# Google’s Waze Rider carpooling service live in San Francisco, significantly cheaper than Uber/Lyft



## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

https://9to5google.com/2016/09/29/g...cisco-fraction-of-cost-compared-to-uber-lyft/

As rumored last month, Google's Uber and Lyft competitor is now live in San Francisco (via _Wall Street Journal_) as a pilot program. Waze Rider is more of a carpooling service and comes with numerous restrictions for drivers. For passengers, this results in significantly cheaper costs when compared to full ride sharing services.

First available in Israel, Waze Rider can now be downloaded from the US Play Store. Passengers can request rides from the "trusted Waze community." A _WSJ_ reporter took a ride last night and paid much less as they are essentially only "pitching in for gas." Additionally, there was a launch promotion:

Google paid the driver, local bar manager Mae Coates, $6.30 for the roughly 20-minute ride and charged the rider just $3, a discount as part of a promotion for the service's launch. The same ride outside of rush hour would cost $23 to $30 on Uber or Lyft, according to the companies' apps. A subway ride that distance costs $3.45.

Drivers are limited to two rides a day to prevent drivers from making a living on the app and thus avoiding regulatory scrutiny. A driver the _WSJ_ spoke to said the sign up process was "hassle-free" and involved telling the app her daily schedule and home/work address. Proof of insurance, background checks, or car photos were not required.

Waze aims to pair drivers and riders going to and from work every day. The service touts "non-stop ride with a driver along your route-no detours." In comparison, cheaper services Uber Pool and Lyft Line usually look for several people going in the same direction to get the cost down.

Waze Rider could possibly be highly competitive due to its lower cost. In fact, Uber saw it fit to kick Alphabet executive David Drummond from its board of directors over a possible conflict of interest. So far, Google has not announced expansion plans for the rest of the country, though users can register in the Waze Rider for expansion alerts.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Where is Google getting the revenue to pay the driver and rider ? How do they make money ? If the driver and rider are making money, especially from an external company, then it should go without saying that this is a ridesharing app and they should be considered a TNC.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Where is Google getting the revenue to pay the driver and rider ? How do they make money ? If the driver and rider are making money, especially from an external company, then it should go without saying that this is a ridesharing app and they should be considered a TNC.


They(drivers) are not making money, that is why they are paid 54 cent per mile, same as irs deduction. And, it is real carpool, as in you pickup people that work at the same company as you. At least that is what I read when I looked into it but saw my company was not part of it.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> They(drivers) are not making money, that is why they are paid 54 cent per mile, same as irs deduction. And, it is real carpool, as in you pickup people that work at the same company as you. At least that is what I read when I looked into it but saw my company was not part of it.


Real carpool is when two people agree to ride with each other while the rider agrees to kick the driver a few dollars to pay for the expenses.

Since there is a third party in the equation that seems to make it less of a carpool, if they are profiting from the equation somehow, especially if Google is paying both the driver AND rider.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> They(drivers) are not making money, that is why they are paid 54 cent per mile, same as irs deduction. And, it is real carpool, as in you pickup people that work at the same company as you. At least that is what I read when I looked into it but saw my company was not part of it.


Lol just went on waze, they will get shut down real soon. I was wrong, it looks like not specific to company, that being the case, they are rideshare and will fall under the same laws that uber. They better get the background checks going, this will be over for Google real soon.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Real carpool is when two people agree to ride with each other while the rider agrees to kick the driver a few dollars to pay for the expenses.
> 
> Since there is a third party in the equation that seems to make it less of a carpool, if they are profiting from the equation somehow, especially if Google is paying both the driver AND rider.


Orifinally they said it was between people fron same company and Waze would facilitate payments to the driver from the rider. What it has become is another rideshare, and starting out with the worst service of all, pool. This is hilarious, cannot wait to read news reports about people eating and spilling breakfast burritos and drivers kicking people out middle of nowhere having to use uber to get to work. Lol. Train wreck


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> Orifinally they said it was between people fron same company and Waze would facilitate payments to the driver from the rider. What it has become is another rideshare, and starting out with the worst service of all, pool. This is hilarious, cannot wait to read news reports about people eating and spilling breakfast burritos and drivers kicking people out middle of nowhere having to use uber to get to work. Lol. Train wreck


Not sure why Google would think people would be cool getting a ride from a stranger that hasn't been checked out in any way. If something goes wrong, why would Google think it wouldn't be liable for setting it all up.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Not sure why Google would think people would be cool getting a ride from a stranger that hasn't been checked out in any way. If something goes wrong, why would Google think it wouldn't be liable for setting it all up.


54 cents to driver is almost same for us on 25% commission, 54/.75 = 72 cents per mile.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Will insurance companies consider this carpooling if you receive compensation?

Will Google send 1099s?


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

njn said:


> Will insurance companies consider this carpooling if you receive compensation?
> 
> Will Google send 1099s?


Yup, they will lose insurance, and 1099.. they have to, they are paying the driver. All these overhead costs, for what? That is my question, what is Google up to that they want to incur all these costs for creating a rideshare company.


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## MikesUber (Oct 23, 2015)

https://www.cnet.com/videos/google-takes-on-uber-with-its-own-cheaper-ride-sharing-app/


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

MikesUber said:


> https://www.cnet.com/videos/google-takes-on-uber-with-its-own-cheaper-ride-sharing-app/


The fact that Google is facilitating everything associated with this app should be enough to tell you that they are operating as a TNC.

You could say it's a TNC-lite but it's still a TNC nonetheless.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

As soon as a third party enters the equation it no longers is a car pool.


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## hewlett2packard (Sep 29, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> They(drivers) are not making money, that is why they are paid 54 cent per mile, same as irs deduction. And, it is real carpool, as in you pickup people that work at the same company as you. At least that is what I read when I looked into it but saw my company was not part of it.


I WONDER if Uber will see this as an opportunity to lower UberX and Pool Fares.


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

hewlett2packard said:


> I WONDER if Uber will see this as an opportunity to lower UberX and Pool Fares.


We are already paid that rate.


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## Cole Hann (Aug 22, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> We are already paid that rate.


SERIOUSLY? 
dude, that's what it costs to run a car. you're working for free and being reimbursed for 
mileage. Why would u work for free? Uber Stock Options? Thx U note from Travis K? Religious Reasons?

(April 7, 2016) - Due to falling gas prices, the annual cost to own and operate a vehicle in the United States has fallen to a six-year low of $8,558 according to AAA's 2016 _Your Driving Costs _study. This year, a driver can expect to spend 57 cents for each mile driven, approximately $713 per month, to cover the fixed and variable costs associated with owning and operating a car.
http://newsroom.aaa.com/auto/your-driving-costs/


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Cole Hann said:


> SERIOUSLY?
> dude, that's what it costs to run a car. you're working for free and being reimbursed for
> mileage. Why would u work for free? Uber Stock Options? Thx U note from Travis K? Religious Reasons?
> 
> ...


Not sure what you are saying. If it is now 57, I think that is exactly what we are paid, 75 cents per mile, 25% to uber, leaves us 56 cents. Not sure where I am wrong, now, this is mileage rate, we of course get boosts and surge and other incentives; but rate is still that of irs deduction(of course not all markets).


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

Cole Hann said:


> SERIOUSLY?
> dude, that's what it costs to run a car. you're working for free and being reimbursed for
> mileage. Why would u work for free? Uber Stock Options? Thx U note from Travis K? Religious Reasons?
> 
> ...


Lastly, AAA rate does not apply to taxi/rideshare drivers, we don't drive the average 12,000 per year, instead we drive over 50,000...so all annual costs are over stated four times as high, depreciation overstated even higher, as we need to look at incremental increase, and over 50k not 12k miles...


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## OlDirtySapper (Jul 26, 2016)

I barley make enough to cover my costs driving for uber how can someone afford to drive for this service.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Lol just went on waze, they will get shut down real soon. I was wrong, it looks like not specific to company, that being the case, they are rideshare and will fall under the same laws that uber. They better get the background checks going, this will be over for Google real soon.


Rideshare is not TNC. TNC is not rideshare. One can not be the other.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Cole Hann said:


> SERIOUSLY?
> dude, that's what it costs to run a car. you're working for free and being reimbursed for
> mileage. Why would u work for free? Uber Stock Options? Thx U note from Travis K? Religious Reasons?
> 
> ...


that's based on a fully financed new car off the lot.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> As soon as a third party enters the equation it no longers is a car pool.


There is no rule that a third party can't facilitate a carpool arrangement.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

drexl_s said:


> Yup, they will lose insurance, and 1099.. they have to, they are paying the driver. All these overhead costs, for what? That is my question, what is Google up to that they want to incur all these costs for creating a rideshare company.


My guess? They are testing their app for future SDC TNC.


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## toi (Sep 8, 2014)

I have a friend who lives in oakland who carpools everyday from oakland into SF . He said they pay $1 to the driver and by doing so they can use the carpool lane on the bridge and the freeways which makes it way faster to commute for everyone.
Nothing prearranged,ppl wait at certain corners as if they were cheap labor.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

drexl_s said:


> Lol just went on waze, they will get shut down real soon. I was wrong, it looks like not specific to company, that being the case, they are rideshare and will fall under the same laws that uber. They better get the background checks going, this will be over for Google real soon.


Uber is NOT rideshare. It gets called that, but it's not.

As long as the rider is not paying more than the IRS mileage rate it IS rideshare. Uber is more, due to the paid time (and the SRF.)

Plenty of businesses organize ridesharing (carpooling) for their employees. You can find carpooling on Craigslist.

In true carpooling your insurance covers you. They LIKE it, because it means you (or your group as a whole) drive less miles, so less accidents.

Uber doesn't work that way. Especially since they expect you to go 20 minutes away to take a trip and you don't know where to. It is clearly designed for profit, whereas REAL rideshare is not.


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## UberSolo (Jul 21, 2016)

drexl_s said:


> Lastly, AAA rate does not apply to taxi/rideshare drivers, we don't drive the average 12,000 per year, instead we drive over 50,000...so all annual costs are over stated four times as high, depreciation overstated even higher, as we need to look at incremental increase, and over 50k not 12k miles...


please confirm: the AAA number should be multiplied by a factor of 4 to be representative of taxi/rideshare per mile cost?
OR Divide the AAA per mile cost by 4 to represent taxi/rideshare per mile cost? apologies. I'm an uber driver


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## UberSolo (Jul 21, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> My guess? They are testing their app for future SDC TNC.


evidence indicates everything uber is currently testing, initiating or SOP is purposeful of future SDC roll out. human drivers are a temporary annoyance


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## drexl_s (May 20, 2016)

UberSolo said:


> please confirm: the AAA number should be multiplied by a factor of 4 to be representative of taxi/rideshare per mile cost?
> OR Divide the AAA per mile cost by 4 to represent taxi/rideshare per mile cost? apologies. I'm an uber driver


I looked at that article, 14.7 cents are actual per mile, so the remaining 42.3 cent per mile would be divided by 4, so looking at 10.6 cents plus 14.7 cents, for us, actual avg cost is 25.3 cents per mile.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Uber is NOT rideshare. It gets called that, but it's not.
> 
> As long as the rider is not paying more than the IRS mileage rate it IS rideshare. Uber is more, due to the paid time (and the SRF.)
> 
> ...


This is exactly right and why Google chose to not pay more than the IRS deductable.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

In California, a TNC is defined thusly:

"
*5431.*

(a) As used in this article, a "transportation network company" is an organization, including, but not limited to, a corporation, limited liability company, partnership, sole proprietor, or any other entity, operating in California that provides prearranged transportation services for compensation using an online-enabled application or platform to connect passengers with drivers using a personal vehicle.
"​https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140AB2293

The question for a court would be what "compensation" means in this regard. Does it means strictly "profit" or does it mean any sort of money whatsoever? And to whom must this "compensation" flow? Drivers, the TNC itself, both?

I have no idea and don't want to spend the time researching case law to find out what courts have said in the past. Anyone who says "it means X" or "it means Y" is simply guessing, unless he can quote case law.

(Cue uber-fanboy RamzFanz to come in and present his opinion as fact)


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

The two trips per day limit is interesting, but has no effect on current TNC laws. Since when did the IRS care if you made a profit or not?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Flarpy said:


> In California, a TNC is defined thusly:
> 
> "
> *5431.*
> ...


It's pretty obvious this Google service is a TNC as defined by California law and that's because Google is organizing it.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Flarpy said:


> In California, a TNC is defined thusly:
> 
> "
> *5431.*
> ...


I have no opinion as to the legality, it's not my area.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> It's pretty obvious this Google service is a TNC as defined by California law and that's because Google is organizing it.


Sadly there's nothing "obvious" about law. You learn that your first year of law school.


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## OC Lady Uber Driver (Jun 26, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Where is Google getting the revenue to pay the driver and rider ? How do they make money ? If the driver and rider are making money, especially from an external company, then it should go without saying that this is a ridesharing app and they should be considered a TNC.


WAZE gets ad revenue.


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## OC Lady Uber Driver (Jun 26, 2016)

njn said:


> https://9to5google.com/2016/09/29/g...cisco-fraction-of-cost-compared-to-uber-lyft/
> 
> As rumored last month, Google's Uber and Lyft competitor is now live in San Francisco (via _Wall Street Journal_) as a pilot program. Waze Rider is more of a carpooling service and comes with numerous restrictions for drivers. For passengers, this results in significantly cheaper costs when compared to full ride sharing services.
> 
> ...


Sounds like more of a true "rideshare" experience for a fee.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

Yeah that's what ridesharing used to actually be. Sharing your car with someone on a trip that you were going to take anyway. Not driving for a living.


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