# Injured on customer's property, who's responsible?



## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

After a year of doing Flex without any issues, I finally had a mishap while delivering tonight. It was dark and the walkway to the house was fully boxed in with neatly manicured waist-high shrubs. All of the exterior lights were turned off. I was carrying a large box with a red 'heavy' label and didn't have a clear view of the full walkway. I carry a good flashlight and I did sweep it across the path before picking up the package (which required both hands). About half way to the porch I encountered a large step in the shadows that I'd failed to see and immediately fell. The package slammed to the pavement, my right hand did a sort of open-palm punch into the concrete and I aggravated an old knee injury. Luckily that's it, no broken bones, nothing too serious.

The incident got me thinking about who is responsible for more serious on-the-job injuries. I don't have personal health insurance because I can't afford it. I'm not an Amazon employee so no coverage from them. As a home owner, if my neighbor gets hurt on my property then it would be covered by my home owners policy. However I don't believe that covers professionals who are working at, or delivering to, my house.

If home owners policies do cover this type of event, how would Amazon feel about me making a claim against one of their customers. What if the property has a serious safety issue like rotted stairs or other unexpected hazards? I've delivered to some pretty sketchy houses where I felt the porch was going to give out underneath me. What about injuries from pets like a dog bite? I've never given this any thought before now. What do you guys think?


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## nighthawk398 (Jul 21, 2015)

My understanding is you can use the homeowner but have to prove negligence they then turn that over to the insurance company

Anyway hope you have medical on your car insurance at least. Just in case of car accident


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## Side Hustle (Mar 2, 2017)

nighthawk398 said:


> My understanding is you can use the homeowner but have to prove negligence they then turn that over to the insurance company
> 
> Anyway hope you have medical on your car insurance at least. Just in case of car accident


Night hawk is correct regarding potential insurance company liability. On big cases, attorneys do just that, jointly plead both the ins co and homeowner . However you can sue the homeowner directly in small claims court for a lesser injury if you prefer, usually limited to small claim court jurisdiction @ about$5000 max in injury amount, without inter pleading the insurance company. Your claim is that homeowner maintained an unsafe condition that a reasonable person could foresee leading to an injury. The homeowner will counter with contributory negligence on your part should reduce or prevent entirely any monetary recovery.


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## Poolepit (May 17, 2016)

You are a grown adult and fell and hurt yourself working due to no one else’s fault but your own? Why should anyone else be responsible but yourself? I would be pissed if a random delivery driver fell on my steps and tried to sue me.


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## Side Hustle (Mar 2, 2017)

Well folks the law works like this: if an owner of property allows access or knows others are accessing the property, even if trespassing on that property, and the property has a condition that the homeowner knew or reasonablely should have known could presented a hazard to someone accessing the property, and someone injured themselves on the property due in part to the hazardous condition of the property, then the property owner can be found negligent and potentially liable for the injured’s injuries. The property owner can try to reduce or evade liability by arguing the injured contributed to his injuries by his own lack of due care. This will all be considered a question of fact for the jury. But as to the “slip and fall” aspect of the law, the law is the law, and this is black letter law in almost every state. It is what it is.


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## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

It was your fault for falling down. Stop being a money chaser and deal with it.


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## Side Hustle (Mar 2, 2017)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> It was your fault for falling down. Stop being a money chaser and deal with it.


Some folks simply cannot be educated.


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## ScubaMark (Oct 5, 2017)

Side Hustle said:


> It is what it is.


He tripped on a STEP not an unsafe condition of the property.


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## Side Hustle (Mar 2, 2017)

ScubaMark said:


> He tripped on a STEP not an unsafe condition of the property.


There was a time in my life that I believed anyone could be a lawyer. I was obviously wrong.


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## Poolepit (May 17, 2016)

Side Hustle said:


> There was a time in my life that I believed anyone could be a lawyer. I was obviously wrong.


Please don't encourage people to be bigger pieces of shit than the average person already is in these situations.


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## Side Hustle (Mar 2, 2017)

Poolepit said:


> Please don't encourage people to be bigger pieces of shit than the average person already is in these situations.


Right you are, sir. What I should have said was: There was a time in my life that I believed anyone could understand basic legal concepts. I was obviously wrong.


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## DeathByFlex (Nov 29, 2017)

Poolepit said:


> Please don't encourage people to be bigger pieces of shit than the average person already is in these situations.


I don't normally engage in bickering with opposing views but seriously, STFU... You're not contributing anything of value to the conversation. I didn't file a claim or advocate for baseless lawsuits. I made the delivery, bandaged my hand and finished my route (because I'm at least a responsible piece of sh!t).

As a homeowner myself, I have some limited awareness of this matter and it occurred to me that there is an interesting intersection of laws in this case. If we were employees of Amazon then there would be some basic automatic protections such as L&I or a mandatory insurance policy at the employer level (health coverage specifically for on-the-job injuries). However Amazon says I'm not an employee, but rather I'm an 'independent contractor'; which means I'm a separate business. But in my state, one must register to be a business by filing an MBA; 1099 income alone doesn't automatically make me self-employed and certainly doesn't make me eligible for L&I coverage.

When I order something from Amazon, until recently, there was a reasonable expectation that a bonded and insured company would perform last-mile delivery service, not some private citizen in their private car, wearing street clothes, with little training entering my property. In my view, that makes them a trespasser. This distinction is important because there are different levels of culpability regarding injuries on private property. If I invite you over then the law holds me to a higher standard to check for obvious defects and dangers. If you are a trespasser (or uninvited in the case of Flex) then the standard is lower. The legal standard is higher when the injured party is a child because it's unreasonable to expect them to understand any of this.

So Flex drivers are not licensed/bonded, not a formal private company, and not invited by the homeowner. They are not employees of Amazon but are being sent to private properties at Amazon's request. Based on a quick skim of my actual homeowner's policy, the answer remains unclear at best.

Also, I should have been more descriptive about where the step was located and the specific conditions. This was in the middle of a long walkway. Like ten feet, then a single tall step, followed by another ten feet. On one side was a wall, on the other was a waist-high trimmed hedge that was a consistent height. The step was not visible from the driveway even with my high power flashlight. The flatness of the landscape, the consistent height of the hedge, and the length of the walkway gave no indication there was a step, and was in fact misleading. It was dark enough that I couldn't see my feet or where I was stepping and I was using both hands to carry a larger, heavier package. This was a very nice house and had any of the *many* exterior lights been on, this wouldn't have happened.

The customer heard me fall, quickly turned on the lights and met me on the porch. As I was telling her what happened and asking her to check the package for damage she told me, "*it happens all the time.*" Really? That's somewhat of an admission that the owners are aware of a blind tripping hazard. If I had more serious injuries then I may have a strong claim, it's the circumstances mentioned above that cast some doubt.


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## Side Hustle (Mar 2, 2017)

Side Hustle said:


> Right you are, sir. What I should have said was: There was a time in my life that I believed anyone could understand basic legal concepts. I was obviously wrong.


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## Placebo17 (Jan 20, 2017)

People with no morals always trying to get something for nothing when "they" are the one at fault. Tsk, tsk, tsk...


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## Poolepit (May 17, 2016)

DeathByFlex said:


> I don't normally engage in bickering with opposing views but seriously, STFU... You're not contributing anything of value to the conversation. I didn't file a claim or advocate for baseless lawsuits. I made the delivery, bandaged my hand and finished my route (because I'm at least a responsible piece of sh!t).
> 
> As a homeowner myself, I have some limited awareness of this matter and it occurred to me that there is an interesting intersection of laws in this case. If we were employees of Amazon then there would be some basic automatic protections such as L&I or a mandatory insurance policy at the employer level (health coverage specifically for on-the-job injuries). However Amazon says I'm not an employee, but rather I'm an 'independent contractor'; which means I'm a separate business. But in my state, one must register to be a business by filing an MBA; 1099 income alone doesn't automatically make me self-employed and certainly doesn't make me eligible for L&I coverage.
> 
> ...


If you have no morals and don't care about going through life trying to scum people then by all means sue away. It's America and to be expected. That said you and Side Hustle sound like two of the same and your way of thinking certainly are a big part of what's wrong with people in the country. Unbelievable to bust your ass on a step and want to sue because you don't have health insurance. "But it was dark and I didn't see the step. Any way he's at fault for me falling down working and it not my own."

What I find even more laughable is you own a home and don't have health insurance. You not have home insurance either? Seems you have your priorities in order for sure.

Also fwiw I didn't call you a piece of shit. You are yet to go through with suing the homeowner for no reason. I just asked the other guy not to encourage people to be. Meaning you or anyone for that matter. Really sad and pathetic you would even consider doing this but can't say I'm surprised in this day and age. Nor do I care enough to engage anymore. Good luck in whatever you do but hopefully you can take responsibility for your own actions eventually.


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## ScubaMark (Oct 5, 2017)

Poolepit said:


> If you have no morals and don't care about going through life trying to scum people then by all means sue away. It's America and to be expected.


Well said!


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