# My friend says give non tippers a 3-4 instead of a 1



## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

He says you shouldn't be concerned about a tip and should rate the passenger a 3 or 4 if everything is fine. And so I agreed with him that non tippers should be a 3. And he said I should give all passengers a 3 or 4 if everything is fine. He said that is the right thing to do because a 1 is very insulting. 

And I said what about a 5? He said if he was a driver he would only give someone a 5 if they were exceptional and over the top good. And that goes for being a rider too. I told him that he'd get drivers fired for having that kind of mentality. And he said that there's nothing wrong with being a 3 or a 4, it's average, and that lots of drivers are 3s and 4s. 

I told him I'm a 4.9 and he said I'm lucky then because if I just get a couple of 3s and 4s I'll be on way to being a 4. He says there's nothing wrong with a 4 and that he has lots of friends who drive and are 3s and 4s.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

I don't know who this sudden and mysterious friend you made in the last week or so, but he seems to be coming up more and more. I'm wondering if you are adopting a SWIM mentality in order to seem less.... under powered in the cranium. SWIM, by the way, is short for Someone Who Isn't Me... a tactic some people use in certain message boards when discussing illicit advise such as drug use, etc.

Since it seems your new friend is a driver, I guarantee you he's trying to get you deactivated so there'd be one less driver on the road and he knows you are just about gullible enough to fall for it. Any driver at a 4.0 is close to being deactivated, any driver at a 3.0 is probably on their last day, at the very least their last week.

If a rider is pleasant, they get a 5. Rating any other way defeats the purpose of the rating system, and as you've already pointed out, if it's not cool to pull that standard on a driver, why should it be cool to do it to a pax?


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## DRider85 (Nov 19, 2016)

I never said he was a driver


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I've read the OP twice and I can't figure out what the point of it is supposed to be. If you're a 4.9 why do you possibly care what some 'friend' of yours thinks.


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

How I rate passengers.
5* Someone who tips me.
4* Someone who is average and asks for nothing but a safe ride.
3* People who expect something for free or makes me wait longer then normal or who dirties my car.
2* People who have luggage and I load and unload it for them so they do not scratch my car and do not tip me.
1* Jerks, demanding people, People with dogs, Drunk people with no control or groups that try to overload my vehicle.

My average rating is a 4* only tippers get a 5*


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## TK-421 (Mar 3, 2017)

I've been thinking a lot about ratings lately (ok, well not THAT much thought). First, the OP has a point about 3 & 4 being acceptable. In every other function or measurement in the world, a 3 or 4 would be acceptable for "doing the job" as expected. a 5 would be for something where one went above and beyond. If everyone (PAX & Drivers alike) are all 5's, then that means we are perfect and have no room for improvement. Does that mean no one should ever get a 5? No, it simply means that not every trip is necessarily a 5 star. HOWEVER, Uber holds drivers to what I would call an artificially high standard which skews the rating system and thereby making 4 & 5 stars ratings for AVERAGE service. It's the same thing as when you have a car dealership or other service company that tells you "anything less than a 5 is a failure". Really? A 4 is failure? But we are stuck with what Uber requires so we need those 5 stars.

Now, since PAX are not held to the same standard, I feel that not every PAX should get a 5 just because they did not puke in your car. A lower rating of 3's & 4's do not the affect the PAX the same way they affect the driver. Hell, a 1 does not really affect the PAX. If every "average" PAX receives a 5, then how do you distinguish them from the awesome PAX that you really enjoy giving a ride to and/or they also offer a tip? If you 5 star every PAX, then you diminish the 5 star for the PAX that tipped or otherwise was outstanding.

Ultimately, however, ratings likely don't mean crap to most PAX nor do they mean much to many drivers (at least until they start approaching 4.6).


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

TK-421 said:


> In every other function or measurement in the world, a 3 or 4 would be acceptable for "doing the job" as expected. a 5 would be for something where one went above and beyond.


If your friend took a trip on American Airlines and you asked him to rate it and he gave it about a 3 out of 5, how likely would you be to want to fly on American Airlines?


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## TK-421 (Mar 3, 2017)

Coachman said:


> If your friend took a trip on American Airlines and you asked him to rate it and he gave it about a 3 out of 5, how likely would you be to want to fly on American Airlines?


You miss the point. If everyone is a 5, then how do you differentiate average from outstanding? I understand what you say about a company with a 3 vs a 5, and yes I would fly with the airline that has 5. However, if PAX that tip are the only ones receiving 5 then (using your example) wouldn't you rather pick them up know that you stood a better chance of receiving a tip. But if every one is a 5, then how do you know if they a likely to tip or not.

Look, for me it's more about not diminishing the 5 star I give to a tipping PAX. If a PAX tips and I give them a 5, are they equal to the average PAX that does not tip?

Now, for drivers, it's different because Uber says we have to earn a certain rating to maintain our driver status. If the required rating was a 3.5, I think you would see less signs asking for ratings and more drivers going the extra mile to earn higher ratings. However, as it is there is no incentive to do more because Uber has established that 4.7 is average. This is actually a detriment to the PAX as (again using your example), there will never be a driver on the road with a 3.5. Instead, all a PAX has to evaluate a driver on is a 4.7, 4.8, 4.9 or 5. Do you expect anyone to derive much from that range? Let's say Driver A does a very good job and does everything right and has a 4.8 rating; then you have Driver B who has a beat up car, is not washed, is dressed crappy, etc., but has a 4.7. Is 0.1 really the difference between these two drivers in a 5 star system?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

TK-421 said:


> You miss the point. If everyone is a 5, then how do you differentiate average from outstanding?


But everybody's not a 5.

5.0 = outstanding
4.9 = great
4.8 = better than average
4.7 = average
4.6 = below average
4.5 = horrible

What matters is the congregate rating. Not the individual ratings. Both for drivers and riders.


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## TK-421 (Mar 3, 2017)

Coachman said:


> But everybody's not a 5.
> 
> 5.0 = outstanding
> 4.9 = great
> ...


And you believe that the PAX understands/knows that 4.9 is great and 4.7 is average? I doubt it. As I mentioned before, in a 5 star rating system, 4.7 is FAR from average. Yes, in Uber Driver world I agree that it's average but to regular Joe PAX out there, 4.7 out of 5 is really good.

If you had a ping for a 4.5 PAX (horrible), do you accept it. If so, why would you pick up a horrible PAX?


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

Coachman said:


> But everybody's not a 5.
> 
> 5.0 = outstanding
> 4.9 = great
> ...


Even this scale is dependent on where one drives and who one's pax are. I pick up a lot of drunk millenials from Las Vegas nightclubs on Sat and Sun morning. I run 4.89, I bet it would be 4.95 if I wasn't carting them a mile per trip.


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## TK-421 (Mar 3, 2017)

PrestonT said:


> Even this scale is dependent on where one drives and who one's pax are. I pick up a lot of drunk millenials from Las Vegas nightclubs on Sat and Sun morning. I run 4.89, I bet it would be 4.95 if I wasn't carting them a mile per trip.


Very good point. Just as Coachman and I have apparently differing opinions on ratings, there's going to be other with varying degrees of what they feel is an acceptable rating for a driver or PAX. The factors can include regions, generation/age, individual character, and I'm sure many others.



Coachman said:


> But everybody's not a 5.
> 5.0 = outstanding
> 4.9 = great
> 4.8 = better than average
> ...


So if this is the true scale that everyone should consider when rating a driver, how does a PAX rate someone as average? There is no 4.7 stars option. So by the scale, I can't imagine what a 4 star would be in your book if a 4.5 is horrible. Again, this just goes back to the OP point that 3 or 4 should be average and not this nonsense that anything not a 5 is a failure. Not everyone gets a trophy nor is everyone a complete failure. Plenty of average folks out there doing a good job. No more, no less.


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## LA_Native (Apr 17, 2017)

Mole said:


> How I rate passengers.
> 5* Someone who tips me.
> 4* Someone who is average and asks for nothing but a safe ride.
> 3* People who expect something for free or makes me wait longer then normal or who dirties my car.
> ...


On my first day driving, I gave a ride to four (who I assume were) flight attendants; they each had roller suitcase that were about 3ft tall. I loaded (and unloaded as they would have no doubt scratched my car had they done it) three of the cases in my hatch and the fourth they laid across their laps in the back. I had to carry my bucket I use to wash my car in my lap. No tip, but none was expected.

If this were to happen again, and if I were to spot that there are four passengers with baggage, I'd likely cancel the trip. IMO, they should have called for a bigger vehicle, it was only 3.5 mile trip.


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## haji (Jul 17, 2014)

rider rating system

tipper= 5 stars
non tipper 1,2 max 3
slam the door= 1 star
keep driver waiting =1 star
luggage and no tip = 1 star
keep saying how great uber is & no tip= 1 star
leave trash =1 star
,,,,,,


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

For awhile I gave out 3 stars to pax that didn't tip based on what I thought was good advice of an Ethiopian friend (I know some friend). 
I watched my 4.9 rating plummet to 4.7 in about a month. It took me 6 months to get it up to 4.88 and even now after 50+ 5 star rides it hasn't budged an inch.
Now, I educate my pax as the opportunity presents itself about their ratings and how it may be effected by NOT tipping with some drivers. 
Now, I hand out to everyone 5.0 unless they dissed my car or they are A holes. 
I'll let the Arab, Black African and Eastern European drivers and others, hand out the 3 and 4 stars for no tips. 
And besides, all the Uber pax have been told by Uber "it's not required" so what do we expect? We need to "Re-educate" the pax regarding tips. This is our job. Shouldn't be but it is.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

TK-421 said:


> A lower rating of 3's & 4's do not the affect the PAX the same way they affect the driver.


I would argue that 75% of the PAX, have no idea what their rating is, or that it exists, or even how to look it up.

It is 5 clicks through a confusing help screen (1 click being your phone number) to find out your own rating as a rider. A lot to ask from a PAX who can't put the effort of typing the address or name of the business they are at, which directly affects their ride arriving on time, especially when they know the name of the business or exact address they are at!!!!



Elmo Burrito said:


> For awhile I gave out 3 stars to pax that didn't tip based on what I thought was good advice of an Ethiopian friend (I know some friend).
> I watched my 4.9 rating plummet to 4.7 in about a month. It took me 6 months to get it up to 4.88 and even now after 50+ 5 star rides it hasn't budged an inch.
> Now, I educate my pax as the opportunity presents itself about their ratings and how it may be effected by NOT tipping with some drivers.
> Now, I hand out to everyone 5.0 unless they dissed my car or they are A holes.
> ...


I wouldn't stress over it too much. If you have done over 500 rides, your oldest rating falls off, most likely an old 5 star rating, and then replaced with a new 5 star rating, so it will take a while for you to cycle through the next below 5 star ride and replace that with 5 star.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

TK-421 said:


> And you believe that the PAX understands/knows that 4.9 is great and 4.7 is average? I doubt it. As I mentioned before, in a 5 star rating system, 4.7 is FAR from average. Yes, in Uber Driver world I agree that it's average but to regular Joe PAX out there, 4.7 out of 5 is really good.
> 
> If you had a ping for a 4.5 PAX (horrible), do you accept it. If so, why would you pick up a horrible PAX?


What everybody here fails to grasp is that the system works without the pax having to understand it. Quite frankly, most of the drivers don't understand it, either, which is why they're always griping about it.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

I don't stress about it too much Kodyhead because I'm not going backwards and 4.88 is decent after doing 2K lifetime Uber rides. 
However, I'm pretty sure Uber will, (at their whim) filter out drivers with poor ratings. Particularly, poor acceptance and cancellation %'s depending on whether they have enough drivers or not. And, I always like having an advantage over my fellow drivers especially, when I'm competing against newbies who all start out with perfect ratings.


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## MoreTips (Feb 13, 2017)

If every "average" PAX receives a 5, then how do you distinguish them from the awesome PAX that you really enjoy giving a ride to and/or they also offer a tip? If you 5 star every PAX, then you diminish the 5 star for the PAX that tipped or otherwise was outstanding.

That's a great point. I usually rate most friendly non-problem riders 5 stars. The problem with that is it does not allow me to properly distinguish the actual tipping passenger. I will adjust my old 5's to 4's.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

MoreTips said:


> That's a great point. I usually rate most friendly non-problem riders 5 stars. The problem with that is it does not allow me to properly distinguish the actual tipping passenger. I will adjust my old 5's to 4's.


None of it makes any difference. You'll never know by looking at a rating whether any given passenger is a tipper.


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## TK-421 (Mar 3, 2017)

Coachman said:


> None of it makes any difference. You'll never know by looking at a rating whether any given passenger is a tipper.


Certainly not when every PAX gets 5 stars for simply riding in your car. Again, that's the point I believe the OP was making... average PAX deserve average scores. Not 5's and certainly not 1's. If drivers would get on the same page then maybe it would make a difference. However, this is a pipe dream and will never happen. So I digress.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

TK-421 said:


> Certainly not when every PAX gets 5 stars for simply riding in your car. Again, that's the point I believe the OP was making... average PAX deserve average scores. Not 5's and certainly not 1's. If drivers would get on the same page then maybe it would make a difference. However, this is a pipe dream and will never happen. So I digress.


Exactly, that's what I mean! The star rating for rider and pax is a sham and if I hand out 3-4 stars to pax for not tipping it's eventually going to tank my ratings so why would I do it?


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## qwerty8500 (Apr 9, 2017)

Uber passenger here. Just so all you folks know, I have indeed started to track each incremental rating and I have determined how irrational and spiteful many drivers are. Eg yesterday a driver took a wrong turn (I had put the correct address in) and still gave me a 1* rating even though I did not complain about the delay.

Anyway, I give every driver 5* except those who rate me less. To those I give 1* or 2* depending on how I feel. Enjoy!


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## Grand (Feb 23, 2016)

qwerty8500 said:


> Uber passenger here. yesterday a driver took a wrong turn (I had put the correct address in) and still gave me a 1* rating even though I did not complain about the delay.


In another post this OP rated a pax a 1 star because he (driver) made a wrong turn and the pax had the temerity to complain to the driver.
Based on his rating system, if the pax was 5 seconds late and Pax called him mr driver he would issue a MINUS 5. Very sad.

What is more disappointing is the need to rely only on 'friends' who aren't even drivers.

Just to let you know that he is NOT representative of ALL drivers. Sorry.


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## TK-421 (Mar 3, 2017)

qwerty8500 said:


> Uber passenger here. Just so all you folks know, I have indeed started to track each incremental rating and I have determined how irrational and spiteful many drivers are. Eg yesterday a driver took a wrong turn (I had put the correct address in) and still gave me a 1* rating even though I did not complain about the delay.
> 
> Anyway, I give every driver 5* except those who rate me less. To those I give 1* or 2* depending on how I feel. Enjoy!


With all respect, it seems you may be just as irrational and spiteful as those drivers you mention. First, I don't think there are really many drivers that would rate you a 1* if the trip was as easy and simple on your end. I would think long and hard about everything and really ask yourself if there was anything that could have cause the driver to rate you a 1. I'm not saying it's impossible someone would give a 1 for no reason but as was mentioned before, I don't think that's representative of all drivers out there.

Worse though, you say you'll hand out a 1 or 2 if they rate you anything less than 5. That's sounds just as irrational and spiteful as those drivers you complain about. If they give you a 4, why not at least give a 4 as well? Even then, ratings are not a tit-for-tat. They should be based on how the experience was for both parties. It's certainly possible for a PAX to be a 3 while the driver being a 5 or visa versa. When you rate a driver less than 5*, the app asks what went wrong? Where is the option that says, "The driver didn't rate me a 5." ?


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## thepanttherlady (Nov 3, 2016)

TK-421 said:


> When you rate a driver less than 5*, the app asks what went wrong? Where is the option that says, "The driver didn't rate me a 5." ?


Just playing devil's advocate here, where is the option that says "The pax didn't tip me."?


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## TK-421 (Mar 3, 2017)

thepanttherlady said:


> Just playing devil's advocate here, where is the option that says "The pax didn't tip me."?


Well, on the driver app there are no options for any reason; It's just a star rating and nothing else. If there were options and tipping was not one of them, then you would have a point.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

TK-421 said:


> Well, on the driver app there are no options for any reason; It's just a star rating and nothing else. If there were options and tipping was not one of them, then you would have a point.


I personally would love to explain why i gave a lower rating but i think it opens up the revenge 1 star factor. Some people dont do well with criticisms, especially from a customers pov.

I used to with lyft but i am pretty sure someone in india gets paid to just delete them.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

haji said:


> rider rating system
> 
> tipper= 5 stars
> non tipper 1,2 max 3
> ...


What about a tipper that slams the door?


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

I don't expect a tip from every ride. If it's 3 guys and a $2 ride from an expensive highrise I will rate them lower 2 or 3. It is'a young black lady and a $3 ride and she's waiting outside and tells me the nav to her drop off will be wrong as we get closer and shows me where to pull in she gets a 5. Easy rides where they are waiting or come out fast and don't ask for a stop is a 5 unless it's my 3rd $2 ride and they may get a 4. When I first used Uber I asked someone who used it and they said you don't need to tip and can sit in the front so I did. I only used it to pick up my car from the mechanics and one girl had a few singles between the seats so that was like her tip cup so I tipped her but I didn't know she would only get $2 for the ride and she and another driver told me they could make over $100 in a day here, that doesn't happen now with all the new drivers and lack of pax.

So I would have hated to get a 1 because I didn't know I was supposed to tip on a short ride as a pax, so I take that into consideration when driving a pax.


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