# Maintenance Costs



## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

My thread about earnings led several to comment about maintenance costs. I think that topic deserves its own thread.

What does it cost to keep your car running?

While there are various "authorities" who offer advice, IMO, their advice is nearly worthless. After all, who / what is "average?"

Consumer Reports can offer some guidance about the reliability of specific cars; note that ratings can vary quite a bit from year to year. For exampke, the 2009 version of my car was the most reliable of any car ever - alas, mine is a 2010, which they gave a modest score.

Personal practice matters. For me, I easily get 100K from mediocre tires, tires the manufacturer expects only 40K from. My easy driving style saves me money.

Otherwise, my car is dead-on reliable. Over 280K, I've replaced an alternator and fuel pump. That's all. I've been religious about periodic maintenance.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Your costs are unique to you and your car. Know what they are, but dont let anyone tell you what they should be

Heres how I look at this now.... I may change my thinking based on more experience

There are maintenance costs and repair costs and they are different. We can predict the maintenance items, like oil and tires and things you should do on a scheduled basis like cooling system flushes and transmission service, but repairs are just a guess . Since I dont like surprises I maintain a savings account for major repairs...and to replace the car when the time comes. ( I spend half my income and save half)

so
gross income less gas and oil = cash flow
then I divide cash flow by 2. one half is paid to the driver (me) and one half goes to a reserve fund


My approach was inspired by the cab company that services the Ft Myers airport. The cab company owns the cars,. Income is split 50/50 The driver gets half and pays for gas. (the driver keeps his tips) The company keeps the other half and insures, maintains, repairs and replaces the cars..


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

oldfart said:


> Your costs are unique to you and your car. Know what they are, but dont let anyone tell you what they should be
> 
> Heres how I look at this now.... I may change my thinking based on more experience
> 
> ...


I agree, I calculate my operating cost the same way. I can predict tires, oil, transmission flush, gas, and other regular maintenance per mile. As for the major stuff that can vary.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

oldfart said:


> Your costs are unique to you and your car. Know what they are, but dont let anyone tell you what they should be
> 
> Heres how I look at this now.... I may change my thinking based on more experience
> 
> ...


I think you and three other drivers in the U.S. maintain a savings account for major repairs.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

1.5xorbust said:


> I think you and three other drivers in the U.S. maintain a savings account for major repairs.


I don't think a part time driver has to think about this stuff Presumably they have another source of income that can handle the big repairs But For is full timers I thing a savings account or good credit is needed. And if I had good credit I probably wouldn't need Uber


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Karen Stein said:


> While there are various "authorities" who offer advice, IMO, their advice is nearly worthless. After all, who / what is "average?"


If you don't value the advice of automobile "authorities" like AAA, why do you value the advice of laymen on an internet message board?


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

oldfart said:


> I don't think a part time driver has to think about this stuff Presumably they have another source of income that can handle the big repairs But For is full timers I thing a savings account or good credit is needed. And if I had good credit I probably wouldn't need Uber


Not good assumptions!

I'm a part timer and I'm preety sure I think about my costs WAY more than the average full timer because I want to make sure it's worth my time. I.e. only drive during high $/hr times.

I put ALL my Uber earnings into a separate bank account which I use to pay for repairs on my two Uber vehicles which get me to and from my real job. I also periodically write myself a check from this account.

The only business expense I pay for from a source outside the special Uber account is gas, and that's because we have a Costco Visa card. In my estimation gas is about half of maintenance/repairs.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

MadTownUberD said:


> Not good assumptions!
> 
> I'm a part timer and I'm preety sure I think about my costs WAY more than the average full timer because I want to make sure it's worth my time. I.e. only drive during high $/hr times.
> 
> ...


It kind of depends on the person as well.
I have friends that drive part time that do not take into account of operating cost. I also have friends that drive full time that don't account for operating cost besides gas as well.


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## unPat (Jul 20, 2016)

MadTownUberD said:


> Not good assumptions!
> 
> I'm a part timer and I'm preety sure I think about my costs WAY more than the average full timer because I want to make sure it's worth my time. I.e. only drive during high $/hr times.
> 
> ...


You are a sheep too .


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

unPat said:


> You are a sheep too .


Whatever that means. Are you one of those guys who doesn't drive anymore but comes on here just to rip on Uber?


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## unPat (Jul 20, 2016)

MadTownUberD said:


> Whatever that means. Are you one of those guys who doesn't drive anymore but comes on here just to rip on Uber?


I do drive for Uber but I say what it's like.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

MadTownUberD said:


> Not good assumptions!
> 
> I'm a part timer and I'm preety sure I think about my costs WAY more than the average full timer because I want to make sure it's worth my time. I.e. only drive during high $/hr times.
> 
> ...


I'm not assuming anything, only saying that in case of a breakdown, someone that has another source of income (or a spare car) isn't hurt as much as someone that depends on Uber for all or most of their income, when/if their car is out of service. And they don't need to be as anal about expenses as us full timers.



Coachman said:


> If you don't value the advice of automobile "authorities" like AAA, why do you value the advice of laymen on an internet message board?


It's not that AAA can't be trusted, I'm sure that they have correctly reported the averages. It's just that average data dosent do me any good.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

unPat said:


> I do drive for Uber but I say what it's like.


I guess I'm supposed to go around with a chip on my shoulder. Guess what? I filed a complaint with Support this morning because the pickup location was wrong. I ended up giving Support a 1* for their response. Hope that makes you happy.



oldfart said:


> I'm not assuming anything, only saying that in case of a breakdown, someone that has another source of income (or a spare car) isn't hurt as much as someone that depends on Uber for all or most of their income, when/if their car is out of service. And they don't need to be as anal about expenses as us full timers.
> 
> It's not that AAA can't be trusted, I'm sure that they have correctly reported the averages. It's just that average data dosent do me any good.


Part timers should be just as anal about expenses, perhaps moreso, because apparently we have other things to do with our time. We need to be constantly deciding whether it's worth driving for another hour or going into the office early. Or going home to sleep. The way I see it full timers don't have much of a choice...they NEED the Uber income so they're willing to stay online longer to pay for rent, a car payment, or a pricey repair.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

MadTownUberD said:


> Part timers should be just as anal about expenses, perhaps moreso, because apparently we have other things to do with our time. We need to be constantly deciding whether it's worth driving for another hour or going into the office early. Or going home to sleep. The way I see it full timers don't have much of a choice...they NEED the Uber income so they're willing to stay online longer to pay for rent, a car payment, or a pricey repair.


Be careful not to confuse full-timer with long-termer. Most full timers burn out just as quickly, if not more so, than part timers.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

Coachman said:


> Be careful not to confuse full-timer with long-termer. Most full timers burn out just as quickly, if not more so, than part timers.


Good point. A temporary (between jobs) full timer literally doesn't care what costs are. He or she needs cash NOW and is willing to use his or her car as a Payday loan. A long termer has settled into a routine and has a good sense of profitability based on years of experience. I'm trying to cram those years of experience into a my cost estimating spreadsheet.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

oldfart said:


> It's not that AAA can't be trusted, I'm sure that they have correctly reported the averages. It's just that average data dosent do me any good.


I doubt many drivers here own cars that are much different from the average. Some drivers will be lucky with few maintenance issues while others will be hit with unforeseen expenses. You're going to fall somewhere along that bell curve. But if you were in the position to have to go out and replace your vehicle, what information would you use to predict your costs... if not for the averages provided by the manufacturers? Miles per gallon. Maintenance. etc? Averages are great for making predictions. Because a driver has driven 150,000 miles maintenance free doesn't mean the next 1,000 are going to be the same.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

MadTownUberD said:


> I put ALL my Uber earnings into a separate bank account which I use to pay for repairs on my two Uber vehicles which get me to and from my real job. I also periodically write myself a check from this account.
> 
> The only business expense I pay for from a source outside the special Uber account is gas, and that's because we have a Costco Visa card. In my estimation gas is about half of maintenance/repairs.


Smartly done on all fronts. Food for thought.
My driving income gets put into my overall budget with no specific goal or expenditure to save toward but instead more of an "oh crap, need more money, guess I have to go on the road" scenario.
I do keep an auto expenses holding account that I replenish when it gets low.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Maitenence costs will vary,


You won't really know your costs until you sell the car.

On the taxi i owned... i never had the full picture on my costs until i sold the car. Just keeping the car on the road for an extra few months reduced my per mile expenses by about 4 cents over the entire 3.5 years.

$XX,000 over 230,000 miles VS $XX over 200,000 miles. That's a 15% difference Miles driven that's entirely within luck. 15% more miles reduces your per mile cost by a large margin.


It also depends on what standards of perfection your going to do.

Replacing your seats every year would probobly be nessisary with cloth seats, going OEM parts, cloth replacements for a toyota will run a pretty penny,

However if you have vinyl or leather seats they might make the entire life of the car.

There's also a great deal of luck involved.

I average about 5 tires a year working full time,

Not 5 sets, 5 tires...

Bad luck can put that at 6, good luck 4..


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

Dammit Mazzacane said:


> Smartly done on all fronts. Food for thought.
> My driving income gets put into my overall budget with no specific goal or expenditure to save toward but instead more of an "oh crap, need more money, guess I have to go on the road" scenario.
> I do keep an auto expenses holding account that I replenish when it gets low.


Yup. I was just at an auto repair shop around the block from my house last night talking to them about fixing my A/C. In front of me there was a really frustrated lady who needed a drive shaft replaced for $1200. I'll bet she didn't have a vehicle maintenance slush fund like you and I do.

Within the past couple of months I put new tires on my Sonata ($600) and new run-flats on my Bimmer ($900), all paid for from my Uber earnings account. Before Uber, we would see these huge, lumpy credit card bills and get really annoyed because of car repairs. Not anymore. Cash flows are smooth in our house!


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## homelesslawnmowers (May 25, 2018)

1st 2 years $1500 in repairs each year

this 1st year ive had no repairs since last july

but shocks & struts time been holding off thats $1000

had 80K miles when i bought it put 80K on in 3 years, 150K in $ payments 40-74+ per ride for over 2 years now 90+% of the time, im a scrrener 10%ar / cr round 20

21mpg $8 per hour round trip gas to airport

$20 wally world oil change pretty much monthly

all 4 tires prob need 4 more before this winter, radiator, radiator cap, fuel pump, all 4 brakes, alternator, battery, wipers, cv joint, power steering pump, radiator flush about year before radiator, transmission service flush filter windshield, few nails & screws 3 tire stem valves tbe $80 each now, 3 bout to be 4 inspections at $15 each, electric door harness, ac service refill .off the top of my head

depreciation not an issue paid 9 for it worth 4 still and about a decade old

tint all around with sun strip, remote start but those mostly cosmetic for me...

assuming most was original repairs, prob could use a paint job and a small dent fix thall be 1000 but i literally spend maybe $20 washing & vacuuming per year so that'll make it look brand new one day

spent about $300 on smart tint & supplies to make it work police had me tear off twice no ticket but they pay for themselves every 3 days of tolls thats an extra 20-70 a day, sell about 1 every other month, also sell dispensary sealed weed to save on those trips, full unopened bottles of grey goose, items hotels airports gouge on since its mostly biz travelers, filled up sd cards, flash drives, amazon tablets, they have a price list in back & square bump or swipe payments that brings in about 200 a month, tablets go fast round Christmas, pay $35 sell forr $50 or fully loaded with 128micro sd for $100...

2 tickets none with points were 200

1st 3 months was doing 20-30 rides a day to learn area new city, now dont make much less doing 2-3, busy months may do 5-7 there's about 4 months where it booms, pretty much ignore all quests, promos, boosts, never bother with surge, opted out of pool first day, never did eats, never drove past 7:30pm, ignore all rides 7+ minutes away now its 5+, ignore all 4.7s & most 5s, 90% of rides are from couch or bed as i picked homebase on most efficient profitable uber ride, airport and back home to my queue while the cockroaches circle, idle to stay warm or cool....

so least $5000 or just figured about an extra $150 a month but since uber a scam only pay insurance 2 months a year renewel time & expiration time so that $200 a month covers maintenance, $400 a year for insurance woohoo i kid i kid of course ; )

uber has effected my wake & bake schedule boohoo no more being high for squawk box or first take, if i get least 2 airports by 7 ill start my wake & bake no rush hours for me just a ghost car, if only 1 ill wait till round noon & call it a day....so they save me $ on my weed habit but its only 100 an oz now lol joint a day all i need...


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

homelesslawnmowers said:


> 1st 2 years $1500 in repairs each year
> 
> this 1st year ive had no repairs since last july
> 
> ...


That is one of the more interesting posts I've read in quite a while.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

1.5xorbust said:


> That is one of the more interesting posts I've read quite a while.


I hear you. The summary seems to be "works for me".


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## homelesslawnmowers (May 25, 2018)

MadTownUberD said:


> I hear you. The summary seems to be "works for me".


96% fail for a reason used to feel bad for em but oh well, 1st rate cuts i went xl only for almost a year, i was behind original suoerbowl strike that got onnational news, only went back to x when they added rematch, which now i dont bother to use because they took away geo filters so i just head back home, 1 airport worth literally 10-20 rides, 1 takes an hourish round trip, the latter 8-10 hours, gets worse by the month, most aren't in my situation relocating to take advantage of green rush so no lease & used it to learn area & picked the best spot for homebase, always kept my east coast time so when i was in vegas people looked at me crazy going to bed at 9pm lol but i have 3 hours where everyone was still sleep or just getting home to trade, up at 4am without the alarm but so many roaches about 1.5 years ago set alarm for 3 turn app on treat it as a snooze might get 1 in 5 min might be an hour, alreay had an XL vehicle, vegas filled up maybe once every 2 months fill up weekly or bi weekly now, 1st 90 days 3 times a week at $35-$40 now its a $52 fill up, have no clue how others make it since i cut every corner i can most dont take toll route so im getting $20+ per trip than them oh wait see 1st line by design 96% dont


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

homelesslawnmowers said:


> 96% fail for a reason used to feel bad for em but oh well, 1st rate cuts i went xl only for almost a year, i was behind original suoerbowl strike that got onnational news, only went back to x when they added rematch, which now i dont bother to use because they took away geo filters so i just head back home, 1 airport worth literally 10-20 rides, 1 takes an hourish round trip, the latter 8-10 hours, gets worse by the month, most aren't in my situation relocating to take advantage of green rush so no lease & used it to learn area & picked the best spot for homebase, always kept my east coast time so when i was in vegas people looked at me crazy going to bed at 9pm lol but i have 3 hours where everyone was still sleep or just getting home to trade, up at 4am without the alarm but so many roaches about 1.5 years ago set alarm for 3 turn app on treat it as a snooze might get 1 in 5 min might be an hour, alreay had an XL vehicle, vegas filled up maybe once every 2 months fill up weekly or bi weekly now, 1st 90 days 3 times a week at $35-$40 now its a $52 fill up, have no clue how others make it since i cut every corner i can most dont take toll route so im getting $20+ per trip than them oh wait see 1st line by design 96% dont


That's one of the more interesting posts I've read in quite some time.


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## homelesslawnmowers (May 25, 2018)

1.5xorbust said:


> That's one of the more interesting posts I've read in quite some time.





















live by the #uberbible
dont provide coerced unpaid free labor it fits the defintion of slavery

$2 after gas is what you gave a child in the 80s to deliver trash to the curb or a server to deliver a plate/bottle 50 feet, someone to deliver a 2 pound pizza, not something you give a human being to drive 1-5+ miles pick up 100-500+ pounds of anonymous school shooters, people with 20 duis(drunks) felons, robbers, rapists, people that actually have the nerve & audacity to not tip or complain about 1965-1985 cab rates & who knows what else & deliver it 1-5 miles

its beyond absurd theres a reason poor people don't have private drivers & chauffers

there's a reason cabs have partitions & its not to protect riders lol

share spread make your own participate or dont

theyll never sticky a strike in every city & main page here, they profit off drivers misery just like uber referring your competition & ads on vomit stories they not on your side, would take them minutes, post pics on all ubet stories on popular sites, in comment sections on twitter....

or dont
ill ride the ponzi till it crumbles or deactivated and then just buy an account online or locally & offer a cut, john gotti respects earners as soon as you realize youre working for organized crime youll be able to profit, people post here i dont see em on other sites, check dkhos twitter i post fliers there when bored lol


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

MadTownUberD said:


> Within the past couple of months I put new tires on my Sonata ($600) and new run-flats on my Bimmer ($900), all paid for from my Uber earnings account. Before Uber, we would see these huge, lumpy credit card bills and get really annoyed because of car repairs. Not anymore. Cash flows are smooth in our house!


I do this:
Step 1: Put auto repair on credit card. Reap any associated travel or cash back rewards.
Step 2: Pay related credit card expenditure from auto expenses account.
Step 3: Accumulate reward kickback.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

If I drive 15k miles per year, the expected cost of my 2015 Mazda3 for the coming year is:

Depreciation: $1,159
Taxes and Fees: $178
Financing: $306
Fuel: $1,392
Insurance: $702
Maintenance: $648
Repairs: $549

Total: $4934
Total / 15,000 miles = $0.3289 per mile.

Next year depreciation will decrease but maintenance and repairs will increase. 
Source of data: https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

bsliv said:


> If I drive 15k miles per year, the expected cost of my 2015 Mazda3 for the coming year is:
> 
> Depreciation: $1,159
> Taxes and Fees: $178
> ...


Nice link! Too bad it doesn't go back far enough in model years.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Watch those mileage assumptions!

Driving Uber full time can easily put 40,000 miles on your car every year.


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> Watch those mileage assumptions!
> 
> Driving Uber full time can easily put 40,000 miles on your car every year.


You obviously haven't driven for Uber on a 30 mile lat/long island! It's hard as heck to get 12k let alone 40k


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

MadTownUberD said:


> Too bad it doesn't go back far enough in model years.


Get a newer car! (just don't use it for rideshare)



Karen Stein said:


> Watch those mileage assumptions!


Yep, that's a catch, but mostly for depreciation. The maintenance should be accurate. Maintenance is usually performed on a mileage basis (change oil @ 10k miles, 30k service at 30k miles, etc.). My maintenance of $648 would be accurate for my car between 45k and 60k miles. I'd think the repair total is also mileage based. Fuel is definitely mileage based. Taxes, fees, and insurance are time based. Depreciation is based on both time and mileage and makes assumptions on condition based on the age and use. Depreciation can be more accurately calculated using kbb.com for drivers that deviate from 15,000 miles per year.

If one uses their Uber car for personal use, insurance, financing, taxes and fees should probably not be included in the cost to drive for Uber. Those are costs that would be incurred without Uber so they are personal costs.

If I dedicated my car to 100% Uber, my costs to drive would be about $0.33 per mile during the 45k - 60k miles period. Removing the personal costs drops the cost to drive to $0.2529 per mile. New, this Mazda goes for a bit over $20k. It gets 40/30/33 mpg (highway/city/combined). Its a fairly reliable as far as repairs go. Maintenance is inexpensive compared to a lot of other cars. Its a cheap car to operate.

MIT estimates the typical Uber car costs $0.30 per mile to operate. Uber came up with a similar figure. The IRS estimates a new $32,000 car costs ~$0.55 per mile for the first 5 years at 15,000 miles per year. I believe these estimates.

Of course, everyone's situation is different. One may do their own maintenance and repairs and save a bunch (but costs personal time and creates busted knuckles). Some may have a lemon and repair costs will be higher. Some may skimp on maintenance (but that may add to repair costs later). Some may have a car that no longer depreciates (but repair costs by then will be high).

Assuming 20 mph, my cost to drive is $6.60 per hour. At 25 mph, it goes to $8.25 per hour.
Assuming 20 mph, 2 rides per hour (5 miles and 15 min per ride), half dead miles, my gross in Las Vegas would be $13.125 per hour.
With these assumptions, my net would be $6.525 per hour.

I have some experience calculating values. I've been a licensed appraiser for 25 years. I frequently create Operating Income Statements. I deal mostly with real property but the theory is the same for both real and personal property used to generate an income.



Grahamcracker said:


> You obviously haven't driven for Uber on a 30 mile lat/long island! It's hard as heck to get 12k let alone 40k


I thought all the cars out there melted into the lava.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> Watch those mileage assumptions!
> 
> Driving Uber full time can easily put 40,000 miles on your car every year.


I've been doing this 5 months and put 34000 miles on the car. My budgeting assumes 75000 miles a year


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

oldfart said:


> I've been doing this 5 months and put 34000 miles on the car. My budgeting assumes 75000 miles a year


When I'm Ubering full-time I can easily put 1,500mi/week. I'm in DFW with a lot of long highway trips.


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