# Drivers pushing up rates. Unethical?



## Fireguyva (Sep 6, 2016)

Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price. On a smaller scale of course. Do a honest days work for honest days pay. If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


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## NFIH (Jul 26, 2016)

I can't be bothered to go through all that, especially because this is just a very PT gig for me, but I don't have a problem with it. Especially if you're full time or close to it you need all the breaks you can get.

Uber has managed the system such that the desperation it fosters in drivers leads to what you're describing. If Uber paid decently, this would be much less of a "problem."

But if Uber paid decently I'm not convinced it would have much of a business. Its model almost requires the company to be highly and even unfairly exploitive of labor.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Supply and demand. Thats exactly what surge is. Also theres nothing wrong with building supply for future demand, thats business in a nutshell. Stop having a worker mentality and start having a business mentality. 

The only thing unethical was back when i heard drivers were communicating with eachother in order to manipulate surge. Thats a bit more like insider trading. Simply logging off and on to try to catch good surge, individually, is just prodent business as long as you are not conspiring directly with other drivers to achieve it.


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## WestSubDriver (Jul 1, 2016)

I'm skeptical of this whole practice and the evidence seems to be anecdotal. Its built on some assumptions on how Uber manages Surge that I don't know are true or not. But, it gives drivers some comfort that they have some control of the situation. I know you're not online to accept a trip, but the app is open and Uber has you geo located. They know the driver is there.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

I see it as independent contractors bidding on rides that are profitable to them, and stepping out of the bidding war when they know others will undercut them.

It's nothing like a hurricane, even on a smaller scale, because it's not an emergency situation. That's price gouging, and that's illegal.

As steve pointed out, as long as this is done on an individual level, without collusion, this behavior is completely legitimate.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

I think the OP is giving too much credit for an individual driver to affect the pricing system.


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price. On a smaller scale of course. Do a honest days work for honest days pay. If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


It's their right to choose WHEN they want to drive and if it's surge only, that's fine.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price. On a smaller scale of course. Do a honest days work for honest days pay. If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


It's really quite simple: I choose not to drive for X but only if the rate is Y or better. It's not the same as your generator example, during a natural disaster that's defined as price gouging by most state AG's.

Don't let that trouble you, .60 cents a mile in your region, continue to be a fool and drive for Uber.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Fireguyva said:


> If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


I do actually agree with this sentiment. Indeed, too many people around here willingly drive for low rates that they complain about.

However, when you say "do something else," that's exactly what the drivers you are talking about are doing. They are waiting for rates to go up so that they don't have to drive for rates they aren't happy with.


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## Oscarthegrouch (Jun 14, 2016)

If you want to drive for peanuts, be my guest. If I'm going to drive drunks home at 2 am, you bet your ass I'm sitting with my app open waiting for the surge to peak before I go online. It's all about maximizing my profits. Driving at base rates is a fools errand.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

I do this anytime I see it is surging or sense that it is about to surge. After all, I am an independent contractor, and no Uber customer (the passengers are not my customer) is owed a ride in my car. 

I decide when the rates are high enough to tolerate their presence in my car. When the rates are high enough, I turn on the app and only accept the rides with a sufficient multiplier. 

You all can do whatever you like, but this is what I do. And it works.


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## Fireguyva (Sep 6, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> It's really quite simple: I choose not to drive for X but only if the rate is Y or better. It's not the same as your generator example, during a natural disaster that's defined as price gouging by most state AG's.
> 
> Don't let that trouble you, .60 cents a mile in your region, continue to be a fool and drive for Uber.


So consider this scenario... After hurricane passes you as a contractor go to bid on repair work. Because the damage is wide spread there is more work than there are contractors. Is it ok to mark your bid up 2x or should you still bid with the normal price parameters?


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

You bid what you want. The owner of the project chooses from the bidders. It's not like the contractor caused the hurricane. And it's also not the contractor's fault if the owner decides not to take any bids and just sits on a pile of rubble until prices come down again.

Your analogy is not relevant to the question of rideshare pricing models.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

If an emergency is declared, it's generally illegal to mark up prices.

But, again, that has nothing to do with 99.9% of ride-sharing activities.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Fireguyva said:


> So consider this scenario... After hurricane passes you as a contractor go to bid on repair work. Because the damage is wide spread there is more work than there are contractors. Is it ok to mark your bid up 2x or should you still bid with the normal price parameters?


Not being an attorney and knowing that the price gouging laws are somewhat vague I think you are able to go a little higher due to increased costs but state AG's handle this more as a PR stunt. 2X would probably get you in front of the firing line, whether it's constitutional or not, I wouldn't want to be the test case for that.


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## ShawnsUber (Sep 8, 2016)

There is nothing wrong with the fact I and other drivers won't drive for less than surge. It is OUR choice as to when we accept rides, I simply will not waste MY time and gas for .75 a mile. 

How is that unlawful lol. I also choose if I take a job for less than $$$ a year. Is it unlawful for that?

On the flip side, it is a riders choice if they want to pay surge. What's the issue.


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## ddelro219 (Aug 11, 2016)

also, uber doens't have a monopoly in the transportation industry. in places like the bay area, atlanta, new york, chicago as well as the suburbs of places like these where there's demand, there's other options like trains, buses, light rail, taxis and then lyft. it's not like we're forcing them into a corner with no choice.


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## Steven T. (Apr 28, 2016)

so we've all been there right? bar closing or event ending... passengers will already expect to be paying surge pricing for a ride... so passenger is already expected to know to pay a higher price during those times... 

so why even complain? u as passenger knows the price will be higher than normal.

(we) drivers want to make the most money out of any trip, surge does help with it. plus a nice tip at the end of trip would be nice too, I consider it a good trip if you arrive home safe and sound.

off topic... I don't understand how (we) drivers don't get tipped often when passengers are putting their lives in our hands to drive them around. we almost all the time get them to their location safely.

and I always give my gf hassle about why should I tip waitresses all the time when all they do is take my order and give me my food. maybe I should be tipping the cooks for not poisoning me. food for thought


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## ddelro219 (Aug 11, 2016)

Steven T. said:


> and I always give my gf hassle about why should I tip waitresses all the time when all they do is take my order and give me my food. maybe I should be tipping the cooks for not poisoning me. food for thought


this is somewhat OT, i used to have simiar feelings around tipping. but have to comment on this out of regard to the people i know who rely on tips to make a living. tipping is a big source of income for a whole lot of people. my gf, whom i live with and raise our daughter with, relies heavily on tips in her line of work and without them, our financial picture might look quite a bit different. she's on her feet 9-10 hours a day versus the comfort of a car seat. she has to deal with impatient, indecisive and rude clients (much like we do); except she has to keep taking clients whereas we can choose not to accept or to cancel. she doesn't have the option to leave work when she wants like we do, she can't just go to work whenever she wants like we do.

if her client doesn't like her work, she might not get paid at all (policy at her particular salon). if a pax doesn't like our service, we don't get 5 stars. boohoo.

sorry for the rant. i used to question the need for tipping like you, but i've since changed my stance and make sure i tip appropriately to foodservers, hair stylists, drivers, etc.

think of it this way, tip foodserves for not spitting in your food or for not picking up your food from the dirty floor.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

OP needs a lesson in basic economics


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## ubercharlie (Sep 14, 2016)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price. On a smaller scale of course. Do a honest days work for honest days pay. If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


I'll tell you what is unethical, Travis Kalanick business practice & ventures. I advice you do the math especially driving for UberX. Individually,we are allowed to drive when we want!


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

Robertk said:


> OP needs a lesson in basic economics


So let me get this straight.... if the supply is lower and demand is higher then the price goes up? CRAZY!


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

Noobs!

SMDH


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

Fireguyva said:


> Do a honest days work for honest days pay.


Herein lies the problem. Uber/Lyft base rates are not an honest day's pay for an honest day's work most days. It's really the sneakiest part of the scheme, really, as surge is a phantom carrot we occasionally catch.

Double the rates and the best drivers would rarely log off, and Pax would have a reliable ride in moments. Then it would be an honest day's pay for an honest day's work.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price. On a smaller scale of course. Do a honest days work for honest days pay. If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


Show me. Show me the money.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Not unethical when the company itself lowers rates to unethical levels.


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## Tommy Sanchez (Sep 17, 2016)

Greguzzi said:


> I do this anytime I see it is surging or sense that it is about to surge. After all, I am an independent contractor, and no Uber customer (the passengers are not my customer) is owed a ride in my car.
> 
> I decide when the rates are high enough to tolerate their presence in my car. When the rates are high enough, I turn on the app and only accept the rides with a sufficient multiplier.
> 
> You all can do whatever you like, but this is what I do. And it works.


I'm finding the same, with this strategy any idea how much you average an hour?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

ubercharlie said:


> I'll tell you what is unethical, Travis Kalanick business practice & ventures. I advice you do the math especially driving for UberX. Individually,we are allowed to drive when we want!


" They give you THIS,but you pay for THAT. Hey hey,my my"
Can we afford ethics ?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Unethical ,would be like trying to put Publicly Subsidised Public transportation and infrastructure out of operation using the assets of poor people lured in by Bait and switch methods in order to establish a monopoly which is NOT in the best interest of the greedy public.
Yes,Door #3. I'll go with unethical Alex for $500.00 what is Uber.


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## MemphisDave (May 5, 2016)

I would not consider this unethical in any way. Last night, I was ready to go home. Not too tired to safely drive by any means, but about ready to "call it a day". I was headed home and was offline, but still had my display on. I noticed a surge of 1.5x in my area, but I was ready to quit for the day. When it went up to 2.0x, I pulled over and parked for a few minutes. I thought about it and decided that it would indeed be worth it to "Uber On" if the surge hits 2.5x (that's an extremely high standard for me, but I was ready to go home). By that time, the "swarm" of cars had come in like bees and it quickly dropped to 1.2x and then was gone.

That was fine by me, and I headed home. Had it it 2.5x, I would have gone online -- and that would have been the "system" acting precisely as it was supposed to -- to provide incentive to drivers to make ourselves available so that the PAX don't have to stare at a screen with no available drivers.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

MSUGrad9902 said:


> So let me get this straight.... if the supply is lower and demand is higher then the price goes up? CRAZY!


I know, right?!

what I can't understand is how the OP think that drivers are pushing up rates. It's the pax that drive demand, and thus rates higher. In fact the drivers push rates lower by providing more supply. Is basic economics not taught in schools anymore?


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

Personally, I don't care much what anyone else does to manipulate surge.

But I do find it comical that many of the whiners who howl about class action lawsuits and unfair employment practices and "living wage" and other hogwash, find it perfectly reasonable to engage in collusion and price-fixing as independent contractors supplying a service in the marketplace. Different sides of the same coin. 

These complainers would moan and wail if it was an Evil Corporation doing what they're doing, but since it's directly affecting their income, no harm no foul I guess.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Tommy Sanchez said:


> I'm finding the same, with this strategy any idea how much you average an hour?


Usually $35-ish, before expenses. Sometimes much more, but those days are atypical.


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

There are no ethics when dealing with an unethical company. Come on now.


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## Fireguyva (Sep 6, 2016)

Robertk said:


> I know, right?!
> 
> what I can't understand is how the OP think that drivers are pushing up rates. It's the pax that drive demand, and thus rates higher. In fact the drivers push rates lower by providing more supply. Is basic economics not taught in schools anymore?


Children, Children... if you're out and available to drive but while staging somewhere awaiting a ping and you go off line but keep app open to watch for surge then go on to try and snag a call is the scenario. 
Back to hurricane scenario... I own a hardware store and have 40 tons of plywood but only place out 10 sheets a day to make it appear to be a shortage then charge 2x. That is manipulating price. 
Drivers know when times get busy, they go out but don't log on. Wait for surge then on to snag. If nothing then log off again to keep surge up to make it appear that demand is higher than supply.
You will not convince me otherwise even if you do choose to insult me for posing the question. I stay logged on and make $125 +\- PT gig so that's fine with me. 
And to call me a noob when you've been a member here for 3 months longer than me is pompous.


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## ubercharlie (Sep 14, 2016)

jester121 said:


> Personally, I don't care much what anyone else does to manipulate surge.
> 
> But I do find it comical that many of the whiners who howl about class action lawsuits and unfair employment practices and "living wage" and other hogwash, find it perfectly reasonable to engage in collusion and price-fixing as independent contractors supplying a service in the marketplace. Different sides of the same coin.
> 
> These complainers would moan and wail if it was an Evil Corporation doing what they're doing, but since it's directly affecting their income, no harm no foul I guess.


This is Uber's business model.

1. Make as much as you want, you decide how many hours you want to work. 
2. No office, No Boss. Drive at times that work for you. 
3. Surge by Ubers definition is to entice more drivers to meet the demand.

Uber has a feature to notify the customer when the surge has ended. Uber allows a customer to cancel a ride within 5 minutes without compensation to the driver. The price is clearly stated on the customers app.

This is what uberx drivers have to contend with,

Base fare: $0.00
Per minute: $0.15
Per mile: $0.90

Booking fee: $1.65
Minimum fare: $5.15
Cancellation fee: $5
20% - 25% Uber fee

We are outside contractors for uber. Low Pay, No Benefits. We have to do what it takes to pay our bills, short of manipulating of prices by synchronizing our offline times. So please whom ever is using the hurricane and plywood scenario it is not applicable here.


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## Wizar (Apr 12, 2016)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price. On a smaller scale of course. Do a honest days work for honest days pay. If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


I haven't picked a ride with no surge or boost in more than two years
I'm a private contractor and I m the decider (only time I ever quoted terrorist g bush) of when I go to work and how much I'm wiling to make 
You are absolutely right , I will never do uber without extra pay, it simply is not worth it,
Don't hate the player hate the game


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## OneDay (Mar 19, 2016)

Did this guy above just compare drivers to a hardware store with plywood?

Drivers are free to wait for surge and are also free to "collude."

No one cares about you seeing drivers pop up when prices increase and you have no clue how it is to be a driver.
Your question should focus on feeling bad for drivers spending their gas money and dead miles without any fairs and lets not forget about that thing called time.

You should actually be thankful that drivers don't collude and it's not surging every single second of everyday.

If drivers collectively had half a brain, then it would be easy to manipulate prices and have Uber listen to our demands a lot easier, but guess what, we don't. 

What Uber has done, has taken the human element out of this service, and this service is probably the most unhealthy, stressful, and energy consuming of many out there.


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## Dutch-Ub (Mar 1, 2016)

Maybe they should test a Market with a surge going down instead of up. Start with 2,28 per kilometer or whatever the going taxi-rate is and implementing a discount or higher rate based on supply/demand. 

I'm getting increasingly worried about these surgeprices. Here in Amsterdam, the Netherlands the government has set a Max kilometer price of 2,28 euro per kilometer. To prevent pricegauging or taxicompanies taking advantage of pax in need. Just an hour ago surges x3 everywhere, makes it 3,30 per kilometer. The nasty thing is that all Uber drivers are fully taxi licensed, and such prices could make you lose the license instantly wich means getting deactivated. Just needs one complaining pax and your licenseplate and ur done. 

The Most fun thing is that all drivers and all taxicab companies have a license that they can lose, except Uber corp ofcourse, they cant lose their license, they don't even have one, because it's just a techcompany.... pff.


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## OneDay (Mar 19, 2016)

Is it unethical to hire as many drivers as humanly possible and not give a damn about any previous drivers that have been with your company and Have helped your help your company grow into what it is. We don't care about the Netherlands and if per se that these price Galagi rides in your own words are very rare for each driver, then we cannot blame the drivers in any shape or form.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical.


During a hurricane or a riot, it wouldn't make a difference. Uber isn't going to raise the surge anyhow.

During ordinary times, I can't see it as "unethical" at all. Partners are just holding out for a price they are willing to work for.

That's the free market system.

If customers have a problem with dynamic pricing, they don't have to play the game.


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## Boozoo (Oct 1, 2016)

Greguzzi said:


> ...When the rates are high enough, I turn on the app and only accept the rides with a sufficient multiplier...


Pardon me if this seems an obvious question (I'm still getting used to all the app's features). How do you know what the multiplier is when you are looking at a ride request timing out on your screen? Is it just a matter of being real quick to note the pickup address and remembering how far your preferred multiplier zone extends?

(because once I am in the position of deciding to accept the ping or not I can't see the map anymore.) And anyway... at least half the time I get a ping when I am sitting in the middle of a 2x zone the pickup winds up being out in base rate land.

So basically, how do I know for sure the ping I am deciding to accept has the multiplier I was hoping to catch?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price. On a smaller scale of course. Do a honest days work for honest days pay. If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


No more unethical than the pax waiting for surge to go down to order a ride.

The regular rates are too low. The surge rates are (or sometimes are just perceived by the pax) too high.

This is what you get. Otherwise the driver taking regular rate trips get f***** and the pax who tales 5x surge trips gets f*****.

Because the rate that makes sense to everyone is somewhere in the middle.

Would you order a 30 mile trip at 5x surge unless you absolutely had to or would you wait 10 minutes for it to go down?

You can also argue that you are stuck in the child's mindset where they think everything is black and white--stealing is ALWAYS wrong, for example. At some point you start to see there are exceptions--stealing a bottle of water to give to someone who is dying of thirst would be an exception to that rule so long as it's not from someone else who will then die.

The pax will be fine paying SOME surge. The driver may go bankrupt without it. Your view is a child's simplistic view.


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## MemphisDave (May 5, 2016)

Boozoo said:


> Pardon me if this seems an obvious question (I'm still getting used to all the app's features). How do you know what the multiplier is when you are looking at a ride request timing out on your screen? Is it just a matter of being real quick to note the pickup address and remembering how far your preferred multiplier zone extends?
> 
> (because once I am in the position of deciding to accept the ping or not I can't see the map anymore.) And anyway... at least half the time I get a ping when I am sitting in the middle of a 2x zone the pickup winds up being out in base rate land.
> 
> So basically, how do I know for sure the ping I am deciding to accept has the multiplier I was hoping to catch?


That's a good question to ask if you are just learning how this all "works"...I'll be glad to help. What we are talking about is having your Driver App OPEN, but not ONLINE. Watching the screen and (patiently...trust me, this requires patience sometimes) studying the ins and outs of the surges. You can either learn to predict surges to a certain degree (which might be a later discussion), or just park yourself in a spot that typically surges on a regular basis (let's say, downtown in your city on a weekend night/morning when the bars all tend to clear out). You just stay offline (thereby not getting any pings) until the area that you are in (or are extremely close to) is surging at the level that meets your "goal".

Now that I try to explain from "scratch", it's not as easy as it seems...but it does at least allow drivers "a seat at the table" whilst current rates are being consistently negotiated (and renegotiated, over and over).

A key factor is to learn to use a second device with the passenger app open at all times. This shows you the availability of cars and (quite often) is the first to update when the surge goes up or down. You need to know if you are sitting in the middle of an Uber driver pileup of 10 cars during a 1.5x surge or if you are the lone wolf just sitting there by yourself. If surge is going down and available drivers seem to be increasing, that surge is on its way out. If surge is going up and every car disappears two seconds after it appears available, you're in the right place. There is a PAX who is waiting for you (and -- let's remember -- would just be waiting longer or paying more if you weren't there to provide your services.

I really don't see a way to make an informed decision about when to go on or offline without the information provided by the passenger app...but that is just my opinion. You CAN use it on the same device (and switch back and forth between the two apps), but that makes things far more difficult. You're also doing your fellow driver a courtesy by using that information not to pull right up in front of him or her and gives us all a chance to space out appropriately. I am a big proponent on driver-driver courtesy -- don't use the passenger app to snake other drivers or it will backfire on you.


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## MemphisDave (May 5, 2016)

I have to mention that there are additional factors that play a HUGE role in this whole "seek-the-surge" game. One usually does not just stumble upon some ridiculous multiplier in the middle of a normal Tuesday afternoon with nothing special going on. I personally have to make quite a few sacrifices and compromises to ever find myself in my vehicle and ready to drive when these opportunities arise. Approaching most weekends, I ensure that my sleeping schedule is reversed and that I'm rested and prepared to work from, say, 11 pm until morning. 

I drive when few others want to drive. Why? I love the decreased traffic and the decrease in other rideshare drivers on the road during those times. I mean, who would choose to have an UberXL packed with six intoxicated fraternity guys at 3:45 am (all begging for Taco Bell) and speaking so loudly that you can't hear your turn-by-turn directions compared to a sunny afternoon with a group of businessmen headed to lunch? They're going the same distance -- I'm investing the same amount of my time and my gas -- so why do I do it? Nobody else wants to. That's why the price is surging to begin with! Everyone in their right mind is at home in bed and I'm intentionally reversing sleeping patterns and (trust me), taking a much tougher road. 

It's worth it to me, though. It's worth it because I get paid more and because (if it were not for surge pricing factor), very few of us ever would choose to go that route (and that group of guys might have decided to drive themselves to Taco Bell).

I'm certainly not trying to sound like a "do-gooder" at all, but to be completely transparent, neither the money nor the fact that I think we do indeed save lives on some occasions would be enough to motivate me. The two factors combined, however, do.

I seek surges by intentionally driving when and where others don't want to and often taking PAX that would be the opposite of "ideal candidates". I get as much out of each ride as I can (of course) -- but I guarantee you that I EARN every damn cent. We all earn our money (plus some) in our own unique ways and I truly do find it fascinating how the same "job" can be so drastically different, depending on how you approach it.


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Boozoo said:


> Pardon me if this seems an obvious question (I'm still getting used to all the app's features). How do you know what the multiplier is when you are looking at a ride request timing out on your screen? Is it just a matter of being real quick to note the pickup address and remembering how far your preferred multiplier zone extends?
> 
> (because once I am in the position of deciding to accept the ping or not I can't see the map anymore.) And anyway... at least half the time I get a ping when I am sitting in the middle of a 2x zone the pickup winds up being out in base rate land.
> 
> So basically, how do I know for sure the ping I am deciding to accept has the multiplier I was hoping to catch?


Each incoming surge request displays the multiplier, such a 1.2x, 1.3x, 1.5x, and so on, up at least into the 8x range.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Boozoo said:


> Pardon me if this seems an obvious question (I'm still getting used to all the app's features). How do you know what the multiplier is when you are looking at a ride request timing out on your screen? Is it just a matter of being real quick to note the pickup address and remembering how far your preferred multiplier zone extends?
> 
> (because once I am in the position of deciding to accept the ping or not I can't see the map anymore.) And anyway... at least half the time I get a ping when I am sitting in the middle of a 2x zone the pickup winds up being out in base rate land.
> 
> So basically, how do I know for sure the ping I am deciding to accept has the multiplier I was hoping to catch?


I don't think the other driver actually answered this part of your question, although he did give good advice on how to maximize the chance of it being a surge in the first place.

But no, don't go just by the address, or even the pax app (which often is no longer surging, or is at a lower rate). When the ping comes in look for a lightning bolt and a multiplier. If you accept it, check to see if it's a surge trip also.

Here's a not very good pic of the ping, showing a surge (depending on the phone it may look a little different). See the bottom of the screen? Maybe someone can show an accepted trip with surge and explain how to get to that screen?


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## Boozoo (Oct 1, 2016)

Thank you Greguzzi and Fuzzyelvis...I was in the midst just now of refining my question, and here you are with the exact thing I was looking for...I guess maybe I am being flummoxed by the time pressure of making a decision before it times out...but I have not seen this multiplier you speak of, on the request timeout screen. I will try to look more carefully next time, instead of just accepting and hoping (sheepish grin).

[edit...what is that 4.9* there, the rating of the rider making the request?]


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## Boozoo (Oct 1, 2016)

MemphisDave, thank you for your insights, lots of good information and ideas there. I'll be able to apply some of it...but I don't think I am ready to take on the closing time crowd just yet


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Boozoo said:


> Thank you Greguzzi and Fuzzyelvis...I was in the midst just now of refining my question, and here you are with the exact thing I was looking for...I guess maybe I am being flummoxed by the time pressure of making a decision before it times out...but I have not seen this multiplier you speak of, on the request timeout screen. I will try to look more carefully next time, instead of just accepting and hoping (sheepish grin).
> 
> [edit...what is that 4.9* there, the rating of the rider making the request?]


Yes. Almost all the info you need to make an informed decision is there. The address, for a new driver, is secondary. Eventually you learn the addresses like Walmart that you may not want, but at first get used to the app.

I would not accept anything under 4.7 because lower rated pax rate you lower, and if you're new that matters as your rating can take a nosedive very quickly. Some may even say 4.8.


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## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price.


This is where your analogy breaks down. One driver driving during surge pricing can not be equated with buying up all the generators prior to a hurricane. There are other generators (drivers) around and there are plenty of other transportation options available to passengers.

Completely forgotten here is that the driver is risking his life to drive at all during a hurricane and really should be substantially rewarded with hazard pay for risking his safety. Isn't his life -- and yours -- worth a higher fare?


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## MemphisDave (May 5, 2016)

Boozoo said:


> MemphisDave, thank you for your insights, lots of good information and ideas there. I'll be able to apply some of it...but I don't think I am ready to take on the closing time crowd just yet


Perhaps there was some bite of knowledge there that will serve you, but I am still learning myself...so nothing there to be taken as absolute. However, I'm more than happy to share my experience. I jumped right into the closing time crowd and that may or may not have been the best idea. I've been surprisingly pleased that, although most are intoxicated, they're just fine to deal with. Drunk is not a problem with me, only aggressive / angry (and I've been fortunate to never have been in a situation where I felt physically threatened or otherwise in actual danger). It helps that I'm 6-1, 350, and a former cop...but I've never had to even really be stern with anyone that I can recall. But I think you are making the right call to stick within your comfort zone -- especially as you are learning the "process". Enjoy yourself and try not to become crabby -- that's my advice to you. PAX can sense it and it just takes away the best part of the job. When this is no longer fun, it's no longer for me. Until then, I'll continue studying advanced surge maximization, lol.


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## Uber Jason (Sep 9, 2016)

What about riders that manipulate the surge by requesting a ride during a high surge? Get a driver to come to them and when they're a block away cancel the trip to only rerequest it again to avoid paying the surge. 

Watch for this trick and don't pick these people up. I've head of people cancelling while in the car too. Watch out for these shenanigans.


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## OneDay (Mar 19, 2016)

You should report that rider to Uber and they will look into it and see if it's a driver too.


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## CrazyT (Jul 2, 2016)

renbutler said:


> If an emergency is declared, it's generally illegal to mark up prices.
> 
> But, again, that has nothing to do with 99.9% of ride-sharing activities.


Here during a bad snow storm there was still a surge, but it was capped. Of course once the storm got to a certain point everyone was off the road and no one not in an emergency vehicle was permitted out.


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

Fireguyva said:


> So consider this scenario... After hurricane passes you as a contractor go to bid on repair work. Because the damage is wide spread there is more work than there are contractors. Is it ok to mark your bid up 2x or should you still bid with the normal price parameters?


Yes, because they know local building codes, and most modern laws prevent fly by night contracts coming in and ripping people off. So those same amount of contractors now have 10x the work to do. Welcome to supply & demand capitalism


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

Robertk said:


> OP needs a lesson in basic economics


Indeed, good post, the OP needs to keep driving for table scraps. Must be new, wait until winter rate cuts


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)




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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

Uber Jason said:


> What about riders that manipulate the surge by requesting a ride during a high surge? Get a driver to come to them and when they're a block away cancel the trip to only rerequest it again to avoid paying the surge.
> 
> Watch for this trick and don't pick these people up. I've head of people cancelling while in the car too. Watch out for these shenanigans.


Yeah, had those happen to me my first month. Drivers have to learn how to deal with passengers, Uber politics, and make a profit. Or they quit before the month is up, too many propaganda lies to navigate!


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

Robertk said:


>


Adult economics version of Goldilocks?


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

Fireguy50 said:


> Yeah, had those happen to me my first month. Drivers have to learn how to deal with passengers, Uber politics, and make a profit. Or they quit before the month is up, too many propaganda lies to navigate!


I owe my modest success with this whole ridesharing thing to the vast no bullshit knowledge this forum provides. minus the "everything is sunshine and roses, uber on!" propaganda.

Cheers to the founders.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> Supply and demand. Thats exactly what surge is. Also theres nothing wrong with building supply for future demand, thats business in a nutshell. Stop having a worker mentality and start having a business mentality.
> 
> The only thing unethical was back when i heard drivers were communicating with eachother in order to manipulate surge. Thats a bit more like insider trading. Simply logging off and on to try to catch good surge, individually, is just prodent business as long as you are not conspiring directly with other drivers to achieve it.


I agree with you except that it is not conspiring for drivers to decide to set their price at whatever they want and its within their rights to communicate what their price is to anyone listening. Unions do exactly what you are talking about by organizing workers and setting the price for their work.

We have no union to protect us or do the price setting for us but we have the free market and our ability to analyse what fares are worth by looking at what the competition is selling them for.

A burrito only cost a taco shop a couple bucks to make so why does every burrito cost average $6? Is that a burrito price fixing conspiracy or the going rate?


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

renbutler said:


> If an emergency is declared, it's generally illegal to mark up prices.
> 
> But, again, that has nothing to do with 99.9% of ride-sharing activities.


then why did you post that? just like to read your own comments eh...


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

BaitNSwitch said:


> I owe my modest success with this whole ridesharing thing to the vast no bullshit knowledge this forum provides. minus the "everything is sunshine and roses, uber on!" propaganda.
> 
> Cheers to the founders.


Success would actually fall in the middle between the propaganda at _both extremes.
_
And there is plenty on both sides.

You know you're in the right place when you are simultaneously called an Uber shill and an Uber hater.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

I think you're just confused sometimes.


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## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price. On a smaller scale of course. Do a honest days work for honest days pay. If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


Drivers cannot push up rates, so this whole thread is moot.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

I just set my price based on my analysis of the surge situation. Lots of factors are weighed before determining the multiplier I will go online for and it can change in an instant depending on real-time ground conditions.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Agent99 said:


> Drivers cannot push up rates, so this whole thread is moot.


That's exactly what they're doing when they refuse to drive at a lower rate, and a surge occurs as a result.


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price. On a smaller scale of course. Do a honest days work for honest days pay. If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


IF ubers rates were AN HONEST DAYS WORK, but they aren't, they are too low for profit, NO SURGE NO RIDE. You must be those dummy ants taking regular fare rides on a Monday morning. MAKE PAX PAY ON MONDAY AND FRIDAY MORNINGS.


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## UGJaelRose (Sep 20, 2016)

No different than riders waiting for surge to end


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## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

renbutler said:


> That's exactly what they're doing when they refuse to drive at a lower rate, and a surge occurs as a result.


You keep saying that but offer no evidence.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

???

Surges aren't random, guy.

Refusing to drive isn't the direct reason why every surge occurs, but it's the same concept: there aren't enough drivers to satisfy the demand in a certain area at a certain time, so the price goes up. And if there aren't enough drivers there, it's because the pricing isn't high enough to entice enough people to be on the road at that time.

Whether each individual driver actually makes the conscious effort not to drive at that moment because of the prices is irrelevant.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Drivers don't push up the price. Demand does. No business person who has any long term success will flood the market with supply. Why would I want to add more supply to a market that doesn't need it. The prices and my profit will fall if I do that.


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## Agent99 (Nov 4, 2015)

renbutler said:


> ???
> 
> Surges aren't random, guy.
> 
> ...


Yes, that's how demand pricing works, supply of online drivers vs. demand by passengers who want rides.

Regarding supply, Uber drivers are not legally, contractually, or morally required to be available to work (be online) at any particular time, or accept a particular ride request. As independent contractors, we choose when we work, and we choose what rides we accept.

To suggest that a driver is unethical because he decides not to logon to the system at certain times first assumes that there is some requirement about when he is supposed to be online in the first place.

To suggest that a driver is unethical because he decides not to accept a particular ride request (such as a ride request without premium pricing) first assumes that there is some requirement he has to accept that ride request in the first place.


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

It's gonna come to a point when drivers won't accept non surge, riders won't hop in at surge...

Like those awkward high school dances where they girls and boys were too shy to dance with each other even though they were itching to do it and stood at opposite sides of the gymnasium..

Ahh...high school, what an awkward phase of life.


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

renbutler said:


> Success would actually fall in the middle between the propaganda at _both extremes.
> _
> And there is plenty on both sides.
> 
> You know you're in the right place when you are simultaneously called an Uber shill and an Uber hater.


Valid point. Although on average, there's more negativity than positivity. And for good reason. I know every gig has its downsides, but in this one the downside is 2 to 1 to the possible upsides.

Downsides: Puke, destroy car, strange customers/potentially threatening situations, only way to make decent money is on weekend/holidays, crappy base rates, liability, lying to your insurance company, occupational hazard via other drivers/bad weather conditions, employer indifference.
Upside: Flexible work hours, the rare surge jackpots. Anyone care to add anything i missed lol?


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Agent99 said:


> Yes, that's how demand pricing works, supply of online drivers vs. demand by passengers who want rides.
> 
> Regarding supply, Uber drivers are not legally, contractually, or morally required to be available to work (be online) at any particular time, or accept a particular ride request. As independent contractors, we choose when we work, and we choose what rides we accept.
> 
> ...


Wait, did you think that I was agreeing with the original post in some way? Because clearly I wasn't.

Of course it's not unethical to turn down rides or doesn't log in. No serious person would suggest it is unethical.

You were simply incorrect when you said that drivers don't have the power to drive up the surge. Of course they do! That's why I disagreed with you.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

BaitNSwitch said:


> It's gonna come to a point when drivers won't accept non surge, riders won't hop in at surge...
> 
> Like those awkward high school dances where they girls and boys were too shy to dance with each other even though they were itching to do it and stood at opposite sides of the gymnasium..
> 
> Ahh...high school, what an awkward phase of life.


Well, every driver and rider has a different breaking point. Surely Uber wouldn't let it get to the point where zero riders and drivers will agree to the same price. And we're really not approaching that point yet, as evidenced by the fact that there is no surge the vast majority of the time.


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## Jimmy Bernat (Apr 12, 2016)

If Uber was paying $1.40 and .25 cents a mile like it should be drivers wouldn't have to work the surge 
Instead in my market it's $1 a mile and 14 cents a minute for UberX

That's just too low to make money on . I don't log on to UberX until surge hits a minimum of 1.6x but usually I stay select only until it's over 2x


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## Greguzzi (Jan 9, 2016)

Robertk said:


>


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

renbutler said:


> That's exactly what they're doing when they refuse to drive at a lower rate, and a surge occurs as a result.


Free Agency. Let the Billionaire investors and $110,000/year execs figure it out. People do it because . . . [insert the hundreds of legit gripes here].


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

ubercharlie said:


> This is Uber's business model.
> 
> 1. Make as much as you want, you decide how many hours you want to work.
> 2. No office, No Boss. Drive at times that work for you.
> ...


But can you make a flying boat of 10 tons of plywood ?


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Personally, I don't see the issue. You can be on app when you want. Be off app when you want.


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## Uber Jason (Sep 9, 2016)

Honestly in my opinion. If your only waiting to drive surges you're missing out on a lot of rides and money. My gauge of success is how often my car has a rider in it. If I have a constant stream of riders then I'm happy and making money. Sitting there dead waiting for a surge is just a waste of my time. If I'm lucky enough to get a surge then I'm happy. Perhaps where I live in Indianapolis this is the way it works. Areas just don't surge for very long. If I'm not close to a surge I'm not going to chase them. I only do this gig part time and I only have limited hours I can work. If I'm idle during those hours I'm losing money.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

Uber Jason said:


> Honestly in my opinion. If your only waiting to drive surges you're missing out on a lot of rides and money. My gauge of success is how often my car has a rider in it.


yep...

As an example, last weekend there was a big college football game. Demand was expected to be high, and it was! I could see the surge zone several miles away from me and if I wanted to I could have gone offline, fought the traffic to get to the designated pick up spot, and gotten a nice surge fare. But that ride may have been only a few blocks. Better to simply take two or more normal fares from where I was than to go offline until I could time the surge.

'A bird in hand is better than two in the bush'- so I usually take whatever fare I can get from wherever I happen to be, surge or not.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

Robertk said:


> yep...
> 
> As an example, last weekend there was a big college football game. Demand was expected to be high, and it was! I could see the surge zone several miles away from me and if I wanted to I could have gone offline, fought the traffic to get to the designated pick up spot, and gotten a nice surge fare. But that ride may have been only a few blocks. Better to simply take two or more normal fares from where I was than to go offline until I could time the surge.
> 
> 'A bird in hand is better than two in the bush'- so I usually take whatever fare I can get from wherever I happen to be, surge or not.


No way in hell would I give away base rate rides when there is a high surging event that close to me. Having a higher quantity of rides or peeps constantly in your car doesn't necessarily make you more money, especially when most will net you $10 or less, (often far less) I've driven to events 30 min to 1hr away anticipating high demand, and almost every time my hourly rate and per mile earnings, including commute time and dead miles, were much higher than had I stayed home and done base rate rides. Even while sitting empty waiting.

When events are in my backyard, fuggetaboutit


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

Uber Jason said:


> Honestly in my opinion. If your only waiting to drive surges you're missing out on a lot of rides and money. My gauge of success is how often my car has a rider in it. If I have a constant stream of riders then I'm happy and making money. Sitting there dead waiting for a surge is just a waste of my time. If I'm lucky enough to get a surge then I'm happy. Perhaps where I live in Indianapolis this is the way it works. Areas just don't surge for very long. If I'm not close to a surge I'm not going to chase them. I only do this gig part time and I only have limited hours I can work. If I'm idle during those hours I'm losing money.


I agree with not chasing surges if you're not close to them. I also do this only part time but still won't do it I can get minimum of $20/hr before expenses. Depending on other factors, my minimum goes up. The key is to know where surge is likely to occur and to be positioned before it happens. You want to time your arrival just as the surge is building and right before it peaks.

You want to avoid being there too early to avoid sitting idle too long and then being tempted to take a base or low surge rate. And you don't wanna get there after its reached the peak otherwise you'll get nothing or a base rate rider who didn't want to pay up earlier

Give base rate rides in between if you know an area won't surge for a while, but you will make more money if you just sit and wait right before last call, end of concert, etc.


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## Slim Pete (Nov 21, 2014)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price. On a smaller scale of course. Do a honest days work for honest days pay. If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


You fail to see the broad picture. No point arguing with you.

You're like the kid who thinks Daddy hates him, because he forces him to do his homework.

But anyway, you're a gem to Travis. He needs more sheep to drive for his 1970s cab rates, while feeling guilty to manipulate surge to earn more. And you fit the bill perfectly.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

hulksmash said:


> No way in hell would I give away base rate rides when there is a high surging event that close to me. Having a higher quantity of rides or peeps constantly in your car doesn't necessarily make you more money, especially when most will net you $10 or less, (often far less) I've driven to events 30 min to 1hr away anticipating high demand, and almost every time my hourly rate and per mile earnings, including commute time and dead miles, were much higher than had I stayed home and done base rate rides. Even while sitting empty waiting.
> 
> When events are in my backyard, fuggetaboutit


the problem with surge events is getting TO the event. That particular event has a designated Uber pickup area that is difficult to get to, and thus takes a long time to arrive. And, from experience, most of the rides from that surge pickup zone are only a mile or two in length.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Slim Pete said:


> You fail to see the broad picture. No point arguing with you.
> 
> You're like the kid who thinks Daddy hates him, because he forces him to do his homework.
> 
> But anyway, you're a gem to Travis. He needs more sheep to drive for his 1950s cab rates, while feeling guilty to manipulate surge to earn more. And you fit the bill perfectly.


1970s cab rates.
Uberites have far too high self esteem to Uber for 1950s cab rates.


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## Slim Pete (Nov 21, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> 1970s cab rates.
> Uberites have far too high self esteem to Uber for 1950s cab rates.


LOL, ok, I'll correct it.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Slim Pete said:


> LOL, ok, I'll correct it.


No need, friend.
Twofiddymile
Mentor


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## yojimboguy (Mar 2, 2016)

The OP is not _asking_ us if it's unethical, he's _telling_ us it's unethical.

That is deception, and in my opinion, UNETHICAL!


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## Oscarthegrouch (Jun 14, 2016)

I always work in and around downtown on Friday and Saturday nights. The bars close at 2 am so around 1:30 or so I'll go offline. As I head to my favorite waiting area I always see drivers picking up at the bars right before the surge hits. Why in the hell would you drive for peanuts when with in minutes you could be making 2, 3, or 4 times the money? SMH!


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

Robertk said:


> the problem with surge events is getting TO the event. That particular event has a designated Uber pickup area that is difficult to get to, and thus takes a long time to arrive. And, from experience, most of the rides from that surge pickup zone are only a mile or two in length.


Yea have had those as well. I've had nice long rides from those as well. The places with Uber zones are the worst since ants will be online while waiting to get in when surge hasn't built up yet. That's why you must wait till surge build up long enough to make the per min rate sitting in traffic tolerable, and to hedge against shorties. If you get even one good long ride at high rate out of it it can be worth it


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Oscarthegrouch said:


> I always work in and around downtown on Friday and Saturday nights. The bars close at 2 am so around 1:30 or so I'll go offline. As I head to my favorite waiting area I always see drivers picking up at the bars right before the surge hits. Why in the hell would you drive for peanuts when with in minutes you could be making 2, 3, or 4 times the money? SMH!


I've always had to wonder about that as well. At 1:30, I'm not going to take a chance that it's a long ride to nowhere and I can't get back in time to catch 2 peak rides. We typically max out at 3 or 3.5x on a really busy Sat night so at 1:30 I'll only take a gamble on a Select or min. 2X fare, hoping it's a quick one so I can get back for more fish. Too many ants who don't understand the game though so you usually just have to wait them out.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Oscarthegrouch said:


> I always work in and around downtown on Friday and Saturday nights. The bars close at 2 am so around 1:30 or so I'll go offline. As I head to my favorite waiting area I always see drivers picking up at the bars right before the surge hits. Why in the hell would you drive for peanuts when with in minutes you could be making 2, 3, or 4 times the money? SMH!


THAT's the way to do it! . . . especially if you're providing a service to grown adults who _*decide*_ to get too intoxicated to drive themselves home!


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## kevink (Apr 18, 2016)

Oscarthegrouch said:


> I always work in and around downtown on Friday and Saturday nights. The bars close at 2 am so around 1:30 or so I'll go offline. As I head to my favorite waiting area I always see drivers picking up at the bars right before the surge hits. Why in the hell would you drive for peanuts when with in minutes you could be making 2, 3, or 4 times the money? SMH!


I've seen it happen and it makes no sense to me...Anyway, if I am a fair distance from an area I know will typically surge when the bars close, I will use the destination filter to get rides going in that general direction. Pays my way to a lucrative spot, go offline until the map turns red, then go online and ride the surge.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Fireguyva said:


> Ive noticed that in my area drivers will log out but stay on app until surge goes up. You can sit and watch them click on then back off hoping to snag a ride before surge goes down. I think this is unethical. I equate it to someone buying up all generators during a hurricane and selling them for twice the price. On a smaller scale of course. Do a honest days work for honest days pay. If you're not happy with what Uber/Lyft pays, do something else. What say you?


What about when a rider cancels on a driver that's been dispatched to them so they can wait a few minutes until the surge goes away? Is that unfair as well ?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Robertk said:


> OP needs a lesson in basic economics


So does Uber. Uber sets rates all the way down at the Q*.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

so... a hurricane is about to hit the east coast and in this very thread the hurricane scenario is discussed.

There are no reports of hoarding or of price gouging. But there ARE reports of shortages- gas, water, and plywood have run out in various locations. Just goes to show the laws of economics cannot be bypassed. When prices are held artificially low ( eg laws against price gouging) shortages are the inevitable result.










a


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

But that's why price gouging applies only to emergency situations.

Instead of jacking up prices so that only the most well-off can get the supplies, they need to anticipate ways to bolster supplies when emergency situations are impending.

And, sure, that's probably easier said than done...


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Robertk said:


> so... a hurricane is about to hit the east coast and in this very thread the hurricane scenario is discussed.
> 
> There are no reports of hoarding or of price gouging. But there ARE reports of shortages- gas, water, and plywood have run out in various locations. Just goes to show the laws of economics cannot be bypassed. When prices are held artificially low ( eg laws against price gouging) shortages are the inevitable result.
> 
> ...


Which explains why Uber needs so many grinding ants out there and offers so many subsidies. The service is under priced.


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## Robertk (Jun 8, 2015)

DriverX said:


> Which explains why Uber needs so many grinding ants out there and offers so many subsidies. The service is under priced.


that seems correct- Uber cannot possibly sustain these prices without heavily subsidizing drivers through incentives.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

But that's still pay from Uber. It's not like it's a government subsidy propping them up.

They don't want to pay boost/surge/incentive/"subsidy" prices when demand is low, but why would they?

So they have a base rate and increase it when needed to meet demand.

We don't have to like it, but it makes all kinds of business sense.


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## Tenzo (Jan 25, 2016)

renbutler said:


> But that's why price gouging applies only to emergency situations.
> 
> Instead of jacking up prices so that only the most well-off ...


The "well off" dont ride Uber.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

renbutler said:


> But that's still pay from Uber. It's not like it's a government subsidy propping them up.
> 
> They don't want to pay boost/surge/incentive/"subsidy" prices when demand is low, but why would they?
> 
> ...


Yes on the surge, no on the boost. Although not from the government, it is still a way to keep prices low for riders, and driver pay lower, since surge often exceeds boost rates without Uber interference. For as much as Uber likes gving money away to spoil pax, they know they can't sustain it forever, hence the continuous lowering of boosts. If they'd just raise the base rate, surges would be lower and less often, and everyone would be happy


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

Tenzo said:


> The "well off" dont ride Uber.


We were talking about supply and demand in emergency situations, such as we have with hurricanes, not Uber.

But now that you bring it up, I've picked up at some very large houses in very nice areas. So, I disagree strongly with your post.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

hulksmash said:


> Yes on the surge, no on the boost. Although not from the government, it is still a way to keep prices low for riders, and driver pay lower, since surge often exceeds boost rates without Uber interference. For as much as Uber likes gving money away to spoil pax, they know they can't sustain it forever, hence the continuous lowering of boosts. *If they'd just raise the base rate, surges would be lower and less often, and everyone would be happy*


But then they'd be charging an unnecessarily high rate for a bunch of off-peak hours.


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## ubercharlie (Sep 14, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> But can you make a flying boat of 10 tons of plywood ?


Howard Hughes made the Hercules, an behemoth aircraft capable of water landings in 1947.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

renbutler said:


> But then they'd be charging an unnecessarily high rate for a bunch of off-peak hours.


Here in LA, and I imagine in other large metro areas, there were constant surges all day long after the recent rate cuts, and it only stopped because Uber began paying guarantees and boosts out of pocket. Sure enough, as soon as those started dwindling, surge crept up all over the city again

The fact there needs to be either surge or boost almost all the time to keep drivers on the road indicates that the current rates are not sustainable, even in so called off peak times


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