# Denying rides based on destination



## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

I'm not sure if I've seen this covered anywhere on UP.NET. I have always operated on the basis that if I really don't want to go certain places, I just cxl. Some pax think we have to take them no matter what.

Has it ever been an issue to anyone? Do you know anyone that has been Wait listed or deactivated by uber for refusing because of destination?


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

dirtylee said:


> I'm not sure if I've seen this covered anywhere on UP.NET. I have always operated on the basis that if I really don't want to go certain places, I just cxl. Some pax think we have to take them no matter what.
> 
> Has it ever been an issue to anyone? Do you know anyone that has been Wait listed or deactivated by uber for refusing because of destination?


Some pax think we are required to make as many stops as they want for however long they want too.

Why would you not want to go to a certain place, like a bad neighborhood?

We as independent contractors can refuse any ride except for legit service animal from what I understand. But if you have too many cancellations they can deactivate you. If someone accuses you of racism for not going into the hood you may also get in trouble, Uber would sooner fire you than deal with Al Sharpton.

Never forget that Uber drivers are disposable and replaceable, but never put yourself in jeopardy especially when you get a bad feeling about something. I would rather offend someone and get fired than get killed.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

dirtylee said:


> I'm not sure if I've seen this covered anywhere on UP.NET. I have always operated on the basis that if I really don't want to go certain places, I just cxl. Some pax think we have to take them no matter what.
> 
> Has it ever been an issue to anyone? Do you know anyone that has been Wait listed or deactivated by uber for refusing because of destination?


Cancellations are one thing you will definitely be deactivated for. Even if it's not about race or ethnicity per se, people will claim that and it can have the appearance of that, so it will be treated as that. Consider that many drivers are themselves minorities and immigrants, and most people around the world do not have the same taboo about discrimination and antipathy toward someone of a different ethnic background as white Americans do, so Uber probably gets a lot of these complaints.

But I don't think it's a profitable strategy anyway, once you drive to a ping you're already invested in it and rather than a CXL and a $0.00 fare you might as well take the ride. It doesn't seem that dangerous to me, even a criminal who calls us just wants a ride and if he wanted to rob a driver he would be better off calling a taxi who takes street hails and cash. Just watch out for names that don't match the passenger, you could be dealing with a stolen phone.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I've canceled once or twice headed to a pickup late night when I got uncomfortable with the neighborhood. But I've never canceled a ride after it's started because of the address.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

dirtylee said:


> I'm not sure if I've seen this covered anywhere on UP.NET. I have always operated on the basis that if I really don't want to go certain places, I just cxl. Some pax think we have to take them no matter what.
> 
> Has it ever been an issue to anyone? Do you know anyone that has been Wait listed or deactivated by uber for refusing because of destination?


That's just wrong.
Becoming everything people disliked about taxis.


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## LanceDiamond (Apr 4, 2017)

Couple years ago before I started driving, I had no clue how Uber worked other than I knew I couldn't order one in advance. The day I needed to go from Grapevine Texas to Huntsville Texas (193 miles) I just ordered an Uber and waited. First older woman in brand new car shows up, I get in the car she messes with her phone and says "you want to go where?" I get out, order another - same result except the guy at least pointed out that I could contact the driver and should probably do that for such a long trip. At this point I was loosing hope but contacted driver #3 and he snap-accepted. Quality of cars declined over the 3 drivers - guy #3 shows up in a slightly beat up Sentra I think he said had 250k miles or something lol. He did take me to Huntsville but didn't shut up the whole way other than when I said hey I'm gonna put my headphones on listen to music awhile.

First 2 of 3 in that case cancelled I assume - I wasn't billed - because of the distance. Dunno how extreme the cutoff there could be - I mean if you're in an area that you know will surge soon say - bars area just before last call - but not currently surging and you get a 30min trip - is it legit to decline that due to distance? Seems a matter of degrees to me - who's to say 30min isn't too far to take at certain times...


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## Ivanz (Mar 26, 2017)

Let's assume you have normal work or w/e planned for future. 200 miles is 3 -4 hours highway one way. Then going back. If the area you live does not have Lyft, there is no destination mode. Dead miles back. Alone. 3 to 4 hours.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Ivanz said:


> Let's assume you have normal work or w/e planned for future. 200 miles is 3 -4 hours highway one way. Then going back. If the area you live does not have Lyft, there is no destination mode. Dead miles back. Alone. 3 to 4 hours.


There is a destination filter for Uber in my market. Doesn't work that well, more of a way to avoid getting rides and remain online for the writeoff than of getting rides, although occasionally you get one. I hear the Lyft one works a lot better.


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## Ivanz (Mar 26, 2017)

I randomly have access to the Uber destination filter but only while miles from home and past around 3 am. Otherwise it's only Lyft baby.

Also the one time I wound up in Philly at around 3 am and used the Uber destination with an hour or so past the estimated time for arrival and got a trip at 5 am back the the Philly airport. After that I stuck to the Lyft filter and didn't get home till 10 am. Slept whole day.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> There is a destination filter for Uber in my market. Doesn't work that well, more of a way to avoid getting rides and remain online for the writeoff than of getting rides, although occasionally you get one. I hear the Lyft one works a lot better.


...You don't have to be online for the write-off. You just have to be driving in connection with the income you are writing off. Going offline to move to a better location is still business miles.


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## d0n (Oct 16, 2016)

None has ever been removed for doing that, that immediately entitles you to a win should you sue to dispute your standing as a contractor or an employee.


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## Jon E (Feb 15, 2017)

I always cancel if pax has grocery cart full of groceries. Hassle. Time consuming. Usually a min fare.


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## Hogg (Feb 7, 2016)

I have cancelled due to distance several times. One was an out of state trip, one was just a couple of counties. The passenger on the second one tried to tell me we couldn't cancel like that, but he was wrong. Its not like you can put in any destination you want and basically kidnap a driver.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

The only destination I cancel for is New York City. It's just too far - 6 hour round trip from my area. Not willing to commit my entire day for one ride.


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## Ivanz (Mar 26, 2017)

Atom guy said:


> The only destination I cancel for is New York City. It's just too far - 6 hour round trip from my area. Not willing to commit my entire day for one ride.


Not to mention you would need to be in destination mode the other way. Otherwise some asshole will want you to take them across the river once you get out. And getting out takes for ever.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

Atom guy said:


> The only destination I cancel for is New York City. It's just too far - 6 hour round trip from my area. Not willing to commit my entire day for one ride.


That would be a great trip for you. Just do that one trip and be done


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> Cancellations are one thing you will definitely be deactivated for. Even if it's not about race or ethnicity per se, people will claim that and it can have the appearance of that, so it will be treated as that. Consider that many drivers are themselves minorities and immigrants, and most people around the world do not have the same taboo about discrimination and antipathy toward someone of a different ethnic background as white Americans do, so Uber probably gets a lot of these complaints.
> 
> But I don't think it's a profitable strategy anyway, once you drive to a ping you're already invested in it and rather than a CXL and a $0.00 fare you might as well take the ride. It doesn't seem that dangerous to me, even a criminal who calls us just wants a ride and if he wanted to rob a driver he would be better off calling a taxi who takes street hails and cash. Just watch out for names that don't match the passenger, you could be dealing with a stolen phone.


We think a like. I think the bigger issue is calling them and asking for the destination especially at airports vs arriving and then finding out then cancelling is 2 different issues the way uber looks at it. I could be wrong but from reading and spending way too much time here seems accurate.

Its not often but i have cancelled based on destination or of i had an appointment and did not think i could make it, maybe single digits offf almost 2000 rides, but if i am free i will take you anywhere bad neighborhood or far i dont care


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

I've only canceled once based on a destination. It was 2:30am, pax wanted me to drive 2 hours into the boonies, and I'd already been driving all night. Told her sorry, that was too far and canceled and told her I'd wait with her until she hailed another Uber (it was a dark, poorly lit street outside a closed bar).

She was cool with it, understood and got her ride.


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## pismire (May 2, 2017)

dirtylee said:


> I'm not sure if I've seen this covered anywhere on UP.NET. I have always operated on the basis that if I really don't want to go certain places, I just cxl. Some pax think we have to take them no matter what.
> 
> Has it ever been an issue to anyone? Do you know anyone that has been Wait listed or deactivated by uber for refusing because of destination?


You will get deactivated for this.


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

pismire said:


> You will get deactivated for this.


No you won't.

I have a friend who did it relentlessly at the airport until they cracked down and started removing everyone's ability to get trips from it, he now does it outside the airport with impunity and still drives for over 2 months already?

Scare tactics, they don't wanna kick you and then pay you a settlement.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

pismire said:


> You will get deactivated for this.


I received two flags on my account for refusing to go into New York City. I'm in New Jersey. It should be noted that while I do not want to go into New York City, I carefully worded the text that I would send to the passengers as soon as I accepted their request to indicate I did not want to leave my own state. I got one flag, went into the green light hub on a Friday, had to see s or tell me that my text was absolutely fine and that the flag of my account was removed. On Sunday I receive notice that there was a second flag on my account, yes that there were now two of them. I went back into the green light Hub on Monday, saw a different CSR who told me that the first flag have never been removed, as the first CSR had told me, my text was not in accordance with Uber policy, and that if I received too many flags for the same issue, I would be deactivated with no chance of reactivation. She could not tell me how many flags would be too many.

In New Jersey, this is further complicated, or maybe actually uncomplicated, by the new law that went into effect on May 1st. We are now legal in New Jersey, and regulated. Part of the regulation states that we cannot discriminate against rides because of the destination. We are also not allowed, of course, to discriminate on the usuals: race, religion, etc. Apparently, while originally the destination issue was to avoid discrimination against the usuals, it is now its own category. Bu Uber policy, and state law.


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## pismire (May 2, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> I received two flags on my account for refusing to go into New York City. I'm in New Jersey. It should be noted that while I do not want to go into New York City, I carefully worded the text that I would send to the passengers as soon as I accepted their request to indicate I did not want to leave my own state. I got one flag, went into the green light hub on a Friday, had to see s or tell me that my text was absolutely fine and that the flag of my account was removed. On Sunday I receive notice that there was a second flag on my account, yes that there were now two of them. I went back into the green light Hub on Monday, saw a different CSR who told me that the first flag have never been removed, as the first CSR had told me, my text was not in accordance with Uber policy, and that if I received too many flags for the same issue, I would be deactivated with no chance of reactivation. She could not tell me how many flags would be too many.
> 
> In New Jersey, this is further complicated, or maybe actually uncomplicated, by the new law that went into effect on May 1st. We are now legal in New Jersey, and regulated. Part of the regulation states that we cannot discriminate against rides because of the destination. We are also not allowed, of course, to discriminate on the usuals: race, religion, etc. Apparently, while originally the destination issue was to avoid discrimination against the usuals, it is now its own category. Bu Uber policy, and state law.


This is great information! Thanks for sharing! I don't drive in your market, but it is very interesting to me.


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> I received two flags on my account for refusing to go into New York City. I'm in New Jersey. It should be noted that while I do not want to go into New York City, I carefully worded the text that I would send to the passengers as soon as I accepted their request to indicate I did not want to leave my own state. I got one flag, went into the green light hub on a Friday, had to see s or tell me that my text was absolutely fine and that the flag of my account was removed. On Sunday I receive notice that there was a second flag on my account, yes that there were now two of them. I went back into the green light Hub on Monday, saw a different CSR who told me that the first flag have never been removed, as the first CSR had told me, my text was not in accordance with Uber policy, and that if I received too many flags for the same issue, I would be deactivated with no chance of reactivation. She could not tell me how many flags would be too many.
> 
> In New Jersey, this is further complicated, or maybe actually uncomplicated, by the new law that went into effect on May 1st. We are now legal in New Jersey, and regulated. Part of the regulation states that we cannot discriminate against rides because of the destination. We are also not allowed, of course, to discriminate on the usuals: race, religion, etc. Apparently, while originally the destination issue was to avoid discrimination against the usuals, it is now its own category. Bu Uber policy, and state law.


Lol, they managed to lobby the bill that far?

Wow, poor New Jersey.

Too bad I am not in NJ.


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Flags? We don't have that shit here otherwise the airport cue would be empty.

Not sure being able to deny rides based on distance or destination puts us in the employee category.

We are not independent contractors when we can't

Set our own rates
See the destination before accepting said work {i.e. in the ping}
If we can't deny destination for valid reasons {not protected by law i.e. race, gender, etc etc} w/o fear of losing work.
That makes us employees. Glad I live close to the East Texas federal district where juries award big money for such foolishness from companies.


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## Jon E (Feb 15, 2017)

dirtylee said:


> Flags? We don't have that shit here otherwise the airport cue would be empty.
> 
> Not sure being able to deny rides based on distance or destination puts us in the employee category.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you live there also.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

dirtylee said:


> Flags? We don't have that shit here otherwise the airport cue would be empty.
> 
> Not sure being able to deny rides based on distance or destination puts us in the employee category.
> 
> ...


Technically you can get deactivated for denying a ride based on geological destination, depending on the state regulations. In calofornia, the CPUC states we cannot deny a ride based on geological location. But of it is a distance issue or monetary issue it is grey area.
Odds are they would never deactivate you but I guess they technically could. I won't drive somewhere of I am not making money on that ride.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

PrestonT said:


> ...You don't have to be online for the write-off. You just have to be driving in connection with the income you are writing off. Going offline to move to a better location is still business miles.


That's true, but being online provides electronic documentation of it, just in case. I live about 100 miles from the casinos in my state, so when I go out there I take my Uber vehicle and set the destination for the casino. Sometimes I get a decent ride, usually I don't, but either way I get a writeoff for miles I would have been driving anyway. What you're really doing is driving personal miles in a way you can call them business miles.



TheWanderer said:


> Technically you can get deactivated for denying a ride based on geological destination....


Oh no not geological destination!

"A passenger has reported that they were denied a ride because their destination was a large deposit of sedimentary rock with evidence of erosion due to later glaciation. It is Uber's policy that all passengers be served regardless of geological conditions. Repeated complaints of this kind will result in deactivation."


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> That's true, but being online provides electronic documentation of it, just in case. I live about 100 miles from the casinos in my state, so when I go out there I take my Uber vehicle and set the destination for the casino. Sometimes I get a decent ride, usually I don't, but either way I get a writeoff for miles I would have been driving anyway. What you're really doing is driving personal miles in a way you can call them business miles.
> 
> Oh no not geological destination!
> 
> "A passenger has reported that they were denied a ride because their destination was a large deposit of sedimentary rock with evidence of erosion due to later glaciation. It is Uber's policy that all passengers be served regardless of geological conditions. Repeated complaints of this kind will result in deactivation."


I just said technically you could. I have never heard of it happening though. And I will continue to do it until it happens to me.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

TheWanderer said:


> I just said technically you could. I have never heard of it happening though.


He was having fun with the word "geological," which should have been, "geographic."


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## SEPA_UberDude (Apr 18, 2017)

PrestonT said:


> He was having fun with the word "geological," which should have been, "geographic."


Buzzkill!


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

PrestonT said:


> He was having fun with the word "geological," which should have been, "geographic."


Oh lol.


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

Uber says you can cancel if the destination is farther than you want to drive. This is from the driver app help section (I'm in TX in case this doesn't apply in other states....):


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Where's the worry? Our fares are collected by Uber, so you'll get paid- no runners here. Since we don't handle cash, we're poor robbery targets.

Also, what's a "bad" location? Since housing projects are often right next to yuppie condos, all someone need do is run a few steps.


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> Also, what's a "bad" location? Since housing projects are often right next to yuppie condos, all someone need do is run a few steps.


I would say a bad location is (a) somewhere really far when you don't have the time, are about to stop driving altogether for the day/night, or are too tired; (b) somewhere far when you know all the miles back will be dead miles. That's a money loser in many cases, especially if you drive XL or higher and accepted an X request. The gas will cost more than you can make. In Houston, I turn the app off 90 minutes before I have to be somewhere. It takes about an hour and a half to go to the airport and come back. If it's within 90 minutes of a commitment I have to be somewhere, I don't want to have to call and ask where they're going and cancel if it will take too long. Any farther than the airport, and I would cancel unless I had the hours to spare and knew at least I'd make a small amount of money rather than pay via gas/time/wear-and-tear to give a stranger a ride for their convenience at my expense.


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## reaperducer (Apr 23, 2017)

Here in Las Vegas, all the tourists assume prostitution is legal, but it isn't. You have to go to the next county for that. And in Nevada, the counties are larger than many eastern states. 

The problem is that if you drag a passenger into the desert to a brothel (Like sports? Good, there's a sports-themed brothel 90 minutes out. Like space aliens? The space alien-themed brothel is like four hours away.) you're never going to get a ping for a ride back, so you're talking hundreds of dead miles. 

What we do is explain this to the passenger. The customary solution is that they tip us $50 to $100 up front to take them there. If they think they're going to want a ride back to town, we arrange a date* and time and return then for the promise of another $50 to $100 tip. 

The reason this arrangement works is because when a Nevada TNC driver ("Uber") drops someone off at a Nevada brothel, you walk the client in and fill out an IRS form with the management. Then when you return, they give you a check for 10% of whatever the customer spent. It's all very very legal and documented and reported to all of the necessary gub'mint agencies. Some drivers have made thousands per passenger this way. Most only make hundreds. The most I've made was in the very low hundreds. But it makes the lonely dead mikes back to the city worth it. 

(*Date, because it's very common for people to spend days or even a week at a Nevada brothel. Though, usually if you're staying a week, you take an air taxi, not an Uber.)


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

Lelekm said:


> Uber says you can cancel if the destination is farther than you want to drive. This is from the driver app help section (I'm in TX in case this doesn't apply in other states....):


Distance and location are not always the same thing. I have denied rides that were going far, that is ok to do, but saying, "I don't want to take you because that area has a history of violence" is technically against our local regulations but deactivation would never happen.


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## sidemouse (Apr 2, 2017)

Yup, Uber is going down the same road that every single for-hire company before them ever went, won't be long now before the distinction won't even be noticeable.


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

No one in the history of this crap has ever been deactivated for denying people destinations, reason why they cant do that is because it automatically sets you as an employee should you take it to court.

The second reason is that they have NO PROOF WHATSOEVER, except the passenger's word, **** they could have a recording and it's all but toilet paper in court, the word of the passenger could be used to sue the passenger for libel if you get deactivated, why do you think they play these games of taking you out of the airport queue instead of just kicking you out of uber? Because they would get destroyed by a lawyer for doing so.


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## GT500KR (Jan 30, 2017)

Ivanz said:


> Let's assume you have normal work or w/e planned for future. 200 miles is 3 -4 hours highway one way. Then going back. If the area you live does not have Lyft, there is no destination mode. Dead miles back. Alone. 3 to 4 hours.


Exactly, a heavy traffic corridor as well. I would request an unofficial fee of 4 General Grants'. But you risk customer screwing you by complaining.Uber and Lyft would do well to address the return dead mile issue. Cab drivers from 1945 on would request "double the meter" on long trips.



TheWanderer said:


> Technically you can get deactivated for denying a ride based on geological destination, depending on the state regulations. In calofornia, the CPUC states we cannot deny a ride based on geological location. But of it is a distance issue or monetary issue it is grey area.
> Odds are they would never deactivate you but I guess they technically could. I won't drive somewhere of I am not making money on that ride.


We should start a new thread, Jurisdictions where it sucks most to do Uber Ie. the Southeast US for low rates. N,Y, New Jersey L.A. S.F for regs,Seattle nominee for 1890 era streets(cobblestones)!



Jesusdrivesuber said:


> No one in the history of this crap has ever been deactivated for denying people destinations, reason why they cant do that is because it automatically sets you as an employee should you take it to court.
> 
> The second reason is that they have NO PROOF WHATSOEVER, except the passenger's word, &%[email protected]!* they could have a recording and it's all but toilet paper in court, the word of the passenger could be used to sue the passenger for libel if you get deactivated, why do you think they play these games of taking you out of the airport queue instead of just kicking you out of uber? Because they would get destroyed by a lawyer for doing so.


Go to your local tire store and get some road debris screws. When a customer requests an undesirable destination. You show the customer the screw saying you just removed from tire and let them call another Uber. Never mention Service dogs or destinations as a reason to cancel. Never e mailing those phrases should be a given. Plausible deniability reasonable doubt dash cams, are the tools of today's ride share driver. Some classified destinations are better served in G/23. LC 9 modes.


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

TheWanderer said:


> I won't drive somewhere of I am not making money on that ride.


So what do you to avoid making money-losing trips? Ask each time where the pax is going, or start the ride and then tell them to get out and cancel it?


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## westsidebum (Feb 7, 2015)

I know someone that got deactivated from uber for too many cancels. He was making huge money in beach area where it would traffic jam and he could not get to pax in timely manner and they would cancel on him.

I know lyft,driver who refused to leave her city limits in metro l. a. She would call ahead and ask pax destination.She was very part time ideal ride for her to save drunk asian girls and give them safe ride from bars


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

I am not going to drive 40 miles after 11 hours of driving and before bedtime.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Lelekm said:


> So what do you to avoid making money-losing trips? Ask each time where the pax is going, or start the ride and then tell them to get out and cancel it?


Neither. Be more selective with where you get your rides. You can't expect every ride to be a good one, all you can reasonably do is just avoid getting more than your share of bad ones. If you want to avoid going to certain areas stay in places where the people there are not likely to be going to those certain areas.

Got to consider that good rides vs. bad rides is a zero-sum game, all those people with undesirable pickups and destinations are eventually going to get rides. They're profitable for a driver who is already a couple of blocks away, but if you don't want to be that driver use your pax app and make sure you are not the closest driver to the places you don't want to pick up in. At the same time try to be the closest driver to the areas you do want to serve. If you're still getting those pings and you're not the closest driver you know those drivers are calling the passengers and cherry-picking rides, so let them do it and get deactivated, and you can just refuse the ping. This system works pretty well for me, I usually don't have to take more than 1-2 slum rides a night and if I find myself getting bounced around in a slum with stacked pings I just go offline and get out of there and into a better position.


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## Human v2.0 (Mar 5, 2017)

dirtylee said:


> Flags? We don't have that shit here otherwise the airport cue would be empty.
> 
> Not sure being able to deny rides based on distance or destination puts us in the employee category.
> 
> ...


UNLESS Those things are regulated by a governing body.


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> That's just wrong.
> Becoming everything people disliked about taxis.


Dude, we ARE taxis. This whole 'rideshare' thing is a hoax. No one is sharing anything. It's all about money.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Jagent said:


> Dude, we ARE taxis. This whole 'rideshare' thing is a hoax. No one is sharing anything. It's all about money.


I think the point was it was supposed to be a gig, one that would attract people who don't have the same character as full time taxi drivers and work in places that are not well served by taxis.


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## MattMo81 (Oct 26, 2016)

I'm in the Philly market and drive part time about 20-25 hrs per week in addition to my 9-5 M-F job. Not long after I started driving for Uber I got a ping around 10:30 PM on a Wednesday night. Center City to north Jersey right outside NYC. 2 hrs each way. I had to think about it for a second because I'd get home really late and had work in the morning. It had been a slow night up to that point so I said screw it, let's go. It was a 1.2x surge. $130 fare. With gas and tolls taken out, my net earning was considerably less. I was able to get 2 short trips going south back to Philly using the destination filter that barely covered the tolls I paid on the way back. I ended up calling out from my FT job in the morning and using a vacation day. In hindsight it wasn't worth it. If I ever get another trip like this I'm going to say I need at least $50 cash from the pax to make it worth my while. More if no surge. We can stop at an ATM if they don't have it on them. I'm sure it would still be less than if they hailed a cab. If the pax isn't willing to pay, cancel the trip and they can request another driver. I wonder how Uber would handle it if the pax complained to them about it? Thoughts?


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

MattMo81 said:


> ...If the pax isn't willing to pay, cancel the trip and they can request another driver. I wonder how Uber would handle it if the pax complained to them about it? Thoughts?


Totally deactivated.


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> Totally deactivated.


Yep. If a pax complains that a driver asked them to pay cash outside of the app, you bet Uber won't like it. That's going around their system. I would just tell the pax you can't do that ride because you lose money doing it but assure them lots of drivers either haven't figured that out or don't care about losing gas and value on their car for a few pennies in cash. Tell them to request again; some driver will always take a money-losing ride. That's why Uber will always get away with screwing over drivers.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Jesusdrivesuber said:


> No one in the history of this crap has ever been deactivated for denying people destinations, reason why they cant do that is because it automatically sets you as an employee should you take it to court.
> 
> The second reason is that they have NO PROOF WHATSOEVER, except the passenger's word, &%[email protected]!* they could have a recording and it's all but toilet paper in court, the word of the passenger could be used to sue the passenger for libel if you get deactivated, why do you think they play these games of taking you out of the airport queue instead of just kicking you out of uber? Because they would get destroyed by a lawyer for doing so.


Have a cite to back up that claim?



MattMo81 said:


> I'm in the Philly market and drive part time about 20-25 hrs per week in addition to my 9-5 M-F job. Not long after I started driving for Uber I got a ping around 10:30 PM on a Wednesday night. Center City to north Jersey right outside NYC. 2 hrs each way. I had to think about it for a second because I'd get home really late and had work in the morning. It had been a slow night up to that point so I said screw it, let's go. It was a 1.2x surge. $130 fare. With gas and tolls taken out, my net earning was considerably less. I was able to get 2 short trips going south back to Philly using the destination filter that barely covered the tolls I paid on the way back. I ended up calling out from my FT job in the morning and using a vacation day. In hindsight it wasn't worth it. If I ever get another trip like this I'm going to say I need at least $50 cash from the pax to make it worth my while. More if no surge. We can stop at an ATM if they don't have it on them. I'm sure it would still be less than if they hailed a cab. If the pax isn't willing to pay, cancel the trip and they can request another driver. I wonder how Uber would handle it if the pax complained to them about it? Thoughts?


You'll be deactivated.


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## just_me (Feb 20, 2017)

Lelekm said:


> Yep. If a pax complains that a driver asked them to pay cash outside of the app, you bet Uber won't like it. That's going around their system. I would just tell the pax you can't do that ride because you lose money doing it but assure them lots of drivers either haven't figured that out or don't care about losing gas and value on their car for a few pennies in cash. Tell them to request again; some driver will always take a money-losing ride. That's why Uber will always get away with screwing over drivers.


Agreed. And from your previous post, where Uber says: ''However, you may occasionally receive a ride request that is farther than you wish to drive. If this happens, please cancel the trip''. ''Farther than you wish to drive'' can mean a lot of things - like being too tired to make the trip, it would be difficult for the pax to argue against safety; or not having enough time to drive there and back due to a previous engagement. Or, other, etc.

I don't think bringing up the subject of money to the pax is even a smart thing to do in the first place. Outside of it not being professional, it could open up other doors to bad things. 'I need more money up front' is definitely against Uber's policy, as it is going around their system, as Lelekm pointed out. 'It's a money losing trip' may or may not be against Uber policy. I don't know. But after reading another driver's story on this thread about not wanting to leave their state, I can now see how two different Uber CSR interpretations of Uber's policy could work for you or against you.

That's why I'm thinking try and leave money out of the subject all together, when dealing with this money issue and the pax. Uber has given us a way out: 'farther than I wish to drive'. We don't need to explain ourselves further to the pax than 'I'm too tired', or 'don't have the time', etc.


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## TheWanderer (Sep 6, 2016)

Lelekm said:


> So what do you to avoid making money-losing trips? Ask each time where the pax is going, or start the ride and then tell them to get out and cancel it?


I do both. Most of the time I assume they are not leaving the city, which they aren't. Then when I see a ride that is too far at no surge I tell them I can't take them. If they ask why I also explain why.
But this is market specific. Drivers here are 3 minutes or less away. No long eta's.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Sure you can.

Consider THIS beauty (at 4.5x surge no less)...afaik, there is absolutely NO way to get paid for it if you actually completed it.










Then again, of course it was a case of "wrong destination entered".

Still netted me $100ish....and a 1* for my troubles.

Prolly cuz they kept dropping stuff in the car, I expressly told them to check floor, then found some lipstick and other purse junk and called them back for it....and STILL found a phone knocking around sliding on the floor a few blocks later.

Came back and just left it on the doorstep. In retrospect, should have put it under a wheel and run it over instead.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Lelekm said:


> Uber says you can cancel if the destination is farther than you want to drive. This is from the driver app help section (I'm in TX in case this doesn't apply in other states....):





Lelekm said:


> So what do you to avoid making money-losing trips? Ask each time where the pax is going, or start the ride and then tell them to get out and cancel it?


Yeah that's exactly what uber drivers SHOULD do.

The odds of getting scammed on a long trip are too high to justify a large investment of time and money on a giant question mark. Also there is an arbitrary limit to how far you can take an uber. Past that limit there is no guarantee you can restart the trip (you may even be blocked from picking up across state lines for instance.

Then YOU have to kick a customer to the curb somewhere that may or may not have uber service because your insurance also just shut off.

Let's not forget that there's a likelihood of getting scammed as well. What can you do if the customer pulls the cancel scam 100 miles down the road?

All in all.... taking a long trip with uber isn't worth it.

Leave this trips to the taxis, there insurance is far less ambiguous and they can demand a customer pays up front if they are going too far.

Oh you want to go to Miami? sure that will be $550, cash or credit... Oh you don't have $550? GTFO of my taxi!


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Yeah that's exactly what uber drivers SHOULD do.
> 
> The odds of getting scammed on a long trip are too high to justify a large investment of time and money on a giant question mark. Also there is an arbitrary limit to how far you can take an uber. Past that limit there is no guarantee you can restart the trip (you may even be blocked from picking up across state lines for instance.
> 
> ...


The right way to do this: tell the passenger you can't drive that far because you've been driving all day and it wouldn't be safe, but you can take them as far as [limit you have selected] and then transfer them to another driver. They will see that as an enhanced service rather than a refusal, and you will get a ride as long as you care to take out of it. If you want to help a brother out, you can even use the pax app and creep right up on another driver, have the pax ping him right there, and give a friendly wave as he takes his profitable ride without having to drive to a pickup.

What will help to sell this is knowing the rates in the surrounding markets, see if you can find one that's lower and explain to the passenger that you can save them money this way because the rates are cheaper in the place where you're going to transfer them. If they balk at their $550 ride only costing $450, you know they are trying to screw you.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> What will help to sell this is knowing the rates in the surrounding markets, see if you can find one that's lower and explain to the passenger that you can save them money this way because the rates are cheaper in the place where you're going to transfer them. If they balk at their $550 ride only costing $450, you know they are trying to screw you.


The problem is... Orlando has the lowest rates in the country, so ANY stop to transfer or restart the trip or whatever looks like your trying to pull a fast one on them.

And i dropped the ball and left out a couple words, changes the meaning a lot.

Oh you want to go to Miami? sure that will be $550, cash or credit... Oh you don't have $550? GTFO of my taxi!



Squirming Like A Toad said:


> The right way to do this: tell the passenger you can't drive that far because you've been driving all day and it wouldn't be safe, but you can take them as far as [limit you have selected] and then transfer them to another driver. They will see that as an enhanced service rather than a refusal, and you will get a ride as long as you care to take out of it. If you want to help a brother out, you can even use the pax app and creep right up on another driver, have the pax ping him right there, and give a friendly wave as he takes his profitable ride without having to drive to a pickup.


The other problem is Orlando rates are just that bad that it's just not worth it to go any sizable distance. I've run into people who couldn't get an uber to take them across town to the airport in the morning..

















Orlando just isn't terrible rates, it's terrible compared to the next city over.

A funky POS sienna in Canaveral gets more than a lexus In orlando.


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## just_me (Feb 20, 2017)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> The problem is... Orlando has the lowest rates in the country, so ANY stop to transfer or restart the trip or whatever looks like your trying to pull a fast one on them.
> 
> And i dropped the ball and left out a couple words, changes the meaning a lot.
> 
> ...


Wow. An UberX fare from Port Canaveral to Orlando is about 50% more than an UberX fare from Orlando to Port Canaveral. I had no idea that Uber rates varied that much from city to city. Incredible. Thanks for pointing that out. I would have expected some variance in price, sure - but 50%?!!

That's about a 55 mile trip according to Google. I've driven between East Mesa and Buckeye several times before (about 66 miles through the Phoenix metropolitan area), and never thought to see what the rate difference would be going both ways. (I've got some city to city testing to do on my Uber rider app now - lol.)

But one thing about out here though, you would rarely (almost never) dead head one way back. Driving through Phoenix, Tempe, Mesa, will almost always get you a fare/fares - and at all times of the day. So you would make money both ways. Is that the case with Orlando and Port Canaveral? (Just wondering.)


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## JuanMoreTime (Jan 25, 2015)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> The problem is... Orlando has the lowest rates in the country, so ANY stop to transfer or restart the trip or whatever looks like your trying to pull a fast one on them.
> 
> And i dropped the ball and left out a couple words, changes the meaning a lot.
> 
> ...


What's up with the "w/car seat" rates? Are there drivers that keep a car seat in their cars? I've had pax put a car seat in my car from time to time, but at least in LA I haven't seen any way to say so in the app.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

reaperducer said:


> Here in Las Vegas, all the tourists assume prostitution is legal, but it isn't. You have to go to the next county for that. And in Nevada, the counties are larger than many eastern states.
> 
> The problem is that if you drag a passenger into the desert to a brothel (Like sports? Good, there's a sports-themed brothel 90 minutes out. Like space aliens? The space alien-themed brothel is like four hours away.) you're never going to get a ping for a ride back, so you're talking hundreds of dead miles.
> 
> ...


You make some valid points and not sure how you play this uber game but if i was over there, and even though it is against policy i would of arranged the ride back as if they are going to a brothel that far. i cannot imagine them staying for more than a few hours at most and 2 monster fares vs 25 min fares or under $10 rides makes me feel like i just left a brothel lol

I personally always carry a tablet with movies for the rare situations like this as they make awesome earning days with only a few pax.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

JuanMoreTime said:


> What's up with the "w/car seat" rates? Are there drivers that keep a car seat in their cars? I've had pax put a car seat in my car from time to time, but at least in LA I haven't seen any way to say so in the app.


Florida law requires carseats, for the most part Uber ignores it but in Orlando the driver gets a flat $10 for having a car seat and being willing to go farther to pick them up. It's a tradeoff as the drivers usually have to come farther.



just_me said:


> Wow. An UberX fare from Port Canaveral to Orlando is about 50% more than an UberX fare from Orlando to Port Canaveral. I had no idea that Uber rates varied that much from city to city. Incredible. Thanks for pointing that out. I would have expected some variance in price, sure - but 50%?!!
> 
> That's about a 55 mile trip according to Google. I've driven between East Mesa and Buckeye several times before (about 66 miles through the Phoenix metropolitan area), and never thought to see what the rate difference would be going both ways. (I've got some city to city testing to do on my Uber rider app now - lol.)
> 
> But one thing about out here though, you would rarely (almost never) dead head one way back. Driving through Phoenix, Tempe, Mesa, will almost always get you a fare/fares - and at all times of the day. So you would make money both ways. Is that the case with Orlando and Port Canaveral? (Just wondering.)


Here's the deal at the port, the ships come in empty out in the morning and they rush clean the rooms of departing passengers, several HOURS pass THEN you have people arriving in the afternoon. Then the ship departs,

So by the time you drop off everyone is already gone and tons and tons of cars also just dropped off within X feet of you.

And there arn't many cruise arrivals on a daily basis anyway...

On top of that there also a LOT of people trying to go that way because they are in the exact same boat (pun intended) that you are.

What your left with is a glut of drivers near the port, a situation of learning an area your not familiar with gambling for a destination trip back to Orlando, or simply turning around. The thing about port Canaveral to Orlando trips is they either go ALL the way or NONE of the way. There's really nothing between Canaveral and the Orlando airport. So you can't use destination trips to hop scotch back.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Coachman said:


> I've canceled once or twice headed to a pickup late night when I got uncomfortable with the neighborhood. But I've never canceled a ride after it's started because of the address.


I've canceled twice because of long trips. The first was mid afternoon and she was going to San Francisco airport, about 1.5 hours away, without traffic. Rush hour was about to hit. This would have been 4-5 hour roundtrip. I lied and told her I had to pick up my kids at 4pm. She was ok with it. Canceled and told her to request a new ride.

The next was at 11:30pm, right before surge. Young lady wanted to go an hour away. I'm an XL driver and this was just x. And I was going to miss a good surge. Again, I lied and told her I was only doing short trips because I was about to call it a night and couldn't handle that long drive. Took her to a gas station and told her she could wait in my car until new car arrives.
Funny thing is she gave me a 5 star right there and then before requesting new Uber. Probably because I was right there. haha.
I also contacted Uber and had them refund the fare.

Cancels roll off after 7 days, and since I don't drive all the time, I usually start at 0% cancelation rate. So I don't worry about it too much.



Squirming Like A Toad said:


> I think the point was it was supposed to be a gig, one that would attract people who don't have the same character as full time taxi drivers and work in places that are not well served by taxis.


That *WAS *the point. Now it's just survival.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Lee239 said:


> Some pax think we are required to make as many stops as they want for however long they want too.
> 
> Why would you not want to go to a certain place, like a bad neighborhood?
> 
> ...


I've driven a cab for 10 years in L.A in some rough neighborhoods. It's never really that bad, just keep your guard up and you'll be okay.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> I've driven a cab for 10 years in L.A in some rough neighborhoods. It's never really that bad, just keep your guard up and you'll be okay.


I agree, the bigger threat to your life is just driving that car everyday you do uber


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## Jon E (Feb 15, 2017)

pismire said:


> You will get deactivated for this.


My cancellation rate is usually above 20%.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Jon E said:


> My cancellation rate is usually above 20%.


I think it depends on the type of cancels too. I am consistently in the 20s but most of mine are accidental accepting in x mode and the canceling within 3 seconds with do not charge rider. Combined with legit rider no shows.


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## Jon E (Feb 15, 2017)

Maybe. Majority of my cancellations are Rider no show. I wait 5:01 then cancel. Occasionally I'll have a destination or I just don't wanna take this cancellation and use do not charge Rider.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

-slowly walks away from thread-


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## Andretti (Jan 14, 2017)

Lelekm said:


> Yep. If a pax complains that a driver asked them to pay cash outside of the app, you bet Uber won't like it. That's going around their system. I would just tell the pax you can't do that ride because you lose money doing it but assure them lots of drivers either haven't figured that out or don't care about losing gas and value on their car for a few pennies in cash. Tell them to request again; some driver will always take a money-losing ride. That's why Uber will always get away with screwing over drivers.


I would do what you do, but I would not mention "losing money", but rather say your shift is ending. Taxis in my city did this all the time back in the day, when they didn't like the looks of the pax or their destination.

Depending on location, time of day, the rider's demeanor, weather, and other factors, I would offer the pax to remain in my car until the replacement car arrives.

That's exactly what I did the only time I ever turn down a long drive (originating near my house after I returned home at 4:00a after a long night in the city).



Squirming Like A Toad said:


> The right way to do this: tell the passenger you can't drive that far because you've been driving all day and it wouldn't be safe, but you can take them as far as [limit you have selected] and then transfer them to another driver. They will see that as an enhanced service rather than a refusal, and you will get a ride as long as you care to take out of it. If you want to help a brother out, you can even use the pax app and creep right up on another driver, have the pax ping him right there, and give a friendly wave as he takes his profitable ride without having to drive to a pickup.
> 
> What will help to sell this is knowing the rates in the surrounding markets, see if you can find one that's lower and explain to the passenger that you can save them money this way because the rates are cheaper in the place where you're going to transfer them. If they balk at their $550 ride only costing $450, you know they are trying to screw you.


I appreciate the sentiment here, but the problem is by taking the ride you've now left yourself open to a low rating.

However, I might risk it if the pax was going in my direction. For example, back home to my burb from the city, or to the city when I'm heading in.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

I'm done caring about the ratings, as long as they're not outrageously low it means nothing. I'm at 4.7 with no verbal complaints.

A ride to where you were heading anyway, yeah that's gold no matter how long it is. If we were sure we could get that I don't think anyone would have an objection to driving anywhere. Only problem is destination rides are hard to get on Uber, I've driven for a couple of hours with the filter on and nothing. I'd be happy to give Uber a bigger cut on a destination ride as long as I actually get the ride, maybe someone should suggest that to them.


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## Tihstae (Jan 31, 2017)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> I'd be happy to give Uber a bigger cut on a destination ride as long as I actually get the ride, maybe someone should suggest that to them.


I vehemently disagree with this. Uber needs to raise driver pay not find more ways to lower it.


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## Mooncookie (May 13, 2017)

Hi, I'm still in the process of applying, and I think I misunderstood something. I thought that the Uber app at least showed you the destination of the pax so that you can decide if you want to go that far or not. I live in the high desert in CA and a trip t LAX is something I would only want to do once a week due to the wear on your car coming up that hill. So when do we find out where the person is going?


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

Mooncookie said:


> Hi, I'm still in the process of applying, and I think I misunderstood something. I thought that the Uber app at least showed you the destination of the pax so that you can decide if you want to go that far or not. I live in the high desert in CA and a trip t LAX is something I would only want to do once a week due to the wear on your car coming up that hill. So when do we find out where the person is going?


The destination shows up after they're in your car and you start the trip. They get in, and that's when you are supposed to slide across the "start trip" button, which is when you see where you are going.


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## Delilah5 (Mar 20, 2017)

dirtylee said:


> I'm not sure if I've seen this covered anywhere on UP.NET. I have always operated on the basis that if I really don't want to go certain places, I just cxl. Some pax think we have to take them no matter what.
> 
> Has it ever been an issue to anyone? Do you know anyone that has been Wait listed or deactivated by uber for refusing because of destination?


Does that same rule apply to not going to certain locations for pick up? Maybe picking up in bad location and going to good location.

The fact is almost every trip is random and we have no ides where the people are going. Or picking up in good location and dropping off in bad location, which is very common.


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## Lelekm (Apr 12, 2017)

Delilah5 said:


> Or picking up in good location and dropping off in bad location, which is very common.


Like whenever rich kids go buy drugs. Ha ha ha


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## sidemouse (Apr 2, 2017)

I find the real problem with a cancel is that it won't send the request to the next available driver, guess that makes too much sense? Instead when a driver cancels that's the end of it for that rider... Granted the rider can put in a whole new request but do you have any idea what kind of negative effect this has?

See, cancelling a ride may make you feel good, it may be in your right and it may even be totally in your best interest...
Doesn't mean it's good for business, certainly not in the long run.

Now, as to why the Uber app couldn't just seamlessly process the cancel and re-send the request to the next available driver while keeping the entire affair invisible from the rider, that I couldn't tell you.


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## Steve appleby (May 30, 2015)

I do it all the time. i'd rather get deactivated then to get robbed at gunpoint. I tell them get out im not driving down there. no one will force me to drive. I live in Maryland and anyone going to west Baltimore I will refuse. if uber or lyft say anything about that I just tell them I refuse the ride out of safety concerns.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Steve appleby said:


> I do it all the time. i'd rather get deactivated then to get robbed at gunpoint.


We're uber drivers. The most valuable thing they can take from our cars are the waters and mints.


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

PrestonT said:


> ...You don't have to be online for the write-off. You just have to be driving in connection with the income you are writing off. Going offline to move to a better location is still business miles.


I think the IRS would disagree



nickd8775 said:


> That would be a great trip for you. Just do that one trip and be done


A great trip ? Really ? Been doing this long ? Let's see here; A 6+ hour roundtrip for apx. $60. minus the return gas, the wear and tear on the vehicle ( and yourself ), possibly no pick-up in NYC ( more than likely )....dead miles and an entire shift wasted for pennies..etc, etc, etc.....Yeah, GREAT trip



Cableguynoe said:


> We're uber drivers. The most valuable thing they can take from our cars are the waters and mints.


They may take my waters and my mints, but they'll have to pry my Febreeze from my cold dead fingers


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

UberMensch3000 said:


> I think the IRS would disagree


I don't think they would. Driving from home to a starting point before going online is a commute. Going offline midshift to move to a concert venue before it lets out is still working miles.


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## UberMensch3000 (Jun 10, 2017)

Lelekm said:


> Like whenever rich kids go buy drugs. Ha ha ha


Did a run from Greenwich up to New Haven....Sh*t neighborhood. Thought it was a drop-off, then one kid says "hey I'm gonna change the destination back to where you picked us up, OK ?? " One kid runs in and comes back out 2 minutes later........Back down to Greenwich....I let it slide as I "thought" there might be some coin involved.....Nope.......Won't let that happen again


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