# Can someone explain the "New Surge" vs the "Old Surge" ?



## IERide (Jul 1, 2016)

Can anyone break down/explain this "new surge", comparing it to the "old" surge?
I've seen several posts about how "it sucks!" and "Uber is ripping us off!!" .. "I hate Uber because of the new surge!!!..but i still drive everyday" and lots of other whining and name-calling.... But I have seen nothing about WHY it's so bad compared to the "old" way and/or explaining why Uber says/thinks it's better ..

???
TIA ...


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

In a nutshell there is no multiplier with the new program. It’s strictly the addition of small numbers in a surge. Short trips are better than long ones. They basically killed the benefit of medium to long distance trips in a surge. Uber always thinks their new programs are better.


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## Spork24 (Feb 5, 2018)

Its a lot better for the CUSTOMER. Think of it this way, you have a decent 30m+ trip, you're at a surge area of 3x or more... it would be a lot cheaper to pay for a ride out of the surge area then catch a new ride the rest of your way. Sure it would be a hassle but if you're going far enough and have high enough surge the difference is great... as a driver I would prefer they get 2 rides, let me get back to my surge area but I do understand the change.

Now the customer pays the upfront price of getting out of the surge area... What happens when all areas are surging? Drivers get screwed unless I missed something.


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## Uberduber420 (Jan 12, 2017)

Spork24 said:


> Its a lot better for the CUSTOMER. Think of it this way, you have a decent 30m+ trip, you're at a surge area of 3x or more... it would be a lot cheaper to pay for a ride out of the surge area then catch a new ride the rest of your way. Sure it would be a hassle but if you're going far enough and have high enough surge the difference is great... as a driver I would prefer they get 2 rides, let me get back to my surge area but I do understand the change.
> 
> Now the customer pays the upfront price of getting out of the surge area... What happens when all areas are surging? Drivers get screwed unless I missed something.


It's better for UBER. riders still pay the same amount. So now instead of getting 75$ out of 100$ the rider paid on a 2.5 surge rides we will only get 35 while uber keeps the rest. It really is a massive pay cut.

Uber really is the scum of the earth


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## Failed Login (Nov 13, 2017)

The rider still pays the multiplier which is usually much more that the fixed dollar we receive. In Charlotte, in month 8... the surge areas start with $1 on the outer rings and usually work their way up. Sometimes the whole area is $1. So on a minimum trip of $3.50, that's 1.3X. And the equivalent multiplier goes down for the driver from there. $1 on a $10 fare is 1.1, etc. Usually late on Saturday nights, the surge areas go up as high as $4-$5 until right at 2am. Then it will often hit around $10-$15 max. That's for about 20 minutes fluctuating around $8-whatever the high is $10-$15. You get one trip at that rate. So your surge amount is always capped. I've taken many 24-30 minute trips during surges and received $2 or $3 surge. That's 1.1x on a $20 fare. Do you guys get a lot of 1.1x surges? Even on a $10 fare a high $7 surge is 1.7x and $7 is a high one. 

Live I've noted before, you'll end up with a lot more rides where you lose vs Uber losing. I've yet ot have a ride where Uber made nothing, which you'd expect a few if you get a $10 surge and it turns out to be a minimum ride. That's because they know what they're doing when they price the fixed amount. A $10 surge appears to be the equivalent of a 3.5x to 4x. So the minimum fare for the rider would be $19.25 ($5.50 x 3.5) and the driver would make $13.50 ($3.50 + $10). So you see how it works? If that is an average trip here of about $8 for driver (12 for rider), Uber would make $42 and driver would make $18 ($8 + $10). So Uber charges 3.5x and driver makes 1.8x. Does that make sense? This is very typical other than the surge being $10, so you usually make the equivalent of a much lower multiplier. There are very real scenarios and examples that happen every Saturday night here. 

Additionally, what is lost in this is, I've always experienced a significant decrease in number of tips during surge rides as the customer is already paying more and knows it. They also assume we are making a good bit more, so they don't tip. So I've lost out on that aspect as well. 

Does that help?


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## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

Not in our market yet but anyway....So instead of a multiplier, there will be zones where the $ amount will increase. I pick up Sally at x bar and the surge says $5. I receive $5 dollars tacked on to what the regular fare would of been. That's it? Distance means nothing? Except for the base rate?


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## Spork24 (Feb 5, 2018)

a lot of people trying to math it up... and i mean trying lol.

uber already takes 50%... this is nothing new.



Uberduber420 said:


> It's better for UBER. riders still pay the same amount. So now instead of getting 75$ out of 100$ the rider paid on a 2.5 surge rides we will only get 35 while uber keeps the rest. It really is a massive pay cut.
> 
> Uber really is the scum of the earth


you haven't been getting 75/100 in a long time buddy... where have you been?


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## Failed Login (Nov 13, 2017)

kdyrpr said:


> Not in our market yet but anyway....So instead of a multiplier, there will be zones where the $ amount will increase. I pick up Sally at x bar and the surge says $5. I receive $5 dollars tacked on to what the regular fare would of been. That's it? Distance means nothing? Except for the base rate?


Correct, you get the normal distance and time fare, plus the fixed surge. This is whether the ride is 2 miles or 50.


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## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

So I guess we can kiss these rides goodbye...Unless they end up having $50 zones


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## pvtandrewmalone (Oct 2, 2016)

kdyrpr said:


> So I guess we can kiss these rides goodbye...Unless they end up having $50 zones
> 
> View attachment 231877


Exactly.

Riders will still pay for rides like that, but instead of $70 for surge, the driver will get base+$7 and Uber keeps the rest.

See how much of a shit sandwich this is?


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## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

This is just another step in Uber's plan to eliminate veteran drivers who wait for Surge and make twice as much in half the time as newbie ants


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## Spork24 (Feb 5, 2018)

Failed Login said:


> Does that help?


would help if you just showed a trip detail report...

I think a lot of people have it wrong.


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## Skorpio (Oct 17, 2017)

Old surge = Only motivation to drive
New surge = Uber ask us to bend over and dont add lube.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

Uber will try to put some positive spin on this like it’s easier to add than it is to multiply. I have no problem with multiplication.


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## Failed Login (Nov 13, 2017)

Spork24 said:


> would help if you just showed a trip detail report...
> 
> I think a lot of people have it wrong.


I think you have it wrong but just my opinion. Have you experienced it yet? Are you now an expert in the "new" program? Just curious.... You're a tough crowd and very skeptical. Must have trust issues or insecure. Here you go, my phone won't take screen shots as my company has features locked down, so trust me or don't I don't give a rat's a$$. If any of you other Charlotte folks have screen shots, feel free to validate how sucky the program is to this unbeliever. Better yet, we could just let him learn the hard way like we did. Just trying to help, dude, I really could care less if you believe me or not. Some of us like to add value to the forum and not just get on here and criticize and say folks are lying. Are you going to add value or just cast stone. I say, let him that cast the first stone aim straight up. I think that applies here. Do you see any current drivers in this program contradicting my examples?

FWIW - Here are my last 6-7 surges, the only surges I've received this month during my 2 Saturday night trips and one from a Monday morning trip on the way to the airport. Take them or leave them, I don't care.

You Receive
Base Fare $0.82
Distance (8.33 mi x $0.6075/mi) $5.06
Time (14.15 min x $.1125/min) $1.59
Surge $4.25
Total* $11.72*

Rider Pays
Rider Price $29.65
Rider Payment *$29.65*

Uber Receives
Service Fee $15.28
Booking Fee $2.65
Total *$17.93*

You Receive
Base Fare $0.83
Distance (2.73mi x $.6075/mi) $1.66
Time (10.02 min x $.1125/min) $1.12
Surge $1.25
Total *$4.86*

Driver Pays
Rider Price $8.98
Rider Payment *$8.98*

Uber Receives
Service Fee $1.47
Booking Fee $2.65
Total *$4.12*

You Receive
Base Fare $0.82
Distance (21.42mi x $.6075/mi) $13.01
Time (26.02 min x $.1125/min) $2.93
Surge $2.75
Wait Time (1.63 min x $.1875/min) $0.31
Total *$19.82*

Rider Pays
Rider Price $41.27
Rider Payment *$41.27*

Uber Receives $19.05
Service Fee $2.40
Booking Fee *$21.45*

You Receive $0.83
Distance (12.4mi x $.6075/mi) $7.54
Time (22.50min x $.1125/min) $2.53
Surge $2
Total *$12.90*

Rider Pays
Rider Price $22.39
Rider Payment *$22.39*

Uber Receives
Service Fee $7.09
Booking Fee $2.40
Total *$9.49*

You Receive
Base Fare $0.82
Distance (18.65 mi x $.6075/mi) $11.32
Time (22.02 min x $.1125/min) $2.48
Tip $5.00
Surge $1.25
Total *$20.87*

Rider Pays
Rider Price $31.11
Tip $5.00
Rider Payment *$36.11*

Uber Receives
Service Fee $12.59
Booking $2.65
Total *$15.24*

You Receive
Base Fare $0.82
Distance (7.04 mi x $.6075/mi) $4.27
Time (18.04min x $.1125/min) $2.02
Surge $6.50
Total *$13.61*

Rider Pays
Rider Price $49.35
Rider Payment *$49.35*

Uber Receives
Service Fee $33.34
Booking Fee $2.40
Total *$35.74*

You Receive
Base Fare $0.82
Distance (7.39mi x $.6075/mi) $4.49
Time (18.19min x $.1125/min) $2.05
Surge $3.00
Total *$10.36*

Rider Pays
Rider Price $21.53
Rider Payment *$21.53*

Uber Receives
Service Fee $8.77
Booking Fee $2.40
Total *$11.17*


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

Those are ugly numbers. I see a consistent single digit AR in my future.


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## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

Let the cherry picking begin...


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

1.5xorbust said:


> Uber will try to put some positive spin on this like it's easier to add than it is to multiply. I have no problem with multiplication.


They did. They mentioned old surge being too stressful and involving more guesswork. Also mentioned about having consistent earnings instead of relying on a "lucky" long surge trip


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## Spork24 (Feb 5, 2018)

Failed Login said:


> I think you have it wrong but just my opinion. Have you experienced it yet? Are you now an expert in the "new" program? Just curious.... You're a tough crowd and very skeptical. Must have trust issues or insecure. Here you go, my phone won't take screen shots as my company has features locked down, so trust me or don't I don't give a rat's a$$. If any of you other Charlotte folks have screen shots, feel free to validate how sucky the program is to this unbeliever. Better yet, we could just let him learn the hard way like we did. Just trying to help, dude, I really could care less if you believe me or not. Some of us like to add value to the forum and not just get on here and criticize and say folks are lying. Are you going to add value or just cast stone. I say, let him that cast the first stone aim straight up. I think that applies here. Do you see any current drivers in this program contradicting my examples?
> 
> FWIW - Here are my last 6-7 surges, the only surges I've received this month during my 2 Saturday night trips and one from a Monday morning trip on the way to the airport. Take them or leave them, I don't care.
> 
> ...


So why do you still drive for them? What have you done wrong in life to deserve this?


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

hulksmash said:


> They did. They mentioned old surge being too stressful and involving more guesswork. Also mentioned about having consistent earnings instead of relying on a "lucky" long surge trip


Uber could put a positive spin on a pile of dog shit.


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## Spork24 (Feb 5, 2018)

1.5xorbust said:


> Those are ugly numbers. I see a consistent single digit AR in my future.


only one of those look bad... the others are par for the course. not sure if you people have noticed but you dont get 75/25%... ever.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

Failed Login said:


> The rider still pays the multiplier which is usually much more that the fixed dollar we receive. In Charlotte, in month 8... the surge areas start with $1 on the outer rings and usually work their way up. Sometimes the whole area is $1. So on a minimum trip of $3.50, that's 1.3X. And the equivalent multiplier goes down for the driver from there. $1 on a $10 fare is 1.1, etc. Usually late on Saturday nights, the surge areas go up as high as $4-$5 until right at 2am. Then it will often hit around $10-$15 max. That's for about 20 minutes fluctuating around $8-whatever the high is $10-$15. You get one trip at that rate. So your surge amount is always capped. I've taken many 24-30 minute trips during surges and received $2 or $3 surge. That's 1.1x on a $20 fare. Do you guys get a lot of 1.1x surges? Even on a $10 fare a high $7 surge is 1.7x and $7 is a high one.


Why don't you guys just shut Uber off and do Lyft? Or just cancel their rides and ping you with them. If you tell them that Lyft pays you more without making it more expensive they will sympathize with you.

Is XL the same surges as X. If so our effective surge rates are lowered even worse than X drivers. Luckily I have another car I can use for X rides.


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## YourPrivateDriver (Jul 5, 2016)

hulksmash said:


> Why don't you guys just shut Uber off and do Lyft? Or just cancel their rides and ping you with them. If you tell them that Lyft pays you more without making it more expensive they will sympathize with you.
> 
> Is XL the same surges as X. If so our effective surge rates are lowered even worse than X drivers. Luckily I have another car I can use for X rides.


Lyft went to upfront primetime in Chicago. Only a matter of time before it spreads like the plague it is


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## easteuropeboy (Apr 9, 2016)

Uber will lose all 60+ rides I will call passengers and ask for cash with -30% off


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