# A list of demands California drivers should receive in exchange for not being classified as employees



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".

Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...

1) Absolute minimum pay rates of $3.00 base fare/ $1.50 per mile/ $0.35 per minute/ $8.00 minimum fare/ $12.00 minimum airport fare.

In addition to the above, drivers should never be paid less than 75% of what riders are being charged including booking fees, surges, "high demand period" fares, etc.

2) Be provided with rider's pickup address including estimated time and distance, destination address including estimated time and distance, and the estimated fare for the trip.

In addition, drivers should never be penalized in any way whatsoever for declining offers.

3) A fair and transparent dispatch system that sends offers to the driver who can get there in the shortest time. If that driver declines the offer, it should go the next closest (time wise) and so on.

Dispatching should never be used as a form of punishment or rewarding of drivers, which includes the abolition of "time outs" or other forms of dispatch "punishment".

4) A complete overhaul of the "discipline" system, including the abolition of "guilty until proven innocent" and rider extortion.

Drivers should be given a reasonable opportunity to defend themselves via phone, email, and/or at help centers, including the use of dashcam footage, and once they've been cleared, there should be no "record" kept of the incident that can be used against the driver at a later time.

5) Elimination or overhaul of the oppressive ratings system, including lowering the minimum rating to 4.00. Drivers in ratings "trouble" should be given a reasonable opportunity to bring their ratings up.

6) The use of dashcams should be fully endorsed by both companies, and they should notify the riders that the use of dashcams by the drivers is fully endorsed by the companies. At least some rider misbehavior including falsely accusing drivers will be eliminated by this dashcam policy.

7) Most of the above conditions should also apply to Uber Eats, Doordash, Grubhub, etc.


Readers are welcome to add more, but these are what I believe to be the most important conditions to be met.


----------



## CT1 (Aug 23, 2019)

LOL

and while we're at it,

8) A pony. The good kind.

9) Topical Fruit Bubblicious

10) Skittles

11) Two pounds of bacon, a large four-meat pizza, four fried chicken breasts, two drinks each of Mountain Dew, Pepsi, root beer, and sweet tea, two pints of ice cream, five chicken fried steaks, two hamburgers with bacon, fries, and a dozen garlic bread sticks with marinara on the side.

12) Filet mignon wrapped in bacon, de-veined shrimp sauteed in garlic butter with lemon, a baked potato with butter, sour cream, chives, and real bacon bits, corn on the cob, asparagus with hollandaise sauce, French bread with butter, goat cheese, cantaloupe, apple pie with vanilla bean ice cream, and an iced tea.

13) Lobster tail, steak, apple pie, vanilla ice cream, 7-Up

14) A 21-piece bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken, two large Domino's Pizzas (no anchovies), ice cream, a bag of jelly beans, a six-pack of Pepsi, and a pack of Camel cigarettes.

15) Steak, fried chicken, BBQ ribs, fries, onion rings, bacon, a dozen scrambled eggs with onions, fried taters with onions, sliced tomatoes, a salad with ranch dressing, two hamburgers with everything, peach pie, milk and coffee, ice tea with real sugar.

16) World peace

17) 75 virgins

18) No more testing human shampoo on animals

19) Partridge in a pear tree


----------



## Uber_Paul83 (Mar 4, 2019)

Can I add free unicorns for all?


----------



## CT1 (Aug 23, 2019)

Stop asking for unreasonable shit bro. Don't be greedy.

The good kind of pony ought to be enough.

Sheesh, some people.....


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Uber_Paul83 said:


> Can I add free unicorns for all?


What's wrong with you...

No wonder 99% of unicorns hide out in North Korea, Atlantis or Alibaba.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

AB5 has a better than 50/50 chance of passing, and if it does, uber, lyft, and the others will be desperately looking for a compromise.

If it doesn't pass, the drivers and supporters will still demand major change.

This is a golden opportunity for the drivers to finally end the exploitation, so this is an important topic that needs to be discussed.

If anyone has something constructive to add to this discussion then do so, otherwise take your trolling garbage elsewhere.


----------



## sheonlydrivesdays (May 25, 2019)

I want to add to your list. Making stops. It's completely unreasonable that riders expect us to wait while they shop. And when you say something no matter how you go about it - you've probably screwed your rating for that ride.

Every stop is either a flat fee like $5 (for five minutes and .75 per minute after that) or Uber simply charges by the minute – and it’s $1 per minute or $2 per minute. Or $2 just to make the stop and $1 per minute while waiting. As it stands now in my market - waiting for a passenger at pick-up is about $.30 per minute. But waiting when they have to stop to do something is about $.20 At .$20 per minute that is $12 an hour. That's minimum wage in Massachusetts.


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

those are 1990s cab rates btw
sounds good but i need $10 gross minimum fares

also will never happen they have to almost triple rates just to get to a legal minimum wages, theyre going to loot as much as possible even cut rates till the feds raid sorry thats just how these criminals operate look what lyft just did, they make $ on every ride & someone eventually accepts the ping, theyll try to get just rental drivers only because theyre the most desperate & bonded into accepting those ride because they need a quota for it

nothing will raise rates but govt regulations uber lyft feel about drivers the same way Hitler viewed jewish people their actions have shown this day by day


----------



## DanW (Aug 23, 2019)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> uber lyft feel about drivers the same way Hitler viewed jewish people their actions have shown this day by day


That was the most abrupt Godwin I've ever seen, there should be an award.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> those are 1990s cab rates btw
> sounds good but i need $10 gross minimum fares
> 
> also will never happen they have to almost triple rates just to get to a legal minimum wages, theyre going to loot as much as possible even cut rates till the feds raid sorry thats just how these criminals operate look what lyft just did, they make $ on every ride & someone eventually accepts the ping, theyll try to get just rental drivers only because theyre the most desperate & bonded into accepting those ride because they need a quota for it
> ...


In other posts I've advocated for drivers being paid a minimum of 75% of local taxi rates, and $1.50 per mile is lower than 75% in most markets, so I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it.

The reason I haven't advocated pay rates that are 100% of taxi rates is that uber would be forced to price their rides HIGHER than taxis, which would make the taxis happy but the regulators unhappy.

If our pay rates are 75% of taxi rates, rideshare companies have a 25% margin to play around with which is certainly reasonable.

I believe the best all around strategy is to keep rideshare fares at or slightly below taxi rates.



sheonlydrivesdays said:


> I want to add to your list. Making stops. It's completely unreasonable that riders expect us to wait while they shop. And when you say something no matter how you go about it - you've probably screwed your rating for that ride.


Minimum wage wouldn't be a factor because my list assumes drivers are not employees.

Two items on my list pretty much take care of your concerns.

Drivers would get at least 35 cents per minute waiting time, so someone who decides to spend 15 minutes shopping will put $5.25 into the driver's pocket. If someone wants to spend 30 minutes in a late night drive-thru, that will put $10.50 into the driver's pocket. Waiting time during stops could also be charged more than the standard 35 cents per minute driving rate.

The alternative is to tell the pax you can't do it. Three items on my list would protect the driver from being bullied by the pax... the much fairer discipline policy, the new dashcam policy, and the new ratings system that lowers the minimum rating to 4.00.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Nats,

That’s a good detailed list. But I just don’t how realistic it is to get all of that. I’d be happy with the 80/20, knowing the pickup/dropoff in advance and overhaul of the discipline system. If a rider makes false allegations, there will be monetary consequences that the driver receives.


----------



## LIsuberman (Nov 12, 2018)

_I would be happy with 75% - 25% split to my rideshare "partners" - of the riders pay and for both partys to be able to rate each other for up to 12 hours - then no ratings are able to be given. And A minimum of $5.00 to the driver on a fare - I think that's a reasonable request_


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

LIsuberman said:


> _I would be happy with 75% - 25% split to my rideshare "partners" - of the riders pay and for both partys to be able to rate each other for up to 12 hours - then no ratings are able to be given. And A minimum of $5.00 to the driver on a fare - I think that's a reasonable request_


75/25 by itself isn't enough to ensure decent pay rates.

From 2014-2016, drivers received 75% and driver pay rates crashed thru the floor because uber kept cutting prices.

The inherent weakness of our pay rates being fixed as a percentage of what pax pay is we're at the mercy of how much uber charges the pax.

If uber decides to cut fares or offer coupons and specials, the drivers will be WORSE off than they are now.

That's why I said we need to be pay no less than the rates I listed above as well as never being paid less than 75% of what pax are charged.

$5 minimum is too low.



Invisible said:


> That's a good detailed list. But I just don't how realistic it is to get all of that. I'd be happy with the 80/20, knowing the pickup/dropoff in advance and overhaul of the discipline system. If a rider makes false allegations, there will be monetary consequences that the driver receives.


Given the serious danger nationwide employee status is to uber's very existence, I think drivers have a lot of leverage.

If drivers are able to see destinations in advance and not be penalized for declining trip offers, pay rates will go way up regardless of whether or not uber agrees to raise rates.

Once drivers are armed with destination info, huge numbers of pax will be left stranded due to drivers refusing to do unprofitable rides.

Uber's very survival will force them to give large pay increases and/or offer large incentives to get drivers to accept those crappy rides.

Remember, uber and lyft save billions of dollars per year in driver payouts by hiding destinations.

It's all about the money.


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> 75/25 by itself isn't enough to ensure decent pay rates.
> 
> From 2014-2016, drivers received 75% and driver pay rates crashed thru the floor because uber kept cutting prices.
> 
> ...


The problem isn't Uber
The problem are those accepting rider requests

Khosrowshahi's responsibility is to the stockholders
Stockholders & Wall Street support more $ being taken out of the drivers end .
Drivers confirm daily they'll work for pennies


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

LIsuberman said:


> _I would be happy with 75% - 25% split to my rideshare "partners" - of the riders pay and for both partys to be able to rate each other for up to 12 hours - then no ratings are able to be given. And A minimum of $5.00 to the driver on a fare - I think that's a reasonable request_


$5 with costs means a buck maybe profit & its still 1970s wages thats what's wrong drivers accepting these rides are jist as bad as Uber Lyft

in no way is that reasonable accept to a child in 1980 no wonder uber lyft keep cutting rates, super scabs & math flunkies keep accepting them

$10 gross is barely minimum wage at 2 rides an hour after costs and no youre not getting 3-5 rides 24/7 each ride is going to average 15-20 minutes of your total time

grandfatherd in at 20% and have been 90+% xl only for almost 4 years idiot drivers are the problem now not uber Lyft


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Cold Fusion said:


> The problem isn't Uber
> The problem are those accepting rider requests


The problem is both.


----------



## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

LIsuberman said:


> _and for both partys to be able to rate each other for up to 12 hours - then no ratings are able to be given. And A minimum of $5.00 to the driver on a fare - I think that's a reasonable request_


Yes, that's a good stipulation. None of this they can change rating months later or $2-3 rides.


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

DanW said:


> That was the most abrupt Godwin I've ever seen, there should be an award.


is it wrong?
they murdered a homeless woman with no remorse

theyre responsible for dozens of suicides, hundreds if not thousands of robberies, murderes, rapes, tens of thousands of accidents due to negligence & crime brogrammed into the app

theyve paid billions in fines, lawsuits, settlements for breaking the law, banned frim numerous markets for blatant disregard of the law

pay childrens wages & human traffic millions of times per day with deception, manipulation, fraud, lies...

1 billion+ rides and labor went to 3 people's salaries & homes

sent millions of peoples most valuable assets(cars) to the gas chamber

its evil & greed in every concievable way

their goal is to remove all humans

sound familiar?

hence uber lyft VIEW drivers the same way Hitler viewed jewish people different tactics same goal

im sure travis k has some skin covered lamp shades in his 37 million condo, the other cofounder has the same in his 77 million dollar mansion & pretty sure dara k funnels some of his 50+ million dollar salary to evil hobbies we haven't heard about yet

they all belong in prison just not for war crimes but definitely human rights violations


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

LIsuberman said:


> both partys to be able to rate each other for up to 12 hours - then no ratings are able to be given


That would be a big improvement over the ratings system we have now.


----------



## DanW (Aug 23, 2019)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> is it wrong?


In any meaningful sense yes, everything in your list is hyperbole or true of capitalism as an institution.

U/L are just run of the mill disruption capitalists, and their goal is to break laws and undercut drivers as much as possible while holding marketshare until L5 self-driving comes to market, they don't "care", but you won't find a corp listed on NASDAQ that does.

This is not genocide, and the only war this looks like is class war, and Uber is not anywhere near the top of the heap in that war.

You think AB5 should pass? You think drivers should unionize? You think rides should be cleared through a driver run hiring hall? Then make the case for these things, but don't be absurd about it.


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

DanW said:


> In any meaningful sense yes, everything in your list is hyperbole or true of capitalism as an institution.
> 
> U/L are just run of the mill disruption capitalists, and their goal is to break laws and undercut drivers as much as possible while holding marketshare until L5 self-driving comes to market, they don't "care", but you won't find a corp listed on NASDAQ that does.
> 
> ...


nothing absurd about it
its as much human trafficking & slavery as its "sharing", were "partners", "independent contractors", "less pay means more money", its a "community", its a "technology company" not a cab company... points stars coupons badges rewards instead of legal tender, blanl contracts that defraud math flunkies & idiots....

you do know when a "company" lies its fraud & illegal right? all those quotes are documented lies uber lyft tell millions of times per day

are they not negligent in putting unsafe cars on the road because neither company verifies inspection forms look at them no place for autoshops phone number you think they snail mail or visit the shop, ever been to an airport lot & look at tires lol

how many pax drivers been raped robbed assaulted because no verifying rider accounts

how many minors using the service

how many drugs & prostitites being moved 3rd shift because of illegal predatory pricing making it a no brainer to use uber mules

i dont know what country you live in or what age you are but when someone coerces me into delivering 100-500 pounds 1-10 miles and pays me $4 gross I WAS a victim of human trafficking because its not a contract i would of agreed to if i knew the details in 1984 when i was in grade school & my mama gave me more to deliver trash to the dumpster a few hundred feet away

dont care about none of the nonsense going on that everyones complicit in just show me the details of my contract & pay me a legal regulated minimum fare, minimum per mile, minimum per minute like states have regulated for over half a century and stop trying to trick me into driving for free 9 out of 10 requests on x pool tiers like im stupid

i do my part by driving xl only & telling people the truth

they are not "disrupting" they are human trafficking 15+ million times per day, paying illegal wages, charging predatory pricing & laundering it thru real estate in broad daylight while lobbying (more than google apple Facebook combined) bribing and paying everyone who matters off with their stolen loot, shuffling money between friends & claiming losses on ridiculous items like scooters flying cars magic robots when the money goes straight to another

its an organized crime racket anyone whose ever driven longer than a day knows this everyone who denies is getting paid to do so or is the 4% who figure the ponzi out & dont want to rock the boat afraid to cut of their nose to spite their face cuz it works for them

only an idiot thinks self driving cars are anywhere near being an option or that they'll be cheaper than paying an idiot $1-2 net if that in a 5K hoopty theyll be bigger targets for other organized crime than scooters and bikes lol

just lure one jam it, strip it, oh a semi all by itself on a long stretch of road no gun needed just box it it itll slow down & stop for ya, cones, paintballs, help is hours away loot it & leave it

these silCON idiots haven't bern outside in decades & think they know the answers and can automate everything good luck with the last 100 feet & the homeless on every corner in every city theyll use em as public toilets, junkie motels...these people cant even afford scooters, pay car notes on phones, nike & clothing stores are starting subscriptions for shoes lol but robot chauffeur sure thats the tickets

& if they do come out why wouldn't anyone with $ buy their own? why use ubers or googles? you mean i can do coke of hoojer booty on the way to the concert, p i m p it out during the show, itll come back get me in NY & ill wake up in Chicago for 50-100K add on SOLD


----------



## CT1 (Aug 23, 2019)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> those are 1990s cab rates btw


People who want 1990 cab rates can have it if:

- they run Uber on a 1990 cell phone
- rock a 1990 hair cut
- drive a 1990 car
- call Marty McFly and .... FFS, nm, just die. It's not 1990. If you hate the rates so much and feel you are worth so much more, quit and do something else that pays better, or start your own RS biz and pay others that much


----------



## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

Why don't you advocate for communism as our form of government while you're at it?


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

CT1 said:


> People who want 1990 cab rates can have it if:
> 
> - they run Uber on a 1990 cell phone
> - rock a 1990 hair cut
> ...


i do xl only stank you very much, screen to where my 4000+ rides average $40+ an hour

96% dont have that option i speak for the seniors, immigrants, morons being exploited they have rights too

its not about just me me me ; )

ride"share" is FRAUD no one would use my app because illegal predatory app "burning" 12 million per day to market & bribe is in app store next to it

poor people not stupid just poor & i rarely eat fast food but if subway was selling $5 footlongs for $1 id eat there 4 times per day

self preservation is brogrammed into the app duh

anyone with a billion dollars could crush both "companies" in a month

a billion dollars could also buy every cab company in the country with ny included most likely lol

now whose investing a billion in my sandwich"sharing" app we can disrupt the trillion dollar food industry well mis label the employees pay em $3 am hour, make them bake the bread at home & supply the meat


----------



## CT1 (Aug 23, 2019)

So you feel you need $200/hr doing unskilled labor to call it fair?


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

CT1 said:


> So you feel you need $200/hr doing unskilled labor to call it fair?


nope $10 gross minimum fare is around minimum wage if you get 2 rides an hour

$1.50 a mile .30 a minute is around late 1990s cab rates

all i desire is a legal wage & details of my contract lol who said anything about 200 an hour? its currently $3 haha MIT proved it & the 96% of drivers who fail by design can proove it, if i tirn on x pool tier i can also verify it .60 a mile is from the 70s its on billions of receipts

cab fares have been regulated for quite some time by smart people for a reason oh wait its not a cab company their a "tech" company and youre "sharing" LMAO

call it unskilled all you want its top 10 most dangerous jobs list twice & operating costs while in a vehicle average around $10 an hour, i can verify that for a 3k 10+ year old vehicle with 230K miles a 2015 or newer its depreciation cant escape the actual costs

you want someone with your life in their hands that feels their own life is only worth 2 tacos net lmao

get what ya pay for

1 100 million dollar mansion only took 100 million minimum fares lmao


----------



## CT1 (Aug 23, 2019)

Where's my ****ing pony? Better be the good kind


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


$21.00 AN HOUR !

THEY HAD THEIR CHANCE !!!


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> $21.00 AN HOUR !
> 
> THEY HAD THEIR CHANCE !!!


Switching to an employee model will mean far fewer opportunities to drive. For many drivers, the lack of flexibility will put driving out of reach completely.


----------



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> AB5 has a better than 50/50 chance of passing, and if it does, uber, lyft, and the others will be desperately looking for a compromise.
> 
> If it doesn't pass, the drivers and supporters will still demand major change.
> 
> ...


WHAT supporters?


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Cold Fusion said:


> Switching to an employee model will mean far fewer opportunities to drive. For many drivers, the lack of flexibility will put driving out of reach completely.


O WELL

ANOTHER IMPROVEMENT !

AS BI PRODUCT !


----------



## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


I agree with each point. Though, with legislators now involved, that brings in many open doors for rideshare companies to influence the legislation.


----------



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Cold Fusion said:


> Switching to an employee model will mean far fewer opportunities to drive. For many drivers, the lack of flexibility will put driving out of reach completely.
> [/QUOT


When AB5 chickens come home to roost. It'll be partially due to drivers leaving it up to useless do-nothing politicians who do NOT see them as impacting their ability to stay in office.


----------



## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> I agree with each point. Though, with legislators now involved, that brings in many open doors for rideshare companies to influence the legislation.


...tooo late.
https://www.theregreview.org/2018/06/28/schriever-uber-lyft-lobby-deregulation-preemption/


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

UberBeemer said:


> I agree with each point. Though, with legislators now involved, that brings in many open doors for rideshare companies to influence the legislation.


 Que $90ML in campaign contributions
https://www.dailynews.com/2019/08/29/uber-lyft-threaten-60-million-california-ballot-measure/
People vote
Corporations decide who wins


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

Cold Fusion said:


> Switching to an employee model will mean far fewer opportunities to drive. For many drivers, the lack of flexibility will put driving out of reach completely.


cant pay employees a legal wage dont deserve to stay in business

sell a few billion in office space & mansions & pay labor or throw another 90 million in the trash trying to fight it theyve made their choices its regulation, jail, or bail out buy out for pennies when they cant loot and steal anymore,pretty obvious with what lyfts trying the direction they going the jig is up so .35 a mile LMAO see how much more we can steal times running out


----------



## DanW (Aug 23, 2019)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> nothing absurd about it
> its as much human trafficking & slavery
> ...
> when someone coerces me into delivering 100-500 pounds 1-10 miles and pays me $4 gross I WAS a victim of human trafficking


That's not what human trafficking is, you want to say that your labor rights were violated, or that proper protections were not put in place to protect children from predatory businesses, that's likely true, but you weaken your case by making false claims about the scale of the misdeeds.



ducktaleswoohoo said:


> only an idiot thinks self driving cars are anywhere near being an option or that they'll be cheaper than paying an idiot $1-2 net


Beyond U/L, who have unambiguously built their business on this opinion, Google, Apple and Tesla are all making significant investments on this being true, you can say they are all idiots, but nobody will really know when it will happen until it happens.

Musk very clearly believes he has the technology solved, and it will be ready in the next year or two, sure he is often optimistic with his timelines, but he also usually delivers product.



ducktaleswoohoo said:


> if they do come out why wouldn't anyone with $ buy their own?


If Tesla wins the level5 race, they will keep all their production for robotaxies and not offer them for sale, why sell something for $40K when you can just let it loose on the street and make that in pure profit every 12-16 mo with cashflow on day one?


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> cant pay employees a legal wage dont deserve to stay in business
> 
> sell a few billion in office space & mansions & pay labor or throw another 90 million in the trash trying to fight it theyve made their choices its regulation, jail, or bail out buy out for pennies when they cant loot and steal anymore,pretty obvious with what lyfts trying the direction they going the jig is up so .35 a mile LMAO see how much more we can steal times running out


"_cant pay employees a legal wage dont deserve to stay in business"_

We are Not employees
We are free to seek work elsewhere, if anyone else would have us
or
Add revenue with additional low skill low wage gig work


----------



## DanW (Aug 23, 2019)

Cold Fusion said:


> "_cant pay employees a legal wage dont deserve to stay in business"_
> 
> We are Not employees
> We are free to seek work elsewhere, if anyone else would have us


We are employees by any reasonable definition, that we have been denied the legal protections other employees have does not change the nature of the business relationship.

All employees have the option to seek employment elsewhere, employment is not serfdom.

The law is catching up, if AB5 passes, I expect a national domino effect and a massive restructuring for "gig" businesses.


----------



## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

Enjoy it while you can. It will all be over soon.


----------



## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

Some people may find it silly but when you negotiate, you don't start from a position of being reasonable especially when the other side is not. $21 per hour* (while on a trip) is not a reasonable offer (it is a shell game type of offer) so the counter-offer should not be either otherwise you are just a sucker. Meet somewhere in the middle and compromise.

However, I would prefer to see it pass, Uber and Lyft to either pull out or flounder so badly that an alternative(s) pops up and blows these jokes of "technology" companies out of the water. A team of well-funded programmers in California could write a better app in less than a month probably.


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

mrpjfresh said:


> Some people may find it silly but when you negotiate, you don't start from a position of being reasonable especially when the other side is not. $21 per hour* (while on a trip) is not a reasonable offer (it is a shell game type of offer) so the counter-offer should not be either otherwise you are just a sucker. Meet somewhere in the middle and compromise.
> 
> However, I would prefer to see it pass, Uber and Lyft to either pull out or flounder so badly that an alternative(s) pops up and blows these jokes of "technology" companies out of the water. A team of well-funded programmers in California could write a better app in less than a month probably.


A team may be able to write a better app
However, costs, P&L and low skill labor in _entry level ground transportation_ is consistent.

U can't squeeze blood or profits from a stone, but u can from 
drivers.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Cold Fusion said:


> The problem isn't Uber
> The problem are those accepting rider requests
> 
> Khosrowshahi's responsibility is to the stockholders
> ...


Awwwwwww look. @UberSolo/@Downtown Julie Brown/@Ignatz is back.

What number account is this for you? Have you hit triple-digits yet?


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

DanW said:


> That's not what human trafficking is, you want to say that your labor rights were violated, or that proper protections were not put in place to protect children from predatory businesses, that's likely true, but you weaken your case by making false claims about the scale of the misdeeds.
> 
> Beyond U/L, who have unambiguously built their business on this opinion, Google, Apple and Tesla are all making significant investments on this being true, you can say they are all idiots, but nobody will really know when it will happen until it happens.
> 
> ...


coerced unpaid labor DOES fit the definition of human trafficking i didnt define it

blank contracts is coercion trickery, deceipt, attempt to defraud they know all the details

saying we will fire you if you dont work fir free & cancel this contract is duress

coercion & duress = human trafficking

its not all whips chains and force

musk is a liar & fraud too guy hasn't made a penny profit since he sold paypal all others peoples money, needed a bailout to keep going & exploirs workers too, why anyone would want a 50+K paperweight with 7000+ laptop batteries as a 1 point of failure is beyond me but a fool & their money as they say, hadnt delivered anything LMAO give us $5000 in 2 years we might have a car available funny stuff try taking pre orders 90 days on paypal & get banned

and only a moron thinks 50+K magical non existing robot with ALL costs will be cheaper than paying grandpa simpson, apu, & auto $2 net 1970s wages in a 5K toyota with no costs hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha



Cold Fusion said:


> "_cant pay employees a legal wage dont deserve to stay in business"_
> 
> We are Not employees
> We are free to seek work elsewhere, if anyone else would have us
> ...


im treated like an employee i know im not an independent contractor

if i was id know the details of my contract without being bound by it thats badic contract law

almost all of them are in breach, illegal terms in contracts arent binding, couldn't agree to work for free even if i wanted lol

if i was i could cancel all i want if the contract requires free labor or for whatever reason i please without threat of deactivation, app punishing me by logging me out

if i was they couldn't fire drivers for ignoring pings oh wait a judge forced them to stop that

if i was I could set my own price

if i was i could take any reasonable route I choose without threats for inneficient route

if i was i would have due process on false claims not just be terminated by an autobot witu no evidence

i have the choice to screen the desperate, morons, exploitables dont have that choice they need the gig so they comply

anyhoo you either on payroll or dont want to risk your gig cuz you one of us 4%ers that succeed so i won't see you anymore, anyone whose driven more than a week knows they're treated like employess and falsely called ICs, its been fun


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Da Faque am I supposed to do with 70 virgins?

Can I just 10 bad girls instead?


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

DanW said:


> That was the most abrupt Godwin I've ever seen, there should be an award.


And after only 8 posts too. Quite impressive!


----------



## DanW (Aug 23, 2019)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> coerced unpaid labor DOES fit the definition of human trafficking i didnt define it


except you forgot the trafficking part, if you were not moved in bondage, or transferred by force it's garden variety exploitation. The criteria for coercion you are using is also pretty sloppy, and would not meet the definition. There is no problem with saying these business practices are bad/immoral/illegal, but pretending it's a war crime makes you sound crazy.


ducktaleswoohoo said:


> musk is a liar & fraud too guy hasn't made a penny profit since he sold paypal


Retro-propulsive rocket landings now happen on the regular, and there are about half a million Teslas on the road, you don't have to like these products, but it's nonsensical to assert that they are not real.


----------



## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

I have a slightly different approach to this. Have the city or state or whoever set minimum charges to the pax, say $1.50 per mile and $0.40 per minute and set the maximum commission, say 20%, Uber, Lyft or whoever can take. Thus in a 5 mile 30 minute trip the pax would pay $19.50. After the ride share cut the driver would be paid $15.60 plus a cut of the booking fee.

To add. If you are looking for benefits such as health, etc., Uber, Lyft are not going to give it to you along with a $21 min hour rate unless you give them something in return. Think max cancellation rate, minimum shifts, minimum acceptance rates, limitations on DF etc.


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

DanW said:


> except you forgot the trafficking part, if you were not moved in bondage, or transferred by force it's garden variety exploitation. The criteria for coercion you are using is also pretty sloppy, and would not meet the definition. There is no problem with saying these business practices are bad/immoral/illegal, but pretending it's a war crime makes you sound crazy.
> 
> Retro-propulsive rocket landings now happen on the regular, and there are about half a million Teslas on the road, you don't have to like these products, but it's nonsensical to assert that they are not real.


i didnt define the words if you dont want to look up the definition not my problem force is not required for trafficking lmao nor is war or bondage and no one said teslas aremt real, paraphrasing is fun though i suppose & i don't see you anymore because when i get $4-10 gross im a human trafficking victim period as i would never agree to such a contract not in 2019 or in 1985 in grade school if the details were provided to me per my rights, they sent a blank contract that defrauded me into working for free, end of story.

Labor traffickers - including recruiters, contractors, employers, and others - use violence, threats, lies, debt bondage, or other forms of coercion to force people to work against their will in many different industries.

20+ million in fines for fraudulent recruitment ads & marketing has already been found guilty of

Labor traffickers often make false promises of a high-paying job or exciting education or travel opportunities to lure people into horrendous working conditions. Yet, victims find that the reality of their jobs proves to be far different than promised and must frequently work long hours for little to no pay. Their employers exert such physical or psychological control -

make 90k, make 50k, make 40k, 30-40$ an hour, $25 an hour, ef it its a great side hustle, my bad now were just opening doors lol found guilty and had to change those claims each time they made em, upon investigation less than 5% of drivers made what uber claimed in ads well i think thats what the ny court said & ny rates were highest in country....

oh wait "free school" just give 3000 rides dont worry 96% never reach that amount of rides

Labor trafficking in the United States is a form of human trafficking where victims are made to perform a task through force, fraud or coercion as it occurs in the United States.

coercion may entail economic sanctions, psychological pressures,
fear, fraud, deceit, violence, duress, menace, or threats, violence, constraints, or other action brought to bear on someone to do something against their will or better judgment.

they threaten me everyday with deactivation, fire others, they definitely try to defraud me on x & pool tiers 9 out of 10 trips or every trip not 10+ miles doesn't cover costs of you can do 3rd grade math you can verify at .60 a mile, im belessed where I have a choice to lay in bed & screen & cover my bases when I do, grandpa on a fixed income who is generally discriminated against in finding work is not thats 23% of current driver pool, immigrants who are also discriminated against when looking for work will for $3 an hour because its $3 a day back home thats over 40% of the driver pool, 35% cant even afford a car and need to do 80 rides a week to avoid paying $1000+ a month for a $250 a month rental for lyft sounds like debt bondage to me sucks to have bad credit luckily lyfts there to exploit them into 40 hours a week labor just for a rental car, then theres the other desperate who will work for $3 an hour because it beats nothing

all of this is brogrammed into the app by design or do you know other cab companies that hire psyxhologists, game develepors & pay them 6-7+ figures lol wonder why they need them around


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> and only a moron thinks 50+K magical non existing robot with ALL costs will be cheaper than paying grandpa simpson, apu, & auto $2 net 1970s wages in a 5K toyota with no costs hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha


You'd be surprised at how many financial talking heads are saying that SDCs will be much cheaper than human drivers. Some are saying fares could be $1 per mile or less with SDCs.

The only way that could possibly be true would be if uber can somehow offload the SDC costs to others the way they do now with human drivers.


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> You'd be surprised at how many financial talking heads are saying that SDCs will be much cheaper than human drivers. Some are saying fares could be $1 per mile or less with SDCs.
> 
> The only way that could possibly be true would be if uber can somehow offload the SDC costs to others the way they do now with human drivers.


most have never driven commercially, never talked to a driver, expense most of rides as business expenses, dont even know what dead miles are, lease new model vehicles with warranties that are trades in before any real maintenance is needed.

anyone whose actually driven knows its a fairytale for least a decade & even then with all the sensors & simple maintenance theyll be ridiculous to repair a valve stem costs $50 thats a day of profits ar current rates, a bird crapping or a bug can blot out a sensor & turn it into a paperweight till a human at least minimum wage has to come out to fix

the vandalism will be ridiculous, a human can duck tape a side view mirror for months then amazon a replacement for 37$ the dealer wanted 200 lol and these will be the fancy camera ones so thats 500 + and out of service till fixed

1 camera or lidar thats 1000

i literally spend maybe $20 per YEAR washing & vacuuming they'll need to do that DAILY

i park for free they not parking anywhere near my property or neighborhood free thats for sure,i know im not alone but theyll be no surveilling every inch of my neighborhood if i see one its game on dont care how old i get

folks dropping nails in front of them doh

condom vomit human can kinda get rid of, corporate thata biohazard professional cleaning needed there's another month of issues

i total my 3k hoopty oh well buy another, a minor dent on magical robot doh

hackers, paintball guns, stickers can fool em, cones,lines painted in street, just flat out hate with bricks, bats, jammers, molotovs....

organized crime salivating lol have the night rider trucks lined in a faraday cage waiting order it to remote location, or jam it box it in roll it into truck strip for parts

same on long lonely stretches of highway for the semis with cargo, no gun charges needed its stop for you haha

they pretty much clueless or have an agenda getting payola or inside shares so hype it up

they'll have facial recognition for warrant scans & ad placement popo going to have to make up ticket revenue from somewhere who wants every convo recorded, thats a lot of bandwidth & storage space to pay for another expense humans wont have theyll be uploading petabytes per day haha

imagine bar close or events how many fights thats my robot no that's my robot oh yeah & people just stand in front of it till theirs arrive, 15-20 minites at busy crosswalks, drunks can barely open the door or find human drivers good luck with that if the pin 100 feet off, pass out inside never get out meters been running or ambo called haha, one arrives has vomit dripping from door handle, theyll have to obey the law pax will love having to walk around block to the desginated spot...

def cant discriminate when a call from the projects or trailer park requests that should be fun

ada need some for the disabled...

anyone im the real world knows its ridiculous

half the population pay check to pay check & cant come up with $400 cash, this next generation so poor they cant afford scooters & pay car notes on phones a car is out the budget but robot chauffeur sure lol nike & clothing stores coming out with shoe & clothes subscriptions because they so broke they need 10 different gig apps to equal 1 minimum wage job

recession or stock market crash what gets cut out the budget first $9.99 for a month of netflix or 1 ride?

Ponzi Ponzi Ponzi
if they say return on investment 2035 idiots will stop throwing em money so its 3-5 years lol i travel thru 4 cities traffic lights at 3am-6am still not on timers or flashing cant tell theres no cars but itll be the Jetsons in 2021 yeah thats the ticket

bizzaro world


----------



## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

The gov't forcing a company to operate in the way it wants... can you say socialism? The only thing that keeps the liberals in power is the bay area spending millions to buy politicians.

If you don't the job, get a different one. Uber should, IF these stupid regulations are enacted, should make driver requirements so high that 90% of the ants can't qualify.

Things like no car less than 3 years old or more than 50k miles.
Every car must pass a $1000 inspection by 'independent' mechanics to ensure safety and security. every 6 months.
No ping can be refused. 
Drivers must bathe.. DAILY

Come on Uber.. make those socialists in CA regret their decisions.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Well...

How about min wage after all deductions (including deductible miles) including anytime between pings. (Under the following conditions) 

1. Half rate if we are waiting at home.
2. The ability to kick us offline if business is slow (for no less than 1 hour (prevents Uber from doing it for just 5 minutes then sending you a log back in text and immediately sending you a ping thus invalidating the entire point of paid to wait.
3. Declining any ping for any reason disqualifies you for wait pay.
4. Uber can direct you to a busier area (as long as they pay for the empty miles)
5. Uber can require you to not drive for any other gig service to be eligible for wait pay. (Or at all)






By my math...

Would be $22 an hour give or take for Florida and close to $30 an hour for California/Washington state.

(And the time between pings would be paid hourly rates)


----------



## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

We should Strike again...who is with me?


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Nats, I am completely in agreement with what you're saying. A couple other things that would help drivers and be somewhat reasonable, in my book, are the following:

* ID verification for all new accounts, not only to assist police in case of illegal activity but also as a first step to prevent minors from creating accounts. I don't think pictures are necessary for drivers as they lead to discrimination, as well as so many pax order rides for others anyway.

* Reduce wait time for pax from 5 minutes to 2 minutes, just like they have with Pool/Shared.

* Caps on vehicles. They can easily figure out how many rides were given per driver and how many rides were ordered during the previous month/quarter/year, and be capped at a number that is, say, 50% higher than needed to accomodate last period's demand. So, if they grow rapidly, they can onboard just as fast. If growth halts, they don't get any more drivers added to the system. As business inevitably shrinks, driver attrition will take care of the problem of too many drivers.


----------



## sheonlydrivesdays (May 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


Oh, I thought of one more thing. It should be mandatory, if you are an employee at Uber, (any of the Uber office locations including Corp headquarters and including the CEO) that you must complete 1,000 rides as a driver. No one's grandfathered - if you've been there 5 years - you still have to do it. New employees? Great you're the new director of blah, you start after you complete 1,000 rides.

The reason I say 1,000 is that the first 500 are kinda fun and adventurous. It's the next 500 you really learn from in my opinion.

I honestly think this would help the company tremendously.


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


This is like beating a dead pony. Higher rates would mean more drivers and fewer passengers paying rates that are already high for what it is used for, resulting in a lose-lose-lose for driver-pax-Uber. Lower rates mean fewer but happier ants, happier pax, and a happier Uber because of high volume, resulting in a win*-win-win. Drivers cannot win at a game where almost everyone is a potential driver. 
* driver knows no math so he is a loser that feels like a winner


----------



## Jumpin Jim (Mar 4, 2018)

CT1 said:


> LOL
> 
> and while we're at it,
> 
> 19) Partridge in a pear tree


I want that damn partridge out of the pear tree before Christmas by whatever means necessary. Freakin partridge is obsessed with pears, I don't get it.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

IR12 said:


> When AB5 chickens come home to roost. It'll be partially due to drivers leaving it up to useless do-nothing politicians who do NOT see them as impacting their ability to stay in office.


UNION


----------



## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Jumpin Jim said:


> I want that damn partridge out of the pear tree before Christmas by whatever means necessary.


I'm too exhausted after reading three pages of this thread to add anything other than a grunt of a laugh at your very funny joke.

In between rides I'm now currently tallying up all the "we-want-to-rule-the-world" companies out there (Jeff, Travis, Bill, Elon, The Charlie and Dave show, the Google Collective, et al), which are growing at an alarming rate, and contemplating which head of these company's will be discovered to be the Anti-Christ.

Agression and greed are what feed the You-or-Me mentality. Go to sleep everyone and stay that way until human consciousness evolves beyond those two basic instincts and we all wake up to realize that the pie is, after all, large enough for all.


----------



## kevin92009 (Sep 11, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


perfectly reasonable requests


----------



## Rog’O Datto (Jul 30, 2019)

CT1 said:


> LOL
> 
> and while we're at it,
> 
> ...


20) Access to and/or judgment that leads to... better avatars ?


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> You'd be surprised at how many financial talking heads are saying that SDCs will be much cheaper than human drivers. Some are saying fares could be $1 per mile or less with SDCs.
> 
> The only way that could possibly be true would be if uber can somehow offload the SDC costs to others the way they do now with human drivers.


_Financial talking heads _tend to be more Objective
than
Emotional Menial Labor seeing a future without need of the No Skilled

You're sons & daughters may not have a guaranteed $3.75 net an hr. job @ uber


----------



## CT1 (Aug 23, 2019)

Rog'O Datto said:


> 20) Access to and/or judgment that leads to... better avatars ?


^^^ Dislike ???


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

tohunt4me said:


> UNION










*Take America away from the Rich and Powerful and Give it Back to the Ordinary Man !!!*


----------



## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

You "demand" nothing in a free market.

Free markets work every time they're tried. Failuures are directly proportionall to the interference.


----------



## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


These rates are to low. They need to be closer to whatever the taxi negotiated rates are in each area. Also, U&L should only get a small connect fee for connecting the rider to the driver. Something like $1.50 for very short rides and $3.00 if the ride is more than 3 miles. Below is what a SF taxi charges for their riders.

*San Francisco Taxicab Rates of Fare*

Section 1135 San Francisco Municipal Police Code


First 1/5 mile$3.50Each additional 1/5th mile$0.55Each minute of waiting, or traffic time delay$0.55Airport Exit Fee$4.00

*Fare Calculator in San Francisco, CA*


 Distance
milesEstimated
Price * Distance
milesEstimated
Price * Distance
milesEstimated
Price * Distance
milesEstimated
Price * Distance
milesEstimated
Price *312.50 $1342.50 $2372.50 $33102.50 $43132.50 $415.50 $1445.50 $2475.50 $34105.50 $44135.50 $518.50 $1548.50 $2578.50 $35108.50 $45138.50 $621.50 $1651.50 $2681.50 $36111.50 $46141.50 $724.50 $1754.50 $2784.50 $37114.50 $47144.50 $827.50 $1857.50 $2887.50 $38117.50 $48147.50 $930.50 $1960.50 $2990.50 $39120.50 $49150.50 $1033.50 $2063.50 $3093.50 $40123.50 $50153.50 $1136.50 $2166.50 $3196.50 $41126.50 $51156.50 $1239.50 $2269.50 $3299.50 $42129.50 $52159.50 $


----------



## lyft_rat (Jul 1, 2019)

Karen Stein said:


> You "demand" nothing in a free market.
> 
> Free markets work every time they're tried. Failuures are directly proportionall to the interference.


Exactement!


----------



## Rog’O Datto (Jul 30, 2019)

DanW said:


> That's not what human trafficking is, you want to say that your labor rights were violated, or that proper protections were not put in place to protect children from predatory businesses, that's likely true, but you weaken your case by making false claims about the scale of the misdeeds.
> 
> Beyond U/L, who have unambiguously built their business on this opinion, Google, Apple and Tesla are all making significant investments on this being true, you can say they are all idiots, but nobody will really know when it will happen until it happens.
> 
> ...


Every time I see Musk, my wind wanders toward John DeLorean and Malcolm Bricklin.



New2This said:


> Awwwwwww look. @UberSolo/@Downtown Julie Brown/@Ignatz is back.
> 
> What number account is this for you? Have you hit triple-digits yet?


You forgot @RabbleRouser


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Rog'O Datto said:


> You forgot @RabbleRouser


Among many others


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> You "demand" nothing in a free market.
> 
> Free markets work every time they're tried. Failuures are directly proportionall to the interference.


First of all, the U/L business model is not an example of free market capitalism, rather it's an example of rent-seeking (crony capitalism)

NEITHER company has ever supported free market capitalism...
https://fee.org/articles/uber-and-lyft-are-begging-government-for-a-monopoly-on-self-driving-cars/
Secondly, "demands" are part of the negotiating process, which is part of capitalism.

If AB5 passes, the drivers will be in a strong bargaining position which they should exploit to the fullest.

The shills are getting increasingly hysterical.



REX HAVOC said:


> These rates are to low. They need to be closer to whatever the taxi negotiated rates are in each area. Also, U&L should only get a small connect fee for connecting the rider to the driver. Something like $1.50 for very short rides and $3.00 if the ride is more than 3 miles. Below is what a SF taxi charges for their riders.
> 
> *San Francisco Taxicab Rates of Fare*
> 
> ...


If you check the search engines, you'll see that on several occasions, I've advocated drivers be paid a minimum of 75% of local taxi rates.

The reason I listed $1.50 per mile and .35 per minute was that I thought they were more realistic rates.

However, upon reflection, I believe the drivers should demand 75% of taxi rates as well as a guarantee that drivers will never receive less than 75% of the total cost of any ride.

As much as I'd like to see the $1.50 and $3.00 connect fees be all that the rideshare companies receive, it's not gonna happen.

If the drivers can get 75% of taxi rates as their base rates and a guarantee that drivers will never be paid less than 75% of the gross for any trip, it will be a huge victory.

I'll also add that if drivers are shown the destinations in advance as well as a guarantee that drivers will never be penalized in any way whatsoever for declining offers, pay rates will skyrocket anyway.

I shake my head when I read posts of drivers saying they want to be paid at least a dollar per mile. Those drivers have been so beaten down by 50 cent per mile pay rates that a crappy $1 per mile pay rate seems huge by comparison.


----------



## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Don't forget live (real time) access to support.


----------



## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Kevin Kargel said:


> Don't forget live (real time) access to support.


Fluency in English should be a must.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

mikes424 said:


> Fluency in English should be a must.


Trying to put Rohit out of a job huh?


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Rog'O Datto said:


> 20) Access to and/or judgment that leads to... better avatars ?


???

How about authenticity?

Bot i miss those days.

I mean boy.


----------



## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

I think burden of proof from the passenger for any accusations would be a nice thing to require from both rideshare companies too. 

We don't need to prove our innocence.


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

sheonlydrivesdays said:


> I want to add to your list. Making stops. It's completely unreasonable that riders expect us to wait while they shop. And when you say something no matter how you go about it - you've probably screwed your rating for that ride.
> 
> Every stop is either a flat fee like $5 (for five minutes and .75 per minute after that) or Uber simply charges by the minute - and it's $1 per minute or $2 per minute. Or $2 just to make the stop and $1 per minute while waiting. As it stands now in my market - waiting for a passenger at pick-up is about $.30 per minute. But waiting when they have to stop to do something is about $.20 At .$20 per minute that is $12 an hour. That's minimum wage in Massachusetts.


Drive time in Tampa Bay is .0884 per minute. While I'm waiting that is $5.30 per hour. These stops are one of my biggest complaints.


----------



## CT1 (Aug 23, 2019)

Why are FL rates so low? Is cost of living very low?


----------



## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> I'm too exhausted after reading three pages of this thread to add anything other than a grunt of a laugh at your very funny joke.


Actually, the funniest posts are the ones demanding ABSOLUTE MINIMUM PAY should be $X.XX per mile, $X.XX per minute, blah blah blah, or the ones that say NO, THAT IS TOO LOW, or I NEED AT LEAST $XX.XX per hour.....all coming from CURRENT DRIVERS driving for $.60/mile and $.12/min, more or less.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

CT1 said:


> Why are FL rates so low? Is cost of living very low?


The cost of living in Los Angeles is sky high, yet the minimum fare for drivers is a pathetic $2.62, so uber obviously doesn't give a shit how high the cost of living is for the drivers.


----------



## DoubleDee (Apr 22, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> AB5 has a better than 50/50 chance of passing, and if it does, uber, lyft, and the others will be desperately looking for a compromise.
> 
> If it doesn't pass, the drivers and supporters will still demand major change.
> 
> ...


I agree with every single condition that you mentioned in your post. Nothing you mentioned are unreasonable at all. But as you can see the ants are mocking you and they think that your ideas are unreasonable.

It's like a bizarre case of Uber Stockholm syndrome. Being exploited and abused and thanking Uber and Lyft for sticking it up their [email protected]@es on a daily basis.


----------



## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> 6) The use of dashcams should be fully endorsed by both companies, and they should notify the riders that the use of dashcams by the drivers is fully endorsed by the companies. At least some rider misbehavior including falsely accusing drivers will be eliminated by this dashcam policy.


 Riders should be required to call P.D. report "dui" driver immediately and make out a police report. False reports will bare a service charge or officially be given a fine by PD.


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> Ponzi Ponzi Ponzi
> if they say return on investment 2035 idiots will stop throwing em money so its 3-5 years lol i travel thru 4 cities traffic lights at 3am-6am still not on timers or flashing cant tell theres no cars but itll be the Jetsons in 2021 yeah thats the ticket
> 
> bizzaro world


Man ! That is a Falling Down rant. The movie. It's ok. But those that are laughing, are showing there rejection of todays reality. Sadly, what you posted is the truth. So much for DuckTales. But I get it.



Coastal_Cruiser said:


> I'm too exhausted after reading three pages of this thread to add anything other than a grunt of a laugh at your very funny joke.
> 
> In between rides I'm now currently tallying up all the "we-want-to-rule-the-world" companies out there (Jeff, Travis, Bill, Elon, The Charlie and Dave show, the* Google Collective*, et al), which are growing at an alarming rate, and contemplating which head of these company's will be discovered to be the Anti-Christ.


*The Google / Face Book = Borg Collective. *Anti-Christ* ? *Um, I think Collective is a better term. See Mr. Roddenbary ? Was a see-er.
Now it's Disney and Star wars.

See the truth has a way of coming out from Hollywood movies 20, 30 years a head of it's time. But it takes another 20-30 years of ones life time to see the reality before them.


----------



## luvgurl22 (Jul 5, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


I like how you "dream". I would also add that tips should be required on fares with more than 2 passengers & long distance, just as with "large party" tips for other service gigs.As for Uber & Lyft whining that pax can't afford an increase in the fares, they should walk if they can't even afford the cheapest method of transportation.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

I think the ideas are great! We lack so many basics that some demands are just plain simple. But U/L would not give a damn and if they wanted they would have done something sooner. However I am a driver in California and have only the demand to an immediate 30$ hour pay across the state, and a UNION. I would take UNION as my demand if I had a genie. Union is exactly what I deserve and it is exactly what they want to deprive me. With a Union I would fight for living wages for all gig workers not just begging for minimum wage.


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

SatMan said:


> Riders should be required to call P.D. report "dui" driver immediately and make out a police report. False reports will bare a service charge or officially be given a fine by PD.


That should be the case in every instance of a criminal allegation against a driver. You'd call 911 if you were driving your own vehicle and saw a drunk driver beside you on the road. If you're a passenger in a vehicle driven by a drunk driver, you have even more of a vested interest in making sure authorities are alerted.

Uber ducks basic common sense on so many things, but this issue is perhaps the most glaring example. Criminal activity should always be reported to the authorities, not some Uber call center.


----------



## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

If uber want to put the blame on drivers, then implement an additional 20% tip onto the fare. UBER GET NONE OF THIS!!!


----------



## FreeRyder (Jul 24, 2019)

Karen Stein said:


> You "demand" nothing in a free market.
> 
> Free markets work every time they're tried. Failuures are directly proportionall to the interference.


Nonsense!
Demand IS an integral part. Interference IS another word for regulation which all free markets need to have.


----------



## Blatherskite (Nov 30, 2016)

Coastal_Cruiser said:


> I'm too exhausted after reading three pages of this thread to add anything other than a grunt of a laugh at your very funny joke.
> 
> In between rides I'm now currently tallying up all the "we-want-to-rule-the-world" companies out there (Jeff, Travis, Bill, Elon, The Charlie and Dave show, the Google Collective, et al), which are growing at an alarming rate, and contemplating which head of these company's will be discovered to be the Anti-Christ.
> 
> Agression and greed are what feed the You-or-Me mentality. Go to sleep everyone and stay that way until human consciousness evolves beyond those two basic instincts and we all wake up to realize that the pie is, after all, large enough for all.


My demands could easily be satisfied if I could humbly acquire a nail from Travis's true cross. I would hang it from a chain on my rear-view mirror as a conversation starter for pax. It would lead to a discussion reflecting back on that fateful day in 2019 when mobs of angry, disaffected drivers crucified him on Nob Hill alongside the two theives, Garret and Dara. As we drove toward the horizon of a new era in equitable gig-work, we would marvel at how this holy relic had once pierced the living flesh of the rideshare creator, and we would laugh and laugh.


----------



## Dome (Feb 10, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> AB5 has a better than 50/50 chance of passing, and if it does, uber, lyft, and the others will be desperately looking for a compromise.
> 
> If it doesn't pass, the drivers and supporters will still demand major change.
> 
> ...


It's a shame to see drivers make a mockery of other drivers that make an attempt to help their industry. Even as competitors Uber and Lyft band together for their mutual purposes. Wake the heck up.. Whoever controls the drivers, controls the market. I'm in favor of the AB5 bill not because I want to be an employee, but because we'll never truly be independent contractors unless Drivers take control of themselves by controlling the service they provide.


----------



## Flier5425 (Jun 2, 2016)

I think there is something missing in this discussion. We, DRIVERS, do not want to be classified as employees. What AB5 will do is define what an employee is. Uber/Lyft/other gig companies will then have to make changes in their model to make sure this definition of an employee doesn't interfere with their Driver partners. For TOO long Uber/Lyft have been able to define what an IC was, as far as they were concerned. This now defines more accurately what an Employee is. If these gig companies want to they can change the model so there is no interference with what an employee is and their driver partners.


----------



## Dome (Feb 10, 2019)

Cold Fusion said:


> The problem isn't Uber
> The problem are those accepting rider requests
> 
> Khosrowshahi's responsibility is to the stockholders
> ...


I would say the problem is a mix of both. More so on the drivers cause eventho they don't control the pricing of rides, they control accepting them, and staying online all day long, which is why these companies aren't too pressed to increase rates for drivers.



Flier5425 said:


> I think there is something missing in this discussion. We, DRIVERS, do not want to be classified as employees. What AB5 will do is define what an employee is. Uber/Lyft/other gig companies will then have to make changes in their model to make sure this definition of an employee doesn't interfere with their Driver partners. For TOO long Uber/Lyft have been able to define what an IC was, as far as they were concerned. This now defines more accurately what an Employee is. If these gig companies want to they can change the model so there is no interference with what an employee is and their driver partners.


You make a valid point, however, I don't see how these companies would be able to change their model to fit within the 3 criterias used to determine a non employee status. They've claimed for years they're not a transportation company but a technology company (bs), but AB5 apparently pierces that lie. I doubt they would ever let drivers set their own rates (or even negotiate their rates with a passenger).

That's why they're pooling money together to fight this bill (ridiculous).


----------



## Jon77 (Dec 6, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


 I would add that the two minute or five minute in some areas, cancellation grace proof should be eliminated.
If the company wants to eat the fee that's OK but the driver should not be penalized because you can make a lot of forward progress in two minutes not to mention having to fight with traffic and reversing your direction if you're going the wrong way when you get the ping.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Blatherskite said:


> It would lead to a discussion reflecting back on that fateful day in 2019 when mobs of angry, disaffected drivers crucified him on Nob Hill alongside the two theives, Garret and Dara.


I'll bring pink nails and wood for those two assclowns Zimmer and Logan at Lyft. Those rooster inhalers are as sleazy as Dara etc. if not sleazier, and that takes some effort.


----------



## Tom Oldman (Feb 2, 2019)

CT1 said:


> LOL
> 
> and while we're at it,
> 
> ...


We can give you only 72-virgins, sorry.


----------



## SushiGirl (Aug 28, 2016)

Totaly disagree with Item #5. There is a reason why someone has a low rating. Thinking that they will behave and do what it takes to bring that up to an acceptable rate is fairy tale thinking. Its not fair to the rest of us who give our best service. Yes, of course there are jackass riders out there and eventually they are banned but drivers are making the rest of us look like a bunch of thug ****** bags!


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

SushiGirl said:


> Totaly disagree with Item #5. There is a reason why someone has a low rating. Thinking that they will behave and do what it takes to bring that up to an acceptable rate is fairy tale thinking. Its not fair to the rest of us who give our best service. Yes, of course there are jackass riders out there and eventually they are banned but drivers are making the rest of us look like a bunch of thug @@@@@@ bags!


When people threaten 1* for the following:

*they're drunk and puke. You put in for a legit puke fee. They do a retaliatory 1*

*you do Pool. You pick up a rider. They tell you not to pick up any more riders or they'll give you a 1*

*it's Surging. They want drive-thru. You decline because sitting in a drive-thru means missing out on potential Surge rides. They 1* for not kowtowing to them.

*It's Surging. Uber ****s them with a high fare for their trip. They 1* you because they you're the easy conduit of their frustration.

*They have 5 people. You only let 4 ride. They 1* you for following the rules/law.

*You don't offer water/gum/mints. You get downrated for not offering amenities.

I could go on but you get the idea.

Ratings system as it is needs changes.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

AB5 is going to pass. Lyft and Uber will fight it, and lose.

Lyft and Uber will change only what is necessary to keep drivers. No one is forcing them to create schedules, like they are threatening. They threatened it in NY and NY called their bluff. Guess what? No schedules have been created in NY.

If Uber/Lyft make things too challenging for drivers, they will have a mass exodus of drivers. There is a fine line between pissing off a driver and angering them so much that they quit. The trick, for the companies, is to avoid too many quitting at once. If that happens, you will see a major reversal in company policies. Bonuses will be offered, surges will return, quests will mean something once again - if too many drivers quit at once, then their business is TRULY in jeopardy!

The major thing AB5 does is force them to pay a living wage. The companies can live with higher driver pay. They simply need to cut the fat elsewhere, instead of cutting the meat (drivers pay) off the bone. If Nike can build shoes in Vietnam instead of America, why can't these companies hire programmers that cost $5,000 per year instead of $200,000? I mean, the app is already built, right? They don't NEED to have their HQ in San Francisco, they could save a fortune relocating to Gary, Indiana. They don't need to have in-house kitchens and beer kegs on tap 24/7. They definitely don't need a fleet of lawyers - just stop lying and stealing from people, and the lawsuits will diminish!!!! And, seriously, there is no need to offer subsidized fares to people who would otherwise take the bus. These people will go right back to the bus as soon as the discounts disappear, so why give money-losing rides for no reason?


----------



## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Did anyone mention a suitcase containing $5 million, and a helicopter bound for some tropical island with no extradition treaty?


----------



## UberIsAllFubared (Feb 24, 2016)

CT1 said:


> LOL
> 
> and while we're at it,
> 
> ...


Trust and believe, all of the OPs demands will be cheaper than the alternative of drivers being employees. PAYROLL TAXES, this alone will kill both uber and lyft. They lose a billion a quarter, and now they will have to pay payroll taxes. REIMBURSE DRIVERS FOR EXPENSES. Employees don't have to pay for gas, tires, brakes, depreciation. HEALTH INSURANCE. They will have to offer health insurance according to cal law. THEY WILL BE SUBJECT TO LABOR LAWS. Uber/lyft will love dealing with all the labor complaints to the labor board.

So you laugh about the OPs demands, but they are still way cheaper than the alternative. Oh, and I can't wait for AB5 to pass. I would rather see both of these companies go out of business, and they will if we become employees. Only way around it is to let us be true independent contractors.


----------



## iPHX (Jun 7, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


Ahh famous last meal requests ~ I believe one of them orders an inmate never touched and the prison refused to grant any more meal requests for future executions. Sad thing is that even if you did manage to have Uber deliver on all demands you will only receive half the food as they deliver on Eats...and that's not counting what the driver eats.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

iPHX said:


> Ahh famous last meal requests ~ I believe one of them orders an inmate never touched and the prison refused to grant any more meal requests for future executions. Sad thing is that even if you did manage to have Uber deliver on all demands you will only receive half the food as they deliver on Eats...and that's not counting what the driver eats.


?????????????


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

I want my pony


----------



## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


I want a pony too

Don't forget that

In fact make it a unicorn



DanW said:


> In any meaningful sense yes, everything in your list is hyperbole or true of capitalism as an institution.
> 
> U/L are just run of the mill disruption capitalists, and their goal is to break laws and undercut drivers as much as possible while holding marketshare until L5 self-driving comes to market, they don't "care", but you won't find a corp listed on NASDAQ that does.
> 
> ...


Correction: U/L doesn't want to undercut drivers per say.

They just think it's necessary because they're idiots


----------



## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

A few points for latter-day Lyddiites and wanna-be Alinskys to consider:

First, I've been through countless market transactions, and I've yet to hear the word "demand" used. There's offer, acceptance, counter-offer ... but no demands made.

Next, California has too high an opinion of itself. Had only Detroit stood firm in the 60's! Still, all is not lost. Witness the many insurance companies that stopped writing policies after California rewrote their rules. There's simply no reason for Uber and Lyft to continue to operate should poisonous laws pass. Who will suffer then?

Finally, consider that all those tears being shed for the poor driver may be but crocodile tears. Don't be naive: there are plenty of folks who seek to destroy freedom and hate your happiness. EVERY time like-speaking reformers have been in charge massive misery has been the result. Venezuela, anyone?


----------



## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

sheonlydrivesdays said:


> Oh, I thought of one more thing. It should be mandatory, if you are an employee at Uber, (any of the Uber office locations including Corp headquarters and including the CEO) that you must complete 1,000 rides as a driver. No one's grandfathered - if you've been there 5 years - you still have to do it. New employees? Great you're the new director of blah, you start after you complete 1,000 rides.
> 
> The reason I say 1,000 is that the first 500 are kinda fun and adventurous. It's the next 500 you really learn from in my opinion.
> 
> I honestly think this would help the company tremendously.


-----------------------
Great idea ! More drivers on the road.



Karen Stein said:


> A few points for latter-day Lyddiites and wanna-be Alinskys to consider:
> 
> First, I've been through countless market transactions, and I've yet to hear the word "demand" used. There's offer, acceptance, counter-offer ... but no demands made.
> 
> ...


---------------------*---
California has too high an opinion of itself*. ???
It is proven history that NYC & Calif are leaders in public movements, however, this was started by NYC. Several groups that are nationwide - like Ride Share Drivers United and Gig Workers have brought the public's and politicians attention to what is going on with RS drivers. The last couple of demonstrations by **** took place in several large cities* worldwide*. 
True that Californian legislators seem to move quicker then the rest of the nation, when needed. Legal acts started in Calif. spread nationwide because the residents of other states demand it. 
What you are basically saying is that U/L will close if AB5 and other laws pass. 
I disagree -- Uber's goal is to control every aspect of the transportation industry worldwide. From Bicycles, scooters, ride share, trucking and on and on. What happens when AB5 passes ? Uber & Lyft have a barn full of high priced attorneys. It will be fought in court until everyone is sick of it. If they lose there, they will schedule all drivers under 30 hours and be considered part time, meaning no benefits. Driving time will be scheduled to drive when U/L want us to drive. That is what attorneys do -- they find loop holes and grey areas in the law to exploit. Going out of business -- never going to happen.


----------



## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the time spent thinking this through, but the answer is a union. To achieve a meaningful union, drivers need to be employees who can collectively action. Then, the people we hire to represent us (ie union dues) will poll all the members including yourself about what WE want, come up with a game plan, arm us with lawyers, and go to the mat.


----------



## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

I did not say "go out of business." I said they might stop doing business in places hostile to them. Bill like the one you advocate are most certainly hostile. I can easily see a company discontinuing business in San Francisco, California, or any other test market. Best to nip this community organizer anarchy in the bud.

Leaders in public movements? Small wonder businesses and people are stampeding away. Much as the entrepraneuers in "Atlas Shrugged," folks are leaving the looters to wallow in their own misery.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> they might stop doing business in places hostile to them.


Hostile to them ... that's a joke in itself right there.

Uber and Lyft have REPEATEDLY been the hostile ones. EVERYWHERE!!

Furthermore, the AB5 train has started rolling, sister! Started in NYC, now on to CA. Over the next 12-24 months it will spread like wildfire to the rest of the states (Hint - Seattle is next, look up yesterday's news). Where are they gonna go? Are they going to vacate the entire US of A????

Notice how just yesterday the CA governor publicly showed support for the Bill? He will side with 200,000 vocal underpaid _voters_ and their families. And so will EVERY OTHER POLITICIAN IN THE USA.

Think about it. Those assholes at U/L are about to get a well deserved kick in the financial nuts.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Dropking said:


> Thanks for the time spent thinking this through, but the answer is a union. To achieve a meaningful union, drivers need to be employees who can collectively action. Then, the people we hire to represent us (ie union dues) will poll all the members including yourself about what WE want, come up with a game plan, arm us with lawyers, and go to the mat.


I've got nothing against unions, but I don't want to be an employee.

I want to work when I want, and downtime is usually part of the job.

If drivers become employees, they'll have to be paid whether they have pax/deliveries or not, which makes downtime expensive for the companies.

The result would be layoffs and schedule restrictions, neither of which is a good thing.

For some drivers, being a union driver employee is the best system, but not for everyone.

While no system is perfect, I believe the best all around solution is to keep the system we have now, but with vastly better pay rates and treatment of the drivers, and a genuine voice for the drivers.


----------



## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> I've got nothing against unions, but I don't want to be an employee.
> 
> I want to work when I want, and downtime is usually part of the job.
> 
> ...


The difference is you would be paid for downtime. Workers negotiate with employers all the time about their work hours, so I dont see the work hour argument as a serious one. It's a red herring thrown out their by lyft and uber to scare people IMHO.

The result isn't layoffs per se, but rate increases. The passengers will have to pay more for uber and lyft rides which are unsustainably cheap right now. They are cheap because these amoral companies decided they should be competing with public transit systems like busses and trains. That idiocy has always been contrary to good public policy. They need to raise their rates to pay drivers what drivers should be earning.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Dropking said:


> The difference is you would be paid for downtime. Workers negotiate with employers all the time about their work hours, so I dont see the work hour argument as a serious one. It's a red herring thrown out their by lyft and uber to scare people IMHO.
> 
> The result isn't layoffs per se, but rate increases. The passengers will have to pay more for uber and lyft rides which are unsustainably cheap right now. They are cheap because these amoral companies decided they should be competing with public transit systems like busses and trains. That idiocy has always been contrary to good public policy. They need to raise their rates to pay drivers what drivers should be earning.


The problem is that being paid for downtime is expensive, and the result would be layoffs and schedule restrictions.

They can't raise fares to the point where they're too far above taxis, otherwise business will suffer.

You don't have to sell me on how evil these companies are. I've ripped them zillions of times on this website. Take a look at my posts.

I don't believe employee status will work out.


----------



## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

Got to love how's quickly the least bit of dispute brings out the name calling. The veiled hatred is revealed 

I'll rebut Marx with Lennon. John Lennon. "If you're talking about minds that hate, all I can tell you is brother, you have to wait."

ALL politicians will agree? ALL? That's a rich one. I can think of one particular politician who will not - and I'm guessing he will be re-approved by the voters, in a landslide, next year.

I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. Be sure to remind me of this post in fourteen months. 

Don't make me stop the motor of the world ?


----------



## WokeUP (Dec 19, 2018)

get rid of the drug test. what we do on our off hours is our business.


----------



## stpetej (Jul 3, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


Ability to block pings to block certain addresses. Like the dive bar not too far from my house.

And completely block certain pax. I've encountered 2 truly dangerous situations. The response is the standard "you won't be matched...". Yeah, but what about other drivers? Just pretend you care.

Don't hire "support" (hah!) personell with strong accents whom I cannot possibly understand. And stop with the standard opening line. PLEASE! You are not sorry and i'm obviously frustrated, angry, dismayed or I wouldn't be calling. TRAIN these people!


----------



## Steve appleby (May 30, 2015)

The problem that I see with AB5 is that it’s one of those examples of you give an inch and they want a mile. I personally oppose switching from independent contractor to employee status. Why? I don’t wanna lose my flexible hours. And you can thank the idiots that live in California for it. As a student who does Uber part time I don’t want to switch to having to do shifts. Uber was never designed to support someone with a family. Why people can’t get a second or third job is beyond me. Frankly I don’t even consider California to be a part of the United States because their policies are so far to the left they are not even on par with the rest the country. Then what’s going to happen is people are going to see what happened in California and it’s going to spread out the other states. way to go California, jacking it all up for everybody. It’s not my problem that people in California have to pay almost 5 dollars a gallon for gas, it’s not my problem that you have to pay $4000 a month for rent. Don’t make life hell for everybody else just because you want entitlements


----------



## Hopindrew (Jan 30, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> AB5 has a better than 50/50 chance of passing, and if it does, uber, lyft, and the others will be desperately looking for a compromise.
> 
> If it doesn't pass, the drivers and supporters will still demand major change.
> 
> ...


It has a 100% chance of passing. Ab5 is a must. It will bring Uber, Lyft etc to their knees because it will destroy them and they know this. They need to be put down like a rabid animal. NYC first, California 2nd, who's next?


----------



## Lessthanminimum (Nov 5, 2017)

I love the Uber / Lyft shills in here knocking the poster. Nothing posted by him was unreasonable but bootlickers insist on licking the soles of their masters shoes clean.


----------



## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Hopindrew said:


> It has a 100% chance of passing. Ab5 is a must. It will bring Uber, Lyft etc to their knees because it will destroy them and they know this. They need to be put down like a rabid animal. NYC first, California 2nd, who's next?


The thing about chemotherapy is yeah you kill the cancer cells but you also kill the good cells too


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Steve appleby said:


> Uber was never designed to support someone with a family.


This has to be the zillionth time this myth has been posted on this website.

At one time uber promoted rideshare as a high-paying FULL TIME job.

Uber even resorted to FALSE ADVERTISING by claiming full time drivers were averaging $90,000 per year.

The govt sued uber, and they were forced to pay $20,000,000 to settle the suit.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Steve appleby said:


> Don't make life hell for everybody else just because you want entitlements


this sounds like someone who would be against a new country free from British rule...

Since when does wanting a fair share get you a label of entitled??


----------



## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Steve appleby said:


> Uber was never designed to support someone with a family.


 Very interesting. Are you a member of Uber app design team? I mean i just wonder where your over-confidence coming from? Are you a businessmen who started similar businesses? Please help me to understand your confidence.


----------



## Lessthanminimum (Nov 5, 2017)

XPG said:


> Very interesting. Are you a member of Uber app design team? I mean i just wonder where your over-confidence coming from? Are you a businessmen who started similar businesses? Please help me to understand your confidence.


Uber and Lyft pay bootlickers to come in here and spout the virtues of minimum wage.


----------



## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Lessthanminimum said:


> Uber and Lyft pay bootlickers to come in here and spout the virtues of minimum wage.


 Tragically they are very bad at licking too.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Steve appleby said:


> Uber was never designed to support someone with a family.


Spoken by someone who should have been swept up in the layoffs in the Uber marketing department.


----------



## RusDqD (Aug 8, 2019)

I got it!
Next step of licking will be:

"You idiots! Uber and Lyft were not designed to make you money!"

I believe there will always be somebody ready to drive for $5/hour. 
Happiness of Lyft-Uber bosses depends on this!


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Haha


Mista T said:


> Hostile to them ... that's a joke in itself right there.
> 
> Uber and Lyft have REPEATEDLY been the hostile ones. EVERYWHERE!!
> 
> ...


Haha, They are having tantrums over having to follow labor laws like any other business. I love how the tide just turned in less than a year. NY, C.A! They want a special carve out Or they will leave the US market. Banned in South America, ASIA, most of EUROPE already, so it's not like anyone will welcome them. They should spend the money they have and go to Mars or the Moon, and use their own app to drive themselves around up there. Away from society!


----------



## Steve appleby (May 30, 2015)

XPG said:


> Very interesting. Are you a member of Uber app design team? I mean i just wonder where your over-confidence coming from? Are you a businessmen who started similar businesses? Please help me to understand your confidence.


No I got off my ass and got a second job. I didn't whine, *****, and complain about my working conditions.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Karen Stein said:


> I did not say "go out of business." I said they might stop doing business in places hostile to them. Bill like the one you advocate are most certainly hostile. I can easily see a company discontinuing business in San Francisco, California, or any other test market. Best to nip this community organizer anarchy in the bud.
> 
> Leaders in public movements? Small wonder businesses and people are stampeding away. Much as the entrepraneuers in "Atlas Shrugged," folks are leaving the looters to wallow in their own misery.


You go Karen !!! Drive for low rates!!!
You do it . I won't . And when you cannot afford a new car . I ll came in and drive in the new rates .
Stampeding away?. This companies are raping us and you talk about Atlas Shrugged?
You know why this companies raping us?
For people like you that either do not ad 1+1 before they seat behind the CAR or enjoy a corporate salary and do not known shit about rideshare.
Let me make it clear to you in simple words. In my MARKET , you cannot operate a car for hire at 60 cents a mile and turn a profit. You just CAN"T.
That is why TAXICABS charge $2.50 a mile.


----------



## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

Steve appleby said:


> No I got off my ass and got a second job. I didn't whine, @@@@@, and complain about my working conditions.


So you are not a member of Uber design team. You don't know anything about designing a taxi dispatch application but you have enough confidence to say this "Uber was never designed to support someone with a family." How tragic.


----------



## RusDqD (Aug 8, 2019)

Steve appleby said:


> No I got off my ass and got a second job. I didn't whine, @@@@@, and complain about my working conditions.


Instead of getting wet and insulting fellow drivers that are for sure


Spoiler: moderated



@@@@ing west coasters are some entitled piece of shit.


 you could find 3d and 4th job. If that is so easy for you!

But you choose wasting time on forum and complain about changing working conditions insulting your own community.
Poor employers do not know how unfriendly the worker is! What a team player they hire?


----------



## Cold Fusion (Aug 28, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/business/economy/uber-lyft-california.html


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Anytime somebody mention a Union , some day you are lazy and get another job but what they do not get is that the perch’s they enjoy were fought and win by an union .
8 hours days
Benefits
Pay leave
Worker rights
Workplace safety
and more

All these things were hard fought by unions before became a standard on today’s job market.
Most of us , we are enjoying something that other seem imposible.
Do not take it for granted.


----------



## Steve appleby (May 30, 2015)

Well when Uber leaves the state of California you guys arent gonna be laughing anymore. Uber is going to relocate to Texas you watch. Nobody wants to do business in California because it’s simply too many regulations and the taxes are too high. If AB5 passes I can almost guarantee you Uber is going to pull out of California. Uber is going to have the last laugh in this.


----------



## Steve appleby (May 30, 2015)

Well I can tell you right now I’m gonna laugh my ass off if AB5 and then Everyone’s out of a job. I hope you guys realize that with this bill surge is gonna be gone, Setting your own hours is gonna be gone, And you will be FORCED to drive and maintain standards or you will be fired. It’ll be a big fat “I told you so” but go right ahead and keep on with it and you’ll be out of a job when Uber pulls out of California. It’ll be such a thing of beauty.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Help me understand. Free markets are not enough that this companies need to rigged the system to rape employees and when they are call to account , you guys take their sides. Have you ever drove rideshare in your life?
I am not completely bought in regulation but we already know what lack of regulation does to drivers.
Rideshare is NOT GOING ANYEHRRE. Will be UBER , GOOGLE or AMSXON but it is so entrenched in the culture that is here to stay.


----------



## Steve appleby (May 30, 2015)

This is all about money people, people just want more money. That’s all this is about. It’s a big game of drivers saying “I want more money!!” And Uber finding ways to not pay drivers more money. This is America people, it you ain’t cheatin, YOU AINT TRYING! It’s also a classic example of Uber giving an inch and drivers wanting a mile. I don’t live in California (thank god) but i just don’t see this ending well for drivers. Uber is going to fire or lay-off half of its drivers and is going to tighten its parameters when it comes to cancellation rates and acceptance rates. That will be an excuse to get rid of drivers. As a driver to drive in Maryland I want my flexibility. One of the reasons why I’m watching this is because this stupidity will spread to other states and I am not willing to drive shifts. Like I said in my original post, Uber is not setup for drivers to support a family, especially in places like California. Yes the standard of living in California is extremely expensive, but I don’t live in an area that is extremely expensive to live in. You can’t just scream and wine your way to a pay raise. If Uber goes under then nobody wins. I just think that AB5 is going to kill the rideshare industry because people don’t see the bigger picture. Some people are willing to ruin other people lives in the interest of being a social justice warrior. I just think this will be a complete disaster in the end and Uber will simply pull the pin on the grenade and no one wins. When you have very blue states like California who taxes the living shit out of everything and everyone, regulates the living shit out of businesses, and doesn’t respect people’s basic rights (like the 2nd amendment) it makes life very hard for people. I personally think that California needs to become its own country. As a conservative I personally disagree with a lot of California’s laws and political stances. all one has to do is look at the homeless problem in California. That says a lot about how California operates and treats its citizens. Government cannot and will not solve all of your problems.


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Steve appleby said:


> Well when Uber leaves the state of California you guys arent gonna be laughing anymore. Uber is going to relocate to Texas you watch. Nobody wants to do business in California because it's simply too many regulations and the taxes are too high. If AB5 passes I can almost guarantee you Uber is going to pull out of California. Uber is going to have the last laugh in this.


No, Uber will lose more than California will. New ride share companies would fill the void the moment Uber and Lyft pull out. The economy of California is the fifth largest in the world, there is no way they leave. They would bend over like they did in New York.


----------



## UberPotomac (Oct 8, 2016)

Steve appleby said:


> This is all about money people, people just want more money. That's all this is about. It's a big game of drivers saying "I want more money!!" And Uber finding ways to not pay drivers more money. This is America people, it you ain't cheatin, YOU AINT TRYING! It's also a classic example of Uber giving an inch and drivers wanting a mile. I don't live in California (thank god) but i just don't see this ending well for drivers. Uber is going to fire or lay-off half of its drivers and is going to tighten its parameters when it comes to cancellation rates and acceptance rates. That will be an excuse to get rid of drivers. As a driver to drive in Maryland I want my flexibility. One of the reasons why I'm watching this is because this stupidity will spread to other states and I am not willing to drive shifts. Like I said in my original post, Uber is not setup for drivers to support a family, especially in places like California. Yes the standard of living in California is extremely expensive, but I don't live in an area that is extremely expensive to live in. You can't just scream and wine your way to a pay raise. If Uber goes under then nobody wins. I just think that AB5 is going to kill the rideshare industry because people don't see the bigger picture. Some people are willing to ruin other people lives in the interest of being a social justice warrior. I just think this will be a complete disaster in the end and Uber will simply pull the pin on the grenade and no one wins. When you have very blue states like California who taxes the living shit out of everything and everyone, regulates the living shit out of businesses, and doesn't respect people's basic rights (like the 2nd amendment) it makes life very hard for people. I personally think that California needs to become its own country. As a conservative I personally disagree with a lot of California's laws and political stances. all one has to do is look at the homeless problem in California. That says a lot about how California operates and treats its citizens. Government cannot and will not solve all of your problems.


I would not mind if people like you loose this job. It will be a great cleansing.Just because YOU CHEAT, we are not all cheaters. Just because you don't need the money and want to make some extra on the way to BINGO TUESDAYS, does not mean everybody else does.
This is America. People should get PAID for their work and people like you that use it as a hobby are ruining other people source of income.
" as a Conservative" what hat mean?
Spending taxpayers money on the causes that benefit you instead of all of us.
Because the rep of " responsible" is out of the window.
You guys are the " grab by the pu***y party.
Don't came here and lecture because you guys lost all credibility.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Steve appleby said:


> If AB5 passes I can almost guarantee you Uber is going to pull out of California.


You're smoking crack. Uber won't leave CA any more than they left NY. They will simply file lawsuits and maybe break more laws. But they won't vacate.



Steve appleby said:


> It's also a classic example of Uber giving an inch and drivers wanting a mile.


Hmmm. Kind of like EVERY PAST INTERACTION drivers have had with Uber, except in reverse: drivers have wanted an inch and Uber took a mile.

Uber can suck it, they got it coming!


----------



## RusDqD (Aug 8, 2019)

Steve appleby said:


> Uber is not setup for drivers to support a family, especially in places like California


Who told you that? Do not be so selfish.
Uber from start promised 100k per year! That is more than enough to support family.



Steve appleby said:


> AB5 is going to kill the rideshare industry


Rideshare is not an industry. You do not see the bigger picture! It is taxi-commute industry.
Rideshare is just the way so save money for poor people and to make more money for smart people.



Steve appleby said:


> people don't see the bigger picture


Who told you that you see big picture and your picture bigger than others?

You are totally wrong.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

CT1 said:


> LOL
> 
> 17) 75 virgins


Acutally, in the koran, the 75 virgins was a mistranslation, I believe it should have been interpreted as 75 raisins.

Seriously !

https://globalnation.inquirer.net/163694/raisins-not-virgins-quran-scholars-say


----------



## Uberdriver914 (Jun 15, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


Your rates are still too low 1.95 per mile and .45 per min at least AT LEAST

Uber working us like we a 3rd world country


----------



## Steve appleby (May 30, 2015)

So let’s just say Uber doesn’t pull out of California, What Uber is going to do is make life a living hell for all the drivers. Yeah, Uber is going to tighten the parameters on cancellation and acceptance rates and even ratings. It’s now going to require that Uber hold your hand throughout the whole process. If you don’t meet the standards, guess what? YOU’RE FIRED. Uber is going to make it impossible for drivers to keep up with the parameters and then that will give them an excuse to fire half its drivers, which in turn you fire half of your ”employees”, YOU DONT HAVE TO PAY THEM. It’s basically going to be like Uber pro except the requirements will determine whether or not you have a job or not. Uber is going to find a way to get around this and frankly it’ll cost alot of jobs.


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Steve appleby said:


> So let's just say Uber doesn't pull out of California, What Uber is going to do is make life a living hell for all the drivers. Yeah, Uber is going to tighten the parameters on cancellation and acceptance rates and even ratings. It's now going to require that Uber hold your hand throughout the whole process. If you don't meet the standards, guess what? YOU'RE FIRED. Uber is going to make it impossible for drivers to keep up with the parameters and then that will give them an excuse to fire half its drivers, which in turn you fire half of your "employees", YOU DONT HAVE TO PAY THEM. It's basically going to be like Uber pro except the requirements will determine whether or not you have a job or not. Uber is going to find a way to get around this and frankly it'll cost alot of jobs.


So what are drivers supposed to do? Bend over and continue to get raped by LyUber? Lyft has already taken total advantage of drivers py only paying 33 cents a mile. Better be employees than work for prison wages. LyUber should stop being greedy and agree to negotiate with drivers as human beings rather than looking at them as slaves.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Steve appleby said:


> It's now going to require that Uber hold your hand throughout the whole process. If you don't meet the standards, guess what? YOU'RE FIRED. Uber is going to make it impossible for drivers to keep up with the parameters and then that will give them an excuse to fire half its drivers,


Boy, you sure do make a lot of assumptions.

First of all, AB5 won't REQUIRE Uber to change ANYTHING except how drivers are categorized and compensated. Uber will not be forced to create schedules or fire people or leave the state or anything else.

Second, anyone with experience in the business world knows that companies will ADJUST and do what it takes to survive - kind of like what drivers have had to do. Uber has already started that process ... making micro loans to drivers will increase profits tremendously!

Cool your jets, junior. You obviously are just making worst case scenario guesses, and you are way off.


----------



## Wonkytonk (Jan 28, 2018)

12 dollars for an airport run might be way too little in a lot of markets so I would suggest tie the minimum airport rate to that of taxis in that market. If a city has imposed a flat rate for taxis that rate should apply to rideshare companies with the driver receiving at minimum 75 percent of that fare.

Dashcams should not only be allowed, but encouraged, and I'll add that the Rider Terms Of Service should require them to accept the use of dashcams to include both video and audio recording as a condition of being allowed on the platform as a rider.

Seatbelts should be mandatory and also in the terms of service.

Child seats should also be mandatory with zero tolerance try to get in without one once and lose access to the platform.

Minors attempting to access the platform should also be grounds for termination of the account, and any and all accounts tied to the same credit card.

Absolutely no two or more stop rides. There are enough drivers to make it trivial for riders to get another driver within minutes. If it will take them only the three minutes they say it will take to accomplish whatever they say they need to accomplish at the stop, fine then end the ride and request another driver immediately and they'll have their driver when they're ready. Or they'll pay the no show cancellation fee, but they'll learn.

Good Job Nats121. Well done.



Nats121 said:


> In other posts I've advocated for drivers being paid a minimum of 75% of local taxi rates, and $1.50 per mile is lower than 75% in most markets, so I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it.


I cringe every time I see 75%. Really their take should be 10% and frankly that's generous for what they do. They have virtually no skin in the game other than collecting the money we earn.

How about this drivers get one hundred percent of the fare and pay Uber an overly generous 20% of the total fare. Riders would be A-OK with that believe me because they would understand that for what Uber does 20% is more than enough. Frankly it's probably what most of them think is what Uber is getting now.


----------



## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


Excellent point.



CT1 said:


> LOL
> 
> and while we're at it,
> 
> ...


 It is so obviously you are not U/L driver!



Steve appleby said:


> So let's just say Uber doesn't pull out of California, What Uber is going to do is make life a living hell for all the drivers. Yeah, Uber is going to tighten the parameters on cancellation and acceptance rates and even ratings. It's now going to require that Uber hold your hand throughout the whole process. If you don't meet the standards, guess what? YOU'RE FIRED. Uber is going to make it impossible for drivers to keep up with the parameters and then that will give them an excuse to fire half its drivers, which in turn you fire half of your "employees", YOU DONT HAVE TO PAY THEM. It's basically going to be like Uber pro except the requirements will determine whether or not you have a job or not. Uber is going to find a way to get around this and frankly it'll cost alot of jobs.


You forgot something. U/L they need drivers, they can't operate without drivers. Of course they will do selection.
But as any other employer they must pay good driver much more then minimum wages.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Wonkytonk said:


> 12 dollars for an airport run might be way too little in a lot of markets so I would suggest tie the minimum airport rate to that of taxis in that market. If a city has imposed a flat rate for taxis that rate should apply to rideshare companies with the driver receiving at minimum 75 percent of that fare.
> 
> Dashcams should not only be allowed, but encouraged, and I'll add that the Rider Terms Of Service should require them to accept the use of dashcams to include both video and audio recording as a condition of being allowed on the platform as a rider.
> 
> ...


I'm certainly willing to go higher on the airport minimum fare and make Uber's cut less than 25%, but I was thinking about what drivers could realistically demand and get.

Upon further reflection, the drivers should demand MORE than they think they'll get and "compromise" down to what they'll accept, the way many sellers ask for MORE than they're willing to accept and negotiate down to their ACTUAL price.


----------



## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Steve appleby said:


> So let's just say Uber doesn't pull out of California, What Uber is going to do is make life a living hell for all the drivers. Yeah, Uber is going to tighten the parameters on cancellation and acceptance rates and even ratings. It's now going to require that Uber hold your hand throughout the whole process. If you don't meet the standards, guess what? YOU'RE FIRED. Uber is going to make it impossible for drivers to keep up with the parameters and then that will give them an excuse to fire half its drivers, which in turn you fire half of your "employees", YOU DONT HAVE TO PAY THEM. It's basically going to be like Uber pro except the requirements will determine whether or not you have a job or not. Uber is going to find a way to get around this and frankly it'll cost alot of jobs.


But, who is going to driver car and make money for Uber?


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

How about Uber lyft buy the drivers 1 Popeyes chicken sandwich everyday and drivers agree to drive 12 hours a day with 100% AR/ at ,28 cents a mile?


----------



## Joey101 (Mar 26, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


Be aware that most of the people that will answer you are uber or lyft trolls 
They will laugh on you and make you sound stupid so just want to let you know


----------



## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

CT1 said:


> Topical Fruit Bubblicious
> 
> 10) Skittles
> 
> ...


deadmile?...



ducktaleswoohoo said:


> those are 1990s cab rates btw
> sounds good but i need $10 gross minimum fares


you guys are missing one huge thing. i'll use myself as an example.

im 43. in america i've ordered a cab under a dozen times my whole life. too expensive.

before i drove fulltime about year and half ago, i used uber/lyft to get to and from work, 3 miles away, for two years straight after my car broke down. thats over ten times a week, i started using it outside work as well. in one average week i used U/L more than taxis in 43 years. if rates weren't as good as they were i wouldn't have used it at all. my car broke down and i figured i'd use uber finally, for a week, until i got another car. then i realized it was possibly close to as cheap as owning my own car, plus i could drink at work now :smiles: being a bartender.

the $8 minimum and $1.50/mile to the driver, $2/minute would only destroy the gig entirely. theres a fine line where drivers can make a decent living if they put in the hours and give up some of the best times of the week like weekend nights. or they can drive 9-5 and do ok if thats what they like. just like bartending, the best money is also the time you really would prefer to have off, but you go with the money and make monday and tuesday your days off.

imo, there is a fine line and they crossed it in the last couple years, they just don't wan't to admit they were wrong and/or greedy. let's negotiate it back to where it was and there you have the great compromise, bc a great compromise is where neither side is 100% happy but happy enough to shake on it and call it a deal.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

got a p said:


> deadmile?...
> 
> 
> you guys are missing one huge thing. i'll use myself as an example.
> ...


Your story is actually an example of how Uber screwed up. When the gig started drivers were getting decent fares and plenty of surge rides. The pax at the time were actually happy even paying surge rates because the alternative was a cab or a limo at much higher prices. The original idea was not to compete with a public bus. The ride had a value.

Then, the Uber vs Lyft price wars started and the two jack assed companies ended up way under-valuing it's product. Now as a result a whole generation of pax has been conditioned to expect cheap rides. Great for volume but you can't make money on them.

McDonalds could lower the price of a hamburger to 18 cents. Great volume booster but what would the financial point be? Lose a lot of money?


----------



## Fat Man (May 17, 2019)

After my SECOND BS suspension on UP for being too honest and direct with someone. I will try to be more PC. Bro you need help. This is a part time gig ONLY. To many losers are wanting to be their own taxi service full time but want NO RISK! Why the hell should U/L be their safety net for THEIR business??!! With all business ventures... RISK=REWARD witch is the deal with all self employed people. And that is what this is. YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!! All the drivers in CA need to put their big boy/girl pants on, grow up, and see it for what it is. IF you can't make a go of it... you fold like ANY other business!


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Fat Man said:


> After my SECOND BS suspension on UP for being too honest and direct with someone. I will try to be more PC. Bro you need help. This is a part time gig ONLY. To many losers are wanting to be their own taxi service full time but want NO RISK! Why the hell should U/L be their safety net for THEIR business??!! With all business ventures... RISK=REWARD witch is the deal with all self employed people. And that is what this is. YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!! All the drivers in CA need to put their big boy/girl pants on, grow up, and see it for what it is. IF you can't make a go of it... you fold like ANY other business!


Just because it's a part time gig for you does not mean it shouldn't be a full time gig for someone else. If I remember correctly, Uber used to advertise that drivers could make $100K a year full time. And LyUber both employ different techniques in order to keep their drivers logged on longer. If it wasn't for the full time drivers, LyUber wouldn't be able to service most of their customers.


----------



## Uarefree (Sep 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


Okay,??⚖?,
If you need a ride to the bargaining table?
I'll Uber you, trips on me!!!


----------



## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Steve appleby said:


> So let's just say Uber doesn't pull out of California, What Uber is going to do is make life a living hell for all the drivers. Yeah, Uber is going to tighten the parameters on cancellation and acceptance rates and even ratings. It's now going to require that Uber hold your hand throughout the whole process. If you don't meet the standards, guess what? YOU'RE FIRED. Uber is going to make it impossible for drivers to keep up with the parameters and then that will give them an excuse to fire half its drivers, which in turn you fire half of your "employees", YOU DONT HAVE TO PAY THEM. It's basically going to be like Uber pro except the requirements will determine whether or not you have a job or not. Uber is going to find a way to get around this and frankly it'll cost alot of jobs.


Do not forget Uber without drivers is a useless app.


----------



## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Forget the phony and useless $21 per hour "guarantee".
> 
> Rideshare drivers in California (and hopefully the rest of the US) should make it clear to all companies that if employee status is to be avoided, the following conditions will have to be met...
> 
> ...


No one is paying over a dollar per mile. Sorry not happening. These are cab prices


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Greenfox said:


> No one is paying over a dollar per mile. Sorry not happening. These are cab prices


We shall see.

If employee status spreads beyond California, uber and lyft's very existence will be in serious jeopardy, therefore, they must prevent that from happening.

The THREAT of employee status spreading gives drivers massive leverage IF they choose to use it.

By using that leverage, uber and lyft will have no choice but to make major concessions, one of which is huge pay rate increases.


----------



## Greenfox (Sep 12, 2019)

CT1 said:


> So you feel you need $200/hr doing unskilled labor to call it fair?


I would hardly call dealing with pax UNSKILLED


----------



## RusDqD (Aug 8, 2019)

It comes from narrow mindedness. There is much bigger spot to hold up.
While talking about driver's compensations nobody takes into consideration the greater chance of involving into accident with fatal outcome.
It is driver's responsibility to provide safe and sound trips for riders. 
It is just supposed that every trip will end up smoothly, but sometimes bad things happen.

Where are these smart people who can trade their lives for $200/h?
Blabbers.


----------

