# Declining Pay Rates, How much can uber/lyft get away with?



## JapanFour

So I have kind of wondered, how much can these companies lower driver pay rates? Where I live in the inland empire, the pay comes out to less than minimum wage, and sometimes worse. You can end up losing money.

How is this legal now, and whats stopping uber/lyft from paying even less? Where is the thresh hold where the drivers just stop driving all together?

What can drivers do to combat this financial atrophy?


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## RichR

JapanFour said:


> So I have kind of wondered, how much can these companies lower driver pay rates? Where I live in the inland empire, the pay comes out to less than minimum wage, and sometimes worse. You can end up losing money.
> 
> How is this legal now, and whats stopping uber/lyft from paying even less? Where is the thresh hold where the drivers just stop driving all together?
> 
> What can drivers do to combat this financial atrophy?


You're right, it's easy to make less than minimum wage. *Uber even promoted the idea *with their recent $10/hour guarantees (after Uber takes 28%, you're left with $7.20/hour _and that's before considering expenses!_). But, how is it not legal? Minimum wage doesn't apply here because we're not paid by the hour.

As long as new drivers keep signing up to replace drivers who figured it out, Uber can set fares even lower and/or set their cut higher.


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## JapanFour

I think after a while the revolving door wont work out for them. They obviously have an upperhand on how they advertise, but the reality coming from each city doesnt look good, given that most downtown areas would like the right to organize.


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## Trebor

As long as a driver feels like Uber pays enough for the gas, drivers will keeping driving.


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## JapanFour

Trebor said:


> As long as a driver feels like Uber pays enough for the gas, drivers will keeping driving.


so when an uber/lyft driver makes enough on a full tank to only pay for a full tank do you think they will still continue?


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## RichR

JapanFour said:


> I think after a while the revolving door wont work out for them. They obviously have an upperhand on how they advertise, but the reality coming from each city doesnt look good, given that most downtown areas would like the right to organize.


I would be very surprised if Uber isn't constantly monitoring driver turnover, etc., or has no plan ready to be implemented when they foresee a problem looming on the horizon.


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## JapanFour

RichR said:


> I would be very surprised if Uber isn't constantly monitoring driver turnover, etc., or has no plan ready to be implemented when they foresee a problem looming on the horizon.


Yeah its happening in CA already, its called lets get 12k new drivers on the road because who cares about demand?! Which will just prolong lower pay rates because they will have another turnover cycle.

But this is also a mechanism for breeding dissatisfaction among current and past employees. How long until that comes to a full boil?

They may have a plan, but that plan might not work well for them in the long term.


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## RichR

JapanFour said:


> ...[Uber] may have a plan, but that plan might not work well for them in the long term.


I'm thinking their plan includes cashing out with an IPO when they decide the time is right. Then, investors can watch the empire waste away.


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## LondonONTdriver

Uber has already been cannibalizing itself. It's just how long it can go on for..


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## Transportador

Riders I picked up last night from England told me in London Uber drivers are facing the same problem with rate cuts. Nobody is profitable doing Uber basic rides all over the world...Everybody is guessing that Uber is not in it for the long term! So typical of American business greed, Wall Street killing Main Street, over and over and over.


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## RichR

Transportador said:


> So typical of American business greed


Oh, yes, because American businesses are so very greedy while others around the world are comparatively altruistic.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Answer to OP:
Detroit is the current low in North America @.30 mile/.30 minute.

And people still drive.
Sorry!


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## Transportador

RichR said:


> Oh, yes, because American businesses are so very greedy while others around the world are comparatively altruistic.


It just seems to me that American companies are more short term in their thinking than businesses in other countries, but then we are not as socialistic as a society...


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## JapanFour

Transportador said:


> It just seems to me that American companies are more short term in their thinking than businesses in other countries, but then we are not as socialistic as a society...


yeah this isnt even remotely true. Look at companies in china, bangladesh and thailand. I mean Tesco thought up fresh n easy, and its now defunct because of its hastily poorly thought out profit model.


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## gofry

*Posted this in the Columbus forum a few days ago but I think it's relevant here too:*

I drove for 3 months, then quit, but I have since followed the whole Uber phenomenon with great interest. It is a revolutionary idea with great benefits for riders and for the founders of the company. It is a terrible idea for drivers. Yes, I'm a hater, but read on.

Most Uber drivers are not successful (the turnover is staggering) but there seems to be a strange sort of self-justification going on that compels drivers to kid themselves about this job choice. I'm not calling anyone a loser, or dumb (I did it), I'm just pointing out some potentially harmful behavior.

I hear things like _"It's OK that I'm not making money, it's just a part-time thing",_ or _"I enjoy meeting people"_, or _"I love the freedom"_, or I hear lots of ridiculous claims about how much they are making (mostly obvious exaggerations or figures that are before deducting expenses). I don't think these are all intentional lies, I think they are naive self-protection reflexes. Whatever they are, take all Columbus profit claims with a huge grain of salt.

Nobody likes to admit failure (myself included), nobody likes to look for a job, and no one likes "working for the man." But the fact is, if you need to produce real income, this is exactly what you're going to have to do. It simply isn't possible to make more money than a janitor in Columbus driving for Uber unless you are willing to work 60 hours a week, mostly at night, shuttling drunks around. Even then, a normal job will pay more.

The avoidance of doing the math is natural. Most of us hate financial planning, doing taxes, etc., but it is really important to see how little you are actually taking home. There are lots of posts on lots of forums showing you how to break it down.

If you were to spend the number of hours you are driving dead miles or waiting for pings on looking for a job, you would be doing yourself, and your family if you have one, a huge favor.

If you're curious, go ahead, sign up. It may make you happy. It will not make you money.

Interesting recent article on this subject: http://uberdriverdiaries.com/how-much-do-uber-drivers-really-make/


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## kideyse

Even if the pay was 0, I bet people would still do it. Something about the way the partner app presents the ride request ping mesmorizes and hypnotizes them into driving zombies. No doubt much research was done in developing the app for mind control.


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## JapanFour

kideyse said:


> Even if the pay was 0, I bet people would still do it. Something about the way the partner app presents the ride request ping mesmorizes and hypnotizes them into driving zombies. No doubt much research was done in developing the app for mind control.


i admit i think there is some risk reward triggers that the app provides. I dont think its mesmerizing though i can see what you mean. Either way you cant mesmerize someone all the way to starvation. Eventually your body goes into panic mode.


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## RichR

gofry said:


> If you're curious, go ahead, sign up. It may make you happy. It will not make you money.


That is *exactly* why I signed up. I was curious. My goal is to at least break even. Making a little money at it would be a plus, and that's the objective... which is more than I can say for my other hobbies.


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## JapanFour

I think it can make you money still. Its just not a full time job. If you have to work uber during 8am-4pm forget it. If you are using an expensive car to drive for uber forget it.


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## Greguzzi

Transportador said:


> It just seems to me that American companies are more short term in their thinking than businesses in other countries, but then we are not as socialistic as a society...


What? Google? Facebook? Apple? Amazon? etc., etc., etc.

Uber is the outlier, not American businesses.


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## secretadmirer

crapids 70 cents/miles and drivers think they can still earn money... I wouldn't be surprised if they lowered the rates to 30/40 cents and the driving zombies would still think they're making money. Call it uber charity.....


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## secretadmirer

crapids 70 cents/miles and drivers think they can still earn money... I wouldn't be surprised if they lowered the rates to 30/40 cents and the driving zombies would still think they're making money. Call it uber charity.....


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## JapanFour

Brothers and sisters. I had a dream last night. OK it was more akin to a nightmare. 

But I think I know how Uber could end up given its trajectory.

I predict it will turn into a social networking/ridesharing community app. Where riders only pay for gas, or even split the gas with the driver. It will be advertised as a way to get friends and socialize in your neighborhood. Of course in addition to gas is a flat rate uber fee.


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## RichR

secretadmirer said:


> crapids 70 cents/miles and drivers think they can still earn money... I wouldn't be surprised if they lowered the rates to 30/40 cents and the driving zombies would still think they're making money. Call it uber charity.....


Well, we also get 11¢/minute. Averaging 25 MPH gets us another 26¢/mile, for a total of 96¢/mile with a pax in the seat.

(People often mention Detroit's 30¢/mile but forget about their 30¢/minute; at 25 MPH, that totals 90¢/mile.)

But, I hear you loud and clear.


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## TwoFiddyMile

JapanFour said:


> Brothers and sisters. I had a dream last night. OK it was more akin to a nightmare.
> 
> But I think I know how Uber could end up given its trajectory.
> 
> I predict it will turn into a social networking/ridesharing community app. Where riders only pay for gas, or even split the gas with the driver. It will be advertised as a way to get friends and socialize in your neighborhood. Of course in addition to gas is a flat rate uber fee.


Kill your brain.


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## scrurbscrud

JapanFour said:


> So I have kind of wondered, how much can these companies lower driver pay rates? Where I live in the inland empire, the pay comes out to less than minimum wage, and sometimes worse. You can end up losing money.
> 
> How is this legal now, and whats stopping uber/lyft from paying even less? Where is the thresh hold where the drivers just stop driving all together?
> 
> What can drivers do to combat this financial atrophy?


Uh, stop driving? My wheel time continues to spiral ever downward with every rate cut til now, when only surge is on the radar. And it's hardly worth the efforts.

Uber and Lyft will continue to "churn and burn" drivers. And they will eventually either run out of them or be left with the idiots driving scrap cars for nothing. And yeah, we're just about to that point already with the current driver class. All the smart drivers got in, made the money when it was half way decent and stopped, like anyone with math skills would do.


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## scrurbscrud

RichR said:


> Well, we also get 11¢/minute. Averaging 25 MPH gets us another 26¢/mile, for a total of 96¢/mile with a pax in the seat.
> 
> (People often mention Detroit's 30¢/mile but forget about their 30¢/minute; at 25 MPH, that totals 90¢/mile.)
> 
> But, I hear you loud and clear.


Yeah, minus Uber's cut and then cut in half again for "total miles" equivalent pay. It works out to about 35 cents per overall mile no matter how ya slice it, THEN minus driver costs. So. What? 15 cents an overall mile? Drive 300 miles a day and make $45?!

I honestly don't know why drivers continue to bother. There is a difference between the 90 cents a mile you think you see and the 15 cent reality number.


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## scrurbscrud

RichR said:


> That is exactly why I signed up. I was curious. *My goal is to at least break even.* Making a little money at it would be a plus, and that's the objective... which is more than I can say for my other hobbies.


In other words *drive for nothing? yes, a realistic expectation.*


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## RichR

scrurbscrud said:


> I honestly don't know why drivers continue to bother. There is a difference between the 90 cents a mile you think you see and the 15 cent reality number.


I don't "think I see" 90¢/mile. That's the gross while a pax is in the seat. But thanks for the remedial lesson in reality just the same.



scrurbscrud said:


> In other words *drive for nothing? yes, a realistic expectation.*


Yes, as I said, it's a hobby. Part of the fun is figuring out how to make money at it.

Pity the poor schlub who hopes to make a living at it.


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## scrurbscrud

RichR said:


> Yes, as I said, it's a hobby.


Yeah, I think I got that part. Without having to actually do it for nothing.


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## secretadmirer

The biggest nightmare for the drivers (who want to make a profit, and not for charity) is knowing uber can get away with the huge price cuts because there are drivers out there that don't mind paying money of their own pocket to drive. I guess uber has some drivers convinced (like in detroit) that driving for them is doing a great service for their community, (whether they make money or not).


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## RichR

secretadmirer said:


> The biggest nightmare for the drivers (who want to make a profit, and not for charity) is knowing uber can get away with the huge price cuts because there are drivers out there that don't mind paying money of their own pocket to drive. I guess uber has some drivers convinced (like in detroit) that driving for them is doing a great service for their community, (whether they make money or not).


Working for Uber is no different than working any other job in that regard. You're always competing against someone else who is able and willing to do the job for less.

And everybody likes to use Detroit as an example. But, when you consider their 30¢/mile AND their 30¢/minute, unless they're driving significantly faster than the rest of us, Detroit's rate figures to be about the same as mine at 70¢ + 11¢.


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou

RichR said:


> You're right, it's easy to make less than minimum wage. *Uber even promoted the idea *with their recent $10/hour guarantees (after Uber takes 28%, you're left with $7.20/hour _and that's before considering expenses!_). But, how is it not legal? Minimum wage doesn't apply here because we're not paid by the hour.
> 
> As long as new drivers keep signing up to replace drivers who figured it out, Uber can set fares even lower and/or set their cut higher.


I find it funny how we aren't paid by the hour but uber has a $10/Hour guarantee. Why not a $10 a fare guarantee uber? Put the SRF to use and cover the difference from min fare to $10.


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## ChattaBilly

I use ubie to make an extra $100-150 wk. This is not a full time career for me.


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## JapanFour

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Kill your brain.


hey friend want to split gas and take me to the airport? By the way my name is steve!


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## JapanFour

scrurbscrud said:


> Uh, stop driving? My wheel time continues to spiral ever downward with every rate cut til now, when only surge is on the radar. And it's hardly worth the efforts.
> 
> Uber and Lyft will continue to "churn and burn" drivers. And they will eventually either run out of them or be left with the idiots driving scrap cars for nothing. And yeah, we're just about to that point already with the current driver class. All the smart drivers got in, made the money when it was half way decent and stopped, like anyone with math skills would do.


well yeah you can stop, but that doesn't stop the revolving door, or the deterioration of this job/gig. Organizing, Litigation will stop, and maybe increase wages, but thats a tough road that can end up being a mistake.


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## Realityshark

JapanFour said:


> So I have kind of wondered, how much can these companies lower driver pay rates?


As long as drivers are still logging on, Uber figures you don't care about the slave wages.

When was the last time you logged on?


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## TwoFiddyMile

JapanFour said:


> hey friend want to split gas and take me to the airport? By the way my name is steve!


Hand me your money first, Steve.
By the way, my name is Capitalist.


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## RichR

Realityshark said:


> As long as drivers are still logging on, Uber figures you don't care about the slave wages.
> 
> When was the last time you logged on?


Good question. Like most of us, I'm very often "logged on" (app open) but Offline waiting for a Surge. In fact, at my day job, I'll sit at my desk with the app open all day long. And on the rare occasion that there's a big Surge citywide, I'll Go Online and head for my car. I think Uber "knows" that, meaning they're collecting that data from every driver.

If so, Uber knows how willing we are to work their "slave wages" and who isn't. Moreover, Uber knows our behavior, collectively and individually.

They surely also know which users' screens are displaying the pax app and, of those, how many are registered drivers and have the driver app running in the background.

It only makes sense that Uber would be using all the data available to them.


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## scrurbscrud

JapanFour said:


> well yeah you can stop, but that doesn't stop the revolving door, or the deterioration of this job/gig. Organizing, Litigation will stop, and maybe increase wages, but thats a tough road that can end up being a mistake.


For me, I just had to stop doing UberX std rates. It was that simple. And of course this diminished my time on the road, substantially. I love the gig. I hate the pay, and refuse to do it, unless there is surge.

So it forces me off the road. XL biz is too spotty for me to sit around waiting and I'm NOT going to run up miles for what UberX OR Lyft std. pays. I just can't do it.

Now my driving is limited to spot shot time, when I think it can pay. Which is not very often. I'll go run an errand, go shopping, whatever, with the app on and fish. Maybe score an XL ride cause nobody else is around. Maybe hit a late night now and then when it's busy. Otherwise, NO. I got better and more interesting things to do with my time than volunteer Uber/Lyft std. rate driving. And I think any "thinking" driver makes the same conclusions in very short order once the ether of illusion wears off and the money/time aspects come into play.

Pay/time reality says, NO! *Not gonna do it.*


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## Chef Aarron

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Answer to OP:
> Detroit is the current low in North America @.30 mile/.30 minute.
> 
> And people still drive.
> Sorry!


Do you realize that at an average speed of 30 mph with traffic lights and such, Detroit drivers are getting $0.90 a mile while here in Jacksonville, with $0.65 a mile and $0.11 a minute, were getting $0.87!? Secret in Detroit: never ever go on the expressways. Drive where you can stay in neighborhoods. That high per minute rate is saving your ass. Looking at just fare miles and fare minutes since I started 7-1/2 months ago, not counting surge, just for illustrative purposes, I would be $732.02 higher in Detroit than in Jacksonville! Hell, in Detroit, go 20 miles an hour if you can! Get $1.20 for what I'd get $0.98 for here! But be sure to keep whining about it like y'all are hurting the most!


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## TwoFiddyMile

Chef Aarron said:


> Do you realize that at an average speed of 30 mph with traffic lights and such, Detroit drivers are getting $0.90 a mile while here in Jacksonville, with $0.65 a mile and $0.11 a minute, were getting $0.87!? Secret in Detroit: never ever go on the expressways. Drive where you can stay in neighborhoods. That high per minute rate is saving your ass. Looking at just fare miles and fare minutes since I started 7-1/2 months ago, not counting surge, just for illustrative purposes, I would be $732.02 higher in Detroit than in Jacksonville! Hell, in Detroit, go 20 miles an hour if you can! Get $1.20 for what I'd get $0.98 for here! But be sure to keep whining about it like y'all are hurting the most!


I get .50 per minute at any speed below 15 mph.
Waiting/idle/slow time is a suckers game.
In PRO driving you want a robust per mile rate and to always be moving.

That is, until 1.1 million people joined Ubers Race To Zero.


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## Chef Aarron

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I get .50 per minute at any speed below 15 mph.
> Waiting/idle/slow time is a suckers game.
> In PRO driving you want a robust per mile rate and to always be moving.
> 
> That is, until 1.1 million people joined Ubers Race To Zero.


Wow! Math has passed you by, hasn't it.

First of all, if you want to figure per minute, which is fairly meaningless from a profitability standpoint, here goes. If you're going 15 mph, in Detroit, you'd make $0.30 for the minute and drive a quarter mile for $0.075 for a total of $0.375, not $0.50. But let's say you go 60 mph. Then for one minute you'd have $0.30 for the minute and $0.30 for a mile for $0.60.

But, not so fast. You also have expenses which run per mile. Let's say for discussion that your fuel, maintenance, etc. runs about $0.35 a mile - a pretty typical figure a bit on the low side. Now that 15 mph is $0.375 minus $0.0875, or $0.2875. At 60 mph, you're at $0.60 minus $0.35, or $0.25.

In the Detroit market, going faster is a bad move unless your expenses are less that $0.30 a mile, which is virtually impossible with the gas prices there.

At Detroit rates, you need as many minutes as possible because the mile rate is actually losing money after expenses.

Now, in your market, at $0.75/$0.15 for the rates, it's different. For you, your expenses don't erase the mileage part of the fare, so the speed is fairly irrelevant. You will make more per minute the faster you go because it's your miles adding to the fare.

PRO driving does not mean always being moving. It means being productive. If you're always moving, taking everything you can get just to be moving, you are not doing as well as carefully planned driving that may be less actual activity. As an example, is it better to run 3 trips an hour at base rate or 1 trip an hour at 2.5 surge? Chances are, after expenses, that one trip at 2.5 will pay you a good bit more for that hour. That's not to say you sit and only take surge fares - it's a balance. But to say that you need to be always moving is flat out wrong.


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## OrlandoUberX

I saw a new driver in downtown Orlando the other night. Still had the paper tag on his car.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Chef Aarron said:


> Wow! Math has passed you by, hasn't it.
> 
> First of all, if you want to figure per minute, which is fairly meaningless from a profitability standpoint, here goes. If you're going 15 mph, in Detroit, you'd make $0.30 for the minute and drive a quarter mile for $0.075 for a total of $0.375, not $0.50. But let's say you go 60 mph. Then for one minute you'd have $0.30 for the minute and $0.30 for a mile for $0.60.
> 
> But, not so fast. You also have expenses which run per mile. Let's say for discussion that your fuel, maintenance, etc. runs about $0.35 a mile - a pretty typical figure a bit on the low side. Now that 15 mph is $0.375 minus $0.0875, or $0.2875. At 60 mph, you're at $0.60 minus $0.35, or $0.25.
> 
> In the Detroit market, going faster is a bad move unless your expenses are less that $0.30 a mile, which is virtually impossible with the gas prices there.
> 
> At Detroit rates, you need as many minutes as possible because the mile rate is actually losing money after expenses.
> 
> Now, in your market, at $0.75/$0.15 for the rates, it's different. For you, your expenses don't erase the mileage part of the fare, so the speed is fairly irrelevant. You will make more per minute the faster you go because it's your miles adding to the fare.
> 
> PRO driving does not mean always being moving. It means being productive. If you're always moving, taking everything you can get just to be moving, you are not doing as well as carefully planned driving that may be less actual activity. As an example, is it better to run 3 trips an hour at base rate or 1 trip an hour at 2.5 surge? Chances are, after expenses, that one trip at 2.5 will pay you a good bit more for that hour. That's not to say you sit and only take surge fares - it's a balance. But to say that you need to be always moving is flat out wrong.


Wow you forgot my $2.50 per mile at all times at all speeds.
Apparently algorithms werent covered in your community college.


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## Chef Aarron

Whatever, dude. Save it for someone dumb enough to believe you.


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## Chef Aarron

OrlandoUberX said:


> I saw a new driver in downtown Orlando the other night. Still had the paper tag on his car.


Driving Uber in a brand new car!? Wow! That is just dumb on such a high level. Hope he's happy using depreciation as a credit card.


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## Michguy01

Chef Aarron said:


> Do you realize that at an average speed of 30 mph with traffic lights and such, Detroit drivers are getting $0.90 a mile while here in Jacksonville, with $0.65 a mile and $0.11 a minute, were getting $0.87!? Secret in Detroit: never ever go on the expressways. Drive where you can stay in neighborhoods. That high per minute rate is saving your ass. Looking at just fare miles and fare minutes since I started 7-1/2 months ago, not counting surge, just for illustrative purposes, I would be $732.02 higher in Detroit than in Jacksonville! Hell, in Detroit, go 20 miles an hour if you can! Get $1.20 for what I'd get $0.98 for here! But be sure to keep whining about it like y'all are hurting the most!


Nobody is making $.90 a mile here on a non surge, sorry to bust your theory! People know where they are going, I'm pretty sure they are going to notice you taking the long/wrong routes. Try taking a pax from the burbs to downtown on side streets, see how that works out for ya! The only time I ever see the $.30 minute as a benefit is when the passenger has more then one stop to make.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Chef Aarron said:


> Whatever, dude. Save it for someone dumb enough to believe you.


Just wow.
Charlotte NC taxi rates are published.

You meant someone dumb enough NOT to believe me.
Now slink away and think up a seemingly clever reply.


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## 20yearsdriving

Chef Aarron said:


> Whatever, dude. Save it for someone dumb enough to believe you.


Your Chef knowledge works well in this driving Gig


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## Chef Aarron

Michguy01 said:


> Nobody is making $.90 a mile here on a non surge, sorry to bust your theory! People know where they are going, I'm pretty sure they are going to notice you taking the long/wrong routes. Try taking a pax from the burbs to downtown on side streets, see how that works out for ya! The only time I ever see the $.30 minute as a benefit is when the passenger has more then one stop to make.


If you average 30 mph, it's $0.90 a mile. Basic math. Just like here, at $0.65/$0.11, it's $0.87 a mile. If you drive faster, it's less. If you drive slower it's more. Since the mile rate doesn't cover expenses, you don't make anything without the time rate. Driving slower makes more money in that market. Again, basic math.


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## Chef Aarron

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Just wow.
> Charlotte NC taxi rates are published.
> 
> You meant someone dumb enough NOT to believe me.
> Now slink away and think up a seemingly clever reply.


Aaah! Taxi rates! I assumed since this is, after all, a forum for Uber drivers, and you're injecting nonsense into a conversation about Uber rates, that you were referring to earnings driving Uber. Even so, you don't make taxi rates because you gotta drive for free a good while before your lease is paid for the day, so on average you don't make that anyway. LOL!


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## USArmy31B30

The smart idiots making a decision about the rate cuts did NOT factor in other variables such as DEAD MILES, gap between requests and OTHER vehicle expenses other than GAS!!! SMFH...

They just calculated the PERFECT HOUR every hour, 24/7 365 days a year such as 6 pick ups an hour, or two trips from Point A to Point B 30 mins away and from Point B to Point A 30 mins back! 

They never intended to count DEAD minutes, DEAD MILES, other expenses beside gas, which dings drivers take home money...

BOTTOM LINE IS, if there's people willing to drive for WHATEVER rates they drop it to, THEY WILL continue to do so, as long as it creates MORE RIDERSHIP and more REVENUE for them at the expense of the gullible and the ignorants...

DRIVERS are to blame for the RATES that we are in!!! I'll say it again... WE AS DRIVERS ARE TO BLAME FOR THE SITUATION THAT WE ARE IN!!!


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## I_Like_Spam

As long as Uber can get a sufficient number of drivers to drive for low rates, they'll continue to offer low compensation. 

I am sure they'd like to raise the rates charged to riders, that would be more $$ in their pockets, but that would be a difficult sell. Their press releases brag that their drivers are making more than ever with the reduced fares.

Its sort of interesting that I've heard plenty of ads for Uber on the radio, Sean Hannity and other prominent folks have been hired to shill for them, but ALL of the ads are to recruit partners not to push for more riders.


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## Chef Aarron

Michguy01 said:


> Nobody is making $.90 a mile here on a non surge, sorry to bust your theory! People know where they are going, I'm pretty sure they are going to notice you taking the long/wrong routes. Try taking a pax from the burbs to downtown on side streets, see how that works out for ya! The only time I ever see the $.30 minute as a benefit is when the passenger has more then one stop to make.


I work in Jacksonville which is extremely spread out (largest city in the country!), but I choose where I work to maximize my profit. That, for me, means not having a lot of trips that run me away from where the best areas are. Even with the necessity of significant expressway driving here, my overall average speed is 28.07 mph for my last 1,754 trips. And I take the most efficient route everytime.

If trips from the burbs to downtown don't work, don't work the burbs. Duh!

I'll say again that if Detroit's time and distance rates are applied to the time and distance I've driven since I started, I would have made more money than I have at $0.65 a mile and $0.11 a minute.


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## Michguy01

Chef Aarron said:


> If you average 30 mph, it's $0.90 a mile. Basic math. Just like here, at $0.65/$0.11, it's $0.87 a mile. If you drive faster, it's less. If you drive slower it's more. Since the mile rate doesn't cover expenses, you don't make anything without the time rate. Driving slower makes more money in that market. Again, basic math.


Basic math.........$.65 + $.11 = $.87 Say what?


----------



## Chef Aarron

Michguy01 said:


> Basic math.........$.65 + $.11 = $.87 Say what?


30 mph, ding dong. That's 2 minutes per mile. Thanks for proving you can't do basic math.


----------



## Michguy01

Dude, burbs is 95% of the area....

Most people don't drive in "Detroit" except in downtown, unless you wanna get car-jacked and shot at, then after they shoot you, they'll call an ambulance for you, when they ambulance arrives they will car-jack the ambulance and go joy riding in it. This is DETROIT!


----------



## Chef Aarron

Michguy01 said:


> Dude, burbs is 95% of the area....
> 
> Most people don't drive in "Detroit" except in downtown, unless you wanna get car-jacked and shot at, then after they shoot you, they'll call an ambulance for you, when they ambulance arrives they will car-jack the ambulance and go joy riding in it. This is DETROIT!


Same here except I still average under 30 mph in a market area more than 6 times the size of yours. Just the city limits encompasses over 800 sq mi and our market area includes much more. Hmmm. Stick to neighborhoods where people tend to stay fairly local. It's not rocket science.


----------



## Thatendedbadly

Chef Aarron said:


> Do you realize that at an average speed of 30 mph with traffic lights and such, Detroit drivers are getting $0.90 a mile while here in Jacksonville





RichR said:


> Well, we also get 11¢/minute. Averaging 25 MPH gets us another 26¢/mile, for a total of 96¢/mile with a pax in the seat.
> 
> (People often mention Detroit's 30¢/mile but forget about their 30¢/minute; at 25 MPH, that totals 90¢/mile.)
> 
> But, I hear you loud and clear.


You're *well off* on the math and you used such an easy example I'm surprised. At 30 mph average, you drive .5 mile/minute. Uber rates pay .30 per mile, so if you've driven a half mile in one minute you earn *.15 cents for mileage* and *.30 for time,* .45 cents per mile* aggregate*. You actually earn more money driving faster but even averaging 60 mph the *aggregate is only .60 per mile*. I'm guessing poor math skills are why I regularly see 40+ drivers running around here at base rates.


----------



## Trebor

JapanFour said:


> so when an uber/lyft driver makes enough on a full tank to only pay for a full tank do you think they will still continue?


Yup. No doubt in my mind.


----------



## rtaatl

I think Uber is turning into a hobby for middle aged lonely guys with too much money and time on their hands...lol!


----------



## Trebor

rtaatl said:


> I think Uber is turning into a hobby for middle aged lonely guys with too much money and time on their hands...lol!


Agreed. After all, it gives you a chance to talk to girls (and guys if thats you thing.)


----------



## bard1290

RichR said:


> I would be very surprised if Uber isn't constantly monitoring driver turnover, etc., or has no plan ready to be implemented when they foresee a problem looming on the horizon.


The looming problem for them will be Juno. They are saying they off same rate structure but only take 10%. They are currently only on New York or those offices are there. They want uber drivers to work for them


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Chef Aarron said:


> Aaah! Taxi rates! I assumed since this is, after all, a forum for Uber drivers, and you're injecting nonsense into a conversation about Uber rates, that you were referring to earnings driving Uber. Even so, you don't make taxi rates because you gotta drive for free a good while before your lease is paid for the day, so on average you don't make that anyway. LOL!


I own my own cab. LOL.
and a preemptive LOL since this is a non purchased medalion town, because your next jibe would have been something like "...after your medalion payment".

Like 20yearsdriving said, stick to cooking.
I promise not to compete with your whitesauce.


----------



## Bart McCoy

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Answer to OP:
> Detroit is the current low in North America @.30 mile/.30 minute.
> 
> And people still drive.
> Sorry!





RichR said:


> Well, we also get 11¢/minute. Averaging 25 MPH gets us another 26¢/mile, for a total of 96¢/mile with a pax in the seat.
> 
> (People often mention Detroit's 30¢/mile but forget about their 30¢/minute; at 25 MPH, that totals 90¢/mile.)
> 
> .


This is sad. Once it dropped to 30cent a mile,people should have quit instanlty. Making it surge ridiculously,and making Uber raise rates in weeks. But...nope. People are driving like its a raise. Anything less than $1/mile really isnt worth driving for. Anything less than $1/mile that include the per min rate (like the 90cent math yall calculated) certainly aint worth it.

I think Uber can drop it to 5cent/miles and 35/cents a minute and they'll be no surges. You drivers gotta wise up


----------



## Michguy01

Right, but keep in mind that this forum represents a very small portion of drivers as a whole. I would say most detroit drivers HERE are pretty hip to the surges etc...The problem is the over-saturated new drivers that don't have a clue. I often see 5 or more drivers grouped together in a small area where there isn't even a surge....these cannot possibly be veteran drivers, they would know better.


----------



## backstreets-trans

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I get .50 per minute at any speed below 15 mph.
> Waiting/idle/slow time is a suckers game.
> In PRO driving you want a robust per mile rate and to always be moving.
> 
> That is, until 1.1 million people joined Ubers Race To Zero.


Making $130/hr on the freeway beats $30/hr waiting but both options are so much better then ubers b.s.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Michguy01 said:


> Right, but keep in mind that this forum represents a very small portion of drivers as a whole. I would say most detroit drivers HERE are pretty hip to the surges etc...The problem is the over-saturated new drivers that don't have a clue. I often see 5 or more drivers grouped together in a small area where there isn't even a surge....these cannot possibly be veteran drivers, they would know better.


Just read an old article ... Phantom cars . I was ranting about morons clogging up a non surge area, but another driver and I tried to track them down physically and often could not. The delay, etc all taken into account, it was getting crazy.

I have no idea how many of these they stick out there so that they can manipulate surge to keep people/riders happy, but. Would explain why some drivers in between them and us seem to be passing the calls and are stupid enough to be online... On the other hand, I still see lots of nubs online at no surge, and I would LOVE to figure out how to convince them to jus TRY a concerted wait out... Lol.

Uber builds a system for desperate grinders. Plain and simple...regardless of the rate, I agree people seem to just help Uber run to the bottom and get suckered by $500/75 rides, etc. Why? Because if rates were higher there are still those not satisfied and trying to rope surge? Maybe. They are capitalists, why can't we be?


----------



## RichR

Thatendedbadly said:


> You're *well off* on the math and you used such an easy example I'm surprised. At 30 mph average, you drive .5 mile/minute. Uber rates pay .30 per mile, so if you've driven a half mile in one minute you earn *.15 cents for mileage* and *.30 for time,* .45 cents per mile* aggregate*. You actually earn more money driving faster but even averaging 60 mph the *aggregate is only .60 per mile*. I'm guessing poor math skills are why I regularly see 40+ drivers running around here at base rates.


My math is fine. But yours? You've confused _per mile_ with _per minute,_ Einstein.


----------



## Abraxas79

JapanFour said:


> So I have kind of wondered, how much can these companies lower driver pay rates? Where I live in the inland empire, the pay comes out to less than minimum wage, and sometimes worse. You can end up losing money.
> 
> How is this legal now, and whats stopping uber/lyft from paying even less? Where is the thresh hold where the drivers just stop driving all together?
> 
> What can drivers do to combat this financial atrophy?


That is what the lawsuit is all about. Remember UBER has no tipping option and encourages its customers not to tip. In the past, hospitality workers for example could be be paid less then minimum wage, knowing they would surpass this figure with tips.

A lot of drivers I know have either stopped driving or reduced it to the point of doing enough to stay active. Some still are because they got sucked in by the marketing and others have no other choice but to drive until their cars break down.

Gradually the word is getting out that driving for UBER is a sham. In my city for example, UBER no longer advertises their outrageous claims of making $25 to $30 per hour, reducing it down to a much more modest $14.50 per hour. There are a lot driving jobs that pay better then this, where you do not have the insecurity of being deactivated at the drop of a hat.


----------



## JuanIguana

gofry said:


> *Posted this in the Columbus forum a few days ago but I think it's relevant here too:*
> 
> I drove for 3 months, then quit, but I have since followed the whole Uber phenomenon with great interest. It is a revolutionary idea with great benefits for riders and for the founders of the company. It is a terrible idea for drivers. Yes, I'm a hater, but read on.
> 
> Most Uber drivers are not successful (the turnover is staggering) but there seems to be a strange sort of self-justification going on that compels drivers to kid themselves about this job choice. I'm not calling anyone a loser, or dumb (I did it), I'm just pointing out some potentially harmful behavior.
> 
> I hear things like _"It's OK that I'm not making money, it's just a part-time thing",_ or _"I enjoy meeting people"_, or _"I love the freedom"_, or I hear lots of ridiculous claims about how much they are making (mostly obvious exaggerations or figures that are before deducting expenses). I don't think these are all intentional lies, I think they are naive self-protection reflexes. Whatever they are, take all Columbus profit claims with a huge grain of salt.
> 
> Nobody likes to admit failure (myself included), nobody likes to look for a job, and no one likes "working for the man." But the fact is, if you need to produce real income, this is exactly what you're going to have to do. It simply isn't possible to make more money than a janitor in Columbus driving for Uber unless you are willing to work 60 hours a week, mostly at night, shuttling drunks around. Even then, a normal job will pay more.
> 
> The avoidance of doing the math is natural. Most of us hate financial planning, doing taxes, etc., but it is really important to see how little you are actually taking home. There are lots of posts on lots of forums showing you how to break it down.
> 
> If you were to spend the number of hours you are driving dead miles or waiting for pings on looking for a job, you would be doing yourself, and your family if you have one, a huge favor.
> 
> If you're curious, go ahead, sign up. It may make you happy. It will not make you money.
> 
> Interesting recent article on this subject: http://uberdriverdiaries.com/how-much-do-uber-drivers-really-make/


I think you like to see your ramblings in type.

For every driver who bought the lie about how much they could make driving gUbers around there are countless more who have found ways to make it work for them.

That job you keep talking about, the one that pays better than uber... it simply doesn't exist for countless people around the globe.

You sound like


----------



## JuanIguana

gofry said:


> *Posted this in the Columbus forum a few days ago but I think it's relevant here too:*
> 
> I drove for 3 months, then quit, but I have since followed the whole Uber phenomenon with great interest. It is a revolutionary idea with great benefits for riders and for the founders of the company. It is a terrible idea for drivers. Yes, I'm a hater, but read on.
> 
> Most Uber drivers are not successful (the turnover is staggering) but there seems to be a strange sort of self-justification going on that compels drivers to kid themselves about this job choice. I'm not calling anyone a loser, or dumb (I did it), I'm just pointing out some potentially harmful behavior.
> 
> I hear things like _"It's OK that I'm not making money, it's just a part-time thing",_ or _"I enjoy meeting people"_, or _"I love the freedom"_, or I hear lots of ridiculous claims about how much they are making (mostly obvious exaggerations or figures that are before deducting expenses). I don't think these are all intentional lies, I think they are naive self-protection reflexes. Whatever they are, take all Columbus profit claims with a huge grain of salt.
> 
> Nobody likes to admit failure (myself included), nobody likes to look for a job, and no one likes "working for the man." But the fact is, if you need to produce real income, this is exactly what you're going to have to do. It simply isn't possible to make more money than a janitor in Columbus driving for Uber unless you are willing to work 60 hours a week, mostly at night, shuttling drunks around. Even then, a normal job will pay more.
> 
> The avoidance of doing the math is natural. Most of us hate financial planning, doing taxes, etc., but it is really important to see how little you are actually taking home. There are lots of posts on lots of forums showing you how to break it down.
> 
> If you were to spend the number of hours you are driving dead miles or waiting for pings on looking for a job, you would be doing yourself, and your family if you have one, a huge favor.
> 
> If you're curious, go ahead, sign up. It may make you happy. It will not make you money.
> 
> Interesting recent article on this subject: http://uberdriverdiaries.com/how-much-do-uber-drivers-really-make/


You come across as the oppugnant "man in the silk suit" Hornsby refers to in the song That's Just The Way It Is who disgustingly jokes "Get a job" to the lady standing in the welfare line.


----------



## Chef Aarron

Thatendedbadly said:


> You're *well off* on the math and you used such an easy example I'm surprised. At 30 mph average, you drive .5 mile/minute. Uber rates pay .30 per mile, so if you've driven a half mile in one minute you earn *.15 cents for mileage* and *.30 for time,* .45 cents per mile* aggregate*. You actually earn more money driving faster but even averaging 60 mph the *aggregate is only .60 per mile*. I'm guessing poor math skills are why I regularly see 40+ drivers running around here at base rates.


Uber rates pay .30 per mile, so if you've driven a half mile in one minute you earn *.15 cents for mileage* and *.30 for time,* .45 cents per *MINUTE aggregate*. When I said $0.90 it was per MILE. Are you really that dense that you can't tell the difference between miles and minutes?


----------



## Chef Aarron

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I own my own cab. LOL.
> and a preemptive LOL since this is a non purchased medalion town, because your next jibe would have been something like "...after your medalion payment".
> 
> Like 20yearsdriving said, stick to cooking.
> I promise not to compete with your whitesauce.


And yet you pretend to contribute to a forum for UBER drivers. Go find a "dingbats who own their own cabs and can't understand that driving costs money" forum. Guess what? You still don't make "two fiddy" a mile. If you think you do, you're a bigger fool than I thought.


----------



## Chef Aarron

JuanIguana said:


> You come across as the oppugnant "man in the silk suit" Hornsby refers to in the song That's Just The Way It Is who disgustingly jokes "Get a job" to the lady standing in the welfare line.


People who cannot figure out how to make it work are often very condescending to those that do. Talk about self-protection! My reponse is simply this: just because YOU can't make money doesn't mean you can't make money.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Chef Aarron said:


> And yet you pretend to contribute to a forum for UBER drivers. Go find a "dingbats who own their own cabs and can't understand that driving costs money" forum. Guess what? You still don't make "two fiddy" a mile. If you think you do, you're a bigger fool than I thought.


You did an excellent job on the flan.
The new potatoes were very fresh. 
Bravo!


----------



## Chef Aarron

Thatendedbadly said:


> You're *well off* on the math and you used such an easy example I'm surprised. At 30 mph average, you drive .5 mile/minute. Uber rates pay .30 per mile, so if you've driven a half mile in one minute you earn *.15 cents for mileage* and *.30 for time,* .45 cents per mile* aggregate*. You actually earn more money driving faster but even averaging 60 mph the *aggregate is only .60 per mile*. I'm guessing poor math skills are why I regularly see 40+ drivers running around here at base rates.


And no you DO NOT make more money driving faster at Detroit rates unless your cost of operating the vehicle is less than $0.30 per mile, which is virtually impossible with fuel, maintenance, depreciation, etc. Every mile driven is a loss of money that only the time component can make up, because expenses are almost exclusively related to miles, not time.


----------



## Finnegan

SF and NY, are the last outposts.
Numbers don't add up anywhere else.


----------



## kalanicksabead

I think the national cost right now to operate a vehicle is 54 cents per mile. 
That includes gas and depreciation on your car. 

So take the 90 cents you make per mile from uber and subtract 54 cents. 

that comes out toe 36 cents a mile you are really earning in profit. 

people dont seem to understand this.


----------



## I_Like_Spam

Chef Aarron said:


> And yet you pretend to contribute to a forum for UBER drivers. Go find a "dingbats who own their own cabs and can't understand that driving costs money" forum. Guess what? You still don't make "two fiddy" a mile. If you think you do, you're a bigger fool than I thought.


If the poster says that taxi in Charlotte charges $2.50 a mile, it sounds legit. Yellow Cab of Pittsburgh was charging $1.80 for the 1st 7th of a mile and $1.40 a mile after when I was driving 20 years ago and prices have certainly gone up a bit since. $2.50 looks like a reasonable price.


----------



## JuanIguana

kalanicksabead said:


> I think the national cost right now to operate a vehicle is 54 cents per mile.
> That includes gas and depreciation on your car.
> 
> So take the 90 cents you make per mile from uber and subtract 54 cents.
> 
> that comes out toe 36 cents a mile you are really earning in profit.
> 
> people dont seem to understand this.


Wow. So glad you showed up and enlightened us.


----------



## Chef Aarron

I_Like_Spam said:


> If the poster says that taxi in Charlotte charges $2.50 a mile, it sounds legit. Yellow Cab of Pittsburgh was charging $1.80 for the 1st 7th of a mile and $1.40 a mile after when I was driving 20 years ago and prices have certainly gone up a bit since. $2.50 looks like a reasonable price.


And that would be revenue, not what he makes. Business 101, guys!


----------



## RichR

kalanicksabead said:


> I think the national cost right now to operate a vehicle is 54 cents per mile.
> That includes gas and depreciation on your car.
> 
> So take the 90 cents you make per mile from uber and subtract 54 cents.
> 
> that comes out toe 36 cents a mile you are really earning in profit.
> 
> people dont seem to understand this.


Even if your 54¢/mile cost is correct, your 36¢/mile "profit" happens only when there's a pax in the seat. (Do you have a transporter beaming your car to the pickup point?) And, that's before Uber takes its 20% or 28% commission. And, that's before you assign any value to your time (you could be using that time to do something even more profitable; a minimum wage job, at the very least).

I bet most of us understand more than you think.


----------



## Chef Aarron

kalanicksabead said:


> I think the national cost right now to operate a vehicle is 54 cents per mile.
> That includes gas and depreciation on your car.
> 
> So take the 90 cents you make per mile from uber and subtract 54 cents.
> 
> that comes out toe 36 cents a mile you are really earning in profit.
> 
> people dont seem to understand this.


$0.54 is the IRS standard mileage rate. It is based on depreciation of a new car, fuel, maintenance, and a variety of other expenses. It also includes insurance, which unless you have separate commercial insurance, is not an Uber expense because you would be insured even if you did not drive for Uber. It also includes registration, again not an Uber expense. Expenses for individual drivers varies widely, but is rarely as high as the IRS number unless you're using a new car and taking it to the dealer for maintenance. For example, my cost of operation is dramatically lower because I'm driving an 08 minuvan with 140k on the odometer so depreciation is nearly nil and I do my own maintenance. The only way to know your true operating costs is to calculate it for you and your own situation.


----------



## Chef Aarron

kalanicksabead said:


> I think the national cost right now to operate a vehicle is 54 cents per mile.
> That includes gas and depreciation on your car.
> 
> So take the 90 cents you make per mile from uber and subtract 54 cents.
> 
> that comes out toe 36 cents a mile you are really earning in profit.
> 
> people dont seem to understand this.


Your expenses are also tied to your total miles, not just the ones with a rider in the seat. If you only have a rider in the seat, then each total mile driven earns only half the fare. Of the 54 cents is your reality, you lose money every time you take a fare.


----------



## I_Like_Spam

Chef Aarron said:


> And that would be revenue, not what he makes. Business 101, guys!


$2.50 is still close to the marginal profit that cab drivers earn however. When I was driving, I didn't own a cab I leased it for $58 for a 10 hour shift and the only variable was gasoline. The Charlotte driver has a somewhat similar cost profile as most of the business costs are pretty much fixed like a leasing driver, insurance, registration and licensing, the cost of the vehicle all must be paid for regardless of how many trips are taken. Further, cab drivers receive a lot of tips. If I booked $200 on the meter during a shift, I'd pocket $30 or $40 in tips as well- more if I took a lot of short trips. The cab company just got the lease money, although tipping the dispatcher a couple of bucks was a good idea if you wanted a nicer vehicle.


----------



## wk1102

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Answer to OP:
> Detroit is the current low in North America @.30 mile/.30 minute.
> 
> And people still drive.
> Sorry!


Some would argue that Orlando and Tampa's .65c/.11c are lower.


----------



## Chef Aarron

wk1102 said:


> Some would argue that Orlando and Tampa's .65c/.11c are lower.


And some would argue when my average speed is about 30 mph that the $0.87 cents a mile that equals is somehow more than the $0.90 a mile made in Detroit in the same circumstances. Some would also not know the difference between miles and minutes. Some here might not even realize that operating a car is not free. But then again some of us have the most basic of math, reading, and business skills and know that those others are morons.


----------



## wk1102

Chef Aarron said:


> And some would argue when my average speed is about 30 mph that the $0.87 cents a mile that equals is somehow more than the $0.90 a mile made in Detroit in the same circumstances. Some would also not know the difference between miles and minutes. Some here might not even realize that operating a car is not free. But then again some of us have the most basic of math, reading, and business skills and know that those others are morons.


Jax is is .65/.11?


----------



## Chef Aarron

I_Like_Spam said:


> $2.50 is still close to the marginal profit that cab drivers earn however. When I was driving, I didn't own a cab I leased it for $58 for a 10 hour shift and the only variable was gasoline. The Charlotte driver has a somewhat similar cost profile as most of the business costs are pretty much fixed like a leasing driver, insurance, registration and licensing, the cost of the vehicle all must be paid for regardless of how many trips are taken. Further, cab drivers receive a lot of tips. If I booked $200 on the meter during a shift, I'd pocket $30 or $40 in tips as well- more if I took a lot of short trips. The cab company just got the lease money, although tipping the dispatcher a couple of bucks was a good idea if you wanted a nicer vehicle.


Not even remotely. At $2.50 a gallon in a car getting 25 mpg, fuel is $0.10 a mile. So, now your at $2.40.

If you made $200 in a shift at $2.50 a mile, you drove 80 miles with a fare in the car. I'll generously say that pickups were all very close and say your total miles was 120. That makes your $58 lease, $0.48 per mile. So, now were at $1.92.

You probably have to have commercial insurance. Say $200 per month. If you drive 22 days a month, 80 miles a day, that's 1,760 miles, making that insurance about $0.11 a mile. So now you're at $1.81 a mile.

There's more, but I'll stop there at a mere 27.6% of that "two fiddy" gone. Yeah, real close.


----------



## Chef Aarron

wk1102 said:


> Jax is is .65/.11?


Yes.


----------



## JuanIguana

Chef Aarron said:


> Not even remotely. At $2.50 a gallon in a car getting 25 mpg, fuel is $0.10 a mile. So, now your at $2.40.
> 
> If you made $200 in a shift at $2.50 a mile, you drove 80 miles with a fare in the car. I'll generously say that pickups were all very close and saty your total miles was 120. That makes your $58 lease, $0.48 per mile. So, now were at $1.92.
> 
> You probably have to have commercial insurance. Say $200 per month. If you drive 22 days a month, 80 miles a day, that's 1,760 miles, making that insurance about $0.11 a mile. So now you're at $1.81 a mile.
> 
> There's more, but I'll stop there at a mere 27.6% of that "two fiddy" gone. Yeah, real close.


I want some of that $200/ mo commercial auto ins.

More like $500/mo.


----------



## wk1102

Chef Aarron said:


> Yes.


Oh my... I have a guy that needs round trip from Port st lucie to Jax with like a 2 hour break once we get there... I'm glad I found this out now. Holy crap. I'd of been pissed.


----------



## Chef Aarron

JuanIguana said:


> I want some of that $200/ mo commercial auto ins.
> 
> More like $500/mo.


Exactly. Was being extremely generous.


----------



## JuanIguana

Chef Aarron said:


> Exactly. Was being extremely generous.


I'm thinking they should get your point, but ya never know.


----------



## Chef Aarron

wk1102 said:


> Oh my... I have a guy that needs round trip from Port st lucie to Jax with like a 2 hour break once we get there... I'm glad I found this out now. Holy crap. I'd of been pissed.


If you would have ever done that ending the trip for that two hours, you ARE dumb!


----------



## wk1102

Chef Aarron said:


> If you would have ever done that ending the trip for that two hours, you ARE dumb!


That was the plan... I am currently renegotiating. .. he was prepared to pay the rate here x 2 so hopefully...


----------



## ChicagoHeat12

JapanFour said:


> I think after a while the revolving door wont work out for them. They obviously have an upperhand on how they advertise, but the reality coming from each city doesnt look good, given that most downtown areas would like the right to organize.


The revolving door will always work for them. Just like those Nigerian email scams, there's always a new sucker.


----------



## JuanIguana

ChicagoHeat12 said:


> The revolving door will always work for them. Just like those Nigerian email scams, there's always a new sucker.


You just called me a sucker.


----------



## Chef Aarron

wk1102 said:


> That was the plan... I am currently renegotiating. .. he was prepared to pay the rate here x 2 so hopefully...


If you do out of town trips like that, never, ever, not ever do anything but insist on getting paid for your time. That is two hours that you could be making money locally and it should be compensated.

Also, if he's willing to pay 2X the local rate, great, that's fair, but that first X goes on app. DO NOT leave yourself uninsured!

Run the app to get the number and base the 2X on that number. Maybe you consider the 2X as compensation for your time, fair enough, but I still would not go off app! Too many crazy things can happen in a trip so long.

Also, get money up front, not necessarily everything, but enough to cover your gas and something for your time, so if he disappears in that two hours, you're not screwed.

Finally, remember in your calculation of whether it's even worth it that you will make a lot less than the same miles at 2X surge locally. Your average speed is going to be about 2-1/2 times local driving, so the time component of the fare will be 40% of normal. Over a three to three and a half hour trip, that means something. At my rates of $0.11 a minute, at 30 mph, I effectively rack $0.87 a mile. At 75 miles an hour, that drops to $0.738! Over 250 miles, that's a difference of $33!


----------



## UofMDriver

Actually Uber is doing all they can to get rid of drivers, with the automonous car venture. It appears to grind on them, that the driver behind the wheel needs to turn a profit.


----------



## Chef Aarron

UofMDriver said:


> Actually Uber is doing all they can to get rid of drivers, with the automonous car venture. It appears to grind on them, that the driver behind the wheel needs to turn a profit.


Why wouldn't they? It's a business. If autonomous cars get ready for prime time, you think Yellow and others, and public tramsportation for that matter, won't make the switch?


----------



## Adieu

It's NOT at 30/30, though.... More like 24/24 and 22.5/22.5

And, BTW, depending on local speed limits and actual traffic speeds, an ACTUAL 30c/minute might be as valuable or more valuable than the 70ish cents per mile or so most markets get along with tiny minute charges....

For example, Los Angeles with its 25/35mph streets and ~8mph traffic would be far more doable in daytime @ "40/40" (actual 30/30)



TwoFiddyMile said:


> Answer to OP:
> Detroit is the current low in North America @.30 mile/.30 minute.
> 
> And people still drive.
> Sorry!


----------



## Chef Aarron

Adieu said:


> It's NOT at 30/30, though.... More like 24/24 and 22.5/22.5
> 
> And, BTW, depending on local speed limits and actual traffic speeds, an ACTUAL 30c/minute might be as valuable or more valuable than the 70ish cents per mile or so most markets get along with tiny minute charges....
> 
> For example, Los Angeles with its 25/35mph streets and ~8mph traffic would be far more doable in daytime @ "40/40" (actual 30/30)


Exactly! Stay off the expressways by working local neighborhoods. Not tough for most people to grasp, but around here....


----------



## Greguzzi

Chef Aarron said:


> $0.54 is the IRS standard mileage rate. It is based on depreciation of a new car, fuel, maintenance, and a variety of other expenses. It also includes insurance, which unless you have separate commercial insurance, is not an Uber expense because you would be insured even if you did not drive for Uber. It also includes registration, again not an Uber expense. Expenses for individual drivers varies widely, but is rarely as high as the IRS number unless you're using a new car and taking it to the dealer for maintenance. For example, my cost of operation is dramatically lower because I'm driving an 08 minuvan with 140k on the odometer so depreciation is nearly nil and I do my own maintenance. The only way to know your true operating costs is to calculate it for you and your own situation.


Travis loves guys like you. LOL.


----------



## Chef Aarron

Greguzzi said:


> Travis loves guys like you. LOL.


Guys who can do math, allocate expenses properly, and understand the tax code? Please, Greguzzi, explain to us all what I said incorrectly in my post. Better yet, let's see your expense analysis. I bet you're doing a lot better this year than last - after all, the IRS mileage rate dropped from $0.575 to $0.54 so you're making more profit, right? LOL!


----------



## The_Mouser

Using the IRS mileage rate for short hand isn't bad, but you really should calculate your operating expenses to be sure. Because it's $0.54 here in Texas as it is in California, despite the price differences in gas, licensing, insurance, registration etc etc. Until you nail it down for yourself, your car, and your state it's really difficult to know your break even point which is a must.

$0.30 mile / $0.30 minute is $0.90 per mile at 30 mph. Mile based expenses, like gas, would be halved per minute at that speed. A 5 mile trip would yield $1.50 in mileage and $3.00 in time at 30 mph, as opposed to $1.50 each at 60 mph. The same amount of gas is used, and the same amount of depreciation on the vehicle. You however would be able to get a new pax twice as fast (theoretically) at 60 mph. If you don't, and you wait longer than it took to get there, you would have been better off at 30 mph.

We can split hairs all we want, but the biggest factor in profitability over an hour is how many minutes you are not with pax. Faster speeds work to your advantage if you are going to an area where you are likely to get another ping quickly and not far away. Where as slower speeds for the inverse because you will be making up for dead miles on the way back which you try and do as quickly as possible.

None of that is taking into account the patience of the pax for lollygagging. They usually do not want to pay more than necessary or take longer than necessary. So tooling down the access road because it is slower or taking the scenic route is going to piss them off and they will bomb your rating. So you take the fastest route, but you don't speed. Come to a complete stop at stop signs and count off 2 seconds before going. Slow down going around turns. Do whatever you can to add time to the clock in the interest of the pax's "safety and comfort". Mileage is set, time is not.


----------



## Buckpasser

It's big bucks for the International community , who pay 27.99 % in a new car they never thought they would drive , Uber will create the sub prime auto loan crisis , When Mostapha, Joe, & Vo default on their loans also Uber will be a excellent stock to short when it goes public


----------



## The_Mouser

Buckpasser said:


> It's big bucks for the International community , who pay 27.99 % in a new car they never thought they would drive , Uber will create the sub prime auto loan crisis , When Mostapha, Joe, & Vo default on their loans also Uber will be a excellent stock to short when it goes public


Depends on the debt load. If they don't have a lot of debt, then they could borrow long enough for the shareholders to force measures to increase profitability. Maybe right before the window opens for the current equity holders to be able to sell their shares. I know if I had equity in uber now, I would be trying to get my initial investment back as soon as I could and let the rest ride.


----------



## Realityshark

I've wondered how Uber keeps finding drivers after all the rate cuts. Apparently, there is no shortage.
I think I've underestimated the number of desperate people who can't find work anywhere else in society. There must be an enormous number of people who are living hand to mouth and don't even consider what toll is being taken on their car.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

$2.50 per mile and .50 per minute at speeds between 0-14MPH is indeed revenue, as our chef has pointed out.
Revenue-expense=profit.
I definitely profit, unlike the majority of Uber owner ops who take a loss at tax time.
Dont get me wrong, taking a loss could be a benefit for part timers whom would otherwise owe.
But your car is also a loss at anything less than $150 per mile .30 per minute.
Why? Simple.
Part of your revenue must be allocated to car maintenance and replacement.
Once you expense out tires, parts, labor, gas, most of you in .90 or less markets have nothing left over to replace your car with.

...Unless you use your paycheck from your Line Cook job.


----------



## Luberon

Acc


TwoFiddyMile said:


> $2.50 per mile and .50 per minute at speeds between 0-14MPH is indeed revenue, as our failed chef has pointed out.
> Revenue-expense=profit.
> I definitely profit, unlike the majority of Uber owner ops who take a loss at tax time.
> Dont get me wrong, taking a loss could be a benefit for part timers whom would otherwise owe.
> But your car is also a loss at anything less than $150 per mile .30 per minute.
> Why? Simple.
> Part of your revenue must be allocated to car maintenance and replacement.
> Once you expense out tires, parts, labor, gas, most of you in .90 or less markets have nothing left over to replace your car with.
> 
> ...Unless you use your paycheck from your Line Cook job.


According to AAA it costs .45c/mile to own a small sedan in the US in 2015.... So most markets on .90c/mile are running at cost at best if you account for dead miles
http://exchange.aaa.com/automobiles-travel/automobiles/driving-costs/#.Vu_h8FUrLGI


----------



## JaxUbermom

Chef Aarron said:


> If you do out of town trips like that, never, ever, not ever do anything but insist on getting paid for your time. That is two hours that you could be making money locally and it should be compensated.
> 
> Also, if he's willing to pay 2X the local rate, great, that's fair, but that first X goes on app. DO NOT leave yourself uninsured!
> 
> Run the app to get the number and base the 2X on that number. Maybe you consider the 2X as compensation for your time, fair enough, but I still would not go off app! Too many crazy things can happen in a trip so long.
> 
> Also, get money up front, not necessarily everything, but enough to cover your gas and something for your time, so if he disappears in that two hours, you're not screwed.
> 
> Finally, remember in your calculation of whether it's even worth it that you will make a lot less than the same miles at 2X surge locally. Your average speed is going to be about 2-1/2 times local driving, so the time component of the fare will be 40% of normal. Over a three to three and a half hour trip, that means something. At my rates of $0.11 a minute, at 30 mph, I effectively rack $0.87 a mile. At 75 miles an hour, that drops to $0.738! Over 250 miles, that's a difference of $33!


If your pax meant 2x as in one leg up and one leg down, then basically you are doing base fare up and back. And UNLESS YOU ARE COMMERCIALLY INSURED DO NOT WORK OFF AP. the whopping 12.00 extra you get for staying on his ride, on the ap is small compensation, but you might also need to consider the UBer cap on fare, miles. Have him sit in the car and restart the ride. You can drive up here so it doesn't matter. Whatever you do, never come on a public forum and discuss working off the ap without being fully licensed and insured. And I know you , wk1102 don't mean that. We have had too many intelligent conversations to even suspect you of such... Just pointing out for all the lurkers hoping to learn by reading.


----------



## JuanIguana

JaxUbermom said:


> If your pax meant 2x as in one leg up and one leg down, then basically you are doing base fare up and back. And UNLESS YOU ARE COMMERCIALLY INSURED DO NOT WORK OFF AP. the whopping 12.00 extra you get for staying on his ride, on the ap is small compensation, but you might also need to consider the UBer cap on fare, miles. Have him sit in the car and restart the ride. You can drive up here so it doesn't matter. Whatever you do, never come on a public forum and discuss working off the ap without being fully licensed and insured. And I know you , wk1102 don't mean that. We have had too many intelligent conversations to even suspect you of such... Just pointing out for all the lurkers hoping to learn by reading.


He said lurkers.


----------



## JaxUbermom

JuanIguana said:


> He said lurkers.


She said, lol.


----------



## JuanIguana

JaxUbermom said:


> She said, lol.


Lol.

You got me.

But, but....in Beavis and butthead it's "he said".

Never mind...you got me.


----------



## JaxUbermom

JaxUbermom said:


> If your pax meant 2x as in one leg up and one leg down, then basically you are doing base fare up and back. And UNLESS YOU ARE COMMERCIALLY INSURED DO NOT WORK OFF AP. the whopping 12.00 extra you get for staying on his ride, on the ap is small compensation, but you might also need to consider the UBer cap on fare, miles. Have him sit in the car and restart the ride. You can drive up here so it doesn't matter. Whatever you do, never come on a public forum and discuss working off the ap without being fully licensed and insured. And I know you , wk1102 don't mean that. We have had too many intelligent conversations to even suspect you of such... Just pointing out for all the lurkers hoping to learn by reading.


But a nice fat TIP is completely legal and I dare Uber to give you crap about it it. Might want to get that upfront though...


----------



## JaxUbermom

JuanIguana said:


> Lol.
> 
> You got me.
> 
> But, but....in Beavis and butthead it's "he said".
> 
> Never mind...you got me.


Lol, he he, ghe...


----------



## I_Like_Spam

Insurance was included in the $58 lease. The Yellow Cab company made money from the transaction.


Chef Aarron said:


> Not even remotely. At $2.50 a gallon in a car getting 25 mpg, fuel is $0.10 a mile. So, now your at $2.40.
> 
> If you made $200 in a shift at $2.50 a mile, you drove 80 miles with a fare in the car. I'll generously say that pickups were all very close and say your total miles was 120. That makes your $58 lease, $0.48 per mile. So, now were at $1.92.
> 
> You probably have to have commercial insurance. Say $200 per month. If you drive 22 days a month, 80 miles a day, that's 1,760 miles, making that insurance about $0.11 a mile. So now you're at $1.81 a mile.
> 
> There's more, but I'll stop there at a mere 27.6% of that "two fiddy" gone. Yeah, real close.


When I was driving it was $1.80 when they got into the cab, $1.40 a mile and gasoline was $1.10 a gallon. A day with $200 on the meter would be 30 trips, 100 compensable miles and maybe a total of 180 miles with took $20 in gas as a 92 Caprice wasn't that thrifty.

Insurance was included in the lease, as was a tow truck if needed, dispatching services. YC provided all of that for the $58, and were happy to do it as they were making a profit.

Marginal rate means what you can make by running another trip. The lease was a fixed price whether you made a lot of trips or just a few, the only variable was gasoline which was about a dime a mile in that car. Net margin was a buck thirdy, gross $1.40.

Sure on a busy day 35% of the money brought in went to YC, but the margins were pretty low which were encouragement to get out there and make trips.


----------



## painfreepc

The_Mouser said:


> Using the IRS mileage rate for short hand isn't bad, but you really should calculate your operating expenses to be sure. Because it's $0.54 here in Texas as it is in California, despite the price differences in gas, licensing, insurance, registration etc etc. Until you nail it down for yourself, your car, and your state it's really difficult to know your break even point which is a must.
> 
> $0.30 mile / $0.30 minute is $0.90 per mile at 30 mph. Mile based expenses, like gas, would be halved per minute at that speed. A 5 mile trip would yield $1.50 in mileage and $3.00 in time at 30 mph, as opposed to $1.50 each at 60 mph. The same amount of gas is used, and the same amount of depreciation on the vehicle. You however would be able to get a new pax twice as fast (theoretically) at 60 mph. If you don't, and you wait longer than it took to get there, you would have been better off at 30 mph.
> 
> We can split hairs all we want, but the biggest factor in profitability over an hour is how many minutes you are not with pax. Faster speeds work to your advantage if you are going to an area where you are likely to get another ping quickly and not far away. Where as slower speeds for the inverse because you will be making up for dead miles on the way back which you try and do as quickly as possible.
> 
> None of that is taking into account the patience of the pax for lollygagging. They usually do not want to pay more than necessary or take longer than necessary. So tooling down the access road because it is slower or taking the scenic route is going to piss them off and they will bomb your rating. So you take the fastest route, but you don't speed. Come to a complete stop at stop signs and count off 2 seconds before going. Slow down going around turns. Do whatever you can to add time to the clock in the interest of the pax's "safety and comfort". Mileage is set, time is not.


How much money do you really think you're going to add to the fare with those b***S*** tactics I mean really, so if you come to 10 stop signs you can add 20 seconds to your fare, are you kidding me..


----------



## painfreepc

The_Mouser said:


> Depends on the debt load. If they don't have a lot of debt, then they could borrow long enough for the shareholders to force measures to increase profitability. Maybe right before the window opens for the current equity holders to be able to sell their shares. I know if I had equity in uber now, I would be trying to get my initial investment back as soon as I could and let the rest ride.


No you would not be trying to get your initial investment back, because if you was rich enough to have millions to invest into Uber, you would not be an Uber customer let alone an Uber driver, you would not have a clue as to what is going on..

As a millionaire as a businessman as a capitalist you would see all the other drivers picking up people you'll hear all the radio and see all the TV commercials,

And you would stay to yourself oh my God this uber thing is making a shitload of money in a few years I'm going to be a billionaire and

You would continue to drink the Uber Kool-Aid just like all the other Uber investors..


----------



## JaxUbermom

My question after all of this numerical and theoretical statistical debate from non Detroit drivers is... Is anyone in Detroit surviving or even thriving off those rates, and if so, how? Uber set those rates at that ridiculously low amount for some reason of their own. 

Gain rider share? Punish GM? Which is stupid because little of any cars are built in a once fine city. 

Were they preying on drivers in a decimated economy or trying to get every last dime from riders in the same economy? Both? 

What logical (no trolling) in their minds , reasoning did they have, and if it was so disastrous, why are people driving?
Either way, why are people still driving there, and are they paying their bills or not? Because if they are, you can damned sure vet that if we DO NOT HOLD the line and educate drivers outside the internet and UPNF zone that accepting base rate rides is just saying YES to Uber, we are all screwed in the next round.
There has not been enough pushback, but some. Uber gets to push the blame for surge back on drivers, then leads in with $500 for 75 rides in markets like LA, which this week was dropped to $300 but with an expanded map... And yes, people made those bonus challenges but surge was non existent. ...
This is all one big constant pricing experiment by Uber and one thing is certain...only they make money because they get commissions off us and that fee from the riders.


----------



## Chef Aarron

I_Like_Spam said:


> Insurance was included in the $58 lease. The Yellow Cab company made money from the transaction.
> 
> When I was driving it was $1.80 when they got into the cab, $1.40 a mile and gasoline was $1.10 a gallon. A day with $200 on the meter would be 30 trips, 100 compensable miles and maybe a total of 180 miles with took $20 in gas as a 92 Caprice wasn't that thrifty.
> 
> Insurance was included in the lease, as was a tow truck if needed, dispatching services. YC provided all of that for the $58, and were happy to do it as they were making a profit.
> 
> Marginal rate means what you can make by running another trip. The lease was a fixed price whether you made a lot of trips or just a few, the only variable was gasoline which was about a dime a mile in that car. Net margin was a buck thirdy, gross $1.40.
> 
> Sure on a busy day 35% of the money brought in went to YC, but the margins were pretty low which were encouragement to get out there and make trips.


Are you really trying to make a case that fixed costs don't count on a calculation of average profit per mile!? You can argue semantics all you want about marginal profit vs profit, the fact remains that at at the end of the day you're per mile rate is reduced by ALL your expenses.


----------



## RichR

Chef Aarron said:


> Are you really trying to make a case that fixed costs don't count on a calculation of average profit per mile!? You can argue semantics all you want about marginal profit vs profit, the fact remains that at at the end of the day you're per mile rate is reduced by ALL your expenses.


But, if you're deciding whether or not to drive for Uber using the car you already own, fixed costs don't enter into the decision. I'm paying for (some) insurance and time-based depreciation whether I'm driving for Uber or it's parked in the garage.


----------



## Chef Aarron

Luberon said:


> Acc
> 
> According to AAA it costs .45c/mile to own a small sedan in the US in 2015.... So most markets on .90c/mile are running at cost at best if you account for dead miles
> http://exchange.aaa.com/automobiles-travel/automobiles/driving-costs/#.Vu_h8FUrLGI


Again, expenses to drive vary widely from driver to driver and from vehicle to vehicle. Personal insurance and registration are NOT expenses of driving Uber. You would have those anyway. That AAA number also includes maintenance. I do not take my car to a shop for maintenance or minor repairs - I do it myself. Enormous cost savings there! It also depends greatly on the vehicle how much depreciation expense it's in the mix. The only way to know your cost per mile is to calculate it! The IRS and AAA can't tell you!


----------



## Chef Aarron

RichR said:


> But, if you're deciding whether or not to drive for Uber using the car you already own, fixed costs don't enter into the decision. I'm paying for (some) insurance and time-based depreciation whether I'm driving for Uber or it's parked in the garage.


Mostly correct, but not quite. Some drivers do carry commercial insurance of their own. Also some maintenance items are more time based than mileage based. For example, wiper blades - they degrade over time due to exposure to UV not because of the miles driven.

My point was aimed at the cab driver renting his cab every day, though, which is a fixed cost.


----------



## RichR

Chef Aarron said:


> Mostly correct, but not quite. Some drivers do carry commercial insurance of their own. Also some maintenance items are more time based than mileage based. For example, wiper blades - they degrade over time due to exposure to UV not because of the miles driven.
> 
> My point was aimed at the cab driver renting his cab every day, though, which is a fixed cost.


How is what I posted "not quite" correct? Any _*fixed cost*_ shouldn't enter into the equation for determining how much it's costing you to drive for Uber using a car you already own. If you're buying additional insurance, that's _*not*_ a fixed cost. "Wiper blades"? Now you're straining gnat poop out of the pepper shaker.


----------



## I_Like_Spam

Chef Aarron said:


> Are you really trying to make a case that fixed costs don't count on a calculation of average profit per mile!? You can argue semantics all you want about marginal profit vs profit, the fact remains that at at the end of the day you're per mile rate is reduced by ALL your expenses.


No, not at all. Of course fixed expenses count. But a low marginal rate increases your profits exponentially when business is good. It is a different situation than what you have with Uber where they dip their beaks into every trip you take and changes the calculus of the driver as to whether or not a trip is worth making.


----------



## Chef Aarron

TwoFiddyMile said:


> $2.50 per mile and .50 per minute at speeds between 0-14MPH is indeed revenue, as our failed chef has pointed out.
> Revenue-expense=profit.
> I definitely profit, unlike the majority of Uber owner ops who take a loss at tax time.
> Dont get me wrong, taking a loss could be a benefit for part timers whom would otherwise owe.
> But your car is also a loss at anything less than $150 per mile .30 per minute.
> Why? Simple.
> Part of your revenue must be allocated to car maintenance and replacement.
> Once you expense out tires, parts, labor, gas, most of you in .90 or less markets have nothing left over to replace your car with.
> 
> ...Unless you use your paycheck from your Line Cook job.


First of all, I am a personal chef, not a line cook, and when I'm cooking for a client I make around $100 an hour, so I suggest you take your attitude somewhere else on that topic.

Second, I guarantee you I've done more analysis of my expenses than you're even capable of doing. I have calculated my cost per mile to the penny including everything down to the cost of wiper blades and including an allowance annually for major repairs. Since I have a vehicle with very little depreciation expense and I do my own maintenance, my cost is around $0.20 per mile.

Third, a loss at tax time (which I will not have) is not necessarily a real loss. For example, on my 2015 taxes, I will be deducting the full $0.575 mileage rate, but my actual expenses were around $0.20 a mile. Every mile I drove converted $0.375 of income from taxable to non-taxable. As far as Uncle Sam is concerned, I didn't make a lot, but tax returns are not reality.

If you think you're taking a real loss at anything less than $1.50 a mile and $0.30 a minute, you really suck at controlling your expenses!


----------



## Chef Aarron

RichR said:


> How is what I posted "not quite" correct? Any _*fixed cost*_ shouldn't enter into the equation for determining how much it's costing you to drive for Uber using a car you already own. If you're buying additional insurance, that's _*not*_ a fixed cost. "Wiper blades"? Now you're straining gnat poop out of the pepper shaker.


Additional insurance is a fixed cost.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Ride share or commercial insurance on a vehicle for the purposes of driving that vehicle is a cost. If you are skimming by on the Raiser insurance then your insurance would reman the same regardless. 
Aaron referring to wiper blades not being included is logical, but for the purpose of owning a vehicle, you should as an owner understand you have costs associated, and it is one thing Uber is trying to use to convince people that they don't need to have a car with all those extra costs when you can ride dirt cheap,with a personal chauffeur.


----------



## Chef Aarron

I_Like_Spam said:


> No, not at all. Of course fixed expenses count. But a low marginal rate increases your profits exponentially when business is good. It is a different situation than what you have with Uber where they dip their beaks into every trip you take and changes the calculus of the driver as to whether or not a trip is worth making.


And that's a mistake many make in the analysis. Uber dipping in every trip does NOT change the equation one bit. The booking fee is irrelevant as it is not a cost to the driver, it's a cost to the rider. Uber could make the booking fee any amount and it would not change your earnings one penny. The commission is also not relevant to determining whether or not to take a trip because all it does is reduce the rate by the same per mile and minute amount whether it's a 50 mile trip or a 2 block trip.

If you didn't even know about the booking fee and they just told you the rate was $0.52 instead of $0.65, your income would be exactly the same. If they upped the rate and upped the commission to make the same net, your income would be the same. If the booking fee were $100, and people were still willing to pay it, your income would be the same.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Chef Aarron said:


> And that's a mistake many make in the analysis. Uber dipping in every trip does NOT change the equation one bit. The booking fee is irrelevant as it is not a cost to the driver, it's a cost to the rider. Uber could make the booking fee any amount and it would not change your earnings one penny. The commission is also not relevant to determining whether or not to take a trip because all it does is reduce the rate by the same per mile and minute amount whether it's a 50 mile trip or a 2 block trip.
> 
> If you didn't even know about the booking fee and they just told you the rate was $0.52 instead of $0.65, your income would be exactly the same. If they upped the rate and upped the commission to make the same net, your income would be the same. If the booking fee were $100, and people were still willing to pay it, your income would be the same.


Except on your 1099 and it would make you look rich, but then deduct those fees. Which is atrick Uber used to imply people made more money than they did. Kind of sucks. And the fact that the booking fee is deducted from the minimum fare amount.


----------



## Chef Aarron

JaxUbermom said:


> Ride share or commercial insurance on a vehicle for the purposes of driving that vehicle is a cost. If you are skimming by on the Raiser insurance then your insurance would reman the same regardless.
> Aaron referring to wiper blades not being included is logical, but for the purpose of owning a vehicle, you should as an owner understand you have costs associated, and it is one thing Uber is trying to use to convince people that they don't need to have a car with all those extra costs when you can ride dirt cheap,with a personal chauffeur.


Well, that is an entirely different discussion! Of course that is part of the puzzle, though.


----------



## Chef Aarron

JaxUbermom said:


> Except on your 1099 and it would make you look rich, but then deduct those fees. Which is atrick Uber used to imply people made more money than they did. Kind of sucks. And the fact that the booking fee is deducted from the minimum fare amount.


Well, that comes down to knowing what a 1099K really is! I chuckle at the thought of how many drivers are probably paying way too much in taxes because they don't keep good records and think the 1099K reports income!

The minimum fare has always been adjusted to reflect changes in the booking fee. In fact the last change took the booking fee from $1 to $2.05 but the mini fare went from $4 to $5.50, so we actually came out $0.45 ahead. If the fee really is a booking fee, it makes sense that it should be in all trips. Now if we think the mini should be higher, which I do, that's a different nut to crack.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Chef Aarron said:


> Well, that is an entirely different discussion! Of course that is part of the puzzle, though.


It backs up your position that insurance cannot be used to complain about Uber rates, unless it's additional. And that is an absolute fact.
As is the fact Uber is aggressively trying to market itself as the end all be all for transportation and delivery means. If it rolls, it's Uber should be their new slogan. They have an aggressive agenda to control the entire rolling markets. Anyone who can show me proof otherwise will get a cookie


----------



## Chef Aarron

JaxUbermom said:


> It backs up your position that insurance cannot be used to complain about Uber rates, unless it's additional. And that is an absolute fact.
> As is the fact Uber is aggressively trying to market itself as the end all be all for transportation and delivery means. If it rolls, it's Uber should be their new slogan. They have an aggressive agenda to control the entire rolling markets. Anyone who can show me proof otherwise will get a cookie


Can I just have a cookie for agreeing with you? I could really enjoy a cookie right now.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Chef Aarron I have one question relevant to this thread. No cynicism or sarcasm. What is your minimum rate you would drive for, in the style you drive, with your expense accounting the way you do? Because that... Is the question that Uber wants to know from all of us. 
Without tricks like bonuses, incentives, and all the crap Uber pulls on drivers to influence their driving patterns and times, etc. what would YOU DRIVE FOR?


----------



## Chef Aarron

JaxUbermom said:


> Chef Aarron I have one question relevant to this thread. No cynicism or sarcasm. What is your minimum rate you would drive for, in the style you drive, with your expense accounting the way you do? Because that... Is the question that Uber wants to know from all of us.
> Without tricks like bonuses, incentives, and all the crap Uber pulls on drivers to influence their driving patterns and times, etc. what would YOU DRIVE FOR?


Not much less than where it is now. That is dependent on what strategy can work, though, not just the rate. I mean, not much less than what I'm currently making bottom line. You didn't know me when I first started, but I have already adjusted my strategy to the new rates. I rarely do any significant amount of early day driving, for example, because it is nearly impossible to string trips together fast enough to meet the per hour numbers I'm comfortable with and the dead miles are higher because of less supply of drivers. My breaking point will be when the rates drop to where there is literally no strategy remaining that can make the numbers acceptable.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Chef Aarron said:


> Not much less than where it is now. That is dependent on what strategy can work, though, not just the rate. I mean, not much less than what I'm currently making bottom line. You didn't know me when I first started, but I have already adjusted my strategy to the new rates. I rarely do any significant amount of early day driving, for example, because it is nearly impossible to string trips together fast enough to meet the per hour numbers I'm comfortable with and the dead miles are higher because of less supply of drivers. My breaking point will be when the rates drop to where there is literally no strategy remaining that can make the numbers acceptable.


One would think, based on Uber's supposed supply and demand pricing model that early mornings and other low driver ability times would be an instant hit and thereby even out driver supply, right? Let's face it, only drunks not wanting a DUI or people who compare us to taxi fares-in most markets- will pay a surge. And that defeats Uber's current game plan of making it a household name before the (eventual, someday in the future, galaxy far far away) replacement with the dreaded autonomous car...

The end of this thread really is this: Uber's stated stance is that their desire to find what the minimum a driver will take, in relation to what a passenger pays, and their ability to take all of that in between will only be known when drivers stop driving even with whatever carrot is placed before them.

When they offer incentives, they know that is actually changing the threshold, but they love to add caveats to reduce their exposure, both to scammers, and in general if they can flood the market with try hards... They will not increase fares because the try hards don't make it required, and they damned sure don't want to pay the scammers. The guy in between that wants to drive when they want, the amount that they want and actually be happy with the job doesn't matter.
Any person that takes a base fare request and isn't doing it for an incentive is just helping them push us farther down.


----------



## Chef Aarron

JaxUbermom said:


> One would think, based on Uber's supposed supply and demand pricing model that early mornings and other low driver ability times would be an instant hit and thereby even out driver supply, right? Let's face it, only drunks not wanting a DUI or people who compare us to taxi fares-in most markets- will pay a surge. And that defeats Uber's current game plan of making it a household name before the (eventual, someday in the future, galaxy far far away) replacement with the dreaded autonomous car...
> 
> The end of this thread really is this: Uber's stated stance is that their desire to find what the minimum a driver will take, in relation to what a passenger pays, and their ability to take all of that in between will only be known when drivers stop driving even with whatever carrot is placed before them.
> 
> When they offer incentives, they know that is actually changing the threshold, but they love to add caveats to reduce their exposure, both to scammers, and in general if they can flood the market with try hards... They will not increase fares because the try hards don't make it required, and they damned sure don't want to pay the scammers. The guy in between that wants to drive when they want, the amount that they want and actually be happy with the job doesn't matter.
> Any person that takes a base fare request and isn't doing it for an incentive is just helping them push us farther down.


It all comes down to one simple truth - drivers are a commodity. That's business. Commodities are priced by supply and demand.


----------



## secretadmirer

The only so-called "strategy" or "driving smartly" for uber is not driving for them at all. 65cents/mile. hahahahahahahaha. It's not quite April fools day. But feel free to keep posting about how you can make tons of money driving uberX at these "sweatshop" rates. I needed a good chuckle. 

The secretadmirer is chortling!!!


----------



## tohellwithu

Stop driving for uber. Problem solved. Whats the point of ranting on the site about pay when u all are ready to driver as soon as you logout of this site. So wake up and find a freaking job.


----------



## I_Like_Spam

Chef Aarron said:


> Bottom line for people like you, though, is that just because YOU can't make money doing Uber doesn't mean you can't make money. The constant barrage here of incompetents screaming about how everyone driving is a loser who just doesn't know they aren't making money is not productive!


You are right, there are ways to make money ubering- there are ways to make money doing anything.

But the constant barrage of ads on the radio make it seem as if there is nothing to it, and anyone can do it.


----------



## Chef Aarron

I_Like_Spam said:


> You are right, there are ways to make money ubering- there are ways to make money doing anything.
> 
> But the constant barrage of ads on the radio make it seem as if there is nothing to it, and anyone can do it.


Don't you think a certain amount of due diligence should be expected from drivers? Ads are ads. Ads for fruit loops make it sound like it's the greatest breakfast cereal ever. Should a parent say Kellogg's is a bunch of lying crooks out to cheat them if their kid doesn't like the fruit loops?

Even the most cursory examination of the facts tells the story that or contracts give all the pricing power to Uber. Anyone who went in thinking it was reliable income that could safely be their only livelihood is a fool from day one.


----------



## tohunt4me

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Answer to OP:
> Detroit is the current low in North America @.30 mile/.30 minute.
> 
> And people still drive.
> Sorry!


Yet the 30 cents a minute is enviable.


----------



## wk1102

JaxUbermom said:


> If your pax meant 2x as in one leg up and one leg down, then basically you are doing base fare up and back. And UNLESS YOU ARE COMMERCIALLY INSURED DO NOT WORK OFF AP. the whopping 12.00 extra you get for staying on his ride, on the ap is small compensation, but you might also need to consider the UBer cap on fare, miles. Have him sit in the car and restart the ride. You can drive up here so it doesn't matter. Whatever you do, never come on a public forum and discuss working off the ap without being fully licensed and insured. And I know you , wk1102 don't mean that. We have had too many intelligent conversations to even suspect you of such... Just pointing out for all the lurkers hoping to learn by reading.


I wasn't planning on going off app, I would never too much down side. I meant my rates x2 as in each leg being 1. The rate here is 1.15 per mile and .15 per minute for for x. I'm not planning on driving off app, if I were the rates in Jax wouldn't matter.

We discussed the rate here as the rate for the whole trip. It's a business expense for him, we came up with this, im going to do the trip on my xl account but in my x mobile. Should be about 550-600miles round trip. It's 2.00 /.20 here. It should be around 1000 for the trip, this works out better, he is also going to pay for gas used. He's happy with the arrangement, I'm happy with it... Jax xl is almost the same as x here. .05/min difference.

It should be right around 1000 gross unfortunately Uber will get a take of it all, there will be a tip, but not as much as originally discussed.

It's a business trip and he does not like to fly. He needs to get some work done while enroute. For me, I never get 500 paid miles in a day. Usually that's a week, a good week so.... My area is slow, only surges at 2am weekends so it's not like I'll be losing money by waiting, I agreed to it and really don't mind, I can find a restaurant and get a decent lunch. Anything over 2 hours wait he said he'd take care of me.

His company is footing the bill, cash is complicated as far as getting approval and reimbursed. I'd much rather do the x-rates and a nice tip, if we can work that out before Thursday that's the way we will go. Regardless it's a nice payout for me...

He was really cool about it, I had already committed to doing it and would have hated to have to go back on my word. He said as long as the trip was under 1000 he didn't care, something about the expense account.


----------



## Uberwagoner

JapanFour said:


> I think after a while the revolving door wont work out for them. They obviously have an upperhand on how they advertise, but the reality coming from each city doesnt look good, given that most downtown areas would like the right to organize.


I have tried other types of app service companies in my area of Dallas-Fort Worth. DoorDash is worse than Uber as the ability to get a small order delivered within 59 minutes or less is not always possible due to traffic or the fact that the customer orders food/drink from some place that is not yet open for the day. I also had customers on DoorDash get upset because I was "too freakin' far away" to pickup their order and deliver it on time.


----------



## secretadmirer

.Due diligence expected from drivers ??????? Travis must be very proud of you cheffy. We need your input on this thread "reality shark".


----------



## negeorgia

I would never recommend doing Uber with a car payment or in a car you actually need. Non surge rides should only be done by hobbyists or from pick ups less than 2 minutes away. Uber off until surge. If you have no income, you have no taxes. Uber is a great way to have no income. Your results may vary. Make a small emergency fund a priority while repaying debt early. If you have no debt repayment plan, then you have no debt repayment.... plan.


----------



## Chef Aarron

secretadmirer said:


> .Due diligence expected from drivers ??????? Travis must be very proud of you cheffy. We need your input on this thread "reality shark".


Travis would hate drivers like me. Many of the drivers grinding away now would never do it if they had done a bit of diligence in seeing if the numbers worked for them. Doing due diligence before making a business commitment is also known as behaving like an adult.


----------



## secretadmirer

"I would never recommend doing Uber with a car payment or in a car you actually need. Non surge rides should only be done by hobbyists or from pick ups less than 2 minutes away. Uber off until surge. If you have no income, you have no taxes. Uber is a great way to have no income. Your results may vary. Make a small emergency fund a priority while repaying debt early. If you have no debt repayment plan, then you have no debt repayment.... plan."

Very well put. Maybe the schwartz be with you.


----------



## JaxUbermom

wk1102 said:


> I wasn't planning on going off app, I would never too much down side. I meant my rates x2 as in each leg being 1. The rate here is 1.15 per mile and .15 per minute for for x. I'm not planning on driving off app, if I were the rates in Jax wouldn't matter.
> 
> We discussed the rate here as the rate for the whole trip. It's a business expense for him, we came up with this, im going to do the trip on my xl account but in my x mobile. Should be about 550-600miles round trip. It's 2.00 /.20 here. It should be around 1000 for the trip, this works out better, he is also going to pay for gas used. He's happy with the arrangement, I'm happy with it... Jax xl is almost the same as x here. .05/min difference.
> 
> It should be right around 1000 gross unfortunately Uber will get a take of it all, there will be a tip, but not as much as originally discussed.
> 
> It's a business trip and he does not like to fly. He needs to get some work done while enroute. For me, I never get 500 paid miles in a day. Usually that's a week, a good week so.... My area is slow, only surges at 2am weekends so it's not like I'll be losing money by waiting, I agreed to it and really don't mind, I can find a restaurant and get a decent lunch. Anything over 2 hours wait he said he'd take care of me.
> 
> His company is footing the bill, cash is complicated as far as getting approval and reimbursed. I'd much rather do the x-rates and a nice tip, if we can work that out before Thursday that's the way we will go. Regardless it's a nice payout for me...
> 
> He was really cool about it, I had already committed to doing it and would have hated to have to go back on my word. He said as long as the trip was under 1000 he didn't care, something about the expense account.


It all sounded good except when you got to the swapping vehicles part... Other than that, I know for certain the trip may cause you pay problems due their limits set. I know asking customer service for assistance will be crap, but if you can get one drone to tell you it's ok, and keep the email, you may be able to use it to fight for the fare later. I am NOT trying to be Debbie Downer for you. I do t want you to lose out on money you will legally and rightfully earn, it sounds like, and we can meet at whole foods or costco and eat all the freebies!!!! Lol

It's a potentially good run, and I hope it works out for you!


----------



## JaxUbermom

Uberwagoner said:


> I have tried other types of app service companies in my area of Dallas-Fort Worth. DoorDash is worse than Uber as the ability to get a small order delivered within 59 minutes or less is not always possible due to traffic or the fact that the customer orders food/drink from some place that is not yet open for the day. I also had customers on DoorDash get upset because I was "too freakin' far away" to pickup their order and deliver it on time.


What about GetMe? Isn't that Texas only or is it even more regional still?


----------



## RockinEZ

LondonONTdriver said:


> Uber has already been cannibalizing itself. It's just how long it can go on for..


Actually that is not true. Uber is just munching on it's drivers.

Uber has made it very clear that the drivers are not part of Uber. 
Contractors is the word they use.

Doesn't matter what they call us, we ain't them. They remind us all the time.


----------



## RockinEZ

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Answer to OP:
> Detroit is the current low in North America @.30 mile/.30 minute.
> 
> And people still drive.
> Sorry!


With a 3X surge they are making .90/mile. 
Ninety cents per mile is the current San Diego rate.

A lot of drivers dropped out completely, or like me went back to school, and only drive occasionally.

I only drive on Thur-Sun if I drive. I don't always drive every week, just when I think I will need a bit more cash to make ends meet until I get a real job.


----------



## RockinEZ

Greguzzi said:


> What? Google? Facebook? Apple? Amazon? etc., etc., etc.
> 
> Uber is the outlier, not American businesses.


The entire corporate world lives for the current quarter. 
Their entire world is based on that 3 month period, until quarter's end, and it starts all over.

If corporations can't get out of the pressure by stock holders to make profit this quarter, we are doomed to this vicious cycle of corporations eating their tail for temporary gains.


----------



## Chef Aarron

RockinEZ said:


> With a 3X surge they are making .90/mile.
> Ninety cents per mile is the current San Diego rate.
> 
> A lot of drivers dropped out completely, or like me went back to school, and only drive occasionally.
> 
> I only drive on Thur-Sun if I drive. I don't always drive every week, just when I think I will need a bit more cash to make ends meet until I get a real job.


With a 3X surge at a very typical 30 mph average, they're making $2.70 a mile. That is unless they're teleporting to the destination.


----------



## RockinEZ

RichR said:


> Good question. Like most of us, I'm very often "logged on" (app open) but Offline waiting for a Surge. In fact, at my day job, I'll sit at my desk with the app open all day long. And on the rare occasion that there's a big Surge citywide, I'll Go Online and head for my car. I think Uber "knows" that, meaning they're collecting that data from every driver.
> 
> If so, Uber knows how willing we are to work their "slave wages" and who isn't. Moreover, Uber knows our behavior, collectively and individually.
> 
> They surely also know which users' screens are displaying the pax app and, of those, how many are registered drivers and have the driver app running in the background.
> 
> It only makes sense that Uber would be using all the data available to them.


You do know you are just chasing surges, right?

That is the best way to kill a surge. Follow that method and you will make no money off Uber. 
You have to stealth into a area you know will surge, and wait for the surge to surround you.

Newbies will kill that surge pretty quickly, but you will have your fare and will be headed off at 3x rates.

Don't chase surges. It is not profitable.


----------



## RockinEZ

Chef Aarron said:


> With a 3X surge at a very typical 30 mph average, they're making $2.70 a mile. That is unless they're teleporting to the destination.


Hell, at least in San Diego we can make a few bucks off a 3.2x surge. That is $2.88/mile. Just about the minimum I will drive for.


----------



## RockinEZ

OrlandoUberX said:


> I saw a new driver in downtown Orlando the other night. Still had the paper tag on his car.


I get a sick feeling in my stomach when I see a new Prius with a new Uber driver in it. 
I know that Prius will be repossessed within a year if the driver doesn't find a real job soon.


----------



## RockinEZ

Chef Aarron said:


> Whatever, dude. Save it for someone dumb enough to believe you.


TwoFiddyMile know of what he speaks. 
Listen to him. 
He does drive a cab, but he is one of the good guys on this forum.


----------



## RockinEZ

20yearsdriving said:


> Your Chef knowledge works well in this driving Gig


We had a TV Chef drive his UberX into a party bus at 100mph in downtown San Diego two weeks ago. 
Something about people that call themselves chef and Uber is not working out all that well.


----------



## RockinEZ

Bart McCoy said:


> This is sad. Once it dropped to 30cent a mile,people should have quit instanlty. Making it surge ridiculously,and making Uber raise rates in weeks. But...nope. People are driving like its a raise. Anything less than $1/mile really isnt worth driving for. Anything less than $1/mile that include the per min rate (like the 90cent math yall calculated) certainly aint worth it.
> 
> I think Uber can drop it to 5cent/miles and 35/cents a minute and they'll be no surges. You drivers gotta wise up


Who the hell would stay in Detroit for any reason?
Terrible weather, no jobs, lots of crime.

The only thing Detroit has going for it are the empty houses left by the smart people that left that hell hole.


----------



## RockinEZ

kalanicksabead said:


> I think the national cost right now to operate a vehicle is 54 cents per mile.
> That includes gas and depreciation on your car.
> 
> So take the 90 cents you make per mile from uber and subtract 54 cents.
> 
> that comes out toe 36 cents a mile you are really earning in profit.
> 
> people dont seem to understand this.


Why do so many quote the tax deduction as the cost of operation?
It just ain't so.

In SoCal with insurance, depreciation, fuel, and maintenance costs you can operate a VW Jetta for $0.30 to $0.35/mile.


----------



## RockinEZ

I_Like_Spam said:


> If the poster says that taxi in Charlotte charges $2.50 a mile, it sounds legit. Yellow Cab of Pittsburgh was charging $1.80 for the 1st 7th of a mile and $1.40 a mile after when I was driving 20 years ago and prices have certainly gone up a bit since. $2.50 looks like a reasonable price.


A taxi in San Diego is $3.30/mile and a hefty per minute fee. 
Uber is ninety cents per mile and ten cents per minute.

Taxi cabs still seem to be making money in San Diego even with the super cheap Uber undercutting their rates.


----------



## SurfCityDriver

Drivers can do something by organizing, which makes the workers stronger but also gets the message out to the public: 






JapanFour said:


> So I have kind of wondered, how much can these companies lower driver pay rates? Where I live in the inland empire, the pay comes out to less than minimum wage, and sometimes worse. You can end up losing money.
> 
> How is this legal now, and whats stopping uber/lyft from paying even less? Where is the thresh hold where the drivers just stop driving all together?
> 
> What can drivers do to combat this financial atrophy?


----------



## RockinEZ

If drivers were serious about organizing they would start with the AFLCIO. 

I have been in unions more than once. After all the talk is over, they take your dues and nothing changes. I don't want anything to do with unions. 

Organizers should be careful what they are wishing for.


----------



## Chef Aarron

RockinEZ said:


> If drivers were serious about organizing they would start with the AFLCIO.
> 
> I have been in unions more than once. After all the talk is over, they take your dues and nothing changes. I don't want anything to do with unions.
> 
> Organizers should be careful what they are wishing for.


Especially since:

1. We all know there is a steady supply of willing drivers.

2. Our contracts say access to the platform can be denied at any time, with or without cause.

3. Labor laws that prevent firing for unionizing do not apply to independent contractors in most cases.

The unuonization and employee status drum beats are extraordinarily short sighted and, frankly, show that many drivers would be better suited to being an employee elsewhere, and even more druvers have no understanding of what being an independent contractor means.


----------



## RockinEZ

Chef Aarron said:


> Yeah, it is easier to quit than to use brain cells. I guess the $5,283.43 I've made year to date with around $1,400 in expenses working only 30 out of the 81 days so far for a total of about 300 hours is all imaginary! LOL! But yeah, I can see how $13+ an hour after all expenses for sitting on my ass in a car whenever I want and wherever I want is really horrible! Definitely would be a better approach to make $0.
> 
> Is Uber driving gonna make anyone rich? No. Would it work as my only income? No. Should anyone expect to make tons of money? Only if they can't read the contract they signed. Do I think the rates should be quite a bit higher? Absolutely!
> 
> Bottom line for people like you, though, is that just because YOU can't make money doing Uber doesn't mean you can't make money. The constant barrage here of incompetents screaming about how everyone driving is a loser who just doesn't know they aren't making money is not productive!


Dude, re-read your posts. 
What planet are you on?

Planet Uber where facts are flexible?


----------



## Chef Aarron

SurfCityDriver said:


> Drivers can do something by organizing, which makes the workers stronger but also gets the message out to the public:


So, this guy hates Uber so much, yet he still drives? Dude, you always have the option to quit. Frankly, if he bad mouths to the press, Uber should fire him. Period.


----------



## Chef Aarron

RockinEZ said:


> Dude, re-read your posts.
> What planet are you on?
> 
> Planet Uber where facts are flexible?


What facts have I changed? Zero.


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield

RichR said:


> I'm thinking their plan includes cashing out with an IPO when they decide the time is right. Then, investors can watch the empire waste away.


Investors have already told "The Truthbuster" that they (UBER) don't have enough guaranteed retained revenue to make the IPO sellable. This is why certain fixed fees and UBER's commission were increased ....This combined with the elimination of cancellation fees (in many markets like mine)is why drivers are walking away in droves. This is why there are threads like this one. UBER has broken trust with their "partners" There will be no IPO....UBER is on a road to destruction


----------



## kideyse

RockinEZ said:


> We had a TV Chef drive his UberX into a party bus at 100mph in downtown San Diego two weeks ago.
> Something about people that call themselves chef and Uber is not working out all that well.


Particularly if they specialize in tossed salad


----------



## RockinEZ

kideyse said:


> Particularly if they specialize in tossed salad


The video is pretty good. Shows the guy in a 25 mph zone hit an empty party bus and destroy his car. The cops had to take him down put a spit mask on him and restrain him on the gurney. 
He was driving drunk of course. No pax in the car.


----------



## RockinEZ

Chef Aarron said:


> So, this guy hates Uber so much, yet he still drives? Dude, you always have the option to quit. Frankly, if he bad mouths to the press, Uber should fire him. Period.


They will. There is a clause in the agreement regarding damaging the Uber brand or name in any way. 
Check out the Deactivated part of this forum for many sad stories.

Don't go on TV or youtube and ***** about Uber if you want to continue to drive.


----------



## Chef Aarron

RockinEZ said:


> They will. There is a clause in the agreement regarding damaging the Uber brand or name in any way.
> Check out the Deactivated part of this forum for many sad stories.
> 
> Don't go on TV or youtube and ***** about Uber if you want to continue to drive.


As there is in virtually every agreement you'll ever sign as an independent contractor and should be! You don't bite the hand that feeds you just because you don't think they feed enough.


----------



## RockinEZ

One thing that is happening now that is a bit strange. 
Many people's first job is driving for a TNC now. Five year ago that could not happen. 

Fuber as your first job is not good. You don't learn any of the things that will make you a valuable employee once you get off the Fuber gig. 

There is a lot to say about McDonald's being a person's first job. 
They know how to train untrained workers. 
They know what to train them for and how. 
The new worker learns responsibility.

You don't get any of that at Fuber. 
You just turn on the app and wing it.


----------



## Chef Aarron

RockinEZ said:


> One thing that is happening now that is a bit strange.
> Many people's first job is driving for a TNC now. Five year ago that could not happen.
> 
> Fuber as your first job is not good. You don't learn any of the things that will make you a valuable employee once you get off the Fuber gig.
> 
> There is a lot to say about McDonald's being a person's first job.
> They know how to train untrained workers.
> They know what to train them for and how.
> The new worker learns responsibility.
> 
> You don't get any of that at Fuber.
> You just turn on the app and wing it.


Not to mention the total lack of business knowledge or acumen and maturity to behave professionally and ethically when no one is watching.

Would hope that's not so prevalent here as you have to be 21 here. God, I hope someone's not on their very first job at 21!


----------



## Luberon

.25c/mile...


----------



## Luberon

Chef Aarron said:


> Again, expenses to drive vary widely from driver to driver and from vehicle to vehicle. Personal insurance and registration are NOT expenses of driving Uber. You would have those anyway. That AAA number also includes maintenance. I do not take my car to a shop for maintenance or minor repairs - I do it myself. Enormous cost savings there! It also depends greatly on the vehicle how much depreciation expense it's in the mix. The only way to know your cost per mile is to calculate it! The IRS and AAA can't tell you!


Depreciated cars cost more to maintain... choose your poison wisely.


----------



## Chef Aarron

Luberon said:


> Depreciated cars cost more to maintain... choose your poison wisely.


True, but the extra that goes with a well maintained, reliable car, when I do the maintenance and all but the most difficult repairs myself isn't even close to the depreciation hit those first couple three years of a brand spanking new car. I figure into my cost per mile all scheduled maintenance and wear items as well as $1,500 per year allowance for major repairs. $1,500 because much more than that, I'm trading it in.


----------



## wk1102

JaxUbermom said:


> It all sounded good except when you got to the swapping vehicles part... Other than that, I know for certain the trip may cause you pay problems due their limits set. I know asking customer service for assistance will be crap, but if you can get one drone to tell you it's ok, and keep the email, you may be able to use it to fight for the fare later. I am NOT trying to be Debbie Downer for you. I do t want you to lose out on money you will legally and rightfully earn, it sounds like, and we can meet at whole foods or costco and eat all the freebies!!!! Lol
> 
> It's a potentially good run, and I hope it works out for you!


Sounds good I'll bring dessert, if we're lucky comfort Inn and suites will have raspberry danish that morning, I've discovered glazed doughnuts do not travel so well, plus they get full of pocket lint when I sneak them out of the hotel.

As far as the trip, it was his idea. I called him to explain and he suggested we do it on another platform. I'd prefer cash in addition to the Uber fare but... either way works for me.

The trip was originally planned in for x so I'm not switching cars, but I understand the concern and I'll definitely make sure he understands and is okay with it all.


----------



## Luberon

Chef Aarron said:


> True, but the extra that goes with a well maintained, reliable car, when I do the maintenance and all but the most difficult repairs myself isn't even close to the depreciation hit those first couple three years of a brand spanking new car. I figure into my cost per mile all scheduled maintenance and wear items as well as $1,500 per year allowance for major repairs. $1,500 because much more than that, I'm trading it in.


What then is your cost per mile?


----------



## Chef Aarron

Luberon said:


> What then is your cost per mile?


Well, with gas prices climbing lately, I'm probably up around $0.22 and a fraction. Would have said $0.20 up to about three weeks ago when gas here started a $0.40 a gallon climb!


----------



## Uber-Doober

RichR said:


> You're right, it's easy to make less than minimum wage. *Uber even promoted the idea *with their recent $10/hour guarantees (after Uber takes 28%, you're left with $7.20/hour _and that's before considering expenses!_). But, how is it not legal? Minimum wage doesn't apply here because we're not paid by the hour.
> 
> As long as new drivers keep signing up to replace drivers who figured it out, Uber can set fares even lower and/or set their cut higher.


^^^
Maybe it's not illegal, but might be if the goal is impossible to meet except for a few who just happen to be at the right place at the right time.... and you can bet that Uber will holding those people up as examples that it's possible. 
I have no idea what the percentage of drivers meet those goals, but something tells me that it's no more than about one in ten.... and that wouldn't stand up to scrutiny. 
Maybe 30 or 40 percent would be an equitable number to make an example.... but not some minuscule percentage that doesn't tell anything about the possibility to make any money with the platform except that it is NOT possible to make anything close to a living wage. Net.


----------



## Chef Aarron

Luberon said:


> What then is your cost per mile?


Actually, just redid some numbers. These are actual costs looked up on O'Reilly Auto Parts website, so they are current.

Depreciation (current KBB trade in average value $2,683, value as scrap if I drive it into the ground til it doesn't even run is about $400, so this is pretty much worst case) - $1,000/yr - $0.0200/mi

Fuel - $2.00/gal at 20 mpg - $0.10/mi

Oil change (full synthetic, so 10,000 mi intervals) - oil $26.99, filter $3.79, total $30.78 - $0.0031/mi.

Transmission flush and fill - 7 qts fluid $50.33, filter and pan gasket it $14.99, total $65.32 - interval 100,000 mi - $0.0007 per mi.

Brakes - all four wheels, ceramic pads $80.98, interval 50,000 mi - $0.0016/mi.

Radiator flush - 2 gallons non diluted dex cool coolant $29.98, interval 100,000 mi - $0.0003/mi.

Tires - set of 4, $500/60,000 - $0.0080/mi.

Air filter - $9.99/10,000 mi - $0.0010/mi.

Cabin air filter - $16.99 / 25,000 mi - $0.0007/mi.

Windshield wipers - 1 set front and rear per year $25.98 - $0.0005/mi.

Various turn signal and tail light bulbs - 4 pairs per year, $23.96 - $0.0005/mi.

Headlights - $29.99/50,000 mi - $0.0006/mi.

Fuel injector cleaner - $7.29/5,000 mi - $0.0014/mi.

Windshield washer fluid - $3.69/5,000 mi - $0.0007/mi

Allowance for major repairs - $1,500/50,000 mi - $0.0300/mi.

Add it all up, it's $0.1701/mile.


----------



## BiggestScamInHistory

How long is a car seriously going to last on those fast food level auto parts and supplies? Be cheap, & see where it gets you at 50 or 100 or more. 

When were synthetic oil changes only every 10,000 miles too?! Lol!! Of course you can save money if you let stuff go twice as long as you're supposed to. Do you eat only 1 meal a day to save costs on that also?

Anyone can easily get a reasonable & realistic cost/mile estimate by going to an independent mechanic shop & have them give you a list, price, and timetable schedule for all the repairs you will need for the 3-6 years of normal driving you will do driving s TNC in just 1 year. Add tires, and other insanely annoying items like new wipers every rime the cheap Chinese crap wears off and you'll realize the serious expenses you get running a car into the ground and having to keep it in good shape for fickle, entitled, spoilt riders who now EXPECT their own personal mints, gum, beverage, charger of choice, and aux cable for their own music at their choice of volume (along with 4-5 of their obnoxious friends who demand to share a ride in your 3-4-seater).

Above poster is another c Lk as sic TNC'er in denial.


----------



## BiggestScamInHistory

I read that list of his again, good God I couldn't even be more full of it if I tried. Lol!!!!

All bulbs last 50,000 miles now?! Cheap strip mall shop paper Air filters are the same shade as the Secret Services Suburban at 10k miles. 

Brake pads are recommended at around 2-3 years (30-36k miles) normal usage or lifetime everywhere last time I checked, not 1 year being a budget taxi on speed. 

Everyone, do yourselves a favor, DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING IN THAT POST TO HEART. His head is completely up another of his own body parts. For oroof, take it to any parts or repair shop and compare it to the recommended manufacturer schedules, or anyone with common sense or over the age of 14 who's driven a car in real life on planet Earth,


----------



## Chef Aarron

BiggestScamInHistory said:


> How long is a car seriously going to last on those fast food level auto parts and supplies? Be cheap, & see where it gets you at 50 or 100 or more.
> 
> When were synthetic oil changes only every 10,000 miles too?! Lol!! Of course you can save money if you let stuff go twice as long as you're supposed to. Do you eat only 1 meal a day to save costs on that also?
> 
> Anyone can easily get a reasonable & realistic cost/mile estimate by going to an independent mechanic shop & have them give you a list, price, and timetable schedule for all the repairs you will need for the 3-6 years of normal driving you will do driving s TNC in just 1 year. Add tires, and other insanely annoying items like new wipers every rime the cheap Chinese crap wears off and you'll realize the serious expenses you get running a car into the ground and having to keep it in good shape for fickle, entitled, spoilt riders who now EXPECT their own personal mints, gum, beverage, charger of choice, and aux cable for their own music at their choice of volume (along with 4-5 of their obnoxious friends who demand to share a ride in your 3-4-seater).
> 
> Above poster is another c Lk as sic TNC'er in denial.


Yeah, guess that's why the last car I had from near new so I knew from early on it was taken care if the way I take care of cars ran 230,000 miles without ever having a single mechanical issue before it met its end at the hands of a chick running a red light.

By the way, with full synthetic, you could go well over 10,000 miles between changs with a decent filter. Try it some time! On modern engines, at 10,000 miles that synthetic is clean as a whistle and proper viscosity well beyond that unless you drive like a maniac and stress your engine.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

BiggestScamInHistory said:


> I read that list of his again, good God I couldn't even be more full of it if I tried. Lol!!!!
> 
> All bulbs last 50,000 miles now?! Cheap strip mall shop paper Air filters are the same shade as the Secret Services Suburban at 10k miles.
> 
> Brake pads are recommended at around 2-3 years (30-36k miles) normal usage or lifetime everywhere last time I checked, not 1 year being a budget taxi on speed.
> 
> Everyone, do yourselves a favor, DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING IN THAT POST TO HEART. His head is completely up another of his own body parts. For oroof, take it to any parts or repair shop and compare it to the recommended manufacturer schedules, or anyone with common sense or over the age of 14 who's driven a car in real life on planet Earth,


He is creating his own reality

It will hit him eventually 
When his transmission gives on the # 2 lane of 405 fwy Friday @5pm 
The cheapest alternative will be to abandon the car & get a new one LOL!


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Chef Aarron said:


> Yeah, guess that's why the last car I had from near new so I knew from early on it was taken care if the way I take care of cars ran 230,000 miles without ever having a single mechanical issue before it met its end at the hands of a chick running a red light.
> 
> By the way, with full synthetic, you could go well over 10,000 miles between changs with a decent filter. Try it some time! On modern engines, at 10,000 miles that synthetic is clean as a whistle and proper viscosity well beyond that unless you drive like a maniac and stress your engine.


Yeah I go 20K miles on genetic oil ..... That is the least of my cost

I too am good with the tool box ( swapped engine & ****** in my driveway )

17 cent per mile LMAO!


----------



## Chef Aarron

BiggestScamInHistory said:


> I read that list of his again, good God I couldn't even be more full of it if I tried. Lol!!!!
> 
> All bulbs last 50,000 miles now?! Cheap strip mall shop paper Air filters are the same shade as the Secret Services Suburban at 10k miles.
> 
> Brake pads are recommended at around 2-3 years (30-36k miles) normal usage or lifetime everywhere last time I checked, not 1 year being a budget taxi on speed.
> 
> Everyone, do yourselves a favor, DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING IN THAT POST TO HEART. His head is completely up another of his own body parts. For oroof, take it to any parts or repair shop and compare it to the recommended manufacturer schedules, or anyone with common sense or over the age of 14 who's driven a car in real life on planet Earth,


If you're replacing bulbs that often, you likely have an electrical system issue. Notice, too that I referenced the price of 4 pairs of bulbs - tail lights, front turn signals, rear turn signals, and a spare pair for that occasional lower life bulb or two. Recommended service interval for an air filter is typically every 10,000-15,000 miles under abusive driving conditions such as extremely dusty environments or desert conditions. If you're replacing brake pads at 30,000 miles you're getting cheap ass organics or semi-metallics - ceramic pads last much longer.

You think your mechanic is going to give you accurate figures or inflated ones? You really are a sucker and clearly know nothing about the machine you waste your life in making no profit because your expenses are too high!


----------



## BiggestScamInHistory

Beachbum in a cornfield said:


> Investors have already told "The Truthbuster" that they (UBER) don't have enough guaranteed retained revenue to make the IPO sellable. This is why certain fixed fees and UBER's commission were increased ....This combined with the elimination of cancellation fees (in many markets like mine)is why drivers are walking away in droves. This is why there are threads like this one. UBER has broken trust with their "partners" There will be no IPO....UBER is on a road to destruction


Whatever actual profits Uber is making now, after all their expenses like marketing, bribing government & airport officials, media writers, (and Lyft employees), spamming job boards to recruit new fresh meat to sick the life out of, their 3rd world email only customer service centers, and their partner support offices filled with no employee over the age of 30, it's about as much as they will ever make. They are in every major or mid sized city in America now in every state, internationally, they're still only growing their footprint in the 3rd world and maybe Europe.

The big profit only comes when the drivers are eliminated & they can mass produce cheap self driving cars in China or Vietnam or wherever the hell else, and control and profit off every single step of the business chain.

Their treatment of drivers from day 1 has shown that they're just sn jnfortu ate cog in the wheel they gave to use to get to the next step, the real plan from the beginning.


----------



## Chef Aarron

BiggestScamInHistory said:


> I read that list of his again, good God I couldn't even be more full of it if I tried. Lol!!!!
> 
> All bulbs last 50,000 miles now?! Cheap strip mall shop paper Air filters are the same shade as the Secret Services Suburban at 10k miles.
> 
> Brake pads are recommended at around 2-3 years (30-36k miles) normal usage or lifetime everywhere last time I checked, not 1 year being a budget taxi on speed.
> 
> Everyone, do yourselves a favor, DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING IN THAT POST TO HEART. His head is completely up another of his own body parts. For oroof, take it to any parts or repair shop and compare it to the recommended manufacturer schedules, or anyone with common sense or over the age of 14 who's driven a car in real life on planet Earth,


By the way, Chevy's maintenance schedule lists air filter replacement as every 30,000-45,000 miles depending on the vehicle. I actually do more frequent than that because a lot of idling tends to cause faster filter soiling.


----------



## Chef Aarron

BiggestScamInHistory said:


> I read that list of his again, good God I couldn't even be more full of it if I tried. Lol!!!!
> 
> All bulbs last 50,000 miles now?! Cheap strip mall shop paper Air filters are the same shade as the Secret Services Suburban at 10k miles.
> 
> Brake pads are recommended at around 2-3 years (30-36k miles) normal usage or lifetime everywhere last time I checked, not 1 year being a budget taxi on speed.
> 
> Everyone, do yourselves a favor, DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING IN THAT POST TO HEART. His head is completely up another of his own body parts. For oroof, take it to any parts or repair shop and compare it to the recommended manufacturer schedules, or anyone with common sense or over the age of 14 who's driven a car in real life on planet Earth,


As far as synthetic oil the recommended change interval with full synthetic ranges from Ford at the low end recommending 7,500 miles to Jaguar at the high end recommending 15,000. Toyota and Hyundai are both currently recommending 10,000.


----------



## secretadmirer

Then you have to toss in the commercial insurance (if indeed he has it).

"The cheapest alternative will be to abandon the car & get a new one LOL!" Agreed! And one that runs on water!


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Is that your old avatar wink wink


----------



## Chef Aarron

secretadmirer said:


> Then you have to toss in the commercial insurance (if indeed he has it).
> 
> "The cheapest alternative will be to abandon the car & get a new one LOL!" Agreed! And one that runs on water!


It's really a shame you are so completely misinformed and ignorant. If you actually did the minimum of research, you'd find that every single item I mentioned is dead on accurate or to the safe side. If you actually managed your expenses you might actually be able to make some money!

So, secretingadmirer, biggestscuminhistory, and 20yearsstriving, let's see your expense analysis! Oh that's right, yours is just $0.54 a mile because that's what the IRS tells you! LOL!


----------



## secretadmirer

"Is that your old avatar wink wink" Bingo! About six or seven avatars ago.

The secret admirer is chortling and snorkling!


----------



## 20yearsdriving

secretadmirer said:


> "Is that your old avatar wink wink" Bingo! About six or seven avatars ago.
> 
> The secret admirer is chortling and snorkling!


Look what you guys turned me in to .... Fuber


----------



## Chef Aarron

Still waiting for that expense analysis, there, guys! If you're so smart, let's see it!


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Chef Aarron said:


> Still waiting for that expense analysis, there, guys! If you're so smart, let's see it!


I work from the top down


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Chef Aarron

Add 600.00 in cash to that

You're better sticking with your pots & pans


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

RichR said:


> But, if you're deciding whether or not to drive for Uber using the car you already own, fixed costs don't enter into the decision. I'm paying for (some) insurance and time-based depreciation whether I'm driving for Uber or it's parked in the garage.


I'm paying for every room in my house, whether I use it or not, but that doesn't mean I'll let a stranger live in it for a fraction of the going rental rate for a room in my neighborhood.

Yet that's your rationale for letting a stranger in your car for a pittance.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

"Hey son, i paid for 5 semesters of CIA classical european chef training for you... do you have a full time gig yet?"

"Oh NO daddy i choke the occasional private client, but I'm becoming the greatest Uber metrics cruncher EVER!"

Success. We all spell it our own way.


----------



## Jiynks

I thinl of mcdonalds when i think of uber. Like everyone knows McDonald's food is trash but yet it sells and sells. Now if McDonalds trash food didnt sell im sure they would find a way to met profitable demand.
With drivers still driving at low rates whether surge or not theyre still selling thier product hand over foot. 
Now..
There is no problem untill theres a problem.
Uber like ever company engaged in commerce, likely has the mind set of profit. Sooo.. They will likey cut and save where ever possible and likey try and increase and gain where its avalible.


----------



## secretadmirer

Since cheffy had the decently to disclose his numbers, I felt obliged to share my expenses incurred from driving uber the last couple of months.

here it is:


Fuel - $0.00/gal at 0 mpg - $0.00/mi

Oil change (full synthetic, so 0 mi intervals) - oil $00.00, filter $0.oo, total $0.00 - $0.00/mi.

Transmission flush and fill - 0 qts fluid $0.00, filter and pan gasket it $00.00, total $00.00 - interval 00 mi - $0.0000 per mi.

Brakes - all four wheels, ceramic pads $0.00, interval 0 mi - $0.00/mi.

Radiator flush - 0 gallons non diluted dex cool coolant $00.0, interval 0 mi - $0.000/mi.

Tires - set of 0, $0/0,000 - $0.0000/mi.

Air filter - $0.0/0 mi - $0.0000/mi.


Windshield wipers - 0 set front and rear per year $00.00 - $0.0000/mi.

Various turn signal and tail light bulbs - 0 pair per never, 
Headlights - 00.0000 mi - $0.0000/mi.

Fuel injector cleaner - $0.00/00 mi - $0.0000/mi.

Windshield washer fluid - $0.00/0 mi - $0.0000/mi

Allowance for major repairs - $00/0 mi - $0.0000/mi.

Add it all up, it's ummm let's see, this is a tough one, ummmm zero...


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

secretadmirer said:


> Since cheffy had the decently to disclose his numbers, I felt obliged to share my expenses incurred from driving uber the last couple of months.
> 
> here it is:
> 
> Fuel - $0.00/gal at 0 mpg - $0.00/mi
> 
> Oil change (full synthetic, so 0 mi intervals) - oil $00.00, filter $0.oo, total $0.00 - $0.00/mi.
> 
> Transmission flush and fill - 0 qts fluid $0.00, filter and pan gasket it $00.00, total $00.00 - interval 00 mi - $0.0000 per mi.
> 
> Brakes - all four wheels, ceramic pads $0.00, interval 0 mi - $0.00/mi.
> 
> Radiator flush - 0 gallons non diluted dex cool coolant $00.0, interval 0 mi - $0.000/mi.
> 
> Tires - set of 0, $0/0,000 - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Air filter - $0.0/0 mi - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Windshield wipers - 0 set front and rear per year $00.00 - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Various turn signal and tail light bulbs - 0 pair per never,
> Headlights - 00.0000 mi - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Fuel injector cleaner - $0.00/00 mi - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Windshield washer fluid - $0.00/0 mi - $0.0000/mi
> 
> Allowance for major repairs - $00/0 mi - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Add it all up, it's ummm let's see, this is a tough one, ummmm zero...


Is this your clever way of saying you no longer Uber?


----------



## iheartuber

RichR said:


> I would be very surprised if Uber isn't constantly monitoring driver turnover, etc., or has no plan ready to be implemented when they foresee a problem looming on the horizon.


You really think Uber has a plan ready when a problem comes on the horizon? HA! Uber has no plan!! you know how I know? because a real plan would focus on driver retention of which they do absolutely zero.

Just remember, these are computer nerds who built a very excellent app. They know how to code, but do they know how to run a business and know how to manage the people who work for them? hahaha that's funny!


----------



## Chef Aarron

secretadmirer said:


> Since cheffy had the decently to disclose his numbers, I felt obliged to share my expenses incurred from driving uber the last couple of months.
> 
> here it is:
> 
> Fuel - $0.00/gal at 0 mpg - $0.00/mi
> 
> Oil change (full synthetic, so 0 mi intervals) - oil $00.00, filter $0.oo, total $0.00 - $0.00/mi.
> 
> Transmission flush and fill - 0 qts fluid $0.00, filter and pan gasket it $00.00, total $00.00 - interval 00 mi - $0.0000 per mi.
> 
> Brakes - all four wheels, ceramic pads $0.00, interval 0 mi - $0.00/mi.
> 
> Radiator flush - 0 gallons non diluted dex cool coolant $00.0, interval 0 mi - $0.000/mi.
> 
> Tires - set of 0, $0/0,000 - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Air filter - $0.0/0 mi - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Windshield wipers - 0 set front and rear per year $00.00 - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Various turn signal and tail light bulbs - 0 pair per never,
> Headlights - 00.0000 mi - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Fuel injector cleaner - $0.00/00 mi - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Windshield washer fluid - $0.00/0 mi - $0.0000/mi
> 
> Allowance for major repairs - $00/0 mi - $0.0000/mi.
> 
> Add it all up, it's ummm let's see, this is a tough one, ummmm zero...


Ah! So, you must not drive any more! You were so horribly unsuccessful at it that you quit! Congratulations! And now because you're so successful in some other line of work, your life is so pathetic that you spend your time on a forum for drivers showing the world your knowledge about how to manage a business is also exactly 0. Good for you! You must be so proud!


----------



## Chef Aarron

20yearsdriving said:


> View attachment 32963
> 
> 
> I work from the top down


In other words, you have no clue what your expenses are. LOL!


----------



## Chef Aarron

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I'm paying for every room in my house, whether I use it or not, but that doesn't mean I'll let a stranger live in it for a fraction of the going rental rate for a room in my neighborhood.
> 
> Yet that's your rationale for letting a stranger in your car for a pittance.


No, actual his comment is the correct rationale for proper allocation of expenses. Wouldn't expect fuzzypelvis to understand that, or much of anything for that matter from what I've seen.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Chef Aarron said:


> In other words, you have no clue what your expenses are. LOL!


For tax purposes I save every receipt 
I know to the penny 
30cents a mile this precise moment

But I've had to replace several vehicles in my commercial driving time

I know a low Mile newer car's cost of operation 
Can be lower that a older higher car

I know to allocate replacement costs

I know what is like to have your a/ c compressor shead it's internals ( guess what that means ) replace the whole system

Just to have your transmission blow 3 months later

Once you put on that new ****** 
Your alignment goes to hell
Shop won't align it because your whole front end is completely worn

Should I keep going ??


----------



## phoneguy

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Answer to OP:
> Detroit is the current low in North America @.30 mile/.30 minute.
> 
> And people still drive.
> Sorry!


I just confirmed the Detroit numbers. WOW THAT IS SHIT.

The Low-Cost Uber
Base Fare$0.50
+Per Minute$0.30
+Per Mile$0.30
Booking Fee
$2.30
Minimum Fare
$5.30
Cancellation Fee
$5.00
*The min fare includes the Booking Fee.

Lets assume we have 2 different rides: crappy 2 miles for 7 minutes and a good ride 20 miles for 35 minutes (interstate, most of my longer rides mean I can get up to 50 or 60 for most of the longer part) (NO BOOKING FEE SINCE THAT IS UBERS ANYWAY) (I leave in Pittsburgh and older drivers get 80% and new drivers only get 75%, will use 75% in the case

Crappy
.5 + 7 * .3 +2 * .3 = $3.20 You only get $2.40 and your mileage is only $1.08 so you only have to pay taxes on $1.32 so after taxes about a $1.

Good case
.5 + 35*.3+20*.3 = $17.00 You only get $12.75 and your mileage is $10.80 so you only have to pay taxes on $1.95 so you get about $12.

This doesn't assume the mileage to get to the person. Since you can count that against your taxes at $0.54 per mile, it lowers your taxes even more.


----------



## Chef Aarron

20yearsdriving said:


> For tax purposes I save every receipt
> I know to the penny
> 30cents a mile this precise moment
> 
> But I've had to replace several vehicles in my commercial driving time
> 
> I know a low Mile newer car's cost of operation
> Can be lower that a older higher car
> 
> I know to allocate replacement costs
> 
> I know what is like to have your a/ c compressor shead it's internals ( guess what that means ) replace the whole system
> 
> Just to have your transmission blow 3 months later
> 
> Once you put on that new ******
> Your alignment goes to hell
> Shop won't align it because your whole front end is completely worn
> 
> Should I keep going ??


And those sort of major repairs are why I allocate $1,500 a year for repairs.

If your alignment goes to pot after a transmission swap, you really need to find a new shop! And if your front end is that worn out, clearly you are not maintaining your vehicle. You should be regularly checking for wear in tie rods, control arm bushings, wheel bearings, etc. But hey, of you want to maintain your car badly so that everything costs way more later, that's your choice, I suppose.

If you're allocating replacement cost and counting depreciation, you're even more clueless than I thought. I'm not even gonna bother explaining why because you won't get it anyway.

Finally, if you're supposedly taking the car to a shop for all the repairs and maintenance and you're supposedly allocating cost for vehicle replacement, then if you're claiming $0.30 a mile, I can smell that big steaming pile from here!


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Chef Aarron said:


> And those sort of major repairs are why I allocate $1,500 a year for repairs.
> 
> If your alignment goes to pot after a transmission swap, you really need to find a new shop! And if your front end is that worn out, clearly you are not maintaining your vehicle. You should be regularly checking for wear in tie rods, control arm bushings, wheel bearings, etc. But hey, of you want to maintain your car badly so that everything costs way more later, that's your choice, I suppose.
> 
> If you're allocating replacement cost and counting depreciation, you're even more clueless than I thought. I'm not even gonna bother explaining why because you won't get it anyway.
> 
> Finally, if you're supposedly taking the car to a shop for all the repairs and maintenance and you're supposedly allocating cost for vehicle replacement, then if you're claiming $0.30 a mile, I can smell that big steaming pile from here!


20yearsdriving this guy is unbelievable huh? 
Almost 4 decades between us running indys and small fleets and he knows 
EVERYTHING! 
2nd coming i say.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Chef Aarron said:


> And those sort of major repairs are why I allocate $1,500 a year for repairs.
> 
> If your alignment goes to pot after a transmission swap, you really need to find a new shop! And if your front end is that worn out, clearly you are not maintaining your vehicle. You should be regularly checking for wear in tie rods, control arm bushings, wheel bearings, etc. But hey, of you want to maintain your car badly so that everything costs way more later, that's your choice, I suppose.
> 
> If you're allocating replacement cost and counting depreciation, you're even more clueless than I thought. I'm not even gonna bother explaining why because you won't get it anyway.
> 
> Finally, if you're supposedly taking the car to a shop for all the repairs and maintenance and you're supposedly allocating cost for vehicle replacement, then if you're claiming $0.30 a mile, I can smell that big steaming pile from here!


You missed my point 
It could have been window regulator followed by heater core followed bad engine head gasket

Your 1500 is not enoug on a high mile car


----------



## KevRyde

20yearsdriving said:


> It could have been window regulator followed by heater core followed bad engine head gasket. Your 1500 is not enough on a high mile car


I'm in complete agreement here. S**t happens with older vehicles - like last winter when the rear window on my Ford Escape spontaneously exploded when I closed the liftgate.
















KevRyde said:


> Some real world numbers:
> 
> The small SUV I traded in for my minivan in early December was worth about $10,000 at the start of 2015, so based on the $6,500 trade in value I received, I realized $3,500 in depreciation. I spent around $4,000 on maintenance items, $4,000 on gas, and if I add another $1,500 for insurance and registration fees - which I consider fixed costs that I would have paid during the year even if I hadn't driven my car for business - it cost me $13,000 to operate my SUV in 2015. That number is nowhere close to the $24,363 tax deduction I will report for the 42,370 miles I drove the car for business.
> 
> I drove my SUV a total of 45,000 miles in 2015 which puts my operating cost per mile at $0.29 - just over half of the $0.575/mile allowance allowed by the IRS for 2015.
> 
> View attachment 23717


----------



## Chef Aarron

phoneguy said:


> I just confirmed the Detroit numbers. WOW THAT IS SHIT.
> Kimi
> The Low-Cost Uber
> Base Fare$0.50
> +Per Minute$0.30
> +Per Mile$0.30
> Booking Fee
> $2.30
> Minimum Fare
> $5.30
> Cancellation Fee
> $5.00
> *The min fare includes the Booking Fee.
> 
> Lets assume we have 2 different rides: crappy 2 miles for 7 minutes and a good ride 20 miles for 35 minutes (interstate, most of my longer rides mean I can get up to 50 or 60 for most of the longer part) (NO BOOKING FEE SINCE THAT IS UBERS ANYWAY) (I leave in Pittsburgh and older drivers get 80% and new drivers only get 75%, will use 75% in the case
> 
> Crappy
> .5 + 7 * .3 +2 * .3 = $3.20 You only get $2.40 and your mileage is only $1.08 so you only have to pay taxes on $1.32 so after taxes about a $1.
> 
> Good case
> .5 + 35*.3+20*.3 = $17.00 You only get $12.75 and your mileage is $10.80 so you only have to pay taxes on $1.95 so you get about $12.
> 
> This doesn't assume the mileage to get to the person. Since you can count that against your taxes at $0.54 per mile, it lowers your taxes even more.


You drive 34.3 mph on the interstate? Thanks for confirming my point about staying off the expressways.

Doing your numbers at 60 mph for the long trip, i.e time is 20 minutes, and with a 2.5 mi pickup...

($0.50 + 20 × $0.30 + 20 × $0.30) × 0.75 = $9.38. Mileage deduction is $0.54 × 22.5 = $12.15. You pay no taxes and net $9.38 or $0.42 per mile BEFORE EXPENSES. I'll give you $0.25 a mile expenses to be generous, so you net $0.17 a mile.

Now, the shorter trip at slow speed...

($0.50 + 2 × $0.30 + 7 × $0.30) × 0.75 = $2.40. Mileage deduction is $0.54 × 4.5 = $2.44. You have no taxes, and make $0.53 per mile BEFORE EXPENSES. I'll give you $0.25 a mile expenses to be generous, so you net $0.28 a mile.

Congratulations! You're "good case" made you less money in the real world where riders don't teleport into your vehicle for the pickup.


----------



## secretadmirer

"Is this your clever way of saying you no longer Uber?" It isn't a question about clever or not clever, I was simply stating my expenses using the same format that cheffy did. I' haven't quit uber yet. I just haven't felt like signing on the app for a couple of months. They keep sending me letters wondering why I've been idol. I wrote back telling them if they raise the rates back up to $2/mile I'll be glad to drive. 

If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask.


----------



## Chef Aarron

20yearsdriving said:


> You missed my point
> It could have been window regulator followed by heater core followed bad engine head gasket
> 
> Your 1500 is not enoug on a high mile car


Window regulator - about $200

Head gasket and replacent bolt set, both cylinder banks - $137.96. Tough job, but I've done it before.

Heater core - $54.99

Total for all three - about $400. Amazing how much you save when you know how to work on a car yourself.

Please tell me again how $1,500 a year isn't enough?


----------



## RichR

RockinEZ said:


> You do know you are just chasing surges, right?
> 
> That is the best way to kill a surge. Follow that method and you will make no money off Uber.
> You have to stealth into a area you know will surge, and wait for the surge to surround you.
> 
> Newbies will kill that surge pretty quickly, but you will have your fare and will be headed off at 3x rates.
> 
> Don't chase surges. It is not profitable.


Thanks but, since I'm not driving to a surging zone, I'm not really "chasing surges." Rather, I'm just not anticipating them as much as you might think is possible.

Typically, I'll be sitting at home (very close to the center of an Uber zone) working or watching TV with the partner app on, watching for a 2.0+ surge. On an active night, I might also have my tablet on with the pax app open and occasionally move the pin around the map to see where the available drivers are. Since the partner app refreshes every 60 seconds, even without the pax app on, by the time I see the 2.0+ surge and Go Online, I might have missed out on the first 60 or 70 seconds of it, at most. Then, as soon as it dips below 2.0 or I complete a trip, I'm immediately Offline again.

That method has proven adequate for my profit objective. If I don't get a 2x ping, I might occasionally, due to the partner app lag, get a 1.5x or 1.4x ping or, very rarely, a 1.0x (because a 2.0+ surge almost never drops to 1 without first going between 1 and 2).


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Chef Aarron said:


> Window regulator - about $200
> 
> Head gasket and replacent bolt set, both cylinder banks - $137.96. Tough job, but I've done it before.
> 
> Heater core - $54.99
> 
> Total for all three - about $400. Amazing how much you save when you know how to work on a car yourself.
> 
> Please tell me again how $1,500 a year isn't enough?


Like I said I've been there

But at this stage of life I'm better driving than fixing ( on big repair jobs )

You will eventually graduate to understanding me 
I've seen this movie before


----------



## Chef Aarron

KevRyde said:


> I'm in complete agreement here. S**t happens with older vehicles - like last winter when the rear window on my Ford Escape spontaneously exploded when I closed the liftgate.
> 
> View attachment 32997
> View attachment 32998


Wow! I hope your shop have you a big tub of Vaseline with your bills! $75 for an oil change! $140 an axel for brakes! LOL! If you can't do those very simple things yourself and you're willing to pay such ridiculous prices, you deserve to take it in the rear for the expenses.

All those other expenses just show you're driving an extraordinarily unreliable vehicle that should have been replaced before it ever got to the point that it was! Your bad business decision of continuing to drive such a piece of junk car does not make your analysis correct!


----------



## 20yearsdriving

RichR said:


> Thanks but, since I'm not driving to a surging zone, I'm not really "chasing surges." Rather, I'm just not anticipating them as much as you might think is possible.
> 
> Typically, I'll be sitting at home (very close to the center of an Uber zone) working or watching TV with the partner app on, watching for a 2.0+ surge. On an active night, I might also have my tablet on with the pax app open and occasionally move the pin around the map to see where the available drivers are. Since the partner app refreshes every 60 seconds, even without the pax app on, by the time I see the 2.0+ surge and Go Online, I might have missed out on the first 60 or 70 seconds of it, at most. Then, as soon as it dips below 2.0 or I complete a trip, I'm immediately Offline again.
> 
> That method has proven adequate for my profit objective. If I don't get a 2x ping, I might occasionally, due to the partner app lag, get a 1.5x or 1.4x ping or, very rarely, a 1.0x (because a 2.0+ surge almost never drops to 1 without first going between 1 and 2).


in your field is like me 
Making a burger with out a bun top , only one onion ring , half pickle , artificial chesse ( non dairy ) delete sesame seed 
This is you


----------



## Chef Aarron

20yearsdriving said:


> Like I said I've been there
> 
> But at this stage of life I'm better driving than fixing ( on big repair jobs )
> 
> You will eventually graduate to understanding me
> I've seen this movie before


Doubt I'll ever "graduate" to be a helpless man who is willing to make nothing because I have to pay someone to do every little thing. I will quit Uber long before that because it won't be profitable enough for my standards. But, if it works for you to piss away most of what you earn rather than learn how to do simple things yourself, more power to you!


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Chef Aarron said:


> Doubt I'll ever "graduate" to be a helpless man who is willing to make nothing because I have to pay someone to do every little thing. I will quit Uber long before that because it won't be profitable enough for my standards. But, if it works for you to piss away most of what you earn rather than learn how to do simple things yourself, more power to you!


I've personally swapped 2 engines in my life time( when I was broke )
My time is worth more now

Uber ( you are broke )

When you move up the food chain you will understand me


----------



## RichR

iheartuber said:


> You really think Uber has a plan ready when a problem comes on the horizon? HA! Uber has no plan!! you know how I know? because a real plan would focus on driver retention of which they do absolutely zero.
> 
> Just remember, these are computer nerds who built a very excellent app. They know how to code, but do they know how to run a business and know how to manage the people who work for them? hahaha that's funny!


Maybe Uber's plan is to maximize profits over the short run, to "strike while the iron is hot" or "make hay while the sun is shining."

Maybe Uber's plan is to burn through all the available n00b drivers, profiting on their ignorance.

Maybe Travis & Co. have reason to believe the so-called "ridesharing" business model won't last long. So, they want to maximize their ROI before they get out and move on to the next Big Thing.

Just because Uber's plan has nothing in common with yours doesn't mean Uber doesn't have a plan.


----------



## RichR

20yearsdriving said:


> in your field is like me
> Making a burger with out a bun top , only one onion ring , half pickle , artificial chesse ( non dairy ) delete sesame seed
> This is you


Aw, that's cute how you think you're so smart. But, guess what? Uber is a just a hobby for me. Unlike most of my other hobbies, Uber turns a nice profit.


----------



## secretadmirer

I think $2350 might do it, give or take or borrow some pennies ...


----------



## 20yearsdriving

RichR said:


> Aw, that's cute how you think you're so smart. But, guess what? Uber is a just a hobby for me. Unlike most of my other hobbies, Uber turns a nice profit.


My hobby turned me 500.00 last 7 days 
On top of my 2400.00 driving gross

Yeah!!
Real job real hobby


----------



## KevRyde

Chef Aarron said:


> Wow! I hope your shop have you a big tub of Vaseline with your bills! you deserve to take it in the rear


Wow do you taste the dishes you cook with that nasty mouth of yours?


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Nice hobby money LOL!
Like I said you'll eventually graduate & understand me



RichR said:


> Aw, that's cute how you think you're so smart. But, guess what? Uber is a just a hobby for me. Unlike most of my other hobbies, Uber turns a nice profit.


----------



## secretadmirer

"Aw, that's cute how you think you're so smart. But, guess what? Uber is a just a hobby for me. Unlike most of my other hobbies, Uber turns a nice profit."

Yes I believe you when you say Uber makes a nice profit themselves. As far as drivers, I don't think so. These are the kind of drivers that uber adore. I wouldn't be surprised to lowered the rates again. perhaps 20cent/mile.


----------



## Chef Aarron

RichR said:


> Aw, that's cute how you think you're so smart. But, guess what? Uber is a just a hobby for me. Unlike most of my other hobbies, Uber turns a nice profit.


Yeah, nice hobby, eh!? Note the $118 deduction for fuel card which is not just my Uber expenses but also food, cigarettes, etc that I might get at a convenience store anyway, so may as well get the discount. Also doesn't include $116 in tips. Gross was one trip shy of a grand. After expenses, still around $800.

But around here, you could say the sky is blue and people like 20yearsgrinding will say you're an idiot. Facts don't actually matter.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Chef Aarron said:


> Yeah, nice hobby, eh!? Note the $118 deduction for fuel card which is not just my Uber expenses but also food, cigarettes, etc that I might get at a convenience store anyway, so may as well get the discount. Also doesn't include $116 in tips. Gross was one trip shy of a grand. After expenses, still around $800.
> 
> But around here, you could say the sky is blue and people like 20yearsgrinding will say you're an idiot. Facts don't actually matter.


That is very good back in February 
Looks like it was you lucky day

I like a bit more consistent results


----------



## Chef Aarron

20yearsdriving said:


> That is very good back in February
> Looks like it was you lucky day
> 
> I like a bit more consistent results


I used that example only because it was the last time my schedule allowed me to actually drive a full week. My results are consistent in terms of earnings per hour and per mile. Lucky days are one's like last Thursday when I did just shy of $160 in under 6 hours with a total of 135 mi on the odometer working the Jacksonville beaches with 30+ other drivers all crammed together.

Bottom line, though, I don't need to justify myself to a condescending, ignorant fool like you.


----------



## RichR

secretadmirer said:


> "Aw, that's cute how you think you're so smart. But, guess what? Uber is a just a hobby for me. Unlike most of my other hobbies, Uber turns a nice profit."
> 
> Yes I believe you when you say Uber makes a nice profit themselves. As far as drivers, I don't think so. These are the kind of drivers that uber adore. I wouldn't be surprised to lowered the rates again. perhaps 20cent/mile.


I know I'm turning a profit. But, that's only because I'm very careful about when and where I go online. So, I don't do many trips. But the trips I do are profitable.

As for whether Uber "adores" me, they can see when I have the app open. They can see I wait for a surge to Go Online. They can see me Go Offline when the surge dips below my threshold. Uber has all that and more data on all of us available to them, and I'd be shocked if they didn't collect and use it all to their advantage.

If Uber has reason to believe lowering your rates will increase their bottom line, they'll do it. Contrary to what some would like to think, I'm sure Uber knows exactly what they're doing and they're always looking for ways to do it "better."


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Chef Aarron said:


> I used that example only because it was the last time my schedule allowed me to actually drive a full week. My results are consistent in terms of earnings per hour and per mile. Lucky days are one's like last Thursday when I did just shy of $160 in under 6 hours with a total of 135 mi on the odometer working the Jacksonville beaches with 30+ other drivers all crammed together.
> 
> Bottom line, though, I don't need to justify myself to a condescending, ignorant fool like you.


Ok 
I learned for you 
I will Execute opposite


----------



## jonnyplastic

*Uber/Lyft will eventually have drivers driving for 0% profit. All the profit will be theirs to keep and unfortunately that's the way it will be. They are working their butts off to try and "market" their zero percent profit business model to the millions of idiots in the world!*


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

RichR said:


> Aw, that's cute how you think you're so smart. But, guess what? Uber is a just a hobby for me. Unlike most of my other hobbies, Uber turns a nice profit.


You cut on 20yearsdriving for thinking hes smart, but you hobby in our profession? 
Whos the big bleeping dummy here?


----------



## Chef Aarron

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You cut on 20yearsdriving for thinking hes smart, but you hobby in our profession?
> Whos the big bleeping dummy here?


Your profession! LOL! Sitting on one's arse driving a car is hardly worth that grandiose tone! It's a job, not a profession. Get over yourself. A trained monkey can do what we do, and evidence here would suggest many do.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

M


Chef Aarron said:


> Your profession! LOL! Sitting on one's arse driving a car is hardly worth that grandiose tone! It's a job, not a profession. Get over yourself. A trained monkey can do what we do, and evidence here would suggest many do.


There is trained monkeys 
& there is trained monkeys

Which are you ?


----------



## secretadmirer

Now now! I want you all to kiss and makeup. Recite 10 hail marys, and all will be forgiven or not or maybe. Make this a hallmark moment!!!


----------



## Chef Aarron

20yearsdriving said:


> M
> 
> There is trained monkeys
> & there is trained monkeys
> 
> Which are you ?


I'm the one that makes money off the stupidity of the monkeys.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

Chef Aarron said:


> I'm the one that makes money off the stupidity of the monkeys.


LoL
I had enoug 
Enjoy your driving

I was going to ask how but I've seen enoug


----------



## Chef Aarron

20yearsdriving said:


> LoL
> I had enoug
> Enjoy your driving
> 
> I was going to ask how but I've seen enoug


I'll give you a hint. Surge chasing monkeys often pile up in one place and split the pie a whole lot of ways. Smart humans realize that money is made from BOTH high demand and low supply and have enough sense to not share their pie.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Chef Aarron said:


> Your profession! LOL! Sitting on one's arse driving a car is hardly worth that grandiose tone! It's a job, not a profession. Get over yourself. A trained monkey can do what we do, and evidence here would suggest many do.


You are 
The most arrogant 
Person
On this forum.

Get over yourself.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You are
> The most arrogant
> Person
> On this forum.
> 
> Get over yourself.


You are giving him to much credit


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Yeah hes been on a troll feeding frenzy for days.
Time for an imposed hunger strike.


----------



## 20yearsdriving

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Yeah hes been on a troll feeding frenzy for days.
> Time for an imposed hunger strike.


LMAO!!


----------



## secretadmirer

I think cheffie and landreas would make a great couple. Trolls need to fed just like everyone else, and loved too. Well maybe the loved part is overdoing a tad bit.


----------



## RichR

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You cut on 20yearsdriving for thinking hes smart, but you hobby in our profession?
> Whos the big bleeping dummy here?


Probably the guy who believes he can make a "profession" out of something anyone with a late-model car, a valid drivers license and a common smartphone can do.

Hey, makes no sense to be mad at me and my fellow hobbyists. Be mad at Uber, Lyft, etc. Or, if you're a disgruntled cab driver, be mad at the city leaders who decided to stop protecting your chosen profession from free market competition. Be sure to ask the riders if they care (or can tell) whether their Uber driver is a professional or a hobbyist.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

RichR said:


> Probably the guy who believes he can make a "profession" out of something anyone with a late-model car, a valid drivers license and a common smartphone can do.
> 
> Hey, makes no sense to be mad at me and my fellow hobbyists. Be mad at Uber, Lyft, etc. Or, if you're a disgruntled cab driver, be mad at the city leaders who decided to stop protecting your chosen profession from free market competition. Be sure to ask the riders if they care (or can tell) whether their Uber driver is a professional or a hobbyist.


Im not mad at you monkeys, just perplexed.
When 20yearsdriving and i were young men, coin collecting was a hobby.
For hire driving was for paying the bills.
Enjoy your hobby, monkey.


----------



## Beachbum in a cornfield

Jiynks said:


> I thinl of mcdonalds when i think of uber. Like everyone knows McDonald's food is trash but yet it sells and sells. Now if McDonalds trash food didnt sell im sure they would find a way to met profitable demand.
> With drivers still driving at low rates whether surge or not theyre still selling thier product hand over foot.
> Now..
> There is no problem untill theres a problem.
> Uber like ever company engaged in commerce, likely has the mind set of profit. Sooo.. They will likey cut and save where ever possible and likey try and increase and gain where its avalible.


Very few drivers driving in this mug. The McDonald's comparison is crap. They make food and sell it via employees....Uber made an app and shifted the overhead and distribution to contractors. You need me to explain more?


----------



## Chef Aarron

RichR said:


> Probably the guy who believes he can make a "profession" out of something anyone with a late-model car, a valid drivers license and a common smartphone can do.
> 
> Hey, makes no sense to be mad at me and my fellow hobbyists. Be mad at Uber, Lyft, etc. Or, if you're a disgruntled cab driver, be mad at the city leaders who decided to stop protecting your chosen profession from free market competition. Be sure to ask the riders if they care (or can tell) whether their Uber driver is a professional or a hobbyist.


It's jealousy. They've been protected all these years by artificial manipulation of supply and demand and haven't had to innovate or actually get good at what they do. Now another player comes in and makes them realize that all this time they thought they were so smart, they really weren't much more than monkeys going after half a banana. So they try to defame anyone who makes money because, in their sad world view, it takes special skill and experience to be a driver.

Then when you show proof that some of us do as well, after expenses, as they do with a third of the fare, they really go off the deep end - that's when the anger, the rationalization, the contrived false math, and the insults come out.

I've seen it here a hundred times. All these cabbies and even Uber drivers who get their world view upset and find out they're really not all that smart or even qualified to run a business, but instead of asking how to manage expenses or what strategy might work for their situation, they act like know it alls and slam everyone who has put more thought into it than them. Hell, one of these jokers was even proclaiming that even at 30 mph, Detroit wasn't getting $0.90 a mile - the rules of math somehow change because some loser who can't come up with a strategy to deal with their situation says so! You've got another that thinks a $75 oil change works for him and who keeps a falling apart car for 11 months with a major repair every few weeks and thinks that's normal! Another who can't read a maintenance schedule And thinks air filters won't last even 10,000 miles!

That is this forum and why I really only hold an ounce of respect for a handful of people here. Honestly, if I piss off someone here, I figure I'm probably doing it right!


----------



## RichR

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Im not mad at you monkeys, just perplexed.
> When 20yearsdriving and i were young men, coin collecting was a hobby.
> For hire driving was for paying the bills.
> Enjoy your hobby, monkey.


Fine. While you're pining for the old days, hobbies change with the times. (And my coin and stamp collecting days were done long before you got your first fare.)

How am I a "monkey" any more than you? We're both providing the same service. And while I'm sure you'd like to think your experience means your levels of competence and customer satisfaction are higher than mine, it's very unlikely.

Maybe instead of pouting, be thankful you were able to milk that cash cow for as long as you did.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

RichR said:


> Fine. While you're pining for the old days, hobbies change with the times. (And my coin and stamp collecting days were done long before you got your first fare.)
> 
> How am I a "monkey" any more than you? We're both providing the same service. And while I'm sure you'd like to think your experience means your levels of competence and customer satisfaction are higher than mine, it's very unlikely.
> 
> Maybe instead of pouting, be thankful you were able to milk that cash cow for as long as you did.


Your a monkey because i turn a profit and hobbyists dont.
Feel free to admit its not a viable hobby to destroy your car in the service of TK's pre IPO fortune.


----------



## Chef Aarron

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Im not mad at you monkeys, just perplexed.
> When 20yearsdriving and i were young men, coin collecting was a hobby.
> For hire driving was for paying the bills.
> Enjoy your hobby, monkey.


Aaah! The sad, pathetic lament of the buggy whip salesman.


----------



## Chef Aarron

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Your a monkey because i turn a profit and hobbyists dont.
> Feel free to admit its not a viable hobby to destroy your car in the service of TK's pre IPO fortune.


I turn a profit and a pretty handy one at that. For my entire time as an Uber driver, including the rookie times when I was learning the tricks of the trade, my overall pre tax margin is 72.34%. That's using my current cost per mile in the math even though gas prices are near the highest they've been since I began. The average GROSS margin of the Fortune 500 is 42.08% as of last earnings season. I'm fairly confident that RichR isn't too far off from that, either, as he seems to have some degree of common sense, too.

How embarrassing for you that an unqualified rookie monkey probably has similar business metrics at a third of the fare!


----------



## iheartuber

RichR said:


> Maybe Uber's plan is to maximize profits over the short run, to "strike while the iron is hot" or "make hay while the sun is shining."
> 
> Maybe Uber's plan is to burn through all the available n00b drivers, profiting on their ignorance.
> 
> Maybe Travis & Co. have reason to believe the so-called "ridesharing" business model won't last long. So, they want to maximize their ROI before they get out and move on to the next Big Thing.
> 
> Just because Uber's plan has nothing in common with yours doesn't mean Uber doesn't have a plan.


I'm suggesting that if Uber is truly interested in long term success as a business, they need to focus on their lifeblood which is the drivers and focus on driver retention. It's not "my" plan... It's the sensible plan Uber needs to do if they really care about themselves in the long run. Don't worry about me. I'm a driver now, someday I'll move on and do something else. I'll be fine. This isn't about me. I'm talking about what Uber should do as a company to succeed.

They are doing the opposite of what I suggest and they are failing.

There is no way, in the long run, that Uber can do any of what you say for one simple reason: they have Billions and Billions of dollars invested in them that someday they will need to pay back and that day is coming sooner than you think. They can do all the "quick fixes" and band aids and short term things they want but it's not going to help pay back the investors, and they are going to run out of patience soon.

so.... ???


----------



## Jiynks

What does the focus on dtivers have anything to do with offering or pampering to current ones ? 
Why can uber not squeeze everything outta old ones and when they do see a decline in drivers try and recruite more ? And if they cant recruite more than im sure theyll sweeten the offer. 
Example look how many came jumping back when a seemingly good offer of 75 rides for 500$..
Looks to me thier business model is just fine so far.
Thats being completely objective.
Ive seen this " im so great " employee attitude and the " they cant replace me " mentality over and over in buisness. Everyone is replaceable. 
Besides uber doesnt need great cobtractors just moderately decent ones.


----------



## Chef Aarron

Jiynks said:


> Besides uber doesnt need great cobtractors just moderately decent ones.


Not even that.


----------



## iheartuber

Jiynks said:


> What does the focus on dtivers have anything to do with offering or pampering to current ones ?
> Why can uber not squeeze everything outta old ones and when they do see a decline in drivers try and recruite more ? And if they cant recruite more than im sure theyll sweeten the offer.
> Example look how many came jumping back when a seemingly good offer of 75 rides for 500$..
> Looks to me thier business model is just fine so far.
> Thats being completely objective.
> Ive seen this " im so great " employee attitude and the " they cant replace me " mentality over and over in buisness. Everyone is replaceable.
> Besides uber doesnt need great cobtractors just moderately decent ones.


What's wrong with plowing through drivers like they were water? Duh, because it's not a sustainable business model.

In what universe would you imagine that it was?

I realize that we live in a world where everyone is replaceable, but you have to care at least a LITTLE bit about your workers. Especially since if uber had zero drivers they would have zero business.


----------



## Chef Aarron

iheartuber said:


> What's wrong with plowing through drivers like they were water? Duh, because it's not a sustainable business model.
> 
> In what universe would you imagine that it was?
> 
> I realize that we live in a world where everyone is replaceable, but you have to care at least a LITTLE bit about your workers. Especially since if uber had zero drivers they would have zero business.


We are not workers, we are a commodity. It's supply and demand like any other commodity. If supply is high (plenty of willing drivers) price (rates and payouts to drivers) goes down.


----------



## DriverX

JapanFour said:


> So I have kind of wondered, how much can these companies lower driver pay rates? Where I live in the inland empire, the pay comes out to less than minimum wage, and sometimes worse. You can end up losing money.
> 
> How is this legal now, and whats stopping uber/lyft from paying even less? Where is the thresh hold where the drivers just stop driving all together?
> 
> What can drivers do to combat this financial atrophy?


Move to a better market. I doubt uber will raise your markets rate enough to make up for what must be low demand or too many drivers. Seems like the average hourly driver net that uber tunes it rate to across all markets is $15 an hour. If your not making at least that on average I doubt you ever will.


----------



## Jiynks

When uber is put in a position to take better care of drivers they simply have to in oreder to continue with thier buisness.
So again.. They will " plow through " and take advantage of untill the scale tips to far, than they will bring balance.
Ie that ridiculous 75 ride 500$ bonus.
It worked right.
And if it doesnt continue to than im sure they will bring some other ridiculous offer. And so and so forth.


----------



## JapanFour

DriverX said:


> Move to a better market. I doubt uber will raise your markets rate enough to make up for what must be low demand or too many drivers. Seems like the average hourly driver net that uber tunes it rate to across all markets is $15 an hour. If your not making at least that on average I doubt you ever will.


for a part time job my market isnt so bad, but I have low expectations because I never got the higher wages that others have had here. So the bar is low for me. I just ask because Its barely a propfit for some, and I am honestly wondering how low will the bar go.


----------



## I_Like_Spam

iheartuber said:


> What's wrong with plowing through drivers like they were water? Duh, because it's not a sustainable business model.
> 
> In what universe would you imagine that it was?
> 
> I realize that we live in a world where everyone is replaceable, but you have to care at least a LITTLE bit about your workers. Especially since if uber had zero drivers they would have zero business.


There is no way to provide livery services without going through cars real quickly, putting lots of wear and tear on them. Uber really doesn't have much choice in the matter. Driving a car a couple hundred miles a day will do that.

Uber really doesn't have a choice in the matter, in their aim, to provide these services and not have to maintain an expensive fleet.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Is buggy whip salesman supposed to hurt my feelings? Lol.
I am most definitely a salesman. 

I suppose its our burger flipper sans caterers way of saying i sell a defunct product.
Which i sell at a profit.


----------



## wk1102

JaxUbermom said:


> It all sounded good except when you got to the swapping vehicles part... Other than that, I know for certain the trip may cause you pay problems due their limits set. I know asking customer service for assistance will be crap, but if you can get one drone to tell you it's ok, and keep the email, you may be able to use it to fight for the fare later. I am NOT trying to be Debbie Downer for you. I do t want you to lose out on money you will legally and rightfully earn, it sounds like, and we can meet at whole foods or costco and eat all the freebies!!!! Lol
> 
> It's a potentially good run, and I hope it works out for you!


So this morning at 7am I get a text from this guy, the guy who wants me to take him to Jax and back. He for goto a thumb drive at his house and wants to know if I'll bring it to him. I did not want to, I was tired and it just sets a bad precedent, I'm not an errand boy. Well, I wasn't thinking, his text woke me up so I agreeded. Half way To His house I realize we didn't discuss money. So I texted him he put the pin ant his house and pinged me, I accepted he paid my miles from where I accepted until I got back home plus 50 cash. Not bad, it was about 45 miles round trip I made. I got paid for 42 of them.

He also had to cancel, well postpone his trip to Jax until Tues of next week, he gave me 100 for the inconvenience. I made $200 this morning on a 20 mile drive. Not to shabby!

Looks like we'll have to wait until Tues for lunch, probably for the best as the pastries are fresh early in the week, better selection too! Usually by Thursday all they have left is apricot or peach. ;-)


----------



## Chef Aarron

wk1102 said:


> So this morning at 7am I get a text from this guy, the guy who wants me to take him to Jax and back. He for goto a thumb drive at his house and wants to know if I'll bring it to him. I did not want to, I was tired and it just sets a bad precedent, I'm not an errand boy. Well, I wasn't thinking, his text woke me up so I agreeded. Half way To His house I realize we didn't discuss money. So I texted him he put the pin ant his house and pinged me, I accepted he paid my miles from where I accepted until I got back home plus 50 cash. Not bad, it was about 45 miles round trip I made. I got paid for 42 of them.
> 
> He also had to cancel, well postpone his trip to Jax until Tues of next week, he gave me 100 for the inconvenience. I made $200 this morning on a 20 mile drive. Not to shabby!
> 
> Looks like we'll have to wait until Tues for lunch, probably for the best as the pastries are fresh early in the week, better selection too! Usually by Thursday all they have left is apricot or peach. ;-)


LOL! Nice!


----------



## JaxUbermom

wk1102 said:


> So this morning at 7am I get a text from this guy, the guy who wants me to take him to Jax and back. He for goto a thumb drive at his house and wants to know if I'll bring it to him. I did not want to, I was tired and it just sets a bad precedent, I'm not an errand boy. Well, I wasn't thinking, his text woke me up so I agreeded. Half way To His house I realize we didn't discuss money. So I texted him he put the pin ant his house and pinged me, I accepted he paid my miles from where I accepted until I got back home plus 50 cash. Not bad, it was about 45 miles round trip I made. I got paid for 42 of them.
> 
> He also had to cancel, well postpone his trip to Jax until Tues of next week, he gave me 100 for the inconvenience. I made $200 this morning on a 20 mile drive. Not to shabby!
> 
> Looks like we'll have to wait until Tues for lunch, probably for the best as the pastries are fresh early in the week, better selection too! Usually by Thursday all they have left is apricot or peach. ;-)


That sounds like an awesome person who understands the value of your time, and I am very happy that you have made his acquaintance! Next Tuesday will be better for lunch anyway for me, as I am still trying to find the motivation to put the bathroom I ripped apart... Back together again. Only problem with working basically overnights-life can slip by months at a time. 
And yes... I completely agree on fresher pastries are to be found earlier in the week. Lol!


----------



## dpv

I am half tempted into looking for sponsers. Oh wait, That's where the tip jar comes in.


----------



## wk1102

JaxUbermom said:


> That sounds like an awesome person who understands the value of your time, and I am very happy that you have made his acquaintance! Next Tuesday will be better for lunch anyway for me, as I am still trying to find the motivation to put the bathroom I ripped apart... Back together again. Only problem with working basically overnights-life can slip by months at a time.
> And yes... I completely agree on fresher pastries are to be found earlier in the week. Lol!


Yeah, the more I see the sun come up while I'm still out the harder it is to get motivated later in the week... I'm getting too old for this. I keep telling myself I'm going to get home Fri and Sat by 1ish but I've seen the sun rise more lately than ever.

I was genuinely surprised that he took care of me as well as he did, and I even tried to decline the 100, not very hard but... I'm amazed at how wide the spectrum is when it come to the respect riders gave for our time and service.

Here's a guy that pays me well for not doing nothing and others will joke how I drove 6 miles to take them a half a mile and not even give a dollar tip. Twice on st Patrick's day I heard the group discussing a "Phat tip" for the bartender so he'd remember them and yet nothing for the driver who made two stops for foe one group and waited 5 extra minutes for one person in the other group. I had a guy from Germany tip me 20 because he had to go to two ATMs, when we hit the third one, he gave me another 20 and kept apologizing for keeping me. I told him I'll take him to every atm in the city for what he already tipped. He needed the money to pay the escorts lol.... we never found an atm that would take his card.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

kideyse said:


> Even if the pay was 0, I bet people would still do it. Something about the way the partner app presents the ride request ping mesmorizes and hypnotizes them into driving zombies. No doubt much research was done in developing the app for mind control.


POST # 16/kideyse: THAT IS the Reason
Stated by the
"Kalamazoo Killer" for his Shooting Spree.
How THAT morphs into a Viable Defense
is yet to be Seen. A Sharp Attorney will
pickup on my 15 Months of Continual
Reference to "Orwellian #[F]Uber" and
will use the "Manchurian Candidate"
Defense. 
Despite being the 7th Most Popular
Novel of the 20th Century, more Poten-
tial Jurors will have seen THAT Movie
than have read THE Book.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

secretadmirer said:


> crapids 70 cents/miles and drivers think they can still earn money... I wouldn't be surprised if they lowered the rates to 30/40 cents and the driving zombies would still think they're making money. Call it uber charity.....


POST#21&22/secretadmirer: MUTTLY!
Your back-2-back
Posts are Identical ! No more Zoomin',
'Shroomin' and Postin'. P L E A S E.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

RichR said:


> Good question. Like most of us, I'm very often "logged on" (app open) but Offline waiting for a Surge. In fact, at my day job, I'll sit at my desk with the app open all day long. And on the rare occasion that there's a big Surge citywide, I'll Go Online and head for my car. I think Uber "knows" that, meaning they're collecting that data from every driver.
> 
> If so, Uber knows how willing we are to work their "slave wages" and who isn't. Moreover, Uber knows our behavior, collectively and individually.
> 
> They surely also know which users' screens are displaying the pax app and, of those, how many are registered drivers and have the driver app running in the background.
> 
> It only makes sense that Uber would be using all the data available to them.


POST # 39/RichR : I'm sure that, once
again, chi1cabby 
will know which Thread has the Hyper-
linked Article with the Admission/Pro-
jection that what #[F]Uber is REALLY
UP TO is "DataMining-4-Fun &-4-Profit"


----------



## secretadmirer

"POST#21&22/@secretadmirer: MUTTLY!
Your back-2-back
Posts are Identical ! No more Zoomin',
'Shroomin' and Postin'. P L E A S E."

PLEASE WHAT? you mean pretty please
with sugar on tip

It's all in 
It's all in
your
imagin-
ation
your
imagin-
ation

You're seeing double!
You're seeing double!

The secretadmirer inspires
The secretadmirer desires
The secretadmirer is chorkling and snorkeling.


----------



## Hunt to Eat

JapanFour said:


> So I have kind of wondered, how much can these companies lower driver pay rates? Where I live in the inland empire, the pay comes out to less than minimum wage, and sometimes worse. You can end up losing money.
> 
> How is this legal now, and whats stopping uber/lyft from paying even less? Where is the thresh hold where the drivers just stop driving all together?
> 
> What can drivers do to combat this financial atrophy?


I hung up the keys at $.85. Anyone continuing to drive for such a rate is seriously out to lunch.


----------



## JapanFour

honestly I think the best solution is to just cheat uber as they cheat the drivers. Seriously just use every dirty little trick you can to get ahead, or get as much out of uber as possible... Like organizing your drivers and train areas to abuse the uber app to change surge rates, cancelling rides once you know surge has increased in the area to get a higher rated ping. 

All uber is doing is using language against us. Use that same language against them as much as possible.


----------



## Dan The Lyft Man

Uber and Lyft really push for the part time driver like myself. Because most of my expenses for using my car are paid by my main 40hrs a week job. My overall car usage for Uber/Lyft are about 20%. (Just mileage overall during the month). Which is nothing, I don't need to get more data on my plan, don't need rideshare gap insurance (yet) since Geico doesn't have it in Massachusetts (again yet). Just gas, waters and keeping the car clean, everything else is bank. It's fun to me, because I don't need this to put food on the table or keep the lights on. Which is what Uber/Lyft wants. Now if gas was at $4.00/gal again. Hummm I would have to think about it and really crunch the numbers.

Also, its fun... for me


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Dan The Lyft Man said:


> Uber and Lyft really push for the part time driver like myself. Because most of my expenses for using my car are paid by my main 40hrs a week job. My overall car usage for Uber/Lyft are about 20%. (Just mileage overall during the month). Which is nothing, I don't need to get more data on my plan, don't need rideshare gap insurance (yet) since Geico doesn't have it in Massachusetts (again yet). Just gas, waters and keeping the car clean, everything else is bank. It's fun to me, because I don't need this to put food on the table or keep the lights on. Which is what Uber/Lyft wants. Now if gas was at $4.00/gal again. Hummm I would have to think about it and really crunch the numbers.
> 
> Also, its fun... for me


At least you dont lie and say its a hobby.


----------



## JaxUbermom

Dan The Lyft Man said:


> Uber and Lyft really push for the part time driver like myself. Because most of my expenses for using my car are paid by my main 40hrs a week job. My overall car usage for Uber/Lyft are about 20%. (Just mileage overall during the month). Which is nothing, I don't need to get more data on my plan, don't need rideshare gap insurance (yet) since Geico doesn't have it in Massachusetts (again yet). Just gas, waters and keeping the car clean, everything else is bank. It's fun to me, because I don't need this to put food on the table or keep the lights on. Which is what Uber/Lyft wants. Now if gas was at $4.00/gal again. Hummm I would have to think about it and really crunch the numbers.
> 
> Also, its fun... for me


If they didn't want this to be full time, at least in certain markets, why would they come up with those ridiculous bonuses that require 40-60 hours of work to attain?
Granted after the debacle of the original $500/core brutal fiasco, they rolled out cut up versions, rather than just raise the rate (like the two trick pony they are) and keep consistent "part timers/hobbyists" more evenly distributed? They want part timers/full timers/all-timers, just like they want every person on the planet to think their product is cheaper than owning a vehicle. Please...


----------



## Dan The Lyft Man

TwoFiddyMile said:


> At least you dont lie and say its a hobby.


But trust me I am with you guys, when it comes to Uber. Even though they have treated me good. I hate that they cut rates in Worcester, which I don't do unless it surges. I have to go to the cites outside of Boston to run Lyft which is only a 25 min drive for me (no biggy). On a good note, since Worcester doesn't have UberPool. I never get any UberPool request when I am in the Boston area, just UberX/LyftLine.


----------



## Dan The Lyft Man

JaxUbermom said:


> If they didn't want this to be full time, at least in certain markets, why would they come up with those ridiculous bonuses that require 40-60 hours of work to attain?
> Granted after the debacle of the original $500/core brutal fiasco, they rolled out cut up versions, rather than just raise the rate (like the two trick pony they are) and keep consistent "part timers/hobbyists" more evenly distributed? They want part timers/full timers/all-timers, just like they want every person on the planet to think their product is cheaper than owning a vehicle. Please...


I am taking about areas with the big rate cuts... $0.70 per mile. Doing that as a full time job doesn't even work out as a part timer. Worcester is at $0.90 per mile and 90% of the PAX request are $4.00 rides after the commission. Thankfully Boston area is still at $1.24 per mile.


----------



## UofMDriver

secretadmirer said:


> crapids 70 cents/miles and drivers think they can still earn money... I wouldn't be surprised if they lowered the rates to 30/40 cents and the driving zombies would still think they're making money. Call it uber charity.....


Detroit is .30 per mile and .30 per minute. Wonder if we can hit a nickle next Winter Warm Up.


----------



## JaxUbermom

I see 1.24 @2x surge here. Which is the lowest rate I drive for, 95% of the time. And trust me, at the lower base rate, my town is filled with people doing it full time and then some. With no incentives and no bonus. It being stupidly cheaper doesn't lead to people doing it part time for extra cash taken from their car very much. It leads to MOST of them mindlessly grinding away for as little as 2.45 a ride for longer hours. Or an uneven distribution of drivers who only work during hours that surge will happen. It's like we have two completely different classes of drivers here. 

Do I do it full time? No. And heck no. Do I know people doing this for 14hrs a day 6 days a week... Yup. I suppose I might be support for your theory, but I know too many people that really dig that "flexibility, be my own boss" bull. They have become slaves to a completely different machine, but yup, it was their "free will". 

I don't think they give a rats ass what kind of driver you are. They just want you to drive as much as possible and try to influence the times of day via surge, bonus hours, etc, so they can pretend they didn't tell you when to drive. That you chose to do it. 

Eh. This is the most convoluted attempt at pretending they are not employers, and no, I don't want to be an employee. It is insanely difficult to run a business of any sort on this model without all these manipulations, hoops and crap. It's exhausting and cannot be profitable without screwing people over, but it's business. Who says people have to be treated with any sort of respect or dignity? 
Ugh.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

Dan The Lyft Man said:


> But trust me I am with you guys, when it comes to Uber. Even though they have treated me good. I hate that they cut rates in Worcester, which I don't do unless it surges. I have to go to the cites outside of Boston to run Lyft which is only a 25 min drive for me (no biggy). On a good note, since Worcester doesn't have UberPool. I never get any UberPool request when I am in the Boston area, just UberX/LyftLine.


I would think Framingham would be a sweet spot.
Its always been underserved by taxis.


----------



## Dan The Lyft Man

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I would think Framingham would be a sweet spot.
> Its always been underserved by taxis.


I have been working there too... I even work at times work out of Marlborough , you have a lot of office's there. There is also a Chinese English school there. A bunch of mall runs and runs to Boston during the weekends to Chinatown.


----------



## ORT

kideyse said:


> Even if the pay was 0, I bet people would still do it. Something about the way the partner app presents the ride request ping mesmorizes and hypnotizes them into driving zombies. No doubt much research was done in developing the app for mind control.


 That's how that Michigan guy lost his mind and ended up going on a killing spree.


----------



## ORT

Unfortunately here in NYC there is no such thing as illegal part time Uber gypsy drivers. It's feast or famine, mostly famine, reason I stopped driving for these filthy vermin months ago.


----------



## ORT

Chef Aarron said:


> I work in Jacksonville which is extremely spread out (largest city in the country!), but I choose where I work to maximize my profit. That, for me, means not having a lot of trips that run me away from where the best areas are. Even with the necessity of significant expressway driving here, my overall average speed is 28.07 mph for my last 1,754 trips. And I take the most efficient route everytime.
> 
> If trips from the burbs to downtown don't work, don't work the burbs. Duh!
> 
> I'll say again that if Detroit's time and distance rates are applied to the time and distance I've driven since I started, I would have made more money than I have at $0.65 a mile and $0.11 a minute.


So how exactly do you control where the pax wants to go, please enlighten us.


----------



## ORT

Finnegan said:


> SF and NY, are the last outposts.
> Numbers don't add up anywhere else.


You are not from NYC "and have no idea what the costs associated with operating a FHV/Black car are, that's what Uber is here a FHV/Black car", the numbers here have not added up for quite some time, reason I no longer drive for these vermin.


----------



## Chicago88

None of us have to drive for Uber.... hundreds of thousands are doing it. I believe most drivers quit in less than 3 months because of the low low low wages. The "class" and "quality" of the typical Uber driver is declining everyday.... 2001 cars and drivers with prison records are becoming more and more frequent, while it's not the norm it is the trend. Nothing against taxi drivers but very soon almost all Uber drivers will be identical to the stereo typical cab driver...a foreign immigrant perhaps lacking language skills who's looking for his American dream taking the easiest job available to a low skill, language challenged immigrant.


----------



## ORT

Chicago88 said:


> None of us have to drive for Uber.... hundreds of thousands are doing it. I believe most drivers quit in less than 3 months because of the low low low wages. The "class" and "quality" of the typical Uber driver is declining everyday.... 2001 cars and drivers with prison records are becoming more and more frequent, while it's not the norm it is the trend. Nothing against taxi drivers but very soon almost all Uber drivers will be identical to the stereo typical cab driver...a foreign immigrant perhaps lacking language skills who's looking for his American dream taking the easiest job available to a low skill, language challenged immigrant.


Sorry to inform you, but yellow taxi drivers are properly licensed and far from criminals, where are you getting your information from.


----------



## Chicago88

ORT said:


> Sorry to inform you, but yellow taxi drivers are properly licensed and far from criminals, where are you getting your information from.


I never implied or stated taxi drivers are criminal... I am a huge fan of the background checks and certification a taxi driver must have....I support ever purposed law that requires uber drivers have that exact requirement. I have a lot of respect for taxi drivers as I understand they are in fact much more certified for the job they do.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

I_Like_Spam said:


> As long as Uber can get a sufficient number of drivers to drive for low rates, they'll continue to offer low compensation.
> 
> I am sure they'd like to raise the rates charged to riders, that would be more $$ in their pockets, but that would be a difficult sell. Their press releases brag that their drivers are making more than ever with the reduced fares.
> 
> Its sort of interesting that I've heard plenty of ads for Uber on the radio, Sean Hannity and other prominent folks have been hired to shill for them, but ALL of the ads are to recruit partners not to push for more riders.


POST # 54/I_Like_Spam: Yet, for all the
OOOMPH that having
a VP of Customer Acquisition & Retention,
SHOULD bring to bear against their bet-
ter funded opponent, ALL the Comments
that I've read about Lyft "SUCCEEDING" 
versus "Its-ALL-about-the-Machiavellian-
Mindset" #[F]Uber seems to highlight their
being a Hapless & Hopeless "Also-Ran".

Please God, the Ca$h Transfusion from
GM came with some MINDS that are NOT
hellbent on fighting Insanity with Insanity.
I wonder how much of a Deposit Mercedes
got on that 100,000 $ Cla$$ "Order" just
announced ?

Mentoring Bison: S M H !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Michguy01 said:


> Right, but keep in mind that this forum represents a very small portion of drivers as a whole. I would say most detroit drivers HERE are pretty hip to the surges etc...The problem is the over-saturated new drivers that don't have a clue. I often see 5 or more drivers grouped together in a small area where there isn't even a surge....these cannot possibly be veteran drivers, they would know better.


POST # 67/Michguy01: It seems to me
that Driver Interaction
is Nonexistent. Is there NO ZELLO in
Motown ? If not, get Started !

Courageous in Palm Beach County is
the UPNF Expert and prepared to Pro-
vide Assistance to those interested.

Mentoring Bison: Seek. Find. Act. $ucceed!


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

JaxUbermom said:


> Just read an old article ... Phantom cars . I was ranting about morons clogging up a non surge area, but another driver and I tried to track them down physically and often could not. The delay, etc all taken into account, it was getting crazy.
> 
> I have no idea how many of these they stick out there so that they can manipulate surge to keep people/riders happy, but. Would explain why some drivers in between them and us seem to be passing the calls and are stupid enough to be online... On the other hand, I still see lots of nubs online at no surge, and I would LOVE to figure out how to convince them to jus TRY a concerted wait out... Lol.
> 
> Uber builds a system for desperate grinders. Plain and simple...regardless of the rate, I agree people seem to just help Uber run to the bottom and get suckered by $500/75 rides, etc. Why? Because if rates were higher there are still those not satisfied and trying to rope surge? Maybe. They are capitalists, why can't we be?


POST # 69/JaxUbermom: Are you JAX
Drivers utilizing ZELLO 
and "What's App?" to full advantage?
Driver Meet-ups like in LA ?

The UPNF Drivers in the "Early AM Crew"
[LA/OC SubForum] seem to make it work
for THEM. I don't even think that they
use Zello. A few Well-Placed "Convos"
COULD make The Difference. Tell'em
Bostonian Bison sent you!


----------



## ORT

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 69/JaxUbermom: Are you JAX
> Drivers utilizing ZELLO
> and "What's App?" to full advantage?
> Driver Meet-ups like in LA ?
> 
> The UPNF Drivers in the "Early AM Crew"
> [LA/OC SubForum] seem to make it work
> for THEM. I don't even think that they
> use Zello. A few Well-Placed "Convos"
> COULD make The Difference. Tell'em
> Bostonian Bison sent you!


Can you post like a regular human being, no offense.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Finnegan said:


> SF and NY, are the last outposts.
> Numbers don't add up anywhere else.


POST # 79/Finnegan: "Ahoy!" & Welcome
to UP.Net/Forums from
86°F, 100% Sunshine near Sunset, Marco
Island, on Florida's Wild SSW Coast.

I had to Wiki your "Bobby Jones" Avatar
as I had him confused with the One-
legged British WWI Veteran Ernest Jones,
author of "Swing the Clubhead. One of
HIS "Outside the Box" training methods
was swinging a penknife at the end of
a string !
Few of Today's Fans realize Bobby Jones'
status as Most Successful Amateur ever!

Mentoring Bison: Good choice, there.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

UofMDriver said:


> Actually Uber is doing all they can to get rid of drivers, with the automonous car venture. It appears to grind on them, that the driver behind the wheel needs to turn a profit.


POST # 102/UofMDriver : Glad to see
that the Speed of
your Learning Curve is Accelerating !

What "grinds" me is that Travis Brain-
Washes his Office Employees into treat-
ing Drivers as SubHuman. Then-departing
"Ex-CSR...with Equity", john djjjoe made
it Abundantly Clear in his 20 FEB 2015
"Complaints" Thread that in conversation
AND written communications, the Drivers
are referred to as"commodity"...small "c":

Http://uberpeople.net/posts/187189

☆ ☆ THE TRUTH ABOUT #[F]UBER ☆ ☆
Avarice+Deceit+Hubri$+Schadenfreude


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

JaxUbermom said:


> If your pax meant 2x as in one leg up and one leg down, then basically you are doing base fare up and back. And UNLESS YOU ARE COMMERCIALLY INSURED DO NOT WORK OFF AP. the whopping 12.00 extra you get for staying on his ride, on the ap is small compensation, but you might also need to consider the UBer cap on fare, miles. Have him sit in the car and restart the ride. You can drive up here so it doesn't matter. Whatever you do, never come on a public forum and discuss working off the ap without being fully licensed and insured. And I know you , wk1102 don't mean that. We have had too many intelligent conversations to even suspect you of such... Just pointing out for all the lurkers hoping to learn by reading.


POST # 114/JaxUbermom : Nice job
of Mentoring
JaxUbermom. An "Off-App" accident
could be Financially RUINOUS !


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

JaxUbermom said:


> My question after all of this numerical and theoretical statistical debate from non Detroit drivers is... Is anyone in Detroit surviving or even thriving off those rates, and if so, how? Uber set those rates at that ridiculously low amount for some reason of their own.
> 
> Gain rider share? Punish GM? Which is stupid because little of any cars are built in a once fine city.
> 
> Were they preying on drivers in a decimated economy or trying to get every last dime from riders in the same economy? Both?
> 
> What logical (no trolling) in their minds , reasoning did they have, and if it was so disastrous, why are people driving?
> Either way, why are people still driving there, and are they paying their bills or not? Because if they are, you can damned sure vet that if we DO NOT HOLD the line and educate drivers outside the internet and UPNF zone that accepting base rate rides is just saying YES to Uber, we are all screwed in the next round.
> There has not been enough pushback, but some. Uber gets to push the blame for surge back on drivers, then leads in with $500 for 75 rides in markets like LA, which this week was dropped to $300 but with an expanded map... And yes, people made those bonus challenges but surge was non existent. ...
> This is all one big constant pricing experiment by Uber and one thing is certain...only they make money because they get commissions off us and that fee from the riders.


POST # 123/JaxUbermom : VERY CLOSE!
Other Posters
saw the "Detroit Rate Message" as an
Effort to Punish Lyft for its New Angel,
General Motors.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

RichR said:


> How is what I posted "not quite" correct? Any _*fixed cost*_ shouldn't enter into the equation for determining how much it's costing you to drive for Uber using a car you already own. If you're buying additional insurance, that's _*not*_ a fixed cost. "Wiper blades"? Now you're straining gnat poop out of the pepper shaker.


POST # 128/RichR : A Salty Old Mainer
who handled
my Kodachrome 64 Processing [actu-
ally done at Kodak in Rochester, NY.]
in the.late 1970's would scoff at my con-
cerns over Visible Fingerprints on the 
Emulsion Side of my slides as "Picking 
the Flys☆☆t out of the Pepper."

Mentoring Bison: Good Times!


----------



## secretadmirer

Giddyup!!! With the rates so low, a rickshaw
would be better for ubering.
Hmm never heard of picking 
the flyshoot out of the pepperspray.

The mentoring secretadmirer awesome times!!!

the secret admirer inspires
the secret admirer conspires
the secret admirer desires
the secret admirer is chortling!!!!


----------



## TwoFiddyMile

This forum is getting weird.


----------



## secretadmirer

Giddyup!!! With the rates so low, a rickshaw
would be better for ubering.
Hmm never heard of picking 
the flyshoot out of the pepperspray.

The mentoring secretadmirer awesome times!!!

the secret admirer inspires
the secret admirer conspires
the secret admirer desires
the secret admirer is chortling!!!!


----------



## Finnegan

Love Bobby and earnest Jones. " swing the clubhead"

Now I wonder will we have the time and money to play anymore if 
rates keep dropping?



Casuale Haberdasher said:


> I had to Wiki your "Bobby Jones" Avatar
> as I had him confused with the One-
> legged British WWI Veteran Ernest Jones,
> author of "Swing the Clubhead. One of
> HIS "Outside the Box" training methods
> was swinging a penknife at the end of
> a string !


It is nevertheless a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul. 
- Bobby Jones


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## ORT

TwoFiddyMile said:


> This forum is getting weird.


It's like having entered the Twilight Zone.


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## Finnegan

Yes..declining pay rates will do that,and creeping poverty..... The inexorable 
march of the twilight zone


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## Greguzzi

Chef Aarron said:


> And those sort of major repairs are why I allocate $1,500 a year for repairs.
> 
> If your alignment goes to pot after a transmission swap, you really need to find a new shop! And if your front end is that worn out, clearly you are not maintaining your vehicle. You should be regularly checking for wear in tie rods, control arm bushings, wheel bearings, etc. But hey, of you want to maintain your car badly so that everything costs way more later, that's your choice, I suppose.
> 
> If you're allocating replacement cost and counting depreciation, you're even more clueless than I thought. I'm not even gonna bother explaining why because you won't get it anyway.
> 
> Finally, if you're supposedly taking the car to a shop for all the repairs and maintenance and you're supposedly allocating cost for vehicle replacement, then if you're claiming $0.30 a mile, I can smell that big steaming pile from here!










Go make me a sammich.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Greguzzi said:


> Go make me a sammich.


I think mommy read his posts and gave him a time out.


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## UberXking

2 year anniversary. Less than 6 hours. Still makin it happin'


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## Casuale Haberdasher

UberXking said:


> 2 year anniversary. Less than 6 hours. Still makin it happin'
> View attachment 33581


POST # 317/UberXking: God Bless you
for your Endurance
and Cast Iron Gluteals! The only thing
greater than you in Chico is the Sierra
Nevada Brewery. Happy Easter.

Bison Admires. Bison Inspires !


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## Casuale Haberdasher

Uberwagoner said:


> I have tried other types of app service companies in my area of Dallas-Fort Worth. DoorDash is worse than Uber as the ability to get a small order delivered within 59 minutes or less is not always possible due to traffic or the fact that the customer orders food/drink from some place that is not yet open for the day. I also had customers on DoorDash get upset because I was "too freakin' far away" to pickup their order and deliver it on time.


POST # 149/Uberwagoner: Thank You
for your Realistic
Assessment of DoorDash. What are the
Other App-Based "opportunities" that
you've tried your hand at in the DFW ?

Bison: Wave "Hello" to UberRey-4-me!


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## Orlando_Driver

I quit when rates dropped to 1.50 a mile in Orlando


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## MJBull13

RichR said:


> Oh, yes, because American businesses are so very greedy while others around the world are comparatively altruistic.


Just FYI, USA owns the title of King of Corporate greed. Its the corrupt politicians fault though, the corporations are just playing by the rules.
USA middle class has the smallest share of wealth of it coubtry than any other developed country in the world. Even Russia and China treat their own middle class better.
Uber isnt any different. 
Look at that billionaire that bought an obscure $7 per doss pill and jacked it up to $800 per pill? This is what happens every day in USA. Greed rules everything else.


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## Finnegan

There is a tipping point. Yes, drivers are a commodity, but what kind of drivers with what kind of cars will be willing to drive as rates decline?

The quality of driver and car will decline with the rates, the consumer will pushback. I could offer rides on the back of a motorcycle with a stable of convicted felons operating the business for 50cents a mile. Takers? A few.... But if they want quality drivers and quality cars I believe they have already reached the tipping point. Hence the power driver bonus in SF. Which equates to roughly a 20% raise for full time drivers.

I doubt that goes away.... If it does Uber will lose its remaining best drivers and best cars.
And I'll be happy to lead that exodus.


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## dpv

Look on the bright side. I just read 0.20 to 0.40 a mile is what truckers get paid for driving a truck.


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## Greguzzi

MJBull13 said:


> Just FYI, USA owns the title of King of Corporate greed. Its the corrupt politicians fault though, the corporations are just playing by the rules.
> USA middle class has the smallest share of wealth of it coubtry than any other developed country in the world. Even Russia and China treat their own middle class better.
> Uber isnt any different.
> Look at that billionaire that bought an obscure $7 per doss pill and jacked it up to $800 per pill? This is what happens every day in USA. Greed rules everything else.


No corporation is more greedy than the US government.


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## TwoFiddyMile

dpv said:


> Look on the bright side. I just read 0.20 to 0.40 a mile is what truckers get paid for driving a truck.


Close...
Those drivers dont OWN that truck or purchase the fuel.
It actually floats around .50 per mile, with zero expenses.
Tractor trailer owner ops make a chitload more than that, they have to- expenses exceed $200,000 per year.


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## vice

Uber don't give a **** about drivers

.


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## eyewall

We know they can get away with at least 30 cents a mile and still have drivers on.


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## ChortlingCrison

I guess if drivers are foolish enough to think they're making profits at 50cents/mile or less, it'll continue.


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## ChortlingCrison

vice said:


> Uber don't give a &%[email protected]!* about drivers
> 
> .


That's news to me. And here I thought they really cared about our well being. Thanks for clearing that up for me.


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## ChortlingCrison

tohunt4me said:


> Yet the 30 cents a minute is enviable.


Yes to drivers in India.


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## kideyse

RichR said:


> Working for Uber is no different than working any other job in that regard. You're always competing against someone else who is able and willing to do the job for less.
> 
> And everybody likes to use Detroit as an example. But, when you consider their 30¢/mile AND their 30¢/minute, unless they're driving significantly faster than the rest of us, Detroit's rate figures to be about the same as mine at 70¢ + 11¢.


Detroit had it great in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, but after NAFTA , all the jobs went to Mexico. Now instead of UAW wages of $30/hr, we r talking about 30 cents / mile and minute. What a contrast!!!


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## Chef Aarron

ORT said:


> So how exactly do you control where the pax wants to go, please enlighten us.


Easy. If you don't want trips that take you out of area, work in areas where locals tend to stay local. If you don't mind airport trips, work around hotels. If you don't want long trips, don't work areas that are outliers far removed from the core of a community and spread out. It's really pretty simple to increase your odds of the type of trip you're looking for just by paying attention and knowing the communities you serve. Is this 100% fool proof? Of course not. But can you dramatically increase your chances? Absolutely.


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## ORT

Chef Aarron said:


> Easy. If you don't want trips that take you out of area, work in areas where locals tend to stay local. If you don't mind airport trips, work around hotels. If you don't want long trips, don't work areas that are outliers far removed from the core of a community and spread out. It's really pretty simple to increase your odds of the type of trip you're looking for just by paying attention and knowing the communities you serve. Is this 100% fool proof? Of course not. But can you dramatically increase your chances? Absolutely.


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## ChortlingCrison

Chef Aarron said:


> Easy. If you don't want trips that take you out of area, work in areas where locals tend to stay local. If you don't mind airport trips, work around hotels. If you don't want long trips, don't work areas that are outliers far removed from the core of a community and spread out. It's really pretty simple to increase your odds of the type of trip you're looking for just by paying attention and knowing the communities you serve. Is this 100% fool proof? Of course not. But can you dramatically increase your chances? Absolutely.


 I'll make a note of that. Thanks.


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## Chef Aarron

ChortlingCrison said:


> I'll make a note of that. Thanks.


I don't know if you should - odds is sort of a math concept.....


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## William1964

Uber makes more money when all the rides are surge.

They will keep cutting as long as there's surge.

Don't expect a Band-Aid


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## Chef Aarron

William1964 said:


> Uber makes more money when all the rides are surge.
> 
> They will keep cutting as long as there's surge.
> 
> Don't expect a Band-Aid


Uber makes even more money when there's surge and the rates are higher. The money angle makes no sense.

Uber also gets more surge when there are fewer drivers, yet they keep hiring to the point of over saturating markets.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Chef Aarron said:


> Uber makes even more money when there's surge and the rates are higher. The money angle makes no sense.
> 
> Uber also gets more surge when there are fewer drivers, yet they keep hiring to the point of over saturating markets.


Uber makes revenue on every fulfilled ping.
Their goal has always been...
"That no ping should ever go unserviced".
Sometimes you show signs of being bright.
This time, no so much.


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## Chef Aarron

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Uber makes revenue on every fulfilled ping.
> Their goal has always been...
> "That no ping should ever go unserviced".
> Sometimes you show signs of being bright.
> This time, no so much.


When there are so many drivers in an area that there are constantly drivers sitting idle, there ARE NO unfulfilled pings. Uber will still surge the area based on historical demand. I see it all the time at the Jacksonville Beaches. 20 cars sitting in 6 blocks and it still goes into surge every hour. You are drinking the surge Kool-Aid if you think that surge means unfulfilled requests. Once again, TwoFiddyBrainCells, you prove you have no idea what you're talking about.


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## Greguzzi

Chef Aarron said:


> When there are so many drivers in an area that there are constantly drivers sitting idle, there ARE NO unfulfilled pings. Uber will still surge the area based on historical demand. I see it all the time at the Jacksonville Beaches. 20 cars sitting in 6 blocks and it still goes into surge every hour. You are drinking the surge Kool-Aid if you think that surge means unfulfilled requests. Once again, TwoFiddyBrainCells, you prove you have no idea what you're talking about.


Chefy is correct on this.

Watch the rider app and prove it to yourself. You can do this from your couch. IMM in some neighborhoods, the people there will just not pay high surge pricing. The whole neighborhood can be lit up in 3.5x surge with 5 cars sitting there not getting pings. Then, the surge subsides to 1.2x, and you see the cars disappear one-by-one. Surge is predictive, not demand-driven.


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## ChortlingCrison

TwoFiddyMile said:


> This forum is getting weird.


That's why we need you here "twofiddymile", to put things in uber perspective.


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## Hunt to Eat

ChortlingCrison said:


> That's why we need you here "twofiddymile", to put things in uber perspective.


The malnourished coyote seconds that notion, ChorCri.


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## ChortlingCrison

Hunt to Eat said:


> The malnourished coyote seconds that notion, ChorCri.


There you are! A few weeks a go I PM'd you but got the wrong member. lol. All I said in the message was what happened to your avator? Meep meep


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## Hunt to Eat

ChortlingCrison said:


> There you are! A few weeks a go I PM'd you but got the wrong member. lol. All I said in the message was what happened to your avator? Meep meep


The coyote has been busy with his panoply of Acme products, tirelessly trying to catch that friggin bird! The catapult seemed like a good plan...but, alas...it was not.


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## RollTide246

*I think that Uber drivers should make more $$*. That being said, I am working on a start up that would allow Uber drivers to make more money without changing their current routine as a driver. Without disclosing too much information, how much (per week) would it take (USD$) for you as a driver to place a data gathering device on the outside of your car each day before you drive? (works like a magnet and you charge it at night). You do nothing different other than receive a check or direct deposit.

Reply to the post below. I would love to hear everyone's opinion.


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## Uber2.0

RollTide246 said:


> *I think that Uber drivers should make more $$*. That being said, I am working on a start up that would allow Uber drivers to make more money without changing their current routine as a driver. Without disclosing too much information, how much (per week) would it take (USD$) for you as a driver to place a data gathering device on the outside of your car each day before you drive? (works like a magnet and you charge it at night). You do nothing different other than receive a check or direct deposit.
> 
> Reply to the post below. I would love to hear everyone's opinion.


$250/wk


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## gofry

TwoFiddyMile said:


> This forum is getting weird.


_Getting_ weird?


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## kong1802

I've now driven twice. I've done 24 rides. The first night I thought was great. I made $90 before I subtracted gas. This was for 4 hours and I thought it was definitely worth it. Last Saturday night I went out from 10pm-4AM. I kept getting pings so I kept driving. I ended up with $82 pre gas. I started doing the math, and after gas, that's about $10/hr. The rates are way to low, and no one tips. I took someone 25 miles one way. For me, that was a 50 mile roundtrip, and my cut was $15. Not worth it. Once you factor in wear and tear, you really do not make much more than minimum wage. I'm convinced that Uber is really a more elaborate MLM, like those you see on Facebook constantly. I'm staying in until I get my bonus. I'm sure that's what most people do. The only way to make real money is to convince others to sign up so that you get these bonuses constantly. They will stay until they get their bonus, and probably quit. I'm not about to go out there and try to convince others, because I don't believe in it. But to those who promote the company, they probably do ok. They need to raise rates. $6 for 6 people to ride 10 miles? Those 6 people wouldn't pay $10? That's still way lower than a taxi. If they raise rates 20%, I think drivers would stick around longer. If my cut had been at least $100 last Saturday, I would have had a more positive outlook.


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## Hunt to Eat

kong1802 said:


> I've now driven twice. I've done 24 rides. The first night I thought was great. I made $90 before I subtracted gas. This was for 4 hours and I thought it was definitely worth it. Last Saturday night I went out from 10pm-4AM. I kept getting pings so I kept driving. I ended up with $82 pre gas. I started doing the math, and after gas, that's about $10/hr. The rates are way to low, and no one tips. I took someone 25 miles one way. For me, that was a 50 mile roundtrip, and my cut was $15. Not worth it. Once you factor in wear and tear, you really do not make much more than minimum wage. I'm convinced that Uber is really a more elaborate MLM, like those you see on Facebook constantly. I'm staying in until I get my bonus. I'm sure that's what most people do. The only way to make real money is to convince others to sign up so that you get these bonuses constantly. They will stay until they get their bonus, and probably quit. I'm not about to go out there and try to convince others, because I don't believe in it. But to those who promote the company, they probably do ok. They need to raise rates. $6 for 6 people to ride 10 miles? Those 6 people wouldn't pay $10? That's still way lower than a taxi. If they raise rates 20%, I think drivers would stick around longer. If my cut had been at least $100 last Saturday, I would have had a more positive outlook.


National average is $7 to $9 per hour. You math looks good.


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## Lnsky

Trebor said:


> As long as a driver feels like Uber pays enough for the gas, drivers will keeping driving.


^ This. It is no better than a high interest payday loan. You are loosing money driving for them but it is a short term gain offered to desperate people. People will keep driving until they start loosing money on gas and maybe even still then if they have the credit to float then but are cash poor.


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## JapanFour

so Ive tried to do this job regularly, and on busy nights. 

I pity anyone who does this job regularly. 

The best money for me, since I work full time is just scouting events and riding the wave when it comes. 

Every time I try to do this daily I get burned.


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## Tired of this

Ultra sad reality, but I had drunk 2 guys holding a pizza and offered to give me 2 slices for driving them a few blocks home. I politely declined, but then realized that 2 slices costs more than the $2.40 I would earn on a minimum fare.


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## elelegido

RollTide246 said:


> how much (per week) would it take (USD$) for you as a driver to place a data gathering device on the outside of your car each day before you drive?


One MILLION dollars. Mmmwwaahhaahaahaaaaa


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## tohunt4me

Hunt to Eat said:


> The coyote has been busy with his panoply of Acme products, tirelessly trying to catch that friggin bird! The catapult seemed like a good plan...but, alas...it was not.


Worked fine for "Uber Pool Launch"


----------



## tohunt4me

elelegido said:


> One MILLION dollars. Mmmwwaahhaahaahaaaaa


But ,the Data gathering Device,is in YOUR Uber app,and You pay THEM for it !


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## TwoFiddyMile

ChortlingCrison said:


> That's why we need you here "twofiddymile", to put things in uber perspective.


Depressing to stick around.
Uber gets in deep doodoo every freaking week but appears to thrive.
I concentrate on running my business and struggling to stay in the black from week to week.

Then, I have experiences like the other night, dropping off at the "Dead and Friends" concert...seeing 25 Ubers to 1 taxi.
Are you [email protected]#$% me?
No surge, traffic jam from hell, and these dweebs keep destroying really nice cars in a .75 market for free after repairs.
Like I said, depressing.
Theres reasons guys like me and Chi1cabby don't post- Uber gets fatally shot at least once a week and refuses to die.
[email protected]#$ Uber.


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## I_Like_Spam

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Then, I have experiences like the other night, dropping off at the "Dead and Friends" concert...seeing 25 Ubers to 1 taxi.
> Are you [email protected]#$% me?
> No surge, traffic jam from hell, and these dweebs keep destroying really nice cars in a .75 market for free after repairs.
> .


Sooner or later, this too shall pass. Uber has an uber-progressive reputation, they've convinced millions that there is nothing to the livery biz and its just such an easy way to make money even if they are being paid next to nothing for the privilege.

Its going to take a little while for reality to sink in, that's its actual work and drivers actually incur large expenses in shuttling people around from where they are to where they want to be.


----------

