# Uber Fail - Uber gets blasted by Time Magazine



## ACHUMA (Jun 26, 2016)

http://time.com/magazine/us/4819553/june-26th-2017-vol-189-no-24-u-s/


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## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

Sorry Time, what you are looking at is a company that bought off judges and lawmakers to be made legal. It's nothing new, its been done for many years.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

http://time.com/magazine/us/4819553/june-26th-2017-vol-189-no-24-u-s/
*Uber Fail: Upheaval at the World's Most Valuable Startup is a Wake-Up Call For Silicon Valley*
*Chaos at the world's most valuable venture-backed company is forcing Silicon Valley to question its values*

On the morning of June 13, Uber employees shuffled into an all-hands meeting at the company's San Francisco headquarters. They came to hear the results of an investigation that, like many in Silicon Valley, they had been anxiously awaiting for months. In February, a former female engineer at the company wrote an exposé describing a workplace plagued by sexism and mismanagement; the explosive allegations led Uber to hire former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder's law firm to find out how far harassment and retaliation had gone at the world's fastest-growing startup. "The process, as you all know, was longer than we thought and more painful than we thought, but it comes to an end today," board member Arianna Huffington told employees during a presentation in which executives' voices at times sounded brittle with emotion.

Over the past eight years, the hard-charging ride-hailing company has grown into a global powerhouse worth nearly $70 billion, disrupting the taxi industry in 76 countries and creating an app relied on by millions both for rides and for income. The wildly successful company has also been plagued by scandal from the start. Class-action lawsuits, driver revolts, cringeworthy faux pas by its brash CEO, you name it. But the past few months were something else: the February exposé was followed by a string of revelations so relentless, many started to wonder if Uber was in the midst of an existential crisis. In the end, the Holder report didn't recommend reform so much as exorcism. The biggest change: CEO Travis Kalanick announced he would be taking a leave of absence, of undetermined length, and would eventually return to a diminished role. He described it as a time to grieve for his mother, who recently died, as well as a time to grow as a CEO. It was an acutely humbling turn for a founder who had cultivated an aura as a brawler. "If we are going to work on Uber 2.0," Kalanick wrote in a message to the firm's 14,000 workers, "I also need to work on Travis 2.0 to become the leader that this company needs and that you deserve."

More is at stake in Uber's crisis than one company's future, no matter how much venture capital it has raised. Because Uber is the defining technology success story of this era, its woes-and how it weathers them-are a wake-up call for all of Silicon Valley. This place, having made itself the hope for the future of the U.S. economy, is also producing a fair amount of anxiety. Even before the Holder report, Uber's unraveling had undermined some of the Valley's credos: the cult of the founder, the rabid pursuit of growth, the virtue of disruption. Nor was Uber's failure to address issues of workplace inclusiveness unusual; it was simply spectacular.

In the end, what makes Uber a cautionary tale is not that it's the only tech company with a winner-take-all worldview or toxins in its culture. It's that it happens to be one of the most valuable.

If there has been one constant for Uber, it has been extraordinary timing. With shocks of gray on either side of his spiked hair, Kalanick is, at 40, considerably older than many ambitious founders in the Valley. He was born in Los Angeles and studied engineering at UCLA before dropping out in 1998 help to found his first company. His Napster-like file-sharing service ended when some of the world's biggest media companies sued the startup, forcing Kalanick to take the firm into Chapter 11 bankruptcy. He called his next company a "revenge business" because it provided technology to some of the very companies that had targeted him. It sold for $18.7 million in 2007.

By 2009, Kalanick had moved to the hills of San Francisco's Castro neighborhood. His townhouse there became an entrepreneurial salon and techie hangout he once described on Twitter as a "church of creative capitalism." A friend, Garrett Camp, had become enamored with the idea for an app to hail private luxury cars after he was unable to catch cabs in the city. UberCab, as it was then known, started its service in San Francisco in May 2010. By the end of the year, Kalanick had taken over as chief, and the company had changed its name to Uber in order to dodge legal complaints that it was advertising itself as a taxi firm, the first of many squabbles with regulators.

The firm was aggressive. Because taxi companies held monopolies in many cities, Kalanick cast them as the villains in a big-guys-vs.-good-guy drama. The big guys-which he once referred to as a collective "asshole"-were heavily regulated, with laws varying greatly from city to city. And the good guy, Uber, ignored these rules in order to bring consumers a better service-like rides that actually showed up when it was raining or that showed up at all. Ignoring the rules also allowed almost anyone to make money by ferrying around people as Uber drivers. That was attractive to many workers, but caused several cities to ban or suspend the service.

Even amid turmoil-strikes by angry taxi drivers, unresolved questions of legal liability-Uber expanded fast. Smartphones had become common, and consumers, especially the urbanites with disposable income that Uber catered to, were waking up to the new world of apps. Using it had that magic "it just works" element common to revolutionary technology: open the app, press a button, and in a few minutes a chauffeur appears. Customers were also getting familiar with the so-called peer-to-peer economy, renting out people's private homes on sites like Airbnb. The idea of getting in a car with an unprofessional stranger didn't sound as crazy as it once would have.

The year 2010 also turned out to be a fine time to start a company. After the financial crisis and the subsequent dearth of exciting tech firms to invest in, Uber came onto the scene promising the kind of world-changing big payday investors craved. The company continually rolled out flashy new services from helicopter rides to puppies on demand. Executives made plans not only to expand worldwide, including China, but also to remake everything from food delivery to driverless cars.

Kalanick's approach was brazen and nakedly capitalistic. Unlike Google or Facebook, which famously brought in "adults" Eric Schmidt and Sheryl Sandberg to help manage a growing enterprise, Kalanick remained the face of the firm, which he referred to as "Boob-er" in a 2014 interview with GQ because it had made him more popular with women. Traits often ascribed to Steve Jobs-pique, occasional churlishness-were in Kalanick married to the missionary zeal of an engineer who would make the world more efficient if only obstructionists would let him. "He's a fighter. He is against institutional structures," Schmidt told TIME in 2015. "He can be disagreeable in that sense that, well, he disagrees."

Kalanick's readiness to fight-with lawmakers, competitors, reporters-was at first an asset. Compared to firms like Google, which flew under the radar for years before rubbing up against regulators, Uber was born into conflict. "Everything this company has almost ever done has been a battle," says Avi Savar, CEO of Dreamit, a startup accelerator and venture-capital firm. That made Uber successful going up against comparatively sclerotic municipal governments in cities like New York, but also encouraged what some employees have described as a bunker-like paranoia among executives.

"When you have a value system that is in some ways a benefit to you in the early days when you're charging really hard, it can turn into a tragic flaw," says Stephen Beck, founder of consulting firm cg42. "'Run fast, break things, and we can pick up the pieces later' is O.K. until it's not O.K."

Even as his penchant for public arrogance increasingly made Kalanick a bête noire to some, it worked for Uber. Between 2009 and today, the company raised more than $15 billion, eventually becoming the most valuable venture-backed company in history. In an era of "unicorns"-startups valued at $1 billion-Uber was the decacorn. Until it looked liked it was on the way to becoming the first hectocorn, valued at $100 billion.

Some of Uber's problems were on public display. Drivers sued over their legal classification, saying Uber should treat them as employees-with the attendant benefits-if it was going to do things like set the price they could earn per mile. Some complained they weren't even making minimum wage. Among its millions of riders, horror stories of being assaulted or kidnapped made news, and legal battles ensued over who bore responsibility when people got hurt or mistreated. Competitor Lyft accused Uber of underhanded tactics like calling for and canceling rides to jam up the smaller rival.

 - - - [ read the rest of the article _*HERE*_ ] - - -


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## Mike Flynn (Feb 16, 2017)

Where there is opportunity, there will be problems.

Freedom is never free. You're Free To turn app on and off whenever u want.

Subsequently paid below minimum wage.
Employees don't have that freedom.

If designated "employees", and told to work specific shifts Uber would lose
72.8% of drivers. Those are drivers who have f/t employment outside of the ground transportation industry.

Want to be a ground transportation employee? Become a taxi driver and sit outside of
Hotels & Airports hour after hour after hour. The life of salaried taxi drivers.

Oh, and u better speak fluent Urdu


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Mike Flynn said:


> Where there is opportunity, there will be problems.
> 
> Freedom is never free. You're Free To turn app on and off whenever u want.
> 
> ...


This is FALSE!

There is nothing in employment law that requires employees to work shifts or have a schedule. This is the narrative of Uber because they don't want to pay minimum wage, overtime, unemployment, healthcare, workers comp, employment taxes etc.

The reality is as an employee, you will still have a flexible schedule, but you will get all the benefits as well. Uber just uses a set schedule as a threat.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Mike Flynn said:


> If designated "employees", and told to work specific shifts


 That's a very big if. Or, more accurately, a very big "and..."
Is there any reason that as an employer they couldn't implement a program for setting and choosing shifts similar to what Amazon does with flex?
There is absolutely nothing that says an employer must set hours and shifts for an employee. It is a bad assumption on our parts to assume that as an employer Uber would do that. I think everything points to quite the opposite. (Just my opinion)


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Mike Flynn said:


> I'm an uber driver and signed a contractual agreement which included below minimum wage remuneration . I am Free not to tap the uber app. I am free to find other employment , I am free to tap the app and drive 24/7 or zero/zero.
> 
> Freedom ain't Free
> 
> ...


Nowhere does this state employee status must have set schedule or work shifts. If Uber wants drivers, they will adapt to a flexible schedule.


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## Mike Flynn (Feb 16, 2017)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Nowhere does this state employee status must have set schedule or work shifts. If Uber wants drivers, they will adapt to a flexible schedule.


Uber has a steady flow of drivers with new Camerys and their biz continues to grow.
Passengers do not want experienced drivers, they want Low dirt cheap fares

Uber doubled its gross bookings to $20 billion in 2016, and its net revenue was up to $6.8 billion. In short, the company continues to grow despite all its failings.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/12/15782566/uber-scandal-ceo-travis-kalanick-emil-michael-deleteuber


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Mike Flynn said:


> Uber has a steady flow of drivers with new Camerys and their biz continues to grow.
> Passengers do not want experienced drivers, they want Low dirt cheap fares
> 
> Uber doubled its gross bookings to $20 billion in 2016, and its net revenue was up to $6.8 billion. In short, the company continues to grow despite all its failings.
> https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/12/15782566/uber-scandal-ceo-travis-kalanick-emil-michael-deleteuber


I'm not disagreeing with anything you just said. I simply pointed out your original post is FALSE. I also pointed out if Uber wants to retain drivers or recruit new ones after they are forced to implement an employee status, they will keep the drivers schedule flexible. I will also point out the riders wishes are not a factor when determining employment status.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Mike Flynn said:


> Benefits: an employer will need to pay u less to afford your benefits. Your choice.


Or, their choice: An employer will need to raise the prices on their products/services to cover the costs of those products/services and company profit instead of subsidizing the real costs by exploiting its workers..

I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying - but you seem to be be intentionally posting just one-sided arguments. That's not honest debate.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Or, their choice: An employer will need to raise the prices on their products/services to cover the costs of those products/services and company profit instead of subsidizing the real costs by exploiting its workers..
> 
> I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying - but you seem to be be intentionally posting just one-sided arguments. That's not honest debate.


The very minimum you would be paid as an employee of Uber for driving would be minimum wage PLUS THE EXPENSE OF OPERATING YOUR VEHICLE (likely a per mile amount). In addition, you get all the benefits of being an employee like health insurance, employer paid tax benefits, workers comp, sick pay, paid breaks, overtime, etc.


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## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> The very minimum you would be paid as an employee of Uber for driving would be minimum wage PLUS THE EXPENSE OF OPERATING YOUR VEHICLE (likely a per mile amount). In addition, you get all the benefits of being an employee like health insurance, employer paid tax benefits, workers comp, sick pay, paid breaks, overtime, etc.


One caveat... unless I'm mistaken paid time off is not something that is covered under the flsa but rather mandated by some states and municipalities.

Also, there is nothing in the law that says a company is required to pay expenses. If that were true, there would be no need for IRS From 2016 (Unreimbursed Employee Expenses).


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> One caveat... unless I'm mistaken paid time off is not something that is covered under the flsa but rather mandated by some states and municipalities.


True, I think it's a state law here in CA.

I forgot to mention one of the biggest benefits of being an employee... the ability to Unionize.


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## westsidebum (Feb 7, 2015)

Mike Flynn said:


> Your example is faulty. Real world IC non employee:
> 
> "An *independent contractor* is a person (drivers), business, or corporation that provides goods or services (chauffeur Uber's clients) to another entity (uber) under terms specified in a contract or within a verbal agreement.
> 
> ...


Uber and lyft both failed litmus test for classifying workers as independent contractors according to former head of dept labor. The excuse for not going after uber was politics and limited resources. Google npr survey faceless boss


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Mike Flynn said:


> Want to be a ground transportation employee? Become a taxi driver and sit outside of
> Hotels & Airports hour after hour after hour. The life of salaried taxi drivers.
> 
> Oh, and u better speak fluent Urdu


Taxi drivers are rarely salaried, in most places, cabs were leased.

And refugees from Urdustan and other foreign lands scooped up the jobs, largely because it was looked at as a hard way to make a living, a poverty job.

Kalanick's great success was turning the image of ground transportation as putting on the Ultimate Side Hustle, which was appropriate for middle class people to use their late model cars doing. While paying the newly minted Uber drivers less than Bhutanese and Senegalese immigrants needed.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

ACHUMA said:


> http://time.com/magazine/us/4819553/june-26th-2017-vol-189-no-24-u-s/


Well,
It appears that for Uber
" TIME HAS COME TODAY"- Chambers Brothers
" Uber should get Harder every year"- Travis K.
Humming " Time has Come Today".
" Now time has come.
Theres no place to run".



UberBlackDriverLA said:


> True, I think it's a state law here in CA.
> 
> I forgot to mention one of the biggest benefits of being an employee... the ability to Unionize.


Its a wonder Uber isnt proven to " cause cancer in California".
Everything else does . . . . .


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Michael - Cleveland said:


> http://time.com/magazine/us/4819553/june-26th-2017-vol-189-no-24-u-s/
> *Uber Fail: Upheaval at the World's Most Valuable Startup is a Wake-Up Call For Silicon Valley*
> *Chaos at the world's most valuable venture-backed company is forcing Silicon Valley to question its values*
> 
> ...


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Mike Flynn said:


> "flexible schedule" doesn't happen at Menial Level Jobs. Ground transportation is Menial Low Skill Low Wage Job.
> .


Actually, low level jobs often have very flexible schedules. Golf caddies don't work when its raining, tow drivers often take the day off when its nice, you never know what business is going to be in the restaurant racket.

Flexibility is the key, and there are employees and independent contractors in all of your "menial" job categories, even if they are flexible or not so much.



Michael - Cleveland said:


> hehe... well, between 'employee' status and 'unions', you just lost 90% of the TNC drivers!


I like "independent" status as a cab driver. Yellow Cab didn't pretend to supervise me, and as long as I paid my lease, they could care less what I did.

The money was collected in cash, I didn't answer to YC as to what I made. YC was providing me a service, and I was paying them.

Worked out smooth.

Uber changed the rules, and now basically micromanages through a computer app, thousands of drivers. Have to keep your ratings up, approval and cancellation percentage, blah blah blah. Might as well be an employee.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

I_Like_Spam said:


> Actually, low level jobs often have very flexible schedules. Golf caddies don't work when its raining, tow drivers often take the day off when its nice, you never know what business is going to be in the restaurant racket.
> 
> Flexibility is the key, and there are employees and independent contractors in all of your "menial" job categories, even if they are flexible or not so much.
> 
> ...


An employee with A.I.( Artificial Intellegence) as a boss.
Such " Real World" experience Algorithms have !

A.I.Robots have been quoted in "interviews" as saying it would " keep a few humans in a zoo, for ' old times sake' ".
How nice.
Take our jobs and keep us in a zoo(projects)
Thanks Uber !
NO NEED TO TIP !

Maybe they'll name the Zoo " Garden of Eden".


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Cableguynoe said:


> There's more than 8 ants in that screenshot! Is that what it would look like if Uber allowed us to see all the ants?


" If you are Not part of the Solution
You are Part of the Problem"- Nancy Reagan


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## Nitedriver (Jun 19, 2014)

Mike Flynn said:


> Where there is opportunity, there will be problems.
> 
> Freedom is never free. You're Free To turn app on and off whenever u want.
> 
> ...


So you say freedom is just a dream ?? or a blue sky with no ending ??


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## Safe_Driver_4_U (Apr 2, 2017)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> True, I think it's a state law here in CA.
> 
> I forgot to mention one of the biggest benefits of being an employee... the ability to Unionize.


 the app can be used to destroy Uber and Lyft's business model. We need a driver owned TNC, the industry investors have completely overlooked this possibility. Simple concept, better than any union, all drivers own a share of the overall revenue after operating expenses, in addition to the reasonable fare. You wanna see disruption ...that would be disruption. Unions are archaic in light of today's technology. why would anyone want to get involved with unions when they could own the company? Unions are like homeowners associations just deep pockets for cronies and lawyers to plunder https://www.counterpunch.org/2011/01/26/dying-to-be-a-carpenter/


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## Skepticaldriver (Mar 5, 2017)




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## aeiou_- (Jul 5, 2015)

I may catch some heat for this and I'm all for the idea of a workplace free from sexual harrassment, discriminatino, etc.. but I am pretty disappointed that the coverage and focus about Uber's wrongdoing and failure has been centered more around the inappropriate "company culture" back at hq, some of it revolving around treatment of women. At the end of the day, someone hijacked the real conversation and shifted the focus away from the real problem. They took the spotlight away from the people who "those employees" at uber complaining about discrimination have been screwing this whole time, the drivers. We come in all shapes, sizes, colors, ages, and drive an assortment of colored vehicles. These paxholes are going to reform "the culture" for their benefit, and keep screwing us. If they really care, we have plenty of women driving, too. In some weird disconnected/connected way, we've all been in the trenches together, my friends. And through all the great bonuses and crappy quests, it's been a pleasure.


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## lowcountry dan (Jun 15, 2017)

The way I see it, companies in general have been destroying working people for at least a decade. Most company's highest cost is payroll, so they cut from the bottom and have not a care in the World about retaining good employees or maintaining a level of excellence. They simply want the cheapest help they can find. Many big companies are simply balking at high salaries. They will not pay them unless they have no choice. It is a very delicate balance between Labor and Management. That apple cart has been upset, and millions are feeling it's effect.

All is not lost, but a glut of Labor bodes very poorly for those seeking gainful employment. Trades and skills which are in high demand are the best ways to command a fair and decent wage.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Well, you can't question their credentials. When it comes to failure, Time is a leading expert.


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## Steveyoungerthanmontana (Nov 19, 2016)

Lol Some woman got asked out for dinner by a manager and that's what got Kalanick fired?!!!! 

Not one mention of the sweatshop wages for its drivers!!!! Wow! 

Who's cares if the Becky who makes six figures got asked out on a date!

These people are morons!!!

Well now we know what to do when we want the next CEO fired if the wages don't go up. 

Someone find something politically incorrect that the new CEO has done, and have six figure Becky write a blog about it!!


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## majxl (Jan 6, 2017)

More and more investors are realizing that Uber and other FHV are highly inefficient transportation service. Also, they are unable to operate without massive outside investments and have been loosing consistently billions every year.


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## Coffeekeepsmedriving (Oct 2, 2015)

ACHUMA said:


> http://time.com/magazine/us/4819553/june-26th-2017-vol-189-no-24-u-s/[/Q
> So time magazine is so great..I would never read time magazine its only the option of The times.. This is a waste of money to buy this magazine.
> I can read 10 magazines at my dentist office and not take anything away form it..
> How good can it be when it on all doctor waiting rooms table


So time magazine is so great..I would never read time magazine its only the option of The times.. This is a waste of money to buy this magazine.
I can read 10 magazines at my dentist office and not take anything away form it..
How good can it be when it on all doctor waiting rooms table


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Coffeekeepsmedriving said:


> So time magazine is so great..I would never read time magazine its only the option of The times.. This is a waste of money to buy this magazine.
> I can read 10 magazines at my dentist office and not take anything away form it..
> How good can it be when it on all doctor waiting rooms table


Good cover art.


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> " If you are Not part of the Solution
> You are Part of the Problem"- Nancy Reagan


oH I thought it was "if you're not part of the problem, your are part of the precipitate.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> oH I thought it was "if you're not part of the problem, your are part of the precipitate.


Looking out the window at the precipitation now . . . vague attempted formation of a tropical storm in the gulf 36 miles away. May rain for days, a week. Even.
( Hoping this isnt the year a big wave takes my house)

We must coalesce and condense as cohesive members.
A union could form the centrifuge needed to extract a living wage from those starving us into 84 hour weeks for a substandard living.

Drivers MUST quit subsidising Uber !

LOWER RATES MEAN MORE MONEY !
NO NEED TO TIP !


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## SurgeWarrior (Jun 18, 2016)

ACHUMA said:


> http://time.com/magazine/us/4819553/june-26th-2017-vol-189-no-24-u-s/


It makes absolutely no difference to me that they are changing the culture at HQ..I couldnt care less if female coders are harassed or they are sniffing cocaine off of hookers in the cafeteria! None of this will affect the drivers compensation..so boo hoo to the delicate flowers who are making 200k+ and stock options!


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## Undermensch (Oct 21, 2015)

SurgeWarrior said:


> It makes absolutely no difference to me that they are changing the culture at HQ..I couldnt care less if female coders are harassed or they are sniffing cocaine off of hookers in the cafeteria! None of this will affect the drivers compensation..so boo hoo to the delicate flowers who are making 200k+ and stock options!


Actually it does affect driver' compensation. Just like their wasted investments in self driving cars (they will happen but it won't be Uber who creates them) and trying to do rideshare in China, the money they lose from employees leaving shortly after starting and the money they pay out in lawsuits comes from us (sure, a portion of it comes from investors but the money we earn them is going to be used to pay the investors back, so it still comes from us).

They have increased their cut several times and are now doing things like paying us lower surge than the rider paid to try to make money against all these ways that they waste money. So you better believe that it matters to you (whether you acknowledge that or want to talk about it is a different issue).


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## Haskel45 (Feb 9, 2017)

BOTTOMLINE

*One senior Silicon Valley executive whom Uber tried and failed to poach last year told the Guardian that his job interview left him with the impression the company had little regard for its current fleet of human workers.

The executive said he asked Uber's chief product officer, Jeff Holden, about the company's long-term viability given the discontent he had observed among its drivers, and was shocked at the reply. "He said, 'Well, we're just going to replace them all with robots'. It was quite chilling." (An Uber spokesman said that Holden does not recall making the comments.)*


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## Mr Magoo (Aug 2, 2016)

ACHUMA said:


> http://time.com/magazine/us/4819553/june-26th-2017-vol-189-no-24-u-s/


LMFAO at the half star....Time was generous.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> " If you are Not part of the Solution
> You are Part of the Problem"- Nancy Reagan


Yes, _well..._she also quipped, _Just Say No
_
The world has to TK!



Mr Magoo said:


> LMFAO at the half star....Time was generous.


They had to put the Half Star, lest it look like the Rating had not yet occurred. They would have given 0 Stars, but couldn't figure out how to do that and get their point across. lol


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## UberGeo (Jan 16, 2017)

Safe_Driver_4_U said:


> the app can be used to destroy Uber and Lyft's business model. We need a driver owned TNC, the industry investors have completely overlooked this possibility. https://www.counterpunch.org/2011/01/26/dying-to-be-a-carpenter/


 There was a driver owned TNC... Juno
They sold out.

www.google.com/amp/observer.com/2017/04/gett-acquires-juno/amp/


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## Safe_Driver_4_U (Apr 2, 2017)

UberGeo said:


> There was a driver owned TNC... Juno
> They sold out.
> 
> www.google.com/amp/observer.com/2017/04/gett-acquires-juno/amp/


 it appears from reading the article Juno was just another start up scam, it certainly wasn't owned by the drivers and controlled by drivers and it wasn't a non profit mutual benefit corp. I am trying to tell people apples can exist and you are telling me an orange is an apple. Furthermore, the state of the media today lacks credibility, that article could be a thousand miles off mark and the gullible masses will shake their heads up and down "yes, it must be true I read it"


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

SurgeWarrior said:


> It makes absolutely no difference to me that they are changing the culture at HQ..I couldnt care less if female coders are harassed or they are sniffing cocaine off of hookers in the cafeteria! None of this will affect the drivers compensation..so boo hoo to the delicate flowers who are making 200k+ and stock options!


Amen brudder.
For $200k I can handle some sexual harassment.

"oooh baby, yea, I'll harass you ALL night long"


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## UberGeo (Jan 16, 2017)

Safe_Driver_4_U said:


> it appears from reading the article Juno was just another start up scam, it certainly wasn't owned by the drivers and controlled by drivers and it wasn't a non profit mutual benefit corp. I am trying to tell people apples can exist and you are telling me an orange is an apple. Furthermore, the state of the media today lacks credibility, that article could be a thousand miles off mark and the gullible masses will shake their heads up and down "yes, it must be true I read it"


Not arguing the case... Do your own research with more articles. Track their history, etc. Educate yourself. I gave you a head start. Maybe, this can be an example of lessons learned for others try that option.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd (Aug 17, 2015)

Not a lot of actual "reporting" in this piece. Basically, a puff rehash of old news. I'm beginning to think this is actually all PR spin and the company is pushing this narrative so that nobody pays attention to the fundamental flaws.

Sexual harrassment and misogynistic SV "bro culture" @ HQ didn't lose $8 Billion of investor capital. A terrible business plan, horrible strategic execution and a dysfunctional organization did. 

This isn't about some highly compensated gals getting their panties all in a wad. All of the things the media is talking about only affect a few hundred employees, their stock options and a future (??) IPO. 

None of this stuff affects the rider/driver engagement, which is what produces ALL of the revenue. Until they address the inequity in their current model, nothing really changes. More smoke and hot air from the Guber Gas Machine.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> This is FALSE!
> 
> There is nothing in employment law that requires employees to work shifts or have a schedule. This is the narrative of Uber because they don't want to pay minimum wage, overtime, unemployment, healthcare, workers comp, employment taxes etc.
> 
> The reality is as an employee, you will still have a flexible schedule, but you will get all the benefits as well. Uber just uses a set schedule as a threat.


 I would imagine that most most companies, if you are an employee, will probably set a schedule for you because that is in their best interest ( or that's what they are likely to believe) though technically you are correct there is no law requiring them to do so, but it is very likely they will.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> I would imagine that most most companies, if you are an employee, will probably set a schedule for you because that is in their best interest ( or that's what they are likely to believe) though technically you are correct there is no law requiring them to do so, but it is very likely they will.


Actually, it is very likely that they will NOT. As you said, the reason a company sets a schedule because its in their best interest. In the case of Uber, it would not be in their best interest to set a schedule, thus unlikely they would do so.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd (Aug 17, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Actually, it is very likely that they will NOT. As you said, the reason a company sets a schedule because its in their best interest. In the case of Uber, it would not be in their best interest to set a schedule, thus unlikely they would do so.


This debate will rage on, but if you were running Uber Ops how would you do it? Pay drivers minimum wage so they can go hide in tunnels or in the middle of a corn field ducking rides?

It would be a national GTG epidemic all over again. That's NOT going to happen. If Uber HAS to pay a federal/state minimum wage, then you can bet there will be very specific conditions governing Who, When, Where one can login.

As it stands now, they rdc because there is zero cost to them if drivers are idle. If they have to go W2 then they'll simply fold up. 1099 is the whole shebang to their biz model.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> This debate will rage on, but if you were running Uber Ops how would you do it? Pay drivers minimum wage so they can go hide in tunnels or in the middle of a corn field ducking rides?
> 
> It would be a national GTG epidemic all over again. That's NOT going to happen. If Uber HAS to pay a federal/state minimum wage, then you can bet there will be very specific conditions governing Who, When, Where one can login.
> 
> As it stands now, they rdc because there is zero cost to them if drivers are idle. If they have to go W2 then they'll simply fold up. 1099 is the whole shebang to their biz model.


This is not true.

Uber would only have to pay an hourly wage from the time you accept the ping. Uber would not have to pay drivers during on call time (the stage where you are waiting for a ping). If you are not required to be at work (on location) during on call time and you are free to reject jobs, no on call pay would be required.

This is not the issue with Uber. Their issue is paying minimum wage, healthcare, employment taxes, unemployment, reimbursing for car expense, workers comp etc.


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## ontheroad (Aug 31, 2014)

lowcountry dan said:


> The way I see it, companies in general have been destroying working people for at least a decade. Most company's highest cost is payroll, so they cut from the bottom and have not a care in the World about retaining good employees or maintaining a level of excellence. They simply want the cheapest help they can find. Many big companies are simply balking at high salaries. They will not pay them unless they have no choice. It is a very delicate balance between Labor and Management. That apple cart has been upset, and millions are feeling it's effect.
> 
> All is not lost, but a glut of Labor bodes very poorly for those seeking gainful employment. Trades and skills which are in high demand are the best ways to command a fair and decent wage.


You nailed it!!!! The struggle between labor and owners has never been more evident: The gloves are off and the owners are going for the knockout punch.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd (Aug 17, 2015)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> This is not true.
> 
> Uber would only have to pay an hourly wage from the time you accept the ping. Uber would not have to pay drivers during on call time (the stage where you are waiting for a ping). If you are not required to be at work (on location) during on call time and you are free to reject jobs, no on call pay would be required.
> 
> This is not the issue with Uber. Their issue is paying minimum wage, healthcare, employment taxes, unemployment, reimbursing for car expense, workers comp etc.


I agree completely with the last paragraph, but if the first paragraph is also true, then why does Uber resist? They charge the rider X amount for a 30 minute trip, pay you the minimum $4 wage, or whatever, another buck in various payroll taxes and still make their 50% rake. Because they can charge the customer whatever amount the customer is willing to pay.

The law does NOT require them to reimburse your mileage expense as an employee. It is an allowable business expense if they do so. Or, you can claim it on your tax return. Many trades have non reimbursed expenses.

But, if you become an employee, then your work WILL be subject to whatever legal conditions they impose. And know one knows what those will be!!


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Actually, it is very likely that they will NOT. As you said, the reason a company sets a schedule because its in their best interest. In the case of Uber, it would not be in their best interest to set a schedule, thus unlikely they would do so.


 I disagree. the only reason they don't require shifts right now is because of the rules for what constitute independent contractor versus employee. up to a few years ago all the taxi companies required scheduled shifts and you had an option of working as independent contractor commission, lease, or a wage and they were always specified shifts , hours, etc., this was yellow cab back in the eighties and nineties in San Diego before they were converted into a cooperative which is now the way of the future for most cab companies these days which allows you a lot more freedom. but make no mistake about it, if it's a big company's its in it's best interest to schedule drivers and have a predictable fleet of cars out there. this idea that it's in your best interest to let Vehicles float is nonsense --the only reason they do it is to comply with independent contractor 1099 laws Etc.


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> I disagree. the only reason they don't require shifts right now is because of the rules for what constitute independent contractor versus employee. up to a few years ago all the taxi companies required scheduled shifts and you had an option of working as independent contractor commission, lease, or a wage and they were always specified shifts , hours, etc., this was yellow cab back in the eighties and nineties in San Diego before they were converted into a cooperative which is now the way of the future for most cab companies these days which allows you a lot more freedom. but make no mistake about it, if it's a big company's its in it's best interest to schedule drivers and have a predictable fleet of cars out there. this idea that it's in your best interest to let Vehicles float is nonsense --the only reason they do it is to comply with independent contractor 1099 laws Etc.


Your thinking is very old school. Since you are so astute in employment law, please cite the law that requires employees to have set schedules. Good luck!

While it may have been in the best interest of outdated cab companies to have set schedules, this is no longer the case. The prime reason it is not in the best interest of TNCs to have set schedules is they would never have enough drivers if they did. They only way to get anywhere close to enough drivers is letting drivers work whenever they want to and pay them more (surge rates) when they need more drivers on the road.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Your thinking is very old school. Since you are so astute in employment law, please cite the law that requires employees to have set schedules. Good luck!
> 
> While it may have been in the best interest of outdated cab companies to have set schedules, this is no longer the case. The prime reason it is not in the best interest of TNCs to have set schedules is they would never have enough drivers if they did. They only way to get anywhere close to enough drivers is letting drivers work whenever they want to and pay them more (surge rates) when they need more drivers on the road.


You're not very astute, I did not say "law requires" hence the language "they'll do it because it's in their best interest. "
Yes, old school, as making drivers employees is 'old school' which will prompt an old school mentality if and when that becomes law, which I sincerely doubt. Uber will win on appeal, there is too much precedent in Uber's favor on this one.

The ONLY reason rideshare companies do not "have enough drivers" is that they pay them way too little -- pay them a good wage and drivers will be banging down Uber's doors to work for Uber. Look ma, no more millions spent on TV and radio recruitment advertising! 
I guess paying drivers enough to live on is "old school". Well, I'll take old school over this new libertarian fantasyland they are trying to force us into, any day of the week.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

Mike Flynn said:


> Want to be a ground transportation employee? Become a taxi driver and sit outside of
> Hotels & Airports hour after hour after hour. The life of salaried taxi drivers.


Or......become an owner/operator in a taxi Co-op and drive any tine you want.

I can drive anytime I like, any day I like, any amount of hours (up to the legal limit) I want. And I can do this while getting paid decent rates, not slave wages you get for trading your equity in your personal car for a paycheck.

These old war stories are amuzing, but simply not true.

BTW.. the people you see sitting at hotels and airports for hours and hours theses days all have Uber and Lyft stickers in the window It's time to change your stereotype to include TNC's. ;-)


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> You're not very astute, I did not say "law requires" hence the language "they'll do it because it's in their best interest. "
> Yes, old school, as making drivers employees is 'old school' which will prompt an old school mentality if and when that becomes law, which I sincerely doubt. Uber will win on appeal, there is too much precedent in Uber's favor on this one.
> 
> The ONLY reason rideshare companies do not "have enough drivers" is that they pay them way too little -- pay them a good wage and drivers will be banging down Uber's doors to work for Uber. Look ma, no more millions spent on TV and radio recruitment advertising!
> I guess paying drivers enough to live on is "old school". Well, I'll take old school over this new libertarian fantasyland they are trying to force us into, any day of the week.


Well, we can agree on one thing.... pay the drivers enough and you will have enough drivers. Unfortunately that is not the reality.

The recent precedents are against Uber. Look at FedEx and others. One big hurdle for Uber is there is no financial investment/risk for drivers who use their own personal vehicles.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Well, we can agree on one thing.... pay the drivers enough and you will have enough drivers. Unfortunately that is not the reality.
> 
> The recent precedents are against Uber. Look at FedEx and others. One big hurdle for Uber is there is no financial investment/risk for drivers who use their own personal vehicles.


 Comparing Uber to FedEx is appless and oranges. as for no investment risk I have a $20,000 car that I'm putting 300 miles a day on for which I not being compensated, a vehicle for which I specifically purchased for Uber as did thousands of others


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## UberBlackDriverLA (Aug 21, 2014)

Oscar Levant said:


> Comparing Uber to FedEx is appless and oranges. as for no investment risk I have a $20,000 car that I'm putting 300 miles a day on for which I not being compensated, a vehicle for which I specifically purchased for Uber as did thousands of others


Once again, the courts have ruled that using your own personal vehicle is NOT a significant investment. I hate to break it to you, but unless you registerd your car commercially and use it exclusively for business, then the court doesn't recognize it as an investment. (read the sacremento bee carrier ruling)

And your wrong about FedEx... it doesnt have to be oranges to oranges. It's a landmark case with many similar issues.



Oscar Levant said:


> Comparing Uber to FedEx is appless and oranges. as for no investment risk I have a $20,000 car that I'm putting 300 miles a day on for which I not being compensated, a vehicle for which I specifically purchased for Uber as did thousands of others


Also, I wouldn't brag about using a $20k car for UberX. Not the best decision.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Once again, the courts have ruled that using your own personal vehicle is NOT a significant investment. I hate to break it to you, but unless you registerd your car commercially and use it exclusively for business, then the court doesn't recognize it as an investment. (read the sacremento bee carrier ruling)


Probably not, but from where I sit, it was an investment, nonetheless. There are other issues I think are strong enough in uber's favor that they can overturn it on appeal, but I'm no lawyer.



> And your wrong about FedEx... it doesnt have to be oranges to oranges. It's a landmark case with many similar issues.


Some similar issues, but not the significant ones. Fedex trucks are painted identical with Fedex logos, etc. Fedex drivers have a stricter schedules (they pretty much confined to working schedules matched with commerce, day hours, for the most part, they wear uniforms, etc, so a lot more here than Uber in the "walks like a duck, etc.," dept. Uber drivers are not restricted whatsoever, no uniforms, no particular dress code, either, The areas of "precedence" for uber drivers are a long history of taxi cab owner/operators, which is more apples to apples than Fedex by a long shot, where they were independent contractors going back 40 years, taxicab companies that regulate drivers pretty much as much as Uber does. They haven't ruled taxi drivers as employees, noting for taxi owner/operators' vehicles are painted, outfitted, as much as Fedex trucks are. So, it's a question of degree of "walks like a duck" if there is enough in that dept to warrant employee status. What I think Uber will do is argue "selective application" i.e., if they rule Uber drivers are employees, they will have to convert the entire taxi industry to employees, and the whole industry will go belly up, which will result in way too much disruption of an industry. I think a good lawyer can pull this off for Uber. Dont' get me wrong, I wish Uber drivers are ruled as employees, but having been driving cabs since the 70s, as an independent contractor for all but 2 of those years, I'm not seeing it.



> Also, I wouldn't brag about using a $20k car for UberX. Not the best decision.


Nor would I, perhaps it's because I didn't.


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## Mike Flynn (Feb 16, 2017)

phillipzx3 said:


> Or......become an owner/operator in a taxi Co-op and drive any tine you want.
> 
> I can drive anytime I like, any day I like, any amount of hours (up to the legal limit) I want. And I can do this while getting paid decent rates, not slave wages you get for trading your equity in your personal car for a paycheck.
> 
> ...


No TNC allowed in destignated NYC, Boston, Philly nor Baltimore taxi stands most of which are in front of hotels where the drivers meet and gab for hours like The View of Pakistan.
Your hood must be advanced


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