# FIVE Week Earnings...



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

These are my earnings (gross) since I started driving consistently 40+ hours.










* Average 1252.46 weekly gross (~1000 net, 2000 bi weekly). This is roughly equivalent to a 75K job bi-weekly paycheck, except there is no health insurance, no 401k match, no benefits, no vacation or sick leave.

* 25.099/hr average over 5 weeks, full time.

* Diamond running both apps.

* Earnings are gross and do not include, gas/maint/dep. I record those, but do not share the entire break down. I estimate those to be around 20% of gross. I do all maintenance, and car is 12yo, nearly depreciated.

* I consider 50 hours a week equivalent to a typical FT corporate job (40h + commute + getting ready)

* This is driving all over the DC metro area. Rates between .60 - .80 mile. In a better market I could be making 25-50%+ more. My home town market is highly throttled and variable, I usually hope for "feeder trips" to other areas where I will often stay and work.

* I consider this "pretty good". There are areas for improvement, but at least my strategy works consistently.

*The algo giveth, and the algo taketh away! I'm at the mercy of throttling and customer quality (tips). I would probably drive 70h/week in the short term if the trips were there. When the trips dry up I don't stay out there.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Solid hourly gross – I bet you are doing better than the vast majority of other rideshare drivers, me included at the moment. I think this rate is more equivalent to a 25-45k salary job depending on benefits, especially after typical expenses. It depends on a lot of factors of course but I think net matters more than gross when comparing rideshare wages to other wages or salaries. Gross pay is a really important metric but some employers are paying way more than just the salary, while Uber and Lyft are gross only.

Your net sounds good too. I am guessing most drivers are doing worse than 1/3 expense to gross ratio.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Solid hourly gross - I bet you are doing better than the vast majority of other rideshare drivers, me included at the moment. I think this rate is more equivalent to a 25-45k salary job depending on benefits, especially after typical expenses. It depends on a lot of factors of course but I think net matters more than gross when comparing rideshare wages to other wages or salaries. Gross pay is a really important metric but some employers are paying way more than just the salary, while Uber and Lyft are gross only.


Thats true, but my weekly net is estimated ~1000/wk (2000 bi weekly) based on known costs (20% of gross)

If you look at paycheck calculator, that is the paycheck you get from a 75k job.

Would have to subtract cost of health insurance, retirement savings, and SS payments to get full comparison to salary job.

Also, have to subtract reduced earnings from summer when it slows down.

I think its probably equivalent to a 50-60k salary job. CDL will be better for someone serious about a driving job.


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## WNYuber (Oct 5, 2019)

Here's my earnings driving 12 hours a week in Buffalo, NY.....


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Well I’ll give an example: I had a $45k/year job but the calculated salary plus benefits (good 100% covered health insurance, retirement matching, transit subsidies, training budget, more) amounted to closer to $60k. My take home pay was similar to what a rideshare hustler would make but my actual compensation was higher than almost anyone working UberX and Lyft Vanilla (no lux or XL).

I agree with your math but I wanted to mention that some modest salaries are better than they look at payday. And of course some rideshare hustlers are overestimating their earnings because of big paydays.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Well I'll give an example: I had a $45k/year job but the calculated salary plus benefits (good 100% covered health insurance, retirement matching, transit subsidies, training budget, more) amounted to closer to $60k. My take home pay was similar to what a rideshare hustler would make but my actual compensation was higher than almost anyone working UberX and Lyft Vanilla (no lux or XL).
> 
> I agree with your math but I wanted to mention that some modest salaries are better than they look at payday. And of course some rideshare hustlers are overestimating their earnings because of big paydays.


Thats true, there are other factors.

OTH, my prior salaried jobs often required 50+ hours of actual work, adding 10+ hour for commute, 5 for unpaid lunch, it was 65+ hours weekly, without OT. So the actual earnings quite a bit less when looked at from an hourly perspective.

Hard to make direct comparisons.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I generate $5K a month working full time 6 days a week. Equivalent is $8K pretax per month in the corp world here in Kanaduh. I pay $1K in taxes after deductions and write offs per year. I'd need to earn $95K pretax in a jobbie job to equal Uber. Obviously YMMV.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

ANT 7 said:


> I generate $5K a month working full time 6 days a week. Equivalent is $8K pretax per month in the corp world here in Kanaduh. I pay $1K in taxes after deductions and write offs per year. I'd need to earn $95K pretax in a jobbie job to equal Uber. Obviously YMMV.


I gross the same.

But in Canada everyone gets free insurance..

Apples and kumquats.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

You have no idea what a farce that perception is though.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

@OldBay, when you say you drove for 40 hours, are you citing what your apps say? Or is 40 hours the amount of time you were out of the house each day...which includes fill-ups, car cleaning, eating, waiting for the next ride, etc..?


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

AllenChicago said:


> @OldBay, when you say you drove for 40 hours, are you citing what your apps say? Or is 40 hours the amount of time you were out of the house each day...which includes fill-ups, car cleaning, eating, waiting for the next ride, etc..?


The time recorded is from when I leave driveway to when I return, rounded to next quarter hour.

App times don't work because I run both apps, sometimes overlapping, sometimes off.

Except, I don't count fill up time at beginning or end of shift. If I have to fill up mid shift, that time is counted. Iow, my shift starts either when I leave my driveway or when I leave the gas station.

Also don't count cleaning or maintenance time. I have a power washer in garage I blast the car with every couple days, takes a few minutes. Also have a shop vac I use when needed.

You bring up a good point, my gross/hr doesn't consider repairs or maintenance time. But I think that is less than 5pct. I drove that 5 weeks, 250 hours, washed car once, did multiple quick power washed, and changed oil once.

250 hours of driving, probably 2-3 hours maint.

When I've had to do repairs, I will try to do it mid week on a day off. Extensive repairs means less money that week.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

OldBay said:


> The time recorded is from when I leave driveway to when I return, rounded to next quarter hour.
> 
> App times don't work because I run both apps, sometimes overlapping, sometimes off.
> 
> ...


Thank-you for the thorough explanation! I'm always amazed, and somewhat envious, when I see drivers who have the wherewithal to earn $1,000 (or more) gross in a week. I'm pretty much drained after 6 hours of being on the Lyft clock, on any given day.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

AllenChicago said:


> Thank-you for the thorough explanation! I'm always amazed, and somewhat envious, when I see drivers who have the wherewithal to earn $1,000 (or more) gross in a week. I'm pretty much drained after 6 hours of being on the Lyft clock, on any given day.


Drive a gas guzzler. Spend more in gas, but can drive many more hours. It's the honest truth that if you are sitting higher and can stretch out and move around, you will last longer.

Most days I will do either one or two shifts.

Sometimes on weekends I get dragged into a marathon. Today was 11am to 6:15pm. I think that was my longest shift all week. Usually I will go home after first shift, workout, relax, take nap, then do another shift.


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

OldBay said:


> I gross the same.
> 
> But in Canada everyone gets free insurance..
> 
> Apples and kumquats.


Because there's only what, 25 million of you?


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

OldBay said:


> Drive a gas guzzler. Spend more in gas, but can drive many more hours. It's the honest truth that if you are sitting higher and can stretch out and move around, you will last longer.
> 
> Most days I will do either one or two shifts.
> 
> Sometimes on weekends I get dragged into a marathon. Today was 11am to 6:15pm. I think that was my longest shift all week. Usually I will go home after first shift, workout, relax, take nap, then do another shift.


I don't get physically tired/drained. It's more mental, due to Chicago area traffic and drivers. About 6 hours is all I can take, and still be a nice guy in the evening. Thanks for taking the time to give the advice though!


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

OldBay said:


> These are my earnings (gross) since I started driving consistently 40+ hours.
> 
> View attachment 376283
> 
> ...


Nice solid numbers. Thanks for sharing. Just curious, you must be putting on about 50k miles per year, no?


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

lyft_rat said:


> Nice solid numbers. Thanks for sharing. Just curious, you must be putting on about 50k miles per year, no?


Somewhere around that.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

OldBay said:


> These are my earnings (gross) since I started driving consistently 40+ hours.
> 
> View attachment 376283
> 
> ...


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

The moral of this story is to never share your earnings or any information. There is always someone doing worse who thinks that driving 45 minutes to your town will lead them to the promised land, even if it borks their hourly rate. This place is dead now.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Given how few people read UP and how little people understand the finances of driving, people are going to harm their own markets even without examples of explicitly described pay. Hope is pretty powerful.

I still avoid talking about my exact gross and net with people in my market because the last thing I would want to do is talk someone into being my competition, especially if it wouldn’t even benefit them, let alone me.

When asked I say “I love the job despite the low pay, and I don’t recommend that other people try it.”


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Given how few people read UP and how little people understand the finances of driving, people are going to harm their own markets even without examples of explicitly described pay. Hope is pretty powerful.
> 
> I still avoid talking about my exact gross and net with people in my market because the last thing I would want to do is talk someone into being my competition, especially if it wouldn't even benefit them, let alone me.
> 
> When asked I say "I love the job despite the low pay, and I don't recommend that other people try it."


I've wondered about this before, can a market be disrupted by an influx of ants based upon an expectation that it is better?

I used to think "no", but now I'm not so sure.

If someone posts their earnings on up.net, and its much better than someone in an area 30 minutes away, wouldn't they at least try out that market?

If 100 people read a post, wouldn't at least 25 of them try the new area?

Afaict, there might be 50 ants in my town within a 5 mile radius. Adding another 25 might completely change the market. My market is smaller than several larger adjacent markets, so its possible that refuges from larger markets could saturate a smaller town if they believe it is better.

Of course, I've always thought that once they get here and realize its over saturated, they will stop coming, expecially when they factor in the time to/from.

I often make the mistake in believing that other people are intelligent and rational.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Any future ants reading this, I am making $7.75 an hour. The passengers are mean and it’s a really bad gig.

I don’t think there will ever be a shortage of drivers unless regulators step in.


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## DriverRI (Jul 30, 2019)

Thanks for sharing, wish you the best.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

waldowainthrop said:


> Given how few people read UP and how little people understand the finances of driving, people are going to harm their own markets even without examples


Right now, there are 600+ lurkers on UP, who are just guests. There are more people who view this site than you realize.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Invisible said:


> Right now, there are 200 lurkers on UP, who are just guests. There are more people who view this site than you realize.


Yeah, but look at the view counts for threads. The number per market for a given thread is way smaller than the number who are making blind decisions. I am more concerned about the masses of uninformed ants compared to the few clever ones who read, research, and do math. &#128028; &#128028; &#128028;

&#128075;&#127995; &#128123; &#128028;


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

waldowainthrop said:


> Yeah, but look at the view counts for threads. The number per market for a given thread is way smaller than the number who are making blind decisions. I am more concerned about the masses of uninformed ants compared to the few clever ones who read, research, and do math. &#128028; &#128028; &#128028;
> 
> &#128075;&#127995; &#128123; &#128028;


I'm not going by that. If you go to main page and scroll to the bottom, you'll see the members and guests. 643 guests now, when I did screenshot a minute ago. That's a lot of lurkers!!!!


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## UberNorthDfw (Nov 22, 2014)

That info can also be faked by the board admins to make the board look busier


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## WAHN (May 6, 2019)

Invisible said:


> 643 guests now, when I did screenshot a minute ago. That's a lot of lurkers!!!!


Quite a few bots/spiders included in that count.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

UberNorthDfw said:


> That info can also be faked by the board admins to make the board look busier


True, but I still think there are a lot of lurkers who are looking.



WAHN said:


> Quite a few bots/spiders included in that count.


And trolls


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Mods, can you please delete this thread? 

People reading it probably don't realize all the factors that went into making those numbers reality. My home market has very little to do with it, actually.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Mods, can you please delete this thread?
> 
> People reading it probably don't realize all the factors that went into making those numbers reality. My home market has very little to do with it, actually.


I wasn't insinuating you were a troll. I'm sure you make the good money you quoted. You're fortunate to have that income.


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## Grokit (Sep 8, 2019)

OldBay said:


> This is roughly equivalent to a *75K* job bi-weekly paycheck, except there is no health insurance, no 401k match, no benefits, no vacation or sick leave.





waldowainthrop said:


> I think this rate is more equivalent to a *25-45k salary *job depending on benefits, especially after typical expenses. It depends on a lot of factors of course but I think net matters more than gross when comparing rideshare wages to other wages or salaries. Gross pay is a really important metric but some employers are paying way more than just the salary, while Uber and Lyft are gross only.





OldBay said:


> Would have to subtract cost of health insurance, retirement savings, and SS payments to get full comparison to salary job. Also, have to subtract reduced earnings from summer when it slows down. I think its probably equivalent to a *50-60k salary* job.


No, I'm sorry OldBay. I don't wish to rain on your parade, but your estimated salary is still way too high. I'm not sure where you got that 75k starting figure, but it's throwing off your calculations.

I'm going to chime in with waldowainthrop and peg your equivalent salary at* 35k max *and that would be with a subpar company that only provides the most basic of benefits.

Forget that you ever calculated 75k. The easiest starting figure from an employer's perspective is 52k (1k per week for 52 weeks) and from there your "productivity" only goes down...

You are less productive in the summer (-5k, assumes you earn half-wages for 12 weeks)
You only work 50 weeks out of the year (-2k)
The company will have to pay you on your sick leave, vacation days,and holidays (-2k)
The company will have to pay 7.5% payroll taxes to the government on what you earn (-3k, assuming 35k in wages)
The company will have to pay for your medical insurance (-3k)
The company has to pay some money for your retirement (-1k, at least)
All other costs associated with your employment (-1k, at least)
After all the expenses of employing you, only *35k* in salary is left for you.


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

All that compensated by OldBay being tax free.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Grokit said:


> No, I'm sorry OldBay. I don't wish to rain on your parade, but your estimated salary is still way too high. I'm not sure where you got that 75k starting figure, but it's throwing off your calculations.
> 
> I'm going to chime in with waldowainthrop and peg your equivalent salary at* 35k max *and that would be with a subpar company that only provides the most basic of benefits.
> 
> ...


My net earnings are tax free. I'm comparing "paycheck to paycheck". My accounts are growing at the same rate as if I was receiving a 2k biweekly paycheck.

As mentioned, there are no benefits. A 1099 has many tax advantages over a W-2.

Agree that summer and vacay drags it down which is why I said 50-60k equiv.


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## Grokit (Sep 8, 2019)

OldBay said:


> My net earnings are tax free. I'm comparing "paycheck to paycheck". My accounts are growing at the same rate as if I was receiving a 2k biweekly paycheck.
> 
> As mentioned, there are no benefits. A 1099 has many tax advantages over a W-2.
> 
> Agree that summer and vacay drags it down which is why I said 50-60k equiv.


Yeah, I get what you are trying to do, but it's an apples-to-oranges comparison.

I ran my own business for 12 years and had contract workers doing work for me. Just like RideShare drivers, my contract workers got paid based on their productivity.

Let's say I paid one of my contract workers $1k a week (because he performed $1k worth of work each week) and I wanted to hire an employee to do the same amount of work.

Assuming that my business incurred $17k in expenses for that employee (just like above), I am only going to pay that employee a 35k annual salary (52 - 17). I am not going to pay him $69k (52 + 17), as you seem to be suggesting.

The equivalent pay as a salaried position will always be less than what contractor earns, irregardless of whether the contractor pays any taxes.

============ Added Later in Edit ======

Even though I still believe the comparison is faulty, yes, I would have to agree that -

from an employee's short-term perspective, he would have to have a salaried DC job paying at least 72k annually in order to bank 2k bi-weekly as you are doing.

--
edit - also toned it down a bit.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Not too shabby. And you get to claim those miles to lower your tax burden. 

I'm in CDL school now, time to get out of an office and see the country.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Ssgcraig said:


> I'm in CDL school now, time to get out of an office and see the country.


Good for you! That's a solid career choice.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Invisible said:


> Good for you! That's a solid career choice.


School is expensive, $10,700 for 540 hours. Hopefully I can balance home life with work in the trucking industry. The permit cost $50, the actual test is $160.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Ssgcraig said:


> School is expensive, $10,700 for 540 hours. Hopefully I can balance home life with work in the trucking industry. The permit cost $50, the actual test is $160.


Wow! My tech college was under 3k, but I dropped out a few wks before the CDL test. Many of the people I went to school with found local jobs. They never have to do OTR. A few did regional, but are only gone 4-5days/wk.

You can also look at cement truck. I know I guy who loves doing that, and he's making a good income, mid 50s.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Invisible said:


> Wow! My tech college was under 3k, but I dropped out a few wks before the CDL test. Many of the people I went to school with found local jobs. They never have to do OTR. A few did regional, but are only gone 4-5days/wk.
> 
> You can also look at cement truck. I know I guy who loves doing that, and he's making a good income, mid 50s.


Where I live, mid 50's is so so. I will look at everything. More than likely start regional, get the two years on the road and then apply locally for dump trucks.

MA has a strict test for CDL. Soon all 50 will have the same DOT test and it will be mimic MA's. My class started with 16, we are down to 8 with 3.5 months to go.


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## Lyftuber100 (Nov 14, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Given how few people read UP and how little people understand the finances of driving, people are going to harm their own markets even without examples of explicitly described pay. Hope is pretty powerful.
> 
> I still avoid talking about my exact gross and net with people in my market because the last thing I would want to do is talk someone into being my competition, especially if it wouldn't even benefit them, let alone me.
> 
> When asked I say "I love the job despite the low pay, and I don't recommend that other people try it."


I like this answer.


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## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> Given how few people read UP and how little people understand the finances of driving, people are going to harm their own markets even without examples of explicitly described pay. Hope is pretty powerful.
> 
> I still avoid talking about my exact gross and net with people in my market because the last thing I would want to do is talk someone into being my competition, especially if it wouldn't even benefit them, let alone me.
> 
> When asked I say "I love the job despite the low pay, and I don't recommend that other people try it."


Yeah, perhaps we are all sandbagging here on UP and are secretly but humbly getting super rich.


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