# Driverless Cars Hitting the Road Soon in San Francisco



## Old Smokey

Well after two days of news articles bashing the increased traffic that the State approved TNC programs, aka FUBER and Lyft a new press release today. Those asked about my prophecy "The Final Countdown Begins," even I am surprised to see media release that modified autonomous cars will be on the streets of San Francisco soon. FUBER and Lyft will take all their Pool data to battle trying to keep the driver amounts as high as possible, but soon they will battle for just cars on the road. To coin a pharse from our NEW LEADER "YOU'RE FIRED."


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## Coaststarlight

Are these real driverless cars or the ones with a a small party of engineers and technicians occupying half the available seats incase it decides to become un-driverless randomly?


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## Tedgey

Coaststarlight said:


> Are these real driverless cars or the ones with a a small party of engineers and technicians occupying half the available seats incase it decides to become un-driverless randomly?


What do you think? It's none of the above. @old coughalot is making this up. Otherwise he would have provided a damned LINK ALREADY!


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## BurgerTiime

But Uber doesn't provide transportation!! They are only a technology company that enables two people to connect; one looking for a ride and the other happens to be going in the same direction! lol!!!


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## observer

https://www.cnet.com/news/uber-self-driving-cars-san-francisco-on-the-road-soon-autonomous/


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## Linux Geek

Will the driverless Uber cars in San Francisco have two Uber employees in the front seats like the driverless cars in Pittsburgh?


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## Old Smokey

Tedgey said:


> What do you think? It's none of the above. @old coughalot is making this up. Otherwise he would have provided a damned LINK ALREADY!


Copy and drag not my strong suit. Article in Uber news. Old Coughalot? Stage 4 Cancer is still terminal, denial that FUBER is moving forward to replace any and all drivers is STAGE 3.


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## observer

"Bahaddine, a full-time Uber driver not involved in the autonomous vehicle project who asked to be identified by just his first name, said Uber told drivers about its plans to launch self-driving Fords and Volvos in San Francisco. He's not too concerned, however, that robot cars will take his job.

"I'm not worried," Bahaddine said. "It's only 100 cars coming.""


This was funny, lol, how many Bahaddines could possibly work for Uber in SF.


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## LostOne

They have to rush up on all this because Google is coming up from behind real fast.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/1...pins-off-waymo-self-driving-car-business.html


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## Old Smokey

BurgerTiime said:


> But Uber doesn't provide transportation!! They are only a technology company that enables two people to connect; one looking for a ride and the other happens to be going in the same direction! lol!!!


Today FUBER is a technology company, when there are no independent contractors/partner's left then like a butterfly it will change into the WORLD'S LARGEST TRANSPORTATION COMPANY!!! Oh one more thing the prices are going up. FUBER ON


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## observer

LostOne said:


> They have to rush up on all this because Google is coming up from behind real fast.
> 
> http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/1...pins-off-waymo-self-driving-car-business.html


Google, Honda, Tesla, Nissan, Mercedes Benz, Toyota, Lexus, Apple, Ford, GM, Volkswagen, Audi, Bmw,......


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## Linux Geek

Old Smokey said:


> <SNIP> .... denial that FUBER is moving forward to replace any and all drivers is STAGE 3.


 I don't think anyone on this forum is denying Uber is moving forward. The question is how fast. I would think autonomous driving on core Los Angeles city streets is a hundred times harder engineering problem to solve than driving down the freeway, which a Tesla for example can do now. Pickups and dropoffs are going to be especially hard problems to solve.


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## Adieu

observer said:


> Google, Honda, Tesla, Nossan, Mercedes Benz, Toyota, Lexus, Apple, Ford, GM, Volkswagen, Audi, Bmw,......


I don't see a driverless Lada article...must be just a fad.


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## SurgeOrSelect

Uber is taking multibillion dollar losses with a free fleet of cars. How can Uber turn a profit when it has to pay for an autonomous fleet + gas + maintenance when it cant even do it with a free fleet. Sounds good.... But everything that glitters isn't gold.

http://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2016-08-29/uber-ipo-losing-luster-after-a-12-billion-loss


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## Tedgey

observer said:


> https://www.cnet.com/news/uber-self-driving-cars-san-francisco-on-the-road-soon-autonomous/


Thank you


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## uberer2016

My new job will be to ride uber and lyft all day in these driveless car looking for a defective unit. One accident and i get paid and will be set for life.


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## 2CV750CC

observer said:


> "Bahaddine, a full-time Uber driver not involved in the autonomous vehicle project who asked to be identified by just his first name, said Uber told drivers about its plans to launch self-driving Fords and Volvos in San Francisco. He's not too concerned, however, that robot cars will take his job.
> 
> "I'm not worried," Bahaddine said. "It's only 100 cars coming.""
> 
> This was funny, lol, how many Bahaddines could possibly work for Uber in SF.


Bahaddines - must be the Mexican dude who dines out a lot - he comes from Baja California and can't spell


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## Tedgey

Linux Geek said:


> I don't think anyone on this forum is denying Uber is moving forward. The question is how fast. I would think autonomous driving on core Los Angeles city streets is a hundred times harder engineering problem to solve than driving down the freeway, which a Tesla for example can do now. Pickups and dropoffs are going to be especially hard problems to solve.


I agree fire the most part here. Uber is inching forward in certain locations but how are they going to handle driving in DTLA where your GPS hardly even works and you have to park in a driving lane to pick up and drop off. These are solvable problems but they'll take a long time to solve. These are decisions that require judgement. Don't discount how powerful a tool your mind is and there will never be a computer that can apply judgement like the human brain.


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## Old Smokey

Tedgey said:


> I agree fire the most part here. Uber is inching forward in certain locations but how are they going to handle driving in DTLA where your GPS hardly even works and you have to park in a driving lane to pick up and drop off. These are solvable problems but they'll take a long time to solve. These are decisions that require judgement. Don't discount how powerful a tool your mind is and there will never be a computer that can apply judgement like the human brain.


FUBER and Lyft have been trying to get cities to have TNC zones, aka bus stops. They are programming the masses. Fight the system, don't become a sitting duck.


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## Old Smokey

SurgeOrSelect said:


> Uber is taking multibillion dollar losses with a free fleet of cars. How can Uber turn a profit when it has to pay for an autonomous fleet + gas + maintenance when it cant even do it with a free fleet. Sounds good.... But everything that glitters isn't gold.
> 
> http://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2016-08-29/uber-ipo-losing-luster-after-a-12-billion-loss


Think of all the boost perks, and new driver incentives. There is plenty of waste to cut from balance sheet. Remember what Travis said "The guy in the front seat is the most expensive part of rideshare."


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## Old Smokey

Tedgey said:


> I agree fire the most part here. Uber is inching forward in certain locations but how are they going to handle driving in DTLA where your GPS hardly even works and you have to park in a driving lane to pick up and drop off. These are solvable problems but they'll take a long time to solve. These are decisions that require judgement. Don't discount how powerful a tool your mind is and there will never be a computer that can apply judgement like the human brain.


Have a bigger brain than a duck. I really resent the driverless cars, I don't like how silcon valley uses H1B VISAS rather than qualified engineers here in America. Hence the birth of not paying any employer share of income and social security taxes. Don't kid yourself if FUBER and Lyft could bring in drivers from a third world country they would.


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## SurgeOrSelect

Old Smokey said:


> Think of all the boost perks, and new driver incentives. There is plenty of waste to cut from balance sheet. Remember what Travis said "The guy in the front seat is the most expensive part of rideshare."


And you believe him? I hope not. Cars have an operating cost which uber fees don't keep up with.


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## Old Smokey

SurgeOrSelect said:


> And you believe him? I hope not. Cars have an operating cost which uber fees don't keep up with.


Don't worry prices will go up to true market value. Not while any of us are driving. Travis's speech was one of those where he was touting FUBER and telling the world that "TIP is Included."


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## SurgeOrSelect

Old Smokey said:


> Don't worry prices will go up to true market value. Not while any of us are driving. Travis's speech was one of those where he was touting FUBER and telling the world that "TIP is Included."


There won't be an Uber if prices don't go up before then. You can only lose so many billions before you're KO'D


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## Koolride

Airplanes that cost around
$250 millions ,with the latest technology, still need a pilot even though they could fly by themselves, would you trust a $30k driverless car to drive you in a freeway? I rather take my chances with a Fuber driver.


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## Goobering101

SurgeOrSelect said:


> Uber is taking multibillion dollar losses with a free fleet of cars. How can Uber turn a profit when it has to pay for an autonomous fleet + gas + maintenance when it cant even do it with a free fleet. Sounds good.... But everything that glitters isn't gold.
> 
> Uber will be collecting 100% of fares which they will more than likely be raising once they become fully autonomous as opposed to just a service fee and 25% commission.


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## SurgeOrSelect

It wouldn't matter if they collected 300% fares. There is a reason the Livery and Taxi Business charge what they charge. But if you are hellbent on believing in unproven technology ran by a company that can't turn a profit when it has absolutely no overhead be my Guest Goobering101


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## kör dig

Koolride said:


> Airplanes that cost around
> $250 millions with the most latest technology still need a pilot even though they could fly by themselves, would you trust a $30k driverless car to drive you in a freeway? I rather take my chances with a Fuber driver.


No way it's going to cost $30k....
How about gas, service, tires, insurance, cleaning and what about certain stains, puke, pee, poop and broken parts, knifed seats, punctures, etc
Sounds great but it ain't happening in a long while....


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## Tedgey

Uber already owns a bunch of cars.


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## LAXpert

Who loads the luggage?


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## Old Smokey

SurgeOrSelect said:


> It wouldn't matter if they collected 300% fares. There is a reason the Livery and Taxi Business charge what they charge. But if you are hellbent on believing in unproven technology ran by a company that can't turn a profit when it has absolutely no overhead be my Guest Goobering101


7years nobody would have thought that you could dispatch a ride, pay for it thru your credit card, and have 100's of thousands of people driving for less than a dollar.


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## SurgeOrSelect

Old Smokey said:


> 7years nobody would have thought that you could dispatch a ride, pay for it thru your credit card, and have 100's of thousands of people driving for less than a dollar.


You can't. Uber is an economic fiction and fiscally unsustainable


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## Old Smokey

SurgeOrSelect said:


> Uber is taking multibillion dollar losses with a free fleet of cars. How can Uber turn a profit when it has to pay for an autonomous fleet + gas + maintenance when it cant even do it with a free fleet. Sounds good.... But everything that glitters isn't gold.
> 
> http://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2016-08-29/uber-ipo-losing-luster-after-a-12-billion-loss


Something I just noticed, you have been on the platform a very short time. Are you one of those outdated Towncar driver's who can't make it with that one stream? Livery services, taxis, and shuttle services are all on FUBER'S hit list.


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## jfinks

SurgeOrSelect said:


> Uber is taking multibillion dollar losses with a free fleet of cars. How can Uber turn a profit when it has to pay for an autonomous fleet + gas + maintenance when it cant even do it with a free fleet. Sounds good.... But everything that glitters isn't gold.
> 
> http://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2016-08-29/uber-ipo-losing-luster-after-a-12-billion-loss


Remember that "if" this ever happens and is widespread roll out, Uber will collect 100% of the fees instead of 25-30%.

Real drivers are a long way from being phased out. There are lots of legal hurdles to cross on top of the engineering and financial aspect. Then you gotta find riders willing to "ride the ghost". lol


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## Old Smokey

jfinks said:


> Remember that "if" this ever happens and is widespread roll out, Uber will collect 100% of the fees instead of 25-30%.
> 
> Real drivers are a long way from being phased out. There are lots of legal hurdles to cross on top of the engineering and financial aspect. Then you gotta find riders willing to "ride the ghost". lol


They got them to get into a car with a perfect stranger. These half ask parents will even load elementary age kids in a FUBER.


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## jfinks

Old Smokey said:


> They got them to get into a car with a perfect stranger. These half ask parents will even load elementary age kids in a FUBER.


Lol, 10000% difference between even the worst driver and a driverless car.


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## jfinks

Tedgey said:


> Uber already owns a bunch of cars.


100 cars, only 179,900 more to go.


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## Nathan Diaz

No such thing as driverLESS car. There would be an accident every 20 seconds. LET's MOVE ON, please. Enough with this, seriously. It's like talking Uber Strikes. What's wrong with you.


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## SurgeOrSelect

P


Old Smokey said:


> Something I just noticed, you have been on the platform a very short time. Are you one of those outdated Towncar driver's who can't make it with that one stream? Livery services, taxis, and shuttle services are all on FUBER'S hit list.


How could you notice that when I've been Driving for uber since Aug 2015. Every assertion you make is wrong!

You are talking about pie in the sky driverless cars that arent even in operation on a mass scale.

I'm talking about the economic reality that exist right now based off tangible facts.

[MIC DROP]


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## Trebor

San Francisco drivers should be excited about this. Obviously these cars will go the most used routes and therefore will first replace uber pool drivers if anything.


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## Jermin8r89

Keep the self driveing in cali. Im not gonna have US turn into venezuela


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## Jermin8r89

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...women-hair-selling-colombia-basic-necessities
Start growing your hair out


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## Tedgey

LAXpert said:


> Who loads the luggage?


Dunno. Urmom?


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## Tedgey

SurgeOrSelect said:


> You can't. Uber is an economic fiction and fiscally unsustainable


+1 for fiscally rather than financially or *gasp, economically


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## Tedgey

SurgeOrSelect said:


> P
> 
> How could you notice that when I've been Driving for uber since Aug 2015. Every assertion you make is wrong!
> 
> You are talking about pie in the sky driverless cars that arent even in operation on a mass scale.
> 
> I'm talking about the economic reality that exist right now based off tangible facts.
> 
> [MIC DROP]


Professor RealTime!

Time to get your knowledge on y'all


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## Tedgey

jfinks said:


> 100 cars, only 179,900 more to go.


Two words for you:

Xchange

[Picks up mic]


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## amp man

Coaststarlight said:


> Are these real driverless cars or the ones with a a small party of engineers and technicians occupying half the available seats incase it decides to become un-driverless randomly?


I've seen a few in SF that are Volvo SUVs with all the GPS crap spinning on top.
Of course all the drivers are good looking young dudes. No doubt using sex appeal to swoon prospective riders. Superficial much, Uber?
I doubt fully autonomous vehicles will be dominating anytime soon though.
So your non-livable Uber earnings are safe for now...


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## ChortlingCrison

Tedgey said:


> +1 for fiscally rather than financially or *gasp, economically


It's uber quackanomics.


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## tohunt4me

Old Smokey said:


> Well after two days of news articles bashing the increased traffic that the State approved TNC programs, aka FUBER and Lyft a new press release today. Those asked about my prophecy "The Final Countdown Begins," even I am surprised to see media release that modified autonomous cars will be on the streets of San Francisco soon. FUBER and Lyft will take all their Pool data to battle trying to keep the driver amounts as high as possible, but soon they will battle for just cars on the road. To coin a pharse from our NEW LEADER "YOU'RE FIRED."


Evil Transhumanist Satanist Robot Overlords !


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## tohunt4me

ChortlingCrison said:


> It's uber quackanomics.


" just keep them distracted"


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## tohunt4me

amp man said:


> I've seen a few in SF that are Volvo SUVs with all the GPS crap spinning on top.
> Of course all the drivers are good looking young dudes. No doubt using sex appeal to swoon prospective riders. Superficial much, Uber?
> I doubt fully autonomous vehicles will be dominating anytime soon though.
> So your non-livable Uber earnings are safe for now...


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## tohunt4me

Jermin8r89 said:


> Keep the self driveing in cali. Im not gonna have US turn into venezuela


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## observer

They were talking about this on todays Gary and Shannon show on KFI, apparently things didn't go that well at yesterdays news conference. A couple of the cars stopped in the middle of the street and had to be pulled over by the driver.


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## Old Smokey

amp man said:


> I've seen a few in SF that are Volvo SUVs with all the GPS crap spinning on top.
> Of course all the drivers are good looking young dudes. No doubt using sex appeal to swoon prospective riders. Superficial much, Uber?
> I doubt fully autonomous vehicles will be dominating anytime soon though.
> So your non-livable Uber earnings are safe for now...


Between buying Microsoft mapping, and a couple of no name companies FUBER is building its on mapping with and without these first generation cars.


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## Adieu

kör dig said:


> No way it's going to cost $30k....
> How about gas, service, tires, insurance, cleaning and what about certain stains, puke, pee, poop and broken parts, knifed seats, punctures, etc
> Sounds great but it ain't happening in a long while....


And video chat with Rajeevs shouting "CEASE AND DESiST, YOU HOOLIGANS~!!!"


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## Oscar Levant

Old Smokey said:


> Well after two days of news articles bashing the increased traffic that the State approved TNC programs, aka FUBER and Lyft a new press release today. Those asked about my prophecy "The Final Countdown Begins," even I am surprised to see media release that modified autonomous cars will be on the streets of San Francisco soon. FUBER and Lyft will take all their Pool data to battle trying to keep the driver amounts as high as possible, but soon they will battle for just cars on the road. To coin a pharse from our NEW LEADER "YOU'RE FIRED."


I'm going to be leasing a taxi in a small town, you know, a cab with a meter and a two-way radio with a live dispatcher-- the old school thing-- kind of looking forward to it, no ratings , tips, 3 bucks per mile, etcetera etcetera. After a sea of these driverless cars I think people are going to want to take a real cab.


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## freediverdude

Tedgey said:


> Two words for you:
> 
> Xchange
> 
> [Picks up mic]


Yea, I wouldn't be surprised, since I am an Xchange driver, to get an offer to "Xchange" my current car for one of these sometime soon.


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## Navy Vet

I wonder if the car will go right back to the garage when someone throws up in it?


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## Navy Vet

It's going to be awhile for people to get comfortable with the idea! Several of my riders said no Way! I don't see it working well in snow and ice!


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## elelegido

I got an email from them asking me if I wanted to work as an "operator" (not driver, operator lol) of their self driving cars-that-kind-of-drive-themselves. Did everyone get this?


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## arto71

observer said:


> They were talking about this on todays Gary and Shannon show on KFI, apparently things didn't go that well at yesterdays news conference. A couple of the cars stopped in the middle of the street and had to be pulled over by the driver.


CA DMV .
*https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcr...ticism-from-california-dmv/amp/?client=safari

"We have a permitting process in place to ensure public safety as this technology is being tested. Twenty manufacturers have already obtained permits to test hundreds of cars on California roads. Uber shall do the same*."


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## elelegido

observer said:


> They were talking about this on todays Gary and Shannon show on KFI, apparently things didn't go that well at yesterdays news conference. A couple of the cars stopped in the middle of the street and had to be pulled over by the driver.


This could be good for avoiding tickets, though:

Cop - "You went through that red light / were speeding / mowed down that granny on the crosswalk"
Driver - "Pfffftt... wasn't me; it was the car"

It's going to be interesting to see if that defence is going to work in court.


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## Tedgey

arto71 said:


> CA DMV .
> *https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcr...ticism-from-california-dmv/amp/?client=safari
> 
> "We have a permitting process in place to ensure public safety as this technology is being tested. Twenty manufacturers have already obtained permits to test hundreds of cars on California roads. Uber shall do the same*."


Sure sounds like they haven't done it yet.

Is it possible that Uber is jumping the gun and making a bunch of premature announcements? Can they possibly be chronic BSers?


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## arto71

Tedgey said:


> Sure sounds like they haven't done it yet.
> 
> Is it possible that Uber is jumping the gun and making a bunch of premature announcements? Can they possibly be chronic BSers?


I'd say more like compulsive liars .


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## observer

Just heard on radio CA is shutting this down.


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## Tedgey

observer said:


> Just heard on radio CA is shutting this down.


No. But but... but Uber said.

Noooooooo


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## arto71

observer said:


> Just heard on radio CA is shutting this down.


More business for you guys ,now all these driverless cars need to be towed to Pittsburgh .


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## Jermin8r89

Yea lets have self driveing cars. Ooooppps yahoo just got hacked with over billion users info. Next uber will get hacked and all self drivein cars stop


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## 58756

They are now raping regulators in the city. So even regulators can't stop them. Uber has no permit to operate self driving car in California and yet they still do.

https://news.google.com/news/amp?ca...uber-permit-california/?source=dam#pt0-889226


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## observer

Looks like one of them blew a Red light.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/14/13960836/uber-self-driving-car-san-francisco-red-light-safety


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## 58756

observer said:


> Looks like one of them blew a Red light.
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/14/13960836/uber-self-driving-car-san-francisco-red-light-safety


Why didn't the human driver hit the brakes? I bet you that dude will be fired soon.


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## observer

observer said:


> Looks like one of them blew a Red light.
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/14/13960836/uber-self-driving-car-san-francisco-red-light-safety


Looks like Uber is blaming drivers.


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## Bart McCoy

Apparently theres a human driver AND an uber employee in the front passenger seat.
Wonder how they handle pickups of 4


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## TangoDriver

FUBER ON!

WATCH OUT FOLKS, FINALLY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE DRIVERLESS MOVING TOILETS VERY SOON, COURTESY OF FUBER.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...a-permit-for-self-driving-cars/?client=safari

Volvo cars to boot...


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## 123dragon

This might be off topic but AI automation looks really real. Look at this amazon go store opening next year:






It will be interesting to see how that works out. Would be awesome not to have to wait in a check out line.


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## Adieu

Jermin8r89 said:


> Yea lets have self driveing cars. Ooooppps yahoo just got hacked with over billion users info. Next uber will get hacked and all self drivein cars stop


....or decide to chase cats and grannies up a tree


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## RedoBeach

BurgerTiime said:


> But Uber doesn't provide transportation!! They are only a technology company that enables two people to connect; one looking for a ride and the other happens to be going in the same direction! lol!!!


Best comment. Seriously- there's no circular argument available on this one. 5 stars.


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## RedoBeach

observer said:


> "Bahaddine, a full-time Uber driver not involved in the autonomous vehicle project who asked to be identified by just his first name, said Uber told drivers about its plans to launch self-driving Fords and Volvos in San Francisco. He's not too concerned, however, that robot cars will take his job.
> 
> "I'm not worried," Bahaddine said. "It's only 100 cars coming.""
> 
> This was funny, lol, how many Bahaddines could possibly work for Uber in SF.


Probably more than we realize


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## RedoBeach

Tedgey said:


> I agree fire the most part here. Uber is inching forward in certain locations but how are they going to handle driving in DTLA where your GPS hardly even works and you have to park in a driving lane to pick up and drop off. These are solvable problems but they'll take a long time to solve. These are decisions that require judgement. Don't discount how powerful a tool your mind is and there will never be a computer that can apply judgement like the human brain.


Speaking of... Have you ever driven San Francisco, let alone Uber in San Francisco?! 
After 10 years LA cruising, LaLa's got nothin on SF! 

_(Pedestrians jumping out from all crevices with eyes glued to phones, panicked wide-eyed tourists Frozen and unable to move, gigantic hills with no visible crest/downgrade, intersections that look like city design was an afterthought, crackheads who wander & like to entertain randomly mid-road, construction on every major street & side street, potholes galore, no left turns for miles, no left turns between 4-7pm, one ways every which way and narrow alley way roads with lots of illegally parked cars & bums blocking every which way, taxi only lanes, single lanes, muni only lanes, train tracks, no stopping major streets, entitled Millenials who've never had to endure a real cab & refuse to walk 2 ft., etc etc etc)!_


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## Adieu

RedoBeach said:


> Speaking of... Have you ever driven San Francisco, let alone Uber in San Francisco?!
> After 10 years LA cruising, LaLa's got nothin on SF!
> 
> _(Pedestrians jumping out from all crevices with eyes glued to phones, panicked wide-eyed tourists Frozen and unable to move, gigantic hills with no visible crest/downgrade, intersections that look like city design was an afterthought, crackheads who wander & like to entertain randomly mid-road, construction on every major street & side street, potholes galore, no left turns for miles, no left turns between 4-7pm, one ways every which way and narrow alley way roads with lots of illegally parked cars & bums blocking every which way, taxi only lanes, single lanes, muni only lanes, train tracks, no stopping major streets, entitled Millenials who've never had to endure a real cab & refuse to walk 2 ft., etc etc etc)!_


Wait is this DTLA or SF you're describing?


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## Tedgey

123dragon said:


> This might be off topic but AI automation looks really real. Look at this amazon go store opening next year:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see how that works out. Would be awesome not to have to wait in a check out line.


Just walk out technology? I'm familiar.


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## Tedgey

RedoBeach said:


> Pedestrians jumping out from all crevices with eyes glued to phones, panicked wide-eyed tourists Frozen and unable to move, gigantic hills with no visible crest/downgrade, intersections that look like city design was an afterthought, crackheads who wander & like to entertain randomly mid-road, construction on every major street & side street, potholes galore, no left turns for miles, no left turns between 4-7pm, one ways every which way and narrow alley way roads with lots of illegally parked cars & bums blocking every which way, taxi only lanes, single lanes, muni only lanes, train tracks, no stopping major streets, entitled Millenials who've never had to endure a real cab & refuse to walk 2 ft., etc etc etc!


And that's just until I get out of my driveway!


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## Disgruntled

The novelty of the self driving car will wear off quickly when Uber realizes THEY have to PAY for the car, gas, maintenance, insurance, etc.


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## Jermin8r89

Ok i gotta put this out here as i think its something to think about .U can be a slave to work anything to do something for another person with consential scent is slavery. I love how people say this uber is slavery and it is but u going to school and other people feel they have no choice cuz of the propaganda machiene is slavery. Alot of people in school r bound to student debt for a long time if not for all their lives. Technology is biggest slavery of all. I grow my own food,make my own food make my own heat with wood stove im hopeing pretty soon to go up to alaska soon for more freedom. I like uber as its like the lemon aid stands,going out to do yard work u know blue collar if u need money u can get it. Laboready also is good where u can work for the day then get payed sameday but now its more system where u go and dont get payed for 2 weeks. Everyone thinks big brother is gonna help them. Wake up people! If u fall behind on mortgage cuz u gotta pay for school. Nope.

SDCs is much different then people moveing from horse and buggy. U still have to have skill to drive a car. As SDCs u take all ur freedoms away. When u crash into someone else u penalized. Now heres scary thing when a SDC crashs and kills someone noone is gonna be at fault they will try and pimpoint it on passenger still. (Tyranny anyone) If we kill someone we should atleast get involentary manslauter heres the meaning

Causing another person's death through reckless behavior, or in the commission of another crime but without intent to kill, carries a lighter sentence than most other forms of homicide, like first or second degree murder. That's because society, through it's judges and representatives, has determined that it's important to distinguish between the serial killer and the absent minded driver.

That being said, although involuntary manslaughter sentences differ among the states, the crime is usually treated as a felony at both the federal and state level. This means that it can be punished by at least 12 months imprisonment, fines and probation, among other sentences

When some people got killed in tesla nothing happened? If im forman on work site and someone dies on my watch. Im getting slammed. Oh wait hes big head in system hes untouched. More and more technoligy the more big brother is invovled. U think we all gonna go to college and be ceos? Hahaha.

Uber is good cuz u can make ur own money and time as compared to real work. Reaal work u gotta tell someone i have to go to the bathroom or come up with an excuse or wait. Im also a trucker too. 
Hello SDCs RIP freedom


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## Argantes

Are they going to put a camera to see what the riders do in the car? Any news about that? Invasion of privacy issue, but then again how will they monitor people?


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## 58756

With that Uber illegal self driving car running a red light--it looks like I won't have to go hunting for whale vommit after all.


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## d0n

SurgeOrSelect said:


> Uber is taking multibillion dollar losses with a free fleet of cars. How can Uber turn a profit when it has to pay for an autonomous fleet + gas + maintenance when it cant even do it with a free fleet. Sounds good.... But everything that glitters isn't gold.
> 
> http://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2016-08-29/uber-ipo-losing-luster-after-a-12-billion-loss


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## Dutch-Ub

First you lose your livelyhood to the sdc's.. then they Run you over, that's how the Machines will remember this era, long after the human species is extint.


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## Trebor

and this is no more..

https://uberpeople.net/threads/dmv-...ber-to-stop-rides-in-self-driving-car.125193/


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## Karl Marx

Tedgey said:


> Just walk out technology? I'm familiar.


If drones can now fly remotely, do real time AI monitoring, make autonomous decisions to eliminate a target and without executive approval than I am afraid to say that Uber thinks it has the same credentials. My limited reading of AI and intelligent machines has me rethinking what the autonomous industrial capitalists are capable of in the very near future.

Pedro Domingos, author of The Master Algorithm argues that 'programming' these vehicles is not possible. Current consensus in the CS community is that these algorithms need to merge with and interact with the large data sets now being captured within the Uber ecosystem. Uber's human drivers are contributing to this new automation by helping to create these large databases that are assisting these self learning vehicles.

In other words machines are now making mistakes from these errors but more importantly we have started to interface bayesian networks that use probability outcomes to let machines learn and more importantly decide for themselves. The human monitor is temporarily in the driver seat to tell the machine if it has done something incorrect.

Think of when you first learned to drive and you were driving with your Dad and you first practiced in the parking lot, stop and starting, using the turn signals, than graduating from the parking lot to the local streets, finally onto the service roads and to the freeway. Autonomous cars are presently at the neighbourhood level. As self learning machines process larger data sets more inefficiently, these vehicles will gradually infiltrate our freeways with complete self guidance.

Uber doesn't have any human labour constraints going forward with the knowledge that it will obsolesce its' human workforce. Ubers' autonomous policies despite regulators objections eliminates the risk of falling behind its' competitors. By ignoring or contesting regulators it does run the near term risk of a serious or fatal set of crashes. However, in the technology world it must take these existential risks to keep its' dominance in the new autonomous transportation markets.

Many jurisdictions haven't even defined the parameters of the legal or moral responsibilities of the owners of these learning machines. The transportation sector is the low hanging fruit on the automation tree. With 10 million transportation workers in the United States this labour market represents the holy grail of the benefits of self learning machines and the replacement of expensive and meddlesome human capital.

For all the naysayers of learning of machines it behooves us all to ignore this existential threat to work both boring and repetitive. Once this barrier of human tasking is obsolesced we will quickly be moving learning machines into professions such as teaching, legal, banking and accounting in short order. Not once during the presidential elections was there even a discussion or mention of automation which now represents the second gravest issue confronting mankind besides global warming.

Every day and hour you work behind the wheel for Uber you are contributing to not just your own limited remaining working life but for millions of others just like yourself. This theft of our collective and intellectual capital is just the beginning of a long descent into a new slavery. The new machines and their owners will rule with unimaginable cruelty. That we collectively and unwittingly allowed this to happen without any discussion or reparations makes us deserving of the hardships this new order will impose.


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## Dutch-Ub

Still takes them 2 hours to calculate the fare on some short rides.


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## Tedgey

Can't they develop AI in a simulator kind of like an airplane? They can run 24/7, they can use whatever city they want, they can create any situation imaginable...


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## Jermin8r89

Goddanm it humans. U went to the moon now u dont want to anymore. Now u want to just want to make a war witj AI. We could have went to space like star wars by now. Nope.


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## Karl Marx

Tedgey said:


> Just walk out technology? I'm familiar.


AI is going to eliminate even the most menial jobs including people who replenish shelves. Retail represents 1 in 4 American workers or 29 million people. Retail banking is already on schedule to eliminate several million jobs over the next several years. With the rapid rise of FinTech the loss of jobs in the retail banking and finance sector could be a severe jolt to western economies.

Many government agencies are off loading health care and licensing services to large multi nationals that have started automating and implementing down sizing operation plans within AI biometric systems. Think of anything you line up for now and it will be automated in the next few years.

The future of work is less work and the remaining tasks that employ higher value added will be non unionized and human capital intensive. The future will be bullshit jobs where the cost of automation is less than the added value of a machine. The one type of work that Americans might be willing or forced to return to is farm labour. Presently 1 to 3 million workers from outside the US travel every year to work the farm fields. Strangely these seasonal jobs could suddenly be highly sought after in the years ahead. Society should look forward to more car washes that employ able bodied men rather than machines.


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## Stephen

Self-Driving Ubers running red lights in San Fransisco...

https://consumerist.com/2016/12/15/...ns/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


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## Jermin8r89

Stephen said:


> Self-Driving Ubers running red lights in San Fransisco...
> 
> https://consumerist.com/2016/12/15/...ns/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


Like i say u have big brother running your life so they will blame u cuz u not part of thier system. Its their way or no way.


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## Novus Caesar

Again, what happens when Bubba throws up in the car or even worse, urinates in the seat? Who will know until the next rider gets in? Who gets blamed? What happens when it pulls up and the wrong person gets in it? What happens if a person passes out or is too drunk to get out of the vehicle? How does it know if a 12 year old is getting on instead of an adult? How will it drive the near drunk passengers thru fast food at 2:00 am?

I see issues with this.


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## Karl Marx

Novus Caesar said:


> Again, what happens when Bubba throws up in the car or even worse, urinates in the seat? Who will know until the next rider gets in? Who gets blamed? What happens when it pulls up and the wrong person gets in it? What happens if a person passes out or is too drunk to get out of the vehicle? How does it know if a 12 year old is getting on instead of an adult? How will it drive the near drunk passengers thru fast food at 2:00 am?
> 
> I see issues with this.


There will be a special ride share service just for deplorables.


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## Driving and Driven

There are "Way mo" companies (pardon the pun) out there getting the autonomous vehicle on the road that are, or plan to be, in direct competition with Uber. It seems, everyone who is serious about developing autonomous vehicles, has also suddenly had an epiphany about delving into rideshare as well.

Let the games begin.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/12/13/googles-self-driving-car-unit-spins-out-as-waymo/


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## 123dragon

Novus Caesar said:


> Again, what happens when Bubba throws up in the car or even worse, urinates in the seat? Who will know until the next rider gets in? Who gets blamed? What happens when it pulls up and the wrong person gets in it? What happens if a person passes out or is too drunk to get out of the vehicle? How does it know if a 12 year old is getting on instead of an adult? How will it drive the near drunk passengers thru fast food at 2:00 am?
> 
> I see issues with this.


Automation isn't all or nothing. It will be just like trucks, you will have 1 person monitoring 10 cars. The cars will be equipped with all kinds of cameras. The Amazon Go store will have people in it to. Just drastically less people then a normal retail store.


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## 123dragon

Karl Marx said:


> Pedro Domingos, author of The Master Algorithm argues that 'programming' these vehicles is not possible. Current consensus in the CS community is that these algorithms need to merge with and interact with the large data sets now being captured within the Uber ecosystem. Uber's human drivers are contributing to this new automation by helping to create these large databases that are assisting these self learning vehicles.


Agree! That's why NVIDIA is up 5 fold in the stock market this year. It looks like more companies are going this way of building the data sets and adjusting the algorithms. Tesla also most the switch to the NVIDIA autonomous architecture recently. All those tesla and uber that are autonomous are driving around passing areas 100 to 1000s of times and developing deeper learning of how to handle situations in the context of those places and general behavior. Pittsburg and San Francisco will be the first places with fully autonomous cars.


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## Karl Marx

Driving and Driven said:


> There are "Way mo" companies (pardon the pun) out there getting the autonomous vehicle on the road that are, or plan to be, in direct competition with Uber. It seems, everyone who is serious about developing autonomous vehicles, has also suddenly had an epiphany about delving into rideshare as well.
> 
> Let the games begin.
> 
> https://techcrunch.com/2016/12/13/googles-self-driving-car-unit-spins-out-as-waymo/
> 
> View attachment 81996


Interesting that this technology is moving faster than many who follow this even thought possible just a few months ago. The ever growing size of data sets that are monitoring and storing these beta vehicles actions are nearing a millions actions of prediction outcomes per second. The mathematicians and statisticians who could never really imagine a useful purpose for Bayesian networks, until now, totally understand the technology implications. Interesting how the 17th C statisticians and 21 st century applied mathematicians have merged to create this new technology.

We will find the holly grail of a learning algorithm or set of them and it might not be a matter of years. The future has arrived with new predictive technology. The more important technology will be the social engineering side and its disruptive consequences. Imagine climbing into a autonomous vehicle powered with an AI human like interface. You can choose the gender of your vehicle and even the type of conversation style you would be willing to prompt and engage in.

The more insidious side of this will be the military, police, surveillance agencies, compliance and enforcement applications. Even Canadians are tossing their hat in the ring with RIM's QNX and the U of Waterloo along with GM Cadillac. Many of these new computer sensors will be incorporated into our clothing and handsets. We are in the midst of a technology race between the Russians and the Americans, Russians are ahead of us when it comes cyber warfare.

Climate data are now being archived by the U of Toronto before the beginning of the Trump presidency and these large data sets must be preserved so that they may interface with predictive technology. Canada this past week spent 460 million for a new supercomputer that will be making weather predictions and forecasts. Future climate disruption will make it imperative to understand this new large data climate modelling. Canadians, Europeans and the Chinese will do the modelling that Americans will abandon at the federal government research level.

In the meantime Americans need to protect their intellectual capital, a job that they've been doing terrible at. We must assume Russians know as much or more than we do, they have a huge number or mathematicians and statisticians who are just as creative as ours. I recall a Professor doing artificial knee research who patented materials for knee replacement. In his lab a grad student back in the 90's came across a Russian abstract that would have saved him and his colleague 5 years of research because of the Russian Space station experimental human stress tests.

We ignore the war like stance and provocations of the Russians at our peril. The Chinese are not the enemy, its' the Russians who are up to no good. Americans also need to quickly adopt the block chain and begin by first of all hardening our digital economic structures. The federal reserve needs to be modernized and move to agent based modelling. Macro/micro learning machines need to be quickly designed and built. Russians will continue to infiltrate are systems both military and civilian. Putin is the trouble maker.


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## Driving and Driven

I knew it. I should have never posted my comment.

I just knew it was going to inspire someone to launch into a political tirade. My bad.


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## Karl Marx

Linux Geek said:


> I don't think anyone on this forum is denying Uber is moving forward. The question is how fast. I would think autonomous driving on core Los Angeles city streets is a hundred times harder engineering problem to solve than driving down the freeway, which a Tesla for example can do now. Pickups and dropoffs are going to be especially hard problems to solve.


In Toronto Uber has a fleet of Mercedes that retrace the drivers routes where they 've met and dropped off riders. I am not sure if this was the case throughout cities where Uber operates but in Toronto they were working to this acquiring this data collection 18 months ago.

The challenges for Uber here and in European cities is that we have a large fleet of streetcars and buses with many Toronto human drivers that make horrible errors. Even my short time as a driver in the core was tempered quickly and I realized it was only a matter of time before I would be hit by inexperienced and or an ill mannered drivers.


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## Karl Marx

youCANoptOUTofPOOL said:


> graphic design is not my field if you can do better feel free trying to get 1 big pic with all the info to spread.
> 
> this is a work in progress send ideas to add
> 
> this will go nationwide like last years, i know these things dont work for the most part but we all know another round of cuts are coming
> 
> so why not onces its completes spam EVERYWHERE lets go people


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## Karl Marx

Thats' a great start and I'll try and improve this, I love the hashtags!


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## Disgruntled

You have to wonder why they're doing this at all. They're spending untold millions to eliminate the cheapest part of their entire business model . . . the driver. I'm telling you, this doesn't fit with their business model. They make most of their money by screwing over the driver.

They're going to get this up, running and approved then watch . . . the very next thing you'll see is an offer for people to "invest" by selling the cars as "mini-businesses." THAT will put them right back where they are now which is skimming money off the reported fare, underpaying the driver (it will be the "owner/operator" instead), not owning the car and not paying ANY of the expenses. That is the ONLY way this works for them. One would hope nobody would be stupid enough to fall for this but then again look at how they keep tricking regular folks like us into thinking that being a "partner" is a good deal.


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## Kevin7889

SurgeOrSelect said:


> Uber is taking multibillion dollar losses with a free fleet of cars. How can Uber turn a profit when it has to pay for an autonomous fleet + gas + maintenance when it cant even do it with a free fleet. Sounds good.... But everything that glitters isn't gold.
> 
> http://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2016-08-29/uber-ipo-losing-luster-after-a-12-billion-loss


True, it could be silver


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## Jermin8r89

Disgruntled said:


> You have to wonder why they're doing this at all. They're spending untold millions to eliminate the cheapest part of their entire business model . . . the driver. I'm telling you, this doesn't fit with their business model. They make most of their money by screwing over the driver.
> 
> They're going to get this up, running and approved then watch . . . the very next thing you'll see is an offer for people to "invest" by selling the cars as "mini-businesses." THAT will put them right back where they are now which is skimming money off the reported fare, underpaying the driver (it will be the "owner/operator" instead), not owning the car and not paying ANY of the expenses. That is the ONLY way this works for them. One would hope nobody would be stupid enough to fall for this but then again look at how they keep tricking regular folks like us into thinking that being a "partner" is a good deal.


They r putting their sticky hands everywhere. Rideshareing and delveries if they can put their SDCs in san fran illegally and noone doing anything well its matter of time befor they can control all of transportation. Eliminate compition and be in political background they r untouchable. I dont think they will die out they working with government to control the population


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## observer




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## Lui

LAXpert said:


> Who loads the luggage?


True...and who's gonna go up 3 flights of stairs to deliver McDonald's? There's gonna have to be a whole culture change to get them fata$$es to pick up they food curbside.


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## Jermin8r89

observer said:


> View attachment 82221


Who r the 20 other companies?


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## BallerX

SurgeOrSelect said:


> Uber is taking multibillion dollar losses with a free fleet of cars. How can Uber turn a profit when it has to pay for an autonomous fleet + gas + maintenance when it cant even do it with a free fleet. Sounds good.... But everything that glitters isn't gold.
> 
> http://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2016-08-29/uber-ipo-losing-luster-after-a-12-billion-loss


You're not taking into account they will be keeping 100% of the fares with driverless cars and they outlay to buy them will only be once and be tax deductible. Also keep in mind a massive amount of Uber's expenses right now are spent recruiting new drivers.


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## hangarcat

Uber continues self-driving vehicle testing in SF in defiance of DMV

http://flip.it/CcfDr2


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## RedoBeach

Adieu said:


> Wait is this DTLA or SF you're describing?


SF. La roads are not bad compared to SF. The downfall in LA is that you often end up so far away after a full day Ubering.


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## RedoBeach

elelegido said:


> I got an email from them asking me if I wanted to work as an "operator" (not driver, operator lol) of their self driving cars-that-kind-of-drive-themselves. Did everyone get this?
> 
> View attachment 81714


Yes, I made a new post on it a few days ago linking an article published indicating it might be a scam.

Someone that applied in another state and went through the lengthy multi-day interview process that included homework said Uber was using the work of those applying to gather free research and had no intention of filling the positions or paying the published salary.


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## tohunt4me

Jermin8r89 said:


> Keep the self driveing in cali. Im not gonna have US turn into venezuela


Car jacker will simply step in front of them to rob every single last passenger in them !
A machine will never SEE IT COMING !


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## RedoBeach

Jermin8r89 said:


> Goddanm it humans. U went to the moon now u dont want to anymore. Now u want to just want to make a war witj AI. We could have went to space like star wars by now. Nope.


They've been doing much more in space than we'll ever know. Black ops secret space programs.


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## RedoBeach

This photo was taken Friday. They clearly haven't retracted the SDC's from the road since the Attorney General issued a statement Thursday calling them off until they are legal. Uber DOESNT GIVE A SHET.

Ever since the CPUC folded and allowed Uber and Lyft to continue despite blatant disregard for the existing laws and regulations 5 years ago, Uber thinks they're above all laws and acts accordingly in the way they do business and handle drivers.

There was one person in the driver's seat of the vehicle.


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## UberNaToo

Do you think people will finally start tipping?


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## Retired Senior

Old Smokey said:


> They got them to get into a car with a perfect stranger. These half ask parents will even load elementary age kids in a FUBER.


Smokey, I've been talking to my riders about this, in our post-industrial, poverty stricken city of Bridgeport Ct., and most people agree that the Baby Boomer generation will have to die off before these driverless cars become popular. We may be backwards.... or simply suspicious!


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## Tommy Tours

This is along way off so far. Notice they were Volvo SUV's safety first. Another time a guy is sitting behind the wheel, on one shot the guy has his hand on the wheel. I believe they also tested Ford Fusion, I haven't seen it on a Prius. Funny how they show the SUV blows a red light and Uber blames human error. Already the excuses.


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## Jermin8r89

Uber is to destroy this country as they cant wait to contribute

*Percentage of Young Americans Living With Parents Rises to 75-Year High*
*Household formations by millennials lag behind other economic recoveries; high rents, mortgage standards cited*

*he number of millennials who fail to leave the nest has been climbing for the past 10 years, with the trend starting shortly before the Great Recession of 2008 but accelerating during the downturn and the recovery. The phenomenon is tied to a few factors, ranging from society shifts to economic headwinds. For one, Americans are delaying marriage and starting families. But the bigger issue may be the triple whammy of low wages, student debt and rapidly escalating rents.*

*The typical undergraduate student borrower had $30,100 in student loan debt in 2016, a surge of 53 percent in just one decade, according to the Institute of College Access and Success.

Since the recession, housing prices have regained their footing. Rents have skyrocketed, thanks to the confluence of higher housing prices and the increased demand for rental apartments.

"For most people who take the traditional trajectory, you might rent, then you are ready to buy a home," Young said. "But if people are living with relatives, it means they aren't even able to rent. The rental prices are very high in some urban areas, and those are barriers for people to move out."

Millennials are also earning less than Generation X took home at the same age, according to Pew. Millennial households in 2014 earned median income of $61,003, compared with an inflation-adjusted $63,365 for Gen Xers in 1998.

That's created a perfect storm for parents and the real estate market: Homeownership rates for Americans in their 20s and 30s have plummeted, according to Harvard's Joint Center for Housing Studies. It's likely the impact will only worsen in the next few years since some young graduates have deferred their loan repayments, and those grace periods are coming to an end, the report predicted
*


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## Sheryl Varien

I am in San Jose just South of San Francisco and I just heard the report today that they are already shutting that down! Legalities or something. I was kinda wondering if the correct terminology would be instead of driver you would be a Conductor. Just thinking.


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## Donuts

Sheryl Varien said:


> I am in San Jose just South of San Francisco and I just heard the report today that they are already shutting that down! Legalities or something. I was kinda wondering if the correct terminology would be instead of driver you would be a Conductor. Just thinking.


Shut down in Cali, loaded robot cars onto trucks , moved fleet to sunny Az - home to Google's robot cars- where the Gov welcomed them with open arms.


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## Tnasty

Easy to say when they never pay for anything on our end.


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## JqYork

These computer-driven cars are going to turn out just like computer-driven language translation. Remember how that worked? They got up to a certain point and couldn't go any farther. Like they could translate from one language to another and get it about 80% right. But that last 20% has taken years to get over and they still haven't done it.

I just watched a video of one of the driverless car and the human driver behind the wheel. It looked like about a 10 or 15 minute trip and he felt the need to take the controls at least 3 different times. At one point a car swerved into his lane and he took the controls because he didn't trust the computer to get it right. And when he turned down one street, he said he had to take the controls on that entire street because it was a little quirky and the computer driver couldn't figure it out.

So, Uber makes it sound like the technology is all ready to go. They can tout how many miles the car can drive without any human rescue efforts. But when you think about it - these cars are going to have to be at 100% - where a human never has to take over the controls. Even at 99.99% they're going to be very dangerous. And getting from where they are now - at say 95% - to 100% is going to take many times the effort that getting to 95% has taken. It's years and years away.

Check out the difference between spin and reality. This first video is a promotional video from Uber. Look how they make it look like the car is absolutely perfect and ready to go...






Then check out the video at the bottom of this page, where a driverless car "driver" is actually being pretty honest about the car as he drives it. Notice how many times he has to take the controls. And remember, if a human has to take the controls even one time - the driverless car is a FAILURE. It cannot be put onto the roads until a human would NEVER have to take the wheel. And that's a long, long ways off.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/22/14052234/uber-electric-fleet-tesla-madrid


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## observer

JqYork said:


> These computer-driven cars are going to turn out just like computer-driven language translation. Remember how that worked? They got up to a certain point and couldn't go any farther. Like they could translate from one language to another and get it about 80% right. But that last 20% has taken years to get over and they still haven't done it.
> 
> I just watched a video of one of the driverless car and the human driver behind the wheel. It looked like about a 10 or 15 minute trip and he felt the need to take the controls at least 3 different times. At one point a car swerved into his lane and he took the controls because he didn't trust the computer to get it right. And when he turned down one street, he said he had to take the controls on that entire street because it was a little quirky and the computer driver couldn't figure it out.
> 
> So, Uber makes it sound like the technology is all ready to go. They can tout how many miles the car can drive without any human rescue efforts. But when you think about it - these cars are going to have to be at 100% - where a human never has to take over the controls. Even at 99.99% they're going to be very dangerous. And getting from where they are now - at say 95% - to 100% is going to take many times the effort that getting to 95% has taken. It's years and years away.
> 
> Check out the difference between spin and reality. This first video is a promotional video from Uber. Look how they make it look like the car is absolutely perfect and ready to go...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then check out the video at the bottom of this page, where a driverless car "driver" is actually being pretty honest about the car as he drives it. Notice how many times he has to take the controls. And remember, if a human has to take the controls even one time - the driverless car is a FAILURE. It cannot be put onto the roads until a human would NEVER have to take the wheel. And that's a long, long ways off.
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/22/14052234/uber-electric-fleet-tesla-madrid


"Notice how many times he has to take the controls. And remember, if a human has to take the controls even one time - the driverless car is a FAILURE. "

Every time a driver has to take control it must be reported to CA DMV, which is why Uber wanted to skip the permit and got booted out of CA.


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