# Just curiosity: why do some posters (rabidly) defend non-tippers?



## HonkyTonk

Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)

I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


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## SHalester

who are the defenders? Tips are optional. We are NOT wait staff, you realize that, yeah? Unlike some I don't count on tips and treat them like xmas morning each time I receive one. The delayed gratification tips are the BEST. Just got one the other day from a 12/23 ride.

And before your head explodes as a pax I always tip.....in the app.... As I driver I don't expect them, don't count on them, don't budget for them. When I get 'em......NICE! When I don't I'm not crying, moaning, whining or become depressed.

If I wanted tips all the time, I'd get a job as a restaurant. OH, in a previous life I did that, but wasn't front room staff. No, I was the dishwasher. hahahahaha

What I really really want is more than 60% of my pax to just RATE the dam ride. puhleeeeze

and may this be my 51 posts and not happen.....


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

I don’t defend not tipping but a lot of drivers feel they are entitled a tip. Me personally I always tip sometimes poorly if my server isn’t good.


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## mch

Get in their asses Honky!


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## Ubertool

I find your profile name offensive😁


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## Virginia is for lovers

Taxi drivers get tips almost always. So why not Uber/Lyft drivers. Aren't we doing the same job?


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## Dekero

Because the KID is ummm ........ And ........ And he's also a .........

Fill in the blanks



SHalester said:


> who are the defenders? Tips are optional. We are NOT wait staff, you realize that, yeah? Unlike some I don't count on tips and treat them like xmas morning each time I receive one. The delayed gratification tips are the BEST. Just got one the other day from a 12/23 ride.
> 
> And before your head explodes as a pax I always tip.....in the app.... As I driver I don't expect them, don't count on them, don't budget for them. When I get 'em......NICE! When I don't I'm not crying, moaning, whining or become depressed.
> 
> If I wanted tips all the time, I'd get a job as a restaurant. OH, in a previous life I did that, but wasn't front room staff. No, I was the dishwasher. hahahahaha
> 
> What I really really want is more than 60% of my pax to just RATE the dam ride. puhleeeeze
> 
> and may this be my 51 posts and not happen.....


Yeah and your mom dresses you funny too....


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## MasterAbsher

In my case, I dont care. I do this job to get out of the house. I'm truly independently wealthy at this point in my life, therefore, I dont take the lack of a tip personal. However, if I counted on this job as a needed source of income, I'd probably be upset.

But let's look at the root of the problem. At one point in time, Uber discouraged tipping. I believe some riders still think that is SOP.


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## WNYuber

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


*They defend non-tippers because THEY ARE NON TIPPERS*. 95% of the people on this board are busted & poor.....they are cheapskates defending cheapskates.
If you say all pax should tip in a post, then they will tell u that your "entitled" and your lucky u have a great gig with flexibility. Others will say they don't expect tips but are grateful when they get them.
*I personally expect a tip on every ride if I serviced them safely.*


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## Mkang14

People defend keeping drivers sane. Instead of spending so much time and energy going crazy over something they cant control.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

MasterAbsher said:


> In my case, I dont care. I do this job to get out of the house. I'm truly independently wealthy at this point in my life, therefore, I dont take the lack of a tip personal. However, if I counted on this job as a needed source of income, I'd probably be upset.
> 
> But let's look at the root of the problem. At one point in time, Uber discouraged tipping. I believe some riders still think that is SOP.


Absher are you an undercover millionaire? If so then you should make a contribution to our local UP devil &#128520; just 1 or 2 million chump change to a man of your stature.


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## MasterAbsher

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Absher are you an undercover millionaire? If so then you should make a contribution to our local UP devil &#128520; just 1 or 2 million chump change to a man of your stature.
> 
> View attachment 407019


Never said I was undercover  I believe when you stop working you die.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

MasterAbsher said:


> Never said I was undercover  I believe when you stop working you die.


That's a fact sir, now about that 3-4 million donation...


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## Mkang14

WNYuber said:


> *They defend non-tippers because THEY ARE NON TIPPERS*. 95% of the people on this board are busted & poor.....they are cheapskates defending cheapskates.


&#129318;‍♀NoWay!

I'm not shedding even a single tear for a tip. But I always tip. A lot of the others here that have similar feelings give me the same vibe.


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## WNYuber

Mkang14 said:


> &#129318;‍♀NoWay!
> 
> I'm not shedding even a single tear for a tip. But I always tip. A lot of the others here that have similar feelings give me the same vibe.


If I always tip when I take an Uber, why should I not be expected to get a tip every time I give a safe ride?
Exceptions are when I drive college students or young folks to their minimum wage jobs. They get a pass.
All others.....tipping should be mandatory....even if it's just a buck. 
Kang your not tipping anybody, who u kidding. You don't shed a tear for a tip because *YOU ARE ONE OF THEM.*
Baby Yoda has spoken!


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## Virginia is for lovers

Mkang14 said:


> &#129318;‍♀NoWay!
> 
> I'm not shedding even a single tear for a tip. But I always tip. A lot of the others here that have similar feelings give me the same vibe.


I always tip regardless of quality of service. Tipping is a good deed.


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## WNYuber

Virginia is for lovers said:


> I always tip regardless of quality of service. Tipping is a good deed.


You tell em VIFL, good karma for u!!!
My dream is to give u & your badger the ride of a lifetime in my Ubermobile ❤


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## mrpjfresh

The working poor who take Uber and Lyft view it as expensive; all those daily commute rides add up. Not defending really, but it is what it is. My market if small enough I typically unmatch with these or waiters who do not type when I get them again. There is way bigger game to hunt who actually does tip to be messing around with these.


mch said:


> Get in their asses Honky!


I see a film in the making! Call it 'Honkytonk in the Bodacious Badonkadonk'?


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## Mkang14

WNYuber said:


> If I always tip when I take an Uber, why should I not be expected to get a tip every time I give a safe ride?
> Exceptions are when I drive college students or young folks to their minimum wage jobs. They get a pass.
> All others.....tipping should be mandatory....even if it's just a buck.
> Kang your not tipping anybody, who u kidding. You don't shed a tear for a tip because *YOU ARE ONE OF THEM.*
> Baby Yoda has spoken!


I tip. Dont call me a liar.

I'm just not starving for tips. I have bigger issues then whining over a dollar. Here you go &#127868;. Need me to warm it up?


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## Virginia is for lovers

WNYuber said:


> You tell em VIFL, good karma for u!!!
> My dream is to give u & your badger the ride of a lifetime in my Ubermobile ❤


Honey badger won't like me. I am a widower with a 3 year old boy &#128584;


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## WNYuber

Mkang14 said:


> I tip. Dont call me a liar.
> 
> I'm just not starving for tips. I have bigger issues then whining over a dollar. Here you go &#127868;. Need me to warm it up?


Tips are what makes for good days and bad days with this gig, *TIPS MAKE THE DIFFERENCE*. A shit day can turn into a great day when a few riders toss ya a fin CASH. 
Cash tips go right to the bottom line and make up for all the bullshit that Uber and the Pax make us put up with. 
#nontippersdefenednontippers



Virginia is for lovers said:


> Honey badger won't like me. I am a widower with a 3 year old boy &#128584;


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## Mkang14

WNYuber said:


> Tips are what makes for good days and bad days with this gig, *TIPS MAKE THE DIFFERENCE*. A shit day can turn into a great day when a few riders toss ya a fin CASH.
> Cash tips go right to the bottom line and make up for all the bullshit that Uber and the Pax make us put up with.
> #nontippersdefenednontippers


That's great and all.

But are you 100% sure that pax know this? That your entire life depends on their $1? Because I still dont see the point of constantly cusing them out behind their back, if they dont know about this secret (apparently mandatory) rule.

A look into your future if you continue letting this need for tips get the best of you..
https://uberpeople.net/threads/lyft-driver-keeps-passenger-in-car-video.374925/page-6#post-5808834


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

WNYuber said:


> Tips are what makes for good days and bad days with this gig, *TIPS MAKE THE DIFFERENCE*. A shit day can turn into a great day when a few riders toss ya a fin CASH.
> Cash tips go right to the bottom line and make up for all the bullshit that Uber and the Pax make us put up with.
> #nontippersdefenednontippers
> 
> 
> View attachment 407023





Mkang14 said:


> That's great and all.
> 
> But are you 100% sure that pax know this? That your entire life depends on their $1? Because I still dont see the point of constantly cusing them out behind their back, if they dont know about this secret (apparently mandatory) rule.


You two cut it out and make up


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## Virginia is for lovers

WNYuber said:


> Tips are what makes for good days and bad days with this gig, *TIPS MAKE THE DIFFERENCE*. A shit day can turn into a great day when a few riders toss ya a fin CASH.
> Cash tips go right to the bottom line and make up for all the bullshit that Uber and the Pax make us put up with.
> #nontippersdefenednontippers
> 
> 
> View attachment 407023


My boy exactly two hours ago. Is the Italian badger watching? &#128556;&#128584;


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## Mkang14




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## WNYuber

Mkang14 said:


> That's great and all.
> 
> But are you 100% sure that pax know this? That your entire life depends on their $1? Because I still dont see the point of constantly cusing them out behind their back, if they dont know about this secret (apparently mandatory) rule.


I'm at a happy point of my life where I no longer need money, I do this gig out of boredom and for a few extra bucks. 
For some reason I view a tip as a pat on the head, like a puppy....good boy....u didn't shit on the rug....nice job....here's a cookie(a $1 tip).
Like I said, I expect THAT COOKIE from EVERY Pax I took safely from point A to point B. You don't get it, cuz your one of them.


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## Mkang14

WNYuber said:


> I'm at a happy point of my life where I no longer need money, I do this gig out of boredom and for a few extra bucks.
> For some reason I view a tip as a pat on the head, like a puppy....good boy....u didn't shit on the rug....nice job....here's a cookie(a $1 tip).
> Like I said, I expect THAT COOKIE from EVERY Pax I took safely from point A to point B. You don't get it, cuz your one of them.


I think the greedy for tips people are the ones that hold onto every penny.

Money doesnt impact me in the same way it impacts you. If I dont get a dollar I will still like that person because it's in my nature. Now you have such a vendetta that I have no doubt you take your "injustice" out on the next rider.


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## Clint Torres

I tip 100% unless it’s is built in like a service charge. Just like a restaurant with a large party.


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## WNYuber

Mkang14 said:


> I think the greedy for tips people are the ones that hold onto every penny.
> 
> Money doesnt impact me in the same way it impacts you. If I dont get a dollar I will still like that person because it's in my nature. Now you have such a vendetta that I have no doubt you take your "injustice" out on the next rider.
> 
> View attachment 407029


I'm not gonna let u get the last word in on me, I'll stay up all God damn night and argue with u Kang. You can't win, your not a tipper. You don't have good karma. Your defending the root of the problem with this gig, the cheapo Pax. Like I said, tips solve EVERYTHING, they move right to the bottom line. Show me a successful driver and I'll show u a person with a 75% tip rate with generous Pax. 
Your just a manateee floating in the water accepting mediocrity....."oh well another non-tipper".... we'll get'em next time.


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## Mkang14

WNYuber said:


> I'm not gonna let u get the last word in on me, I'll stay up all God damn night and argue with u Kang. You can't win, your not a tipper. You don't have good karma. Your defending the root of the problem with this gig, the cheapo Pax. Like I said, tips solve EVERYTHING, they move right to the bottom line. Show me a successful driver and I'll show u a person with a 75% tip rate with generous Pax.
> Your just a manateee floating in the water accepting mediocrity....."oh well another non-tipper".... we'll get'em next time.


Wow in a few post you proved everything that others were saying, while I was defending you.


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## WNYuber

Mkang14 said:


> Wow in a few post you proved everything that others were saying, while I was defending you.
> 
> View attachment 407034


Wait what, did I win or u won? &#129300; Don't be using reverse psychology on me.


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## Virginia is for lovers

I am driving right now, I've made $35 tips out of $160 total. Thats not too bad.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer

Virginia is for lovers said:


> I am driving right now, I've made $35 tips out of $160 total. Thats not too bad.


That's a slam dunk in my book.


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## Virginia is for lovers

Dont disturb me people &#128523;&#128523;&#128523;


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## WNYuber

ok, debate is over......time to hit the sack.....somebody once told me...."a wise man forgets his anger before he lies down to sleep"
Goodnight Kang ❤


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## Oscar Levant

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


Well, in my case, given that Uber has killed the tipping culture from the outset, *****ing about tips is a losing battle. I just don't care if they tip or not.

If you want a job with lots of tips, try bartending.


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## waldowainthrop

I love tips. Free money, pay what you want. I give tips generously.

However, I am a tipping culture abolitionist. I want employers to pay people properly so that tips aren’t viewed as essential for drivers or any other occupation. Tipping became more of an issue on Uber once pay started decreasing. When people are skeptical about tips I largely agree with them, even though the economic status quo demands that the culture continues.


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## reg barclay

Mkang14 said:


> Because I still dont see the point of constantly cusing them out behind their back, if they dont know about this secret (apparently mandatory) rule.


SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!

JK :biggrin: .



waldowainthrop said:


> However, I am a tipping culture abolitionist. I want employers to pay people properly so that tips aren't viewed as essential for drivers or any other occupation.


I agree with this sentiment for the most part. But I think abolitionist is a little too far. I'd like to see tipping retained as an option, for occasions where someone goes out of their way and the like.

Like you, that's not to say I won't tip, as long as the US system remains how it is. But I'd rather it be changed to one where workers get paid an amount that isn't reliant on tips.


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## waldowainthrop

reg barclay said:


> I agree with this sentiment for the most part. But I think abolitionist is a little too far. I'd like to see tipping retained as an option, for occasions where someone goes out of their way and the like.


I like this idea but I'd also prefer to see a transition to a fairer variable compensation that is more tied to quality and type of services. Customer appreciation is fine, but tips as we conceive of them today are distributed inequitably. That's the thing I want to go away rather than the variable compensation element of tipping.

I think a lot of drivers experience this: "but I walked this infirm person to the door" or "but I helped out with luggage". In a fair system that would rarely go uncompensated since it is work.

There are other models for compensation and other ways for customers to pay (à la carte services for example) that don't remove the incentives for good service nor the rewards for being good at a job. Arguably the tipping system on Uber and Lyft is completely broken since most people never tip and more than a few people over-tip for baseline service.

It doesn't to have to be à la carte. Some things should be priced all inclusively (like drinks at a bar or food delivery) since truly "above and beyond" work is less of a consideration and harder for many workers to do in some situations.

I'd also like to add that I am for the abolition of tipping culture, not the abolition of tips or variable/performance pay as a concept.


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## Galveston

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


Uber attracts self hating drivers


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## Cold Fusion

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


The *Total Fare *charge tend to be high.
The fact drivers get a percent is Not my concern.
Ain't in many folk's budget to supplement the working poor


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## reg barclay

waldowainthrop said:


> I like this idea but I'd also prefer to see a transition to a fairer variable compensation that is more tied to quality and type of services. Customer appreciation is fine, but tips as we conceive of them today are distributed inequitably. That's the thing I want to go away rather than the variable compensation element of tipping.
> 
> I think a lot of drivers experience this: "but I walked this infirm person to the door" or "but I helped out with luggage". In a fair system that would rarely go uncompensated since it is work.
> 
> There are other models for compensation and other ways for customers to pay (à la carte services for example) that don't remove the incentives for good service nor the rewards for being good at a job. Arguably the tipping system on Uber and Lyft is completely broken since most people never tip and more than a few people over-tip for baseline service.
> 
> It doesn't to have to be à la carte. Some things should be priced all inclusively (like drinks at a bar or food delivery) since truly "above and beyond" work is less of a consideration and harder for many workers to do in some situations.
> 
> I'd also like to add that I am for the abolition of tipping culture, not the abolition of tips or variable/performance pay as a concept.


Interesting concept, that I haven't thought much about.

As a thought experiment. What if rideshare had no fixed rates, and customers paid whatever they felt the service was worth. But drivers had the ability to rate the fairness of the payment. Would that work or not (assuming there was no way for pax to keep opening new accounts)?

I'm trying to understand, in a variable compensation system, what would stop customers from 'stiffing' workers. In a small town environment, where everyone knows each other, then I guess that would happen less. But in the modern world, I'm not sure how it would work.

One psychological factor we don't always consider, is that in restaurants, bars, etc, the bill is usually settled in front of the worker. Adding a social barrier for most people against 'stiffing' the server. But if people settled their restaurant bill hours later, when they'd long since left the place, I think there's a chance tipping would decrease.


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## waldowainthrop

reg barclay said:


> I'm trying to understand, in a variable compensation system, what would stop customers from 'stiffing' workers.


Minimum pay (that is worth working for) and a robust passenger feedback system that actually prevents passengers from getting high quality rides in the future. I also think social pressure can go a long way.

Yeah I know it's utopian and Uber has already set the bar too low, but that's how I would approach it if I were running a fictitious driver-run co-op.

I get coffee at a literally "pay what you want" cash-only shop sometimes. I pay well and I imagine others do too. I don't know if that exact model is sustainable but I do know it has been around for years and tips are non-existent there. It's one of the most socialist places I've ever shopped and yet it's still run like a capitalist business. &#129335;&#127996;‍♂


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## mch

A pax's tipping history should be available to the driver before accepting the ping. 

Not in the form of some subjective rating given by the driver. It should be in the form of some score, ratio, or average percentage. The numbers are there. We should have access to them. Pax who tip better and more often should get better service and shorter wait times. 

People who don't tip or tip at a low percentage....well, money talks and bullshit walks, or rides their bike, or takes the bus, or waits until the smelly crackhead 4.50 rated driver who doesn't care about tips shows up. 

Tip your Uber driver.


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## MrsCaLi

I mean... it’s optional. That’s why they choose if they should add it.
Do thank you worthy work and the tips should flow. I see all these posts about how wonderful all you drivers are but I’ve only had one drive with Uber that was memorable and I left a $35 tip. State to state so I tipped well beyond I needed as a thank you.


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## SHalester

mch said:


> A pax's tipping history should be available to the driver before accepting the ping.


....and decide in less than 14 seconds? right. Don't car about tips or pax rating. My bad.


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## mch

SHalester said:


> ....and decide in less than 14 seconds? right. Don't car about tips or pax rating. My bad.


That's why I said a "score". An easily identifiable number that gives you an accurate description of what kind of tipper the person requesting the ride is. That way you can make an informed decision on wether you want to accept the ride.

Plus if you don't care about tips you should love this idea. They'll be plenty of extra rides with low tip scores you could take&#128514;.


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## Cableguynoe

@MiamiKid 
@steveK2016


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## Mtbsrfun

waldowainthrop said:


> Minimum pay (that is worth working for) and a robust passenger feedback system that actually prevents passengers from getting high quality rides in the future. I also think social pressure can go a long way.
> 
> Yeah I know it's utopian and Uber has already set the bar too low, but that's how I would approach it if I were running a fictitious driver-run co-op.
> 
> I get coffee at a literally "pay what you want" cash-only shop sometimes. I pay well and I imagine others do too. I don't know if that exact model is sustainable but I do know it has been around for years and tips are non-existent there. It's one of the most socialist places I've ever shopped and yet it's still run like a capitalist business. &#129335;&#127996;‍♂


I usually see that sort of thing at farmers markets and farm stands, don't think I've ever seen it at a coffee shop. Is the coffee shop you talk about one of those little roadside places? Not a store but more akin to a drive up shack.


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## MiamiKid

mch said:


> Get in their asses Honky!


I staunchly defend non tippers. Because I can.

Thanks for your post. You answered the question! 
&#128526;


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## mch

MiamiKid said:


> I staunchly defend non tippers. Because I can.
> 
> Thanks for your post. You answered the question!
> &#128526;


My two cents

&#128526;


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## SHalester

mch said:


> They'll be plenty of extra rides with low tip scores you could take


no problem. I care about tips, like I care about pax ratings. I have seen no correlation between low ratings and how they act in MY car; none at all. Which is why I ignore ratings from OTHER drivers I don't even know.
And tips? They come, nice. They don't, no tears lost. No depression. No whining, moaning. if I wanted guaranteed tips I'd work front of house restaurant and be wait staff.


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## MiamiKid

mch said:


> My two cents
> 
> &#128526;


Thanks. Meant to include that.


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## UbaBrah

MiamiKid said:


> Thanks. Meant to include that.


You also forgot "Uber rocks" but I'll let it slide.

I totally support tipping being optional and no big deal, at least in theory, but the way Uber has tightened the screws on us, things aren't working out. Tipping has become mandatory to really make this work well, even though I try to drive exclusively surge as often as I can. I mean, in my neck of the woods, the minimum I can be paid on any trip is $2.28. That's scary low.


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## mch

UbaBrah said:


> You also forgot "Uber rocks" but I'll let it slide.
> 
> I totally support tipping being optional and no big deal, at least in theory, but the way Uber has tightened the screws on us, things aren't working out. Tipping has become mandatory to really make this work well, even though I try to drive exclusively surge as often as I can. I mean, in my neck of the woods, the minimum I can be paid on any trip is $2.28. That's scary low.


Yep. The reality of the situation is that rideshare needs to be looked at the same way bartending, serving, and stripping do. Its not there yet. Hopefully it gets there.

I feel weird even talking about this stuff since I haven't even been driving a lot the past two months.



MiamiKid said:


> Thanks. Meant to include that.


Who's your favorite Beatle? Im a George guy myself.


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## waldowainthrop

Mtbsrfun said:


> I usually see that sort of thing at farmers markets and farm stands, don't think I've ever seen it at a coffee shop. Is the coffee shop you talk about one of those little roadside places? Not a store but more akin to a drive up shack.


Small somewhat touristy town center: Manitou Springs, CO.


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## MiamiKid

UbaBrah said:


> You also forgot "Uber rocks" but I'll let it slide.
> 
> I totally support tipping being optional and no big deal, at least in theory, but the way Uber has tightened the screws on us, things aren't working out. Tipping has become mandatory to really make this work well, even though I try to drive exclusively surge as often as I can. I mean, in my neck of the woods, the minimum I can be paid on any trip is $2.28. That's scary low.


Am on the last leg with Uber. Not expecting tips helps drastically from a motivational standpoint. Expectations are exceeded constantly.

However, when it no longer works, that's it. Already eliminated a lot. Bar hours, concerts, events, bad neighborhoods and complexes all gone. Oh and no more stops either.

This is now part time, supplemental income only.

And $2.28 would not work for me either. Unless that's totally knocked out, from accept to drop off, in 3 - 4 minutes or less.

So Uber will have to come up something to keep me in. Seems like they try; then, walk it back.


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## Amos69

Galveston said:


> Uber attracts self hating drivers


That is a small part of it. I think RS attracts a large contingent of people who just do not try. Whether because they don't know they are supposed to try, or they tried trying and failed and thus gave up, or just simply never wanted to try.

I think people who hate themselves fit nicely into two of those categories.

RS is a lot like the restaurant business in this regard.


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## YourFoodIsGettingCold

mch said:


> Not in the form of some subjective rating given by the driver. It should be in the form of some score, ratio, or average percentage. The numbers are there. We should have access to them. Pax who tip better and more often should get better service and shorter wait times.


I agree, although I think it should be simpler. Like a pax who tips on 65% of their rides get a tipper emblem or icon on their ping and those who tip less don't.


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## W00dbutcher

Uber killed the tip on this one. They said it was not necessary. So if you want to blame somebody blame Uber. Secondly, the Millennials and snowflakes today don't have a clue about Society. They're too busy burying their nose on their phone and look at me crap on the internet. Facebook Instagram all that is the scourge of society which has done nothing but ******ed the social construct of the world.

You can get on your soapbox and preach all you want with no repercussions on the internet. So one person says the okay symbol is a racist everybody runs with it thinking that it's the truth.

Most people don't tip because they were taught not to. You can't change that until you change the person's way of thinking on life.

And I'm sorry if I use the word ******ed in a offending Manor. It's not supposed to be like that but I have no other word to explain what I'm trying to say

Admins... R. E. TR. A. R. D is not a bad word when used properly.

re·tard

_verb_
/riˈtärd/

delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment.
"our progress was ******ed by unforeseen difficulties"


----------



## UberBeemer

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


My question is, why is everything you post so negative, and, placed in the wrong forum? Your complaints belong on the COMPLAINTS board, not advice.


----------



## Clint Torres

if You can't get good consistent tips in this gig you either have personality issues, odor issues or lack of service and amenities. Just showing up may get you an A in school these days but not a tip

Getting a tip is like having @Mkang14 or @tohunt4me like your post. Sweethearts, but let's face it, You could cap locks the alphabet and get a like from them


----------



## MiamiKid

mch said:


> A pax's tipping history should be available to the driver before accepting the ping.
> 
> Not in the form of some subjective rating given by the driver. It should be in the form of some score, ratio, or average percentage. The numbers are there. We should have access to them. Pax who tip better and more often should get better service and shorter wait times.
> 
> People who don't tip or tip at a low percentage....well, money talks and bullshit walks, or rides their bike, or takes the bus, or waits until the smelly crackhead 4.50 rated driver who doesn't care about tips shows up.
> 
> Tip your Uber driver.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> YourFoodIsGettingCold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, although I think it should be simpler. Like a pax who tips on 65% of their rides get a tipper emblem or icon on their ping and those who tip less don't.
> 
> 
> 
> Will never ha
Click to expand...




HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


STRONGLY defend the non tippers. And they are 100% extremely, entitled to do as they please, without any consequence whatsoever.

There's your justification. Got it? Great.

End of conversation.

My two cents.
&#128526;


----------



## sellkatsell44

UbaBrah said:


> You also forgot "Uber rocks" but I'll let it slide.
> 
> I totally support tipping being optional and no big deal, at least in theory, but the way Uber has tightened the screws on us, things aren't working out. Tipping has become mandatory to really make this work well, even though I try to drive exclusively surge as often as I can. I mean, in my neck of the woods, the minimum I can be paid on any trip is $2.28. That's scary low.


And this is why I tip.


----------



## Mkang14

Clint Torres said:


> Getting a tip is like having @Mkang14 or @tohunt4me like your post. Sweethearts, but let's face it, You could cap locks the alphabet and get a like from them


I'm mkang and I have a "like" problem &#128587;‍♀

I've been trying to cut it down &#128522;. I've been doing good &#128129;‍♀.


----------



## YourFoodIsGettingCold

MiamiKid said:


> My two cents.
> &#128526;


If I told you 4 years ago that Uber would consider allowing drivers to choose the amount they charge for their service, you probably would've said "Will never happen".

Alas, here we are. Just my free perspective.


----------



## MiamiKid

YourFoodIsGettingCold said:


> If I told you 4 years ago that Uber would consider allowing drivers to choose the amount they charge for their service, you probably would've said "Will never happen".
> 
> Alas, here we are. Just my free perspective.


Guess what? Will still say it.


----------



## reg barclay

mch said:


> The reality of the situation is that rideshare needs to be looked at the same way bartending, serving, and stripping do.


Not quite sure about the last one, but I'll grant the other two &#128580;.


----------



## WNYuber

reg barclay said:


> Not quite sure about the last one, but I'll grant the other two &#128580;.


I need u to chime in on the other thread, I need supporters over there. Read the list and respond positively.
You have always been the voice of reason. Don't listen to that quartet of negativeness. 
#ready4asupporter


----------



## dmoney155

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


Why don't YOU tip everyone in this forum for giving you their fine opinions?


----------



## Ssgcraig

There is nothing to defend, tipping is not mandatory. It seems as though some think it is.


----------



## dmoney155

Ssgcraig said:


> There is nothing to defend, tipping is not mandatory. It seems as though some think it is.


Exxxxxactly... do I like getting free money... sure, who doesn't.... will I cry and whine when no one tips me?... nope, don't care that much.


----------



## MiamiKid

WNYuber said:


> *They defend non-tippers because THEY ARE NON TIPPERS*. 95% of the people on this board are busted & poor.....they are cheapskates defending cheapskates.
> If you say all pax should tip in a post, then they will tell u that your "entitled" and your lucky u have a great gig with flexibility. Others will say they don't expect tips but are grateful when they get them.
> *I personally expect a tip on every ride if I serviced them safely.*


Here's what you're missing:

TIPS ARE INCLUDED!!!
&#128077;


----------



## SHalester

MiamiKid said:


> TIPS ARE INCLUDED!!!


Tips are optional (to provide balance) :whistling:


----------



## MiamiKid

SHalester said:


> Tips are optional (to provide balance) :whistling:


Okay will go with that as well. No problem.
&#128077;


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler

Moderators, Can you please get us an easy to click thumbs down button? I have needed it for WNYuber several times in this thread. Thank You.


----------



## Zebonkey

MasterAbsher said:


> I'm truly independently wealthy at this point in my life,





MasterAbsher said:


> I believe when you stop working you die.


Or you get a hobby, you know, that will keep you busy, like bird-watching, rock climbing, model trains or early afternoon drinking.
Like most people do, when they have time, money and don't have to be anywhere in particular.


----------



## 5☆OG

I see it like this. I am a 5 star driver based on my rating i deserve a tip every trip. I dont give bad trips i only give trips to deadbeats. As for the people here who love to play devils advocate. I believe they are addicted to these boards and getting responses. In fact there have been studies that indicate its basically a hit of dopamine and therefore they get addicted to the social interactions. Because basically this argument is nothing but a waste of time. I know my worth..the end.


----------



## MiamiKid

mch said:


> Yep. The reality of the situation is that rideshare needs to be looked at the same way bartending, serving, and stripping do. Its not there yet. Hopefully it gets there.
> 
> I feel weird even talking about this stuff since I haven't even been driving a lot the past two months.
> 
> 
> Who's your favorite Beatle? Im a George guy myself.


McCartney. George's also cool. 
&#128077;


----------



## Nats121

MasterAbsher said:


> In my case, I dont care. I do this job to get out of the house. I'm truly independently wealthy at this point in my life


This is a free country, and as such you're free to do whatever you want.

Having said that, the very idea of a driver treating this job as some sort of hobby or social gathering truly sucks.

This ain't no hobby, this is a business, a business that's currently being run by evil people who play for keeps and hold their drivers in utter contempt. They use a cutthroat, take-no-prisoners approach with their drivers, and they love it when "suckers" treat this job as a hobby or social gathering.

Instead of helping zillionaires exploit their drivers and taking rides away from drivers who really need the money, do volunteer work.

There's lots of low income seniors who need rides, and Meals on Wheels is a very worthy service.

That's my opinion.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

Virginia is for lovers said:


> Taxi drivers .............Aren't we doing the same job?


T. Kalanick is on record before the D.C. City Council as stating that Uber does the same thing that the cab companies do. Of course, then he tells everyone that Uber is a "technology" company not a "transportation" company and people buy it. I wonder how THAT happened.



reg barclay said:


> What if rideshare had no fixed rates, and customers paid whatever they felt the service was worth.


Lyft was something similar in its early days. It put itself out there as a peer-to-peer network matching people who wanted rides to those who were "going that way". It suggested "donations", but the rider was free to "give" what he wanted. If you will go to the Lyft Boards and scroll back to the earliest topics, you will see complaints from drivers about getting "zeroed" or various other terms for it. I was not driving Lyft in that era, so I know about it only from what I have read or people told me.



SHalester said:


> ....and decide in less than 14 seconds? right


You get a customer who has been a user for some time and you must scroll down twenty seven pages of tipping history to hit "ACCEPT". On what planet?



MiamiKid said:


> Not expecting tips helps drastically from a motivational standpoint. Expectations are exceeded constantly.


Alexander Pope? "Blessed is he who waits for nothing, for he shall not be disappointed".

I will damn those who do not tip, but, I do not expect tips, either.

I am not unaware of the culture that T. Kalanick created.I do not like it, but there just _ain't nothing_ I can do about it. The only time that I "expect" a tip is from a demanding passenger or someone who works for tips..

Most of the demanding passengers do not tip, so I simply refuse their demands until I see something. Rarely do I,so they do not get what they want from me. They can threaten me with one star. I will inform them that I already have decided to "return the courtesy", so no biggie. They will not have given me my first one star nor will it be the last, either. They can tell me that I (allegedly) "blew" my tip that I was not going to get, anyhow. I let them know that I have been out here a bit too long to buy that one. They can threaten to get out/not take the trip.

"Somebody stole it?"

"....stole what?"

"....the door handle."

..........as for those who work for them, I fully support the driver who hits their gin mill, runs the dickens off their [donkey] then draws five stars on the tip line. As a participant in a stunt to exact vengeance from a waitress who never tipped her cab drivers, I must inform those of you who contemplate such a thing that the feeling of satisfaction ranks up there...................


----------



## fraqtl

Mostly I just find it puzzling that anyone thinks they are entitled to anything more than the fare.

It's nice to get them but you aren't entitled to them. Otherwise it would be in your partner agreement.


----------



## MiamiKid

Nats121 said:


> This is a free country, and as such you're free to do whatever you want.
> 
> Having said that, the very idea of a driver treating this job as some sort of hobby or social gathering truly sucks.
> 
> This ain't no hobby, this is a business, a business that's currently being run by evil people who play for keeps and hold their drivers in utter contempt. They use a cutthroat, take-no-prisoners approach with their drivers, and they love it when "suckers" treat this job as a hobby or social gathering.
> 
> Instead of helping zillionaires exploit their drivers and taking rides away from drivers who really need the money, do volunteer work.
> 
> There's lots of low income seniors who need rides, and Meals on Wheels is a very worthy service.
> 
> That's my opinion.


And you're entitled to that opinion.

However, I fall in that class, of drivers, you despise. I LOVE Uber's business model. It's tailor made for dudes like me.

My money's made. As an investor, my income's primarily residual. No, I don't have to work very hard.

So, doing Uber just for "KICKS"! Fun bucks. Country Club, Miami, Vegas and Europe.

⛳&#127958;&#127864;&#127864;&#128184;&#128184;&#128184;&#128741;&#128077;

So, yeah kinda of a lucrative hobby. The next couple months, buying UBER stock with driving proceeds. Since it's all play money anyway.

How's that for an attitude?
&#128526;


----------



## SHalester

Another Uber Driver said:


> You get a customer who has been a user for some time and you must scroll down twenty seven pages of tipping history to hit "ACCEPT". On what planet?


agreed the silliest idea ever.


----------



## JamesBond008

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


Because not all forum members are based in the United States!


----------



## SHalester

Nats121 said:


> very idea of a driver treating this job as some sort of hobby or social gathering truly sucks.


NO way? You mean it is not ok to do RS just to suck up time and maybe have a few extra bucks? You mean if you do RS you MUST depend on the RS income to pay bills?
News flash: 80% or more do this part-time for this or that reason. A big percent are folks who are retired and quite ok money wise and do this for scheduling mostly. 
<sarcasm level set to medium>


----------



## 125928

Ubertool said:


> I find your profile name offensive&#128513;


----------



## 5☆OG

and there is a difference between entitled and deserving. i dont expect tips i earn them.so people can call it what they want,you can troll or try to be controversial or todays antagonist...the fact still remains that this company help to cultivate a culture of abuse in many ways,this is but only one of them. thats all i have to say on this subject...next


----------



## Ubertool

MiamiKid said:


> And you're entitled to that opinion.
> 
> However, I fall in that class, of drivers, you despise. I LOVE Uber's business model. It's tailor made for dudes like me.
> 
> My money's made. As an investor, my income's primarily residual. No, I don't have to work very hard.
> 
> So, doing Uber just for "KICKS"! Fun bucks. Country Club, Miami, Vegas and Europe.
> 
> ⛳&#127958;&#127864;&#127864;&#128184;&#128184;&#128184;&#128741;&#128077;
> 
> So, yeah kinda of a lucrative hobby. The next couple months, buying UBER stock with driving proceeds. Since it's all play money anyway.
> 
> How's that for an attitude?
> &#128526;


Could you lend me a hand as the saddle on that horse of yours is mighty high. Come on down with us peasants .


----------



## MiamiKid

Ubertool said:


> Could you lend me a hand as the saddle on that horse of yours is mighty high. Come on down with us peasants .


They take a shot, I'll take a shot.

No worries.


----------



## Ubertool

MiamiKid said:


> They take a shot, I'll take a shot.
> 
> No worries.


Ignored, read enough of your thoughts


----------



## MiamiKid

Ubertool said:


> Ignored, read enough of your thoughts


Likewise


----------



## KK2929

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


--------------------------
It is very simple -- Tipping is optional. 
Tipping a waitress in a restaurant is optional but most people feel guilty if they do not tip. 
As for tipping the RS driver -- most people think that 100% of the fee they pay goes to the driver. Nothing we say will change that thought. They feel that they are already paying too much for the ride. Not going to tip, also. Some of the rides I have taken -- the driver did not speak one word of English ( or pretended not to) and took a long way around. Too many of them - the car is filthy, inside and out. Too many of them, the driver drives too fast and too reckless. Driver gets too personal or ask the wrong question -- low or no tip. Any driver that acts unprofessional with me -- will not get a tip.
I do not expect a tip and am flattered when they do tip. 
Many times an older Hispanic woman will hand me $2-3 as she gets out of the car. I picked her up at a large home in an upper income neighborhood. I know that she has been cleaning up after some rich family all day and still hands me money as she leaves the car. These are the people that I appreciate .

View attachment 407019

[/QUOTE]
____________________
LOL !!! I would tip that guy all day long !!!! Cute little guy !!



Virginia is for lovers said:


> My boy exactly two hours ago. Is the Italian badger watching? &#128556;&#128584;
> 
> View attachment 407025


-----------------------
How cute !! He is in a safe place and very happy.


----------



## Funky Monkey

SHalester said:


> who are the defenders? Tips are optional. We are NOT wait staff, you realize that, yeah? Unlike some I don't count on tips and treat them like xmas morning each time I receive one. The delayed gratification tips are the BEST. Just got one the other day from a 12/23 ride.
> 
> And before your head explodes as a pax I always tip.....in the app.... As I driver I don't expect them, don't count on them, don't budget for them. When I get 'em......NICE! When I don't I'm not crying, moaning, whining or become depressed.
> 
> If I wanted tips all the time, I'd get a job as a restaurant. OH, in a previous life I did that, but wasn't front room staff. No, I was the dishwasher. hahahahaha
> 
> What I really really want is more than 60% of my pax to just RATE the dam ride. puhleeeeze
> 
> and may this be my 51 posts and not happen.....


See above post. Summed up perfectly. I received $0 tips today which really smarts because I didn't put up a big number BUT I'm not a waiter and generally make more than $2-4 p/hr so that's life. Very unusual for me to get stiffed across the board but makes you appreciate the 40% who do tip!


----------



## MiamiKid

Funky Monkey said:


> See above post. Summed up perfectly. I received $0 tips today which really smarts because I didn't put up a big number BUT I'm not a waiter and generally make more than $2-4 p/hr so that's life. Very unusual for me to get stiffed across the board but makes you appreciate the 40% who do tip!


Stiffed across the board? Don't think so.


----------



## yogi bear

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


because uber subtly marketed themselves as a service that didn't require tipping when they started??


----------



## Nats121

SHalester said:


> NO way? You mean it is not ok to do RS just to suck up time and maybe have a few extra bucks? You mean if you do RS you MUST depend on the RS income to pay bills?
> News flash: 80% or more do this part-time for this or that reason. A big percent are folks who are retired and quite ok money wise and do this for scheduling mostly.
> <sarcasm level set to medium>


Extra bucks? The guy said he's independently wealthy and doesn't need the money.

There's a zillion things more worthwhile for a rich person to do with their time than work for an exploitative company and take rides away from drivers who really need the money.

On top of that, these drivers are more likely to be Uber bootlickers.

In the grand scheme of things, drivers like him are a tiny percentage of Uber's driverforce, small enough that they don't even register on the radar screen, but this is a matter of principle.

As I said, he has a right to do it and I have a right to disapprove.



MiamiKid said:


> And you're entitled to that opinion.
> 
> However, I fall in that class, of drivers, you despise. I LOVE Uber's business model. It's tailor made for dudes like me.
> 
> My money's made. As an investor, my income's primarily residual. No, I don't have to work very hard.
> 
> So, doing Uber just for "KICKS"! Fun bucks. Country Club, Miami, Vegas and Europe.
> 
> ⛳&#127958;&#127864;&#127864;&#128184;&#128184;&#128184;&#128741;&#128077;
> 
> So, yeah kinda of a lucrative hobby. The next couple months, buying UBER stock with driving proceeds. Since it's all play money anyway.
> 
> How's that for an attitude?
> &#128526;


I don't believe you're independently wealthy at all.

You've said on many occasions that you support Uber 100%.

That means you support ALL of the wonderful things they do and have done, including the bad pay, lying to drivers, pax, and the public. That also means you support all of the unjust firings they've done to drivers, etc, etc, etc.

By offering your 100% support to Uber regardless of how unethical their actions are means you're unethical as well.


----------



## dauction

It isn't the PAX fault that UBer isn't paying a fair wage.

Also ..if we were to get tipped the same as Waiters/Waitress... then a $6 ride tip would be .75 cents.. and the Wait Staff just worked for 45 minutes comparted to us working 6 minutes (6 minute trip)


----------



## MiamiKid

Nats121 said:


> Extra bucks? The guy said he's independently wealthy and doesn't need the money.
> 
> There's a zillion things more worthwhile for a rich person to do with their time than work for an exploitative company and take rides away from drivers who really need the money.
> 
> On top of that, these drivers are more likely to be Uber bootlickers.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, drivers like him are a tiny percentage of Uber's driverforce, small enough that they don't even register on the radar screen, but this is a matter of principle.
> 
> As I said, he has a right to do it and I have a right to disapprove.
> 
> 
> I don't believe you're independently wealthy at all.
> 
> You've said on many occasions that you support Uber 100%.
> 
> That means you support ALL of the wonderful things they do and have done, including the bad pay, lying to drivers, pax, and the public. That also means you support all of the unjust firings they've done to drivers, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> By offering your 100% support to Uber regardless of how unethical their actions are means you're unethical as well.


Let me state again:

STRONGLY SUPPORT UBER 100%!

This includes every single business practice they engage in! Don't like it? Tough luck.

My two cents
&#128526;



Nats121 said:


> Extra bucks? The guy said he's independently wealthy and doesn't need the money.
> 
> There's a zillion things more worthwhile for a rich person to do with their time than work for an exploitative company and take rides away from drivers who really need the money.
> 
> On top of that, these drivers are more likely to be Uber bootlickers.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, drivers like him are a tiny percentage of Uber's driverforce, small enough that they don't even register on the radar screen, but this is a matter of principle.
> 
> As I said, he has a right to do it and I have a right to disapprove.
> 
> 
> I don't believe you're independently wealthy at all.
> 
> You've said on many occasions that you support Uber 100%.
> 
> That means you support ALL of the wonderful things they do and have done, including the bad pay, lying to drivers, pax, and the public. That also means you support all of the unjust firings they've done to drivers, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> By offering your 100% support to Uber regardless of how unethical their actions are means you're unethical as well.


May I suggest some counseling or therapy for you? Would be hugely beneficial.



Nats121 said:


> Extra bucks? The guy said he's independently wealthy and doesn't need the money.
> 
> There's a zillion things more worthwhile for a rich person to do with their time than work for an exploitative company and take rides away from drivers who really need the money.
> 
> On top of that, these drivers are more likely to be Uber bootlickers.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, drivers like him are a tiny percentage of Uber's driverforce, small enough that they don't even register on the radar screen, but this is a matter of principle.
> 
> As I said, he has a right to do it and I have a right to disapprove.
> 
> 
> I don't believe you're independently wealthy at all.
> 
> You've said on many occasions that you support Uber 100%.
> 
> That means you support ALL of the wonderful things they do and have done, including the bad pay, lying to drivers, pax, and the public. That also means you support all of the unjust firings they've done to drivers, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> By offering your 100% support to Uber regardless of how unethical their actions are means you're unethical as well.


BTW: Am now a proud Uber stockholder! &#128077;

So, reaping the FULL benefits of all Uber's business practices. Plus the $1400/mo residual they send me.

THANKS UBER!
&#127864;&#127864;


----------



## Nats121

MiamiKid said:


> May I suggest some counseling or therapy for you? Would be hugely beneficial.


That's a funny comment coming from a grown man who trolls this website with posts that look they were written by a bratty and spiteful 6 year old.


----------



## MiamiKid

Nats121 said:


> That's a funny comment coming from a grown man who trolls this website with posts that look they were written by a bratty and spiteful 6 year old.


"You people" wanna take a shot? I'll take a shot with substance.

My two cents
&#128526;



Nats121 said:


> That's a funny comment coming from a grown man who trolls this website with posts that look they were written by a bratty and spiteful 6 year old.


BTW: 7% of Uber drivers are fulltime. 
&#128526;


----------



## Another Uber Driver

MiamiKid said:


> BTW: Am now a proud Uber stockholder!


That _ain't_ bragging material.


----------



## SHalester

Nats121 said:


> The guy said he's independently wealthy and doesn't need the money.


I saw. I'm in the same boat, tho maybe his boat is a bit bigger, maybe. And not a comment I'd through out so loud in a public forum indexed like in real-time. 
BUT to say retired people some how shouldn't do RS due to their investments is quite silly. To make room for somebody else? Yeah, no. Next.


----------



## MiamiKid

SHalester said:


> I saw. I'm in the same boat, tho maybe his boat is a bit bigger, maybe. And not a comment I'd through out so loud in a public forum indexed like in real-time.
> BUT to say retired people some how shouldn't do RS due to their investments is quite silly. To make room for somebody else? Yeah, no. Next.


Know I'm fairly loud on this. However, I try not to criticize others until I'm attacked. And the insults and criticisms, directed at semi retired drivers, appears to be constant.

You seem to have a positive attitude and appreciate your insight. &#128077;


----------



## Virginia is for lovers

KK2929 said:


> --------------------------
> It is very simple -- Tipping is optional.
> Tipping a waitress in a restaurant is optional but most people feel guilty if they do not tip.
> As for tipping the RS driver -- most people think that 100% of the fee they pay goes to the driver. Nothing we say will change that thought. They feel that they are already paying too much for the ride. Not going to tip, also. Some of the rides I have taken -- the driver did not speak one word of English ( or pretended not to) and took a long way around. Too many of them - the car is filthy, inside and out. Too many of them, the driver drives too fast and too reckless. Driver gets too personal or ask the wrong question -- low or no tip. Any driver that acts unprofessional with me -- will not get a tip.
> I do not expect a tip and am flattered when they do tip.
> Many times an older Hispanic woman will hand me $2-3 as she gets out of the car. I picked her up at a large home in an upper income neighborhood. I know that she has been cleaning up after some rich family all day and still hands me money as she leaves the car. These are the people that I appreciate .
> 
> View attachment 407019


____________________
LOL !!! I would tip that guy all day long !!!! Cute little guy !!


-----------------------
How cute !! He is in a safe place and very happy.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks. He is in the outskirts of Kabul Afghaniatan. His maternal uncle is holding him in the picture.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

My quarrel is far less with the people who do the TNC work and more with the mere existence of the TNCs and their practices.

The basic business model of the TNC is that anyone with a vehicle that a given TNC will accept can do the job. These people who are doing this job are merely taking advantage of an "opportunity" offered to them by a given TNC. How much of an "opportunity" it is or is not is debatable, but, the TNCs do not have too many requirements about a contractor's economic status or situation.

I am hard put to find any reason to include a "need" factor as a determinant for who is or _ain't 'llowed to do no job._


----------



## jazzapt

I wouldn't say I defend non-tippers. But I don't get mad at them for a few reasons.

First, because I understand the non-tipping mentality. I don't like tipping myself. *Let me make it clear, in tipping situations, I always tip*. But I don't like to. Therefore instead of not tipping, I go out of my way to avoid utilizing services where tips are expected whenever possible. For example I drive myself everywhere, I wash my own car, I never valet, I make my own coffee and bagels at home, I carry my own luggage at hotels, I limit how much I eat out at restaurants, etc... That said, when I HAVE to utilize these services I always make sure to tip.

Also, I understand that although drivers would like, and in some cases, expect tips, the idea that pax SHOULD tip has never been a part of rider culture in the rideshare industry. Uber themselves made sure that was the case until just recently. And just because they allow tips now, Uber (and to a lesser extent, Lyft) doesn't really do anything to make riders think they should tip on every ride.

As a matter of fact the largest portion of the public who believe rideshare drivers should be tipped on every ride are rideshare drivers. And we can complain about it all we want, but unfortunately we just come off as whiners. And we can try all the tricks we want, like down-grading riders for not tipping, but that won't work as we do not have the power by ourselves to change public perception. It would be up to Uber and/or Lyft to put out a media campaign to in order to attempt to make that change to rideshare culture. And they will never do that. Because lets face it, if riders thought tipping was necessary, there would be many non-tippers like me that would chose not to utilize rideshare.

So at the end of the day I made a choice to sign on to a service where tipping is not known to be the norm (and wasn't even allowed when I first signed on). So I don't expect it. I am always willing to do what I can to help change that perception. But I don't get mad because I realize that tipping is not part of the rideshare norm, whether I like it or not.


----------



## SHalester

MiamiKid said:


> Know I'm fairly loud on this.


my post wasn't referring to you....this time. :thumbup: The retired percent of RS drivers is not small thing, so confusing why they might be a target. PT is a HUGE group; over 80% and they too are target. Odd
If I had to do this full time to cover bills I'd be in deep doodoo.


----------



## MiamiKid

SHalester said:


> my post wasn't referring to you....this time. :thumbup: The retired percent of RS drivers is not small thing, so confusing why they might be a target. PT is a HUGE group; over 80% and they too are target. Odd
> If I had to do this full time to cover bills I'd be in deep doodoo.


Agreed. Although some choose to drive Uber fulltime, it'd be very difficult. The one's who do it are 60 - 70 hour/weeks. Some will do 90 hours.

To me this was all evident early on. What does bother me, however, is Uber pushing it's leasing plan. Has to be a low success rate.

Also, utilize Uber, as a pax, and most drivers I talk to are part time or semi retired (80 - 90%). Which is where I am.


----------



## SHalester

MiamiKid said:


> Also, utilize Uber, as a pax, and most drivers I talk to are part time or semi retired (80 - 90%)


me too and found that as well. A few of my drivers do it full time, tho. Not long enough ride to find out why they do it full time....


----------



## Nats121

MiamiKid said:


> BTW: 7% of Uber drivers are fulltime.


It's a lot more than 7%.

A professor obtained leaked documents from Uber that stated the majority of NYC drivers derive most of their income from RS.

Full time drivers provide a disproportionately large percentage of the rides and they provide the majority of the most important rides, which are the Mon-Fri commute rides.


----------



## SHalester

numbers from Uber and others generally say around 80% of drivers do so for 20 or less hours a week. Which would mean maybe 1/5 are close to full time.


----------



## Nats121

SHalester said:


> numbers from Uber and others generally say around 80% of drivers do so for 20 or less hours a week. Which would mean maybe 1/5 are close to full time.


Even Uber acknowledged that those 20% of drivers that are full time provide a lot more than 20% of the total rides.

The most important part of RS by far is the Mon-Fri commutes, which are dominated by full timers, and if this were not the case, there never would have been an AB5 or the strict regulations in NYC.


SHalester said:


> Tips are optional. We are NOT wait staff, you realize that, yeah?


Tips are optional for waitstaff as well.

Waitstaff are also guaranteed to be paid at least the minimum wage.

A strong case can be made that RS drivers need tips MORE than waitstaff due to the fact that they have major overhead (cars) that waitstaff don't have and no minimum wage protection.

Waitstaff should be tipped but so should RS drivers.

Non-tippers are cheap shitheads.



MiamiKid said:


> This includes every single business practice they engage in!


Have the balls to come out and say you agree with Uber's decision to unjustly fire drivers due to false accusations by Uber and the pax.


----------



## MiamiKid

Nats121 said:


> It's a lot more than 7%.
> 
> A professor obtained leaked documents from Uber that stated the majority of NYC drivers derive most of their income from RS.
> 
> Full time drivers provide a disproportionately large percentage of the rides and they provide the majority of the most important rides, which are the Mon-Fri commute rides.


State what you wish. And I'll believe what I see. You can google the stats for yourself.

I use Uber, as a pax, constantly. Very few drivers, I've spoken with are fulltime. Not even 7%.

But, couldn't care less whether you approve of supplemental only, drivers such as myself, or not. We're going to continue regardless.



Nats121 said:


> Even Uber acknowledged that those 20% of drivers that are full time provide a lot more than 20% of the total rides.
> 
> The most important part of RS by far is the Mon-Fri commutes, which are dominated by full timers, and if this were not the case, there never would have been an AB5 or the strict regulations in NYC.
> 
> Tips are optional for waitstaff as well.
> 
> Waitstaff are also guaranteed to be paid at least the minimum wage.
> 
> A strong case can be made that RS drivers need tips MORE than waitstaff due to the fact that they have major overhead (cars) that waitstaff don't have and no minimum wage protection.
> 
> Waitstaff should be tipped but so should RS drivers.
> 
> Non-tippers are cheap shitheads.
> 
> 
> Have the balls to come out and say you agree with Uber's decision to unjustly fire drivers due to false accusations by Uber and the pax.


No problem. As a current driver, I totally support Uber's decision to fire drivers with, or without, cause!

Free Market Capitalism!!!!
MAGA 2020



MiamiKid said:


> State what you wish. And I'll believe what I see. You can google the stats for yourself.
> 
> I use Uber, as a pax, constantly. Very few drivers, I've spoken with are fulltime. Not even 7%.
> 
> But, couldn't care less whether you approve of supplemental only, drivers such as myself, or not. We're going to continue regardless.
> 
> 
> No problem. As a current driver, I totally support Uber's decision to fire drivers with, or without, cause!
> 
> Free Market Capitalism!!!!
> MAGA 2020


How's that?
&#128526;


----------



## Nats121

MiamiKid said:


> No problem. As a current driver, I totally support Uber's decision to fire drivers with, or without, cause!
> 
> Free Market Capitalism!!!!
> MAGA 2020


You're trying to dodge my challenge by changing it to with or without cause.

I challenged you to to say you support Uber's decision to fire drivers they knew were innocent of what they were accused of.

Falsely accusing and firing workers is NOT free market capitalism, it's plain and simple evil behavior.

Milton Friedman was a staunch supporter of free market capitalism, and as such would probably be opposed to govt getting involved in unjust firings of workers, but even he would be personally repulsed by that type of scummy behavior, the very type you say you support 100%.


----------



## MiamiKid

Nats121 said:


> You're trying to dodge my challenge by changing it to with or without cause.
> 
> I challenged you to to say you support Uber's decision to fire drivers they knew were innocent of what they were accused of.
> 
> Falsely accusing and firing workers is NOT free market capitalism, it's plain and simple evil behavior.
> 
> Milton Friedman was a staunch supporter of free market capitalism, and as such would probably be opposed to govt getting involved in unjust firings of workers, but even he would be personally repulsed by that type of scummy behavior, the very type you say you support 100%.


UBER ROCKS!



MiamiKid said:


> UBER ROCKS!


Guess what? Don't care what you think! Will never know you. Get over it.

This is great entertainment. Again supporting Uber's decision making.


----------



## SHalester

Nats121 said:


> Even Uber acknowledged that those 20% of drivers that are full time provide a lot more than 20% of the total rides.


I'm afraid I'm not going to buy how many rides one provides makes a difference to anybody. Sure, there are full time drivers who have thousands of rides per year. OK, big deal. Then there are part-time drivers who couldn't make GOLD if the waters parted for them.

Uber needs both groups. Many say RS was never designed to be full time; I'm neutral on that. I worked full time. Have thousands and thousands of hours, days, week and months working for a living in a W2 job; big whopping deal.

RS offers an easy entrance bar and a pretty easy job with mucho flexibility. This full time vs part time groups is silly, imho. One group IS much larger than the other and that is a fact. So what.

RS offers enough for a variety of people and amen for that, aye?



Nats121 said:


> I challenged you to to say you support Uber's decision to fire drivers they knew were innocent of what they were accused of.


How about this: Uber raises the bar to entry for being a driver AND creates a driver appeal board to 'hear' the drivers side of false accusations. Fair? One kinda relates to the other I think.


----------



## MiamiKid

SHalester said:


> I'm afraid I'm not going to buy how many rides one provides makes a difference to anybody. Sure, there are full time drivers who have thousands of rides per year. OK, big deal. Then there are part-time drivers who couldn't make GOLD if the waters parted for them.
> 
> Uber needs both groups. Many say RS was never designed to be full time; I'm neutral on that. I worked full time. Have thousands and thousands of hours, days, week and months working for a living in a W2 job; big whopping deal.
> 
> RS offers an easy entrance bar and a pretty easy job with mucho flexibility. This full time vs part time groups is silly, imho. One group IS much larger than the other and that is a fact. So what.
> 
> RS offers enough for a variety of people and amen for that, aye?


Very well stated


----------



## DriverMark

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


Not surprised this thread has many posters.

I don't justify non-tippers. But, Uber created the culture when it first started that there is "no need to tip the driver". And at the time, yea that probably was true. But given the many earnings droppings since it first came out, it would greatly help for folks to tip. But, the culture is now set. It's hard to change that culture unless Uber/Lyft do some things to help actually change it.


----------



## SHalester

oh, and I should add I got a whopping $3 tip today.


----------



## Nats121

SHalester said:


> I'm afraid I'm not going to buy how many rides one provides makes a difference to anybody.


How many rides an individual driver makes is important only to him/her.

What's important to Uber (and the govt) is how many rides a particular CLASS of driver makes.

And even though full timers are supposedly around 20% of the driver total, their importance as a CLASS of drivers is vastly disproportionate to their numbers.

They provide many more rides per driver than part timers, but more importantly to Uber, they do the bulk of the COMMUTER rides, which are far and away the most important to Uber and its ultimate goal, which has always been to REPLACE public transit.

Obviously all trips are important to Uber, but if you're gonna ask if driving drunks is anywhere near important to Uber's plans as driving commuters to and from work or the airport, it's none even close.

Drunks and diners are a niche part of the RS business, commuters are the bedrock core of the RS business.

There would be no AB5 were it not for the full timers. California and NYC would never have passed RS laws if this was the "side gig" or "side hustle" Uber has pretended it to be.

Their fear of AB5-type of laws is the reason they've tried so hard to hide their reliance on full time drivers since the 2014-15 pay cuts.


----------



## SHalester

Nats121 said:


> And even though full timers are supposedly around 20% of the driver total, their importance as a CLASS of drivers is vastly disproportionate to their numbers.


I'll take that as your opinion as I have not seen that stat stated anywhere, ever. Plus, doesn't matter. Mine is bigger than yours has no meaning (here). A few do this full time and most do some portion of hours per week. Nobody looks at how many rides they do compared to anyone else, well except for THIS Forum. Uber needs part timers and full timers, period. As to how many use uber to commute to work, that I think you need to research a lot more. RS is not cheap over the long or short term for getting to work. Much cheaper options available.


----------



## Nats121

SHalester said:


> How about this: Uber raises the bar to entry for being a driver AND creates a driver appeal board to 'hear' the drivers side of false accusations. Fair? One kinda relates to the other I think.


Yeah, that's fair.

The simple act of paying drivers a decent wage would also raise the bar, because a decent wage would attract the higher caliber of driver that Uber used to have in the early days when pay was much higher.

On many occasions I've called for a genuine appeal process for drivers to defend themselves, including the use of dashcam footage. If Uber accuses a driver of engaging in "fraudulent activity", the driver should be provided a legitimate opportunity to defend themselves to an actual human being.

I've also advocated that Uber should strongly encourage drivers to use dashcams, and they should tell the pax that the use of dashcams is strongly supported by Uber. That alone would greatly reduce the number of false accusations.


----------



## New2This

mrpjfresh said:


> My market if small enough I typically unmatch with these or waiters who do not type when I get them again.


THIS is how you handle non-topping waiters/bartenders:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/bart...ports-bar-then-stiffs-me.149822/#post-2242388


----------



## Nats121

SHalester said:


> I'll take that as your opinion as I have not seen that stat stated anywhere, ever. Plus, doesn't matter. Mine is bigger than yours has no meaning (here). A few do this full time and most do some portion of hours per week. Nobody looks at how many rides they do compared to anyone else, well except for THIS Forum. Uber needs part timers and full timers, period. As to how many use uber to commute to work, that I think you need to research a lot more. RS is not cheap over the long or short term for getting to work. Much cheaper options available.


The 20% figure was bounced around during the IPO application process.

Again, it's not about individual drivers, it's about class of drivers.

Look it up. Travis and Uber have always made it clear that supplanting public transit is the goal. They've even gone so far as conspiring to ban privately owned SDCs from cities.
https://gizmodo.com/uber-and-lyft-have-a-hot-new-idea-for-screwing-over-cit-1822661060


----------



## SHalester

Nats121 said:


> The 20% figure was bounced around during the IPO application process.


it has been brought way more often than the IPO; most recently the Uber sex assaults report. Uber has repeated as well as journalists many times over the last year or so. As a 'class' full timers do not get any more rights or anything vs part timers. They decided to do it full time knowing full well there was nothing beyond more rides that would come their way. NO extra rights as a 'sub class' of driver.

AB5 is great for the extra goodies we have, but I'm afraid becoming an employee isn't a wish of mine as I know exaclty what that will mean. Hard pass.


----------



## Nats121

SHalester said:


> it has been brought way more often than the IPO; most recently the Uber sex assaults report. Uber has repeated as well as journalists many times over the last year or so. As a 'class' full timers do not get any more rights or anything vs part timers. They decided to do it full time knowing full well there was nothing beyond more rides that would come their way. NO extra rights as a 'sub class' of driver.
> 
> AB5 is great for the extra goodies we have, but I'm afraid becoming an employee isn't a wish of mine as I know exaclty what that will mean. Hard pass.


Who said anything about getting "more rights" ?


----------



## Babak

Uber/LYFT is too cheap not to tip. Even waiters/waitresses/bartenders don’t tip


----------



## nj9000

I don't get upset at non-tippers because the pay is ok without tips. I average about $20/hr before expenses. I think it beats working retail for sure. 

When I got upset with non-tippers is when I worked pizza delivery for $6/hr (before gas/expenses on my car...) and people wouldn't tip. I quit that job because of it! I had worked for better pizza places but there are seriously ones out there that pay like you need tips to survive, but also charge a delivery fee that you don't get. $0 tips, and $2-$3 tips with $6/hr just doesn't pay to live much less maintenance on the car and its insulting. Some Uber drivers who get upset about tips don't seem to understand how bad it can really be :roflmao: 

I like tips, but I like checking how much I've made and seeing it was without tips. It gives me anxiety seeing I've made a lot and finding out a lot of it was tips, makes me feel like I'm reliant on them.

Uber is meant to undercut taxi services. Part of that and the original selling point to customers, was just being able to hop in and out of the Uber without worrying about cash/tips. So I understand how there aren't always tips.


----------



## 123dragon

Nats121 said:


> The 20% figure was bounced around during the IPO application process.
> 
> Again, it's not about individual drivers, it's about class of drivers.
> 
> Look it up. Travis and Uber have always made it clear that supplanting public transit is the goal. They've even gone so far as conspiring to ban privately owned SDCs from cities.
> https://gizmodo.com/uber-and-lyft-have-a-hot-new-idea-for-screwing-over-cit-1822661060


Is there any research that shows that full time drivers do the majority of commuters in area's where the majority of drivers are not required to be full-time? NYC drivers obviously do the bulk since the majority are full timers due to the barrier of entry required by needing to buy commercial insurance.

I've tried search the internet and I can't find any evidence of that claim.


----------



## Nats121

123dragon said:


> Is there any research that shows that full time drivers do the majority of commuters in area's where the majority of drivers are not required to be full-time? NYC drivers obviously do the bulk since the majority are full timers due to the barrier of entry required by needing to buy commercial insurance.
> 
> I've tried search the internet and I can't find any evidence of that claim.


Use common sense and arithmetic...

Just like public transit, most Uber trips are the Mon-Fri commutes.

The Mon-Fri commute shifts total approx 30 hours per week.

Most Uber drivers are part time, work less than 20 hours per week, and do it as a second job.

Most full time jobs are day jobs, which means most moonlighters work nights and weekends.

This means most part time Uber drivers are available after work and on weekends.

This also means that most part time Uber drivers are unavailable for commuter duty.

By contrast the vast majority of full timers are available for commuter duty.

Thus, logic dictates that most commuter trips are being done by full timers.


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler

MiamiKid said:


> Stiffed across the board? Don't think so.


I don't take many rides a day,maybe 10. I have gone a lot of days without a tip. 4.95 driver that knows how to deal with people and give good service. Some days I do good on tips. It's hit or miss.



SHalester said:


> I saw. I'm in the same boat, tho maybe his boat is a bit bigger, maybe. And not a comment I'd through out so loud in a public forum indexed like in real-time.
> BUT to say retired people some how shouldn't do RS due to their investments is quite silly. To make room for somebody else? Yeah, no. Next.


I'm one of those semi-retired. I have things I like to do. Fishing,hiking,camping and happy hour just to name a few. Deal is, I don't like to do anything 24/7. Uber puts money in my pocket and fills hours of my time. I'm not wealthy and the money helps. Drivers shouldn't be trying to make up rules about who should drive and who shouldn't. The only rules that matter are the requirements to drive. Meet the requirements and you can get in your car and give it some gas.



nj9000 said:


> I don't get upset at non-tippers because the pay is ok without tips. I average about $20/hr before expenses. I think it beats working retail for sure.
> 
> When I got upset with non-tippers is when I worked pizza delivery for $6/hr (before gas/expenses on my car...) and people wouldn't tip. I quit that job because of it! I had worked for better pizza places but there are seriously ones out there that pay like you need tips to survive, but also charge a delivery fee that you don't get. $0 tips, and $2-$3 tips with $6/hr just doesn't pay to live much less maintenance on the car and its insulting. Some Uber drivers who get upset about tips don't seem to understand how bad it can really be :roflmao:
> 
> I like tips, but I like checking how much I've made and seeing it was without tips. It gives me anxiety seeing I've made a lot and finding out a lot of it was tips, makes me feel like I'm reliant on them.
> 
> Uber is meant to undercut taxi services. Part of that and the original selling point to customers, was just being able to hop in and out of the Uber without worrying about cash/tips. So I understand how there aren't always tips.


I think what the original OP is missing is that there is a difference between defending and understanding. I get it that this minimum wage fast food worker paying Uber $10 twice a day isn't going to tip. I don't expect it,therefor I'm not disappointed. I'm not defending,I'm understanding.


----------



## 123dragon

Nats121 said:


> Use common sense and arithmetic...
> 
> Just like public transit, most Uber trips are the Mon-Fri commutes.
> 
> The Mon-Fri commute shifts total approx 30 hours per week.
> 
> Most Uber drivers are part time, work less than 20 hours per week, and do it as a second job.
> 
> Most full time jobs are day jobs, which means most moonlighters work nights and weekends.
> 
> This means most part time Uber drivers are available after work and on weekends.
> 
> This also means that most part time Uber drivers are unavailable for commuter duty.
> 
> By contrast the vast majority of full timers are available for commuter duty.
> 
> Thus, logic dictates that most commuter trips are being done by full timers.


This doesn't demonstrate causality. Is there any real evidence to your claim or did you just make it up?

Rates are shit so I don't drive as much anymore but when I did I would actually just leave a little early and do a ride or two on my way to work. Main reason being that it allowed me to write off my work commute on my taxes since I was Ubering. I still do it today just don't take passengers the majority of the time. Obviously this anecdotal like much of your claims.

You also assume that all full-time people work the same hours. I don't see that as being the cases since most offices have 10:30 - 3:30 as their core hours. There is a wide range of flexibility in the hours people work around that and then place may have people on different shifts.

Are surges or peak demand even highest during the commute? Highest surges I've gotten are during night rides. Again anecdotal but what data or evidence do you have that shows that morning commute has most rides.


----------



## MiamiKid

WNYuber said:


> I'm not gonna let u get the last word in on me, I'll stay up all God damn night and argue with u Kang. You can't win, your not a tipper. You don't have good karma. Your defending the root of the problem with this gig, the cheapo Pax. Like I said, tips solve EVERYTHING, they move right to the bottom line. Show me a successful driver and I'll show u a person with a 75% tip rate with generous Pax.
> Your just a manateee floating in the water accepting mediocrity....."oh well another non-tipper".... we'll get'em next time.


Did you have another sleepless night worrying about tips? &#128513;


----------



## PoorAssUberDriver

Personally, I seem to make about 20% tips. I never expect them. Perhaps it’s the driver? I know there is also a bit of racism involved, I have had countless pax tip me because I’m white, my car doesn’t smell like smoke, and I don’t drive a Prius. This is San Diego where most people are connected to the military and don’t care for Arabs so maybe it’s just here?


----------



## peteyvavs

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


We contract to pickup pax's at a given rate, that's all a pax is required to pay and what we agreed to by accepting the trip. Tipping is not required.


----------



## Gone_in_60_seconds

Virginia is for lovers said:


> Taxi drivers get tips almost always. So why not Uber/Lyft drivers. Aren't we doing the same job?


Because, the app provides a degree of anonymity to the pax. They figure they never have to see you again and give you money directly, so why tip you? It allows for the avoidance of that awkward moment when money changes hands.


----------



## FLKeys

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


Some people just like to stir the pot. But hey, if they don't want tips I'm fine with that. Just don't tell people they should not tip me.

I don't expect tips, I feel I provide above average service in my area and I am more often than not tipped.


----------



## Jon77

If you don’t expect tips you will never be disappointed.
I am never disappointed.
It sucks but that’s just the way it is.
Uber has trained customers to not tip.

I don’t think the problem is with the customer, I think the problem is with the company, and if Uber tomorrow increased UberX pay to two fifty a mile I don’t think any driver would even be worried about tips.
Except of course a few who still won’t be happy without tips.

This is not really a job, it can’t be done like most jobs, it can only be done part time.
You need volume to make this work and that’s generally only when people are heading out to the restaurants and bars.


----------



## Misunderstood Pirate

Virginia is for lovers said:


> Taxi drivers get tips almost always. So why not Uber/Lyft drivers. Aren't we doing the same job?


You are not a professional driver. It's a side gig.


----------



## ghrdrd

SHalester said:


> and treat them like xmas morning each time I receive one. The delayed gratification tips are the BEST.


That's so sad. My sincerest condolences. On a serious note, you should get out more. Maybe get a gf or something.


----------



## SHalester

ghrdrd said:


> That's so sad. My sincerest condolences. On a serious note, you should get out more. Maybe get a gf or something.


what would my wife say? AND I walk/jog 5 miles per day; that is quite enough outside time for me. -o:


----------



## got a p

Nats121 said:


> How many rides an individual driver makes is important only to him/her.
> 
> What's important to Uber (and the govt) is how many rides a particular CLASS of driver makes.
> 
> And even though full timers are supposedly around 20% of the driver total, their importance as a CLASS of drivers is vastly disproportionate to their numbers.
> 
> They provide many more rides per driver than part timers, but more importantly to Uber, they do the bulk of the COMMUTER rides, which are far and away the most important to Uber and its ultimate goal, which has always been to REPLACE public transit.
> 
> Obviously all trips are important to Uber, but if you're gonna ask if driving drunks is anywhere near important to Uber's plans as driving commuters to and from work or the airport, it's none even close.
> 
> Drunks and diners are a niche part of the RS business, commuters are the bedrock core of the RS business.
> 
> There would be no AB5 were it not for the full timers. California and NYC would never have passed RS laws if this was the "side gig" or "side hustle" Uber has pretended it to be.
> 
> Their fear of AB5-type of laws is the reason they've tried so hard to hide their reliance on full time drivers since the 2014-15 pay cuts.


this guy gets it. although fulltimers *also *makeup a huge portion of weekend night driving, as well as after hours driving, as well as the work commutes, as well as the airport runs...you get the point i'm making.

without part timers uber/lyft will survive. there would be a bit more surge and less downtime. without fulltimers they are dead in the water.


----------



## SHalester

got a p said:


> without part timers uber/lyft will survive


that would be your opinion vs a fact. Pretty sure even Uber wouldn't agree with that. Could Uber lose 80% of the active drivers? Pretty sure not.


----------



## got a p

MiamiKid said:


> BTW: 7% of Uber drivers are fulltime.
> &#128526;


i guessed 10%. how did you get such an accurate number?


----------



## SHalester

the most recent stat from Uber is 80% drive for 20 or less hours per week. What you do with the 20% is up to you as it would be a guess.


----------



## got a p

SHalester said:


> that would be your opinion vs a fact. Pretty sure even Uber wouldn't agree with that. Could Uber lose 80% of the active drivers? Pretty sure not.


this guy works for uber. he's one of their shills. i said 10% he's saying 7%. i was ballparking it and 10% is close enough rounded up. i beathe arithmatic and when i hear certain numbers thrown out there my mind has already put together these estimates. i'm not kidding, i'm basically autistic when it comes to putting numbers together.

sorry you're so apathetic and defensive when faced with the truth. i'm not knocking you part timer, you should relax. maybe get a gf?


----------



## SHalester

got a p said:


> sorry you're so apathetic and defensive


who? nobody in this thread 'works' for Uber. I posted the facts as presented by the only authority who has access to the database to state said facts. Catch up.


----------



## MiamiKid

got a p said:


> i guessed 10%. how did you get such an accurate number?


googled


----------



## got a p

mch said:


> A pax's tipping history should be available to the driver before accepting the ping.
> 
> Not in the form of some subjective rating given by the driver. It should be in the form of some score, ratio, or average percentage. The numbers are there. We should have access to them. Pax who tip better and more often should get better service and shorter wait times.
> 
> People who don't tip or tip at a low percentage....well, money talks and bullshit walks, or rides their bike, or takes the bus, or waits until the smelly crackhead 4.50 rated driver who doesn't care about tips shows up.
> 
> Tip your Uber driver.


i like the cut of your jib man &#128077;

this sounds like a race to the top, the exact opposite of the race to the bottom uber is trying out.

in their scenario inevitably people will drive for less. in your scenario people will inevitably make more.

even if people have bad tipping rating they will still get a ride, just not for below base. people with good tipping rating will get treated as the VIPs that they are, and their tips would be kinda like getting a surge. thus the tip rating could be construed as a surge to an extent. uber could have used a guy like you, who thinks outside the box, early on. tips don't affect their bottom line.

i've had many tipping jobs in my life, starting with pizza delivery, then waiting tables, then bartending and now cab driving - or rideshare as we call it these days. i've wondered about why we don't get tipped for providing an arguably better service at a much lower cost than cabs yet they get tipped virtually every time just like all the tipping jobs i've had. my conclusion was fairly simple - people tip to not look like asshats. since they can close out a ride in private they don't look like a ****** in person. this is actually why people tip, not for good service but so they don't look like a loser in person in this tipping society of ours.

but i went a little further with this train of thought...i thought what if other industries used apps for tipping, like bartending? the bartender gets his tips with his paycheck and all tipping is anonymous? the bartenders tips would be waaaay less. same goes for waiters cabbies etc...i mean i'd open a beer for someone and get a tip but getting someone to the airport through a blizzard isn't deserving? gimme a break.


----------



## MiamiKid

got a p said:


> i like the cut of your jib man &#128077;
> 
> this sounds like a race to the top, the exact opposite of the race to the bottom uber is trying out.
> 
> in their scenario inevitably people will drive for less. in your scenario people will inevitably make more.
> 
> even if people have bad tipping rating they will still get a ride, just not for below base. people with good tipping rating will get treated as the VIPs that they are, and their tips would be kinda like getting a surge. thus the tip rating could be construed as a surge to an extent. uber could have used a guy like you, who thinks outside the box, early on. tips don't affect their bottom line.
> 
> i've had many tipping jobs in my life, starting with pizza delivery, then waiting tables, then bartending and now cab driving - or rideshare as we call it these days. i've wondered about why we don't get tipped for providing an arguably better service at a much lower cost than cabs yet they get tipped virtually every time just like all the tipping jobs i've had. my conclusion was fairly simple - people tip to not look like asshats. since they can close out a ride in private they don't look like a @@@@@@ in person. this is actually why people tip, not for good service but so they don't look like a loser in person in this tipping society of ours.
> 
> but i went a little further with this train of thought...i thought what if other industries used apps for tipping, like bartending? the bartender gets his tips with his paycheck and all tipping is anonymous? the bartenders tips would be waaaay less. same goes for waiters cabbies etc...i mean i'd open a beer for someone and get a tip but getting someone to the airport through a blizzard isn't deserving? gimme a break.


Tips are included!


----------



## got a p

SHalester said:


> nobody in this thread 'works' for Uber.


fact or opinion?


----------



## Nats121

DriverMark said:


> I don't justify non-tippers. But, Uber created the culture when it first started that there is "no need to tip the driver". And at the time, yea that probably was true.


It was never true.

Limo and sedan drivers have always charged much higher rates than taxis and Uber X, yet their drivers have always been well-tipped.

In the early Uber days taxi fares were cheaper than Uber X in many markets and the taxi drivers were tipped by more than 80% of their pax.

After Uber slashed fares, taxis cost a lot more than Uber X, and taxi drivers continued to be tipped by more than 80% of their pax.

In June 2017, Uber finally introduced in-app tipping, yet to this day, taxi pax continue to be much better tippers than rideshare pax.

For better or worse, the US is a tipping culture, and pax who refuse to tip their drivers can go eff themselves.



123dragon said:


> This doesn't demonstrate causality. Is there any real evidence to your claim or did you just make it up?
> 
> Rates are shit so I don't drive as much anymore but when I did I would actually just leave a little early and do a ride or two on my way to work. Main reason being that it allowed me to write off my work commute on my taxes since I was Ubering. I still do it today just don't take passengers the majority of the time. Obviously this anecdotal like much of your claims.
> 
> You also assume that all full-time people work the same hours. I don't see that as being the cases since most offices have 10:30 - 3:30 as their core hours. There is a wide range of flexibility in the hours people work around that and then place may have people on different shifts.
> 
> Are surges or peak demand even highest during the commute? Highest surges I've gotten are during night rides. Again anecdotal but what data or evidence do you have that shows that morning commute has most rides.


Buddy, this is a rideshare driver website not a court of law. The rules of evidence don't apply here.

If you want to disprove my points such as the one where I stated that most full time workers work day shift, you're welcome to do gather evidence and prove me wrong.


----------



## mch

got a p said:


> fact or opinion?


Its more like his mantra


----------



## SHalester

got a p said:


> fact or opinion?


Fact. Or point to who receives a W2 from Uber. We await.


----------



## mch

SHalester said:


> Fact. Or point to who receives a W2 from Uber. We await.


I messed up. My comment makes no sense. I misread and thought he was quoting "Tips are Included"


----------



## 123dragon

Nats121 said:


> Buddy, this is a rideshare driver website not a court of law. The rules of evidence don't apply here.
> 
> If you want to disprove my points such as the one where I stated that most full time workers work day shift, you're welcome to do gather evidence and prove me wrong.


Just because it's a rideshare forum doesn't justify you making things up. This is a very basic thing, either you have real reference, you did a study and can prove your research, or you made up data. It seems that you made up data. Just because you think it's logical doesn't mean it's true. Reason being do you have a large enough set of information to make a judgement or is what you are determining anecdotal. That is what most people are guilty of and leads to a lot of false statements.

Here's another way to look at the DC market. Uber was able to replace taxi's with it's high rates because it was *reliable.* The problem with transportation in DC pre-uber was that full time taxi drivers couldn't meet the surge demand for morning airport runs and at night at bar closing. Part-timer or people that decided to work more were able to fix the supply and demand problem for transportation which made uber a more reliable service and helped drive people to adoption of using it.

I will link things that support my claims since I don't make things up.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49986191
This doesn't answer who is doing the surge though. I'll look for something later, but that is why the 80% of part time drivers are just as important. A transportation service needs to be reliable at peak times just as much as any other time.


----------



## MiamiKid

Nats121 said:


> It was never true.
> 
> Limo and sedan drivers have always charged much higher rates than taxis and Uber X, yet their drivers have always been well-tipped.
> 
> In the early Uber days taxi fares were cheaper than Uber X in many markets and the taxi drivers were tipped by more than 80% of their pax.
> 
> After Uber slashed fares, taxis cost a lot more than Uber X, and taxi drivers continued to be tipped by more than 80% of their pax.
> 
> In June 2017, Uber finally introduced in-app tipping, yet to this day, taxi pax continue to be much better tippers than rideshare pax.
> 
> For better or worse, the US is a tipping culture, and pax who refuse to tip their drivers can go eff themselves.
> 
> 
> Buddy, this is a rideshare driver website not a court of law. The rules of evidence don't apply here.
> 
> If you want to disprove my points such as the one where I stated that most full time workers work day shift, you're welcome to do gather evidence and prove me wrong.


TIPS ARE INCLUDED! PROOF NOW IN!!!


----------



## SHalester

MiamiKid said:


> TIPS ARE INCLUDED! PROOF NOW IN!!!


To provide balance n contrast tips are optional.


----------



## tc49821

waldowainthrop said:


> I love tips. Free money, pay what you want. I give tips generously.
> 
> However, I am a tipping culture abolitionist. I want employers to pay people properly so that tips aren't viewed as essential for drivers or any other occupation. Tipping became more of an issue on Uber once pay started decreasing. When people are skeptical about tips I largely agree with them, even though the economic status quo demands that the culture continues.


Don't use logic,keep it simple. You don't tip your a cheap scumbag,end of story.


----------



## waldowainthrop

tc49821 said:


> *Don't use logic*,keep it simple. You don't tip your a cheap scumbag,end of story.


No.


----------



## MiamiKid

tc49821 said:


> Don't use logic,keep it simple. You don't tip your a cheap scumbag,end of story.


Tips are included.


----------



## goneubering

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


TK started the non-tipping tradition.


----------



## Fusion_LUser

Tips have always been something extra for a service performed. 

I guess some feel a huge tip is warranted if they consider the idea of maybe thinking about possibly entertaining the thought of showing up for a ride when it suits them and not running amuck with a meat cleaver is more than enough for a tip. I know that's how I feel is more than enough to be tipped.


----------



## ambereagle

I ask for tips... some guy unzips his pants. #UberGalLife


----------



## MiamiKid

ambereagle said:


> I ask for tips... some guy unzips his pants. #UberGalLife


Asking for tips is very "ghetto" and from the "other side of tracks". If ya know what I mean?

MAGA 2020!
⛳&#128755;&#128184;&#127864;&#128526;


----------



## Raccoon

My general feelings about tipping:

The practice shouldn't exist, or it should be uncommon. Workers should straight up be paid a living wage. I'm also a fan of how Europeans handle food service, where there's a *standard* gratuity paid for all orders.

HOWEVER, WHILE TIPPING IS STILL COMMON PRACTICE, YOU MUST TIP. Especially if the employee / driver / etc earns minimum wage or less. If you can't afford the tip, you can't afford the service.

(And if you're okay with someone being paid less than minimum wage to provide you a service, you're contributing to the problem, and you can do better than that.)

Personally, I'm dirt poor, barely getting by. I don't order rides or restaurant food much, as a result. But when I'm eating at a restaurant or getting an Uber, I tip *Every. Single. Time.*


----------



## Dekero

MiamiKid said:


> Tips are included.


And.... Yet again..... The ignorance exudes from you freely



MiamiKid said:


> Asking for tips is very "ghetto" and from the "other side of tracks". If ya know what I mean?
> 
> MAGA 2020!
> ⛳&#128755;&#128184;&#127864;&#128526;


No body knows what the hell you mean.... I've never Begged or asked for tips but I still made over 40% tip to income ratio Tonite....
Because I know how to work a corrupt system in my favor.... You on the other hand will continue to drive for base rates and be happy because.... Well your ignorant...and chose to be....


----------



## waldowainthrop

Raccoon said:


> My general feelings about tipping:
> 
> The practice shouldn't exist, or it should be uncommon. Workers should straight up be paid a living wage. I'm also a fan of how Europeans handle food service, where there's a *standard* gratuity paid for all orders.
> 
> HOWEVER, WHILE TIPPING IS STILL COMMON PRACTICE, YOU MUST TIP. Especially if the employee / driver / etc earns minimum wage or less. If you can't afford the tip, you can't afford the service.
> 
> (And if you're okay with someone being paid less than minimum wage to provide you a service, you're contributing to the problem, and you can do better than that.)
> 
> Personally, I'm dirt poor, barely getting by. I don't order rides or restaurant food much, as a result. But when I'm eating at a restaurant or getting an Uber, I tip *Every. Single. Time.*


Someone shares my exact perspective on this, nice.


----------



## MiamiKid

Raccoon said:


> My general feelings about tipping:
> 
> The practice shouldn't exist, or it should be uncommon. Workers should straight up be paid a living wage. I'm also a fan of how Europeans handle food service, where there's a *standard* gratuity paid for all orders.
> 
> HOWEVER, WHILE TIPPING IS STILL COMMON PRACTICE, YOU MUST TIP. Especially if the employee / driver / etc earns minimum wage or less. If you can't afford the tip, you can't afford the service.
> 
> (And if you're okay with someone being paid less than minimum wage to provide you a service, you're contributing to the problem, and you can do better than that.)
> 
> Personally, I'm dirt poor, barely getting by. I don't order rides or restaurant food much, as a result. But when I'm eating at a restaurant or getting an Uber, I tip *Every. Single. Time.*


Great you're tipping every single time.

Gives me an extra ego boost when I zero tip the entitled "slacker" from the hood! &#128513;


----------



## SHalester

Wonders where the ‘hood’ is n who defines it? Also, wonders what ‘ghetto’ people is. Also, what is ‘you people’?
Also, if u r a driver and don’t tip a driver, will u be struck by lightning? 
just asking.


----------



## waldowainthrop

SHalester said:


> Also, what is 'you people'?


"You people" stands in stark contrast to "people like me". The phrase makes me feel uncomfortable too because it can be fairly benign or often quite sinister.


----------



## MiamiKid

SHalester said:


> Wonders where the 'hood' is n who defines it? Also, wonders what 'ghetto' people is. Also, what is 'you people'?
> Also, if u r a driver and don't tip a driver, will u be struck by lightning?
> just asking.





waldowainthrop said:


> "You people" stands in stark contrast to "people like me". The phrase makes me feel uncomfortable too because it can be fairly benign or often quite sinister.


Am not using the term to be nice. Rather, I'm referring to an ignorant, entitled attitude that most successful folks don't have.

If a liberal wants to term it as racist, then, I'm extremely motivated to let it rip!

OR

They could stop and think about their selfish attitude and change their life. TOTALLY!

To be continued....


----------



## SHalester

MiamiKid said:


> Am not using the term to be nice


ok to say 'DUH'; we know exactly how you are using it.


MiamiKid said:


> If a liberal wants to term it as racist,


if it walks, looks and quacks like a duck......it must be a duck¿


MiamiKid said:


> entitled attitude that most successful folks don't have


wut? aren't those who are exactly entitled? again, who defines 'successful'?

yeah, go MAGA. Go Trump! yeah, yeah, we get it.


----------



## Charlesw62

I don't expect a tip...Most people are jerks anyway so why should I expect them to not be? I don't expect them to feel sorry for me like a restaurant worker. I drive to keep busy.


----------



## UberPhool

The only tips I want from this gig are the 5 stars and those rare trophies. Who give a shyt about real money?


----------



## ThisGuyGotBalls

SHalester said:


> who are the defenders? Tips are optional. We are NOT wait staff, you realize that, yeah? Unlike some I don't count on tips and treat them like xmas morning each time I receive one. The delayed gratification tips are the BEST. Just got one the other day from a 12/23 ride.
> 
> And before your head explodes as a pax I always tip.....in the app.... As I driver I don't expect them, don't count on them, don't budget for them. When I get 'em......NICE! When I don't I'm not crying, moaning, whining or become depressed.
> 
> If I wanted tips all the time, I'd get a job as a restaurant. OH, in a previous life I did that, but wasn't front room staff. No, I was the dishwasher. hahahahaha
> 
> What I really really want is more than 60% of my pax to just RATE the dam ride. puhleeeeze
> 
> and may this be my 51 posts and not happen.....


I got a job at a restaurant and black people don't tip and I'm not racist they really don't tip. Most only tip a few dollars. I'm getting paid 2.75 an hour.


----------



## Angry Uber

I get tips all the time! But, I don't tip! 

Or should I say I don't like to tip!
I tip at places that I frequent, cuz most people are assholes and will prolly spit in your food or do some other evil shit

I'd like to slap the person who started the whole "Tipping" thing

"If he doesn't tip, shit in his soup!" That will learn him!
I mean, its ****ing extortion


----------



## UberPhool

Angry Uber said:


> I get tips all the time! But, I don't tip!
> 
> Or should I say I don't like to tip!
> I tip at places that I frequent, cuz most people are @@@@@@@@ and will prolly spit in your food or do some other evil shit
> 
> I'd like to slap the person who started the whole "Tipping" thing
> 
> "If he doesn't tip, shit in his soup!" That will learn him!
> I mean, its @@@@ing extortion


How does it feel when you received the tips?


----------



## MiamiKid

ThisGuyGotBalls said:


> I got a job at a restaurant and black people don't tip and I'm not racist they really don't tip. Most only tip a few dollars. I'm getting paid 2.75 an hour.


Spot on!
&#128077;


----------



## Angry Uber

UberPhool said:


> How does it feel when you received the tips?


Anytime someone slaps you with cold hard cash, its a good thing

At the same time i'm not going to shit in his/her soup if they don't

Most of the people that tip me, are strippers and prostitutes, it makes them feel like i'm their ***** for the time they are in my car. Tip or no tip I treat everyone the same......get in get out


----------



## ten25

Shouldn't be hard for riders to figure out the driver needs to be tipped when they paid only $7 for the ride and Uber is taking some % of cut of that before the driver has even paid any expenses.

People who don't tip are either cheapskate scum or totally oblivious to what's going on around them.


----------



## Legalizeit0

I will defend non-tippers all day, some people can't afford it and you are not entitled to a tip. No different than the creeps on here who refuse to return items without extra compensation. 

Tips are optional and you should not expect them, period.


----------



## ten25

If they can afford to pay $7.00 then they can afford to tip 20%. If they can't afford to tip 20% then they really can't afford the $7.00 either, and should be walking/riding a bike so they can save up for a car, instead of making their problems your problems.

There are very few pax out there actually deserving sympathy. Over the 1,000~ish rides I've done, can't recall a single min fare trip where someone couldn't have hoofed it. Most of them are just going to the bars or from the grocery store.

Can't count how many times I have got the "Hey bro, we're just going down the street to the bar hope thats ok" line or someone loads up your trunk with $100 of groceries but apparently when it comes to the tip "can't afford it", and there is always at least 1 unnecessary item they could have not purchased and tipped you instead.


----------



## 197438

They are pax that don't tip.



Legalizeit0 said:


> I will defend non-tippers all day, some people can't afford it and you are not entitled to a tip. No different than the creeps on here who refuse to return items without extra compensation.
> 
> Tips are optional and you should not expect them, period.


When a guy in the back is bragging to his date about being an investment banker and takes me to an Airbnb on a desolate mountain road for drop-off with no chance of a ride back toward home, f'ing right I expect a tip.


----------



## Charlesw62

ThisGuyGotBalls said:


> I got a job at a restaurant and black people don't tip and I'm not racist they really don't tip. Most only tip a few dollars. I'm getting paid 2.75 an hour.


There's a reason why black folks don't tip. The ancestors didn't get a tip for all that free labor.



ten25 said:


> If they can afford to pay $7.00 then they can afford to tip 20%. If they can't afford to tip 20% then they really can't afford the $7.00 either, and should be walking/riding a bike so they can save up for a car, instead of making their problems your problems.
> 
> There are very few pax out there actually deserving sympathy. Over the 1,000~ish rides I've done, can't recall a single min fare trip where someone couldn't have hoofed it. Most of them are just going to the bars or from the grocery store.
> 
> Can't count how many times I have got the "Hey bro, we're just going down the street to the bar hope thats ok" line or someone loads up your trunk with $100 of groceries but apparently when it comes to the tip "can't afford it", and there is always at least 1 unnecessary item they could have not purchased and tipped you instead.


Again, tipping is not mandatory. If you're in this for a tip then you'll be sorely disappointed. If I'm going to tip someone, they need to go "above and beyond". All you're doing is driving from point A to point B. All you're doing is talking an order. Nothing special. Now, if you're taking my bags to the car or opening and closing the door, then I'll tip. If not, shut up and drive.


----------



## Legalizeit0

ten25 said:


> there is always at least 1 unnecessary item they could have not purchased and tipped you instead.


Wow.

can you say, "entitled snowflake?"


----------



## ten25

Legalizeit0 said:


> Wow.
> 
> can you say, "entitled snowflake?"


I work a full time job plus 40 hrs on Uber. I'm not an entitled snowflake. I just prefer to be compensated fairly for the work I've done. If you're okay with people shafting you that's your problem.


----------



## Legalizeit0

ten25 said:


> I work a full time job plus 40 hrs on Uber. I'm not an entitled snowflake. I just prefer to be compensated fairly for the work I've done. If you're okay with people shafting you that's your problem.


How are they shafting you? You agreed to the compensation when you signed up. at your real job, has there been a sales increase? Did you go to your boss and demand more money?

The argument that you are getting shafted is ridiculous. When you sign up for any job, you agree to the compensation they are offering. If you don't like what they are offering, go somewhere else. But stop thinking that you are entitled to more than what you originally agreed to.


----------



## ten25

It's like when you try and rent an apartment... all the apartment complexes have tons of terms in their agreement that I don't agree with, such as forcing you to sign a lease for X months, having to pay X amount to break the lease, but I have to sign it anyway if I want to live somewhere.

I do gig jobs because they're flexible... there are certain parts in the terms of service and jobs I receive which I don't agree with... but if I want to work a flexible job, as the terms of service currently are, I'm going to get the shaft sometimes no matter which one I pick.


----------



## SHalester

ten25 said:


> I'm not an entitled snowflake


if u began RS thinking it was a path to tips, then you made an epic mistake. Working front of house of a restaurant might have better aim. If drivers get > 30% tips they are doing great.


----------



## ten25

SHalester said:


> if u began RS thinking it was a path to tips, then you made an epic mistake. Working front of house of a restaurant might have better aim. If drivers get > 30% tips they are doing great.


It's not about the tips, it's about being compensated fairly. I wouldn't work a second job (unless it was in the same field as my day job...) that isn't flexible.

As a passenger, it is not hard to figure out when:

You only paid $6.50 for your ride
The driver just spent 20 mins of their time accommodating you.
Uber is taking a cut of the fare.
The driver has significant expenses.
The app has an option to tip.
... that you should tip at least the minimum option in the app. Otherwise your driver is taking you for free. These pax are literally wasting your time. You are not being compensated in these situations, you are being taken advantage of and disrespected.

The only reason I put up with it is the flexibility and that overall I'm making money because of longer rides and people who do tip. Just because I'm making $ overall doesn't excuse someone taking advantage of me on these short rides.


----------



## SHalester

Is


ten25 said:


> it's about being compensated fairly


is it ok if I don't buy that? It is not the pax responsibility to make you happy pay wise. You agreed to U/L pay terms, you knew in advance. Why should a paying customer assist you? I'm all for tipping. As a pax I always tip; not 20% like I'd do with a wait stuff who do depend on tips since tips is factored in to their pay. 
For food delivery I also tip; 20%, but subtract service and delivery fee from the calculation. 
You can, however, blame Uber for the no tipping as that was an advertising feature when Uber was 'hatched'.

Nope, RS is not a gig where one would expect 100% tipping. As noted if you get 30% of your pax to tip you are ahead of the curve. I treat tips like xmas morning, but they come more often then once a year. That way, happy when I get them, and no emotion spent if I don't. point a to point b; not like there are a lot of variables there to get tipped on.


----------



## ten25

You're welcome to believe what you like! I can't stop you.

Your tipping practices seem similar to mine. Agreeing to a TOS is meaningless - just because I press agree doesn't mean I agree with everything in it. I definitely don't. If I want to work a flexible job, I'm damned if I don't press agree and damned if I do. In the case of Uber I only press agree because I'm betting *overall *it will work out.

One question I always ask when it comes to services where tipping is optional ... would the person providing service to me continue to provide said service if all customers requested the same service and never tipped? If the answer is no then you need to tip (unless something goes horribly wrong...)

Pax are taking up the time of someone who expects to be compensated for their work (that is the only reason people work after all), and choosing to not compensate that person for their work. The driver is only providing service to you because they "have to" or they could end up out of a job that is working out for them *overall*. Having someone do work for you and not compensating them is disrespectful to put it nicely :smiles:

That is a textbook example of taking advantage of someone.


----------



## Charlesw62

ten25 said:


> I work a full time job plus 40 hrs on Uber. I'm not an entitled snowflake. I just prefer to be compensated fairly for the work I've done. If you're okay with people shafting you that's your problem.


Then that is up to your employer. You're in the wrong business if you think a rider is obligated to tip you.



ten25 said:


> It's not about the tips, it's about being compensated fairly. I wouldn't work a second job (unless it was in the same field as my day job...) that isn't flexible.
> 
> As a passenger, it is not hard to figure out when:
> 
> You only paid $6.50 for your ride
> The driver just spent 20 mins of their time accommodating you.
> Uber is taking a cut of the fare.
> The driver has significant expenses.
> The app has an option to tip.
> ... that you should tip at least the minimum option in the app. Otherwise your driver is taking you for free. These pax are literally wasting your time. You are not being compensated in these situations, you are being taken advantage of and disrespected.
> 
> The only reason I put up with it is the flexibility and that overall I'm making money because of longer rides and people who do tip. Just because I'm making $ overall doesn't excuse someone taking advantage of me on these short rides.


As a passenger, I don't want to know what you are being paid, nor do I care. I care that you arrive on time and get me to my destination in one piece.



ten25 said:


> You're welcome to believe what you like! I can't stop you.
> 
> Your tipping practices seem similar to mine. Agreeing to a TOS is meaningless - just because I press agree doesn't mean I agree with everything in it. I definitely don't. If I want to work a flexible job, I'm damned if I don't press agree and damned if I do. In the case of Uber I only press agree because I'm betting *overall *it will work out.
> 
> One question I always ask when it comes to services where tipping is optional ... would the person providing service to me continue to provide said service if all customers requested the same service and never tipped? If the answer is no then you need to tip (unless something goes horribly wrong...)
> 
> Pax are taking up the time of someone who expects to be compensated for their work (that is the only reason people work after all), and choosing to not compensate that person for their work. The driver is only providing service to you because they "have to" or they could end up out of a job that is working out for them *overall*. Having someone do work for you and not compensating them is disrespectful to put it nicely :smiles:
> 
> That is a textbook example of taking advantage of someone.


You're a textbook example of an entitled snowflake: 
1 Takes a job/gig knowing up front the pay sucks
2 Throws hissy-fit if not tipped what they think they're worth
3 Goes on social media to complain
4 Realizes social media doesn't give a damn
5 Starts doing meth and drops out of society because life is not fair.


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## ten25

Charlesw62 said:


> *As a passenger, I don't want to know what you are being paid, nor do I care.*


Yes, that is precisely the problem. You're admitting you don't have respect for someone's time.



Charlesw62 said:


> *I care that you arrive on time and get me to my destination in one piece.*


Maybe you should care how much someone is being paid then, since they need to be paid fairly in order to afford the cost to fix their car and transport you safely.



Charlesw62 said:


> You're a textbook example of an entitled snowflake:
> 1 Takes a job/gig knowing up front the pay sucks Takes a job expecting to be compensated for the work I'm doing
> 2 Throws hissy-fit if not tipped what they think they're worth Points out a lot of trips you're not compensated at all
> 3 Goes on social media to complain Calls out cheapskates for being cheapskates
> 4 Realizes social media doesn't give a damn Enjoys arguing with people who don't want to admit they're being cheap or that others are cheapskates
> 5 Starts doing meth and drops out of society because life is not fair. Drug free


Fixed that for you


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## Charlesw62

ten25 said:


> Yes, that is precisely the problem. You're admitting you don't have respect for someone's time.
> 
> Maybe you should care how much someone is being paid then, since they need to be paid fairly in order to afford the cost to fix their car and transport you safely.
> 
> Fixed that for you


Then don't you think the employer should be your source of your frustration? Again, I don't care what someone gets paid. Not my business. Just like I don't tell others what I make. Not their business. Do you tip the bus driver? If you fly, do you tip the pilots? If you go to the hospital for a manual rectal clear, do you tip the nurses? Or do you tip the one who has his hand up your butt? Call it what you want, but again, my contract for service is NOT with you, but the company which hires you, therefore, I pay the company. How they compensate you is not my concern. 
If I cared what everyone got paid, then I couldn't tend to my own business. Snowflakes get neurotic at trivial things. I drive (drove) too and I knew full well what I was getting into. I do NOT expect tips. Do I get them? Yes, lots. Maybe if I had a shitty attitude like yours, I probably wouldn't get tips either. My car was/is "hospital clean". I do my own maintenance. I don't go broke providing food and drink. I may supply water I bought a Costco only if I have leftover.



ten25 said:


> It's like when you try and rent an apartment... all the apartment complexes have tons of terms in their agreement that I don't agree with, such as forcing you to sign a lease for X months, having to pay X amount to break the lease, but I have to sign it anyway if I want to live somewhere.
> 
> I do gig jobs because they're flexible... there are certain parts in the terms of service and jobs I receive which I don't agree with... but if I want to work a flexible job, as the terms of service currently are, I'm going to get the shaft sometimes no matter which one I pick.


Do you tip the leasing agent? After all they are taking their time to show you a unit.


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## ten25

Charlesw62 said:


> Then don't you think the employer should be your source of your frustration? Again, I don't care what someone gets paid. Not my business. Just like I don't tell others what I make. Not their business. Do you tip the bus driver? If you fly, do you tip the pilots? If you go to the hospital for a manual rectal clear, do you tip the nurses? Or do you tip the one who has his hand up your butt? Call it what you want, but again, my contract for service is NOT with you, but the company which hires you, therefore, I pay the company. How they compensate you is not my concern.
> If I cared what everyone got paid, then I couldn't tend to my own business. Snowflakes get neurotic at trivial things. I drive (drove) too and I knew full well what I was getting into. I do NOT expect tips. Do I get them? Yes, lots. Maybe if I had a shitty attitude like yours, I probably wouldn't get tips either. My car was/is "hospital clean". I do my own maintenance. I don't go broke providing food and drink. I may supply water I bought a Costco only if I have leftover.


Of course Uber/Lyft is my main source of frustration, they could easily set a minimum fare where drivers are fairly compensated. I wouldn't tip someone in an industry where it's not customary to tip... in almost all cases I can safely assume they're being compensated already. I would actually tip a bus or shuttle driver if it appears to be customary and have done so in a few unique situations (once outside the US... and once on a holiday tour shuttle) . In the US it's been customary for years to tip taxi drivers, servers, bartenders, delivery drivers, hair stylists etc... people performing professions which are widely known to rely on tips to be compensated fairly.

Used to work for a taxi company and received tips at least 80% of the time... the same customers that once used taxis are now taking Uber and Lyft. By now passengers know ride share drivers expect tips, it asks you right in the app and there have been many mainstream news articles about it. Not to mention the custom of tipping taxi drivers that has existed for years and years. The app just makes it mentally easier for pax to skip tipping since the pax probably won't see you again and know you won't be able to see if they tipped until later, vs a taxi you know right away when someone doesn't tip.

My rate of tips received is about 40% at least on Lyft. Uber riders do tip less often here and I always have a good attitude on rides regardless of what I'm saying on here about sh*tty pax. There are subsets of customers who almost never tip and those are the people I'm calling cheap.

Nothing excuses wasting another person's time by not compensating them for the services provided, and it's clear when you get the bill and it's only $6.50 for 20 minutes of someone's time before considering the employers cut and the driver's expenses, that you're wasting that person's time if you don't tip.

Whether you care what someone is getting paid or not doesn't change the fact you're wasting their time and are a cheapskate for not tipping. I've never seen another profession where people think someone not receiving ANY compensation for doing work is okay. Even a server received some compensation if you don't tip, because they have a tiny hourly pay and no expenses. By comparison a driver is lucky to break even on one of these minimum trips when there is no tip due to gas/maintenance/road hazards. Unreal.


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## Charlesw62

ten25 said:


> Of course Uber/Lyft is my main source of frustration, they could easily set a minimum fare where drivers are fairly compensated. I wouldn't tip someone in an industry where it's not customary to tip... in almost all cases I can safely assume they're being compensated already. I would actually tip a bus or shuttle driver if it appears to be customary and have done so in a few unique situations (once outside the US... and once on a holiday tour shuttle) . In the US it's been customary for years to tip taxi drivers, servers, bartenders, delivery drivers, hair stylists etc... people performing professions which are widely known to rely on tips to be compensated fairly.
> 
> Used to work for a taxi company and received tips at least 80% of the time... the same customers that once used taxis are now taking Uber and Lyft. By now passengers know ride share drivers expect tips, it asks you right in the app and there have been many mainstream news articles about it. Not to mention the custom of tipping taxi drivers that has existed for years and years. The app just makes it mentally easier for pax to skip tipping since the pax probably won't see you again and know you won't be able to see if they tipped until later, vs a taxi you know right away when someone doesn't tip.
> 
> My rate of tips received is about 40% at least on Lyft. Uber riders do tip less often here and I always have a good attitude on rides regardless of what I'm saying on here about sh*tty pax. There are subsets of customers who almost never tip and those are the people I'm calling cheap.
> 
> Nothing excuses wasting another person's time by not compensating them for the services provided, and it's clear when you get the bill and it's only $6.50 for 20 minutes of someone's time before considering the employers cut and the driver's expenses, that you're wasting that person's time if you don't tip.
> 
> Whether you care what someone is getting paid or not doesn't change the fact you're wasting their time and are a cheapskate for not tipping. I've never seen another profession where people think someone not receiving ANY compensation for doing work is okay. Even a server received some compensation if you don't tip, because they have a tiny hourly pay and no expenses. By comparison a driver is lucky to break even on one of these minimum trips when there is no tip due to gas/maintenance/road hazards. Unreal.


Then complain to UBER. Complaining to us does no good, we CAN'T help you.
Again, tipping is NOT required so your statement about drivers expecting tips is foolish at best. 
And yet again, you state "Nothing excuses wasting another person's time by not compensating them for the services provided". Our contract is NOT with you, It is with the RS company. It is not our job to compensate you.
If your time is being wasted, WTF are you driving for?
I don't care about "wasting their time", they chose to do it. It's their JOB. On the rare instances I have taken an UBER, I threw them a little something, even though the driver wasn't really very good or didn't speak English effectively. I don't talk to drivers anyway. I want them paying attention to where they are going.
You ARE receiving compensation...it may not be to your liking but it is what it is. 
I am going to bet you are a Gen X'er, or worse, a millennial. You have an over inflated sense of entitlement. You are entitled to oxygen and even then, it is being wasted. 
Tip or don't tip, IDGAF. I drive because I like it...it brings back my old patrol car days. 
If passengers are "sh*tty", again, why bother? 
You clearly are not fit to be in a public facing position. Go find something else to do.


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## ten25

Charlesw62 said:


> You ARE receiving compensation...it may not be to your liking but it is what it is.


Getting $2.84 or $3.00 is not compensation when your expenses are equal to or greater than that amount. Yes - Uber/Lyft setting the rates low is the main cause of the problem. However as Uber & Lyft love to say, they are "just a technology company". They only provide customer service in situations the driver is unable to (such as when a rider loses something in your car...)

All they did was create an app that connects drivers and riders and a system to facilitate the rider paying the driver. The rider is really the one hiring me... not Uber or Lyft. Regardless of any contracts / formalities that either party may have agreed to... That's why it's called "driving for hire". Someone hires you to pick them up and it's their job to compensate you.

Nobody would go to a job where they aren't getting paid unless their intention was to volunteer - or if they were in a situation where they're being coerced such as with Uber/Lyft... where you would face deactivation if you started only taking trips you would be reasonably compensated for.

I already explained that overall Uber/Lyft works out if you do it right, but I'm only talking about the trips where it doesn't work out. If it wasn't for the tips / long trips I would definitely quit right away.


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## Charlesw62

ten25 said:


> Getting $2.84 or $3.00 is not compensation when your expenses are equal to or greater than that amount. Yes - Uber/Lyft setting the rates low is the main cause of the problem. However as Uber & Lyft love to say, they are "just a technology company". They only provide customer service in situations the driver is unable to (such as when a rider loses something in your car...)
> 
> All they did was create an app that connects drivers and riders and a system to facilitate the rider paying the driver. The rider is really the one hiring me... not Uber or Lyft. Regardless of any contracts / formalities that either party may have agreed to... That's why it's called "driving for hire". Someone hires you to pick them up and it's their job to compensate you.
> 
> Nobody would go to a job where they aren't getting paid unless their intention was to volunteer - or if they were in a situation where they're being coerced such as with Uber/Lyft... where you would face deactivation if you started only taking trips you would be reasonably compensated for.
> 
> I already explained that overall Uber/Lyft works out if you do it right, but I'm only talking about the trips where it doesn't work out. If it wasn't for the tips / long trips I would definitely quit right away.


Whine, whine, whine....If that is the case, then if the rider has a complaint, who does he/she reach out to? You or Uber/Lyft? Not you. You are only the medium used to get that rider from point A to point B. Nothing more, nothing less.
Lots of people go to jobs that suck or the pay sucks. They do it because they have to.

I only started driving back in December, but I learned quickly how to work smart. ONLY worked Thursday - Saturday from 7pm-2am. Each of those nights, I grossed 205-230 per seven hour shift, not including tips. Add another 50-60 bucks for tips each day. Remember, I never count on tips. The only maintenance thus far has been two oil changes at 30 bucks for supplies and thirty minutes of my time. And of course, there is gas and there will eventually be tires. If I need something other than that, I am capable of making quality repairs at a fraction of the cost of a repair shop. (I have six cars/suv's and 2 motorcycles, I'd be a fool if I didn't know how to fix sh*t).

I don't spend my time riding around. I go where the action is and PARK. 3-5 minutes later, I get a ride. There are of course "dead miles". I take all trips, short and long, nice areas and the hood ( I worry NOT about "issues") and it works out for me. The main vehicle I use is paid for and reliable. My secondary vehicle is a luxury vehicle that is only used for "regulars". Yes, I had regulars in a short time. If I get a tip, whoo-hoo. If I don't, whatever.

Sounds like you need to :
1: Get a better vehicle
2: Learn how to work on said better vehicle
3: Learn to work smarter, not harder.


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## Giantsfan1503

HonkyTonk said:


> Several "regular" posters on this forum defend non-tippers. Oh, they come up with every excuse in the book. ("They're broke. They're being driven one mile through heavy traffic to their job at Wal-Mart." Blah blah.)
> 
> I'd like for them to explain their justifications in this thread, NO HATING, just explaining.


When it's all said and done its a choice. It's their right to tip or not for whatever reason. I'll leave you with this quote. "You cannot control the behavior of others, but you can always choose how you respond to it."


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## ten25

I do most of the same practices you listed and have done well overall at this just the same as you. This isn't a pissing contest on who is a better Uber driver or who has the better car.

There are unforeseen expenses doing this... Like having to replace tires plus a bent steering rack due to potholes, running over a nail, or riders doing damage to your car and Uber refusing to compensate you.

You're going to have major repairs if you drive long enough that are costly even if you DIY and min trips are either not enough or barely enough compensation to break even on those repairs + gas.

If you hire an independent contractor to fix something in your house they expect to be compensated. They don't do freebies just because other customers paid enough to pay your way.

It should be the same when a pax hires you to drive them, but you'd get deactivated if you handled business that way.


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## Charlesw62

ten25 said:


> I do most of the same practices you listed and have done well overall at this just the same as you. This isn't a pissing contest on who is a better Uber driver or who has the better car.
> 
> There are unforeseen expenses doing this... Like having to replace tires plus a bent steering rack due to potholes, running over a nail, or riders doing damage to your car and Uber refusing to compensate you.
> 
> You're going to have major repairs if you drive long enough that are costly even if you DIY and min trips are either not enough or barely enough compensation to break even on those repairs + gas.
> 
> If you hire an independent contractor to fix something in your house they expect to be compensated. They don't do freebies just because other customers paid enough to pay your way.
> 
> It should be the same when a pax hires you to drive them, but you'd get deactivated if you handled business that way.


No pissing contest, but I knew what to expect when I went in to this and I chose the vehicle I would use for this. There should be no unforeseen expenses. You are going to wear tires, suspension parts will break or need to be replaced. The more you drive, the more you increase the chances of something breaking. Period.
Riders damage your car? Document it and file for a cleaning fee. 
You are getting paid, its just not what you thought it would be. If you were in a market that was more affluent, you'd probably do better. But then, you would have a different set of problems in addition the ones you already have. In my market it is possible for me to get back to back small trips. They do add up and since there are only a few miles in between, I don't rack up the miles. 
I do repairs in my garage. I can handle an engine replacement if necessary. I order my tires and install them and balance them myself. 
It's the same way with riders, they contract through Uber/Lyft for you to pick them up and drive them around.


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## tc49821

People work shitty jobs until they find something better. They get taken advantage of and are over worked for what they pay. The customer should give them a dollar.


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## SHalester

ten25 said:


> That is a textbook example of taking advantage of someone.


afraid I don't agree. The pax is already paying and as noted Uber was born with the 'you don't need to tip like you do with a cab'. 
From my point of view it is Point A to Point B with zero personal service involved most trips. AS a pax I tip, but i understand when a pax doesn't. 
Front of house restaurant or bust.


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