# Poll: Surge pricing or higher base rates?



## Krishna (Sep 4, 2014)

We all hate low base rates. What do you feel about surge pricing? Would you be willing to see an end to surge pricing if base rates were at a decent level? Cast your vote!


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## iamkitkatbar (Nov 17, 2015)

Higher base rate and 10$ cancel fee after mob cut.
Cap surge to 3x


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Both... a realistic fare plus surge. Why give up the surge? If there was a better regular rate there would be more drivers therefore, in theory anyway, less surge. 

I don't think they should ever consider doing away with surge. I look at it like it's an auction with my service going to the highest bidder.


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## IckyDoody (Sep 18, 2015)

I will take a higher standard rate any day. Cap the surge at 2 or do away with it. 

More than anything, make the min fare such that I don't feel resentful of min fare pax.


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## ATX 22 (Jun 17, 2015)

F the surge. It's nothing more than a dangling carrot that you never can catch. A decent base rate where one could make enough to cover expenses and make a little money would be good for drivers, and better for riders. I simply don't understand people who claim to be able to work surge only. Never works out in my market.


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## mark edwards (Sep 11, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> Both... a realistic fare plus surge. Why give up the surge? If there was a better regular rate there would be more drivers therefore, in theory anyway, less surge.
> 
> I don't think they should ever consider doing away with surge. I look at it like it's an auction with my service going to the highest bidder.


surge should be capped at 3x. It is really Uber exploiting riders the way they exploit drivers every day. Obviously the base rate need to be higher. $7 minimum, $1.75/mile, 25 cents minute, and no SRF and Uber take 15%. Everyone wins!


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Doesn't matter. Travis is laughing at us all as he plans his next rate cut.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

My post on this very topic from Oct 2014:
*Drunk OU fan 6.5x surge fare
*
_Any rationalization of >3X Surge Pricing is nothing but ill considered, greedy self-justification by the Drivers who've been lucky enough to provide the minuscule number of rides that filed at such high multiples.

A base rate of say > $1.50/mile + ¢25/min coupled with with max surge limit of 3 is better for ALL drivers as well as Riders. But it isn't good for Uber itself! Why? Because at the current rock bottom rates, Uber makes out like a bandit thanks to disproportionate increase in short rides that are in fact the highest profit margin rides thanks to the $1/Ride SRF!

The number of actual ride requested just dries up at >3X. Most drivers in the Zones at these price gouging multiples are just left playing the waiting game till the multiple drops down to a more sustainable level._


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## Krishna (Sep 4, 2014)

Good points, Chi1Cabby. I think you're right about Uber looking to profit from the "rider fee" (now $1.60 here).

I think the interesting (but not surprising) answer to this poll is that drivers overwhelmingly (currently over 97%) would prefer a decent base rate, and would be willing to see an end to surge pricing. I would like to see the media pick this up.

Regulators in cities across the country who are letting Uber do whatever they want should be enforcing some sanity (and transparency) in Uber's pricing.


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## bestpals (Aug 22, 2015)

Throughout all the rates cuts I can guarantee Travis has never lowered what he gets from all this. Even with all the money uber is losing he is taking his share. I just can't believe the investors are so stupid to keep giving him money. Must just be to cut down on their taxes with these loses.


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## ATX 22 (Jun 17, 2015)

bestpals said:


> Throughout all the rates cuts I can guarantee Travis has never lowered what he gets from all this. Even with all the money uber is losing he is taking his share. I just can't believe the investors are so stupid to keep giving him money. Must just be to cut down on their taxes with these loses.


He already has the investors money stashed overseas. He's a great con man.


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## dothemath (Jan 27, 2016)

Krishna said:


> We all hate low base rates. What do you feel about surge pricing? Would you be willing to see an end to surge pricing if base rates were at a decent level? Cast your vote!


I think there are many different ways to get rid of the surge pricing.


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## Body Politic (Jan 1, 2016)

Given the number of short runs in the Chicago market, often around a mile or so, something that would help in this market as much or more than raising the base rate is to raise the minimum fare -- the driver gets at $5 or so just for climbing into the back of his car.


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## Krishna (Sep 4, 2014)

Body Politic said:


> Given the number of short runs in the Chicago market, often around a mile or so, something that would help in this market as much or more than raising the base rate is to raise the minimum fare -- the driver gets at $5 or so just for climbing into the back of his car.


Yes, that would help not only by netting the driver more money for short runs, but by eliminating a lot of time-wasting, uprofitable runs that can even lose the driver money. I bet it would be good for the environment too, because a lot of those people should be walking.


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## Body Politic (Jan 1, 2016)

Krishna said:


> Yes, that would help not only by netting the driver more money for short runs, but by eliminating a lot of time-wasting, uprofitable runs that can even lose the driver money. I bet it would be good for the environment too, because a lot of those people should be walking.


Well, you don't want to be walking when it's raining like hell or it's minus God dammit degrees out or there's a foot of snow on the ground and half the people around here are too lazy to shovel their sidewalks.


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## UberKW (Feb 3, 2016)

I would pick something in the middle. I'd be happy with base rate being about 60% higher than it is now, but limit surge pricing to 4x.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> My post on this very topic from Oct 2014:
> *Drunk OU fan 6.5x surge fare
> *
> _Any rationalization of >3X Surge Pricing is nothing but ill considered, greedy self-justification by the Drivers who've been lucky enough to provide the minuscule number of rides that filed at such high multiples.
> ...


Drivers should insist to be treated like owner operators or employees and let go of the ill defined manner in which they currently operate.

As Owner operators, drivers should be able to set their own rates according to their own expenses, willingness to work and needs. A TNC commission should be created in states and one of their tasks would be to set the range of acceptable rates.

As for surge prices. Rates should never be allowed to surge for the purpose or to the level where a TNC company is able to implement the surge to flood a city with drivers and create an unsustainable fleet. TNCs use the surge first to recruit in a growing market and then to modulate the number of drivers at any given moment. I more sustainable fleet would not need to be manipulated through such severe tactics.

To really make the system fare and equitable would really take some noggin' scratching. The system really does rely on disruption and keying off of various people's sense of dissatisfaction. Some of that dissatisfaction is Uber's own creation.

Chances are Uber and Kalanick simply are not reformable. Uber and probably Lyft as well will need to go down the toilet/implode. Ideally that would create a period of rebuilding for the TNC industry. During that time of rebuilding with an emergence of new players, state legislatures would have an opportunity to create laws to protect pax and driver before the new arrivals could get out of control again.

That is my best guess. Uber can not be reformed and while many may wail at regulation, without it there is no hope. Good thing Uber doesn't employ scores of lobbyists in every state! D-oh!

How many people feel Uber should simply be coerced by drivers to say raise rates at this point rather than create state bills protecting the rights of TNC workers and pax?


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## Krishna (Sep 4, 2014)

Body Politic said:


> Well, you don't want to be walking when it's raining like hell or it's minus God dammit degrees out or there's a foot of snow on the ground and half the people around here are too lazy to shovel their sidewalks.


Then short-trip people who don't want to walk can pay the $5 (or whatever) minimum...


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## Body Politic (Jan 1, 2016)

Krishna said:


> Then short-trip people who don't want to walk can pay the $5 (or whatever) minimum...


If only. Instead we get about $2.70 out of it.


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## czervik7 (Oct 16, 2015)

Krishna said:


> We all hate low base rates. What do you feel about surge pricing? Would you be willing to see an end to surge pricing if base rates were at a decent level? Cast your vote!


I see more surge in places I've never seen it. I'm sure it's due to fewer driver taking the table scraps from Uber.

I educate riders on how the fare cuts cost them when they pay 2x or more for surge since the fare cuts reduce drivers.

I want the prior rates and the surge when they need to lure more drivers to underserved areas. I don't see lower rates increasing traffic. Plus I can only do so many rides an hour.


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## Body Politic (Jan 1, 2016)

Here's another suggestion to improve driver pay, driver morale, and actually put more control of driver compensation in their own hands: Uber should base their commission rate on how well you're rated. For every basis point above, say, 4.8, they knock a percentage point off their commission. So if your rating is 4.83, then their commission is 17% (veterans) or 22% (newbies). If your rating is 4.87, then their commission is 13% (veterans) or 18% (newbies). 

Reward the better drivers. Give them an incentive to stay around. Why should we if we're not going to be compensated any better than the shittiest drivers on the verge of being kicked off the system?


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## Krishna (Sep 4, 2014)

Body Politic said:


> Here's another suggestion to improve driver pay, driver morale, and actually put more control of driver compensation in their own hands: Uber should base their commission rate on how well you're rated. For every basis point above, say, 4.8, they knock a percentage point off their commission. So if your rating is 4.83, then their commission is 17% (veterans) or 22% (newbies). If your rating is 4.87, then their commission is 13% (veterans) or 18% (newbies).
> 
> Reward the better drivers. Give them an incentive to stay around. Why should we if we're not going to be compensated any better than the shittiest drivers on the verge of being kicked off the system?


Yes, I totally agree. There would be no reason to kick drivers off the system for low ratings, the commission would just rise and you would quit when it didn't make sense to drive anymore.

However, maybe we shouldn't give uber this idea. We know they would just abuse it, since there is no transparency in the rating system. I think it's better that the rating system is currently in retreat (it seems).

In fact the best idea is this: leave it to passengers. When they have a good driver, they should TIP MORE, and when they receive poor service, they should TIP LESS or not at all. An amazingly simple system (peer to peer, as a matter of fact) which rewards good drivers, punishes bad ones, doesn't give Uber any additional power, and makes money that goes 100% for the drivers.


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## Body Politic (Jan 1, 2016)

Krishna said:


> Yes, I totally agree. There would be no reason to kick drivers off the system for low ratings, the commission would just rise and you would quit when it didn't make sense to drive anymore.


Well I hadn't thought of adding commission points to lower-rated drivers, but yeah, that might be a good self-filtering mechanism for less desirable drivers.



Krishna said:


> In fact the best idea is this: leave it to passengers. When they have a good driver, they should TIP MORE, and when they receive poor service, they should TIP LESS or not at all. An amazingly simple system (peer to peer, as a matter of fact) which rewards good drivers, punishes bad ones, doesn't give Uber any additional power, and makes money that goes 100% for the drivers.


In other words, do like Lyft passengers do.


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