# Lyft fights to avoid Americans with Disabilities Act in federal court



## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

https://www.politico.com/states/new...ith-disabilities-act-in-federal-court-1002249

*Lyft fights to avoid Americans with Disabilities Act in federal court*

By SAMANTHA MALDONADO

05/02/2019 06:16 PM EDT

Lyft argues it should not be subject to the Americans with Disabilities Act and is fighting a federal class action lawsuit filed in Westchester County on the grounds that "it is not in the transportation business."

It's an argument long employed by app-based companies like Lyft and Uber, and it's one that experts in the field continue to scoff at.

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"According to their public filings their mission is to improve people's lives with the world's best transportation," said former New York City Taxi Commissioner Meera Joshi. "Or maybe it should be improving some people's lives because throughout the country most passengers that use a wheelchair still can't get a Lyft."

Lyft continues to bill itself as a better-behaved version of arch-rival Uber, but this is only its latest effort to avoid government regulations designed to make transportation more accessible to people with disabilities. It's facing another class-action lawsuit, that one in the Bay Area, claiming the company discriminates against people with disabilities.

In its filings with the SEC in March, ahead of its public offering, Lyft acknowledged its ongoing legal battles against having to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act, but said it disputes "allegations of wrongdoing and intend to continue to defend ourselves vigorously in these matters."

"For a company that says they want to do the right thing - they should do the right thing," said attorney Jeremiah Lee Frei-Pearson, who is representing the plaintiffs in the New York class action lawsuit. "Not serving people with disabilities is very inconsistent with the public message that Lyft wants to send as being an inclusive and progressive company."

Campbell Matthews, a spokesperson for Lyft, declined to comment on the Westchester litigation, but in an emailed statement suggested the company's notion of "accessibility" is more all-embracing than the one put forth by advocates for the disabled.

"We think about accessibility broadly and know that many who were previously underserved by transit and taxis are now able to rely on Lyft for convenient and affordable rides," she said.

That argument doesn't satisfy Harriet Lowell of White Plains who, with Westchester Disabled on the Move, filed a class action lawsuit in August 2017 against Lyft for the company's failure to equitably serve disabled people in all areas of the country.

Lowell, who uses a motorized scooter, has been unable to use Lyft because of the paucity of wheelchair accessible for-hire vehicles where she lives. But she has a husband willing to drive her around.

"Not everybody has that: people who live alone who are disabled and have less resources than I do," she said.

Lyft moved to dismiss Lowell's suit on the grounds that Lyft users agree to solve disputes in arbitration and waive their rights to sue in a class action lawsuit as part of the company's terms of service. A federal judge dismissed that request.

Now, according to Lowell's lawyers, Lyft is resisting the judge's efforts to get the parties to mediate, which the lawyers interpret as an unwillingness to solve the problem.

Without mediation, a protracted legal battle is expected, with Lyft continuing to dispute its obligations under the ADA. That's more time that Lowell and others with disabilities will not be able to access the company's cars.

"We just want Lyft to comply with the law and treat people with disabilities equally," said Frei-Pearson. "There are many different ways Lyft could do this and it's not for us to dictate which one they use."

Uber does not provide ADA service in Westchester, either. Frei-Pearson said he and his colleagues have been reluctant to also sue Uber, because there's already national litigation against the company and it appears to be taking more steps toward accessibility.

Last June, New York City settled a suit with Lyft, Uber and Via over requirements that the companies provide more service to people in wheelchairs. Under the settlement, app-based ridesharing companies in New York City must service at least 80 percent of requests for wheelchair-accessible vehicles in under 10 minutes and 90 percent in under 15 minutes by mid-2021.

While many see that settlement as progress, advocates say the federal class action suit is a way to make the companies accountable on a national scale.

"What I want is for Lyft to make themselves accessible throughout America," Lowell said. "It's definitely not about money for me. I'm not in need of money. I'm really in need of a ride."


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

Nobody in their right mind would use their $100,000 accessible personal van to do uber at current rates. You cant charge more as that is discrimination. It will be interesting to see how the companies actually respond to this.


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## Roadmasta (Aug 4, 2017)

NotanEmployee said:


> Nobody in their right mind would use their $100,000 accessible personal van to do uber at current rates. You cant charge more as that is discrimination. It will be interesting to see how the companies actually respond to this.


The problem is that in big cities like NYC, yellow medallion taxi's have to provide one for so many cars on the road. These app companies should be held to the same laws. They should pay for it, no driver could make a living at it. App companies have skirted so many laws by bribes or so say political contributions. They always make sure the driver takes a service animal though. No cost to app companies.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

No Prisoners said:


> laugh historically
> 
> in public.
> 
> ...


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

They're not a transportation company... It's just their mission to be one someday, and be the *best* at it too!


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## Roadmasta (Aug 4, 2017)

RDWRER said:


> They're not a transportation company... It's just their mission to be one someday, and be the *best* at it too!


Technology company, hahahaha.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Roadmasta said:


> The problem is that in big cities like NYC, yellow medallion taxi's have to provide one for so many cars on the road. These app companies should be held to the same laws. They should pay for it, no driver could make a living at it. App companies have skirted so many laws by bribes or so say political contributions. They always make sure the driver takes a service animal though. No cost to app companies.


In orlandoish...

The cab companies must have a % of their vehicles be wheelchair vans.

Then on top of that...

The cab company can't charge more money to rent the wheelchair van to us drivers in spite of it being more expensive to buy and operate,

On top of that they can't charge more per ride.

On top of that, they have higher gas costs...

On top of that, the vehicle loses passenger capacity and can only take parties of UP TO 4!

Mears taxi has to charge LESS to the drivers who use the wheelchair taxis to get drivers to take them out (to make up for higher gas costs vs a hybrid sedan, and they have to "feed them" good fares to make up for the inevitable $5.00 wheelchair fare that takes 30 minutes to drive to, load, drive, and unload.

The final result is the cab companies are subsidizing their drivers in ways most of us aren't even seeing to get these more expensive vehicles on the road.

Uber and lyft face a monumental task of ever getting ADA compliant. Their only method of getting compliant is to partner with taxi companies who are compliant and either subsidizing the rides in ADA taxis or just charging taxi rates... FOR EVERYTHING.

(it is however notable that the wait time for ADA wheelchair taxis around town is notably longer, but that isn't as big of a deal compared to price and having it actually exist)


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

No Prisoners said:


> Lyft moved to dismiss Lowell's suit on the grounds that Lyft users agree to solve disputes in arbitration and waive their rights to sue in a class action lawsuit as part of the company's terms of service. A federal judge dismissed that request.


I loved this part


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

What if this turns out Lift and Uber want all ridesharing cars need to be installed hitch mounted wheelchair carrier to agree to this class action lawsuits? 
We should support Lyft and Uber on this issue.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> In orlandoish...
> 
> The cab companies must have a % of their vehicles be wheelchair vans.
> 
> ...


Do you know how this issue is being resolved in NYC?


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Name games aside, Lyft isn't providing transportation, they're facilitating it. We, the drivers, are the transportation companies. They're more a business referral and billing entity. *IF* they ever get past this self driving car charade things will change, but they're covered. (for now) 

Unlike a cab company, Lyft doesn't own the cars. We do. Unlike a cab company they don't provide the transportation. They refer the business to us, and we provide that service as a contractor. 

As much as I'd love to see Lyft faceplant on this one, I have a bad feeling that if this moves forward, the drivers will end up bearing the brunt of this ADA madness.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Fozzie said:


> Name games aside, Lyft isn't providing transportation, they're facilitating it. We, the drivers, are the transportation companies. They're more a business referral and billing entity. *IF* they ever get past this self driving car charade things will change, but they're covered. (for now)
> 
> Unlike a cab company, Lyft doesn't own the cars. We do. Unlike a cab company they don't provide the transportation. They refer the business to us, and we provide that service as a contractor.
> 
> As much as I'd love to see Lyft faceplant on this one, I have a bad feeling that if this moves forward, the drivers will end up bearing the brunt of this ADA madness.


How to pay for it? There's no more $ to squeeze out of the drivers.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

goneubering said:


> How to pay for it? There's no more $ to squeeze out of the drivers.


How long have we been saying that, yet these companies continue to cut rates and new ants continue to sign up by the thousands. It's not fair, but it will continue, and probably accelerate, until people wake up and see these companies for what they really are.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

goneubering said:


> Do you know how this issue is being resolved in NYC?


Yes, by partnering with taxi companies, the hilarious thing is that in Orlandoish taxi dispatch is dominated in the suburbs by..

*Just one company...*

Uber and lyft knocked the other *ONE* out of business in the northern/eastern suburbs, and the other cab companies that are around only service the airport and the actual city limits plus the tourist district. (then there's two that service the southern suburbs kinda OKish)

Expecting the other 3 companies to be anywhere but the tourist district or the airport is a hilarious expectation, and depending on them to be anywhere else is a joke.

Lyft is _*inevitably dead*_ when that deal is forced through, because Uber already has a deal with that one single cab company.

And if Mears realizes that uber and lyfts only option is to partner with them?

They might just tell both of them to GTFO of town.

It's not like there's multiple cab companies that will actually come when you call around town.

And yes, just one cab company holds all the keys to the "_Magic Kingdom_" in regards to taxis. If i pulled out my phone and called the second biggest cab company in town they wouldn't give me an estimate as to how long it would take, and I live in the city limits at the moment. While with the biggest cab company... I'm looking at a solid 30 minutes to an hour...

God i love living in zone 92 (or maybe 93)

Good thing I have multiple vehicles that work.

IF the cab companies knew they could knock uber/lyft out of the market by all colluding to do so, you can guarantee that they are going to have a backroom meeting and collude uber/lyft out of orlando.

If lyfts solution is to partner only with a company that only services the tourist district to pretend that they have wheelchair service in Orlando?

Yeah that's not going to last long...

If uber locks up a deal with the only company that CAN cover the orlando area... They STILL might find that deal falling apart when they realize how much they can ruin uber in the process.

Heck they already have trouble covering all their current wheelchair fares half the time. It's not hard to justifiably say they can't help Uber do their job.


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

No Prisoners said:


> If this is not hilarious I don't know what is. Wait..... Uber calling drivers "Partners" wins the ? crown. Sorry.
> Lyft's defense " "it is not in the transportation business."
> Remember not polite to laugh historically in public.
> 
> ...


Have to love how the Lyft spokesperson has stated the company defines accessibililty differently than the disabled do and the laws that protect the disabled. They along with our current chief liar and cronies know they are above the law and will ignore them if it is inconvenient or will cost them money. There is no moral or ethical compass in Lyft or Uber. I taught a couple of university courses on ethics in my years and it was really surprising what a lost cause it was at the time and now I see the lack of any ethical compass in government, business, and leadership in the US and understand that my assumptions at the time were proven correct. Ethics are no longer a virtue in this country.



goneubering said:


> Do you know how this issue is being resolved in NYC?


Maybe the soon to be investors know....lmao



Fozzie said:


> How long have we been saying that, yet these companies continue to cut rates and new ants continue to sign up by the thousands. It's not fair, but it will continue, and probably accelerate, until people wake up and see these companies for what they really are.


It will be really telling on Wednesday as we all watch the app to see what is going on. Then again the app is not a vision of reality. Everytime I consider driving during a "busy time" I look at the app and nothing is there. I can then picture right under that facade is a bright red screen. People didn't just stop needing rides at peak times nor are there so many drivers to take care of them. Instead Uber wants you to think that meanwhile the surge is still going and people end up picking people up for an extra dollar.....a DOLLAR during peak times. What sort of American is enticed to use their own car, own gas, their own maintenance, to own time to go pick up a hood rat for a DOLLAR extra during peak times? People without a full deck.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Uber, do you charge fares to customers for transportation rides ?

Then, yes, you are a transportation company.

That's like asking a food company if they're in the food business.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Uber, do you charge fares to customers for transportation rides ?
> 
> Then, yes, you are a transportation company.
> 
> That's like asking a food company if they're in the food business.


They're not charging the riders and providing the service, we are. We are the transportation "companies."

They refer business to us and handle our billing. That's why they have to provide us with the driver received, Uber received, rider paid information.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Fozzie said:


> They're not charging the riders and providing the service, we are. We are the transportation "companies."
> 
> They refer business to us and handle our billing. That's why they have to provide us with the driver received, Uber received, rider paid information.


stop drinking the Uber kool-aid


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Fozzie said:


> Name games aside, Lyft isn't providing transportation, they're facilitating it. We, the drivers, are the transportation companies. They're more a business referral and billing entity. *IF* they ever get past this self driving car charade things will change, but they're covered. (for now)
> 
> Unlike a cab company, Lyft doesn't own the cars. We do. Unlike a cab company they don't provide the transportation. They refer the business to us, and we provide that service as a contractor.
> 
> As much as I'd love to see Lyft faceplant on this one, I have a bad feeling that if this moves forward, the drivers will end up bearing the brunt of this ADA madness.


Totally agree


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> stop drinking the Uber kool-aid


No Kool Aid, just an understanding of business.

Are you a business? (i.e. not an employee) 
Who accepts ride requests? 
Who provides the transportation? 
Who pays for the vehicles?

It seems we do all of the above.

Do Uber employees accept ride requests?
Does Uber transport any passengers?

How does the system work?

1. Passenger requests a ride through the Uber app;
2. *Uber refers the trip to their contractors* (us) for fulfillment;
3. If we accept the ride request, *we pickup and transport the passengers* to their destination;
4. Upon completion, Uber bills the customer, and informs us of the amount received, expenses/withholdings, and our net profits;

Sounds to me like we're the ones that are the transportation company. Am I wrong? How do you think it works? Why?


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## Uber1111uber (Oct 21, 2017)

Not a transportation company? Wtf? Then y when they come to a city the taxi transportation companies get less work? If I sold ice cream next to a hardware store would the hardware store get less business? Whatever ur competition is is what ur company is

Just google "taxi near me" the 1st thing that comes up is an uber ad... not a taxi company eh? ?


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

Fozzie said:


> No Kool Aid, just an understanding of business.
> 
> Are you a business? (i.e. not an employee)
> Who accepts ride requests?
> ...


This doesn't bode well for drivers!


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Fozzie said:


> No Kool Aid, just an understanding of business.
> 
> 1.Are you a business? (i.e. not an employee)
> 2.Who accepts ride requests?
> ...


1. No, but Uber is.
2. It's irrelevant as to the question of "is Uber a transportation company?"
3. It's irrelevant as to the question of "is Uber a transportation company?"
4. It's irrelevant as to the question of "is Uber a transportation company?"

5. It's irrelevant as to the question of "is Uber a transportation company?"
6. It's irrelevant as to the question of "is Uber a transportation company?"

The only question you need to ask yourself is "is Uber in the transportation business, making it a transportation company?"?

The answer is yes since the only revenue it receives from customers is for transporting said customers.

Case closed. Thanks for playing and have a nice day.

ps. When Uber actually makes the majority of its revenue(or any money at all for that matter) from actually selling software or technology then you can call it a technology company.

But it is apparent to anyone that Uber is a transportation company.

It seems to me you also want to know if drivers are in the transportation business. The answer to that question is that drivers are also in the transportation business.

Are drivers also a transportation company? It depends on if they have registered as a company. If any driver has registered their business then in addition to them being in the transportation business then they are also a transportation company.

Anything else you need put in layman's terms feel free to let me know


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Uber1111uber said:


> Not a transportation company? Wtf? Then y when they come to a city the taxi transportation companies get less work? If I sold ice cream next to a hardware store would the hardware store get less business? Whatever ur competition is is what ur company is
> 
> Just google "taxi near me" the 1st thing that comes up is an uber ad... not a taxi company eh? ?


How many cars, owned by Uber, are driving around your town? They're all owned by drivers. Uber is a TNC, a Transportation Network Company, and when a person needs a ride, all Uber does is match that person with a driver in their network.

Why are they putting taxis out of business? Babe, taxis put themselves out of business by charging exorbitant rates, providing slow response times and providing horrible customer service. One need not be perfect to beat out taxis, one need only provide access to faster service at lower rates.



uberdriverfornow said:


> 1. No, but Uber is.
> 2. It's irrelevant as to the question of "is Uber a transportation company?"
> 3. It's irrelevant as to the question of "is Uber a transportation company?"
> 4. It's irrelevant as to the question of "is Uber a transportation company?"
> ...


If they're a transportation company, who are they transporting? (Answer: NOBODY)



BigRedDriver said:


> This doesn't bode well for drivers!


No, it doesn't, but truth is truth, regardless of how much people want to deny it.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> 1. No, but Uber is.
> 2. It's irrelevant as to the question of "is Uber a transportation company?"
> 3. It's irrelevant as to the question of "is Uber a transportation company?"
> 4. It's irrelevant as to the question of "is Uber a transportation company?"
> ...


Centrodyne is NOT a transportation company.

Centrodyne gives zero rides to anyone.

Centrodyne has made craploads of money for years by SUPPLYING hardware/software to transportation companies.

Centrodyne is a _*tech*_ a company.










Get your $(*% straight uber, your full of it...


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

Fozzie said:


> No Kool Aid, just an understanding of business.
> 
> Are you a business? (i.e. not an employee)
> Who accepts ride requests?
> ...


You're misrepresenting the facts. We don't accept the ride request, we accept the request to meet a potential rider at a pickup point. We then are disallowed from not accepting the ride request as a "cancellation due to destination discrimination" is grounds for deactivation, although usually multiple of these are required for it to proceed to that stage.

A ride request has two parts, a starting point and an ending point. We only have access to the starting point at the time of the initial request which makes it absent of 1 part that it needs to have to be a ride request. Uber, on the other hand has access to both of these. Uber is not operating as a referral service but rather it is operating as a dispatch, which makes it in the transportation company.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> It seems to me you also want to know if drivers are in the transportation business. The answer to that question is that drivers are also in the transportation business.
> Are drivers also a transportation company? It depends on if they have registered as a company.


For the purpose of compliance with FEDERAL regulations regarding ADA and EEOC rulings, how a company is 'registered' has nothing to do with anything. Compliance liability relies entirely on the federal definition of "business" within each statute.

In general, if you have fewer than 15 employees, the only EEOC regulation you have to follow is making sure your pay employees equal pay for equal work. And you have no requirements under the ADA.

*EEOC regs:*

*If you have 15 to 19 employees:* You are covered by the laws that prohibit discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy, sexual orientation, or gender identity), national origin, disability and genetic information (including family medical history). You are also covered by the law that requires employers to provide equal pay for equal work.​​*If you have 20 or more employees:* You are covered by the laws that prohibit discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability and genetic information (including family medical history). You are also covered by the law that requires employers to provide equal pay for equal work.​​State and/or local employment discrimination laws may also apply to your business. State and local government websites may have information about these laws.​_source: _https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/smallbusiness/requirements.cfm​
*And, the ADA regs:*

[T]he Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) applies to all businesses with *15 or more employees*​_source: _https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/adahandbook.cfm​


Fozzie said:


> ...all Uber does is match that person with a driver in their network.


No, that is not all Uber does.

Uber determines who is qualified to be a driver in their network.
Uber determines what vehicles are permitted to be used for the purpose of transportation in their network.
Uber determines who is qualified to be a rider in their network.
Uber determines how a driver is to be evaluated in their network.
Uber determines who, how and for how much anyone is insured for liability and/or injury in a vehicle in their network.
Uber determines how much a rider will pay for transportation when being transported by a driver in their network.
Uber determines much a driver will be paid for providing transportation to a rider assigned to them in their network.
Uber provides for financial incentives to drivers for completing ride requests from riders in their network.
Uber determines which driver(s) within its network will be offered a ride request made by a rider within their network.
Uber determines when a driver in its network will be provided the destination address of the rider making the ride request within its network.

Uber does a LOT more than just "match that person with a driver in their network".


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

Fozzie said:


> They're not charging the riders and providing the service, we are. We are the transportation "companies."
> 
> They refer business to us and handle our billing. That's why they have to provide us with the driver received, Uber received, rider paid information.


No, we don't charge the rider. We don't have their payment information nor do we charge them. Lyft and Uber ARE transportation companies. They do not provide us information to make an informed decision on whether or not, as a business person, to accept the ride. I don't know the real distance, the real time to pick-up, the real rating of the rider, the address so whether or not I want to risk my life literally, the profit I will make from the ride, the amount the ride is being charged before I accept the ride, how many riders there are including whether there are children without car seats, the form of payment they used to pay Uber (a cc shows some form of financial responsibility/character and indicates the person is 18 or over....using debit cards or gift cards takes away this one means of vetting rides), have the riders caused problems before (I have yet to see any documentation on passengers being deactivated....would love to see some data here as I assume nobody is ever deactivated), they decide on what rides/transport goes to which drivers, they decide on how much money you will make transporting people on behalf of Uber. So your logic is that passengers are OUR customers, not Ubers? That is not the case obviously. I look forward to the courts progressing through this issue and hopefully all Uber investors and Lyft investors being burned in the process.


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Fozzie said:


> Name games aside, Lyft isn't providing transportation, they're facilitating it. We, the drivers, are the transportation companies. They're more a business referral and billing entity. *IF* they ever get past this self driving car charade things will change, but they're covered. (for now)
> 
> Unlike a cab company, Lyft doesn't own the cars. We do. Unlike a cab company they don't provide the transportation. They refer the business to us, and we provide that service as a contractor.
> 
> As much as I'd love to see Lyft faceplant on this one, I have a bad feeling that if this moves forward, the drivers will end up bearing the brunt of this ADA madness.


Your last paragraph; yeah, that part.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

nouberipo said:


> No, we don't charge the rider. We don't have their payment information nor do we charge them. Lyft and Uber ARE transportation companies. They do not provide us information to make an informed decision on whether or not, as a business person, to accept the ride. I don't know the real distance, the real time to pick-up, the real rating of the rider, the address so whether or not I want to risk my life literally, the profit I will make from the ride, the amount the ride is being charged before I accept the ride, how many riders there are including whether there are children without car seats, the form of payment they used to pay Uber (a cc shows some form of financial responsibility/character and indicates the person is 18 or over....using debit cards or gift cards takes away this one means of vetting rides), have the riders caused problems before (I have yet to see any documentation on passengers being deactivated....would love to see some data here as I assume nobody is ever deactivated), they decide on what rides/transport goes to which drivers, they decide on how much money you will make transporting people on behalf of Uber. So your logic is that passengers are OUR customers, not Ubers? That is not the case obviously. I look forward to the courts progressing through this issue and hopefully all Uber investors and Lyft investors being burned in the process.


These are two clauses (among a few others) I'm waiting for some court somewhere to shove down Uber's proverbial throat:
(a clear case of '_gee, if we say it in an agreement drivers have to sign in order to drive, that will make it true and legal_')

*4.1 Fare Calculation and Your Payment. *​You are entitled to charge a fare for each instance of completed Transportation Services provided to a User that are obtained via the Uber Services ("Fare"), where such Fare is calculated based upon a base fare amount plus distance (as determined by Company using location-based services enabled through the Device) and/or time amounts, as detailed at www.uber.com/cities for the applicable Territory ("Fare Calculation"). You acknowledge and agree that the Fare provided under the Fare Calculation is the only payment you will receive in connection with the provision of Transportation Services, and that neither the Fare nor the Fare Calculation includes any gratuity. You are also entitled to charge User for any Tolls, taxes or fees incurred during the provision of Transportation Services, if applicable. You: (i) appoint Company as your limited payment collection agent solely for the purpose of accepting the Fare, applicable Tolls and, depending on the region and/or if requested by you, applicable taxes and fees from the User on your behalf via the payment processing functionality facilitated by the Uber Services; and (ii) agree that *payment made by User to Company (or to an Affiliate of Company acting as an agent of Company) shall be considered the same as payment made directly by User to you*. In addition, the parties acknowledge and agree that *as between you and Company, the Fare is a recommended amount, and the primary purpose of the pre-arranged Fare is to act as the default amount in the event you do not negotiate a different amount*. You shall always have the right to: (i) charge a fare that is less than the pre-arranged Fare; or (ii) negotiate, at your request, a Fare that is lower than the prearranged Fare (each of (i) and (ii) herein, a "Negotiated Fare"). *Company shall consider all such requests from you in good faith*. Company agrees to remit, or cause to be remitted, to you on at least a weekly basis: (a) the Fare less the applicable Service Fee; (b) the Tolls; and (c) depending on the region, certain taxes and ancillary fees. If you have separately agreed that other amounts may be deducted from the Fare prior to remittance to you (e.g., vehicle financing payments, lease payments, mobile device usage charges, etc.), the order of any such deductions from the Fare shall be determined exclusively by Company (as between you and Company).​
This may be the older language from 2015 - but it is not substantially different than the current driver agreement language.

Just found the CURRENT agreement language... it's worth comparing the two:

*4.1 Fares. *​You are entitled to a Fare for each Ride that you provide, where "Fare" is a base fare amount plus actual distance and/or time amounts (or as required by applicable law), provided that distance and/or time amounts may be predetermined in certain situations, such as for flat rate and minimum fare trips, or estimated where GPS information for that trip is unavailable. *Fares vary by region (detailed at partners.uber.com), may vary depending on local supply and demand, and may also be adjusted in our discretion* based on local market factors. We will provide you with notice of any change to any base fare or applicable distance and/or time amounts, as well as flat rate and minimum trip fares, and by continuing to use the Uber Services, you are deemed to accept these changes. The Fare does not include gratuity.​
*Additionally, even though we often separately advertise and market the Uber Services and other products and services* generally (including discounts or promotions to Riders that reduce what they ultimately pay for a Ride), *this does not entitle you to any additional payment.*​
Unless we indicate to you otherwise, for each Ride, the Rider will pay an amount that includes the Fare, applicable Tolls, applicable fees retained by us, and applicable taxes and surcharges, as well as the Service Fee described in Paragraph 4.4 below (collectively, the "Rider Payment"). *You appoint us as your disclosed limited payment collection agent solely to accept the Rider Payment from Riders via the Uber Services' payment processing functionality, and the Rider Payment to us (acting as your agent) is treated the same as if that Rider paid you directly for that Ride.* The Rider Payment is the only payment that will be made to you by a Rider for a particular Ride. *By accepting a Ride, you indicate your agreement to charge the Rider Payment at the amount recommended by us as your agent.* *The Fare portion of the Rider Payment shall operate as a default, but following completion of a Ride you are entitled to request to charge a lower Fare, and we will consider these requests in good faith.* Your Fares and applicable Tolls will be remitted to you on at least a weekly basis. If you have agreed to any other amounts being deducted from your Fares with any party (such as vehicle financing or lease payments, or mobile device charges), those amounts will be deducted before remittance to you, and we may determine the order of these other deductions if allowed by law.​​*If reasonable, we may adjust a particular Rider Payment (including the Fare portion) for reasons such as inefficient routes, failure to properly end a Ride or technical error on our Services*. In more serious situations, such as fraud, charges for Rides that did not take place or Rider complaints, we may cancel or refund a Rider Payment entirely (including the Fare portion). *If a Rider cancels their Ride prior to your arrival at the pick-up location, we may charge that Rider a cancellation fee on your behalf, and in this case the cancellation fee will be treated the same as a Rider Payment for completed Rides.*​​That last one is a whale of a lie: 
The cancellation *IS NOT* treated the same as a Rider Payment for completed Rides, or we would see a 5x multiplier applied when a rider cancels a 5x ride request.
​


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## Somalipirate (Apr 4, 2017)




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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

No Prisoners said:


> https://www.politico.com/states/new...ith-disabilities-act-in-federal-court-1002249
> 
> *Lyft fights to avoid Americans with Disabilities Act in federal court*
> 
> ...


It will be very interesting to see how they manage to navigate the ADA. Both Uber and Lyft work from the premise that laws, regulations, and rules don't apply to them but the ADA does have teeth as any company in the US would attest to who has been charged with violating it. Again, it will be very interesting to see how this progresses and this is one area I really don't think Uber/Lyft will be able to buy themelves a pass from complying with.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Fozzie said:


> How many cars, owned by Uber, are driving around your town? They're all owned by drivers. Uber is a TNC, a Transportation Network Company, and when a person needs a ride, all Uber does is match that person with a driver in their network.
> 
> Why are they putting taxis out of business? Babe, taxis put themselves out of business by charging exorbitant rates, providing slow response times and providing horrible customer service. One need not be perfect to beat out taxis, one need only provide access to faster service at lower rates.
> 
> If they're a transportation company, who are they transporting? (Answer: NOBODY)


They pay drivers to transport their customers that are paying them.

Try harder.


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## The Texan (Mar 1, 2019)

Why can't you put a WC in your vehicle? I can, and have, and will continue.

The end


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Uber does a LOT more than just "match that person with a driver in their network".


Everyone knows this.


Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Centrodyne is NOT a transportation company.
> 
> Centrodyne gives zero rides to anyone.
> 
> ...


I never said the disabilities act only applies to businesses.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> I never said the disabilities act only applies to businesses.


The ADA does ONLY apply to businesses (with 20 or more employees)... 
otherwise, every home in America would be required to have a wheelchair ramp.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> The ADA does ONLY apply to businesses (with 20 or more employees)...
> otherwise, every home in America would be required to have a wheelchair ramp.


the act applies to drivers even though we are technically not a business


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

The Texan said:


> Why can't you put a WC in your vehicle? I can, and have, and will continue.
> 
> The end


Because a.) a lot of people don't have the ability to do so. just because you have a vehicle that will fit it doesn't mean others do (sort of a myopic viewpoint on your part) and b.) the damage caused by putting it in will no longer be covered by Uber/Lyft and C.) if you damage it you are responsible for it and d.) before using WC as an acronym know that in other countries that means a wash closet (otherwise known as a toilet). You are very short-sighted in your viewpoints in every aspect.



BigRedDriver said:


> This doesn't bode well for drivers!


hopefully the courts will decide this and I presume they will. If it turns out that they decide Uber is a transportation company (which they are) and that drivers are employees (which they are according to the law) then the vehicles will need to accomodate persons with disabilities. As many cars cannot then does that mean they would have to get rid of a lot of drivers since they cannot accommodate persons with disabilities? That would put a major crimp in their business model eh. As I have stated before, Uber and Lyft are in existence because they operate under the notion that laws/regulations dont apply to them. Fortunately the ADA has teeth and is an area that I don't think Uber and Lyft want to start a fight in but they will.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

The Texan said:


> Why can't you put a WC in your vehicle? I can, and have, and will continue.
> 
> The end


I assume you mean one of these?

Inexcusable to not take someone with one of these.










Ever take one of these? _without them getting out of the chair?_

No to both?










We are talking about taxis equipped to handle one of these










Also they can handle these as well

(Real product by the way)


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> the act applies to drivers even though we are technically not a business


 the ACT applies to Transportation companies or any type of company with 20 or more employees. The government is talking out of both sides of its mouth: One Department, EEOC, says the drivers are providing a service of transportation by the TNC... while another department of the government, DOL, allows the TNCs to call drivers independent contractors rather than employees.

As yet, no one has gone to court on the key points which would side with the actual regulations, as written, which say that if workers are independent contractors and do not employ 20 or more people then they (the workers) are not liable under the ADA - but the companies (TNCs) are, which is why the TNCs policies can require you as a driver to provide rides to those with a disability. That's not a legal requirement, but rather a company policy - that will get you deactivated if you don't follow it. Exactly the same logic as applied to transporting service animals.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> the ACT applies to Transportation companies or any type of company both sides of its mouth. One Department, EEOC, says the drivers are providing a service of Transportation by the TNC... while another department of the government, DOL, allows the tncs to call drivers independent contractors rather than employees.
> 
> as yet, no one has gone to court on the key points which would side with the actual , as written, which says that if drivers are independent contractors and do not employ 20 or more people then they are not liable under the ADA.


the act applies to everyone, but in different manners


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

Fozzie said:


> Name games aside, Lyft isn't providing transportation, they're facilitating it. We, the drivers, are the transportation companies. They're more a business referral and billing entity. *IF* they ever get past this self driving car charade things will change, but they're covered. (for now)
> 
> Unlike a cab company, Lyft doesn't own the cars. We do. Unlike a cab company they don't provide the transportation. They refer the business to us, and we provide that service as a contractor.
> 
> As much as I'd love to see Lyft faceplant on this one, I have a bad feeling that if this moves forward, the drivers will end up bearing the brunt of this ADA madness.


Until you realize they provide the drivers the route and all...

Uber/Lyft are way more involved with drivers than taxi garages yet they aren't transportation companies?

It's one thing if they left it at just referrals... then drivers should be able to charge what they want... NO.. They control the drivers rates. They control which customers go to who and all of that...

If they're hiring licensed transportation drivers and etc.. like control rates, control routes and handle pay.. they're a transportation company.


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## Alantc (Jun 15, 2018)

The states and the federal government can regulate the trucking business cuz it's transportation, when will the government wake up to ride sharing manipulation of the system.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Brooklyn said:


> Until you realize they provide the drivers the route and all...
> 
> Uber/Lyft are way more involved with drivers than taxi garages yet they aren't transportation companies?
> 
> ...


They're not HIRING you, they're entering into a contract with you to provide services as a member of their network of drivers. They set universal driver rates for your area, but you're not obligated to continue doing business with them if you don't agree to the compensation rates or have problems with the billing system in place. You're free to do whatever you want, but you choose to stay affiliated. They aren't controlling routes. They give you the destination but you're free to get there via any reasonable route that you choose.

If/when they start charging passengers for rides in Uber owned vehicles driven by W2 employees, they will undoubtedly be a transportation company like taxis, but as long as they rely on you and me to do the work via 1099, that definition just doesn't fit.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

W


No Prisoners said:


> https://www.politico.com/states/new...ith-disabilities-act-in-federal-court-1002249
> 
> *Lyft fights to avoid Americans with Disabilities Act in federal court*
> 
> ...


What a HIDEOUS LOW LIFE SLEEZE BALL COMPANY !

DO THE RIGHT THING !


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Fozzie said:


> They're not HIRING you, they're entering into a contract with you to provide services as a member of their network of drivers. They set universal driver rates for your area, but you're not obligated to continue doing business with them if you don't agree to the compensation rates or have problems with the billing system in place. You're free to do whatever you want, but you choose to stay affiliated. They aren't controlling routes. They give you the destination but you're free to get there via any reasonable route that you choose.
> 
> If/when they start charging passengers for rides in Uber owned vehicles driven by W2 employees, they will undoubtedly be a transportation company like taxis, but as long as they rely on you and me to do the work via 1099, that definition just doesn't fit.


lol I like how you try to always answer the question of "is Uber a transportation company" by just talking about the drivers instead

that's basically a concession that Uber is a transportation company in itself


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

Fozzie said:


> No Kool Aid, just an understanding of business.
> 
> Are you a business? (i.e. not an employee)
> Who accepts ride requests?
> ...


This is exactly how it works. Anyone who thinks otherwise is flat out wrong. Legally, Lyft and Uber are not transportation companies - period.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lol I like how you try to always answer the question of "is Uber a transportation company" by just talking about the drivers instead
> 
> that's basically a concession that Uber is a transportation company in itself


My point is that you can't hold one company liable for the conduct of different business entities. (i.e. drivers)

Uber is a company. We are separate companies. Just as we can't be held liable for the conduct of a company like Uber, they shouldn't be held liable for the conduct of drivers.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

Illini said:


> This is exactly how it works. Anyone who thinks otherwise is flat out wrong. Legally, Lyft and Uber are not transportation companies - period.


You're right. Legally they're not. They're also morally bankrupt and if a thorough investigation done correctly, most likely a criminal enterprise under antitrust and rocketeering statutes. 
Sadly last time it was brought up it was handled poorly. 
Let's see what happens when they burn through all capital at their burn rate.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

No Prisoners said:


> You're right. Legally they're not. They're also morally bankrupt and if a thorough investigation done correctly, most likely a criminal enterprise under antitrust and rocketeering statutes.
> Sadly last time it was brought up it was handled poorly.
> Let's see what happens when they burn through all capital at their burn rate.


I don't think anyone here condones the corporate culture or immoral choices. I've just been trying to point out how things work from a factual point of view. I need not agree with their business, but that doesn't change their legal definition.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Fozzie said:


> My point is that you can't hold one company liable for the conduct of different business entities. (i.e. drivers)
> 
> Uber is a company. We are separate companies. Just as we can't be held liable for the conduct of a company like Uber, they shouldn't be held liable for the conduct of drivers.


lol still talking about drivers when you're supposed to be talking about Uber

now you're talking about drivers conduct, which has nothing to do with uber



Illini said:


> This is exactly how it works. Anyone who thinks otherwise is flat out wrong. Legally, Lyft and Uber are not transportation companies - period.


explain how ubers scooter business alone doesnt make them a transportation company

i would just love to hear how the scooters that Uber owns doesnt equate to transportation lol


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

Fozzie said:


> They're not HIRING you, they're entering into a contract with you to provide services as a member of their network of drivers. They set universal driver rates for your area, but you're not obligated to continue doing business with them if you don't agree to the compensation rates or have problems with the billing system in place. You're free to do whatever you want, but you choose to stay affiliated. They aren't controlling routes. They give you the destination but you're free to get there via any reasonable route that you choose.
> 
> If/when they start charging passengers for rides in Uber owned vehicles driven by W2 employees, they will undoubtedly be a transportation company like taxis, but as long as they rely on you and me to do the work via 1099, that definition just doesn't fit.


1. So you mean like taxis where they don't hire you right? Where you still file a 1099 right? They're not considered transportation either then huh? 
2. Yea follow any route you want until Uber hits you with that adjustment.

Still can't believe there's people on here who play this "it's not a transportation company" nonsense. Literally in NYC they have can bases for drivers to register to.


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lol still talking about drivers when you're supposed to be talking about Uber
> 
> now you're talking about drivers conduct, which has nothing to do with uber
> 
> ...


They probably call them a "toy" or something. -o:


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Brooklyn said:


> 1. So you mean like taxis where they don't hire you right? Where you still file a 1099 right? They're not considered transportation either then huh?
> 2. Yea follow any route you want until Uber hits you with that adjustment.
> 
> Still can't believe there's people on here who play this "it's not a transportation company" nonsense. Literally in NYC they have can bases for drivers to register to.


he's just another trying to have fun

he knows Uber is a transportation company



RDWRER said:


> They probably call them a "toy" or something. -o:


more like a figment of our imagination lol


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Aren't the drivers violating the ADA act, not the tech company?


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## BigRedDriver (Nov 28, 2018)

njn said:


> Aren't the drivers violating the ADA act, not the tech company?


Scary thought


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Brooklyn said:


> Until you realize they provide the drivers the route and all...
> 
> Uber/Lyft are way more involved with drivers than taxi garages yet they aren't transportation companies?


Actually...

Uber/lyft have more control than the taxi company i deal with.

Ratings? HA, yeah...

Free to do whatever?
Check to both,

Independent contractor status/1099s check

yelling at us for being jerks to customers- check to both,

Cancel rating (cancels have to be approved by the call center, so the cab company narrowly has higher control)
Acceptance rating- isn't tracked by the cab company

Background checks- about the same

It's pretty much the same exept uber/lyft exert MORE control on a day to day basis, through ratings and statistics.

The biggest difference is who owns the car.

As a taxi driver i'm still paying for the taxi thou, so there's that.


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