# Suncor is building a fleet of 150 driverless trucks that will cut 400 jobs over the next six years



## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

https://business.financialpost.com/...onomous-haul-trucks-job-cuts-expected-by-2019


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Single Malt said:


> https://business.financialpost.com/...onomous-haul-trucks-job-cuts-expected-by-2019


No they won't even cut one job. Anyone in the industry knows why commercial trucking will be the last the go SDC if the era ever comes.

Accountability and reliability, a company isn't paying a driver to just drive. A company is many times entrusting a million dollars of product and property to be securely and safely delivered by an individual.

Trucking accidents with normal cars are usually fatal also, the insurance liability will be astronomical in a truck. There is no one a trucking company can redirect so blame on.

For example look at that Tracy Morgan accident. Everyone crucified the driver but the truth is companies put a lot of pressure on drivers to go longer and harder to make a profit.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

lol pure comedy....can't wait to see one of these with no driver in it


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

Both @uberdriverfornow & @TheDevilisaParttimer lack SDC & Technology credentials, are unobjective and too emotional to assume any credibility to a response

Similar to asking a far left voter if trump has a chance at reelection


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Single Malt said:


> https://business.financialpost.com/...onomous-haul-trucks-job-cuts-expected-by-2019


How are they cutting jobs? Seems like they created jobs. Takes a few employees to create 150 trucks and maintain them.


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

Ssgcraig said:


> How are they cutting jobs? Seems like they created jobs. Takes a few employees to create 150 trucks and maintain them.


They're eliminating low skilled workers.✅


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

RabbleRouser said:


> Both @uberdriverfornow & @TheDevilisaParttimer lack SDC & Technology credentials, are unobjective and too emotional to assume any credibility to a response
> 
> Similar to asking a far left voter if trump has a chance at reelection


I'm a tech geek that's been following SDCs since high school, 10-11 years.

I was following SDCs back when google was studying nats behavior and how they move rapidly in close quarters but do not collide.

My problems isn't SDCs, Uber could die today and my lifestyle wouldn't change.

My problem is business entities misrepresenting when, what, and where in regards to SDCs.

It isn't legitimate technology discussions. Instead they are using the promise of hope to cheat people out of their hard earned money.

It is propaganda plan and simple.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lol pure comedy....can't wait to see one of these with no driver in it


This news article is over four months old, but the technology has been used on mine sites for quite some time.

Rio Tinto and to a lesser degree BHP, have been using these trucks in the massive Pilbara iron ore mines in Western Australia for quite some time.

I think you will find that the trucks are not fully autonomous, but 'driven' from a control centre. In Rio Tinto's case, from Perth 1500 kms away.

From the article:

"_On Tuesday, Melbourne-based Rio Tinto announced its autonomous haul trucks had achieved the milestone of having moved a total of one billion tonnes of material without being involved in any injury accidents. In December, it announced it would expand its fleet of about 80 trucks to 140 by the end of 2019."

"Rio Tinto's trucks are controlled remotely from its operations centre in Perth, about 1,500 kilometres from the mines, but Little said Suncor is initially going to operate the trucks from control rooms at each mine site."

._


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> I'm a tech geek that's been following SDCs since high school, 10-11 years.
> 
> I was following SDCs back when google was studying nats behavior and how they move rapidly in close quarters but do not collide.
> 
> ...


Right !!! Propaganda OR......a river in Egypt ??.... Dee-Nile

https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-... NL 060619 (1)&utm_medium=email&utm_source=nl
https://gizmodo.com/walmarts-robots-dont-appear-to-be-going-over-so-great-w-1835315667
https://www.popsci.com/self-driving-cars-cities-usa
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/02/lyft-aptiv-autonomous-las-vegas-55000-rides/


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

In is funny how so many of those self driving cares aren't.

A few extracts from:

https://www.popsci.com/self-driving-cars-cities-usa*Aptiv*

Aptiv says they've completed more than 30,000 Lyft trips and hauled around more than 50,000 passengers, and while the vehicles are autonomous, *a real human sits behind the wheel and in the passenger seat, too.

Aurora*

Their self-driving VW e-Golfs and Lincoln MKZs are on the streets of Palo Alto, San Francisco, and Pittsburgh-*with two vehicle operators on board, too.

Cruise*

General Motors has owned autonomous car company Cruise since 2016, and their gen-three autonomous Chevy Bolts are on the roads of San Francisco, Scottsdale, Arizona, and Orion, Michigan. (The Bolt is Chevy's all-electric vehicle, and not to be confused with their hybrid Volt, which they recently put out to the asphalt pasture.) *These self-driving Bolts have safety drivers behind the wheel,

Ford*

The company has autonomous vehicles on the road in Miami, Pittsburgh, Washington, D.C. and Dearborn, Michigan. They're also licensed to start testing this year in Palo Alto, California. *Those cars also have two safety personnel on board-one behind the wheel, and one in the passenger seat.

Über*

Finally, Uber is also running their autonomous cars in Toronto and San Francisco in manual mode, *meaning a human is driving.

Waymo*

They recently launched an autonomous taxi service in four cities in the Phoenix, Arizona area, which is only open to hundreds of people, according to the company; those people can use an app to summon a self-driving Chrysler Pacifica (*which has two Waymo-employed humans up front*) and then go somewhere in it, like Uber or Lyft.

*Zoox*

The cars *have a safety driver behind the wheel, as well as a software operator onboard*, and while they have a permit from the California Public Utilities Commission to pick up passengers, they're not yet doing so.


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

Who is John Galt? said:


> In is funny how so many of those self driving cares aren't.
> 
> A few extracts from:
> 
> ...


TL : DR


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

RabbleRouser said:


> Right !!! Propaganda OR......a river in Egypt ??.... Dee-Nile
> 
> https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-... NL 060619 (1)&utm_medium=email&utm_source=nl
> https://gizmodo.com/walmarts-robots-dont-appear-to-be-going-over-so-great-w-1835315667
> ...


Denial of what? You didn't read my post. You scanned over it.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Who is John Galt? said:


> This news article is over four months old, but the technology has been used on mine sites for quite some time.
> 
> Rio Tinto and to a lesser degree BHP, have been using these trucks in the massive Pilbara iron ore mines in Western Australia for quite some time.
> 
> ...


lol so in places where nobody can verify it's really happening

sure ?


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

RabbleRouser said:


> TL : DR


Obviously you can't handle your own propaganda.

.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Jobs will be cut in HR ... mtg industry
It is already starting ... 

Drone delivery- if that works out, you could see more heads chopped and more drivers with brand new cars driving for u/l?
I was at a neighborhood today, 5 houses on sale, 1 of them foreclosed , a 450k house, a house that will easily fetch 2 million plus in Bay Area... area is known for foreclosure's and shady mtg practices .


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

Who is John Galt? said:


> Obviously you can't handle your own propaganda.
> 
> .


No, Just intolerant of big winds from empty caves


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

RabbleRouser said:


> No, Just intolerant of big winds from empty caves


So, what you are saying is you have a flatulence problem? LOL Maybe some Beano might help. :smiles:

.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

RabbleRouser said:


> Both @uberdriverfornow & @TheDevilisaParttimer lack SDC & Technology credentials, are unobjective and too emotional to assume any credibility to a response
> 
> Similar to asking a far left voter if trump has a chance at reelection


How about this then from someone that loves the idea of and is up to date on the actual tech.

1) Who performs the required by law pre trip inspections on every truck?
2) Who fuels the truck or plugs it in at the charging stations?
3) Who installs the load locks or straps?
4) Who opens the doors on the trailer?
5) Who secures the locks on the trailer and has the key at the other end?
6) Who hooks up the trailer air and electrical lines from the tractor?
7) Who puts the landing gear down and pulls the fifth wheel release on the rig so you can unhook?
8) Who directs the tractor to where the empty trailer for its return run is (if it is a drop and hook instead of a live load/unload)?

@RabbleRouser lacks trucking knowledge or even basic reasoning skills to see that the tech, while amazing, does not eliminate the NEED for a human tender to be in that truck the entire time regardless of if they are driving the truck or not (at least for open road Over The Road loads as opposed to closed loop short shuttling jobs, port/rail yard movers).

Also, mathematically how does 150 trucks eliminate 400 jobs.
Even a team truck only has 2 people in it, totaling 300 people... then you have to add in all the jobs needed at each shipper and receiver to replace the work done by the drivers...oh and don't forget the fleet of people the trucking companies would have to hire to fuel their trucks because the Truck Stops won't take on the liability involved in fueling.
Not to mention needing to have people at all the places along a trucks route to do the inspections.

Yeah, that will be cheaper than just paying the schlubs driving the truck to do all that work for free (because they only get paid for their rolled mileage and not for any of their on duty not driving time).



Who is John Galt? said:


> This news article is over four months old, but the technology has been used on mine sites for quite some time.
> 
> Rio Tinto and to a lesser degree BHP, have been using these trucks in the massive Pilbara iron ore mines in Western Australia for quite some time.
> 
> ...


Zero relationship between closed course networks (all internal system roads from mone to processing or closed loop circuits like from ship/rail yards for container


RabbleRouser said:


> TL : DR


Who is in denial? 
Right, you are... read just the bolded extracts. 
Or
TL;DR is you are wrong and the tech (which will one day be amazing) is definitely not ready for OTR trucking and won't be getting rid of the live person in the truck anytime soon.

Doubt it?

Go get a job as a truck driver and show me a single truck that can hook up air lines and perform its own pre trip inspection etc.


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> How about this then from someone that loves the idea of and is up to date on the actual tech.


I agree with all you have written, however there appears to be some confusion in the comments and how they relate to the article in the OP.

The article is about mining trucks i.e. 400 tonne monsters that carry iron ore or other minerals, usually from an open cut mine.

These are not highway going trucks. They are working on a mine site where the nearest human being may be several kilometres away.

As I mentioned above, and as is mentioned in the OP article, the use of the automated trucks *on mining sites* is not new and has been going on for a number of years in the Pilbara and elsewhere.

These massive Komatsu trucks are worth $5 million *each*, so the mining companies are only using tried and tested tech to protect their assets and avoid losses.

.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

Who is John Galt? said:


> I agree with all you have written, however there appears to be some confusion in the comments and how they relate to the article in the OP.
> 
> The article is about mining trucks i.e. 400 tonne monsters that carry iron ore or other minerals, usually from an open cut mine.
> 
> ...


Shut my mouth and call me cornsyrup...

Well aren't I glad I included the "this excludes closed course and shuttle" situations...
And I deserve the correction for not reading the OP article.

Yeah if all they are doing is being loaded with ore (or any bulk top load carriage) and then dumping at a processing facility, total automation for daily work is easy. Farms do it with simple GPS controlled relatively dumb systems.
Still need fuelers and inspectors for the fleet each and every shift...


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Shut my mouth and call me cornsyrup...
> 
> Well aren't I glad I included the "this excludes closed course and shuttle" situations...
> And I deserve the correction for not reading the OP article.
> ...


We're on the same page ?

.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Who is John Galt? said:


> In is funny how so many of those self driving cares aren't.
> 
> A few extracts from:
> 
> ...


I like the ones with TWO humans!!


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Who is John Galt? said:


> We're on the same page ?
> 
> .


Thanks for clarifying, rabble rouser and his 50 other profiles are always taking info and twisting it to his narrative.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

goneubering said:


> I like the ones with TWO humans!!


lol 2 employees + a $50,000 car is cheaper than an independent contractor

#UberMath #LyftMath ??


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

TheDevilIsAPartTimer said:


> My problem is business entities misrepresenting when, what, and where in regards to SDCs.
> 
> It isn't legitimate technology discussions. Instead they are using the promise of hope to cheat people out of their hard earned money.
> 
> It is propaganda plan and simple.


You just nailed it right there.

I live a couple of hundred KM's from the oil sands where these are already used and where the article is referring to. Basically they are in a mine site and run around on a closed loop, with no other traffic. IT IS NOT ANY SORT OF TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENT WHATSOEVER and while driver's may not be required, there is a whole host of other people needed to operate and maintain them. Typical crap journalism.

Move along, nothing to see here.


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## Single Malt (Nov 11, 2018)

ANT 7 said:


> IT IS NOT ANY SORT OF TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENT WHATSOEVER


Really? The trucks used to require a driver and now they don't. But nothing to see here.


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## RabbleRouser (Apr 30, 2019)

ANT 7 said:


> You just nailed it right there.
> 
> I live a couple of hundred KM's from the oil sands where these are already used and where the article is referring to. Basically they are in a mine site and run around on a closed loop, with no other traffic. IT IS NOT ANY SORT OF TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENT WHATSOEVER and while driver's may not be required, there is a whole host of other people needed to operate and maintain them. Typical crap journalism.
> 
> Move along, nothing to see here.


*Denial*, is used for a psychological defense mechanism in which a 
?Low Skill Worker is faced with a fact that is too 
uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, 
insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.?


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

20 years ago you could do that.

Yawn.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

RabbleRouser said:


> *Denial*, is used for a psychological defense mechanism in which a
> ?Low Skill Worker is faced with a fact that is too
> uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead,
> insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.?


I really want to give @RabbleRouser the benefit of the doubt

He posts this thread about how in the trucking biz we might see robots take over for human drivers.

But then a couple of users with clear experience in the trucking biz come here and give credible evidence why that probably won't happen, and if it does it can only happen in very specific situations which lo and behold is what the original article said.

And after all that, the only thing RR can say in rebuttal is that these users are in "denial"?

They sound pretty credible to me


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