has been industry standard for a long time. Even you drive for a farming company, you'd get the same passenger again.


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