# Realistically, as a full time job, daily.



## jezhead

On average, let's say 8 hours a day mon-fri, how much can i expect to bring home per day? I know it will vary greatly, just a ballpark figure?
I'm in Toronto and awaiting activation.


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## Omair

It's not worth it full time currently. After Uber's cuts and wear and tear, you'll probably be looking at 4-6 per hour.

It's fine if you need some cash flow until you find a different full time job but I wouldn't make a career out of it.


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## Casandria

I'm not sure what the rates are in Toronto, but here, you can't live off of it unless you are single and have very few expenses.


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## Actionjax

Casandria said:


> I'm not sure what the rates are in Toronto, but here, you can't live off of it unless you are single and have very few expenses.


They aren't the worst, but still not enough to make a full time living and do it comfortably. Even with surges.


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## IndyDriver

Don't rely on Uber as FT income. You never know when they are going to cut rates by 20-40% and pull the rug out from underneath you. Plus, you can't make enough to save up and have a cushion for when this happens in your market. You can do alright during peak hours if you do it right, but thats about it.


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## McGillicutty

jezhead said:


> On average, let's say 8 hours a day mon-fri, how much can i expect to bring home per day? I know it will vary greatly, just a ballpark figure?
> I'm in Toronto and awaiting activation.


As IndyDriver mentioned above, they could cut rates again on March 1. This is not reliable full time income. The last cut was 30%. Can you absorb either a 30% cut in income over night or do you have the time to drive more to make up the difference. All of the sudden your 40hr dedication per week turns in to 57hrs to get back the income you lost because of the cut. Besides, there could be more city code changes that affect you, or your main competitor, the city bus, drops rates and steals back all your passengers.


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## UberHammer

McGillicutty said:


> As IndyDriver mentioned above, they could cut rates again on March 1. This is not reliable full time income. The last cut was 30%. Can you absorb either a 30% cut in income over night or do you have the time to drive more to make up the difference. All of the sudden your 40hr dedication per week turns in to 57hrs to get back the income you lost because of the cut. Besides, there could be more city code changes that affect you, or your main competitor, the city bus, drops rates and steals back all your passengers.


30% cut in revenue will likely result in 50%+ cut in profit for a business unless costs are reduced as well. This rate cut came with zero cuts in costs. It still costs the driver the same amount to drive a mile. Driver's are profiting at least 50% less due to this last rate cut.


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## Dontpickupdrunks

Still an extra income if you don't have much bills to pay this job will get you enough to spend unless you have a mortgage and kids to feed than you need another job, I just signed up for lyft so it depends how much you want to work and how much you need for expenses for me I don't have much expenses to worry about. So this job does it for me.


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## McGillicutty

UberHammer said:


> 30% cut in revenue will likely result in 50%+ cut in profit for a business unless costs are reduced as well. This rate cut came with zero cuts in costs. It still costs the driver the same amount to drive a mile. Driver's are profiting at least 50% less due to this last rate cut.


Good point. And anyone that increases drive time to increase revenues will see an increase in variable costs. The dicktards at Uber cleverly left that out of their email when they were so excited to tell us lower rates means more revenue.


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## IndyDriver

Dontpickupdrunks said:


> Still an extra income if you don't have much bills to pay this job will get you enough to spend unless you have a mortgage and kids to feed than you need another job, I just signed up for lyft so it depends how much you want to work and how much you need for expenses for me I don't have much expenses to worry about. So this job does it for me.


But its not actually an extra income. It appears to be an extra income because you get a deposit every week. Expense out your depreciation and maintenance costs (plus the insurance risk) and you aren't making anything. Lyft rates in Sacramento are right on the edge where you can still turn a profit if you keep empty miles to a minimum, but not much of one.


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## Dontpickupdrunks

I got a new ride so the maintenance is not much of a worry get a oil change every 4k miles change tires good to go car still under warranty up to 100k its not a career but for me it has helped me with some side cash.


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## IndyDriver

Dontpickupdrunks said:


> I got a new ride so the maintenance is not much of a worry get a oil change every 4k miles change tires good to go car still under warranty up to 100k its not a career but for me it has helped me with some side cash.


You are getting hit all the worse if it is a new car. That is when depreciation is at its highest. To each their own.


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## UberXinSoFlo

Dontpickupdrunks said:


> I got a new ride so the maintenance is not much of a worry get a oil change every 4k miles change tires good to go car still under warranty up to 100k its not a career but for me it has helped me with some side cash.


That does help in the short-term but those "free" services will run out sooner. So instead of five years of oil changes, you'll burn through them in a year with uber and then when you leave uber you'll be paying for your oil changes for the next 4 years.

I have no idea what your plan includes, but those numbers are just representative of what they would be.


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## Simon

Your selling your car's value at a profit (depending on your market and skill) to Uber.

Expect between 300 to 500 gross per week. Good luck. Don't do this full time.


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## jezhead

One thing i really don't get is there is about .5% of people here who don't complain about being a driver. If the rest of you are so ticked off at Uber then why are you still in this forum and more than likely still driving for them? Not trying to start an argument but wondering?


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## Actionjax

jezhead said:


> One thing i really don't get is there is about .5% of people here who don't complain about being a driver. If the rest of you are so ticked off at Uber then why are you still in this forum and more than likely still driving for them? Not trying to start an argument but wondering?


Uh oh......here it comes. The number 1 question that will be met with no real straight answer.


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## IndyDriver

jezhead said:


> One thing i really don't get is there is about .5% of people here who don't complain about being a driver. If the rest of you are so ticked off at Uber then why are you still in this forum and more than likely still driving for them? Not trying to start an argument but wondering?


A lot of people aren't anymore, or are milking the guarantees.

The majority of members here try to help new drivers see the ways of Uber so they don't have to go through the same BS.


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## UberXinSoFlo

jezhead said:


> One thing i really don't get is there is about .5% of people here who don't complain about being a driver. If the rest of you are so ticked off at Uber then why are you still in this forum and more than likely still driving for them? Not trying to start an argument but wondering?


Some people use this as a place to vent - think of it as a water cooler for employees.

Personally, I know the rates are too low but will keep driving until they get rid of the guarantees. I'm very happy with what I make with them, but it's still frustrating to know how low the actual rates are.

Sometimes too you have a pax experience that you just have to share, good or bad.


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## jezhead

Bit off topic (sorta) but where can i read up on this "guarantee" thing? And does it apply to every city? Toronto here


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## IndyDriver

They email them to drivers as they vary by market. @Actionjax should know best about Toronto


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## UberXinSoFlo

jezhead said:


> Bit off topic (sorta) but where can i read up on this "guarantee" thing? And does it apply to every city? Toronto here


You can read about what "guarantee" is here, I believe it holds true for Canadians too, but who knows:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarantee

Oh and some people come here for an occasional laugh also


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## Dany

Am laughing at the people keep driving 
90 c/mile


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## Actionjax

jezhead said:


> Bit off topic (sorta) but where can i read up on this "guarantee" thing? And does it apply to every city? Toronto here


It does. there was an email about it somewhere. I know there was a post here and there.



















To keep things from cooling off after the holidays, this Thursday, we're introducing round-the-clock uberX partner guarantees and lowering prices for riders to increase demand and your trips.

- Your Guaranteed Minimum Fares -

*PEAK*

$24/hr

Fri & Sat (5pm-3am)

*REGULAR*

$18/hr

Daily (6am-5pm)
Sun-Thu (5pm-Midnight)

*OFF-PEAK*

$14/hr

Mon-Thurs (Midnight-6am)
Sat-Sun (3-6am)

*Lower prices have consistently led to higher earnings for partners.* We've learned that as more riders get on the road, partners complete more trips-which translates to more money.

A 23% fare reduction resulted 
in 12% more earnings in Chicago










Partner earnings are one of Uber's highest priorities. We've found in cities around the world that high demand is good for everyone, so now we're guaranteeing it.

If you have any questions about this price change and your guarantees, contact us at [email protected] and we'll be happy to help. We'll be monitoring rates accordingly to keep your earnings high.

See you on the road,
*Team Uber*
Check your Uber Partner App tonight for your city's latest trip rates.

How to earn your guarantee










Must accept at least 90% of trips








Must average at least 1 trip/hour








Must be online for 50 minutes of every hour worked

Uber Technologies Inc. | Unsubscribe
1455 Market Street,San Francisco, CA, 94103, US

Questions? Email [email protected].


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## ubtight

There are probably five types of people on this forum:

1) Brand new drivers. (driving less than a month) looking to learn all the tricks of the trade once they realize how hard it is to make real money.
2) Current drivers. (driving from 1-6 months) they complain the loudest because they haven't ditched ride-sharing yet.
3) Former drivers. I would wager that most drivers quit within 6 months because that's when the reality sinks in: this is not a long-term profit business for drivers -- no matter how great it used to be. Former drivers frequently check in to see if the tide has changed and driving is worth it again. Expect the most honest answers from them.
4) Rideshare reps who try to use propaganda to make ridesharing seem more profitable than it is.
5) Long-term "partners" who are probably breaking hundreds of laws and violating all kinds of insurance regulations to run a profitable ride-sharing business. (Example: a "driver" who owns a car and has 3 people driving it 24/7. Or someone who registers with one car and drives an older one.) What a nightmare!

Can you make pocket-money? Yes. Can pocket-money buy a pair of pants? Usually not. Take that advice to the bank.

Actually, here's a better idea. Write up a business plan based on Uber economics. Income and expenses. Projected cash flow. Depreciation. All that jazz. Then take it to a bank and ask for a $5,000 business loan. I'd wager they would laugh in your face.

Former Driver. Loved it 'til the money dried up.


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## Actionjax

ubtight said:


> There are probably five types of people on this forum:
> 
> 1) Brand new drivers. (driving less than a month) looking to learn all the tricks of the trade once they realize how hard it is to make real money.
> 2) Current drivers. (driving from 1-6 months) they complain the loudest because they haven't ditched ride-sharing yet.
> 3) Former drivers. I would wager that most drivers quit within 6 months because that's when the reality sinks in: this is not a long-term profit business for drivers -- no matter how great it used to be. Former drivers frequently check in to see if the tide has changed and driving is worth it again. Expect the most honest answers from them.
> 4) Rideshare reps who try to use propaganda to make ridesharing seem more profitable than it is.
> 5) Long-term "partners" who are probably breaking hundreds of laws and violating all kinds of insurance regulations to run a profitable ride-sharing business. (Example: a "driver" who owns a car and has 3 people driving it 24/7. Or someone who registers with one car and drives an older one.) What a nightmare!
> 
> Can you make pocket-money? Yes. Can pocket-money buy a pair of pants? Usually not. Take that advice to the bank.
> 
> Actually, here's a better idea. Write up a business plan based on Uber economics. Income and expenses. Projected cash flow. Depreciation. All that jazz. Then take it to a bank and ask for a $5,000 business loan. I'd wager they would laugh in your face.
> 
> Former Driver. Loved it 'til the money dried up.


I work at a bank. If you want I can laugh in your face without the business plan. Will save you all that time.

On that note great points. But you forgot that there are some current drivers making some money at this thing and not complaining. You place them in #4, but fact is they are #2. We just understand there is a difference between making money and making a living. When you know what Uber is good for, then you will be a happy Uber driver.


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## ubtight

The simple math now is Uber neither makes money nor a living for legitimate drivers. 

Yet these prices sure are creating a demand for cheap car service. 

My bet would be on the driver who quits now and gets his certificate in driverless car maintenance.


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## IndyDriver

ubtight said:


> The simple math now is Uber neither makes money nor a living for legitimate drivers.
> 
> Yet these prices sure are creating a demand for cheap car service.
> 
> My bet would be on the driver who quits now and gets his certificate in driverless car maintenance.


Too soon. Driverless cars have a ton of regulation to go through before ever being adopted, say 20-30 years, and will then take at least that long if not longer to achieve widespread adoption. That's what I've read, at least.


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## ubtight

Rideshare companies are playing a dangerous game then. Banking on a horrific economy that keeps the labor market flooded with slave labor for 20 years is a poor business plan.

Better to be the company that can pour all your money into driverless car development while Lyft/Uber destroy their brands trying to keep customers hooked on a service that doesn't sustainably exist yet. Then just swoop in at the end with new shiny transpods and fresh marketing to scoop up the customers. The "Toyota" brand of personal transport.

Personally, I love the idea of clicking a button and getting in a transpod. I'm so over driving and would much rather use my phone/tablet during the entire ride for regular commutes and errand running.


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## ubtight

IndyDriver said:


> Too soon. Driverless cars have a ton of regulation to go through before ever being adopted, say 20-30 years, and will then take at least that long if not longer to achieve widespread adoption. That's what I've read, at least.


So maybe it's too soon for a certificate. But a degree in engineering might get you on one of the dev teams for either the car or infrastructure. The market will explode and car insurance will go through the rough. Who wants a human driver on the road hitting driverless cars?


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## [email protected]

Actionjax said:


> They aren't the worst, but still not enough to make a full time living and do it comfortably. Even with surges.


I do quite well


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## Actionjax

[email protected] said:


> I do quite well


Well is an open ended statement. I wouldn't be doing well at $15 per hour net all the time. So what is your gross rate per hour on the last statement.


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## Chu

once i drove 4-5 days a week for 2 weeks just to see how it will be. my calculation after ALL expences i put in my pocket around minimum wage lol. i just use it in between projects


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## FUberX

Actionjax said:


> Well is an open ended statement. I wouldn't be doing well at $15 per hour net all the time. So what is your gross rate per hour on the last statement.


$27.6 per hour.

I do this part time while in school, and I'm able to clear a decent amount weekly. I never work more than 30 hours, yet my checks are usually around. $600 something. Last I only worked like 11 or 12 hours and still made close to 300 gross.....

Idk how people are working 60+ hours a week and only seeing $200. I make that in one day on the weekend...


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## Actionjax

FUberX said:


> $27.6 per hour.
> 
> I do this part time while in school, and I'm able to clear a decent amount weekly. I never work more than 30 hours, yet my checks are usually around. $600 something. Last I only worked like 11 or 12 hours and still made close to 300 gross.....
> 
> Idk how people are working 60+ hours a week and only seeing $200. I make that in one day on the weekend...


I hear you. Some people they do the math but still I think they are very heavy on the expense side of things. They end up making their costs very inflated. So they can sell the idea you can't make money on Uber. I don't know. It also could be worse in other markets. But I do make money based on a part time thing. I posted results from last Saturday. There was a profit.


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## Casandria

The people who do this part-time because they want to are the happiest. Those who thought they were going to be able to make a killing and are doing it as their only source of income are the grumpiest. I'm somewhere in the middle. I never thought we could live off of it, but it's the only thing keeping us afloat right now. It isn't truly out only source of income because we also get social security disability and food stamps, but when you consider that we have 6 people, 4 of them teenagers, it's no where near enough. We're just riding it out until we get back on our feet and while I'm not happy with the way Uber has treated drivers, I am thankful that it's here because otherwise we'd be totally screwed and yes, I realize that's a pathetic statement to have to make.


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## Actionjax

Casandria said:


> The people who do this part-time because they want to are the happiest. Those who thought they were going to be able to make a killing and are doing it as their only source of income are the grumpiest. I'm somewhere in the middle. I never thought we could live off of it, but it's the only thing keeping us afloat right now. It isn't truly out only source of income because we also get social security disability and food stamps, but when you consider that we have 6 people, 4 of them teenagers, it's no where near enough. We're just riding it out until we get back on our feet and while I'm not happy with the way Uber has treated drivers, I am thankful that it's here because otherwise we'd be totally screwed and yes, I realize that's a pathetic statement to have to make.


I don't think its pathetic at all. You are doing what you can to survive. At least you are doing something about it. I'm sure many are doing uber for their own reasons and have their own experiences. Some people can make it work others cant. Uber is not for everyone.


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## [email protected]

Good 
point!


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## ubtight

FUberX said:


> $27.6 per hour.
> 
> I do this part time while in school, and I'm able to clear a decent amount weekly. I never work more than 30 hours, yet my checks are usually around. $600 something. Last I only worked like 11 or 12 hours and still made close to 300 gross.....
> 
> Idk how people are working 60+ hours a week and only seeing $200. I make that in one day on the weekend...


$600 gross for 30 hours. After Uber's cut that's $450. With 30 hours of driving I'm guessing you put around 10 miles on your car for every hour you drive. So knock off ($0.56 *10 miles * 30 hours) for the standard car expense deduction. Now your down to $282 a week or $9.40 an hour in Southern California. If you were in Kansas City, your pay would be even lower.

Just putting it in perspective.

(And if you think that you can operate for cheaper than the standard deduction, you're deluding yourself.)

P.S. Major in civil engineering or mechanical engineering.


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## Actionjax

ubtight said:


> $600 gross for 30 hours. After Uber's cut that's $450. With 30 hours of driving I'm guessing you put around 10 miles on your car for every hour you drive. So knock off ($0.56 *10 miles * 30 hours) for the standard car expense deduction. Now your down to $282 a week or $9.40 an hour in Southern California. If you were in Kansas City, your pay would be even lower.
> 
> Just putting it in perspective.
> 
> (And if you think that you can operate for cheaper than the standard deduction, you're deluding yourself.)
> 
> P.S. Major in civil engineering or mechanical engineering.


$0.56 a mile is not accurate to calculate true cost. Many threads have debunked that. Unless you are driving a Hummer for Uber.


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## FUberX

ubtight said:


> $600 gross for 30 hours. After Uber's cut that's $450. With 30 hours of driving I'm guessing you put around 10 miles on your car for every hour you drive. So knock off ($0.56 *10 miles * 30 hours) for the standard car expense deduction. Now your down to $282 a week or $9.40 an hour in Southern California. If you were in Kansas City, your pay would be even lower.
> 
> Just putting it in perspective.
> 
> (And if you think that you can operate for cheaper than the standard deduction, you're deluding yourself.)
> 
> P.S. Major in civil engineering or mechanical engineering.


Hey maybe you misunderstood me. I meant after putting in a litte <30 hours I usually make around $600-650 a week, after uber takes its cut.

Heck this past week, I only worked 14.5 hours and still made over $400+ after uber takes it cut.

Guess I must be doing something wrong. And 10 miles is nothing to a prius....


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## Phillyx

jezhead said:


> One thing i really don't get is there is about .5% of people here who don't complain about being a driver. If the rest of you are so ticked off at Uber then why are you still in this forum and more than likely still driving for them? Not trying to start an argument but wondering?


You will be like that very soon


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## Cartman59

If you don't try to act like your average union worker, by that I mean trying to get out of work, and bust your butt instead of trying to figure ways to game the* minimum rate system* or minimum wage angle and actually try to make money for you and promote the company instead of making them the villain you will make money. I "work" about 30 hours per week and gross a little over 1000 and take home around $675 week. I also get to log in when I want and log out when I need to pick up kids, take the dry cleaning, meet for lunch or dinner with friends, take mom to the doctors, grocery shop take a day and go on job interviews looking for a real job etc. As i said before this is a temporary fix for a full time job. I start a new job Monday, however I will work Friday and Saturday nights where I make about $325 per shift gross for 9 hours, especially with the new surge zone program. netting about $230 per night after all expenses. You have to work smart use a mini-van that you can get for about $5000 with about 90K miles. A base unit is best pw, pl, air and power windows. Then you don't care about the depreciation as much you can still sell it for $2500 at 160000 miles as long as you take care of it. Maintenance is key. you will have some repairs on a base unit they will be minimal and inexpensive. Another key: set a goal as to how much you want and need to make and at that point stop for the day. Last Sunday I had 3 xl trips in a row, one at a 1.9 surge, add in a couple more rides and I made my quota for the day in 4 hours. Also keep all of your reciepts for tax purposes even lunches etc. Just remember this isnt a long term, full time gig, but it will get you through some tough times.


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## Luberon

Cartman59 said:


> If you don't try to act like your average union worker, by that I mean trying to get out of work, and bust your butt instead of trying to figure ways to game the* minimum rate system* or minimum wage angle and actually try to make money for you and promote the company instead of making them the villain you will make money. I "work" about 30 hours per week and gross a little over 1000 and take home around $675 week. I also get to log in when I want and log out when I need to pick up kids, take the dry cleaning, meet for lunch or dinner with friends, take mom to the doctors, grocery shop take a day and go on job interviews looking for a real job etc. As i said before this is a temporary fix for a full time job. I start a new job Monday, however I will work Friday and Saturday nights where I make about $325 per shift gross for 9 hours, especially with the new surge zone program. netting about $230 per night after all expenses. You have to work smart use a mini-van that you can get for about $5000 with about 90K miles. A base unit is best pw, pl, air and power windows. Then you don't care about the depreciation as much you can still sell it for $2500 at 160000 miles as long as you take care of it. Maintenance is key. you will have some repairs on a base unit they will be minimal and inexpensive. Another key: set a goal as to how much you want and need to make and at that point stop for the day. Last Sunday I had 3 xl trips in a row, one at a 1.9 surge, add in a couple more rides and I made my quota for the day in 4 hours. Also keep all of your reciepts for tax purposes even lunches etc. Just remember this isnt a long term, full time gig, but it will get you through some tough times.


Nice one.... enjoy it while X is still $1.40 per mile in your city.


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## UberHammer

Luberon said:


> Nice one.... enjoy it while X is still $1.40 per mile in your city.


I love it when drivers in cities with higher rates come in here trying to school those in cities with rates at a fraction of theirs. Good times!


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## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> I love it when drivers in cities with higher rates come in here trying to school those in cities with rates at a fraction of theirs. Good times!


I guess its like the people in poorer cities schooling the people who are still making money. Here we go again. Everybody needs to check their own market. Plain and simple.


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## Actionjax

Luberon said:


> Nice one.... enjoy it while X is still $1.40 per mile in your city.


I think what he is saying is that he is enjoying it. When it goes then people have a new story.


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## Cartman59

I drive X and XL in Cleveland and take almost every ping. I almost didn't take a ping on Saturday late. Went from downtown to Avon Lake took 25 min. Surge was 3.7 = $100. X=$1.00 per mile. You never know where Uber's gonna take you. One other tip. Don't chase the surge under the new system. You will make way more money. Snow Saturday night. Surge was in 2-3.7 all night worked 9:30 to 2:30 home by 3:15 total gross $317. All x surge. It's all in your attitude. Also I do enjoy it. I love helping people. Why would I do something I don't enjoy. When you don't enjoy what you do you become jaded and overall just hate life. That leads to remorse, complaining and general aggravation. Resulting in gaming systems and complaining about things beyond your control on public forums. 

It seems as though the management of Uber is a little wet behind the ears. They seem to be good at promoting and building apps but really have little idea how a business should be run. I agree it seems they don't care about their employees, money does that to kids however it comes down to our choices as to what we will do. My prediction Uber will go the way of Myspace and a new king of ride sharing will emerge. Possibly LYFT, if Uber doesn't have a major shift in the way it treats it's drivers.


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## jiwagon

Invalid inquiry because can't see into future to know when rates will spontaneously substantially drop.


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## jiwagon

Learn how to properly quote if you want any respect at all.


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## Casuale Haberdasher

POST #49/ @jizzwagon: That "handle"
of yours must make your boyfriends
giggle.

Have you hooked up w/@Crusty 
Spooge Rag yet? He claims to be
"in Travis' backseat" but Richmond
SubForum is his hometurf.

Hey! It's only a 15 stop SouthWest
"Direct Flight" away!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Cartman59 said:


> If you don't try to act like your average union worker, by that I mean trying to get out of work, and bust your butt instead of trying to figure ways to game the* minimum rate system* or minimum wage angle and actually try to make money for you and promote the company instead of making them the villain you will make money. I "work" about 30 hours per week and gross a little over 1000 and take home around $675 week. I also get to log in when I want and log out when I need to pick up kids, take the dry cleaning, meet for lunch or dinner with friends, take mom to the doctors, grocery shop take a day and go on job interviews looking for a real job etc. As i said before this is a temporary fix for a full time job. I start a new job Monday, however I will work Friday and Saturday nights where I make about $325 per shift gross for 9 hours, especially with the new surge zone program. netting about $230 per night after all expenses. You have to work smart use a mini-van that you can get for about $5000 with about 90K miles. A base unit is best pw, pl, air and power windows. Then you don't care about the depreciation as much you can still sell it for $2500 at 160000 miles as long as you take care of it. Maintenance is key. you will have some repairs on a base unit they will be minimal and inexpensive. Another key: set a goal as to how much you want and need to make and at that point stop for the day. Last Sunday I had 3 xl trips in a row, one at a 1.9 surge, add in a couple more rides and I made my quota for the day in 4 hours. Also keep all of your reciepts for tax purposes even lunches etc. Just remember this isnt a long term, full time gig, but it will get you through some tough times.


OMG, A $5000, 100,000 mile mini van actually qualifies for XL Fares ?!?! Thats sick, ur riders must PUKE! & now they're even letting in 15 year old cars! Once classy Uber has really gone to shit!


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Actionjax said:


> $0.56 a mile is not accurate to calculate true cost. Many threads have debunked that. Unless you are driving a Hummer for Uber.


Yes, Im driving a nice, new, average american car, and my actual cost per mile is about $.60. It doesnt take a "hummer".
Uber has really gone to shit that everybody needs a stupid frickin Prius! Pax absolutely hate them, and Ur still losing $!
The lowest per mile op cost anybody says on here is 30cents, and thats still a loser in every market below $1.20/mile! Yes, Im pissed, cuz a year ago at $2/mile you could actually give good service and make a profit. Now, that window has closed, and its a loser at base rates, in any market (outside of selective surging). If you think your making $, its all just a grand illusion! Travis is Evil, and just prostituting his drivers, and ur all just suckers if ur still driving!


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## Lidman

Agreed. Part time would be much more suitable. That's why I only do LYFT like maybe once a week or every other week. I''ve gotten letters from them trying to get me to do more hours. Though they haven't threatened to deactivate me, I'm still going to keep to the same schedule.


----------



## Rich Brunelle

Please do not start that again. Unless at the end of the year you are going to use a different figure than the government allowed 0.56 do not even bring it into the conversation. We had enough of Uber Logic last night for all of us.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Dontpickupdrunks said:


> I got a new ride so the maintenance is not much of a worry get a oil change every 4k miles change tires good to go car still under warranty up to 100k its not a career but for me it has helped me with some side cash.


Yup, ur not "earning" any $, Ur just selling little pieces of ur car (@ a 50% discount) with every ride, to the Evil Travis! :-(


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Simon said:


> Your selling your car's value at a profit (depending on your market and skill) to Uber.
> 
> Expect between 300 to 500 gross per week. Good luck. Don't do this full time.


Huh? Ur selling your car @ a 50% discount!
In little pieces to the Evil Travis!
Uber is now a LOSER no matter what!


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

jezhead said:


> One thing i really don't get is there is about .5% of people here who don't complain about being a driver. If the rest of you are so ticked off at Uber then why are you still in this forum and more than likely still driving for them? Not trying to start an argument but wondering?


Just trying to "save" one Uber driver at a time!
All the smart drivers have quit Uber, and only drive for Lyft now.
Most of us are still here cuz we are hoping that maybe Uber rates go back up, then we can resume driving. The only ones still driving for Uber at these rates are the desperately unemployed! They are actualy losing $, but are in such desperate need of cash flow, that they are selling little pieces of their car @ a 50% discount, not "earning" any real $.
We are just pissed that what looked like a potential opportunity a year ago was all just a big manipulative lie! Now you have to drive an old beater van, or a frickin Prius just to break even!
Yes, Im pissed, cuz a year ago at $2/mile you could actually give good service with a nice car, and make a profit. Now, that window has closed, and its a loser at base rates, in any market (outside of selective surging). If you think your making $, its all just a grand illusion! Travis Uber is Evil, and just prostituting his drivers, and ur all just suckers if ur still driving!
Just say no! STOP THE INSANITY!


----------



## Simon

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Huh? Ur selling your car @ a 50% discount!
> In little pieces to the Evil Travis!
> Uber is now a LOSER no matter what!


That depends on your market. In my market there is still profit.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Simon said:


> That depends on your market. In my market there is still profit.


Really ... Its all just a "Grand Illusion"!
If there was a real honest net profit, you wouldnt have to say "selling ur car" at all!


----------



## Simon

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Really ... Its all just a "Grand Illusion"!


No it really is.. we are at 1.50 per mile. Depending on the vehicle you can profit about a buck a mile.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Simon said:


> No it really is.. we are at 1.50 per mile. Depending on the vehicle you can profit about a buck a mile.


Aaaah ... Not possible. (Outside of major surging)
$1.50 x .8 = $1.2 x 50% "dead miles" (pretty much standard) = 60 cents/mile.
True total Operating costs are between $.30-$.50/mile, so ur barely above break even!
No where near $1/mile! Ur not counting ur unpaid miles.
"Dead miles" are all the miles u drive without a paying fare, dont try to tell me you dont have any!
Everyone on here agrees that 50% is about right. At the end of the day, ur lucky to net about 15cents/mile. :-(
Now you see the ... "Grand illusion" :-(
Sorry for the brutal reality check, Im just trying to save one Uber driver at a time!
Uber is a loser! And ur in the highest remaining market in the country!
Just wait til they cut you to$.75/mile! Arrrrg


----------



## Cartman59

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> OMG, A $5000, 100,000 mile mini van actually qualifies for XL Fares ?!?! Thats sick, ur riders must PUKE! & now they're even letting in 15 year old cars! Once classy Uber has really gone to shit!


Hey drama queen have you seen the vehicle? it's a 2007 caravan base. I now see that you are a troll and here just stir up crap. Do you work for a taxi company or are you here just to make others as miserable as you LOL at least we know what were dealing with now. You love to complain and see the negative side. Why are you still commenting here? Haha


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Cartman59 said:


> Hey drama queen have you seen the vehicle? it's a 2007 caravan base. I now see that you are a troll and here just stir up crap. Do you work for a taxi company or are you here just to make others as miserable as you LOL at least we know what were dealing with now. You love to complain and see the negative side. Why are you still commenting here? Haha


Just pissed that once classy Uber has gone to shit, and now can only employ the dregs driving shitty old high mileage beaters. Its a shame, they are reeeeally scraping the bottom of the barrell now! LOL I'm just trying to save one ignorant Uber driver at a time!


----------



## Cartman59

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Just pissed that once classy Uber ha. gone to shit, and now can only employ the dregs driving shitty old high mileage beaters. Its a shame, they are reeeeally scraping the bottom of the barrell now! LOL I'm just trying to save one ignorant Uber driver at a time!


Why would you be pissed about Uber or anything they do? Just let it go you aren't saving anyone..... Don't worry about them. Worry about you. Mine is a really nice vehicle, no dents or rust, clean immaculate interior but what can Uber expect? I drive x and xl. I'm not going to take a loan on a vehicle at $1 or even $2 per mile, would you? I'm also not a dreg my customers compliment the cleanliness and good smell all the time. It's how much pride you take in yourself and the impression you want to make. However if you pay Walmart rates you are going to get a lower standard of vehicles, service etc. You can't make a payment on a new car and do this business. Seriously though relax it's beyond your control


----------



## scrurbscrud

Casandria said:


> The people who do this part-time because they want to are the happiest. Those who thought they were going to be able to make a killing and are doing it as their only source of income are the grumpiest. I'm somewhere in the middle. I never thought we could live off of it, but it's the only thing keeping us afloat right now. It isn't truly out only source of income because we also get social security disability and food stamps, but when you consider that we have 6 people, 4 of them teenagers, it's no where near enough. We're just riding it out until we get back on our feet and while I'm not happy with the way Uber has treated drivers, I am thankful that it's here because otherwise we'd be totally screwed and yes, I realize that's a pathetic statement to have to make.


Pretty sure if your rate dropped from $1.20 a mile currently in San Antonio to less than a buck a mile you'd feel much differently about Ubering. The math doing UberX at $1.40 was not worth it for me, but I have an XL vehicle and tolerated it for a short time. Once it hit below that there were exactly *ZERO ways to justify doing it.*


----------



## scrurbscrud

Cartman59 said:


> Why would you be pissed about Uber or anything they do? Just let it go you aren't saving anyone..... Don't worry about them. Worry about you. Mine is a really nice vehicle, no dents or rust, clean immaculate interior but what can Uber expect? I drive x and xl. I'm not going to take a loan on a vehicle at $1 or even $2 per mile, would you? I'm also not a dreg my customers compliment the cleanliness and good smell all the time. It's how much pride you take in yourself and the impression you want to make. However if you pay Walmart rates you are going to get a lower standard of vehicles, service etc. You can't make a payment on a new car and do this business. Seriously though relax it's beyond your control


Easy to say when you're still at $1.40 a mile in Akron. What you should be hearing is what happened to everyone else here where it's now less than $1. a mile. I begrudgingly did UberX at a buck forty as well, but knew it was a zero profit/zero wage/zero anything for me in an XL. Took about a week to figure it out. I only tolerated it because there was frequent surges and you just had to be in the game to play. Driver saturation eliminated the surge. Then the price cutz hit.

Now it's just out of the question to even drive.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Dany said:


> Am laughing at the people keep driving
> 90 c/mile


I think we all know this UberX at current rates is ONLY being floated by guarantees. Anyone who isn't taking them is not driving OR if they are they are colossally stupid and won't last long anyway.


----------



## Casandria

scrurbscrud said:


> Pretty sure if your rate dropped from $1.20 a mile currently in San Antonio to less than a buck a mile you'd feel much differently about Ubering. The math doing UberX at $1.40 was not worth it for me, but I have an XL vehicle and tolerated it for a short time. Once it hit below that there were exactly *ZERO ways to justify doing it.*


We only kept doing it after the rate cuts because of the guarantees, but then they introduced Select and we were finally able to get a car that fits all of us so between Select and XL, it's working for now. They may be totally gone here by Sunday and then it will all be moot.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Casandria said:


> *We only kept doing it* after the rate cuts *because of the guarantees,* but then they introduced Select and we were finally able to get a car that fits all of us so between Select and XL, it's working for now. They may be totally gone here by Sunday and then it will all be moot.


*
That's the only way to justify it. * I hope you understand that *without that*, it will only hasten driver financial demise. Which seems to be the hell bent direction Uber is on to.


----------



## Actionjax

There is still profit in my market. Again what most people need to realize is its individual. When you say it sucks. It sucks for you. Your costs are your own. That doesn't make them right for everyone else.

Do your own math.


----------



## Casandria

If there were another way for us to keep our head above water right now, I would gladly take it. I'm growing very weary of driving and the few weekend nights I tested out driving were horrible. I'm going back to only days and letting my husband handle the nights.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> There is still profit in my market. Again what most people need to realize is its individual. When you say it sucks. It sucks for you. Your costs are your own. That doesn't make them right for everyone else.
> 
> Do your own math.


Your math justifications ALWAYS toss in surges, so get real.

Exactly zero of us have issues with surge when the prices are THEN appropriate. *At your rate of a buck 30 a mile you ain't making SQUAT either.*

Every driver has costs. Whether they are 30 cents a mile or 57.5 cents a mile the spread is not that large.

At a buck 30 a mile you are netting 52 cents a mile using a 50/50 paid to unpaid ratio.

Now subtract your costs. 
*
You want to say you're making BIG MONEY driving for a net 22 cents a mile? LOL.*

*Drive 200 miles and 'net' $44?!*

*Kiss my ass.*


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> Your math justifications ALWAYS toss in surges, so get real.
> 
> Exactly zero of us have issues with surge when the prices are THEN appropriate. *At your rate of a buck 30 a mile you ain't making SQUAT either.*
> 
> Every driver has costs. Whether they are 30 cents a mile or 57.5 cents a mile the spread is not that large.
> 
> At a buck 30 a mile you are netting 52 cents a mile using a 50/50 paid to unpaid ratio.
> 
> Now subtract your costs.
> *
> You want to say you're making BIG MONEY driving for a net 22 cents a mile? LOL.*
> 
> *Drive 200 miles and 'net' $44?!*
> 
> *Kiss my ass.*


I have a few posts up showing my math. Almost none are in surges. I base my math on REAL situations. Not made up ones. Why don't you go read them and get back to me if you feel they are wrong.

Fact is you can't paint a blanket statement that you can't make money on Uber. Many show you can. But its dependant on your market and doing it smart.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> I have a few posts up showing my math. Almost none are in surges. I base my math on REAL situations. Not made up ones. Why don't you go read them and get back to me if you feel they are wrong.


I just showed you the 'real math' at $1.30 per paid mile. I have no reason whatsoever to not believe real math. How about you?

Are you really going to pimp me about how much money you are making at 22 cents a mile after costs?

Spare me.


> Fact is you can't paint a blanket statement that you can't make money on Uber. Many show you can. But its dependant on your market and doing it smart.


You can smart whatever direction you want to spin. I'm saying that MATH NEVER LIES.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Simon said:


> No it really is.. we are at 1.50 per mile. Depending on the vehicle you can profit about a buck a mile.


At a buck 5o a mile here is real world math:

$1.50 x .80 = $1.20 net to driver after Uber's cut.

Using a 50/50 paid to unpaid miles ratio you are receiving 6o cents per mile driven.

The IRS allows 57 cents per mile for driver costs. It looks more like 3 CENTS to me.

Does that look like a buck a mile profit to you? Seriously?

The only sad things to observe in these matters is how poorly drivers calculate math reality.

Was I making anything at a buck forty a mile? No. Not one dime.

Now how many drivers will tell you that they are making money at even less than a buck forty?

Just about all of them.

It's really just pathetic to observe. Tragic.


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> I just showed you the 'real math' at $1.30 per paid mile. I have no reason whatsoever to not believe real math. How about you?
> 
> Are you really going to pimp me about how much money you are making at 22 cents a mile after costs?
> 
> Spare me.
> 
> You can smart whatever direction you want to spin. I'm saying that MATH NEVER LIES.


Then I would say based on your calculations you are screwed. And with mine I'm fine. Guess I'm doing just fine then and have proven it again and again.

This is where I say go contour own calculations and make your own determination. I'm not going out preaching you can make money on uber no matter what. But you are preaching you cant. And you have lots of excuses to back that up for the rest of us.

You are right THE MATH NEVER LIES


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> At a buck 5o a mile here is real world math:
> 
> $1.50 x .80 = $1.20 net to driver after Uber's cut.
> 
> Using a 50/50 paid to unpaid miles ratio you are receiving 6o cents per mile driven.
> 
> The IRS allows 57 cents per mile for driver costs. It looks more like 3 CENTS to me.
> 
> Does that look like a buck a mile profit to you? Seriously?
> 
> The only sad things to observe in these matters is how poorly drivers calculate math reality.
> 
> Was I making anything at a buck forty a mile? No. Not one dime.
> 
> Now how many drivers will tell you that they are making money at even less than a buck forty?
> 
> Just about all of them.
> 
> It's really just pathetic to observe. Tragic.


It is tragic watching you spin like this. Lets now use real numbers. Not tae the east way out with IRS Numbers. It been proven by many here to be inaccurate for calculating.


----------



## Cartman59

scrurbscrud said:


> Easy to say when you're still at $1.40 a mile in Akron. What you should be hearing is what happened to everyone else here where it's now less than $1. a mile. I begrudgingly did UberX at a buck forty as well, but knew it was a zero profit/zero wage/zero anything for me in an XL. Took about a week to figure it out. I only tolerated it because there was frequent surges and you just had to be in the game to play. Driver saturation eliminated the surge. Then the price cutz hit.
> 
> Now it's just out of the question to even drive.


i'm in Cleveland. What happened to everyone else? Uber changed it's policy if it doesn't work for you why are you even concerned about this go on to the next big thing. This doesn't work on a full time basis until you get to a $5 pick up and 2.50 to 3.00 per mile because we aren't getting an allowance for driving to pick up our pax and driving back to the busy areas. I do it because my company closed 2 months ago. and I need the cash flow. I start a new job on Monday. I will still drive the morning surge and an airport ride on the way home and Friday and Sat nights. There is always Lyft.


----------



## scrurbscrud

This week I just had my best net to me ever for driving Lyft. My take home pay, before any of my hard costs, was $3.48 per PAID MILE. That included a power driver bonus of 20% and tips that averaged 13% of my total fares and a substantial amount of surge/prime time and a fair portion of PLUS fares.

I think I actually made a PROFIT. I know for a fact I received less than half of that amount per mile driven or $1.74 per driven mile. My COST is 57 cents per driven mile.

Did I make a PROFIT?

Yes. Was it a LOT? No. I worked my ass off for just shy of 72 hours.


Actionjax said:


> It is tragic watching you spin like this. Lets now use real numbers. Not tae the east way out with IRS Numbers. It been proven by many here to be inaccurate for calculating.


We all know your rosy numbers include *SURGE.* It has to to justify actually making anything *because--->*

At the standard rate of UberX in Toronto *real math says you ain't making SQUAT.*


----------



## scrurbscrud

Cartman59 said:


> i'm in Cleveland. What happened to everyone else? Uber changed it's policy if it doesn't work for you why are you even concerned about this go on to the next big thing.


When people get ****ed over they tend to share the information so that others don't. You got a problem with that format? Then don't read because you might not like to do the math. Uber on in math denial if it suits you. More power to math blindness. 


> *This doesn't work on a full time basis* until you get to a $5 pick up and 2.50 to 3.00 per mile because we aren't getting an allowance for driving to pick up our pax and driving back to the busy areas. I do it because my company closed 2 months ago. and *I need the cash flow*. I start a new job on Monday. *I will still drive *the morning *surge* and an airport ride on the way home and Friday and Sat nights. There is always Lyft.


Yeah. I think we all get the picture. The point in the majority of these simple math exercises is to show other drivers that they are NOT making money at less than $1.40 per paid mile.

*Not one single penny.* And it's also to counter the numerous Uber pimps that come here trumpeting about how great they are doing at $1.30 a mile like our cotton headed buddy from Toronto.


----------



## Cartman59

scrurbscrud said:


> This week I just had my best net to me ever for driving Lyft. My take home pay, before any of my hard costs, was $3.48 per PAID MILE. That included a power driver bonus of 20% and tips that averaged 13% of my total fares and a substantial amount of surge/prime time.
> 
> I think I actually made a PROFIT. I know for a fact I received less than half of that amount per mile driven or $1.74 per driven mile. My COST is 57 cents per driven mile.
> 
> Did I make a PROFIT?
> 
> Yes. Was it a LOT? No. I worked my ass off for just shy of 72 hours.
> 
> We all know your rosy numbers include *SURGE.* It has to to justify actually making anything *because--->*
> 
> At the standard rate of UberX in Toronto *real math says you ain't making SQUAT.*


72 hours holy crap


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> It is tragic watching you spin like this. Lets now use real numbers. Not tae the east way out with IRS Numbers. It been proven by many here to be inaccurate for calculating.


I already ran the numbers just for you using a cost basis of 30 cents a mile, showing you black on white that you make 22 cents a mile on std. UberX rates in Toronto. Did you miss it?


----------



## scrurbscrud

Cartman59 said:


> 72 hours holy crap


That's full time CAB DRIVER reality if you want to make a MINOR living at this gig.


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> This week I just had my best net to me ever for driving Lyft. My take home pay, before any of my hard costs, was $3.48 per PAID MILE. That included a power driver bonus of 20% and tips that averaged 13% of my total fares and a substantial amount of surge/prime time.
> 
> I think I actually made a PROFIT. I know for a fact I received less than half of that amount per mile driven or $1.74 per driven mile. My COST is 57 cents per driven mile.
> 
> Did I make a PROFIT?
> 
> Yes. Was it a LOT? No. I worked my ass off for just shy of 72 hours.
> 
> We all know your rosy numbers include *SURGE.* It has to to justify actually making anything *because--->*
> 
> At the standard rate of UberX in Toronto *real math says you ain't making SQUAT.*


Believe what you want. I posted my numbers in another thread. If you were that good with math you could see that surge was not a factor. If I got a surge fare I called it out. But a single fare at 1.2x wont effect the numbers. Average after expense in my area was just over $13 an hour. That was during traditionally a non busy time. I posted Uber email to back that up.

I have thrown my number in to help others. Others have provided real calculations. I think most agree on the side of DO YOUR OWN MATH. Those who make blanket statements for others either good or bad are not really helping anyone.

You can either read into the logic or you can just stick your head in the sand.


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> I already ran the numbers just for you using a cost basis of 30 cents a mile, showing you black on white that you make 22 cents a mile on std. UberX rates in Toronto. Did you miss it?


My cost is $0.32 per km and your calculations are not valid. You are looking at mileage only and not adding the $2.75 base to every fare or the $0.25 per min time. Some have calculated the km rate at over $3 when those have come into play. Where there are short pings and lots of small runs.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> Believe what you want. I posted my numbers in another thread. If you were that good with math you could see that surge was not a factor. If I got a surge fare I called it out. But a single fare at 1.2x wont effect the numbers. Average after expense in my area was just over $13 an hour. That was during traditionally a non busy time. I posted Uber email to back that up.


The math doesn't LIE Actionjax. *At $1.30 per paid mile you make 22 cents per mile using a very slim 30 cents a mile cost number.*



> I have thrown my number in to help others.


No, you are claiming a non math reality.



> Others have provided real calculations. I think most agree on the side of DO YOUR OWN MATH. Those who make blanket statements for others either good or bad are not really helping anyone.


The general 'informed' consensus here is that real driver hard costs run from 30 cents to 57 cents, unless you are Randy Shear in which case you can cut it down to 20 cents a mile by buying a $2000 car, salvage all your repair parts at night from the junkyard, not calculate anything for time spent doing perpetual repairs, etc etc.

But the cost reality remains a reality for every driver. It's not that big of a spread.


> You can either read into the logic or you can just stick your head in the sand.


Math don't lie.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> My cost is $0.32 per km and your calculations are not valid. You are looking at mileage only and not adding the $2.75 base to every fare or the $0.25 per min time. Some have calculated the km rate at over $3 when those have come into play. Where there are short pings and lots of small runs.


Then your numbers are even worse as that is about 53 cents per mile. You are officially losing money at $1.30 per mile Ubering.


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> The math doesn't LIE Actionjax. *At $1.30 per paid mile you make 22 cents per mile using a very slim 30 cents a mile cost number.*
> 
> No, you are claiming a non math reality.
> 
> The general 'informed' consensus here is that real driver hard costs run from 30 cents to 57 cents, unless you are Randy Shear in which case you can cut it down to 20 cents a mile by buying a $2000 car, salvage all your repair parts at night from the junkyard, not calculate anything for time spent doing perpetual repairs, etc etc.
> 
> But the cost reality remains a reality for every driver. It's not that big of a spread.
> 
> Math don't lie.


Not to. worried about how you are doing it. My numbers are up black and white with real figures. People can make their own opinions. If they are wrong you tell me where they are false. I'm listening.


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> Then your numbers are even worse as that is about 53 cents per mile. You are officially losing money at $1.30 per mile Ubering.


Go look at the numbers again. Doesn't show that. Lets come back to reality again.


----------



## Casandria

I can't decide if this is an exciting thread (watching you two bicker back and forth) or a boring one (way too many numbers for my taste). I guess it's not unlike staring at a wreck since I'm still watching while I drink my coffee.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> Go look at the numbers again. Doesn't show that. Lets come back to reality again.


Reality just sat in your lap and you missed it.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> Go look at the numbers again. Doesn't show that. Lets come back to reality again.





Casandria said:


> I can't decide if this is an exciting thread (watching you two bicker back and forth) or a boring one (way too many numbers for my taste). I guess it's not unlike staring at a wreck since I'm still watching while I drink my coffee.


There really is no bickering when it comes to simple math. Any half wit can run the same calcs and come up with the same numbers.


----------



## NightRider

Actionjax said:


> Well is an open ended statement. I wouldn't be doing well at $15 per hour net all the time. So what is your gross rate per hour on the last statement.


..and here we go again! Hey kid, *please *stop the ride, I want to get off! (oh hell, who am I kidding.. I love this place and each and every one of you! )


----------



## Casandria

Perhaps, but you're a bit of an ass about it.


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> Reality just sat in your lap and you missed it.


Yep that's proving your point alright. Let me know when you got something logical to say against my numbers. Till then I'm making money in my market. With the math to prove it.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Casandria said:


> Perhaps, but you're a bit of an ass about it.


I don't tolerate Uber shills who lie about math reality. And there are plenty of 'em.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> Yep that's proving your point alright. Let me know when you got something logical to say against my numbers. Till then I'm making money in my market. With the math to prove it.


You stuck a knife in your own numbers. If your costs are 53 cents a mile and your pay is $1.30 per mile you are factually losing money driving.

$1.30 x .8 = $1.04 a mile. A 50/50 ratio brings that down to 52 cents a mile and your costs are 53 cents a mile.

The only leg your profit has left to stand on is the drop/minute rate or the claim that you have no or fewer dead miles.


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> You stuck a knife in your own numbers. If your costs are 53 cents a mile and your pay is $1.30 per mile you are factually losing money driving.
> 
> $1.30 x .8 = $1.04 a mile. A 50/50 ratio brings that down to 52 cents a mile and your costs are 53 cents a mile.
> 
> The only leg your profit has left to stand on is the drop/minute rate or the claim that you have no or fewer dead miles.


I don't pay 0.53 per mile. Try $0.32 per mile. I work in real numbers not made up ones. And lately most nights I have been more paid to dead on longer hauls. Short hauls its a 50/50 but get the 2.75 drop on every one. So if you want try your math again. But lets throw some real variables in there.

100 miles at $1.20 per mile
20 trips

We can use your 50/50 split

5 hours worked with half of that on a fare at $0.25 per min.

Tell me I'm at a loss when you run that math even without surges.


----------



## NightRider

scrurbscrud said:


> You stuck a knife in your own numbers. If your costs are 53 cents a mile and your pay is $1.30 per mile you are factually losing money driving.
> 
> $1.30 x .8 = $1.04 a mile. A 50/50 ratio brings that down to 52 cents a mile and your costs are 53 cents a mile.
> 
> The only leg your profit has left to stand on is the drop/minute rate or the claim that you have no or fewer dead miles.


GUYS! I think if both of you gave a little in your stances you might realize that there is no major argument between the two of you.

This whole repetitive cycle invariably starts out with some third party asking the standard "I see x on this forum but also y.. If x is right why do you still do this for a living? If y is right why does everyone attack them for posting their numbers?" So, there you have a challenge thrown down.

What follows is an argument between two people who if they would sit face to face and have a conversation on the subject over a beer would end up besties once they realize they both understand how the numbers work and were using different definitions of making "BIG BUCKS" and other parameters that turn the argument into a more level comparison of the same factual data once you remove egos and expectations due to historical/old earnings.

Things that get thrown in like "your number depend on surge" versus "your numbers don't take into account the base/drop..." only further advance this notion that we're all just being played by the third party that asks the ****ing stupid "well, why are you doing this then, becuase you must be an idiot..." challenge.

I don't usually like to date myself this way, but, "Can't we all just get along?" You know arguing amongst ourselves is like mana from heaven to Uber.


----------



## UberHammer

I looked at Actionjax's numbers, and they were mathematically correct.

If I recall correctly, he had a much higher than 50% billable to dead mile ratio. I questioned if that actually occurred if he was in fact having the majority of his pings be 10 to 15 minutes away. Really, it's not the minutes, but the miles in that travel that effect the ratio. So if they were 10 to 15 minutes, but with low miles (KMs in his case), then yes he could have had the high billable to dead ratio. I get those high ratio hours, nights and weeks too sometimes. I also get low ratio hours, nights and weeks too. Overall they seem to average out to 50%, and many others here corroborate that being typical, but again it's very specific to the market conditions. Comparing my pings in Columbus to what a driver gets in Manhattan New York is literally comparing oranges to the Big Apple, and non-productive.

That all being said, a higher billable to dead mile ratio is INCREDIBLY beneficial to overall profitability. In my numbers, when I reduce dead miles from 50% to 40%, I increase profitability 43%!!!!

This is why drivers ignore far away pings. By doing so, they are reducing their dead mile ratio significantly, which produces a HUGE increase in profit. If you could just ignore some jobs, and produce a 43% raise in pay by doing it, wouldn't you do it? Of course you would. This is why "smart" drivers ignore pings far away.


----------



## NightRider

UberHammer said:


> UberCaptain James T. Kirk -
> "What? They're pinging me from 25 light years away just to go out there and beam him from the surface to the orbiting space station? Oh give me a break."
> [CANCEL]
> <goes offline>


LOVE LOVE LOVE it!


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> I don't pay 0.53 per mile. Try $0.32 per mile. I work in real numbers not made up ones.


Was using your number:
*
"My cost is $0.32 per km"*

If you meant 32 cents per MILE then you are making about 22 CENTS per mile, hence my prior observation about driving 200 miles for $44.


> And lately most nights I have been more paid to dead on longer hauls.


Yeah, we hear the lower dead miles claim frequently too.

Even though your drop rate at a net $2.20 is awesome by most UberX stds in the U.S. it still isn't a factor on min. fares. If you did 20 fares in a long night it's still $44.

And the per minute rate is almost a non-starter. Even at an again whopping 25 cents a mile it still amounts to $6. an hour when the dust settles.

So, the consensus for you would have to be a (supposed) profit over costs of 22 cents per mile with a kicker of $44 for drop fees and $6 an hour for your time pay.

200 miles, an 8 hour shift and 20 trips would theoretically net you a grand $136. or *$17 an hour when the dust settles.* Using the IRS standard rate for mileage here *it would only be $6.25 an hour.*


----------



## Actionjax

NightRider said:


> GUYS! I think if both of you gave a little in your stances you might realize that there is no major argument between the two of you.
> 
> This whole repetitive cycle invariably starts out with some third party asking the standard "I see x on this forum but also y.. If x is right why do you still do this for a living? If y is right why does everyone attack them for posting their numbers?" So, there you have a challenge thrown down.
> 
> What follows is an argument between two people who if they would sit face to face and have a conversation on the subject over a beer would end up besties once they realize they both understand how the numbers work and were using different definitions of making "BIG BUCKS" and other parameters that turn the argument into a more level comparison of the same factual data once you remove egos and expectations due to historical/old earnings.
> 
> Things that get thrown in like "your number depend on surge" versus "your numbers don't take into account the base/drop..." only further advance this notion that we're all just being played by the third party that asks the ****ing stupid "well, why are you doing this then, becuase you must be an idiot..." challenge.
> 
> I don't usually like to date myself this way, but, "Can't we all just get along?" You know arguing amongst ourselves is like mana from heaven to Uber.


Thanks for stepping in. You are quite right. I guess when I'm being called out that my numbers are wrong I was saying show me.

There was no name calling on my side and I was not getting heated about this. I will continue to run my numbers and post to those who care to look. And I will continue to drive.

I think what this site tends to breed is a one size fits all mentality. And the hardships others are facing tends to try and rally the come join my side mentality. Even if that person is not invested with that same issue. And when they don't they are branded a traitor to the drivers plight.

Then again I may be just overdramatic.


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberHammer said:


> I looked at Actionjax's numbers, and they were mathematically correct.
> 
> If I recall correctly, he had a much higher than 50% billable to dead mile ratio. I questioned if that actually occurred if he was in fact having the majority of his pings be 10 to 15 minutes away. Really, it's not the minutes, but the miles in that travel that effect the ratio. So if they were 10 to 15 minutes, but with low miles (KMs in his case), then yes he could have had the high billable to dead ratio. I get those high ratio hours, nights and weeks too sometimes. I also get low ratio hours, nights and weeks too. *Overall they seem to average out to 50%, *


*That's a fair number imho.* Though I would understand that some people living in hot zones and not doing any driving outside of them might notch it down SLIGHTLY, but not that much. And saying that pax will never take you out of a hot ping area just isn't credible. Many of them do and you have to travel back dead.


> and many others here corroborate that being typical, but again it's very specific to the market conditions. Comparing my pings in Columbus to what a driver gets in Manhattan New York is literally comparing oranges to the Big Apple, and non-productive.


I can only imagine the dead TIME factor in NYC. It has to be horrific getting around in that slow traffic.


> That all being said, a higher billable to dead mile ratio is INCREDIBLY beneficial to overall profitability. In my numbers, when I reduce dead miles from 50% to 40%, I increase profitability 43%!!!!


We all tend to look at the days when it's better and go wow. But from a full time perspective reality is 50/50. I doubt very many truthful drivers would say otherwise.


> This is why drivers ignore far away pings. By doing so, they are reducing their dead mile ratio significantly, which produces a HUGE increase in profit. If you could just ignore some jobs, and produce a 43% raise in pay by doing it, wouldn't you do it? Of course you would. This is why "smart" drivers ignore pings far away.


I think drivers get played on those long distance pings by both Uber and Lyft. If we have to maintain a 90% acceptance ratio and turn down just a couple long distance pings that automatically keeps us driving til we hit 20 fares to keep the acceptance ratio up where it needs to be for guarantees. And I do get at least 2 of these everyday, just like clockwork.


----------



## Uberdawg

The reality of this is everyone's situatiom is entirely different unless you are driving in the same city for the same rates with the same exact vehicle. Everyone's cost is not the same. The guy driving the mini van has totally different cost structure than someone driving a Tahoe or a Prius. 

The point is, run your own numbers, just be real about them. Gas is not your only expense, depreciation does exist regardless if you ever sell your car, tires, brakes, oil changes are real costs even if you think you have to do them anyway etc....

I never believe anyone who says you can't make anything and I never believe someone who says they are knocking back $25 an hour.


----------



## scrurbscrud

NightRider said:


> GUYS! I think if both of you gave a little in your stances you might realize that there is no major argument between the two of you.
> 
> This whole repetitive cycle invariably starts out with some third party asking the standard "I see x on this forum but also y.. If x is right why do you still do this for a living? If y is right why does everyone attack them for posting their numbers?" So, there you have a challenge thrown down.


Most of the nay sayers here are just saying don't do X std. rates *and don't do so themselves.*

Using the 'if you don't like it, quit' has already been done by anyone who does the math. UberXers are certainly welcome to lose their asses by their choice.


> What follows is an argument between two people who if they would sit face to face and have a conversation on the subject over a beer would end up besties once they realize they both understand how the numbers work and were using different definitions of making "BIG BUCKS" and other parameters that turn the argument into a more level comparison of the same factual data once you remove egos and expectations due to historical/old earnings.


There really is no argument available to claim drivers make money at less than $1.40 per paid mile. *It's that simple.*

So when guys like Actionjax says he's making whopper money at $1.30 it's just calling a spade a spade. Nothing personal. Some people might even call a person an ass for doing simple math because they really just don't like to hear how lax they are themselves about actually running the numbers themselves.


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> Most of the nay sayers here are just saying don't do X std. rates *and don't do so themselves.*
> 
> Using the 'if you don't like it, quit' has already been done by anyone who does the math. UberXers are certainly welcome to lose their asses by their choice.
> 
> There really is no argument available to claim drivers make money at less than $1.40 per paid mile. *It's that simple.*
> 
> So when guys like Actionjax says he's making whopper money at $1.30 it's just calling a spade a spade. Nothing personal. Some people might even call a person an ass for doing simple math because they really just don't like to hear how lax they are themselves about actually running the numbers themselves.


I never made a claim to making whopper money. But I am clearing $13 an hour part time after all expenses. My numbers are all up for people to see. You don't like it, well you don't need to live by it.

You can make money. The question is can you make a living at it. For me I say no. But I do make enough at my full time job I don't need to worry.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> I looked at Actionjax's numbers, and they were mathematically correct.
> 
> If I recall correctly, he had a much higher than 50% billable to dead mile ratio. I questioned if that actually occurred if he was in fact having the majority of his pings be 10 to 15 minutes away. Really, it's not the minutes, but the miles in that travel that effect the ratio. So if they were 10 to 15 minutes, but with low miles (KMs in his case), then yes he could have had the high billable to dead ratio. I get those high ratio hours, nights and weeks too sometimes. I also get low ratio hours, nights and weeks too. Overall they seem to average out to 50%, and many others here corroborate that being typical, but again it's very specific to the market conditions. Comparing my pings in Columbus to what a driver gets in Manhattan New York is literally comparing oranges to the Big Apple, and non-productive.
> 
> That all being said, a higher billable to dead mile ratio is INCREDIBLY beneficial to overall profitability. In my numbers, when I reduce dead miles from 50% to 40%, I increase profitability 43%!!!!
> 
> This is why drivers ignore far away pings. By doing so, they are reducing their dead mile ratio significantly, which produces a HUGE increase in profit. If you could just ignore some jobs, and produce a 43% raise in pay by doing it, wouldn't you do it? Of course you would. This is why "smart" drivers ignore pings far away.


Ya those numbers are not typical for dead to paid. But I'm reporting what was. I don't expect that going forward. I think 50/50 is a safe bet and for the most part its close one direction or the other.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> I never made a claim to making whopper money. But I am clearing $13 an hour part time after all expenses. My numbers are all up for people to see. You don't like it, well you don't need to live by it.
> 
> You can make money. The question is can you make a living at it. For me I say no. But I do make enough at my full time job I don't need to worry.


Not only did your math prove correct to me, but I could adjust my profit of $7.68 an hour from the math in my thread to produce yours simply by:

1) increasing the profit of $7.68 by 30% given your rates are around 30% higher than mine
2) increasing the profit another 40% given your ratio is 40% more profitable than my 50/50 ratio

$7.68 plus 30% of $7.68 ($2.30) plus 40% of $7.68 ($3.07) equals $13.05.

Got to love how consistent math is.


----------



## Uberdawg

Actionjax said:


> I never made a claim to making whopper money. But I am clearing $13 an hour part time after all expenses. My numbers are all up for people to see. You don't like it, well you don't need to live by it.
> 
> You can make money. The question is can you make a living at it. For me I say no. But I do make enough at my full time job I don't need to worry.


That's the real point. If did this full time in order to eat, it wouldn't make sense. I do it when I want to as a little extra income, leave my app on as I work from home, grab a fare, wait for one back etc... Part time makes sense to me. Full time doesn't.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> Not only did your math prove correct to me, but I could adjust my profit of $7.68 an hour from the math in my thread to produce yours simply by:
> 
> 1) increasing the profit of $7.68 by 30% given your rates are around 30% higher than mine
> 2) increasing the profit another 40% given your ratio is 40% more profitable than my 50/50 ratio
> 
> $7.68 plus 30% of $7.68 ($2.30) plus 40% of $7.68 ($3.07) equals $13.05.
> 
> Got to love how consistent math is.


At least we found common ground eventually. Lets just not talk world politics or religion.


----------



## UberHammer

Uberdawg said:


> That's the real point. If did this full time in order to eat, it wouldn't make sense. I do it when I want to as a little extra income, leave my app on as I work from home, grab a fare, wait for one back etc... Part time makes sense to me. Full time doesn't.


Yep. When rates were $1.30 here in Columbus, it was some nice extra income to add to my full time job.

But at $1.00, it's not worth it to me anymore. So to those still making some extra coin on top of their other job, enjoy it while the rates still provide that, because eventually the rates go low enough where it's not even worth it part time.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> Yep. When rates were $1.30 here in Columbus, it was some nice extra income to add to my full time job.
> 
> But at $1.00, it's not worth it to me anymore. So to those still making some extra coin on top of their other job, enjoy it while the rates still provide that, because eventually the rates go low enough where it's not even worth it part time.


My hope is with the low Canadian $ they will always be 30% higher than you guys. To account for the exchange rate. Uber loves it's US$.

I think I might be dreaming about that.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> I never made a claim to making whopper money. But I am *clearing $13 an hour* part time *after* all *expenses*. My numbers are all up for people to see. You don't like it, well you don't need to live by it.
> 
> You can make money. The question is can you make a living at it. For me I say no. But I do make enough at my full time job I don't need to worry.


That conclusion could be derived from anyone who departs from the IRS mileage allowance for costs. In reality though they are making zero or nearly so as far as 'taxable IRS income' goes.

Do you even have a mileage deduction cost for tax purposes in Canada?


----------



## UberHammer

scrurbscrud said:


> That conclusion could be derived from anyone who departs from the IRS mileage allowance for costs. In reality though they are making zero or nearly so as far as 'taxable IRS income' goes.


<sigh>


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> <sigh>


I'm not going to entertain it. It will just lead to 50 more argumentative posts.

He has Google he can look it up with the CRA.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Needless to say I don't believe Uber when they say you can 'make' X amount of dollars. Gross does not equal net.

Nor do I believe drivers who say they 'make' money *when their TAX FORMS say they make ZERO.*

Nor will my banker believe I make anything other than what's on the TAX FORM.

There are good business reasons to look at the actual 'make' numbers from the tax forms when one is an 'independent contractor.'


----------



## Uberdawg

scrurbscrud said:


> Needless to say I don't believe Uber when they say you can 'make' X amount of dollars. Gross does not equal net.
> 
> Nor do I believe drivers who say they 'make' money *when their TAX FORMS say they make ZERO.*
> 
> Nor will my banker believe I make anything other than what's on the TAX FORM.
> 
> There are good business reasons to look at the actual 'make' numbers from the tax forms when one is an 'independent contractor.'


That's true, however, any closely held corporation or Sole Propriortship will work to lower its tax rate as much as possible. If you have a relationship with your banker, he gets it.


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> Needless to say I don't believe Uber when they say you can 'make' X amount of dollars. Gross does not equal net.
> 
> Nor do I believe drivers who say they 'make' money *when their TAX FORMS say they make ZERO.*
> 
> Nor will my banker believe I make anything other than what's on the TAX FORM.
> 
> There are good business reasons to look at the actual 'make' numbers from the tax forms when one is an 'independent contractor.'


I don't believe what Uber says either. That's why I run my own numbers. When Uber try to sell the great independence opportunities of Uber I will be right there to show council the reality of the deal. I have a ton of data I couldn't get without doing it.

I think we can all agree Uber is not going to be sustainable for most.


----------



## Bart McCoy

ubtight said:


> Can you make pocket-money? Yes. Can pocket-money buy a pair of pants? Usually not. Take that advice to the bank.


I was with you up until that statement
Can you explain to me what you are actually trying to say?
because surely you can make enough money to buy a pair of pants now right? i mean they cost what,$5-$15 these days?
The only way i Could see that is if you're driving for a loss. And I could belevie that if you're in the markets where the pay rate is 65-80cents a mile


----------



## scrurbscrud

Uberdawg said:


> That's true, however, any closely held corporation or Sole Propriortship will work to lower its tax rate as much as possible. If you have a relationship with your banker, he gets it.


My bankers were OK with that too as long as I had hard assets with real value to leverage loans with.

On a longevity basis any business, LLC or subS corp that runs 3 years out of 5 without a 'taxable' profit might have issues. So yeah, making an actual profit on tax paper can be somewhat important. Not that I expect any UberX driver to still be driving that long...just sayin.

IF there is no profit, at some point the IRS can question whether it's an actual business *or just a hobby, and decline business deductions such as the IRS mileage deduction and drivers might be forced to claim only actual hard expenses and have to pay taxes on the remainder.*

Second (self employment) jobs or part time (self employment) jobs run in conjunction with full time (real jobs with real money that pay real taxes) jobs can get harder looks by the IRS as well.

http://www.bizfilings.com/toolkit/s...ive-required-to-claim-business-deduction.aspx


----------



## Bart McCoy

ubtight said:


> (And if you think that you can operate for cheaper than the standard deduction, you're deluding yourself.)
> .


Here we go again
Can you explain to me in full detail why NOBODY can operate their car for less than 57.5cents/mile despite their pay per mile rate and despite what car they drive despite if say they even got their car for free?

Serious question,because I refuse to believe the IRS can set a static number that's PROVEN to be everyone's cost. The IRS stating an average cost(57.5cents) I have no quams about, because its....an average


----------



## Rich Brunelle

Bart, what rate are you going to claim on your taxes?


----------



## Bart McCoy

Rich Brunelle said:


> Bart, what rate are you going to claim on your taxes?


Of course im going to claim what the IRS allows me to, which is the 57cents
My cost might be 25/cents a mile to drive, but of course I'm going to use the IRS 57cents anyway
Remember, I'm not debating that IRS gives us 57.5cents/mile to deduct on taxes, I'm debating that the IRS knows, before I even finish the year driving,that they know my actual costs are going to be 57.5cents a mile.....


----------



## scrurbscrud

Bart McCoy said:


> Of course im going to claim what the IRS allows me to, which is the 57cents
> My cost might be 25/cents a mile to drive, but of course I'm going to use the IRS 57cents anyway
> Remember, I'm not debating that IRS gives us 57.5cents/mile to deduct on taxes, I'm debating that the IRS knows, before I even finish the year driving,that they know my actual costs are going to be 57.5cents a mile.....


That scam has an IRS shelf life of 3 years.


----------



## Bart McCoy

scrurbscrud said:


> That scam has an IRS shelf life of 3 years.


huh?
#confused


----------



## scrurbscrud

Bart McCoy said:


> huh?
> #confused


3 years is the limit that a self employed/independent driving for hire contractor can take the IRS mileage deduction if they aren't turning a taxable profit.


----------



## Bart McCoy

scrurbscrud said:


> 3 years is the limit that a self employed/independent driving for hire contractor can take the IRS mileage deduction if they aren't turning a taxable profit.


oh okay, but im not talking at a loss
remember i said 25/cents a mile operating costs, not 95cents a mile.
and surely i wouldnt even be driving in 3 years because im sure in a few months, Uber will have made cuts in all markets to well below $1/mile(they have to if Travis sticks to Uber being less than cost of owning a car). At that point a loss is almost guranteed. At the current rate in some markets,or for people only playing the higher guarantees, like the $35-$45/hour in Texas, turning a profit is surely possible.


----------



## Uberdawg

scrurbscrud said:


> My bankers were OK with that too as long as I had hard assets with real value to leverage loans with.
> 
> On a longevity basis any business, LLC or subS corp that runs 3 years out of 5 without a 'taxable' profit might have issues. So yeah, making an actual profit on tax paper can be somewhat important. Not that I expect any UberX driver to still be driving that long...just sayin.
> 
> IF there is no profit, at some point the IRS can question whether it's an actual business *or just a hobby, and decline business deductions such as the IRS mileage deduction and drivers might be forced to claim only actual hard expenses and have to pay taxes on the remainder.*
> 
> Second (self employment) jobs or part time (self employment) jobs run in conjunction with full time (real jobs with real money that pay real taxes) jobs can get harder looks by the IRS as well.
> 
> http://www.bizfilings.com/toolkit/s...ive-required-to-claim-business-deduction.aspx


No doubt, the IRS will probably open an Uber Division with guys trying to write off meals and dry cleaning and other nonsense. It is easy tO show a profit 1 of every 3 years. The whole thing about the IRS is being reasonably intelligent about it. In college, I taught SCUBA and my CPA was telling me to write off the pool at my house. No ****ing way. That would be instant audit. Not worth the trouble.

Some peoples expenses may be greater than .57, so they have to make the call if the bookkeeping is worth the difference. Mine aren't so I am just going with .57. I keep receipts anyway I just don't bother itemizing them.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Uberdawg said:


> Some peoples expenses may be greater than .57, so they have to make the call if the bookkeeping is worth the difference. Mine aren't so I am just going with .57. I keep receipts anyway I just don't bother itemizing them.


That's funny,the people above say its not possible for your expenses to run under 57cents/mile


----------



## UberXtraordinary

I drive plus. Even thought Uber is a side gig, I usually end up driving a full 8 hours when I drive. I drive 12 - 16 hours per week and earn $120 - 300, depending on if I qualify for the guarantee, which I'm finding increasingly difficult to do as they are making it increasingly complicated. I think in the long run I will do better than that as the market expands, and I learn better practices through trial and error, and also consider adding Lyft to my services. 

This week I will dip down into X to make sure I hit my 1 ride per hour minimum before the end of the week. With this strategy I should earn slightly more than weeks where I failed to qualify for the gaurantee. Once the winter-warmup is over, I will add Lyft, and drive it instead of X.

I recommend covering your bases with a steady job and use Rideshare as a supplement to your main income. Drivers that do it that way seem much happier than those struggling to do it full-time.


----------



## UberHammer

scrurbscrud said:


> Needless to say I don't believe Uber when they say you can 'make' X amount of dollars. Gross does not equal net.
> 
> Nor do I believe drivers who say they 'make' money *when their TAX FORMS say they make ZERO.*
> 
> Nor will my banker believe I make anything other than what's on the TAX FORM.
> 
> There are good business reasons to look at the actual 'make' numbers from the tax forms when one is an 'independent contractor.'


Just like there is a difference between income and taxable income, there is a difference between profit and taxable profit.

Just because a driver and the IRS agree there is no taxable profit doesn't mean there is no profit, just like when a person and the IRS agree there is no taxable income doesn't mean there is no income.

Some fortune 500 companies pay ZERO in tax on their profit. That doesn't mean they have no profit. It just means they have great lobbyists.


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberHammer said:


> Just like there is a difference between income and taxable income, there is a difference between profit and taxable profit.
> 
> Just because a driver and the IRS agree there is no taxable profit doesn't mean there is no profit, just like when a person and the IRS agree there is no taxable income doesn't mean there is no income.
> 
> Some fortune 500 companies pay ZERO in tax on their profit. That doesn't mean they have no profit. It just means they have great lobbyists.


The lesson here for anyone that lasts through the 3rd year is to claim a taxable profit and pay income tax. Or quit.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Uberdawg said:


> No doubt, the IRS will probably open an Uber Division with guys trying to write off meals and dry cleaning and other nonsense. It is easy tO show a profit 1 of every 3 years. The whole thing about the IRS is being reasonably intelligent about it. In college, I taught SCUBA and my CPA was telling me to write off the pool at my house. No ****ing way. That would be instant audit. Not worth the trouble.
> 
> Some peoples expenses may be greater than .57, so they have to make the call if the bookkeeping is worth the difference. Mine aren't so I am just going with .57. I keep receipts anyway I just don't bother itemizing them.


I will be paying quarterly taxes on profit OR taking a wage with withholding. Meeting with my CPA sometime shortly to figure out which angle to take. Will slide through last year. Might have a small penalty tho. Don't know yet.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Actionjax said:


> It is tragic watching you spin like this. Lets now use real numbers. Not tae the east way out with IRS Numbers. It been proven by many here to be inaccurate for calculating.


He is COMPLETELY right Jax. Why do you continue to hold out this fantasy, saying "nope my situation is different"?
Ok, we understand that you violently object to using the $.57 IRS number. The best per mile op cost anyone has ever been able to show on here is $.32. Using that VERY conservative figure, you net exactly 28cents per mile, just over break even, still pathetic! This is the indisputable real math that CANNOT be argued with! So, stop saying, "we dont believe you, let everyone else do their own"! No! They've proven time and time again, that they're too stupid to do their own! Uber is a lose (outside of surging) for every kind of car, in every market in the country, just accept it! We are just trying to save one ignorant Uber driver at a time!


----------



## Bart McCoy

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> He is COMPLETELY right Jax. Why do you continue to hold out this fantasy, saying "nope my situation is different"?
> Ok, we understand that you violently object to using the $.57 IRS number. The best per mile op cost anyone has ever been able to show on here is $.32. Using that VERY conservative figure, you net exactly 28cents per mile, just over break even, still pathetic! This is the indisputable real math that CANNOT be argued with! So, stop saying, "we dont believe you, let everyone else do their own"! No! They've proven time and time again, that they're too stupid do do their own! Uber is a lose (outside of surging) for every kind of car, in every market in the country, just accept it! We are just trying to save one ignorant Uber driver at a time!


Well most of the debate would end if yall would simply admit that everyone's cost is NOT exactly the IRS 57cents

And if im not mistaken, i think you said $1.50/mile would be the minimum to churn a profit,but yet you sill said "uber is a lose in every market of the country", when clearly there are some markets at or above that amoutnt,and clearly more when you add the per min rate per mile. Unless you pick someone up on the highway,and drop them off on the highway, every paid mile will take you 2min at least. With 5-10min for one mile if you choose to overly agressively game that per min pay.Not everyone's rate is 12cents/min


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Actionjax said:


> There is still profit in my market. Again what most people need to realize is its individual. When you say it sucks. It sucks for you. Your costs are your own. That doesn't make them right for everyone else.
> 
> Do your own math.


Fantasy math = fantasy profit!
Have you been hitting the pipe again??? LOL
This really sounds like desperate denial!
You are exhibiting "stage 4 symptoms"
You're really crying out for help
Step #1) is to admit that you have a (Uber) problem ...
Step#2) is to seek help ...
We're going to stage an Uber Intervention for you ActionJax 
We're here to help you!


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Bart McCoy said:


> Well most of the debate would end if yall would simply admit that everyone's cost is NOT exactly the IRS 57cents
> 
> And if im not mistaken, i think you said $1.50/mile would be the minimum to churn a profit,but yet you sill said "uber is a lose in every market of the country", when clearly there are some markets at or above that amoutnt,and clearly more when you add the per min rate per mile. Unless you pick someone up on the highway,and drop them off on the highway, every paid mile will take you 2min at least. With 5-10min for one mile if you choose to overly agressively game that per min pay.Not everyone's rate is 12cents/min


Dammit Bart, we thought you got banned, after all ur rediculousness the other night???
I just said, ok forget IRS $.57, $.32 still sucks, so drop that "everyone has different costs" nonsense!


----------



## Uberdawg

I just finished a trip for $10. After Uber $7.20 to me. 4 miles to get to him, 4 mile trip, 2 miles to get back to a spot to wait for a ping. At .42, I just made 3 bucks. Now I am sitting here typing to you guys waiting for a ping. 38 degrees and rain. Ah, this is the good life.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Actionjax said:


> My cost is $0.32 per km and your calculations are not valid. You are looking at mileage only and not adding the $2.75 base to every fare or the $0.25 per min time. Some have calculated the km rate at over $3 when those have come into play. Where there are short pings and lots of small runs.


Ok, if ur costs are $.32, then ur netting $.28/mile just over breakeven, pathetic. Yes, its only about the mile. Base rate (eaten up by SRF) and minutes rate dont matter squat, to even put into the calculations. Please dont tell me ur one of those trying to do like 8 min. Fares/hour in a congested downtown scenario. God, that is the worst, fastest way to get into an accident, and have your doors fall off/torn off! YUK!


----------



## Actionjax

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> He is COMPLETELY right Jax. Why do you continue to hold out this fantasy, saying "nope my situation is different"?
> Ok, we understand that you violently object to using the $.57 IRS number. The best per mile op cost anyone has ever been able to show on here is $.32. Using that VERY conservative figure, you net exactly 28cents per mile, just over break even, still pathetic! This is the indisputable real math that CANNOT be argued with! So, stop saying, "we dont believe you, let everyone else do their own"! No! They've proven time and time again, that they're too stupid to do their own! Uber is a lose (outside of surging) for every kind of car, in every market in the country, just accept it! We are just trying to save one ignorant Uber driver at a time!


No you are just making stuff up with what you think is right. I have proven my math. Those who use the IRS calculation that's their business. Sorry if I don't play the poor card with you and the story doesn't work to make Uber the great evil and no one can make money. It's not the case for everyone.

What is a loss for you is not a loss for me. Uber drivers don't need saving. They need the guidance to make their own decisions. I plan to present facts and let people decide for themselves. You believe what you wish. But don't call me out unless you got some real facts to share against what I'm saying. To say I should use your calculations for true expense is wrong and I can prove it with what is acceptable in an open market with real dealer figures used to show cost of ownership and depreciation. That's the true way to get the number of cost per mile. Taking the IRS number is the same as taking any other number. It's baseless.

That said so what you want for yourself. You are sold on that. But don't tie it in to statements like you can't make money on Uber period. And that goes for every driver on the planet. And if you don't see that then your stupid. That's when I call you out. Because you are saying if I don't see it your way I'm stupid. I never called you stupid in anything you have said. I have questioned the logic behind the statement. And if you would give something tangible other than the IRS told us so then I'm bound to my way of calculation. So don't question it unless you wish to be questioned yourself.


----------



## Actionjax

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Ok, if ur costs are $.32, then ur netting $.28/mile just over breakeven, pathetic. Yes, its only about the mile. Base rate (eaten up by SRF) and minutes rate dont matter squat, to even put into the calculations. Please dont tell me ur one of those trying to do like 8 min. Fares/hour in a congested downtown scenario. God, that is the worst, fastest way to get into an accident, and have your doors fall off/torn off! YUK!


So now it's not about profit it's about how? Do you have a point here?


----------



## UberHammer

Uberdawg said:


> I just finished a trip for $10. After Uber $7.20 to me. 4 miles to get to him, 4 mile trip, 2 miles to get back to a spot to wait for a ping. At .42, I just made 3 bucks. Now I am sitting here typing to you guys waiting for a ping. 38 degrees and rain. Ah, this is the good life.


After two Uber trips you can afford a "five... five dollar.... five dollar footloooooooooong".


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Actionjax said:


> So now it's not about profit it's about how? Do you have a point here?


Yea, I guess my point was ... Uber sucks, if thats the only way to net a profit.
I will admit that your rates are incredible! Our base pickup fare is $1, thats why I dont even count it (just offsets SRF), $.15/min (again, thats why I dont even count it), & $.75/mile. This will all be "playing at a theatre near you soon" so enjoy your fat rates for now. Ok, you might be operating in the last profitable market in North America, but I could never do what you do. Operating at night in a downtown congested area, eventually you will get in an accident, or worse hit a pedestrian. Then it will all come crashing down, when Uber doesnt help/pay, and ur personal insurance drops you for running illegal livery service. :-( good luck though!


----------



## UberHammer

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Yea, I guess my point was ... Uber sucks


If nothing else... we can always agree on this.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> If nothing else... we can always agree on this.


Ya but that was the point all along. Don't know why it required calling others out to get that across.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Everyone knows Uber sucks. If that's the point, let's close the thread


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Bart McCoy said:


> Everyone knows Uber sucks. If that's the point, let's close the thread


Huh? You love Uber, cuz you can game the Playstation Guarantee, & depreciation doesnt affect you!?!? LOL


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Actionjax said:


> Ya but that was the point all along. Don't know why it required calling others out to get that across.


You could have saved us a lot of time if u just told us u were playing taxi bumper cars (without a medallion) in downtown Toronto. You said ur doing $3 per every half mile, so I assume thats what you are doing? We thought you were talking about "normal Ubering"! Dammit, this whole time, I've been looking at this all wrong! I always wanted to punch all my min fare pax right in the face, turns out thats where all the money is!!
(If, against all odds, you somehow skirt all the incredible risks stated in my previous post)


----------



## Bart McCoy

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Huh? You love Uber, cuz you can game the Playstation Guarantee, & depreciation doesnt affect you!?!? LOL


Wrong.
Because Uber sucks, I play the guarantee game. If Uber didnt suck, I would ride around regularly doing trips, because the pay would be worth it.

Depreciation affects anybody that ends up selling their car. Most people do,but everybody doesnt.


----------



## Uberdawg

UberHammer said:


> After two Uber trips you can afford a "five... five dollar.... five dollar footloooooooooong".


Got a airport run so know I can get chips and a drink too.


----------



## DrJeecheroo

Bart McCoy said:


> Everyone knows Uber sucks. If that's the point, let's close the thread


Just mention something about politics or religion and that'll do the trick. That always seems to attract the MOD's attention.


----------



## UberHammer

Uberdawg said:


> Got a airport run so know I can get chips and a drink too.


Uberdawg:"Hi. Where ya' headed?"
Pax: "I'm going to the airport."
Uberdawg: "AH! Hell yeah! I'm eatin' a Subway combo meal tonight!"


----------



## Simon

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Aaaah ... Not possible. (Outside of major surging)
> $1.50 x .8 = $1.2 x 50% "dead miles" (pretty much standard) = 60 cents/mile.
> True total Operating costs are between $.30-$.50/mile, so ur barely above break even!
> No where near $1/mile! Ur not counting ur unpaid miles.
> "Dead miles" are all the miles u drive without a paying fare, dont try to tell me you dont have any!
> Everyone on here agrees that 50% is about right. At the end of the day, ur lucky to net about 15cents/mile. :-(
> Now you see the ... "Grand illusion" :-(
> Sorry for the brutal reality check, Im just trying to save one Uber driver at a time!
> Uber is a loser! And ur in the highest remaining market in the country!
> Just wait til they cut you to$.75/mile! Arrrrg


Forgot the dead mile factor. Your right. But I don't get too worried about I have a real job. I also have cut down to half driving.. and now to once a month to keep active.


----------



## Simon

UberHammer said:


> Uberdawg:"Hi. Where ya' headed?"
> Pax: "I'm going to the airport."
> Uberdawg: "AH! Hell yeah! I'm eatin' a Subway combo meal tonight!"


Lol


----------



## Actionjax

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> You could have saved us a lot of time if u just told us u were playing taxi bumper cars (without a medallion) in downtown Toronto. You said ur doing $3 per every half mile, so I assume thats what you are doing? We thought you were talking about "normal Ubering"! Dammit, this whole time, I've been looking at this all wrong! I always wanted to punch all my min fare pax right in the face, turns out thats where all the money is!!
> (If, against all odds, you somehow skirt all the incredible risks stated in my previous post)


I must be learning a new concept. "Normal Ubering" I must be doing it wrong. I need to do it where I don't make money anymore. Looks like this is the place to learn.


----------



## Casandria

Still getting a laugh out of this thread, but have now switched to sipping wine instead of coffee


----------



## Actionjax

I think I'm going to go out and try and loose money this weekend. See if I try hard enough I may be able to do it. Just got to stick to "normal Ubering" 

Will let you all know how it goes.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Okay, for all of you still watching this thread. We have a new concept called "special Canadian ubering"! It has been determined that you can actually turn a profit ONLY ... If you do at least 8 min. fares/hr, and ONLY in downtown Toronto! All the rest of U are screwed, ur all losing $! LOL


----------



## uberThere

Actionjax said:


> I don't pay 0.53 per mile. Try $0.32 per mile. I work in real numbers not made up ones. And lately most nights I have been more paid to dead on longer hauls. Short hauls its a 50/50 but get the 2.75 drop on every one. So if you want try your math again. But lets throw some real variables in there.
> 
> 100 miles at $1.20 per mile
> 20 trips
> 
> We can use your 50/50 split
> 
> 5 hours worked with half of that on a fare at $0.25 per min.
> 
> Tell me I'm at a loss when you run that math even without surges.


I'm new here, and just looking over the numbers. Could you point me to where you break down your numbers?
I'm from Ottawa, and the numbers I've seen with my car are higher. My car is pretty fuel efficient (Nissan Altima 2.5), but this winter has me at 10L/100kms, it's 6 years old, so most of the depreciation has been already occurred, but the maintenance is just starting to kick in, and my car only has 89K kms. I've been through breaks, tires, oil changes, an a battery. It's only a matter of time until the exhaust. wheel bearings, shocks, tire rods, transmission, etc start going, then you're into big repair bills. At least my car is paid for, so there is no interest expense. I'm using maintenance over the past 3 years, but it will get worse.

I'm using the US Kelly Blue Book for depreciation because the Canadian Black Book doesn't give the figures, and I assume it will be similar. I assume an extra 16K kms (10K mi).

Fuel: $.16 mi
Main: $ .19 mi (I'm adding .01 for Uber related car washes, and cleaning)
Dep: $ .05 mi

ttl: $.40 mi

TIA.


----------



## Actionjax

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Okay, for all of you still watching this thread. We have a new concept called "special Canadian ubering"! It has been determined that you can actually turn a profit ONLY ... If you do at least 8 min. fares/hr, and ONLY in downtown Toronto! All the rest of U are screwed, ur all losing $! LOL


Actually I did provide my latest numbers that were all outside the city. There was a profit. I know hard to believe.


----------



## uberThere

scrurbscrud said:


> That conclusion could be derived from anyone who departs from the IRS mileage allowance for costs. In reality though they are making zero or nearly so as far as 'taxable IRS income' goes.
> 
> Do you even have a mileage deduction cost for tax purposes in Canada?


CRA has a much different system for small businesses. If you are paying someone, you get a fixed rate, currently it's $.55 per km for the first 5K, and then $.49 after that.
For an Uber driver, you capitalize the car in a pool of assets (Class 10), these are then depreciated 30% per year based on the percentage of business driving you do (note it's only 50% for the year you add it, and 50% when you dispose of it). You also account for the actual amount of expenses (fuel, repairs, car washes, etc) pro rated for the business use.

Assuming
1) car is $30K (after 1st year)
2) fuel is $2K
3) maintenance is $500
4) you drive 16K kms for Uber and 50K kms total

[30,000 * .3 + 2,000 + 500] * 16/50 = $3,680.

Which is $.23 per km for this example.

As you can see, we don't get the same tax advantages in Canada.


----------



## Actionjax

uberThere said:


> I'm new here, and just looking over the numbers. Could you point me to where you break down your numbers?
> I'm from Ottawa, and the numbers I've seen with my car are higher. My car is pretty fuel efficient (Nissan Altima 2.5), but this winter has me at 10L/100kms, it's 6 years old, so most of the depreciation has been already occurred, but the maintenance is just starting to kick in, and my car only has 89K kms. I've been through breaks, tires, oil changes, an a battery. It's only a matter of time until the exhaust. wheel bearings, shocks, tire rods, transmission, etc start going, then you're into big repair bills. At least my car is paid for, so there is no interest expense. I'm using maintenance over the past 3 years, but it will get worse.
> 
> I'm using the US Kelly Blue Book for depreciation because the Canadian Black Book doesn't give the figures, and I assume it will be similar. I assume an extra 16K kms (10K mi).
> 
> Fuel: $.16 mi
> Main: $ .19 mi (I'm adding .01 for Uber related car washes, and cleaning)
> Dep: $ .05 mi
> 
> ttl: $.40 mi
> 
> TIA.


Something is not adding up from what I am seeing. How many KM do you plan on putting on the car in total, not just Ubering and for how many years do you want to base that on? (I am assuming it's a 2009) I base the figure blended over the life of the car and not what you think you will put on. I'm putting your fuel cost at about $0.13 per km Also if you are only saying you will 16,000 KM you may not need all the thinks you are putting in here. I would say amortize it over 100,000KM is a more likely scenario. Depreciation looks ok from doing a few other calculations for others.


----------



## uberThere

Actionjax said:


> Something is not adding up from what I am seeing. How many KM do you plan on putting on the car in total, not just Ubering and for how many years do you want to base that on? (I am assuming it's a 2009) I base the figure blended over the life of the car and not what you think you will put on. I'm putting your fuel cost at about $0.13 per km Also if you are only saying you will 16,000 KM you may not need all the thinks you are putting in here. I would say amortize it over 100,000KM is a more likely scenario. Depreciation looks ok from doing a few other calculations for others.


I'm actually using miles for the depreciation - I used the 55K miles I have on my car and added 200 miles a week to it for Uber-only miles. The difference was a little over 5 cents a mile. The car is a model 2008, but I purchased it in December, so it's just a tick over 6 years. The current value of my car is $10K.

I'm was a CPA for 10 years, so I use two concepts to determine the depreciation
1) the cost of the asset when put in use
2) the cost to the business of the asset.

Number one will always use the cost of the depreciation from the time the asset is added, and not the life of the car as the car was not in service from day 1.
However, the 2nd one allows for a few different ways to determine cost per mile of depreciation

1) the change in market value based on business miles/ ttl miles
2) the CCA for the year based on bus mi/ttl mi (this is the way you determine the expense for taxes)
3) the extra depreciation based on business miles driven.
4) a straight-line depreciation of the asset based on expected useful life, then pro rated by current bus mi/ttl miles
5) your unit method pro rated by the current bus mi/ttl mi (again, only based on value when placed in service)

Although, I used #1 in my example, I wouldn't do this when accounting for the business because it breaks the rules of accounting based on book value. I only use it as most people here would see this as more relevant to the IRS comparison.
My preferred method would be to use the CCA method since it is used for tax purposes. In this case my amortization would be calculated as

Edit: I actually used #3 in my example, but both 1&3 are examples of things you don't do as they are both based on market values.

10,000 * .3 * 10,000 / 20,000 = $1,500
*10K mi is what I average

Which is $.15 for each mile driven for business.

Fuel costs are in-line with mine, can you let me know what you assume for maintenance?


----------



## Uberdawg

You foreign people that use kilometers instead of miles. I am so confused


----------



## BayArea Lyft Driver

Uberdawg said:


> You foreign people that use kilometers instead of miles. I am so confused


It's only us American Civilians that only use the English System, everyone else is on Metric.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

uberThere said:


> I'm actually using miles for the depreciation - I used the 55K miles I have on my car and added 200 miles a week to it for Uber-only miles. The difference was a little over 5 cents a mile. The car is a model 2008, but I purchased it in December, so it's just a tick over 6 years. The current value of my car is $10K.
> 
> I'm was a CPA for 10 years, so I use two concepts to determine the depreciation
> 1) the cost of the asset when put in use
> 2) the cost to the business of the asset.
> 
> Number one will always use the cost of the depreciation from the time the asset is added, and not the life of the car as the car was not in service from day 1.
> However, the 2nd one allows for a few different ways to determine cost per mile of depreciation
> 
> 1) the change in market value based on business miles/ ttl miles
> 2) the CCA for the year based on bus mi/ttl mi (this is the way you determine the expense for taxes)
> 3) the extra depreciation based on business miles driven.
> 4) a straight-line depreciation of the asset based on expected useful life, then pro rated by current bus mi/ttl miles
> 5) your unit method pro rated by the current bus mi/ttl mi (again, only based on value when placed in service)
> 
> Although, I used #1 in my example, I wouldn't do this when accounting for the business because it breaks the rules of accounting based on book value. I only use it as most people here would see this as more relevant to the IRS comparison.
> My preferred method would be to use the CCA method since it is used for tax purposes. In this case my amortization would be calculated as
> 
> 10,000 * .3 * 10,000 / 20,000 = $1,500
> *10K mi is what I average
> 
> Which is $.15 for each mile driven for business.
> 
> Fuel costs are in-line with mine, can you let me know what you assume for maintenance?


Uh Oh ... a really smart Canadian CPA says his legit per mile op costs are $.40. The fantasyland $.20 people dont want to hear that, its on now! Prouda yah UberThere! Now all you got to do is get to downtown Toronto before ActionJax, and do as many minimum fares per hour as humanly possible! Otherwise you will be losing$! Oh yea, and hope you dont kill anybody, or have ur doors fall off, doing 50 min fares per day! Good luck!


----------



## Uberdawg

BayArea Lyft Driver said:


> It's only us American Civilians that only use the English System, everyone else is on Metric.


Nah, really???


----------



## Actionjax

uberThere said:


> I'm actually using miles for the depreciation - I used the 55K miles I have on my car and added 200 miles a week to it for Uber-only miles. The difference was a little over 5 cents a mile. The car is a model 2008, but I purchased it in December, so it's just a tick over 6 years. The current value of my car is $10K.
> 
> I'm was a CPA for 10 years, so I use two concepts to determine the depreciation
> 1) the cost of the asset when put in use
> 2) the cost to the business of the asset.
> 
> Number one will always use the cost of the depreciation from the time the asset is added, and not the life of the car as the car was not in service from day 1.
> However, the 2nd one allows for a few different ways to determine cost per mile of depreciation
> 
> 1) the change in market value based on business miles/ ttl miles
> 2) the CCA for the year based on bus mi/ttl mi (this is the way you determine the expense for taxes)
> 3) the extra depreciation based on business miles driven.
> 4) a straight-line depreciation of the asset based on expected useful life, then pro rated by current bus mi/ttl miles
> 5) your unit method pro rated by the current bus mi/ttl mi (again, only based on value when placed in service)
> 
> Although, I used #1 in my example, I wouldn't do this when accounting for the business because it breaks the rules of accounting based on book value. I only use it as most people here would see this as more relevant to the IRS comparison.
> My preferred method would be to use the CCA method since it is used for tax purposes. In this case my amortization would be calculated as
> 
> 10,000 * .3 * 10,000 / 20,000 = $1,500
> *10K mi is what I average
> 
> Which is $.15 for each mile driven for business.
> 
> Fuel costs are in-line with mine, can you let me know what you assume for maintenance?


I do one of two things since most are estimates. Use the standard maintenance schedule you have on a car during the mileage numbers they have indicated. Adding the bigger items as you may think is needed.

Or number two you can use this site to get standard numbers here.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/guide-page.html

That was the best resource I could find.


----------



## uberThere

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Uh Oh ... a really smart Canadian CPA says his legit per mile op costs are $.40. The fantasyland $.20 people dont want to hear that, its on now! Prouda yah UberThere! Now all you got to do is get to downtown Toronto before ActionJax, and do as many minimum fares per hour as humanly possible! Otherwise you will be losing$! Oh yea, and hope you dont kill anybody, or have ur doors fall off, doing 50 min fares per day! Good luck!


I actually don't have any plan to drive in Ottawa at the moment. The city is fining drivers for violating city ordinances at about $1K a pop. 
I'm just curious as to what it may be like, that's why I'm reading these threads.


----------



## Actionjax

uberThere said:


> I actually don't have any plan to drive in Ottawa at the moment. The city is fining drivers for violating city ordinances at about $1K a pop.
> I'm just curious as to what it may be like, that's why I'm reading these threads.


Vancouver today just signed a deal with Uber. I can't imagine other cities wont follow. Most are holding out to see what Toronto is doing.


----------



## uberThere

Actionjax said:


> I do one of two things since most are estimates. Use the standard maintenance schedule you have on a car during the mileage numbers they have indicated. Adding the bigger items as you may think is needed.
> 
> Or number two you can use this site to get standard numbers here.
> 
> That was the best resource I could find.


Thanks for the link, I think the Edmund's is a better estimate. The maintenance schedule in my OM is out to lunch according to my mechanic.

On another note. How do you like what you are doing, and what part of Toronto are you in?
I used to live in Markham for about a year, and I hated driving there.


----------



## uberThere

Actionjax said:


> Vancouver today just signed a deal with Uber. I can't imagine other cities wont follow. Most are holding out to see what Toronto is doing.


Toronto politics is boring now that Ford left. 
Ottawa is a city like no other I've lived in, and that includes North Vancouver, and Montreal.
The cab drivers are actually unionized, and they get a large portion of their revenues from the taxi chits that the government uses.


----------



## Uberdawg

uberThere said:


> Toronto politics is boring now that Ford left.
> Ottawa is a city like no other I've lived in, and that includes North Vancouver, and Montreal.
> The cab drivers are actually unionized, and they get a large portion of their revenues from the taxi chits that the government uses.


Say it isn't so!!!!!!! You guys booted the crack head? I am bummed out.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> Actually I did provide my latest numbers that were all outside the city. There was a profit. I know hard to believe.


Your numbers are sketchy i.e. they don't pencil out. Neither does 1 dead mile to 3 paid miles.


----------



## Actionjax

uberThere said:


> Thanks for the link, I think the Edmund's is a better estimate. The maintenance schedule in my OM is out to lunch according to my mechanic.
> 
> On another note. How do you like what you are doing, and what part of Toronto are you in?
> I used to live in Markham for about a year, and I hated driving there.


I live in North York. Being a part time gig I like it. For the most part this is research on the Uber facts. Was trying to see if what Uber is saying fact or fiction. Most times its a bit of exaggerated truth. As much as I have despised cabs before I started this, I have a new respect for the industry. And would like to see both operate in a positive manner.

As for driving in Markham I couldn't agree more. Very poor drivers there.


----------



## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> Your numbers are sketchy i.e. they don't pencil out. Neither does 1 dead mile to 3 paid miles.


Oh well. Believe why you want. Those are the numbers, deal with it or prove me wrong. I guess I need to do some "Real Ubbering" like you do.


----------



## scrurbscrud

uberThere said:


> Fuel: $.16 mi
> Main: $ .19 mi (I'm adding .01 for Uber related car washes, and cleaning)
> Dep: $ .05 mi
> 
> ttl: $.40 mi
> 
> TIA.


That's a fair assessment. Uber Toronto pays about a buck 28 per mile. After Uber's cut that's 
$1.02 per paid mile. Most drivers will realistically run at 1 paid to 1 unpaid mile when the dust settles, making the $1.02 56 cents per overall mile.

Your cost is 40 cents a mile.

How much will you 'make?'

16 cents a mile overall. 200 miles in a long day/night will net out 32 bucks. The drop fees in Toronto are fairly high, so add another $40 and for a couple of hours actual driving time another $30.

Net net about $100.

Don't know what your insurance regs are up dere. Here drivers are putting themselves out for a lot of risk for very little return.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> Oh well. Believe why you want. Those are the numbers, deal with it or prove me wrong. I guess I need to do some "Real Ubbering" like you do.


You can prove them yourself. It appears that you overstated your income for two days, in one case by about 30%


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## Uberdawg

Where is Bart? Can't have a good pissing match without Bart.


----------



## Actionjax

Uberdawg said:


> Where is Bart? Can't have a good pissing match without Bart.


I'm just going to ignore it. I'm comfortable with my numbers as are a few others on here. No need to argue about it. If I'm losing money then I'm only losing my money. Not anyone else. I'm sure when people do their math properly they will figure it out for themselves. Bank balances never lie.


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## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> Oh well. Believe why you want. Those are the numbers, deal with it or prove me wrong. I guess I need to do some "Real Ubbering" like you do.


You should have proofed it before you put it up. I'm tellin ya it doesn't pencil out.

You claimed in this post https://uberpeople.net/threads/post-rate-cut-friday-feb-20-and-sunday-february-22.14429/ the following gross:

"Total KM driven = 86
Paid KM while driving = 57.45
Total Rides = 6
More paid to dead by a long shot
True cost per KM based on my vehicle $0.32 per km operating cost
*Gross Pay for period = $91.40* or $30.46 per hour gross"

At Uber's Toronto rate of 80 cent a km X 57.45 paid km's = $45.96 X .8 after Uber's cut = $36.77
6 drop fees are $13.20 to you
An hour of drive time pay is $15 or $12 after Uber's cut

Should have been a gross of $61.97 not $91.40

What am I missing?


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## Uberdawg

Actionjax said:


> I'm just going to ignore it. I'm comfortable with my numbers as are a few others on here. No need to argue about it. If I'm losing money then I'm only losing my money. Not anyone else. I'm sure when people do their math properly they will figure it out for themselves. Bank balances never lie.


I must admit that I get tired of people telling me what my numbers are when they have no clue what vehicle I drive, where I drive, etc.... I drive for my purposes and they do not include eating out of my earnings. I get it that there are those who do, however, my situation is different. At current rate, I would never tell anyone this is a great gig, but it works for me.


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## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> You should have proofed it before you put it up. I'm tellin ya it doesn't pencil out.
> 
> You claimed in this post https://uberpeople.net/threads/post-rate-cut-friday-feb-20-and-sunday-february-22.14429/ the following gross:
> 
> "Total KM driven = 86
> Paid KM while driving = 57.45
> Total Rides = 6
> More paid to dead by a long shot
> True cost per KM based on my vehicle $0.32 per km operating cost
> *Gross Pay for period = $91.40* or $30.46 per hour gross"
> 
> At Uber's Toronto rate of 80 cent a km X 57.45 paid km's = $45.96 X .8 after Uber's cut = $36.77
> 6 drop fees are $13.20 to you
> An hour of drive time pay is $15 or $12 after Uber's cut
> 
> Should have been a gross of $61.97 not $91.40
> 
> What am I missing?


So here are the numbers from the pay statement. I may have miscalculated and included the $1 SRF in the calculations as I was getting it from the Uber dashboard. But here is the pay statement. My net is $68.61 and then deduct my cost of $27.52= $41.09 / 3 =$13.70 per hour.

Now that I have shown you the math and the real totals...what are you missing?


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## uberThere

scrurbscrud said:


> That's a fair assessment. Uber Toronto pays about a buck 28 per mile. After Uber's cut that's
> $1.02 per paid mile. Most drivers will realistically run at 1 paid to 1 unpaid mile when the dust settles, making the $1.02 56 cents per overall mile.
> 
> Your cost is 40 cents a mile.
> 
> How much will you 'make?'
> 
> 16 cents a mile overall. 200 miles in a long day/night will net out 32 bucks. The drop fees in Toronto are fairly high, so add another $40 and for a couple of hours actual driving time another $30.
> 
> Net net about $100.
> 
> Don't know what your insurance regs are up dere. Here drivers are putting themselves out for a lot of risk for very little return.


It's the same deal, if you make a claim then you're pretty much screwed. Some departments where I work are even looking at preventing people from going to meetings in their own cars because it's a bit of a grey area if they reimburse you. That's another reason I'm just doing some research right now. I want to see what Uber or the insurance industry does. It's $5K for commercial insurance here, so you can't make money if you buy it.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

Actionjax said:


> I'm just going to ignore it. I'm comfortable with my numbers as are a few others on here. No need to argue about it. If I'm losing money then I'm only losing my money. Not anyone else. I'm sure when people do their math properly they will figure it out for themselves. Bank balances never lie.


 Ooops, that was a fatal mistake! That's the whole point, bank balances totally lie! Because you're just selling little pieces of your car not really "earning" any money. By ubering you're just stealing car equity from the future. Your bank balance might be going up temporarily but your net worth is actually going down. This is exactly the uber allusion!


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## Actionjax

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Ooops, that was a fatal mistake! That's the whole point, bank balances totally lie! Because you're just selling little pieces of your car not really "earning" any money. By ubering you're just stealing car equity from the future. Your bank balance might be going up temporarily but your net worth is actually going down. This is exactly the uber allusion!


So go look at the numbers again...I just posted them. If you say I am not turning a profit that's because I know the equity in my car. It sat for 3 years underutilized with very low KM. Lost all the money in the age. Now I'm just catching up. You cant get more value on an old car just because the miles are real low. Not as much value as using them and spending them for the money on Uber. And I can write them off at years end.

Oh guess you didn't think of that angle.


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## Actionjax

Guess there are no more questions on this. I will consider this issue resolved.


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## Uberdawg

Issues get resolved here? I just thought this forum was to vent frustrations on people we don't know instead of beating the dog.


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## Actionjax

Uberdawg said:


> Issues get resolved here? I just thought this forum was to vent frustrations on people we don't know instead of beating the dog.


Sometimes they do. Figured I was going to be called a liar again and that I falsified my numbers. Thing is I'm not trying to prove profit. I'm not trying to prove anything. I just report what happens. I have to have the evidence as on here I could care less. But other that I share these numbers with are going to audit my figures. You are dam sure I got backup on stuff.

The only thing I don't have is a box to record my mileage on the car. I need to have people take that on faith that the Trip is being reset at each start of shift then recorded at the end of night.

The next thing I am going to do is reset my second trip in the car for each trip I do. then compare it with the Uber GPS result to see if it's accurate. Think this weekend is going to be interesting. I'm curious if we are either being shorted or if we get more due to discrepancy.


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## UberHammer

Uberdawg said:


> I drive for my purposes and they do not include eating out of my earnings.


At these rates, I wouldn't recommend trying to buy food out of these earnings. You may end up washing dishes to cover the deficit.


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## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> At these rates, I wouldn't recommend trying to buy food out of these earnings. You may end up washing dishes to cover the deficit.


A bag of chips would put you over.


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## Uberdawg

UberHammer said:


> At these rates, I wouldn't recommend trying to buy food out of these earnings. You may end up washing dishes to cover the deficit.


I did make my foot long combo yesterday, so I guess I do eat out of it after all.


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## williamjohnson

so far i use it sparingly i have gross earned after about 50 trips in a month an about 25 hours of 'work' 780$, after uber takes their 29% fee i am left with a little under 600$ this does not include my wear and tear and fuel costs. I WILL NOT continue with uber until they add a tip feature also if someone is going to leave 3 stars of less they need to leave a explanation and you need to be able to see why they left that rating also if they do this they should not be allowed to request your service again(to protect the driver from more malicious negativity). drivers should also be allowed to appeal negative feedback. 

Another thing when the tipping( it should be 12% minimum added and the passenger should be able to choose 12%(min) 15% 18% or 20% and 20% plus( somehting they want to write in that exceeds 20%.... obviously people use uber because they are cheap and are saving money on a cab but even cab drivers get TIPS!!! and their cabs are GARBAGE!!!

anyone else have thoughts on the extreme valid points ive made?

-William


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## Actionjax

williamjohnson said:


> so far i use it sparingly i have gross earned after about 50 trips in a month an about 25 hours of 'work' 780$, after uber takes their 29% fee i am left with a little under 600$ this does not include my wear and tear and fuel costs. I WILL NOT continue with uber until they add a tip feature also if someone is going to leave 3 stars of less they need to leave a explanation and you need to be able to see why they left that rating also if they do this they should not be allowed to request your service again(to protect the driver from more malicious negativity). drivers should also be allowed to appeal negative feedback.
> 
> Another thing when the tipping( it should be 12% minimum added and the passenger should be able to choose 12%(min) 15% 18% or 20% and 20% plus( somehting they want to write in that exceeds 20%.... obviously people use uber because they are cheap and are saving money on a cab but even cab drivers get TIPS!!! and their cabs are GARBAGE!!!
> 
> anyone else have thoughts on the extreme valid points ive made?
> 
> -William


I know when I left a 2* for a driver I was prompted for a reason in the App. I also remember this for a 3*. There were big icons for the reason and a place to leave a comment. I am sure they can quickly bypass that but it is there.

As for Tipping there is a whole area dedicated to that subject. And frankly it's been beaten to death.


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

williamjohnson said:


> so far i use it sparingly i have gross earned after about 50 trips in a month an about 25 hours of 'work' 780$, after uber takes their 29% fee i am left with a little under 600$ this does not include my wear and tear and fuel costs. I WILL NOT continue with uber until they add a tip feature also if someone is going to leave 3 stars of less they need to leave a explanation and you need to be able to see why they left that rating also if they do this they should not be allowed to request your service again(to protect the driver from more malicious negativity). drivers should also be allowed to appeal negative feedback.
> 
> Another thing when the tipping( it should be 12% minimum added and the passenger should be able to choose 12%(min) 15% 18% or 20% and 20% plus( somehting they want to write in that exceeds 20%.... obviously people use uber because they are cheap and are saving money on a cab but even cab drivers get TIPS!!! and their cabs are GARBAGE!!!
> 
> anyone else have thoughts on the extreme valid points ive made?
> 
> -William


Well, you're never going to get to appeal pax feedback, so you can forget that one LOL Travis tells the riders that tips included so forget that one too. More importantly, we need to know how many miles you drove (total while on an Uber shift, not just with a paying fare) in your 50 trip month to see if you actually turned a profit or not. What city are you in & what's your $/per mile rate?


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## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> Guess there are no more questions on this. I will consider this issue resolved.


Just remember when you claim to 'make' money to subtract Uber's cut because you didn't make shit from that cut. That was the general point of the exercise. *You claimed to 'make' $91 *and *you really made $68 before expenses.*


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## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> Just remember when you claim to 'make' money to subtract Uber's cut because you didn't make shit from that cut. That was the general point of the exercise. *You claimed to 'make' $91 *and *you really made $68 before expenses.*


Even after stripping of expenses there is still a profit for the hours worked of $13 per hour. All after expenses. You may need to go read it again if you don't understand.


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## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> Even after stripping of expenses there is still a profit for the hours worked of $13 per hour. All after expenses. You may need to go read it again if you don't understand.


That'd be true except you forgot to subtract Ubers cut.


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## victor34

williamjohnson said:


> so far i use it sparingly i have gross earned after about 50 trips in a month an about 25 hours of 'work' 780$, after uber takes their 29% fee i am left with a little under 600$ this does not include my wear and tear and fuel costs. I WILL NOT continue with uber until they add a tip feature also if someone is going to leave 3 stars of less they need to leave a explanation and you need to be able to see why they left that rating also if they do this they should not be allowed to request your service again(to protect the driver from more malicious negativity). drivers should also be allowed to appeal negative feedback.
> 
> Another thing when the tipping( it should be 12% minimum added and the passenger should be able to choose 12%(min) 15% 18% or 20% and 20% plus( somehting they want to write in that exceeds 20%.... obviously people use uber because they are cheap and are saving money on a cab but even cab drivers get TIPS!!! and their cabs are GARBAGE!!!
> 
> anyone else have thoughts on the extreme valid points ive made?
> 
> -William


I hope one day everybody driving for Uber will understand what you mean!!! 
But if they were capable of understanding what you mean then they wouldn't be driving for Uber now  
Service business in the U.S without tip???? Perfect for cheap ppl...
Only cheap or poor people are using Uber, they are trying to save $$$ by stealing your time/work/car/money...WAKE UP AND STOP DRIVING FOR UBER!!!


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## UberHammer

Uberdawg said:


> Where is Bart? Can't have a good pissing match without Bart.


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## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> Even after stripping of expenses there is still a profit for the hours worked of $13 per hour. All after expenses. You may need to go read it again if you don't understand.


Yeah. And claiming 1 dead mile to 4 paid miles to do so.


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## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> Yeah. And claiming 1 dead mile to 4 paid miles to do so.


So are you calling my numbers still a lie. I have provided everything. At this point go take a hike. You will never be satisfied till someone is losing like you are. And I'm not going to stoop to your level. Good luck.


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## Fuzzyelvis

[QUO.TE="Rich Brunelle, post: 193445, member: 7824"]Bart, what rate are you going to claim on your taxes?[/QUOTE]
I'm not Bart but just because you have a deduction doesn't mean it's worth that much to you if you didn't have the deduction for instance I give old clothes to Goodwill all the time I take a tax deduction on them it's an increase in income for me because otherwise the clothes would go in the trashin 5 I'm going to Goodwill I'm paying less in taxes I'm essentially selling them for the amount that it reduces my tAxes


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## Dany

Actionjax 
U sound like uber propaganda machine
R u spoke person for this dirty company (uber ) 
If u make $1 or $10000 per week 
That's ur fkn problem ,people make money the hard way or dirty way probably like u


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## Actionjax

Dany said:


> Actionjax
> U sound like uber propaganda machine
> R u spoke person for this dirty company (uber )
> If u make $1 or $10000 per week
> That's ur fkn problem ,people make money the hard way or dirty way probably like u


Do you drive? Or just here to complain.


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## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> So are you calling my numbers still a lie. I have provided everything. At this point go take a hike. You will never be satisfied till someone is losing like you are. And I'm not going to stoop to your level. Good luck.


There are 2 kinds of gross figures. A gross before Uber's cut and the gross the driver actually receives. An important distinction when calculating 'make.' When subtracting expenses it would seem appropriate to take out Uber's expense as well.


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## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> There are 2 kinds of gross figures. A gross before Uber's cut and the gross the driver actually receives. An important distinction when calculating 'make.' When subtracting expenses it would seem appropriate to take out Uber's expense as well.


Or deduct my expenses out of my cut. Are you saying that method that I use is not valid?


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## scrurbscrud

Actionjax said:


> Or deduct my expenses out of my cut. Are you saying that method that I use is not valid?


Noting an hourly to you before Uber's cut but after other expenses is not hourly to you.


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## Actionjax

scrurbscrud said:


> Noting an hourly to you before Uber's cut but after other expenses is not hourly to you.


Again I take what Uber deposits in my bank subtract my cost to drive and divide by my number of hours. That's the hourly. That's what I have been showing. Again what is wrong with that.

Can someone chime in as a mediator on this because either one of us or both of us are not hearing what each other are saying.


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## UberHammer

scrurbscrud said:


> Noting an hourly to you before Uber's cut but after other expenses is not hourly to you.


Yes, I saw that in the numbers he shared too. I chose to just ignore it, because it's meaningless to me. It means something to him though, or else he's wasting his time calculating it and typing it out. The fact that he got the numbers I find meaningful correct is enough for me. If someone wants to make other random equations too, I have no problem with it. I'm sure some of the numbers I show don't resonate as meaningful to many people here. They mean something to me, so I share them. Hell, half the people here don't seem to resonate the end profit number ActionJax and I show as meaningful. The length of this thread alone is evidence of that.


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## scrurbscrud

UberHammer said:


> *Yes, I saw that in the numbers he shared too*.


A. I couldn't get to his gross number using Toronto numbers for the gross Uber fare either. In one case it was considerably 'long' by a large percentage, but whatever. There are enough pieces to the financials to make a person pay attentions, even with their own stuff. I know I'd have a hell of a time making anything even at the $1.28 per mile they pay there in any case of 'figuring' apart from 'surge' of course.


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## williamjohnson

I am the President of the DRIVER GUILD and want to start a union. please contact me if interested in making some real changes!


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## Actionjax

williamjohnson said:


> I am the President of the DRIVER GUILD and want to start a union. please contact me if interested in making some real changes!


You have a website?

Details?


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## williamjohnson

yesterday i worked 6 hours went 100miles made 130$ after ubers cut. i am in DMV area.


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## williamjohnson

im going to start leaving 1-3 stars for everyone who doesnt tip!!! its absurd not to tip!!! this is AMERICA!


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## ubtight

Actionjax said:


> $0.56 a mile is not accurate to calculate true cost. Many threads have debunked that. Unless you are driving a Hummer for Uber.


Debunked? That cost per mile isn't just to operate your car. It's also to replace your vehicle. Given most areas, especially where they have winter, you should plan on doing this every 3 years if you're driving 30 hours or more a week.

Just for example, let's say you are using $0.56/mile at 10 miles driven per hour.

$5.60 an hour should go in your business bank account to cover car expenses. This will pay for:

1) Your gas.
2) Oil changes every 5K miles.
3) New tires. Expect to replace them once a year.
4) Transmission and radiator flushes.
5) Windshield wipers, lights, washer fluid, etc.
6) Car washes, waxes, and detailing.
7) Candy/water. (If you're not doing this, you're losing out on tips.)
8) Car insurance. Commercial or new hybrid plan.

Hopefully after these expenses you'll the equivalent of $3/hr left in your bank account. After 3 years you should have $8,000-12,000 to pay for a new Uber vehicle.

Is there any UberX driver who is doing this and -- after Uber takes their cut -- still getting more than what they would get working for Aldi or Walmart in their area?

Highly doubtful.


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## Actionjax

ubtight said:


> Debunked? That cost per mile isn't just to operate your car. It's also to replace your vehicle. Given most areas, especially where they have winter, you should plan on doing this every 3 years if you're driving 30 hours or more a week.
> 
> Just for example, let's say you are using $0.56/mile at 10 miles driven per hour.
> 
> $5.60 an hour should go in your business bank account to cover car expenses. This will pay for:
> 
> 1) Your gas.
> 2) Oil changes every 5K miles.
> 3) New tires. Expect to replace them once a year.
> 4) Transmission and radiator flushes.
> 5) Windshield wipers, lights, washer fluid, etc.
> 6) Car washes, waxes, and detailing.
> 7) Candy/water. (If you're not doing this, you're losing out on tips.)
> 8) Car insurance. Commercial or new hybrid plan.
> 
> Hopefully after these expenses you'll the equivalent of $3/hr left in your bank account. After 3 years you should have $8,000-12,000 to pay for a new Uber vehicle.
> 
> Is there any UberX driver who is doing this and -- after Uber takes their cut -- still getting more than what they would get working for Aldi or Walmart in their area?
> 
> Highly doubtful.


Sorry but it's still not accurate. Tires every year? Transmission and rad flushes on a new car are not yearly. Most don't need to be changed for 50,000 miles.

If you are running Uber as a true taxi model no wonder you can't make money.


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## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> Sorry but it's still not accurate. Tires every year? Transmission and rad flushes on a new car are not yearly. Most don't need to be changed for 50,000 miles.
> 
> If you are running Uber as a true taxi model no wonder you can't make money.


I know $0.32 per mile is my costs... and that includes tires. But that doesn't mean I'm buying tires every year. $800 in tires lasts 48,000 miles for me, so I could go two, maybe three years before having to buy tires, while doing Uber part time. But my $0.32 per mile cost includes $0.0167 per mile in tire costs because that's the rate I'm consuming my tires for every mile I drive for Uber. All the poster you responded to is doing is claiming $0.56 per mile, and tires are a part of that. You and I agree that his amount is probably wrong, as it's higher than his costs really are, but he is using the right method to account for tire costs, even without buying tires every year.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> I know $0.32 per mile is my costs... and that includes tires. But that doesn't mean I'm buying tires every year. $800 in tires lasts 48,000 miles for me, so I could go two, maybe three years before having to buy tires, while doing Uber part time. But my $0.32 per mile cost includes $0.0167 per mile in tire costs because that's the rate I'm consuming my tires for every mile I drive for Uber. All the poster you responded to is doing is claiming $0.56 per mile, and tires are a part of that. You and I agree that his amount is probably wrong, as it's higher than his costs really are, but he is using the right method to account for tire costs, even without buying tires every year.


So true...the way one does it is universal but the truth comes from being accurate on what you claim and not inflating it to justify the end figure.


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## ubtight

Actionjax said:


> So true...the way one does it is universal but the truth comes from being accurate on what you claim and not inflating it to justify the end figure.


My point is that you need to be banking at least $0.24 per mile for a new vehicle purchase in about 3 years if you are driving 30 hours per week. I don't care how new your car is now. In three years, at 30 hours per week, your car will need to be replaced. Who wants to be driving around in a 2013 Ford in 2018 unless you want your star ratings to tank.

Of course by 2018 Uber's driverless cars might be on the road. At least you won't have to use your replacement car to drive any more. It should last a lot longer that way.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Currently Uber is still paying the weekly guarantees to the tune of close to a grand, net to driver, for a 54 hour week where I drive.

If they kept with it it actually is probably not a bad gig if you have a little car, don't mind the hours, can hit the fare requirements and could actually 'count on it' continuing. 

It's the last part that will probably pose an issue. Amounts to about $13 an hour after gas and a 'safe' insurance cost for a full timer, with the driver providing their ride in that figure.


----------



## Actionjax

ubtight said:


> My point is that you need to be banking at least $0.24 per mile for a new vehicle purchase in about 3 years if you are driving 30 hours per week. I don't care how new your car is now. In three years, at 30 hours per week, your car will need to be replaced. Who wants to be driving around in a 2013 Ford in 2018 unless you want your star ratings to tank.
> 
> Of course by 2018 Uber's driverless cars might be on the road. At least you won't have to use your replacement car to drive any more. It should last a lot longer that way.


Is that what your per mile rate is on a car lease? That's the best way to look at it. When you get the leasing rates tell them you want to buy miles into it. and then give you a buyout price. Makes your true rate much simpler. Just deduct the interest charges. That's the easy way to get your per mile cost.

It's about $400 for a 3 year lease with 20,000 miles per year allowance. $0.15 per mile you go over. That's a hybrid. model. When you are done you just give it back.

So $0.24 a mile is accurate from that standpoint on a net new car. Get one used it will drop.


----------



## ubtight

$14k for a new car. Haha.


----------



## williamjohnson

victor34 said:


> I hope one day everybody driving for Uber will understand what you mean!!!
> But if they were capable of understanding what you mean then they wouldn't be driving for Uber now
> Service business in the U.S without tip???? Perfect for cheap ppl...
> Only cheap or poor people are using Uber, they are trying to save $$$ by stealing your time/work/car/money...WAKE UP AND STOP DRIVING FOR UBER!!!


this is so true

hard to deal with kids taking them around, at least make it so that you can see how far they want to go before you accept them.


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## johnywinslow

Uber is a fantastic side /part time job. But a terrible full time job. fri sat and sun are the only days that you can make good money. mon-thurs. its not worth the time invested.


----------



## flyingdingo

jezhead said:


> On average, let's say 8 hours a day mon-fri, how much can i expect to bring home per day? I know it will vary greatly, just a ballpark figure?
> I'm in Toronto and awaiting activation.


You'll ruin your car.


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## Rajiv Edwards

So basically from what I am reading, if you're in a major city it is good to work for Uber but if not the rates are so low its not worth it??


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## williamjohnson

williamjohnson said:


> this is so true
> 
> hard to deal with kids taking them around, at least make it so that you can see how far they want to go before you accept them.


god i hate these idiot annoying kids.... and adults too lol they suck so bad gonna try lyft i think maybe.


----------

