# COBOL, a 60-year-old computer language, is in the COVID-19 spotlight



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

https://www.fastcompany.com/9048886...0_fc&utm_medium=Compass&utm_source=newsletter
*As state governments seek to fix overwhelmed unemployment benefit systems, they need programmers skilled in a language that was passé by the early 1980s.*

The current glitches with state unemployment problems are "probably not a specific flaw in the COBOL language or in the underlying implementation," Reiher says. "The problem is more likely that some states are asking their computer systems to work with data on a far higher scale, he said, and making the systems do things they've never been asked to do."

COBOL was developed in the early 1960s by computer scientists from universities, mainframe manufacturers, the defense and banking industries, and government. Based on ideas developed by programming pioneer Grace Hopper, it was driven by the need for a language that could run on a variety of different kinds of mainframes.

"It was developed to do specific kinds of things like inventory and payroll and accounts receivable," Reiher told me. "It was widely used in 1960s by a lot of banks and government agencies when they first started automating their systems."

Here in the 21st century, COBOL is still quietly doing those kinds of things. Millions of lines of COBOL code still run on mainframes used in banks and a number of government agencies, including the Department of Veterans Affairs, Department of Justice, and Social Security Administration. A 2017 Reuters reportsaid 43% of banking systems still use COBOL.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

If it ain't broke...


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

VanGuy said:


> If it ain't broke...


Maybe...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...gy-could-delay-checks-experts-say/5112012002/


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

VanGuy said:


> If it ain't broke...


It ain't broke but people familiar with the language are retiring and not being replaced. My father is an expert with Cobol and travels these United States keeping those systems going for the various state governments and he is in his 70s.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

What a joke. Freakin Cobol is one of the first programming languages. Stupid government is too cheap and pathetic to implement newer more efficient systems.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Yeah...COBOL, FORTRAN, BASIC...it's probably time to try to step into the 21st century! -o:


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## KevinJohnson (Mar 23, 2020)

Were these the same COBOL programmers that used 2 digits for the year? 99?


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## Youburr (Aug 22, 2019)

If only they needed my ALGOL skills. 
😭


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## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

Can't they train some young people COBAL?


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Teach some young people an old outdated computer language that's irrelevant in today's world? Uh...


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## KevinJohnson (Mar 23, 2020)

It is up to the businesses that use COBOL to pay for the training on an old language.


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

ABC123DEF said:


> Yeah...COBOL, FORTRAN, BASIC...it's probably time to try to step into the 21st century!


My father works with Fortran too! LOL

Governments and companies have been trying to transition away from those languages for DECADES but they are very efficient and work fine with the right people in charge. The end is coming regardless if it's better.


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## x100 (Dec 7, 2015)

ABC123DEF said:


> Yeah...COBOL, FORTRAN, BASIC...it's probably time to try to step into the 21st century! -o:


Last few years I heard even NASA is enjoyig COBOL code to a large degree!!!



June132017 said:


> Can't they train some young people COBAL?


hearing Manute Bol has the exclusive authority on hiring


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## NotMe (Sep 5, 2017)

Sad truth is modern programming is total Garbage. When all you have is 64kbyte of ram and floppy of 360kbyte size and you need to have OS running out there as well as your code there is no other option except make your code efficient and reliable.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

goneubering said:


> https://www.fastcompany.com/9048886...0_fc&utm_medium=Compass&utm_source=newsletter
> *As state governments seek to fix overwhelmed unemployment benefit systems, they need programmers skilled in a language that was passé by the early 1980s.*
> 
> The current glitches with state unemployment problems are "probably not a specific flaw in the COBOL language or in the underlying implementation," Reiher says. "The problem is more likely that some states are asking their computer systems to work with data on a far higher scale, he said, and making the systems do things they've never been asked to do."
> ...


Have they tried
. . . RUSSIAN HACKERS ???



x100 said:


> Last few years I heard even NASA is enjoyig COBOL code to a large degree!!!
> 
> 
> hearing Manute Bol has the exclusive authority on hiring


THAT PHOTO IS INAPPROPRIATE.
THAT MAN SHOULD GET HIS BALLS OUT OF HIS FACE !


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

goneubering said:


> https://www.fastcompany.com/9048886...0_fc&utm_medium=Compass&utm_source=newsletter
> *As state governments seek to fix overwhelmed unemployment benefit systems, they need programmers skilled in a language that was passé by the early 1980s.*
> 
> The current glitches with state unemployment problems are "probably not a specific flaw in the COBOL language or in the underlying implementation," Reiher says. "The problem is more likely that some states are asking their computer systems to work with data on a far higher scale, he said, and making the systems do things they've never been asked to do."
> ...


In 1971, I was an employment agent at the Employer's Clearing House in L.A.

I reviewed a lot of resumes, and there were two predominant languages employers wanted back then:

Fortran ( for the engineering jobs )
and COBOL for accounting/payroll jobs.

there were a few others, such as Pascal, but not too often.

How times have changed, and if the gov and/or banks wants people with those languages, those computer programmers are older than me and I'm almost 70


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

June132017 said:


> Can't they train some young people COBAL?


COBOL is easy! In the 80's and in other places it was overshadowed by C, and then the C pluses with Unix systems. Banks and brokerages with financial outputs use either COBOL or Fortran. These mainframes are built for the volume of data. They get faster by the generation of them. There is nothing difficult about processing COBOL. Anyone who knows web dev languages knows the syntax of JavaScript that in scripts defines things often by word commands. COBOL has shorter word commands and compiles (is read by the machine, converted to machine language to be acted upon) more easily than JavaScript is in a browser. There is no problem. The state's have their programmers. What they lack is cooperation with the US Dept of Labor.


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## MothMan (May 15, 2016)

itsablackmarket said:


> What a joke. Freakin Cobol is one of the first programming languages. Stupid government is too cheap and pathetic to implement newer more efficient systems.


My wife is a COBOL programmer for one of the largest banks in the country. People higher up her food chain have tried to replace her system three times. Each time, the newer system was slower so the change did not happen. Tough to beat IBM mainframes for some processes.



ABC123DEF said:


> Teach some young people an old outdated computer language that's irrelevant in today's world? Uh...


India is pumping out new COBOL programmers since the USA is not.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

MothMan said:


> My wife is a COBOL programmer for one of the largest banks in the country. People higher up her food chain have tried to replace her system three times. Each time, the newer system was slower so the change did not happen. Tough to beat IBM mainframes for some processes.
> 
> 
> India is pumping out new COBOL programmers since the USA is not.


Wow...very interesting. I have definitely learned something here.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

MothMan said:


> My wife is a COBOL programmer for one of the largest banks in the country. People higher up her food chain have tried to replace her system three times. Each time, the newer system was slower so the change did not happen. Tough to beat IBM mainframes for some processes.
> 
> 
> India is pumping out new COBOL programmers since the USA is not.


Well it's a lower level language that interacts almost directly with the machine instead of first talking to programs and interpreters which introduces inefficiency. I guess it makes some sense that in some circumstances older tech is better. Newer software doesn't have to be as lean because hardware is so fast these days.


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## MothMan (May 15, 2016)

Article from August of last year.

COBOL: Still the Best for New High-Volume Applications After All These Years


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

ABC123DEF said:


> Yeah...COBOL, FORTRAN, BASIC...it's probably time to try to step into the 21st century! -o:


I've driven a few people over the last year who are updating frameworks from the old legacy systems that are still being used.



itsablackmarket said:


> Well it's a lower level language that interacts almost directly with the machine instead of first talking to programs and interpreters which introduces inefficiency. I guess it makes some sense that in some circumstances older tech is better. Newer software doesn't have to be as lean because hardware is so fast these days.


Let's not forget those sexy monochrome screens :laugh:


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

I think the language was developed by a woman, Wikipedia would know. And it's an acronym, Common Business Oriented Language. You can teach new dogs old tricks, in this case 60 yrs old ones.

Grace Hopper.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Isn't all a bunch of One's and Zero's n e way ? :roflmao:

Well I did learn basic html in the early 90's.


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## NoPool4Me (Apr 16, 2018)

June132017 said:


> Can't they train some young people COBAL?


"The Common Business Oriented Language emerged at the end of the 1950s, before computer science was taught at universities. Without the embrace of academia, many COBOL programmers learned on the job at government agencies and in fields such as insurance, banking and airline reservations. They're considered the blue-collar workers of the tech industry."

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/technology/2020/04/13/if-youre-an-expert-in-cobol-youre-suddenly-in-high-demand/

Young people avoided learning it. Years ago, they all gravitated to the easier languages when making their choices on what to learn. Everyone wanted newer and better!


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

MothMan said:


> India is pumping out new COBOL programmers since the USA is not.


Carnival Cruises had my father train his Indian replacements and what should have taken a year or two required around ten. The Indians were not very competent in their jobs and knowledge of the language.


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## MothMan (May 15, 2016)

swathdiver said:


> Carnival Cruises had my father train his Indian replacements and what should have taken a year or two required around ten. The Indians were not very competent in their jobs and knowledge of the language.


I worked with a whole lot of American programmers who I labeled as unable "to program their way out of a paper bag." The one programmer I worked with who was from India is one of the sharpest minds I know.

I was a whiz when it came to procedural languages. Then the object oriented stuff showed up and I had problems.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

MothMan said:


> My wife is a COBOL programmer for one of the largest banks in the country. People higher up her food chain have tried to replace her system three times. Each time, the newer system was slower so the change did not happen. Tough to beat IBM mainframes for some processes.
> 
> 
> India is pumping out new COBOL programmers since the USA is not.


The USA is indeed pumping them out. They are coming from schools heavily funded by the financial community.



got a p said:


> I've driven a few people over the last year who are updating frameworks from the old legacy systems that are still being used.
> 
> 
> Let's not forget those sexy monochrome screens :laugh:


God what the hell are we doing with pinkies?


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## MothMan (May 15, 2016)

LADryver said:


> The USA is indeed pumping them out. They are coming from schools heavily funded by the financial community.


Those graduates are not showing up in my neck of the woods. My wife has not interviewed anybody under 50 for a number of years. The school here that pumped out COBOL programmers still has the classes on the books but it has been over 20 years since they got enough students to justify holding the courses.

I did find this link that appears to show schools that are teaching COBOL.

https://www.microfocus.com/cobol-academic-program/partners/


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## Rockocubs (Jul 31, 2017)

KevinJohnson said:


> Were these the same COBOL programmers that used 2 digits for the year? 99?


FYI two didgit year had nothing to do with COBOL but was a storage saving cost because back in the day Sorage of Data wasn't cheap. I worked 4 years fixing Code for Y2K and not all cobol either.



MothMan said:


> Those graduates are not showing up in my neck of the woods. My wife has not interviewed anybody under 50 for a number of years. The school here that pumped out COBOL programmers still has the classes on the books but it has been over 20 years since they got enough students to justify holding the courses.
> 
> I did find this link that appears to show schools that are teaching COBOL.
> 
> https://www.microfocus.com/cobol-academic-program/partners/


MicroFocus COBOL isn't new just a Verson that can run on a PC or Network compared to a MF computer.



got a p said:


> I've driven a few people over the last year who are updating frameworks from the old legacy systems that are still being used.
> 
> 
> Let's not forget those sexy monochrome screens :laugh:


Updating Frameworks has nothing to do with if you leaverage MF Provided data or not. You should use what is best for each part they do work well together if you don't try to fit everything in one size box.



MothMan said:


> I worked with a whole lot of American programmers who I labeled as unable "to program their way out of a paper bag." The one programmer I worked with who was from India is one of the sharpest minds I know.
> 
> I was a whiz when it came to procedural languages. Then the object oriented stuff showed up and I had problems.


Cobol Programmer for over 35 years and also some object oriented as well. The Lanuage is the easy part to teach how to apply it and use it real world situations is a total different matter. I have worked with people all over the world and coding isn't the issue as much as the problem solving logic behind it. Really no difference than Driving Uber you can either handle people and driving or you can't.



LADryver said:


> The USA is indeed pumping them out. They are coming from schools heavily funded by the financial community.
> 
> 
> God what the hell are we doing with pinkies?


Good companies take the right type of person with the right skill set and train them. Cobol isn't hard to learn and actualy the easiest part of the job.


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## swathdiver (Apr 18, 2019)

Rockocubs said:


> ...coding isn't the issue as much as the problem solving logic behind it. Really no difference than Driving Uber you can either handle people and driving or you can't.


^^ THIS!! ^^ I remember my father expressing the same sentiments.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

they were about to migrate away from coballs in a few months here in colorado before this virus happened. welcome to the 21st century you cavemen!


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