# Lyft trying to throttle personal power zones before quarterly report



## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

I know these mother truckers are charging the passengers 3x and trying to have us drive at base rates.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

So start your own TNC. 

Not slamming you N, but I never understood how anyone,IC or employee thinks they should more money because of what the Company charges IT'S customers.


If they are charging more on certain rides they are using those revenues to subsidize the rides that they lose money on.

You know, the rides they send us on that they pay a bonus to pick up and you know Uber is losing money on.


Sometimes we look too much at individual rides instead of the Business as a whole.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

dauction said:


> So start your own TNC.
> 
> Not slamming you N, but I never understood how anyone,IC or employee thinks they should more money because of what the Company charges IT'S customers.
> 
> ...


It's my vehicle, when I signed up for Uber they took a set percentage of the fare. My car my investment, that's how most franchise operators operate. You give a percentage of the income to the mother company. When Uber or Lyft take as much as they can take from the ride and award you compensation paid in miles and minutes you're no longer an independent contractor. To earn more you have to perform like a circus animal chasing the little bonuses.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Paul Vincent said:


> It's my vehicle, when I signed up for Uber they took a set percentage of the fare. My car my investment, that's how most franchise operators operate. You give a percentage of the income to the mother company. When Uber or Lyft take as much as they can take from the ride and award you compensation paid in miles and minutes you're no longer an independent contractor. To earn more you have to perform like a circus animal chasing the little bonuses.


Then work elsewhere.. If you are not happy then move on because Uber isn't going to compensate you the way you think you should be compensated. They are trying to make the Corporate Investors happy ..just like ANY Capitalistic Corporation.

It isn't any difference working for any Company ..as an Employee or as a IC.

I understand that sometimes we vent because it's about the only thing we can do. If venting makes you happy and then you can proceed through the day that's fine..but if all venting does is make you even more miserable then it's probably time to find something else to do.

Got to run.. Sat/Sunday Morning are good in my Market..also love driving without all the traffic on the roads.


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

dauction said:


> So start your own TNC.
> 
> Not slamming you N, but I never understood how anyone,IC or employee thinks they should more money because of what the Company charges IT'S customers.
> 
> ...


They aren't Lyft's customers, they're my customers.

In the financials, the customer pays me and I pay Lyft their fee--even though that's not what really happens at all.

We are the small businesses, they are the brokers.



dauction said:


> Then work elsewhere.. If you are not happy then move on because Uber isn't going to compensate you the way you think you should be compensated. They are trying to make the Corporate Investors happy ..just like ANY Capitalistic Corporation.
> 
> It isn't any difference working for any Company ..as an Employee or as a IC.
> 
> ...


I don't think you understand exactly how much we have these companies' feet over the fire.

The law is on our side. We just have to fight for it.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

dauction said:


> Then work elsewhere.. If you are not happy then move on because Uber isn't going to compensate you the way you think you should be compensated.


The point is Uber has changed the pay structure repeatedly over the years. Absolutely correct, don't have to drive. Just like to point out that pyramid schemes are illegal.


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## Driving With A Purpose (Jul 28, 2020)

Paul Vincent said:


> The point is Uber has changed the pay structure repeatedly over the years. Absolutely correct, don't have to drive. Just like to point out that pyramid schemes are illegal.


What? How in the world can Uber be compared with a pyramid scheme? In a true pyramid scheme people recruit others to the business who pay fees upfront. If you recruit someone who recruits someone else, the person two levels below you can actually help your earnings and so on. Another thing about pyramid schemes is that they often don't have an actual product or service they are selling.

Uber has transportation services that they are selling to customers. You don't get a cut of the earnings for each person you recruit to Uber. They might offer a bonus if a new driver makes, say, 300 deliveries in their first 90 days. But that isn't a cut on every deal the person delivers.

Please dig a bit deeper before leveling a really unfair accusation (or a veiled accusation if you will) like that at Uber or anyone else for that matter on a public site.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

dauction said:


> So start your own TNC.
> 
> Not slamming you N, but I never understood how anyone,IC or employee thinks they should more money because of what the Company charges IT'S customers.
> 
> ...


I've never understood why people will drive for Lyft at base rates at the same time that Uber is offering better than base rates. Lyft, unlike Uber, does not provide any bonus pick up in my market. I recently saw a PPZ for $2.25 during a time period where Uber was offering a $5 bonus per ride and it was busy on Uber back to back.

All I can imagine is that Lyft must have a whole lot of deactivated Uber drivers on their rolls.

It's no sweat to me if Lyft doesn't want to pay me more, but they also shouldn't be surprised when I'm online on Uber most of the time instead. I do drive for Lyft, but usually only on the rare times they do a better promotion than Uber or when Uber runs no promotion at all.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I just had a passenger last night that was complaining the ride was $40 to literally go maybe a mile? Guess what? I had no power Zone whatsoever. I shut Lyft off after that. It's bullshit


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

dauction said:


> Not slamming you N, but I never understood how anyone,IC or employee thinks they should more money because of what the Company charges IT'S customers.


Normally there would be little reason to compare what a business charges and what that business pays its workers. However, the scenario with Uber/Lyft is slightly different because they claim that they act as the drivers' agents, charging a fee to the driver in exchange for sending the driver pax, billing etc. Heck, in Uber's driver agreement it says that the customer is the driver's customer, and that the business transaction is between the driver and the pax. But, as you point out, that is not reality. In reality, the customers are of Uberlyft.

When Uberlyft started, it did indeed only collect a pre-agreed percentage of the revenue from pax. Then they decided to alter the deal and started channelling more of pax revenue from drivers' pockets into their own.

All of the above are why this topic irks some drivers.

You would be 100% if UberLyft said, "These pax are our customers. We will charge them what we want and we will pay you what we want". That would be fair enough. However, they don't do this. That would blow their "we're just the drivers' agent" argument clean out of the water. It would be tantamount to Uberlyft accepting that it was a principal in the transactions. And they certainly don't want to do that, for many reasons. Just for a start, it would make their financials look a lot worse. Furthermore, being a principal would lend argument to those who say that Uberlyft is an employer, that the drivers are not IC and therefore Uberlyft should pay all the costs associated with having employees.

It is the fact that Uberlyft is trying to have its cake and eat it that annoys drivers. However, it is also correct the rideshare deal has moved on. The rideshare companies have realised that they can take more from drivers. If drivers don't like it then they can stop working for the companies. Unfortunately for Uberlyft, labour legislators don't subscribe to that premise, which is why Uberlyft is under fire in California, New York and Seattle, with more litigation from other areas sure to come.



dauction said:


> Then work elsewhere.. If you are not happy then move on


The "then work elsewhere" mantra is problematic because it ignores the question of whether or not the behaviour of the work provider is justified. For example, a company may decide to lower its wage to its employees to $5 per hour, citing your "If you don't like it, then move on" argument. In this case, your reasoning fails because there is a minimum wage law and paying $5 is not justified. The employer would be forced by the Labour Department to pay at least minimum wage, and would collect monies owed from the employer and pass them on to the aggrieved employees, along with a hefty fine given to the employer.

There will be other cases where the "then work elsewhere" argument is valid. For example, if the worker does not like their boss, or the working environment, or working times etc etc.

The argument goes much deeper than the over simplisitic "then work elsewhere" mantra. In order to see if it's valid, a much deeper and more sophisticated analysis is required.


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

You simply can't have a business model where you dictate drivers' rates, avoid your payroll tax burdens, avoid all legal and criminal liabilities from both pax and drivers, and have no financial oversight in regards to fares and tips.

It's a sham. It deserves to implode.



Daisey77 said:


> I just had a passenger last night that was complaining the ride was $40 to literally go maybe a mile? Guess what? I had no power Zone whatsoever. I shut Lyft off after that. It's bullshit


You should have canceled the ride and worked out a price with your pax. If the pax didn't have money, give them a ride for free. Fux everything about these companies trying to pull such a brazen act.

I literally send these ****ers support messages daily to burn in hell and send them pictures of me flipping them off. They are greedy ****ing scum.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

nosurgenodrive said:


> You simply can't have a business model where you dictate drivers' rates, avoid your payroll tax burdens, avoid all legal and criminal liabilities from both pax and drivers, and have no financial oversight in regards to fares and tips.
> 
> It's a sham. It deserves to implode.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of people don't realise what an IC actually is. Uberlyft have done so much whitewashing that they've convinced many people that their setup is true IC. Proof of the effectiveness of Uber's PR machine is that I see drivers on here who are _still_ repeating the previous nonsense Uber used to emit claiming that drivers are actually Uber's customers :smiles:roflmao:smiles: even though Uber abandoned that rhetoric long ago when they switched to the current drivers-are-IC claims.

A lot of drivers blindly accept UberLyft's claims that they are IC, not knowing that genuine IC means that the company does not have control over how the work is performed, nor does it mean having your "agent" dictate what you can charge your customers etc etc etc. Uber is well aware of this, which is why they, in an attempt to make drivers seem more like true IC, recently gave drivers in California the ability to set their own prices and to see trip destinations and trip values on the ping screen. And yet drivers in other states who did not get these IC-like changes still claim that they are IC. It's very strange.


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

On a side note, any design these companies have on creating a driverless fleet with such pricing can easily be undermined by a TNC that operates with TRUE independent contractor guidelines. Their driverless vehicles are going to cost a fortune. The app side is simple and matches drivers with pax. You could set reasonable base rates and eliminate surge and take these fuxing companies to the cleaners.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Prime Time still applies to the customers. It no longer applies to drivers.

Meanwhile, Uber Trolls, Uber Shills, Uber Boy Scouts, Lyft Camp Fire Girls and UberBOTs can pontificate from their high pedestals about how neither one is doing anything wrong and if you do not like it blah. blah, blah, blah. It is amazing how much these UberBOTs know about everyone's situation.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

Driving With A Purpose said:


> What? How in the world can Uber be compared with a pyramid scheme?


A bad choice of words, however in the beginning when Uber was recruiting as many drivers as they could Uber advertised you could make $90,000 a year driving with Uber. Many people bought a car specifically to drive with Uber and then the rates were lowered. Uber had partnered with financial companies 
with very high interest rates. Some people were paying $700 to 900 a month for $20,000 vehicle. Not a pyramid scheme but it left a lot of people in the lurch.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> The "then work elsewhere" mantra is problematic because it ignores the question of whether or not the behaviour of the work provider is justified. For example, a company may decide to lower its wage to its employees to $5 per hour, citing your "If you don't like it, then move on" argument. In this case, your reasoning fails because there is a minimum wage law and paying $5 is not justified. The employer would be forced by the Labour Department to pay at least minimum wage, and would collect monies owed from the employer and pass them on to the aggrieved employees, along with a hefty fine given to the employer.
> 
> There will be other cases where the "then work elsewhere" argument is valid. For example, if the worker does not like their boss, or the working environment, or working times etc etc.
> 
> The argument goes much deeper than the over simplisitic "then work elsewhere" mantra. In order to see if it's valid, a much deeper and more sophisticated analysis is required.


These laws take away the right of a worker to accept less than minimum wage for a job.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> These laws take away the right of a worker to accept less than minimum wage for a job.


That opens up another, different, discussion - whether the state has the right to restrict people's actions based on what the state considers is in people's best interests.

Take the Japanese puffer fish, for example. Its sale is banned in the US, due to the fact that certain organs of the animal are highly poisonous and incorrect preparation of the dish can easily lead to the untimely death of those dining on it.

There are those who believe that people should be able to accept however low a wage as they choose. Similarly, there are those who do not believe that sales of the Japanese puffer fish should be banned. They would say, "If you don't want to risk immediate death, then eat something else. Move on.". Then there are those who believe that people are dumb and need protecting from themselves.

Both sides have valid points. I personally think that, in general terms, people are indeed dumb and often need protecting from themselves. However, the nanny state should not be allowed to grow to such a size that it unreasonably limits personal freedoms in the name of protection.

Minimum wage = good. Ban on Japanese puffer fish = sensible. Other state restrictions are good, others are bad, others are ridiculous.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

nosurgenodrive said:


> I know these mother truckers are charging the passengers 3x and trying to have us drive at base rates.


Great!

It's your bad for not having a square card reader and not checking the rate on passenger app before take off.

40$ ride gives driver about 25$.

If you see a ride that should be 40$ going for 60$+, offer direct payment discount.

Take 45$ and cut off Lyft from profit.
Say no to 35$ Lyft 25$ driver
YES to driver 45$ Lyft 0

Uber/Lyft started out illegally with no insurance anyways.

They are going to pimp you if you don't have tools and guts to fight back.

Never rush, always check rider app for price check, be aware when Lyft charges more, use opportunities. Have rider cancel, pay 5$ fee, rest on Square reader. Give strong discounts.
These are mother truckers your dealing with.



dauction said:


> but I never understood how anyone,IC or employee thinks they should more money because of what the Company charges IT'S customers.


Passengers are the costumer of the Driver!

Read the TOS you signed. Lyft does not provide rides, it is a third party connecting a person needing a ride with someone willing to service that order.

This is what they say in TOS, S filing, and in court!

If the costumer is Lyft's, then Lyft can charge whatever it wants like Burger King!

Then they have to explain how the worker is not an employee If Lyft sets rates and the clients are purely lyfts not the drivers.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

dauction said:


> Sometimes we look too much at individual rides instead of the Business as a whole.


Do business owners look at the amount of debt you have accumulated or number of bills you have to pay each month before setting your wages? Newsflash: They don't care. So why should you worry about how much the company makes vs how much YOU should make? The rideshare companies paid $200 *million to fight Prop 22! That money should have gone to drivers. *


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## hpdriver (Jan 24, 2015)

To summarize every driver's pain points,

If Uber and Lyft are true third party service providers as they claim, they should tell me what fee are they charging me for each ride. That transparency is needed before I use their services.

By accepting surge payments from clients and taking a higher cut, they act as a taxi company that employs drivers at a fixed rate.

They can't have it both ways, which is why the California model for drivers setting surge and viewing trip duration/distance needs to go out nationwide.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> Great!
> 
> It's your bad for not having a square card reader and not checking the rate on passenger app before take off.
> 
> ...


Let's say I build homes
Hire you for the roof
I don't owe you: any percent of the total. I don't have to explain to you what I'm getting paid.
I can get rid of you if you hit on the customer or show up nude to do the roof. Fire you for not showing up

I do agree that they should not be able to fire you for declining rides
Even canceling


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

wallae said:


> Let's say I build homes
> Hire you for the roof
> I don't owe you: any percent of the total. I don't have to explain to you what I'm getting paid.
> I can get rid of you if you hit on the customer or show up nude to do the roof. Fire you for not showing up
> ...


Here's your flawed logic:

You hire someone to find you a roofer, not someone to roof your home.
Lyft finds you a driver. They are the BROKER not the SERVICE.

YOUR DRIVER IS THE SERVICE.

Lyft cannot take what they are presently taking and still be a broker. When they take anything more than 25% of the fare, they are a cab company and we are the employees.

In the financials, pax pays driver and driver pays lyft their broker's fees. What really is happening is that pax pays lyft and lyft pays driver. Driver has no oversight over financials or tips.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Here's your flawed logic:
> 
> You hire someone to find you a roofer, not someone to roof your home.
> Lyft finds you a driver. They are the BROKER not the SERVICE.
> ...


Cabs here are ic not employed
And its sucks
They split the meter. Pay gas, keep tips&#128514;
No tips during the week.

The only money they make is Friday and Saturday night when they're getting tips from the bars

They have to work five weekdays at eight bucks an hour approximately to get a cab on the weekends to make 35 an hour.

Because of discrimination laws they're required to take calls in the ghetto on Friday and Saturday night keeping them away from the bars and making crap. Once in, you don't get out.

They also get robbed and shot every day it seems.


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