# CHECK IT! Cost per mile - real researched numbers



## Don't-Tell-Uber-I'm-Here (Jan 22, 2016)

SO much confusion out there
The crowd seems split...some think 50 cents/mile is hogwash...others swear by it.

*I'm going with 40 cents/mile.*

DEF have to use 30-50 cents..
Some VERY large organizations support this number...
Skip to the end for the Consumer Reports numbers..they seem best.

 The people who study it are clear - A quick rundown

Three numbers:
1 Use (gas, oil, repairs, maintenance, etc)
2 Use + Ownership i.e. Buying or replacing the car. (i.e. if you drive 200,000 miles, you must replace it. If you drive 50,000 miles, you used up 1/4 of that, it's a cost of driving for Uber)
3. Insurance
a. regular family insurance - I deducted these off the AAA numbers, since we pay this whether we drive or not. i.e if they say it costs $7k to drive a car, I put that down as $6k. So for AAA, to drive a sedan for a year, it's like $6k/15,000 = 40 cents/mile
b. extra livery insurance - I did not factor this in. Most drivers don't buy it, I think.

*AAA: *
*40-66 cents/mile* !
1 Use: 16-24 cents/ mile
2 Use + Ownership: ($6k-10k/15,000 = 40-66 cents/mile !
ww dt cbsnews dt com sl news sl how-much-does-it-cost-to-own-a-car-in-2014

*Kelly blue book:*
*At least 27.8 cents/mile. AT LEAST !!!*
If you hover over the colored circles, it's clear that use (gas, repairs, maintenance) total 35% of their $22,633 number.
ww dt kbb dt com sl new-cars sl total-cost-of-ownership sl ?r=113022943834841340
1 Use (new car!): $7,921 / 5 = $1,584
$1,584/15,000 = 10 cents per mile.
2. Use + Ownership*:* $13,365/(5x15000miles)=17.8 cents/mile.
Total: at least 27.8 cents/mile. AT LEAST
I consider this number a low-ball, unreliable number. I think they're leaving something out...
And remember...as car ages, depreciation goes down but repairs go up!! Consumer Reports has an article on this.

*The gov't and AAA:*
Per: ww dt investopedia dt com sl articles sl pf sl 08 sl cost-car-ownership
*1. Dep't of Labor 
46 cents/mile*
- $8,000 per year. Deduct 1000 for insurance we pay anyway....$7000 per year / 15000 = 46 cents/mile
* 2. AAA
36-50 cents per mile*
- 41,4 - 57.6 cents per mile. Deduct 12.5% for insurance we already pay (i.e. $1000/8000=12.5%). 
Yields 36-50 cents per mile

* The gov't - per 1040 tax forms*
*50 cents/mile*
We can deduct at like 56 cents per mile. 
Even if we deduct like 10-12.5 % for insurance that should be costed out...
Yields like 50 cents/mile

*Consumer Reports*
*Older car - 26.6 - 53.2 cents per mile !!, or even $1.07 (for a brand new high-end SUV)*
It all depends on your car.
So, according to their calculations, which seem the most detailed of any above,
you are paying like $4,000-8,000 per year for older car?
My data comes from:
1. If you look at the graph entitled, "Average carrying vs. operating costs",
At the far right (8 year old car), total of ave. carrying and operating seems to be about $6,000?
2. Honda Fit (see below) is probably like $4,000 per year after5 years, so if the low end is $4k for older-car annual driving, and the average is $6k, perhaps the top end is like $8k. I know, data plots can be all over the place, but as a rough estimate, this is not an unreasonable starting point.
*That's 26.6 - 53.2 cents per mile !! for an average older car
*
Looking at the left hand (most expensive/newest!) part of that graph,
the most expensive SUV will have first year carrying + operating costs of $13k + 3 k = like $16k
*A brand new high -end SUV is like $1.07 per mile*

As I said...there are so many factors, there is no one-size fits all answer
Look up your car, deduct 8-12% insurance from their numbers.
but we can get some quick estimates, such as this quick example
*Older Honda Fit - probably $4,000 per year ? i.e. 26.6 cents per mile*
(based on - it costs an average of $5300 per year if buy it new and own for 5 years, which includes very high 1styear depreciation cost. Then ensuing years are lower (and by the way averages work, must be lower than $5300), so an eyeball estimate, imo is perhaps $4,000 peryear for an older Fit ?)
All cars are $5,000-13,000 per year average cost of ownership first five years

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/12/what-that-car-really-costs-to-own/index.htm
*
SUMMARY STATEMENT:*
No matter how you cut it,
* 40 cents per mile is NOT an unreasonable number.*

What do you think ?


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## Don't-Tell-Uber-I'm-Here (Jan 22, 2016)

Update:

Here' the CR link:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/12/what-that-car-really-costs-to-own/index.htm

ALSO

You must look at each drive and each car individually.

*EX #1 Driving during a surge that lasts under ideal conditions*
Driving an 8year old Honda Fit,
pinged for Uber 2.1x, heading to an area where you will get another ping ? 
Nominally, pays $1.60 per mile, less 26.6 cents per mile...
--> Like $1.34 per mile. 
Deduct Buber fee...net at least what, 70 or 75 cents per mile ?
Drive a Saturday night, surge all night long- - even with breaks between trips, bathroom break etc etc, it's like $25-45 an hour, right?
I can def confirm a good night starts at $18/hour and can be more. My best was like $32 an hour. It's hard to eliminate deadhead miles and non-surge trips, but ime $18-20 is very very achievable, $20-25 is possible, $25-32 can happen but it's rare and difficult to achieve.
*Bottom line: Surges that last are good wages. *

*Ex #2 Weekday driving i.e. no surge*
Using an 'average car' at like 40cents/mile
City driving.....
awe who am I kidding. You can run the theoretical math if you want...I did a real-world test, drove enough hours to get decent data. Even with FEW deadhead miles, and driving from ping to ping, *I made $6/hour (net).* Really. (Note: Buber pays 80 cents a mile where I live).
*Bottom line: Skip the standard-rate pings. They're terrible. Get a part-time job instead. *

*Ex #3 Worst case scenario: driving a new, high-end SUV, UberX fare, non-surge, return trip is dead-head miles.*
Ooh, this sucks. Paid 80 cents/mile, Consumer reports says youdrive at $1.06 per mile.
To be fair...I'm ignoring $1 get in the car fee and per-minute payments...but also ignoring some expenses, downtime between pings, etc. 
Just the basics, then:
A 10 mile trip to the suburbs with dead-head back,
8 miles on the freeway, 2 miles city streets
In nominal, round terms, it's:
Fare: $8.00
Expenses: about $10 each way --> total $20
Time: if 60 mph on freeway and 25 mph in the suburbs (with traffic lights, etc), that's 8 minutes on freeway and 4-5 minutes city streets
total trip time: 25 minutes total drive time.
lost $12 during 25 minute drive time
*Net: You didn't get paid anything to drive....You Lost $29 per hour to drive. !
Bottom line: Only drive a new SUV for UberX for charity work.*


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## Don't-Tell-Uber-I'm-Here (Jan 22, 2016)

ANYWAY

SORRY TO GET OFF TRACK

Question # 1 is still - how much does it cost to drive Uber?

I say it's car-dependent
Look on Consumer Reports

But a reasonable starting point is 40 cents a mile.

You ?


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## IckyDoody (Sep 18, 2015)

Nice info.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Very good! Should be pinned.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

IF it's a real biz, which it ain't imho at this point, it IS what the IRS says it is.


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## backstreets-trans (Aug 16, 2015)

Nice to see real data. All uber supporters never calculate their real costs. When you figure in all the risk you realize uber is a no win endeavor.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

IRS is spot on. .50 to .60 for every rolling mile.
This forum slays me day after day for massive denial...
"Its an old Kia so only costs me .26..."

Some people were not cut out to be independent businessmen, and Uber preys upon them better than any other parasitic organization.


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## Thatendedbadly (Feb 8, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Some people were not cut out to be independent businessmen, and Uber preys upon them better than any other parasitic organization.


If by that you mean they lack the ability to do math in their head on the fly, you're absolutely correct. Uber definitely doesn't cater to these folks, but actually does a pretty good job for the pax.


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

It's the unexpected repairs that come up that can take a huge swipe out of all the money you "thought" you made. All of a sudden.


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## dpv (Oct 12, 2015)

Since the good rule of thumb is putting away about half of your earnings away for taxes and Uber fees, wouldn't the $0.40 a mile become $0.20 a mile or less?


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

BaitNSwitch said:


> It's the unexpected repairs that come up that can take a huge swipe out of all the money you "thought" you made. All of a sudden.


Why are they unexpected? 
Put 200-400 miles a day on a car, you surely should expect $3000 to $6000 per year expense in repairs after the first $100,000 miles.


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## ThaUBBA (Feb 13, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Why are they unexpected?
> Put 200-400 miles a day on a car, you surely should expect $3000 to $6000 per year expense in repairs after the first $100,000 miles.


3-6k a year? You're either replacing a motor, ****** and suspension / driving a bmw, benz or audi / or don't know how to do regular oil and fluid changes.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

ThaUBBA said:


> 3-6k a year? You're either replacing a motor, ****** and suspension / driving a bmw, benz or audi / or don't know how to do regular oil and fluid changes.


No.
You are beating the ever loving CRAP out of your transmission and engine at 200+ miles per day.
UberMath is amazing.
But, UberOn.


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

TwoFiddy, 6k a year is a big exaggeration. And I am very stingy with my math.

TaxiOn.


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## CIncinnatiDriver (Dec 17, 2015)

dpv said:


> Since the good rule of thumb is putting away about half of your earnings away for taxes and Uber fees, wouldn't the $0.40 a mile become $0.20 a mile or less?


?? What ???

I don't get it. 
Uber fees are already taken out. they get about a third, I think (more for minimum fare trips).

I thought taxes were $0??

So, if you NET $100 from uber in a day, how much are you setting aside?

I've been trying to set aside 50 cents/mile, to draw from for oil changes, gas, etc. 
taxes..nothing...!!

You ?


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

no, your taxable income is whatever you get after you deduct your driving expenses. Either by the IRS standard deduction or gas/repairs/maintenance method.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

BaitNSwitch said:


> TwoFiddy, 6k a year is a big exaggeration. And I am very stingy with my math.
> 
> TaxiOn.


You'll see.


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## ThaUBBA (Feb 13, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> No.
> You are beating the ever loving CRAP out of your transmission and engine at 200+ miles per day.
> UberMath is amazing.
> But, UberOn.


Please, tell me more about transmission hardships.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Im investing in 3000 Uber crying towels for when your transmissions finally shit the bed
Ill only charge you $5.


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## Gothedistance (Feb 7, 2016)

LOL! Always good to be prepared!!


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## 60000_TaxiFares (Dec 3, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You'll see.


If one starts 200+ miles /day (50000+ miles/yr) aka the normal taxi stuff, even at 10c/mi (car half/fully depreciated) you got $5000 right there. Between 100+ usual separate things breaking you can get nickel and dimed to death. (or just take it all in one big hit) 50000 miles is 3.5 years of driving in 12 months.

If you run a fleet of Crown Vics/ vans etc, pay your (mostly uncertified) mechanics/body people $13/hr and every wrecked car is worth far more in parts than it would be for example ,on craigs list unwrecked, your operating costs go way down.

In NYC, where a taxi-medallion is almost $1 million, The cost of the used vehicle, auto parts, repairs etc all come out in the wash, especially when the medallion **renewal** fee may be $15,000/yr.

Here's a cab joke:

New Driver: "I thought you said that this company had a staff of crack mechanics !!"
Old Driver" "No, I said all the mechanics on staff were on crack"

New Driver " I thought you said all the mechanics on staff were certified !!"
Old Driver " No, I said the mechanics on staff were all certifiable"

Stay safe
CC


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

Or instead of inboxing, please tell us here so everyone can benefit. I'd be interested to hear what you have to say.


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## HHTJ (Dec 13, 2015)

Stop buying expensive cars. Pick up a 2007 taurus for about $1200 keep it clean drive the crap out of it, then get another one if something major breaks. Not that hard. I know how to do my own repairs, brakes $35 for mid grade pads. $20 for oil change average. $3 car wash.


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## BaitNSwitch (May 12, 2015)

^^ This right here is golden advice.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Makes me love the cab company I lease from.
I end up driving 200-250 miles a shift for a total combined cost of $90 per shift for lease/gas.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

You also have to realize that, assuming paid miles is 50% of total miles, then the cost of paid miles is 2x the cost per mile.


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## CIncinnatiDriver (Dec 17, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> You also have to realize that, assuming paid miles is 50% of total miles, then the cost of paid miles is 2x the cost per mile.


EACH shift, and indeed, each ride, should be evaluated for its per-hour value.

Part-timers can go ping to ping on weekends..


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

CIncinnatiDriver said:


> EACH shift, and indeed, each ride, should be evaluated for its per-hour value.
> 
> Part-timers can go ping to ping on weekends..


Wrong,

You need to look at the per mile as well as per hour.

Not all markets are blessed to have a profit margin when there is no surge. You need to calculate your cost per mile and deduct the number of miles you drive from your earnings.

Unless you do that your hourly earnings are worthless data that may not represent anything at all. While mathmatically I could make good money per hour when there is no surge driving someone from Orlando to Miami, the $136-170 to the driver would be annihilated by the 484 mile total round trip.

If one were to use the IRs cost per mile of 54c

Looking at earnings that $170 is $24 an hour for 7 hours of work.
The above trip of Orlando to Miami would on paper and to the IRS result in a $91 LOSS for 7 hours of work, or an hourly wage of -$13 an hour.

This is a $37 an hour difference because cost per mile isn't calculated.
Cost per mile means everything.


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## MulletMan (Mar 2, 2016)

dpv said:


> Since the good rule of thumb is putting away about half of your earnings away for taxes and Uber fees, wouldn't the $0.40 a mile become $0.20 a mile or less?


If you can't drive for under .50 per mile I think you should GTFO. Which would be a gas hog, a clunker, a lemon. IRS gives you .54 per mile, it's a net loss. Don't put anything away, you gonna get a deduction on your schedule C. Anyone who reports earnings from Uber driving is a fool. Guarenteed loss brothers.


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## Realityshark (Sep 22, 2014)

What are you doing here? Uber only wants drivers who have limited 4th grade mathamatical apptitude. Uber does not need or want drivers like you.


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