# Elon Musk is coming for Uber, along with everyone else



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

http://qz.com/738595/elon-musk-is-coming-for-uber-along-with-everyone-else/
*Elon Musk is coming for Uber, along with everyone else*
July 22, 2016 qz.com

The threat was buried at the bottom of Elon Musk's July 20 update to his "Master Plan," three short paragraphs in a section unassumingly titled, "Sharing."

"You will also be able to add your car to the Tesla shared fleet just by tapping a button on the Tesla phone app and have it generate income for you while you're at work or on vacation," Musk wrote, explaining how Tesla's vehicles could be used by their owners and lessees once the autonomous era truly arrives. "This dramatically lowers the true cost of ownership to the point where almost anyone could own a Tesla."

Automakers have spent this year aligning themselves with ride-hailing companies as they brace for a future in which traditional car ownership gives way to "shared mobility." General Motors invested $500 million in Lyft, and bought up the remains of Sidecar. Volkswagen put $300 million into Gett. Toyota pledged an undisclosed sum to Uber. BMW, Fiat Chrysler, and Daimler also have ride-hailing partnerships.

That Tesla also wants to get in on ride-sharing isn't new or particularly surprising. The big announcement came next:

"In cities where demand exceeds the supply of customer-owned cars," Musk wrote, "Tesla will operate its own fleet, ensuring you can always hail a ride from us no matter where you are."

While automakers and tech companies have been eager to describe the autonomous future-streets traversed by vehicles that whisk their passengers to destinations at the touch of a button-they havedeliberately avoided the question of ownership.

Asked by an analyst last year during Tesla's second quarter earnings call whether the company intended to supply "cars to ride-sharing firms" or "cut out the middleman and sell on-demand electric mobility services directly," Musk responded, "that's an insightful question &#8230; I don't think I should answer it." Asked again by the same analyst the following quarter, he said, "Still no comment &#8230; I think there's a right time to make announcements. And this is not that time."

The time, apparently, was Wednesday, when Musk published his "Master Plan, Part Deux" stating that Tesla would "operate its own fleet" in the absence of individuals who own or lease the cars.

It's almost certainly a blow to Uber. Travis Kalanick, the company's CEO, has reportedly said that he would happily buy all of Tesla's projected autonomous output for 2020 if that were an option. More importantly, though, it signals that there's another company with Uber's resolve, tech savvy, and go-it-alone attitude bent on capturing a share of the ride-hailing market.

Tesla will make cars. Tesla will sell cars. Tesla will also manage ride-hailing cars. Even Uber-whose $62.5 billion valuation is largely staked on the self-driving future-hasn't made its vision that clear yet.

[ more on the Tesla plan ]


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

Elon Musk wants to keep the business all for himself. The biggest piece of the pie. Greed drive every business planner. 
Where is the place of driver?? Extinct like an old dinosaur. It will be gone very soon.
http://qz.com/738595/elon-musk-is-coming-for-uber-along-with-everyone-else/


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Theyre nuts if they think I'm owning a self driving car. And even more nuts if they think I'm going to allow a self driving car of mine(if i even did own one)to be on the road where I will be liable when it kills someone.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> http://qz.com/738595/elon-musk-is-coming-for-uber-along-with-everyone-else/
> *Elon Musk is coming for Uber, along with everyone else*
> July 22, 2016 qz.com
> 
> ...


Do you know what your car is up to while you sleep ?


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

tohunt4me said:


> Do you know what your car is up to while you sleep ?


Do you mean?: Do you know where your car is? And with whom?


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## ChinatownJake (Jan 3, 2016)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> "In cities where demand exceeds the supply of customer-owned cars," Musk wrote, "Tesla will operate its own fleet, ensuring you can always hail a ride from us no matter where you are."


Very interesting. I've said it before, I'll say it again: the big boys are going to eventually join the rideshare, autonomous movement. Google, Apple... Not to mention one or more of the three major automakers.

Reminds me also of a Pax who told me in China, forget if it was Beijing or Shanghai, one of the many Uber competitors (there are dozens) was differentiating itself by featuring only Teslas. At least that's what he claimed.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

MoneyUber4 said:


> Elon Musk wants to keep the business all for himself. The biggest piece of the pie. Greed drive every business planner.
> Where is the place of driver?? Extinct like an old dinosaur. It will be gone very soon.


Yeah - Like Mr. Otis of Otis Elevator.
I wonder if elevator operators 100 hundred years ago complained they way drivers do today.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Yeah - Like Mr. Otis of Otis Elevator.
> I wonder if elevator operators 100 hundred years ago complained they way drivers do today.


I kind of doubt it...because I'm pretty sure that they didn't have to bring the elevator that they personally paid for AND footed all of the maintenance costs for to work.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

ABC123DEF said:


> I kind of doubt it...because I'm pretty sure that they didn't have to bring the elevator that they bought and supplied all the maintenance costs for to work.


I don't see the relevance - and the comment misses the point any way.
Advances in technology and automation have always affected the types of jobs required in the work place.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

And I doubt that you will ever see the relevance. You must not know much about the owner/operator trucking business...which is basically what Uber should be but on a local scale.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

I think they just smell sucker investors. Every investor in the world is piling money into these silly Rideshare companies. Every company that needs to scrounge up some bucks mentions ridesharing and the $billions flow in like water.

Never mind that the vast majority of people have zero desire to let random strangers ride in their cars. And even fewer will want their cars driving who knows where without them even in the vehicle!

Can't wait for the first autonomous UberTesla to return home with a corpse in the back seat. That'll make the news.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Yeah - Like Mr. Otis of Otis Elevator.
> I wonder if elevator operators 100 hundred years ago complained they way drivers do today.


This business does have its ups and downs.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> This business does have its ups and downs.


Escalators are "SAFER".


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

ABC123DEF said:


> I kind of doubt it...because I'm pretty sure that they didn't have to bring the elevator that they bought and supplied all the maintenance costs for to work.


Or compete with 100 elevators on a 10 story building with 50 occupants.


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## Chicago88 (Feb 7, 2016)

Tesla is a car manufacturer...leading into battery manufacturer...oddly enough tying in (as well) solar energy - which appears to be a side interest of Musk personally - but I don't think Tesla wants to venture too far into rideshare. I'm going to guess (wildly) its google that will destroy Uber. Uber provides a simple basic platform that is (and has been) easily replicated. While Uber enjoys a "market dominance" and the first to market leader of the industry it still has many many flaws. The algorithms and data Uber collects has some value - but again, easily replicated...what google is doing (and has been doing) is collecting every aspect of transportation...mapping, driver free software controlled cars, etc...my long story being Google doesn't need Uber (never will) but Google might have a slight interest in a car manufacturer to partner with...or even buy.


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## Reversoul (Feb 8, 2016)

MoneyUber4 said:


> Elon Musk wants to keep the business all for himself. The biggest piece of the pie. Greed drive every business planner.
> Where is the place of driver?? Extinct like an old dinosaur. It will be gone very soon.
> http://qz.com/738595/elon-musk-is-coming-for-uber-along-with-everyone-else/


Terrible acting


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## El Janitor (Feb 22, 2016)

Tesla shared fleet? Autonomous vehicles? Okay so we're going to replace all the busses, and taxis, and cars with individual Tesla cars? How does this work? I'm thinking two things here:

Rental cars, well we won't be needing those anymore either, because I'll be able to push a button and my TUBER car will arrive and greet me with a recorded welcome. Then I won't have to touch the wheel or do anything but sit until I get to my destination. So we wont need busses, taxis, or anything but little robot cars to take our already lazy butts to the fast food joint to get fatter.

Did you ever drive a go cart at a Go cart track when you were a kid? Or ride an amusement park ride several times? There's always that one car, or seat that just sucks, usually has grafitti all over it. You know the one if you sat in it. Anyways, I'm thinking everyone's going to get that one sooner or later. You know a little wet seat, smells kinda funky,"I so hope thats yogurt on the seat," that one. And think you'll own it as part of the Joint Tesla Fleet, lucky you.


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

Why do people fall for this science fiction that driverless cars are coming soon to an area near you. The days when this technology [ if it ever gets approved for commercial use] are at LEAST 20 years away. When I was growing up in the sixties they promised me flying cars by the year 2000. Haven't seen one yet hovering over a crowded highway. The last time we put a man on the moon was over 40 years ago now they talk about going to Mars...right!..Just about the time we get self driving flying cars.


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## Reversoul (Feb 8, 2016)

Gung-Ho said:


> Why do people fall for this science fiction that driverless cars are coming soon to an area near you. The days when this technology [ if it ever gets approved for commercial use] are at LEAST 20 years away. When I was growing up in the sixties they promised me flying cars by the year 2000. Haven't seen one yet hovering over a crowded highway. The last time we put a man on the moon was over 40 years ago now they talk about going to Mars...right!..Just about the time we get self driving flying cars.


I grew up in the 80's and I'm still waiting for my hover board that was supposed to be here in 2015.

Michael J Fox made it look so cool!


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

Reversoul said:


> I grew up in the 80's and I'm still waiting for my hover board that was supposed to be here in 2015.
> 
> Michael J Fox made it look so cool!


Right yeah good point. They do have hover boards now but there is a tendency for the battery to catch on fire. But where is that time traveling Delorean? Huh? Huh? Huh?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Gung-Ho said:


> Right yeah good point. They do have hover boards now but there is a tendency for the battery to catch on fire. But where is that time traveling Delorean? Huh? Huh? Huh?


CHINEESE BATTERIES !

COMMUNISTS MAKE GOOD COPIES THAT NEVER FUNCTION PROPERLY.

Ever use a Chineese cresent wrench ?
Your knuckles know the difference !

Or perhaps the Communist Chineese just WANT to burn down American homes & children ?


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Reversoul said:


> I grew up in the 80's and I'm still waiting for my hover board that was supposed to be here in 2015.
> 
> Michael J Fox made it look so cool!


Depending on who you ask, we do have hoverboards. (self-balancing scooters)


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

The day he's able to achieve his personal dream of going to the moon, and making it commercially accessible like one would a flight across the Atlantic, *then maybe *I'd consider his "plan" plausible.

Besides liability of if anyone gets hurt or killed by the car, just the basics...

What if someone hacks from within and steals to strip down?

What if someone decides to have a champagne popping party?

What if someone decides they need new floor mats?

Righttttttttt because even if someone is affording the tesla on the principle of doing ride sharing to make it "affordable", they'd have to pony up the downpayment and that is signing on a huge commitment

For those who can afford it outright or to do it on the sticker tag but in monthly increments - they ain't gonna wanna have no dirty feets in their ride.


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## Ubernic (Apr 24, 2016)

Yes because when I get back into town I will be more than happy to clean out the filthy disgusting mess left behind by unsupervised riders. This is a good way for you to get your car destroyed and trashed fast. With Uber, I am the Sheriff when it comes to who does what in my car.


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## Chicago88 (Feb 7, 2016)

In theory - compete guessing - the ride share Teslas would be stripped down, double seated at best cheap cars... Otherwise the long term prospects are terrible. The video in this thread isn't what the cars will look like. Cheap cheap cheap is the only way to maintain cost for a large market. Luxury vehicles might be by schedule and may even include bed like cabin for long distant rides... But if this concept has any chance at all think cheap.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

No Tesla owner is going to sub out his 80K car to some slep to use when they're away. Those folks don't need the money.


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## rudygti (May 16, 2016)

yeah im really afraid of this after the multiple fatalities from his cars... lmao


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## UberEricLong (Oct 28, 2015)

Elon Musk, Tesla and SpaceX are awesome! Needless to say, I'm a huge fan. No offense, but most of the posts in this thread, and others on Elon and Tesla, are severely lacking in facts. If you truly want to learn about Elon, and want to understand why he is one of the great geniuses of our time, start by reading this post on waitbuywhy.com. It's absolutely brilliant (I also suggest reading Tim's post on AI because it will change your life). If you are anything like me, you will be compelled to learn more. If that's the case I recommend reading his biography when you finish with Tim's blog.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

2009-2016:

Cab Drivers: "You're destroying our livelihood!"
Uber: "Get with the times! This is innovation!"

2017- ??

Uber Drivers: "You're destroying our livelihood!"
Tesla: "Get with the times! This is innovation!"


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Gung-Ho said:


> Why do people fall for this science fiction that driverless cars are coming soon to an area near you. The days when this technology [ if it ever gets approved for commercial use] are at LEAST 20 years away. When I was growing up in the sixties they promised me flying cars by the year 2000. Haven't seen one yet hovering over a crowded highway. The last time we put a man on the moon was over 40 years ago now they talk about going to Mars...right!..Just about the time we get self driving flying cars.


Yeah, the future never turns out quite like we imagine it will.


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## WeirdBob (Jan 2, 2016)

Oh, I thought you said "ELI's coming".


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## SomeDrivingGuy (May 10, 2016)

Tesla owners just lost.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

Gung-Ho said:


> Why do people fall for this science fiction that driverless cars are coming soon to an area near you. The days when this technology [ if it ever gets approved for commercial use] are at LEAST 20 years away. When I was growing up in the sixties they promised me flying cars by the year 2000. Haven't seen one yet hovering over a crowded highway. The last time we put a man on the moon was over 40 years ago now they talk about going to Mars...right!..Just about the time we get self driving flying cars.


The "problem" with flying cars isn't they haven't been built (research the "Aerocar" Molt Taylor built and sold back in the 60's).

What (mostly) blocks the "flying car" is the pilot license needed to fly one. Most pilots don't want a "half-ass" airplane to fly. And most drivers don't want a "half-ass" car to drive.

But I agree with you. Self-drivers (as in driver-less, not auto-pilot) is still a long way off.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

MoneyUber4 said:


> Greed drive [sic] every business planner.


False.

Learn what greed really means, world.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

REX HAVOC said:


> Now he wants to sell you Solar too.


At least he has a product to sell. I don't know what the beef is with people and Musk. He's putting his and the investors money to work. Something more than most of American millionaire/billionaires are doing.

America would be "great again" if more of these greedy ass wealthy pigs did something other than hide their money in off-shore accounts.

When will Uber produce something other than an app?


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

renbutler said:


> False.
> 
> Learn what greed really means, world.


Exactly. Greedy is the last thing Musk is. Wildly driven he is. A pain in the ass to work for? Again, true. But what a vision this man has. There is no equal to him (at the moment) in this country.

The Tesla is one of the finest automobiles one can buy. Too bad the other U.S. companies won't build a car as nice.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Actually, I was going against the common (and sorely incorrect) notion that trying to build a successful and profitable company and defeat competitors is not the same thing as greed.

Some who do that are greedy, but many others are not.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

UberEricLong said:


> Elon Musk, Tesla and SpaceX are awesome! Needless to say, I'm a huge fan. No offense, but most of the posts in this thread, and others on Elon and Tesla, are severely lacking in facts. If you truly want to learn about Elon, and want to understand why he is one of the great geniuses of our time, start by reading this post on waitbuywhy.com.


Well only time will tell if the guy is a "genius" or just happened to make a wad of money on PayPal and spent it on a ton of stuff that never really amounted to much. We'll see!


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## Coconutz (Mar 8, 2016)

MoneyUber4 said:


> Elon Musk wants to keep the business all for himself. The biggest piece of the pie. Greed drive every business planner.
> Where is the place of driver?? Extinct like an old dinosaur. It will be gone very soon.
> http://qz.com/738595/elon-musk-is-coming-for-uber-along-with-everyone-else/


Do they not make seat belts in Saudi??? That makes pax even more reckless, no seat belt in a car with no driver oooookkkkkkk


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## Coconutz (Mar 8, 2016)

Aft


Flarpy said:


> Well only time will tell if the guy is a "genius" or just happened to make a wad of money on PayPal and spent it on a ton of stuff that never really amounted to much. We'll see!


after reading his bio I thought he was a bit of a dick. Like most "geniuses" very self absorbed and disconnected to the world in the kind of way where u can't talk to certain people at a barbecue or some relaxed social setting. Maybe I'm blind to the future, but I won't b buying a tesla for its auto pilot features.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> Do you know what your car is up to while you sleep ?


Do you know who is doing what in your car to whom while you sleep?

Calling it a Master Plan seems a little too Dr. Evil to inspire a lot of confidence, but with enough money anyone can pretty much do anything.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Do you know who is doing what in your car to whom while you sleep?
> 
> Calling it a Master Plan seems a little too Dr. Evil to inspire a lot of confidence, but with enough money anyone can pretty much do anything.


My car will be staying at home at night powering the air conditioning with its battery . . .


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

sellkatsell44 said:


> The day he's able to achieve his personal dream of going to the moon, and making it commercially accessible like one would a flight across the Atlantic, *then maybe *I'd consider his "plan" plausible.
> 
> Besides liability of if anyone gets hurt or killed by the car, just the basics...
> 
> ...


What is there nothing in teh Master Plan about self-cleaning? cleanerless-vehicles right. they cook you dinner too.

http://www.wikihow.com/Cook-Food-on-Your-Car's-Engine


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DriverX said:


> What is there nothing in teh Master Plan about self-cleaning? cleanerless-vehicles right. they cook you dinner too.
> 
> http://www.wikihow.com/Cook-Food-on-Your-Car's-Engine


Would have to be fiberglass seats with vinyl,like a carnival ride.

Interior of car would have to be all thick vinyl and hard plastics,with spray jets installed throughout interior.

Quick connect could be located under rear quarter panel,so machine could connect water supply 3 minute interior spray down,followed by doors open hot air quick dry.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

To think that people are going to buy a new car -- even a cheap one -- and have no problem immediately pimping it out unsupervised to strangers shows a lack of understanding of human nature so profound that I don't think even goofy Elon is capable of it.

Which is why I believe it's a ploy to get $$$ out of investors.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Coconutz said:


> Aft
> 
> after reading his bio I thought he was a bit of a &%[email protected]!*. Like most "geniuses" very self absorbed and disconnected to the world in the kind of way where u can't talk to certain people at a barbecue or some relaxed social setting. Maybe I'm blind to the future, but I won't b buying a tesla for its auto pilot features.


I doubt Elon qualifies as genius in the strict sense. He built a website with some other people who refused to let him run it, rode the tech bubble and they sold it for a lot of money, then invested in paypal, then got even more money selling that. now he spends a lot of money on sci-space-tech-auto companies because its fun and maybe he gets off on all the adoration for being Green Jesus or whatever. great timing and a knack for convincing investors he's a genius is maybe his only real genius. Time will tell the true impact of Tesla, so far it is a Delorean. If the model 3 turns out to be a reliable production vehicle and becomes more affordable he could be a Henry Ford one day.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

True. The only "genius" these CEOs have shown so far is an ability to get money out of people. Which is a great skill to have, for sure, but let's put things in perspective.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Flarpy said:


> True. The only "genius" these CEOs have shown so far is an ability to get money out of people. Which is a great skill to have, for sure, but let's put things in perspective.


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## NoCommission (May 23, 2016)

Whoever will start the driverless fleet will declare bankruptcy in less than two years. If people still can't trust planes and trains with autopilot and they always keep captain on board because they know people will never use their service if they knew that it is 100% autopilot. What will make people trust a driverless car to not crash on the highway? This whole kids project doesn't bother me at all as a driver.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Driving and Driven said:


> 2009-2016:
> 
> Cab Drivers: "You're destroying our livelihood!"
> Uber: "Get with the times! This is innovation!"
> ...


Do Uber drivers even have a livelihood? There was some money to be made a couple of years ago...but I thought we had been turned into lab rats that the execs just stealing from and enjoy playing mind games with.


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## PoorBasterd (Mar 6, 2015)

Flarpy said:


> Can't wait for the first autonomous UberTesla to return home with a corpse in the back seat. That'll make the news.


Goal!!!!


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## SoThisIsRetirement (Feb 16, 2016)

Gung-Ho said:


> Why do people fall for this science fiction that driverless cars are coming soon to an area near you. The days when this technology [ if it ever gets approved for commercial use] are at LEAST 20 years away. When I was growing up in the sixties they promised me flying cars by the year 2000. Haven't seen one yet hovering over a crowded highway. The last time we put a man on the moon was over 40 years ago now they talk about going to Mars...right!..Just about the time we get self driving flying cars.


Wow, some of us really are out of touch with reality. Gung-Ho, when was the last time you paid attention to anything going on in today's' world besides the Kardashian's or who Taylor Swift is dating this month? Google has logged over 3MM miles on their autonomous vehicles, and now has a fleet of autonomous Lexus SUV's right here in Phoenix, driving on our streets and highways every single day...and night. Even all States Motor Vehicle Departments are preparing for the mass introduction of these vehicles, by almost every manufacturer, in 2020. Read this article from the July 1st 2016 issue of Fortune magazine, (_I'm not being allowed to post the link even though I've met the criteria - see Fortune dot calm and search in the "Autos" section, where there's numerous articles on Autonomous vehicles and the future of all things automotive)_ and perhaps you won't be so totally surprised by what happens in our world in the next 3-5 years...



Flarpy said:


> To think that people are going to buy a new car -- even a cheap one -- and have no problem immediately pimping it out unsupervised to strangers shows a lack of understanding of human nature so profound that I don't think even goofy Elon is capable of it.
> 
> Which is why I believe it's a ploy to get $$$ out of investors.


Hmm, have you ever heard of apartments and/or rental properties?? Perhaps you should visit the link I posted above as well...


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

SoThisIsRetirement said:


> Wow, some of us really are out of touch with reality. Gung-Ho, when was the last time you paid attention to anything going on in today's' world besides the Kardashian's or who Taylor Swift is dating this month? Google has logged over 3MM miles on their autonomous vehicles, and now has a fleet of autonomous Lexus SUV's right here in Phoenix, driving on our streets and highways every single day...and night. Even all States Motor Vehicle Departments are preparing for the mass introduction of these vehicles, by almost every manufacturer, in 2020. Read this article from the July 1st 2016 issue of Fortune magazine, (_I'm not being allowed to post the link even though I've met the criteria - see Fortune dot calm and search in the "Autos" section, where there's numerous articles on Autonomous vehicles and the future of all things automotive)_ and perhaps you won't be so totally surprised by what happens in our world in the next 3-5 years...
> 
> Hmm, have you ever heard of apartments and/or rental properties?? Perhaps you should visit the link I posted above as well...


An autonomous vehicle[as you call it ]with a driver behind the wheel is worlds different than a driverless car transporting passengers for commercial use which is what this thread is about.


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## LA Cabbie (Nov 4, 2014)

Gung-Ho said:


> Why do people fall for this science fiction that driverless cars are coming soon to an area near you. The days when this technology [ if it ever gets approved for commercial use] are at LEAST 20 years away. When I was growing up in the sixties they promised me flying cars by the year 2000. Haven't seen one yet hovering over a crowded highway. The last time we put a man on the moon was over 40 years ago now they talk about going to Mars...right!..Just about the time we get self driving flying cars.


They have had a flying car for a couple of years now. It has a wing design that folds up or down depending on the mood. Google it. Not that many out there. But still long road away from becoming like a normal every day car/plane.


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## LA Cabbie (Nov 4, 2014)

phillipzx3 said:


> The "problem" with flying cars isn't they haven't been built (research the "Aerocar" Molt Taylor built and sold back in the 60's).


https://www.terrafugia.com/tf-x/


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

LA Cabbie said:


> They have had a flying car for a couple of years now. It has a wing design that folds up or down depending on the mood. Google it. Not that many out there. But still long road away from becoming like a normal every day car/plane.


That's been my point all along. Prototypes and experimental machines are one thing. Just like these self driving cars a LONG way off from being a humanless operated option for motorized transportation commercially.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

SoThisIsRetirement said:


> Hmm, have you ever heard of apartments and/or rental properties?? Perhaps you should visit the link I posted above as well...


The difference is that people buy rental properties specifically to generate income. Most people don't buy cars for the purpose of having strangers ride around in them. Except taxi companies.

One might assume that people who have extra money will purchase extra cars and then hire them out. This might be true, but very soon the number of vehicles on the road will snowball and will make the profit from a privately owned fleet of autonomous vehicles so low that it won't be worth it. And then that owner is stuck making payments on vehicles that can't make enough money to pay for themselves.

The reason this will happen is because, while the amount of land (real estate) is generally fixed (or grows very slowly as new areas are developed), the number of cars on the road is certainly not. Therefore the supply of vehicles can be essentially infinite and can grow very quickly, unlike land. Anyone who invests in a bunch of cars for the purpose of income generation will have to do it very quickly after they're introduced and, even then, will see his investment diminish as more people put their own "fleets" on the road.

So, to summarize, comparing rental properties such as apartments, etc., to rental vehicles is not a very good idea. A better analogy might be AirBnB. However, with AirBnB you can choose the people who stay in your place. It's not just randoms off the street. And it's not dozens of faceless people each day. And the house isn't moving around going unknown places, obviously.


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## Pashaster (Nov 3, 2015)

Uber doesn't even have the technology to pinpoint the exact customer location at the mall
How the eF are the AI cars gonna find their riders by themselves? lol


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## Garyk69 (Jul 27, 2016)

Pashaster said:


> Uber doesn't even have the technology to pinpoint the exact customer location at the mall
> How the eF are the AI cars gonna find their riders by themselves? lol


What he said!!!


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## Garyk69 (Jul 27, 2016)

I would say that more than half the time I have to call the customer and ask them exactly where they are and I can picture the car trying to call the customer and establish their exact location


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

Just act super excited about some fantasy future idea and talk as if it's a sure thing and people will send you cash.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Flarpy said:


> I think they just smell sucker investors. Every investor in the world is piling money into these silly Rideshare companies. Every company that needs to scrounge up some bucks mentions ridesharing and the $billions flow in like water.
> 
> Never mind that the vast majority of people have zero desire to let random strangers ride in their cars. And even fewer will want their cars driving who knows where without them even in the vehicle!
> 
> Can't wait for the first autonomous UberTesla to return home with a corpse in the back seat. That'll make the news.


Only the first couple times. Dead bodies, urine, feces, garbage, etc. will be commonplace. I, personally, plan to take a nice healthy shit in an Uber on my way to work every morning


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## uberist (Jul 14, 2016)

Every ten years for the 53 ive been alive some BS like this comes out, like flying cars to beat the commute, the news shows some prototype that may or may not fly,
Investors toss money at it, the owners of the fly car company laugh all the way to the bank, the flying car gets pushed into a garage

And evryone forgets about it except the investor that was duped and is now living pay check to pay check trying to work the surge.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

When Henry Ford developed mass production and start putting Model T's on the road, people thought he had lost his mind.

When the Wright brothers leveraged their bicycle shop into developing the first machine capable of self-sustained flight, people thought they had lost their mind and nothing would ever come of it.

When Chris Columbus was out looking for a faster route across the world for drug trade transit and announced to the Queen that the world was round, people thought he had lost his head, or was about to.

Big advances in technology which affect our socio-economic status are hard to accept because they make us wonder about our livelihood.

We put men on the moon almost fifty years ago. We have the capability of completely portable, near-instantaneous video and audio communication around the world. Why would a self-driving car be so hard to fathom?


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

However, Henry Ford believed it was necessary to pay the people who made this products enough so they could actually afford to buy them.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

ABC123DEF said:


> However, Henry Ford believed it was necessary to pay the people who made this products enough so they could actually afford to buy them.


Yeah? That's great. How much did they get paid?


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Driving and Driven said:


> Yeah? That's great. How much did they get paid?


They made $5.00 per day which was equal to a pretty high wage by today's standards.

http://www.npr.org/2014/01/27/267145552/the-middle-class-took-off-100-years-ago-thanks-to-henry-ford

I can cite more sources if you'd like.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

ABC123DEF said:


> They made $5.00 per day which was equal to a pretty high wage by today's standards.
> 
> http://www.npr.org/2014/01/27/267145552/the-middle-class-took-off-100-years-ago-thanks-to-henry-ford
> 
> I can cite more sources if you'd like.


Nope. That'll do.

Thanks for the info!


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## NoCommission (May 23, 2016)

Rat said:


> Only the first couple times. Dead bodies, urine, feces, garbage, etc. will be commonplace. I, personally, plan to take a nice healthy shit in an Uber on my way to work every morning





Driving and Driven said:


> When Henry Ford developed mass production and start putting Model T's on the road, people thought he had lost his mind.
> 
> When the Wright brothers leveraged their bicycle shop into developing the first machine capable of self-sustained flight, people thought they had lost their mind and nothing would ever come of it.
> 
> ...


Because non of all inventions you mentioned operated without human even the auto pilot still controlled by human.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

NoCommission said:


> Because non of all inventions you mentioned operated without human even the auto pilot still controlled by human.


That 47-year-old rocket wasn't guided by humans. They were just along for the ride.


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## NoCommission (May 23, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> That 47-year-old rocket wasn't guided by humans. They were just along for the ride.


It is all guided by humans, they watch it and control it the whole time from the earth. Are they going to hire employee to remote each driverless car? even if they will do that they will have to pay minimum wage for each employee which uberx driver already getting paid less than that to operate their business.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

NoCommission said:


> It is all guided by humans, they watch it and control it the whole time from the earth. Are they going to hire employee to remote each driverless car? even if they will do that they will have to pay minimum wage for each employee which uberx driver already getting paid less than that to operate their business.


That rocket was preprogrammed the entire trip. Do you know anything about the space program?

By the way, all of that is superfluous to the issue at hand. We're talking about cars in 2016.


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## Ubernic (Apr 24, 2016)

Not even the same thing. This is something that simply will not work without a human. People not only adjust to situations with common sense, but they also maintain the car and keep it clean. A robot car would turn into a public toilet real fast, people would feel dirty in them, and they would get thrashed. Then imagine the GPS is slightly wrong, try telling the computer to go around to the other side of the airport when it takes you to the back gate because GPS isn't perfect. Then imagine when you call in to those automated systems, and all you want is to interact with a human because you know a 5 second sentence will solve all your issues, but a computer doesn't get it, so you have to sit there, late for whatever you're going to do, because you are arguing with a computer. No thanks.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Twenty years ago, we couldn't imagine a handheld device that could broadcast video and audio around the world. Now, you can get one for $30 a month.


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## NoCommission (May 23, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> That rocket was preprogrammed the entire trip. Do you know anything about the space program?
> 
> By the way, all of that is superfluous to the issue at hand. We're talking about cars in 2016.


We will see I am expecting the whole project will stop once it hit the road with a maximum one year.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Theyre nuts if they think I'm owning a self driving car. And even more nuts if they think I'm going to allow a self driving car of mine(if i even did own one)to be on the road where I will be liable when it kills someone.


That's great news, more pax for me.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

ChinatownJake said:


> Very interesting. I've said it before, I'll say it again: the big boys are going to eventually join the rideshare, autonomous movement. Google, Apple... Not to mention one or more of the three major automakers.


GMs entire business model is based upon SDC TNC and has been for some time now since dropping a billion on it with Lyft. Ford, Google, and Uber are already in bed. Uber also has a deal with Toyota. Apple is an investor in Didi. Almost every major auto and tech company in the world is already in on it.



Flarpy said:


> Never mind that the vast majority of people have zero desire to let random strangers ride in their cars. And even fewer will want their cars driving who knows where without them even in the vehicle!


Over a million Uber drivers and how many Lyft and Didi allow random strangers in their cars now? Taxis? They're called cameras and fees, look into them.



Chicago88 said:


> I'm going to guess (wildly) its google that will destroy Uber.


Google is partnering with Uber.



Chicago88 said:


> my long story being Google doesn't need Uber (never will) but Google might have a slight interest in a car manufacturer to partner with...or even buy.


See above. Google isn't building a car, they are building a SDC platform to lease to manufacturers.



Gung-Ho said:


> Why do people fall for this science fiction that driverless cars are coming soon to an area near you. The days when this technology [ if it ever gets approved for commercial use] are at LEAST 20 years away.


2 years. You meant 2 years, but you wrote 20. By the way, you're behind on the news, there are already SDCs in the Netherlands on the road in service, so, definitely off on your prediction.



sellkatsell44 said:


> Besides liability of if anyone gets hurt or killed by the car, just the basics...


Its called insurance. Cheap insurance because they will be so safe.



sellkatsell44 said:


> What if someone hacks from within and steals to strip down?


What if someone steals your car today? Stop making cars?



sellkatsell44 said:


> What if someone decides to have a champagne popping party?


Awesome! Better than on the road driving. If they spill, they pay, just like now.



sellkatsell44 said:


> What if someone decides they need new floor mats?


You charge them for the new floor mats? Is this a trick question?



Ubernic said:


> Yes because when I get back into town I will be more than happy to clean out the filthy disgusting mess left behind by unsupervised riders. This is a good way for you to get your car destroyed and trashed fast. With Uber, I am the Sheriff when it comes to who does what in my car.


Why would you assume they would be unsupervised or wouldn't be charged for any mess? Doesn't that seem silly?



rudygti said:


> yeah im really afraid of this after the multiple fatalities from his cars... lmao


One fatality and none caused by the car. Besides, there are no self driving Teslas so not sure what you are refering to.



phillipzx3 said:


> But I agree with you. Self-drivers (as in driver-less, not auto-pilot) is still a long way off.


Like, last May? When the first ones went on the road live in the Netherlands? Or did you mean like 2 years in the US?



Flarpy said:


> Well only time will tell if the guy is a "genius" or just happened to make a wad of money on PayPal and spent it on a ton of stuff that never really amounted to much. We'll see!


He just _happened _to make a wad of money on paypal and just _happened _to land a rocket on an autonomous barge and just _happened _to make electric sports and luxury cars a reality? Didn't amount to much?! Dude, at least read something. He's changing the space and electric car sectors single handedly.



Flarpy said:


> True. The only "genius" these CEOs have shown so far is an ability to get money out of people. Which is a great skill to have, for sure, but let's put things in perspective.


And land rockets on autonomous barges at sea after delivering its payload. Changing the entire price structure of reliable space delivery. Getting money _and_ that? By the way, he used mostly his own money, but let's not bother with facts.



NoCommission said:


> Whoever will start the driverless fleet will declare bankruptcy in less than two years. If people still can't trust planes and trains with autopilot and they always keep captain on board because they know people will never use their service if they knew that it is 100% autopilot. What will make people trust a driverless car to not crash on the highway? This whole kids project doesn't bother me at all as a driver.


Modern planes are piloted for about 6 minutes a flight. Trains have an engineer because they are so relatively cheap, it's not an interest of the companies for the most part. Some are investing heavily, but it's mostly, meh. What will make people trust it? Its safety record. The real question is what would make people trust the 1.2M per year killing human drivers?

2-3 years. That's what we have before we start seeing SDCs regularly in the US.



Gung-Ho said:


> That's been my point all along. Prototypes and experimental machines are one thing. Just like these self driving cars a LONG way off from being a humanless operated option for motorized transportation commercially.


2-3 years is a long way off? And that, only if you ignore they are already on the road in use in the Netherlands?



Pashaster said:


> Uber doesn't even have the technology to pinpoint the exact customer location at the mall
> How the eF are the AI cars gonna find their riders by themselves? lol


It's a fair point. GPS does suck at times. Of course, you just make it the paxs responsibility for a correct pin drop and the whole problem goes away.



uberist said:


> Every ten years for the 53 ive been alive some BS like this comes out, like flying cars to beat the commute, the news shows some prototype that may or may not fly,
> Investors toss money at it, the owners of the fly car company laugh all the way to the bank, the flying car gets pushed into a garage
> 
> And evryone forgets about it except the investor that was duped and is now living pay check to pay check trying to work the surge.


BS like personal computers, the internet, phones you carry around, streaming videos, microwave ovens, video chat, car sized probes on Mars, and GPS? That far fetched nonsense?

Oh, and these investors about which you speak? Like Google, Apple, microsoft, NVidia, GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW...well...EVERY major tech and auto company in the world? They're all wrong and you're right? They're all lying to dump on their stockholders? OK.



NoCommission said:


> It is all guided by humans, they watch it and control it the whole time from the earth.


Dude...stop...my sides!



Ubernic said:


> robot car would turn into a public toilet real fast, people would feel dirty in them, and they would get thrashed.


They're called fees and arrests. It's not hard to figure out.



Ubernic said:


> Then imagine the GPS is slightly wrong, try telling the computer to go around to the other side of the airport when it takes you to the back gate because GPS isn't perfect.


It's a good thing they don't drive by GPS then!



NoCommission said:


> We will see I am expecting the whole project will stop once it hit the road with a maximum one year.


Project? Almost every major tech and auto company in the world is involved heavily in SDCs. GM alone has invested a billion dollars. Lord knows what Google has invested. This isn't a project, it's a revolution.


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## uberist (Jul 14, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> BS like personal computers, the internet, phones you carry around, streaming videos, microwave ovens, video chat, car sized probes on Mars, and GPS? That far fetched nonsense?
> 
> Oh, and these investors about which you speak? Like Google, Apple, microsoft, NVidia, GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW...well...EVERY major tech and auto company in the world? They're all wrong and you're right? They're all lying to dump on their stockholders? OK.


None of the things you mentioned had to overcome 100+ year old infrastructure practically and demand by the masses, no doubt people want cars with auto pilot or driver assistance but driverless cars by the but load? Not in the next 50 years

Btw not many people to run over on mars


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

uberist said:


> None of the things you mentioned had to overcome 100+ year old infrastructure practically and demand by the masses, no doubt people want cars with auto pilot or driver assistance but driverless cars by the but load? Not in the next 50 years
> 
> Btw not many people to run over on mars


What? SDCs need no new infrastructure where many of those I listed did. Demand by the masses? No one demanded a horseless carriage, they just accepted them.

You're so wrong. SDCs are going to be a thing in 2 years and dominating in less than 10. This is perhaps the biggest push since space and we are far more capable than we were then. This combined effort far exceeds the moon landings in expertise and expenditure. Massive companies, hundreds of them, are all betting their futures on it.

I'm 51. In my life I have never seen this much power, money, and expertise unite behind one purpose, not even close. By not close, I mean not even 10%. I'm being generous because I can't even think of 1% of this effort to a single new purpose. Maybe home computers or cell phones, but I doubt it.


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## uberist (Jul 14, 2016)

Haha haha 2 years Bwahahahah


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

uberist said:


> None of the things you mentioned had to overcome 100+ year old infrastructure practically and demand by the masses, no doubt people want cars with auto pilot or driver assistance but driverless cars by the but load? Not in the next 50 years
> 
> Btw not many people to run over on mars


I realize I'm probably biased as a cab driver, but I really don't have any desire to get in a car without a Human driver.

Statistics about crashes/deaths wouldn't make me feel safer at all. Don't really ever see people getting on a pilotless passenger jet, either. And that relies far less on infrastructure.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

A self-driving car on a highway of human-operated cars can be a scary prospect. A self-driving car on a highway of other self-driving cars would be much safer. All of these SDC's are designed to communicate with other cars through close-range RF data exchange and they will know each others intent much better and sooner than a human driver. They can adjust their course accordingly long before most hazards are even apparent to us. Now, the scenario where some hacker texts you and says transfer all your money to their PayPal account or he will crash your vehicle remotely is a story that may be a Will Smith movie or may make the evening news, depending on how well security is done in these vehicles, but anything online has the possibility of being hacked. 

Funnier yet...I work on a computer all day in an office and, while I look forward to eating a bagel, sipping coffee and reading the paper while my car drives me to work, it's ironic that I can't just log in from home to do my work. Telecommuting is something they predicted would be mainstream by now but is still restricted to, usually, those who are in upper level management and, even then, only occasionally.

Some predictions come barreling in to our lives while others remain a distant dream. I still have plans for my four-acre retirement home on Mars.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> GMs entire business model is based upon SDC TNC and has been for some time now since dropping a billion on it with Lyft. Ford, Google, and Uber are already in bed. Uber also has a deal with Toyota. Apple is an investor in Didi. Almost every major auto and tech company in the world is already in on it.
> 
> Over a million Uber drivers and how many Lyft and Didi allow random strangers in their cars now? Taxis? They're called cameras and fees, look into them.
> 
> ...


The driverless cars in the Netherlands have drivers. A "driverless" Tesla DID kill it's driver. He said 20, he meant 20, not 2.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Rat said:


> The driverless cars in the Netherlands have drivers. A "driverless" Tesla DID kill it's driver. He said 20, he meant 20, not 2.


Tesla does not yet make or sell a driverless car, so no, one did not kill anyone. That's like calling cruise control driverless, it's not.

I'm confused by your logic. You claim a self driving car killed a man and also that it will be 20 years before we have SDCs?

The driverless WEpod in the Netherlands doesn't even have human controls and moved from a closed college campus to the open road in May. At first they had "attendants" to explain the vehicle and process, but I don't think they even have those any more.

I'm not sure this is it, it's marked somewhat differently, but it's just like it:


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> Tesla does not yet make or sell a driverless car, so no, one did not kill anyone. That's like calling cruise control driverless, it's not.
> 
> I'm confused by your logic. You claim a self driving car killed a man and also that it will be 20 years before we have SDCs?
> 
> ...


Did I say Tesla sells a driverless car? If you paid attention, recently a Tesla prototype driverless car drove under a semi-trailer, killing the technition sitting in the drivers seat. I'll watch your video, but I'm willing to bet there is some sort of human override in those vehicles in the Netherlands. Regardless, Uber has never invested didlely in the fleet it has now. Buying and maintaining those cars would bankrupt Uber. Think about it, they will need a million cars to replace the fleet they have now. Those cars will be vandalized faster than they can be repaired or replaced. All one has to do to total one out is merely step in front of it and it will drive off the road. Thinking SDCs will replace human driven cars is nieve.
Watched the video. Predetermined route at a walking speed with no traffic. "On demand" is not someone standing on a predetermined route. That vehicle would take 2-3 hours to get me to work, assuming it could find my house. After dropping me off, no one else use going to get in it. If you video tape me while I am in it, I will sue you for invasion of privacy. You can't put cameras in a public toilet, er Uber.


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Tesla does not yet make or sell a driverless car, so no, one did not kill anyone. That's like calling cruise control driverless, it's not.
> 
> I'm confused by your logic. You claim a self driving car killed a man and also that it will be 20 years before we have SDCs?
> 
> ...


That is the funniest video I'v seen in a long time. Do you think that thing is ready to navigate Storrow Drive during rush hour? Hahahahahahahaha. Cruising speed of about 10 mph. No seat belts that I could see. AND the biggest flaw is it doesn't open the door for the pax, the pax has to push a button. ONE STAR! Seriously you've got to be kidding if you believe they can go from that demonstration to actual use on real roads with multitudes of complex driving situations. Thanks for the laughs.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Rat said:


> Did I say Tesla sells a driverless car? If you paid attention, recently a Tesla prototype driverless car drove under a semi-trailer, killing the technition sitting in the drivers seat.


Yes, you said "driverless". The car that hit the truck was a privately owned car and the driver was the owner, not a technician, so yes, you implied there were both driverless cars for sale and no driverless cars for sale. I see now you were just confused on the facts of the incident.



Rat said:


> I'll watch your video, but I'm willing to bet there is some sort of human override in those vehicles in the Netherlands.


Nope. No monitoring or override. It's capable of override because they did while in testing, but they don't anymore.



Rat said:


> Regardless, Uber has never invested didlely in the fleet it has now. Buying and maintaining those cars would bankrupt Uber.


Cars that pay for themselves don't bankrupt a company. Chances are good that Uber will partner with manufacturers to provide the cars free with profit sharing just as GM is doing with Lyft. Regardless, over time Uber could buy 1,000,000 SDCs with credit without losing a dime and actually making much more than they do with your car.



Rat said:


> Think about it, they will need a million cars to replace the fleet they have now. Those cars will be vandalized faster than they can be repaired or replaced. All one has to do to total one out is merely step in front of it and it will drive off the road. Thinking SDCs will replace human driven cars is nieve.


I hear this all the time. I'm not sure why people think all of society will suddenly go rogue and risk imprisonment and massive costs. Sure, you could contrive to destroy a car, and then you you will be on video and prosecuted. Besides, it's called insurance.



Rat said:


> Watched the video. Predetermined route at a walking speed with no traffic. "On demand" is not someone standing on a predetermined route. That vehicle would take 2-3 hours to get me to work, assuming it could find my house. After dropping me off, no one else use going to get in it. If you video tape me while I am in it, I will sue you for invasion of privacy. You can't put cameras in a public toilet, er Uber.


Nope. That's a dated video on a closed campus. It is now in live traffic. Last I heard it was still on a predetermined route and still speed restricted, which means nothing, but not for long. That's a reflection of caution, not capability. It's a full SDC in live traffic in use, so, not 20 years, last May.

Most states don't require your permission to record you. You are recorded all day every day by security companies. Try and sue them. Those states that do require permission allow signs for notification. If you get on, you will be videoed, and if you damage the vehicle, you will be charged. Again, the assumption that people will just go rogue and throw their money away is silly.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Gung-Ho said:


> That is the funniest video I'v seen in a long time. Do you think that thing is ready to navigate Storrow Drive during rush hour? Hahahahahahahaha. Cruising speed of about 10 mph. No seat belts that I could see. AND the biggest flaw is it doesn't open the door for the pax, the pax has to push a button. ONE STAR! Seriously you've got to be kidding if you believe they can go from that demonstration to actual use on real roads with multitudes of complex driving situations. Thanks for the laughs.


It already IS on the roads. Starting last May. And yes, it is the very first SDC ever on live roads, so, of course, they are being cautious with speed and route. Did you really think they would just set it free at high speeds?

Your points are moot. SDCs are live. So, not 20 years, not 10, not 5... last May. From here they will just add capabilities.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

st: 1325200, member: 8845"]GMs entire business model is based upon SDC TNC and has been for some time now since dropping a billion on it with Lyft. Ford, Google, and Uber are already in bed. Uber also has a deal with Toyota. Apple is an investor in Didi. Almost every major auto and tech company in the world is already in on it.

Over a million Uber drivers and how many Lyft and Didi allow random strangers in their cars now? Taxis? They're called cameras and fees, look into them.

Google is partnering with Uber.

See above. Google isn't building a car, they are building a SDC platform to lease to manufacturers.

2 years. You meant 2 years, but you wrote 20. By the way, you're behind on the news, there are already SDCs in the Netherlands on the road in service, so, definitely off on your prediction.

Its called insurance. Cheap insurance because they will be so safe.
*oh so safe, your verbiage doesn't warrant a reply to this but I just wanted to anyways*

What if someone steals your car today? Stop making cars?
*No, but it's easier to steal a car without a person in it then a person in it. Using your logic, is a robber more likely to steal from a house that has someone in it then one without? Do they tend to steal during the broad daylight or during the night if they do decide to take a gamble and steal with folks inside? *

Awesome! Better than on the road driving. If they spill, they pay, just like now.
*uhhhh huh. Every inch captured on film? What if someone litters something sticky or disgusting in a blind spot? The next rider may not notice if they stuck to the front or, if they have a horrible sense of smell. Sometimes you may catch them to make them pay. But doubtful and it's more of a hassle because again this thread is based on folks loaning out their vehicle to make money to "pay" for the cost or "subsidize" the cost of a tesela <- there's a eye rolling emoji but just in case it doesn't show, this text is to say it was there *

You charge them for the new floor mats? Is this a trick question?
*again, how do you know who did it? What if there were multiple riders? The cameras (if the cars even have them, this is assuming some sort of dashcam in the car but those only get certain spaces and angle)*

Why would you assume they would be unsupervised or wouldn't be charged for any mess? Doesn't that seem silly?
*your question to my answer is silly. How many drivers here has had a hard time getting their cleaning fees reimbursed? Some stains can't be captured properly on camera and again, this is working on the basis that they'll 1) have cameras 2) have cameras that capture every angle to prove without a doubt it's them. Uhhh that pee stain? What do you mean? It was there when I got in. *

One fatality and none caused by the car. Besides, there are no self driving Teslas so not sure what you are refering to.

Like, last May? When the first ones went on the road live in the Netherlands? Or did you mean like 2 years in the US?

He just _happened _to make a wad of money on paypal and just _happened _to land a rocket on an autonomous barge and just _happened _to make electric sports and luxury cars a reality? Didn't amount to much?! Dude, at least read something. He's changing the space and electric car sectors single handedly.

And land rockets on autonomous barges at sea after delivering its payload. Changing the entire price structure of reliable space delivery. Getting money _and_ that? By the way, he used mostly his own money, but let's not bother with facts.

Modern planes are piloted for about 6 minutes a flight. Trains have an engineer because they are so relatively cheap, it's not an interest of the companies for the most part. Some are investing heavily, but it's mostly, meh. What will make people trust it? Its safety record. The real question is what would make people trust the 1.2M per year killing human drivers?

2-3 years. That's what we have before we start seeing SDCs regularly in the US.

2-3 years is a long way off? And that, only if you ignore they are already on the road in use in the Netherlands?

It's a fair point. GPS does suck at times. Of course, you just make it the paxs responsibility for a correct pin drop and the whole problem goes away.

BS like personal computers, the internet, phones you carry around, streaming videos, microwave ovens, video chat, car sized probes on Mars, and GPS? That far fetched nonsense?

Oh, and these investors about which you speak? Like Google, Apple, microsoft, NVidia, GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW...well...EVERY major tech and auto company in the world? They're all wrong and you're right? They're all lying to dump on their stockholders? OK.

Dude...stop...my sides!

They're called fees and arrests. It's not hard to figure out.

It's a good thing they don't drive by GPS then!

Project? Almost every major tech and auto company in the world is involved heavily in SDCs. GM alone has invested a billion dollars. Lord knows what Google has invested. This isn't a project, it's a revolution.


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## Gung-Ho (Jun 2, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> It already IS on the roads. Starting last May. And yes, it is the very first SDC ever on live roads, so, of course, they are being cautious with speed and route. Did you really think they would just set it free at high speeds?
> 
> Your points are moot. SDCs are live. So, not 20 years, not 10, not 5... last May. From here they will just add capabilities.


Yeah right. I can read articles too. It doesn't travel at night or during rush hour. No bad weather conditions. Mostly on bike paths. Top speed 25 kilometers per hour or 15 mph.. WOW! Being tested under ideal conditions. And that's THE NETHERLANDS. There are more bikes than cars there as it is. You have to be smoking crack if you think these things are going to running around in major cities or God forbid interstate highways in this country.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

http://elitedaily.com/envision/people-dont-want-self-driving-cars/1504689/

http://247wallst.com/autos/2016/05/...and-tesla-people-dont-want-self-driving-cars/


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

This entire argument is nothing but speculation and hence a pointless waste of time. If you think that autonomous vehicles are in the near future then invest your money in it rather than spending your time trying to convince others that you're right. And if you don't think they're in the near future then why do you care either way?

I personally can't wait to be able to take a nap on the way to work. I would love for driverless cars to be on the roads en masse tomorrow. But I don't think they will for a good decade or so, if that.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

sellkatsell44 said:


> st: 1325200, member: 8845"]
> Its called insurance. Cheap insurance because they will be so safe.
> *oh so safe, your verbiage doesn't warrant a reply to this but I just wanted to anyways*
> 
> ...


Why do people present problems that are so easily solved like they are roadblocks? The answer is a lot of cameras. Cameras are cheap. A rider rejects a car for cleanliness or damage, the car returns to the depot to be cleaned or repaired, recordings are reviewed and the pax is charged. What's complicated about that? Nothing.

Would I buy a car that pays for itself? Of course I would. It would be stupid not to.



Gung-Ho said:


> Yeah right. I can read articles too. It doesn't travel at night or during rush hour. No bad weather conditions. Mostly on bike paths. Top speed 25 kilometers per hour or 15 mph.. WOW! Being tested under ideal conditions. And that's THE NETHERLANDS. There are more bikes than cars there as it is. You have to be smoking crack if you think these things are going to running around in major cities or God forbid interstate highways in this country.


It's a self driving car. It drives itself, in traffic, no driver. Just because it's not the best bicycle in the shop doesn't make it *not a bicycle.*

It's not being tested, it's being operated.

The effort is accelerating, not falling behind predictions. Think what you will. The experts don't agree with your timeline.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

, post: 1329988, member: 8845"]Why do people present problems that are so easily solved like they are roadblocks? The answer is a lot of cameras. Cameras are cheap. A rider rejects a car for cleanliness or damage, the car returns to the depot to be cleaned or repaired, recordings are reviewed and the pax is charged. What's complicated about that? Nothing.

Would I buy a car that pays for itself? Of course I would. It would be stupid not to.

*You talk a lotta talk but I bet you've barely crawled.* *Do you have any real life experience when it comes to the quality of cameras? Worked in stores where there's multiple cameras? I believe there was a story about a police chef that was so frustrated with the lack of cameras (because of the slow crawl of bu·reauc·ra·cy) that she spent a couple thousand. Yeah, real cheap compared to what it would have cost going through the usual channels because she went through big box company.

Wanna try again? *

It's a self driving car. It drives itself, in traffic, no driver. Just because it's not the best bicycle in the shop doesn't make it *not a bicycle.*

It's not being tested, it's being operated.

The effort is accelerating, not falling behind predictions. Think what you will. The experts don't agree with your timeline.[/QUOTE]


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

sellkatsell44 said:


> *You talk a lotta talk but I bet you've barely crawled.* *Do you have any real life experience when it comes to the quality of cameras? Worked in stores where there's multiple cameras? I believe there was a story about a police chef that was so frustrated with the lack of cameras (because of the slow crawl of bu·reauc·ra·cy) that she spent a couple thousand. Yeah, real cheap compared to what it would have cost going through the usual channels because she went through big box company.
> 
> Wanna try again? *


How do you screw up clicking "reply" so badly? You just literally click reply and type. If you want to do multiple quotes and reply to them one by one, highlight that part of the post and click on the "quote" link that pops up under it. Repeat until done, go to bottom of page, and click "insert quotes". Then type your replies after each closing /Quote].

Sure, I'll try explaining it to you again. Yes, I know camera systems. I owned and operated a business with 22 trucks that designed and installed audio/video security systems for 15 years along with automation and telecommunications systems, primarily.

So, let me help you. The computer processing power of the SDC's onboard computers is massive. Somewhere in the area of 150 Macbooks. It can make trillions of observations and decisions a second. So dealing with, say, 10 cameras, is child's play. The cameras cost next to nothing. A few dollars each, maybe less than a dollar in bulk. Here's one retail, off the shelf, for less than $4 including shipping.

The system will need a camera interface or wireless network and flash drive, but again, these are cheap. Combined they can be had for less than $100 bulk. Probably much less. Technology is generally very cheap.

So yes, you can legally and fiscally install and record from more than enough angles to ensure passengers are regularly caught and forced to pay for any damage they cause. It's a simple problem with simple answers and in no way a roadblock, just as most naysayer claims about SDCs are.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

RamzFanz I deliberately quote that way because I've gotten lazy. If you look at my past replies you'd know I actually know how to do it correctly, but with you I just can't be bothered.

You may know the ins and outs of making cameras on the fly, and I have the figure mixed so I'll humbly say a few hundred and not thousands (this is the reference http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...r-Santa-Clara-County-Main-Jail-370886591.html)

So a few hundreds for a few cameras for a car. and those still doesn't take the best footage. You're seriously trying to sell me that cameras can be had for less then a hundred and offer quality good enough to squash any doubt that it was that particular rider and not the one before or after?


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

Haha ok if you guys want unsupervised strangers in your car, go for it! I don't.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

sellkatsell44 said:


> So a few hundreds for a few cameras for a car. and those still doesn't take the best footage. You're seriously trying to sell me that cameras can be had for less then a hundred and offer quality good enough to squash any doubt that it was that particular rider and not the one before or after?


Dude, just stop. I know _exactly _what I'm talking about.

You don't need hundred dollar security cameras for a _crystal clear_ and _high definition_ interior view. You need the ones for a couple of bucks each. A 10 camera system with night vision using the existing computer with a wireless network will run less than $100.

Problem solved. Next?


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## rembrandt (Jul 3, 2016)

Just don't make the taxpayers pay for your dreams, Elon. Look at Toyota , they don't live of government funds. They make great cars and keep quiet.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> Dude, just stop. I know _exactly _what I'm talking about.
> 
> You don't need hundred dollar security cameras for a _crystal clear_ and _high definition_ interior view. You need the ones for a couple of bucks each. A 10 camera system with night vision using the existing computer with a wireless network will run less than $100.
> 
> Problem solved. Next?


Okay _*Ma'am*_

Go and run a business where you help current uber drivers for less then _$100 bucks _get *crystal clear and high definition* complete *interior view *because I'm sure that they'd love to actually get their cleaning bills paid one way or another (either through uber or if that fails, small claims, because let's face it, how else differently would tesla combat this problem? Right, just let the owner deal with it because they are independent contractors -- heck, they just sold them a car and an idea, of using it as a ways to make $$ to help elevate the monthly car note).

So if it's something so easily done, currently it should be supported right _Ma'am_?


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## Chicago88 (Feb 7, 2016)

Uber will never last to see the SDC, many are guessing as to the time frame for a SDC to fully function so I'll guess 10+ years... Google appears to have the most tested data/technology and it's only 4 years old and no where close to ready - first of all it's currently illegal in most states. Uber is on a death March, less and less drivers while burning through more and more cash... Count the days.


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

PT Barnum was lucky.
He didn’t have to compete in the same era as Elon Musk for the title of “The Greatest Showman”.
Some of his predictions, promises and straight-up stunts seem like upmarket, higher-tech versions of the Uber publicity stunts we now know to be shams to lure the gullible.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Lowestformofwit said:


> PT Barnum was lucky.
> He didn't have to compete in the same era as Elon Musk for the title of "The Greatest Showman".
> Some of his predictions, promises and straight-up stunts seem like upmarket, higher-tech versions of the Uber publicity stunts we now know to be shams to lure the gullible.


There's a difference between someone like Travis who has visions of grandeur and Musk who is a visionary. The difference is that Musk accomplishes things that no one else has. That doesn't mean he won't have setbacks and complete failures. But it does mean that he delivers on his visions.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Lowestformofwit said:


> PT Barnum was lucky.
> He didn't have to compete in the same era as Elon Musk for the title of "The Greatest Showman".
> Some of his predictions, promises and straight-up stunts seem like upmarket, higher-tech versions of the Uber publicity stunts we now know to be shams to lure the gullible.


...and yet he has succeeded in doing many things people like you claimed were impossible.

Let me know where I can learn about PT Barnum landing rockets on autonomous barges.



Chicago88 said:


> Uber will never last to see the SDC, many are guessing as to the time frame for a SDC to fully function so I'll guess 10+ years... Google appears to have the most tested data/technology and it's only 4 years old and no where close to ready - first of all it's currently illegal in most states. Uber is on a death March, less and less drivers while burning through more and more cash... Count the days.


Uhhhh, wat?!

Waymo (Google) has fully functioning SDCs on the road already so you missed by more than 10 years. The first operational SDCs went live in May of 2016, so Waymo wasn't even the first. And no, they aren't 4 years old, they started in the 90's.

Illegal? Well, that's a fair question but it appears the feds will be trumping (pun intended) local laws and allowing SDCs nationwide this year. The first bill passed the house in Sept 2017 in bipartisan fashion. In fact, licensing test grounds are already being built. Many states are also already passing legalization legislation. Even if the feds don't mandate legalization, almost all states follow the feds in these issues.


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

RamzFanz said:


> ...and yet he has succeeded in doing many things people like you claimed were impossible.
> Let me know where I can learn about PT Barnum landing rockets on autonomous barges.


Proving what? A stunt is still a stunt.
Rather, Musk should perhaps address more relevant practical terrestrial issues , such as the unfulfilled promises/ customer expectations relating to the production and delivery of his cars.
_"....Elon Musk's penchant for making ambitious promises that routinely go unfulfilled, Tesla has a long and storied history of production delays that have impacted every single car they've ever released."_
https://www.google.com.au/amp/bgr.com/2018/02/22/tesla-delays-model-s-model-x-strong-demand/amp
But don't let that interfere with the glaze over your eyes.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

Lowestformofwit said:


> Proving what? A stunt is still a stunt.
> Rather, Musk should perhaps address more relevant practical terrestrial issues , such as the unfulfilled promises/ customer expectations relating to the production and delivery of his cars.
> _"....Elon Musk's penchant for making ambitious promises that routinely go unfulfilled, Tesla has a long and storied history of production delays that have impacted every single car they've ever released."_
> https://www.google.com.au/amp/bgr.com/2018/02/22/tesla-delays-model-s-model-x-strong-demand/amp
> But don't let that interfere with the glaze over your eyes.


Your link says, "Tesla just explained......blah, blah, blah," yet it contains no explanation, just speculation? Well, except for the HIGH DEMAND.


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## Lowestformofwit (Sep 2, 2016)

phillipzx3 said:


> Your link says, "Tesla just explained......blah, blah, blah," yet it contains no explanation, just speculation? Well, except for the HIGH DEMAND.


Sorry about that; I can't be responsible for the quality of journalism, only for my lack of content checking!
This one may contain more enlightening info on the delays:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/25/tesla-employees-say-gigafactory-problems-worse-than-known.html
From that link, and purely in terms of production processes only, it sounds like a classic case of "Fail to plan, plan to fail".
Might have been flat-footed by that "HIGH DEMAND" you mentioned.
Personally, I think his car concepts and detailed designs are brilliant, and I hope they come to revolutionise motoring as we know it.


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