# New California Data on Ride Services Reveal Rise in Collisions and Incidents



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/11/16...fer-a-tiny-glimpse-of-data-from-uber-and-lyft*


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

This is the Data that Uber had refused to submit to the CPUC:

*(Updated) Uber Fined $7.3 Million by California PUC for Failing to File Required Data*


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*CPUC Report based on the Data:
https://www.scribd.com/document_downloads/289290946?extension=pdf&from=embed&source=embed*

*





















































*


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

Too many wannabe Taxi drivers out on the roads. With these rates, no real Taxi driver worth his salt would drive anyone around.
Soon you will have senior citizens doing uber, oh wait, you already have those, and nothing against senior citizens.


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## UberComic (Apr 17, 2014)

The quality of the drivers and cars has diminished with the pay. 

The over abundance of money losing short trips has taken its toll by burning out drivers. Uber created this environment where it's OK to make a driver travel 15 minutes just to drive someone to the corner store. 

Cities do need to step up their game on bike sharing to the point that it's damn near free. Monthly fees deter those who are just visiting. Santa Monica, which is a huge area for Uber, just began bike sharing.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

How does TravisK's claim of Uber_SF alone doing $500 Million in Gross Revenue in 2014 jive with $1.6 Billion in Gross Revenue for ALL TNCs (Uber, Lyft, Sidecar, Summon, Wingz & Shuddle) from 9/1/13 - 8/31/15 for the whole State of California??
*Uber's raking in money in SF, but the story is complicated*
_"This story has been updated to include Uber's confirmation that $500 million is its gross yearly revenue in SF"_


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

Most this info is already common knowledge. Incident reports doesnt seem surprising. Novice drivers picking up and dropping off pax would increase incidents. Despite the incidents the public still wants its Uber. That I can guarantee.

Further regulations are going to insist on driver safety courses, which is a good requirement.


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

JaredJ said:


> Most this info is already common knowledge. Incident reports doesnt seem surprising. Novice drivers picking up and dropping off pax would increase incidents. Despite the incidents the public still wants its Uber. That I can guarantee.
> 
> Further regulations are going to insist on driver safety courses, which is a good requirement.


Uber has become like a drug to many pax, please don't take away my uber, you know that guy gal that comes to pick my ass up from anywhere for a dirt cheap price, lol.


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

ORT said:


> Uber has become like a drug to many pax, please don't take away my uber, lol.


Cabs are done in LA once LAX pickups are allowed with X. That's been their last bastion of income. I've always had good experiences with cab drivers but the business model is dated. You don't take a horse into a tank fight and you don't take a cab when you have Uber and Lyft. What kind of business operates for nearly 100 years and doesn't have to change the way they do business?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

JaredJ said:


> Most this info is already common knowledge.


Really?
Cite another source where this Data has been reported on before.


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> Really?
> Cite another source where this Data has been reported on before.


Do you drive Uber? Because I've known peak days, times, when I decline the most rides, what percentage of long rides to short rides I do. Ive been doing it since 2013. The particulars on incidents is new, but it should not be surprising when you have novice drivers out and about. A cost of doing business. The CPUC will regulate more safety training as a result but its not like Lyft and Uber are going anywhere.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

JaredJ said:


> Do you drive Uber? Because I've known peak days, times, when I decline the most rides, what percentage of long rides to short rides I do. Ive been doing it since 2013. The particulars on incidents is new, but it should not be surprising when you have novice drivers out and about. A cost of doing business. The CPUC will regulate more safety training as a result but its not like Lyft and Uber are going anywhere.


Oh you meant your personal experience as a Driver, not the aggregate data when you said:


JaredJ said:


> Most this info is already common knowledge.


A Driver's individual experience is not the same as a statewide compilation of aggregate data.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

There is currently one collision reported per 58,800 miles. 

I would like to know what percentage of collisions are actually reported? I have to imagine that a realatively high percentage are turned over to a drivers personal insurance carrier without getting reported to Uber.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

JaredJ said:


> So you drove for Uber Taxi in Chicago. Have never driven Uber.


Huh?
UberTaxi is not Uber? Perhaps a more precise statement would've been accurate "UberTaxi is not UberX". UberTaxi predates UberX by 2 years. Uber original name was UberCab.
*

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/28733937188







*



JaredJ said:


> Got terminated for a poor acceptance rate with Uber Taxi.


Umm...you didn't read the email I posted here 
https://uberpeople.net/threads/0-ca...nd-uberxl-in-houston.38835/page-3#post-510028

I was deactivated when Uber learnt chi1cabby's real identity. It had absolutely nothing to do with acceptance rate.


JaredJ said:


> Now you spend your nondriving time in your cab posting to almost every subforum on this website.


Actually my Uber related activities are much more encompassing than just posting on the Forum.

*UberPeople.NET In The Media*


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

my quick takeaways from this news...

insurance companies might now have some meaningful actuarial data

disappointed that there is zero data revealing driver churn

TNC drivers getting into collisions appears very high, and it's likely a result of the typical TNC driver being "new"

again, no data on driver churn 

the foundation of Uber's business model is the recruitment of new drivers

would be nice to see the numbers on what is an "active" driver, how many quit within a month, how many new drivers per month

we do get some kind of indication with the driver training graph


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## bezi_NY (Feb 28, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> *http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/11/16...fer-a-tiny-glimpse-of-data-from-uber-and-lyft*


I bet the lower rates and driver earnings resulted in longer hours behind the wheel and that's one of the big reasons why accidents is trending higher.

I bet Uber also lowered rates to keep drivers on the road longer..


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> *CPUC Report based on the Data:
> https://www.scribd.com/document_downloads/289290946?extension=pdf&from=embed&source=embed*
> 
> *
> ...


I find it kind of interesting that Raiser only paid out money in about 1/4th of those accidents. That could turn out to be a real story in itself. I suspect that there are lots of drivers/passengers/other affected parties that were left holding the bag, but maybe I'm wrong.


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## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

I had a close call on Halloween night and after that said this just is not worth the risk. Haven't completed a ride since. It's not an easy gig, you have to deal with people, other drivers, weather, watching the GPS.... I can see how all the newbies are having accidents.


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## Ubernice (Nov 6, 2015)

I have understood that here in az the accidents have increased exponentially since this ride share companies started activities; but our governor is doing all he can to retain this information


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

It's good information for me ( a competitor ) were doing "good " in comparison 
God bless all of us against accidents


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## haji (Jul 17, 2014)

Thanks good info


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

UberComic said:


> The quality of the drivers and cars has diminished with the pay.
> 
> The over abundance of money losing short trips has taken its toll by burning out drivers. Uber created this environment where it's OK to make a driver travel 15 minutes just to drive someone to the corner store.
> 
> Cities do need to step up their game on bike sharing to the point that it's damn near free. Monthly fees deter those who are just visiting. Santa Monica, which is a huge area for Uber, just began bike sharing.


The number of drivers on the road is not manageable. Uber and Lyft tend to manage by magical remote control aka "the peer to peer review system". That is not an effective way to manage. As the number of drivers grows exponentially, as a means of providing guidance, it will prove more and more problematic.

In State College, we have scores of drivers coming from way out of town. They often come from out of state, New Jersey, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New York. I even saw a car with Massachusetts plates and an Uber sticker though I didn't see it running calls. These drivers tend to blindly follow their GPS. I have talked to police officers from both the borough and neighboring Ferguson township. The night officers have mentioned having many issues with their driving. They don't seem to have problems with them speeding (I haven't seen much of that either), their beef was with blowing red lights, blinking lights, illegal U-turns, wrong way down one ways, loading in obviously unsafe areas.

Common sense stuff. What exactly is the quality of the drivers? I am going to suggest however good or bad the driver is, the circumstances are exacerbating their weakness.

There are too many drivers on the road. Uber, particularly in remote outposts such as where I live and where rates are still very high and drivers are encouraged to come for a workman's holiday of sorts, Uber limits real human contact between management and drivers. I'm told they show up for events, meet with drivers, have a cheerleading session, perhaps meet with the press, avoid saying anything connecting them to any form of responsibility, and then they leave town quietly without passing out personal numbers. That is not a way to cultivate quality or safety.

Massive fleets of drivers, bound to drive rates into the basement, exactly where Uber the TNC companies want them in order to avoid disruption, the willingness to mostly provide idle cars for impatient pax, it all makes for desperate, frustrated drivers. None of that lends itself to a safe driving environment.

Is the quality of drivers on the decline? Exponential growth in the number of drivers requires more meaningful attention than what Uber is providing. Expect more of the same.

I know from my own experience, in the last month I have had an Uber driver blow a red light on me. Later that evening a guy in from Harrisburg came at me on a one way street (gave him directions). I had another guy come at me last saturday then watched him make a left on red, he shrug his shoulders at me as I skirted around him where he blocked traffic. That was an ignorant college student. A friend of mine from another taxi company watched an Uber driver ticketed for attempting to turn the wrong way on a one way. He also drove over the curb, I suppose to avoid the traffic he didn't see coming his way. The best story is a casual friend of mine had his parked car hit and run by an Uber driver. Fortunately there was a witness. Uber is paying for the repairs and the driver claims it wasn't a hit and run because he didn't know he hit the car. That would make it a particularly stupid hit and run.

This is all in the last month alone. Poor quality or not, I personally believe much of it has to do with the idea that this is what defines a shit show. There are not enough good drivers to go around. Drivers do not last long enough to know what it takes to be a good TNC driver. Blindly following a GPS in a strange city, is not reasonable. The Harrisburg driver told me it was one of his first nights driving, that is not reasonable.

The TNC companies need to put down their remote controls and manage their resources. Unfortunately, to do so would put driver's IC status in jeopardy.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

AintWorthIt said:


> It's not an easy gig, you have to deal with people, other drivers, weather, watching the GPS.... I can see how all the newbies are having accidents


It is one thing to rely on GPS for a particular turn, it is another thing to literally need to follow GPS as an instructional guide for an entire trip. That should not be accepted.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

"This is all in the last month alone. Poor quality or not, I personally believe much of it has to do with the idea that this is what defines a shit show. There are not enough good drivers to go around. Drivers do not last long enough to know what it takes to be a good TNC driver. Blindly following a GPS in a strange city, is not reasonable. The Harrisburg driver told me it was one of his first nights driving, that is not reasonable."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are so many terrible, terrible cases of bad Uber drivers mucking up the streets where I drive that it's not even funny. You just have to shake your head.

Just in the last week, for example, I saw a brand new white Prius attempt to change into the freeway lane to the right DIRECTLY INTO a giant semi. Talk about not looking before you change lanes. What I saw in my mind's eye as this unfolded only 300 feet away from me was a horrific 10 or 20 car pile-up not including the semi since it was on a busy freeway. I could have had a hard time avoiding getting tangled up in it. Luckily, the semi was able to make an emergency move over to his right without hitting anyone since he kind of straddled the two lanes for a bit in order to warn the people to HIS right, that combined with lots of dumb luck. So later I sped up to check out the Prius driver and yep, sure enough, it was an Uber.

I was following another Prius Uber driver into Downtown Disney on a very busy night as we were both making the left turn into the ticket booth area. Then RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF GOD AND EVERYONE WITH TONS OF TRAFFIC BEHIND HIM AND I, he suddenly stops right in the middle of the street as soon as he makes the turn in order to pick up his pax just because the pax happened to be waiting on the corner outside the area (instead of inside the valet/taxi/dropoff/pickup area where she was supposed to be for pickups). I was very lucky that I did not end up either crashing into him, or getting rear-ended, or both.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen Uber drivers picking up or dropping off people AT THE BUS STOPS on Harbor avenue outside of Disney or illegally turning into the "shuttle bus only" area at the Silver Zone for their P/U or drops, and I saw this several times just last week. I mean really, you are risking a $500 ticket for a minimum fare?

It's getting to the point where I can tell who the Uber driver is not by what they are driving or by any decals but just the way they seem to have no clue as to where they are going, the way they suddenly slow down in the flow of traffic, the seemingly impulsive and random unsafe lane changes, the lack of signalling, the sudden stops just anywhere and everywhere irregardless of the world around them, the circling around of an obviously lost or clueless driver, the constant double-parking, the parking/waiting in taxi lines, etc. We used to have to keep a watchful eye on disoriented tourists but now it's tenfold with all the hapless Ubers. It's amazing that there are not more accidents than there are.
I have to admit that when I am Ubering in unfamiliar territory (I'm still trying to learn the LA area since I am used to driving in OC), then people at times probably say the same thing about me. It is very hard to just rely on your GPS if you don't know where you are going and have the time pressure of the UBER ETA, especially if you don't really know the right p/u or drop points for a particular venue or location in which the GPS is almost worthless for at times. Plus, not knowing the area well enough to know the traffic patterns and best routes. Waze sometimes helps me but often it takes me on embarrassingly meandering routes as well. The most dangerous thing for me is when I am trying to do an UberPool in LA and then they send the second request. Now all of a sudden, I no longer know which direction I'm even supposed to be heading since I'm already loaded with pax 1 and heading to dest 1, and I now have a new dest 2. I have learned that the best thing to do is to pull over in the first available SAFE place and get my bearing on where I have to be heading now. But pax 1 is generally going to get pissed at me or frightened about me pulling over in some random place/neighborhood in the middle of the trip. So I can see why an Uber driver might want to attempt to keep driving and figure out the new destination on the fly, and that, my friend, is a recipe for disaster.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

hanging in there said:


> Then RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF GOD AND EVERYONE WITH TONS OF TRAFFIC BEHIND HIM AND I, he suddenly stops right in the middle of the street as soon as he makes the turn in order to pick up his pax just because the pax happened to be waiting


Incredible. I see it all the time. The drivers seem to be conscious of the speed limit but not much beyond that.



hanging in there said:


> It's getting to the point where I can tell who the Uber driver is not by what they are driving or by any decals but just the way they seem to have no clue as to where they are going, the way they suddenly slow down in the flow of traffic, the seemingly impulsive and random unsafe lane changes, the lack of signalling, the sudden stops just anywhere and everywhere irregardless of the world around them, the circling around of an obviously lost or clueless driver, the constant double-parking, the parking/waiting in taxi lines, etc. We used to have to keep a watchful eye on disoriented tourists but now it's tenfold with all the hapless Ubers. It's amazing that there are not more accidents than there are.


It may be incumbent upon committed TNC drivers to hold themselves accountable for this and come up with their own solutions. That would build personal agency in terms of being independent contractors is concerned. Neither Uber nor Lyft can afford to acknowledge such issues. It is a thorn in their side for a number of reasons. The logical solution to these concerns would also help create a more sustainable environment for dedicated drivers. The downside is the TNC industry and drivers will have to recognize that the number of drivers will simply need to be limited. There may be X number of rides, but only Y number of drivers can be expected to be competent and focused, Uber or Lyft may only be able to effectively manage Z number of drivers.

The smaller number, be it Y or Z will need to be respected.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

JaredJ said:


> Do you drive Uber? Because I've known peak days, times, when I decline the most rides, what percentage of long rides to short rides I do. Ive been doing it since 2013. The particulars on incidents is new, but it should not be surprising when you have novice drivers out and about. A cost of doing business. The CPUC will regulate more safety training as a result but its not like Lyft and Uber are going anywhere.


There is not a single member of this forum that is more important than chi1cabby. I and we need him here.

I'm an uberx driver with over 4000 rides. He is our uber guardian angel.

There are plenty of worthless cabbies on here for you to complain about that offer nothing. Chi isn't one of them. He helps keep uber in check.

Thanks chi!


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Adbam,

I value the trust of my fellow forum members as much as my personal integrity. Thank you very much for your kind words!

chi1cabby.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> I was deactivated when Uber learnt chi1cabby's real identity.


How did they find out your true identity?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

JaredJ said:


> So you drove for Uber Taxi in Chicago. Have never driven UberX. Got terminated for a poor acceptance rate with Uber Taxi. Now you spend your nondriving time in your cab posting to almost every subforum on this website.


Personal attacks like this make you come across as just another point scorer without anything meaningful to add to the threads on here.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

200 bicyclists struck when opening doors. That's exactly when you are not covered by any insurnace and face a huge legal hurtle if sued for medical and pain. So to all those people that assume Ubers insurnace protects you, think again: http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2015/10/cyclist_sues_after_uber_privat.html


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

JaredJ said:


> So you drove for Uber Taxi in Chicago. Have never driven UberX. Got terminated for a poor acceptance rate with Uber Taxi. Now you spend your nondriving time in your cab posting to almost every subforum on this website.


Boo JaredJ - bad form to dis chi1cabby. Youse no gen'leman.


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## LA Cabbie (Nov 4, 2014)

JaredJ said:


> Cabs are done in LA once LAX pickups are allowed with X. That's been their last bastion of income. I've always had good experiences with cab drivers but the business model is dated. You don't take a horse into a tank fight and you don't take a cab when you have Uber and Lyft. What kind of business operates for nearly 100 years and doesn't have to change the way they do business?


Here we go again, take lax away from us and the whole industry will vanish. Let me quickly note what I have said here in the past so many times over.

1) gps and Internet connections are horrible.

2) weary travelers want to just jump in a cab and get home.

3) most business people have taxi as part of their expense account. Use it or loose it.

4) uber drivers will not pickup from the same convenient place as taxi.

5) most foreigners aren't going to mess with some app when they can pay in cash.

The only pax uber will take from us are those who don't want to pay the $15 min fare for what is a $7 dollar trip on the meter.

You uberers can have them with our blessings.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

LA Cabbie said:


> Here we go again


Uber hasn't even ended its honeymoon yet. Very mercurial times. Now there is data to be fought over. LAX is not going to prove all that critical relative to concerns over employee compensation claims, accident trends. This should be an interesting year.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

LA Cabbie said:


> Here we go again, take lax away from us and the whole industry will vanish. Let me quickly note what I have said here in the past so many times over.
> 
> 1) gps and Internet connections are horrible.
> 
> ...


Bingo !!!
Real on demand service 
Walk 15ft pull yellow handle voilah!!!!

After all day travel who cares of a few bucks , I want to get home


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Boo JaredJ - bad form to dis chi1cabby. Youse no gen'leman.


Have you noticed that as soon as a member brings this up 
It means they are on the last chapter of their uber career 
Previous posters are RIP


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## XRAYDELTAONE (Aug 4, 2015)

the cab cos are starting to run apps



JaredJ said:


> Cabs are done in LA once LAX pickups are allowed with X. That's been their last bastion of income. I've always had good experiences with cab drivers but the business model is dated. You don't take a horse into a tank fight and you don't take a cab when you have Uber and Lyft. What kind of business operates for nearly 100 years and doesn't have to change the way they do business?


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

I would be curious what and if there is a correlation of increased accidents to increased % of uberPOOL trips per Uber/Lyft Mile Driven?

Of course, there is also

An increased number of TNC drivers with little experience mulitasking driving, navigation, and customer service at the same time.

An increased number of TNC drivers picking up more passengers at locations like bars, restaurants, malls, grocery stores, entertainment venues, and city streets that were not designed with TNC transportation in mind.

Lower rates meaning less net income for Drivers meaning less money available for maintenance & repairs.

Lower rates meaning more Driver Churn (low retention) which puts the mean (average) days experience of any driver lower than in past years.

But uberPOOL is my pet peeve for this year. So I blame it ALL on uberPOOL. Luckily I drive safely. That means unless I'm 100% sure I won't be endangering the PAX#1 who is in my vehicle, I'm not Accepting PAX#2. So 95% of the time I won't accept PAX#2.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

The Uber incident rate per million miles seems extremely high. I believe taxis and regular passenger vehicle rates are around 5 accidents per million miles versus the 17 shown here. An incident every 58,000 miles could be one each year for full time driving.

Driver churn will probably do that. It takes awhile for driving and the distractions to become more second nature. Not many drivers stay that long. So everyone's always on the front end of the accident prone learning curve. Churn and learn.

I'm pretty sure that first line of 5 is where the rate should be just to be average. Compare this article - a bit dated but gives a general idea of normal crash rates:

....
In a calculation of accident rates per million miles on city streets, it found 4.6 crashes for cabs, 3.7 crashes for livery cars and 6.7 crashes for all vehicles, including public and private conveyances. A livery car was defined as a black car, for-hire livery or limousine carrying fewer than nine passengers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/28/nyregion/28cabs.html?_r=1&

Now the Uber chart showing a rate of around 17-18:


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

grams777 said:


> The Uber incident rate per million miles seems extremely high. I believe taxis and regular passenger vehicle rates are around 5 accidents per million miles versus the 17 shown here. An incident every 58,000 miles could be one each year for full time driving.
> 
> Driver churn will probably do that. It takes awhile for driving and the distractions to become more second nature. Not many drivers stay that long. So everyone's always on the front end of the accident prone learning curve. Churn and learn.
> 
> ...


I get what a collision is.

What is an incident? Would that include traffic violations/citations of any kind?


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

SCdave said:


> I get what a collision is.
> 
> What is an incident? Would that include traffic violations/citations of any kind?


Basically same thing as an accident. Incident=Accident. 6 = half dozen. Some places prefer using the word incident. It doesn't mean traffic violations or citations, that's something else entirely.

The CPUC uses it in this context in this TNC document:

What are the insurance requirements?

Each TNC must file its insurance policies under seal with the Safety and Enforcement Division
as part of applying for a license. TNCs must also file an insurance certificate to be posted on
the Commission website.

TNCs must maintain commercial liability insurance policies providing a minimum of $1,000,000
per-*incident* coverage for *incidents* involving TNC vehicles that seat seven (7) or fewer
passengers, including the driver, or $1,500,000 per-*incident* coverage for those TNCs that
elect to utilize vehicles that seat ten (10) or fewer passenger, including the driver. The
insurance provides coverage when the TNC driver is transporting a passenger as well as
drivers in transit to (after being matched through a TNC's platform) picking up a passenger.
No vehicle designed, used, or maintained for carrying more than 10 persons, including the
driver, may be operated by a TNC.​
http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/NR/rdonlyres/1788F1F1-EA38-4B68-B221-4116994F2252/0/TNC_App_Instrctns.pdf


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Ok, let me throw a small monkey wrench into the conversation.

What exactly is miles driven??

Miles with pax?

Miles on app??

Are dead miles included?


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Ok, that was more than one monkey wrench.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

SCdave said:


> uberPOOL is my pet peeve for this year.


Interesting question. I haven't gone out of my way to follow UberPOOL concerns. How common has it become in your market? In the taxi, if I a bust comes in and there are multiple people looking for rides, the strategy is always to rack and stack. In general, it doesn't really pay out well to do that, but it does make sense, it gets people home quick and I rather enjoy creating good lineups. Everyone saves money and I would suggest sometimes at my own expense. The same technique from the airport tends to be more worth the while based on location of the port.

When I do this kind of maneuver, I load all the pax from one common location and I personally choose them based upon them being ready to roll and how all of the participants line up with each other. The thought of picking up strangers at different destinations along an arc to dropping???

Uber is the company that manages to offer their passengers the pleasure of booking idle cars thanks to a clever shell game with the associated expenses. And now they do this. I would be looking for the auto pilot switch at that point, because clearly as a driver I'd feel as if I was just along for the ride.


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## driveLA (Aug 15, 2014)

Most of the new drivers are garbage 

I see them pulling crazy stunts on the road all the time


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

driveLA said:


> Most of the new drivers are garbage
> 
> I see them pulling crazy stunts on the road all the time


When did you first start to notice? Do you suppose it will be a trend that gets better or worse or is it likely to level off? I have my own ideas. All I will say at this moment is this is something I have seen develop rather quickly in the span of a six weeks time.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

driveLA said:


> Most of the new drivers are garbage
> 
> I see them pulling crazy stunts on the road all the time


Nah, that was me.


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

Just Another Uber Drive said:


> Relatively inexperienced drivers who are trying to pay attention to the road while also monitoring a GPS device while at the same time interacting with passengers - and probably doing it while tired - is always going to result in more accidents. There is just no way around those facts.


I was six inches from being in an accident tonight.. And I've been driving for 22 years.. .

Doesn't matter how long you've been driving ... All it takes is 1 second..


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## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

SECOTIME said:


> I was six inches from being in an accident tonight.. And I've been driving for 22 years.. .
> 
> Doesn't matter how long you've been driving ... All it takes is 1 second..


But with experience those seconds are further apart.


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## SECOTIME (Sep 18, 2015)

everythingsuber said:


> But with experience those seconds are further apart.


Your experience has little to do with the chick behind you with her face in her phone as she slamms on her breaks in the rain on I4 and goes sliding right beside you 6 inches away.. So lucky..

I could see her face in my rear view mirror. Lit up like she was about to tell a ghost story..


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

grams777 said:


> The Uber incident rate per million miles seems extremely high. I believe taxis and regular passenger vehicle rates are around 5 accidents per million miles versus the 17 shown here. An incident every 58,000 miles could be one each year for full time driving.
> 
> Driver churn will probably do that. It takes awhile for driving and the distractions to become more second nature. Not many drivers stay that long. So everyone's always on the front end of the accident prone learning curve. Churn and learn.
> 
> ...


Not to defend uber, but presumably those miles (at least for uber) are either only the miles with a pax, or only the message with the app on. Either way, they are not the actual miles that drivers are "ubering", although if it IS app on that word be pretty close.

Any indication how those especially are calculated?

The accident rate is still high even if you assume actual app on is twice the miles.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Not to defend uber, but presumably those miles (at least for uber) are either only the miles with a pax, or only the message with the app on. Either way, they are not the actual miles that drivers are "ubering", although if it IS app on that word be pretty close.
> 
> Any indication how those especially are calculated?
> 
> The accident rate is still high even if you assume actual app on is twice the miles.


It's apparently app on time and all accidents while the app is on. There appears to be no qualifying language for this report. In other reports such as fares, they are specific in that regard, but not here. So the miles and accidents should match up. Also one would assume miles and incidents cover the same period. Otherwise the report would be meaningless. The report for the CPUC requires hours and miles spent driving:

hours and miles each TNC driver spent driving for the TNC.
http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M153/K171/153171722.PDF


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

grams777 said:


> It's apparently app on time and all accidents while the app is on. There appears to be no qualifying language for this report. In other reports such as fares, they are specific in that regard, but not here. So the miles and accidents should match up. Also one would assume miles and incidents cover the same period. Otherwise the report would be meaningless. The report for the CPUC requires hours and miles spent driving:
> 
> hours and miles each TNC driver spent driving for the TNC.
> http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M153/K171/153171722.PDF


With Uber we really can't assume anything, they will always present information in a way that benefits Uber.

If accidents reported are per mile driven on app, remember that Uber just recently started covering accidents when there was no pax in car.

How many accidents were not reported to Uber but to personal insurance?

This would mean their accident rate is higher than reported.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

20yearsdriving said:


> It's good information for me ( a competitor ) were doing "good " in comparison
> God bless all of us against accidents


With TNC's in CA reporting approx 17 'incidents" per million miles driven, do you have any comparable data on incidents for the livery industry?


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

hanging in there said:


> "This is all in the last month alone. Poor quality or not, I personally believe much of it has to do with the idea that this is what defines a shit show. There are not enough good drivers to go around. Drivers do not last long enough to know what it takes to be a good TNC driver. Blindly following a GPS in a strange city, is not reasonable. The Harrisburg driver told me it was one of his first nights driving, that is not reasonable."
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> There are so many terrible, terrible cases of bad Uber drivers mucking up the streets where I drive that it's not even funny. You just have to shake your head.
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like Uber driver's aren't the problem... it's Priuses (uh, Pri-i, errr Prium?).


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

XRAYDELTAONE said:


> the cab cos are starting to run apps


LOL!
Talk about closing the barns doors after the horses have darted!

It's not about the cab co's running apps (they did that before Uber).
It's about RIDERS bothering to install and use an app.
Nearly NO ONE is going to install an app that limits them to hailing a cab from just one company,
THAT is why UberTAXI works... it hails the closest cab from ANY company.

Until the Taxi Industry can get it's act together to provide ONE app that emulates UberTAXI, 
nothing an individual cab company does is going to stem to the tide that is TNC.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> With TNC's in CA reporting approx 17 'incidents" per million miles driven, do you have any comparable data on incidents for the livery industry?


I have been searching for comparable California data for collisions/incidents for Taxicabs/Livery & population at large. This is the closest report that I could find, but it's 2004 data from NYC:
*NYC Cabbies Less Crash-Prone Than Other Drivers
http://www.schallerconsult.com/taxi/crash06.htm*

_New York City cabbies are less crash-prone than other drivers; as a result, passengers are less likely to be injured as a passenger in a taxicab or livery car than as an occupant of other vehicles, according to a study released today by Schaller Consulting.

The study, based on recently released New York State accident data, shows that:_

_Crash rates were one-third lower for taxicabs and liveries than for other types of vehicles in 2004. The crash rate was 4.6 taxicabs involved in reported accidents per million miles traveled and 3.7 liveries involved in reported accidents per million miles traveled, compared with 6.7 vehicles involved in reported accidents per million miles for all vehicles in New York City._
_As a result of lower crash rates in these vehicles, taxi and livery passengers are less likely to be injured while riding in a taxi/livery than are occupants of other vehicles. There were 1.6 injured taxi passengers per million passenger miles traveled and 2.0 injured livery passengers per million passenger miles traveled in 2004. These figures are lower than the injury rate of 2.6 injured persons per million miles traveled for occupants (drivers and passengers) of all vehicles in New York City, in 2004._
_Noting that many people perceive cabs as less safely driven than other vehicles, Bruce Schaller, Principal of Schaller Consulting and the author of the study, said, "The lower crash rates for cabbies are not so surprising given that taxi drivers are far more experienced than other drivers. They are behind the wheel up to 3,000 hours a year. Their driving records are scrutinized by the Taxi and Limousine Commission and auto insurance carriers. They risk losing their livelihood if they have too many crashes or get too many tickets."_

_Another finding of the study is that taxi and livery crashes declined 12 percent from 2003 to 2004, and 30 percent since 1999. These declines are attributable to the City's strict ceilings on the number of DMV points drivers can accumulate and improved auto insurance underwriting practices. Cab drivers have also been staying in the industry longer, a significant fact given that less-experienced drivers are more crash-prone._

_Other highlights of the study are:_

_For a typical Manhattan resident who takes 100 cab trips a year, the chance of being injured as a taxi passenger is 0.4% over a 10-year eriod, at current crash rates._
_Taxis and liveries cause injuries to pedestrians at a lower rate than do other vehicles, but cabs are more likely to cause injuries to bicyclists than are other vehicles._
_While injury rates are lower for taxi passengers than for occupants of other vehicles, the severity of injury is greater for those passengers who are injured in a taxicab. Low rates of seat belt use and the presence of the safety partition account for this disparity._


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Ride-Sharing Incidents/Collisions Steadily Increasing*
*http://www.allgov.com/usa/ca/news/w...isions-steadily-increasing-151119?news=857885*


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## William1964 (Jul 28, 2015)

That the drivers had gotten two incidents accidents whatever you called had a higher rating than I do. Maybe I need an incident to get my rating up.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> I will post a detailed reply on the circumstances surrounding my deactivation in a few days.


Please include your shoe size, what you had for breakfast and your favorite birthday present. Can't see how one jackass should drive you into talking about your private life. Tell him to take a hike, that your private life is private. He is a scumbag and should be ignored. Literally.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> With TNC's in CA reporting approx 17 'incidents" per million miles driven, do you have any comparable data on incidents for the livery industry?


Good question 
I don't know 
I had a small one this year 0% at fault ( I was rear ended)
Other guy I know got rear ended 
I've seen 5 accidents near LAX in last 5 years ( involving livery vehicles)

But I know insurance rates were stable last 5 years 
25% increase for 2016


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Please include your shoe size, what you had for breakfast and your favorite birthday present. Can't see how one jackass should drive you into talking about your private life. Tell him to take a hike, that your private life is private. He is a scumbag and should be ignored. Literally.


Disagree. With all of Uber's publicized and non-publicized intrusions and threats of intrusion into peoples' business it may be useful to find out what shenanigans they got up to with our own chi1cabby.

Note that the question was what Uber did to find out his identity, not inquiring about any of the details of his private life.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Well, some wizard turned your gunslinger self into a Cat. Was it Uber? How did they do it?


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> I have been searching for comparable California data for collisions/incidents for Taxicabs/Livery & population at large. This is the closest report that I could find, but it's 2004 data from NYC:
> *NYC Cabbies Less Crash-Prone Than Other Drivers
> http://www.schallerconsult.com/taxi/crash06.htm*
> 
> ...


Maybe insurance companies need to relook how they figure insurance costs and lower rates for commercial drivers.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

The data is talking about per million miles driven. Cabs probably drive at least 3 times the miles that a normal (non tnc) driver drives. That means that cabs do get in more accidents per year. Also commercial cab insurance is higher because the accident has a higher chance of involving more than 1 person.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Adbam said:


> The data is talking about per million miles driven. Cabs probably drive at least 3 times the miles that a normal (non tnc) driver drives. That means that cabs do get in more accidents per year. Also commercial cab insurance is higher because the accident has a higher chance of involving more than 1 person.


No, the chances of more than one person being involved is the same as any other vehicle.

I thought about it after I wrote my previous post. The reason commercial insurance is more expensive is because commercial vehicles are required by law to have high insurance coverage.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Adbam said:


> The data is talking about per million miles driven. Cabs probably drive at least 3 times the miles that a normal (non tnc) driver drives. That means that cabs do get in more accidents per year. Also commercial cab insurance is higher because the accident has a higher chance of involving more than 1 person.


As far as taxi drivers driving 3X a regular driver, this is wrong too.

It's comparing 1 million miles driven by taxis, to million miles driven by TNCs.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Kind of like, a pound of feathers weighs the same as a pound of gold is the same as a pound of sand is the same as a pound of Cheddar cheese.

They are all one pound. It's a specific measurement.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

Let me mathematically prove it to you.

Let's say a cab drives 30,000 miles a year and a normal driver drives 10,000 a year.

1,000,000÷30000 (1 cab driver) = 33 drivers
1,000,000÷10000 (1 normal nontnc driver= 100 drivers.

4.6 ÷ 33 drivers = 14% or 14 cab drivers out of 100 drivers get into 1 accident a year.

6.7 ÷ 100 drivers = less than 7% or less than 7 regular drivers out of 100 get into 1 accident a year.

Now this is an estimation because I don't even think a nyc resident drives 10000 miles a year. 

I'm pretty confident that cabbies drive at least 3 times more than a normal person and probably more.


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## Adbam (Jun 25, 2015)

Now of course this only describes why insurance should cost more for a cab driver than a normal person.

We can't compare nyc cab drivers to CA tnc drivers. NYC is its own beast.

I would like to compare CA cab driver stats to tnc drivers with more than 1 yr experience driving. 

I think this data does reveal a real problem with uber chewing thru drivers. 

Cabs have less of a turn over rate and more experience than an average uber driver. That's what it comes down to.

I'm an experienced tnc with over 4000 rides and no accidents (knock on wood).
I guarantee I drive better/safer than 90% of the cab drivers in my city.

To bad uber doesn't care about driver retention and some day I'll be gone....


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Adbam said:


> Let me mathematically prove it to you.
> 
> Let's say a cab drives 30,000 miles a year and a normal driver drives 10,000 a year.
> 
> ...


Can you put this on a white board and take a photo?


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Sounds to me like Uber driver's aren't the problem... it's Priuses (uh, Pri-i, errr Prium?).


I hope that you are joking, I have to assume you are. But just in case, I could have just as easily chosen a few other examples of the multitude of bone-headed dangerous traffic/driving situations by non-Prius Uber drivers. I didn't even touch on all the "wrong-way down a one-way street or service road" Uber drivers that I see, etc.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Adbam said:


> Let me mathematically prove it to you.
> 
> Let's say a cab drives 30,000 miles a year and a normal driver drives 10,000 a year.
> 
> ...


Ok, I'm not as good as you at math , and you are right cab drivers do drive more miles individually than individual TNC drivers.

However, this chart is comparing INCIDENTS/ACCIDENTS per million miles driven by cab drivers and by million miles driven byTNC drivers.

Not, by miles driven per taxi/tnc driver per incident per million miles driven.

Two different things.

I million miles driven could be one taxi driver. It could be 1 million miles driven by 500,000 drivers.

It doesn't matter it's still one million miles driven.


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## Pierro (Jan 1, 2015)

ORT said:


> Uber has become like a drug to many pax, please don't take away my uber, you know that guy gal that comes to pick my ass up from anywhere for a dirt cheap price, lol.


All Good things must come to an End, 
Uber Driver Exploitation has been at 
the Highest Level during the 2015, so
The Service will Decline & everybody 
Gets his / her's money's Worth LoL


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

Now, let's compare these to cabs and put them in context.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Lol the stats show drivers accidents on a major rise and insurance doesn't pay out. Ridesharing is going to drive everyone's private insurance premiums sky high. This is why Uber doesn't want to release the data. It's proof you're left holding the bag and you're in for a heap of legal woes.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

BurgerTiime said:


> Lol the stats show drivers accidents on a major rise and insurmace doesn't pay out. Ridesharing is going to driver everyone's private insurance premiums sky high. This is why Uber doesn't want to release the data. It's proof you're left holding the bag and you're in for a heap of legal woes.


I've been hearing on the news the past couple months about how some of the major insurance companies are significantly raising premiums lately. Maybe it's the "Uber Effect". :-(

There's a reason that livery insurance rates are much higher, even if they are at the same or similar coverage limit levels as personal insurance. It's just a higher risk, plain and simple, to be out there doing commercial pickups, regardless of what you want to call it. Insurance companies are not stupid, they may be a little slow to react to the new realities that they are being subjected to but it will eventually come out in the wash. Risk = cost, insurance companies are not in the business of absorbing increased risk without covering that cost + profit, if they even choose to accept that increased risk at all.

Even a part time driver who just adds, let's say, 5k/mi year of Uber driving to what used to be only 10k/mi year of personal driving, IMO, is increasing the risk of a claim by 3 fold. That's right, a 50% increase in miles increases the risk by 300%. If I were an insurance company and I charged ol' Charley $50/mo for "personal driving only", if he started doing another 5k/yr of Uber driving I'd want to charge him $150/mo for the same car with the same limits of coverage. (Just as a rough point of comparison, commercial insurance policies typically will cost about $5000-$10,000 yr and people with those policies are generally going to be driving 50k-80k/mi per year. Compared to the typical personal insurance policy that costs maybe $600-$800/yr and the driver puts in maybe 10-20k/mi per year. That's about 8-12 times the cost for just maybe a 4x increase in miles.) Why?

Because, think about it. In the case of the TNC's, when you go out to Uber, even just in the trolling stage, what happens when you are trying to get a ping? Maybe you are chasing a surge area, and the surge area keeps moving on you. (Kind of stupid but, drivers do it, especially if it is slow, I'm guilty of it as well.) Plus chasing hot spots as advertised by Uber/Lyft or chasing surges often puts you in unfamiliar territory which increases your chance of accidents because you don't know what roads suddenly narrow up on you, what construction is going on, where the bottlenecks are, what kind of one-ways or access issues are going on in an area.

Let's say you are driving and you get a ping. Accepting the ping is dangerous while driving. Making sudden lane changes, U-turns etc to get going towards the pickup, and rushing to the pickup so as not to extend the promised ETA, adds risk. Sure, the safe thing to do is to pull over and get your bearings and proceed in a safe and sane fashion towards the pin drop, but maybe the pax sees your lack of movement and calls you about it or cancels on you, so you want to keep moving in order to avoid that, right? And you want to get there fast so they don't get frustrated by the wait and cancel. OR especially if it is surging, you don't want to give them the luxury of time to notice, maybe on a friends phone, that the surge rate has disappeared and so they decide to cancel and then order again at the normal rate.

So you get to the pax, and then you have strangers in your car doing or saying who-knows-what while you are trying to concentrate on getting them "there", but you didn't even have a chance to figure out where "there" was until you started the trip. So more often than not you are blindly following the GPS if you are not very familiar with the area, and turn-by-turn can lag through the app, so it is easy to miss an exit or a turn, and it's kind of confusing sometimes to try and follow it in real time especially with whatever is going on in the car, i.e. some A-hole is blasting whatever rap he thinks is great so you can't even think straight, someone in the back seat looks like they might puke so you have to try and watch them and try to be ready to pull over, someone else is trying to have some stupid conversation with you which you feel compelled to play along with to try for your 5 stars.

Add the confusion and extra pressure added to the ride in the case of a second or third destination Pool ride.

Then you have the drunks or boneheads that won't put in their destination and insist on "turn left, no I mean right, hey I meant after the NEXT light no go straight!, Hey, you are costing me money, buddy, 1 star for you! Hey how come you didn't run that light, you "coulda" made it! Can you go faster I gotta (get to my plane/get to my train/get home to my girlfriend/get to work on time)."

There is a lot of pressure on the driver to "make bank" on any given day, or to get the coveted 5 stars from the pax, and that means he or she is perhaps tempted to take traffic risks that he normally would not take, in order to maximize the pings, the rides, the fares, the totals and high ratings for the day. That is entirely different than "normal" personal driving.

All this adds risk, and it's very similar whether it's in a taxi or a "rideshare" vehicle.

The taxi's definitely have their share of accidents, don't get me wrong. I was an accident investigator for my previous taxi company for a couple years and I would typically handle about 2 accidents per week for a fleet of about 250 drivers. More often than not it was the newer less experienced drivers who caused most of the accidents. Most taxi drivers in our company lasted about an average of 3 months. It seemed like at any given time about 2/3 of the fleet was made up of this transient inexperienced desperate semi-clueless driver pool and the other 1/3 was made up of the old salty dogs who had figured it out and were here to stay, for years and years. Given the very high turnover rate with the TNC's this is another factor to consider.


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## Scenicruiser (Oct 17, 2014)

Wow...you guys got it all worked out...I don't know why I bother steering


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

JaredJ said:


> Cabs are done in LA once LAX pickups are allowed with X. That's been their last bastion of income. I've always had good experiences with cab drivers but the business model is dated. You don't take a horse into a tank fight and you don't take a cab when you have Uber and Lyft. What kind of business operates for nearly 100 years and doesn't have to change the way they do business?


It's just an app. Just a better way to dispatch. No one's disputing that. Yes, the taxis should switch over to app-based dispatch. Yes, the taxis are already doing that. And yes, there's a lot of other problems with taxis. No disagreement.

The better business model you're referring to is actually something else. Namely, offering transportation at 1/2 or 1/3 the price of commercial taxis.

Price is the basis of UBER's insanely popular appeal. Price is what continues to bolster it's appeal.

The technology is now very widespread and well established in the consumer market. Clearly, the app-based approach is better. And obviously, that's the future.

But would UBER and Lyft continue with their spectacular growth if they were priced on par with commercial taxis?

I will bet the answer is no.

Traditional phone-based dispatch is rapidly disappearing because now there's better, more efficient systems for dispatch. But remember that the app-based dispatch systems still have a long way to go.

And where they will eventually have to go, is higher rates. It's just a matter of time. Once UBER no longer has a price advantage, then we'll see which service drivers and customers prefer.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

stuber said:


> It's just an app. Just a better way to dispatch. No one's disputing that. Yes, the taxis should switch over to app-based dispatch. Yes, the taxis are already doing that. And yes, there's a lot of other problems with taxis. No disagreement.
> 
> The better business model you're referring to is actually something else. Namely, offering transportation at 1/2 or 1/3 the price of commercial taxis.
> 
> ...


Instead of just fighting Uber being regulated, taxis should be fighting for the same advantages.

Lower insurance coverage.

Less requirements for drivers.

No cap on amount of cars.

Ability to add personal cars to taxi fleets.


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

JaredJ said:


> Cabs are done in LA once LAX pickups are allowed with X. That's been their last bastion of income. I've always had good experiences with cab drivers but the business model is dated. You don't take a horse into a tank fight and you don't take a cab when you have Uber and Lyft. What kind of business operates for nearly 100 years and doesn't have to change the way they do business?


I've had bad experiences with almost every cab driver.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Matt Uterak said:


> I've had bad experiences with almost every cab driver.


I've had good experiences with almost every cab driver.


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## ORT (Nov 14, 2015)

Matt Uterak said:


> I've had bad experiences with almost every cab driver.


Why is that, because Taxi drivers don't wine and dine you, and you don't have that star rating control hovering over their head, no control over their job status, lol.


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

ORT said:


> Why is that, because Taxi drivers don't wine and dine you, and you don't have that star rating hovering over their head, no control over their job status, lol.


No. it is because they are often African, don't speak english and yell on their phone the entire trip and don't acknowledge questions.

The only good cab rides I can remember was in Chichester, UK and Dublin, Ireland.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

observer said:


> I've had good experiences with almost every cab driver.


You belive every rider is having a great experience with you? Do you have a 5.0 rating consistently week after week month after month?


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

BurgerTiime said:


> You belive every rider is having a great experience with you? Do you have a 5.0 rating consistently week after week month after month?


Yepp, I believe EVERY rider is having a great experience with me.

I don't care how I'm rated, good or bad.

If my damn kids don't like the way I drive, they can walk to school.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

observer said:


> Instead of just fighting Uber being regulated, taxis should be fighting for the same advantages.
> 
> Lower insurance coverage.
> 
> ...


If you're coming from the point of view that the FOR HIRE transportation industry is better served by part time, temporary drivers, then your comments would make sense. That's UBER's contention.

If you see it as I do, that the industry is better served by full time professional drivers, then I don't agree with your comments.


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

stuber said:


> If you're coming from the point of view that the FOR HIRE transportation industry is better served by part time, temporary drivers, then your comments would make sense. That's UBER's contention.
> 
> If you see it as I do, that the industry is better served by full time professional drivers, then I don't agree with your comments.


The Transportation industry is better served by professional full time drivers. unfortunately, like with everything, people shop on price. Their choices demand an unprofessional part time driver cadre.

I can't believe Uber gets away with their "Training". I watch a 10 minute video and now I can drive people around with Uber on the hook for $1 million in liability for the passenger.

Drop the rates and then allow old crap cars to pick up.

I must say, not one person has complained about my car.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Well, some wizard turned your gunslinger self into a Cat. Was it Uber? How did they do it?


No, surprisingly, the introspective self-questioning cat is not an Uber-approved avatar.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

stuber said:


> If you're coming from the point of view that the FOR HIRE transportation industry is better served by part time, temporary drivers, then your comments would make sense. That's UBER's contention.
> 
> If you see it as I do, that the industry is better served by full time professional drivers, then I don't agree with your comments.


Nope, I never said anything about part time drivers.

I prefer drivers (all jobs really not just drivers) to be full time.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

observer said:


> Yepp, I believe EVERY rider is having a great experience with me.
> 
> I don't care how I'm rated, good or bad.
> 
> If my damn kids don't like the way I drive, they can walk to school.


You just contradicted yourself there pal. Can't have a discussion with a narcissist.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> _Crash rates were one-third lower for taxicabs and liveries than for other types of vehicles in 2004. The crash rate was 4.6 taxicabs involved in reported accidents per million miles traveled and 3.7 liveries involved in reported accidents per million miles traveled, compared with 6.7 vehicles involved in reported accidents per million miles for all vehicles in New York City._
> 
> _While injury rates are lower for taxi passengers than for occupants of other vehicles, the severity of injury is greater for those passengers who are injured in a taxicab. Low rates of seat belt use and the presence of the safety partition account for this disparity._


*Crash Rate Per Million Miles Driven in NYC*

TNC: 17
Gen Pop: 6.7
Taxis: 4.6
Livery: 3.7

Now THAT is interesting.

NYC is different than other cities - 
and the data for gen-pop & taxi/livery is quite old, 
but still...


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

hanging in there said:


> I hope that you are joking, I have to assume you are. But just in case, I could have just as easily chosen a few other examples of the multitude of bone-headed dangerous traffic/driving situations by non-Prius Uber drivers. I didn't even touch on all the "wrong-way down a one-way street or service road" Uber drivers that I see, etc.


I don't see the problem:
When I go down a One Way street,
regardless of the direction I'm travelling,
I'm only going one way.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

I overlooked this graph. Am I reading it correctly that TNCs are covering only about 20% of accidents?


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

observer said:


> View attachment 18574
> 
> I overlooked this graph. Am I reading it correctly that TNCs are covering only about 20% of accidents?


Isn't there a fairly high deductible for the James river insurance?

I read it as any accident they paid money on. If the deductible was not met they don't pay anything.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Matt Uterak said:


> I've had bad experiences with almost every cab driver.


I've had less than stellar experience with almost every Uber driver I've used. I'm think I may have to be done with UberBlack because the service has deteriorated so far!

They almost never arrive in the estimated time. They are usually sitting at home and taking their time to get moving. They are NEVER wearing professional clothes. Out of about 40 trips, zero dressed appropriately. About a third lack english skills. About half use worn out bouncy Suburbans. About a third of the drivers smell like an ashtray.

And don't f'n call me! I have put in my address, just drive to it. Im getting ready so you don't have to wait for me, stop with the calls! And don't keep asking me for directions. I put in the destination address, just follow your navigation and drive to it. Okay seriously now... I said just follow the navigation, stop asking me directions! Your supposed to be a professional, that's why I'm paying for UberBlack. And get off your lazy ass and get my door or at least make the attempt to. Maybe you will drive over less feet if you did.

My driver yesterday was taking me to a brewery and asked if I wanted to get out when we we stopped at a corner. She said it looked like the brewery was "just around the corner.". I said I didn't see it so keep driving. The brewey was 3 blocks further and down a side street. Just horrible bad service!

I have never taken an UberX, but somehow I feel the experience may be better as long as I don't get the drug addict driver.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

BurgerTiime said:


> Lol the stats show drivers accidents on a major rise and insurance doesn't pay out. Ridesharing is going to drive everyone's private insurance premiums sky high. This is why Uber doesn't want to release the data. It's proof you're left holding the bag and you're in for a heap of legal woes.


Bingo we all pay for it !!!!!
I got my 25% increase , thanks uber 
Their hands are long to reach my pocket


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> I've had less than stellar experience with almost every Uber driver I've used. I'm think I may have to be done with UberBlack because the service has deteriorated so far!
> 
> They almost never arrive in the estimated time. They are usually sitting at home and taking their time to get moving. They are NEVER wearing professional clothes. Out of about 40 trips, zero dressed appropriately. About a third lack english skills. About half use worn out bouncy Suburbans. About a third of the drivers smell like an ashtray.
> 
> ...


I've only driven and used X. My drivers have all been fine.

I chatted with a lady today about how bad her drivers are all the time. She praised me. Then when we got to her destination she got super C*nty because she didn't like the side I was dropping her off at. The station has 4 entrances, she entered the main entrance into the app. I am fairly certain she rated me a 1 as it dropped from a 4,91 for the weekend to a 4.82 several hours on.

I have a feeling her drivers are good, she is just not very nice.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Matt Uterak said:


> Isn't there a fairly high deductible for the James river insurance?
> 
> I read it as any accident they paid money on. If the deductible was not met they don't pay anything.


1k for Uber, 2.5k for Lyft.

If average accident pay out is 6,500 bux, you can add that to the total. So average payout where TNC "paid something" is really, 7,500 to 9,000 average.

Also like you stated that doesn't include "incidents/accidents" that were under the deductible threshold.

It also doesn't include claims fraudulently submitted to personal insurance companies.

In the end everyone, drivers, passengers, personal insurance companies (that's you and me, wether we use Uber or not) are subsidizing Uber.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

^^^^^^^ Add 20yearsdriving to above post ^^^^^^



20yearsdriving said:


> Bingo we all pay for it !!!!!
> I got my 25% increase , thanks uber
> Their hands are long to reach my pocket


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

observer said:


> ^^^^^^^ Add 20yearsdriving to above post ^^^^^^


I get 60% of my bussines paid in cash money

I'm flirting with passing the bullet forward


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Matt Uterak said:


> Isn't there a fairly high deductible for the James river insurance?
> 
> I read it as any accident they paid money on. If the deductible was not met they don't pay anything.


Good point - and yes, the James River policy deductible is $1,000. And it should be noted that the TNC insurance also won't have paid anything if the incident was not the fault of the TNC driver (unless the at-fault driver is uninsured).


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

stuber said:


> If you're coming from the point of view that the FOR HIRE transportation industry is better served by part time, temporary drivers, then your comments would make sense. That's UBER's contention.
> 
> If you see it as I do, that the industry is better served by full time professional drivers, then I don't agree with your comments.


Is it 'either or or'? Or do part-time drivers working in their local areas as they have time simply broaden the ability of people to get rides - and provide alternatives to what used to be the only option?


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

what up with all the running over passanger feet lol


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## KMANDERSON (Jul 19, 2015)

I think the money in the gig economy is all heading toward delivery and not rideshare.There to much regulation for it to be worth it.Not saying regulation a bad thing but you do doordash postmates and not deal with all this stuff


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Is it 'either or or'? Or do part-time drivers working in their local areas as they have time simply broaden the ability of people to get rides - and provide alternatives to what used to be the only option?


I always appreciate your comments Michael.

Whether it's part time drivers or full time drivers is not really the issue. I agree.

At issue is regulation. Why are cities allowing unregulated UBER X and Lyft cars to compete for commercial business, while taxis and limousines are still being required to abide by the existing regulations?

It's truly amazing.

IMO, if you're driving people around for pay you should be required to:

1. Carry commercial liability insurance at an appropriate minimum level ($1M/$300K.)

2. Pass an FBI fingerprint background check.

3. Pass a DOT physical and drug test.

4. Have a good vehicle that passes a rigorous safety inspection annually.

These requirements are reasonable. But of course, enforcing this as a standard makes UBER X untenable because fewer part time drivers are going to jump through the hoops.

Thus UBER continues to lobby for access and exemption. And they have successfully pushed their product because:

1. It's cheap and convenient and popular.

2. The existing competition (taxis) are generally horrible.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

stuber said:


> I always appreciate your comments Michael.
> 
> Whether it's part time drivers or full time drivers is not really the issue. I agree.
> 
> ...


You had me agreeing to everything you wrote until your last statement.

I haven't been in a taxi in a few years but my experiences with them (Los Angeles, Oakland, San Francisco, San Jose, Tijuana, Guadalajara, Mexico City) have all been good.

I look at taxis here in Long Beach. They are always clean and nice looking. Drivers wearing dress slacks and shirts.

Is taxi being horrible just a stereotype that Uber has successfully ingrained into everyone, or is it because I'm always the glass is half full type of guy?


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

observer said:


> You had me agreeing to everything you wrote until your last statement.
> 
> I haven't been in a taxi in a few years but my experiences with them (Los Angeles, Oakland, San Francisco, San Jose, Tijuana, Guadalajara, Mexico City) have all been good.
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more! (except for some reason when a cabbies get into LAX, they drive like buttholes)


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

observer said:


> You had me agreeing to everything you wrote until your last statement.
> 
> I haven't been in a taxi in a few years but my experiences with them (Los Angeles, Oakland, San Francisco, San Jose, Tijuana, Guadalajara, Mexico City) have all been good.
> 
> ...


Agreed. There's lots of great taxis out there. But...generally speaking, there have been far too many lousy ones.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Owner/drivers are usually the best taxis. To save their industry, taxi fleet companies should aggressively move away from the weekly lease model, and towards the owner/driver model.

Medallions should really only be owned by drivers--not fleets.

Radio dispatch or smartphone based dispatch like UBER should, ideally, be just a subscription service that independent contractors purchase. There's no real reason to have UBER or a taxi company involved with anything other than dispatch.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

observer said:


> You had me agreeing to everything you wrote until your last statement.
> 
> I haven't been in a taxi in a few years but my experiences with them (Los Angeles, Oakland, San Francisco, San Jose, Tijuana, Guadalajara, Mexico City) have all been good.
> 
> ...


The most successful dis-information campaign Uber has ever pulled off is the stereotype of the "horrible" taxi driver "ripping you off" and the "dirty, stinky unsafe" taxi along with the whole "taxi cartel/monopoly" image. As with any industry that is so established and so fragmented (actually the polar opposite of a monopoly or cartel) around the globe, it would be impossible to not find as many anecdotes as needed to back up whatever generalization you need to promote for your particular purpose.

Uber has done this in an amazing way in order to accomplish two things, one, to turn the public their way quickly through this guerrilla marketing campaign (we are better cheaper friendlier and... did we mention cheaper???) and two, to keep the troops (drivers) inline without much training effort at all by instead tapping into their pride, their ego, to create a false sense of superiority even among clueless newbies with the ever-present implied message that "Hey, I'm an Uber driver so therefore by definition I am BETTER than a stinky cab driver! I need to go out there and do everything Uber says to make sure people KNOW it, and give me 5 stars!".

The reality is, taxi/driver quality is a huge variable, it is unfair to make a blanket generalization about that industry as a whole, but they were and are an easy target and you can't blame Uber for capitalizing on that fact. The fact is, Uber is the true monopoly player if there is one at this point, but the good thing about that fact is that this has allowed them to create a consistent quality image among the drivers/cars that would otherwise not be possible, using the taxi industry as an easy scapegoat/example.

I know from a personal level that when I drive my taxi, I dress better, drive a newer/better minivan, and am just a nice/honest/courteous to pax as when I drive my Ubermobile, but that's partly because I am that way, partly because I own my own taxi that I bought brand new less than 2 years ago, and partly because the taxi company I drive for will fire a driver for simply being out of uniform in a small way or for not keeping their car super clean at all times, let alone for any significant customer issues. But we compete with drivers from other taxi companies in OC that are just as bad if not worse than the worst Uber stereotypes in every way and then some.

So when I hear that "taxis are horrible"... there is really nothing I can say unless someone wants to hear a half-hour diatribe about how SOME of them are and SOME of them are not. From a customer perception standpoint on the industry as a whole, you just can't fight it.

The whole argument that the taxi industry needs to "step up their game" is a moot point for the most part due to the above-mentioned fragmented state of the industry. It is highly doubtful that thousands of competing taxi companies across the country or the globe will ever try and come together and cooperate on anything or agree on anything, let alone share pax leads which would be necessary in order to truly compete by having one common app. And even if they did ALL that, they still could not compete on price with Uber unless all regulatory bodies across the country/world decided to let the taxi industry off the hook and simply drive around with personal/hybrid insurance, little or no regulatory costs or permits, etc. Righhhhht, like that's really going to happen. :-(


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

hanging in there said:


> The most successful dis-information campaign Uber has ever pulled off is the stereotype of the "horrible" taxi driver "ripping you off" and the "dirty, stinky unsafe" taxi along with the whole "taxi cartel/monopoly" image. As with any industry that is so established and so fragmented (actually the polar opposite of a monopoly or cartel) around the globe, it would be impossible to not find as many anecdotes as needed to back up whatever generalization you need to promote for your particular purpose.
> 
> Uber has done this in an amazing way in order to accomplish two things, one, to turn the public their way quickly through this guerrilla marketing campaign (we are better cheaper friendlier and... did we mention cheaper???) and two, to keep the troops (drivers) inline without much training effort at all by instead tapping into their pride, their ego, to create a false sense of superiority even among clueless newbies with the ever-present implied message that "Hey, I'm an Uber driver so therefore by definition I am BETTER than a stinky cab driver! I need to go out there and do everything Uber says to make sure people KNOW it, and give me 5 stars!".
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

hanging in there said:


> The most successful dis-information campaign Uber has ever pulled off is the stereotype of the "horrible" taxi driver "ripping you off" and the "dirty, stinky unsafe" taxi along with the whole "taxi cartel/monopoly" image. As with any industry that is so established and so fragmented (actually the polar opposite of a monopoly or cartel) around the globe, it would be impossible to not find as many anecdotes as needed to back up whatever generalization you need to promote for your particular purpose.
> 
> Uber has done this in an amazing way in order to accomplish two things, one, to turn the public their way quickly through this guerrilla marketing campaign (we are better cheaper friendlier and... did we mention cheaper???) and two, to keep the troops (drivers) inline without much training effort at all by instead tapping into their pride, their ego, to create a false sense of superiority even among clueless newbies with the ever-present implied message that "Hey, I'm an Uber driver so therefore by definition I am BETTER than a stinky cab driver! I need to go out there and do everything Uber says to make sure people KNOW it, and give me 5 stars!".
> 
> ...


I've noticed the long time cab drivers
Are doing fine 
The bad , inexperienced , inefficient , stinky etc.
Are ones dying ( they had it coming)
The Good taxi drivers are not going anywhere 
They actually had a clean out 
Thanks to uber 
But uber can't seen to take them out 
Actually they are outlasting the average uber driver.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

observer said:


> You had me agreeing to everything you wrote until your last statement.
> 
> I haven't been in a taxi in a few years but my experiences with them (Los Angeles, Oakland, San Francisco, San Jose, Tijuana, Guadalajara, Mexico City) have all been good.
> 
> ...


It's not about how clean the car or how nice the driver is.
*It's about accessibility and cost.*
TNCs wouldn't exist in most markets today if cab companies had moved off their collective duffs two decades ago to better serve the suburbs, better serve college communities, better serve outlying areas... just better serve all over. But without competition, there was no incentive for the medallion holders, the cab companies (and to a lessor degree, the drivers) to provide better or at least MORE service.

They were limited in many cities to the nummber of cars they could put on the road - crossing city boundaries often made it a regulation headache... and they had more than enough business to keep cars running 24/7 just doing hotels, businesses, airports, etc. Hard to blame them... the cost of providing broader, wider and deeper service, under the regs and rate limits would probably have been unprofitable - but that's kind of the point... the industry should have forced municipalities to take a wider view of changing transportation needs instead of sitting on their duffs. THEY were the experts... they knew what and who was being underserved.

Along come TNCs - ignoring the rules and regs and in some cases, laws...
and suddenly you can get a car-for-hire in every suburban and outlying area of every major city - at less than the cost of a cab (due to artificailly low pricing by the TNCs).


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

stuber said:


> Owner/drivers are usually the best taxis. To save their industry, taxi fleet companies should aggressively move away from the weekly lease model, and towards the owner/driver model.
> 
> Medallions should really only be owned by drivers--not fleets.
> 
> Radio dispatch or smartphone based dispatch like UBER should, ideally, be just a subscription service that independent contractors purchase. There's no real reason to have UBER or a taxi company involved with anything other than dispatch.


I entered the Cab game back in 1986 here in Sydney. Missing out by one year the Government Taxi Plate (Medallion) ballot system we had here. Once a driver racked up 10yrs cab driving without major breaches of the transport code, he would be offered a "peak availability " plate to operate between 2pm-600am, at about 30% market cost. After a further 5 years the plate was derestricted and could operate 24hrs for another affordable instalment.

A very simple mechanism to motivate drivers to stick around, do the right thing and have their good service rewarded with a discounted plate.


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## stuber (Jun 30, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> It's not about how clean the car or how nice the driver is.
> *It's about accessibility and cost.*
> TNCs wouldn't exist in most markets today if cab companies had moved off their collective duffs two decades ago to better serve the suburbs, better serve college communities, better serve outlying areas... just better serve all over. But without competition, there was no incentive for the medallion holders, the cab companies (and to a lessor degree, the drivers) to provide better or at least MORE service.
> 
> ...


All true. The TNCs have provided much-needed competition (or could.). But there's strings attached. Lots of strings.

I welcome UBER as long as they follow the existing commercial regulations, operate within the law, and stop undercutting prices with investor's money.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

stuber said:


> ...and stop undercutting prices with investor's money.


I think that's a common misperception. Uber has cut rates to build brand and ridership (and kill-off any competition). Drivers are paid by the riders - with Uber taking a cut. The entire business model is based on shifting the cost of transportation to the driver. I don't believe the "losses" Uber is showing now come from operating costs, they come from invesment in growth, marketing, expansion, legal fees, lobbying, etc. Investors wouldn't be pouring billions into the company if their money was being spent to pay for the cost of the services provided (ie: undercut cab fares).


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

I have lived and driven in L.A. for over 40 years. And I've also lived and driven in Japan for a few years during the 90's without one ticket or accident. But the first few weeks I drove Uber I pretty much tossed all good reason and common sense out the window. I think it was a bit of feeling 'entitled' - like _hey I'm an Uber Driver and have to do what I have to do to pick up the passenger quickly and efficiently.
_
I wouldn't say I drove dangerously, but I did toss some caution to the wind. Then one night I thought, what the hell am I doing? I'm risking a ticket by moving across two lanes to make a right turn because the ping just came in and I'm sitting in the left turn lane...all for $2.40 and/or 5 stars?! REALLY????

When one is new at this game the pressure of knowing the Rider is 'waiting' and they can/will rate you, and a desire to _do a good job,_ can be a bit too much for non-professional drivers. I see myself as a good driver, but a professional one? Nope.


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## gfus9999 (Feb 5, 2015)

The rating IS the PROBLEM. PAX are increaslingly expecting that the driver is to accomodate them in all situations. Doesn't matter where you were when you recieve the request, traffic conditions, major events, police ativity, traffic laws, wrong address, gps screws ups, etc...... You're just expected to find them quickly and without any walking or efffort on their part. THIS IS WHAT CREATES ALL OF THE CHAOS. PAX need to be educated and expections set. NO I WILL NOT BE ABLE to pick you up at the corner of hollywood and highland. No I can not pick you up (or drop you off) at the front door of your restraunt. Sorry, but you may have to walk to/from the end of the block. 

Sounds good but try and implelment just that simple rule of no drop off/pickup on a busy street/corner, uturn, double park, bus stop, or congested area. WHAT HAPPENEDS NEXT? when you make a pax do this? DRIVERs BEST CASE he gets a sub 5 STAR rating. WORST CASE PAX also REPORTS THE DRIVER TO UBER AND RECIEVES A 'DRIVER REFUESED DESTINATION' feedback infraction. 

Until this current culture of 'accomdate at all costs' is replaced with a more resonable give and take envirionment this is only gonna get worse.


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## berserk42 (Apr 24, 2015)

hanging in there said:


> I find it kind of interesting that Raiser only paid out money in about 1/4th of those accidents. That could turn out to be a real story in itself. I suspect that there are lots of drivers/passengers/other affected parties that were left holding the bag, but maybe I'm wrong.


I would love to see more data on this. At the very least, I would like to see this same graph without damages that were less than the deductible. Then the same graph without damages where the driver didn't have comprehensive and/or collision coverage on their personal policy.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

berserk42 said:


> I would love to see more data on this. At the very least, I would like to see this same graph without damages that were less than the deductible. Then the same graph without damages where the driver didn't have comprehensive and/or collision coverage on their personal policy.


Uber will not cover the Uber Driver's vehicle if they do not have comprehensive insurance on such. If Driver only has liability insurance at time of the accident Uber's insurance will only cover the other parties damages. I know this for fact because Uber's lawyer told me this when I had an accident driving Uber. I was not at fault and had my own full coverage insurance. So, I did not need to use Uber's - the other parties covered everything.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

observer said:


> If my damn kids don't like the way I drive, they can walk to school.


My son told me on a road trip that his uncle (who drives everywhere like a maniac) is a better driver than I  Very nearly an ejectable offence but we were a couple of hundred miles from home at the time and his mother at home would not have understood at all.


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## Casuale Haberdasher (Dec 7, 2014)

hanging in there said:


> The most successful dis-information campaign Uber has ever pulled off is the stereotype of the "horrible" taxi driver "ripping you off" and the "dirty, stinky unsafe" taxi along with the whole "taxi cartel/monopoly" image. As with any industry that is so established and so fragmented (actually the polar opposite of a monopoly or cartel) around the globe, it would be impossible to not find as many anecdotes as needed to back up whatever generalization you need to promote for your particular purpose.
> 
> Uber has done this in an amazing way in order to accomplish two things, one, to turn the public their way quickly through this guerrilla marketing campaign (we are better cheaper friendlier and... did we mention cheaper???) and two, to keep the troops (drivers) inline without much training effort at all by instead tapping into their pride, their ego, to create a false sense of superiority even among clueless newbies with the ever-present implied message that "Hey, I'm an Uber driver so therefore by definition I am BETTER than a stinky cab driver! I need to go out there and do everything Uber says to make sure people KNOW it, and give me 5 stars!".
> 
> ...


POST#115/@hanginginthere:THREE THINGS

ONE: Exemplary Post!

TWO: Hoping Ex-Cabbie, LimoCo. O/O
and "Lion of the Southern Hemisphere"
Sydney Uber notices your "Pro-Taxi"
Homily.

THREE: Congratulations on Earning a
Top Eighth of 1% Ranking on the ALL-
NEW Approval Ratings List with an
Outstanding 133.6% Performance!

☆☆ Http://uberpeople.net/posts/338664

Don't forget to leave a Comment, Concern,
Fatwa, Invective or Vulgarity-of-Your-
Choice "In-Thread" so that EVERYONE 
knows how You "Really Feel". Chortle!

Bison Admires.
Bison Inspires!
MerryChristmas from Marco Island, FL.


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