# Lyft offering up to free rental cars for 65 trips a week



## MattyMikey

This is interesting. Lyft offering rental cars and they will be free if 65 plus rides a week. Includes all insurance and maintenance. Wow more incentive to drive Lyft only. Free use of vehicle and Power Bonus.

http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/14/lyft-gm-express-drive/

Two months after General Motors announced a $500 million investment in transportation startup Lyft to work on autonomous cars, the pair are launching their first service together. No, it's not a self-driving car fleet (yet); it's a short-term rental program called Express Drive: GM will provide all-in rental cars to Lyft drivers, who will pay between $99/week plus mileage and nothing at all, depending on how many Lyft rides they provide using the vehicles.

Going live first in Chicago with 500 vehicles, all of a single model - the Chevy Equinox- Express Drive will then roll out to three more cities - Boston, Washington, DC and Baltimore - before expanding elsewhere (and potentially to other car models).

Lyft and GM believe that Express Drive will help the pair lay the infrastructure for fleets of self-driving cars down the road. But one of the more immediate aims of Express Drive is simply to put more Lyft vehicles on the streets today.

In a press call with journalists on Monday, Lyft co-founder John Zimmer said that in the four cities where Lyft and GM are launching Express Drive first, 150,000 people that have signed up to drive for Lyft could not do it because they did not have suitable cars. In Chicago alone, there have been 60,000 applicants, he noted.

"We've now made car ownership optional on both sides of the market," Zimmer said, referring to drivers and passengers. "Now you don't need to own a vehicle to make money on the platform, or to give rides to passengers."

Lyft has launched past initiatives like Express Pay to sweeten the deal for drivers to choose Lyft over working for rivals like Uber. Express Drive is also constructed to incentivise drivers to take more Lyft rides.

Those who use the Express Drive car for less than 40 rides per week pay $99/week plus 20 cents per mile. Those who use the car for between 40 and 64 rides per week pay $99/week flat. And those who use the car for 65 or more rides per week pay nothing at all. And while drivers pay for gas, all other services including insurance are thrown into the single price, regardless of whether you are 'on call' with a passenger or driving the car for personal use, Lyft tells me. Cars can be rented for between one and eight weeks.

Lyft and GM are not disclosing the specifics of their financial terms for Express Drive but see it as a way of growing new revenue streams in their respective businesses. "We are still assessing the size of the program, but John and I are both hoping for solid financial results," said Julia Steyn, GM's VP of urban mobility.

Autonomous cars have been touted as a chief motivation behind GM's strategic investment in Lyft - and clearly it is a big priority with GM, which just last week acquired driverless car startup Cruise. But it will be years before these vehicles are widely in use. So the connection between this concept and today's rental news was a bit more tenuous.

Asked how the two were related, Steyn at GM said that Express Drive would help lay the groundwork for future vehicles.

"This is going to build structure for autonomous vehicles," Steyn said. "To create the infrastructure in many cities is very important, starting with ride sharing with Lyft&#8230; We are looking at a different future going forward. Vehicles will&#8230; need to be managed. This is about creating better assessment and vehicles on demand."

Indeed, if self-driving cars in their early days turn out to be cost prohibitive or impractical for the average consumer, you can imagine how a company like GM might consider ways of deploying fleets of them for specific use cases&#8230; like transportation services.

GM said it would implement some of the services around Express Drive by way of Maven, its new business unit that includes all the company's work on car ownership models of the future.

Express Drive services will include access to OnStar - GM's in-vehicle security, diagnostics, turn-by-turn navigation and calling system - along with maintenance and warranty servicing, and insurance.

This is not the first time that Lyft has offered a short-term leasing program to grow the number of drivers in its fleet. In October last year, it announced a rental deal with Hertz. But that program, which is now live in Las Vegas and Denver, seems to be more expensive - respectively starting at $119 and $139 per week - and it's also without the other perks that GM and Lyft are throwing into the deal.

Nor is Lyft the only on-demand transport service that has looked to rental and leasing programs to boost its fleet of vehicles on the road. Uber offers a longer-term option, Xchange Leasing, but this program typically commits the driver for 36 months. Uber has alsopartnered with Enterprise for short-term rentals.

Others further afield, like Lyft's network partner from India, Ola, also have built out rental programs to equip drivers with better cars. And there are other companies like HyreCar that exist solely to rent vehicles to drivers on these services.


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## UberKK

MattyMikey said:


> This is interesting. Lyft offering rental cars and they will be free if 65 plus rides a week. Includes all insurance and maintenance. Wow more incentive to drive Lyft only. Free use of vehicle and Power Bonus.
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/14/lyft-gm-express-drive/


Very interesting that's about a 500-600 mo value vs Uber


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## MattyMikey

Exactly. And I like the fact that insurance in all periods is covered, including personal. Plus if you did the amount of rides to get vehicle free that would mean you would get the Power Bonus and not pay any commission. That value savings would be equal to over $1,000 a month for a full time driver potentially. This would be enough to take drivers away from Uber completely.


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## KMANDERSON

MattyMikey said:


> Exactly. And I like the fact that insurance in all periods is covered, including personal. Plus if you did the amount of rides to get vehicle free that would mean you would get the Power Bonus and not pay any commission. That value savings would be equal to over $1,000 a month for a full time driver potentially. This would be enough to take drivers away from Uber completely.


What about when you turn the app off and head home our reposition you self in busy area do they count that as personal miles.Personal miles you pay 20 cent a mile


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## RightTurnClyde

MattyMikey said:


> This is interesting. Lyft offering rental cars and they will be free if 65 plus rides a week. Includes all insurance and maintenance. Wow more incentive to drive Lyft only. Free use of vehicle and Power Bonus.
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/14/lyft-gm-express-drive/


Holy smokes!!!!! Very smart move!!!! This is something that is much more beneficial to both sides. Don't mess this up Chicago... lol


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## UberPartnerDennis

This right here is a great deal....for those who drive full time its a winner...you get a free car for up to 8 weeks...are able to keep a higher percentage of your earnings (not have to pay insurance and maintenance) and its a vehicle that you qualify for the PDB in....Lyft just changed the game and upped the ante against screwber...well done Lyft


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## Disgusted Driver

It's actually hard to say if this is a good thing or not. The benefits are obvious, a free car to drive around in??? Um, sure. But what if you aren't making the trips, $100 a week if you miss the 75, not so great. So everyone runs out to do this and then we have oversupply, hard to get your rides and you end up taking marginal crap 15 minutes away because you need the numbers, ... Why only 1-8 weeks?

I hope it works out, be interesting to see.


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## RightTurnClyde

Disgusted Driver said:


> It's actually hard to say if this is a good thing or not. The benefits are obvious, a free car to drive around in??? Um, sure. But what if you aren't making the trips, $100 a week if you miss the 75, not so great. So everyone runs out to do this and then we have oversupply, hard to get your rides and you end up taking marginal crap 15 minutes away because you need the numbers, ... Why only 1-8 weeks?
> 
> I hope it works out, be interesting to see.


Hope it works out too!

With this deal as its stated, if you didn't hit 75 trips that's on the driver not the opportunity IMO. In my market most Lyft drivers spend most or even all their time chasing surge on uber. Sure would keep these drivers off uber most of the week wouldn't it? Lyft/Drivers/GM best win-win I've ever come across concerning rideshare.


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## MattyMikey

Disgusted Driver said:


> It's actually hard to say if this is a good thing or not. The benefits are obvious, a free car to drive around in??? Um, sure. But what if you aren't making the trips, $100 a week if you miss the 75, not so great. So everyone runs out to do this and then we have oversupply, hard to get your rides and you end up taking marginal crap 15 minutes away because you need the numbers, ... Why only 1-8 weeks?
> 
> I hope it works out, be interesting to see.


It is 65 trips not 75 so very doable. But if not and you have to pay it, you don't have to pay any insurance or maintenance costs. Better than buying or leasing a car. 8 weeks is probably per contract and then turn in to get another vehicle. Laws regarding insurance and car rental vs financing. Plus they need the car back to do the maintenance upkeep.


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## MattyMikey

KMANDERSON said:


> What about when you turn the app off and head home our reposition you self in busy area do they count that as personal miles.Personal miles you pay 20 cent a mile


Drive the 40+ rides a week to have unlimited mileage or it's not really worth it anyways.


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## Chip Dawg

IRS loves this deal.


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## MattyMikey

Lol. Guess you have more to spend on the water to claim.


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## Muki

Sounds really interesting. I wonder what GM is getting out of the deal? Is the value for them the promotion of people riding around in their new vehicles? I'll have to see the fine print. Sounds too good to be true. 65 rides in a week is easily attainable, even as a part-timer if you live in a fairly large city. And even if you didn't hit your mark and had to pay $99, that's still pretty good since using your own car would cost you more than that a week in depreciation and wear and tear. I'd gladly pay $99 a week for a car that included ride share insurance. And now you can drive weekend nights and not worry about someone puking in your personal vehicle. I stopped driving last year, but if this comes to my market, sign me up.

I'm guessing that there will be a limited amount of these GM cars available.


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## Rex8976

Transport people.....
Rented vehicle....
Maintenance...

Sounds eerily familiar.


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## everythingsuber

Muki said:


> Sounds really interesting. I wonder what GM is getting out of the deal? Is the value for them the promotion of people riding around in their new vehicles? I'll have to see the fine print. Sounds too good to be true. 65 rides in a week is easily attainable, even as a part-timer if you live in a fairly large city. And even if you didn't hit your mark and had to pay $99, that's still pretty good since using your own car would cost you more than that a week in depreciation and wear and tear. I'd gladly pay $99 a week for a car that included ride share insurance. And now you can drive weekend nights and not worry about someone puking in your personal vehicle. I stopped driver last year, but if this comes to my market, sign me up.
> 
> I'm guessing that there will be a limited amount of these GM cars available.


Does say 500 cars available at first.Guess they can do the math from there. They aren't going to flood the market. It's a ride target not a earnings target. It's interesting.


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## everythingsuber

Rex8976 said:


> Transport people.....
> Rented vehicle....
> Maintenance...
> 
> Sounds eerily familiar.


Yeah but this time it's different


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## Rex8976

Sounds like a ....


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## MattyMikey

Can't be a taxi because they don't do maintenance on them. They're always trashy vehicles.


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## Rex8976

MattyMikey



MattyMikey said:


> Can't be a taxi because they don't do maintenance on them. They're always trashy vehicles.


Wow! What a clever response!

I forgot that every taxi everywhere is a 1979 Chevy Impala!

Learn to take a joke.


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## AllenChicago

I wonder when the official announcement will come from Lyft. So far, nothing on this program in any of our Chicago newsletters or announcements. Maybe its being discreetly offered to the full-time drivers first, via e-mail invites. Hopefully those Chevy Equinox's aren't too stripped down. Air Conditioning is important!


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## MattyMikey

Rex8976 said:


> MattyMikey
> 
> Wow! What a clever response!
> 
> I forgot that every taxi everywhere is a 1979 Chevy Impala!
> 
> Learn to take a joke.


Sorry it was sarcasm and meant to be funny. Thought I did a LOL.


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## MattyMikey

AllenChicago said:


> I wonder when the official announcement will come from Lyft. So far, nothing on this program in any of our Chicago newsletters or announcements. Maybe its being discreetly offered to the full-time drivers first, via e-mail invites. Hopefully those Chevy Equinox's aren't too stripped down. Air Conditioning is important!


Is there any new cars that don't have air conditioning anymore? Lol


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## Muki

I really would like to know though how this is helping GM. Is Lyft buying the cars from GM to least to their drivers? If that's the case than it's profit for GM, and possibly a loss for Lyft upfront in order to expand their user and driver base. If GM is fronting the cost, I'm trying to figure out what they're getting out of the deal. I know Lyft and GM are interested in driverless cars down the road, but that's not even close to ready. One possible thing I could conceive of is that fewer people will buy new cars if Lyft ridership increases. That means fewer foreign vehicle purchases and more GM cars getting people around.

Btw, Uber lowering Detroit's rates to 30 cents was Travis' way of trying to hurt Lyft for their new relationship with GM. Really tells you the piece of shit Travis is to screw over his Detroit drivers in order to give the finger to Lyft.


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## Rex8976

MattyMikey



MattyMikey said:


> Sorry it was sarcasm and meant to be funny. Thought I did a LOL.


 <---- Your best friends!

No autopsy, no foul.


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## MattyMikey

Rex8976 said:


> MattyMikey
> 
> <---- Your best friends!
> 
> No autopsy, no foul.


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## Chicago-uber

MattyMikey said:


> Is there any new cars that don't have air conditioning anymore? Lol


These cars better have power windows and a place to stick the aux cord.


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## Disgusted Driver

From GM's point of view it's much like fleet cars for rental companies. It gives people exposure to theitr cars and increases their manufacturing base a little (lowering their costs). With an MSRP of about 25K with some options and transportation so they probably cost GM about 16K to make. If they are guaranteed $99 a week from Lyft for the car then they are getting 10K for the car in the first 2 years and you figure 6K goes to the car, 4K goes to insurance and maintenence so at the end of this they have a 2 year old car with a cost basis of about 10K. Sell them used for 15K and repeat. GM won't lose money on it.


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## Tequila Jake

The article says they may expand the model selection ... I would be really interested if it included the Traverse to qualify for Lyft Plus.


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## MattyMikey

Agreed. The dumbest thing is to have an SUV unless there was some value for driver and Lyft like the Lyft Plus. My only thinking is where it is being launched due to weather. So maybe when they get more West Coast it will be something more gas friendly or Hybrid. The new Chevy Volt would be nice.


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## Imchasinyou

Seems to me as if this is a ploy to actually make money. "Going live first in Chicago with 500 vehicles". Thats potentially 500 more Lyft drivers now fighting for rides. I dont know about the Chicago market but that seems like an awful lot of additional drivers on the road. For all 500 drivers to meet their minimum a week for the free vehicle, they have to collectively provide 32500 rides PER WEEK. Is that possible in Chicago? Lets say this dont work out for at least half, now you have to pay $99 a week plus mileage, so thats about $24750 a WEEK and $99000 a MONTH in revenue for Lyft and GM and a net loss of $396 plus mileage for the user. Thas more than a typical vehicle loan and you will never own anything. If the program last a year and only half make it to the free vehicle per week, that is putting $1,188,000 in some ones pocket. Now, I understand my math may not reflect actual numbers but its the best I could do given the scenario and is just for comparison.
Im all for companies making money but this just does not seem very appealing to me.


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## Nick Starr

Too bad it would be impossible to do 65 rides in Seattle on Lyft in a month...let along week.


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## Chicago-uber

Nick Starr said:


> Too bad it would be impossible to do 65 rides in Seattle on Lyft in a month...let along week.


Definitely it will be a challenge to do 65 rides in chicago. You need to live in your car for 6 days.


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## Lag Monkey

65 rides is doable but even the $99 a week if you don't get to 65 Is still a much better deal then uber. GM wants people using there cars to build out the transport network of the future. Eventually Lyft wants everyone renting GM cars to drive around and then robo cars will replace us on the network we built. Lyft wants this to be the beginning of a future where people don't own cars and just use an app to get around. Lyft even wants drivers to not own cars and just use GM cars. GM basically owns Lyft and its using them as a way to establish itself in what will be the future of transportation. GM is willing to subsidize the rides with Lyfts help to build out that network with driver in the cars 1st then wait for robo cars to come and finally cash in


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## USArmy31B30

It's a PYRAMID SCHEME 2.0!!! LMAO


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## MiddleClassedOut

It's only feasible if they stop with the guarantees. Guarantees are too easy for people to pass up, even though you have to hustle a lot just to get one ride an hour.


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## BostonBarry

Renters will be ineligible for PDB and Guarantees.


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## Contuber

39 hours online last week, 50-something trips. 65 is achievable, but it's a slavery. Without guarantees and PDB, it doesn't make any sense, regular fares are too low.


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## BostonBarry

Markets vary. I do 75 in about 35 hours, that's with commuting 30 minutes with the app on.


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## Contuber

Sure, markets vary. I didn't get guarantee offer this week, so I don't drive for Lyft now.


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## MiddleClassedOut

Well, this deal makes little sense then. In a world with less competition from other Lyft drivers chasing guarantees, it might make some sense but you can easily make much more than the cost of the rental driving your own car 30+ hours and getting PBR and guarantees. Plus you still have to pay for gas right? And having to maintain a 90% acceptance rating with no guarantees and no PDB is ridiculous. To be profitable, you'll have to cherry pick, especially at peak times.


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## BostonBarry

There's always that argument. I don't cherry pick. I don't care about Guarantees. I do very well. The program is a good deal for people who may not have the credit or income history to qualify for a loan.


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## Manotas

I would gladly give my little Prius a break and ride Lyft only for a couple of weeks, here in Miami it shouldn't be a problem coming up with the required rides


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## MattyMikey

Also after reading it not only would you not get power bonus or guarantees, but it seems any personal miles are not unlimited miles and charged 20 cents each. That hurts! So when app not on, paying per mile even if you meet the criteria for unlimited mileage. This deal is not that great anymore after seeing these details.


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## BostonBarry

How many personal miles would you expect to log? Average car rental is $50/day. You'd have to drive 250 miles in the day to make it a bad deal. And that is before considering insurance is included, which is very pricey on rentals.


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## MattyMikey

BostonBarry said:


> How many personal miles would you expect to log? Average car rental is $50/day. You'd have to drive 250 miles in the day to make it a bad deal. And that is before considering insurance is included, which is very pricey on rentals.


Well I'm referring to losing the power bonus more so. If you make $1000 week in fares you are paying $200 for the car. Now renting it for $99 week would not be bad if they let you keep the bonus.


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## KekeLo

Disgusted Driver said:


> It's actually hard to say if this is a good thing or not. The benefits are obvious, a free car to drive around in??? Um, sure. But what if you aren't making the trips, $100 a week if you miss the 75, not so great. So everyone runs out to do this and then we have oversupply, hard to get your rides and you end up taking marginal crap 15 minutes away because you need the numbers, ... Why only 1-8 weeks?
> 
> I hope it works out, be interesting to see.


BINGO!!!


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## tohunt4me

UberPartnerDennis said:


> This right here is a great deal....for those who drive full time its a winner...you get a free car for up to 8 weeks...are able to keep a higher percentage of your earnings (not have to pay insurance and maintenance) and its a vehicle that you qualify for the PDB in....Lyft just changed the game and upped the ante against screwber...well done Lyft


Great idea.

What happens after 8 weeks ?


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## tohunt4me

MattyMikey said:


> This is interesting. Lyft offering rental cars and they will be free if 65 plus rides a week. Includes all insurance and maintenance. Wow more incentive to drive Lyft only. Free use of vehicle and Power Bonus.
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/14/lyft-gm-express-drive/
> 
> Two months after General Motors announced a $500 million investment in transportation startup Lyft to work on autonomous cars, the pair are launching their first service together. No, it's not a self-driving car fleet (yet); it's a short-term rental program called Express Drive: GM will provide all-in rental cars to Lyft drivers, who will pay between $99/week plus mileage and nothing at all, depending on how many Lyft rides they provide using the vehicles.
> 
> Going live first in Chicago with 500 vehicles, all of a single model - the Chevy Equinox- Express Drive will then roll out to three more cities - Boston, Washington, DC and Baltimore - before expanding elsewhere (and potentially to other car models).
> 
> Lyft and GM believe that Express Drive will help the pair lay the infrastructure for fleets of self-driving cars down the road. But one of the more immediate aims of Express Drive is simply to put more Lyft vehicles on the streets today.
> 
> In a press call with journalists on Monday, Lyft co-founder John Zimmer said that in the four cities where Lyft and GM are launching Express Drive first, 150,000 people that have signed up to drive for Lyft could not do it because they did not have suitable cars. In Chicago alone, there have been 60,000 applicants, he noted.
> 
> "We've now made car ownership optional on both sides of the market," Zimmer said, referring to drivers and passengers. "Now you don't need to own a vehicle to make money on the platform, or to give rides to passengers."
> 
> Lyft has launched past initiatives like Express Pay to sweeten the deal for drivers to choose Lyft over working for rivals like Uber. Express Drive is also constructed to incentivise drivers to take more Lyft rides.
> 
> Those who use the Express Drive car for less than 40 rides per week pay $99/week plus 20 cents per mile. Those who use the car for between 40 and 64 rides per week pay $99/week flat. And those who use the car for 65 or more rides per week pay nothing at all. And while drivers pay for gas, all other services including insurance are thrown into the single price, regardless of whether you are 'on call' with a passenger or driving the car for personal use, Lyft tells me. Cars can be rented for between one and eight weeks.
> 
> Lyft and GM are not disclosing the specifics of their financial terms for Express Drive but see it as a way of growing new revenue streams in their respective businesses. "We are still assessing the size of the program, but John and I are both hoping for solid financial results," said Julia Steyn, GM's VP of urban mobility.
> 
> Autonomous cars have been touted as a chief motivation behind GM's strategic investment in Lyft - and clearly it is a big priority with GM, which just last week acquired driverless car startup Cruise. But it will be years before these vehicles are widely in use. So the connection between this concept and today's rental news was a bit more tenuous.
> 
> Asked how the two were related, Steyn at GM said that Express Drive would help lay the groundwork for future vehicles.
> 
> "This is going to build structure for autonomous vehicles," Steyn said. "To create the infrastructure in many cities is very important, starting with ride sharing with Lyft&#8230; We are looking at a different future going forward. Vehicles will&#8230; need to be managed. This is about creating better assessment and vehicles on demand."
> 
> Indeed, if self-driving cars in their early days turn out to be cost prohibitive or impractical for the average consumer, you can imagine how a company like GM might consider ways of deploying fleets of them for specific use cases&#8230; like transportation services.
> 
> GM said it would implement some of the services around Express Drive by way of Maven, its new business unit that includes all the company's work on car ownership models of the future.
> 
> Express Drive services will include access to OnStar - GM's in-vehicle security, diagnostics, turn-by-turn navigation and calling system - along with maintenance and warranty servicing, and insurance.
> 
> This is not the first time that Lyft has offered a short-term leasing program to grow the number of drivers in its fleet. In October last year, it announced a rental deal with Hertz. But that program, which is now live in Las Vegas and Denver, seems to be more expensive - respectively starting at $119 and $139 per week - and it's also without the other perks that GM and Lyft are throwing into the deal.
> 
> Nor is Lyft the only on-demand transport service that has looked to rental and leasing programs to boost its fleet of vehicles on the road. Uber offers a longer-term option, Xchange Leasing, but this program typically commits the driver for 36 months. Uber has alsopartnered with Enterprise for short-term rentals.
> 
> Others further afield, like Lyft's network partner from India, Ola, also have built out rental programs to equip drivers with better cars. And there are other companies like HyreCar that exist solely to rent vehicles to drivers on these services.


How many rides a week for a Buick Encore with leather ?


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## tohunt4me

MattyMikey said:


> It is 65 trips not 75 so very doable. But if not and you have to pay it, you don't have to pay any insurance or maintenance costs. Better than buying or leasing a car. 8 weeks is probably per contract and then turn in to get another vehicle. Laws regarding insurance and car rental vs financing. Plus they need the car back to do the maintenance upkeep.


G.M. has a bunch of surplus Equinox to unload that not even the rental companies want.


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## SafeT

The good news... free cars if you get the minimum rides... The bad news... so many cars flooded in your market that you will never qualify for the free car deal. Suckers!


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## RamzFanz

Muki said:


> I really would like to know though how this is helping GM.


GM invested $500M in lyft, is dropping a billion on SDCs, and they will be running a SDC fleet together soon. The advantage, in my eyes, is to take market share now at cost or even a loss so when they launch they will be a much bigger player. Nothing is more important to auto manufacturers at this point than to be a part of the TNC business with SDCs as early as possible.



MiddleClassedOut said:


> Well, this deal makes little sense then.


Not if they are going after non-car owners or owners whose cars don't qualify.


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## azndriver87

pro: free car if you dedicate full time (60 hours/week)
con: you can only chose a suv, its around 22mpg for a lyft/lyft line ride.... those gas $$ will kill you


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## BostonBarry

MattyMikey said:


> Well I'm referring to losing the power bonus more so. If you make $1000 week in fares you are paying $200 for the car. Now renting it for $99 week would not be bad if they let you keep the bonus.


Yes, it would suck to lose PDB. But it would still be a savings when you consider you're not responsible for maintenance, repair, and depreciation. My profit margin was about 72% last year. Losing PDB and paying for gas would leave me at around 75%, so it is close. But if anyone has a newer car that depreciates quickly, the savings would be larger. And $99 is the Lyft rental rate. An economy weekly rental from Enterprise starts at $200/week and an SUV starts at $320 without insurance.


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## BostonBarry

azndriver87 said:


> pro: free car if you dedicate full time (60 hours/week)
> con: you can only chose a suv, its around 22mpg for a lyft/lyft line ride.... those gas $$ will kill you


Gas is a very small contributor to my expenses and I'm in a minivan that averages 18mpg. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a hybrid minivan, but the additional fuel cost is far outweighed by the comfort of the larger car and in my case the ability to get Plus rides.


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## Tequila Jake

I think one of the big advantages to Lyft is to lock out drivers running both Uber and Lyft at the same time. Here in Phoenix I think it would be difficult to hit 65 Lyft rides if you have the Uber app on.

Also, one of the screen shots someone posted shows there's a 9% "tax" if you have less than 50% of your miles in Lyft driver mode. I wonder if that 9% applies not just to the $99 but also to the 20 cents per non-Lyft mile.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the insurance excludes TNC coverage for anyone but Lyft.

Personally, it's something I will carefully consider when the program comes to Phoenix.


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## Ziggy

MattyMikey said:


> Can't be a taxi because they don't do maintenance on them. They're always trashy vehicles.


All (most) taxis have maintenance on them to stay in compliance with city or state regulations ... albeit, it might not be the same loving attention your private car gets.


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## Disgusted Driver

MattyMikey said:


> Well I'm referring to losing the power bonus more so. If you make $1000 week in fares you are paying $200 for the car. Now renting it for $99 week would not be bad if they let you keep the bonus.


I'm with you, so you are really "paying $200 a week for the car which isn't so bad considering insurance and maintenance BUT, don't make your numbers and it starts to get expensive. So this becomes a more structured job, you have to work x hours, have to do late night , .... to ensure that you get the 65 rides. 90% acceptance, no more than 2 rides same person, keeps you on a tight leash and off Uber even when it's surging.


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## USArmy31B30

BostonBarry said:


> Yes, it would suck to lose PDB. But it would still be a savings when you consider you're not responsible for maintenance, repair, and depreciation. My profit margin was about 72% last year. Losing PDB and paying for gas would leave me at around 75%, so it is close. But if anyone has a newer car that depreciates quickly, the savings would be larger. And $99 is the Lyft rental rate. An economy weekly rental from Enterprise starts at $200/week and an SUV starts at $320 without insurance.


This is a GOOD option for people with no vehicle and no FULL time job in a certain market. Here in Vegas where we are too saturated, it is still possible to hit 65 rides in a week if the driver do 12-14 hours on SLOW days or even more. He shouldn't have any issues picking up 13 trips or more on Thurs,Fri and Sat on a 12-14 hour shift.

Now, the $99 is cheap, but the PLUS .20 a mile is a different story. I can do 125 miles in a 6 hour shift here in vegas without even trying to move around as much to find pax and most of our rides are within an 8 mile radius and 70% of our rides are within 2 miles. But let's say in an 8 hour shift the vehicle travels 150 miles X 5 6 or 7 days, 750-1,050 miles a week X .20 adds up real fast!

Like I stated, it could work for certain people, on certain market, but like someone stated above my post, be very careful about making a decision because you could end up losing a lot of money, specially when there's no layout of insurance and liability coverage on this program yet.


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## SafeT

U-Lyft ... these two companies are twins. Lyft and Uber both want a car on every corner. This is just more of the race to the bottom.

The only ones who make money under U-Lyft model of flooding cars is the U-Lyft twins. No matter how many cars they flood into the market, the cars always end up super clustered in the few areas where the action is because people just have little to no need for these services outside the major city centers. These companies dream of having cars sitting on every corner, even out in the rural boonies. But it's just not realistic.


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## Reversoul

Ball's in your court uber....


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## Adieu

MattyMikey said:


> Exactly. And I like the fact that insurance in all periods is covered, including personal. Plus if you did the amount of rides to get vehicle free that would mean you would get the Power Bonus and not pay any commission. That value savings would be equal to over $1,000 a month for a full time driver potentially. This would be enough to take drivers away from Uber completely.


Power Driver 20% does NOT fully refund commission.... Not to old 20%ers, and certainly not to new 25%ers.

Basic maths, people: +20% = 1.2x

75 * 1.2 = 90 ... 90% to driver, 10% commission
80 * 1.2 = 96 ... 96% to driver, 4% commission

Power driver 10%:
75 * 1.1 = 82.5 ... 82.5% to driver, 17.5% commission
80 * 1.1 = 88... 88% to driver, 12% commission

Also note how the "5%" difference in rates (actually 1.25x higher commission would be a more precise description) essentially puts the oldtimers closer to 1 perpetual rank of power driver higher than newer recruits...


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## Adieu

Also, Equinox is a hulking FWD piece of crap, a bit of a gas guzzler, comes complete with a CHINESE engine in base trim, and isn't even assembled in the USA

..not cool, Lyft. How bout a Volt or something. Or at least a Cruze Diesel.


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## driveLA

USArmy31B30 said:


> It's a PYRAMID SCHEME 2.0!!! LMAO


This is exactly what I thought

When they lower rates to 0.10/mile and increase their cut its back to square one

Just like people who financed cars and had no problem paying the car note until they slashed the rates by 80%


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## BostonBarry

Adieu said:


> Power Driver 20% does NOT fully refund commission.... Not to old 20%ers, and certainly not to new 25%ers.
> 
> Basic maths, people: +20% = 1.2x
> 
> 75 * 1.2 = 90 ... 90% to driver, 10% commission
> 80 * 1.2 = 96 ... 96% to driver, 4% commission
> 
> Power driver 10%:
> 75 * 1.1 = 82.5 ... 82.5% to driver, 17.5% commission
> 80 * 1.1 = 88... 88% to driver, 12% commission
> 
> Also note how the "5%" difference in rates (actually 1.25x higher commission would be a more precise description) essentially puts the oldtimers closer to 1 perpetual rank of power driver higher than newer recruits...


Incorrect. Check my summary. $165.20 in commission, $165.20 in PDB. $165.20 is exactly 20% of my fares, $826.


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## saucy05

Imchasinyou said:


> Seems to me as if this is a ploy to actually make money. "Going live first in Chicago with 500 vehicles". Thats potentially 500 more Lyft drivers now fighting for rides. I dont know about the Chicago market but that seems like an awful lot of additional drivers on the road. For all 500 drivers to meet their minimum a week for the free vehicle, they have to collectively provide 32500 rides PER WEEK. Is that possible in Chicago? Lets say this dont work out for at least half, now you have to pay $99 a week plus mileage, so thats about $24750 a WEEK and $99000 a MONTH in revenue for Lyft and GM and a net loss of $396 plus mileage for the user. Thas more than a typical vehicle loan and you will never own anything. If the program last a year and only half make it to the free vehicle per week, that is putting $1,188,000 in some ones pocket. Now, I understand my math may not reflect actual numbers but its the best I could do given the scenario and is just for comparison.
> Im all for companies making money but this just does not seem very appealing to me.


The program is meant for people who are going to fully dedicate themselves to LYFT. So even if you managed to miss the minimum ride a week, your net would be better off than most drivers out there.

Show me a company who would let me rent a car with livery insurance for only $99 a week?

The only downside I see in this is the mileage fee and lack of car options, without that I would definitely sign up.


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## Imchasinyou

saucy05 said:


> The program is meant for people who are going to fully dedicate themselves to LYFT. So even if you managed to miss the minimum ride a week, your net would be better off than most drivers out there.
> 
> Show me a company who would let me rent a car with livery insurance for only $99 a week?
> 
> The only downside I see in this is the mileage fee and lack of car options, without that I would definitely sign up.


I totally understand your POV and can appreciate that but I think the vast majority will not be able to commit themselves and will more than likely miss that break over point.


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## osii

I tried to sign up, it wouldn't let me. I think it's only available to people without eligible cars already on the platform. Otherwise, I'm all over this.


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## Optimus Uber

Do you get to keep any of the fares from the first 65 rides a week or does it all go to GM and you start keeping fares at the 66th ride?


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## BaitNSwitch

osii said:


> I tried to sign up, it wouldn't let me. I think it's only available to people without eligible cars already on the platform. Otherwise, I'm all over this.


It's not.I was able to sign up for it. And I already have a car on their platform.


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## MattyMikey

Optimus Uber said:


> Do you get to keep any of the fares from the first 65 rides a week or does it all go to GM and you start keeping fares at the 66th ride?


They don't keep any of the fares. You just have to pay rental, tax, and mileage. If you meet so many rides you get free mileage (while app is online) and only pay for rental and taxes. If you get 65 rides a week, you just pay for taxes and personal mileage (when app is not on).

You do not get the Power Driver Bonus if you do this program. So you could lose that 20 percent. Also can't get hourly bonuses.

So definitely a thought.


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## Optimus Uber

MattyMikey said:


> They don't keep any of the fares. You just have to pay rental, tax, and mileage. If you meet so many rides you get free mileage (while app is online) and only pay for rental and taxes. If you get 65 rides a week, you just pay for taxes and personal mileage (when app is not on).
> 
> You do not get the Power Driver Bonus if you do this program. So you could lose that 20 percent. Also can't get hourly bonuses.
> 
> So definitely a thought.


What's the rental price?


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## MattyMikey

Optimus Uber said:


> What's the rental price?


Starting at $99 week plus tax and mileage at 20 cents per. That's if you don't meet the two criteria options to reduce the mileage fee or the weekly rental. It does include all insurance which is definitely a benefit though.


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## osii

BaitNSwitch said:


> It's not.I was able to sign up for it. And I already have a car on their platform.


Can you provide a link, cause when I try to get it I can't find anything.


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## MattyMikey

http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/14/lyft-gm-express-drive/

Here you go. I just went to it to verify it still works and it is still up.


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## osii

so it's not in PHX yet.


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## osii

The minute this comes to PHX, I am all over this. The reason I don't use my new car was the $100 a week I was losing in depreciation. Even at the current Lyft PDB rates of $1.10/mi., it just wasn't worth using my new car. If I can net $600 for a 40 hour week this can work for me again.


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## osii

BTW, of you look at the numbers on that deal, it's essentially $430 a month to lease the car and if someone does the 65 rides in a market like chicago (which is super easy) that's at least $104 a week in T&S fees. So it really costs Lyft nothing. Just costs the driver $1.60 per ride.


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## DriverX

RightTurnClyde said:


> Hope it works out too!
> 
> With this deal as its stated, if you didn't hit 75 trips that's on the driver not the opportunity IMO. In my market most Lyft drivers spend most or even all their time chasing surge on uber. Sure would keep these drivers off uber most of the week wouldn't it? Lyft/Drivers/GM best win-win I've ever come across concerning rideshare.


They are off uber if they are surge driving. The full time uber grinders should be off it too and drive it higher.


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## DriverX

Muki said:


> Sounds really interesting. I wonder what GM is getting out of the deal? Is the value for them the promotion of people riding around in their new vehicles? I'll have to see the fine print. Sounds too good to be true. 65 rides in a week is easily attainable, even as a part-timer if you live in a fairly large city. And even if you didn't hit your mark and had to pay $99, that's still pretty good since using your own car would cost you more than that a week in depreciation and wear and tear. I'd gladly pay $99 a week for a car that included ride share insurance. And now you can drive weekend nights and not worry about someone puking in your personal vehicle. I stopped driving last year, but if this comes to my market, sign me up.
> 
> I'm guessing that there will be a limited amount of these GM cars available.


THey could be working with the dealerships, so maybe they will be renting the trade ins. The dealers always have excess inventory jamming up the lots so why not rent them.


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## DriverX

driveLA said:


> This is exactly what I thought
> 
> When they lower rates to 0.10/mile and increase their cut its back to square one
> 
> Just like people who financed cars and had no problem paying the car note until they slashed the rates by 80%


Yeah, for a week or 8. These cars are going to need major cleanings/tunes every time they get turned over. Drive it like you rented it!


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## DriverX

tohunt4me said:


> Great idea.
> 
> What happens after 8 weeks ?


If you haven't blown the engine in 8 weeks you're not driving hard enough and get deactivated.


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## BaitNSwitch

How about the weekly guarantees? not eligible in this car? that would suck.


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## BostonBarry

Correct, guarantees do not qualify. But without the bonuses, this can still be a good alternative. My car payment and insurance is $600/month. Add in maintenance, cleaning, repair...not impossible to at least break even on the loss of the bonuses.


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## AllenChicago

Chicago-uber said:


> Definitely it will be a challenge to do 65 rides in chicago. You need to live in your car for 6 days.


Yep.. I average 1 ride per hour in this region.


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## AllenChicago

BostonBarry said:


> Renters will be ineligible for PDB and Guarantees.


As with most things the business world, if it seems too good to be true..... And, just like you see in TV commercials, the large print giveth, and the small print taketh away. (i.e. "oh, by the way..HappyPill-Rx may cause brain damage and liver dysfunction!")


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## Contuber

I spent 2 hours online this morning, got 4 pings. One from a guy who's dirty like a bum and smells like a dog, I've seen him before. Another one was 25 min away. I had to ignore both. I made just 2 trips, had to drop off one of them at her friend's apt and end the trip, I didn't want to wait for her friend and drive them again.

Seems like I won't be driving these $15/h guarantees this week, isn't worth it.


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## MattyMikey

AllenChicago said:


> Yep.. I average 1 ride per hour in this region.


See, so it is possible. You work 65 hours a week and you don't have to pay rental for vehicle. Lol


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## AllenChicago

MattyMikey said:


> See, so it is possible. You work 65 hours a week and you don't have to pay rental for vehicle. Lol


But I'd have to visit an expensive mental therapist, which would more than offset the free Equinox!


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## MattyMikey

AllenChicago said:


> But I'd have to visit an expensive mental therapist, which would more than offset the free Equinox!


I would say that you can at least arrive to the therapist in style then I remembered it was an Equinox lol


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## UofMDriver

Lyft is doing way better than Uber. Rides are increasing, drivers are treated better. Power bonus for driving. Now free rental cars starting. Great job Lyft!!!


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## BaitNSwitch

Except no PDB or guarantees...So it's pretty much useless to me.

And to think my passengers _almost_ got a new car. Now they'll be stuck with the same crappy car I drive.

Woo lyft!


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## Swankybiscuits

Disgusted Driver said:


> It's actually hard to say if this is a good thing or not. The benefits are obvious, a free car to drive around in??? Um, sure. But what if you aren't making the trips, $100 a week if you miss the 75, not so great. So everyone runs out to do this and then we have oversupply, hard to get your rides and you end up taking marginal crap 15 minutes away because you need the numbers, ... Why only 1-8 weeks?
> 
> I hope it works out, be interesting to see.


This was my thoughts also. Right now margins are semi kept in line by only allowing us that actually have vehicles to drive. Joe shmos with no car and no jobs will be lining up from here to timbucktoo to drive. Forget that.... I think this is bad for the industry. Why not offer a bonus to existing drivers if the trips are met?!


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## AllenChicago

UofMDriver said:


> Lyft is doing way better than Uber. Rides are increasing, drivers are treated better. Power bonus for driving. Now free rental cars starting. *Great job Lyft*!!!


They (Lyft) need to work both sides of the fence though! All the bonuses and incentives are for DRIVERS. There's only a couple for passengers, and even those are often hard to understand, and vary market-to-market. Everywhere I went today, there was at least 1 Lyft driver within 1 mile of my location. I drove out to the edge of the Chicago region...where the Lyft Passenger app stops working, in an attempt to get just 1 PING today. Thankfully there were no Drivers out that way.. But no passengers either!

Great job Lyft? Well.. maybe Lyft's heart is in the right place, but they've got to put on their logistical and operational thinking caps, in order to make this job work the way drivers need it to work.


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## BostonBarry

Riders currently get $50 in free rides. There's marketing all over the place in several cities. There's gimmicks like the Bieber promotion. There's partnerships like starbucks and shell fuel rewards. They've partnered with foreign apps such as DiDi in China so that users there can order a Lyft when visiting the US. They're paying drivers $10-20 and giving existing riders free credit for referring people. I've worked events as an ambassador for them signing up hundreds of riders myself. I agree there should be more riders, but I think Lyft is doing all they can.


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## MattyMikey

BostonBarry said:


> Riders currently get $50 in free rides. There's marketing all over the place in several cities. There's gimmicks like the Bieber promotion. There's partnerships like starbucks and shell fuel rewards. They've partnered with foreign apps such as DiDi in China so that users there can order a Lyft when visiting the US. They're paying drivers $10-20 and giving existing riders free credit for referring people. I've worked events as an ambassador for them signing up hundreds of riders myself. I agree there should be more riders, but I think Lyft is doing all they can.


Out here in Seattle they were giving 50% off rides to passengers during the week and did it for like 2 months to build the user base. The driver got their full fare. Now they're doing the same promotion in the outskirts of Seattle area to build that. Great marketing ploy and it's been working. Lyft is much busier than it was 6 months ago as more and more know about it. But that type of marketing has to be very strategic as it is very expensive. They started doing this right after the large influx of cash from General Motors. So I could see this being done in other markets that they really find value in capturing. I believe a passenger told me they were doing in some parts of Southern California (mentioned Los Angeles specifically).


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## BigMomma80

Sorry if someone already covered this. But I am tired and don't feel like reading thru 6 pages.

Just reactived my application for Lyft from 2 years ago, went to the vehicle section, changed it from "Drive My Own Car" to "Rent a Car" and bam. I should be driving a new Equinox in about a week. Here is what I learned...

There is ALWAYS a $0.20 a mile charge for personal miles.

If you make 39 trips or less a week, you will be charged $99 plus $0.20 per mile for ALL miles driven, including your rides.

If you make 40-64 rides per week, you will be charged $99 plus $0.20 per mile for personal miles.

If you make 65+ trips per week, you will be charged $0.20 miles for your personal miles.

The vehicle is covered by Full Coverage Business Insurance at all times. Whether driving for personal reason, or for the app.

Here is the RENTAL TERMS & CONDITIONS:



> Applicable rental prices and fees are set forth in the Maven rental agreement. If you hit qualifying ride targets then you will receive a bonus from Lyft which will offset certain rental charges, subject to the following terms:
> 
> 
> You must maintain a weekly 90% acceptance rate to qualify for any bonus under this program.
> No more than 2 rides to the same passenger will count toward your ride total for determining whether you meet the applicable ride count criteria.
> Personal use miles (i.e., all miles driven while not in "driver mode" within the Lyft app) are not covered by this bonus program and will be charged at $0.20 per mile.
> By participating in this rental program you acknowledge and agree that you will not be eligible for the Lyft Power Driver Bonus or Average Hourly Guarantee promotions for the duration of your rental period.
> Applicable taxes will be added to all rental charges. In Chicago, if you drive less than 50% of miles in "driver mode" within the Lyft app an additional 9% lease tax will apply to all rental charges.
> This bonus program does not cover any applicable rental fees that may apply. See the Maven rental agreement for details on fees.
> All rental charges you incur under this program will be deducted from your Lyft driver earnings, if applicable. If such funds are insufficient to cover applicable rental charges, Lyft will charge your payment method on file.
> This bonus program is subject to Lyft's Terms of Service.
> 
> Rental details and conditions: Maven Rental Agreement.


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## Contuber

I'll pass. It's a full time commitment for pennies, and you still need to pay for gas. No guaranties, no PDB, 65 * $3 = $195 per week?


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## Disgusted Driver

The one silver lining I see in this is that you can probably use the car to run your own personal errands while you are in driver mode and not have to pay for that mileage. Losing the PDB and having to accept 90% (including the 15 minute away crap) is a killer though.


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## BaitNSwitch

All in all it's a bad deal. You're forced to give rides for 0.90 a mile...Do remember there's a thing such as opportunity cost. You kind of become an employee since you're burdened to give 65+ rides to make it profitable.


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## BigMomma80

BaitNSwitch said:


> All in all it's a bad deal. You're forced to give rides for 0.90 a mile...Do remember there's a thing such as opportunity cost. You kind of become an employee since you're burdened to give 65+ rides to make it profitable.


It is actually $1.15 a mile with Lyft. But I see everyone's point.

And doing the math, I will make out much better on the lease program with unlimited miles. And then I can still drive with Lyft as well as Uber using that car.


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## andaas

BigMomma80 said:


> It is actually $1.15 a mile with Lyft. But I see everyone's point.


Rates differ in each market. While you may get $1.15/mile, others may be getting $0.86 or $0.90/mile.


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## Contuber

It's $0.78/mile in Sacramento.

https://www.lyft.com/cities/sacramento


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## BaitNSwitch

I thought it was 0.90 in Chicago. Did it just recently go up or something?


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## BigMomma80

When I was on Lyft's website yesterday signing back up, it said $1.15. So maybe they are trying to get drivers to come to them by upping the pay?


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## BaitNSwitch

:'(


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## AllenChicago

Passengers here in the Chicago suburbs, who use both Lyft and Uber, tell me that the cost is about the same. They just pick whichever driver is closest at the moment.

This Free GM Car Lease offer is tempting, but I can't even comprehend doing 65 rides in a week. I'm in Driver Mode 5 hours a day on average, and only get 4 rides, at most.  Reaching this target is probably easy for the full-time drivers who work inside the Chicago city limits.

But I see here on the Lyft Website (https://www.lyft.com/expressdrive ) that the same passenger can only count for 2 of the 65 rides.


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## BaitNSwitch

65 divided by 7 is 9.28 rides a day. It's *doable* but you're sanity will suffer. and your sanitary too. Won't smell too good living in the car for 7 days


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## McGillicutty

BaitNSwitch said:


> 65 divided by 7 is 9.28 rides a day. It's *doable* but you're sanity will suffer. and your sanitary too. Won't smell too good living in the car for 7 days


If you don't care about trip length, how many trips can you get per hour in the busy part of Chicago?


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## BaitNSwitch

If you go into the city, like busy parts Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Wrigley, Downtown. You'll probably get 2 rides per hour during weekends. On weekdays, it fluctuates so rapidly..You could get 2 rides an hour. Then see nothing for 2.5 hours.

Meaning you have to be out there the entire day to average it all out. Like 10 hours in the car to get your daily quota of 10 to get the 65 per week. If one day you get lucky and get a bunch of rides in a few hours, guess you could call it a day early.


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## BaitNSwitch

But then again, what are you making if the trip lengths are short anyways? Minimum $3 rides, some $6 dollar rides. Besides, with the lyft rental program there's no option to get guarantees or the power driver bonus anyways, so you'll take the full hit of the 20%.

In summary, I think it's a good deal if the marketplace wasn't so saturated with drivers. As is, with hundreds of drivers = definitely a bad deal.


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## KMANDERSON

BostonBarry said:


> Renters will be ineligible for PDB and Guarantees.


So the trick is when you are ready to go home drive in drive mode and ignore every ping till you get home then turn off the app.


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## stuber

Muki said:


> Sounds really interesting. I wonder what GM is getting out of the deal? Is the value for them the promotion of people riding around in their new vehicles? I'll have to see the fine print. Sounds too good to be true. 65 rides in a week is easily attainable, even as a part-timer if you live in a fairly large city. And even if you didn't hit your mark and had to pay $99, that's still pretty good since using your own car would cost you more than that a week in depreciation and wear and tear. I'd gladly pay $99 a week for a car that included ride share insurance. And now you can drive weekend nights and not worry about someone puking in your personal vehicle. I stopped driving last year, but if this comes to my market, sign me up.
> 
> I'm guessing that there will be a limited amount of these GM cars available.


I'd guess the mapping and marketing data GM would glean from this would be very valuable. The return from the cars weekly lease may not be their primary concern. Plus, remember that the traditional car rental companies like Hertz and Avis are facing huge losses already due to Rideshare. These companies have always been GMs biggest customers. Nowadays, Hertz and other rental car companies are buying fewer cars. This is a new market for GM.


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## Greguzzi

BigMomma80 said:


> It is actually $1.15 a mile with Lyft. But I see everyone's point.
> 
> And doing the math, I will make out much better on the lease program with unlimited miles. And then I can still drive with Lyft as well as Uber using that car.


You overstate your earnings by 1/3, since you pay your lease with after-fees money.

Never forget to run the numbers accurately: $1.15/mile x 0.75 = 86.5 cents/mile.

If you do this lease you will be a slave to the company as long as you keep the car.


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