# Upper control arms? Front struts?



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

Hello everyone. To prepare for relocation that is 1500 miles away, I got my car inspected by 2 different dealers. Both SAs agree that my car is physically fit for such a long drive. The only 2 aspects that are listed under 'caution' in the health report are engine oil leakage and worn-out front suspension. 

They both said it was not a big deal to not replace the oil pan because my car would inform me when the oil level is too low. However, as for the suspension, they recommended replacement of upper control arms due to excessively worn ball joints and front struts respectively. It is talking about ~$1k for each control arm and $500 for each strut (including labour). In either case, replacement has to be done on both sides at the same time.

They asked if I was aware of 1) uneven tyre wear, 2) vibrating steering wheel, 3) unusual noise during braking or making turns or 4) rough rides. I have not experienced any of the above. However, there are noises that resemble wood cracking over uneven road surfaces but this happens rarely. 

When do you replace upper control arms / front struts? How about the lower arms? Do they have to be replaced together with the upper arms? Grateful if you can help a fellow sister out. My car is a 2004 LS 430 with 118k miles in case it may be helpful.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Hello everyone. To prepare for relocation that is 1500 miles away, I got my car inspected by 2 different dealers. Both SAs agree that my car is physically fit for such a long drive. The only 2 aspects that are listed under 'caution' in the health report are engine oil leakage and worn-out front suspension.
> 
> They both said it was not a big deal to not replace the oil pan because my car would inform me when the oil level is too low. However, as for the suspension, they recommended replacement of upper control arms due to excessively worn ball joints and front struts respectively. It is talking about ~$1k for each control arm and $500 for each strut (including labour). In either case, replacement has to be done on both sides at the same time.
> 
> ...


Should not be worn at118,000 miles.
Quit hitting potholes & bumps !

Cheaper to steer around !


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

I would get a third party estimate from a mechanic who specializes in that type of work. Dealers are always going to be more expensive.  I use Dualtone here for that type of work.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

You leaving Texas behind???  Traitor!!! :biggrin:

When ball joints go bad, one of the symptoms is that they will start making creaking sounds. So, in that sense I guess the dealerships are correct in the diagnosis. Ball joints and bushings include rubber parts that wear out over time, not necessarily due to miles.

The control arm is just a stamped steel or cast part and that does not go bad or need replacement. Bushings are most of the time replaceable, but in some vehicles the ball joints aren't. Not sure about the LS. However, a lot of times it's easier to just replace the whole thing while you're in there. Cheapest way to go about it is just to replace the control arm bushings and ball joints, which dealers probably will not do.

Now... What comes to the prices... I know you prefer to use Lexus dealer's services, but for a 16-year old Lexus it would be much more cost effective for you to use an independent shop specializing in Lexus. There must be plenty of them in Houston. Case in point: you can buy brand new Lexus OEM control arms for under $500 directly from Lexus dealers selling parts online. Most likely the same goes for struts.

If lowers aren't considered as an issue, and I'd imagine the dealer would've immediately pointed them out, you can skip them for now.

But, if money is not your concern, then go ahead and get them done at the dealer and be done with it. What about your ES? Leaving that behind?

Safe travels to your new destination! :thumbup:


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Hello everyone. To prepare for relocation that is 1500 miles away, I got my car inspected by 2 different dealers. Both SAs agree that my car is physically fit for such a long drive. The only 2 aspects that are listed under 'caution' in the health report are engine oil leakage and worn-out front suspension.
> 
> They both said it was not a big deal to not replace the oil pan because my car would inform me when the oil level is too low. However, as for the suspension, they recommended replacement of upper control arms due to excessively worn ball joints and front struts respectively. It is talking about ~$1k for each control arm and $500 for each strut (including labour). In either case, replacement has to be done on both sides at the same time.
> 
> ...


Redo EVERYTHING !







NG!


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> Redo EVERYTHING !
> View attachment 450569
> NG!


Audi parts probably won't fit too well her Lexus, though. :whistling: :biggrin:

AND... I'd stay the hell away as far as I could from any URO parts that contain rubber parts. They are beyond bad quality. Cheap, yes, but URO rubber parts are crap. If you need any experiences, just look for comments at various MB ad BMW sites.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Hello everyone. To prepare for relocation that is 1500 miles away, I got my car inspected by 2 different dealers. Both SAs agree that my car is physically fit for such a long drive. The only 2 aspects that are listed under 'caution' in the health report are engine oil leakage and worn-out front suspension.
> 
> They both said it was not a big deal to not replace the oil pan because my car would inform me when the oil level is too low. However, as for the suspension, they recommended replacement of upper control arms due to excessively worn ball joints and front struts respectively. It is talking about ~$1k for each control arm and $500 for each strut (including labour). In either case, replacement has to be done on both sides at the same time.
> 
> ...


Buy 1 gallon of synthetic oil from Walmart , and keep it in your trunk.
Control arms and struts- no need to replace , but if you must , just buy the parts yourself and pay somebody 100$ extra to install it.
Just go to the dealership parts location and tell them to give you a quote on just the parts and compare it with other OE parts suppliers.
Dealership can give you a discount.
Go to a Toyota dealership .


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## Jperez3737 (Feb 16, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Hello everyone. To prepare for relocation that is 1500 miles away, I got my car inspected by 2 different dealers. Both SAs agree that my car is physically fit for such a long drive. The only 2 aspects that are listed under 'caution' in the health report are engine oil leakage and worn-out front suspension.
> 
> They both said it was not a big deal to not replace the oil pan because my car would inform me when the oil level is too low. However, as for the suspension, they recommended replacement of upper control arms due to excessively worn ball joints and front struts respectively. It is talking about ~$1k for each control arm and $500 for each strut (including labour). In either case, replacement has to be done on both sides at the same time.
> 
> ...


I f your car was not in an accident previously, and you know you drive nicely, just got to another mechanic. 
Are you doing Uber X with a 4.3L V8.?


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

Jperez3737 said:


> Are you doing Uber X with a 4.3L V8.?


Not anymore since it aged out after last year. i do X with a 5.3L V8, though. :biggrin:


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## Jperez3737 (Feb 16, 2019)

TomTheAnt said:


> Not anymore since it aged out after last year. i do X with a 5.3L V8, though. :biggrin:


I understand many drivers have no choice after the 5 years rules. With NO car payments, very low gas prices, and some mechanical
knowledge your case is better than many other drivers leasing, or with a $40,000 car note.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> It is talking about ~$1k for each control arm and $500 for each strut (including labour)


Lol, are they made of solid gold? Platinum?



Jperez3737 said:


> With NO car payments, very low gas prices, and some mechanical
> knowledge your case is better than many other drivers leasing, or with a $40,000 car note.


And hitting oneself on the head with a hammer is better than hitting oneself on the head with a sledgehammer. :rollseyes:


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## Mash Ghasem (Jan 12, 2020)

Pavlovian response: all I could see in the title was *"Uber control arms" :roflmao: *


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

I thought this was about exercise...


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

what kind of car ? dont buy the struts there not safety parts .
Just the control arms are .


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## UbaBrah (Oct 25, 2019)

I would not put any money beyond normal maintenance costs into an '04, but that's just me. Any repair over like a couple hundred and I would patch it up the best I could, take some nice pics, and sell it.


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## ABQuber (Jan 30, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Hello everyone. To prepare for relocation that is 1500 miles away, I got my car inspected by 2 different dealers. Both SAs agree that my car is physically fit for such a long drive. The only 2 aspects that are listed under 'caution' in the health report are engine oil leakage and worn-out front suspension.
> 
> They both said it was not a big deal to not replace the oil pan because my car would inform me when the oil level is too low. However, as for the suspension, they recommended replacement of upper control arms due to excessively worn ball joints and front struts respectively. It is talking about ~$1k for each control arm and $500 for each strut (including labour). In either case, replacement has to be done on both sides at the same time.
> 
> ...


Could be a wheel bearing going bad. At that mileage, would be about right. That could explain the cracking sounds over rough roads. But that sound would typically get worse pretty quick if you drive a lot.

Unless a strut is leaking, really no cause to replace it if there's no obvious symptoms. Same with the ball joints. First thing you'd see is the tread on the inside of the tire wearing a lot faster than the outside. Noise would follow, but continuous. If that's not happening I wouldn't worry about it, personally. Probably just trying to sell you an easy expensive job.

I say take the trip and see what happens after you get there. Won't be an issue if it's mostly interstate driving.

Check the oil every time you stop though. Yeah you have a light, but better safe than sorry when it comes to that. Keep a spare quart on you just in case


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## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

TomTheAnt said:


> You leaving Texas behind???  Traitor!!! :biggrin:
> 
> When ball joints go bad, one of the symptoms is that they will start making creaking sounds. So, in that sense I guess the dealerships are correct in the diagnosis. Ball joints and bushings include rubber parts that wear out over time, not necessarily due to miles.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind words. My future employer is open to file PR application if my performance is deemed satisfactory. Without a green card, I will need to leave the country when my visa max out in a few years of time. Owing cars and living in a house are something that I have never dreamed of in where I am from. I cannot afford to lose these luxuries.

My car has always been dealer-serviced since the 1st owner. This is probably why it still runs silk smooth as it was 16 years ago. I don't mind to spend $ but the repair has to be necessary. The cracking noise is not generated each time hitting a bump. At this moment, I am not too convinced by the SAs since I still rate a 10/10 score in terms of ride comfort. Perhaps if it rides like the rental car that I had last year, which was a Jeep Wangler Sahara, that will definitely be the time to get the parts replaced &#128514;.

That ES 350 you probably saw in the 'weekend car thread' is my sister's car. She bought it new last year (which is something that I would not do). My other car is a 2015 LS 460L but it is just not the same. I will leave it in Houston.



Jperez3737 said:


> I f your car was not in an accident previously, and you know you drive nicely, just got to another mechanic.
> Are you doing Uber X with a 4.3L V8.?


Not sure if this counts. My car was once 'rear-ended' during car wash because the idiot behind me did not put his car into neutral.

When I was a rookie, I took whatever rides that were sent to me. A month or two later, I realized that at 60 cents per mile, that is not going to sustain although I only drive a few hours each week. I have been taking X only during surge / DF.



TomTheAnt said:


> Not anymore since it aged out after last year. i do X with a 5.3L V8, though. :biggrin:


Believe it or not, my car was still eligible until this month. Last year when I uploaded the registration sticker, Uber deactivated my car due to its age. People at the hub managed to reactivate the car for the remaining months of 2019. Surprisingly, the system did not act accordingly on 1st January and let it slide until 8th April &#128518;



UbaBrah said:


> I would not put any money beyond normal maintenance costs into an '04, but that's just me. Any repair over like a couple hundred and I would patch it up the best I could, take some nice pics, and sell it.


In general, I agree. However, the car means a lot to me and I have already developed some kind of attachment to it. If you own a LS 430, you probably will not want to get rid of it too. The experience is beyond description in words. Since ownership, there were only minor repairs for the front passenger door lock and cruise control (which I am sure many can endure to not fix any of those). It was bought at $10k when I first came to the States but when it comes to selling it... Who is going to spend $5k on a 16-year old car?


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Thanks for the kind words. My future employer is open to file PR application if my performance is deemed satisfactory. Without a green card, I will need to leave the country when my visa max out in a few years of time. Owing cars and living in a house are something that I have never dreamed of in where I am from. I cannot afford to lose these luxuries.
> 
> My car has always been dealer-serviced since the 1st owner. This is probably why it still runs silk smooth as it was 16 years ago. I don't mind to spend $ but the repair has to be necessary. The cracking noise is not generated each time hitting a bump. At this moment, I am not too convinced by the SAs since I still rate a 10/10 score in terms of ride comfort. Perhaps if it rides like the rental car that I had last year, which was a Jeep Wangler Sahara, that will definitely be the time to get the parts replaced &#128514;.
> 
> ...


See if you can get it trade in for a 2nd hand Lexus that a bit newer at the dealership?
Get a LS 460 maybe which is 2009-2010. Should be pretty similar feel and comfort with a bit newer tech. Or any other Lexus ur heart desires. You'll be falling in love with the newer car in no time and getting real attached to it as well.


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

Geez. $1K for upper control arms? The upper control arm assembly is between $40-$90 on rock auto. Granted, the OEM price is probably a couple hundred and they can take a couple hours to replace, especially with rusty seized suspension bolts. But $1K is absolutely ridiculous.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> My other car is a 2015 LS 460L but it is just not the same.


Ah, yes... Now I remember. :thumbup:


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

I've replaced the UCA's on my TL over 250K miles. Twice on the passenger side. Not a terribly hard job.

I just replaced the ball joint on the front passenger side last week. That was a bugger. I probably smacked that thing 200 times with an 8lb. hammer. I eventually had to get the angle grinder out and hack it to pieces to get it out.

Struts should normally last the lifetime of the vehicle unless you see hydraulic fluid leaking. Then again, on a nearly 20 year old car, replacing them might not be a bad idea. Assuming you want to put that kind of money into that old of a car.



tohunt4me said:


> Should not be worn at118,000 miles.
> Quit hitting potholes & bumps !
> 
> Cheaper to steer around !


Werd. The biggest problem here in Utah is that they feel the need to place the manhole covers 4 inches below the surface of the road -o: :confusion:. So hitting those is nearly equivilent to hitting a pothole sans the sharp edges that would otherwise tear a sidewall. Just as hard on the suspension though.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> Redo EVERYTHING !
> View attachment 450569
> NG!


URO parts is known for their cheap cost and poor quality. I was a fool to buy a few of their parts due to low price. I'd say stay away unless you want to do that job again in a few months.

Here's what the control arm of my wife's 2004 civic looked like with 129k. Rubber parts gets oxidize, that's why driving with old tires is such a bad idea.

Left is new, right is old. Of course, this was an extreme case but the part was visible failed when I inspected the car.









If I was in Jessica's shoes and can't work on a car. First, I'd get a third opinion. If they indeed needed to be changed, I'd probably look for an independent auto repair shop and ask the them to use only Lexus parts or good aftermarket brands.

Here's the instruction of replacing the struts.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls...e-front-struts-on-my-04-base-model-ls430.html


losiglow said:


> Struts should normally last the lifetime of the vehicle unless you see hydraulic fluid leaking.


That depends on the life time... most struts are good for 5-10 years. Pass that age, they are not damping much.


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## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

Immoralized said:


> See if you can get it trade in for a 2nd hand Lexus that a bit newer at the dealership?
> Get a LS 460 maybe which is 2009-2010. Should be pretty similar feel and comfort with a bit newer tech. Or any other Lexus ur heart desires. You'll be falling in love with the newer car in no time and getting real attached to it as well.


Lexus has fixed a few of the notorious problems found in the earlier 460 models from 2010. While there was not any premature leather deterioration and melting door panels / dashboards, other common issues like wind noise and rapid wearing of suspension were present in my previous 2011. It definitely does not ride as smooth as my 430 and the engine is much noisier when idling.

It was traded in for my current 2015 460L. This car is far more beautiful and the spindle grill is stunning. The welcome light beneath the door panel is awesome too. Intriguingly, not sure how this Miami car ended up in Houston.










Technology also went downhill. Unlike my 2011, the infotainment system does not support touch-screen. While there is a 12' screen display, changing cabin settings by the mouse is quite challenging when the vehicle is in motion. Again, the ride quality is not even close to my 430. If Lexus ever revives the production of LS 430, this will be the only occasion that I buy a car brand new.

At this moment, I will either ship my 430 or drive it myself (this is why I ask for advice for whether to proceed with the replacement). If there is a well-maintained 2005/6 LS 430 on sale in my destination, I am happy to pay cash to spare me from the relocation hassles.



losiglow said:


> I've replaced the UCA's on my TL over 250K miles. Twice on the passenger side. Not a terribly hard job.
> 
> I just replaced the ball joint on the front passenger side last week. That was a bugger. I probably smacked that thing 200 times with an 8lb. hammer. I eventually had to get the angle grinder out and hack it to pieces to get it out.
> 
> Struts should normally last the lifetime of the vehicle unless you see hydraulic fluid leaking. Then again, on a nearly 20 year old car, replacing them might not be a bad idea. Assuming you want to put that kind of money into that old of a car.


Don't you worry to break the parts smacking with a hammer? Sorry for such a naive question as I am completely clueless when it comes to fixing a car. In general, you do recommend replacing everything together (control arms + struts), correct?

Actually I wonder if the ride comfort will further be augmented after getting the parts replaced. What would you expect to be different? This is certainly a bias but I have yet to find a car that rides smoother than my 430.

Thank you for your input.



amazinghl said:


> URO parts is known for their cheap cost and poor quality. I was a fool to buy a few of their parts due to low price. I'd say stay away unless you want to do that job again in a few months.
> 
> Here's what the control arm of my wife's 2004 civic looked like with 129k. Rubber parts gets oxidize, that's why driving with old tires is such a bad idea.
> 
> ...


Thank you for such great information. However, all those pictures do not look different from my eyes. Where do you all learn to work on a car? It must be nice to save thousands in maintenance and repair. The satisfaction that follows, needless to say, is priceless. Fortunately, my car has never given me any "wow" repair bills yet.

I don't mind to spend $ fixing whatever that needs to be fixed. The bottomline is that the task must be done right, not only half the job; if not exacerbates the current problem. People like me never know if a mechanics is scamming me $.... This is why I have been adhering using dealer service since ownership although they charge more.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

Used suspension parts must come apart by force. And they wear out on all cars.

You can get better prices on parts and labor to a certain extent. Until it takes too long that it's no longer worth the savings.

If you can get that complete set for like 200 that includes upper and lower control arms and sway bar links, and pay 200 for install. Otherwise you're not likely done with the job.


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## SWside (Oct 20, 2019)

kingcorey321 said:


> what kind of car ? dont buy the struts there not safety parts .
> Just the control arms are .


Sorry but that's wrong. Bad struts:

- Increase braking distances
- Cause tire bounce which is damaging to the tires, uncomfortable to passengers, and detrimental to every suspension and steering part that has to deal with the shaking. In other words it makes everything else in the suspension fail prematurely. 
- Decrease your ability to handle the vehicle in avoidance maneuvers

Do use a good independent shop to save money over the Lexus dealer.
Don't buy rubbish parts online. Have your shop order the parts. You can tell them you're on a budget and they will steer you in the right direction.

It may still cost you $1000.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> However, all those pictures do not look different from my eyes.


The center metal sleeve of the control arm is suppose to connected to the rest of the metal bracket via rubber.
You can see the rubber are all torn on used control arm and the metal sleeve is no longer attached to the rest of the control arm.
Yes, it's best to replace ALL wear items at once. Struts/strut mounts/control arms/etc.



MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Where do you all learn to work on a car?


I started buying a repair manual and read it front to back. I have the gift of remembering how to put things back together after taken them apart.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

SWside said:


> Sorry but that's wrong. Bad struts:
> 
> - Increase braking distances
> - Cause tire bounce which is damaging to the tires, uncomfortable to passengers, and detrimental to every suspension and steering part that has to deal with the shaking. In other words it makes everything else in the suspension fail prematurely.
> ...


tight on money . Go slower then 70 mph struts wont fall off . 
Control arms will .


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

MyJessicaLS430 said:


> Hello everyone. To prepare for relocation that is 1500 miles away, I got my car inspected by 2 different dealers. Both SAs agree that my car is physically fit for such a long drive. The only 2 aspects that are listed under 'caution' in the health report are engine oil leakage and worn-out front suspension.
> 
> They both said it was not a big deal to not replace the oil pan because my car would inform me when the oil level is too low. However, as for the suspension, they recommended replacement of upper control arms due to excessively worn ball joints and front struts respectively. It is talking about ~$1k for each control arm and $500 for each strut (including labour). In either case, replacement has to be done on both sides at the same time.
> 
> ...


Structs are not so important to travel. If it gone bad, your car will be bouncing and you will not get comfy. 
What important is tie rods and it is very dangerous part. Make sure they are in good conditions. (either long or short drive )


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## Las Vegas Dude (Sep 3, 2018)

If you love the car, it’s been well maintained and looks good inside and out I would say get it fixed and keep it. 10 years is the cut off for me to take it to the dealer for repairs. After the 10 year mark it goes to a 3rd party repair shop. If you have an extended warranty always take it to the dealer as they are quick to replace parts as they know the extended warranty company will pay.


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