# Do you use a Ford vehicle for Uber?



## Unleaded (Feb 16, 2018)

Beginning in 2007 and continuing through the present, Ford has equipped millions of vehicles sold under the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury brand names with the Ford Cyclone Engine, also known as the Duratec engine. Unbeknownst to purchasers and lessees of these vehicles, the Ford Cyclone Engine contains a defect in design, manufacturing, materials and/or workmanship that causes the water pump to suddenly and prematurely fail—before the end of the useful life of the engine—and can lead to catastrophic engine failure for which will the engine repairs and/or engine replacement em will become your sole and expensive responsibility. Has anyone experienced this issue with the Ford (and other Ford-related)vehicles) they use for Uber?


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## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

The Duratec name has become somewhat generic now for Ford engines, going back to the early 90’s. The Cyclone engine has no resemblance at all in regards to the original Duratec design.
Doesn’t matter what engine is in play anymore, shit can happen when there’s a lot of moving parts involved. Keep your oil changed on time and say your prayers at night.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Ford has a niche in this world, it isn't passenger cars.

I do sometimes use a ford taxi thou, when i can get a van the companies vans are ford Transit Vans.

They run perfectly fine but if you don't need a van that can seat 7 or 8 passengers and like 12 suitcases there's really no point in going that big. Also they are really hard on the gas compared to most X vehicles or even Xls.


PERSONALLY, i would use a Camry hybrid or a Sienna Minivan.


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## Unleaded (Feb 16, 2018)

Uber's Guber said:


> The Duratec name has become somewhat generic now for Ford engines, going back to the early 90's. The Cyclone engine has no resemblance at all in regards to the original Duratec design.
> Doesn't matter what engine is in play anymore, shit can happen when there's a lot of moving parts involved. Keep your oil changed on time and say your prayers at night.


Keeping your oil changed is a great tip, but with these Cyclone/Duratec engines, the water pump is encased inside the engine block abd is chain driven. When the water pump breaks prematurely, it leaks and mixes coolant with the engine oil and the oil in the oil pan. There is a tube that shoots oil to the oil pump and this deadly mixture of oil and coolant can cause the engine to seize with no advance warning resulting in complete and total engine failure. When it happens, it's all in you because Ford is in complete denial.


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## Nina2 (Oct 6, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Ford has a niche in this world, it isn't passenger cars.
> 
> I do sometimes use a ford taxi thou, when i can get a van the companies vans are ford Transit Vans.
> 
> ...


The transits are terrible for Uber 
They get less MPG then other XL and have terrible ride quality and poor resale value due to the huge fleet sales and discounts like over 90 percent of transits were sold to fleets 
Ford thought that resale would improve when they replaced the E series with the Transit but sadly Ford forgot to stop fleet sales
Funny one of the engine optiops on the transit is the 3.7 cyclone along with the good 3.5 ecoboost and the horrible 3.2 Power stroke diesel


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Funny story about a Ford and a water pump: I had a moderate front end crash (non-totalled) in a Ford Focus and the only actual engine part that broke was the water pump. The collision repair shop and the insurance adjuster had never seen that sort of water pump complete failure after that sort of crash. But that’s a Ford and a water pump, I guess.


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## Wrb06wrx (Sep 20, 2017)

Unleaded said:


> Keeping your oil changed is a great tip, but with these Cyclone/Duratec engines, the water pump is encased inside the engine block abd is chain driven. When the water pump breaks prematurely, it leaks and mixes coolant with the engine oil and the oil in the oil pan. There is a tube that shoots oil to the oil pump and this deadly mixture of oil and coolant can cause the engine to seize with no advance warning resulting in complete and total engine failure. When it happens, it's all in you because Ford is in complete denial.


A friend of mine had a ford edge he bought for his daughter do this, he bought used at 38k lasted til 165ish then catastrophic failure he debated fixing it in his garage himself for about 3weeks before he just said eff it and sold it the mechanic that offered him like 1500 cash for it and he cosigned for a crv


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## UberSchmuber (Mar 2, 2016)

I bought a Ford Taurus X in December of 2015 with the specific intent of doing XL & Plus fares. To that end and 138000 miles later (on top of the 149000 it had when I bought) it has been a great & dependable vehicle for me. I run it with Royal Purple and Mobil 1 synthetic filters which have been good for 12000 intervals. Considering my mighty T Rex still purrs like a kitten and shines like a jewel, I might get the pump changed at 300k as a preventative measure. It's cheaper than buying a newer car and if I sell it, it's reassurance for the next owner.

.


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## Classical Telecaster (Dec 12, 2019)

Not Uber, but I drive what is IMO a nice 2013 Ford Escape Titanium for Lyft. It has the 2.0 EcoBoost engine. It is snappy in town and merging on the the highway) lots of downtown interchanges with short ramps to get up to speed. Get LOTS on compliments on the SUV; many think it is new. 

Heard about the Duratec and 1.6 EcoBoost problems. I would have a hard time driving either of those with confidence.


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## Unleaded (Feb 16, 2018)

Classical Telecaster said:


> Not Uber, but I drive what is IMO a nice 2013 Ford Escape Titanium for Lyft. It has the 2.0 EcoBoost engine. It is snappy in town and merging on the the highway) lots of downtown interchanges with short ramps to get up to speed. Get LOTS on compliments on the SUV; many think it is new.
> 
> Heard about the Duratec and 1.6 EcoBoost problems. I would have a hard time driving either of those with confidence.


Rather than assist victimized drivers in their affected 2007 to present vehicles, Ford has turned a deaf ear to the problem. The vehicle lessees and owners just had to bear the cost of engine rebuilding or replacement at their own expense ($7-10,000) in order to use their vehicles for their livelihoods, whether Uber, Lyft or whatever. And now, rather than accepting liability and responsibility for this design and manufacturing flaw, Ford's new design for 2020 models is to remove the water pumps from inside the engine. I guess that stuff happens and the American consumer gets the shaft again. A good reason not to buy Ford vehicles, but that won't happen.


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## Classical Telecaster (Dec 12, 2019)

I have had many makes of cars over years, in large part because from ‘84 through ‘04 I had a company car of my choice which was replaced every year or so. During that era I had two Ford Tauruses. One was a fairly standard model the year Ford introduced the Taurus which was replaced with a loaded one eighteen months later. Both were okay. As I was not paying for them or their maintenance I really do not recall a problem except the second did start burning a quart of oil every thousand miles or so. Probably would have had been annoyed, but was able to chuck the Taurus for a nice Jeep Grand Cherokee which was just brought to the market.

My first car was a ‘59 T-Bird. Long story and not a lot of fun. Had two Pintos and neither blew up. In March when I found my Escape with only 18k miles it sounded like a great deal. Really proved to be an excellent rideshare set of wheels.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Nina2 said:


> The transits are terrible for Uber
> They get less MPG then other XL and have terrible ride quality and poor resale value due to the huge fleet sales and discounts like over 90 percent of transits were sold to fleets
> Ford thought that resale would improve when they replaced the E series with the Transit but sadly Ford forgot to stop fleet sales
> Funny one of the engine optiops on the transit is the 3.7 cyclone along with the good 3.5 ecoboost and the horrible 3.2 Power stroke diesel


OK...

SO i mentioned the poor fuel economy, I did honest...


Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Also they are really hard on the gas compared to most X vehicles or even Xls.


And selling them to fleets?

You mean like the only ones i have ever driven?

I could NOT make the transit van work using Orlando uber rates. I rack up gas bills like i used to get on crown victorias when gas was over $3.00 a gallon.

But, the niche for the Transit van isn't on uber, it's for something like this, and im not going to link a pic to a Mears taxi vehicle either, I promise.










Unless you can get _$2.00 a MILE_ AND regularly get fares with 6+ passengers plus piles and piles of luggage it's NOT the choice.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Unleaded said:


> Beginning in 2007 and continuing through the present, Ford has equipped millions of vehicles sold under the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury brand names with the Ford Cyclone Engine, also known as the Duratec engine. Unbeknownst to purchasers and lessees of these vehicles, the Ford Cyclone Engine contains a defect in design, manufacturing, materials and/or workmanship that causes the water pump to suddenly and prematurely fail-before the end of the useful life of the engine-and can lead to catastrophic engine failure for which will the engine repairs and/or engine replacement em will become your sole and expensive responsibility. Has anyone experienced this issue with the Ford (and other Ford-related)vehicles) they use for Uber?


We know Ford cant build transmissions.

Now they cant build waterpumps & engines either ?

" FORD - DEFECTS ARE JOB NUMBER1 !"


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I drive a 2011 Ford Explorer with the “water pump” fatal flaw. There’s another thread hear that discusses this issue. 

Except for this issue the ford has treated me pretty good. I bought it with 50000 miles, and put 20000 miles on it before I started with Uber. Two years later the car is at 218000 miles

So I learned about the water pump issue here. I watched a ton of you tube videos, talked to several mechanics and came to a decision.

I did a preemptive water pump-ectomy. And since the engine was opened up, replaced everything else that was in there. (Timing chain, timing chain guides, front crank seal and the oil pump) 

It was pretty clear that the water pump bearings were worn so I’m glad I did it but I won’t be happy until I get another 100000 miles behind me


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Unleaded said:


> Beginning in 2007 and continuing through the present, Ford has equipped millions of vehicles sold under the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury brand names with the Ford Cyclone Engine, also known as the Duratec engine. Unbeknownst to purchasers and lessees of these vehicles, the Ford Cyclone Engine contains a defect in design, manufacturing, materials and/or workmanship that causes the water pump to suddenly and prematurely fail-before the end of the useful life of the engine-and can lead to catastrophic engine failure for which will the engine repairs and/or engine replacement em will become your sole and expensive responsibility. Has anyone experienced this issue with the Ford (and other Ford-related)vehicles) they use for Uber?


Who in their right mind would want a FORD.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

They don’t call it ‘Fix Or Repair Daily’ for nothing.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

peteyvavs said:


> Who in their right mind would want a FORD.


No question I may not be in my right mind but Fords have been good to me and I'll buy another one if the one I have doesn't last as long as I do. But I really believe my daughter will take my keys before the car finally craps out


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> Who in their right mind would want a FORD.


That's why I'm staying with V8 GMs. :biggrin:


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## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

Unleaded said:


> Beginning in 2007 and continuing through the present, Ford has equipped millions of vehicles sold under the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury brand names with the Ford Cyclone Engine, also known as the Duratec engine. Unbeknownst to purchasers and lessees of these vehicles, the Ford Cyclone Engine contains a defect in design, manufacturing, materials and/or workmanship that causes the water pump to suddenly and prematurely fail-before the end of the useful life of the engine-and can lead to catastrophic engine failure for which will the engine repairs and/or engine replacement em will become your sole and expensive responsibility. Has anyone experienced this issue with the Ford (and other Ford-related)vehicles) they use for Uber?


i used a ford fiesta , dual clutch automatic transmission failed , cost $2000 parts and labor at dealer, private transmission shops did not want to touch it because this type of ford transmission had a few known issues . pathetic.


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Unleaded said:


> Beginning in 2007 and continuing through the present, Ford has equipped millions of vehicles sold under the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury brand names with the Ford Cyclone Engine, also known as the Duratec engine. Unbeknownst to purchasers and lessees of these vehicles, the Ford Cyclone Engine contains a defect in design, manufacturing, materials and/or workmanship that causes the water pump to suddenly and prematurely fail-before the end of the useful life of the engine-and can lead to catastrophic engine failure for which will the engine repairs and/or engine replacement em will become your sole and expensive responsibility. Has anyone experienced this issue with the Ford (and other Ford-related)vehicles) they use for Uber?


I count 4 generations of auto industry-related workers in my family (Ford, Chevy mostly).

America hasn't produced good cars since the 70s & you couldn't pay me to drive an American made car.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

All cars have issues, And need maintenance. There are very few components that you can expect to last forever; water pumps among them

When it comes to my personal car, if the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the car it’s time for something new

My Uber Explorer is a different story, it’s a work vehicle. That cost of repair to value of the car ratio is not anything I consider. What I look at is the cost of repair to expected income ratio. Bottom line is that I can pay for the $2200 repair/maintenance in two weeks. I budget $3500 a year for maintenance and repairs and this job didn’t bust the budget. 

I may be singing a different tune if I don’t get another 100000 miles out of this thing. I’ll let you know what happens this time next year


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

My 2007 Focus has 250K miles on it with no signs of giving up the ghost yet.


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## UbaBrah (Oct 25, 2019)

I've driven Fords all my life and they've been super dependable for me. Tens of thousands of hassle-free miles. That's why I keep going back. I don't have much hesitation or fear with buying a used one either (after a few basic checks). A water pump (or anything else really) can fail on any vehicle at any time. I don't go for those sensationalist YouTube videos which highlight one particular flaw and then say whatever just for clickbait. If I did, I'd only ever buy a Lexus or Toyota. Ditch people like Scotty Kilmer and Doug DeMuro or anyone else trying to shout louder than the rest.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

UbaBrah said:


> Ditch people like Scotty Kilmer and Doug DeMuro or anyone else trying to shout louder than the rest.


I kind of agree with this. Kilmer generalizes about entire brands of cars without considering that one single model of a single brand might be worse than an entire brand of cars. If he knows his stuff he is entirely compromised by being unable to avoid painting with too broad a brush.

DeMuro appears to know nothing more about cars than an excited child might.


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## Ssgcraig (Jul 8, 2015)

Yes.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

UbaBrah said:


> I've driven Fords all my life and they've been super dependable for me. Tens of thousands of hassle-free miles. That's why I keep going back. I don't have much hesitation or fear with buying a used one either (after a few basic checks). A water pump (or anything else really) can fail on any vehicle at any time. I don't go for those sensationalist YouTube videos which highlight one particular flaw and then say whatever just for clickbait. If I did, I'd only ever buy a Lexus or Toyota. Ditch people like Scotty Kilmer and Doug DeMuro or anyone else trying to shout louder than the rest.


You are right about water pumps. They all fail sooner or later and it's a $200 repair. What makes this Ford engine unique is that when the water pump fails, it can take the whole engine with it.


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## DoYouEvenLyft? (Apr 11, 2019)

I'm looking to get a Ford Crown Victoria to uber in. I had a:

*2000 Ford Taurus
*2008 Crown Vic, police interceptor
*2010 Ford Expedition

None needed major repairs while I owned them. I owned each for about 3 years. The newer Duratec engines scare me. Due to the internal water pump. 

I was looking at a newer Explorer/Taurus SHO, but the Taurus SHO had reported problems of turbos failing and bad water pumps. Explorer were plagued with issues as well.

I love Ford, but their quality control went down the drain.


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

Nina2 said:


> The transits are terrible for Uber
> They get less MPG then other XL and have terrible ride quality and poor resale value due to the huge fleet sales and discounts like over 90 percent of transits were sold to fleets
> Ford thought that resale would improve when they replaced the E series with the Transit but sadly Ford forgot to stop fleet sales
> Funny one of the engine optiops on the transit is the 3.7 cyclone along with the good 3.5 ecoboost and the horrible 3.2 Power stroke diesel


I'm pretty sure that Transit is not even allowed on Uber ... Transit Connect might be, which is a completely different vehicle.



Classical Telecaster said:


> My first car was a '59 T-Bird. Long story and not a lot of fun.


I love those square Birds. Best looking body style in Thunderbird's history IMO.

I had a lot of Fords over the past 20 years or so. '91 Taurus, '92 Escort, '00 Mustang, '05 Focus, '05 F-150, '08 Fusion, '08 Mustang GT, etc. Most were fairly reliable, although none were used for ride sharing. Ford's trucks have really good resale value - I bought my '05 F-150 brand new for $21,000 and sold it 8 years later for $15,000 (although it did had less than 40,000 miles on the odometer).


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## UberSchmuber (Mar 2, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> We know Ford cant build transmissions.


Agreed. My Expedition, aging out at midnight tomorrow has a Jasper rebuilt from the previous sucker, uh owner (still under warranty ha!). The T Rex has one of those "joint venture " 6 speed transmissions that GM also uses. Had a valve body replacement at 197000 with a through on the bench de-gunk (and 3 fluid changes since) with no issues.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

peteyvavs said:


> Who in their right mind would want a FORD.


The ford designs, especially the interiors are pretty snappy.



oldfart said:


> All cars have issues, And need maintenance. There are very few components that you can expect to last forever; water pumps among them
> 
> When it comes to my personal car, if the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the car it's time for something new
> 
> ...


How is driving an XL in FL? Profitable?

I was planning on a minivan for XL, but over 100K miles, a minivan that gets 20mpg avg will spend $6500 more on gas compared to a 40mpg avg hybrid.

Compared to a SUV XL that gets avg 15mpg, the SUV will spend $10000+ more on gas. These figures are based on my gas consumption to earnings, in my market, where gas has been around 2.30-2.40.

I may go with a 2013 Ford Explorer / Mazda CX9 for XL, or get a Ford or Toyota hybrid for X. It seems that the earning potential from each seem to be about the same.

I think if the car is also used for unpaid commuting / family use, the hybrid is a clear winner. if its dedicated rideshare, the XL may come out on top. Depends how much you use it for other things.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

OldBay said:


> The ford designs, especially the interiors are pretty snappy.
> 
> 
> How is driving an XL in FL? Profitable?
> ...


Fuel is a big expense But so is the cost to buy a car. I owned the Explorer when I started to do Uber I considered selling it because I needed to cut my expenses and make some money (I did sell my boat). Instead I decided to put both the car and myself to work. The plan is to keep working until one of us (me or the car) can't work any more. I'm 73 and the car ages out of Uber in 5 more years. So that's my target but one or the other of us may crap out before then. The point is that I won't buy another car when I'm done with Uber so I don't need to consider depreciation or amortization

So I drive what I own. (no payments and liability insurance only) I think the savings more than offsets the increased cost of gas I also do cash airport rides and the Explorer works really well for that

If I was faced with the cost of another car I might do things differently but I really like the Explorer. If I do buy another car It will be another Explorer or an Expedition or Lincoln Navigator

To your question. Yes I make money with the Explorer. I might make more with another car. But I'm happy


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Unleaded said:


> Beginning in 2007 and continuing through the present, Ford has equipped millions of vehicles sold under the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury brand names with the Ford Cyclone Engine, also known as the Duratec engine. Unbeknownst to purchasers and lessees of these vehicles, the Ford Cyclone Engine contains a defect in design, manufacturing, materials and/or workmanship that causes the water pump to suddenly and prematurely fail-before the end of the useful life of the engine-and can lead to catastrophic engine failure for which will the engine repairs and/or engine replacement em will become your sole and expensive responsibility. Has anyone experienced this issue with the Ford (and other Ford-related)vehicles) they use for Uber?


If I had such a car I would watch for the recall.



OldBay said:


> The ford designs, especially the interiors are pretty snappy.
> 
> 
> How is driving an XL in FL? Profitable?
> ...


Toyota makes a Highlander Hybrid and a Rav4 hybrid. Honda makes an HR-V which I think is a hybrid.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

oldfart said:


> Fuel is a big expense But so is the cost to buy a car. I owned the Explorer when I started to do Uber I considered selling it because I needed to cut my expenses and make some money (I did sell my boat). Instead I decided to put both the car and myself to work. The plan is to keep working until one of us (me or the car) can't work any more. I'm 73 and the car ages out of Uber in 5 more years. So that's my target but one or the other of us may crap out before then. The point is that I won't buy another car when I'm done with Uber so I don't need to consider depreciation or amortization
> 
> So I drive what I own. (no payments and liability insurance only) I think the savings more than offsets the increased cost of gas I also do cash airport rides and the Explorer works really well for that
> 
> ...


Thanks for your feedback. I'm trying to decide if an XL (Explorer, CX9) would be more profitable than a Hybrid X. What year is your explorer, and what is the actual CITY mileage?

I am of the opinion that rideshare mileage ends up being very close to the city rating for a car. (For my car, it gets less in actual city than the sticker, but more on highway than sticker.) The "City" rating on the sticker doesn't take into account gridlock and all the idling that rideshare entails.

In my market, doing daytime rides, I think the hybrid X will make more. I was driving a gass guzzler (which was aged out) and that impacted my strategy. If things were slow, it was too expensive to drive around and test out new areas, so I would go home.

OTH, occasional XL rides, never having to turn down an X because "too much luggage", and extra tips may offset the extra fuel costs. But when you mix in unpaid personal miles (commuting to a job) the hybrid X is a clear winner.

Dont get me wrong, I'd rather be driving an SUV. Factoring in fatigue, an suv make turn more profit.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

My ford is a 2011 with 221000 miles I don’t know the epa fuel rating but I get about 20mpg. I’m guessing 50% to 60% of my miles are highway miles. The car is used almost exclusively for Uber/lyft and other commercial rides.


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## Unleaded (Feb 16, 2018)

LADryver said:


> If I had such a car I would watch for the recall.
> 
> 
> Toyota makes a Highlander Hybrid and a Rav4 hybrid. Honda makes an HR-V which I think is a hybrid.


LADryver:
The problem IS that Ford has long known about the Cyclone/Duratec engine water pump issue but have never issued a recall. Rather than accept responsibility, they are taking the water pump out of the engine on the 2920 models, and still NOT accepting responsibility. This involves Ford models 2007-Present!


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Unleaded said:


> LADryver:
> The problem IS that Ford has long known about the Cyclone/Duratec engine water pump issue but have never issued a recall. Rather than accept responsibility, they are taking the water pump out of the engine on the 2920 models, and still NOT accepting responsibility. This involves Ford models 2007-Present!


Check with a service advisor at a Ford Dealership Service and ask what their Service Bulletins say about the issue if you are having the problem. Service Bulletins, may or may not bring a solution at no cost to you, regardless of published warranty. It is potentially the same as a recall without all the hassle. If they know about it like you say, there are Service Bulletins (or whatever they are calling it).


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## Unleaded (Feb 16, 2018)

LADryver said:


> Check with a service advisor at a Ford Dealership Service and ask what their Service Bulletins say about the issue if you are having the problem. Service Bulletins, may or may not bring a solution at no cost to you, regardless of published warranty. It is potentially the same as a recall without all the hassle. If they know about it like you say, there are Service Bulletins (or whatever they are calling it).


According to the current water pump class-action lawsuit, Ford has failed to warn consumers since 2007 about the Duratec engines and how the water pumps fail before they should. Ford knows about the issue and has nothing about the problem. No bulletins and no recalls.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

LADryver said:


> Check with a service advisor at a Ford Dealership Service and ask what their Service Bulletins say about the issue if you are having the problem. Service Bulletins, may or may not bring a solution at no cost to you, regardless of published warranty. It is potentially the same as a recall without all the hassle. If they know about it like you say, there are Service Bulletins (or whatever they are calling it).


The problem is that if you are having the problem, it's too late.... you need more than a new water pump.

2011 was the first year explorers had this engine Mine is a 2011 with 220000 miles and I didnt have a problem. I just don't think many cars have had a failure yet.
Ford is probably most of these cars will be junked for some other reason before the water pump fails



Unleaded said:


> According to the current water pump class-action lawsuit, Ford has failed to warn consumers since 2007 about the Duratec engines and how the water pumps fail before they should. Ford knows about the issue and has nothing about the problem. No bulketins and no recalls.


the thing is that the water pumps don't fail before they should. The problem is that when they fail it's an $1800 repair if you are lucky. If you are unlucky a water pump failure will take the engine down with it


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## Unleaded (Feb 16, 2018)

oldfart said:


> The problem is that if you are having the problem, it's too late.... you need more than a new water pump.
> 
> 2011 was the first year explorers had this engine Mine is a 2011 with 220000 miles and I didnt have a problem. I just don't think many cars have had a failure yet.
> Ford is probably most of these cars will be junked for some other reason before the water pump fails


My 2015 Ford Explorer, at 93,000 miles, DID have the problem and Ford refused to assist or acknowledge their responsibility. After a $7,000 rebuild at my own expense, Ford has turned a deaf ear to the issue at the expense of the vehicle owner.


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## Robeaux (May 8, 2019)

kevin92009 said:


> i used a ford fiesta , dual clutch automatic transmission failed , cost $2000 parts and labor at dealer, private transmission shops did not want to touch it because this type of ford transmission had a few known issues . pathetic.


What year was it? My '14 Focus has that transmission and I had the "shudder" and "judder" problem. Learned to deal with it until Ford raised the warranty mileage to 100,000 on the transmission, got it fixed for nothing. You might be able to get reimbursed...worth looking into.


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## Dekero (Sep 24, 2019)

Lost me at FORD.....


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Last I looked Ford still had pretty crappy warranties. They are higher priced and generally have less warranty then other brands.


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## rideshare2870 (Nov 23, 2017)

*Scotty has entered the chat.

F#%# no. 

Toyota > Ford.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Unleaded said:


> Keeping your oil changed is a great tip, but with these Cyclone/Duratec engines, the water pump is encased inside the engine block abd is chain driven. When the water pump breaks prematurely, it leaks and mixes coolant with the engine oil and the oil in the oil pan. There is a tube that shoots oil to the oil pump and this deadly mixture of oil and coolant can cause the engine to seize with no advance warning resulting in complete and total engine failure. When it happens, it's all in you because Ford is in complete denial.


On this note, every turbo charged motor every made suffers from fuel diluting the oil....especially Honda... don't buy a Honda

The pump went in mmt dad's vw, didn't damage anything aside from the pump itself....took him and I around 7 hours to replace


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

oldfart said:


> You are right about water pumps. They all fail sooner or later and it's a $200 repair. What makes this Ford engine unique is that when the water pump fails, it can take the whole engine with it.


Many engines are designed like this


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## Unleaded (Feb 16, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> On this note, every turbo charged motor every made suffers from fuel diluting the oil....especially Honda... don't buy a Honda
> 
> The pump went in mmt dad's vw, didn't damage anything aside from the pump itself....took him and I around 7 hours to replace


The LONG and SHORT of this issue

Ford's 3.5L V6 engines have one serious common problem related to the water pump failure. We mentioned before, that the water pump on the 3.5 is internal/driven by the timing chain. This design has two major issues. First, a bad water pump will leak for some time, and you may not notice this until the coolant level drops significantly, which will lead to overheating. Secondly, the leaked coolant ends up in the engine oil and creates an emulsion, causing lack of lubricant for all internal components, which is extremely bad for any engine. You have to remove the pulleys, front cover, and timing chains to get the water pump out. So, it is very labor intensive to replace and, as a result, expensive job. In worst cases the entire engine must either be replaced or rebuilt by the owner as Ford has taken a deaf ear and has not recalled the engines or and not accepted the responsibility. The victimized owner must pay out of pocket! Do you have an extra $7,000 to $10,000 to get your Ford back on the road? Are you ready to take the monetary loss?


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Unleaded said:


> The LONG and SHORT of this issue
> 
> Ford's 3.5L V6 engines have one serious common problem related to the water pump failure. We mentioned before, that the water pump on the 3.5 is internal/driven by the timing chain. This design has two major issues. First, a bad water pump will leak for some time, and you may not notice this until the coolant level drops significantly, which will lead to overheating. Secondly, the leaked coolant ends up in the engine oil and creates an emulsion, causing lack of lubricant for all internal components, which is extremely bad for any engine. You have to remove the pulleys, front cover, and timing chains to get the water pump out. So, it is very labor intensive to replace and, as a result, expensive job. In worst cases the entire engine must either be replaced or rebuilt by the owner as Ford has taken a deaf ear and has not recalled the engines or and not accepted the responsibility. The victimized owner must pay out of pocket! Do you have an extra $7,000 to $10,000 to get your Ford back on the road? Are you ready to take the monetary loss?


It's a crap design....I completely agree... Ford is not the only guilty party...

Nissan
Volkswagen 
Ford
And jaguar 
Are the ones I've seen


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

New recall for Ford Flex, Taurus SHO and Lincoln MKT from 2013 thru 2018, 240,000 vehicles affected.

Rear toe links can fracture. Dealers will replace with stronger ones.


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## Unleaded (Feb 16, 2018)

Bubsie said:


> New recall for Ford Flex, Taurus SHO and Lincoln MKT from 2013 thru 2018, 240,000 vehicles affected.
> 
> Rear toe links can fracture. Dealers will replace with stronger ones.


It's great that the toe links fault came under recall. On my 2015 Explorer, the toe links were replaced, but the issue with the Cyclone/Duratec V6 engines with encased water pumps breaking prematurely, causing coolant to leak into the engine and oil pan, causing complete engine failure in 2007 to 2019 models has not yet been recalled. Owners are on their own and forced to pay countless thousands of dollars for Engine replacements, rebuilds and costly repairs, has not been subject to recall. What can we do to effect a recall for this dilemma?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Unleaded said:


> It's great that the toe links fault came under recall. On my 2015 Explorer, the toe links were replaced, but the issue with the Cyclone/Duratec V6 engines with encased water pumps breaking prematurely, causing coolant to leak into the engine and oil pan, causing complete engine failure in 2007 to 2019 models has not yet been recalled. Owners are on their own and forced to pay countless thousands of dollars for Engine replacements, rebuilds and costly repairs, has not been subject to recall. What can we do to effect a recall for this dilemma?


my 2011 was recalled and the toe links replaced. The water pump I did before if failed

I would take issue with two things in your post 1) my water pump didn't fail prematurely. In fact it didn't fail at all. But at over 200000 miles I thought it wise to replace it before it failed. and 2) if changed out as part of a preventative Mainteance program it won't cost "countless thousands" of dollars. I can count them exactly. I spent 2.2 thousands but in addition to the water pump, I have a new timing chain, guides, oil pump and a new front crankshaft seal

I have already replaced the two front struts, done a transmission service, coolant service, and replaced the serpentine belt as well as regular oil changes and tires and batteries. the car now has 230000 miles on it and I've spent $7000 in total on maintenance and repairs. Or about 3.5 cents a mile. I expect to finish the year at 300000 miles and with
any luck no more than oil changes and tires

so my point is 3.5 cants a mile is, I don't think, excessive and I don't think 200000 miles on a water pump without any issue can be called "premature failure) Rather, I think if an owner knows about an issue like this and doesn't take preemptive action to avoid the inevitable failure; shame on home. What I think ford should do if notify all owners of the issue and suggest preventive action at 100000 milles


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

oldfart said:


> my 2011 was recalled and the toe links replaced. The water pump I did before if failed
> 
> I would take issue with two things in your post 1) my water pump didn't fail prematurely. In fact it didn't fail at all. But at over 200000 miles I thought it wise to replace it before it failed. and 2) if changed out as part of a preventative Mainteance program it won't cost "countless thousands" of dollars. I can count them exactly. I spent 2.2 thousands but in addition to the water pump, I have a new timing chain, guides, oil pump and a new front crankshaft seal
> 
> ...


At 200,000 miles
You should have changed the headgaskets & valve guide seals too !


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> At 200,000 miles
> You should have changed the headgaskets & valve guide seals too !


those thingsought togive some warning before complete failure, although I suppose if they fail I might get oil in the water... not good but probably not as bad as water in the oil

no question you are right. If I am to practice what I preach (preventive maintenance) I ought to do those things soonerrather than later

I'll think about it at 300000 miles


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## brentb31 (May 23, 2018)

Robeaux said:


> What year was it? My '14 Focus has that transmission and I had the "shudder" and "judder" problem. Learned to deal with it until Ford raised the warranty mileage to 100,000 on the transmission, got it fixed for nothing. You might be able to get reimbursed...worth looking into.


Just had transmission fail about 6 months ago on 2014 Focus. Clutch engaged caused terminal failure. Had transmission replaced. Got a recall letter from Ford for the shudder and said I could get money back potentially. Went in to get all recalls done and had Ford do clutch test. Car failed clutch test, parts are ordered for it 3 weeks out. Will get new clutch pack installed under recall in coming weeks.

While recalls were being handled, I met with warranty administrator. Got copy of original invoice from transmission repair shop and submitted to Ford. I was told it would take 4 weeks to hear an answer. I was shocked when I got a check for the full amount I paid ($4150) to have transmission work done. Check took about a week to arrive. I wasn't expecting anything to be paid out, honestly, since car had 112K miles on it when transmission failed.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

brentb31 said:


> Just had transmission fail about 6 months ago on 2014 Focus. Clutch engaged caused terminal failure. Had transmission replaced. Got a recall letter from Ford for the shudder and said I could get money back potentially. Went in to get all recalls done and had Ford do clutch test. Car failed clutch test, parts are ordered for it 3 weeks out. Will get new clutch pack installed under recall in coming weeks.
> 
> While recalls were being handled, I met with warranty administrator. Got copy of original invoice from transmission repair shop and submitted to Ford. I was told it would take 4 weeks to hear an answer. I was shocked when I got a check for the full amount I paid ($4150) to have transmission work done. Check took about a week to arrive. I wasn't expecting anything to be paid out, honestly, since car had 112K miles on it when transmission failed.


We're talking DCTs not manual transmissions, right?

I understand why you didn't expect to be paid out, but the nature of the failure doesn't seem to be use-based but rather some kind of design flaw. Ford seems to have deeply messed up by designing such a failure-prone transmission while including it as a standard feature in so many cars. You deserved being paid back.

Having driven a Ford Focus with a DCT extensively I can't understand why this transmission was so commonly marketed, since it isn't quite good or smooth enough to justify being so mechanically complex and failure-prone. It's like having a performance car part on a daily driver.


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## brentb31 (May 23, 2018)

waldowainthrop said:


> We're talking DCTs not manual transmissions, right?
> 
> I understand why you didn't expect to be paid out, but the nature of the failure doesn't seem to be use-based but rather some kind of design flaw. Ford seems to have deeply messed up by designing such a failure-prone transmission while including it as a standard feature in so many cars. You deserved being paid back.
> 
> Having driven a Ford Focus with a DCT extensively I can't understand why this transmission was so commonly marketed, since it isn't quite good or smooth enough to justify being so mechanically complex and failure-prone. It's like having a performance car part on a daily driver.


Correct, the DCT transmission. When car was in shop having trans swapped, I had them do breaks and some suspension work as well. Ford paid it all out, not just the trans work. My guess it the total was under the threshold Ford had allocated for trans repair. I had a Ford engineer in my car during an auto show in town. He told me to be careful that the trans would just lock up with no warning, it was a known flaw that his bosses pushed through. He also made mention Ford went with this design because they were able to get .1 more MPG on the emissions control.

I typically do all repairs myself or pay one of the techs I work with to come help, but had to get car back up and running quicker than we could have done the work. I was happy to get cash back and brakes and suspension paid for as well. Had I known it was that easy, I might have had some more stuff done, haha.


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