# Apply for a NYS Autonomous Vehicle Technology Demonstration / Testing Permit



## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

NYS has pulled the trigger and decided to actually do it, joining California, Nevada and Arizona. There was a lot of discussion back in May about this possibility. Last year, NYC began considering supporting infrastructure.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/from-crains-new-york-new-yorks-future-is-driverless.162029/
https://uberpeople.net/threads/3-00...ld-replace-13-000-new-york-city-taxis.131855/
https://uberpeople.net/threads/new-york-drivers-hit-back-at-ubers-self-driving-cars.132148/
Even the NYTimes is excited. Supposedly there was a June 13th demonstration, but I've not seen any reports. In NYS, SDCs must be accompanied by a cop and are barred from navigating near school and construction zones. Did I mention the $5 million insurance policy required? Hurry, hurry, your window to apply closes April 1 2018 (maybe it's an April fool's joke?), reports to the state due March 2018, according to the DMV web page.
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*Who can apply*
Manufacturers of "autonomous vehicle technology," or entities creating such technology working in conjunction with manufacturers can apply to test or demonstrate autonomous vehicles on New York roadways.

*You must agree to submit your test/demonstration report*
You must agree to submit your report on demonstrations or tests, undertaken pursuant to a DMV permit, to the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles no later than March 1, 2018. Please send the report via email or mail to

Autonomous Vehicle Testing & Demonstration Unit
New York State Department of Motor Vehicles
6 Empire State Plaza, Rm 410B
Albany NY 12228

The law permitting the demonstrations or tests [2] is set to expire April 1, 2018.

*Vehicles listed on your application must*

comply with all federal standards and applicable New York State inspection standards
have a $5 million insurance policy
*Your autonomous vehicles must have a licensed driver behind the wheel*

A person holding a valid driver license must be in the driver's seat while a vehicle is operated on public highways. That person must be prepared to take control when required to in order to operate the vehicle safely and lawfully.
Every test vehicle operator must be adequately trained in the safe operation of the test vehicle to ensure both legal and safe operation.
*You must specify when and where your vehicle(s) will travel*
Your application must specify the routing information. This includes

date and time
origin and destination
sequence of roads on which your vehicle(s) intends to travel
total routing distance in miles to the nearest 1/10 mile
*How to apply*
Complete

Autonomous Vehicle Technology Demonstration/Testing Application Form (AV-1) [3]
Autonomous Vehicle Technology Demonstration/Testing Addendum (AV-2) [4]
*ONLY* applications containing completed forms AV-1 and AV-2 along with proof of insurance and routing information will be accepted.


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

It doesnt matter. Sdcs will hit cities like nyc last. The infrastructure is a millenium away. In 10 years uber investors will jump off roof tops


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Fubernuber said:


> It doesnt matter. Sdcs will hit cities like nyc last. The infrastructure is a millenium away. In 10 years uber investors will jump off roof tops


hmmmm ... are you being far too optimistic?  Or perhaps simply in total denial?  I think maybe someplace in the middle.


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

Maven said:


> hmmmm ... are you being far too optimistic?  Or perhaps simply in total denial?  I think maybe someplace in the middle.


I know you are a wholesale buyer of ubers self driving car pie in the sky. Its not happening anywhere anytime soon in america. Too many interests against it and too many problems that can not be solved with current infrastructure. Also too much liability for uber. When their investors understand that uber will be sued daily for opperating their own sdc then theie investors will understand why ford and gm were never interested in selling cars direct to consumer or running their own taxi service. I know you are about to link me to fords plan doing just that. Dont. Think more pragmatic like putin.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Fubernuber said:


> I know you are a wholesale buyer of ubers self driving car pie in the sky. Its not happening anywhere anytime soon in america. Too many interests against it and too many problems that can not be solved with current infrastructure. Also too much liability for uber. When their investors understand that uber will be sued daily for opperating their own sdc then theie investors will understand why ford and gm were never interested in selling cars direct to consumer or running their own taxi service. I know you are about to link me to fords plan doing just that. Dont. Think more pragmatic like putin.


I do not consider myself a "a wholesale buyer of ubers self driving car pie in the sky". In fact, I think that Uber is unlikely to be first to market. Uber will be forced to lease the technology. However, I believe that considering the massive amount of money involved, it is just a matter of time until the technical and political challenges are overcome. I agree with you that most of the current time estimates are too optimistic, but if you double them then what is promised becomes far more likely.

As for risk, Uber is expert at finding ways to shift risk onto others. Look no further than the risk that is forced upon independent-contractor drivers. I do not plan on linking you to Ford or GM since I have no idea if you have any relationship with either. I am unclear how Putin might be involved. Russian "pragmatism" has traditionally involved "acquiring" technology developed by others (example: the atomic bomb).


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

Even doubling the estimates is VERY optimistic. I think self driving cars defeat the purpose of uber. Why do we need uber? In nyc yes we need a base to dispatch the car so there is some need for uber. How would uber compete with someone like me who can buy these cars with no financing and have much lower opperating costs than uber? Its not like i am building computers or cars here. All i would need is cash, a place to maintain the fleet, a business and base (doable with well funded partners) and marketing. Today uber can compete on the current landscape because they are the pioneer. Once their only claim to fame is gone ( legions of drivers), what do they have left? A soiled name that few people feel loyalty for? I am really struggling to undetstand two things. Maybe a creative liberal can enlighten me

1. How does having their own fleet of self driving cars tomorow, benefit uber? How exactly are they going to compete against well capitalized private individuals who can get on the sdc livery waggon for much less costs and liabilities?
2. If fubernuber sdc car service gets sued when a crack needle sticks a rider then nobody will notice. If it happens to uber then its a severed digit each time. 

How does self driving cars benefit a company that maintains its market share by having the largest network of driver partners? Why do you think a much smarter and agile company like google with hordes of cash that they dont have to borow, cant put uber out of business overnight? I just dont get the logic. The only thing that is standing between uber and its inevitable obscurity is its large market share and difficult degree of entry given the cost to obtain the drivers.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Fubernuber said:


> Even doubling the estimates is VERY optimistic. I think self driving cars defeat the purpose of uber. Why do we need uber? In nyc yes we need a base to dispatch the car so there is some need for uber. How would uber compete with someone like me who can buy these cars with no financing and have much lower opperating costs than uber? Its not like i am building computers or cars here. All i would need is cash, a place to maintain the fleet, a business and base (doable with well funded partners) and marketing. Today uber can compete on the current landscape because they are the pioneer. Once their only claim to fame is gone ( legions of drivers), what do they have left? A soiled name that few people feel loyalty for? I am really struggling to undetstand two things. Maybe a creative liberal can enlighten me


If I find a "creative liberal" then I'll be sure to send him your way. Meanwhile, you'll have to make due with with a cynical, moderate, pragmatist, who may appear to be a brainwashed dem/liberal progressive snowflake to those far enough to the right. 

Uber does not use "bases" outside of NYC, where they are required because of the political influence of the TLC. Uber's primacy is based upon their "market share", that has 2 parts, riders and drivers. That in turn is based on years of aggressive marketing, savvy legal and political operations. You personally will never be able to compete without $Millions or $Billions. It has already been tried by Lyft and others. Most of their success results from Uber's own screw-up. Didi Chung is the ONLY one to have beat Uber at its own game because of their home field advantage.


Fubernuber said:


> 1. How does having their own fleet of self driving cars tomorow, benefit uber? How exactly are they going to compete against well capitalized private individuals who can get on the sdc livery waggon for much less costs and liabilities?
> 2. If fubernuber sdc car service gets sued when a crack needle sticks a rider then nobody will notice. If it happens to uber then its a severed digit each time.
> 3. How does self driving cars benefit a company that maintains its market share by having the largest network of driver partners? Why do you think a much smarter and agile company like google with hordes of cash that they dont have to borow, cant put uber out of business overnight? I just dont get the logic. The only thing that is standing between uber and its inevitable obscurity is its large market share and difficult degree of entry given the cost to obtain the drivers.


1. SDCs will eliminate Uber's largest single expense, driver payouts. The new cost of maintaining and operating SDCs will be a fraction of driver payouts when amortized over time, which will shrink rapidly as the cost of SDCs goes down 10%-20% each year. For the first time ever, Uber will be profitable.
2. "fubernuber sdc car service" may be given a real chance by Uber itself. If Uber follows traditional strategy, they will never carry the risks of owning, operating, or maintaining a single SDC, let alone a fleet of them. Instead the will "lease" SDCs to "independent contractors" who will.
3. Google/Waymo may be the best positioned to seriously challenge Uber. Far more likely that there is a deal for licensing or even a merger.


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## Fubernuber (Jan 15, 2017)

Maven said:


> If I find a "creative liberal" then I'll be sure to send him your way. Meanwhile, you'll have to make due with with a cynical, moderate, pragmatist, who may appear to be a brainwashed dem/liberal progressive snowflake to those far enough to the right.
> 
> Uber does not use "bases" outside of NYC, where they are required because of the political influence of the TLC. Uber's primacy is based upon their "market share", that has 2 parts, riders and drivers. That in turn is based on years of aggressive marketing, savvy legal and political operations. You personally will never be able to compete without $Millions or $Billions. It has already been tried by Lyft and others. Most of their success results from Uber's own screw-up. Didi Chung is the ONLY one to have beat Uber at its own game because of their home field advantage.
> 
> ...


I like your answer but i hope and believe you will be wrong.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

Fubernuber said:


> I like your answer but i hope and believe you will be wrong.


I hope that I'm wrong too, but I do not think that I will be, at least not in the "historic trends'. As for time frames you, I, and the so called experts are just guessing. There are too many unknown factors for any reasonable accuracy.

Have you discerned my "real warning" yet? SDCs are just a visible avatar of a much larger, more pervasive, and revolutionary set of changes to most of society over the next 20-50 years that will be incited by automation. Large segments of those currently employed will be replaced by automation. Another segment of full-time employees will be converted to part-time. Lost jobs will never return. The gulf between rich and poor will widen like never before. We must begin to take action now to minimize the social upheavals to come.


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