# long distance trip rider



## JayJay108 (Sep 14, 2015)

It'd be my first time using Uber. I gotta get from Orlando near the airport to Jacksonville tomorrow leaving around 8am. How willing are drivers to make long trips like that?


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## xciceroguy (Aug 10, 2015)

Not sure what the distance is but I'd be thrilled.


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## JayJay108 (Sep 14, 2015)

xciceroguy said:


> Not sure what the distance is but I'd be thrilled.


its around 150 miles.


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## Gretzky (Aug 1, 2015)

I'd be all in for a 150 mile trip!!!


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## JayJay108 (Sep 14, 2015)

Gretzky said:


> I'd be all in for a 150 mile trip!!!


well hopefully someone'll be interested tomorrow morning!


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## Gretzky (Aug 1, 2015)

JayJay108 said:


> well hopefully someone'll be interested tomorrow morning!


I don't think you'll have any trouble getting a driver for this! Too bad you're not in SoCal  Seriously though, no driver in their right mind would turn this ride down!!!


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

Gretzky said:


> I don't think you'll have any trouble getting a driver for this! Too bad you're not in SoCal  Seriously though, no driver in their right mind would turn this ride down!!!


Well some have other jobs they have to get to and don't have the time, and some aren't driving cost efficient enough vehicles to make money on 1:1 paid to dead miles...but yeah, many drivers will do this trip no questions asked. Best bet is to text your driver asap and let them know the trip is long, make sure it is ok. You may also want to tip them, since they will be racking up a huge number of dead miles (unpaid miles) to get back to where they can pick people up again.


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## Snowtop (Nov 11, 2014)

Only way I accept this trip is with an up front payment of at least $50.00 to compensate me for the deadhead return trip.


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

This is the perfect thread that shows the difference between uber drivers that know how to do this and don't. This is a TERRIBLE ride. TERRIBLE. 

Orlando rates are $0.13c a minute and $0.75c a mile. The ride is 150 miles (I live in Houston so I'm using someone else's estimate). It sounds like its mostly highway so I'm going to assume an MPH of 60 (some morning traffic needs to be accounted for.

So: 150 miles * .75 a mile is $112.50
150 minutes * .13 a minute is $19.50
plus 1$ base fee
Total gross is $133.00

Minus Uber commission of 20% ($26.60) leaves a net of $106.4. That means you profit $0.71 a mile for the ride. Subtract out the $0.575 mileage cost (gas/depreciation/maintenance) and you get $.135 per mile profit, or $20.25.

BUT WAIT! You have to deadhead it back because there is 0.0000% chance you will magically get a rider in Jacksonville that wants to get back to Orlando. So let's look at the numbers assuming 300 total miles now:

Net take home of $106.4. That equals $0.355 per mile (now 300 miles). Subtract out $0.575 and you get a LOSS of $0.22 per mile. That's a total of $66.00 in losses for the trip.

Bottomline, any driver who takes this trip is losing money and should immediately quit until they figure out how this all works.


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

Snowtop said:


> Only way I accept this trip is with an up front payment of at least $50.00 to compensate me for the deadhead return trip.


You'd still lose $16.00. That's how bad this trip is.


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## DieselkW (Jul 21, 2015)

I checked the Uber "how are fares calculated" page, and did a fare estimate for Orlando airport to Jacksonville center. It will cost about $135 - exactly as UberMensch calculated.

Driver gets $108 for a 300 mile, 6 hour round trip.

That's $0.36 per mile. At 25mpg, fuel at $2.25 per gallon fuel alone is going to cost the poor guy 9 cents a mile. I don't know where the fifty seven cents per mile comes from, unless that's the current IRS deduction rate, which is no where near the actual cost to drive.

So, if he wants to take this trip, it's going to pay him twenty seven cents per mile. $81.00 for 6 hours, or $13/hour. Less the .0001% use of his tires and .5% of his 7500 mile oil change.

The good news is he can deduct on his taxes for this ride, 57 and a half cents per mile although it will only cost about ten cents a mile.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

DieselkW said:


> I checked the Uber "how are fares calculated" page, and did a fare estimate for Orlando airport to Jacksonville center. It will cost about $135 - exactly as UberMensch calculated.
> 
> Driver gets $108 for a 300 mile, 6 hour round trip.
> 
> ...


That is horrible.


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

DieselkW said:


> I checked the Uber "how are fares calculated" page, and did a fare estimate for Orlando airport to Jacksonville center. It will cost about $135 - exactly as UberMensch calculated.
> 
> Driver gets $108 for a 300 mile, 6 hour round trip.
> 
> ...


I hear this from drivers all the time. The feeling that the mileage deduction is not accruate and that there real costs of drving are less than $0.575 a mile. This is what Uber wants you to think, and it is wrong. The IRS deduction rate is, indeed, a good approximation of the actual cost to drive.

From the Detroit News: 
_
"Fuel costs only represent a portion of what the IRS considers when it produces mileage rates, said Jennifer Jenkins, western Pennsylvania spokeswoman for the tax service. The IRS relies on a variety of fixed and variable factors.
The government has calculated that it is becoming more expensive for drivers to own, lease, insure and maintain their vehicles. Those increases more than offset fuel savings, at least for now.
IRS mileage rates are based on research from Runzheimer International, a travel management firm in Wisconsin. The government has worked with the company for the past 35 years, said Cris Robinson, research analysis supervisor with Runzheimer.
"Even when your operational costs are going down - that's the fuel, the maintenance, the tires, the oil, all of those things - the fixed costs are usually a little bit more as far as the annual cost of the vehicle," Robinson said.
Those fixed costs, which include vehicle depreciation, have been rising steadily since the late 2000s, she said."_

My numbers are accurate. He doesn't make any money on the trip. He loses money.


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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

I prefer to use $0.60 per mile to give me a bit of wiggle room.

$0.60 * 300 mile round trip = $180 in trip expenses.

My time is worth a minimum of $25 per hour. Approximately 5 hour round trip = $125

$125 + $180 = $305

I wouldn’t even start my engine unless I was guaranteed a minimum $305 for the trip.

$381.25 before Uber cut.


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

UberMensch2015 said:


> Orlando rates are $0.13c a minute and $0.75c a mile.


Holy cow, I see that they are, didn't realize Orlando was giving out almost free rides. I change my stance, I would not take this one at those rates, I probably wouldn't be driving at those rates period. Our rates here aren't exactly high, but they're close to 50% higher than Orlando.


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

He posted this in the Orlando forum at 6:23pm and got basically told to take a hike. 
This is the typical rider that will 1 star you and NO tip!


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Dude should ride Amtrak. Or take Greyhound. Small chat gets boring after 15 minutes. Tolerable up to around 30 minutes. 45 minutes gets into quiet time. $32 on Amtrak and it takes 3 hours and 11 minutes. Uber to/from each train station and you're set. Biggest problem is that the calling times are early afternoon and mid evening Northbound.


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

TimFromMA said:


> I prefer to use $0.60 per mile to give me a bit of wiggle room.
> 
> $0.60 * 300 mile round trip = $180 in trip expenses.
> 
> ...


This is a sensible approach and good maths.


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## DieselkW (Jul 21, 2015)

Laughable.
If it actually costs sixty cents a mile to drive why would anyone be so abysmally STUPID as to turn on a partner app? *$0.75/mile minus 20% EQUALS sixty cents*. Not including the cost to get to the pax. Are you a driver? Are you that dumb? Are you actually buying into the 60 cents per mile cost; you're actually defending a calculation that proves you're an idiot to drive for Uber? You think your time is worth less than 10 cents a minute because you don't get paid for the time it takes to get to the pax, wait for the pax, and then drive the pax around for 60 cents per mile at a cost of 57.5 cents plus 10 cents a minute?

You either need a different car, or admit it doesn't actually cost 57 cents a mile to drive.
What's it going to be?


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

If you read my posts you'd see that I agree, anyone that drives for UberX rates is a moron. I only drive surges and UberSelect and keep my per mile income (net income, not gross) to 1.57 or more (I average 1.72 or so depending on volume). That includes paid and deadhead miles, FYI. I don't drive much, sometimes not for weeks, because the circumstances that present themselves to achieve profitability on my terms are rare. Eventually they will disappear altogether and then I'll stop driving entirely.

I also class out of self-employment SS tax so that increases my profitability. You have to know your numbers and I know mine cold so I NEVER take an unprofitable fare, that the game for me. If it means I drive one fare a week so be it. That's the only approach to Uber that works. Know you're required per mile net income and never accept a fare below it. That's why it can only be a marginal income for drivers, never a full time job, because it can't be done profitably at full time.

You can believe that your car does not cost $0.575 a mile to operate in 2015 (or roughly thereabouts) but that doesn't make it true. The rate is set that way because its an accurate reflection of true cost, not a reflection of your fantasies.


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

Here's a dated but still valid argument from AAA that places it at 75 cents:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tombarlow/2011/04/25/your-cost-to-drive-is-higher-than-you-think/

Bottom line: You still are conflating what you want, which is for UberX at non-surge to EVER be profitable with what is reality, which is that UberX on non-surge is NEVER profitable when all costs are considered (since the rates dropped below around 1.35 per mile or so).

If you drive UberX anywhere ever on non-surge you are losing money in the United States today.


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## CommanderXL (Jun 17, 2015)

TimFromMA said:


> I prefer to use $0.60 per mile to give me a bit of wiggle room.
> 
> $0.60 * 300 mile round trip = $180 in trip expenses.
> 
> ...


Yes, Amtrak is definitely the way to go or just rent a car. I don't think it's economical for many reasons.

But I find this interesting. Someone posted above that the one-way fare would be $133. But what if it were round trip, and the fare was doubled to $265 gross. All paid time and paid miles for 5 hours straight. This should be the very best that you could do in 5 hours with no dead miles or dead time. Only a surge would get you more.

You're saying that you wouldn't/couldn't do it for less than $305, and I don't disagree with that because your numbers add up.

I guess that shows the rates there are just far too low and even working with no dead miles or time for 5 full hours, it's a losing proposition unless there's a significant surge, and maybe even then. Smh


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

CommanderXL said:


> Yes, Amtrak is definitely the way to go or just rent a car. I don't think it's economical for many reasons.
> 
> But I find this interesting. Someone posted above that the one-way fare would be $133. But what if it were round trip, and the fare was doubled to $265 gross. All paid time and paid miles for 3 hours straight. This should be the very best that you could do in 3 hours with no dead miles or dead time. Only a surge would get you more.
> 
> ...


Now you're getting it. and yes, the return trip with a Pax would make this look much better, maybe even a good deal at an elevated per mile rate from Orlando's insultingly low rate. But this is similar to the classic Uber problem, you can only reduce dead head miles so much, if you take a pax from the bar to the burbs you are not going to get an immediate return fare from his neighbor back to the bar. you will have some dead head miles. Here, you will have zero percent chance of randomly getting a Jax passenger that says "take me to Orlando's airport, stat!" You're going to deadhead it all the way back.

I'm glad you're thinking critically about the math. So many people don't want to because they believe that since a lot of people do something it must be a good idea. Its not. Friends don't let friends drive for UberX without a surge.


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## CommanderXL (Jun 17, 2015)

Using someone else's math from above that concluded the net was $106.40 for the trip, doubling it to $212.80 for a round trip, 5 hours of pure paid time and miles, and deducting the other calculation of expenses at $180. I deduce that the best you could possibly hope for, driving 5 hours straight (which you know will never happen) is $32.80 net, or $6.56/hour.

Without a surge (and maybe even then), you're doing it right now! Less than $6.56/hour.

That's interesting. And scary.


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

CommanderXL said:


> Using someone else's math from above that concluded the net was $106.40 for the trip, doubling it to $212.80 for a round trip, 5 hours of pure paid time and miles, and deducting the other calculation of expenses at $180. I deduce that the best you could possibly hope for, driving 5 hours straight (which you know will never happen) is $32.80 net, or $6.56/hour.
> 
> Without a surge (and maybe even then), you're doing it right now! Less than $6.56/hour.
> 
> That's interesting. And scary.


agreed on both parts. Driving UberX with no deadhead miles nets you around minimum wage in optimal conditions. But you can't have no deadhead miles so you end up making less than minimum wage or, more likely, losing money.

I don't want to discourage people I just want them to understand that UBERX is NOT A JOB. A job gives you money you didn't have in exchange for work. UberX is a way to turn your cars value into a cash flow. It doesn't net you anything, it simply accelerates your cars depreciation and lets you access the cash value of what you would eventually sell it for (or scrap it for, eventually), into cash today.


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## TimFromMA (Mar 4, 2015)

The federal minimum wage id $7.25 per hour which means that ANY other job will be a step up in the pay scale. Flip burgers, pump gas, sweep floors, stock shelves, scrub toilets, walk dogs.....ALL these jobs would be a promotion.


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## DieselkW (Jul 21, 2015)

If you're going to insist on the IRS calculated cost to drive a mile, and you're driving only surges or select because that's the only way to profit at 57 cents a mile, then I'm glad you're not driving more than an hour a week, someone else is taking your fares.

A realistic calculation of cost to drive can be found here: http://artofbeingcheap.com/calculator/

Plugging in my particular circumstances, I drive for 17 cents a mile. Including insurance, cost of the car, fuel, oil, tires, regular maintenance, etc. for the life of the car. Fuel costs me 5.6 cents per mile, average over a tank. I make money driving. If I didn't, I would get a real job. I have fun, I find something interesting in every passenger. I wouldn't mind more tips, but that's Uber, not pax.

Since I can deduct on my earnings 57 cents per mile, that's a net difference of 40 cents per mile between cost and what IRS allows me to deduct.

I would not even think about driving if my actual costs were even close to IRS deduction levels.


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## JayJay108 (Sep 14, 2015)

Thank you everyone for taking an interest in this topic. I did in fact get that ride this morning. The guy was really cool and actually told me he looked forward to see what a trip like that would be like. We agreed on a good enough tip and that was that. This will probably be my only Uber ride since I was actually headed to Jacksonville to pick up my car. But it was a good one.

Also, if some of you are getting an actual paycheck providing this service, you shouldn't complain about it so much. Just don't give rides you don't wanna give. Seems simple enough.

Uber (and one of its drivers) made me a happy customer. It was a last minute thing that worked out, I saved some money, and I met a really nice guy along the way. Oh, and I gave him his 5 stars OrlUberOffDriver 



OrlUberOffDriver said:


> He posted this in the Orlando forum at 6:23pm and got basically told to take a hike.
> This is the typical rider that will 1 star you and NO tip!


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Would you mind sharing what kind of car it was and what your final fare was?

I see $30-40,000 cars driving UberX around her all.the.time! I don't get it. It makes clean comfortable (even almost profitable) cars like my little Ion look 3*-ish.

"Last time I was in some sort of Mercedes!" or a Cadillac. Or a Lexus. Or a BMW...

My car can't really depreciate much more, and with proper maintenance will last a while.


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## Dan Dixon (Jul 10, 2015)

JayJay108 said:


> Thank you everyone for taking an interest in this topic. I did in fact get that ride this morning. The guy was really cool and actually told me he looked forward to see what a trip like that would be like. We agreed on a good enough tip and that was that. This will probably be my only Uber ride since I was actually headed to Jacksonville to pick up my car. But it was a good one.
> 
> Also, if some of you are getting an actual paycheck providing this service, you shouldn't complain about it so much. Just don't give rides you don't wanna give. Seems simple enough.
> 
> Uber (and one of its drivers) made me a happy customer. It was a last minute thing that worked out, I saved some money, and I met a really nice guy along the way. Oh, and I gave him his 5 stars OrlUberOffDriver


Glad to hear things worked out for you, and I am happy that you realized the cost of this for the driver, and compensated him fairly. Our rates in Charlotte are not much better, but given the problems Uber is having in Florida, I would think they would do better than $0.75/mile. No way I would take the legal chances our drivers are dealing with there.


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## JayJay108 (Sep 14, 2015)

JimS said:


> Would you mind sharing what kind of car it was and what your final fare was?
> 
> I see $30-40,000 cars driving UberX around her all.the.time! I don't get it. It makes clean comfortable (even almost profitable) cars like my little Ion look 3*-ish.
> 
> ...


It was a Hyundai Accent and Uber charged me $139.98


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## JimS (Aug 18, 2015)

Thanks for the data points. Glad you enjoyed your ride!


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## UberMensch2015 (Jan 29, 2015)

I'm glad you got your ride and realized that a tip was in order. Hopefully it was sufficient to cover his real costs. Unless you offered the tip he most likely would have taken you anyway, lost money at time on the ride due to the deadhead problem, and thanked you in the process. 

Make sure you tell your friends what you learned here about Uber drivers losing money on most rides and encourage them to tip to offset the issue. The one unknown variable in all this analysis is the tip, make it large enough (15% or so) on most rides and you can make UberX at least break-even, if not slightly profitable.


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## OrlUberOffDriver (Oct 27, 2014)

JayJay108 said:


> Oh, and I gave him his 5 stars OrlUberOffDriver


Yeah sure! "trust, but verify" post a snapshot of uber receipt.


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## Gigster (May 31, 2016)

Uber tells riders there can be charge for return trips, but there doesn't seem to be a way to ask for it, much less get it. 
REFERENCE: Near the end of Uber's rider help article 776390a5-b197-412a-98c4-011c85799dc1 it says "You may also pay an ADDITIONAL CHARGE to your driver for other costs or inconveniences, such as a parking fee to enter a venue or A LONG RETURN TRIP after arrival at your final destination."


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Gretzky said:


> I don't think you'll have any trouble getting a driver for this! Too bad you're not in SoCal  Seriously though, no driver in their right mind would turn this ride down!!!


I would almost certainly turn it down. 150 miles, for, what rate? Any reasonable chance of a return fare? Most likely not. That means it's a 300-mile ride for half whatever the local rate is. If local rate is $1/mile, you're grossing about $0.40/mile. In other words, you are losing money.


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## Blackcab (Dec 3, 2016)

UberMensch2015 said:


> This is the perfect thread that shows the difference between uber drivers that know how to do this and don't. This is a TERRIBLE ride. TERRIBLE.
> 
> Orlando rates are $0.13c a minute and $0.75c a mile. The ride is 150 miles (I live in Houston so I'm using someone else's estimate). It sounds like its mostly highway so I'm going to assume an MPH of 60 (some morning traffic needs to be accounted for.
> 
> ...


You not only proved that trip is a money looser you proved driving for uber is a money looser.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

If you really want to stir things up, have the driver puck you up at a Wal-Mart, grocery store, or veterinary clinic.

Since some members of this forum advocate refusing trips from those places, it would serve them right to be hoist on their own petard.


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## flexian (Aug 16, 2016)

u could have gotten a round-trip flight for ~$250, assuming u didn't have a big bunch of bags or a dog or whatever.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Zombie thread guys why even post if over a year dead


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## UberAnt39 (Jun 1, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> If you really want to stir things up, have the driver puck you up at a Wal-Mart, grocery store, or veterinary clinic.
> 
> Since some members of this forum advocate refusing trips from those places, it would serve them right to be hoist on their own petard.


Hoist by his own petard, like when your boss Travis gets in trouble for responding to a driver with the same arrogance & aggression that got him where he is today.


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## Adam-St (Feb 14, 2017)

Everybodies situation is different. It doesn't make you a moron if you can do Uber for 15-20 hours a week and pick up an extra $250-300
I'm in the lucky situation that i do all my mechanicals myself and i drive an 08 Hyundai Accent thats phenominal on gas. 
What DOES make someone a moron is driving over 10 minutes to go get someone, taking requests from bad areas, and not politely declining rides that will require you to dead-head back a long distance


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## EX_ (Jan 31, 2016)

DieselkW said:


> The good news is he can deduct on his taxes for this ride, 57 and a half cents per mile although it will only cost about ten cents a mile.


Hope you're tracking your expenses better because it's actually 53.5 cents/mile for 2017, so deductions will be noticeably less in total. Last year was 54 cents/mile btw.


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## DieselkW (Jul 21, 2015)

EX_ said:


> Hope you're tracking your expenses better because it's actually 53.5 cents/mile for 2017, so deductions will be noticeably less in total. Last year was 54 cents/mile btw.


Did you look at when that was posted? https://www.irs.gov/tax-professionals/standard-mileage-rates


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## EX_ (Jan 31, 2016)

DieselkW said:


> Did you look at when that was posted? https://www.irs.gov/tax-professionals/standard-mileage-rates


Yeah, did you?


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## bad089 (Mar 7, 2017)

EX_ said:


> Yeah, did you?


He's still living in 2015, leave him alone!


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