# Armed



## CowboyNation214 (Aug 31, 2021)

Just wondering how many drivers don't arm themselves while driving. I stay with a firearm even though I may not have time to pull it while someone is in the backseat.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

CowboyNation214 said:


> Just wondering how many drivers don't arm themselves while driving. I stay with a firearm even though I may not have time to pull it while someone is in the backseat.


I have numerous guns stowed safely 
in my garage.
But have no interest in carrying one 
while I am driving or out in public.
We do have a concealed carry law
here in chicago though.
A buddy of mine was trying to get me to
go get one when they became availible.
I asked him Kevin,
how many times in your lifetime
(56 year lifelong chicago resident)
have you needed to have a gun on you?
Answer was never..
I wonder how many times he might
have been arrested for carrying
if he did have one on him..


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Who is stupid enough to announce on a public forum that they are breaking a rule that can get them permanently deactivated? 
If you think you are anonymous and safe on the internet you are foolish as well.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Atavar said:


> Who is stupid enough to announce on a public forum that they are breaking a rule that can get them permanently deactivated?
> If you think you are anonymous and safe on the internet you are foolish as well.


Thank you. Not to mention that if you ever used it or got into an incident there's a little thing called discovery which might help a legal opponent gain access to your posts.


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## CowboyNation214 (Aug 31, 2021)

Atavar said:


> Who is stupid enough to announce on a public forum that they are breaking a rule that can get them permanently deactivated?
> If you think you are anonymous and safe on the internet you are foolish as well.


Is it not legal to conceal and/or open carry during rideshare?


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## CowboyNation214 (Aug 31, 2021)

Atavar said:


> Who is stupid enough to announce on a public forum that they are breaking a rule that can get them permanently deactivated?
> If you think you are anonymous and safe on the internet you are foolish as well.


Which rule is being broke? You are foolish to assume anyone said they were anonymous.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

CowboyNation214 said:


> Is it not legal to conceal and/or open carry during rideshare?


I'll be happy to answer. It is legal in some areas. Legal where I live with the proper permit. That's not the question though. It is against the TOS which doesn't mean much if something bad happens. By posting here, if you ever get into an incident, an attorney can use what you post here against you and interpret things in the worst possible way. You do you and what you feel you need to do for your comfort level but there's no need to advertise.


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## CowboyNation214 (Aug 31, 2021)

Damn I had no idea. Thanks for letting me know. While I disagree with it, that is what Uber wants and ill follow the rules.


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## CowboyNation214 (Aug 31, 2021)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I'll be happy to answer. It is legal in some areas. Legal where I live with the proper permit. That's not the question though. It is against the TOS which doesn't mean much if something bad happens. By posting here, if you ever get into an incident, an attorney can use what you post here against you and interpret things in the worst possible way. You do you and what you feel you need to do for your comfort level but there's no need to advertise.


I assumed since it was legal in Texas that it was ok. Thanks for schooling me and I'll leave it at home when I rideshare


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

CowboyNation214 said:


> Damn I had no idea. Thanks for letting me know. While I disagree with it, that is what Uber wants and ill follow the rules.


I'm not telling you what to do but looking at it from a purely philosophical point of view. One might prefer to take the risk of deactivation which is not life threatening. Just understand that if you are ever in a traffic stop, disclose that you are carrying and the pax reports it, you will be deactivated. That's a risk that some would consider reasonable.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)

I has 2 arms.


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## CowboyNation214 (Aug 31, 2021)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I'm not telling you what to do but looking at it from a purely philosophical point of view. One might prefer to take the risk of deactivation which is not life threatening. Just understand that if you are ever in a traffic stop, disclose that you are carrying and the pax reports it, you will be deactivated. That's a risk that some would consider reasonable.


Yea im not ready to lose this income over a rule i didn't know about. I never seen anything about it, but that's what I get for assuming. Thanks a lot.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I'm not telling you what to do but looking at it from a purely philosophical point of view. One might prefer to take the risk of deactivation which is not life threatening. Just understand that if you are ever in a traffic stop, disclose that you are carrying and the pax reports it, you will be deactivated. That's a risk that some would consider reasonable.


I have dodged this deactivation threat a few times. My paxes did not rat me out to the b00ber.

But then the area I live in is not the most leftist land around.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

CowboyNation214 said:


> Is it not legal to conceal and/or open carry during rideshare?


It's like really against the rules and grounds
for instant permanent deactivation I think..


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> It's like really against the rules and grounds
> for instant permanent deactivation I think..


If Florida, it's against the law for employers to not allow firearms in the employees car while at work. AND the law also defines independent contractors as employees and the hiring party as employers , for the purpose of the law. Exceptions to the law are places where guns aren't allowed legally like schools and power plants. 

I'd be surprised if Texas of all places didn't have a similar law.


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Boca Ratman said:


> If Florida, it's against the law for employers to not allow firearms in the employees car while at work. AND the law also defines independent contractors as employees and the hiring party as employers , for the purpose of the law. Exceptions to the law are places where guns aren't allowed legally like schools and power plants.
> 
> I'd be surprised if Texas of all places didn't have a similar law.


And uber began following laws exactly when?
They are like freakin trump SUE THEM.....


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Boca Ratman said:


> If Florida, it's against the law for employers to not allow firearms in the employees car while at work. AND the law also defines independent contractors as employees and the hiring party as employers , for the purpose of the law. Exceptions to the law are places where guns aren't allowed legally like schools and power plants.
> 
> I'd be surprised if Texas of all places didn't have a similar law.


We do. The Texas Labor Code prohibits employers from having a policy or rule against gun owners storing firearms within their privately-owned motor vehicle in an employee parking area.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Boca Ratman said:


> If Florida, it's against the law for employers to not allow firearms in the employees car while at work. AND the law also defines independent contractors as employees and the hiring party as employers.


Suffice to say that's certainly surprising, especially from a state as conservative as Florida. I've never heard or read about that anywhere.

If Florida drivers are employees why aren't they receiving employee benefits?


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I asked him Kevin,
> how many times in your lifetime
> (56 year lifelong chicago resident)
> have you needed to have a gun on you?
> ...


Ask Kevin how many times he's been pulled out of a car and searched by the police. For me the answer is 'never'.
I carry every day.
I have never needed to point it at a fellow human -- though I have put it in my hand before.
It is a last resort, and when it's needed ... really needed ... it is the only thing that's going to work.

How many times has a seatbelt saved Kevin's life?

I rode a motorcycle for years ... never dumped it once.
That helmet ... I shouldn't wear it?

It's safety equipment.
It is one more option, the last resort.

But, that's a personal decision that each individual has to make.
It is up to you to protect yourself. The cops can't do it.
All they can do is bring a body bag and clean up the mess.

Every time I drop it in the holster I say a prayer that I won't need it.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

CowboyNation214 said:


> Is it not legal to conceal and/or open carry during rideshare?


It is legal but prohibited by Lyft and Uber rules. If a passenger ever reports you or if you ever have to use your firearm you will be permanently deactivated.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Atavar said:


> you ever have to use your firearm you will be permanently deactivated.


THAT will be the LEAST of your worries if you have to use it.

You'll use it to save your LIFE ... not some shit job.
Who GAF what Uber thinks ... I know they don't care about my life as much as I do.

Permanently deactivated = RIP


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> If Florida, it's against the law for employers to not allow firearms in the employees car while at work. AND the law also defines independent contractors as employees and the hiring party as employers , for the purpose of the law. Exceptions to the law are places where guns aren't allowed legally like schools and power plants.
> 
> I'd be surprised if Texas of all places didn't have a similar law.


I think you will find that even in Florida if the employee is using his car for work then for that duration the car becomes company premises and the employer can control weapons possession.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> THAT will be the LEAST of your worries if you have to use it.
> 
> You'll use it to save your LIFE ... not some shit job.
> Who GAF what Uber thinks ... I know they don't care about my life as much as I do.
> ...


I don’t disagree. I am just saying that announcing your intentions in a public forum is not a good idea.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Atavar said:


> Who is stupid enough to announce on a public forum that they are breaking a rule that can get them permanently deactivated?
> If you think you are anonymous and safe on the internet you are foolish as well.


Shufflers
Elderly people avoiders
App hack posters
Just to names a few


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I have numerous guns stowed safely
> in my garage.
> But have no interest in carrying one
> while I am driving or out in public.
> ...


I read this as, “I have numerous firearms locked up and inaccessible in my home should I ever need to protect my family from strangers who enter my home uninvited, and likewise, I have zero interest in protecting myself from strangers I invite into my car.”


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> It is legal but prohibited by Lyft and Uber rules. If a passenger ever reports you or if you ever have to use your firearm you will be permanently deactivated.


Why would you be showing your personal protection device to a passenger, or even discussing it with a passenger?

If you actually have to use it, deactivation is better than the alternative of being dead.

These are no brainers.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

CowboyNation214 said:


> Just wondering how many drivers don't arm themselves while driving. I stay with a firearm even though I may not have time to pull it while someone is in the backseat.


I have thought about taking a pistol class and getting a permit to carry.


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Atavar said:


> I don’t disagree. I am just saying that announcing your intentions in a public forum is not a good idea.


Here is a cheap copy of the unalienable rights you were born with regardless of who controls the internet and or federal government or your employer. 










The Constitution of the United States: Delegates of the Constitutional Convention: 9780880801447: Amazon.com: Books


The Constitution of the United States [Delegates of the Constitutional Convention] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Constitution of the United States



www.amazon.com


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

TX Uber Ant said:


> Here is a cheap copy of the unalienable rights you were born with regardless of who controls the internet and or federal government or your employer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And here's a free educational video, in case reading is too long for some:


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> I have thought about taking a pistol class and getting a permit to carry.


That is actually the best way to find out your local laws and how you should exercise your rights accordingly.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

I don't currently own a gun. Shot one a handful of times.

If I did get one I'd ask @Trafficat to recommend a good instructor in Phoenix since he's a firearms instructor himself. I'd drive to Vegas for lessons but Reno is a bit far. 

Then I'd allocate money for ongoing lessons and ammo for practice.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

New2This said:


> I don't currently own a gun. Shot one a handful of times.
> 
> If I did get one I'd ask @Trafficat to recommend a good instructor in Phoenix since he's a firearms instructor himself. I'd drive to Vegas for lessons but Reno is a bit far.
> 
> Then I'd allocate money for ongoing lessons and ammo for practice.


Really any place that has concealed carry classes that the state recognizes for licensing, should be sufficient. The classes are standardized, and law enforcement supervised to ensure standards are kept. Basically, if your local sheriff accepts that class' certification, the sheriff has signed off on it being "good enough".


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

I'm thinking we could expense the purchase of a gun under security systems on our taxes 😁😎


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

New2This said:


> I don't currently own a gun. Shot one a handful of times.
> 
> If I did get one I'd ask @Trafficat to recommend a good instructor in Phoenix since he's a firearms instructor himself. I'd drive to Vegas for lessons but Reno is a bit far.
> 
> Then I'd allocate money for ongoing lessons and ammo for practice.


Those of us who are considered freedom extremest by the MSM actually pay close attention to the criminals and how it plays out for them. In your state it could be wise to find out what worked and what didn't in the case of Gabby Giffords.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TX Uber Ant said:


> Those of us who are considered freedom extremest by the MSM actually pay close attention to the criminals and how it plays out for them. In your state it could be wise to find out what worked and what didn't in the case of Gabby Giffords.


I'm too lazy to Google it. 

I remember the incident but not the details. 

Cliffnotes version?


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

He used a Glock 19 with a 33 round mag but chose to use full metal jacket ammo which is why she is still alive today. I rolled with a Glock 19 with the same 33 round mag during Brandon's riots here in Dallas but chose law enforcement type ammo. FMJ is meant to wound but law enforcement ammo is designed to get the job done. If ever they want to follow me home to the suburbs there is 2 AK 47's and three AR15's with 15 thousand rounds of ammo waiting for them.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Remember in 2018 a Florida Uber Driver (Robert Westlake) had a female pax in the car and her crazy ex jealous boyfriend stalked her and after an Uber (westlake) picked her up he followed them and cut off the driver in a fit of rage and said he was going to kill him(all caught on dashcam). He was hailed a hero for shooting him and saving his and the pax life. I wonder if Uber actually deactivated him?


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Seamus said:


> Remember in 2018 a Florida Uber Driver (Robert Westlake) had a female pax in the car and her crazy ex jealous boyfriend stalked her and after an Uber (westlake) picked her up he followed them and cut off the driver in a fit of rage and said he was going to kill him(all caught on dashcam). He was hailed a hero for shooting him and saving his and the pax life. I wonder if Uber actually deactivated him?


Uber didn't deactivate the guy who got his underage pax a motel room in a snow storm!


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Uber didn't deactivate the guy who got his underage pax a motel room in a snow storm!


They could milk that for good PR.


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## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

TX Uber Ant said:


> He used a Glock 19 with a 33 round mag but chose to use full metal jacket ammo which is why she is still alive today. I rolled with a Glock 19 with the same 33 round mag during Brandon's riots here in Dallas but chose law enforcement type ammo. FMJ is meant to wound but law enforcement ammo is designed to get the job done. If ever they want to follow me home to the suburbs there is 2 AK 47's and three AR15's with 15 thousand rounds of ammo waiting for them.


@Christinebitg


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Seamus said:


> Remember in 2018 a Florida Uber Driver (Robert Westlake) had a female pax in the car and her crazy ex jealous boyfriend stalked her and after an Uber (westlake) picked her up he followed them and cut off the driver in a fit of rage and said he was going to kill him(all caught on dashcam). He was hailed a hero for shooting him and saving his and the pax life. I wonder if Uber actually deactivated him?











Uber driver found justified in deadly shooting of man who threatened him


The State Attorney's office ruled the Uber driver Polk County sheriff's deputies said shot and killed a man who threatened him will not face any charges.




www.wtsp.com





_"Westlake says Uber has allowed him to drive again, but he doesn't plan to go back to full-time. He says he still hopes to one day work in law enforcement. "_


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Uber driver found justified in deadly shooting of man who threatened him
> 
> 
> The State Attorney's office ruled the Uber driver Polk County sheriff's deputies said shot and killed a man who threatened him will not face any charges.
> ...


I'd go into forensics


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I have numerous guns stowed safely
> in my garage.
> But have no interest in carrying one
> while I am driving or out in public.
> ...


I like you posts and most answers..but i live in phila- you chi- both SOS. permits here are easy.. i disagree with you as far as carrying now a days. my permit is expired. i need new one $20 .
now all it takes is 1 time when you need to draw it out..no gun no same your life as , if you sound like a smart guy. we wont worry about deactivation, as if we both pull it out, someone is getting shot.
and uber wont matter anymore..i do agree somewhat with you about no need to carry..but if condoms are free . used them. 
i am sure we both have drivers habits in common. lots of rides and we control are cars..not like the ********'s on youtube


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> I have numerous guns stowed safely
> in my garage.
> But have no interest in carrying one
> while I am driving or out in public.
> ...


All it takes is ONCE . . .
Needing & not having.


Like a spare tire.
Carry it around 
Hope you Never need it !


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Atavar said:


> It is legal but prohibited by Lyft and Uber rules. If a passenger ever reports you or if you ever have to use your firearm you will be permanently deactivated.


And
If you get Murdered you will be " PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED".


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

UberChiefPIT said:


> I read this as, “I have numerous firearms locked up and inaccessible in my home should I ever need to protect my family from strangers who enter my home uninvited, and likewise, I have zero interest in protecting myself from strangers I invite into my car.”


I dont live in a slum and have zero fear of 
someone coming into my house to rob/kill us
The guns are very dangerous toys to me
What I do fear is them falling into the hands 
of someone that doesnt give them 
the respect they deserve and/or
harming innocent people
I'll crack them out when the
zombie apocalypse comes 😉


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

It's not about a slum..its like he said 1 and done. But a gun is never for you as you said they are dangerous..100 % wrong. A gun is a tool. Safely attached to you. The hardest part about carrying . As I did many years is excess size and weight.
To hunt 4- so glad you mentioned about carrying a spare tire..I have an xl. Wheelchair.. spare is at home here do to size of no room in back. Got AAA and cash on me..i am going to.messure the donut and see if i can put it on front floor..with tire no xl..as you cannot get to my back seats


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

bobby747 said:


> I like you posts and most answers..but i live in phila- you chi- both SOS. permits here are easy.. i disagree with you as far as carrying now a days. my permit is expired. i need new one $20 .
> now all it takes is 1 time when you need to draw it out..no gun no same your life as , if you sound like a smart guy. we wont worry about deactivation, as if we both pull it out, someone is getting shot.
> and uber wont matter anymore..i do agree somewhat with you about no need to carry..but if condoms are free . used them.
> i am sure we both have drivers habits in common. lots of rides and we control are cars..not like the ******'s on youtube


If those teachers and administrators and janitors at sandy hook maybe fewer innocent children would have been killed.


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## CowboyNation214 (Aug 31, 2021)

Uberdriver2710 said:


> I has 2 arms.





Boca Ratman said:


> If Florida, it's against the law for employers to not allow firearms in the employees car while at work. AND the law also defines independent contractors as employees and the hiring party as employers , for the purpose of the law. Exceptions to the law are places where guns aren't allowed legally like schools and power plants.
> 
> I'd be surprised if Texas of all places





25rides7daysaweek said:


> I dont live in a slum and have zero fear of
> someone coming into my house to rob/kill us
> The guns are very dangerous toys to me
> What I do fear is them falling into the hands
> ...


I guess a lot of us live in or drive around crappy areas. I def need guns in the neighborhood where I live. To each their own.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

CowboyNation214 said:


> I guess a lot of us live in or drive around crappy areas. I def need guns in the neighborhood where I live. To each their own.


I am right handed but I would want the holster about even with my right chest so I could draw with my left hand and hit anyone in back seat.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> If those teachers and administrators and janitors at sandy hook maybe fewer innocent children would have been killed.


100%


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> I am right handed but I would want the holster about even with my right chest so I could draw with my left hand and hit anyone in back seat.


I'm thinking of a semi automatic 22 caliber with a clip would do just fine.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

CowboyNation214 said:


> I guess a lot of us live in or drive around crappy areas. I def need guns in the neighborhood where I live. To each their own.


Just because I know the law doesn't mean I carry a gun or live in the hood. 😆 🤣 😂 

Besides, felons aremt allowed to own a gun, legally. 😆 🤣


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

TX Uber Ant said:


> @Christinebitg
> View attachment 644489


I sincerely doubt that the type of ammunition loaded into that Glock made any difference.

How many times did you actually discharge that weapon during the time in question?


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Atavar said:


> I think you will find that even in Florida if the employee is using his car for work then for that duration the car becomes company premises and the employer can control weapons possession.


As far as I know, that is not the case. Florida is funny about guns. Several years ago, uber had use agree to New community guidelines, no weapons/ firearms was one of them. Several months later they sent us drivers in FL an email notifying us that we certain constitutionally guaranteed rights that company policy could not override the state's constitution. It also included a link to the FL law I referenced earlier. 

It did not come out and say "Florida drivers can carry guns" but that's what it meant. 

There are two cases I can recall off the top of my head, one in Miami and one in Polk County where an uber driver pulled and fired a gun and did not get deactivated. The one in Miami the driver killed 2 carjackers. In Polk County, the driver killed someone who mistakenly thought his girlfriend or ex girlfriend was on the uber drivers car. There's video online of the later, the drive had a dashcam.


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## CowboyNation214 (Aug 31, 2021)

Boca Ratman said:


> Just because I know the law doesn't mean I carry a gun or live in the hood. 😆 🤣 😂
> 
> Besides, felons aremt allowed to own a gun, legally. 😆 🤣


In Texas I think felons can have one for home protection only. I think.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Jimmy44 said:


> I am right handed but I would want the holster about even with my right chest so I could draw with my left hand and hit anyone in back seat.


I have said this before, a gun is a horrible defense weapon in a car. 
If you don’t believe me try this test. 
Get a couple squirt guns. Give your buddy one and put one in your lap. Let your buddy sit in back. 
You can’t grab your squirt gun until you see his. 
See who gets wet. 
You are much better off in a car with a six cell mag light or other truncheon for a defense weapon. 



Christinebitg said:


> I sincerely doubt that the type of ammunition loaded into that Glock made any difference.
> 
> How many times did you actually discharge that weapon during the time in question?


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Jimmy44 said:


> I'm thinking of a semi automatic 22 caliber with a clip would do just fine.


First off, .22 pistols use magazines, not clips. 
.22 is known to take several well placed hits to stop an attacker.


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## bobby747 (Dec 29, 2015)

Boca Ratman said:


> Just because I know the law doesn't mean I carry a gun or live in the hood. 😆 🤣 😂
> 
> Besides, felons aremt allowed to own a gun, legally. 😆 🤣


Its boca. City place wpb..haha. not rivera beach


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Jimmy44 said:


> If those teachers and administrators and janitors at sandy hook maybe fewer innocent children would have been killed.



Not sure I'd be comfortable with a janitor, teacher or administrator deciding whether or not a kid is a legit threat and whether or not to


bobby747 said:


> Its boca. City place wpb..haha. not rivera beach


I was in Rivera once, 1030-1100pm. pulled over to take a quick leak in a dark parking lot. 

Half way through I hear, POP POP .... BANG, POP POP POP .. 

I ducked and scrambled into my car and gtfo there. Peed all over my leg 😆 🤣 😂


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> I have said this before, a gun is a horrible defense weapon in a car.
> If you don’t believe me try this test.
> Get a couple squirt guns. Give your buddy one and put one in your lap. Let your buddy sit in back.
> You can’t grab your squirt gun until you see his.
> ...


Say WHAT?

Okay, let's use your logic:

"Put your truncheon or six cell mag light in your lap. Give your buddy a gun and have him sit in the back.

You can't grab your truncheon or six cell mag light until you see his gun.

See who gets f***ing shot first."

Don't take a blunt stick or flashlight to a gun fight.

The point of having the gun for your own personal protection, is so that it at LEAST gives you a small chance to kill them before they can kill you. A hidden gun in your left hand, and use your right hand to deflect their gun away from your head, while you shoot with your left. There's a million scenarios here that this could be effective. And an attacker with a gun is just going to be more pissed off if you show them a stick.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

There is no way to effectively defend against a drawn weapon behind you in a car. 
Don’t draw on a drawn gun. 
If someone has the drop on you your best bet is to go along.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> There is no way to effectively defend against a drawn weapon behind you in a car.
> Don’t draw on a drawn gun.
> If someone has the drop on you your best bet is to go along.


My combat experience says otherwise.

Secondly, I keep my gun in my driver door pocket, which is right next to my left leg. I can reach in there and have it out and nobody would even know, no matter where they are sitting.

Your problem is you think someone in this situation, where they are confronted by a gun held to the back of their head by someone seated behind them in a car, has the only choice to quickly and aggressively make a lot of sudden movements to unholster a gun and then display it to the perpetrator. Turn off your television or whatever movie you're envisioning for this situation. This is the fastest way to get dead, even if all you're reaching for is a stick of gum...or as you suggested: a hardened stick.

Someone who's intent is to hold a gun to your head and force you to do something, statistically they also intend to kill you after you've done what they wanted you to do. "Going along" with their plan only leads to your death, in nearly every situation. The people who don't die, generally resisted at the first possible opportunity to do so where they had a chance to save their own life.

Having a gun vs. someone who also has a gun is, statistically, the best way to save your own life in these situations.

Stop giving bad advice. Please. I really want to think you are just joking, especially when you said "people are better off pulling out a hardened stick, and not a gun, vs. someone holding a gun to their head." Please tell me you're just joking.


----------



## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Atavar said:


> If a passenger ever reports you or if you ever have to use your firearm you will be permanently deactivated.


This is apparently not true. Now this driver is a freaking idiot, for multiple reasons, but that's not the point


----------



## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> I sincerely doubt that the type of ammunition loaded into that Glock made any difference.
> 
> How many times did you actually discharge that weapon during the time in question?


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> My combat experience says otherwise.
> 
> Secondly, I keep my gun in my driver door pocket, which is right next to my left leg. I can reach in there and have it out and nobody would even know, no matter where they are sitting.
> 
> ...


In your combat experience you have defended yourself with a handgun from someone in your vehicle who had a handgun already pointed at you?
The only way this will work is if they hesitate and you don’t.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> In your combat experience you have defended yourself with a handgun from someone in your vehicle who had a handgun already pointed at you?
> The only way this will work is if they hesitate and you don’t.


You're not understanding.

What you are suggesting is that the best option for people in this situation, is to respond with less-lethal force than what the attacker is threatening you with.

And that is completely wrong and backwards. You don't stop a threat on your life - any threat - by retaliating with something that will do nothing but increase the threat level against you. You respond with equal or deadlier force against a person who is determined to end your life. Period.

And you sure as hell don't respond by, "Oh, okay. Well, I guess I'm going to do what you tell me to do and then later beg you to spare my life, right before you off me anyways."

So please, I'm asking one more time. Stop advising people to do things that will not only endanger their lives further, but most assuredly will not help prevent the next person from being victimized, too, after you've been killed.

I'm still mindblown that you said people have a better chance of saving their own life by reaching for a hardened stick vs. a gun, rather than their own gun vs. a gun. YHGTBFKM.


----------



## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

CowboyNation214 said:


> In Texas I think felons can have one for home protection only. I think.


Why do you think that?


----------



## GreenSubaru (Oct 31, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Stop giving bad advice. Please. I really want to think you are just joking, especially when you said "people are better off pulling out a hardened stick, and not a gun, vs. someone holding a gun to their head." Please tell me you're just joking.



I'd say most serious drivers of 3+ years are armed. I can't imagine anyone who has done at least 10k rides thinks being armed is a bad idea. Ignore the liberals and their bullshit. The dangerous passenger is 1-in-1000 but it happens for us who put in the long nights. Just 3 days ago I had a drunk in a psychosis claiming he just got out of jail, and he likes to punch cops and murder people. I knew he was full of shit, but he was reacting negatively to every mediation measure I attempted and was escalating the issue no matter what I said so I just started the 'uhuh', 'yeah' routine. 

There's plenty of articles available of what happens to 'side-gig' 'uber drivers'. A mother of 4 was just murdered in Pittsburg because she believed the media and went uber driving, picking up anyone, in any neighborhood.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> You're not understanding.
> 
> What you are suggesting is that the best option for people in this situation, is to respond with less-lethal force than what the attacker is threatening you with.
> 
> ...


You don’t understand. What will get people killed is forcing the issue. 
Some times the best course of action is stalling and being ready for an opportunity. 
When that opportunity presents itself then act without hesitation 
I will say again that trying to draw a gun against a drawn gun will get you killed. 
What we are talking about is not gun vs gun. We are talking about defending against an attacker who already has a weapon deployed and ready to use. This in a situation where you are driving in traffic and you cannot act freely to counter the threat without becoming yourself a threat to innocent people around you. 
Having a gun in and of itself does not make you safe. You must have the time and opportunity to deploy it effectively without endangering others. 
This includes being responsible for where the bullet goes after it passes through your target or if you miss. 
Do you carry your handgun locked and loaded with the safety off so you can deploy it quickly? Do you train and practice your in vehicle defense until it is second nature?
The quarter second it takes you to thumb the safety off is more than enough time for the bad guy to pull the trigger. This doesn’t even take in to account the full seconds it takes you to retrieve and ready your gun and turn around in your seat to aim. 
If you are not taking the time to aim and assess the backdrop you are not dealing with a hazard, you are becoming the hazard. 
Combat experience does not directly apply to civilian defense. In combat you are not so worried about collateral damage. 
In real life on the streets when a stray bullet takes the life of an innocent you are no better than the bad guy.


----------



## jgiun1 (Oct 16, 2017)

GreenSubaru said:


> I'd say most serious drivers of 3+ years are armed. I can't imagine anyone who has done at least 10k rides thinks being armed is a bad idea. Ignore the liberals and their bullshit. The dangerous passenger is 1-in-1000 but it happens for us who put in the long nights. Just 3 days ago I had a drunk in a psychosis claiming he just got out of jail, and he likes to punch cops and murder people. I knew he was full of shit, but he was reacting negatively to every mediation measure I attempted and was escalating the issue no matter what I said so I just started the 'uhuh', 'yeah' routine.
> 
> There's plenty of articles available of what happens to 'side-gig' 'uber drivers'. A mother of 4 was just murdered in Pittsburg because she believed the media and went uber driving, picking up anyone, in any neighborhood.


I agree...been there couple times with drunk nut jobs in the middle of the night


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

TX Uber Ant said:


>


How does that apply?

There is no *deterrent* effect from the type of *ammunition* you have in a weapon. Your intended target can't see what's in your Glock.

You want something that has a deterrent effect? Put a laser sight on that gun. THAT has a deterrent effect.


----------



## CowboyNation214 (Aug 31, 2021)

NauticalWheeler said:


> Why do you think that?


I checked for my mom. She has a felony from 15 years ago and she lives in a bad area. If its been past 5 years since you finished your sentence then you can have one in your home.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> You don’t understand. What will get people killed is forcing the issue.
> Some times the best course of action is stalling and being ready for an opportunity.
> When that opportunity presents itself then act without hesitation
> I will say again that trying to draw a gun against a drawn gun will get you killed.
> ...


I'm done trying to converse with you seriously.

You told people their best weapon of choice when someone has a gun pointed at their head, is a hardened stick. Not a gun themselves. But a hardened stick.

And you're reasoning is that you don't want to anger a "bad guy" more - who's intent is to kill you anyways - by shooting them with your own gun.

And your further reasoning is that when you are about to die, you have to consider the collateral damage of your actions in defense of your own life. Let me tell you something: by shooting an armed carjacker or robber dead, they cannot go on to victimize or murder anyone else. But by "just going along and doing what you're told", you not only get yourself killed, but you display absolutely no consideration for the collateral damage you just caused by allowing that person to go and victimize more people after you...not to mention how much you just emboldened them.

Liberals are the worst people to reason with.


----------



## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

Have a bungee stick in the trunk of my car that can be activated to shoot forward into the back seat with a small co2 cartridge.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

If I have a gun to my head, my first thought would be to hit the gas and find something to crash into.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Disgusted Driver said:


> If I have a gun to my head, my first thought would be to hit the gas and find something to crash into.


"But but but...what about the collateral damage?!?"


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> I'm done trying to converse with you seriously.
> 
> And your further reasoning is that when you are about to die, you have to consider the collateral damage of your actions in defense of your own life.


Yes, absolutely you must always consider collateral damage. When your stray bullet kills that 6 year old girl it is murder, pure and simple.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

UberChiefPIT said:


> "But but but...what about the collateral damage?!?"


LOL, I'm belted, bad guy isn't make contact with an abutment or parked vehicle on the pax front side and hope for the best. I'll let insurance figure out how to deal with the aftermath. It's that or try to discretely shoot them through the seat.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> LOL, I'm belted, bad guy isn't make contact with an abutment or parked vehicle on the pax front side and hope for the best. I'll let insurance figure out how to deal with the aftermath. It's that or try to discretely shoot them through the seat.


So you don’t care about the innocent person you might kill with a stray bullet? 
Insurance isn’t going to keep you out of prison.
You can aim accurately through your seat? You know where all the obstructions in your seat are? I hope you don’t shoot your gas tank.


----------



## Soldiering (Jan 21, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I'm not telling you what to do but looking at it from a purely philosophical point of view. One might prefer to take the risk of deactivation which is not life threatening. Just understand that if you are ever in a traffic stop, disclose that you are carrying and the pax reports it, you will be deactivated. That's a risk that some would consider reasonable.


Ive had that scenario happen too me. The pax kept his mouth shut. Alot of Gubers TOS is garbage. I refuse too alter my life or beliefs for a corporation who is corrupt. Going on 7 years now. Always do the right thing by you an God an he will take care of you.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Soldiering said:


> Ive had that scenario happen too me. The pax kept his mouth shut. Alot of Gubers TOS is garbage. I refuse too alter my life or beliefs for a corporation who is corrupt. Going on 7 years now. Always do the right thing by you an God an he will take care of you.


Why do you continue to generate wealth for a corporation you consider corrupt? You realize you are part of and promoting the corrupt machine? Isn’t feeding the corrupt corporation in and of itself corrupt?
Get a job for an employer you can respect if you feel that way.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> So you don’t care about the innocent person you might kill with a stray bullet?
> Insurance isn’t going to keep you out of prison.
> You can aim accurately through your seat? You know where all the obstructions in your seat are? I hope you don’t shoot your gas tank.


No one goes to prison for a stray bullet that miraculously goes through the body of an attacker, through the foam seat, through 4 separate metal layers, and flies an additional 200 feet, through vinyl siding, through two layers of 1/2” plywood, through Sheetrock, through the toilet bowl tank, and pierces little 6 y/o Susie’s heart while she goes tinkle before bedtime.

It’s pretty much understood that your life was in imminent threat of harm, you defended yourself from that harm, and the only person responsible for the collateral damage is the attacker, who is now dead.

F***ing liberals.

Yea, I’ve resorted to speaking to you like a petulant child, as nobody is taking you seriously at this point.


----------



## Soldiering (Jan 21, 2019)

Atavar said:


> Why do you continue to generate wealth for a corporation you consider corrupt? You realize you are part of and promoting the corrupt machine? Isn’t feeding the corrupt corporation in and of itself corrupt?
> Get a job for an employer you can respect if you feel that way.


I generated 975 in gross income last week. Thats mon too wed. Im ok with that. I may move on at some point. Im a pest control technican by trade an make mucb more doing RS. I dont work for them we are all Independent. I am on vacation now. I may move on this year will see how it goes. I work for God not Guber. He sustains me daily not a mindless corp like Guber.

You gotta take it week by week with these platforms. The week prior too last week I generated 3k in earnings.


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Atavar said:


> So you don’t care about the innocent person you might kill with a stray bullet?
> Insurance isn’t going to keep you out of prison.
> You can aim accurately through your seat? You know where all the obstructions in your seat are? I hope you don’t shoot your gas tank.


It's interesting how having an agenda causes you to interpret things a certain way. Aside from the fact that there are no innocent 6 year olds in harms way when I drive, the likelihood of killing someone with a stray bullet that's lost a lot of velocity is pretty slim. Would I feel terrible if I was the freak case, sure but at any moment my control rods could both snap, sending my car careening into the bus of students killing all of them in a fiery wreck. I don't stay awake wondering about whether the coin will land on it's edge. I would also mention that this isn't Hollywood. If you shoot a gas tank you are probably not going to get more than a puddle.

The bigger question is why you took my post to mean that I would in fact take the through the seat shot. It could just as easily be interpreted as I think I have a better chance with intentionally crashing the car which is actually where my thoughts lie.


----------



## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Atavar said:


> Yes, absolutely you must always consider collateral damage. When your stray bullet kills that 6 year old girl it is murder, pure and simple.


Got any statistics on how often that happens?


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

TX Uber Ant said:


> Got any statistics on how often that happens?


He’ll respond with, “Just once is too much. I’d rather let that robber murder me and go on to murder countless other people - including 6 year old children, than be bothered by the burden of having a magic bullet hit a stray child. I am Captain Virtue, hear me roar!”


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

TX Uber Ant said:


> Got any statistics on how often that happens?


Read the papers. It’s on the news virtually every week.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> Read the papers. It’s on the news virtually every week.


LOL WUT?

It happens every week that an Uber driver gets robbed at gunpoint inside their car, they get into a gun battle like it’s the O.K. Corral, and a 6 y/o girl gets killed by the Uber driver’s stray bullets?

GTFO’ere, Hollywood!


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Disgusted Driver said:


> It's interesting how having an agenda causes you to interpret things a certain way. Aside from the fact that there are no innocent 6 year olds in harms way when I drive, the likelihood of killing someone with a stray bullet that's lost a lot of velocity is pretty slim. Would I feel terrible if I was the freak case, sure but at any moment my control rods could both snap, sending my car careening into the bus of students killing all of them in a fiery wreck. I don't stay awake wondering about whether the coin will land on it's edge. I would also mention that this isn't Hollywood. If you shoot a gas tank you are probably not going to get more than a puddle.
> 
> The bigger question is why you took my post to mean that I would in fact take the through the seat shot. It could just as easily be interpreted as I think I have a better chance with intentionally crashing the car which is actually where my thoughts lie.


You live in fantasy land. 
If you don’t practice often in the range and environment that you plan on using your weapon then you are more of a danger than an asset. 
Do you run drills in your car where you deploy your weapon? If you do not then you are likely to encounter obstacles you had not considered. 
At least once you should fire your gun in an enclosed car with one opposite window open to a safe backdrop. It is more stunning than you think it will be.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> You live in fantasy land.
> If you don’t practice often in the range and environment that you plan on using your weapon then you are more of a danger than an asset.
> Do you run drills in your car where you deploy your weapon? If you do not then you are likely to encounter obstacles you had not considered.
> At least once you should fire your gun in an enclosed car with one opposite window open to a safe backdrop. It is more stunning than you think it will be.


@Disgusted Driver is right: you literally do sit around and worry about “worst-case scenarios”, and let those awful nightmares prevent you from doing anything.

Do you run fire drills in your home? Tornado drills?


----------



## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

Atavar said:


> Read the papers. It’s on the news virtually every week.


I did a quick google search since you were too lazy to provide references and I see roughly 6 children killed by strays in the last 3 months. What you fail to mention is that all of these occurred in the commission of a crime, most of them look like someone spraying bullets around in an attempt to kill an enemy. Not quite what we are talking about when considering shooting someone in the back seat.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> LOL WUT?
> 
> It happens every week that an Uber driver gets robbed at gunpoint inside their car, they get into a gun battle like it’s the O.K. Corral, and a 6 y/o girl gets killed by the Uber driver’s stray bullets?
> 
> GTFO’ere, Hollywood!


It happens often that innocent people are killed by stray gunfire from fights on the street. 

Two minutes of Google 



Redirect Notice











An 8-year-old girl was shot and killed by stray bullet in Chicago | CNN


Police are investigating the death of an 8-year-old girl who was shot and killed by a stray bullet over the weekend in Chicago.




www.google.com













Capitol City Produce deliveryman killed by stray bullet while making stop in Mississippi


A delivery driver working for a Baton Rouge-based produce distributor was caught in a shooting and killed while making a stop in Mississippi.




www.wbrz.com







Redirect Notice











British man killed by stray bullet as he lay in bed in Atlanta


Matthew Willson from Surrey was shot in ‘reckless’ shooting as he was visiting his girlfriend




www.google.com


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> @Disgusted Driver is right: you literally do sit around and worry about “worst-case scenarios”, and let those awful nightmares prevent you from doing anything.
> 
> Do you run fire drills in your home? Tornado drills?


Actually yes, I do. I make sure that my emergency supplies are available and usable. I make sure that all the exits in my home are clear and functional. 
If you don’t do these things then you are not prepared.


----------



## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

Disgusted Driver said:


> If I have a gun to my head, my first thought would be to hit the gas and find something to crash into.


I've thought of that when they are outside the car. As long as I have a clear path forward, there's no way they will have the reflexes to fire before I floor it. Even IF they had the balls to fire.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Actually increasing speed and driving like a maniac until pulled over by police is a valid tactic - if you have the skills to do so without endangering others. 
Without these skills you are just transferring (and multiplying) your risk to others. A pretty cowardly action.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

kdyrpr said:


> I've thought of that when they are outside the car. As long as I have a clear path forward, there's no way they will have the reflexes to fire before I floor it. Even IF they had the balls to fire.


It takes 1/4 of a second to fire a gun. Maybe another second to decide to do it if startled. How fast does your car get going in 3/4 of a second?


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

CowboyNation214 said:


> In Texas I think felons can have one for home protection only. I think.





NauticalWheeler said:


> Why do you think that?





CowboyNation214 said:


> I checked for my mom. She has a felony from 15 years ago and she lives in a bad area. If its been past 5 years since you finished your sentence then you can have one in your home.


This is a good video on this subject. This channel and the primary channel are great resources. I have been watching them and learning from them for years.


----------



## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> How does that apply?
> 
> There is no *deterrent* effect from the type of *ammunition* you have in a weapon. Your intended target can't see what's in your Glock.
> 
> You want something that has a deterrent effect? Put a laser sight on that gun. THAT has a deterrent effect.


Gabby Giffords was shot with 9mm FMJ and if you watched that video you can see the different effects of the two types of ammo. If you ever have to use a gun in a self defense situation there will be very little time to make the decision. Those of us who are trained don't pull a gun unless we intend to use it so things like lasers are useless.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

TX Uber Ant said:


> Gabby Giffords was shot with 9mm FMJ and if you watched that video you can see the different effects of the two types of ammo. If you ever have to use a gun in a self defense situation there will be very little time to make the decision. Those of us who are trained don't pull a gun unless we intend to use it so things like lasers are useless.


Agreed. The first inkling bad guy should have that you are armed should come from the loud report as you pull the trigger. 
A gun is not a deterrent. It is a last resort defense option.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> Agreed. The first inkling bad guy should have that you are armed should come from the loud report as you pull the trigger.
> A gun is not a deterrent. It is a last resort defense option.


Ya, and that “last resort threshold” has been met the moment someone points a gun at you. You grab your gun and pull the trigger, and don’t stop until you know they’re eliminated.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Ya, and that “last resort threshold” has been met the moment someone points a gun at you. You grab your gun and pull the trigger, and don’t stop until you know they’re eliminated.


Except that if they already have the drop on you then going for yours will just get you dead.


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Atavar said:


> Except that if they already have the drop on you then going for yours will just get you dead.


Well ... sure. Duh.
There is NO requirement to draw.
It is not always the best thing to do.
It is merely AN OPTION that I like to have.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> Well ... sure. Duh.
> There is NO requirement to draw.
> It is not always the best thing to do.
> It is merely AN OPTION that I like to have.


Agreed. 
When someone has the drop on you leave your weapon in concealment and wait for a better chance when they’re distracted. Then act without hesitation.


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Atavar said:


> Yes, absolutely you must always consider collateral damage. When your stray bullet kills that 6 year old girl it is murder, pure and simple.


I'm betting the lawyer pleas it down to
reckless homicide but she is still dead
And if you live you still get


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> Except that if they already have the drop on you then going for yours will just get you dead.


This was already stated several posts ago. I’m glad to see you’re actually absorbing some of this lesson today.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> This was already stated several posts ago. I’m glad to see you’re actually absorbing some of this lesson today.


Smh


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> Smh


I’m still wondering why you’d think responding with a hardened stick from the driver’s seat is a much more reasonable and lifesaving effort. LOL


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

TX Uber Ant said:


> Gabby Giffords was shot with 9mm FMJ and if you watched that video you can see the different effects of the two types of ammo.


And how did anyone know what the ammunition was???

Sure, you can do more damage to a person (and make it less likely you'll hit a bystander) with the right ammo.

But there's no way that it's a DETERRENT.

You want a deterrent, get a laser site mounted. But that's not going to make a difference in the scenario we're talking about -- an Uber driver with a gun at his or her head, held back a passenger sitting behind them.


----------



## TX Uber Ant (Aug 24, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> And how did anyone know what the ammunition was???
> 
> Sure, you can do more damage to a person (and make it less likely you'll hit a bystander) with the right ammo.
> 
> ...


So let me make sure I am understanding you correctly. You want to point a laser at someone who is has a gun to your head?


----------



## Merc49 (Apr 30, 2019)

A gun is like a parachute, if you need one, and don't have one, chances are high you'll never need one again.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Say WHAT?
> 
> Okay, let's use your logic:
> 
> ...


Ever since the covid


Soldiering said:


> I generated 975 in gross income last week. Thats mon too wed. Im ok with that. I may move on at some point. Im a pest control technican by trade an make mucb more doing RS. I dont work for them we are all Independent. I am on vacation now. I may move on this year will see how it goes. I work for God not Guber. He sustains me daily not a mindless corp like Guber.
> 
> You gotta take it week by week with these platforms. The week prior too last week I generated 3k in earnings.


Would you please screenshot your 3000 dollar week.
I am pretty hard core and have not hit 2000 in years.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)




----------



## Soldiering (Jan 21, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ever since the covid
> 
> Would you please screenshot your 3000 dollar week.
> I am pretty hard core and have not hit 2000 in years.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


>


Hey everyone! Look at the guy who didn't even watch the video! Yep, it's @Atavar.

At no point in that video does it say, "If someone is pointing a gun at you, a knife is a better self defense weapon than a gun."

Literally never.

The part where they demonstrate that a knife is better, is where the driver is getting physically attacked from someone who lunges at him from outside the vehicle and across the passenger vehicle, or through the driver's side window. Again, physically assaulted. _NOT_ merely pointing a gun at the driver. But physically assaulting the driver in close quarters.

Watch the sh*t you link before linking it. You make yourself look even more petulantly childish. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Or a hardened stick, as you originally suggested.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Soldiering said:


> View attachment 645086
> View attachment 645087
> 
> View attachment 645086
> View attachment 645087


That's more in line with reality in 2022.
That's what I do on full 7 days 1200 - 1700 but 2000 just out of my reach.
Thanks for sharing and keep up the good work !


----------



## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

Atavar said:


> It takes 1/4 of a second to fire a gun. Maybe another second to decide to do it if startled. How fast does your car get going in 3/4 of a second?


Several Feet at least! Enough for me to get out of there alive with my car and possessions. Look, F#%#K these criminal monsters. You can give up if you like.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

TX Uber Ant said:


> So let me make sure I am understanding you correctly. You want to point a laser at someone who is has a gun to your head?


So let me see if I understand *you* correctly.

You think that the type of ammunition you put in your Glock is a deterrent, even though your intended target can't see actually what type of bullets you've got in there. Is that right?

But you don't think putting a laser sight on that Glock is going to have any effect on their behavior.

The experience of my Significant Other"s brother, a retired police officer in a major city, indicates otherwise.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> So let me see if I understand *you* correctly.
> 
> You think that the type of ammunition you put in your Glock is a deterrent, even though your intended target can't see actually what type of bullets you've got in there. Is that right?
> 
> ...


How often do police go shining laser-equipped guns at people?

Never happens. In the movies, ya. But it doesn’t happen.

They’re not a deterrent.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> So let me see if I understand *you* correctly.
> 
> You think that the type of ammunition you put in your Glock is a deterrent, even though your intended target can't see actually what type of bullets you've got in there. Is that right?
> 
> ...


How this go from you saying the type of bullet Gabby Giffords was shot with didn't make a difference in why she survived the shooting to the type of bullet being being a deterrent?


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> How often do police go shining laser-equipped guns at people?
> 
> Never happens. In the movies, ya. But it doesn’t happen.


That's not what my Significant Other's brother says. He was a policeman for 30 years.

What he says is that you get INSTANT compliance when you light them up with the laser sight.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> That's not what my Significant Other's brother says. He was a policeman for 30 years.
> 
> What he says is that you get INSTANT compliance when you light them up with the laser sight.


LOL it’s the gun that gets the compliance, not the laser. The target can’t even see it unless the cop is shining the laser in the persons eyes, which they are absolutely not supposed to do. And I have a huge problem with cops who are using their gun with the laser to gain compliance. That’s a huge no-no. You don’t draw a firearm pointed at somebody with the intent to gain compliance. Draw a firearm pointed at someone with the intent to shoot, Not merely pointing laser at them.


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

What police force supplies their force with laser sights for their handguns? 😆 🤣 😂 

Maybe the swat team with rifles bit almost no police force has laser sights on their pistols .


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Boca Ratman said:


> What police force supplies their force with laser sights for their handguns? 😆 🤣 😂
> 
> Maybe the swat team with rifles bit almost no police force has laser sights on their pistols .


I wondered the same thing, but without knowing for certain which department said “30 year police retiree who shines gunsight lasers in eyes for compliance” they served on, I was going to leave that alone.

Gunsight lasers are for tactically engaging targets at range in the dark. Completely not how handguns are used by police. But who knows?


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> LOL it’s the gun that gets the compliance, not the laser.


Well, to apply your same logic, then enhanced ammo doesn't get compliance either. At least the perp can SEE the laser.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> What police force supplies their force with laser sights for their handguns?


They allowed (and still do) their officers to purchase and install laser sights on their service weapons.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Gunsight lasers are for tactically engaging targets at range in the dark. Completely not how handguns are used by police.


Bullshit. They're for aiming weapons at any range, any time of day or night.

Since we're talking at night though... wouldn't you say that police work is more dangerous at night? I would.


----------



## BigDaddy919 (11 mo ago)

Atavar said:


> It is legal but prohibited by Lyft and Uber rules. If a passenger ever reports you or if you ever have to use your firearm you will be permanently deactivated.


I will neither confirm, nor deny, having a conc3aled w3apons p3rmit. However, unless the pax is armed, a knife, blackjack, or mace might be equally helpful. (And easier to clean up).


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> Well, to apply your same logic, then enhanced ammo doesn't get compliance either. At least the perp can SEE the laser.


Yikes, what a horrible take. I don’t think anyone here made an assertion that ammunition type is a visual deterrent to perps.

I think what you misinterpreted was the assertion that ammo type is a physical deterrent. As in, FMJ’s have a higher chance of merely passing through a target and causing minimal damage, allowing for the target to not only survive, but likely not even realize they’ve been shot until several moments later due to adrenaline and delayed shock.

Hollow point, on the other hand, expand upon hitting soft tissue and continue to expand, often times fragmenting inside the body. Such an action causes massive physical trauma through shredding, tearing, and slicing skin, muscle, organs, and bones. This will instantly immobilize a target due to not only the instant loss of blood to the muscle and organs, but also due to severing nerve groups. Instant systemic shock trauma. Target is deterred and immobilized - not by choice - but because brain signals don’t reach the muscle groups, bones, and organs necessary to continue being mobile and defiant/resistant. Death is typically far more imminent with this type of ammunition, which is why NATO uses FMJ type bullets, as it’s considered more humane in war to only injure to immobilize, and not wound to kill.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> Bullshit. They're for aiming weapons at any range, any time of day or night.
> 
> Since we're talking at night though... wouldn't you say that police work is more dangerous at night? I would.


lol no. You put a laser on a handgun to look cool, and because you have horrendous aim. If you need one on a handgun for these reasons, you shouldn’t be a police officer, as the need to fire a handgun under duress requires intense training for aim and focus, that a laser won’t help with. Handguns also became erratically inaccurate after short distances - as little as only 10 feet. You can’t sight in a laser to account for this.

Lasers are not for pinpointing where your shots will land, but rather, to show the user the general “area” your gun is pointed at. And since handguns are for short distances, if you’re having difficulty knowing the general area your handgun is aimed at from a short distance: I reiterate, you have no business being a police officer (or someone who regularly carries a handgun for work).

But tell us more about your cop friend who regularly sought compliance by pulling out their gun and using their laser to gain compliance. I would love to see the training slides that suggest this as a valid - or even a lawful use of deadly force. 🙄


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

I actually have a red laser built in to the grips on my 45acp 1911. It is unobtrusive and does not interfere with holstering. 
I have found that it has very limited usefulness as a laser is hard to spot in daylight. The best use I have found for it is training to show me how I move the aim point when firing. 
For a carry or defense gun you need to get proficient using your iron sights. You do not want your last words to be “Wait while I change my batteries”


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Atavar said:


> It takes 1/4 of a second to fire a gun. Maybe another second to decide to do it if startled. How fast does your car get going in 3/4 of a second?


Do you know how hard it is to hit a 12 x12 paper target at 15 feet with a handgun? Some people practice constantly or are just natural good shots, but MOST will find it very hard to hit one time out of six. Standing there, feet planted, squinting with one eye and concentrating ... it's hard.
Now, do you know how hard it is to hit a MOVING TARGET, when you are scared? Pissed off? Drugged out? 
You got a pretty good chance of escaping injury from a handgun if you're running away.
Odds are with you.

Most days I carry a .22 mini mag five shot revolver. The barrel is less than an inch long. At ten feet I have NO idea where that pellet is gonna go. 
Some days I carry a .380 Walther PPKS ... it's a little better, but not much.

The TV shows that show someone drawing, firing one shot from the hip and the target drops without moving again ... fiction. It doesn't go like that.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> Do you know how hard it is to hit a 12 x12 paper target at 15 feet with a handgun? Some people practice constantly or are just natural good shots, but MOST will find it very hard to hit one time out of six. Standing there, feet planted, squinting with one eye and concentrating ... it's hard.
> Now, do you know how hard it is to hit a MOVING TARGET, when you are scared? Pissed off? Drugged out?
> You got a pretty good chance of escaping injury from a handgun if you're running away.
> Odds are with you.
> ...


I practice frequently and can reliably hit within 3 inches at 20 yards with my carry gun. This is at a range where I can choose my timing and control my breathing. 
If I do the same thing immediately after a 30 yard sprint when I’m breathing hard my results are more like within 10 inches. 
You are right and when the adrenaline is flowing accuracy will go away and you’ll not make good choices.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Atavar said:


> I practice frequently and can reliably hit within 3 inches at 20 yards with my carry gun. This is at a range where I can choose my timing and control my breathing.
> If I do the same thing immediately after a 30 yard sprint when I’m breathing hard my results are more like within 10 inches.
> You are right and when the adrenaline is flowing accuracy will go away and you’ll not make good choices.


Like most people, I dont do that kind of training and practice.
I practice drawing, sometimes.
But ... I figure if I'm 20 yards away I'm not shooting ... I'M RUNNING.
Especially with that .22
That one, I'm gonna need to screw it in the targets ear to hit anything.
But it is NOISY. I mean, it hurts to touch one off.
And, I figure ... better than nothing.

Most fire fights are very, very close in.
It's a single action pistol, very small, so it's cumbersome and not easy to fire.
I practice (dry) firing it, but not target.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

UberBastid said:


> Like most people, I dont do that kind of training and practice.
> I practice drawing, sometimes.
> But ... I figure if I'm 20 yards away I'm not shooting ... I'M RUNNING.
> Especially with that .22
> ...


Ya, all things that additionally lend nothing but absurdity to the suggestion that cops use pistol-mounted lasers. There’s just no tactical use in their profession.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> Like most people, I dont do that kind of training and practice.
> I practice drawing, sometimes.
> But ... I figure if I'm 20 yards away I'm not shooting ... I'M RUNNING.
> Especially with that .22
> ...


Even a .22 is better than a pointy stick. I sometime carry a .25acp, probably the most vilified caber there is. I figure that with five of those tiny holes in him I can run faster than he can. 
The problem with .22 rimfire is that it is not reliable and prone to misfires. The last thing you want to hear in a firefight is your gun going “click”.


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Atavar said:


> Even a .22 is better than a pointy stick. I sometime carry a .25acp, probably the most vilified caber there is. I figure that with five of those tiny holes in him I can run faster than he can.
> The problem with .22 rimfire is that it is not reliable and prone to misfires. The last thing you want to hear in a firefight is your gun going “click”.


Yea, I agree about rimfire misfires.
But, this is a 22 mini-mag, and hollow point (which I know has nothing to do with misfire), and I buy the most premium I can to load it when I carry it. Not plinking ammo for sure. Hard to find and expensive. 
I said to my gunsmith once that maybe I should hunt for a bigger caliber small gun to carry and he said that "That 22 mini-mag is a nasty round that does every bit as much damage to ballistic gel as a .380 up close and personal." He went on to explain that I wouldn't have the range or accuracy, but, a foot away from target .... "I wouldn't want to face that little pistol. It will rock your world."
And, like you said, it's better than nothing.
I don't know how many times I talk to people who sniff at my little pistol and I ask 'what do you carry'. 
"Oh, I got a 1911 .45."
"I like my .357 six inch barrel."

"Really?" says I. "Lemme see it."
"Oh, its home on the night stand. Too heavy to carry. Uncomfortable. I won't need it today."

Uh huh. 
So, you unarmed, and I got my little pea shooter ...
uh huh.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

I like to play with the Lazer when I'm tripping.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> Yea, I agree about rimfire misfires.
> But, this is a 22 mini-mag, and hollow point (which I know has nothing to do with misfire), and I buy the most premium I can to load it when I carry it. Not plinking ammo for sure. Hard to find and expensive.
> I said to my gunsmith once that maybe I should hunt for a bigger caliber small gun to carry and he said that "That 22 mini-mag is a nasty round that does every bit as much damage to ballistic gel as a .380 up close and personal." He went on to explain that I wouldn't have the range or accuracy, but, a foot away from target .... "I wouldn't want to face that little pistol. It will rock your world."
> And, like you said, it's better than nothing.
> ...


Yes. .22wmr is a very under rated cartridge.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> I like to play with the Lazer when I'm tripping.


You wave your gun around when you’re high? I don’t want to be anywhere near you.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

My wife and I were fresh married ... 38 years ago.
She was a law abiding, straight Catholic school girl, when I met her. I was an outlaw. Not a criminal, but an outlaw. Yea, there's a difference.

I promised her I'd teach her how to hunt.
But, first "ya gotta get a hunting license."
She looked up all the rules for getting a hunting license. Needed hours of training, a safety certificate all kinds of shit. She's down the rabbit hole, taking notes and thinking about all the education and certificates she'd need. 
I said, "No problem baby. Lets go take care of that."

We went to a biker bar I knew that served shots that were four ounces. It was about noon, I guess. We ordered up. She liked Tequila .. and Tequila liked her. LoL
She was all wide-eyed and nervous. 
After the first couple rounds she's loosened up and partying. Shooting pool and talking smack. Having a good time with everyone. LoL.
About four hours later I said, "Lets go get your hunting license." All slurred she says "Yea ... lets DO that."

We go into this hardware store across the street and she bellies up to the counter and says "I wanna buy a hunting license, and a box of 270." The little girl behind the counter says, "Sure, do you have a hunters safety certificate?" Wifey says, "No. I didn't need to have one last year when I bought one. And I didn't need one the year before that when the US Army gave me my first weapon.''

Little girl says, "Yes maam. I guess not.'' and filled out the paperwork, and she bought a license. And a box of ammo of a caliber that I didn't own. 

I remember thinking "Good thing I married this gal. I like her a lot." Back then it took some Tequila. Now, she's like that all the time. Yea I did that.

We went back across the street and drank some more. God Bless America.
Alcohol and gun powder.
Smells like freedom.


.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Atavar said:


> There is no way to effectively defend against a drawn weapon behind you in a car.
> Don’t draw on a drawn gun.
> If someone has the drop on you your best bet is to go along.


Defend !?!?

I JUST WANT TO TAKE THE MOTHER ****ER WITH ME !


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> I think what you misinterpreted was the assertion that ammo type is a physical deterrent. As in, FMJ’s have a higher chance of merely passing through a target and causing minimal damage, allowing for the target to not only survive, but likely not even realize they’ve been shot until several moments later due to adrenaline and delayed shock.


I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "deterrent."

If you've discharged a weapon with hollow point bullets in it, deterrence is long since passed by in favor of hurting the intended target.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing. "Keep shooting them until they stop doing what you started shooting them for."


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> You put a laser on a handgun to look cool, and because you have horrendous aim.


Complete hogwash.

Anybody can aim a handgun better if you light up the target with a laser site. Anybody.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Atavar said:


> I have found that it has very limited usefulness as a laser is hard to spot in daylight.


If that's true, you managed to find a shitty laser. Even my cats can find a laser during the daytime.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

kdyrpr said:


> Have a bungee stick in the trunk of my car that can be activated to shoot forward into the back seat with a small co2 cartridge.
> View attachment 644765


You MOVED THE DOOR MAT IN FRONT OF MY DOOR !


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Christinebitg said:


> If that's true, you managed to find a shitty laser. Even my cats can find a laser during the daytime.


Cats are ... well, alien.
NOT of this planet.

I watched two of them sitting side by side.
Looking at me.
Looking.
I swear I heard one of them say, "We could kill him and take over."
The other one said, "But then, who'd open the cans of cat food?"

Diabolical. Cunning. Smart. 
NOT a good combination.

Cats scare me.
But, I'm a Leo. So I can hear them thinking.


.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> If that's true, you managed to find a shitty laser. Even my cats can find a laser during the daytime.


My laser is a Crimson trace. One of the premier laser brands out there. Take your cats outside in the sunshine and try your laser from 15 yards away and tell me how quick it is to spot.


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## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Atavar said:


> You wave your gun around when you’re high? I don’t want to be anywhere near you.


This is my rifle 
This is my gun
One is for killing 
One is for fun! 

I wave it around every opportunity I get! 😆 🤣 😂


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> This is my rifle
> This is my gun
> One is for killing
> One is for fun!
> ...


Smh


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> I watched two of them sitting side by side.
> Looking at me.
> Looking.
> I swear I heard one of them say, "We could kill him and take over."
> The other one said, "But then, who'd open the cans of cat food?"


We have four of the adorable little devils. Two purebreds and two we adopted from underneath our next door neighbor's house.

One of those last two has been with us all but a couple of months of her life. She's amazingly intelligent.

She has learned that if you turn the handle at the bathtub, water comes out of the spigot over there... Fortunately I think the handle is beyond her physical capabilities. That's a good thing, because she likes to play with the drain plug and it closes then.

She knows how to open kitchen cabinet doors. That kind of stuff.

Not a week goes by that she doesn't show me that she understands about half of what I say to her in English. Of course being a cat, it could be more and she's just not letting on.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> If that's true, you managed to find a shitty laser. Even my cats can find a laser during the daytime.


Ah yes. Cats. Felines. Nature’s mammal with the best vision, night or day.

If they can see it, cops should definitely be using them. 🤣


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

When I was in grade school, till I graduated high school I was owned by a male yellow tabby.
Some neighborhood bad boys had tied a rope around his neck and were throwing him (as a kitten) in front of cars, trying to get him killed.
I interrupted their behavior, and took quite a beating. I brought him home, both of us beaten and bruised. Mom patched us both up - and we healed. We were both young. 
It was Christmas Eve. I named him Nick for St Nicolaus. 
We were buddies till he died of old age.

He grew up to be a pretty good sized cat, and he was a male, and he was fully equipped. Neutering makes them less aggressive. He was willing to fight.

There was a German Shepherd in the neighborhood that really didn't like him.
One day I look out the window to see Nick loping down the middle of the street with the dog in hot pursuit. As the distance between them closed, when the dog was in _just_ the right spot, Nick stopped on a dime, whirled around and jumped in the air. The dog tried to stop or change course, but couldn't.
Nick landed on his face. Dug claws into the back of this head, started chewing on an ear and raking his face from eyes to snout with powerful back legs.
The dog is screaming. Trying to shake Nick off. But he hung on and continued the punishment for at least a full minute.
Nick jumped off about six feet away and watched the dog. His tail was flipping wildly. I know he was saying, "Want more dog? Come and get it."
When Nick jumped off, the LAST thing that dog wanted was more. He ran off crying, and bleeding. It was brutal.
Tough lesson learned.

That dog never messed with another cat again. Not Nick or anybody else.


----------



## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

Atavar said:


> Who is stupid enough to announce on a public forum that they are breaking a rule that can get them permanently deactivated?
> If you think you are anonymous and safe on the internet you are foolish as well.


Please tell me who I am then


----------



## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

Disgusted Driver said:


> I'm not telling you what to do but looking at it from a purely philosophical point of view. One might prefer to take the risk of deactivation which is not life threatening. Just understand that if you are ever in a traffic stop, disclose that you are carrying and the pax reports it, you will be deactivated. That's a risk that some would consider reasonable.


You don't have to declare unless asked. They already know by your Drivers License.


----------



## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

TX Uber Ant said:


> @Christinebitg
> View attachment 644489


OMG, I know that @Chrisinebitg from my twitter feed, oh shit, I'm outed now!  Small freakin world


----------



## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

Atavar said:


> There is no way to effectively defend against a drawn weapon behind you in a car.
> Don’t draw on a drawn gun.
> If someone has the drop on you your best bet is to go along.


In a static environment, or the movies, _maybe_. That usually didn't work out for anyone in any 80's horror movie though. In real life: WTF. Drug users and thugs aren't exactly as skilled as Jacki Chan. Some people are trained to overcome disparity of force and being outnumbered. Others learned self-defense on the street. Regardless, it's better to be shot in a crowded area than a remote location given _someone_ will call for an ambulance...if the thug even manages to hit you...this isn't the movies.



Atavar said:


> You don’t understand. ....Combat experience does not directly apply to civilian defense. In combat you are not so worried about collateral damage.
> ...


Seriously? Seriously? WTF.



Atavar said:


> You live in fantasy land.
> If you don’t practice often in the range and environment that you plan on using your weapon then you are more of a danger than an asset.
> Do you run drills in your car where you deploy your weapon? If you do not then you are likely to encounter obstacles you had not considered.
> At least once you should fire your gun in an enclosed car with one opposite window open to a safe backdrop. It is more stunning than you think it will be.


From those and other posts I get the feeling you're the type of person that goes to the circus and tells the lion trainer, "You're doing it wrong. I have a cat and..."

And says to the Civil Engineer. "You're doing it wrong. I built a popsicle-stick bread bowl in kindergarten and..."

And to the pro ball player, "You don't know what you're doing. I played ball in the schoolyard and at age 7 knew more than you."

Telling a guy with military training it doesn't apply to a situation you've never been in, have no training for, when you don't know what his training is, etc...not brilliant. His training is going to be a lot more expansive and appropriate for a high-stress situation than you or anyone else going to the range and thinking "that's training." If and when you get attacked by a cardboard cutout of a bad guy let us all know.


----------



## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

CowboyNation214 said:


> Just wondering how many drivers don't arm themselves while driving. I stay with a firearm even though I may not have time to pull it while someone is in the backseat.


Never have and never will. I have never held one or shot one before and thats the way it will stay till the day I die.


----------



## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> Seriously? Seriously? WTF.
> 
> 
> From those and other posts I get the feeling you're the type of person that goes to the circus and tells the lion trainer, "You're doing it wrong. I have a cat and..."
> ...





WI_Hedgehog said:


> Seriously? Seriously? WTF.
> 
> 
> From those and other posts I get the feeling you're the type of person that goes to the circus and tells the lion trainer, "You're doing it wrong. I have a cat and..."
> ...


My training was free, Ranger Unit and two SF units


----------



## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> If that's true, you managed to find a shitty laser. Even my cats can find a laser during the daytime.


Maybe he should buy a green laser!


----------



## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

Atavar said:


> I actually have a red laser built in to the grips on my 45acp 1911. It is unobtrusive and does not interfere with holstering.
> I have found that it has very limited usefulness as a laser is hard to spot in daylight. The best use I have found for it is training to show me how I move the aim point when firing.
> For a carry or defense gun you need to get proficient using your iron sights. You do not want your last words to be “Wait while I change my batteries”


Even AirSoft lasers can be seen in daylight...maybe that Toys-R-Us special from 15 years ago should be thrown away.



Christinebitg said:


> If that's true, you managed to find a shitty laser. Even my cats can find a laser during the daytime.





MyLicPlateSaysUber said:


> Maybe he should buy a green laser!


That is funny. 

A laser on a handgun in a self-defense situation is likely as useful as cracking an egg on a hot sidewalk and asking the thug if they want breakfast. (actually the egg would probably be more useful)


----------



## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> Even AirSoft lasers can be seen in daylight...maybe that Toys-R-Us special from 15 years ago should be thrown away.
> 
> That is funny.
> 
> A laser on a handgun in a self-defense situation is as useful as cracking an egg on a hot sidewalk and asking the thug if they want breakfast. (actually the egg would probably be more useful)


That's what my SF instructor told me too, at the range. I removed it from my M9 shortly after.


----------



## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

MyLicPlateSaysUber said:


> That's what my SF instructor told me too, at the range. I removed it from my M9 shortly after.


I'm not speaking for everyone because every situation is different, but in my experience lasers slow down target acquisition.
1.) Try finding and tracking a dot on a moving target when using a handgun.
1a.) In a stressful situation.
2.) With the added weight.
3.) And any number of possible malfunctions and/or operator error.
4.) For a distance under 30 feet / 10 yards / 10 meters.

Can lasers be helpful in certain situations? Of course.
On handguns? Maybe.
For civilian self-defense? My _opinion_ is a laser probably creates more problems than it solves, though that's based on _my _experience and _my _training, and _your_ experience and level of training will be different.


----------



## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

MyLicPlateSaysUber said:


> OMG, I know that @Chrisinebitg from my twitter feed, oh shit, I'm outed now!  Small freakin world


I don't know who's on your Twitter feed, but I'm not on Twitter.


----------



## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> I'm not speaking for everyone because every situation is different, but in my experience lasers slow down target acquisition.
> 1.) Try finding and tracking a dot on a moving target when using a handgun.
> 1a.) In a stressful situation.
> 2.) With the added weight.
> ...


Yes. We only used lasers on our weapons for one purpose: to see under NVG where our general area of suppressive fire will land. And our lasers were infrared, so they were only visible under the ANVIS goggles we wore - not visible to naked eye. Lasers are nothing more than a distraction under normal light conditions (distraction more so for the user), and at night are only good for "generally" knowing where your line of fire is aimed. You can only sight a laser into a single precise distance, for any firearm. If you sight them in for 10 feet, it's not accurate at 9.5 feet or 10.5 feet. Light travels in a perfectly straight line, and bullets do not.

Tracer rounds every 5 shots were more useful than lasers.


----------



## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> I don't know who's on your Twitter feed, but I'm not on Twitter.


Ok, it might have been concealedcarry.com


----------



## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Yes. We only used lasers on our weapons for one purpose: to see under NVG where our general area of suppressive fire will land. And our lasers were infrared, so they were only visible under the ANVIS goggles we wore - not visible to naked eye. Lasers are nothing more than a distraction under normal light conditions (distraction more so for the user), and at night are only good for "generally" knowing where your line of fire is aimed. You can only sight a laser into a single precise distance, for any firearm. If you sight them in for 10 feet, it's not accurate at 9.5 feet or 10.5 feet. Light travels in a perfectly straight line, and bullets do not.
> 
> Tracer rounds every 5 shots were more useful than lasers.


I have those in 9mm too


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## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

format C:\


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## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Yes. We only used lasers on our weapons for one purpose: to see under NVG where our general area of suppressive fire will land. And our lasers were infrared, so they were only visible under the ANVIS goggles we wore - not visible to naked eye. Lasers are nothing more than a distraction under normal light conditions (distraction more so for the user), and at night are only good for "generally" knowing where your line of fire is aimed. You can only sight a laser into a single precise distance, for any firearm. If you sight them in for 10 feet, it's not accurate at 9.5 feet or 10.5 feet. Light travels in a perfectly straight line, and bullets do not.
> 
> Tracer rounds every 5 shots were more useful than lasers.


I learned I can not fire my 9mm tracer rounds at the indoor range. If you have a foid card I can sell them to you.n They light up the country sky! lol


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

MyLicPlateSaysUber said:


> I learned I can not fire my 9mm tracer rounds at the indoor range. If you have a foid card I can sell them to you.n They light up the country sky! lol


They do  now imagine what flammable rounds look like under ANVIS. It’s BRIGHT!


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## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

Indeed they are, I have some rubber bullets with pepperspray in them too


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## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

Christinebitg said:


> I don't know who's on your Twitter feed, but I'm not on Twitter.


I was banned so I can't tell you now, are you on the concealedcarry site?


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## MyLicPlateSaysUber (Apr 2, 2019)

UberChiefPIT said:


> They do  now imagine what flammable rounds look like under ANVIS. It’s BRIGHT!


Sounds just like my AN/PVS-7's


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

UberChiefPIT said:


> Yes. We only used lasers on our weapons for one purpose: to see under NVG where our general area of suppressive fire will land. And our lasers were infrared, so they were only visible under the ANVIS goggles we wore - not visible to naked eye. Lasers are nothing more than a distraction under normal light conditions (distraction more so for the user), and at night are only good for "generally" knowing where your line of fire is aimed. You can only sight a laser into a single precise distance, for any firearm. If you sight them in for 10 feet, it's not accurate at 9.5 feet or 10.5 feet. Light travels in a perfectly straight line, and bullets do not.
> 
> Tracer rounds every 5 shots were more useful than lasers.


I seriously don't think that driving for Uber has a lot of similarities to the situation you're describing. As interesting as it was to read about.

And I disagree with your statement that a laser sight is a distraction under "normal light conditions." I assume you're referring to daylight with sunny weather.

The point of lighting up someone with a laser sight is not "target acquisition." The point is that you are showing _them_ where the bullet is going to go.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

MyLicPlateSaysUber said:


> You don't have to declare unless asked. They already know by your Drivers License.


Not true in every state.
Definitely not true in Constitutional Carry States.


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

Christinebitg said:


> ....The point of lighting up someone with a laser sight is not "target acquisition." The point is that you are showing _them_ where the bullet is going to go.


If they're staring down the barrel of a loaded .45, I'm pretty sure they already know where the bullet is going to go...





(note that other than lyrics, the song is unrelated)


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

MyLicPlateSaysUber said:


> I learned I can not fire my 9mm tracer rounds at the indoor range. If you have a foid card I can sell them to you.n They light up the country sky! lol


The floors at indoor gun ranges are covered in unburnt powder. That is the main reason tracers and steel core bullets are not permitted at indoor ranges. A spark from steel core ammo can ignite a fire. Tracers should be obvious. 

When I took my Range Safety officer course they took us into an indoor range and swept the floor on half the range into a pile. With half the floor swept you could look down range and see the difference in floor color. It was amazing how much unburnt powder built up in 2 weeks. They took the powder outside and ignited it to show it was truly unburnt powder.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> If they're staring down the barrel of a loaded .45, I'm pretty sure they already know where the bullet is going to go...


Yes, if you're that close, that's significant deterrent.


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

FLKeys said:


> The floors at indoor gun ranges are covered in unburnt powder....




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/bcxtih


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> The point of lighting up someone with a laser sight is not "target acquisition." The point is that you are showing _them_ where the bullet is going to go.


Absolutely wrong. A firearm is not for intimidation. All that is going to do is get you killed.
When you shine your pretty red dot at someone their buddy you didn’t see is going to shoot you in the back of your head.
If you have to draw your firearm pull the trigger. If you don’t have to fire then you don’t need the gun.
By the time Bad Guy realizes that you have a firearm he should already know where the bullet went.


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

Christinebitg said:


> Yes, if you're that close, that's significant deterrent.


Your legs are a deterrent....


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> They took the powder outside and ignited it to show it was truly unburnt powder.


I'll bet THAT was impressive.

The Hagley Museum in Wilmington, Delaware, is the original DuPont powder works, where they made black powder starting in 1803. The buildings where they ground up the mixture (charcoal, sulfur, and saltpeter) have three stone walls, and wooden blowout wall that faces the Brandywine River. The roofs are also lightweight and slope toward the river.

I'm sure you didn't want to be there when one of those buildings went up.

What I'm surprised by is the cajones on the guys sweeping up that black powder in the range you're talking about. One spark and...


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> And I disagree with your statement that a laser sight is a distraction under "normal light conditions." I assume you're referring to daylight with sunny weather.


Try this. Go out to the range with a buddy. You aim with your laser and let him aim with iron sights at 15 yards.
See who gets more shots on target in two seconds.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Atavar said:


> Absolutely wrong. A firearm is not for intimidation. All that is going to do is get you killed.
> When you shine your pretty red dot at someone their buddy you didn’t see is going to shoot you in the back of your head.
> If you have to draw your firearm pull the trigger. If you don’t have to fire then you don’t need the gun.
> By the time Bad Guy realizes that you have a firearm he should already know where the bullet went.


We're talking about two different things.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> We're talking about two different things.


I thought we were talking about defense with a firearm.


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

Atavar said:


> Try this. Go out to the range with a buddy. You aim with your laser and let him aim with iron sights at 15 yards.
> See who gets more shots on target in two seconds.


If you need a laser to get shots on target at 15 yards you're going to get your a-- handed to you by the guy with iron sights.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Atavar said:


> Try this. Go out to the range with a buddy. You aim with your laser and let him aim with iron sights at 15 yards.
> See who gets more shots on target in two seconds.


Try it yourself. He'll get off more rounds. But if he's more than about 10 or 15 feet away, I'll have more hits where it counts.


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

Christinebitg said:


> Try it yourself. He'll get off more rounds. But if he's more than about 10 or 15 feet away, I'll have more hits where it counts.


Uber drivers talking about shots on a Friday...yet not exactly what I expected...


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Christinebitg said:


> What I'm surprised by is the cajones on the guys sweeping up that black powder in the range you're talking about. One spark and...


This was smokeless powder, way more stable than true black powder. Smokeless powder is not an explosive, it is highly flammable however it is not easily ignited as some think. Under the right conditions like an indoor range the powder can become more unstable, especially if it is being walked on and ground into finer particles, that is where it becomes easier to ignite.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Christinebitg said:


> Yes, if you're that close, that's significant deterrent.


How far away from someone do you expect to be when defending yourself from inside your car as an Uber driver????


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

Atavar said:


> Absolutely wrong. A firearm is not for intimidation. All that is going to do is get you killed.
> When you shine your pretty red dot at someone their buddy you didn’t see is going to shoot you in the back of your head.
> If you have to draw your firearm pull the trigger. If you don’t have to fire then you don’t need the gun.
> By the time Bad Guy realizes that you have a firearm he should already know where the bullet went.


Ya. If you’re pulling your gun on someone in self defense, it’s to pull the trigger immediately.

It’s actually been successfully argued by a prosecutor that the premise of fear of imminent danger does not exist, if you merely had to pull your gun on someone and show it to them. And to claim one acted in self defense by using their firearm, it requires a reasonable person to believe they are in imminent danger. If you didn’t have to pull the trigger, you weren’t really in imminent danger…


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## WI_Hedgehog (Aug 16, 2021)

UberChiefPIT said:


> How far away from someone do you expect to be when defending yourself from inside your car as an Uber driver????


Uber Eats.
Anyway, when it comes to crime, always expect the unexpected. (said respectfully)


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

WI_Hedgehog said:


> Uber Eats.
> Anyway, when it comes to crime, always expect the unexpected. (said respectfully)


I would still say that if you need it while doing UE, it would be against someone who is right up on you to either rob you, or attack you at their door.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Atavar said:


> Try this. Go out to the range with a buddy. You aim with your laser and let him aim with iron sights at 15 yards.
> See who gets more shots on target in two seconds.


On a static target at the range for anyone that practices on a regular basis I would say it would be equal. Toss a red/green dot into the mix and I would give the red/green dot a slight advantage.

Now lets take a moving target, like someone charging at you at an angle. In my experience red/green dot by far out targets both. Iron Sights number 2, followed by laser sight last.


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## UberChiefPIT (Apr 13, 2020)

FLKeys said:


> On a static target at the range for anyone that practices on a regular basis I would say it would be equal. Toss a red/green dot into the mix and I would give the red/green dot a slight advantage.
> 
> Now lets take a moving target, like someone charging at you at an angle. In my experience red/green dot by far out targets both. Iron Sights number 2, followed by laser sight last.


Yes a red dot sight would be accurate.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> On a static target at the range for anyone that practices on a regular basis I would say it would be equal. Toss a red/green dot into the mix and I would give the red/green dot a slight advantage.
> 
> Now lets take a moving target, like someone charging at you at an angle. In my experience red/green dot by far out targets both. Iron Sights number 2, followed by laser sight last.





FLKeys said:


> On a static target at the range for anyone that practices on a regular basis I would say it would be equal. Toss a red/green dot into the mix and I would give the red/green dot a slight advantage.
> 
> Now lets take a moving target, like someone charging at you at an angle. In my experience red/green dot by far out targets both. Iron Sights number 2, followed by laser sight last.





WI_Hedgehog said:


> Uber drivers talking about shots on a Friday...yet not exactly what I expected...


The question is shots on target in the first two seconds after pulling your gun. With a red dot or laser you can spend the entirety of those critical first two seconds just finding the red dot. By that time you are already dead.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> On a static target at the range for anyone that practices on a regular basis I would say it would be equal. Toss a red/green dot into the mix and I would give the red/green dot a slight advantage.
> 
> Now lets take a moving target, like someone charging at you at an angle. In my experience red/green dot by far out targets both. Iron Sights number 2, followed by laser sight last.


Try it and see. You’ll be surprised.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Atavar said:


> Try it and see. You’ll be surprised.


I have, without actually timing it, I have. Prior to the last ammo crunch I average about 15,000 rounds down range. Now that prices on powder, bullets and primers are up I have cut back to about 6,000 rounds a year. Prefer iron sights myself. However I have my fair share of rounds fired with a laser sight system. In the last couple years I have transitioned to dot sights co-witnessed with my iron sights. Still have not made the transition to a dot on my carry gun however I am in the market for a new dot ready carry gun.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Atavar said:


> The question is shots on target in the first two seconds after pulling your gun. With a red dot or laser you can spend the entirety of those critical first two seconds just finding the red dot. By that time you are already dead.


I agree with chasing a laser, I have no issues picking up my red/green dot just as quick as I pick up iron sights. In fact I think I pick up the dot quicker than the irons. 

Willing to bet most people on his board can't draw and get a single shot on target in under 2 seconds. Maybe from a low ready. I'm not the quickest, however with irons and dots I can draw and get my first shot on target consistently in under 1.35 seconds and and keep follow up shots on target with .25 second splits. So I can get 3-4 shots on target in your 2 seconds. This is at 5 yards.


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