# Australia could block online sellers not collecting GST



## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Under laws coming into effect as of next year, if it wants to, the Federal Government can block access to overseas retailer's websites if they aren't collecting GST - even for purchases under $1000.

Here's how.

Choice recently revealed the loophole, a part of regulations to be implemented as of July 2017. Overseas businesses will have to collect GST on everything if they have an Australian annual turnover of $75,000 or more.

Local retailers blaming losing sales to overseas sites prompted the change, which will see an extra $300 million in GST collected.

But how are the new rules going to be enforced anyway?

A Treasury Official told Choice that first, the Government will ask the businesses to comply. Failing that, the Government will fall back on treaty arrangements and international law to force them to comply. And if _that_ doesn't work, as a "last resort", Government powers will be used to block the retailer's websites.

The Telecommunications Act gives the government the power to make telecommunications companies help enforce laws related to "[protecting] the public revenue".

So if you are buying items from overseas websites because you can't get those products locally, and those websites don't comply with our GST rules, you may find your path obscured by the heavy arm of the Government.


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## Daniel_D (Jun 2, 2016)

and they could block Uber if they dont fall into line with GST that would be disastrous for Uber


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Daniel_D said:


> and they could block Uber if they dont fall into line with GST that would be disastrous for Uber


Imagine that, one day these entitled millennials opening their Uber app to find the server blocked. The look on their face, priceless


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## MyRedUber (Dec 28, 2015)

Daniel_D said:


> and they could block Uber if they dont fall into line with GST that would be disastrous for Uber


Uber would just close their Australian operation. We're small bananas.


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## Daniel_D (Jun 2, 2016)

MyRedUber said:


> Uber would just close their Australian operation. We're small bananas.


We are one of the few regions that make money for uber... Don't confuse ubers valuation for profitability.


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## MyRedUber (Dec 28, 2015)

Daniel_D said:


> We are one of the few regions that make money for uber... Don't confuse ubers valuation for profitability.


You're privy to Uber's financials?


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## Daniel_D (Jun 2, 2016)

It public record


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## MyRedUber (Dec 28, 2015)

Daniel_D said:


> It public record


Link me a link.
Uber's not a public company.


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## Daniel_D (Jun 2, 2016)

I think you need to do more reading...
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/uber-profitable-in-hundreds-of-cities-2016-6

You understand the difference between public record and public company?


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## MyRedUber (Dec 28, 2015)

Daniel_D said:


> I think you need to do more reading...


"*Uber's CEO Travis Kalanick says* the company is profitable ..."


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

MyRedUber said:


> "*Uber's CEO Travis Kalanick says* the company is profitable ..."


And then blew all the "profit" in China, and then some. Overall, the company didn't make a profit.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

Daniel_D said:


> and they could block Uber if they dont fall into line with GST that would be disastrous for Uber


Yeah, and the sky could fall.
OMG! Where will it end?


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## Daniel_D (Jun 2, 2016)

Who is John Galt? said:


> Yeah, and the sky could fall.
> OMG! Where will it end?


I think you underestimate the ATO in regards to who they will prosecute and what they would do, and more importantly, Uber is really low hanging fruit as the ATO can very easily criple the Uber site if Uber keeps flouting local tax legislation, as there is a lot of $$ that they can collect.


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## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

Daniel_D said:


> I think you underestimate the ATO in regards to who they will prosecute and what they would do, and more importantly, Uber is really low hanging fruit as the ATO can very easily criple the Uber site if Uber keeps flouting local tax legislation, as there is a lot of $$ that they can collect.


The ATO only has the balls to prosecute the little income tax payers like us . Not the big corporations like google , Apple ect . I like to see them prosecute uber which I don't think it is going to happen . The ATO can do what they want but the big corporation control the government which control the ATO . In one of the recent case between the ATO and newscorp . The ATO was defeated and it wipe out a big portion of our tax revenue cost us $880 millions http://www.smh.com.au/business/tax-office-forced-to-pay-rupert-murdoch-880m-20140217-32weo.html


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## Daniel_D (Jun 2, 2016)

Icecool said:


> The ATO only has the balls to prosecute the little income tax payers like us . Not the big corporations like google , Apple ect . I like to see them prosecute uber which I don't think it is going to happen . The ATO can do what they want but the big corporation control the government which control the ATO . In one of the recent case between the ATO and newscorp . The ATO was defeated and it wipe out a big portion of our tax revenue cost us $880 millions http://www.smh.com.au/business/tax-office-forced-to-pay-rupert-murdoch-880m-20140217-32weo.html


I think you miss the difference between Profit Shifting and GST collection.


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## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

Daniel_D said:


> I think you miss the difference between Profit Shifting and GST collection.


I think you Miss my point. It dosen't matter profit shifting or what ever . The ATO are not god . They can't simply say We going to prosecute you and that's it . No they need to take it to the courts . It cost a lot of money and time . The big corporation like uber got plenty of money they can hire all the top laywer to challenge the the ATO . . The ATO need to consider carefully if they wish to take it to the court . . Losing a court battle is very costly to the government . It involves billion of dollar


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## Daniel_D (Jun 2, 2016)

The point is that legislation will soon come into force June 2017?? to force overseas companies to pay GST on all digital transactions...Uber included no court case required.


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## Daniel_D (Jun 2, 2016)

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/New-...-products-and-services-imported-by-consumers/


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## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

Daniel_D said:


> https://www.ato.gov.au/General/New-...-products-and-services-imported-by-consumers/


Have you check out uber company structure . 
It is very complicate . . The link is only mainly talking about download digital product . Even if uber need to pay the gst all they do is charge us 10% more for commision so they still get the same commision


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## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

Daniel_D said:


> The point is that legislation will soon come into force June 2017?? to force overseas companies to pay GST on all digital transactions...Uber included no court case required.


Are you a tax lawyer or an accountant no court case lol. Uber appeal than that's a court case. First they appeal the federal court , if they lose they call appeal to the Supreme Court and if they can appeal go all the way to the high court . If money and time is not an issue most little tax payer like us would be bankrupt by the time we end up in the high court


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## Jack Malarkey (Jan 11, 2016)

I suspect that if this proposed legislation affects Uber (as is likely), they will pass on to us drivers a separate GST charge on the commission on top of the 20 or 25 per cent we currently pay them. 

We would then claim that GST as an input tax credit against our own GST liability. The practical effect would be that we end up in the same position as now but that we'll be temporarily out of pocket from when Uber passes on the GST to when we claim the input tax credit.


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## why not (Oct 2, 2016)

So who will end up being the losers in all this?


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## Instyle (Oct 18, 2014)

Under new laws slated to come into effect from July 1, overseas businesses with an annual turnover of $75,000 or more will be required to register with the ATO to collect GST on all goods sold, including purchases under the current low-value threshold of $1000.

Giving evidence before a Senate economics committee in Melbourne on Friday, representatives for eBay, Alibaba and Etsy hit out at the government's vendor collection model, _which would place the burden of tax collection on the platforms. _(Interesting!)

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...d/news-story/3a2d62515b247fc79b927f1db0696ba4


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## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

Instyle said:


> Under new laws slated to come into effect from July 1, overseas businesses with an annual turnover of $75,000 or more will be required to register with the ATO to collect GST on all goods sold, including purchases under the current low-value threshold of $1000.
> 
> Giving evidence before a Senate economics committee in Melbourne on Friday, representatives for eBay, Alibaba and Etsy hit out at the government's vendor collection model, _which would place the burden of tax collection on the platforms. _(Interesting!)
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...d/news-story/3a2d62515b247fc79b927f1db0696ba4


It is not going to work . Who dose the Australian government think they are asking foreign country to collect gst on their behalf . Australia is only small % of their market . The profit they make from Australia will proberly use to administrate the collection of the gst . They might as well ban Australia from using the platform . To promote competition. Anything you buy from Australia is either too expensive or bad quality . We should fix up ourselves first


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## Jack Malarkey (Jan 11, 2016)

Icecool said:


> It is not going to work . Who dose the Australian government think they are asking foreign country to collect gst on their behalf . Australia is only small % of their market . The profit they make from Australia will proberly use to administrate the collection of the gst . They might as well ban Australia from using the platform . To promote competition. Anything you buy from Australia is either too expensive or bad quality . We should fix up ourselves first


Platforms such as Amazon already add state retail taxes in the United States in essentially the same way as proposed here so I think they will quickly adapt.


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## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

Jack Malarkey said:


> Platforms such as Amazon already add state retail taxes in the United States in essentially the same way as proposed here so I think they will quickly adapt.


No. The gst is not automatically charged to the goods it is different to the state taxes and retail taxes . The way it work is that retailer need to register for gst then they individually need to add up their sales and expenses they then need to submit a gst tax return to the tax offices . Monthly quarterly or annually depending on the sizes of the buinesss . It is a lot compliance work


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## fields (Jul 11, 2016)

Icecool said:


> It is not going to work . Who dose the Australian government think they are asking foreign country to collect gst on their behalf . Australia is only small % of their market . The profit they make from Australia will proberly use to administrate the collection of the gst . They might as well ban Australia from using the platform . To promote competition. Anything you buy from Australia is either too expensive or bad quality . We should fix up ourselves first


So you want me, a humble Uber driver, to collect GST but a multi billion dollar company like Amazon doesn't have to pay a cent whereas its Australian competitors do have to pay GST?

I can only assume you are not thinking this through. Either that or you are an Amazon shareholder.

Funny how you care about the compliance costs of multi billion dollar companies but don't care about the compliance costs of Australian small business. Sadly your attitude probably accounts for the majority in Australia.

You do realise Ebay and the like pay VAT in the EU?


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## Coconutz (Mar 8, 2016)

fields said:


> So you want me, a humble Uber driver, to collect GST but a multi billion dollar company like Amazon doesn't have to pay a cent whereas its Australian competitors do have to pay GST?
> 
> I can only assume you are not thinking this through. Either that or you are an Amazon shareholder.
> 
> ...


It's true, you can gather this perspective from what icecool is saying. 
However I don't think he's trying to hold one more accountable than the other.

What he's trying to get at is the Australian governments attitude and tactics at attempting to get overseas companies to comply with its laws. Forcing complications in what usually are straight forward trading issues handled by in-house compliance teams.

This is atypical behaviour of a country that used to be isolated in world markets due only to distance.

The governments risk of restricting not only profitable but important service providing platforms because they are playing catch up with internet traders, comes off a bit childish as would banning non gst compliant companies (uber) from trading.

If this is where icecool is coming from, I agree. I also agree with you fields but yours is different to how I see ice cools stance.


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## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

The point I was trying to make is that . In Australia our government is making it very hard for humble small business like you to do bussiness . We are constantly hit with compliance cost , taxes , duty ,penalty , law . It is very hard for business in our country to be competitive. The closure of the Toyota in Australia is an good example . The car that was made in Australia was not up to Toyota standard and it very costly due to theses laws Like the high cost of Labour and the industrial regulations. So at the end Toyota just make their car some where else so no more job in for Australians . You see they the big corporations don't need us but we need them . This would be the same with the eBay and amazon they just ban the platform to Australian as it only a small market not worth the trouble . At the end we the consumer loose out . We end up buying expensive bad quality product from Australia . Our government want to charge Gst is not because they want our industries to be more competitive but to collect more revenue . Even if there are gst on the overseas good and services . People will still not buy Australian products due to it quality and prices . They will find another way to get it from oversea . If our government want to support small business they should get rid of their bullshit regulation and taxes . This is why we don't make anything in Australia any more .


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## CBear (Apr 17, 2017)

Just get a VPN and problems solved. Its not like charging GST on things bought online is going to save outdated business models and monopolies. Especially with Amazon opening up in Australia soon.


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## Daniel_D (Jun 2, 2016)

Icecool said:


> No. The gst is not automatically charged to the goods it is different to the state taxes and retail taxes . The way it work is that retailer need to register for gst then they individually need to add up their sales and expenses they then need to submit a gst tax return to the tax offices . Monthly quarterly or annually depending on the sizes of the buinesss . It is a lot compliance work


Tell you want I don't really care that there is a lot of compliance in that... They will all do it. Look at amazon having sales of 1 billion to au... They will fall in line.. Or even better force them to create a point of presence in Australia... Harvey Norman never though that his crap he has been pushing would actually help to give more reasons for amazon to set up locally.


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## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

Daniel_D said:


> Tell you want I don't really care that there is a lot of compliance in that... They will all do it. Look at amazon having sales of 1 billion to au... They will fall in line.. Or even better force them to create a point of presence in Australia... Harvey Norman never though that his crap he has been pushing would actually help to give more reasons for amazon to set up locally.


So you want to buy more expensive import goods . Amazon is not the seller it just a platform like uber . It is the thousands of individuals seller need to do the gst . Even if they are charge gst the import good will still be less expensive than the locally made goods . We just got wait and see what happens . The overseller don't need the eBay or amazon platform to sell their goods .


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## MrM (Jan 18, 2017)

Icecool said:


> It is not going to work . Who dose the Australian government think they are asking foreign country to collect gst on their behalf . Australia is only small % of their market . The profit they make from Australia will proberly use to administrate the collection of the gst . They might as well ban Australia from using the platform . To promote competition. Anything you buy from Australia is either too expensive or bad quality . We should fix up ourselves first


They already do it - below is a screen dump of an order placed on Amazon US to ship to the UK. At the bottom of the order summary is Ïmport Fees Deposit" - this is 20% of the total before tax. the UK VAT (GST) rate is 20% - so they already have the mechanics in place.


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## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

MrM said:


> They already do it - below is a screen dump of an order placed on Amazon US to ship to the UK. At the bottom of the order summary is Ïmport Fees Deposit" - this is 20% of the total before tax. the UK VAT (GST) rate is 20% - so they already have the mechanics in place.
> 
> View attachment 115155


Ok then why amazon and eBay are complaining about implementing the gst to the goods that are import from oversea if it simple as a putting a tax on the invoices . Lucky I don't live in the uk and I hardly use amazon . When I buy expensive stuff I don't use amazon eBay or amazon if they started charging gst .


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## fields (Jul 11, 2016)

Icecool said:


> Ok then why amazon and eBay are complaining about implementing the gst to the goods that are import from oversea if it simple as a putting a tax on the invoices . .


Because the EU has 500 million potential customers. That's why they will do what the EU demands.


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## MrM (Jan 18, 2017)

Icecool said:


> Ok then why amazon and eBay are complaining about implementing the gst to the goods that are import from oversea if it simple as a putting a tax on the invoices . Lucky I don't live in the uk and I hardly use amazon . When I buy expensive stuff I don't use amazon eBay or amazon if they started charging gst .


The devil is probably in the detail - the Australian government may want a different process and responsibility than the UK or Europe - but what it does indicate is that they already have the mechanics in place to do it for AU.


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## Icecool (Feb 8, 2016)

MrM said:


> The devil is probably in the detail - the Australian government may want a different process and responsibility than the UK or Europe - but what it does indicate is that they already have the mechanics in place to do it for AU.


it is easy just add in a tax icon in the prices like a sales tax . But With the gst yih need to register and submit a gst return every month or every quarter by each seller .


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