# Tesla is now doomed. Here’s how its EV dream will soon come crashing down



## goneubering

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-is-dying-and-this-is-how-it-will-end/
*Tesla is now doomed. Here's how its EV dream will soon come crashing down*

*WHY TESLA IS DOOMED*

The only way to be successful at car manufacturing is to do it at a very large scale. You have to sell hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cars per year to be stable. In 2018, Tesla shifted a total of 245,240 cars. The Model 3 also became the best-selling luxury automobile in United States. 2018 was a fantastic year for Tesla. It has also taken the company to the very brink of imploding.


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## uberdriverfornow

even though SDC's will never happen i don't think tesla is going away

the electric vehicle itself appears to be a great car if they can figure out how to make them stop exploding and stop telling drivers that the autopilot works

i think investors will keep pumping money in


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## getawaycar

Wasted billions on the stupid autopilot tech - could have used that money to ramp up production and improve quality control.


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## everythingsuber

uberdriverfornow said:


> even though SDC's will never happen i don't think tesla is going away
> 
> the electric vehicle itself appears to be a great car if they can figure out how to make them stop exploding and stop telling drivers that the autopilot works
> 
> i think investors will keep pumping money in


No. Investors will look at people who can make cars and take advantage of the best technology available ie Mercedes, Porsche etc. Tesla technology is almost old and it's cars are ugly. Dead in the water.


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## RabbleRouser

I WISH I had Elon Musk's problems

http://www.globalconstructionreview.com/news/elon-musks-boring-company-selected-underground-loo/
*Elon Musk's Boring Company selected for underground loop system in Vegas*
28 May 2019 | By GCR Staff


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## Bob Reynolds

I would not write Tesla off. Just like I won't write Nissan off. Nissan produced the first mass produced electric vehicle. (The Nissan Leaf)

Even though the Nissan Leaf has sold more electric vehicles than anyone else, including Tesla; the Nissan Leaf has been a challenge to purchase for anyone but the most determined consumer.

When you walk into a Nissan dealership, the last car they want to sell you is a Nissan Leaf. The salesman will do everything they can to talk you into one of their gas powered vehicles. In addition, since the Nissan Leaf is so reliable and does not require hardly any service; it does not provide income (or jobs) for the dealership service department. 

All of us that drive Nissan Leafs have received cards and/or phone calls from the Nissan dealer service departments that offer us a free oil change. The problem is that the Nissan Leaf doesn't have any oil that you can change. It's an electric car. It competes with Nissan's other vehicles and the dealer makes less money with the Nissan Leaf and has to put in a $40,000 high speed charging station (which requires maintenance) in order to qualify to sell the Nissan Leaf. The specially trained Nissan Leaf mechanic in the back is like the Maytag repairman. He doesn't have any Nissan Leafs to repair. 

This same pattern with Nissan is repeated with every other car manufacturer at this time with the exception of Tesla. No other manufacturer has the depth of sales that the Nissan Leaf has. No other manufacturer really wants to sell the electric cars. They would rather sell you a standard gasoline powered vehicle. So the sales of electric vehicles are suppressed. The only thing driving sales of electric vehicles is consumer demand. The problem is that all of these manufacturers (except Nissan and Tesla) are selling just a few thousand electric cars. There will be a lot of orphaned EV vehicles from the other manufacturers that will be difficult to get serviced and get parts for in the future. GM has already stopped making the VOLT. 

Tesla, on the other hand is not competing with itself. Tesla only has electric vehicles. This is a major advantage that no other manufacturer has. 

As someone that drives and owns electric vehicles, I learned a long time ago to listen to the folks that actually own, drive and understand these vehicles. The folks that do not own and drive them do not understand these vehicles and have no logical basis for any real or valid opinion regarding electric vehicles.


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## doyousensehumor

Bob Reynolds said:


> I would not write Tesla off. Just like I won't write Nissan off. Nissan produced the first mass produced electric vehicle. (The Nissan Leaf)
> 
> Even though the Nissan Leaf has sold more electric vehicles than anyone else, including Tesla; the Nissan Leaf has been a challenge to purchase for anyone but the most determined consumer.
> 
> When you walk into a Nissan dealership, the last car they want to sell you is a Nissan Leaf. The salesman will do everything they can to talk you into one of their gas powered vehicles. In addition, since the Nissan Leaf is so reliable and does not require hardly any service; it does not provide income (or jobs) for the dealership service department.
> 
> All of us that drive Nissan Leafs have received cards and/or phone calls from the Nissan dealer service departments that offer us a free oil change. The problem is that the Nissan Leaf doesn't have any oil that you can change. It's an electric car. It competes with Nissan's other vehicles and the dealer makes less money with the Nissan Leaf and has to put in a $40,000 high speed charging station (which requires maintenance) in order to qualify to sell the Nissan Leaf. The specially trained Nissan Leaf mechanic in the back is like the Maytag repairman. He doesn't have any Nissan Leafs to repair.
> 
> This same pattern with Nissan is repeated with every other car manufacturer at this time with the exception of Tesla. No other manufacturer has the depth of sales that the Nissan Leaf has. No other manufacturer really wants to sell the electric cars. They would rather sell you a standard gasoline powered vehicle. So the sales of electric vehicles are suppressed. The only thing driving sales of electric vehicles is consumer demand. The problem is that all of these manufacturers (except Nissan and Tesla) are selling just a few thousand electric cars. There will be a lot of orphaned EV vehicles from the other manufacturers that will be difficult to get serviced and get parts for in the future. GM has already stopped making the VOLT.
> 
> Tesla, on the other hand is not competing with itself. Tesla only has electric vehicles. This is a major advantage that no other manufacturer has.
> 
> As someone that drives and owns electric vehicles, I learned a long time ago to listen to the folks that actually own, drive and understand these vehicles. The folks that do not own and drive them do not understand these vehicles and have no logical basis for any real or valid opinion regarding electric vehicles.


Great post. Have you had to do any warranty work or maintenance?
I heard Tesla are have a lot of warranty problems. People dont buy a Tesla for an electric car, they buy it for the tech. Leaf on the other hand is basic car.


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## mbd

90% of TSLA buyers= buying for status upgrade. 90% of TSLA drivers, really bad drivers. Dodge Charger or Ford Mustang drivers also bad drivers That is because of over confidence... those drivers are really great drivers, but over confidence makes them bad drivers , but they can actually drive.
TSLA drivers just pathetic, they have no skills. 1, maybe 2 out of 10 can actually drive good.

They lease to doctors,#1 TSLA clients. They target those guys.
Model 3 lease payments now under 400$ per month with 4-5K down payment .


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## Jay Dean

If Gore would of won we would all be driving electric cars by now.


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## mbd

Jay Dean said:


> If Gore would of won we would all be driving electric cars by now.


I thought earth was doomed about 10 years back, said Gore 20 years back 
Had a pax who was Gore friend,and he showed me his pic , and I couldn't recognize al Gore.


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## Jay Dean

mbd said:


> I thought earth was doomed about 10 years back, said Gore 20 years back
> Had a pax who was Gore friend,and he showed me his pic , and I couldn't recognize al Gore.


If anyone thinks all this car pollution isn't ruining the planet is a moron, it takes everyone to get on board to save it. We are really screwing our selves over with gas powered cars and researchers from Time magazine say we have a whole lot less time then originally expected. By 2100 we will be doomed if we don't change, that much is true, so in a sense he is right, he had a chance to set the tone and the path to saving the planet but we continue to ruin the environment for greed.


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## mbd

Jay Dean said:


> If anyone thinks all this car pollution isn't ruining the planet is a moron, it takes everyone to get on board to save it. We are really screwing our selves over with gas powered cars and researchers from Time magazine say we have a whole lot less time then originally expected. By 2100 we will be doomed if we don't change, that much is true, so in a sense he is right, he had a chance to set the tone and the path to saving the planet but we continue to ruin the environment for greed.


These people live in 10,000 sq ft houses, own multiple mansions, fly around planes ever day, have conventions with 10,000 people, who all flew, then take uber and lyft, then eat meat at the parties( killing innocent animals ).
I got a idea, why don't these people off themselves, thus saving the planet??
10,000 people gathering is really bad for environment ... if they off themselvess , they are saving the planet. Who will be the first one to sacrifice??? That would be no one.

Al Gore sold his tv station to Al Jazeera for millions, who is backed by earth polluters.


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## Bob Reynolds

doyousensehumor said:


> Great post. Have you had to do any warranty work or maintenance?
> I heard Tesla are have a lot of warranty problems. People dont buy a Tesla for an electric car, they buy it for the tech. Leaf on the other hand is basic car.


We have (had) the Nissan Leaf, Ford Focus EV and the Tesla Model S.

We have two Nissan Leafs that my kids drive and the only thing that I have replaced on those are the tires and a blower motor on one of them. These are peppy cars and a lot of fun to drive. They have a lot of technology in them and they can seat 3 adults comfortably in the back seat. I would buy the Nissan Leafs again. I do not like the Bridgestone Tires and replaced those with the Yokohama Avids. Maybe it's just my teenage drivers, but they seem to be prone to road hazards.

The Ford Focus EV was turned in at the end of the lease. There were some issues at first that they fixed with the control board which took several trips to the dealer to flush out. Once it was finally fixed, it stayed fixed. But there are not enough dealers around that know anything about them because they haven't sold very many. Also the back seat is small and not suitable for adults. I would not buy the Ford Focus EV again.

The Tesla Model S has had a set of tires at 28,000 miles and a wheel alignment. The car had Goodyear tires and I replaced them with Michelin hoping to get some better mileage out of them. There hasn't been any other issue with the car. I can't even tell that the brakes are wearing. I did have the prepaid scheduled maintenance plan which cost $2000 when I bought the car. It was kind of a waste going in and finding nothing wrong. They told me that I don't need to bring it in anymore unless something was wrong. Now the plan has expired. It's a great car and I would buy it again.


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## swathdiver

uberdriverfornow said:


> even though SDC's will never happen i don't think tesla is going away


The name will survive, the cars will not. Without government subsidies the company cannot stand on its own in a free market. The cars are just not efficient without an internal combustion engine. One hurricane where the power goes out for a week and those things become more than useless.


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## Bob Reynolds

swathdiver said:


> The name will survive, the cars will not. Without government subsidies the company cannot stand on its own in a free market. The cars are just not efficient without an internal combustion engine. One hurricane where the power goes out for a week and those things become more than useless.


Says the guy that does not own, operate or understand an electric car.

Hate to bring it up but when a hurricane hits and the power goes out for a week, the gas station pumps (that require electricity) can't pump gas into your gas tank.


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## VanGuy

I had a Kia Soul EV. Loved it, and since there weren't many electrics out there that weren't Leafs the depreciation was small despite a lot of KM at 2.5 years when I traded it in. I would have kept it but my lifestyle changed and I'll be doing a lot of road trips in the next couple years and would like to do some camping as well. Can't plug into trees, yet.


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## Fozzie

Bob Reynolds said:


> Says the guy that does not own, operate or understand an electric car.
> 
> Hate to bring it up but when a hurricane hits and the power goes out for a week, the gas station pumps (that require electricity) can't pump gas into your gas tank.


Says the guy that says he owns multiple EVs but doesn't understand that if that hurricane did hit, you'd have no electricity with which to charge your cars.

If the power goes out and I only have the stuff in my gas tank, I can travel approx 550 miles to an area that is operational. How far would you get in your EVs?


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## Bob Reynolds

Fozzie said:


> Says the guy that says he owns multiple EVs but doesn't understand that if that hurricane did hit, you'd have no electricity with which to charge your cars.
> 
> If the power goes out and I only have the stuff in my gas tank, I can travel approx 550 miles to an area that is operational. How far would you get in your EVs?


Most people, including myself, have other vehicles in addition to the electric vehicles. Those are the vehicles that take gas. Those gas powered vehicles usually sit in the garage most of the time while we drive the electric vehicles. However we do bring the gas powered vehicles out when those vehicles are more suitable for the task. For example, electric vehicles do not work well for Uber or Lyft for a number of reasons. Electric vehicles do not work well if you are going on a long road trip.

But most of the time, we are driving our electric vehicles. The reason for this is because most trips are short. Most of the time we charge our vehicles at home. Once in a while we'll be out all day in one of them and charge while we are out. There are charging stations all around the area where we live and drive and we know where they are.

The average driver puts about 12,000 miles a year on their vehicle (gas or electric). That works out to about 33 miles per day. So there is no need to use the gas powered vehicle unless that trip is going to exceed the mileage travel capacity of the electric vehicle.

As far as your question with the hurricane issue, we live in Florida and did have to evacuate during Hurricane Irma. We drove the gas powered Toyota out of Florida and left the Electric Vehicles in the garage. The Toyota doesn't get driven much these days, (probably less than 100 miles a month) but it's there, as a backup, if we need it.

I've always said that a one car household is not a good candidate for an electric vehicle. However if there is more than one car is a household then an electric vehicle is a smart choice for at least one of those vehicles. That's how we started into EV's in 2012. We currently have 3 of them.

I have teenage drivers and they love the electric vehicles. They don't like driving the gas powered vehicles because it costs them real money to put gas in the tank when they pull up to the gas station. My wife absolutely refuses to drive the gas powered vehicles because she simply thinks going to the gas station is a waste of time. She has calculated that electric cars save her 40 hours a year by not having to travel to the gas station and pump gas.


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## Leo.

Jay Dean said:


> If anyone thinks all this car pollution isn't ruining the planet is a moron, it takes everyone to get on board to save it. We are really screwing our selves over with gas powered cars and researchers from Time magazine say we have a whole lot less time then originally expected. By 2100 we will be doomed if we don't change, that much is true, so in a sense he is right, he had a chance to set the tone and the path to saving the planet but we continue to ruin the environment for greed.


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## Jay Dean

I'll just leave this here for you to debate with experts rather than weak ass articles and memes made by gas companies lol
http://time.com/5592583/sea-levels-rise-higher-study/
IN short if it doesn't come naturally it always has bad results, just like your diet I imagine lol


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## Tnasty

When spaceX gets starlink setup they will have an advantage over Google.


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## Uberselectmafiakiller

goneubering said:


> https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-is-dying-and-this-is-how-it-will-end/
> *Tesla is now doomed. Here's how its EV dream will soon come crashing down*
> 
> *WHY TESLA IS DOOMED*
> 
> The only way to be successful at car manufacturing is to do it at a very large scale. You have to sell hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cars per year to be stable. In 2018, Tesla shifted a total of 245,240 cars. The Model 3 also became the best-selling luxury automobile in United States. 2018 was a fantastic year for Tesla. It has also taken the company to the very brink of imploding.


fake news being put out by oil & gas to save their ass. also, by ******** wall street short sellers mainly whitney tilson to kill the stock price by promoting every small thing they can find.

case in point



Uberselectmafiakiller said:


> fake news being put out by oil & gas to save their ass. also, by @@@@@@@@ wall street short sellers mainly whitney tilson to kill the stock price by promoting every small thing they can find.
> 
> case in point


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## OldBay

Does anyone else find it strange that an egomaniac like Musk would name his company after another man?

The whole thing doesn't smell right, never did, never will.


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## goneubering

OldBay said:


> Does anyone else find it strange that an egomaniac like Musk would name his company after another man?
> 
> The whole thing doesn't smell right, never did, never will.


Tesla was a genius. Would you buy a car named Musk?


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## OldBay

goneubering said:


> Tesla was a genius. Would you buy a car named Musk?


Moral of story, copyright your name so some asshoLe can't posthumously profit from it.


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## Uberselectmafiakiller

OldBay said:


> Does anyone else find it strange that an egomaniac like Musk would name his company after another man?
> 
> The whole thing doesn't smell right, never did, never will.


we all remember that idiot steve jobs who named a company after a fruit. what an idiot that clown was.


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## Kevin.G

... those that deny science actually rely upon that same science to tell everyone they deny science.... after all they are doing so through the internet by way of their smart phone, tablet and or computer all of which are direct products of science... there is word that aptly describes this common human phenomena, hypocrite


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

uberdriverfornow said:


> even though SDC's will never happen i don't think tesla is going away
> 
> the electric vehicle itself appears to be a great car if they can figure out how to make them stop exploding and stop telling drivers that the autopilot works
> 
> i think investors will keep pumping money in


What's more like to happen is a large car manufacturer buys Tesla for cheap.

Tesla has a revolutionary product but very questionable decision making.


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## Kevin.G

Will Tesla go out of business... not too likely, but ya never know.

That point has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fate of EV's or the inevitability of SDC's.


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## losiglow

I'm fairly conservative in my political views but there's no doubt that global warming_ is_ happening and that it _does_ have an effect on the planet. The only thing that's debatable (or at least not entirely conclusive in the scientific community) is the exact effect it will have long term. Some believe it will be a scenario like "The Day after Tomorrow" and others think it will be like Waterworld. We don't know exactly.

And SDC's are inevitable. I don't believe it will happen nearly as soon as some say, but it will happen eventually.


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## goneubering

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> What's more like to happen is a large car manufacturer buys Tesla for cheap.
> 
> Tesla has a revolutionary product but very questionable decision making.


Stock closed at $178.97 today.


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## Single Malt

goneubering said:


> https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-is-dying-and-this-is-how-it-will-end/
> *Tesla is now doomed. Here's how its EV dream will soon come crashing down*
> 
> *WHY TESLA IS DOOMED*
> 
> The only way to be successful at car manufacturing is to do it at a very large scale. You have to sell hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cars per year to be stable. In 2018, Tesla shifted a total of 245,240 cars. The Model 3 also became the best-selling luxury automobile in United States. 2018 was a fantastic year for Tesla. It has also taken the company to the very brink of imploding.


Ferrari makes 8k cars a year.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

Single Malt said:


> Ferrari makes 8k cars a year.


Ferrari is all high end sports cars.

Tesla seems to be in the middle of an identity crisis. It doesn't know if it wants to be Toyota, bmw, or Porsche.

Personally I believe they should be something like bmw. On the road I see countless barebones i3s, they are Honda's with a bmw logo but they are affordable to most people.

The cheaper Tesla's would keep them stable and the very expensive Tesla's would be the money makers. Hence the model 3 failure was in my opinion a bad turning point for Tesla


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## Single Malt

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Ferrari is all high end sports cars.
> 
> Tesla seems to be in the middle of an identity crisis. It doesn't know if it wants to be Toyota, bmw, or Porsche.
> 
> Personally I believe they should be something like bmw. On the road I see countless barebones i3s, they are Honda's with a bmw logo but they are affordable to most people.
> 
> The cheaper Tesla's would keep them stable and the very expensive Tesla's would be the money makers. Hence the model 3 failure was in my opinion a bad turning point for Tesla


Tesla's only chance would have been as an electric Ferrari. A high-end niche car maker. Tesla had zero chance of competing with the established car makers that've been around for a hundred years. The business model was effed from the beginning and Tesla has never made a yearly profit. The only reason it's taken this long for them to bleed out is because Musk is a pretty good conman.



Kevin.G said:


> Will Tesla go out of business... not too likely, but ya never know.
> 
> That point has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fate of EV's or the inevitability of SDC's.


Chance Tesla goes out of business is 100 percent. They're structurally BK already. The chance someone buys Tesla before they go BK is zero. No one is stupid enough to tie themselves to Tesla's liabilities.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/06/04/teslas-going-to-have-to-restructure-says-blaine-capital.html


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## U/L guy

OldBay said:


> Does anyone else find it strange that an egomaniac like Musk would name his company after another man?
> 
> The whole thing doesn't smell right, never did, never will.


Would you rather drive a Musk. Branding has a lot to do with marketing,


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## Single Malt

Jay Dean said:


> If anyone thinks all this car pollution isn't ruining the planet is a moron, it takes everyone to get on board to save it. We are really screwing our selves over with gas powered cars and researchers from Time magazine say we have a whole lot less time then originally expected. By 2100 we will be doomed if we don't change, that much is true, so in a sense he is right, he had a chance to set the tone and the path to saving the planet but we continue to ruin the environment for greed.


Spare us the "it takes a village speech." Time magazine was fearmongering about global cooling back in 1977. Stop being such a dupe.
https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2017/05/Time_magazine_ice_age_cover_feature.jpg?resize=865,452


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## Z129

OldBay said:


> Does anyone else find it strange that an egomaniac like Musk would name his company after another man?
> 
> The whole thing doesn't smell right, never did, never will.


Tesla was founded in 2003 by American entrepreneurs Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning. Musk was an early investor (30+ million) and came aboard as CEO in 2008. -- Google

And yeah, who wants to drive a Musk.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

Single Malt said:


> Tesla's only chance would have been as an electric Ferrari. A high-end niche car maker. Tesla had zero chance of competing with the established car makers that've been around for a hundred years. The business model was effed from the beginning and Tesla has never made a yearly profit. The only reason it's taken this long for them to bleed out is because Musk is a pretty good conman.
> 
> 
> Chance Tesla goes out of business is 100 percent. They're structurally BK already. The chance someone buys Tesla before they go BK is zero. No one is stupid enough to tie themselves to Tesla's liabilities.
> https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/06/04/teslas-going-to-have-to-restructure-says-blaine-capital.html


If Tesla becomes penny stock someone will buy them out right.


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## goneubering

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> If Tesla becomes penny stock someone will buy them out right.


Here's a surprise.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...urce-of-cash-unmasked-as-gm-and-fiat-chrysler
*GM and Fiat Chrysler Unmasked as Tesla's Secret Source of Cash*
By 
Miles Weiss
and 
David Welch
June 3, 2019


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

goneubering said:


> Here's a surprise.
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...urce-of-cash-unmasked-as-gm-and-fiat-chrysler
> *GM and Fiat Chrysler Unmasked as Tesla's Secret Source of Cash*
> By
> Miles Weiss
> and
> David Welch
> June 3, 2019


Well Tesla's already have the standard of reliability of the Chrysler group


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## Uberselectmafiakiller

goneubering said:


> Stock closed at $178.97 today.


so what? apple stock closed at 178. explain what the **** your point is?



Single Malt said:


> Tesla's only chance would have been as an electric Ferrari. A high-end niche car maker. Tesla had zero chance of competing with the established car makers that've been around for a hundred years. The business model was effed from the beginning and Tesla has never made a yearly profit. The only reason it's taken this long for them to bleed out is because Musk is a pretty good conman.
> 
> 
> Chance Tesla goes out of business is 100 percent. They're structurally BK already. The chance someone buys Tesla before they go BK is zero. No one is stupid enough to tie themselves to Tesla's liabilities.
> https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/06/04/teslas-going-to-have-to-restructure-says-blaine-capital.html


you are 100% a moron and anyone that listens to your opinion will go 100% bankrupt. oh i forgot your an uber driver. no one listens to anything you have say anyway.


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## RabbleRouser

Seriously ?
I WISH I had Elon Musk's problems

https://www.private-jet-fan.com/elon-musk-jet.html


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## goneubering

https://www.ibtimes.com/teslas-repu...ployees-musk-approval-rating-drops-38-2799536
*Tesla's Reputation Takes A Beating From Employees, Musk Approval Rating Drops 38%*

Once revered as a great company to work for, Tesla is becoming a less than popular first choice for employment. New data from LinkedIn and Glassdoor affirms ever widening employee dissatisfaction with Tesla amid a string of bad news about layoffs, strategy shifts, financial pains and high executive turnover.


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## Alexxx_Uber

Based on my experience, most the Tesla drivers pissing me off. They drive arrogantly and like they own the street. They push and tailgate you. 
Just my experience on the majority of the Tesla drivers (not all).


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## Uberselectmafiakiller

Alexxx_Uber said:


> Based on my experience, most the Tesla drivers pissing me off. They drive arrogantly and like they own the street. They push and tailgate you.
> Just my experience on the majority of the Tesla drivers (not all).


same idiot philosophy people like you believed about apple at turn of the century.



goneubering said:


> https://www.ibtimes.com/teslas-repu...ployees-musk-approval-rating-drops-38-2799536
> *Tesla's Reputation Takes A Beating From Employees, Musk Approval Rating Drops 38%*
> 
> Once revered as a great company to work for, Tesla is becoming a less than popular first choice for employment. New data from LinkedIn and Glassdoor affirms ever widening employee dissatisfaction with Tesla amid a string of bad news about layoffs, strategy shifts, financial pains and high executive turnover.


same stupid ideology people believed about apple. We all know how much of a bunch of idiots that trillion dollar company is now.

same ole fear based ignorance.


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## nosurgenodrive

goneubering said:


> https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-is-dying-and-this-is-how-it-will-end/
> *Tesla is now doomed. Here's how its EV dream will soon come crashing down*
> 
> *WHY TESLA IS DOOMED*
> 
> The only way to be successful at car manufacturing is to do it at a very large scale. You have to sell hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cars per year to be stable. In 2018, Tesla shifted a total of 245,240 cars. The Model 3 also became the best-selling luxury automobile in United States. 2018 was a fantastic year for Tesla. It has also taken the company to the very brink of imploding.


Fuel cell cars are the future. Honda and Toyota have dumped all of their money on that bet.


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## Alexxx_Uber

Uberselectmafiakiller said:


> same idiot philosophy people like you believed about apple at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> same stupid ideology people believed about apple. We all know how much of a bunch of idiots that trillion dollar company is now.
> 
> same ole fear based ignorance.





Uberselectmafiakiller said:


> same idiot philosophy people like you believed about apple at turn of the century.


??
Was that English?


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## Kevin.G

Tesla is not "crashing down". Fluctuations in the market are normal, almost all major corps have had the same roller coaster ride in their history too.


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## Thepeoplewearent

The guy that got rockets to land themselves can turn out cars until PayPal stops turning a profit.

This dude ain't your average everyday run of the millionaire. He likes to science for the sake of the race at large.

Frankly I wouldn't bet in any direction when it comes to this dude. Just watch and see for a spectacular show.



Uberselectmafiakiller said:


> same idiot philosophy people like you believed about apple at turn of the century.
> 
> 
> same stupid ideology people believed about apple. We all know how much of a bunch of idiots that trillion dollar company is now.
> 
> same ole fear based ignorance.


Apple owners are still a bunch of entitled ******bags with no perception of the reality beneath their actions because they're emboldened by their "better than you" veneer (which is all Apple, Tesla, or Off White have to offer).


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## U/L guy

The primary reason that electric or other alternative powered vehicles will be the main means of transportation is that fossil fuels will eventually be depleted.


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## Uberselectmafiakiller

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Ferrari is all high end sports cars.
> 
> Tesla seems to be in the middle of an identity crisis. It doesn't know if it wants to be Toyota, bmw, or Porsche.
> 
> Personally I believe they should be something like bmw. On the road I see countless barebones i3s, they are Honda's with a bmw logo but they are affordable to most people.
> 
> The cheaper Tesla's would keep them stable and the very expensive Tesla's would be the money makers. Hence the model 3 failure was in my opinion a bad turning point for Tesla


model 3 failure?? umm you need to do your research bud. they shipped 5,000 model 3's per week the last 8 weeks. also, they are now delivering 1,000 model 3's per day 7k per week now. going to sell 300,000 tesla's this year.

This is the best selling car in history in any country.

Your facts are 100% wrong i'm sorry to inform you.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

Uberselectmafiakiller said:


> model 3 failure?? umm you need to do your research bud. they shipped 5,000 model 3's per week the last 8 weeks. also, they are now delivering 1,000 model 3's per day 7k per week now. going to sell 300,000 tesla's this year.
> 
> This is the best selling car in history in any country.
> 
> Your facts are 100% wrong i'm sorry to inform you.


You just made all that up ?

Tesla didn't even crack the top 25 last year. The model 3 had a few bright months this year but a shadow of what it could have been if they were able to get cost under control.


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## Single Malt

Uberselectmafiakiller said:


> model 3 failure?? umm you need to do your research bud. they shipped 5,000 model 3's per week the last 8 weeks. also, they are now delivering 1,000 model 3's per day 7k per week now. going to sell 300,000 tesla's this year.
> 
> This is the best selling car in history in any country.
> 
> Your facts are 100% wrong i'm sorry to inform you.


Only 300k means bankruptcy. But they're already structurally bk now.


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## Uberselectmafiakiller

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> You just made all that up ?
> 
> Tesla didn't even crack the top 25 last year. The model 3 had a few bright months this year but a shadow of what it could have been if they were able to get cost under control.
> 
> View attachment 329383


you googled honda's sales numbers? great research. your a moron.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

Uberselectmafiakiller said:


> you googled honda's sales numbers? great research. your a moron.


Name calling won't change the numbers. Here is the same numbers under a more generic search.


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## U/L guy

Tesla won’t go bankrupt, Wall Street will bail them out with other people’s money.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

U/L guy said:


> Tesla won't go bankrupt, Wall Street will bail them out with other people's money.


Someone's gonna buy them imho. Apple previous offer is probably looking tempting by now.


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## Single Malt

Uberselectmafiakiller said:


> your a moron.


Safety tip: always spell check before trying to call someone a moron.


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## itendstonight

Bob Reynolds said:


> Most people, including myself, have other vehicles in addition to the electric vehicles. Those are the vehicles that take gas. Those gas powered vehicles usually sit in the garage most of the time while we drive the electric vehicles. However we do bring the gas powered vehicles out when those vehicles are more suitable for the task. For example, electric vehicles do not work well for Uber or Lyft for a number of reasons. Electric vehicles do not work well if you are going on a long road trip.
> 
> But most of the time, we are driving our electric vehicles. The reason for this is because most trips are short. Most of the time we charge our vehicles at home. Once in a while we'll be out all day in one of them and charge while we are out. There are charging stations all around the area where we live and drive and we know where they are.
> 
> The average driver puts about 12,000 miles a year on their vehicle (gas or electric). That works out to about 33 miles per day. So there is no need to use the gas powered vehicle unless that trip is going to exceed the mileage travel capacity of the electric vehicle.
> 
> As far as your question with the hurricane issue, we live in Florida and did have to evacuate during Hurricane Irma. We drove the gas powered Toyota out of Florida and left the Electric Vehicles in the garage. The Toyota doesn't get driven much these days, (probably less than 100 miles a month) but it's there, as a backup, if we need it.
> 
> I've always said that a one car household is not a good candidate for an electric vehicle. However if there is more than one car is a household then an electric vehicle is a smart choice for at least one of those vehicles. That's how we started into EV's in 2012. We currently have 3 of them.
> 
> I have teenage drivers and they love the electric vehicles. They don't like driving the gas powered vehicles because it costs them real money to put gas in the tank when they pull up to the gas station. My wife absolutely refuses to drive the gas powered vehicles because she simply thinks going to the gas station is a waste of time. She has calculated that electric cars save her 40 hours a year by not having to travel to the gas station and pump gas.


Wtf is your wife doing at gas stations? I feel up once a week, takes 3 mins tops. All on the way somewhere, so no wasted tome


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## Single Malt

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Someone's gonna buy them imho. Apple previous offer is probably looking tempting by now.


No one will even touch Tesla with a ten foot pole. The balance sheet is a clusterfudge and the liabilities are off the charts.


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## Uberselectmafiakiller

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Someone's gonna buy them imho. Apple previous offer is probably looking tempting by now.


a soon to be trillion dollar company selling for 220 million yeah that makes tons of sense. 
i bet apple really regrets not selling their trillion dollar company to microsoft in 1997 when they were 90 days away from bankruptcy.

i'm sure every employee at apple is banging their head against the wall that they didn't sell for almost nothing.



Single Malt said:


> Safety tip: always spell check before trying to call someone a moron.


simplifying my life. "you're" feel better moron?



TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Name calling won't change the numbers. Here is the same numbers under a more generic search.
> 
> View attachment 329500


someone with metropcs who doesn't even have good enough credit to get a real cell carrier.

NEEDS A DISCOUNT CELL PHONE!! omg i'm dying laughing.


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## Wrb06wrx

The future is electric vehicles, yes but it will take time for the battery tech to get where it needs to be I do not own one nor will I buy one until they can make 400+ miles on a single charge.

My 12 passat repeatedly does 400+ miles on 87 mixed city highway driving I have seen as good as 470 with a more highway bias


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

Uberselectmafiakiller said:


> a soon to be trillion dollar company selling for 220 million yeah that makes tons of sense.
> i bet apple really regrets not selling their trillion dollar company to microsoft in 1997 when they were 90 days away from bankruptcy.
> 
> i'm sure every employee at apple is banging their head against the wall that they didn't sell for almost nothing.
> 
> 
> simplifying my life. "you're" feel better moron?
> 
> 
> someone with metropcs who doesn't even have good enough credit to get a real cell carrier.
> 
> NEEDS A DISCOUNT CELL PHONE!! omg i'm dying laughing.


Someone smart enough to not use credit for a cell phone ?

Like I said name calling isn't going to get you anywhere. If you believe Tesla is doing better than what's reported, construct an educated thought and put it into a sentence.


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## Uberselectmafiakiller

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Someone smart enough to not use credit for a cell phone ?
> 
> Like I said name calling isn't going to get you anywhere. If you believe Tesla is doing better than what's reported, construct an educated thought and put it into a sentence.


nice try bud. i don't use credit but i have credit. enjoy your 50k a year broke life. my last vacation in fiji i spent 22k almost half your salary.


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## JaredJ

Digital Trends is for click-throughs and Amazon-tagged referral codes.

Pay for the WSJ and stop linking garb.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

Uberselectmafiakiller said:


> nice try bud. i don't use credit but i have credit. enjoy your 50k a year broke life. my last vacation in fiji i spent 22k almost half your salary.


Im happy for you. Any more insults you want to sling at a complete stranger online?


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## Bubsie

itendstonight said:


> Wtf is your wife doing at gas stations? I feel up once a week, takes 3 mins tops. All on the way somewhere, so no wasted tome


Yeah 40 hours per year at gas stations, basically 45 mins per week filling up? Lets assume 5 mins for a full tank...maybe she drives 100k+ miles per year?


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## OldBay

Jay Dean said:


> If anyone thinks all this car pollution isn't ruining the planet is a moron, it takes everyone to get on board to save it. We are really screwing our selves over with gas powered cars and researchers from Time magazine say we have a whole lot less time then originally expected. By 2100 we will be doomed if we don't change, that much is true, so in a sense he is right, he had a chance to set the tone and the path to saving the planet but we continue to ruin the environment for greed.


Sadly, the only long term solution is to limit population growth.

If we can halve everyone's carbon footprint, that means we have just delayed the inevitable by 80 years.


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## Jay Dean

OldBay said:


> Sadly, the only long term solution is to limit population growth.
> 
> If we can halve everyone's carbon footprint, that means we have just delayed the inevitable by 80 years.


No, wtf no man lol...Jesus


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## RabbleRouser

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/02/tesla-q2-2019-production-and-delivery-numbers.html


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## RabbleRouser

goneubering said:


> https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/tesla-is-dying-and-this-is-how-it-will-end/
> *Tesla is now doomed. Here's how its EV dream will soon come crashing down*
> 
> *WHY TESLA IS DOOMED*
> 
> The only way to be successful at car manufacturing is to do it at a very large scale. You have to sell hundreds of thousands, if not millions of cars per year to be stable. In 2018, Tesla shifted a total of 245,240 cars. The Model 3 also became the best-selling luxury automobile in United States. 2018 was a fantastic year for Tesla. It has also taken the company to the very brink of imploding.


https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-more-production-hiring-fremont-report/


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## Ssgcraig

Jay Dean said:


> If anyone thinks all this car pollution isn't ruining the planet is a moron, it takes everyone to get on board to save it. We are really screwing our selves over with gas powered cars and researchers from Time magazine say we have a whole lot less time then originally expected. By 2100 we will be doomed if we don't change, that much is true, so in a sense he is right, he had a chance to set the tone and the path to saving the planet but we continue to ruin the environment for greed.


Yes, everyone. If you think the US doesn't lead the world in cutting CO2 emissions, you're a moron.


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## Uberselectmafiakiller

Ssgcraig said:


> Yes, everyone. If you think the US doesn't lead the world in cutting CO2 emissions, you're a moron.


actually that's incorrect. Norway is the cutting edge of cutting c02 emissions.


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## Ssgcraig

Uberselectmafiakiller said:


> actually that's incorrect. Norway is the cutting edge of cutting c02 emissions.


Not from what I read


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## goneubering

This is a long article but it points out how shaky Musk is as a businessman who can be trusted.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/how-elon-musk-gambled-tesla-to-save-solarcity
But over the years, many skeptics have come to see Musk's stunts-from smoking pot during an interview to calling a diver who helped rescue kids trapped in a Thailand cave a "pedo guy"-as more unhinged than iconoclastic. One close observer of Musk recalls how he promised, back in 2001, to give away half of his equity in PayPal-dividing it evenly between "the people that have worked hard to build the company" and "causes I believe make the world a better place." But Musk never made good on the pledge, and the observer came to see the episode as "symbolic of Musk's penchant for making grandiose statements that he either knows are not true at the time he makes them, or that he has no real intent of following through on." Others see Musk's promises as purposefully manipulative. "Musk has a habit of overstating Tesla's operational capabilities and its prospects for profitability, especially when the company is preparing to raise capital, collect customer deposits, or secure regulatory benefits," says Brian Horey of Aurelian Partners, an investment firm.


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## Bubsie

Anyone else see the story where seven Walmart stores roofs out of 200+ installed caught on fire from defective Tesla solar systems?

https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-joins-walmart-tesla-solar-panels-roof-fires-2019-8
Apparently the SolarCity venture has been a collosal failure with the buffalo factory well below full production.


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## goneubering

Bubsie said:


> Anyone else see the story where seven Walmart stores roofs out of 200+ installed caught on fire from defective Tesla solar systems?
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-joins-walmart-tesla-solar-panels-roof-fires-2019-8
> Apparently the SolarCity venture has been a collosal failure with the buffalo factory well below full production.


Bad news from all sides.


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## tohunt4me

Bob Reynolds said:


> I would not write Tesla off. Just like I won't write Nissan off. Nissan produced the first mass produced electric vehicle. (The Nissan Leaf)
> 
> Even though the Nissan Leaf has sold more electric vehicles than anyone else, including Tesla; the Nissan Leaf has been a challenge to purchase for anyone but the most determined consumer.
> 
> When you walk into a Nissan dealership, the last car they want to sell you is a Nissan Leaf. The salesman will do everything they can to talk you into one of their gas powered vehicles. In addition, since the Nissan Leaf is so reliable and does not require hardly any service; it does not provide income (or jobs) for the dealership service department.
> 
> All of us that drive Nissan Leafs have received cards and/or phone calls from the Nissan dealer service departments that offer us a free oil change. The problem is that the Nissan Leaf doesn't have any oil that you can change. It's an electric car. It competes with Nissan's other vehicles and the dealer makes less money with the Nissan Leaf and has to put in a $40,000 high speed charging station (which requires maintenance) in order to qualify to sell the Nissan Leaf. The specially trained Nissan Leaf mechanic in the back is like the Maytag repairman. He doesn't have any Nissan Leafs to repair.
> 
> This same pattern with Nissan is repeated with every other car manufacturer at this time with the exception of Tesla. No other manufacturer has the depth of sales that the Nissan Leaf has. No other manufacturer really wants to sell the electric cars. They would rather sell you a standard gasoline powered vehicle. So the sales of electric vehicles are suppressed. The only thing driving sales of electric vehicles is consumer demand. The problem is that all of these manufacturers (except Nissan and Tesla) are selling just a few thousand electric cars. There will be a lot of orphaned EV vehicles from the other manufacturers that will be difficult to get serviced and get parts for in the future. GM has already stopped making the VOLT.
> 
> Tesla, on the other hand is not competing with itself. Tesla only has electric vehicles. This is a major advantage that no other manufacturer has.
> 
> As someone that drives and owns electric vehicles, I learned a long time ago to listen to the folks that actually own, drive and understand these vehicles. The folks that do not own and drive them do not understand these vehicles and have no logical basis for any real or valid opinion regarding electric vehicles.


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## sellkatsell44

Is sun city under a complete different umbrella or under Tesla umbrella?

Not really the cars that matter imho, although I guess Tesla looks cool.

Battery and renewable energy.

That’s why I looked into bills company but that’s a long game.


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## goneubering

sellkatsell44 said:


> Is sun city under a complete different umbrella or under Tesla umbrella?
> 
> Not really the cars that matter imho, although I guess Tesla looks cool.
> 
> Battery and renewable energy.
> 
> That's why I looked into bills company but that's a long game.


https://www.fastcompany.com/4042207...-for-teslas-future-not-to-mention-the-planets


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## sellkatsell44

goneubering said:


> https://www.fastcompany.com/4042207...-for-teslas-future-not-to-mention-the-planets


I thought I remember reading this awhile back.

The problem is scaling.. as folks can see with Tesla and also solar panels.


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## goneubering

sellkatsell44 said:


> I thought I remember reading this awhile back.
> 
> The problem is scaling.. as folks can see with Tesla and also solar panels.


I would like to see Tesla survive and thrive as a company. I think Musk is a genius but I'm concerned his erratic behavior will eventually destroy much of what he's built.


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## sellkatsell44

goneubering said:


> I would like to see Tesla survive and thrive as a company. I think Musk is a genius but I'm concerned his erratic behavior will eventually destroy much of what he's built.


I know, but truth be told usually the crazy ones are the geniuses.

As someone who would like to see us pull back on carbon footprint, and sustainable sources...
What do you think of nuclear power, eg gates and his terra power?


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## Fuzzyelvis

Fozzie said:


> Says the guy that says he owns multiple EVs but doesn't understand that if that hurricane did hit, you'd have no electricity with which to charge your cars.
> 
> If the power goes out and I only have the stuff in my gas tank, I can travel approx 550 miles to an area that is operational. How far would you get in your EVs?


Have you ever tried going anywhere in an area that's just been hit by a hurricane bad enough to knock out all the power? It's either flooded or there's debris everywhere, or both.

Maybe the folks with the electric vehicles are smart enough to have evacuated ahead of time?



Leo. said:


> View attachment 324331
> View attachment 324332
> View attachment 324333
> View attachment 324334
> View attachment 324331
> View attachment 324332
> View attachment 324333
> View attachment 324334
> 
> 
> View attachment 324336
> View attachment 324337
> View attachment 324338
> View attachment 324337
> View attachment 324338
> View attachment 324340
> View attachment 324341


Yeah, this started with the industrial revolution.


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## goneubering

sellkatsell44 said:


> I know, but truth be told usually the crazy ones are the geniuses.
> 
> As someone who would like to see us pull back on carbon footprint, and sustainable sources...
> What do you think of nuclear power, eg gates and his terra power?


I don't know about Gates except he's super smart and rich. Will have to read up on what he's doing.

After a quick scan of their site it doesn't seem like Terrapower is actually producing any power yet.

Fir the good of the planet I wish them success but I'm not happy to read about them working with China.

https://terrapower.com/about


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## sellkatsell44

goneubering said:


> I don't know about Gates except he's super smart and rich. Will have to read up on what he's doing.
> 
> After a quick scan of their site it doesn't seem like Terrapower is actually producing any power yet.
> 
> Fir the good of the planet I wish them success but I'm not happy to read about them working with China.
> 
> https://terrapower.com/about


They haven't yet and being in China did pose problems but the idea of using nuclear...


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## Coastal_Cruiser

Tesla has powerful enemies (as in Dark Side powerful). But victory over EVs is not assured. Witness....

In a secret rebel base plans are being made as part of a last ditch effort to thwart the upcoming release of the Model 3. Toward that end, the most entrenched evil force in the galaxy hires Darth Vader as its spokesman. Vader coaxes Elon Musk into a Tesla test drive. Darth picks the Model X because he digs the falcon wing doors:

Vader to Musk after a demonstration of Ludicrous mode: "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you have constructed. The ability to go 0-60 in 3.2 seconds is insignificant next to the power of the ICE Fleet-- I mean The Force."

Elon back at Vader: "Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Big Oi-- I mean Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to fossil fuels hasn't helped you conjure up a peaceful world, or heal a sick planet."

Vader, (trying to put a force choke on Elon): "I find your lack of faith in the infernal combustion engin-- wait, I mean I find your lack of faith in my catatonic converters disturb-- no, wait. WTF! How come my Force choke is having no effect? Are you like, a Toydarian or something??"

A defiant Musk: "No dude. It's because you have no real power. My initials stand for Electric Motor. IT IS MY DESTINY! Fate trumps your girlie-man force fantasy by a parsec... sissy boy."

Vader: "Huh? What!? Did you hear that everyone? He called me a sissy. I'll show you..." (Vader pulls out his light saber, but due to the counter-force of all the nearby parked Teslas the beam only extends half way, then limply droops toward the floor. Vader drops to one knee, breaks out in tears, and starts calling for his mother.

Musk: "Some Sith lord. Now sit DOWN and shut UP! My [sales] force is taking over the galaxy from here on out."


----------

