# Any ants afraid that with the new money for IRS tax enforcement, they might get caught cheating? Are you going to be more careful?



## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

IRS gets $80B to ‘rebuild’ its capacity under Senate reconciliation deal | Federal News Network


The budget reconciliation package announced Wednesday night by Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) would give the IRS $80 billion over the next 10 years…




federalnewsnetwork.com


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

The IRS is incompetent. They literally cannot process the tax returns of the American tax payers. Postal Service can barely get the mail delivered in a timely fashion or they simply don't care if they do it in a timely fashion or not. I don't think throwing more money at any of these agencies is the answer.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

> “Every year, hardworking American families pay their taxes on time while wealthy millionaires and billionaires avoid paying the taxes they owe to the federal government. The IRS needs resources to tackle this challenge,” the summary states.


Assuming this is accurate, I'm not concerned. They don't need my $500.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

They are not just coming for "Ants" my friend. They are coming for cockroaches, spiders, mice, and the family dog. Just another hidden form of a tax increase.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (7 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> Assuming this is accurate, I'm not concerned. They don't need my $500.


It's not accurate and simply an attack on the rich to earn brownie points with the poor type political party play. Biden sucks and they are rolling the ball of misinformation trying to win back voters.

The rich pay loads of taxes, but they get the best tax advice and donate a lot, tax write offs etc. that are IRS and law created.

For instance donating a lot saves the government from having to support charities directly thus saves effort. This makes it appear the rich are paying less, just less in taxes but still paying their share trust me.

Notice a new building at the local college campus dedicated to "so and so"? Now you know how it got there, tax write off. ,😁

The problem with having wealth is it's too much to have stuffed under ones mattress or in a bank box. So everything is on record and being accounted for, reported to IRS.

That local bartender pocketing $300-$400 a night in tips without reporting it is the real crook. 😆

Uber drivers? We hardly make any cash tips, usually on the meter as many pax don't carry cash.

But I do have a tip jar/safe at home, whatever makes it into my shirt pocket and into the jar gets reported.

It's really minor amount and then only like 12% tax rate. Chump change to the IRS. So I don't worry about it.


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

the real change is on venmo, paypal uber etc, now anyone who didnt report threshold used to be 20k, now its 600$ so anyone thats cheating cant anymore, its too difficult and not worth the stress.


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## ChicagoHeat12 (May 6, 2015)

Heisenburger said:


> Assuming this is accurate, I'm not concerned. They don't need my $500.


You’d be surprised. Government folks are lazy. They love low hanging fruit.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Another scary thought for many is that they will go back a few years to where they already have all the data to start reprocessing.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

dnlbaboof said:


> the real change is on venmo, paypal uber etc, now anyone who didnt report threshold used to be 20k, now its 600$ so anyone thats cheating cant anymore, its too difficult and not worth the stress.


Which proves that Democrats love regulating the shit outta businesses and love taxing the poor. You buy a piece of exercise equipment for $750 dollars. You get tired of it and sell it on Ebay for $600. Ebay is now mandated to send you a 1099, and you now have to prove to the IRS that you lost money on the deal.
_“Tax the Rich” _is the Dems favorite campaign speech when chasing after low-information voters. Those 1000s of revenue enforcement seekers being hired by Biden are going after the poor, because you just got “rich” if somebody gave you $600. 😏


ChicagoHeat12 said:


> You’d be surprised. Government folks are lazy. They love low hanging fruit.


Correct. 
All that mileage deduction declared for a year?…some IRS lackey simply prints a form letter and sends it in the mail giving you a limited amount of time to provide “detailed records” of each & every trip involved in a business transaction — every trip requires a date, start mileage, ending mileage, purpose of trip, & vehicle used. Simply writing your start & stop mileage when you leave the driveway and return home lacks the detail the IRS can & will demand. And If you can’t provide detailed information in timely fashion, the IRS will disallow the write off for that year and you will pay the tax plus penalties & interest that’s retroactive from the time when the tax was originally owed, as well as open an investigation on the other 10 years you’ve been filing taxes. Hardly “chump change” when you factor in the millions of lazy Uber drivers who fail to maintain proper records. The IRS knows they’re out there, that why Biden is building up his “Build Back Better” team. 😆


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


> provide “detailed records” of each & every trip involved in a business transaction — every trip requires a date, start mileage, ending mileage, purpose of trip, & vehicle used.


It's relatively trivial to create these logs from scratch. If I'm ever subject to an audit based on my mileage I can create one in less than a day. They would have a hell of a time proving that what I submit is incorrect.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


> millions of lazy Uber drivers


If they really wanted to do this they could have already done it by now. They don't need an army of agents to send form letters to every driver.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

The IRS might be able to get caught up with that money if they spend it right. Increasing the number of audits?

LOL.. sure...

get caught up so they arn't months and months behind?

I _hope_


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> It's relatively trivial to create these logs from scratch. If I'm ever subject to an audit based on my mileage I can create one in less than a day. They would have a hell of a time proving that what I submit is incorrect.


🤣 Said nobody ever that got popped...
When your records are audited three years down the road, you'll scramble to create logs from "scratch," totally unaware that the IRS has subpoena powers to pull records from different sources to verify what you provided. For example, they can subpoena your banking records, and there'll be that record that shows you made a personal purchase at a Nike shoe store, when you claimed to the IRS you were on the other side of town that day scratching out a few Uber rides. Then there'll be that purchase that shows you paid for an oil change on such & such a date, and when the IRS subpoenas that auto service record, it shows that the odometer recorded on the service record is nowhere close to the odometer you scratched out that day and gave to the IRS. Then there'll be that log you scratched out that shows you were providing rides to pax in Boner Town on such & such a day, when your banking records shows you purchased fuel & food out of town because when you were scratching out your log sheet in a day, you forgot you were enjoying that day off visiting grandma or taking the kids to Disneyland.
Then of course there's that data base of all your GPS records & waybills that Uber is required to maintain and hand over to the IRS that will be nowhere close to those records you scratched out in a day and provided to the IRS...try scratching & matching those records in a day.


Heisenburger said:


> If they really wanted to do this they could have already done it by now. They don't need an army of agents to send form letters to every driver.


The lackeys print the letters. The army of agents are there to make your life a living hell, and Biden just got billions more in funding from a Democrat controlled congress to do just that, with the promise to extract "one trillion dollars more" from non-compliant taxpayers.
The IRS is labeled as a "super creditor," meaning they have the power to close your business, confiscate your property, and seize your bank accounts. The IRS is also immune from bankruptcy proceedings you might decide to file. When they find out you lied about one thing, they'll put their iron teeth on and make you provide records for 10 year...try creating that from "scratch" in a day. "Rich" people have accountants & CPAs to provide to provide the documentation and answer the tough questions. Poor people crack under pressure, plead mercy, and beg for a payment plan with high interest & penalties tacked on to it. The job of the enforcer is to "turn bucks"... and the highest percentage of audits do exactly that.
Ya know, it's really stupid not to properly record your business trips. When you're busy Ubering, I agree it's a pita to pencil in each & every detail on each & every trip, but their are apps that will do this for you. _"Swipe left for business miles, swipe right for personal miles," _and a digital record that monitored your date, time, and GPS, is stored that satisfy the IRS requirements. There's some apps you can try out first on a free trial; for example free 20 trips a month, then a 5 dollar monthly fee if you need more recording. The IRS requires "clear, precise, detailed" mileage records, so why be a rebel about it when an app makes your life so much easier?...the mileage deduction is one of the most generous offerings allowed by the IRS, and some of these Uber drivers are paying no taxes by properly utilizing this deduction.
That trillion dollars Biden plans to recap is going to come from the fools that don't do it proper...
Good luck!


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


> 🤣 Said nobody ever that got popped...
> When your records are audited three years down the road, you'll scramble to create logs from "scratch," totally unaware that the IRS has subpoena powers to pull records from different sources to verify what you provided. For example, they can subpoena your banking records, and there'll be that record that shows you made a personal purchase at a Nike shoe store, when you claimed to the IRS you were on the other side of town that day scratching out a few Uber rides. Then there'll be that purchase that shows you paid for an oil change on such & such a date, and when the IRS subpoenas that auto service record, it shows that the odometer recorded on the service record is nowhere close to the odometer you scratched out that day and gave to the IRS. Then there'll be that log you scratched out that shows you were providing rides to pax in Boner Town on such & such a day, when your banking records shows you purchased fuel & food out of town because when you were scratching out your log sheet in a day, you forgot you were enjoying that day off visiting grandma or taking the kids to Disneyland.
> Then of course there's that data base of all your GPS records & waybills that Uber is required to maintain and hand over to the IRS that will be nowhere close to those records you scratched out in a day and provided to the IRS...try scratching & matching those records in a day.
> 
> ...


You have a wonderful imagination.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Uber's Guber said:


> 🤣 Said nobody ever that got popped...
> When your records are audited three years down the road, you'll scramble to create logs from "scratch," totally unaware that the IRS has subpoena powers to pull records from different sources to verify what you provided. For example, they can subpoena your banking records, and there'll be that record that shows you made a personal purchase at a Nike shoe store, when you claimed to the IRS you were on the other side of town that day scratching out a few Uber rides. Then there'll be that purchase that shows you paid for an oil change on such & such a date, and when the IRS subpoenas that auto service record, it shows that the odometer recorded on the service record is nowhere close to the odometer you scratched out that day and gave to the IRS. Then there'll be that log you scratched out that shows you were providing rides to pax in Boner Town on such & such a day, when your banking records shows you purchased fuel & food out of town because when you were scratching out your log sheet in a day, you forgot you were enjoying that day off visiting grandma or taking the kids to Disneyland.
> Then of course there's that data base of all your GPS records & waybills that Uber is required to maintain and hand over to the IRS that will be nowhere close to those records you scratched out in a day and provided to the IRS...try scratching & matching those records in a day.
> 
> ...


Your point is well taken. Basically that's the whole point of hiring all these extra workers is to give them the manpower to be extra petty and go over every little thing with a microscope in order to get that gotcha moment. The poster that made the "Go after the low hanging fruit" comment was correct. The everyday Joe will get hit the hardest. Big business can defend themselves and cover their tracks much easier. This is just a away to turn everyday citizens upside down and shake out and extra change out your pockets to pay for this wasteful spending.


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

Why do people vote for biden, he’s one of the most authoritarian warmongering presidents ever…….makes one miss Obama…..or even trump….I would have preferred Bernie at this point…..I don’t think he’d be trying to start a world war at least……now selling used items on eBay is a pain…..so will be all the useless audits…


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Your point is well taken. Basically that's the whole point of hiring all these extra workers is to give them the manpower to be extra petty and go over every little thing with a microscope in order to get that gotcha moment. The poster that made the "Go after the low hanging fruit" comment was correct. The everyday Joe will get hit the hardest. Big business can defend themselves and cover their tracks much easier. This is just a away to turn everyday citizens upside down and shake out and extra change out your pockets to pay for this wasteful spending.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> whole point of hiring all these extra workers is to give them the manpower to be extra petty and go over every little thing with a microscope in order to get that gotcha moment.


Yet that's not what the article states. You're really reading into it.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

Uber's Guber said:


> Which proves that Democrats love regulating the shit outta businesses and love taxing the poor. You buy a piece of exercise equipment for $750 dollars. You get tired of it and sell it on Ebay for $600. Ebay is now mandated to send you a 1099, and you now have to prove to the IRS that you lost money on the deal.


I agree that this will cause the value of used items to plummet. That said, a receipt for anything of value from a regular retail transaction should be kept for insurance. The $600 limit is far too low; $6000 would be much better.



Uber's Guber said:


> Correct.
> All that mileage deduction declared for a year?…some IRS lackey simply prints a form letter and sends it in the mail giving you a limited amount of time to provide “detailed records” of each & every trip involved in a business transaction — every trip requires a date, start mileage, ending mileage, purpose of trip, & vehicle used. Simply writing your start & stop mileage when you leave the driveway and return home lacks the detail the IRS can & will demand. And If you can’t provide detailed information in timely fashion, the IRS will disallow the write off for that year and you will pay the tax plus penalties & interest that’s retroactive from the time when the tax was originally owed, as well as open an investigation on the other 10 years you’ve been filing taxes. Hardly “chump change” when you factor in the millions of lazy Uber drivers who fail to maintain proper records. The IRS knows they’re out there, that why Biden is building up his “Build Back Better” team. 😆


Is there a way to get documentation from U/L of where/when pick ups & drop-offs are? A drive to the first pickup and from the last pickup to the ant's residence and the distance between subsequent rides could be set up in a nice spreadsheet file. If not, then simply "take a best guess" - the IRS would have to prove that you are lying (impossible unless U/L supplies them with this information), or otherwise that what you are doing is unreasonable (also impossible). While I was getting THE CHEESE, I carefully entered the day & E-mail address for every job I had applied for - of course, my E-mail was something to the effect of: "I haven't worked W-2 for anyone in almost 2 decades, I have high-cost health conditions, and the only reason I am applying is so that I stay in compliance to receive my unemployment benefit; that said, if interested, I can send my old resume" (nobody asked for the resume ), just in case I got audited.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

dnlbaboof said:


> Why do people vote for biden, he’s one of the most authoritarian warmongering presidents ever……


You should seek psychiatric attention.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

Heisenburger said:


> It's relatively trivial to create these logs from scratch. If I'm ever subject to an audit based on my mileage I can create one in less than a day. They would have a hell of a time proving that what I submit is incorrect.


Another easy way to do this is to simply take a photo of the odometer at the end of every day of hustling, and presume that any extra mileage from U/L records was done to get to/from the hustling start/end locations or home. Simply save the image file (with the date), and then if asked, send over the image files and let the IRS agent deal with coming up with xer own calculation.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

The only thing all need to worry about is that stupid $600 reporting 1099 law...square paypal. All. 
Just cover your ass. If you do $5000 per year in rides on a cash app. Report it at tax time. They will catch up.it may be 3 years. But you cannot hide from irs.
Same with the jokers who got $800 a week from un. And worked the whole time. They are screwed in near future. But if you are dying or going to jail a long time . Nothing matters I guess


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## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> You should seek psychiatric attention.


With a president Like Biden, could you blame me?


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Yet that's not what the article states. You're really reading into it.


This has been in the works since last year. It's nothing but a cash grab. Your being told "Dont worry we are only going after the rich." If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. Make that two bridges.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

> Spoiler: Don't look here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tax Compliance: Trends of IRS Audit Rates and Results for Individual Taxpayers by Income


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


> a limited amount of time to provide “detailed records” of each & every trip involved in a business transaction — every trip requires a date, start mileage, ending mileage, purpose of trip, & vehicle used. Simply writing your start & stop mileage when you leave the driveway and return home lacks the detail the IRS can & will demand.


This is misleading, at best. Example: when I start the day's work, I start the tracker. When I'm done with the day's work, I stop the tracker. That's a really long trip of 80-250 miles, but it's 100% business. There's absolutely *nothing* in the business mileage deductions code that requires each one of the 10 to 30 trips I take daily and repositioning miles in between to be logged as discrete entries. Nothing.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

Atavar said:


> Another scary thought for many is that they will go back a few years to where they already have all the data to start reprocessing.


They can't implement the current law for actions in the past, as that would be against due process _ex post facto_. In any case, the burden of proof becomes much more difficult after 3 years from the date of the filing.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> They can't implement the current law for actions in the past, as that would be against due process _ex post facto_.


Yeah, so many Chicken Little commenters here. They should save the drama for their mama.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Uber's Guber said:


> When your records are audited three years down the road, you'll scramble to create logs from "scratch," totally unaware that the IRS has subpoena powers to pull records from different sources to verify what you provided. For example, they can subpoena your banking records, and there'll be that record that shows you made a personal purchase at a Nike shoe store, when you claimed to the IRS you were on the other side of town that day scratching out a few Uber rides.


Yes, they can do this. But is it worth the manpower just to disallow an Uber driver's mileage deduction? When I think "low hanging fruit," I'm not thinking about the driver that has a fraudulent mileage record that could be disproven by subpoenaing other records. I'm thinking about the driver that says "What mileage log?" when you ask for his mileage log. That is low hanging fruit. It takes very little resources to send out a bunch of form letters requesting mileage logs and then disallow the mileage deduction for anybody that doesn't reply with a log. What you described takes a lot more manpower, and I question whether the return is high enough for the IRS to bother with that.



ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Basically that's the whole point of hiring all these extra workers is to give them the manpower to be extra petty and go over every little thing with a microscope in order to get that gotcha moment.


The IRS is barely functional right now. It is all that they can do just to process tax returns, let alone going after gotcha moments. Ask anybody that works with the IRS on a regular basis (such as UberTaxPro if he were still here). The agency is a mess. Additional staffing was needed just to right the ship. Maybe they will go beyond just righting the ship and become extra petty, but the first step is just getting the IRS to the point where they can satisfy the very basics of what they are supposed to be doing.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> Additional staffing was needed just to right the ship. Maybe they will go beyond just righting the ship and become extra petty, but the first step is just getting the IRS to the point where they can satisfy the very basics of what they are supposed to be doing.


You sure like to paint a rosy picture. Biden didn’t just invest billions of your tax dollars into the IRS to make your life more satisfying. Biden’s own words was to bring taxpayers into compliance by increasing the enforcement arm of the IRS. Biden expects to recap trillions from the added oversight by disallowing write offs and tacking on penalties & interest.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


> You sure like to paint a rosy picture. Biden didn’t just invest billions of your tax dollars into the IRS to make your life more satisfying. Biden’s own words was to bring taxpayers into compliance by increasing the enforcement arm of the IRS. Biden expects to recap trillions from the added oversight by disallowing write offs and tacking on penalties & interest.


Biden isn't authorized to draft legislation. Remember from civics classes the separation of powers and checks and balances in the government. Any monies used are merely to enforce current legislation from Congress. Gripe about your congressional representatives.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


> Biden didn’t just invest billions of your tax dollars into the IRS to make your life more satisfying. Biden’s own words


Trying your best to get the thread moved to the other forum?


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Biden isn't authorized to draft legislation. Remember from civics classes the separation of powers and checks and balances in the government. Any monies used are merely to enforce current legislation from Congress. Gripe about your congressional representatives.


Have you ever heard of a president refusing to sign a bill that he didn't like? Of course you have. Doesn't matter who passes the legislation it still requires a signature which means your approvable of it but what do I know. 🤷‍♂️


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## thepukeguy (10 mo ago)

Say anything bad about the pedo you’ll just get a bunch of high iq stupid people brown nosing the Stalinist wannabes. Just keep your head down and do your best to avoid their wrath.

The new IRS stuff is awesome. Government in general is amazing and should have absolute control over our lives. We are but sheep in need of this God given shepherd.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> Biden isn't authorized to draft legislation. Remember from civics classes the separation of powers and checks and balances in the government. Any monies used are merely to enforce current legislation from Congress. Gripe about your congressional representatives.


This piece of shit legislation passed by the Democrat-controlled Congress that was on Biden’s “Build Back Better” wish-list. Biden raced to sign it. Biden’s _building back bigger_ that enforcement team of IRS enforcement team that’s going fishing after all you small fry that didn’t bother to properly document your mileage deductions. 😆


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Larry Ludlow joked on Fox Business today that the only people that will be hurt by this bill are the middle class and Uber driver's. His exact words. Then I started thinking maybe he is not joking. 😫


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> Have you ever heard of a president refusing to sign a bill that he didn't like? Of course you have. Doesn't matter who passes the legislation it still requires a signature which means your approvable of it but what do I know. 🤷‍♂️


I'm confused why you're confused. Maybe this will clarify:

*



Three Branches of Government

Click to expand...

*


> Our federal government has three parts. They are the Executive, (President and about 5,000,000 workers) Legislative (Senate and House of Representatives) and Judicial (Supreme Court and lower Courts). The President of the United States administers the Executive Branch of our government. The President *enforces the laws* that the Legislative Branch (Congress) makes. The President is elected by United States citizens, 18 years of age and older, who vote in the presidential elections in their states. These votes are tallied by states and form the Electoral College system. States have the number of electoral votes which equal the number of senators and representatives they have. It is possible to have the most popular votes throughout the nation and NOT win the electoral vote of the Electoral College. The Legislative part of our government is called Congress. Congress *makes our laws*. Congress is divided into 2 parts. One part is called the Senate. There are 100 Senators--2 from each of our states. Another part is called the House of Representatives. Representatives meet together to discuss ideas and decide if these ideas (bills) should become laws. There are 435 Representatives. The number of representatives each state gets is determined by its population. Some states have just 2 representatives. Others have as many as 40. Both senators and representatives are elected by the eligible voters in their states. The Judicial part of our federal government includes the Supreme Court and 9 Justices. They are special judges who *interpret laws* according to the Constitution. These justices only hear cases that pertain to issues related to the Constitution. They are the highest court in our country. The federal judicial system also has lower courts located in each state to hear cases involving federal issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Uber's Guber said:


> going fishing after all you small fry that didn’t bother to properly document your mileage deductions. 😆


I welcome them. I track once daily every work day. I welcome any challenge because I'm bulletproof. Free sample:


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> I welcome them. I track once daily every work day. I welcome any challenge because I'm bulletproof. Free sample:


That is very far from bulletproof. This has been kicked around for so many years I don’t even have the energy to debate it anymore.

However, it’s called a “mileage“ log. Listing your daily mileage expense with no odometer readings is a hundred miles away from being ”bulletproof“. It’s actually pretty shaky at best. That’s also not to say it couldn’t be accepted, it’s up to the discretion of the agent reviewing it.

It’s too easy to do it in a manner that actually is ”bulletproof“. It may be excessive but a simple app like “TripLog” that I’ve been using for many years captures each start/stop odometer and addresses.

I actually couldn’t care less what anyone thinks. I’m one of the few drivers on the forum that actually had to submit a mileage log as part of a mail audit. I simply printed out my “TripLog” mileage log and submitted all 327 pages. It was “accepted as submitted“.

Will they accept something less? Maybe. I have helped three UP members in the last two years who received requests for their mileage logs. Myself and @UberTaxPro have posted court cases that may be considered binding precedent Where less than thorough mileage logs have been accepted. I’m not posting them all over again but a search can find them.

However, you are severely kidding yourself if you think a mileage log with no actual odometer readings, or at the very least “mileage” is referenced is “bulletproof“, I hope no one listens to you and follows suite.

Tax Law is upside down in comparison to criminal law. It’s actually pretty easy and discretionary for them to disallow your mileage log as being insufficient which then disallows your entire mileage expense deductions resulting in a whopper of a tax bill. Unlike other law, the burden of proof is on the filer (meaning you) to justify/show proof of your deductions.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Seamus said:


> That is very far from bulletproof. This has been kicked around for so many years I don’t even have the energy to debate it anymore.
> 
> However, it’s called a “mileage“ log. Listing your daily mileage expense with no odometer readings is a hundred miles away from being ”bulletproof“. It’s actually pretty shaky at best. That’s also not to say it couldn’t be accepted, it’s up to the discretion of the agent reviewing it.
> 
> ...


That's cool. However, I've read the tax code on it. It simply doesn't require per trip/customer entries. Daily mileage is specified as sufficient. The app I use meets that minimum. I have no qualms hiring an attorney if they want to play games. I'll win it too.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Seamus said:


> However, you are severely kidding yourself if you think a mileage log with no actual odometer readings, or at the very least “mileage” is referenced is “bulletproof“, I hope no one listens to you and follows suite.


Please help us all by quoting the specific part of the tax code that supports what you're alleging. I've started it for you by supplying the starting pages:






Topic No. 510 Business Use of Car | Internal Revenue Service


Topic No. 510 Business Use of Car




www.irs.gov










Topic No. 305 Recordkeeping | Internal Revenue Service


Topic No. 305 Recordkeeping




www.irs.gov


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Seamus said:


> However, it’s called a “mileage“ log. Listing your daily mileage expense with no odometer readings is a hundred miles away from being ”bulletproof“.


Mileage isn't equal to odometer though, if that's what you were implying with the quote. Mileage is literally a count of miles independent of method used to calculate the miles (like start and end on odometer).

*



Does the IRS require odometer readings?

Click to expand...

*


> It is a myth that the IRS requires you to record your odometer at the beginning and end of your trips. There's currently nothing in the law that requires you to log odometer readings except for the beginning and the end of each year, and when you start using a new vehicle.











IRS & Employer Mileage Log Requirements | See What Records You Need


Are you required to keep records? Do you need to record odometer readings for every trip? Get an overview of mileage log requirements by the IRS or your employer.




www.driversnote.com


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

What? He didn't bite, so you're pressing a little harder to try to get the argument that you want?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> What? He didn't bite, so you're pressing a little harder to try to get the argument that you want?


Two separate sources. I found them at different times. I elected to create another comment instead of editing the original one.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

2 Things I want to add to this discussion:


If you ONLY use the vehicle for rideshare/delivery and you have another vehicle the a Jan 1 - Dec.31 mileage readings are sufficient for the mileage deduction and record keeping. If you have a small number of personal trips in the vehicle, you can record those and then deduct it from the total mileage for the year.
Even before their budget cuts, in person audits were very rare. The vast majority of audits are done through the mail and usually involve math errors or unmatched income (you get a 1099 and it doesn't appear on your return). The folks who seem to get the most audits are small business owners and high net worth individuals. Business owners because they are the ones most likely to fudge things like hiding cash receipts or claiming a vehicle is 100% business, while wealthy individuals will engage in aggressive tax minimization schemes which may be of questionable legality. I have a friend who was an IRS agent and she would audit a contractor who claimed their pick up was 100% used for business. Then she would engage in a little small talk, ask them if they liked to fish, do they own a boat. The would light up and tell the little lady all about it thinking she was genuinely interested in fishing but she would eventually turn the conversation around to "how do you tow the boat". When they admitted that they used the PU then the 100% business deduction went out the window and she was more likely to press on other issues. The contractors were already there in her office because their ratios didn't make sense, to high on expenses, too low on revenue, etc... She does not have time to start subpoenaing bank records and the like UNLESS there is a good chance of a large shortfall in tax paid. While not on quotas one of their performance metrics is how much they "bring in" in taxes and fines. So, things to consider, NEVER volunteer information or engage in small talk. WWhen she starts chatting you up and asking about fishing, the correct response is to look down at your watch like you need to get out of there and reply back to the question with something like "I don't see the relevance between this question and my taxes."
Bottom line, while they wield a great deal of power, an audit is not something to fear unless you are playing fast and loose with the truth.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Mileage isn't equal to odometer though, if that's what you were implying with the quote. Mileage is literally a count of miles independent of method used to calculate the miles (like start and end on odometer).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you even read the advertisement you Posted?

You're quoting an advertisement article from a company selling GPS tracking app. Heads up, they aren't the IRS or even a financial news organization.
Even if you find them a pseudo authority, I could quote so many pieces of that advertisement that are in direct conflict with your statements. I'll just choose one:_ In short, you have to keep a mileage log that demonstrates the following: The distance traveled: the number of miles driven for each work trip. The date and time of each trip. The location: each business trip's final destination_. Heads up, your "bulletproof" daily summary is incompatible with the advertisement you posted to support your claim!


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Heisenburger said:


> Please help us all by quoting the specific part of the tax code that supports what you're alleging. I've started it for you by supplying the starting pages:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh brother, I'd expect better from a sharp guy like you. You made 2 errors:

Publication 510 says nothing about documentation requirements so it's mainly irrelevant.
Topic 304 says nothing specific relative to recordkeeping and offers no relevant guidance.
Your mistake is ignoring either deliberately or accidently IRS Publication 463 which is the nitty gritty of this topic. Suggest you read it thoroughly. Specifically you may want to take a peak at Tables 5-1 and 5-2.

Again, I am not saying they won't accept any garbage you throw, they might but it's discretionary. What you posted doesn't even begin to meet the minimum standards to be called "bulletproof". If that's the best documentation you have you'd be better off claiming you use your car 100% for rideshare and giving Jan 1 and Dec 31 odometer reading.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

The last few years as I get alot of 1099ks and misc. I pay the tax service to do mine. I get 3 with lyft 2 with uber being a wav driver. 
It's worked out well. Turbo tax is ok for a simple return. The tax service can save you many headaches. And problems in the future. I paid $600+ last year. Worth every penny.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Seamus said:


> IRS Publication 463


 I've already dug through that one. It's way too broad. I see zero mention of required content for business miles whatsoever. Maybe I'm just blind. Oh well.



Seamus said:


> Topic 304


305 is what I referenced. And it's applicable.



Seamus said:


> Publication 510 says nothing about documentation requirements so it's mainly irrelevant.


The 510 page has this section:



> *Recordkeeping*
> The law requires that you substantiate your expenses by *adequate records* or by *sufficient evidence* to support your own statement. For further information on recordkeeping, refer to Topic No. 305.
> 
> 
> ...


Good times!🍻 I fear no audit.😎 Attorneys need to eat too. 😁


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Seamus said:


> What you posted doesn't even begin to meet the minimum standards to be called "bulletproof".


Are you referring to this?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

More evidence against the Chicken Little crowd's "theory":



> IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig, who was appointed by former President Donald Trump, along with the Democratic party have repeatedly expressed that the new enforcement funds would not be directed at small businesses and families making under $400,000.
> 
> "Wage-earning taxpayers like firefighters, construction workers, teachers and police officers are among the most compliant taxpayers, given that their incomes come from Forms W-2 and 1099," Rettig wrote this week in an exclusive op-ed on Yahoo Finance. "These resources are absolutely not about increasing audit scrutiny on small businesses or middle-income Americans."
> 
> ...


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

It's so much easier to rent off rental vehicles as a business expense.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

Uber's Guber said:


> You sure like to paint a rosy picture. Biden didn’t just invest billions of your tax dollars into the IRS to make your life more satisfying. Biden’s own words was to bring taxpayers into compliance by increasing the enforcement arm of the IRS. Biden expects to recap trillions from the added oversight by disallowing write offs and tacking on penalties & interest.


Uh, that's disallowing write-offs that weren't supposed to be used in the first place.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

Seamus said:


> That is very far from bulletproof. This has been kicked around for so many years I don’t even have the energy to debate it anymore.
> 
> However, it’s called a “mileage“ log. Listing your daily mileage expense with no odometer readings is a hundred miles away from being ”bulletproof“. It’s actually pretty shaky at best. That’s also not to say it couldn’t be accepted, it’s up to the discretion of the agent reviewing it.
> 
> ...


Bingo! Just take a photo of the odometer at the end of every hustling day, and take the difference between what Uber's mileage is and your own and write it off as "inter-ride travel".


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> Uh, that's disallowing write-offs that weren't supposed to be used in the first place.


Uh, the write-offs are allowed_ if _they’re properly documented.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

JeanOcelot0 said:


> Just take a photo of the odometer at the end of every hustling day, and take the difference between what Uber's mileage is and your own and write it off as "inter-ride travel".


Uh, that’s not sufficient documentation for deducting business mileage.


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## JeanOcelot0 (Dec 30, 2020)

Uber's Guber said:


> Uh, that’s not sufficient documentation for deducting business mileage.


Why not? I guess one could go onto a map website and do a printout of the path from the end of a ride to the beginning of the other (including going to/from home for the first/last rides).


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