# I-Team Investigation: Underaged Uber, teens using ride-sharing service



## arto71 (Sep 20, 2014)

*http://www.kesq.com/news/investigat...er-teens-using-ride-sharing-service/151809670*

PALM DESERT, Calif. - Seventeen-year-old T.J. is a senior in high school who says he's been using ride sharing services like Uber since he was 14 years old. He says it's come in handy especially when he was an underclassman because he didn't have his driver's license yet. He says, in his mind, safety isn't a concern. "I don't feel unsafe and my parents don't feel unsafe about me getting in an Uber."

Ride sharing services like Uber and Lyft have made it easy to get a ride at the touch of an app and a credit card on file. Both make it clear, you have to be 18 to sign up, but that hasn't stopped underage riders from downloading, checking the box that says they're of age, adding their ATM card or their parents, then using the service.

*An Uber spokeswoman responded to this very topic saying:

"Users agree to our terms and conditions when they download the app. We expect them to adhere to them. If we were to discover that someone under 18 had set up an Uber account, the account would be deactivated."*

But, how does Uber find out if a minor is using their services? And, would they actually do something about it? They are making money off every ride regardless of age. Does the responsibility then come down to the driver who's picking up?

Jami Gomez, an Uber driver says she hasn't been told to check identification, "I have not seen any strict regulations as far as to what I am supposed to do or what I'm not supposed to do. It's just a personal preference I guess that I would just make sure that every aspect of the ride is safe."

Gomez, has been driving for Uber for about a year now and says she's noticed an up-tick in the amount of minors using the service. She's picked up teens from school, after school activities and parties.

"To be honest for the most part it is safe, you are logged as far as to where you are going where your destination is, who's picking you up, there's a picture of who your driver is so it's safe as far as knowing point A to point B."

But is that enough? The argument that Cab companies are held to stricter guidelines than ride sharing services like Uber continues. Cabs are overseen by law enforcement. Uber's cars and drivers have no special licensing requirements, no metering and rate standards, no twice yearly police inspection or special training. Also, at this point drivers do not partake in drug or alcohol screenings. Uber relies on their background checks.

Uber spokesman Taylor Bennett says, "Unlike the taxi industry, our background checking process and standards are consistent across the United States and often more rigorous than what is required to become a taxi driver."

When asked if he's ever had a problem with an Uber driver or seen strange behavior, 17-year-old T.J. said, "Yea one time with my friend and she like almost turned onto the wrong side of the road, that was pretty scary, she didn't seem all there. She seemed like she might have been under the influence of something."

As a parent of a teen who's used Uber, hearing that bit of information is terrifying. After all, we are all *regardless of age* relying on a safe sober driver to transport us.

Ride sharing services and cab companies have had problems with drivers who have broken the law. That's just one of several reasons local mom Jenny Johnson has concerns when it comes to allowing her teen daughter to use Uber even-though she says, it could help with her family's daily transportation issues.

"It's busy, we're constantly trying to coordinate rides, I have a foreign exchange student also so I actually have 5 girls in the house and one has practice and one doesn't, one has piano, one has a voice lesson, so when you have five people plus a husband and a wife 7 schedules, it's really hard."

Hard but not impossible and according to Johnson not enough of a reason to risk her daughter's safety. As for T.J., he says despite the one strange driver he encountered he will continue to use Uber without hesitation.

"If somebody's drinking then it's obviously the safer way. I mean if somebody can pick me up and take me somewhere, I'd rather do that cause you're with a friend, but it that's not available then Uber is a fine second choice."

Since strict regulations are not in place to keep minors from using Uber here are some tips to help keep teen users safe. First, ride with a buddy. Second, let someone know that you are taking an Uber and where you're going. Third, the Uber driver is not your friend, restrict the amount of personal information you give the driver. Fourth, if there's a problem notify Uber immediately and the police.


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## Sluber (Nov 26, 2015)

arto71 said:


> *http://www.kesq.com/news/investigat...er-teens-using-ride-sharing-service/151809670*
> 
> PALM DESERT, Calif. - Seventeen-year-old T.J. is a senior in high school who says he's been using ride sharing services like Uber since he was 14 years old. He says it's come in handy especially when he was an underclassman because he didn't have his driver's license yet. He says, in his mind, safety isn't a concern. "I don't feel unsafe and my parents don't feel unsafe about me getting in an Uber."
> 
> ...


not only is the policy with underage riders vague...the same with this article....they just take no accountability ever....leave it up to the driver...let them deal with it....thanks for posting arto71


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## UberIsAllFubared (Feb 24, 2016)

Sluber said:


> not only is the policy with underage riders vague...the same with this article....they just take no accountability ever....leave it up to the driver...let them deal with it....thanks for posting arto71


There is nothing vague about it at all. As of July 2016 it is illegal. Not only can you be cited, but think of the insurance liability now.


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## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

Uber does not want to assume responsibility which means the responsibility and liability is yours...


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## Bojingles (Sep 18, 2015)

Don't pickup minors period. Leave that responsibility to the parents. Everyone wants to use the drivers. Such B. S. Something happens and you are at fault.Not Worth it. Fraudulent account when I see the passenger is a Minor.


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## Shelovespets (Aug 27, 2016)

Not worth it. It does get frustrating during the week between 3 & 4.


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## RodimusUber (Oct 6, 2016)

Sluber said:


> not only is the policy with underage riders vague...the same with this article....they just take no accountability ever....leave it up to the driver...let them deal with it....thanks for posting arto71


I don't have a problem with them leaving it up to us. We're the front line. Unless they start requiring a selfie or scanning IDs before allowing each ride (which would kill our business pretty quickly), then Uber can't prevent this. Us drivers are the logical checkpoint. Decline the ride and report them. Simple.


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## uberfraud (Sep 22, 2016)

Can't wait for CPUC to fine Uber for millions of $'s for not doing enough to discourage unaccompanied minors. They maybe, just maybe they will learn. Turning a blind eye on lots of things will cost you in the long run. Idiots.


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## LA Dispatcher (Feb 26, 2016)

I've canceled on parents calling to tell me I'm picking her son and his friends. I didn't even bother explaining policy and reported fraudulent during cancellation.


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## Shelovespets (Aug 27, 2016)

Very little information provided from Lyft as well. I have a contact person and he knew nothing about it. Finally got information when I sent in a question. Riders definitely seem unaware. Just hate driving to a destination and finding them to be a minor. They just cancel and request another ride. I get the ping but ignore.


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## Bojingles (Sep 18, 2015)

Business is dying . Cheaper than cheap fares,uber pool matching trips now I'm dealing with the worst. I was full time working five to six days / week now I'm working 3 days..


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## saucy05 (Aug 23, 2015)

Then we should not be punished for canceling rides. Uber is indirectly pressuring us to perform illegal act by holding some vague cancellation rate over our heads.


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## LASAC_BER (May 19, 2016)

Drivers are 'kites' that get cut loose every time uber wishes. There is no sense of loyalty from uber toward their 'partners.'


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## Awesome2 (Jan 16, 2015)

I now send a text before leaving to destination Please keep in mind, no one under the age of 18 without an Adult is to be allowed to use Uber. Rides will be cancelled upon arrival. Since I been texting this message I find out that the rider that cancel is going to a high school or leaving one.


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## LostOne (Aug 13, 2016)

uberfraud said:


> Can't wait for CPUC to fine Uber for millions of $'s for not doing enough to discourage unaccompanied minors. They maybe, just maybe they will learn. Turning a blind eye on lots of things will cost you in the long run. Idiots.


It will be hard to do that because Uber will toss it back to the responsibility of the driver ( independent contractor ) which only uses Ubers service for a percentage of there take. That's why Uber contracts drivers to cut 90% of there responsibility. The whole ride share thing is still in a gray area of the laws and Uber knows this and takes advantage of it


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

UberIsAllFubared said:


> There is nothing vague about it at all. As of July 2016 it is illegal. Not only can you be cited, but think of the insurance liability now.


I report every single minor that tries to get in my car but Uber does not deactivate them for that.
Today I had 3 kids together that did not see to be older than 13 or 14. I am fed up with it.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

saucy05 said:


> Then we should not be punished for canceling rides. Uber is indirectly pressuring us to perform illegal act by holding some vague cancellation rate over hour heads.


Yes, and they won't even add a cancellation option for minors.


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## saucy05 (Aug 23, 2015)

Too Many Miles said:


> Yes, and they won't even add a cancellation option for minors.


Uber spies please pass the message along to your superiors.


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## mandreyka (Sep 25, 2015)

Uber can care a less


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## LowRiderHyundai5000 (Jun 23, 2016)

The driver quotes will prob be deactivated for this.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Too Many Miles said:


> I report every single minor that tries to get in my car but Uber does not deactivate them for that.


. . . wait, _*what?!*_


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## UberIsAllFubared (Feb 24, 2016)

saucy05 said:


> Then we should not be punished for canceling rides. Uber is indirectly pressuring us to perform illegal act by holding some vague cancellation rate over our heads.


This is exactly why I will sue the shit out of uber if deactivate me for cancelling a ride.


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## DoUHaveAnyWater? (Sep 7, 2016)

The answer is so very easy. When a rider submits a complaint to Uber about a driver, the driver is immediately deactivated while Uber "investigates". All they have to do is do the same to riders.

Add a "Rider appears underage" button to the app. The driver uses it whenever a suspect rider admits being underage or refuses to show ID. Uber then immediately deactivates the rider and contacts them to tell them that their account is on hold. They can have their access restored to the app by visiting an Uber center and showing an Uberdrone two forms of ID, including a government-issued photo ID.

Oh, and cancelling underage riders wouldn't count against drivers as now.

Too easy.


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## DoUHaveAnyWater? (Sep 7, 2016)

arto71 said:


> Since strict regulations are not in place to keep minors from using Uber here are some tips to help keep teen users safe.


Nonsense. Total load of codswallop. Regulations can't be strict, or not strict. Either there is a regulation or there isn't. And, in CA, there is. CPUC regulations prohibit minors from being transported without an adult present. Looks like the person who wrote the article should have done just that little bit more research.

Why is it that no reporter, ever, is able to produce error-free work when reporting about Uber and rideshare? Is is _that_ complicated/difficult?


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## UberIsAllFubared (Feb 24, 2016)

DoUHaveAnyWater? said:


> Nonsense. Total load of codswallop. Regulations can't be strict, or not strict. Either there is a regulation or it isn't. And, in CA, there is. CPUC regulations prohibit minors from being transported without an adult present. Looks like the person who wrote the article should have done just that little bit more research.
> 
> Why is it that no reporter, ever, is able to produce error-free work whem reporting about Uber and rideshare? Is is _that_ complicated/difficult?


because we get the z team journalist who graduated from University of Phoenix reporting on uber.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Passengers cannot sue Uber when you are rapped, beat up, kidnapped or forced to do a Hilary on your driver. It's in thier new TOS.


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## Lailamay (Oct 11, 2016)

Minors are always using uber and lyft. I've transported a few myself during the morning and when school had been let out. I'm no longer doing so, but in the process I tell the teens that most likely people will report their account or refuse to give them a ride. I one star and write in "minor", not that it probably helps, but just in case. But many kids take uber/lyft to school and I feel bad canceling so I don't. Def don't want to get sued so it's not happening again. Luckily there were no accidents or problems on those trips!

But my question is where does the responsibility fall on uber if something was to happen? I do not ID anyone simply because that's weird and I myself get mistaken as a teen when I don't wear makeup. How do you "decide" if someone is under aged unless you're picking them up from a high school or it's very clear? It could be disrespectful to some and mess with ratings to question their legality unless it's brought up in casual convo (but the ride most likely would have begun by then). College students look young as well and not all are 18 yet, so what do you suggest? Cancel when in doubt? Or Risk it all (dramatic)?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Lailamay said:


> Minors are always using uber and lyft. I've transported a few myself during the morning and when school had been let out. I'm no longer doing so, but in the process I tell the teens that most likely people will report their account or refuse to give them a ride. I one star and write in "minor", not that it probably helps, but just in case. But many kids take uber/lyft to school and I feel bad canceling so I don't. Def don't want to get sued so it's not happening again. Luckily there were no accidents or problems on those trips!
> 
> But my question is where does the responsibility fall on uber if something was to happen? I do not ID anyone simply because that's weird and I myself get mistaken as a teen when I don't wear makeup. How do you "decide" if someone is under aged unless you're picking them up from a high school or it's very clear? It could be disrespectful to some and mess with ratings to question their legality unless it's brought up in casual convo (but the ride most likely would have begun by then). College students look young as well and not all are 18 yet, so what do you suggest? Cancel when in doubt? Or Risk it all (dramatic)?


The last kid I carded subsequently made a false allegation against me that I had another person riding along with me when I arrived at his pickup. I arrived at the pickup, carded him and he said he had no ID. I refused him the ride and before I could cancel it, he cancelled and then sent the false report in to Uber. He had said at the roadside that he was going to "**** me up with Uber". Uber then temporarily deactivated me.

So... no more youngsters in the car, thanks. If they look under 18 then I keep on going, no questions asked. It's a shame that the badly behaved ones have to spoil it for the rest of them but I don't care - unfortunately doing this you have to protect yourself, your car and your rating, and that goes above all else.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

elelegido said:


> The last kid I carded subsequently made a false allegation against me that I had another person riding along with me when I arrived at his pickup. I arrived at the pickup, carded him and he said he had no ID. I refused him the ride and before I could cancel it, he cancelled and then sent the false report in to Uber. He had said at the roadside that he was going to "**** me up with Uber". Uber then temporarily deactivated me.


That is royally F'ed up!


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## Lailamay (Oct 11, 2016)

elelegido said:


> The last kid I carded subsequently made a false allegation against me that I had another person riding along with me when I arrived at his pickup. I arrived at the pickup, carded him and he said he had no ID. I refused him the ride and before I could cancel it, he cancelled and then sent the false report in to Uber. He had said at the roadside that he was going to "**** me up with Uber". Uber then temporarily deactivated me.
> 
> So... no more youngsters in the car, thanks. If they look under 18 then I keep on going, no questions asked. It's a shame that the badly behaved ones have to spoil it for the rest of them but I don't care - unfortunately doing this you have to protect yourself, your car and your rating, and that goes above all else.


Wow, okay! Thanks for that insight. This post alone made me against picking up anymore minors, but that's definitely a boost. Thank you!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Lailamay said:


> Wow, okay! Thanks for that insight. This post alone made me against picking up anymore minors, but that's definitely a boost. Thank you!


Of the three false reports that have been made against me, two were by minors. Kids don't have the maturity to realize that their little pranks can cost drivers their livelihoods. There is no way that any sensible driver should even consider picking up minors.


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## uberfraud (Sep 22, 2016)

LA Dispatcher said:


> I've canceled on parents calling to tell me I'm picking her son and his friends. I didn't even bother explaining policy and reported fraudulent during cancellation.


So Uber relies on "us" the drivers to enforce this rule because their defense, it is under the users or passengers terms of conditions. If that is the case, does a driver get compensated for his or her time? On this basis alone, we should get some kind of compensation for loss of revenue in my opinion.

Uber can do more to remind its passengers that "minors" are not allowed by a simple programming change. Multiply one uncompensated cancelled ride by the thousands of drivers? Thousands of drivers are losing a lot of money.


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## uberfraud (Sep 22, 2016)

LA Dispatcher said:


> I've canceled on parents calling to tell me I'm picking her son and his friends. I didn't even bother explaining policy and reported fraudulent during cancellation.


Imagine a driver doing a self perceived "good deed" by picking up the unaccompanied minor passenger for what ever reason. (2am, bad part of town, just want the kid to go home safe) and the kid maybe drunk or high on drugs and makes false accusations?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

uberfraud said:


> Imagine a driver doing a self perceived "good deed" by picking up the unaccompanied minor passenger for what ever reason. (2am, bad part of town, just want the kid to go home safe) and the kid maybe drunk or high on drugs and makes false accusations?


With Uber, it's deactivate the driver first, ask questions later. Same with law enforcement. Kid alleges something; lock up the driver first, ask questions later. For those reasons, drivers must leave kids where they are, no matter what the circumstances the kid(s) are in. It's not the drivers' problem, and there is no reason for them to make it their problem.


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## Lailamay (Oct 11, 2016)

Even with everything said. I'm not picking up anyone from schools or taking anyone to school, but in cases where schools are not involved, How to you assume age? Based off of looks alone? I can safely assume an age range for guys, but for women I'm always off. I myself appear to look like a 17yr old and I'm almost 24. I just don't know how to safely go about taking people to and from concerts or whatever. This sucks a bit


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## OCuber (Feb 5, 2016)

arto71 said:


> *http://www.kesq.com/news/investigat...er-teens-using-ride-sharing-service/151809670*
> 
> PALM DESERT, Calif. - Seventeen-year-old T.J. is a senior in high school who says he's been using ride sharing services like Uber since he was 14 years old. He says it's come in handy especially when he was an underclassman because he didn't have his driver's license yet. He says, in his mind, safety isn't a concern. "I don't feel unsafe and my parents don't feel unsafe about me getting in an Uber."
> 
> ...


Amen bro...and a 17 yr old girl raped by Uber driver in OC.
WTF...


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## Hans Über (Apr 24, 2016)

uber should not let people under 18 have accounts, if someone (a parent) uses their account to have us pick up and transport their kid not only are they responsible but I will report them to child services. I come from carnie stock but guessing ages and weight must skip a generation. Any shit storm comes down on me, I will sue the shit out of uber. They are responsible for minors not using this service.


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## uberfraud (Sep 22, 2016)

Lailamay said:


> Even with everything said. I'm not picking up anyone from schools or taking anyone to school, but in cases where schools are not involved, How to you assume age? Based off of looks alone? I can safely assume an age range for guys, but for women I'm always off. I myself appear to look like a 17yr old and I'm almost 24. I just don't know how to safely go about taking people to and from concerts or whatever. This sucks a bit


My uncle is terrible in judging looks. He often complains to me that the grocery store no longer cards him when he does beer runs for me. He insist he looks 20 years old.

I said, yeah 59 years ago perhaps.


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## uberfraud (Sep 22, 2016)

DoUHaveAnyWater? said:


> The answer is so very easy. When a rider submits a complaint to Uber about a driver, the driver is immediately deactivated while Uber "investigates". All they have to do is do the same to riders.
> 
> Add a "Rider appears underage" button to the app. The driver uses it whenever a suspect rider admits being underage or refuses to show ID. Uber then immediately deactivates the rider and contacts them to tell them that their account is on hold. They can have their access restored to the app by visiting an Uber center and showing an Uberdrone two forms of ID, including a government-issued photo ID.
> 
> ...


Ther you go Uber.


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## nickguyver (Mar 1, 2015)

I drive kids on Select all the time. Maybe if select had any real demand id turn em down but most the time they are going from mommy's house in SM to daddy's in Hollywood. So uh. Yea hop in slugger. Hope you don't mind listening to Zed's dead and asap rocky cuz you definitely aren't picking the music or route and yes the 405 to the 101 in heavy traffic is the best way haha


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## Nathan Diaz (Apr 20, 2016)

I've been driving minors since I started. Who cares. Sometimes to school. Sometimes to afternoon parties. They just need to get places.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

We should all be emailing the author telling her how irresponsible she is for not citing the State law and the penalties a driver could face.


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

elelegido said:


> With Uber, it's deactivate the driver first, ask questions later. Same with law enforcement. Kid alleges something; lock up the driver first, ask questions later. For those reasons, drivers must leave kids where they are, no matter what the circumstances the kid(s) are in. It's not the drivers' problem, and there is no reason for them to make it their problem.


You could easily call the police to come to a welfare check on the child.


Nathan Diaz said:


> I've been driving minors since I started. Who cares. Sometimes to school. Sometimes to afternoon parties. They just need to get places.


And the village idiot comes out, proclaiming how he is cool breaking the law and Uber's policy.


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

UberIsAllFubared said:


> This is exactly why I will sue the shit out of uber if deactivate me for cancelling a ride.


Ditto


DoUHaveAnyWater? said:


> The answer is so very easy. When a rider submits a complaint to Uber about a driver, the driver is immediately deactivated while Uber "investigates". All they have to do is do the same to riders.
> 
> Add a "Rider appears underage" button to the app. The driver uses it whenever a suspect rider admits being underage or refuses to show ID. Uber then immediately deactivates the rider and contacts them to tell them that their account is on hold. They can have their access restored to the app by visiting an Uber center and showing an Uberdrone two forms of ID, including a government-issued photo ID.
> 
> ...


Oh, it's too hard for the billion dollar tech company to make coding changes to there app service


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## RodimusUber (Oct 6, 2016)

Nathan Diaz said:


> I've been driving minors since I started. Who cares. Sometimes to school. Sometimes to afternoon parties. They just need to get places.


I usually offer them a beer from the small cooler I keep at my feet.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

RodimusUber said:


> I usually offer them a beer from the small cooler I keep at my feet.


SMH. You should _never _offer freebies at these rates.


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## uberxreallysux (Apr 19, 2016)

uber strike said:


> Uber does not want to assume responsibility which means the responsibility and liability is yours...


If something does happen we can sue uber for allowing a minor to have an account and drivers is responsible to check ID.


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## uberfraud (Sep 22, 2016)

nickguyver said:


> I drive kids on Select all the time. Maybe if select had any real demand id turn em down but most the time they are going from mommy's house in SM to daddy's in Hollywood. So uh. Yea hop in slugger. Hope you don't mind listening to Zed's dead and asap rocky cuz you definitely aren't picking the music or route and yes the 405 to the 101 in heavy traffic is the best way haha


Jokes on you pal.


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## BAKAD (Feb 22, 2016)

*Minors requesting rides are rampant in South Florida.* Sometimes 40% to 60% of the requests in some subdivisions in the morning are kids wanting rides to high school. It is crazy here.

There has been articles by teachers in the paper praising this with Uber saying nothing that this is against their rules, turning a blind eye.

Uber is getting a free ride by not providing the insurance umbrella to cover the teens & drivers. *It's all about the $$$$$ they save. *

*The driver is taking all the risk. *​
Uber is doing nothing to discourage this, in fact, one could argue Uber is encouraging this.

*What an unethical a way to run a company!*​


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## WeirdBob (Jan 2, 2016)

elelegido said:


> SMH. You should _never _offer freebies at these rates.


Damn skippy. If someone wants a shot of my 5 O' Clock Vodka...five bucks, buckaroo! A Solo cup of OJ or Squirt will run an extra $3. Gotta get that mon-eee!


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

^^^ Now that's getting your Hustle on.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Nathan Diaz said:


> I've been driving minors since I started. Who cares. Sometimes to school. Sometimes to afternoon parties. They just need to get places.


Drive safe pal. If you get in any accident you are on the hook for their injuries. Neither Uber or your rideshare insurance would cover them.

Cant believe you do that for ninety cents a mile


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Fireguy50 said:


> how he is cool breaking the law and Uber's policy.


He probably parks outside your local high school looking for fares.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Greetings,

I am a concerned driver about the increase in unaccompanied minors requesting rides thru your service. We are told as drivers not to take these rides but it is unclear how to confirm the passenger is a minor or not. Because your company doesnt communicate the need for this, when I ask for ID my ratings suffer from riders offended I would ask for an ID. 

I would ask that you guys would add a cancellation reason that states "Passenger is an unaccompanied minor" this cancellation ideally would not count against our cancellation rate. To prevent abuse you could even limit this to a certain number of uses per day. 

Plesse help your partners continue to provide a safe ride experience.


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## WeirdBob (Jan 2, 2016)

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> ^^^ Now that's getting your Hustle on.


I'm not totally about the money. I'll let them hit the blunt for free, but only AFTER school hours. And only one from the cheap bag - the Sour Diesel and Grandaddy Purps are reserved for good tippers.


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## Nathan Diaz (Apr 20, 2016)

Shangsta said:


> Drive safe pal. If you get in any accident you are on the hook for their injuries. Neither Uber or your rideshare insurance would cover them.
> 
> Cant believe you do that for ninety cents a mile


I heard that, but it seems strange I would be responsible, since I'm not required to ask for the age. Anyway it doesn't happen that often, I have +1500 rides, it's very unlikely something happens just when I'm driving a minor. I still believe we have a case though, either we are required by uber to act as bouncers, or we can't be responsible if they are minor. I'll just say "He looked like 22!" Lol


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

WeirdBob said:


> I'm not totally about the money. I'll let them hit the blunt for free, but only AFTER school hours. And only one from the cheap bag - the Sour Diesel and Grandaddy Purps are reserved for good tippers.



SNORT!


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## ALEAX (Jan 20, 2015)

Bottom line is Uber will hold you responsible if you get in an accident or have an "issue" with a minor in the car. Uber's insurance will not pay if you violate the user agreement. Sorry if someone has already covered this.


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## ChinatownJake (Jan 3, 2016)

This law and enforcement are so blatantly disregarded, it's laughable. Beyond the IPO-salivating, could-care-less halls of Uber's offices. Example: At a certain LAUSD school, at end of a day of classes, the Uber/Lyft cars wheel in, one after the other, to pick up under-18 student(s). Too many to count sometimes.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

ChinatownJake said:


> This law and enforcement are so blatantly disregarded, it's laughable. Beyond the IPO-salivating, could-care-less halls of Uber's offices. Example: At a certain LAUSD school, at end of a day of classes, the Uber/Lyft cars wheel in, one after the other, to pick up under-18 student(s). Too many to count sometimes.


. . . let us learn from others' mistakes, then.


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## SoiCowboy (Sep 17, 2016)

Well, there's got to be a sh*t load of drivers out there doing it. I get minors all the time and the minors say they were not aware. I report them to Uber sending a snapshot of them from the rear-facing dashcam.


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## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

"When asked if he's ever had a problem with an Uber driver or seen strange behavior, 17-year-old T.J. said, "Yea one time with my friend and she like almost turned onto thewrong side of the road, that was pretty scary, she didn't seem all there. She seemed like she might have been under the influence of something."

That's why minors shouldn't be allowed to ride. They speculate nonsense and then adults who got real responsibilities get in trouble.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

uber strike said:


> Uber does not want to assume responsibility which means the responsibility and liability is yours...


No doubt your auto insurance would reject your claim for doing something illegal (in California, at least, where it is forbidden). Uber purposely leaves it up to the driver because many will ignore the law and try to skirt it. Until an accident happens and they end up in deep doo-doo.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Bojingles said:


> Don't pickup minors period. Leave that responsibility to the parents. Everyone wants to use the drivers. Such B. S. Something happens and you are at fault.Not Worth it. Fraudulent account when I see the passenger is a Minor.


There should also be a specific one for minor.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

RodimusUber said:


> I don't have a problem with them leaving it up to us. We're the front line. Unless they start requiring a selfie or scanning IDs before allowing each ride (which would kill our business pretty quickly), then Uber can't prevent this. Us drivers are the logical checkpoint. Decline the ride and report them. Simple.


The problem is the millions of drivers they add each day don't know about this issue and they will continue picking up children and NOT avoiding the 2:30-3:30 witching hour... Until they start to get a clue and look for forums like this and find out it is illegal. It is something that Uber needs to inform all drivers.


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## UXDriver (May 20, 2015)

Too Many Miles said:


> Yes, and they won't even add a cancellation option for minors.


No show


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

elelegido said:


> SMH. You should _never _offer freebies at these rates.


It's not "_free_"
The beers help sell the $5 soft Pretzels + $2 Cheese or Mustard (optional)!
Didn't you get your Uber underage transport package yet?!


SoiCowboy said:


> Well, there's got to be a sh*t load of drivers out there doing it. I get minors all the time and the minors say they were not aware. I report them to Uber sending a snapshot of them from the rear-facing dashcam.


Yep, I always point my camera towards trouble, CYA!


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Too Many Miles said:


> Yes, and they won't even add a cancellation option for minors.


Ergo, they are complicit in the act! Until they regularly remind both pax and drivers that they can not, under any circumstance, drive unaccompanied minors, their deep pockets will one day be the target of an angry parent whose child was hurt/killed in an Uber accident.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

DoUHaveAnyWater? said:


> The answer is so very easy. When a rider submits a complaint to Uber about a driver, the driver is immediately deactivated while Uber "investigates". All they have to do is do the same to riders.
> 
> Add a "Rider appears underage" button to the app. The driver uses it whenever a suspect rider admits being underage or refuses to show ID. Uber then immediately deactivates the rider and contacts them to tell them that their account is on hold. They can have their access restored to the app by visiting an Uber center and showing an Uberdrone two forms of ID, including a government-issued photo ID.
> 
> ...


UBERDRONE LOLOLOLOLOL!


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

DoUHaveAnyWater? said:


> Nonsense. Total load of codswallop. Regulations can't be strict, or not strict. Either there is a regulation or there isn't. And, in CA, there is. CPUC regulations prohibit minors from being transported without an adult present. Looks like the person who wrote the article should have done just that little bit more research.
> 
> Why is it that no reporter, ever, is able to produce error-free work when reporting about Uber and rideshare? Is is _that_ complicated/difficult?


Probably a millennial. You're asking too much


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Lailamay said:


> Minors are always using uber and lyft. I've transported a few myself during the morning and when school had been let out. I'm no longer doing so, but in the process I tell the teens that most likely people will report their account or refuse to give them a ride. I one star and write in "minor", not that it probably helps, but just in case. But many kids take uber/lyft to school and I feel bad canceling so I don't. Def don't want to get sued so it's not happening again. Luckily there were no accidents or problems on those trips!
> 
> But my question is where does the responsibility fall on uber if something was to happen? I do not ID anyone simply because that's weird and I myself get mistaken as a teen when I don't wear makeup. How do you "decide" if someone is under aged unless you're picking them up from a high school or it's very clear? It could be disrespectful to some and mess with ratings to question their legality unless it's brought up in casual convo (but the ride most likely would have begun by then). College students look young as well and not all are 18 yet, so what do you suggest? Cancel when in doubt? Or Risk it all (dramatic)?


Due diligence would require you to ask the passenger through the window before you even unlock your door if they look like they might be underage. You should do this always, in case you drive up to an irate drunk a$$hole passenger that you don't want in your car - unless you LIKE driving that type. Same thing with a child: "Sorry, but you look like you're under 18. May I see your ID?" Because you need to protect YOU, where will that kid be when you're discontinued by Uber?


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

uberfraud said:


> So Uber relies on "us" the drivers to enforce this rule because their defense, it is under the users or passengers terms of conditions. If that is the case, does a driver get compensated for his or her time? On this basis alone, we should get some kind of compensation for loss of revenue in my opinion.
> 
> Uber can do more to remind its passengers that "minors" are not allowed by a simple programming change. Multiply one uncompensated cancelled ride by the thousands of drivers? Thousands of drivers are losing a lot of money.


Good point. In a perfect world, Uber would care about it's drivers, but they don't. The best defense is to monitor your calls. It takes less than a minute to google search the destination. If it's a school, don't go. If it's a shopping center, send a text verifying whether or not the passenger is an adult. At least you would then have proof for Uber that you communicated with the passenger before cancelling once you arrive and find a child.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Lailamay said:


> Even with everything said. I'm not picking up anyone from schools or taking anyone to school, but in cases where schools are not involved, How to you assume age? Based off of looks alone? I can safely assume an age range for guys, but for women I'm always off. I myself appear to look like a 17yr old and I'm almost 24. I just don't know how to safely go about taking people to and from concerts or whatever. This sucks a bit


Even servers have to card EVERYONE, people are used to it. You need to protect yourself and your livelihood first and foremost.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Hans Über said:


> uber should not let people under 18 have accounts, if someone (a parent) uses their account to have us pick up and transport their kid not only are they responsible but I will report them to child services. I come from carnie stock but guessing ages and weight must skip a generation. Any shit storm comes down on me, I will sue the shit out of uber. They are responsible for minors not using this service.


Cute. I'm sure Uber has written somewhere in the fine print that you will never, ever sue them for any reason whatsoever!


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Fireguy50 said:


> You could easily call the police to come to a welfare check on the child.
> 
> And the village idiot comes out, proclaiming how he is cool breaking the law and Uber's policy.


Welfare check? lolololol DEFINITE 1* !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

elelegido said:


> SMH. You should _never _offer freebies at these rates.


LOL Makes the rest of us look like slackers. Or millennials.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

uberxreallysux said:


> If something does happen we can sue uber for allowing a minor to have an account and drivers is responsible to check ID.


While on the subject, it could well be that the minor is using the parent's account.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

BAKAD said:


> *Minors requesting rides are rampant in South Florida.* Sometimes 40% to 60% of the requests in some subdivisions in the morning are kids wanting rides to high school. It is crazy here.
> 
> There has been articles by teachers in the paper praising this with Uber saying nothing that this is against their rules, turning a blind eye.
> 
> ...


They encourage it by not hard-enforcing the policy and by not clarifying the issue with ALL new drivers.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

BAKAD said:


> *Minors requesting rides are rampant in South Florida.* Sometimes 40% to 60% of the requests in some subdivisions in the morning are kids wanting rides to high school. It is crazy here.
> 
> There has been articles by teachers in the paper praising this with Uber saying nothing that this is against their rules, turning a blind eye.
> 
> ...


They were going to call the company _*Unethical*_, but that was too long a word, so... Uber.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

ChinatownJake said:


> This law and enforcement are so blatantly disregarded, it's laughable. Beyond the IPO-salivating, could-care-less halls of Uber's offices. Example: At a certain LAUSD school, at end of a day of classes, the Uber/Lyft cars wheel in, one after the other, to pick up under-18 student(s). Too many to count sometimes.


I do not drive at school delivery/pick up time mainly because that I've had a couple of instances where mothers have me pick them up to drive to school to pick up Snowflake, they get out and I wait while they get the kid, and wait and wait and wait... this, all the while driving a snail's pace, just for a MINIMUM FARE? It is not even worth it.


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## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

melusine3 said:


> No doubt your auto insurance would reject your claim for doing something illegal (in California, at least, where it is forbidden). Uber purposely leaves it up to the driver because many will ignore the law and try to skirt it. Until an accident happens and they end up in deep doo-doo.


Regardless, Uber still dispatches drivers rides to minors. Are you saying we ought to start carding our riders?


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

We did not agree to verify a riders age and our terms of agreement mention nothing about denying underage riders. The agreement with Uber and the rider are theirs alone and we are not a party to the toa between the rider and Uber.


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## Sgt_PaxHauler (Oct 21, 2016)

If TNCs wanted to do things right (not just Uber, but Lyft and Austin's local TNCs), they'd allow a subset of drivers who pass an additional background check on top of the basic one that Uber does to transport teens to/from locations. Austin,TX requires a fingerprint-based background check on top of the basic SSN-based check that Uber and the other TNCs do. I'd also make dual dashcams (road-facing and passenger compartment) mandatory for such services.

Teens simply don't have many ways to get around in the suburban sprawl..lots of areas don't have safe paths for bikes or pedestrians, bus stops are frequently nonexistent outside the city core, and parents are often too busy putting in long shifts at their jobs to take their kids to the places they want to go. I'm not surprised there's demand. I'm surprised that TNCs haven't responded by putting their heads together with local authorities and insurance companies to provide a legal, safe solution to meet this demand.

While lots of users on here and in the media like to magnify the stories of a tiny minority of immoral drivers, passengers (adult and teen alike) are safer in the back seat of the overwhelming majority of TNC driver's cars than they are on the streets. 

To the TNC managers & staff monitoring this forum: This is a real problem.. but it's a fixable one. Let's fix it already, for the benefit of drivers & passengers alike.


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## Nick Manning (May 3, 2014)

Bojingles said:


> Don't pickup minors period. Leave that responsibility to the parents. Everyone wants to use the drivers. Such B. S. Something happens and you are at fault.Not Worth it. Fraudulent account when I see the passenger is a Minor.


Really? Half of my customers are rich spoiled brat tweens that are too good to walk a mile.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

uber strike said:


> Regardless, Uber still dispatches drivers rides to minors. Are you saying we ought to start carding our riders?


That's the grey area we find ourselves in. Seems the best way is to ask if they're 18+ when they look young. The dash cam will record you asking.

BTW (to all readers), you are, of course, asking your pax for their name before starting the ride, right?


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## Nick Manning (May 3, 2014)

circle1 said:


> BTW (to all readers), you are, of course, asking your pax for their name before starting the ride, right?


Yup, I always ask "what's the name on the account?".


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Nick Manning said:


> Yup, I always ask "what's the name on the account?".


Good. Chicago is not to be messed with!


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## unPat (Jul 20, 2016)

Uber gets a lot of business from minors. As long as the kid checks the box agreeing to be 18 yrs old, why bother.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

saucy05 said:


> Uber spies please pass the message along to your superiors.


Oh man, they know, believe me.
They won't make that change until some how they see any trouble or bad publicity.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Sgt_PaxHauler said:


> If TNCs wanted to do things right (not just Uber, but Lyft and Austin's local TNCs), they'd allow a subset of drivers who pass an additional background check on top of the basic one that Uber does to transport teens to/from locations. Austin,TX requires a fingerprint-based background check on top of the basic SSN-based check that Uber and the other TNCs do. I'd also make dual dashcams (road-facing and passenger compartment) mandatory for such services.
> 
> Teens simply don't have many ways to get around in the suburban sprawl..lots of areas don't have safe paths for bikes or pedestrians, bus stops are frequently nonexistent outside the city core, and parents are often too busy putting in long shifts at their jobs to take their kids to the places they want to go. I'm not surprised there's demand. I'm surprised that TNCs haven't responded by putting their heads together with local authorities and insurance companies to provide a legal, safe solution to meet this demand.
> 
> ...


There was such a service in the SF Bay Area, but it folded. Not enough demand - parents apparently didn't want to pay extra for fully background checked / vetted drivers.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

UXDriver said:


> No show


It is not the same and the no show fee is after 5 minutes. minors for the most part are ready before you arrive. if you wait they cancel.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

unPat said:


> Uber gets a lot of business from minors. As long as the kid checks the box agreeing to be 18 yrs old, why bother.


If I had commercial-type insurance insuring me up the yin-yang against frivolous law suits, then, sure, I wouldn't sweat it. When you're staring down the barrel of a law suit (remember, anyone can sue for any reason), then you will have sudden "clarity."

This whole issue seems to be a grey area. Who'll be the first TNC driver to make an appearance in the latest edition of a law school text book?


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

uberfraud said:


> Imagine a driver doing a self perceived "good deed" by picking up the unaccompanied minor passenger for what ever reason. (2am, bad part of town, just want the kid to go home safe) and the kid maybe drunk or high on drugs and makes false accusations?


I think the good deed would be to call the police, that would protect the driver too.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

TBone said:


> We did not agree to verify a riders age and our terms of agreement mention nothing about denying underage riders. The agreement with Uber and the rider are theirs alone and we are not a party to the toa between the rider and Uber.


It is state law in California.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

Sgt_PaxHauler said:


> If TNCs wanted to do things right (not just Uber, but Lyft and Austin's local TNCs), they'd allow a subset of drivers who pass an additional background check on top of the basic one that Uber does to transport teens to/from locations. Austin,TX requires a fingerprint-based background check on top of the basic SSN-based check that Uber and the other TNCs do. I'd also make dual dashcams (road-facing and passenger compartment) mandatory for such services.
> 
> Teens simply don't have many ways to get around in the suburban sprawl..lots of areas don't have safe paths for bikes or pedestrians, bus stops are frequently nonexistent outside the city core, and parents are often too busy putting in long shifts at their jobs to take their kids to the places they want to go. I'm not surprised there's demand. I'm surprised that TNCs haven't responded by putting their heads together with local authorities and insurance companies to provide a legal, safe solution to meet this demand.
> 
> ...


There it is on your last words, "for the benefit of the drivers and passengers", that is exactly why Uber will not do anything about it, Uber has no benefit by doing something about it.


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## Sgt_PaxHauler (Oct 21, 2016)

elelegido said:


> There was such a service in the SF Bay Area, but it folded. Not enough demand - parents apparently didn't want to pay extra for fully background checked / vetted drivers.


You're referring to Shuddle, right? If so, that service extended down to quite young pre-adolescents. The platform I had in mind would be for 13+, and wouldn't require the full childcare training that Shuddle required.. just an additional background check that can be paid for in installments by the driver and a requirement for equipment that most drivers recommend other drivers have anyway. There wouldn't be a need for huge premiums on the part of the paying parent, but one issue might be one of driver availability if only a minority of a TNC company's drivers have the higher-level certification and monitoring required to be authorized to transport teens.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Sgt_PaxHauler said:


> You're referring to Shuddle, right? If so, that service extended down to quite young pre-adolescents. The platform I had in mind would be for 13+, and wouldn't require the full childcare training that Shuddle required.. just an additional background check that can be paid for in installments by the driver and a requirement for equipment that most drivers recommend other drivers have anyway. There wouldn't be a need for huge premiums on the part of the paying parent, but one issue might be one of driver availability if only a minority of a TNC company's drivers have the higher-level certification and monitoring required to be authorized to transport teens.


I don't think many drivers would want to take teens on such a service. Anyone who has given rides to teens before knows there's a good chance it will be a difficult ride if there are more than two of them, plus there's the risk of the false reports they enjoy making against drivers. It's not worth it for a few bucks.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

What if I pick up an underage rider and they look 21. Then lets say I get into an accident any they turn out to be a minor. Am I at fault? Do I need to card every rider that has the potential of being underage. I could be asking 3 to 4 people a day for their IDs. The pax will hate us and rate us poorly. I don't think we should be having to deal with this. Uber is responsible for screening their clients not us. We need an attorney specializing in PI law to chime in with clarification. Any attorneys out there moonlighting as Uber drivers that can help us?


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

RodimusUber said:


> I don't have a problem with them leaving it up to us. We're the front line. Unless they start requiring a selfie or scanning IDs before allowing each ride (which would kill our business pretty quickly), then Uber can't prevent this. Us drivers are the logical checkpoint. Decline the ride and report them. Simple.


I didn't read all 5 pages, but this ^ is the craziest of the comments I did read.

1. It's Uber's job! Insist they do it.
2. Minors can't make a contract. Minors cannot assume risk. Meaning, you may be held strictly liable for anything that goes wrong.
3. When I have been requested to pick up minors, they are a) shorties, b) poo rides, c) taking you to crappy school traffic. You cancel. See next point.
4. You get a ping to a Paz 5 miles away. You drive 7 minutes. Girl in Bobby sox walks out, you have to decline the ride.
Then you have to cancel or wait for pax to cancel. You wasted time, mileage and may have lost a unicorn while doing Uber's job for them.
5. Every time this has happened, I followed the Uber recommended procedure. And it still took 6 "emails" to get paid. Half of the payments were because Rashfani was doing me "a courtesy".

cant remember the exact wording, it's late, but it's something like this: If you are in a room with a bunch of con artists and don't know who the mark is, it's probably you. That's what I think of Rodimus comment.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

REX HAVOC said:


> What if I pick up an underage rider and they look 21. Then lets say I get into an accident any they turn out to be a minor. Am I at fault? Do I need to card every rider that has the potential of being underage. I could be asking 3 to 4 people a day for their IDs. The pax will hate us and rate us poorly. I don't think we should be having to deal with this. Uber is responsible for screening their clients not us. We need an attorney specializing in PI law to chime in with clarification. Any attorneys out there moonlighting as Uber drivers that can help us?


It IS a grey area. One could justifiably lie (if you're not using a dash cam/recording) and say you asked if they were above 18. After all, _they_ are the ones who fraudulently used the account, they would be the one having prima facie motivation to falsify their identity (the act itself would be a lie).


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Nothing gray about it.

Uber is hoping you give them all a ride. It's about the money. 

It doesn't really matter if you prevail in a civil lawsuit. Do you really want to sit in multiple depositions? Meet with lawyers? Sit through a trial? Maybe a police interview? 

You also should remember, in a civil trial, James River can settle a lawsuit without your consent. Meaning, they can agree you are guilty if it saves them a jury trial.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> Nothing gray about it.
> 
> Uber is hoping you give them all a ride. It's about the money.
> 
> ...


. . . that's what liability insurance is for.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

circle1 said:


> . . . that's what liability insurance is for.


Liability insurance has a provision that says you must assist in the defense. Thus, you may have a major expenditure of your time. Unpaid time. Away from your other job, if you have one.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

REX HAVOC said:


> What if I pick up an underage rider and they look 21. Then lets say I get into an accident any they turn out to be a minor. Am I at fault? Do I need to card every rider that has the potential of being underage. I could be asking 3 to 4 people a day for their IDs. The pax will hate us and rate us poorly. I don't think we should be having to deal with this. Uber is responsible for screening their clients not us. We need an attorney specializing in PI law to chime in with clarification. Any attorneys out there moonlighting as Uber drivers that can help us?


You are 100% liable.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Nick Manning said:


> Yup, I always ask "what's the name on the account?".


Which does nothing to protect you.


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## Michaacb (Sep 4, 2016)

In CT, the policy has nothing to do with drivers being safe or not. The ridershare insurance uber carries for us doesn't cover minors. End of story. You get into an accident with an unaccompanied minor in the car, you're on your own.


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## Michaacb (Sep 4, 2016)

Too Many Miles said:


> I report every single minor that tries to get in my car but Uber does not deactivate them for that.
> Today I had 3 kids together that did not see to be older than 13 or 14. I am fed up with it.


Oh me too! I've reported the same people half a dozen times. Uber doesn't give a crap so long as they get their cut of things.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

elelegido said:


> The last kid I carded subsequently made a false allegation against me that I had another person riding along with me when I arrived at his pickup. I arrived at the pickup, carded him and he said he had no ID. I refused him the ride and before I could cancel it, he cancelled and then sent the false report in to Uber. He had said at the roadside that he was going to "**** me up with Uber". Uber then temporarily deactivated me.
> 
> So... no more youngsters in the car, thanks. If they look under 18 then I keep on going, no questions asked. It's a shame that the badly behaved ones have to spoil it for the rest of them but I don't care - unfortunately doing this you have to protect yourself, your car and your rating, and that goes above all else.


So he was able to leave a rating for you even after he canceled?


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## Michaacb (Sep 4, 2016)

2Cents said:


> So he was able to leave a rating for you even after he canceled?


He didn't leave a rating. He just made a complaint. When a ride is cancelled, they can still make complaints, but can't give star ratings.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

Michaacb said:


> He didn't leave a rating. He just made a complaint. When a ride is cancelled, they can still make complaints, but can't give star ratings.


And they deactivated you afterwards?


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## Michaacb (Sep 4, 2016)

2Cents said:


> And they deactivated you afterwards?


No, no, this didn't happen to me. I'm just explaining how passengers can make complaints but not give ratings when the ride is cancelled. I've never been deactivated  (knock on wood)


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## d0n (Oct 16, 2016)

Lol, this info is delicious.

Time to blackmail me some teens into giving me 5 stars or risk account closure.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Michaacb said:


> In CT, the policy has nothing to do with drivers being safe or not. The ridershare insurance uber carries for us doesn't cover minors. End of story. You get into an accident with an unaccompanied minor in the car, you're on your own.


It's not only CT.


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## Michaacb (Sep 4, 2016)

Demon said:


> It's not only CT.


Yes, next time I'll more accurately qualify my statements so I don't leave anybody out. We wouldn't want.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Michaacb said:


> Yes, next time I'll more accurately qualify my statements so I don't leave anybody out. We wouldn't want.


Not disagreeing with you at all. I just want drivers to know the liability they put themselves in when they pick up unaccompanied minors.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Sgt_PaxHauler said:


> If TNCs wanted to do things right (not just Uber, but Lyft and Austin's local TNCs), they'd allow a subset of drivers who pass an additional background check on top of the basic one that Uber does to transport teens to/from locations. Austin,TX requires a fingerprint-based background check on top of the basic SSN-based check that Uber and the other TNCs do. I'd also make dual dashcams (road-facing and passenger compartment) mandatory for such services.
> 
> Teens simply don't have many ways to get around in the suburban sprawl..lots of areas don't have safe paths for bikes or pedestrians, bus stops are frequently nonexistent outside the city core, and parents are often too busy putting in long shifts at their jobs to take their kids to the places they want to go. I'm not surprised there's demand. I'm surprised that TNCs haven't responded by putting their heads together with local authorities and insurance companies to provide a legal, safe solution to meet this demand.
> 
> ...


You have to wonder about the possibility of criminal charges for the driver if a minor is injured during one of your rides.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

uber strike said:


> Regardless, Uber still dispatches drivers rides to minors. Are you saying we ought to start carding our riders?


Yes, I am. If you suspect it, that would be the responsible thing to do.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

circle1 said:


> That's the grey area we find ourselves in. Seems the best way is to ask if they're 18+ when they look young. The dash cam will record you asking.
> 
> BTW (to all readers), you are, of course, asking your pax for their name before starting the ride, right?





unPat said:


> Uber gets a lot of business from minors. As long as the kid checks the box agreeing to be 18 yrs old, why bother.


Minors can not legally enter into a contract. So, good luck UBER!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Demon said:


> Which does nothing to protect you.


The act of fraud will be your defense. If someone is posing as the account holder (and is mentally competent), the act itself is a lie. Assuming there's no witnesses aligned with the perpetrator and there is no recording of the conversation, your claim is that you _*did*_ ask if they were over 18. Since the minor, as the Prime mover in this chain of events is prima facie committing fraud, would not their testimony be suspect and discreditable from the start?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

circle1 said:


> The act of fraud will be your defense. If someone is posing as the account holder (and is mentally competent), the act itself is a lie. Assuming there's no witnesses aligned with the perpetrator and there is no recording of the conversation, your claim is that you _*did*_ ask if they were over 18. Since the minor, as the Prime mover in this chain of events is prima facie committing fraud, would not their testimony be suspect and discreditable from the start?


Bartenders don't ask patrons if they're 21 or up, they ask for ID.
Clerks at places that sell cigarettes or lottery tickets don't ask if the customer is 18, they ask for ID.

If either of these people give someone something they shouldn't have they are responsible in the eyes of the law.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Demon said:


> Bartenders don't ask patrons if they're 21 or up, they ask for ID.
> Clerks at places that sell cigarettes or lottery tickets don't ask if the customer is 18, they ask for ID.
> 
> If either of these people give someone something they shouldn't have they are responsible in the eyes of the law.


Touche. So the takeaway is card'em if they look like they might be under 18?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

circle1 said:


> Touche. So the takeaway is card'em if they look like they might be under 18?


You really should be carding everyone. I doubt any driver actually will, but a driver is putting themselves at risk if they don't.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

REX HAVOC said:


> What if I pick up an underage rider and they look 21. Then lets say I get into an accident any they turn out to be a minor. Am I at fault?


Unless you can prove the other driver was at fault yes. your insurance and uber are not going to pay for their injuries, you will


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

circle1 said:


> It IS a grey area. One could justifiably lie (if you're not using a dash cam/recording) and say you asked if they were above 18. After all, _they_ are the ones who fraudulently used the account, they would be the one having prima facie motivation to falsify their identity (the act itself would be a lie).


Thats not how it works... Its like people who have sexual misconduct with minors then claim they didnt know the age. You have a responsibility to make a good faith effort to confirm they are of age. Just asking their age is not a good faith effort.

Saying "they lied to me" is not a valid defense.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

circle1 said:


> . . . that's what liability insurance is for.


Liability insurance won't cover an illegal act. Maybe in Unicornland, but not in reality.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

circle1 said:


> The act of fraud will be your defense. If someone is posing as the account holder (and is mentally competent), the act itself is a lie. Assuming there's no witnesses aligned with the perpetrator and there is no recording of the conversation, your claim is that you _*did*_ ask if they were over 18. Since the minor, as the Prime mover in this chain of events is prima facie committing fraud, would not their testimony be suspect and discreditable from the start?


One word: ID (or is that two)?


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Should I get stuck in a situation because I mistakenly gave a ride to a under age passenger, my lawyer will be on Uber and James River like white on rice.


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## occupant (Jul 7, 2015)

Just to add another layer of difficulty...

Uber driver asks pax for id...pax shows it.

If Uber driver has a good memory, they now knows pax home address, age, etc.

Fast forward, it doesn't matter if a ride was given or not, doesn't matter the pax age, because the driver has what they need. Pax gets assaulted a week later in their garage while organizing their widget collection.

Now what? Uber facilitated that exchange of information.

Pax is hospitalized.

There are widgets scattered all over the place.

What do you do? 

WHAT DO YOU DO?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

occupant said:


> Just to add another layer of difficulty...
> 
> Uber driver asks pax for id...pax shows it.
> 
> ...


So now no Uber pax can ever request a ride home?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

2Peaks said:


> Should I get stuck in a situation because I mistakenly gave a ride to a under age passenger, my lawyer will be on Uber and James River like white on rice.


And you'll be broke from lawyer's fees.


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## NewEnglander (Sep 20, 2016)

Demon said:


> You really should be carding everyone. I doubt any driver actually will, but a driver is putting themselves at risk if they don't.


I'm not sure we are allowed to due to privacy concerns. The driver would know their address and last name. Uber won't even let us know who gives poor ratings because they are concerned about drivers tracking down a passenger. What do you think that they would do if a passenger complained about a driver insisting on seeing an ID?

Plus, practically speaking, plenty of passengers might not carry an ID because they are not driving.

But, we can't transport minors and there is no other way to know for sure someone's age.

It's a real Catch 22 and I don't know what the solution is.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

circle1 said:


> Touche. So the takeaway is card'em if they look like they might be under 18?


I used to do that, but then I had the one instance of the kid not liking having to pay a cancellation fee when he could produce no ID. Result = false complaint submitted to Uber by kid + temporary account deactivation for me. And when the little shits don't submit false reports, the ones that do produce ID get in a huff because you've required ID from them and then low star you.

For me, it's a lot easier and way less hassle to just keep rolling when I see a youngster at the pickup; anyone who looks younger than early 20s.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Demon said:


> Bartenders don't ask patrons if they're 21 or up, they ask for ID.
> Clerks at places that sell cigarettes or lottery tickets don't ask if the customer is 18, they ask for ID.
> 
> If either of these people give someone something they shouldn't have they are responsible in the eyes of the law.


Wait a minute, not so fast! States pass laws specifically governing businesses and their employees who dispense alcoholic beverages. Have any states passed laws governing TNC businesses? Until a court case involving this is heard we can not say exactly what will happen.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Shangsta said:


> Thats not how it works... Its like people who have sexual misconduct with minors then claim they didnt know the age. You have a responsibility to make a good faith effort to confirm they are of age. Just asking their age is not a good faith effort.
> 
> Saying "they lied to me" is not a valid defense.


So, you're saying the only acceptable defense is to say "I checked their ID"? But if I _*do*_ check their ID, and it is fake, *then* am I off the hook??


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## Nick Manning (May 3, 2014)

Demon said:


> Which does nothing to protect you.


It's not about protecting me. It's about making sure the right person gets into my car and not somebody trying to steal a ride.


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## spike69 (Sep 3, 2016)

Guess it Different here in New York u would have to cancel one out of every 3-4 rides so many pick ups are kids they are no problem here some times a bad one but sometimes a bad trip with any one but in New York u need a special license to do uber at least the parents can track the app see driver , car , route It's still better then subway or bus a lot of kids have both parents working so need us for safe ride . But I'm not sure bout how insurance works here in ny u need 
Tlc insurance 3500 a year and if new car regular insurance


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## DirtyRead (Oct 2, 2016)

Nice piece of Cab company sponsored garbage. Did you know it is scientifically impossible for a cab driver to be under the influence of any drug or booze? Go I team yourself a fluff piece on the clean and safe Nrw Jersey Sanitation services vs, how dare you dispose of your thrash yourself druggie!


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## Sub Guy (Sep 22, 2016)

Lailamay said:


> Even with everything said. I'm not picking up anyone from schools or taking anyone to school, but in cases where schools are not involved, How to you assume age? Based off of looks alone? I can safely assume an age range for guys, but for women I'm always off. I myself appear to look like a 17yr old and I'm almost 24. I just don't know how to safely go about taking people to and from concerts or whatever. This sucks a bit


In no way am I advocating picking up minors but several times, upon arriving at a high school, my pax was a coach or teacher whose car was in the shop. You can not assume EVERY pickup at a high school is going to be underage. Way back when I was in high school some of my classmates were 18 when they were seniors.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

elelegido said:


> I used to do that, but then I had the one instance of the kid not liking having to pay a cancellation fee when he could produce no ID. Result = false complaint submitted to Uber by kid + temporary account deactivation for me. And when the little shits don't submit false reports, the ones that do produce ID get in a huff because you've required ID from them and then low star you.
> 
> For me, it's a lot easier and way less hassle to just keep rolling when I see a youngster at the pickup; anyone who looks younger than early 20s.


From a cost/benefit analysis, is it worth it to not ask for ID? Is anyone willing to become the _*test case*_ for this?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

spike69 said:


> Guess it Different here in New York u would have to cancel one out of every 3-4 rides so many pick ups are kids they are no problem here some times a bad one but sometimes a bad trip with any one but in New York u need a special license to do uber at least the parents can track the app see driver , car , route It's still better then subway or bus a lot of kids have both parents working so need us for safe ride . But I'm not sure bout how insurance works here in ny u need
> Tlc insurance 3500 a year and if new car regular insurance


What does New York state law say about this, if anything (I'm certain a prosecutor could find something)?


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

There is nothing wrong with asking for ID. 

I pull up. Passenger has a high school biology text in hand. I ask, are you 18? They say yes or no. If Yes, ask for ID. If No, I tell them I cannot pick them up. Too bad, so sad. 

and Demon, you miss the point about me and a lawyer. 

If your state allows under age 18 riders, go,for it. Otherwise, leave the kids be. Just Say No


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

circle1 said:


> Wait a minute, not so fast! States pass laws specifically governing businesses and their employees who dispense alcoholic beverages. Have any states passed laws governing TNC businesses? Until a court case involving this is heard we can not say exactly what will happen.


They certainly do.

I'm talking about liability. If a driver gives a ride to a non-passenger there is zero insurance from the TNC. If anything goes wrong the driver is on the hook for everything. Just like if I give a ride to a buddy to a game and something goes wrong I can't expect the TNC insurance to kick in. TNC insurance will not cover non-passengers, and 100% of unaccompanied minors are non-passengers.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Nick Manning said:


> It's not about protecting me. It's about making sure the right person gets into my car and not somebody trying to steal a ride.


Your procedure doesn't do that either.


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## metal_orion (May 14, 2015)

One time I picked up a minor I accepted because I really needed the money so I took the risk. I couldn't believe that reaching the destination there was nobody waiting for the kid. Probably he was going to school or something, but still how irresponsible from the parents. At least it wasn't pool.


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## ChinatownJake (Jan 3, 2016)

Just one more thought on this. The way Uber has handled is a classic&painful reminder of how they generally operate:

- Fail to enforce at rider end
- Make it clear, between the lines, that the driver is 100% on the stick and screwed, if they are punished by authorities or involved in some sort of accident liability for that underage Pax

Has anyone been de-activated or suspended after parent or adult complained (unlikely, I know)? More realistically though still a stretch, has anyone on this board ever been stopped or ticketed by a cop, CPUC inspector, airport police and challenged about age of single passenger under-age?

_(Long before this became an issue, the youngest Pax I drove was Grade 8! Westside, picked up at school and dropped back home. From the kid's calm behavior, it was obvious this was a regular routine.)_


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## GrinsNgiggles (Oct 11, 2016)

It surges every morning in my area from 7:30 to 8:00. All because of kids trying to get to school. I don't even bother. Spoiled kids can't walk to school? Parents passing off their job to us. I've even been cussed out by tweens because I refused to let them in my car. They said "this is my uber!" No kid, and sorry You're not used to hearing the word "no", nothing about this car is yours.


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## SoiCowboy (Sep 17, 2016)

RodimusUber said:


> I don't have a problem with them leaving it up to us. We're the front line. Unless they start requiring a selfie or scanning IDs before allowing each ride (which would kill our business pretty quickly), then Uber can't prevent this. Us drivers are the logical checkpoint. Decline the ride and report them. Simple.


Recently I had four minors get in and refused to exit saying, "All the Lyft drivers do it."

Fortunately, I have a dash cam and sent Lyft a picture of the individuals. Lyft spoke with me over the phone and told me they were suspending the service to the account holder until he provided proof of age.

Report, report, report!

I have also created a two-sided laminated card for the pax to read en route with Uber's and Lyft's policies after they've noticed my "No minors" signs on the backs of the headrests.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

nickguyver said:


> I drive kids on Select all the time. Maybe if select had any real demand id turn em down but most the time they are going from mommy's house in SM to daddy's in Hollywood. So uh. Yea hop in slugger. Hope you don't mind listening to Zed's dead and asap rocky cuz you definitely aren't picking the music or route and yes the 405 to the 101 in heavy traffic is the best way haha


Who do you think the parents are going to hold liable when little Johnny or Jane is injured because you were in a car accident? Uber and James River are going to pass the liability off to you because you violated CPUC Regs and Uber policy. SMDH at people who want to put themselves at financial risk for a couple of bucks.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

2Peaks said:


> Nothing gray about it.
> 
> Uber is hoping you give them all a ride. It's about the money.
> 
> ...


James River isn't going to settle, they're not going to cover you because you broke company policy and violated CPUC regulations. You'll be flapping in the wind by yourself.


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## Sub Guy (Sep 22, 2016)

Just saw another post on this subject: https://uberpeople.net/threads/i-received-an-email-from-uber-with-new-tos.118493/
Is it possible that UBER Terms of Service just put the responsibility on the account holder instead of the driver? Still, tough to tell how a judge/jury would find who was responsible for preventing a minor from being transported......still going to avoid the situation if at all possible.


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## SLuz (Oct 20, 2016)

Sub Guy said:


> Just saw another post on this subject: https://uberpeople.net/threads/i-received-an-email-from-uber-with-new-tos.118493/
> Is it possible that UBER Terms of Service just put the responsibility on the account holder instead of the driver? Still, tough to tell how a judge/jury would find who was responsible for preventing a minor from being transported......still going to avoid the situation if at all possible.


So if it is a minor and something happens, will the ride history of the person who may have a 4.9 rating show that the rider has successfully used Uber 90 separate times without being flagged by those drivers (and those drivers being held partially responsible) & Uber's policy seen as insufficient or encouraging. I think that Uber (or Lyft's ) can/should ask for ID at account establishment via ID, credit check or whatever. One can buy cigarettes online buy checking a box and getting an adult signature on delivery and Postmates requires ID proof to deliver liquor as well.


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## Ziggy (Feb 27, 2015)

arto71 said:


> "Users agree to our terms and conditions when they download the app. We expect them to adhere to them. If we were to discover that someone under 18 had set up an Uber account, the account would be deactivated."


Nope ... accounts are never deactivated. Reported a 16-yo minor more than once and Uber never deactivated his account or his parent's accounts. I was told by Uber that James River wouldn't cover the trip if there was only an unaccompanied minor in the car. Bear in mind, pax can have unlimited pax accounts only thing they need is new email, phone and credit card for each ... had a pax who opened an Uber account for his dog ... go figure.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Beur said:


> James River isn't going to settle, they're not going to cover you because you broke company policy and violated CPUC regulations. You'll be flapping in the wind by yourself.


Not so fast. joint and several liability will come into play as will the search for deep pockets. I get sued for $1 million. I lose. Judge lets them have my $50,000 in assets but gives me 5 years to pay them. 
Plaintiff lawyers then say, well, let's try for $Uber because we still need a big payday. Mr. James River and Mr. Uber ... You've been served.

(The above is the shortened version of what will happen.)

Best defense for everyone ... Put every under age passenger that you can find in writing to Uber.


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## Uber315 (Apr 11, 2016)

Ok I totally agree with the no minor thing with out an adult. Also at the same time we need to be aware of the situation . See the circumstances . Are we putting the child in more danger if we leave him or her stranded at the particular pickup location? Sometimes we need to have common sense and do the right thing.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Breaking news!!!


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Uber315 said:


> Ok I totally agree with the no minor thing with out an adult. Also at the same time we need to be aware of the situation . See the circumstances . Are we putting the child in more danger if we leave him or her stranded at the particular pickup location? Sometimes we need to have common sense and do the right thing.


The right thing and only thing to do if you find a minor in a situation that's dangerous is call 911.


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## fwtexguy (Sep 28, 2015)

*"Users agree to our terms and conditions when they download the app. We expect them to adhere to them. If we were to discover that someone under 18 had set up an Uber account, the account would be deactivated."

This is a Laugh. Screwber has never deactivated anybody that I have reported for being underage. Why should they all the risk is placed on the backs of the drivers. I have a dash cam and record me asking the rider if they are 18. If they lie the monkey is off my back! *


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

fwtexguy said:


> *"Users agree to our terms and conditions when they download the app. We expect them to adhere to them. If we were to discover that someone under 18 had set up an Uber account, the account would be deactivated."
> 
> This is a Laugh. Screwber has never deactivated anybody that I have reported for being underage. Why should they all the risk is placed on the backs of the drivers. I have a dash cam and record me asking the rider if they are 18. If they lie the monkey is off my back! *


If simply asking if someone is the proper age isn't ok for bartenders and convenience store clerks why do you think it's OK for Uber drivers?


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## SLuz (Oct 20, 2016)

Demon said:


> If simply asking if someone is the proper age isn't ok for bartenders and convenience store clerks why do you think it's OK for Uber drivers?


This is from the Ride Share guy blog and it seems to only fog the issue. further {/are-drivers-allowed-to-transport-minors/}

*""Should We Allow Minors to Enter Our Vehicles?*
At this time, all of the responsibility has been placed on the account holders to abide by the rules. Of course we know there are plenty of people who haven't been abiding by the rules. As drivers, we are not required to check if someone is a minor or not. We are not the liquor store carding purchases. So, drivers cannot get in trouble and be deactivated by the rideshare companies just for giving underage riders transportation. It is up to the driver's discretion whether or not to give rides to minors.

Regarding insurance, transporting minors should not affect whether or not you are covered. The only way coverage can be affected is if a driver is breaking the law. It is arguable if a driver breaks a rule set by the rideshare company that they may not be covered, but in this case, transporting a minor does not break a rule as it is not the driver's responsibility to screen for the age of the passenger.""


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## Brian G. (Jul 5, 2016)

If i get a request to pick up at a school I'll cancel right away. This avoids a lot.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SLuz said:


> This is from the Ride Share guy blog and it seems to only fog the issue. further {/are-drivers-allowed-to-transport-minors/}
> 
> *""Should We Allow Minors to Enter Our Vehicles?*
> At this time, all of the responsibility has been placed on the account holders to abide by the rules. Of course we know there are plenty of people who haven't been abiding by the rules. As drivers, we are not required to check if someone is a minor or not. We are not the liquor store carding purchases. So, drivers cannot get in trouble and be deactivated by the rideshare companies just for giving underage riders transportation. It is up to the driver's discretion whether or not to give rides to minors.
> ...


Minor can't be Uber passengers. James River won't cover someone who isn't a passenger


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## MrA (Jul 7, 2016)

I had another teen ride request yesterday. Pick up was over 5 minutes away. Drove right by the obvious minor and parked out of sight. Ignored the phone calls. Minor forced to cancel. I get cancellation fee, and report minor account holder.


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## occupant (Jul 7, 2015)

MrA said:


> I had another teen ride request yesterday. Pick up was over 5 minutes, I was less than 5 minutes away. Drove right by, and parked. Ignored the phone calls. Minor forced to cancel. I get cancellation fee, and report minor account holder.


This might be the most effective way to deal with the problem.


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