# DD deactivated me



## ConkeyCrack

It says they didn't find any "security issues or potential violations" . When I appeal, they send me an email saying they found a violation on my account but won't give specifics. I have no idea why I have been deactivated. I did everything by the book. The only reason I can think is that I would consistently decline d0g$#!+ Offers. Hey DD! WHAT GIVES?!?!?


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## Launchpad McQuack

This is my favorite part.



DoorDash said:


> If you believe your account was incorrectly deactivated, you can provide details and relevant information for us to review.


How can I provide "relevant information" if you won't tell me why you deactivated me? How do I know what information is relevant?

I got the exact same treatment from GrubHub. They deactivated me in March 2021 because "we detected activity on your account which is often associated with fraud." They gave me the option to submit any "relevant information" for their investigation within 48 hours of my deactivation and game me an e-mail address to send it to. Because I had no idea what fraudulent activity they were supposedly "investigating," I sent them anything that I could think of that had happened recently that might be considered questionable. A delivery that took a long time because the customer gave vague delivery instructions for a large building with multiple entrances. A restaurant that made me wait a long time for an order. Anything I could think of. I never got any response from GrubHub.........not that I was expecting to. I've read the stories from others on this forum.


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## FL_Steve

DD deactivated me, "because you repeatedly failed to complete orders you accepted in a timely manner". I really don't care. No regrets. My contract violations were arriving to the restaurant late. I did that intentionally because I knew I would be waiting at the restaurants for 10 minutes so why not finish a UE order instead of waiting and being paid nothing? FUHHCCKK DoorDash. I'm only delivering part-time now, mostly GrubHub, which pays a lot better and never gives me the insulting offers I got from DD or UE.


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## Ms. Mercenary

1. Were you using any widgets/apps to find out the real payout amount?
2. What was your CANCELLATION score (not AR).


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## Nats121

ConkeyCrack said:


> It says they didn't find any "security issues or potential violations" . When I appeal, they send me an email saying they found a violation on my account but won't give specifics. I have no idea why I have been deactivated. I did everything by the book. The only reason I can think is that I would consistently decline d0g$#!+ Offers. Hey DD! WHAT GIVES?!?!?
> View attachment 674002
> View attachment 674003


It's long overdue for the govt to step in and set up independent review boards that give drivers a legitimate opportunity to defend themselves when accused of "violations". The kangaroo courts have to go.


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## Rickos69

ConkeyCrack said:


> It says they didn't find any "security issues or potential violations" . When I appeal, they send me an email saying they found a violation on my account but won't give specifics. I have no idea why I have been deactivated. I did everything by the book. The only reason I can think is that I would consistently decline d0g$#!+ Offers. Hey DD! WHAT GIVES?!?!?
> View attachment 674002
> View attachment 674003


Hey Conkey, I really am sorry to hear that.
When one person gets deactivated, it hits us all where it hurts.


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## ConkeyCrack

Ms. Mercenary said:


> 1. Were you using any widgets/apps to find out the real payout amount?
> 2. What was your CANCELLATION score (not AR).


I don't have access to that information but my AR wasn't very good. I would rarely cancel because if I accepted, that means it was a trip worth my time. I just wished they gave me a reason so I can sleep easy knowing why I was deactivated


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## ConkeyCrack

FL_Steve said:


> DD deactivated me, "because you repeatedly failed to complete orders you accepted in a timely manner". I really don't care. No regrets. My contract violations were arriving to the restaurant late. I did that intentionally because I knew I would be waiting at the restaurants for 10 minutes so why not finish a UE order instead of waiting and being paid nothing? FUHHCCKK DoorDash. I'm only delivering part-time now, mostly GrubHub, which pays a lot better and never gives me the insulting offers I got from DD or UE.


At least they gave you a reason. I may never know why I was deactivated


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## Nats121

ConkeyCrack said:


> At least they gave you a reason. I may never know why I was deactivated


Is arbitration an option?


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## ConkeyCrack

Nats121 said:


> Is arbitration an option?


Ha! No.


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## Uberdriver2710

Sorry for your loss. 

I would sign up right away, for one of the many other apps.


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## Invisible

Sorry this happened to you! It is wrong for this gigs to deactivate and not have proof or provide drivers with more information. And that’s why I agree with @Nats121 that government regulation is needed.

Yet even with companies and states that have right to work, companies can let you go for any reason, similar to how these gigs deactivate. But gig work is just more unstable.

it doesn’t feel like it now, but trust me, things will work out better for you than you realize. Hang in there!


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## Nats121

Rickos69 said:


> Hey Conkey, I really am sorry to hear that.
> When one person gets deactivated, it hits us all where it hurts.


Years ago when these "gig" companies were just getting started, Travis Kalanick, "libertarians" , and others hostile to workers' rights touted gig work as the "future" of employment. 

Of course this was about 50 pay cuts and a zillion "deactivations" ago.

If Travis and the others ever turn out to be correct, you can kiss the middle class goodbye because the US will be just another Third World backwater with a few rich people and most of the rest poor.


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## Nats121

Invisible said:


> Sorry this happened to you! It is wrong for this gigs to deactivate and not have proof or provide drivers with more information. And that’s why I agree with @Nats121 that government regulation is needed.
> 
> Yet even with companies and states that have right to work, companies can let you go for any reason, similar to how these gigs deactivate. But gig work is just more unstable.
> 
> it doesn’t feel like it now, but trust me, things will work out better for you than you realize. Hang in there!


But even with right-to-work there's still unemployment insurance for most terminated workers. (It's not easy for companies to contest UI claims).

Right now it costs the gig companies ZERO to fire their drivers. If they had to pay for UI they wouldn't be so quick to fire their drivers because to do so would raise their UI premiums.


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## Invisible

Nats121 said:


> But even with right-to-work there's still unemployment insurance for most terminated workers. (It's not easy for companies to contest UI claims).
> 
> Right now it costs the gig companies ZERO to fire their drivers. If they had to pay for UI they wouldn't be so quick to fire their drivers because to do so would raise their UI premiums.


Excellent point. And that’s what makes the gigs so unstable since there’s no protection.


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## Nats121

Invisible said:


> Excellent point. And that’s what makes the gigs so unstable since there’s no protection.


Not only are gig jobs unstable as far as termination is concerned, they're also unstable in their pay to the drivers.

Gig drivers never know from one day to the next whether or not the companies are going to cut their pay yet again. How many burger flippers, factory workers, accountants, etc. are being paid 1/3 of what they were 9 years ago? None.

Gig worker pay rates are 1/3 or even less than they were in 2013.

You can't maintain a middle class with that type of employment.


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## Ms. Mercenary

ConkeyCrack said:


> I don't have access to that information but my AR wasn't very good. I would rarely cancel because if I accepted, that means it was a trip worth my time. I just wished they gave me a reason so I can sleep easy knowing why I was deactivated


I don’t think it’s the AR. I’m habitually at 0%. Whopping 1% as we speak.


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## Seamus

@ConkeyCrack , you still doing UE? Have you signed up for GH?

Sorry to hear that, I’d like to see one of those desk jockeys at DD get out and spend a day delivering in Manhattan And deal with all you have to deal with!


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## Nats121

Ms. Mercenary said:


> I don’t think it’s the AR. I’m habitually at 0%. Whopping 1% as we speak.


What do you think it is?

DD's behavior towards the drivers varies by market, specifically by how saturated a market is with drivers.

DD's behavior towards the drivers will likely be harsher in markets in which drivers are tripping over each other than in markets in which drivers are harder to come by.


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## Nats121

Seamus said:


> @ConkeyCrack , you still doing UE? Have you signed up for GH?
> 
> Sorry to hear that, I’d like to see one of those desk jockeys at DD get out and spend a day delivering in Manhattan And deal with all you have to deal with!


If you're looking for people with souls and empathy at the gig companies you'll probably have to limit your search to the people in the custodial and food service staffs.


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## Tom2323

ConkeyCrack said:


> It says they didn't find any "security issues or potential violations" . When I appeal, they send me an email saying they found a violation on my account but won't give specifics. I have no idea why I have been deactivated. I did everything by the book. The only reason I can think is that I would consistently decline d0g$#!+ Offers. Hey DD! WHAT GIVES?!?!?
> View attachment 674002
> View attachment 674003


So they stole your earnings for the week???


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## Ms. Mercenary

Nats121 said:


> What do you think it is?
> 
> DD's behavior towards the drivers varies by market, specifically by how saturated a market is with drivers.
> 
> DD's behavior towards the drivers will likely be harsher in markets in which drivers are tripping over each other than in markets in which drivers are harder to come by.


Plenty of Dashers in my market. I just don’t think it’s the AR. Maybe someone said they didn’t get their food?

It’s hard for me to say with DD. My brain doesn’t function that way. I’m sarcastic, true; but overall I’m a decent human being. DD - not so much.


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## Invisible

Nats121 said:


> Not only are gig jobs unstable as far as termination is concerned, they're also unstable in their pay to the drivers.
> 
> Gig drivers never know from one day to the next whether or not the companies are going to cut their pay yet again. How many burger flippers, factory workers, accountants, etc. are being paid 1/3 of what they were 9 years ago? None.
> 
> Gig worker pay rates are 1/3 or even less than they were in 2013.
> 
> You can't maintain a middle class with that type of employment.


Since the Great Recession, many industries lowered their pay for new hires. I totally understand your point though. Each year with the gigs, the pay went down & down.. So for me, I could no longer survive with the current rates. I also wasn’t in a huge city like Chicago. This ridiculous and unwarranted deactivations are infuriating!


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## Nats121

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Plenty of Dashers in my market. I just don’t think it’s the AR. Maybe someone said they didn’t get their food?


It could be that some lying a-hole/s said they didn't get their orders. But if that's the case DD's changed their MO because in the past they'd tell the drivers they were being fired for failing to complete deliveries.


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## Ms. Mercenary

Maybe it is the AR. They just don’t want to say it, because technically that shouldn’t matter. I do believe there was something about the AR in the agreement along the lines of “though it doesn’t matter, in some cases when it impacts overall DD functioning…” Manhattan’s a tough market though. One would think they’d like to hold onto high-rated dashers.


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## Trafficat

The arbitrary deactivations suck but no one has any right to deliver. If the companies had to pay out unemployment, the fact is they wouldn't have hired you most likely to begin with. If you feel otherwise, what's stopping you from getting a real job? The fact is you chose to be a gig worker. Either because you needed the flexibility or you couldn't make the cut as a regular employee.

Require unemployment and bye-bye flexibility and hello job interviews and resume reviews.


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## Trafficat

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Maybe it is the AR. They just don’t want to say it, because technically that shouldn’t matter. I do believe there was something about the AR in the agreement along the lines of “though it doesn’t matter, in some cases when it impacts overall DD functioning…” Manhattan’s a tough market though. One would think they’d like to hold onto high-rated dashers.


Could be. If so it is stupid. 90%+ of offers don't even or barely cover gas expenses in my area, let alone something that resembles reasonable compensation. I guess if I cannot cherry pick the offers that are actually profitable, I don't want to do the job anyways.


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## jaxbeachrides

I was looking at the software icons you had open on your phone to see if maybe that was related.

Not really sure what their parameters are, I can say they are not worth it except for the 10% cash back on gas which ends next week.

Not patronizing or whatever but they did approve 2 accounts for me which was a total accident, I used both my emails by mistake and only used the first one approved. If you want them back so bad it might work.


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## Tom2323

Trafficat said:


> The arbitrary deactivations suck but no one has any right to deliver. If the companies had to pay out unemployment, the fact is they wouldn't have hired you most likely to begin with. If you feel otherwise, what's stopping you from getting a real job? The fact is you chose to be a gig worker. Either because you needed the flexibility or you couldn't make the cut as a regular employee.
> 
> Require unemployment and bye-bye flexibility and hello job interviews and resume reviews.


I agree, companies have the right to terminate their contractors but what I find unacceptable is stealing his earnings for the week too!!! Is that not disgusting? How low can DD can really go grabbing some meager earnings from an already underpaid gig worker  there should be some recourse for such unethical thing.


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## Trafficat

I would sue in small claims court or if you didn't opt out, go for arbitration. My guess is it could result in a settlement for the stolen wages or possibly even reactivation. Arbitration is not cheap.

I always opt out of arbitration.


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## rideshareapphero

Were you multiapping and force closing the app so that they weren't able to track your location while you were picking up elsewhere?


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## Nats121

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Maybe it is the AR. They just don’t want to say it, because technically that shouldn’t matter. I do believe there was something about the AR in the agreement along the lines of “though it doesn’t matter, in some cases when it impacts overall DD functioning…”


That "functioning" line seems to ring a bell.

I remember around 3 or 4 years ago DD also had this little clause buried in the mouse print that said "unusually low AR could be an indicator of FRAUD".

As you know the gig companies use the word "fraud" often as a sort of "get out of jail free" card to try to basically do whatever they want. In this case the purpose is to break the "understanding" that drivers won't be terminated due to low AR.


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## 234267

I think the DD people are some of the worst I have dealt with. 

In my region, there was a waiting list to become a dasher. So I got on the list. This was after a very long process to sign up...it seems that my phone number had been used by someone else before I got the phone so they wouldn't take my word for it that the phone number was for a new person right off the bat. I don't recall what got them to change their mind but whatever--I was notified the other day that they needed me. I got a text messge. YAY!!!! I navigated from the link in the text message to a website. The website began to open...the little blue status line near the top of the IPHONE screen creeped across quickly....then it started doing it again....and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again... I finally navigated away from it--I had to close the window because it would just keep doing it in the background. I went back to messages and told them what happened. The next day...I get the same link. I tried it again. The same thing happened. I told them again. The next day...the same message. I just gave up.


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## Seamus

ConkeyCrack said:


> It says they didn't find any "security issues or potential violations" . When I appeal, they send me an email saying they found a violation on my account but won't give specifics. I have no idea why I have been deactivated. I did everything by the book. The only reason I can think is that I would consistently decline d0g$#!+ Offers. Hey DD! WHAT GIVES?!?!?
> View attachment 674002
> View attachment 674003


Thank God they already paid me that referral bonus for convincing you to sign up!


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## Seamus

Trafficat said:


> The arbitrary deactivations suck but no one has any right to deliver. If the companies had to pay out unemployment, the fact is they wouldn't have hired you most likely to begin with. If you feel otherwise, what's stopping you from getting a real job? The fact is you chose to be a gig worker. Either because you needed the flexibility or you couldn't make the cut as a regular employee.
> 
> Require unemployment and bye-bye flexibility and hello job interviews and resume reviews.


Someone has a “Bee in their Bonnet”!


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## Rickos69

This is from another board. Thoughts?

*Multiapping = Random deactivation*

Every 5 secs, you GPS location is recorded by doordash. Every month, doordash randomly selects a few orders from your last month delivery and runs a “route checker” program on them.
If irregularity is detected, these orders will be sent to fraud team for manual review. The reviewer will replay your trip and make the decision
That’s why you get deactivated without explanations


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## Ms. Mercenary

Rickos69 said:


> This is from another board. Thoughts?
> 
> *Multiapping = Random deactivation*
> 
> Every 5 secs, you GPS location is recorded by doordash. Every month, doordash randomly selects a few orders from your last month delivery and runs a “route checker” program on them.
> If irregularity is detected, these orders will be sent to fraud team for manual review. The reviewer will replay your trip and make the decision
> That’s why you get deactivated without explanations


Interesting. I usually pause dash when I multi-app. So I should be ok, knock on wood. I think only once did I do a double from different apps.

But this is again just a rumor. I think all gig apps should just be more transparent.


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## Nats121

Rickos69 said:


> This is from another board. Thoughts?
> 
> *Multiapping = Random deactivation*
> 
> Every 5 secs, you GPS location is recorded by doordash. Every month, doordash randomly selects a few orders from your last month delivery and runs a “route checker” program on them.
> If irregularity is detected, these orders will be sent to fraud team for manual review. The reviewer will replay your trip and make the decision
> That’s why you get deactivated without explanations


"Independent contractor" my ass. The REAL "fraud" is our classification as ICs. Multi-apping in of itself is not fraud, even if a driver delivers the food late because of it. In that case the driver is guilty of poor service, not fraud.

As I said to Ms.Mercenary in a previous post, these POS gig companies use the term "fraud" as a "get out of jail free" card to give themselves carte blanche to do whatever they want. 

As alleged ICs it should be none of DD's business what drivers do so long as they get the food delivered on time and in good condition (assuming they received the order in good condition from the restaurant)

A little-known provision in Prop 22 allows the delivery companies to ban multi-apping. What a joke.

Do you know if this info came directly from Doordash? Do you have a link to the original thread?


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## Nats121

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Interesting. I usually pause dash when I multi-app. So I should be ok, knock on wood. I think only once did I do a double from different apps.
> 
> But this is again just a rumor. I think all gig apps should just be more transparent.


I do multiple deliveries from multiple companies simultaneously when the logistics allow it, and so long as I'm on time it's none of the companies' business.


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## Seamus

Rickos69 said:


> This is from another board. Thoughts?
> 
> *Multiapping = Random deactivation*
> 
> Every 5 secs, you GPS location is recorded by doordash. Every month, doordash randomly selects a few orders from your last month delivery and runs a “route checker” program on them.
> If irregularity is detected, these orders will be sent to fraud team for manual review. The reviewer will replay your trip and make the decision
> That’s why you get deactivated without explanations


Doubt it. Yesterday I went out 11 to 2 and like always multi apped.

Got a $13 DD offer I took. While getting that one I got a $9 GH offer right on the way. $13 turns to $22. Picking up the GH order I got a second one, $11 Same general direction but maybe 5 minutes off.

That‘s how $13 turns to $33!!! It’s way too lucrative to multi app to ever stop. I’ve been doing it since 2017 and never a problem Or any issue with DD, GH, or UE. It’s important to note that all three were ON TIME. I don’t think they care less as long as the deliveries are ON TIME. In 3 hours yesterday I did $93, there is no way to do that except thru multi apping.


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## ConkeyCrack

Seamus said:


> @ConkeyCrack , you still doing UE? Have you signed up for GH?
> 
> Sorry to hear that, I’d like to see one of those desk jockeys at DD get out and spend a day delivering in Manhattan And deal with all you have to deal with!


Yea I still do UE but it's pretty slow because it's summer time. I signed up for GH last year and still no word


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## ConkeyCrack

Tom2323 said:


> So they stole your earnings for the week???


No I had nothing in my earnings thank god


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## Ms. Mercenary

Seamus said:


> In 3 hours yesterday I did $93, there is no way to do that except thru multi apping.


Oh shuddup! 😂😂😂


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## Ms. Mercenary

Seriously though - not everyone can multiapp like Seamus. I can’t. If I try, I’ll likely be late for at least one. So in my case I only might attempt same-store going in the same direction.


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## Invisible

Seamus said:


> Doubt it. Yesterday I went out 11 to 2 and like always multi apped.
> 
> Got a $13 DD offer I took. While getting that one I got a $9 GH offer right on the way. $13 turns to $22. Picking up the GH order I got a second one, $11 Same general direction but maybe 5 minutes off.
> 
> That‘s how $13 turns to $33!!! It’s way too lucrative to multi app to ever stop. I’ve been doing it since 2017 and never a problem Or any issue with DD, GH, or UE. It’s important to note that all three were ON TIME. I don’t think they care less as long as the deliveries are ON TIME. In 3 hours yesterday I did $93, there is no way to do that except thru multi apping.


I multi-app’d, too, but not as much as you. I remember one time it worked perfectly where the pickup was at same restaurant and drop off was a mile from each other. I wonder if there is a clause prohibiting it for new drivers now. 

What’s irks me about these apps is when I got notification my order was late. How could that be when they never gave a time it was due? And the lateness wasn’t from me, but from waiting at the restaurant.


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## Rickos69

Nats121 said:


> "Independent contractor" my ass. The REAL "fraud" is our classification as ICs. Multi-apping in of itself is not fraud, even if a driver delivers the food late because of it. In that case the driver is guilty of poor service, not fraud.
> 
> As I said to Ms.Mercenary in a previous post, these POS gig companies use the term "fraud" as a "get out of jail free" card to give themselves carte blanche to do whatever they want.
> 
> As alleged ICs it should be none of DD's business what drivers do so long as they get the food delivered on time and in good condition (assuming they received the order in good condition from the restaurant)
> 
> A little-known provision in Prop 22 allows the delivery companies to ban multi-apping. What a joke.
> 
> Do you know if this info came directly from Doordash? Do you have a link to the original thread?


Here is the link to the original post.
A lot of responses since its posting questioning its validity.

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash_drivers/comments/wx7u6j


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## Invisible

Rickos69 said:


> Here is the link to the original post.
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash_drivers/comments/wx7u6j


Since it on Reddit and not officially on DD site, I’d almost don’t believe it. It’s not like that Reddit subforum was started by DD.


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## Ms. Mercenary

Invisible said:


> Since it on Reddit and not officially on DD site, I’d almost don’t believe it. It’s not like that Reddit subforum was started by DD.


Right. Because DD is so Straightforward and transparent.

Thing is, they have no grounds to forbid multi-apping, yet they don’t want us working for competitors, either. Something like that is right up their alley.


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## Buckiemohawk

Not one person has ever emailed about getting legislation in place So that companies cant do this and have to pay drivers a reall deilivery fee


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## Gone_in_60_seconds

Seamus said:


> Doubt it. Yesterday I went out 11 to 2 and like always multi apped.
> 
> Got a $13 DD offer I took. While getting that one I got a $9 GH offer right on the way. $13 turns to $22. Picking up the GH order I got a second one, $11 Same general direction but maybe 5 minutes off.
> 
> That‘s how $13 turns to $33!!! It’s way too lucrative to multi app to ever stop. I’ve been doing it since 2017 and never a problem Or any issue with DD, GH, or UE. It’s important to note that all three were ON TIME. I don’t think they care less as long as the deliveries are ON TIME. In 3 hours yesterday I did $93, there is no way to do that except thru multi apping.


Does Uber show a stated time of when an order has to be delivered? How do you know if you completed the delivery on time? And, with Uber the customers can see your car on the map, so it may be difficult to deviate and not drive toward the customer from the restaurant?


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## Invisible

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Right. Because DD is so Straightforward and transparent.
> 
> Thing is, they have no grounds to forbid multi-apping, yet they don’t want us working for competitors, either. Something like that is right up their alley.


Of course they don’t want multi-aping but that doesn’t mean DD created that Reddit subforum. It was created most likely by a driver.


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## Seamus

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Does Uber show a stated time of when an order has to be delivered? How do you know if you completed the delivery on time? And, with Uber the customers can see your car on the map, so it may be difficult to deviate and not drive toward the customer from the restaurant?


Only DD and GH show the time to be on time. I don’t even do you UE anymore because they are such garbage in my market. But when I did I would deliver the UE order last and gave preference to DD and GH Because I had no idea of the time it was due to the customer and I couldn’t care less if they deactivated me.


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## Ms. Mercenary

Invisible said:


> Of course they don’t want multi-aping but that doesn’t mean DD created that Reddit subforum. It was created most likely by a driver.


Or a whistleblower.


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## Invisible

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Or a whistleblower.


Possibly but then you’d suddenly here of many deactivations because many multi-app.

I personally always thought tthat all these gigs do something similar to spin the wheel and randomly decide which one to deactivate. It’s like a game to them.

The biggest game they’re all paying is how low can we go.


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## dnlbaboof

Doordash is awful. Only 10% of people rate so any low rating gets you close to deactivation, on top of it I don't think they tell customers if an extra order is added to the route so customers think you are just delaying for no reason and downrate you. They are much worse than Uber eats.


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## Alltel77

Well that sucks. Maybe a customer made up a false serious allegation and DD just deactivated you. They claim to "investigate" such things but seriously what are they going to be able to prove from a call center in Manila or wherever they are based out of in the US. So rather than make accusations and run a risk they deactivate the dasher. I'm not saying it's right by any means but could be what happened. Anyways, sorry to hear that happened.


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## Tom2323

Seamus said:


> Doubt it. Yesterday I went out 11 to 2 and like always multi apped.
> 
> Got a $13 DD offer I took. While getting that one I got a $9 GH offer right on the way. $13 turns to $22. Picking up the GH order I got a second one, $11 Same general direction but maybe 5 minutes off.
> 
> That‘s how $13 turns to $33!!! It’s way too lucrative to multi app to ever stop. I’ve been doing it since 2017 and never a problem Or any issue with DD, GH, or UE. It’s important to note that all three were ON TIME. I don’t think they care less as long as the deliveries are ON TIME. In 3 hours yesterday I did $93, there is no way to do that except thru multi apping.


I multiapp all the time with rideshare, DD is way more reliable on DF than Uber, set the area where i live in when on the other side of town and matches me with deliveries on the way. The only way i do it, refuse a lot of orders too.


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## justascientist

Trafficat said:


> I would sue in small claims court or if you didn't opt out, go for arbitration. My guess is it could result in a settlement for the stolen wages or possibly even reactivation. Arbitration is not cheap.
> 
> I always opt out of arbitration.


This is why they won't give him any information. They fear what they are doing is unethical, so they don't want him to have any ammo for a lawsuit. Non-falsifiable rejection. It's actually common. It's very common when there's censorship, too. (An entity won't give you the reason your content was censored because, deep down, they know they are lying.)


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## mrmikecoop4000

ConkeyCrack said:


> It says they didn't find any "security issues or potential violations" . When I appeal, they send me an email saying they found a violation on my account but won't give specifics. I have no idea why I have been deactivated. I did everything by the book. The only reason I can think is that I would consistently decline d0g$#!+ Offers. Hey DD! WHAT GIVES?!?!?
> View attachment 674002
> View attachment 674003


What was your acceptance rate? It happened to a friend of mines. We believe it was her acceptance rate of 11% 🥴


----------



## joecochran1737

Just start a new account with a different email address. DD doesn't really care.


----------



## justascientist

Trafficat said:


> The arbitrary deactivations suck but no one has any right to deliver.


It depends on many factors if this is true. Their ads don't even say "You can apply" they imply you can be your own boss. I'm not an expert on employment law but I know of stories where companies fabricated elaborate rationales to remove someone taking multiple years. Why this company doesn't need to one bit would seem out of place with other companies even taking into consideration that he was a contractor.

What if the reason is that someone thought he looks creepy being the only older white male instead of any of the other ethnicities they are used to?

What if the reason is that the OP is publishing anti-government stuff on a blog when not working and they want to cut him off financially?


----------



## Rideshare drv

I believe it is time for lawsuit against these apps.
they are getting away with murder and nothing is done about it.
they can punish you for not taking b.s. orders by putting you on a timeout status and they will not admit to that,
they can take away your hard earn money under false accusations and no one does anything about it, they can pause or even log you out while you are working in your schedule for no reason. they can deactivate you for no reason and if there is one they will not tell you.
they will send you to deliver an order and get killed and they will not compensate or cover funeral expenses. all they will say (we are sorry our condolences)
DD and GH and just about every gig app out there has taking advantage of drivers by exploiting them by paying starving delivery base pay of under 3.00 dollars for long runs an have shifted the responsibility of paying a decent wage thru customers tips and that is not how it should be but they get away with it, because drivers keeps driving for those apps and if you get deactivated or quit they use marketing tactics to lure new suckers drivers by giving empty promises like (your car is an Atm) (you are the boss) (work when you want)
(set your own hours) (guaranty earning of x amount) and plenty of more lies,
but again it is the drivers fault because we have failed to bring those apps to justice,
we as drivers have failed to call our government official and demand to put an end to this kind of unacceptable business behavior.
you can complain and post all you want but if we do not unite and take a firm stand against these apps they will continue with their rampage of slavery wages and unfair deactivations.


----------



## cabbie1

Nats121 said:


> It's long overdue for the govt to step in and set up independent review boards that give drivers a legitimate opportunity to defend themselves when accused of "violations". The kangaroo courts have to go.


Not going to happen, because these food delivery services are private companies and the government has no control over them. You can be deactivated for any reason they see fit and there is nothing you can do about it. You are not an employee, you are an independent contractor.


----------



## Kmac95

They deactivated me also but I just made a new account and used a new email and phone number


----------



## ConkeyCrack

mrmikecoop4000 said:


> What was your acceptance rate? It happened to a friend of mines. We believe it was her acceptance rate of 11% 🥴


My AR was bloody awful. Don't know exactly what is was but it's on par with your friend. If they deactivated me because my AR, that's fine. Just let me know that's why I was deactivated instead of leaving it a mystery.


----------



## Wil Mette

Launchpad McQuack said:


> This is my favorite part.
> How can I provide "relevant information" if you won't tell me why you deactivated me?


My favorite part is "your current balance will not be paid."
They will not pay him & will not tell him why.

Time to contact Legal Rideshare 








The Rideshare Lawyers™


LegalRideshare is a law firm that focuses exclusively on Uber, Lyft, delivery & gig worker accidents and injuries. Consultations are free.




www.legalrideshare.com


----------



## Wil Mette

Rickos69 said:


> Hey Conkey, I really am sorry to hear that.
> When one person gets deactivated, it hits us all where it hurts.


When one person gets deactivated, it hits us all where it hurts.
When one person gets deactivated and the company steals your earnings, it hits us all where it hurts, twice.


----------



## Wackypete2

Trafficat said:


> I would sue in small claims court or if you didn't opt out, go for arbitration. My guess is it could result in a settlement for the stolen wages or possibly even reactivation. Arbitration is not cheap.
> 
> I always opt out of arbitration.


I agree. Small claims court is the way to go. Many times they won't even show up. If they do show up you will find out why you were deactivated. Ask the judge to see their reasoning. 
Just my opinion here but if they don't show up they had nothing good on you. Tell the judge you want lost wages and reactivation, BUT be prepared. Have as much verifiable information as you can get. Make sure you have a verifiable weekly average of your pay for at least the previous 4 weeks.

Good Luck! 

Peter


----------



## ConkeyCrack

joecochran1737 said:


> Just start a new account with a different email address. DD doesn't really care.


I will try but when I did the onboarding process back in 2019 I believe, they made me go to Brooklyn and had to do the paperwork and background check in person. Hopefully the process is easier this time


----------



## ConkeyCrack

Wackypete2 said:


> I agree. Small claims court is the way to go. Many times they won't even show up. If they do show up you will find out why you were deactivated. Ask the judge to see their reasoning.
> Just my opinion here but if they don't show up they had nothing good on you. Tell the judge you want lost wages and reactivation, BUT be prepared. Have as much verifiable information as you can get. Make sure you have a verifiable weekly average of your pay for at least the previous 4 weeks.
> 
> Good Luck!
> 
> Peter


Yea, that sounds like waayyy too much work for a gig that was paying peanuts to boot. I honestly don't care I was deactivated, I do care that they won't give me a legit reason.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Nats121 said:


> It's long overdue for the govt to step in and set up independent review boards that give drivers a legitimate opportunity to defend themselves when accused of "violations". The kangaroo courts have to go.


You're right that the kangaroo policies and procedures of the gig companies have to go - but I don't want the government spending tax dollars to set up review boards.

There is actually a system for holding the gig companies feet to the fire, It takes time, but is usually worth it. I've guided a few drivers through this and it does work... but it's a process and the driver can't skip any steps:

*1)* Request an arbitration hearing following the procedures in the driver agreement - and ask that they respond to you in writing within 14 days of the receipt of the request. (You have to do this because - unless you opted out of the arbitration clause - any court claim will be dismissed on a request for summary dismissal) One of two things will happen: 
*a)* They will respond in a timely manner and at arbitration you (or before, if they allow for 'discovery' requests ahead of time) you can request to know the precise reason for the deactivation. But you really are hoping that 
*b)* they will miss the deadline for responding to you. You want that to happen because once they fail to comply with your request, they will then be in breach of contract which will allow you to . . .

*2) *File a small claims suit against them for breach of contract. You acted in good faith by following the policies and procedures for requesting arbitration and they willfully failed to act on that request. Once you file and provide service to the company, they have to respond - they can't just ignore the court without risking a summary judgement in your favor. They won't get a dismissal because they are party that breached the arbitration clause. At that point they have to answer the claim. Which means they have to hire a local attorney to handle the case. Now it's costing them $$ and they will want it handled as quickly and as inexpensively as possible. That attorney will contact you to ask what you are seeking - and you can tell them either want the amount of your claim (which should the max allowed in your court's jurisdiction) or, to be reactivated so you can continue to use the app. Now you are in a no lose situation: You do not need to hire a lawyer in small claims court - but they do... at somewhere around $300/hr. 

$300/hr is a big incentive for them to avoid pre-trial hearings and motions for documentation. The lawyer will tell you there's nothing they can do and tell you you are going to lose. And that's when you get to say "_see you in court"_ (which is even better than getting in a cab and getting to say "follow that car!" The lawyer will report back to the company's legal dep't - and they'll look at the cost to litigate and determine that even if they will it will cost them more in legal fees than to just cut their losses and reactivate you. And you'll win the case (or get a settlement) even if there really is something in your record that justifies your deactivation --- because your claim against them isn't about 'deactivation' - it's about their breach when they failed to follow-through on the arbitration.

If you have the time and the few bucks it costs to file in small-claims court, it's best entertainment you can get for the cost.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

ConkeyCrack said:


> Yea, that sounds like waayyy too much work for a gig that was paying peanuts to boot. I honestly don't care I was deactivated, I do care that they won't give me a legit reason.


There are two things standing in the way of filing in small-claims court:
If you did not opt-out of the arbitration clause, then anything you file in court will be dismissed on a request by the company because you gave up your right to sue them. And even it were not dismissed, your agreement gives the company the right to end their relationship with a driver at any time for any reason - which means you can only go to court if they don't honor their own requirement to use arbitration.

For anyone who is interested, here's how to set it up so that you can file in small-claims court:








DD deactivated me


The arbitrary deactivations suck but no one has any right to deliver. It depends on many factors if this is true. Their ads don't even say "You can apply" they imply you can be your own boss. I'm not an expert on employment law but I know of stories where companies fabricated elaborate...




www.uberpeople.net


----------



## Nats121

Michael - Cleveland said:


> There is actually a system for holding the gig companies feet to the fire, It takes time, but is usually worth it. I've guided a few drivers through this and it does work... but it's a process and the driver can't skip any steps:


In my view it's too cumbersome and time-consuming to be a practical way for a driver to get his/her job back. Most terminated full-time gig workers lack the luxury of time. They need money coming in ASAP.

The primary purpose of review boards should be to get terminated drivers their jobs back as quickly as possible. Most full-time drivers are low income and can ill afford to go too long without a "paycheck".

Drivers can still sue the gig companies for lost wages, damages, and breech of contract if they so choose but at least they'll be working in the meantime.

As far as cost is concerned, taxpayers' dollars get wasted 24/7 on things far more frivolous than review boards that can protect the jobs of hundreds of thousands of workers. Preventing workers' families from going on welfare is a good investment of taxpayers' dollars. The govt can always levy fees from the gig companies to cover the cost of the boards.


----------



## Nats121

cabbie1 said:


> Not going to happen, because these food delivery services are private companies and the government has no control over them. You can be deactivated for any reason they see fit and there is nothing you can do about it. You are not an employee, you are an independent contractor.


So what if they're private companies? The Commerce Clause gives govt the power to regulate commerce.

If a state or the federal govt decides to regulate the gig companies they can do so and they already have.

NYC and Washington State already regulate the rideshare companies. More states are considering regulating the gig economy.


----------



## Mister K

Rideshare drv said:


> I believe it is time for lawsuit against these apps.
> they are getting away with murder and nothing is done about it.
> they can punish you for not taking b.s. orders by putting you on a timeout status and they will not admit to that,
> they can take away your hard earn money under false accusations and no one does anything about it, they can pause or even log you out while you are working in your schedule for no reason. they can deactivate you for no reason and if there is one they will not tell you.
> they will send you to deliver an order and get killed and they will not compensate or cover funeral expenses. all they will say (we are sorry our condolences)
> DD and GH and just about every gig app out there has taking advantage of drivers by exploiting them by paying starving delivery base pay of under 3.00 dollars for long runs an have shifted the responsibility of paying a decent wage thru customers tips and that is not how it should be but they get away with it, because drivers keeps driving for those apps and if you get deactivated or quit they use marketing tactics to lure new suckers drivers by giving empty promises like (your car is an Atm) (you are the boss) (work when you want)
> (set your own hours) (guaranty earning of x amount) and plenty of more lies,
> but again it is the drivers fault because we have failed to bring those apps to justice,
> we as drivers have failed to call our government official and demand to put an end to this kind of unacceptable business behavior.
> you can complain and post all you want but if we do not unite and take a firm stand against these apps they will continue with their rampage of slavery wages and unfair deactivations.


Then stop working there.


----------



## wallyruss1958

ConkeyCrack said:


> My AR was bloody awful. Don't know exactly what is was but it's on par with your friend. If they deactivated me because my AR, that's fine. Just let me know that's why I was deactivated instead of leaving it a mystery.


Uber is threatening the same. AR and Cancellation rates are being watched.


----------



## bRain524

cabbie1 said:


> Not going to happen, because these food delivery services are private companies and the government has no control over them. You can be deactivated for any reason they see fit and there is nothing you can do about it. You are not an employee, you are an independent contractor.


Wasn’t there a lawsuit about that, and didn’t they rule drivers couldn’t be penalized for low acceptance rates because, as independent contractors, we have a right to pick and choose which trips we want? Cancellation rates are a different matter because once you accept a trip, you enter into a contract that you will complete it.


----------



## Rideshare drv

cabbie1 said:


> Not going to happen, because these food delivery services are private companies and the government has no control over them. You can be deactivated for any reason they see fit and there is nothing you can do about it. You are not an employee, you are an independent contractor.


Dear member of this community:
does not matter if they are private companies in fact all companies are private companies like Wal mart, Jc penney Target Best buy E.t.c. all of this companies have to abide by the law,
so DD and GH or Uber Lyft are not exempted from the law . that is why Those gig apps companies they did unite and spend over 200 millions in false advertisement to be able to add in the ballot their Prop 22 and they successfully did and voters felt under their empty promises and approved Prop 22 but few months later that same Prop 22 it is found to be Unconstitutional by a federal judge and now their Prop 22 is about to shatter in to pieces, and for that the same apps again they have united and have form a false coalition and are lobbying and spending again millions to pass a similar Prop but to a federal level they are fully aware as of today they are at risk to be brought to justice for all the wrongdoings they have done.
so for sure the government can step in but like i mention before DRIVERS NEED TO UNITE and demand from our government officials to put an end to their business behavior.
in order to make changes sacrifices need to be made nothing is free in this life, buy if drivers are not willing to make those sacrifices because of excuses then this companies will continue doing business as usual or worst. and as for independent contractor we are NOT.
if you can not set your own rates or decide who do you want to deal with it without getting punish then you are not independent contractor. and as for suing these apps a true independent contractor can sue a customer for failing to pay for services the IC provided
you do not go thru an arbitrator you go straight to court with a judge.
That is why DRIVERS MUST UNITE so we don't have to go thru their arbitration.
But the ultimate decision is up to the drivers UNITED AS ONE before those app are able to buy congress with their B.S. coalition and millions of dollars and the best way to do it is during REELECTION TIMES.


----------



## bRain524

We should NOT BE CLASSIFIED AS EMPLOYEES!!!’ That would give Uber the right to force us to work set schedules and take shot offers, as well as limit the amount of hours we could work.


----------



## Rideshare drv

bRain524 said:


> We should NOT BE CLASSIFIED AS EMPLOYEES!!!’ That would give Uber the right to force us to work set schedules and take shot offers, as well as limit the amount of hours we could work.


You are right we should not be classified as employees but at the same token
WE SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS AN EMPLOYEE.
Just answer this simple questions,
Do you set your own fares ?
Can you declined a ride or delivery after accepting the job without consequences?
Do you get paid on a long ride the time and miles TO GO BACK HOME?

If you answer yes to all this three questions then you are truly independent contractor.
But if you answer NO to even just one of this questions,
then you are NOT Independent contractor.
you are an employee with a false title of I.C.


----------



## 232439

ConkeyCrack said:


> It says they didn't find any "security issues or potential violations" . When I appeal, they send me an email saying they found a violation on my account but won't give specifics. I have no idea why I have been deactivated. I did everything by the book. The only reason I can think is that I would consistently decline d0g$#!+ Offers. Hey DD! WHAT GIVES?!?!?
> View attachment 674002
> View attachment 674003


Why are you even doing DD? Pay for it sucks I heard.


----------



## Highlander712

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Plenty of Dashers in my market. I just don’t think it’s the AR. Maybe someone said they didn’t get their food?
> 
> It’s hard for me to say with DD. My brain doesn’t function that way. I’m sarcastic, true; but overall I’m a decent human being. DD - not so much.


 I would think someone not getting their food would be a contract violation. I had a delivery the other day to a store, Home Depot. The instructions said, "Come to the desk" it was a hand it to me. I stood there with my pizza forever, finally, when one of the people said, "Do you need something?" (I wanted to say, nope, I just take pizzas to stores and hang out) but I said, "I have a Door Dash for---" the guy behind the desk said, "Well she is with a customer now" and walked away. I already had marked "Can't hand the order to customer" and when the time went up. I gave it to someone behind the desk and got a photograph first. 

Now, I got a contraction violation for food never arriving. I explained what happened and luckily, with the picture, the contract violation was removed. So, I wouldn't think someone not getting their food would be an automatic deactivation. 

But hey, you never know. It IS something that worries me. You go out, you work, you do everything by the book, and you can still get deactivated for no reason. It bothers me to think that it could just happen out of the blue like that for NO reason at all.


----------



## Highlander712

Rickos69 said:


> This is from another board. Thoughts?
> 
> *Multiapping = Random deactivation*
> 
> Every 5 secs, you GPS location is recorded by doordash. Every month, doordash randomly selects a few orders from your last month delivery and runs a “route checker” program on them.
> If irregularity is detected, these orders will be sent to fraud team for manual review. The reviewer will replay your trip and make the decision
> That’s why you get deactivated without explanations



Speaking of which, I had an order the other day which should have been a breeze. The food was ready on time, the location was five miles and it was ten bucks. As luck and Murphy's Law would have it, terrible wreck happened on the highway. Sat there forever. I sent a message to the customer to let them know what happened, and when I got there, ten minutes late and photographed, I added, "Other" for the sad face option thing and typed, "There was a traffic accident and that is why this order was delayed." Lo and behold, I went from a 95% on time rate to 93% out of nowhere. Though by the evening it was back to normal. Maybe it got reviewed ? One can never know for sure I suppose.


----------



## BeeBadgerGuy

cabbie1 said:


> Not going to happen, because these food delivery services are private companies and the government has no control over them. You can be deactivated for any reason they see fit and there is nothing you can do about it. You are not an employee, you are an independent contractor.


Sure thing... I am from the Government & I am here to help you. I'll still love you in the morning. The check is in the mail. At the moment I cannot recall the 4th basic (UNtruth).


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel

Nats121 said:


> Not only are gig jobs unstable as far as termination is concerned, they're also unstable in their pay to the drivers.
> 
> Gig drivers never know from one day to the next whether or not the companies are going to cut their pay yet again. How many burger flippers, factory workers, accountants, etc. are being paid 1/3 of what they were 9 years ago? None.
> 
> Gig worker pay rates are 1/3 or even less than they were in 2013.
> 
> You can't maintain a middle class with that type of employment.


At least with companies like Amazon there was constant media scrutiny and public pressure that eventually lead to better pay starting at $15 per hour. These gig companies get very little scrutiny and the truth is always twisted to where it doesn't sound that bad in the public's eyes. Work your own hours, be your own boss, just you and your music tunes. 

We need a 1 hour CBS television special where the cameras follow a driver around for the entire day showing $3 deliveries all day long, with sky high gas prices, and average hourly rate that can equal less than minimum wage some days. For some reason no one is interested.


----------



## ConkeyCrack

Anubis said:


> Why are you even doing DD? Pay for it sucks I heard.


I havent been online in a while so I figured I'll multi app for a few hours see if I can make some gas money. And that's when I found out I was deactivated for no good reason. I barely use DD I stick with UE


----------



## MnyfrNthng

Nats121 said:


> It's long overdue for the govt to step in and set up independent review boards that give drivers a legitimate opportunity to defend themselves when accused of "violations". The kangaroo courts have to go.


I already talked to the US Labor Department about it. I called them after BiteSquad (WaitR) which became ASAP recently deactivated a lot of drivers on the same day. And the LAbor Department basicly said they did not care. The agendt said since we are not employees, we are not in their jurisdiction. The only thing is to use the court system.

Specifically, I and my friend got deactivated the same morning. They gave us the same reply when we asked for the reason which was our contracts says the company can terminate the contract for any reason or no reason at all. There were no reason. They just did. 

I went to the BS driver facebook page and a lot of people were deactivated that day.

I asked on the Facebook page about their acceptance rates of people who got terminated. All was about as low as single digits or in teens. Mine was around 8%. So the company terminated people for not accepting offers or maybe even not working long hours but then says we terminate for no reason. Although you terminate people for not acting like employees, when you say that I terminated you for no reason, that is totally OK.

Anyway, I called the labor department. The agent told me that unless we are not employee the Labor department does not care. You need to use the court system since you are contractors.

I asked so what stops a company let's say a barbershop or Walmart just sign their employees with contracts making them independent contractors but if they don't act like employees, like not showing up at work at certain times etc, they fire these people for not acting like employees because on paper and in contract these people are contractors? But of course when they fire them they will not say that we fired you for not showing up at 9am in the morning but they will just say we terminated you for no reason at all. Obviously in this case the company would be treating the person as an employee, and fire the person for not action like an employee but in its justification it would just say that I fired you with no reason at all. 

And the Labor Department says that since the person is not legally employee due to the contract, the Labor Department doesn't give a **** if the company breaks the law.

Then what stops these companies exploit the system and make many employees contractors because they know that when they fire that employee who earns around minimum wage, they know that that employee does not have means or resources to fight his termination in court and no lawyer will accept their job for no pay and the government will not do shit about it.

Basically, the government is telling the companies that switch your employees to contractors and if you violate the law, we don't give a shit. 

The funny thing last week there were news that the Labor Department would update its standards for Companies about independent contractors. Well, if you don't enforce these standards when the companies do not abide by those standards, why do yo even update the standards? Because if the companies violate them, you are not going to do anything anyway.


----------



## MnyfrNthng

Trafficat said:


> The arbitrary deactivations suck but no one has any right to deliver. If the companies had to pay out unemployment, the fact is they wouldn't have hired you most likely to begin with. If you feel otherwise, what's stopping you from getting a real job? The fact is you chose to be a gig worker. Either because you needed the flexibility or you couldn't make the cut as a regular employee.
> 
> Require unemployment and bye-bye flexibility and hello job interviews and resume reviews.



The problem is you give up your right to get minimum wage, your taxes, FICA to be paid by the company in order to be treated not like employee. So when the company uses the person without paying any taxes or FICA but then later on terminates because that person does not act like an employee, it is just a exploitation system. Technically, they cannot do that but in some other way technically they can do that when the government declines to enforce the labor law.


----------



## Highlander712

ConkeyCrack said:


> I havent been online in a while so I figured I'll multi app for a few hours see if I can make some gas money. And that's when I found out I was deactivated for no good reason. I barely use DD I stick with UE


I think it was on DD reddit, or one of those places that I read that if one does not use the app for a long time, that can happen. And then they can get reactivated.

If I can find the post, the person stated they had not drove in months, and then went on, then got deactivated, then got a message with that "It is busy in your area" type of thing and logged back in. 

Perhaps that is all it is. One of their system glitches.


----------



## 232439

ConkeyCrack said:


> I havent been online in a while so I figured I'll multi app for a few hours see if I can make some gas money. And that's when I found out I was deactivated for no good reason. I barely use DD I stick with UE


They deactivated you because you were loyal to Uber not them lol. Their app can detect if you're also using other on-demand services apps


----------



## dgates01

Rideshare drv said:


> .


_Do you set your own fares?_
By only accepting fares that I think are high enough, then yes, I'm setting them.

_Can you declined a ride or delivery after accepting the job without consequences?_
Easy solution. Don't accept jobs you don't want to do.


----------



## DrvrChgo1

“ and as for independent contractor we are NOT.
if you can not set your own rates or decide who do you want to deal with it without getting punish then you are not independent contractor. and as for suing these apps a true independent contractor can sue a customer for failing to pay for services the IC provided”

I hear many claims saying “that because of…, or “if you can answer yes to this or not to that”. Then you are an iC or no you are. It an IC.
But I never see anyone prove their statements by citing a specific Department Regulation, a specific statute or law, or specific court ruling and from what jurisdiction, or published case law that shows proof of their statement.
Where do your claims above come from? What are the grounds that show this is legally how IC status is determined. 
I’m not necessarily saying you are wrong, nor agreeing you are correct. I’m only looking for some proof the justifies your claim, or is that merely your opinion you think a determination should be made?


----------



## DrvrChgo1

Rideshare drv said:


> Dear member of this community:
> does not matter if they are private companies in fact all companies are private companies like Wal mart, Jc penney Target Best buy E.t.c. all of this companies have to abide by the law,
> so DD and GH or Uber Lyft are not exempted from the law . that is why Those gig apps companies they did unite and spend over 200 millions in false advertisement to be able to add in the ballot their Prop 22 and they successfully did and voters felt under their empty promises and approved Prop 22 but few months later that same Prop 22 it is found to be Unconstitutional by a federal judge and now their Prop 22 is about to shatter in to pieces, and for that the same apps again they have united and have form a false coalition and are lobbying and spending again millions to pass a similar Prop but to a federal level they are fully aware as of today they are at risk to be brought to justice for all the wrongdoings they have done.
> so for sure the government can step in but like i mention before DRIVERS NEED TO UNITE and demand from our government officials to put an end to their business behavior.
> in order to make changes sacrifices need to be made nothing is free in this life, buy if drivers are not willing to make those sacrifices because of excuses then this companies will continue doing business as usual or worst. and as for independent contractor we are NOT.
> if you can not set your own rates or decide who do you want to deal with it without getting punish then you are not independent contractor. and as for suing these apps a true independent contractor can sue a customer for failing to pay for services the IC provided
> you do not go thru an arbitrator you go straight to court with a judge.
> That is why DRIVERS MUST UNITE so we don't have to go thru their arbitration.
> But the ultimate decision is up to the drivers UNITED AS ONE before those app are able to buy congress with their B.S. coalition and millions of dollars and the best way to do it is during REELECTION TIMES.


I hear many claims saying “that because of…, or “if you can answer yes to this or not to that”. Then you are an iC or no you are. It an IC.
But I never see anyone prove their statements by citing a specific Department Regulation, a specific statute or law, or specific court ruling and from what jurisdiction, or published case law that shows proof of their statement.
Where do your claims above come from? What are the grounds that show this is legally how IC status is determined. 
I’m not necessarily saying you are wrong, nor agreeing you are correct. I’m only looking for some proof the justifies your claim, or is that merely your opinion you think a determination should be made?


----------



## DrvrChgo1

Rideshare drv said:


> You are right we should not be classified as employees but at the same token
> WE SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS AN EMPLOYEE.
> Just answer this simple questions,
> Do you set your own fares ?
> Can you declined a ride or delivery after accepting the job without consequences?
> Do you get paid on a long ride the time and miles TO GO BACK HOME?
> 
> If you answer yes to all this three questions then you are truly independent contractor.
> But if you answer NO to even just one of this questions,
> then you are NOT Independent contractor.
> you are an employee with a false title of I.C.


I’m asking you the same question I ask others that make statements about what determines your IC or employee claim:

I hear many claims saying “that because of…, or “if you can answer yes to this or not to that”. Then you are an iC or no you are. It an IC.
But I never see anyone prove their statements by citing a specific Department Regulation, a specific statute or law, or specific court ruling and from what jurisdiction, or published case law that shows proof of their statement.
Where do your claims above come from? What are the grounds that show this is legally how IC status is determined. 
I’m not necessarily saying you are wrong, nor agreeing you are correct. I’m only looking for some proof the justifies your claim, or is that merely your opinion you think a determination should be made?


----------



## Ms. Mercenary

It’s in the contract you signed when you joined. You agreed to this.


----------



## Mad_Jack_Flint

ConkeyCrack said:


> I don't have access to that information but my AR wasn't very good. I would rarely cancel because if I accepted, that means it was a trip worth my time. I just wished they gave me a reason so I can sleep easy knowing why I was deactivated


If Grubhub would deactivate me I would do a tap dance in the middle of the street!

As for Dash all I can say don’t let it get to you.


----------



## 232439

DrvrChgo1 said:


> “ and as for independent contractor we are NOT.
> if you can not set your own rates or decide who do you want to deal with it without getting punish then you are not independent contractor. and as for suing these apps a true independent contractor can sue a customer for failing to pay for services the IC provided”
> 
> I hear many claims saying “that because of…, or “if you can answer yes to this or not to that”. Then you are an iC or no you are. It an IC.
> But I never see anyone prove their statements by citing a specific Department Regulation, a specific statute or law, or specific court ruling and from what jurisdiction, or published case law that shows proof of their statement.
> Where do your claims above come from? What are the grounds that show this is legally how IC status is determined.
> I’m not necessarily saying you are wrong, nor agreeing you are correct. I’m only looking for some proof the justifies your claim, or is that merely your opinion you think a determination should be made?


In my state no regulates Uber. City makes Millions from Uber and Lyft here and so does airport. Call the regulators please


----------



## yankees992013

Trafficat said:


> The arbitrary deactivations suck but no one has any right to deliver. If the companies had to pay out unemployment, the fact is they wouldn't have hired you most likely to begin with. If you feel otherwise, what's stopping you from getting a real job? The fact is you chose to be a gig worker. Either because you needed the flexibility or you couldn't make the cut as a regular employee.
> 
> Require unemployment and bye-bye flexibility and hello job interviews and resume reviews.


Totally agreed. Gig/side job is what it is. Gigs would never replace regular employment even part time job. I failed to understand how anyone want to take a risk by having gigs as a sole employment. Gigs usually supposed to be an additional to his/her regular employment.


----------



## jaxbeachrides

I think because full time employment carries alot of risk too.

Working a couple months at a training wage than being cut before you get benefits, union acceptance or unemployment.

Or working 25-30 years and losing your pension due to being fired, downsized, replaced, or reduced benefits.

And meanwhile they're monopolizing your time all along the way with a promise of all these benefits.

The benefits of non government jobs have been reduced to the point of hardly being worth it.


----------



## yankees992013

jaxbeachrides said:


> I think because full time employment carries alot of risk too.
> 
> Working a couple months at a training wage than being cut before you get benefits, union acceptance or unemployment.
> 
> Or working 25-30 years and losing your pension due to being fired, downsized, replaced, or reduced benefits.
> 
> And meanwhile they're monopolizing your time all along the way with a promise of all these benefits.
> 
> The benefits of non government jobs have been reduced to the point of hardly being worth it.


The training wage is what we call Probation period in the States. Usually new hires get 60 to 90 days before getting benefits from the company. During the Probation period, the company is evaluating the employee and if the employee doesn't meet the company's standards then get let go.

This is standard in every employment in US. There's no risk other than that. Most States have "at will" employment meaning the company can fire you for breach of company's policy. So your answer is incorrect.


----------



## Judge and Jury

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> At least with companies like Amazon there was constant media scrutiny and public pressure that eventually lead to better pay starting at $15 per hour. These gig companies get very little scrutiny and the truth is always twisted to where it doesn't sound that bad in the public's eyes. Work your own hours, be your own boss, just you and your music tunes.
> 
> We need a 1 hour CBS television special where the cameras follow a driver around for the entire day showing $3 deliveries all day long, with sky high gas prices, and average hourly rate that can equal less than minimum wage some days. For some reason no one is interested.


This is an Internet forum.

It is not a one hour television extravaganza.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary

Why CBS? Put it on Bravo!

“The Real Drivers of the Gig Economy”.


----------



## Emptynesst

DrvrChgo1 said:


> I’m asking you the same question I ask others that make statements about what determines your IC or employee claim:
> 
> I hear many claims saying “that because of…, or “if you can answer yes to this or not to that”. Then you are an iC or no you are. It an IC.
> But I never see anyone prove their statements by citing a specific Department Regulation, a specific statute or law, or specific court ruling and from what jurisdiction, or published case law that shows proof of their statement.
> Where do your claims above come from? What are the grounds that show this is legally how IC status is determined.
> I’m not necessarily saying you are wrong, nor agreeing you are correct. I’m only looking for some proof the justifies your claim, or is that merely your opinion you think a determination should be made?


Look dude , it matters not if you have “evidence “ it is mor likely than not what these company’s are doing is wrong , doesn’t take a doctorate to understand and from experience , these company’s are morally dead inside and are preying upon people , and unfortunately our government is in bed with them , it’s all about greed , from the top down our corporations and politicians are corrupt , problem is that when lawmakers are corrupt , it’s all over for the average person , doesn’t mean we have to like it and prove it to anyone .

Your sitting on the fence and preaching from both sides of it , you should go into politics , you would fit right in . SMH


----------



## Emptynesst

Judge and Jury said:


> This is an Internet forum.
> 
> It is not a one hour television extravaganza.


And your a mushroom head , can’t stand your comments


----------



## jaxbeachrides

yankees992013 said:


> The training wage is what we call Probation period in the States. Usually new hires get 60 to 90 days before getting benefits from the company. During the Probation period, the company is evaluating the employee and if the employee doesn't meet the company's standards then get let go.
> 
> This is standard in every employment in US. There's no risk other than that. Most States have "at will" employment meaning the company can fire you for breach of company's policy. So your answer is incorrect.


Eh no there is a risk. Just because you aren't initially released (which is a practice of some companies) doesnt mean they can't fire you later or cut your pay.

This is just marginally different from the app companies, because the enforcement of minimal labor law doesn't really do much at the $10-15 level.

You can still work a lifetime and your company fails or is "reorganized" and your work benefits are mostly gone.

So to say that the only risk of employment is the long term hire in phase, is also entirely incorrect.


----------



## Nats121

MnyfrNthng said:


> I already talked to the US Labor Department about it. I called them after BiteSquad (WaitR) which became ASAP recently deactivated a lot of drivers on the same day. And the LAbor Department basicly said they did not care. The agendt said since we are not employees, we are not in their jurisdiction. The only thing is to use the court system.
> 
> Specifically, I and my friend got deactivated the same morning. They gave us the same reply when we asked for the reason which was our contracts says the company can terminate the contract for any reason or no reason at all. There were no reason. They just did.
> 
> I went to the BS driver facebook page and a lot of people were deactivated that day.
> 
> I asked on the Facebook page about their acceptance rates of people who got terminated. All was about as low as single digits or in teens. Mine was around 8%. So the company terminated people for not accepting offers or maybe even not working long hours but then says we terminate for no reason. Although you terminate people for not acting like employees, when you say that I terminated you for no reason, that is totally OK.
> 
> Anyway, I called the labor department. The agent told me that unless we are not employee the Labor department does not care. You need to use the court system since you are contractors.
> 
> I asked so what stops a company let's say a barbershop or Walmart just sign their employees with contracts making them independent contractors but if they don't act like employees, like not showing up at work at certain times etc, they fire these people for not acting like employees because on paper and in contract these people are contractors? But of course when they fire them they will not say that we fired you for not showing up at 9am in the morning but they will just say we terminated you for no reason at all. Obviously in this case the company would be treating the person as an employee, and fire the person for not action like an employee but in its justification it would just say that I fired you with no reason at all.
> 
> And the Labor Department says that since the person is not legally employee due to the contract, the Labor Department doesn't give a **** if the company breaks the law.
> 
> Then what stops these companies exploit the system and make many employees contractors because they know that when they fire that employee who earns around minimum wage, they know that that employee does not have means or resources to fight his termination in court and no lawyer will accept their job for no pay and the government will not do shit about it.
> 
> Basically, the government is telling the companies that switch your employees to contractors and if you violate the law, we don't give a shit.
> 
> The funny thing last week there were news that the Labor Department would update its standards for Companies about independent contractors. Well, if you don't enforce these standards when the companies do not abide by those standards, why do yo even update the standards? Because if the companies violate them, you are not going to do anything anyway.


That labor department guy is an ass. He may as well be on Uber's payroll. (Maybe he is on Uber's payroll.)

I wonder how many others in the labor dept have a similar attitude.

Contact the media and your politicians.


----------



## Nats121

dgates01 said:


> _Do you set your own fares?_
> By only accepting fares that I think are high enough, then yes, I'm setting them.
> 
> _Can you declined a ride or delivery after accepting the job without consequences?_
> Easy solution. Don't accept jobs you don't want to do.


Foolish comments on multiple levels.


----------



## jaxbeachrides

Getting the government to do anything for you in regards to labor law is a total scam.

It generally takes months or years to get a response.


----------



## Nats121

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> At least with companies like Amazon there was constant media scrutiny and public pressure that eventually lead to better pay starting at $15 per hour. These gig companies get very little scrutiny and the truth is always twisted to where it doesn't sound that bad in the public's eyes. Work your own hours, be your own boss, just you and your music tunes.
> 
> We need a 1 hour CBS television special where the cameras follow a driver around for the entire day showing $3 deliveries all day long, with sky high gas prices, and average hourly rate that can equal less than minimum wage some days. For some reason no one is interested.


What happens if the driver gets lucky that particular day and gets good orders or worse, a corrupt person at CBS tips off Uber and the driver gets "fed" good orders that day? It would end up being great publicity for Uber.


----------



## Nats121

jaxbeachrides said:


> Getting the government to do anything for you in regards to labor law is a total scam.
> 
> It generally takes months or years to get a response.


The media can push the govt to act.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel

Nats121 said:


> What happens if the driver gets lucky that particular day and gets good orders or worse, a corrupt person at CBS tips off Uber and the driver gets "fed" good orders that day? It would end up being great publicity for Uber.


I never thought that far ahead. I'm not as sharp as I use to be. LoL

I guess if a news reporter was seriously interested the screenshots for the last 8 weeks should be more than enough to see the disparity.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel

Judge and Jury said:


> This is an Internet forum.
> 
> It is not a one hour television extravaganza.


It's called 60 Minutes or Dateline NBC. They have uncovered some of the most unthinkable in the past. Let them have a crack at Uber or Doordash.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> It's called 60 Minutes or Dateline NBC. They have uncovered some of the most unthinkable in the past. Let them have a crack at Uber or Doordash.


No one watches them. Only senior citizens.

In general, no one watches network tv. People watch cable, if they watch tv at all.

Hence my idea about Bravo! is way better than yours. @jaxbeachrides and I can provide a sleazy dirty love story. We’re great actors! And Jax is generally sleazy and dirty. I can play the innocent, pure victim. I’m very good at it.


----------



## bRain524

Do you set your own fares ?
Can you declined a ride or delivery after accepting the job without consequences?
Do you get paid on a long ride the time and miles TO GO BACK HOME?
l[/QUOTE]

Yes, I set my own fares by being able to pick and choose which trips I want. This is why acceptance rate should not matter, and I keep hearing conflicting things over whether or not it does. Ultimately, I think there was in fact a lawsuit ruling protecting our rights as ICs to decline trips.

When, I accept a trip, I am entering a contract that I will complete the trip. Thus, Uber does have a right to penalize based on constantly cancelling trips. Still, canceling is fine as long as it’s not excessive. It’s not hard to keep your cancellation rate low.

No, we don’t get paid to commute back home. We are logged off the app at that point, I’m not sure what that has to do with being an independent contractor.


----------



## jaxbeachrides

bRain524 said:


> Do you set your own fares ?
> 
> No, we don’t get paid to commute back home. We are logged off the app at that point, I’m not sure what that has to do with being an independent contractor.


This whole rate thing has an instrumental impact on this independent contractor argument.

This is typically based on the assumption that a contractor is paid a sufficient wage in addition to expenses, to pay his / her own benefits, taxes etc.

When an independent contractor agreement is used solely for the purpose of deflating market rates and impoverishing the contractor by vastly underpaying the contractor, this is significant because

Not only have they cut your offer rates below a reasonable amount, before operating costs, there are constant penalties for not accepting charity work. Every company has their own version of penalizing the contractors that do not accept charitable work.

Since all of these companies are public, for profit organizations, there should never be an expectation that any contractor would ever accept a volunteer position with the presumption of being "paid" a dollar or two as "compensation".

Regardless of the legal walls they have built up all around it, I dont see where the definition of contractor implies that there is any expectation at all of volunteer or charitable labor donations to a for profit corporation, underhandedly penalizing those who are not doing charitble work.


----------



## Seamus

@ConkeyCrack, don’t forget NYC passed laws protecting delivery drivers. Different element get phased in at different times.





__





Delivery-Workers






www1.nyc.gov


----------



## jaxbeachrides

Seamus said:


> @ConkeyCrack, don’t forget NYC passed laws protecting delivery drivers. Different element get phased in at different times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delivery-Workers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www1.nyc.gov


That's very detailed.

Like:

Pickup at: 43 W 55th St, New York, NY 10019
9 items

Deliver to: 725 5th Ave, New York, NY 10022
.2 miles

Pay $2


----------



## DrvrChgo1

Emptynesst said:


> Look dude , it matters not if you have “evidence “ it is mor likely than not what these company’s are doing is wrong , doesn’t take a doctorate to understand and from experience , these company’s are morally dead inside and are preying upon people , and unfortunately our government is in bed with them , it’s all about greed , from the top down our corporations and politicians are corrupt , problem is that when lawmakers are corrupt , it’s all over for the average person , doesn’t mean we have to like it and prove it to anyone .
> 
> Your sitting on the fence and preaching from both sides of it , you should go into politics , you would fit right in . SMH


Hate to break it to you but there’s no fence sitting here or preaching from sides. I am one who takes time to look at an entire situation, it’s history, context and hopefully decisions can be made that are optimal solutions for everyone involved. But determining IC status isnt as cut and dried as you apparently seem to think it is or want it to be. And as technology changes it also changes how those factors in determining IC Status are evaluated. Have you ever heard of the Borello Test and what all it considers? And the current ABC Test, it’s corresponding AB5 legislation in CA, are both inadequate and flawed and need correction. Do you know how many 10’s of thousand small businesses and Independent Contractors have had their lifelong business destroyed, went out of business, had to close operations and/or had their lives personally upended and derailed because of AB5… and other states are trying to pass the same type of legislation. 

The majority of drivers want to stay IC’s and do not want to become employees. Those drivers who can learn and implement good business practices and Live from a place of empowerment and self direction fare way better in dealing with the issues that come from these companies… way better than the people who live life as a victim or always feeling victimized and that life happens TO them and not through them. 

yes you are right that there are some practices from these companies that are pretty low on the ethics and morality ladder. But nobody is ever going to correct that by any amount of legislation. You can’t legislate morality. It’s possible that something can be unethical or not moral but be perfectly legal.

Unions arent always the best solution to these problems either. The have tended to become as money hungry, power grabbing and corruptpoliticians and corporations both.
People need to stay informed and educated about their politics and what’s going on in them. They need to be active, patient and persistent and they need to vote ALL THE TIME.


----------



## jaxbeachrides

DrvrChgo1 said:


> Hate to break it to you but there’s no fence sitting here or preaching from sides. I am one who takes time to look at an entire situation, it’s history, context and hopefully decisions can be made that are optimal solutions for everyone involved. But determining IC status isnt as cut and dried as you apparently seem to think it is or want it to be. And as technology changes it also changes how those factors in determining IC Status are evaluated. Have you ever heard of the Borello Test and what all it considers? And the current ABC Test, it’s corresponding AB5 legislation in CA, are both inadequate and flawed and need correction. Do you know how many 10’s of thousand small businesses and Independent Contractors have had their lifelong business destroyed, went out of business, had to close operations and/or had their lives personally upended and derailed because of AB5… and other states are trying to pass the same type of legislation.
> 
> The majority of drivers want to stay IC’s and do not want to become employees. Those drivers who can learn and implement good business practices and Live from a place of empowerment and self direction fare way better in dealing with the issues that come from these companies… way better than the people who live life as a victim or always feeling victimized and that life happens TO them and not through them.
> 
> yes you are right that there are some practices from these companies that are pretty low on the ethics and morality ladder. But nobody is ever going to correct that by any amount of legislation. You can’t legislate morality. It’s possible that something can be unethical or not moral but be perfectly legal.
> 
> Unions arent always the best solution to these problems either. The have tended to become as money hungry, power grabbing and corruptpoliticians and corporations both.
> People need to stay informed and educated about their politics and what’s going on in them. They need to be active, patient and persistent and they need to vote ALL THE TIME.


In this case, it's about the only business that unions should still be required. Otherwise its perfectly legal for you to work on a donation basis.


----------



## John_in_NY

Gig economy is large, greedy corporations taking advantage of, in this case, drivers thinking they can do this full-time, Which some do. 
But it's like walking on eggshells. It's a gig, not a job and definitely not a career.
Some people have been doing it for years. Others get deactivated quickly without reason.
It's just a screwed up deal to many.


----------



## jaxbeachrides

Ms. Mercenary said:


> No one watches them. Only senior citizens.
> 
> In general, no one watches network tv. People watch cable, if they watch tv at all.
> 
> Hence my idea about Bravo! is way better than yours. @jaxbeachrides and I can provide a sleazy dirty love story. We’re great actors! And Jax is generally sleazy and dirty. I can play the innocent, pure victim. I’m very good at it.


----------



## Emptynesst

DrvrChgo1 said:


> Hate to break it to you but there’s no fence sitting here or preaching from sides. I am one who takes time to look at an entire situation, it’s history, context and hopefully decisions can be made that are optimal solutions for everyone involved. But determining IC status isnt as cut and dried as you apparently seem to think it is or want it to be. And as technology changes it also changes how those factors in determining IC Status are evaluated. Have you ever heard of the Borello Test and what all it considers? And the current ABC Test, it’s corresponding AB5 legislation in CA, are both inadequate and flawed and need correction. Do you know how many 10’s of thousand small businesses and Independent Contractors have had their lifelong business destroyed, went out of business, had to close operations and/or had their lives personally upended and derailed because of AB5… and other states are trying to pass the same type of legislation.
> 
> The majority of drivers want to stay IC’s and do not want to become employees. Those drivers who can learn and implement good business practices and Live from a place of empowerment and self direction fare way better in dealing with the issues that come from these companies… way better than the people who live life as a victim or always feeling victimized and that life happens TO them and not through them.
> 
> yes you are right that there are some practices from these companies that are pretty low on the ethics and morality ladder. But nobody is ever going to correct that by any amount of legislation. You can’t legislate morality. It’s possible that something can be unethical or not moral but be perfectly legal.
> 
> Unions arent always the best solution to these problems either. The have tended to become as money hungry, power grabbing and corruptpoliticians and corporations both.
> People need to stay informed and educated about their politics and what’s going on in them. They need to be active, patient and persistent and they need to vote ALL THE TIME.


Politics = corruption . Don’t care which side of the isle your on . Those are facts . You can have fancy arguments from either side but power breeds corruption , politics = greed . You’ll never convince this mid fifty’s man who’s seen it all .


----------



## Gbrents

Highlander712 said:


> I would think someone not getting their food would be a contract violation. I had a delivery the other day to a store, Home Depot. The instructions said, "Come to the desk" it was a hand it to me. I stood there with my pizza forever, finally, when one of the people said, "Do you need something?" (I wanted to say, nope, I just take pizzas to stores and hang out) but I said, "I have a Door Dash for---" the guy behind the desk said, "Well she is with a customer now" and walked away. I already had marked "Can't hand the order to customer" and when the time went up. I gave it to someone behind the desk and got a photograph first.
> 
> Now, I got a contraction violation for food never arriving. I explained what happened and luckily, with the picture, the contract violation was removed. So, I wouldn't think someone not getting their food would be an automatic deactivation.
> 
> But hey, you never know. It IS something that worries me. You go out, you work, you do everything by the book, and you can still get deactivated for no reason. It bothers me to think that it could just happen out of the blue like that for NO reason at all.


That’s why I refuse to do DD, or UberEats.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary

Gbrents said:


> That’s why I refuse to do DD, or UberEats.


I’m just curious what your motivation was to post this in a DELIVERY subforum? Serious question. Because I don’t do PAX and never informed the PAX subforum of this. Am I slacking?


----------



## DrvrChgo1

Emptynesst said:


> Politics = corruption . Don’t care which side of the isle your on . Those are facts . You can have fancy arguments from either side but power breeds corruption , politics = greed . You’ll never convince this mid fifty’s man who’s seen it all .


Sometimes, not all the time.
Some politicians, not all of them.

Power alone does not breed corruption; it’s the mishandling and misappropriation of power by someone who puts their individual self interest ahead of the Whole leads to corruption.

I have no need for fancy arguments, or even simple arguments because I don’t have a need or desire to convince you of anything. This mid-fifties fan has seen and experienced a lot also, including people/politicians and power that didn’t lead to corruption. 
You appear to be glass half empty kind of person. 

I believe a good plan in navigating a situation or a change is to start out with accepting the truth of “what is” then make choices that are the most optimal at that, while also allowing for an “X factor” of unknown possibilities.


----------



## Rickos69

DrvrChgo1 said:


> Sometimes, not all the time.
> Some politicians, not all of them.


Are you sure you are from Chicago?
Even Jay Leno once said
"They are thinking of renaming a jail to Illinois Governors' Retirement Home!"


----------



## DrvrChgo1

jaxbeachrides said:


> In this case, it's about the only business that unions should still be required. Otherwise its perfectly legal for you to work on a donation basis.


I don’t think Unions should ever be Required, anywhere. If a group wishes to form one, that’s fine. But every individual should be able to choose if they want to be a member and have the benefits and be under Union control or opt out of those.


----------



## Emptynesst

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely .


----------



## DrvrChgo1

MnyfrNthng said:


> The problem is you give up your right to get minimum wage, your taxes, FICA to be paid by the company in order to be treated not like employee. So when the company uses the person without paying any taxes or FICA but then later on terminates because that person does not act like an employee, it is just a exploitation system. Technically, they cannot do that but in some other way technically they can do that when the government declines to enforce the labor law.


Actually when you work in an “at will” state then a company can terminate your employment for any legal reason or for no reason at all and with no advance notice. 
(An illegal reason is any of those protected classes you see on employment forms. - ace, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy, sexual orientation, or gender identity), national origin, age(40 or older), disability and genetic information(including family medical history).
Unless a state has added more categories through their own legislation then they could fire you and say it was because they don’t like the cologne you are wearing and the company would have no legal liability. 

likewise, you can quit for any reason or no reason and without notice


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Nats121 said:


> In my view it's too cumbersome and time-consuming to be a practical way for a driver to get his/her job back. Most terminated full-time gig workers lack the luxury of time. They need money coming in ASAP.
> 
> The primary purpose of review boards should be to get terminated drivers their jobs back as quickly as possible. Most full-time drivers are low income and can ill afford to go too long without a "paycheck".
> 
> Drivers can still sue the gig companies for lost wages, damages, and breech of contract if they so choose but at least they'll be working in the meantime.
> 
> As far as cost is concerned, taxpayers' dollars get wasted 24/7 on things far more frivolous than review boards that can protect the jobs of hundreds of thousands of workers. Preventing workers' families from going on welfare is a good investment of taxpayers' dollars. The govt can always levy fees from the gig companies to cover the cost of the boards.


I hear ya - but if you think a government run board of review's "purpose" will be to get drivers their job back quickly" I'm afraid you're mistaken. At best, a board of review would be neutral - having no interest in either getting a driver their back or denying them the ability to get their job back. The purpose would be to guarantee due process. A review board must be independent or it's not really a board of review. And if you think a government mandated and regulated board of review would be faster than filing for arbitration and/or filing in small claims court, again, I think you'd be mistaken. Government moves slower than grass growing. At least in arbitration and small-claims courts there are enforceable deadlines.

As far as time-consuming and cumbersome, yep. It is. Most who follow the procedure I've outline are trying to get back on one service, all while continuing to do rideshare, product and food delivery on the other platforms from which they have not yet been tossed. In other words; If you've been doing $1,200+/wk on Uber and get booted, yes, going through the process of getting back on is a pain-in-the-ass (as it probably should be) but well worth it if this is how you choose to make your living.


----------



## Jedi-Uber

Kmac95 said:


> They deactivated me also but I just made a new account and used a new email and phone number


With the same photo, license plate, make, model and year of your car and a background check? really?


----------



## jaxbeachrides

Jedi-Uber said:


> With the same photo, license plate, make, model and year of your car and a background check? really?


DD doesn't verify anything. You could sign up with a horse and buggy for all they care.

I'm pretty sure they gave me 2 accounts when I was signing up and did it twice because I thought it didn't go through.


----------



## Judge and Jury

Emptynesst said:


> And your a mushroom head , can’t stand your comments


Ouch.

And you're a poopy head.

By the way, I was paraphrasing lawyer/sports caster Howard Cosell. A person infamous for making outrageous statements.


----------



## Judge and Jury

Emptynesst said:


> Look dude , it matters not if you have “evidence “ it is mor likely than not what these company’s are doing is wrong , doesn’t take a doctorate to understand and from experience , these company’s are morally dead inside and are preying upon people , and unfortunately our government is in bed with them , it’s all about greed , from the top down our corporations and politicians are corrupt , problem is that when lawmakers are corrupt , it’s all over for the average person , doesn’t mean we have to like it and prove it to anyone .
> 
> Your sitting on the fence and preaching from both sides of it , you should go into politics , you would fit right in . SMH


Pretty outrageous statements.

Do you have evidence that members of my local city council are corrupt, or are you just broadly generalizing?

Also, seems you think making a profit is evil.

Are you a profitable contractor, thus defined as evil;

Or an unprofitable contractor without sin or malice towards others?

Again, pretty broad and outrageous statements.

By the way, are you related to Howard Cosell?


----------



## Emptynesst

Judge and Jury said:


> Pretty outrageous statements.
> 
> Do you have evidence that members of my local city council are corrupt, or are you just broadly generalizing?
> 
> Also, seems you think making a profit is evil.
> 
> Are you a profitable contractor, thus defined as evil;
> 
> Or an unprofitable contractor without sin or malice towards others?
> 
> Again, pretty broad and outrageous statements.
> 
> By the way, are you related to Howard Cosell?


Try harder


----------



## Judge and Jury

Emptynesst said:


> Politics = corruption . Don’t care which side of the isle your on . Those are facts . You can have fancy arguments from either side but power breeds corruption , politics = greed . You’ll never convince this mid fifty’s man who’s seen it all .


You have seen it all?

Did David actually slay Goliath?

Did some dinasours actually have feathers?

Did Napoleon look over the battlefield full of soldiers at Waterloo and think to himself; I am hungry?

So many more questions.


----------



## Judge and Jury

Emptynesst said:


> Try harder


You're a super poopy head.

Plus, no answer to my inquiries.

Guessing an unprofitable contractor with malice towards all.


----------



## Emptynesst

Judge and Jury said:


> You have seen it all?
> 
> Did David actually slay Goliath?
> 
> Did some dinasours actually have feathers?
> 
> Did Napoleon look over the battlefield full of soldiers at Waterloo and think to himself; I am hungry?
> 
> So many more questions.


Try harder


----------



## Emptynesst

Judge and Jury said:


> You're a super poopy head.


Try harder


----------



## Judge and Jury

Emptynesst said:


> Try harder


You're a super poopy head, with stupid opinions and it seems that the stick stuck up your butt is making you irritable and irrational.


----------



## Emptynesst

Judge and Jury said:


> You're a super poopy head, with stupid opinions and it seems that the stick stuck up your butt is making you irritable and irrational.


Try harder


----------



## Judge and Jury

Emptynesst said:


> Try harder


You're a super duper mushroom shaped poopy head who doesn't know how to vote.

You started the name calling, not me.

Are you related to Beavis or Butthead?

The final tell is you will not respond to profitablity questions.

Seems you are flailing at the companies because you allow them to do unspeakable things to you.

Experiment, learn and adapt.

Even you can be profitable.


----------



## Emptynesst

Judge and Jury said:


> You're a super duper mushroom shaped poopy head who doesn't know how to vote.
> 
> You started the name calling, not me.
> 
> Are you related to Beavis or Butthead?
> 
> The final tell is you will not respond to profitablity questions.
> 
> Seems you are flailing at the companies because you allow them to do unspeakable things to you.
> 
> Experiment, learn and adapt.
> 
> Even you can be profitable.


Try harder


----------



## Judge and Jury

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> It's called 60 Minutes or Dateline NBC. They have uncovered some of the most unthinkable in the past. Let them have a crack at Uber or Doordash.


I was paraphrasing Howard Cosell, an infamous sports caster.

Have you reached out to any of the broadcast "news magazines"?

Or any other outlet other than this forum?

If you could pitch a significant hook to a national player, they might bite.


----------



## jaxbeachrides

Gbrents said:


> That’s why I refuse to do DD, or UberEats.


I mean um not like the uber rides don't carry outsized risk. 

Theres only a half dozen or so markets that pay good.

Most markets have a similar minumum pay around $3, which is on par with delivery. Except you're dealing with some entitled riders for that price.

The real disadvantage to delivery is theres limited earnings hours.


----------



## comitatus1

Judge and Jury said:


> Are you related to Beavis or Butthead?


Obviously, he is their progeny.

Chris


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel

Ms. Mercenary said:


> No one watches them. Only senior citizens.
> 
> In general, no one watches network tv. People watch cable, if they watch tv at all.
> 
> Hence my idea about Bravo! is way better than yours. @jaxbeachrides and I can provide a sleazy dirty love story. We’re great actors! And Jax is generally sleazy and dirty. I can play the innocent, pure victim. I’m very good at it.


CBS averages over 6 million viewers during primetime. We must have a lot seniors glued to the television. If old folks are willing to listen I have a mouthful to share with them. Heck I'm willing to preach to a kindergarten class if it will raise an eyebrow.


----------



## jaxbeachrides

Why wouldn't people watch network TV? Just because you have more than 3 channels these days doesn't mean you have more substance. Just the viewership is more spread out over different options.

You can have literally 2000 cable channels and it's mostly garbage or advertising. 

I dont necessarily consider streaming services to be tv. It's just the digital equivalent of watching a dvd.


----------



## comitatus1

jaxbeachrides said:


> Why wouldn't people watch network TV? Just because you have more than 3 channels these days doesn't mean you have more substance. Just the viewership is more spread out over different options.
> 
> You can have literally 2000 cable channels and it's mostly garbage or advertising.
> 
> I dont necessarily consider streaming services to be tv. It's just the digital equivalent of watching a dvd.


Well, you can get "over the air" networks on many streaming services.

Having said that, I agree, we have 2000 channels of s**t on our super duper flat panel tv to choose from.

Let me know if you get the song reference. All the old guys here will get it....I hope.

Please don't make me link to a YouTube video...

Chris


----------



## Nats121

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I hear ya - but if you think a government run board of review's "purpose" will be to get drivers their job back quickly" I'm afraid you're mistaken. At best, a board of review would be neutral - having no interest in either getting a driver their back or denying them the ability to get their job back. The purpose would be to guarantee due process. A review board must be independent or it's not really a board of review. And if you think a government mandated and regulated board of review would be faster than filing for arbitration and/or filing in small claims court, again, I think you'd be mistaken. Government moves slower than grass growing. At least in arbitration and small-claims courts there are enforceable deadlines.
> 
> As far as time-consuming and cumbersome, yep. It is. Most who follow the procedure I've outline are trying to get back on one service, all while continuing to do rideshare, product and food delivery on the other platforms from which they have not yet been tossed. In other words; If you've been doing $1,200+/wk on Uber and get booted, yes, going through the process of getting back on is a pain-in-the-ass (as it probably should be) but well worth it if this is how you choose to make your living.


The purpose of a review board is to protect the drivers from unjust firings. That's it's only purpose. It certainly isn't for Uber's protection. They don't need protection, they run the entire operation as a totalitarian dictatorship.

This isn't a business dispute between two relatively equal adversaries, it's David vs Goliath.

The first priority is to get terminated drivers' jobs back (so long as the firings were unjust). Collection for damages can be done later via court.


----------



## jaxbeachrides

Nats121 said:


> The purpose of a review board is to protect the drivers from unjust firings. That's it's only purpose. It certainly isn't for Uber's protection. They don't need protection, they run the entire operation as a totalitarian dictatorship.
> 
> This isn't a business dispute between two relatively equal adversaries, it's David vs Goliath.
> 
> The first priority is to get terminated drivers' jobs back (so long as the firings were unjust). Collection for damages can be done later via court.


I guess the joke here, is that based on what they "pay" us, we would end up compensating them for unpaid wages.

The real obstacle I think is small claims isn't cheap anymore, you'll pay $500 in court fees and lose your time and money to a technicality.

Now if you were suing a collection agency or something, you could gain fines etc that have been established.


----------



## justascientist

MnyfrNthng said:


> The agent told me that unless we are not employee the Labor department does not care.


As Lincoln put it, "It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the companies, by the companies, for the companies, shall not perish from the earth."


----------



## Robert Dottery

Judge and Jury said:


> This is an Internet forum.
> 
> It is not a one hour television extravaganza.


Stop trying to make this a "career". It's a gig! I know I'm making less than I did five years ago, per ride. It sounds like people who insist making fries at Burger King is a career. Nobody puts a gun to my head every morning I decide to drive for Uber. If you want a job with benefits, security, and better pay, there's a large list of jobs available.


----------



## Alltel77

If it makes you feel any better I think I just deactivated myself on DD. I'm starting a W2 job in a couple weeks but have still been going out during morning/afternoons until I start that. The offers on all apps (except GH I don't even know if they are still operating here) have been horribly low and/or ridiculous distances. Today I accepted an offer on DD $9.50 going 4.3 miles, take it pick up the food start driving to customer I am about 1/2 way there after dealing with construction, traffic, lunch traffic customer texts she put in the wrong address, the new address is all the way back in the complete opposite direction then she starts calling. It wasn't happening as a matter of fact I said "f this" call doordash after finally getting through , the rep says the customer called them with the new address and to go there, I say nope! I tell her as a matter of fact I'm not going to continue to the original address this is beyond ridiculous. The rep says I need to take the food back to the restaurant so they can send someone else, I said not happening. She then proceeds to tell me I must go back to the restaurant I say nope hung up the phone, turned off the phone. By the time I got home it was timed out and the order was gone, they paid me for the order and sent an email about the Independent Contractor Agreement. They can go ahead and deactivate me because the app is never going to be turned back on.


----------



## yankees992013

Robert Dottery said:


> Stop trying to make this a "career". It's a gig! I know I'm making less than I did five years ago, per ride. It sounds like people who insist making fries at Burger King is a career. Nobody puts a gun to my head every morning I decide to drive for Uber. If you want a job with benefits, security, and better pay, there's a large list of jobs available.



Agreed, With millions of jobs unfilled as of Aug 2022. A lot of full-time paying jobs raised their wages that's highly competitive. It's a wonder, why anyone would want to depend on a "gig" job, is beyond me.


----------



## donbrownzd

Robert Dottery said:


> Stop trying to make this a "career". It's a gig! I know I'm making less than I did five years ago, per ride. It sounds like people who insist making fries at Burger King is a career. Nobody puts a gun to my head every morning I decide to drive for Uber. If you want a job with benefits, security, and better pay, there's a large list of jobs available.



Seriously, this is not a job, it is an "extra money" thing. You will never compete with real taxi drivers that make real money and real salaries. Nor will you put any real dent in the freight business, nor the courier business.

If the job doesn't pay, don't take it. Gas costs money, if you are not getting paid well do something else. In my day, many of us worked "security" jobs from 4pm to 11pm to pay for university tuition, beer, food and rent.

They (companies) all paid 1 to 2 dollar over minimum wage to start. Turnover was expected. These are not "occupations" or "careers" these are extra money. Stop trying to make uber, door dash, or these other companies a "job" or "occupation." They are not and never were intended to be.

The primary goal of these companies is to line their pockets without paying the licensing fees that other entities, such as taxis and limos pay. I just don't understand why people keep griping about it. It must be laziness. They profit at your laziness.

As an edit: I did drive UBER for about 4 months. After 1 month, all the promo, cherry picked rides stopped and I got all the crap $3-7 dollar trips all over town. I rarely got a $20 + dollar ride. I gave it 3 more months, tracked expenses, time, and even idle time in a parking lot because it was cold outside (snowing).

The truth, I initially made about $26 dollars per hour during the first month of uber'ing, that then dropped to about $5-9 dollars per hour depending on the week. Then with expenses other than gas, which were not accounted for, I made even less.

Uber uses a casino model, I did not bean to bash anyone, my post was not deisgned to be that way. Uber tricks you into thinking you are making money, when in fact you are working for free or break even. You seldom profit after honest expenses in the long term. The casino model refers to your first month being awesome trips, long rides, easy fast money....

You can bartend for $40 bucks an hour (with tips) at a steakhouse or 3-4 star restaurant. And that fry guy at Burger King now makes at least $14.00 per hour gross here in CT.

Don


----------



## DrvrChgo1

Judge and Jury said:


> You're a super poopy head, with stupid opinions and it seems that the stick stuck up your butt is making you irritable and irrational.


That individual probably keeps saying “try harder” because it’s so stuck in his head from hearing it told to him repeatedly from many people.🤷🏽‍♂️ 
Some seem to get really upset when others can be successful in a situation when maybe they aren’t. And all they can resort to is finding fault with everything and everyone else.


----------



## Wil Mette

As an employee, DD can fire you at any time & for any reason except for race, creed, ...

That is one reason that most Uber drivers want to become ICs.


----------



## JohnRubyNagel

Kmac95 said:


> They deactivated me also but I just made a new account and used a new email and phone number


Still same SS numbers.


----------



## STRIDERr

I've been doing doordash full time for 2 years.. it was fine... until just recently about a month ago DoorDash no longer allows me to schedule any shift in the morning. My schedule was always from like 7 am - 1 pm.. Then out of no where it only allows me to schedule from 11am or 11:30 am on... other people have said the same thing.. and it doesnt matter where I go.. I travelled 3 hours away to a different town for something.. and tried scheduling there.. same thing.. dont know if its just the "summer slowdown" ?????? or doordash dying... or DoorDash giving those hours to the idiots called "top dashers" who take $3.00 orders just to keep their acceptance rate at 70%.

DoorDash recently reset my acceptance rate to 50% and started sending me "higher paying orders" until sept 8.. in an attempt to sucker me into raising my acceptance rate to 50% or more.. If I keep my acceptance rate at 50% or more they'll keep sending me these higher paying deliveries which are rare to see anyway.. DoorDash needs more fools to take their shit orders. out of 10 orders maybe 3 are decent enough to take with DoorDash. 

When I first started doordash back in august 2020 my acceptance rate was always like 70% - 80%... now its like 10%


----------



## Ms. Mercenary

donbrownzd said:


> Seriously, this is not a job, it is an "extra money" thing. You will never compete with real taxi drivers that make real money and real salaries. Nor will you put any real dent in the freight business, nor the courier business.
> 
> If the job doesn't pay, don't take it. Gas costs money, if you are not getting paid well do something else. In my day, many of us worked "security" jobs from 4pm to 11pm to pay for university tuition, beer, food and rent.
> 
> They (companies) all paid 1 to 2 dollar over minimum wage to start. Turnover was expected. These are not "occupations" or "careers" these are extra money. Stop trying to make uber, door dash, or these other companies a "job" or "occupation." They are not and never were intended to be.
> 
> The primary goal of these companies is to line their pockets without paying the licensing fees that other entities, such as taxis and limos pay. I just don't understand why people keep griping about it. It must be laziness. They profit at your laziness.
> 
> As an edit: I did drive UBER for about 4 months. After 1 month, all the promo, cherry picked rides stopped and I got all the crap $3-7 dollar trips all over town. I rarely got a $20 + dollar ride. I gave it 3 more months, tracked expenses, time, and even idle time in a parking lot because it was cold outside (snowing).
> 
> The truth, I initially made about $26 dollars per hour during the first month of uber'ing, that then dropped to about $5-9 dollars per hour depending on the week. Then with expenses other than gas, which were not accounted for, I made even less.
> 
> Uber uses a casino model, I did not bean to bash anyone, my post was not deisgned to be that way. Uber tricks you into thinking you are making money, when in fact you are working for free or break even. You seldom profit after honest expenses in the long term. The casino model refers to your first month being awesome trips, long rides, easy fast money....
> 
> You can bartend for $40 bucks an hour (with tips) at a steakhouse or 3-4 star restaurant. And that fry guy at Burger King now makes at least $14.00 per hour gross here in CT.
> 
> Don


I will never understand people. 










You joined a forum specifically to tell people you DO NOT do what they do and what the entire forum is about? What’s your reasoning?


----------



## mrmikecoop4000

ConkeyCrack said:


> My AR was bloody awful. Don't know exactly what is was but it's on par with your friend. If they deactivated me because my AR, that's fine. Just let me know that's why I was deactivated instead of leaving it a mystery.


See the thing is. They can't legally deactivate you because of your AR. So they wouldn't tell you that.


----------



## Alltel77

STRIDERr said:


> I've been doing doordash full time for 2 years.. it was fine... until just recently about a month ago DoorDash no longer allows me to schedule any shift in the morning. My schedule was always from like 7 am - 1 pm.. Then out of no where it only allows me to schedule from 11am or 11:30 am on... other people have said the same thing.. and it doesnt matter where I go.. I travelled 3 hours away to a different town for something.. and tried scheduling there.. same thing.. dont know if its just the "summer slowdown" ?????? or doordash dying... or DoorDash giving those hours to the idiots called "top dashers" who take $3.00 orders just to keep their acceptance rate at 70%.
> 
> DoorDash recently reset my acceptance rate to 50% and started sending me "higher paying orders" until sept 8.. in an attempt to sucker me into raising my acceptance rate to 50% or more.. If I keep my acceptance rate at 50% or more they'll keep sending me these higher paying deliveries which are rare to see anyway.. DoorDash needs more fools to take their shit orders. out of 10 orders maybe 3 are decent enough to take with DoorDash.
> 
> When I first started doordash back in august 2020 my acceptance rate was always like 70% - 80%... now its like 10%


I think it's because everyone started realizing you could get orders in morning and started scheduling. Lunch and dinner are oversaturated so I had started working early morning until about 1pm then the same thing started happening couldn't schedule until 11pm


----------



## Rideshare drv

DrvrChgo1 said:


> “ and as for independent contractor we are NOT.
> if you can not set your own rates or decide who do you want to deal with it without getting punish then you are not independent contractor. and as for suing these apps a true independent contractor can sue a customer for failing to pay for services the IC provided”
> 
> I hear many claims saying “that because of…, or “if you can answer yes to this or not to that”. Then you are an iC or no you are. It an IC.
> But I never see anyone prove their statements by citing a specific Department Regulation, a specific statute or law, or specific court ruling and from what jurisdiction, or published case law that shows proof of their statement.
> Where do your claims above come from? What are the grounds that show this is legally how IC status is determined.
> I’m not necessarily saying you are wrong, nor agreeing you are correct. I’m only looking for some proof the justifies your claim, or is that merely your opinion you think a determination should be made?



See the problem with you people you want proof. you want everything serve in a golden plate, 
if you want proof go do your own research by talking to people who are true independent contractors, 
i will give you multiple hints. those who owns a company or business like a store or construction company,
ask a band or musician, ask a trucker, ask a photographer, ask the person in the lunch truck, 
there are hundreds of good example for jobs as an independent contractors and all of them will tell you the
exact same thing. I SET THE RATES, I SET THE DAYS I WANT TO WORK, 
I CHOOSE WHO I WANT TO DEAL WITH IT, I CHOOSE WHEN I AM AVAILABLE TO START A JOB.
(EVERYTHING IS ABOUT I CHOOSE I SET WITHOUT PENALTIES)
your responses to say i choose when to accept a ride OR what days i work is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
because YOU DO NOT SET YOUR OWN RATES, if you declined too many rides YOU ARE PUT ON A TANK OR SOMETIMES LOG OUT and on the extreme cases DEACTIVATED. and then you are done nothing else to do.
because you get no help from any of this gig apps. and now you are stuck struggling to make ends meat because most drivers relay solely on driving and very few have a full time hourly job.
while a TRUE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR if a job fails because it was not your fault you take your customer to court and 99% you will win your case. and while the court may take weeks or months on the mean time you are working on other jobs sites as a TRU INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR.
i believe with this explanation i can not be more clear than water but if you are stubborn then no matter how many examples or (proofs) people might give you you will keep denying the true that you are NOT an I.C.
If i am stating this facts is because i was once a gig worker i did Uber ,Lyft. Bounce, Instacart, Postmates, GH, DD,
and other couple and all of them when they started the pay was good but as soon as they popular they started cutting rates to drivers to the point that is no longer profitable to work for those apps,
I am working on posting a video on YouTube that will reflect the actual livelihood of a gig worker.
and in it will reflect also the difference between the livelihood of a true I.C.
perhaps this video might fight back all the false advertisement those apps use to lure new drivers with nothing but false and empty promises.


----------



## Ms. Mercenary

Alltel77 said:


> I think it's because everyone started realizing you could get orders in morning and started scheduling. Lunch and dinner are oversaturated so I had started working early morning until about 1pm then the same thing started happening couldn't schedule until 11pm


I quit scheduling, period. Very rarely. If it’s busy - Dash is open. If it’s not busy - not worth even trying.

I actually use DD map to see what’s happening on UE, too. For me and in my market, this works.

I do schedule DD off-season, when I know UE will be dead slow. But I just do blocks for the entire week with half-hour breaks between. I don’t schedule long dashes ever (7-9; 9:30-11; 11:30-2:30; 3-4:30), except for 17 to 21.

That way if it’s dead I can end dash without cancelling my full day.

I also pause dash when delivering UE orders, and on occasion run over the pause limit. This way I’m not kicked out of an entire day.


----------



## Rideshare drv

DrvrChgo1 said:


> I’m asking you the same question I ask others that make statements about what determines your IC or employee claim:
> 
> I hear many claims saying “that because of…, or “if you can answer yes to this or not to that”. Then you are an iC or no you are. It an IC.
> But I never see anyone prove their statements by citing a specific Department Regulation, a specific statute or law, or specific court ruling and from what jurisdiction, or published case law that shows proof of their statement.
> Where do your claims above come from? What are the grounds that show this is legally how IC status is determined.
> I’m not necessarily saying you are wrong, nor agreeing you are correct. I’m only looking for some proof the justifies your claim, or is that merely your opinion you think a determination should be made?


See the problem with some people you want proof. you want everything serve in a golden plate,
if you want proof go do your own research search the law in another state like for example California AB5 Or
by talking to people who are true independent contractors,
i will give you multiple hints. those who owns a company or business like a store or construction company,
ask a band or musician, ask a trucker, ask a photographer, ask the person in the lunch truck,
there are hundreds of good example for jobs as an independent contractors and all of them will tell you the
exact same thing. I SET THE RATES, I SET THE DAYS I WANT TO WORK,
I CHOOSE WHO I WANT TO DEAL WITH IT, I CHOOSE WHEN I AM AVAILABLE TO START A JOB.
(EVERYTHING IS ABOUT I CHOOSE I SET WITHOUT PENALTIES)
your responses to say i choose when to accept a ride OR what days i work is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
because YOU DO NOT SET YOUR OWN RATES, if you declined too many rides YOU ARE PUT ON A TANK OR SOMETIMES LOG OUT and on the extreme cases DEACTIVATED. and then you are done nothing else to do.
because you get no help from any of this gig apps. and now you are stuck struggling to make ends meat because most drivers relay solely on driving and very few have a full time hourly job.
while a TRUE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR if a job fails because it was not your fault you take your customer to court and 99% you will win your case. and while the court may take weeks or months on the mean time you are working on other jobs sites as a TRU INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR.
i believe with this explanation i can not be more clear than water but if you are stubborn then no matter how many examples or (proofs) people might give you you will keep denying the true that you are NOT an I.C.
If i am stating this facts is because i was once a gig worker i did Uber ,Lyft. Bounce, Instacart, Postmates, GH, DD,
and other couple and all of them when they started the pay was good but as soon as they popular they started cutting rates to drivers to the point that is no longer profitable to work for those apps,
I am working on posting a video on YouTube that will reflect the actual livelihood of a gig worker.
and in it will reflect also the difference between the livelihood of a true I.C.
perhaps this video might fight back all the false advertisement those apps use to lure new drivers with nothing but false and empty promises.


----------



## Alltel77

Ms. Mercenary said:


> I quit scheduling, period. Very rarely. If it’s busy - Dash is open. If it’s not busy - not worth even trying.
> 
> I actually use DD map to see what’s happening on UE, too. For me and in my market, this works.
> 
> I do schedule DD off-season, when I know UE will be dead slow. But I just do blocks for the entire week with half-hour breaks between. I don’t schedule long dashes ever (7-9; 9:30-11; 11:30-2:30; 3-4:30), except for 17 to 21.
> 
> That way if it’s dead I can end dash without cancelling my full day.
> 
> I also pause dash when delivering UE orders, and on occasion run over the pause limit. This way I’m not kicked out of an entire day.


Yeah here Dash Now does randomly pop up but it can be bright red with 4 bars and you still have 5-10 people sitting in every parking lot on all four corners waiting for orders or just rejecting the asnine orders these apps spew out nowadays.


----------



## Highlander712

Ms. Mercenary said:


> I will never understand people.
> 
> View attachment 674951
> 
> 
> You joined a forum specifically to tell people you DO NOT do what they do and what the entire forum is about? What’s your reasoning?



That is one reason why I gave up on the DD reddit. Everyday, tons of posts, "Don't complain, go get a REAL job, that is what I do" 

Funny, I worked for a company for 16 years, only for them to figure out a way to outsource. Hundreds of employees all over the country out of work, some of there for 30 years.
Worked five years for another company, that figured out a way to automate several components, and figured out how to cut out middle management. Massive layoffs. 

I originally did this part time. But now, I am generally working 40-50 hours a week, and bringing home around 800-900 a week, which is a lot in Memphis TN. So, no point in going to a board and reading, "Some people need a REAL job" all day every day.


----------



## STRIDERr

Alltel77 said:


> I think it's because everyone started realizing you could get orders in morning and started scheduling. Lunch and dinner are oversaturated so I had started working early morning until about 1pm then the same thing started happening couldn't schedule until 11pm


I schedule at 3 or 4 am for 6 days out.. there's no way all the spots could be filled. I suppose I can try one night to wait until 12 am then see if a spot is open


----------



## Alltel77

Highlander712 said:


> That is one reason why I gave up on the DD reddit. Everyday, tons of posts, "Don't complain, go get a REAL job, that is what I do"
> 
> Funny, I worked for a company for 16 years, only for them to figure out a way to outsource. Hundreds of employees all over the country out of work, some of there for 30 years.
> Worked five years for another company, that figured out a way to automate several components, and figured out how to cut out middle management. Massive layoffs.
> 
> I originally did this part time. But now, I am generally working 40-50 hours a week, and bringing home around 800-900 a week, which is a lot in Memphis TN. So, no point in going to a board and reading, "Some people need a REAL job" all day every day.


Well, technically the apps are doing the same thing now. Especially in my market. They are just able to outsource onshore with whatever comes across the border and is willing to drive 10 miles for $3. They also make empty threats like acceptance rate and cancel prior to pick up to take advantage of people who know no better.


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## Seamus

@ConkeyCrack, because you are in NYC you may be able to force them to give you an answer.

Third-party food delivery apps are required to have a* Department of Consumer and Worker Protection (DCWP) license* to operate in New York City. 

If you want to put the effort in, on their website they have a process for you to file a complaint.


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## DrvrChgo1

Rideshare drv said:


> See the problem with you people you want proof. you want everything serve in a golden plate,
> if you want proof go do your own research by talking to people who are true independent contractors,
> i will give you multiple hints. those who owns a company or business like a store or construction company,
> ask a band or musician, ask a trucker, ask a photographer, ask the person in the lunch truck,
> there are hundreds of good example for jobs as an independent contractors and all of them will tell you the
> exact same thing. I SET THE RATES, I SET THE DAYS I WANT TO WORK,
> I CHOOSE WHO I WANT TO DEAL WITH IT, I CHOOSE WHEN I AM AVAILABLE TO START A JOB.
> (EVERYTHING IS ABOUT I CHOOSE I SET WITHOUT PENALTIES)
> your responses to say i choose when to accept a ride OR what days i work is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
> because YOU DO NOT SET YOUR OWN RATES, if you declined too many rides YOU ARE PUT ON A TANK OR SOMETIMES LOG OUT and on the extreme cases DEACTIVATED. and then you are done nothing else to do.
> because you get no help from any of this gig apps. and now you are stuck struggling to make ends meat because most drivers relay solely on driving and very few have a full time hourly job.
> while a TRUE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR if a job fails because it was not your fault you take your customer to court and 99% you will win your case. and while the court may take weeks or months on the mean time you are working on other jobs sites as a TRU INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR.
> i believe with this explanation i can not be more clear than water but if you are stubborn then no matter how many examples or (proofs) people might give you you will keep denying the true that you are NOT an I.C.
> If i am stating this facts is because i was once a gig worker i did Uber ,Lyft. Bounce, Instacart, Postmates, GH, DD,
> and other couple and all of them when they started the pay was good but as soon as they popular they started cutting rates to drivers to the point that is no longer profitable to work for those apps,
> I am working on posting a video on YouTube that will reflect the actual livelihood of a gig worker.
> and in it will reflect also the difference between the livelihood of a true I.C.
> perhaps this video might fight back all the false advertisement those apps use to lure new drivers with nothing but false and empty promises.


Who is the “you people” group that you assume I must be a part of?
To be clear, I don’t need or “want everything served on a golden plate” as you say. I’ll serve myself, Thank you.
I’ve also already done my research. I know and talk to people in those occupations you listed. In the 40 years I have been working, 30 of those years I have either owned and ran my own business or was hired as an IC to perform work for their business. Only 10 years did I do work as an employee. So I’m not new to this.

The problem with your argument is that it is incomplete and inaccurate. I agree that people in all those examples you gave can probably honestly tell me that they set their own price or rates. And they may have total or a degree of control over the other items listed as well.

However, the ability to set your own price/rates is not one of things absolutely needed to be classified as an IC. There are No guidelines stating that because you don’t control the price/rates you are therefor an employee, not an IC.
In fact, the IRS publication
*“Independent Contractor Defined” says:
“ However, whether these people are independent contractors or employees depends on the facts in each case. The general rule is that an individual is an independent contractor if the payer has the right to control or direct only the result of the work and not what will be done and how it will be done.”

“You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done). This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed.*

And there is this from IRS:

I*ndependent Contractor (Self Employed) or Employee?
“In determining whether the person
providing service is an employee or an independent contractor, all information that provides evidence of the degree of control and independence must be considered.”
Common Law Rules
Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories:*

*Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?*
*Financial: Are the business aspects of the worker’s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)*
*Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?*
*Businesses must weigh all these factors when determining whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor. Some factors may indicate that the worker is an employee, while other factors indicate that the worker is an independent contractor. There is no “magic” or set number of factors that “makes” the worker an employee or an independent contractor and no one factor stands alone in making this determination. Also, factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another.*


so you can clearly see that determining classification is based on MANY factors. And just because a certain factor is true in one situation doesn’t mean that if it is true in another situation the clasdification will be the same.

it may be your desire that just because we do not decide what the customer is charged or what rate we receive that we must therefore be an employee.

But that is not the legalities of how the process works. Just because it’s your opinion that the presence or absence of certain Conditions should therefore determine a specific outcome does not mean that’s what the law, rules or regulations state.
Until and unless those parameters are changed through legislation or policy then that’s what current decisions are based on.

it’s also not true that “most drivers relay solely on driving and very few have a full time hourly job.”
It’s just the opposite. Most drivers drive only part time and have another job as their main work and source of income. 

“Drivers that are online for at least 40 hours a week—“full-time” drivers—account for just 9 percent of the Golden State’s Uber drivers.”
From: 
*Yes, Ridesharing Is Mainly a Part-Time Gig*

BLOG
Sean Higgins • 09/25/2020


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## Highlander712

Alltel77 said:


> Well, technically the apps are doing the same thing now. Especially in my market. They are just able to outsource onshore with whatever comes across the border and is willing to drive 10 miles for $3. They also make empty threats like acceptance rate and cancel prior to pick up to take advantage of people who know no better.


I am not saying there are not problems with these apps.Hell, when I was new, I was taking garbage orders. Taking everything that came across my screen. I found out, quite by accident, that I COULD decline an order. There are days when it sucks and days when it doesn't. 


I just get a bit irked when I hear people on Reddit talking about a "REAL" job. For example, I had someone say, "Well I could be making seven figures in an office playing with video games rather than doing this" If someone thinks that someone in an office is making seven figures, fiddling with video games and doing nothing all day, I got a bridge to sell them with some oceanfront property in Arizona.

Sure there are drawbacks, risks, and other cons to what I do, but for right now, it is working okay for me. There are days when I miss being able to punch a clock somewhere. But then again, I think about all the workplace dramas, bad managers, being expected to work a lot of overtime when it is busy, then getting hours cut when it is slow, and all the other hassles.

It is scary to think of being in the OP's situation, getting deactivated without any reason at all and not being able to even find out why. It is in the back of my mind when I drive all the time. But, I have had jobs that were guaranteed security, vanish as well.


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## Woohaa

Ms. Mercenary said:


> Why CBS? Put it on Bravo!
> 
> “The Real Drivers of the Gig Economy”.


I'd watch. ((shrugs))


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