# ℹ️ What happens to Uber and Lyft drivers once AB 5 passes? ?



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

https://calmatters.org/economy/2019/09/what-happens-to-uber-and-lyft-drivers-once-ab-5-passes/CALMATTERS SEPTEMBER 5, 2019 

"_It would mean the companies would take on fewer drivers, and assign shifts much as a restaurant or retailer might schedule workers. The companies say that drivers would lose a primary attraction of the platform - flexibility."_


----------



## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

> "We would likely have to exert more control over drivers, telling them where to work, how to work, and who they can work for. Uber would likely hire far fewer drivers than we currently support, and we'd likely have to require a minimum number of hours per week. Scheduling and rigid shifts would become the norm, and Uber would likely prevent drivers from working for other rideshare companies," Uber wrote recently.





> Drivers, he predicts, will lose some flexibility and be prevented from driving more than 40 hours a week to avoid overtime, or even 30 hours a week to avoid healthcare benefits.


Yuuuuup. :whistling:

I suppose I can't blame the full timers for wanting this, but I sure as heck don't want it here in Utah. We're a "right to work", business friendly state however, so I don't see something like this happening anytime soon.

And the only people that are going to make money in this deal are the Unions.


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

losiglow said:


> Yuuuuup. :whistling:
> 
> I suppose I can't blame the full timers for wanting this, but I sure as heck don't want it here in Utah. We're a "right to work", business friendly state however, so I don't see something like this happening anytime soon.
> 
> And the only people that are going to make money in this deal are the Unions.


When the "Full Timer" is given the Drunk ? Shift, Thurs-Saturday,? we will see.
When the "Full Timer" can Not logon during daylight hours, we will see
When the Algorithm tells the "Full Timer" he "May" logon at a designated point 30miles away, we will see.

No cancelling
Accept ALL pings including Pool and multiple stops.

Drive Thrus!!!?("_Driver, order me a #5 with extra mao, hold the pickles, extra large stinky ? fries and a chocolate shake)_

No shuffling

Step out of line, customer complaint, dirty smelly car and you're Fired

A one way ticket to Palookaville ✔


----------



## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

Right. I think this may very well backfire for drivers. In true socialist fashion, they'll be locked into to certain conditions and controlled by the "man". 

Again, I'm all for better pay. We all are. But I'm not convinced this is the way.


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

theyll just be forced to stop firing for cancel rates, start showing details of contracts, then if the less fortunate take rides that don't make them money they cant blame ubet lyft only themselves

they might be forced to pay regulated rates but doubt it, itll just be more transparent less tricks & games

uber lyft is not going pay for maintenance or reimburse miles that would destroy them along with scheduling as a schedule doesn't work with the randomness & logistics of it all, theyre not going to pay workers comp, unemployment, soc sec credits etc etc etc

theyre just still trying to scare folks


----------



## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Also not convinced but something had to be done. I posted in the Toronto forum on this topic that I figured a new class of employee should be created with appropriate labour laws called the gig employee that took into account all the good that comes with being a gig employee and helped end some of the race to the bottom crap.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Cold Fusion said:


> No cancelling
> Accept ALL pings including Pool and multiple stops.
> A one way ticket to Palookaville ✔


The pinging would be over. You are assigned rides automatically. Bend over. They can make things a lot worse than they are. They are proven to be good at it.


----------



## GoldenGoji (Apr 30, 2018)

The ability to work any time and get off of it any time is one of the only good things with this work, as it relates to my personal life. Unfortunately, I have to drive some people I live with to their work before I could do my own thing. Just the way my living situation goes here. So speaking for myself, if all of a sudden we get strict schedules on when we have to drive, then it's definitely gonna cause chaos here at my place. My average number of hours worked per day is 8 to 10, pretty much full time numbers.

Anyway, something that would work for people like myself who have unpredictable schedules and flexibility of time is very important (life isn't the same for everyone) is for there to be some kind of target of working hours per week that you have to fulfil before you can receive the full guaranteed $21/hour that they're proposing. You can start and stop anytime you want, BUT if you don't manage to work, let's say, 40 hours in that week, then you only receive the per mile/minute rate, not the guaranteed $21/hour. 

Basically, the $21/hour is a default minimum earnings for people who actually have managed to accept and drive around passengers for at least 40 hours that week. If let's say, they expect you to drive people around for 40 hours that week, then you'll earn a minimum total of 40 hours * $21/hour = $840. If you made more than $840 from fares that week, you also get to keep that amount.

On the other hand, if you fail to reach the 40 hour requirement, then you're not gonna get that guaranteed $840. Instead, you'll only take what you made from the fares. So if for some reason you got sick and you were only able to work 1 day that week and you only made $75, then you only get $75. If you only worked 39 hours and 59 minutes that week and only ended up with $500, then you only get your $500, not the $840 that people who reach 40 hours are guaranteed.

Anyway those are just my quick thoughts in my attempt to think of a way to retain some flexibility in this kind of work. Definitely needs expert planning and mathematicians. I hope the planners figure something out.


----------



## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Everyone still assumes they will continue to operate. No one brings up the fact that could decide to leave undesirable markets.


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

njn said:


> Everyone still assumes they will continue to operate. No one brings up the fact that could decide to leave undesirable markets.


That would be dangerous.
As other States pass new gig laws
Uber & Lyft can not continually Roll Back.

They and the drivers will adjust.

However, the final verdict may be, it just doesn't work anymore.

Self driving cars "were" the key ? 
But they don't seem plausible in the near future


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

lyft_rat said:


> The pinging would be over. You are assigned rides automatically. Bend over. They can make things a lot worse than they are. They are proven to be good at it.


cool and now that I can show it was free labor or they fired me because i refused to work for free, ill grab that 6 months unemployment as severance & the few times a year i tweak my back im sure will happen again ill go to doctor & get workers comp


----------



## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

Cold Fusion said:


> That would be dangerous.
> As other States pass new gig laws


Other states would see what a disaster ab5 is and refuse to pass gig laws.


----------



## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Cold Fusion said:


> _The companies say that drivers would lose a primary attraction of the platform - flexibility."_


 And you are crying to support these companies. The logic is very simple. I want everything Uber doesn't want. Get it?


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

SuperDumped said:


> theyll just be forced to stop firing for cancel rates, start showing details of contracts, then if the less fortunate take rides that don't make them money they cant blame ubet lyft only themselves
> 
> they might be forced to pay regulated rates but doubt it, itll just be more transparent less tricks & games
> 
> ...


U/l can take more % of the ride, then guarantee you the min wage.
You can do 100,000$ worth of rides in 1 hour, and they can possibly give you min wage .
Drop the rates , do a 50 mile ride in 1 hour, and get your guaranteed min wage... ?
you can only drive for 1 , not both ?
Forced to give rides to pax you might not like ..what if you get a ping from a high crime neighborhood ... ? How many times can you decline ?
If you are avging 30/hr, it will fade to low 20's


----------



## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

First off this is a HORRIBLE idea to make drivers employees! First off... hourly pay only of like $22 a hour will be given. Government cant force a company to pay more than minimum wage ANYWHERE! I make far more than that a hour as it is now working VERY part time! I can't imagine someone in LA NOT making more than that a hour as it sits now! There will be no reimbursement for miles or anything else! Again the government can't force to pay MORE than the minimum! Uber will force these new "employees" to have a manager who will jam a schedule down a drivers throat, force them to drive in certain location (even in unsafe locations), write them up, do performance reviews, and be a over all DB if they want! And we all know based on talking to Mohamed at uber now how bad these people will be with people skills! Geez are VERY expensive health benefits (that will take half of your hourly wage) worth being a employee? No vacation time. Bare minimum sick time. If you think what will happen will be a good thing.... YOUR STUPID!


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

njn said:


> Everyone still assumes they will continue to operate. No one brings up the fact that could decide to leave undesirable markets.


and if that happens another company will take their place...ala Austin Texas...which won't be burdened by SDC costs



Fat Man said:


> First off this is a HORRIBLE idea to make drivers employees! First off... hourly pay only of like $22 a hour will be given. Government cant force a company to pay more than minimum wage ANYWHERE! I make far more than that a hour as it is now working VERY part time! I can't imagine someone in LA NOT making more than that a hour as it sits now! There will be no reimbursement for miles or anything else! Again the government can't force to pay MORE than the minimum! Uber will force these new "employees" to have a manager who will jam a schedule down a drivers throat, force them to drive in certain location (even in unsafe locations), write them up, do performance reviews, and be a over all DB if they want! And we all know based on talking to Mohamed at uber now how bad these people will be with people skills! Geez are VERY expensive health benefits (that will take half of your hourly wage) worth being a employee? No vacation time. Bare minimum sick time. If you think what will happen will be a good thing.... YOUR STUPID!


as employees they must reimburse us for miles and expenses

stop with the lying since you don't know the law



mbd said:


> U/l can take more % of the ride, then guarantee you the min wage.
> You can do 100,000$ worth of rides in 1 hour, and they can possibly give you min wage .
> Drop the rates , do a 50 mile ride in 1 hour, and get your guaranteed min wage... ?
> you can only drive for 1 , not both ?
> ...


that would only happen until the union contract kicks in....then it's bye bye rate cuts


----------



## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

If they continue to operate, the pay will be much closer to the 2020 minimum wage of $13/hr. Uber suggested $21 without employee status. The added cost of benefits will demand a lower hourly rate. You can't have both.

Austin was a nice experiment, none of the startups made headway and the government eventually caved to uber's requests.


----------



## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Or maybe they could start being fair again. 

Closest ant gets the ping.
Destination shown on ping request.
Expected earnings also shown. 
The ability to cancel if we dont like that trip.
Better rates.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Until AB5 passes, all California drivers will have to worry about the $8 an hour before expenses Lyft rates spreading to California.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/lyft...ably-coming-to-your-market-soon.344746/unread


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

mbd said:


> U/l can take more % of the ride, then guarantee you the min wage.
> You can do 100,000$ worth of rides in 1 hour, and they can possibly give you min wage .
> Drop the rates , do a 50 mile ride in 1 hour, and get your guaranteed min wage... ?
> you can only drive for 1 , not both ?
> ...


a 50 miles ride costs me $10 in actual cost well the 40 mile airport ride does so lets say $11+ toll to get there $12, toll to get home $12, yup they have to pay my dead dead miles unless they can guarantee me a ride soon as I drop off or pay me while I wait

$35 actual costs would also take 1.5 hours of minimum wage here is over $11 so add $16.50

i dont do x or pool but the pay about $40 & $20-30 gross for that now with the above theyd have to pay $50+

they could try charging more but good luck with that on those tiers they won't have that predatory pricing advantage so that means people will use many other options

theyd also have to contribute to workers comp, unemployment insurance, fico taxes, etc etc etc

they would also have to hire more salaried employees for each state to figure it all out & mediate false claims against drivers as they couldn't just fire them without evidence from pax if they did thats when unemployment comes in, if you get hurt or in an accident then workers comp comes in

oops got a flat on the way back they'll have to pay that too & my chipped windshield, inspection forms, emissions testing

they will stop firing for cancel rates, start showing the contract or leave cali & head to dallas before all that

theyre just trying to scare people


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

losiglow said:


> And the only people that are going to make money in this deal are the Unions.


.....and the IRS, and Auto Insurance companies, and Doctors (drug testing, DOT physicals), and....

I see a lot more money leaving the driver's hands.



uberdriverfornow said:


> Until AB5 passes, all California drivers will have to worry about the $8 an hour before expenses Lyft rates spreading to California.
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/lyft...ably-coming-to-your-market-soon.344746/unread


It should be noted that the OP of that thread has done a turnaround.

With a few lessons of math and strategy, he has a different view.

Before the new pay structure was even implemented, he started many threads of the same topic, asking drivers to Protest Lyft, Promote Uber, Turn app off, Delete app, Deliver Food Instead, etc.

Now it's in effect, and yes, *he still drives Lyft*, like many others who claim they never will again.

OP went from screaming 30% paycut, to around 15%, to 5-10%, to his latest post where he said:

_"So yesterday I found a way to *make more money* using both apps and Lyfts new pay structure but if I'm strip or downtown it *won't make much of a difference*"_

Quite a transformation!!


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

You have to BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY,

if uber/lyft have their way they will be paying _30c a mile._

It's come down to having legislation being necessary to get them to _follow the law._

There's also no reason i can't think of to uber/lyft still allowing flexibility (given the nature of the app) to a certain extent.

You might just have to mix uber/lyft and a delivery service or 2 if you want to get In 80 hours a week.

If that's reality that's reality.

I do know you'll be making a heck of a lot more if this passes.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I do know you'll be making a heck of a lot more if this passes.


You have tremendous faith in government and Uber to do right by drivers.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Taxi2Uber said:


> You have tremendous faith in government and Uber to do right by drivers.


Here's why i think they will.

For every driver they get off welfare they save $$

For every driver they push out of poverty, they get increased tax revenue.

And all by enforcing a law.

What's the downside?


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Here's why i think they will.
> 
> For every driver they get off welfare they save $$
> 
> ...


That looks a lot like the Govt doing right for the Govt.

It's romantic to think the Govt is looking out for us little guys.

They are pushing this thing for the tax revenue, and whatever else that brings self serving gains.

Union is pushing this thing for the future dues.

These entities care about drivers about as much as Uber cares about drivers.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Taxi2Uber said:


> That looks a lot like the Govt doing right for the Govt.
> 
> It's romantic to think the Govt is looking out for us little guys.
> 
> ...


Are you saying...

If getting working drivers to make enough to pay taxes and get off welfare isn't good for the drivers...

My response is..

Huh?

You have to look at the political motivations here,

There's political motivations to get people in a welfare state off welfare, especially ones who _*are working.*_

Nothing in politics is for the good of the people, it's in the name of a special interest or making yourself look good for election day at the VERY LEAST.

Politics is an ugly business.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Are you saying...
> 
> If getting working drivers to make enough to pay taxes and get off welfare isn't good for the drivers...
> 
> ...


"Huh" is right!

What the hell are you even talking about?

You're trying SO hard to contradict me, as per usual, with anything and everything I've ever said.

SO hard if fact, that you're now just making stuff up, just to argue.

Even when you can't comprehend what I say.

Enough with the trolling. It's tiresome and boring.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Cold Fusion said:


> When the "Full Timer" is given the Drunk ? Shift, Thurs-Saturday,? we will see.
> When the "Full Timer" can Not logon during daylight hours, we will see
> When the Algorithm tells the "Full Timer" he "May" logon at a designated point 30miles away, we will see.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of full timers would put up with all that for a guaranteed base wage.

Personally I would prefer most things to stay the same but with fewer drivers.

A 10%-20% decrease in drivers would probably be the sweet spot for drivers and Uber.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> as employees they must reimburse us for miles and expenses


I Don't have a dog in the race so I'm not advocating any position. BUT, you do realize if you were reimbursed mileage your Taxable Income goes way up as you lost your biggest write off?


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Seamus said:


> I Don't have a dog in the race so I'm not advocating any position. BUT, you do realize if you were reimbursed mileage your Taxable Income goes way up as you lost your biggest write off?


lol are you the type of person that thinks they can donate their way to smaller taxes and increased money in your pocket ?

we will get back way more in reimbursements than you will be saving in taxes ....way more


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lol are you the type of person that thinks they can donate their way to smaller taxes and increased money in your pocket ?
> 
> we will get back way more in reimbursements than you will be saving in taxes ....way more


Yes, I am exactly that type. For me personally, I would never do this for a W2. This is just supplemental income and if it were W2 income I would lose a lot of it in taxes so I would simply stop and do something else. Might be better for some drivers but not me. Last year just with Uber (I do other apps as well) I got 24k part time and only paid $75 in additional tax so for me there is no questions. Good for you if W2 income and a much bigger taxable income would work for you. I doubt you have seriously analyzed the difference though. Look at what the NYC TLC model did for drivers, a much better solution than being W2 employees.

U/L are no doubt going to lose in Cali. Their choice will be to either pull out of the market or raise rider rates closer to Taxi rates, just like NYC. The only reason it improves NYC drivers is because of the number of drivers has been capped. Very simple math, when you already lose money there is no margin to give away! LOL


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Howdee Doo W-2 ?


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

people actually pay taxes on uber lyft? I wish theyd audit me lmao so you want me to pay taxes on this ride that paid $4 gross and took 30+ minutes LMAO not going to do anything about the company paying $3 an hour or sending me trips that any 3rd grader can verify doesn't cover costs but youre going to send some 60+K a year irs agent to spend hours pouring over my $3 receipts haha please do because now all those human trafficking attempts are public record, I wouldn't waste 1 minute of brain power, time, keystrokes, ink on taxes for this ponzi scam I can guarantee the tens of thousands in gas, the $9000+ in repairs, on top of hours online will show its not worth my time & any audit would get media attention for the farce 

irs come with it .60 a mile on billions of receipts Id love to waste your time & prove your partners over at the labor department are complicit in the largest organized crime human trafficking ponzo scam in history


----------



## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

If employee you're subject to performance reviews. Decline a significant percentage of ride requests? Would be like your boss giving you a task and you tell him I don't like that task, I'll wait until you give me one I do like.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Seamus said:


> I Don't have a dog in the race so I'm not advocating any position. BUT, you do realize if you were reimbursed mileage your Taxable Income goes way up as you lost your biggest write off?


I understand that...

I WANT to be making enough that the taxes I owe on driving uber is the same as the taxes i owe driving a taxi I owned myself.

It's entirely acceptable to the IRS to bring in $250 a DAY driving a taxi and only pay tax on $140 of that.

Quite simply... if you own the car yourself you gotta be bringing in $150+ a day. (moreso for more expensive places)


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I understand that...
> 
> I WANT to be making enough that the taxes I owe on driving uber is the same as the taxes i owe driving a taxi I owned myself.
> 
> ...


And If your primary income is this I totally get it. However, If you are already in a much higher income bracket and do this a supplemental income it doesn't work. Don't forget we have a graduated tax rate. Some doing this PT have a good primary source of income but live in a very high cost of living areas and need supplemental income. For some these changes would benefit them, others not. For me, no way is W2 income good. But, by the same token I really don't care. I do enough other cash "side hustles" if this went away I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I am already down to exclusively taking surge (multiplier) rides only. Not surging.....not out.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

percy_ardmore said:


> If employee you're subject to performance reviews. Decline a significant percentage of ride requests? Would be like your boss giving you a task and you tell him I don't like that task, I'll wait until you give me one I do like.


with great mileage rates from the union contract and mileage reimbursements you won't want to decline many trips

and if you're a shitty driver you shouldn't be driving anyhow


----------



## jonhjax (Jun 24, 2016)

SuperDumped said:


> theyll just be forced to stop firing for cancel rates, start showing details of contracts, then if the less fortunate take rides that don't make them money they cant blame ubet lyft only themselves
> 
> they might be forced to pay regulated rates but doubt it, itll just be more transparent less tricks & games
> 
> ...


Uber will pay mileage, workers comp and unemployment. They'll have to if drivers get classed as employees. if they don't pay a living wage they will be replacing drivers left and right and very well could have a difficult time hiring enough drivers. Drivers will just have to drive set schedules and it will be a lot harder for a driver to get fired than some of you think. good luck to you no matter what happens.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

jonhjax said:


> Uber will pay mileage, workers comp and unemployment. They'll have to if drivers get classed as employees. if they don't pay a living wage they will be replacing drivers left and right and very well could have a difficult time hiring enough drivers. Drivers will just have to drive set schedules and it will be a lot harder for a driver to get fired than some of you think. good luck to you no matter what happens.


If there are already too many drivers, willing to drive for less than minimum wage, what makes you think it will be difficult to hire and keep drivers, paying them minimum wage? Minimum wage doesn't equal living wage, by the way.
Also most states, including your FL, don't require employers to pay mileage to employees using their own car.


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

Taxi2Uber said:


> If there are already too many drivers, willing to drive for less than minimum wage, what makes you think it will be difficult to hire and keep drivers, paying them minimum wage? Minimum wage doesn't equal living wage, by the way.
> Also most states, including your FL, don't require employers to pay mileage to employees using their own car.


they do pay miles if its cab & delivery driver LMAO if 96% fail now try only paying minimum wage which wont have daily cash outs haha they can hire they never could keep & if drivers employees they better have a valid reason & proof when they fire or that unemployment on them if they get hurt workers comp on them....

they will be regulated, bought out or bailed out for pennies on the dollar or leave cali for their new dallas digs which serms unlikely as ny already been regulated & san fran / la are their next 2 biggest markets and their 5 biggest markets account for 80% of their "business" so that leaves 2 left london & brazil not in the usa

theyll just stop hiding contract details & firing for cancelling like they were forced for accepting & most drivers complaints would go away, theyll stop firing over baseless accusations with no proof, they may or may not be forced to raise rates & pay minimums regulated by puc, then if the idiots want to be idiots and service rides that don't cover their costs they least had the choice


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

SuperDumped said:


> they do pay miles if its cab & delivery driver LMAO


I'm sure lots of businesses pay miles. Doesn't mean they are required to.
Do you trust Uber to pay miles if they are not required to?


SuperDumped said:


> if 96% fail now


96% of what


----------



## Uber_Dubler (Apr 4, 2018)

losiglow said:


> Right. I think this may very well backfire for drivers. In true socialist fashion, they'll be locked into to certain conditions and controlled by the "man".
> 
> Again, I'm all for better pay. We all are. But I'm not convinced this is the way.


Other than hours, doesn't the man already control us? I didn't volunteer for the 3x pay cuts I've already lived through. 
This weekend a customer cancelled on me after I'd already traveled like 5 minutes to pick the guy up. No cancellation fee. Call support, support says I didn't reach the designated pick-up area in time to receive a rider cancellation charge. I tell support, Ah, it was a surge after a concert, how the hell was I to reach the designated p/u area as if it was normal traffic?


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Seamus said:


> And If your primary income is this I totally get it. However, If you are already in a much higher income bracket and do this a supplemental income it doesn't work. Don't forget we have a graduated tax rate. Some doing this PT have a good primary source of income but live in a very high cost of living areas and need supplemental income. For some these changes would benefit them, others not. For me, no way is W2 income good. But, by the same token I really don't care. I do enough other cash "side hustles" if this went away I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I am already down to exclusively taking surge (multiplier) rides only. Not surging.....not out.


Reality...

Should be getting $20 an hour (FOR ALL TIME ONLINE PLUS TIME ON TRIPS)

if you can make $250+ in 10 hours and only have to pay taxes on half of that?

The tax disadvantage won't be that huge.


----------



## Son of the Darkness (May 8, 2015)

losiglow said:


> And the only people that are going to make money in this deal are the Unions.


And the trust fund politicians that enable them.


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

Taxi2Uber said:


> I'm sure lots of businesses pay miles. Doesn't mean they are required to.
> Do you trust Uber to pay miles if they are not required to?
> 
> 96% of what


drivers labor ants exploited desperate or stupid shitizens

desperate & dumb people do have rights if no one speaks up for them,theyll come for you next lol if youre driving for .60 a mile you are dumb and or desperate sheesh i stopped x when it went to 1.10 as only the airport rides were worth it then thats dumb & desperate too, i get self preservation get it how you live, gotta eat, but you only have a 4% chance at succeeding numbers lie all the time, proven math does not

i ignore and cancel 90+% of xl requests children out here crazy


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Reality...


With all do respect, that is YOUR reality, and as I said this might be good for FT drivers at base rates. I don't know. Drivers forget that there is no homogeneous group of drivers, we all have different circumstances. $20 per hour would be a major pay cut for me so why would I want it. I get it that you can't relate because your market lost the multiplier surge or it never surges, whatever. Not all markets are equal and drivers and their circumstances are very different. Again, this is PT for me and I ONLY drive good surges. This is what I shoot for. Explain to me why I would want to be an employee??? Again, I'm not against drivers becoming W2 earners, just saying I won't do it and I'd be done.


----------



## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

Cold Fusion said:


> https://calmatters.org/economy/2019/09/what-happens-to-uber-and-lyft-drivers-once-ab-5-passes/
> "_It would mean the companies would take on fewer drivers, and assign shifts much as a restaurant or retailer might schedule workers. The companies say that drivers would lose a primary attraction of the platform - flexibility."_


Hey tomato, good to see you getting back on track with emojis in the headline. ✔

Any news on @Ignatz ?
.
.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Leavin


njn said:


> Everyone still assumes they will continue to operate. No one brings up the fact that could decide to leave undesirable markets.


Leaving home because you can make it on home turf and hope to make it outside somewhere easier has never worked in sports, politics, nor business. Imagine a team with a loosing record at home, exited that they get to play on the road. Or a politician who gets eggs thrown at time at rally's in his hometown, thinking ohh but as soon as I get to Washington, I'll make it. Imagine a silicon valley tech company leaving because they can't make it in the valley, but exited that both north, and south Dakoda embrace them.??‍♂



I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> Leavin
> 
> Leaving home because you can make it on home turf and hope to make it outside somewhere easier has never worked in sports, politics, nor business. Imagine a team with a loosing record at home, exited that they get to play on the road. Or a politician who gets eggs thrown at time at rally's in his hometown, thinking ohh but as soon as I get to Washington, I'll make it. Imagine a silicon valley tech company leaving because they can't make it in the valley, but exited that both north, and south Dakoda embrace them.??‍♂


Undesirable market? What does that mean. Like a market with labor, tax, and transportation laws? So they would have to find markets that are lawless. Fine with most of the world. They are banned in many many parts of the world and if they just run, not many markets left in the entire world to run to.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Who is John Galt? said:


> Hey tomato, good to see you getting back on track with emojis in the headline. ✔
> 
> Any news on @Ignatz ?
> .
> .


Don't leave @RabbleRouser out of it! LOL


----------



## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> Undesirable market? What does that mean.


Austin


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Cold Fusion said:


> That would be dangerous.
> As other States pass new gig laws
> Uber & Lyft can not continually Roll Back.
> 
> ...


Self driving cars are now the future.


----------



## UberProphet? (Dec 24, 2014)

MiamiKid said:


> Self driving cars are now the future.


Self driving cars will continue to be the future for the foreseeable future.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

UberProphet? said:


> Self driving cars will continue to be the future for the foreseeable future.


Per Uber Insider: 
Self driving cars have been placed on the fast track.

?


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> Per Uber Insider:
> Self driving cars have been placed on the fast track.
> 
> ?


https://www.ridester.com/uber-drivers-wont-have-to-worry-about-self-driving-cars-for-decades/
*In a stunning statement at a D.Live conference earlier this month, Waymo's CEO, John Krafcik, said it would be decades before fully automated vehicles were ubiquitous. In other words, according to The Information, "Uber and Lyft won't be threatened by self-driving cars anytime soon."*

Krafcik added that, "This is a very long journey. It's a very challenging technology and we're going to take our time."

When asked by CNN if self-driving cars were closer than most people think to being road-ready, he replied, "I would say their first applications are close, ubiquity is further away than most people would believe."

By first applications, he meant we would see cars that would be able to drive in small controlled areas of cities, presumably during the daytime and when weather permitted. (Weather is another big problem for these cars currently).

This is something many close observers have said for a long time. That despite all the media hype that these cars are just around the corner, they are actually a long ways off.

*Why the Hold Up?*
Actually, there is no hold up. The truth is, in my opinion, that these cars have been much farther away from completion than we've been led to believe. When we are shown video clips of driverless cars taking a few laps around a track or told amazing statistics like they've driven millions of miles without an accident, it makes it sound like they're right around the corner. But I don't think they are, or ever have been.

Making a fully automated vehicle is a lot more difficult than it appears. What we're not usually told is that it is much simpler to program a car to drive itself around a well-mapped closed track than it is to design one that can drive anywhere and everywhere at any time day or night, rain sleet or snow.

It's also much easier to build an autonomous vehicle that can travel several square miles of a well-mapped and well-planned area of a city at specific times during perfect weather conditions than it is to let the car loose to travel on its own wherever and whenever it likes. In other words it's much easier to build the first 90 percent of the technology than it is to build the last 10 percent.

Anyone who has paid close attention to autonomous cars has noticed the numerous problems they have encountered. For instance, we often hear how many millions of miles Google's Waymo cars have driven without an accident. But we're rarely told how few miles they can go without human intervention.

That story isn't quite as exciting as watching a car drive itself around a track! So, it doesn't get reported nearly as often - which leaves us all with the misimpression that they're right around the corner.

*An Accident Waiting to Happen Every 13 to 6,000 Miles!*

In 2017, Waymo's cars reportedly drove 6,000 miles before human intervention was necessary. That sounds pretty impressive - and it is. It's amazing humans have been able to develop a car that can drive up to 6,000 miles completely on its own!

But if you think about it for a minute, you'll realize that while that is indeed a great achievement, it's nowhere close to what we need for these cars to fully replace human drivers. Every time these cars require human intervention, the intervention is needed to avoid a possible accident. Without that human intervention we can assume an accident of some kind could have occurred.

To put that in perspective, imagine that you had one accident for every 6,000 miles you drove! Some would be minor mishaps perhaps but others would be serious. And they would happen every 6,000 miles! For many drivers, that would mean having a car accident every other month! And that's truly unacceptable.

For full-time Uber drivers, who drive a ton of miles, they would be having accidents every two to three weeks! When you think about it like that you can see that as impressive as the 6,000-mile figure is, these cars are nowhere near being ready. Waymo's cars are the best of the best and even they fall far behind the performance you would get with any human driver.

To make matters worse, the other autonomous car players are doing much worse. GM's Cruise can only go about 1,500 miles without human intervention.

And to give you an even clearer picture of what's going on in this industry, Uber's self-driving cars - you know, the ones that will supposedly replace all Uber drivers within the next year or two - they require human intervention every 13 miles! Can you imagine having an accident every 13 miles? That would be like having three to four accidents every day for most drivers! Well, that's Uber's self-driving car.

Waymo's cars are in fact 461 times more advanced than Uber's. To put that number in perspective, let's compare it to Uber's surge pricing.

Say you take an Uber trip that would normally cost $15 but this particular trip happens to be at 12:40 a.m. on New Year's Eve when it's pouring down rain and everybody in town is calling for an Uber at the same time. The surge premium has skyrocketed, not to 2 or 3 or 4 times, but to 461 times the normal price. That $15 trip would cost $6,951! That's the difference between the state of Uber's self-driving program and Waymo's.

And that goes a long ways toward explaining why Travis Kalanick was so intent on stealing Waymo's secrets - because Uber was so far behind in the technology and Waymo was so far ahead.

These numbers are probably not even giving us the full picture. Waymo and the other companies test their autonomous vehicles all over the world. And in many places they test, disclosures aren't mandatory. Additionally, all the testing they do on private property never has to be reported.

So, these numbers only account for test drives conducted on public roads in jurisdictions where they are required to report. If we had access to all the numbers, the results might be even worse.

*Why is it So Difficult?*
It's very easy for us humans to underestimate the complexity involved in even the most simple tasks we perform. We look out of the windshield of our car and see a crumpled piece of paper on the road ahead of us and we immediately know that it's not a rock. But a simple task like this s no easy feat for a computer. A self-driving car would swerve around a plastic bag as quickly as it would swerve around a rock!

Another big hurdle is the fact that Waymo's cars are designed to use computerized maps of the areas they drive in. So, before a car can be set loose in an area, Waymo has to send out "learning" cars to drive the specific routes over and over again. The data is then taken in and analyzed by humans and computers before it is ready to be used in the vehicles.

But there's just one little problem with this approach. If any changes are made on the route after the data is fed into the computers, the cars will not be able to recognize or deal with those changes. If, for instance, a city puts up a new stoplight at an intersection the day after the data is collected, the cars will not know that stoplight is there and they won't stop for it.

It would be literally impossible to have these "learning" cars traveling and mapping every single mile of American roads every minute of every day looking for changes. So, this is another huge hurdle they are going to have to overcome before they'll be ready to go.

And since self-driving cars see people as moving pixels, they can't tell the difference between a woman crossing the street or a police officer waving frantically for all cars to keep moving.

Self-driving cars are suffering from the "last-mile" problem, which is where it has taken them ten years to get the cars to 85-90 percent proficiency, but it could take twice that long to finish the last 10 to 15 percent.

It's the same problem you see in a lot of areas of technology. Like machine language translation. If you've used Google Translate over the last few years you've seen a vast improvement. However, it's still not quiet there. It still spits out translations that are awkward at best and incomprehensible at worst.

Now, imagine that program is driving your car. Every time it spits out an awkward translation - that's a car accident.

The first machine language translation was achieved in 1954. Researchers who worked on the project expressed their belief that machine translation would be a solved problem within three to five years! Well, here we are 65 years later, with vastly superior computer technology - and it's still not completely solved.

*Why is There So Much Hype if Self-Driving Cars Are Not Even Close to Ready?*

Most of the hype comes from the media, which loves this story because it's exciting and new and it makes for great click-bait. But it is also helped along a bit by companies like Uber who often publicly brag that they're very close to making this a reality. Why they do that, when there's so much work left to do before they are truly ready, we can't know for sure. But an upcoming IPO might have something to do with it.

If investors believe this technology is just about ready for prime time it would increase their confidence that Uber would be a good investment, because it should cut their driver costs tremendously. And that would make them far more profitable than they are today. So, it could help their initial stock offering price if investors think the technology isn't that far off.

*What This Means for Rideshare Drivers*
This means Uber and Lyft drivers who have come to rely on the income they make from driving - don't have anything to worry about. At least probably not for 20-30 years or so. Not only do numerous technical details have to be ironed out but then you're going to have a massive amount of regulatory problems that will have to be worked out, as well as insurance problems.

The autonomous car companies are either going to have to figure out a better more efficient way to do mapping or they're going to have to ditch mapping altogether. Or possibly use a blend of mapping and coordination with every city and county in the nation which could feed them any and all road changes they make.

But, if you're an Uber, Lyft or any other kind of driver who makes an income from driving, it looks like your simple human ability to drive a car is going to far surpass those of machines for decades to come.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Seamus said:


> With all do respect, that is YOUR reality, and as I said this might be good for FT drivers at base rates. I don't know. Drivers forget that there is no homogeneous group of drivers, we all have different circumstances. $20 per hour would be a major pay cut for me so why would I want it. I get it that you can't relate because your market lost the multiplier surge or it never surges, whatever. Not all markets are equal and drivers and their circumstances are very different. Again, this is PT for me and I ONLY drive good surges. This is what I shoot for. Explain to me why I would want to be an employee??? Again, I'm not against drivers becoming W2 earners, just saying I won't do it and I'd be done.
> 
> View attachment 354068


You won't be making that when the 35 cents a mile rates hit your market.

You can wake up tomorrow and be driving for half of what you are now.

And it sounds like you have no problem with that.



MiamiKid said:


> Per Uber Insider:
> Self driving cars have been placed on the fast track.
> 
> ?


SDC's are fiction.




Taxi2Uber said:


> I'm sure lots of businesses pay miles. Doesn't mean they are required to.
> Do you trust Uber to pay miles if they are not required to?
> 
> 96% of what


as employees they will be required to or get sued like Papa Johns did


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

uberdriverfornow said:


> You won't be making that when the 35 cents a mile rates hit your market.
> 
> You can wake up tomorrow and be driving for half of what you are now.
> 
> And it sounds like you have no problem with that.


My strategy for years is reliant on the few hours of the surge multiplier. The day that goes away in my market I'm done and yes, I'm ok with that. Never going to drive pax around for base rates regardless of what the rates are they most likely won't be enough to make this gig worthwhile. By my calculations you need a MINIMUM of approx $1.25 to $1.50/mile to make any financial sense. Don't think we will be seeing that any time soon.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> You won't be making that when the 35 cents a mile rates hit your market.
> 
> You can wake up tomorrow and be driving for half of what you are now.
> 
> ...


Self driving is needed to replace inefficient drivers. ?


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> as employees they will be required to or get sued like Papa Johns did


Not quite.
The simple fact of being an employee, doesn't mean an employer is required to reimburse mileage in most states.
I was responding to the FL guy, where it's not required.
In your CA, and couple other states, I believe mileage reimbursement is required, by varying methods.

In the Papa John's case, the issue was minimum wage.
The drivers were alleging they were earning less than minimum wage after expenses, without receiving any reimbursement.
If it was found the drivers WERE earning at least min wage after expenses, Papa John would not have to reimburse mileage, in states where it's not required.


----------



## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

MiamiKid said:


> Per Uber Insider:
> Self driving cars have been placed on the fast track.
> 
> ?


Is the 'fast track' still located at Tempe, Arizona?

.


----------



## MarkR (Jul 26, 2015)

Cold Fusion said:


> https://calmatters.org/economy/2019/09/what-happens-to-uber-and-lyft-drivers-once-ab-5-passes/
> "_It would mean the companies would take on fewer drivers, and assign shifts much as a restaurant or retailer might schedule workers. The companies say that drivers would lose a primary attraction of the platform - flexibility."_


It means open a square account and every person you see, give them your card.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Not quite.
> The simple fact of being an employee, doesn't mean an employer is required to reimburse mileage in most states.
> I was responding to the FL guy, where it's not required.
> In your CA, and couple other states, I believe mileage reimbursement is required, by varying methods.
> ...


lol expenses are what you get reimbursed for duh


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> I think a lot of full timers would put up with all that for a guaranteed base wage.
> 
> Personally I would prefer most things to stay the same but with fewer drivers.
> 
> A 10%-20% decrease in drivers would probably be the sweet spot for drivers and Uber.


Not this full timer. I work when I want to work and stop when I want to stop. There are lot of full time gigs I could have that pay better. I'm here for the flexability.


----------



## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> and if that happens another company will take their place...ala Austin Texas...which won't be burdened by SDC costs
> 
> 
> as employees they must reimburse us for miles and expenses
> ...


Yeah, saw the teamsters are behind all of this which means they just want your union dues and will be sending Angelo around to collect. One article mentioned that 6100+ California drivers in one district will be let go. Who knows if thats really true though but if your under a 4.85 you should probably start looking for work. Personally, I would quit if made to be an employee.


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> lol expenses are what you get reimbursed for duh


It's no wonder you need a nanny state to take care of you. You don't understand how anything works. Nearly everything you say is wrong. It's remarkable.


----------



## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

TBone said:


> Yeah, saw the teamsters are behind all of this which means they just want your union dues and will be sending Angelo around to collect. One article mentioned that 6100+ California drivers in one district will be let go. Who knows if thats really true though but if your under a 4.85 you should probably start looking for work. Personally, I would quit if made to be an employee.


union dues pay those that worked to get you a great union contract that gives you great pay and benefits

i don't work for free, drivers don't work for free, and neither do union workers



Taxi2Uber said:


> It's no wonder you need a nanny state to take care of you. You don't understand how anything works. Nearly everything you say is wrong. It's remarkable.


It's remarkable how you can lie about someone being wrong when it's always shown you are wrong

if I want to show someone is wrong, I simply prove it



Kevin Kargel said:


> Not this full timer. I work when I want to work and stop when I want to stop. There are lot of full time gigs I could have that pay better. I'm here for the flexability.


and drivers will work when they want when AB5 passes

AB5 changes nothing


----------



## Vishnu643 (Aug 23, 2017)

SuperDumped said:


> theyll just be forced to stop firing for cancel rates, start showing details of contracts, then if the less fortunate take rides that don't make them money they cant blame ubet lyft only themselves
> 
> they might be forced to pay regulated rates but doubt it, itll just be more transparent less tricks & games
> 
> ...


what you just said is scary enough. And what makes you think Uber wont force set time schedules for every rider? Uber is not the people's company, it's a private company. AB5 just forces their hand to be as restrictive as they like.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

TBone said:


> Yeah, saw the teamsters are behind all of this which means they just want your union dues and will be sending Angelo around to collect. One article mentioned that 6100+ California drivers in one district will be let go. Who knows if thats really true though but if your under a 4.85 you should probably start looking for work. Personally, I would quit if made to be an employee.


I'm a part of the teamsters at my real job. Union dues are around $50 per month but the benefits package from the company/union contract is $700-$1200 per month.

That's without factoring any employee pay, bonuses, incentives.

Don't let political propaganda trick you out of your money. ?


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

Vishnu643 said:


> what you just said is scary enough. And what makes you think Uber wont force set time schedules for every rider? Uber is not the people's company, it's a private company. AB5 just forces their hand to be as restrictive as they like.


to much randomnesses to schedule i honestly dont care what they do, i hope an asteroid strikes headquarters, they all get life in prison on death row, & their entire blood lines get cancer in every hole & I make good money with them, what theyre doing to senior citizens, immigrants, & desperate folks who just want a fair days pay for a risky job is evil, disgusting, & illegal, I was good before them will be good after


----------



## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Here's why i think they will.
> 
> For every driver they get off welfare they save $$
> 
> ...


Too many drivers and not enough rides. That is why they WILL implement a utilization rate. Turn off drivers that are flooding an area and other bs. It's all being done in NYC. Just wait until SEIU starts bending drivers over.



uberdriverfornow said:


> union dues pay those that worked to get you a great union contract that gives you great pay and benefits
> 
> i don't work for free, drivers don't work for free, and neither do union workers
> 
> ...


If there are more drivers than rides how does u/l pay the drivers who are online and not receiving ride request? Drivers are not going to get paid for having an empty car. That is why there will be a utilization rate. As well as drivers being forced offline due to over saturation.

Then there is SEIU. Since no one is taking this warning seriously I'll just wait to say, "I told you so". SEIU see the money and not the member.



TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> I'm a part of the teamsters at my real job. Union dues are around $50 per month but the benefits package from the company/union contract is $700-$1200 per month.
> 
> That's without factoring any employee pay, bonuses, incentives.
> 
> Don't let political propaganda trick you out of your money. ?


You are not part of SEIU. It's the union that no one wants to be a part of.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> If there are more drivers than rides how does u/l pay the drivers who are online and not receiving ride request?


You won't get that job just by signing up anymore because less drivers will be needed because they will work harder on full 8 hour assigned shifts.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

It's all a guess at this point. For sure this will add major costs to operate in Cali. My guess is "employees" will be limited to <30 hours so no benefits paid. Even if benefits are paid they will be like a lot of other company offered benefits that are crappy and you have to pay a % of the cost to participate.

You will probably have to sign up for blocks of time just like other apps already do. Utilization rate for sure! Nobody is going to get paid to sit around in their car.

Some will like it. Especially the ants who have never figured out strategy and blindly ant around struggling to make $12-$15 per hour. Now they will be "guaranteed" to make the defined minimum. Something to aspire to! LOL.


----------



## dmoney155 (Jun 12, 2017)

Cold Fusion said:


> https://calmatters.org/economy/2019/09/what-happens-to-uber-and-lyft-drivers-once-ab-5-passes/
> "_It would mean the companies would take on fewer drivers, and assign shifts much as a restaurant or retailer might schedule workers. The companies say that drivers would lose a primary attraction of the platform - flexibility."_


So in short, few would get some crappy government benefits, most will be pan handling. Great, good job guys... keep up the whining, it really helps you out. SUckers.


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

1.75 per mile instead of .60 for starts that's ny $7 minimum fare instead of $3-4 gross



TBone said:


> Yeah, saw the teamsters are behind all of this which means they just want your union dues and will be sending Angelo around to collect. One article mentioned that 6100+ California drivers in one district will be let go. Who knows if thats really true though but if your under a 4.85 you should probably start looking for work. Personally, I would quit if made to be an employee.


they want 50$ a month thats fine by me if i get $1.75 per mile like ny and $7 minimum fares which ill still ignore & cancel like ny, with unemployment & workers comp protections

cool beans $1.20+ a mile ill actually turn x back on, show me details of contracts before hand ill accept the eats & x rides that make sense


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> Too many drivers and not enough rides. That is why they WILL implement a utilization rate. Turn off drivers that are flooding an area and other bs. It's all being done in NYC. Just wait until SEIU starts bending drivers over.
> 
> 
> If there are more drivers than rides how does u/l pay the drivers who are online and not receiving ride request? Drivers are not going to get paid for having an empty car. That is why there will be a utilization rate. As well as drivers being forced offline due to over saturation.
> ...


The guy I quoted said teamsters, I can vouch for teamsters. This SEIU isn't something I can put my word behind.


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> Per Uber Insider:
> Self driving cars have been placed on the fast track.
> 
> ?


You should be reading the Autonomous forum instead of listening to an Uber "insider".


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Per Uber Insider:
> Self driving cars have been placed on the fast track.
> 
> ?


https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/16/w...6200-riders-in-its-first-month-in-california/


----------



## jonhjax (Jun 24, 2016)

Taxi2Uber said:


> If there are already too many drivers, willing to drive for less than minimum wage, what makes you think it will be difficult to hire and keep drivers, paying them minimum wage? Minimum wage doesn't equal living wage, by the way.
> Also most states, including your FL, don't require employers to pay mileage to employees using their own car.


They may not, but how many companies actually do that, especially ones with employees like delivery drivers. Make them ICs and pay them per mile, yes, but make delivery drivers employees and not reimburse them in some way for use of their cars, I doubt very many do that. I delivered part time for Pizza Hut for several years and was paid an hourly rate plus money for each delivery I made and kept all of my tips, except the percentage that was required to be withheld by law.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Cold Fusion said:


> When the "Full Timer" is given the Drunk ? Shift, Thurs-Saturday,? we will see.
> When the "Full Timer" can Not logon during daylight hours, we will see
> When the Algorithm tells the "Full Timer" he "May" logon at a designated point 30miles away, we will see.
> 
> ...


THE SKY IS FALLING!

1. This is in CA (for now) not the rest of us.
2. Uber has already said they have evaluated the law and it doesn't apply to them so they will ignore it (as they've done with other laws they don't like).
4. Governor Newsome has not closed the door on negotiating a way to make things work for all parties - and is ACTIVELY working with Uber and Lyft and DoorDash to find common ground.
3. No one knows what WILL happen... will this effect everyone the same way? Will FTer get to choose to be employees? Will part-timers have an IC option?

Stare into your crystal balls all you want...
WE DON'T KNOW yet.

The abosolute worst thing that could come of this is that you might have to get a paper route (since paper carriers are exempted from the law, lol!)


----------



## jonhjax (Jun 24, 2016)

Taxi2Uber said:


> Not quite.
> The simple fact of being an employee, doesn't mean an employer is required to reimburse mileage in most states.
> I was responding to the FL guy, where it's not required.
> In your CA, and couple other states, I believe mileage reimbursement is required, by varying methods.
> ...


Do you think drivers in Florida would make minimum wage or better after expenses?


----------



## Michael - Cleveland (Jan 1, 2015)

Cold Fusion said:


> https://calmatters.org/economy/2019/09/what-happens-to-uber-and-lyft-drivers-once-ab-5-passes/CALMATTERS SEPTEMBER 5, 2019


That opinion piece was written more than a week before the final bill was passed.
Not sayin' it's right or wrong in it's assumptions and predictions - just sayin', it's an opinion piece.



Taxi2Uber said:


> Not quite.
> The simple fact of being an employee, doesn't mean an employer is required to reimburse mileage in most states.
> I was responding to the FL guy, where it's not required.
> In your CA, and couple other states, I believe mileage reimbursement is required, by varying methods.


https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit.../can-an-employer-refuse-to-reimburse-expenses​​excerpt . . .​*How Might an Employer Refuse to Reimburse Expenses Unlawfully?*​Some employers may try to avoid reimbursing employees for business expenses as a way of effectively outsourcing their business costs to employees. For example, if an employee is required to wear a uniform, uniforms should be part of the employer's operating costs. If the employer requires the employee to purchase his or her own uniform, and does not reimburse them for it, the employer is effectively outsourcing their business costs to their employees This is *unlawful*, but it can sometimes occur.​​In other cases, employers may improperly classify employees as independent contractors to avoid reimbursing them for expenses. Independent contractors are not owed reimbursements, while employees are. This is effectively a way an employer may refuse to reimburse expenses and get around California law.​
AND
(this is news to me - and very important to note...)
​https://www.timesheets.com/blog/2016/01/when-employers-have-to-reimburse-employee-expenses/​​While federal law does not require employers to reimburse employee expenses and mileage, some states, such as California, do. Furthermore, *federal law does require that employers pay minimum wage. When the cost of the expense causes the employee to drop below the minimum wage, the employer does have to reimburse mileage and expenses*.​​​"Wages must be paid free and clear of impermissible deductions -​such as the costs of operating the vehicle or traveling on the road -​that would reduce pay below the federal minimum."-DOL​​What this means is that an employee needs to make minimum wage after subtracting any business incurred expenses from their regular wage.​​For example, if an employee works full time, making $7.25 per hour but spends $20 per week on gas for the company car, then her real wage is $6.75. To get this number, I multiplied $7.25 times 40 hours, subtracted 20 bucks, and then divided it by 40 hours to get my new wage. $6.75 is below the federal minimum wage. Under these circumstances, the employer would be violating the minimum wage law.​
This is gonna be interesting - get your popcorn (and if you just finished undergrad work, consider Law School... this is gonna take a lot of lawyers to argue in courts all over the country for a long time).


----------



## Uarefree (Sep 19, 2019)

Cold Fusion said:


> https://calmatters.org/economy/2019/09/what-happens-to-uber-and-lyft-drivers-once-ab-5-passes/CALMATTERS SEPTEMBER 5, 2019
> 
> "_It would mean the companies would take on fewer drivers, and assign shifts much as a restaurant or retailer might schedule workers. The companies say that drivers would lose a primary attraction of the platform - flexibility."_


I am basically a full timer.
When I heard and read about AB5, first thought was,
Uber's Over.
Now what will I do, I'm spoiled!!!


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Cold Fusion said:


> Self driving cars "were" the key ?
> But they don't seem plausible in the near future


It's official. *The Tomato has finally thrown in the towel!! *


----------



## Uarefree (Sep 19, 2019)

goneubering said:


> It's official. *The Tomato has finally thrown in the towel!! :wink:You are Hella funny!!!*


 Two rideshares, same company.
Uber for the O.G.Uber who goes with tradition, independence, and if you will, commando. Lot a b**ls, cause he's not afraid to go without protection.
Then there's Uber for Newber, willing to sacrifice a few things for security; their independence, flexibility, childcare, and probably a small wage decrease/for disabilty/workmens comp. and no longer self-employed.
Gotta be a way to meet in the middle.
I'm a Female O.G. Uber driver, btw


----------

