# Uber and Lyft could destroy car ownership in major cities



## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-and-lyft-limit-personal-car-use-study-2017-8

Ride-hailing giants have said for years that their services will start to kill car ownership by giving urban dwellers a cheaper and more efficient way of getting around.

A recent study from the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute, Texas A&M Transportation Institute, and Columbia University supports that notion.

Uber and Lyft left Austin, Texas in May 2016 after servicing the city since 2014. The ridehailing giants called it quits after voters upheld strict regulations on the companies, like issuing fingerprint-based background checks.

Uber and Lyft returned in May after lawmakers passed a bill overriding the strict regulations.

The departure offered a unique window of opportunity for researchers to investigate how people changed their habits after growing accustomed to ride-hailing services.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

And McDonalds was suppose to kill the restaurant business back in the late 60's early 70's. Just like customers became sick of McDonalds ever declining quality of food pax will get fed up with angry drivers, being cancelled on, paying surge and lack of vehicular freedom.
Just like McDonalds is now only popular with the fat lazy poor American, Uber will soon only appeal to the drunk obnoxious youth.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

MHR said:


> http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-and-lyft-limit-personal-car-use-study-2017-8


How many years have i spoken of this ?

Once AGAIN
PLEASE READ AGENDA 21 AND OBJECTIVES TO ELIMINATE PERSONAL VEHICLE OWNERSHIP GLOBALLY !

This is why Globalists want to control Uber.


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## canyon (Dec 22, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> And McDonalds was suppose to kill the restaurant business back in the late 60's early 70's. Just like customers became sick of McDonalds ever declining quality of food pax will get fed up with angry drivers, being cancelled on, paying surge and Slack of vehicular freedom.
> Just like McDonalds is now only popular with the fat lazy poor American, Uber will soon only appeal to the drunk obnoxious youth.


 Amen to that.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

not in seattle they wont. too many outdoorsy types who need their own rigs and usually something bigger than a prius to get into the mountains, tow their water craft, go camping, take a trip to the coast, etc.



SEAL Team 5 said:


> Just like McDonalds is now only popular with the fat lazy poor American, Uber will soon only appeal to the drunk obnoxious youth.


exactly. the brand has already suffered serious damage from their bonehead move of subsidizing rides. all the stuff that made people hate cabs now happens all the time with boober. you get what you pay for. low cost rides = low quality service/drivers. it's very simple....


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> And McDonalds was suppose to kill the restaurant business back in the late 60's early 70's. Just like customers became sick of McDonalds ever declining quality of food pax will get fed up with angry drivers, being cancelled on, paying surge and lack of vehicular freedom.
> Just like McDonalds is now only popular with the fat lazy poor American, Uber will soon only appeal to the drunk obnoxious youth.


And computers were supposed to kill the typewriter business. Oh that's right, they did



tohunt4me said:


> How many years have i spoken of this ?
> 
> Once AGAIN
> PLEASE READ AGENDA 21 AND OBJECTIVES TO ELIMINATE PERSONAL VEHICLE OWNERSHIP GLOBALLY !
> ...


The House passed the self driving car bill today unanimously. Think about that, even the dems realize either we lead in SDC's or we let the Euros and Japan control the market


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> And computers were supposed to kill the typewriter business. Oh that's right, they did


And computers were going to kill the paper business when all the communications went electronic !


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> And computers were supposed to kill the typewriter business. Oh that's right, they did
> 
> The House passed the self driving car bill today unanimously. Think about that, even the dems realize either we lead in SDC's or we let the Euros and Japan control the market


Cursive writing is no longer being taught in schools

Soon

Your great grandchildren will be unable to READ the Declaration if Independence !


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> And computers were supposed to kill the typewriter business. Oh that's right, they did


Not really, isn't the keypad on your phone exactly like a typewriter keyboard? However the way most spelling is contained in some of these posts you would think that the keypads are all in a foreign language.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

UberProphet? said:


> And computers were going to kill the paper business when all the communications went electronic !


It hit the post office hard


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> Cursive writing is no longer being taught in schools
> 
> Soon
> 
> Your great grandchildren will be unable to READ the Declaration if Independence !


Soon is already here. Go ask any random high school kid "what is the Preamble?"


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Soon is already here. Go ask any random high school kid "what is the Preamble?"


there are tons of HS kids who have "graduated" without being able to read. the future is looking grim....


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Cursive writing is no longer being taught in schools
> 
> Soon
> 
> Your great grandchildren will be unable to READ the Declaration if Independence !


It has been digitalized already.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

And they said netflix and its ilk would kill cable and satellite? Oh, yeah, they are....

I can see for some urban people it would do this. As long as I am able to afford a vehicle I have a hard time thinking I wouldn't, but for those on the cusp I can see it makes sense at times not to bother with a car. If you live in a dicey area and can't afford anything but a crap box anyway, maybe you don't want to deal with it, so you do the bus sometimes and uber others and just forget the whole personal car thing.

I actually wrote my local school board to implore them to stop teaching my kids cursive writing. I received a positive response and, in parallel, they were already toning it back. I consider it a massive, rank waste of time and effort. Evidently most adults agree; we were all taught it and few of us can still do it. We saw no value in keeping that "skill". I can type over 100 WPM. When I write with a pen it looks like a kindergartener's work, and my hand cramps up after about 30 words.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> I actually wrote my local school board to implore them to stop teaching my kids...


And that is why parent's like me send their kids to private school !


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> Cursive writing is no longer being taught in schools
> 
> Soon
> 
> Your great grandchildren will be unable to READ the Declaration if Independence !


They'll just use those computers to scan the text and read it to them.


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

The low prices that many cheap people enjoy (especially garbage Pool passengers) won't last forever. Fares need to triple for Uber to start making reasonable profits or a profit in general. At that point car ownership will not decline as much as some unforward thinking analysts assume.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

UberProphet? said:


> And computers were going to kill the paper business when all the communications went electronic !


Some things are an evolution of freedom. The internet is one of those things. Uber and Lyft are not.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

WaveRunner1 said:


> The low prices that many cheap people enjoy (especially garbage Pool passengers) won't last forever. Fares need to triple for Uber to start making reasonable profits or a profit in general. At that point car ownership will not decline as much as some unforward thinking analysts assume.


I disagree. If Uber had any intention of raising fares, they already would have raised fares. So what are they waiting for? Answer: self driving cars.

From Forbes:

After about five years of active work, all the non Google watchers realized that faSDVs (fully automated self driving vehicles) were going to be real sooner than they thought
Companies finally understood that the real introduction of faSDVs was going to be in the early 2020s (and maybe even a bit earlier). There would be faSDVs on the streets in five years, not fifty-five years
Taxis: If you have access to faSDVs, you survive and make boatloads of money. And you will use some of this money to lower prices to drive your human driven competition out of business. If you don't have access to faSDVs, you can't compete. You become the dinosaur (extinct)

If you can't produce faSDVs, you go out of business. Really soon. Assuming 2020 is the date for initial volume delivery of faSDVs, any car company without a viable product by 2024 will be dead or walking dead
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/...-into-the-self-driving-car-race/#5681fa7e3fe5

Sorry to break it to you, but this is going to happen.


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> I disagree. If Uber had any intention of raising fares, they already would have raised fares. So what are they waiting for? Answer: self driving cars.
> 
> From Forbes:
> 
> ...


Sorry to break it to you but the reason fares are low is competition. Uber wants to kill Lyft but that looks less likely now. Everyone knows self driving cars are 10 years away. Uber wants to be Walmart but unlike Walmart it doesn't produce a profit. If Uber does not raise fares in coming years or billions in funding it will go bankrupt.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

WaveRunner1 said:


> Sorry to break it to you but the reason fares are low is competition. Uber wants to kill Lyft but that looks less likely now. Everyone knows self driving cars are 10 years away. Uber wants to be Walmart but unlike Walmart it doesn't produce a profit. If Uber does not raise fares in coming years or billions in funding it will go bankrupt.


Really, don't all businesses have competition? Uber has lost almost 3 billion each of the last 2 years. Is everyone at Uber stupid? How about all the investors? When do you expect Uber to raise fares in order to turn a profit. They are waiting for..... what?


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> It hit the post office hard


It also hit the paper industry hard.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

PrestonT said:


> It also hit the paper industry hard.


Computers decimated the newspaper industry


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Really, don't all businesses have competition? Uber has lost almost 3 billion each of the last 2 years. Is everyone at Uber stupid? How about all the investors? When do you expect Uber to raise fares in order to turn a profit. They are waiting for..... what?


Uber was the first major and was attempting to be the dominant. It is still growing at a fast pace but has hit major bumps from Lyft and overseas competitors. If they raise rates considerably now everyone will flock to Lyft so we are stuck with low rates for a while.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

WaveRunner1 said:


> Uber was the first major and was attempting to be the dominant. It is still growing at a fast pace but has hit major bumps from Lyft and overseas competitors. If they raise rates considerably now everyone will flock to Lyft so we are stuck with low rates for a while.


Untrue. Uber's only currency is market share. That's why they slashed fares 2 years ago, to build as large a customer base as possible. They knew they had no chance at winning the self driving car race.

If Uber doubled fares tomorrow Lyft would follow within 3 seconds. They're flushing money down the toilet as well. These people aren't idiots and there's a reason they and their investors are willing to sustain these levels of losses. Self driving cars.


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Untrue. Uber's only currency is market share. That's why they slashed fares 2 years ago, to build as large a customer base as possible. They knew they had no chance at winning the self driving car race.
> 
> If Uber doubled fares tomorrow Lyft would follow within 3 seconds. They're flushing money down the toilet as well. These people aren't idiots and there's a reason they and their investors are willing to sustain these levels of losses. Self driving cars.


I promise you a national roll out of full service self-driving cars is at least 10 years away. Will Uber survive at its current fare rate? No.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

WaveRunner1 said:


> I promise you a national roll out of full service self-driving cars is at least 10 years away. Will Uber survive at its current fare rate? No.


So when is Uber going to raise fares?


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> So when is Uber going to raise fares?


When the time is right. They may strike a backdoor deal with Lyft and agree to raise rates together. The two could be an oligarchy like Coke and Pepsi. But I believe low fares will stick around for a while as Uber continues to aggressively expand its user base. More than half of Americans haven't even heard of Uber yet. So the notion of it being cheap and convenient will continue to attract millions and once they are locked in Uber can steadily increase fares but I believe we are a few years away from that.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

WaveRunner1 said:


> When the time is right. They may strike a backdoor deal with Lyft and agree to raise rates together. The two could be an oligarchy like Coke and Pepsi. But I believe low fares will stick around for a while as Uber continues to aggressively expand its user base. More than half of Americans haven't even heard of Uber yet. So the notion of it being cheap and convenient will continue to attract millions and once they are locked in Uber can steadily increase fares but I believe we are a few years away from that.


So Uber's going to flush another 6 billion down the toilet waiting for just the right moment to spring the trap?


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> So Uber's going to flush another 6 billion down the toilet waiting for just the right moment to spring the trap?


What other option do they have? It is a tough business when drivers and company compete for profit from one source, the riders. Some would say nonviable really. Taxi drivers are really their own business and can set prices sometimes to their liking. Transport companies own their own fleet so they set prices. With Uber's model the gray area is so undefined and unresolved hence why we get unethical practices like the upfront fares scam. Drivers aren't exactly happy with low fares neither are shareholders but in the goal of attracting customers, it will stay put for a while. So self-drive cars will solve this problem. Only problem is by the time they are released, and it is a long way from now, Uber may not be able to compete with Google, Apple, Amazon, Ford, Toyota, BMW, etc.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

WaveRunner1 said:


> What other option do they have? It is a tough business when drivers and company compete for profit from one source, the riders. Some would say nonviable really. Taxi drivers are really their own business and can set prices sometimes to their liking. Transport companies own their own fleet so they set prices. With Uber's model the gray area is so undefined and unresolved hence why we get unethical practices like the upfront fares scam. Drivers aren't exactly happy with low fares neither are shareholders but in the goal of attracting customers, it will stay put for a while. So self-drive cars will solve this problem. Only problem is by the time they are released, and it is a long way from now, Uber may not be able to compete with Google, Apple, Amazon, Ford, Toyota, BMW, etc.


At this point they only have one option, using their large customer base to cut deals with auto makers and SDC companies to bring in SDC's. SDC taxis are already here with Google, GM, Uber and Lyft announced today a deal with Drive AI to start a their SDC taxi service. The House passed the SDC bill yesterday that allows 100,000 SDC's on the road this year.

These one hundred thousand SDC's are going into the above SDC taxi services, and they will charge for the trips. SDC taxi services are here this year.

Uber should have been profitable from day one. They were too cocky and tried to control the entire worldwide taxi market. Stupid move. They should have charged the same as taxis, they had a better product. Self driving cars caught Uber off guard just like everyone else. Two years ago is when it became clear SDC's were for real. Two years ago is also when Uber slashed fares to gain as many customers as possible. Because that's their only currency. Within two years current rideshare as we know it is extinct.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Investors may have lost money with Uber but it seems everyone who individually works for Uber is making a ton of money. Granted drivers do not work for Uber so they are on the side lines as well and really counted as an investor.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

heynow321 said:


> there are tons of HS kids who have "graduated" without being able to read. the future is looking grim....


That's because they don't want to.
We have lots of intelligent and highly skilled kids with great futures.
Hey, SOMEBODY has to dig ditches, wash dishes, mop floors and drive Uber cars. Don't need to read to do any of those jobs.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

It always puzzles me when I read that ride share is helping the traffic problem by reducing cars. As I sit in traffic jams daily trying to be patient as it takes me 20 minutes to drive one mile, that thought always comes to mind. There are just as many cars on the road and possible more. Yes, the paxs car is not there but mine car is taking its' place.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> I disagree. If Uber had any intention of raising fares, they already would have raised fares.


They already have. They've done it in such a way that people don't realize that they have. It's called up front pricing.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

KK2929 said:


> It always puzzles me when I read that ride share is helping the traffic problem by reducing cars. As I sit in traffic jams daily trying to be patient as it takes me 20 minutes to drive one mile, that thought always comes to mind. There are just as many cars on the road and possible more. Yes, the paxs car is not there but mine car is taking its' place.


Pool trips do reduce the number of vehicles on the road


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Talked to a city cop the other day, she tells me that DUI arrests have gone down 30% since Uber came to Redding a year ago.
Wonder how many saved lives that equates to.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Uberfunitis said:


> Pool trips do reduce the number of vehicles on the road


My pool trips are less than 10%
As for the DUI's that is a totally different area and the ride share has helped get the drunks off the road.

I'm just saying that I do not see any difference in the massive traffic problem. The car belonging to my pax may stay off the road but my car is replacing it.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

WaveRunner1 said:


> The low prices that many cheap people enjoy (especially garbage Pool passengers) won't last forever. Fares need to triple for Uber to start making reasonable profits or a profit in general..


Tripling fares would cause ridership to plummet, and new competitors to emerge.

It would not necessarily mean any more revenue for Uber, much less a substantial greater revenue.

I don't think Uber sees that as in its short term future, they are still advertising for new partners



UberBastid said:


> Talked to a city cop the other day, she tells me that DUI arrests have gone down 30% since Uber came to Redding a year ago.
> Wonder how many saved lives that equates to.


Maybe none. How many DUI deaths occurred last year in Redding?

DUI arrests isn't the same as DUI occurrence, or DUI deaths. Redding's finest may have been given different priorities this year.


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## empresstabitha (Aug 25, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> How many years have i spoken of this ?
> 
> Once AGAIN
> PLEASE READ AGENDA 21 AND OBJECTIVES TO ELIMINATE PERSONAL VEHICLE OWNERSHIP GLOBALLY !
> ...


Seek help


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> They already have. They've done it in such a way that people don't realize that they have. It's called up front pricing.


Upfront pricing is tinkering around the edges and actually will hurt their bottom line cause it makes it less attractive for drivers. Which leads to more turnover. Uber is still on pace to lose almost 3 billion this year. There are only two possibilities: 1. They're dumb. 2. They're growing their customer base for self driving cars.



I_Like_Spam said:


> Tripling fares would cause ridership to plummet, and new competitors to emerge.
> 
> It would not necessarily mean any more revenue for Uber, much less a substantial greater revenue.
> 
> I don't think Uber sees that as in its short term future, they are still advertising for new partners


This is true. The Uber app does not protect Uber from competition, it's easy to duplicate. The only thing keeping the competition from entering the market are the billions in losses Uber is willing to endure. If Uber tripled fares they would have a flood of new competitors immediately. And taxi companies take back some of the market. That's why Uber is keeping fares criminally low, to hold of competitors while gaining market share for self driving cars.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> I can see for some urban people it would do this. As long as I am able to afford a vehicle I have a hard time thinking I wouldn't, but for those on the cusp I can see it makes sense at times not to bother with a car. If you live in a dicey area and can't afford anything but a crap box anyway, maybe you don't want to deal with it, so you do the bus sometimes and uber others and just forget the whole personal car thing.


On the positive side - You are a young, urban, metrosexual millenial who has decided that you really don't need a personal vehicle, because Uber and Lyft provide reliable transportation services in your area. You use these rideshare services exclusively for transportation around the city you live in, and feel proud of yourself for helping to contribute to reducing traffic.

On the negative side - The city you live in is Miami, Florida. A category 5 hurricane is less than 48 hours away from making landfall, and there are absolutely NO Uber and Lyft drivers on the road. You are going to face significant problems trying to evacuate due to your lack of personal transportation.

Welcome to reality.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Spotscat said:


> On the positive side - You are a young, urban, metrosexual millenial who has decided that you really don't need a personal vehicle, because Uber and Lyft provide reliable transportation services in your area. You use these rideshare services exclusively for transportation around the city you live in, and feel proud of yourself for helping to contribute to reducing traffic.
> 
> On the negative side - The city you live in is Miami, Florida. A category 5 hurricane is less than 48 hours away from making landfall, and there are absolutely NO Uber and Lyft drivers on the road. You are going to face significant problems trying to evacuate due to your lack of personal transportation.
> 
> Welcome to reality.


greyhound or train or even airport..... you could not wait till the last moment but there are still many options to evacuate without having personal transportation.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Spotscat said:


> On the negative side - The city you live in is Miami, Florida. A category 5 hurricane is less than 48 hours away from making landfall, and there are absolutely NO Uber and Lyft drivers on the road. You are going to face significant problems trying to evacuate due to your lack of personal transportation..


How often does this kind of event occur? You can stay in a shelter with the urban, car-less masses, and although inconvenient, you should survive


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

I_Like_Spam said:


> How often does this kind of event occur? You can stay in a shelter with the urban, car-less masses, and although inconvenient, you should survive


According to the National Weather Service --

"On average, the center of a hurricane has passed within 50 miles of any point in South Florida about every 6 to 8 years. This means that while hurricane strikes are not a yearly occurrence, statistics indicate that close calls such as Hurricane Matthew can occur a few times a decade, with direct strikes at least once a decade. Indirect hurricane impacts as well as tropical storms passing over south Florida occur with higher frequency; at least every 2 or 3 years on average."

Stay in a shelter? Seriously? Do you remember the stories coming out of New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina?



Uberfunitis said:


> greyhound or train or even airport..... you could not wait till the last moment but there are still many options to evacuate without having personal transportation.


Sure you can! You can save yourself, maybe the dog or cat, and a few personal possessions. But you aren't going to be able to take anywhere near the amount of personal belongings on a plane, train, or bus that you will be able to if you have your own personal means of transportation.


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## 45821 (Feb 15, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> I disagree. If Uber had any intention of raising fares, they already would have raised fares. So what are they waiting for? Answer: self driving cars.
> 
> From Forbes:
> 
> ...


Tomatopaste, have you ever heard of "product dumping"?


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Spotscat said:


> Sure you can! You can save yourself, maybe the dog or cat, and a few personal possessions. But you aren't going to be able to take anywhere near the amount of personal belongings on a plane, train, or bus that you will be able to if you have your own personal means of transportation.


Possessions can be replaced, that is what insurance is for.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

6


Bon Jovi said:


> Tomatopaste, have you ever heard of "product dumping"?


You mean like Uber is doing? Selling a product at a loss to wipe out the competition, then raise the price when you have a monopoly? That one?


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> I disagree. If Uber had any intention of raising fares, they already would have raised fares. So what are they waiting for? Answer: self driving cars.
> 
> From Forbes:
> 
> ...


A SDV wouldn't be able to handle my dirt road. SDV traps can be made with a gallon of white paint, a brush, and two minutes of time.



Spotscat said:


> On the positive side - You are a young, urban, metrosexual millenial who has decided that you really don't need a personal vehicle, because Uber and Lyft provide reliable transportation services in your area. You use these rideshare services exclusively for transportation around the city you live in, and feel proud of yourself for helping to contribute to reducing traffic.
> 
> On the negative side - The city you live in is Miami, Florida. A category 5 hurricane is less than 48 hours away from making landfall, and there are absolutely NO Uber and Lyft drivers on the road. You are going to face significant problems trying to evacuate due to your lack of personal transportation.
> 
> Welcome to reality.


Using Uber actually increases traffic. Your personal Car carries you from point A to B. An Uber travels from wherever it is, to you (C to A), then A to B


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Spotscat said:


> Stay in a shelter? Seriously? Do you remember the stories coming out of New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina?
> 
> .


Unfortunately, yes I do remember those stories.

But the facts are that the vast majority of the folks who went through Katrina in a shelter lived to tell about it. And hopefully,the government in Florida is a lot better than Louisiana's in 2005


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

Uberfunitis said:


> Possessions can be replaced, that is what insurance is for.


Some possessions can be replaced. Other items may very well be irreplaceable - family heirlooms, pictures, etc...


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Rat said:


> A SDV wouldn't be able to handle my dirt road. SDV traps can be made with a gallon of white paint, a brush, and two minutes of time.





Rat said:


> A SDV wouldn't be able to handle my dirt road


Man Google is going to be so pissed. Billions down the toilet cause they didn't take into account Rat's dirt road.



Rat said:


> . SDV traps can be made with a gallon of white paint, a brush, and two minutes of time.


Moderators, please charge Rat $20 for saying stupid stuff. Thanks.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Unfortunately, yes I do remember those stories.
> 
> But the facts are that the vast majority of the folks who went through Katrina in a shelter lived to tell about it. And hopefully,the government in Florida is a lot better than Louisiana's in 2005


As I write this, FEMA is stating that depending upon the path of hurricane Irma, that parts of the Overseas Highway (US-1) going from Key Largo to Key West may be destroyed.

While the vast majority of people of this area will probably survive the hurricane, I'm sure that being cut off from civilization is something that most people would not willingly subject themselves to.

My point is this - once you give up your means of personal transport, you've become reliant upon the system to provide transportation for you, instead of being self-reliant.


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## Uberfunitis (Oct 21, 2016)

Spotscat said:


> My point is this - once you give up your means of personal transport, you've become reliant upon the system to provide transportation for you, instead of being self-reliant.


Even with your own personal transport you are not self reliant, you still are reliant on the system to provide transportation for you. Without that system you do not have bridges, roads, or gas that is reliably there. Regardless if you have your own vehicle or not you are still dependent on the "system" working or that vehicle is next to useless.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> These people aren't idiots


I sometimes wonder.

The investors are just throwing money in praying they just break even.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

New2This said:


> I sometimes wonder.
> 
> The investors are just throwing money in praying they just break even.


They're not. These are institutional investors, they're not stupid.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

New2This said:


> I sometimes wonder.
> 
> The investors are just throwing money in praying they just break even.


When you are talking about the Uber investors, its not a publicly issued security, its really tough to guess what Mr. Kalanick told them when he made his pitch for cash.

A lot of new ventures are very risky, if the stand a 1 in 20 chance of a 5000% return on their money, that's a great deal.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> They're not. These are institutional investors, they're not stupid.


They got suckered by Travis. Happens to the best of them. See Bernie Madoff


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

New2This said:


> They got suckered by Travis. Happens to the best of them. See Bernie Madoff


The initial investors were investing in rideshare which made sense. All the current money coming in is because of SDC's. Without the SDC's Uber would already be **** up.


----------



## AvengingxxAngel (Jan 5, 2017)

Hasn't Uber had a drop in losses and an increase in profit over the last year and a half? And they get 20% of China's rideshare market, just to stay out of China.


----------



## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

tomatopaste said:


> The initial investors were investing in rideshare which made sense. All the current money coming in is because of SDC's. Without the SDC's Uber would already be **** up.


When the initial investors invested their money there was no Rideshare, it was Town Cars and Uber black only.


----------



## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Really, don't all businesses have competition? Uber has lost almost 3 billion each of the last 2 years. Is everyone at Uber stupid? How about all the investors? When do you expect Uber to raise fares in order to turn a profit. They are waiting for..... what?


I think it will be a part of the 180 of change,our I hope it will be.What the point of the 180 of change without a pay increase.Tipping not going to make up for low fares.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

KMANDERSON said:


> I think it will be a part of the 180 of change,our I hope it will be.What the point of the 180 of change without a pay increase.Tipping not going to make up for low fares.


The 180 days is, and always was total bs. They bought themselves 6 months from having drivers storm the castle as they try to keep the lid on. Why dribble it out over 6 months? To buy time.



UberProphet? said:


> When the initial investors invested their money there was no Rideshare, it was Town Cars and Uber black only.


The concept was the same. Town Car, Black, X, it's all the same.


----------



## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

WaveRunner1 said:


> The low prices that many cheap people enjoy (especially garbage Pool passengers) won't last forever. Fares need to triple for Uber to start making reasonable profits or a profit in general. At that point car ownership will not decline as much as some unforward thinking analysts assume.


Uber does not need to raise prices to make a profit they need to stop pouring money down research projects like self-driving cars and flying cars. The average booking fee across the country is a dollar 65 and the average cut on a minimum ride is around a dollar 5.5 million rides per day 365 days a year at a minimum gross of $2.50 a ride. they have a gross of five billion dollars a year or more assuming that every ride is a minimum. I don't understand how come they're not profitable unless they're just pouring money into pointless research projects. Do you really think that Uber is going to be the group that brings a self-driving car to the market when it doesn't even own a car manufacturing facility? Even if self-driving cars become a major thing in the next 5 to 8 years I don't think they will replace us because it's hard enough for us as thinking human beings to find our customers half of the time how unearth is a car going to call the customer and ask them what business they're standing in front of or what intersection they're actually standing at?


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

garyk said:


> Uber does not need to raise prices to make a profit they need to stop pouring money down research projects like self-driving cars and flying cars. The average booking fee across the country is a dollar 65 and the average cut on a minimum ride is around a dollar 5.5 million rides per day 365 days a year at a minimum gross of $2.50 a ride. they have a gross of five billion dollars a year or more assuming that every ride is a minimum. I don't understand how come they're not profitable unless they're just pouring money into pointless research projects. Do you really think that Uber is going to be the group that brings a self-driving car to the market when it doesn't even own a car manufacturing facility? Even if self-driving cars become a major thing in the next 5 to 8 years I don't think they will replace us because it's hard enough for us as thinking human beings to find our customers half of the time how unearth is a car going to call the customer and ask them what business they're standing in front of or what intersection they're actually standing at?


Uber loses 3 billion a year because they are not paying drivers enough to maintain a steady driver pool. They are subsidizing pax rides with promos, bonuses and cheap fares.

Uber is not calling the shots. Self driving taxis will happen regardless of Uber. Rideshare as we know it is extinct within two years.


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> Man Google is going to be so pissed. Billions down the toilet cause they didn't take into account Rat's dirt road.
> 
> Moderators, please charge Rat $20 for saying stupid stuff. Thanks.


So you are unaware of the simply made SDV traps that confuse and confound their simple electronic brains?



AvengingxxAngel said:


> Hasn't Uber had a drop in losses and an increase in profit over the last year and a half? And they get 20% of China's rideshare market, just to stay out of China.


They haven't had a profit at all, let alone an increase. The Chinese likely will not pay Uber anything. Uber's only recourse is the Chinese court. Good luck with that. They've already lost $1.5 billion this year


----------



## AvengingxxAngel (Jan 5, 2017)

Rat said:


> So you are unaware of the simply made SDV traps that confuse and confound their simple electronic brains?
> 
> They haven't had a profit at all, let alone an increase. The Chinese likely will not pay Uber anything. Uber's only recourse is the Chinese court. Good luck with that. They've already lost $1.5 billion this year


http://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com.au/2017/06/ubers-bad-week-doomsday-scenario-or.html?m=1
According to this blog, if the information is true, Uber has had a small profit increase

I can't see Uber raising fares either, people use the service cause it's cheap. I'm sure people would switch to a different rideshare company just to save a few dollars. That's not good for Uber. They'd likely cut back on expenses instead.


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

AvengingxxAngel said:


> http://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com.au/2017/06/ubers-bad-week-doomsday-scenario-or.html?m=1
> According to this blog, if the information is true, Uber has had a small profit increase
> 
> I can't see Uber raising fares either, people use the service cause it's cheap. I'm sure people would switch to a different rideshare company just to save a few dollars. That's not good for Uber. They'd likely cut back on expenses instead.


Uber had an increase in revenue, not profit. They have yet to make any profit


----------



## GasHealthTimeCosts (Jul 24, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> And McDonalds was suppose to kill the restaurant business back in the late 60's early 70's. Just like customers became sick of McDonalds ever declining quality of food pax will get fed up with angry drivers, being cancelled on, paying surge and lack of vehicular freedom.
> Just like McDonalds is now only popular with the fat lazy poor American, Uber will soon only appeal to the drunk obnoxious youth.


Comparing Mcdonalds and restaurants to transportation and ride hailing makes no sense

It's also cute how everyone mentions Uber not making money when they really have no clue what the books are for this private entity.


----------



## AvengingxxAngel (Jan 5, 2017)

Rat said:


> Uber had an increase in revenue, not profit. They have yet to make any profit


Increase in profit and drop in losses. The revenue information shows this going by the economic statistics in the blog, that is, if the information is correct of course.


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

AvengingxxAngel said:


> http://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com.au/2017/06/ubers-bad-week-doomsday-scenario-or.html?m=1
> According to this blog, if the information is true, Uber has had a small profit increase
> 
> I can't see Uber raising fares either, people use the service cause it's cheap. I'm sure people would switch to a different rideshare company just to save a few dollars. That's not good for Uber. They'd likely cut back on expenses instead.


Buy or leasing all those SDVs will be a huge expense


----------



## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> And computers were supposed to kill the typewriter business. Oh that's right, they did
> 
> The House passed the self driving car bill today unanimously. Think about that, even the dems realize either we lead in SDC's or we let the Euros and Japan control the market





tomatopaste said:


> I'm aware you're the gullible type that doesn't like to spend time educating himself if there's a chance it might not conform to his preconceived notions.


So in our last encounter you werr sure uber will not realize the sdc pipedream but somome else will. What are the implications of this? Why cant a giant bahemoth like uber do it while some other "tech firm" can?. I dont think anyone can. I think the transportation of humans will always be a fragmented business with many players.


----------



## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

Rat said:


> Buy or leasing all those SDVs will be a huge expense


Buying or leasing the cars is the least of the expense.

SDC's will need a yard to go to, inspectors to inspect them, mechanics to fix them, persons to wash them, persons to fuels them and persons to manage them. And my county will require at least 3 or 4 yards like this. Maybe more. And how much will that cost? 2 or 3 or 4 or ??? in manhattan alone. I shudder at the thought of those megabucks of necessary investment all over america. Who could do this?

Oh yes, they're called dealerships and Ford already has thousands of them across America. As does GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Volvo and others too.

As Carl Sagan would say "Billions and Billions and Billions and Billions" of dollars.


----------



## Michael1230nj (Jun 23, 2017)

Why is it that everyone concedes that Uber will benefit from Automated Cars? When cars Drive themselves who needs Uber?


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Rat said:


> Buy or leasing all those SDVs will be a huge expense
> 
> So rather than make an intelligent response to my statement, you insult me in a manner that indicates you usually assume anyone who says anything you don't want to hear is wrong. You will always be a self-absorbed asshole.


I and others have explained ad nauseam that self driving cars don't rely on signs or lane markings. I'm am going to post this 2 minute video once again that explains clear as day how the onboard 3D map that self driving cars use, functions. 






Michael1230nj said:


> Why is it that everyone concedes that Uber will benefit from Automated Cars? When cars Drive themselves who needs Uber?


Valid point. But what what is Uber? Uber is a taxi service. At this point it's cheaper to own your own car than hiring a taxi to take you everywhere due to the cost of the driver. However if you can eliminate the driver it becomes cheaper to subscribe to a self driving taxi service because you aren't paying for ownership of a car that gets used only 4 percent of the time.

There will be self driving taxi companies, whether Uber can use their large customer base as a bargaining chip to get car manufactures and SDC software companies to partner with them, is yet to be seen.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Fubernuber said:


> Be honest. If uber told you to get driven by an 8" *****, you would consider it. At the very least you would call them open minded.
> 
> So in our last encounter you werr sure uber will not realize the sdc pipedream but somome else will. What are the implications of this? Why cant a giant bahemoth like uber do it while some other "tech firm" can?. I dont think anyone can. I think the transportation of humans will always be a fragmented business with many players.


Because Uber is only a behemoth on paper. Google on the other hand spends billions a year on "moon shot" projects like self driving cars with the hope 1 in 100 will pan out. Self driving cars panned out. Google sped up self driving cars by 20 yrs with their initial investment. I don't agree with Google politically but I take my hat off to them on what they've been able to accomplish.

But even Google knows they don't have the wherewithal to go it alone. They have partnered with Chrysler, Avis, Lyft, among others. Uber has never made a dime in profits, Intel has made billions. Yet even Intel has partnered with Chrysler, BMW, Mobileye and bought 'Here' digital map company, for 15 billion. You'll notice many of these partnerships overlap. The stakes are huge. But that's also why Uber still has value. Their ready made huge customer base is attractive.


----------



## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

Uberfungus said:


> Even with your own personal transport you are not self reliant, you still are reliant on the system to provide transportation for you. Without that system you do not have bridges, roads, or gas that is reliably there. Regardless if you have your own vehicle or not you are still dependent on the "system" working or that vehicle is next to useless.


"The system" that you speak of is called "infrastructure" and is there for all - POV's, taxi's, limo's, buses, etc. The system isn't providing me transportation, the system is providing the infrastructure - the support system - that enables me to go where I want. If that infrastructure collapses, then motor vehicle transportation stops.

If I have a POV, I am self-reliant - I can go where I want, when I want, with whom I want, and carry what I want. If I am evacuating Florida, I can go to anywhere my four wheels will carry me - unless that area is being evacuated as well. Without a POV, I am dependent upon "the system" to provide for me - they dictate where I am being evacuated to, what I can and cannot take with me, who I will ride with, and whether I may or may not have to wait for transport.


----------



## mKat (May 19, 2016)

MHR said:


> http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-and-lyft-limit-personal-car-use-study-2017-8
> 
> Ride-hailing giants have said for years that their services will start to kill car ownership by giving urban dwellers a cheaper and more efficient way of getting around.
> 
> ...


Inkjet and color lasers were going to kill print shops. The Internet was going to kill real estate agents and new car salesmen. Nobody loved print shops and they survived. Nobody loved real estate agents or car salesmen and they survived. But most people LOVE their cars and they LOVE driving. There's a very personal, passionate connection between people and their rides. Only super-nerd pocket protector dweebs -revenge of the nerds types- will buy into this BS about car ownership going away.

Uber is a low-class, dumpy way to get around. Only intoxicated kids think it's the bomb. Nobody or no robot is going to take a man's Caddy ATS-V pride of ownership and driving experience away from him anytime soon (or ever), trust me.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

mKat said:


> Inkjet and color lasers were going to kill print shops. The Internet was going to kill real estate agents and new car salesmen. Nobody loved print shops and they survived. Nobody loved real estate agents or car salesmen and they survived. But most people LOVE their cars and they LOVE driving. There's a very personal, passionate connection between people and their rides. Only super-nerd pocket protector dweebs -revenge of the nerds types- will buy into this BS about car ownership going away.
> 
> Uber is a low-class, dumpy way to get around. Only intoxicated kids think it's the bomb. Nobody or no robot is going to take a man's Caddy ATS-V pride of ownership and driving experience away from him anytime soon (or ever), trust me.


About a month ago I had to go to the local Ford dealer to order a part for my Navigator. On the showroom floor they had a 2016 Shelby GT350R - white with blue stripes. They had just got it in that Monday, and MSRP on it was about $66,000, but because it was such a limited edition vehicle (1 of less than 100 made in that particular configuration) the dealer had jacked the price up to $98,000.

Two days later when I went back to pickup the part I had ordered, it was gone. Sold.

You're exactly right - to some people a vehicle is a utilitarian possession, with no more meaning to them than a paper plate has.

But to others...


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## mKat (May 19, 2016)

Spotscat said:


> About a month ago I had to go to the local Ford dealer to order a part for my Navigator. On the showroom floor they had a 2016 Shelby GT350R - white with blue stripes. They had just got it in that Monday, and MSRP on it was about $66,000, but because it was such a limited edition vehicle (1 of less than 100 made in that particular configuration) the dealer had jacked the price up to $98,000.
> 
> Two days later when I went back to pickup the part I had ordered, it was gone. Sold.
> 
> ...


I know the exact machine. Drove one briefly last summer at a race shop in my home town, exact same color and stripes! Just gorgeous.

BTW, here in Canada that particular car is apparently $150,000 CAD, so about $125,000 USD. We get ripped off up here lol


----------



## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

A personal vehicle means freedom. Not just freedom to hit the open road on a whim. I don't think our upcoming generations really realize that.


----------



## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Cursive writing is no longer being taught in schools
> 
> Soon
> 
> Your great grandchildren will be unable to READ the Declaration if Independence !


Do u remember when NPR tweeted the DoI this July 4th, many Trump supporters got angry at them for hinting at a revolution, cuz many people hadn't ever read it anyways. I have, but not the original document. U can read it digitally. It holds up."It has been shewn" that we can read without cursive. The original is like a museum piece now, not a document for everyone to read. And I can barely read my own cursive unless I write slower, and I can just print at that speed. Anything important gets typed now. We don't need cursive. I wish they had shown us computer languages instead of all those cursive excercises.
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Strange Fruit said:


> Do u remember when NPR tweeted the DoI this July 4th, many Trump supporters got angry at them for hinting at a revolution, cuz many people hadn't ever read it anyways. I have, but not the original document. U can read it digitally. It holds up."It has been shewn" that we can read without cursive. The original is like a museum piece now, not a document for everyone to read. And I can barely read my own cursive unless I write slower, and I can just print at that speed. Anything important gets typed now. We don't need cursive. I wish they had shown us computer languages instead of all those cursive excercises.
> The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs.


The corporate media owners are re writing the bible.
The N.I.V. Bible.
Slowly, both the Bible and the constitution will be changed.

Slowly they Corrupt EVERYTHING.


----------



## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

MHR said:


> A personal vehicle means freedom. Not just freedom to hit the open road on a whim. I don't think our upcoming generations really realize that.


It's not just the freedom of being to go where you want when you want, it's also the sheer FUN of driving!

The Tail of The Dragon near Deals Gap, North Carolina -- 318 curves in 11 miles. Motorcyclists and sports car enthusiasts come from around the world to drive this section of US-129.

Lombard Street in the Russian Hill neighborhood of San Francisco - 8 hairpin turns in one city block, with a 27% grade.

Transiting one of these sections of road in a self-driving vehicle is little more than an amusement park ride. Where's the fun, the excitement, the pure joy that comes from being able to successfully pilot a vehicle through them?

That's what I think the self-driving vehicle proponents don't quite understand - that for many people, driving isn't just about transportation, it's about the fun and the thrill!

The fun that comes from picking the perfect line through a curve and feeling the vehicle respond to your commands.

The thrill that comes from nailing the 2-3 shift perfectly, and feeling 400 horsepower from GM's engine push you back in the seat as you accelerate to over 85 mph.

The enjoyment that comes from making a perfect downshift - heel and toe on the brakes and gas, and the left foot on the clutch.

A self-driving car will be like riding the bus - it may get you where you want to go, but it won't be as much fun as a ragtop SS Camaro.

One last comment - There are a lot of terms that can be used to describe self-driving vehicles. I don't think "chick magnet" will ever be one of them.


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> I and others have explained ad nauseam that self driving cars don't rely on signs or lane markings. I'm am going to post this 2 minute video once again that explains clear as day how the onboard 3D map that self driving cars use, functions.


Repeating yourself doesn't improve the accuracy of your claim. A sales pitch is your evidence? Note that it nowhere says it doesn't follow lane markings


----------



## RipCityWezay (May 12, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Cursive writing is no longer being taught in schools
> 
> Soon
> 
> Your great grandchildren will be unable to READ the Declaration if Independence !


Lol we can't read it now Bruh, plus it's fake news.


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Strange Fruit said:


> Do u remember when NPR tweeted the DoI this July 4th, many Trump supporters got angry at them for hinting at a revolution, cuz many people hadn't ever read it anyways. I have, but not the original document. U can read it digitally. It holds up."It has been shewn" that we can read without cursive. The original is like a museum piece now, not a document for everyone to read. And I can barely read my own cursive unless I write slower, and I can just print at that speed. Anything important gets typed now. We don't need cursive. I wish they had shown us computer languages instead of all those cursive excercises.
> The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs.


Like you speak for Trump supporters. You tell them what they think?


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Rat said:


> Repeating yourself doesn't improve the accuracy of your claim. A sales pitch is your evidence? Note that it nowhere says it doesn't follow lane markings


1:02 of the video: "the second element in the map layer is the localization model which helps the vehicle to find its exact position in the lane it's driving in."

You'll notice in the video the car is referencing landmarks on the side of the road (light posts, signs, buildings, trees) about 20 different landmarks every second. It's not looking at the lane markings. Now does it make sense? Glad I could help.


----------



## Arb Watson (Apr 6, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> And McDonalds was suppose to kill the restaurant business back in the late 60's early 70's. Just like customers became sick of McDonalds ever declining quality of food pax will get fed up with angry drivers, being cancelled on, paying surge and lack of vehicular freedom.
> Just like McDonalds is now only popular with the fat lazy poor American, Uber will soon only appeal to the drunk obnoxious youth.


cute...but you are dead wrong about the population mix that goes to mcdonalds.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Arb Watson said:


> cute...but you are dead wrong about the population mix that goes to mcdonalds.


Huh? Who fine dines at McDonalds in your city? 30% of America is obese. Almost half of all inner city/low income children are overweight. The other half are skinny and strung out on drugs.


----------



## KellyC (May 8, 2017)

MHR said:


> http://www.businessinsider.com/uber-and-lyft-limit-personal-car-use-study-2017-8
> 
> Ride-hailing giants have said for years that their services will start to kill car ownership by giving urban dwellers a cheaper and more efficient way of getting around.
> 
> ...


Incorrect; everyone will still own a car because everyone is an Uber/Lyft driver


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> 1:02 of the video: "the second element in the map layer is the localization model which helps the vehicle to find its exact position in the lane it's driving in."
> 
> You'll notice in the video the car is referencing landmarks on the side of the road (light posts, signs, buildings, trees) about 20 different landmarks every second. It's not looking at the lane markings. Now does it make sense? Glad I could help.


Once again, a commercial that isn't saying what you think it does. Nowhere does it say it doesn't use lane markings. Repeatedly saying it does doesn't change that.


----------



## 45821 (Feb 15, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> 6
> 
> You mean like Uber is doing? Selling a product at a loss to wipe out the competition, then raise the price when you have a monopoly? That one?


Aha, that one.


----------



## GriffBetterPtkfgs (Feb 18, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> How many years have i spoken of this ?
> 
> Once AGAIN
> PLEASE READ AGENDA 21 AND OBJECTIVES TO ELIMINATE PERSONAL VEHICLE OWNERSHIP GLOBALLY !
> ...


We have one that can see... you speak the truth. I've often say this uber/lyft is all about major consolidation of wealth and the industry into the hands of a few people.



empresstabitha said:


> Seek help


Stay simple darling.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Rat said:


> Repeating yourself doesn't improve the accuracy of your claim. A sales pitch is your evidence? Note that it nowhere says it doesn't follow lane markings


"our software matches what the car sees in real-time with the maps we've already built, allowing the car to know its position on the road to within 10cm of accuracy. That means we don't have to rely on GPS technology, or a single point of data such as lane markings, to navigate the streets."

https://medium.com/waymo/building-maps-for-a-self-driving-car-723b4d9cd3f4


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

empresstabitha said:


> Seek help


Read United Nations Agenda 21 Guidelines and Implementation Directives.
Then get back to me.

I am seeking help by raising awareness.
( help to stop this assault on freedom)
What are You doing ?

If You arent part of the Solution
Then You are part of the problem.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> Cursive writing is no longer being taught in schools
> 
> Soon
> 
> Your great grandchildren will be unable to READ the Declaration if Independence !


And just how well do you read greek?


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> And just how well do you read greek?


About as well as Heiroglyph and Cuniform.
Lost Knowledge.
Except by those who control it.

The " High Priests" will tell you what to think it means . . . .

And therein lies the true danger.


----------



## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> "our software matches what the car sees in real-time with the maps we've already built, allowing the car to know its position on the road to within 10cm of accuracy. That means we don't have to rely on GPS technology, or a single point of data such as lane markings, to navigate the streets."
> 
> https://medium.com/waymo/building-maps-for-a-self-driving-car-723b4d9cd3f4


Living here in an area that is a combination of urban and rural areas, I encounter a variety of driving conditions.

It will be interesting to see how a self-driving vehicle handles a driveway to a country house that looks like this (if it can).


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> "our software matches what the car sees in real-time with the maps we've already built, allowing the car to know its position on the road to within 10cm of accuracy. That means we don't have to rely on GPS technology, or a single point of data such as lane markings, to navigate the streets."
> 
> https://medium.com/waymo/building-maps-for-a-self-driving-car-723b4d9cd3f4


Still doesn't say it doesn't use lane markings. Says it's not limited to one data point. I think you may mentally challenged.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Rat said:


> Still doesn't say it doesn't use lane markings. Says it's not limited to one data point. I think you may mentally challenged.


" Blinded by Science".

Which is what happens when you Tout the idealism without considering the repercussion.

Remember : all Revolutions are " "wonderful" until the "vehicle" is. Built
And the true driver takes his seat.
Then you will be taken in a direction you have not considered.


----------



## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Spotscat said:


> Living here in an area that is a combination of urban and rural areas, I encounter a variety of driving conditions.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how a self-driving vehicle handles a driveway to a country house that looks like this (if it can).
> 
> View attachment 157065


Better than any human could ever hope to do. It will triangulate itself using the trees and fence posts and know exactly where the road is even if snow covered. It will compare what its sensors see to the onboard 3D map, allowing the car to know its position on the road to within 10cm of accuracy.

Humans don't have an onboard 3D map capable of knowing their position to within 10cm's of accuracy. Of course there's always the possibility we'll evolve to have that capability within the next 3 billion years though.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

tomatopaste said:


> Better than any human could ever hope to do. It will triangulate itself using the trees and fence posts and know exactly where the road is even if snow covered. It will compare what its sensors see to the onboard 3D map, allowing the car to know its position on the road to within 10cm of accuracy.
> 
> Humans don't have an onboard 3D map capable of knowing their position to within 10cm's of accuracy. Of course there's always the possibility we'll evolve to have that capability within the next 3 billion years though.


Will that work as well as Uber app. Navigation ?


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> Better than any human could ever hope to do. It will triangulate itself using the trees and fence posts and know exactly where the road is even if snow covered. It will compare what its sensors see to the onboard 3D map, allowing the car to know its position on the road to within 10cm of accuracy.
> 
> Humans don't have an onboard 3D map capable of knowing their position to within 10cm's of accuracy. Of course there's always the possibility we'll evolve to have that capability within the next 3 billion years though.


Except it won't have a map of a private driveway, trees get cut down and planted, fences moved and put up. Technology is grand, except when it isn't


----------



## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

Rat said:


> Except it won't have a map of a private driveway, trees get cut down and planted, fences moved and put up. Technology is grand, except when it isn't


You beat me to it!



> "our software matches what the car sees in real-time* with the maps we've already built, *allowing the car to know its position on the road to within 10cm of accuracy. That means we don't have to rely on GPS technology, or a single point of data such as lane markings, to navigate...


But if there isn't an already existing map, then...?

I just hope my self-driving vehicle works as well as this wonderful piece of technology from the fine folks at Omni Consumer Products!


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Spotscat said:


> You beat me to it!
> 
> But if there isn't an already existing map, then...?


Perhaps service sheep dogs will be trained to detain S.D.C.'s.

One good dog could corral a dozen a day.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Rat said:


> Except it won't have a map of a private driveway, trees get cut down and planted, fences moved and put up. Technology is grand, except when it isn't


It will. Every self driving car


Rat said:


> Except it won't have a map of a private driveway, trees get cut down and planted, fences moved and put up. Technology is grand, except when it isn't


Incorrect. It will have a 3D map of every private driveway, trees cut down, etc.

_Of course our streets are ever-changing, so our cars need to be able to recognize new conditions and make adjustments in real-time. For example, we can detect signs of construction (orange cones, workmen in vests, etc.) and understand that we may have to merge to bypass a closed lane, or that other road users may behave differently.

To keep our maps up-to-date, our cars automatically send reports back to our mapping team whenever they detect changes like these. The team can then quickly update the map and share information with the whole autonomous fleet._

https://medium.com/waymo/building-maps-for-a-self-driving-car-723b4d9cd3f4​
​


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> It will. Every self driving car
> 
> Incorrect. It will have a 3D map of every private driveway, trees cut down, etc.
> 
> ...


You keep posting drivel as if it somehow proves your point. Didn't even mention private driveways


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Rat said:


> You keep posting drivel as if it somehow proves your point. Didn't even mention private driveways


Sparky, you have a gift of arguing the most trivial inane points to try to prove your arguments. If a self driving car encounters your private driveway and it's not already mapped, it maps the driveway in real time. Then from that point til the second coming of Christ, the driveway is mapped. Jesus Christ will then be in charge of all mapping.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> Sparky, you have a gift of arguing the most trivial inane points to try to prove your arguments. If a self driving car encounters your private driveway and it's not already mapped, it maps the driveway in real time. Then from that point til the second coming of Christ, the driveway is mapped. Jesus Christ will then be in charge of all mapping.


You keep quoting an advertising video for a product that isn't even on the market, claiming it says something it doesn't. Then claim a map that doesn't exist yet will guide it in the present. You want to pretend giant holes in your theory are "trivial".


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Sparky, you have a gift of arguing the most trivial inane points to try to prove your arguments. If a self driving car encounters your private driveway and it's not already mapped, it maps the driveway in real time. Then from that point til the second coming of Christ, the driveway is mapped. Jesus Christ will then be in charge of all mapping.


But if the driveway isn't mapped, then how is it going to "...triangulate itself using the trees and fence posts and know exactly where the road is even if snow covered."?

If there is no onboard map, then the self-driving vehicle won't be able to "...compare what its sensors see to the onboard 3D map, allowing the car to know its position on the road to within 10cm of accuracy" because it doesn't have a frame of reference.

In my town there are new subdivisions being built, some so new that even though there are families living in new houses, Google Maps, Google Earth, Mapquest, Waze, or any other mapping program don't have the streets listed as of yet.

What will the self-driving vehicle do when it encounters this situation? It won't have an onboard map to reference, because one doesn't exist, so what will it do? Live uplink to a satellite that will download real-time images of the terrain? Deploy a drone to scout ahead and report back?


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Spotscat said:


> But if the driveway isn't mapped, then how is it going to "...triangulate itself using the trees and fence posts and know exactly where the road is even if snow covered."?
> 
> If there is no onboard map, then the self-driving vehicle won't be able to "...compare what its sensors see to the onboard 3D map, allowing the car to know its position on the road to within 10cm of accuracy" because it doesn't have a frame of reference.
> 
> ...


In the case of the private drive in the previous picture, it will use its sensors; cameras, lidar, radar, ultrasonic, infrared to navigate and map the driveway


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Rat said:


> You keep quoting an advertising video for a product that isn't even on the market, claiming it says something it doesn't. Then claim a map that doesn't exist yet will guide it in the present. You want to pretend giant holes in your theory are "trivial".


What are you talking about? of course it exists. Google drove more than 3 million self driving miles last year.


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## Leo1983 (Jul 3, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> And McDonalds was suppose to kill the restaurant business back in the late 60's early 70's. Just like customers became sick of McDonalds ever declining quality of food pax will get fed up with angry drivers, being cancelled on, paying surge and lack of vehicular freedom.
> Just like McDonalds is now only popular with the fat lazy poor American, Uber will soon only appeal to the drunk obnoxious youth.


Their goal is to hang on with sub par pay and cheap employees. And just grow as fast as possible. And in about 2-3 years they will replace everyone with autonomous vehicles. 
They know everything how the drivers feel and what they do. They just simply don't care it's part of the plan. 
Ps: fast food already distroyed the planet with cheap industrial red meat. So until the average citizen chooses home cooking or sit down restaurants we're doomed anyway.


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## Snowtop (Nov 11, 2014)

tohunt4me said:


> Cursive writing is no longer being taught in schools
> 
> Soon
> 
> Your great grandchildren will be unable to READ the Declaration if Independence !





SEAL Team 5 said:


> Soon is already here. Go ask any random high school kid "what is the Preamble?"


The Preamble is in the Constitution not the Declaration. I guess we don't have to wait for anyone great grandchildren for ignorance to be ramant.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Snowtop said:


> The Preamble is in the Constitution not the Declaration. I guess we don't have to wait for anyone great grandchildren for ignorance to be ramant.


Ok, who said it was a part of the Declaration? It's known formally as The Preamble to the Constitution.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> What are you talking about? of course it exists. Google drove more than 3 million self driving miles last year.


There is no map of that driveway. There are roads that aren't on any maps. Now you're claiming those weird looking cars have been everywhere?


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## Snowtop (Nov 11, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Ok, who said it was a part of the Declaration? It's known formally as The Preamble to the Constitution.


You did....I even quoted the post about the Declaration and your response about the Preamble.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

Rat said:


> There is no map of that driveway. There are roads that aren't on any maps. Now you're claiming those weird looking cars have been everywhere?


They'll have radar, lasers, ultrasound, cameras, GPS, satellite imagery, LORAN, Omega, Decca, curb feelers, and more to safely navigate us to our destinations.

They'll also have a Mr. Fusion 1.21 gigawatt home reactor to supply the needed electrical power, as well as a Cray XT5 computer to handle all the necessary calculations.

I'm just waiting for the day when they all have flux capacitors!

"Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads!"


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Leo1983 said:


> Their goal is to hang on with sub par pay and cheap employees. And just grow as fast as possible. And in about 2-3 years they will replace everyone with autonomous vehicles.
> They know everything how the drivers feel and what they do. They just simply don't care it's part of the plan.
> Ps: fast food already distroyed the planet with cheap industrial red meat. So until the average citizen chooses home cooking or sit down restaurants we're doomed anyway.


You are correct


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Snowtop said:


> You did....I even quoted the post about the Declaration and your response about the Preamble.


"Soon is already here. Go ask any random high school kid what the Preamble is." How in the hell do you get that I even referred that to the Declaration? tohunt4me posted about cursive writing and The Declaration "if" Independence. He was relating kids not understanding that type of writing. I think you jumped the gun and assumed. I guess it's a good thing I didn't say "Soon is already here. Go ask any random high school kid what the Pythagorean Theorem is." You might have questioned me if I knew that a right triangle doesn't exist in the Declaration.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> "Soon is already here. Go ask any random high school kid what the Preamble is." How in the hell do you get that I even referred that to the Declaration? tohunt4me posted about cursive writing and The Declaration "if" Independence. He was relating kids not understanding that type of writing. I think you jumped the gun and assumed. I guess it's a good thing I didn't say "Soon is already here. Go ask any random high school kid what the Pythagorean Theorem is." You might have questioned me if I knew that a right triangle doesn't exist in the Declaration.


Ask any random high school kid the difference between a rip saw and a crosscut saw.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Spotscat said:


> Ask any random high school kid the difference between a rip saw and a crosscut saw.


One cuts better going with the grain of wood and one cuts better going across the grain of wood? I don't know, that was just a guess. I would just say F it and use a power saw.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> One cuts better going with the grain of wood and one cuts better going across the grain of wood? I don't know, that was just a guess. I would just say F it and use a power saw.


You would be correct, sir!


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## ATX 22 (Jun 17, 2015)

Video was supposed to kill the radio star, too .


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

ATX 22 said:


> Video was supposed to kill the radio star, too .


Look what happened to Ronnie James Dio. His voice was praised as he sang for Rainbow, Black Sabbath and Dio. Then once MTV showed him in person many people fell ill and asked "how in the hell can that little 4' troll looking creature belt out lyrics with a voice like that?" Dio passed away in 2010


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## Lebowskii (Oct 27, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> And computers were supposed to kill the typewriter business. Oh that's right, they did
> 
> The House passed the self driving car bill today unanimously. Think about that, even the dems realize either we lead in SDC's or we let the Euros and Japan control the market


Actually computers helped the typewriter business as they now own and sell keyboards the latest trend of which is mechanical keys which is a HUGE market


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> Computers decimated the newspaper industry


And the adult DVD and peep show business, it's not just real unless there is glass between you.....


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## lotsogritts (Sep 13, 2017)

I just have one question ok maybe a couple. Who gets the ticket if say for instance the faSDV gets a red light camera ticket? Suppose it needs gas does the PAX pump the gas or does the car drive all the way home to fill up? What about car insurance, normally the car make, model, year etc are key factors for insurance premiums. The major factor though is your personal driving history and if I'm not driving????? Millennials won't even need to get a drivers license now. They just buy a faSDV and presto. Now instead of my 8 year old wanting a $850 cell phone since all his/her classmates have one it will be a car. They are not driving the car does it all so my 8 year old is now driving him/herself to school and play dates. I know this is a slight tanget but just wanted to throw this out there.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

tomatopaste said:
"And computers were supposed to kill the typewriter business. Oh that's right, they did"

And yet, for people of a certain age, those cheap membrane keyboards are a technological abortion that many of us abhor. A few years ago I bought a Dask Mechanical Cherry keyboard for my pc. It gives the same feel and sound clicks as the much revered and lamented IBM Selectric. (I self-published dozens of "underground" newspapers in the late 1960s and 1970s using the same IBM Selectric with the type fonts on a spinning globe that whirled around with lightning speed.... )

A Google "find" for Dask Keyboards reads thusly: "
*Das Keyboard - The Ultimate Mechanical Keyboard Experience for ...*
www.daskeyboard.com/

_*Das Keyboard*_ offers badass geeks the ultimate experience with high-performance mechanical keyboards with superior durability, construction, and design.

I guess that's me... a badass geek! Oh, hey! A picture of me when I was a lot younger, typing away....


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> How many years have i spoken of this ?
> 
> Once AGAIN
> PLEASE READ AGENDA 21 AND OBJECTIVES TO ELIMINATE PERSONAL VEHICLE OWNERSHIP GLOBALLY !
> ...


Wow, another conspiracy theorist! I love it. All too often people can't connect the dots and suffer the consequences. Truthfully, I am not at the moment able to comprehend the enormity of your suggestion that something like the Illuminati seek control of all means of transportation across the globe. I wonder, does this include camels? You can never be sure of what those ************'s are up to....
OK! You can never be sure what anyone is up to... You know, 10 years ago the idea of having a GPS tracking system in my car would have freaked me out! I don't have a facebook page, I do not twitter, and I don't even understand stuff like snap chat, instagram etc. If I hadn't become impoverished I never would have surrendered as much of my privacy as I have with UBER. I have never understood why so many people rat themselves out on Facebook, allowing the Feds and local police to catch far more perpetrators than they otherwise would have.

So, yeah, cultural norms are changing, far faster than many people of my generation ever anticipated. Maybe there is a branch of the government that is working with various tech companies to actually program people so that they are happy to surrender their right to privacy and other rights for superficial trendy nonsense. Who knows? I have been a member of several cults and covens, initiated into a few secret societies ( that accept online, electronic donations,  ) and I have seen how belief systems can change from the rational to the absurd.

We worry about self driving vehicles now, but what if Skype and other forms of telecommunications can actually provide the "look and feel" of actually being with the person you wanted to visit? What if artificial intelligences and enhanced computers can eliminate the need to go anywhere in the physical world? Perhaps all this worry about SDV is as vapor-like as Crowley's implied prediction of a global catastrophe 30 years ago. Maybe, in another 20 years, we will all travel mentally, not physically, and we will all be happy eating our daily rations of Soylent Green...

Ah, I've been up since 2AM ... Sucking down the nightly elixir with the intent of putting me to sleep... I gotta go....


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> I disagree. If Uber had any intention of raising fares, they already would have raised fares. So what are they waiting for? Answer: self driving cars.
> 
> From Forbes:
> 
> ...


They did raise them what do you think upfront pricing and the booking fee is?


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> It will. Every self driving car
> 
> Incorrect. It will have a 3D map of every private driveway, trees cut down, etc.
> 
> ...


In a world where GPS can't even get me to the front gate of an apartment complex, we're talking about superaccurate 3D optical location that self-corrects for visual changes in the environment.....


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

PrestonT said:


> In a world where GPS can't even get me to the front gate of an apartment complex, we're talking about superaccurate 3D optical location that self-corrects for visual changes in the environment.....


Yessiree Bob! Hyper accurate GPS, with laser, radar, lidar, ultraviolet, infrared, and ultrasound sensors that will be able to pinpoint a vehicles location to with 0.000000000001 centimeter of accuracy. 3D imaging cameras will provide a 360° panoramic view of everything seen and unseen, and will be unaffected by rain, snow, fog, smoke, or splattered insects on the lenses.

All these systems will be monitored by a computer no bigger than a deck of cards, with a CPU that runs at 10 billion yottahertz (10M YHz).

And all this electrical power will be supplied by this --


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

WaveRunner1 said:


> Uber was the first major and was attempting to be the dominant. It is still growing at a fast pace but has hit major bumps from Lyft and overseas competitors. If they raise rates considerably now everyone will flock to Lyft so we are stuck with low rates for a while.


Both rideshare companies are charging unsustainable rates. The only thing they can do to increase profits and not pi$$ off those precious little snowflakes (their customer base) is through back door fees. Fees like the booking fee and upfront pricing will be incrementally jacked up. The snowflakes will not even notice because they didn't pay attention to the economics profs in college. 
Why do you think they all supported the Bern? Because, they don't know Jack bout economics and dont want to. They swallowed the lie from the commies that it's evil. That is, til they have to move out of mommies basement and start paying bills. LMAO!


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## 45821 (Feb 15, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> And computers were supposed to kill the typewriter business. Oh that's right, they did
> 
> The House passed the self driving car bill today unanimously. Think about that, even the dems realize either we lead in SDC's or we let the Euros and Japan control the market


And television was supposed to kill the radio. Oh that's right, it did't.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

PrestonT said:


> In a world where GPS can't even get me to the front gate of an apartment complex, we're talking about superaccurate 3D optical location that self-corrects for visual changes in the environment.....


Correct. That's exactly what we're talking about. To within 10 cm



Spotscat said:


> Yessiree Bob! Hyper accurate GPS, with laser, radar, lidar, ultraviolet, infrared, and ultrasound sensors that will be able to pinpoint a vehicles location to with 0.000000000001 centimeter of accuracy. 3D imaging cameras will provide a 360° panoramic view of everything seen and unseen, and will be unaffected by rain, snow, fog, smoke, or splattered insects on the lenses.
> 
> All these systems will be monitored by a computer no bigger than a deck of cards, with a CPU that runs at 10 billion yottahertz (10M YHz).
> 
> ...


Hey you're starting to get it


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Correct. That's exactly what we're talking about. To within 10 cm


It's farther out than you....and Uber and Lyft, think. That was my point.


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## Snowtop (Nov 11, 2014)

Recent news report. Self driving cars have logged 1 million miles and given 30,000 rides.

Uber's fleet of self-driving cars have logged more than 1 million autonomous miles since the company started offering rides a year ago in Pittsburgh.

The company's more than 200 self-driving cars in Pittsburgh, Tempe, Arizona, and San Francisco hit the million mile mark after giving more than 30,000 rides during the first year of the pilot program, the company said.

Uber said it was proud of the progress it made in the first year.

On Sept. 14, 2016, Uber launched a pilot program in Pittsburgh, offering select users in some neighborhoods the opportunity to ride in a self-driving Ford Fusion when they requested a ride through the Uber app. Pittsburgh was the first city in the country where people could catch a ride in autonomous car.

Uber's testing eventually expanded to all users and the number of neighborhoods where the self-driving cars traveled grew. The company put self-driving Volvo XC90s on Pittsburgh streets later in 2016.

Uber sent self-driving cars to San Francisco at the end of 2016 but quickly pulled them off the road after state regulators threatened to revoke their registrations for not having a permit allowing the company to test self-driving cars in the state.

The cars were loaded up on a truck and shipped to Tempe, where they have been offering rides. Uber eventually secured the proper permits and expanded it self-driving pilot program to San Francisco in 2017.

Uber's first year with self-driving cars has been relatively accident free. One car was involved in a major crash in Tempe in March while in self-driving mode. The autonomous vehicle was not at fault and no one was injured. Uber pulled all its cars from the road for about 48 hours after the crash.

http://www.ttnews.com/articles/uber...gs-more-1-million-autonomous-miles-first-year


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Bon Jovi said:


> And television was supposed to kill the radio. Oh that's right, it did't.


Things that are dead or walking dead:

Camera film
Blockbuster
Vcr's
Maps
Newspapers
Landlines
Long distance charges
Pay phones
Fax machines
Phone books
Dictionaries
Encyclopedias 
411
CD's
Record stores



PrestonT said:


> It's farther out than you....and Uber and Lyft, think. That was my point.


I think it starts within a year


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Bon Jovi said:


> And television was supposed to kill the radio. Oh that's right, it did't.


Poor analogy. A better one would be that recorded music in Las Vegas shows killed tj e careers of professioknal orchestral musicians. It did.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Snowtop said:


> Recent news report. Self driving cars have logged 1 million miles and given 30,000 rides.
> 
> Uber's fleet of self-driving cars have logged more than 1 million autonomous miles since the company started offering rides a year ago in Pittsburgh.
> 
> ...


Self driving taxis are already here. Uber is even charging for the service.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Hey you're starting to get it


I also remember all the claims about how the Boeing 2707 was going to revolutionize air travel.

After the program was deemed to be unworkable for a variety of reasons, 63,000 people were laid-off, prompting this billboard --









I've seen too many over-inflated claims by technology geeks and misguided engineers over the years. Self-driving automobiles are just another example.

Hubris will get you everytime.


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

Elmo Burrito said:


> Both rideshare companies are charging unsustainable rates. The only thing they can do to increase profits and not pi$$ off those precious little snowflakes (their customer base) is through back door fees. Fees like the booking fee and upfront pricing will be incrementally jacked up. The snowflakes will not even notice because they didn't pay attention to the economics profs in college.
> Why do you think they all supported the Bern? Because, they don't know Jack bout economics and dont want to. They swallowed the lie from the commies that it's evil. That is, til they have to move out of mommies basement and start paying bills. LMAO!


I love how Uber claims the booking fee is to help improve safety for riders and drivers. How exactly? The upfront pricing scam is the most unethical thing Uber does at present. It is straight theft.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

Snowtop said:


> Recent news report. Self driving cars have logged 1 million miles and given 30,000 rides.
> 
> Uber's fleet of self-driving cars have logged more than 1 million autonomous miles since the company started offering rides a year ago in Pittsburgh.
> 
> ...


http://www.npr.org/sections/alltech...ers-driving-lessons-for-ubers-autonomous-cars

*"It's still very early in what we're doing, but it's going very well," says Uber's Emily Duff Bartel. One reason may be that each autonomous vehicle comes with two Uber employees in the front seat. Just in case. One is ready to grab the wheel and apply a foot to the brake pedal. The other, in the passenger seat, has a computer screen showing what the car's rooftop laser-bouncing radar is seeing.

When NPR took a short spin in one of the Uber vehicles, the car behaved like a very cautious driver, stopping for a full three seconds at stop signs and never going above the speed limit. The Uber humans had to take to get around a bulky, parked 18-wheeler and to get the car into and out of the Uber parking lot.

While Uber's vehicles are practicing good traffic etiquette, becoming self-reliant is a hard climb. Rajkumar, an early engineer on self-driving cars, says that a world where such cars are the norm is a long way off.

"All these predictions that people made, including myself, going back several years, it turns out we are not there yet," he says.

"It turns out that driving is a very complex activity. In fact, it may be the most complex activity that most adults on the planet engage in."

Even harder for autonomous cars to master are local quirks; things like "the Pittsburgh left." That's a custom unique to the city that allows the first driver trying to make a left turn to do so before oncoming cars pass through an intersection. It's one thing that Emily Duff Bartel says Uber's fleet of self-driving cars won't be programmed to practice. "We're following the rules on this one," she says.

That's because an autonomous vehicle is a rational machine, so you can't make it do human tricks. A real city like Pittsburgh is an irrational obstacle course, where the obstacles are sometimes at rest and sometimes in motion. We learn rules of the road that we then commonly violate. And we often use eye contact to communicate with pedestrians and other drivers.

For all the automotive industry's enthusiasm for autonomous vehicles, Uber's Pittsburgh experiment is still truly experimental.*


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Spotscat said:


> http://www.npr.org/sections/alltech...ers-driving-lessons-for-ubers-autonomous-cars
> 
> *"It's still very early in what we're doing, but it's going very well," says Uber's Emily Duff Bartel. One reason may be that each autonomous vehicle comes with two Uber employees in the front seat. Just in case. One is ready to grab the wheel and apply a foot to the brake pedal. The other, in the passenger seat, has a computer screen showing what the car's rooftop laser-bouncing radar is seeing.*
> 
> ...


*GM's Cruise aims to open self-driving tests to public; timing unclear*

*https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-gm-selfdriving/gms-cruise-aims-to-open-self-driving-tests-to-public-timing-unclear-idUSKCN1BQ2SH*

Testing a ride service underscores GM's ambitions to adapt its business in the face of a potential shift in the car industry from individual ownership to transportation as a service.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

I like listening to the Ric Edelman Financial Advice show on Sunday Mornings. Some people complain that he is too full of himself... that may be, but I have found his show to be informative, occasionally helpful. and sometimes very entertaining. All of these traits were in full force in his anniversary show back on May 6 2017: https://player.fm/series/the-truth-about-money-with-ric-edelman/the-ric-edelman-show-may-6-2017

During this show he uses a clip from a comedian (Alonzo Bodden) to illustrate how wrong many of the best brains in America have been about "what the future holds". Alonzo can do pretty well without Ric tho, as this You Too clip proves: 




What it comes down to is "common sense" is often anything but what these pundits mean. So don't believe that today's bullshit about self driving cars is the gospel truth. There may be a market for self driving cars in college towns and very crowded cities. But there is always going to be a sizable market of drivers who want to go their own way, without the NSA and Facebook audience watching their every move.

I mean, how many under 18 teenagers who want to do the deed, are going to choose to do it in a SDV? Really, so that the car can deliver them both to the local PD to be charged as sex offenders? Hell, most of my high school class of 1971 would be in jail!


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## brianboru (Nov 3, 2016)

tomatopaste said:


> Self driving taxis are already here. Uber is even charging for the service.


They aren't self driving as long as there is a driver on board in case of problems.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

brianboru said:


> They aren't self driving as long as there is a driver on board in case of problems.


They are self driving with a human backup. So there are regular people who have probably taken tens of rides in a car driven entirely by itself.
"Yeah I've taken 50 rides in SDC's, they drive better than I do. Don't worry they're safe."​This is part of the testing phase. Not just teaching the cars, but also teaching the passengers.
​


Retired Senior said:


> I mean, how many under 18 teenagers who want to do the deed, are going to choose to do it in a SDV?


How many 15 yr olds who want to do the deed are going to grab a blanket, call a self driving taxi and head to the lake? The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

tomatopaste: "How many 15 yr olds who want to do the deed are going to grab a blanket, call a self driving taxi and head to the lake? The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away"
OK TP, lets get real! I got laid for the first time in a local cemetery, in the middle of winter, in 1970. I was 17, my girlfriend was 16. AND FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME, WE WERE LATE BLOOMERS! In today's stupid politically correct world I would probably be arrested as a sex offender, and who knows how the chips may have rolled for my girlfriend.
I have found that the older that I get, the more lies I see people telling themselves about what they were like at a certain age. We were horny and we ****ed. End of story. God, the Republicans, STDs, nothing mattered but the biological imperative... The Doors had just played Central High School, on the radio Snoopy was strafing the Bloody Red Baron, Tim Leary was advocating LSD to Turn on, tune in, drop out... and comprehend the World as a whole. Mick Jagger was singing about how he could not get "no satisfaction", but as I looked at my girlfriend's mother I knew where I might get some... of course her Dad always wore a gun on his belt, and I was pretty sure that he too had his concerns...

So yeah, I don't think that all sexually active teens would throw caution to the wind and get in a SDV. I think that enough of them would understand the pros and cons and try to be discrete. Of course, if their gobsmacked elders had done away with the option of owning and using a privately owned vehicle, then they might be forced to simply::


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Retired Senior said:


> tomatopaste: "How many 15 yr olds who want to do the deed are going to grab a blanket, call a self driving taxi and head to the lake? The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away"
> OK TP, lets get real! I got laid for the first time in a local cemetery, in the middle of winter, in 1970. I was 17, my girlfriend was 16. AND FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME, WE WERE LATE BLOOMERS! In today's stupid politically correct world I would probably be arrested as a sex offender, and who knows how the chips may have rolled for my girlfriend.
> I have found that the older that I get, the more lies I see people telling themselves about what they were like at a certain age. We were horny and we &%[email protected]!*ed. End of story. God, the Republicans, STDs, nothing mattered but the biological imperative... The Doors had just played Central High School, on the radio Snoopy was strafing the Bloody Red Baron, Tim Leary was advocating LSD to Turn on, tune in, drop out... and comprehend the World as a whole. Mick Jagger was singing about how he could not get "no satisfaction", but as I looked at my girlfriend's mother I knew where I might get some... of course her Dad always wore a gun on his belt, and I was pretty sure that he too had his concerns...
> 
> So yeah, I don't think that all sexually active teens would throw caution to the wind and get in a SDV. I think that enough of them would understand the pros and cons and try to be discrete. Of course, if their gobsmacked elders had done away with the option of owning and using a privately owned vehicle, then they might be forced to simply::


I wasn't clear. The blanket is to lay on the ground at the lake after the SDC drops them off.


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

Well . . . here's the thing. Even in European cities where public transportation is highly subsidized and efficient, most people still own cars. They just don't drive them everyday or commute in them. But they do like to have nice vehicles for adventures and taking the family to grandmas.


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

osii said:


> Well . . . here's the thing. Even in European cities where public transportation is highly subsidized and efficient, most people still own cars. They just don't drive them everyday or commute in them. But they do like to have nice vehicles for adventures and taking the family to grandmas.


But that will come to an end. They are paying dearly for a car just to use once in a while. Now they won't have to, they'll just order a self driving car to take the family to grandmas.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

Another question I have about the "near" deployment of self driving cars is this: who determines what the sensor thresh-holds are going to be, and what are they?

This morning I was driving in Trumbull, Monroe and Easton. I narrowly avoided running over at least 3 squirrels, 2 chipmunks, and a few birds who were to slow to take to the air. As far as I know, in 49 years of driving I have only killed 1 bird and 1 squirrel. Call me a Doctor Doolittle wanna be... I protect animals, to the best of my ability, even when I suffer physically or financially from it.

So these self-driving cars.... their software designers must decide on the level of morality that these cars will engage in. I imagine that humans, horses, and large dogs will cause the car to slow down, drive around, or stop, but what about cats, small dogs, raccoons, and turtles trying to get to the pond across the street?

I know that there are psychopathic, soul-less humans on the road who treat animals like targets in a video game, but what about when 1 person sets the thresh-hold for thousands of cars? I can see the potential for a lot of lawsuits....


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Retired Senior said:


> Another question I have about the "near" deployment of self driving cars is this: who determines what the sensor thresh-holds are going to be, and what are they?
> 
> This morning I was driving in Trumbull, Monroe and Easton. I narrowly avoided running over at least 3 squirrels, 2 chipmunks, and a few birds who were to slow to take to the air. As far as I know, in 49 years of driving I have only killed 1 bird and 1 squirrel. Call me a Doctor Doolittle wanna be... I protect animals, to the best of my ability, even when I suffer physically or financially from it.
> 
> ...


Raccoons and dogs are safe. Cats are on their own. (2:35 on the video)


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

tomatopaste said:


> Raccoons and dogs are safe. Cats are on their own. (2:35 on the video)


Also ducks and birds are safe. Cats are still on their own.
(video 11:10 to 11:38)


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## gizmotheboss (Jul 5, 2017)

I am a driver, but as a rider I would never own a car with today's low rates of ride share company's. The diver is paying out of his own pocket To supplement the riders fair


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

UBER's former AI security expert says the safety concerns of SDV will not be conclusively addressed in anytime soon...
(Perhaps the Feds will redefine SDV as terrorist weapons of choice...)


https://www.wired.com/2017/04/ubers-former-top-hacker-securing-autonomous-cars-really-hard-problem/

04.12.17

07:00 am
*Securing Driverless Cars From Hackers Is Hard. Ask the Ex-Uber Guy Who Protects Them*
Author: Andy Greenberg
Two years ago, Charlie Miller and Chris Valasek pulled off a demonstration that shook the auto industry, remotely hacking a Jeep Cherokee via its internet connection to paralyze it on a highway. Since then, the two security researchers have been quietly working for Uber, helping the startup secure its experimental self-driving cars against exactly the sort of attack they proved was possible on a traditional one. Now, Miller has moved on, and he's ready to broadcast a message to the automotive industry: Securing autonomous cars from hackers is a _very_ difficult problem. It's time to get serious about solving it.

Last month, Miller left Uber for a position at Chinese competitor Didi, a startup that's just now beginning its own autonomous ridesharing project. In his first post-Uber interview, Miller talked to WIRED about what he learned in those 19 months at the company-namely that driverless taxis pose a security challenge that goes well beyond even those faced by the rest of the connected car industry.

Miller couldn't talk about any of the specifics of his research at Uber; he says he moved to Didi in part because the company has allowed him to speak more openly about car hacking. But he warns that before self-driving taxis can become a reality, the vehicles' architects will need to consider everything from the vast array of automation in driverless cars that can be remotely hijacked, to the possibility that passengers themselves could use their physical access to sabotage an unmanned vehicle.









Charlie Miller

Whitney Curtis for WIRED
"Autonomous vehicles are at the apex of all the terrible things that can go wrong," says Miller, who spent years on the NSA's Tailored Access Operations team of elite hackers before stints at Twitter and Uber. "Cars are already insecure, and you're adding a bunch of sensors and computers that are controlling them...If a bad guy gets control of that, it's going to be even worse."

*At A Computer's Mercy*
In a series of experiments starting in 2013, Miller and Valasek showed that a hacker with either wired or over-the-internet access to a vehicle-including a Toyota Prius, Ford Escape, and a Jeep Cherokee-could disable or slam on a victim's brakes, turn the steering wheel, or, in some cases, cause unintended acceleration. But to trigger almost all those attacks, Miller and Valasek had to exploit vehicles' existing automated features. They used the Prius' collision avoidance system to apply its brakes, and the Jeep's cruise control feature to accelerate it. To turn the Jeep's steering wheel, they tricked it into thinking it was parking itself-even if it was moving at 80 miles per hour.




Their car-hacking hijinks, in other words, were limited to the few functions a vehicle's computer controls. In a driverless car, the computer controls _everything_. "In an autonomous vehicle, the computer can apply the brakes and turn the steering wheel any amount, at any speed," Miller says. "The computers are even more in charge."

An alert driver could also override many of the attacks Miller and Valasek demonstrated on traditional cars: Tap the brakes and that cruise control acceleration immediately ceases. Even the steering wheel attacks could be easily overcome if the driver wrests control of the wheel. When the passenger isn't in the driver's seat-or there is no steering wheel or brake pedal-no such manual override exists. "No matter what we did in the past, the human had a chance to control the car. But if you're sitting in the backseat, that's a whole different story," says Miller. "You're totally at the mercy of the vehicle."

*Hackers Take Rides, Too*
A driverless car that's used as a taxi, Miller points out, poses even more potential problems. In that situation, every passenger has to be considered a potential threat. Security researchers have shown that merely plugging an internet-connected gadget into a car's OBD2 port-a ubiquitous outlet under its dashboard-can offer a remote attacker an entry point into the vehicle's most sensitive systems. (Researchers at the University of California at San Diego showed in 2015 that they could take control of a Corvette's brakes via a common OBD2 dongle distributed by insurance companies-including one that partnered with Uber.)

"There's going to be someone you don't necessarily trust sitting in your car for an extended period of time," says Miller. "The OBD2 port is something that's pretty easy for a passenger to plug something into and then hop out, and then they have access to your vehicle's sensitive network."

Permanently plugging that port is illegal under federal regulations, Miller says. He suggests ridesharing companies that use driverless cars could cover it with tamper-evident tape. But even then, they might only be able to narrow down which passenger could have sabotaged a vehicle to a certain day or week. A more comprehensive fix would mean securing the vehicle's software so that not even a malicious hacker with full physical access to its network would be able to hack it-a challenge Miller says only a few highly locked-down products like an iPhone or Chromebook can pass.

"It's definitely a hard problem," he says.

*Deep Fixes*
Miller argues that solving autonomous vehicles' security flaws will require some fundamental changes to their security architecture. Their internet-connected computers, for instance, will need "codesigning," a measure that ensures they only run trusted code signed with a certain cryptographic key. Today only Tesla has talked publicly about implementing that feature. Cars' internal networks will need better internal segmentation and authentication, so that critical components don't blindly follow commands from the OBD2 port. They need intrusion detection systems that can alert the driver-or rider-when something anomalous happens on the cars' internal networks. (Miller and Valasek designed one such prototype.) And to prevent hackers from getting an initial, remote foothold, cars need to limit their "attack surface," any services that might accept malicious data sent over the internet.

Autonomous vehicles are at the apex of all the terrible things that can go wrong.

Car Hacker Charlie Miller

Complicating those fixes? Companies like Uber and Didi don't even make the cars they use, but instead have to bolt on any added security after the fact. "They're getting a car that already has some attack surface, some vulnerabilities, and a lot of software they don't have any control over, and then trying to make that into something secure," says Miller. "That's really hard."

That means solving autonomous vehicles' security nightmares will require far more open conversation and cooperation among companies. That's part of why Miller left Uber, he says: He wants the freedom to speak more openly within the industry. "I want to talk about how we're securing cars and the scary things we see, instead of designing these things in private and hoping that we all know what we're doing," he says.

Car hacking, fortunately, remains largely a concern for the future: No car has yet been digitally hijacked in a documented, malicious case. But that means now's the time to work on the problem, Miller says, before cars become more automated and make the problem far more real. "We have some time to build up these security measures and get them right before something happens," says Miller. "And that's why I'm doing this."


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## tomatopaste (Apr 11, 2017)

Retired Senior said:


> UBER's former AI security expert says the safety concerns of SDV will not be conclusively addressed in anytime soon...
> (Perhaps the Feds will redefine SDV as terrorist weapons of choice...)
> 
> 
> ...


"But that's the wrong way round, says Craig Smith, a security researcher and car hacker. "One interesting thing about fully self-driving cars is they're unintentionally more secure, which is really not what you would expect at all."

"That fusion of sensor doesn't just help get a better picture of the world, it also, accidentally, solves part of the security problem."

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/30/self-driving-cars-hackers-security


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

I am not a fan of the concept of self driving cars. I abhor social media. I don't use Facebook or Twitter. Until I needed the smart phone for Uber there was no reason for me to purchase one. The "cool" factor has rarely factored into my retail decisions. But if there are going to be a sizable number of computer controlled cars cruising about during my lifetime I obviously want them to be safe. And when even a company like Equifax - which holds the keys to the digital kingdom (the complete ID info for half of all United States adults) gets hacked, I think that it is a safe guess that both individual SDV as well as fleets of them, will be hacked soon after their introduction.

On a side note, I have often wondered how UBER has escaped a massive hacking. All some-one would have to do is send out a command for all UBER GPS systems to give directions to go South. I know that there are more than enough Uber drivers who are still sleepy enough when they start driving for the day, to simply follow orders. There are also Uber drivers who are driving in unfamiliar territory who might be fooled into "going south" for a short while.








And yes, I am one of them!


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## RideshareSpectrum (May 12, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> How many years have i spoken of this ?
> 
> Once AGAIN
> PLEASE READ AGENDA 21 AND OBJECTIVES TO ELIMINATE PERSONAL VEHICLE OWNERSHIP GLOBALLY !
> ...


Don't forget the Jooooooz. They want to control Uber. All roads lead back to the central banking cartels, Masonic lodges and the Jooooooooooooz!!!


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## avancurran (Dec 7, 2016)

I love all the concern over self-driving car safety.

I almost guarantee if all the cars were replaced tomorrow (even with the half-developed system we have now) you'd reduce the number of road deaths by at least 1 million people over the next year.

Human drivers are literally the most deadly force in the world since malaria.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

avancurran said:


> I love all the concern over self-driving car safety.
> 
> I almost guarantee if all the cars were replaced tomorrow (even with the half-developed system we have now) you'd reduce the number of road deaths by at least 1 million people over the next year.
> 
> Human drivers are literally the most deadly force in the world since malaria.


 *************************************************************************************

Uh, you need to clarify that statement.... since human drivers (of automobiles?) have only been around for about 120 years, I suggest religious intolerance (if not simply RELIGION in general) has killed far more people than human drivers have.


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## avancurran (Dec 7, 2016)

Depends on what source you're using. You expand "religious intolerance" to just "war" and you can totally make a case for war being more deadly than cars. 

The ranges on data for both car accidents and war ends up being so huge that it's hard to put an exact number on either (last I heard we were hitting 1.5 million deaths worldwide with cars per year these days)

The fact that we're even able to debate whether car accidents or military combat is more deadly should be enough to make it worthy of some concern. 

Obviously I'm leaving out all causes of death that are associated with aging.


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## Tom Harding (Sep 26, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> It hit the post office hard


email hit the post office hard, but paper sales for Staples and other office supply places have soared. You got a computer, most likely uouy have a printer and if you have a printer you but paper and ink for it. Home Offices, etc. have increased paper sales a lot,.



WaveRunner1 said:


> Sorry to break it to you but the reason fares are low is competition. Uber wants to kill Lyft but that looks less likely now. Everyone knows self driving cars are 10 years away. Uber wants to be Walmart but unlike Walmart it doesn't produce a profit. If Uber does not raise fares in coming years or billions in funding it will go bankrupt.


Uber fares in Chicago (except surge) are about what taxi fares were about 1971. Today Uber fares are 55% or more less than taxi fares.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Tom Harding said:


> email hit the post office hard, but paper sales for Staples and other office supply places have soared. You got a computer, most likely uouy have a printer and if you have a printer you but paper and ink for it. Home Offices, etc. have increased paper sales a lot,.
> 
> Uber fares in Chicago (except surge) are about what taxi fares were about 1971. Today Uber fares are 55% or more less than taxi fares.


I have all of my bills mailed.
I support my post office.


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## avancurran (Dec 7, 2016)

Blockchain technology will kill paper mail once and for all. 

Email is very easy to forge and falsify, so it makes sense that important documents are not emailed.

Encrypted communication on a blockchain is virtually impossible to falsify or alter and more secure than paper mail. Within 10 years the only reason to send paper documents will be nostalgia.


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## WaveRunner1 (Jun 11, 2017)

Tom Harding said:


> email hit the post office hard, but paper sales for Staples and other office supply places have soared. You got a computer, most likely uouy have a printer and if you have a printer you but paper and ink for it. Home Offices, etc. have increased paper sales a lot,.
> 
> Uber fares in Chicago (except surge) are about what taxi fares were about 1971. Today Uber fares are 55% or more less than taxi fares.


Uber has two customers, the riders and drivers. Each with their own app, customer service, and management to ensure continued use of the Uber platform.


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

heynow321 said:


> exactly. the brand has already suffered serious damage from their bonehead move of subsidizing rides. all the stuff that made people hate cabs now happens all the time with boober. *you get what you pay for. low cost rides = low quality service/drivers. it's very simple....*


It's obvious to people with common sense like you and me. But it would amaze you to find out how many otherwise intelligent people think getting white-glove, limo service for transit fare is actually sustainable.


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