# When does a handicap go too far?



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Most of us will go way out of our way to help someone who has a disability or some handicap. We are mainly good people who will go above and beyond, but when does it go too far!

Lyft customer tonight starts calling AND texting me right off the bat with specific instructions to get as close as possible to the front door. Pull in and the driveway quickly ends. Only grass near the door. Stop at the edge of the pavement. Call from pax yelling at me that she is disabled and to drive on the grass!

Yup, should have ended it and left but in a good mood and trying to help. Will be a little extra flexible. AS I start to drive on the grass lady opens the door and shakes her cane at me and screams pull up to the step! (#2 time to cancel but I don’t ).

This lady is literally the fattest human I’ve ever seen. Screams at me to not let her cats out of the house as she exits HER house. Yep #3 time to cancel.

I wedge her into the front seat of my car and fold her walker for her into my trunk. She tells me (not asks) to put her legs into my car cause she can’t lift them. #4 time to cancel. Being in the Christmas spirit and trying to be patient I reach down and grab a filthy sweaty flab filled jelly rolled leg and lift it into my car. Gross. When we get to the destination I have set up her walker, hold both her hands and pull her up out of my car. She then tells me that Lyft Driver’s are morons and we all need to be re trained! LOL.

Yes I get it that I allowed myself to be taken advantage of.
Yes I understand psychology and she is so unhappy with her life she takes it out on others.
Yes I know I should have cancelled before I took her and it’s my own fault.

The question is, at what point are people asking too much of you for a $3.50 ride if they are truly disabled? At what point does your desire to help go too far and you cancel? When does your desire to be a decent human being end and you say enough!


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## Alexxx_Uber (Sep 3, 2018)

Did she even wish you a merry xmass and new year at least?
Hope you taught your lesson anyways.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

I pulled up for a run and the first thing the lady said was "I'm disabled. I need for you to help me into the car, then load my motorized scooter into the trunk." I pointed to the disabled parking placard hanging on the rear view mirror, motion to my walking cane, and tell her that if she wants to wait for me to get that motorized scooter into the trunk, we're going to be here a very long, long time. She decided to cancel and try for another driver before a cancel fee applied.


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## Solid 5 (Aug 24, 2018)

Seamus said:


> Most of us will go way out of our way to help someone who has a disability or some handicap. We are mainly good people who will go above and beyond, but when does it go too far!
> 
> Lyft customer tonight starts calling AND texting me right off the bat with specific instructions to get as close as possible to the front door. Pull in and the driveway quickly ends. Only grass near the door. Stop at the edge of the pavement. Call from pax yelling at me that she is disabled and to drive on the @@@@ing grass!
> 
> ...


According to how you wrote the story, you were not aware of the fact she was disabled until the second call, correct?

If that is true, personally I would have cancelled after the first call/text with pax giving instructions. A text is one thing; personally I don't answer calls (they can learn how to use the in-app message feature), and if a pax calls AND texts, then it is this...........


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

As most of you here on these message boards know I’m an ahole, I just cancel handicap people as soon as they start demanding.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Seamus said:


> Most of us will go way out of our way to help someone who has a disability or some handicap. We are mainly good people who will go above and beyond, but when does it go too far!
> 
> Lyft customer tonight starts calling AND texting me right off the bat with specific instructions to get as close as possible to the front door. Pull in and the driveway quickly ends. Only grass near the door. Stop at the edge of the pavement. Call from pax yelling at me that she is disabled and to drive on the @@@@ing grass!
> 
> ...


Shaddup you Service ANIMAL !


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

Handicaps go to far when you see a car pull into a handicap spot, then driver puts up his handicap tag...then a perfectly able person gets out of the car with no visible disability and walks into a store non chalant.....


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Instead of that stupid "yep! nope!" commercial, Lyft should hire this lady to make their next commercial. This is pure gold and much more closely grounded in reality! Honestly, I would have been tempted to save the dash cam footage and chop it up into a fake commercial myself ending with the "your earnings for this trip: $3.50!".

Two burning questions: any lost time after the fact to clean up lingering odors and was her breathing audible over the hum of your engine? Good on you for being a good human however. This just affirms that I definitely am not missing out on anything good driving almost exclusively at night.



Seamus said:


> She then tells me that Lyft Driver's are morons and we all need to be re trained! LOL.


Lol. Well, at least she got it half right!


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

mrpjfresh said:


> Two burning questions: any lost time after the fact to clean up lingering odors and was her breathing audible over the hum of your engine? Good on you for being a good human however. This just affirms that I definitely am not missing out on anything good driving almost exclusively at night.
> 
> Lol. Well, at least she got it half right!


As you can imagine her breathing was loud and labored. She was all "dolled" up going to a party so no BO, just a choking amount of perfume. LOL. I did lose time using a copious amount of hand sanitizer because I accidentally come in contact with the sweaty leg tree trunks flesh while lifting her legs and also holding her hands to pull her up out of my car. Freaked me out, cold, clammy, sweaty flesh.

I couldnt help laughing when she said we all need re training. First thing that came to mind to say was "oh you assumed we were trained?" to which she gave me a dirty look!

Oh guess what, shocking to know she gave me no tip!


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## SoFlaDriver (Aug 11, 2018)

Merc7186 said:


> Handicaps go to far when you see a car pull into a handicap spot, then driver puts up his handicap tag...then a perfectly able person gets out of the car with no visible disability and walks into a store non chalant.....


My mother's disability is a diminished breathing capacity that means she's perfectly able to walk short distances but quickly gets winded and has to stop and rest if it's a longer walk. Many disabilities are of this type. It's not immediately visible but it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Oh, and it's actually the LAW that you should not drive with your handicapped tag hanging from the mirror as it blocks a significant chunk of your field of vision, so the fact that someone hangs it up when they park is completely normal and actually recommended.


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## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

Alexxx_Uber said:


> Did she even wish you a merry xmass and new year at least?
> Hope you taught your lesson anyways.


" i_terally the fattest human I've ever seen, filthy sweaty flab filled jelly rolled leg _"

*I LOOK @ the Bright Side:
*
*I'm driving her.........*
*.........NOT sitting next to her in Coach on a 9 hour Flight to Istanbul*

*







*​*







*


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## Solid 5 (Aug 24, 2018)

SoFlaDriver said:


> My mother's disability is a diminished breathing capacity that means she's perfectly able to walk short distances but quickly gets winded and has to stop and rest if it's a longer walk. Many disabilities are of this type. It's not immediately visible but it doesn't mean it isn't there.
> 
> Oh, and it's actually the LAW that you should not drive with your handicapped tag hanging from the mirror as it blocks a significant chunk of your field of vision, so the fact that someone hangs it up when they park is completely normal and actually recommended.


Not to sound like a jerk, but what is classified as a "longer walk"? That is strictly up to the person. Some thing a long walk is 50 feet. Some think it's a mile. Too ambiguous.


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## Andre Benjamin 6000 (Nov 11, 2016)

Bless you ppl, you’re a lot nicer than I. Usually in these instances, I’ll get to the location & see if the ride is lucrative. If not, I park up street, hide & collect my cancellation fee. Matter of fact did this last night. Soon as I accepted the ride, lady text me special instructions to pick up her elderly & handicapped grandfather. Get to the pick up & see the ride f-ing sucks so I drive up the street & wait. Lady called me 6-7 times before she finally gave up. I’m just not doing all that work for a min fare ride. I’ll leave that to you good samaritans. Plus I made $5 for zero work other than driving to p/u & ignoring her calls.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)




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## johnydynamic (Aug 22, 2016)

Seamus said:


> The question is, at what point are people asking too much of you for a $3.50 ride if they are truly disabled? At what point does your desire to help go too far and you cancel? When does your desire to be a decent human being end and you say enough!


The answer to all of your questions is the same; as soon as the passenger becomes abusive.

I would have told her to call a flat-bed and left.


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## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

johnydynamic said:


> The answer to all of your questions is the same; as soon as the passenger becomes abusive.
> 
> I would have told her to call a flat-bed and left.


I won't allow any pax behavior to dictate my emotions nor reactions.
Because I'm an adult.

This pax is in rough shape, miserable and unhappy.

I like doing the decent thing in life,
rise above
And Show some Compassion

But that's me


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## johnydynamic (Aug 22, 2016)

ECOMCON said:


> I won't allow any pax behavior to dictate my emotions nor reactions.
> Because I'm an adult.


The "flat-bed" reference would be a bit juvenile. I'll give you that much.

My zero-tolerance for abuse, however, is not. It is my choice as an adult to hold those who expect to get into my car to respectful adult behavior in kind.


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## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

johnydynamic said:


> The "flat-bed" reference would be a bit juvenile. I'll give you that much.
> 
> My zero-tolerance for abuse, however, is not. It is my choice as an adult to hold those who expect to get into my car to respectful adult behavior in kind.


Correct.
It's your choice as an adult
To conduct yourself
As a juvenile would


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Andre Benjamin 6000 said:


> Bless you ppl, you're a lot nicer than I. Usually in these instances, I'll get to the location & see if the ride is lucrative. If not, I park up street, hide & collect my cancellation fee. Matter of fact did this last night. Soon as I accepted the ride, lady text me special instructions to pick up her elderly & handicapped grandfather. Get to the pick up & see the ride f-ing sucks so I drive up the street & wait. Lady called me 6-7 times before she finally gave up. I'm just not doing all that work for a min fare ride. I'll leave that to you good samaritans. Plus I made $5 for zero work other than driving to p/u & ignoring her calls.


Enjoy deactivation and the other driver will enjoy regulation because of you.


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## Andre Benjamin 6000 (Nov 11, 2016)

Demon said:


> Enjoy deactivation and the other driver will enjoy regulation because of you.


...

Enjoy your charity work.


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## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

Andre Benjamin 6000 said:


> ...
> 
> Enjoy your charity work.


Pretty good Burn unch:


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

... and then you texted Uber and asked that you never get paired with her again ... right?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Merc7186 said:


> Handicaps go to far when you see a car pull into a handicap spot, then driver puts up his handicap tag...then a perfectly able person gets out of the car with no visible disability and walks into a store non chalant.....


You have absolutely no idea what the person's disability is. You are in no position to judge, whether you like that fact or not.


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## cangold (Mar 18, 2018)

Solid 5 said:


> According to how you wrote the story, you were not aware of the fact she was disabled until the second call, correct?
> 
> If that is true, personally I would have cancelled after the first call/text with pax giving instructions. A text is one thing; personally I don't answer calls (they can learn how to use the in-app message feature), and if a pax calls AND texts, then it is this...........


Go da Bears


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## xgamrgeekx (Dec 1, 2018)

Rolled up to pick up a pax at a grocery store to see her in one of those motorized carts thinking, Damn, can I fit that in my Kia? Thankfully it was the store's and she had a cane. On the way to the drop off she mentioned going to the VA for something. I asked if she was a vet, yep, Navy. Talked about my grandfather being Navy the rest of the way to her home. Helped her take the groceries to the porch and thanked her for her service before going back to the car. $5 cash tip.

The other lady... oh man. Nice, pleasant conversation when we did speak. Her 3 family members which included two young children in the back were pretty quiet too. Get them to the drop off, pull her wheelchair out of my trunk, unfold and wheel it to my pax door. I've never done this before so I asked to be sure, better than not and looking a fool. She said just hold it steady. Gotcha. She managed to pull herself up with my door and maneuver her back to me and I noticed that she was about to sit on the arm as she was coming down. Managed to catch her in the seat as she came down. Wheeled her into her family's garage because they had no wheelchair ramp anywhere and the driveway was on a hill. No tip.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

xgamrgeekx said:


> She managed to pull herself up with my door and maneuver her back to me and I noticed that she was about to sit on the arm as she was coming down. Managed to catch her in the seat as she came down.


You mention she gave you no tip after all of that, can you imagine what you would have gotten if you had not noticed she was going in the wrong seating direction and when she sat on the seat she tumbled and hurt herself when she hit the ground?

These drives are just not worth the risk we take to provide them. So when Uber starts promoting drivers as a perfect option for special needs riders like this it really ticks me off.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Andre Benjamin 6000 said:


> ...
> 
> Enjoy your charity work.


No need for me to do charity work, I get paid to work, and I don't need to break the law to do it.


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## SoFlaDriver (Aug 11, 2018)

Solid 5 said:


> Not to sound like a jerk, but what is classified as a "longer walk"? That is strictly up to the person. Some thing a long walk is 50 feet. Some think it's a mile. Too ambiguous.


It's a determination made by a doctor in issuing the handicapped permit. Of course it's not a mile. And I'm sorry but you do sound like that.

The point is, it's absurd and overly judgmental to assume someone getting out of a car in a handicapped spot and not limping or using a cane or wheelchair or otherwise exhibiting an obvious, physically and visually detectable defect of some type is abusing the privilege. There are many categories of disability such as heart and lung conditions that won't be obvious on that level. And it's kind of mean for a healthy person to just assume someone who isn't displaying an obvious physical deficiency of some type is abusing the system.


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## Andre Benjamin 6000 (Nov 11, 2016)

Demon said:


> No need for me to do charity work, I get paid to work, and I don't need to break the law to do it.


Sure thing bud.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Merc7186 said:


> Handicaps go to far when you see a car pull into a handicap spot, then driver puts up his handicap tag...then a perfectly able person gets out of the car with no visible disability and walks into a store non chalant.....


That's the way i look...

Until i take my prosthetic leg off.

There are disabilities that aren't readily visible.

Sometimes i'm in fairly extreme pain where every step i take feels like my entire leg (even the parts that were blown off) are being stabbed by hundreds of rusty dull spoons.



Fozzie said:


> I pulled up for a run and the first thing the lady said was "I'm disabled. I need for you to help me into the car, then load my motorized scooter into the trunk." I pointed to the disabled parking placard hanging on the rear view mirror, motion to my walking cane, and tell her that if she wants to wait for me to get that motorized scooter into the trunk, we're going to be here a very long, long time. She decided to cancel and try for another driver before a cancel fee applied.


What kind of motorized wheelchair was it?

Most I've ever seen were too heavy to pretend to load. (or chitty dinky garbage)

My general rule is that they have to be able to get into and out of the car with virtually no assistance IE being able to transfer from their wheelchair into my car with me having to do little beyond holding the chair to keep it from slipping out.

"You just need to get from the wheelchair into the seat, i'll load the wheelchair into the trunk"

ONCE only _*ONCE*_ was the passenger not able to accomplish this.

"I'm sorry, i'm not going to risk dropping you getting you into and out of the car."

The guy was genuinely pissed... that i wasn't willing to risk killing/injuring him when i couldn't get him in/out of the car.

But in all the thousands of people i drove, all the hundreds and hundreds of disabled customers who ride taxis on government/insurance assistance..

All the hundreds 3:00 AM hospital pickups...

Only ONCE could they not transfer themselves from their wheelchair into the car.

Of course i DID have the fare re-dispatched for a roll-on wheelchair taxi... (a van with a ramp where you can roll a wheelchair on)

So i didn't leave them completely stranded.
Uber?

Yeah probably could have been the same thing all over again.

The dude only was only about 80-100 pounds heavier than I am and about 2 feet taller... (which only puts him at 250 pounds and about 7 foot tall)

So a Really big dude... (not obese just a really big dude)

And he expected me to help lift him into the car.



Fozzie said:


> I pulled up for a run and the first thing the lady said was "I'm disabled. I need for you to help me into the car, then load my motorized scooter into the trunk." I pointed to the disabled parking placard hanging on the rear view mirror, motion to my walking cane, and tell her that if she wants to wait for me to get that motorized scooter into the trunk, we're going to be here a very long, long time. She decided to cancel and try for another driver before a cancel fee applied.


So... do i condone what you did?

Maybe i do...
Was the wheelchair substantially over 50 pounds? (or a single piece of over 50 pounds)
Yes i condone your actions...

Would it take a Rocket surgeon to tear the wheelchair apart to make it fit in your car?
Then yes i condone your actions

Did she expect you to physically pick her up and lift her in?
Yes absolutely I condone your actions...

Was it a combination of multiple of these?
$)* yea you did the right thing.

And this is coming from a 3 legged unicorn with a disability placard who spent over a year being wheelchair bound.


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## Side Hustle (Mar 2, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Most of us will go way out of our way to help someone who has a disability or some handicap. We are mainly good people who will go above and beyond, but when does it go too far!
> 
> Lyft customer tonight starts calling AND texting me right off the bat with specific instructions to get as close as possible to the front door. Pull in and the driveway quickly ends. Only grass near the door. Stop at the edge of the pavement. Call from pax yelling at me that she is disabled and to drive on the @@@@ing grass!
> 
> ...


This is insane


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

Seamus said:


> Most of us will go way out of our way to help someone who has a disability or some handicap. We are mainly good people who will go above and beyond, but when does it go too far!
> 
> Lyft customer tonight starts calling AND texting me right off the bat with specific instructions to get as close as possible to the front door. Pull in and the driveway quickly ends. Only grass near the door. Stop at the edge of the pavement. Call from pax yelling at me that she is disabled and to drive on the @@@@ing grass!
> 
> ...


Asking to drive on grass to me is "alarm bells ringing, defcon 2 shizzles" ....time to abort mission!


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Attitude and old age- take the pax, ignore what they say
Attitude- not old age... cancel trip 
Cannot change somebody's attitude in few minutes, most likely they will ding you with a non 5 star rating


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## JTTwentySeven (Jul 13, 2017)

I would have handed her my business card, because I am a personal trainer  Give her a hint that she's obese and should do something.

But honestly, if she told me drive on the grass, that's when I'm done. I take care of my car and it is my personal vehicle. I'm not letting some a-hole mess it up.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

JTTwentySeven said:


> But honestly, if she told me drive on the grass, that's when I'm done. I take care of my car and it is my personal vehicle. I'm not letting some a-hole mess it up.


Plus, driving on grass could be construed as vandalism, and trespassing. 
I live in an area that has lots of dirt roads, country roads. Some of them are pretty rough. I tell people that I don't have a four wheel drive, and so therefore I don't go 'off road'. Had someone complain to Uber once because I made them walk about 100 yards to get home.

"Its not so far, look, its the white house right there.''
"Good," says I, "then its not too far for you to walk, right?"
"Why can't you just drive over there."
"Because there's a crater between us and your house that would swallow a VW Bug whole. This is not an off road vehicle."
"It's not that bad."
"You kidding? I can't even see the bottom.''

No tip.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Seamus said:


> As you can imagine her breathing was loud and labored. She was all "dolled" up going to a party so no BO, just a choking amount of perfume. LOL. I did lose time using a copious amount of hand sanitizer because I accidentally come in contact with the sweaty leg tree trunks flesh while lifting her legs and also holding her hands to pull her up out of my car. Freaked me out, cold, clammy, sweaty flesh.
> 
> I couldnt help laughing when she said we all need re training. First thing that came to mind to say was "oh you assumed we were trained?" to which she gave me a dirty look!
> 
> Oh guess what, shocking to know she gave me no tip!


In the state of Massachusetts, if you want to drive for a company that specializes in transporting the disabled, you must go through months of training to get certified. There is a reason for that.

But here comes Uber and Lyft. No certification needed, transportation at a fraction of the cost. We are on our own and will be held liable if something goes wrong.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

I'm out at the point where they make it where I no longer feel guilty canceling. In your case it would have been as soon as she cussed at me. I would have silently canceled and drove on.

Usually I will help the disabled otherwise but I admit when I'm in a very bad mood and not up to it I will avoid those pings when I know they are like that. This often happens when say I have made $3 an hour average so far during the day.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

How's this for perspective?
I'm a passenger with a handicap.
I don't for one minute condone this lady yelling and barking orders at you. That said, the likes of @Andre Benjamin 6000 play a big roll in why the problem exists in the first place.
I've dealt with thousands of @Andre Benjamin 6000's in my lifetime. People who think the world owes them a living, gift wrapped with a bow and a heart on top. People who think it doesn't matter who they hurt because they're nowhere near as exalted as the almighty lord ME.
Then somebody like you comes along, the exception to the rule, and sadly gets the brunt of the person's frustration. It's not right, it's not fair, it's half the passenger's fault and the other half lies with your friendly neighbourhood @Andre Benjamin 6000 type character who has created an atmosphere of mistrust, resentment and even fear.
I'm on my way to an exam. I've given myself plenty of time to get there. I get five @Andre Benjamin 6000s in a row who say I'm not where I'm supposed to be, insist on dropping me at wrong locations on purpose because it's faster for them (harm's way for me be damned), then finally I get someone who takes the job they've chosen seriously and acknowledges the fact that they share the universe with other people. Am I jolly and chipper? absolutely not. Now, knowing me I'm more likely to thank them repeatedly and burst into tears while contemplating suicide as opposed to unleashing my wrath on them, but that's just me. I'm only human. On a side note, I'm late for that exam and have to beg for extra time or to reschedule. My entire year is now on the line.
Oh, and those drivers weren't you guys (for the most part), but rather the so called specially trained disability drivers who, guess what? are only specially trained on paper. Where I come from, their qualifications consist of:
*A police check;
*An exam that proves they know where some common locations (like the hospital, nursing homes, etc are located);
*A single day of job shadowing another driver, where the trainee is the one behind the wheel and the trainer is the one going out and doing the actual work that makes the job unique while the trainee waits in the car with the heat on. They are no more prepared than you are in the beginning.

As I joined this site as a representative for the collective body of passengers dealing with unimaginable challenges, I apologize on behalf of this lady for her admittedly unacceptable behaviour. That said, @Andre Benjamin 6000 gave us a perfect example of why you had to go through that. Dealing with a disability is easy. Dealing with the humans around you is the hard part. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.


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## OtherUbersdo (May 17, 2018)

She sounds like she enjoys doughnuts . You should have left one on her lawn as you were collecting your cancellation fee . I don't know of any handicap that treating other people like garbage and cursing at them is a symptom . That ride sounds like a perfect job for the next guy .


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

I helped a disabled guy get his legs into my car. He was a big older guy, I didn't have any issue with it.

But, I did have an issue with the dude who ordered a ride for his roommate who was at a dialysis clinic about 5 blocks from his home. I parked right in the middle, between the pickup destination and the GPS location of the phone that requested the ride, and waited. Guy called me, told me I was picking up his roommate who could not walk (at dialysis) and bring him home, which was 5 blocks away. 

I told him that I am not paratransit, that I can not help his roommate into my small car, and the $3 I was going to make is not worth the effort and liability. When he got pissy about it... I told him to get his ass down there and help his roommate out and stop being such a dick. I enjoyed that cancellation if I'm honest.


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## ECOMCON (Dec 30, 2018)

Caturria said:


> How's this for perspective?
> I'm a passenger with a handicap.
> I don't for one minute condone this lady yelling and barking orders at you. That said, the likes of @Andre Benjamin 6000 play a big roll in why the problem exists in the first place.
> I've dealt with thousands of @Andre Benjamin 6000's in my lifetime. People who think the world owes them a living, gift wrapped with a bow and a heart on top. People who think it doesn't matter who they hurt because they're nowhere near as exalted as the almighty lord ME.
> ...


TL : DR


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Andre Benjamin 6000 said:


> Bless you ppl, you're a lot nicer than I. Usually in these instances, I'll get to the location & see if the ride is lucrative. If not, I park up street, hide & collect my cancellation fee. Matter of fact did this last night. Soon as I accepted the ride, lady text me special instructions to pick up her elderly & handicapped grandfather. Get to the pick up & see the ride f-ing sucks so I drive up the street & wait. Lady called me 6-7 times before she finally gave up. I'm just not doing all that work for a min fare ride. I'll leave that to you good samaritans. Plus I made $5 for zero work other than driving to p/u & ignoring her calls.


Seems like the one accepting charity here is you. You're the one hiding, avoiding calls, waiting for the time out and taking a fraudulent cancellation fee. If you don't want the ride, cancel and move on. It's no big deal. Taking advantage of the situation the way you did is wrong.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

NorCalPhil said:


> Seems like the one accepting charity here is you. You're the one hiding, avoiding calls, waiting for the time out and taking a fraudulent cancellation fee. If you don't want the ride, cancel and move on. It's no big deal. Taking advantage of the situation the way you did is wrong.


^This!
Andre is no less deserving of jail time than any other con artist.
Sad that nobody is going to bother filing a police report over $4, and that the police aren't going to bother dealing with it even if they did. Allows people to make a career of this sort of crap. It sounds like drug addict behaviour.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

NorCalPhil said:


> I told him that I am not paratransit, that I can not help his roommate into my small car, and the $3 I was going to make is not worth the effort and liability. When he got pissy about it... I told him to get his ass down there and help his roommate out and stop being such a dick. I enjoyed that cancellation if I'm honest.


If I'm honest, and, you know, why wouldn't I be, I thoroughly enjoyed that cancellation from a distance too.

Thank you.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

NorCalPhil said:


> I told him that I am not paratransit


Unfortunately, paratransit is not paratransit either. As long as they have a driver's license in good standing and no criminal record, they'll hire whomever they want and have them on the rode doing the job the very next day. They'll hire kids straight out of high school, brand new immigrants with almost zero English skills, anything goes. They don't have the social work background people think they do. In fact, every single Uber I've taken has given me service far superior to that of the so called professionals.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Caturria said:


> Unfortunately, paratransit is not paratransit either. As long as they have a driver's license in good standing and no criminal record, they'll hire whomever they want and have them on the rode doing the job the very next day. They'll hire kids straight out of high school, brand new immigrants with almost zero English skills, anything goes. They don't have the social work background people think they do. In fact, every single Uber I've taken has given me service far superior to that of the so called professionals.


Not surprised by that at all. Uber does the same. Lyft is slightly better, but not really.

There was a lady in my previous residence who needed help getting to/from the grocery store every week. She couldn't drive, and the bus was a hassle to go the 4 blocks to the store and cross the busy street. The elderly shuttle (for lack fo a better term) just wasn't reliable. I used to take her to the store on sunday on the days she was up for it, do my shopping and hers, then bring her home. Some days she just gave me a list and some cash. I was happy to help her. When my family moved to our new home, I talked with several of our neighbors trying to find someone to help her, and to my surprise all these nice, decent people couldn't be bothered.

I'm not sure whats available in Canada, but I'd consider looking elsewhere to find dependable transportation. U/L seems like a crapshoot most of the time, even for people without disabilities.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

NorCalPhil said:


> Not surprised by that at all. Uber does the same. Lyft is slightly better, but not really.


Yeah, Uber does the same, but Uber to the best of my knowledge doesn't claim otherwise.
I pretty much knew even before I came here that Uber was something that any old Joe could sign up for and that the barrier to entry didn't extend much beyond having a driver's license and choosing a suitable password. Now that's not to say Uber isn't guilty of spewing it's share of BS propaganda, I've learned things from this site I never would have known. Paratransits are either run or contracted by municipalities, and they tend to do propaganda better than they perform their intended function. People think paratransit drivers are educated as social workers. People think you can call and be picked up 10 minutes later. People think it's as convenient as jumping in their own cars and driving. People think there is somebody to hold them accountable for their actions. And their funding depends on these canards being alive and well.

I'm not sure whats available in Canada, but I'd consider looking elsewhere to find dependable transportation. U/L seems like a crapshoot most of the time, even for people without disabilities.[/QUOTE]
Yes. There's one option for almost 100 percent reliable, convenient transportation. Unfortunately I have to wait maybe 10 or so years for it. It's called my very own autonomous car. I can't freaking wait. Until then, it's paratransit, and rideshare/taxi when that fails.


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## 155839 (Jul 28, 2018)

Seamus said:


> <snip>
> 
> Lyft customer tonight starts calling AND texting me right off the bat with specific instructions to get as close as possible to the front door. Pull in and the driveway quickly ends. Only grass near the door. Stop at the edge of the pavement. Call from pax yelling at me that she is disabled and to drive on the @@@@ing grass!
> 
> ...


You kinda answered your own question _*four times*_.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Caturria said:


> my very own autonomous car. I can't freaking wait. Until then, it's paratransit, and rideshare/taxi when that fails.


Good luck with that 

Why did the chicken cross the road? So the autonomous car would stop for 30 minutes while the chicken sat in the middle of it to lay an egg, knowing it would be protected from the other cars stacked up behind it. At least until one of disgruntled drivers got hungry.

We've got these Cruze cars in SF that are autonomous (with babysitter drivers). If you put Student Driver stickers on the back of them it would be appropriate for level of competency I'm seeing. Frightening.


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## 155839 (Jul 28, 2018)

Seamus said:


> She then tells me that Lyft Driver's are morons and we all need to be re trained!


You're trained enough to know how to 1* her, which I assume you did. (Tell us you did!)



NorCalPhil said:


> We've got these Cruze cars in SF that are autonomous (with babysitter drivers). If you put Student Driver stickers on the back of them it would be appropriate for level of competency I'm seeing. Frightening.


In the Peninsula and South Bay, sometimes the Waymo Minivans and Apple Lexus SUV self-driving vehicles outnumber the regular vehicles on any given block.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

NorCalPhil said:


> Good luck with that
> 
> Why did the chicken cross the road? So the autonomous car would stop for 30 minutes while the chicken sat in the middle of it to lay an egg, knowing it would be protected from the other cars stacked up behind it. At least until one of disgruntled drivers got hungry.
> 
> We've got these Cruze cars in SF that are autonomous (with babysitter drivers). If you put Student Driver stickers on the back of them it would be appropriate for level of competency I'm seeing. Frightening.


Hence the 10 or so year estimate. Perhaps more.
I'll trust a computer over a so called specially trained professional human paratransit driver who has shuffled thousands of passengers before me, has no qualifications other than having never committed a serious crime, cannot speak my language period, has an employer who doesn't care what they do as long as they don't get into a car accident, talks on their cellphone as they drive, the list goes on.
and on and on and on and on.


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## johnydynamic (Aug 22, 2016)

ECOMCON said:


> Correct.
> It's your choice as an adult
> To conduct yourself
> As a juvenile would


Oh no! I've been humbled by bad Haiku!


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## Andre Benjamin 6000 (Nov 11, 2016)

NorCalPhil said:


> Seems like the one accepting charity here is you. You're the one hiding, avoiding calls, waiting for the time out and taking a fraudulent cancellation fee. If you don't want the ride, cancel and move on. It's no big deal. Taking advantage of the situation the way you did is wrong.


This was a Lyft ride, they frown upon cancelling rides prematurely. The pax wasn't at the pickup location either, was about 4 blocks away. I played by rules, waited at the pickup for 5 minutes & collected my stupid pax fee. Nothing states I have to respond to instructions from the pax. Nothing says I must pick up the phone. I'm confused as to why you're saying I took advantage of the situation?!?



Caturria said:


> ^This!
> Andre is no less deserving of jail time than any other con artist.
> Sad that nobody is going to bother filing a police report over $4, and that the police aren't going to bother dealing with it even if they did. Allows people to make a career of this sort of crap. It sounds like drug addict behaviour.


Jail? Addict? Lol! Melodrama much? Over a $5 cancellation fee? That's a bit much for a Lyft/Uber driver, don't you think?


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

ECOMCON said:


> I won't allow any pax behavior to dictate my emotions nor reactions.
> Because I'm an adult.
> 
> This pax is in rough shape, miserable and unhappy.
> ...


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

NorCalPhil said:


> ...Lyft is slightly better, but not really...
> .


Thanks.

And not for what I'm quoting above, that was just an awesome quotable thing you wrote, but not anywhere near the most important.

I'm thanking you just for being a decent ****ing person.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

Andre Benjamin 6000 said:


> Jail? Addict? Lol! Melodrama much? Over a $5 cancellation fee? That's a bit much for a Lyft/Uber driver, don't you think?


No, not over a $5 cancellation fee.
For making a career out of collecting fees for service you have no intentions of providing from the get go.
If you're doing this all day, every day then no, it's not melodrama to suggest that jail is appropriate and fair.



Andre Benjamin 6000 said:


> I'm confused as to why you're saying I took advantage of the situation?!?


Umm, maybe because you gloated on page one about how you scammed an old man who is a hell of a lot worse off than you are? Then when people tell you what they think of you you turn around and change your story to say your passenger wasn't even there?


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Caturria said:


> Unfortunately, paratransit is not paratransit either. As long as they have a driver's license in good standing and no criminal record, they'll hire whomever they want and have them on the rode doing the job the very next day. They'll hire kids straight out of high school, brand new immigrants with almost zero English skills, anything goes. They don't have the social work background people think they do. In fact, every single Uber I've taken has given me service far superior to that of the so called professionals.


Hopefully you have tipped your Uber drivers then? At least $1? The low pay and no tip is part of the reason why many of us hate the short trips and/or the extra work trips.

If everyone going 4 blocks or needing help getting into the car tipped me just $2 I'd never complain again about these trips. A large part of the blame for this needs to go on the rideshare companies who charge the passenger $7-$8 but pay us only $3 while at the same time discouraging tipping (was worse in the past). It is GREED on their part that they are not giving the actual service provider (the driver) more of that fare.

I'm going to be honest. Lyft just offered me a GoGoGrandparent ride a few hours earlier while I was sitting at home. I took this person before and she is nice but she usually doesn't tip and the ride was maybe $4. On another day when I am in a better mood I will take it but today I just wasn't in the mood to leave my home and load the walker, etc for $4. On top of this GoGoGrandparent probably charged her $25 for the ride. I'm sure another driver took it so I highly doubt she was stranded.

My point here though is if that ride paid $5 or $6 I almost certainly would have taken it. But the low pay makes it "meh". I don't mind helping others and like people but at the same time I need to pay my bills.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Andre Benjamin 6000 said:


> I'm confused as to why you're saying I took advantage of the situation?!?





Andre Benjamin 6000 said:


> I'll get to the location & see if the ride is lucrative. If not, I park up street, hide & collect my cancellation fee. Matter of fact did this last night.


That would be why.


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## Andre Benjamin 6000 (Nov 11, 2016)

touberornottouber said:


> Hopefully you have tipped your Uber drivers then? At least $1? The low pay and no tip is part of the reason why many of us hate the short trips and/or the extra work trips.
> 
> If everyone going 4 blocks or needing help getting into the car tipped me just $2 I'd never complain again about these trips. A large part of the blame for this needs to go on the rideshare companies who charge the passenger $7-$8 but pay us only $3 while at the same time discouraging tipping (was worse in the past). It is GREED on their part that they are not giving the actual service provider (the driver) more of that fare.
> 
> ...


Exactly!



NorCalPhil said:


> That would be why.


Ok thanks for clarifying.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

So it sounds to me like some people here have had bad experiences with Paratransit providers. Here is something to keep in mind. Your Uber ride probably costs a lot less than that Paratransit ride, and the Uber driver probably gets paid less than the Paratransit driver (I know it is a lot less in here Massachusetts). Plus the Uber driver has no training.

I am not excusing any of it. For myself, I will always accommodate.

But at the end of the day, if an option is cheaper, there should be no expectation that it should be better.


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## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

SoFlaDriver said:


> Oh, and it's actually the LAW that you should not drive with your handicapped tag hanging from the mirror as it blocks a significant chunk of your field of vision, so the fact that someone hangs it up when they park is completely normal and actually recommended.


Ignorance is a common problem on this forum. A lot of you complain about entitled riders....Most of what I read here points to drivers pompous attitudes towards less the prefect riders.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

touberornottouber said:


> Hopefully you have tipped your Uber drivers then? At least $1?


I'll tip no matter what.
My situation is that I have to ask my driver to come inside a building and get me, and bring me to the door at drop off, because of a visual impairment.
In most cases, the time involved that is above and beyond the norm is about two minutes. I always ask how much time was left on the no show timer, and they usually say 2:30 or 3:00 remaining. In such a case I'll tip $3 (on a short ride), or 15% (on a longer ride), whichever is higher.
If something unusual happens and it takes longer for them to find and load me, and say the timer actually did expire and they didn't leave, I'll tip considerably higher. I was at a theatre in this huge office building in Toronto, and when the movie was over I called Uber to go home. Uber Assist wasn't available at 1:00 AM so I called my driver to explain the help I needed. It took her 5 minutes to find the entrance I was at, 5 minutes to walk from her car to the seating I was at inside the facility, then 5 minutes to walk with me back to her car. Not only did I tip $20 (on a $90 fair), but I must have thanked her 10 times over the course of the ride, and based on her responses found myself melting down into a sobbing mess. I had no idea it would be that hard to pick me up there or I'd never have gone, so I was overwhelmed with gratitude, and found myself pretty embarrassed at the prospect of being a grown man sobbing in a stranger's car.


touberornottouber said:


> I'm going to be honest. Lyft just offered me a GoGoGrandparent ride a few hours earlier while I was sitting at home. I took this person before and she is nice but she usually doesn't tip and the ride was maybe $4. On another day when I am in a better mood I will take it but today I just wasn't in the mood to leave my home and load the walker, etc for $4. On top of this GoGoGrandparent probably charged her $25 for the ride. I'm sure another driver took it so I highly doubt she was stranded.


So you just didn't accept the ping? I don't think there's anything wrong with that (or anything wrong with cancelling immediately after accepting). The ones who accept rides knowing full well they have no intentions of taking them, then get close enough to start the clock and hide for five minutes (or wait for the passenger to cancel to collect a charge for no service) are the underbelly of society and deserve to be inmates.


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## trsfa (Dec 28, 2016)

When they become too unruly and cross the line, mace or taze them immediately.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

jazzapt said:


> Your Uber ride probably costs a lot less than that Paratransit ride,


The cost of an Uber and the cost of a Paratransit ride can't be compared apples to apples because the latter is generally kept a secret from the public.
I don't know about the laws there, but in the province of Ontario a Paratransit provider cannot charge a passenger more for a ride than conventional city transit does. That said, it obviously costs much more for the city to provide it. It's 100 percent a tax payer funded public service.
What I do know in my area is that some Paratransit drivers are paid $3 per trip only. That's regardless of distance. So they hate longer trips for the same reasons you hate shorter ones. There's another group of them who make $20 per hour, because they're in house employees instead of subcontractors. They do the exact same job for vastly different pay, so they hate each other (and both groups do things like Shuffling and then try to pin it on the other). The decently paid ones are no less guilty of providing non service.


jazzapt said:


> and the Uber driver probably gets paid less than the Paratransit driver (I know it is a lot less in here Massachusetts).


Yet the paratransit driver is equally, if not more, likely to consistently fail to provide service. Go figure. Some of you might brag about shuffling and such but those guys do it a heck of a lot more. They don't have deactivation, ratings and tips to worry about. They're unionized with almost bulletproof job security. As long as they don't get into an accident they have no consequences to worry about. If they feel like driving around for 8 hours, shuffling every one of their calls while blasting wrap music that's they're prerogative. Just don't crash the van.


jazzapt said:


> Plus the Uber driver has no training.


And the Paratransit driver does have training, complements of Google maps. So long as they know how to get to the hospital, the nursing home, the group home, the 55+ centre, etc and they have a driver's license in good standing they're sit-in' pretty. They aren't going to college to be social workers so they can drive a van.
If you want less of these more challenging rides, direct your anger towards paratransit providers who nobody is holding accountable for providing non service on your tax dollar.
I will turn to you when what I'm supposed to use fails me.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Caturria said:


> The cost of an Uber and the cost of a Paratransit ride can't be compared apples to apples because the latter is generally kept a secret from the public.
> I don't know about the laws there, but in the province of Ontario a Paratransit provider cannot charge a passenger more for a ride than conventional city transit does. That said, it obviously costs much more for the city to provide it. It's 100 percent a tax payer funded public service.
> What I do know in my area is that some Paratransit drivers are paid $3 per trip only. That's regardless of distance. So they hate longer trips for the same reasons you hate shorter ones. There's another group of them who make $20 per hour, because they're in house employees instead of subcontractors. They do the exact same job for vastly different pay, so they hate each other (and both groups do things like Shuffling and then try to pin it on the other). The decently paid ones are no less guilty of providing non service.
> 
> ...


And you can turn to us, that is fine. But the point of my post is not to expect anything better from an Uber/Lyft driver than you would a Paratransit driver. An Uber/Lyft driver gets paid pennies, at best, to drive able-bodied people from point A to point B. When you add the extra time and care required to transport a disabled person (trying to find them/ help them in and out of the car/ help stow their equipment, etc...) , many Uber/Lyft drivers will see that as a money loser. And as nice as it would be to do it out of the goodness of our own hearts, most of us are out here to make money, not to lose it. And that takes precedence.

The bottom line is while some drivers (like me) believe we took the ping and we should follow it through, I don't blame the ones who don't. And I won't take a ping if I know for sure a lot of extra work would be involved in transporting that person. I just don't get paid enough to do it.

In the end, it is all Uber/Lyft's doing. They have created a business model where many times it is more profitable for drivers to cancel and collect a fee, than doing what they are supposed to be doing; driving people to their desired destination. If they adequately compensated drivers for all scenarios they would come up against, the Uber/Lyft experience would be a lot better for everyone involved. But the more they cut driver pay, the worse the experience will be. More and more of the good drivers who would take the time to transport those who need extra care will quit because it is not worth it, and you will be left with the ones who will refuse those pings and use shifty methods to get paid. No other way around it.

So I recommend not expecting anything else but headaches.


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## May H. (Mar 20, 2018)

Merc7186 said:


> Handicaps go to far when you see a car pull into a handicap spot, then driver puts up his handicap tag...then a perfectly able person gets out of the car with no visible disability and walks into a store non chalant.....


Remember -you can't always judge a disabled person by observation. Can you see cancer and heart disease from 40 ft away?


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## BikingBob (May 29, 2018)

Retrained in handling patient transfers? Shoot that women in the stomachs and collect your $5.


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## El Jefe de Hialeah (Jun 11, 2018)

Dude, being nice at Christmas and all but that $3.50!!!


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

jazzapt said:


> And you can turn to us, that is fine. But the point of my post is not to expect anything better from an Uber/Lyft driver than you would a Paratransit driver. An Uber/Lyft driver gets paid pennies, at best, to drive able-bodied people from point A to point B. When you add the extra time and care required to transport a disabled person (trying to find them/ help them in and out of the car/ help stow their equipment, etc...) , many Uber/Lyft drivers will see that as a money loser. And as nice as it would be to do it out of the goodness of our own hearts, most of us are out here to make money, not to lose it. And that takes precedence.
> 
> The bottom line is while some drivers (like me) believe we took the ping and we should follow it through, I don't blame the ones who don't. And I won't take a ping if I know for sure a lot of extra work would be involved in transporting that person. I just don't get paid enough to do it.
> 
> ...


What is your theory on why full time Paratransit operators, who in some cases make $20 something per hour, get 4 weeks paid vacation, full benefits and a retirement plan, offer just as many headaches if not worse?
I think that at the end of the day, whether someone is paid $5 per hour or $500 per hour, many are still going to look for ways of not having to earn it.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Seamus said:


> Most of us will go way out of our way to help someone who has a disability or some handicap. We are mainly good people who will go above and beyond, but when does it go too far!
> 
> Lyft customer tonight starts calling AND texting me right off the bat with specific instructions to get as close as possible to the front door. Pull in and the driveway quickly ends. Only grass near the door. Stop at the edge of the pavement. Call from pax yelling at me that she is disabled and to drive on the @@@@ing grass!
> 
> ...


_______________________

I think you are a hero. Not many would have been so patient. Happy New Year !!
She is her own worse enemy and remembers the days when she was 16 and weighed 110 lbs. 
I like the people who get in the cat and the first thing out of the mouth is, " Lyft drivers are thieves, so I will give you the directions. " ???? You think you are going to sit in my car and call me a thief ?? Not !!!!!


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

trsfa said:


> When they become too unruly and cross the line, mace or taze them immediately.


Interesting.
I wonder what it would look like to taze a quadriplegic ... just a facial grimace?
But then again, what could a quad DO to deserve a taze?


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Caturria said:


> What is your theory on why full time Paratransit operators, who in some cases make $20 something per hour, get 4 weeks paid vacation, full benefits and a retirement plan, offer just as many headaches if not worse?
> I think that at the end of the day, whether someone is paid $5 per hour or $500 per hour, many are still going to look for ways of not having to earn it.


Don't have one as I don't have a ton of insight in the industry. That sounds frustrating. But I will agree that there will always be those people who are on the look out to make money without doing the work.

But I think that is somewhat different from what happens with Uber/Lyft. With Uber/Lyft, there are many times when you make LESS money if you do the work.

In my market, for an Uber/Lyft driver there are times when when an efficient pickup and delivery of an able-bodied person can take almost 20 minutes of your time, or more, and net you $3.75. Transporting a disabled person on the same route can, and most likely will, take up more than 20 minutes and still only net $3.75. Whereas waiting out a 5 minute timer could net the driver $4. The extra $0.25 is not nearly as valuable as the extra time of up to 15 minutes the driver could gain to move on to the next fare.

My point is that Uber/Lyft's fare system and rates are not set up to incentivize good service, particular to the disabled. It's set up to put money in Uber/Lyft's pockets. And they offer no incentive, save the desire to be a good person/citizen or the faint hope of a tip, for a driver to go out of the way and provide the extra care for those pax who need it.

So if you are looking to Uber/Lyft to provide better service than a Paratrasit provider, you may be disappointed more often than not.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

jazzapt said:


> Don't have one as I don't have a ton of insight in the industry. That sounds frustrating. But I will agree that there will always be those people who are on the look out to make money without doing the work.
> 
> But I think that is somewhat different from what happens with Uber/Lyft. With Uber/Lyft, there are many times when you make LESS money if you do the work.
> 
> ...


I've taken Uber about 10 times. I'm waiting to see if I get a bad experience similar to what is discussed here, but so far I've had nothing short of pleasant, helpful drivers who I've given 5 stars and a tip. Then again, this is Canada.
My paratransit rides almost never fail to disappoint. In the same 10 rides, I would get an average of 3 who shuffled me, another 3 who attempted to do so and failed, another 2 who didn't try to shuffle this time but have in the past, 1 who just did their job no more no less, and 1 who was friendly and kind and engaged me in pleasant conversation.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Caturria said:


> rideshare/taxi when that fails.


The cab driver get paid something close to current prices for his efforts. The TNC driver gets paid rates that are forty years out of date.



touberornottouber said:


> Hopefully you have tipped your Uber drivers then? At least $1? The low pay and no tip is part of the reason why many of us hate the short trips and/or the extra work trips.


^^^^^^^^^This; time is money and the TNCs pay far too little of it.^^^^^^^^^^



touberornottouber said:


> If everyone going 4 blocks or needing help getting into the car tipped me just $2 I'd never complain again about these trips. A large part of the blame for this needs to go on the rideshare companies who charge the passenger $7-$8 but pay us only $3 while at the same time discouraging tipping.
> 
> Lyft just offered me a GoGoGrandparent ride . I took this person before and she is nice but she usually doesn't tip and the ride was maybe $4. load the walker, etc for $4. On top of this GoGoGrandparent probably charged her $25 for the ride. I'm sure another driver t
> 
> My point here though is if that ride paid $5 or $6 I almost certainly would have taken it. But the low pay makes it "meh". I don't mind helping others and like people but at the same time I need to pay my bills.


If Uber and Lyft would charge the customer what it costs to provide a service and would pay the drivers some decent money, most of this could be avoided. As the quoted poster states, we must pay our bills. We do not have too much time to spend on each customer.



SatMan said:


> drivers pompous attitudes towards less the prefect riders.


Rendering service unto the "less than perfect riders" requires time (READ: _*money*_). The TNCs pay far too little money.



Caturria said:


> I'll tip no matter what. In such a case I'll tip $3 (on a short ride), or 15% (on a longer ride), whichever is higher. If something unusual happens and it takes longer for them to find and load me, and say the timer actually did expire and they didn't leave, I'll tip considerably higher.


You are a rarity. Most Uber and Lyft customers do not tip at all. Many people who have a handicap are on tight budgets. They can not afford to tip. I actually get that. Unfortunately, again, it is the problem of money. The TNCs pay far too little of it.



Caturria said:


> The ones who accept rides knowing full well they have no intentions of taking them, then get close enough to start the clock and hide for five minutes (or wait for the passenger to cancel to collect a charge for no service) are the underbelly of society and deserve to be inmates.


This is caused by the TNCs refusal to pay what it costs to deliver a service plus a reasonable profit. The driver must make a requisite sum in some manner. If Uber and Lyft are going to play dirty, I refuse to blame the drivers for taking a lesson from the TNCs.



jazzapt said:


> An Uber/Lyft driver gets paid pennies, at best, to drive able-bodied people from point A to point B. When you add the extra time and care required to transport a disabled person (trying to find them/ help them in and out of the car/ help stow their equipment, etc...) , many Uber/Lyft drivers will see that as a money loser. And as nice as it would be to do it out of the goodness of our own hearts, most of us are out here to *make money*, not to lose it. And that *takes precedence*.


 (emphasis added)

Making money is Numero Uno. Everything but _*EVERYTHING*_ else takes second place. This is capitalism.



jazzapt said:


> we took the ping and we should follow it through, I don't blame the ones who don't. And I won't take a ping if I know for sure a lot of extra work would be involved in transporting that person. *I just don't get paid enough to do it.*
> 
> In the end, *it is all Uber/Lyft's doing*. They have created a business model where many times it is more profitable for drivers to cancel and collect a fee, than doing what they are supposed to be doing; driving people to their desired destination. If they adequately compensated drivers for all the more they cut driver pay, the worse the experience will be. More and more of the good drivers who would take the time to transport those who need extra care will quit because it is not worth it


 (emphases added)

^^^^^^^^Read and PAY HEED^^^^^^^^^



El Jefe de Hialeah said:


> Dude, being nice at Christmas and all but *that $3.50!!!*


(emphasis added)

........again, it is the inadequate pay that is to blame........................



jazzapt said:


> But I think that is somewhat different from what happens with Uber/Lyft. With Uber/Lyft, there are many times when you make LESS money if you do the work.
> 
> In my market, for an Uber/Lyft driver there are times when when an efficient pickup and delivery of an able-bodied person can take almost 20 minutes of your time, or more, and net you $3.75. Transporting a disabled person on the same route can, and most likely will, take up more than 20 minutes and still only net $3.75. Whereas waiting out a 5 minute timer could net the driver $4.
> 
> My point is that Uber/Lyft's fare system and rates are not set up to incentivize good service, particular to the disabled.


If they would understand that you can not deliver service in 2019 for 1976 prices, things would be much better.


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## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

If they would understand that you can not deliver service in 2019 for 1976 prices, things would be much better.[/QUOTE]

Tell that to all the drivers


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## Scootergirlct (Jan 4, 2019)

Kudos to you Dude... We are, after all LYFT, not CRANE drivers!!!

PS if we don't get called out for bad behavior, it only gets reinforced. Tough love, man!


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

jazzapt said:


> And you can turn to us, that is fine. But the point of my post is not to expect anything better from an Uber/Lyft driver than you would a Paratransit driver. An Uber/Lyft driver gets paid pennies, at best, to drive able-bodied people from point A to point B. When you add the extra time and care required to transport a disabled person (trying to find them/ help them in and out of the car/ help stow their equipment, etc...) , many Uber/Lyft drivers will see that as a money loser. And as nice as it would be to do it out of the goodness of our own hearts, most of us are out here to make money, not to lose it. And that takes precedence.
> 
> The bottom line is while some drivers (like me) believe we took the ping and we should follow it through, I don't blame the ones who don't. And I won't take a ping if I know for sure a lot of extra work would be involved in transporting that person. I just don't get paid enough to do it.
> 
> ...


How exactly is this Uber or Lyft's doing? I'm not saying these are in any way reputable companies, but drivers knew the prices, knew they would be required to drive disabled people and agreed to do it.


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## Rick N. (Mar 2, 2016)

Seamus said:


> Most of us will go way out of our way to help someone who has a disability or some handicap. We are mainly good people who will go above and beyond, but when does it go too far!
> 
> Lyft customer tonight starts calling AND texting me right off the bat with specific instructions to get as close as possible to the front door. Pull in and the driveway quickly ends. Only grass near the door. Stop at the edge of the pavement. Call from pax yelling at me that she is disabled and to drive on the @@@@ing grass!
> 
> ...


Don't lie, you just did it so you can cop a feel


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## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

Demon said:


> How exactly is this Uber or Lyft's doing? I'm not saying these are in any way reputable companies, but drivers knew the prices, knew they would be required to drive disabled people and agreed to do it.


 What they didn't know is all the shenanigans uber and lift pull on the drivers. FIFO is a joke at most airports.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Demon said:


> How exactly is this Uber or Lyft's doing? I'm not saying these are in any way reputable companies, but drivers knew the prices, knew they would be required to drive disabled people and agreed to do it.


When I first started this gig, there was rarely a ride request that was not economically worth it. And the ones that were not profitable were offset by the many that were.

Over the years since, Uber has found many ways to cut what I earn while they pocketed larger and larger portions of each fare.

It is now to the point that unless a driver strategizes, the unprofitable rides more than cancel out the few ones that are worth it. And if part of that strategy is to avoid giving rides to those with extra needs, it is what it is.

At one time these rides were economically worth it. Uber and Lyft decided to change that. As so they are no longer. Uber and Lyft are the ones to lower the pay enough to make these rides economic losers. Therefore, blame for any riders left out in the cold because of it is on them.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

jazzapt said:


> When I first started this gig, there was rarely a ride request that was not economically worth it. And the ones that were not profitable were offset by the many that were.
> 
> Over the years since, Uber has found many ways to cut what I earn while they pocketed larger and larger portions of each fare.
> 
> ...


None of that addresses what I wrote. If drivers don't like the compensation, they shouldn't be driving.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Demon said:


> None of that addresses what I wrote. If drivers don't like the compensation, they shouldn't be driving.


OR they can strategize in order to get compensated in a satisfactory manner. It's the only way to make a profit.

If pax don't like the way drivers need to work in order to make a profit, find another mode of transportation.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

jazzapt said:


> OR they can strategize in order to get compensated in a satisfactory manner. It's the only way to make a profit.
> 
> If pax don't like the way drivers need to work in order to make a profit, find another mode of transportation.


There is no way to strategize to make enough money, the math will never be there.

It isn't the pax's fault you're bad at math and at some point it should occur to you that when you do illegal things it's going to wind up costing you & other drivers money.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Demon said:


> There is no way to strategize to make enough money, the math will never be there.
> 
> It isn't the pax's fault you're bad at math and at some point it should occur to you that when you do illegal things it's going to wind up costing you & other drivers money.


Wrong on so many accounts.

First of all, no one mentioned doing anything illegal (at least I didn't). If I receive a ping from a rehab hospital and I know most of the payouts from there are minimum fare pax who require extra care, and I decide not to accept it because I know it is a money loser, there is nothing illegal about it. Is it mean? Maybe. But not illegal, and not wrong if my goal is to make money.

Also, you don't know what "enough money" is to everyone. Some think Uber can make them rich. Some want extra cash. I have been doing this for 4 years. I know how much money I take in. I know how much maintenance is on my car. I know what my tax situation is. And I understand my depreciation. Based upon my needs, my strategy allows me to make the money I need to make. Is it an earth shattering amount? No. But it is exactly what I need for what I need it for.

And finally, pax has chosen to use a service that takes advantage of people just like drivers choose to "partner" with a company that takes grossly underpays them. Just like drivers can walk away once they realize they are underpaid, pax can decide not to use Uber if the service is crappy (which more than likely a result of drivers being underpaid). And if they continue, they only have themselves to blame.

You want good, reliable service? Utilize a transportation service that pays their drivers enough money to provide that service. You want cut-rate prices, you get cut-rate service. Simple as that.

All that said, I believe most drivers, including myself, give good service. But my point is you can't EXPECT that at all times when you know full well the drivers are underpaid (and it sounds like you do).


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

jazzapt said:


> Wrong on so many accounts.
> 
> First of all, no one mentioned doing anything illegal (at least I didn't). If I receive a ping from a rehab hospital and I know most of the payouts from there are minimum fare pax who require extra care, and I decide not to accept it because I know it is a money loser, there is nothing illegal about it. Is it mean? Maybe. But not illegal, and not wrong if my goal is to make money.
> 
> ...


First of all you did mention doing something illegal. When you refuse to pick up a disabled person because of their disability, that's illegal.

When you refuse service to someone based on their destination, that's illegal in some cities, so you may want to check your local laws.

Uber & Lyft are public services and the public has a right to use them, so your last excuse just doesn't fly.

I would suggest you start taking some responsibility for your choices and stop blaming other people.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Demon said:


> First of all you did mention doing something illegal. When you refuse to pick up a disabled person because of their disability, that's illegal.
> 
> When you refuse service to someone based on their destination, that's illegal in some cities, so you may want to check your local laws.
> 
> ...


Wow. You really do like to argue for the sake of arguing. "start taking some responsibility for your choices"? Not sure where that comes from, but okay. I have no problem with doing that. But I am not complaining about my choices here.

But I will counter with this. There is no State, City, or County where is it illegal to refuse to accept a ping (ride request). No matter where the ping is coming from. If it were, Uber and Lyft would not put a "Decline" button on their ping. Or they would make pings from certain addresses non-decline-able.

Yes it may be illegal in places to accept a ping, and then cancel when you find out the person is disabled, but I never mentioned doing that. Maybe someone else did, but it wasn't me. I would never do that. But again, THERE IS NOWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE DECLINING A PING IS ILLEGAL, for any reason!

Second, I did not say you do not have right to use Uber and Lyft. Everyone does. No one is arguing that. If fact quite the opposite. I am saying you are free to decide to Uber and Lyft wherever and whenever you like. But Uber and Lyft are PRIVATE companies. And the goal of most private companies is to show they are worthy of your patronage. If they prove not to be but you continue to utilize their services, that is on you.

Uber and Lyft underpay their drivers. And because of that, the service will suffer to one degree or another. That is not me complaining about pay. It is a well known fact if a company is paying people to provide a service, but they are not paying those people enough to provide the service well, the quality of service will decline. True in any company.

It's up to you to decide whether you will suffer the decline and continue to use them. But if you do, again that is on you.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

jazzapt said:


> no one mentioned doing anything illegal (at least I didn't). If I receive a ping from a rehab hospital and I know most of the payouts from there are minimum fare pax who require extra care, and I decide not to accept it because I know it is a money loser, there is nothing illegal about it.





Demon said:


> you did mention doing something illegal. refuse to pick up a disabled person because of their disability, that's illegal. refuse service to someone based on their destination, that's illegal. Uber & Lyft are public services and the public has a right to use them.


If you will not accept a ping because you think that it is a disabled person, that is, in fact illegal. The problem here is _*establishing*_ the discrimination. Please note the choice of words.

To be sure, Uber could decide that you are declining pings because you are discriminating against the disabled and de-activate you. In making that decision, Uber does not need to adhere to the same standard that does a court.

If a disabled person were to take legal action, it would be difficult to do so against an individual driver, especially if all that the driver were doing is declining pings. Usually, the legal action comes against the company as a whole; protestations of "they are independent contractors" notwithstanding (ask me how I know this). If the disabled proceed against the company as a whole, especially if they can have the suit certified as a Class Action, it is far easier to _*establish*_ a claim of "discrimination". What the plaintiffs must do is establish a pattern of "discrimination". The best way to do this is with a series of tests, where you have testers who are a member of the complaining group and another group of testers who are not members of the complaining group. You then demonstrate that the non-complainers received substantially better service than the complainers.

Once the results are in, though, there is another step before going forward. At the Federal level, and, in many cases, at the local level, there _*is*_ the doctrine of "substantial compliance". What this does, in this case, is mitigate what constitutes "discrimination". If the non-disabled is waiting three minutes for a ride to arrive while the disabled waits ten, clearly, there is a disparity. Where the claim of discrimination will fail, though, is that it is possible to argue that ten minutes is not an unreasonably long time to wait for a ride to arrive. If there are consistent waits of twenty minutes, or more, that might be different.

If the plaintiffs can clear the "substantial compliance" hurdle and can establish "discrimination", the doctrine of "burden shifting" then applies. Once the plaintiffs can establish "discrimination", the burden of proof shifts to the defendant to prove that he did not discriminate.

All of the foregoing is time consuming (READ: expensive). it is far less expensive and far simpler for Uber or Lyft to de-activate any driver that either suspects of discriminating. The standards are far lower, as well.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> If you will not accept a ping because you think that it is a disabled person, that is, in fact illegal. The problem here is _*establishing*_ the discrimination. Please note the choice of words.
> 
> To be sure, Uber could decide that you are declining pings because you are discriminating against the disabled and de-activate you. In making that decision, Uber does not need to adhere to the same standard that does a court.
> 
> ...


Fair enough, and I am willing to admit that I was somewhat wrong. But I stand by saying it is not illegal to decline pings. Just the "for any reason" part.

But as you said, the issue here is "is _*establishing*_ the discrimination". There is no way for Uber/Lyft or any government body to determine that if next Tuesday I get a ping from Toby's Rehab Center, and I decline it, the reason I am declining it is due to the fact that I don't want to pick up a disabled person. That's trying to prove intent, what the driver is thinking. The driver does not know the pax is a patient or an employee looking for a ride home. It is hard to prove intent based on a ping (particularly since anything can be on the other side of that ping - we have no idea what it is until we accept it).

Now if I make it a habit? Yes, I can see that. But again it would be hard to prove and I would be surprised if anyone even acted on it unless there were complaints by the rehab center that there have been issues getting rides.

I don't actually get those kind of rides anyway due to where and when I drive (my original point was to discuss why someone might decline those kind of rides if they prove not to be profitable). But I do encounter a similar situation. I am usually looking for early morning airport rides. I have a hospital near my house and every now and then I get pings from there. I always decline because I know it's a local ride and it makes me unavailable for any possible airport runs while I am handling that ride. Been declining those for years. No one has said anything because someone else always grabs the ride.

Now if the hospital complained to Uber that they have problems getting drivers to pick up rides, and Uber decided to review their logs to see who is rejecting the rides, then yes I can see this coming back to me. But I doubt that will ever happen. And even if it did, my intent is because I want airport rides, not because I don't want to pick up someone sick or disabled. Again, when it comes to the law it is about proving intent (I realize Uber/Lyft has their own brand of justice, I am just talking about the law)

My point really is: if I get a ping from a disabled person, and I reject it, I don't believe that is against the law because I have no reason to believe that person is disabled. Now if I do have a reason to believe so, and I reject it on that basis, then I can see it being technically illegal, but very hard to prove.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

It could happen that Uber de-activate the driver for declining a ping or consistently declining pings from certain areas. Remember, Uber can de-activate you for any reason or no reason. As you correctly observe, it _*ain't*_ likely, especially absent a complaint. The odds of a complaint of that nature are higher on Lyft, where even in the Big City, it is not uncommon that there is only one car available in the area.

Where you see a de-activation occur over a single occurrence is when a driver accepts the ping, then cancels, for whatever reason. There have been a few topics posted on these Boards where a driver with his 4,9999999999999999999999999999999 rating and thousands of trips complains that Uber de-activated him for discrimination because he accepted a ping and cancelled it. The hypothetical scenario is that the application notifies the user that the driver cancelled, or it changes the driver and the user assumes that the first driver cancelled. At that point, the user complains and assumes that the first driver discriminated against him 
because of __________________________________. Uber goes with that and de-activates the driver.


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## tc49821 (Oct 26, 2017)

Caturria said:


> How's this for perspective?
> I'm a passenger with a handicap.
> I don't for one minute condone this lady yelling and barking orders at you. That said, the likes of @Andre Benjamin 6000 play a big roll in why the problem exists in the first place.
> I've dealt with thousands of @Andre Benjamin 6000's in my lifetime. People who think the world owes them a living, gift wrapped with a bow and a heart on top. People who think it doesn't matter who they hurt because they're nowhere near as exalted as the almighty lord ME.
> ...


I got a big heart,it sounds cold but he working. He gonna spend a lot of time for $5 or less. I think he wrong,it's just being a good person. I see his side. He should just not charge the rider. Scheming a disabled person out of $3.50 seems shady to me .


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Another interesting thread and some interesting points of view.


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