# So how much can I make driving for Uber?



## Disgruntled (Nov 10, 2016)

I've been doing some math in my head and wanted to get it out on paper so I'll do it right here in this thread.

I've only been poking around this site for a couple of days but I've already learned a lot. There are very few people who are happy with what they make. I guess I have to define happy as "not complaining nearly enough." These happy folks are saying they gross about $1000 a week. Lets look at the income first and I'll go by months to keep it simple which would cover someone taking a few weeks off anyway:

$4000 ($1000 a week x 4).
Now subtract 25% for Uber. Some only have to pay 20% but new people pay 30% now I hear so 25% makes a good guess.
$4000 - 25% = $3000.
Let's subtract a modest 22% to cover all deductions. I'll be too high on some of these number so maybe that's too low (I'm sure it is too low for NYC but I'm really thinking nationwide average here) but I know the final tally will be close enough.
$3000 - 22% = $2340
Assuming 50,000 miles driven to make $4000 a month let's subtract $400 a year for tires and $250 for oil changes if you go 5K between changes.
$650 / 12 = $54.17. $2340 - $54.17 = $2285.83. I didn't go with a complete maintenance figure because that can vary wildly and I will address that below. I'm going to figure gas at $2.40 a gallon and 23 mpg for the vehicle. 50,000 miles / 23mpg = 2173.91 gallons / 12 = 181.15 gallons x $2.40 a gallon -$434.78 a month.
$2285.83 - $434.78 = $1851.05 a month net.

I'm going to assume a full time 40 hour week to make all of the above happen but that too can vary wildly. I just divided 50000 miles by an average speed of 25mph to come up with 2000 hours. I'm actually giving Uber the benefit of the doubt here because chances are you'd have to work 200 hours a month or more to make $1000 a week in most markets but I'm going to stick with a 40 hour week for this exercise.

$1851.05 / 160 hours = $11.57 per hour.

So who here is okay with $11.57 an hour? Fine. Who here thinks they're really making that $11.57 an hour? Okay hands down because you're all very, very wrong. You need to factor in the cost of the car. Even a hearty car with a great track record for reliability isn't going to last more than 3 years at that level of use. You can argue that your Camry has 225,000 miles on it and still going strong but a car with that many miles is going to drag your rating down to the point where Uber will suspend you. So I'm going to argue that a car for Uber would cost about $27,000. That will get you a nice Accord, Camry, Optima, Fusion, etc.
$27000 / 3 years = $9000 a year.
$9000 / 12 to make it monthly for my exercise = $750 (notice I didn't add for loan interest).
$1851.05 - $750 = $1101.05.
$1101.05 / 160 hours = $6.88 per hour.

Many of you who had their hands up earlier are saying "hey mr. smarty pants, self proclaimed expert who quit after one day, I already OWN my car and it's paid off so I'm back up to $11.57 an hour, so there, HA!" Well, no, you're really not. Again, add 150,000 miles to your car and you're going to be buying another one. This is why I didn't include maintenance. You can try to buy used or you can try to keep running and running that same old car but it will eventually catch up with you.

If you think my figures are wrong, they may be but I bet I was being too conservative on some of those estimates. Does your car get 40 miles a gallon? Great, plug in your numbers and see how little difference it makes in the end. Does your car get 17 miles a gallon? Oops, you're that much worse off. Did you pay more than $27000 for the car you're using? Oops. Did you pay less or maybe even you buy a new one every two years regardless? No matter, the additional miles will eventually catch up and cost you an additional car.

You can figure your own or use somebody else's best guess at maintenance costs. I've seen $750 a year and I'm sure that's a good guess. The problem is the $750 a year might cover it but at some point you will burn up your car and have to buy another one. You can't escape this and it's the largest cost everyone seems to be missing. Even if you get the cost of maintaining your car down to half you're still only making slightly above federal minimum wage. As of today Uber is worth $67,500,000,000 and they made it on the backs of all of you guys here. Think about that for a minute. A young company that made an app and has a few dozen to maybe a few hundred actual employees is worth that much already. They produce nothing . . . except money from your pockets.


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## Andrew Hammond (Sep 22, 2015)

I couldn't read your whole post because I started to get a headache. It depends where you are driving, are you in NYC? If you are you have to be TLC licensed which I tried doing and took 4+ months. I relocated to Boston and now am doing uber and Lyft full time. If I do 50 hours a week, after Uber and Lyfts cut I make roughly $1200 each week. Track your miles and you can deduct them. I save 35% for tax season so net earnings each month is about $3120. Of course you have factor in depreciation of your car and gas as well. Pretty happy with it and you can network and meet some nice people. Hope this helps.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

His post was tongue in cheek, he was implying you cant make money with Uber


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Ok my head hurts too much math to figure out......I have up


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Disgruntled said:


> I've been doing some math in my head and wanted to get it out on paper so I'll do it right here in this thread.
> 
> I've only been poking around this site for a couple of days but I've already learned a lot. There are very few people who are happy with what they make. I guess I have to define happy as "not complaining nearly enough." These happy folks are saying they gross about $1000 a week. Lets look at the income first and I'll go by months to keep it simple which would cover someone taking a few weeks off anyway:
> 
> ...


You can make a fortune !
For Uber.


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## Disgruntled (Nov 10, 2016)

Yes, I didn't know we so many fragile heads here! Sorry! Good thing I didn't add in dead miles and what will happen when fuel returns to $4 or more a gallon, which is inevitable. I'm sure Uber will have to raise rates when fuel rises but you can bet they'll resist and lag to inflict maximum pain on their slaves. 

I'm sure there's a sweet spot for this (some certain car and location combo) but even if you find it you're still not going to make that much more than the rest of us victims of what seemed like a good idea at the time.


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## stephan (Aug 25, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> You can make a fortune !
> For Uber.


Exactly you will make uber more richer.


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## gofry (Oct 20, 2015)

Cliff Notes version: You'll make less than $10 per hour driving for Uber.


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## Peanut hello (Sep 19, 2016)

You dont make no money.like the other ants work all day,risk your life for little money or no money. rideshare clears more than you do ,by doing nothing just having an app running. do the math and you figure it out.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

Do Lyft and you will be fine. I drive part-time and make 4K a month and more depending on Bonus and I don't drive far either so I don't change tires or brakes and suspension as quickly as I would need to if I drove full-time. Plus the tips inside Lyft make a great difference in my earnings.


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## gofry (Oct 20, 2015)

*I drive part-time and make 4K a month*

Hilarious!


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

This is from just Lyft alone and I started in February (Not even January), I didn't work much last year and started hitting it in February. If I add Uber it was 4K a month I was averaging and I also have a full-time dayjob so I make about 90K a year total for everything. I have no Life and only live for work, just go home to sleep thats all. My day job is at a surge area so when I get off my day job, it is already surging as other people are also getting off working in downtown Minneapolis.
I pasted it in pastebin because data is too large to paste in here. I also did some find and replace to change my name to my nickname and also add some numbers to the transactions number to hide it.
http://pastebin.com/29ppeBeA
This is my statement from Associated Bank.


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## JanuaryStone (Oct 29, 2016)

Disgruntled said:


> I've been doing some math in my head and wanted to get it out on paper so I'll do it right here in this thread.
> 
> I've only been poking around this site for a couple of days but I've already learned a lot. There are very few people who are happy with what they make. I guess I have to define happy as "not complaining nearly enough." These happy folks are saying they gross about $1000 a week. Lets look at the income first and I'll go by months to keep it simple which would cover someone taking a few weeks off anyway:
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you. I have stopped driving as of 3 days ago. I have been driving in Phoenix for about 5 months, mainly full time at about 50 hours a week. I drive mainly during the day and average $10-17 per hour gross. Once I calculated what all of the ACTUAL costs are, including vehicle depreciation, I realised that I am taking home about $2.75 per hour. Not worth running my car into the ground for 0.5 of minimum wage. I'm sure that in denser markets like NYC or DC or San Fran, it's possible to take home a decent wage, but in most of the markets we are basically willing slaves on the digital plantation. Uber is basically the McDonald's of transportation. Most riders in Phoenix are people who would nrmally take the bus. They are ok spending extra on Uber but not willing to pay double for a cab. This is also why they almost never tip: who tips at McDonald's? 
The reason why Uber will still wrok is that there is always a supply of new eager drivers to "make extra money" just like all of the heavy advertising promices. But the reality is that driving for Uber is almost as profitible as taking cash-advances on your credit card: In the end, you will owe most of it back if you aren't clearing at LEAST $25 per hour in your city. I use Uber and Lyft as a customer and will continue to do so. I always tip $2. I will continue to explore driving averages in different cities as I am planning to relocate to the LA area, but so far I am not convinced it worth it. I'd be making more as a sign-spinner on the side of the road.
Do the real math. Sit down and fully calculate what it costs to drive a car for a living. Many states also make you pay sales tax on every dollar you earn. Here in AZ it's 9 cents on the dollar that I will have to pay back at year-end. It goes on and on. There are many helpful videos on Youtube that fully explain in detail why Uber is a rip-off for most drivers. Do yourself a favour and make the hard calculations without ommiting expenses and rounding-up. Your car will need to be replaced at some point and most Uber drivers don't even consider that one important cost into their calculations. They just run around gleefully posting "I MADE $750 this week!!!" It's this kind of driver that will perpetuate the myth of actually earning a living rideshare driving that will keep the supply of naive drivers ready and willing to slave on the digital plantation, when they'd be making more greeting at Walmart. Not me. Not anymore. I will enjoy the cheap rides though!


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

gofry said:


> *I drive part-time and make 4K a month*
> 
> Hilarious!


Lol, shhh let him live in his fantasy world.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

Lol 


Shangsta said:


> Lol, shhh let him live in his fantasy world.


i just showed half of the proof with Lyft and other half is Uber. i made shit ton this year.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

Shangsta said:


> Lol, shhh let him live in his fantasy world.


It was 4K in Krono and not USD lol. 1 USD equal like 8 Krono.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Ok folks so... if we take the cost per mile off this recently discovered AAA flyer.

http://exchange.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/1950-YDC-Final.pdf
9-15c per mile depending on how many miles driven,

We can take our average paid to unpaid milage ratio of 3 to 1...

that puts our costs at a resonable 27-45c per mile with a driver payout of 48c per mile (Orlando rates)

Let's assume we are driving more than 20,000 miles a year, which brings the rate down closer to 9c a mile.

So for every paid mile we have a profit margin of 19c per mile and 8c paid per minute...

Which means that we are earnin 28c per every paid mile driven at 60MPH and a massive 41c per paid mile driven at 20 MPH.

Which means that if we get just 2-3 paid miles every hour to make minimum wage.

Afterall the minimum wage in 1950 is only 75c an hour.

Isn't it still 1950?

Cause this is the only fathomable way I can make UberX work...


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

They gotta repay all those rich Saudi investors and Ashton Kutchers


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Ozzyoz said:


> Lol
> 
> i just showed half of the proof with Lyft and other half is Uber. i made shit ton this year.


That doesnt show how many hours you are online. We can all make 4K if we drive 60 hours a week.

The uber statement shows how much you made for however many hours you were online.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

Shangsta said:


> That doesnt show how many hours you are online. We can all make 4K if we drive 60 hours a week.
> 
> The uber statement shows how much you made for however many hours you were online.


Im online less and only in evenings. i have a day job, but i did math and im actually making 3k a month partime but saturday and sun i hit it very hard.


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## Peanut hello (Sep 19, 2016)

Ozzyoz said:


> Im online less and only in evenings. i have a day job, but i did math and im actually making 3k a month partime but saturday and sun i hit it very hard.


Good for you , hit it some more..


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## samuraikitty (Nov 23, 2016)

Total newb here, not even signed up. I work minimum wage for someone else right now ($9.80/hr in WA). I don't care if I make more than that by myself, I'm looking to do something where I mostly have to answer to me, set my hours, schedule. That's my issue with working for Walmart or McDonalds, or where I work. I have some medical issues (nothing unsafe to be driving) and some days I'm not up to working like a slave, and while most days I do sometimes I need to take breaks when I need to, not when the manager says I can. I love driving and customer service and don't mind putting in extra time in the car, even making less "per hour" as long as my monthly net is around $2k. I have very low living costs. Most of my costs would be car related ie payment, insurance, wear and tear. I've been reading and reading on here and watching vids like Uber Man and Simple Driver and researching costs and am intrigued but also scared of going to work for Lyft and Uber in the Seattle/Tacoma area from what I read on here. I don't buy into the $35/hr or $3500 wk guaranteed BS. I've been burned by recruiters before and think I'm wiser now. Of course I know that I'm making money for the company more than myself...just the same as I'm doing now or was working for Walmart or McDonalds.

So I didn't know if I should make a new post or join onto this one to find out if after getting the hang of where the hot spots/times are if I can net $2k a month in my area, as a safe and courteous driver who is soaking up everyone's tips and advice and warnings like a sponge and researching until her head is spinning? ;-)


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## crimson.snwbnny (Nov 24, 2016)

why do people join this forum to bash and talk s** if you dont think you can earn money doing uber or lyft then go find a 9-5 at some call center and work like a robot. stay out the forum. i started doing uber because it works with my schedule. i already have a regular 40hr job in IT during the graveyard hours (from home). it pays well. it keeps a roof over my head, bills paid, and food on the table for me and my 2 kids. but thats all it does. we arent poor but we arent living the high life. i can uber when ever i want. if im all caught up on my college homework for the week i have nothing to do all day with my kids being in school. UBER may not pay great especially on slow days. but its extra cash i didnt have before. some say it adds miles and depreciates car. thats something that i will deal with YEARS in the future. but RIGHT NOW i'll do what ever it takes to make sure my kids have a childhood every child deserves. even if it means my butt goes numb driving around lol.


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## samuraikitty (Nov 23, 2016)

I hope you're talking to the others, crimson.snwbnny because I just honestly want to know if I can make what's considered a low wage, around $2k /mo net, working uber/lyft in the Seattle Tacoma area. I am seeing so many conflicting posts that people make "bank" or make "peanuts" but what is bank for someone may be peanuts for another.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

samuraikitty said:


> I hope you're talking to the others, crimson.snwbnny because I just honestly want to know if I can make what's considered a low wage, around $2k /mo net, working uber/lyft in the Seattle Tacoma area. I am seeing so many conflicting posts that people make "bank" or make "peanuts" but what is bank for someone may be peanuts for another.


The truth is it varies from market to market... 7-10 an hour (with 20 miles driven) minus vehicle expenses is sub minimum wage no matter how you cut it... which is why i'm driving a taxi... $2.40 a mile plus tips baby...

http://uberestimate.com/prices/Norfolk/
http://uberestimate.com/prices/New-York-City/

The rates in the lowest market is the US is 60c per mile 12c a minute (Norfolk Virginia).. the highest market is $1.75 per mile and 36c a minute (NYC)...

That puts the lowest market as charging 34% per mile and 33% per minute of the highest market. I understand that it's more expense to operate in NYC but I am guessing you will probobly get more trips per hour in NYC as you will in Norfolk Virginia.


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## samuraikitty (Nov 23, 2016)

Yeah, I get that it varies per market. Seattle probably pays well but also charges high B&O taxes, and I have to have a permit through them to work even in Tacoma through Lyft. I haven't looked into Uber yet...they also work in Olympia whereas Lyft doesn't yet. I was not going to consider them until I found out I really do need my own insurance rider or commercial insurance to cover the gaps in the TNCs coverage, so I would be open to all three cities working for both.

Taxi driving would be a consideration if this doesn't work out. I do like that with ridesharing I don't touch money other than tips and at least the pax have to have ID and credit card to ride, a little more safe than taxi, at least a bit.

Still wondering if I should start a new thread asking for Seattle drivers; advice. Some forums hate same old same old threads but also hate threadjacking, so I'm not sure.


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## OlDirtySapper (Jul 26, 2016)

gofry said:


> Cliff Notes version: You'll make less than $10 per hour driving for Uber.


@56 cents a mile this should be pretty obvious to any cab driver less yet someone with basic.math skills.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

OlDirtySapper said:


> @56 cents a mile this should be pretty obvious to any cab driver less yet someone with basic.math skills.


actually it's as low as 53c a mile for highway miles...
Take Norfolk Virginia numbers...

60c per mile plus 12c per minute
45c per mile plus 8c per minute (minus uber's 25%)

53c per mile at highway speed... (60 MPH)


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## crimson.snwbnny (Nov 24, 2016)

samuraikitty naw i wasn't referring to you.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

I set up a separate bank account to track income and expenses from Uber and Lyft. There's not enough data yet to draw any big conclusions but with Lyft I can consistently gross around $16 an hour (online time) weekdays in a fairly light traffic market. The hourly rate on Uber is lower but that figure is not supportable because of the way I'm driving right now. 

So far Uber and Lyft customers tip at about the same rate, roughly 20% of pax (1 in 5). I'm going to wait long enough to have a statistically relevant baseline before trying an Uber sign from Amazon and changing how I treat pax, then track the difference before and after. Tipping is a tough one because many of my ride customers are simply dirt poor. They're students struggling through school, working part-time and trying to pay rent. Some of my customers...I was tempted to tip them. Others, like the four well-dressed people I took to The Breakers in Palm Beach...screw you cheap ass bastards. You wouldn't think about not tipping the valet parking your Mercedes at the country club, but thoughtlessly stiff the guy taking you to a ritzy cocktail party. If that's you, you're a thoughtless dick. Balance that out with a poor old lady carrying an oxygen machine tipping me a $1 in change for a 2 mile ride. 

The per mile fees can vary quite a bit because of time and traffic. I've had pax payout miles as low as $0.80 a mile. The cut for both Uber and Lyft, for all types of rides, averages out to roughly 25%. The wide rate variability is what makes calculating earnings per mile difficult. In the ride share industry obscurity is not your friend. In many instances in this market, it is not physically possible to make more than $20-$25 an hour. One 23 minute UberX ride paid $10.09. In a perfect scenario, with no pickup time between pax, that's a theoretical max of $30.27 for an hour of wheel time and a $15-$20 max is more realistic. 

There's so much misinformation about what you can make driving for ride share companies and a lot depends on your market. I'm trying to gather data in a systematic way about the reality. Then break earnings down to a rate per mile and per hour after taxes and depreciation. The plan is to write an ebook about ride sharing as a part-time job compared to other ways to make money. If any of the rest of you keep good records over a long period of time and would like to collaborate on the effort, don't hesitate to PM me. 

If you're interested, the working title of the book is Bad Trip - The Truth About The Ride Share Industry.


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## Disgruntled (Nov 10, 2016)

Samuri Kitty she was talking about my post and that's fine because I'm here to help people avoid this disaster because that is what it is. If you really want to drive for a living, there are MUCH better options. Drive for a real cab company. Go to www.indeed.com and search daily for driver positions. If you can't avoid watching the wreck (my analogy for people who can't help it and drive for Uber even when they themselves know how bad a deal it is) then go with Lyft because they allow tipping and treat their drivers better (or so I hear).


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## samuraikitty (Nov 23, 2016)

Disgruntled said:


> Samuri Kitty she was talking about my post and that's fine because I'm here to help people avoid this disaster because that is what it is. If you really want to drive for a living, there are MUCH better options. Drive for a real cab company. Go to ****** and search daily for driver positions. If you can't avoid watching the wreck (my analogy for people who can't help it and drive for Uber even when they themselves know how bad a deal it is) then go with Lyft because they allow tipping and treat their drivers better (or so I hear).


Yeah, I could drive a cab or bus or truck but the whole point of doing rideshare would be being in control of my own schedule, being able to take time off for whatever reason on my own terms and not having to answer to a manager. Answering to my bills, lol. I haven't found too many jobs where you can just drive whenever you want. Maybe if you were an owner operator truck driver, but I can't do the 15 hr crazy shifts, I've tried. Or maybe if you were a one owner cab driver? I've also thought about pet transport. Lyft for sure is my first choice, and then add Uber. I don't need to bank much but I gotta get out from under a manager. When I can work hard I work hard, when I need a down day I need a down day. Plus elderly parents to take care of.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

I've hear the schedule issue a lot and all my Uber rides as a pax the drivers were part-time. If you live in a city where DoorDash is offered, you might want to check that out. $25 an hour and 90% tip rate. Tips are life and I'd bet Uber's position on tips flows from someone who's never worked in a service industry. I had a Lyft customer tell me last night that he preferentially uses Lyft specifically because it gives him the option to tip. 

Pax who don't tip should see their customer rating decline until they can't get a ride. Even if it's only a buck or two, that covers your gas. A more positive way to approach it would be letting customers enter a tip amount when they request a ride. That would insure they get the fastest service from the most experienced drivers. Need a car right now? Put up a $10 tip and watch one appear instantly. 

For me if there's no tip then 4 stars is the best you get.


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## Disgruntled (Nov 10, 2016)

samuraikitty said:


> Yeah, I could drive a cab or bus or truck but the whole point of doing rideshare would be being in control of my own schedule, being able to take time off for whatever reason on my own terms and not having to answer to a manager. Answering to my bills, lol. I haven't found too many jobs where you can just drive whenever you want. Maybe if you were an owner operator truck driver, but I can't do the 15 hr crazy shifts, I've tried. Or maybe if you were a one owner cab driver? I've also thought about pet transport. Lyft for sure is my first choice, and then add Uber. I don't need to bank much but I gotta get out from under a manager. When I can work hard I work hard, when I need a down day I need a down day. Plus elderly parents to take care of.


I too see the schedule flexibility and "my own boss" thing as an excuse to press on and drive but since you're in this thread I assume you at least glanced at my guestimates for true earnings. I'm one of a many who ran these numbers and we all came up with figures no higher than $6.50. That is the high. I've seen some people say they're making $2.50 an hour. You called this a job in your 3rd sentence above but this isn't a job. This would be you trading what's left of your car (the future) for a few crumbs now. It sounds like you already made your mind up so good luck and maybe somehow it will work out better for you. With all of the negativity here I imagine some might even convince themselves it's a mass conspiracy to keep new drivers out. It's not but many will have to find out for themselves.


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## samuraikitty (Nov 23, 2016)

FL_Dex said:


> I've hear the schedule issue a lot and all my Uber rides as a pax the drivers were part-time. If you live in a city where DoorDash is offered, you might want to check that out. $25 an hour and 90% tip rate. Tips are life and I'd bet Uber's position on tips flows from someone who's never worked in a service industry. I had a Lyft customer tell me last night that he preferentially uses Lyft specifically because it gives him the option to tip.


Doordash is here in Seattle, along with Grubhub. Other than the car requirement I wonder what the differences are with Ubereats.


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## samuraikitty (Nov 23, 2016)

Disgruntled, I haven't made up my mind other than I need something different. I guess as a job I mean working for pay.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

samuraikitty said:


> Disgruntled, I haven't made up my mind other than I need something different. I guess as a job I mean working for pay.


Personally.. Knowing what i know...

I know several beggars... professional...beggars... they live in the same building as i do, they never shower, they beg for money, and they clear $10 an hour or better. There are days out-earn me in a taxi... no joke...

Since uber in my market results in a loss on paper, while only generating $7-10 an hour most of the time...

Begging for money is probobly infinitely more profitable and probobly better revenue overall than driver for uber around here.

Just a thought..

You can also make your own hours and be your own boss..


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## samuraikitty (Nov 23, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Personally.. Knowing what i know...
> 
> I know several beggars... professional...beggars... they live in the same building as i do, they never shower, they beg for money, and they clear $10 an hour or better. There are days out-earn me in a taxi... no joke...
> 
> ...


LMAO!!! I'm sure you're right. I'm also pretty sure they don't pay taxes on that. I've got a cute dog, too...


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## Barb Gaslavine (Dec 5, 2016)

As a Lyft driver in LA, I make between $14-$18 per hour in the Hollywood area. Of course there are some weekends that can get me into the $20/hr range but there are so many variables being a rideshare driver and how much they make.


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## Don't Turn Around (Mar 17, 2016)

Shangsta said:


> His post was tongue in cheek, he was implying you cant make money with Uber


You really can't in today's climate.


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## samuraikitty (Nov 23, 2016)

Barb Gaslavine said:


> As a Lyft driver in LA, I make between $14-$18 per hour in the Hollywood area. Of course there are some weekends that can get me into the $20/hr range but there are so many variables being a rideshare driver.


Is that before or after expenses?


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## Truman (Nov 27, 2016)

A person I respect says 15-20$ an hour
-15-20$ an hour in expenses.


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## Barb Gaslavine (Dec 5, 2016)

samuraikitty said:


> Is that before or after expenses?


I don't figure in expenses like car lease and insurance because those figures were present regardless of being a lift driver. Also, expenses like wear and tear fall on the company I leased the vehicle with.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

Disgruntled said:


> I'm one of a many who ran these numbers and we all came up with figures no higher than $6.50. That is the high. I've seen some people say they're making $2.50 an hour.


Without knowing where you live or how you're tracking earnings all I can tell you is that on my slowest ever day, where four out of five rides were Pool, I still made close to $15/hour...actual clock time from when I pulled out of the driveway until I got home. Here's how I track what I'm making:

Rate per mile (varies widely)
Hourly with pax
Hourly total for the day, online and off, with tips
Hourly total for the day, online and off, without tips

Lyft comes out slightly higher but not significantly. In my experience, Lyft riders are not any more likely to tip than Uber riders. That's a problem generic to the entire rideshare industry that really needs an education effort. You wouldn't think about stiffing your bartender for 30 seconds work but thoughtlessly stiff the guy you trust with your life driving you across town for 20 minutes. As we used to say in Texas, that ain't right.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Disgruntled said:


> I've been doing some math in my head and wanted to get it out on paper so I'll do it right here in this thread.
> 
> I've only been poking around this site for a couple of days but I've already learned a lot. There are very few people who are happy with what they make. I guess I have to define happy as "not complaining nearly enough." These happy folks are saying they gross about $1000 a week. Lets look at the income first and I'll go by months to keep it simple which would cover someone taking a few weeks off anyway:
> 
> ...


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

>Now subtract 25% for Uber. Some only have to pay 20% but new people pay 30% now I hear so 25% makes a good guess.

Who here is paying 30%? Anyone? Uber and Lyft are nearly identical at 25%. If they're only taking 20% then there's another level of driver or they've been around since Uber was only taking 20%. 

The level of misinformation is truly astounding.


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## Disgruntled (Nov 10, 2016)

FL_Dex said:


> >Now subtract 25% for Uber. Some only have to pay 20% but new people pay 30% now I hear so 25% makes a good guess.
> 
> Who here is paying 30%? Anyone? Uber and Lyft are nearly identical at 25%. If they're only taking 20% then there's another level of driver or they've been around since Uber was only taking 20%.
> 
> The level of misinformation is truly astounding.


No misinformation from me there, buddy.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-takes-30-from-new-drivers.73575/

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-take-30-hike-is-it-true.13672/

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber...mmission-cut-to-25-30-because-they-can.20526/

Only the trolls and plants pump out the misinformation. But I will give you (and you quoted me yourself) a good average for calculation is 25% commission to Uber.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

Disgruntled said:


> No misinformation from me there, buddy.


Misinformation has a lot of sources, not all of them deliberate. In fairness to everyone, trying to pin down Uber pricing and fees is like trying to nail jello to the wall. Rates vary by region, sometimes by city and service type. I'm baselining my numbers on X. I'll have to find a collaborator for XL numbers. I'm drawing the line at buying or leasing an SUV to run real-world tests.

One of the prized qualities for any business is predictability. If I put in Y number of hours, I can expect to bring in X amount of money (with a certain amount of variability). Getting to a supportable value for X in ridesharing is maddeningly difficult and obscurity is not your friend.


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## Shelby199 (Nov 25, 2016)

Disgruntled said:


> I've been doing some math in my head and wanted to get it out on paper so I'll do it right here in this thread.
> 
> I've only been poking around this site for a couple of days but I've already learned a lot. There are very few people who are happy with what they make. I guess I have to define happy as "not complaining nearly enough." These happy folks are saying they gross about $1000 a week. Lets look at the income first and I'll go by months to keep it simple which would cover someone taking a few weeks off anyway:
> 
> ...


About 7 dollars an hour after expenses


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

samuraikitty said:


> Total newb here, not even signed up. I work minimum wage for someone else right now ($9.80/hr in WA). I don't care if I make more than that by myself, I'm looking to do something where I mostly have to answer to me, set my hours, schedule. That's my issue with working for Walmart or McDonalds, or where I work. I have some medical issues (nothing unsafe to be driving) and some days I'm not up to working like a slave, and while most days I do sometimes I need to take breaks when I need to, not when the manager says I can. I love driving and customer service and don't mind putting in extra time in the car, even making less "per hour" as long as my monthly net is around $2k. I have very low living costs. Most of my costs would be car related ie payment, insurance, wear and tear. I've been reading and reading on here and watching vids like Uber Man and Simple Driver and researching costs and am intrigued but also scared of going to work for Lyft and Uber in the Seattle/Tacoma area from what I read on here. I don't buy into the $35/hr or $3500 wk guaranteed BS. I've been burned by recruiters before and think I'm wiser now. Of course I know that I'm making money for the company more than myself...just the same as I'm doing now or was working for Walmart or McDonalds.
> 
> So I didn't know if I should make a new post or join onto this one to find out if after getting the hang of where the hot spots/times are if I can net $2k a month in my area, as a safe and courteous driver who is soaking up everyone's tips and advice and warnings like a sponge and researching until her head is spinning? ;-)


You'll make more than that net by A LOT. If you have a good work ethic, you'll make decent money. A lot of expenses are fully or partially tax deductible. It's not easy money like the ads might imply (I work long hours, at times where I'd rather be doing something else, lots of nights and weekends, lots of 12 hour shifts, lots of forgoing breaks as much as I can handle it to make sure I'm being efficient with time), but if you want to make money without a boss, and be your own success or failure, it's a pretty decent gig to get going quickly. I make, typically $18-$20/hr... when it's busy I can make more than that. There are zero guarantees. Everyone is working against your best interests, but it's not impossible at all. It's a very oversaturated market, but if you play chess well with other drivers (They are your competition), you can do alright. You have to be very quick to react, because it won't be the same situation week by week, day by day, or even hour by hour. Placing your car in the right place at the right time is basically 90% of the job. Driving people around is just what you do once you've lined up the right customers. That's the time to relax. lol


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

Barb Gaslavine said:


> I don't figure in expenses like car lease and insurance because those figures were present regardless of being a lift driver. Also, expenses like wear and tear fall on the company I leased the vehicle with.


Yep. Exactly. Also... you can write off a percentage of those expenses as a rideshare driver... so you are actually paying a little bit less (kinda-sorta) for them than you would in the way of lower taxes. If I was working for someone else, I couldn't write off ANY of the car payment or insurance.


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

FL_Dex said:


> One of the prized qualities for any business is predictability. If I put in Y number of hours, I can expect to bring in X amount of money (with a certain amount of variability).


I completely disagree with you. One of the biggest benefits of being an employee is that you can have exactly what you described. People who own businesses do not generally have ANY predictability, and there is literally no such thing as y number of hours = x amount of money. Sure, it could be prized, but only because it's extremely rare. If you own a convenience store, and nobody comes into your store for an entire day, it doesn't matter at all how many hours you sit there... you make nothing. That's the big tradeoff anyone makes when deciding whether to work for someone else or themselves. Working for someone else allows you predictability and a shield from ups and downs in business (to a certain extent). Being in business for yourself, there is no such thing. Doesn't matter what business you're in. Business is controlled anarchy.


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## samuraikitty (Nov 23, 2016)

K-pax said:


> I completely disagree with you. One of the biggest benefits of being an employee is that you can have exactly what you described. People who own businesses do not generally have ANY predictability, and there is literally no such thing as y number of hours = x amount of money. Sure, it could be prized, but only because it's extremely rare. If you own a convenience store, and nobody comes into your store for an entire day, it doesn't matter at all how many hours you sit there... you make nothing. That's the big tradeoff anyone makes when deciding whether to work for someone else or themselves. Working for someone else allows you predictability and a shield from ups and downs in business (to a certain extent). Being in business for yourself, there is no such thing. Doesn't matter what business you're in. Business is controlled anarchy.


Exactly. I don't think many people who start their own business, or especially people signing up to be drivers understand this. There are no set hours or guarantees. You can't just go out there and expect passengers. You have to figure out where they are and when they are, and work it like a business. Probably why so many get frustrated and leave, because either they fell for the hype of $35/hr or they don't understand that there will be ebbs and flows and you have to plan them into your expenses/income like any other small business.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

K-pax said:


> People who own businesses do not generally have ANY predictability,


To me that says you know nothing about running a business or doing revenue projections. Without predictability you can't pay your bills or know whether you're going to make payroll next month. Without predictability you can't weigh one option for making money against another (called opportunity cost). Obscurity is not your friend.

If you're going to put in six hours behind the wheel and 5 1/2 hours online, you should be able to estimate how much you're going to make down to an average with a standard deviation. If that estimate is $10 an hour, or less, then you can make choices about how best to spend your time.


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

FL_Dex said:


> To me that says you know nothing about running a business or doing revenue projections. Without predictability you can't pay your bills or know whether you're going to make payroll next month. Without predictability you can't weigh one option for making money against another (called opportunity cost). Obscurity is not your friend.
> 
> If you're going to put in six hours behind the wheel and 5 1/2 hours online, you should be able to estimate how much you're going to make down to an average with a standard deviation. If that estimate is $10 an hour, or less, then you can make choices about how best to spend your time.


Projections are based on data and educated guesses. They aren't really anything more than that. Any business has some degree of risk, based on the market around you. Some market sectors have higher volatility/risk than others, but anything that operates under a free market will be subject to the market anarchy of customers making choices among a million other factors. Your business could suddenly dry up. Competition could move in next door. Someone could eat at your restaurant, get sick and call the news. Yes, you can estimate based on past data and current factors how much you may make... I do that all the time. I know that on a weekend night I'll usually make around $250(ish) and the total does come out to about that. Still. That's not guaranteed. For whatever reason, pax could be staying home on a weekend night. You could miscalculate where you think people will be and end up wasting time trying to get to where the people are instead of making money. There are almost unlimited factors that could foil your carefully crafted textbook projections. They're educated guesses at best. Giant mega-corporations have the same factors to deal with, except for the fact that their balance sheets are big enough to weather market changes... in fact, any well designed corporation will have funds automatically built into their budget to accommodate things like that.

It's not really a business secret that the benefit of being an employee is that you are given a predictable paycheck in return for a certain amount of hours worked. Inversely, it's also not a business secret that small biz owners often work really long hours to keep their businesses going, sometimes even technically 'working for free' if that's what is required. It's all a trade off that exists in any industry. You either want predictability in being an employee, or you're willing to take on the risk to be self-employed. If anyone tries to claim that something doesn't have a risk inherent in it, they're blowing smoke up your backside.

If business were predictable, there would be no such thing as writing SWOT reports in a business plan. You would just plug in all the optimistic numbers and smile with glee as everything worked out flawlessly. If you run a business that's predictable, consider yourself lucky: That is not a given. Most businesses, statistically, fail within the first few years... and the average time it takes the average business to turn a profit can end up being a few years. If anything, Rideshare driving, because you're using an existing platform with a built in customer base (similar to a franchise style business) makes it much more predictable than most small businesses are. Sir Richard Branson, founder of Virgin Records/Galactic/Airways/etc. took on so much of a risk in being self employed that he actually lived in the stockroom of his record shop for a while because he couldn't turn enough of a profit in his business AND afford to rent a home at the same time. He put pretty much all of his money back into his business and now he's a billionaire that's got his own private space program. Go ask him about risk or having a predictable hourly salary. lol His risk taking just paid off... he could have just as easily become a bum on the street or bankrupt and broke from taking that risk. That is literally what being self-employed is. It isn't for everyone, and some people really don't like it as much as they thought they would. If you value getting an hourly salary that's predictable, being an employee might make you a lot less stressed out. For someone with my personality, I get stressed out a lot more without the ability to take control over my own situation, even if the risk taken doesn't work out. I've run several businesses outside of Rideshare driving, and have partnered with MBA grads in various ventures along the way. I aint as think as you dumb I am.


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## SEA-H2G (Nov 22, 2016)

Unfortunately what is predictable with Uber is "skimming" on top. Fare quoted/charged to Pax $35. My top line shows $29. They will adjust, but you have to spend time and have data.


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

SEA-H2G said:


> Unfortunately what is predictable with Uber is "skimming" on top. Fare quoted/charged to Pax $35. My top line shows $29. They will adjust, but you have to spend time and have data.


I'm not arguing against that. Any reasonable business owner wants to pay out as little as possible to third parties, myself included. Juno is actually looking very attractive at this point, since they take only 10% (can't wait till they expand nation-wide). I'm just saying the idea that someone is entitled, as a business owner, to a salary or predictability is not based in reality. It's the wrong mindset in a gig like this. My biggest beefs with Uber are actually areas where they try to force me into making decisions that I don't want to make (like punishing me for turning down pings that would mess up the strategy I'm working on, or trying to ram uberPools down my throat at times where I'd be insane to accept them... as a reasonable business owner who wants to make a profit). As far as the risk taking and unpredictability. That's just what being self-employed is... regardless of what you do. Most people THINK they want to be self-employed, but that's mostly just a grass is greener syndrome. Sometimes people think they know what they want until they get it, then they're shocked that it's not glamorous and cushy like they thought it would be. That isn't even just rideshare driving or uber... that's just what being self-employed is. Being an employee also has it's benefits. It depends on what people value. There is no right or wrong answer.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

K-pax said:


> Projections are based on data and educated guesses.


You sound like a company shill. My numbers are based on actual experience, not textbook projections. You previously admitted putting in 12 hour days sometimes. If you were a truck driver you could lose your CDL for doing that and your employer would get fined. Not sure I'd want to ride with someone who's been behind the wheel for 10 hours and yet those are the extremes drivers are being pushed to accept in order to make a living. Desperation leads to bad judgment and unpredictable behaviors, like drivers calling ahead to see if the trip is worthwhile, demanding cash up front for extra stops and spending too much time behind the wheel.

Risk is an entirely different set of calculations and it takes longer to build that base of data. That's why actuaries make such good money. Anyone driving without rideshare or commercial insurance is crazy. Here rideshare insurance is $1,895 for six months (provided you have a perfect driving record) and, at this writing, only available from one company. That means your first $315.83 a month goes to the insurance company. Anyone without it is taking a huge risk.

The inescapable fact is that the current rates are undermining driver quality and brand experience. The dynamic is creating a dysfunctional relationship between drivers and passengers. Just for the record, if you live near here I can project, with a fairly high degree of accuracy, how much you're going to make, before and after expenses, both weekends and weekdays (excluding holidays). This isn't rocket science but it is a difficult calculation because the company benefits from misinformation. If the truth was widely known, the number of drivers would drop dramatically and driver quality is on the downslope. If half the driver horror stories I hear from passengers are true, the brand image is already suffering.

The numbers don't lie and I have the numbers.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

FL_Dex said:


> You sound like a company shill. My numbers are based on actual experience, not textbook projections. You previously admitted putting in 12 hour days sometimes. If you were a truck driver you could lose your CDL for doing that and your employer would get fined. Not sure I'd want to ride with someone who's been behind the wheel for 10 hours and yet those are the extremes drivers are being pushed to accept in order to make a living. Desperation leads to bad judgment and unpredictable behaviors, like drivers calling ahead to see if the trip is worthwhile, demanding cash up front for extra stops and spending too much time behind the wheel.
> 
> Risk is an entirely different set of calculations and it takes longer to build that base of data. That's why actuaries make such good money. Anyone driving without rideshare or commercial insurance is crazy. Here rideshare insurance is $1,895 for six months (provided you have a perfect driving record) and, at this writing, only available from one company. That means your first $315.83 a month goes to the insurance company. Anyone without it is taking a huge risk.
> 
> ...


Hes def not a schill, active driver in my local forum.

Drivers in our city are able to make it work. Then again we are fortunate to have predictable surges and well over a dollar per mile.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

You're in Seattle, so you have a shorter distance to pickups and fewer obstacles like gated communities to contend with. I'm guessing your mileage rates are higher as well. Seattle is also a city with near constant events going on and the rain probably prompts people to opt for shorter rides instead of walking or biking. 

Yeah, in that environment you could make decent bank, just like you can in Miami here. Your view of the service would be different than someone in a place like Olympia, Redmond or Spokane which are more spread out.


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