# NYC passes minimum pay wage for Uber and Lyft drivers



## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

New York City's Taxi and Limousine Commission voted today to establish a minimum wage for drivers working for companies like Uber, Lyft, Juno and Via. The city is the first in the US to set a minimum pay rate for app-based drivers. Going forward, the minimum pay will be set at $17.22 per hour after expenses, bringing it in line with the city's $15 per hour minimum wage for typical employees, which will take effect at the end of the year. The additional $2.22 takes into account contract drivers' payroll taxes and paid time off.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2018/12/04/nyc-minimum-pay-wage-uber-lyft-drivers/

https://drivingguild.org/news/


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

good for them! honestly I'm a little surprised to see NYC stepping up. I kind of assumed NYC would just take their bribes from boober instead of the local taxi operators and call it a day.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

heynow321 said:


> good for them! honestly I'm a little surprised to see NYC stepping up. I kind of assumed NYC would just take their bribes from boober instead of the local taxi operators and call it a day.


No that would be San Francisco.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

As I said in another thread, New York City Uber drivers are now employs. Uber is required to pay them $17.22 per hour, therefore a driver will be expected to take every single ping.
Expect massive deactivation.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAB6BAgLEAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Fsdm0Vd1t1odLOu5DQFfi

In addition, drivers must be paid MORE for rides where they take people out of the city and have to deadhead back.


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

Mista T said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAB6BAgLEAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Fsdm0Vd1t1odLOu5DQFfi
> 
> In addition, drivers must be paid MORE for rides where they take people out of the city and have to deadhead back.


Deadhead Pay that is something all markets need for sure.



heynow321 said:


> good for them! honestly I'm a little surprised to see NYC stepping up. I kind of assumed NYC would just take their bribes from boober instead of the local taxi operators and call it a day.


They worked with Taxis on this one I think.



TwoFiddyMile said:


> As I said in another thread, New York City Uber drivers are now employs. Uber is required to pay them $17.22 per hour, therefore a driver will be expected to take every single ping.
> Expect massive deactivation.


I hope they get time and a half after 8, medical, workman's comp, FICA Taxes paid as well then, otherwise they are still IC


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Great news indeed.


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

I would even say the Uber Pro Program is a lot more manipulative to saying that you are a employee then what went down in New York.

If you damn near don’t accept every ride you get down rated on tiers and once you hit partner don’t be surprised that eventual deactivation doesn’t occur.. that’s the real one trying to manipulate drivers as being more like employees.


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## Serge Que (May 29, 2015)

Thats great! And Miami rates have just been dropped below 70c a mile....


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

Serge Que said:


> Thats great! And Miami rates have just been dropped below 70c a mile....


Man $0.700 Chicago has been $0.600 for some time now...and gas in the city is still around $3 a gallon .. cheaper burbs but the heart of the storm $3


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> therefore a driver will be expected to take every single ping.
> Expect massive deactivation.


Nothing at all to indicate this will happen.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Nothing at all to indicate this will happen.


Lol. You think Uber will pay $17.22 to drivers who game and cherry pick?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Lol. You think Uber will pay $17.22 to drivers who game and cherry pick?


It states they are required to now.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

Sweet.


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## Castaneda7189 (Apr 14, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Lol. You think Uber will pay $17.22 to drivers who game and cherry pick?


Definitely have to agree with you. No longer considered IC they will be required to play by Uber's rules in terms of cancellations and acceptance rates. You can't be expected to get paid 17.22 an hour by just sitting there declining every ping. I think Uber will start deactivating many drivers and will limit the amount of drivers on the street. Allowing it to surge and only paying the new surge price model to the driver (+2, +5...etc) essentially offsetting the min wage. I see the pax getting screwed over in the end. I'm interested to see what happens next. Definitely 17.22 per driver per hour is no joke.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> It states they are required to now.


So you think they'll meet that requirement without creating conditions?
Are you trolling or really that cognitively challenged?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> So you think they'll meet that requirement without creating conditions?
> Are you trolling or really that cognitively challenged?


I didn't disagree that they will try to find a way to screw the driver, I was disagreeing with the massive deactivation portion.

And I think the cognitively challenged ones are the ones that flip out when someone simply disagrees with them.



Castaneda7189 said:


> Definitely have to agree with you. No longer considered IC


There is nothing in this rule that states that we are employees.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> I didn't disagree that they will try to find a way to screw the driver, I was disagreeing with the massive deactivation portion.
> 
> And I think the cognitively challenged ones are the ones that flip out when someone simply disagrees with them.
> 
> There is nothing in this rule that states that we are employees.


The word WAGE means employee.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> The word WAGE means employee.


True, but state where the rule specifically establishes that drivers are employees rather than just establishing a minimum wage.

Keep in mind that Seattle established a minimum wage for drivers while not establishing that drivers are employees. Granted, it's on hold while being challenged but that was what it does.


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## EmOinDallas (Oct 14, 2018)

Did anyone else notice *Uber's statement used the phrase "Full-time drivers*"? That seem's to be foretelling the direction they will take when fighting this legislation, as they most assuredly will. Guessing there will be stiffer requirements for drivers to get the $17.22 before expenses...hours worked, cancellation/acceptance rate thresholds, driver ratings, stiffer vehicle requirements, etc...

I'm curious to see how this unfolds and is a step in the right direction...could be something that happens across the U.S. eventually.


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

Will Uber be paying FICA on those wages?


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## Castaneda7189 (Apr 14, 2017)

You’re right, it doesn’t say we’re employees, it’s inferred however that with min wage drivers would be. I mean 2 bucks goes for paid time off, sounds like employees to me. I can see tons of deactivations or limitations to the amount of drivers on the road. They will probably implement driver hourly blocks, similar to amazon flex. Those that are able to profit the company stay and those that are costing the company will get the boot. Uber isn’t charity. It’s there to make money. Either by deactivating drivers or limiting them and allowing prices to increase while paying them a flat rate with the new surge model. So many possibilities. I don’t doubt the evil that is Uber.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

EmOinDallas said:


> Did anyone else notice *Uber's statement used the phrase "Full-time drivers*"? That seem's to be foretelling the direction they will take when fighting this legislation, as they most assuredly will. Guessing there will be stiffer requirements for drivers to get the $17.22 before expenses...hours worked, cancellation/acceptance rate thresholds, driver ratings, stiffer vehicle requirements, etc...
> 
> I'm curious to see how this unfolds and is a step in the right direction...could be something that happens across the U.S. eventually.


Good catch. Perhaps they will use the argument that drivers have to drive 40 hours a week to qualify. lol



Castaneda7189 said:


> You're right, it doesn't say we're employees, it's inferred however that with min wage drivers would be. I mean 2 bucks goes for paid time off, sounds like employees to me. I can see tons of deactivations or limitations to the amount of drivers on the road. They will probably implement driver hourly blocks, similar to amazon prime. Those that are able to profit the company stay and those that are costing the company will get the boot. Uber isn't charity. It's there to make money. Either by deactivating drivers or limiting them and allowing prices to increase while paying them a flat rate with the new surge model. So many possibilities. I don't doubt the evil that Uber.


they can't afford to cancel any drivers, I think the rule itself will need to be cleaned up to ensure it's applied correctly so drivers can't abuse it and Uber and Lyft can't screw drivers

we all need to see the details before we can see how it's going to affect us


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Good catch. Perhaps they will use the argument that drivers have to drive 40 hours a week to qualify. lol
> 
> they can't afford to cancel any drivers, I think the rule itself will need to be cleaned up to ensure it's applied correctly so drivers can't abuse it and Uber and Lyft can't screw drivers
> 
> we all need to see the details before we can see how it's going to affect us


NYC Uber partners are basically full time. They get TLC plates, license and insurance. Can't do that and just diddle around, it's about a $4000 investment just to get your car TLC compliant.


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

So Let's review- wage increase check, tip option check, deadhead pay check, min base fare dollar raise check Death benefit check, free eye care check. Free flu shots check. Free 24/7 telemedicine check

$2.22 an hour towards self employed taxes - check

Ride share designated rest areas in city with dedicated temp parking, restroom and charging station- check that also

Driver hearings prior deactivation check and also ability to opt out of pool- check if car classifies as luxury so can do x but no pool

Regulations- began checking that box and only just getting started there. Oh driver limit capped- check

Still working on ride share company can not get double $$ then driver. and max 80/20 all fares.

Doing It smart. Took care of minimums for them PRIOR to implementing further regulations so company can't decrease wage or benefits as result of regulations being placed.

For example: The $2.50 congestion fee U/L will pay beginning Jan 1st can't be pulled out of Driver pay,

And HUGE. Things like that cong fee can NOT result in Uber lowering ANY rates to riders fares so as to get lower fares for pax off drivers backs.
Bad how again?

Smart - Got a base without sacrificing regulations and without ANY promotional bonus $$$ counting against it. Oh and notice nothing even mentioned about surge. They did it as if nobody ever got surge .

Nobody saying when to work simply saying WHEN they work they must make $26.51 gross hourly and $17.22 hourly net

When most of us log on we do so to drive not sit, isn’t it nice to see compensation for that now not just pennies? So wouldn’t you rather have the seat warm in back then cool without a pax? Most games were played because of low earnings potential.

Best of all they got it all done without driver Pro program

So now if Uber does the Pro program in NY, it's on top of everything they have and already bargaining to see pax destination address.

So Pro still has to guarantee the $26.51 hourly gross even at very lowest partner level. Now, if Platinum your 6% raise is on top of negotiated base.

And let's say Uber rolls out Pro all markets except NY Big time discrimination issue of being singled out for being organized.

You watch. It'll be NY that protests and wins the issue of some NOT all drivers elite to see trip durations

So now if Uber does the Pro program in NY, it's on top of everything they have and already bargaining to see pax destination address.

So Pro still has to guarantee the $26.51 hourly gross even at very lowest partner level. Now, if Platinum your 6% raise is on top of negotiated base.

And let's say Uber rolls out Pro all markets except NY Big time discrimination issue of being singled out for being organized. 

You watch. It'll be NY that protests and wins the issue of some NOT all drivers elite to see trip durations


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> True, but state where the rule specifically establishes that drivers are employees rather than just establishing a minimum wage.
> 
> Keep in mind that Seattle established a minimum wage for drivers while not establishing that drivers are employees. Granted, it's on hold while being challenged but that was what it does.


uh no they did not. the $15/hr does not apply to boober drivers.


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

As far as Uber trying to get employee status that is one of the very last things they would want. They would be held to many more financial obligations then they currently are and that would hit them big time bottom line.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

heynow321 said:


> uh no they did not. the $15/hr does not apply to boober drivers.


it would apply by virtue of a union contract if they were allowed to organize which is tied up in the courts


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Pusher said:


> As far as Uber trying to get employee status that is one of the very last things they would want. They would be held to many more financial obligations then they currently are and that would hit them big time bottom line.


They are going to treat NYC drivers as employees without changing IC status.


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## #professoruber (Feb 19, 2018)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> They are going to treat NYC drivers as employees without changing IC status.


$0.2870 is the magic number when it comes to miles and minutes. It will be a matter of how Uber/Lyft will implement this.


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## Mad Medic (Aug 17, 2017)

Mista T said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAB6BAgLEAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Fsdm0Vd1t1odLOu5DQFfi
> 
> In addition, drivers must be paid MORE for rides where they take people out of the city and have to deadhead back.


Still trying to find the details on their deadhead compensation.


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> They are going to treat NYC drivers as employees without changing IC status.


They already do.... do you really fall for the "partner line"? Like I said the Pro program is the real one that treats drivers like employees. Look at how the tier system is set up. How you fall below acceptance or cancelation you get dropped down and incentives like trip durations and support taken from you.. I would even say the practice of throttling back rides is in many ways treating drivers like employees.. the old time out thing for turning down rides .

They have been doing it all along.

With pro they manipulate you in many regards to accept everything thrown at you.. sure you can pick and choose still, but after the three months those are all added up. For example I went through a period on Saturday where 9 rides thrown at me all fell under 7 min destination but all had over 5-8 min pick up times... all back to back... that area I know had longer rides, always does that time of day, but in keeping up with Pro they know drivers will accept them now even knowing you will make under $6 a ride many under cancelation fee even... that is treating a partner like an employee knowing that they will force you to take them or give you a time out... that happened today after turning down a ride in downtown Chicago with trip duration of 2 min... at rush hr... was given a time out for over 20 min in the Loop... so please don't tell me that they already don't play the game of treating us like employees.


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## Mad Medic (Aug 17, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> They are going to treat NYC drivers as employees without changing IC status.


With Uber Pro you already are treated as an employee. Uber Pro MANDATES your cancel rate MUST be under 4%

If you want to see trip duration, better be an Uber Platinum boy or girl.

If you're used to quest BUT not acting like an employee, oops I mean Driver Pro , you best drive enough to maintain your 600 points and best not cancel more than 4 trips for every hundred completed.

Oh and be a good employee, oops meant to say Pro again, and maintain your min rating of 4.85 and best except almost any ping, including Pool express or you lose your employee, oops, Pro benifits

Work Uber when you want and where you want in order to maintain your driver profile and receive 1.5% cash back on gas with your Uber debit card.

Work a little less where, when and who and Uber may reward you by still permitting the quest you've already had prior the program. They'll even kick your cash back to 3%

Work a lot more where and when Uber wants to lead you and you may get rewarded with a 3% raise on your base fare, a little more cash back on gas.

But if you really work regularly and take everything sent your way, don't cancel, accept about every ride, you might even be rewarded so much so that you'll get 6% raise on fares, see a trip duration, which should really be visible for all drivers AND you or a family member MAY receive FREE online tuition to ASU IF you work enough to achieve 1800 points, an under 4 cancel rate, very high acceptance rate, keep your rating very high AND if, repeat IF you can maintain that criteria every quarter, you may still be eligible to keep your Pro beneifits.

So, tell the driver trying to achieve 1800 points each quarter that he doesn't have to work nights and weekends during 3 point ride hours and if less than 600 rides per month of 1 ride point hours that his kid will no longer be able to remain an ASU online student. Tell him or her they'll still receive an extra 6% of Driver payment and get the same percentage cash back on gas if for some reason couldn't drive for 10 days straight due to sickness or 10 day trip spending time with family.

Nope- that guy will say he needs to go to work flu or no flu.

Also, if you drive for surge lately, how can you truly say you are not more of an employee than that of an IC?

IF you want to get a single surge ride as a result of no surge manipulation, just fortunate enough to be in a surged area- you MUST accept and not cancel the very next ride dispatched to you in order to make $2 or $3 of a surge.

Wait !! There's no rule that says I have to take a surged ride. I could be an IC and pass on that ride and take the next one I'm wiling to drive OR I can be more of an employee and take what Uber says I must take, if of course I desire a piece of surge Uber is charging riders regardless of which driver takes them.

More of an employee than an IC already. Give New York some props for at least getting themselves a better deal.

Uber will always have a need for very part time or side hustle drivers BUT for the many others that happen to drive 35 plus hours a week every week, at least their situation improves.

Also BTW- Even the part time, 1 day per month drivers will benefit by the NY changes BECAUSE there isn't a pay per hour. Instead, base rate increases on base, time, miles have been factored into ALL fares, therefore increasing per fare compensation for everyone, compiled with data factored in so that based upon amt of rides per hour, a minimum threshold has been established to guarantee certain $$$ per hour, separate of any quest, boost, surge or consecutive trip bonuses.

Think about an IC plumber or carpenter. They can pick and choose which jobs to take or not take. They also set their own price structure. They do this for a variety of reasons such as their time is worth a certain amount, not working for free or for too little, not working for too much, otherwise won't continue to work much longer before going out of business .

But I guarantee they set their price structures fully aware of what a union plumber or union carpenter's scale pay is currently. They may be IC but guaranteed they price quote knowing scale.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Ironic, isn't it? No matter how many times governmental involvement in business results in the exact opposite of the intent, some idiots persist in believing the approach will work if we but try it one more time. 

The Uber model succeeds so wildly precisely because the existing taxi model failed. 

Ignored in all this is the customer. Chase off the customer and you fail. Remember, customers got by just fine without Uber. They can do so again.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> No matter how many times governmental involvement in business results in the exact opposite of the intent, some idiots persist in believing the approach will


It was a horrible idea when government got involved in food service and required workers to wash their hands after using the bathroom, wasn't it?

It was a dumb idea when the FDA (a government entity) insisted on childproof caps on medication, right? All that unnecessary regulation leading to extra expense.

What a stupid idea school zone speed limits are! Just another example of government sticking their noses in when they are not needed, right Karen?

New York only had 6 driver suicides last year. Just six!!! Stupid politicians!


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

Mista T said:


> It was a horrible idea when government got involved in food service and required workers to wash their hands after using the bathroom, wasn't it?
> 
> It was a dumb idea when the FDA (a government entity) insisted on childproof caps on medication, right? All that unnecessary regulation leading to extra expense.
> 
> ...


Add in Car Seat Laws for infants

Drug tests for pilots, truck drivers, train engineers, bus drivers

Hour limits for all the above as well.


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## Pedro Paramo66 (Jan 17, 2018)

We suppose to be independent contractors working when we want and earning what we want
We dont need the state intervention in our issues
Lol


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## RDWRER (May 24, 2018)

I'll take $17.22 per hour _after_ expenses...

Let's, uh... let's... bring it here... to LA... maybe before Charlotte Surge... just saying...


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

They passed it, for only 1 reason... 8 suicides.... 
8*49 states=392
I pick up low rated passengers, stinkies, fats, uglies, old urine smelling grandfather, etcetera, but I will not be sacrificing myself for anybody. Will not be part of 392.
Can this spread to other places??? Maybe Illinois, during election time


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

Ugh. You guys are hopeless. The article states that state regulators are working with Uber to assess rates that are in line with a $17.22 wage. 

It could be done several ways but it looks like the method of choice is more likely to be some form of fare normalization or price fixing. 

We'll see what happens but I'm highly reluctant to speculate or trust a bunch of Uber drivers who have shown a profound inability to do maths


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Rushmanyyz said:


> Ugh. You guys are hopeless. The article states that state regulators are working with Uber to assess rates that are in line with a $17.22 wage.
> 
> It could be done several ways but it looks like the method of choice is more likely to be some form of fare normalization or price fixing.
> 
> We'll see what happens but I'm highly reluctant to speculate or trust a bunch of Uber drivers who have shown a profound inability to do maths


Or some of us have been running cab companies for decades.
I had a limo interview last year. They W2 so are obligated to pay minimum wage if the tips don't reach minimum.
There are many systems within IC driving.
NYC has passed legislation which states a full time TNC driver must make $17.22 after expenses. The onus is now on Uber/Lyft to pay them at least this amount, and 1099K them for it.

Stop assuming everyone here is beneath your level of achievement.


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## Rick N. (Mar 2, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> As I said in another thread, New York City Uber drivers are now employs. Uber is required to pay them $17.22 per hour, therefore a driver will be expected to take every single ping.
> Expect massive deactivation.


That just did what they have been doing in other states, lowering distance rates while increasing time rates, TLC sold us out


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Uber pool will be victorious due to new rates and each pax will have a 50lb service dog to fit in a Ford Focus lol


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## Rushmanyyz (Dec 1, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Or some of us have been running cab companies for decades.
> I had a limo interview last year. They W2 so are obligated to pay minimum wage if the tips don't reach minimum.
> There are many systems within IC driving.
> NYC has passed legislation which states a full time TNC driver must make $17.22 after expenses. The onus is now on Uber/Lyft to pay them at least this amount, and 1099K them for it.
> ...


There's a bunch of ways they can do this. I specifically chose not to speculate because I'm aware of other potential schemes that they could use, even though we aren't even given a hint (beyond the price restructuring that I already brought up).

Gig apps, like Uber, won't work under an hourly scheme. They could work on a commission basis but I actually don't think that's necessary. Uber's been running some interesting quest models and I think that some of them could well work to get the numbers where they need to be. You still might need a price rise in some market and there really needs to be a limit on the number of drivers they can hire but it's still doable.

The rideshare market, like all industries, needs regulation. Once you get something sensible there, it'll morph into whatever it needs to to survive.

In reality, I don't care one bit. It's just a pondering, for me. Seems you take it pretty personally though. Hope it meets your expectations, even though, you know, you think your years of running taxi companies gives you insight into how global markets work. Funny that.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Rushmanyyz said:


> There's a bunch of ways they can do this. I specifically chose not to speculate because I'm aware of other potential schemes that they could use, even though we aren't even given a hint (beyond the price restructuring that I already brought up).
> 
> Gig apps, like Uber, won't work under an hourly scheme. They could work on a commission basis but I actually don't think that's necessary. Uber's been running some interesting quest models and I think that some of them could well work to get the numbers where they need to be. You still might need a price rise in some market and there really needs to be a limit on the number of drivers they can hire but it's still doable.
> 
> ...


no I don't have full insight on a global market. I will say however that my cab and livery companies ran at a profit. None of the TNC companies do.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Uber replied to the New York TLC action with a pack of lies, a bucket of dupe and a load of spin.

"Uber supports efforts to ensure that....drivers in New York City....are able to make a living wage...."-_*LIE*_. If Uber truly supported that, the pay cuts, be they blatant or veiled never would have happened.

"...higher than necessary fare increases..."-Spin. It costs money to deliver a service. In the capitalist system under which this country operates, that cost is paid by the consumer. In addition, the consumer must pay an amount sufficient to allow the provider to turn a reasonable profit. Until UberX appeared, taxi driving was a middle class occupation. Uber has sought to reduce it to a poverty level occupation. Keep in mind that an UberX driver _*ain't nothin' but no unlicenced, illegal, under-insured, under-informed, ill-equipped, cut rate, discount tack-see driver*_". There is a reason why cab rates are what they are. It has little, if anything, to do with Big Taxi, which, in this market at least, does not apply. The rates are what they are because it costs money to equip keep up a vehicle, pay for licences, pay for supplies and turn a decent profit.

Consider this: I have rubber floors and vinyl covered seats in my taxi. This makes it easier to keep it clean: vacuum after dogs and people who sneak eat in the car; spray and wipe after people who sneak eat in the car, wipe up after people who track mud in the car; clean up after a ralpher. It costs money to have these things put into your car. Cab rates are sufficient to pay for this. TNC rates, _*AIN'T*_, which is why my TNC car is not so equipped.

"....missing an opportunity to...reduce congestion in Manhattan's central business district..."-DUPE. There have been studies that have proved that the proliferation of the TNCs has contributed to increased congestion. When the D.C. City Council imposed that new tax on the TNCs, Evans cited the increased congestion. There is at least one California study that asserts the same. My experience dictates increased congestion. This is one reason, out of a few, why New York capped the taxicabs in the 1930s.

"The TLC rules do not take into account incentives or bonuses......"-Spin. I will trade bonuses and incentives for reliable revenue streams. In addition, Uber Taxi was offering incentives and bonuses to cab drivers before the launch of UberX. Uber has no problem paying bonuses and incentives at any level. Finally, these bonuses and incentives on the X level amount to subsidising contractors. That is a textbook illustration of unfair competition.

"In addition, the rules miss an opportunity to.... deal with congestion"-It was DUPE when Uber asserted this the first time, why is it suddenly NOT dupe? Uber wants congestion alleviated? Good: it, VIA and Lyft can shut down to-morrow and not be replaced.

Finally, Uber wants to hold "bases" accountable for "keeping cars full with paying passengers".-Spin and DUPE combined. They want to hold the cab bases responsible for the cab drivers not hauling the customers that the TNCs took from them, due to the TNCs' being permitted to compete unfairly. This will allow them to drive the cab bases out of business and eliminate the competition: DUPE. Uber tries to spin it by asserting that it will reduce congestion, something for which it offers no proof.

Spin, DUPE and _*LIES*_: this is just what we have come to expect from Uber.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

I think this is going to be very interesting to see how they implement and how drivers attempt to game the system.

I would think that the following things will have to change:

Acceptance rate: They will have to set a high acceptance rate otherwise drivers will log on and not accept any calls.
They will have to limit when you can log in to avoid overcapacity. Otherwise all drivers will log in at slow times to get most money for least work.
Would they need to limit hours online to 40 to avoid paying overtime?
They will need to start looking out for abuses like waiting forever for pax to come instead of noshowing after 5 and not ending trip immediately upon arrival
Need to consider drivers hiding, i.e. trying to find a dead zone 
I'm sure there will be other issues and tweaking that needs to be done. I'll be curious to see how it works and hope for the best for our brothers and sisters in NYC.


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Or some of us have been running cab companies for decades.
> I had a limo interview last year. They W2 so are obligated to pay minimum wage if the tips don't reach minimum.
> There are many systems within IC driving.
> NYC has passed legislation which states a full time TNC driver must make $17.22 after expenses. The onus is now on Uber/Lyft to pay them at least this amount, and 1099K them for it.
> ...


LMFAO!


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## KevinH (Jul 13, 2014)

The increase in pay seems to be just a bit short of a 50% increase based on estimated expenses. But the TLC estimates that the increase can be handled by a fare increase of between 3% & 5%! I can't figure how that will work.
Here is the article I read:
https://www.pymnts.com/news/ridesharing/2018/new-york-city-ride-hailing-minimum-wage/


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

KevinH said:


> The increase in pay seems to be just a bit short of a 50% increase based on estimated expenses. But the TLC estimates that the increase can be handled by a fare increase of between 3% & 5%! I can't figure how that will work.
> Here is the article I read:
> https://www.pymnts.com/news/ridesharing/2018/new-york-city-ride-hailing-minimum-wage/


Well, they can stop lying for starters. From what I've read they don't give incentives for driving outside Manhattan. If it's busy and they start limiting the number of drivers at slow times, they will get better utilization rates, drivers might actually make more than the minimum and have fewer dead miles. Having an unlimited number of drivers was part of the problem.

If they allow surge to function properly, they wouldn't need incentives.

If they keep drivers busy with 2-3 trips per hour then there shouldn't be a need for a fare hike and guess what, instead of taking extra money from passengers as part of up front fees, they can go back to an honest game of 20-25% fee with balance to driver.


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## Irishjohn831 (Aug 11, 2017)

Uber insisted on putting a kabbillion drivers out on the street to fight for scraps because no matter what, they were paid their share. 

Now you have way too much supply, tons of drivers under earning because of the high supply vs. demand. 

Even pimps aren’t dumb enough to put more and more hoes out on the street so they earn more.


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

Irishjohn831 said:


> Even pimps aren't dumb enough to put more and more hoes out on the street so they earn more.


ROFFLMFAO!


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Irishjohn831 said:


> Uber insisted on putting a kabbillion drivers out on the street to fight for scraps because no matter what, they were paid their share.
> 
> Now you have way too much supply, tons of drivers under earning because of the high supply vs. demand.
> 
> Even pimps aren't dumb enough to put more and more hoes out on the street so they earn more.


But you are forgetting that more "workers" = higher number of tricks per "worker" or something like that.
Corollary to more drivers out there = less congestion on the roads. 
Based on the immutable law of "lower fares = higher earnings".


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

For all the evil things said about Uber - if you hate Uber, you'll really love it when the government steps in and "helps" out!

Really! How many times need we apply the government model to learn those good intentions pave a road to Hell? How many Venezuela's and Ethiopias need we destroy?

The very secret to the success of Uber, the very reason customers love us and hate taxis is the taxi/government model. "Serving the public good" is but cynical kant dispensed by self-appointed Caesars. 

Free markets work every time they're tried.

The irony is that Uber would not be possible without the mileage deduction. "Subsidy" would be a better term. That's what makes our pay tax free. 

$17 AFTER expenses? What expenses? Anyone care to lay out yesterday's balance sheet and explain exactly HOW they think income will be calculated?

Beware of unintended consequences. One such is sure to be a severe limiting of what cars are acceptable. As in: only 7-10 year old, low mileage, 35+ mpg cars need apply. Only female, non-smoking drivers 25-40 years old welcome. All in the name of lowering expenses (which will equal lower payouts for Uber). 

Plus, look for the taxman to deny us treatment as "companies." We'll have to pay tax on EVERY dollar we're paid. That pay guarantee will easily become the most expensive gift ever.

Final result? The end of ride share. Exactly what the taxi folks want.


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## BillC (Mar 5, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I think this is going to be very interesting to see how they implement and how drivers attempt to game the system.
> 
> I would think that the following things will have to change:
> 
> ...


1) Acceptance rate? This presumes employees will still be allowed to reject a ride for any reason. I fully expect Uber to remove the ability of employees to pick and choose rides. Can cabbies reject a ride?
2) As an employee, you'll be subject to set shift times like any other employee at any other company. You going online will be your timecard punch. If you're late or you log out before your shift ends? Expect an ass chewing from your manager/supervisor. Say good bye to working when you want, as little or as much as you want (up to 12 hours), and not having to ask for PTO if you can't or don't want to work.
3) I expect they'll limit everyone to 36 hours per week to get under Obamacare regs.
4) I wouldn't be surprised if they remove the driver's ability to cancel a trip as well. If the driver is making $17.22/hr no matter what? It doesn't affect him negatively if he has to sit and wait 10-15 minutes for the pax to show up. He's making money driving or sitting. If Uber implements a "cancel after X minutes for no-show" policy, I fully expect they'll implement it to protect them, not the driver. It may vary the no-show cancel time based on the fare of the trip. 3 mile trip? Cancel after 5 minutes. 30 mile trip with whatever surge may happen to be running at the time? More revenue for Uber, more leeway to the customer might be allowed.
5) If Uber removes the ability for a driver to reject a ride, this really wouldn't matter. If you have to take what Uber sends you, you would be stupid to leave the busy areas and get stuck driving 10-20 miles to pick up the pax you can no longer refuse.

If Uber implements employment instead of IC status nationwide, the day it hits Mpls is the last day I drive for them. Of course, you can bet SEIU is just licking their chops hoping they can convince the NYC TNC employees to unionize. Yet another thing that would instantly make me quit driving for them.


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## Irishjohn831 (Aug 11, 2017)

Disgusted Driver said:


> But you are forgetting that more "workers" = higher number of tricks per "worker" or something like that.
> Corollary to more drivers out there = less congestion on the roads.
> Based on the immutable law of "lower fares = higher earnings".


Sounds great until Uber's last pay restructure was finally reported in the news as a way to screw drivers, and an an analysis on just how little drivers make before the restructure.

Now it's ok, your not paying drivers enough.

Uber just kept increasing number of drivers on the street, even less money made as supply outweighs demand.

Now all those drivers they kept putting on the street should all get minimum wage, according to the tlc.

Had they capped drivers and maintained fair rates, they would have not made their greed so apparent and obvious.

Nothing better for a company looking to go public conducts business in a way that the schiestiest sweatshop runners would blush.


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## UBERPROcolorado (Jul 16, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> As I said in another thread, New York City Uber drivers are now employs. Uber is required to pay them $17.22 per hour, therefore a driver will be expected to take every single ping.
> Expect massive deactivation.


The key is that the minimum hourly figure is AFTER expenses!!! Gas...etc!!!

So taking every trip given would be okay.

I cant wait to watch this spread across the nation. Uber will either die or follow the rules.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> For all the evil things said about Uber - if you hate Uber, you'll really love it when the government steps in and "helps" out!
> 
> Really! How many times need we apply the government model to learn those good intentions pave a road to Hell? How many Venezuela's and Ethiopias need we destroy?
> 
> ...


I can't tell if you are an Uber employee pretending to be a driver, or if your rose colored glasses are so thick that you truly cannot see the rotten things that Uber does.

If you are a part timer and you don't really need the Uber income, I am happy for you.

Do you realize that there are about a MILLION people in the US alone that depend on Uber/Lyft for survival?

Could they get different jobs? Sure, but they wouldn't be much better. The better option is to fight for rights with the job they have.

Uber and Lyft are PREDATORY. History has proven that predatory companies and individuals will continue unless stopped by force.

Do you really think a lack of regulation is for the better?

Maybe you should go drive in Mumbai for a few weeks, I hear they are having a great time with Uber over there. Strikes, protests, occasional violence and marches... the goal? To force the government to intervene, since Uber and Ola have repeatedly broken promises and cut pay to drivers. Why don't you just go over there and tell those 60,000 drivers that they should give up the stupid idea of regulation and just go get another job if they don't like how things are...


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Where do they come up with this stuff?

"The average cost for a driver to license, register, and operate a 2017 Toyota Camry is at least $400 per week, adding up to over $20,000 per year."

http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/downloads/pdf/driver_income_rules_11_29_2018.pdf


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

Irishjohn831 said:


> Uber insisted on putting a kabbillion drivers out on the street to fight for scraps because no matter what, they were paid their share.
> 
> Now you have way too much supply, tons of drivers under earning because of the high supply vs. demand.
> 
> Even pimps aren't dumb enough to put more and more hoes out on the street so they earn more.


That last line should be the featured post of this thread



Karen Stein said:


> For all the evil things said about Uber - if you hate Uber, you'll really love it when the government steps in and "helps" out!
> 
> Really! How many times need we apply the government model to learn those good intentions pave a road to Hell? How many Venezuela's and Ethiopias need we destroy?
> 
> ...


Karen have you ever heard of owner operators in the trucking industry? They are considered companies, and yes they have to pay taxes and yes they still get deductions and yes they are regulated...

Trying to compare regulations to the socialism disaster that took place in Venezuela is even a stretch for you.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

Pusher said:


> the minimum pay will be set at $17.22 per hour after expenses


How are they calculating "expenses"?


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## Alan Tirado (Mar 1, 2018)

Pusher said:


> Man $0.700 Chicago has been $0.600 for some time now...and gas in the city is still around $3 a gallon .. cheaper burbs but the heart of the storm $3


And in SF gas is about 4 dollar and we still only get paid .68 a mile.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Karen Stein said:


> Final result? The end of ride share. Exactly what the taxi folks want.


.........and your complaint is_______________________________________________________?



BillC said:


> Can cabbies reject a ride?


You can not reject someone who hails you or approaches you on a street or taxi stand. You can reject trips that pop onto your screen. That is the substitute for your Right To Remain Silent that obtained in the days of voice dispatch (READ: REAL dispatch).


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Uber will implement 4.8 rating or higher.


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## burgerflipper (Jun 23, 2017)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> As I said in another thread, New York City Uber drivers are now employs. Uber is required to pay them $17.22 per hour, therefore a driver will be expected to take every single ping.
> Expect massive deactivation.


not really a min wage. city regulated uber rates to ensure the average driver is making min wage. city said "at current rates drivers are making 70% of the min wage, therefore ubet must raise its rates by 30%". no radical change in pay structure or classification.

source: i am a ny driver


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Mista T said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAB6BAgLEAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Fsdm0Vd1t1odLOu5DQFfi
> 
> In addition, drivers must be paid MORE for rides where they take people out of the city and have to deadhead back.


Even BETTER !



BurgerTiime said:


> Uber will implement 4.8 rating or higher.
> U


She will SHOW UP AT UBER CORPORATE !!!

Browning makes a Fine automatic 12 guage Shotgun by the way !

Extremely accurate at Great Distances !

( looks like shes holding a 57- 59 Belgiam Browning, A-5)


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## Norm22 (Feb 10, 2018)

Any NYC drivers that can attest to what thy'll be making? Min fare etc.?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Uber replied to the New York TLC action with a pack of lies, a bucket of dupe and a load of spin.
> 
> "Uber supports efforts to ensure that....drivers in New York City....are able to make a living wage...."-_*LIE*_. If Uber truly supported that, the pay cuts, be they blatant or veiled never would have happened.
> 
> ...


" Deliver A SERVICE "!?

" TECHNOLOGY COMPANY "!

" NO NEED TO TIP"!


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Even BETTER !
> 
> She will SHOW UP AT UBER CORPORATE !!!
> 
> ...


She looks like she would have more fun if she Could handle a BAR ?


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> .........and your complaint is_______________________________________________________?
> 
> You can not reject someone who hails you or approaches you on a street or taxi stand. You can reject trips that pop onto your screen. That is the substitute for your Right To Remain Silent that obtained in the days of voice dispatch (READ: REAL dispatch).


You forgot drunk disorderly pax. I've done it when they were right on the edge of violence. It's rare, I need the money.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

heynow321 said:


> good for them! honestly I'm a little surprised to see NYC stepping up. I kind of assumed NYC would just take their bribes from boober instead of the local taxi operators and call it a day.


I think the multiple suicides had something to do with this.


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

On a different note, we are seeing references that what Ny did as minimum wage and trying to compare to employee status. This is false.

What occurred was that the city regulated uber rates to ensure the average driver is making at least min wage. The city said "at current rates drivers are making 70% of the min wage, therefore uber must raise its rates by 30%". no radical change in pay structure or classification. 

So for those that are saying that now this is making the IC’s into employee’s it is an entirely false premise to go off of so we need to stop with that right now.

For some years on this board all you have read is complaint after complaint about rates and how Uber has gone about cutting the rates yet again to the driver all the while increasing the rates to the passenger. What has finally occurred is something that each and every one of the members on this board has been hoping for and that is someone finally holding these companies accountable and in check. 

Overall it is a minor victory in a larger process. There is much more that really needs to occur to actually legitimize this industry. Yes this industry be it a young one in a sense is going to be around regardless if the company brand is named Uber or not. 

The service that you the professional driver provides has been a difficult road up till now. To actually be recognized for your efforts, and to have people working for the betterment of those who go out on a daily basis putting in long hours, and dealing with all the situations on a daily basis that we do should be applauded.

Saftey is the next step though and really needs to be focused upon. Government and passengers will be on board coming from the drivers. Holding Uber and Lyft to their own rules regarding unaccompanied minors, car seat enforcement should and must be the next order of business. 

These two things when speaking with passengers are things that they find alarming. The media has had interest as well when it comes to the unaccompanied minor issue. For the drivers this puts us in a whole host of possible liability issues, the same can be said for taking a ride with a child under 8 yrs of age not secured in a car seat. 

You can only be the one that exemplifies professionalism when you conduct and execute your rides. But to finally break the stigma that drivers, be they Uber or Lyft, taxi or limo anything other than professional drivers starts with actions such as what the drivers of New York finally did. 

Far to long this industry has been treated as a door mat in many respects, and that culture was started at the very top with the companies themselves. The rating system for one is heavily scewed and entirely biased. How is it that a intoxicated passenger is allowed to rate a sober driver for one, how is it that passengers who can not afford a car or have lost their privlage to operate a car due to making a decision to drive drunk have the ability to rate a driver that is providing them affordable transportation with door to door service. In many of these cases the rating system on a whim of the passenger can get a driver deactivated for nothing more than a scam to get a free ride. There is no accountability of the passengers in these cases when this occurs and that is something that needs to be addressed as well.

The culture that has risen with how passengers (not all) treat those in this profession such as disrespect of our personal vehicles and disrespect of the professionals themselves that are providing this service has to change. 

Something that I have observed over the last couple days once the news broke about the gains that the drivers in New York achieved, is the fear of loosing ridership due to an increased fare to the passenger to offset the an increased rate to the professional driver. We once again go back to the very fact, that these platforms created a culture that has become a norm now for the public to expect a private personal cars to transport them from door to door, at rates that are less than Bus and light rail prices and in most cases less than taxi rates going back to the 1980’s. 

While doing so they have facilitated a culture that has allowed the public in many cases (not all) to throw off all societal norms once they enter into said vehicle. The fear of losing a portion of that ridership should not be something that drivers should worry about. In many of these cases the platforms through different services such as Uber pool and pool express as well as Lyft line, has made it so that passengers that by all rights financially should never have had the ability in the first place to expect to have personal private car service in the first place. I understand that could offend some, but it is entirely the truth. 

While we provide a similar service that crosses between cab, limo, and now bus at each step the platforms have taken steps not only to reduce compensation for your professionalism, but have added on additional expectations to the passengers. The latest being medical transport and transport highly focused on the elderly that all bring on additional liability to you. 

Again the only way that we are recognized as the professionals that we are is through measures that have taken place recently in New York. Saftey has to be a key focus and yes regulations have to be implemented and enforced, not just window dressing that these companies currently do. The culture as well has to change as well, and that can only occur by the drivers actually standing together to make it happen.. if there are casualties along the way such as loosing a segment of ridership or a segment of operators, maybe that’s what was needed to occur all along in the first place.


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> As I said in another thread, New York City Uber drivers are now employs. Uber is required to pay them $17.22 per hour, therefore a driver will be expected to take every single ping.
> Expect massive deactivation.


Given the current freeze on new drivers there of this happens it won't happen until after the freeze on new licenses are lifted.

I do agree with you though that when drivers become employees they will demand a lot more control over driver actions than they typically have been, but the caveat on that is the way the app is already currently set up they have an inordinate amount of control over drivers as it is. Employer level actually.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

KenLV said:


> How are they calculating "expenses"?


"For a typical non-WAVdriver, this results in gross earnings of $26.51 per hour and net income of $17.22 per hour after expenses."

They are assuming $9.29/hr in expenses.


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

https://uberpeople.net/attachments/press_release_12_04_18-1-pdf.279268/

This is a great breakdown of what took place, very detailed.

Also the sentence that states that pay is per trip and not per hour is key. It goes against all those who keep harping that this is going to turn drivers into employees.

It is formulated per trip basis and benefits all drivers, The deadhead formula for anytime taken OUT of city or long trips, deadhead basically same as taxi of meter and a half, using 50% as number . It Doesn't effect cherry picking one bit. Still can log on or off anytime or even continue drive surge only or combo surge / quest/consecutive trips


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## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

Mista T said:


> It was a horrible idea when government got involved in food service and required workers to wash their hands after using the bathroom, wasn't it?
> 
> It was a dumb idea when the FDA (a government entity) insisted on childproof caps on medication, right? All that unnecessary regulation leading to extra expense.
> 
> ...


Mista T...there is a difference between SAFETY and wages. The examples you gave were all a result of injury or deaths. 6 limo/cabbies committing suicide is a bad example.

Listen, I believe that UBER/LYFT are biding there time in NYC. They understand if they fight back the optics are going to be bad as it usually is when they open their mouths.

Their strategy now the way I see it is to make up the lost revenue in NYC with lower rates and surge modification in all other markets. Funny how UBER announced its change in mileage/time rates at the same time of the NYC decision. Yeah, UBER is claiming as they always do that it somehow is better for the driver. We all know it isn't.

I think they are going to do whatever it takes to placate NYC politicians and screw over the rest of the country to make up for it.


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## dryverjohn (Jun 3, 2018)

Ok, so I started a new gig that pays hourly while I am delivering and also pays for just sitting around. While not quite minimum wage when you are sitting at home watching TV, it is close. Once you start picking up packages they pay ramps up to $12.50 an hour and $.50 per mile, surpassing minimum wage. I prefer this method as an IC, I would do it full time. However, guess what. They limit you to 9 scheduled hours a week and let you waitlist as many hours as you want. I have been able to pickup 20+ hours a week and it's a great supplement to Uber/Lfyt. I can do them all at the same time. 

I say this because, I see Uber doing the same thing. Releasing a schedule based on demand, you have 40 hours scheduled you are a full time driver. Other blocks may become available, but they are not going to want to pay when they don't have ride requests. I expect a complete change in how Uber is going to create limits on who and when they can drive. Uber pro drivers etc. will get priority, acceptance rates and ratings will matter.


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## Codyboy1 (May 21, 2018)

Castaneda7189 said:


> Definitely have to agree with you. No longer considered IC they will be required to play by Uber's rules in terms of cancellations and acceptance rates. You can't be expected to get paid 17.22 an hour by just sitting there declining every ping. I think Uber will start deactivating many drivers and will limit the amount of drivers on the street. Allowing it to surge and only paying the new surge price model to the driver (+2, +5...etc) essentially offsetting the min wage. I see the pax getting screwed over in the end. I'm interested to see what happens next. Definitely 17.22 per driver per hour is no joke.


What do you mean the pax getting screwed in the end. They need to be paying more for their rides. They are paying a fraction of what taxi rates were decades ago, and as a dollar tip. The customer is always the source of revenue. About time the pax starts paying what the ride is worth


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## Castaneda7189 (Apr 14, 2017)

Codyboy1 said:


> What do you mean the pax getting screwed in the end. They need to be paying more for their rides. They are paying a fraction of what taxi rates were decades ago, and as a dollar tip. The customer is always the source of revenue. About time the pax starts paying what the ride is worth


I don't know man. I've seen some of the prices Uber customers pay and I can say that many are paying 1.80-2.00 per mile. As much as a taxi service would cost. That's what I mean. Uber usually takes 45% if not more of it. Just took a guy on a 12 mile ride lasted 18 min. He paid 24 bucks and I got $12. I even long hauled that one.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You forgot drunk disorderly pax. I've done it when they were right on the edge of violence. It's rare, I need the money.


You are required to transport "orderly" passengers. The Capital Of Your Nation does make exception for "has reasonable cause to fear for his safety", but that is a hard one to use. A driver once refused to take a passenger to a block where he had been robbed several weeks previously at the same time of night. The passenger filed a complaint. The then D.C. Taxicab Commission held a hearing. The Hearing Examiner would not allow that as an excuse. In fact, he told the driver that if he were afraid of the Public of Washington, D.C., he did not need that hack licence. He told the driver if he tried to use that excuse in front of him again under similar circumstances, he would be sat down for ninety days, minimum if not an outright revocation.

Passengers who are drunk or "engaged in a violation of the law" are by definition "disorderly". The thing about that, though, is if a passenger asked you to take him to a known open air drug market, you could not refuse him because you did not know that he was going to buy drugs. Yes, you did know it, but, your knowing it would not stand up in a legal proceeding.

Still, when you are hurting for business, you take more than a few customers that you would not want to take under normal circumstances.



Codyboy1 said:


> About time the pax starts paying what the ride is worth


In a capitalistic economy, which is supposed to be what obtains in the U.S. of A,, the customer pays the cost of doing business. In Uber's "Corporate State Socialist" economy, the driver bears much of that cost without adequate compensation.


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## BillC (Mar 5, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> ...You can not reject someone who hails you or approaches you on a street or taxi stand. You can reject trips that pop onto your screen. That is the substitute for your Right To Remain Silent that obtained in the days of voice dispatch (READ: REAL dispatch).


Thanks for your answer. I really didn't know. I've only taken a cab a few times in my life, and those were all for business trips almost 20 years ago where it made more sense than renting a car due to short distance or due to being in NYC.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

EmOinDallas said:


> Did anyone else notice *Uber's statement used the phrase "Full-time drivers*"? That seem's to be foretelling the direction they will take when fighting this legislation, as they most assuredly will. Guessing there will be stiffer requirements for drivers to get the $17.22 before expenses...hours worked, cancellation/acceptance rate thresholds, driver ratings, stiffer vehicle requirements, etc...
> 
> I'm curious to see how this unfolds and is a step in the right direction...could be something that happens across the U.S. eventually.


If it happens in the rest of the US, uber's valuation will crash thru the floor.


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

Mad Medic said on the Chicago thread

The official set of regulations that govern the passage of the bill.

Contains per trip (not hourly) pay formula of miles and time, just like always BUT still a per trip fare that just happens to use a 58% utilization factor in the compensation BECAUSE the data showed on average Uber drivers only compensated while with pax and only 58% of their online time is with a fare while 42% of their time is spent idle and not earning.

Data used 30 hours or more per week as the full time hours

Don't know why such negativity .
1st city in the US to secure some consistent livable earnings from ride share.

The $17.22 net is exactly the identical hourly as the Taxi drivers.

The $26.51 hourly gross is the income FLOOR yet many here see this as some type of employee status or income ceiling pay.

They have it in writing that their rates can never decrease simply because ride share company deems a new lower rate next year or next week. Uber/Lyft can no longer just send out a notification stating rates were changed.

Didn't we just get an unannounced rate change in Chicago recently???

We did. And some are doing better while others doing worse. Many, had to adapt to a new way navigating with different fare formula and change up their style so as not to earn less.

The data shows that this was well researched and provides sound rational, factual benchmarks.

When you digest the data, you have more knowledge to base your opinion on.

Some here are hollering about not wanting to be an employee. The data accurately reflects that IF Uber were to classify their almost 80 thousand drivers as employees, that Uber would be the largest employer in the State of New York.

The data points out that NY drIvers have 750 million dollars of inventory. The 750 million reflects the cost of theit cars but as the data also states "the cost before factoring in any financing of their vehicles"

I would encourage everyone to read the actual TLC bill attached before blindly presuming it as either a great or horrible thing.

Please, read the actual document and then you could certainly then have an informed overview and opinion.

By reading, you'll see the actual per trip formula with the 58% utilization factor based upon the compiled research that revealed on average, Uber drivers 58% with paid fare and 42% without any compensation.

This research will also show you the formula for deadhead miles, which surprisingly is the basic concept taxis implemented years ago, essentially , meter and a half

The data also points out why the $15 per hour became $17.22 per hour for ride share drivers to be equivalent to traditional work force min wage of $15.

You'll see, simply by reading the facts, that 7.85% ($1.32 per hour) is the cost each independent contractor must set aside to pay the employer portion of taxes. Otherwise , unlike traditional jobs in which the employer pays 50%, as self employed, the self employed pay approx 15% (we know that right?)

Then, since ICs do not receive any paid time off (PTO) from an employer, six percent (0.90per hr.) was added to take into full account that someone working a job at $15 per hour averages an additional VALUE of PTO of 90 cents per hour that never personally cost the employee that amount out of their own pocket.

So, if a traditional full time job had their employees work 40 hours a week every week for the entire year without any paid days off, you'd use 2080 hours for FLSA purposes.

Now, presume an employee, let's say averages two weeks (80 hrs) worth of paid time off for combination of sick days, holidays and vacation days throughout the year.

In this case, a $15 hr employee would have 80 fully paid hours of time off. Eighty would equate to $1,200.00 of pay received for hours never worked.

In other words, they don't get that $1,200 deducted from their pay because they get paid for 2080 hours even though they work only 2,000 hours annualy.

A ride share driver doesn't drive, doesn't get paid for the day. So, very nice that the TLC recognized that and factored it in their calculations.

So if your a driver that Never takes a shift off, great! You'd be guaranteed more than 30 k take home pay, after expenses.

Other full time jobs, a $15 hour employee getting paid as if working all 2080 hours. Wheras a ride share driver would lose money for every hour not worked.

It's a pretty good calculation the TLC thought of. Now of course if a driver blows through their pay each and every week, they'd make zero dollars for that week they were home sick .

So, that's where self employed persons simply have to recognize the responsibility to set aside a little money each and every week lies with themselves because being self employed requires that discipline

That calculation the TLC factored into the per trip fare formula comes out to a couple thousand dollars in the driver's pocket (2080hrs. X 0.90) that otherwise would have been a reduction of Driver income had a driver take 80 hours off for the year to be there for the family, take a sick day or go on vacation. Therefore, that couple thousand could be over a $4,000.00 swing of actual driver spend able money if driver had to miss 80 hours. Because not only would they not earn by not driving, they'd lose by not driving. This way, driver doesn't lose and if never a day off, actually gains.

Their is so much valuable information contained within the TLC rules document attached to this post. Inside, you'll also learn what percentage of drivers are fulltime/part time, which vehicle is used most (not Prius), what percentage of drivers on medicaid and/or food stamps, taxi rates, fare reduction prevention, and so much more, like how now Uber must be 100% transparent with fare breakdowns, showing amt for tolls, expenses, taxes, etc. They now must show what amount counts as an income, not an expense.

For example, the data compiled that the true cost of Driver expenses averages $400 per week.

Hope everyone takes the time to study the information contained within the rules guidelines.

Also- if you wish to digest as pay per mile instead of pay per hour, you'll discover it is a much better deal than ANY market region Uber/Lyft operates in. And you'll discover that Via didn't have to change what so ever because NY Via drivers already earn more than what the new rules require. So, if Via can do it, so can Uber/Lyft/Juno.

Bonus material - The TLC mandates more driver pay for "shared rides". They recognized that drivers performing rides such as pool were getting shafted big time. Glad to see improvement in that area.

↑
Is the tip included in that hourly guaranteed rate?
Don't think so because doesn't matter if you give 1 ride a month or 3 rides per hour. The fare formula is the same 100% of the time for 100% of drivers.

It's not very complicated. They're simply using formula of $$ per mile, $$ Per minute and then factor in a 58% utilization factor. If WAV it's a utilization factor of 70%, based upon Uber driver car with pax 58% of time but WAV driver has pax 70% of the time

https://uberpeople.net/attachments/driver_income_rules_11_29_2018-pdf.279269/


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## Mad Medic (Aug 17, 2017)

Hey Pusher. Thanks for including the link I put on the Chicago thread of the complete TLC rules governing the NY bill passage and getting that link to this thread.

Appears there's some confusion among some drivers that may have heard the words "min wage" and associate it as becoming employees and others believing they will earn less than normal and only earn $26.51 hourly gross.

Reading the actual document should at minimum, provide accurate information, not speculation , of what actually occured, why and how it will be implemented.

Even a few NY drivers appear to have an inaccurate assumption of the proposal passage and what it means for a variety of different scenarios.

So much so that the TLC released a very clear and simple message on their social media platforms that fully explains it's not an employee status and a true min wage in the sense of people speculating a number of things, including the possibility of drivers trying to game it by sitting home 8 hours with app on and making $26.51 an hour for being very selective or only pinged for 2 rides in 8 hours yet earning same as someone not gaming it.

The TLC has posted in the simplest possible way that it is not a true minimum wage BUT a per trip better formula that increases the amount earned on any/all trips. Their extensive data does adequately contain enough variable factors that drivers would at least earn a minimum amt per hour for honest hours worked. They fully acknowledge that the driver which only accepts 1 or 2 rides over the course of an 8 hour day will not earn 8 hours of min $26.51 per hour for 8 hours. Now, if sitting ap on in the pit for 6 hours, maybe they'll have the option to accept a ping that not necessarily is to an arrivals terminal, thus providing honest opportunity to earn a min amt per hour, IF driver isn't cherry picking each ride for profit ability.

There's a copy of today's TLC statement posted in the New York thread titled "fooled by tlc" in which a driver posted it to imply they were fooled and not guaranteed a min wage.

My opinion, it's a good thing. There will always be drivers that cherry pick each and every ride, drivers that already have their own personal strategy that earns them more than what is the new minimums BUT the overwhelming majority of drivers actually want to be actively driving pax more and sitting less.

At least for them, they'll earn better for an honest day of hard work AND even the cherry picker will also benefit more on each accepted ride, thanks to a much better per trip formula and thanks to deadhead compensation.

Overall, it's a GREAT 1st step for the ride share industry. Glad they were able to improve in a way that benefits all of their drivers in that market.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Raising the rates ain't rocket science.


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## Wardell Curry (Jul 9, 2016)

Not to be the pessismist of the group, but you will still have drivers who just bought their new 2018 Camry xse struggling to pay all the additional expenses NYC drivers face. And some of them still don't know they have to put aside money for taxes thinking sales tax covers it. What this city needed was a minimum rate at least equal to the yellow meter rate, but all we got is a loosely interpreted minimum hourly rate based on a formula that tries to predict how much one would make by doing a certain number of trips each hour(with time and distance). A rate most veterans drivers were already above. All's well that ends well I guess. Pass those extra peanuts over here. Smh.


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## El Janitor (Feb 22, 2016)

You don't need employees to drive cars that drive themselves. Tick..........tock.............


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

if you look more closely at the article you will see uber is trying to push their uberpool crap into the agenda for no reason, trying to make congestion somehow an issue

uberpoop has nothing to do with the minimum fare pay


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

I just read most of that PDF.... WOW!!

Lots of new protections for taxi drivers, too.

Would love to see something like this sweep through my city. It would put a quick stop to underpayment of drivers and overhiring by U/L.

"Estimated that this will result in a raise for over 77,000 drivers in NYC". How many are there total, 80,000?


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

El Janitor said:


> You don't need employees to drive cars that drive themselves. Tick..........tock.............


Do you honestly believe that Uber can afford to field the numbers of cars needed to cover just one market alone? And then maintain them after purchase?

On set routes they make a little sense, but in the free style thrown all over creation way this works it does not.

Let's just look at two markets alone , New York and Chicago .. New York roughly 80,000 cars - Chicago roughly 67,000 cars X let's low ball it purchase price of $32,000. Now that car has a set lifespan of 5-10 yrs depending on overall mileage per year driven, and we all know that goes through the roof doing this. Now factor in the requirement of low emission and or electric with that still being a long term question of true lifespan. Diesel will get you the mileage longer term, but is not clean so the city's will not allow it.

Add in cost to maintain those vehicles and clean them. Because I am so sure that pax will respect them more than they do someone else's personal car after all. Now all that cost and overhead falls back on Uber not the contractor as it does now...


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## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

Pusher said:


> Do you honestly believe that Uber can afford to field the numbers of cars needed to cover just one market alone? And then maintain them after purchase?
> ...


Which is most likely why they're probably already developing pitches for private entities to invest in their own sdcs to put on the Uber network under Uber control with no doubt a daily monthly or per ride cleaning fee attached. Given enough money on the part of the indo idials involves some may actually go for it initially saving Uber the initial cost of investment. They might even try a franchise model of some type. They will no doubt squeeze the profits out of those investors.


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## Pusher (Mar 7, 2017)

Wonkytonk said:


> Which is most likely why they're probably already developing pitches for private entities to invest in their own sdcs to put on the Uber network under Uber control with no doubt a daily monthly or per ride cleaning fee attached. Given enough money on the part of the indo idials involves some may actually go for it initially saving Uber the initial cost of investment. They might even try a franchise model of some type. They will no doubt squeeze the profits out of those investors.


They will for sure try something along those lines, and some will fall for it, but Uber's PR is putrid and private investors are not really keen on forming over capital to them. Just look recently how some very big houses rejected them.


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## Frankyfiggs (Jan 19, 2017)

Driverless cars will be used as personal on demand toilets and convenient places to shoot up/do blow here in nyc.

The new rates change it from going further faster for 30+/hr to just being on the clock for 30/hr. 

Its definitely been calculated with vision zero and modifying driver behavior to favor slower speeds/decent bucks for the poor morons who make their money in traffic. Once pax figure this out they will want drivers to rush. 

Altogether a decent change. Wont ditch pax who want to make stops at the store anymore, and at a respectable rate if they want me to idle on the clock no more issues from me.

The out of town rates are going to make some of us do quite well, assuming pax dont start taking busses again when they see the new prices


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## Codyboy1 (May 21, 2018)

Frankyfiggs said:


> Driverless cars will be used as personal on demand toilets and convenient places to shoot up/do blow here in nyc.
> 
> The new rates change it from going further faster for 30+/hr to just being on the clock for 30/hr.
> 
> ...


And many will. I drive a taxi for 15, and then the last five and a half for uber. The lyft and uber x model created new customers. Higher rates will make then go back to public trans, and family members


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Codyboy1 said:


> And many will. I drive a taxi for 15, and then the last five and a half for uber. The lyft and uber x model created new customers. Higher rates will make then go back to public trans, and family members


You will have some who will do that here, but the majority will not. Convenience is still what rules the transportation choices of most people here, which is why the cabs have managed to survive, here. If they want to keep the bus riders, they can use U-Pool, although the payout to the drivers on those would have to increase, as well.

I have suggested, half seriously and half tongue-in-cheek, that Uber could re-instate all drivers de-activated for low ratings but restrict them to U-Pool. The cheap U-Pool users and bad drivers deserve each other. Uber could let other drivers opt in or out. If a poorly rated driver does well on U-Pool, he can be "promoted" to another level. The bus riders are used to rude and poor drivers and beat up vehicles, anyhow.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Nobody will poop in or shoot up in a SDC for very long. The security cameras will be instant checkmate for police agencies.


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## Kris150303 (Aug 1, 2018)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> So you think they'll meet that requirement without creating conditions?
> Are you trolling or really that cognitively challenged?


Its not an hourly rate like you think. If I work 3pm to 4pm and get no pings I don't get the $17.22. When I do get a ping the per mile and per time rate goes up, due to a number of different factors. If you get no pings you get no money.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Kris150303 said:


> Its not an hourly rate like you think.


All that it appears to be is that the TLC is going to regulate TNC rates. It is going to use a formula similar to what it, and other regulatory agencies nationwide, use to determine cab rates. Many of these agencies will use a formula that will render a profit to the driver comparable to the pay rates of mid-level government clerical employees.


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## Uberboyz (Apr 6, 2016)

17.22 will bring you less than $15 an hour after taxes for sure, you will end up getting $13.5


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

"This would result in estimated typical gross hourly earnings before expenses of at least $26.51 per hour."

Are they calculating taxes as expenses? Surely expenses are less than $9.29/hr.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Lot of misconceptions here.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

njn said:


> "This would result in estimated typical gross hourly earnings before expenses of at least $26.51 per hour."
> 
> Are they calculating taxes as expenses? Surely expenses are less than $9.29/hr.


Surely they are not. In NYC you must be TLC licensed and insured. So whatever your expenses are in your town, add that.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> NYC Uber partners are basically full time. They get TLC plates, license and insurance. Can't do that and just diddle around, it's about a $4000 investment just to get your car TLC compliant.


I think it's more


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Kodyhead said:


> I think it's more


Probably. My expenses are about $7 per hour in NC.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

njn said:


> Surely expenses are less than $9.29/hr.


In the Big City, places such as New York, Boston, Chicago, The Capital of Your Nation, San Francisco, Los Angeles or Honolulu, they are AT LEAST that.


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

As I posted over a month ago, the recent $ per-mile and $ per-minute rate changes around the country may be Uber's proactive attempt to satisfy minimum wage laws.
https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-just-gave-us-another-pay-cut.290179/page-9#post-4431561

Change the NY rates to $0.29 per minute and "poof", you are now paying the legal $17.22 per hour. And of course Uber will lower the per-mile rate to offset any driver pay increase.

Although they might have to pay the per-minute rates driving TO the pickup but that will be a question for the lawyers.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Pusher said:


> Now all that cost and overhead falls back on Uber not the contractor as it does now...





Wonkytonk said:


> Which is most likely why they're probably already developing pitches for private entities to invest in their own sdcs to put on the Uber network under Uber control with no doubt a daily monthly or per ride cleaning fee attached.


Uber really likes the IC model, doesn't have to own anything or be responsible for anything.

They find some company, sell them on the idea of free easy money (like they did to millions of drivers) and let others buy and maintain vehicles. When those companies realize what a loss and hassle it is, Uber finds another sucker.



TwoFiddyMile said:


> Nobody will poop in or shoot up in a SDC for very long.


I'm sure they will have security precautions to prevent general unauthorized entry into vehicles.

People who damage vehicles will be charged, with video to prove it.

The more challenging issue will be random violence and damage from strangers... broken windows, slashed tires, doors being keyed, sensors smashed with bats, that sort of thing. Nobody to charge if the police don't catch anyone, and cops have better things to do. The "safety drivers" will be minimum wage, they aren't going to chase down a group of teens with baseball bats that smashed a $10,000 sensor.

But again, if a separate company owns and operates the vehicles, Uber could care less. Kind of like it is now...


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

TLC weekly rentals with insurance are around $400, 40 hour week, $10/hr in car expense. Owner operators should be able to better this. Work more hours, the expense gets less. 80 hour week, $5/hr car expense.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

njn said:


> TLC weekly rentals with insurance are around $400, 40 hour week, $10/hr in car expense. Owner operators should be able to better this. Work more hours, the expense gets less. 80 hour week, $5/hr car expense.


You left out gas, but Fairly close. APrius costs about $1 per hour to gas.


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## cristian23c (Mar 12, 2018)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> As I said in another thread, New York City Uber drivers are now employs. Uber is required to pay them $17.22 per hour, therefore a driver will be expected to take every single ping.
> Expect massive deactivation.


You are 100 % wrong don't have any idea about this law. Second it's 26 something before expenses


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

cristian23c said:


> You are 100 % wrong don't have any idea about this law. Second it's 26 something before expenses


Lol


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Come early January, all of our questions and speculations will be answered.

All I can say is, the best thing Uber ever did for us was to piss off the city of New York!!


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Pusher said:


> New York City's Taxi and Limousine Commission voted today to establish a minimum wage for drivers working for companies like Uber, Lyft, Juno and Via. The city is the first in the US to set a minimum pay rate for app-based drivers. Going forward, the minimum pay will be set at $17.22 per hour after expenses, bringing it in line with the city's $15 per hour minimum wage for typical employees, which will take effect at the end of the year. The additional $2.22 takes into account contract drivers' payroll taxes and paid time off.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2018/12/04/nyc-minimum-pay-wage-uber-lyft-drivers/
> 
> https://drivingguild.org/news/


How will they do this? Split the rides into time chunks? It's not like you can be online for 8 hours and get paid, or what about time from one ride to another, is that paid?


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## UberDiaz (Aug 6, 2016)

Pusher said:


> New York City's Taxi and Limousine Commission voted today to establish a minimum wage for drivers working for companies like Uber, Lyft, Juno and Via. The city is the first in the US to set a minimum pay rate for app-based drivers. Going forward, the minimum pay will be set at $17.22 per hour after expenses, bringing it in line with the city's $15 per hour minimum wage for typical employees, which will take effect at the end of the year. The additional $2.22 takes into account contract drivers' payroll taxes and paid time off.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2018/12/04/nyc-minimum-pay-wage-uber-lyft-drivers/
> 
> https://drivingguild.org/news/


$17 per hour? That wont even pay my $1600 rent after i pay for gas uber and lyft are done. Alot of ppl are just gonna get a regular JOB if thats the case. Expenses are high if you are a full time driver like me, farewell to working and making however much you want...it was nice while it lasted


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

UberDiaz said:


> $17 per hour? That wont even pay my $1600 rent after i pay for gas uber and lyft are done. Alot of ppl are just gonna get a regular JOB if thats the case. Expenses are high if you are a full time driver like me, farewell to working and making however much you want...it was nice while it lasted


Maybe you didn't actually take the time to READ the new law. It is more than that.


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## beantowncruiser (Jan 6, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> Ironic, isn't it? No matter how many times governmental involvement in business results in the exact opposite of the intent, some idiots persist in believing the approach will work if we but try it one more time.
> 
> The Uber model succeeds so wildly precisely because the existing taxi model failed.
> 
> Ignored in all this is the customer. Chase off the customer and you fail. Remember, customers got by just fine without Uber. They can do so again.


Chase off the customer? Where are they going to go... call a taxi and pay four times what rideshare costs? Riders are too used to paying fares that are unrealistically low. Riders should be paying more for the convenience of being taken door to door, getting stops at convenience stores, coffee shops, liquor stores, helping them in and out of cars, putting luggage, strollers, and all manner of crap in trunks and hatches. etc., while the driver makes virtually nothing waiting for them. and you're worried about government regulation that allows you to drive a car with seat belts, air bags, etc. You're worried about government regulation that would keep rideshare companies from screwing us at every turn? Those government regulations help to keep you safe and alive, and hopefully at some point help guarantee that we can all make a decent wage for what we go through every day providing undercharged riders a safe, comfortable ride to their destination.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

While you busily polish your halo, you might consider removing your cloak of entitlement.

The customer doesn't need us more than we need them. OPEC embraced that idea, with the result that they're still a bunch of goat herders, shivering in dark tents. The customers they thought thought they had over the barrel instead found ways to get by without their oil.

That's the beauty of free markets. In a free market we need them exactly as much as they need us. The only fly in the ointment is that there is always a fool who want to take the "free" out and rig the game in his favor.

Regulations? Please. The market will always find a way. Just look at how successful regulations have been in removing marijuana from the market.


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> OPEC embraced that idea, with the result that they're still a bunch of goat herders, shivering in dark tents.


Damn! Racist much??!! Geez!


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## TorontoToronto (Dec 9, 2018)

$17 an hour is still not enough to pay for your car! Which will be useless in 5-6years. Gas, oil, windshield washer fluid, car wash, insurance,,,,, Someone is making money! Just not the drivers!!!
Shame on them.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Scott.Sul said:


> As I posted over a month ago, the recent $ per-mile and $ per-minute rate changes around the country may be Uber's proactive attempt to satisfy minimum wage laws.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-just-gave-us-another-pay-cut.290179/page-9#post-4431561
> 
> Change the NY rates to $0.29 per minute and "poof", you are now paying the legal $17.22 per hour. And of course Uber will lower the per-mile rate to offset any driver pay increase.
> ...


I think you are exactly right. The only thing left to do is factor in "utilization rate" for each market and return miles (dead miles) resulting from out of the area destinations



TorontoToronto said:


> $17 an hour is still not enough to pay for your car! Which will be useless in 5-6years. Gas, oil, windshield washer fluid, car wash, insurance,,,,, Someone is making money! Just not the drivers!!!
> Shame on them.


its a per ride formula that they expect to generate enough income so that the drivers net $15 an hour


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## moJohoJo (Feb 19, 2017)

LOOK WHAT I GOT PAID ( BELOW ) BY UBER TODAY . Out of 22 of my trips i completed today Uber took out over 50 % on all trips i reviewed and i reviewed almost all of my history . On this trip i got $2.62 after spending $1 for gas, pro rate my car payment, maintenance, insurance and i made nothing yet,
Uber paid themselves a $7.45 for their commission . UNBELIEVABLE !!!

You Receive

Base Fare
$0.86
Distance (1.51 mi × $0.7950/mi)
$1.20
Time (5.02 min × $0.1125/min)
$0.56
*Total
$2.62*
Your earnings are always calculated the same way. On every trip you provide, you earn your base fare, plus time and/or distance rates for the length of the trip, plus applicable tolls, fees, surge/Boost, and promotions. To see your rates anytime, see Fares in the menu.
Rider Pays

Rider Price
$10.07
*Rider Payment
$10.07*
Includes any booking fees, pass-through fees, contributions, and reimbursable costs such as tolls paid by the rider.
Uber Receives

Service Fee
$4.45
Booking Fee
$3.00
*Total
$7.45*


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Frankyfiggs said:


> Driverless cars will be used as personal on demand toilets and convenient places to shoot up/do blow here in nyc.


Honestly, I just can't believe there are people at this forum that actually think there will ever be cars picking people up without a driver in them but it's clear the propaganda is still working.

And it's that propaganda that scares some drivers into accepting anything Uber and Lyft do because they think the driverless cars will soon take their job


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## Frankyfiggs (Jan 19, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Honestly, I just can't believe there are people at this forum that actually think there will ever be cars picking people up without a driver in them but it's clear the propaganda is still working.
> 
> And it's that propaganda that scares some drivers into accepting anything Uber and Lyft do because they think the driverless cars will soon take their job


Yea I bet there were folks who never believed a buggy could move without a horse or ppl could fly in planes across the planet.

Driverless is gonna start like flip phone and end like iPhone and if you are dumb enough to sleep on it that's on you


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Frankyfiggs said:


> Yea I bet there were folks who never believed a buggy could move without a horse or ppl could fly in planes across the planet.
> 
> Driverless is gonna start like flip phone and end like iPhone and if you are dumb enough to sleep on it that's on you


Humans drive buggies. Humans fly planes.

Let me know if there's anything else I can help you understand.

And if you'd like to be the very first person to ever post a link to a video that shows a SDC driving itself without the human driving the car or touching the steering wheel for atleast 10 minutes or more feel free to let us know.


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## Frankyfiggs (Jan 19, 2017)

Do you man. You believe what you want to believe. Just like the 8 cabbies who offed themselves this year. I'm sure they were in denial too.

With how much major corps have invested the driverless car scheme is not going away. There are only two factors that are unknown - how long? And how many cars will be driverless.

Every major auto manufacturer and software company is developing it, many in joint partnership.they are doing it much more quietly since all the bad press.just because you dont see articles about it doesn't mean they all said "guess it ain't happening lol o well"

Being in denial wont change the fact that people are spending billions on it, while saying it wont happen is easy and free, but makes you feel better.
Sleep tight


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## Christian Sacco (May 26, 2016)

Theres no denial i feel in his post. Driverless cars most certainly will not be running the market...EVER. Even with the billions if not trillions of dollars invested into the autonomous cars will fail. Most people dont like slow weird and creepy things. Uber started down a rabbit hole and is leading the investors into the desert. I hope they do relaunch the autonomous and maybe it wipes out a family of four this time and keeps going maybe killing the driver who was playing games on his phone. Our roads nor highways were designed for the possibility of autonomous cars. Insurance will be thru the roof for companies.


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## Frankyfiggs (Jan 19, 2017)

Christian Sacco said:


> Theres no denial i feel in his post. Driverless cars most certainly will not be running the market...EVER. Even with the billions if not trillions of dollars invested into the autonomous cars will fail. Most people dont like slow weird and creepy things. Uber started down a rabbit hole and is leading the investors into the desert. I hope they do relaunch the autonomous and maybe it wipes out a family of four this time and keeps going maybe killing the driver who was playing games on his phone. Our roads nor highways were designed for the possibility of autonomous cars. Insurance will be thru the roof for companies.


Fact, when horseless buggies (cars) first came out people were so freaked out there was no horse that people put fake horses on the front to chill people out.

But believe what you want.look I like to drive and also make money driving, but I'm not going to pretend new technology doesn't exist. And that one day it is possible that technology might replace my job.

Ask all the photo developers where their jobs went, or anyone who worked in a video store, or many factories, hell even grocery clerks and self checkout.cashiers at toll booths.its a long list.driving is just more complicated so it's taking longer


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## UBERgoober123 (Jul 12, 2018)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Lol. You think Uber will pay $17.22 to drivers who game and cherry pick?


Yes, for $17.22 drivers dont have to cherry pick. Everythings a ripe cherry.


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## Christian Sacco (May 26, 2016)

People arent even ready to self check out at the store...why still so many clerks? You dont seem that happy though...


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Frankyfiggs said:


> Do you man. You believe what you want to believe. Just like the 8 cabbies who offed themselves this year. I'm sure they were in denial too.
> 
> With how much major corps have invested the driverless car scheme is not going away. There are only two factors that are unknown - how long? And how many cars will be driverless.
> 
> ...


Give me something to be in denial about. Show me that supposed SDC's are even progressing. If you say they will work show me proof of that. Until then, the only person in denial is you and the people being tricked into thinking they will work because the people pushing them are saying so.


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## Christian Sacco (May 26, 2016)

Lol...it would be glorious to see a multiple SDC accident on the parkway as they dont clean those up right away...looking for whos liable while hordes are gridlocked for hours...im sure city official would not care if bribed right but uber is failing as a business...not as an idea...but as a business they cant get a grip or turn a profit. They are trying to still say they are a tech company but all their outlets are transportation looking for lower taxes and higher trading value (if you are so inclined or educated on) when so called ipo hits the street. They continuously stretch the truth, lie, and decieve us all in the name of something they cant yet achieve...profit


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## Frankyfiggs (Jan 19, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Give me something to be in denial about. Show me that supposed SDC's are even progressing. If you say they will work show me proof of that. Until then, the only person in denial is you and the people being tricked into thinking they will work because the people pushing them are saying so.


Believe what you like nobody from nowhere


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## Christian Sacco (May 26, 2016)

Lol...i know that wasnt directed towards me but its still comica.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Christian Sacco said:


> Lol...i know that wasnt directed towards me but its still comica.


Since he quoted me I'm guessin' it was me so I'll take credit for winning my argument when he gave up and started insulting instead.


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## Christian Sacco (May 26, 2016)

Lol...grow up...really you seem mad at everything.


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## Immoralized (Nov 7, 2017)

Yeah SDC in the year 2030-2040 and by that point Uber might not even be around what I do know for sure is 99% of the current Uber drivers driving at this moment in time would not be  Not because of SDC it because they would of moved onto some other gig.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Christian Sacco said:


> Lol...grow up...really you seem mad at everything.


If being mad is simply using logic and common sense then I'm extremely upset.


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## Christian Sacco (May 26, 2016)

Please feel free to criticize and as harshly as you want towards uber...however when you challenge or call out real people or lifestyles...you are better as a person not to.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Seamus said:


> Lot of misconceptions here.
> 
> View attachment 279611


SuzeCB


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## ChicagoMike (Nov 14, 2018)

I'm going to take an unpopular opinion here. I drive in Chicago. A couple of years ago, Uber had a pay scale something like drive 1.5 trips per hour, they guarantee you 25 an hour or what your earnings actually we're, whichever was more. So what'd I do? I'd do 12 trips (usually would take me about 4 hours), drive out to my mom's house, leave the app on, never get a ping, and I'd make 200 dollars for 4 hours of work. 

Right now, I make about 30 an hour with bonuses (honestly, if you can't do that in a big city with high demand, you're probably doing something wrong. But, I won't cast dispersions, I know I get paid more because I've been driving for four years and I know pay greatly varies from area to area). 

The point is, Uber did the right thing in switching from a guaranteed hourly minimum to a system that incentivisis drivers to get to busy areas and do as many pickups as they can. With a guaranteed hourly wage, you're going to have drivers figuring out ways to game the system (like I did) and that's going to cost Uber money. Which means either they go bankrupt, or they cut into the earnings of drivers who are profitable to pay money to the drivers who are unprofitable. Both seem like pretty bad options to me.


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## Nu1 (Jan 17, 2018)

moJohoJo said:


> LOOK WHAT I GOT PAID ( BELOW ) BY UBER TODAY . Out of 22 of my trips i completed today Uber took out over 50 % on all trips i reviewed and i reviewed almost all of my history . On this trip i got $2.62 after spending $1 for gas, pro rate my car payment, maintenance, insurance and i made nothing yet,
> Uber paid themselves a $7.45 for their commission . UNBELIEVABLE !!!
> 
> You Receive
> ...


 What market are you driving? Would be nice if NY drivers would post some trips with the new pay structure and compare with old pay structure. Based on what others posted here there is no minimum amount guaranteed but instead a different pay rate. 
Now is where it gets harder to understand the new pay structure. Is this just a rate increase for everybody that drives in that market ( a rate increase that will get to at least 26$/h minimum for the big majority, calculus that included waiting for a ping, drive to the pickup and waiting for rider). Uber , based on the data, determined this is what NY market needs to get at 26$/h level. Now my second thought, is this new pay structure variable at times? Are they paying more or less per mile, min just to achive that min 26$/h?!?
If,indeed, this is a pay raise for NY then I'm happy for them and I hope is coming in Chicago too. I don't know what is that hard to digest the fact NY drivers got a raise, NYC did a great job by forcing uber pay a better rate( to me is as simple as that). If you are a good driver you can only do better with the new rates..... what is the beef that some good drivers don't like better rates ( don't we all want better rates? I'm sick to go work for .64$/mile in Chicago). Sick to chase uber's carrots( quest, consecutive trip bonus or surge), uber should pay higher rates so drivers don't play the app that much.


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

Frankyfiggs said:


> Fact, when horseless buggies (cars) first came out people were so freaked out there was no horse that people put fake horses on the front to chill people out....


Problem solved...


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## UberFooledYou1 (Dec 14, 2018)

EmOinDallas said:


> Did anyone else notice *Uber's statement used the phrase "Full-time drivers*"? That seem's to be foretelling the direction they will take when fighting this legislation, as they most assuredly will. Guessing there will be stiffer requirements for drivers to get the $17.22 before expenses...hours worked, cancellation/acceptance rate thresholds, driver ratings, stiffer vehicle requirements, etc...
> 
> I'm curious to see how this unfolds and is a step in the right direction...could be something that happens across the U.S. eventually.


In NYC Uber drivers are full time drivers it's not rideshare in NYC, it's called FHV driver. There is no such thing as ridesharing to begin with, no one is sharing any rides when driving for Uber, you are a Taxi driver.
Uber started calling itself rideshare "and people bought this nonsense" so they could circumvent being labeled a Taxi company and having to adhere to the same rules and regulations that Taxi companies have to.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

UberFooledYou1 said:


> In NYC Uber drivers are full time drivers it's not rideshare in NYC, it's called FHV driver. There is no such thing as ridesharing to begin with, no one is sharing any rides when driving for Uber, you are a Taxi driver.
> Uber started calling itself rideshare "and people bought this nonsense" so they could circumvent being labeled a Taxi company and having to adhere to the same rules and regulations that Taxi companies have to.


Like most importantly medallions which at peak pre Uber costs were in the 100,000-$1,000,000 range EACH CAR for various North American cities.

Barrier to entry?

Uhh yeah.,.


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## UberFooledYou1 (Dec 14, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Like most importantly medallions which at peak pre Uber costs were in the 100,000-$1,000,000 range EACH CAR for various North American cities.
> 
> Barrier to entry?
> 
> Uhh yeah.,.


What exactly does this have ANYTHING to do with my post.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

UberFooledYou1 said:


> What exactly does this have ANYTHING to do with my post.


Adhering to the same rules and regulations,

Buying medallions is a HUGE part of that in many cities accross north America.


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## UberFooledYou1 (Dec 14, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Adhering to the same rules and regulations,
> 
> Buying medallions is a HUGE part of that in many cities accross north America.


You seem confused.


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## Fermented Fruit (Dec 6, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Nothing at all to indicate this will happen.





TwoFiddyMile said:


> Lol. You think Uber will pay $17.22 to drivers who game and cherry pick?





uberdriverfornow said:


> It states they are required to now.


Until they deactivate. Then they don't have to. Otherwise there is no incentive to take any rides unless they raise the rates enuff to make it likely that you'd profit more than $17 by putting miles on yr vehicle by giving rides.

..................................................................

I guess I didn't need to say that. People already did. I should have more faith that the obvious will be pointed out.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Seamus said:


> SuzeCB


Ok. So what's the minimum fare?


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

While they may seem trivial to some, their ARE differences between rideshare and taxi operations. 

Namely, rideshare drivers do not pick up "wavers," sit on cab stands, or transport strangers who simply walk up. Nor do we handle cash.

We don't "have" to transport anybody. 

I once drove a taxi. Apart from traffic - I doubt Christ himself could sort out traffic - Uber has eliminated nearly all the aggravations found in driving a cab. 

By simply requiring an account and a credit card, the troublesome customers are eliminated. By letting ME control the schedule and having me provide the car, I don't have issues with the cab company.

For those who think we should have the same rules apply, here's a thought: how about we eliminate the medallion fees, abolish the useless taxi authorities, and repeal the rules?

I've never understood how folks can be so anti-freedom. Why do they think you will succeed if only you repeat the same mistakes with greater vigor?

Even today the cab companies refuse to adapt to reality. There is no reason they could not have designed a "Cab App" that would send you a Yellow or Checker cab in exactly the same manner as does Uber. There's no reason for drivers to be without integral navigation or a means to contact the customer.


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## UberFooledYou1 (Dec 14, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> While they may seem trivial to some, their ARE differences between rideshare and taxi operations.
> 
> Namely, rideshare drivers do not pick up "wavers," sit on cab stands, or transport strangers who simply walk up. Nor do we handle cash.
> 
> ...


Uber is not a rideshare "that's why they have been regulated in many cities and banned from others", Uber is a Taxi service for hire vehicle service. You are picking up complete strangers that DISPATCH you to pick them up and drive them from point A to point B for $. Uber got rid of the dispatcher with the app they created, the driver is the dispatcher and driver "Uber is only the facilitator of the app, and they charge the driver a certain percentage to use it to conduct their Taxi For Hire Vehicle business", why is it so hard for some people to comprehend. 
You are NOT sharing your ride in way shape or form. You are conducting a business.
Uber created this term to circumvent laws that apply to every other Taxi For Hire Vehicle service on the planet. They are conducting the SAME service and business as Taxi FHV services.
In NYC Uber is considered a FHV service.
Ridesharing is when you share your ride with someone heading YOUR WAY.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Nice try. Only problem is that the matter has been debated many times in open court and the rulings are clear: Uber is NOT a taxi service. 

Try getting Checker to let you take rides from Yellow. Girl oood luck! Yet I take trips from Uber and Lyft all day long, with no issues. If I so desired, I could add trips from DoorDash, Rover, and whoever else. If I feel like taking a job to wire a house along the way (I have the license), none of my dispatch/bookkeeping services care - nor should they. I'M the business, not Uber.

Who would have thunk Yellow Cab would fear little ol' me? All those years the cab companies abused the customer and exploited the drivers. Along come Uber, beating them at their own rigged game. Small wonder their minions howl.

All the cab companies need do is to embrace the smart phone. One wonders why they refuse to adapt. It's telling that their only response is recourse to regulation - heaven forbid they adapt with the times.

Just keep trying to make arguments that have already been debunked. That will inspire confidence!


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## UberFooledYou1 (Dec 14, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> Nice try. Only problem is that the matter has been debated many times in open court and the rulings are clear: Uber is NOT a taxi service.
> 
> Try getting Checker to let you take rides from Yellow. Girl oood luck! Yet I take trips from Uber and Lyft all day long, with no issues. If I so desired, I could add trips from DoorDash, Rover, and whoever else. If I feel like taking a job to wire a house along the way (I have the license), none of my dispatch/bookkeeping services care - nor should they. I'M the business, not Uber.
> 
> ...


What court is that, what exactly is an open court. Uber is a Taxi service, nothing more nothing less. All you are doing is going in circles, trying to tell us a banana is not a banana but an apple.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

I note that just last August new regulations were proposed that would give the taxi commission authority to regulate rideshare.

Think about that. That means that even the taxi commission recognized that rideshare did NOT constitute taxi service, so the commission did not have any authority to regulate it.

That's pretty plain. The same drama has taken place in every city that has ride share. Time and again, taxi authorities realize they have no jurisdiction. If anyone is "going in a circle," it's the sundry taxi advocates who keep making the same failed arguments. This is so plain that one Queens judge put it bluntly to the taxi folks: adapt or die.

Rideshare does not pick up random haulers. Taxis do. Rideshare doesn't handle cash. Taxis do. Clearly, taxis and rideshare are different businesses.

Just because they share SOME features they aren't the same thing. Might as well argue for running camels in the Kentucky Derby.


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## Lawlet91 (Jun 8, 2017)

Your argument falls extremely short when you look at Mears in Orlando. Yellow, checker and city cab are all run by Mears Transportation, and they have their own app to book rides through as well so your “it’s not a taxi company because taxis don’t have an app(or any other reason you come up with for not haves)” is very inaccurate and taxis have had these things longer than Uber has even existed


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Very nice. What's their market share? Has rideshare affected them at all?

Many places have the taxi business monopolized by a few firms. What barriers are there to entering that market?


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## Lawlet91 (Jun 8, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> Very nice. What's their market share? Has rideshare affected them at all?
> 
> Many places have the taxi business monopolized by a few firms. What barriers are there to entering that market?


Taxi business is not monopolized here, Uber Lyft and 4 other "major" cab companies operate in Orlando (Mears has about 90% of non-rideshare business since they have the exclusive contract with WDW) and the barrier to entry is laughably low here at $500 a permitted cab in Orange County, though you need to be more than an independent to get city of Orlando or airport permits, (thus the 5 companies that work MCO) the regulation here is very small but all of it is entirely justified


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## UbeeDubee (Dec 16, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> I note that just last August new regulations were proposed that would give the taxi commission authority to regulate rideshare.
> 
> Think about that. That means that even the taxi commission recognized that rideshare did NOT constitute taxi service, so the commission did not have any authority to regulate it.
> 
> ...


Camels in the Kentucky Derby? Good One! You go girl!


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Cabs require permits? 

Uber is not required to have the permit?

Rideshare is not a taxi service. Q.E.D.

Next question, please


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## Tysmith95 (Jan 30, 2017)

Why are people saying that Uber created "rideshare" to circumvent rules. It was Lyft that first allowed people without commercial insurance to pick up passengers, for a "recommended" price. Uber started out as a black car service, but once they saw Lyft getting away with "rideshare" taxi services they followed suit with UberX.


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## Ubereater (Dec 25, 2015)

Karen Stein said:


> Cabs require permits?
> 
> Uber is not required to have the permit?
> 
> ...


"rideSHARE" is service ?


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> Ironic, isn't it? No matter how many times governmental involvement in business results in the exact opposite of the intent, some idiots persist in believing the approach will work if we but try it one more time.
> 
> The Uber model succeeds so wildly precisely because the existing taxi model failed.
> 
> Ignored in all this is the customer. Chase off the customer and you fail. Remember, customers got by just fine without Uber. They can do so again.


Many pax in Boston are too young to know how to get somewhere without rideshare



UBERPROcolorado said:


> The key is that the minimum hourly figure is AFTER expenses!!! Gas...etc!!!
> 
> So taking every trip given would be okay.
> 
> I cant wait to watch this spread across the nation. Uber will either die or follow the rules.


If Uber compensates drivers for expenses, the IRS mileage deduction is going away.



Wonkytonk said:


> Given the current freeze on new drivers there of this happens it won't happen until after the freeze on new licenses are lifted.
> 
> I do agree with you though that when drivers become employees they will demand a lot more control over driver actions than they typically have been, but the caveat on that is the way the app is already currently set up they have an inordinate amount of control over drivers as it is. Employer level actually.


There isn't a freeze. There is a cap. BIG DIFFERENCE


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