# Lyft shares plunge on light guidance, continued driver incentives (5/3/22)



## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

As of this post, Lyft shares are down 27% after hours. Uber shares down 9%. 









Lyft shares plunge on light guidance, continued driver incentives


The company has struggled with driver supply and demand imbalances throughout the pandemic, leading to higher costs or long wait times.




www.cnbc.com


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## Be Right There (9 mo ago)

How incompetent does one have to be by losing nearly $200 million in a single quarter despite consistently gouging riders while simultaneously screwing over drivers, even with those icky driver incentives?

Yes, that was strictly a rhetorical question.


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## test11111 (Jan 7, 2016)

Illini said:


> As of this post, Lyft shares are down 27% after hours. Uber shares down 9%.
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Love how these stocks are all just getting pussywhipped.
Lyft's sweet pink ass is now red.
Yahooooo


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## Yotadriver (May 1, 2020)

Illini said:


> As of this post, Lyft shares are down 27% after hours. Uber shares down 9%.
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> ...


There are so many missed opportunities with these companies. If they had given drivers stock instead of an offering in the beginning and continued with the 25/75 model this would not be happening.They should have put more care into their drivers instead of thinking a driverless car with solve their f*cking problems. How DUMB are these executives?


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

Yotadriver:

Agree with keeping the 25/75 model to keep drivers happier.

Disagree on the idea of handing out stock options or simply stocks of the then-private company to early newcomers. Fascinating idea, but very complex.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

As of now, Lyft is down 34% from yesterday's close. Uber is down 11%.


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## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

Illini said:


> As of this post, Lyft shares are down 27% after hours. Uber shares down 9%.
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> 
> ...


Such a shame they are getting wacked because they said trhey will need to continue giving incentives. Especially when their incentives are generally far less than what Uber gives.

the only way either place will make money is charging passenger ms more and paying drivers more to keep them on then roads

Lyfts executives really are a bunch of clowns. I still remember when they said they wouldn’t make money until there were self driving cars because they wouldn’t to pay drivers and everything would be profit. They seemed to forget about there being expenses to run the cars


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Be Right There said:


> How incompetent does one have to be by losing nearly $200 million in a single quarter despite consistently gouging riders while simultaneously screwing over drivers, even with those icky driver incentives?
> 
> Yes, that was strictly a rhetorical question.


I've been asking that same rhetorical question for years about these gig companies.

My conclusion is they're lying, embezzling, severely squandering money, or a combination of the three.

Remember, zero profit means zero income taxes.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Yotadriver said:


> There are so many missed opportunities with these companies. If they had given drivers stock instead of an offering in the beginning and continued with the 25/75 model this would not be happening.They should have put more care into their drivers instead of thinking a driverless car with solve their f*cking problems. How DUMB are these executives?


Maybe you weren't driving when the 75/25 (the booking fee made it closer to 70/30) split was around but the largest pay cuts took place when drivers were getting 75/25. Why? Because Uber and Lyft slashed the hell out of the fares. Drivers were getting 70% of a shrinking pie.

The big winners were the pax (dirt cheap rides) and the companies (massive increase in company valuation).

The big losers were the DRIVERS.

Drivers need more than just a return to 75/25. They need full transparency trip info as well as a guaranteed minimum of 75% of local taxi rates.


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## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Maybe you weren't driving when the 75/25 (the booking fee made it closer to 70/30) split was around but the largest pay cuts took place when drivers were getting 75/25. Why? Because Uber and Lyft slashed the hell out of the fares. Drivers were getting 70% of a shrinking pie.
> 
> The big winners were the pax (dirt cheap rides) and the companies (massive increase in company valuation).
> 
> ...


What % of taxi rates do the charge the passenger where you are as a base? In Chicago it’s 40%. They have a lot of room to increase. Of course if both companies did it simultaneously it would probably be viewed as collusion


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## Yotadriver (May 1, 2020)

Illini said:


> As of now, Lyft is down 34% from yesterday's close. Uber is down 11%.


That’s because most drivers stopped giving a f*ck. I only drive when in surge or bonus, they can try to make others work for nothing though the rest of the day.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

New guy65 said:


> What % of taxi rates do the charge the passenger where you are as a base? In Chicago it’s 40%. They have a lot of room to increase. Of course if both companies did it simultaneously it would probably be viewed as collusion


I don’t know about him but the last few days I worked for the cab company I was at about 55% profit on everything I made (mathmagically) a $10 ride with a $2.00 tip is the same as an $8.00 ride with a $4.00 tip)

So 54% when I’m not using my own car taking into account astronomical gas prices.


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## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I don’t know about him but the last few days I worked for the cab company I was at about 55% profit on everything I made (mathmagically) a $10 ride with a $2.00 tip is the same as an $8.00 ride with a $4.00 tip)
> 
> So 54% when I’m not using my own car taking into account astronomical gas prices.


Not asking what the driver makes. Asking what rates Uber/Lyft chargers base vs what a taxi charges for the same trip. In Chicago regular rates including booking fees on rideshare are about 40% of taxis. For trips of less than a mile passengers are generally better of in a taxi though as the taxi initial fee is still cheaper than the Uber booking fees


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

New guy65 said:


> Not asking what the driver makes. Asking what rates Uber/Lyft chargers base vs what a taxi charges for the same trip. In Chicago regular rates including booking fees on rideshare are about 40% of taxis. For trips of less than a mile passengers are generally better of in a taxi though as the taxi initial fee is still cheaper than the Uber booking fees


On non surges the customer gets charged about half of taxi rates here, on surge rides it can be 4-5 times more.

Which is funny because when it surges customers wise up and jump in a taxi. Because it's not like the taxi drivers don't know what time Magic Kingdom closes..


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## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> On non surges the customer gets charged about half of taxi rates here, on surge rides it can be 4-5 times more.
> 
> Which is funny because when it surges customers wise up and jump in a taxi. Because it's not like the taxi drivers don't know what time Magic Kingdom closes..


We have an app called curb which you can use to order taxis. If they can find a taxi it’s just like Uber in that you see hr car on the app it bills it to your credit card and sends you an email with the receipt. I’ve used it when Uber wanted $40+ to go less than 2 miles and the trip with a 20% tip was around $13. I recommend it to any rider who complains about how much their ride was, most never heard of it but they stop *****ing when I tell them there might be a cheaper option at times


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

New guy65 said:


> What % of taxi rates do the charge the passenger where you are as a base? In Chicago it’s 40%. They have a lot of room to increase. Of course if both companies did it simultaneously it would probably be viewed as collusion


In my market, which is Metro DC, Uber pay rates are approximately 30% of taxi rates

In most markets Uber and Lyft pay rates are approx 30% of taxi rates. In many of Uber's worst paying markets like Orlando it's only around 20% of taxi rates.

Drivers need BOTH a 75/25 split of ALL revenue (including booking fees) as well as a minimum 75% of taxi rates

The reason the 75/25 split of ALL revenue (including booking fees) is needed is to prevent Uber from grabbing outrageous cuts of the revenue.

The reason 75% of taxi rates are needed is to protect drivers' earnings from any price-cutting or predatory pricing schemes Uber may try to employ. Uber's fare-cutting from 2014-2016 devastated driver earnings.

Setting pay rates at 75 or 80% of taxi rates gives Uber enough of a margin to be competitive with taxis.


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## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> In my market, which is Metro DC, Uber pay rates are approximately 30% of taxi rates
> 
> In most markets Uber and Lyft pay rates are approx 30% of taxi rates. In many of Uber's worst paying markets like Orlando it's only around 20% of taxi rates.
> 
> ...


It’s extremely possible that 75-80% of taxi rates would flood the streets with drivers and people could make less overall. The streets around here have a lot more cars even during decent ctbs. There is probably equilibrium somewhere between current base rates and taxi rates.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

New guy65 said:


> It’s extremely possible that 75-80% of taxi rates would flood the streets with drivers and people could make less overall. The streets around here have a lot more cars even during decent ctbs. There is probably equilibrium somewhere between current base rates and taxi rates.


There'd certainly be an uptick of new drivers attracted by the much higher pay rates. Some would quit very quickly due to that fact that driving strangers in your own car isn't for everyone. Some would quit if business becomes slow. Eventually the market would find its equilibrium. The more resourceful drivers would earn more but the key factor is that unlike now, the vast majority of rides would be PROFITABLE at those rates.

I'll take my chances at dealing with a saturated market where I know that every ride I accept will be profitable, especially when I'm armed with full trip info.

History has clearly shown that pax would be more than willing to use rideshare at 75 or 80% of taxi rates. There's no question about that.


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## New guy65 (Oct 25, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> There'd certainly be an uptick of new drivers attracted by the much higher pay rates. Some would quit very quickly due to that fact that driving strangers in your own car isn't for everyone. Some would quit if business becomes slow. Eventually the market would find its equilibrium. The more resourceful drivers would earn more but the key factor is that unlike now, the vast majority of rides would be PROFITABLE at those rates.
> 
> I'll take my chances at dealing with a saturated market where I know that every ride I accept will be profitable, especially when I'm armed with full trip info.
> 
> History has clearly shown that pax would be more than willing to use rideshare at 75 or 80% of taxi rates. There's no question about that.


Some have said they would pay taxi rates or a bit higher due to the convenience of hitting a button, a car shows up and it’s charged to the credit card and they have an email receipt. 
Rideshare companies did themselves and drivers a disservice by commoditizing themselves as opposed to pushed the value added side from the technology


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

This is the scene at Lyft HQ


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

They could have made $2.50 a ride being a booking agent with zero liability instead they decided to do the whole rideshare BS and it looks like they are running on fumes.

They've grown as big as they can get and that's all there is to it.


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## tucsongoober69 (May 29, 2021)

stocks prices have been trending down for a while now, if this continues it might mean goobers like me will end up with no jobs when the riders are out of job and money to go out for food or fun. you dun wanna be sleeping on the streeets during an economy downturn, do you?


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Call me crazy, but the new series about Uber on Showtime is nightmare p.r. For both companies. 

I think many people believed there was magic happening at the HQ’s when it was really a bunch of ……never mind. Watch the show and let us know if you feel the same way.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

tucsongoober69 said:


> stocks prices have been trending down for a while now, if this continues it might mean goobers like me will end up with no jobs when the riders are out of job and money to go out for food or fun. you dun wanna be sleeping on the streeets during an economy downturn, do you?


not really, just because a stock is worth very little doesn't mean that it isn't running net positive. It just means that no one wants to buy stocks in it. 

And just like uber's stocks being positive it doesn/t mean that they can actually make money.


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## Sam D (May 15, 2017)

Illini said:


> As of this post, Lyft shares are down 27% after hours. Uber shares down 9%.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lyft is an awful company and treats drivers like crap - Yes I have ocassional done well driving for them but overall they have treated my like crap so I dont turn on that app any more Uber is better but not by much - I can usually get someone with a brain to hear me out on the other hand Lyft has no employees with brains - it must be a job requirment for them


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

Next guidance will be worse: we have lost all of our drivers and passengers because we took away all of the incentives. missed earnings. missed revenue. missed ridership. missed new passengers.


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