# How Uber plans to put its own drivers out of business



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

*How Uber plans to put its own drivers out of business*
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...plans-to-put-its-own-drivers-out-of-business/
The Washington Post Aug 18 2016
By Abha Bhattarai

 

Uber spent years amassing an army of 1 million drivers around the world. Now it says it wants to "wean" customers off of those very drivers.

Beginning this month, the ride-sharing company will begin deploying self-driving cars - equipped with cameras, lasers and GPS systems - to pick up passengers in downtown Pittsburgh, Bloomberg Businessweek reports. The custom Volvo SUVs will offer free introductory rides and, at least for now, be supervised by engineers in the driver's seat.

The idea, the company says, is to eventually replace human drivers with automated systems. The fleet of 100 new vehicles, will come with tablets in the back seats to tell customers what's happening and to discourage them from interacting with their drivers.

"The goal is to wean us off of having drivers in the car, so we don't want the public talking to our safety drivers," Raffi Krikorian, Uber's engineering director, told Businessweek.

That could be a problem for the company's drivers, many of whom use the ride-sharing service to make ends meet.

Since its founding in San Francisco seven years ago, Uber has given rise to a new opportunity for independent contractors. But in recent months, the ride-sharing company has slashed fares and begun taking a larger portion of revenue from its drivers, amounting to less take-home pay for those behind the wheel.

Uber last year said its drivers make about $19 an hour - but by the time taxes, insurance costs, gas and car maintenance are factored in, that figure is whittled down to about $10.50 per hour, according to a Washington Post analysis.

But could Uber's driverless fleet also be bad for car companies? The company's chief executive says yes, according to Businessweek:

In the long run, [Travis] Kalanick says, prices will fall so low that the per-mile cost of travel, even for long trips in rural areas, will be cheaper in a driverless Uber than in a private car. "That could be seen as a threat," says Volvo Cars CEO Hakan Samuelsson. "We see it as an opportunity."


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Robots are scab labor.


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## JapanFour (Mar 8, 2016)

build your company on the back of joe working guy only to fire him and hire HAL.

how ****ed up is this?!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> *How Uber plans to put its own drivers out of business*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...plans-to-put-its-own-drivers-out-of-business/
> The Washington Post Aug 18 2016
> By Abha Bhattarai
> ...


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Robots are scab labor.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

JapanFour said:


> build your company on the back of joe working guy only to fire him and hire HAL.
> 
> how &%[email protected]!*ed up is this?!


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## Poolepit (May 17, 2016)

Is it just me that wonders if uber can't profit without a single vehicle or expense now, how are they ever going to profit with all their own vehicles and expenses even if they are keeping 100% of fares? Not to mention all the problems and issues that will arise with safety things that humans have to trouble shoot on the fly pertaining to pickups and drop offs.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Poolepit said:


> Is it just me that wonders if uber can't profit without a single vehicle or expense now, how are they ever going to profit with all their own vehicles and expenses even if they are keeping 100% of fares? Not to mention all the problems and issues that will arise with safety things that humans have to trouble shoot on the fly pertaining to pickups and drop offs.


What makes you think that Uber will own the vehicles?
I can envision individuals with one self-driving car - and corporations with hundreds - signing up their vehicles for rideshare.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Poolepit said:


> Is it just me that wonders if uber can't profit without a single vehicle or expense now, how are they ever going to profit with all their own vehicles and expenses even if they are keeping 100% of fares? Not to mention all the problems and issues that will arise with safety things that humans have to trouble shoot on the fly pertaining to pickups and drop offs.


Uber in its partnership with Volvo will hang all vehicle expenses on Volvo.
Watch this, let's pretend the partnership is 50/50 for the sake of argument.
Let's choose a $1 per mile market.
Driverless cars don't need breaks.
It's feasible to me that a robot cab even at rock bottom $1 per mile will gross $300 per 24 hours.
If Volvo gets half of that, that's $54,750 in just the first year.
That's what they expected to sell the car for, and they still own half of it.

By the way, by the time robot Uber cabs come along there will be no more $1 markets.
Uber will crank the price up sky high.
This is a big win from the car manufacturers perspective.


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## Poolepit (May 17, 2016)

This: 
In the long run, [Travis] Kalanick says, prices will fall so low that the per-mile cost of travel, even for long trips in rural areas, will be cheaper in a driverless Uber than in a private car. "That could be seen as a threat," says Volvo Cars CEO Hakan Samuelsson. "We see it as an opportunity."
Does not seem to correlate with this:
"by the time robot Uber cabs come along there will be no more $1 markets. Uber will crank the price up sky high."


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## JAnightrider (Jun 25, 2015)

Wow.Gonna be a lot of wasted money,it would be nice if Uber instead of wasting all that hard earned money that we drivers make for the company,just give us back a little.Three main reasons Self Driving Cars will not work.1; Security as in Hacking,2.Act Of God.like bad weather.3.Customers not feeling comfortable without a driver. Uber, just try and treat us like a real Partner,after two years and over 7300 rides. YES 7300 RIDES.in NJ i now reluctantly have to give Uber a break.When i did the numbers it wasn't make financial sense.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Robot cars and trucks will unemploy tens of millions globally.
Should bring about aassive depression.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Robot cars and trucks will unemploy tens of millions globally.
> Should bring about aassive depression.


I may have missed it in my history classes, but I don't recall reading that the introduction of the automobile,
_(which put a lot of livery drivers, blacksmiths, wagon-wheel companies and buggy-whip makers out of work)_
caused a "massive depression". In fact, the White Wagon Wheel Company, Sheboygan Falls, WI, is now Bemis Manufacturing Company - doing $300+mil/yr and employing over 2,000.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> *How Uber plans to put its own drivers out of business*
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...plans-to-put-its-own-drivers-out-of-business/
> The Washington Post Aug 18 2016
> By Abha Bhattarai
> ...


Basically what TNC drivers did to the taxi and livery drivers, robots are going to do to the TNC drivers. I guess all is "FARE" in the business of technology.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I guess all is "FARE" in the business of technology.


Well played!


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## LA Cabbie (Nov 4, 2014)

Poolepit said:


> This:
> In the long run, [Travis] Kalanick says, prices will fall so low that the per-mile cost of travel, even for long trips in rural areas, will be cheaper in a driverless Uber than in a private car. "That could be seen as a threat," says Volvo Cars CEO Hakan Samuelsson. "We see it as an opportunity."
> Does not seem to correlate with this:
> "by the time robot Uber cabs come along there will be no more $1 markets. Uber will crank the price up sky high."


Travis Kalanick is a sycophant and pathological liar. He says the purpose of Uber is to reduce cars on the road yet claims he wants to replace 30 thousand drivers in San Fran with 1 million driverless cars. If all goes according to his masterplan, he will be the only game in town. Thus, he can then charge what he wants. A dollar a mile for Robocab sounds good.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I may have missed it in my history classes, but I don't recall reading that the introduction of the automobile,
> _(which put a lot of livery drivers, blacksmiths, wagon-wheel companies and buggy-whip makers out of work)_
> caused a "massive depression". In fact, the White Wagon Wheel Company, Sheboygan Falls, WI, is now Bemis Manufacturing Company - doing $300+mil/yr and employing over 2,000.


You miss the entire point.
It's not a change in employment paradigm.
It's the end of employment.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

I want to go to Pittsburgh some night next week and try to get a self-driving car at 2:30AM...
just so I can tell it I want to go to the Taco Bell drive-thru on the way home.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You miss the entire point.
> It's not a change in employment paradigm.
> It's the end of employment.


hardly.
6 years ago there were no uber drivers. 
If there are no Uber drivers ten years from now, the world will continue and all of those drivers will do something else.
(run car washes for self-driving cars?)


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## ubershiza (Jan 19, 2015)

Who could resist free introductory rides in a driverless volvo cab. Kiss you careers goodbye. I would personally like to thank all you mother#! [email protected]#$ that drove for the lowest piece of shtz company on earth.


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You miss the entire point.
> It's not a change in employment paradigm.
> It's the end of employment.


If you were any gloomier, you'd have to be dead. Markets have changed before, they will change again.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> hardly.
> 6 years ago there were no uber drivers.
> If there are no Uber drivers ten years from now, the world will continue and all of those drivers will do something else.
> (run car washes for self-driving cars?)


I'd like to play chess with you.
This is bigger than Fuber.
I have no idea how many pro drivers earth has, but if Uber is 1.1 million, let's say 10 million drivers globally (trucks, taxis, local delivery, limo etc).
And that's just vehicles.
Once robots wipe out human drivers, they will continue to wipe out menial labor globally.

Checkmate.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> If you were any gloomier, you'd have to be dead. Markets have changed before, they will change again.


I'm only gloomy here.
My future does not involve cab driving of any type.
I built a new website this week.
I expect revenue within the quarter.
And you know what?
I've had three back to back bumper crop revenue weeks.

Doesnt mean the end of cab driving is not right around the corner.

Sharpen up your resume.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Tablets in cars so they don't interact with drivers.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I'd like to play chess with you.
> This is bigger than Fuber.
> I have no idea how many pro drivers earth has, but if Uber is 1.1 million, let's say 10 million drivers globally (trucks, taxis, local delivery, limo etc).
> And that's just vehicles.
> ...


You're not even in the game.
If your strategy worked, humankind would have been out of work a couple of hundred years ago.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> The fleet of 100 new vehicles, will come with tablets in the back seats to tell customers what's happening and to discourage them from interacting with their drivers.
> 
> "The goal is to wean us off of having drivers in the car, so we don't want the public talking to our safety drivers," Raffi Krikorian, Uber's engineering director, told Businessweek.


Bahahaaa nothing awkward about that! I can't wait to hear pax reviews of the service.

Sitting there in a car while some "dude" hangs out in the driver's seat in silence. A computer in the back seat "discouraging" you from talking with him.

Sounds like a wonderful experience!


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Flarpy said:


> Bahahaaa nothing awkward about that! I can't wait to hear pax reviews of the service. Sitting there in a car while some "dude" hangs out in the driver's seat in silence. A computer in the back seat "discouraging" you from talking with him. Sounds like a wonderful experience!


?? It's not a business model - it's a test. (and a BS one at that, designed to impress investors)


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I want to go to Pittsburgh some night next week and try to get a self-driving car at 2:30AM...
> just so I can tell it I want to go to the Taco Bell drive-thru on the way home.


Exactly. How the hell is a self driving car going to feed the need of the college kids' late night drive thru run. Lyft will be the savior when they are the only tnc with drivers.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> ?? It's not a business model - it's a test. (and a BS one at that, designed to impress investors)


Wahahaa I realize it's a temporary thing, but it's going to give riders a weird taste of "automated" driving from the start.

First impressions are hard to change. If people give unpleasant reviews of their first experiences with this new technology, it's going to make the road that much longer.

However I do agree that it's a publicity stunt to attract more investment income and little more. I wouldn't be surprised if it were a Potemkin Village type situation where the person sitting in the driver's seat is doing more driving than Travis would like to let on.


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## hounddogman (Aug 23, 2016)

Has anyone here seen one of those Volvos in person? Just curious.


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## knowledgethrow (Aug 23, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I'd like to play chess with you.
> This is bigger than Fuber.
> I have no idea how many pro drivers earth has, but if Uber is 1.1 million, let's say 10 million drivers globally (trucks, taxis, local delivery, limo etc).
> And that's just vehicles.
> ...


It's worse than that. Think about truck drivers, for example.

They pump gas into their trucks, and maybe buy a thing or two at gas station stops (so, truckers support the jobs of gas station shop employees). They pull over and eat at truck stops, these restaurants mainly exist because of truck drivers (so, truck drivers support servers, cooks and cashiers) and then sometimes stay and sleep at places like the Red Roof Inn or whatever (so, truck drivers support that too).

Think about it, the only reason some gas station stops, truck stops (restaurants) and some hotels exists is because truck drivers use them, they're literally in the middle of nowhere in some interstate highway. If truck drivers suddenly get replaced, many jobs will be lost, not just the truck driver's.

Now add to that the jobs that each cab driver, limo driver, etc might support too (e.g. the cab driver grabs a bite at mcdonald's) and you got an awful lot of jobs lost, it's catastrophic.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

They're due to start "later this month."


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

knowledgethrow said:


> It's worse than that. Think about truck drivers, for example.
> 
> They pump gas into their trucks, and maybe buy a thing or two at gas station stops (so, truckers support the jobs of gas station shop employees). They pull over and eat at truck stops, these restaurants mainly exist because of truck drivers (so, truck drivers support servers, cooks and cashiers) and then sometimes stay and sleep at places like the Red Roof Inn or whatever (so, truck drivers support that too).
> 
> ...


Indeed sir.
Put 10 million drivers globally out of work create a tsunami of debt.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Exactly. How the hell is a self driving car going to feed the need of the college kids' late night drive thru run. Lyft will be the savior when they are the only tnc with drivers.


yeah - the entire future of TNC rests on the whims of hungry drunks at 2AM... as if an autobot car couldn't navigate a drive thru. More significantly, if UBER in the US is successful with self-driving cars, then you can kiss LYFT goodbye as a TNC - as they won't be able to compete.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Indeed sir.
> Put 10 million drivers globally out of work create a tsunami of debt.


Same could be said for technology eliminating jobs in most sectors of the economy...
Think part-time Uber/Lyft drivers will have it bad? The auto-industry lost 75% of its workforce as automation was installed in plants. The cost went down - and the quality went up.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ixt4wV2KhRf0CaUtlKJZpQ&bvm=bv.131286987,d.dmo


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## knowledgethrow (Aug 23, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> and the quality went up.
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwia4YLzpuLOAhXFlB4KHcpoCuUQFggsMAI&url=https://www.technologyreview.com/s/515926/how-technology-is-destroying-jobs/&usg=AFQjCNGyTxhQulsXPdURYWrA3KOWLFePfg&sig2=ixt4wV2KhRf0CaUtlKJZpQ&bvm=bv.131286987,d.dmo


This part is not as simple as that.

Automation had been attempted since the 80s and pretty much failed. For example, Chrysler tried applying car paint with robots but the paint was so hot it was melting the cars' tail lights. GM had a lot of quality issues due to automation, to the post it costed Cadillac its "standard of the world" reputation (well, that and all of GM's parts bin sharing, which culminated with the Cadillac Cimarron debacle).

It took car manufacturers several attempts to get the quality right with automation, and I'd say close to a decade or 15 years


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

knowledgethrow said:


> It took car manufacturers several attempts to get the quality right with automation, and I'd say close to a decade or 15 years


uh, yeah... so? The 'first' of anything is rarely the last.


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## knowledgethrow (Aug 23, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> uh, yeah... so? The 'first' of anything is rarely the last.


Yeah I know. My only point was that it wasn't as easy as it may seem, that's all...


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## rembrandt (Jul 3, 2016)

It is Washington Post that will be put out of business by growing social media.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

rembrandt said:


> It is Washington Post that will be put out of business by growing social media.


Just make sure my monthly issue of Biggin's isn't affected by robotics. However I do remember in the movie "Total Recall" that you could create you're own fantasy girl. Do you think in a couple of years I could be on the Maury show getting a DNA test to prove that I'm the father of that #8 bolt?


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## rembrandt (Jul 3, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Just make sure my monthly issue of Biggin's isn't affected by robotics. However I do remember in the movie "Total Recall" that you could create you're own fantasy girl. Do you think in a couple of years I could be on the Maury show getting a DNA test to prove that I'm the father of that #8 bolt?


Depending on how effective your *C4ISR / ISTAR* is and how efficiently you can utilize that capability in the whole spectrum of the respective theater / AOI.


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