# Why do people care about depreciation so much?



## kay_ (Nov 20, 2016)

It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway. 

It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

Because the whole idea of working, is to _increase _your wealth.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

My experience with depreciation discussions is that people who discuss depreciation have no real clue what the word means, or how it is applied in real life.


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## CrazyT (Jul 2, 2016)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


Even with a brand new car, I drive a 2016 Prius, I'm not worried about it. Cars are an asset, yes, but they always depreciate rapidly. Depending on the car you can lose a few thousand in value just taking it off the lot. My Prius is a business asset, but not an investment. The only time you can increase wealth with a car as an investment is to have collector cars and a strong economy to sell them if needed.

As much as I love cars, unless we're talking about classic American heavy metal, they're all disposable and get tossed when you're done with them.


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## Delivery Mr.Guy (Aug 9, 2016)

Example: Uber driver invested $20K on the car for a business, after 4 years driven for Uber than he need another 20k to replace a new car.
If some one else invested $20k in stock or own gold bar or own a cell phone shop or pizza shop than after 4 years the $20k is turned into $200k.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Depreciation affects how much you may get when you trade in your car. If you only plan on using one car your whole life, don't worry about it.


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## A_Driver (Dec 2, 2016)

I have a new car. I get a stipend from my full time job of about $450 a month to cover the car and insurance @ 75%, they figure I use it for personal use, I should have to pay something. Plus they pay a variable mileage rate to cover fuel and maintanince. I drive 35-40k miles a year for my full time gig. My stipend covers the cost of me buying a new $20k car every 4 years. My situation is not common, but depreciation isn't an issue for me. For everyone else, you need to consider the big picture. Your basically borrowing money from Uber against your vehicles value in most cases.


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

Driving and Driven said:


> Depreciation affects how much you may get when you trade in your car. If you only plan on using one car your whole life, don't worry about it.


Which is fine if you just received news from your doctor that you have 10 years to live.

Depreciation isn't some abstract concept. It is an estimate in regards to the concrete worth of your car.

That is not to say that it's necessarily 100% accurate, or that planning to own a car for the life of the car, and having good fortune and great maintenance can't lower the wealth-depleting effects of depreciation to a degree.

The main point (attempting to be) stressed, is that you properly consider REALITY when calculating net profit. You don't get to do the breakdown and let opinions overrule factual realities.
I mean, you can, but then it's a 'delusion that you crafted to conform to your confirmation bias', not a 'net profit/loss financial statement'.


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

I don't care about depreciation. I care about how profitable this gig is and it's not that impressive here. I had 2 snot nosed little kids try to get me to take them to school today without an adult accompanying them. That's the kind of stuff that burns my beans! About 20 minutes total of dead driving and wasted time.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Michael Proffitt said:


> I don't care about depreciation. I care about how profitable this gig is...


If you care about how profitable it is, then you need to care about depreciation.


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> If you care about how profitable it is, then you need to care about depreciation.


Why do I need to care about depreciation when I drive a 2008 Honda Fit that I use only for Uber? When I am done with Uber, I will sell it for KBB value. What about depreciation do I need to care about?


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

*Why do people care about depreciation so much?*

*Uhmmm . ... really? *


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Michael Proffitt said:


> Why do I need to care about depreciation when I drive a 2008 Honda Fit that I use only for Uber? When I am done with Uber, I will sell it for KBB value. What about depreciation do I need to care about?


For the record, when KBB determines the value for you, they are taking into consideration depreciation. THAT, in turn, determines the cash value you will get for your trade-in or outright sale.

So, by referring to KBB, you are taking into consideration depreciation.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Michael Proffitt said:


> Why do I need to care about depreciation when I drive a 2008 Honda Fit that I use only for Uber? When I am done with Uber, I will sell it for KBB value. What about depreciation do I need to care about?


Lol.. wow.

It's simple math man.

If you paid 15k for the car. and sell it for 5k that's 10k depreciation.

If you made 25k doing uber subtract 10k for depreciation .

Or, just drive blindly don't keep track of other expenses either... why bother.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


okay.....how much did u pay for that prius including tax, fees, interest if applicable?


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> For the record, when KBB determines the value for you, they are taking into consideration depreciation. THAT, in turn, determines the cash value you will get for your trade-in or outright sale.
> 
> So, by referring to KBB, you are taking into consideration depreciation.


Okay, I see your point however the differece is less than $300 with 20k more miles on a car that is already paid off and that I'm ready to sell anyways. In 20k miles of driving for Uber/Lyft I will make far more than $300. The big factor in depreciation is age of the vehicle. So, I stand by my previous statement, I am not worried about my Honda's depreciation.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

CrazyT said:


> Even with a brand new car, I drive a 2016 Prius, I'm not worried about it. Cars are an asset, yes, but they always depreciate rapidly. Depending on the car you can lose a few thousand in value just taking it off the lot. My Prius is a business asset, but not an investment. The only time you can increase wealth with a car as an investment is to have collector cars and a strong economy to sell them if needed.
> 
> As much as I love cars, unless we're talking about classic American heavy metal, they're all disposable and get tossed when you're done with them.


well, you can slow down the rate of depreciation. thats what we're all trying to do...... since less depreciation equates out to money saved. 
[


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Michael Proffitt said:


> Okay, I see your point however the differece is less than $300 with 20k more miles on a car that is already paid off and that I'm ready to sell anyways. In 20k miles of driving for Uber/Lyft I will make far more than $300. The big factor in depreciation is age of the vehicle. So, I stand by my previous statement, I am not worried about my Honda's depreciation.


It's just good info to know as a concept in general. You will not have that car all your life. You are young and will likely have several cars. You should be familiar with the knowledge so you can make good decisions on future car deals.


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## kay_ (Nov 20, 2016)

CrazyT My thoughts exactly. My prius is an asset to make money now to survive off of. In the long run, I never expected to make profit off of Uber in all honesty because realistically none of us are. My car isn't an investment. Assets are always going to depreciate.

I guess since I'm not planning on driving Uber more than 9 months at the most. Although my car will surely depreciate, I don't believe I'll be running it into the ground.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

Michael Proffitt said:


> Okay, I see your point however the differece is less than $300 with 20k more miles on a car that is already paid off and that I'm ready to sell anyways. In 20k miles of driving for Uber/Lyft I will make far more than $300. The big factor in depreciation is age of the vehicle. So, I stand by my previous statement, I am not worried about my Honda's depreciation.


you will care about it when dealer makes u an offer for trade in.


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> Lol.. wow.
> 
> It's simple math man.
> 
> ...


Are you kidding me? Did you read the other post before posting this one? Your talking about huge effort


wk1102 said:


> Lol.. wow.
> 
> It's simple math man.
> 
> ...


You should read my other in this thread before posting, so you have a better idea of what your talking about. I see you throwing around huge baseless numbers. I already did the simple math and provided the information to another in this thread before you posted this reply.


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

freddieman said:


> you will care about it when dealer makes u an offer for trade in.


Actually I won't because I'm going to sell it flat out for KBB value. It's a 2008 Honda Fit. Already paid off years ago. I currently drive a 2015 Subaru Outback that I don't drive for Uber/Lyft. Uber/Lyft is play money and so is that Honda. It's a part time gig that I am lucky enough to be in a position to take part in. Not everyone's situation is the same.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

Michael Proffitt said:


> Actually I won't because I'm going to sell it flat out for KBB value. It's a 2008 Honda Fit. Already paid off years ago. I currently drive a 2015 Subaru Outback that I don't drive for Uber/Lyft. Uber/Lyft is play money and so is that Honda. It's a part time gig that I am lucky enough to be in a position to take part in. Not everyone's situation is the same.


depreciation has nothing to do with the car being paid off. its "profit" we're all talking about when we are talking about depreciation.

somebody paid money for u to own that honda fit.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

kay_ said:


> Assets are always going to depreciate.


My house is an asset. My house is worth now nearly 3x what I paid for it in 2007.



Michael Proffitt said:


> Are you kidding me? Did you read the other post before posting this one? Your talking about huge effort
> 
> You should read my other in this thread before posting, so you have a better idea of what your talking about. I see you throwing around huge baseless numbers. I already did the simple math and provided the information to another in this thread before you posted this reply.


The numbers were just big round numbers for ease.

Your 2008 isn't taking as much of a hit, true. I drive an 08 as well. while depreciation isn't as much of a factor, I know my repair/maintenance costs are going good to be higher.

I did not read the specifics of you post before. if you are selling your car after only 20k additional miles due to uber you are sidestepping the depression.

With older higher milage cars there will be higher repair costs. If you pay it off and sell tjen buy a newer one... yeah depreciation isn't a big deal. however you now have more overhead. It's a wash.


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## aradagebeya (Nov 21, 2016)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


I'm not going to dignify a stupid question with a well thought out answer.. so keep DOING YOU my friend!!!! You are smarter than you know!!


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## CrazyT (Jul 2, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> Depreciation affects how much you may get when you trade in your car. If you only plan on using one car your whole life, don't worry about it.


You can't really plan on trade in values either. I bought a brand new at the time 2010 Chevy Cobalt. I drive it like a normal person with work, store runs etc. maintenance was kept up on it, and it sat for 5 months at the dealer to be repaired on 3 ignition system recalls while Chevy paid for a rental. 6 years later we no longer needed it and I was getting a new car. Value on that car on Blue book was around $1200. Dealers however rarely pay book value on trades unless they have a promotion since they go through and every chip on the exterior, every diet spot on the interior is a deduction. They ended up assigning value to the car of $750. Mileage was a bit high since that car did multiple Pittsburgh to Baltimore runs when I moved and when I bought it my daily work commute (round trip) was 104 miles.

Think of a car like a pen. Buy it, use it, when it's used up get rid of it and start again. Do you expect a pen to be worth something when you're finished with it? Of course not. Yes cars cost a lot more than s pen, but they're made to be disposable, which is why on most cars if you're in an accident that pops the air bags insurance totals it.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> My house is an asset. My house is worth now nearly 3x what I paid for it in 2007.


Actually your house is only worth what someone will give you for it. There can be a thousand appraisers that give you a number based on figures, but until you have the hard money in you hand it's only a number. The Phoenix market was the gold standard for this. In 2005 your home was worth $300k. In 2007 that same home is only worth $145k. Today the numbers are back up.


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## Bobby Maverick (Sep 18, 2016)

It's not that depreciation isn't a factor -- it is -- but it's not necessarily the huge factor that everyone makes it out to be. As a long-time business owner, I'm already used to having to shell out money for equipment. If I buy a $10,000 large-format printer, I don't avoid printing on it so that it will retain its value. I'm buying the printer to print things that will make money for me. I take all the printing orders I can find, I print them on the printer, and the printer eventually makes more money for me than I paid for the printer. The cost of the printer reduces my overall net profit, but without the printer, I would not be able to take large-format printing jobs. In that instance, since I'm not looking to eventually sell the printer, the only reason depreciation is even a factor is because I can include business asset depreciation in my taxes as a self-employed business owner.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Delivery Mr.Guy said:


> Example: Uber driver invested $20K on the car for a business, after 4 years driven for Uber than he need another 20k to replace a new car.
> If some one else invested $20k in stock or own gold bar or own a cell phone shop or pizza shop than after 4 years the $20k is turned into $200k.


Or...the 20K could turn into 4K.

And that's not depreciation anyway -- that's "opportunity cost."


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Michael Proffitt said:


> Actually I won't because I'm going to sell it flat out for KBB value. It's a 2008 Honda Fit. Already paid off years ago. I currently drive a 2015 Subaru Outback that I don't drive for Uber/Lyft. Uber/Lyft is play money and so is that Honda. It's a part time gig that I am lucky enough to be in a position to take part in. Not everyone's situation is the same.


How much was the car worth last year, when it was a year younger and 20k miles lighter. You may have only lost 300 in miles but you lost a year. that is also depreciation.

I'm not saying you aren't doing well. In my opinion, you are maximizing profits.

I drive an 08 too, I wouldn't drive anything much newer for this gig, no way.


SEAL Team 5 said:


> Actually your house is only worth what someone will give you for it. There can be a thousand appraisers that give you a number based on figures, but until you have the hard money in you hand it's only a number. The Phoenix market was the gold standard for this. In 2005 your home was worth $300k. In 2007 that same home is only worth $145k. Today the numbers are back up.


This is true for just about any asset

Port St Lucie, FL where I am and Phoenix pretty much mirrored each other. I think Port st lucie got hit a little harder. While I do not have cash in hand, I could sell my house for close to 3x what I paid right now but I know what you mean. My house previously sold for around 400. I paid about 1/4 of that, as a foreclosure. the way the values are going up here again gets me a little nervous.

It was crazy back then, I remember houses selling for nearly double the asking price in a few days in the market.

While I get what you are saying and agree for the most part, right now I could get near 3x. tomorrow may be another story but... 9


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## Danny3xd (Nov 7, 2016)

I'm with you, Kay. I consider it a business expense Can't tell you how many people I have seen leaving subcontracting/delivery/courier work after winding them selves up after doing the math using 54 cents as a baseline. If it actually cost 54 cents a mile, don't think any one would or could do this.
If this keeps ya awake, really not a great choice of opportunities, me thinks.

I too drive a Prius. Awesome car! Great in snow and ice. Gets 45 mpg and lasts 4 or 500,000 miles if maintained. My all time favorite car, bar none.

But to your point. The car is a consumable and a tool.

Just my thoughts and don't disparage any one's opinions.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

why stop with depreciation?

gas price does not matter.

Insurance cost is of no concern.

maintenance needed by excess miles is laughable,

Breakdowns cost nothing to repair.....


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Imagine if McDonalds made you buy a new uniform for each new day.
Going to work daily should not cost you. Saying the uniform becomes worthless by the end of the day would be counter intuitive.
You paid for that vehicle and it had value. The more you drive the more you lose and your true net must be factored in.
So when people post they've made $200 a night, have blinders on. You have to factor in all the costs AND depreciation. Factor in dead miles, wasted time, no shows, car washes, oil changes, insurance, misc repairs, tires, parts, brakes, tire rotations and miles put on that day, the value of your car goes down...way down!
Anyone buying a new car to Uber is clueless. Everyone should be driving a used Prius and nothing more.
No trucks, no new car, no fancy sedan and no handing out free crap or you're doing it wrong and you're not making a TRUE profit.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Wow, the depths of ignorance displayed on this thread speak volumes about why Uber is still in business. 

There is a cost associated with every mile you drive. If you don't understand this how can you possibly understand if you are making or losing money?


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

Most of a vehicle's depreciation happens in the first 3 years. If you buy a 3 year old (or older car), the depreciation concerns are less and less.


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## Delivery Mr.Guy (Aug 9, 2016)

The fact is the fact ok, we have lost m


JimKE said:


> Or...the 20K could turn into 4K.
> 
> And that's not depreciation anyway -- that's "opportunity cost."


Americans are not good at math and that is why they think Uber is profits. Uber is not profits but I still ubering because the extra cash from uber for movie and eat out only. I have seating down with Chinese and Vietnamese good at math at the wedding, they all tell me that ubering is losing money by their math. 
$1.20 cent per mileage
,57 cent cost of operate the car
20% uber fee
lost average 1-2 mileage on picking up without get pay,

they all told me that not profits.


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## Disgruntled (Nov 10, 2016)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


The depreciation we're talking about is very subjective and may not be very apparent using the car you already own or have when you start Uber-ing. You're very lucky with your situation, congratulations! However, the depreciation we're talking about will be felt (and probably felt very harshly) when you go to REPLACE that car, which you will have to do MUCH sooner if you Uber enough to satisfy your basic financial needs. If you can duplicate that car deal you got _every time,_ then again, congratulations, you may do okay with this venture (but you are in the severe minority).


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


wait till uber pulls a carfax and deactivates your prior wreck.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

This is the way I figure it. A used car good for uber is about 10 - 15k. If you finance that 100% over 4 years you are looking at about 300 / month for a note. If you go part time, it's about a quarter of your gross income to pay this note. As long as the uber payments can pay off the note (and the car lasts longer than the note) you can replace the car at any time with a new 300 / month payment.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

merkurfan said:


> wait till uber pulls a carfax and deactivates your prior wreck.


Lol.. Uber is not going to pull a carfax.


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## yojimboguy (Mar 2, 2016)

The real reason it's important HERE is that it's a bit fuzzy ... and ARGUABLE! People want to use it as an example of why Uber will bankrupt you.


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

GROSS EARNINGS
-GAS, MAINTENANCE, DEPRECIATION
-INSURANCE (EITHER COST OR RISK ,IE RIDE SHARE, OR 'HIDE!'SHARE' FAILURE TO DISCLOSE)
-ESTIMATE COVERING INCREASED RISK EXPOSURE (ACCIDENT, TICKET, MAJOR REPAIR, ROBBERY, ASSAULT, LEGAL,)
-----------------
=NET PROFIT OR LOSS.


coming soon: taking your 'NET PROFIT OR LOSS' and comparing it to other uses of your time in terms of 'OPPORTUNITY COSTS'.

until then,

peace


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


Depreciation is felt when you replace the car with a new one for the gig. so if your car is worth $7,000 less than it would have been worth had you not driven for Uber come replacement time that's an expense right out of your pocket book.
This is a much bigger expense starting out with a newer car than say if you are starting out with an old beater


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## Dutch-Ub (Mar 1, 2016)

So i checked in my country, the Netherlands. A 2010 prius with 95000-105000 kilometers costs between €9900 and €12500. Similar one with double the kilometers €8900. My math, uberrelated depreciation in this case would be Max 2000 euro's. 2 cents per Uber kilometer driven.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Oscar Levant said:


> Depreciation is felt when you replace the car with a new one for the gig. so if your car is worth $7,000 less than it would have been worth had you not driven for Uber come replacement time that's an expense right out of your pocket book.
> This is a much bigger expense starting out with a newer car than say if you are starting out with an old beater


Correct we all deal with depreciation because cars as a fact depreciate with. But those newer cars the depreciation is especially quick. Its generally not cost effective to drive a 2015 or 2016 car for Uber unless you do xl, select or black.

An example of someone not understanding depreciation is this poster who said he was going to drive a new car for 3 years put 30,000 miles on it a year then buy a new car.

People will buy a used car 2015 with 30k miles on it. No one is going to buy a 2015 with 90k on it and if they do they are not going to give you anywhere near fair value for it.


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

Delivery Mr.Guy said:


> I have seating down with Chinese and Vietnamese good at math at the wedding, they all tell me that ubering is losing money by their math.
> $1.20 cent per mileage
> ,57 cent cost of operate the car
> 20% uber fee
> ...


I appreciate all of the input from math geniuses. I must be really bad at math because I keep thinking that all of the money going into my bank account is real money. If so many people didn't keep telling me that I'm losing money as a ride share driver I would never have known.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Uber money = fake money


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> Depreciation affects how much you may get when you trade in your car. If you only plan on using one car your whole life, don't worry about it.


Depreciation ̶af̶f̶e̶c̶t̶s̶ ̶h̶o̶w̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶c̶a̶r̶.̶ ̶I̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶r̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶l̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶f̶e̶, don't worry about it.

Fixed that for ya.


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

ABC123DEF said:


> Uber money = fake money


Yeah, that's the part I'm still trying to figure out. They take Uber money at my bank, they let me pay my rent with it, they take it for car payments... why are all of these people taking fake money? It's so weird.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

In my opinion, it's just taking money from one place and moving it somewhere else. I'm not trying to sway your opinion one way or another. Do what works for you.


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

ABC123DEF said:


> In my opinion, it's just taking money from one place and moving it somewhere else. I'm not trying to sway your opinion one way or another. Do what works for you.


I appreciate that, but I'm still confused about why so many people accept fake Uber money as if it were real actual money money.


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## DollarStoreChauffeur (Sep 12, 2016)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


The problem with your thinking is the note on the car. When will you be done with the note? If you're done before the car is done, great. If not, you're yoked with a monthly payment still. What about unforseen repairs? Regular maintenance such as tires, breaks, oil changes all add up, too, and those are absolutely unavoidable.

You seem pretty convinced you've got it figured out, but you should check your enthusiasm until you've worked it for a year and really know what it's going to cost you, and how little it will profit you. That's the real issue. This gig doesn't generate enough funds to spend _any_ money on it! Never mind carrying the cost and liability of putting a vehicle on the road.


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## DollarStoreChauffeur (Sep 12, 2016)

ABC123DEF said:


> In my opinion, it's just taking money from one place and moving it somewhere else. I'm not trying to sway your opinion one way or another. Do what works for you.


And this is the whole scenario in a nutshell. Uber's rates are so low you are merely transferring an asset into up front cash. And if that asset is costing you cash to begin with, you're going to find it hard to even do that well.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Blackout 702 said:


> Depreciation ̶af̶f̶e̶c̶t̶s̶ ̶h̶o̶w̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶c̶a̶r̶.̶ ̶I̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶r̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶l̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶f̶e̶, don't worry about it.
> 
> Fixed that for ya.


That's all I need. Another chimp brain trying to put words in my mouth and mess with my writing.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> If you care about how profitable it is, then you need to care about depreciation.


It depends on whether you're talking about the declining value of your car or the kind of depreciation you can deduct from your taxes. Here's the IRS explanation of a depreciable asset.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/a-brief-overview-of-depreciation

I bought a car specifically for business use and don't put any personal miles on it and have another vehicle for personal errands. I'm prepared to fight the IRS on dead miles and offline time. If you use your car for both, then keep really good records. I'll let you know in about 4 weeks if my tax guy thinks I pulled it off.


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

ABC123DEF said:


> In my opinion, it's just taking money from one place and moving it somewhere else.


Ok, now I get it. It's taking money from one place (the passenger's credit card) and moving it somewhere else (my bank account).


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## jlev8732 (Dec 3, 2016)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


haha are you trolling I can't tell.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

FL_Dex said:


> It depends on whether you're talking about the declining value of your car or the kind of depreciation you can deduct from your taxes.


It's depreciation. It's both. It's all the same. Both are part of the overall equation in determining your actual net income.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

A lot of us are getting rejected for jobs that they say we're overqualified or too old for. I started this gig 2 years ago as a side job before exiting the job I was working before my position was eliminated. I lost a paid for car in an accident by being rear-ended. This is very fake money to me because I did not plan to still be in this for as long as I have been.



Blackout 702 said:


> Ok, now I get it. It's taking money from one place (the passenger's credit card) and moving it somewhere else (my bank account).


Yes, all while quickly devaluing your personal vehicle and making maintenance more frequent and more necessary.


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## Redtop (Oct 20, 2015)

If you never plan to sell or trade in the vehicle then depreciation is a somewhat artificial concept. But think of it this way. If you get a new car and 3 years later have 30K miles on it, how much do you think it will cost in repairs if you drive it x miles in the next year. Now, if 3 years later you have 90K miles on it, how much do you think it will cost in repairs for the same amount of driving?

You could think of the cost of operating a car for a year as:
[Year-beginning car value minus year-ending car value] + insurance, gas, maintenance, taxes and other fees.

To me personally, my car value has always been zero as I inherited it and never plan to sell it. But it's an older car and I put zillions into it for repairs.

Ultimately, there's a cost per mile to operate a car and you have to factor that in. IRS says 54.5 cents per mile, but you have to make your own best estimate based on your circumstances. But you can't take a new car and put 90K miles on it in 3 years and feel you haven't lost something. Even if, as I said, you don't intend to ever sell it, your maintenance costs will go up and you'll have to dispose of it sooner. Having to buy a car every 5 years instead of every 10 years is a very real cost.


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

ABC123DEF said:


> Yes, all while quickly devaluing your personal vehicle and making maintenance more frequent and more necessary.


Omigosh, seriously? Thank you. As an adult human being I appreciate someone telling me that using a vehicle commercially increases the frequency of required maintenance. I still have some unanswered questions though, so can you tell me if water is wet and if the sky is blue?


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

You're welcome. Yes...water truly is wet and the sky is blue. The world is also round and grass is green, too.


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## renbutler (Jul 25, 2015)

CrazyT said:


> Cars are an asset, yes, but they always depreciate rapidly.


Not old vechicles, which is why I drive, well, old vehicles.

My most recent purchase, this past summer, was a 2006 with 70k miles. According to edmunds.com, it depreciates a minuscule _1.64 cents per mile.
_
Oh, and I haven't paid a single penny in maintenance yet in the first 5,200+ miles (although it will be due for oil soon -- just like any _new_ vehicle -- and a brake check).


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

It's not the math, it is the general accounting principles that are severely lacking in this thread.



Delivery Mr.Guy said:


> The fact is the fact ok, we have lost m
> 
> Americans are not good at math and that is why they think Uber is profits. Uber is not profits but I still ubering because the extra cash from uber for movie and eat out only. I have seating down with Chinese and Vietnamese good at math at the wedding, they all tell me that ubering is losing money by their math.
> $1.20 cent per mileage
> ...


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


You've addressed the depreciation issue without really thinking about it. You bought a cheap azz clunker hunker of crap which is a decision I commend you for, and so depreciation won't affect you as much as someone with a newer car.

But don't kid yourself, depreciation is not simply theoretical. It's real and you should still be depreciating your cheap car every month if you want to keep accurate records. I believe you can depreciate down to 20% of the purchase price. I didn't read the rest of the thread but hopefully somebody will know the specifics.


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

Bobby Maverick said:


> It's not that depreciation isn't a factor -- it is -- but it's not necessarily the huge factor that everyone makes it out to be. As a long-time business owner, I'm already used to having to shell out money for equipment. If I buy a $10,000 large-format printer, I don't avoid printing on it so that it will retain its value. I'm buying the printer to print things that will make money for me. I take all the printing orders I can find, I print them on the printer, and the printer eventually makes more money for me than I paid for the printer. The cost of the printer reduces my overall net profit, but without the printer, I would not be able to take large-format printing jobs. In that instance, since I'm not looking to eventually sell the printer, the only reason depreciation is even a factor is because I can include business asset depreciation in my taxes as a self-employed business owner.


Amortization is not the same as depreciation


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

Blackout 702 said:


> Yeah, that's the part I'm still trying to figure out. They take Uber money at my bank, they let me pay my rent with it, they take it for car payments... why are all of these people taking fake money? It's so weird.


You know it's funny that you're so smart and I'm so dumb yet you're paying rent and I'm paying mort... oh wait, I paid my house off.


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

Tedgey said:


> You know it's funny that you're so smart and I'm so dumb yet you're paying rent and I'm paying mort... oh wait, I paid my house off.


Why so glum, chum? I really don't get the personal attacks over differences of opinion. When someone is losing an argument they go from the simple math of it to muddying the waters with unrelated issues to silly personal attacks to whatever that last post from you is.

Reasonable people can disagree. I'm sorry that you are so insecure and easily upset. Try getting some fresh air.


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

Blackout 702 said:


> Omigosh, seriously? Thank you. As an adult human being I appreciate someone telling me that using a vehicle commercially increases the frequency of required maintenance. I still have some unanswered questions though, so can you tell me if water is wet and if the sky is blue?


Yeah I guess I've been excessively confrontational. My apologies


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

Blackout 702 said:


> Try getting some fresh air.


I'll do that. In my backyard.


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

Tedgey said:


> Yeah I guess I've been excessively confrontational. My apologies


Now that wasn't so hard, was it? I'm glad that at least you can tell the difference between facetiousness and ad hominem.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Tedgey said:


> I'll do that. In my backyard.


Drop the mike!


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


Most Uber drivers are part time, using their personal vehicle. So they are deathly afraid of depreciation. Full time drivers have a car just for Uber, so it is just a piece of machinery to be used for business, nothing more.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

FL_Dex said:


> I bought a car specifically for business use and don't put any personal miles on it and have another vehicle for personal errands. I'm prepared to fight the IRS on dead miles and offline time. If you use your car for both, then keep really good records. I'll let you know in about 4 weeks if my tax guy


You cant deduct mileage AND depreciation unforunately


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## Disgruntled (Nov 10, 2016)

I guess the chimp is right when you really think about it. Drivers make so little after deducting all of the other expenses that piling depreciation on top of it is just throwing matches on a bonfire.


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

Disgruntled said:


> I guess the chimp is right when you really think about it. Drivers make so little after deducting all of the other expenses that piling depreciation on top of it is just throwing matches on a bonfire.


Yes! I mean No! Wait, what?


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Atom guy said:


> Most Uber drivers are part time, using their personal vehicle. So they are deathly afraid of depreciation. Full time drivers have a car just for Uber, so it is just a piece of machinery to be used for business, nothing more.


If you drive for Uber fulltime your car wont last very long. Most FT drivers project 30 to 40 miles a year.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


You hit the nail on the head.

I myself hate when people talk about deprecation. If it was not for the car, you would not make any money. The drivers who are worried about deprecation are the ones who are likely upside down on their loans and can only see their car as a liability and not asset. The truth is, your car is an asset. If you have a car that you can put on 200,000 miles, you should be able to generate at least $100,000 in revenue if your city's market is at least 50 cents a mile. How fast it takes you to rack up those miles/how many dead miles you have is up to you.

I also love when people calculate their expenses with the IRS mileage rate and not actual expenses. The IRS rate although (I would think heavily researched) is a huge number that has some padding behind it since it has to cover every car/truck/suv. On top of this, every car (even if same year/make/model/trim is different. One car might have its engine blown out before 50,000 miles, and the next car on the production line may last for 200,000 miles without the smallest engine problem. If you think it actually costs 54 cents a mile to run your car, your wrong and quite frankly dumb.

The 2016 rates are as follows:

54 cents per mile for business miles driven
19 cents per mile driven for medical or moving purposes
14 cents per mile driven in service of charitable organization

Why would it cost 54 cents per mile for a business and 14 cents per mile for charity? Does your car magically get better gas mileage? Do your parts magically last longer when you drive for charity rather than business? No. If anything its backwards. Driving for business is likely less strain on a car than loading your car up full of furniture or driving yourself to the hospital and vomiting/bleeding on your seats. In service of a charitable organization is a wide range, but you will likely find your self transporting furniture or patients to the hospital.

You can not ignore the fact that your car is the biggest expense you have while driving for Uber. But if your thinking about deprecation, your worried about the wrong thing.

You see.. OP has the right mindset. Buy a car and do not expect it to be worth more than scrap when you trade up for a new(er) car. If your able to get something for it cool. That's a bonus but the key is to find the best deal imaginable. I wish our city would allow salvage titles to be used for Uber. It would make shopping for a car a whole lot easier.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

ABC123DEF said:


> You're welcome. Yes...water truly is wet and the sky is blue. The world is also round and grass is green, too.


25% correct.

water truly is wet - can't argue with that
the sky is blue - not at sunset/sunrise
the world is also round - almost
grass is green, too - not where I buy mine


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I can't bear it anymore! Depreciation is real, depreciation matters and many of you have no idea what it really is so here's the deal as best I can explain it:

Definition: Depreciation: a reduction in the value of an asset with the passage of time, due in particular to wear and tear.

What does this mean to us in Uber land. Forget about taxes, forget about IRS mileage rates, forget all of that crap. It's really simple and at the same time a guess because you can't know till after you are done. 

It's the value you lose in your car for the miles you drive for Uber as we are discussing it. If I but a car for 10K, drive it for 100K miles and sell it for 5K, it depreciated by 5K. 100K miles/5K dollars means that my depreciation in this example is .05 per mile. This is JUST an example. If you are great at buying used cars and great at selling them for a good price, your depreciation may be much lower. If you buy a new car and run it hard, your depreciation will be much higher. Bottom line: We all have depreciation expenses. We may not know exactly what they are until after the fact but you can estimate them fairly accurately by estimating your mileage and how long you think car will last them plugging those figures into kbb.com or something similar. 

Again, it has nothing to do with the IRS mileage rate in reality, that's a gift from the govt, a padded guess of all of your expensesthat is overestimated unless you are driving a hummer and only driving 8 miles a day. If you buy a car for $1,000 and put 100K miles on it and then sell it for $100 for scrap, good for you. Your depreciation is only .9 cents (less than a penny) per mile. That's the way to Uber! Not all of us can do that so for many of us our depreciation cost is higher, particularly if you drive select or something like that. In my case, I've driven an extra 50K miles ubering and that appears to reduce the price of my vehicle by roughly 4K so I'm at about 8 cents per mile for depreciation (which is well worth it when I get an .70 a mile). By the way, this does not include maintenance, depreciation is just about the value of your car or asset.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Trebor said:


> You hit the nail on the head.
> 
> I myself hate when people talk about deprecation. If it was not for the car, you would not make any money. The drivers who are worried about deprecation are the ones who are likely upside down on their loans and can only see their car as a liability and not asset. The truth is, your car is an asset. If you have a car that you can put on 200,000 miles, you should be able to generate at least $100,000 in revenue if your city's market is at least 50 cents a mile. How fast it takes you to rack up those miles/how many dead miles you have is up to you.
> 
> ...


You're correct in that depreciation as a proportion of revenue can be small. But your example of buying a new car and putting 200,000 Uber miles on it is extreme, and would only apply to a very small percentage of drivers.

The point about depreciation is that it can be either very small (as a percentage of revenue) or it can be very large, and for drivers to do the math. Example - I had an Xchange Prius C. It cost Uber $19,500 to buy. When I'd finished with it 12 months later it had 45,000 miles on it. If I owned the car and wanted to sell it to a private party, KBB said that it would be worth $12,500. That would have been a massive $7,000 hit in depreciation in 12 months. $583 per month, to be exact.

But my example is also an extreme, in the opposite direction to yours. Right now I drive a $4,000 car with 225,000 miles on it, on which I can put 50,000 more miles and resell it for $4,000.

So when people mention depreciation, it's not that people are saying all depreciation on every car will be a killer for every driver. The point is to be aware of what it is and how it affects one's own profit.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I can't bear it anymore! Depreciation is real, depreciation matters and many of you have no idea what it really is so here's the deal as best I can explain it:
> 
> Definition: Depreciation: a reduction in the value of an asset with the passage of time, due in particular to wear and tear.


Sorry to be an accounting geek, but the reduction in asset value is the effect of depreciation. Depreciation is the process of accounting for the cost of the asset within each accounting period during the life of the asset.

On the rest of it, though, you're spot on. Depreciation could be very high. It could be very low or zero. It all depends.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I can't bear it anymore! Depreciation is real, depreciation matters and many of you have no idea what it really is so here's the deal as best I can explain it:
> 
> Definition: Depreciation: a reduction in the value of an asset with the passage of time, due in particular to wear and tear.
> 
> ...


I may of went off topic with the IRS rate talk, but it still gets on my nerves when drivers claim IRS is a actual expense cost.


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## Truman (Nov 27, 2016)

Insanity is rife on this forum.

Make it simple.

Gross income-expenses=net profit

In other words your car(an asset)
is rapidly declining in value because of your job.

Key expenses for drivers. Gas,repairs,vehicle depreciation.

It's a huge issue don't be blind to costs incurred by depreciation.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

elelegido said:


> Sorry to be an accounting geek, but the reduction in asset value is the effect of depreciation. Depreciation is the process of accounting for the cost of the asset within each accounting period during the life of the asset.
> 
> On the rest of it, though, you're spot on. Depreciation could be very high. It could be very low or zero. It all depends.


Keep this in mind. That Prius can easily do 300,000+ miles. If that car had less than 100,000 miles, you still could get 4x the revenue, and the deprecation would not be as big of a hit like that initial 7,000. After all, you can sell it for scrap and get a good $300 when its all said and done. Even more if you want to start listing the parts that still work on eBay.

Deprecation is real and the best way to counteract it is to find a good deal on a used car and run it to the ground to help absorb the deprecation costs. I think we can all agree to not be a dummy and overpay for a car that your going to run into the ground for Uber.


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## Baby Cakes (Sep 6, 2015)

Delivery Mr.Guy said:


> Example: Uber driver invested $20K on the car for a business, after 4 years driven for Uber than he need another 20k to replace a new car.
> If some one else invested $20k in stock or own gold bar or own a cell phone shop or pizza shop than after 4 years the $20k is turned into $200k.


Sure but I invested 5k into a car which has yielded me over 100k 
If you are spending 20k on a car ever you are an idiot


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## Emp9 (Apr 9, 2015)

drivers should care in cases they have a newer 30k or more priced car and after they hit 100k miles realize the car is worth only a few thousand and they have a loan for 3 more years on it.


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## saucy05 (Aug 23, 2015)

Bobby Maverick said:


> It's not that depreciation isn't a factor -- it is -- but it's not necessarily the huge factor that everyone makes it out to be. As a long-time business owner, I'm already used to having to shell out money for equipment. *If I buy a $10,000 large-format printer, I don't avoid printing on it so that it will retain its value. I'm buying the printer to print things that will make money for me*. I take all the printing orders I can find, I print them on the printer, and the printer eventually makes more money for me than I paid for the printer. The cost of the printer reduces my overall net profit, but without the printer, I would not be able to take large-format printing jobs. In that instance, since I'm not looking to eventually sell the printer, the only reason depreciation is even a factor is because I can include business asset depreciation in my taxes as a self-employed business owner.


The question is not whether you will make money driving a brand new BMW for uber pool rates, you probably will. But how much do you profit? If you made $5 an hour after expenses then would you still drive? Or would you look for another job?

Example:
If you bought a brand new car for $30k and it lasted 200k miles then each mile is costing you* 15 cents per mile *just on depreciation. If you bought a cheap used car with 50k miles for $10k and it lasted 150k more miles that is *6 cents per mile*.

Net earning after uber fee:
90 cents a mile - 25% = *67 cents a mile before expenses.*

15/67 = 22%

Your brand new car could eat more than 20% of your income *before *adding your other expenses.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

Dutch-Ub said:


> So i checked in my country, the Netherlands. A 2010 prius with 95000-105000 kilometers costs between €9900 and €12500. Similar one with double the kilometers €8900. My math, uberrelated depreciation in this case would be Max 2000 euro's. 2 cents per Uber kilometer driven.


you forgot many variables. condition, wreck history, color, options, model, if the dealer got a good deal when they took it in or not, etc. too many variables to look up over the computer.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> Lol.. Uber is not going to pull a carfax.


Might wana double check your assertion. Someone was told buy a new car or you will be deactivated because they did just that. They pulled a title history report (might not have been car fax, but one of the other services that does that like autocheck) and the title history showed a total out.

far as I know that driver did have his ticket pulled. so you are WRONG. They have (and maybe still do) spot check title history.

found one of the treads..
https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-deactivated-my-car.22928/#post-316236
so either he is lying. Or you are wrong.

opps found another one.
https://uberpeople.net/threads/i-was-emailed-last-night-my-car-was-being-delisted.29051/#post-376340
shit... another one..
https://uberpeople.net/threads/so-i-guess-im-seeing-lawyer-now.29494/


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## El Janitor (Feb 22, 2016)

Like the dealer gives you much on your trade in anyways LOL!


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Baby Cakes said:


> Sure but I invested 5k into a car which has yielded me over 100k
> If you are spending 20k on a car ever you are an idiot


Throwing the idiot word around is never a good idea. I spent 32k on my car and it works for me, I'm very happy with my purchase. I enjoy driving it, it qualifies for select, I actually fit in it and I take advantage of the tax code to make it work for me. I'm happy for an idiot.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Trebor said:


> Keep this in mind. That Prius can easily do 300,000+ miles. If that car had less than 100,000 miles, you still could get 4x the revenue, and the deprecation would not be as big of a hit like that initial 7,000. After all, you can sell it for scrap and get a good $300 when its all said and done. Even more if you want to start listing the parts that still work on eBay.
> 
> Deprecation is real and the best way to counteract it is to find a good deal on a used car and run it to the ground to help absorb the deprecation costs. I think we can all agree to not be a dummy and overpay for a car that your going to run into the ground for Uber.


Yeah, one would hope so. But I'm still seeing Uber drivers in showroom-fresh 2016 Camry Hybrids and Priuses with temporary 90 day plates on them.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

merkurfan said:


> Might wana double check your assertion. Someone was told buy a new car or you will be deactivated because they did just that. They pulled a title history report (might not have been car fax, but one of the other services that does that like autocheck) and the title history showed a total out.
> 
> far as I know that driver did have his ticket pulled. so you are WRONG. They have (and maybe still do) spot check title history.
> 
> ...


In some states, a car is flagged on the registration and/or title as a salvage. It probably got flagged this way.

Uber is not going to spend one extra cent vetting drivers or their cars. it must have came up during their standard procedures.


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## Spanky (Jun 28, 2014)

Yeah the car depreciates but I also get a tax deduction that offsets the depreciation.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

simpsonsverytall said:


> Because the whole idea of working, is to _increase _your wealth.


 . . . right, and the vehicle is your main tool for doing that. For those of us who do this more than a few hours each week, the cars usage and depreciation are all part of operating expenses. So, when it comes time to buy another car, you've already received credit from the IRS for it. Now, rinse, repeat . . .


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

simpsonsverytall said:


> Which is fine if you just received news from your doctor that you have 10 years to live.
> 
> Depreciation isn't some abstract concept. It is an estimate in regards to the concrete worth of your car.
> 
> ...


You may be confusing making a personal investment with making a capital asset investment for a business.

If one buys a car with the main purpose for it's use in a business, than the depreciation is a planned accounting event (wasting asset/resource). If you use it mostly for your own personal use then hopefully you're netting enough $$ from doing this to fairly compensate you for the wear-and-tear (because if it's not a business asset, then it's "needless" wear-and-tear).


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

BurgerTiime said:


> Anyone buying a new car to Uber is clueless. Everyone should be driving a used Prius and nothing more.
> No trucks, no new car, no fancy sedan and no handing out free crap or you're doing it wrong and you're not making a TRUE profit.


Correct!


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

circle1 said:


> You may want to consult a legal expert about this





A_Driver said:


> I have a new car. I get a stipend from my full time job of about $450 a month to cover the car and insurance @ 75%, they figure I use it for personal use, I should have to pay something. Plus they pay a variable mileage rate to cover fuel and maintanince. I drive 35-40k miles a year for my full time gig. My stipend covers the cost of me buying a new $20k car every 4 years. My situation is not common, but depreciation isn't an issue for me. For everyone else, you need to consider the big picture. Your basically borrowing money from Uber against your vehicles value in most cases.


Circle1, 
Since you're suggesting he seek legal counsel, what do you see as being illegal about what A-_Driver is doing?


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

circle1 said:


> You may want to consult a legal expert about this
> 
> You may be confusing making a personal investment with making a capital asset investment for a business.
> 
> If one buys a car with the main purpose for it's use in a business, than the depreciation is a planned accounting event (wasting asset/resource). If you use it mostly for your own personal use then hopefully you're netting enough $$ from doing this to fairly compensate you for the wear-and-tear (because if it's not a business asset, then it's "needless" wear-and-tear).


you can look at it from the mountain top, or the valley, - just don't let your perspective fool you.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> In some states, a car is flagged on the registration and/or title as a salvage. It probably got flagged this way.
> 
> Uber is not going to spend one extra cent vetting drivers or their cars. it must have came up during their standard procedures.


I provided you proof they do it. your refusal to accept it is not my problem.


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## CatchyMusicLover (Sep 18, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> It's simple math man.
> 
> If you paid 15k for the car. and sell it for 5k that's 10k depreciation.
> 
> If you made 25k doing uber subtract 10k for depreciation .


Except....that's horrible math. Because you forgot a VERY important step.

If you paid 15k and didn't drive for Uber....you wouldn't be able to sell it for 15K. Depreciation happens /the second you drive off the lot/. The amount doing rideshare does increase this, there's no denying it. But just the time factor by itself depreciates a car, on top of any non-rideshare driving.

I won't say I know what the difference would be, but it's certainly not even close to 10K on a car one paid 15K for.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> In some states, a car is flagged on the registration and/or title as a salvage. It probably got flagged this way.
> 
> Uber is not going to spend one extra cent vetting drivers or their cars. it must have came up during their standard procedures.


except that one (frame damage) was never flagged as such at the state nor did it have a flagged title. it came from an auction house who could not explain it nor change it and they named autocheck as the sole source of the information.

soo....

give me that shovel and stop digging.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

[QUOTE="It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.[/QUOTE]
Are you telling us you are driving a salvaged car?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Circle1,
> Since you're suggesting he seek legal counsel, what do you see as being illegal about what A-_Driver is doing?


The stupid software makes automatic saves to anything you type, and there's no cancel button . . . I thought I had dumped that comment, because I re-read what he said and withdrew my comment . . . there, I've deleted it!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

elelegido said:


> 25% correct.
> 
> water truly is wet - can't argue with that
> the sky is blue - not at sunset/sunrise
> ...


Mmm, maybe slightly purple . . .


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## mikechch (Jun 5, 2016)

I can't believe anyone would drive a 2016 Prius for Uber...... In 1 to 2 years you will have lost the entire value of buying an older Prius.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

mikechch said:


> I can't believe anyone would drive a 2016 Prius for Uber...... In 1 to 2 years you will have lost the entire value of buying an older Prius.


Right, the "winning" strategy is buying an older car with low miles and no dents.


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## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


Not everybody has a junk car.

So to those with cheap cars, depreciation is not much of a factor; but for those with newer cars, the driver is running his car to the ground for minimal earnings. You not only lose the car you just bought, but you have to shell out another 25,ooo. This is the reason why studies show Uber is just a loan. You are getting money now, but you will end up losing it once you depreciate your car for Uber. And then you have to drive more in order to start payments all over again.

People who do not consider expenses and depreciation think they are actually making money. That is why it is important to calculate accordingly. We do not want to be deceived.


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## Dutch-Ub (Mar 1, 2016)

freddieman said:


> you forgot many variables. condition, wreck history, color, options, model, if the dealer got a good deal when they took it in or not, etc. too many variables to look up over the computer.


All standard equipped models, we don't have a system that registers salvaged wrecks. No solar roof, no leather interior. Ofcourse the exact amount of Uber related depreciation will only be known when the car is sold. but you can get a lot of info of the net to compare.


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## UberSchmuber (Mar 2, 2016)

So I guess this topic has completely covered EVERYTHING anyone ever needed to know about the Prius.

I found used 2008 XL qualified CUVwith 150K in mint condition for $3200, under priced by almost half its book value, made back the cost in a month and a half. It's a solid car so all I pay for is gas & maintenance and get $2.72 per mile in the Jersey Shore corridor and $1.70 outside it for XL. Yesterday (day and evening) I had 5 XL fares.
So for me, I let someone else burn the depreciation out of a $30000 car, paid under book and got the best yield for the least amount of money. I think I have depreciation figured out.


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## AZ-XOEM (Aug 19, 2016)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


►The Best Case Scenario,... you make enough money to *offset *the depreciation of your car, the fuel , maintenance, and the time wasted driving around when, you could've gotten a mainstream job that also provides you with Health Insurance and other benefits.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

REX HAVOC said:


> [QUOTE="It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.


Are you telling us you are driving a salvaged car?[/QUOTE]
I drive several of them. properly repaired they are great cars at a decent savings over non-wrecked cars of the same make/model.. Uber however does not want them in their fleet, and that is their choice.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

simpsonsverytall said:


> Because the whole idea of working, is to _increase _your wealth.


COMMENT OF THE DAY!
Five stars!


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


Your car is a throwaway car, but a lot of people are running their family cars or daily drivers. If the daily driver takes a dump because of rideshare driving, it puts them at a loss for trade-in value on their car next.
How did you get a car with likely a branded title (with that structural damage) onto rideshare?

I *get* the depreciation factor. I drove rideshare on a car that I personally had already put 100,000+ miles on before joining Lyft, and had intended to drive it past 200,000 miles and own it til it died ---- but that plan got rear-ended. My next car cost me overall $12,000, so net $6,000 at a dealership. The other $6,000 of that was covered by the insurance check on the first car.
If this newer, second car gets wrecked, then I've probably thrown a few thousand dollars down the drain. AND this newer car is arguably a throwaway economy car but not intended to be a family cruiser, so it makes anytime being on the road a balancing act on depreciation vs. damage risk vs. eventual trade-in.

It snowed around here recently. Seattle drivers are baffled by snow. I could have risked it to chase constant, citywide 3x surges and 100 to 200 % + Prime Time multipliers, but no.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

One factor on depreciation: 
If you plan to keep your car long term, your car may outlast its allowed service life on Uber/Lyft. 
Then you'll have to choose whether to keep driving by getting another car.


For example, that 2008 Honda Fit that one guy is posting about can drive in the Seattle market for basically two more years as cars here must be 10 years or newer. His depreciation is fairly low, so it's sort of at a sweet spot. (Except if it's an extra car and not a daily driver... then insurance rates need to be calculated in on whether that drains its worth versus earnings potential.)


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

One last thought:

Is leasing a car the ultimate end run to get around depreciation ?

Then again, leasing eats into profits immediately. And you get no asset to keep.


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## occupant (Jul 7, 2015)

Edmunds TMV, '12 Cruze 1LT, turbo/auto.

Clean condition, 60k miles, private party value $7725
Average condition, 160k miles, private party value $3425.

$4300 I'm pretty sure you could easily cover over 100,000 miles of Ubering. Add in twenty extra oil changes ($600), extra fuel (25mpg, $2.50/gallon, 4000 gallons, about $10,000), two more sets of tires ($450 twice, $900), two more sets of brakes ($300 twice, $600), and the extra 90k/120k/150k services ($550 thrice, $1650), AND assuming you don't wreck it or break anything...

...then consider the tax benefits for an extra 25k deductable miles per year...

...look I'm tired, no time to do the math...

...the depreciation is a significant part of the cost of owning a vehicle but it is NOT everything. The mileage deduction in the 25% bracket covers about $14,000 of the $18,900 in expenses and depreciation listed above.

The extra income certainly offsets it. How much can you earn in four years and 100k miles?


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## occupant (Jul 7, 2015)

Dammit Mazzacane said:


> How did you get a car with likely a branded title (with that structural damage) onto rideshare?


Depends on how your state brands the vehicle. As expected, in many if not all states, the title states the damage. But the REGISTRATION does not. Uber does not ask to see your title, only your registration and insurance paperwork. I could easily run an ex-salvaged vehicle in Ohio, for example. This could come in handy because all vehicles sold at abandoned/impounded auctions are issued salvage titles, even if they are in mint condition.


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

Trebor said:


> If it was not for the car, you would not make any money


I don't know what this has to do with anything. You could say that about fuel, or the brakes, or the tires. Fuel isn't but both brakes and tires depreciate and you can chock those up as one time goodwill expenses if you like but they still wear on a regular schedule like an asset that depreciates.

Depreciation is really just an accounting slight of hand so that you don't get hit so hard when it comes time to replace an item.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

occupant said:


> Edmunds TMV, '12 Cruze 1LT, turbo/auto.
> 
> Clean condition, 60k miles, private party value $7725
> Average condition, 160k miles, private party value $3425.
> ...


Your snap shot values both cars today. but.. the 100,000 miles down the road won't just be miles. it will be age. thus, your premise is flawed.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

How did you get a car with likely a branded title (with that structural damage) onto rideshare?

In minnesota a car worth less than 8,000 dollars and older than 6 years will NOT get a branded title unless it's a flood car. Thus I currently drive a car that is considered a total out, the carfax shows a total out and that the car was titled to an insurance company, however, I have a clean/clear minnesota title for it. Uber would NEVER know unless they run a carfax/autocheck on it. I am sure other states treat cars the same way to one extent or another.

that said, it's the best 90 dollar TDI I have ever bought and I'd buy another one that just needs a new intercooler (they are rather low to the ground and unprotected) and a few connecting pipes to repair.


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## Mr Ocasio (Aug 9, 2016)

A car used for UBER is a tool not an asset. Do you expect your craftman wrench to be worth the same 75 dollars you spent buying it new after 5 years of use.

If you buy a 20k car to do UBER you invested 20k on your UBER business. Lets take a 4 year breakdown. 20k ÷4=5k. But you made with your car 15k a year net. Lets say you made 15k a year net fir the 4 years. That is 60k your 20k investment gave you. A car used for business is an investment on the business it is stupid for someone to go into ANY business where they have to drive and assume their vehicle will hold any value after it has served its purpose. UBER does not pay well enough to be profitable after investingbyour vehicle. But if you decide to get in your car, turn on the ap and drive then please shut up about depriciation. You are making the choice and no one is forcing you.


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## occupant (Jul 7, 2015)

merkurfan said:


> Your snap shot values both cars today. but.. the 100,000 miles down the road won't just be miles. it will be age. thus, your premise is flawed.


Wrong. This is an example of a car bought in 2012. If the owner didn't Uber, he might have 60k miles and the car would be in clean condition. If the owner did rideshare, it would be in less than perfect condition and have more mileage. Four years later, today, there is your hit in value on a vehicle used for rideshare. It is significant, but it is NOT everything.

Additionally, it is possible to sell a vehicle for a higher amount than book value, as long as you assume the following to be true:

1) some people don't care about book value
2) some cars are worth more as used vehicles in some markets...the Cruze sells better in Ohio because it is made here
3) you can do a good detail job on a car and being the condition up to higher levels, making a buyer feel more comfortable about high mileage thinking they were easier gentler miles.


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## jaywaynedubya (Feb 17, 2015)

CrazyT said:


> Even with a brand new car, I drive a 2016 Prius, I'm not worried about it. Cars are an asset, yes, but they always depreciate rapidly. Depending on the car you can lose a few thousand in value just taking it off the lot. My Prius is a business asset, but not an investment. The only time you can increase wealth with a car as an investment is to have collector cars and a strong economy to sell them if needed.
> 
> As much as I love cars, unless we're talking about classic American heavy metal, they're all disposable and get tossed when you're done with them.


I bought my 07 Prius, with 100k for 6. 5k, great condition no problems will probably go 250k plus,i can sale it for 3k, loosing only 3k in value or 47% after 3 years of full time Uber driving(50k a year). If I bought a 2016 Prius for 25k, after 3 years and put 150k on an 2016 prius, it's value would be about 7k. Loosing about 18k over 3 years, or rather 70% of its value.

Depreciation is real and is accelerated by driving for Uber.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

Mr Ocasio said:


> A car used for UBER is a tool not an asset. Do you expect your craftman wrench to be worth the same 75 dollars you spent buying it new after 5 years of use.


YES! because it still has a lifetime warranty and I can bring it to sears and they will replace it with a brand spanking new one worth 75 dollars if I wear it out.

Now.. do that with your car after you wear it out uber'n.


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## Mr Ocasio (Aug 9, 2016)

merkurfan said:


> YES! because it still has a lifetime warranty and I can bring it to sears and they will replace it with a brand spanking new one worth 75 dollars if I wear it out.
> 
> Now.. do that with your car after you wear it out uber'n.


Yeah maybe I should of gone with something else other than craftman. But I think you get my point.


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## mikechch (Jun 5, 2016)

jaywaynedubya said:


> I bought my 07 Prius, with 100k for 6. 5k, great condition no problems will probably go 250k plus,i can sale it for 3k, loosing only 3k in value or 47% after 3 years of full time Uber driving(50k a year). If I bought a 2016 Prius for 25k, after 3 years and put 150k on an 2016 prius, it's value would be about 7k. Loosing about 18k over 3 years, or rather 70% of its value.
> 
> Depreciation is real and is accelerated by driving for Uber.


Sums It all up really


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

merkurfan said:


> YES! because it still has a lifetime warranty and I can bring it to sears and they will replace it with a brand spanking new one worth 75 dollars if I wear it out.
> 
> Now.. do that with your car after you wear it out uber'n.


I'm not 100% sure but I don't believe any car companies ever have a lifetime warrenty on their cars. If fact, it's more profitable if they make em cheap and disposable.


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## occupant (Jul 7, 2015)

Car companies don't. Dealers do. Ricart Ford, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi, for one...

If I wanted to buy a car with questionable reliability, that would be a serious selling point.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

alright, let's run with the flawed premise that depreciation does not matter. I think we ALL agree that the car used for uber will eventually wear out and be worth nothing..

Now.. about the replacement cost 

cheap cars for uber makes sense if you are running X.. I just sold a 2013 Ford Fiesta to a kid who was "gonna get rich running for uber" tonight because with the weather Uber has been 2-3X surging this weekend.. who am I to talk him out of it? Car was fleet maintained never had anyone in it but the driver (matter of fact, I re-installed the seats as the company that used it removed them) He paid me 2K for the car, it has 245K on it. It came with a stack of paperwork including a new engine 90K ago that included a new dual clutch (updated Ford part) assembly. While I do NOT think he is going to get rich, that little car should give him the best shot at breaking even... buying ANYTHING over a few grand to run X is pointless.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Blackout 702 said:


> I appreciate all of the input from math geniuses. I must be really bad at math because I keep thinking that all of the money going into my bank account is real money. If so many people didn't keep telling me that I'm losing money as a ride share driver I would never have known.


Depreciation is only a big deal if you plan on driving for a few years, but if you plan on driving just for a few months while, say, you are looking for another job, then depreciation is probably nothing to be that concerned about.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

elelegido said:


> Yeah, one would hope so. But I'm still seeing Uber drivers in showroom-fresh 2016 Camry Hybrids and Priuses with temporary 90 day plates on them.


and these drivers are the first to complain about uber not being profitable all the while pulling the deprecation card.

This is more for everyone else since elelegido seems to already know:
You really have a business mindset to make uber work. Do you think big companies buy name brand paper? or do they buy the cheapest paper they can that will work? For us, since we can not control prices/ length of rides, etc. We really have to focus on the expense of things. This also means when you drop off a rider and see a really cheap gas station, you stop and get gas even though you may not need to. If you need a part (cosmetic) you take your time to find a used one on Craigslist or the junk yard. You don't go the dealer and buy a new one at retail price. Non-cosmetic, buy them new. But shop around. You don't necessarily need a OEM part. Labor wise, try everything yourself. If you find it is too hard, hire someone to do it, but look into doing it yourself first. I typically head to the junkyard and try to take off a part myself before starting something I have not done. If I can not take it off, it is out of my scope. The bonus is, if I mess something up, it does not matter. The point is, lower your expenses!


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## jaywaynedubya (Feb 17, 2015)

Try to get a business loan , and lay out your Uber business model for a 25k loan for a prius. They'd laugh at you and deny you .


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Can also find some independent mechanics that do general maintenance work on the cheap. Stay away from the big chains and dealerships for parts/service.

If anyone is in the KC area, I have a guy I can refer you to. He wont rape you on parts prices and his labor rate is very reasonable.



Trebor said:


> and these drivers are the first to complain about uber not being profitable all the while pulling the deprecation card.
> 
> This is more for everyone else since elelegido seems to already know:
> You really have a business mindset to make uber work. Do you think big companies buy name brand paper? or do they buy the cheapest paper they can that will work? For us, since we can not control prices/ length of rides, etc. We really have to focus on the expense of things. This also means when you drop off a rider and see a really cheap gas station, you stop and get gas even though you may not need to. If you need a part (cosmetic) you take your time to find a used one on Craigslist or the junk yard. You don't go the dealer and buy a new one at retail price. Non-cosmetic, buy them new. But shop around. You don't necessarily need a OEM part. Labor wise, try everything yourself. If you find it is too hard, hire someone to do it, but look into doing it yourself first. I typically head to the junkyard and try to take off a part myself before starting something I have not done. If I can not take it off, it is out of my scope. The bonus is, if I mess something up, it does not matter. The point is, lower your expenses!


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

jfinks said:


> Can also find some independent mechanics that do general maintenance work on the cheap. Stay away from the big chains and dealerships for parts/service.
> 
> If anyone is in the KC area, I have a guy I can refer you to. He wont rape you on parts prices and his labor rate is very reasonable.


I love the bring your own part places.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Ya just gotta be careful and get the right parts, sometimes that can be difficult. Or he can get them, but he does charge 20-30% over cost.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2016)

Delivery Mr.Guy said:


> Example: Uber driver invested $20K on the car for a business, after 4 years driven for Uber than he need another 20k to replace a new car.
> If some one else invested $20k in stock or own gold bar or own a cell phone shop or pizza shop than after 4 years the $20k is turned into $200k.


What about the 200k or more you made in the 4 years? Thats not factored in on your analogy.


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

You just think you made 200K...

I have done uber and pizza delivery. I made a hell of a lot more delivering for dominos than I did with uber.. You have the choice of your car smelling like barf or cheap pizza...


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## strongarm (May 15, 2015)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


Why do people keep asking this same question? If you have to ask then your next question should be how does depreciation effect my business? Sounds like in your case it doesn't have a huge impact. Others might be getting screwed bc they don't have a vehicle like yours. I sure don't have a salvaged Prius. I sure wouldn't buy one unless I still drove for Uber. Nahh I wouldn't do that either.


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## UberNaToo (Dec 9, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> *Why do people care about depreciation so much?*
> 
> *Uhmmm . ... really? *


Thus answering the question "why would anyone Uber?"


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## merkurfan (Jul 20, 2015)

UberNaToo said:


> Thus answering the question "why would anyone Uber?"


good question...

stop and wait till rates come up to a livable wage.


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## Mr.Pink (Dec 15, 2016)

Depreciation is like resolution, it doesn't exist until you look for it. Like dice clay said, _"what the **** is resolution!?!"_
What about VWs before and after the 'great scandal', or when the new better model comes out. It's like cash, what's it worth; not much if you can't trade it for toilet paper to wipe your squid with. It's purchasing power. Anybody got some Zimbabwe dollars? Or how about a Gretzky rookie card, I'll trade you a fiesta for it. Everybody says buying a new car for Uber is stupid, but buying a new car is stupid period, more so if you can't write off the depreciation.
2016 xc90-$80k
2014 xc90-$40k
2012 xc90-$20k
2010 xc90-$10k
2008 xc90-$15k-this sucker spent an extra $20k servicing it at the dealer.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

kay_ said:


> It gives me anxiety every time I read someone comment about it, but then I realize who cares??
> I bought a 2013 Toyota Prius, 14.2k, with 50k miles. It's had previous structure damage so it's a car to dump in the trash when I'm done with it anyway.
> 
> It's not my dream car so I could care less, I'm 25 so I'll probably just keep it to have as a hybrid car for family roadtrips or something once I choose to buy a car I really want. Are a lot of people using brand new cars or something??


Depreciation is real, but everyone is in a different situation here, that is why some people don't get it. If you got the car for free, or someone else is paying for it then you are fine but some people drive with cars with a very low value and others with new cars that cost more. My car is worth about $3k (Prius), in 2 years it will have 100k miles more and it will still be worth 3k or a little less. If I was driving a $35k new prius, in two years with 100k miles it would probably depreciate $15k to $20k, and that shows that depreciation is real.
Now, you can see it as an investment or an asset but if you are not getting enough income doing business then you are losing money. That is the problem with Uber, you are not getting enough money for your time and your asset, even if the asset has a very low value and depreciation rate like mine.
Many drivers don't keep track of expenses and miles, they look at how much money they get, but they have no clue how much it really cost them to operate to get that money so they really don't know what their real net income is. I have seen drivers with Chevy Silverado doing Uber, that is 12 gpm, at about $2.50 per gallon (CA) at 30 mph it is about $5.00 less per hour and that is only gas. If your vehicle has any value left to depreciate, it will depreciate and if you don't get enough money for that then you are not making money.
If you don't get enough to cover the depreciation, then you can pretty much say that you are borrowing on your equity.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

simpsonsverytall said:


> Because the whole idea of working, is to _increase _your wealth.


LOL! I don't think I could love you any more than I do right now lololol!


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

So how much should we get paid to drive to make it fair?


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Too Many Miles said:


> Depreciation is real, but everyone is in a different situation here, that is why some people don't get it. If you got the car for free, or someone else is paying for it then you are fine but some people drive with cars with a very low value and others with new cars that cost more. My car is worth about $3k (Prius), in 2 years it will have 100k miles more and it will still be worth 3k or a little less. If I was driving a $35k new prius, in two years with 100k miles it would probably depreciate $15k to $20k, and that shows that depreciation is real.
> Now, you can see it as an investment or an asset but if you are not getting enough income doing business then you are losing money. That is the problem with Uber, you are not getting enough money for your time and your asset, even if the asset has a very low value and depreciation rate like mine.
> Many drivers don't keep track of expenses and miles, they look at how much money they get, but they have no clue how much it really cost them to operate to get that money so they really don't know what their real net income is. I have seen drivers with Chevy Silverado doing Uber, that is 12 gpm, at about $2.50 per gallon (CA) at 30 mph it is about $5.00 less per hour and that is only gas. If your vehicle has any value left to depreciate, it will depreciate and if you don't get enough money for that then you are not making money.
> If you don't get enough to cover the depreciation, then you can pretty much say that you are borrowing on your equity.


This is exactly what they (commenters) refer to on nakedcapitalism.com in reference to the article by Hubert Horan who thinks Uber is ... well anyway, read the article but especially read the comments. They know Uber drivers are extremely naive relative to the money they are making:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016...standing-ubers-bleak-operating-economics.html


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

So what is the ultimate truth? Why do people always disagree?


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

BurgerTiime said:


> Imagine if McDonalds made you buy a new uniform for each new day.
> Going to work daily should not cost you. Saying the uniform becomes worthless by the end of the day would be counter intuitive.
> You paid for that vehicle and it had value. The more you drive the more you lose and your true net must be factored in.
> So when people post they've made $200 a night, have blinders on. You have to factor in all the costs AND depreciation. Factor in dead miles, wasted time, no shows, car washes, oil changes, insurance, misc repairs, tires, parts, brakes, tire rotations and miles put on that day, the value of your car goes down...way down!
> ...


Those $200 are the exception and not the rule, unless you're driving to a high income city as some people I know, but they're still driving 500 miles round trip ($250 depreciation) to earn those "Big Bucks"!


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

MSUGrad9902 said:


> This is the way I figure it. A used car good for uber is about 10 - 15k. If you finance that 100% over 4 years you are looking at about 300 / month for a note. If you go part time, it's about a quarter of your gross income to pay this note. As long as the uber payments can pay off the note (and the car lasts longer than the note) you can replace the car at any time with a new 300 / month payment.


Uh, what about the trade-in value of your poor, worn out car? Oh, right! Doesn't matter AT ALL!


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## Mr.Pink (Dec 15, 2016)

So 100k miles is $50k depreciation?


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## johnny pastrami (Sep 18, 2016)

Delivery Mr.Guy said:


> Example: Uber driver invested $20K on the car for a business, after 4 years driven for Uber than he need another 20k to replace a new car.
> If some one else invested $20k in stock or own gold bar or own a cell phone shop or pizza shop than after 4 years the $20k is turned into $200k.


Or if your biz goes belly up, u have nothing


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## johnny pastrami (Sep 18, 2016)

melusine3 said:


> Uh, what about the trade-in value of your poor, worn out car? Oh, right! Doesn't matter AT ALL!


The car has paid itself off by doing uber.


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

But what's better? Drive to earn money or drive to spend money? Either way you're gonna drive your car. My friend loses 100 bucks gambling every week Not including the 2 hour drives that take him to the casino. So imagine if he would just do Uber and make a hundred instead of lose 100 in cash. All hobbies cost money anyways, that's how I look at it.


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## Too Many Miles (Jan 26, 2016)

Mr.Pink said:


> So 100k miles is $50k depreciation?


It depends on the price of the car, the time in which the 100k miles are done and the specific brand and models. an Audi A8 depreciates far more than a Honda civic, BMW SE hold value much better than a Hyundai.
Look at Kelly blue book and you can see how much difference in value there is when you change the mileage.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

melusine3 said:


> Uh, what about the trade-in value of your poor, worn out car? Oh, right! Doesn't matter AT ALL!


No - that's just gravy at that point (but taxable) because you've fully depreciated the first car by using it to make money. My point was the acquisition cost of a second car is negligible provided that the first car outlasts the note.


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## jaxbeachrides (May 27, 2015)

You would do better to put $14,200 into a savings account and go to the atm whenever you need money. Thats not depreciation, the money is already there right? Weren't you going to throw the money in the garbage anyways if you didn't spend it?


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## Maksim (Nov 19, 2016)

MSUGrad9902 said:


> Most of a vehicle's depreciation happens in the first 3 years. If you buy a 3 year old (or older car), the depreciation concerns are less and less.


Except when you drive Uber and put on 50k miles a year on a new car...

Uber is not normal wear and tear.


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## GPH (Dec 1, 2016)

simpsonsverytall said:


> Because the whole idea of working, is to _increase _your wealth.


No, the whole idea of working is to earn money, it's what you do with that money that dictates how successfull you will be in increasing your wealth.


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## Delivery Mr.Guy (Aug 9, 2016)

You will not profits on drive for Uber, I do it for fun only and to meet new people. All the money from Uber is going back to coffee, gas, car repair, oil change, and hospital bill for back pain , 
90% percent of riders aware that the drivers aren't profits because they taken the uberpool and they paid only $6 for an half hour ride trip.


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