# ADA Poll | Blind Woman Says Uber Driver Stranded Her, Service Dog



## chi1cabby

*Blind Woman Says Uber Driver Stranded Her, Service Dog*
*







*
*http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Uber-Driver-Leaves-Blind-Woman-Seeing-Eye-Dog-283267471.html*

"Uber said its drivers are informed of ADA regulations, and added that drivers who cannot accommodate animals due to issues like allergies, safety or religious beliefs are advised to wait with the rider until another Uber arrives."


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## chi1cabby

Can we please get some more drivers to take this poll. The purpose of this Poll is to expose seemingly Another Blatant Lie by Uber. Hopefully this would lead to Uber adequately informing new and existing drivers of their obligations under ADA. This may prevent drivers from getting deactivated in the future.

And please help keep this Poll alive by posting something brief on the thread.

Thank you!


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## Sydney Uber

Woof Woof!


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## DjTim

So - this is what is going to get any of the companies in trouble. I've said it before, public transportation has rules (rideshare or not). ADA is a HUGE one. I and another member here talked privately about ADA rules and about reasonable accommodations for riders and drivers.

I'm sure this happens more often then just this single incident.


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## DCuberguy

I like dogs and I like the fare. That is too bad this happened.


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## Guest

Uber needs to do a better job at training drivers. Sorry but I got a 60% on their driver test and passed..

They could careless about safety. They just say sorry and fire the driver when something happens. They act like they provide all sorts of training...ah more like a video on YouTube that drivers don't even half to watch and a silly test that you can get a 60% on and still pass


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## Red

I think they've mentioned service dogs on orientation brief and while I'm not certain on that I sure am certain that this is the first time I'm reading about suggestion to wait with a rider for another unit. Total BS. 
You MUST take service animal by the law as far as I know.


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## DjTim

Red said:


> I think they've mentioned service dogs on orientation brief and while I'm not certain on that I sure am certain that this is the first time I'm reading about suggestion to wait with a rider for another unit. Total BS.
> You MUST take service animal by the law as far as I know.


So before I go too deep into the ADA, that's not actually true. If you can prove that your deathly allergic to an animal, or you can not safely transport that animal they you as a driver are actually protected. However, you need to communicate that to the rider and insure that they can get a ride. If you are caught lying, you can be fined and shut down - and because you are an IC this has nothing to do with Uber, you are personally liable and technically the rider can go after you directly.

Even if Uber lies if they do or do not instruct drivers on accessibility requirements, The lawsuit would go in this order. Rider sues Independent contractor. Independant contractor sues company. 2 things, The rider is going to win and the ride share company will win. Driver will lose 9 times out of 10.


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## Sydney Uber

Big Labradors tend to shed a lot of fur when temps get warmer. If you have a cloth interior you simply can't pick
Up again until a good vacuum - would Uber facilitate a cleaning fee if photos were sent?


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## uberdc/Virginia

Looks like a favorable story at Marketwatch.


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## chi1cabby

I will enumerate the grievances that the Drivers would like addressed:

1) Inequity in Earnings/Hour between the FT & PT Drivers.
2) Unfair Rating System, & it's arbitrary implementation. Lack of Review or Appeals Process for Unfair1 Star Rating.
3) Unresponsive support system.
4) Borderline Fraudulent Ads for New Drivers, & Driver Over Saturation.
5) Uber Doublespeak:








6) Inadequate Insurance.
7) Lack of In App Tipping, & use of "No Need to Tip", "Tip is Included" Marketing.
8) Cancellation Fee & Referral Bonus Shenanigans.
9) Low Operating Margins of NonSurge Priced Fares.
10) Fare Adjustments based on"Inefficient Route" complaints, without Driver consultation & notification.
11) Lack of Review or Appeals Process for Driver Deactivation.
*12) Lack of meaningful Training or Instruction to New Drivers (Such as Drivers' obligation under the ADA).*
13) UberHype marketing such as the Spotify Partnership, without any consideration of it's implication on All Drivers.
I'm sure I can list more grievances...

But Uber is unlikely to make any changes to address these grievances until it's forced to by Drivers' actions. Driving for Uber has gotten progressively worse over the course of this year. It will get a step worst when the Uber Spotify "5 Star Experience" is fully implemented.

Uber's focus is on Rapid Expansion, and Customer Experience. There is a total lack of consideration for Driver dynamics & economics.

*It really is such a shame!*

TravisK knows that he can make any policy without weighing it's real life implications on the Drivers.

Why?
1) Drivers are scared of getting deactivated if they stick their neck out.
2) Drivers are fragmented into full timers Vs part-timers; UberX (UberXL, UberPlus, UberSelect) Vs UberBLACK (UberSUV, UberLux); Mature Vs New Markets.
4) Drivers are under informed.
5) Drivers feel that it's futile and/or lack the wherewithal to put the effort, dedication, tenacity & resources to raise their voices in an concerted effort to try to counteract the abuse & blatant exploitation by Uber.

*It really is such a shame!*


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## chi1cabby

This is the extent of Uber Driver Training, and even that is not mandatory!

Uber Driver Training Video:


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## chi1cabby

And these tweets bear out the utter lack of Driver Training by Uber.


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## Elmoooy

This is just as bad as that guy who put the service dog in trunk!


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## chi1cabby

@Elmoooy thanx for reminding of that case!

*Uber sued for allegedly refusing rides to the blind and putting a dog in the trunk*
*http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-to-the-blind-and-putting-a-dog-in-the-trunk/*


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## chi1cabby

*Uber Seeks Changes To Wheelchair-Accessible Taxi Bill*
Martin Di Caro

http://m.wamu.org/#/news/14/11/18/uber_seeks_changes_to_wheelchair_accessible_taxi_bill


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## chi1cabby

*Taxis Have Lost 65 Percent of Their Business, Screwing The Disabled*

Kevin Montgomery


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## chi1cabby

*Will Uber Serve Customers With Disabilities?*
BY TED TRAUTMAN 

http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/wheelchair-users-ride-share-uber-lyft


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## chi1cabby

I could go on posting more stuff on this topic...but you get the picture.


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## Sydney Uber

chi1cabby said:


> I will enumerate the grievances that the Drivers would like addressed:
> 
> 1) Inequity in Earnings/Hour between the FT & PT Drivers.
> 2) Unfair Rating System, & it's arbitrary implementation. Lack of Review or Appeals Process for Unfair1 Star Rating.
> 3) Unresponsive support system.
> 4) Borderline Fraudulent Ads for New Drivers, & Driver Over Saturation.
> 5) Uber Doublespeak:
> View attachment 2579
> 
> 6) Inadequate Insurance.
> 7) Lack of In App Tipping, & use of "No Need to Tip", "Tip is Included" Marketing.
> 8) Cancellation Fee & Referral Bonus Shenanigans.
> 9) Low Operating Margins of NonSurge Priced Fares.
> 10) Fare Adjustments based on"Inefficient Route" complaints, without Driver consultation & notification.
> 11) Lack of Review or Appeals Process for Driver Deactivation.
> 12) Lack of meaningful Training or Instruction to New Drivers (Such as Drivers' obligation under the ADA).
> 13) UberHype marketing such as the Spotify Partnership, without any consideration of it's implication on All Drivers.
> I'm sure I can list more grievances...
> 
> But Uber is unlikely to make any changes to address these grievances until it's forced to by Drivers' actions. Driving for Uber has gotten progressively worse over the course of this year. It will get a step worst when the Uber Spotify "5 Star Experience" is fully implemented.
> 
> Uber's focus is on Rapid Expansion, and Customer Experience. There is a total lack of consideration for Driver dynamics & economics.
> 
> *It really is such a shame!*
> 
> TravisK knows that he can make any policy without giving a flying Eff about it's real life implications on the Drivers.
> 
> Why?
> 1) Drivers are scared of getting deactivated if they stick their neck out.
> 2) Drivers are fragmented into full timers Vs part-timers; UberX (UberXL, UberPlus, UberSelect) Vs UberBLACK (UberSUV, UberLux); Mature Vs New Markets.
> 4) Drivers are under informed.
> 5) Drivers are too lazy and/or lack the wherewithal to put the effort, dedication, tenacity & resources to raise their voices in an concerted effort to try to counteract the abuse & blatant exploitation by Uber.
> 
> *And Despite my pleas, only 17 forum members even bothered to answer this poll!*
> 
> *It really is such a shame!*


Here! Here!

Please take the poll!


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## DriverJ

CabbieGuy93 said:


> Uber needs to do a better job at training drivers. Sorry but I got a 60% on their driver test and passed..
> 
> They could careless about safety. They just say sorry and fire the driver when something happens. They act like they provide all sorts of training...ah more like a video on YouTube that drivers don't even half to watch and a silly test that you can get a 60% on and still pass


You took a test?


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## johnywinslow

I plan is simple, I provide the service, but if the animal in anyway disturbes me or my car the rider gets 1 star and uber gets an email, I would never strand someone!


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## pengduck

DjTim said:


> So before I go too deep into the ADA, that's not actually true. If you can prove that your deathly allergic to an animal, or you can not safely transport that animal they you as a driver are actually protected. However, you need to communicate that to the rider and insure that they can get a ride. If you are caught lying, you can be fined and shut down - and because you are an IC this has nothing to do with Uber, you are personally liable and technically the rider can go after you directly.
> 
> Even if Uber lies if they do or do not instruct drivers on accessibility requirements, The lawsuit would go in this order. Rider sues Independent contractor. Independant contractor sues company. 2 things, The rider is going to win and the ride share company will win. Driver will lose 9 times out of 10.


This furthers the need for a phone # where the drivers can talk to someone immediately. If the driver had someone to talk to he could have been instructed on the proper course of action.


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## DjTim

chi1cabby said:


> There are two separate sets of questions in this poll. 26 Drivers have answered the first set, but only 13 have answered the second set. Please answer both the questions.
> Thanx!


Sorry - I didn't see that this was a multiple choice poll. I updated my answers accordingly.


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## Sydney Uber

This is a non-discriminatory, totally inclusive poll. 

One that will provide some insight into UBER training process.

So please, all the guests online that are here please sign up and take the poll.

All those members who haven't yet taken the poll please do so, its Chi1's Sister's best friend's hairstylist' Birthday today and this could make it special for them all.


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## Sydney Uber

back over the net - boing!


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## Sydney Uber

Who hasn't taken the Poll yet?

Don't hold back!


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## oneubersheep

Uber will do whatever they please, knowing how wrong or illegal or imoral it is, until someone big enough and powerful enough puts a stop to it. They laugh all the way to the bank. It's not a union we need it's regulation! Which we will not get until a VIP of some kind is screwed by them.


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## Sydney Uber

onefuctubersheep said:


> Uber will do whatever they please, knowing how wrong or illegal or imoral it is, until someone big enough and powerful enough puts a stop to it. They laugh all the way to the bank. It's not a union we need it's regulation! Which we will not get until a VIP of some kind is screwed by them.


Now that would be interesting. Having a rolled gold VIP stuffed around by a UberX car. That would get Press


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## chi1cabby

The ADA poll ended yesterday.


*Uber Has informed me about ADA Regs on Service dogs*
11 vote(s)
33.3%
*
*Uber Has Not informed me about ADA Regs on Service dogs*
22 vote(s)
66.7%
This result clearly show that Uber provides NO meaningful Training or even rudimentary instructions on the topic of Riders with Service Dogs during the On Boarding Process for New Drivers.

The 33% of the responding Drivers who answered Yes, were informed of the ADA guidelines after the fact. These instructions were most likely sent out to Drivers when the issue flared up due to a news article or a lawsuit being filed by Disability Access Advocates.


*Uber Has advised me to wait with the rider until another Uber arrives.*
0 vote(s)
0.0%
*
*Uber Has Not advised to wait with the rider until another Uber arrives.*
21 vote(s)
And unshockingly, this result shows Uber spokespeople continuing their practice of telling whatever blatant lies that suit their momentary purposes.

Thank you to all forum members who took the time to answer this poll.


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## cybertec69

I have no issues with dogs, they are happy to see you, don't complain or rate you, they get a nice back seat and scoobie snacks, people on the other hand.


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## Gemgirlla

chi1cabby said:


> Can we please get some more drivers to take this poll. The purpose of this Poll is to expose seemingly Another Blatant Lie by Uber. Hopefully this would lead to Uber adequately informing new and existing drivers of their obligations under ADA. This may prevent drivers from getting deactivated in the future.
> 
> And please help keep this Poll alive by posting something brief on the thread.
> 
> Thank you!


Was this in the small print? I missed it


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## Gemgirlla

CabbieGuy93 said:


> Uber needs to do a better job at training drivers. Sorry but I got a 60% on their driver test and passed..
> 
> They could careless about safety. They just say sorry and fire the driver when something happens. They act like they provide all sorts of training...ah more like a video on YouTube that drivers don't even half to watch and a silly test that you can get a 60% on and still pass


What driver test?


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## chi1cabby

Gemgirlla said:


> Was this in the small print? I missed it


*http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Uber-Driver-Leaves-Blind-Woman-Seeing-Eye-Dog-283267471.html*
The Blatant Lie was the statement by the Uber spokesperson:
"Uber said its drivers are informed of ADA regulations, and added that drivers who cannot accommodate animals due to issues like allergies, safety or religious beliefs are advised to wait with the rider until another Uber arrives."


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## Gemgirlla

chi1cabby said:


> *http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Uber-Driver-Leaves-Blind-Woman-Seeing-Eye-Dog-283267471.html*
> The Blatant Lie was the statement by the Uber spokesperson:
> "Uber said its drivers are informed of ADA regulations, and added that drivers who cannot accommodate animals due to issues like allergies, safety or religious beliefs areadvised to wait with therider until another Uberarrives."


I don't recall seeing anything about ADA requirements and picking up service dogs.... I would have noticed that because frankly, I don't want a big dog in my car.  A little one is fine.


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## DriverJ

chi1cabby said:


> *http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Uber-Driver-Leaves-Blind-Woman-Seeing-Eye-Dog-283267471.html*
> The Blatant Lie was the statement by the Uber spokesperson:
> "Uber said its drivers are informed of ADA regulations, and added that drivers who cannot accommodate animals due to issues like allergies, safety or religious beliefs are advised to wait with the rider until another Uber arrives."


'Religious Beliefs ,' they can make up some quality material on the fly. Dogs are the true infedels. No rides for dogs!


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## contactone

Lol, funny this issue breaks out and I just got an email from uber with a video on how to handle riders with disabilities.


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## DriverJ

contactone said:


> Lol, funny this issue breaks out and I just got an email from uber with a video on how to handle riders with disabilities.


If their actions weren't so reprehensible they would truly be intensely funny. They're like The Three Stooges if you just dropped acid. Every time the buffoon-of-the-day releases a statement, or does an interview, I think surely that has to be


pengduck said:


> This furthers the need for a phone # where the drivers can talk to someone immediately. If the driver had someone to talk to he could have been instructed on the proper course of action.


Yeah, we know we can depend on Uber for the *'proper course of action.'* They're nothing if not a fine example. The more I think about it, the more I believe we're probably better off with no way to talk to Uber on the phone. There's no telling what kind of bizarre crap they'd be telling people to do. Just guessing, with the ADA riders, I'd bet Uber would tell the driver to dump them in a cab, then they would promptly charge them a cancellation fee before closing their account.


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## johnny danger

BOW-WOW-WOW-YIPPIE-YO-YIPPIE-YAH !!!!!!


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## arto71

Gemgirlla said:


> I don't recall seeing anything about ADA requirements and picking up service dogs.... I would have noticed that because frankly, I don't want a big dog in my car.  A little one is fine.


I've got this e-mail today from uber.






















*UBER & ACCESSIBILITY*
Hello ....,

With the help of great partners like you, Uber is changing the way people move around their cities. For people with disabilities, transportation can be one of the biggest barriers to living a healthy, independent life. It's important for our Partners to understand their obligations to serve these riders.

*ACCESSIBILITY COMPLIANCE NOTIFICATION*

Uber expects partners to comply with all state, federal and local laws governing the transportation of riders with disabilities. A transportation partner's violation of the laws governing the accommodation of riders with disabilities, including with respect to the use of service animals, constitutes a breach of the parties' Licensing Agreement.

Accordingly, service animals must be accommodated in compliance with accessibility laws. Additionally, partners are expected to accommodate riders using walkers, canes, folding wheelchairs or other small assistive devices to the maximum extent possible.

Any report of discrimination will result in temporary account deactivation while Uber reviews the incident. Confirmed violations of the law with respect to accommodation of riders with disabilities may result in permanent loss of access to the Uber platform.

Thanks to your partnership, we are helping people with disabilities live their lives without having to worry about finding safe, affordable and accommodating transportation. If you have any questions, just let us know!

Your Uber Operations Team


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## 556baller

I just got the same email today also. I have been operating with the understanding that it is my choice as to whether or not I will accept riders with animals.


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## Dakijan

556baller said:


> I just got the same email today also. I have been operating with the understanding that it is my choice as to whether or not I will accept riders with animals.


the difference is that pets aren't protected by the ADA, and service animals are. You are allowed to ask if the animal is a service animal, if they say yes, then you arent allowed to ask why have they have it, or if they have papers to support it. The ADA makes it an honor system, and you are obligated to comply


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

arto71 said:


> Accordingly, service animals must be accommodated in compliance with accessibility laws. Additionally, partners are expected to accommodate riders using walkers, canes, folding wheelchairs or other small assistive devices to the maximum extent possible.


Are you kidding me. We are not paid enough for this shit.


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## 556baller

How frustrating, absolutely no training, no information, not a single word on how to "accommodate" a rider with disability. How many of Uber's own policies contradict themselves? Can we or can't we accept the rides we want to?


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## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

556baller said:


> How frustrating, absolutely no training, no information, not a single word on how to "accommodate" a rider with disability. How many of Uber's own policies contradict themselves? Can we or can't we accept the rides we want to?


Apparently any terrible rider just has to say "I have a service animal" and you have to pick him up, even if he's 30 minutes away. And then he lets a giant muddy dog into your car. You are not allowed to stop this, or ask for any evidence of any kind that it is a service animal.


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## Dakijan

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Apparently any terrible rider just has to say "I have a service animal" and you have to pick him up, even if he's 30 minutes away. And then he lets a giant muddy dog into your car. You are not allowed to stop this, or ask for any evidence of any kind that it is a service animal.


Except you'd be dumb to accept the ride that far out. The pax can't call you if you don't accept the ride.


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## Gemgirlla

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Apparently any terrible rider just has to say "I have a service animal" and you have to pick him up, even if he's 30 minutes away. And then he lets a giant muddy dog into your car. You are not allowed to stop this, or ask for any evidence of any kind that it is a service animal.


Dogs are going in the trunk. I do love dogs though.


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## Courageous

chi1cabby said:


> *Will Uber Serve Customers With Disabilities?*
> BY TED TRAUTMAN
> 
> http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/wheelchair-users-ride-share-uber-lyft


I'm not fact checking my numbers, but here in Palm Beach County Florida, for every 10 or 15 (can't recall the exact number) vehicles in your fleet you are required to own one wheelchair accessible.


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## chi1cabby

*Uber Suit Claiming Bias Against the Blind Gets U.S. DOJ Scrutiny*

*http://www.latimes.com/business/la-...story.html?track=rss&cid=dlvr.it&dlvrit=52116*


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## Worcester Sauce

chi1cabby said:


> Can we please get some more drivers to take this poll. The purpose of this Poll is to expose seemingly Another Blatant Lie by Uber. Hopefully this would lead to Uber adequately informing new and existing drivers of their obligations under ADA. This may prevent drivers from getting deactivated in the future.
> 
> And please help keep this Poll alive by posting something brief on the thread.
> 
> Thank you!


I happily take ALL dogs....regardless of the number of legs


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## Worcester Sauce

chi1cabby said:


> I will enumerate the grievances that the Drivers would like addressed:
> 
> 1) Inequity in Earnings/Hour between the FT & PT Drivers.
> 2) Unfair Rating System, & it's arbitrary implementation. Lack of Review or Appeals Process for Unfair1 Star Rating.
> 3) Unresponsive support system.
> 4) Borderline Fraudulent Ads for New Drivers, & Driver Over Saturation.
> 5) Uber Doublespeak:
> View attachment 2579
> 
> 6) Inadequate Insurance.
> 7) Lack of In App Tipping, & use of "No Need to Tip", "Tip is Included" Marketing.
> 8) Cancellation Fee & Referral Bonus Shenanigans.
> 9) Low Operating Margins of NonSurge Priced Fares.
> 10) Fare Adjustments based on"Inefficient Route" complaints, without Driver consultation & notification.
> 11) Lack of Review or Appeals Process for Driver Deactivation.
> *12) Lack of meaningful Training or Instruction to New Drivers (Such as Drivers' obligation under the ADA).*
> 13) UberHype marketing such as the Spotify Partnership, without any consideration of it's implication on All Drivers.
> I'm sure I can list more grievances...
> 
> But Uber is unlikely to make any changes to address these grievances until it's forced to by Drivers' actions. Driving for Uber has gotten progressively worse over the course of this year. It will get a step worst when the Uber Spotify "5 Star Experience" is fully implemented.
> 
> Uber's focus is on Rapid Expansion, and Customer Experience. There is a total lack of consideration for Driver dynamics & economics.
> 
> *It really is such a shame!*
> 
> TravisK knows that he can make any policy without weighing it's real life implications on the Drivers.
> 
> Why?
> 1) Drivers are scared of getting deactivated if they stick their neck out.
> 2) Drivers are fragmented into full timers Vs part-timers; UberX (UberXL, UberPlus, UberSelect) Vs UberBLACK (UberSUV, UberLux); Mature Vs New Markets.
> 4) Drivers are under informed.
> 5) Drivers feel that it's futile and/or lack the wherewithal to put the effort, dedication, tenacity & resources to raise their voices in an concerted effort to try to counteract the abuse & blatant exploitation by Uber.
> 
> *It really is such a shame!*


So true


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## arto71

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber Suit Claiming Bias Against the Blind Gets U.S. DOJ Scrutiny*
> 
> *http://www.latimes.com/business/la-...story.html?track=rss&cid=dlvr.it&dlvrit=52116*


*Obama administration takes sides in disability suit against Uber*
*http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Obama-administration-takes-sides-in-disability-5976148.php*


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## Sydney Uber

Courageous said:


> I'm not fact checking my numbers, but here in Palm Beach County Florida, for every 10 or 15 (can't recall the exact number) vehicles in your fleet you are required to own one wheelchair accessible.


Its every 10 Cabs here in Sydney. theres a little over 600 WATs (wheelchair accessible taxis) here, they're all on one radio dispatch network (as well as an able-bodied network of their choice).

Its the one good thing that Cab networks do well here. Its heavily subsidised, but needs to be


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## SDUberdriver

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Apparently any terrible rider just has to say "I have a service animal" and you have to pick him up, even if he's 30 minutes away. And then he lets a giant muddy dog into your car. You are not allowed to stop this, or ask for any evidence of any kind that it is a service animal.


_So one day I had a passenger in a motorized wheel chair. I asked here if she was able to stand up and get into my SUV. I have a Nissan Armada. She said no,you will have to lift me. I'm like huh? So,not wanting to deny her a ride,I lifted her. Mine ,you I'm by no means a strong guy. Even though she was small,dead weight is dead weight. So I got her in . Then she proceed to tell me how to break down the wheel chair. Took about 20 mins. Then I had to lift it into my vehicle. Go to the destination ,and had to reverse what I did. I emailed Uber explaining what I did. They were very much appreciated and deposited an extra $25 into my account._


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## Gemgirlla

arto71 said:


> *Obama administration takes sides in disability suit against Uber*
> *http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Obama-administration-takes-sides-in-disability-5976148.php*


It seems a driver did put the dog in the trunk. I guess the law requires that the dog ride in the car. That's BS.


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## CityGirl

SDUberdriver said:


> _So one day I had a passenger in a motorized wheel chair. I asked here if she was able to stand up and get into my SUV. I have a Nissan Armada. She said no,you will have to lift me. I'm like huh? So,not wanting to deny her a ride,I lifted her. Mine ,you I'm by no means a strong guy. Even though she was small,dead weight is dead weight. So I got her in . Then she proceed to tell me how to break down the wheel chair. Took about 20 mins. Then I had to lift it into my vehicle. Go to the destination ,and had to reverse what I did. I emailed Uber explaining what I did. They were very much appreciated and deposited an extra $25 into my account._


I was invited to the training for UberAssist but I cannot accept. I, too, have a raised SUV. I know I'm not strong enough, nor do I want the liability, to lift anyone into my car, because they cannot climb in that high...and also, the regular wheelchairs are too heavy for me, I tried to put one in my car when my neighbor broke her leg. It's just not feasible. Not that we would EVER want to discriminate, but we aren't trained for that. What if we injure someone? Ack!


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## Gemgirlla

CityGirl said:


> I was invited to the training for UberAssist but I cannot accept. I, too, have a raised SUV. I know I'm not strong enough, nor do I want the liability, to lift anyone into my car, because they cannot climb in that high...and also, the regular wheelchairs are too heavy for me, I tried to put one in my car when my neighbor broke her leg. It's just not feasible. Not that we would EVER want to discriminate, but we aren't trained for that. What if we injure someone? Ack!


. You're smart. You would be subjecting yourself to more liability.


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## CityGirl

Gemgirlla said:


> . You're smart. You would be subjecting yourself to more liability.


Also, thinking about it a bit more, it's very likely I could injure my back lifting a person or a wheelchair into the car. A higher platform requires that you lift something beyond your natural level, it's just an accident waiting to happen. We ICs don't have worker's comp, so what would I do?? I feel bad, it would be nice to help. People in this situation will hopefully have to have a caregiver help them. I will take anyone who can get someone to put them and their equipment in the car. I'm not discriminating against their disability by any stretch, but by expecting me to go beyond my own physical ability, they would potentially be discriminating against me.


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## Gemgirlla

CityGirl said:


> Also, thinking about it a bit more, it's very likely I could injure my back lifting a person or a wheelchair into the car. A higher platform requires that you lift something beyond your natural level, it's just an accident waiting to happen. We ICs don't have worker's comp, so what would I do?? I feel bad, it would be nice to help. People in this situation will hopefully have to have a caregiver help them. I will take anyone who can get someone to put them and their equipment in the car. I'm not discriminating against their disability by any stretch, but by expecting me to go beyond my own physical ability, they would potentially be discriminating against me.


I believe you are correct that you would not be covered by workers comp since you are not an uber employee. I would not advise ever touching a passenger. The potential liability is too high. Personally, I would politely decline such a ride and perhaps tell the passenger you will wait with them while another vehicle that is equip to help them shows up. There are many services in various cities that cater to the elderly and disabled. If uber is required to provide these services under the law, they need to train drivers adequately to provide these types of services safely and carry the necessary insurance. Honestly, I think these ADA claims are just another way for enemies of ride share companies to harass Uber and the other companies. There are many things I can complain about with respect to the business practices of Uber but this is not one of them.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Gemgirlla said:


> I believe you are correct that you would not be covered by workers comp since you are not an uber employee. I would not advise ever touching a passenger. The potential liability is too high. Personally, I would politely decline such a ride and perhaps tell the passenger you will wait with them while another vehicle that is equip to help them shows up. There are many services in various cities that cater to the elderly and disabled. If uber is required to provide these services under the law, they need to train drivers adequately to provide these types of services safely and carry the necessary insurance. Honestly, I think these ADA claims are just another way for enemies of ride share companies to harass Uber and the other companies. There are many things I can complain about with respect to the business practices of Uber but this is not one of them.


lol good luck. If you decline a wheelchair-bound person, and they report you to Uber, you will be deactivated. Guaranteed.

What, their little email wasn't enough training for you?


----------



## Gemgirlla

Ir


DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> lol good luck. If you decline a wheelchair-bound person, and they report you to Uber, you will be deactivated. Guaranteed.
> 
> What, their little email wasn't enough training for you?


its cheaper than a lawsuit. At some point the potential legally liability gets too high to drive for such little money.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

Gemgirlla said:


> Ir
> 
> its cheaper than a lawsuit. At some point the potential legally liability gets too high to drive for such little money.


I agree. Uber is making a mockery of this very important American law.


----------



## Gemgirlla

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> I agree. Uber is making a mockery of this very important American law.


I also think the claim that the ride share companies are covered by the ADA is total bullshit supported by the enemies of ride share companies. It gets a lot of exposure because it deals with discrimination of disabled people and no one likes that. The truth is it is not in the best interest of people with certain types of disabilities to be transported by untrained and inadequately equipped ride share drivers. There are specific services designed to transport them safely by people trained to do so.

If I were Uber I would have taken this position instead of alleging that they have told their drivers they need to comply with the ADA and provided training, which anyone looking at the video would likely conclude is inadequate. If they lost then they could have dealt with designating certain cars and drivers equip to transport people with special needs at a higher cost of course. Uber has some pretty crappy legal counsel.


----------



## DjTim

This is going to be a interesting case here. Though I do feel the DOJ is a joke right now, this will seriously impact Uber, depending on the cost of the settlement.


----------



## DjTim

Gemgirlla said:


> I also think the claim that the ride share companies are covered by the ADA is total bullshit supported by the enemies of ride share companies. It gets a lot of exposure because it deals with discrimination of disabled people and no one likes that. The truth is it is not in the best interest of people with certain types of disabilities to be transported by untrained and inadequately equipped ride share drivers. There are specific services designed to transport them safely by people trained to do so.
> 
> If I were Uber I would have taken this position instead of alleging that they have told their drivers they need to comply with the ADA and provided training, which anyone looking at the video would likely conclude is inadequate. If they lost then they could have dealt with designating certain cars and drivers equip to transport people with special needs at a higher cost of course. Uber has some pretty crappy legal counsel.


This is a really interesting reply, but any business has to follow ADA to some extent. Some businesses do come under some additional strict rules compared to the broad ruleset that the ADA was founded on.

One thing that you really can't do is say "**** it - I don't need to do anything to be ADA compliant" or "I'm ADA compliant, prove that I'm not". Both will end you up in some form of civil or labor court, and eventually your company will pay the price.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

From http://civilrights.findlaw.com/disc...-the-americans-with-disabilities-act-ada.html :

*Q. Are there any ADA requirements for private transportation?*
The ADA's Title III provision requires private transportation businesses to provide readily accessible vehicles for individuals with disabilities. Private transportation services include airport shuttles, hotel shuttles, private buses, and *taxis*. In addition, Title III requires these services to provide readily accessible facilities, such as private bus stops and depots. - See more at: http://civilrights.findlaw.com/disc...isabilities-act-ada.html#sthash.X2qiBYsJ.dpuf

Uber's cooperation seems to be an admission that they are a transportation company.


----------



## Gemgirlla

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> From http://civilrights.findlaw.com/disc...-the-americans-with-disabilities-act-ada.html :
> 
> *Q. Are there any ADA requirements for private transportation?*
> The ADA's Title III provision requires private transportation businesses to provide readily accessible vehicles for individuals with disabilities. Private transportation services include airport shuttles, hotel shuttles, private buses, and *taxis*. In addition, Title III requires these services to provide readily accessible facilities, such as private bus stops and depots. - See more at: http://civilrights.findlaw.com/disc...isabilities-act-ada.html#sthash.X2qiBYsJ.dpuf
> 
> Uber's cooperation seems to be an admission that they are a transportation company.


Exactly!


----------



## Gemgirlla

DjTim said:


> This is a really interesting reply, but any business has to follow ADA to some extent. Some businesses do come under some additional strict rules compared to the broad ruleset that the ADA was founded on.
> 
> One thing that you really can't do is say "**** it - I don't need to do anything to be ADA compliant" or "I'm ADA compliant, prove that I'm not". Both will end you up in some form of civil or labor court, and eventually your company will pay the price.


They are already in court. Better to hold the line that the ADA doesn't apply unless they forced to comply with it. In that event, they will PROPERLY comply with it!


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

I think it would have been despicable if they tried to skirt the ADA law by saying "No, no no, see, we're just a _technology _company! Sorry grandma."


----------



## SDUberdriver

Gemgirlla said:


> I believe you are correct that you would not be covered by workers comp since you are not an uber employee. I would not advise ever touching a passenger. The potential liability is too high. Personally, I would politely decline such a ride and perhaps tell the passenger you will wait with them while another vehicle that is equip to help them shows up. There are many services in various cities that cater to the elderly and disabled. If uber is required to provide these services under the law, they need to train drivers adequately to provide these types of services safely and carry the necessary insurance. Honestly, I think these ADA claims are just another way for enemies of ride share companies to harass Uber and the other companies. There are many things I can complain about with respect to the business practices of Uber but this is not one of them.


_I agree with both of you. I felt bad for her. It was late at night. Good thing now ,here in San Diego,they have UberWAV. _


----------



## Gemgirlla

SDUberdriver said:


> _I agree with both of you. I felt bad for her. It was late at night. Good thing now ,here in San Diego,they have UberWAV. _


What is Uber Wav?


----------



## Gemgirlla

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> I think it would have been despicable if they tried to skirt the ADA law by saying "No, no no, see, we're just a _technology _company! Sorry grandma."


It's much more complicated than that.


----------



## SDUberdriver

Gemgirlla said:


> What is Uber Wav?


_Wheel Chair Access Vehicle. These vehicle have ramps for wheel chair bound passengers._


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

SDUberdriver said:


> _Wheel Chair Access Vehicle. These vehicle have ramps for wheel chair bound passengers._


Well that's great. Instead of telling UberX to pick up the slack, they need to get this nationwide, ASAP. That's what a...you know...responsible company would do.


----------



## Gemgirlla

SDUberdriver said:


> _Wheel Chair Access Vehicle. These vehicle have ramps for wheel chair bound passengers._


That's great. This is much better for the passengers who need it!


----------



## DjTim

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> From http://civilrights.findlaw.com/disc...-the-americans-with-disabilities-act-ada.html :
> 
> *Q. Are there any ADA requirements for private transportation?*
> The ADA's Title III provision requires private transportation businesses to provide readily accessible vehicles for individuals with disabilities. Private transportation services include airport shuttles, hotel shuttles, private buses, and *taxis*. In addition, Title III requires these services to provide readily accessible facilities, such as private bus stops and depots. - See more at: http://civilrights.findlaw.com/disc...isabilities-act-ada.html#sthash.X2qiBYsJ.dpuf
> 
> Uber's cooperation seems to be an admission that they are a transportation company.


What also makes this so complicated is that Title III is only one part. Each State, County & city can also add additional requirements on this. Even if you are sued say at the federal level, you can be sued again to comply with the stricter local ordinances.


----------



## Gemgirlla

Thanks. If it is determined that the ride share companies have to comply, I think it is better for everyone, especially the disabled passengers, for them to do it properly.


----------



## SDUberdriver

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Well that's great. Instead of telling UberX to pick up the slack, they need to get this nationwide, ASAP. That's what a...you know...responsible company would do.


_I thought about purchasing a wheel chair van. Its a good business . Although most who use that service are on Medical,and they have very vehicle strict vehicle requirements. So not sure how drivers here are doing with it._


----------



## Gemgirlla

SDUberdriver said:


> _I thought about purchasing a wheel chair van. Its a good business . Although most who use that service are on Medical,and they have very vehicle strict vehicle requirements. So not sure how drivers here are doing with it._


I know. It's a completely different business....


----------



## CityGirl

One of Uber's defenses in the lawsuit is they are not a common carrier such that they have to abide by ADA. Not sure how that will play out but until it does I will keep a blanket in the back in case of service dogs. You are absolutely right, there are special services with trained drivers and specially equipped vehicles to transport the disabled. I'd be concerned that each caregiver may even need special training for each individual patient. There's no way we can specialize to that degree. Uber needs to pick a lane and get that right. It doesn't need to fill every perceived void that exists. 

By the way, that reminds me, we have a Secret Cookie Service delivery in La Jolla. They dress like secret agents and bring cookies and milk. Now *that's* a sweet gig


----------



## SDUberdriver

Gemgirlla said:


> I know. It's a completely different business....


_LOL sorry ,I guess I need proof read before I hit "post reply"_


----------



## Gemgirlla

CityGirl said:


> One of Uber's defenses in the lawsuit is they are not a common carrier such that they have to abide by ADA. Not sure how that will play out but until it does I will keep a blanket in the back in case of service dogs. You are absolutely right, there are special services with trained drivers and specially equipped vehicles to transport the disabled. I'd be concerned that each caregiver may even need special training for each individual patient. There's no way we can specialize to that degree. Uber needs to pick a lane and get that right. It doesn't need to fill every perceived void that exists.
> 
> By the way, that reminds me, we have a Secret Cookie Service delivery in La Jolla. They dress like secret agents and bring cookies and milk. Now *that's* a sweet gig


.

I totally agree. Its strange they don't seem to really be focusing on an overall business and legal strategy but rather shooting from the hip as issues come up and taking inconsistent positions that are like to come back and bite them. They are a great study for MBA students on what to do and what not to do.

I would be a secret cookie agent. That sounds fun. .


----------



## DjTim

CityGirl said:


> One of Uber's defenses in the lawsuit is they are not a common carrier such that they have to abide by ADA. Not sure how that will play out but until it does I will keep a blanket in the back in case of service dogs. You are absolutely right, there are special services with trained drivers and specially equipped vehicles to transport the disabled. I'd be concerned that each caregiver may even need special training for each individual patient. There's no way we can specialize to that degree. Uber needs to pick a lane and get that right. It doesn't need to fill every perceived void that exists.
> 
> By the way, that reminds me, we have a Secret Cookie Service delivery in La Jolla. They dress like secret agents and bring cookies and milk. Now *that's* a sweet gig


One thing - if a disabled person is so disabled they require special medical transport - there's a ton of companies that already provide it. Now, if you're in a standard wheelchair (non-powered) your going to be able to get in and out of most standard vehicles . Chairs that are powered will need the UberWAV type of vehicle. People that have service dogs, well they can't put that animal in a trunk - that's just freaking crazy. There is going to be bad humans no matter what - some that even if trained with ADA knowledge, will just never comply because it's not worth their time.

Honestly - most people who are disabled to the point of being in a chair, or have a service animal may have some type of service provider already.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

DjTim said:


> One thing - if a disabled person is so disabled they require special medical transport - there's a ton of companies that already provide it. Now, if you're in a standard wheelchair (non-powered) your going to be able to get in and out of most standard vehicles . Chairs that are powered will need the UberWAV type of vehicle. People that have service dogs, well they can't put that animal in a trunk - that's just freaking crazy. There is going to be bad humans no matter what - some that even if trained with ADA knowledge, will just never comply because it's not worth their time.
> 
> Honestly - most people who are disabled to the point of being in a chair, or have a service animal may have some type of service provider already.


So? Uber, Lyft, et. al. still have to comply with the Americans with Disabilities act fully and completely. This is what Senator Tom Harkin fought so hard for. Because if we tell disabled Americans that they cannot use ride sharing services, we are telling them that they do not matter.


----------



## DjTim

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> So? Uber, Lyft, et. al. still have to comply with the Americans with Disabilities act fully and completely. This is what Senator Tom Harkin fought so hard for. Because if we tell disabled Americans that they cannot use ride sharing services, we are telling them that they do not matter.


I agree they should comply - I'm not saying different. I was stating a semi-fact that the disabled population that requires a wheelchair or have a service animal that would use Uber is really low compared to the non-disabled rider base.

NOW - what would be amazing, if in some way they could pull it off, would be for Uber to be the premier disabled ride-share company. That's the only way they could possibly get the ADA failure stink off of them. Everyone already knows that will never happen.


----------



## UL Driver SF

Personally I think this is where automated vehicles could excel. I'd be willing to pay extra taxes to foot a service like this.

In CA we would still have the DUI hurdle to deal with but with the numbers being so low I'm sure we could figure it out.


----------



## DriversOfTheWorldUnite

UL Driver SF said:


> Personally I think this is where automated vehicles could excel. I'd be willing to pay extra taxes to foot a service like this.
> 
> In CA we would still have the DUI hurdle to deal with but with the numbers being so low I'm sure we could figure it out.


Oh sure. Shove the undesirables into unmanned vehicles where no one has to look at them .


----------



## DriverJ

SDUberdriver said:


> _So one day I had a passenger in a motorized wheel chair. I asked here if she was able to stand up and get into my SUV. I have a Nissan Armada. She said no,you will have to lift me. I'm like huh? So,not wanting to deny her a ride,I lifted her. Mine ,you I'm by no means a strong guy. Even though she was small,dead weight is dead weight. So I got her in . Then she proceed to tell me how to break down the wheel chair. Took about 20 mins. Then I had to lift it into my vehicle. Go to the destination ,and had to reverse what I did. I emailed Uber explaining what I did. They were very much appreciated and deposited an extra $25 into my account._


I love seeing a story like this. First, for you being a great, thoughtful and helpful driver, but also Uber being understanding and compensating you.

Now, Uber - raise your rates! I'd like to keep doing this.


----------



## observer

Gemgirlla said:


> I believe you are correct that you would not be covered by workers comp since you are not an uber employee. I would not advise ever touching a passenger. The potential liability is too high. Personally, I would politely decline such a ride and perhaps tell the passenger you will wait with them while another vehicle that is equip to help them shows up. There are many services in various cities that cater to the elderly and disabled. If uber is required to provide these services under the law, they need to train drivers adequately to provide these types of services safely and carry the necessary insurance. Honestly, I think these ADA claims are just another way for enemies of ride share companies to harass Uber and the other companies. There are many things I can complain about with respect to the business practices of Uber but this is not one of them.


You are paying workers compensation insurance aren't you? Because if you are not, Uber isn't paying for it. You will be. Don't drop the passenger or you will be paying their medical costs too. If you haven't started your trip are they even your passenger yet?


----------



## observer

One more thing, a while back there were a few handicapped people going to restaurants and checking them for ADA violations. If a handrail was one inch to high, they would file a lawsuit. Hundreds of lawsuits. How much do you want to bet they will be checking uber drivers for compliance? They will sue Uber and the driver. Uber will try and wash their hands because drivers are independent contractors. They will say, we told drivers in our agreement about ADA responsibilities. I wonder how much a lawyer to defend yourself against this type of lawsuit costs.


----------



## UL Driver SF

Here are some questions....

Are you properly trained and qualified to extract/replace a wheelchair bound person? What if you drop or injure them while moving them? What if you damage prosthetics or medical equipment while moving or assisting them? What if you damage their wheel chair while assembly or disassembly? If it is an electric wheelchair what of you damage or render it inoperable leaving them immobile? If you have an accident that severely damages your vehicle will you be able to extract them if necessary? Do you have the physical strength to accomplish any of these tasks? Do you have a physical issue that would prevent you from performing these tasks in a non emergency setting?

There are probably more questions, but this is a good start.


----------



## Gemgirlla

observer said:


> One more thing, a while back there were a few handicapped people going to restaurants and checking them for ADA violations. If a handrail was one inch to high, they would file a lawsuit. Hundreds of lawsuits. How much do you want to bet they will be checking uber drivers for compliance? They will sue Uber and the driver. Uber will try and wash their hands because drivers are independent contractors. They will say, we told drivers in our agreement about ADA responsibilities. I wonder how much a lawyer to defend yourself against this type of lawsuit costs.


Very good observations Observer. This really could be a mess. This is one of the many instances where ride share drivers need collective representation. My guess is anyone interested in pursuing such a claim is interested in going after Uber who has the deep pockets and not the drivers (who likely have very little). I think it would be very hard for Uber to wash their hands of any liability. With that said, this does raise many issues for drivers as pointed out by UL Driver SF. I think the safest answer for drivers in situations with a potential passenger who really needs assistance that the driver is not properly trained and/or adequately equipped to accommodate, is to cancel the ride, help the passenger call a taxi or other service that is adequately equipped to accommodate them and stay with the passenger until it arrives, while treating the passenger with the upmost respect. This is just the right thing to do as a human . If a driver helps a passenger when he/she is not adequately trained or equipped to do so and the passenger is injured as a result, the driver could be found negligent. If the driver does get deactivated for this by Uber so be it. These type of regulations make me realize in part why taxis charge more than Uber. They actually comply with the laws....


----------



## Gemgirlla

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-uber-blind-20141223-story.html

"The complaint filed in September by the National Federation of the Blind of California cited more than 30 instances nationwide of blind customers being refused rides. The group alleged that some blind riders with service animals were charged cancellation fees and harassed, and in one case, a guide dog was forced into the trunk of a car and the driver refused to pull over after the customer realized where the animal was.

Uber said when the lawsuit was filed that its mobile-app service is meant "to expand access to transportation options for all, including users with visual impairments and other disabilities." The company said it would deactivate any driver who refuses to transport a service animal.

The Justice Department said in Tuesday's filing that Uber's request for dismissal of the case is ambiguous because the company appears to argue that its service isn't a 'public accommodation.' That's not something the court needs to consider in determining whether Uber violated the ADA, the government said."


----------



## chi1cabby

SDUberdriver said:


> Good thing now ,here in San Diego,they have UberWAV.


Having the UberWAV option available on the App is Not the same thing as actually providing the wheelchair accessible service. I've read many times on the forum that there never are any vehicles available, and that the fare rate is very high, minimum fare $25.

Taxi fleets provide the service at their regular rate.


----------



## chi1cabby

UberX Drivers only have the responsibility of transporting the visually impaired pax with service dogs.
If a pax is using a folding wheelchair but is capable of getting in/out of a car, then they can use UberX too.
This lawsuit isn't about manually lifting disabled Paxs, wheelchair accessible vehicles etc.


----------



## Gemgirlla

chi1cabby said:


> Having the UberWAV option available on the App is Not the same thing as actually providing the wheelchair accessible service. I've read many times on the forum that there never are any vehicles available, and that the fare rate is very high, minimum fare $25.
> 
> Taxi fleets provide the service at their regular rate.


I wonder if there regular rate is comparable to the $25 minimum Uber charges? Do the taxi fleets have specific cars designated as having wheelchair accessible service? This is all very interesting to me. I need to do some more research on the ADA requirements for the transportation industry. Only reasonable accommodation needs to be provided and there is an undue burden exception. I would be curious to see how these have been applied in the taxi industry.


----------



## Gemgirlla

chi1cabby said:


> UberX Drivers only have the responsibility of transporting the visually impaired pax with service dogs.
> If a pax is using a folding wheelchair but is capable of getting in/out of a car, then they can use UberX too.
> This lawsuit isn't about manually lifting disabled Paxs, wheelchair accessible vehicles etc.


I know... I think the issue comes up based on Uber's policy that drivers need to comply with the ADA. I don't know if Uber is limiting it to accommodating disabled people w/ service dogs. I think people are looking ahead to what might come in the future. Does Uber specifically say that drivers don't have to accommodate someone who isn't capable of getting in/or of a car w/o assistance?


----------



## chi1cabby

Gemgirlla said:


> I wonder if there regular rate is comparable to the $25 minimum Uber charges?


$25 is just the minimum charge for UberWAV. I'd read that the per mile & per minute charges were 4 times higher than UberX charges.

In Chicago 10% of cabs are wheelchair accessible, and can be requested through a centralised dispatch, even though they belong to different companies. The rate is charged is the same for regular cabs
$3.25 flag pull, $1.80/mile.
UberX & Lyft rides in Chicago have a¢30 surcharge, of which ¢20 goes towards subsidising the wheelchair accessible service by Taxis. In return for this surcharge, Uber & Lyft were freed of the responsibility of providing accessible service themselves.


----------



## observer

chi1cabby said:


> $25 is just the minimum charge for UberWAV. I'd read that the per mile & per minute charges were 4 times higher than UberX charges.
> 
> In Chicago 10% of cabs are wheelchair accessible, and can be requested through a centralised dispatch, even though they belong to different companies. The rate is charged is the same for regular cabs
> $3.25 flag pull, $1.80/mile.
> UberX & Lyft rides in Chicago have a¢30 surcharge, of which ¢20 goes towards subsidising the wheelchair accessible service by Taxis. In return for this surcharge, Uber & Lyft were freed of the responsibility of providing accessible service themselves.


Sounds like uber is purposely charging higher to price itself out of the market. Taxis can't do that, their charges are fixed.


----------



## chi1cabby




----------



## chi1cabby

This the pdf of the amicus curiae brief filed by DOJ

http://t.co/qPWlQx8Mwe


----------



## Worcester Sauce

DriversOfTheWorldUnite said:


> Are you kidding me. We are not paid enough for this shit.


.....that's right. Time to start raising rates back up Uber....in order to start covering all these "extras".


----------



## chi1cabby

Worcester Sauce said:


> in order to start covering all these "extras".


You mean "extras" like insurance that actually covers the Drivers' cars?


----------



## Worcester Sauce

chi1cabby said:


> You mean "extras" like insurance that actually covers the Drivers' cars?


exactly. Chickens are on their way home to roost Uber.


----------



## chi1cabby

Worcester Sauce said:


> Chickens are on their way home to roost Uber.


----------



## Gemgirlla

chi1cabby said:


> This the pdf of the amicus curiae brief filed by DOJ
> 
> http://t.co/qPWlQx8Mwe


Thanks! You're awesome Chi1cabby!


----------



## Gemgirlla

Gemgirlla said:


> Thanks!


Have you seen Uber's brief online?


----------



## chi1cabby

Gemgirlla said:


> Have you seen Uber's brief online?


I have not seen it.
But SF papers are good about linking court documents in their articles. You should be able to find the original case because National Federation for the Blind.


----------



## Gemgirlla

I will take a look and post if I find it.


----------



## troubleinrivercity

Gemgirlla said:


> Have you seen Uber's brief online?


read as "Have you seen Uber's airline?"
Why not, indeed! So many unfilled seats in student instruction planes!


----------



## SDUberdriver

chi1cabby said:


> $25 is just the minimum charge for UberWAV. I'd read that the per mile & per minute charges were 4 times higher than UberX charges.
> 
> In Chicago 10% of cabs are wheelchair accessible, and can be requested through a centralised dispatch, even though they belong to different companies. The rate is charged is the same for regular cabs
> $3.25 flag pull, $1.80/mile.
> UberX & Lyft rides in Chicago have a¢30 surcharge, of which ¢20 goes towards subsidising the wheelchair accessible service by Taxis. In return for this surcharge, Uber & Lyft were freed of the responsibility of providing accessible service themselves.


_Both are still cheaper than the NEMT Vans_


----------



## Worcester Sauce

chi1cabby said:


> View attachment 3037


great phrase, "global backlash". Travis, you smug, arrogant dirt bag. I find it difficult to even glance at his photo.


----------



## chi1cabby

*MEET SONIA, UBERX PARTNER AND SIXTH STAR AWARD-WINNER*

*http://blog.uber.com/nj-sixth-star-award-sonia-feb-20-2015*

How ironic that Uber gives out the Sixth Star Award to Driver Sonia for merely giving a ride to a blind lady while it's being sued in multiple jurisdictions for Not providing Access to the Disabled!


----------



## Red

chi1cabby said:


> *MEET SONIA, UBERX PARTNER AND SIXTH STAR AWARD-WINNER*
> 
> *http://blog.uber.com/nj-sixth-star-award-sonia-feb-20-2015*
> 
> How ironic that Uber gives out the Sixth Star Award to Driver Sonia for merely giving a ride to a blind lady while it's being sued in multiple jurisdictions for Not providing Access to the Disabled!


I don't see anything exceptional in Sonia's actions - any decent human being would do exactly the same thing in this situation. Makes one wonder what Uber expect of their drivers if it gets impressed by this story. Travis would probably hang up and cancel immediately after learning about extra effort needed. Not economically justified! And not that Mike could tip for that.


----------



## chi1cabby

Red said:


> I don't see anything exceptional in Sonia's actions - any decent human being would do exactly the same thing in this situation. Makes one wonder what Uber expect of their drivers if it gets impressed by this story. Travis would probably hang up and cancel immediately after learning about extra effort needed. Not economically justified! And not that Mike could tip for that.


Nope there was nothing exceptional about this.
Sonia gave a ride to a Blind Lady who was emotional about her brother being in the hospital. That was it! 
Sonia gets Uber's Sixth Star Award for it. So ironic considering that Uber's being sued in multiple jurisdictions for Not providing Access to the Disabled!


----------



## SDUberdriver

_I think I deserve the Sixth Star award. Here is my little story,and this was before the whole Sixth Star Award thing. One day I got a ping. When I arrived,I see a lady in a motorized wheelchair. She said I need to assist her in getting into my vehicle,SUV. I asked if she was able to stand up,she said no. So I got the wheelchair as close as possible to the passenger door. I then lifted her out the chair and into the seat. She then gave me instructions on how to break down the chair. Once that was done,I then had to lift it into the SUV. Once at her destination,I had to reverse the process. Now I know some will say,I should have declined the ride. But it was 12:30 am ,I did not want to leave her stranded. I did email Uber ,they where very grateful and added $25 to my account._


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## chi1cabby

*Uber Has Been Effectively Broken For Blind iPhone Users Since January*
*http://www.buzzfeed.com/wilbutler/u...r-blind-iphone-users-sinc?utm_term=.uuwJedp51*


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## Rideshare Patriot

chi1cabby said:


> *Taxis Have Lost 65 Percent of Their Business, Screwing The Disabled*
> 
> Kevin Montgomery


wow... i hate that, reminds me of some of the people that attack me on here with no cause. i wonder if these horror stories are uber/lyft or taxi cab drivers?:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/diamondcoleman/taxi-horror-stories-that-will-make-your-skin-crawl#.mrgb49jew


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## Rideshare Patriot

here are real reviews for yellow cab co-op in san fran... 615 reviews and basically a 1.5 star average, uber deactivates drivers below what??? 4.6? anyways, i just read a handful of the reviews so far and i am horrified. TNC's may need tweaking but thank God we have competition to these oligolpolistic crooked cab companies!!!!

http://www.yelp.com/biz/yellow-cab-co-op-san-francisco-2

this is why it makes me sick to my stomach when i see russell arresting great guys trying to put food on the table for their children while providing a much better experience for the paying customers.


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## Rideshare Patriot

wow.. look at the las vegas crooked cab companies? i used to travel vegas for business and when traveling there associates warned me not to bother with cabs but to just rent a car. not only is the service appalling but i hear they are way too expensive. this is what happens when businesses and govt's collude against the people. it's almost like a lil taste of cuba and russia right outside your doorstep. everyone just selfishly looks after themselves and we end up with one big "pottersfield."

http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=taxi+service&find_loc=Las+Vegas,+NV&ns=1#start=0

i can't help but think anyone that defends the old boss hog business model might not have the highest standards in morals. but hey... that's just me.


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## Casuale Haberdasher

Rideshare Patriot said:


> wow.. look at the las vegas crooked cab companies? i used to travel vegas for business and when traveling there associates warned me not to bother with cabs but to just rent a car. not only is the service appalling but i hear they are way too expensive. this is what happens when businesses and govt's collude against the people. it's almost like a lil taste of cuba and russia right outside your doorstep. everyone just selfishly looks after themselves and we end up with one big "pottersfield."
> 
> http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=taxi+service&find_loc=Las+Vegas,+NV&ns=1#start=0
> 
> i can't help but think anyone that defends the old boss hog business model might not have the highest standards in morals. but hey... that's just me.


POST # 120 /@Rideshare Patriot: Bison
is NOW
uncertain WHY you were put on his "Ig-
nore List": certainly not for linked arti-
cle availbility! You might have the
Greatest Number of Messages with Only
a 10% Approval Rating, a dubious dist-
inction. Better Luck with Future Posts!


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## chi1cabby

*UBER: DISABILITY LAWS DON'T APPLY TO US*
*http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-t-apply-to-us.html?via=mobile&source=twitter*


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## arto71

chi1cabby said:


> *UBER: DISABILITY LAWS DON'T APPLY TO US*
> *http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-t-apply-to-us.html?via=mobile&source=twitter*


In a few weeks we will host a big event here in LA ,Special Summer Olympics it'll be interesting to watch how things fold ,since lot of wheelchair accessible vehicle will be needed .


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## troubleinrivercity

This is kind of funny. Libertarians have had a loathing of disability accommodation laws since the dawn of time. And nothing else says more clearly, “We’re a bunch of childish greedy asses”.


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## DriverJ

arto71 said:


> In a few weeks we will host a big event here in LA ,Special Summer Olympics it'll be interesting to watch how things fold ,since lot of wheelchair accessible vehicle will be needed .


I believe Travis will invoke a (2x) fee for people in wheelchairs. (4x) if they're blind too! If you're a blind AMPUTEE in a wheelchair, forgetta 'bout it!


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## Sydney Uber

SDUberdriver said:


> _I think I deserve the Sixth Star award. Here is my little story,and this was before the whole Sixth Star Award thing. One day I got a ping. When I arrived,I see a lady in a motorized wheelchair. She said I need to assist her in getting into my vehicle,SUV. I asked if she was able to stand up,she said no. So I got the wheelchair as close as possible to the passenger door. I then lifted her out the chair and into the seat. She then gave me instructions on how to break down the chair. Once that was done,I then had to lift it into the SUV. Once at her destination,I had to reverse the process. Now I know some will say,I should have declined the ride. But it was 12:30 am ,I did not want to leave her stranded. I did email Uber ,they where very grateful and added $25 to my account._


How do those things tow? May have been easier just to hitch 'er up!


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## Cooluberdriver

Gemgirlla said:


> Dogs are going in the trunk. I do love dogs though.


You can't put a dog in the truck that's animal abuse. Man these are some dumb drivers


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## Gemgirlla

Cooluberdriver said:


> You can't put a dog in the truck that's animal abuse. Man these are some dumb drivers


It was a joke DB. Of course you can't. However we should be able to charge a cleaning fee for having to take a dog in our car.


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## Fuzzyelvis

Cooluberdriver said:


> You can't put a dog in the truck that's animal abuse. Man these are some dumb drivers


One driver actually DID that. Are you not aware of that? Not dumb just an asshole.


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## Gemgirlla

Fuzzyelvis said:


> One driver actually DID that. Are you not aware of that? Not dumb just an asshole.


Wow no I had not heard that. You're right.


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## chi1cabby

*Uber, Lyft Face Disability Access Questions From Massachusetts*
*http://recode.net/2015/07/18/uber-lyft-face-disability-access-questions-from-massachusetts/*


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## RainbowPlate

I know this is an old thread, but:


The pax is contracting with Uber, not the driver.
The pax pays Uber, not the driver.
The driver is (for now) NOT an Uber employee.

Therefore...

Take your ADA, and your service dog, and shove them up your bupkes. You are NOT getting in my car.


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## observer

Here we go again, Uber driver denies service to seeing eye dog,

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines...ofservice-dog-318477581.html?device=phone&c=y


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## RainbowPlate

observer said:


> Here we go again, Uber driver denies service to seeing eye dog,
> 
> http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines...ofservice-dog-318477581.html?device=phone&c=y


Even if you take the rider's one-sided account at face value (and I do not), it doesn't change the analysis:

The pax contracts with Uber, not the driver.
The pax pays Uber, not the driver.
The driver is (for now) not an Uber employee.
Therefore, any ADA obligations are solely imposed on Uber, not the driver.

Now, to the extent that Uber wants to make it their own policy that drivers must behave as if they are subject to the ADA, then I am absolutely giddy, because:

I can flagrantly ignore that policy, since I am not dumb enough to roll down my window and tell the pax that I do not allow service dogs in my car. I will just cancel and drive off.
Such a policy by Uber is yet another nail in the coffin of the "you have full control, therefore you are not an employee" delusion.


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## chi1cabby

*Uber Expanding Options for Disabled Riders in Austin*
*https://www.texastribune.org/2015/07/28/uber-expanding-options-disabled-riders-austin/*

_"One of the great things about the Austin ordinance is it allowed us a lot of flexibility to innovate here," McCottry said. "We're trying a couple of different approaches as part of this launch."_

_Uber declined to provide detail Tuesday on how the new system will work, citing proprietary information. McCottry confirmed that disabled riders will pay the same prices using UberACCESS as riders using the company's popular UberX service and that a third-party vehicle operator is part of the new program. But he stressed that there are other aspects to the new service that he could not publicly discuss, including how many wheelchair-accessible vehicles he expects to be available to Uber users in Austin._


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## observer

chi1cabby said:


> *Uber Expanding Options for Disabled Riders in Austin*
> *https://www.texastribune.org/2015/07/28/uber-expanding-options-disabled-riders-austin/*
> 
> _"One of the great things about the Austin ordinance is it allowed us a lot of flexibility to innovate here," McCottry said. "We're trying a couple of different approaches as part of this launch."_
> 
> _Uber declined to provide detail Tuesday on how the new system will work, citing proprietary information. McCottry confirmed that disabled riders will pay the same prices using UberACCESS as riders using the company's popular UberX service and that a third-party vehicle operator is part of the new program. But he stressed that there are other aspects to the new service that he could not publicly discuss, including how many wheelchair-accessible vehicles he expects to be available to Uber users in Austin._


Interesting disclaimer at the bottom of article...


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## chi1cabby

observer said:


> Interesting disclaimer at the bottom of article...


It's a standard disclaimer for Texas Tribune, as "Drive For Uber" Ads are probably on the paper's website. I've never found the paper's coverage of Uber biased or lacking.


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## arto71

*Disability rights activists protest at Uber's NYC offices for failing to put accessible cars in its fleet*
*http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...est-uber-no-accessible-cars-article-1.2310146*


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## chi1cabby

*What is Uber doing to train its drivers on disability rights?*
*http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/what-is-uber-doing-to-train-drivers-on-disability-rights/*


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## LA#1x3

Elmoooy said:


> This is just as bad as that guy who put the service dog in trunk!


Lmmmmfffffaaooo don't tell me that really happend wow this post made me laugh my ass off omg


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## chi1cabby

*Uber's Business Isn't Built to Help Disabled People*
http://www.wired.com/2015/08/uber-disability/


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## merkurfan

DCuberguy said:


> I like dogs and I like the fare. That is too bad this happened.


Honestly, I'd take the dog and leave the pax behind. They are better company and less likely to be drunk.


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