# Medallion owners facing bankruptcy are committing suicide



## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...or-financial-woes-before-hanging-himself/amp/

*Cabbie blamed Uber, Lyft for financial woes before hanging himself*
By Danielle Furfaro and Max Jaeger

March 21, 2018 | 3:20pm

_








Nicanor Ochisor's cab sits covered under snow in his driveway in Queens.Ellis Kaplan
A New York yellow cab driver faced with the prospect of losing his house due to competition from ride-hail apps such as Uber and the devaluation of his taxi medallion killed himself Friday.

It is the fourth suicide of a desperate hack in as many months - and the first of a medallion owner, according to Richard Lipsky of the Taxi Medallion Owners and Drivers Association

Nicanor Ochisor, 65, was found hanging in the garage of his Maspeth home by his adult son on Friday, Lipsky said.

Ochisor had been struggling financially and was on the verge of losing his house in foreclosure, according to friends.

"He said 'I'm old, I'm tired, and I'm not going to make it,'" fellow hack Nino Hervias, 59, recounted of a conversation he had with Oshisor last week.

"He was only making $200 a day working 10 to 12 hours," he said, adding that's barely enough to cover overhead.

Oshisor blamed flagging business to the proliferation of ride-hail apps such as Uber and Lyft, the friend said.

"He was devastated," Hervias said. "He told me there's nothing we can do, Uber has so much money and power. I told him to hold on because we have a different city council today and a new speaker, and they might listen to us."
_


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## Pedro Paramo66 (Jan 17, 2018)

BurgerTiime said:


> https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...or-financial-woes-before-hanging-himself/amp/
> 
> *Cabbie blamed Uber, Lyft for financial woes before hanging himself*
> By Danielle Furfaro and Max Jaeger
> ...


Selfish and arrogant people, they should learn from us that we don't care to drive for charity and donations or less and make a little sacrifices to help others to save money
Lol


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

https://nypost.com/2018/03/21/cabbie-blamed-uber-lyft-for-financial-woes-before-hanging-himself/amp/


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## LuisEnrikee (Mar 31, 2016)

Sucks to have been him .
Honestly I hate that I drove for these companies but when it comes down to it I don’t blame them . I blame myself . He should of tried a different career path .


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

“He was only making $200 a day working 10 to 12 hours,” he said, adding that’s barely enough to cover overhead. “He was devastated.”


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

LuisEnrikee said:


> Sucks to have been him .
> Honestly I hate that I drove for these companies but when it comes down to it I don't blame them . I blame myself . He should of tried a different career path .


He wasn't driving for a 'company.' He purchased a Medallion from the City of New York, whose value was based on the fact that it grants the sole legal right to street hails in NYC. That right was handed off to Uber for nothing, which also has no limit on cars (10x yellow cabs at last count), and the Medallion value collapsed.

He and his wife drove for 25 years, paying off the loan and financing a home, knowing that when they got too old they could give the Medallion to a fleet, which would provide a steady income.

His career choice was fine. The City abandoned him and left him with no way out.


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## Ubereater (Dec 25, 2015)

The medallions, the "Ridesharing" are the con schemes just to benefit a few and can only survive by exploting the third world labor.
Why the cabbies in Berlin can make living driving the Mercs and using all kinds of "innovations" incl. Uber app without the medallions and the "Ridesharing" nonsense ?
Sie sind echte _*Uber*_-Fahrer !


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Ubereater said:


> The medallions, the "Ridesharing" are the con schemes just to benefit a few and can only survive by exploting the third world labor.
> Why the cabbies in Berlin can make living driving the Mercs and using all kinds of "innovations" incl. Uber app without the medallions and the "Ridesharing" nonsense ?
> Sie sind echte _*Uber*_-Fahrer !


Ride sharing is certainly a con, Medallions are not. Medallions are (were) a path to ownership and a great example of the American Dream.

NYC once had the massive oversaturation Uber has now created, no one made any money and it was a dangerous situation for everyone . We've come back full circle.

The only reason Uber can keep going with 10x more cars on the road than necessary in NYC (to keep wait times down) is because their business model is completely false, based on an billions on top of billions of new Venture Capital pouring in which still subsidizes around half of every ride.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

The mom and pop bakeries, the mom and pop butcher stores, the mom and pop vegetable stands all blamed the supermarkets for their financial woes back in the 50's. Kmart, Sears, Toys R Us all blame online shopping for their financial woes. And now the fare for hire industry blames Uber/Lyft for their financial woes. All these new industries had one thing in common. Demand from the consumer. 

The only way you're going to beat Uber/Lyft and maintain normal pricing is to offer a service far superior to their cheap compact car driving, not knowing the area operators. Of course not everyone can afford the $5/mile rates, but target the ones that can and provide exceptional service. We've been in business in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area for nearly 20 years and our revenue has not fallen off at all since Uber started here back in 2012. You just have to find your niche.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

if he was making $200 take home on 10 hours then that's $20 an hour and not exactly crumbs

we tend to spend what we make and unfortunately he got used to make more than that and couldn't take making less

assuming this story is real, apparently they they chose the absolute worst pic in history of this guy and used in the story after almost completely mutilating it


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

uberdriverfornow said:


> if he was making $200 take home on 10 hours then that's $20 an hour and not exactly crumbs
> 
> we tend to spend what we make and unfortunately he got used to make more than that and couldn't take making less
> 
> assuming this story is real, apparently they they chose the absolute worst pic in history of this guy and used in the story after almost completely mutilating it


He lived in Queens in a very modest home. He wasn't making enough to meet his mortgage. What he could make by giving his Medallion to a fleet has been cut in half and his daily take home pay by roughly a third thanks to Uber doing what yellow cabs do without paying for it.


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> The mom and pop bakeries, the mom and pop butcher stores, the mom and pop vegetable stands all blamed the supermarkets for their financial woes back in the 50's. Kmart, Sears, Toys R Us all blame online shopping for their financial woes. And now the fare for hire industry blames Uber/Lyft for their financial woes. All these new industries had one thing in common. Demand from the consumer.
> 
> The only way you're going to beat Uber/Lyft and maintain normal pricing is to offer a service far superior to their cheap compact car driving, not knowing the area operators. Of course not everyone can afford the $5/mile rates, but target the ones that can and provide exceptional service. We've been in business in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area for nearly 20 years and our revenue has not fallen off at all since Uber started here back in 2012. You just have to find your niche.


Kind of tough to compete when the politicians who set your rates are investors in your competitor don't you think? 

Also comparing those businesses going out of business to Uber who gets the opportunity to follow no major rules like cabs it's kind of hard to compete don't you think? 



uberdriverfornow said:


> if he was making $200 take home on 10 hours then that's $20 an hour and not exactly crumbs
> 
> we tend to spend what we make and unfortunately he got used to make more than that and couldn't take making less
> 
> assuming this story is real, apparently they they chose the absolute worst pic in history of this guy and used in the story after almost completely mutilating it


There's a difference between making less and being forced to a situation where you're making less.


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## Beemer (Mar 19, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> The mom and pop bakeries, the mom and pop butcher stores, the mom and pop vegetable stands all blamed the supermarkets for their financial woes back in the 50's. Kmart, Sears, Toys R Us all blame online shopping for their financial woes. And now the fare for hire industry blames Uber/Lyft for their financial woes. All these new industries had one thing in common. Demand from the consumer.
> 
> The only way you're going to beat Uber/Lyft and maintain normal pricing is to offer a service far superior to their cheap compact car driving, not knowing the area operators. Of course not everyone can afford the $5/mile rates, but target the ones that can and provide exceptional service. We've been in business in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area for nearly 20 years and our revenue has not fallen off at all since Uber started here back in 2012. You just have to find your niche.


First of all Uber did not play by the rules set for transportation companies, started in Phoenix as illegal service and then used the Govenor to change the rules in their favor. They contributed heavily to Duceys campaign and when he took office the 2nd week he signed regulation to stop citing Uber drivers. 2nd instance was allowing Uber to pickup from the Airport, city and airport were against but Doug Ducey used his executive power to overrule them, and again changed laws in their favor.

Lets no look into the whole SDC episode and the person who was the promoter....

I do also business in the Valley as Suv driver for vip's and I know a whole lot of drivers and not a single driver is making what he used to make, maybe you're the exemption but I see Uber picking up 75% of the conference guests and most of Scottsdales regulars are now ride share customers. 
Uber is not comparable with regular competition since they only want to play by their rules and bribe and cheat! Retail losing business to e.g. Amazon is nothing new but innovation and technology make that cheaper to operate and the consumer is getting lower prices, not by changing regulations and cutting corners!


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Beemer said:


> Amazon is nothing new but innovation and technology make that cheaper to operate and the consumer is getting lower prices, not by changing regulations and cutting corners!


Of course, Amazon is cheaper. They're cutting the retailer out, cutting the salesman out, cutting the stock boy out, cutting the security guard at the retail store out, cutting the maintenance man at the retail store out, cutting the managers, general managers, sales directors, Vice Presidents and most likely many more indirect jobs with an Internet app. A lost job means lost income tax and unemployment compensation being paid, EBT being given out, gov't aided healthcare being sought after, application for Welfare being filed etc.

What would you estimate the dollar amount in lost sales tax to be with online shopping? Now granted some states do charge sales tax if the origin of sale is in that state, but 90% of goods sold on the Internet are tax exempt.



Brooklyn said:


> Kind of tough to compete when the politicians who set your rates are investors in your competitor don't you think?


Uber SUV is right around $5/mile. They haven't changed the acceptable price for high end. Only the low end has really changed.


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Of course, Amazon is cheaper. They're cutting the retailer out, cutting the salesman out, cutting the stock boy out, cutting the security guard at the retail store out, cutting the maintenance man at the retail store out, cutting the managers, general managers, sales directors, Vice Presidents and most likely many more indirect jobs with an Internet app. A lost job means lost income tax and unemployment compensation being paid, EBT being given out, gov't aided healthcare being sought after, application for Welfare being filed etc.
> 
> What would you estimate the dollar amount in lost sales tax to be with online shopping? Now granted some states do charge sales tax if the origin of sale is in that state, but 90% of goods sold on the Internet are tax exempt.
> 
> Uber SUV is right around $5/mile. They haven't changed the acceptable price for high end. Only the low end has really changed.


That didn't answer any of my questions.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

The rest of these old geezers need to realize, their medallions aren't going to be worth shit in 5 years. Cat is out of the bag, If YOU ARE THAT INVESTED IN SOMETHING, ALL IN, you are a ****ing moron if you are still holding on to it. The end.

stop *****ing, fair this fair that, welcome to the rest of the real world {where people lose their investments}


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

dirtylee said:


> The rest of these old geezers need to realize, their medallions aren't going to be worth shit in 5 years. Cat is out of the bag, If YOU ARE THAT INVESTED IN SOMETHING, ALL IN, you are a &%[email protected]!*ing moron if you are still holding on to it. The end.
> 
> stop *****ing, fair this fair that, welcome to the rest of the real world {where people lose their investments}


You should really educate yourself on how much commitment is involved when purchasing a Medallion in NYC.

This man and his wife worked for nearly three decades paying off a loan to own the Medallion as a means of retirement because it was sold as the *exclusive right * to street hails. And it was in a framework where adding additional Medallions to the market was based on real environmental impact studies and demand. Not merely flooding the City with 120,000 cars (and counting).

The City abandoned their legal obligation to this man, period. You don't sell someone something based on one thing then change that when you feel like it. If you do that, then give him his money back.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> You should really educate yourself on how much commitment is involved when purchasing a Medallion in NYC.
> 
> This man and his wife worked for nearly three decades paying off a loan to own the Medallion as a means of retirement because it was sold as the *exclusive right * to street hails. And it was in a framework where adding additional Medallions to the market was based on real environmental impact studies and demand. Not merely flooding the City with 120,000 cars (and counting).
> 
> The City abandoned their legal obligation to this man, period. You don't sell someone something based on one thing then change that when you feel like it. If you do that, then give him his money back.


Sunk cost fallacy. 
Cat is out of the bag.
Using the medallion as means of retirement funding is *moronic* plan in today's age.

Welcome to capitalism!!! {late stage}


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

dirtylee said:


> Sunk cost fallacy.
> Cat is out of the bag.
> Using the medallion as means of retirement funding is *moronic* plan in today's age.
> 
> Welcome to capitalism!!! {late stage}


That's like saying it's moronic to take out a mortgage and pay it off to own a home.

Same exact thing, except the City broke their contract and left these people with nothing.

Zero to do with 'capitalism.' Polar opposite, in fact.

Good luck with your version of reality.


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

Who needs to buy a home...

When you can rent it...?

Rakos


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## NORMY (Jan 2, 2017)

U.S.A robbed the Russians and Muslims with the taxi medallions.The lions share was owned buy Russian oligarch s.Rich oil guys owned a whack of these s. The one Russian guy ivgeny gene friedman from NYC probaby losted 1 billion.i heard he owned like a 800 plus.When prices were 1.3 millon to 2 million .I think Putin will now take Donald Trumps money he has hidden in russia as retatlition


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## 123dragon (Sep 14, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> That's like saying it's moronic to take out a mortgage and pay it off to own a home.
> 
> Same exact thing, except the City broke their contract and left these people with nothing.
> 
> ...


2007 really showed why you need to be more careful with home ownership as an investment. Home ownership is good to have a place to live but people that leveraged their homes in 2007 and ended up heavily under water realized that you are not guaranteed to leverage your home for retirement.

We might be close to it happening again actually.
https://www.ft.com/content/6174a1f4-208e-11e8-8d6c-a1920d9e946f


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

123dragon said:


> 2007 really showed why you need to be more careful with home ownership as an investment. Home ownership is good to have a place to live but people that leveraged their homes in 2007 and ended up heavily under water realized that you are not guaranteed to leverage your home for retirement.
> 
> We might be close to it happening again actually.
> https://www.ft.com/content/6174a1f4-208e-11e8-8d6c-a1920d9e946f


Your link is no good...8>O


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## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

*Credit union is driving cabbies to brink of suicide: advocate*

https://nypost.com/2018/03/26/credit-union-is-driving-cabbies-to-brink-of-suicide-advocate/

A credit lender's aggressive tactics toward taxi-medallion owners are so extreme that they are driving cabbies to the brink of suicide, an advocacy group claims.

The taxi advocates are begging Melrose Credit Union to work with borrowers and stop raising interest rates, shortening loan terms and demanding balloon payments - especially given the competition from ride-hailing apps.

"Melrose has continued to go after responsible medallion owners who want to pay off their debt but are having a hard time doing so because of the market pressures created by Uber, Lyft and other ridesharing companies," wrote David Beier, president of the Committee for Taxi Safety, in a letter to the credit union. "The precipitous drop in the value of the taxi medallions - going from a high of $1.3 million to a low of $160,000 - is mainly why medallion owners are struggling."

Cabby Nicanor Ochisor, who hanged himself in his garage last week, was a Melrose customer. Friends said he was struggling financially. His balloon payment to Melrose was due in February, according to public records.

"Like everyone else, he believed the medallion would be the retirement for" him and his wife, said fellow driver Dan Nitescu, whom Ochisor confided in before his death. "Now it's worthless, and it got to him."

Ochisor was the first medallion owner and fourth industry driver to commit suicide in the past four months, as the value of medallions has plunged from a high of $1.3 million, in 2011. Many medallion owners who purchased them for lower prices had used their increase in value to refinance and take money out for expenses such as homes, vacations or sending kids to college.

Since the value had gone up steadily for decades, the owners - mostly immigrants - felt secure in borrowing against it, insiders said.

"The taxi medallion used to be stronger than the Rock of Gibraltar. None was ever foreclosed on," said a taxi industry expert who spoke on condition of anonymity. "And suddenly it didn't work anymore."

Many blame Uber and Lyft, which have added around 70,000 non-medallion cars to the roads in the past six years - and the city for failing to regulate them.

"The city should have put a cap on the number of cars years ago," said the industry expert.

Melrose was taken over by the government last year and placed in a conservatorship under the National Credit Union Administration because it was engaging in "unsafe and unsound" practices.

That's when the spiraling situation for medallion owners who are Melrose customers went from bad to worse, said New York Taxi Workers Alliance Executive Director Bhairavi Desai.

"It's more strict than anything we've ever seen,'' Desai said. "They are not negotiating lower interest rates and are now requiring the owners put personal property like their homes up as collateral. This is ruining drivers' lives."

Melrose did not return calls for comment. The NCUA declined comment.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Jo3030 said:


> *Credit union is driving cabbies to brink of suicide: advocate*
> 
> https://nypost.com/2018/03/26/credit-union-is-driving-cabbies-to-brink-of-suicide-advocate/
> 
> ...


Thats terrible.

( but if anyone is absolutely determined, protest by leaping in front of ANY self driving car)


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> The mom and pop bakeries, the mom and pop butcher stores, the mom and pop vegetable stands all blamed the supermarkets for their financial woes back in the 50's. Kmart, Sears, Toys R Us all blame online shopping for their financial woes. And now the fare for hire industry blames Uber/Lyft for their financial woes. All these new industries had one thing in common. Demand from the consumer.
> 
> The only way you're going to beat Uber/Lyft and maintain normal pricing is to offer a service far superior to their cheap compact car driving, not knowing the area operators. Of course not everyone can afford the $5/mile rates, but target the ones that can and provide exceptional service. We've been in business in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area for nearly 20 years and our revenue has not fallen off at all since Uber started here back in 2012. You just have to find your niche.


That's great but I wonder how many other taxi companies around the country have been able to adapt.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

goneubering said:


> That's great but I wonder how many other taxi companies around the country have been able to adapt.


Not many, I'm sure.


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

NORMY said:


> U.S.A robbed the Russians and Muslims with the taxi medallions.The lions share was owned buy Russian oligarch s.Rich oil guys owned a whack of these s. The one Russian guy ivgeny gene friedman from NYC probaby losted 1 billion.i heard he owned like a 800 plus.When prices were 1.3 millon to 2 million .I think Putin will now take Donald Trumps money he has hidden in russia as retatlition


Evgeny is the reason he price went as high as it did.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> if he was making $200 take home on 10 hours then that's $20 an hour and not exactly crumbs
> 
> we tend to spend what we make and unfortunately he got used to make more than that and couldn't take making less
> 
> assuming this story is real, apparently they they chose the absolute worst pic in history of this guy and used in the story after almost completely mutilating it


He was making $200 a day BEFORE expenses.


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## Skepticaldriver (Mar 5, 2017)

These people should turn their frustrations towards uber and lyft hq. Not on themselves. Its sad.


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## Eugene73 (Jun 29, 2017)

NorCalPhil said:


> "He was only making $200 a day working 10 to 12 hours," he said, adding that's barely enough to cover overhead. "He was devastated."


McDonalds and Walfart workers would give they left lung to make this much

i was bankrupt once. i was so happy after. one of the smartest things i ever did. now i got a house a car credit cards that work !



Hackenstein said:


> He wasn't driving for a 'company.' He purchased a Medallion from the City of New York, whose value was based on the fact that it grants the sole legal right to street hails in NYC. That right was handed off to Uber for nothing, which also has no limit on cars (10x yellow cabs at last count), and the Medallion value collapsed.
> 
> He and his wife drove for 25 years, paying off the loan and financing a home, knowing that when they got too old they could give the Medallion to a fleet, which would provide a steady income.
> 
> His career choice was fine. The City abandoned him and left him with no way out.


no investment or business is guaranteed. he took a risk and bravo for him. some ventures make money and some fail. thats capitalism at its finest


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## Tysmith95 (Jan 30, 2017)

In NYC the medallion market became vastly over-inflated about 10 years ago. Medallions should have never gone for anywhere close to a million dollars.

What happened is that it was a bubble that crashed down. For the people that overpaid for the medallions it stinks. But i'd argue that the medallion system was dumb from the start. The city should have expanded the number of medallions to meet demand from passengers. But they did not, and as a result you had a system where taxis would reject trips to places where they didn't like and NYC passengers had issues getting a cab during rush hour. And for a long period of time the outer borough's were under-served (though the green cabs were created to rectify this).

Personally i'm actually for the free market. Currently in Manhattan congestion is too high due to there being too many taxis and ride-share vehicles on the road. In order to mitigate that the city should have some sort of congestion pricing that applies to both ride-share vehicles and private cars. The costs would be passed down to the passenger, much like tolls are today. It works well in other cities across the globe.

And also I hate to break it but this will never be a very lucrative career. I'd say that it never was and it never will be. Heck you don't even need a GED to become a rideshare/taxi driver. All you need is a licence and a clean background check. That lack of barrier to entry means that pay isn't going to be high. To get something with higher pay you need to gain some skill that is sought after. Plenty of tradesman jobs that pay much more then this.



Eugene73 said:


> McDonalds and Walfart workers would give they left lung to make this much


He's giving costs before expenses. After expenses he's basically under the NYC minimum wage. The min wage is 15 dollars per hour in NYC. 15 dollars goes a lot further in flyover country then it does in a place like NYC.


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## SOLA-RAH (Dec 31, 2014)

Jo3030 said:


> *Credit union is driving cabbies to brink of suicide: advocate*
> 
> https://nypost.com/2018/03/26/credit-union-is-driving-cabbies-to-brink-of-suicide-advocate/
> ...Many medallion owners who purchased them for lower prices had used their increase in value to refinance and take money out for expenses such as homes, vacations or sending kids to college.
> ...


And here's their problem...pure idiocy and greed. The exact same thing happened in the run up of home prices back in 2003-2007. People with *paid off* houses were taking out home equity loans up to the full _paper_ value of their homes. With home values increasing double-digit percentage points yearly, they thought they had discovered their own money printing machine by dumb luck. When home prices crashed they suddenly found themselves making payments on an underwater loan and ended up getting crushed in the end. There is only one true collateral, which is cash money in the bank. Never borrow fully against something that can lose value. Some folks think that the value of whatever hot item they hold will never quit rising...that is until it doesn't, and then a crash always follows. Bitcoin, taxi medallions, home values, internet stocks in 1999, tulip bulbs...how many times are human beings going to have to suffer thru this often repeated lesson?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Hackenstein said:


> Ride sharing is certainly a con, Medallions are not. Medallions are (were) a path to ownership and a great example of the American Dream.
> 
> NYC once had the massive oversaturation Uber has now created, no one made any money and it was a dangerous situation for everyone . We've come back full circle.
> 
> The only reason Uber can keep going with 10x more cars on the road than necessary in NYC (to keep wait times down) is because their business model is completely false, based on an billions on top of billions of new Venture Capital pouring in which still subsidizes around half of every ride.


No, medallions have been dream KILLERS for millions of taxi drivers who've been shut out of owning their own taxis by the existence of medallions.

The corrupt medallion system is what gave birth to the even more corrupt uber and lyft.



Tysmith95 said:


> In NYC the medallion market became vastly over-inflated about 10 years ago. Medallions should have never gone for anywhere close to a million dollars.
> 
> What happened is that it was a bubble that crashed down. For the people that overpaid for the medallions it stinks. But i'd argue that the medallion system was dumb from the start. The city should have expanded the number of medallions to meet demand from passengers. But they did not, and as a result you had a system where taxis would reject trips to places where they didn't like and NYC passengers had issues getting a cab during rush hour. And for a long period of time the outer borough's were under-served (though the green cabs were created to rectify this).
> 
> ...


There should never have been medallions in the first place.

The perpetually high rate of Third World immigration is what keeps pay rates down, not the supposed lack of barrier to entry. Many people aren't cut out for driving a cab or doing rideshare, or they simply don't like that type of work, and if it wasn't for the massive numbers of immigrants, the pay would be much higher due to the much lower supply of available labor.


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## Bob fox (May 18, 2016)

Can someone please explain to me why yellow cab drivers Medallion or not don't just drive for rideshare? I understand they pay for Medallion and that's a loss it sucks. But you still have the opportunity to suck it up and use the superior technology of people matching up rides for you instead of driving around in circles looking for $5 rides. Didn't taxis have corner on the market for a long time? Was it not a racket? Here in San Francisco they were a nightmare. They were notoriously the worst in the country. The drivers treated people like crap simply because they could and now it's caught up with them big time. I do have an ounce of sympathy for some of them. I realize some of them are feeding their families etc etc but if that's the case then throw away your worthless Medallion or sell it on eBay for 50 bucks and drive for Lyft or Uber or flywheel even. Or make your own company just like whoever started their own company. There's a thought. Or make something that's even better than Lyft or Uber. Is that impossible? I don't think so. We could have an on-demand ride-sharing service were people bid on the rides. Because I'll tell you what when it's super slow out I'd rather do a $5 ride for $4 and nothing at all. And when I need to be somewhere at 5 p.m., I'd rather be able to click and drag of a rectangle of where I'm willing to work for the next 45 minutes then have to clock out an hour and a half ahead of time to make sure I can get to class in time. These predetermined areas of willingness to drive in I would do for like 80% of pay or something. So there are plenty of issues that need to be solved and people are able to make money off of solving these issues. it's just a matter of hard work and creativity.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

LuisEnrikee said:


> Sucks to have been him .
> Honestly I hate that I drove for these companies but when it comes down to it I don't blame them . I blame myself . He should of tried a different career path .


Idk how old you are but the dude was 65, I am guessing driving a cab is all he knows how to do



Bob fox said:


> Can someone please explain to me why yellow cab drivers Medallion or not don't just drive for rideshare? I understand they pay for Medallion and that's a loss it sucks. But you still have the opportunity to suck it up and use the superior technology of people matching up rides for you instead of driving around in circles looking for $5 rides. Didn't taxis have corner on the market for a long time? Was it not a racket? Here in San Francisco they were a nightmare. They were notoriously the worst in the country. The drivers treated people like crap simply because they could and now it's caught up with them big time. I do have an ounce of sympathy for some of them. I realize some of them are feeding their families etc etc but if that's the case then throw away your worthless Medallion or sell it on eBay for 50 bucks and drive for Lyft or Uber or flywheel even. Or make your own company just like whoever started their own company. There's a thought. Or make something that's even better than Lyft or Uber. Is that impossible? I don't think so. We could have an on-demand ride-sharing service were people bid on the rides. Because I'll tell you what when it's super slow out I'd rather do a $5 ride for $4 and nothing at all. And when I need to be somewhere at 5 p.m., I'd rather be able to click and drag of a rectangle of where I'm willing to work for the next 45 minutes then have to clock out an hour and a half ahead of time to make sure I can get to class in time. These predetermined areas of willingness to drive in I would do for like 80% of pay or something. So there are plenty of issues that need to be solved and people are able to make money off of solving these issues. it's just a matter of hard work and creativity.


It's tough to make a lot less money for the same work. Although I think a lot of suv drivers in my market are former cab drivers.


----------



## Berliner (Oct 29, 2014)

Ubereater said:


> The medallions, the "Ridesharing" are the con schemes just to benefit a few and can only survive by exploting the third world labor.
> Why the cabbies in Berlin can make living driving the Mercs and using all kinds of "innovations" incl. Uber app without the medallions and the "Ridesharing" nonsense ?
> Sie sind echte _*Uber*_-Fahrer !


Because we can!


----------



## Skepticaldriver (Mar 5, 2017)

Merc cabs in europe are stripped down. Not loaded like here in us. Good motors still but no leather


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> The mom and pop bakeries, the mom and pop butcher stores, the mom and pop vegetable stands all blamed the supermarkets for their financial woes back in the 50's. Kmart, Sears, Toys R Us all blame online shopping for their financial woes. And now the fare for hire industry blames Uber/Lyft for their financial woes. All these new industries had one thing in common. Demand from the consumer.
> 
> The only way you're going to beat Uber/Lyft and maintain normal pricing is to offer a service far superior to their cheap compact car driving, not knowing the area operators. Of course not everyone can afford the $5/mile rates, but target the ones that can and provide exceptional service. We've been in business in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area for nearly 20 years and our revenue has not fallen off at all since Uber started here back in 2012. You just have to find your niche.


I"m all for innovation as long as you don't exploit labor, as Uber does.



Skepticaldriver said:


> Merc cabs in europe are stripped down. Not loaded like here in us. Good motors still but no leather


Isn't diesel a lot cheaper over there? I thought that was the big reason they used them.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> I"m all for innovation as long as you don't exploit labor, as Uber does.


Fare for hire is nothing new. It's been around since the stage coach days of the 1800's. I didn't know that ordering a ride from the push of a button instead of talking to a human was innovation. I suppose the push button telephone was such a great innovation compared to the rotary dial phone.

Exploit labor? You're not the only one, but people speak of the UberX platform as if it's been around for decades taking advantage of hard working individuals. UberX is barely 4 years old with 95% of its drivers never clocking 1 mile in the fare for hire industry before Uber. Uber is not exploiting labor. Uber is capitalizing on ignorance. Big difference.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Eugene73 said:


> no investment or business is guaranteed. he took a risk and bravo for him. some ventures make money and some fail. thats capitalism at its finest


Nope. The City abandoned the underlying contract of what a Medallion is. That's corruption at it's finest.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Hackenstein said:


> ..whose value was based on the fact that it grants the sole legal right to street hails in NYC. That right was handed off to Uber for nothing


Listen I am not an Uber fan by any means, but the street hail argument you keep trying to make is a complete fail.

Neither Uber nor lyft do street hails.

Rides are facilitated through the apps.

Neither Uber, or Lyft drivers are supposed to pickup street hails, or people walking out of buildings, or physically on the streets and flagging down a ride.

That is still the complete purview of Taxi cabs as far as I know.

The fact that pax are choosing to use the apps to facilitate their pickups, either on, or off the streets does not constitute street hails, but rather curated ridership through the apps of their choice, just as if someone called green or yellow cab service, and requested a dispatch to their location.



Rakos said:


> Who needs to buy a home...
> 
> Rakos


Come to think of it, who needs a home when you're an ant, or a monkey right?

And as a bonus just for you Rakos "Monkey see, ant takes, and Uber takes all of that."


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Wonkytonk said:


> Listen I am not an Uber fan by any means, but the street hail argument you keep trying to make is a complete fail.
> 
> Neither Uber nor lyft do street hails.
> 
> ...


Of course they do street hails. They're virtual street hails.

People step onto the street with a phone, see cars moving around in real time on the app, press a button, and get a car.

When there are 130,00 cars and counting, wait times are barely a concern.

Even the judge who first ruled on the case Weiss twisted himself in knots trying to justify it.

First he dismissed the case outright based on Uber being 'pre-arranged.'

On appeal, he created the most ridiculous absurdity possible to justify it.

Quote: 'Uber is an immediate livery for people who have *not *pre-arranged rides.'

Say what?

Sorry, that's a taxi.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Hackenstein said:


> Of course they do street hails. They're virtual street hails.


No bro they're not "virtual" street hails. They're no more virtual street hails as calling to have a cab dispatched to you.

Street hails don't involve the use of a phone or cell phone.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Wonkytonk said:


> No bro they're not "virtual" street hails. They're no more virtual street hails as calling to have a cab dispatched to you.
> 
> Street hails don't involve the use of a phone or cell phone.


It's just semantics. They function exactly like virtual street hails and are used as such all day every day.

The fact that they're allowed to flood NYC with an unlimited number of cars makes it no different than a street hail.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Hackenstein said:


> It's just semantics. They function exactly like virtual street hails and are used as such all day every day.


Nope. Sorry it's not just semantics. One is a street hail the other is a curated dispatched ride request using a phone app not much different than dialing a cab company and requesting they dispatch a cab to your location for a pickup. The only difference being the app is a lot more efficient and easier to use. That the cost of the ride, the length of time it takes to get a ride, and overall quality of the experience compared to cab service are all reasons why riders keep choosing to use those apps over actually hailing down a cab on the street. Hell in many cases minorities, especially blacks, played hell trying to hail a cab on the street in cities like New York. Given all of that are you really surprised people are choosing to use the apps instead of actual street hails.


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## 123dragon (Sep 14, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> Of course they do street hails. They're virtual street hails.
> 
> People step onto the street with a phone, see cars moving around in real time on the app, press a button, and get a car.
> 
> ...


So how far in advance do I need to call to pre-arrange? If I order a pizza through an app and go pick it up, is that pre-arranged or is it the same as ordering at the counter?


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Wonkytonk said:


> Nope. Sorry it's not just semantics. One is a street hail the other is a curated dispatched ride request using a phone app not much different than dialing a cab company and requesting they dispatch a cab to your location for a pickup. The only difference being the app is a lot more efficient and easier to use. That the cost of the ride, the length of time it takes to get a ride, and overall quality of the experience compared to cab service are all reasons why riders keep choosing to use those apps over actually hailing down a cab on the street. Hell in many cases minorities, especially blacks, played hell trying to hail a cab on the street in cities like New York. Given all of that are you really surprised people are choosing to use the apps instead of actual street hails.


Please. It's nearly instantaneous. It vastly different than calling a company. The difference is the lack of wait time.

It's a street hail where you see the car on a screen, and it can see your hand from 10 blocks away (more like 2 blocks away with 130,000 cars). Functions exactly like a street hail.

The cost, quality bla bla bla are based on the fact that Uber pays for nothing.

Uber drivers routinely get around picking up minorities, don't even go there.

Ehail itself should only have been put in real cabs, period.



123dragon said:


> So how far in advance do I need to call to pre-arrange? If I order a pizza through an app and go pick it up, is that pre-arranged or is it the same as ordering at the counter?


There should have been a 20-30 minute wait time mandated. It was done in Europe. Can't recall where, or if Uber bailed out or bought their way around it.

You don't sell the right to street hails for Millions then let anyone do it with an app.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Hackenstein said:


> Please. It's a nearly instantaneous. It vastly different than calling a company. The difference is the lack of wait time.
> 
> It's a street hail where you see the car on a screen, and it can see your hand from 10 blocks away. Functions exactly like a street hail.


You're describing a virtue of the app, one of the major virtues of the app, and one that's high on the list of reasons riders use the app in an attempt to support an absurd thesis that it's a street hail.

A street hail that can occur from the privacy of their homes, in their offices, gyms, pretty much where ever they happen to be not on the street, and calling that a street hail, that's absurd.

Not only that but it's just as absurd to insist that using the apps to call a ride when you're physically on the street is the same thing as a street hail, or virtually the same thing as not using a phone, or cell phone to hail down a cab that's present or passing by without a rider.

There is a difference and wanting the two to be the same to make at best a spurious claim of virtual similarity is, again, absurd.

Requesting a ride from a dispatch service is not the same thing as hailing a cab down on the street.

You're trying to insist in app requested ride dispatches are street hails in order to avoid your real problem that riders are choosing not to actually hail cabs on the street. That's not uber's fault, and it's not uber, or lyft driver's faults either. Well it is in the sense that riders are in app hailing them for rides over street hailing cabs, and calling for cabs because riders find the value proposition in doing so in terms of time, cost, and overall experience all beneficial over cabs and cab drivers.

That's far more an indictment of cabs and cab drivers than lyft or uber drivers.

I would say maybe focus on that if you want to start getting actual street hails again, but really I think the ship has sailed on that one. I doubt it's ever going to be the same for cab drivers on street hails again.

But then that's largely a monster of the cab industries own making really.

You can keep trying to insist that using the apps to have a ride dispatched to a rider is the same as a street hail, but really nobody but cab drivers are likely to buy that argument since it's obviously a false comparison, and just factually inaccurate as all hell.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Wonkytonk said:


> You're describing a virtue of the app, one of the major virtues of the app, and one that's high on the list of reasons riders use the app in an attempt to support an absurd thesis that it's a street hail.
> 
> A street hail that can occur from the privacy of their homes, in their offices, gyms, pretty much where ever they happen to be not on the street, and calling that a street hail, that's absurd.
> 
> ...


It's routinely done on the street. Whether it's possible to do it from somewhere else is irrelevant.

If it were only used from the home/office, a mandatory 20-30 minute wait time would be no problem. It's not.

It's hilarious to watch Uber drivers blame the cab industry. Uber is a ********* with an app. They subsidize 50% of every ride with an endless stream of Billions in venture capital because it's a false model with artificial prices. They're only in it to bankrupt legitimate business then charge whatever they want.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Hackenstein said:


> You don't sell the right to street hails for Millions then let anyone do it with an app.


Street hails aren't done in an app what you're describing there is someone requesting a driver be dispatched to them, that's not a street hail.

Cab drivers still have the monopoly on street hails. It's nobody's fault but the cab drivers and the industry in general mostly that riders are choosing not to hail cabs on the street.

Well maybe uber and lyft share some of the blame in their rate drop race to the bottom, but their drivers aren't at fault for any of it. Cab drivers share a large share of the burden though.



Hackenstein said:


> It's routinely done on the street. Whether it's possible to do from somewhere else is irrelevant.


"It's" what's "It's"?

What the It's you're referring to is riders requesting drivers be dispatched to their location via an app. Get it yet? They're not hailing a cab on the street they're requesting an uber or lyft be dispatched to them just as if one were to call a taxi company and request a taxi cab be dispatched to their location, also not a street hail.


----------



## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Wonkytonk said:


> Street hails aren't done in an app what you're describing there is someone requesting a driver be dispatched to them, that's not a street hail.
> 
> Cab drivers still have the monopoly on street hails. It's nobody's fault but the cab drivers and the industry in general mostly that riders are choosing not to hail cabs on the street.
> 
> Well maybe uber and lyft share some of the blame in their rate drop race to the bottom, but their drivers aren't at fault for any of it. Cab drivers share a large share of the burden though.


Actually, the reason people 'choose' to use ehails is because Uber has been allowed to circumvent all of the laws.

They pay nothing for a Medallion and do virtual street hails.

They subsidize half of every ride with venture capital.

They are allowed to add an unlimited number of cars to the streets (10x the number of yellows at last count).

Ehails should have been the exclusive right of legal yellow taxis, period. The City sold us out.



Wonkytonk said:


> "It's" what's "It's"?
> 
> What the It's you're referring to is riders requesting drivers be dispatched to their location via an app. Get it yet? They're not hailing a cab on the street they're requesting an uber or lyft be dispatched to them just as if one were to call a taxi company and request a taxi cab be dispatched to their location, also not a street hail.


No one is dispatching these calls it's all done instantly electronically.

Their 'bases' are a funny joke.

The lack of wait time makes it function exactly like a street hail. Everything else is semantics.


----------



## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Hackenstein said:


> They pay nothing for a Medallion and do virtual street hails.


I'm not going to engage you on anything but the street hailing aspect of this.

You want app requested dispatches to be street hails so you can draw a connection to medallion sales that don't exist. And the connection doesn't exist because requesting a driver dispatch through the apps is not the same thing as a street hail.

This is a street hail. Cab drivers have the monopoly on accepting them Uber and Lyft drivers can not, and do not accept street hails because they can't the apps don't let them:






This is how you request a driver be dispatched to your location for a ride on uber. As you can see it bears absolutely no resemblance to a street hail, and it bears no resemblance because the two are not the same thing:


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Wonkytonk said:


> I'm not going to engage you on anything but the street hailing aspect of this.
> 
> You want app requested dispatches to be street hails so you can draw a connection to medallion sales that don't exist. And the connection doesn't exist because requesting a driver dispatch through the apps is not the same thing as a street hail.
> 
> ...


It's exactly the same as a street hail.

One utilizes a physical hand, one utilizes an electronic device _*from the street* _ which notifies a car a couple blocks away to pick them up on the street. No real wait time, zero difference.

Except for paying for a Medallion, of course.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Hackenstein said:


> It's exactly the same as a street hail.


No, no it's not. Not even close. I've made my point with video evidence no less.

You're tied to the notion that they're the same in a losing hope to tie uber ride requests to medallion sales. It's not going to work because the two are not the same.

Cab drivers still have the monopoly on actual street hails so cab drivers still have exclusive access to what they were promised exclusive access to when they were sold the medallions - street hails.

You're not getting anywhere near the volume of street hails you used to get because they've fallen out of fashion for a lot of reasons a lot of them having to do with cab drivers, and the industry as a whole.

In any case I'm done here. I've made my point, and it's pointless to keep engaging you because you're financially incentivized to maintain your errant opinion that they're the same thing when they so clearly are not.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Wonkytonk said:


> No, no it's not. Not even close. I've made my point with video evidence no less.
> 
> You're tied to the notion that they're the same in a losing hope to tie uber ride requests to medallion sales. It's not going to work because the two are not the same.
> 
> ...


Keep the blinders on if you have to.

Uber does electronic street hails without paying for them, that is the sum total of why business has dropped for legitimate taxis.

There's nothing to blame aside from Uber's total disregard for laws and ability to buy their way around them.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Fare for hire is nothing new. It's been around since the stage coach days of the 1800's.


Taxis go back much farther than the 1800s.

They had roman chariots for hire with 'meters', a device that put stones into a receptacle, representing distance and money owed for a ride.



> Uber is not exploiting labor. Uber is capitalizing on ignorance. Big difference.


No, Uber is exploiting drivers. The presence of ignorance or the lack of it is irrelevant to that fact.

In other words, if you are being exploited, your mental state is irrelevant to that act.


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## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> Taxis go back much farther than the 1800s.
> 
> They had roman chariots for hire with 'meters', a device that put stones into a receptacle, representing distance and money owed for a ride.


There were also highly regulated taxis on the river Nile in 3,000 BC.

"Medallion" from the Pharoah, approval of the persons and the boats by the priests and regulated rates.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> Taxis go back much farther than the 1800s.
> 
> They had roman chariots for hire with 'meters', a device that put stones into a receptacle, representing distance and money owed for a ride.


I did not know that. I learn something everyday here . And my wife thinks that I waste my time on this forum.



Oscar Levant said:


> In other words, if you are being exploited, your mental state is irrelevant to that act.


However, *EVERY *single Uber/Lyft driver allowed themselves to be exploited. Rideshare driving is not taxes, one does not have to be a driver. And I don't want to hear I had no choice, I needed a career blah blah blah. 95% of Rideshare drivers never drove 1 mile in fare for hire before Uber. In fact, they never even considered driving fare for hire. I guess Uber/Lyft driving is just like the U.S. heroin epidemic. Every day of the year another 160 fools are drawn to the addiction of becoming an Uber driver.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> Keep the blinders on if you have to.
> 
> Uber does electronic street hails without paying for them, that is the sum total of why business has dropped for legitimate taxis.
> 
> There's nothing to blame aside from Uber's total disregard for laws and ability to buy their way around them.


NYC taxis need to radically lower their rates.

Uber has discovered that if you lower your fares enough, the community is better served, and everyone makes more money.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

JimKE said:


> NYC taxis need to radically lower their rates.
> 
> Uber has discovered that if you lower your fares enough, the community is better served, and everyone makes more money.


The heroin dealers think the exact same way. Instead of paying the high dollar for prescription opioids they just bring 2,000 kilos of high grade heroin across the border ever month.

I wonder if the billion dollar drug companies are as pissed off as the taxi medallion owners?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> Actually, the reason people 'choose' to use ehails is because Uber has been allowed to circumvent all of the laws.
> 
> They pay nothing for a Medallion and do virtual street hails.
> 
> ...


The only places where cabs are everywhere is in heavily dense areas. Everywhere else you aren't going to find a cab to street hail except hotels and airports. This is where Uber and Lyft come in as they are in these areas so they serve a purpose.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Suicide is the ultimate personal failure...no matter who or what you try to blame it on.

Suicide is not irrational; it is illogical.

Suicide is all about ME. The suicide runs away from _their_ own problems and leaves survivors to clean up their mess. It ends _their_ problems, but creates huge problems for those they claim to love. It's a cowardly act.


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## 123dragon (Sep 14, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> It's routinely done on the street. Whether it's possible to do it from somewhere else is irrelevant.
> 
> If it were only used from the home/office, a mandatory 20-30 minute wait time would be no problem. It's not.
> 
> It's hilarious to watch Uber drivers blame the cab industry. Uber is a illegal cab with an app. They subsidize 50% of every ride with an endless stream of Billions in venture capital because it's a false model with artificial prices. They're only in it to bankrupt legitimate business then charge whatever they want.


Cell phones existed before uber and people were able to call in rides while walking around the city on the street. I don't see how arguing the merits of pre-arranged benefits cab companies in courts. If you want to amend the law which is what you are describing Europe of doing to redefine what pre-arranged means then that will certainly force what uber does to need to be re-evaluated. In a court of law today if you put this to jury you honestly think someone is going to interpret pre-arranged to have a different definition because automation and the availability of drivers makes it almost as efficient as a street hail is a tough one to buy.

Uber represents an end to end transformation of the supply chain. Hailing a car with an app is one part of ubers service. Uber also:


Provides a streamlined way to initiate a complaint that can be done in less then 30 seconds
Provides a streamlined way to request if something was lost in a cab in less then a minute
Uses historical data to provide a flat fee cost to get between two points that is a guaranteed price
Use historical data to incentivize drivers through boost to operate in certain areas ensuring a more evenly distributed driver base so more customers have access to rides quickly
Has figured out a way to deal with peak demand by leveraging a surge mechanism to increase incentives for drivers to pick up passengers
Has developed a new service for share rides that decrease the cost for passengers in an AUTOMATED fashion for customers that opt to use this service.
Uber has basically done an end to end transformation of the taxi service managing both supply and demand in an autonomous fashion through being able to predict things. Creating an app and allowing people to hail and pay through it is not going to create a competitor to ride share companies. The taxi industry is basically existing in ancient Egypt and still hauling people around in chariots with the innovation it has produce even with apps such as curb.

The plight of taxis is not uber versus taxis, it is a question of the law represented by the citizens that it is meant to serve. The citizens are not going to agree to changes to laws unless the level of service is improved to closer to what uber brings.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

123dragon said:


> Cell phones existed before uber and people were able to call in rides while walking around the city on the street. I don't see how arguing the merits of pre-arranged benefits cab companies in courts. If you want to amend the law which is what you are describing Europe of doing to redefine what pre-arranged means then that will certainly force what uber does to need to be re-evaluated. In a court of law today if you put this to jury you honestly think someone is going to interpret pre-arranged to have a different definition because automation and the availability of drivers makes it almost as efficient as a street hail is a tough one to buy.
> 
> Uber represents an end to end transformation of the supply chain. Hailing a car with an app is one part of ubers service. Uber also:
> 
> ...


The city sold Medallions as the _*exclusive*_ right to street hails.

People put in 30+ years of driving paying off loans to own a piece of the American dream.

Bloomberg's administration went out of it's way, ran up to Albany, circumvented the Home Rule and City Council etc to inject 'ridesharing' into NYC. That was done to intentionally cause harm, for reasons which I've outlined.

Ehails should only have been put in legal taxis and black cars working for physical bases, period. If it created more demand, sell more Medallions and let individual black car bases make the case to the TLC for an increase in cars based on an increase in demand.

The 'citizens' were being served just fine. Especially in light of the fact that the City had just created the Outer Boro green cabs. The poor suckers who bought those Medallions were immediately tossed under the bus too.


----------



## thatridesharegirl (Jul 7, 2016)

As soon as Live workers are dispensed with across many industries, this will undoubtedly become more common.
It's not just drivers.

Automation is coming for a career near you.


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## 123dragon (Sep 14, 2016)

123dragon said:


> Provides a streamlined way to initiate a complaint that can be done in less then 30 seconds
> 
> Provides a streamlined way to request if something was lost in a cab in less then a minute
> Uses historical data to provide a flat fee cost to get between two points that is a guaranteed price
> ...





Hackenstein said:


> The 'citizens' were being served just fine. Especially in light of the fact that the City had just created the Outer Boro green cabs. The poor suckers who bought those Medallions were immediately tossed under the bus too.


Bottom line I've listed a bunch of values I see ride share provide Do taxis cover any of them currently in NYC or do you think they provide no value to the consumer?


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> However, *EVERY *single Uber/Lyft driver allowed themselves to be exploited. Rideshare driving is not taxes, one does not have to be a driver. And I don't want to hear I had no choice, I needed a career blah blah blah. 95% of Rideshare drivers never drove 1 mile in fare for hire before Uber. In fact, they never even considered driving fare for hire. I guess Uber/Lyft driving is just like the U.S. heroin epidemic. Every day of the year another 160 fools are drawn to the addiction of becoming an Uber driver.


If you are being exploited, whether you allow it or not, it doesn't mitigate the immoral act of exploitation, no more than a victim who falls prey to the stockholm syndrome doesn't mitigate the perpetrator's crime.

This is why minimum wages exist, because people, in bad situations are easy to exploit.

I'd quit uber tomorrow if I could. I'm trying real hard to change my situation, but when you're down, climbing out of a hole is not easy, and to say to someone "you allow yourself to be exploited" it rings hollow.

This is why there is a minimum wage, why the minimum wage is just and moral. Similarly, I believe there should at least be a law that compels Uber to compensate drivers for use of their vehicles.

A fool who parts with his money by a con man doesn't exonerate the conman.

Quit blaming the victim, it's like those who say to a raped girl, well, you shouldn't have worn such a short skirt.

Libertarian think, it's whack, and I guess there is no cure for that condition, maybe someday.

.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> Quit blaming the victim
> 
> .


You're right, sorry Uber drivers. I'm sorry that you voluntarily signed up to use your vehicles for as little as $.60/mile. I'm sorry that you did not research any of the facts of driving fare for hire. I'm sorry that you believed everything Uber advertised on the Internet. I'm sorry that you witnessed the commercial on tv in which every Uber passenger seems to be of the best nature. I'm sorry you believe that Uber can be a great side hustle with earnings up to $90k per year. I'm sorry that you did not read the entire terms of agreement before you started driving.

Your post sort of reminds me of boot camp when a recruit says "I didn't sign up for this." The only difference between you and the drill instructor is that you would be coddling the recruit to stay a wimp and endanger other soldiers while the drill instructor would turn that cry baby into a real soldier that will defend his country. Don't worry though the "Kick Me Dog" syndrome only last so long until people have to get a new dog. Drivers will learn. Some more quick than others. I've seen thread titles in here that state "After only two months I quit" and then I've seen posters such as yourself defending their decision to stay driving for pennies a mile by saying I don't have a choice.

P.S. Don't ever accuse me of comparing a girl being forcibly raped to a driver continuing with Uber. You just showed your true ignorance with that statement.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

123dragon said:


> Bottom line I've listed a bunch of values I see ride share provide Do taxis cover any of them currently in NYC or do you think they provide no value to the consumer?


Anything can 'provide value to the consumer.' Taxi drivers paid Millions and invested decades of their lives to own the Medallion, Uber does street hails electronically and pays nothing. What the 'consumer' sees is frankly irrelevant.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> The city sold Medallions as the _*exclusive*_ right to street hails.


The main theme I find here in your posts is this:

some corrupt politicians promised you something
you believed them
you paid them
and you got screwed.
What did you expect? Was it your first day in New York City??? Welcome to politics. Welcome to the Big Apple.


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## 123dragon (Sep 14, 2016)

JimKE said:


> The main theme I find here in your posts is this:
> 
> some corrupt politicians promised you something
> you believed them
> ...


And the consumer is irrelevant. Hackenstein wants the US to be more like the USSR or East Germany in the 1970s or early 1980s. Screw the consumer!


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> The main theme I find here in your posts is this:
> 
> some corrupt politicians promised you something
> you believed them
> ...


Such a tired non-argument.



123dragon said:


> And the consumer is irrelevant. Hackenstein wants the US to be more like the USSR or East Germany in the 1970s or early 1980s. Screw the consumer!


The consumer is irrelevant when all they see is the result of illegality.


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## YouEvenLyftBruh (Feb 10, 2018)

Declare Bankruptcy. Jeez.


Where would we be today, if every single time, President Trump, instead of declaring bankruptcy, he committed suicide instead.


( or does this have to do with the mafia owning those medallions? )


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> Such a tired non-argument.


What's tired is the crybaby stuff.

Uber and its ugly stepchildren offer much quicker pickups, much better cars than pissmobiles, better drivers, and lower cost.

The taxi industry's problems are not those offered by crybabies who claim the world is ganging up on them.

The problems you cite are caused by your former customers -- who you somehow feel are _"irrelevant."_ They've found a better product, and providers who don't think they're "irrelevant" at all. If your whole industry adopts that silly attitude, YOU are the ones who will become "irrelevant."

_Excellent_ taxi companies thrive. Garbage trucks suffer.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> What's tired is the crybaby stuff.
> 
> Uber and its ugly stepchildren offer much quicker pickups, much better cars than pissmobiles, better drivers, and lower cost.
> 
> ...


Unreal ignorance.

The entire 'business model' is based on avoiding regulation and Billions in new VC keeping prices artificially low.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Hackenstein said:


> Unreal ignorance.
> 
> The entire 'business model' is based on avoiding regulation and Billions in new VC keeping prices artificially low.


You should get out of New York, come to Miami, and see how our taxis are thriving. Or go to Orlando (home of the lowest Uber rates in the US) and look at the great taxi company Mears has built.

The taxi _industry_ is NOT unsuccessful. Some drivers fail -- just like every other industry on the planet. Everybody gets to play, but not everybody is going to be a winner. The problem is not the law, the economy, or the alignment of the planets. People fail.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> You're right, sorry Uber drivers. I'm sorry that you voluntarily signed up to use your vehicles for as little as $.60/mile. I'm sorry that you did not research any of the facts of driving fare for hire. I'm sorry that you believed everything Uber advertised on the Internet. I'm sorry that you witnessed the commercial on tv in which every Uber passenger seems to be of the best nature. I'm sorry you believe that Uber can be a great side hustle with earnings up to $90k per year. I'm sorry that you did not read the entire terms of agreement before you started driving.
> 
> Your post sort of reminds me of boot camp when a recruit says "I didn't sign up for this." The only difference between you and the drill instructor is that you would be coddling the recruit to stay a wimp and endanger other soldiers while the drill instructor would turn that cry baby into a real soldier that will defend his country. Don't worry though the "Kick Me Dog" syndrome only last so long until people have to get a new dog. Drivers will learn. Some more quick than others. I've seen thread titles in here that state "After only two months I quit" and then I've seen posters such as yourself defending their decision to stay driving for pennies a mile by saying I don't have a choice.
> 
> P.S. Don't ever accuse me of comparing a girl being forcibly raped to a driver continuing with Uber. You just showed your true ignorance with that statement.


What a load of crap -- false comparisons, strawman arguments, logical fallacies, and the stench of self-righteous indignation on parade.

I wasn't comparing you to a rapist, I was using an extreme example to drive home the point that blaming the victim
doesn't mitigate the wrongful act. You need to stop projecting your emotions into the text, and pay
close attention to what I'm actually expressing.

The issue is exploitation, it's not about you are your feelings about drivers who complain, or whether
they measure up to your lofty standards of how a driver should be, none of that red herring nonsense
has any bearing on exploitation, it doesn't mitigate the fact that it's wrong.

Try as you might, but there really is no other consideration to it.



JimKE said:


> NYC taxis need to radically lower their rates.
> 
> Uber has discovered that if you lower your fares enough, the community is better served, and everyone makes more money.


I hope that is sarcasm, because it you are serious, you are wrong.

Proof provided upon request.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

JimKE said:


> You should get out of New York, come to Miami, and see how our taxis are thriving. Or go to Orlando (home of the lowest Uber rates in the US) and look at the great taxi company Mears has built.
> 
> The taxi _industry_ is NOT unsuccessful. Some drivers fail -- just like every other industry on the planet. Everybody gets to play, but not everybody is going to be a winner. The problem is not the law, the economy, or the alignment of the planets. People fail.


Yuppers...

You really think Mickey Mouse is gonna let a stinky Piss mobile with queue up at the Magic Kingdom..

And by the way... Mears still Kicks A because they have faster pickup times than Uber/lyft do on Disney property. Universal property to..

How does that work?

ZERO is much faster than 5 minutes for an uber.









(as i look at this pic i realize this isn't the magic Kingdom, it's Disney Hollywood studios)

These taxis are both 2014 or newer, as is number 3 in line behind them.
There's some 2012s around but they are the clunkers of the fleet.

I see clean shiny cab queued up waiting to take the next person in line...
Smelly piss mobile?
Nah...
Not hardly.

A little bit of quality control goes a long way to making a pleasant experience for your customer. Some companies got it, some companies don't.

(and Monday morning i watched someone get fired at the shop for playing "_*My credit card machine is broken*_" game.

Fricken idiot...


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## Failed Login (Nov 13, 2017)

How is Uber different from the black car/livery services that have been around in NYC for decades? I have never seen anyone street hail an Uber, so I don't see this as the city/state selling medallion owners a bill of goods. Street hailing and scheduling/booking a ride online or via phone call are two different businesses. Livery services have always been restricted to carrying scheduled riders. Based on these designations, the livery drivers are the ones that got screwed. I used black cars every week to get to and from LGA until I started using Uber. I haven't used a taxi (street hail) in many years. In my simple mind, I don't see that taxi's have had their exclusivity for street hail business. And if I'm thinking correctly, in 2013, NYC gave taxi companies the ok to accept rides via scheduling, and also sold 18,000 livery street-hail permits. I think the livery owners should be at odds with Uber, not taxis. But take that with a grain of salt as I only ride in NY, and chat up my livery and Uber drivers over the years.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Failed Login said:


> How is Uber different from the black car/livery services that have been around in NYC for decades? I have never seen anyone street hail an Uber, so I don't see this as the city/state selling medallion owners a bill of goods. Street hailing and scheduling/booking a ride online or via phone call are two different businesses. Livery services have always been restricted to carrying scheduled riders. Based on these designations, the livery drivers are the ones that got screwed. I used black cars every week to get to and from LGA until I started using Uber. I haven't used a taxi (street hail) in many years. In my simple mind, I don't see that taxi's have had their exclusivity for street hail business. And if I'm thinking correctly, in 2013, NYC gave taxi companies the ok to accept rides via scheduling, and also sold 18,000 livery street-hail permits. I think the livery owners should be at odds with Uber, not taxis. But take that with a grain of salt as I only ride in NY, and chat up my livery and Uber drivers over the years.


Uber's do get hailed on the street in NYC.

It happens and unlike most places it's not an issue of insurance, just regulations. All the NYC uber drivers are required to have 24/7 insurance unlike most of the country.

If i was a NYC uber driver i would be accepting street hails.. totally serious.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...r-cabs-picking-street-fares-article-1.2591233

_Taxi and Limousine Commission summons data shows that cars tied to Uber bases are among the worst offenders for illegal street pickups, with 2,825 tickets issued between the start of 2015 and this year, through March 4._

That's from 2015... there's a TON more uber cars on the road compared to 2015.

Personally i see it a LOT in Orlando, except here the insurance is a problem. Especially in the tourist areas, like the theme parks and what not.

I get drop and loads all the time working the tourist areas.. and when i was doing uber i had to refuse people all the time...

"It's gotta be through the app"

"But i have cash"

....

it happens especially where it's easy to find cars. It won't happen in many many cities and in others it may only happen in a few small areas, but it happens.


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## Koolbreze (Feb 13, 2017)

Hackenstein said:


> You should really educate yourself on how much commitment is involved when purchasing a Medallion in NYC.
> 
> This man and his wife worked for nearly three decades paying off a loan to own the Medallion as a means of retirement because it was sold as the *exclusive right * to street hails. And it was in a framework where adding additional Medallions to the market was based on real environmental impact studies and demand. Not merely flooding the City with 120,000 cars (and counting).
> 
> The City abandoned their legal obligation to this man, period. You don't sell someone something based on one thing then change that when you feel like it. If you do that, then give him his money back.


Rideshare is not street hailed


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Koolbreze said:


> Rideshare is not street hailed


A lot of uber drivers are taking street hails...

Too much temptation.

Read my post on the subject..



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Uber's do get hailed on the street in NYC.
> 
> It happens and unlike most places it's not an issue of insurance, just regulations. All the NYC uber drivers are required to have 24/7 insurance unlike most of the country.
> 
> ...


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## driverdoug (Jun 11, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> A lot of uber drivers are taking street hails...
> 
> Too much temptation.
> 
> Read my post on the subject..


The problem with cash fares is there is no insurance in effect for the ride


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## polar2017 (Jul 1, 2017)

Another one down.
https://nypost.com/2018/06/15/another-cash-strapped-nyc-cabbie-commits-suicide/


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

This Really is Terrible !


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## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

Uber destroys everything in its path.


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

LuisEnrikee said:


> Sucks to have been him .
> Honestly I hate that I drove for these companies but when it comes down to it I don't blame them . I blame myself . He should of tried a different career path .


Like Lyft or Uber and still lose everything he owns. You should be condemning the corruption of rideshare companies and our crooked politicians


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

driverdoug said:


> The problem with cash fares is there is no insurance in effect for the ride


That stopped mattering a long time ago. Now if only the airport would open up curb hails && let the free market decide.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> His career choice was fine. The City abandoned him and left him with no way out.


Agree


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

suicide is a mental health issue. Millions of people have gone bankrupt and have not killed themselves.


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

Lee239 said:


> suicide is a mental health issue. Millions of people have gone bankrupt and have not killed themselves.


But these people are going bankrupt because of a clear corruption so blatant that it's in your face. It's sad.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Hopindrew said:


> But these people are going bankrupt because of a clear corruption so blatant that it's in your face. It's sad.


Yeah it's sad. It's sad when I had family members work in making fabrics in textile mills or sewing clothing and their jobs were lost too. Let them write their loss off in taxes like trump does. It will be sad for some if insurance companies have to close to create Medicare for all but it will be for the greater good.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Hackenstein said:


> He wasn't driving for a 'company.' He purchased a Medallion from the City of New York, whose value was based on the fact that it grants the sole legal right to street hails in NYC. That right was handed off to Uber for nothing, which also has no limit on cars (10x yellow cabs at last count), and the Medallion value collapsed.
> 
> He and his wife drove for 25 years, paying off the loan and financing a home, knowing that when they got too old they could give the Medallion to a fleet, which would provide a steady income.
> 
> His career choice was fine. The City abandoned him and left him with no way out.


The medallions are BS, owners of them raped the drivers. The market has a way of fixing things. Medallion owners got too arrogant and now they own a piece of tin that the worth has plummeted.


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## Hackenstein (Dec 16, 2014)

Ssgcraig said:


> The medallions are BS, owners of them raped the drivers. The market has a way of fixing things. Medallion owners got too arrogant and now they own a piece of tin that the worth has plummeted.


It's a shame you don't even know there are two types of Medallions. Individual owner-operators worked 30 years paying off loans and had their street hail rights stolen. 'The market' had zero to do with it.


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## Travis Alex (Jan 14, 2018)

Wow this whole discussion literally sounds like a whole other argument that has been floating around for the last decade.

Sounds a lot like the argument of student loans. One side thinks the other deserves their debt and to be homeless and broke for their choice, ignoring the corrupt system and lies that forced them there.

The other feels sorry for them and wishes they could do more to fight it, stand up and be heard.

It's a big yikes to see the same arguments across different industries, and everyone so apt to blame the other without realizing one key thing:

IF your neighbors are broke, that also effects others who are around you. Unless you live in the 1% bubble, are a political figure, or connected to political power, you are NOT exempt from trickle down economics.

Just curious when people are going to realize that when your friends and family, acquaintances and co-workers are poor and in debt, that effects everyone from very small to major quality of life issues. Some of it that doesnt happen right away.

Capitalism has failed the American people, and those angry at people for investing in a career as these madalion holders did is focusing frustration at the wrong people.

You should always have multiple forms of revenue, all eggs in one basket is a poor business plan. However it does not mean these people should suffer at the hands or laws being circumvented or broken. Certain promises made then revoked due to awful corrupt political process.

The old saying goes: Don't hate the player, hate the game.


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## BetterGet5Stars (Dec 16, 2017)

uber execs decided to throw most of the rides to select 1/3 of drivers with new app.
i get underserved bad rating from blacks as do many white drivers. whereas white riders go out of their way to.leave 5 stars for blacks who don't rape them.

so now we get boxed out of the good money for this stupid management idea nobody needed. just for being white.

ahhh lovin this 5th class citizenship.


BetterGet5Stars said:


> uber execs decided to throw most of the rides to select 1/3 of drivers with new app.
> i get underserved bad rating from blacks as do many white drivers. whereas white riders go out of their way to.leave 5 stars for blacks who don't rape them.
> 
> so now we get boxed out of the good money for this stupid management idea nobody needed. just for being white.
> ...


 This is a completely unneeded evil spirited move to create an inequity among the two-thirds of the drivers who are probsbly in dire need c of b the money.

All just so these people can feel like they're doing something to deserve their billions of dollars they get to spend for doing something or were quite sure

People always had the choice to turn down a driver with a low rating there was no need to do this.

I'm looking at the ratings on this damn new app all the Real ratings are one and two stars and then there's millions of fake 5 star ratings.

I mean how come these execs don't get rated because you know I'm pretty sure that get about a 1 or 2 star rating


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## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

dirtylee said:


> That stopped mattering a long time ago. Now if only the airport would open up curb hails && let the free market decide.


And it will matter again. Just a matter of time.


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