# Uber | Insurance Aligned



## chi1cabby

*INSURANCE ALIGNED*
*http://blog.uber.com/insurancealigned*
*"*An insurance mandate of *primary insurance coverage during Period 1 (logged in and available)* with minimum liability limits of $50/$100/$25K plus any other state compulsory coverage. Coverage is to be maintained by the TNC, TNC Driver, or a combination of the two."


----------



## chi1cabby

Now the question is if Uber will support the few State Bills that require TNCs to provide Primary Gap Insurance coverage?
And more importantly, will Uber ask that the umpteen States Bills, that Don't require Primary Gap Insurance, be amended to require Primary coverage?


----------



## Goober

Yes-sir-ee-bob!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

chi1cabby said:


> *INSURANCE ALIGNED*
> *http://blog.uber.com/insurancealigned*


POST # 1 /@chi1cabby : More hot-off-the
"Press"
News-U-Need from Notable Newsmeister.
Thank you kind sir.

Would it be too early for Drivers to Con-
tact the Mentioned Insurance Co.s for a
Quote? Or is a Likely Response that they
Will Announce Something Sometime be-
yond breathholding advisability?


----------



## Goober

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 1 /@chi1cabby : More hot-off-the
> "Press"
> News-U-Need from Notable Newsmeister.
> Thank you kind sir.
> 
> Would it be too early for Drivers to Con-
> tact the Mentioned Insurance Co.s for a
> Quote? Or is a Likely Response that they
> Will Announce Something Sometime be-
> yond breathholding advisability?


They'll announce something as soon as Minnesota forces Uber to insure us properly and Uber just makes us to purchase 12 months of commercial insurance...lol

On a more serious note, no mention of Medical whatsoever in the blog post!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Goober said:


> They'll announce something as soon as Minnesota forces Uber to insure us properly and Uber just makes us to purchase 12 months of commercial insurance...lol
> 
> On a more serious note, no mention of Medical whatsoever in the blog post!


POST # 5 /@Goober : Who knew that
Travis
Bickle moved to the Twin Cities?
@Goober did. That's who!


----------



## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> Now the question is if Uber will support the few State Bills that require TNCs to provide Primary Gap Insurance coverage?
> And more importantly, will Uber ask that the umpteen States Bills, that Don't require Primary Gap Insurance, be amended to require Primary coverage?


Read the fine print:


Disclosure language from TNCs to TNC drivers.
[Freely translated, this means that drivers will have to be told, in writing, signed by the driver, that their personal auto policies may be voided by doing TNC driving. Or they could actually read their own insurance livery exclusion clause and figure it out.]

Support for insurers to contractually exclude coverage related to TNC activities, if desired.
[Uh, yeah. I think most of us here know NOW that TNC driving voids our personal auto policies]

Support for insurers to create innovative new products for TNC Drivers.
[Uh, yeah, I think most of us know NOW that we need other commercial coverage]

The big game that *Uber will continue to* play is *to take VOIDED PERSONAL AUTO POLICIES as proof of insurance sufficient to drive for TNC's*. *THIS needs to be outlawed by every state.*

You can not take a voided personal auto policy as 'proof of insurance.' It's that simple. But *Uber is only trying to DODGE THIS MISSING BULLETPOINT entirely *with their fancy footwork.


----------



## Showa50

chi1cabby said:


> Now the question is if Uber will support the few State Bills that require TNCs to provide Primary Gap Insurance coverage?
> And more importantly, will Uber ask that the umpteen States Bills, that Don't require Primary Gap Insurance, be amended to require Primary coverage?


June 1st is the big day in California. Uber's insurance becomes primary.


----------



## Luberon

forcing drivers to claim through their personal carrier first is just using drivers as cannon fodder by Uber/Lyft to stick it up to insurance companies that you guys need to provide coverage or else.... At the ed of it all Uber gets insurance products they need, insurers cancel and deny a few personal claims, life moves on. 
Oh who cares about the few drivers who wrecked their cars and essentially became uninsurable in the process? Aye, aye, the Uber IPO is around the corner!!


----------



## Just_in

chi1cabby said:


> Now the question is if Uber will support the few State Bills that require TNCs to provide Primary Gap Insurance coverage?
> And more importantly, will Uber ask that the umpteen States Bills, that Don't require Primary Gap Insurance, be amended to require Primary coverage?


 But with the App On Uber does not want you to drive to the grocery store under their insurance. At least I have heard it stated that way before.


----------



## Luberon

Just_in said:


> But with the App On Uber does not want you to drive to the grocery store under their insurance. At least I have heard it stated that way before.


Uber will not want you to drive anywhere with their coverage. They only care about their SRF.


----------



## chi1cabby

Dude is there a pot of "Uber Insurance" that you brew in the morning and OD on throughout the day?


scrurbscrud said:


> Read the fine print:


Those are Not Fine Print!
Those Are further steps to bolster the Primary Gap Insurance coverage requirements.


An insurance mandate of *primary* insurance coverage during Period 1 (logged in and available) with minimum liability limits of $50/$100/$25K plus any other state compulsory coverage. Coverage is to be maintained by the TNC, TNC Driver, or a combination of the two.


----------



## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> Dude is there a pot of "Uber Insurance" that you brew in the morning and OD on throughout the day?
> 
> Those are Not Fine Print!
> Those Are further steps to bolster the Primary Gap Insurance coverage requirements.
> 
> 
> An insurance mandate of *primary* insurance coverage during Period 1 (logged in and available) with minimum liability limits of $50/$100/$25K plus any other state compulsory coverage. Coverage is to be maintained by the TNC, TNC Driver, or a combination of the two.


And you continue to miss the heart of the issue chicabby.

The majority of TNC drivers are tooling around on voided personal auto policies. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend? TNC companies STILL are seeking to accept voided personal auto policies as proof of insurance.

???


----------



## Luberon

"Coverage is to be maintained by the TNC, *TNC Driver, or a combination of the two."*

What does that mean to drivers?


----------



## scrurbscrud

Luberon said:


> "Coverage is to be maintained by the TNC, *TNC Driver, or a combination of the two."*
> 
> What does that mean to drivers?


It means that Uber is seeking a notification signed by the drivers that their personal auto insurance may be void by doing TNC driving, but they will TAKE their personal auto policies as proof to drive anyway because the driver agreed to check.

It's just more bullshit from the TNC companies.


----------



## Luberon

scrurbscrud said:


> And you continue to miss the heart of the issue chicabby.
> 
> The majority of TNC drivers are tooling around on voided personal auto policies. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend? TNC companies STILL are seeking to accept voided personal auto policies as proof of insurance.
> 
> ???


Those voided policies are leverage to twist insurance companies arms into providing "appropriate" products. TNCs sticking it up to ins companies, after all when the music stops it is drivers ass not TNCs that is on fire.

- Drivers with voided policies --- uber lyft wins; driver and insurance companies lose.
- Drivers with proper insurance-- TNC wins, insurance wins, driver slightly better off.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Luberon said:


> Those voided policies are leverage to twist insurance companies arms into providing "appropriate" products. TNCs sticking it up to ins companies, after all when the music stops it is drivers ass not TNCs that is on fire.
> 
> - Drivers with voided policies --- uber lyft wins driver and insurance companies loss.
> - Drivers with proper insurance-- TNC wins, insurance wins, driver slightly better off.


The last thing Uber or Lyft wants is for drivers to have legit commercial insurance because it will put most part timers out of business. And hybrids are not commonly available yet across their markets.

I expect that the insurance issues will be solved in time, but TNC's accepting drivers with voided personal auto policies IS NOT a solution. *That should be outlawed.*


----------



## zMann

To my knowledge, If you fail to provide to Uber a proof of actual and validate insurance, your account as an uber driver will be deactivated until you update the such proof of a validate insurance policy.
Appreciate any clarification. Thank you


----------



## chi1cabby

Luberon said:


> "Coverage is to be maintained by the TNC, *TNC Driver, or a combination of the two."*
> 
> What does that mean to drivers?


It means that primary coverage will have to be provided by TNCs, at least initially, since the coverage is only available in CA, CO, VA & AZ right now. Then later on, if the coverage becomes available, TNC can require the Drivers to buy it.


----------



## scrurbscrud

zMann said:


> To my knowledge, If you fail to provide to Uber a proof of actual and validate insurance, your account as an uber driver will be deactivated until you update the such proof of a validate insurance policy.
> Appreciate any clarification. Thank you


Both companies will accept a voided personal auto policy, one that is technically voided by the driver doing TNC/livery, as sufficient proof of insurance. It just isn't, that's all. There is no way a voided personal auto policy can be valid insurance. NOTwithstanding the validity of Uber or Lyft's insurance. That really isn't the question.

The question is what situation does TNC driving put the DRIVER in with regards to their own personal auto policy. It puts them in a voided personal auto policy position.

Colorado supposedly had the 'ground breaking' regulations in place for this matter, but Uber is still letting TNC drivers submit voided by TNC driving personal auto policies as sufficient proof of insurance from what we've seen here from drivers in that state.

In other words it's all still double talk.


----------



## chi1cabby

TNCs already provide coverage PRIMARY coverage for Period 2 & Period 3.
The fight between Insurers & TNCs was about coverage for Period 1 (App On, No pax or en route to a pickup).

TNCs maintained that Period 1 was non-commercial personal driving, and Drivers' personal car insurance policies should provide coverage. And that if Drivers' personal car insurance denied claims for Period 1 incidents, they had Secondary insurance to provide coverage.
Insurers maintained that this was non-personal & commercial driving, as Drivers were logged in and available on the platform to accept ride requests.
This conflict led to Drivers' Gap Insurance Catch 22. They had to FIRST file a claim with the insurers, and either lie about their TNC driving, or tell the truth & risk getting their policies cancelled.

Now there will be 'App On' PRIMARY insurance coverage for All 3 periods of TNC driving. Coverage will not be dependent on Drivers' personal car insurance policies.

Problem solved, everyone happy!
(Except perhaps @scrurbscrud )


*Edit: *This is only the agreement language of "TNC Insurance Compromise Model Bill". It remains to be seen how will it be acted on by the TNCs in the umpteen States Legislatures where bills without Primary Gap Insurance requirement are proceeding with TNCs' support.


----------



## duggles

scrurbscrud said:


> Colorado supposedly had the 'ground breaking' regulations in place for this matter, but Uber is still letting TNC drivers submit voided by TNC driving personal auto policies as sufficient proof of insurance from what we've seen here from drivers in that state.


Indeed, Uber emailed about a month or two ago saying that TNC needed to be listed as additional insured on our personal insurance policies. But they do not "require" it on the submitted insurance documents, as no drivers that I know of (myself included) have been deactivated.

And no surprise, Lyft has made no mention of this portion of the law going into effect.

However, Uber also notified that PUC would be doing inspections now. I wonder if they will check that insurance qualification.


----------



## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> *Now there will be 'App On' PRIMARY insurance coverage for All 3 periods of TNC driving*. Coverage will not be dependent on Drivers' personal car insurance policies.
> 
> Problem solved, everyone happy!
> (Except perhaps @scrurbscrud )


*
Which still doesn't have a damn thing to do with a driver voiding their personal auto policy. *

Good grief.

*IF a drivers personal auto policy CLEARS that arrangement, THEN you'll have a point*, but at this point they haven't.


----------



## chi1cabby

scrurbscrud said:


> *IF a drivers personal auto policy CLEARS that arrangement, THEN you'll have a point*, but at this point they haven't.


This will be a long drawn out process, with TNCs equivocation & not acting in good faith throughout. 
But I view this development as a step in the right direction from Drivers' POV.


----------



## scrurbscrud

chi1cabby said:


> This will be a long drawn out process, *with TNCs equivocation & not acting in good faith throughout. *
> But I view this development as a step in the right direction from Drivers' POV.


Not acting in good faith would be a massive understatement.

If state legislators wanted to legitimize these TNC companies they would simply take both Uber and Lyft to court and prosecute them both for *fraudulent business practices,* *i.e. putting drivers into voided personal auto policies and accepting same as valid proof of insurance WHEN IT'S NOT.* Problem solved.

Probably take about a day or two of personal fraud charges to the CEO's of both companies and it would be resolved immediately.

Clowns on every corner. This one step in the right driver direction didn't do a thing in reality. These two companies will continue to take invalid personal auto policies from TNC drivers until the authorities make them STOP it.

Fact is, nobody will give a care about drivers insurance including themselves for the most part until they are all forced to comply.


----------



## arto71

chi1cabby said:


> TNCs already provide coverage PRIMARY coverage for Period 2 & Period 3.
> The fight between Insurers & TNCs was about coverage for Period 1 (App On, No pax or en route to a pickup).
> 
> TNCs maintained that Period 1 was non-commercial personal driving, and Drivers' personal car insurance policies should provide coverage. And that if Drivers' personal car insurance denied claims for Period 1 incidents, they had Secondary insurance to provide coverage.
> Insurers maintained that this was non-personal & commercial driving, as Drivers were logged in and available on the platform to accept ride requests.
> This conflict led to Drivers' Gap Insurance Catch 22. They had to FIRST file a claim with the insurers, and either lie about their TNC driving, or tell the truth & risk getting their policies cancelled.
> 
> Now there will be 'App On' PRIMARY insurance coverage for All 3 periods of TNC driving. Coverage will not be dependent on Drivers' personal car insurance policies.
> 
> Problem solved, everyone happy!
> (Except perhaps @scrurbscrud )
> 
> 
> *Edit: *This is only the agreement language of "TNC Insurance Compromise Model Bill". It remains to be seen how will it be acted on by the TNCs in the umpteen States Legislatures where bills without Primary Gap Insurance requirement are proceeding with TNCs' support.


*Uber, auto insurers push Mass. lawmakers to adopt bill covering drivers*
*http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/n...to-insurers-push-mass-lawmakers-to-adopt.html*


----------



## chi1cabby

arto71 said:


> *Uber, auto insurers push Mass. lawmakers to adopt bill covering drivers*
> *http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/n...to-insurers-push-mass-lawmakers-to-adopt.html*


This is a good sign.
But no Bill has been proposed for Massachusetts yet (AFAIK).


chi1cabby said:


> It remains to be seen how will it be acted on by the TNCs in the umpteen States Legislatures where bills without Primary Gap Insurance requirement are proceeding with TNCs' support.


 But I'm really concerned if Uber is going to now ask the legislature's in at least dozen States where Bills without Primary Gap Insurance coverage requirement are proceeding.
Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, Maryland, New York, Kentucky, Arkansas, Idaho, Hawaii, Iowa, Arizona...these are the one's that come to mind right away.


----------



## Goober

all @scrurbscrud is trying to say is that TNC's are being contradictory hypocrites:

"Make sure to check with your primary coverage, which generally is VOIDED if you use your car as a taxi (unless a commercial policy). Then submit it to us, and we'll approve and allow you to VOID the very insurance we required you to submit. Thank you."


----------



## UberOnSD

scrurbscrud said:


> And you continue to miss the heart of the issue chicabby.
> 
> The majority of TNC drivers are tooling around on voided personal auto policies. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend? TNC companies STILL are seeking to accept voided personal auto policies as proof of insurance.
> 
> ???


"Voided insurance policies?" That is an outright lie. I had to send a copy of my CURRENT insurance card to Uber.

Liar liar pants on fire!


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

UberOnSD said:


> "Voided insurance policies?" That is an outright lie. I had to send a copy of my CURRENT insurance card to Uber.
> 
> Liar liar pants on fire!


you're kind of missing the point


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberOnSD said:


> "Voided insurance policies?" That is an outright lie. I had to send a copy of my CURRENT insurance card to Uber.
> 
> Liar liar pants on fire!


Heh heh. Newbies. All the same. Shock that they have been misled.


----------



## UberOnSD

scrurbscrud said:


> Heh heh. Newbies. All the same. Shock that they have been misled.


Yeah, I'm a real newbie; over 1,300 rides and a rating of 4.8. I can safely dismiss you as a troll.


----------



## UberOnSD

scrurbscrud said:


> And you continue to miss the heart of the issue chicabby.
> 
> The majority of TNC drivers are tooling around on voided personal auto policies. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend? TNC companies STILL are seeking to accept voided personal auto policies as proof of insurance.
> 
> ???


This is a lie of course. In California, you cannot even register your car without proof of insurance. You cannot drive for Uber without current insurance. My policy is certainly not "void." This is typical union-style propaganda. But if you really buy into this, you should not drive for Uber, which would then mean you have no business on this board.


----------



## Actionjax

UberOnSD said:


> This is a lie of course. In California, you cannot even register your car without proof of insurance. You cannot drive for Uber without current insurance. My policy is certainly not "void." This is typical union-style propaganda. But if you really buy into this, you should not drive for Uber, which would then mean you have no business on this board.


Just one question. Do you tell your insurance company you drive doing Uber? When you do let me know how it goes.


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberOnSD said:


> This is a lie of course. In California, you cannot even register your car without proof of insurance. You cannot drive for Uber without current insurance. My policy is certainly not "void." This is typical union-style propaganda. But if you really buy into this, you should not drive for Uber, which would then mean you have no business on this board.


Question A: Do you have commercial auto insurance for livery on your own, not through Uber Lyft?

if NO

Call your personal auto insurance carrier and *ask if they are OK with you driving livery service with your personal auto policy.*

Then come back and let me know what they said. *Otherwise you're just guessing.*


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberOnSD said:


> Yeah, I'm a real newbie; over 1,300 rides and a rating of 4.8. I can safely dismiss you as a troll.


Stick to the facts. We'll both get along better.


----------



## chi1cabby

*Insurers agree on framework for Uber, Lyft coverage*
Carolyn Said 
http://m.sfgate.com/business/article/Insurers-agree-on-framework-for-Uber-Lyft-6159100.php


----------



## getFubered

Uber is going to pawn this off on us. Nothing that has been proposed is about them paying more, its about us, them or both. They want this shit to pass so that governments stop going after them exclusively. 

I can see it now.
"Dear Partner. We have been working rigorously to get insurance up to speed. Effective 12 hours from, you will be required to purchase an insurance policy that covers you during period 1. We have worked hard to get you this. Don't worry though, effective as of last week, we dropped rates another 20%, that's a whopping 91% cheaper than a cab! This means big bucks for you!"

Go **** yourself. They should pay for it all.


----------



## UberOnSD

scrurbscrud said:


> Not acting in good faith would be a massive understatement.
> 
> If state legislators wanted to legitimize these TNC companies they would simply take both Uber and Lyft to court and prosecute them both for *fraudulent business practices,* *i.e. putting drivers into voided personal auto policies and accepting same as valid proof of insurance WHEN IT'S NOT.* Problem solved.
> 
> Probably take about a day or two of personal fraud charges to the CEO's of both companies and it would be resolved immediately.
> 
> Clowns on every corner. This one step in the right driver direction didn't do a thing in reality. These two companies will continue to take invalid personal auto policies from TNC drivers until the authorities make them STOP it.
> 
> Fact is, nobody will give a care about drivers insurance including themselves for the most part until they are all forced to comply.





getFubered said:


> Uber is going to pawn this off on us. Nothing that has been proposed is about them paying more, its about us, them or both. They want this shit to pass so that governments stop going after them exclusively.
> 
> I can see it now.
> "Dear Partner. We have been working rigorously to get insurance up to speed. Effective 12 hours from, you will be required to purchase an insurance policy that covers you during period 1. We have worked hard to get you this. Don't worry though, effective as of last week, we dropped rates another 20%, that's a whopping 91% cheaper than a cab! This means big bucks for you!"
> 
> Go **** yourself. They should pay for it all.


Why should they have to pay for it all? You sound like a union beggar / government sponge type!


----------



## UberOnSD

scrurbscrud said:


> Read the fine print:
> 
> 
> Disclosure language from TNCs to TNC drivers.
> [Freely translated, this means that drivers will have to be told, in writing, signed by the driver, that their personal auto policies may be voided by doing TNC driving. Or they could actually read their own insurance livery exclusion clause and figure it out.]
> 
> Support for insurers to contractually exclude coverage related to TNC activities, if desired.
> [Uh, yeah. I think most of us here know NOW that TNC driving voids our personal auto policies]
> 
> Support for insurers to create innovative new products for TNC Drivers.
> [Uh, yeah, I think most of us know NOW that we need other commercial coverage]
> 
> The big game that *Uber will continue to* play is *to take VOIDED PERSONAL AUTO POLICIES as proof of insurance sufficient to drive for TNC's*. *THIS needs to be outlawed by every state.*
> 
> You can not take a voided personal auto policy as 'proof of insurance.' It's that simple. But *Uber is only trying to DODGE THIS MISSING BULLETPOINT entirely *with their fancy footwork.


Name JUST ONE person driving for Uber who is doing so with a "voided" insurance policy. Are you on crack or what?


----------



## Actionjax

UberOnSD said:


> Name JUST ONE person driving for Uber who is doing so with a "voided" insurance policy. Are you on crack or what?


Mine is completely valid till my insurance company tells me otherwise.


----------



## getFubered

UberOnSD said:


> Why should they have to pay for it all? You sound like a union beggar / government sponge type!


Because they have LIED the entire time about the validity of my our own insurance. This policy would change contract terms that I don't agree to. Besides about 30 other GOOD reasons I could give, I'm being misclassified as an independent contractor. Trust me if you think your just "someone that uses the platform", you're an idiot. The rates in my city do not allow me to profit above minimum wage, and I should pay for it? You can also go **** yourself.

And don't get it confused, I would like to be an independent contractor but fact is I'm not.


----------



## getFubered

UberOnSD said:


> Name JUST ONE person driving for Uber who is doing so with a "voided" insurance policy. Are you on crack or what?


Show me JUST ONE policy document where it says something along the lines of "feel free to drive for hire on the side for extra cash"


----------



## UberOnSD

zMann said:


> To my knowledge, If you fail to provide to Uber a proof of actual and validate insurance, your account as an uber driver will be deactivated until you update the such proof of a validate insurance policy.
> Appreciate any clarification. Thank you


Finally a voice of reason. You are correct.


----------



## UberOnSD

getFubered said:


> Because they have LIED the entire time about the validity of my our own insurance. This policy would change contract terms that I don't agree to. Besides about 30 other GOOD reasons I could give, I'm being misclassified as an independent contractor. Trust me if you think your just "someone that uses the platform", you're an idiot. The rates in my city do not allow me to profit above minimum wage, and I should pay for it? You can also go **** yourself.
> 
> And don't get it confused, I would like to be an independent contractor but fact is I'm not.


well if you're not making a profit, you should just quit then. You would be much happier probably.


----------



## getFubered

UberOnSD said:


> well if you're not making a profit, you should just quit then. You would be much happier probably.


It's like talking to an 8 year old


----------



## UberOnSD

getFubered said:


> It's like talking to an 8 year old


Why? Am I making too much sense? Normal people look for another gig. Crybabies go to lawyers and unions.


----------



## Luberon

UberOnSD said:


> Why? Am I making too much sense? Normal people look for another gig. Crybabies go to lawyers and unions.


Your posts sound very apologetic of Uber. If you are a shill, which is OK, you are doing a good job. If you are not paid by Uber then consider applying for a job as an CSR, you are a good fit.


----------



## UberOnSD

Luberon said:


> Your posts sound very apologetic of Uber. If you are a shill, which is OK, you are doing a good job. If you are not paid by Uber then consider applying for a job as an CSR, you are a good fit.


Sorry, not a shill...just a driver who enjoys the work.


----------



## Luberon

getFubered said:


> Uber is going to pawn this off on us. Nothing that has been proposed is about them paying more, its about us, them or both. They want this shit to pass so that governments stop going after them exclusively.
> 
> I can see it now.
> "Dear Partner. We have been working rigorously to get insurance up to speed. Effective 12 hours from, you will be required to purchase an insurance policy that covers you during period 1. We have worked hard to get you this. Don't worry though, effective as of last week, we dropped rates another 20%, that's a whopping 91% cheaper than a cab! This means big bucks for you!"
> 
> Go **** yourself. They should pay for it all.


I dont mind Uber raising the hated SRF to $1.50 (To be added on top, not subtracted from minimum fare rides).

Charging a little bit extra for a properly insured ride is in drivers interest. Piss low X rates are subject of another rant.


----------



## Luberon

UberOnSD said:


> Finally a voice of reason. You are correct.


Have you bothered checking with your personal policy whether or not you can Uber on with that?


----------



## Luberon

UberOnSD said:


> Why should they have to pay for it all? You sound like a union beggar / government sponge type!


As independent contractors we(most of us) are out to make money after accounting for ALL expenses. Uber is a business too. It is the rider that eventually pays for everything. However, given the power of Uber to unilaterally set rates and policies that earn them more market share at the expense of drivers costs, Uber can churn out and exploit vulnerable drivers with unsustainable costs for a while. Eventually even the dumbest drivers will catch on you cannot run at a loss forever. Rates will rise to a sustainable level or someone else will come and take over the market.

ALL expenses are borne by the rider, that is the way it is and the way it will remain.


----------



## Goober

UberOnSD said:


> Sorry, not a shill...just a driver who enjoys the work.


Dude, your policy is void the minute you breach your contract. Which you did by using your vehicle for commercial purposes.


----------



## UberOnSD

Goober said:


> Dude, your policy is void the minute you breach your contract. Which you did by using your vehicle for commercial purposes.


My insurance is void when the insurance company TELLS me it is void, not a jailhouse lawyer. Besides, how do you know what insurance I have? I could have Metromile or a commercial policy, both of which are underwritten by National General Insurance.

And even if I HAD "voided" it, why would you care? That would be MY problem.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

UberOnSD said:


> My insurance is void when the insurance company TELLS me it is void, not a jailhouse lawyer. Besides, how do you know what insurance I have? I could have Metromile or a commercial policy, both of which are underwritten by National General Insurance.
> 
> And even if I HAD "voided" it, why would you care? That would be MY problem.


Yeah, you were (forever) confusing/misconstruing "voided" with "lapsed or cancelled".
This issue has absolutely nothing to do with providing a current in force personal insurance certificate. Its all about "voiding" the terms of that policy, so that any TNC related claims will be rejected. Sorry, your Ins. Co. wont actually "tell you" your not covered til after your fraudulent claim for your accident while illegally providing TNC livery service has been REJECTED! Then not only will you lose the entire value of your vehichle, you will be uninsureable! This is exactly the same as purchasing life insurance as a non smoker, when you are really SMOKING YOUR ASS OFF! The insurance is "void" cuz you lied on the application, and/or did not comply with the terms required to get the lower rate. Thus your claim is REJECTED and does not pay out! End of story, now your riding the bus, cuz you cant even afford to ride Uber! :-(


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

zMann said:


> To my knowledge, If you fail to provide to Uber a proof of actual and validate insurance, your account as an uber driver will be deactivated until you update the such proof of a validate insurance policy.
> Appreciate any clarification. Thank you


Yeah, you are confusing/misconstruing "voided" with "lapsed or cancelled".
This issue has nothing to do with providing a current in force personal insurance certificate.
Its all about "voiding" the terms of that policy, so that TNC related claims will be rejected.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

UberOnSD said:


> Finally a voice of reason. You are correct.


Yup, its official ... You're an IDIOT!
Ur a Perfect fit for LOSING $ on every Uber X ride!
Uber On! Dumb dumb!


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Actionjax said:


> Mine is completely valid till my insurance company tells me otherwise.


Why on earth did you "like" my post below that completely destroys this silly uninformed statement? (Now go up 3 posts)


----------



## UberOnSD

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Why on earth did you "like" my post below that completely destroys this silly uninformed statement? (Now go up 3 posts)


Because I knew you would make a big deal about it. Hahahaha


----------



## chi1cabby

UberOnSD said:


> Most people whine about their own predicaments.


Dude this is not about your individual insurance predicament. This is about the Gap Insurance predicament of ALL UberX Drivers.
If there was NO GAP INSURANCE predicament, then there would have been no "model insurance bill" agreement that was reached between the TNC & the insurers.
That is the subject of this thread. Read the first post on this thread.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

OK Here is my stab at it.

PRESS RELEASE​
from UberPeople.net forum posters

TNCs like Uber and Lyft cannot exist without drivers. We drivers make the system work. We drivers vote, pay taxes and our legislators need to protect our interests the same way the TNC's and insurance companies are protecting theirs. There is a voice that is not being heard in the debate regarding Insurance and the Transport Network Companies. The voice of drivers.

Drivers are courteous, drive safely, and are prompt. We are there when you need us. We work long into the early hours of the morning so you don't have to drive home drunk. We use our personal cars, which we keep nice and clean for you.

*Today, posters on the above forum have created a site where drivers, and customers who support them, can send their views to their elected representatives so that any proposed laws are for benefit of all citizens, all voters. All drivers and all customers. These views are as follows:*

1. Currently, if our existing personal car insurance companies find out we are driving commercially for a TNC, our policies are void. If we are in an accident, our personal insurance companies do not have to pay, even if we are NOT online accepting customer calls at the time of an accident. If we are in an accident, we may have trouble getting other personal insurance if we decide to stop driving for the TNC. The proposed legislation does nothing to help drivers in that regard.

2. The TNCs get to levy a fee on passengers, and use the money to pay for insurance and "safety", and TNCs can keep any money not used for those expenses. Drivers receive none of this fee to offset our additional insurance costs which is higher than personal insurance.

3. The collision deductible on our cars under the TNC primary coverage is currently $1000 for Uber and $2500 for Lyft. We have no way to finance a more reasonable $500 deductible.

4. Driver's health costs are not covered at all. Only customers and third parties. This should be unacceptable to our elected officials.​
We drivers are a diverse group, and are in no position to hire lobbyists, so our only way to get your ear is to write you directly. Please make sure that drivers, who work hard, the ones who are on the front line, are properly protected.

Drivers of the Uberpeople.net forum​
(The most effective way to contact your elected representative is to send a letter, in a real envelope. It is worth 1000 emails. Just print, sign and mail.)


----------



## Lidman

UberOnSD said:


> "Voided insurance policies?" That is an outright lie. I had to send a copy of my CURRENT insurance card to Uber.
> 
> Liar liar pants on fire!


 UberonLSD .. I filled in the L you left out.


----------



## Uber-Doober

Goober said:


> They'll announce something as soon as Minnesota forces Uber to insure us properly and Uber just makes us to purchase 12 months of commercial insurance...lol
> 
> On a more serious note, no mention of Medical whatsoever in the blog post!


^^^
And how about psychiatric care? 
I guess they want all Uber drivers to turn into that German co-pilot. 
Did I say that?


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

UberOnSD said:


> Assuming that your theory regarding my insurance scenario is applicable and your draconian predictions were to come true, why would you care, since it would have no effect on you.
> 
> Most people whine about their own predicaments. I thought the only people who whined about the predicaments of others were democrat politicians and union slugs.


Just trying to keep you from misleading others, and yourself into tragedy!
(Plus, I hate when people are so steadfast in their completely wrong opinion! Haha)
Its not just "YOUR insurance scenario". Everyone is in the same shitty boat. You either have legit conforming commercial insurance specific for livery, or you dont. That simple, there are no grey areas.


----------



## chi1cabby

UberOnSD said:


> Unless you drive, you are not qualified to even have an opinion.


You supposedly drive for Uber, and yet Your Opinion is the most misinformed one on this thread. And is this because you are actually uniformed or you can't stand it being pointed out to you that there are coverage gaps in Uber's current insurance in most markets.

The insurance gap currently exists in CA for Drivers without hybrid policies or Metromile. This will change on July 1st, 2015 when all CA drivers will be required to either buy Gap Insurance coverage or Uber will provide the coverage.

Additionally STOP trolling this thread by trying to make it about YOU! This thread is NOT ABOUT YOU, it's about Uber reaching a Compromise on a Model Insurance Bill for 150K UberX Drivers throughout the US.


----------



## chi1cabby

UberOnSD said:


> How is that Mr. Cab Driver?


Read the edited post above.


----------



## chi1cabby

UberOnSD said:


> Ok, whatever. You are a tremendous bore.


Yes of course! Facts would be boring to a troll such as yourself.


----------



## UberCemetery




----------



## frndthDuvel

UberOnSD said:


> I thought the only people who whined about the predicaments of others were democrat politicians and union slugs.


Well Tea Baggers certainly do not whine about the predicament of "others". They just whine about "their own" predicament and those that look like them.


----------



## frndthDuvel

Actionjax said:


> Mine is completely valid till my insurance company tells me otherwise.


So you have not seen anything special in the mail yet?
That was the impetus to pull my head out of the sand regarding my insurance. Geico sent me a Policy Change notice prior to policy renewal. It was specifically directed at TNC activities. I could have argued that my ignorance of reading my whole policy as it related to TNC activity still made the insurance company liable. As it was not specifically spelled out. And I am sure the lawyers going against my insurance company would say the same. But with that Policy Change showing up by itself it would have been impossible.


----------



## frndthDuvel

UberOnSD said:


> So meanwhile, you make a homophobic reference. You certainly are "tolerant" aren't you.


Yes I am. Well of those who may enjoy the practice of tea bagging, gays and heterosexuals alike. Just not so much of Tea Baggers.


----------



## Actionjax

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Why on earth did you "like" my post below that completely destroys this silly uninformed statement? (Now go up 3 posts)


Then you need to understand what I say. Your insurance is not voided or canceled till there is a reason to do so. And the insurance company needs to provide proof you were doing Uber before they can do this.

I will be posting more on this later and I met with 3 people in the industry here in Canada (2 of them in investigations) and was shocked to hear what each Provence in Canada has around when a company can and can't cancel you. Regardless of what you are reading in the media it was a pretty telling situation on how companies hands are tied. In Edmonton they by law can not cancel you and in fact have a limit on how much they can charge you for insurance. It was crazy to hear that someone with multiple DUI''s can still get insurance and have it capped at an affordable rate.

Like I said wait till you hear my next post on the subject when I get more time.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Actionjax said:


> Then you need to understand what I say. Your insurance is not voided or canceled till there is a reason to do so. And the insurance company needs to provide proof you were doing Uber before they can do this.
> 
> I will be posting more on this later and I met with 3 people in the industry here in Canada (2 of them in investigations) and was shocked to hear what each Provence in Canada has around when a company can and can't cancel you. Regardless of what you are reading in the media it was a pretty telling situation on how companies hands are tied. In Edmonton they by law can not cancel you and in fact have a limit on how much they can charge you for insurance. It was crazy to hear that someone with multiple DUI''s can still get insurance and have it capped at an affordable rate.
> 
> Like I said wait till you hear my next post on the subject when I get more time.


Still, its not "completely legit until they say so", you can void it with ur uninformed actions before they ever know. You can actually PRE-VOID it with your nonconforming "breach of contract" driving activities. Then all FUTURE claims can be RETROACTIVELY REJECTED.
Then ur in a world of shit! :-( Like I say, its exactly the same as signing up for non-smoker rates, when ur actually smoking 3 packs a day. All FUTURE attempted claims will be REJECTED for insurance fraud, even though they didnt find out till the end. :-(


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

UberOnSD said:


> "Voided insurance policies?" That is an outright lie. I had to send a copy of my CURRENT insurance card to Uber.
> 
> Liar liar pants on fire!


Please, it took you 3 pages of this thread to even realize and admit you didnt even understand the topic, or the simple definition of "voiding" your insurane contract. You forever thought it was about just submitting ur current insurance certificate. You just cant fix stupid. We all rest our case ... You're not even qualified to state an opinion NEWBIE!


----------



## Sacto Burbs

Will you please put the troll on ignore and respond to my press release idea. Thank you.


----------



## frndthDuvel

Actionjax said:


> Then you need to understand what I say. Your insurance is not voided or canceled till there is a reason to do so. And the insurance company needs to provide proof you were doing Uber before they can do this.
> .


Insurance companies have been sued for 100's of millions in single cases because they tried to weasel out of paying. Now what happens after an incident would seem to be straight forward. Cancellation and hassle. But to assume ones insurance company is not going to step in and help themselves by paying early minimizing their liability, is subject to question. Especially if TNC language was not included There was nothing in my previous Geico policy that mentioned TNC. The Policy Change added to the soon to be renewed premium fixed that.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

UberOnSD said:


> Uber sux 4 drivers might be a troll, but he is fun to watch just the same.


Hahahah, he was talking about you dummy! LOL


----------



## Sacto Burbs

Children, stay on topic. My topic.


----------



## chi1cabby

*Major Insurers to Strike Deal to Support Compromise TNC Language*
*http://www.insurancejournal.com/blogs/right-street/2015/03/24/361971.htm*


----------



## chi1cabby

*NAIC rises above 'No Action Is Contemplated' on ride-sharing*
*http://www.rstreet.org/2015/03/31/naic-rises-above-no-action-is-contemplated-on-ride-sharing/*


----------



## chi1cabby

chi1cabby said:


> But I'm really concerned if Uber is going to now seek amendments in the legislature's of at least dozen States where Bills without Primary Gap Insurance coverage requirement are proceeding.
> Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, *Maryland*, New York, Kentucky, Arkansas, Idaho, Hawaii, Iowa, Arizona...these are the one's that come to mind right away.


*Compromise ridesharing legislation unlikely in Maryland Assembly*
*http://ifawebnews.com/2015/04/01/compromise-ridesharing-legislation-unlikely-in-maryland-assembly/*
*"Despite Uber's agreement on the model law nationally, the ridesharing company's Maryland lobbyists continue to push their own legislation"*


----------



## Actionjax

chi1cabby said:


> *Compromise ridesharing legislation unlikely in Maryland Assembly
> http://ifawebnews.com/2015/04/01/compromise-ridesharing-legislation-unlikely-in-maryland-assembly/
> "Despite Uber's agreement on the model law nationally, the ridesharing company's Maryland lobbyists continue to push their own legislation"*


I completely agree with what I read here. There needs to be added to policy's TNC rules and driving restrictions around it. As it sit's the grey area is language being used and there is no clear cut policy's that are written to deal with TNC companies.

I keep reading in the US what the minimum requirements for liability and think the figures are ridiculous if you take a passenger. I run 2 Million liability personally and pay a bit extra for that type of coverage. I used to run 1 Million for as long as I can remember but talking to some insurance friends of mine and seeing the bills they shell out for. 2 Million should be the new norm going forward. And if you do this part time make sure you take income replacement, That way you won't get screwed if you are in an accident and off your primary job. And Future income replacement if you are in a job with the potential where you can increase over time. (Doctors, Lawyers, Corporate jobs)

The more I read on this subject the more like Swiss cheese the insurance issues are. Holes everywhere.


----------



## UberOnSD

Actionjax said:


> I completely agree with what I read here. There needs to be added to policy's TNC rules and driving restrictions around it. As it sit's the grey area is language being used and there is no clear cut policy's that are written to deal with TNC companies.
> 
> I keep reading in the US what the minimum requirements for liability and think the figures are ridiculous if you take a passenger. I run 2 Million liability personally and pay a bit extra for that type of coverage. I used to run 1 Million for as long as I can remember but talking to some insurance friends of mine and seeing the bills they shell out for. 2 Million should be the new norm going forward. And if you do this part time make sure you take income replacement, That way you won't get screwed if you are in an accident and off your primary job. And Future income replacement if you are in a job with the potential where you can increase over time. (Doctors, Lawyers, Corporate jobs)
> 
> The more I read on this subject the more like Swiss cheese the insurance issues are. Holes everywhere.


the reason it is necessary to carry such high limits is because of crooks with law degrees who steal most of the money.


----------



## Actionjax

UberOnSD said:


> the reason it is necessary to carry such high limits is because of crooks with law degrees who steal most of the money.


Sure and regardless of where it goes we need to pay the bills. It sucks there isn't a lawyer cap to this kind of stuff. You would get far less ambulance chasers.


----------



## chi1cabby

*Tennessee | Uber Does A Switcheroo On TNC Bills That Required Primary Gap Insurance Coverage*


----------



## Actionjax

chi1cabby said:


> *Tennessee | Uber Does A Switcheroo On TNC Bills That Required Primary Gap Insurance Coverage*


So reading the article this looks like a good step in the right direction for TNC's


----------



## chi1cabby

Actionjax said:


> So reading the article this looks like a good step in the right direction for TNC's


Good step in the right direction for TNCs' "Bottom Line", to the detriment of TNC Drivers' Gap Insurance coverage.


----------



## Actionjax

chi1cabby said:


> Good step in the right direction for TNCs' "Bottom Line", to the detriment of TNC Drivers' Gap Insurance coverage.


So what is the want from drivers.

1) Uber to cover all insurance costs associated with TNC Driving (Driver runs Personal but is covered for all aspects of driving Uber)
2) Driver to be offered hybrid insurance. (Uber off the hook driver pays small increase in premiums)
3) Uber to provide insurance during APP on activities with or without rider
4)Comercial insurance for all involved with TNC activities regardless.

Just curious what would be the best method for both the TNC and the driver since both are on opposite ends of the responsibility.

I would have liked to see Uber register as an insurance provider instead of spending money on driverless cars. But that's a regulated industry and we know how Uber plays with regulations.


----------



## chi1cabby

Actionjax said:


> Just curious what would be the best method for both the TNC and the driver since both are on opposite ends of the responsibility.


This minimal Gap Insurance Coverage Agreement with Insurers, that Uber itself is touting, would a nice start. 


chi1cabby said:


> *INSURANCE ALIGNED*
> *http://blog.uber.com/insurancealigned*
> *"*An insurance mandate of *primary insurance coverage during Period 1 (logged in and available)* with minimum liability limits of $50/$100/$25K plus any other state compulsory coverage. Coverage is to be maintained by the TNC, TNC Driver, or a combination of the two."


----------



## Guest

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Please, it took you 3 pages of this thread to even realize and admit you didnt even understand the topic, or the simple definition of "voiding" your insurane contract. You forever thought it was about just submitting ur current insurance certificate. You just cant fix stupid. We all rest our case ... You're not even qualified to state an opinion NEWBIE!


Why is everyone so mean. We are all here to help each other. We all learn and research differently. I would think we would all want to support each other. Except for the cabbies on this site who seem to love to play dirty. I've learned a lot from all the posters on here and appreciate most comments. I do hope the system gets worked out because we all are trying to accomplish one thing. Earn money and safely deliver people to their places safety and economically, and looking for a way to do it in compliance with insurance. I admit I didn't know about the gap when I signed up. You don't know what you don't know! Anyway, let's all play nice guys and girls!

Liza in Tampa


----------



## Simon

UberOnSD said:


> My insurance is void when the insurance company TELLS me it is void, not a jailhouse lawyer. Besides, how do you know what insurance I have? I could have Metromile or a commercial policy, both of which are underwritten by National General Insurance.
> 
> And even if I HAD "voided" it, why would you care? That would be MY problem.


Voided insurance fraud. What's the difference uber on my friend.


----------



## DrJeecheroo

I don't think there's any difference. The only one that looks viable is the metro-mile or just outright purchasing commercial insurance for those astronomical rates.


----------



## Simon

frndthDuvel said:


> So you have not seen anything special in the mail yet?
> That was the impetus to pull my head out of the sand regarding my insurance. Geico sent me a Policy Change notice prior to policy renewal. It was specifically directed at TNC activities. I could have argued that my ignorance of reading my whole policy as it related to TNC activity still made the insurance company liable. As it was not specifically spelled out. And I am sure the lawyers going against my insurance company would say the same. But with that Policy Change showing up by itself it would have been impossible.


How do you think they found out?


----------



## frndthDuvel

Simon said:


> How do you think they found out?


I do not think they found anything out. It was not pertaining to my specific activities. It was an update of their policy as often happens. But this update to the policy was TNC related. So waht might have been generic "livery
language previously, was now TNC specific. It did get my attention. IN some other thread I believed somebody received similar from another company.


----------



## Goodjai

I've read the the TNC Insurance Model Legislation that Uber, most States and the Insurance lobby have agreed to. I'm concerned that it doesn't provide any comprehensive or collision coverage to the driver and their vehicle. The requirements placed on the TNC are liability only which means any damage to our person or vehicle is not covered by the TNC's policy. It also allows our personal insurance to opt out of any coverage for accidents that occur during the time that the TNC app is active (waiting to be paired, driving to passenger, and transporting passenger) in the vehicle. So basically this new legislation protects everyone's needs but the driver's. Am I correct?


----------



## duggles

Goodjai said:


> I've read the the TNC Insurance Model Legislation that Uber, most States and the Insurance lobby have agreed to. I'm concerned that it doesn't provide any comprehensive or collision coverage to the driver and their vehicle. The requirements placed on the TNC are liability only which means any damage to our person or vehicle is not covered by the TNC's policy. It also allows our personal insurance to opt out of any coverage for accidents that occur during the time that the TNC app is active (waiting to be paired, driving to passenger, and transporting passenger) in the vehicle. So basically this new legislation protects everyone's needs but the driver's. Am I correct?


That's been the modus operandi for most of Uber's existence. However, at some times that was glossed over with fancy marketing/PR speak.


----------

