# For those that complain about Uber's cut.



## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.

The complaint usually along the lines of “I can’t believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!”. At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.

Let me explain. In every market there has always been a posted per mile/minute fare. Currently, in my market (Boston) its $1.35 per mile/$0.21 per minute. Depending on when you started driving for Uber, they either take 20% or 25% of that mile/min fare for commission. In my case, it’s 20%. Therefore I get paid $1.08 per mile and $0.168 per minute (minus fees). If I was at 25% it would be $1.0125 mile/$0.1575 per minute (minus fees). The only way I will ever get paid more is if there is surge/boost (multiply those mile/min numbers by the surge/boost multipliers) or through incentives. Other than the lower fares, this is how I have always been paid in the 3+ years since I’ve been doing this.

Therefore, those are the only numbers I review when looking at my fare. And as long as I get paid correctly based on route and multipliers, I move on because it is all I can and should expect.

I do not spend much time worrying about how much the rider spent. Because ,quite frankly, they are the ones getting ripped off. The upfront fares they pay SHOULD be based off of the per mile/min rate in that market, just as my pay does. But since Uber does not break down how they determined the upfront price, they can and usually do charge above and beyond the what the mile/min rate (plus advertised fees) should be for the ride. And all the difference all goes into Uber’s pocket. But the riders either don’t realize they are being ripped off, or they don’t care. So to me, that is on them.

Is short, as always, we drivers get paid 75% or 80% of the market fares (minus fees), not 75% to 80% of what the rider pays. If that bugs you, the best way to fight it is to let pax know they are being ripped off and how to beat it, or long haul when you can to reduce Uber’s cut.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

What annoys us about that is that while Uber keeps giving itself raises, it keeps giving us pay cuts.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> What annoys us about that is that while Uber keeps giving itself raises, it keeps giving us pay cuts.


I agree with you that rates in many places are too low. However as far as actual 'cuts' are concerned, (I don't know about your market but) where I drive there haven't been any cuts since the infamous cuts of Jan 2016. In fact rates in NJ have inched back up a few times since then (albeit not by a massive amount).


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> What annoys us about that is that while Uber keeps giving itself raises, it keeps giving up pay cuts.


Completely agree. And that is worth about. But this is more related to those who still look at their fares and expect to see that they are getting paid 75% of what pax paid.



reg barclay said:


> I agree with you that rates in many places are too low. However as far as actual 'cuts' are concerned, (I don't know about your market but) where I drive there haven't been any cuts since the infamous cuts of Jan 2016. In fact rates in NJ have inched back up a few times since then (albeit not by a massive amount).


Ditto. However there are other ways they work to reduce driver pay (like suppressing surge) that is worth getting worked up about. But the pay process has not changed one bit.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> let pax know they are being ripped off


Everything you said pretty much became worthless to me after I read that.

Just like you said drivers are getting paid what they agreed to, riders are getting charged what they agreed to.

I bet if you get a nice 3.5x surge ride for 45+ minutes, you won't be too quick to let them know they are being ripped off and should only be paying $1.35 a mile, not $4 a mile.

Riders are NOT being ripped off.

They're getting great deals.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> Everything you said pretty much became worthless to me after I read that.
> 
> Just like you said drivers are getting paid what they agreed to, riders are getting charged what they agreed to.
> 
> ...


When I open the Uber app as a Pax and put in destination, I get up upfront fare. On that upfront fare is an "Info" icon. If I click on it, it gives a breakdown of the charges that SHOULD determine my fare.



















I have calculated this trip many times. On every occasion calculating current time and distance using all reasonable routes from Google Maps and Waze, the upfront price is anywhere between $4 to $13 more than it should be based on these numbers. But there is no way to figure out where that extra $4-$13 is coming from. (It's not surge because it never surges here). Maybe pax aren't getting ripped off, but they are being over-charged.

And in your scenario, I wouldn't say a damned thing became I don't care that they are being over charged. As long as I am paid correctly, that's all that matters to me. I just mentioned it as an option a driver could use if they are upset how by how much pax paid compared to how much they are getting paid.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

reg barclay said:


> I agree with you that rates in many places are too low. However as far as actual 'cuts' are concerned, (I don't know about your market but) where I drive there haven't been any cuts since the infamous cuts of Jan 2016. In fact rates in NJ have inched back up a few times since then (albeit not by a massive amount).


There have not been any here, since then, either. There were several between August, 2014 and January, 2016. Other drivers with longer tenure than mine have told me of more before that.

There has been no increase in payouts to drivers, here. There have been bonuses and other incentives, but no increase in base rates.


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

How are riders getting ripped off? There’s a reason rideshare is so popular is because it gives people an affordable means a transportation.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

CJfrom619 said:


> How are riders getting ripped off? There's a reason rideshare is so popular is because it gives people an affordable means a transportation.


Again, maybe a poor choice of words on my part (I was trying to play it off my statement about driver's claiming we are being ripped-off when they see Uber taking 55% of rider payment, seems I didn't sell it well). What I really meant is that riders are over-paying when compared to advertised rates. This is the cause of why Uber takes such a big cut, not because they are ripping off drivers.


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

Many of the drivers that signed up a couple of years ago were presented an pay agreement that was based on rate, a single rate. Since then Uber has changed their business practice to uses two rate schemes, one for the passenger and one for the driver. This difference was initially implemented without being addressed in a new driver agreement. That issue is the basis of current driver law suit that covers the period between the earliest implementation of the two scale system and the subsequent revision of the driver agreement.
Uber is also under federal investigation regarding "Transparent Pricing" violations when it became apparent that Uber was charging some customers more than others for the same time and distance. It was revealed last fall that customers from better neighborhoods or heavy spenders were getting a bit of a "bump" in their charges.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

I agree this site does not have enough stickys as other forums I have been apart of. Most I think have been created by moderators I think but other members have made very thoughtful information that absolutely should be stickys

Besides the featured stuff, we should be able to nominate stickys


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

I think a sticky post explaining how Uber's current fare/pay system works (without going into the pros and cons or rights and wrongs of it) might be a good idea.


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

So maybe there should be...

A "STICKY" forum...8>)

Only threads that are "sticky"...

With only a rare "stinky" one...

Rakos








PS. These are "sticky" monkeys...8>)


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## Gilby (Nov 7, 2017)

As a long-time manager who has hired hundreds of people over many years, and has done even more hundreds of performance reviews and pay reviews, in my opinion (as an employee in addition to being an employer) there is just one fundamental question:

*Do you feel fairly compensated for the work that you do?
*
All the other things - how much the company profits from your work, how your pay compares to others doing similar work, etc., etc. - doesn't really matter.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

We certainly need a Rakos table in the club lol


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## henrygates (Mar 29, 2018)

Gilby said:


> As a long-time manager who has hired hundreds of people over many years, and has done even more hundreds of performance reviews and pay reviews, in my opinion (as an employee in addition to being an employer) there is just one fundamental question:
> 
> *Do you feel fairly compensated for the work that you do?
> *
> All the other things - how much the company profits from your work, how your pay compares to others doing similar work, etc., etc. - doesn't really matter.


No.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Gilby said:


> As a long-time manager who has hired hundreds of people over many years, and has done even more hundreds of performance reviews and pay reviews, in my opinion (as an employee in addition to being an employer) there is just one fundamental question:
> 
> *Do you feel fairly compensated for the work that you do?
> *
> All the other things - how much the company profits from your work, how your pay compares to others doing similar work, etc., etc. - doesn't really matter.


I can't possibly imagine there is a driver on here that would answer yes to that question (except for maybe the rare driver who does this for fun or thinks of this as a way provide some kind of community service or something)

On a macro level, what I think can be reasoned here (with no argument from me) is if Uber can over-charge pax compared to advertised rates, and pax have no problem being over-charged, shouldn't the drivers be in on some of that additional revenue seeing everything we bring to the table? I'd be willing to bet you'd have a hard time finding anyone here that would say no.

But my main point of this post was to dispel the notion that Uber is somehow taking a larger part of the driver's pie than was agreed to. I know approximately how much much I will make on each ride by looking at the miles and ETA on the GPS. How much the rider agreed to pay for that same trip is inconsequential to me on a micro level.


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## superdupersecret (Apr 10, 2018)

jazzapt said:


> On a macro level, what I think can be reasoned here (with no argument from me) is if Uber can over-charge pax compared to advertised rates, and pax have no problem being over-charged


If the rider is agreeing to the up-front pricing, then they are not being "over-charged". The term overcharged would apply if they agreed to one price, but were charged something different. The reason for the difference (as you imply it from the advertised rates) is simply a "fudge factor". Uber is basically guaranteeing the price of the ride (the "up front fare"), so the pax knows exactly what he will be charged, and not have to worry about the tally running up while the ride is going. The "fudge" factor is to account for things that might make the ride cost more to Uber, like additional traffic or accidents that it can't account for.

Really, it's the best (least-worst?) compromise for all involved (Pax/Driver/Uber).

1. Pax knows what they are paying up front. If they don't like the fare, they won't take it. This is why surge comes and goes so fast: lots of riders see the price, then bail because they don't want to pay it.
2. Driver gets paid exactly what they agreed to: by the mile/minute. This is to your original point.
3. Uber reduces their losses when the route changes. The upfront pricing is just a guess. So they add in additional slack to cover the unknown. Sometimes it works out for them, sometimes it doesn't.


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

reg barclay said:


> I agree with you that rates in many places are too low. However as far as actual 'cuts' are concerned, (I don't know about your market but) where I drive there haven't been any cuts since the infamous cuts of Jan 2016. In fact rates in NJ have inched back up a few times since then (albeit not by a massive amount).


Same here, but Uber keeps working on how to get more from a ride w/o giving us a cut of it. Higher booking fee and upfront pricing are just two examples of this.


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## henrygates (Mar 29, 2018)

In other words he's saying exploiting workers is okay because the worker can just find another job if they don't like it.

That's why we ended up with unions.


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

superdupersecret said:


> If the rider is agreeing to the up-front pricing, then they are not being "over-charged". The term overcharged would apply if they agreed to one price, but were charged something different. The reason for the difference (as you imply it from the advertised rates) is simply a "fudge factor". Uber is basically guaranteeing the price of the ride (the "up front fare"), so the pax knows exactly what he will be charged, and not have to worry about the tally running up while the ride is going. The "fudge" factor is to account for things that might make the ride cost more to Uber, like additional traffic or accidents that it can't account for.
> 
> Really, it's the best (least-worst?) compromise for all involved (Pax/Driver/Uber).
> 
> ...


You're right about everything here except for one thing. Uber attaches their mile/min charge and fee schedule to the price when you order the ride. This indicates that these are the factors used to determine your price. They are being over-charged WHEN COMPARED TO THE PRICES Uber advertises when you order the ride. But if pax is cool with that and orders it anyway, that is on them (I'm willing to bet 99% of them don't even know the fee schedule is there, which is what Uber probably counts on). They are just agreeing to be over-charged. Like someone else said, at base the ride is still pretty cheap, so why should they care?

But again, my main point here is that when drivers sees Uber's cut is like 50%, its because Uber charged the pax that much above and beyond advertised pricing and pocketed the difference.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

henrygates said:


> They are being over-charged WHEN COMPARED TO THE PRICES Uber advertises when you order the ride.


This is true.
But this has been happening since the first ever surge.

The only difference now is drivers aren't enjoying that "over charging" of pax.

I am 100% OK with over charging pax. 
I just want my cut DAMMIT!


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Cableguynoe said:


> This is true.
> But this has been happening since the first ever surge.
> 
> The only difference now is drivers aren't enjoying that "over charging" of pax.
> ...


Completely agree with you there. But Uber needs to pay for these law suits and SDCs somehow...


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Well... last night...
out of $246 gross revenue

My cut was $142= 57%

The cab company took $73 =30%

Opec got $25 =10.1%

The turnpike comission got $6.00 =2%

Square got $2.47 <1%
(they charge 2.75% but i only had $90 in credit card receipts)


Guess who owns the car?

30%+ without providing a car is complete BS


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## Pulledclear (Oct 31, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


Great analysis. You're going places!


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

I don't complain about upfront pricing. I have figured out how to turn it into a fare increase for me. I always go the long way whenever possible.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Gilby said:


> Do you feel fairly compensated for the work that you do?


No.

If the companies covered some of the expenses, that would be different.

If the companies would communicate the changes, we might not be so bitter.

Like 96% of people who sign up, I too am looking for the exit, or at least pushing to turn this back into part time, when it was fun.

What they charge is irrelevant. So the question "Am I getting paid fairly?" is very appropriate. And the answer is no, due to expenses primarily.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

jazzapt said:


> When I open the Uber app as a Pax and put in destination, I get up upfront fare. On that upfront fare is an "Info" icon. If I click on it, it gives a breakdown of the charges that SHOULD determine my fare.
> 
> View attachment 239523
> 
> ...


It's interesting to me that you don't see the language that allows Uber to get away with this: "Fare changes from price shown at booking ..." This means a pax agrees to the upfront price, if the ride doesn't change from the quoted start and end, that's what they pay. If it deviates, then it's based on mile and minute. So by your reasoning, pax agree to fare, they are not being overcharged, no issue here.

My gripe is what's been noted above, Uber's interests and ours are no longer aligned. There goal is to raise rates and booking fees to increase their take but they do not correspond to an increase in driver pay. There is no incentive for them to raise driver rates any time soon. Furthermore, there have been allegations of surge stealing, i.e. charging pax a higher demand rate but sending the ping out at a lower rate. I've never been able to get definitive proof of this but I've seen enough anecdotal pings to believe this may be a real phenomena.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> there have been allegations of surge stealing, i.e. charging pax a higher demand rate but sending the ping out at a lower rate.


The night of the Mayweather fight both U and L were surging at 100% when it was over. I got a Lyft ride, the guy said "Uber wants to charge me $60 for this ride! Lyft is only charging me $24."

Uber was charging pax 5x but paying drivers 2x.


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## Muggywuggy (Jun 28, 2018)

It’s the short rides that we get ripped off on. most rides are relatively short also (under 5 miles)


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## jazzapt (May 16, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> It's interesting to me that you don't see the language that allows Uber to get away with this: "Fare changes from price shown at booking ..." This means a pax agrees to the upfront price, if the ride doesn't change from the quoted start and end, that's what they pay. If it deviates, then it's based on mile and minute. So by your reasoning, pax agree to fare, they are not being overcharged, no issue here.
> 
> My gripe is what's been noted above, Uber's interests and ours are no longer aligned. There goal is to raise rates and booking fees to increase their take but they do not correspond to an increase in driver pay. There is no incentive for them to raise driver rates any time soon. Furthermore, there have been allegations of surge stealing, i.e. charging pax a higher demand rate but sending the ping out at a lower rate. I've never been able to get definitive proof of this but I've seen enough anecdotal pings to believe this may be a real phenomena.


I see it and I get it. The problem is this thread has gone off the rails. And that is my fault because I used technically incorrect terms like pax being ripped-off and over-charged, and that allowed it to deviate from my original point.

What I was trying to indicate is that is a per mile/min charge in each city. At the time I created the screen shot, my upfront price was $47.52. I calculated, and that trip would cost $39 with the market rates properly applied. I've seen this as high as $52 with no surge and a similar ETA and traffic conditions (according to Google and Waze).

A savvy pax would know how to beat this and pay closer to the $39 it should be. And they can get this ride for $8 cheaper by forcing market rates to apply to it. But most pax can't be bothered with this (because they don't know or they don't care). They pay what Uber tells them to pay, and they don't question it.

The real point of this thread is that extra $8 goes to Uber and skews their percentage of the fare. And as much as I would love to have a share of that $8 they are able extract from pax, it is not a part of what I agreed to be paid. So fixating on it only would only cause undue stress (especially when they dupe someone to pay $75 for the same ride). I just do my best to beat it by long hauling when possible (and I used "Stop New Requests" when I did pool rides). This reduces Uber's take.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Mista T said:


> What they charge is irrelevant.


I wouldn't say that it's irrelevant. What Uber charges does affect drivers.

When rates were on the way down, Uber would present colourful charts and analyses in support of its claims that lower prices paid by pax would result in increased ride volume. They were correct; the law of supply and demand states that, for price elastic goods, demand will increase as price is lowered. Uber's pitch to drivers was that although drivers would be grossing less per ride, they would make it up on volume. That wasn't the full story, of course (they ignored the increased costs resulting from higher volumes) but they were correct in the basic economic assertion that lower prices = higher volume.

Now that pax fares are going the other way, up, the same law of supply and demand says that demand will decrease as prices increase. "We're raising prices, but your pay will be unaffected!", says Uber now. Conveniently "forgetting" to include colourful charts on how their price hikes reduce demand / ride volume.

Less demand, without any compensating share in the higher prices that are causing that decreased demand - drivers are indeed affected by Uber's price hikes; what they charge isn't irrelevant. We've seen the effects in many cities now - the disappearance of surge. As explained above, this is a result of Uber increasing the price enough to choke demand down to a point where they can fill that demand without having to pay a premium to drivers. It's simply a matter of balancing demand and supply by controlling the price, and Uber maximising revenue for themselves.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I wouldn't say that it's irrelevant. What Uber charges does affect drivers.
> 
> When rates were on the way down, Uber would present colourful charts and analyses in support of its claims that lower prices paid by pax would result in increased ride volume. They were correct; the law of supply and demand states that, for price elastic goods, demand will increase as price is lowered. Uber's pitch to drivers was that although drivers would be grossing less per ride, they would make it up on volume. That wasn't the full story, of course (they ignored the increased costs resulting from higher volumes) but they were correct in the basic economic assertion that lower prices = higher volume.
> 
> ...


You are correct.

I was simply referring to the disconnect between pax charge and driver pay.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

OP couldn't be more wrong.

Yes, we get what we contracted.

That doesn't mean we're not getting screwed when Uber raises fares in such a way that they keep it all to themselves.

There's no way to look at it except we're getting a smaller and smaller piece of the pie.

If you're happy with that, there's something wrong with you.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I wouldn't say that it's irrelevant. What Uber charges does affect drivers.
> 
> When rates were on the way down, Uber would present colourful charts and analyses in support of its claims that lower prices paid by pax would result in increased ride volume. They were correct; the law of supply and demand states that, for price elastic goods, demand will increase as price is lowered. Uber's pitch to drivers was that although drivers would be grossing less per ride, they would make it up on volume. That wasn't the full story, of course (they ignored the increased costs resulting from higher volumes) but they were correct in the basic economic assertion that lower prices = higher volume.
> 
> ...


Thank you for making the argument so elegantly, that's exactly the issue. The one other thing I would mention is that by increasing the price that way, they reinforce the notion of not tipping, as the ride gets more expensive, people are going to be less inclined to give a little extra so money that they might have paid as a gratuity is now going to Uber.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

You guys should appreciate all the things these companies like uber and lyft do. There is a lot of costs and expenses drivers dont know, aware or have any clue about like rape lawsuits lol


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


Unless you're in a Florida market, where Uber raised their own rates but didn't raise ours, taking my 80% to 73% of the mileage / minute rate here in Tampa.

There are times when Uber does have to use the actual mileage and actual minute rate. For example, with a changed destination mid trip. Either way, I'm only getting 73% and it used to be 80%. It wasn't an actual pay cut, I'm just making the same and Uber is making more. This is on top of upfront pricing.

On the whole though, I agree with you. What the rider pays Uber is of no concern to me. I do think that raising their own mileage and minute rates without raising those of the driver sucks, but there's nothing I can do about it.



Another Uber Driver said:


> What annoys us about that is that while Uber keeps giving itself raises, it keeps giving us pay cuts.


That's the thing, your pay is not being cut. The original poster was pointing out that your pay is remaining the same while Uber is making more, and the rider is paying more.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

What about an hourly guarantees like 1 badge and hour? But you have to stay online and have a 90% acceptance rate for that hour


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

jazzapt said:


> ...as much as I would love to have a share of that $8 they are able extract from pax, it is not a part of what I agreed to be paid.


Actually it is part of what you agreed to be paid. Uber gets its booking fee and 20-25% of the fare. Nothing in there says they can raise the fare and take the excess. It's part of the fare, they should only get their agreed upon commission.

Of course if we got paid off the full upfront we could get bit in the rear as well here and there, occasionally they do underestimate the actual (legit non-longhaul) trip.


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## AllGold (Sep 16, 2016)

CTK said:


> ...
> 
> That's the thing, your pay is not being cut. The original poster was pointing out that your pay is remaining the same while Uber is making more, and the rider is paying more.


But it actually is being cut in some cases. A 2.5X surge used to be a 2.5X surge to everyone, the pax, the driver and Uber. But now, many times Uber charges the pax 2.5X but gives the driver less. In some cases the driver is sent the ping with no surge at all.

And then there's the flat surge being paid to drivers in some markets. You don't think Uber is charging pax a flat surge, do you?



Fauxknight said:


> Actually it is part of what you agreed to be paid. Uber gets its booking fee and 20-25% of the fare. Nothing in there says they can raise the fare and take the excess. It's part of the fare, they should only get their agreed upon commission.


Technically, that's not correct. When Uber changed the TOS (and forced us all to agree to it or not be able to drive), they specified we are paid 20-25% of *time and mileage* (plus surge if applicable). The change made the fare paid by the rider completely irrelevant to the drivers.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

AllGold said:


> But it actually is being cut in some cases. A 2.5X surge used to be a 2.5X surge to everyone, the pax, the driver and Uber. But now, many times Uber charges the pax 2.5X but gives the driver less. In some cases the driver is sent the ping with no surge at all.
> 
> And then there's the flat surge being paid to drivers in some markets. You don't think Uber is charging pax a flat surge, do you?
> 
> Technically, that's not correct. When Uber changed the TOS (and forced us all to agree to it or not be able to drive), they specified we are paid 20-25% of *time and mileage* (plus surge if applicable). The change made the fare paid by the rider completely irrelevant to the drivers.


We were *always* paid 20-25% of time and mileage. We still are. Lol unless you're in Florida, where the percentages dropped due to an increase in time & mileage rates to Uber & to the rider, but not to the driver. But even then driver pay is a percentage of time & mileage at your market's rate, just like always.


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

CTK said:


> We were *always* paid 20-25% of time and mileage. We still are.


Nope, we were paid based on a % of the fare and the fare was primarily based on time and mileage. So it may have felt like that, but it isn't how it worked. In fact even today I still get a % of the calculated fare which includes a non-time/non-mileage base charge., meaning I'm not payed 100% off time and mileage.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

Fauxknight said:


> Nope, we were paid based on a % of the fare and the fare was primarily based on time and mileage. So it may have felt like that, but it isn't how it worked. In fact even today I still get a % of the calculated fare which includes a non-time/non-mileage base charge., meaning I'm not payed 100% off time and mileage.


Riders used to be charged actual time & mileage + base fare + booking fee. We have gotten a percentage of all but the booking fee from the beginning, and we still do. What has changed is that the riders are no longer charged actual time & miles, but rather a loose estimate based on those rates, + booking fee + base fare + whatever else Uber feels like charging them.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> while Uber keeps giving itself raises, it keeps giving us pay cuts.





Another Uber Driver said:


> There were several between August, 2014 and January, 2016. Other drivers with longer tenure than mine have told me of more before that. .





CTK said:


> That's the thing, your pay is not being cut. The original poster was pointing out that your pay is remaining the same while Uber is making more, and the rider is paying more.


The pay cuts to which I was referring were those in the second quote.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Two days ago, the Motley Fool published an article telling the world that drivers get a 75/25 split with these companies. Nice journalistic research, jerk-offs!

Two days ago!


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Mista T said:


> Two days ago, the Motley Fool published an article telling the world that drivers get a 75/25 split with these companies. Nice journalistic research, jerk-offs!
> 
> Two days ago!


It seems that the publication is appropriately named.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Kodyhead said:


> You guys should appreciate all the things these companies like uber and lyft do. There is a lot of costs and expenses drivers dont know, aware or have any clue about like rape lawsuits lol


What about our costs? What about when gas prices jumped 75 cents a gallon two months ago? We had to eat it.


----------



## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

I guess you missed that one coach


----------



## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> I agree this site does not have enough stickys as other forums I have been apart of. Most I think have been created by moderators I think but other members have made very thoughtful information that absolutely should be stickys
> 
> Besides the featured stuff, we should be able to nominate stickys


Other forums?!! I simply cannot believe you have been visiting other forums let alone being 'a part' of them.

I am shocked! I had no idea you were that sort of guy.

I feel absolutely violated, as I'm sure all other members here do.

.


----------



## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

I was a mod in of them lol, it was much more organized imo but not nearly as large as this one though.

No reason every market doesnt have an airport and stadium sticky for example.

Imo there should be a paid section as well, keep out most of the knuckleheads and be able to share and get better info

I doubt most of the alleged people who dont have balls to disagree or discuss would open up another account and pay for another fee lol


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

Kodyhead said:


> I was a mod in of them lol, it was much more organized imo but not nearly as large as this one though.
> 
> No reason every market doesnt have an airport and stadium sticky for example.
> 
> ...


Yeah, interesting point. Have you had any luck in your application for the black label / subscriber section here yet, or is the pre-vetting ongoing?

I wrote a 10,000 word reference / endorsement / jerk-off letter on your behalf, so I suppose the powers that be are still trying to comprehend the content of that before giviving you the appropriate badge.

.


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## Steve_TX (Feb 2, 2016)

jazzapt said:


> ... And all the difference all goes into Uber's pocket. But the riders either don't realize they are being ripped off, or they don't care.


Every pax that has ever mentioned their impression of how there fare is split believes that we get 20% - 25% of the total they pay. They under the impression that we're making much more than we are, thus less likely to tip.

Check it out for yourself, Google:
"*What is Uber's commission?*"

Here's the top, spotlighted result from Forbes Magazine:
"*Since it launched in 2012, Uber's popular, low-cost service UberX has always had a 20% commission, where Uber takes a one-fifth of the fare (or, in Uber's parlance, drivers pay a 20% fee to license the technology). But last year, Uber started testing whether it could charge drivers more for the same thing.*"

That made me laugh, then cry. We all need to press the Feedback link, just under that result and let Google know that is misleading and inaccurate.


----------



## Garbage Plate (Aug 13, 2017)

Yes Uber and Lyft can charge the customer as much as they want and pay us as little as possible. And I agreed to their terms. Here's my problem. These 2 companies have an oligarchy. Where's the competition? It costs $100,000 to get a TNC license in New York State. One Hundred Thousand F'ing Dollars. And 60 grand to renew every year. Who the F came up with those numbers and who wrote the law? I have my suspicions. The license should be no higher than starting any other business. This is keeping other startups from getting into this business.


----------



## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

_Lower rates mean more trips, which means more money for you!
_
Remember that one : ?


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> I agree with you that rates in many places are too low. However as far as actual 'cuts' are concerned, (I don't know about your market but) where I drive there haven't been any cuts since the infamous cuts of Jan 2016. In fact rates in NJ have inched back up a few times since then (albeit not by a massive amount).


Rates are too low in "many" places?

Tell us where you feel rates aren't too low.

Both companies use "promotions" such as quest and boost as part of driver pay, as a control mechanism to try to force drivers into working more than they want to.

Promotions have been CUT or eliminated, so that in itself is a paycut.

Quests and boosts have been slashed, and uber is scamming the surges

Uber punishes drivers who manage to achieve their quests by making them more difficult and lower paying.

And uber's hefty booking fee and pare hikes HURTS tipping, which is yet another form of a paycut.



Another Uber Driver said:


> There have not been any here, since then, either. There were several between August, 2014 and January, 2016. Other drivers with longer tenure than mine have told me of more before that.
> 
> There has been no increase in payouts to drivers, here. There have been bonuses and other incentives, but no increase in base rates.


As I pointed out in another post, uber has cut driver pay by CUTTING PROMOTIONS.

Quest and boost have been slashed to the point of becoming a joke.

And uber's theft of surges is another paycut.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Gilby said:


> As a long-time manager who has hired hundreds of people over many years, and has done even more hundreds of performance reviews and pay reviews, in my opinion (as an employee in addition to being an employer) there is just one fundamental question:
> 
> *Do you feel fairly compensated for the work that you do?
> *
> All the other things - how much the company profits from your work, how your pay compares to others doing similar work, etc., etc. - doesn't really matter.


A worker's belief that they're being paid fairly can change in a split second if he or she discovers their salary is below market, or if they discover an obviously inferior co-worker is getting the same or higher salary.

Athletes are very public examples of this.

This is why it's in an employer's best interest to keep workers from finding out what their co-workers are being paid, and why that knowledge provides bargaining power for the workers.

For most workers, "all the other things" are the factors that they use to determine whether the're being paid fairly or not.

It's wishful thinking on your part (as a manager) that workers won't care about those other things. Most do care.

For alleged ICs who work on "commission" such as rideshare drivers or even truckers, most care how much the company is making when the drivers are doing almost all the work, taking most of the risk, and paying the vast majority of the overhead.


----------



## RedSteel (Apr 8, 2017)

My God if you think it's bad now......

Wait till September when the flat surge rate hits

When any decent surge fare nets you maybe 30% of the fare

Last NYE I produced about 800 dollars of fares of which I got close to 600 dollars

Next NYE if I were to work and produce the same amount of revenue I will get approx 300 dollars and Uber will keep 500

That's when this whole thing blows up








These days will be OVER very very soon

Soon the Pax will pay the same amount but I will only get about 17 dollars

All the risk, gas, depreciation stays with me but Uber gets almost all the money


----------



## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


The big sticky point for me is what I have seen Uber doing from the rider side, as I was getting an Uber back home from the car repair shop.

My rider app was quoting me an upfront price based on a completely ridiculous route that would most likely have triggered an "inefficient route" adjustment had the driver actually taken that route and had I complained.

But... mercy mercy me, pray tell, what recommended route showed up on my driver's app once he picked me up? A much more efficient route. Kind of makes you go "Hmmmmm", huh?


----------



## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


You're looking at this from an employee's perspective. We aren't employees. We are independent contractors. Per the terms of service, the passengers are OUR customers, and we agree to charge Uber's rates. So to begin with the total fare is OURS. In exchange for access to the app, we agree in the TOS to pay Uber a service fee, which used to be a fixed 20-25%. Now that service fee that WE pay to Uber is highly variable. That's the real problem.

The first shady thing Uber does is to infer to the passengers that their Upfront Price is based on the actual time and miles of their trip. It is NOT. So the passenger ends up paying way more on many trips than if it was a straight time and miles plus booking fee calculation. The next shady thing Uber does is to direct drivers to take the shortest miles route possible, to minimize driver earnings. The difference between the inflated price the passenger pays and the minimized driver earnings is thrown into the service fee. Uber is essentially tricking drivers into cheating themselves with the navigation directions they send us. Unless we take the time to use Google Maps or Waze and find the longest mile route to each destination, Uber keeps skimming from us. It's OUR money that we are voluntarily giving away to Uber with each trip.



hanging in there said:


> The big sticky point for me is what I have seen Uber doing from the rider side, as I was getting an Uber back home from the car repair shop.
> 
> My rider app was quoting me an upfront price based on a completely ridiculous route that would most likely have triggered an "inefficient route" adjustment had the driver actually taken that route and had I complained.
> 
> But... mercy mercy me, pray tell, what recommended route showed up on my driver's app once he picked me up? A much more efficient route. Kind of makes you go "Hmmmmm", huh?


This is exactly what they do on a regular basis. Unfortunately for the passengers they have no way to reduce their fare by suggesting a shorter route. But at least a smart driver can find a higher miles route that still gets the passenger there in a similar time, so at least the driver can collect as much as possible of the inflated fare.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Atom guy said:


> The first shady thing Uber does is to infer to the passengers that their Upfront Price is based on the actual time and miles of their trip. It is NOT. So the passenger ends up paying way more on many trips than if it was a straight time and miles plus booking fee calculation.


Exactly. How does Uber figure an upfront fee of $40.00 on an airport trip that's paying me $20.00?


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

henrygates said:


> In other words he's saying exploiting workers is okay because the worker can just find another job if they don't like it.
> 
> That's why we ended up with unions.


that's also why people try to break them up.....


----------



## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

Atom guy said:


> You're looking at this from an employee's perspective. We aren't employees. We are independent contractors. Per the terms of service, the passengers are OUR customers, and we agree to charge Uber's rates. So to begin with the total fare is OURS. In exchange for access to the app, we agree in the TOS to pay Uber a service fee, which used to be a fixed 20-25%. Now that service fee that WE pay to Uber is highly variable. That's the real problem.
> 
> The first shady thing Uber does is to infer to the passengers that their Upfront Price is based on the actual time and miles of their trip. It is NOT. So the passenger ends up paying way more on many trips than if it was a straight time and miles plus booking fee calculation. The next shady thing Uber does is to direct drivers to take the shortest miles route possible, to minimize driver earnings. The difference between the inflated price the passenger pays and the minimized driver earnings is thrown into the service fee. Uber is essentially tricking drivers into cheating themselves with the navigation directions they send us. Unless we take the time to use Google Maps or Waze and find the longest mile route to each destination, Uber keeps skimming from us. It's OUR money that we are voluntarily giving away to Uber with each trip.
> 
> This is exactly what they do on a regular basis. Unfortunately for the passengers they have no way to reduce their fare by suggesting a shorter route. But at least a smart driver can find a higher miles route that still gets the passenger there in a similar time, so at least the driver can collect as much as possible of the inflated fare.


You are bringing up an excellent point: the moment Uber started this new trick to enrich themselves by creating a disconnect between what our "earnings" are based on and what the rider is charged, they are essentially redefining the rider as THEIR passenger not yours.

And with that, their flimsy assertion that they are simply a "technology company" not a transportation company flies out the window. This argument has been used to their benefit to hoodwink authorities on countless occasions.

It also, IMO, weakens the "IC vs employee" argument.


----------



## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Atom guy said:


> You're looking at this from an employee's perspective. We aren't employees. We are independent contractors. Per the terms of service, the passengers are OUR customers, and we agree to charge Uber's rates. So to begin with the total fare is OURS. In exchange for access to the app, we agree in the TOS to pay Uber a service fee, which used to be a fixed 20-25%. Now that service fee that WE pay to Uber is highly variable. That's the real problem.
> 
> The first shady thing Uber does is to infer to the passengers that their Upfront Price is based on the actual time and miles of their trip. It is NOT. So the passenger ends up paying way more on many trips than if it was a straight time and miles plus booking fee calculation. The next shady thing Uber does is to direct drivers to take the shortest miles route possible, to minimize driver earnings. The difference between the inflated price the passenger pays and the minimized driver earnings is thrown into the service fee. Uber is essentially tricking drivers into cheating themselves with the navigation directions they send us. Unless we take the time to use Google Maps or Waze and find the longest mile route to each destination, Uber keeps skimming from us. It's OUR money that we are voluntarily giving away to Uber with each trip.
> 
> This is exactly what they do on a regular basis. Unfortunately for the passengers they have no way to reduce their fare by suggesting a shorter route. But at least a smart driver can find a higher miles route that still gets the passenger there in a similar time, so at least the driver can collect as much as possible of the inflated fare.





Coachman said:


> Exactly. How does Uber figure an upfront fee of $40.00 on an airport trip that's paying me $20.00?


_*BINGO! *_Now we're getting somewhere...good job, Gentlemen. In L.A. the smart drivers have fixed this with the infamous:

_Z - H A U L_​


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

And another reason upfront pricing is problematic... this morning I had a woman who asked "why are you charging me $9 to come home when he only charged me $6 to go?

Where do you even go with that? No place good. I just acknowledged her disappointment and remained silent.


----------



## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

Coachman said:


> And another reason upfront pricing is problematic... this morning I had a woman who asked "why are you charging me $9 to come home when he only charged me $6 to go?
> 
> Where do you even go with that? No place good. I just acknowledged her disappointment and remained silent.


I haven't had too much of a problem with this complaint. I just tell people that the prices vary based on how many passengers are requesting rides and how many drivers are online. Usually they just say "Oh, ok" and that's it.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Atom guy said:


> I haven't had too much of a problem with this complaint. I just tell people that the prices vary based on how many passengers are requesting rides and how many drivers are online. Usually they just say "Oh, ok" and that's it.


Sure. But if they're unhappy about it, you know who gets the blame.


----------



## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

hanging in there said:


> You are bringing up an excellent point: the moment Uber started this new trick to enrich themselves by creating a disconnect between what our "earnings" are based on and what the rider is charged, they are essentially redefining the rider as THEIR passenger not yours.
> 
> And with that, their flimsy assertion that they are simply a "technology company" not a transportation company flies out the window. This argument has been used to their benefit to hoodwink authorities on countless occasions.
> 
> It also, IMO, weakens the "IC vs employee" argument.


Yes. Uber is going to screw themselves out of their own business model with this. Thing is, I WANT to be an independent contractor and I WANT Uber to just be a tech company. If they weren't intentionally trying to be shady all around we would all be better off. But they are going to get themselves into more trouble and more governments and judges are going to start saying we are employees.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> What annoys us about that is that while Uber keeps giving itself raises, it keeps giving us pay cuts.


Screw Uber !



jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Coachman said:


> And another reason upfront pricing is problematic... this morning I had a woman who asked "why are you charging me $9 to come home when he only charged me $6 to go?
> 
> Where do you even go with that? No place good. I just acknowledged her disappointment and remained silent.


I don't get too much of this but on the rate occasion that I do, I sympathize with them and express surprise. Explain that i don't get any of that extra money and suggest they contact uber to find out why they were charged more.


----------



## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


In 'SHORT', uber is taking our tips away from us by the upfront pricing....


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

jazzapt said:


> When I open the Uber app as a Pax and put in destination, I get up upfront fare. On that upfront fare is an "Info" icon. If I click on it, it gives a breakdown of the charges that SHOULD determine my fare.
> 
> View attachment 239523
> 
> ...


You are failing to understand those screenshots. The first one shows upfront price. It explicitly says that is the price the pax agrees to for the trip and changes will be based on the rate table. It makes no claim that the upfront price is based on the rate table. So if they change something, then they revert to the rate table .

Uber is not the first no the last to use that type of charge model in business.

To a pax, there is no different between surge and upfront ppricing. The only difference is to the driver, which the pax doesnt give two poops about as far as their compensation.



KevinH said:


> Many of the drivers that signed up a couple of years ago were presented an pay agreement that was based on rate, a single rate. Since then Uber has changed their business practice to uses two rate schemes, one for the passenger and one for the driver. This difference was initially implemented without being addressed in a new driver agreement. That issue is the basis of current driver law suit that covers the period between the earliest implementation of the two scale system and the subsequent revision of the driver agreement.
> Uber is also under federal investigation regarding "Transparent Pricing" violations when it became apparent that Uber was charging some customers more than others for the same time and distance. It was revealed last fall that customers from better neighborhoods or heavy spenders were getting a bit of a "bump" in their charges.


Your contact never changed, they just changed how they charge the pax. Youve always been paid per mile and per minute.


----------



## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Rates are too low in "many" places?
> 
> Tell us where you feel rates aren't too low.


At NJ Shore for example, drivers get $1.33-1.42 per mile. NYC, as well certain parts of Long Island NY (the Hamptons I think), have similar rates. These places have reasons why the rates are what they are (and AFAIK they're not typical of most of the US) nevertheless they do have decent rates IMO.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> Your contact never changed, they just changed how they charge the pax. Youve always been paid per mile and per minute.


That's because the customer was charged per mile and minute. And if the fare went up, our pay went up. So Uber figured out a backhanded way to raise the fare while keeping our pay the same. Are you okay with that?


----------



## Udrivingmecrazy (Sep 5, 2017)

Coachman said:


> OP couldn't be more wrong.
> 
> Yes, we get what we contracted.
> 
> ...


Well, The contract doesn't state we have to take a specific route. I take the most profitable route for myself, not uncle uber.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> At NJ Shore for example, drivers get $1.33-1.42 per mile. NYC, as well certain parts of Long Island NY (the Hamptons I think), have similar rates. These places have reasons why the rates are what they are (and AFAIK they're not typical of most of the US) nevertheless they do have decent rates IMO.


Out of the whole US, you were able to find a select few that have mediocre rates, NOT decent.

Jersey Shore per minute rate is a slightly LESS than the garbage $0.1275 per minute here in DC.

Taxis have decent rates.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Coachman said:


> That's because the customer was charged per mile and minute. And if the fare went up, our pay went up. So Uber figured out a backhanded way to raise the fare while keeping our pay the same. Are you okay with that?


No, so I drove differently to be profitable. Then I stopped driving. If its bad: stop. Thats the only way Uber will truly know what theyre doing can hurt them. With drivers continuing to accept it, that tells Uber theres nothing wrong.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Coachman said:


> And another reason upfront pricing is problematic... this morning I had a woman who asked "why are you charging me $9 to come home when he only charged me $6 to go?
> 
> Where do you even go with that? No place good. I just acknowledged her disappointment and remained silent.


Next time,

"Ma'am, he and I were paid the same. $0.70/mile... Uber as a company charges you whatever rate their algorithm has deemed fair and you can accept it or find another means of transportation.

Me, I still only get $4 out of this ride."


----------



## Daisy&Cream (Jan 27, 2018)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


You missed the point of the complaints - it's not so much about the percentage as it is about the bigger picture that uber is profiting exponentially year after year while simultaneous cutting driver's pay. If you were paid $1.34 per mile in 2016 and you're still getting $1.34 in 2018 - then your pay rate has actually decreased due to inflation. It's exactly your type of argument or perspective that has kept wages across all industries instagnat since the 60s. A company should not be able to increase its productivity and profit margin enormously while paying its workers less and less year after year.

Drivers make up at least 60% (pls someone research the exact figures??) of uber's workforce but share only ~ 10-15% of the profit. That's extremely disproportionate revenue margins if you ask me.

So at very least try to understand the overall picture before trying to use insignificant details to try to make an argument. And yes, you do sound like a shill


----------



## JeffinPhx666 (May 24, 2018)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


$1.35 a mile? I wish. $.95 a mile in Phoenix, and they changed how surge is priced.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Atom guy said:


> You're looking at this from an employee's perspective. We aren't employees. We are independent contractors. Per the terms of service, the passengers are OUR customers, and we agree to charge Uber's rates. So to begin with the total fare is OURS. In exchange for access to the app, we agree in the TOS to pay Uber a service fee, which used to be a fixed 20-25%. Now that service fee that WE pay to Uber is highly variable. That's the real problem.
> 
> The first shady thing Uber does is to infer to the passengers that their Upfront Price is based on the actual time and miles of their trip. It is NOT. So the passenger ends up paying way more on many trips than if it was a straight time and miles plus booking fee calculation. The next shady thing Uber does is to direct drivers to take the shortest miles route possible, to minimize driver earnings. The difference between the inflated price the passenger pays and the minimized driver earnings is thrown into the service fee. Uber is essentially tricking drivers into cheating themselves with the navigation directions they send us. Unless we take the time to use Google Maps or Waze and find the longest mile route to each destination, Uber keeps skimming from us. It's OUR money that we are voluntarily giving away to Uber with each trip.
> 
> This is exactly what they do on a regular basis. Unfortunately for the passengers they have no way to reduce their fare by suggesting a shorter route. But at least a smart driver can find a higher miles route that still gets the passenger there in a similar time, so at least the driver can collect as much as possible of the inflated fare.


Moderator Michael-Cleveland posted an excerpt of the uber driver contract, and it says the fares uber charges are "default fares" to be used if a fare is not negotiated between the driver and pax.

One of the three scenarios below explains why uber put that provision into the contract...

1) Independent contractors are supposed to set the rates for their work

2) Uber mandating rates would make them a transportation company, not a technology company

3) Both 1 and 2

I say answer number three


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> No, so I drove differently to be profitable. Then I stopped driving. If its bad: stop. Thats the only way Uber will truly know what theyre doing can hurt them. With drivers continuing to accept it, that tells Uber theres nothing wrong.


Uber does not rely on driver commitment. Most drivers drop out after about two months. It's built into their business model.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

You can only drive one car at a time.

The same way that this applies on the road -- you have no control over the bad driver you're sharing the road with; you can only drive _your_ car in such a way to protect it and yourself -- it applies to your relationship with Uber.

And yet, over and over again (and I'm not excluding myself here), we see people in this forum trying to start lobby groups, circulate petitions, threatening to file lawsuits against Uber (which might work in .CA, but almost never anywhere else), coming up with ideas on how the company could be better run, etc.

But none of us can drive _that_ car. Only the one that you're in. What can _you_ do to improve _your_ conditions? What do you actually have control over?

You're not going to change Uber or Lyft. You can only change yourself and what you do. Drive for them in accordance with the agreement you signed, or don't drive at all. If enough people did this, U/L would either change or die. Natural selection.

Driving for U/L is being in an abusive relationship. Just because you are given an trinket after each beating, it doesn't mean it doesn't take its toll on you. The cycle must be broken entirely for anything to change.

Otherwise, feel free to continue to stay with the devil you know.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

jazzapt said:


> Is short, as always, we drivers get paid 75% or 80% of the market fares (minus fees), not 75% to 80% of what the rider pays.


 and this is exactly where the problem lies. No, it's not "*as always *_we drivers get paid 75% or 80% of the market fares (minus fees), not 75% to 80% of what the rider pays_" . We *did* used to get paid 75% or 80% of what the rider paid. In conjunction with 75% or 80% of Market rates. That's because they used to be the same. The Riders fare was based solely on Market rates.

The set rates you see in the passenger app, those are only the set rates if the trip is to go back to the old miles and minutes calculation. _*IF*_ the trip goes back to that calculation . . . _*IF.*_
Otherwise those set rates are non applicable to the fair quoted now days. Upfront pricing has a spin off version called route based pricing. They have admitted there are no set rates anymore for passengers. They have admitted they charge whatever they feel the passengers willing to pay at the time. Two people can be going the exact same distance from the same starting point and be charged differently depending on the neighborhood they go to. Hence the fact they followed passenger for 5 minutes, after ending their trips . . . To collect demographics people

where the 75% or 80% played a vital role is when it comes to it comes to Surge. When our agreement stated the dollar amount and percentage, it was like a checks and balance system. when it surged, the percentage part guaranteed we were to get 80% of that surge. Now without the percentage aspect, they can surge it at 5x and we are not guaranteed any of that money.

Anyone who is on board with this new pricing model and says *we still get paid the same, *makes me laugh. do you honestly feel like you're making as much money as you were prior to the change ? How many times have passengers stated something along the lines of, wow you guys must be busy tonight the price is higher than normal or I knew something was going on by the price they charged me. Wonder why the surge amounts and surge areas have diminished? Well of course they have. Why would they even inform us of surge pricing going on? We're not entitled to any of it and all it will do is piss us off

So yes, our base rates are the same but in regards to the areas where we used to make Bank, done deal. Those days are over. Uber is now making our 80% and we are now making their 20%. One thing about those tables... They always turn

And no this thread should not be put as a sticky because it's not correct information


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## Daisy&Cream (Jan 27, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> and this is exactly where the problem lies. No, it's not "*as always *_we drivers get paid 75% or 80% of the market fares (minus fees), not 75% to 80% of what the rider pays_" . We *did* used to get paid 75% or 80% of what the rider paid. In conjunction with 75% or 80% of Market rates. That's because they used to be the same. The Riders fare was based solely on Market rates.
> 
> The set rates you see in the passenger app, those are only the set rates if the trip is to go back to the old miles and minutes calculation. _*IF*_ the trip goes back to that calculation . . . _*IF.*_
> Otherwise those set rates are non applicable to the fair quoted now days. Upfront pricing has a spin off version called route based pricing. They have admitted there are no set rates anymore for passengers. They have admitted they charge whatever they feel the passengers willing to pay at the time. Two people can be going the exact same distance from the same starting point and be charged differently depending on the neighborhood they go to. Hence the fact they followed passenger for 5 minutes, after ending their trips . . . To collect demographics people
> ...


Hi Daisy, I'm Daisy .

I like your reasoning! i approve this message


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Daisy&Cream said:


> Hi Daisy, I'm Daisy .
> 
> I like your reasoning! i approve this message


How can people NOT support Double D's?


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

jazzapt said:


> Completely agree. And that is worth about. But this is more related to those who still look at their fares and expect to see that they are getting paid 75% of what pax paid.
> 
> Ditto. However there are other ways they work to reduce driver pay (like suppressing surge) that is worth getting worked up about. But the pay process has not changed one bit.


Every time gas prices increase and your pay per mile doesn't increase with it it's just as if Uber reduced your pay per ride. And lately prices have been doing nothing but going up.


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## tcaud (Jul 28, 2017)

Gas prices are expected to hit $100/barrel next year. Thank Trump and his cozy relationship to the Saudis...

It's never been a better time to buy a hybrid. Owner of Bumblebee Batteries gives to Human Rights Campaign. Buy a hybrid battery... it's like buying gas by the bushel (and at a discount). And Big Oil doesn't see a penny.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Coachman said:


> That's because the customer was charged per mile and minute. And if the fare went up, our pay went up. So Uber figured out a backhanded way to raise the fare while keeping our pay the same. Are you okay with that?


Back handed is the Uber Way !


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

jazzapt said:


> When I open the Uber app as a Pax and put in destination, I get up upfront fare. On that upfront fare is an "Info" icon. If I click on it, it gives a breakdown of the charges that SHOULD determine my fare.
> 
> View attachment 239523
> 
> ...


The reason for the extra $4-$13 per fare is that Uber usually charges pax a slight surge that never gets passed to the driver. It's usually like 1.1x or 1.2x but of course they pay us base

Next time check the numbers and you will find the difference is approx a 1.1x-1.2x surge


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## Daisy&Cream (Jan 27, 2018)

Daisey77 said:


> How can people NOT support Double D's?


Hahaha! You're sleek!


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## tcaud (Jul 28, 2017)

The real problem with riders getting charged more is that they will tip less often. This is what Uber has been working on: ways to get more of the money that a rider is willing to spend on a trip directly into their pockets. See also Uber Eats time component. It's also precisely the reason that Uber does not reveal the actual fare price to the driver: the idea is to fool the driver into not realizing that they are being maneuvered out of their tip.



Garbage Plate said:


> Yes Uber and Lyft can charge the customer as much as they want and pay us as little as possible. And I agreed to their terms. Here's my problem. These 2 companies have an oligarchy. Where's the competition? It costs $100,000 to get a TNC license in New York State. One Hundred Thousand F'ing Dollars. And 60 grand to renew every year. Who the F came up with those numbers and who wrote the law? I have my suspicions. The license should be no higher than starting any other business. This is keeping other startups from getting into this business.


That's called a barrier to entry. It's the spark of an antitrust suit. See Microsoft vs Sun/Netscape.

Best way to compete against them would be to use FB groups to solicit rideshare. Schedule rides ahead of time. They pay ahead of time thru paypal. If you don't show up, you refund their money plus a fee, so they know you're good. If the state has anything to say about that, then off to court we go. Pretty plain barrier to entry, easy to investigate, tie to lobbyists and overturn. In Ohio it's a $5k annual fee, paid basically by Uber and Lyft only, and nobody is actually doing any actual work at state with respect to it. It's a naked attempt to force small operators out.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

tcaud said:


> The real problem with riders getting charged more is that they will tip less often. This is what Uber has been working on: ways to get more of the money that a rider is willing to spend on a trip directly into their pockets. See also Uber Eats time component. It's also precisely the reason that Uber does not reveal the actual fare price to the driver: the idea is to fool the driver into not realizing that they are being maneuvered out of their tip.
> 
> That's called a barrier to entry. It's the spark of an antitrust suit. See Microsoft vs Sun/Netscape.
> 
> Best way to compete against them would be to use FB groups to solicit rideshare. Schedule rides ahead of time. They pay ahead of time thru paypal. If you don't show up, you refund their money plus a fee, so they know you're good. If the state has anything to say about that, then off to court we go. Pretty plain barrier to entry, easy to investigate, tie to lobbyists and overturn. In Ohio it's a $5k annual fee, paid basically by Uber and Lyft only, and nobody is actually doing any actual work at state with respect to it. It's a naked attempt to force small operators out.


If the govt (local,county,state,federal) would enforce the laws on independent contractors, that would result in massive improvement in our pay and treatment by fuber and gryft.

Fuber's driver contract has all kinds of provisions that are in accordance of independent contractor laws.

Their contract even states drivers and pax can negotiate the fare, and drivers use the uber as a "lead generator" for their own business, which means drivers can give pax their business card and try to recruit them away from uber.

The problem is the contract is a LIE.

If drivers were to actually DO the things the contract says they can do, they'd be fired immediately.

A driver that sets their own fare would be gone in a second, yet the contract says it can be done.

The same applies to drivers who try to steer pax to their own livery business. If caught, they'd be gone too.

Instead, fuber openly violates their contract, and dares drivers to try to stop them.

Govt intervention is the only hope drivers have.


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## Michael1230nj (Jun 23, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


Well like you said At the risk of sounding like a Shill.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> If the govt (local,county,state,federal) would enforce the laws on independent contractors, that would result in massive improvement in our pay and treatment by fuber and gryft.
> 
> Fuber's driver contract has all kinds of provisions that are in accordance of independent contractor laws.
> 
> ...


If you noticed, the contract says the driver can negotiate their own rates, but only as long as it's for a LOWER amount. LoL we can't negotiate higher!


tcaud said:


> Gas prices are expected to hit $100/barrel next year. Thank Trump and his cozy relationship to the Saudis...
> 
> It's never been a better time to buy a hybrid. Owner of Bumblebee Batteries gives to Human Rights Campaign. Buy a hybrid battery... it's like buying gas by the bushel (and at a discount). And Big Oil doesn't see a penny.


 And what does that break down to gallon wise? Lol



tcaud said:


> The real problem with riders getting charged more is that they will tip less often.


 besides tips, it definitely can affect our rating too. Some passengers can't seem to process in differentiate who is at fault for what. If Uber is charging them 3x the rate, the passenger is usually annoyed and out of frustration they low-rate us. Even if they don't directly take it out on us, them being in a bad mood, creates tension on the ride and we all know how those tension-filled rides end period with bad ratings


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## moJohoJo (Feb 19, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


Where i live Uber's cut has been up to 70 % .


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Kodyhead said:


> You guys should appreciate all the things these companies like uber and lyft do. There is a lot of costs and expenses drivers dont know, aware or have any clue about like rape lawsuits lol


or paying off the family of the woman the driverless car killed.... that one went away really fast!


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## moJohoJo (Feb 19, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY, UBER IS RIPPING DRIVERS OFF AT THE TUNE OF 55 to 70 % CUT > IT'S CALLED A BREACH OF CONTRACT .


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

moJohoJo said:


> I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY, UBER IS RIPPING DRIVERS OFF AT THE TUNE OF 55 to 70 % CUT > IT'S CALLED A BREACH OF CONTRACT .


Unfortunately shouting doesn't make it so. Please refer back to the May 2017 TOS you agreed to. By the way, did you bother to read it in the first place and opt out of binding arbitration?


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## Brian G. (Jul 5, 2016)

I just wish us drivers who kinda like this gig could do something about this. I'm letting all paxs who are willing to listen to try taking cabs more often because they maybe cheaper meaning fuber and wiff and charging whatever they want to the pax.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

When I ran my cab company, I took 50%.


...but I owned, maintained, and insured the cabs.
Paying 50% of the fare to dispatch as an owner operator is complete insanity.


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## Duber12 (Dec 18, 2015)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


When the rider pays more, we get tipped less.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

Brian G. said:


> I just wish us drivers who kinda like this gig could do something about this. I'm letting all paxs who are willing to listen to try taking cabs more often because they maybe cheaper meaning fuber and wiff and charging whatever they want to the pax.


Some pax sympathize but they won't stop using the service. They're all addicted to easy access to cheap rides.


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## Brian G. (Jul 5, 2016)

REX HAVOC said:


> Some pax sympathize but they won't stop using the service. They're all addicted to easy access to cheap rides.


Exactly like any drug street or pharma!! Sad!


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.


This is the victim blaming spurious logic that Libertarians always give. If a corporation is screwing you, it's the victim's fault for allowing it to happen. That logic would work if we had parity at the bargaining table, such as a Union or some unified representation, but that is not the case. Not everyone has the luxury of quitting (not immediately, for many people ), and knowing that, a corporation can, and do, exploit workers.

When I signed up with Uber, I agreed to 80% of $1.90 per mile. They gradually lowered it to an unlivable wage. Since, due to my own terrible circumstances, cannot quit that easily ( though I did switch to Lyft, but they are only slightly better ) I cannot quit ridesharing, for now, but I'm working on it. In the mean time, that does not give Uber the right to exploit drivers.



henrygates said:


> In other words he's saying exploiting workers is okay because the worker can just find another job if they don't like it.
> 
> That's why we ended up with unions.


Which corporations, and repubs are working day and night to destroy unions. Unions have far less strength than they did when I was a child.



Duber12 said:


> When the rider pays more, we get tipped less.


I'd rather have 55% of $3 per mile and no tips than 55% of $1.50 per mile, and a tip 1/10th of the time.

However, it's not true. At taxi rates, before Uber existed, I made more per mile and more tips, twice the amount on both, than I do today.

Waters in high end restaurants make far more tips than in tin fork restaurants. Why should it be any different with rideshare? We are marketing outselves as the Walmart of transportation, and so we get more of the bus and shuttle crowd whereas taxis got that a lot less. Riding in a taxi was never supposed to be about cheap transportation. It's the convenience that was the selling point, not the price.

Uber decided to sell price, and the sad thing is, it never really needed to.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

You know who else is unhappy with Uber's cut? NYC. See thread in News, they are considering requiring minimum pay for drivers. Along with Seattle and Portland, and who knows how many other markets.


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## 3.75 (Sep 29, 2017)

CJfrom619 said:


> How are riders getting ripped off? There's a reason rideshare is so popular is because it gives people an affordable means a transportation.


When Uber marketed themselves as "cheaper than a cab", and for a while it was true, people expected the low fares. Now, Uber can be just as expensive as a cab _without _surge. Take for example the DC market, where trips starting from the airport closest to the city (DCA) are almost in line with that of a cab. DCA to Bethesda, Maryland is a $36-$55 charge from Uber to a rider. The cab driver charges $40-$55 to go to the same destination. Do you see the issue there? Why should I as a rider prefer Uber if a cab does the same job cheaper. The cab is literally waiting at the front door, whereas Uber cars take at least 7 minutes to arrive.

Actually, Uber is aware of this and because this specific airport surges from time to time, they have offset the surge zone to the Potomac river. Conveniently for Uber, DCA is on a peninsula on the Virginia side of the DC metro area. DC and VA area separated by the rivee. Even more convenient, across the water from DCA in DC is Bolling JBAB. Uber is banned in Bolling and can't enter. Guess where Uber places DCA surge.

If you guessed the Potomac and Bolling, you would be right. This is how Uber not only scams the riders, but the drivers as well. It would be no surprise that Uber is charging the pax the surge in the water while giving the driver a base rate trip. Riders no longer have to acknowledge the surge multiplier, they are simply explained that Uber is experiencing a higher demand than normal.



Gilby said:


> *Do you feel fairly compensated for the work that you do?*


All politics of IC work aside, this is the main problem.

A long trip is satisfying, but if you live in a heavily congrested area like DC, where it takes an hour to travel through it to get into Maryland, that's when the pay is not fairly compensating the work. Working within DC city limits, you can do 4 trips in an hour tops, but it takes 6 minutes to go a mile, on a good day. We get paid 12 cents a minute. Our mileage is paid at 81 cents a minute. On average, it takes 15 minutes to go 3 miles. Our minimum fare pay is $3.75, which is the same as a cancel fee. To go those 3 miles, we get paid $2.43. For the grueling 15 minutes that it takes to drive about 10 city blocks, we get paid $1.80. We make $5 including our 86 cent drop/base rate. Alternatively, driving for 15 minutes in the suburbs yields us us closer to $10, if not more because the speed limit is higher, the traffic is less, meaning we can go further in the same amount of time. Why should we be penalized for being in a higher demand area. The most one can realistically make working in the city is $15 an hour. I can make $50 in that same hour going from the airport in the exburbs (IAD) to Laurel, Maryland.

I'm not saying I should be paid less for traveling further, but our time should be more valued than 12 cents a minute. A DC cab's time is valued at 40 cents a minute. A DC cab can still make money while enduring the traffic mess within the city. We can't. Our miles are worth more than our time.

All this is gross revenue too, remember that. If I made $15 an hour, how much can I set aside for repairs of the car? How much can I set aside for the fuel I just spent. My car realistically gets 20mpg in aggressive city driving, which in a city like DC, you have to be aggressive with the accelerator in certain situations. Highway driving, I'm getting 26mpg. That's a big difference in how much i can go with a tank of gas.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> Everything you said pretty much became worthless to me after I read that.
> 
> Just like you said drivers are getting paid what they agreed to, riders are getting charged what they agreed to.
> 
> ...


The drivers are the ones getting screwed.



Oscar Levant said:


> This is the victim blaming spurious logic that Libertarians always give. If a corporation is screwing you, it's the victim's fault for allowing it to happen. That logic would work if we had parity at the bargaining table, such as a Union or some unified representation, but that is not the case. Not everyone has the luxury of quitting (not immediately, for many people ), and knowing that, a corporation can, and do, exploit workers.
> 
> When I signed up with Uber, I agreed to 80% of $1.90 per mile. They gradually lowered it to an unlivable wage. Since, due to my own terrible circumstances, cannot quit that easily ( though I did switch to Lyft, but they are only slightly better ) I cannot quit ridesharing, for now, but I'm working on it. In the mean time, that does not give Uber the right to exploit drivers.
> 
> ...


Perpetually high rates of Third World immigration, the result of the 1965 Immigration and Reform Act, have not only made empowered uber to exploit their drivers, it has also weakened the unions.

It's no accident that real wages began to decline in the 1970s, when the massive influx of immigration got rolling and continues to this day.

Liberal Democrat Barbara Jordan, appointed by Bill Clinton as Chairperson of the US Commission of Immigration Reform, said that Third World Immigration was harming American workers.

Both Samuel Gompers and Cesar Chavez bitterly complained that high rates of immigration was disastrous for unions.

Continued high rates of Third World immigration provides uber with a virtually limitless supply of new signups to replace the 96% of drivers who quit every year.

That's the real source of uber's power over its drivers.

Cut off that supply, and uber's exploitation of drivers would end very quickly.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Fauxknight said:


> Actually it is part of what you agreed to be paid. Uber gets its booking fee and 20-25% of the fare. Nothing in there says they can raise the fare and take the excess. It's part of the fare, they should only get their agreed upon commission.
> 
> Of course if we got paid off the full upfront we could get bit in the rear as well here and there, occasionally they do underestimate the actual (legit non-longhaul) trip.


Perhaps we should talk about the fact that the booking fee has tripled in my market? And the minimum trip now pays less, simply because the booking fee is taken out before my commission. So although the rates haven't gone down recently, the minimum I make has. Not this last time as they actually raised what the pax pay, but in the past my minimum trip pay went down almost a dollar when the pax paid the same but the booking fee went up.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

moJohoJo said:


> I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY, UBER IS RIPPING DRIVERS OFF AT THE TUNE OF 55 to 70 % CUT > IT'S CALLED A BREACH OF CONTRACT .


 Unfortunately, since we signed the new agreement 5/17, it's not Breach of Contract. Now, your fares from when they first implemented upfront pricing, up to the date you signed the new agreement, that's Breach of Contract


Fuzzyelvis said:


> Perhaps we should talk about the fact that the booking fee has tripled in my market? And the minimum trip now pays less, simply because the booking fee is taken out before my commission. So although the rates haven't gone down recently, the minimum I make has. Not this last time as they actually raised what the pax pay, but in the past my minimum trip pay went down almost a dollar when the pax paid the same but the booking fee went up.


But we aren't off commission anymore. We have set rates. So I don't understand how the service fee affects your payout


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


My BIGGEST disappointment with this thread is it's failure to address minimum-wage. Every other company in the United States is required to pay their employees a minimum-wage, but Uber and Lyft continue to get a free pass (and operate in a gray area). They exhibit too much control over the entire process, and it's not fair to say, "If you don't like it, quit." All that does is say, "Hey, Uber and Lyft, keep doing what you're doing," which gives other companies the right to do the same thing. Presently, gross bookings aren't even adding up to minimum-wage on my end.

Now, to be fair, you have every right to say you're fine with "upfront pricing," I just wish the argument would focus on whether or not this "pricing" is putting a generation of people in poverty.


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## AllGold (Sep 16, 2016)

I'm wondering if the best approach might be for a lot of us, both drivers and passengers, to start complaining to our state attorneys general. It is their job to be a consumer advocate for the people of their state. Drivers and passengers are both consumers in this case and both are getting ripped off, with no good way to take on a multi-$billion corporation.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Uber has always stated that they are not a Transportation company. That they are only an App which facilitates connecting the Rider with the Driver (who is the Transportation Provider).

Also that they do not "charge" the Rider directly but that they only facilitate payment processing of the Fare charged by "the Driver"and on behalf of the Driver.

If the above is trues re Uber's description of their services, only an App & Payment Processor, what is the legal definition of the "Surcharge (Upfront Pricing Extra Cheese)" Uber takes from the Total Rider Fare Payout (Miles + Time + Booking Fee + Surge + Uber Upfront Pricing Surcharge)?

I am just so so confused.


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## actsholy (Jul 3, 2018)

reg barclay said:


> I agree with you that rates in many places are too low. However as far as actual 'cuts' are concerned, (I don't know about your market but) where I drive there haven't been any cuts since the infamous cuts of Jan 2016. In fact rates in NJ have inched back up a few times since then (albeit not by a massive amount).


What are they?


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## Michael1230nj (Jun 23, 2017)

You wake up with Bills maybe Rent Due or Mortgage. Perhaps You have Kids and are just trying to get by. And When you attempt to Sign on you are Confronted with a Message New Deal! We here at Uber are going to separate you from the Pricing Structure and Hose you even worse then we have in the Past. When will this begin?? Right Now.——- This Company is a Blood Sucking Parasite in the midst of pulling off a Ponzi Scheme the Drivers are Victums. Don’t hate the Players hate the Game.


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## UberLady10001 (Nov 4, 2017)

I honestly can't believe their are so many here who are saying it's okay to screw over their customers as long as they get thrown a few peanuts. As an independent businesswoman (not an employee) when one of my "partners" starts screwing over my customers and taking a bigger cut and ripping off my customers off HECK YEAH I'm upset about it.


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## R_I_C_O (Jul 3, 2018)

CJfrom619 said:


> How are riders getting ripped off? There's a reason rideshare is so popular is because it gives people an affordable means a transportation.


uber charges them for the faster safer more expensive toll route, then on the drivers app has their gps take the slower longer cheaper route & since its upfront they keep the difference AND collected a toll charge from a rider while not giving the rider use of the toll road

thats being RIPPED OFF its a crime & if done in multiple states RACKETEERING i have hundreds of screenshot prooving this, time stamped driver app route highlighted and fare details, then on my app time stamped telling me to go a route thats not the one they were charged for

the audacity & gall that someone at uber actually thinks the deserver 50-90% of fares or more on minimum fares than the driver make is beyond absurd, humans at this company actually think they deserve $4.40 on a minimum fare while paying the driver $4 which means $2, they didnt risk any life, use any fuel this is literally SPITTING in their drivers face EVERY ride & LITERALLY STEALING from them, they do not care

if all they are is a "tech" company the only thing they entitiled to is the booking fee since they're not a cab or taxi company why do they have any input at all

1965-1985 rates & 1971 minimum fares is BEYOND ILLEGAL & EVIL to the core

where is the government, labor department, police, feds, journalists? why is NOBODY doing anything about literal HUMAN TRAFFICKING & modern day SLAVERY?

why does anyone find this acceptable?

Uber/lyft charge
$11,$12,$13,$14,$15

drivers get $10 minimum period
$1.50 a mile .30 a minute
NATIONWIDE

until then its an evil Ponzi scam

move near or only pick up hotel addresses 30+ miles from the airport is the uber lottery location location location

ignore all 5+ minutes away & all 4.7s or less and half of 5s since now they most likely minors or previously banned resigning up

1 star all non cash tippers who dont go farther than 10 miles & request an unmatch from them keep acceptance rate below 10% & keep cancls in the 20s & give every oumze of what a $2 experience is to riders when having to take those rides when bringing down your cancel rate

4% win the game 96% fail at this game


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Trump Economics said:


> My BIGGEST disappointment with this thread is it's failure to address minimum-wage. Every other company in the United States is required to pay their employees a minimum-wage, but Uber and Lyft continue to get a free pass (and operate in a gray area).


Wake up. You are not an employee. You have no hourly wage.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Wake up. You are not an employee. You have no hourly wage.


That's telling me.


----------



## Jason Wilson (Oct 20, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


Great post and you cleared something up for me. I wasn't sure about the billing. As in, if I drove slow, or took a longer route. How that would affect the final bill. So it appears as if a rider asks to go through the drive through, it will add 5 minutes or so to the trip. So now if the upfront pricing quoted them $20, their bill will be a couple dollars more right? Since a few minutes were added during the trip?


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> The drivers are the ones getting screwed.
> 
> Perpetually high rates of Third World immigration, the result of the 1965 Immigration and Reform Act, have not only made empowered uber to exploit their drivers, it has also weakened the unions.
> It's no accident that real wages began to decline in the 1970s, when the massive influx of immigration got rolling and continues to this day.
> ...


Then why the following: In February 2000, the Executive Council of the American Federation of Labor - Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO) announced that it was changing its historic position --- it would now support expanded immigration, lenient enforcement of immigration laws, and the legislative agenda of immigrants In the months that followed, AFL-CIO officials declared that the organization was now "championing immigrant rights as a strategic move to make immigrants more enthusiastic about joining unions."


> Continued high rates of Third World immigration provides uber with a virtually limitless supply of new signups to replace the 96% of drivers who quit every year.


I"m sure the immigrants would be willing to join a union, if one would come to Uber, problem solved.


> That's the real source of uber's power over its drivers.
> 
> Cut off that supply, and uber's exploitation of drivers would end very quickly.


There is no way America is going to stop immigration, it has been the cornerstone of Americanism since America's inception, it's engraved on the Statue of Liberty. Blaming our problems on immigration would be like blaming problems in society on the Constitution arising out of the fact that the Constitution doesn't address a particular issue. The framers of the Constitution could not possibly address every issue that would arise in America many years hence. You are, in essence, blaming America for being American. You singled out "Third World immigration", which has racist overtones. there is no way that idea is going to fly. Obama's heritage was from a third world. You're talking nonsense.

It's not really a valid argument. We can't stop immigration for these reasons, but we can improve the attractivenesss of unions.

There's your solution.


----------



## R_I_C_O (Jul 3, 2018)

Coachman said:


> Wake up. You are not an employee. You have no hourly wage.


until i can cancel rides that do not cover my costs(i.e. 80+% of em) so basically ALL rides not going more than 10 miles, without repercussions of being fired(i.e. deactivated) uber drivers ARE EMPLOYEES period, they ate coercing me into providing free labor period

until SOME details are shown to drivers BEFORE accepting & entering into a blank contract uber drivers are EMPLOYEES

uber/lyft hiding 99% of the details is ridiculous we dont care about destination for the most part we care about being paid over costs. drivers dont even know what direction the pick up address is anymore, its so fraudulent since gas prices went up all my locations that were 3 or 7 minutes away are now 1 or 4 minutes away, if a ping comes from a location & comes back to you its magically a few minutes & a mile & a half closer NEWSFLASH i get rides from my couch, my couch didn't move a mile in a half I HAVE hundreds if not thousands of screenshots because all i do now is screenshot 90+% of the rides I now have to avoid because they are nothing but coerced labor attempts(i.e. fits the definition of slavery)

show the approx fare or miles/minutes/direction destination is while $4 rides are EVIL & ILLEGAL & amything under $10 is an auto 1star & unmatch request you know what? ill still accept one if i need to run errands or headed in that direction, maybe i live downtown so if going to sit in traffic might as well accept that ride everyone cancelling on because its rush hour the destination is downtown, it will take am hour & pay $8 lmao otherwise that person gets cancelled on 5 times till some loser so desperate for 2 tacos drives 15 minutes to get them and spends an hour earning $5 after costs if hes lucky & fails like 96% of drivers by design

its the new slavery get the dumb & desperate

its mind boggling they getting away with this, purposefully made maps worse twice ON PURPOSE if you drive for pings its actually DANGEROUS instead of the quick 1 second distraction drivers used to have seeing the address & instantly knowing just passed the exit, or requires a uturn, or a million other legit reasons to ignore a request, it does some evil view of the globe zooming out from africa like i give 2 doo doos about any part of the globe showing but my immediate area, then gets blurry, spins around so you dont know what direction is, all to trick you into accepting them, then doh gotta cancel once you see it's a no pick up address or wrong way...like thats a good experience, one that probably has caused accidents or even death

they label a trip "premium" pay you a literal PENNY maybe 12 of em to drive an extra 5 miles then in accounting calls it a long pick up fee

they MURDERED a homeless woman still crickets

no one who made it past 3rd grades thinks were "independent contractors" unless they are receiving money(i.e. bribes donations lobbying)

anything less than $10 per ride is ILLEGAL period $4 is EVIL & ILLEGAL

again HOW is this compamy able to operate & why isnt everyone involved in JAIL?

seriously this is bizzaro it so corrupt

80+% of the dam ride requests dont cover costs all FREE EXPLOITED LABOR & they allowed to operate to the point every 5th car on the road has some idiot promoting their evil illegal brand

WHAT LAW states you have to market a corporate brand while OFF THE CLOCK NOT BEING PAID? do the pizza guys & delivery shops mandate drivers leave their logo suction cupped to the roof when they at home or off the clock? but the lemmings proudly show everyone they suck at math & are in desperate need for tacos for some reason its a disease out there a virus of cars that shouldn't be on the road because poor people, junkies, drunks, people with multiple duis, drug runners, prostitutes, club rats are NOT supposed to have chauferes & private drivers, youre NOT supposed to take cabs daily or regularly for a reason well maybe prostitutes but i dont respect prostitutes that dont order xl, select,black they need better management a select or black drivers a potential client ; ) i kid i kid

enjoy the ponzi while it lasts bailed out or bought out for pennies on the dollar

government needs to shut it down nationalize it treat it as a useful jobs program, pass a background check over 21 with a car you always have a job

charge $10-15 per ride
drivers gets a minimum $10
$1.50 a mile .30 a minute
10pm-6am .25 a mile premium
national holidays double

take they booking fee for costs & probably operate at a profit

in return they have a backdoor on everyones movements with the app on the phone, facial recognition database of every driver etc etc etc

win win

uber/lyft have shown they are INHUMAN INHUMANE EVIL against anything positive truly disgusting corporate citizens gas chambers inc was a better corporate citizen


----------



## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

If you wait for someone else to fix it, whether it's the company or the government, you will never be happy!



R_I_C_O said:


> its the new slavery get the dumb & desperate


What does that imply you, as being one of their drivers?



R_I_C_O said:


> until SOME details are shown to drivers BEFORE accepting & entering into a blank contract uber drivers are EMPLOYEES


You entered an agreement that you agreed to be an independent contractor. Part of the agreement is, if you accept a ping, you are agreeing to drive them and will gross anywhere between $2.62 and $300. Now you are mad, about the mere fact you are an independent contractor. You probably should move on.



R_I_C_O said:


> its mind boggling they getting away with this, purposefully made maps worse twice ON PURPOSE if you drive for pings its actually DANGEROUS instead of the quick 1 second distraction drivers used to have seeing the address & instantly knowing just passed the exit, or requires a uturn, or a million other legit reasons to ignore a request, it does some evil view of the globe zooming out from africa like i give 2 doo doos about any part of the globe showing but my immediate area, then gets blurry, spins around so you dont know what direction is, all to trick you into accepting them, then doh gotta cancel once you see it's a no pick up address or wrong way...like thats a good experience, one that probably has caused accidents or even death


If accepting pings while driving is to much for you to handle, log off while driving. This is good, you are recognizing a safety issue, and I would not want you to get into an accident!


R_I_C_O said:


> they label a trip "premium" pay you a literal PENNY maybe 12 of em to drive an extra 5 miles then in accounting calls it a long pick up fee
> 
> they MURDERED a homeless woman still crickets
> 
> ...


And millions of drivers keep doing it. If the bad outweighed the good, in each drivers view, they wouldn't be there.



R_I_C_O said:


> 80+% of the dam ride requests dont cover costs all FREE EXPLOITED LABOR & they allowed to operate to the point every 5th car on the road has some idiot promoting their evil illegal brand


Are you one of them?



R_I_C_O said:


> WHAT LAW states you have to market a corporate brand while OFF THE CLOCK NOT BEING PAID?


Where does U/L say you must display trade dress offline?



R_I_C_O said:


> enjoy the ponzi while it lasts bailed out or bought out for pennies on the dollar


Their ponzi probably wont last. Focus on yourself. Move on if you see thats the best option.



R_I_C_O said:


> government needs to shut it down nationalize it treat it as a useful jobs program, pass a background check over 21 with a car you always have a job


Socialism.



R_I_C_O said:


> charge $10-15 per ride
> drivers gets a minimum $10
> $1.50 a mile .30 a minute
> 10pm-6am .25 a mile premium
> national holidays double


Great go start your own rideshare company. Cab company.


R_I_C_O said:


> uber/lyft have shown they are INHUMAN INHUMANE EVIL against anything positive truly disgusting corporate citizens gas chambers inc was a better corporate citizen


You know whats INHUMAN INHUMANE EVIL is digging ditches in the hot sweaty summer for minimum wage. While the evil corporate overlords tough it out in their yachts. Wait, no! The government should nationalize ditch digging as a useful jobs program! That will fix everything!

_You need to stop moping and the self pity, and take control of your life. No ones making you do this. _


----------



## R_I_C_O (Jul 3, 2018)

doyousensehumor said:


> If you wait for someone else to fix it, whether it's the company or the government, you will never be happy!
> 
> What does that imply what you as being one of their drivers?
> 
> ...


doesnt mean anything 4% succeed & actually do quite well ; )

not an "independent contractor" just because they use the words, illegal terms in contracts arent binding, they arent a "tech" company theyre a cab company, its not "ride sharing" its a cab company, a penny hasn't been "premium" in literally 100+ years, im also not a "partner" just because a company says words it doesn't mean theyre using them correctly

i only accept pings from my bed/couch my queue is 35+ miles away from an airport near lots of hotels & i use smart tint for the tolls so $44-$74 an hour after gas i ignore all pings on my dead heads 90% of my business is 5 hotels i moved to the location based on this, others arent as fortunate im trying to feel bad for them imma be alright

96% of those millions fail BY DESIGN they wouldnt fail if they were paid a legal wage should only confirm theres millions of desperate exploitable people (its mainly immigrants & seniors now) so if you endorse elder abuse your choice i suppose

nope 1st day my trade dress been in center console hasnt moved in 3+ years

certain areas state trade dress has to be shown when apps online, i think only time you should show it is when getting paid with a rider but id still never show it

50K a year on 3ish hours a day driving im straight with this option i learned to Pimp it, used to wake & bake for squawk box & first take only thing uber did is make me start smoking a few hours later

you call it socialism i call it shutting down acrimunal orginization, seizing its assets & using them for good, they have an opportunity they're using it for evil& burning $9000 a minute for no purpose because its not profit, its not to benefit labor, it's not to benefit riders, self driving branded ubers is delusional, mars is delusional, flying cars is delusional theyre not interested in anything but destroying lives & industries

id love to start my own unfortunately im not one of the 1500 people on the planet that can burn 12 million dollars per day, cant throw away 4+ billy this year to compete, too small to succeed baby, but best believe if i had 6 months of uber burn to burn i would but guess what cant compete with free, if my app charges actual costs $10+ & the other app illegally offers a predatory 1971 rate well duh, i dont eat fast food but if subway was selling $5 foot longs for a dollar id probably eat there 4 times a day lmao, not poor peoples fault for using an app to steal its human nature

when i fill out a ditch digging application they tell me how much ill be making when to show up & when i can leave BY LAW they have to pay me a minimum wages & some benefits people died so i could benefit from, when i show up they dont say this hour were not going to pay you, a few hours well pay you minimum wage, & a few hour maybe over if you lucky & in the right place at right time & do these 3 things in a row & change the agreement every few months after a court forces them too lmao

and dont give me the were independent contractor crap were NOT were treated like employees and illegally labled ics

you need to stop deciphering tone from text like a child, no ones moping, whining complaining only posting facts youre free to do whatever with them including justifying their actions, no ones forcing me forgive me for having empathy for those i know not in my situation that become the 96%, they my competition i shouldn't care but i do its disgusting & beyond blatant, madoff is super jealous in no way is this a legitimate company....they have what half a billion+ in fines & settlements, 13+ billion lost in almost 10 years, last one 4+ billion alone, spent 100K per bike for bime "sharing" no need to see what happened in china on those companies lol, no profit, no one in their right mind thinks a 50+K self driving car that needs maintenance, fueling, storing, etc is going to be cheaper than paying grandpa simpson or apu 2 tacos in a 7K Corolla, so if they never raise rates they'll never profit & if they raise em to actual costs tbere goes all the poor peoples subsidized rides its a ponzi scam i kno & realize what it is

just out in the open paying $2 rides that are $7+ away from minimum wage geez never stated it would fix anything

if you dont see ubers pattern of illegal activity its very well documented i get it if you dont care thats a choice but its not a secret

BTW digging ditches is honest work that rewards it with an honest days pay

thats all drivers really want

96% are not failing because they are being paid over costs lmao its free coerced unpaid labor & if you read a dictionary that fits the definition of modern day slavery not hyperbole just bad grammar sentence structure & facts

people arent signing up to be loss leaders or offer charity theyre signing up for a job but are being misled by false advertising bait & switch ads & the ceo on TV lying just like the old one or did you miss those lost law suits too?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

doyousensehumor said:


> If you wait for someone else to fix it, whether it's the company or the government, you will never be happy!
> 
> What does that imply you, as being one of their drivers?
> 
> ...


You ought to take the time and READ fuber's driver contract.

It's full of lies.

It says drivers can do this, that, and the other thing, yet in reality, fuber would FIRE any driver who actually DOES those things.


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> You can only drive one car at a time.
> 
> The same way that this applies on the road -- you have no control over the bad driver you're sharing the road with; you can only drive _your_ car in such a way to protect it and yourself -- it applies to your relationship with Uber.
> 
> ...


Great post! Wonderful way to look at it. This is a great way to confront a lot of things in life. Again:



SuzeCB said:


> *You can only drive one car at a time.
> 
> The same way that this applies on the road -- you have no control over the bad driver you're sharing the road with; you can only drive your car in such a way to protect it and yourself -- it applies to your relationship with Uber.
> 
> But none of us can drive that car. Only the one that you're in. What can you do to improve your conditions? What do you actually have control over?*


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## possibledriver (Dec 16, 2014)

The Gift of Fish said:


> It seems that the publication is appropriately named.


It's actually a pretty well respected business and investment website. Like any of them tho it's not always accurate.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

possibledriver said:


> It's actually a pretty well respected business and investment website. Like any of them tho it's not always accurate.


I am yet to read an error-free article from any publication on Uber's relationship with its drivers, driver pay, working conditions, commission structure or pricing.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I am yet to read an error-free article from any publication on Uber's relationship with its drivers, driver pay, working conditions, commission structure or pricing.


when you consider how often uber lies... its not that hard to believe the newspapers can't get it right.


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## Listen41 (May 6, 2018)

jazzapt said:


> When I open the Uber app as a Pax and put in destination, I get up upfront fare. On that upfront fare is an "Info" icon. If I click on it, it gives a breakdown of the charges that SHOULD determine my fare.
> 
> View attachment 239523
> 
> ...


Where is this? I do not even get paid for this rate

You are a sold out, bought out UBER Agent who is speaking on Behalf of the UBER and LYFT. Uber and LYFT is raping us and teh Customer anally and you don't recognize that. People don't make decent wages or living with teh UBER or LYFT. They are being used as slave for making money for these greedy bastard.

The co founder of UBER Made 6 billion dollar, tether CEO of UBER made over 200 million dollar , where does those money comes from: and I cannot even make more than $10/hr and listening to all of your lies and BS. Working 14 hours a day while making money for these BAstard. If had another JOB or have another way of making living , I would have left long time ago. People like you are full of BS and Arse kisser for these slave driver and lack simple Math skill to see how we are being screwed.

Stop supporting your master , and being sold out rater stay with your brothers and sister to bring this corrupt organization down.

Where is this? I do not even get paid for this rate

You are a sold out, bought out UBER Agent who is speaking on Behalf of the UBER and LYFT. Uber and LYFT is raping us and teh Customer anally and you don't recognize that. People don't make decent wages or living with teh UBER or LYFT. They are being used as slave for making money for these greedy bastard.

The co founder of UBER Made 6 billion dollar, tether CEO of UBER made over 200 million dollar , where does those money comes from: and I cannot even make more than $10/hr and listening to all of your lies and BS. Working 14 hours a day while making money for these BAstard. If had another JOB or have another way of making living , I would have left long time ago. People like you are full of BS and Arse kisser for these slave driver and lack simple Math skill to see how we are being screwed.

Stop supporting your master , and being sold out rater stay with your brothers and sister to bring this corrupt organization down.


----------



## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

R_I_C_O said:


> until i can cancel rides that do not cover my costs(i.e. 80+% of em) so basically ALL rides not going more than 10 miles, without repercussions of being fired(i.e. deactivated) uber drivers ARE EMPLOYEES period, they ate coercing me into providing free labor period
> 
> until SOME details are shown to drivers BEFORE accepting & entering into a blank contract uber drivers are EMPLOYEES
> 
> ...


You need to go get a job at McDonalds. You'll be much happier. I don't see how anybody could stay in a job if they're that miserable.


----------



## Matty760 (Nov 9, 2015)

Is anyone forgetting the fact that this rideshare thing wasn't supposed to be a full time job and just a way to make some extra money? Its the drivers who sign up thinking that they can work this full time and then complain about not getting benefits or blame others for them taking base fare pings for short trips. work smarter not harder! I lost my job and started driving for lyft before Uber since at the time Uber didnt allow crew cab trucks on the platform. I never considered it a full time job at all in the last 4 years ive been driving. I stuck to my weekend night schedule as a driver and I make decent money for what it is. I was the first truck approved to drive on the uber platform and once I got on Uber my business increased cuz of the demand but now with all these noob drivers coming in everyday seeing what drivers made in the past or etc they are the ones ruining it now for us. These new drivers complain about the pay and not getting paid fairly and no benefits and etc. The younger millennial generation has really ruined this gig both as drivers and as pax. They don't tip as a pax and expect the world to give them what they require without doing anything for it. Im of the older millennial generation where we still use common sense and logic to know what to do and don't rely on a phone or app to tell us what to do. Look at this from both sides. As a driver, as this post first starts off by saying, we are paid what we agreed to, which is true. The pax are being ripped off which isn't true. The pax is being charged more than what it used to be in the past but they agree to upfront pricing so no rip off. If you are all so worried about the pax being ripped off then why don't you just changed the destination in the app once you complete the ride with the pax. The fare then changes to a variable fare instead of a upfront fare therefore making the pax only pay the true mileage and time for the ride. simple fix. The driver can also exploit this upfront fare by taking a further longer route and having the pax pay the same price while the driver take most if not all the fare and uber gets nothing. It works great when you do it right! so like I said work smarter not harder!


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## AllGold (Sep 16, 2016)

Matty760 said:


> Is anyone forgetting the fact that this rideshare thing wasn't supposed to be a full time job and just a way to make some extra money?


Completely irrelevant. That doesn't make it ok to screw both the drivers and riders.


----------



## possibledriver (Dec 16, 2014)

doyousensehumor said:


> If you wait for someone else to fix it, whether it's the company or the government, you will never be happy
> 
> What does that imply you, as being one of their drivers?
> 
> ...


You say socialism like it's a bad thing. I'll take universal health care, education, basic income and the workers owning the means of production over the russian backed neocon oligarchy we have right now any day.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

possibledriver said:


> You say socialism like it's a bad thing. I'll take universal health care, education, basic income and the workers owning the means of production over the russian backed neocon oligarchy we have right now any day.


Socialism is terrible.
I work for what is mine. I share it with my family.
Case closed.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Drivers MUST have Representation

As a Group.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


The market fare is the fare the rider pays. You don't get to d fine "fare" two different ways.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

NEVER CHANGE THE DEAL !

UBER IS PROVEN DISHONORABLE.

Uber plans to" Reach Out" to Drivers soon . . .


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

possibledriver said:


> You say socialism like it's a bad thing. I'll take universal health care, education, basic income and the workers owning the means of production over the russian backed neocon oligarchy we have right now any day.


Sounds like you are moving to Europe very soon.

C ya!


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

possibledriver said:


> You say socialism like it's a bad thing. I'll take universal health care, education, basic income and the workers owning the means of production over the russian backed neocon oligarchy we have right now any day.


There's a reason people around the world who can afford to come to the US for medical treatment.


----------



## R_I_C_O (Jul 3, 2018)

Coachman said:


> You need to go get a job at McDonalds. You'll be much happier. I don't see how anybody could stay in a job if they're that miserable.


tone fron text DONT try to decipher it sorry im too old to use emoticons & thats why they were invented but not miserable over here lmao

but thanks for trying dont eat at McDonald's & would never work there but to each they own least they pay a legal wage not big on the factory farming but if people want to poison themselves because heating & seadoning food to taste is too difficult for them & they want to pay more for the convenience factor so be it... havent had a full time job since the 90s after ticketmaster sent me a wire for what most make in a year for a night ; )

facts arent miserable



Matty760 said:


> Is anyone forgetting the fact that this rideshare thing wasn't supposed to be a full time job and just a way to make some extra money? Its the drivers who sign up thinking that they can work this full time and then complain about not getting benefits or blame others for them taking base fare pings for short trips. work smarter not harder! I lost my job and started driving for lyft before Uber since at the time Uber didnt allow crew cab trucks on the platform. I never considered it a full time job at all in the last 4 years ive been driving. I stuck to my weekend night schedule as a driver and I make decent money for what it is. I was the first truck approved to drive on the uber platform and once I got on Uber my business increased cuz of the demand but now with all these noob drivers coming in everyday seeing what drivers made in the past or etc they are the ones ruining it now for us. These new drivers complain about the pay and not getting paid fairly and no benefits and etc. The younger millennial generation has really ruined this gig both as drivers and as pax. They don't tip as a pax and expect the world to give them what they require without doing anything for it. Im of the older millennial generation where we still use common sense and logic to know what to do and don't rely on a phone or app to tell us what to do. Look at this from both sides. As a driver, as this post first starts off by saying, we are paid what we agreed to, which is true. The pax are being ripped off which isn't true. The pax is being charged more than what it used to be in the past but they agree to upfront pricing so no rip off. If you are all so worried about the pax being ripped off then why don't you just changed the destination in the app once you complete the ride with the pax. The fare then changes to a variable fare instead of a upfront fare therefore making the pax only pay the true mileage and time for the ride. simple fix. The driver can also exploit this upfront fare by taking a further longer route and having the pax pay the same price while the driver take most if not all the fare and uber gets nothing. It works great when you do it right! so like I said work smarter not harder!


no one really cares about benefits or being an employee tbey just want to be paid legally

$4 or $2 after gas is least $6 short PERIOD

ZERO rides should cost drivers money ZERO its not a charity its a job EVERY ride should pay over costs PERIOD.

just because all the people with crappy jobs so they need multiple & dont care about laws & rights people died for are willing to give up those rights because I no schedule no teenager boss no funny hat no drug test & they can make beer money every now & then doesn't mean its legal

again uber rider app will charge rider for the faster more expensive toll route while the driver app says go the slower cheaper way & keeps the toll & difference thats being RIPPED OFF its rackateering if done in multiple states, i have hundreds of screenshots prooving this, if they give a rider and estimate that stated "this quote includes a $12 toll but we wont take you that route or pass it on to your driver, you have to go the slower route while paying for the faster one" lmao you think riders would accept that?



possibledriver said:


> You say socialism like it's a bad thing. I'll take universal health care, education, basic income and the workers owning the means of production over the russian backed neocon oligarchy we have right now any day.


all isms work on paper none work in the human world

capitalism only works for 1% of people until an ism comes along that benefits 51% of people they all flawed

giving private drivers & chauferres to poor people, junkies, drunks, club rats, people with multiple duis, is a form of socilism most riders are NOT paying actual costs of what they are getting they only paying 41% of actual costs


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## macinmn (Jan 5, 2016)

jazzapt said:


> Therefore, those are the only numbers I review when looking at my fare. And as long as I get paid correctly based on route and multipliers, I move on because it is all I can and should expect.


Let's assume that you drive a vehicle that qualifies for UberSelect or whatever the elevated tier is called in your market. You've also opted in to taking UberX at various times, such as when it's slow, or whatever your personal strategy is, and you have this active. Let's also assume, so that we aren't mixing our fruit, this occurred before the contentious 'upfront pricing' scheme, so a true '80-percent paid' trip... only not so much. Client books ride as UberSelect unbeknownst to you, you get pinged as UberX and accept. Customer-pax still gets the quality vehicle they paid for, you get paid for what you stated you were willing to do at a lower price because it was slow and you weren't getting Select pings (which you would have). You find out from passenger during trip it should have been Select. Would you still feel this is fair? Is it unethical? It's not really any different than the current 'upfront' disparity scenario (and I'm sure has been 'tested' by Uber without drivers knowing).


jazzapt said:


> Is short, as always, we drivers get paid 75% or 80% of the market fares (minus fees), not 75% to 80% of what the rider pays. If that bugs you, the best way to fight it is to let pax know they are being ripped off and how to beat it, or long haul when you can to reduce Uber's cut.


My guess is passenger response is more or less "well I'm willing to pay $60 for this trip because the alternate competitive product is much more expensive, and if you aren't fighting for your fair $40-48 of that, that's on you".

Also the change in terms which we 'agreed to' (I'm assuming everyone else had it presented to them in the same manner) was suddenly while we were attempting to log in for a 'shift': "agree to these new terms effective immediately if you want to keep driving for us, 'what we pay you' will not be affected". Many drivers either needed the money too bad to object, didn't foresee the additional changes to passenger billing or how that would affect their pay going forward (and tips), didn't care, or misread the legal-speak or were mislead by the wording.

I can't imagine many enthusiastically swiped 'I agree'.



Kodyhead said:


> You guys should appreciate all the things these companies like uber and lyft do. There is a lot of costs and expenses drivers dont know, aware or have any clue about like rape lawsuits lol


these companies like uber and lyft should appreciate all the things You guys do. There is a lot of drivers' costs and expenses they dont know, aware or have any clue about

re-arranged some of that for you 



Who is John Galt? said:


> Yeah, interesting point. Have you had any luck in your application for the black label / subscriber section here yet, or is the pre-vetting ongoing?
> 
> I wrote a 10,000 word reference / endorsement / jerk-off letter on your behalf, so I suppose the powers that be are still trying to comprehend the content of that before giviving you the appropriate badge.


If you sit directly behind me in the back seat, can you write one of those letters for me too? 



Atom guy said:


> You're looking at this from an employee's perspective. We aren't employees. We are independent contractors. Per the terms of service, the passengers are OUR customers, and we agree to charge Uber's rates. So to begin with the total fare is OURS. In exchange for access to the app, we agree in the TOS to pay Uber a service fee, which used to be a fixed 20-25%. Now that service fee that WE pay to Uber is highly variable. That's the real problem.


Yep, remember a few months before Upfront when we 'collected' the Safe Rider fee, and then passed it along to Uber as a commission charge to help the platform be safer by paying for our background checks (them there some expensive checks there Chotchie)? Then all of a sudden "wellllllll since you never actually see this money anyway, we're just going tidy things up a bit for you and get rid of it, but no change to your pay".


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Matty760 said:


> Is anyone forgetting the fact that this rideshare thing wasn't supposed to be a full time job and just a way to make some extra money? Its the drivers who sign up thinking that they can work this full time and then complain about not getting benefits or blame others for them taking base fare pings for short trips. work smarter not harder! I lost my job and started driving for lyft before Uber since at the time Uber didnt allow crew cab trucks on the platform. I never considered it a full time job at all in the last 4 years ive been driving. I stuck to my weekend night schedule as a driver and I make decent money for what it is. I was the first truck approved to drive on the uber platform and once I got on Uber my business increased cuz of the demand but now with all these noob drivers coming in everyday seeing what drivers made in the past or etc they are the ones ruining it now for us. These new drivers complain about the pay and not getting paid fairly and no benefits and etc. The younger millennial generation has really ruined this gig both as drivers and as pax. They don't tip as a pax and expect the world to give them what they require without doing anything for it. Im of the older millennial generation where we still use common sense and logic to know what to do and don't rely on a phone or app to tell us what to do. Look at this from both sides. As a driver, as this post first starts off by saying, we are paid what we agreed to, which is true. The pax are being ripped off which isn't true. The pax is being charged more than what it used to be in the past but they agree to upfront pricing so no rip off. If you are all so worried about the pax being ripped off then why don't you just changed the destination in the app once you complete the ride with the pax. The fare then changes to a variable fare instead of a upfront fare therefore making the pax only pay the true mileage and time for the ride. simple fix. The driver can also exploit this upfront fare by taking a further longer route and having the pax pay the same price while the driver take most if not all the fare and uber gets nothing. It works great when you do it right! so like I said work smarter not harder!


You don't know what you're talking about.

You're doing nothing more than parroting fuber's lying propaganda that it's "not supposed to be a full-time job"

Fuber lies thru their teeth when they say that, because without the zillions of full time ants hauling people to and from work Mon-Fri, fuber would collapse.

The bedrock core and by far most important part of fuber's business is and has been COMMUTERS, not bar hopping drunks.

One of fuber's ultimate goals is to REPLACE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.

And the vast majority of public trans users are COMMUTERS.

Fuber tries to coverup their dependence on full timers because the more full timers they appear to have, the greater the danger that the govt could declare drivers as EMPLOYEES

So fuber decided to paint rideshare as a "side hustle", figuring that the govt would be much less likely to declare part time casual drivers as employees.

Fuber and gryft are lying scumbg organizations.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Coachman said:


> There's a reason people around the world who can afford to come to the US for medical treatment.


There's also a reason so many US citizens go out of the country for procedures and medications.

Nowhere is perfect. What makes this country great is that, in theory, it can be fixed wherever it is broken.



Mista T said:


> Sounds like you are moving to Europe very soon.
> 
> C ya!


Does it ever occur to people who say this, or something like it, whenever people point out something they believe could be better about our nation that it's an absolutely _un-_American thing to say?

The Founding Fathers set up our nation and Constitution so that its people can recognize when something isn't perfect and can be changed, speak about it to show others and exchange ideas on the situation, and, if appropriate and possible, make a change.

Suggesting someone that simply says something one doesn't agree with should get out of the country goes against everything this country stands for.

It also doesn't help anything at all, except already-risen hostilities.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Well... last night...
> out of $246 gross revenue
> 
> My cut was $142= 57%
> ...


Are you dependent on the cab company for radio calls?

Are street hails available in your market?

If street hails are available in your market, and you don't need the radio service, do you have the option of opting out of driving for that cab company?

If you don't need the cab company, and aren't allowed to opt out, the 30% you're paying is GRAND LARCENY

Even if you need the cab company, 30% is too high (just like fuber)

You shouldn't have to pay ANYTHING to that company if you don't need their radio calls, period.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Are you dependent on the cab company for radio calls?
> 
> Are street hails available in your market?
> 
> ...


In many markets here in U.S.A., street hails have been eradicated by Uber.
Let me explain.
Right now I'm parked at a gas station which doubles as a bus depot for NY chinatown busses.
10 years ago this place would have been a goldmine. It's a little off the grid.
Now, the bus arrives. People get off. They look right through the cabs and stare at their smartphone waiting for a TNC.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> In many markets here in U.S.A., street hails have been eradicated by Uber.
> Let me explain.
> Right now I'm parked at a gas station which doubles as a bus depot for NY chinatown busses.
> 10 years ago this place would have been a goldmine. It's a little off the grid.
> Now, the bus arrives. People get off. They look right through the cabs and stare at their smartphone waiting for a TNC.


 Uber's taken a lot of business from taxis, but my questions to him were about the money he has to pay to the cab company even though he has to supply his own vehicle.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Uber's taken a lot of business from taxis, but my questions to him were about the money he has to pay to the cab company even though he has to supply his own vehicle.


He works for Mears. No owner operators.
All company owned vehicles. You also asked about street hails. I've been at every level of this business for 20 objective years.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> He works for Mears. No owner operators.
> All company owned vehicles. You also asked about street hails. I've been at every level of this business for 20 objective years.


I don't know which poster you're referring


TwoFiddyMile said:


> He works for Mears. No owner operators.
> All company owned vehicles. You also asked about street hails. I've been at every level of this business for 20 objective years.


The poster I responded to was Steve the Magic Unicorn, who's from Orlando,FL.

I don't know who you're talking about, but it isn't him.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> I don't know which poster you're referring
> 
> The poster I responded to was Steve the Magic Unicorn, who's from Orlando,FL.
> 
> I don't know who you're talking about, but it isn't him.


Stevie works for Mears. I'm not sure if your ignorant or if you're just messing with me but whatever, good lick dude.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Uber's taken a lot of business from taxis, but my questions to him were about the money he has to pay to the cab company even though he has to supply his own vehicle.


They supply the car!

And your assumption is completely out the window isn't it?

comes out of the $73 a day i pay them. Every other single cost is just a pass through. *tolls get passed through at the discounted rate for using a transponder* Gas prices are comparable.

I edited it with numbers to answer each question.


Nats121 said:


> 1 Are you dependent on the cab company for radio calls?
> 
> 2 Are street hails available in your market?
> 
> ...


1. Yes... I got 17 the last shift i worked (between phone ins and app calls)

(there are also a gazillion cab stands set up for the drivers to sit at. Each company controls it's own cab stands here, owner operators can't enter them either. I had one fare from one of these this week, I personally don't bother with them but there are drivers who do)

2 yes, in theory, is there enough? no (I had ONE last night)
3A. I need the radio
3B. I used to be an owner operator, people still do it. Part timers are better off getting a car/fares from a company
4. I could opt out, but i really can't put in the hours to cover the $400 a month in taxi insurance and still turn a profit
5. I honestly can't operate a car i own for much less per 240 miles. It comes to like $85(plus tolls) for 240 miles. Or about 35c a mile. The taxi I owned cost me 40c a mile, inclusive of all expenses, such as gas maintenance, depreciation.. Commerical insurance alone is more than i pay to rent taxis every month these days.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Being a taxi owner operator in 2018 is suicide.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Being a taxi owner operator in 2018 is suicide.


The few i see around here, i think there's uber/lyft going on to make it work.

Meaning they are uber/lyft drivers with proper insurance and a $10 taxi/for hire sign on their roof.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> They supply the car!
> 
> And your assumption is completely out the window isn't it?
> 
> ...


In your previous post, when you said 30%


Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> They supply the car!
> 
> And your assumption is completely out the window isn't it?
> 
> ...


In your previous post, you listed all the various expenses taken form your gross of $246, including 30% for the cab company.

Then near the bottom of the post, you say "guess who owns the car?"

Then you say "30%+ without providing a car is BS"

No where in the post did you use the word "uber".

So it was reasonable for someone to read your post and interpret it as meaning you were paying the cab company 30%, but they DIDN'T provide the car.

Your post could have been worded more clearly, that's for sure.


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## ubergrind (May 23, 2017)

The real issue to me is collective bargaining. As individual rideshare drivers we have very little power to take on a billion dollar corporation. The Supreme Court just further exacerbated the decline of unions with their latest rulings. In the gig economy you are a replaceable cog in the wheel and Uber/Lyft/ Handy/ Instacart, whoever, don't care one iota about your situation or creating an equitable playing field. These companies are driven by the analyst expectations on Wallstreet and by how fast they can IPO and drive a huge cash event. Drivers are just an itemized expenses on a massive spreadsheet in which the companies are trying to maximize their top line and bottom line. 

Everyone has their own reasons for doing Uber/ Lyft. The upfront pricing scheme combined with reduced wages has forced me to adapt my driving to what is profitable for my individual circumstances. The rideshare companies have built a casino in which they are the house, and they usually win. They routinely overcharge the customers while paying the drivers as little as possible. I'd advise anyone who does this to track all of their trips and know what the actual mileage is vs. what they tell you it is. I've seen some crazy calcs where Uber attempted to pay me based off a straight line calculation to the airport during a surge v. the actual route I drove. I take this trip or variations of this trip weekly so I know what I should make based off the route that I took. A driver who does not understand their fare detail probably would have glanced at the payout and said I made a nice profit for 40 mins of work thanks to the surge. I knew it was b.s. and called support who eventually changed it to what I should have been paid. 

It wouldn't surprise me if Uber has shorted me by 2-3 k annually thanks to this upfront pricing scheme. Sure we signed the agreement, but don't really have a choice if you want to do this. With a lack of ability to unionize the only thing you can really do is ask for some lube when you're bending over grabbing your ankles by working for these companies. There is little to no upside in rideshare, and quite honestly this job in its current form will be gone as soon as autonomous vehicles replace drivers. Labor is a huge cost for these companies and the sooner they can get rid of us, the more profitable they become. It's best to develop your skills or figure out a way to add value somewhere else.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

R_I_C_O said:


> ...giving private drivers & chauferres to poor people, junkies, drunks, club rats, people with multiple duis, is a form of socilism most riders are NOT paying actual costs of what they are getting they only paying 41% of actual costs


A private company offering products or services at below market value is not a form of socialism. If the government nationalized ride share companies, that would be socialism.


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## QX Mafia (May 8, 2018)

I think the best way to deal with this alleged issue is to evolve with it. We all know Uber is a company without integrity. They have always tried to lie, cheat and steal their ways into everything they do. Dumbfounded more hasn’t been done to prevent this company from doing business in the states as they are one of the most unethical companies I have ever come upon. 

Drivers need to quit complaining about the percentages and work with the system and exploit it the way Uber is exploiting passengers and drivers. Best way to fight back is long haul and chew up quoted fair. As long as you pickup and drop off according to the map, the passenger will pay the quoted fair. It’s your job as drivers to pad the miles on the fair. You can easily get Uber’s cut down to 10% or even create a loss for them by passing the miles. 

You need to convince passengers that freeway is safer. Create some Z’s in those routes you take. Throw in a wrap around. Make that U. The route map is your etch-a-sketch. Be creative. Uber can’t expect the drivers to have integrity when they don’t have it themselves. 

I’m sure most drivers that have been around a while have noticed a decline in rides. Passengers are really over being disrespected and played by both Uber and drivers. They’re opting for other means. They are driving themselves to parties and events now. It’s interesting that there hasn’t been a growth report published in a while showing how many new passengers are using the system. Is this coincidence or the last thing when launching an IPO investors want to hear is there is a decline in people using their product? Just some things to think about. Don’t forget your long hauls. Chew up that extra revenue so Uber doesn’t get your money. We can learn by our example. Do what Uber would do.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Coachman said:


> A private company offering products or services at below market value is not a form of socialism. If the government nationalized ride share companies, that would be socialism.


It's price fixing


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> It's price fixing


Generally in price fixing the companies conspire to keep an artificially high price, not a low one.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Coachman said:


> Generally in price fixing the companies conspire to keep an artificially high price, not a low one.


Nope. Half the time, price fixing undercuts mom and pop businesses who can't lower prices in order to compete.
See:
Walmart
Amazon


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Nope. Half the time, price fixing undercuts mom and pop businesses who can't lower prices in order to compete.
> See:
> Walmart
> Amazon


I'm not sure you understand the definition of price fixing. Lowering your price to beat your competition is not price fixing.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I'm not sure you understand the definition of price fixing. Lowering your price to beat your competition is not price fixing.


Price fixing is 2 or nore competitors colluding to fix the price, for whatever reason.

In this case, they both agree to pay the same amount to drivers and/or agree to stop cutting the price. Supposedly.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Coachman said:


> I'm not sure you understand the definition of price fixing. Lowering your price to beat your competition is not price fixing.


Price fixing is anything that artificially alters the price of goods or services. Uber was sued in NY for price fixing.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Price fixing is anything that artificially alters the price of goods or services. Uber was sued in NY for price fixing.


Somebody sued because they didn't like the surge price. Surge pricing is not price fixing.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

macinmn said:


> Let's assume that you drive a vehicle that qualifies for UberSelect or whatever the elevated tier is called in your market. You've also opted in to taking UberX at various times, such as when it's slow, or whatever your personal strategy is, and you have this active. Let's also assume, so that we aren't mixing our fruit, this occurred before the contentious 'upfront pricing' scheme, so a true '80-percent paid' trip... only not so much. Client books ride as UberSelect unbeknownst to you, you get pinged as UberX and accept. Customer-pax still gets the quality vehicle they paid for, you get paid for what you stated you were willing to do at a lower price because it was slow and you weren't getting Select pings (which you would have). You find out from passenger during trip it should have been Select. Would you still feel this is fair? Is it unethical? It's not really any different than the current 'upfront' disparity scenario (and I'm sure has been 'tested' by Uber without drivers knowing).
> 
> My guess is passenger response is more or less "well I'm willing to pay $60 for this trip because the alternate competitive product is much more expensive, and if you aren't fighting for your fair $40-48 of that, that's on you".
> 
> ...


As you can see from some of the responses, Upnet is infested with fuber fanboys and shills.

Among my favorite comments from them is when they tell us we should be "grateful" to fuber for letting us drive for them, as if somehow fuber doesn't need our services but lets us drive anyway just to be nice.

It's also funny the way they quote the contract as "proof" that drivers are independent contractors.

The fanboys and shills don't like it if you quote various things in the contract that fuber VIOLATES 24/7, such as drivers being allowed to negotiate fares with pax....

Tell fuber that from now on you're gonna negotiate your own fares with the pax and see how long it takes before you get fired.

Or tell fuber that from now on you're gonna use their "lead generator" to steer pax to your new livery company and see how long it takes before you get fired.

BOTH of the above are in the contract.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Tell fuber that from now on you're gonna negotiate your own fares with the pax and see how long it takes before you get fired.


How many fares have you negotiated?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> In your previous post, when you said 30%
> 
> In your previous post, you listed all the various expenses taken form your gross of $246, including 30% for the cab company.
> 
> ...


Sorry for not being clear...

It's $73 flat

30% is the HIGH END of what i usually end up giving the cab company.

Last night it was about 25%

On a slow night it ends up closer to 1/3


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## Gilby (Nov 7, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> A worker's belief that they're being paid fairly can change in a split second if he or she discovers their salary is below market, or if they discover an obviously inferior co-worker is getting the same or higher salary.....
> 
> This is why it's in an employer's best interest to keep workers from finding out what their co-workers are being paid, and why that knowledge provides bargaining power for the workers.


As news director of a 45-person department at a TV station, I made sure all the employees knew exactly the pay ranges for each position - photographer/editor, reporter, producer, assignment editor, anchor, weather person, manager, etc... They would not know the *exact* pay of other workers doing the same job, but they knew where they stood in the pay range for their job. One result? Reporters and on-air anchors decertified the union. They told me they preferred pay being based on merit and knowing the budget ranges, rather than having it simply based on seniority in each position.


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## Matty760 (Nov 9, 2015)

Nats, I know what im talking about. those who assume they are owed something have something coming to them. I know exactly what Uber and lyft are. I only drive when its surging and when its busy, I know when to drive to make it profitable for me and me alone! I never expect uber or lyft to do anything good for the drivers. I drive when it benefits me. Drivers that drive full time are the problem cuz they are also the ones who take the base fares. The keep driving all day and for low rates cuz they need money and don't realize how much they are spending in costs to realize they aren't making much. So when I say this wasnt meant as a full time job and wasn't sold as that I am correct. If you drive "full time" and make good money then good for you. But those who think that have to work full time to make money and aren't making that much have drank the kool aid cuz now they are driving more to make more on such low rates than where the rates used to be at. Any new driver that signed up at the beginning of 2016 i feel bad for and then again a majority of these new drivers in 2016 till now are the main cause of a lot of these problems we see now days. They are the drivers who were put on the new commission structure and so they don't make as much as someone like me on the old grandfathered plan. anyways... if people don't like uber and lyft then don't drive for them, that simple. people complaining about all this crap wanting to do something about it, yet they keep driving and driving for base fares and wonder why nothing gets changed... hmmm.


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## Skepticaldriver (Mar 5, 2017)

Tbh. No one ever said uber and lyft doesnt deserve a cut. 


Of course they do. 


But they take the lions share. 

Thats the problem


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## moJohoJo (Feb 19, 2017)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


Be happy . IT'S up to 75 % commission here in Souther Cal . for Uber .


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## RaleighUber (Dec 4, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> When rates were on the way down, Uber would present colourful charts and analyses in support of its claims that lower prices paid by pax would result in increased ride volume. They were correct; the law of supply and demand states that, for price elastic goods, demand will increase as price is lowered. .


First off, well done on bringing micro-econ into the discussion! Demand does increase as price drops. 
Second, market price is set by where the supply and demand curve meet. But uber/lyft flood market with new drivers shifting supply curve downward, lowering market price. 
Third, Uber's pricing (matched nearly exactly by Lyft) and payment mechanics benefit them, getting the "difference" between actual supply curve and actual demand curve. 
Because drivers see this manipulation of the market by uber/lyft, they get frustrated. Passengers don't see the manipulation and don't get frustrated.


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## allcingbonz21 (Feb 20, 2017)

but we all hate unions now don’t we 
uber drivers union, lift drivers, amazon drivers omg
teamsters should be signing us up, nationwide strike boom we get a seat at the table 
investors get less we get more

but some schmucks would not join the idea would fail we end up further screwed.
people my goodness, organized labor in this instance makes so much sense


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## roadman (Nov 14, 2016)

Let me put it simple terms uber up front pricing is a scam.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

RaleighUber said:


> First off, well done on bringing micro-econ into the discussion! Demand does increase as price drops.
> Second, market price is set by where the supply and demand curve meet. But uber/lyft flood market with new drivers shifting supply curve downward, lowering market price.
> Third, Uber's pricing (matched nearly exactly by Lyft) and payment mechanics benefit them, getting the "difference" between actual supply curve and actual demand curve.
> Because drivers see this manipulation of the market by uber/lyft, they get frustrated. Passengers don't see the manipulation and don't get frustrated.


All true. And increased demand doesn't necessarily benefit individual drivers the way it benefits the company. Because there are more drivers on the road.



allcingbonz21 said:


> but we all hate unions now don't we
> uber drivers union, lift drivers, amazon drivers omg
> teamsters should be signing us up, nationwide strike boom we get a seat at the table
> investors get less we get more
> ...


I don't know how you form a union when the average Uber driver only drives 2 months. What's the criteria for membership? Just having an active account?


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## MyOwnUber (Oct 12, 2017)

I quit driving for Uber over a year ago and only came back to this forum to see what has changed. Apparently not much. Uber is still an immoral company for lying to new drivers in its ads. It lied from the very onset by telling passengers that their fee included tips. it stole trade secrets from other companies, it lied about doing proper background checks of its drivers, and a host of other lies. Uber only exists because it has an aggressive legal time that perpetuates it lies. As I remarked on LinkedIn to Dara's article,"Uber's New Cultural Norms", the more ignorant you are of running your own business (being an independent contractor for Uber), the more Uber profits.


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

Atom guy said:


> You're looking at this from an employee's perspective. We aren't employees. We are independent contractors. Per the terms of service, the passengers are OUR customers, and we agree to charge Uber's rates. So to begin with the total fare is OURS. In exchange for access to the app, we agree in the TOS to pay Uber a service fee, which used to be a fixed 20-25%. Now that service fee that WE pay to Uber is highly variable. That's the real problem.
> 
> The first shady thing Uber does is to infer to the passengers that their Upfront Price is based on the actual time and miles of their trip. It is NOT. So the passenger ends up paying way more on many trips than if it was a straight time and miles plus booking fee calculation. The next shady thing Uber does is to direct drivers to take the shortest miles route possible, to minimize driver earnings. The difference between the inflated price the passenger pays and the minimized driver earnings is thrown into the service fee. Uber is essentially tricking drivers into cheating themselves with the navigation directions they send us. Unless we take the time to use Google Maps or Waze and find the longest mile route to each destination, Uber keeps skimming from us. It's OUR money that we are voluntarily giving away to Uber with each trip.
> 
> This is exactly what they do on a regular basis. Unfortunately for the passengers they have no way to reduce their fare by suggesting a shorter route. But at least a smart driver can find a higher miles route that still gets the passenger there in a similar time, so at least the driver can collect as much as possible of the inflated fare.


One time I was able to drastcally reduce Uber's upfront quote to me as a rider simply by walking a block towards a more optimum route. Had nothing to do with surge.


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## Tom Harding (Sep 26, 2016)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


One trip Uber too about 9% and another trip Uber took about 78%


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

I used to always make more than the cab company. Now I make the same as what I pay them.

BUT THEY FIX AND INSURE THE CAR.


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## K-pax (Oct 29, 2016)

jazzapt said:


> I wish this site offered posts that were stickys (sp?). Meaning it could/would be placed at the top of any forum page so that readers would always see it. I think this would be a valuable post for everyone to read before they post to complain about how much a percentage Uber is taking from the fare.
> 
> The complaint usually along the lines of "I can't believe Uber is taking 55%! I thought it would be 25%. Uber is ripping us off!". At risk of sounding like a shill, no matter how much Uber receives from the fare, unless there is a specific issue with that fare, they are always paying you exactly the way you agreed for them to pay you.
> 
> ...


The issue in these cases is that surge is being charged to the pax but not given to the driver.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

It's kind of about the principle of it to me.

It is one thing to make $3 taking a low wage worker on a 1.5 mile trip when they paid Uber $5. It's another to still make that $3 when the low wage worker had to pay Uber $8 instead of $5.

I used to feel that at least I was helping someone get to work at a low cost. Now I can't really even say that because the taxis charge about the same rate. I feel like a slave whenever I see Uber take a cut >50%.


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