# I Returned My PPP Loan



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

It hurt a little, but I just returned the $3495 Payment Protection Loan/Grant that my bank credited to my account. Back when the relief programs were firing up I applied for _everything_ not knowing what would get approved. As it happened I qualified for PUA unemployment and the PPP loan in the same week. The bank was supposed to contact me before depositing the PPP money in my account, but alas the funds just showed up in my daily account balance email.

As has been made quite clear by several posters on this site, this is a case of not being able to have your cake and eat it too. The PUA funds total well over the PPP grant, and, it's not clear up front if the PPP money does not have to be paid back, so the choice of door #1 over door #2 was an easy one. I learned speaking to my banker this morning that "forgiveness" (the term used in the promissory note you sign for the PP loan) of the loan is determined by the SBA. I suppose if one were to take the funds as an actual loan, then perhaps the State would not see this as income. But I don't need a loan so the obvious thing to do was to return the money.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I got my PPP loan yesterday and I have not been approved for PUA 

If I do get the PUA The decision will be an easy one for me too. Im keeping the loan. and if I get unemployment, I wont use the loan for payroll. That will mean I will have to pay it back, but thats not a bad thing, 1% is cheap money


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Exactly. 1% is very cheap money. But tell me, are you a sole proprietor? If not I can see how you could spend the money on something other than payroll. End of story.

But if you are pure IC it would seem that simply "cashing the check", i.e., spending the money on anything, or simply leaving it sitting in the bank, could be construed as payroll. Gray area with ICs.

-----------------
PS Just to acknowledge a typo in the OP. "Payment Protection Loan/Grant" should have read "Payroll Protection Program Loan/Grant".


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## BunnyK (Dec 12, 2017)

Very wise. You will thank yourself later when the hammer comes down on people trying to double dip into the system.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> Exactly. 1% is very cheap money. But tell me, are you a sole proprietor? If not I can see how you could spend the money on something other than payroll. End of story.
> 
> But if you are pure IC it would seem that simply "cashing the check", i.e., spending the money on anything, or simply leaving it sitting in the bank, could be construed as payroll. Gray area with ICs.
> 
> ...


I get your point,,, I am the business and the business is me and I treat the business income as personal income so this PPP money must be my money. But if I use the money for a new car for the business, or maybe do some advertising to get things back to normal. I wouldnt consider these as payroll. The problem makes me wish I had maintained a separate bank account for the business

The PPP loan can be forgiven if used for 75% payroll and the other 25% for certain defined purposes, If I was to pay myself out of this loan and accept unemployment ; that would be double dipping and subject me to penalty. No different than if i was to work and accept unemployment

However If I was to use the PPP loan for purposes other than payroll, the loan has to be repaid. (No payments required for 6 months then in my case $647,18/mo) Paying back the loan over time, Is no different that paying it back today and shouldn't impact my application for unemployment

The problem, as I see it is: Now that my state (Florida) is going back to work, and the work I did (Uber) is open for business; can I stay home and collect unemployment? I dont know the legal answer to that question, but I believe it would be wrong.So whether I go back to work or not, I intend to keep the PPP loan and pay it back over time


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

I see. Well you have made up your mind. Let me share this with you in case it helps. I asked my banker today when they would be deciding whether my loan would be "forgiven" or not. They referred me the SBA. Said to call them. Not a big surprise, but after speaking with my banker I now understand the mechanics of the loan.... the bank sends the application someone makes to the SBA. It is the SBA that then decides to grant the loan or not. If yes the bank funds. But that is all the bank is, a middleman transferring Fed sourced funds to their customer's account.

So point being, you may want to contact the SBA sooner rather than later to see if you, an IC, even have the power to spend the funds in a way that triggers a decision that the loan stays a loan or is forgiven. The SBA may have already decided about these IC loans. Or not. This is uncharted waters in general, let alone with an IC in the mix.

Good luck either way.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

_Tron_ said:


> I see. Well you have made up your mind. Let me share this with you in case it helps. I asked my banker today when they would be deciding whether my loan would be "forgiven" or not. They referred me the SBA. Said to call them. Not a big surprise, but after speaking with my banker I now understand the mechanics of the loan.... the bank sends the application someone makes to the SBA. It is the SBA that then decides to grant the loan or not. If yes the bank funds. But that is all the bank is, a middleman transferring Fed sourced funds to their customer's account.
> 
> So point being, you may want to contact the SBA sooner rather than later to see if you, an IC, even have the power to spend the funds in a way that triggers a decision that the loan stays a loan or is forgiven. The SBA may have already decided about these IC loans. Or not. This is uncharted waters in general, let alone with an IC in the mix.
> 
> Good luck either way.


You are right that the SBA approves the loan, but the bank is more than a middle man. The bank actually makes the loan and if my loan is not forgiven, it's the bank that will get my payments and if I don't play by the rules the bank can call my loan

And as near as I can see the bank decides whether I meet the requirements to forgive the loan or not

You are also right that I intend to keep the money whether the loan is forgiven or not

And although I don't have much hope regarding unemployment pay if I get it I'm going to take it until I go back to work


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## NISSA4152 (Apr 23, 2019)

_Tron_ said:


> It hurt a little, but I just returned the $3495 Payment Protection Loan/Grant that my bank credited to my account. Back when the relief programs were firing up I applied for _everything_ not knowing what would get approved. As it happened I qualified for PUA unemployment and the PPP loan in the same week. The bank was supposed to contact me before depositing the PPP money in my account, but alas the funds just showed up in my daily account balance email.
> 
> As has been made quite clear by several posters on this site, this is a case of not being able to have your cake and eat it too. The PUA funds total well over the PPP grant, and, it's not clear up front if the PPP money does not have to be paid back, so the choice of door #1 over door #2 was an easy one. I learned speaking to my banker this morning that "forgiveness" (the term used in the promissory note you sign for the PP loan) of the loan is determined by the SBA. I suppose if one were to take the funds as an actual loan, then perhaps the State would not see this as income. But I don't need a loan so the obvious thing to do was to return the money.


Question? Did you have to sign a note? And if you did how long did it take after signing did you get your deposit? Thank you


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

If you get PPP, then you are no longer unemployed because you are using PPP to pay yourself a salary. I do not know why anyone is eligible for unemployment because drivers and grocery workers are considered "essential" and thus capable of working.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Too many unknowns, not worth the headache. It's all forgivable until the government says it isn't. I hope all of you that borrowed to save your "business" have comfortable knee-pads, because you're going to be spending a lot of time on them.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

EastBayRides said:


> If you get PPP, then you are no longer unemployed because you are using PPP to pay yourself a salary. I do not know why anyone is eligible for unemployment because drivers and grocery workers are considered "essential" and thus capable of working.


I think you are probably right about PPP. If it is used for payroll; that would be the same as working and would disqualify one for unemployment.

To your second point....Our work may be considered essential and we may be capable of working; but thats only part of the equation, We need customers to make any money. No different than the hourly wage worker who is ready willing and able to work, but he cant find a job. He can qualify for unemployment and I think, so can we.


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## Legalizeit0 (Jul 26, 2017)

If you are not collecting UI and still working, the PPP is designed to help you with the 1099 income you lost. I fully expect them to forgive my loan as I used it for mortgage/utilities. I'm not sure how OP got more than $1000.00 as that is what 1-employee businesses (RS drivers) get.


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

oldfart said:


> Our work may be considered essential and we may be capable of working; but thats only part of the equation, We need customers to make any money. No different than the hourly wage worker who is ready willing and able to work, but he cant find a job. He can qualify for unemployment and I think, so can we.


Yes, we can lay ourselves off, which means we cannot use PPP for payroll and thus it becomes a low interest loan. Can't have it both ways. Unless you have underlying conditions, it is time to get back to work. Turn on the Deliveries app and make yourself useful. I'm glad my state finally removed restrictions on my regular gig so I can get back at it. Use the PPP for deferred maintenance on your car, pay your phone and insurance bills, pay yourself rent for your home office, and get back to work. From reading comments here, Capitalism is dead and we've become a nation of moochers.



Legalizeit0 said:


> If you are not collecting UI and still working, the PPP is designed to help you with the 1099 income you lost. I fully expect them to forgive my loan as I used it for mortgage/utilities. I'm not sure how OP got more than $1000.00 as that is what 1-employee businesses (RS drivers) get.


That's how I look at it. Sit in the car and turn on the app. No pings, no work, pay yourself from PPP for the time. But don't sit at home and be useless.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

EastBayRides said:


> But don't sit at home and be useless.


that's exactly what I've done since 3/20. AND I only get a whopping $666 per week. I'm going with you have no family you live with and don't mind the 'risk' of driving right this second. IN my case I do have a family and a frontline hospital worker wife. WE decided we had enough risk with just her going to work and we didn't need to expose OUR son to two parents taking risks.

There is always a 2nd side to a coin, fyi. You seem very ok with risk, I just hope if you live with anybody they agreed to that risk as well.


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> that's exactly what I've done since 3/20. AND I only get a whopping $666 per week. I'm going with you have no family you live with and don't mind the 'risk' of driving right this second. IN my case I do have a family and a frontline hospital worker wife. WE decided we had enough risk with just her going to work and we didn't need to expose OUR son to two parents taking risks.
> 
> There is always a 2nd side to a coin, fyi. You seem very ok with risk, I just hope if you live with anybody they agreed to that risk as well.


As I said, if you have an underlying condition (or related personal circumstance), it makes sense to stay home. Initially it made sense for everyone to stay home because we had no idea what was heading toward us, but now we know this is not nearly as bad as it might have been. The only reason I stayed home for two months is because I wanted to reduce risk to my wife. When she started going out to hang with her friends last week, I ended my isolation. You can't stay home forever, so all the sheltering does is delay the inevitable and subject yourself to longer-term financial insecurity. The first people willing to step outside are the first to take the jobs that are available. Someone has to work to pay for those sitting home watching TV all day while collecting their entitlements.

Don't listen to the epidemiologists whose oath is to save every life regardless the cost. They do not have your long-term interests in mind, just their oath and the dollars from the pharmaceutical companies and for-profit hospitals. And don't listen to flunkie journalists who couldn't pass a 7th grad math exam. They are only trying to sell clicks and buy votes in the November election.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

EastBayRides said:


> I ended my isolation.


you live in a county that still has SAH orders in place; in fact the same county I live in. I missed where 'hanging out' with friends is now allowed. Where 'traveling' to a 'friends' house is allowed. 


EastBayRides said:


> those sitting home watching TV all day while collecting their entitlements.


trust me you doing any job is not supporting anybody else at all. I stay home because of the SAH, which is the SAME one you are under and I don't want yet another risk to my son. You and your wife are happy with risk, knockyourselfout. But don't preach or insult others who are staying home and being safe. 
You might also want to research who exactly is responsible for SAH orders being issued; you have it completely wrong.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

EastBayRides said:


> Someone has to work to pay for those sitting home watching TV all day while collecting their entitlements.


I think if people can afford not to collect it, they should leave it to those who need it more aka those who do not have a fat portfolio they're sitting on and by fat I don't mean a couple million or less (it seems a lot but when you're retired whether early or on time or late) it's not that much.

but fat like 5mil minimum but like more like 10-1000million in liquid so yeah,

everyone should on here should be collecting unless they're not qualified to even if they don't have fat portfolios.

**strictly for those who are in ultra HCOL like bayarea**


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> you live in a county that still has SAH orders in place; in fact the same county I live in. I missed where 'hanging out' with friends is now allowed. Where 'traveling' to a 'friends' house is allowed.
> 
> trust me you doing any job is not supporting anybody else at all. I stay home because of the SAH, which is the SAME one you are under and I don't want yet another risk to my son. You and your wife are happy with risk, knockyourselfout. But don't preach or insult others who are staying home and being safe.
> You might also want to research who exactly is responsible for SAH orders being issued; you have it completely wrong.


Risk is everywhere, even in your home. In fact, the majority of people now getting COVID (as reported in a NY study) are those sheltering at home.

Again, my comments are not about you or intended for you or anyone else in high risk categories. Plenty of posts throughout this web site over the past few weeks and in this thread from people stating that they will milk every free dollar they can get from the government, even fraudulently in some cases. That's pathetic and insulting to all honest workers. You, however, have commentary inconsistent with your own behavior - you and your kid still interact with your wife who is a high risk from bringing it home?

I have no idea what you mean by your last sentence. Was that intended as an insult, right after you told me not to insult anyone? (The question is rhetorical - don't bother responding as I am finished with this convesation.)


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Legalizeit0 said:


> If you are not collecting UI and still working, the PPP is designed to help you with the 1099 income you lost. I fully expect them to forgive my loan as I used it for mortgage/utilities. I'm not sure how OP got more than $1000.00 as that is what 1-employee businesses (RS drivers) get.


I dont get 1099 income, I am a self employed person 
You are confusing two programs, one is a disaster loan (EIDL) the limit on that loan is $2 million, and can be paid back over 30 years The EIDL offers a forgivable advance of up to $10000 ($1000 per employee) The second program is the PPP loan and it is intended to keep people on the payroll. It is for 2.5 x monthly payroll and is payable over 2 years, The PPP can be forgiven as long as the money is used for certain intended purposes, ( payroll and mortgage interest, rent & utilities, interest on debt (occurred before February 15, 2020). As long as 75% is used for payroll and the remainder for those specified purposes the loan is forgivable. If you dont meet the 75% threshold but the money is used for those specified purposes you can pay the loan back over 2 years, If you use the money for purposes other than those specified purposes, the loan can be called

I applied for both loans and for Unemployment. I havent seen the EIDL advance ($1000), and I was denied State unemployment benefits, I reapplied for for the Federal $600 unemployment benefit. I havent seen that either. My intent is to use PPP 100% for payroll . I have been out of work for 6 weeks now...so just 2 weeks to go to 75% and 4 more to go to 100% payroll If I get the $600 unemployment approved in that time frame I will have to decide what to do. But as I said in another post in another thread...I dont have a problem until I do. In any case, the money is in my business account and wont be transferred to my personal account until all the pieces fall in place. Right now my thought is that Im going back to work... Ill turn down the unemployment and use the PPP loan to make up the difference between what I make and what I was making BV (before virus) or perhaps Ill take the unemployment, and pay back the PPP loan

a note... If you read any of my previous posts on this subject, you know I have changed my my approach to this stuff. Im still learning how this stuff works and as I learn stuff, I fold that new knowledge into my planning


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## ldriva (Jan 23, 2015)

EastBayRides said:


> As I said, if you have an underlying condition (or related personal circumstance), it makes sense to stay home. Initially it made sense for everyone to stay home because we had no idea what was heading toward us, but now we know this is not nearly as bad as it might have been. The only reason I stayed home for two months is because I wanted to reduce risk to my wife. When she started going out to hang with her friends last week, I ended my isolation. You can't stay home forever, so all the sheltering does is delay the inevitable and subject yourself to longer-term financial insecurity. The first people willing to step outside are the first to take the jobs that are available. Someone has to work to pay for those sitting home watching TV all day while collecting their entitlements.
> 
> Don't listen to the epidemiologists whose oath is to save every life regardless the cost. They do not have your long-term interests in mind, just their oath and the dollars from the pharmaceutical companies and for-profit hospitals. And don't listen to flunkie journalists who couldn't pass a 7th grad math exam. They are only trying to sell clicks and buy votes in the November election.


This is what happens when you listen to too much propaganda.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

_Tron_ said:


> Exactly. 1% is very cheap money. But tell me, are you a sole proprietor? If not I can see how you could spend the money on something other than payroll. End of story.
> 
> But if you are pure IC it would seem that simply "cashing the check", i.e., spending the money on anything, or simply leaving it sitting in the bank, could be construed as payroll. Gray area with ICs.
> 
> ...


Spend on CAR UPGRADES!

PAY 1% INTEREST !


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

EastBayRides said:


> Was that intended as an insult


oh no, that would be against the rules here. I merely pointed out much of your reply and opinion were just wrong.

As I said you do you and cease ridiculing others who pay attn to the SAH orders and stay home. Nuff said


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

ldriva said:


> This is what happens when you listen to too much propaganda.


I have a M.Sc. in Biology, semi-retired. I read the primary literature, not MSM or political reports. What's your knowledge foundation? I only recently started driving X when I was in between clients, and I only joined this site to learn from those with more experience in this work. Fascinating how many epidemiologists and doctors are on this site and driving for Uber/Lyft. Helps explain why hospitals were unprepared for this crisis.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> but fat like 5mil minimum but like more like 10-1000million in liquid so yeah


anybody who has either 5 mil or a 100 m in unrestricted investments would NOT be a RS driver/delivery. Under $5m is lean? 



EastBayRides said:


> Helps explain why hospitals were unprepared for this crisis.


not true in our county barely 20-30 patients in the hospital. Perhaps you meant someplace else?


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

SHalester said:


> anybody who has either 5 mil or a 100 m in unrestricted investments would NOT be a RS driver/delivery. Under $5m is lean?
> 
> 
> not true in our county barely 20-30 patients in the hospital. Perhaps you meant someplace else?


Thanks for repeating what I said. I already predicted the ceiling for your liquid net worth. I was actually agreeing with you had you read my comment correctly, i guess the backhand comment is lost on you then. Dang :redface:


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Thanks for repeating what I said. I already predicted the ceiling for your liquid net worth. I was actually agreeing with you had you read my comment correctly, i guess the backhand comment is lost on you then. Dang :redface:


oh no, I figured it was all aimed at me. I just wanted to note, for the record, anybody with 5m invested isn't a driver. And yeah, even jointly we don't have 5 million. Saw your blurbs, they were received in full. So be happy.

One day I'll figure out why you and I are at odds. Besides you 'correcting' me one day not sure what your issue is.

AND I read most of the notes/replies here daily...in full... with exceptions of a few main forums that have no interest to me to kill time.

Have a nice day. This is where I would insert the purple eye roll dude, but for tone, balance and being nice I won't. ciao


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

SHalester said:


> oh no, I figured it was all aimed at me. I just wanted to note, for the record, anybody with 5m invested isn't a driver. And yeah, even jointly we don't have 5 million. Saw your blurbs, they were received in full. So be happy.
> 
> One day I'll figure out why you and I are at odds. Besides you 'correcting' me one day not sure what your issue is.
> 
> ...


Right and I said that, so you're just noting further and confirming what I already suspected about someone such as yourself despite all that toot of retiring early (still probably in mid to late fifties I bet) but somehow still getting unemployment when you don't "need it"    

or do you? &#129300;&#129300;&#129300;&#129300;

k thx bye!


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

EastBayRides said:


> As I said, if you have an underlying condition (or related personal circumstance), it makes sense to stay home. Initially it made sense for everyone to stay home because we had no idea what was heading toward us, but now we know this is not nearly as bad as it might have been. The only reason I stayed home for two months is because I wanted to reduce risk to my wife. When she started going out to hang with her friends last week, I ended my isolation. You can't stay home forever, so all the sheltering does is delay the inevitable and subject yourself to longer-term financial insecurity. The first people willing to step outside are the first to take the jobs that are available. Someone has to work to pay for those sitting home watching TV all day while collecting their entitlements.
> 
> Don't listen to the epidemiologists whose oath is to save every life regardless the cost. They do not have your long-term interests in mind, just their oath and the dollars from the pharmaceutical companies and for-profit hospitals. And don't listen to flunkie journalists who couldn't pass a 7th grad math exam. They are only trying to sell clicks and buy votes in the November election.


this is way off base.

1) we are not staying home to protect ourselves as much as we are staying home to protect others.
2) Its not as bad as we thought...Its worse (at least in the USA) We are 5% of the worlds population and have 25% of the cases and deaths
3) the folks staying at home are not taking anything from the folks going back to work
4) The doctors are not the policy makers, They present the data . and in this case the Trump Administration and the Congress and the Governors use that info along with other information (like economic data) to set policy. We should be using the data applied to our own situation to decide what to do for ourselves and our families. I sure wouldn't dismiss the advice of doctors
5) and if not for journalists we wouldnt know anything about this. Certainly we need to read and listen critically but that doesn't mean we should dismiss everything


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Right and I said that, so you're just noting further and confirming what I already suspected about someone such as yourself despite all that toot of retiring early (still probably in mid to late fifties I bet) but somehow still getting unemployment when you don't "need it"
> 
> or do you? &#129300;&#129300;&#129300;&#129300;
> 
> k thx bye!


Well, my age is in my profile, no secret there. Toot? Not sure about that, but I'm as honest as I can be here on what is an open forum that is real-time google indexed. I did retire early, around 54. And I have a sufficiently sized portfolio of unrestricted and restricted investments, that are well balanced and are slanted towards generating income. Also, either very conservative, or a few notches about conservative. All posted here before.

I also posted all about my UI and why i did it. Do I need it? Nope, freely admit that I still make more realized and unrealized portfolio income on almost a daily basis. I worked for over 40 years, 32yrs at some company. In entire career took maybe 1 week of UI when I was like 22 and before I started at the company (at 23) that I stayed with until 54ish.

And although I added my RS gigs to my UI app, they instead went with my last W2 job that ended exactly one year ago this week. From that job I get a whopping $66 per week. That triggered the $600 from the Feds. I'm not going online, so that amount takes care of what I was doing and maybe more. I figure I"m getting money back from a system I paid into for over 4 decades.

I don't need to do RS either, but I do for the schedule; money is secondary. Do I need the $666? Nope, our income has not changed at all. I receive the same investment income and wife unit is a hospital worker.

All above posted here and there multi times, so nothing new to see here.

Full caught up now, I hope.
&#129300;


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

SHalester said:


> Well, my age is in my profile, no secret there. Toot? Not sure about that, but I'm as honest as I can be here on what is an open forum that is real-time google indexed. I did retire early, around 54. And I have a sufficiently sized portfolio of unrestricted and restricted investments, that are well balanced and are slanted towards generating income. Also, either very conservative, or a few notches about conservative. All posted here before.
> 
> I also posted all about my UI and why i did it. Do I need it? Nope, freely admit that I still make more realized and unrealized portfolio income on almost a daily basis. I worked for over 40 years, 32yrs at some company. In entire career took maybe 1 week of UI when I was like 22 and before I started at the company (at 23) that I stayed with until 54ish.
> 
> ...


I don't actually do any stalking or read all over the forum like other pple might perceive (after all I was accused by a Texan that I stalk his posts) so no, didn't click your profile (don't care to) just like, your version of honest makes you sound a bit hooty tooty yes and for someone who lives in this area, at your age, that ain't much for bragging rights.

quite frankly being able to get someone 18 years younger than you to date you much less marry you is the biggest accomplishment I can see from my end &#129335;&#127995;‍♀&#129335;&#127995;‍♀.

and it's obvious that you need it even if you say you don't. If you didn't no matter how much you pay into it. You wouldn't take it. I know pple who don't take their benefits because they don't need it and rather other pple who do, be able to.

But then again she's sitting on eight figures so it could also be that level of comfort correlates with the amount in her pockets, or maybe judge of character, or both &#129300;&#129300;&#129300;&#129300;


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

oldfart said:


> this is way off base.
> 
> 1) we are not staying home to protect ourselves as much as we are staying home to protect others.
> 2) Its not as bad as we thought...Its worse (at least in the USA) We are 5% of the worlds population and have 25% of the cases and deaths
> ...


1. It was about preventing the collapse of for-profit hospitals that were unprepared and possessed minimal inventory. Some day the big one will emerge, but COVID-19 is not the big one. It made sense initially to be overly precautious but the time has passed.
2. It is not worse. We were told to expect 2% mortality rates, and we are seeing a fraction of one percent if you can trust any of the data. Look around the world and tell me people are dropping like flies. As for the numbers, no two countries or states are collecting the same data using the same methods, so there is no way you can say you know how many cases or deaths are attributable. 
3. Folks staying at home and fraudulently applying for handouts are hurting everyone for generations. People who are unproductive but capable are leaches living off of tax dollars, and rideshare drivers pay almost nothing in taxes after they expense everything. We will pay this off through higher taxes in the future. Some municipalities are issuing "social distancing" citations so they can take as much of your $1200 check as possible, and speeding citations are up as a means for generating lost tax revenue. These practices will expand once the country gets back to business. Your bank will increase fees, your state will increase fees, your hospital will increase fees, your dentist will increase fees...your grocer has already increased prices at all-time high rates.
4. If this were true, then every state, county, and the US would have similar policies because medical experts are the only group being relatively consistent (save life at any cost!). CNN would have you believe that we MUST listen to the doctors for only they know what is best for us. Doctors will ALWAYS lean in favor of protection without concern for cost. It's part of their oath and part of their learned behavior working in a for-profit healthcare system funded by insurance companies.
5. I'll give this one to you because I know nobody who has been diagnosed with COVID-19. MSM would have you believe people are dropping in the street like in a Hollywood movie. Mostly the media plays up the fear and conflict for clicks. Certainly not all journalists fall into this category. CNN and Fox do not have any of them on staff...they are political entertainers, many of whom are former politicians or the children of politicians. Nor should anyone follow the advice of Jared Kushner.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> quite frankly being able to get someone 18 years younger than you to date you much less marry you is the biggest accomplishment I can see from my end &#129335;&#127995;‍♀&#129335;&#127995;‍♀.


well, I have admitted I'm a dog. But I do see WHY you are saying that. Be nice! It really isn't hard, try it.

Reading many forums and threads is stalking? I guess if one has never been in any other online discussion forum....ever..

BTW, a fact is lurkers out number posters by like 10 to 1. Just saying.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

[QUOTE="SHalester, post: 6217072, member: 184424"
well, I have admitted I'm a dog. But I do see WHY you are saying that. Be nice! It really isn't hard, try it.

Reading many forums and threads is stalking? I guess if one has never been in any other online discussion forum....ever..

BTW, a fact is lurkers out number posters by like 10 to 1. Just saying.
[/QUOTE

[QUOTE="sellkatsell44, post: 6216637, member: 32460"
I don’t actually do any stalking or read all over the forum like other pple might perceive (after all I was accused by a Texan that I stalk his posts) so no, didn’t click your profile (don’t care to) just like, your version of honest makes you sound a bit hooty tooty yes and for someone who lives in this area, at your age, that ain’t much for bragging rights.

quite frankly being able to get someone 18 years younger than you to date you much less marry you is the biggest accomplishment I can see from my end 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️.

and it’s obvious that you need it even if you say you don’t. If you didn’t no matter how much you pay into it. You wouldn’t take it. I know pple who don’t take their benefits because they don’t need it and rather other pple who do, be able to.

But then again she’s sitting on eight figures so it could also be that level of comfort correlates with the amount in her pockets, or maybe judge of character, or both 🤔🤔🤔🤔
[/QUOTE

—————————————

This is my entire post.

your reply to it was     worthy as

1) you didn’t read my reply to make that idiotic comment to my reply of idgaf (felt good writing out all your accomplishments?) I only pick up bits here and there and if I picked up that much you probably wrote 100000x that because I don’t see all posts that go through UP

and 2) I don’t know your age (I guessed) and no, I didn’t click your profile nor do I care to.

I just am pointing how how you toot your own horn and you replied right into my hand.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

bravo.

ps I have no idea what the f you mean by just saying. In order to do so I’ll have to be your type of looney.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> felt good writing out all your accomplishments?


I only did that to 'catch' you up. and to reduce you infusing something that isn't there, wasn't posted.

But I see you like to circle around and 'round. OK, I'll be the adult and let you have the last word. i learned to toot from you, btw.

Nuff said in this thread.

Have a great nice and hopefully sun shine will light you up tomorrow. May all your dreams come true. ciao


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

SHalester said:


> I only did that to 'catch' you up. and to reduce you infusing something that isn't there, wasn't posted.
> 
> But I see you like to circle around and 'round. OK, I'll be the adult and let you have the last word. i learned to toot from you, btw.
> 
> ...


Lmao. Sure.
If you were a real adult, as you claim, you would walk away and not reply with this reply.

If you're going to be childish, at least own up to it.

What's worse then someone having a childish moment. A senior (old folk) having a childish moment pretending to be the bigger person    

kthxbye


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Just LOL at people applying for government assistance _hoping_ to get denied. Who takes the time to apply for something hoping to _not_ get it? &#129335;‍♂

:laugh:&#128514;&#128128;

Back on topic: good job OP, don't screw yourself.


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Lmao. Sure.
> If you were a real adult, as you claim, you would walk away and not reply with this reply.
> 
> If you're going to be childish, at least own up to it.
> ...


Like many, he has too much time on his hands these days. In between writing extensive essays about himself as if we care, he argues for the sake of arguing, then tends to follow up with some California-style passive aggressive insult like "be nice, it's not hard to do" or "OK I'll let you have the last word" as an attempt to get in the last word. I wish someone would start writing about driving for Uber on this site.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

ColdRider said:


> Back on topic: good job OP, don't screw yourself.


Thank you for the ack. This thread has been a bit cathartic for me, which is why I made the post. Fact is, it was really hard to return that money. My mind was rationalizing like mad to come up with reasons that the money was now mine and that somehow it was OK to keep it. Luckily, the angel on one shoulder silenced the devil on the other shoulder.

I was hoping that getting a few attaboys from the community would help take away the sting of returning that juicy pile of cash. It did. Thanks everyone.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Right and I said that, so you're just noting further and confirming what I already suspected about someone such as yourself despite all that toot of retiring early (still probably in mid to late fifties I bet) but somehow still getting unemployment when you don't "need it"
> 
> or do you? &#129300;&#129300;&#129300;&#129300;
> 
> k thx bye!


We've had at least one other poster who bragged about being retired and very successful financially yet he was still driving for Uber.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

sellkatsell44 said:


> I don't actually do any stalking or read all over the forum like other pple might perceive (after all I was accused by a Texan that I stalk his posts) so no, didn't click your profile (don't care to) just like, your version of honest makes you sound a bit hooty tooty yes and for someone who lives in this area, at your age, that ain't much for bragging rights.
> 
> quite frankly being able to get someone 18 years younger than you to date you much less marry you is the biggest accomplishment I can see from my end &#129335;&#127995;‍♀&#129335;&#127995;‍♀.
> 
> ...


I just remembered one other thing about our now-vanished previous "retired" poster. He also bragged about having a much younger wife. Coincidence?


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

goneubering said:


> I just remembered one other thing about our now-vanished previous "retired" poster. He also bragged about having a much younger wife. Coincidence?


&#129335;&#127995;‍♀

I don't notice that. that poster must not post as much about "retired" and "making lots of money" etc, as much as @SHalester as I don't notice.

then again I don't read every post/thread in this place. some people can. kudos to them.


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## ABQuber (Jan 30, 2019)

2 things here.

1) The $1000 grant specifically said it could go to business debt. I had a $1500 car repair I’m still making payments on, so I put it towards that.

2) When I certify for UI each week, it only asks if I’m getting a pension previously unreported. There are 6 questions and that’s the only one asking about additional income. Other 5 pertain to have I worked, can I work, did I work, etc.

At least in my state, I don’t think I’m hiding anything.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

sellkatsell44 said:


> &#129335;&#127995;‍♀
> 
> I don't notice that. that poster must not post as much about "retired" and "making lots of money" etc, as much as @SHalester as I don't notice.
> 
> then again I don't read every post/thread in this place. some people can. kudos to them.


NOBODY can read every post.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

ABQuber said:


> 1) The $1000 grant specifically said it could go to business debt. I had a $1500 car repair I'm still making payments on, so I put it towards that.


It sounds like you're talking about the EIDL "grant" which does come as a 1K dose. If so, I am construing the same as you and not showing it as income. But also, it came through outside the window of my UI payments.

If it happens to be PPP you're talking about, yes, you can spend it on anything, but it is only "granted" if you spend it on payroll. Regardless, it may be seen by UI as income. The wording as you describe it from your state may be a loophole though. In CA there is a list of items that count as income, but, the wording in the PP above refers to the list as _examples_, and the sentence structure clearly is asking the person to list _any_ (not specifically exempted) income.

Having said that, I suspect that a significant % of those that "double-dip" will get away with it. I just try to be mindful of the Level 2 Chinese curse: "*May the authorities become aware of you*."


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## Working4peanuts (Jan 16, 2018)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...r-spent-emergency-loan-Rolex-Rolls-Royce.html


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## NicFit (Jan 18, 2020)

This is a grey area, I got both PPP and PUA but I still can’t access my PUA, it may be weeks because I’m waiting on California edd to send me a debit card. I have to use the PPP now or my bills will come up short, waiting on the PUA is taking too long, also they used my net for the PPP and it doesn’t cover my expenses, it was too small because I used had a lot of deductions. The edd haven’t made the rules yet for self employed income but if the used gross then I can report the PPP to them and they’ll reduce my benefits so I can still get the $600 bonus. If they use net I won’t ask for forgiveness and say it all went to utilities as they may want back all for the 10 weeks the PPP is suppose to cover. The $1k grant I got too, I’m not even sure where that falls, the PPP is suppose to be 10 weeks of pay but there nothing about what the $1k is besides a grant


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