# Why is San Francisco traffic so bad? Uber and Lyft are to blame, says city



## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

http://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/San-Francisco-traffic-Uber-Lyft-SFMTA-blame-10791265.php









A recent state regulatory filing by SFMTA minces no words about where the blame lies for San Francisco's major traffic problems.

The filing, which SFMTA submitted before the California Public Utilities Commission, calls out Uber, Lyft and other transportation network companies (TNCs) for clogging the city's roads and polluting the Bay Area's skies.

"In 2016, San Francisco was rated as having the third worst traffic congestion in the nation," SFMTA writes in the filing. "Much of the increase San Francisco has experienced in vehicular traffic can be attributed to the huge increase in the number of TNC vehicles operating on city streets."

According to the San Francisco Examiner, some 45,000 Uber and Lyft drivers are now working in the city. By comparison, a mere 1,800 taxi drivers cover the same turf. A national study of traffic estimated that San Franciscans spend an extra 37 minutes each day stuck in traffic, a number that has been steadily rising since 2008.

The filing also asks the CPUC to conduct a full environmental review of the effect of riding-hailing companies. Primarily, however, the filing deals with the ability of ride-sharing drivers to use rental vehicles to do their job. As such, SFMTA wants those drivers regulated like limo drivers.


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

You're telling me putting an unlimited amount of vehicles on the road to pick up customers in some of the most condensed areas in the US is causing traffic and pollution?

Nah. Can't be. Here in NYC they said Uber is actually helping traffic.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

Yeah, uber is the problem. All the pax would be walking if not for us. Not one would be in their own vehicle or a taxi or a rental or a friends car. SF would be a city of pedestrians.


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

forqalso said:


> Yeah, uber is the problem. All the pax would be walking if not for us. Not one would be in their own vehicle or a taxi or a rental or a friends car. SF would be a city of pedestrians.


You're completely blinding yourself.

When/if you see a surge in a particular area what do you/most drivers do? Chase the surge. Traffic can be built off that alone.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

I thought it was just everybody driving around trying to find a new QB for the 49er's.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

Brooklyn said:


> You're completely blinding yourself.
> 
> When/if you see a surge in a particular area what do you/most drivers do? Chase the surge. Traffic can be built off that alone.


How did those people get around before uber? If I give ten people who own cars rides a day, that's ten cars off the road. That's ten cars not driving, not circling the block looking for a parking spot or double parked.

Smart drivers don't chase surges, they make surges.


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## DollarStoreChauffeur (Sep 12, 2016)

To be honest, I've never seen a worse plan to provide urban transportation than rideshare. It's the least economical, it's a great way to pollute a city with smog and noise, and a it's sure path to gridlock.

There may be more to this, though, as in slowing economies this would be a good guise to give the sense that the city is still bustling and booming, when in fact only a minority of elite are flitting around on the backs of a working-class majority trying to make a buck.


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

forqalso said:


> How did those people get around before uber? If I give ten people who own cars rides a day, that's ten cars off the road. That's ten cars not driving, not circling the block looking for a parking spot or double parked.
> 
> Smart drivers don't chase surges, they make surges.


Which is one of the reasons taxis were limited.. one of the tests in NYC they run is traffic control.. do people wait to get cabs? yes... is there a reason? yes... if everyone orders a car at the same time what happens?

What about the I think I saw a thread stating 45,000 registered drivers in SF?.. let's say they see a surge near.. I don't know SF I've never been there but maybe a hot club.. let's say 100 drivers chase that surge.. 100 is MORE than reasonable I think going that there's tens of thousands of drivers in SF.. now you take 100 extra cars pushing towards that 1 street, maybe 50 are needed at that time so you have 50 going into the street, another 50 circling that area until being needed. You say you take off 10 cars off the road but ignoring the extra cars being put on the road because they're working for Uber.. so the let's say 1,000 cars who may have been off the road are now on the road circling these hot spots "creating surges" as you would like to say instead of being off the road.


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## LADriver (Aug 28, 2014)

BurgerTiime said:


> http://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/San-Francisco-traffic-Uber-Lyft-SFMTA-blame-10791265.php
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hear stories of L.A. drivers going up in groups just to drive in San Francisco. There are many YELP-SF complaints that say the driver's don't know the city. They live in cheap motel rooms. A bunch of TNC mercenaries.

The average weekly UBERX earnings in L.A. are around $1000. That's what I do, rarely any more. While San Francisco's average UBERX earnings are around $1500. I drove a San Francisco UBERX driver on his way to Disneyland and he told me he makes $1500/week.

So, it's a way to bump up earnings at the cost of the home UBER city, 'FRISCO.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

forqalso said:


> Yeah, uber is the problem. All the pax would be walking if not for us. Not one would be in their own vehicle or a taxi or a rental or a friends car. SF would be a city of pedestrians.


Just as soon install conveyer belts instead of sidewalks !( I actually love these things)


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

LADriver said:


> I hear stories of L.A. drivers going up in groups just to drive in San Francisco. There are many YELP-SF complaints that say the driver's don't know the city. They live in cheap motel rooms. A bunch of TNC mercenaries.
> 
> The average weekly UBERX earnings in L.A. are around $1000. That's what I do, rarely any more. While San Francisco's average UBERX earnings are around $1500. I drove a San Francisco UBERX driver on his way to Disneyland and he told me he makes $1500/week.
> 
> So, it's a way to bump up earnings at the cost of the home UBER city, 'FRISCO.


You mean they cross the border,live 10 to a room,eat fish head soup,just to earn better wages !?!?
BUILD A WALL !


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DollarStoreChauffeur said:


> To be honest, I've never seen a worse plan to provide urban transportation than rideshare. It's the least economical, it's a great way to pollute a city with smog and noise, and a it's sure path to gridlock.
> 
> There may be more to this, though, as in slowing economies this would be a good guise to give the sense that the city is still bustling and booming, when in fact only a minority of elite are flitting around on the backs of a working-class majority trying to make a buck.


Offer tax breaks to electric and CNG cars !( of COURSE Uber is against this ! Their robot cars require MASSIVE COOLING SYSTEMS that burn a lot of energy to keep the operating systems from starting fires or self destructing.)


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

tohunt4me said:


> Offer tax breaks to electric and CNG cars !( of COURSE Uber is against this ! Their robot cars require MASSIVE COOLING SYSTEMS that burn a lot of energy to keep the operating systems from starting fires or self destructing.)


\

Offering tax breaks to current and new coming cars won't offset the amount of current cars there are.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

For those that have driven in San Francisco on any given day and taken a note of how many Uber cars they see on the road, I would take a rough estimate that there are less than 500 on the road in San Francisco at any given time including peak hours. The whole 45,000 notion is absurd. Most Uber drivers don't drive anymore. And I see atleast twice as many cabs driving as Uber/Lyft cars. Cabs are everywhere in this city but you only see them at airports and maybe some major hotels outside SF. My guess is whoever did this study is just anti-Uber/Lyft. Also, if you've been to some of the eateries and talked to some of the people that were taxi drivers you know that a lot of them are doing Uber and Lyft as well now so the cars are going to average out because of the amount of taxis not on the roads anymore. I probably pass up, at most, 5 Uber drivers on a 1 mile radius.

SF is only roughly 7 x 7 in miles because it's around 46 square miles.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> For those that have driven in San Francisco on any given day and taken a note of how many Uber cars they see on the road, I would take a rough estimate that there are less than 500 on the road in San Francisco at any given time including peak hours. The whole 45,000 notion is absurd. Most Uber drivers don't drive anymore. And I see atleast twice as many cabs driving as Uber/Lyft cars. Cabs are everywhere in this city but you only see them at airports and maybe some major hotels outside SF. My guess is whoever did this study is just anti-Uber/Lyft. Also, if you've been to some of the eateries and talked to some of the people that were taxi drivers you know that a lot of them are doing Uber and Lyft as well now so the cars are going to average out because of the amount of taxis not on the roads anymore. I probably pass up, at most, 5 Uber drivers on a 1 mile radius.
> 
> SF is only roughly 7 x 7 in miles because it's around 46 square miles.


I can't drive down the road without one cruising on either side of me( Uber driver)


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I thought it was just everybody driving around trying to find a new QB for the 49er's.


More like wholr new coach and personal players


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

Brooklyn said:


> Which is one of the reasons taxis were limited.. one of the tests in NYC they run is traffic control.. do people wait to get cabs? yes... is there a reason? yes... if everyone orders a car at the same time what happens?
> 
> What about the I think I saw a thread stating 45,000 registered drivers in SF?.. let's say they see a surge near.. I don't know SF I've never been there but maybe a hot club.. let's say 100 drivers chase that surge.. 100 is MORE than reasonable I think going that there's tens of thousands of drivers in SF.. now you take 100 extra cars pushing towards that 1 street, maybe 50 are needed at that time so you have 50 going into the street, another 50 circling that area until being needed. You say you take off 10 cars off the road but ignoring the extra cars being put on the road because they're working for Uber.. so the let's say 1,000 cars who may have been off the road are now on the road circling these hot spots "creating surges" as you would like to say instead of being off the road.


The 45,000 number is all time uber drivers, since its inception in SF, not how many are on the road currently. I don't think you have a good understanding of how surges work or how drivers react if you say 100 cars react to a surge.

It's funny that you can accept my statement that I take 10 cars off the road when I drive; but you can't make the mental leap that if I take 10 cars off the road, every other uber driver does the same.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> The 45,000 number is all time uber drivers, since its inception in SF, not how many are on the road currently. I don't think you have a good understanding of how surges work or how drivers react if you say 100 cars react to a surge.
> 
> It's funny that you can accept my statement that I take 10 cars off the road when I drive; but you can't make the mental leap that if I take 10 cars off the road, every other uber driver does the same.


I really doubt each Uber car results in 10 fewer private cars on the road. If that was really the case, then the effect of Uber in any well-established market would be a dramatic decrease in traffic. At best, each Uber might result in maybe 0.67 fewer cars on the road (about 2 cars left at home for every 3 Uber's on the road).

Also, during rush hours and peak vehicle-for-hire periods, there are likely several thousand Uber vehicles on the road in the SF city area. The only reason taxi's seem more dense is that taxi's are very visibly marked and congregate in taxi stands.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Also cruising around without a fair causes the first available parking spot to be taken once it opens, leading to major parking issues. 
No doubt Ubers are choking up downtown parking. I see drivers all the time sitting and waiting being on the lookout for parking enforcement. It's become impossible to find a meter nowadays.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

andaas said:


> I really doubt each Uber car results in 10 fewer private cars on the road. If that was really the case, then the effect of Uber in any well-established market would be a dramatic decrease in traffic. At best, each Uber might result in maybe 0.67 fewer cars on the road (about 2 cars left at home for every 3 Uber's on the road).
> 
> Also, during rush hours and peak vehicle-for-hire periods, there are likely several thousand Uber vehicles on the road in the SF city area. The only reason taxi's seem more dense is that taxi's are very visibly marked and congregate in taxi stands.


I haven't performed a study on how many uber users own cars. Are you saying only two pax out of the twenty rides a day don't own cars and uber is their choice over walking? I'm not sure how you figure an uber driver doesn't even remove one full car from the road.

There's a huge difference between saying there are thousands of ubers on the road and thinking it's 45,000.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> I haven't performed a study on how many uber users own cars. Are you saying only two pax out of the twenty rides a day don't own cars and uber is their choice over walking? I'm not sure how you figure an uber driver doesn't even remove one full car from the road.
> 
> There's a huge difference between saying there are thousands of ubers on the road and thinking it's 45,000.


I'm not basing this on any facts. Just my personal opinion of how many cars are left at home and/or never purchased because "Uber is so freaking awesome!!1!~!!!~".

Also, the statement of 45,000 Uber's on the road is a little misleading. Obviously there are not 45,000 concurrent drivers on the road at any given time, however, Uber has even published reports of "current active drivers" in various markets, SF included, that indicate well over 35,000 active drivers in SF (active drivers are considered any driver that complete at least 4 trips in a calendar month). It's safe to say that 8-10% of active drivers may be online during peak/rush hours, so using Oct 2015 numbers, you are potentially adding 3,500-3,800 vehicles onto the streets. And this is Uber only, does not factor drivers exclusive to Lyft (not a huge number, but definitely a few percent).

The chart below was from a recent report published by Uber, and is supposedly numbers leading up to Oct 2015:


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Jermin8r89 said:


> More like wholr new coach and personal players


LA Lambs are not that far behind.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

So, 35,000 uber drivers in SF take a minimum of four trips each. 140,000 trips a month at the _minimum_. That's the number that would be on the road in another method of transportation if they weren't riding uber. Are you saying well over 115,000 of those riders don't own cars and depend on uber, taxis or public transport to get around? The rest are the car owners that choose to uber as a convenience. I don't think we can use the total number of uber cars on the road to estimate the it has on traffic, without considering the true total number of rides in the same timeframe.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

My point is, removing 10 cars per Uber is outrageously high. My estimate of 2/3 of a vehicle per Uber is likely low-balling.

There really is no way of knowing how many people have stopped driving, sold their vehicle, or opted not to drive their car in lieu of using Uber - outside of blind surveys which never seem all that accurate.

The issue is that traffic levels have increased over the past several years. What has changed in the past several years? The population has likely increased, as has the number of drivers participating in TNC systems. TNC is *NOT* ridesharing, 99% of the drivers involved are there FOR PROFIT, which means that if they were not attempting to earn money, they would not be on the road.


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

forqalso said:


> I haven't performed a study on how many uber users own cars. Are you saying only two pax out of the twenty rides a day don't own cars and uber is their choice over walking? I'm not sure how you figure an uber driver doesn't even remove one full car from the road.
> 
> There's a huge difference between saying there are thousands of ubers on the road and thinking it's 45,000.


I never said there's 45,000 drivers on at once. I understand how surges work completely. If drivers see surges from the drivers app you don't believe drivers will go towards it?


andaas said:


> I'm not basing this on any facts. Just my personal opinion of how many cars are left at home and/or never purchased because "Uber is so freaking awesome!!1!~!!!~".
> 
> Also, the statement of 45,000 Uber's on the road is a little misleading. Obviously there are not 45,000 concurrent drivers on the road at any given time, however, Uber has even published reports of "current active drivers" in various markets, SF included, that indicate well over 35,000 active drivers in SF (active drivers are considered any driver that complete at least 4 trips in a calendar month). It's safe to say that 8-10% of active drivers may be online during peak/rush hours, so using Oct 2015 numbers, you are potentially adding 3,500-3,800 vehicles onto the streets. And this is Uber only, does not factor drivers exclusive to Lyft (not a huge number, but definitely a few percent).
> 
> ...


Don't even waste your time with the guy.. any opinion you have clearly gets debated but his high estimations can't be touched.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

Brooklyn said:


> I never said there's 45,000 drivers on at once. I understand how surges work completely. If drivers see surges from the drivers app you don't believe drivers will go towards it?
> 
> Don't even waste your time with the guy.. any opinion you have clearly gets debated but his high estimations can't be touched.


High estimates? At 25 rides a day, I thought saying only ten would be low. I was asking how the other poster came up with only a one out of three driver net loss without consideration of the number of trips. Seems pretty reasonable to me.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> High estimates? At 25 rides a day, I thought saying only ten would be low. I was asking how the other poster came up with only a one out of three driver net loss without consideration of the number of trips. Seems pretty reasonable to me.


You seem to think that Uber has filled a hole and that the majority of people using Uber would be driving their own car if not for you and your magic Prius.

The fact is, the majority of people you are carting around would have used taxi's, a bus (now that rates are competitive with the city bus), an airport shuttle, etc.

Until Uber and Lyft are 100% transparent with driver capacity in each city during rush hour periods, there is simply no way to know if they are what is behind the added traffic. All I know is if I open the passenger app and point it anywhere in SF, there are cars on top of cars. Seems crowded.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

andaas said:


> You seem to think that Uber has filled a hole and that the majority of people using Uber would be driving their own car if not for you and your magic Prius.
> 
> The fact is, the majority of people you are carting around would have used taxi's, a bus (now that rates are competitive with the city bus), an airport shuttle, etc.
> 
> Until Uber and Lyft are 100% transparent with driver capacity in each city during rush hour periods, there is simply no way to know if they are what is behind the added traffic. All I know is if I open the passenger app and point it anywhere in SF, there are cars on top of cars. Seems crowded.


No, I'm speaking from experience. As I said earlier today, I think it's somewhere just less than half of my riders are car owners. As you said, you believe that in a day of driving with who know how many riders total, seventy-five, three uber drivers would only result in one less car on the road. Only one in 75 San Francisco uber customers own vehicles and would use it if not for uber. That's your math.


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## Brooklyn (Jul 29, 2014)

andaas said:


> You seem to think that Uber has filled a hole and that the majority of people using Uber would be driving their own car if not for you and your magic Prius.
> 
> The fact is, the majority of people you are carting around would have used taxi's, a bus (now that rates are competitive with the city bus), an airport shuttle, etc.
> 
> Until Uber and Lyft are 100% transparent with driver capacity in each city during rush hour periods, there is simply no way to know if they are what is behind the added traffic. All I know is if I open the passenger app and point it anywhere in SF, there are cars on top of cars. Seems crowded.


Telling you dude it's not worth it. Dude has his idea and it won't change.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

Brooklyn said:


> Telling you dude it's not worth it. Dude has his idea and it won't change.


Someone on here has said before, "If you were good a math, you wouldn't be driving for uber" and it's true. If you believe three drivers and seventy-five trips equals one less car on the road, you have a problem with math and are well suited for a long career as an uber driver. If, on the other hand, you believe the cars you see in the driveways of the houses that the pax exit from might be used by them if uber were not an option, then maybe there's hope for you. And no, not every rider has a car; but, one in seventy-five? Give me a break.

https://www.sfmta.com/sites/default/files/2013 SAN FRANCISCO TRANSPORTATION FACT SHEET.pdf

Basically, this link will show 79% of households in San Francisco have access to at least one car. That leaves 21% without wheels. Are you saying that 21% is the greatest majority of pax, if you agree with the other poster that says only one in seventy-five riders leave their car at home. Or do you believe, San Franciscans bought their cars only to walk past them to get into city buses and taxis before uber came along?


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

Brooklyn said:


> You're completely blinding yourself.
> 
> When/if you see a surge in a particular area what do you/most drivers do? Chase the surge. Traffic can be built off that alone.


Why exactly to people chase the surge? I'm in the bay area, and there's rides everywhere. Was driving people at 1 am yesterday. Never went more than 5 minutes without a request.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> Someone on here has said before, "If you were good a math, you wouldn't be driving for uber" and it's true. If you believe three drivers and seventy-five trips equals one less car on the road, you have a problem with math and are well suited for a long career as an uber driver. If, on the other hand, you believe the cars you see in the driveways of the houses that the pax exit from might be used by them if uber were not an option, then maybe there's hope for you. And no, not every rider has a car; but, one in seventy-five? Give me a break.


Right, and in what world does every Uber driver do 25 rides a day? Oh right, this is all about you and your magic Prius.

Brooklyn - I don't really care how this goes, I'm not invested. I don't live in SF, I don't even drive for Uber/Lyft anymore, lol.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

anass said:


> Right, and in what world does every Uber driver do 25 rides a day? Oh right, this is all about you and your magic Prius.
> 
> Brooklyn - I don't really care how this goes, I'm not invested. I don't live in SF, I don't even drive for Uber/Lyft anymore, lol.


So you're just talking about things you don't have a clue about, then. Twenty-five rides a day in San Francisco isn't a problem. Even if using half that number shows your statement to be ignorant.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> So you're just talking about things you don't have a clue about, then. Twenty-five rides a day in San Francisco isn't a problem. Even if using half that number shows your statement to be ignorant.


Twenty-five rides a day for EVERY driver? Yeah, because every driver works 8 hours or more a day? Cool, yeah. Got it. You're right!

Or does the magic Prius allow you to complete 8 trips/hour?


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

anass post: 1822250 said:


> Twenty-five rides a day for EVERY driver? Yeah, because every driver works 8 hours or more a day? Cool, yeah. Got it. You're right!
> 
> Or does the magic Prius allow you to complete 8 trips/hour?


Like I already said, from my experience. And eight trips an hour? Who needs eight an hour to get to twenty-five a day? I already said you have to be bad at math to drive Uber and now you've proved me right. Why have you turned to insults? Is it because you realize your position is clearly wrong? Or does every conversation with you end up there? I think Uber results to more cars off the road than you and gave reasons why I feel that way. When considering total number of rides, instead of the number of drivers, most reasonable people would see that Uber removes way more cars than it adds. You think the net reductions is close to zero and the only reason why is my "magic Prius".


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> Like I already said, from my experience. And eight trips an hour? Who needs eight an hour to get to twenty-five a day? I already said you have to be bad at math to drive Uber and now you've proved me right. Why have you turned to insults? Is it because you realize your position is clearly wrong? Or does every conversation with you end up there? I think Uber results to more cars off the road than you and gave reasons why I feel that way. When considering total number of rides, instead of the number of drivers, most reasonable people would see that Uber removes way more cars than it adds. You think the net reductions is close to zero and the only reason why is my "magic Prius".


I realize 8 trips/hour isn't required to reach 25 trips a day. My point is, any driver who is completing 25 trips a day is working a minimum 5-6 hours (more likely closer to 8 hours). Guess what? Your car is on the road that FULL 6-8 hours. Multiply that by the number of Uber+Lyft cars available... and you start to see where traffic starts to pile up. How many drivers are putting in 8, 10, 14 hour days?

If you are completing 25 trips in 3 hours, then you are averaging 8.3 trips/hour (hence the magic Prius).

You know what happens when someone drives themselves to work? Their car is on the road for 45-75 minutes, it is then PARKED for 9 hours. (Now, parking is a different can of worms... but that's not what this discussion is about).

"Rideshare" companies are just taxis with a fancy name working outside of a structure that puts limits on driver capacity. You know what would happen if there were no limits on taxi medallions/licenses in a city and any driver could throw a taxi sign on their car and start providing trips? There would be 12,000 taxi's on the streets. Setting limits to the numbers of these vehicles is an important measure that helps control traffic - removing these limits (as Uber/Lyft have done) *will* result in far more cars on the road. These companies are blindly recruiting drivers, and will continue to blindly recruit drivers until SDV's can take their place.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

anass said:


> I realize 8 trips/hour isn't required to reach 25 trips a day. My point is, any driver who is completing 25 trips a day is working a minimum 5-6 hours (more likely closer to 8 hours). Guess what? Your car is on the road that FULL 6-8 hours. Multiply that by the number of Uber+Lyft cars available... and you start to see where traffic starts to pile up. How many drivers are putting in 8, 10, 14 hour days?
> 
> If you are completing 25 trips in 3 hours, then you are averaging 8.3 trips/hour (hence the magic Prius).
> 
> ...


Why take out parking? Because you know there is hardly any in SF, so the majority of car owners leave theirs at home now that they have a more attractive alternative.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> Why take out parking? Because you know there is hardly any in SF, so the majority of car owners leave theirs at home now that they have a more attractive alternative.


Because this issue is not discussing parking. I realize parking is a problem but that's not what THIS discussion is about. We are discussing traffic.

Here's some casual reading, where someone who analyzes traffic impacts for a living used Uber's data to estimate the impact on traffic speed with the addition of 1,900 Uber vehicles in NYC.

See, I'm helping you out. Your magic Prius probably doesn't contribute much more than 0.004% to slowing traffic down in SF.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

anass said:


> Because this issue is not discussing parking. I realize parking is a problem but that's not what THIS discussion is about. We are discussing traffic.
> 
> Here's some casual reading, where someone who analyzes traffic impacts for a living used Uber's data to estimate the impact on traffic speed with the addition of 1,900 Uber vehicles in NYC.
> 
> See, I'm helping you out. Your magic Prius probably doesn't contribute much more than 0.004% to slowing traffic down in SF.


So, lack of parking in San Francisco as a reason cars are kept off the road by Uber passengers is irrelevant; but a blog about Manhattan traffic isn't? I notice you haven't taken into consideration the fact that car ownership in Manhattan is only 23%, which is far few than the 71% of San Franciscan households with at least one car. That's an unfair comparison. With less riders that own cars, there has to be less cars removed from traffic by Uber drivers. That's just common sense.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> So, lack of parking in San Francisco as a reason cars are kept off the road by Uber passengers is irrelevant; but a blog about Manhattan traffic isn't? I notice you haven't taken into consideration the fact that car ownership in Manhattan is only 23%, which is far few than the 71% of San Franciscan households with at least one car. That's an unfair comparison. With less riders that own cars, there has to be less cars removed from traffic by Uber drivers. That's just common sense.


Obviously NYC =/= SF. The cities are different. However, if you think the impact of several thousand cars on the streets full time vs. commute time only is "reducing traffic", you aren't paying attention.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

anass said:


> Obviously NYC =/= SF. The cities are different. However, if you think the impact of several thousand cars on the streets full time vs. commute time only is "reducing traffic", you aren't paying attention.


Right, because the people that use Uber outside of commute times are only the 29% that don't own cars. Really? Even if an Uber driver only takes two riders to work, that's double off the road compared to what was added. Many of the other rides throughout the day are these same people that chose not to drive themselves to work. More are those that drive and have parking at work; but need to move around the city during the day. They know it is easier to Uber than to move their car from one gargage to another or to find street parking.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> Right, because the people that use Uber outside of commute times are only the 29% that don't own cars. Really? Even if an Uber driver only takes two riders to work, that's double off the road compared to what was added. Many of the other rides throughout the day are these same people that chose not to drive themselves to work. More are those that drive and have parking at work; but need to move around the city during the day. They know it is easier to Uber than to move their car from one gargage to another or to find street parking.


It's all relative to perspective. Keep on thinking that Uber+Lyft are making traffic better, air cleaner, and the world a better place. Studies are beginning to place blame on these companies - and it's not JUST these companies adding to the problem - Uber, Lyft, Grubhub/Seamless, Postmates, DoorDash, Favor, Caviar... every one of those services is throwing extra vehicles into traffic.

In your defense, at least Uber+Lyft is reducing the 0.67 cars per driver... that's better than the rest of them which probably factor in around 0.2. At least the delivery companies aren't adding quite as many drivers.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

anass said:


> It's all relative to perspective. Keep on thinking that Uber+Lyft are making traffic better, air cleaner, and the world a better place. Studies are beginning to place blame on these companies - and it's not JUST these companies adding to the problem - Uber, Lyft, Grubhub/Seamless, Postmates, DoorDash, Favor, Caviar... every one of those services is throwing extra vehicles into traffic.
> 
> In your defense, at least Uber+Lyft is reducing the 0.67 cars per driver... that's better than the rest of them which probably factor in around 0.2. At least the delivery companies aren't adding quite as many drivers.


You seem to like putting words in other people's mouths. And you fail to realize, that the break even point for each Uber driver is met with the first pax of the day that chooses Uber over driving themself. I guess you believe every food delivery goes to someone that would otherwise brown bag their lunch. Not one would drive to a restaurant, would they?

But still, it's odd that you can say Uber reduces the number of cars on the road, just a smaller number than what I think, and also believe they increase traffic and pollution. You want it both ways.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> But still, it's odd that you can say Uber reduces the number of cars on the road, just a smaller number than what I think, and also believe they increase traffic and pollution. You want it both ways.


You've got my number, of 1 Uber car removing 0.67 cars. So from my perspective, Uber is causing MORE cars on the road. While from YOUR perspective it is subtracting 9.

Again, as I said, it's all perspective.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

anass said:


> You've got my number, of 1 Uber car removing 0.67 cars. So from my perspective, Uber is causing MORE cars on the road. While from YOUR perspective it is subtracting 9.
> 
> Again, as I said, it's all perspective.


As I already said, any reasonable person would realize, the first pax with a car that chooses to leave it home and take an Uber, means that Uber is a net "no change" in the number of cars on the road that day. Any other riders after that that have made the same choice means less cars on the road.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> As I already said, any reasonable person would realize, the first pax with a car that chooses to leave it home and take an Uber, means that Uber is a net "no change" in the number of cars on the road that day. Any other riders after that that have made the same choice means less cars on the road.


As I will repeat... that does NOT mean EVERY UBER DRIVER will transport ONE of those passengers EVERY DAY.

You also seem to think that EVERY UBER DRIVER is completing 25 trips per day on average (I assure you, there are a LARGE number of drivers completing 5 or less).


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

andaas said:


> As I will repeat... that does NOT mean EVERY UBER DRIVER will transport ONE of those passengers EVERY DAY.
> 
> You also seem to think that EVERY UBER DRIVER is completing 25 trips per day on average (I assure you, there are a LARGE number of drivers completing 5 or less).


71% of the residents own cars, I think the odds are in favor that they'll get at least one. I never said every driver gets 25 rides but we are talking about Uber the are on the road all day, weren't we? The drivers with 5 or less are not driving eight hours a day. They supplementing their income while driving to and from work. That means the car as an Uber is a wash, since it was already on the road as a commuter. It would be driven whether the driver did Uber or not.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

forqalso said:


> 71% of the residents own cars, I think the odds are in favor that they'll get at least one. I never said every driver gets 25 rides but we are talking about Uber the are on the road all day, weren't we? The drivers with 5 or less are not driving eight hours a day. They supplementing their income while driving to and from work. That means the car as an Uber is a wash, since it was already on the road as a commuter. It would be driven whether the driver did Uber or not.


LOL, I honestly don't even remember what this is about anymore.

Oh yeah, Uber+Lyft = more traffic on the road overall vs. had they never existed.

I'm still good with that.


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

anass said:


> LOL, I honestly don't even remember what this is about anymore.
> 
> Oh yeah, Uber+Lyft = more traffic on the road overall vs. had they never existed.
> 
> I'm still good with that.


I agree. They all drive around the city empty until they are forced to pick up a passenger that cannot own a car of their own. Makes perfect sense.


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## LCR_dog (Aug 29, 2016)

Uber changed my life too
People used to say I'm hard , long, able to hold , huge
I didn't believe 
But after I see the comments I believed


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Uber is the new city bus. The part of the article which I find disturbing is where SanFran asks CPUC to "do a study". Typical socialist trap, a study could take years and cost millions.
Grow some balls SanFran and limit active TNC vehicles and deactivate those whom haven't done a job in over 60 days.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

forqalso said:


> Right, because the people that use Uber outside of commute times are only the 29% that don't own cars. Really? Even if an Uber driver only takes two riders to work, that's double off the road compared to what was added. Many of the other rides throughout the day are these same people that chose not to drive themselves to work. More are those that drive and have parking at work; but need to move around the city during the day. They know it is easier to Uber than to move their car from one gargage to another or to find street parking.


Drivers who drive themselves will have very few dead miles. Plus those who have a need to move around the city during the day may not have driven themselves in the past but used public transport, or if it was close, walked.

How can an uber driver, who drops off a pax and AT THE VERY LEAST has dead miles to go pick up the next one (unless it's the same spot, which happens very rarely) have less impact on traffic than that pax driving themselves to work and parking until they need to drive somewhere else?

The only way there are less MILES driven overall is if the pax all pool. And we know how great that is. IF uber actually cared about reducing traffic they'd pay the driver for each pool trip by each pax (doubling or tripling the driver's pay when multiple riders are in the car). They coul charge pax lowered rates then but the driver would still make more and it would become more difficult to get drivers to take trips OTHER than pool.

When you take into account dead miles, which equals more TRAFFIC, how can uber possibly not make traffic worse?


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## forqalso (Jun 1, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Drivers who drive themselves will have very few dead miles. Plus those who have a need to move around the city during the day may not have driven themselves in the past but used public transport, or if it was close, walked.
> 
> How can an uber driver, who drops off a pax and AT THE VERY LEAST has dead miles to go pick up the next one (unless it's the same spot, which happens very rarely) have less impact on traffic than that pax driving themselves to work and parking until they need to drive somewhere else?
> 
> ...


A lot of the traffic problem is limited to certain times of the day. Morning and evening commute. Also, should we consider an an Uber driving down an empty street as contributing to any kind of traffic, because outside of rush hour that's mostly what I see. Rarely do I sit through multiple red lights, unless I'm on Battery Street at five o'clock. There's more city in San Francisco than downtown and more times of day than rush hour. Meaningless dead miles in the Sunset District to pick up a rider to go to the Mission don't add to any traffic. Also, in San Francisco, it is very common to immediately pick up another rider on the same block as the drop-off. Many times I've had my next ride open the door for the previous rider. You have to consider the fact San Francisco's population density is well over 17,000 people per square mile. Houston has only 3,500 per square mile. That's almost five times more dense and that equates to a greater chance for less dead miles.


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## Peanut hello (Sep 19, 2016)

LCR_dog said:


> View attachment 81797
> Uber changed my life too
> People used to say I'm hard , long, able to hold , huge
> I didn't believe
> But after I see the comments I believed


The only thing thats missing is lotion,


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## Mr.Pink (Dec 15, 2016)

LCR_dog said:


> View attachment 81797
> Uber changed my life too
> People used to say I'm hard , long, able to hold , huge
> I didn't believe
> But after I see the comments I believed


Post of the week brother! Then I look at you and think, he's not joking is he?


Peanut hello said:


> The only thing thats missing is lotion,


Maybe he's got the motion lotion instead of water and mints?


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## UberXking (Oct 14, 2014)

More people live, visit and work in the bay area than ever before. 
Protect the poor and prevent traffic jams by banning the cabs. Make it illegal to cross the street in single file. Ticket those who talk on the cell phone while walking


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