# Letter to Mayor Garcetti of Los Angeles & LA Times Writers



## pissedoff (Aug 23, 2014)

subject:
*don't forget the App and Taxi drivers who are being exploited.*

to:

[email protected]
cc: [email protected],
[email protected]

Mayor Garcetti (or the staff member who is actually reading this.) Regarding the article http://www.latimes.com/local/cityhall/la-me-garcetti-wage-20140902-story.html#page=1 where you are calling for a $13.75 minimum wage by 2017, look at everyone who is being exploited.

I drive for one of the ride sharing companies (uber, lyft, sidecar, etc.) I won't tell you which, but they're all the same.

If you want to talk about exploitation, if you look at the rate cuts, commissions and the surge of driver hiring, we're not making money anymore. The passengers win with quick and efficient service, the drivers lose more and more each week. One of the services is encouraging an oversupply of drivers with its commission win-back program to incentivize drivers to work 50+ hours a week.

For months I made OK money, then they added a ton of drivers, cut the rates to passengers, hid the tip button, then took back the commissions they were forgoing, and now it's become horrible for the drivers. I can wait 45 minutes to an hour to get a request, and then sometimes I drive 5 miles to take a passenger less than a mile. Last night after taxes and expenses I made $.85/hour. if you missed the decimal point, that's eighty five cents per hour. On a great day, I'm netting $8 hour after taxes. Other drivers will say that they're making money hand-over-fist, but they're either taking cash tips when is against the rules,or these drivers are receiving preferential treatment by not complaining on the official Facebook driver's forum.

We help by providing a good service taking drunks off the road, alleviating traffic and parking problems for the city at large and we're paying for it. The companies when they issue their IPOs will cash out on our backs and wear and tear on our cars and our personal lives. If the companies want to reward long time drivers, give them stock options based on the number of hours logged before the IPO.

Please do what Seattle had the good sense to do--and then take away--limit the number of Lyft, Uber, etc. cars on the road so that the taxis and the "App drivers" can make money. The passengers will have to wait a few more minutes, so what. If my number comes up and I'm not part of the party, so be it. It's better for some to make money than everyone to make nothing.

But let's be clear on one point, taxi drivers brought this on themselves. I could tell you 20 ways Lyft and Uber are better than taxis and I will never take a taxi in LA again unless the Uber, Lyft etc. go away, which maybe they should because of how they treat their drivers, and the passengers are just as bad.

We are the ones who are being exploited the most. If I don't see change to benefit drivers soon, I'm done. They can have my mustache, rented phone and go to.... These companies should also be taken to task for continually advertising $35+/hour. Their own app indicates gross hourly pay of $10-$20 based on previous data. But I would submit in LA that's more like $5-$15. Please shed some light on this problem and help everyone.

Signed: DriverX
CC: the two authors of the above-named article.


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## pissedoff (Aug 23, 2014)

Interesting, one of the LA Times writers wrote back to me and is interested in talking, time availing.


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## ac148 (Aug 22, 2014)

pissedoff said:


> Interesting, one of the LA Times writers wrote back to me and is interested in talking, time availing.


That's awesome! Starting to see more and more press covering this issue. Slow and steady.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Uber drivers are independent contractors, and it has been historically difficult to get politicians sympathetic to independent contractors, all the laws are for employees.
There isn't much for a politician, except for "misleading advertising of earnings" to sink his or her teeth into. 

so.....

Where UBer should be attacked, and rightfully so, is deceptive earnings promises. That area has a lot more traction potential.

So, deceptive advertising, misleading earnings, that is what everyone should write to TV stations, to politicians, anyone with a public forum, etc. about.


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## ac148 (Aug 22, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> Uber drivers are independent contractors, and it has been historically difficult to get politicians sympathetic to independent contractors, all the laws are for employees.
> There isn't much for a politician, except for "misleading advertising of earnings" to sink his or her teeth into.
> 
> so.....
> ...


Totally on point. They are still running roughshod all over Craigslist with their misleading ads promising earnings based on their very incorrect 'fully utilized' calculation which is actually impossible in reality.

I've been trying to contact Craigslist regarding this matter and asking them to take a serious look at what they are allowing to be posted on their site.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Drivers should start flagging the Craigslist ads while they are sitting parked and waitingfor the next ping. Multiple flags of the same repeated ads triggers auto delete function on Craigslist!

https://uberpeople.net/threads/please-take-some-action.2733/#post-30384


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## pissedoff (Aug 23, 2014)

Not all of the people posting on Craigslist are L or U employees. They too are independents who are trying to drum up suckers to get referral bonuses for sourcing new pawns.

While the politicians may not care about independent contractors, they do care about the taxi unions. Raise the rates for Uber and Lyft and then there is less of a difference. Or the politicians can pander to the taxi unions by forcing a limit of Uber and Lyft drivers in LA.

I'm not going to use the S word here. If there were enough drivers who wanted to "take a day off" and show the community how under appreciated we are, that would be a dramatic point. Back in the 60s? 70s? women burned bras to make a point. Maybe it's time to burn mustaches and something with a U.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

All the ads in Chicago posted by Uber employees. They don't control a referral code, and link directly to the Uber Driver signup page.


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## philasuburb (Aug 27, 2014)

We are independent contractors. All your letter can accomplish is to force Uber to employ us on a W-2 for minimum wage.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

philasuburb said:


> We are independent contractors. All your letter can accomplish is to force Uber to employ us on a W-2 for minimum wage.


Oh really? We really are Independent Contractors? I wasn't aware of that! Did any one else know that?
Guess that means that we have no right to petition an elected mayor then? Because even making him aware of the drivers woes would be futile then, I guess.
(Sarcasm)


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## Barbara Bitela (Jul 14, 2014)

re
"But let's be clear on one point, taxi drivers brought this on themselves."

Yup.

_*Necessity is the mother of the app.*_


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## Barbara Bitela (Jul 14, 2014)

pissedoff said:


> Interesting, one of the LA Times writers wrote back to me and is interested in talking, time availing.


use caution ! but do it
for reals
caution


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

ac148 said:


> Totally on point. They are still running roughshod all over Craigslist with their misleading ads promising earnings based on their very incorrect 'fully utilized' calculation which is actually impossible in reality.
> 
> I've been trying to contact Craigslist regarding this matter and asking them to take a serious look at what they are allowing to be posted on their site.


Contacting craigslist is a losing battle as well, I've been down that path with companies looking to exploit interns, where no pay is clearly illegal an many instances,
and CL took no notice, nor did they care. The best thing might be for all drivers in there communites to post a whistleblowing post on teh "gigs" page ( it's free ) and flag all the uber ads. You whistleblower posts will get flagged, but just repost, and keep doing it, and the word will get out.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Oh really? We really are Independent Contractors? I wasn't aware of that! Did any one else know that?
> Guess that means that we have no right to petition an elected mayor then? Because even making him aware of the drivers woes would be futile then, I guess.
> (Sarcasm)


I appreciate the sarcasm, I'm just sayin' where the traction action most likely will be.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Barbara Bitela said:


> re
> "But let's be clear on one point, taxi drivers brought this on themselves."
> 
> Yup.
> ...


Excuse my ignorance @Barbara Bitela , please! What to taxi drivers have to do with the UberX drivers earnings being slashed by Uber in LA? LA UberX rates were already 50% lower than taxi rates, fyi.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Barbara Bitela said:


> use caution ! but do it
> for reals
> caution


Ask the journalist to call you, interveiw you, because he can ask a lot of relevant question he knows will be more poignant for the readers, and flesh out of you what such an article really needs. That's my advice, anyway.


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## philasuburb (Aug 27, 2014)

Could be harmful. Actually, it is futile. We drive a car. Period. What does everyone on this forum expect to be paid as an independent contractor?


chi1cabby said:


> Oh really? We really are Independent Contractors? I wasn't aware of that! Did any one else know that?
> Guess that means that we have no right to petition an elected mayor then? Because even making him aware of the drivers woes would be futile then, I guess.
> (Sarcasm)


The first sentence in the letter seems to make a point regarding minimum wage. Its a bad introduction regarding drivers who are self-employed.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

philasuburb said:


> Could be harmful. Actually, it is futile. We drive a car. Period. What does everyone on this forum expect to be paid as an independent contractor?
> 
> The first sentence in the letter seems to make a point regarding minimum wage. Its a bad introduction regarding drivers who are self-employed.


He is actually doing something! I'm sorry, but you are nit picking his efforts for the drivers to actually be heard!


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## philasuburb (Aug 27, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> He is actually doing something! I'm sorry, but you are nit picking his efforts for the drivers to actually be heard!


You are right on that, and for that I apologies. I do wish him luck and feel for the X drivers in the rate reduced markets.


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## pissedoff (Aug 23, 2014)

Minimum wage for employees is a separate issue from working as an "independent contractor," true. The core of the matter is the exchange of money for time and effort, and in this case, add wear and tear. I am against high minimum wages for what used to be high-school student and part-time jobs. I don't think anyone ever expected to raise a family and buy a house working at McDonalds. As more middle class people are pushed to the fringes, they rely on supplemental income.

The problem is, these ride sharing efforts are money-losing propositions sometimes, and on balance, it's not worth it.

Let's say you go to your 9-5 and at the end of the day you are told that you made nothing that day, and you have to take a 20 from your wallet and leave it in the jar on your way out the door. Paint the picture with those colors and let's see how rosy things look.


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## philasuburb (Aug 27, 2014)

pissedoff said:


> Minimum wage for employees is a separate issue from working as an "independent contractor," true. The core of the matter is the exchange of money for time and effort, and in this case, add wear and tear. I am against high minimum wages for what used to be high-school student and part-time jobs. I don't think anyone ever expected to raise a family and buy a house working at McDonalds. As more middle class people are pushed to the fringes, they rely on supplemental income.
> 
> The problem is, these ride sharing efforts are money-losing propositions sometimes, and on balance, it's not worth it.
> 
> Let's say you go to your 9-5 and at the end of the day you are told that you made nothing that day, and you have to take a 20 from your wallet and leave it in the jar on your way out the door. Paint the picture with those colors and let's see how rosy things look.


I want to get off my high horse regarding my previous posts on this thread. I'm in support of the exploitation logic regarding the drivers. I'm behind your efforts. Please use caution as mentioned by other(s) in this thread


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## pissedoff (Aug 23, 2014)

If driving was my only source of income, I would be both more stressed about not making money doing it, and more stressed about speaking out against it. With one fewer driver, there will be more work for you. I need to see some positive change before I can feel good about this program. Keep the shiny side up.


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## Barbara Bitela (Jul 14, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Oh really? We really are Independent Contractors? I wasn't aware of that! Did any one else know that?
> Guess that means that we have no right to petition an elected mayor then? Because even making him aware of the drivers woes would be futile then, I guess.
> (Sarcasm)


"Bazzinga!"


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## puber (Aug 31, 2014)

I don't see how limiting # of hours can benefit me.


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## pissedoff (Aug 23, 2014)

The number of drivers needs to be limited. There are too many and the requests are less frequent per driver. The passengers win because they have shorter wait times with so many cars. The company wins because they get their 20% regardless of who is driving. The drivers lose. The only way to improve the situation for drivers is to increase the rate which also benefits the companies with a higher commission. The companies would lose market share unless both raise their rates which they won't do while they are trying to gain.


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## SeahawkTim (Apr 29, 2014)

philasuburb said:


> We are independent contractors. All your letter can accomplish is to force Uber to employ us on a W-2 for minimum wage.


You do realize that would be preferable to what's happening now, right?


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## pissedoff (Aug 23, 2014)

W2 would be preferential as they would have to pay mileage @ $.56 as an employee and we'd be guaranteed the state's minimum wage, which is more than I made this week.


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## SeahawkTim (Apr 29, 2014)

Not to mention drivers not being subjected to the self-employment tax and health insurance for those who drive more than 30 hours.


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