# Lets debate actual cost of driving? Sticky Thread



## evboy (Nov 12, 2014)

I want to start a thread on what it actually cost to drive uber. I would like feedback from everyone and lets get a rundown. I will base it on 30k uber miles a year. What you drive on your personal doesnt count.
Oil changes every 5000 miles. 6 x 15= 90.00
Tires should last at least 30k so we will say 1 set per year. 4 x 70= 280
Depreciation. we will use 5 year old car.everyone agrees buying new
is a money losing proposition, so this thread will be for new drivers
that want real facts. sales tax, high registration fees and depreciation
make new cars a no buy.
2010 corolla 60k miles kbb ppv good: 9500
2007 corolla 150k miles kbb ppv good 4725
lets say 4500 depreciation since the 2010 will be worth a little more in 3 years
since it is a newer model. thats 1500 a year. 1500.00
Gas. 27 miles gallon/30k x 3.25....prius 45mpg 3620.00...2175.00 
Lets total up a year of these expenses: 5500.00.
5500/12 460 per month min.

Now w/o everyone yelling and flaming, lets all debate what we should add per month to that cost to know what to subtract from your pay statement to know what we really made that month.we can send all newbies to this thread when real costs are asked about. bear in mind, this is the bare minimum you have to deduct to drive Uber. I dont count insurance since u need it anyway. if u have to carry commercial, then adjust difference in costs between personal and commercial.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Such a cost analysis by itself is of little use. The main objective of being a driver is to maximize profit. The cost side of it is only one part of the profit = revenue - costs equation. Revenue must also be taken into account.

Costs are not so region-specific, with the exception of gasoline, but revenue varies so wildly according to market that it is impossible to come up with a general guide or prediction of profit which will be applicable to multiple markets.

Finally, this is a business in which costs are almost all variable or semi-variable. Stating depreciation and gas costs based on a fixed figure of 30,000 miles or any other will only be of use to those who do exactly 30,000 miles, and that in a car that is directly comparable to the one used in the estimate. 

So, all in all, there is not a lot of point in trying to come up with a one size fits all guide, especially not one based on fixed costs. 

What you're trying to do falls under the category of financial modeling, which is outside the scope of forum posts.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

Everyone's actual cost of driving is going to vary, greatly vary! There's no one template for all drivers forget the car, how many miles driven, and age of car, everyone drives differently. 

Some people drive more efficiently than others which gives them better MPG which results in lower fuel costs. 
Some people perform maintenance more regularly than others. I for instance have my tires rotated every 3,000 miles and balanced at 6,000 miles which extends the life of the tire. 
Some also have maintenance covered for a period of time Toyota owners up to 2-years/24,000 miles and BMW owners up to 6-years. 

Just with those few examples your actual cost of driving isn't going to apply to others.


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## Oc_DriverX (Apr 29, 2014)

evboy said:


> I want to start a thread on what it actually cost to drive uber. I would like feedback from everyone and lets get a rundown. I will base it on 30k uber miles a year. What you drive on your personal doesnt count.
> Oil changes every 5000 miles.  6 x 15= 90.00
> Tires should last at least 30k so we will say 1 set per year. 4 x 70= 280
> Depreciation. we will use 5 year old car.everyone agrees buying new
> ...


Wouldn't it save everyone a lot of time if they just searched the numerous threads on this exact topic?


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

It is measurable but you have to break it down per mile, problem is it can fluctuate(gas prices changing, etc.) 

This is the reason most people use the federal allowance of .575 when calculating costs because it takes into gas, maintenance, insurance, etc. It is also a good starting point to even begin to understand if you can make a profit at all and taxes you will be responsible for.


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## DrJeecheroo (Feb 12, 2015)

No matter how you crunch the numbers, if you're driving in a city at .75/mile, you're going to make less then minimum wage.


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## limepro (Mar 7, 2015)

DrJeecheroo said:


> No matter how you crunch the numbers, if you're driving in a city at .75/mile, you're going to make less then minimum wage.


Most definitely, I won't even argue that.


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## naplestom75 (May 3, 2015)

The cost side of it is only one part of the profit = revenue - costs equation. Revenue must also be taken into account.

Costs are not so region-specific, with the exception of gasoline, but revenue varies so wildly according to market that it is impossible to come up with a general guide or prediction of profit which will be applicable to multiple markets.

Finally, this is a business in which costs are almost all variable or semi-variable. Stating depreciation and gas costs based on a fixed figure of 30,000 miles or any other will only be of use to those who do exactly 30,000 miles, and that in a car that is directly comparable to the one used in the estimate.

So, all in all, there is not a lot of point in trying to come up with a one size fits all guide, especially not one based on fixed costs.

What you're trying to do falls under the category of financial modeling, which is outside the scope of forum posts.[/QUOTE]


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## naplestom75 (May 3, 2015)

Exactly. The uber revenues are too variable to go with the costs.


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## dmiller227 (Jan 25, 2015)

Here's my very, very, very simple calculations:

Miami rates: .95c a mile. 
Uber cut: 20%
Amount the government allows for vehicle expenses: .575c per mile

.95 x 80%= .76
.76 - .575= .185

So, we are driving for a "profit" of .18 cents a mile.


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## Bemmice (May 29, 2015)

I started driving uber part time about 3 months ago at the current rate of .95 cents a mile it's time to stop. The driver provides everything, all uber does is distribute the request. You can only make money when it surge 2x or more. I have read and saw YouTube videos online where fools want to offer water, candy, phone chargers?? for uber X the cheapest service. Stupid. I drive you to your destination when you get there buy what you need. These ****s want 5 star service from a drive thru..


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## uberdriver (Aug 4, 2014)

dmiller227 said:


> Here's my very, very, very simple calculations:
> 
> Miami rates: .95c a mile.
> Uber cut: 20%
> ...


Profit of 18 cents a mile ? Not really, unless you:

a)Always get the first ping while you are at home
b) Always have the last passenger of the day needing to be dropped at the house next door to yours
c) Always receive the next ping while still being at the same point in which you dropped the last passenger
d) Always the next passenger is standing at the same point where you dropped the last passenger

Or to put it another way:

a) Generally there are "dead" miles when you start and until you get the first ping
b) For most drivers there is some distance from the point where they are when they go offline at the end of the shift and their home
c) Many times there are "dead" miles when your destination point is not a good place to get another ping and you drive "back to base".
d) It would be a miracle if you always had zero distance between the location where you are when you get the ping, and the passenger pickup point.

A reasonable metric for many drivers is to have no more than one dead mile for each paid (fare) mile. So in that case the correct computation for Miami would be:

For each mile that you are on a fare, you get paid 76 cents. And you drive around 2 miles total. If the cost of running your car is 57.5 cents per mile, your revenue is 76 cents and your cost is $1.15 (57.5 x 2). So you lose 39 cents for each fare mile that you drive. In reality you may be losing a little less than 39 cents per mile because you also get paid for time and you may be lucky and get some surge fares. Or if you drive a Prius, your gas cost is lower.

But the bottom line is the same: Driving for a fare of 95 cents per mile is akin to committing financial suicide.


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## dmiller227 (Jan 25, 2015)

uberdriver said:


> Profit of 18 cents a mile ? Not really, unless you:
> 
> a)Always get the first ping while you are at home
> b) Always have the last passenger of the day needing to be dropped at the house next door to yours
> ...


You're absolutely right. I forgot about dead miles. Like when I would drive 4 miles to pick up someone and they were only going 3 miles to a destination. I just lost money on that one. I knew there was a reason I stopped driving 3 weeks ago!


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## Driver1 (May 8, 2015)

its like i sold my 4000 miles to less than $2000 before gas and food breaks and 40hr/week driving, thank god I never got into an accident. or else its negative profit for all the hardwork.
4000mi : $1500 = No Profit
insurance and depreciation alone cannot justify a 4000 miles to $1500 ratio


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## naplestom75 (May 3, 2015)

Except it isn't hard work. Keep that in mind. That's the only reason I continue to log on from time to time


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

dmiller227 said:


> Here's my very, very, very simple calculations:
> 
> Miami rates: .95c a mile.
> Uber cut: 20%
> ...


The typical UberX is driving 1:1 miles. That is 1 paid for 1 unpaid mile. So the correction to your analysis is simple.

.95 x 80% = .76
.76 / 2 = .38
.38 - .575 = -.195 Everyone driving at 95¢/mile is subsidizing Uber's $billions at the rate of 20¢/mile. If you don't understand this comment, ask, please. 

Now let's look at breakeven:

.76 + .195 = 0.955
0.955 * 1.25 (accounts for Uber's 20%) = $1.194/mile breakeven gross fare.

To make a profit, your base fare should be MORE than $1.19/mile. Since my goal is profit, I won't drive for less than $2/mile because we all know the car doesn't just drive 100% of the time.

Anyone who believe Uber doesn't KNOW this is simply foolish. Uber knows what it costs to operate an automobile. They are preying on those too gullible who just see the cash flow of .95/mile less gas and THINK that's what they made.

I know, the Uber cheerleaders in here will say they can drive for 5¢ to 10¢ per mile and the 57.5¢ is too fat. My reply? BS! Uber should be PAYING you based on 57.5¢ plain and simple!


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## ecmic (Apr 16, 2015)

J. D. said:


> The typical UberX is driving 1:1 miles. That is 1 paid for 1 unpaid mile. So the correction to your analysis is simple.
> 
> .95 x 80% = .76
> .76 / 2 = .38
> ...


The real question is, what does the IRS allow this guy to deduct per mile on his teleportation machine? And what charity does he donate his base fair to?


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

ecmic said:


> The real question is, what does the IRS allow this guy to deduct per mile on his teleportation machine? And what charity does he donate his base fair to?


I don't know. Maybe the "March of Nickels or pennies or whatever that coin is".


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## good4life (Oct 4, 2014)

Given that Uber's 20% is deductible on taxes as an *additional* expense to the mileage rate of $.57.5/mile, why wouldn't you use gross revenue as your basis (total fare minus SRF)? For some reason it doesn't look consistent. I mean, your actual costs are probably $.20/mile cheaper than the allowed tax deduction, yet, the higher expense amount is used. At the same time the revenue reported to IRS is GROSS revenue, yet is not used. It just doesn't seem consistent.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Per year 

100K gross receipts UBER'S cut = 28k average rate : 1 dollar per mile 

Buy your own insurance & permits = 7K average rate: 3 dollar per mile


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

evboy said:


> I want to start a thread on what it actually cost to drive uber. I would like feedback from everyone and lets get a rundown..


so you waited until May 2015 to come up with what you thought was a unique topic?
this issue has been beaten into the ground,worse than beating a dead horse

lil mad you said "sticky thread" too


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

Jeneane Desilets said:


> This is not spam! Im doing research for a project that involves creating a better relationship with its users and drivers.
> ...
> Uber is a contractor meaning that they are solely responsible for creating the app and connecting drivers (third party sites) to riders trough their technology. This also means that they are not liable for any issues that take place during the ride. Does knowing this change your opinion being an Uber driver or rider?


LOL You may want to contact Google. By the time 'your design' is complete, Google will have bought Uber and may be calling it GUber.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

naplestom75 said:


> Except it isn't hard work. Keep that in mind. That's the only reason I continue to log on from time to time


"I know I'm losing money with every mile I drive, but I make up for it in volume."

Sheesh.

Travis loves you.


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## Lidman (Nov 13, 2014)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> "I know I'm losing money with every mile I drive, but I make up for it in volume."
> 
> Sheesh.
> 
> Travis loves you.


That 'quoted" comment should be bumped to the "how to spot the uber shills";


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

good4life said:


> Given that Uber's 20% is deductible on taxes as an *additional* expense to the mileage rate of $.57.5/mile, why wouldn't you use gross revenue as your basis (total fare minus SRF)? For some reason it doesn't look consistent. I mean, your actual costs are probably $.20/mile cheaper than the allowed tax deduction, yet, the higher expense amount is used. At the same time the revenue reported to IRS is GROSS revenue, yet is not used. It just doesn't seem consistent.


This is confusing the issue. BTW, the SRF is an additional deduction also. My actual cost were more than the IRS allowance. Insurance is the biggest factor most UberX drivers ignore. They just risk it and then don't include that risk factor in the equation.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> "I know I'm losing money with every mile I drive, but I make up for it in volume."
> 
> Sheesh.
> 
> Travis loves you.


Hey, some people actually believe Uber's "make it up in volume" crap. You're bursting their bubble!


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## naplestom75 (May 3, 2015)

Taxi Driver in Arizona said:


> "I know I'm losing money with every mile but I make up for it in volume."
> 
> Sheesh.
> 
> Travis loves you.


I think alot of you confuse "not making any money" with not making alot of money. I was just saying, the way it is, i don't go out of my way to drive but if the opportunity cost is low enough, I'll still do it to pass the time and make a few bucks. Im just sitting in a car


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

Some people are making some money. However, I'm betting the vast majority of drivers are losing money while making Uber some money.


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## J. D. (May 13, 2015)

naplestom75 said:


> I think alot of you confuse "not making any money" with not making alot of money. I was just saying, the way it is, i don't go out of my way to drive but if the opportunity cost is low enough, I'll still do it to pass the time and make a few bucks. Im just sitting in a car


I doubt the one's stating "make no money" have it confused. Most I've seen have a good grasp of the financial calculations. On the other hand, most of those who think they are making some money really don't understand the real numbers. So far, I've found a very rare few that actually make money.


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## UberRidiculous (May 19, 2015)

J. D. said:


> I doubt the one's stating "make no money" have it confused. Most I've seen have a good grasp of the financial calculations. On the other hand, most of those who think they are making some money really don't understand the real numbers. So far, I've found a very rare few that actually make money.


Right bcuz I just read in another thread a driver called waiting for a pax at .16cents/minute 'pure profit'. Which is a $9.60/hr fare minus 20% is $7.68/hr pure profit. When drivers see more value in NOT driving.... THAT tells the whole story.


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