# Swami Projection-Uber Bankrupt by 1/2018



## TwoFiddyMile

This is an Uber Quit thread.
I project that Uber will cripple itself within 13 months.
I don't think they will be "out of business"- I think they will file a long and tedious chapter 11 bankruptcy and hobble along crippled (just like K-Mart) for years and years.
Or MySpace.
I wonder if my MySpace account is still in place? 
I don't even remember what it was lol.
See, Uber just got outted this week as only charging pax 41℅ of real cost fares (meaning to pay the driver, Uber pulls from revenue and VC a whopping 59℅ to cover driver pay).

This is entirely unsustainable. One of these articles stated Uber lost 2 billion in 2016 (which is not quite over lol).
Let's look at non revenue numbers for a moment, shall we?
.Uber recieved 12 billion in VC
.Uber took out a junk loan of about 4 billion this year at a whopping 4.5℅ interest rate.

16 billion not counting revenue.
Losses of 2 billion per year.
In business since 2010.
Ouch!
Again not counting revenue, capital is almost gone.
And revenue is clearly a loss.
UBER PAYS 59 CENTS ON EVERY DOLLAR TO COVER VARIOUS DRIVER COSTS LIKE BOOST, GUARANTEES, RECRUITING AND LEGAL FEES.

Maybe I'll try and log on to MySpace.
Might even still be there.


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## Lowestformofwit

TwoFiddyMile said:


> This is an Uber Quit thread.
> I project that Uber will cripple itself within 13 months.


This will really bugger your countdown to the unlikely introduction of driverless cars by 1 January 2018, if this bankruptcy scenario plays out. 
How many days left? - till driverless cars & for Uber's current business model.
Don't forget - if you want a driverless car, send your downpayment in now.
Make cheques out to "Chapter 11 Car Sales".


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## TwoFiddyMile

I forgot all about the 2018 Driverless cars lie.
RamzFanz hasn't been mentioning it either, unless he's king of the new autonomous cars forum which I don't click on.
Thanks, mate!


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## tohunt4me

Lowestformofwit said:


> This will really bugger your countdown to the unlikely introduction of driverless cars by 1 January 2018, if this bankruptcy scenario plays out.
> How many days left? - till driverless cars & for Uber's current business model.
> Don't forget - if you want a driverless car, send your downpayment in now.
> Make cheques out to "Chapter 11 Car Sales".


Driverless cars are investor bait to attract new life support investors for UBER.


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## tohunt4me

TwoFiddyMile said:


> This is an Uber Quit thread.
> I project that Uber will cripple itself within 13 months.
> I don't think they will be "out of business"- I think they will file a long and tedious chapter 11 bankruptcy and hobble along crippled (just like K-Mart) for years and years.
> Or MySpace.
> I wonder if my MySpace account is still in place?
> I don't even remember what it was lol.
> See, Uber just got outted this week as only charging pax 41℅ of real cost fares (meaning to pay the driver, Uber pulls from revenue and VC a whopping 59℅ to cover driver pay).
> 
> This is entirely unsustainable. One of these articles stated Uber lost 2 billion in 2016 (which is not quite over lol).
> Let's look at non revenue numbers for a moment, shall we?
> .Uber recieved 12 billion in VC
> .Uber took out a junk loan of about 4 billion this year at a whopping 4.5℅ interest rate.
> 
> 16 billion not counting revenue.
> Losses of 2 billion per year.
> In business since 2010.
> Ouch!
> Again not counting revenue, capital is almost gone.
> And revenue is clearly a loss.
> UBER PAYS 59 CENTS ON EVERY DOLLAR TO COVER VARIOUS DRIVER COSTS LIKE BOOST, GUARANTEES, RECRUITING AND LEGAL FEES.
> 
> Maybe I'll try and log on to MySpace.
> Might even still be there.


An UBER Gold Star " Race to the Bottom" trophy for you !


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## TwoFiddyMile

392 days til 2018 and another 364 to truly hit that metric of actual autonomous cars with no babysitter in the front seat.
756 days til the 2018 prophecy of true robot cars is revealed to be a total sham.
Call it 757, give them new year's Eve to fill out the last possible moment til 2019.
Besides, I'm fairly confident Uber will be in K-MART hell by then.

K-MART on!


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## 123dragon

TwoFiddyMile said:


> This is an Uber Quit thread.
> I project that Uber will cripple itself within 13 months.
> I don't think they will be "out of business"- I think they will file a long and tedious chapter 11 bankruptcy and hobble along crippled (just like K-Mart) for years and years.
> Or MySpace.
> I wonder if my MySpace account is still in place?
> I don't even remember what it was lol.
> See, Uber just got outted this week as only charging pax 41℅ of real cost fares (meaning to pay the driver, Uber pulls from revenue and VC a whopping 59℅ to cover driver pay).
> 
> This is entirely unsustainable. One of these articles stated Uber lost 2 billion in 2016 (which is not quite over lol).
> Let's look at non revenue numbers for a moment, shall we?
> .Uber recieved 12 billion in VC
> .Uber took out a junk loan of about 4 billion this year at a whopping 4.5℅ interest rate.
> 
> 16 billion not counting revenue.
> Losses of 2 billion per year.
> In business since 2010.
> Ouch!
> Again not counting revenue, capital is almost gone.
> And revenue is clearly a loss.
> UBER PAYS 59 CENTS ON EVERY DOLLAR TO COVER VARIOUS DRIVER COSTS LIKE BOOST, GUARANTEES, RECRUITING AND LEGAL FEES.
> 
> Maybe I'll try and log on to MySpace.
> Might even still be there.


From financial times:
"Thus Uber's current operations depend on $2 billion in subsidies, funded out of the $13 billion in cash its investors have provided."

https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/12/01/2180647/the-taxi-unicorns-new-clothes/

Even if that level of spending remains in place they are going to be able to last 6 more years at this burn rate. They will probably continue to do that to gather the data to have the self driving cars in cities. Which is when they are projected to come out around 2020.


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## TwoFiddyMile

123dragon said:


> From financial times:
> "Thus Uber's current operations depend on $2 billion in subsidies, funded out of the $13 billion in cash its investors have provided."
> 
> https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/12/01/2180647/the-taxi-unicorns-new-clothes/
> 
> Even if that level of spending remains in place they are going to be able to last 6 more years at this burn rate. They will probably continue to do that to gather the data to have the self driving cars in cities. Which is when they are projected to come out around 2020.


You forgot the other 5 years since 2010.
Who knows how much cash they burned through paying lawyers to break laws and paying lawmakers to create them.


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## tohunt4me

123dragon said:


> From financial times:
> "Thus Uber's current operations depend on $2 billion in subsidies, funded out of the $13 billion in cash its investors have provided."
> 
> https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/12/01/2180647/the-taxi-unicorns-new-clothes/
> 
> Even if that level of spending remains in place they are going to be able to last 6 more years at this burn rate. They will probably continue to do that to gather the data to have the self driving cars in cities. Which is when they are projected to come out around 2020.


They better start paying g taxes to fund my social security.
Since they will be replacing Millions of workers with autonomous ships,planes trains,busses,transport trucks and vehicles. If UBER & industry eliminate tens of millions of workers,they damn well better be paying TAXES to fund the programs I paid into and was promised I could rely upon as a Citizen !


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## Lowestformofwit

"Ziggy Travis played for time, 
Jiving us that.....".


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## TwoFiddyMile

Lowestformofwit said:


> "Ziggy Travis played for time,
> Jiving us that.....".


"...we were doodoo..."


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## Mars Troll Number 4

Honestly... this isn't' as crazy as it sounds.

Uber has contractors suing because they feel they aren't getting paid enough, and running at a massive loss, while not actually bringing in enough money to pay their contractors.


So if Uber just decided to remove all incentive programs effective 1/1/2017,

They could balance out their budget.


The question is what's going to happen once Uber does this?


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## jester121

If they also increased rates by 20% they'd lose very little in terms of revenue. At this point the Ubering public isnt very price sensitive, and that's still cheaper than a taxi. They could increase driver pay by 20%, screw the confusing incentive BS, and also increase their cut by 20%.


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## Steven Ambrose

It really does take one's breath away. Uber, in format and from the side of providing a service, was really a great idea. It was an answer to the dinosaur known as a taxi service. Then the rate cuts occurred and in the process, they were cutting their own fee collections from the partner's pay. If rates would have stayed at $1.25 to $1.50 per mile, the business model would have been sustainable. Many markets, especially in Florida, does not even break $1 a mile.


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## Drivincrazy

Uber x Las Vegas is 90cents/mile. Lyft Line is 83 cents/mile & 10 cents per minute. One pax said: "no more Lyft Line....they made me late for work!...I don't wanna share my ride or go off on a wild goose/traffic jam chase to find a pax that might or might not be there. I'll pay the extra."


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## Jermin8r89

Uber is a start up for self driveing. Much like apple was start up for smartphones. As iphones stayed blahh android and samsung have surpassed apple (not anymore with samsung batteries blowing up) it paved ways for other companies to expand on androd as they were smart enough to have samsung and HTC jump on for androds model to be more customization as apple for simplicity. 

Uber has to get a full foot in the door amd have these cars on the road so they can have a shot at staying alive then they can get government help and other places like ford to give them real-estate. As long as they have higher demand then all other rideshare companies i expect them to still be number 1 even by end of 2017. Once google gets fully evolved then that should almost put end to uber but i dont see them looseing out as they got amazon behind them and amazon would save money instead of getting trucks.


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## elelegido

TwoFiddyMile said:


> See, Uber just got outted this week as only charging pax 41℅ of real cost fares (meaning to pay the driver, Uber pulls from revenue and VC a whopping 59℅ to cover driver pay).


The author's math was wrong. Uber pax are actually paying 79% of the total ride cost, not 41%. None of the media picked up on this error and just regurgitated the story and rebroadcast it without fact checking it.


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## elelegido

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I forgot all about the 2018 Driverless cars lie.
> RamzFanz hasn't been mentioning it either, unless he's king of the new autonomous cars forum which I don't click on.
> Thanks, mate!


He'd say that Uber could introduce fully operational SDC at any time they choose - Johnny Cab is ready now - it's just that Uber chooses not to use them at this time. Just like they could "flip the profitability switch" right now and become instantly profitable if they chose, lol


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## MBENZ_GUY

I know I'm late to this conversation, but agree with TwoFiddlyMile. Uber never made drivers a pillar of their business. Drivers are expendables, someone to be tolerated. This attitude comes from the top down. Uber needs to fire the CEO (who probably has his golden parachute on ready) and restructure. They gotta do right by the drivers and this whole ride share thing becomes much easier.


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## Buckiemohawk

Steven Ambrose said:


> It really does take one's breath away. Uber, in format and from the side of providing a service, was really a great idea. It was an answer to the dinosaur known as a taxi service. Then the rate cuts occurred and in the process, they were cutting their own fee collections from the partner's pay. If rates would have stayed at $1.25 to $1.50 per mile, the business model would have been sustainable. Many markets, especially in Florida, does not even break $1 a mile.


They would have so many cabbies switching over with sustainable rates. They don't even understand. Even in the beginning many cabbies switched over.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

Buckiemohawk said:


> They would have so many cabbies switching over with sustainable rates. They don't even understand. Even in the beginning many cabbies switched over.


I switched over but switched back when the rates got too low..


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## TwoFiddyMile

Buckiemohawk said:


> They would have so many cabbies switching over with sustainable rates. They don't even understand. Even in the beginning many cabbies switched over.


I'd Uber for $1.50 per mile and up.
$1.50 x, $$2.00 XL and I'd at least have a 2nd minivan set up for Uber.
Ain't ever gonna happen.


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## MBENZ_GUY

Buckiemohawk said:


> They would have so many cabbies switching over with sustainable rates. They don't even understand. Even in the beginning many cabbies switched over.


All it takes is one cycle of tax filing to see how much you're really earning.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

MBENZ_GUY said:


> All it takes is one cycle of tax filing to see how much you're really earning.


Or losing... as it is in the Orlando market. Last year i was sitting at a gas station and a random guy walks up to my cab to ask a tax question...

and he thought he did something wrong because it was showing him losing over $6,000 or so on paper, his math was right.


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## MBENZ_GUY

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Or losing... as it is in the Orlando market. Last year i was sitting at a gas station and a random guy walks up to my cab to ask a tax question...
> and he thought he did something wrong because it was showing him losing over $6,000 or so on paper, his math was right.


I lost over $6K last year too. Lol. The cash flow was nice but essentially I was extracting equity from my car. The wear n tear plus depreciation ate up all my earnings and then some.


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## stephan

Uber never loose,they charge the pax Lest Say 6$ Driver Get 3$ paying the drivers 50-75 percent, uber got 50 -30 percent all the time, they got billions and they spend millions, ,these ppl are smart ,when a company want to change the business or kick the workers without paying them or paying taxes or flying away from cases filled against them they find easy ways to go bankruptcy ,after they show up under an other name, like you said guys replacing drivers with robots lol


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## Mars Troll Number 4

stephan said:


> Uber never loose,they charge the pax Lest Say 6$ Driver Get 3$ paying the drivers 50-75 percent, uber got 50 -30 percent all the time, they got billions and they spend millions, ,these ppl are smart ,when a company want to change the business or kick the workers without paying them or paying taxes or flying away from cases filled against them they find easy ways to go bankruptcy ,after they show up under an other name, like you said guys replacing drivers with robots lol


No uber definitly P$(($ed away WAY more than they brought in last year LOL...

Billions in billions out... more investors needed.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> No uber definitly P$(($ed away WAY more than they brought in last year LOL...
> 
> Billions in billions out... more investors needed.


Id be worried about Saudi Arabia as the money dries up. Hassan CHOP!


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## stephan

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> No uber definitly P$(($ed away WAY more than they brought in last year LOL...
> 
> Billions in billions out... more investors needed.


No ,uber didn't loose even if they spend billions, they made trillion. ,it's just an app, does the taxi app made millions? Uber is a scam driving company that employees drivers for free , no taxes no social security no gas no car maintenance no bullshit, uber if they fill bankruptcy, they will remplace drivers but smart cars ,and they are done by million drivers over the world. example, they spend one billion, they already save hide 2 billions, an other example they say we spend 200 billions in advertising. ..actually they spend 100 billions, do you think all companies pay the correct taxes? No way . Of every one and every company pay the correct taxes this country will be fine and the middle and low class categories of society will be fine. But since only the middle class who pay taxes ,we are becoming a slaves, Europe in the 16 18 century, they fought for this, they used to work 7 days just to eat and sleep, now days we are in the same situation, for drivers in a rate of $1 or less has to work 50-60 hours to pay te bills, we work for companies to get stronger and richer, and greedier, the solution is that we have to sacrifice ,most work no oohing untill we get fair decent pay and companies like uber walmart. ...using ppl for no benifits, we must note a certain a date in face book to go in strike for a week , message to all workers who earn less than 15$ /hour ,everything become expensive,minimum wages has to be no less than $15, and uberx no less than 2$/mile. Deal.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

stephan said:


> No ,uber didn't loose even if they spend billions, they made trillion. ,it's just an app, does the taxi app made millions? Uber is a scam driving company that employees drivers for free , no taxes no social security no gas no car maintenance no bullshit, uber if they fill bankruptcy, they will remplace drivers but smart cars ,and they are done by million drivers over the world. example, they spend one billion, they already save hide 2 billions, an other example they say we spend 200 billions in advertising. ..actually they spend 100 billions, do you think all companies pay the correct taxes? No way . Of every one and every company pay the correct taxes this country will be fine and the middle and low class categories of society will be fine. But since only the middle class who pay taxes ,we are becoming a slaves, Europe in the 16 18 century, they fought for this, they used to work 7 days just to eat and sleep, now days we are in the same situation, for drivers in a rate of $1 or less has to work 50-60 hours to pay te bills, we work for companies to get stronger and richer, and greedier, the solution is that we have to sacrifice ,most work no oohing untill we get fair decent pay and companies like uber walmart. ...using ppl for no benifits, we must note a certain a date in face book to go in strike for a week , message to all workers who earn less than 15$ /hour ,everything become expensive,minimum wages has to be no less than $15, and uberx no less than 2$/mile. Deal.


Well if Uber was profitable... would they?

A. not be borrowing money and paying interest on it.
B. wouldn't be getting more investors, thus watering down their personal stake in the company
C. would be shouting the world how much money they are making to increase the IPO
D. would have had the IPO and sold all their stocks, as the company can't grow much more than it has and massive number of lawsuits spell disaster.
E. All of the above?


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## phillipzx3

At least Travis will have someone close to him experienced in bankruptcy. Trump knows bankruptcy "bigger and better" than anyone. ;-)


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## KMANDERSON

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You forgot the other 5 years since 2010.
> Who knows how much cash they burned through paying lawyers to break laws and paying lawmakers to create them.


Im still trying to figure out how uber got away with we are not a transportation compay,we are technology company.How there able to say that and get past regulation such as finger print background checks.It just show me how corrupt our local cites are.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

KMANDERSON said:


> Im still trying to figure out how uber got away with we are not a transportation compay,we are technology company.How there able to say that and get past regulation such as finger print background checks.It just show me how corrupt our local cites are.


It's not necessarily corruption, it's inability to regulate as well, if uber actually played by the rules in Orlando, it would be one of the highest rates in the world.
(the City of Orlando set the Rates for ride sharing at $2.40 a mile, the same rates as taxis)

As it stands the actual rate is the second lowest North Mexico. (Actual rates .65c a mile, or just 27% of the rate the city set)

Orlando still catches uber drivers every day and they nail them with tickets, impound cars, and uber just doesn't care that the rules exist and the city can't really control them.


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## shiftydrake

Here in St Louis people still use Uber cuz it is still fairly new but about 1/2 used it as the new toy in town and after being burnt too many times by surge they have started coming back to taxis.....slowly anyway I mean a lot if the regular Uber users are college kids on parents credit card so that's fine Uber can have them idiots.......but alit of the pro a I give rides to say they would NEVER ride Uber cuz the have no idea who the driver is they say "at least I know your background check is clear and your drug free and can physically do the job.......we don't know ANYTHING about them dumb Uber drivers could be criminals or on drugs or whatever........

I smile and say yes ma'am/sir competition is great as long as we ALL have to follow SAME rules


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## TwoFiddyMile

Thank you Jeff Jones for bringing this thread back...


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## Lowestformofwit

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Thank you Jeff Jones for bringing this thread back...


Might be time to also revive your thread on the countdown to 1 January 2018 for Uber's autonomous cars. There's always some mileage in them, even if it's only 0.8 thereof, between interventions.


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## shiftydrake

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Thank you Jeff Jones for bringing this thread back...


TwoFiddyMile! Welcome back haven't seen you in awhile


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## TwoFiddyMile

shiftydrake said:


> TwoFiddyMile! Welcome back haven't seen you in awhile


I painted my cab. Pretty sure I work for the same conglomerate now that you contract with. They have franchises in Charlotte, St Louis, Houston, Miami, and at least 10 other cities.
It's cool to be too busy to post 
But alas, it's a Monday and sadly there's a lull in pings.



Lowestformofwit said:


> Might be time to also revive your thread on the countdown to 1 January 2018 for Uber's autonomous cars. There's always some mileage in them, even if it's only 0.8 thereof, between interventions.


I think with the Alphabet lawsuit, Uber can kiss it's robot tech goodbye.


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## Jagent

You might have been too generous in your original prediction. The crash could happen any day now.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Jagent said:


> You might have been too generous in your original prediction. The crash could happen any day now.


Works for me.
Keep in mind, I stated "BY 1/2018".
Implies on or before.


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## shiftydrake

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Works for me.
> Keep in mind, I stated "BY 1/2018".
> Implies on or before.


I'm with you I hear all the time "I will never ride Uber cuz I don't trust them".....


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## Jo3030

Lyft is destroying Uber w/ the folks that have a conscience. 
It's crazy!


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## The Mollusk

I can verify that there's a slew of pax out there that won't take Uber because of "trust issues". 

Took an Uber ride the other night in which the driver was continuously bombarded with pings. As a driver I was quite jealous. 

I'm 50/50 on whether the Uber Unicorn will just up and disappear one of these days. There's an incredibly simple solution; raise rates. Make them about -20% of a regular taxi and people still use Uber in droves. I think the investors at Uber will have to force kalanick out first, he's responsible for a toxic culture that seems like it can't pull itself out of its tailspin. Especially treating their employees/drivers the way they do. An incredible lack of respect, con job.


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick

.

This is kinda how my meetings went with Jeff Jones.

I ain't fixen nothing!


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## iUBERdc

TwoFiddyMile said:


> This is an Uber Quit thread.
> I project that Uber will cripple itself within 13 months.
> I don't think they will be "out of business"- I think they will file a long and tedious chapter 11 bankruptcy and hobble along crippled (just like K-Mart) for years and years.
> Or MySpace.
> I wonder if my MySpace account is still in place?
> I don't even remember what it was lol.
> See, Uber just got outted this week as only charging pax 41℅ of real cost fares (meaning to pay the driver, Uber pulls from revenue and VC a whopping 59℅ to cover driver pay).
> 
> This is entirely unsustainable. One of these articles stated Uber lost 2 billion in 2016 (which is not quite over lol).
> Let's look at non revenue numbers for a moment, shall we?
> .Uber recieved 12 billion in VC
> .Uber took out a junk loan of about 4 billion this year at a whopping 4.5℅ interest rate.
> 
> 16 billion not counting revenue.
> Losses of 2 billion per year.
> In business since 2010.
> Ouch!
> Again not counting revenue, capital is almost gone.
> And revenue is clearly a loss.
> UBER PAYS 59 CENTS ON EVERY DOLLAR TO COVER VARIOUS DRIVER COSTS LIKE BOOST, GUARANTEES, RECRUITING AND LEGAL FEES.
> 
> Maybe I'll try and log on to MySpace.
> Might even still be there.


SDC will fix it and get costs way down and bring massive profitability ....


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## TwoFiddyMile

Lol


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## Drivincrazy

In Las Vegas...SDCS @ 8 mph...taxis @ 38 mph. Who you gonna' take? LOL.


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## Lowestformofwit

iUBERdc said:


> SDC will fix it and get costs way down and bring massive profitability ....


Sarcasm alert?


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## TwoFiddyMile

Lowestformofwit said:


> Sarcasm alert?


Sadly, probably not.


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## crazytown

Haven't driven in 2 and 1/2 months ..done and washed Uber out of my life ...if your still driving for this evil thieving company you need to start crunching some numbers ..its not worth it ..I stop in here from time to time to laugh at all the idiots still driving and Uber constanly in the news ..its a joke ..just look at your taxes if that isnt enough to quit..

I realy do think the cabs with get their service back and Uber will go up in flames..


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## iUBERdc

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Sadly, probably not.


Of course do I need /s?


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## SMH Uber

When this thread was originally posted. It was prior to the current scandals:

-Travis' rant caught on video.
-Travis supporting Trump
-The sexual harassment allegations by a developer.
-The #deleteuber movement
-The price gouging during the taxi protect against Muslim ban.

...And a host of many other things in the last 3 months Feb -April.

I hope the original poster is right. Travis does not deserve the drivers. I hope it crashes and burns prior to 2018. My hope is other rideshare companies take heed and learn from the mistakes of Travis and implement changes that favor the driver.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Almost halfway through 2017. Things are going well towards my Swami prediction.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Almost halfway through 2017. Things are going well towards my Swami prediction.


Once uber starts losing these high profile BILLION$ lawsuits it will rapidly collapse. I have seen nothing that makes me believe that uber isn't guilty of every single one...

A LOT of employees are cutting and running. The rats are fleeing the sinking ship.


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## Cynergie

tohunt4me said:


> Driverless cars are investor bait to attract new life support investors for UBER.


On the other hand, the several prototypes they're testing on the roads here in SF "appear" to be working as intended. In which case, bankruptcy is the ideal legal vehicle for Travis to eliminate millions of independent contractor driver jos--and save investors billions in cost while he revamps/rolls out a new business model. As independent contractors we drivers are both a blessing and curse for rideshare companies. On one hand, we're critical for company revenues and growth. Lyft's exponential penetration and branding in the SF market has proved this. On the other, we're an onerous burden where expenditure and liabilities are concerned. Driverless cars would permanently eliminate a very big migraine for Travis and his investors in the future.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Cynergie said:


> On the other hand, the several prototypes they're testing on the roads here in SF "appear" to be working as intended. In which case, bankruptcy is the ideal legal vehicle for Travis to eliminate millions of independent contractor driver jos--and save investors billions in cost while he revamps/rolls out a new business model. As independent contractors we drivers are both a blessing and curse for rideshare companies. On one hand, we're critical for company revenues and growth. Lyft's exponential penetration and branding in the SF market has proved this. On the other, we're an onerous burden where expenditure and liabilities are concerned. Driverless cars would permanently eliminate a very big migraine for Travis and his investors in the future.


You are aware of the Waymo lawsuit????


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## Cynergie

Yes and Travis has the luck of Lucifer + 9 lives to date.

So I'm betting my non existent weekly bonus on a Waymo loss


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## Aneed Momoney

Hope it crashes soon


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## Rex8976

Cynergie said:


> Yes and Travis has the luck of Lucifer + 9 lives to date.
> 
> So I'm betting my non existent weekly bonus on a Waymo loss


Luck runs out this time. Waymo has a deeper bench to pull from and won't wince when Uber swings.

Travis can't buy his way out of this one.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Rex8976 said:


> Luck runs out this time. Waymo has a deeper bench to pull from and won't wince when Uber swings.
> 
> Travis can't buy his way out of this one.
> 
> View attachment 120308


"Sir...avoid the clam CHOWDER..."


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## Mars Troll Number 4

TwoFiddyMile said:


> "Sir...avoid the clam CHOWDER..."


And here i was thinking to avoid the special


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## Bluecrab

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Almost halfway through 2017. Things are going well towards my Swami prediction.


This new TOS agreement that allows uber to charge any upfront fare the pax will accept and still pay driver base mileage and time is a game changer. Past couple of days on this crap shows uber charging pax surge rates and not passing along any $$ to driver.

I'm not going to play along.


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## Cynergie

How are you not playing along with this latest subterfuge act of butt piracy by Travis, when you've clearly got financial obligations to meet?

Edit: what's the daily cap on the max $$$$ that drivers can now make?



TwoFiddyMile said:


> This is an Uber Quit thread.
> I project that Uber will cripple itself within 13 months.
> I don't think they will be "out of business"- I think they will file a long and tedious chapter 11 bankruptcy and hobble along crippled (just like K-Mart) for years and years.
> Or MySpace.
> I wonder if my MySpace account is still in place?
> I don't even remember what it was lol.
> See, Uber just got outted this week as only charging pax 41℅ of real cost fares (meaning to pay the driver, Uber pulls from revenue and VC a whopping 59℅ to cover driver pay).
> 
> This is entirely unsustainable. One of these articles stated Uber lost 2 billion in 2016 (which is not quite over lol).
> Let's look at non revenue numbers for a moment, shall we?
> .Uber recieved 12 billion in VC
> .Uber took out a junk loan of about 4 billion this year at a whopping 4.5℅ interest rate.
> 
> 16 billion not counting revenue.
> Losses of 2 billion per year.
> In business since 2010.
> Ouch!
> Again not counting revenue, capital is almost gone.
> And revenue is clearly a loss.
> UBER PAYS 59 CENTS ON EVERY DOLLAR TO COVER VARIOUS DRIVER COSTS LIKE BOOST, GUARANTEES, RECRUITING AND LEGAL FEES.
> 
> Maybe I'll try and log on to MySpace.
> Might even still be there.


How much do you want to bet their 6 figure + employee & executive salaries (Especially here im SF) are being drawn from revenues? LMAO


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## NapsterSA

Bluecrab said:


> This new TOS agreement that allows uber to charge any upfront fare the pax will accept and still pay driver base mileage and time is a game changer. Past couple of days on this crap shows uber charging pax surge rates and not passing along any $$ to driver.
> 
> I'm not going to play along.


Does the "Rider Pays" section of your trip reports actually show surge amount (as a separate line item)? I had a good mix of regular and surge rides this weekend and only seeing the rider payment amount, but no breakdown of regular/surge amounts except on my payment section of the report.

I like the new format, but must admit that seeing the higher upfront pricing windfall to Uber is a bit disheartening... demotivating, really. My reports are showing approx between 35% and 45% to Uber. Pax are oblivious and seem content, so obviously the strategy is working.


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## Bluecrab

NapsterSA said:


> Does the "Rider Pays" section of your trip reports actually show surge amount (as a separate line item)? .


No, it's not showing a surge, yet that's essentially what the rider is being charged. There is a frequent trip in my area, have probably driven this route over 30 times. It's always paid me $6 on non-surge, and up to $12 when the area is surging.

With my $6 payment I'd guess the rider was charged $10, with uber taking $2 as safety fee and then 25% of the $8. This gave me $6 and uber $4. This weekend under new TOS I could see uber charging rider $13, giving me $6 and keeping $7. That's a surge price to the rider and base pay to the driver.

I've not driven since.


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## NapsterSA

Okay, got it... 54% definitely looks like a surge. 

My beef is that Uber is taking 46% of the minimal ride fee. They should give the entire "min fare supplement" to the driver or at least raise the fee so that a driver never makes less than $5 for ride. I've had a couple of repeat short trip riders tell me that some area drivers are canceling once they see (and recognize) their name.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Everyone makes mistakes.


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## UberDriverGIG

TwoFiddyMile said:


> This is an Uber Quit thread.
> I project that Uber will cripple itself within 13 months.
> I don't think they will be "out of business"- I think they will file a long and tedious chapter 11 bankruptcy and hobble along crippled (just like K-Mart) for years and years.
> Or MySpace.
> I wonder if my MySpace account is still in place?
> I don't even remember what it was lol.
> See, Uber just got outted this week as only charging pax 41℅ of real cost fares (meaning to pay the driver, Uber pulls from revenue and VC a whopping 59℅ to cover driver pay).
> 
> This is entirely unsustainable. One of these articles stated Uber lost 2 billion in 2016 (which is not quite over lol).
> Let's look at non revenue numbers for a moment, shall we?
> .Uber recieved 12 billion in VC
> .Uber took out a junk loan of about 4 billion this year at a whopping 4.5℅ interest rate.
> 
> 16 billion not counting revenue.
> Losses of 2 billion per year.
> In business since 2010.
> Ouch!
> Again not counting revenue, capital is almost gone.
> And revenue is clearly a loss.
> UBER PAYS 59 CENTS ON EVERY DOLLAR TO COVER VARIOUS DRIVER COSTS LIKE BOOST, GUARANTEES, RECRUITING AND LEGAL FEES.
> 
> Maybe I'll try and log on to MySpace.
> Might even still be there.


I understand the hate for Uber but no way are they going out of business. There IPO will bring them more money and once the driverless cars replace the drivers and they make more deals with restaurants for Uber Eats. They will be making money hand over fist. They already have a few driverless freight trucks and they are planning on buying some restaurants to make even more money.


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## TwoFiddyMile

UberDriverGIG said:


> I understand the hate for Uber but no way are they going out of business. There IPO will bring them more money and once the driverless cars replace the drivers and they make more deals with restaurants for Uber Eats. They will be making money hand over fist. They already have a few driverless freight trucks and they are planning on buying some restaurants to make even more money.


and when pray tell are these driverless cars going to emerge? You do realize they have scrapped the driverless car project don't you?


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## UberDriverGIG

TwoFiddyMile said:


> and when pray tell are these driverless cars going to emerge? You do realize they have scrapped the driverless car project don't you?


Where does it say that they scrapped them?


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## TwoFiddyMile

The last known Uber test program was Arizona. And then this happened:
https://www.lctmag.com/news/729880/uber-scraps-driverless-program-in-arizona


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## tc49821

It's Jan 2018,uber still kicking .


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## TwoFiddyMile

tc49821 said:


> It's Jan 2018,uber still kicking .


Do you wash your sock puppets, or do they just get sticky and smelly?

I wasn't anticipating the SoftBank investment. Also they sold off some of their assets in the form of private shares. They are still rapidly approaching bankruptcy and have to come up with some other scheme to raise Capital any second.


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## Drivincrazy

I think I'll get a job as an Uber cook and pay myself back with some Uber lobster.


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## Drivincrazy

What did Travis, Garret and Dara think would happen when you turned driver/partners into adversaries? Bad karma at a minimum. Uber, you didn't need to go for all rides on planet Earth...that's what cost you. SDCs? I'll believe their profitability when I see it. GL.


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## Rushmanyyz

Drivincrazy said:


> What did Travis, Garret and Dara think would happen when you turned driver/partners into adversaries? Bad karma at a minimum. Uber, you didn't need to go for all rides on planet Earth...that's what cost you. SDCs? I'll believe their profitability when I see it. GL.


Wow... talk about clueless.



TwoFiddyMile said:


> Do you wash your sock puppets, or do they just get sticky and smelly?
> 
> I wasn't anticipating the SoftBank investment. Also they sold off some of their assets in the form of private shares. They are still rapidly approaching bankruptcy and have to come up with some other scheme to raise Capital any second.


It's 2019 and they are about to become an IPO. Lmfao. You got this one wrong boyo.


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## Buckiemohawk

Rushmanyyz said:


> Wow... talk about clueless.
> 
> It's 2019 and they are about to become an IPO. Lmfao. You got this one wrong boyo.


They just talked about not doing the IPO lol


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## TwoFiddyMile

Rushmanyyz said:


> Wow... talk about clueless.
> 
> It's 2019 and they are about to become an IPO. Lmfao. You got this one wrong boyo.


THEY JUST RECINDED THE IPO BOYO!


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## Rushmanyyz

TwoFiddyMile said:


> THEY JUST RECINDED THE IPO BOYO!


This makes me facepalm.

I'll leave it to you to figure out why, later.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Rushmanyyz said:


> This makes me facepalm.
> 
> I'll leave it to you to figure out why, later.


Nah.


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## Lowestformofwit

TwoFiddyMile - looks like you missed the 1/2018 bankruptcy date.
Never mind - they're still trading on the brink of insolvency.
Only takes one or two loan call-ins to flick the switch.


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## ST DYMPHNA son

TwoFiddyMile said:


> This is an Uber Quit thread.
> I project that Uber will cripple itself within 13 months.
> I don't think they will be "out of business"- I think they will file a long and tedious chapter 11 bankruptcy and hobble along crippled (just like K-Mart) for years and years.
> Or MySpace.
> I wonder if my MySpace account is still in place?
> I don't even remember what it was lol.
> See, Uber just got outted this week as only charging pax 41℅ of real cost fares (meaning to pay the driver, Uber pulls from revenue and VC a whopping 59℅ to cover driver pay).
> 
> This is entirely unsustainable. One of these articles stated Uber lost 2 billion in 2016 (which is not quite over lol).
> Let's look at non revenue numbers for a moment, shall we?
> .Uber recieved 12 billion in VC
> .Uber took out a junk loan of about 4 billion this year at a whopping 4.5℅ interest rate.
> 
> 16 billion not counting revenue.
> Losses of 2 billion per year.
> In business since 2010.
> Ouch!
> Again not counting revenue, capital is almost gone.
> And revenue is clearly a loss.
> UBER PAYS 59 CENTS ON EVERY DOLLAR TO COVER VARIOUS DRIVER COSTS LIKE BOOST, GUARANTEES, RECRUITING AND LEGAL FEES.
> 
> Maybe I'll try and log on to MySpace.
> Might even still be there.


...2019 and going strong...
...uber strategy of new recruitment worked perfectly...


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## Yam Digger

Lowestformofwit said:


> @TwoFiddyMile - looks like you missed the 1/2018 bankruptcy date


Well, he may have been off by a few years about the bankruptcy, but he's bang on the money about the Autonomous Vehicle no-show.


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## tohunt4me

Meanwhile
Lyft becomes a" PENNY STOCK " !


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## KMANDERSON

tohunt4me said:


> Meanwhile
> Lyft becomes a" PENNY STOCK " !


The problem with lyft is they are not replacing Logan green and John Zimmer.They need new management.


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## Lowestformofwit

KMANDERSON said:


> The problem with lyft is they are not replacing Logan green and John Zimmer.They need new management.


But can they get it?
The weighted voting of the shares held by those two allows them to control the show, no matter how many other shareholders might be looking to overthrow them in the interests of better management.
So "penny stocks" indeed - for every other shareholder.
Wonder if those Zimmer and Green shares can be sold with those controlling votes attached? They'd be the only ones taking the risk on.


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## KMANDERSON

Lowestformofwit said:


> But can they get it?
> The weighted voting of the shares held by those two allows them to control the show, no matter how many other shareholders might be looking to overthrow them in the interests of better management.
> So "penny stocks" indeed - for every other shareholder.
> Wonder if those Zimmer and Green shares can be sold with those controlling votes attached? They'd be the only ones taking the risk on.


Yeah they pulled a fast one before they went public.Both them only own seven percent of lyft so they must of seen them getting forced out.The fact that lyft never went into food delivery should be enough reason to get rid of them.As much money as uber x losses they are profitable with eats.Uber will never see that profit because uber x losses.Food unlike Rideshare is profitable.


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## The Texan

UE is maybe profitable for Fubar. What about the drivers? 
My research on driving for UE, etc. will likely have me never have even tried it.


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## KMANDERSON

The Texan said:


> UE is maybe profitable for Fubar. What about the drivers?
> My research on driving for UE, etc. will likely have me never have even tried it.


Well that another story.Grubhub is good app to drive with.


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## TwoFiddyMile

Wow. Couldn't have been more wrong.
Uber/Lyft still going and screwing drivers worse than ever.

I now predict I have no idea what this will be like a year from now.


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## KMANDERSON

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Wow. Couldn't have been more wrong.
> Uber/Lyft still going and screwing drivers worse than ever.
> 
> I now predict I have no idea what this will be like a year from now.


It amazes me that people still drive for .60 a mile.


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## goneubering

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Wow. Couldn't have been more wrong.
> Uber/Lyft still going and screwing drivers worse than ever.
> 
> I now predict I have no idea what this will be like a year from now.


That's honest. Nobody knows for sure what will happen a year from now but multi-billion dollar companies very rarely just go poof and vanish.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn

KMANDERSON said:


> It amazes me that people still drive for .60 a mile.


Not everyone gets 60c a mile.

Highway speed Orlando is 53c a mile and 8c per minute, at 75 MPH is less than 60c total.


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## KMANDERSON

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Not everyone gets 60c a mile.
> 
> Highway speed Orlando is 53c a mile and 8c per minute, at 75 MPH is less than 60c total.


Wow


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## SurgeMasterMN

It is going to be interesting how this all pans out in the next year. I was considering an upgraded vehicle but still have some life left in mine to push it to 260-270k miles before March 2020. I am in a holding pattern to see how low the rates go and if this whole industry will be useless in a year. Bankruptcy of one of the big two is def a possibility in the near future.


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## goneubering

tohunt4me said:


> Meanwhile
> Lyft becomes a" PENNY STOCK " !


I doubt it. We're at the beginning of Lyft's public run but it closed around $58 per share today.

Edit. $58.36 to be exact.


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## Roadmasta

My market still has the old surge. They also have quest to make rides more profitable. When they get rid of these, I'm gone like the wind. The driver pool will run out one-day, hard to predict when but it will happen. My guess is they are trying to keep drivers until self driving cars are cheaper than drivers. I hope safety issues arise and they will go under.


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## goneubering

SurgeMasterMN said:


> It is going to be interesting how this all pans out in the next year. I was considering an upgraded vehicle but still have some life left in mine to push it to 260-270k miles before March 2020. I am in a holding pattern to see how low the rates go and if this whole industry will be useless in a year. Bankruptcy of one of the big two is def a possibility in the near future.


Even if Uber or Lyft goes bankrupt we will still have rideshare.


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## Yam Digger

goneubering said:


> Even if Uber or Lyft goes bankrupt we will still have rideshare.


That is so true. Uber and Lyft might not be around in a couple of years; but the rideshare industry is here to stay. That genie will not be going back into the bottle anytime soon.


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## Launchpad McQuack

KMANDERSON said:


> As much money as uber x losses they are profitable with eats.


What are you basing this on? I have never seen any reports where Uber has broken their profits/losses down by individual services.


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## KMANDERSON

Launchpad McQuack said:


> What are you basing this on? I have never seen any reports where Uber has broken their profits/losses down by individual services.


Uber has said the uber eats side is profitable but you are correct we will fine out once they go public .My point is unlike rideshare which will never be profitable food delivery is.


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## Launchpad McQuack

KMANDERSON said:


> My point is unlike rideshare which will never be profitable food delivery is.


My point is that we don't know that. Without the numbers to back it up, it could just be creative accounting or outright lying on their part. Even after they go public, I'm not sure that we'll know. I'm not sure that publicly traded companies are required to disclose their finances down to that level of detail (allocating profits and losses to various segments of their business operations). I'm not sure to what level of detail they are required to disclose.


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## NotanEmployee

TwoFiddyMile said:


> See, Uber just got outted this week as only charging pax 41℅ of real cost fares (meaning to pay the driver, Uber pulls from revenue and VC a whopping 59℅ to cover driver pay).


I keep seeing this type of thing and it makes me laugh. UBER DOES NOT PAY DRIVERS! We are not an expense for them. DRIVERS (through our payment processor Uber) collect 100% of the fare. (Shown on our annual 1099) from that fare, WE PAY UBER (through direct deduction from the passenger fare) their fee. That fee they collect is THEIR INCOME. If uber pays us anything not connected to fares it would be cleaning fees (paid for by riders) bonuses and promotions. I, for one did not get shit for signing up. The person that referred me got $100 after I completed 25 rides. I'd bet the largest driver expense they have is lawsuits followed by insurance.


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## KMANDERSON

Launchpad McQuack said:


> My point is that we don't know that. Without the numbers to back it up, it could just be creative accounting or outright lying on their part. Even after they go public, I'm not sure that we'll know. I'm not sure that publicly traded companies are required to disclose their finances down to that level of detail (allocating profits and losses to various segments of their business operations). I'm not sure to what level of detail they are required to disclose.


Yeah a public company has to report on there Finacials.You Have to report everything as a public company the SEC requires that.


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## Launchpad McQuack

KMANDERSON said:


> Yeah a public company has to report on there Finacials.You Have to report everything as a public company the SEC requires that.


Yes, I know that a public company has to report their financials, but do they have to report to the level of detail that would tell you whether EATS (and not just Uber as a whole) is profitable? There are some costs that would be difficult to differentiate between EATS and X since they share the same app.


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## UberAdrian

KMANDERSON said:


> Yeah a public company has to report on there Finacials.You Have to report everything as a public company the SEC requires that.


Hahahahaha the SEC!!! The SEC? One of the most pathetic paper tiger institutions of all time. Created by the elites to give the public the illusion of fairness but so chronically underfunded that they actually can't do anything. They can't even police Elon's tweets! Once in a while they slap companies on the wrist with small fines. The SEC is a joke.

Public companies do have to follow GAAP (an accounting standard) when reporting earnings though. I'm not super sure on this but I believe the rule is that segments within the business have to be reported independently only if the segment accounts for 10%+ of the company's revenues, profits or assets.


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## KMANDERSON

UberAdrian said:


> Hahahahaha the SEC!!! The SEC? One of the most pathetic paper tiger institutions of all time. Created by the elites to give the public the illusion of fairness but so chronically underfunded that they actually can't do anything. They can't even police Elon's tweets! Once in a while they slap companies on the wrist with small fines. The SEC is a joke.
> 
> Public companies do have to follow GAAP (an accounting standard) when reporting earnings though. I'm not super sure on this but I believe the rule is that segments within the business have to be reported independently only if the segment accounts for 10%+ of the company's revenues, profits or assets.


I can't defend the sec after they failed to figure out Bernie maddoff Ponzi enterprise after being told about him three different times.


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## UberTrent9

Yam Digger said:


> That is so true. Uber and Lyft might not be around in a couple of years; but the rideshare industry is here to stay. That genie will not be going back into the bottle anytime soon.


Lets hope a better company rises up soon and takes care of their drivers and knocks out both U/L


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## No Prisoners

Yam Digger said:


> That is so true. Uber and Lyft might not be around in a couple of years; but the rideshare industry is here to stay. That genie will not be going back into the bottle anytime soon.


You're correct genie's out of the bottle. Uber should capitalize 2 years worth of their burn rate. Lyft probably better shape than uber. But both won't be able to adjust to what's coming. Too late for them.


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