# Florida | HB 509 doesn't require Uber to provide Primary Insurance until March 2017



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Rep Matt Gaetz's* Florida TNC Bill, *HB 509*, leaves Drivers uninsured by Not requiring Uber to provide Primary Insurance Coverage until *March 1, 2017.









*
The law itself would go into effect *July 1, 2016.







*

There are umpteen States where TNCs are currently required to, and are providing 'App On' Primary Insurance Coverage. Even Texas, which doesn't have a comprehensive TNC Law, passed *HB 1733* that mandates TNCs to provide this coverage to Drivers beginning January 1st, 2016.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Download *HB 509 here* to read the bill itself.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> 'App On' Primary Insurance Coverage.


Primary liability insurance.... with app on is the most basic requirement. Such coverage still leaves drivers out in the cold relative to their investment. Florida seems hell bent on leaving their working people out in the cold.

This situation reinforces my belief that current TNC companies operate as Ponzi schemes. Drivers aren't merely employees dressed as independent contractors. Drivers are investors first and foremost. As a driver, you invest your time and your wheels, you work hard just to keep your wheels rolling. The return on that investment of time and car mostly goes to some other investors profit, somewhere down the line.

Just to get in the door and operate in any state, by now, TNCs should be required to provide app on liability. The notion that period 1 driving isn't work needs to be challenged, clarified and amended. It has been suggested on this forum that for unpaid (deadheading) miles to be deductible, the app needs to be on and that's about it.

These are very subtle, but very important issues. THat drivers have been so strongly encouraged to remain on the fringes of compliance with local regulations is not going to serve them well here.

Uber and Lyft, by encouraging their drivers to avoid disclosing their TNC driving, has effectively groomed their drivers to probably let such bills pass without much questioning let alone a fight.

This is dangerous stuff.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Uber is rushing to get these half baked laws put in place in many states. Uber provides the language and the lobbyists. The drivers are not organized and they are not getting any representation and these laws are passing. 

The drivers need to get organized (in a hurry) so that their input can be considered as these laws are put in place. Right now it is totally one sided.

How many Florida drivers are willing to organize a trade association so that they can be represented in this matter?


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Bob Reynolds said:


> How many Florida drivers are willing to organize a trade association so that they can be represented in this matter?


I'd say about 2-3%.

On a related note FL Bill has this:
*#UberENDRUN | Getting Drivers declared as Independent Contractors by States' TNC Laws.*


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> The drivers need to get organized (in a hurry) so that their input can be considered as these laws are put in place. Right now it is totally one sided.


Absolutely crucial.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

Huberis said:


> Drivers aren't merely employees dressed as independent contractors.


The Uber-Sachs Machine is now in the process of crafting TNC statutes in the states, and we all know from past experience, Uber always gets exactly what they want ($10,000,000,000 = power).

Uber drivers will soon be cemented in as independent contractors in these states, per statute.

Plouffe is currently parading around, advocating "Being an Uber driver is a fun thing to do where you can pad your existing income."

He was just on cnbc making this very case. He was firmly suggesting "This is not a full-time thing" . . "more and more we're moving away from full-time drivers."

As far as drivers "organizing" good luck with that. What I see is a massive churn machine comprised mostly of casual drivers who can "take it or leave it." Why would these not-so-caring drivers suddenly "organize" some big grand effort against Uber? They don't care.

There are definitely Uber drivers who do care, who do it full-time, and want big changes, but the entire mix of drivers, as a whole, is an extreme case of differing attitudes, most of which don't care too much.

The whole driver campaign to "add a tipping option to the Uber app" good luck with that too, if Uber has the power to write their own statutes, do we really think a few hundred drivers "organizing" will force Uber to say "Oh wait! The drivers, they're really upset, we need to put in the tipping option!" Fat chance. It ain't coming.

From the beginning I have said I don't think Uber likes the idea of a driver doing this full-time. Uber might actually, in a way, resent it.

Their "vision" is to make this thing a casual activity of tens of millions of people. To remove all of the MISERY and PRESSURE that defines the taxi industry.

Yet they run out and advertise "Make $91,000 a year!!!" "Make $1,000 a week!!!" ? ? ? They keep changing their approach, because they are brand new at this brand new thing, and really do not know what they are doing.

The whole Uber thing is a fabulous "idea" but I think over time the word of mouth will spread about how "stupid" this activity is.

I believe that it's all a pipe dream that will eventually fade.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

I agree with the rest of your post.
But this is just wishful thinking on your part:


riChElwAy said:


> I believe that it's all a pipe dream that will eventually fade.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Personally I'm waiting for the American's with Disabilities Act to kick in and require uber to have Wheelchair lifts on Y% of their fleet nationwide.

With the cost of a wheelchair van/conversion I don't see that as something that will happen.

The cab companies are waiting for a prayer, and it could come from a special place.

God bless Tiny Tim and all the poor children like him, they may become my personal savior's.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Personally I'm waiting for the American's with Disabilities Act to kick in and require uber to have Wheelchair lifts on Y% of their fleet nationwide.





Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> The cab companies are waiting for a prayer, and it could come from a special place.
> 
> God bless Tiny Tim and all the poor children like him, they may become my personal savior's.


Forum Members need to actually read what the Bill's various provisions are. This what it says on Disability Access:

_*(f) A company shall provide riders an opportunity to indicate whether they require a wheelchair-accessible vehicle. If a company cannot arrange wheelchair-accessible service, it shall direct the rider to an alternate provider of wheelchair- accessible service, if available.*_


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> I agree with the rest of your post.
> But this is just wishful thinking on your part:


"eventually" could mean years and years, who knows . . and to be clear, i am talking about actual drivers, not the so-called incoming "driverless" vehicles, which is yet to be determined, and may actually be what they are really aiming for.. but as far as actual human beings continuing to do this as a casual activity and Uber raking in $$$billions from it, I give it 0% chance in the long-run


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> Forum Members need to actually read what the Bill's various provisions are. This what it says on Disability Access:
> 
> _*(f) A company shall provide riders an opportunity to indicate whether they require a wheelchair-accessible vehicle. If a company cannot arrange wheelchair-accessible service, it shall direct the rider to an alternate provider of wheelchair- accessible service, if available.*_
> 
> View attachment 19857


this incoming statute... written by Uber, as usual


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

I really wish people would not call me a name in PMs then send me info. It makes me feel stupid having to disprove myself.

Found the ADA rules in the CFR, thanks to a PM someone sent me.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...text&node=49:1.0.1.1.27&idno=49#se49.1.37_129

§37.29 Private entities providing taxi service.

a) Providers of taxi service are subject to the requirements of this part for private entities primarily engaged in the business of transporting people which provide demand responsive service.

(b) Providers of taxi service are not required to purchase or lease accessible automobiles. When a provider of taxi service purchases or leases a vehicle other than an automobile, the vehicle is required to be accessible unless the provider demonstrates equivalency as provided in §37.105 of this part. A provider of taxi service is not required to purchase vehicles other than automobiles in order to have a number of accessible vehicles in its fleet.

(c) Private entities providing taxi service shall not discriminate against individuals with disabilities by actions including, but not limited to, refusing to provide service to individuals with disabilities who can use taxi vehicles, refusing to assist with the stowing of mobility devices, and charging higher fares or fees for carrying individuals with disabilities and their equipment than are charged to other persons.

I would suggest that all uber drivers follow these regulations C. or face the wraith of the ADA.



chi1cabby said:


> Forum Members need to actually read what the Bill's various provisions are. This what it says on Disability Access:
> 
> _*(f) A company shall provide riders an opportunity to indicate whether they require a wheelchair-accessible vehicle. If a company cannot arrange wheelchair-accessible service, it shall direct the rider to an alternate provider of wheelchair- accessible service, if available.*_


I was referring to ADA rules and regulations.

And what you quoted was state regulations, what I mentioned was federal regulations. One's a pony and the other is a zebra. I may be wrong but if you're going to quote to prove me wrong, make sure you quote the rules I'm actually talking about.

We also would point out that the ADA does not assert any blanket preemptive authority over state or local nondiscrimination laws and enforcement mechanisms. While requirements of the ADA and this regulation would preempt conflicting state or local provisions (e.g., a building code or zoning ordinance that prevents compliance with appendix A or other facility accessibility requirements, a provision of local law that said bus drivers could not leave their seats to help secure wheelchair users), the *ADA and this rule do not prohibit states and localities from legislating in areas relating to disability. *(also from the ADA website)

And for the record, by law you can have federal state and local regulations dealing with the same issues.
The city of Orlando could have a requirement for a % of their vehicles being wheelchair accessible, or Orange or Osceola counties.

The city of Orlando could, require that TNCs have Y% of their vehicles being Wheelchair accessible (as in non folding) just as it has with taxis, just as many jurisdictions have.

In fact some of Mear's permits were given solely on the expansion of Para transit availability.

As it stands there is nothing in the CURRENT laws applicable requiring uber to have Wheelchair accessible vehicles. However laws are subject to change. And I don't think the public would ever protest a law requiring Para transit vehicles in a TNC... The public may be dumber than a box of bricks but I don't think the public is THAT stupid.[/QUOTE]


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

There is no reason not to accept a ride from someone that has a disability and *can enter or exit the uber vehicle by themselves or with the help of a companion*.

However I no longer feel comfortable assisting wheelchair bound riders into and out of my vehicle. The reason for this is because I dropped a rider onto the concrete sidewalk when her wheelchair came out from under her. While the rider was not injured, it could have been much worse and she could have broken a bone.

The fact is that we are not set up or equipped to transport riders that can not get into and out of our vehicles. There are special vehicles built for these purposes with the proper ramps and lifts to insure that a rider is not injured while entering or exiting a vehicle.


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## riChElwAy (Jan 13, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> There are special vehicles built for these purposes with the proper ramps and lifts to insure that a rider is not injured while entering or exiting a vehicle.


yes of course and Uber will be required by law (a law written by Uber) to provide an opportunity for a person in a wheelchair.. to provide a channel which will attempt to seek a possibility to get them a properly-equipped vehicle, and if they fail, oh well, you're SOL . . you can't make this stuff up Uber is one gigantic disgusting pig


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Bob Reynolds said:


> There is no reason not to accept a ride from someone that has a disability and *can enter or exit the uber vehicle by themselves or with the help of a companion*.
> 
> However I no longer feel comfortable assisting wheelchair bound riders into and out of my vehicle. The reason for this is because I dropped a rider onto the concrete sidewalk when her wheelchair came out from under her. While the rider was not injured, it could have been much worse and she could have broken a bone.
> 
> The fact is that we are not set up or equipped to transport riders that can not get into and out of our vehicles. There are special vehicles built for these purposes with the proper ramps and lifts to insure that a rider is not injured while entering or exiting a vehicle.


The most you should be doing is holding the chair steady, the least you should be doing is loading the wheelchair into the vehicle.
And those special vehicles are mostly held by 3 companies. The wait times get beyond ridiculous, unless you call to book a pickup you are talking an hour to hours outside of the airport, Disney, I-drive and Universal.

The question is, is it fare to have a service that does not have ANY para transit capabilities that costs 1/3 the rate of taxis?


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## bluewarrior7 (Dec 17, 2015)

I found a place in Florida that insures taxis, limos,etc also say uber and Lyft drivers too. She told me anywhere from 2500 to 4000 a year. Based on 300,000 liability limit but I'll get collision also. If it's near the 2500 to 3000 range then thats near what I pay now for full coverage on my vehicle


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

USAA covers Rideshare in Florida. When actual legislation is passed defining who is responsible for leg 1 (ap on, no request) they will offer the gap coverage if it falls to the driver. I think Uber got its way in this, but I feel better knowing my insurance is legit regardless right now.


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