# Major Change In Surge Pricing



## RussellP

This is reportedly live in the North Carolina market, possibly more.

From the sounds of it... it sounds terrible for drivers.

Discuss!


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## RussellP

Ok, so I'm kinda suprised no one else has any thoughts about this yet? 

So if you used to get a 3x surge ride that went like 30 miles you used to get like $90 or so... but on this new system you earn a flat dollar amount regardless of the length of the trip... so in other words... you make the same amount whether you drive 2 miles or 20... ? Seems they are hiding that under the guise of "Simpler to understand"... Well Uber, I never really had a problem understanding the surge before, and I kinda liked it. Now all the drivers will be flocking to the high paying spots and butting heads way more than they do now.... The one good thing is my acceptance rate should finally be back to "normal" since I wont be logging in unless I'm inside a surge zone...


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## Bpr2

Yeah sounds like they’re trying to avoid the “but I didn’t approve this amount before the ride” cry babies. They’ll probably be notified with a “This ride is in a high demand area… an extra $$ will be added for this trip”


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## Dredrummond

Bpr2 said:


> Yeah sounds like they're trying to avoid the "but I didn't approve this amount before the ride" cry babies. They'll probably be notified with a "This ride is in a high demand area&#8230; an extra $$ will be added for this trip"


They already see that now though


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## DeplorableDonald

This is Deplorable if true. It's a giant money grab combined with Upfront Pricing and also takes the incentive away from doing large events.


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## RussellP

Its gonna be really bad. No more long surge rides that pay mad cash ( Why would I ever want to take a long ride? if I can get the same bonus for a 2 mile trip as i do a 20? This is going to cause massive destination descrimination


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## Bpr2

Dredrummond said:


> They already see that now though


Not the exact amount though. Why do you think there are so many "but this wasn't the amount I agreed to; not the amount shown when I requested a ride" complaints after many surge rides?


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## ReyesMX6

Where did you see this page? An email? The app? I’m not seeing it anywhere and I would like to read the entire announcement myself.


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## Bpr2

ReyesMX6 said:


> Where did you see this page? An email? The app? I'm not seeing it anywhere and I would like to read the entire announcement myself.


It's being tested in North Carolina at the moment. Not all markets have it implemented. Hence why you don't see it.


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## ReyesMX6

Bpr2 said:


> It's being tested in North Carolina at the moment. Not all markets have it implemented. Hence why you don't see it.


I live in North Carolina. Im asking the OP to understand if it is certain drivers or markets in the state. Did only select people receive the notice?


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## surlywynch

Look in the Charlotte forum. There is a post about it there. I have not seen this in RDU


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## Chadpro

It's here and it SUCKS! You do make out if it is short rides. But you get screwed on long rides. The real kicker is that the rider still pays based on the old surge method, not a flat rate. I checked it out last night during the bar closing surge. When I saw the surge start I opened the rider app to see what they had to pay in that area. The surge on the heat map was $5 and riders were paying 1.7x. The highest it went to was $18 and riders paying 3.0x. The riders surge increased much faster than drivers.


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## unPat

They already did that here. 1.8x surge starts at 2:00 and ends right at 3:00. More moneygrab scheme from uber.


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## DocT

It's upsetting drivers everywhere. Real fare examples already posted in the threads.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/anyone-got-this-new-surge-bs.217172/
https://uberpeople.net/threads/beware-new-surge-format-is-a-screw-you-to-drivers.217401/


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## June132017

They really needed to make it easier to understand how much surge pay you get.


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## Mista T

About 6 months ago I was part of a paid marketing study in my market put on by Uber. There were two massive changes that Uber was considering that were discussed with drivers.

One was this idea called Upfront Pricing.

The other idea didn't have a name but was basically Socialized Surge Payments.

Uber's side is that drivers complain about (example) driving into a 4x surge and get nothing or get a 1.4x then they are pissed. Solution? Instead of a few drivers "winning" the surge lottery, what if the surge was split fairly amongst everyone who was in the area when surge hit? Drivers get some bonus money on their next ride no matter when it occurs, as a way of saying thanks for being available.

The downsides, as I see it, are 1. No more 4x surge payments, ever, and 2. No accountability for Uber. They can pay as much or as little as they want and we have NO way to know if we are getting our fair share.

Prediction: this will be marketed to drivers as a 180 Days benefit very soon.


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## pvtandrewmalone

If I put the time and effort into driving somewhere a 4X surge happens, then I want a 4X surge ride. I'll settle for a 3.5X in that situation, but a $10 or even $20 bonus payment is a total insult.

This may be good for ants who take every request anyway, but for those who are selective because they know all the expenses involved, I repeat this is an insult.

Often places with big surges involve some combination of dead miles, bad weather, late night hours, bad traffic, exposure to vulture cops, and drunken riders. Not worth it for an extra $10-20.



Mista T said:


> what if the surge was split fairly amongst everyone who was in the area when surge hit?


Absolutely horrible idea. So when I spend an hour babysitting six grown children on a 50 mile trip at 2AM with 3 vomit stops, it's fair that I should get base rate +$10, meanwhile an ant who does 3 shorties in the bar zone gets 3X the bonus out of the money my customers paid to middleman Uber on my behalf. Plus no tip because the paxs still think I'm getting 75% or 80% of everything they pay.

Sounds like it meets the "independent contractor" test to me.


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## kdyrpr

The vast majority of surge rides are short, simply because the rider is willing to pay an extra 3 -5 bucks to get where they want to go. The long surge rides usually take place after bar closing. Passengers are a little drunk, and especially female passengers who just want to get hell home. I don't see where it is going to be that much different than what is already happening. The long ride will still be profitable because of the distance. Throw in the extra fee for "surge" and that still isn't bad.


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## pvtandrewmalone

kdyrpr said:


> The vast majority of surge rides are short, simply because the rider is willing to pay an extra 3 -5 bucks to get where they want to go. The long surge rides usually take place after bar closing. Passengers are a little drunk, and especially female passengers who just want to get hell home. I don't see where it is going to be that much different than what is already happening. The long ride will still be profitable because of the distance. Throw in the extra fee for "surge" and that still isn't bad.


Have you ever worked XL at bar close in Asbury? Have you ever done early morning airport runs out of the Princeton area?

If so, you would know this is very likely a 50-75% pay cut on your most profitable rides...the ones where a single trip can net you three figures.


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## kdyrpr

pvtandrewmalone said:


> Have you ever worked XL at bar close in Asbury? Have you ever done early morning airport runs out of Princeton? If so, you would know this is very likely a 50-75% pay cut on your most profitable rides...the ones where a single trip can net you three figures.


Of course the answer to your questions is no. I should of qualified my comment by saying that in the market I drive (central CT) the surge scenarios are as I mentioned.


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## Failed Login

Live in Charlotte and just went online at 4am this morning to do my normal Monday routine of taking someone from the burbs to the airport as I head to my flight. Flight wasn't until 8 so had some extra time so drove into downtown to take another rider or two back to airport before I needed to park. Do this when I have flights later than my normal 6am flight. Dropped the first passenger off and downtown was flowing orange and red. Zoomed in to see $ amounts from $6-$12, no surge percentages. Odd... Pulled out of departures area and immediately got a ride opportunity. The screen showed the location and actually showed the surge colors on the location map during the pinging (included the different levels of shading so that I could see which color of rad she was in). I don't remember seeing that before. Drove over and picked the lady up and drove her downtown to her office. As soon as I started her trip, another opportunity pinged with all kinds of numbers in the ping box, couldn't see them all, but was 10 minutes away, and she was going 8, so I knew it was close and accepted it. Bear in mind, I haven't seen the map for 6-8 minutes since pulling out from airport. Drop lady off, pick up new rider and delivered to airport. Looked at map after ending trip and downtown still surging. Cut off my app so I could park and head in the airport. Got in and reviewed my history for the 3 rides and noticed the second 2 (that both were accepted with surge amounts) had no surge earnings listed and my portions were exactly what the normal amount I would normally receive were. One was minimum $3 and the last was $6.90. Very normal cost for non-surge. I opened the "Fare Details" for each and noticed the customers paid $19 and $29, respectively. No mention of surge anywhere. Uber collected large surge amounts and total fees of $49 while I received <$10. I've emailed Uber about this, but no response yet. Those 2 rides usually cost the rider $5 and $11-$12, respectively. Odd thing is, there is not mention of surge anywhere in the Fare Details, none. Barring some glitch, this new surge method is going to rape us, plain and simple. They can't argue I didn't pick up another rider after the surge in order to make the money, because I did pick one up after the first surge passenger. Even if that is a requirement to receive a surge, what sense does that make? I only do this here and there when I'm heading in a direction and there's few/no drivers out but fleecing the rider and not sharing the rewards is flat out wrong. This will greatly harm folks that do this full time and depend on it. Why accept a rider that XX minutes or XX miles away due to a posted $2 increase on the ride, when an area is surging and you know there will be higher priced rides closer to you?

Another odd item worth noting... I went online and drove Sat night from 10:30pm until 2:20am downtown Charlotte most of the night and received not one surge fare/opportunity. That was the first time that's ever happened. Coincidence?


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## DocT

Failed Login do you have any screenshots of the incoming ping request with the surge price addition? If you do, you can submit that to Uber to request the fair adjustment in your favor.


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## Failed Login

My phone is restricted from capturing screenshots as it's company issued, unfortunately. But I did send all the trip info to Uber in the message I submitted within the Help function this morning. I will update post once I receive a reply.


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## Xris Xros

Failed Login said:


> My phone is restricted from capturing screenshots as it's company issued, unfortunately. But I did send all the trip info to Uber in the message I submitted within the Help function this morning. I will update post once I receive a reply.


?? Take a picture of your fare details online.


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## Chamby11

I was driving home tonight offline and entered surge near my home so I went online and accepted a 1.8 surge. After drop off I checked my fare and it was only $7.66 for 22min and 7.92mi and didn't include the Surge amount. I immediately opened the fair details and saw an "adjustment" to the rider for $10.01. I emailed Uber and they gave me their standard response of no surge in the area. I disagreed. They then asked me to send the trip details which I did but when I opened the fair details again, you could no longer see the "adjustment". They hid it. Hmmm. 
P.S. .... Trying not to be a Newbie Ant


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## Failed Login

When I get the trip detail to open on my work PC here, I'll do a screen print and post. Stuck on "Loading Trip" the entire time I'm writing this post (trying to post a photo to show I'm not crazy...).

But here are the details per a trip I did at the end of Monday Night football last night. I partly figured out the new method and a strategy we must use to profit. If we don't, Uber will rape us on our take of the fares. I had just dropped another rider at home from leaving the game and got 2 consecutive requests that were at the stadium (which was glowing red and showing surge amounts anywhere from $22 to $38 in a range of a few blocks. Both of these riders cancelled within 5 seconds of me accepting. Then I accepted a 3rd. Note, these were hitting so fast the "Rider Cancelled" box at the bottom of my screen was still on the screen and blocking me from accepting for a few seconds. Go pick up third rider outside the stadium in the $38 zone but that's irrelevant, my car was in a $3.25 zone when I accepted the ride in a neighborhood 5 miles away. So the rider paid $58 and I got $18.xx ($3.25 surge bonus). Talk about bending over and taking one.... I now know, I should have kept declining the rides until I reached the $38 zone and then accepted. Thinking about it, if we as drivers had figured this out and several of us declined until we actually got up to that zone, the surge would have no doubt been much, much higher. But now I know.... Surge amount for us drivers makes no difference where the passenger is, it only matters where you are when you accept. That's why my 2 trips yesterday morning were deep in surge fares but when I accepted, I was outside said areas, even though under 8 and 5 minutes away for both. But the rider pays the surge anyway, we may get a price of it, we may get none of it. it's a win/win for Uber. Worst case they get the amount that would have received during a surge the old way, best case, they keep the entire surge premium paid by the rider. I don't Uber much, mainly Monday mornings to the airport, a few late night Saturdays and when there is a big event. It's decent $ for my kid's college fund. But why would I sacrifice and go out for a big event if there is no real reward for it and if I'm just putting money in their pocket...

You Receive
Base Fare $0.83
Distance (19.08 mi x $0.6075/mi) $11.59
Time (27.05 min x $0.1125/min) $3.04
Surge $3.25
*Total $18.71*

Rider Pays
Rider Price $57.99
*Rider Payment $57.99*

Uber Receives
Service Fee $36.88
Booking Fee $2.40
*Total $39.28*


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## jaystonepk

Failed Login said:


> You Receive
> Base Fare $0.83
> Distance (19.08 mi x $0.6075/mi) $11.59
> Time (27.05 min x $0.1125/min) $3.04
> Surge $3.25
> *Total $18.71*
> 
> Rider Pays
> Rider Price $57.99
> *Rider Payment $57.99*
> 
> Uber Receives
> Service Fee $36.88
> Booking Fee $2.40
> *Total $39.28*


That's a load of steaming horse shit!


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## civicdudeT22

Bpr2 said:


> They'll probably be notified with a "This ride is in a high demand area&#8230; an extra $$ will be added for this trip"


More like an extra charge will be added as a TIP so no tip to the driver is neccessary


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## Bpr2

civicdudeT22 said:


> More like an extra charge will be added as a TIP so no tip to the driver is neccessary


Don't give *them* any ideas.


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## bpm45

Socialize surge? Another bright idea about implementing "fairness" and completely destroying individual initiative? I wonder what other factors are going into their concept of socialization already? We've often wondered about how requests are assigned to drivers. Are they allocating ride requests to drivers based on factors other than proximity? Are they attempting to balance out revenue/earnings among drivers across the various social factors?

I realize that customers complain when they pay a normal amount to get to an event but then feel raped trying to get home when everyone is trying to get home at the same time.

From the evidence some here have provided it's clear that the socialization only extends to driver earnings and not to the amount Riders pay. Why wouldn't they socialize that? Wouldn't that pay better benefits to them in the marketplace? Wouldn't all those Millennials that depend on Uber find that to be a socially redeeming goal? I suspect that even the millennials wouldn't want to feel that customers in the middle of a high-demand area are getting a free ride on them in terms of a reduced fare over the normal surge.


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## hulksmash

bpm45 said:


> Socialize surge? Another bright idea about implementing "fairness" and completely destroying individual initiative? I wonder what other factors are going into their concept of socialization already? We've often wondered about how requests are assigned to drivers. Are they allocating ride requests to drivers based on factors other than proximity? Are they attempting to balance out revenue/earnings among drivers across the various social factors?
> 
> I realize that customers complain when they pay a normal amount to get to an event but then feel raped trying to get home when everyone is trying to get home at the same time.
> 
> From the evidence some here have provided it's clear that the socialization only extends to driver earnings and not to the amount Riders pay. Why wouldn't they socialize that? Wouldn't that pay better benefits to them in the marketplace? Wouldn't all those Millennials that depend on Uber find that to be a socially redeeming goal? I suspect that even the millennials wouldn't want to feel that customers in the middle of a high-demand area are getting a free ride on them in terms of a reduced fare over the normal surge.


They do sort of socialize rider fares when they implement boost zones (driver paid surge while riders pay base fare)



Failed Login said:


> When I get the trip detail to open on my work PC here, I'll do a screen print and post. Stuck on "Loading Trip" the entire time I'm writing this post (trying to post a photo to show I'm not crazy...).
> 
> But here are the details per a trip I did at the end of Monday Night football last night. I partly figured out the new method and a strategy we must use to profit. If we don't, Uber will rape us on our take of the fares. I had just dropped another rider at home from leaving the game and got 2 consecutive requests that were at the stadium (which was glowing red and showing surge amounts anywhere from $22 to $38 in a range of a few blocks. Both of these riders cancelled within 5 seconds of me accepting. Then I accepted a 3rd. Note, these were hitting so fast the "Rider Cancelled" box at the bottom of my screen was still on the screen and blocking me from accepting for a few seconds. Go pick up third rider outside the stadium in the $38 zone but that's irrelevant, my car was in a $3.25 zone when I accepted the ride in a neighborhood 5 miles away. So the rider paid $58 and I got $18.xx ($3.25 surge bonus). Talk about bending over and taking one.... I now know, I should have kept declining the rides until I reached the $38 zone and then accepted. Thinking about it, if we as drivers had figured this out and several of us declined until we actually got up to that zone, the surge would have no doubt been much, much higher. But now I know.... Surge amount for us drivers makes no difference where the passenger is, it only matters where you are when you accept. That's why my 2 trips yesterday morning were deep in surge fares but when I accepted, I was outside said areas, even though under 8 and 5 minutes away for both. But the rider pays the surge anyway, we may get a price of it, we may get none of it. it's a win/win for Uber. Worst case they get the amount that would have received during a surge the old way, best case, they keep the entire surge premium paid by the rider. I don't Uber much, mainly Monday mornings to the airport, a few late night Saturdays and when there is a big event. It's decent $ for my kid's college fund. But why would I sacrifice and go out for a big event if there is no real reward for it and if I'm just putting money in their pocket...
> 
> You Receive
> Base Fare $0.83
> Distance (19.08 mi x $0.6075/mi) $11.59
> Time (27.05 min x $0.1125/min) $3.04
> Surge $3.25
> *Total $18.71*
> 
> Rider Pays
> Rider Price $57.99
> *Rider Payment $57.99*
> 
> Uber Receives
> Service Fee $36.88
> Booking Fee $2.40
> *Total $39.28*


Partly this is in response to the problem of getting far away base fare pickups while sitting in a surge. This helps compensate the driver so those riders on the outskirts of surge don't get ignored. On the flip side if you a request from a surge area and you are 15 min away sitting in a non surge area you will get base fare while the rider pays surge. Basically it's to entice you to chase the surge since many drivers stopped doing it knowing it would disappear by the time you got there. They need to do it like Lyft Power zones, where you get the surge as long as either the driver or the rider is in the zone


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## cratter

Flat rate surge now. Just like time and distance for drivers.
Uber keeps asking where can they make more money and they see themselves giving away millions in surge pricing that they know they could keep.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

Uber keeps inventing new ways to rip off their drivers...

obviously things won't be changing for the better,


I've pnly EVER seen orlando get a 4c pay increase with multiple 20c+ cuts


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## Steven Ambrose

One has to ponder..... how will this impact New Year's Eve? Riders will be angry over the higher ride prices and they will think the drivers are benefiting off that night, when they are really not. I guess the surges attached will be a thing of the past.


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## Sueuber

here is the snapshot of the NEW SURGE...I am just reposting it from somebody else post. It "SUCKS big time."


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## cratter

Noticed the surge multiplier numbers tonight were behind the red...barely noticeable...almost blended in perfectly with the background....You have to prepare the ants for what's coming...

Just red...no more multiplier is next?


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## Buddywannarideagain

Yes. And that’s $1.50 for the entire ride. But some rides might be $5, $7 etc. ok for short rides. Crap for long ones.


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## Steven Ambrose

Sueuber said:


> here is the snapshot of the NEW SURGE...I am just reposting it from somebody else post. It "SUCKS big time."


Are we sure this is not the per mile rates? As opposed to 1.3x, 1.5x, 1.8x, etc.....


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## Buddywannarideagain

Steven Ambrose said:


> Are we sure this is not the per mile rates? As opposed to 1.3x, 1.5x, 1.8x, etc.....


No. I worked all weekend in Charlotte. It's a per ride amount. Now, I have to say, it's actually not that horrible. Here's a few facts:

-The surge area lasts like forever 
-There are more surges than before 
-You must be in the surge zone to get extra dollars
-You cannot be called into the surge zone and make surge dollars
-Once you're in the surge zone you locked in extra dollars on your next ride - no matter where it is as long as you stay online
-Surge amounts can go "high" like an extra $11 or even $22 
-even if the ride is like 3 blocks, you get the whole extra payout
-But if the ride is 50 miles you still only get the extra dollars 
-Uber charges boatloads for rides now. But with surge lasting longer and bigger dollars on short rides it may be ok.

The best strategy is to stay offline until you get into the surge area. And cancel long rides. Just tell the pax you have diarrhea and can't drive that far. Then take the short rides and bang the surge ride after ride.


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## cratter

Makes you have to keep working and not turn on Lyft.....brilliant!


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## pegasimotors

Buddywannarideagain said:


> No. I worked all weekend in Charlotte. It's a per ride amount. Now, I have to say, it's actually not that horrible. Here's a few facts:
> 
> -The surge area lasts like forever
> -There are more surges than before
> -You must be in the surge zone to get extra dollars
> -You cannot be called into the surge zone and make surge dollars
> -Once you're in the surge zone you locked in extra dollars on your next ride - no matter where it is as long as you stay online
> -Surge amounts can go "high" like an extra $11 or even $22
> -even if the ride is like 3 blocks, you get the whole extra payout
> -But if the ride is 50 miles you still only get the extra dollars
> -Uber charges boatloads for rides now. But with surge lasting longer and bigger dollars on short rides it may be ok.
> 
> The best strategy is to stay offline until you get into the surge area. And cancel long rides. Just tell the pax you have diarrhea and can't drive that far. Then take the short rides and bang the surge ride after ride.


Sounds pretty horrible to me...

So Uber stopped manipulating surge, then reintroduces surge with normal surging, and NOW we are to believe surge lasts longer and is more profitable? Nah... trix are for kids.


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## Buddywannarideagain

It’s waaaay more profitable for super short rides. Long rides ... better to cancel those. Make up something. Then get more short rides for the extra $5, $13, $20. Whatever it is.


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## hulksmash

Buddywannarideagain said:


> No. I worked all weekend in Charlotte. It's a per ride amount. Now, I have to say, it's actually not that horrible. Here's a few facts:
> 
> -The surge area lasts like forever
> -There are more surges than before
> -You must be in the surge zone to get extra dollars
> -You cannot be called into the surge zone and make surge dollars
> -Once you're in the surge zone you locked in extra dollars on your next ride - no matter where it is as long as you stay online
> -Surge amounts can go "high" like an extra $11 or even $22
> -even if the ride is like 3 blocks, you get the whole extra payout
> -But if the ride is 50 miles you still only get the extra dollars
> -Uber charges boatloads for rides now. But with surge lasting longer and bigger dollars on short rides it may be ok.
> 
> The best strategy is to stay offline until you get into the surge area. And cancel long rides. Just tell the pax you have diarrhea and can't drive that far. Then take the short rides and bang the surge ride after ride.


Interesting. I'm curious to know:
How do you lock in your rate? Do you have to drive to the hexagon with the highest amount and stay put? What happens when you leave a high surge square and move to a new one? Must be a lot of guys fighting for space in those squares

Are the long ride notifications still appearing?

Are the amounts the same for all vehicle classes?

You said the surges last longer? Do they last long with high $ amounts, or do the color and $ amount fluctuate up and down like they do now? Speaking of which, do you get the same surge if you are in an area with high amount and then the surge goes up or down?

What happens if you ignore pings from outside the surge zone or from light zones on the way to a high zone?

Appreciate the Info


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## Buddywannarideagain

hulksmash said:


> Interesting. I'm curious to know:
> How do you lock in your rate? Do you have to drive to the hexagon with the highest amount and stay put? What happens when you leave a high surge square and move to a new one? Must be a lot of guys fighting for space in those squares
> 
> Are the long ride notifications still appearing?
> 
> Are the amounts the same for all vehicle classes?
> 
> You said the surges last longer? Do they last long with high $ amounts, or do the color and $ amount fluctuate up and down like they do now? Speaking of which, do you get the same surge if you are in an area with high amount and then the surge goes up or down?
> 
> What happens if you ignore pings from outside the surge zone or from light zones on the way to a high zone?
> 
> Appreciate the Info


The surge is zero until you hit the first hexagon. But I stayed offline until I got closer to the center and then went online for the bigger money. When you're online and cross from one hexagon to the bigger dollar one, the Gps updates your surge. So, say, you go from $6.25 to $7.00, keep driving without a accepting a ride and cross to $8.00 etc. Once you have that surge amount locked in, you can drive outside of the surge and your next ride will add the $8.00. Also, if your next ride is a cancel no show, you get your $3.75 and the $8.00 comes back to you for the next ride. I will say it's surging like 10x more than it used to. In 15 hours driving this week I made $335 before expenses. That's better than before. Before I guess people waited till the surge went away. Now it sticks around for like 30 min to 2 hours.

Couple downsides:

If you're outside the surge zone and get a ride inside it, you get zero added. So don't go online until you're in the zone and are happy with your extra dollars.

Long surge rides are not as exciting as before. Now we want the short ones. Because the surge sticks around in the downtown area, say, it's possible again to do many short surge rides back to back.

Many surges are like $1-8 more. But some are $18-$23 that I've seen. My high so far was $14 extra on a short $4 ride. That's a great surge for a short ride.

Pax are paying a ton on surge. Same as before. Maybe more. I've heard them ***** about paying a lot. So there is a feeling a being ripped off. Uber is making a boatload.

I like the fact that when you see a surge, it's there long enough to get there and lock it in. You know your next ride should be decent - particularly if it's short.

Definitely ignore those non surge pings. Who would want those if your're close to a surge? It's the game we play. Uber goes offline after 3 ignores. Just put it back online when you want.

Drivers might drive fast to the inner surge to lock it in. I can see that happening.

The amounts fluctuate. But somewhat slowly. Like $20 down to $18. Etc etc.

Note to pax: please tip your drivers.

I'd be interested to hear what other Charlotte drivers have to say. I saw it surging like crazy for hours before the Clemson game on Sat 12/2.

We would never see this before at 3:15am on. Monday.


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## hulksmash

Buddywannarideagain said:


> The surge is zero until you hit the first hexagon. But I stayed offline until I got closer to the center and then went online for the bigger money. When you're online and cross from one hexagon to the bigger dollar one, the Gps updates your surge. So, say, you go from $6.25 to $7.00, keep driving without a accepting a ride and cross to $8.00 etc. Once you have that surge amount locked in, you can drive outside of the surge and your next ride will add the $8.00. Also, if your next ride is a cancel no show, you get your $3.75 and the $8.00 comes back to you for the next ride. I will say it's surging like 10x more than it used to. In 15 hours driving this week I made $335 before expenses. That's better than before. Before I guess people waited till the surge went away. Now it sticks around for like 30 min to 2 hours.
> 
> Couple downsides:
> 
> If you're outside the surge zone and get a ride inside it, you get zero added. So don't go online until you're in the zone and are happy with your extra dollars.
> 
> Long surge rides are not as exciting as before. Now we want the short ones. Because the surge sticks around in the downtown area, say, it's possible again to do many short surge rides back to back.
> 
> Many surges are like $1-8 more. But some are $18-$23 that I've seen. My high so far was $14 extra on a short $4 ride. That's a great surge for a short ride.
> 
> Pax are paying a ton on surge. Same as before. Maybe more. I've heard them ***** about paying a lot. So there is a feeling a being ripped off. Uber is making a boatload.
> 
> I like the fact that when you see a surge, it's there long enough to get there and lock it in. You know your next ride should be decent - particularly if it's short.
> 
> Definitely ignore those non surge pings. Who would want those if your're close to a surge? It's the game we play. Uber goes offline after 3 ignores. Just put it back online when you want.
> 
> Drivers might drive fast to the inner surge to lock it in. I can see that happening.
> 
> The amounts fluctuate. But somewhat slowly. Like $20 down to $18. Etc etc.
> 
> Note to pax: please tip your drivers.
> 
> I'd be interested to hear what other Charlotte drivers have to say. I saw it surging like crazy for hours before the Clemson game on Sat 12/2.
> 
> We would never see this before at 3:15am on. Monday.


I read that you couldn't see the surge offline. Is this not true? When you lock in the rate you want, do you have to stay put in the same hexagon until you get a request to get that rate? Or can you lock in and move about freely? I wonder if Uber is taking losses on those high surge short rides and making them up on the long ones. I can see that if you get $15 for a 1 mile ride and the same for a 50 mile ride.

Any info if the same rates apply to XL, select, etc? I bet pool would suck if you got extra riders that extended the distance.

I hope they don't bring this to LA. Mainly because I drive XL and it would suck getting the same rates as UberX, and because I would be forced to go all the way inside some of these event venues where I normally pick up on the outskirts just to get a higher rate.


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## Lando74

Sounds good in theory, to an extent. What's the point of XL without a surge multiplier? Might as well buy a cheap crappy X car and rack up short trips as much as possible. And with that strategy, Uber is now turning us into cab drivers not wanting to drive riders to suburbs or sit anywhere but downtown. No one will drive further than a hexagon to pick up a rider. In my opinion this will ultimately trash the Uber experience for riders.


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## pvtandrewmalone

Anyone try using the DF scheduled ride feature to filter out the long rides? As in....set a destination close to surge area, with an arrival time 15 minutes ahead. Keep moving the time up as needed. You won't get long rides that way, and as long as the screen stays blue, it doesn't use your allotment of filters. 

Guys in Hudson County, NJ use this to get the consecutive trip boost and avoid going into NYC.


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## Buddywannarideagain

hulksmash said:


> I read that you couldn't see the surge offline. Is this not true? When you lock in the rate you want, do you have to stay put in the same hexagon until you get a request to get that rate? Or can you lock in and move about freely? I wonder if Uber is taking losses on those high surge short rides and making them up on the long ones. I can see that if you get $15 for a 1 mile ride and the same for a 50 mile ride.
> 
> Any info if the same rates apply to XL, select, etc? I bet pool would suck if you got extra riders that extended the distance.
> 
> I hope they don't bring this to LA. Mainly because I drive XL and it would suck getting the same rates as UberX, and because I would be forced to go all the way inside some of these event venues where I normally pick up on the outskirts just to get a higher rate.


True you can't see the surge offline. However, that's a glitch they are working on. We should soon see it.


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## Buddywannarideagain

pvtandrewmalone said:


> Anyone try using the DF scheduled ride feature to filter out the long rides? As in....set a destination close to surge area, with an arrival time 15 minutes ahead. Keep moving the time up as needed. You won't get long rides that way, and as long as the screen stays blue, it doesn't use your allotment of filters.
> 
> Guys in Hudson County, NJ use this to get the consecutive trip boost and avoid going into NYC.


Hmmm. Might have to try that.


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## ibeam23

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/some-uber-drivers-cry-foul-over-new-pricing-policy/656456044

Please share this around. More pax need to know that if this policy change goes nationwide that less drivers will work the bars and pax pricing will go even higher. Share on FB, Twitter, etc. Let screwber know that if this policy hits our local market that we just won't drive weekend nights or during rush hour. Let the drunks drive themselves home.


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## DocT

ibeam23 said:


> http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/some-uber-drivers-cry-foul-over-new-pricing-policy/656456044
> 
> Please share this around. More pax need to know that if this policy change goes nationwide that less drivers will work the bars and pax pricing will go even higher. Share on FB, Twitter, etc. Let screwber know that if this policy hits our local market that we just won't drive weekend nights or during rush hour. Let the drunks drive themselves home.


_"We are testing changes to surge that are designed to make the experience more stable, simple and attainable for drivers. *This test is part of our broader effort to improve the earnings experience*," an Uber spokesperson said._

Uber failed to mention the earnings improvement is for Uber, NOT the drivers.  Their quote should not be implied as if it helps the drivers. Typical lawyerese language.


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## pvtandrewmalone

This little song sums up the "earnings experience" which Uber is improving. Filmed on-location at the EWR Uber lot.


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## JimKE

Buddywannarideagain said:


> The surge is zero until you hit the first hexagon. But I stayed offline until I got closer to the center and then went online for the bigger money. When you're online and cross from one hexagon to the bigger dollar one, the Gps updates your surge. So, say, you go from $6.25 to $7.00, keep driving without a accepting a ride and cross to $8.00 etc. Once you have that surge amount locked in, you can drive outside of the surge and your next ride will add the $8.00. Also, if your next ride is a cancel no show, you get your $3.75 and the $8.00 comes back to you for the next ride. I will say it's surging like 10x more than it used to. In 15 hours driving this week I made $335 before expenses. That's better than before. Before I guess people waited till the surge went away. Now it sticks around for like 30 min to 2 hours.
> 
> Couple downsides:
> 
> If you're outside the surge zone and get a ride inside it, you get zero added. So don't go online until you're in the zone and are happy with your extra dollars.
> 
> Long surge rides are not as exciting as before. Now we want the short ones. Because the surge sticks around in the downtown area, say, it's possible again to do many short surge rides back to back.
> 
> Many surges are like $1-8 more. But some are $18-$23 that I've seen. My high so far was $14 extra on a short $4 ride. That's a great surge for a short ride.
> 
> Pax are paying a ton on surge. Same as before. Maybe more. I've heard them ***** about paying a lot. So there is a feeling a being ripped off. Uber is making a boatload.
> 
> I like the fact that when you see a surge, it's there long enough to get there and lock it in. You know your next ride should be decent - particularly if it's short.
> 
> Definitely ignore those non surge pings. Who would want those if your're close to a surge? It's the game we play. Uber goes offline after 3 ignores. Just put it back online when you want.
> 
> Drivers might drive fast to the inner surge to lock it in. I can see that happening.
> 
> The amounts fluctuate. But somewhat slowly. Like $20 down to $18. Etc etc.
> 
> Note to pax: please tip your drivers.
> 
> I'd be interested to hear what other Charlotte drivers have to say. I saw it surging like crazy for hours before the Clemson game on Sat 12/2.
> 
> We would never see this before at 3:15am on. Monday.


How are you finding the surge amounts compare to the multipliers you formerly got?

And is Uber doing any Boost with the new surge system?


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## Buddywannarideagain

I haven’t see boost forever. The new surge is so weird. It’s supposed to last longer but I find it is pretty quick and seems to disappear if I don’t accept a non surge ride. So far I’m still skeptical about it.


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## JimKE

Buddywannarideagain said:


> I haven't see boost forever. The new surge is so weird. It's supposed to last longer but I find it is pretty quick and seems to disappear if I don't accept a non surge ride. So far I'm still skeptical about it.


The initial mechanics are obviously pretty fuzzy, but there can't be much doubt in anyone's mind what the *objective* is -- and it ain't a huge "180 Days of Change" benefit for drivers!

The objective is to charge riders as much as possible while paying drivers regular rates, or the least they will accept. If this is implemented, over time the surge amounts will get smaller and smaller. Those test market $18-$23 amounts (_seen_, but _not_ gotten) you mention above will become $6-$8 in the real world a few months later.


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## Mista T

JimKE said:


> If this is implemented,


If? It is here my brothers and sisters.

Uber is like any other business, they want to sell their goods and services at the highest price possible while paying the least amount they can to produce or offer it.

They just happen to be real idiots about how they go about doing it. If we were machines we would not complain about how much Uber "paid" to put us in service. But we are humans, roughly 2 million people driving worldwide. About 600-750k drivers in the US alone. Some of us speak up about the low pay. The ones that have quick access to a better paying gig or job just silently quit, which is why there is --> 96% <-- turnover annually on Uber.


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## JimKE

Mista T said:


> If? It is here my brothers and sisters.
> 
> Uber is like any other business, they want to sell their goods and services at the highest price possible while paying the least amount they can to produce or offer it.
> 
> They just happen to be real idiots about how they go about doing it. If we were machines we would not complain about how much Uber "paid" to put us in service. But we are humans, roughly 2 million people driving worldwide. About 600-750k drivers in the US alone. Some of us speak up about the low pay. The ones that have quick access to a better paying gig or job just silently quit, which is why there is --> 96% <-- turnover annually on Uber.


It's in testing in Charlotte, and Uber just sent the drivers there a questionnaire to get their feedback. All of the feedback I've seen from drivers actually using the system has been either they hate it, or don't trust it.

I don't think it's a given that they actually go with it. They often try stuff that doesn't work out -- like "dump your teenager on us" and the magical 6 DF's fiasco.


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## JayAre

JimKE said:


> It's in testing in Charlotte, and Uber just sent the drivers there a questionnaire to get their feedback. All of the feedback I've seen from drivers actually using the system has been either they hate it, or don't trust it.
> 
> I don't think it's a given that they actually go with it. They often try stuff that doesn't work out -- like "dump your teenager on us" and the magical 6 DF's fiasco.


Uber at its finest, I meant Screwber at its screwiest.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

I’d love to see it implemented.

Orlando is 1 rate cut from paying <$5.00 an hour.

Maybe this will get the driver churn high enough that Uber can’t keep enough cars on the road.


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## June132017

I hope they don't go through with this. On a YouTube video I watched they were throwing a maximum $2 to a driver. So you might get $1.25,$1.50,$1.75,$2.00. I know this will be a bad deal for the drivers. 

On the other hand... What if they gave us a 100% raise, but then implemented this crappy new surge idea. I guess I would be okay with that.


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## Failed Login

What's up with the Buddy guy saying in one post the surges last forever then a few posts later say they disappear fast? 

The truth, they are no different than before as far as lasting time. I timed one last weekend that lasted 90 seconds. Some more truths
- If you go offline, the surge remains visible but doesn't necessarily update. You can drive to the center, go back online, and it's completely gone.
- Surge zones start with $1 in the outermost edges. Think about that, $1 on a $20 fare. That's 1.05x. I asked customer service one night if he could find me a $1 surge on a drivers transaction anywhere in the country outside of Charlotte. 
- If you drive through a surge and pick up a fixed dollar, you must accept the next ride or you lose it. I've had rides 25+ minutes away that I declined and lost the surge.
- The amounts are far from what Buddy says. It's a very rare occurrence on a Saturday night at 2am when all bars close that surge reaches $10. Maybe in Lake Norman area, but nowhere else. They are often $1-$2.50.
- Uber still charges rider x multiplier like normal. I can often get the customer service person to tell me the multiplier they charged so that I can better understand what I've lost. I've had rides where I've made 25% of the fare paid by the rider.
- We lose out x2 on many rides as we all know riders are less often to tip on a high surge, so that means we lose out on tips even on trips where we made little or no surge amount.
- Going offline and driving to the center of a surge works sometimes, but if you aren't really close, you'll lose. happens every Saturday night I drive.
- Surges are not more frequent than they were before, period. This morning (Monday of a spring break week for all local schools), there was no surges anywhere in Charlotte from 3:45am until I had to park at the airport at 6:15am. I turned it on after security just to see, and saw one in Southend area, but it wasn't big. That's pitiful. Airport was slammed and no surge at those times.
- Uber does lose out on some rides, having negative numbers for their portion, but I can promise you this is less times and dollars than the driver loses out on. Unless the driver just chases surges all night and only gets a few of those random rides where they pick up a surge amount and quickly get out of the zone and accept a ride. Driver would be wasting a lot of time and fail many times at making it to a surge area.
- On long trips, you lose. Period. The average surge I've gotten since October driving every Saturday night 10pm-3am is $2.25 on rides where I got a surge. Do the math with an average ride of $8. Do you average 1.25 on your surge trips in total?
- A supervisor from customer service told me they are looking to roll this out nationwide in August. I call them at the end of my night every Sunday morning at 3am and escalate to a supervision to express my frustration with the system. 
- Uber moved the Green Light location out of Charlotte within 2 months of implementing this surge process. yet have them in numerous cities smaller than us. Cowards....

Had a girl call me 3 weeks ago and ask a few questions about the "New" surge process. I told her it wasn't new since we've had it for 6 months. Then proceeded to tell her my 3 full pages of feedback I'd documented, including calling them cowards for the last bullet point above. She told me she had plenty of time to talk when we started, then at the 45 minute mark she said she needed to go.

Beware guys and gals, it sounds like it's coming soon to a city near you. I've done all I can to try and stop it, but I have no idea what other drivers are telling them.


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## hulksmash

Mista T said:


> If? It is here my brothers and sisters.
> 
> Uber is like any other business, they want to sell their goods and services at the highest price possible while paying the least amount they can to produce or offer it.
> 
> They just happen to be real idiots about how they go about doing it. If we were machines we would not complain about how much Uber "paid" to put us in service. But we are humans, roughly 2 million people driving worldwide. About 600-750k drivers in the US alone. Some of us speak up about the low pay. The ones that have quick access to a better paying gig or job just silently quit, which is why there is --> 96% <-- turnover annually on Uber.


This is why they are pushing the self driving cars so much. Somehow they think they will eventually be able to profit more on those just because the cars won't cherrypick rides and won't complain about how much it costs to put them in service.


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## Aerodrifting

hulksmash said:


> This is why they are pushing the self driving cars so much. Somehow they think they will eventually be able to profit more on those just because the cars won't cherrypick rides and won't complain about how much it costs to put them in service.


SDC will probably cost less: The whole fleet will be purchased in large quantities, So there is going to be a big discount on the vehicles. Their maintenance can be done at a centralized hub by barely above minimum wage "mechanics" who are trained to fix SDC only. They most likely will be hybrids for the fuel economy. Most importantly, They will run 24/7 and never get tired. They will also only dispatch the number of cars needed on the street based on real time demand (Not like 8 ants in every downtown block), Saving the cost.

But for that day to come nation wide, My most optimistic guess is 5 years, Most likely 5-10 years in reality, By then I hope neither of us are still driving Uber.


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## hulksmash

Aerodrifting said:


> SDC will probably cost less: The whole fleet will be purchased in large quantities, So there is going to be a big discount on the vehicles. Their maintenance can be done at a centralized hub by barely above minimum wage "mechanics" who are trained to fix SDC only. They most likely will be hybrids for the fuel economy. Most importantly, They will run 24/7 and never get tired. They will also only dispatch the number of cars needed on the street based on real time demand (Not like 8 ants in every downtown block), Saving the cost.
> 
> But for that day to come nation wide, My most optimistic guess is 5 years, Most likely 5-10 years in reality, By then I hope neither of us are still driving Uber.


Do you think they will be able to operate these cars at and still profit on the .72c per mile and .11c a minute they would save by not paying us? The .11c a minute and then some will be redirected to just the minimum wage mechanics alone. The other .72c must go to gas, oil, brakes, tires, insurance, storage facilities, depreciation, software maintenance, replacement parts, car washes, etc. I don't see any room for profit there.

Fact is they have it easy now not owning any cars, and still can't make a profit. And they blame the expensive fares on having to pay the drivers. They will either go broke trying to keep fares super low or will have to raise them, in which case the drivers won't be to blame for expensive rides.


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## Failed Login

Huge news from Charlotte today that I wanted to tell you guys about, just FYI. You know we've been under this surge "experiment" since October 1, 2017. We received a note during the night that starting today, we, as drivers, will earn the higher of the surge amount from the rider's location and the surge amount in our bubble at the bottom of our map that shows the highest surge area you've driven through since your last rider. Not sure if you all had that bubble before but it came on as part of our experiment here with the fixed dollar surge vs x multiplier. What it means in this experiemental mode is, we no longer need to decline requests coming from a hot surge area when we are not physically in that area to avoid missing out on all surge. Now we will be back to the old way of keeping it, or receiving what we've collected in our bubble. This is very good news for us and helps lighten the blow from all the losses incurred from having the fixed dollar surge vs multiplier, as riders still pay multiplier so most rides we lost good money. 

Just wanted to pass along this update. This is the first tweak they've done since the inception of this pilot. I like to think the squeaky wheel helped obtain the grease...


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## DocT

Failed Login By any chance, did you take screen shots of this note to provide? This is indeed good news.


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## Uber_Yota_916

How many drivers will stop.driving because of this? Or will the numbers stay the same or grow?


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## Failed Login

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> How many drivers will stop.driving because of this? Or will the numbers stay the same or grow?


I continually told Uber that they would lose countless numbers of drivers if they rolled this "new" surge program out to the full US market, especially in the larger cities. Each week I asked them to provide me an overview of their metric for wait time from a rider selecting "confirm ride" until ride accepted, for Charlotte. They wouldn't do it. I felt that since I am a partner, as they address me, I should have access to at least view that as it is one of their more critical stats. I am of the opinion that folks will not run off now that they have updated to allow the higher of the 2 surges one might have, that is a much better option. You guys don't realize how many times you would get a ride request from a surge area while not being located in that area yourself. Think about it, it makes sense as surge is a high demand of riders and low supply of drivers in an area. So then if you accept, you get no surge and Uber gets it all.



DocT said:


> Failed Login By any chance, did you take screen shots of this note to provide? This is indeed good news.


I didn't and my phone won't screen shot due to being locked by company controls, but another good member posted the memo on our Charlotte city page here, so you can view it there.


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## HRD2UBER

RussellP said:


> View attachment 174511
> 
> 
> This is reportedly live in the North Carolina market, possibly more.
> 
> From the sounds of it... it sounds terrible for drivers.
> 
> Discuss!


Go Into learn more... if we get a surge ride we dont get it right away they give it to you if you take the next ride. So if you reject a call, cancel a ride, or turn app off you dont get the surge fare you lose it... didnt even think about the people who are handicap which we have a lot those in Arizona the retirement state. It's a shame these senior citizens have to drive to supplement their SSI... and these people can barely walk...


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## HRD2UBER

Bpr2 said:


> It's being tested in North Carolina at the moment. Not all markets have it implemented. Hence why you don't see it.


We got it in Phoenix...



RussellP said:


> View attachment 174511
> 
> 
> This is reportedly live in the North Carolina market, possibly more.
> 
> From the sounds of it... it sounds terrible for drivers.
> 
> Discuss!


It's in PHX I just decided not to take any ride surges. If I can help it. I hate but I have to use the Rest room many times. And when I got to go I got to go. So if I have a surge price waiting on me to be added to my next ride. I wont get it if I turn my app off...


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## Bpr2

HRD2UBER said:


> We got it in Phoenix...
> 
> It's in PHX I just decided not to take any ride surges. If I can help it. I hate but I have to use the Rest room many times. And when I got to go I got to go. So if I have a surge price waiting on me to be added to my next ride. I wont get it if I turn my app off...


At the time of my posting you didn't


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