# Pax try to cheat the surge pricing???



## JJuber

I know there some Pax cheat at the airport to request UberX
how about if Pax move the pin outside surge area and request pick up, after we accepted the ping, Rider call the driver and tell to pick up at area that still have surge, do we still get Surge pricing fare? because the Starting address is on outside Surge
Thanks


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## Sydney Uber

JJuber said:


> I know there some Pax cheat at the airport to request UberX
> how about if Pax move the pin outside surge area and request pick up, after we accepted the ping, Rider call the driver and tell to pick up at area that still have surge, do we still get Surge pricing fare? because the Starting address is on outside Surge
> Thanks


Yep that is right.


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## Ara

cancel trip send wrong address that's it.


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## Former Yellow Driver

Ara said:


> cancel trip send wrong address that's it.


Better to tell the customer that THEY need to cancel the trip and re-request with the CORRECT address. Then if you are closest to them....you'll get the fare at surge pricing. If not....it doesn't count against YOUR cancel percentage AND they learn a much needed lesson. Don't encourage these as*hats by just going to the correct address and driving them at non-surge pricing.


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## LookyLou

Yes. Don't pick up these fare cheats if it is obvious that they are trying to game the system. The surge is determined by the pax location, not the drivers.


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## LAuberX

Tell them to cancel and reorder, blame Über rules for needing accurate start address / insurance reasons blah blah blah


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## Ara

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Better to tell the customer that THEY need to cancel the trip and re-request with the CORRECT address. Then if you are closest to them....you'll get the fare at surge pricing. If not....it doesn't count against YOUR cancel percentage AND they learn a much needed lesson. Don't encourage these as*hats by just going to the correct address and driving them at non-surge pricing.


for $ driving far never ever and after driving far and rider ask too late and give you 1* and complain cancel trip is the best way and you haven't any problem that's it.


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## RippGutt

Yesterday I accepted a ping at surge 2.5x... I was about 3 minutes away(downtown traffic). I turn the corner onto the street the Pax is on. She cancels and re-requests me real quick at no surge. I didn't accept. Smart idea on her end, but I'm not stupid. As much as I like the various Pax's so far, it's a constant battle of who can outsmart the other.


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## mp775

Has anyone accepted such a request and asked for a fare review to get the surge?


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## Former Yellow Driver

mp775 said:


> Has anyone accepted such a request and asked for a fare review to get the surge?


Other than "You knew that there was NO surge pricing in effect when you accepted the (second) fare. Why would we pay you differently than what you agreed to?" ....what do you think Uber would say?


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## mp775

I meant for a pin that was deliberately placed outside a surge zone, but the ride started within the surge zone while the surge was still in effect.


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## RippGutt

mp775 said:


> I meant for a pin that was deliberately placed outside a surge zone, but the ride started within the surge zone while the surge was still in effect.


Although I see where you're coming from, but I feel you accept the ping based on what is listed in the app. If the ping comes in and it's no surge I feel it's the driver is not entitled to the surge pricing. I don't care if the pax is literally right next to me, but their pin is placed outside the surge area. If their Ping is showing no surge then I'm not accepting it, period.. it would be unfair to the pax for uber to adjust that particular fare from a regular fare rate that was agreed upon(driver accepting ping as is) to a surge price fare.

Uber's app should automstically locate the Pax location and try to keep it honest. I do see some potential issues with that, but it would help secure appropriate surge prices. Not fair that pax's can manipulate the system by placing their pins outside the surge area to save money eventhough they are not physically at that location.

In the meantime, we all have to be smart while on the road and not expect uber to lookout for us by being fair or keeping the pax honest.


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## DriverNotNamedCrash

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Better to tell the customer that THEY need to cancel the trip and re-request with the CORRECT address. Then if you are closest to them....you'll get the fare at surge pricing.


And a bad rating for being a pain in the ass (from their perspective). Best to cancel with wrong address and avoid this person altogether,


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## UberLuxbod

Pax not where they are supposed to be?

Wait for the phonecall.

Listen patiently and politely.

Cancel after making a note of the name and rating.

Enter details on my s&&t list.


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## Former Yellow Driver

DriverNotNamedCrash said:


> And a bad rating for being a pain in the ass (from their perspective). Best to cancel with wrong address and avoid this person altogether,


What bad rating?


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## JJuber

Uber respond :
*Yes if the client's location is indeed within the "surge zone" you will receive the higher surge rate for the trip. The client will agree to this higher rate when they request your trip*

now if this happen I just hope by the time we arrived the surge still there... lol


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## Former Yellow Driver

JJuber said:


> Uber respond :


Uber responded to what specific question?


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## JJuber

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Uber responded to what specific question?


If Pax by mistake or deliberately put the pin outside surge and call driver to pick up at the surge area


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## Former Yellow Driver

JJuber said:


> If Pax by mistake or deliberately put the pin outside surge and call driver to pick up at the surge area





JJuber said:


> *The client will agree to this higher rate when they request your trip*l


But the passenger did NOT agree to this "higher rate" when they requested the trip because their pick-up point was supposedly outside the surge area. If they didn't agree to it...how will they be charged for it?


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## RippGutt

Yea, I think whatever CSR responded is talking out of their butt. All the Pax has to do is contact Uber and I bet you they will side with the pax. At the end of the day the driver accepted the ping with no surge. Uber later going back to add surge fare without the Pax knowledge will be troublesome. I guess that will be Uber's problem to deal with.


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## jakob

Why would anyone ever accept a ping from a no surge are when in a surge area?


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## RippGutt

jakob said:


> Why would anyone ever accept a ping from a no surge are when in a surge area?


Exactly.. I've never done it.. Not even on accident and majority of my fares are surge fares.


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## Former Yellow Driver

jakob said:


> Why would anyone ever accept a ping from a no surge are when in a surge area?


It isn't where the driver is located it's where the passenger is located. If there aren't any fares being offered to the driver within the surge area....then s/he might decide instead of waiting to just take the next available ping ....which might come from outside the surge area.


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## Former Yellow Driver

RippGutt said:


> Exactly.. I've never done it.. Not even on accident and majority of my fares are surge fares.


You are either fortunate to be in a good market or smart. Possibly both.


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## uberdriver

RippGutt said:


> Yea, I think whatever CSR responded is talking out of their butt. All the Pax has to do is contact Uber and I bet you they will side with the pax. At the end of the day the driver accepted the ping with no surge. Uber later going back to add surge fare without the Pax knowledge will be troublesome. I guess that will be Uber's problem to deal with.


Exactly. The CSR that gave that answer was not even able to understand the real question. ******ed, like many of them (not all).

As stated above there are 2 big options to not just let the cheating customer get away with it. If you don't mind a possible hit to your rating, and assuming that the surge is still on when you get to the real location of the pax, ask them to cancel and re-request with the right address. Not only they will have to pay the surge that they were trying to fraudulently avoid paying, but they will also end up paying a $5 cancellation fee if more than 5 minutes had passed from the original request. If you don't want the rating hit (or they don't want to cancel), cancel them with explanation to Uber ("pax tried to commit fraud on Uber" is the suggested text) and go for the next pax. At least now you will be inside the surge area if it is still on.


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## RippGutt

Former Yellow Driver said:


> It isn't where the driver is located it's where the passenger is located. If there aren't any fares being offered to the driver within the surge area....then s/he might decide instead of waiting to just take the next available ping ....which might come from outside the surge area.


True.. But the red areas on the app map are large enough. It is possible to not get a single surge ping while driving in the red surge area, but it's worth waiting IMO. I do drive in a bigger city so if there is a surge and I'm in the area, I almost always(98% of the time)get several surge pings to the point where I wouldn't risk accepting a non surge ping in a surge area. But again, it depends on your city. Sorry, I have to keep reminding myself that our experiences depend on our locations


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## haji

cancel the trip


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## JJuber

Now when i'm In downtown I just pass the ping if the pick up 10 min or more, with driver in every corner i think is impossible in downtown Dallas to have more than 10 min pick up a rider
and sometime after we accept the ping, the navigation ETA will show more than estimate show on ping


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## Former Yellow Driver

@JJuber what happened when you wrote back to the CSR and told her/him that their explanation was not comprehensive/applicable?


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## JJuber

Former Yellow Driver said:


> @JJuber what happened when you wrote back to the CSR and told her/him that their explanation was not comprehensive/applicable?


Nothing yet


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## JJuber

RippGutt said:


> True.. But the red areas on the app map are large enough. It is possible to not get a single surge ping while driving in the red surge area, but it's worth waiting IMO. I do drive in a bigger city so if there is a surge and I'm in the area, I almost always(98% of the time)get several surge pings to the point where I wouldn't risk accepting a non surge ping in a surge area. But again, it depends on your city. Sorry, I have to keep reminding myself that our experiences depend on our locations


in dallas maybe the surge only 2-3 miles radius if there any


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## Tommyo

can you blame them?


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## Elmoooy

Wow..
Id just drive to the pax "so called address" and press arrived and wait 6 minutes and then press no show - **** the passengers charge them 5 bucks


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## mp775

You have to wait ten minutes to be paid a cancellation fee. In the meantime, you miss out on other surge fares *and* get to have the cancellation fee reversed when the rider complains to Uber that you didn't make the effort to find them.


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## Elmoooy

Its not ten minutes, its 5. FYI. Ive been paid four times. two in past week. These idiots


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## Elmoooy

Also I had a cancelled fare where the pax told Uber to go ahead bill him for estimate, So I made 18 bucks just driving to the location and find out that the pax already had gotten a ride. I was pissed off but the pax texted me and said to bill him anyways, to my surprise when I submitted photos to uber, they backed me up and gave me the fare. It was so sweet!


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## timmyolo

run the trip, you are there anyway, then give them a one star. when u drop them, and when
Löser (I meant Über, sorry) contacts you, explain situation. Über is supposed to deactivate that customers account,
in the least, they walk away with a much lower rating. That way, others will be able to be wary of these connivers.

as always, Über on...
or not


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## KrisThuy

Elmoooy said:


> Wow..
> Id just drive to the pax "so called address" and press arrived and wait 6 minutes and then press no show - **** the passengers charge them 5 bucks


this ^^^
to add u need to make a call b4 cancelling
call them and tell them your coming then cancel after 6mins lol


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## KrisThuy

timmyolo said:


> run the trip, you are there anyway, then give them a one star. when u drop them, and when
> Löser (I meant Über, sorry) contacts you, explain situation. Über is supposed to deactivate that customers account,
> in the least, they walk away with a much lower rating. That way, others will be able to be wary of these connivers.
> 
> as always, Über on...
> or not


youll get 1star too :/


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## UberMalibu

RippGutt said:


> Uber's app should automstically locate the Pax location and try to keep it honest. I do see some potential issues with that, but it would help secure appropriate surge prices. Not fair that pax's can manipulate the system by placing their pins outside the surge area to save money eventhough they are not physically at that location.
> 
> In the meantime, we all have to be smart while on the road and not expect uber to lookout for us by being fair or keeping the pax honest.


Good idea in theory, but what about people requesting rides for others? I've had 2 in the past 48 hours. Just last night I picked up "henry". Two girls came to my car. He text me a min into the trip confirming two girls were to be picked up.

As for working the system, I would just cancel with wrong address. I'm en route, I don't have time to be checking my texts or taking down your correct address. Were too distracted with all the technology in our cars as it is.


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## RippGutt

UberMalibu said:


> Good idea in theory, but what about people requesting rides for others? I've had 2 in the past 48 hours. Just last night I picked up "henry". Two girls came to my car. He text me a min into the trip confirming two girls were to be picked up.
> 
> As for working the system, I would just cancel with wrong address. I'm en route, I don't have time to be checking my texts or taking down your correct address. Were too distracted with all the technology in our cars as it is.


I agree, which is why I included that I do see some potential issues with that. The other issue that another driver on this forum had brought up was he had given a female a ride being paid for by a guy. The pax later told uber he didn't ride so he shouldn't have to pay. Uber agreed with him without talking to the driver. I'm not sure the ending to that story, but I do know the driver has been going back-and-forth with Uber via email.

Maybe Uber can adjust the app on the passenger side where the passenger Has to select whether or not they are taking the trip or if the ride is for someone else. That way it ensures that the driver is aware of the situation and would not be able to later argue that they shouldn't have to pay because they werent the passenger that took the trip. 
I also think the driver should be notified on the driver app if the passenger will be taking a trip or not as well. That way when John request the trip we won't be surprise when Samantha is the only one in the car. What do you guys think?


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## UberMalibu

There are definitely some kinks to work out. It would be nice if there were extra options such as how how many riders, name of person being picked up, etc. as you say.


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## RippGutt

UberMalibu said:


> There are definitely some kinks to work out. It would be nice if there were extra options such as how how many riders, name of person being picked up, etc. as you say.


I've also liked the number of riders idea. I think Uber's point is to make riders have to do little work as possible. For example, a drunk person is less likely going to enter their name, number of riders, type in the surge amount, address location destination, etc. I agree that it might be asking too much. At least from uber standpoint. Asking the silver passenger to do that might be borderline, but asking an intoxicated passenger to do that, forget about it. Lol


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## Optimus Uber

JJuber said:


> I know there some Pax cheat at the airport to request UberX
> how about if Pax move the pin outside surge area and request pick up, after we accepted the ping, Rider call the driver and tell to pick up at area that still have surge, do we still get Surge pricing fare? because the Starting address is on outside Surge
> Thanks


Had a 2.0x in Palisades this morning, waited over 10 minutes for her. Cancelled her as no show. Within 2 minutes she was calling me to come pick her up. I was the only one out there. I ignored her phone call as I already cancelled as no show. She tried pinging me again, but I wasn't picking her up for a straight fare after I had her at 2.0x. I think she was waiting for me to cancel so she could go back in and get the car for straight time. In either case I turned my terminal off and went back to Santa Monica. Let her wait for another car. At the time I was the only one out in Santa Monica this morning. The rest may have had riders already. There was nothing in Palisades, Malibu, Santa Monica for her to draw from. The closest cars for her was marina and UCLA area.

Uber didn't give me the cancellation fee, as they said it was her first cancellation. I responded with, my contract is to pick up and transport from A to B. My contract states, that no show means I get $5. But since they are willing to change the rules, then I want $10 for the cancellation as it was a 2.0x that she no showed for. I told them, if they don't want to charge her, that is their perrogative, but according to my contract, I get a cancellation fee. I don't care where it comes from, but you need to credit my account with $5 because I am entitled to it. It's not my issue, if their customer doesn't have the ability to get into a car on time. Especially, since the app notifies her when I arrive and I send her a courtesy text that I am here out front with my lights flashing. I was the only car on the street, if she was actually outside, she couldn't have missed me.

Waiting on a response from Uber about my $5.


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## Elmoooy

KrisThuy said:


> this ^^^
> to add u need to make a call b4 cancelling
> call them and tell them your coming then cancel after 6mins lol


of course, I always text my passenger as soon as i press arrive then at 3 min mark i inform them that i am parking at x, then at 5 min mark I ask where they are, if they dont reply to any of these text i will cancel at 6 min mark.


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## Former Yellow Driver

Anyone have a link or direct quote that says you NEED to make any calls to get paid on a "No Show"?


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## Optimus Uber

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Anyone have a link or direct quote that says you NEED to make any calls to get paid on a "No Show"?


From what I understand the uber app does it once you push the arrived button. That is all that is required as far as I know.


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## KrisThuy

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Anyone have a link or direct quote that says you NEED to make any calls to get paid on a "No Show"?


i dont have but i been trying stuff like
wait 6mins "no show" no pay 
so i tried wait 5mins by 6mins im gone a block away "call where the pass" then if she or he said his outside i say im coming, then "cancel no show"
heck he made me wait that long


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## Optimus Uber

KrisThuy said:


> i dont have but i been trying stuff like
> wait 6mins "no show" no pay
> so i tried wait 5mins by 6mins im gone a block away "call where the pass" then if she or he said his outside i say im coming, then "cancel no show"
> heck he maid me wait that long


Removed, sorry, it's one of the holes in Uber that I don't wan't fixed.


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## Former Yellow Driver

Optimus Uber said:


> From what I understand the uber app does it once you push the arrived button. That is all that is required as far as I know.


As far as I know also. I am curious though where this phone call step came from.


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## Optimus Uber

Former Yellow Driver said:


> As far as I know also. I am curious though where this phone call step came from.


Just like they don't pay for the first no show or cancellation, it's just hearsay. There is no rule. The only rule I have, if you want 5 stars from me, you better be outside on the corner waiting for me with your arms waving me down.


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## mp775

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Anyone have a link or direct quote that says you NEED to make any calls to get paid on a "No Show"?


How about anecdotal evidence? I had a cancellation fee reversed with the explanation "Cancellation fee refund; Did not communicate with client." Of course, I had been on the phone with her for ten-plus minutes trying to explain that I was on the other side of the closed gate that separated her location from the rest of the world...


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## RippGutt

Optimus Uber said:


> Had a 2.0x in Palisades this morning, waited over 10 minutes for her. Cancelled her as no show. Within 2 minutes she was calling me to come pick her up. I was the only one out there. I ignored her phone call as I already cancelled as no show. She tried pinging me again, but I wasn't picking her up for a straight fare after I had her at 2.0x. I think she was waiting for me to cancel so she could go back in and get the car for straight time. In either case I turned my terminal off and went back to Santa Monica. Let her wait for another car. At the time I was the only one out in Santa Monica this morning. The rest may have had riders already. There was nothing in Palisades, Malibu, Santa Monica for her to draw from. The closest cars for her was marina and UCLA area.
> 
> Uber didn't give me the cancellation fee, as they said it was her first cancellation. I responded with, my contract is to pick up and transport from A to B. My contract states, that no show means I get $5. But since they are willing to change the rules, then I want $10 for the cancellation as it was a 2.0x that she no showed for. I told them, if they don't want to charge her, that is their perrogative, but according to my contract, I get a cancellation fee. I don't care where it comes from, but you need to credit my account with $5 because I am entitled to it. It's not my issue, if their customer doesn't have the ability to get into a car on time. Especially, since the app notifies her when I arrive and I send her a courtesy text that I am here out front with my lights flashing. I was the only car on the street, if she was actually outside, she couldn't have missed me.
> 
> Waiting on a response from Uber about my $5.


Good response! Please keep us updated on what happens.


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## Former Yellow Driver

mp775 said:


> How about anecdotal evidence? I had a cancellation fee reversed with the explanation "Cancellation fee refund; Did not communicate with client." Of course, I had been on the phone with her for ten-plus minutes trying to explain that I was on the other side of the closed gate that separated her location from the rest of the world...


Not good enough. Many of us have gotten cancellation fees without calling the customers AND Uber's "official" policy doesn't require Drivers to call the customer.

*When are cancellation fees paid?*
In order for a cancellation fee to be paid, at least 5 minutes must pass between the time the ride was requested and the trip was cancelled. Cancellations are always paid automatically based off the same rules. All riders are given 1 free cancellation. If it is the rider's first cancellation no fee is paid to the Uber partner.

Cancellations are paid if:

-5 minutes have passed from the time the ride was accepted.
-The current ETA is not 5 minutes longer than the original predicted ETA. Meaning the partner is not late.
-The driver has selected "Arriving Now" but the client has left the trip request area.

Cancellations are NOT paid if:

-Less than 5 minutes have passed from the time the ride was accepted.
-You are 5 minutes late based on original ETA AND the rider cancels before you arrive. (Current ETA - Original ETA > 5 Min partner is late)

Under no circumstances will a cancellation fee be paid if the cancellation happens before 5 minutes have passed between the request time and time of cancellation.

If you are unable to reach the rider once you've arrived, you may cancel the ride. However, please know that the rules above still apply in order for a cancelation fee to be paid.

Click here for more info http://t.uber.com/cancellationpolicy


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## mp775

Former Yellow Driver said:


> Not good enough. Many of us have gotten cancellation fees without calling the customers AND Uber's "official" policy doesn't require Drivers to call the customer.


I've also been paid cancellation fees without any contact, but clearly if the rider protests and claims you didn't call then it may be grounds for reversing the cancellation fee.


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## Former Yellow Driver

mp775 said:


> I've also been paid cancellation fees without any contact, but clearly if the rider protests and claims you didn't call then it may be grounds for reversing the cancellation fee.


Uber doesn't need any grounds to reverse any fees. They do it all the time without checking with drivers. However....if you can quote their policy to them and stay persistent they will often reimburse those fees. Their policy is that the driver does NOT need to call the customer.


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## Optimus Uber

Just a quick follow up. Uber gave me the $5.


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