# Does Uber fake surges??



## Chauffeur_James

So I was 6 minutes away from the airport when I see that it's 3x surge. I head on over and as I enter the que I see that there are 45 cars in the que. 30 when I started heading over. After 5 minutes the surge goes away and I see there's only 2 flights that recently came is, but about 15 flights coming in during the hour. I'm seriously wondering if they created a fake surge in anticipation of the arriving flights to get drivers over here. If they are really doing this crap then this will be the end of surging for them


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## sarasota

I find that with surges. They have surge where I am located and I get no rides. Or they have surge in area so I drive over and it disappears as soon as I get there. I think it is a scam to get you to fill in areas of city.


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## Shangsta

sarasota said:


> I find that with surges. They have surge where I am located and I get no rides. Or they have surge in area so I drive over and it disappears as soon as I get there. I think it is a scam to get you to fill in areas of city.


Never drive to a surge online. Get their offline and then go online. As drivers converge on a surge it dies.


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## PCH5150

I was driving towards a surge last night (was already headed that way). I went to the middle of it offline, parked and went back online. Surge disappeared. Waited a few minutes and no pings. I headed home and got a Lyft ping that had me turning around and going back to where I just was! I get there and rider cancels (of course). 

Surge never works out in my area, I basically ignore it.


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## Brandendman

Lol I was sitting in a surge area over 8 for 20 minutes when I got ride didn't show surge cancelled more came so I accepted now uber telling me that the one address within that 5 mile red radius must not have been surging...So after fighting and sitting in traffic backed up for miles uber tells me sorry you don't get the surge...Uber does what they want and could give a crap about us..


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## Polomarko

Yes Uber does fake the surge.


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## FL_Dex

I also think they fake surges but not the really big ones. It's hard to tell. A surge draws drivers and customers hate it, combined those factors can end a surge pretty quickly. 

Unless we get a WikiLeaks style internal document dump outlining the practice, we'll probably never know. Maybe we can convince the Russians to hack Uber?


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## NASCAR1991

One of my friends likes to do airports (idiot).
I seen surge before at 2.5x
I called him and asked him if hes in the airoprt. He said yes he is in a waiting lot...and he said that there is no surge on his phone while him beeing there while my phone says 2.5x


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## GrinsNgiggles

It's not always uberx that's surging. I check the rider app for the area that's surging and sometimes it's only select that has the surge.


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## Trump Economics

Chauffeur_James said:


> So I was 6 minutes away from the airport when I see that it's 3x surge. I head on over and as I enter the que I see that there are 45 cars in the que. 30 when I started heading over. After 5 minutes the surge goes away and I see there's only 2 flights that recently came is, but about 15 flights coming in during the hour. I'm seriously wondering if they created a fake surge in anticipation of the arriving flights to get drivers over here. If they are really doing this crap then this will be the end of surging for them


Short answer: yes. Long answer: yes.


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## MrLinus

Trump Economics said:


> Short answer: yes. Long answer: yes.


Isn't there a medium answer?


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## crazy916

MrLinus said:


> Isn't there a medium answer?


Yes but it is to long/short to post.


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## NCRBILL

Don't chase a surge. If you happen to see it on the request screen go for it. If not wait for it.


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## SubiLapp

I'm a month into driving for Uber and I quickly learned not to chase a surge. However, I watched my maps the last week or so and noticed that in Princeton, NJ there was a constant two hour surge in the morning and evening rush hours. I live 45 minutes away so last night I drove to Princeton with Uber shut off. I entered a surge (see photo) that magically disappeared once I entered it. Again, for the past week when I was 30 miles away it was good for a solid two hours but when I entered the surge it disappeared for the next hour and I left after just four $5 fares. I lost money and time and won't go to "help Uber" as they want.


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## Shangsta

SubiLapp said:


> I'm a month into driving for Uber and I quickly learned not to chase a surge. However, I watched my maps the last week or so and noticed that in Princeton, NJ there was a constant two hour surge in the morning and evening rush hours. I live 45 minutes away so last night I drove to Princeton with Uber shut off. I entered a surge (see photo) that magically disappeared once I entered it. Again, for the past week when I was 30 miles away it was good for a solid two hours but when I entered the surge it disappeared for the next hour and I left after just four $5 fares. I lost money and time and won't go to "help Uber" as they want.


You are doing better but you should already be in the surge area before it starts. Not even driving towards it. Sit offline, Turn your pax app on and pretend to order a ride. Watch the surge build then grab a ride once you see the surge you want.


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## SubiLapp

Shangsta said:


> You are doing better but you should already be in the surge area before it starts. Not even driving towards it. Sit offline, Turn your pax app on and pretend to order a ride. Watch the surge build then grab a ride once you see the surge you want.


Thanks for the tip.


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## JSM0713

Polomarko said:


> Yes Uber does fake the surge.


Hey, I understand what you're saying, but there's some really big implications for Uber if they get caught manipulating surges as some of you believe. The US government takes price fixing and manipulation very seriously for those companies attempting to do it. The DOJ would skewer a company like Uber if they were to find they surged arbitrarily to make more money.... that's gouging. The fines, bad publicity, among other things would be horrible.... especially the publicity considering all the other muck Uber is involved with now.....


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## garyk

First off it really helps to know how surge is triggered. It is not triggered by people ordering rides it is triggered by people looking at the passenger app to see if there a driver is in the area. If you grab enough drivers and go to an area where there is never surge at 4 in the morning and have like 30 people look at their passenger app and one person look at the driver app you will see a surge appear

You also have to note that the driver app is delayed between 3 and 5 minutes so if you are seeing surge it could have disappeared between 3 and 5 minutes before you got there.


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## Polomarko

Does anyone notice that morning shift in SF has no surge any more, only max boost 2.1
As I recall, correctly it used to be surge up to 3.5
Conclusion: Uber fixed the market killing the surge and replace it with boost, actually lowers drivers earnings.
In the min time they raised there comision $.2 booking fees.


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## garyk

Polomarko said:


> Does anyone notice that morning shift in SF has no surge any more, only max boost 2.1
> As I recall, correctly it used to be surge up to 3.5
> Conclusion: Uber fixed the market killing the surge and replace it with boost, actually lowers drivers earnings.
> In the min time they raised there comision $.2 booking fees.


I think you have that backwards. They killed surge by applying boost ensuring that too many drivers will be in the area. They did not go into computer and remove surge... They just used a lure to make sure enough drivers are in the area to kill surge before it starts.


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## peteyvavs

I've had pickups in area that said it was surging, yet I don't get the surge rate after picking up a passenger, it's a scam to get drivers to chase their tail.


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## garyk

The Uber response to that would be that sometimes the driver's application is still showing surge after it's already gone because there's a two-minute delay in updating your app. It's a bunch of b*******


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## peteyvavs

garyk, don't chase surges they'll cost you gas and time.


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## garyk

I'm not stupid I try and drive away from surges because everybody else is driving towards them


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## Shangsta

peteyvavs said:


> I've had pickups in area that said it was surging, yet I don't get the surge rate after picking up a passenger, it's a scam to get drivers to chase their tail.


Rookie mistake. Stop looking at the map. If you get a ping with no surge on it. Don't accept it, simple as that


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## garyk

Shangsta said:


> Rookie mistake. Stop looking at the map. If you get a ping with no surge on it. Don't accept it, simple as that


There are so many drivers in the Seattle area now that if you only accept rides with surges you're never going to make any money. The surges are so few and far between that it's impossible to just work surge anymore in this city.


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## sidemouse

No it's not faked but it is either seriously flawed or a very bad idea, at least from a consumer's standpoint.

No doubt for a driver this is the best thing since hole in cheese!
Who doesn't want to get paid 2 and 3 and 5 and even 8 or 10x their normal wage?
I didn't hear much negative answers there.

But if you're a buyer (or a Pax) and you'd normally pay $10 to get from A to B how would you like to pay $20 or $50 instead?
Would you really, seriously pay that kind of money?
Come on, your cellular phone company suddenly suffers from high demand and now they want you to pay 3x the monthly bill you're used to paying, would you pay it or would you drop them like a hot potato and seek cellular coverage elsewhere?
Granted with Uber there might not be another rideshare company around, so the pax usually waits the surge out.
What's waiting 30 minutes for a surge to die out if you're looking at spending $10 vs. $30?
Pax are not stupid, I would further suspect most are not looking for extra ways to throw money away.

I do see posts from Uber drivers bragging about cashing in on surges, however my experience has been different. My experience with surge is go sit in one if you want NO pings (such as during an hourly guarantee lol) but again I don't move my car even a foot if it means going in / out of surge, instead I park in the closest available 'free and legal' space I can find to my last drop-off, wherever that is, whatever, that's where I'll be until next ping.

Personally I think surge could work out favorably if the pay increase was considerably more reasonable, like single digit %. A light surge might mean a 2-3% increase, a really heavy surge 6-8% and the worst absolute bad storm surge deep red almost purple maybe 10% (just thinking out loud) but this 1.2x to 5x garbage doesn't work except maybe in some overactive imaginations.


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## Shangsta

garyk said:


> There are so many drivers in the Seattle area now that if you only accept rides with surges you're never going to make any money. The surges are so few and far between that it's impossible to just work surge anymore in this city.


That wasn't my point. The OP said he got a non surge ping in a surge area and thought he was getting surge. You should never accept a ping without a surge multiplier on it thinking it's a surge ping, it's a rookie mistake


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## garyk

The rookie mistake is not reading your pings when they come in


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## Shangsta

garyk said:


> The rookie mistake is not reading your pings when they come in


Exactly!


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## UberPoolNoBueno

There is a lot of misinformation here, and let me tell you, Im a Data Analyst, (is a shsh job and is not lucrative as you may think), Surge is controled by adding this "Boosts", and it analyzes data obtain and through learning algorithms they are to determine the exact Surge amount, often even miliseconds after it goes away, data produces a new set of possible surges in demand. How? analytics in real time, is a predictable algorithm that can go up or down, by one or two customers requesting a trip. It drives drivers there and then it goes away by measuring how many drivers that zone will have and opening another predictable surge on another place.


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## garyk

UberPoolNoBueno said:


> There is a lot of misinformation here, and let me tell you, Im a Data Analyst, (is a shsh job and is not lucrative as you may think), Surge is controled by adding this "Boosts", and it analyzes data obtain and through learning algorithms they are to determine the exact Surge amount, often even miliseconds after it goes away, data produces a new set of possible surges in demand. How? analytics in real time, is a predictable algorithm that can go up or down, by one or two customers requesting a trip. It drives drivers there and then it goes away by measuring how many drivers that zone will have and opening another predictable surge on another place.


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## jfinks

UberPoolNoBueno said:


> There is a lot of misinformation here, and let me tell you, Im a Data Analyst, (is a shsh job and is not lucrative as you may think), Surge is controled by adding this "Boosts", and it analyzes data obtain and through learning algorithms they are to determine the exact Surge amount, often even miliseconds after it goes away, data produces a new set of possible surges in demand. How? analytics in real time, is a predictable algorithm that can go up or down, by one or two customers requesting a trip. It drives drivers there and then it goes away by measuring how many drivers that zone will have and opening another predictable surge on another place.


Uber can create surges just by monitoring the amount of riders "looking" for a ride, not just requesting. But like you said it is a complex algorithm that has many metrics.

Area history for given day/time
Known event(s) in area
actual ride request amount to driver availability.
# of uber pax dropped off in area earlier in evening
# of riders browsing/pricing rides
and I'm sure many more. You might remember news about uber tracking pax after they leave the ride. This is for information as to where they went. They can use this to predict how long a potential rider stays in that location and therefore what time they might be looking for another ride. If someone Ubers to a location, 9 times out of 10 they will be ubering later.


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## Howie428Uber

In my area the only type of surge that occurs outside urban centers is the “Bait and Switch.”

Sometimes, if the system knows that a request or multiple requests are imminent and thinks it won’t be able to cover them, then it will trigger a localized surge. The key element in this is Scheduled rides, which rolled out around the same time as the new surge map. However, these surges are not for drivers’ benefit.

The surge happens before the trip is needed and is intended to pull drivers in. The surge will end and then as if by magic… Ping!

There have been surges near where I live since the new map came in, but I have not had a single surged trip from there. I guess it’s possible that an unlucky passenger would turn on at the wrong moment and request an unexpected trip, but I’m not seeing much evidence of that.

I try to follow an approach that if I happen to be in an area where one of these localized surges has played through, I won’t accept the non-surge ping that follows it. I’m sure that makes no difference at all, but I like to think that not biting on the bait and switch makes the driver manipulation a bit less effective.


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## jfinks

Ya gotta love that out of surge ping when you are sitting smack dab in the middle of a 3x surge area. Ignore. lol


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## NachonCheeze

I really don't miss no longer driving for fUber.


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## JuanMoreTime

So far as I can tell, Surge happens based on two factors:

1: the number of drivers in a given area would be insufficient to maintain a short (<5 minute) pick up time in the event that someone in that area decides to request a ride, regardless of actual demand. In Los Angeles, this appears to be the most common type of surge, as there are out of the way areas and areas with exceptionally high crime rates that most drivers avoid which regularly surge. If you do happen to be in those areas, 90% of the requests you receive will be from outside the surging area, and once enough drivers arrive in the surging area to meet the needs of the algorithm, the surge will disappear. Example areas: San Pedro, San Clemente and Dana Point, Compton, Inglewood, South Central Los Angeles.

2: Historically high demand or a well-publicized event. This is still tied in to their supply/demand algorithm, and doesn't always mean that you'll actually receive any ping originating from the surge area. Uber expects a high demand in that area, and in the case of an event they will cause the surge to go high in the area before the event lets out in order to increase the number of available drivers. Most of the time the surge will dissipate immediately upon the scheduled end of the event, as soon as pax actually start to request rides. Examples: Concerts at The Forum or Hollywood Bowl, the Long Beach Grand Prix, West Hollywood from midnight to 1:55am.

Tying Surge to *actual* customer demand in real time so that drivers can regularly make an actual profit isn't in Uber's apparent interest, though sometimes they make mistakes and drivers inadvertently get a request from a pax who is actually in the surging area. Travis has his assistant spank him lightly (not hard enough to actually derive any pleasure) whenever that happens.


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## senorCRV

I have a video from the Kentucky Derby of my app going nuts with pings from three locations over and over.

If I accepted them they'd cancel immediately and all were in the geofence area that should give them a pin and direct them to uberzone.

Not to mention, I was literally (actually, not milenial "literally") surrounded by over 100 active uber drivers with app-on.

Maybe something in the code that I saw. it, but It happened when scheduled Boost started.


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## Pearlina

Typical PHILA airport "surge" - while keeping track of incoming flights and knowing that there are no riders in the Phl queue rideshare /lot thanks to uber texts "to head to airport now" as there is 1 partner waiting you'd think there would be at least a
1.2 or above surge no!? 3 flights landing even Lyft has a 50% primetime on their fares but uber does this - see map and ask if any drivers got a ping inside terminal with a surge. Also please note the area around airport (where the surge is) is a national wildlife reserve with no people inhabitants! 

Tell me someone please why the hell uber chooses to NOT set a higher fare for pax!? I thought this is the type of situation that makes a legit surge? Instead they play games of getting drivers to airport in expectation of surge based on text from uber, the map, and no ants visible!? Wtf?!?


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## dennis09

Pearlina said:


> Tell me someone please why the hell uber chooses to NOT set a higher fare for pax!?


Because the ultimate goal for both uber and pax is to get rides at the cheapest price possible. Uber know cheaper prices will increase the demand and neither party could give a d*m about what you make. Uber makes money on every single trip regardless of how profitable or not it will be for the driver.


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## senorCRV

In Louisville over the weekend I needed one more ride to make top guarantee and go home, just parked in a church parking lot to take a nap with app on while waiting for any ping at all, wasn't chasing anything.

After a couple minutes I was ready to get out the neck pillow but didn't because I noticed I was now sitting in the middle of a light orange surge. Honestly didn't care about the surge, but figured since it was there I'd get the ride so I waited.

The thing got bigger and went red, I was dead center of the thing. 

After 15 minutes in the middle of a surge I put the neck pillow on and took my nap... woke up to a ping (they always wake me up) 20 minutes later. No surge.

What a joke.


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## kdyrpr

In Hartford, CT area they have been promoting a ...get this 1.1 Boost. Monday - Friday morning rush. THIS believe it or not has essentially killed a surge that averaged 1.5 plus for a large portion of the morning. Do drivers actually THINK before they fall for this crap I wonder?


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## AVLien

Polomarko said:


> Yes Uber does fake the surge.


Surges are a function of the Uber partner app, how then can Uber "fake" a surge? That's like saying "The sky 'faked' rain today."

If water falls out of the sky from clouds, it's rain. If there is a surge, it isn't fake, unless everyone is seeing something different. Even then to say it's "fake" is, at best, a misnomer. What exactly do you mean by "Uber does fake the surge"?

I'm not tryimg to be a prick or anything, I just think we should all be clear about what we are talking about, otherwise Uber (et al) can get over on all of us all the time.


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## Matt's your driver

I am not sure if they are fake surges.
I am surrounded by what I refer to as "The Squalor Zone," here in Ga.
I have had one surge fare near my home in 4 months. My area consistently surges for up to 30 minutes twice between the hours of 6:30, and 7:30AM
I have been in this zone too many times to count.
Its my impression that these poorer riders are just waiting out the surge.
As soon as the surge expires, I get pings.
I will not accept pool during busy times.
Also, in certain parts of town, riders are only offered Pool.
I found this out as a rider, and it shocked me!
So, I will no longer work in certain parts of Atlanta, that are Pool areas only.
M.


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## Mrgoose72

I was in the Princeton area on Sunday night (5/15) and I was in a bright red surge, right smack in the middle, no pings. then I get one a few minutes later and its for 1.3x. I also have been around surges and got nothing. I also notice it could be bright red, and then 1-2 minutes later totally gone. Something seems off to me.


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## Joseph Torti

Mrgoose72 said:


> I was in the Princeton area on Sunday night (5/15) and I was in a





Mrgoose72 said:


> I was in the Princeton area on Sunday night (5/15) and I was in a bright red surge, right smack in the middle, no pings. then I get one a few minutes later and its for 1.3x. I also have been around surges and got nothing. I also notice it could be bright red, and then 1-2 minutes later totally gone. Something seems off to me.


Same happen to me a 3.30 - 4 am in the morning. I got a guy come up to me wanted a free 15 miles away ride. Told to pay me cash or download uber app.


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## Mrgoose72

That's happened to me, some guy into the car with another guy, I dropped the one guy off and the other guy wanted me to take him somewhere else. He even came with me to the next ride, and when I told him I'm going the opposite direction he got out. Shady


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## Joseph Torti

Mrgoose72 said:


> That's happened to me, some guy into the car with another guy, I dropped the one guy off and the other guy wanted me to take him somewhere else. He even came with me to the next ride, and when I told him I'm going the opposite direction he got out. Shady


Might be another way around this do not close out the first rider and when you drop off the other cheap S.O.B closed out the first rider after dropping off the deadbeat. He might not have a friend or they just divide the fare when they realize you wasn't duped.

b


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## dennis09

Mrgoose72 said:


> That's happened to me, some guy into the car with another guy, I dropped the one guy off and the other guy wanted me to take him somewhere else. He even came with me to the next ride, and when I told him I'm going the opposite direction he got out. Shady


So you just let some random dude ride around in the car with you??? If the trip was ended the car shouldn't have moved until he got out.


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## Mrgoose72

He didn't want to go with the guy who called for the ride, he was piss drunk, and talking like a moron. He said stop at the ATM and he'll give me cash. The problem was right before the stop i accepted another ride. So when this new ride was going in the opposite direction he got out


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## sanchez15

Yes, they fake surges (or the app just sucks and is too slow --not the case) to get you into the area and to help you and them make extra money. Its just not logical for you to be in a 2 or even 3x surge area for more than 1m and not instantly get a ride. I have waited 3-5m in bright red zones...


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## Mrgoose72

You think Lyft is more reputable?


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## sanchez15

Hell no, Lyft lies about everything. Even the pay they show you on the app is a lie (its before their 20%). I have litterally seen the hours worked on the Lyft app chagne before my eyes. Yesterday it went from 2hrs (which is what I was logged in for) to 40m... Only to make it look like I made more than I did. Lyft is so dishonest it is sickening.

Lyft surges are worse in the disappearing sense. They also do not give promotions if your car is older than 2011. So Uber is better for that. Uber usually makes more money, after promotions. You can take advantage of Lyft at times though, if it is surging and Uber is not. Its a gamble though given the flimsiness of Lyft surge. The six figure rideshare guys tend to use 80% Uber and 20% Lyft. They are getting $80 an hr with Lyft when they use it for that 20%. They are onto something with the Lyft surging at certain areas( this is in San FRancisco). However they use Uber 80% of the time to hit the promotions (which were good until about 4 weeks ago...). Uber burned 1 billion in driver promotions in 2016. Keep in mind these six figure guys are working like 72 hours a week.


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