# Primetime SCAM EVIDENCE



## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

Here is now proof that Lyft primetime IS in-fact a scam. So I tired requesting a ride and saw 75% added, Within 1-2 seconds switched to the driver app and it NEVER SHOWED a heatmap of primetime rates! Take a look at these screenshots. Is it time to send Lyft a piece of our mind; for misrepresentation of when a primetime is actually happening? Is this why they don't show us primetime? CLIENTS ARE BEING CHARGED A PRIME RATE AND LYFT DOESN'T ACTUALLY SHOW US THE TRUTH! Proof below. Shouldn't there be at least 25% or even 50% prime map before the 75%? THIS IS A SCAM! After signing back off to passenger app, THE PRIMETIME RATE WAS STILL BEING APPLIED!


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

melxjr said:


> Here is now proof that Lyft primetime IS in-fact a scam. So I tired requesting a ride and saw 75% added, Within 1-2 seconds switched to the driver app and it NEVER SHOWED a heatmap of primetime rates! Take a look at these screenshots. Is it time to send Lyft a piece of our mind; for misrepresentation of when a primetime is actually happening? Is this why they don't show us primetime? CLIENTS ARE BEING CHARGED A PRIME RATE AND LYFT DOESN'T ACTUALLY SHOW US THE TRUTH! Proof below. Shouldn't there be at least 25% or even 50% prime map before the 75%? THIS IS A SCAM! After signing back off to passenger app, THE PRIMETIME RATE WAS STILL BEING APPLIED!


I tested this theory several times with Lyft, and I also took the run and it was no PT. I look at pax app, and it said 50%, 75%, 100%, and I still got paid for a regular fare. I did this for hours one night.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

KekeLo said:


> I tested this theory several times with Lyft, and I also took the run and it was no PT. I look at pax app, and it said 50%, 75%, 100%, and I still got paid for a regular fare. I did this for hours one night.


We need to send E-mails to lyft notating that we KNOW they're scamming us and get an attorney involved.


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

You need a team. One driver, one rider, so that you can prove the rider paid a higher fare than you were paid. Maybe book your own ride for research purposes and drive yourself somewhere. That way you have iron clad proof. I have read about surge/PT being manipulated algorithmically right down to the rider, and the driver, in articles, not just in forum conspiracy theories.
One, it's fraud, two it's theft of services and three it would be a pretty easy case and a lot of bad press.
Done being what we call a sea lawyer, back in my navy days. Lol. We have a LOT of them here. Ha ha. But you need your solid proof and it takes the information from the exact same trip from both sides of the ap.
And I see this a lot on Uber right now. My pax ap will say surge, but my driver one does. To. I have never been brave enough to order myself for a ride, and see what happens. Logically I am closest to my own pin, but would be super interesting to see if I got another driver for some very weird reason.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

JaxUbermom said:


> You need a team. One driver, one rider, so that you can prove the rider paid a higher fare than you were paid. Maybe book your own ride for research purposes and drive yourself somewhere. That way you have iron clad proof. I have read about surge/PT being manipulated algorithmically right down to the rider, and the driver, in articles, not just in forum conspiracy theories.
> One, it's fraud, two it's theft of services and three it would be a pretty easy case and a lot of bad press.
> Done being what we call a sea lawyer, back in my navy days. Lol. We have a LOT of them here. Ha ha. But you need your solid proof and it takes the information from the exact same trip from both sides of the ap.
> And I see this a lot on Uber right now. My pax ap will say surge, but my driver one does. To. I have never been brave enough to order myself for a ride, and see what happens. Logically I am closest to my own pin, but would be super interesting to see if I got another driver for some very weird reason.


The problem is, They show us primetime with a heatmap yes? I see no heatmap, thats PROOF


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

What makes matter worse with Lyft, cuz I did this research on NYE, and the whole city was pink


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

KekeLo said:


> What makes matter worse with Lyft, cuz I did this research on NYE, and the whole city was pink


Yup they claim it's an old request, BS. Hardly think someone on NYE waited 3 hours for their Lyft driver to accept and show up. It was all pink 3 hours before I started working. This was an old request? HUH?


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

I NEVER see the heat map. Just a bar at the top of map that says, "Prime Time xx% More". Every now and then one of my ride fares shows up in the color GREEN (which denotes a Prime Time ride) on the Daily Pay Summary...but not often.

Over the past 2 weeks, I've been occasionally pressing the "Drop Off/Rating" button before the passenger leaves the car. I tell them what the fare was and ask if their device shows the same. In the 3 or 4 times I've done this, both my app and their app fare matches exactly. I would advise all drivers to do this from time-to-time. If Lyft is charging the passenger more than what your phone says, they'll face serious legal troubles from PASSENGERS and DRIVERS. Personally, I don't think Lyft Execs are that dumb... but you never know. Let's find out. Run the Driver/Passenger fare comparison test a few times, and post results to this thread.


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## Diyor Khamrakulov (Apr 25, 2015)

KekeLo said:


> What makes matter worse with Lyft, cuz I did this research on NYE, and the whole city was pink


I feel you. I opened a thread about Lyft p/t problems during NYE too.

I drive in SF, between 11:00pm and 3:00am 75% of the city was solid dark pink. I picked up people from a busy club area that was pink for miles in every direction. I got 0% p/t.

There was no way those passangers got a regular priced Lyft with no P/T 2:00am NYE.

I ended up in Berkley, wasted so much time getting back to the city. Missed the celebration with my family and made regular priced fares on NYE. I drive for uber during pick hours now.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

AllenChicago said:


> I NEVER see the heat map. Just a bar at the top of map that says, "Prime Time xx% More". Every now and then one of my ride fares shows up in the color GREEN (which denotes a Prime Time ride) on the Daily Pay Summary...but not often.
> 
> Over the past 2 weeks, I've been occasionally pressing the "Drop Off/Rating" button before the passenger leaves the car. I tell them what the fare was and ask if their device shows the same. In the 3 or 4 times I've done this, both my app and their app fare matches exactly. I would advise all drivers to do this from time-to-time. If Lyft is charging the passenger more than what your phone says, they'll face serious legal troubles from PASSENGERS and DRIVERS. Personally, I don't think Lyft Execs are that dumb... but you never know. Let's find out. Run the Driver/Passenger fare comparison test a few times, and post results to this thread.


This directly is very hard to prove, due to the audacity of asking a pax what their statement says, they know and abuse this. Let's gather more proof, but as it stands, they misrepresent what the heatmap actually means and how it actually represents what rates are currently being charged. This alone is a legal suite.


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## KekeLo (Aug 26, 2015)

AllenChicago said:


> I NEVER see the heat map. Just a bar at the top of map that says, "Prime Time xx% More". Every now and then one of my ride fares shows up in the color GREEN (which denotes a Prime Time ride) on the Daily Pay Summary...but not often.
> 
> Over the past 2 weeks, I've been occasionally pressing the "Drop Off/Rating" button before the passenger leaves the car. I tell them what the fare was and ask if their device shows the same. In the 3 or 4 times I've done this, both my app and their app fare matches exactly. I would advise all drivers to do this from time-to-time. If Lyft is charging the passenger more than what your phone says, they'll face serious legal troubles from PASSENGERS and DRIVERS. Personally, I don't think Lyft Execs are that dumb... but you never know. Let's find out. Run the Driver/Passenger fare comparison test a few times, and post results to this thread.


I ran it over and over on NYE. My area was pink. On pax app, it said, 50, 75, 100% PT. I got no primetime.


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## Diyor Khamrakulov (Apr 25, 2015)

AllenChicago said:


> I NEVER see the heat map. Just a bar at the top of map that says, "Prime Time xx% More". Every now and then one of my ride fares shows up in the color GREEN (which denotes a Prime Time ride) on the Daily Pay Summary...but not often.
> 
> Over the past 2 weeks, I've been occasionally pressing the "Drop Off/Rating" button before the passenger leaves the car. I tell them what the fare was and ask if their device shows the same. In the 3 or 4 times I've done this, both my app and their app fare matches exactly. I would advise all drivers to do this from time-to-time. If Lyft is charging the passenger more than what your phone says, they'll face serious legal troubles from PASSENGERS and DRIVERS. Personally, I don't think Lyft Execs are that dumb... but you never know. Let's find out. Run the Driver/Passenger fare comparison test a few times, and post results to this thread.


I think that the problem here is NOT that they are trying to charge the passengers more and pay the driver is less. I think in that competition field with UBER, Lyft will always try to charge passengers less. Even if it's a prime time, it makes more sense for them to keep the payments low for the passenger. Meaning showing the primetime area on the map for the driver first, and then claiming that there was no primetime later.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

melxjr said:


> This directly is very hard to prove, due to the audacity of asking a pax what their statement says, they know and abuse this. Let's gather more proof, but as it stands, they misrepresent what the heatmap actually means and how it actually represents what rates are currently being charged. This alone is a legal suite.


Melxjr, passengers like the fact that you're using a quality control measure. I simply say, "My phone says your ride was $9.72...does yours say that same Jim?" It's a very easy way to verify if the system was or was not accurate.


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

I'll bite because I thought this very thing... so I got my tablet, and two smart phones. think of it as 1 driver and two riders.

I noticed when you barely opened the rider app it would sometimes show a PT rate of 25% to 100%. at the same time the driver app wouldn't show any pink around but there was a PT somewhere.

In that moment I thought I had Lyft and request a pick up but when I did the PT went away on the rider app. and I request a ride with no PT (cancel). keep in mind the rider app has been on maybe all of 10 to 15 seconds.

PT happens fast... very fast! I think what ends up happening is the GPS on the phone or app is trying to pick up your location and it just happens to be that there is a PT going on so rather then the app showing a flat rate it automatically puts up the highest PT that's going on. Once it picks up your location (few seconds) it will adjust accordingly.

this is what I've observed over the last couple days.


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

melxjr said:


> The problem is, They show us primetime with a heatmap yes? I see no heatmap, thats PROOF


Like Uber, they say driver maps are slower because it is request dependent. It's why I started turning on the pax ap and surfing around my map. I found pax surges where none EVER showed on the driver map.

For those with IOS there is an ap that actually let's you put in your sweet spots and it tracks the surge via the pax ap... Not the driver map. I looked at it yesterday, but didn't find an android equivalent. But for all you ap builders out there, that one would be the key. Use the pax ap not our lame ass fake driver aps.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

Diyor Khamrakulov said:


> I think that the problem here is NOT that they are trying to charge the passengers more and pay the driver is less. I think in that competition field with UBER, Lyft will always try to charge passengers less. Even if it's a prime time, it makes more sense for them to keep the payments low for the passenger. Meaning showing the primetime area on the map for the driver first, and then claiming that there was no primetime later.


Why would Lyft show a Prime-Time that doesn't exist, on our phones? I get more rides when the Prime-Time bar isn't there, and am glad when it goes away, LOL.


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

AllenChicago said:


> Melxjr, passengers like the fact that you're using a quality control measure. I simply say, "My phone says your ride was $9.72...does yours say that same Jim?" It's a very easy way to verify if the system was or was not accurate.


You got people skills!!!

Very nice approach!


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

when I work Lyft or Uber I have my phone with the driver app going and my tablet with the pax app going. I able to see what surge is like on Uber and to the second what PT is. when I get a request I will move the pax pin to that location to see what the rate is at that moment and decide to take it or not.


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## Diyor Khamrakulov (Apr 25, 2015)

AllenChicago said:


> Why would Lyft show a Prime-Time that doesn't exist, on our phones? I get more rides when the Prime-Time bar isn't there, and am glad when it goes away, LOL.


Where I work, in San Francisco. I would wake up in the morning and see there is 150% prime time at 7:00am, so I'm out of the door in 10 minutes. I pickup people going to work and get 0-25% primetime.

If Lyft app would show 25% primetime from the beginning, I would be in my house sleeping. I can get that rate any time of the day. No need to wake up 6:00am.


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

AllenChicago said:


> Why would Lyft show a Prime-Time that doesn't exist, on our phones? I get more rides when the Prime-Time bar isn't there, and am glad when it goes away, LOL.


I think you answered your own question in a way. Uber uses surge map to herd drivers into with volume areas and thereby cancel surge, benefitting the passenger. They (TNCs) don't really lose because they get their pound of flesh from us no matter what. 
So a fake PT showing to a driver or "delayed" one serves the same purpose. It moves drivers to pick up where requests just took an asset away on a ride.


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## Diyor Khamrakulov (Apr 25, 2015)

Ju


AllenChicago said:


> Melxjr, passengers like the fact that you're using a quality control measure. I simply say, "My phone says your ride was $9.72...does yours say that same Jim?" It's a very easy way to verify if the system was or was not accurate.


Just keep in mind that lyft adds $1.55 to the passenger for insurance


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

sidewazzz said:


> I'll bite because I thought this very thing... so I got my tablet, and two smart phones. think of it as 1 driver and two riders.
> 
> I noticed when you barely opened the rider app it would sometimes show a PT rate of 25% to 100%. at the same time the driver app wouldn't show any pink around but there was a PT somewhere.
> 
> ...


I can understand this perspective of how Lyft PT will calculate, but they tell us its based off demand, Opening an app isn't "Demand"


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

AllenChicago said:


> Melxjr, passengers like the fact that you're using a quality control measure. I simply say, "My phone says your ride was $9.72...does yours say that same Jim?" It's a very easy way to verify if the system was or was not accurate.


Ill use this approach, savvy.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

*DEFINITION* of '*Demand*' An economic principle that describes a consumer's desire and willingness to pay a price for a specific good or service.

This doesn't fall under opening an app, It isn't confirmed "DEMAND" just yet.

Holding all other factors constant, the price of a good or service increases as its *demand* increases and vice versa.


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## macchiato (Sep 29, 2015)

If we can prove this I'm sure we can get some sort of lawsuit going. This is the only contract "job" that I know of where we the contractors don't know what price we are agreeing to before accepting the job.


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## Diyor Khamrakulov (Apr 25, 2015)

melxjr said:


> I can understand this perspective of how Lyft PT will calculate, but they tell us its based off demand, Opening an app isn't "Demand"


So they want me to believe that if I get 10-20 phones, and download a Lyft app on all of them and have them on throughout the day, I would have 25-50% primetime around my car at all times?


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

macchiato said:


> If we can prove this I'm sure we can get some sort of lawsuit going. This is the only contract "job" that I know of where we the contractors don't know what price we are agreeing to before accepting the job.


Therefore is a reason we don't see it.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

Diyor Khamrakulov said:


> So they want me to believe that if I get 10-20 phones, and download a lift app on all of them and have them on throughout the day, I would have 25-50% primetime around my car at all times?


Ask sidewazzz I'm simply endorsing that they could be using this as a calculation, plus; can you realistically afford that? Just saying.


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## Diyor Khamrakulov (Apr 25, 2015)

melxjr said:


> Ask sidewazzz I'm simply endorsing that they could be using this as a calculation, plus; can you realistically afford that? Just saying.


If i get 25% primetime on every ride I could. I do 450 rides a month. Plus you could always run android emulators on your laptop. No need to buy 20 phones.


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

Diyor Khamrakulov said:


> Where I work, in San Francisco. I would wake up in the morning and see there is 150% prime time at 7:00am, so I'm out of the door in 10 minutes. I pickup people going to work and get 0-25% primetime.
> 
> If Lyft app would show 25% primetime from the beginning, I would be in my house sleeping. I can get that rate any time of the day. No need to wake up 6:00am.


Your problem is you were to late to the show. you and 20 other drivers in your hood had the same idea. me personally if I see what you just described (just waking up in my underwear) will immediately turn on my map. if I get a ping I accept and text the pax my eta. it's rare they cancel.


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## Diyor Khamrakulov (Apr 25, 2015)

sidewazzz said:


> Your problem is you were to late to the show. you and 20 other drivers in your hood had the same idea. me personally if I see what you just described (just waking up in my underwear) will immediately turn on my map. if I get a ping I accept and text the pax my eta. it's rare they cancel.


That 150% primetime in San Francisco goes from 7:00am -9:00am every morning. Especially when it rains. I would be in the middle of the dark pink area and i get always either 0% or 25%-50% p/t.

Don't tell me that I was late. The P/t does stays for 2 hours


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

Diyor Khamrakulov said:


> If i get 25% primetime on every ride I could. I do 450 rides a month. Plus you could always run android emulators on your laptop. No need to buy 20 phones.


Okay, do that. I just want to point out, if we all have different views on how this work, Lyft has us fooled. They win.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

The thing that makes sense to me, is you have lets say (1) driver on the road online. Then you have (2) requests awaiting, it will bump 1 of the 2 people @ 25%, so now lets say you have (1) more pax open the app and want a request. This will ASSUME the next person to pay an increase of 50%, EVEN THOUGH they haven't requested JUST YET, the future demand gives them a notification of additional rates. How else can it know demand is actually higher than drivers on the road? Simply said; it will predict future demand as you open the app, but this doesn't actually reflect the next request and what the primetime will be. The problem with what I posted though, is 75% increase, shouldn't there then be a heatmap indicating (in this area) its at least 50% increase price of demand, BEFORE the next request?


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

melxjr said:


> I can understand this perspective of how Lyft PT will calculate, but they tell us its based off demand, Opening an app isn't "Demand"


exactly but what I'm saying is, while Lyft is searching for you exact location... (PT somewhere). instead of showing the lowest rate it will show the current pt whereever it is. just in case that pax is in the PT zone (location searching still) if they are not it will correct itself within a few seconds.

so let's flip it... let's say the app always shows the lowest rate even if in a PT zone at the very beginning. the passenger books a low far ride and driver and Lyft lose out on PT or Pax books what they think is a normal rate only to discover they got hit with 100% PT. seems these last two would only cause issues.


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

Diyor Khamrakulov said:


> That 150% primetime in San Francisco goes from 7:00am -9:00am every morning. Especially when it rains. I would be in the middle of the dark pink area and i get always either 0% or 25%-50% p/t.
> 
> Don't tell me that I was late. The P/t does stays for 2 hours


all talk until you can actual prove it, it's not hard. oddly enough almost everyone that complains about these so called scams cant provide much if any evidence of it at all.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

This is the context from Lyfts website about PT's

*What are Heat Maps?*
Heat Maps allow a driver to see where they're needed most. The app displays the areas of highest demand in real time. The shaded sections show where Prime Time is in effect.

*Prime Time for Drivers*
When demand for rides is greater than the number of drivers on the road, passengers may pay an extra amount on top of the base ride amount.

Remember, Prime Time is determined by the location where a passenger places their request, so even if you're waiting in a shaded area, not every request will have Prime Time.

Read the last one VERY carefully.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

Definition of "Request" THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT

an act of asking for something, or the thing asked for:

This means It must be a REAL REPRESENTATION OF DEMAND; which by their algorithm, it ISNT.


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

And since I am being a pest in cities all over, (and pimping Lyft a little even though I do t drive for them) 
View attachment 26835
Here is a chance to be heard. Yes, people have to pay the bills, and yes some will temporarily profit from those who support and do this, but those Windfalls are only for a day. Help get rates back to where it's more like every day!!!

Pass it on to another city thread at least to give other drivers the chance to help themselves be heard! If you have to work, and have Lyft, turn it on. Pax will turn it on undoubtedly, or call for cabs. Hurt Uber in the wallet just like they hurt us.

Pass it on, articles indicate momentum is truly growing.


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## DeeFree (Apr 8, 2015)

If I was stil


melxjr said:


> This directly is very hard to prove, due to the audacity of asking a pax what their statement says, they know and abuse this. Let's gather more proof, but as it stands, they misrepresent what the heatmap actually means and how it actually represents what rates are currently being charged. This alone is a legal suite.


0
If I was driving I could probably do it because most of my passengers are young liberal types. When Lyft was giving the the 50% off deal to passengers back in Oct 2015 a passenger asked me if we could compare and sure enough he got 50% off and I received full fare.

Something is telling me that Lyft is showing more PT area to sucker the drivers who are sitting it out to come back. After all at 50% increase would raise rates to $1.32 a mile, which seems like a fortune now, lol. I'm not falling for it but I am enjoying watching the maps, both driver and passenger.

I just took this screen pic about a half hour ago (I never saw this much pink at this time of the day on a Saturday when I was driving):


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

JaxUbermom said:


> You need a team. One driver, one rider, so that you can prove the rider paid a higher fare than you were paid. Maybe book your own ride for research purposes and drive yourself somewhere. That way you have iron clad proof. I have read about surge/PT being manipulated algorithmically right down to the rider, and the driver, in articles, not just in forum conspiracy theories.
> One, it's fraud, two it's theft of services and three it would be a pretty easy case and a lot of bad press.
> Done being what we call a sea lawyer, back in my navy days. Lol. We have a LOT of them here. Ha ha. But you need your solid proof and it takes the information from the exact same trip from both sides of the ap.
> And I see this a lot on Uber right now. My pax ap will say surge, but my driver one does. To. I have never been brave enough to order myself for a ride, and see what happens. Logically I am closest to my own pin, but would be super interesting to see if I got another driver for some very weird reason.


Just one ride would not be sufficient. There would have to be a lot of them to show a pattern.

If proven, the State Attorney General would get involved since they are defrauding two customers, drivers AND passengers.

I 'd be willing to bet the New York Attorney General would bring up a case. They may even subpoena past passengers receipts and compare what drivers were paid on same trip.


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

GUYS, PT's ARE NOT ACTUALLY PRIMETIME RATES! this is what I'm trying to tell you, THEY ACTUALLY TELL YOU, BUT BY DEFINITION OF CONTEXT THEY'RE WRONG IN WORDING READ THIS PLEASE
Heat Maps allow a driver to see where they're needed most.
so even if you're waiting in a shaded area, not every request will have Prime Time.


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

Agree. A systematic approach to investigation


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

Here is the basic break down. If a customer feels or sees they are paying more and you are not getting that passed through... It's fraud. Just try to prove it and get it noticed.

A drivers map is just a suggestion by the companies. And that is all


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

JaxUbermom said:


> Here is the basic break down. If a customer feels or sees they are paying more and you are not getting that passed through... It's fraud. Just try to prove it and get it noticed.
> 
> A drivers map is just a suggestion by the companies. And that is all


They've already committed fraud by definition dude, if we can prove they're allocating money out of drivers pockets, and overcharing pax, GAME OVER. By definition of Supply and demand, They don't follow the rules within the algorithm AT ALL


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

melxjr said:


> GUYS, PT's ARE NOT ACTUALLY PRIMETIME RATES! this is what I'm trying to tell you, THEY ACTUALLY TELL YOU, BUT BY DEFINITION OF CONTEXT THEY'RE WRONG IN WORDING READ THIS PLEASE
> Heat Maps allow a driver to see where they're needed most.
> so even if you're waiting in a shaded area, not every request will have Prime Time.


"they're" is referring to the driver, it's saying the same thing Uber does. just because you're in a PT zone doesn't mean your request is is going to have a PT rate.

example, if a pax is stating right next to you and your zone is 100% at that moment. the fare is 100% more.

if you're in a PT and it's 100% but you request comes from 2 blocks over where there is no PT. You will not get PT just because you're in the zone.


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## ADX (Nov 22, 2015)

Until you can prove via pictures that a pax's ride was primetime and the driver's pay was not, there's nothing you can do.
Yes the heatmap is a suggestion and yes, Lyft is a dick for not showing PT before accepting.
But until we can get multiple pictures of the rider's receipt (showing PT) and the driver's pay(not showing PT), we can't really do anything.


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

ADX said:


> Until you can prove via pictures that a pax's ride was primetime and the driver's pay was not, there's nothing you can do.
> Yes the heatmap is a suggestion and yes, Lyft is a dick for not showing PT before accepting.
> But until we can get multiple pictures of the rider's receipt (showing PT) and the driver's pay(not showing PT), we can't really do anything.


I've already tried it several times.... with my own accounts at the same exact time. it's not a flaw there is no scam. the only shitty thing I don't like is how Lyft doesn't show what rate the pax is paying. that's why I run with a phone and tablet to have a very good idea what rate a pax is paying.


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## galileo5 (Jan 16, 2016)

Diyor Khamrakulov said:


> Where I work, in San Francisco. I would wake up in the morning and see there is 150% prime time at 7:00am, so I'm out of the door in 10 minutes. I pickup people going to work and get 0-25% primetime.
> 
> If Lyft app would show 25% primetime from the beginning, I would be in my house sleeping. I can get that rate any time of the day. No need to wake up 6:00am.


Are you in the dark pink area? The darker the heat map, the higher the PT. It would be up to 150%.
My app would tell me of PT rates in an area that's over an hour away from me. I also noticed getting PT rates when there's no pink on the map at all.
I'm not defending them. I'm just sharing my experience.


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## Diyor Khamrakulov (Apr 25, 2015)

galileo5 said:


> Are you in the dark pink area? The darker the heat map, the higher the PT. It would be up to 150%.
> My app would tell me of PT rates in an area that's over an hour away from me. I also noticed getting PT rates when there's no pink on the map at all.
> I'm not defending them. I'm just sharing my experience.


Yes, im inside of the pink area. The passenger requesting is also inside this pink area.

I know that when it says 50% on the top of the screen that does not mean it is in my area. It could be one tiny block 50 miles away from me, and i still see that 50%. I am not arguing about that.

I am talking about when my car and the passenger location is clearly in the dark pink heat map, and I get no primetime bonus.[/QUOTE]


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## galileo5 (Jan 16, 2016)

Diyor Khamrakulov said:


> Yes, im inside of the pink area. The passenger requesting is also inside this pink area.
> 
> I know that when it says 50% on the top of the screen that does not mean it is in my area. It could be one tiny block 50 miles away from me, and i still see that 50%. I am not arguing about that.
> 
> I am talking about when my car and the passenger location is clearly in the dark pink heat map, and I get no primetime bonus.


Perhaps the 150% was for an area that was 50 miles away.


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## Awesome2 (Jan 16, 2015)

Monday 2-1-16


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

Awesome2 said:


> Monday 2-1-16


and notice how everyone remains quite about that day??? tells me some people really killed it.


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## Aztek98 (Jul 23, 2015)

This morning I got two PT rides from areas where there was 0 pink.

It's an odd system for sure.


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## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

Awesome2 said:


> Monday 2-1-16


damn


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## DudeCity (Jun 22, 2015)

Simple guy's if u pick up anyone during Prime Time " Hi sir sorry it's extremely busy

right now guess U got p/t just go little higher than rate was it 150% " They normally

jump and reply NO it's only 100% after that just check wt u got end of trip

for me up to now it matched. But just bcoz map is pink that doesn't mean U

clinched a P/T Fuber is far Above where the Surge Rate is concerned.


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

Aztek98 said:


> This morning I got two PT rides from areas where there was 0 pink.
> 
> It's an odd system for sure.


There is a pretty big delay from PT showing on the driver app. the Uber app should give you a good idea if it's PT or not.


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## driveLA (Aug 15, 2014)

this shit pissed me off last night 

clusterf*ck of a pick up my final ride and app showed 200% primetime when i accepted and after all the trouble i didn't even get the primetime 

lyft needs to fix its bullshit system


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## bibkel (Feb 5, 2016)

Surge usually surrounds me, but it rarely is where I am. My first night I "chased the surge" but learned quickly it was as effective as herding cats. 
Now, I simply go where I like to drive. Read on my kindle, and scoot off when there is a ride. 
Last few days in San Fran there was NO downtime, but I did have several cancel the call right after I a carpeted it, due to the wait of 15 minutes to go five blocks. I moved to another part of the city (took me 45 minutes) then went online again. Sunday, I took a few rides home, but not many. My 2nd check from Uber will be $600 and I am happy with that. I just hope to keep or increase that amount as I learn the tricks. 
What I am having issues with is signing up for Lyft. I have "verified" my phone about 50 times, and I keep getting an unknown error. Help said to use another browser, so I have actually used my iPhone, iPad and my MacBook. Makes me not want to drive for them. 
I am told I am " the best uber driver, ever" on about 80% of my fares, not sure if that is normal smoke blowing, or if other drivers are simply sucky. 
I do want to fill in down time with Lyft, as the rides requested in Sonoma county are few and far between during the day, m-th. Evenings are best Friday sat Sunday.....but I am liking the city because I know it well. I just hate the $5 fares that go 6 blocks east downtown. Those suck, and they Re all engrossed in their cell phone. I feel more like a chauffeur.


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## iMEECH (Jun 22, 2015)

Funny story. I pick up a guy on Sunday (Super Bowl Sunday) he advises he made some extra cash for the game win so he didn't mind paying extra on the PRIMETIME, Lyft quoted him $45 to $50 from Hawthorne to Downtown LA (near Wilshire & Western), the heat map was enabled so I just knew I would receive PRIMETIME fare. Sure as I ended the ride, the total came out to $22. I asked the rider how much Lyft charged him and he said $39.75. So my guess was that Lyft took the extra $17 and pockets it. I didn't email about it because I've cut back on driving due to this exact reason. Lyft & Uber is definitely taking advantage of their drivers, and passengers. It's not a good look.


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## iMEECH (Jun 22, 2015)

Also I've noticed a lot of dark pink in my area but majority of the rides come out to the regular fare. It's strange because this is during rush hour when it's the busiest. People are bragging about basically receiving a "free ride" while we struggle to make our daily quotas.


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

iMEECH said:


> Funny story. I pick up a guy on Sunday (Super Bowl Sunday) he advises he made some extra cash for the game win so he didn't mind paying extra on the PRIMETIME, Lyft quoted him $45 to $50 from Hawthorne to Downtown LA (near Wilshire & Western), the heat map was enabled so I just knew I would receive PRIMETIME fare. Sure as I ended the ride, the total came out to $22. I asked the rider how much Lyft charged him and he said $39.75. So my guess was that Lyft took the extra $17 and pockets it. I didn't email about it because I've cut back on driving due to this exact reason. Lyft & Uber is definitely taking advantage of their drivers, and passengers. It's not a good look.


This is an example of what everyone keeps talking about and trying to catch them with their hands in the cookie jar. Both Ap companies. It is extremely difficult without coordination of a driver and a passenger to do it. Sounds like a good story for an investigative reporter.... Anyone know one?


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## Maynard26 (Mar 26, 2015)

melxjr said:


> Here is now proof that Lyft primetime IS in-fact a scam. So I tired requesting a ride and saw 75% added, Within 1-2 seconds switched to the driver app and it NEVER SHOWED a heatmap of primetime rates! Take a look at these screenshots. Is it time to send Lyft a piece of our mind; for misrepresentation of when a primetime is actually happening? Is this why they don't show us primetime? CLIENTS ARE BEING CHARGED A PRIME RATE AND LYFT DOESN'T ACTUALLY SHOW US THE TRUTH! Proof below. Shouldn't there be at least 25% or even 50% prime map before the 75%? THIS IS A SCAM! After signing back off to passenger app, THE PRIMETIME RATE WAS STILL BEING APPLIED!


Why are you even wasting time with this post?

Just team up with a buddy, one of you order a ride, the other accept it.

Compare the invoices.

Then you'll know for sure.

Simply not seeing a heatmap is zero evidence of anything.

It's just lag.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Question,

If it truly were a problem of lag time, wouldn't drivers also get PT unexpectedly.

Seems to me there's complaints about NOT getting PT. But nobody ever says they get paid extra PT without expecting it.


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## JaxUbermom (Jan 26, 2016)

Has anyone ever had that happen?


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## Maynard26 (Mar 26, 2015)

I


observer said:


> Question,
> 
> If it truly were a problem of lag time, wouldn't drivers also get PT unexpectedly.
> 
> Seems to me there's complaints about NOT getting PT. But nobody ever says they get paid extra PT without expecting it.


I have gotten PT unexpectedly. It works both ways. This has been going on as long as i've driven for Lyft.

Do you really think that Lyft would attempt a scam like this??

The public relations implications would DESTROY the company overnight.


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## soupergloo (Jul 24, 2015)

I've also gotten PT unexpectedly, but it's never been anything close to 200% .. always 25%.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Thnx for the responses, 

I wonder if they get a lot of complaints from pax about unexpected PT charges. It would seem to me that would be like going to the grocery store buying 1.99 of bananas then getting home and finding out you were charged 3.99. 

It must not happen a lot, or people don't check their receipts.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

iMEECH said:


> Funny story. I pick up a guy on Sunday (Super Bowl Sunday) he advises he made some extra cash for the game win so he didn't mind paying extra on the PRIMETIME, Lyft quoted him $45 to $50 from Hawthorne to Downtown LA (near Wilshire & Western), the heat map was enabled so I just knew I would receive PRIMETIME fare. Sure as I ended the ride, the total came out to $22. I asked the rider how much Lyft charged him and he said $39.75. So my guess was that Lyft took the extra $17 and pockets it. I didn't email about it because I've cut back on driving due to this exact reason. Lyft & Uber is definitely taking advantage of their drivers, and passengers. It's not a good look.


iMEECH, even though you've cut back on driving due to being disgusted with the Lyft-Uber system, you can/should still help everyone else (and yourself too) by at least going to https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/requests/new and filling out a support ticket. Use the "Rules and Regulations" category in the drop-down box and it will get prompt attention. Just copy/paste your post into that support ticket, and also add a few words to let Lyft know that social media is picking up on this and Drivers along with Passengers are starting to feel ripped off. All companies want to avoid being accused of illegal and immoral activities on Social Media, because that's how FRAUD investigations get started.

If I experience what you did this weekend, I'd follow the above advice. I'd also file an online report with the new Consumer Protection office at https://www.usa.gov/complaint-letter-wizard. This generates an official complaint letter to Lyft and also files it with the Federal Government, who will route it to the Agency that oversees transportation companies.

I hope you'll help ALL Lyft Drivers & Passengers by reporting this huge 45% discrepancy. Either the passenger paid too much, or you were shown a low, fictitious fare, which reduced your compensation for that ride. What you experienced may not happen with every Prime-Time ride given by every driver, but just like they do at the casino's Lyft's software could be set to dial-up or dial-down the number of Driver vs Passenger fare discrepancies per day, per market...maybe even down to the driver level, for the lower-rated drivers.

At any rate, this must be stopped. Hopefully Lyft will take care of it in-house, and promptly. Thank-you for letting us know that these discrepancies actually exist, iMEECH. I'm doing spot-checks too with passengers. Not much Prime-Time out here in the Chicago suburbs in the middle of the day, though. (I only drive 3 hours every afternoon)


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## galileo5 (Jan 16, 2016)

observer said:


> Question,
> 
> If it truly were a problem of lag time, wouldn't drivers also get PT unexpectedly.
> 
> Seems to me there's complaints about NOT getting PT. But nobody ever says they get paid extra PT without expecting it.


I replied earlier in the thread that I received a PT ride without the map showing pink in the area.


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## galileo5 (Jan 16, 2016)

observer said:


> Thnx for the responses,
> 
> I wonder if they get a lot of complaints from pax about unexpected PT charges. It would seem to me that would be like going to the grocery store buying 1.99 of bananas then getting home and finding out you were charged 3.99.
> 
> It must not happen a lot, or people don't check their receipts.


They know before requesting a car that they're paying extra. Do you not use Lyft?


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

galileo5 said:


> They know before requesting a car that they're paying extra. Do you not use Lyft?


I have never used either Lyft or Uber, I don't believe in supporting companies that abuse their employees.

I don't use a lot of taxis either, but the ones I have are generally owner operated.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Now, on to our discussion. If a pax app can be accurate at time of ping, why can't drivers app be just as accurate?


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## iMEECH (Jun 22, 2015)

AllenChicago you are absolutely right! I will submit that in the morning...


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

iMEECH said:


> AllenChicago you are absolutely right! I will submit that in the morning...


On behalf of Lyft drivers everywhere, THANK-YOU iMEECH! All change for good starts with one person getting the ball rolling.


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## Dts08 (Feb 25, 2015)

Lyft should do what Uber does and show in their app if the rider your going to pick up is paying a PT rate instead of waiting until you drop of rider..but I know they won't do it because no one will drive out a PT area to go get a pax who is not PT...I did five rides this AM, not one PT even thou I was in the pink


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

iMEECH said:


> Funny story. I pick up a guy on Sunday (Super Bowl Sunday) he advises he made some extra cash for the game win so he didn't mind paying extra on the PRIMETIME, Lyft quoted him $45 to $50 from Hawthorne to Downtown LA (near Wilshire & Western), the heat map was enabled so I just knew I would receive PRIMETIME fare. Sure as I ended the ride, the total came out to $22. I asked the rider how much Lyft charged him and he said $39.75. So my guess was that Lyft took the extra $17 and pockets it. I didn't email about it because I've cut back on driving due to this exact reason. Lyft & Uber is definitely taking advantage of their drivers, and passengers. It's not a good look.


Why wouldn't you ask your pax to send you a screen shot?


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## sidewazzz (Jun 30, 2015)

observer said:


> Question,
> 
> If it truly were a problem of lag time, wouldn't drivers also get PT unexpectedly.
> 
> Seems to me there's complaints about NOT getting PT. But nobody ever says they get paid extra PT without expecting it.


What's funny is I've never had a problem with PT and I give a good amount of PT rides....


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## melxjr (Sep 10, 2015)

Maynard26 said:


> Why are you even wasting time with this post?
> 
> Just team up with a buddy, one of you order a ride, the other accept it.
> 
> ...


Why're you wasting your time commenting on a waste of time? Bringing things forward and to attention is simply the correct thing to do.


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## HakunaMatata (Jan 2, 2017)

melxjr said:


> Yup they claim it's an old request, BS. Hardly think someone on NYE waited 3 hours for their Lyft driver to accept and show up. It was all pink 3 hours before I started working. This was an old request? HUH?


Lyft told me their PT changes second by second regardless of pink zones. Lol


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## JTR (Nov 13, 2015)

2-When request comes in, check with riders app on that location percentage of prime so that you can decide to take it or not. Ps- having more patience always worked out better for me so waiting little more in prime zone is good idea like middleclass advice


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Sometimes you don't need evidence to know a criminal is a criminal, you just know. Please revert to your arbitration agreement, and have a nice day!


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