# Leaving Black Out Drunks on the sidewalk or in their driveway.. any liability?



## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

I had a black out drunk in my car on Friday night. Passed out 3 minutes into a 14 minute ride. Arrived at his destination, townhouse complex. Tried for almost 15 minutes to wake him and get him out of my back seat. He would not budge just moan a little. Pulled him out of the car and left him laying in his driveway.. Got a ping, left to pick up new pax.

Has anyone else had this experience? If so, is there any liability to the driver once you end the trip and leave them on their property?

And yes, I knocked on the door to his residence and rang the doorbell, nobody answered.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

YES, there is huge liablilty! If the pax is unresponsive, call 9-1-1. You can't just leave them there to die.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

Why would you assume they are going to die? lol, this was not a medical emergency this was a drunk.


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## Johnydoo (Jul 25, 2017)

Your job is to drive from A to B. You are not a babysitter. They call it "drop off" for a reason


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## emdeplam (Jan 13, 2017)

Guy chokes on vomit. Police will investigate. If they connect the dots you physically moved the body. Longshot police connect anything, but on


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Had that happen to me once.
Wasn't far from a hospital, so I took him to ER and told the admitting clerk that I "have a guy in my car that's having trouble breathing." They took him out RFN. Gotta use the right terminology though. Not, "they guy is passed out drunk", but, "having trouble breathing."
She asked me to come in for paperwork, I said, "sure, as soon as I park" then got back on the road. 
Easy peasy.

PS: Same thing for 911. If you gotta call for a cop, tell them you think your pax has a gun, or tell them YOU have a gun ... they'll be there pronto. Otherwise ... yer on your own. Make it sound worse than it is.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

NHDriver said:


> lol, this was not a medical emergency this was a drunk.


Based on what you learned in medical school?

How do you know it was *not* a medical emergency? How do you know it wasn't an opiod overdose, or a stroke, or a seizure, or diabetic emergency, or cardiac problem, or respiratory emergency? Did you do a legitimate patient assessment?

Just call 911 and let professionals handle it.

Leaving an unresponsive pax on the sidewalk is just plain stupid.


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

I had one of these...

I called the police and reported...

That I left a drunk passed out pax...

Ask them to do a "welfare check"on him...

I also gave them my number...

And asked them to call back...

And let me know he was ok...

They responded...and I got called back...

They said I handled it perfectly...

They said it took a cop...

And two paramedics to get him in the house...

End of story...

Pick up a drunk pax...

You ARE responsible...

Do the right thing...Whatever it is...8>)

Rakos


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

NHDriver said:


> Why would you assume they are going to die? lol, this was not a medical emergency this was a drunk.


Believe it or not people can die from booze. I remember people going to the ER for stomach pumps in college.

I think 911 is the way to go right off the bat. You also get the added satisfaction of knowing how hilariously embarrassed that fool would be when the cops are called on him.



emdeplam said:


> Guy chokes on vomit. Police will investigate. If they connect the dots you physically moved the body. Longshot police connect anything, but on


Actually it's not a long shot at all! The cops will wonder how he got there, find out from his friends who say he ubered, now they know you dropped him off and they interview you about his condition.


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## u-Boat (Jan 4, 2016)

Don't let black-out drunks into your vehicle in the first place. Problem solved.


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

u-Boat said:


> Don't let black-out drunks into your vehicle in the first place. Problem solved.


Yes...it was a mistake to let them...

Put him in my car...

Bartenders and bouncers will do that...

If you let them...

In my defense...I knew him...

Had given him rides before...

Just didn't expect it...

To go the way it did...

Rakos


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## keb (Jul 8, 2017)

I still can't believe how many stupid drunks we have. When do people grow up?


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

About age 50 in general...8>)

Rakos

PS. Don't forget... There's a child in all of us....8>)


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## Nick781 (Dec 7, 2014)

Never do that ever again. 

Yell there name loudly get them to wake up if they don't especially that long call 911 for help...


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## Brian-drives (Jan 13, 2015)

Sleeping Drunks are the best passengers ! !
Somehow there is always an accident on the way home am we have to make a long detour.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

JimKE said:


> Based on what you learned in medical school?
> 
> How do you know it was *not* a medical emergency? How do you know it wasn't an opiod overdose, or a stroke, or a seizure, or diabetic emergency, or cardiac problem, or respiratory emergency? Did you do a legitimate patient assessment?
> 
> ...


Because he was have a slurred conversation before he nodded off. And because I was an EMT for 4 years.



u-Boat said:


> Don't let black-out drunks into your vehicle in the first place. Problem solved.


He got in my car on his own just fine and started talking to me for a few minutes. Then passed out. Not the first pax that has passed out in my car after we start chatting a bit.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

NHDriver said:


> Has anyone else had this experience? If so, is there any liability to the driver once you end the trip and leave them on their property?


Research the Long Beach CA case of a wrongful death lawsuit against Uber driver Festus Okoh for the negligent homocide of Uber pax Ryan Anderson. Okoh dropped off a visibly impaired Ryan close to his home. Inebriated Ryan gained entry into a wrong home and was shot dead by the homeowner. 
Even if Okoh is found 0% responsible I'm sure his legal fees will be in the tens of thousands. By the way, Okah ended the ride when he dropped Ryan off and was not covered by Uber's insurance.
So the answer to your question of you being liable? Yes, you are part of a multi billion dollar company. Every one wants a piece of that pie.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> Believe it or not people can die from booze. I remember people going to the ER for stomach pumps in college.
> 
> I think 911 is the way to go right off the bat. You also get the added satisfaction of knowing how hilariously embarrassed that fool would be when the cops are called on him.
> 
> Actually it's not a long shot at all! The cops will wonder how he got there, find out from his friends who say he ubered, now they know you dropped him off and they interview you about his condition.


I dropped him off officer, he got out of the car and I left officer.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

So if you go past the rider's house and drop him off instead at ER you get the extra miles right?


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Research the Long Beach CA case of a wrongful death lawsuit against Uber driver Festus Okoh for the negligent homocide of Uber pax Ryan Anderson. Okoh dropped off a visibly impaired Ryan close to his home. Inebriated Ryan gained entry into a wrong home and was shot dead by the homeowner.
> Even if Okoh is found 0% responsible I'm sure his legal fees will be in the tens of thousands. By the way, Okah ended the ride when he dropped Ryan off and was not covered by Uber's insurance.
> So the answer to your question of you being liable? Yes, you are part of a multi billion dollar company. Every one wants a piece of that pie.


Interesting -- why would driver Okoh be responsible for a passenger that went into the wrong house because he was drunk ??
It is not a drivers job to make certain a paxs - drunk or sober - enters the correct address. I dont see a case here but he will still have to hire an defense attorney, which starts at $1000 and only goes up.


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## NYCFunDriver (Dec 31, 2016)

I had a PAX pass out drunk in my vehicle over St. Patrick's Day weekend. She was picked up in Manhattan and drove her forty minutes to her house located in Queens. Early on in the trip she talked my ear off saying inappropriate things regarding a past relationship with ex. Although I didn't want to engage in the conversation I was polite. Finally she remained silent. 

When I arrived at her drop locale I told her she was home. No response. I repeated it again. No response. I got out of my vehicle opened the back door shook her lightly. No response. She was breathing as that was the first thing I checked. Immediately, I called 911 for assistance to send police to the address I was at. They showed up 15 minutes later. I was asked if I knocked on the door and replied no, because I deemed it as unsafe when you don't know who or what lives there. They did it instead. Her roommates were home and came outside to get her out of the vehicle and get her to bed. Better them than me. Had I moved her myself and left her there I could've been liable should something happen to her. 

My advice to the OP and those who get into a similar situation call 911 and let the police deal with it. By not doing so you're setting yourself up.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

KK2929 said:


> Interesting -- why would driver Okoh be responsible for a passenger that went into the wrong house because he was drunk ??
> It is not a drivers job to make certain a paxs - drunk or sober - enters the correct address. I dont see a case here but he will still have to hire an defense attorney, which starts at $1000 and only goes up.


The driver has no way of knowing where the pax actually lives, only the address on the waybill to drop him off. I just went through the ToS and there is no mention of a driver being responsible for a pax before or after the pax leaves the vehicle.

I am sure that you all heard and maybe saw the video of the 5 teens in Florida that watch a man drown and made fun of him while he drown and took video of it. Appalling as it may be, legally they were not responsible to aid the drowning victim and did not put the victim in the position. Legal experts looked for ways to charge the teens, but in the end they could not press any charges.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

KK2929 said:


> Interesting -- why would driver Okoh be responsible for a passenger that went into the wrong house because he was drunk ??
> It is not a drivers job to make certain a paxs - drunk or sober - enters the correct address. I dont see a case here but he will still have to hire an defense attorney, which starts at $1000 and only goes up.


Because as a business owner (what every independent contractor Uber driver is) you are required to be reasonable when dealing with the public. Even if a jury finds Okoh only 5% at fault that could still be detrimental in a wrongful death lawsuit.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

Reasonable would be defined as performing the service as contracted. Pick up and drop off. A driver is not responsible for the actions of a pax after he/she has performed the service that he/she was contracted to do for the agreed upon price. Would a public transit bus driver be under the same obligation? Drunk pax gets off the bus and goes into the wrong home?


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> So if you go past the rider's house and drop him off instead at ER you get the extra miles right?


Yes, I did.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Research the Long Beach CA case of a wrongful death lawsuit against Uber driver Festus Okoh for the negligent homocide of Uber pax Ryan Anderson. Okoh dropped off a visibly impaired Ryan close to his home. Inebriated Ryan gained entry into a wrong home and was shot dead by the homeowner.
> Even if Okoh is found 0% responsible I'm sure his legal fees will be in the tens of thousands. By the way, Okah ended the ride when he dropped Ryan off and was not covered by Uber's insurance.
> So the answer to your question of you being liable? Yes, you are part of a multi billion dollar company. Every one wants a piece of that pie.


It appears that the claim by Ryan's estate against Okoh and Uber was dismissed.

_An agreement to drive Decedent home does not become a voluntary undertaking to protecting Decedent's safety, factually, simply because Plaintiffs so claim.

Decedent was not attacked by a street criminal in the dangerous area of town where he was left. The judicially admitted facts are too attenuated to establish foreseeability of the injury actually suffered. Neither Mr. Okoh nor Uber could foresee that Decedent would wander into a stranger's home and be shot and killed by accident.

The Court rules as a matter of law that Mr. Okoh's conduct was not that proximate cause of Plaintiff's injury._


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Spotscat said:


> It appears that the claim by Ryan's estate against Okoh and Uber was dismissed.
> 
> _An agreement to drive Decedent home does not become a voluntary undertaking to protecting Decedent's safety, factually, simply because Plaintiffs so claim.
> 
> ...


I wonder how much Mr. Okoh had to pay for that decision.


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## Notjust A. Nutherant (Jun 10, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> Had that happen to me once.
> Wasn't far from a hospital, so I took him to ER and told the admitting clerk that I "have a guy in my car that's having trouble breathing." They took him out RFN. Gotta use the right terminology though. Not, "they guy is passed out drunk", but, "having trouble breathing."
> She asked me to come in for paperwork, I said, "sure, as soon as I park" then got back on the road.
> Easy peasy.
> ...


"PS: Same thing for 911. If you gotta call for a cop, *tell them you think your pax has a gun, or tell them YOU have a gun* ... they'll be there pronto. Otherwise ... yer on your own. Make it sound worse than it is."

Ummm....unless it's true, you would not want to report something of that nature. Trust me. A call like this can quickly escalate.

If anything, request medical for someone passed out....you'll get asked questions..(are they conscious; breathing blah blah).....if you want to get more involved, answer. Otherwise simply state the subject is passed out and that's all you know.
Medical will respond, aid them, and subsequently call PD, if deemed necessary.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

NHDriver said:


> Why would you assume they are going to die? lol, this was not a medical emergency this was a drunk.


Jimi Hendrix


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

You really need to call 911.

That's all I have to say 911 usually responds pretty quick.


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## SobrbNWI (Sep 27, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> You really need to call 911.
> 
> That's all I have to say 911 usually responds pretty quick.


I think this varies greatly, depending on location.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

SobrbNWI said:


> I think this varies greatly, depending on location.


You know what doesn't Vary by location?

Criminally negligent manslaughter...

(Actually the name varies greatly by location)


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

NHDriver said:


> I dropped him off officer, he got out of the car and I left officer.


God help you if there is even one piece of evidence proving you lied about that... A neighbor with a security camera where you are caught dragging the body out of your vehicle.
Better hope he got up, walked inside and then came back out and died.

If he died where you left him smh done son.

So, I say, get them on camera "I authorize my driver, should I become none responsive or unconscious, to drive me to the hospital of their preference and authorize all charges and fees associated with this trip."
Make sure you end the trip at that preferred drop off and don't forget to tip yourself taking into consideration any/all mileage and the fact that you probably just saved their life.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

Nobody died lol. No low star rating. Got him home safely to his residence. I hope the message to this rider is, I cannot expect my driver to tuck me into bed when I drink irresponsibly. I do appreciate the feedback though. Thank you for the responses.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

As for the drunk


NHDriver said:


> Reasonable would be defined as performing the service as contracted. Pick up and drop off. A driver is not responsible for the actions of a pax after he/she has performed the service that he/she was contracted to do for the agreed upon price. Would a public transit bus driver be under the same obligation? Drunk pax gets off the bus and goes into the wrong home?


Yes, I agree with you. After he gets out of the car, my job is complete.


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## Spotscat (May 8, 2017)

Something to consider in these circumstances is what in legal terms is known as the "totality of the circumstances". There is no clear cut answer as to what, if any, liability a driver would have - every incident is unique in its circumstances.

Among the circumstances that would be taken into consideration when determining whether to file criminal and/or civil charges against a driver, there would be --

*Condition of the passenger* -- What physical condition was the passenger in when they were dropped off? Were they able to move of their own accord, albeit unsteadily? Did they require assistance? Or, were they not ambulatory, ie: passed out and unable to move even with assistance?

*Location* -- Where was the passenger dropped off at? Were they dropped off at the destination of their choosing, or were they abandoned at a location where they would have no idea of where they were?

*Weather* -- What were the ambient weather conditions at the time the passenger was dropped off? Was it daytime? Nighttime? Hot, warm, cool, cold, sub-zero? Raining? Snowing?

Consider the two following examples --

1) Driver gives an intoxicated passenger a ride one night in late July. Passenger is passed out during the ride, and upon arrival needs to be awakened and helped out of the vehicle. Passenger then stumbles up the stairs onto their enclosed front porch. Driver completes trip and leaves. Passenger sits down in lawn chair on front porch, passes out again, and gags on own vomit during the night and dies.

2) Driver gives an intoxicated passenger a ride one night in late January. Passenger vomits in vehicle and passes out. Driver terminates ride before final destination, has to physically drag passenger out of the vehicle, and leaves them passed out on a park bench, where they freeze to death overnight.

See the difference in the "totality of the circumstances"? While both passengers were intoxicated to the point of unconsciousness and required assistance to exit the vehicle, the unique circumstances of each instance would certainly factor in any decision to initiate civil or criminal proceedings.

The original poster stated that he "Tried for almost 15 minutes to wake him and get him out of my back seat. He would not budge just moan a little. Pulled him out of the car and left him laying in his driveway."

While I can't say if he would or would not be liable if something happened to the passenger, especially without knowing more details of the incident, what I will say is this --

Dragging someone out of the vehicle and leaving them passed out somewhere, makes me more possibly liable than I am comfortable being.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

Spotscat said:


> Something to consider in these circumstances is what in legal terms is known as the "totality of the circumstances". There is no clear cut answer as to what, if any, liability a driver would have - every incident is unique in its circumstances.
> 
> Among the circumstances that would be taken into consideration when determining whether to file criminal and/or civil charges against a driver, there would be --
> 
> ...


All great things to consider and valid points. Thank you for your feedback. What I briefly mentioned that also came into consideration on my part is the following:

I was a licensed and practicing EMT for 4 years. Before pulling the pax out I checked his breathing, clear passage way, no sign of physical trauma, not wearing any medical bracelet or necklace. Skin color was normal, no indication of a seizure, no indication of stroke or heart distress. No evidence of prescriptive medication. Now that is not to say that couldn't develop after I left but any person that is sober can suffer a stroke or heart attack after leaving your vehicle.

Also, temperature was clear and 65 degrees, was dropped off at the correct destination (residence), was laying face down to keep him from choking, was laid down gently to avoid any physical trauma. My only regret was not accessing his app and 5 star rating myself and adding a tip for my wasted time and extra effort.

There was time, if a 911 call came in, I would have been one of the EMT's responding. Difference is I had no medical equipment if needed and if i determine he needed medical attention I obviously would not have left him there. Might have actually stayed longer if I didn't get a ping 

If it was a female I would not have left!


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

Rakos said:


> About age 50 in general...8>)
> 
> Rakos
> 
> PS. Don't forget... There's a child in all of us....8>)


Thank god. I thought it was never going to happen. I still have time


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Notjust A. Nutherant said:


> "PS: Same thing for 911. If you gotta call for a cop, *tell them you think your pax has a gun, or tell them YOU have a gun* ... they'll be there pronto. Otherwise ... yer on your own. Make it sound worse than it is."
> 
> Ummm....unless it's true, you would not want to report something of that nature. Trust me. A call like this can quickly escalate.
> 
> ...


I guess every town is different. My town is over run with tweekers and junkies and illegal aliens and homeless, so the cops are overwhelmed. In Redding, you are very much on your own for a long time, even in an emergency.
If I say I _think _that someone has a gun, I am not false reporting. If I need a cop, RFN, I will use that term, otherwise they'll check into it in about an hour. I had an active prowler on my property once, and I told the dispatch that if they couldn't get a cop to me in ten minutes, to send the coroner with a rubber bag whenever they could get around to it. Five minutes later they had him in handcuffs in the back of a patrol car. Cop even said, "Phoning in a false report is a crime." I told him that I sure didn't want to break the law, so "take him out of the back of your car so I can shoot him."


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

NHDriver said:


> If it was a female I would not have left!


Male lives matter


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

Strange Fruit said:


> Male lives matter


Only if they tip and give 5 star ratings. Otherwise, not so much


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

NHDriver said:


> Only if they tip and give 5 star ratings. Otherwise, not so much


No lives matter*.

*I mean, like, 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of all the living things that've been on Earth are dead. So maybe no lives matter


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## LEO2112 (Jul 23, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Jimi Hendrix


Bon Scott (AC/DC)


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## Vandergal (Sep 5, 2017)

I take them to the closest police station and drop them off to wake up in the drunk tank. I make sure they are well informed of this fact "If you pass out in my car you'll wake up in the drunk tank!"


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## UBERPROcolorado (Jul 16, 2017)

NHDriver said:


> I had a black out drunk in my car on Friday night. Passed out 3 minutes into a 14 minute ride. Arrived at his destination, townhouse complex. Tried for almost 15 minutes to wake him and get him out of my back seat. He would not budge just moan a little. Pulled him out of the car and left him laying in his driveway.. Got a ping, left to pick up new pax.
> 
> Has anyone else had this experience? If so, is there any liability to the driver once you end the trip and leave them on their property?
> 
> And yes, I knocked on the door to his residence and rang the doorbell, nobody answered.


you should never touch a rider. Ever! Let the PD or EMS remove the rider. The list of bad thinks that could happen to you, by dragging a rider out of your car is endless.


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

u-Boat said:


> Don't let black-out drunks into your vehicle in the first place. Problem solved.


Uh, you don't always know.

I had a girl who was super normal acting, but passed out cold on my way to her place. I mean, dead passed out. Worse, she pulled her top up and almost off while she was in the back seat.

I have a firm, fast rule on this....first, don't touch the pax, EVER. NEVER. Second, if they're unresponsive, call the police and have them removed from the vehicle. This takes care of all issues. If they're in danger, police take care of it. If they want to report you for something, police are there for an official record of your good actions (and I have a dash cam too). Also, you're doing the right thing and might keep someone from laying on the sidewalk choking on their own vomit.


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## Jamez400 (Apr 22, 2017)

Don't forget what a stroke victim might look like


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

There are no absolutes. It seems like the sequence you describe invites a lot of needless hassle. 

As an EMT, you may have had qualified immunity (and/or a set of standing orders signed off by an MD) to protect you. 

As an Uber driver, you have neither. You are likely to be judged on how reasonable your actions appear to be in the eyes of a jury. Questions like:
- What was the situation? 
- What options were available to you?
- Why did you choose the option(s) that you did?
- Did you exercise reasonable judgement?
- Did you do anything to make the situation worse? Was this foreseeable? 

If someone is unconscious in an Uber, a reasonable person would expect you to call 9-1-1, or at least avoid placing the rider in a potentially harmful situation. It sounds like you took some precautions in that regard, which is good.

I probably would have just called up those police/fire/paramedic folks with the qualified immunity and let them handle it.


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## Abraxas79 (Feb 7, 2016)

swingset said:


> Uh, you don't always know.
> 
> I had a girl who was super normal acting, but passed out cold on my way to her place. I mean, dead passed out. Worse, she pulled her top up and almost off while she was in the back seat.
> 
> I have a firm, fast rule on this....first, don't touch the pax, EVER. NEVER. Second, if they're unresponsive, call the police and have them removed from the vehicle. This takes care of all issues. If they're in danger, police take care of it. If they want to report you for something, police are there for an official record of your good actions (and I have a dash cam too). Also, you're doing the right thing and might keep someone from laying on the sidewalk choking on their own vomit.


I would not want to be in your situation. Do you think she is going to remember pulling her top off or trying to. No. The finger is going to be firmly planted in our direction.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

u-Boat said:


> Don't let black-out drunks into your vehicle in the first place. Problem solved.


I always keep my car door locked and roll down the window to evaluate a potential passenger. If they're drunk-drunk (not black out) I insist on a person being with them during the ride. To hold my bona fide hospital barf bag. Otherwise, I wouldn't take anyone who might barf in my car while I'm doing 65 down the freeway and unable to pull over. There was some debate on a local FB Uber group about a female passenger who was so drunk she was passed out on the sidewalk. A few said she should have been taken because it's "our responsibility" - what??? That is one case where I would call the police to evaluate and they could choose to call paramedics. That she had no friends with her is telling, if you ask me.



NHDriver said:


> I dropped him off officer, he got out of the car and I left officer.


Except so many houses have excellent video quality surveillance outside their homes...


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

swingset said:


> Uh, you don't always know.
> 
> I had a girl who was super normal acting, but passed out cold on my way to her place. I mean, dead passed out.


My wife is like this. We don't drink like we used to when we were young ... but, I remember the first time we were partying and I remember being impressed by the fact that she'd been heavy drinking, and sounded and acted sober as a judge.
Then she walked up to me and said, "I wanna go home." I said, "In a minute hunny, lemme finish my drink." 
Three minutes later ... I was carrying her out. LoL. She was OUT. 
She's either sober -- or drunk. No in between. Five minute warning.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

trash goes in the trash can.


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## Mr. Yuck (Jul 31, 2017)

If I can't wake them up I take them to the ER. If I can, but they can't walk I help them as far as the couch and lock up behind me.. They always add a decent tip for that in the morning, especially the women.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

NHDriver said:


> I had a black out drunk in my car on Friday night. Passed out 3 minutes into a 14 minute ride. Arrived at his destination, townhouse complex. Tried for almost 15 minutes to wake him and get him out of my back seat. He would not budge just moan a little. Pulled him out of the car and left him laying in his driveway.. Got a ping, left to pick up new pax.
> 
> Has anyone else had this experience? If so, is there any liability to the driver once you end the trip and leave them on their property?
> 
> And yes, I knocked on the door to his residence and rang the doorbell, nobody answered.


Probably 5 cameras filmed you.
If anything had happened, police would have looked.

DRUNK LIVES MATTER !


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick (Oct 2, 2016)

sd1303 said:


> As an Uber driver, you have neither. You are likely to be judged on how reasonable your actions appear to be in the eyes of a jury. Questions like:
> - What was the situation?
> - What options were available to you?
> - Why did you choose the option(s) that you did?
> ...


Don't some states if not all have the reasonable person laws?

_________________________________________________________________
_*Taken from Google:

What is the reasonable person standard?

The "reasonable person" represents how most people within a community would behave in any given situation. The reasonable person standard embodies this behavior and is used to determine whether a defendant has acted negligently.
____________________________________________________________

*_
There are multiple factors which can dictate or determine how this fictitious (Uber driver) reasonable person should act.

My two cents in an ideal situation:
If the passenger was not belligerent or causing trouble.
At least call 9-1-1. Not just for the passenger but for your potential defense in court.
Find a reasonable or safe place to wait for EMS / police.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

NHDriver said:


> All great things to consider and valid points. Thank you for your feedback. What I briefly mentioned that also came into consideration on my part is the following:
> 
> I was a licensed and practicing EMT for 4 years. Before pulling the pax out I checked his breathing, clear passage way, no sign of physical trauma, not wearing any medical bracelet or necklace. Skin color was normal, no indication of a seizure, no indication of stroke or heart distress. No evidence of prescriptive medication. Now that is not to say that couldn't develop after I left but any person that is sober can suffer a stroke or heart attack after leaving your vehicle.
> 
> ...


The thing is, and as an EMT you should know this, passing out from drinking is a symptom of alcohol poisoning. Hopefully, it's a mild case, but it is still alcohol poisoning. In making this determination while you were not actively working as an EMT, you put yourself at a tremendous amount of liability risk. Add to this the fact that you put your hands on a passenger at all. That's a huge no-no with Uber and Lyft and with most of the taxi businesses that I've known. You do not touch passengers other than two, perhaps, shake their hand on the way in or out of the vehicle. That's it.

The proper way to handle an Uber or Lyft Pax that has passed out in your vehicle and will not wake up with loud noise or cold air from the window, is to call nine-one-one. Let the operator that answers send out an officer to handle the situation from there. The person will get medical attention or a ticket for being drunk and disorderly or both, as the officer decides. The key here is that once the police officer shows up, it's no longer in your hands, and you are no longer responsible for the pax's well-being. You are released from any duty of care that may or may not apply otherwise.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Tr4vis Ka1anick said:


> Don't some states if not all have the reasonable person laws?
> 
> .


Reasonable. *snort*
You live in THE most unreasonable city in one of the most unreasonable states in the country; and you re going to count on a jury of your 'peers' to decide what reasonable is?
Reasonable where you live would be that you take them home, and adopt them for a week until they recover from their unfortunate struggle with alcohol. 
Reasonable where I live would be to not run over them with your car as you drive away from their sleeping spot on the sidewalk.


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## george manousaridis (Jan 27, 2017)

NHDriver said:


> I had a black out drunk in my car on Friday night. Passed out 3 minutes into a 14 minute ride. Arrived at his destination, townhouse complex. Tried for almost 15 minutes to wake him and get him out of my back seat. He would not budge just moan a little. Pulled him out of the car and left him laying in his driveway.. Got a ping, left to pick up new pax.
> 
> Has anyone else had this experience? If so, is there any liability to the driver once you end the trip and leave them on their property?
> 
> And yes, I knocked on the door to his residence and rang the doorbell, nobody answered.


top stuff,shouldn't of done that as he could of been run over accidentally bt another vehicle,should of dumped him on a neighbour near front door close to you.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

george manousaridis said:


> top stuff,shouldn't of done that as he could of been run over accidentally bt another vehicle,should of dumped him on a neighbour near front door close to you.


was left in his driveway up close to his garage. good thought though.


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## george manousaridis (Jan 27, 2017)

NHDriver said:


> was left in his driveway up close to his garage. good thought though.


Its cool,just a thought to tell ya,here in australia,In Sydney somewhere a uber run over accidentally a womans husband in the drive way accidentally.The husband was drubk and lying in the driveway,Uber driver pulled in the driveway and bang run him over,the woman was getting out of her designated Uber ,I dont know the full side of what occured,maybe the Uber driver felt a huge jolt when he run over the person or whayt so ever,Just be carefull and take care,i woulnt want to be living with the thought of a mishap like that.But no one ever knows what can happen on the road as accidents do happen.


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## Jaackil (Aug 27, 2016)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> Believe it or not people can die from booze. I remember people going to the ER for stomach pumps in college.
> 
> I think 911 is the way to go right off the bat. You also get the added satisfaction of knowing how hilariously embarrassed that fool would be when the cops are called on him.
> 
> Actually it's not a long shot at all! The cops will wonder how he got there, find out from his friends who say he ubered, now they know you dropped him off and they interview you about his condition.


And you say he was drunk but perfectly fine when I left him he got out on his own. End of story. You didn't serve him you weren't with him all night you had no way of knowing how much he had to drink. You only drove him for 14 minutes. It's not up to us to do feild sobriety tests or breathalyzers.


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## JPthedriver (Jan 25, 2016)

Happened to me once where I had to call an ambulance. The guy was laying there flashing his debit card at me lol. He was plastered. I waited for the ambulance and once they got there he sobered up a bit and they and the cops told me "I did the right thing."


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

Jaackil said:


> And you say he was drunk but perfectly fine when I left him he got out on his own. End of story. You didn't serve him you weren't with him all night you had no way of knowing how much he had to drink. You only drove him for 14 minutes. It's not up to us to do feild sobriety tests or breathalyzers.


That would work well unless there is a witness or video cameras. For example my driveway camera gets a pretty nice picture of 4-5 additional driveways. I really think driving straight to the ER, charging for the extra miles, and their uber ride ending at the ER is probably the beset approach for these reasons:

1) You make more money
2) You get a good laugh out of it
3) Legally sound


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

george manousaridis said:


> The husband was drubk and lying in the driveway,Uber driver pulled in the driveway and bang run him over,the woman was getting out of her designated Uber ,I dont know the full side of what occured,maybe the Uber driver felt a huge jolt when he run over the person or whayt so ever,.


hate when that happens.
gotta pay extra for an 'undercarriage wash' otherwise it starts smelling like roast pork when the cat converter heats up the meat.


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## george manousaridis (Jan 27, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> hate when that happens.
> gotta pay extra for an 'undercarriage wash' otherwise it starts smelling like roast pork when the cat converter heats up the meat.


nah easily removed,i sterilised the whole inside of my vehicle lol,i got special stuff and a good deodiriser machine and more.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

george manousaridis said:


> nah easily removed,i sterilised the whole inside of my vehicle lol,i got special stuff and a good deodiriser machine and more.


no, not INSIDE.
when you run over them, schtuff gets all over the undercarriage. Oil pan, motor mounts, suspension, transmission housing ... the exhaust system is the worse because it starts cooking off.


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## george manousaridis (Jan 27, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> no, not INSIDE.
> when you run over them, schtuff gets all over the undercarriage. Oil pan, motor mounts, suspension, transmission housing ... the exhaust system is the worse because it starts cooking off.


ok,cool


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Brian-drives said:


> Sleeping Drunks are the best passengers ! !
> Somehow there is always an accident on the way home am we have to make a long detour.


Lol



SEAL Team 5 said:


> Research the Long Beach CA case of a wrongful death lawsuit against Uber driver Festus Okoh for the negligent homocide of Uber pax Ryan Anderson. Okoh dropped off a visibly impaired Ryan close to his home. Inebriated Ryan gained entry into a wrong home and was shot dead by the homeowner.
> Even if Okoh is found 0% responsible I'm sure his legal fees will be in the tens of thousands. By the way, Okah ended the ride when he dropped Ryan off and was not covered by Uber's insurance.
> So the answer to your question of you being liable? Yes, you are part of a multi billion dollar company. Every one wants a piece of that pie.


Then suing the driver would be pointless



NHDriver said:


> The driver has no way of knowing where the pax actually lives, only the address on the waybill to drop him off. I just went through the ToS and there is no mention of a driver being responsible for a pax before or after the pax leaves the vehicle.
> 
> I am sure that you all heard and maybe saw the video of the 5 teens in Florida that watch a man drown and made fun of him while he drown and took video of it. Appalling as it may be, legally they were not responsible to aid the drowning victim and did not put the victim in the position. Legal experts looked for ways to charge the teens, but in the end they could not press any charges.


Uber's TOS doesn't determine liability, the courts do.
They charged them with failing to report a death, a civil infraction


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## SadUber (Jun 8, 2017)

I once had a drunk I pass out in the backseat of my car. When I got to his place he was way too big and heavy for me to pull out of the backseat of the car. Since I was paying to quit around that time anyhow, I just drove home and left my car parked outside on the street. When I woke up later on in the morning, he was gone.


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## JasonB (Jan 12, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Research the Long Beach CA case of a wrongful death lawsuit against Uber driver Festus Okoh for the negligent homocide of Uber pax Ryan Anderson. Okoh dropped off a visibly impaired Ryan close to his home. Inebriated Ryan gained entry into a wrong home and was shot dead by the homeowner.
> Even if Okoh is found 0% responsible I'm sure his legal fees will be in the tens of thousands. By the way, Okah ended the ride when he dropped Ryan off and was not covered by Uber's insurance.
> So the answer to your question of you being liable? Yes, you are part of a multi billion dollar company. Every one wants a piece of that pie.


WTF?!

So now we are responsible for pax up to and including the time they
are tucked safely into bed?

Should we also stay with our pax through the night, maybe sing them a
lullaby, just to make sure they wake up feeling OK, and get to work on time?!

Where does personal responsibility enter the equation?

So next time I drop off a pax, should I just stay online while driving
around looking for another ride to make certain that Uber's insurance
will kick in if something bad happens to pax between when they get out
of my car, and when they are sound asleep safely at home?

This is the dumbest sh** I've ever heard...


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

Rat said:


> Lol
> 
> Then suing the driver would be pointless
> 
> ...


Exactly my point! I would have had to report a drunk


JasonB said:


> WTF?!
> 
> So now we are responsible for pax up to, and including the time they
> are tucked safely into bed?
> ...


He was found not liable for what happened as I had predicted.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Mr. Yuck said:


> If I can't wake them up I take them to the ER. If I can, but they can't walk I help them as far as the couch and lock up behind me.. They always add a decent tip for that in the morning, especially the women.


Never go into their house!!


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

Rat said:


> Never go into their house!!


Entering their house changes everything. Leaving them in the driveway is a gray area.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

" PALE BLUE DOT".



Strange Fruit said:


> No lives matter*.
> 
> *I mean, like, 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of all the living things that've been on Earth are dead. So maybe no lives matter


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Mr. Yuck said:


> If I can't wake them up I take them to the ER. If I can, but they can't walk I help them as far as the couch and lock up behind me.. They always add a decent tip for that in the morning, especially the women.


Do you put their clothes back on before you leave?


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

SadUber said:


> I once had a drunk I pass out in the backseat of my car. When I got to his place he was way too big and heavy for me to pull out of the backseat of the car. Since I was paying to quit around that time anyhow, I just drove home and left my car parked outside on the street. When I woke up later on in the morning, he was gone.


I did something similar.
I was sound asleep one nite when my step son knocked on my bedroom door in the wee hours and said, "Hey. There's an owl in your office."
Now I was sound asleep. In fact, when I opened my eyes a minute later I thought "Did I dream that?" I looked at the door, and nobody was there. I had to lay there a minute and think about it. Decided to get up.
Went out into the living room, and step son number 2 was standing there ... and he said it again. "There's an owl in your office." Not a line I have heard before. 
WTF
Turned on the lights in my office and .. yea, sitting on top of the printer was an owl. I'm sure it was blind with all the light but it seemed to look right at me. Step 2 says, 'How we gunna get it out of here? Wanna get the fishnet out of the boat?' 
In my mind (now, remember, I'm not awake yet) I got a mental picture of broken wings, fingers bit off, open wounds from claw marks ... it was a bloody mental picture.
I said, "No. Hell no. It got in thru that open window, it will get out the same way."
I turned off the lights, went back to bed.
In the morning -- it was gone.

Whats that got to do with Uber?
Not a ****ing thing. That's what.
I just wanted to tell you all that story.

Oh. Wait. I got it.
Pax's are like owls. Just leave them alone and they'll fly away.
Yea, that's the take-away.
Great bumper sticker too: "Pax's are like owls. Leave them alone and they'll fly away."
Yea, THAT'S the ticket.

Man, that last bong hit was DA BOMB.


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## JasonB (Jan 12, 2016)

Rat said:


> Do you put their clothes back on before you leave?


Yes. Maybe give pax a sponge bath while your at it, and a warm
bottle of milk before tucking them in...


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Rat said:


> Then suing the driver would be pointless


Actually not. The driver is named in a multi defendant lawsuit and will either give a deposition or testimony of the occurrences. A good trial attorney could enable the driver to give damaging statements about the other defendants such as asking;

Q) What policies does Uber have in place for the handling of an obviously intoxicated person?
A) None

Q) What training has Uber provided to you for handling such situations?
A) None

Q) Has Uber provided you with any training for alcohol awareness?
A) No

Q) Has Uber ever required or even encouraged you to enroll in any public safety class for dealing with an intoxicated person?
A) No

Q) So actually what has Uber required from you to ensure public safety?
A) Not a damn thing

My Judgement is for the plaintiff in the amount of $33 million.

The driver could very well be the best witness for the plaintiff.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

So from the defendant's perspective they would claim, none of that is required by TLC or any governing agency relative to the transportation industry. We leave it up to the discretion of the driver who is an independent contractor and not an employee of Uber. Uber driver - we are contracted to transport the passenger from the pick up point to the final destination that is determined by the rider. Drivers are not trained and are not required to be trained in any of the above in order to perform the contracted services. There is no way an untrained medical professional can accurately asses the health and well being of a passenger (in my case my previous EMT license would come into question, so not so good for me, but generally speaking). The passenger entered the vehicle under his own accord but did need some assistance exiting the vehicle. Once the passenger had exited the vehicle the driver left the property to respond to another ride request. The medical condition of the passenger was unknown at the time but there we definite signs of intoxication.


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## Jaackil (Aug 27, 2016)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> That would work well unless there is a witness or video cameras. For example my driveway camera gets a pretty nice picture of 4-5 additional driveways. I really think driving straight to the ER, charging for the extra miles, and their uber ride ending at the ER is probably the beset approach for these reasons:
> 
> 1) You make more money
> 2) You get a good laugh out of it
> 3) Legally sound


Oh that is legally sound? You learned that at what law school? So if it is legally sound what exactly is the legal liability of the driver? So you brought it up. I drop you off in your driveway you are stone cold drunk and I leave you. You choke on your own vomit and die. This is all captured on your driveway camera. What exactly am I being charged with? What exactly did they teach you in law school is the charge? Manslaughter? Nope . Involuntary Manslaughter? Nope . Murder? Nope So what exactly are the charges?


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

Jaackil said:


> Oh that is legally sound? You learned that at what law school? So if it is legally sound what exactly is the legal liability of the driver? So you brought it up. I drop you off in your driveway you are stone cold drunk and I leave you. You choke on your own vomit and die. This is all captured on your driveway camera. What exactly am I being charged with? What exactly did they teach you in law school is the charge? Manslaughter? Nope . Involuntary Manslaughter? Nope . Murder? Nope So what exactly are the charges?


Easy, killer. This thread is packed with conjecture and I don't see many court cases referenced setting legal precedent. Do whatever you like. Some states mandate reasonable care for passengers. Dropping somebody who is unconscious onto their lawn is not reasonable. Enjoy your time in court if you don't exercise due diligence.


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## Jaackil (Aug 27, 2016)

ShinyAndChrome said:


> Easy, killer. This thread is packed with conjecture and I don't see many court cases referenced setting legal precedent. Do whatever you like. Some states mandate reasonable care for passengers. Dropping somebody who is unconscious onto their lawn is not reasonable. Enjoy your time in court if you don't exercise due diligence.


So Perry Mason what would the charge be?
How does a driver with no medical training determine the difference between unconscious and a deep sleep? There are no court cases setting legal precedence because it does not happen? The case of the a holes who watched a guy drowned is a perfect example. There is zero expectation that someone needs to lend assistance. Additionally that was when someone was in actually need of immediate assistance. Just because someone is passed out drunk there is no reason to believe that they will need medical assistance. You are not expected to predict that. That would be unreasonable. So even in states that require as you say reasonable care of the passengers what would be the charge? What is unreasonable about taking them to their destination and dropping them off? Are we required to ensure the passengers safety even after they are out of our vehicles. At what point do you draw the line? Would we be obligated to take anyone who is drunk to the ER? Just because someone is not passed out how do we determine when someone has had too much to drink? Applying your logic the only safe practice for drivers would be to drive every single passenger we pick up at a bar directly to the ER. You people can't just make up laws that don't exsist. 
So I will ask again to all the legal experts that have said the driver has legal liability if they don't call the police or drive the pax to the closest hospital what would be the charge? Negligent Homicide? Nope . Please tell us what statute or law it would fall under. What actually legal obligation does the driver have in this case beyond dropping them off at their destination?


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## Uber Steve LV (Sep 28, 2015)

If they are totally passed out, end trip, give yourself 5 stars and a nice tip. Do a brake check, claim there was a kitty that just ran out.


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## darkshy77 (Sep 28, 2015)

NHDriver said:


> I had a black out drunk in my car on Friday night. Passed out 3 minutes into a 14 minute ride. Arrived at his destination, townhouse complex. Tried for almost 15 minutes to wake him and get him out of my back seat. He would not budge just moan a little. Pulled him out of the car and left him laying in his driveway.. Got a ping, left to pick up new pax.
> 
> Has anyone else had this experience? If so, is there any liability to the driver once you end the trip and leave them on their property?
> 
> And yes, I knocked on the door to his residence and rang the doorbell, nobody answered.


Look area no one watching kicks his ass Rob him dump him in the yard.... Officer he got out just find when I pull anyway he was sitting in the grass.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

Tr4vis Ka1anick said:


> Don't some states if not all have the reasonable person laws?
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> _*Taken from Google:
> ...


Yes, I tried to list a few of those factors in my post. There are a few people who have additional protections from negligence suits (police, firefighters, etc.). Uber drivers are not one of them. Call 9-1-1 if there is an unconsious person in your car.



SadUber said:


> I once had a drunk I pass out in the backseat of my car. When I got to his place he was way too big and heavy for me to pull out of the backseat of the car. Since I was paying to quit around that time anyhow, I just drove home and left my car parked outside on the street. When I woke up later on in the morning, he was gone.


LOL. Not sure I believe you, but it's a funny story. I would not leave an unconsious drunk stranger unattended in my car.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

Jaackil said:


> So Perry Mason what would the charge be?
> How does a driver with no medical training determine the difference between unconscious and a deep sleep? There are no court cases setting legal precedence because it does not happen? The case of the a holes who watched a guy drowned is a perfect example. There is zero expectation that someone needs to lend assistance. Additionally that was when someone was in actually need of immediate assistance. Just because someone is passed out drunk there is no reason to believe that they will need medical assistance. You are not expected to predict that. That would be unreasonable. So even in states that require as you say reasonable care of the passengers what would be the charge? What is unreasonable about taking them to their destination and dropping them off? Are we required to ensure the passengers safety even after they are out of our vehicles. At what point do you draw the line? Would we be obligated to take anyone who is drunk to the ER? Just because someone is not passed out how do we determine when someone has had too much to drink? Applying your logic the only safe practice for drivers would be to drive every single passenger we pick up at a bar directly to the ER. You people can't just make up laws that don't exsist.
> So I will ask again to all the legal experts that have said the driver has legal liability if they don't call the police or drive the pax to the closest hospital what would be the charge? Negligent Homicide? Nope . Please tell us what statute or law it would fall under. What actually legal obligation does the driver have in this case beyond dropping them off at their destination?


but this, but that. Pull a guy out of your vehicle who is unconscious and leave him on his driveway and if he is so poisoned by booze he never wakes up again I wish you the best of luck in your wrongful death suit. I'm sorry if you think the bystanders watching the drowning man is a "perfect example" even though it is clearly a terrible one:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.so...com/amp/2015/10/14/taxi-accidents-in-florida/


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

Jaackil said:


> How does a driver with no medical training determine the difference between unconscious and a deep sleep?


They don't. Passed out in the back of an Uber is not a normal situation. Call 9-1-1.



> There are no court cases setting legal precedence because it does not happen? The case of the a holes who watched a guy drowned is a perfect example. There is zero expectation that someone needs to lend assistance.


For an uninvolved bystander who does NOTHING, you'd likely be correct.

For a contracted Uber driver that drags an unconsious person out of a car, less so.



> Additionally that was when someone was in actually need of immediate assistance. Just because someone is passed out drunk there is no reason to believe that they will need medical assistance. You are not expected to predict that. That would be unreasonable.


A jury might feel otherwise. Removing an unconsious person from your car and placing them on the ground outdoors in a public place has some foreseeable dangers.



> So even in states that require as you say reasonable care of the passengers what would be the charge?


Negligence on the civil side. Battery on the criminal side.



> What is unreasonable about taking them to their destination and dropping them off?


Dragging around unconsious drunk people is beyond the scope of what you were hired to do.



> Are we required to ensure the passengers safety even after they are out of our vehicles. At what point do you draw the line?


If they leave under their own power, then no. If you drag them somewhere while they're unconsious, then yes.



> Would we be obligated to take anyone who is drunk to the ER? Just because someone is not passed out how do we determine when someone has had too much to drink? Applying your logic the only safe practice for drivers would be to drive every single passenger we pick up at a bar directly to the ER.


No, only the unconsious ones who become unable to leave your car under their own power.



> You people can't just make up laws that don't exsist.
> So I will ask again to all the legal experts that have said the driver has legal liability if they don't call the police or drive the pax to the closest hospital what would be the charge? Negligent Homicide? Nope . Please tell us what statute or law it would fall under.


California Civil Code 1714, and any othe laws that have an element of negligence.
California Penal Code 242, battery.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

battery implies aggression or threat not assistance.


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

Sd1303 just carpet bombed the thread with truth bombs.

It isn't like this was hard to google. Common carriers are held to a higher standard and must exercise "reasonable" care/diligence. If you think a jury would consider it reasonable to leave a passed out drunk on his lawn and he ends up dead by morning, by all means go for it!


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

NHDriver said:


> battery implies aggression or threat not assistance.


Battery is simply the unlawful/non-consensual touching of another person. Here are the California jury instructions for battery:
https://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/calcrim/800/960.html

These are based on the statute itself along with the related case law.

Performing first aid or CPR on an unconsious person probably falls within Good Samaritan protections against battery. Dragging them out of a car and abandoning them on a sidewalk, probably not.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

It's all subject to interpretation, But at this point it's all irrelevant, It has been 6 days. No reports and no low star rating. He didn't die and most likely remembers very little. In the end, he got home safe and i didn't miss the next ride. Win/Win... Uber On!!!


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

NHDriver said:


> It's all subject to interpretation, But at this point it's all irrelevant, It has been 6 days. No reports and no low star rating. He didn't die and most likely remembers very little. In the end, he got home safe and i didn't miss the next ride. Win/Win... Uber On!!!


So why get an amatuer's night debate about negligence if you don't care what the risks are/were?

These are common sense things that are not hard... and they may save you some grief if things go bad. If you're top priority is getting to the next fare, then yes, good luck and Uber on!


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## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

NHDriver said:


> It's all subject to interpretation, But at this point it's all irrelevant, It has been 6 days. No reports and no low star rating. He didn't die and most likely remembers very little. In the end, he got home safe and i didn't miss the next ride. Win/Win... Uber On!!!


not irrelevant, as it will likely happen to other drivers in the future.


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## corniilius (Jan 27, 2017)

Once they enter your vehicle. You become liable, in part. Better to employ the u-turn method to see what you are dealing with before allowing them in you vehicle. I'd rather take an unpaid cancellation than take the risk with somebody who's inebriated.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

I have a number of female and male pax pass out in my car. First time I could not get them to wake up and exit on their own.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

NHDriver said:


> I have a number of female and male pax pass out in my car. First time I could not get them to wake up and exit on their own.


I agree, not common. It's the low frequency, high risk stuff that gets people in trouble though.

That's why these boards are a good resource. You get to talk through the 'what ifs' and plan for how to deal with difficult problems.

Not sure it's been mentioned in this thread, but a good preventative measure is to never agree to take a solo drunk person who needs assistance getting into your car. A friend (who can walk) needs to come along.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

NHDriver said:


> I had a black out drunk in my car on Friday night. Passed out 3 minutes into a 14 minute ride. Arrived at his destination, townhouse complex. Tried for almost 15 minutes to wake him and get him out of my back seat. He would not budge just moan a little. Pulled him out of the car and left him laying in his driveway.. Got a ping, left to pick up new pax.
> 
> Has anyone else had this experience? If so, is there any liability to the driver once you end the trip and leave them on their property?
> 
> And yes, I knocked on the door to his residence and rang the doorbell, nobody answered.


Some people do not know when to stop drinking so I have no pitty.

Did you empty his wallet and take his watch as your fee for human removal from vehicle?


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

Mole said:


> Some people do not know when to stop drinking so I have no pitty.
> 
> Did you empty his wallet and take his watch as your fee for human removal from vehicle?


Same. No pity. Just trying to avoid somebody else's poor decisions from turning into my legal problem.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

So a few more things to consider. Many people on here gave advice to do this or do that.... all great feedback with some valid points. Having been an EMT for 4 years, let me give you some other things to consider. I was holding back to see what type of responses I would get as it is a great discussion topic, it could happen to any of us.

As an EMT I have arrived on scenes where good people were trying to help and were sued for the cause of the victim's/patient's condition deteriorating. Fact! When you dispatch EMS there is a bill for payment surely to follow. If they drunk did not consent and was conscious when the EMS arrived, guess who pays the bill? Not the drunk, whoever called for the service if the drunk did not use the service, FACT! If you transport someone to the ER without their consent and they incur a medical charge, guess who gets sued for the charges because there was no consent? Not the drunk he is suing you. Fact! As an EMT i was NOT, repeat NOT permitted to treat or transport a patient/victim without consent unless the injuries or symptoms were CLEARLY life threatening upon an initial examination at the scene, Very black and White, no GREY. If they were unconscious we needed consent from a family member unless the MD handling the call at the hospital via dispatch authorized the transport deeming the condition could deteriorate further endangering the victim/patient. Be careful how involved you get. Your intentions may be sincere but the end result of trying to help can often times have a negative impact on you financially and your family, Fact! The right answer is call the police and let them make all the decisions. Worst thing that happens to you is you are in a police report unless the police do something stupid and now did you aid in that stupidity or witness it. I assessed the drunk, left him in his driveway feeling comfortable he would be fine (could have, yes, could have been wrong and that's on me) and chose to avoid police, EMS, law suites, etc.

Just think, don't rush to help or scurry of to an ER unless it is actually to save a life, then please don't hesitate.



Mole said:


> Some people do not know when to stop drinking so I have no pitty.
> 
> Did you empty his wallet and take his watch as your fee for human removal from vehicle?


Nope just checked for medical bracelet or necklace and prescriptions.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

NHDriver said:


> So one more thing to consider. Many people on here gave advice to do this or do that.... all great feedback with some valid points. Having been an EMT for 4 years, let me give you some other things to consider. I was holding back to see what type of responses I would get as it is a great discussion topic, it could happen to any of us.
> 
> As an EMT I have arrived on scenes where good people were trying to help and were sued for the cause of the victim's/patient's condition deteriorating. Fact! When you dispatch EMS there is a bill for payment surely to follow. If they drunk did not consent and was conscious when the EMS arrived, guess who pays the bill? Not the drunk, whoever called for the service if the drunk did not use the service, FACT! If you transport someone to the ER without their consent and they incur a medical charge, guess who gets sued for the charges because there was no consent? Not the drunk he is suing you. Fact! As an EMT i was NOT, repeat NOT permitted to treat or transport a patient/victim unless the injuries or symptoms were CLEARLY life threatening upon an initial examination at the scene, Very black and White, no GREY. If they were unconscious we needed consent from a family member unless the MD handling the call at the hospital via dispatch authorized the transport deeming the condition could deteriorate further endangering the victim/patient. Be careful how involved you get. Your intentions may be sincere but the end result of trying to help can often times have a negative impact on you financially and your family, Fact! The right answer is call the police and let them make all the decisions. Worst thing that happens to you is you are in a police report unless the police do something stupid and now did you aid in that stupidity or witness it. I assessed the drunk, left him in his driveway feeling comfortable he would be fine (could have, yes, could have been wrong and that's on me) and chose to avoid police, EMS, law suites, etc.
> 
> Just think, don't rush to help unless it is actually to save a life, then please don't hesitate.


Your risk picture may be slightly different if you are licensed/trained. Not sure. Still seems like unnecessary risk for minimal gain.

I'm interested in your point regarding a 9-1-1 caller being sued for the cost of an ambulance. Do you have some details on that one? I'd think there'd be significant media attention/ outrage if someone in good faith requested an ambulance for someone who appeared to need one... and then got sued. In our area, dry runs are paid for by the taxpayers.

If it is something that concerns you, then maybe just tell the 9-1-1 dispatcher that you need 'help' with a person who is passed out in your car. They will apply their procedures on what to send.

Good point regarding EMTs not being immune from liability. Uber drivers may be in a less protected situation than EMTs. Aside from Uber drivers not having the backing of company/agency lawyers, there is often some qualified immunity that goes along with being in a professional rescuer occupation. There is also a difference between 'treating' someone and 'removing' someone.

I'd rather be a witness on a police report than a defendant in a lawsuit.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

You do not hear about it often because EMTs are trained to get consent to treat upon arrival. I would say hi my name is xxx and I am here to help you. Is it ok if I take a look at you? Reply is yes that is consent and always 2 EMts to an ambulance so a witness. Upon examinination we ask. We should probably get you to a hospital to be treated. Is xxxx ER ok with you? They say yes and we have consent.

I have responded to a call the injured person refused to be treated or transported. Ambulatory company bills the person who refuses to pay for not calling for the service and sues the person who called after being told they don't want or need an ambulance.

If the police call, not an individual, there is a prenegotiated fee in place that the PD pays out of their budget and same for city/town schools and FD. That's why you let the police call. Ambulatory Services is a for profit business. Someone has to pay the bill and they always get paid. They also get sued lol.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

NHDriver said:


> You do not hear about it often because EMTs are trained to get consent to treat upon arrival. I would say hi my name is xxx and I am here to help you. Is it ok if I take a look at you? Reply is yes that is consent and always 2 EMts to an ambulance so a witness. Upon examinination we ask. We should probably get you to a hospital to be treated. Is xxxx ER ok with you? They say yes and we have consent.
> 
> I have responded to a call the injured person refused to be treated or transported. Ambulatory company bills the person who refuses to pay for not calling for the service and sues the person who called after being told they don't want or need an ambulance.
> 
> If the police call, not an individual, there is a prenegotiated fee in place that the PD pays out of their budget and same for city/town schools and FD. That's why you let the police call. Ambulatory Services is a for profit business. Some had to pay the bill and they always get paid. They also get sued lol.


Out here, there is a County EMS Authority who contracts with a private ambulance provider to staff county-owned ambulances. The remuneration for dry runs is part of the contract between the County and ambulance company.

Point is, as an Uber driver, you are kind of on your own, and you don't have much in the way of backing if you get sued.

Make the liability somoneone else's. If you aren't being paid to make EMT decisions, then why do it (absent a life threatening situation)? Call 9-1-1 and let the police officers deal with it. If they want to leave the guy on the lawn, then it's their issue not yours.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

sd1303 said:


> Out here, there is a County EMS Authority who contracts with a private ambulance provider to staff county-owned ambulances. The remuneration for dry runs is part of the contract between the County and ambulance company.
> 
> Point is, as an Uber driver, you are kind of on your own, and you don't have much in the way of backing if you get sued.
> 
> Make the liability somoneone else's. If you aren't being paid to make EMT decisions, then why do it (absent a life threatening situation)? Call 9-1-1 and let the police officers deal with it. If they want to leave the guy on the lawn, then it's their issue not yours.


You are correct!!! If you dial 911 they always send the PD first and let the PD decide. We are not healthcare providers, babysitters, social workers, best friends or family. We are drivers, that is the extent of our responsibility, period.

This was a good topic and a great thread and I personally hope none of you end up having to make that decision. I do suggest getting smelling salts and keep them in your trunk. I have some but I just switched out my first aid kit and didn't put them in the new kit. I would have used them had I had them and most likely the pax would have responded accordingly.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Is driving to the closest bridge & tossing them over a valid response?


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

dirtylee said:


> Is driving to the closest bridge & tossing them over a valid response?


Only if you're 12.


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## The Ghost of Travis (Jul 26, 2017)

I had a PAX last night who was so drunk he did not know where he lived and a belligerent friend with him who was not cooperating, so I went to the police station, they refused to exit the car and I found a cop outside and after he got them out of my car I went bye-bye.


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## CanadianUberMan (Jul 23, 2017)

NHDriver said:


> I had a black out drunk in my car on Friday night. Passed out 3 minutes into a 14 minute ride. Arrived at his destination, townhouse complex. Tried for almost 15 minutes to wake him and get him out of my back seat. He would not budge just moan a little. Pulled him out of the car and left him laying in his driveway.. Got a ping, left to pick up new pax.
> 
> Has anyone else had this experience? If so, is there any liability to the driver once you end the trip and leave them on their property?
> 
> And yes, I knocked on the door to his residence and rang the doorbell, nobody answered.


What you should do is call your local police department and let them know. It shouldn't take long to get through to them and let them know where the person is. This way should anything happens the responsibility does lean on you anymore. And chances are your next pax is drunk and won't realize two or three minutes extra and if they do who cares, safety first!


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

CanadianUberMan said:


> What you should do is call your local police department and let them know. It shouldn't take long to get through to them and let them know where the person is. This way should anything happens the responsibility does lean on you anymore. And chances are your next pax is drunk and won't realize two or three minutes extra and if they do who cares, safety first!


Maybe where YOU live it won't take cops long to get to you, but where I live -- if its not life threatening (or if you don't make it sound life threatening) they won't show for an hour or more.

"I have a drunk in my car that won't get out." 
vs.
"I have a person passed out in my car and I'm concerned that he isn't breathing well."

"I have an angry and belligerent person in my car."
vs.
"I am concerned that he may have a gun."

One is no response ... one is immediate response.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> Maybe where YOU live it won't take cops long to get to you, but where I live -- if its not life threatening (or if you don't make it sound life threatening) they won't show for an hour or more.
> 
> "I have a drunk in my car that won't get out."
> vs.
> ...





UberBastid said:


> Maybe where YOU live it won't take cops long to get to you, but where I live -- if its not life threatening (or if you don't make it sound life threatening) they won't show for an hour or more.
> 
> "I have a drunk in my car that won't get out."
> vs.
> ...


Departments who can't (or don't want to) respond to calls quickly are used to embellished reports, and are adept at sorting them out.

If you are reaching for PD to help you, probably don't want to start out by lying. At best they'll come out, determine that the report of the gun is unfounded and decide that the drunk/argument is your problem, not theirs.


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## Notjust A. Nutherant (Jun 10, 2017)

NHDriver said:


> You are correct!!! If you dial 911 they always send the PD first and let the PD decide. We are not healthcare providers, babysitters, social workers, best friends or family. We are drivers, that is the extent of our responsibility, period.
> 
> This was a good topic and a great thread and I personally hope none of you end up having to make that decision. I do suggest getting smelling salts and keep them in your trunk. I have some but I just switched out my first aid kit and didn't put them in the new kit. I would have used them had I had them and most likely the pax would have responded accordingly.


It's so interesting seeing the different protocols for different jurisdictions. Here in Cali.....at least in certain parts of the Bay, an incoming call regarding a passed out person/drunk WILL NOT get a PD response.......the police will not initially respond to this type of call but we will send medical to assist/assess the situation, and if PD is needed, so be it.

"Who" ends up responding to this type call is apparently dependent upon your locale.



sd1303 said:


> Departments who can't (or don't want to) respond to calls quickly are used to embellished reports, and are adept at sorting them out.
> 
> If you are reaching for PD to help you, probably don't want to start out by lying. At best they'll come out, determine that the report of the gun is unfounded and decide that the drunk/argument is your problem, not theirs.


I agree with this 100%


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## ratethis (Jan 7, 2017)

Just said this in another forum in here....
Call 911, alcohol poisoning, ? Let professionals handle it... sell story to supermarket rag papers,utube, make sure to record the "situation", make some money donate 1/2 to local rescue depts... people learn by example. Just a thought...


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## Mr. Yuck (Jul 31, 2017)

Rat said:


> Do you put their clothes back on before you leave?


A rape joke with two likes.


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## flyntflossy10 (Jun 2, 2017)

if you have to call the police or take them to the ER, what happens with the Uber driver? Do we just talk to the police, tell them our story, and be on our way?


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

flyntflossy10 said:


> if you have to call the police or take them to the ER, what happens with the Uber driver? Do we just talk to the police, tell them our story, and be on our way?


Yes. The passenger either gets woken up and sent on their way, placed in the care of a friend/relative, arrested for drunk in public, or loaded in an ambulance. Driver tells their story and watches.

This process will not be fast. Plan on losing an hour or more of time.

This is the reason to insist that a sober(er) friend come along with an incapacitated drunk. They can take custody of the passed out passenger.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

flyntflossy10 said:


> if you have to call the police or take them to the ER, what happens with the Uber driver? Do we just talk to the police, tell them our story, and be on our way?


I feel that it is MY job to see to the safety of the pax while they're in my custody.
Once I pulled up to ER, and they put him in a wheelchair he is NOT in my custody any more.
I didn't leave my name or anything, I went back to work.
Not my problem any more.


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## Ezridax (Aug 3, 2017)

UberBastid said:


> Had that happen to me once.
> Wasn't far from a hospital, so I took him to ER and told the admitting clerk that I "have a guy in my car that's having trouble breathing." They took him out RFN. Gotta use the right terminology though. Not, "they guy is passed out drunk", but, "having trouble breathing."
> She asked me to come in for paperwork, I said, "sure, as soon as I park" then got back on the road.
> Easy peasy.
> ...


If you use the words unresponsive, that should get them helping too.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> I feel that it is MY job to see to the safety of the pax while they're in my custody.
> Once I pulled up to ER, and they put him in a wheelchair he is NOT in my custody any more.
> I didn't leave my name or anything, I went back to work.
> Not my problem any more.


... and until the pax makes it out of your car, they have not become PD/ER's problem yet. Even if they are duty bound to help, they don't have to work briskly.

A modicum of cooperation is a wise choice when asking others to assist you with a problem.


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## Ezridax (Aug 3, 2017)

Nick781 said:


> Never do that ever again.
> 
> Yell there name loudly get them to wake up if they don't especially that long call 911 for help...


Do a sternal rub. If that doesn't wake them up, call 911.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

UberBastid said:


> I did something similar.
> I was sound asleep one nite when my step son knocked on my bedroom door in the wee hours and said, "Hey. There's an owl in your office."
> Now I was sound asleep. In fact, when I opened my eyes a minute later I thought "Did I dream that?" I looked at the door, and nobody was there. I had to lay there a minute and think about it. Decided to get up.
> Went out into the living room, and step son number 2 was standing there ... and he said it again. "There's an owl in your office." Not a line I have heard before.
> ...


Ever see Owl Crap ?
Almost as bad as snake crap.
Bones fur black ooze.
Not good for printers.

At least owls dont drown due to puke asphyxia in your back seat.

And if they do? Throw them in the trash.

A 180 pound man in rigor mortis in your back seat may be more difficult to remove.
If he dies clenching the seat belt, you may have to break fingers to get him to release.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

Ezridax said:


> Do a sternal rub. If that doesn't wake them up, call 911.


Not recommended... especially for a male driver/female pax. Let someone in a blue uniform do that.


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> Reasonable. *snort*
> You live in THE most unreasonable city in one of the most unreasonable states in the country; and you re going to count on a jury of your 'peers' to decide what reasonable is?
> Reasonable where you live would be that you take them home, and adopt them for a week until they recover from their unfortunate struggle with alcohol.
> Reasonable where I live would be to not run over them with your car as you drive away from their sleeping spot on the sidewalk.


I want to live in a nice place with people this kind. I live in SF. It's pretty cold here. Not the temperature, which is unusually warm, probably cuz of the climate hoax. Gd those liberals sure are convincing with their hoax. How do they do it? It's seriously getting unusually hot lately. They must've brainwashed me. And the thermometers too.


UberBastid said:


> hate when that happens.
> gotta pay extra for an 'undercarriage wash' otherwise it starts smelling like roast pork when the cat converter heats up the meat.


u convert cat to pork, or the other way around?


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

NHDriver said:


> I dropped him off officer, he got out of the car and I left officer.


But we have witnesses who are willing to testify that you dragged the victim from the car and they took video footing with their phone.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Strange Fruit said:


> I want to live in a nice place with people this kind. I live in SF. It's pretty cold here. Not the temperature, which is unusually warm, probably cuz of the climate hoax. Gd those liberals sure are convincing with their hoax. How do they do it? It's seriously getting unusually hot lately. QUOTE]
> 
> ...


Yea, the climate IS changing. No doubt, been proven.
But, its not humans that are causing it. Climates been changing for, oh, I dunno, A COUPLE OF MILLION YEARS?


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> Yea, the climate IS changing. No doubt, been proven.
> But, its not humans that are causing it. Climates been changing for, oh, I dunno, A COUPLE OF MILLION YEARS?


Wtf. Get yr messaging right. It's a hoax. Don't switch it up. Double down. It was a hoax ten years ago when Dr Limbaugh said it was, and it still is. I heard Trump say it is. & that it's the Chinese. And he is really smart and knows stuff. And the climate has been changing for 4 billion years if ur trying to be cute. That's not what all the scientists in on the hoax are talking about. They're talking about the rise in global temperature over the last few decades, and they have faked satellite photos of the polar region up north, showing ever dwindling ice caps. They aren't talking about the French proverb "the only thing that is constant is change".

The good news is, with the hoax's ability to make it warm at night in SF, our ditched in the driveway drunks will not freeze to death


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Naw, come on. It's not a hoax. It's just our point of view. Humans have a tough time believing that anything happened before we were here, and we haven't been here very long. Humans also think that they have more effect that we really do, we overestimate our power over mother nature. 
The climate IS changing. And we will adapt and change with it. There will be more CO2 in the air (I add that to my grow room so the 'fruit' is bigger and heavier, it is good for plants) so food production will go up and there will be fewer hungry people on the planet. 
Don't worry. Everything is going to be ok.


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## Brett090 (Jun 5, 2017)

Just say he walked out and you drove away. Lol how are they gonna know if he passed out when he was with you


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

Brett090 said:


> Just say he walked out and you drove away. Lol how are they gonna know if he passed out when he was with you


Better hope nobody was peeking out their windows or has a security camera.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

sd1303 said:


> I agree, not common. It's the low frequency, high risk stuff that gets people in trouble though.
> 
> That's why these boards are a good resource. You get to talk through the 'what ifs' and plan for how to deal with difficult problems.
> 
> Not sure it's been mentioned in this thread, but a good preventative measure is to never agree to take a solo drunk person who needs assistance getting into your car. A friend (who can walk) needs to come along.


I typically avoid the really drunk times as well as certain areas of town where they are likely to be in the first place. The one time I did decide to "go for it" for shits and giggles was during a rodeo, drove to the back of the grounds down a long dark street to see two cowboys propping each other up walking toward me. Always leave my door locked before I assess every rider for... appropriateness, I rolled down my window and said "He's not going to puke on me, is he?" and the most sober of the two said, "Naw, he did his business over there" and I said he could get in if most sober came along for the ride. I handed most sober the professional grade barf bag I carry and as he started to give it to really drunk guy, I said "oh, no you don't, you make sure he uses it" and use it really drunk did. I also made them take the bag with them when they got out, as he was going to leave it in my car. NO TIP and those bags cost .50...



sd1303 said:


> Yes. The passenger either gets woken up and sent on their way, placed in the care of a friend/relative, arrested for drunk in public, or loaded in an ambulance. Driver tells their story and watches.
> 
> This process will not be fast. Plan on losing an hour or more of time.
> 
> This is the reason to insist that a sober(er) friend come along with an incapacitated drunk. They can take custody of the passed out passenger.


Precisely! There was a situation once where a woman was so drunk, she was passed out lying on the sidewalk outside a bar. General consensus was, cancel and drive off, but there were those who bleated "you can't leave a lone girl like that!" No, but you can call PD to assess her, plus lone girl needs to rethink her friends who didn't stick around. There is NO WAY I'd pick up someone like that, if not for the puke factor.


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## NHDriver (Aug 6, 2017)

sd1303 said:


> Not recommended... especially for a male driver/female pax. Let someone in a blue uniform do that.


at least turn off your dash cam before you do that with a female. claim it lost power when you turned your vehicle off so pax would not inhale fumes with door open in back seat.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

UberBastid said:


> Yea, the climate IS changing. No doubt, been proven.
> But, its not humans that are causing it. Climates been changing for, oh, I dunno, A COUPLE OF MILLION YEARS?


Yup! We're only along for the ride, though I do believe man-made pollution does harm us and we're dealing with it well. Not China, however, who produces a lot.


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