# How drivers are protesting Uber while making money.



## NS_Highlander (Mar 25, 2019)

Today a driver told me they asked a driver what he was paying Uber, which was a ride that would have paid Uber lots and the driver little. The passenger agreed to pay the driver half the price cash. 

I read about another driver who takes the long way as this won't cost the customer any extra but will dig into Uber's cut and they will have to pay the driver more mileage. 

Did anyone hear of this type of working to rule in their area?


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## NJ Jimmy (Jan 12, 2019)

Yes, I always take the longest route by mileage within reason.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

Yes longerst route and drive speed limit to increase time also.


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## NS_Highlander (Mar 25, 2019)

islanddriver said:


> Yes longerst route and drive speed limit to increase time also.


Driving slower certainly works with the new pay scale they have implemented in large cities.


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## Kyanar (Dec 14, 2017)

Cash rides can hurt you. Uber will deactivate, your insurance may not cover you, and in some jurisdictions it's straight up illegal.


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

Kyanar said:


> Cash rides can hurt you. Uber will deactivate, your insurance may not cover you, and in some jurisdictions it's straight up illegal.


Yeah.. the news if FULL of criminal Uber drivers accepting cash.


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## NS_Highlander (Mar 25, 2019)

Kyanar said:


> Cash rides can hurt you. Uber will deactivate, your insurance may not cover you, and in some jurisdictions, it's straight up illegal.


Selling sex and straight up prostitution is illegal, but selling a massage or an escort where sex happens between 2 consenting adults is not. Same here. If your friend buys something tangible from you and then you drive him home for a favor illegal? Who says you can't sell a stick of gum for 10 or 15 bucks, and then do them a favor by driving them to where they need to go for free?

As far as deactivation goes, so many people are fed up right now, they don't care.

It's all how you package it and exploit the loopholes....


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## 2015NissanVersa (Sep 24, 2018)

NS_Highlander said:


> I read about another driver who takes the long way as this won't cost the customer any extra but will dig into Uber's cut and they will have to pay the driver more mileage.


Always longhaul.


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## Kyanar (Dec 14, 2017)

NS_Highlander said:


> Selling sex and straight up prostitution is illegal, but selling a massage or an escort where sex happens between 2 consenting adults is not. Same here. If your friend buys something tangible from you and then you drive him home for a favor illegal? Who says you can't sell a stick of gum for 10 or 15 bucks, and then do them a favor by driving them to where they need to go for free?


Depends how the law is written. In my state (QLD, Australia), that wouldn't fly and you would be slammed with a fine for up to 160 penalty units (a penalty unit is ~$150 each) for providing a taxi service in a vehicle that isn't a taxi. But then we also ban leaving litter in Uber vehicles .


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

NS_Highlander said:


> Today a driver told me they asked a driver what he was paying Uber, which was a ride that would have paid Uber lots and the driver little. The passenger agreed to pay the driver half the price cash.
> 
> I read about another driver who takes the long way as this won't cost the customer any extra but will dig into Uber's cut and they will have to pay the driver more mileage.
> 
> Did anyone hear of this type of working to rule in their area?


"Working to rule" means following official working rules to the letter. Accepting cash payments from pax and longhauling are obviously not part of Uber's official rules for drivers.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

NS_Highlander said:


> Selling sex and straight up prostitution is illegal, but selling a massage or an escort where sex happens between 2 consenting adults is not.


I believe Robert Kraft would disagree with you.


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## NS_Highlander (Mar 25, 2019)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I believe Robert Kraft would disagree with you.


 I don't know the details of the case, but he most likely offered money for sex not company or a massage.



The Gift of Fish said:


> "Working to rule" means following official working rules to the letter. Accepting cash payments from pax and longhauling are obviously not part of Uber's official rules for drivers.


 Uber is charging pax surge rates and hiding the surges from the drivers. The less respect Uber has for the Driver and Passengers by pulling this crap, the less their "rules" are going to be respected.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Cash is king. Just don't get caught.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

I have heard rumors about drivers doing these things.


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## CDP (Nov 11, 2018)

NS_Highlander said:


> Selling sex and straight up prostitution is illegal, but selling a massage or an escort where sex happens between 2 consenting adults is not. Same here. If your friend buys something tangible from you and then you drive him home for a favor illegal? Who says you can't sell a stick of gum for 10 or 15 bucks, and then do them a favor by driving them to where they need to go for free?
> 
> As far as deactivation goes, so many people are fed up right now, they don't care.
> 
> It's all how you package it and exploit the loopholes....


Stick of gum = 15$ and you get a gram of sticky icky in DC. Same principle.


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## Ignatowski (Mar 23, 2019)

Uber/Lyft say that you can't advertise (with trade dress) as Uber/Lyft, and then take pax for cash... fair enough. But if you remove all trade dress, can you take pax for cash? You might say that would be providing an unlicensed taxi service, but remember that Uber/Lyft say that they don't actually provide a taxi service.

According to Uber/Lyft, they basically just run a database of Users, a bit like an online dating service. Some Users in the database are willing to provide transportation; and some Users want a ride; and Uber/Lyft give you "the hook-up." They also provide a payment system, and take their "platform fee." Or at-least, "that's their story, and they're sticking with it."

There are rideshare apps which do use cash payments: check out LibreTaxi, which is also "a platform" to hook-up drivers and riders, except the rider pays the driver directly.

Now, all that said, my own city (Minneapolis) has given Uber and Lyft "licenses to operate" inside the city. I read the license, and large portions were cut-and-paste from taxi licenses: the city requires car inspections; background checks, trade dress, specific parking rules, liability insurance. Clearly, the city would not welcome something like LibreTaxi, which does not do any of that. The truth is that the city regulates Lyft & Uber as if they ARE taxi companies, even while Lyft and Uber's very business model depends on them claiming to be "just an online platform." There is some legal slight-of-hand going on here.

So the real reason you can't take cash is that your CITY already views you as a part of a taxi service, which they regulate. If your small city doesn't regulate taxi companies, or you are working outside city limits, and if you have commercial taxi/chauffer car insurance, and you pay your taxes for your business receipts, then I think removing your Uber/Lyft trade dress and accepting street hails & cash is legit. There are probably a million owner/operator "limo" services in rural America which are not regulated by any city. I used to live in a town of 12,000 people, and there was a transportation service called "Leo's Van"... one guy with a van and a cell phone. Unless the city council decided to regulate Leo, I'd bet that he could take street hails and cash.


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## Kyanar (Dec 14, 2017)

Yeah so that’s basically the case in my state (in Australia, cities don’t get to regulate to this level, states do). The government created a category of license called “booked hire service”, and declared that Uber, Ola et al are booked hire services.

To transport a passenger through an app, you’re a booked hire service and you need the right class of compulsory insurance, a more expensive vehicle registration, an industry authority (license endorsement for rideshare and taxi), and a vehicle license. You also have to be engaged through a booking entity such as Uber, unless you have a booking entity authorisation as well. Naturally, every single one of these things is $$$.

If you pick up someone on a hail from the side of the road that’s even worse, unless your vehicle has taxi plates (about $100k each)


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

NS_Highlander said:


> I don't know the details of the case, but he most likely offered money for sex not company or a massage.


Charlie Sheen says it the best, "I don't pay for sex, I pay for them to leave in the morning."


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Ignatowski said:


> Uber/Lyft say that you can't advertise (with trade dress) as Uber/Lyft, and then take pax for cash... fair enough. But if you remove all trade dress, can you take pax for cash? You might say that would be providing an unlicensed taxi service, but remember that Uber/Lyft say that they don't actually provide a taxi service.
> 
> According to Uber/Lyft, they basically just run a database of Users, a bit like an online dating service. Some Users in the database are willing to provide transportation; and some Users want a ride; and Uber/Lyft give you "the hook-up." They also provide a payment system, and take their "platform fee." Or at-least, "that's their story, and they're sticking with it."
> 
> ...


You would be surprised how easy that is to do.

What i have been tempted to do is to get black car insurance and slap and uber/lyft stucker on the car with a "for-hire" dome light and take street hails.

We all know that people are dumb enough to street hail and uber, might as well have the proper insurance.

I figure if i do that i can get 40%+ more than uber/lyft, 3X-4X as much on short trips (in the $9.00-10.00 range)

There's nothing to stop you and having uber/lyft stickers will protect you from much of the enforcement.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

As I see it the problem with doing off app rides is the insurance. My personal auto won’t cover me if I’m doing commercial work and of course Uber won’t cover me because the app is off

So I bought commercial insurance and I got the local permits. I can’t do street hails but I can do pre arranged rides 

The insurance is, I think, expensive but given the number of miles I drive less than a penny a mile. The permits themselves are cheap


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

NS_Highlander said:


> Today a driver told me they asked a driver what he was paying Uber, which was a ride that would have paid Uber lots and the driver little. The passenger agreed to pay the driver half the price cash.
> 
> I read about another driver who takes the long way as this won't cost the customer any extra but will dig into Uber's cut and they will have to pay the driver more mileage.
> 
> Did anyone hear of this type of working to rule in their area?


-------------------
How can the driver take a longer way without costing the pax more money ?


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

If Lyft is still doing prime time in your area then switch to Lyft after an event or surge, make more and screw uber!


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## NS_Highlander (Mar 25, 2019)

KK2929 said:


> -------------------
> How can the driver take a longer way without costing the pax more money ?


My understanding is that the price for the customer is aleady set when they pick the route, but not for what the drivers get paid.



Disgusted Driver said:


> If Lyft is still doing prime time in your area then switch to Lyft after an event or surge, make more and screw uber!


Lyft hasn't caught on yet in my area, but I see more and more drivers are on the road for Lyft. It's been on the increase since the flat surge came into effect paying drivers less and they noticed the company was gouging the customers.


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

NS_Highlander said:


> Today a driver told me they asked a driver what he was paying Uber, which was a ride that would have paid Uber lots and the driver little. The passenger agreed to pay the driver half the price cash.
> 
> I read about another driver who takes the long way as this won't cost the customer any extra but will dig into Uber's cut and they will have to pay the driver more mileage.
> 
> Did anyone hear of this type of working to rule in their area?


It usually happen at the airport on long trips.



Kyanar said:


> Cash rides can hurt you. Uber will deactivate, your insurance may not cover you, and in some jurisdictions it's straight up illegal.


I have seen several drivers who have some regular customers and all the transactions happen on cash or square. It's guber and cities fault. There is no check and balance on guber business transactions how much they are charging and how much drivers are earning. Like drivers, some customers are pissed off on guber too. It's all about the trust and comfort level. Go check craigslist and several other platform where people are offering airport ride for 15-20 bucks. Are those regulated? This trend will grow when drivers need more maintenance money because of high milage on their vehicles and availability of less business. How are you going to get by? All the craziness in this job will grow. Whom you guys are going to blame?


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## NS_Highlander (Mar 25, 2019)

Ubermcbc said:


> It usually happen at the airport on long trips.
> 
> 
> It wasn't an airport but a long trip. He did it to spite Uber more than anything. Drivers will often take 75%, but he took 50%.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Kyanar said:


> Cash rides can hurt you. Uber will deactivate, your insurance may not cover you, and in some jurisdictions it's straight up illegal.


If its a cash ride, how would Uber know it to deactivate?


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

I_Like_Spam said:


> If its a cash ride, how would Uber know it to deactivate?


Unless someone rate you out. Don't let anybody know about it.


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## Alexxx_Uber (Sep 3, 2018)

Why would receiving a cash ride to deactivation?
You mean some pax are giving cash ride to drivers to report them and deactivate them? What on earth would their motivation be?

Why would receiving a cash ride to deactivation?
You mean some pax are giving cash ride to drivers to report them and deactivate them? What on earth would their motivation be?


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Ubermcbc said:


> Unless someone rate you out. Don't let anybody know about it.


I see people giving cash rides all the time, why would i snitch to Uber and/or Lyft about it? And even if I did, do they have staff to research and find the files of people accused of cash rides so they can be deactivated?


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

NS_Highlander said:


> My understanding is that the price for the customer is aleady set when they pick the route, but not for what the drivers get paid.
> 
> ___________________
> Yes, but that price is an approximation. A friend and I took a Lyft once -- the price shown was $22. They billed $24.45.
> ...


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

It's ok with ub


The Gift of Fish said:


> "Working to rule" means following official working rules to the letter. Accepting cash payments from pax and longhauling are obviously not part of Uber's official rules for drivers.


Regarding cash rides

Uber would say we are independent contractors and all they do is to connect individuals that want a ride with independent business people that will give them a ride

The passenger has no obligation to Uber. The next time the need a ride they are free to use Lyft or a limo service or drive themselves. They are also free to hire me

Likewise we are free to use Uber to find us passengers, or Lyft. We can use our cars to drive our kids to school. We can also free to offer cash rides to anyone we want (subject to local law and regulation)

So bottom line is: the customers are our customers

Having said that; Uber is free to deactivate us for any reason or no reason


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## jenijazz (Dec 27, 2018)

The rider gets charged more when the ride is _significantly_ longer than the estimate. How significantly? Only the Algo knows...


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

KK2929 said:


> -------------------
> How can the driver take a longer way without costing the pax more money ?


With Uber flat rate pricing the price is fixed as long as the pick-up and drop-off locations don't change.

If rider is quoted a price from point A to point B and the trip starts at point A and ends at point B, regardless of the route taken by the driver the price is fixed for the rider. This is why sometimes you see Ubers portion real high or Ubers portion real low or negative.

If the rider changes the drop off point after the trip starts or the driver takes the rider to a different location other than the quoted destination the price defaults to the published rates for that market.

Uber started this tactic calling it fixed pricing to get more from the rider based on what ever their system thinks the rider would pay. For example a certain ride costs between $12.00 and $12.50 based on traffic, same PAX does this ride on a regular basis. Uber would flat rate this price to say $13.00 to start, rider takes it. Next time rider requests it it is quoted at $13.25, rider takes it. Eventually Uber keeps increasing the price until they detect a pause in the rider taking the trip. That pause before the rider takes the trip is an indicator to Uber that they may be nearing the breaking point of that rider for that trip and they back off on future increases for a while. If at some point the rider does not accept the trip Uber will lower the price slightly next time to get the rider back on board.

Now to back this up I have seen my sons Uber account, he uses Uber daily to get to work and the exact scenario I explained is reflected in his trip history. Some one shared with him a way around this flat rate pricing which I recently shared in another post. All his trips are now back to what they used to be before flat rate pricing went in place.


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## KD_LA (Aug 16, 2017)

NOXDriver said:


> Yeah.. the news if FULL of criminal Uber drivers accepting cash.


It doesn't have to be on the news, if your state has deemed that it's illegal (which in California is), you're exposing yourself to the possibility of much headaches. There have been many undercover sting operations here in LA, where cops posing as cash passengers arrest drivers and impound their cars.

And on top of that, there are also serious liabilities if you were to get in an accident: you have no commercial insurance coverage, your personal insurance will drop you, and your rider will sue you.


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## Ubermcbc (Sep 25, 2016)

KD_LA said:


> It doesn't have to be on the news, if your state has deemed that it's illegal (which in California is), you're exposing yourself to the possibility of much headaches. There have been many undercover sting operations here in LA, where cops posing as cash passengers arrest drivers and impound their cars.
> 
> And on top of that, there are also serious liabilities if you were to get in an accident: you have no commercial insurance coverage, your personal insurance will drop you, and your rider will sue you.


There are other 49 states too. I have personally run into couple of guys who provide private ride service in a 20 year old beat up car. Heard from their passengers that they don't care as long the fare is dirt cheap. Check the greensheet, craigslist, other free news paper and online forums. This is not new. The way rideshare companies cheating this system for their benefits, have made this whole tranpotstion industry corrupt. Tell you the truth, i don't blame those drivers. It's the transportation department fault. Why they let their eyes shut on guber and gryft business practices?


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

KD_LA said:


> There have been many undercover sting operations here in LA, where cops posing as cash passengers arrest drivers and impound their cars.


Here in Pittsburgh, however, you won't see that. The police have other things to do, we haven't gotten rid of Real Crime yet. Further, cash trips from unlicensed cars are a way of life, and have been my whole life. You really should know your own community, and what they look the other way on.

Airports may be more strictly enforced, as they collect a special tax from ground transportation providers taking trip out of there, regardless of the area.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/t...ice-illegal-but-thriving/stories/201309070167


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## NS_Highlander (Mar 25, 2019)

KD_LA said:


> It doesn't have to be on the news, if your state has deemed that it's illegal (which in California is), you're exposing yourself to the possibility of much headaches. There have been many undercover sting operations here in LA, where cops posing as cash passengers arrest drivers and impound their cars.
> 
> And on top of that, there are also serious liabilities if you were to get in an accident: you have no commercial insurance coverage, your personal insurance will drop you, and your rider will sue you.


Not an issue where I live about the cops. They have other priorities. Regarding liabilty, it's like prostitution sex isn't for sale, their company or a massage is. You wouldn't take money directly for a ride. The ride needs to be free, but there is nothing that says they can't tip you, give you a donation or buy some frivolous item for an inflated price to get around that. As long as there is no agreement to provide money for a ride, than it is not a cash ride.


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## KD_LA (Aug 16, 2017)

NS_Highlander said:


> Not an issue where I live about the cops. They have other priorities. Regarding liabilty, it's like prostitution sex isn't for sale, their company or a massage is. You wouldn't take money directly for a ride. The ride needs to be free, but there is nothing that says they can't tip you, give you a donation or buy some frivolous item for an inflated price to get around that. As long as there is no agreement to provide money for a ride, than it is not a cash ride.


My liability comment wasn't about money, it's about being liable for damages or injuries in an accident.

If you're in a cash ride and you get into an accident in an area that takes it seriously, the fact might come out either through a police report or if the passenger is contacted as a witness by your insurance company. At that point, you might be in trouble with the cop, and/or in trouble with your insurance company. Either way it's a risk and liability-- grant it, it can depend on where one lives.


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## Delilah5 (Mar 20, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> "Working to rule" means following official working rules to the letter. Accepting cash payments from pax and longhauling are obviously not part of Uber's official rules for drivers.


This is the same as pax thinking Uber price is too high and cancels the ride request. Then asks the potential driver to turn off app and asks a personal question if they would drive them to destination with an offer price, preferably higher than what Uber would pay driver and lower than what pax would pay Uber.



NS_Highlander said:


> I don't know the details of the case, but he most likely offered money for sex not company or a massage.
> 
> 
> Uber is charging pax surge rates and hiding the surges from the drivers. The less respect Uber has for the Driver and Passengers by pulling this crap, the less their "rules" are going to be respected.


Yes Uber keeps alot of the surge noiwadays


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Delilah5 said:


> This is the same as pax thinking Uber price is too high and cancels the ride request. Then asks the potential driver to turn off app and asks a personal question if they would drive them to destination with an offer price, preferably higher than what Uber would pay driver and lower than what pax would pay Uber.


My post serves only to clarify the definition of the phrase "work to rule". It does not address any alleged merit or validity of circumventing Uber's terms.


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