# Reality is hard



## ChesterCountyUber (Jun 17, 2016)

Apparently, if you have noticed a correlation between low ratings and people of a given ethnicity, socio-economic class, gender, gender identity, language, tatoo having/not having, etc...., it didn't really happen. Political correctness is alive and well on this board and another example of freedom of speech being trampled in the name of "fairness". What a joke.


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

I'm curious what specifically led you to posting this comment. I'm new to this forum so I can't agree or disagree about this forum's attitude, but if your statement is true I am not the least bit surprised. I've been UberXing almost 3 years in SF. I take it for granted that being a fairly handsome white man certainly helps my rating. I'm a bit Aspergy, so not the most personable personality. I'm great at polite, but I don't return cordiality to people who show up 4 minutes late and pretend nothing happened. I just can't bring myself to do it, 5 star be damned. I began driving during a very tragic year in my life. After the initial putting all my positive energy into my attitude, and establishing a stable 4.82, I had a falling off and had some really terrible days. My rating plummeted and leveled out at 4.73. I assume it was my bad attitude, which I just couldn't help. The correlation is just too coincidental. Also, a concerted effort later on brought it gradually back up. Never below 4.73 though, despite me being severely unpleasant (I wasn't verbally abusing anyone or anything, just really hating life and it showed).
A fair looking white man with a serious and stern attitude though, is at least visually respectable even though smug SFians definitely expect you to be _positive_. PC people: just imagine if a black man was sitting in that driver's seat visibly giving off: "goddamn all you people and your stupid happy lives" vibes, as I was doing. Just because you may not think you make these prejudiced judgements doesn't mean many of us out there _aren't_ human like you, and it's how human brains work. If you are afraid to consider the possibility, as this poster says happens here, you probably haven't learned to override this tendency and would rather just not talk about it because it makes you uncomfortable, or you're just sick of hearing about it. That's another white luxury, to just ignore it because it doesn't hurt you, but it actually does affect some and they can't ignore it so easily (though they can try for peace of mind's sake). It's impossible to grow up in America without feeling these things. I have no doubt it's way easier for me to maintain decent ratings because I'm white. The fact that the PC police are so quick to discredit such discussion kind of shows it still matters. Someone brought up driving a luxury vehicle versus a "typical UberX vehicle" and compared the ratings over two week periods. Replies there criticized the method of experiment, along with other inane comments, but no one refuted that vehicle quality also affects our ratings, as this poster asserts is the case when it comes to claiming other visuals like race, tattoos, etc do. It isn't like people rationally thought: "this is a luxury car so I'll rate higher, but in normal cars I rate lower than 5". They just felt better about the trip because of the comfort they felt, causing them to overlook the other imperfections in the trip that they didn't overlook when in the standard UberX vehicle. 
American people are less comfortable with people of other races (that's been scientifically shown), especially white/black. The other examples given by the poster will also apply here. Some people think people with tattoos are usually criminals (you know some of the geezers still think this way, not anyone under 30 of course). Even those of us who hold no negative beliefs about another race as a whole still _feel_ it, unless certain atypical life experiences have trained one to overcome it. (If you don't understand this, ask yourself why Donald has a 50/50 chance of becoming president next year. And if you actually think fearing Muslims isn't racist, but a rational fear, then I guess that point won't make sense to you.) We're talking about our emotional animal mind, not whether you _think _any particular skin color means anything. Thinking isn't how most people rate. They go by how they feel. As many people as were rating me low because of my dark attitude during that time, unfairly I believe because I did the job just as well (you should _tip_ if you want someone stroking your ego with faux friendliness, am I right?), I can easily imagine _if I were_ black, tattooed, etc, that many more who _did_ still gave me 5 stars during that time (because they might actually have a bit of empathy for someone who looks like they're suffering, instead of thinking they're entitled to everyone being extra nice to them at all times), would have _felt_ less good in the car without realizing it was because I was black, tattooed, etc, and would also have given me a lower rating. I only went down from 4.82-4.73 before it stopped going down, and I stayed at 4.73 for several weeks before I did my concerted effort to turn it around. I'm pretty sure the rest of my driving was about the same as always, except a bit better than the beginning due to experience.
And of course, my example doesn't _prove_ anything, but I personally agree with the poster, that this kind of attitude isn't good. And it probably hurts those on the forum who are affected negatively by this "hard reality". So I wanted to add my two cents because it's an interesting topic to me. And I think it's mean for the white majority to dictate: "this possibility will not be considered, it doesn't happen, so don't bring it up". Maybe "Tyrone" is sick of being nice and not being able to break that 4.8 barrier, while white handsome guys with RayBans on, who are bitter and reticent, comfortably sit above 4.8. I saw an LA times article where a rider was quoted, after having ridden with a driver who had to blow into a tube to ensure he wasn't drinking, "I live tweeted this, because I wasn't sure if I'd be dead soon." Really, *****?! You thought that because your driver probably had DWIs in the past meant you might die today (ironically, he is _less_ likely to be drunk than any of the other drivers because he just blew into a tube to prove it, but maybe she thinks this makes him a murderer too....Iiii don't know what she meant), but there were similar quotes by other women in the same circumstance, so my point is that some of the people rating us are stooopid, so of course some guy driving with an accent, or tattoo sleeves, is going to annoy or worry them and cause them to rate lower than a nice looking white guy who are otherwise identical in their cab driving performance Uber/cab, whatever, same task). Ask yourself how often you've seen a black guy running down the sidewalk and felt suspicious, but a white guy is running and you don't think/feel anything except that he's in a hurry. No really, be honest, or pay attention over the next year and notice the difference inside if you can't recall.

How about an informal poll. How many of you minorities, who are socially awkward like me, but otherwise do a consistent job of driving safely, navigating efficiently, & treating people fairly are thinking something like: "what?!....you maintained 4.73 while you were being severely unpleasant all the time?....I have a 4.73 and I'm nice to people."? If you think the assertion that these things affect ratings, then either offer something that refutes it, or go read something else. And if you're white, you really don't know what it's like, other than speculation. So if a minority claims it does, you may doubt it, but you have no chance to go out in the world and experience the difference, so you'll never really know, and it doesn't hurt to listen/read when different people say/write stuff.
This kind of "lack of free speech" prevents any society, including the society of this little forum, from gaining any deeper understanding of how an issue really works...in real life experience, not in our rational minds while we're typing to each other. If we ignore something by automatically dismissing the validity of any statement about it, it doesn't always go away. Even if you're a white person and a black person gets in your car, and you think: "I hope I don't do or say anything that makes them think I'm racist", that _is_ being racist. The discomfort one feels in that situation may lead them to rate lower, because the discomfort transfers to how you see the whole experience without you explicitly realizing it. Some little insignificant driving imperfection may be blown out of proportion in your mind, relieving your discomfort because now you can think "this guy is a bad driver", whereas the nice white person gets 5 stars because you didn't notice imperfection, since imperfection is the norm in life.
Rich people I do feel perfectly comfortable having prejudicial disliking for and stamp one star on every one of them I see outside, but none of them are subjected to being rated like us to maintain their income. They might be thinking that star sticker is a prize, since there aren't 4 empty stars next to it (fail).
And btw, who saw the PC Principle season of South Park? It is great.
If this is too long for this forum, well, just ignore me. I guess it's something I'm passionate about. And also a major source of humor in the world (such as South Park mentioned above).


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## Ubernic (Apr 24, 2016)




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## Louisvilleuberguy (Aug 3, 2016)

ChesterCountyUber said:


> Apparently, if you have noticed a correlation between low ratings and people of a given ethnicity, socio-economic class, gender, gender identity, language, tatoo having/not having, etc...., it didn't really happen. Political correctness is alive and well on this board and another example of freedom of speech being trampled in the name of "fairness". What a joke.


Political correctness is alive and killing our country


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## Louisvilleuberguy (Aug 3, 2016)

I will say this I have 4.8 and have not seen difference in my ratings and I pick up every race...rich...poor...middle class....you...and old. But only had 145 rides. Only 4 that I know who rated it was 3 blind people and honestly I feel lucky they have rated many drivers a 1. They have there own rules to rating and it is impossible for them to give a 5. i just laughed and didn't worry about it. Has no clue how hard it


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

ChesterCountyUber said:


> Apparently, if you have noticed a correlation between low ratings and people of a given ethnicity, socio-economic class, gender, gender identity, language, tatoo having/not having, etc...., it didn't really happen. Political correctness is alive and well on this board and another example of freedom of speech being trampled in the name of "fairness". What a joke.


Hey genius you just posted the definition of bigotry. You're just butt hurt because a racially provocative thread of yours was correctly removed by the mods. I've seen you whine about it in other threads and now this one!

Blaming political correctness is the panacea for weak minded, backward thinking bigots. Your free speech isn't being infringed. Your ideology is being rejected! Join us. All it takes is tolerance and understanding. And no, it isn't ironic to be intolerant of hate.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

kc ub'ing! said:


> Your free speech isn't being infringed. Your ideology is being rejected!


Removing a thread is infringing on free speech, you or I could maintain that such infringement is justified, but in the end it is still infringing on free speech, just that the person removing the thread follows a viewpoint that other concerns (e.g, not promoting racial/religious division) override free speech in certain situations.


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

reg barclay said:


> Removing a thread is infringing on free speech, you or I could maintain that such infringement is justified, but in the end it is still infringing on free speech, just that the person removing the thread follows a viewpoint that other concerns (e.g, not promoting racial/religious division) override free speech in certain situations.


You are incorrect sir. If the removal is justified, in this case removing hate speech, then no infringement has taken place. To infringe is to wrongly limit or restrict something. It was right to remove OP's caca promoting racial division and thus free speech was not infringed.

You may wish to be more considerate of what you choose to defend going forward. To live by the bromide, "while I might disagree with your point of view, I'll fight for your right to express it." is not always honorable or wise. Some viewpoints are so repugnant they're best left unspoken.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

kc ub'ing! said:


> You are incorrect sir. If the removal is justified, in this case removing hate speech, then no infringement has taken place. To infringe is to wrongly limit or restrict something. It was right to remove OP's caca promoting racial division and thus free speech was not infringed.


If you define free speech infringement as only when someone is wrongly limiting free speech, then I think most people/groups who ever limited free speech will turn around and say they didn't wrongly limit free speech because in each case they all thought it was justified. Again I'm not saying it was wrong to remove those threads, just making the point that few of us blanketly support free speech and most of us seem to agree it can be curtailed in certain instances.

I have no idea what was said in the thread(s) under discussion, but just to make it crystal clear I don't support any racist views whatsoever.


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## Strange Fruit (Aug 10, 2016)

Actually, instead of removing the "offensive" post, why not reply to say why it's offensive. If everyone seriously doesn't want it on the forum, they could rationally say just why they don't appreciate it. The removing party is just afraid of what was said. Anyone who doesn't like it doesn't have to participate in the conversation, while those who may value it, can. And if it is sincerely threatening, just say: "I really don't appreciate these kind of comments. And with enough of those responses, the "hate speech" poster can get a clue and realize it isn't welcomed here. If something is just removed, no one else gets to share in it. Seriously, race affects your life. It's real. If you're white, be glad (don't be proud though, you could get in trouble). People whine about stupid crap on this forum, so why can't someone whine about their experience of being affected by racial bias? If it really was just hate speech, everyone can ignore it. I see people hating a certain group on this forum all over the place, though. They call them "Pax", and I don't know what color this group is, but there's a lot of hate speech about them.


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

ChesterCountyUber said:


> Apparently, if you have noticed a correlation between low ratings and people of a given ethnicity, socio-economic class, gender, gender identity, language, tatoo having/not having, etc...., it didn't really happen. Political correctness is alive and well on this board and another example of freedom of speech being trampled in the name of "fairness". What a joke.


Where's the punchline?


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Strange Fruit said:


> They call them "Pax", and I don't know what color this group is, but there's a lot of hate speech about them.


This strange and fiendish people known as 'Pax' come in all colors, that way they are able blend in and make themselves indistinguishable from humans, something like the 'V'.


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## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

Strange Fruit said:


> Actually, instead of removing the "offensive" post, why not reply to say why it's offensive. If everyone seriously doesn't want it on the forum, they could rationally say just why they don't appreciate it. The removing party is just afraid of what was said. Anyone who doesn't like it doesn't have to participate in the conversation, while those who may value it, can. And if it is sincerely threatening, just say: "I really don't appreciate these kind of comments. And with enough of those responses, the "hate speech" poster can get a clue and realize it isn't welcomed here. If something is just removed, no one else gets to share in it. Seriously, race affects your life. It's real. If you're white, be glad (don't be proud though, you could get in trouble). People whine about stupid crap on this forum, so why can't someone whine about their experience of being affected by racial bias? If it really was just hate speech, everyone can ignore it. I see people hating a certain group on this forum all over the place, though. They call them "Pax", and I don't know what color this group is, but there's a lot of hate speech about them.


This may comes as a surprise to you, Strange Fruit, but some things are better left unsaid or perhaps that person ch0se not to expend the energy necessary to argue with an idiot!


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## Reversoul (Feb 8, 2016)

I have a lot of strong opinions on this subject, but I'm not touching this with a 10 ft pole. 

To the OP, how about tomorrow you post a thread about religion or abortion...


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Ms.Doe said:


> This may comes as a surprise to you, Strange Fruit, but some things are better left unsaid or perhaps that person ch0se not to expend the energy necessary to argue with an idiot!


Sharp [email protected]!


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

It is what it is. As an older white male who looks like he must have an NRA card in his wallet and a Trump hat on his hat stand, I am aware that my rating will always take a ding with certain passengers. I look like the personification of what they believe the cause of their every problem is, and this is their cheap revenge. 

Please, one star me so I will never see you again. I'll continue to do my job to my usual excellent standards, with all passengers of all kinds.


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## ChesterCountyUber (Jun 17, 2016)

Wow, you guys know exactly who I am and what I stand for simply by reading my post. Awesome. Actually, I had simply posted that I had noticed a pattern in my personall experience where people from a certain part of the world rated me lower than others. I asked if anyone else had noticed the same so that I would know if I was being ridiculous or if others had noticed a similar pattern.

From my post you have deduced that I am an NRA Trump supporter over the age of sixty. That's a lot of BIAS and STEREOTYPING from those posters, their posts should be removed immediately.

Now, the second matter is that while my post on the nationality was removed, there are numerous threads here about women being xyz, etc... and those posts are allowed to stand. I guess it's only "discriminatory" when you name a nationality. There is no consistency in the enforcement of the alleged "standards" this board has against discriminatory posts. I can find plenty of other examples of "discrimination" that are allowed to proceed here if I just search a little bit.

Now I'm off to clean my gun while wearing my Trump T-shirt at the octogenarians club.


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

ChesterCountyUber, can't believe you just went to the, 'there's other offensive posts. how come my offensive post was taken down but they weren't?' card! That whiny tactic is strictly for kids! "Jane had a cookie, why I have one?" "How come Tommy gets to go swimming and I cant?" That's weak sauce playa! You are embarrassing yourself.


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## The Mollusk (Feb 13, 2016)

reg barclay said:


> If you define free speech infringement as only when someone is wrongly limiting free speech, then I think most people/groups who ever limited free speech will turn around and say they didn't wrongly limit free speech because in each case they all thought it was justified. Again I'm not saying it was wrong to remove those threads, just making the point that few of us blanketly support free speech and most of us seem to agree it can be curtailed in certain instances.
> 
> I have no idea what was said in the thread(s) under discussion, but just to make it crystal clear I don't support any racist views whatsoever.


Just a friendly reminder , you do not have free speech on this forum.


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## novadrivergal (Oct 8, 2015)

Commenting on racially related trends in rating or tipping is not racist.

I've noted that foreign Asian tourists never rate 5* and sit in silent condemnation. Americans of Asian extraction, no such issue, no different from anyone else.

Most high-maintenance, pain-in-the-butt pax: groups of young black women. Individuals, no problem. Older, no problem. Couples, no problem. Most respectful, delightful, zero-problem pax of all are people of color going to/from work. 

This stuff isn't racial, it's cultural, although the two things do comingle. Let's see if this post gets pulled.


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## A T (Aug 3, 2016)

I think were all forgetting the point of the forum. To constructively vent our frustrations within the forum and to come up with ideas and solutions that can help us ALL out.


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

novadrivergal said:


> Commenting on racially related trends in rating or tipping is not racist.
> 
> I've noted that foreign Asian tourists never rate 5* and sit in silent condemnation. Americans of Asian extraction, no such issue, no different from anyone else.
> 
> ...


You unwittingly exposed yourself here! We cannot see culture, we do see race. You didn't recognize your Asian pax as Asian because of cultural distinction. It was simply the way they looked!

Any statement used with a racial modifier is offensive and can be dangerous. I've had wonderful experiences with human beings that fit into the categories you denigrate above. I've also had negative experiences with all types of people. But unlike you, I don't generalize or condemn based simply on the most obvious characteristic: race. It's stupid.


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## ChesterCountyUber (Jun 17, 2016)

I can see culture. You must not have a lot of experience living in other countries. I can tell people are from a given country by the way the act, the things they say and more, even where there is no racial component. I can also identify race and can have life experience dealing with many members of a given race. Finally, I actually learn from my life experiences, I don't pretend things didn't happen because they don't fit some BS PC narrative. I will make my decisions in life on what I actually experience, not on what somebody tells me I'm supposed to think.


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Funny how your travels haven't made you more tolerant, sensitive or smart.


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## ChesterCountyUber (Jun 17, 2016)

Thanks Mother Teresa/Gandhi/Confucius rolled into one. Were your insults part of your enlightened and sensitive nature?


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## novadrivergal (Oct 8, 2015)

I characterize someone as an "Asian tourist" when it's obvious from their unfamiliarity with the surroundings, inability to talk to me and speaking of a foreign language in the back seat. I am not imagining that my rating goes down any time I pick up this type of pax.

You can always see race and sometimes you can see culture.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

novadrivergal said:


> Commenting on racially related trends in rating or tipping is not racist.
> 
> I've noted that foreign Asian tourists never rate 5* and sit in silent condemnation. Americans of Asian extraction, no such issue, no different from anyone else.
> 
> ...


People of all kinds going to or from work are no problem.

The only category that I would say there is a higher incidence of problem with are intoxicated young people. That's as far as the ride goes, the rating is something different. Most people like that don't rate at all.


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