# Uber just gave us another pay cut



## Ron Jeremy Sez (Jul 9, 2017)

Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.

This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless ******s.

88% increase in time .06125 x 88% = .0539 Total = .1151 ($6.91 per hour)
15% decrease in mileage .7125 x 15% = .10687 Total .6056

This equates to a roughly 3%-4% paycut

If they do this across the board it will lead to another $1.11 Billion dollars in revenue for the company ( Uber did $37B in sales last year)

This is the final straw for me. I resigned from UBER and uninstalled the ap this morning. I hope more drivers follow suit!


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


You'll have the app reinstalled before the end of the week.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

I agree we just got a 25% cut which coupled with the increase on pay per minute is about a 10-15% pay cut. driving Lyft from now on.


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## Ron Jeremy Sez (Jul 9, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> You'll have the app reinstalled before the end of the week.


Naw...I was getting near the edge with this company anyway..this just sped up my decision.


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## Ribak (Jun 30, 2017)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> I resigned from UBER and uninstalled the ap this morning. I hope more drivers follow suit!


Thank you. Hopefully, many drivers will follow your lead. Way too many right now.


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

Chicago market got a cut too.  An $18 airport run is now $14 but uber still charges pax $35.


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## Ron Jeremy Sez (Jul 9, 2017)

Ribak said:


> Thank you. Hopefully, many drivers will follow your lead. Way too many right now.


I take it you will stay and let them continue to under value your effort



Zap said:


> Chicago market got a cut too.  An $18 airport run is now $14 but uber still charges pax $35.


Wow...you guys got hosed worse than we did!!


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> I take it you will stay and let them continue to under value your effort
> 
> Wow...you guys got hosed worse than we did!!


Lyft typically copycats uber... I think I'll take a break from uber and run with Lyft before they cut rates to match uber's.


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## Ron Jeremy Sez (Jul 9, 2017)

Zap said:


> Lyft typically copycats uber... I think I'll take a break from uber and run with Lyft before they cut rates to match uber's.


This is a great opportunity for Lyft to really put their foot on UBERS throat and capture market share. However your probably right...they will probably follow suit shortly if they see that it really doesnt effect UBERS driver base or revenue. The sad thing is there are people out there who will continue to blindly follow this lemmings over the cliff


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

In theory taking away from mileage pay and increasing per minute pay could be very helpful for high traffic areas and times. But it appears they calculated this so that it results in a net pay cut according to what most are saying (I haven't done the math yet myself). I guess we should have learned by now not to expect any better from the company? It seems like they are doing whatever they can to be profitable for the IPO....at our expense.

Nothing yet in my market Central Atlantic Florida. Hopefully it's not coming here.


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## wonderfulcarscent (Aug 26, 2018)

touberornottouber said:


> In theory taking away from mileage pay and increasing per minute pay could be very helpful for high traffic areas and times. But it appears they calculated this so that it results in a net pay cut according to what most are saying (I haven't done the math yet myself). I guess we should have learned by now not to expect any better from the company? It seems like they are doing whatever they can to be profitable for the IPO....at our expense.
> 
> Nothing yet in my market Central Atlantic Florida. Hopefully it's not coming here.


It's coming. Just a matter of time.


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## Ron Jeremy Sez (Jul 9, 2017)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...





Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


So I just wanted to make sure I had not over reacted with my previous post so I dated down and took a look at my last 20 rides and guess how many times the new pay schedule was to my benefit...exactly zero, none, nada...


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Uber Knows they have surplus drivers.
New drivers don't really know the distance or time pay.


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## crowuber (Feb 16, 2018)

lol i went from driving about 25 days out of the month to about 4 or 5 maximum. Yet, I still come here to complain about chit and vent. That's how crummy being an U/L driver is! Eventually I think they're just going to say screw it and lower the pay to 25 cents a mile!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


NOPE

My car WONT START for Those Rates !



Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> This is a great opportunity for Lyft to really put their foot on UBERS throat and capture market share. However your probably right...they will probably follow suit shortly if they see that it really doesnt effect UBERS driver base or revenue. The sad thing is there are people out there who will continue to blindly follow this lemmings over the cliff


Lyft will follow Uber into the Bowels of Hell just like the little *****es that they are !

Is all they have EVER DONE.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

#AnotherOneBitesTheDust


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## the surge within me (Jun 1, 2017)

mbd said:


> New drivers don't really know the distance or time pay.


This is what they are counting on. Also they have know clue about the difference of the old surge or the Charlotte surge.


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## Paul Vincent (Jan 15, 2016)

Those rates suck


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## 45821 (Feb 15, 2016)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


They did this so you could make more money, didn't you know that?


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## BikingBob (May 29, 2018)

Off the tip of my tongue the federal limit is $.45 a mile. But I could be wrong.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

this is why people used to unionize. i'm not sure how you do that in the gig economy.


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## To Mega Therion (Apr 21, 2018)

You don't, that's why it's being pushed by business.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> This is a great opportunity for Lyft to really put their foot on UBERS throat and capture market share. However your probably right...they will probably follow suit shortly if they see that it really doesnt effect UBERS driver base or revenue. The sad thing is there are people out there who will continue to blindly follow this lemmings over the cliff


Houston driver here, Uber cut rates back in June or July. Lyft followed up with the same exact pay cut/structure change last month. We are making less on comparable rides. No question about it.

It is time we organize a good ole fashion strike. An IPO strike, even half assed will get everyone's attention.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


they are gonna keep at it until they get some bad press I bet. Someone needs to get the pay drop to go viral. UBER LOWERS DRIVER PAY FOR IPO might work. I have no idea how one would do it but that's my 2 cents. Both the time and distance rates are awful. The Gov let's us deduct like .52 per mile as the cost of running the car. It looks like the are rolling it out nationally. So for the IPO the books look better. We got upfront pricing screwing the paxes, taking away the surge and now .60 a mile This is more like 180 days of screwing. Someone needs to get em bad press and the best way is to go viral..


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)




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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Zap said:


> Chicago market got a cut too.  An $18 airport run is now $14 but uber still charges pax $35.


I have not used rideshare in a long time since I purchased a car but I had to fly out for a business trip. When I came back, I was about to request an uber and saw the fare estimate was around $36. I opened lyft and saw the same ride would be $22.

I ordered a lyft instead obviously. My job is going to reimburse me anyway but still LOL .


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> they are gonna keep at it until they get some bad press I bet. Someone needs to get the pay drop to go viral. UBER LOWERS DRIVER PAY FOR IPO might work. I have no idea how one would do it but that's my 2 cents. Both the time and distance rates are awful. The Gov let's us deduct like .52 per mile as the cost of running the car. It looks like the are rolling it out nationally. So for the IPO the books look better. We got upfront pricing screwing the paxes, taking away the surge and now .60 a mile This is more like 180 days of screwing. Someone needs to get em bad press and the best way is to go viral..


Every time I hear about a driver suicide or what not, I think to myself, please oh please blame it on the low rates. But they never do.

Truth of the matter is, if we apply pressure to one company, it should be Uber. Once Uber turns over and raises rates, then Lyft will follow. They always have and always will be the follower.


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## Ribak (Jun 30, 2017)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> I take it you will stay and let them continue to under value your effort


I am an Independent Contractor. As such, I have limited expectations for UBER/LYFT.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

The problem is with the time increase is most of later night drives are in no way time sensitive because of no traffic issues. 6 hours per day, 5 days per week traffic can be an issue where you are at a stand still and the time increase takes over. The rest of the time it is just mileage really, the extra time pay is ok, but generally it is a nothing burger.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

The slow never ending grind towards zero continues.


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## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

On the bright side, some of the ants are finally starting to wake up and realize what kind of company they're working for


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## crowuber (Feb 16, 2018)

merryon2nd said:


> On the bright side, some of the ants are finally starting to wake up and realize what kind of company they're working for


Yet, still almost every other passenger tells me of conversations with drivers who make $50 an hour and love this job. One lady told me one guy said he quit his engineer job to do this full time and makes $80,000 a year...I know for a fact some of these lying idiots roam these forums too, shame on them and their lying fantasies


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## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

crowuber said:


> Yet, still almost every other passenger tells me of conversations with drivers who make $50 an hour and love this job. One lady told me one guy said he quit his engineer job to do this full time and makes $80,000 a year...I know for a fact some of these lying idiots roam these forums too, shame on them and their lying fantasies


Alas my friend, as you cannot lead a horse to water and make him drink it too, you also can't fix stupid. Unfortunately, these naive kool-aid drinkers will forever exist within every company ever created by man. lmao
If I could make 80k a year doing this for U/L, I would never have applied (and gotten approved) for my limo license, or shelled out the money to register the family SUV (which never moves anyway unless I'm driving private customers). Nor would I be looking for shop work again. 
But, humans are humans, and they all have dreams. Let them keep their's.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Bon Jovi said:


> They did this so you could make more money, didn't you know that?


IPO 2019


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

crowuber said:


> Yet, still almost every other passenger tells me of conversations with drivers who make $50 an hour and love this job. One lady told me one guy said he quit his engineer job to do this full time and makes $80,000 a year...I know for a fact some of these lying idiots roam these forums too, shame on them and their lying fantasies


Some of those lousy sacks of crap are lying about earnings for a different reason, referral bonuses! 
I had one driver try that on me and I just laughed at him. Started asking him how much a mile and minute he got, tried to lie his way out so "I looked it up for him" and helped him do the math, driving 60 miles an hour in circles is about the only way you are making $50 an hour for more than 20 minutes at a time.


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## Homie G (Oct 19, 2017)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


Drive slower. Surge only. #F acceptancerates


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## Kobayashi Maru (Jun 13, 2018)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


▪▪Khosrowshahi Doesn't think you're "Mindless", however he knows you're Powerless▪▪

Thousands of fellow working poor powerless drivers are waiting to take your place.

To Uber corporate we're nothing but Blood Sacks


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## HRD2UBER (Aug 26, 2016)

Zap said:


> Lyft typically copycats uber... I think I'll take a break from uber and run with Lyft before they cut rates to match uber's.


I dont think so last time Uner did some crazy f__ked up sh*t a lot of drivers went to Lyft. Because I noticed I was getting more Lyft rides...this may help Lyft even more..


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

Agreed. The point where pax start feeling Lyft gets there faster or there's always one in the area that will be the first of the two apps they check first.


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## Mighty Mo (May 19, 2018)

I don't get it, 88% increase over a 15% decrease is substantial.
It's well over 50%!

I don't like the mile rate coming down either, but I am okay with this change for right now.
Briefly looking at your math, and I may be wrong, but where are you that you are getting over 60c a minute? I want that time!
Here in KC I'm getting .11c a minute, which is nothing.
When I run the numbers I'm getting back closer to $12 increase in time, nearly double what your showing at $6.

Defintely appreciate the feeling of having the wool brought over our eyes, but I'll need to see/feel this before I go crying the sky is falling,
all said is done, we are gaining a 73% increase in time paid over one of the other ways we are compensated, per mile.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

crowuber said:


> Yet, still almost every other passenger tells me of conversations with drivers who make $50 an hour and love this job. One lady told me one guy said he quit his engineer job to do this full time and makes $80,000 a year...I know for a fact some of these lying idiots roam these forums too, shame on them and their lying fantasies


Those lying scumbag drivers are looking for referrals.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


Waaaiit!.....we're ants . We must follow the line!


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## buzzoven (Aug 2, 2018)

Kobayashi Maru said:


> ▪▪Khosrowshahi Doesn't think you're "Mindless", however he knows you're Powerless▪▪


Step 1. We admitted we were powerless over Uber and our lives had become unmanageable.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

No.
But you CAN Lead a Horse to Water

And DROWN HIM !


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Ok, you guys suck at data analysis - almost as much as you do in following rumors instead of facts, but that's a different conversation. 

If this is true, it's in one market and it looks very much like a correction in order to make short fares with traffic more worth your time. Let me explain by use of a couple examples: 

Lets assume a 10 minute trip. Now, in my market, generally, a 10 minute trip gives me 10 bucks (AUD) if there is no traffic. It'll usually be about 5km distance at a rate of $1.15 per km. Add on 10 minutes of time at .35 c/minute and you get to $9.25 for the trip. This is arbitrary but lets assume the Kms were slightly higher in order to make the maths easy at $1/minute.

If they pump the time fare by 88% (per the OP) then you have a rate of .66 c/ minute. The reduced distance rate becomes .98 c/ km. 

Given the above example, call it 5.3 km x .98 = $5.19 and .66 x 10 = $6.60 for time. My $10 fare just got boosted to $11.79. 

Even better, if I hit traffic on that run, I'd get even less because of the up-front fare calculations. With this model, the average for the fare will be higher when the algorithm takes in the travel time. Assuming Uber models traffic at the same rate or better, I'm even better off than before. 

Now, lets play with a longer fare. Lets go 37 km distance in traffic. We're taking a guy to the airport at 5 pm on Thursday. Usually, such a ride will clock in like 50 minutes and charge the rider about 60 bucks. (37 x 1.15 ) + (50 x .35) = 60.05 or so ( I'm amazed at how well I estimated that). 

Now, jink the numbers to their newly modified numbers and we get (37 x .98) + (50 x .66) = 36.26 + 33 = $69.26. 

On what planet you think we're not seeing a substantial increase on is beyond me. Just eyballing the figures reported in the OP, I knew it was a bullshit claim that we'd see a decrease. Doing the math, right here, I've shown you that Uber, perhaps for once, actually jinked it in our favor and is holding riders accountable for our time. 

Now, come at me all you want but ya'll suck at maths and you should own it. FFS.


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

I thought you Aussies...

were good at math...

In the states...

THIS JUST DON'T ADD UP....8>O

Rakos


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## Seahawk3 (Oct 5, 2016)

Rushmanyyz said:


> Ok, you guys suck at data analysis - almost as much as you do in following rumors instead of facts, but that's a different conversation.
> 
> If this is true, it's in one market and it looks very much like a correction in order to make short fares with traffic more worth your time. Let me explain by use of a couple examples:
> 
> ...


You used a time period that has excessive time so of course in that circumstance you come out ahead. But on avg meaning 18hrs a day that traffics is not bad you get screwed. Simply put milage has been and still is the real money maker. Taking more money off per mile then you get in time addition is blatant decrease in avg fare payouts.

Also note that your per minute rate is way higher then most markets state side. Most markets here make between 8 cents a minute to 25 cents a minute. So a 88 percent increase while taking 15 percent from milage will avg a loss of income

In my area which is on the higher side I would see a slight increase so I doubt they'll bring it to my market

I think the markets that will be affected by it are going to be markets that have a very low per minute rate already.

If your mileage cut is double that of your increase in time you lose


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## Rakos (Sep 2, 2014)

Yes...butt...butt...butt(woohoo a threefer)...

It MUST mean more money for us....

Uber wouldn't reduce our pay...

again...8>O

Would they....OMG....

The monkey thinks they DID....8>)

Rakos


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Rushmanyyz said:


> Ok, you guys suck at data analysis - almost as much as you do in following rumors instead of facts, but that's a different conversation.
> 
> If this is true, it's in one market and it looks very much like a correction in order to make short fares with traffic more worth your time. Let me explain by use of a couple examples:
> 
> ...


First, whenever fuber alters the driver pay structure, whether it's upfront pricing or this bullshit, they make sure they come out AHEAD.

Fuber did the same shit with Eats when they slashed all the pay rates and added time pay. Drivers make less money on most orders than they did before.

They're cunning and cynical enough to know that in order to sell it to the drivers and the public, they have to let SOME drivers come out ahead, but just like casinos, they ultimately win.

If they wanted to pay the drivers more, they'd simply raise the pay rates.

Fuber cares about OUR time so much that they're holding pax accountable? LOL


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Seahawk3 said:


> You used a time period that has excessive time so of course in that circumstance you come out ahead. But on avg meaning 18hrs a day that traffics is not bad you get screwed. Simply put milage has been and still is the real money maker. Taking more money off per mile then you get in time addition is blatant decrease in avg fare payouts.
> 
> Also note that your per minute rate is way higher then most markets state side. Most markets here make between 8 cents a minute to 25 cents a minute. So a 88 percent increase while taking 15 percent from milage will avg a loss of income
> 
> ...


**** me...

Really? I used "excessive times" to prove something proportional and you somehow think that's a problem? I also used 10 minutes, which is an average. That doesn't matter though because I used a proportion to address the proposed changes on price.

Incidentally, I showed you how to do it as well, you can plug the damn numbers in yourself to figure out the rate differential, if you somehow think that Australia's market is stronger. To be fair, you'll have to apply a 30% negative modifier to it for the dollar exchange rate but, seeing as how you can't manage to follow the figures I already put up, I don't think you should try the extra mod.


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## Seahawk3 (Oct 5, 2016)

Rushmanyyz said:


> @@@@ me...
> 
> Really? I used "excessive times" to prove something proportional and you somehow think that's a problem? I also used 10 minutes, which is an average. That doesn't matter though because I used a proportion to address the proposed changes on price.
> 
> Incidentally, I showed you how to do it as well, you can plug the damn numbers in yourself to figure out the rate differential, if you somehow think that Australia's market is stronger. To be fair, you'll have to apply a 30% negative modifier to it for the dollar exchange rate but, seeing as how you can't manage to follow the figures I already put up, I don't think you should try the extra mod.


Yeah I guess your right after a bunch of different equations most drivers will make slightly more even at the lower rates.

I still stand by the assessment that if your loss of milage pay is double that of your gain on time you lose out more often then not


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

I figured out how you can make more money with UBER's new math....


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Seahawk3 said:


> Yeah I guess your right after a bunch of different equations most drivers will make slightly more even at the lower rates.
> 
> I still stand by the assessment that if your loss of milage pay is double that of your gain on time you lose out more often then not


Ummm... you do that. I have issues with Uber but I can do maths. If Uber makes this change, it'll make you more money. The largest variable in reducing the value of a trip is traffic and this pricing attempts to mitigate it and make the fare higher. The customer pays more, you get more and Uber gets more.

If you know statistics, the wages that Uber pays is the same now as I got 1.4 years ago. That may not be as much as we should get, but it's ridiculous and unhelpful to argue about it hyperbolically on some unofficial Uber forum.

You do you, mate but the argument presented is just factually wrong.


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## Kobayashi Maru (Jun 13, 2018)

Uber's Kalanick & Khosrowshahi have been sending drivers the message for years:

"Uber is not a full time job, never was, never meant to be"
"Uber does Not Now, Nor Ever Will offer a living wage"
"Uber is a gig"
You are NOT an employee. You are a non-employee 
Uber owes you NOTHING 
"Use Uber as supplemental income"
*YET, uber drivers continue to fight the reality *
Get off your butts and out of your cocoon cars and get a real J O B


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

Kobayashi Maru said:


> Uber's Kalanick & Khosrowshahi have been sending drivers the message for years:
> 
> "Uber is not a full time job, never was, never meant to be"
> "Uber does Not Now, Nor Ever Will offer a living wage"
> ...


I would have to agree with you....with the exception for those of us who are retired and use this to supplement our retirement income a bit. For that particular purpose it is actually a good fit. I can't imagine trying to do this full time to pay the bills and raise a family.


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## Kobayashi Maru (Jun 13, 2018)

vtcomics said:


> I would have to agree with you....with the exception for those of us who are retired and use this to supplement our retirement income a bit. For that particular purpose it is actually a good fit. I can't imagine trying to do this full time to pay the bills and raise a family.


Agreed; I remember uber approached AARP to attract more retirees.
Perfect way to supplement a pension, social security, healthier for retiree to get out of the house and someone to chat with. Win-Win


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## toyotarola (Apr 7, 2016)

Rushmanyyz said:


> Ummm... you do that. I have issues with Uber but I can do maths. If Uber makes this change, it'll make you more money. The largest variable in reducing the value of a trip is traffic and this pricing attempts to mitigate it and make the fare higher. The customer pays more, you get more and Uber gets more.
> 
> If you know statistics, the wages that Uber pays is the same now as I got 1.4 years ago. That may not be as much as we should get, but it's ridiculous and unhelpful to argue about it hyperbolically on some unofficial Uber forum.
> 
> You do you, mate but the argument presented is just factually wrong.


Uber doesn't do anything for the drivers, I have no idea why you're spouting that line. Oh, "maths." Except hypothetical rides aren't the rides we're taking.

Drivers should apply the new formula to their last 20 ACTUAL rides like the other guy did and see that they're getting screwed. It may not be much, but they have to keep most drivers, so it's a slow bleed.

To take advantage of the new rates, drivers can now work only rush-hour, drive slow as hell and accept whatever the per minute is as their new hourly pay.


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## socallaoc (Dec 23, 2017)

got a p said:


> this is why people used to unionize. i'm not sure how you do that in the gig economy.


The same way all other businesses do: form an association.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Wow, there's a reason why some of you drive uber, your math skills are not up to par! First off, 1 genius who shall remain nameless is trying to compare percentages of different things i.e. if I get 88% more of this but 13% less of that, i come out 75% ahead. NO! Percentages don't work like that.

Second, in US markets where the per minute fee is low, you will be losing money on average. Site, in stand still traffic you'll come out ahead if you consider idling for 6 or 7 dollars an hour ahead! The mileage rate is usually by far the biggest component of your fare, the math will vary by market but this looks like a slight decrease you me.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

Irs looking like less than a 15% cut maybe 5-10% all said and done. Some trips are pretty much identical other long trips with highway miles and no traffic are definitely worse.


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## UBERgoober123 (Jul 12, 2018)

Its easy to organize a strike, just dont log in. Do something else for income. Everyone over here acting so helpless, take the power back, use lyft this week. 

If all the smart people leave uber will only have incompetent morons working for them which will eventually destroy the company.


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## stpetej (Jul 3, 2017)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


Is Uber ever going to realize that it will get what it pays for? Apparently not.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Wow, there's a reason why some of you drive uber, your math skills are not up to par! First off, 1 genius who shall remain nameless is trying to compare percentages of different things i.e. if I get 88% more of this but 13% less of that, i come out 75% ahead. NO! Percentages don't work like that.
> 
> Second, in US markets where the per minute fee is low, you will be losing money on average. Site, in stand still traffic you'll come out ahead if you consider idling for 6 or 7 dollars an hour ahead! The mileage rate is usually by far the biggest component of your fare, the math will vary by market but this looks like a slight decrease you me.


Gibberish. Pure and simple nonsense that only proves you didn't read a ****ing thing I said...


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## Kobayashi Maru (Jun 13, 2018)

socallaoc said:


> The same way all other businesses do: form an asso





UBERgoober123 said:


> Its easy to organize a strike, just dont log in. Do something else for income. Everyone over here acting so helpless, take the power back, use lyft this week.
> 
> If all the smart people leave uber will only have incompetent morons working for them which will eventually destroy the company.


Me thinks you're on a Rocky Mountain High UBERgoober123 ✔
Uber functions primary on moron power and is valued at ▪$162 billion ▪
If u strike their value will increase to▪ $178 billion▪

AT UBER:

up is down
Black is white
Left is right
Happy is sad
Profits are frowned upon
Loses are embraced


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Kobayashi Maru said:


> Me thinks you're on a Rocky Mountain High UBERgoober123 ✔
> Uber functions primary on moron power and is valued at ▪$162 billion ▪
> If u strike their value will increase to▪ $178 billion▪
> 
> ...


You realize that you have no actual data that you're working off of, right? Everything you said in that post is beyond useless and very likely not a model of reality in any way shape or form. If people are arguing with Uber like you are, of course they are ignoring you... they see reality, dealing with inept morons who can't form a coherent argument to, literally, save their livelihood.


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## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

I have years of observations. Where I started out with uber making gravy. And then steadily had to increase working hours to make the same money that I had been. Watching the quality of riders decline. While its understood that this is an ever changing gig, I've noticed that while my accepted requests have not diminished, my profits have not been able to keep up.
Ironically, this denotes that the denominator that is shifting most, is the rate of pay. Which is declining.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

I work the Seattle market and did not see this email.


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## albertphx (Jun 7, 2016)

Rushmanyyz said:


> Ok, you guys suck at data analysis - almost as much as you do in following rumors instead of facts, but that's a different conversation.
> 
> If this is true, it's in one market and it looks very much like a correction in order to make short fares with traffic more worth your time. Let me explain by use of a couple examples:
> 
> ...


Your so off base its not even funny. The OP stated he makes .71 cent per mile and .06 cent per minute time.
15% off of 71cents per mile is about .10 cents.....88 % increase of .06 per minute is about .05. (he did the math in his post) 
So in OP's market, he is gaining .05 in time increase but losing .10 cent in miles. An 50% DECREASE between the two.
In your example you are gaining .31 cent in time and while only losing .17 cents. About an 45% INCREASE. thats why you 
are making more in the example you gave. I caught that right away, and i suck at math.


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

Well, I took the data from 1 ride yesterday and crunched the numbers to see how this 'new' pay structure pans out.
I really hate it when *Uber outright lies to me then tries to con me* into believing they care about my time. If that were true, I'd be paid for that 20 minute McD Eats pickup - but I'm not. I'd be paid for that 12 mile pool pickup - but I'm not.

Uber caring about "our" time should not come at the expense of "our" distance. It's just another version of Peter robbing Paul to pay Mary. Guess who pockets the Driver's loss? Not the pax.


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## UBERgoober123 (Jul 12, 2018)

If you think uber didnt do the math on thousands of rides and find the average difference per ride and come out ahead by 5-10% you are being naive. That being said if you think uber is good at math and competent and they care about drivers, youre being naive. Just do whats best for you.

I did the math they pay me 9 cents a minute and 75 cents per mile.

Sometimes its not worth the hassle, sometimes it is. Last weekend i logged 25 rides this weeknd 0.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Rushmanyyz said:


> Gibberish. Pure and simple nonsense that only proves you didn't read a @@@@ing thing I said...


Actually, I read all of what you said and politely ignored it. you may have noticed that I talked about the US market. Assuming that your numbers are accurate, your rates are very different than ours therefore you arrive at a very different result.

If you are going to chime in and call everyone an idiot at least understand the problem first so you don't look like a fool. Uber will not be doing this any time soon in your market ****** because it would in fact benefit you if your numbers were accurate. try analysing with the op's numbers, we'll wait for your apology.


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## Bbonez (Aug 10, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> but just like casinos, they ultimately win.


And just like casinos they will file for bankruptcy protection shortly after IPO. The Riviera, SLS, Tropicana, Ceasar's just to name a few.


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## Mighty Mo (May 19, 2018)

Rushmanyyz said:


> Ok, you guys suck at data analysis - almost as much as you do in following rumors instead of facts, but that's a different conversation.
> 
> If this is true, it's in one market and it looks very much like a correction in order to make short fares with traffic more worth your time. Let me explain by use of a couple examples:
> 
> ...


Thank you! I thought exactly the same, how anyone get upset over a 73% increase to pay is beyond me!
Think bar scenes, big events, after you pick up the passenger and are stuck trying to get out.

Not sure how OP got to where they did, but they were dead wrong and more worrisome is how everyone just bit into it and ran with it.



Disgusted Driver said:


> Wow, there's a reason why some of you drive uber, your math skills are not up to par! First off, 1 genius who shall remain nameless is trying to compare percentages of different things i.e. if I get 88% more of this but 13% less of that, i come out 75% ahead. NO! Percentages don't work like that.
> 
> Second, in US markets where the per minute fee is low, you will be losing money on average. Site, in stand still traffic you'll come out ahead if you consider idling for 6 or 7 dollars an hour ahead! The mileage rate is usually by far the biggest component of your fare, the math will vary by market but this looks like a slight decrease you me.


Hahaha, genius here, it's the same thing, dollars, percentages of dollars.
The differing variables are the methods to make those dollars, time vs distance.
Work on your comprehension and scientific experimentation rules, and read a freaking book.

88% increase to DOLLARS VS 13% decrease to DOLLARS results in a 73% increase to DOLLARS when applied to TIME spent on the trip.

"Excessive times"!? That's where percentages play into, this is a discussion, IF and I'm not saying he did, if he ballooned the time to more easily show the change, it STILL applies to every minute of each of your rides, no matter the time long or short, something I think that is lost on most of you.

Rushmanyzz's got this figured right.


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## 125928 (Oct 5, 2017)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


I am with you on this. Here in Vegas, they dropped our mileage from 72 cents down to 60 cents and increase the time from 11 cents to 15 cents. I continued driving until the end of August when my business license expired. Not worth the headache.


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## Mighty Mo (May 19, 2018)

father of unicorns said:


> I am with you on this. Here in Vegas, they dropped our mileage from 72 cents down to 60 cents and increase the time from 11 cents to 15 cents. I continued driving until the end of August when my business license expired. Not worth the headache.


Maybe that change is unrelated then, because 13% decrease would have left you at closer to 63c per mile, and 88% increase at 21c per minute. Not the 60c & 15c change you state.

The change at hand is 13% or 3 cents decrease and 88% or 10c increase using your numbers. Which aligns proportionally to the variance at hand, 13% down, and 88% up.

How is this hard for everyone to comprehend?​


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Mighty Mo said:


> Thank you! I thought exactly the same, how anyone get upset over a 73% increase to pay is beyond me!
> Think bar scenes, big events, after you pick up the passenger and are stuck trying to get out.
> 
> Not sure how OP got to where they did, but they were dead wrong and more worrisome is how everyone just bit into it and ran with it.
> ...


 You are a moron, it's that simple. Lets play a simple game of what if:
I used to get .10 a minute, now I get 100% more or .20 a minute. 
I used to get 1.00 a mile now I get 25% less or. 75 a mile. 
If I drive 1 mile every 2 minutes, i used to get 1.20, now I get 1.15. So even though its plus 100% and minus 25% I still get less money. Bottom line, uber relies on idiots who don't understand math.


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

I'm just driving slower. Noticed a lot less puckering too. No reason to hurry.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Mighty Mo said:


> Thank you! I thought exactly the same, how anyone get upset over a 73% increase to pay is beyond me!
> Think bar scenes, big events, after you pick up the passenger and are stuck trying to get out.
> 
> Not sure how OP got to where they did, but they were dead wrong and more worrisome is how everyone just bit into it and ran with it.
> ...


That's not quite right but you're on track. The amendment that I'd make to


Mighty Mo said:


> Thank you! I thought exactly the same, how anyone get upset over a 73% increase to pay is beyond me!
> Think bar scenes, big events, after you pick up the passenger and are stuck trying to get out.
> 
> Not sure how OP got to where they did, but they were dead wrong and more worrisome is how everyone just bit into it and ran with it.
> ...


Ok, this is more correct, Mo but there's a small fallacy involved. It's not going to be a 73% increase because time is still a fraction of what the milage is.

Lets play ball with some of these folks rebuttals and take a market with lower figures, ignoring the exchange rate, so that no one has to do the maths:

Lets go with the guy above and use $1.00/ mile and .10 c/ minute. If we assume an average fare, lets say 5 miles and 10 minutes, we'll expect ( 5×1 )= $5 + ( .1 × 10 )= $1 or $6 total.

If we drop the milage fee by 25% and raise the per minute fee by 100% ( as proposed) we'll get the rates he posited of .75 c/ mile and .20/ minute. Let's plug the numbers in. (.75 × 5) = $3.75 + (.2 × 10) = $2 or $5.75 total. That's a loss of 4%.

That's not the entire story though. Lets create a hypothesis: The changes made reflect a correction due to increased traffic in that market.

Lets set up a scenario where traffic might affect the ride. We'll assume the same distance as above but add a couple of minutes of time, to reflect traffic. Lets say, instead of 10 minutes, those 5 miles takes us 15. That's now (.75 × 5) = $3.75 + (.2 × 15) = $3 or $6.75 total. Assuming the original, (1 ×5) =$5 + (.1 × 15) = $1.5 or $6.50 total. That's an increase of 4%.

Now, there are more factors to consider, like trying to incentivize drivers to stop complaining about wait time or all manner of things.

You'll likely break even on the straight fare calculations in this hypothetical model market but you'll make up a bit of that 4% again on the doubled wait fee. Any multiple stop trip will also be better compensated.

Now, if we look at the average per hour, lets see what we get? Lets assume we can get three trips in in an hour (that's average for me) we'll use my averages because I'm not going to research anyone elses market for more accuracy, you whiners can do that your damn self. So, lets assume I can get three 10 minute trips in an hour and the total distance is say, 17 miles. That'd give me an average of (.75 × 17) = 12.75 + 6 = $ 18.75/ hour sales or $14.06/ hour less tips. Now, my conversions are off for average times because I seem to have a higher personal average, after conversions (19.6) but lets run with this for the sake of argument. Lets also ignore tips because, though I know you guys get tips, they are irrelevant to this argument.

If we change the figures to the old numbers, we get (1×17) = 17 + (.1×30) = 3 or $20 × .75 = $15/ hour excluding extra amounts gathered from wait fees etc. That's a drop of about 6%. Assuming a standard deviation for the average, of 4% (likely generous) I think we're pretty close to saying, after all factors are included, that we'll see just about the same fees, less 2% by some really hasty maths. If you, literally took 1 minute longer on your trips, you'd swing that back to parity or benefit.

I don't think the outrage over this change in price is justified any way you cut it and that's immaterial to whether you think the wage is worth it, after taxes/ wear and tear.

Maths is maths. Sorry, but this issue is dead. There's no significant change to warrent the OPs outrage.


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## Kobayashi Maru (Jun 13, 2018)

This is Khosrowshahi way of slowing down the current uber driver’s speed in preparation for the addition of Waymo self driving cars on the roads.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> You are a moron, it's that simple. Lets play a simple game of what if:
> I used to get .10 a minute, now I get 100% more or .20 a minute.
> I used to get 1.00 a mile now I get 25% less or. 75 a mile.
> If I drive 1 mile every 2 minutes, i used to get 1.20, now I get 1.15. So even though its plus 100% and minus 25% I still get less money. Bottom line, uber relies on idiots who don't understand math.


A more ironic point was never made...


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## Karl Marx (May 17, 2016)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


I went through two pay decreases several YEARS ago and I didn't need to do the math. Uber is a predatory company destroying drivers lives. Neoliberalism is a failure.


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## Courtney M (Sep 19, 2018)

Cableguynoe said:


> You'll have the app reinstalled before the end of the week.


Has this pay cut started in Nashville?

I can't tell


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Karl Marx said:


> I went through two pay decreases several YEARS ago and I didn't need to do the math. Uber is a predatory company destroying drivers lives. Neoliberalism is a failure.


What a ****ing idiot...


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## Duber12 (Dec 18, 2015)

osii said:


> I'm just driving slower. Noticed a lot less puckering too. No reason to hurry.


Life in the slow lane...


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## Karl Marx (May 17, 2016)

Rushmanyyz said:


> What a @@@@ing idiot...


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> !


I think you are failing to see this through Uber's point of view.

Decreasing the amount being paid out to partners will increase Uber's profits and make the new issue look more inviting next year when the IPO is offered. If you think outside the box, and really assess what's better for Uber- instead of just yourself- you might have a different response.


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## UBERgoober123 (Jul 12, 2018)

Mighty Mo said:


> Thank you! I thought exactly the same, how anyone get upset over a 73% increase to pay is beyond me!
> Think bar scenes, big events, after you pick up the passenger and are stuck trying to get out.
> 
> Not sure how OP got to where they did, but they were dead wrong and more worrisome is how everyone just bit into it and ran with it.
> ...


Hahaha dollars we are t as lking pennies, not dollars, we are takling 90%of your pay was reduced by 25% and 10% of your pay was increased by 90%.

Yes you are getting screwed. Its a math thing snd the maths dont lie uber does.


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## ROTA (Jun 23, 2017)

What is IPO?


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## Karl Marx (May 17, 2016)

UBERgoober123 said:


> Hahaha dollars we are t as lking pennies, not dollars, we are takling 90%of your pay was reduced by 25% and 10% of your pay was increased by 90%.
> 
> Yes you are getting screwed. Its a math thing snd the maths dont lie uber does.


The other thing is that whomever fined tuned the app, the fact that it is a learning machine, means that it knows how many people in the potential population are willing to work for even a couple of dollars and hour. Feudal digital AI neoliberalism has landed with a thud, not just in your city or region but now around the world independently. This is now AI decision driven capitalism making its own software edits independent of any qualitative rational. Humans are machines only.



ROTA said:


> What is IPO?


You built value into the Uber app by working the software commands given to you. You built the value and the brand and you are entitled to not reap the rewards. Its' called predatory digital capitalism.


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

toyotarola said:


> ...Drivers should apply the new formula to their last 20 ACTUAL rides like the other guy did and see that they're getting screwed. It may not be much, but they have to keep most drivers, so it's a slow bleed...


It's going to be different for every market/driver when you calculate using the local rates and using each driver's specific driving habits. 
If the current rates in the Charlotte market were to experience the same increases/decreases, my pay would have experienced the following.
Last 20 rides = 7.2% increase
Last 25 rides = 7.4% increase
Last 30 rides = 8.1% increase


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## Castaneda7189 (Apr 14, 2017)

Scott.Sul said:


> It's going to be different for every market/driver when you calculate using the local rates and using each driver's specific driving habits.
> If the current rates in the Charlotte market were to experience the same increases/decreases, my pay would have experienced the following.
> Last 20 rides = 7.2% increase
> Last 25 rides = 7.4% increase
> Last 30 rides = 8.1% increase


Charlotte is usually pretty congested. Here in Raleigh there are times that you can still avoid traffic and ride out a 19mi airport ride in 19min which gives a decent payout per hour. Do you see the increase because you drive during higher than normal for traffic areas? I'm curious, I've just driven through Charlotte but never done any rideshare there.


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

So, if I connect the dots here, what's being implied, markets like Chicago that's taking a hit is basically subsidizing other markets that see an increase? No net gain to Uber?


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Karl Marx said:


> The other thing is that whomever fined tuned the app, the fact that it is a learning machine, means that it knows how many people in the potential population are willing to work for even a couple of dollars and hour. Feudal digital AI neoliberalism has landed with a thud, not just in your city or region but now around the world independently. This is now AI decision driven capitalism making its own software edits independent of any qualitative rational. Humans are machines only.
> 
> You built value into the Uber app by working the software commands given to you. You built the value and the brand and you are entitled to not reap the rewards. Its' called predatory digital capitalism.


I know that you think you're clever and smart but you're not. There's no connection to "neoliberalism" (a conservative talking point) and either Marx or Uber's nature as a predatory capitalist. All the bullshit that you're espousing amounts to blaming ideologies that you fail miserably to both study and understand. Absolutely no one of consequence will ever listen to you - maybe the other morons that can't even follow simple maths. You all can have a fun circle jerk but your ideas will remain hidden as trite blemishes in the saddest corners of internet obscurity.



Zap said:


> So, if I connect the dots here, what's being implied, markets like Chicago that's taking a hit is basically subsidizing other markets that see an increase? No net gain to Uber?


That's no different to any corporation, anywhere, ever.



UBERgoober123 said:


> Hahaha dollars we are t as lking pennies, not dollars, we are takling 90%of your pay was reduced by 25% and 10% of your pay was increased by 90%.
> 
> Yes you are getting screwed. Its a math thing snd the maths dont lie uber does.


If you make this point, then do the maths properly <.<

Time is far more than 10% of the algorithm. If you read what I already posted, you'll see that I accounted not only for travel time but for the average hourly rate. It's not exact but it's far more accurate than your "10%".

Can no one here do maths? Seriously...


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

IRS says it costs drivers $0.545/mile... Old Chicago rate was $0.75/mile That nets the driver $0.21/mile (rounded up)
The "new" Chicago rate is $0.61 (rounded up)/mile... That now nets the driver $0.07/mile
Basic math shows it's a 66.66666666666666% reduction in take-home/mile - after "costs".


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

I_Like_Spam said:


> I think you are failing to see this through Uber's point of view.
> 
> Decreasing the amount being paid out to partners will increase Uber's profits and make the new issue look more inviting next year when the IPO is offered. If you think outside the box, and really assess what's better for Uber- instead of just yourself- you might have a different response.


Oh my god. This is even more absurd. Not only do you fail at the data analysis (as I've showed several times now) but you link this with an absurd idea that the riders will pay the same but it's only the drivers that will make less.

Now, if you guys want to believe bizarre fairytales about Uber, have at it. However, if you want to effectively address it, do the damn maths. Argue honestly - hell you might even convince me but I absolutely will not abide by conspiratorial nonsense with no basis in fact.

I do not see this as a problem and my market is 100% transparent. That may be because we have better transparency laws but I'm not sure. I just know that, objectively, your argument fails at every point because you fail to even get the basic maths correct.



Zap said:


> IRS says it costs drivers $0.545/mile... Old Chicago rate was $0.75/mile That nets the driver $0.21/mile (rounded up)
> The "new" Chicago rate is $0.61 (rounded up)/mile... That now nets the driver $0.07/mile
> Basic math shows it's a 66.66666666666666% reduction in take-home/mile - after "costs".


That literally makes no sense. Your argument assumes that cars teleport and that the time portion of the algorithm is irrelevant. This may work to stoke your righteous indignation but it won't be persuasive to anyone who knows how to do maths. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones or, as it were, do "basic maths".


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## UberCheese (Sep 3, 2017)

Driving for Uber is like sitting on a *****.

You only have yourself to blame


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## Pedro Paramo66 (Jan 17, 2018)

Karl Marx said:


> I went through two pay decreases several YEARS ago and I didn't need to do the math. Uber is a predatory company destroying drivers lives. Neoliberalism is a failure.


Indeed the life of Uber drivers is worthless, but also we are helping Uber to shred the taxi industry


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## Roadmasta (Aug 4, 2017)

Every market is different but they keep signing new drivers. I'm down to a few hours Saturday night. This is a part time gig at best in my neck of the woods.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

I really should just let you guys get angry at nothing and quit. I'd actually have more premium trips with less drivers out there...

In fact, yes. Sorry guys. I don't know how to do maths after all. I made up everything to seem like a liberal elitist snob (Hail my communist brothers)!

Please go back to your brilliant comments about how this is a terrible pay cut. Wrile eachother up and quit ridesharing in some epicly public way. I believe in you!


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

Rushmanyyz said:


> ... That literally makes no sense. Your argument assumes that cars teleport and that the time portion of the algorithm is irrelevant. This may work to stoke your righteous indignation but it won't be persuasive to anyone who knows how to do maths. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones or, as it were, do "basic maths".


I didn't think it would make sense to you considering you don't deal with the IRS as we do on this side of the pond. But to your point, keep focus on mileage, not time & I think you'll get it. Mileage is our "meat & potatoes", time is only icing on the cake. We're taxed by mile, not by minute.
Oh, & btw, on this side of the pond, math is singular - not plural.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

touberornottouber said:


> In theory taking away from mileage pay and increasing per minute pay could be very helpful for high traffic areas and times. But it appears they calculated this so that it results in a net pay cut according to what most are saying (I haven't done the math yet myself). I guess we should have learned by now not to expect any better from the company? It seems like they are doing whatever they can to be profitable for the IPO....at our expense.
> 
> Nothing yet in my market Central Atlantic Florida. Hopefully it's not coqtyming here.


In Fl they increased per mile and minute rate in every market but kept drivers pay the same. It used to be 1.15 / .15 now its 1.30 /20 .. it equates to a 35% 65% split.

Miami market went up from .90 mile to 1.10.


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## Pedro Paramo66 (Jan 17, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> In Fl they increased per mile and minute rate in every market but kept drivers pay the same. It used to be 1.15 / .15 now its 1.30 /20 .. it equates to a 35% 65% split.
> 
> Miami market went up from .90 mile to 1.10.


Just remember, this is not about money, the important thing is that you are your own boss "Independent Contractor", you decide when to drive, you are meeting very excited and interested people, you are participating in Travis State of the art disruptive technology and you are making money aside in 16 hours daily of your spare time
don't forget to have a real income in order to subsidice cheap fares to all this wonderful pax
Lol


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> In Fl they increased per mile and minute rate in every market but kept drivers pay the same. It used to be 1.15 / .15 now its 1.30 /20 .. it equates to a 35% 65% split.
> 
> Miami market went up from .90 mile to 1.10.


Good for you guys! Season is about to hit & you'll be rolling in the doe. Make sure you save for the lean summer months ahead. Be prepared for the surge multiplier to be replaced with the flat $ surge. Ya just know uber will drop that turd on you guys down there when season ramps up.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

got a p said:


> I agree we just got a 25% cut which coupled with the increase on pay per minute is about a 10-15% pay cut. *driving Lyft from now on*.


Good luck with that.
Lyft matched the rate cut about 3 weeks after Uber did it in our market.
They'll do the same in yours - probably even faster now.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Zap said:


> I didn't think it would make sense to you considering you don't deal with the IRS as we do on this side of the pond. But to your point, keep focus on mileage, not time & I think you'll get it. Mileage is our "meat & potatoes", time is only icing on the cake. We're taxed by mile, not by minute.
> Oh, & btw, on this side of the pond, math is singular - not plural.


Lol ****ing genius.

First off, I'm an American and one of my degrees is from California.

If the time calculation is to be ignored, then, as I said, your model has teleporting cars.

Now, as for maths...

The term is mathematics. This is an English word that is derived from Latin and Germanic roots with all sorts of other things combined but the shortening of mathematics, in the current UK vernacular, is "maths". I grew up in the US where, among many other words, mathematics was shortened to "math". That's a cultural and political choice with some interesting folklore but you made a point that math is singular and that's more germane to what I want to push back on.

Math is not singular, it is shortened, as maths is not a monolyth. There may be some varacity to why colonial Americans decided to drop the S, as it, intellectually, focuses the verb a bit more on a direct object but it isn't correct. Mathematics has many forms and types, more accurately encompassed by a pluralization of the shortened term "maths". Perhaps that's why the English decided on that as a shortened form?

At any rate, Australians use a mix of British vernacular and some of their own and have adopted various pop culture changes from places like the US over time as well. In this convention, of shortening mathematics, they went with their colonial roots and stuck with "maths". As any evolutionary principle would predict, the, rather large, pond between the US, and Australia is likely to blame for the lack of cultural assimilation.

But holy ****, man. Way to get it wrong and then sling some trite and ignorant American wank! It was funny to see the tired American trope of trying to make smarter people look more stupid though.

Travel a bit. It'll make you smarter or at least less of an ignorant, condescending, prick.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Zap said:


> Good for you guys! Season is about to hit & you'll be rolling in the doe. Make sure you save for the lean summer months ahead. Be prepared for the surge multiplier to be replaced with the flat $ surge. Ya just know uber will drop that turd on you guys down there when season ramps up.


I think you missed where I said they kept our pay the same.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Zap said:


> I didn't think it would make sense to you considering you don't deal with the IRS as we do on this side of the pond. But to your point, keep focus on mileage, not time & I think you'll get it. Mileage is our "meat & potatoes", time is only icing on the cake. We're taxed by mile, not by minute.
> Oh, & btw, on this side of the pond, math is singular - not plural.


Oh and Australia has the ATO. Really? You wanted to make yourself seem special for having a federal tax office? Newsflash, every country (that has taxes) has a tax office. That was pretty facepalmy.



Boca Ratman said:


> I think you missed where I said they kept our pay the same.


I think I figured it out. They just don't use base 10 maths, they use base ******* maths.


----------



## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> I think you missed where I said they kept our pay the same.


Yep... I missed it.



Rushmanyyz said:


> ... Travel a bit. It'll make you smarter or at least less of an ignorant, condescending, prick.


Been there, done that, got the T-shirts & coffee mugs. Clearly the change is welcomed by you & thus you're a minority which leaves me to conclude you're either an Uber corporate shill or a big recipient of the subsidized revenue taken from one market and infused into your market. Nonetheless, we agree to disagree. Best of luck to you down there & dude, get a grip on your anger management issues.


----------



## To Mega Therion (Apr 21, 2018)

FWIW, most liberals are against "neoliberalism"; look it up, it has more to do with conservative economic ideas.


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## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

Boca Ratman said:


> In Fl they increased per mile and minute rate in every market but kept drivers pay the same. It used to be 1.15 / .15 now its 1.30 /20 .. it equates to a 35% 65% split.
> 
> Miami market went up from .90 mile to 1.10.


I remember that. Now as a result I take a lot more people to get rental cars because they do not want to pay the extra $20-$40 Uber is now charging on common long trips here. It sucks. Especially since they kept all the extra money.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Rushmanyyz said:


> Ok, you guys suck at data analysis - almost as much as you do in following rumors instead of facts, but that's a different conversation.
> 
> If this is true, it's in one market and it looks very much like a correction in order to make short fares with traffic more worth your time. Let me explain by use of a couple examples:
> 
> ...


in chicago we were getting .16 per minute and .75 per mile. They are now giving us .21 per minute and .60 per mile. So they gave us .05 per min raise 33% but lowered the miles by .15 or 20% so now longer trips that were really the bread and butter for full time drivers end up paying less unless there's a lot of traffic. I for one am not very happy about having to rent myself and my vehicle out for $13.50 per hour. I like the job and can make a living though...


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

UberCheese said:


> Driving for Uber is like sitting on a *****.
> 
> You only have yourself to blame


ROFFLMFAO! And that's all, folks! Another awesome week of rideshare comes to a close!


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## Hans GrUber (Apr 23, 2016)

I hate this ****ing company.


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## Yam Digger (Sep 12, 2016)

We haven't gotten anything like that&#8230;yet, in Toronto; but I wouldn't be surprised if they do it. Toronto is actually one of Uber's better markets; and even then it seems like hobby driving now. It's not even a gig anymore. I'm already significantly cutting back on my own Uber driving; but if they do this, that's it. I'm so done.



Hans GrUber said:


> I hate this @@@@ing company.


I hear ya, Bro.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Zap said:


> Yep... I missed it.
> 
> Been there, done that, got the T-shirts & coffee mugs. Clearly the change is welcomed by you & thus you're a minority which leaves me to conclude you're either an Uber corporate shill or a big recipient of the subsidized revenue taken from one market and infused into your market. Nonetheless, we agree to disagree. Best of luck to you down there & dude, get a grip on your anger management issues.


My god, another idiot that thinks only a shill would disagree with them when they, clearly, can't do a simple maths problem. You're like a textbook on how to generate fallacious arguments...


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

I crunched some more numbers and took data from 4 random rides. I'm not going to fractionalize pennies so it's rounded up. This is how it worked out... No hypothetical con.... just hard facts backed by the data. Formulate your own conclusions.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

To Mega Therion said:


> FWIW, most liberals are against "neoliberalism"; look it up, it has more to do with conservative economic ideas.


"Neoliberalism" isn't even a thing. It's a Fox News buzzword. Literally no one identifies as a neoliberal.



Zap said:


> I crunched some more numbers and took data from 4 random rides. I'm not going to fractionalize pennies so it's rounded up. This is how it worked out... No hypothetical con.... just hard facts backed by the data. Formulate your own conclusions.
> 
> View attachment 268317


Lmfao. Well, that proves right there that you suck at data analysis. You cherry picked four rides from one, biased, driver. Yep, legit methodology...


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## UBERgoober123 (Jul 12, 2018)

Dont even argue with this guy. The thing about uber pay is its purposefully misleading at best. At worst its downright decietful and possibly criminal. My app says i make 12 cents a minute i do the math i mske 9 cents per minute. Google online it says 25% its not its 9 cents as minute. The pay change is not a raise, you couldve increased time rates by any amount and left the mileage alone but you wanted to make a pay cut and argue about it. Like everyone is stupid. The uber way no lube then tell you your enjoying it. Enjoy your paycut idiots.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

UBERgoober123 said:


> Dont even argue with this guy. The thing about uber pay is its purposefully misleading at best. At worst its downright decietful and possibly criminal. My app says i make 12 cents a minute i do the math i mske 9 cents per minute. Google online it says 25% its not its 9 cents as minute. The pay change is not a raise, you couldve increased time rates by any amount and left the mileage alone but you wanted to make a pay cut and argue about it. Like everyone is stupid. The uber way no lube then tell you your enjoying it. Enjoy your paycut idiots.


**** me...

Do the god dammed math and shut up! I laid it all out there, critique it all you like, but stop with the ridiculous non sequitur bullshit.

Everything I've said is factual. I've even exercised a pretty hefty principle of charity. If you don't like Uber, fine. Far be it from me to persuade your dumb ass to keep doing something you don't want to do but swinging around accusations and implications of criminality is hardly something I think you are going to be able to back up, given your level of abject incredulity.

As for me personally, ignore me. I'm here to argue honestly and I despise those that argue dishonestly. Don't like it? Tough. Argue better. If you make a point, I'll be the first to admit you showed me to be in error but stop with the obfuscation. Not one did you or anyone else actually do the maths properly and you won't because you can't and you are worried that your bullshit little diatribe will collapse like a house of cards.

It never ceases to amaze me that, when people are called out for their obvious lack of an education that they fire back with insinuations about how the educated one doesn't know anything. So, big boy, put up or shut up time.


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## To Mega Therion (Apr 21, 2018)

It's not a self-identification, it's an economic philosophy. (Why am I discussing politics on an Uber board? Might as well write about existentialism on BurgerKingTeam.org.)


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## ubergrind (May 23, 2017)

Zap said:


> I crunched some more numbers and took data from 4 random rides. I'm not going to fractionalize pennies so it's rounded up. This is how it worked out... No hypothetical con.... just hard facts backed by the data. Formulate your own conclusions.
> 
> View attachment 268317


I'll Chime in here... based out of Denver. I am a part time driver and 80 % of my rides are airport rides. Our airport is roughly 25 miles from the city, and 30 miles depending on which route you take. For how I drive, and for what I do full time, short rides are not worth my time. My greatest asset is my time, and I consider every ride in terms of opportunity cost. I know the probability I am likely to get a rematch based off of historical data on a given day/time. Highway trips are far more efficient for my vehicle and they reduce wear and tear, especially on an older car.

My numbers look similar to Zap and this is roughly a $ 3-5 dollar decrease in my business per trip. The per minute increase in pay at the expense of mileage is nothing but a fare decrease in this market. I ran one of my worst trips from last month in which I picked up a rematch from the airport and took my passenger roughly 35 miles in traffic @ approximately 75 minutes. I would lose roughly $ 8.00 USD on that trip if it's calculated at today's rates.

That particular trip is a statistical outlier for my business, but it does serve to show me that Uber has not fairly compensated me for my time, since I am essentially losing $ 8.00. These new rates only serve to reinforce what I already know for my market, that I will not work in rush hour without a surge, and I will not answer rematches during high periods of traffic (I rarely do this anyway, but I gambled without first checking traffic before answering the rematch) since I am able to take my work with me and wait until traffic dies down. My time is worth more than what the going rate for Uber in the Denver market so therefore this re-balancing of rates does not help me for how I prefer to drive.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

ubergrind said:


> I'll Chime in here... based out of Denver. I am a part time driver and 80 % of my rides are airport rides. Our airport is roughly 25 miles from the city, and 30 miles depending on which route you take. For how I drive, and for what I do full time, short rides are not worth my time. My greatest asset is my time, and I consider every ride in terms of opportunity cost. I know the probability I am likely to get a rematch based off of historical data on a given day/time. Highway trips are far more efficient for my vehicle and they reduce wear and tear, especially on an older car.
> 
> My numbers look similar to Zap and this is roughly a $ 3-5 dollar decrease in my business per trip. The per minute increase in pay at the expense of mileage is nothing but a fare decrease in this market. I ran one of my worst trips from last month in which I picked up a rematch from the airport and took my passenger roughly 35 miles in traffic @ approximately 75 minutes. I would lose roughly $ 8.00 USD on that trip if it's calculated at today's rates.
> 
> That particular trip is a statistical outlier for my business, but it does serve to show me that Uber has not fairly compensated me for my time, since I am essentially losing $ 8.00. These new rates only serve to reinforce what I already know for my market, that I will not work in rush hour without a surge, and I will not answer rematches during high periods of traffic (I rarely do this anyway, but I gambled without first checking traffic before answering the rematch) since I am able to take my work with me and wait until traffic dies down. My time is worth more than what the going rate for Uber in the Denver market so therefore this re-balancing of rates does not help me for how I prefer to drive.


The proposed changes would, literally make you more money, especially in traffic.

For all the talk about having done the maths, why the hell isn't anyone breaking it down like I did or trying to address flaws in my methodology?

It's not a statistical rate decrease. It's the same or better, meant to be better for wait times and traffic. I have no opinion on whether the result is worth your time or whether the change is justified. I just hate the disingenuous bullshit that I'm seeing here.



To Mega Therion said:


> It's not a self-identification, it's an economic philosophy. (Why am I discussing politics on an Uber board? Might as well write about existentialism on BurgerKingTeam.org.)


That was actually my point...

That said, I have a philosophy BA. Feel free to bring it.


----------



## UBERgoober123 (Jul 12, 2018)

Rushmanyyz said:


> The proposed changes would, literally make you more money, especially in traffic.
> 
> For all the talk about having done the maths, why the hell isn't anyone breaking it down like I did or trying to address flaws in my methodology?
> 
> ...


Dude you have too much time on your hands. The last guy just broke it down he loses $8 per trip. Just bc you ignore something doesnt mean you win. It means you should just stop. The airport in denver is 20 miles highway with no traffic. Dudes going 65 the whole way. He loses $8 per trip. Omg read.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

UBERgoober123 said:


> Dude you have too much time on your hands. The last guy just broke it down he loses $8 per trip. Just bc you ignore something doesnt mean you win. It means you should just stop. The airport in denver is 20 miles highway with no traffic. Dudes going 65 the whole way. He loses $8 per trip. Omg read.


He lost 8 dollars on a trip that he didn't explain in any detailed way. I don't believe people by fiat.

Do the ****ing maths or shut up already...



UBERgoober123 said:


> Dude you have too much time on your hands. The last guy just broke it down he loses $8 per trip. Just bc you ignore something doesnt mean you win. It means you should just stop. The airport in denver is 20 miles highway with no traffic. Dudes going 65 the whole way. He loses $8 per trip. Omg read.


You're right though. I've given too much time to this thread.

Yep, you are right. Uber sucks. I'm quitting now. Yep, you should quit too. You should also believe this by fiat.


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## Ubereater (Dec 25, 2015)

^hey mate, before you go...do you know how to measure septic tank floating scum thikness ?...I suck at mathS


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## osii (Aug 21, 2014)

old rates $.76/mi $.072/min
new rates $.648/mi $.136/min

average speed 30mph

old rate $.904/mile
new rate $.92/mile

I think it's about a 1.2% raise


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## UBERgoober123 (Jul 12, 2018)

So i think we can all agree there are some varibles, one being time one distance. The faster you go the less money you make so basically if you travel faster than 30mph you are losing money. 

So by all the maths done hours waisted the number will vary but its between -10% cut and 1% gain. 

Thats what was said repeatedly. Then some guy screaming "you suck do the maths repeatedly" 

Thats uber in a nutshell.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

osii said:


> old rates $.76/mi $.072/min
> new rates $.648/mi $.136/min
> 
> average speed 30mph
> ...


This is closer to an honest response. Actual drives will reflect increased wait times and stops at lights. Averages are very rout dependent and are almost never the same. Working in a standard deviation would help but you'd be doing a lot more work than necessary to justify working about 10 minutes less or longer.

The reality is that you're going to make the same.

It's a bit more likely that people, who can't do maths, are arguing poorly than it is that Uber is trying to scam everyone out of 2%. It's not like Uber drivers are secret geniuses.



UBERgoober123 said:


> So i think we can all agree there are some varibles, one being time one distance. The faster you go the less money you make so basically if you travel faster than 30mph you are losing money.
> 
> So by all the maths done hours waisted the number will vary but its between -10% cut and 1% gain.
> 
> ...


Umm... no...

-10% - 1%? There's that ******* maths again.

I crunched like 4 hypothetical trips that you bags of hammers came up with. I used your parameters and walked you through every calculation. Yet, you still just make shit up.

Holy crap, this is like a flat earth debate.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

Rushmanyyz said:


> The proposed changes would, literally make you more money, especially in traffic.
> 
> For all the talk about having done the maths, why the hell isn't anyone breaking it down like I did or trying to address flaws in my methodology?
> 
> ...


I'm a little hesitant to debate a millennial with a BS in philosophy but no just no...the rates have indeed dropped the math is simple. Unless you are in perpetual traffic gridlock which is not how you do this hustle.
Did you really need to say "literally"? You realize that's what millennials say every time they spew false information.


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## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

got a p said:


> I'm a little hesitant to debate a millennial with a BS in philosophy but no just no...the rates have indeed dropped the math is simple. Unless you are in perpetual traffic gridlock which is not how you do this hustle.
> Did you really need to say "literally"? You realize that's what millennials say every time they spew false information.


Kinda takes all the point out of the original focus of this post, which was generalized observations of fellow drivers who have done the routes before, saw a before, and see a current, and realize that the second number is lower than the first, doesn't it?
Reality has uncontrolled factors that can not be accounted for via math. Because unless you work for bloody NASA or you're a chess master, you're not seeing that far ahead.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

10x+20y where x=.85 and y=.1 vs x=.62 and y=.19 i don't work for nasa but I'm pretty sure example 1 is higher where average mph is 30. It gets worse as average mph goes up.
Then again I'm not a chess master what do i know..


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## merryon2nd (Aug 31, 2016)

got a p said:


> 10x+20y where x=.85 and y=.1 vs x=.62 and y=.19 i don't work for nasa but I'm pretty sure example 1 is higher where average mph is 30. It gets worse as average mph goes up.
> Then again I'm not a chess master what do i know..


NO ONE here is denying the fact that you'll make more while driving in the city, when the ride originates in the city. BUT MANY are denying the fact that variables are not always set, and some things are constantly changing. And those variables that can not be accounted for will make income from a ride decrease or increase in accordance. MPH are not the only variables that change during the course of a ride. Just like driving a consistent speed does not always mean that your car is making the same MPG every time you make that same run.


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## UBERgoober123 (Jul 12, 2018)

Ok so several real life drivers came on here and did the simple math, before and current of dozens of real trips and found the current number generally lower. Uber comes on here and we are all "literally" stupid drivers who suck at maths.

This is 8th grade math btw. An 8th grader could easily do the maths.

We use averages
It cost 54 cents per mile to operate a vehicle, according to the IRS.

If we make 64 cents per mile we have to drive 10 miles to make $1 profit. Thats pretty far.

I guess people were logging off during rush hours me included, but thats what happens when you make $6 an hour. They need to incentivize driver to sit in rush hour and get terrible mpg. But not at the expense of distance bc thats why drivers work hard.

And yes i went to college apparently im over qualified for a stupid driver position.


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## To Mega Therion (Apr 21, 2018)

I ran some recent rides with the numbers. I drive days at 7:00 - 3:00 in SoCal. The amount of traffic here would result in a small raise. Night long hauls might result in a decrease in pay.

*OLD*
26.21mls x $.7575 = $19.85
60.14mins x $.1125 = $6.77
total = $26.62

*NEW*
26.21mls x $.6715 = $17.60 (-$2.25)
60.14mins x $.2138 = $12.86 (+$6.09)
total = $30.46 *(+$3.84)*

------------------

*OLD*
8.82mls x $.7575 = $6.68
17.39mins x $.1125 = $1.96
total = $8.70

*NEW*
8.82mls x $.6715 = $5.92 (-$0.76)
17.39mins x $.2138 = $3.72 (+$1.76)
total = $9.64 *(+$0.94)*

------------------

*OLD*
3.68mls x $.7575 = $2.79
10.85mins x $.1125 = $1.22
total = $4.01

*NEW*
3.68mls x $.6715 = $2.47 (-$0.32)
10.85mins x $.2138 = $2.32 (+$1.10)
total = $4.79 *(+$0.78)*


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

UBERgoober123 said:


> Ok so several real life drivers came on here and did the simple math, before and current of dozens of real trips and found the current number generally lower. Uber comes on here and we are all "literally" stupid drivers who suck at maths.
> 
> This is 8th grade math btw. An 8th grader could easily do the maths.


I've been teaching my 7 year old son algebra. So i beg to differ a 2nd grader could do this math.
Ps. If you drive los Angeles during the worst hours ( i drove that market before) you will see a few more pennies. Los Angeles has THE WORST traffic in America though so not a great example. Especially using LA rush hour rides. But yes that market did come to mind as one of the very few outliers that will make a tiny bit more if you are a driver who doesn't drive the profitable hours.
They also only took a 10% cut on miles we took a 29% cut here i believe.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

To Mega Therion said:


> I ran some recent rides with the numbers. I drive days at 7:00 - 3:00 in SoCal. The amount of traffic here would result in a small raise. Night long hauls might result in a decrease in pay.
> 
> *OLD*
> 26.21mls x $.7575 = $19.85
> ...


For drivers that have more time than miles, definitely an improvement . its not much of an improvement for those that do long hauls to the airport with minimal traffic. This might help during the surge bar closing as you wait to break free.


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## RushmanzanNPC (Oct 22, 2018)

ubergrind said:


> I'll Chime in here... based out of Denver. I am a part time driver and 80 % of my rides are airport rides. Our airport is roughly 25 miles from the city, and 30 miles depending on which route you take. For how I drive, and for what I do full time, short rides are not worth my time. My greatest asset is my time, and I consider every ride in terms of opportunity cost. I know the probability I am likely to get a rematch based off of historical data on a given day/time. Highway trips are far more efficient for my vehicle and they reduce wear and tear, especially on an older car.
> 
> My numbers look similar to Zap and this is roughly a $ 3-5 dollar decrease in my business per trip. The per minute increase in pay at the expense of mileage is nothing but a fare decrease in this market. I ran one of my worst trips from last month in which I picked up a rematch from the airport and took my passenger roughly 35 miles in traffic @ approximately 75 minutes. I would lose roughly $ 8.00 USD on that trip if it's calculated at today's rates.
> 
> That particular trip is a statistical outlier for my business, but it does serve to show me that Uber has not fairly compensated me for my time, since I am essentially losing $ 8.00. These new rates only serve to reinforce what I already know for my market, that I will not work in rush hour without a surge, and I will not answer rematches during high periods of traffic (I rarely do this anyway, but I gambled without first checking traffic before answering the rematch) since I am able to take my work with me and wait until traffic dies down. My time is worth more than what the going rate for Uber in the Denver market so therefore this re-balancing of rates does not help me for how I prefer to drive.


Absolutely spot on here Colorado! 
I work Boulder part time. Boulder to DIA is 42miles via the toll road and 99% of time ZERO traffic once you are on toll road. Avg speed is 79 MPH in a 75 and I'm still one of the the slowest drivers on E470 - 45 minute drive time with PAX
Old payout approximately 48.00$ after toll- new payout is 40.00$ 
Subtract 8$ in gas and an 1 hr to get back to Boulder non toll since I'm not waiting in the ANT lot and rematches can't be relied on.
What this means for me is no way in hell I'm taking X Airport trips in the future. XL only.
For me in my market, Ill make more money per hr in Boulder racking up 5 student 5 block trips per hr and let uber eat the difference in supplemental's, 3 trips for 6 bucks and quest pay with way less miles on my vehicle.
Keep in mind PUC rates for the airport are 85$ flat fare in a cab plus tolls and uber charges pax 66$-77$.
To the Boulder Drivers.... Time for all of us to decline the airport trips.
and to the Millennial philosopher in Australia on his extended gap year.
Please STFU about things you know nothing about. IE Neoliberalism is just a Fox talking point.
In the dumbed down english and thought of your Gen....
"Like the Chicago School and Hayek isn't a thing.... 100%"
For the rest of us we all know
"They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. That's right. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they're getting ****ed by a system that threw them overboard 30 ****in' years ago. They don't want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay." G Carlin.


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## ubergrind (May 23, 2017)

Rushmanyyz said:


> He lost 8 dollars on a trip that he didn't explain in any detailed way. I don't believe people by fiat.
> 
> Do the @@@@ing maths or shut up already...
> 
> ...


I reran that calculation using the actual rates .85 / .22 as they should have been and not Uber's rate of $ 1.05 per mile /.014 Mile. You are indeed correct that I make a slightly highly profit of a $ 1.00. H/T to you my friend, I can admit when I am wrong. Has this same scenario occurred under the new pay rates at that distance the break even point would be approx 64.5 mins. Anything below that it would be a pay decrease. Anything above is a slight increase. Valuing my time at + 1.00 for that trip does not make me feel very valued.

However, this morning I took my normal pickup drop up which took 35 mins @ 30 miles I made $ 27.50 (rounded) I lost $ 2.50 on that fare. That's not debatable. A $ 50 a week loss for me is a substantial pay decrease. Assuming I take those same trips, and worked 5 days a week, 52 weeks out of the year, I am losing $ 2,600 annually. I also ran this same trip under the new pay rates if I were to take the shorter slightly slower route. ( This is the route Uber recommends.) I still would lose $ 1 and some change by going this route comparing new to old. I would not think about taking this route even in light traffic since the longer route mileage wise nets me more gross profit. I pick up about 5 dollars more at the old rates.

Most of my trips originate from a 2.0 mile radius as this is how work this gig. As I prefaced in my post, for how I work and in this market it's a pay decrease for me. As several subsequent posters have stated, the speed in which you drive plays an important factor. Speed up you make less, slow down you make more.

For those that want to see the numbers in real life you can easily create a calculation and see what Uber has done. They are slightly increasing the value of short hauls in the Denver Market .

For example, if I take a trip that is going 4.5 Miles, and it takes me 20 minutes. Old rate my payout is $ 6.02 new rate is $ 7.24. That is a raise.

So let's say I take an airport trip, going 30 miles and it takes my 35 minutes. Old rate payout is $ 29 and change and under new rate I walked away with roughly $ 27.

80% of my rides are airport rides. The rest are either attached to CRB bonus or they have a surge attached. If by chance its not one of those I got duped with my destination filter on and caught a shorty.

When I compile all of my data, I am headed for a decrease in annual pay.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

If fuber's goal was to pay the drivers more, they'd raise the freakin time pay and either leave the mileage the same or increase it, period.

Nope, not fuber.

They're always looking for another angle on how to extract more and more money from the drivers' pay.

So they cynically set up the changes so that SOME drivers may come out ahead, but at the end of the day, it's an overall PAYCUT.


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

RushmanzanNPC said:


> Absolutely spot on here Colorado!
> I work Boulder part time. Boulder to DIA is 42miles via the toll road and 99% of time ZERO traffic once you are on toll road. Avg speed is 79 MPH in a 75 and I'm still one of the the slowest drivers on E470 - 45 minute drive time with PAX
> Old payout approximately 48.00$ after toll- new payout is 40.00$
> Subtract 8$ in gas and an 1 hr to get back to Boulder non toll since I'm not waiting in the ANT lot and rematches can't be relied on.
> ...


DANG I MISS CARLIN. THE ABSOLUTE BEST


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

Scott.Sul said:


> It's going to be different for every market/driver when you calculate using the local rates and using each driver's specific driving habits.
> If the current rates in the Charlotte market were to experience the same increases/decreases, my pay would have experienced the following.
> Last 20 rides = 7.2% increase
> Last 25 rides = 7.4% increase
> Last 30 rides = 8.1% increase


I took an additional look at my data and decided to recalculate with a bit more detail as my first analysis was done in haste.
Both scenarios using real rides reflected a pay increase of almost 6%
I do not drive during high traffic times... ever.


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

To Mega Therion said:


> I ran some recent rides with the numbers. I drive days at 7:00 - 3:00 in SoCal. The amount of traffic here would result in a small raise. Night long hauls might result in a decrease in pay.
> 
> *OLD*
> 26.21mls x $.7575 = $19.85
> ...


Very interesting results. Thanks for sharing.



Scott.Sul said:


> I took an additional look at my data and decided to recalculate with a bit more detail as my first analysis was done in haste.
> Both scenarios using real rides reflected a pay increase of almost 6%
> I do not drive during high traffic times... ever.
> View attachment 268540
> View attachment 268541


I like your Excel results. The elegance is in its simplicity. I attempted to replicate a bulk batch as you but I limited my scope to 1 (random) day - city weekend night driving. I have to say, in all honesty, I had a WTF moment. Here are my results:










On balance for that 1 day, it would be an increase at the avg speed of approximately 19MPH <-factual. Of course if I were to bump it to 20MPH avg, I'd be upside down <-theoretical. Nonetheless, your post has inspired me to perform weekly bulk analysis moving forward. Thanks!

One thing we all seem to take for granted is the *presumption* that Uber compensates drivers for the driver's ACTUAL distance traveled & ACTUAL time expended for a trip. This has not been proved/disproved and that controversy existed well before this thread was created. steveK2016 adds to the controversy with documented evidence from the executed contract which I quote, albeit out of context & emphasis added,

_"... where such Fare is calculated based upon a base fare amount plus distance (*as 
determined by Company* using location-based services enabled through the Device) *and/or time 
amounts* ..."._​I tried to validate the above quote but golly-gee Uber doesn't provide my executed contracts on the driver portal anymore. 

Until this presumption has been validated/invalidated any effort by a driver to pad the distance and/or time "might be" in for a disappointment if Uber has sole authority to make the determination(s). I'll stick to my forecast model - I can't change history but I can learn from it.

New theories make predictions which allow them to be disproved by reality.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

It really depends how much of a pay cut you took. 29% and your definitely better off with Lyft 10 or 15% maybe you made a tad more. Bottom line for uber worldwide is less payout to drivers. Ask them for their spreadsheet


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## BOUNCE DRIVER (Aug 23, 2018)

To Mega Therion said:


> You don't, that's why it's being pushed by business.


yep Soft Bank is investing millions into app companies like Upwork turning ALL workers into ICs

Uber is the most deceitful company on the planet so if they say it's an increase, you can be guaranteed it's a decrease.



Scott.Sul said:


> I took an additional look at my data and decided to recalculate with a bit more detail as my first analysis was done in haste.
> Both scenarios using real rides reflected a pay increase of almost 6%
> I do not drive during high traffic times... ever.
> View attachment 268540
> View attachment 268541


your samples are too small, try a few thousand rides.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

got a p said:


> I'm a little hesitant to debate a millennial with a BS in philosophy but no just no...the rates have indeed dropped the math is simple. Unless you are in perpetual traffic gridlock which is not how you do this hustle.
> Did you really need to say "literally"? You realize that's what millennials say every time they spew false information.


Millennials? What the ****?



ubergrind said:


> I reran that calculation using the actual rates .85 / .22 as they should have been and not Uber's rate of $ 1.05 per mile /.014 Mile. You are indeed correct that I make a slightly highly profit of a $ 1.00. H/T to you my friend, I can admit when I am wrong. Has this same scenario occurred under the new pay rates at that distance the break even point would be approx 64.5 mins. Anything below that it would be a pay decrease. Anything above is a slight increase. Valuing my time at + 1.00 for that trip does not make me feel very valued.
> 
> However, this morning I took my normal pickup drop up which took 35 mins @ 30 miles I made $ 27.50 (rounded) I lost $ 2.50 on that fare. That's not debatable. A $ 50 a week loss for me is a substantial pay decrease. Assuming I take those same trips, and worked 5 days a week, 52 weeks out of the year, I am losing $ 2,600 annually. I also ran this same trip under the new pay rates if I were to take the shorter slightly slower route. ( This is the route Uber recommends.) I still would lose $ 1 and some change by going this route comparing new to old. I would not think about taking this route even in light traffic since the longer route mileage wise nets me more gross profit. I pick up about 5 dollars more at the old rates.
> 
> ...


At last, an honest post. I never said anything about Uber's long term profitability. I have my own issues there but they're hard or useless to discuss here because, face it, I'll be ****ed to discuss my financial situation in detail with these trolls.

You can eyeball the rates and realize they are close. You can also figure out that drivers have complained and caused increasing problems with multi stops and traffic rides. I've personally stopped driving in peak hour just because of traffic.

This is an obvious correction to that. It might not be enough but I can see it as a safe stop-gap for Uber while they sort out what the next move is.

I'm not pro-Uber. I'm anti-bullshit.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

one easy tell when someone is lying, they are under 30 and used the word "literally" in an argument.


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

got a p said:


> one easy tell when someone is lying, they are under 30 and used the word "literally" in an argument.


You're, literally, wrong.


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## RaleighUber (Dec 4, 2016)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> This is the final straw for me. I resigned from UBER and uninstalled the ap this morning. I hope more drivers follow suit!


Welcome to the ranks of "former Uber Driver." Couple tips for post-uber life. 1) Relax, you don't have to clean up puke from your car anymore. 2) Re-engage - call some friends you haven't seen in a year cause you have been driving every weekend 3) Not all companies are as dishonest, sleezy, deceptive and thieving as Uber is to their "partners." Try to learn to trust a bit.

Enjoy!


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## Tom Harding (Sep 26, 2016)

BikingBob said:


> Off the tip of my tongue the federal limit is $.45 a mile. But I could be wrong.


You are. The Fed mileage deduction is $0.545 per mile. So Uber drivers are near break even amounts. After Fed mileage, phone, other expenses, we are net ZERO income. Only Time makes a small profit, except in highway trips.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

I'm literally not even posting right now literally


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

UBERgoober123 said:


> All of this arguing but uber may or may not pay you based on actual time and distance traveled.
> 
> They may or may not pay you based upon estimated time and distance and such rates could be drastically different then actual time distance.
> 
> Best to keep a watchful eye on the numbers. Bc they can literally pay you whatever they want. And the literally dont care if you wife and kids starve.


I've seen the complaints here about not being paid correctly but I've, not once, had it happen to me. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen or can't happen but it leaves me wondering, since so many drivers here argue so poorly or exaggerate ridiculously.

Everytime I've run my own numbers or investigated a complaint further, the driver has misrepresented something vital to the explanation. That's not to say that Uber's policies are perfect or that they are incapable of being overly vague. I've never not understood how they paid for a trip though, not in 3600 trips.


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

BOUNCE DRIVER said:


> ...your samples are too small, try a few thousand rides.


Sorry, most your gonna get is 850
Increase is even better
Actual rides only... does not include cancel fees or incentive bonuses.


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## UBERgoober123 (Jul 12, 2018)

Rushmanyyz said:


> I've seen the complaints here about not being paid correctly but I've, not once, had it happen to me. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen or can't happen but it leaves me wondering, since so many drivers here argue so poorly or exaggerate ridiculously.
> 
> Everytime I've run my own numbers or investigated a complaint further, the driver has misrepresented something vital to the explanation. That's not to say that Uber's policies are perfect or that they are incapable of being overly vague. I've never not understood how they paid for a trip though, not in 3600 trips.


Youve never had to contact customer service? Youve never had a cancelation and needed to get your fee thought you were gonna get $5 and they give you $2. One time they gave me 83 cents im not kidding. Why 83 cents no one knows. Youre telling me when you started you didnt think they were taking 25% commission when in reality thats completely wrong they pay 9 cents as minute. Youre telling me that when they changed the rates you knew what the new rates were before the announcement. You always knew you werent paid and actual time and distance.

Youre telling me youre a liar and you know everything and everyone else is stupid. Youre telling me that when you google "What percentage of the fare does Uber take?" You already knew the right answer and although there are dozens of wrong answers that pop up you knew they were wrong.



Scott.Sul said:


> Sorry, most your gonna get is 850
> Increase is even better
> Actual rides only... does not include cancel fees or incentive bonuses.
> View attachment 268795
> View attachment 268798


Our mile decrease is 24% which would put you in the red.


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

UBERgoober123 said:


> Our mile decrease is 24% which would put you in the red.


We can all keep arguing but it's going to be different for every market/driver when you calculate using the local rates and using each driver's specific driving environment.

For me, considering Charlotte rates and city driving.
1 mile 15% decrease -10¢
2 minute 88% increase +21¢
Highway driving will break about even (<+1¢)


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## Ardery (May 26, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> You'll have the app reinstalled before the end of the week.


^ ^ LOL ^ ^

I wonder how many rides he's done since.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


Houston driver here. We had this new rate structure in place for the last few months, and I can confirm, its a losing situation. We make less now.

If you think Lyft will not change, think again, Lyft recently matched the new Uber rates here in Houston


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Scott.Sul said:


> Sorry, most your gonna get is 850
> Increase is even better
> Actual rides only... does not include cancel fees or incentive bonuses.
> View attachment 268795
> View attachment 268798


Why are you trying so hard to convince us it's a pay raise when we know it's a PAYCUT?

The fact that you may have come out slightly ahead proves nothing except fuber is clever enough to let some drivers come out ahead, but overall, fuber's taking more of the drivers' money.

If fuber wanted us to have a raise, they would have simply raised the rates with no strings attached.


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## Tom Harding (Sep 26, 2016)

Trebor said:


> Houston driver here. We had this new rate structure in place for the last few months, and I can confirm, its a losing situation. We make less now.
> 
> If you think Lyft will not change, think again, Lyft recently matched the new Uber rates here in Houston


Then Uber/Lyft drivers should start reaching out to other companies like Bounce, Juno, VIA to come and give Uber competition. Maybe a local ride share company could be organized like the one in Austin, Texas. Although Uber lowered the avarage income of drivers, they increased the average fare of riders with "Up front Pricing" . This pricing gives honest companies a chance to compete for both drivers and riders.
I propose a NATION WIDE STRIKE AGAINST UBER AND LYFT FOR 2 DAYS A WEEK FOR ONE MONTH!!
In India Uber and Ola have been on strike for 3 days


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

UBERgoober123 said:


> Youve never had to contact customer service? Youve never had a cancelation and needed to get your fee thought you were gonna get $5 and they give you $2. One time they gave me 83 cents im not kidding. Why 83 cents no one knows. Youre telling me when you started you didnt think they were taking 25% commission when in reality thats completely wrong they pay 9 cents as minute. Youre telling me that when they changed the rates you knew what the new rates were before the announcement. You always knew you werent paid and actual time and distance.
> 
> Youre telling me youre a liar and you know everything and everyone else is stupid. Youre telling me that when you google "What percentage of the fare does Uber take?" You already knew the right answer and although there are dozens of wrong answers that pop up you knew they were wrong.
> 
> Our mile decrease is 24% which would put you in the red.


My god, read. Just read. You're tragically boneheaded about this I swear.

Least the feed gets quieter every time I ignore one of you. Talk about painful...


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Why are you trying so hard to convince us it's a pay raise when we know it's a PAYCUT?
> The fact that you may have come out slightly ahead proves nothing except fuber is clever enough to let some drivers come out ahead, but overall, fuber's taking more of the drivers' money.
> If fuber wanted us to have a raise, they would have simply raised the rates with no strings attached.


I am not trying to convince people of anything...but everyone should do the math and form their own opinions. Don't just take the word of people who may not know how to do math. Take a look at some of the replies on this thread from those who draw absurd conclusions without any facts to support their argument.

You say "you know it's a paycut". How do you know? Have you done the math using your own driving history or are you just drawing conclusions based on how you think Uber operates?

And we don't even know the entire truth of the cut? Did Uber calculate the reduction/increase before taking their cut? My guess is Uber did exactly that. A 15% reduction before Uber takes their 25% cut will actually calculate closer to a 20% cut from your actual pay rate. The same would be for the minutes increase but the dollar impact would be less.

I believe there is no way Uber would ever give their drivers a pay increase. But I also don't trust opinions from those who draw conclusions based on feelings... or with an insignificant data sample.


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## Tom Harding (Sep 26, 2016)

Scott.Sul said:


> I am not trying to convince people of anything...but everyone should do the math and form their own opinions. Don't just take the word of people who may not know how to do math. Take a look at some of the replies on this thread from those who draw absurd conclusions without any facts to support their argument.
> 
> You say "you know it's a paycut". How do you know? Have you done the math using your own driving history or are you just drawing conclusions based on how you think Uber operates?
> 
> ...


To make a usable comparison use two trips.
1. A short trip from around Hyde Park or Lincoln Park and calculate the old and new rates. I have and the short trip with new rates pay more.
2. Take a long trip from around Midway to O'Hare to somewhere like Oak Brook or North Lake. In this scenario the long trip pays less.
3. Average out your short and long trips for a week and then calculate the differences fromt he old rates to the new rates.
Each driver has a different mix of trips and that mix will tell you if you are earning less or more. For those that like long high speed trips, the chanced are you will earn less, but if you like those short trips in congested areas, you will earn a little more.
Just do the math for your situation and driving patterns.


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## Zap (Oct 24, 2016)

Tom Harding said:


> To make a usable comparison use two trips.
> 1. A short trip from around Hyde Park or Lincoln Park and calculate the old and new rates. I have and the short trip with new rates pay more.
> 2. Take a long trip from around Midway to O'Hare to somewhere like Oak Brook or North Lake. In this scenario the long trip pays less.
> 3. Average out your short and long trips for a week and then calculate the differences fromt he old rates to the new rates.
> ...


To add to your point, here's a snapshot of a moment in time - Chicago, 10/24/2018 1808 CDT (6:08 PM) - heavy rush hour traffic.










Madison & State is the city center; 0N & 0E. Destination is ORD Terminal 1 departures.
Distance & time works out to 22.5 MPH AVG (on I-90) for the snapshot above.
Given the snapshot above changes the nature of time to a fixed value, I find it works out to this:










Even if it worked out to be a 0.85% increase, it would still be not enough to *CON*vince me into doing ORD runs during rush.
A pay increase for time at the *expense* of distance is so wrong on so many levels. If Uber really "cared" for a driver's time as they claim, then the scope of the change should be limited to time alone. Otherwise, I am purchasing the pay increase for time with the pay decrease for mileage. (let that last sentence simmer for awhile)

Fellow Chicago drivers know that at non rush hours (especially around 2-5 AM), it'll take about 20 minutes (54.0 MPH AVG) to do that ORD run & that works out to be:


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## Jumpin Jim (Mar 4, 2018)

Here's the math. Tipping point is 30 mph. Earn more with new rates under 30 mph. Earn less over 30 mph.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Jumpin Jim said:


> View attachment 269056
> Here's the math. Tipping point is 30 mph. Earn more with new rates under 30 mph. Earn less over 30 mph.


Nice hand writing

Now flip that page over


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Jumpin Jim said:


> Here's the math. Tipping point is 30 mph. Earn more with new rates under 30 mph. Earn less over 30 mph.


Concise, simplistic, well presented and easy to follow and plug in your own rate changes. To top things off, you didn't resort to calling anyone else a moron. A certain other antagonist on this thread could learn (but likely won't) from your example. Thanks and well done.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

We're all getting different pay cuts. We got a 29% cut on miles where I'm at. How would you guys who got a 15% cut feel if it was twice that?
But on the other hand lyft has remained solid and still has actual surge. Not the new Charlotte non surge nonsense.


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## UBERgoober123 (Jul 12, 2018)

You are all still assuming that uber pays you based off of actual time driven and not estimated time of travel. Which has yet to be proven. 

If they pay based on actual time it may not be as severe s paycut as if they pay based on an estimated time with no traffic.


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## Jumpin Jim (Mar 4, 2018)

mrpjfresh said:


> Concise, simplistic, well presented and easy to follow and plug in your own rate changes. To top things off, you didn't resort to calling anyone else a moron. A certain other antagonist on this thread could learn (but likely won't) from your example. Thanks and well done.


Thanks for the compliment! Much appreciated!


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## MarkR (Jul 26, 2015)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


Why are you surprised? This was their plan from the start. WOW! I GET 80% OF MY EARNINGS!!! NOW, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN $6/hr?" HAHA...They have all the drivers they need. I just wish I used that $$ at the beginning to buy UBER stock (no I don't want it now)



BikingBob said:


> Off the tip of my tongue the federal limit is $.45 a mile. But I could be wrong.


You are under the impression that DOT controlls UBER. Uber is a private company with NO FLEET. My old company never paid for mileage when I had to drive to another facility. If I wanted to keep my job, this is what I had to do. UBER SKIRTS THE LAW ON EVERYTHING.


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## BOUNCE DRIVER (Aug 23, 2018)

Yep and companies like Upwork will be changing even more jobs to IC.


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## To Mega Therion (Apr 21, 2018)

Don't you just _love_ tech bros?


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

Think strategically...

There is also the possibility this is Uber's attempt to...
1) Ensure they comply with all federal and local minimum wage laws
2) Prerequisite for a PR campaign to advertise all Uber drivers are paid a minimum of $15 per hour while transporting passengers.

If all drivers in all markets are paid at least $0.25 per minute, they are being truthful.
Would sway public opinion towards "Uber drivers can make a living wage". Must be a good company.
Attract more drivers.
We all know this would be a smoke and mirrors campaign and it would....

Again leave drivers at a disadvantage when pax think we got a raise.
Reduce tips. (we now make $15 per hour)
Remember, you heard it here first (I think).


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## Nonya busy (May 18, 2017)

Zap said:


> Chicago market got a cut too.  An $18 airport run is now $14 but uber still charges pax $35.


Did chicago select and black make a cut too? How do i find rates for Chicago?



Ribak said:


> I am an Independent Contractor. As such, I have limited expectations for UBER/LYFT.


You haven't figured out your really an employee yet huh??


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## UBERgoober123 (Jul 12, 2018)

Nonya busy said:


> Did chicago select and black make a cut too? How do i find rates for Chicago?
> 
> You haven't figured out your really an employee yet huh??


I actually enjoy working as an independent. If you are taking this job seriously you are going to be mad and disappointed. But if you strategically slack off, take it easy, log out during rush hour, log in late everyday, get off work early. Take random "me" days and no show no call. Then youre doing it wrong.

Go ahead and take an extra long lunch today, you deserve it.

At the end of the day you get what you pay for.


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## litentite (Feb 25, 2015)

No it's almost 56 cent a mile for government Uber paying 9 cent a mile to drive in Chicago wake the f up


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## UncensoredFob (Oct 30, 2018)

Ron Jeremy Sez said:


> Got an email today that stated they are increasing our time pay by 88% but cutting our mileage by 15%.
> 
> This shows that UBER really believes that drivers are mindless @@@@@@s.
> 
> ...


Seriously why don't we go on strike like they just did in Europe? Driver for another ridesharing company for a weekend.

Uber will keep pushing us around until we stand up to them. Imean there is nothing to lose. Uber can't fire you for not going online!!!


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

UncensoredFob said:


> Seriously why don't we go on strike like they just did in Europe?


The question is...

did that strike do any good?


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## moJohoJo (Feb 19, 2017)

I used to drive for Lyft because they treated their drivers better and with respect but now after constant disturbing texts both while driving and before accepting trips & being lied to in order to get you to accept a far away trip LYFT is now far worse then Uber ever was .


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## JJUberman (Nov 14, 2018)

It seems like they are doing whatever they can to be profitable for the IPO <<<<< ?????????
Uh, no. They're not. They're just trying to finger the ****.......Which **** ? THIS ****;

*Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1 Billion*


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