# Uber Manager Sobs on Stand During Trial



## MHR (Jul 23, 2017)

*Uber manager sobs on stand during trial over wheelchair accessibility*

Uber rested its case in a bench trial over federal disability access laws Monday after arguing it would cost too much to make rides available to motorized wheelchair users in two Gulf cities.

NICHOLAS IOVINO / January 24, 2022








​
SAN FRANCISCO (CN) — An Uber manager cried on the witness stand Monday when confronted with claims that the ride-hail giant doesn’t care that much about making its service accessible to people who need motorized wheelchairs to get around.

“I think that’s untrue,” Uber’s manager for premium products Connor Fagent said, choking back tears. “I’ve devoted most of my time at Uber working on the program and putting a lot of effort to try to make it work … and I take a lot of pride in my work.”

Fagent testified on the last day of a virtual bench trial that will determine if Uber’s failure to introduce wheelchair-accessible vehicle (WAV) programs in New Orleans and Jackson, Mississippi, violates the Americans with Disabilities Act.

The ADA requires companies make reasonable efforts to provide “equivalent” service to what’s offered to able-bodied customers, but Uber claims it would cost too much and be utterly unreasonable to make it offer accessible rides in the two Gulf Coast cities.

Uber spent nearly $57 million to operate WAV programs in 11 U.S. cities and Toronto in 2020, but the company says running such a program in New Orleans or Jackson would be extremely cost inefficient due to smaller populations and lower demand for accessible rides.

Fagent testified that it would cost Uber more than $400 per trip to operate a WAV program with a commercial fleet partner in New Orleans and more than $1,000 per trip in Jackson. That’s compared to the $187-per-ride average Uber pays to offer WAV service in other cities.

Last week, a transportation economist testified Uber could cover the costs of operating WAV programs in New Orleans and Jackson by charging an extra 10 cents for rides in those cities.

Fagent rebutted that claim Monday, noting that a 10-cent surcharge would generate about $500,000 per year in New Orleans, less than the $800,000 per year it would cost to run the program with a commercial fleet partner.

Beyond collaborations with firms that employ drivers, the plaintiffs also argued Uber could use other methods, such as monetary incentives, to add more accessible cars to its fleets in both cities.

Fagent and his superior, rider and airport operations director Niraj Patel, testified that bonus programs failed to boost the number of accessible vehicles in other cities because the costs of buying, renting and maintaining WAVs are still too high for most drivers.

“There’s not a large existing supply of people with personal WAVs so there’s not people for those incentives to reach,” Patel said.

Leasing programs also proved unsuccessful in increasing the supply of WAV rides in other urban centers because most drivers don’t want to be locked into a long-term lease, Patel said.

“We found leases were not particularly attractive to drivers,” he said.

According to Patel, Uber prioritizes launching Uber WAV programs in cities that are larger in size, where public funding is available and where local governments require it by law. He said New Orleans is outside of Uber’s top 30 cities for ride requests, and Jackson is far lower down the list.

“As we try to prioritize that $50 million or so that we’re willing to invest, Jackson and New Orleans haven’t risen as markets that should be priority,” Patel said.

On cross-examination, plaintiffs’ attorney Garret DeReus asked Patel who decided that Uber could spend no more than $50 million on its WAV programs.

“It’s a decision a group of people make together as we look at the entire budget for our business,” Patel said.

DeReus pointed out that Uber has $6.5 billion in unrestricted cash or cash equivalents according to recent securities filings. He also noted that Uber spent $800 million to help drivers transition to electric vehicles and provided 10 million free rides and food deliveries during the Covid-19 pandemic.

When cross-examining Patel’s subordinate Fagent, DeReus asked if expanding Uber WAV to New Orleans and Jackson further the company’s mission of “bringing reliable transportation to everyone, everywhere."

“I think it would be difficult for the reasons I laid out before,” Fagent replied.

“If this court were to order Uber to provide Uber WAV in New Orleans and Jackson, wouldn’t you agree that you and your team know how to take the steps necessary to make Uber WAV available in those locations,” DeReus asked.

“I think we have learnings,” Fagent said. “I don’t know if we’ve figured out the best way to do it.”

Chief U.S. District Judge Richard Seeborg ordered both sides to submit posttrial briefs by Feb. 23 and said he will schedule a date for closing arguments after that.









Uber manager sobs on stand during trial over wheelchair accessibility


Uber rested its case in a bench trial over federal disability access laws Monday after arguing it would cost too much to make rides available to motorized wheelchair users in two Gulf cities.




www.courthousenews.com


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

I'm not understanding this lawsuit. If Uber loses the suit how does Uber comply when their workforce is entirely comprised of gig workers?

Oh Nooooo! 😱 In order for Uber to comply would mean actually having to hire on paid drivers i.e. employees.

That what the real tears were for. There goes those corporate Christmas bonuses.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Lissetti said:


> I'm not understanding this lawsuit. If Uber loses the suit how does Uber comply when their workforce is entirely comprised of gig workers?
> 
> Oh Nooooo! 😱 In order for Uber to comply would mean actually having to hire on paid drivers i.e. employees.
> 
> ...


Yea it doesnt seem to me like uber could have to be held responsible for its independent contractors having vehicles to haul powered wheelchairs
I feel sorry for those people but I'm not going to
lose my ass on a vehicle to give 3 rides a week


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Yea it doesnt seem to me like uber could have to be held responsible for its independent contractors having vehicles to haul powered wheelchairs
> I feel sorry for those people but I'm not going to
> lose my ass on a vehicle to give 3 rides a week


Exactly. I don't know anything about those racks that hold those wheelchairs on the smaller vehicles (if they can't fit inside) but aren't they very heavy? Gonna lose gas mileage thats for sure. Second, most drivers aren't trained in assisting people with disabilities. Who's liable if there's an injury while entering/exiting the vehicle?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

MHR said:


> *Uber manager sobs on stand during trial over wheelchair accessibility*
> 
> Uber rested its case in a bench trial over federal disability access laws Monday after arguing it would cost too much to make rides available to motorized wheelchair users in two Gulf cities.
> 
> ...


LOCK HIM UP!


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

It's Dara's fault give him the chair


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Looks like Mr. Fagent needs to be sent the link to Uber's page "Follow the law".


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

It's Dara's fault !!!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

I really really hope that court and the judge *****slap those Uber cretins with a big fine and an order to toe the line. They should tell them to stop whining about the same laws (just because they don't want to pay) that every other company has to obey.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> It's Dara's fault !!!


I still blame Kalanick. Give him 20 years in supermax, and only one bottle of lube.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

_the company says running such a program in New Orleans or Jackson would be extremely cost inefficient due to smaller populations and lower demand for accessible rides. _

So if there is low demand and few WAV rides requested then I don't see a problem.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

_Uber claims it would cost too much and be utterly unreasonable to make it offer accessible rides in the two Gulf Coast cities. _

Yeah, I'm going to tell the IRS that income tax costs too much and it would be utterly unreasonable to make me pay it.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

elelegido said:


> I still blame Kalanick. Give him 20 years in supermax, and only one bottle of lube.


In retrospect Travis was great compared to Dara.
I would take him back in a second.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

petapa said:


> 57M / 100K = 570 100 hundred thousand dollar vans that can transport disabled = 51 vans in each of those 11 cities. How bout just spend 100M on vans lease them out to 10 or so drivers per city at cost or gift em at this point & call it a day.
> 
> give riders xl/wheelchair vehicle option
> 
> Complete frauds at uber. This is'nt even difficult. Why do people in wheelchairs even need rides the city should easily be able to provide scheduled shuttles. Call a line get picked up I'm sure less than 10 people/salaries could cover an entire city


They can't fit in most cabs that I see as well.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Here's an instance where I'd love to see Uber actually do the right thing if they lose and pull out of those two jurisdictions completely. At least I'd know they were telling the truth. If they are just trying to weasel out of complying, even though I disagree with many provisions of the ADA, then they are the company I think they are. I've watched enough businesses go down because of ADA non-compliance. The law is ridiculous.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MHR said:


> Fagent


He never too any shit in high school.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

@bobby747 don't you do WAV?


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## LoLo SF (Jul 12, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> In retrospect Travis was great compared to Dara.
> I would take him back in a second.


Travis was just a dooosh bag, but Dara is straight-up ethically impaired and an evil sob.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

LoLo SF said:


> Travis was just a dooosh bag, but Dara is straight-up ethically impaired and an evil sob.


Travis is the reason you all have a job. Dara is the reason it's not worth keeping.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Dara is also slime, but Travis was the one who:


introduced "There's no need to tip your driver!" "The tip's included!"
whittled down driver pay year after year and tried to justify it with "Lower rates = higher earnings!"
Introduced "rebalanced rates", lowering the per-mile rate but not increasing the per-minute rate enough to compensate. Yet another pay cut.
Introduced the "Safe Rides Fee", increasing pax prices without sharing any of the increase with drivers
said that drivers were "The other dude in the car" and wanted to replace us with robot cars
was indicted in South Korea for running an illegal taxi service /  /


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

LoLo SF said:


> Travis was just a dooosh bag, but Dara is straight-up ethically impaired and an evil sob.





NorCalPhil said:


> Travis is the reason you all have a job. Dara is the reason it's not worth keeping.


That is very true !!!


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

LoLo SF said:


> Travis was just a dooosh bag, but Dara is straight-up ethically impaired and an evil sob.


I agree with you.
But with Travis driving was fun and profitable.
His last year he gave me a 1000 dollar bonus.
I just checked Ubers stock and it is down to 35.
How does Dara keep his job ?


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## The Entomologist (Sep 23, 2018)

Jeez all this "Satan or Lucifer" talk needs to stop, TK was the first to give us not one but 2 paycuts, why do people want him back? are you on drugs? or is this that syndrome I keep hearing about where the abused falls in love with the abuser?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

elelegido said:


> Dara is also slime, but Travis was the one who:
> 
> 
> introduced "There's no need to tip your driver!" "The tip's included!"
> ...


I know he wasn't a saint.
But the fact remains driving was more fun and profitable under Travis.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

The Entomologist said:


> Jeez all this "Satan or Lucifer" talk needs to stop, TK was the first to give us not one but 2 paycuts, why do people want him back? are you on drugs? or is this that syndrome I keep hearing about where the abused falls in love with the abuser?


Travis gave me a 1000 dollar bonus his last year.
His surge multipliers made me very good money.
For me it's all about the profit and the fun.


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

In Iran (where Dara is from) it's best if you're not born disabled. I'm not seeing Uber attempt to force RS drivers to buy AWD vehicles...how would that even work? If it was at all profitable RS drivers would buy AWS vehicles and offer rides...simple economics.

Uber is responsible for putting in ramps for its employees, not forcing *you* to buy a van with a lift.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> In Iran (where Dara is from) it's best if you're not born disabled. I'm not seeing Uber attempt to force RS drivers to buy AWD vehicles...how would that even work? If it was at all profitable RS drivers would buy AWS vehicles and offer rides...simple economics.
> 
> Uber is responsible for putting in ramps for its employees, not forcing *you* to buy a van with a lift.


I agree 100%


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> In retrospect Travis was great compared to Dara.
> I would take him back in a second.



Travis was a visionary in charge of a startup. Dara is a CEO of a public corporation. 

Any company that goes public becomes garbage. That's just the result of having to please stock holders, apparently.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Trafficat said:


> Travis was a visionary in charge of a startup. Dara is a CEO of a public corporation.
> 
> Any company that goes public becomes garbage. That's just the result of having to please stock holders, apparently.


I agree with you.
The demise of Uber corresponds with it going public.
With Travis there was Uber, drivers and passengers.
It was very simple.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

The lawsuit could be the end of uber and lyft in this country.

But all of their cost arguments of getting a wav service off the ground?

The thing that they arn't going to admit is that the those wav vehicles are more than capable of taking at bare minimum X fares on top of wave pings.

So that $800,000 per year cost can be pretty much eradicated by using those wav vehicles to drive other people when they aren't on wav pings. 

OH WAIT, not they can't because uber isn't charging enough to cover the costs of of XL vehicle at X rates.

Oh snap.. can't they do XL trips?

Oh wait they can't.. because the wav conversions reduce the passenger count.


All of these problems look like uber's problems, no one elses.


If uber charged $2.40 a mile accross the board the math suddenly works out.



AND.. uber's argument that there's no one with wav to sign up for the platform isn't 100% true. There's almost no one with a Wav who can meet the modest demands of the job, because they to are in a wheelchair and can't assist other people in a wheelchair. And people who have a family car that's a Wav for driving family members also won't sign on either.



But they will lose this argument. There's no stopping it. Do you know who else lost this argument?









Anyone want to take a guess what their argument was?
That it would cost too much money. 

Orlando's regulations stipulate that X% of the fleet must be WAV, and several of the most recent permit cap increases have been just wavs. OK guys.. you can put 10 more taxis on the road but only if they are WAVs.

If they can force the taxis I will bet my magical furry Ass that they will force the same restrictions on uber. Uber being the idiots they are will piss massive amounts of money down the drain providing shitty service. But the customers using it will be stuck using it because it's probobly the only on demand option left.

Frankly I think the cab comapnies could start suing cities and states for allowing uber without forcing them to comply with the wheelchair accessibility requirements the taxis have.

That would be one way to do it.


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

RS isn't a taxi service. Uber does not hire people to drive a fleet of their vehicles. If you haven't noticed, RS is Bring-Your-Own. Seriously, what other job requires you to bring $25K of your own equipment day one AND pay your own insurance/taxes/other? Even Airplane Mechanic doesn't rack up a first-year bill like that.

...okay, call-girl / sugar-boy, but that's probably the exception.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> If uber charged $2.40 a mile accross the board the math suddenly works out.


Then they would be charging the same rates as Taxi. And, their competitive advantage would be gone. However, all the drivers would be better off.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> RS isn't a taxi service. Uber does not hire people to drive a fleet of their vehicles. If you haven't noticed, RS is Bring-Your-Own. Seriously, what other job requires you to bring $25K of your own equipment day one AND pay your own insurance/taxes/other? Even Airplane Mechanic doesn't rack up a first-year bill like that.
> 
> ...okay, call-girl / sugar-boy, but that's probably the exception.


Agree


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

MHR said:


> *Uber manager sobs on stand during trial over wheelchair accessibility*
> 
> Uber rested its case in a bench trial over federal disability access laws Monday after arguing it would cost too much to make rides available to motorized wheelchair users in two Gulf cities.
> 
> ...


I looked into it in New Orleans.
I could get the turbo diesel mini busses @ auction for $1,500.00 electric chair lifts. 16 passenger.
Uber won't allow that style of vehicle.

The vans are more expensive.

Para Transit small busses are cheap.
The turbo diesels get up to 26 m.p.g.
You fold bus seats up for para Transit 
Leave seats down for ambulatory folks.

Also . . . City of New Orleans has 8 year age limit on vehicles. Uber,Lyft, taxi, Limo.
8 years and you're done.

Most para Transit vehicles at auction are 8 years old or older.

You can't win.
I Really wanted to offer the service.

Can't do it .
Must be subsidized


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

My Hyundai Elantra transported many people in wheelchairs. Chair fits easily in trunk.
I've driven many drunk men & women paralyzed from the waist down.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> My Hyundai Elantra transported many people in wheelchairs. Chair fits easily in trunk.
> I've driven many drunk men & women paralyzed from the waist down.


That's nto what we are talking about, look at the pic I posted above, that is the sort of vehicle we are talking.

Something that someone in a power wheelchair can roll on a ramp into and be safely transported in.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

> Fagent testified that it would cost Uber more than $400 per trip to operate a WAV program with a commercial fleet partner in New Orleans and more than $1,000 per trip in Jackson. That’s compared to the $187-per-ride average Uber pays to offer WAV service in other cities.


If Uber would pay the driver $180 per WAV ride, I guarantee some drivers would get a WAV vehicle or some people with a WAV vehicle would sign up to drive for Uber just for those rides.

Instead Uber pays drivers LESS for dealing with handicappers. Like in my city, Uber Assist pays the same as X except there is NO long pickup fee, NO cancel fee, NO wait time, and NO surge. I don't understand why anyone in the right mind would ever take an assist ride unless it is slow as molasses. I almost always reject every assist ride because I'm not a charity service.

But I guess Uber is cool with paying a THIRD PARTY $187 to do a ride they can't figure out why a driver won't do for $2.75 while charging the pax $6.85


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Mears Taxi?

The cab company I drove a day last week for. They have quite a few wheelchair accessible vehicles. They are the hardest vehicles in the fleet to get your hands on. A lot of the business in the taxi involves lining up a places where we think there will be cab fares, Like Disney world, or the airport...

The line is first in first out, however there are exceptions to that rule. If someone comes out in a needing a bigger vehicle then that driver jumps the line.

Same way with a wheelchair van. If someone comes out and they have a none folding wheelchair than the first wheelchair van in line gets the load.

Interestingly... at a hotel if they have too much luggage for a sedan and only 4 passengers the wheelchair can jump the sedans as well.

But you are in fact right, money talks and bullshit walks.

For those drivers with the wheelchair vans who play ball with dispatch? Dispatch will throw them good fares in exchange for taking care of the turds.

And as far as uber saying "$187 a fare to have a third party pick them up. I believe that price. That medical transport company or taxi company or whoever got asked by uber for a price and they reached right up there ass and said "For you assholes it's $187 a ride"

Those drivers also pay less money for the cab.


So.. in the cab company.. Less money for the vehicle in rent, opportunities to jump the queues, and special treatment from dispatch.

Downside- turd fares.


That's what it takes for the drivers to deal with it. And tehy also get parties of 5-6 they have to turn away all the damned time because they can only take 4 passengers in those minivans.

No matter how you do it, converting a van for a wheelchair ramp/lift is going to cost you one rows of seats. Either the middle row for a side entry or the back row for a rear entry (giggity giggitty)


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> No matter how you do it, converting a van for a wheelchair ramp/lift is going to cost you one rows of seats. Either the middle row for a side entry or the back row for a rear entry (giggity giggitty)


Seems like there's gotta be a way to do it with some kind of ramp that goes under some seats that fold down and then it goes over them when it's folded. The engineer in me says this problem can be solved. Of course, that doesn't mean that it actually has been!


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Trafficat said:


> Seems like there's gotta be a way to do it with some kind of ramp that goes under some seats that fold down and then it goes over them when it's folded. The engineer in me says this problem can be solved. Of course, that doesn't mean that it actually has been!









This form factor is less of a problem and requires less modifications assuming the passenger can transfer out.












If you have just a scooter and they can transfer out you can use a wheelchair lift. or trailer, which won't actually reduce your passenger count. The big issue is that this isn't good enough. It's a half measure that isn't sufficient, and still leaves people unable to use your service. Heck i've had people load relatives power scooters into vans more times than I can count at the theme parks. And reality is that that's perfectly OK. I won't break my back to load it but if they want to I won't deny them the service by telling them they can't load it by breaking their backs.

The use of lifts like these or the trailers is generally how people who own these things get them around.











THESE are the real damned problem. In order to be 100% wave compliant you need to be able to load someone in one of these without them transferring out of it.










A 500 pound woman who can't transfer out of one of these and has a poop bag?

Yeah.. **** me...

You need a ramp to load it. I need to point out that i've had families transfer people out of these by hand into the vans and then manually load the wheelchair into the taxi before. I won't discriminate but I won't hurt myself loading excessively heavy wheelchairs when there are vans with nice ramps to do it much much easier.

Reality is that with a vehicle with a ramp a one legged Ol war horse like me can load a morbidly obese half ton person into the car by myself and safely strap them in even when they are so heavy I can't get them out of the wheelchair.

I just generally don't. 
A. it's a pain in my furry ass to do, 
B. The wheelchair vehicles are in such big demand so I couldn't get one if I wanted one.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> I know he wasn't a saint.
> But the fact remains driving was more fun and profitable under Travis.


Indeed, but Travis definitely hadn't finished the money grab from drivers by the time he was forced out. Having already raised Uber's take from drivers from 20% to 25%, introduced the safe rides fee, pushed down driver rates several times etc there was no way Travis' thinking was "Ok, I've altered the deal enough for drivers - I'm going to stop now and make no further changes".

Under Kalanick, Uber's CFO Brent Callinicos had already said that Uber could easily raise its driver take-rate to 30%, and when questioned why Uber would do that, he added, "because we can". There's no doubt that, if Kalanick had stayed, Uber would have still got rid of multiplier surge, introduced up-front pricing and kept cutting driver pay. No doubt at all - they were already planning how they could increase their take before Dara took over.

It wasn't Uber's pre-planned strategy from the beginning to 1) force down fares 2) decouple fares from driver pay 3) increase fares back to above where they had been. These events weren't part of some grand plan - these measures were thought up in sequence through the years by Uber as they realised each previous measure would be accepted by drivers. The gradual progression from the 2013 model where Uber treated its drivers as partners (80/20 revenue share split of _all_ of the fare) to the 2022 employee-like model of fixed driver pay per mile + discretionary incentives would have happened regardless of who was the CEO.


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## ScoobyDooFan (Oct 25, 2021)

elelegido said:


> I still blame Kalanick. Give him 20 years in supermax, and only one bottle of lube.


You’re far to kind. I wouldn’t give him any lube, when they screw us, it’s without lube.


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## ScoobyDooFan (Oct 25, 2021)

elelegido said:


> Indeed, but Travis definitely hadn't finished the money grab from drivers by the time he was forced out. Having already raised Uber's take from drivers from 20% to 25%, introduced the safe rides fee, pushed down driver rates several times etc there was no way Travis' thinking was "Ok, I've altered the deal enough for drivers - I'm going to stop now and make no further changes".
> 
> Under Kalanick, Uber's CFO Brent Callinicos had already said that Uber could easily raise its driver take-rate to 30%, and when questioned why Uber would do that, he added, "because we can". There's no doubt that, if Kalanick had stayed, Uber would have still got rid of multiplier surge, introduced up-front pricing and kept cutting driver pay. No doubt at all - they were already planning how they could increase their take before Dara took over.
> 
> It wasn't Uber's pre-planned strategy from the beginning to 1) force down fares 2) decouple fares from driver pay 3) increase fares back to above where they had been. These events weren't part of some grand plan - these measures were thought up in sequence through the years by Uber as they realised each previous measure would be accepted by drivers. The gradual progression from the 2013 model where Uber treated its drivers as partners (80/20 revenue share split of _all_ of the fare) to the 2022 employee-like model of fixed driver pay per mile + discretionary incentives would have happened regardless of who was the CEO.


At some point Uber will not give us anything, expect us to work on tips, while raising the rates for passengers. They know many ants will still driver for them.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

elelegido said:


> Indeed, but Travis definitely hadn't finished the money grab from drivers by the time he was forced out. Having already raised Uber's take from drivers from 20% to 25%, introduced the safe rides fee, pushed down driver rates several times etc there was no way Travis' thinking was "Ok, I've altered the deal enough for drivers - I'm going to stop now and make no further changes".
> 
> Under Kalanick, Uber's CFO Brent Callinicos had already said that Uber could easily raise its driver take-rate to 30%, and when questioned why Uber would do that, he added, "because we can". There's no doubt that, if Kalanick had stayed, Uber would have still got rid of multiplier surge, introduced up-front pricing and kept cutting driver pay. No doubt at all - they were already planning how they could increase their take before Dara took over.
> 
> It wasn't Uber's pre-planned strategy from the beginning to 1) force down fares 2) decouple fares from driver pay 3) increase fares back to above where they had been. These events weren't part of some grand plan - these measures were thought up in sequence through the years by Uber as they realised each previous measure would be accepted by drivers. The gradual progression from the 2013 model where Uber treated its drivers as partners (80/20 revenue share split of _all_ of the fare) to the 2022 employee-like model of fixed driver pay per mile + discretionary incentives would have happened regardless of who was the CEO.


Very well thought out reply and true.
Travis read the tea leafs sold his stock and exited.
There were also a ton of high level bright young executives who left during that time. They saw what Travis saw.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

petapa said:


> they both deserve death row for life


Agree


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## #1husler (Aug 22, 2017)

MHR said:


> According to Patel, Uber prioritizes launching Uber WAV programs in cities that are larger in size, where public funding is available


The bottom line is....the bottom line, in that rendering this service is expensive...would Uber pass along that cost to pax with disabilities? So if WAV pick up costs 5 times that of UberX, is that "ok"?, or is Uber required to offer low ball rates for expensive rides and sorta accept a big financial haircut per each? The whole RS model is for private sector (ie, Uber, Lyft) to offer a cut rate fare for a very, simple, basic, "no extras" ride...WAV picks are the opposite of this and not profitable unless pax with disabilities pay (or most likely 3rd parties) pay like 4 or times the usual RS cost.. if this can happen (ie, $20 per pax with disability pick up) then even I'd get a WAV and go for it....or Uber could "lease" me a WAV with very favorable arrangements, and I'd pick up it up and do it....but, again, Uber would have to go way out of pocket for this service...for that reason, WAV rides are typically a public (not private sector) thing.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

When Uber changed the pay structure from a set percentage take to per mile per minute pay, they effectively went from being a tech company with independent contractors to a transportation company. Disruptors was the Uber decree, well they can't disrupt the law, transportation companies have to be in compliance of local laws.


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## #1husler (Aug 22, 2017)

Paul Vincent said:


> transportation companies have to be in compliance of local laws.


ADA stipulates that Uber has to offer "reasonable accommodiations" to pax with disabilities...so the court will have to determine these requests are "reasonable"....this happens in the education sector ALL the time...if I ask to enroll my Deaf daughter (for example) at a tiny, broke rural school with no educational interpret and/or teacher of the deaf...is this "reasonable"? or should I look to the school for the deaf instead?, Its the courts who then hash this out.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

#1husler said:


> in that rendering this service is expensive...would Uber pass along that cost to pax with disabilities? So if WAV pick up costs 5 times that of UberX, is that "ok"?,


Uber/Lyft can't charge more for WAV than a regular Uber/Lyft. 

They recently got bad publicity for charging collapsible wheelchair riders waiting time for loading and unloading the chairs.


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## #1husler (Aug 22, 2017)

New2This said:


> Uber/Lyft can't charge more for WAV than a regular Uber/Lyft.
> 
> They recently got bad publicity for charging collapsible wheelchair riders waiting time for loading and unloading the chairs.


Right so....this is where the RS model "breaks down", because typically U/L can hoist their rules/reg (ie, mask requirements, no under-age pax, etc) on to drivers, and then simply wash their hands of it, or even "blame" drivers who ignore it (because compliance on things like long wait multistops are just not profitable), but NOT this...as Uber (not drivers) get summoned into court.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> Yea it doesnt seem to me like uber could have to be held responsible for its independent contractors having vehicles to haul powered wheelchairs
> I feel sorry for those people but I'm not going to
> lose my ass on a vehicle to give 3 rides a week


If I see a wheelchair person I'll just help them get on seat and throw their wheelchair in trunk. I don't wanna he sued over Americans with Disabilities Act


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

It costs a ton of cash for a new wav 60k now. Used ones are not super high. I hate to agree with uber. But they cannot do it in certain markets. And new drivers in wav markets will be lucky to get any rides per week.drivers are better off with a taxi or black car.imho


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Ozzyoz said:


> If I see a wheelchair person I'll just help them get on seat and throw their wheelchair in trunk. I don't wanna he sued over Americans with Disabilities Act


I thought the article was about powered chairs
because he was talking about uber leasing vehicles
I always help them w walkers too no big deal


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I thought the article was about powered chairs
> because he was talking about uber leasing vehicles
> I always help them w walkers too no big deal


The entire problem *is* powered chairs.
So, uber and lyft are going to lose this debate, The taxis lost it years and years ago, the exact same arugment that uber is making, it's going to be too expensive, we can't afford it, ect ect.

But they still lost it, and the taxi companies bought vans capable of handling the power wheelchairs.

That alone is all the evidence that they need to put the same thing on uber.

This could actually lead to increased pay accross the board for all of us. Because uber might raise prices across the board just so they can charge more to people who need the service.

While it's not legal to charge more for people with disabilities they can go ahead and charge everyone more.

But this will also further erode the differences in price between taxis and uber/lyft. If they lose the price advantage it will be much easier for them/us to compete with ridesharing.

But once they lose this lawsuit uber and lyft will have to start rolling out these programs nation wide.


This is going to be a massive money pit they will have to fill in and frankly I have my doubts they can. The effort in trying to comply could knock them both out of business.


But they stand less than zero chance of clearing this hurdle.


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I thought the article was about powered chairs
> because he was talking about uber leasing vehicles
> I always help them w walkers too no big deal


Battery powered chairs can still be stored in trunk if they're light enough can't they?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I thought the article was about powered chairs
> because he was talking about uber leasing vehicles
> I always help them w walkers too no big deal


It's nice to see there are drivers who help these people.
Most of them are so appreciative.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Ozzyoz said:


> Battery powered chairs can still be stored in trunk if they're light enough can't they?



if they're collapsible maybe.

Lof of motorized wheelchairs are fixed.


----------



## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)




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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Lissetti said:


> Gonna lose gas mileage thats for sure. Second, most drivers aren't trained in assisting people with disabilities. Who's liable if there's an injury while entering/exiting the vehicle?


Right. It's a specialized need, and thus requires a specialized solution, with a specialized source of funding if you're not going to allow Uber to charge what the service costs. These laws are fine and good, and I would want to be able to call for a car if I was wheelchair bound. But don't make every other rider pay for me to get to the store, and don't completely take away the service from other riders by putting Uber out of business with these cost burdens. And Uber drivers already help the elderly, those with walkers, those whose ride is paid by insurance and never tip, and we have to board any species of animal if the owner claims it is a service animal. Enough.

Maybe the state could fund a specialized wheelchair transportation company by taxing those who put them in wheelchairs.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> That's nto what we are talking about, look at the pic I posted above, that is the sort of vehicle we are talking.
> 
> Something that someone in a power wheelchair can roll on a ramp into and be safely transported in.


I was speaking of my Actual experience in the post you quoted

In the post RIGHT BEFORE THAT I was speaking of EXACTLY what the topic is about.










Should be quite clear.

In fact, the exact vehicle you posted comes up at Govt. Auctions. The manufacturer is no longer in business .

Except, the models I looked at were white & silver not yellow.









V.P.G. only manufactured from 2011-2016.
They are OUT OF BUSINESS.

A 2016 MODEL IN MY MARKET WILL AGE OUT IN 2024.
Only 2 years of use if I bought one.

They are Horrible on gas.
( 4.6 L v-8 or a v-6 )


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

elelegido said:


> I really really hope that court and the judge *****slap those Uber cretins with a big fine and an order to toe the line. They should tell them to stop whining about the same laws (just because they don't want to pay) that every other company has to obey.


Each Uber ride puts $1.00 into City of New Orleans TAX !
EACH AIRPORT UBER RIDE PUTS $4.00 DIRECTLY INTO THE CITY.

UBER ISNT GOING ANYWHERE IN NEW ORLEANS !

CITY OF NEW ORLEANS USED TO MAKE $60.00 A DAY JUST OFF OF ME !


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

NorCalPhil said:


> Here's an instance where I'd love to see Uber actually do the right thing if they lose and pull out of those two jurisdictions completely. At least I'd know they were telling the truth. If they are just trying to weasel out of complying, even though I disagree with many provisions of the ADA, then they are the company I think they are. I've watched enough businesses go down because of ADA non-compliance. The law is ridiculous.


Handicap Accessibility is FEDERAL LAW.

UBER PULLS OUT OF MY MARKET . . . UBER PULLS OUT OF THEM ALL !


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Handicap Accessibility is FEDERAL LAW.
> 
> UBER PULLS OUT OF MY MARKET . . . UBER PULLS OUT OF THEM ALL !


True, though laws haven’t exactly stopped Uber in the past. Would love to see them challenge it. ADA is way too broad.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

tohunt4me said:


> I was speaking of my Actual experience in the post you quoted
> 
> In the post RIGHT BEFORE THAT I was speaking of EXACTLY what the topic is about.
> 
> ...


my statement was about the government forcing taxis to buy them and succeeding in forcing them.

There's no reason uber will get away with it.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> my statement was about the government forcing taxis to buy them and succeeding in forcing them.
> 
> There's no reason uber will get away with it.


You are right.
It Should be Equal.

Will it be ?


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## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

Ubers problem is Uber!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> There's no reason uber will get away with it.


True, but there was no reason why Uber should have got away with any of its shenanigans and it always has. For some reason, there is little appetite to make Uber accountable by anyone in authority. In rough chronological order:

Several states: "You are operating an illegal taxi company. You are to cease and desist immediately"
Uber: "P_leeeease_ let us operate an illegal taxi company"
Several states: "Oh, alright then"

California and other states: "You must fingerprint check your drivers"
Uber: "But but it would cost us too much. We don't want to and we will _leave_ if we don't get our way"
California and other states: "Oh, alright then"
Texas: "We'll hold out for a little while, but will then cave and change the law especially to accommodate you"

California: "You must treat your drivers as employees"
Uber: "But but it would cost us too much. We don't want to and we will _leave_ if we don't get our way"
California voters: "Oh, alright then"

New Orleans: "You must obey the ADA and provide rides for wheelchair users
Uber: "But but it would cost us too much. We don't want to and you're being unreasonable"
New Orleans: TBA

Uber is like a cat that always falls on its feet. Every attempt so far to make Uber toe the line has failed. I'm not sure why this country has such problems making Uber obey its laws. South Korea, for example, indicted Uber executives personally and they would get arrested if they ever visited the country. No forking around. And countries in Europe ruled that Uber is a taxi company and Uber either obeys their rules or it gets out. Nice and simple.

Maybe New Orleans will be the first to successfully stand up to Uber, but the odds of that happening aren't looking good if we look at the past.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

elelegido said:


> True, but there was no reason why Uber should have got away with any of its shenanigans and it always has. For some reason, there is little appetite to make Uber accountable by anyone in authority. In rough chronological order:
> 
> Several states: "You are operating an illegal taxi company. You are to cease and desist immediately"
> Uber: "P_leeeease_ let us operate an illegal taxi company"
> ...


Here's the difference..

Uber versus the government? They were the innovator!
Uber Versus the taxi cabs? Those evil racist cab drivers!
Uber Versus employee status? Our drivers want to be contractors.
Uber versus people with disabilities? Down with the evil corporation!

They stand a good chance to lose because unlike the rest of those situations.. the only politically correct side to argue is the side of the disabled people.










Can you honestly say that there is any better of a poster child for a protected class that uber is going to lose to?

As it stands there is no uber or lyft service in many cities that could pick this girl up and take her home. 

The cab companies have been forced by the ADA to purchase hardware capable of accommodating them.


So is uber going to win against the ADA?

You know who wins against the ADA?


Well here's the thing, no one _wins_ against the ADA, the ada exists solely to cost companies money and make it easier for people with disabilities.

The only WIN you have against the ADA is not losing _that badly_. 

I want to see this lawsuit go in Orlando Florida next because I know the only company that can handle uber's demand for wheelchair vehicles.. And they are gonna tell uber to screw off if uber tries to get X pings onto their cars. They can't handle the wheelchair fares they already have. When uber starts offering lower prices than the cab company they are going to get a huge flood in demand.

Any of these lawsuits that pop up and uber will say it's too expensive?

They counter argument is "the cab companies said the same damn thing 20-30 years ago and it didn't kill them off.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> They stand a good chance to lose because unlike the rest of those situations.. the only politically correct side to argue is the side of the disabled people.


I hope you're right. 

It will be interesting to see if this is where people will finally draw the line.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> The cab companies have been forced by the ADA to purchase hardware capable of accommodating them.


How does this work with cab companies? I would think that it would make no sense financially for a cabbie to lease a much more expensive wheelchair van, given the low number of wheelchair van requests from pax. Do the cab companies subsidise the lease of these vans? Or do wheelchair van drivers operate as salaried employees?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

elelegido said:


> How does this work with cab companies? I would think that it would make no sense financially for a cabbie to lease a much more expensive wheelchair van, given the low number of wheelchair van requests from pax. Do the cab companies subsidise the lease of these vans? Or do wheelchair van drivers operate as salaried employees?


First and foremost, there's nothing stopping someone in a wheelchair van from taking other fares. It sounds like you might understand that, but uber sure doesn't seem to get it.

I don't know why people get that into their head. They still seat 4 people and they still are taxis.

The company I drive for (Not very often these days)

By City Ordinance they need to have X% of their fleet being handicapped accessible.
I don't know what the % is and a few of the most recent permits they picked up were for "Wav only" Meaning if they got permits they HAD to go on Wav vehicles.


Then there's 4 advantages drivers in the wheelchair vehicles get.

1. Dispatch "takes care of them" for helping with pain in the ass wheelchair fares that wouldn't be worthwhile otherwise. What would it take you to drive 15 minutes to spend 10 minutes loading the customer to drive them 5 minutes down the road and spend 10 minutes unloading them again?
Answer.. a thrown bone or two.


2. They can "jump the line" at the theme parks, hotels ect if someone has a power scooter or power wheelchair, or if they just have too much luggage to fit into a sedan but still only have 4 passengers. At a hotel this could result in skipping 15 cabs at Disney world or go from being 5th in line at a hotel to loading right away. Just imagine a Fifo queue where your class of vehicle doesn't have enough vehicles around but there's a ton of X sitting around. At the same time they are still in line with the sedans. So if they get to the front they will still load based on arrival time. So this line jumping makes it worth while. 

The dispatch system (when they arn't being spoon fed) also works the same way, if you visualize about 150 FIFO spread out across 3 counties that's our dispatch system in a nutshell. If a wheelchair fare comes that driver can jump all the caps in front of them and get a fare sooner. But since wheelchair vehicles only make up a portion of the fleet in the first place there could be a fare that comes in 3 zones over, with a half a dozen total cabs between the two places.

3. For weekly rentals you get additional miles
4. The rental price for the wheelchair vehicles is actually cheaper than the 7 passenger vans or even the Sedans, inspite of the wheelchair vans being the most expensive of the three.

Those 4 advantages make the wheelchair vehicles the hardest ones in the fleet to get.

And a large % of their "wheelchair fares" end up being power scooters, with the passenger transferring to a standard seat. In which case we can push it up the ramp and use 1/4 of tie downs, just enough to keep it from bouncing around, not a enough to keep it stable to the point the passenger won't fall out of the wheelchair.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> First and foremost, there's nothing stopping someone in a wheelchair van from taking other fares. I don't know why people get that into their head.


That idea is certainly not in _my_ head. Of course wheelchair vans are able to take other fares - this is obvious.


> They still seat 4 people and they still are taxis.


Again, this is obvious.


> Then there's 4 advantages drivers in the wheelchair vehicles get.
> 
> 1. Dispatch "takes care of them" for helping with pain in the ass wheelchair fares that wouldn't be worthwhile otherwise. What would it take you to drive 15 minutes to spend 10 minutes loading the customer to drive them 5 minutes down the road and spend 10 minutes unloading them again?
> Answer.. a thrown bone or two.
> ...


Ok, this explains it - drivers are persuaded to lease wheelchair vans with a combination of preferential treatment from dispatch _plus _economic incentive from the cab company in the form of lower rent and more miles.


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## Las Vegas Dude (Sep 3, 2018)

The way the government works is you charge everyone more so the select few are taken care of.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Las Vegas Dude said:


> The way the government works is you charge everyone more so the select few are taken care of.


Taking care of the infirm and disabled is widely regarded as being one of the first signs of civilisation. Clearly, from a purely economic point of view it would, in many cases, be more beneficial to a society as a whole to simply ignore the disabled. Some political movements have, in the recent past, taken this a step further and killed the disabled for the maximum economic benefit of the state. No points for guessing which group that was.

I don't think that we want to go down that route.

For more information, see:








How A 15,000-Year-Old Human Bone Could Help You Through The Coronacrisis


An ancient femur bone offers insight into how humans feel better when we care for others, says Remy Blumenfeld. There are things you can do, even if you can't leave your home.




www.forbes.com


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

elelegido said:


> True, but there was no reason why Uber should have got away with any of its shenanigans and it always has. For some reason, there is little appetite to make Uber accountable by anyone in authority. In rough chronological order:
> 
> Several states: "You are operating an illegal taxi company. You are to cease and desist immediately"
> Uber: "P_leeeease_ let us operate an illegal taxi company"
> ...


It was TRAVIS " FEARLESS LEADER" & HIS BALLS OF TITANIUM !


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Here's the difference..
> 
> Uber versus the government? They were the innovator!
> Uber Versus the taxi cabs? Those evil racist cab drivers!
> ...


I'm sorry.
That little girl is a minor.
She is ineligible for Uber transport without a Legal Guardian


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Here's the difference..
> 
> Uber versus the government? They were the innovator!
> Uber Versus the taxi cabs? Those evil racist cab drivers!
> ...


Looks like Uber must raise the rates & RETURN FAIR COMPENSATION TO DRIVERS.
OR 
GO OUT OF BUSINESS.


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## BrainDead Driver (Dec 15, 2021)

Well wheel chairs can get a electric motor or gas . Put that onto the freeway Good to go . 








 And excuses now ?


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

They wont get it away with it and will end up learning to lease cars out


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> You are right.
> It Should be Equal.
> 
> Will it be ?


taxi's in this city only have a few


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> It was TRAVIS " FEARLESS LEADER" & HIS BALLS OF TITANIUM !


and the millions of contributions made to the right people


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I would be very interested to know what the actual volume of WAV calls are or could be. 
Uber has a way of making things sound like all or nothing propositions like they did in California. IC was one way, employee was a rigidly defined awful thing but it doesn't have to be that way. 

Similarly, they have options here. They could hire 4 or 8 employees and purchase 2 or 3 vehicles and provide WAV service. They could also hire IC's, perhaps subsidize the cost of the vehicle in exchange for a commitment to be available certain times. They could also simply offer $200 a ride if you agreed to be on call for a certain number of hours/shifts and see if they had enough takers. The point is that while it will be more expensive to provide this service, it should be something close to noise for them if they look at creative ways to solve the problem.

Personally I hope that @Stevie The magic Unicorn is right and they lose this battle. Besides being the right thing to do I would like to see them actually held accountable to the law.


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## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

Ozzyoz said:


> If I see a wheelchair person I'll just help them get on seat and throw their wheelchair in trunk. I don't wanna he sued over Americans with Disabilities Act


The last chair person I had was from the Airport, she texted to identify herself as in a chair, she could walk but had a balance problem. I helped her into my car and left the airport chair curb side. Even opened the door at arrival and had her hold my arm to walk her to the front door. Me being a white guy and her a black women about my age. It's all about character not color.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I would be very interested to know what the actual volume of WAV calls are or could be.
> Uber has a way of making things sound like all or nothing propositions like they did in California. IC was one way, employee was a rigidly defined awful thing but it doesn't have to be that way.
> 
> Similarly, they have options here. They could hire 4 or 8 employees and purchase 2 or 3 vehicles and provide WAV service. They could also hire IC's, perhaps subsidize the cost of the vehicle in exchange for a commitment to be available certain times. They could also simply offer $200 a ride if you agreed to be on call for a certain number of hours/shifts and see if they had enough takers. The point is that while it will be more expensive to provide this service, it should be something close to noise for them if they look at creative ways to solve the problem.
> ...


They really don't need to do that much, honest. $200 a ride in cost is believing uber's bullshit.

There's zero reason those cars can't drive regular fares. It's not a $60,000 investment to handle a small number of handicapped fares, it's a $25,000 investment on top of the cost of a standard car in order to comply with the ADA.

That's thing that no one seems to get. Unless you really think that the wheelchair taxis don't have any regular passenger seats in them? Well they do... the ones at Mears seat 4 passengers, 3 in the middle row plus the front passenger seat. With the rear row being gone and then you ramp them up the, tie them down and strap them in, and 4 more people can easily and comfortably get in with them. 

I doubt they can handle XL but at least X level. At that point they can keep those vehicles busy taking X fares and suddenly $20 a day in wav revenue to $180 a day in costs turns into $250 a day in revenue to $200 a day in costs and it turns from being a money loser into a money earning situation.

if they rationally priced it out these vehicles would be turning a profit. They could also form a non profit providing transportation and write off the costs associated with those fares.

$200 a fare? That's uber's spin masters bullshitting the politicians with costs.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> There's zero reason those cars can't drive regular fares. It's not a $60,000 investment to handle a small number of handicapped fares, it's a $25,000 investment on top of the cost of a standard car in order to comply with the ADA.


Gas mileage, vehicle expense, and shitty rates would be three reasons.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> They really don't need to do that much, honest. $200 a ride in cost is believing uber's bullshit.
> 
> There's zero reason those cars can't drive regular fares. It's not a $60,000 investment to handle a small number of handicapped fares, it's a $25,000 investment on top of the cost of a standard car in order to comply with the ADA.
> 
> ...


Oh, I'm with you. They might have to do something to get someone to cover the overnight shift or have some premium for not being able to reject the ride, ... some logistics and premium for making sure they have coverage. But yeah, the per mileage charge to operate would not be that much more.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

NorCalPhil said:


> Gas mileage, vehicle expense, and shitty rates would be three reasons.


those 3 reasons are actually one reason,

shitty rates.

Let's say uber did away with taking a cut from those drivers in exchange for making it so they cannot refuse a wheelchair ping with X miles.

would that be enough?

In Orlando..no.. but in a higher rate city yes, it certainly wouldn't cost uber $200 a wheelchair ping to make that happen.


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## NorCalPhil (Aug 19, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> those 3 reasons are actually one reason,
> 
> shitty rates.
> 
> ...


Ok lets play that scenario out. You're a driver. You agree to Uber not taking a cut and go out and buy a vehicle specifically for this purpose. How long before Lucy pulls the Football? Uber's track record for forcing change i.e. screwing the driver is pretty clear. Are there drivers left willing to take Uber at their word? I hope not.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Ada requirements :

Cdl physical card
Cpr certification 
Basic first aid certification 
Ada handling certification 
Higher level background 

Ada certified vehivle:
30"x48" wheelchair size
Ramp or lift access
600lb capacity 


Min i can find a decent ada vehicle was 18k.
insurance 

No way any ant is going to invest 20k+ just to get started. 

Uber would have to own/lease an all inclusive fleet. They wouldn't need employees. It could be IC situation. Basically a "medical transport company." 


I known its cold in parts of the states.... But hell still hasnt frozen over and uber wont pony up millions to comply.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

NorCalPhil said:


> Ok lets play that scenario out. You're a driver. You agree to Uber not taking a cut and go out and buy a vehicle specifically for this purpose. How long before Lucy pulls the Football? Uber's track record for forcing change i.e. screwing the driver is pretty clear. Are there drivers left willing to take Uber at their word? I hope not.


1 false complaint = " INSTANT DEACTIVATION".

START YOUR OWN MEDICAL TRANSPORT COMPANY & SCREW UBER !

MAKE REAL MONEY.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

There's only going to be a small percentage of uber drivers who could even pass the higher level background checks. Your shit has to be Ajax clean.


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## PukersAreAlwaysYourFault (Mar 25, 2021)

This is beyond the comprehension of most drivers.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

W00dbutcher said:


> Ada requirements :
> 
> Cdl physical card
> Cpr certification
> ...


You don't need the CDL stuff to drive the wheelchair vans in Florida, not sure about your state.



There's like zero motivation for someone to do convert their own car into a wav. Probably a negative motivation. If i had one of the vehicles that converts easily into a wav I would recommend keeping it the way it is 100% of the time. So the uber incentives would have to be really high, and you guys are right, uber would be like Lucy pulling out the football.

It makes way more sense for uber to keep a small fleet of these in every market. But they wouldn't have to be employees they could keep them ICS. They would take a cut of the fares or something..

SO your right.

The cab company I drive for? 
They certified the drivers for the wheelchair vehicles, it was a short training class. It was not very long to do, far shorter than the rest of the mandatory training they do.


But it's still an independent contractor model.

We still rent the taxi from the company, with the only stipulation being that we have to take any wheelchair fair within a reasonable distance from us while we are actively working. Beyond, it's marginally more expensive every day to operate. A little cheaper on the taxi rent counters out the higher gas cost, but revenue is increased because of jumping the queues and what not.

I would get a wheelchair accessible taxi every day if I could get one, but I can't because the demand is higher. Their Sedans are my third choice out of 3 different vehicles they have, yet I mostly drive their Sedans.

Aside from cost, I've still yet to see any argument about why uber can't do this.

Truthfully...

The first few times I loaded wheelchairs into the cars it took me about 10 minutes to load, and 5 to unload. Now it takes me about 5 minutes to load and 2-3 to unload. Not a hard process. Surprise Surprise, its usually takes longer for the customer to come out than it does to load them and strap them in. If it's a power scooter, it takes me like 2 minutes to drop the ramp and to half ass the straps in place to keep the scooter from bouncing around. There's a huge difference between teeing a scooter down and strapping a power wheelchair in place with the passenger sitting on it. 

And there was one guy who ended up not getting a ride because he wouldn't let me strap him down in the wheelchair.

He let me strap the wheelchair in and but he wouldn't let me buckle HIM in to to the wheelchair. Which wouldn't have been as big of an issue if he had gotten out of the wheelchair and into a regular car seat.

Yeah I don't play that game... I make damned sure to tie people down tight enough that i'm damned sure that their *Osteoporosis* riddled bodies aren't tossed around and crushed between their 300 pound wheelchair and the wheel well.


If it's a child I'll manage the straps and let one of the parents buckle and tighten the seat belts. The paretns also never have a problem with "push the wheelchair in for me and I'll tie the front wheels down" It saves like 30-45 seconds if I have a parent or family member help me load someone's chair in and strap them in.


What's kinda hard is figuring out where the **** to put all their luggage when I have 3 adults, plus a 4th in a wheelchair and the wheelchair is taking up a ton of the back..


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> You don't need the CDL stuff to drive the wheelchair vans in Florida, not sure about your state.


Both cab company's required the cdl physical in jax. Could be just an insurance thing.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

W00dbutcher said:


> Both cab company's required the cdl physical in jax. Could be just an insurance thing.


could be...

Mears Taxi doesn't have insurance, they just get sued and pay out of pocket for everything (self insurance)


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