# Complaints about Gross Revenue per (odometer) Mile



## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Why do some rideshare drivers complain about any gross revenue per mile that's under $1.00 USD?

Also, what's magical about $1.00? They've been bleating and parroting this "$1 per mile" phrase since Barack was in office and well before everyone was talking about post-pandemic recovery inflation.

Just look at what these guys (and girls) have been getting for *years*! and they have to attend and pay for formal training and special licensing and and have greater responsibility and have to be away from home for days to weeks at a time! Rideshare drivers don't have any of that!




> A majority of trucking companies pay between $0.28 and $0.40 cents per mile according to the U.S Bureau of Labor Statistics. A few companies do pay up to $0.45 cents per mile.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Sliding pay scales will pay a different amount per mile depending on the length of your trip. Typically they pay more per mile for shorter hauls than longer ones. For example, a 1-to-500-mile load may pay $0.50 per mile, while every mile past 501 may reduce pay to $0.45 per mile.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Data from the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics indicates that most companies pay between 28 and 40 cents per mile.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

There’s a difference between a thousand mile trip and a 12 mile trip.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> Why do some rideshare drivers complain about any gross revenue per mile that's under $1.00 USD?
> 
> Also, what's magical about $1.00? They've been bleating and parroting this "$1 per mile" phrase since Barack was in office and well before everyone was talking about post-pandemic recovery inflation.
> 
> ...


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Atavar said:


> There’s a difference between a thousand mile trip and a 12 mile trip.


 Sorry, I'm not following. Please elaborate.



Mole said:


> they are also getting a $10,000 signing bonuses for a 2 years of service with a company. And they do not own the truck and don’t pay for the fuel.


SOB is employment and a term commitment. Rideshare has no commitment.

So, here ya go:





$1.05 CPM as a CDL-A Owner Operator Truck Driver with Ozark Motor Lines | Pine Mountain, GA


Earn more for your personal trucking business! Owner Operators who join the Ozark family can take advantage of a $1.05 CPM pay rate!Are you an Owner Operator...




www.truckingcompanieshiring.com


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## Uber JC (4 mo ago)

You can't really compare trucking and Uber/Lyft, but I will tell you that I would run Uber before I ran in a truck. You actually make more money driving for Uber, and you're home every day and the work is MUCH easier. I work for a trucking company, but I work in Management. I would never want to be a driver for $1000 or $1250 a week. It's a hard life. Only the top 5% of drivers make the $1750+ per week. Truck drivers work 60 to 70 hours a week for $1000 to $1500 mostly. Unless they own the truck. Uber you can make $1500 a week on 40 hours, another 5 hours for the gas and you've worked 45 hours that you chose and make the same amount.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

> How do owner-operators get paid? There are two main ways: a percentage of the load or mileage. Earning consistency is the biggest difference between the two.
> 
> Percentage of load. *Drivers take between 25-85%* of the load revenue. So if you get a high-paying or valuable load, your pay can be excellent. But a low-value load can hit you hard — sometimes, you don’t break even on those.
> 
> ...


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## Uber JC (4 mo ago)

Owner ops is a whole different ball game. It really depends on what segment you are in. Containers, Flat bed, Reefer, dry van, Gas/Oil, Food Grade Tanker, Hazardous Tanker and the list goes on and on. Overall, drivers can do pretty well if they run their business correctly. I have some guys clearing over $100K per year after expenses, but they run their truck like a business. They know their operating costs, and how much money they need per day/and per mile to make a profit.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Uber JC said:


> I have some guys clearing over $100K per year after expenses, but they run their truck like a business.


Me too. They're living in their truck 23 of 30 days year round.


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## Uber JC (4 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> Me too. They're living in their truck 23 of 30 days year round.


Some of them. I work in the intermodal segment, so our guys are home every day. They clear about $3K per week after fuel and insurance and such. That doesn't include maintenance, repair and truck payments. My guess is most of these guys put $1800 to $2000 in their pocket each week after everything. Uber will allow you to do the same, but way easier work. Trucking is hard and dangerous, not that Uber isn't, but it's not as dangerous as trucking. It's honestly very easy work. Probably the easiest work I've done in my life.


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## woggy9 (6 mo ago)

Uber JC said:


> Some of them. I work in the intermodal segment, so our guys are home every day. They clear about $3K per week after fuel and insurance and such. That doesn't include maintenance, repair and truck payments. My guess is most of these guys put $1800 to $2000 in their pocket each week after everything. Uber will allow you to do the same, but way easier work. Trucking is hard and dangerous, not that Uber isn't, but it's not as dangerous as trucking. It's honestly very easy work. Probably the easiest work I've done in my life.


You don't interact with as many strangers or have to let them sit behind you though if you're a trucker. I'm curious how being a trucker is more dangerous? Would love to see the stats on this, it doesn't seem to me like it would be as dangerous since you're kind of protected in that big cabin. I wouldn't be surprised if trucking IS more dangerous, I just don't know how it would be. is it because operating those big things is something that is easy to screw up? maybe i just weigh the danger of a random stranger as more than the risk of if I screwed up operating such a vehicle

Nobody ever really explains the $/Mi thing but my guess is it's arbitrary and just an easy target to get the idea that when that ratio is better you make more, but you have to factor in time as well and time spent waiting for trips/cherry picking too.


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## Uber JC (4 mo ago)

woggy9 said:


> You don't interact with as many strangers or have to let them sit behind you though if you're a trucker. I'm curious how being a trucker is more dangerous? Would love to see the stats on this, it doesn't seem to me like it would be as dangerous since you're kind of protected in that big cabin. I wouldn't be surprised if trucking IS more dangerous, I just don't know how it would be. is it because operating those big things is something that is easy to screw up? maybe i just weigh the danger of a random stranger as more than the risk of if I screwed up operating such a vehicle
> 
> Nobody ever really explains the $/Mi thing but my guess is it's arbitrary and just an easy target to get the idea that when that ratio is better you make more, but you have to factor in time as well and time spent waiting for trips/cherry picking too.


When you're driving those big trucks, it's very unforgiving. It's easy to roll one over, or to get injured. You're always in and out of trucks, opening and closing the trailer doors. Lots of slips and falls, injuries and death from accidents. Truck drivers do cherry pick, and the rate per mile depends on what segment your in and whether your a company driver or an owner op, and whether it's a short run or a long run if you're an owner op.


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## uberebu (Jan 13, 2017)

But they have air ride seats maaaaaan. My a$$ wishes my Prius had that after a loooooong day...LoL


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Why $1 ?

A simple answer.

Because the dollar a mile is the minimum you should drive for doing this business.

This has been discussed several times already.

@ObeyTheNumbers has cover this many times but yet you still keep fighting the answer. Making a new thread doesn't change what was said previous in the other numerous threads about the $1 mile threshold.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Origins of the $1/mile minimum acceptance criteria


What are the real origins of the oft-repeated $1/mile minimum acceptance criteria? Like who started it (like an old timer taxi driver)? What year did it start getting air play? Does it predate Uber in the earliest US cities? My goal is >$1/mile average gross revenue for all miles (empty...




www.uberpeople.net





How many more threads do you want to start on this?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Average truck driver pay per mile is *between 28 and 40 cents per mile*.

That's a driver. No overhead paid to the truck or cost of anything related to the truck. This is to drive.

So a lot of your fares that Uber's giving you is paying the exact same amount that somebody that just did nothing but drive somebody else's vehicle.

Next,
Sliding pay scales will pay a different amount per mile depending on the length of your trip. Typically they pay more per mile for shorter hauls than longer ones. For example, a *1-to-500-mile load may pay $0.50 per mile, while every mile past 501 may reduce pay to $0.45 per mile.*

They also turn more billable miles per day than most rideshare driver out there.



You're comparing oranges and apples. You're quoting driver prices in that owner operator prices.

Uber is owner operators.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

And do you still want to argue about the extra 15 cents or whatever it is? Even if the government pays you $0.62 a mile, what's wrong with putting an extra 15 cents or an extra 38 cents more away per mile to cover the incidents that are going on today. Inflation blah blah blah blah blah blah blah?


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

I am not Driver but I was a shipping clerk for gatx/ American President line for about 7 years, most of the drivers did nothing but complain, it's hard work most of them practically lived in their truck, in fact I knew a few drivers that didn't have their own home and did not have an apartment, and my wife may God Rest her soul she died of lung cancer her first husband died in a truck driving accident truck jackknife, I'll take Uber any day of the week.


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

$1.05 a mile as an owner operator for a semi-truck (even with most fuel paid)? LOL… That rate is cheaper than backhaul rates from 10 years ago. You can get refer loads for $4-$8 mile these days…


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Because the dollar a mile is the minimum you should drive for doing this business.


 That simply doesn't address the question. It merely restates an *opinion*.



W00dbutcher said:


> This has been discussed several times already.


 Without bothering to assert why $1.00 and not $.80 or even $1.20. That means that it's simply a number that someone pulled outta their ass a decade ago and morons just keep bleating it to this day.



W00dbutcher said:


> cover this many times but yet you still keep fighting the answer.


 Asking for justification isn't fighting. Without evidence for it, it's merely an opinion. And an ignorant one.



W00dbutcher said:


> How many more threads do you want to start on this?


 This thread has a *different* main topic.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> been bleating and parroting this "$1 per


Second paragraph of the first post. So that would be part of the topic or else it never should have been mentioned.

Not to mention the question before that asks why!


Heisenburger said:


> Also, what's magical about $1.00?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> So a lot of your fares that Uber's giving you is paying the exact same amount that somebody that just did nothing but drive somebody else's vehicle.


And that person has to work on a schedule, fixed hours, away from home overnight, pays for specialized training, more stressful driving conditions because of heavier vehicle. So this is a win for the Uber column.



W00dbutcher said:


> Sliding pay scales will pay a different amount per mile depending on the length of your trip. Typically they pay more per mile for shorter hauls than longer ones.


So, exactly like Upfront Fares.



W00dbutcher said:


> You're comparing oranges and apples. You're quoting driver prices in that owner operator prices.


Feel free to do a comparison if you think you have the chops.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> Without bothering to assert why $1.00 and not $.80 or even $1.20. That means that it's simply a number that someone pulled outta their ass a decade ago and morons just keep bleating it to this day.


@ObeyTheNumbers has already walked you through on shovel threads why $1 works out based on current prices in the way Uber is working.

Now a year ago we got The upfront pricing here in jacksonville. Within a week or two even I figured out the minimum, needed, too, sustained, your, vehicle, paycheck, and everything else involved was $1. And I have something completely different than what I base my numbers off of than what @ObeyTheNumbers did.

I lease a taxi, and able to do Uber because of my situation. My numbers are based on the cost of the lease, fuel, what I want to get paid, and if something was to happen and I lose the taxi money put aside to buy or get another vehicle.

Guess what it came out to $1.

So to answer your question it doesn't matter what 20 or 30 or 10 or even 5 years ago has to do with the current $1 situation. It's just a benchmark for today based on what Uber is paying to make money and put something away for the Future.

Is that really so ****ing hard to understand?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> And that person has to work on a schedule, fixed hours, away from home overnight, pays for specialized training, more stressful driving conditions because of heavier vehicle. So this is a win for the Uber column.
> 
> So, exactly like Upfront Fares.
> 
> Feel free to do a comparison if you think you have the chops.


Company drivers are no comparison to Uber drivers because Uber drivers are owner operators. No comparison apples and oranges


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

So what I want to know now, is what is your minimum benchmark for Uber to make money?

How did you come about to make this number.

And if you got the chops to do it show me in comparison how an Uber driver is to accompany CDL driver.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Is that really so ****ing hard to understand?


Yes, it certainly is.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> So what I want to know now, is what is your minimum benchmark for Uber to make money?
> 
> How did you come about to make this number.


Nope, because nobody's provided a breakdown of the often bleated, but *never* explained silly $1 per odometer mile standard.


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## Uber JC (4 mo ago)

SinTaxERROR said:


> $1.05 a mile as an owner operator for a semi-truck (even with most fuel paid)? LOL… That rate is cheaper than backhaul rates from 10 years ago. You can get refer loads for $4-$8 mile these days…


Not unless you're doing heavy haul. The average national Van rate last week was $2.59 per mile. Fuel is 75 cents of that. Flat bed is more, but there's also a lot of extra work involved (Strapping, tarping, etc). Tanker will pay $5 per loaded mile sometimes, but there's TONS of deadhead in it. So the extra loaded mile rate helps offset your deadhead. The trucking business is in a downward spiral right now. Rates last year were the highest ever. It was like Priceline... But now, the customers get to name their price, and it's super low.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Once again this is not my numbers these were made by @ObeyTheNumbers . So obviously they were written down somewhere or else I wouldn't understand what he's saying. Now would i?

62 cents IRS.
13 cents inflation/bs
25 cents retirement

You can break down to 62 cents however you want. But that's what it costs as per the IRS to maintain run and use your vehicle to do this job.

13 cents is for the current state of bullshit we are currently going through. Inflation, high price of gas, higher cost of cars because of shortages, shortages, and of course you can add Biden in there just because that's what somebody else is going to add in.

25 senses for retirement. Once you get done doing this job hopefully you will have money put away so you can sit out on your both smoking a cigar and snorting cocaine out of the hookers ass, all the while watching some schmuck who didn't put the extra money away who is on the bank fishing with a pole to catch his dinner.

Oh by the way the cigar is not really a cigar, and it's not even tobacco


So now you've been told a second time what the dollar came about or how it came about.


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## Uber JC (4 mo ago)

Heisenburger said:


> That simply doesn't address the question. It merely restates an *opinion*.
> 
> Without bothering to assert why $1.00 and not $.80 or even $1.20. That means that it's simply a number that someone pulled outta their ass a decade ago and morons just keep bleating it to this day.
> 
> ...


You are correct. Most people probably don't even know their cost of operation. That's what determines the rate you can accept. Some people have a lower cost of operation and can take a lower rate. Others have higher and need more. Car payment, fuel, insurance, how much you need to pay yourself, etc.


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## Uber JC (4 mo ago)

W00dbutcher said:


> Once again this is not my numbers these were made by @ObeyTheNumbers . So obviously they were written down somewhere or else I wouldn't understand what he's saying. Now would i?
> 
> 62 cents IRS.
> 13 cents inflation/bs
> ...


No doubt a government actuary came up with the 62 cent IRS math. However, that is supposed to be an average and every vehicle is different. My cost of operation is very low, where someone with a gas guzzler may be higher. 62 cents is an average (which is think is EXTREMELY generous). I'm happy they give that amount, I make money on it every year.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Uber JC said:


> No doubt a government actuary came up with the 62 cent IRS math. However, that is supposed to be an average and every vehicle is different. My cost of operation is very low, where someone with a gas guzzler may be higher. 62 cents is an average (which is think is EXTREMELY generous). I'm happy they give that amount, I make money on it every year.


Rightly so and I agree it's an average.

So unless @Heisenburger what's to do a cost analysis spread sheet to explain in detail wtf he's trying to prove, "that'll do donkey, that'll do."

But I wouldn't hold my breath for that cost analysis from him.....at all. 

Cuz if he did he would see that that $1 is a very obtainable and a realistic benchmark. Like I've said and even @ObeyTheNumbers, it all depends on your market and your overall expenses.


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## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

Why bore the OP with facts , he just likes to be vague and hope no one checks his facts


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## Emptynesst (6 mo ago)

Uber JC said:


> Some of them. I work in the intermodal segment, so our guys are home every day. They clear about $3K per week after fuel and insurance and such. That doesn't include maintenance, repair and truck payments. My guess is most of these guys put $1800 to $2000 in their pocket each week after everything. Uber will allow you to do the same, but way easier work. Trucking is hard and dangerous, not that Uber isn't, but it's not as dangerous as trucking. It's honestly very easy work. Probably the easiest work I've done in my life.


Come drive the Las Vegas market , much more hazardous than driving a tractor trailer on the highway at consistent speeds , and my market you deal with lots of jaywalkers that must be avoided at ALL cost , just saying


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> 62 cents IRS.


Nope, that's not an expense.

Poor effort man.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> 13 cents inflation/bs


Show me a business that has an inflation line item on their financial statements. I'll wait.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> Show me a business that has an inflation line item on their financial statements. I'll wait.


I just did. Am I not a business? Uber drivers don't produce anything we are a service. So we can't diversify our company in the same way as everybody else. We have to plan for this and we have to save for this ourselves. So you're telling me that every driver out here is working from paycheck to paycheck and not considering the fact that when they finally do stop working they are not going to have a nest egg because they did not plan for the future by putting away more money than anticipated? Inflation if it doesn't go up guess what that's money in your pocket, same way with retirement money. These are the two ways that an Uber driver saves for his future. If you don't add these into your bottom lines you're missing out and you are not understanding how to run a business.





Heisenburger said:


> Nope, that's not an expense.
> 
> Poor effort man.


IRS say it's the cost to run your vehicle as a company. Is that not an expenditure?

Another thing, how can you thumbs up a post about the exact same thing I said about the 62 cents but yet you say the $0.62 is not an expenditure? Did you not like the following quote with no conflict fight or mention about the fact that it's not an expenditure?



Uber JC said:


> My cost of operation is very low, where someone with a gas guzzler may be higher. 62 cents is an average (which is think is EXTREMELY generous).


So which one's it going to be there old Heisenberg? Is it expenditure or is it not an expenditure? Seems you can't decide either. But the IRS has stated that it's a cost to run a vehicle per mile. Cost being the word cost means expenditure.


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## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Uber JC said:


> Not unless you're doing heavy haul. The average national Van rate last week was $2.59 per mile. Fuel is 75 cents of that. Flat bed is more, but there's also a lot of extra work involved (Strapping, tarping, etc). Tanker will pay $5 per loaded mile sometimes, but there's TONS of deadhead in it. So the extra loaded mile rate helps offset your deadhead. The trucking business is in a downward spiral right now. Rates last year were the highest ever. It was like Priceline... But now, the customers get to name their price, and it's super low.


I owned 10 tractor trailers, sold it all 10 years ago. Was making $2.50 minimum per mile -plus- national based fuel surcharge with van trailers on dedicated account. My backhauls paid about the same. All loads under 100 miles was $550 minimum plus fuel. Today even pulling port containers makes really decent $$$.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> IRS say it's the cost to run your vehicle as a company.


Actually, they don't say that. Here's what it says:



> Beginning on January 1, 2022, the standard mileage rates for the use of a car (also vans, pickups or panel trucks) will be:
> 
> 58.5 cents per mile driven for business use, up 2.5 cents from the rate for 2021,
> 
> ...


So, it's either 58 or 18 or 14 CPM, depending on what *industry* it's used in, not depending on vehicle type, size, age, or mechanical condition (things that actually have a bearing on CPM).


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> Actually, they don't say that. Here's what it says:
> 
> 
> 
> So, it's either 58 or 18 or 14 CPM, depending on what *industry* it's used in, not depending on vehicle type, size, age, or mechanical condition (things that actually have a bearing on CPM).


Try again. It's 62.5 cents.






IRS increases mileage rate for remainder of 2022 | Internal Revenue Service


IR-2022-124, June 9, 2022 — The Internal Revenue Service today announced an increase in the optional standard mileage rate for the final 6 months of 2022. Taxpayers may use the optional standard mileage rates to calculate the deductible costs of operating an automobile for business and certain...




www.irs.gov






If you're going to give advice on how to run a business I would suggest you keep up the date on the correct information.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Btw @Heisenburger,

What is your cost analysis or minimum Benchmark that you would say Uber needs to pay you to drive. You seem pretty critical about everybody else's but you don't say a damn thing about your own?

You will need to provide information just to make sure that you're just not drag in numbers out of your ass.

I'll wait for your reply.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Uber JC said:


> It's honestly very easy work. Probably the easiest work I've done in my life.


The easiest job I have ever had was an office job. Due to restructuring I somehow got left out and the result was that nobody knew what I did, or gave me any work to do. So I would arrive at 9am and surf the web, make myself coffee and look busy for 8 hours and then go home. It finally came to an end when the girl who sat next to me ratted me out to management and I got the boot. It was good while it lasted, though.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

elelegido said:


> The easiest job I have ever had was an office job. Due to restructuring I somehow got left out and the result was that nobody knew what I did, or gave me any work to do. So I would arrive at 9am and surf the web, make myself coffee and look busy for 8 hours and then go home. It finally came to an end when the girl who sat next to me ratted me out to management and I got the boot. It was good while it lasted, though.


Hello Milton!


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> That simply doesn't address the question. It merely restates an *opinion*.
> 
> Without bothering to assert why $1.00 and not $.80 or even $1.20. That means that it's simply a number that someone pulled outta their ass a decade ago and morons just keep bleating it to this day.
> 
> ...


The $1/mile is an arbitrary metric against which you can measure your own performance.

Personally, I use three measurements to check my performance; revenue/mile, revenue/trip, revenue/hour.

Here is an excerpt from the tracking;








The revenue and mileage are cumulative and the $/mile and $/trip are rolling numbers that update with each ride.
All my calculations are inclusive of dead miles. I set a new trip odometer at the start of each week and my hours are the gross hours needed to complete all miles and trips.

**My car has been 100% rideshare exclusive since the day I purchased it. I don’t have any issues with the IRS since it is 100% business use.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> Nope, because nobody's provided a breakdown of the often bleated, but *never* explained silly $1 per odometer mile standard.


It is not a standard. It is a metric. If you are making less than $1, you need to make changes quickly.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Diamondraider said:


> If you are making less than $1, you need to make changes quickly.


But specifically why? Do you know everyone's CPM?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> But specifically why? Do you know everyone's CPM?


Why is it so important to question everyone's explained reason for the 1 dollar, but refuse to provide your own cpm as comparison
?

At this point your just a troll. 

How many times are you going to kick this dead horse with everyone's shoes but tour own?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Why is it so important to question everyone's explained reason for the 1 dollar, but refuse to provide your own cpm as comparison
> ?
> 
> At this point your just a troll.
> ...


As often as I deem appropriate.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Still waiting for your CPM.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Still waiting for your CPM.


Why do you want my cost per mile?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

I want you to explain what your CPM is. Break it down so we all know what a CPM is consistent of with no questions asked. then see what you come out to get

Or are you just going to armchair quarterback this like everything else you do?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Still waiting.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Or are you just going to armchair quarterback this like everything else you do?


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> How many times are you going to kick this dead horse with everyone's shoes but tour own?


How many times will you peck out words on a keyboard and just assert that they answer the question without actually having answered it? Are you practicing for a political career?


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Still waiting...


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> But specifically why? Do you know everyone's CPM?
> [/I already answered you. It is a metric. A benchmark. Just as a minimum wage is something people compare their salary to. Or other salary metrics. I am not smart enough to explain something like this to you if you don’t get it. I wish you the best in finding a solution to this puzzling problem that vexes you


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

uberebu said:


> But they have air ride seats maaaaaan. My a$$ wishes my Prius had that after a loooooong day...LoL


You're going to pay for that when you get old.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

I realize this is a national average (ignores regional variations), but this rate per mile (obviously company driver) is lower than my net per mile:

_Regional truck driver salary Truckers who run freight along regional routes earn slightly less than OTR drivers. According to ZipRecruiter, the average regional truck driver salary is $60,000 per year or $1,200 per week. Regional truck drivers make between $0.60 and $0.70 per mile._









How Much Does a Truck Driver Make? [Updated October, 2022]


Want to find out the salary of a truck driver in the United States? Read this detailed guide to learn how much truck drivers make.




www.hmdtrucking.com


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> I realize this is a national average (ignores regional variations), but this rate per mile (obviously company driver) is lower than my net per mile:
> 
> _Regional truck driver salary Truckers who run freight along regional routes earn slightly less than OTR drivers. According to ZipRecruiter, the average regional truck driver salary is $60,000 per year or $1,200 per week. Regional truck drivers make between $0.60 and $0.70 per mile._
> 
> ...


This shit again, you're comparing a truck driver that is company, keyword company man or woman, against an independent contractor.

Company man/woman.
.set hours
.boss tells him how to wipe ass when on clock
.paid breaks
.paid lunch
.absolutely no say in company decision financial or other outside of work scope( but a good employer, keyword employer, would also listen to his employees, keyword employees)
.Carries no financial burden if the company goes under
.responsible for sometimes the millions of dollars of cargo
. Certification FROM schooling

Independent contractor
.none of the above



Correction, some may hold certifications or CDL certified Ada


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> But specifically why? Do you know everyone's CPM?


When setting benchmarks, you should understand that nearly ALL people will not peg the benchmark number.

Google “mean” and “median” as a starter course on applied statistics.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Diamondraider said:


> When setting benchmarks, you should understand that nearly ALL people will not peg the benchmark number.
> 
> Google “mean” and “median” as a starter course on applied statistics.


I understand those topics way better than average Joe. But how are they specifically kosher to the disagreement here?


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Heisenburger said:


> I understand those topics way better than average Joe. But how are they specifically kosher to the disagreement here?


Apologies. I’ve run out of troll food.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

Diamondraider said:


> Apologies. I’ve run out of troll food.


Works for me.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Still waiting for your CPM.


Why do you want my cost per mile?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Diamondraider said:


> The $1/mile is an arbitrary metric


No, $1/mile is not a "metric". "Metric" is simply business jargon that is often substituted in for the word, "measure". In this example, revenue per mile is the measure (rate at which revenue is made) and $1/mile is a single reference point (sometimes known as a "benchmark") from the spectrum of possible rates, against which other results may be compared. To put it briefly, "metric" is the measure, $1/mile is the measurement. The difference between "measure" and "measurement" is subtle but, to use more business jargon, "it is what it is".

I will illustrate this with the analogy of driving a car. One would not say that 65mph is a metric. Or a measure. The metric or measure here is speed, with 65mph being a possible measurement. In some places, 65mph could be a reference point (or benchmark) with which other speeds are compared. The police often use 65mph as a reference point when they measure the speed of vehicles on the highways. Vehicles travelling faster than the reference are speeding; those who are not are not.

A handy go-to rule to know whether something is a "metric" / measure or a benchmark is as follows: if it describes what is being measured or how to measure it, for example revenue/mile, employee turnover/year, sales/month, then it is a metric. If it is a specific data point that is selected as a target or a determinant of success, such as $1/mile, or 5%/year or $10,000/month, then it is a benchmark.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Diamondraider said:


> It is not a standard. It is a metric. If you are making less than $1, you need to make changes quickly.


Again, no - you are confusing "measure" with "measurement". See above for explanation.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Heisenburger said:


> Nope, because nobody's provided a breakdown of the often bleated, but *never* explained silly $1 per odometer mile standard.


It's because we have ten fingers. This led us to devising a base 10 number system. We like the number 10 because we take it to mean the pinnacle of something, and we give more meaning to things that are quantified with 10.

So, we have "top 10" lists of things, as in pop music charts. The FBI has its 10 most-wanted list. Not the 9 most-wanted, or the 11 most-wanted, but the 10 most-wanted. We also like powers of 10, such as 100. So, in sports, athletes run the 100m. Not the 95m or the 103m although, from a point of view of competition, running the 95m would be just as valid given that all participants would be measured over the same distance.

Anyway, drivers like $1/mile as a benchmark and not $1.03/mile or 93¢ per mile because $1.00, or 100¢ is comforting. It's a nice, round number that is a multiple of 10. It's also easy to calculate - if a trip that is 10 miles pays $10, then it is easy to calculate whether $1/mile has been reached.

A more useful benchmark might be one that is tailored to the individual driver. That is, he could set a target profit and then, by taking into account his own expenses, work out the target revenue/mile that would allow him to achieve the desired profit. This might turn out to be, for example, $1.28 per mile. However, many drivers would not know how to calculate (a) this benchmark or (b) whether actual or offered rides satisfied it. So they use $1/mile because it is comforting and because it is easy, even though it was not set in relation to their own expenses or to their own profit target and is therefore of little use.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

elelegido said:


> It's because we have ten fingers. This led us to devising a base 10 number system. We like the number 10 because we take it to mean the pinnacle of something, and we give more meaning to things that are quantified with 10.
> 
> So, we have "top 10" lists of things, as in pop music charts. The FBI has its 10 most-wanted list. Not the 9 most-wanted, or the 11 most-wanted, but the 10 most-wanted. We also like powers of 10, such as 100. So, in sports, athletes run the 100m. Not the 95m or the 103m although, from a point of view of competition, running the 95m would be just as valid given that all participants would be measured over the same distance.
> 
> ...


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

elelegido said:


> No, $1/mile is not a "metric". "Metric" is simply business jargon that is often substituted in for the word, "measure". In this example, revenue per mile is the measure (rate at which revenue is made) and $1/mile is a single reference point (sometimes known as a "benchmark") from the spectrum of possible rates, against which other results may be compared. To put it briefly, "metric" is the measure, $1/mile is the measurement. The difference between "measure" and "measurement" is subtle but, to use more business jargon, "it is what it is".
> 
> I will illustrate this with the analogy of driving a car. One would not say that 65mph is a metric. Or a measure. The metric or measure here is speed, with 65mph being a possible measurement. In some places, 65mph could be a reference point (or benchmark) with which other speeds are compared. The police often use 65mph as a reference point when they measure the speed of vehicles on the highways. Vehicles travelling faster than the reference are speeding; those who are not are not.
> 
> A handy go-to rule to know whether something is a "metric" / measure or a benchmark is as follows: if it describes what is being measured or how to measure it, for example revenue/mile, employee turnover/year, sales/month, then it is a metric. If it is a specific data point that is selected as a target or a determinant of success, such as $1/mile, or 5%/year or $10,000/month, then it is a benchmark.


Thanks. You have validated my exodus from the white collar world is complete as i no longer utilize the lingo with proper specificity. 

I am content.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> It's because we have ten fingers. This led us to devising a base 10 number system. We like the number 10 because we take it to mean the pinnacle of something, and we give more meaning to things that are quantified with 10.
> 
> So, we have "top 10" lists of things, as in pop music charts. The FBI has its 10 most-wanted list. Not the 9 most-wanted, or the 11 most-wanted, but the 10 most-wanted. We also like powers of 10, such as 100. So, in sports, athletes run the 100m. Not the 95m or the 103m although, from a point of view of competition, running the 95m would be just as valid given that all participants would be measured over the same distance.
> 
> ...


I agree with your example of being a base 10 comparison, because most people would get lost in base 12. Even though we use base 12 everyday.

But the $1 was not just an arbitrary number we "pulled out of her ass" or was derived from the causality of base 10 Counting.

It was an average based on another average and two assigned values based on speculation and a guarantor of making something off every mile.

People are getting hung up and not seeing the average or the minimum words put into the topic, sentence 
, or idea. Instead they are seeing them as hard values that should not be deviated from. That's the problem people are having a tough time understanding. What works in one market will not work in another Market that gas is actually $2 more a gallon to purchase.

The first part of the cost per mile was the actual IRS numbers for tax credit of 62.5 cents. This is their average, average being the keyword, to run and maintain a vehicle in today's business atmosphere. Now here again this is not set in stone but this is an average. So if you're lucky enough to have a CPM below 62.5 cents, say 30 cents CPM, then you would actually be making 32.5 cents per mile more than what your vehicle cost to maintain and keep on the road. This is a win for the driver/owner because that goes into the pocket of that individual. And if it's higher than 62.5 cents you might want to consider getting a new vehicle.

The wiggle room Factor. It's 15 cents. Even though there may not be many companies in the world that probably use this as a line item on their Financial records, this does not prevent somebody to use this term to anticipate inflation or expenditures that normally would not be associated with doing this gig on a daily basis. For example the current state of War with Russia and Ukraine. We did not know it was going to happen is so you really can't itemize this other than a generic description of a possibility that anything could happen. Thus the wiggle room Factor. As far as I know you can name anything you want as a line item as long as you can explain why it's a line item with a value and receipts.

Future planning. 25 cents. This could be a multitude of things just by it's statement. Pay, Retirement, upgrading your vehicle, buying a suit to go with your upgraded vehicle, Insurance to go with your upgraded vehicle, everything that deals with getting a upgraded vehicle. Is this self-explanatory or do I really need to go into detail any further about what future planning is about?


So the $1 minimum was a value based those 3 things.

The intention of the $1 was actually to help people that did not have a clue on any of the topic discussed above or how to figure it out. It was a starting or jump off point for an inexperienced new person into this gig.

Now if you were smart and you knew what your CPM all your cost and expenditures to run your business per mile, you would understand that it's not something that somebody can just sit down and look at without some sort of database to pull all those information from. That database could be all the information from your last year as a rideshare driver, that could be a simple estimated value from a forum to start with, and it can even be a value that you pulled out of your ass because you're that lucky. Either way if you don't know what the hell you're doing in this business you have to find out some information from somewhere. That's all that that was designed to do.


So if you're smart enough to raise, lower, modify, or totally ignore the $1 a mile estimate, that's your prerogative in life.

However some that doesn't have that smart yet, will have a starting point to help them decide what it is that they need to make money.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

For shits and giggles, let's just say 4 months ago you sat down and figured out that your CPM was 30 cents a mile. And you decided that 50 cents a mile was a good pay for yourself. So now we have 80 cents a mile.

Oh but what happened, there was a war and shit went through the roof for inflation. What am I going to do now because I didn't anticipate something like this happening. So now not only did you lose money off of your pay it now cost you more to run that same vehicle.

I'm guessing that $1 minimum a mile looks pretty good now don't it?







Oh but woody, I could change my CPM and everything at any time. Yes this is true you can change your CPM anytime or your threshold that you will take per mile.

But a good business person would anticipate everything he possibly can and plan for before it happens.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Diamondraider said:


> Thanks. You have validated my exodus from the white collar world is complete as i no longer utilize the lingo with proper specificity.
> 
> I am content.


So you got optics on the fact that corporate life took up too much bandwidth, and you used some blue-sky thinking to pivot towards the value proposition of double-clicking on it and punting it over the wall.

Or, alternatively, you said, "F this" and you quit. Same here.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> I agree with your example of being a base 10 comparison, because most people would get lost in base 12. Even though we use base 12 everyday.


No, we certainly do not use base 12 every day. Some things do come in twelves, or dozens, but we count them using base 10 as "12" and, by definition, it does not mean that things that add up to 12 in base 10 were counted using base 12. Incidentally, if we counted to a dozen in base 12, the result would be "10", given that 12 in base 10 is 10 in base 12. 

"Base" simply refers to the quantity of unique numbers in a number system. We use base 10, given that there are 10 unique numbers in our system (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9). Base 12 uses all of these numbers plus A and B, so the unique number set in base 12 is (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,A,B). If, for example, you wanted to express the base 10 number "1,000" in base 12, it would be "6B4". It's a very different system from the one we use. Non-mathematicians such as myself and many others would find it almost impossible to use it fluidly on a daily basis without a lot of practice.


> But the $1 was not just an arbitrary number we "pulled out of her ass" or was derived from the causality of base 10 Counting.


Oh, I think it was. 100 is a nice, comforting number to use and, for the reasons explained, we like 10 and powers/multiples of.


> It was an average based on another average and two assigned values based on speculation and a guarantor of making something off every mile.
> 
> People are getting hung up and not seeing the average or the minimum words put into the topic, sentence
> , or idea. Instead they are seeing them as hard values that should not be deviated from. That's the problem people are having a tough time understanding. What works in one market will not work in another Market that gas is actually $2 more a gallon to purchase.
> ...


I'm not convinced! If that were so then everyone who touts the $1/mile benchmark would have had to come up with exactly the same financial analysis, which is not feasible.


> The intention of the $1 was actually to help people that did not have a clue on any of the topic discussed above or how to figure it out. It was a starting or jump off point for an inexperienced new person into this gig.


I see the argument - that something is better than nothing - but what the OP asked was why that specific number and not, say, $1.13 per mile, or 83.5¢ per mile.


> Now if you were smart and you knew what your CPM all your cost and expenditures to run your business per mile, you would understand that it's not something that somebody can just sit down and look at without some sort of database to pull all those information from. That database could be all the information from your last year as a rideshare driver, that could be a simple estimated value from a forum to start with, and it can even be a value that you pulled out of your ass because you're that lucky. Either way if you don't know what the hell you're doing in this business you have to find out some information from somewhere. That's all that that was designed to do.
> 
> 
> So if you're smart enough to raise, lower, modify, or totally ignore the $1 a mile estimate, that's your prerogative in life.
> ...


Again, I see the argument that "any target is better than no target". However, there is little utility in working towards a target that one does not know the validity of. What if $1/mile results in a net loss for a driver? The prudent thing to do when one is in business - any business - is always to have a handle on one's estimated and actual costs, rather than aiming for arbitrary targets that may or may not reflect one's actual business activities.

An analogy would be being lost in the wilderness. Your buddy says to you - "Hey, there's a tree over there! Let's walk towards it!". You ask, "Is it the way we need to go?". Your buddy replies, "Who knows? But it's a goal and it's better than nothing!".


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> No, we certainly do not use base 12 every day.


A clock
A foot (NON-metric)
A dozen.

All are based on a unique quantity of..........12

Ever see a base 10 clock?

If you really want to get technical a clock is base 60. But let's not muddy the waters and get all fancy.



elelegido said:


> I'm not convinced!


That's the beauty of it you don't have to be convinced it's an estimate.



elelegido said:


> but what the OP asked was why that specific number and not, say, $1.13 per mile, or 83.5¢ per mile.


I gave you the three estimated values that I used that add up to an estimated $1.



elelegido said:


> rather than aiming for arbitrary targets that may or may not reflect one's actual business activities.


Exactly how did you have a handle on the fact that they were going to go to war and push the gas prices up like it did?

Here again I have to explain it one more time. If you know what your CPM the estimated $1 would be moot to your question. This is for people who don't have a clue what does CPM or cost to doing businesses. Hopefully they will learn and figure this out on their own. And here again the $1 estimate will become moot once they have obtained the knowledge of what's going on.



elelegido said:


> An analogy would be being lost in the wilderness. Your buddy says to you - "Hey, there's a tree over there! Let's walk towards it!". You ask, "Is it the way we need to go?". Your buddy replies, "Who knows? But it's a goal and it's better than nothing!".


Hopefully if you're in the woods you would know that moss grows on the north side of the tree. Or familiarize yourself with the basic survival needs needed to be in the wilderness. Much like one would want to do when running a business. Familiarize yourself what's needed to sustained your business on a day-to-day or yearly basis so you will not "get lost in the woods."


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

You're right we do use base 10 because a lot of us have 10 fingers. Now just think what would have happened if we had 12 fingers?

And the number of 12 in a clock is actually based on lunar cycles. Which are 12 even to this present day.

You can also count base 12 on your hands. This does not require your thumb because you're using each joint of every finger. There has been more than one civilization that has used base 12 as a counting system.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

I think I'm finally going to chime in... lots of discussion and arguing about why $1 or why more or less than $1...

I think everyone involved is overthinking it. MY PERSONAL target is $1 per mile or more AVERAGE... so I do sometimes take less than $1 and hope to mostly take more than $1. Depends on the situation.

However, the whole discussion about why $1 or why NOT $1, boils down to simple preference. Many people WANT $1. (or more). There doesn't have to be some scientific revelation about why they picked that number - that's just what they want or are striving for. It's literally just what a person wants to achieve. Everyone's markets pay different and everyone's costs are different depending on their vehicle and how they drive it. 

SO WHY ARE WE DEBATING THE F OUT OF THE $1.00? It's a good benchmark that a lot of people like. 

As my now 21 year old daughter said to me often when in High School, "DAD, IT'S NOT THAT DEEP"


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Ted Fink said:


> I think I'm finally going to chime in... lots of discussion and arguing about why $1 or why more or less than $1...
> 
> I think everyone involved is overthinking it. MY PERSONAL target is $1 per mile or more AVERAGE... so I do sometimes take less than $1 and hope to mostly take more than $1. Depends on the situation.
> 
> ...


Because some people deal in absolutes and can't wrap their head around the word estimate.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

W00dbutcher said:


> Because some people deal in absolutes and can't wrap their head around the word estimate.


But there are no absolutes! My income varies between $5 and $50 per hour. It's a moving target!


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

And before you question base 60 let me give you a little history lesson about mathematics. A long time ago there was two separate civilizations that had two separate types of counting. One was based on five when was based on 12. Both could be achieved by counting on one hand.

The downfall of base 60 was the fact that they could not account for zero.

But the base 60 was already a basis of a very accurate measurement for time and degrees of a circle, or seconds in time.

Base 10 came along after base 60 base 12 base 5.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Ted Fink said:


> But there are no absolutes! My income varies between $5 and $50 per hour. It's a moving target!


 I wasn't talking about you Ted. You already know it's an estimate and and what that word means.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> A clock
> A foot (NON-metric)
> A dozen.
> 
> ...


No, you don't understand number bases.


> That's the beauty of it you don't have to be convinced it's an estimate.


No, it's your explanation that doesn't convince me, not the alleged calculation itself of the benchmark.


> Exactly how did you have a handle on the fact that they were going to go to war and push the gas prices up like it did?


You're expanding the scope of the discussion from how the $1/mile benchmark was arrived at, to now asking me the unrelated question of whether I knew that Russia was going to invade Ukraine. Well, the answer is that no, I did not have prior knowledge that this was going to happen. However, the prudent thing to do from a costing point of view would be to look at how expenses have been affected by the recent inflation in order to arrive at a new target revenue per mile. 


> Here again I have to explain it one more time. If you know what your CPM the estimated $1 would be moot to your question. This is for people who don't have a clue what does CPM or cost to doing businesses. Hopefully they will learn and figure this out on their own. And here again the $1 estimate will become moot once they have obtained the knowledge of what's going on.


No need to explain it again; I understood you the first time. And my answer is the same - it's no good aiming for a target if it is not known whether reaching that target behooves one or not. 


> Familiarize yourself what's needed to sustained your business on a day-to-day or yearly basis so you will not "get lost in the woods."


Indeed; this is a faithful repetition of my message that, rather than chase arbitrary targets, it is better to have an idea of predicted costs and revenues _before _starting a business activity.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Ted Fink said:


> However, the whole discussion about why $1 or why NOT $1, boils down to simple preference. Many people WANT $1. (or more). There doesn't have to be some scientific revelation about why they picked that number - that's just what they want or are striving for. It's literally just what a person wants to achieve.


Exactly, that's my point, precisely. It's based on nothing other than, "because that's what I feel like".


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> No, you don't understand number bases.
> No, it's your explanation that doesn't convince me, not the alleged calculation itself of the benchmark.
> You're expanding the scope of the discussion from how the $1/mile benchmark was arrived at, to now asking me the unrelated question of whether I knew that Russia was going to invade Ukraine. Well, the answer is that no, I did not have prior knowledge that this was going to happen. However, the prudent thing to do from a costing point of view would be to look at how expenses have been affected by the recent inflation in order to arrive at a new target revenue per mile.
> No need to explain it again; I understood you the first time. And my answer is the same - it's no good aiming for a target if it is not known whether reaching that target behooves one or not.
> Indeed; this is a faithful repetition of my message that, rather than chase arbitrary targets, it is better to have an idea of predicted costs and revenues _before _starting a business activity.


You're exactly like Heisenberg.

You can't accept the real reason why something has been labeled as base 12 because it doesn't conform to what you think is right.

The clock was based on not base 10 it was based on base 60.

The increments of time seconds minutes and hours was a weld established base 12 and base 60 counting system before base 10 was even invented.

Just like you can't accept that my estimate of the $1 is based on my thinking and my numbers prior to most of the markets even getting The Upfront pricing.

I've Had The Upfront pricing for over a year now everybody else only a couple of months. So where do you exactly think I got the number for $1 a mile eight months ago.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> because that's what I feel like


Isn't that the basis for any business decision untill proven otherwise?

"I feel the future of Motorola is in cell pnones."

Im sure Martin Cooper at one time said that to himself or other people within Motorola.

And look what you got in your hand now.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> You're exactly like Heisenberg.


I don't know enough about him to be able to either confirm or deny that.


> You can't accept the real reason why something has been labeled as base 12 because it doesn't conform to what you think is right.


_"You don't accept something as correct because it doesn't conform to what you think is correct"_ is a circular argument, and therefore of no use whatsoever!


> The clock was based on not base 10 it was based on base 60.


I was not talking about counting systems; I was talking about our number base system. There is a difference between counting systems and number base systems. Time is based on modified base 60 counting system which is expressed using base 10 number system.

I made the point that people would not understand how to use a base 12 number system, using 0-9 and A and B, which is correct.


> Just like you can't accept that my estimate of the $1 is based on my thinking and my numbers prior to most of the markets even getting The Upfront pricing.


Yes, in my opinion, your explanation is false. If you have any additional evidence to offer in support of your explanation then I would be happy to take a look. Until then, my opinion stands.


> I've Had The Upfront pricing for over a year now everybody else only a couple of months. So where do you exactly think I got the number for $1 a mile eight months ago.


I wouldn't want to even begin to hazard a guess as to how your mind works. Or anyone else's, for that matter.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> Isn't that the basis for any business decision untill proven otherwise?


No. Some people use objective criteria to evaluate business options. Others use subjective.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> No. Some people use objective criteria to evaluate business options. Others use subjective.


Are your panties in a wad on the floor?

Or are your underwear in a dishevel on the wood planking?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> Are your panties in a wad on the floor?
> 
> Or are your underwear in a dishevel on the wood planking?


Nope, I'm not going to help you with your imagery. Click onto P-Hub, dude; it's free.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> No. Some people use objective criteria to evaluate business options. Others use subjective.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> Yes, in my opinion, your explanation is false. If you have any additional evidence to offer in support of your explanation then I would be happy to take a look. Until then, my opinion stands.


I've supplied enough evidence on how I came to the $1 estimate.

You're more than welcome to look back and prove otherwise throughout this forum that it wasn't until just recently that I have been saying this.

At least I took the effort and actually did the work and showed some sort of numbers or information how I derived the one dollar estimate more than 8 months ago.

Both you and Heisenberg have done nothing but contradict everything I said and others for that matter, without even producing any kind of evidence disputing the facts other than your opinions.

If you can come up with a better estimate based on your numbers and your information, please do so and let us all know and enlighten us to what you think the correct amount should be.

I'm sure it's going to be an interesting conversation.

Until then you offer nothing more than baseless drivel.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

W00dbutcher said:


> You now have complete u/p and d/o info at hand.
> 
> Add these 2 together. Divide this into your price listed.
> 
> ...


Say your 1 year average to pay for everything to do this job was $.35 a mile. This is what you base everything off. $.35 breaks even.

I personally dont accept under $1 if i can.

Feb 17, 2022


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> I've supplied enough evidence on how I came to the $1 estimate.


I'll be the judge of that.


> You're more than welcome to look back and prove otherwise throughout this forum that it wasn't until just recently that I have been saying this.


No thanks. I have no interest in proving you wrong. I'm simply saying that I don't believe your explanation. Some things, I believe; some things I don't believe.











> At least I took the effort and actually did the work and showed some sort of numbers or information how I derived the one dollar estimate more than 8 months ago.


Have a gold star. ⭐ But, this explanation is different from the one you posted above, in this thread. Earlier in this thread you claimed that the $1/mile is based on 62.5c IRS allowance + "wiggle room" of 15c + "future planning" of 25c. But now you claim that months ago you got the $1/mile figure from 35c costs plus 65c profit.

This feels like those fly-on-the-wall police station interview tapes, where the suspect keeps changing his story every 5 minutes. It kills credibility!


> Both you and Heisenberg have done nothing but contradict everything I said


I haven't contradicted you at all! All I have said is that I don't believe you; that your (different) explanations do not meet a standard I would consider proof, which is not the same as contradicting you. Consider it "W00dbutcher $1/mile explanation" agnosticism.


> without even producing any kind of evidence disputing the facts other than your opinions.


Lol, that's because I have only contributed opinions. It's impossible to prove how unknown people came up with the $1/mile figure. I _opine_ that people came up with the $1/mile target "just because that's what people feel like", which is an opinion I share with @Ted Fink.


> If you can come up with a better estimate based on your numbers and your information, please do so and let us all know and enlighten us to what you think the correct amount should be.


You miss the point. There is no "correct amount". It will be different for everyone depending on their own unique costs and desired profit levels.


> I'm sure it's going to be an interesting conversation.


I think that the conversation's pretty much reached its conclusion, to be honest.


> Until then you offer nothing more than baseless drivel.


I will be sure to immediately rush your complaint over to my Customer Experience Team and mark it urgent.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> I'll be the judge of that.
> No thanks. I have no interest in proving you wrong. I'm simply saying that I don't believe your explanation. Some things, I believe; some things I don't believe.
> View attachment 683894
> 
> ...


More baseless drivel.

You simply ignore what you want to and dismiss what is true.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> More baseless drivel.


Lol


> You simply ignore what you want to and dismiss what is true.


At no point have I ignored you. I have evaluated your claims and communicated to you my decision that the evidence you supplied for them does not meet my standards.

There is also the major issue that you have submitted two totally different calculations for your $1/mile figure and claimed that both are the way you originally calculated it.

Let's say that the earlier of your two calculations is the real one (the second one with the "wiggle room", you clearly just made up for this thread). In the "real one", you said:



> Say your 1 year average to pay for everything to do this job was $.35 a mile. This is what you base everything off. $.35 breaks even.
> 
> I personally dont accept under $1 if i can.


So your costs are $0.35 per mile, but you give no explanation of how you get from this to $1.00 per mile. Clearly, you just added $0.65 per mile profit as the figure to bring the revenue target up to the nice, round, arbitrary figure of $1/mile.Which is what the OP alleged in the first place - that it's arbitrary.

You could have added $0.60 per mile to your costs and come up with a revenue target of $0.95. Or you could have added $0.72 per mile to get a target of $1.07 per mile. But you didn't. You added $0.65, to get to the nice, round, arbitrary figure of $1.00 per mile. Which, as @Ted Fink said, is just the figure that you wanted, based on nothing at all other than that, and that's _all_ there is to it!


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> There is also the major issue that you have submitted two totally different calculations for your $1/mile figure and claimed that both are the way you originally calculated it.


Can you provide both posts that proves that I have two different calculations for the same dollar?

I do believe supplied sufficient of evidence how I came to the $1 estimate in this thread. At no other time did I mention or say in the other post you referring to that it was nothing more than an opinion.

Where is this information you were referring to in the very first post months ago that was used to determine the $1


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

W00dbutcher said:


> I do believe supplied sufficient of evidence how I came to the $1 estimate in this thread. At no other time did I mention or say in the other post you referring to that it was nothing more than an opinion.


You're missing the whole point of the discussion, and getting confused again. The OP asked, literally:



> Why do some rideshare drivers complain about any gross revenue per mile that's under $1.00 USD?


In other words, why do rideshare drivers set their minimum rideshare targets at $1/mile. I replied, giving my explanation of why drivers set their target at the round dollar figure. Note that this discussion is about targets, not estimates, nor the accuracy of any estimates.

This discussion is about how drivers arrive at the $1/mile target, with the consensus among drivers who have posted here being that it's simply a nice, round figure that they like, and nothing more than that.

And with that, I close my exchange with you on this subject. No further discussion with you will be entertained by me on this subject.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

elelegido said:


> You're missing the whole point of the discussion, and getting confused again. The OP asked, literally:
> 
> In other words, why do rideshare drivers set their minimum rideshare targets at $1/mile. I replied, giving my explanation of why drivers set their target at the round dollar figure. Note that this discussion is about targets, not estimates, nor the accuracy of any estimates.
> 
> ...


Second paragraph of the OP , the question was asked what is the magic behind $1.

I answered the reason behind the magic.

You like everybody else simply deny the logic that I put forth and how I came at the amount of $1. Contributing to "oh it's just a round number."

I could have said 50 cents, which is a round number but you wouldn't be making anything but shit on every ride at 50 cents.

You don't have to be a mathematician to understand the simplicity of that equation.

Unless in your opinion $1.50 for 10 MI is sustainable?

Even by your own words and false accusations, $6.50 would be sustainable as estimated for my market for 10 miles.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> where do you exactly think I got the number for $1 a mile eight months ago.


Your rectal cavity. Then you reverse engineered all the individual numbers to "support" that conclusion.



W00dbutcher said:


> You simply ignore what you want to and dismiss what is true.


I sense you're actually describing yourself and projecting. Just like Teflon Don.

Suffice it to say that the preponderance of contrary evidence provided by @elelegido leads me to believe that your proffered explanations are mere word salad meant to make yourself seem wise. Bask in the feeling as the rest of us chuckle.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> Your rectal cavity. Then you reverse engineered all the individual numbers to "support" that conclusion.


Your proof other then your opinion?

My opinion was later questioned to the source of that $1 opinion which i happy provided my reasoning behind it.



Heisenburger said:


> I sense you're actually describing yourself and projecting. Just like Teflon Don.


I have backed everything I said. Unlike you and @elelegido who just have nothing but your own personal opinions.

To think if we rely on opinion to be truth rather than the fact, the world would be flat and sitting on top of a whale slowly swimming through space with a big huge British Union Jack on its side.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> which i happy provided my reasoning behind it.


Using numbers that aren't relevant to any base of facts, just your unsupported opinion.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> Using numbers that aren't relevant to any base of facts, just your unsupported opinion.


the numbers which you 2 nutters say have no base in facts are not applicable to my market, business need, or the possible future viability of my continuation of rideshare in any way?

Can you prove your opinion?

Cuz I can prove my numbers work in my market. That's facts and not opinion.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Cuz I can prove my numbers work in my market.


 Please do.



W00dbutcher said:


> Can you prove your opinion?


Yes.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> Please do.
> 
> Yes.


I've repeatedly stated my numbers. Which you say are not factual. Even if it is my opinion these numbers will work as an estimate per mile in this market to make you money every single time. What more do you want than that?

The fact is my market pays $0.50 a mile on average for rides that are not longer than 20 miles. I've seen as low as 25 cents a mile in my market. So yeah based on those numbers alone $1 a mile seems pretty good as an estimate.


So now you can go ahead and try to prove how these do not work in my market as an estimate. I'll wait. Seeing how I've went to numerous lengths to explain how I came to the $1 in the first place. The least you can do is try to explain to me why that $1 is not applicable to my market.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Before you start saying well it doesn't work in every Market blah blah blah bullshit, I know this everybody knows this it's not a ****ing secret.

But there's nothing stopping you to make adjustments in that estimate to work in your market. That's the beauty of it it's a ****ing estimate you ( radio edit.)


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Another thing, nobody gave a damn how the $1 price originally was established since the beginning of this upfront pricing bullshit.

It wasn't until it hit more markets that somebody even asked me how I came up with those numbers. So until then nobody really gave a damn until it was an issue in their market.

Because I waited 6 months to explain something doesn't mean I pulled it out of my ass. What it means is nobody cared to ask how I came about to those numbers until then.

Prove me otherwise.


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

W00dbutcher said:


> Prove me otherwise.


Not my job.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> Not my job.


So what is your job if you dont want to verify what someone has told you?

Throwing unfounded accusations around because you're too lazy to verify your accusations? I don't think that's a job, rather it's more like a [ RADIO EDIT.]


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## Heisenburger (Sep 19, 2016)

All but us two have unfollowed. Now I'm joining in the movement.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Heisenburger said:


> All but us two have unfollowed. Now I'm joining in the movement.


Where's your proof in that?


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