# Operator SDC Uber vehicle that killed pedestrian is Felon



## transporter007 (Feb 19, 2018)

PHOENIX - The operator behind the wheel of a self-driving Uber vehicle that hit and killed a 49-year-old woman Sunday night had served almost four years in an Arizona prison in the early 2000s on an attempted armed robbery conviction.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/2...arizona-pedestrian-was-felon-report-says.html


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Are we still weeks away from the Waymo launch and the public fully embracing the service ?


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> Are we still weeks away from the Waymo launch and the public fully embracing the service ?


I think it's gotta be down to days at this point


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## Certain Judgment (Dec 2, 2016)

Well, how about that. I still think the cyclist was an idiot though. Should have stayed in the light under the streetlamp when walking the bike across the street. Cyclists in my city exercise all kinds of stupid behavior on a regular basis. Running red lights being the main example.

Still, if driverless cars can't work in a nice climate like Arizona, what chance do they have of successful operation in snowstorms during a midwest winter.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> Are we still weeks away from the Waymo launch and the public fully embracing the service ?


Waymo has already launched. Over 10,000 people signed up for their launch.

However, I would think this may delay the general public being included. Uber is, once again, screwing up an entire market with their recklessness and greed.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Waymo has already launched. Over 10,000 people signed up for their launch.
> 
> However, I would think this may delay the general public being included. Uber is, once again, screwing up an entire market with their recklessness and greed.


Wait... what?? Waymo launched??

Where's the huge Tomato parade to roll it out???!!

Quick thoughts:
1. Sign ups don't mean they're going to use the service.
2. 10,000 people does not sound enough to "put Uber Phoenix out of business in 2 years" as Baghdad Bob, jr (aka The Tomato) said


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> Wait... what?? Waymo launched??
> 
> Where's the huge Tomato parade to roll it out???!!
> 
> ...


no. they haven't "launched". they have "launched" people around some of the easiest simplest roads to deal with in the country with two google employees in the cars. To be sure, a Waymo employee and a camera operator were in the vehicles during the rides, albeit not in the driver's seat. https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/13/17114194/waymo-driverless-minivan-arizona-early-rider-video

ramz, as usual, is trying to inflate what is really happening.

and, of course: To date, none of the members of the program have been interviewed or publicly identified. (Waymo has them under strict nondisclosure agreements.)


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

heynow321 said:


> no. they haven't "launched". they have "launched" people around some of the easiest simplest roads to deal with in the country with two google employees in the cars. To be sure, a Waymo employee and a camera operator were in the vehicles during the rides, albeit not in the driver's seat. https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/13/17114194/waymo-driverless-minivan-arizona-early-rider-video
> 
> ramz, as usual, is trying to inflate what is really happening.
> 
> and, of course: To date, none of the members of the program have been interviewed or publicly identified. (Waymo has them under strict nondisclosure agreements.)


Nope. No inflation nessecary. The car has no driver, is on live roads, with real passengers so it is, by definition, a self driving car. Period. End of story. No need to try and move the goalposts, the definition is crystal clear.

Oh, and since you never think these things through, those are obviously mounted cameras.


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## tcaud (Jul 28, 2017)

There will be a terrible accident on the scale of a terrorist attack. Sadly that's what it will take to end this self-driving car obsession.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Nope. No inflation nessecary. The car has no driver, is on live roads, with real passengers so it is, by definition, a self driving car. Period. End of story. No need to try and move the goalposts, the definition is crystal clear.
> 
> Oh, and since you never think these things through, those are obviously mounted cameras.


You are correct there is no reason to move the goalpost much closer like you are always trying to do. Stop it. It's why you have no credibility around here


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Nope. No inflation nessecary. The car has no driver, is on live roads, with real passengers so it is, by definition, a self driving car. Period. End of story. No need to try and move the goalposts, the definition is crystal clear.
> 
> Oh, and since you never think these things through, those are obviously mounted cameras.


Listen guys, there's no need to waste time arguing over split hairs.

Let's just bottom line it: will a robot car ride share put Uber out of business or no? Hell, I'll even accept it happening JUST in the Phoenix market to start.

Yes or no? And if yes how long til it happens? I've heard the Tomato's very aggressive estimation and if anyone else wants to make a prediction that's fine but I really have no desire to go back and forth on this bs nor do I wish to talk about what "could" happen. All I care about is seeing with my own eyes if it does or does not happen.

So to all the robot lovers out there- if and when that even comes remotely close to looking like it's on the way to happening then talk to me.

How's that for a goalpost?


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

heynow321 said:


> You are correct there is no reason to move the goalpost much closer like you are always trying to do. Stop it. It's why you have no credibility around here


No credibility with the nay-sayers who demand blind obedience to their agenda.

Goalpost = self-driving cars. Goalpost reached.



iheartuber said:


> Listen guys, there's no need to waste time arguing over split hairs.
> 
> Let's just bottom line it: will a robot car ride share put Uber out of business or no? Hell, I'll even accept it happening JUST in the Phoenix market to start.
> 
> ...


My predictions and explanations are in my blog.

"For these reasons and others, barring unforeseen setbacks like regulations or an extreme incident involving a SDC, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind SDCs are coming soon, as in 1-3 years. This won't be the end for Uber drivers though, that may take several more years as other companies catch up, join in, and expand.

The first SDCs you will see in actual use will almost certainly be speed and geographically limited, small, electric, and almost all will be TNCs. Unfortunately for us, that means Urban and Metropolitan SDC services in some of our largest cities. As the technology matures, speed and geo-fencing will increase and expand.

While the initial introduction will be a drop of water in a large pond, the following tidal wave won't be. Companies from around the world will be introducing their fleets and competing for market share as fast as they can. Our work will be pushed out to the suburbs and then slowly taken away completely. As sad as that is to a person like me who genuinely likes to Uber, I also welcome the benefits for society.

So, to answer the big question, this novice's guess as to when human Uber driving will be encroached upon at a noticeable level is about 3-4 years from today with the large metros being the first impacted. There should be at least half a dozen companies with live fleets in many cities by 2020-2021. When it will all but replace us completely is probably about 6-7 years from today. My advice and hope is that you prepare yourself now for an income source change. I am."

I'm not altering my prediction from March 7, 2017, but I was obviously overly-conservative. I would shave a year or two off at this point.

Which reminds me, I'm supposed to be writing another blog post and haven't finished it. I think the subject will be the psychology of Uber drivers who deny the very existence and imminent expansion of the self-driving car.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Goalpost = self-driving cars. Goalpost reached.


No sir, the real, true, goalpost all along has been: will a robot car ride sharing service get to be so big that it becomes a threat to uber? Any other level of RoboCar penetration into society means nothing to uber drivers or the UP Community.

This may not have been a very well articulated point but I'm articulating it now, and I'll bet many of my Uber driver brothers and sisters will agree.

Some people have been very zealous about their predictions of how fast robot cars will enter our lives but the events in Phoenix put a serious halt on that timeline.

Regardless- the above is and has always been the true goalpost. Talk to me when (if) it ever happens.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> No sir, the real, true, goalpost all along has been: will a robot car ride sharing service get to be so big that it becomes a threat to uber? Any other level of RoboCar penetration into society means nothing to uber drivers or the UP Community.
> 
> This may not have been a very well articulated point but I'm articulating it now, and I'll bet many of my Uber driver brothers and sisters will agree.
> 
> ...


OK, so can I get a mini-goalpost? Or do we have to wait 4-5 years for me to show you you were wrong? Is that the bar? Not until we get deactivated? There's nothing of interest and important for us to see until the ax drops? Nothing them reaching (mini)-goalposts has to teach us?



iheartuber said:


> This may not have been a very well articulated point but I'm articulating it now, and I'll bet many of my Uber driver brothers and sisters will agree.


Agree and agree. Inarticulate, uninformed (I added that for spice), and many will still agree with you. I get it.



iheartuber said:


> Some people have been very zealous about their predictions of how fast robot cars will enter our lives but the events in Phoenix put a serious halt on that timeline.


(Shhhhh, big announcement Tuesday, don't tell anyone. Even I predicted a slowdown and may be wrong AGAIN?! Damn you Waymo, stay with the damn program!)



iheartuber said:


> Regardless- the above is and has always been the true goalpost. Talk to me when (if) it ever happens.


I will. And I'll also point out the freight train bearing down on you as it comes. It's what I do, help people see what they can't/won't. Don't hate. I can't help being helpful. In ways, it's my sickness. I should be selfish and in denial to be a part of the "team", but I don't have it in me.


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

My definition of “HERE” for sdc’s is the day I can walk to the end of my driveway order one up any time of day any time of year any type of weather and go wherever I want to go by a car with no human in the drivers seat.

Anything else is just a half measure and experimental.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> No credibility with the nay-sayers who demand blind obedience to their agenda.
> 
> Goalpost = self-driving cars. Goalpost reached.
> 
> ...


1. So bottom line your prediction is 6 years or so from now robots will overtake Uber even with this fatal setback? Respectfully, for a multitude of reasons, it is my professional opinion that it will be much longer than that. But at least you're not giving completely unrealistic predictions like the "weeks away" Tomato.

2. I do not deny the very existence and imminent expansion of the self-driving car. rather, I'm just well aware of the multitude of logistics involved in running a transportation service and none of these companies are displaying any kind of evidence that they will be prepared to handle it. As it is, they have already proved that just their tech is glitchy enough to cause a death. And that's just one of many things.



Gung-Ho said:


> My definition of "HERE" for sdc's is the day I can walk to the end of my driveway order one up any time of day any time of year any type of weather and go wherever I want to go by a car with no human in the drivers seat.
> 
> Anything else is just a half measure and experimental.


Exactly my point, and I'll add two things:

1. You can currently use Uber to do exactly that right now
2. For too many reasons to go into it is my (and many others) prediction that the day when that comes is decades away. It would seem that some people say 6 years and some people say decades and Therein lies the disagreement. Also, one very insane tomato person said "weeks away" but he was so insane he had to leave UP.


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> 1. So bottom line your prediction is 6 years or so from now robots will overtake Uber even with this fatal setback? Respectfully, for a multitude of reasons, it is my professional opinion that it will be much longer than that. But at least you're not giving completely unrealistic predictions like the "weeks away" Tomato.
> 
> 2. I do not deny the very existence and imminent expansion of the self-driving car. rather, I'm just well aware of the multitude of logistics involved in running a transportation service and none of these companies are displaying any kind of evidence that they will be prepared to handle it. As it is, they have already proved that just their tech is glitchy enough to cause a death. And that's just one of many things.
> 
> ...


I'm in the decades camp for what my definition of "HERE" is.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Gung-Ho said:


> I'm in the decades camp for what my definition of "HERE" is.


Many of the UP'ers are

And the funny thing is the robo lovers have used really lame examples to prove that the "HERE" is "NOW" such as well, Waymo has an early rider test program going on! Ok.. so what?!? What does that prove?

Sheesh!


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Gung-Ho said:


> My definition of "HERE" for sdc's is the day I can walk to the end of my driveway order one up any time of day any time of year any type of weather and go wherever I want to go by a car with no human in the drivers seat.
> 
> Anything else is just a half measure and experimental.


So, this isn't about losing your Uber income to an SDC? We're setting the bar so high, it eclipses what we are here to supposedly discuss, its impact on us?

Pro tip: Most of us will be long long gone before SDCs reach autonomy.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> So, this isn't about losing your Uber income to an SDC? We're setting the bar so high, it eclipses what we are here to supposedly discuss, its impact on us?
> 
> Pro tip: Most of us will be long long gone before SDCs reach autonomy.


Tell you what. Why don't you talk to my future grandkids about how robot cars will effect hunan transportation drivers because that's about the time when it's going to have an impact on rideshare.


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> So, this isn't about losing your Uber income to an SDC? We're setting the bar so high, it eclipses what we are here to supposedly discuss, its impact on us?
> 
> Pro tip: Most of us will be long long gone before SDCs reach autonomy.


Another fallacy to your argument.

I AM NOT AN UBER DRIVER. I RUN MY OWN CAR SERVICE IS BUSINESS IS JUST FINE. 2017 WAS MY BEST YEAR EVER.

I drove a little uber( 34 total rides) 2 years ago as an experiment to see what all the big todo was about and THANKS BUT NO THANKS.

I don't see sdc's from a fear angle. I see them from a logical one.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Gung-Ho said:


> Another fallacy to your argument.
> 
> I AM NOT AN UBER DRIVER. I RUN MY OWN CAR SERVICE IS BUSINESS IS JUST FINE. 2017 WAS MY BEST YEAR EVER.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Me too. Logical.

What I don't get though is I thought RamzFanz is an Uber driver too

That being the case shouldn't he see the logic too?


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> 1. So bottom line your prediction is 6 years or so from now robots will overtake Uber even with this fatal setback? Respectfully, for a multitude of reasons, it is my professional opinion that it will be much longer than that. But at least you're not giving completely unrealistic predictions like the "weeks away" Tomato.


Ugh, why do you debate me and not read my responses and posts? I read yours. I'm considerate like that.

I do not think SDCs will overtake Uber. Uber will partner with Auto companies to provide their tech. Perhaps they will lease it.

Ignoring the largest TNC company in a WORLDWIDE race towards SDC TNC will happen at your peril. That's funny because it's at your peril EITHER WAY! Either they fail and you lose your work or they don't and they add SDCs to keep up with their new competition and you lose your work. Either way, YOU LOSE.

I have said this over and over: Uber will NOT develop their own SDC. They don't have the talent, they poached it and lost it, they suck at it, and now they killed a woman.

I would predict their SDC program is as gone as the person they killed. However, money talks, politicians are easy to buy, and the public is ignorant and easily distracted so, who knows?

Forget Uber. The tidal wave of new SDC TNC companies will take your work within 6 years regardless of Uber. GMC told their stockholders SDC TNC is their ENTIRE future. GMC. One amongst hundreds.



iheartuber said:


> 2. I do not deny the very existence and imminent expansion of the self-driving car. rather, I'm just well aware of the multitude of logistics involved in running a transportation service and none of these companies are displaying any kind of evidence that they will be prepared to handle it. As it is, they have already proved that just their tech is glitchy enough to cause a death. And that's just one of many things.


Uber caused a death. While I did not predict this, if you had asked me who would, that would have been the clear choice.

Are you selling me that you understand the logistics of a transportation company, that every major Auto company who run leasing fleets, most major tech companies, as well as many fleet management companies they have partnered with, in the world, has no idea what they are doing, you're not going to sell me. They have entire skyscrapers full of accountants and thinkers. Buildings full of engineers. We are NOT going to out-think them. They've counted the beans. They've done their homework. They've invested hundreds of billions and made promises to shareholders. UP.net is NOT out-thinking them.



iheartuber said:


> 1. You can currently use Uber to do exactly that right now


Yes. And you will also in the future, without the driver and for less.



iheartuber said:


> 2. For too many reasons to go into it is my (and many others) prediction that the day when that comes is decades away. It would seem that some people say 6 years and some people say decades and Therein lies the disagreement. Also, one very insane tomato person said "weeks away" but he was so insane he had to leave UP.


In regards to your work, it's much sooner than I predicted early last year, IMHO. They are exceeding expectations by years. If you think your knowledge of how your world works with human drivers is comparable to their knowledge of how it could work without you, I will bet all I have you are wrong.

If you're not, you get my pokeman cards and some dirty socks.



iheartuber said:


> Tell you what. Why don't you talk to my future grandkids about how robot cars will effect hunan transportation drivers because that's about the time when it's going to have an impact on rideshare.


...said the person who leaned against the weathered fence post joking with his fellow farmer about how the Wright Brothers were idiots moments before their abomination took flight.

Wake up.

It's already here and WELL before the most informed public thinkers thought it would be.

Did you think we would have SDCs in live service by May, 2016 or Oct., 2017?

No, no you didn't. Sorry for answering for you, but we both know you didn't.

Chin up cowboy, looks like you're going to have to scramble some eggs over the ol' fire next week. You'll need your strength.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Ugh, why do you debate me and not read my responses and posts? I read yours. I'm considerate like that.
> 
> I do not think SDCs will overtake Uber. Uber will partner with Auto companies to provide their tech. Perhaps they will lease it.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, I didn't make my point clear enough.

When I said robots "taking over Uber" was decades away I didn't mean Uber as a company- I meant Uber as it is now with human drivers.

For many reasons I and many others believe this is decades away to work out all the issues.

You seem to think it will come much sooner than that because so many "smart people" are "on the case"

Tell me something- did these "smart people" prevent a death?


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> Many of the UP'ers are
> 
> And the funny thing is the robo lovers have used really lame examples to prove that the "HERE" is "NOW" such as well, Waymo has an early rider test program going on! Ok.. so what?!? What does that prove?
> 
> Sheesh!


It proves it has passed a milestone that you ignore.

Keep closing your eyes, the SDC companies don't car and it won't change your future.

We WILL be hit by a tidal wave of unemployment. It IS coming. It IS closer than most Uber drivers think.

Why would a person lead others astray? I don't get it.

You seem smart. Why do you insist on harming others?



iheartuber said:


> Tell you what. Why don't you talk to my future grandkids about how robot cars will effect hunan transportation drivers because that's about the time when it's going to have an impact on rideshare.


If that's what you need, for me to explain why you failed, I will.

PM me who you want to know.

I promise not to tell them I told you so.



iheartuber said:


> Tell you what. Why don't you talk to my future grandkids about how robot cars will effect hunan transportation drivers because that's about the time when it's going to have an impact on rideshare.


OK, I love teaching history.

LOVE IT!

Hey, a quick thought, those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it.

You seem to be doomed, but I'll help your offspring going forward for them.

Thanks for the trust.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> It proves it has passed a milestone that you ignore.
> 
> Keep closing your eyes, the SDC companies don't car and it won't change your future.
> 
> ...


The only two milestones that matter is:

1. Can any company (Waymo, Uber, etc) develop a taxi system that works as well or better using robot drivers than the current system that Uber has now with hunan drivers?

2. When this system is in place, will consumers decide to ride with robots over humans?

So far, despite all the "milestones" that robo cars have made, these two goals do not look like they are close at all.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't make my point clear enough.
> 
> When I said robots "taking over Uber" was decades away I didn't mean Uber as a company- I meant Uber as it is now with human drivers.
> 
> ...


These "smart people" were not on the case to prevent Uber's caused death. I have pointed out many times, over years, Uber did not have smart people and that they were posing.

Saying Uber will cause the death of SDCs is akin to saying Blackberry will cause the death of smartphones.

No one in their right mind was betting on Blackberry. Many uneducated people did, and lost.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> These "smart people" were not on the case to prevent Uber's caused death. I have pointed out many times, over years, Uber did not have smart people and that they were posing.
> 
> Saying Uber will cause the death of SDCs is akin to saying Blackberry will cause the death of smartphones.
> 
> No one in their right mind was betting on Blackberry. Many uneducated people did, and lost.


Oh... so all other companies in the robo car biz have "real" smart people, unlike Uber? So only at uber can we see a system fail cause a death? Nowhere else?

Riiiiiiight


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

iheartuber said:


> Oh... so all other companies in the robo car biz have "real" smart people, unlike Uber? So only at uber can we see a system fail cause a death? Nowhere else?
> 
> Riiiiiiight


I realize you are more intelligent than most nay-sayers but you are still obstinate.

No, I am not saying anything of the kind.

EVERY SDC company will cause injury and death over time. The question is at what rate. None is ever going to be expected to be perfect as nay-sayers demand, they just need to be better than humans. It's really not a high bar at this point.

Have you noticed how many people you have to honk at now to get them going at a light because they are distracted? How many times do you get screwed out of a turn because someone was not paying attention?

Achieving better than human is not as hard as people on here think it is. We will see. Stay tuned. It IS coming.

Hey, remember when people on here were demanding that SDCs were 20 or 50 years away or impossible? Hello.

(Don't tell anyone, but Waymo has a big announcement Tuesday)


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> I realize you are more intelligent than most nay-sayers but you are still obstinate.
> 
> No, I am not saying anything of the kind.
> 
> ...


You are leaving out one very big piece of the puzzle: after SDC companies put their service on the mass market then they are at the mercy of the consumer.

You say "deaths will happen" but don't quite seem to get that such tragedies will cause consumers to think twice about riding with a robot


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## transporter007 (Feb 19, 2018)

tcaud said:


> There will be a terrible accident on the scale of a terrorist attack. Sadly that's what it will take to end this self-driving car obsession.


Swing and a Miss tcaud

Like I've posted numerous times, the federal government wants AND supports SDC

*Federal spending bill includes $100 million for SDC research
http://www.autonews.com/article/201...ing-bill-includes-100-million-for-av-research*

It is the first time Congress has appropriated money for the program since the Department of Transportation *designated 10 proving ground pilot sites* to encourage testing, validation and information sharing related to self-driving technologies.


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