# Uber Quarterly Sales Rose 61% to $2 Billion Amid Heavy Loss



## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

*Uber Quarterly Sales Rose 61% to $2 Billion Amid Heavy Loss*

*

*
Adjusted net revenue last quarter increased 61 percent to $2.22 billion from the same period in 2016. Meanwhile, the total value of fares grew to $11 billion that quarter. It was the first full quarter under Dara Khosrowshahi, who took over the troubled business in September.

Despite a turbulent year for the ride-hailing company, sales were $7.5 billion. But the company also posted a substantial loss of $4.5 billion. There are few historical precedents for the scale of its loss.

Uber isn't publicly traded but has chosen to release select financial information to investors and the public in recent quarters. Last month, SoftBank Group Corp. led a $9.3 billion investment deal to make itself largest shareholder in the San Francisco-based company. The Japanese firm is betting that more people will choose to book rides through an app instead of driving themselves and that the business will find a way to make up for losses today.

Alphabet Inc.'s Waymo. Uber agreed to give Waymo stock valued at $245 million to settle the suit last week.

Uber prefers to use a different number to refer to its loss: $2.2 billion. The figure leaves out some legal costs and stock-based compensation, as well as taxes, interest and other expenses. Uber concluded the year with about $6 billion in cash, 13 percent less than the year before.

Khosrowshahi spoke with investors on a conference call Tuesday afternoon. The company shared the numbers with technology news site the Information after the call and confirmed them to Bloomberg. Khosrowshahi said on the investor call that UberEats had reached a $4 billion gross revenue run-rate in the fourth quarter, which means food delivery will represent about 10 percent of Uber's business.

The CEO is scheduled to speak Wednesday at a Goldman Sachs Group Inc. technology conference in San Francisco, as is Bill Gurley, a former board member who helped lead the ouster of Khosrowshahi's predecessor, Travis Kalanick.

Uber hasn't made it easy to compare last year's financials to years past. The company declined to disclose complete data for 2016 and over time has changed how it accounts for revenue. Uber lost billions in China before selling its business there in 2016 in exchange for a 17.5 percent stake in homegrown rival Didi Chuxing.



Nothing to see here..


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

1 billion more in revenue to 1.7 billion more in loses.


I'm glad MY FINANCES didn't look like that LOL.


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## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> 1 billion more in revenue to 1.7 billion more in loses.
> 
> I'm glad MY FINANCES didn't look like that LOL.


And this is with the Uber Upfront Pricing scam in effect!


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## Veju (Apr 17, 2017)

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/02/13/ubers-loss-jumped-61-percent-to-4-point-5-billion-in-2017.html

Uber has just revealed its fourth-quarter financial results, which show that the ride-hailing company's loss jumped 61 percent in 2017.

The company lost $4.5 billion last year, up from $2.8 billion in 2016, according to figures first reported by The Information and confirmed by CNBC on Tuesday.

However, in the fourth quarter, which was CEO Dara Khosrowshahi's first full period at the helm, Uber's loss narrowed to $1.1 billion from $1.46 billion in the third quarter. Revenue during that stretched climbed about 14 percent to $11.1 billion from $9 billion.

Uber ended the year with about $6 billion in cash, 13 percent below the prior year's total, according to Bloomberg.

Uber is not required to publicly report its financial results, but has begun disclosing some figures in recent months.


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## Cigars (Dec 8, 2016)

I think the key is this:

https://www.ft.com/content/a0f2af96-1117-11e8-940e-08320fc2a277

"The fourth quarter showed some improvement in Uber's operating expenses, which dropped to 88 per cent of net revenues in the period, compared with 100 per cent of revenues during the third quarter."

After 5 (6? 7?) years of losing money (they are still losing money), this is the first quarter that operating expenses are less than revenue.

This is the first time that Uber has proved that it is possible for it to make money.

Until now, I have viewed it as a broken business model as it has always spent more money on salaries, rent, utlities, etc. than it has made.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Cigars said:


> I think the key is this:
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/a0f2af96-1117-11e8-940e-08320fc2a277
> 
> ...


no idea how this person can think Uber can turn a profit unless Uber paid them to say that


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## Cigars (Dec 8, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> no idea how this person can think Uber can turn a profit unless Uber paid them to say that


Turning a profit is very different than revenue exceeding operational expenses.
If your revenue never exceeds your operational expenses, you will never make a profit.
What happened last quarter, for the first time ever, revenue exceeded operational expenses.
This allows for the possibility of profit.

As I stated, I viewed it previously as a failed business model.
How someone who claims to have believed that claim is from a paid "Uber shill", I do not know how you draw your conclusions.
This development in the ride share industry, means it can "possibly" succeed.

While we focus on Uber and Lyft, there are 30+ ride share companies in the world.
As far as I know, none has ever posted a quarterly profit.

The release of these numbers, is misleading.
Uber did not lose $750 million this quarter. Uber lost $1.1 billion using GAAP standards.
Operational expenses do not include "Capital Expenses", of which Uber has few, considering you own the car and the phone.
Capital expenses would include every desk or computer or phone or car or building that Uber buys.
Operational expenses do not include lawsuits and giving away stock.

Would I invest in Uber? No.
Is Uber a $70 billion company? Never, as it functions currently.
Is Uber a giant lawsuit and regulatory risk? Absolutely, changing laws and lawsuits could effectively shut it down.
Will robot cars save Uber? Not in 20 years.
Will another company learn from Ubers mistakes and destroy them in 5 years? I believe so.

BUT,
We idiot drivers, now make them enough money to pay salaries and rent.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> 1 billion more in revenue to 1.7 billion more in loses.


Exactly what I saw. And that little line that reads


Jo3030 said:


> Uber prefers to use a different number to refer to its loss: $2.2 billion. The figure leaves out some legal costs and stock-based compensation, as well as taxes, interest and other expenses.
> 
> Some legal cost? The $6 billion compensation to Travis?


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Veju said:


> https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/02/13/ubers-loss-jumped-61-percent-to-4-point-5-billion-in-2017.html
> 
> Uber has just revealed its fourth-quarter financial results, which show that the ride-hailing company's loss jumped 61 percent in 2017.
> 
> ...


Damn, I think that the only record that Uber is beating this year is our Phoenix Suns.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Which businesses made the most money last year?

1. Uber
2. Your kid's lemonaid stand

Trick question, I know.


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## Leo1983 (Jul 3, 2017)

They closed the gap by charging the customers extra. Basically stealing from the customer. The customer is hooked, going to be hard to reprogram.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Leo1983 said:


> They closed the gap by charging the customers extra. Basically stealing from the customer. The customer is hooked, going to be hard to reprogram.


Umm

Wrong,

The gap is widening.

It's 1.5 billion wider than the 2016.

Loses are going up faster than revenue.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Cigars said:


> Turning a profit is very different than revenue exceeding operational expenses.
> If your revenue never exceeds your operational expenses, you will never make a profit.
> What happened last quarter, for the first time ever, revenue exceeded operational expenses.
> This allows for the possibility of profit.
> ...


lol did you even read the article ? they are losing more money each quarter than the last ? Where are you getting the feeling that their current business model now has a path to profitability ? You admit their model sucks but somehow are taking something positive from this article ? you got me baffled


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Sure uber is bringing in billions, but they are burning it... Imagine that but every DAY. (assuming those are all singles)



uberdriverfornow said:


> lol did you even read the article ? they are losing more money each quarter than the last ? Where are you getting the feeling that their current business model now has a path to profitability ? You admit their model sucks but somehow are taking something positive from this article ? you got me baffled


Only the jerks who just want to see uber burn saw anything positive in that article.


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## Cigars (Dec 8, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lol did you even read the article ? they are losing more money each quarter than the last ? Where are you getting the feeling that their current business model now has a path to profitability ? You admit their model sucks but somehow are taking something positive from this article ? you got me baffled


Yes, I read the article and the more involved financial Times article that I linked.
Yes, they are losing money (I was looking at quarterly losses).
Yes, note that I claimed Ubers books are false. They did not lose $750 million last quarter but if they were a publicly traded company they would have to admit to a $1.1 billion loss.
Yes, I believe there are inherent problems with the ride share industries business model.

What I said was, that for the first time in history, last quarter, Uber actually made more money than it spent on operating expenses.
I realize you are baffled, but I cannot explain that more succinctly.
Yes, Uber is still losing money, but they are losing money because of lawsuits, giving away stock options, and capital expenditures.
That is different than every quarter in the past when they did not make enough money to cover their rent and salary bill.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Cigars said:


> Yes, I read the article and the more involved financial Times article that I linked.
> Yes, they are losing money (I was looking at quarterly losses).
> Yes, note that I claimed Ubers books are false. They did not lose $750 million last quarter but if they were a publicly traded company they would have to admit to a $1.1 billion loss.
> Yes, I believe there are inherent problems with the ride share industries business model.
> ...


Don't worry about it. On this forum you can be accused of being a shill if you refuse to hate everything Uber does. The more rational view is Uber has huge investor support and will be around for many years.


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

Haha.

**** them.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

The biggest thing that's killing them is Cost of revenue, that shit insurance. 
Operations & support and administrative needs to have a huge budget cut. You don't need 15k employees in one of the most expensive cities on the planet to run an app.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Cigars said:


> Yes, I read the article and the more involved financial Times article that I linked.
> Yes, they are losing money (I was looking at quarterly losses).
> Yes, note that I claimed Ubers books are false. They did not lose $750 million last quarter but if they were a publicly traded company they would have to admit to a $1.1 billion loss.
> Yes, I believe there are inherent problems with the ride share industries business model.
> ...












Cost of revenue {that insurance} = makes them unprofitable.
I'm surprised they haven't just gone all out in requiring full time ants to buy their own FHV insurance.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

dirtylee said:


> View attachment 205449
> 
> 
> The biggest thing that's killing them is Cost of revenue, that shit insurance.
> Operations & support and administrative needs to have a huge budget cut. You don't need 15k employees in one of the most expensive cities on the planet to run an app.


Maybe, but in the last three months they gave Travis $6 billion to say goodbye and had to give Waymo $345 million. I don't see insurance in that chart. Is insurance grouped in with Operations and Support or taxes and fees?


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## Cigars (Dec 8, 2016)

dirtylee said:


> View attachment 205451
> 
> 
> Cost of revenue {that insurance} = makes them unprofitable.
> I'm surprised they haven't just gone all out in requiring full time ants to buy their own FHV insurance.


Wow!
Where did you find that chart?
I had believed from what I had read (FT) that insurance was part of operating expenses.
Instead what that chart shows is that Insurance is half of net revenue!!!
That chart also shows that refunds are only 00.02% percent of sales, which is nearly impossible.
(I had a customer claim that a driver never picked him up but Uber charged him for the full $50 trip home. When he complained, Uber would not refund him for a trip charged he did not take, but only provided him "credit" towards future trips. Do they not book these issues as refunds??

If this chart is accurate (Please provide this link), I am back to believing it is a failed business model because insurance will always be 50% of net revenue.

I would like to know how much Lyft saves with their $2500 deductable. Are they 50% of net revenue too?

$11 billion in sales, $22 million in refunds???? I call Bull.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

I believe refund where the driver still gets paid doesn't happen that often. Possibly also rolled into rider promotions.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Insurance is a huge expense.

I used to pay over $500 a month for single driver single vehicle commercial insurance.

Insurance is without any doubt in my mind, Uber’s single biggest line item there is.

No company as big as Uber gets insurance, it just isn’t done.

Once you get over about 100 vehicles on the road, it’s cheaper to self insure.

The problem with self insurance is that you need a stupid amount of cash saved to get the certificates of self insurance in every state you operate. For Uber, this would be 100s of millions if not billions to get everything legally set up to insure 1 million cars across all 52+ states in the US. Each of which has different regulations and requires a bond on file. Which is money Uber can’t do anything with ever as long as they exist.
(50 states + DC + Peurtorico)


However if they dropped the money on the bonds for self insurance they would be assets that would hold their value garunteed until they end of Uber.

Which would be assets they can actually borrow against and would cover their insurance problem for decades. They are also assets that would count towards Uber’s value directly, as they have a specified value.

After getting this all set up they wouldn’t pay insurance premiums they would instead pay out claims directly cutting out the insurer middle man.


This is in my opinion the single greatest mistake Uber has made.


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## at-007smartLP (Oct 27, 2017)

only blowing

9K a second
500K an hour
12 million per day
on a 4.5 billion loss approximately pf course if my calculator was right so many zeros no commas gets tough

sounds like legit business not an organized crime racket & ponzi scheme yeah thats the ticket ride "slaving" i mean "sharing"

what do you expect from a company thats literally 80+% slavery & a ponzi scam using humans as loss leaders on top of investors?

80+% of the blank contracts they use to coerce free labor sent to drivers dont cover costs

96% of drivers fail because duh people dont like to work for free 80+% of the time or duh its impossible t make more than minimum wage (well 4% figure it out)

12 million dollars lost PER DAY, 13+ Billion burned in a fire already, zero profit, hundreds if not thousands of fines, lawsuits, & settlements...

every ride under 10 miles on uber x or uber pool & lyft that doesn't include minimum $5 cash tip the driver loses money

90+% of uber markets pay a 1971 minimum fare with cab rates from 1965-1985..

jobs are not games you give kids who spell cat right badges & stars, riders rate on ethnicity, gender, weather, traffic, argument with significant other, price, talked too much, didnt talke enough...

drivers rate every ride under 10 miles with no cash tip 1* & request to be unmatched, well 4% that succeed do

jobs arent slot machines that target the brains cocaine pleasure centers, sending blank contracts that pay out 20% of the time but bust 80% of the time,

if you don't work for free 80% of the time & cancel rides that require you to work for free youre fired is COERCED LABOR & fits the definition of slavery

$2 is something you gave a paperboy in the 1980s to take trash 200 feet to the curb or a current bartender/server to deliver a bottle/plate 50 ft, NOT something you give to a HUMAN BEING in 2018 to pick up an anonymous school shooter, murderer, rapist, robber, 100-500+ pounds & deliver it 1-5 miles in a Top 5 most dangerous " job"...

its not all whips & chains

shut it down, nationalize uber put amerikkka to work & arrest these modern day slavers

every adult over 21 who passes a background & license check & owns anually inspected vehicle has an honest FAIR JOB

$1.50 minimum per mile, .25 per minute, $10 gross minimum per ride Nationwide

100% acceptance rates, very few cancels, all 5 star rides


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> 1 billion more in revenue to 1.7 billion more in loses.
> 
> I'm glad MY FINANCES didn't look like that LOL.


Your Uber income finances look exactly like that!


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## jcarrolld (Aug 25, 2016)

Drivers will continue to make the same $$ or less for as long as the two companies are in business. Those are the only numbers that matter.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

dirtylee said:


> View attachment 205451
> 
> 
> Cost of revenue {that insurance} = makes them unprofitable.
> I'm surprised they haven't just gone all out in requiring full time ants to buy their own FHV insurance.


Dara himself all but said uber is truning a profit on its North American operations.

He said "overseas losses and innovation (code word for SDCs) are "dragging uber down"

Uber's is using Hollywood Accounting to make it appear that it's is losing money in its rideshare business.

Why?

To keep the politicians, regulators, and courts off their backs.

Uber and lyft are clearly violating the laws on independent contractor status, and an uber that's making large profits would become a target for regulations and lawsuits.

So it's in uber's best interest to appear broke.


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## freeFromUber (Mar 1, 2016)

Jo3030 said:


> *Uber Quarterly Sales Rose 61% to $2 Billion Amid Heavy Loss*
> 
> *
> 
> ...


Hmmmm....the more the take in, the more they lose. Interesting business model.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

UsedToBeAPartner said:


> Your Uber income finances look exactly like that!


on 2017 i had like $350 on the year on uber.

$41,000 revenue on taxi, $16,000 in gas/taxi rental, 25,000 in taxable profit.

So... not quite as grim, not by a long shot.


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## Ogbootsy (Sep 12, 2016)

So Uber is still losing money while stealing extra money from drivers and riders... How is this possible? Too much advertising and overpaid employees.


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## Cigars (Dec 8, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Dara himself all but said uber is truning a profit on its North American operations.
> 
> He said "overseas losses and innovation (code word for SDCs) are "dragging uber down"
> 
> ...


That is another thing to consider.
Ubers books are a total of all the markets it is in.
Uber may be making money in Boston but losing money in Boise.
Or Uber maybe making money in the US but losing money in Brazil.

We cannot see "US sales" separated from Brazil sales or Boston from Boise.
The chart above is showing driver costs, promotions, etc. to be 80% of gross revenue.
In the US is it now 65%? If so, Uber is making money in the US. Since upfront pricing began, we see Ubers take of the fare become larger and larger.
Every Uber POO you pick up, the second pax you pick up for free and Uber keeps all that fare.
(Thats why I no longer pick up the second pax. I simply continue towards the original pax's destination. Eventually the second pax cancels as you drive past them. If they do not cancel them I cancel them when I drop off the first pax. I have doubled back to pick up the second pax but Uber has punished me for "inefficient route", so I will never again pick up the second pax. Shame on any driver who picks up the second pax for free or 50 cents.)

It is not in Ubers interest to "appear broke". They are trying to go public and list the company. They need to show how they can make money before they do that.

Uber pulled out of China and got 17% of DiDi.
Uber pulled out of Russia and got 35% of Yandex.
Uber sold its leasing unit and got 10% of fair.com.
Uber is pulling out of Vietnam, Singapore, and Indonesia and wants a piece of Grab to go away.
Uber is no longer losing money in these markets.
Uber is becoming a holding company. The value of Uber should also reflect the value of these assets.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

"Uber prefers to use a different number to describe their loases..."
LOL.
"Dear DISH Network, I'd prefer to use a DIFFERENT number to describe my bill amount..."
That's not how numbers work, Uber.


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## majxl (Jan 6, 2017)

Uber, Lyft and all other taxi app have never made a profit, and never will, because they are based on an inefficient and poorly planed business model.

They survive with investor money which subsidies them and, also, have been able to operate unfairly without the rules and obligations imposed to traditional taxi operators.

Uber and all are strongly contributing to catastrophic unhealthily air pollution and insane traffic congestion by adding thousand and thousand of unnecessary cars which do not reflect the actual demand for FHV but only serve to destroy competition.

Uber is hoping that an IPO will bring them the cash to continue their out-dated business practices...this will not happen in 2018 and projections for 2019 are rapidly getting worse.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Cigars said:


> That is another thing to consider.
> Ubers books are a total of all the markets it is in.
> Uber may be making money in Boston but losing money in Boise.
> Or Uber maybe making money in the US but losing money in Brazil.
> ...


Amazon and other companies have had successful IPOs while they were suffering huge losses, so there must be another reason Uber hasn't gone public.

I suspect they don't want their books opened until they're ready to launch SDCs.

More than a holding company, Uber is data mining and collection entity.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Jo3030 said:


> *Uber Quarterly Sales Rose 61% to $2 Billion Amid Heavy Loss*
> 
> Adjusted net revenue last quarter increased 61 percent to $2.22 billion from the same period in 2016. Meanwhile, the total value of fares grew to $11 billion that quarter. It was the first full quarter under Dara Khosrowshahi, who took over the troubled business in September.
> 
> ...


PENCIL WHIPPING TO SUCCESS !

" ADJUSTED PROFITS".

( this is where an EXPERIENCED C.E.O. PAYS OFF !)



Nats121 said:


> Amazon and other companies have had successful IPOs while they were suffering huge losses, so there must be another reason Uber hasn't gone public.
> 
> I suspect they don't want their books opened until they're ready to launch SDCs.
> 
> More than a holding company, Uber is data mining and collection entity.


A GLOBAL DATA STRIP MINING CORPORATION.



TwoFiddyMile said:


> "Uber prefers to use a different number to describe their loases..."
> LOL.
> "Dear DISH Network, I'd prefer to use a DIFFERENT number to describe my bill amount..."
> That's not how numbers work, Uber.


" ADJUSTED"


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

majxl said:


> Uber, Lyft and all other taxi app have never made a profit, and never will, because they are based on an inefficient and poorly planed business model.
> 
> They survive with investor money which subsidies them and, also, have been able to operate unfairly without the rules and obligations imposed to traditional taxi operators.
> 
> ...


Don't be fooled by uber.

They're making a profit on their rideshare business in North America.

Their "losses" are coming from the huge money they're spending on developing SDCs and some overseas losses.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Don't be fooled by uber.
> 
> They're making a profit on their rideshare business in North America.
> 
> Their "losses" are coming from the huge money they're spending on developing SDCs and some overseas losses.


So they are draining.OUR RESOURCES
AND LOSING MONEY CREATING ROBOT REPLACEMENTS FOR US !


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## freeFromUber (Mar 1, 2016)

Jo3030 said:


> *Uber Quarterly Sales Rose 61% to $2 Billion Amid Heavy Loss*
> 
> *
> 
> ...


How in the hell do you lose $4.5 BILLION, in 3 effing months? That's a loss of $50 million A DAY...every day...for 3 months. Incredible! Somebody is doing something wrong.



Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Insurance is a huge expense.
> 
> I used to pay over $500 a month for single driver single vehicle commercial insurance.
> 
> ...


I agree...something doesn't add up with their insurance numbers. Assuming you paid $500/month or $6000/year...FUber would have to have over 64 million drivers at that rate to be paying $4 billion/year...,,and they don't.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

freeFromUber said:


> How in the hell do you lose $4.5 BILLION, in 3 effing months? That's a loss of $50 million A DAY...every day...for 3 months. Incredible! Somebody is doing something wrong.
> 
> I agree...something doesn't add up with their insurance numbers. Assuming you paid $500/month or $6000/year...FUber would have to have over 64 million drivers at that rate to be paying $4 billion/year...,,and they don't.


Somewhere I found an article stating Uber was doubling their office space in Manhattan. The new yearly rent is estimated at $4.4 million.
That's two offices in only one city. There are at least 10 markets for Uber the size of NYC globally.
starts to paint an ugly picture regarding how these people spend.
???


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Don't be fooled by uber.
> 
> They're making a profit on their rideshare business in North America.
> 
> Their "losses" are coming from the huge money they're spending on developing SDCs and some overseas losses.


Maybe so but I thought Uber admitted they lose money on Pool.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

goneubering said:


> Maybe so but I thought Uber admitted they lose money on Pool.


They MAKE money on pool, often times more than X rides.

Every pool pax pays a booking fee + mileage + time


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Jo3030 said:


> *Uber Quarterly Sales Rose 61% to $2 Billion Amid Heavy Loss*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Uber will never be a profitable company until it understands that the rate it charges it's customers, as it is currently, is unsustainable, that the sustainable rate is more likely much closer to what taxis companies charge, who, having been in the business for over a century, figured out what the profitable rate was a long long time ago.


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## Hogg (Feb 7, 2016)

They don't want to be a profitable transportation company and probably never will be.

How much can they make driving people around? Maybe a few million dollars.

How much can they make from tricking more people into investing in them? Tens of billions of dollars.

Not a hard comparison there, and that's exactly what is happening.


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## LoveBC (May 16, 2017)

Sales of WHAT EXACTLY, what is this technology company “selling”


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## transporter007 (Feb 19, 2018)

Hogg said:


> They don't want to be a profitable transportation company and probably never will be.
> 
> How much can they make driving people around? Maybe a few million dollars.
> 
> ...


"Investment Loses" help mega rich people pay less taxes.
For further insight seek out a CPA


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

All uber have to do is raise the rates....they dropped the rates insanely low just to stop common folks from pulling in $5000-$10000 a month in my opinion.....they shot their self in the foot just to stop us from making good money....


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## transporter007 (Feb 19, 2018)

Uberk5487 said:


> All uber have to do is raise the rates....they dropped the rates insanely low just to stop common folks from pulling in $5000-$10000 a month in my opinion.....they shot their self in the foot just to stop us from making good money....


What was uber's Motivation for keeping u low income?


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

The way to fix the net income issue is quite simple fix the surge they are loosing billions by reducing surge. It’s simple 6-9am surge 5-8pm surge after 11:00pm t-m surge and not just in the big cities they need surges world wide in the sticks airports and small towns. This is the most logical basic way to make money and Lyft would follow in a heart beat.


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## Uberk5487 (Apr 4, 2017)

transporter007 said:


> What was uber's Motivation for keeping u low income?


Money is power.....we all get rich what stops a group of us from starting our own ride share company....


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Uberk5487 said:


> Money is power.....we all get rich what stops a group of us from starting our own ride share company....


mainly network effects. go start a competing ebay or craigslist or paypal.


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## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

Is there any indication that Uber is working on self insurance as a method of reducing their huge insurance expenses? They could test it in one or two states before rolling it out to the others...


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

LoveBC said:


> Sales of WHAT EXACTLY, what is this technology company "selling"


Purple Flavored Ponzis



Agent99 said:


> Is there any indication that Uber is working on self insurance as a method of reducing their huge insurance expenses? They could test it in one or two states before rolling it out to the others...


Self insurance is a bonding issue. For Uber to self insure, theyd have to place something like 50 billion worldwide in surety bonds.
They don't have 50 billion.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Purple Flavored Ponzis
> 
> Self insurance is a bonding issue. For Uber to self insure, theyd have to place something like 50 billion worldwide in surety bonds.
> They don't have 50 billion.


you're right i had the decimal point in the wrong place...

I said hundreds of millions or billions, should have been tens of billions..



Agent99 said:


> Is there any indication that Uber is working on self insurance as a method of reducing their huge insurance expenses? They could test it in one or two states before rolling it out to the others...


Too expensive to get started, but it would save them money instantly. Literally instantly...

The problem like twofiddyMile said is that those bonds are just too much money to shell out for, however they would instantly stabilize uber's value at however much the bonds are worth.

It would be a great thing for uber to invest in and would help uber's bottom line long term,

BUT UBER DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE BOTTOM LINE!

Once Dhara figures out Uber is a giant investment scam things might change... Or he can sell out his stocks to some sucker and be done with.


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## Michael1230nj (Jun 23, 2017)

And this is without any real Competitors in the market. if they do get closer to a break even number watch the Flock Of new Ride Share Companies enter the business.


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> Which businesses made the most money last year?
> 1. Uber
> 2. Your kid's lemonaid stand.
> Trick question, I know.


Can I have 3 attempts to answer?


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

No surprise here. After all, didn't Uber give a boost to their "booking fee" last Summer?


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## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Purple Flavored Ponzis
> 
> Self insurance is a bonding issue. For Uber to self insure, theyd have to place something like 50 billion worldwide in surety bonds.
> They don't have 50 billion.


Can't they start small, like just with California, not the whole planet?


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Agent99 said:


> Can't they start small, like just with California, not the whole planet?


California could be hundreds of millions if not billions with the sheer quantity of cars they would need to get the bond for.


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

Cigars said:


> Turning a profit is very different than revenue exceeding operational expenses.
> If your revenue never exceeds your operational expenses, you will never make a profit.
> What happened last quarter, for the first time ever, revenue exceeded operational expenses.
> This allows for the possibility of profit.
> ...


Self driving cars would destroy Uber. Uber largest valuation is in it's network of drivers and the cars + logiatics they bring with them. Besides a name and a below cost ride, what is Uber? Define Uber outside these terms and make it look like a 50 billion dollar company. You can not compare it to Facebook. A Facebook competitor can not offer a cheaper Facebook. It can not offer a safer Facebook or guarantee a more humaine Facebook competitor. So what is Uber? Where is the value? The app is worthless, they have no i.p. and nothing that keeps people from going to competitors (use Juno in NYC as a good example).


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## UBERslaveRunner (Oct 11, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Umm
> 
> Wrong,
> 
> ...


Yup drivers loses because of upfront prices. Uber gave me the personal scoop on why they do this and they don't refund when they over charge.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> 1 billion more in revenue to 1.7 billion more in loses.
> 
> I'm glad MY FINANCES didn't look like that LOL.


Keep working for Uber.

You will acquire a taste for LOSING !


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## Transporter_011 (Feb 3, 2018)

Oscar Levant said:


> Uber will never be a profitable company until it understands that the rate it charges it's customers, as it is currently, is unsustainable, that the sustainable rate is more likely much closer to what taxis companies charge, who, having been in the business for over a century, figured out what the profitable rate was a long long time ago.


They had it right with uberselect and uber black. Select trips charge about the same rate that taxis do in my area, black trips the same as limo except the minimum rates are too low for both and the long distance rates are probably a bit over priced for both.

UberX is what I would call greed personified, a true image of the ugliest parts of capitalism. I do consider myself a conservative person by nature, I'm a business owner and have seen what democratic policies have done to me over the years, but UberX is really a crime against humanity to the largest degree in my opinion. It devalues the labor of everyone in the transportation business to such a degree that it should be criminal and banned.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Agent99 said:


> Can't they start small, like just with California, not the whole planet?


Well gosh if they followed a sensible plan like that 8 years ago they would be turning a huge profit by now.
TIU.

This 
Is 
Uber


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

A billion dollars just ain’t what it used to be.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Uber's Guber said:


> Can I have 3 attempts to answer?


Sre
P


Transporter_011 said:


> They had it right with uberselect and uber black. Select trips charge about the same rate that taxis do in my area, black trips the same as limo except the minimum rates are too low for both and the long distance rates are probably a bit over priced for both.
> 
> UberX is what I would call greed personified, a true image of the ugliest parts of capitalism. I do consider myself a conservative person by nature, I'm a business owner and have seen what democratic policies have done to me over the years, but UberX is really a crime against humanity to the largest degree in my opinion. It devalues the labor of everyone in the transportation business to such a degree that it should be criminal and banned.


I"ve owned small businesses myself.

Unregulated capitalism always results in the exploitation of labor at the lowest rung of the ladder.

People on the lowest rung who can't earn a livable wage, or it's equivalent, tend to go on public assistance, which is paid for by tax payers, the resulting cost to society greater than if the corporation had paid a livable wage/earnings in the first place, because with assistance, you have tax payers pay for the administration of the assistance program ( foodstamps, etc ). Therefore, a livable wage will cost society less, which in turn means society, on the whole, will have more disposable income, at a net benefit to society. This is precisely why minimum wages are necessary. I've heard conservatives argue 'why not, then, a $50 minimum? " No, that's a classic strawman, and no one is suggesting this. The wage should be enough for life's basic necessities, plus maybe 10% above so one can save so as to get out of the situation and onto better things, but not so much as to overburden the company. The money for this higher minimum wages should come out of the pockets of the board members and CEO and the executives, --- pay the bottom more, top accept less, close the gap more closer to what it was in the 5os when the standard of living was much better for working class folks. I'm old enough to remember. Without regulation, businesses will pay the bottom rung whatever it can get away with, and if it were not for the minimum wage,
they would be paying $2 per hour, yes, people who are desperate, will work for $2 an hour.

Contrary to conservative and libertarian philosophy, regulation is needed. Yes, there is bad and good regulation,


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

Who on earth is throwing their money down this bottomless pit to keep it going? Pretty much any other company would have gone belly up long ago.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

Michael1230nj said:


> And this is without any real Competitors in the market. if they do get closer to a break even number watch the Flock Of new Ride Share Companies enter the business.


what are you talking about? there is 1 major competitor in the US that is gaining market share and a handful of major competitors in other markets. that's why boober got its ass handed to them in russia, china, and soon-to-be india.


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## majxl (Jan 6, 2017)

Michael1230nj said:


> And this is without any real Competitors in the market. if they do get closer to a break even number watch the Flock Of new Ride Share Companies enter the business.


There is no Flock Of New Ride Share Companies willing to enter the business because everybody is realizing that that type of business is consistantly loosing money with no hope to ever realizing any profit!


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Yam Digger said:


> Who on earth is throwing their money down this bottomless pit to keep it going? Pretty much any other company would have gone belly up long ago.


depends on how cooked the books are and what lies they are telling, and finally how gullible the investors are.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

majxl said:


> There is no Flock Of New Ride Share Companies willing to enter the business because everybody is realizing that that type of business is consistantly loosing money with no hope to ever realizing any profit!


Exactly. The only players in the game are UBER/LYFT due to their being capitalised.
Juno and Sidecar failed. You simply cannot do this without suckers providing the billions and billions of backup to actually pay for the daily losses.


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## Cdub2k (Nov 22, 2017)

Transporter_011 said:


> They had it right with uberselect and uber black. Select trips charge about the same rate that taxis do in my area, black trips the same as limo except the minimum rates are too low for both and the long distance rates are probably a bit over priced for both.
> 
> *UberX is what I would call greed personified, a true image of the ugliest parts of capitalism. I do consider myself a conservative person by nature, I'm a business owner and have seen what democratic policies have done to me over the years, but UberX is really a crime against humanity to the largest degree in my opinion. It devalues the labor of everyone in the transportation business to such a degree that it should be criminal and banned.*


* 
*
Can you explain why you feel that way about UberX?


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## Transporter_011 (Feb 3, 2018)

Cdub2k said:


> *
> *
> Can you explain why you feel that way about UberX?


Regulations and steep operating costs are the reason why taxis and limos charge the rates they do for trips. For instance, in Houston to open a company with just one car your yearly expenses will be in the neighborhood of $10k-15k if you office from home and that's before adding in the cost of the vehicle and taxes, ad-valorem and maintenance. Once you start adding more cars and employees, office and storage locations the expenses get even crazier from there. For my business (one car, no office) I have to clear at least $2k per month just to break even on the whole thing. My fares resemble this to be sure and while I still keep a steady stream of corporate clients I lose out on a lot of call in business that I use to get due to uberX because I simply cannot afford to take people to the airport for $10.

UberX dodges all of these regulations, at least in my city. They aren't required to have commercial insurance, they aren't required to have expensive vehicles, they aren't required to have permits or medallions, they aren't required to have airport parking tags, the only overhead they have is a cheap vehicle and gas/maintenance. That's it.

The end result of all of this is that the market demands price reduction on ALL levels of car service because of the insanely low uberX rates. Yet, as business owners we don't get to enjoy a reduction in our operating costs and expenses. In fact, each year I have to keep my fingers crossed that they don't add even more regulations. Recently, they added a compliance measure for wheelchair access requirements which amounts to little more than extortion from the local taxi companies. Make no mistake, year after year the city always tries to find ways to extract more and more money out of small business owners.

When it comes to liberal policy, they're happy to spend money as long as its not theirs.


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## Mido toyota (Nov 1, 2015)

Raise the booking fee to 5 dollars please let us make more money , let the full time drivers make more, force them intelligently, totbuy their own commercial insurence, like what i did, at least let me make more on







the booking fee


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## at-007smartLP (Oct 27, 2017)

Mido toyota said:


> Raise the booking fee to 5 dollars please let us make more money , let the full time drivers make more, force them intelligently, totbuy their own commercial insurence, like what i did, at least let me make more on
> View attachment 208449
> the booking fee


hmmmmm? how long have you been driving? why did you pick them up if they didn't respond to your pretext? if you didnt cancel because your cancel rate was getting high & decided to head towards them, when you start trip 30ish seconds before & saw the trip wouldn't gross least $10, why didn't you cancel don't charge rider & drive on by?

if you did complete the trip & didnt 1star and request to be unmatched & go thru trip history & do the same, you give uber data that says you like being stolen from & pissed on so they keep doing it...

why should uber raise booking fee or rates mikey likes it or has a 96% chance of failure & will be replaced by some other math flunkie

youre an "independent contractor" if you dont screen & get the details of your blank contract before risking your life & spending your own money to fufill it, thats your fault, you deserve it, you like it, & youre actually the reason it keeps getting worse

luckily the 4% who succeed know better

$5.20 gross is deplorable, you should be furious and ashamed its highly illegal & hasn't been accepted as legal pay for that length of cab ride since 1985 but uber would be stupid not to pay you that if you accept it more than once

go thru trip history request unmatch from EVERY ride that grossed less than $10

1 star and unmatch request for every non cash tipper who goes less than 10 miles

uber doesn't respect you its a ponzi scam that respects data

keep driving for free & fail or dont completely your choice if you keep getting robbed oh well you dont keep touching a hot stove if you're sane, you learn after the first time

you are not human to uber, you are scum to them, they despise you with their every being they want you to be their slaves because they have zero respect for you, they cant wait to replace you with 50K+ cars while paying you 1970 wages, some people like humiliation & being degraded

you show uber exactly what youre worth. in the early 90s as a teenager you would give friends or family $5-10 in gas money not adult strangers, its beyond disgusting and calculated evil


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## Mido toyota (Nov 1, 2015)

at-007smartLP said:


> hmmmmm? how long have you been driving? why did you pick them up if they didn't respond to your pretext? if you didnt cancel because your cancel rate was getting high & decided to head towards them, when you start trip 30ish seconds before & saw the trip wouldn't gross least $10, why didn't you cancel don't charge rider & drive on by?
> 
> if you did complete the trip & didnt 1star and request to be unmatched & go thru trip history & do the same, you give uber data that says you like being stolen from & pissed on so they keep doing it...
> 
> ...


I'm happy, with uber already, i wish every trip is a minimum trip, i don't like long trip, 5 trips an hour is 25 dollars, deduct 2.50dollars for gas, another 2.50 for wear and tear , i don't drive a car worth more than 3000 and beleive or not, I just 55000 total revenue out of that 3000 , and by the way i have been driving for 3 years, have a nice day


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## at-007smartLP (Oct 27, 2017)

Mido toyota said:


> I'm happy, with uber already, i wish every trip is a minimum trip, i don't like long trip, 5 trips an hour is 25 dollars, deduct 2.50dollars for gas, another 2.50 for wear and tear , i don't drive a car worth more than 3000 and beleive or not, I just 55000 total revenue out of that 3000 , and by the way i have been driving for 3 years, have a nice day


5 trips an hour 24/7 pings lmao, hope tou dont die for taco money your life to risk & your pax, im not stepping foot in any car worth only 3K but they get what they pay for right?

that trip took 8 minutes had to take a few to get there, ive been driving 3 years & never once got or tried for 5 an hour and highly doubtful youre going to get back to back pings with zero traffic all picked up & dropped of on same block lmao, only $2.5 an hour in gas consistently moving stop & go i dont think so, that $5.20 gross is about $2 after everything but congratulations when that car blows up, gets in a wreck, cant pass inspection..... you have plenty to buy another to spend 10+ hours a day at $2 a pop to start all over again just like planned....

glad youre happy with those wages that actual humans who had character & stood up fo their rights & died so labor wouldn't be exploited but hey no drug test no boss, who cares right work when you want who cares if you're being exploited

im not a 12 year old paperboy in 1985 so i dont do things or risk my life for other adults for $2 after gas lmao

thanks for scooping up the ignored & cancelled on though...


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## Mido toyota (Nov 1, 2015)

at-007smartLP said:


> 5 trips an hour 24/7 pings lmao, hope tou dont die for taco money your life to risk & your pax, im not stepping foot in any car worth only 3K but they get what they pay for right
> 
> glad youre happy with those wages that actual humans who had character & stood up fo their rights & died so labor wouldn't be exploited but hey no drug test no boss, who cares right work when you want who cares if you're being exploited
> 
> im not a 12 year old paperboy in 1985 so i dont do things or risk my life for other adults for $2 after gas lmao


2$ after gas oh, i think you got me wrong, and by the way, people are happy with my car, and let's be specific,, the tare happy with the cheap price,, I don't do drugs , don't take it too personal, I'm not being a shill or a troll , God knows how i hate uber, but I got my reasons, to stick with them, untill some personal stuff gets done,



at-007smartLP said:


> they get what they pay for right


 you ask for a uber x you should step in a car that has to be depreciated, long time ago


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## at-007smartLP (Oct 27, 2017)

Mido toyota said:


> 2$ after gas oh, i think you got me wrong, and by the way, people are happy with my car, and let's be specific,, the tare happy with the cheap price,, I don't do drugs , don't take it too personal, I'm not being a shill or a troll , God knows how i hate uber, but I got my reasons, to stick with them, untill some personal stuff gets done,


yes poor people are grateful for the 41% subsidized chauffeur & private drivers that save them from the bus & walking & in debt paying interest on their movement subscriptions

do you man just saying its your fault and drivers like yous fault it keeps going down instead of up, your data states please sir can i have another

i get it self preservation its why evil that burns 12 million dollars a day can be "worth" 50 billion dollars because ride slavery is the bees knees daddy o slang from the 60s like their pay


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## Mido toyota (Nov 1, 2015)

at-007smartLP said:


> yes poor people are grateful for the 41% subsidized chauffeur & private drivers that save them from the bus & walking & in debt paying interest on their movement subscriptions
> 
> do you man just saying its your fault and drivers like yous fault it keeps going down instead of up, your data states please sir can i have another
> 
> i get it self preservation its why evil that burns 12 million dollars a day can be "worth" 50 billion dollars because ride slavery is the bees knees daddy o slang from the 60s like their pay


Poor people!! I pick up people from mansions, in a beat up sienna 200k, people are cheap, i'm not the reason uber is 50 billion dollars, it is the users , the pax


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## at-007smartLP (Oct 27, 2017)

Mido toyota said:


> Poor people!! I pick up people from mansions, in a beat up sienna 200k, people are cheap, i'm not the reason uber is 50 billion dollars, it is the users , the pax


yes 5 pool requets an hour all from mansions & their happy when you pull up in the $3000 ubermobile & drop them at another mansion a mile away only to be pinged immediately from another mansion, they live those oil leaks on they driveways...

foh

no adult who drives 1-5 miles, accepts a blank contract,, picks up a school shooter or anonymous 100-500 pounds & delivers it 1-5 miles away for $2 or $5.20 for that matter has a valid opinion on anything worth while

its " worth" 50 billion because 80%+ of its uses slave labor that never passed a basic math class & cant find work anywhere else not even minimum wage


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## Mido toyota (Nov 1, 2015)

at-007smartLP said:


> yes 5 pool requets an hour all from mansions & their happy when you pull up in the $3000 ubermobile & drop them at another mansion a mile away only to be pinged immediately from another mansion, they live those oil leaks on they driveways...
> 
> foh
> 
> ...


And you are the genius around here, right?? Oh ya i couldn't find work anywhere else, I'm the definition of modern slavery , you know what I'm uber slave, and I couldn't find any job even in Macdonalds,, they wouldn't hire me man they said I'm too bad at flipping burgers, and i suck in cleaning bathrooms, and their dish washer position was occupied already, what would you do , you have to a slave,, happy?? , made your point, rested your case ? STFU


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## at-007smartLP (Oct 27, 2017)

Mido toyota said:


> And you are the genius around here, right?? Oh ya i couldn't find work anywhere else, I'm the definition of modern slavery , you know what I'm uber slave, and I couldn't find any job even in Macdonalds,, they wouldn't hire me man they said I'm too bad at flipping burgers, and i suck in cleaning bathrooms, and their dish washer position was occupied already, what would you do , you have to a slave,, happy?? , made your point, rested your case ? STFU


nope just postin facts man, like i said do you, self preservation keep accepting it or dont, shoot the messenger or dont, i aint the one giving ya $2, if you brought me a drink or plate 50 feet i would, or brought me a pizza shiiiiit id most likely give ya $5+

so if you cool with uber giving ya $2 five times an hour have a party buy a few mcdoubles have a ball

your choice, im not going stop putting my dicc in a nice eager mouth so i doubt uber or anyone else would a blo job betta den no job ya dig

its pretty obvious plenty of people will work for $2-6 an hour after expenses in 2018, and 96% dont really have any recourse cuz they washed out abd have nore important things to tend to i would guess, i made that in 7th grade pumping gas guess im special far from genius though


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## Mido toyota (Nov 1, 2015)

at-007smartLP said:


> nope just postin facts man, like i said do you, self preservation keep accepting it or dont, shoot the messenger or dont, i aint the one giving ya $2, if you brought me a drink or plate 50 feet i would, or brought me a pizza shiiiiit id most likely give ya $5+
> 
> so if you cool with uber guving ya $2 five times an hour have a party buy a few mcdoubles have a ball
> 
> ...


I do 5 trips of 5.20 an hour not 5 trips of 2$ and i'm bad at math?! , may be bad in English, but not math, defininatly you are so far from being genius


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## at-007smartLP (Oct 27, 2017)

Mido toyota said:


> I do 5 trips of 5.20 an hour not 5 trips of 2$ and i'm bad at math?! , may be bad in English, but not math, defininatly you are so far from being genius


minus gas, minus expenses,never had to fix brakes, tires, alternator, radiator, wipers, inspection, oil changes, car washes, vacuums, tickets huh grasshopper i mean 30+ rides a day non stop back to back pings to all mansions
ads up lol

i know i avergare 2K a year in repairs b& i do 20-30 rides a week, i guess 3K vehicles are built like tanks and never need anything but 9 outta 10 of my rides $40-74 an hour after gas woohoo xl and smart tint for the toll

that $5.20 IS GROSS
$3 at most is net profit the minimum fare in 1971, so
unless you value your life as worthless & never ever ever Eva spent money on a repair or maintenance keep justifying your exploitation. tony danza in the first episode of taxi in 1979 had a $1.65 fare, the lady handed him $2 & said keep the change. He made more than you in 1979 for less work than you did in 2018, he didn't own or have to do any maintenance, clean, or even fuel the cab & i bet she went way furthur than 2 miles lmao










do you


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## Taxi tony (Oct 10, 2017)

You better stop talking bad about Uber or we're going to put you in the corner for 2 weeks.


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## roadman (Nov 14, 2016)

The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire.


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