# Service Animal Update



## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

According to my GLH, plenty of drivers thinking they can refuse service to pax with a service animal. Now if a pax reports refusal driver is auto deactivated










Better hope someone without a dog wanting a free ride doesn't say you refused them and their service dog


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## Ms Stein Fanboy (Feb 11, 2017)

Shangsta said:


> According to my GLH, plenty of drivers thinking they can refuse service to pax with a service animal. Now if a pax reports refusal driver is auto deactivated
> 
> View attachment 99674
> 
> ...


Can you sue them for lost wages due to their dishonesty, with a gig like this? I've yet to have a serious lie against me in 3 years. I don't think most pax would even think of this lie anyways. There's the more common lies like bad route, or whatever. Pretty easy to prove someone doesn't really have a service dog, IF you can even arrange to prove it that is.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

True and the obvious answer to any accusation is dash cam but drivers who do refuse service animals aren't going to get much help from a dash cam


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

If Uber axes you with a 'fatal' decision based upon a passenger lie, you could have a frustrating task ahead. 

Customer service is a joke, and local offices are staffed with cheap workers that lack authority to override some issues. Results may vary.


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## Ms Stein Fanboy (Feb 11, 2017)

simpsonsverytall said:


> If Uber axes you with a 'fatal' decision based upon a passenger lie, you could have a frustrating task ahead.
> 
> Customer service is a joke, and local offices are staffed with cheap workers that lack authority to override some issues. Results may vary.


And security for when you raise your voice because they keep repeating the same not quite relevant thing while pretending you aren't saying what you're saying.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

I have still yet to get a service animal, or any animal. However, I drive mostly in the evenings on Fri and Sat so not many people are looking to take their pets with them to dinner or to the bar/club.

My plan is to ask the two questions they say you can ask:
*
"Is that a service animal and what service is it trained to perform?" *

If the answer isn't direct and to the point, or they say it's for emotional support.
*
"An emotional support animal is not the same as service animal and that lying about a service animal is punishable by federal law. Would you still like to continue?"*

I think most people would just go with another Uber rather than call my bluff.

Would a bluff going even further work or am I pushing the limited?
*
"I'll never refuse service to a legitimate service animal so you are welcomed aboard at this time, however note, that I will report this encounter to verify the service animal. Lying about a service animal is punishable by federal law. Would you still like to continue?"*


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> I have still yet to get a service animal, or any animal. However, I drive mostly in the evenings on Fri and Sat so not many people are looking to take their pets with them to dinner or to the bar/club.
> 
> My plan is to ask the two questions they say you can ask:
> *
> ...


One of the problems with this approach is that some states have far more stringent regulations than the Federal ADA.

I am not an expert on this subject, but I have read posts here which said that if a person makes almost any claim of support of any kind from an animal, it qualifies under that state's law. If that's correct, you could be right on the Federal law, but in trouble under state law.

So far this has been a non-issue for me. I've had one tiny dog with pax, and it was buttoned up in its carrier and incredibly well-behaved.


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## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

As someone who is in need of a service animal for PTSD I take great interest in threads about it.

If a driver ever says ANYTHING about my service animal other than the two questions they are allowed to ask I WILL cancel the ride and send an email to Uber/Lyft about it. A service animal is necessary medical equipment as determined by a doctor.

Don't get me wrong, it I detest people who claim they have a service animal just to take their dog everywhere with them. But you are only allowed to ask 2 things for a reason.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

JimKE said:


> One of the problems with this approach is that some states have far more stringent regulations than the Federal ADA.
> 
> I am not an expert on this subject, but I have read posts here which said that if a person makes almost any claim of support of any kind from an animal, it qualifies under that state's law. If that's correct, you could be right on the Federal law, but in trouble under state law.
> 
> So far this has been a non-issue for me. I've had one tiny dog with pax, and it was buttoned up in its carrier and incredibly well-behaved.


I'm confident that Georgia is not one of those states.



drivininsac said:


> As someone who is in need of a service animal for PTSD I take great interest in threads about it.
> 
> If a driver ever says ANYTHING about my service animal other than the two questions they are allowed to ask I WILL cancel the ride and send an email to Uber/Lyft about it. A service animal is necessary medical equipment as determined by a doctor.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it I detest people who claim they have a service animal just to take their dog everywhere with them. But you are only allowed to ask 2 things for a reason.


What did you think about my last line? This one, to attempt to weed out those without real Service Animals?

*"I'll never refuse service to a legitimate service animal so you are welcomed aboard at this time, however note, that I will report this encounter to verify the service animal. Lying about a service animal is punishable by federal law. Would you like to continue?"*


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Shangsta said:


> According to my GLH, plenty of drivers thinking they can refuse service to pax with a service animal. Now if a pax reports refusal driver is auto deactivated
> 
> View attachment 99674
> 
> ...


Yep that's right. My guess is, uber covers this requirement to drive for them bout as good as they cover the 1K deductible requirement. (When ya get in a fender bender and its your fault) Or, these drivers just aren't paying attention in Uber University. Lol!


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## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> What did you think about my last line? This one, to attempt to weed out those without real Service Animals?
> 
> *"I'll never refuse service to a legitimate service animal so you are welcomed aboard at this time, however note, that I will report this encounter to verify the service animal. Lying about a service animal is punishable by federal law. Would you like to continue?"*


I would cancel the ride and contact Lyft/Uber. You are inadvertently accusing the passenger of a crime and threatening to report them to someone. Handlers of an actual service animal know exactly how to answer the two questions and they know you are only allowed to ask the two questions. The handlers are actually trained by the company providing the service animal, or who helped train the animal, in how to answer these questions. If the answers seems _off_ to you then yes, as a driver, cancel the ride and inform the rider that you cannot transport them at this time. Then immediately email Lyft/Uber support with the exact wording of the passenger's response to the two questions and inform them that in your opinion the passenger's responses did not appear to indicate that the animal in question was actually a service animal.

Also, please remember that service animals are trained in public behavior and must not become aggressive to other people, animals, or show aggression of any kind. You, as a business owner, can reject service or ask a passenger to exit your vehicle if the animal shows any sign of aggression. Most service animals are trained to just lay down and enjoy the ride.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

Take note of the key words "there are many kinds of service animals" 
It leaves it W I D E O P E N as to what the definition of a "Service Animal" is.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

drivininsac said:


> I would cancel the ride and contact Lyft/Uber. You are inadvertently accusing the passenger of a crime and threatening to report them to someone. Handlers of an actual service animal know exactly how to answer the two questions and they know you are only allowed to ask the two questions. The handlers are actually trained by the company providing the service animal, or who helped train the animal, in how to answer these questions. If the answers seems _off_ to you then yes, as a driver, cancel the ride and inform the rider that you cannot transport them at this time. Then immediately email Lyft/Uber support with the exact wording of the passenger's response to the two questions and inform them that in your opinion the passenger's responses did not appear to indicate that the animal in question was actually a service animal.
> 
> Also, please remember that service animals are trained in public behavior and must not become aggressive to other people, animals, or show aggression of any kind. You, as a business owner, can reject service or ask a passenger to exit your vehicle if the animal shows any sign of aggression. Most service animals are trained to just lay down and enjoy the ride.


When do those without service animals recieve the specialized training to know the correct answers to the two questions?


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## 105398 (Aug 28, 2016)

This, albeit Colorado specific, is a great discussion on how to qualify and handle service and and other animal requests.

(the listen button is a kinda small but worth it)

http://www.cpr.org/news/story/what-makes-a-service-animal-new-law-says-it-takes-more-than-a-vest


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## heyimjason (Nov 27, 2015)

You can get almost any dog registered as a service animal by claiming it simply helps with anxiety or depression. No special training required.

But my question is - what if you get a service animal (even it if is legit) and it leaves friggin' hair all over your seats? Are you entitled to a cleaning fee?


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## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

heyimjason said:


> You can get almost any dog registered as a service animal by claiming it simply helps with anxiety or depression. No special training required.
> 
> But my question is - what if you get a service animal (even it if is legit) and it leaves friggin' hair all over your seats? Are you entitled to a cleaning fee?


No, you can't. There is NO registry for service animals. And yes special training is required. That is why there is the second question. "What tasks is the animal TRAINED to perform?"

As for your second question regarding a cleaning fee. I would say no, you don't get a cleaning fee. That is penalizing someone with a disability for having their medically needed animal with them. Now if the animal defecates or urinates in your vehicle then yes, ask for that cleaning fee. But hair? No.


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## heyimjason (Nov 27, 2015)

drivininsac said:


> No, you can't. There is NO registry for service animals. And yes special training is required. That is why there is the second question. "What tasks is the animal TRAINED to perform?"
> 
> As for your second question regarding a cleaning fee. I would say no, you don't get a cleaning fee. That is penalizing someone with a disability for having their medically needed animal with them. Now if the animal defecates or urinates in your vehicle then yes, ask for that cleaning fee. But hair? No.


Yes... you can. I know 3 people here that have done that. 1 guy did it just so he could take his awesome dog to his boring job. The other 2 did it specifically because they lived in great apartments that had no-pet policies. They just had to fill out a form, send something like $45, and that was that. They didn't have any special training other than to not shit indoors.

Trying to clean animal hair from upholstery can take a long time. It's not fair to expect people to have to do that. I'll have to email Uber and ask if they have any precedence or official rules on that one. Otherwise, everybody is just going to start saying they're allergic to dogs.


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## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

heyimjason said:


> Yes... you can. I know 3 people here that have done that. 1 guy did it just so he could take his awesome dog to his boring job. The other 2 did it specifically because they lived in great apartments that had no-pet policies. They just had to fill out a form, send something like $45, and that was that. They didn't have any special training other than to not shit indoors.
> 
> Trying to clean animal hair from upholstery can take a long time. It's not fair to expect people to have to do that. I'll have to email Uber and ask if they have any precedence or official rules on that one. Otherwise, everybody is just going to start saying they're allergic to dogs.


Please let us know what Uber says about a cleaning fee! It is an interesting question. And allergies aren't a sufficient reason to deny a service animal.

As for your friends, they got ripped off for $45. There is NO refistration requirement for service animals. They are also committing a crime unless their animal helps to mitigate a disability that is verifiable by a doctor.


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## heyimjason (Nov 27, 2015)

drivininsac said:


> Please let us know what Uber says about a cleaning fee! It is an interesting question. And allergies aren't a sufficient reason to deny a service animal.
> 
> As for your friends, they got ripped off for $45. There is NO refistration requirement for service animals. They are also committing a crime unless their animal helps to mitigate a disability that is verifiable by a doctor.


Allergies aren't a sufficient reason to deny a service animal? They sure are! If you're severely allergic to an animal, no reasonable person or agency is going to expect you to endanger your health. Hell, the Uber thing already said service animals can be denied for allergies or religious beliefs (which is just silly).

But no, they didn't get ripped off. They got whatever paperwork in the mail. The HR department had no problem letting the guy bring his dog to work after that. The two people (who lived at different apartment complexes, btw) had no issues from their leasing offices. I'll see if I can find the link to the organization that handles all that stuff. I could have sworn they also provided a bunch of legal info along with the forms.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

drivininsac said:


> Handlers of an actual service animal know exactly how to answer the two questions and they know you are only allowed to ask the two questions. The handlers are actually trained by the company providing the service animal, or who helped train the animal, in how to answer these questions.


I have not run into service animals while Ubering, but I have run into them in other settings -- and THIS exactly matches my experience.

You can't ask a person what their disability is -- but the legit ones will tell you exactly what the dog does for them.

And, as an EMT, I can tell you that legit service dogs are just as important as meds and other things disabled people NEED. Service dogs save lives.

Just so you know, there is no "credential" or any kind of document, that "certifies" a service dog. Cards, certificates, vests, and all sorts of stuff can be purchased online by anyone, but none of those are official. There is no legitimate "service dog registry," and the more "credentials" somebody shows me, the more skeptical I would become.

Just ask *what service the animal is trained to provide* and you'll get a perfect, _specific_ answer -- or not.



heyimjason said:


> You can get almost any dog registered as a service animal by claiming it simply helps with anxiety or depression. No special training required.


There is no such thing as a "registered" service animal. That's a fraudulent scheme.



> But my question is - what if you get a service animal (even it if is legit) and it leaves friggin' hair all over your seats? Are you entitled to a cleaning fee?


NO. Legitimate question, but no.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

heyimjason said:


> Allergies aren't a sufficient reason to deny a service animal? They sure are! If you're severely allergic to an animal, no reasonable person or agency is going to expect you to endanger your health. Hell, the Uber thing already said service animals can be denied for allergies or religious beliefs (which is just silly).


No, the Uber thing does not say they can be denied for allergies. The allergy excuse is a load BS, if your allergies are that bad, then technically you should not be allowed outside a sealed room, as ANY animal dander in the air would cause you severe allergic reactions. I'm allergic to pretty anything and everything, including my dog. Guess what, I take Claritan daily and get on with my life.



heyimjason said:


> But no, they didn't get ripped off. They got whatever paperwork in the mail. The HR department had no problem letting the guy bring his dog to work after that. The two people (who lived at different apartment complexes, btw) had no issues from their leasing offices. I'll see if I can find the link to the organization that handles all that stuff. I could have sworn they also provided a bunch of legal info along with the forms.


My father has his Yorkie registered as such, it's an emotional support animal. He paid $45 and has a little registration card, he's been denied service at a couple of places, by business owners who understand the law better than he does.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Again, however, a caution. SOME states have much more lenient/stringent (your choice) laws than the Federal ADA. So you need to know your local law as well as the Federal requirements.


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## heyimjason (Nov 27, 2015)

Frontier Guy said:


> No, the Uber thing does not say they can be denied for allergies. The allergy excuse is a load BS, if your allergies are that bad, then technically you should not be allowed outside a sealed room, as ANY animal dander in the air would cause you severe allergic reactions. I'm allergic to pretty anything and everything, including my dog. Guess what, I take Claritan daily and get on with my life.
> 
> My father has his Yorkie registered as such, it's an emotional support animal. He paid $45 and has a little registration card, he's been denied service at a couple of places, by business owners who understand the law better than he does.


You're right - I misread that. Wow, I'm surprised they expect people with allergies to deal with that. And as far as allergies go, everybody is different. My nephew can go out and do everything other kids do, but within a minute or two of being in the same room as some animals, he swells up and develops hives and rashes. His parents are rightfully not going to force him to take unnecessary medication for an easily preventable situation. He simply doesn't go into homes that have cats.

So.. you're saying that people can't deny animals for allergies, but then you say your father has been denied by business owners... on which grounds was he denied service?


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Because his Yorkie is not a legit service animal as defined by the ADA requirements, it's an emotional support animal only in that it keeps him calm, in his opinion. He paid the $45 for the card and all as well. BTW, his Yorkie is the only dog I do not allow in my pickup, solely because his Yorkie and my dog do not get along, and even the smell of the Yorkie will get my dog pissed.


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## Maven (Feb 9, 2017)

JimKE said:


> ... if a person makes almost any claim of support of any kind from an animal, it qualifies under that state's law...











Last time I transported "any kind". Service was "Never say no to an 800 pound gorilla!"


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## heyimjason (Nov 27, 2015)

Frontier Guy said:


> Because his Yorkie is not a legit service animal as defined by the ADA requirements, it's an emotional support animal only in that it keeps him calm, in his opinion. He paid the $45 for the card and all as well. BTW, his Yorkie is the only dog I do not allow in my pickup, solely because his Yorkie and my dog do not get along, and even the smell of the Yorkie will get my dog pissed.


Gotcha. So if someone says their support animal is an emotional support animal, you can deny them a ride?


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

i'll start offering treats for service dogs


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## RansomT (Sep 21, 2015)

heyimjason said:


> Allergies aren't a sufficient reason to deny a service animal? They sure are! If you're severely allergic to an animal, no reasonable person or agency is going to expect you to endanger your health.


Your not really dealing with a "reasonable agency", your dealing with the federal government. American's with Disabilities Act (ADA) define the following:

*Under the ADA, State and local governments, businesses, and nonprofit organizations that serve the public generally must allow service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas where the public is normally allowed to go.*

*....Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals.

*
For reference*: https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm *


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## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

heyimjason said:


> Gotcha. So if someone says their support animal is an emotional support animal, you can deny them a ride?


That is correct. If it is an emotional support animal you can deny them. If they answer the two questions and the animal is a SERVICE animal you can't deny.


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

I just carry a dog cover for the back seat.


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## heyimjason (Nov 27, 2015)

RansomT said:


> Your not really dealing with a "reasonable agency", your dealing with the federal government. American's with Disabilities Act (ADA) define the following:
> 
> *Under the ADA, State and local governments, businesses, and nonprofit organizations that serve the public generally must allow service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas where the public is normally allowed to go.*
> 
> ...


You're right about not dealing with a "reasonable agency." There are people refusing to sell birth control due to silly religious beliefs, but someone that has a legit allergy to service animals would be expected to suffer through it or face penalties? Shit.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

There is a difference between support and service animals. Anything can be a support animal. Service animals are specially trained for specific life saving or important function that the disabled individual is inable to do.



heyimjason said:


> You're right about not dealing with a "reasonable agency." There are people refusing to sell birth control due to silly religious beliefs, but someone that has a legit allergy to service animals would be expected to suffer through it or face penalties? Shit.


Allegies are easy to control and if severe enough, you shouldnt be in the public service industry that requires isolated exposure in confined spaces. In retail, you can excuse yourself to another part of the building or take a break outside while the service animal is present. Its unfortunate that the nature of Ubering prevents you from such separation so you either accept that and take your allergy medicine or you find a job that doesnt restrict you from leaving the presence of the animal.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

drivininsac said:


> That is correct. If it is an emotional support animal you can deny them. If they answer the two questions and the animal is a SERVICE animal you can't deny.


*Be careful with this line of reasoning. * You are in California, and being in the state capital you should know as well as anyone what "interesting" laws your legislature enacts.

The Federal ADA is the _minimum_ we have to do to accommodate disabled persons nationally.

Some states have more stringent laws, and if I had to make a list of states that might enact more stringent laws, California would be at the top of the list.

KNOW your state law, because it may very well require you to take support animals as well as service animals.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Ms Stein Fanboy said:


> Can you sue them for lost wages due to their dishonesty, with a gig like this? I've yet to have a serious lie against me in 3 years. I don't think most pax would even think of this lie anyways. There's the more common lies like bad route, or whatever. Pretty easy to prove someone doesn't really have a service dog, IF you can even arrange to prove it that is.


If a passenger tries to say you refused a service animal, they would have to prove that they had a service animal. Other than that the history of the request for the ride, the acceptance of the ride by you, and the GPS showing that you showed up at the pickup point and did not continue the ride for some reason, would all have to be prove it. If you challenged the pax's accusation Uber would have to go over all of those things to verify. If they just didn't want to be bothered doing it, which is always a distinct possibility, you would have the ability of course to hire an attorney and go after the packs for making the false accusation in the first place. The packs could also get in trouble with the government as it is against the law to claim that you have a service animal when you do not.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

JimKE said:


> *Be careful with this line of reasoning. * You are in California, and being in the state capital you should know as well as anyone what "interesting" laws your legislature enacts.
> 
> The Federal ADA is the _minimum_ we have to do to accommodate disabled persons nationally.
> 
> ...


If your in california, you might as well assume all laws apply to you to the extreme.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

drivininsac said:


> I would cancel the ride and contact Lyft/Uber. You are inadvertently accusing the passenger of a crime and threatening to report them to someone. Handlers of an actual service animal know exactly how to answer the two questions and they know you are only allowed to ask the two questions. The handlers are actually trained by the company providing the service animal, or who helped train the animal, in how to answer these questions. If the answers seems _off_ to you then yes, as a driver, cancel the ride and inform the rider that you cannot transport them at this time. Then immediately email Lyft/Uber support with the exact wording of the passenger's response to the two questions and inform them that in your opinion the passenger's responses did not appear to indicate that the animal in question was actually a service animal.
> 
> Also, please remember that service animals are trained in public behavior and must not become aggressive to other people, animals, or show aggression of any kind. You, as a business owner, can reject service or ask a passenger to exit your vehicle if the animal shows any sign of aggression. Most service animals are trained to just lay down and enjoy the ride.


I went to the doctor couple of weeks ago and a gentleman was in the waiting room with his seeing eye dog. One of the clinicians in the office came out to him and asked if his dog would like a bowl of water for which she thanked her. When she brought the water out for the dog and put it down for her, the dog waited until her owner told her it was okay.

Service animals are working animals. They're not pets. While on duty they are essentially extensions of their owners. They are supposed to be considered a single unit for legal purposes. If you wouldn't deny service to the person you cannot deny service to the persons service animal. You would never tell someone, "I'm willing to transport you, but not your right arm."


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

JimKE said:


> Again, however, a caution. SOME states have much more lenient/stringent (your choice) laws than the Federal ADA. So you need to know your local law as well as the Federal requirements.


But federal law trumps state law so if your state is more lenient that is not an excuse to deny ADA riders



heyimjason said:


> Allergies aren't a sufficient reason to deny a service animal? They sure are! If you're severely allergic to an animal, no reasonable person or agency is going to expect you to endanger your health. Hell, the Uber thing already said service animals can be denied for allergies or religious beliefs (which is just silly).


Your reading comprehension is wow. It says service animals cannot be denied for those things and if you have an allergy to pets. There is medication to mitigate that


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## heyimjason (Nov 27, 2015)

Shangsta said:


> But federal law trumps state law so if your state is more lenient that is not an excuse to deny ADA riders
> 
> Your reading comprehension is wow. It says service animals cannot be denied for those things and if you have an allergy to pets. There is medication to mitigate that


Yeah, I admitted to reading that incorrectly earlier. That happens to us plebeians from time to time, when we're tired.

However, I still think it's ridiculous that any law could require anyone to take a service animal if the provider is allergic. Like I said, there are people out there refusing to sell alcohol, birth control, etc. due to silly religious convictions without facing any consequences.


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## iUBERdc (Dec 28, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> If your in california, you might as well assume all laws apply to you to the extreme.


Lmao as someone in the wild West of Virginia, I assume the worst for all regulations coming out of Cali!


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

JimKE said:


> *Be careful with this line of reasoning. * You are in California, and being in the state capital you should know as well as anyone what "interesting" laws your legislature enacts.





iUBERdc said:


> Lmao as someone in the wild West of Virginia, I assume the worst for all regulations coming out of Cali!





steveK2016 said:


> If your in california, you might as well assume all laws apply to you to the extreme.


It's really helpful for a bunch of well educated lawyers from every state except for California to regurgitate the BS that Rush Limbaugh told them about California. Thanks to all the UberDriving JD's from the intellectual south for your informed input.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

JimKE said:


> Again, however, a caution. SOME states have much more lenient/stringent (your choice) laws than the Federal ADA. So you need to know your local law as well as the Federal requirements.


They can't be more lenient. More stringent, yes.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Tedgey said:


> It's really helpful for a bunch of well educated lawyers from every state except for California to regurgitate the BS that Rush Limbaugh told them about California. Thanks to all the UberDriving JD's from the intellectual south for your informed input.


I grew up in California. You cannot pretend that California doesnt have some of the strictest laws of any state. NY may have it worse but CA is not far down the list. You dont need to be a lawyer to figure that out and you know it.


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## New Member 0001365427 (Aug 15, 2016)

So


JimKE said:


> One of the problems with this approach is that some states have far more stringent regulations than the Federal ADA.
> 
> I am not an expert on this subject, but I have read posts here which said that if a person makes almost any claim of support of any kind from an animal, it qualifies under that state's law. If that's correct, you could be right on the Federal law, but in trouble under state law.
> 
> So far this has been a non-issue for me. I've had one tiny dog with pax, and it was buttoned up in its carrier and incredibly well-behaved.


So what are the 2 correct answers?


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> If a passenger tries to say you refused a service animal, they would have to prove that they had a service animal. Other than that the history of the request for the ride, the acceptance of the ride by you, and the GPS showing that you showed up at the pickup point and did not continue the ride for some reason, would all have to be prove it. If you challenged the pax's accusation Uber would have to go over all of those things to verify. If they just didn't want to be bothered doing it, which is always a distinct possibility, you would have the ability of course to hire an attorney and go after the packs for making the false accusation in the first place. The packs could also get in trouble with the government as it is against the law to claim that you have a service animal when you do not.


Or...Uber could just deactivate you based on the allegation alone without asking the pax to prove a thing.

Which scenario sounds more Uber-like to you?



New Member 0001365427 said:


> So
> 
> So what are the 2 correct answers?


Yes and a description of what the dog does -- senses impending seizures, dangerous blood glucose levels, a number of other things. Plus the obvious ones like the owner is blind.

"Bad" answers would be emotional support dog, comfort animal, etc -- although some states may consider just about anything a service animal under state law.



Tedgey said:


> It's really helpful for a bunch of well educated lawyers from every state except for California to regurgitate the BS that Rush Limbaugh told them about California. Thanks to all the UberDriving JD's from the intellectual south for your informed input.


No problem. Happy to help.


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## New Member 0001365427 (Aug 15, 2016)

JimKE said:


> Or...Uber could just deactivate you based on the allegation alone without asking the pax to prove a thing.
> 
> Which scenario sounds more Uber-like to you?
> 
> ...


So this applies to California?


----------



## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

New Member 0001365427 said:


> So this applies to California?


If you mean the ADA yes it's federal law and I've said it a thousand times and nobody wants to listen (go figure, quack quack) the penalties for running afoul of this law are staggering. Like life changing staggering. Don't even worry about what Uber will due to you, don't worry about the federal government, although they'll get their share too, the civil penalties will ruin you. Don't mess around with it. If they say it's a service dog, believe them and do what they ask


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## AceManShow (Sep 24, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> I'm confident that Georgia is not one of those states.
> 
> What did you think about my last line? This one, to attempt to weed out those without real Service Animals?
> 
> *"I'll never refuse service to a legitimate service animal so you are welcomed aboard at this time, however note, that I will report this encounter to verify the service animal. Lying about a service animal is punishable by federal law. Would you like to continue?"*


Report to whom?
How can we verify the validity?
I'm in California by the way.


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## New Member 0001365427 (Aug 15, 2016)

Tedgey said:


> If you mean the ADA yes it's federal law and I've said it a thousand times and nobody wants to listen (go figure, quack quack) the penalties for running afoul of this law are staggering. Like life changing staggering. Don't even worry about what Uber will due to you, don't worry about the federal government, although they'll get their share too, the civil penalties will ruin you. Don't mess around with it. If they say it's a service dog, believe them and do what they ask


Thanks for clearing it up, hard enough doing uber math, now uber legal too, UGH


----------



## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

AceManShow said:


> Report to whom?
> How can we verify the validity?
> I'm in California by the way.


You can't verify the validity. There's no master list of service animals. Pretty much if somebody says it is then it is. The verification, if there was one would consist of verifying the person is eligible not the dog.

Remember this though, by definition if it's not a dog or a miniature horse then it doesn't qualify as a service animal. So cats, parrots, snakes, crickets, none of them are service animals and since your car can't accommodate a miniature horse you only have to worry about dogs


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

YES:










NO:


----------



## AceManShow (Sep 24, 2015)

Tedgey said:


> You can't verify the validity. There's no master list of service animals. Pretty much if somebody says it is then it is. The verification, if there was one would consist of verifying the person is eligible not the dog.
> 
> Remember this though, by definition if it's not a dog or a miniature horse then it doesn't qualify as a service animal. So cats, parrots, snakes, crickets, none of them are service animals and since your car can't accommodate a miniature horse you only have to worry about dogs


So taxi drivers can basically get pit bulls and Rottweilers, claim they are service animals, video record the interaction with FUBER drivers, then get a bunch of drivers deactivated for refusing service animals?

That would be a fast way to scale the competition down a bit. Lmao


----------



## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

AceManShow said:


> So taxi drivers can basically get pit bulls and Rottweilers, claim they are service animals, video record the interaction with FUBER drivers, then get a bunch of drivers deactivated for refusing service animals?
> 
> That would be a fast way to scale the competition down a bit. Lmao


Personally I have no problem with pit bulls or rottweilers or german shepherds or any kind of dog. I let people bring their dog all the time I couldn't care less. My concern here is the mountain of misinformation that has been spread around these forums regarding service animals and how this could come back to bite someone. The fines are WAAYYYY out of proportion and not worth the gamble.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

AceManShow said:


> Report to whom?
> How can we verify the validity?
> I'm in California by the way.


Key note to my reply, which was prior to that one, was that it was a BLUFF, meaning I wasn't going to report to anyone. It seemed like a bad idea and replies have only made it sound worse.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

In regards to allergies and person with a true service dog will understand and offer to cancel the request and order another car. I've had it happen, I also waited with them until the new driver arrived.

There are times Service Dogs can be denied access to buildings or particular areas of a building. https://uberpeople.net/threads/ada-wars-pax-service-animal-vs-my-allergies.74244/#post-1020670 (This thread has a lot of great info on the subject)

You can ask two questions:

1. Is the animal a service dog
2. What has it been trained to do (it must be a specific task)

A wrong answer to either of those is grounds to deny the ride.

I always ask if the animal is a comfort or emotional support animal an answer of yes results in a denied ride. Comfort or emotional support animals are not service dogs, period end of story.

http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html


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## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

Tedgey said:


> You can't verify the validity. There's no master list of service animals. Pretty much if somebody says it is then it is. The verification, if there was one would consist of verifying the person is eligible not the dog.
> 
> Remember this though, by definition if it's not a dog or a miniature horse then it doesn't qualify as a service animal. So cats, parrots, snakes, crickets, none of them are service animals and since your car can't accommodate a miniature horse you only have to worry about dogs


All your words un this thread are spot on. I just want to add that i want to give a ride to a mini horse.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

elelegido said:


> YES:
> 
> View attachment 99973
> 
> ...


YES


----------



## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> YES
> 
> http://www.varnerbrandt.com/postedpdf/***/image/Minature-service-guide-horse_ADA-Service-animal%20law.jpg


Aww...it lost it's shoe in the Uber!


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

New Member 0001365427 said:


> So this applies to California?


Assuming you're asking about the two questions you can ask: yes, *but...*

Yes, according to the Federal ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), only those two questions may be asked. As fuzzyelvis correctly pointed out, states can enact more stringent standards, but not more lenient.

In this context, a state could NOT say it was okay to ask additional questions of the disabled person -- because that would be a weakening of the law's protections.

However -- and this is the_ *"but"*_ part -- states can, and often do, make their laws stronger than the federal law. So California could say that a "comfort oyster" or an "emotional support bear" qualifies as a service animal in California law, because that would expand the protections of ADA. So that would be the law in CA until some court had the good sense to strike it down for being just plain stupid.

That's why it is important to know your own state laws. There is a wide variance, and you could be fine with the Federal ADA but in big trouble with your state law. These things are not hard to learn. There is a wealth of information out there, because every business in the US has to deal with these questions -- including applicable state laws -- every day.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

heyimjason said:


> Gotcha. So if someone says their support animal is an emotional support animal, you can deny them a ride?





drivininsac said:


> That is correct. If it is an emotional support animal you can deny them. If they answer the two questions and the animal is a SERVICE animal you can't deny.


It's kind of a gray area as I understand it, you can deny them the ride, but if they press the issue with Uber/Lyft, you the driver are probably going to loose. Part of it depends on how reasonable the pax is.


----------



## drivininsac (Jan 20, 2017)

Frontier Guy said:


> It's kind of a gray area as I understand it, you can deny them the ride, but if they press the issue with Uber/Lyft, you the driver are probably going to loose. Part of it depends on how reasonable the pax is.


And that's where a dashcam with audio recording comes in. It will record your asking and their response. If they say emotional support animal and it's recorded you have a leg to stand on, otherwise it is your word against the passenger. And we all know how that plays out.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Frontier Guy said:


> It's kind of a gray area as I understand it, you can deny them the ride, but if they press the issue with Uber/Lyft, you the driver are probably going to loose. Part of it depends on how reasonable the pax is.


No...it depends on how reasonable *Uber* is.

Any pax who makes a fuss over this issue -- whether legitimately or not -- is not going to be "reasonable." They will either be legitimately wronged by your handling of the incident, and justifiably upset -- or, they will be pissed because you called them out for being morons. And worse...you were right!

But the pax doesn't matter. You don't work for the pax. If Uber applies the "squeaky wheel" principle, you could be completely blameless and still get deactivated.

That's why is is critical to a) KNOW THE LAW where you live, and b) document situations as well as you can.

A dashcam will be helpful -- provided your conduct is above reproach.

If you don't have one, the best protection you could have is to *immediately* message Uber about an issue with the pax, and spell out your side of the situation. Get your side of the story on the table first.

_If you don't_, you run the risk of a knee-jerk reaction by Uber -- and with something like ADA, with all its implications...sorry, but I don't want to be in your shoes.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

elelegido said:


> YES:
> 
> View attachment 99973
> 
> ...


Not true on the second one, at least not necessarily. The dog could be one that is able to tell when its owner is about to have a seizure or it could be one that is trained to know when its owner is reaching dangerous glucose levels.

Now if they try to say that that second dog was a seeing eye dog specifically, I don't think driving them would be it consideration since I would be dead from laughing so hard.



JimKE said:


> Assuming you're asking about the two questions you can ask: yes, *but...*
> 
> Yes, according to the Federal ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), only those two questions may be asked. As fuzzyelvis correctly pointed out, states can enact more stringent standards, but not more lenient.
> 
> ...


If I pulled up to pick up a passenger, and they had a bear with them, I don't think I would be brave enough to even bother asking the two questions. It would just be, "Is it going to eat me? If not, come on in!"


----------



## Lord of ricks (Oct 11, 2015)

i just accept all dogs. they are usually well behaved and clean. if they arent oh well, its not like the interior of my car is nice anymore after 5000 rides.



heyimjason said:


> Allergies aren't a sufficient reason to deny a service animal? They sure are! If you're severely allergic to an animal, no reasonable person or agency is going to expect you to endanger your health. Hell, the Uber thing already said service animals can be denied for allergies or religious beliefs (which is just silly).
> 
> But no, they didn't get ripped off. They got whatever paperwork in the mail. The HR department had no problem letting the guy bring his dog to work after that. The two people (who lived at different apartment complexes, btw) had no issues from their leasing offices. I'll see if I can find the link to the organization that handles all that stuff. I could have sworn they also provided a bunch of legal info along with the forms.


I went to a seminar held by berkeley law school and they had a guest speaker who was an uber driver allergic to dogs who was deactivated and now drives for lyft.


----------



## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

JimKE said:


> No...it depends on how reasonable *Uber* is.
> 
> Any pax who makes a fuss over this issue -- whether legitimately or not -- is not going to be "reasonable." They will either be legitimately wronged by your handling of the incident, and justifiably upset -- or, they will be pissed because you called them out for being morons. And worse...you were right!
> 
> ...


No, it depends on the pax. If you explain your reasoning to the pax, in a polite, logic manner, and they are accepting of it, then they may not complain to Uber. But if your belligerent, argue with the pax, and try to be judge, jury and executioner yourself, even your dash cam won't help you.

Personally, I think all this is BS, you're signed up to do a job, now you're whining about the job, find another job, it's really quite simple. All these people crying about this shit, I hope you never have an illness or condition which falls under the ADA and have to see things from the other side of the aisle.


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

JimKE said:


> They will either be legitimately wronged by your handling of the incident, and justifiably upset -- or, they will be pissed because you called them out for being morons.





Frontier Guy said:


> No, it depends on the pax. If you explain your reasoning to the pax, in a polite, logic manner, and they are accepting of it, then they may not complain to Uber.


There's a third category and that would be legitimately disabled people trolling for a lawsuit. This happens with disturbing frequency. I had a friend that ran a successful restaurant and lost the entire thing thanks to the bathrooms not being to ADA standards. And it was all done through civil court too. He got a letter from this lawyer that he just threw out because it sounded so outrageous. Then he got another one and it was very confrontational so he figured I'm not going to be strong armed and I'll stand up to whoever this lawyer is but he didn't take it seriously. He ended up getting fined retroactively back to the date of the original letter. I think it was $500/day by that time along with other "damages" and the repairs he was going to have to make to this building he'd bought as is, he ended up filing and shutting down his business. Now he drives a UPS truck.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

SuzeCB said:


> Not true on the second one, at least not necessarily. The dog could be one that is able to tell when its owner is about to have a seizure or it could be one that is trained to know when its owner is reaching dangerous glucose levels.


Dog #2 is clearly an emo/emotional dog. The haircut's the giveaway.


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## Yukon Cornelius (Jan 6, 2017)

steveK2016 said:


> I have still yet to get a service animal, or any animal. However, I drive mostly in the evenings on Fri and Sat so not many people are looking to take their pets with them to dinner or to the bar/club.
> 
> My plan is to ask the two questions they say you can ask:
> *
> ...


The catch is you are not allowed to ask those questions. You cannot ask what the disability is nor even if it is a trained service dog.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Yukon Cornelius said:


> The catch is you are not allowed to ask those questions. You cannot ask what the disability is nor even if it is a trained service dog.


Yes, you can. You can't ask what the disability is. But the two questions that I posted and that others have posted are absolutely the ones that are allowed and are actually spelled out in the law as being allowed. Google it comma you'll learn something.


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## Yukon Cornelius (Jan 6, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> Yes, you can. You can't ask what the disability is. But the two questions that I posted and that others have posted are absolutely the ones that are allowed and are actually spelled out in the law as being allowed. Google it comma you'll learn something.


Good to know! Thanks! We own a beach club and were told not to even ask!


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## sduberdude (Feb 21, 2017)

FL_Dex said:


> I just carry a dog cover for the back seat.


Another reason for my fleather car seat covers for Coverking.


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## HPClays (Jun 27, 2016)

I don't mind transporting dogs at all, but I will submit a cleaning fee and have gotten paid for them. And I will tell the passenger that cleaning fees apply. Most will then cradle the dog in their lap to avoid the fee.


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## quicklyd (Dec 21, 2015)

I find Uber's description of the ADA requirements troubling and incomplete. I sent them a message when I got this notice and advised them that close contact with animal dander causes me to have severe allergic reactions including asthma attacks. In fact, I've had an asthma attack when a passenger had a lot of pet hair on their clothes, I couldn't see it because it was dark, but within a few blocks I was coughing and had to pull over to take my rescue inhaler. I advised Uber that my medical condition (asthma) required an accommodation. I got a form response 'you have to take it ... blah blah ... allergies are not a valid reason ... blah blah." I wrote back and let them know that the actual statute (which I have read, and they obviously have not) states that an allergy can be accommodated by placing the person with the allergy in a separate area, or away from the animal, if possible. I stated again that my ASTHMA needed an accommodation under the ADA and that it should be accommodated by allowing the person with the service animal to use a different Uber. Over a week now and radio silence.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

quicklyd said:


> I find Uber's description of the ADA requirements troubling and incomplete. I sent them a message when I got this notice and advised them that close contact with animal dander causes me to have severe allergic reactions including asthma attacks. In fact, I've had an asthma attack when a passenger had a lot of pet hair on their clothes, I couldn't see it because it was dark, but within a few blocks I was coughing and had to pull over to take my rescue inhaler. I advised Uber that my medical condition (asthma) required an accommodation. I got a form response 'you have to take it ... blah blah ... allergies are not a valid reason ... blah blah." I wrote back and let them know that the actual statute (which I have read, and they obviously have not) states that an allergy can be accommodated by placing the person with the allergy in a separate area, or away from the animal, if possible. I stated again that my ASTHMA needed an accommodation under the ADA and that it should be accommodated by allowing the person with the service animal to use a different Uber. Over a week now and radio silence.


You shouldn't be driving. It's that simple.


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## Tenzo (Jan 25, 2016)

Demon said:


> You shouldn't be driving. It's that simple.


He wont be if he ever gets a service dog.

You HAVE to accept service animals. period. that's it. not open to discussion. Dont care if it literally kills you. What part of "NO" don't you understand.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Tenzo said:


> He wont be if he ever gets a service dog.
> 
> You HAVE to accept service animals. period. that's it. not open to discussion. Dont care if it literally kills you. What part of "NO" don't you understand.


He won't be even if he doesn't get a service animal. It's the dander people are allergic to, the animal doesn't need to be present. As you point out, if driving is that dangerous for someone, they shouldn't be a driver for hire.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Tenzo said:


> He wont be if he ever gets a service dog.
> 
> You HAVE to accept service animals. period. that's it. not open to discussion. Dont care if it literally kills you. What part of "NO" don't you understand.


The thing is, the law actually does accommodate the idea that you have to accept service animals unless they pose a verifiable danger, or can not physically be accommodated. An example of the latter would be trying to fit a miniature horse into an ex vehicle, or trying to get it into an Excel where it may fit but we don't have the ramps for it. If the drivers allergies are severe enough, where are there is a verifiable history of the driver having gone into anaphylactic shock over contact with a dog, then you could probably get around it. After all accommodating the service animal would endanger everyone in the car and in the vicinity on the road.

The problem is that you would have to a notify Uber in advance, and probably make an accommodation along the lines of staying parked next to the person with the service animal until the next Uber came so as to show that you weren't just being discriminatory or Cavalier about the law. You would also have to probably be the one to cancel. The disabled person, should understand that allergies also are a covered disability under the Ada. The accommodation that is supposed to be made is that if I have allergies there should be someone else available to do the job for me. In a restaurant situation this is not a problem, if your server has allergies they just trade tables with another server who does not. Our accommodation would mean switching out for another driver.

I would imagine that this could actually win in court if it came to it if someone tried to sue you, but you would end up spending a fortune on an attorney to make the argument. Since you are an independent contractor you would bear the brunt of that cost, not Uber.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SuzeCB said:


> The thing is, the law actually does accommodate the idea that you have to accept service animals unless they pose a verifiable danger, or can not physically be accommodated. An example of the latter would be trying to fit a miniature horse into an ex vehicle, or trying to get it into an Excel where it may fit but we don't have the ramps for it. If the drivers allergies are severe enough, where are there is a verifiable history of the driver having gone into anaphylactic shock over contact with a dog, then you could probably get around it. After all accommodating the service animal would endanger everyone in the car and in the vicinity on the road.
> 
> The problem is that you would have to a notify Uber in advance, and probably make an accommodation along the lines of staying parked next to the person with the service animal until the next Uber came so as to show that you weren't just being discriminatory or Cavalier about the law. You would also have to probably be the one to cancel. The disabled person, should understand that allergies also are a covered disability under the Ada. The accommodation that is supposed to be made is that if I have allergies there should be someone else available to do the job for me. In a restaurant situation this is not a problem, if your server has allergies they just trade tables with another server who does not. Our accommodation would mean switching out for another driver.
> 
> I would imagine that this could actually win in court if it came to it if someone tried to sue you, but you would end up spending a fortune on an attorney to make the argument. Since you are an independent contractor you would bear the brunt of that cost, not Uber.


I'm no attorney but I'm going to disagree and say the person with allergies is going to lose this case.

1. As you pointed out they probably haven't documented with Uber that they have allergies so severe their life is in danger if they get close to an animal. 
2. They're allergic to the dander. It's very reasonable to assume at some point they will drive a pet owner (sans pet) and that pet owner will inadvertently get pet dander in their vehicle. I don't see any accommodation that can be made for this.


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## quicklyd (Dec 21, 2015)

Demon said:


> You shouldn't be driving. It's that simple.


Thanks for the professional opinion. You shouldn't be interacting with human beings.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

quicklyd said:


> Thanks for the professional opinion. You shouldn't be interacting with human beings.


Sorry you got presented with facts you didn't like and could only resort with name calling.


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## Cary Grant (Jul 14, 2015)

I've asked the two questions mentioned here: https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

The responses fall into two categories: Legit, and hilarious.

Legit, they know the answers, and answer them politely. This happens about once a year.

The rest -- and this is the overwhelming majority in my experience -- are hilarious! _"You can't ask me that!"_ or something worse, proving their criminal intent to malinger. This happens once or several times per month. Lots of women buy these stupid red "service dog" leashes and think that's enough. I show them a one page copy of the state statute they just violated, and without fail, they turn tail. No pun intended.

I've had several pax try to sneak animals in using pet carriers that look like luggage. Those that ask permission, I transport. Those that sneak? Get the boot, or the 1-star, with a write up.

The best way to deal with animals is to not stop when you roll up and see your pax with an animal. Just keep driving, cancel the trip, turn the app off, and go take a 5-minute break. If Uber or anyone else asks, you have a sudden bout of diarrhea and could not drive until you sprayed. When nature calls, you must obey.


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## quicklyd (Dec 21, 2015)

Demon said:


> Sorry you got presented with facts you didn't like and could only resort with name calling.


I wasn't presented with facts, I was presented with your opinion. Opinions are not facts. Fact: I have asthma. It is measurable, verifiable, accurate, and fact-based. Opinion: your assessment that my asthma indicates I shouldn't drive. Not measurable, verifiable, accurate, or in any way fact-based.

Also, no names were called. I countered your opinion about me with my opinion about you. Apparently you can dish it, but not take it.

Have a 5 star day.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Beur said:


> You can ask two questions:
> 
> 1. Is the animal a service dog
> 2. What has it been trained to do (it must be a specific task)


Correct which means that you therefore can't:


> ask if the animal is a comfort or emotional support animal


This probably doesn't matter in practice, though. All emo dog owners readily say what it is - they're all convinced that we have to take their pet.


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## Jo3030 (Jan 2, 2016)

So have passengers found the automatic way to get back at drivers?
Just accuse you that you didn't want to take their service animal and there goes the driver's account?
Seems fair.


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## Ubercycle (Dec 22, 2016)

Shangsta said:


> True and the obvious answer to any accusation is dash cam but drivers who do refuse service animals aren't going to get much help from a dash cam


Hello Guys
Uber is trying to convince riders and drivers that it's POLICIES are 100% in accord with local and federal laws, but the fact is ALL Uber policies need to be reviewed.
As an independent contractor I have the right to discuss the gain and loss before taking any job, do we really have that right with Uber?
How many times you drove 2 mils or more for 0.5 mls trip?
Cancellation fee is $5 ( $10 in NY) no matter if you spent 5 minutes or 50 minutes to get to the rider, is this fair?

I use to drive away from the rider before picking him/them up.
and I always have my excuses, a lady with 2 Top filled shopping carts, Loading unloading....... for $3.37? noway.
Lady with infants, no car seat, it's illegal to have an infant on the board without car seat.......I'm not required to provide car seats, diapers.....

But Recently, I got punished by Uber, they put my account on hold, because a "rider" report an accident when he/she exciting my car, The funny thing is this rider didn't show up, after a couple of minutes he/she cancelled the request, and Uber charged him/her $5. even thought he/she was able to report a false accident.
Uber has all info, they know I didn't pick this rider up, and he/she cancelled the request......... but, as they said this is Uber policy: rider report received>>> forwarded it to the appropriate department ( insurance in my case)>>> they send you incident form to fill it out with details, if you refuse to do so, because you have not been involved in any accident, your account will remain on hold.

IS THIS FAIR?????

I learned how easy is to put an Uber driver account on hold.

Dash cam or not, that's not the question, Dash cam is there to Use it as an evidence when reporting something, but when someone report you, Uber need to notify you about the report, and investigate the *report* not the incident, you're not required to prove your innocence.
what if you're innocent but for some reason your dash cam data has been wiped, does that make you guilty?


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Jo3030 said:


> So have passengers found the automatic way to get back at drivers?
> Just accuse you that you didn't want to take their service animal and there goes the driver's account?
> Seems fair.


I believe their policy says if you have TWO complaints, you are done permanently. I think they will investigate one, but if you get a second, that's it.

If the first allegation reveals that they think you were naughty, you're done.

I'd like to think that if you were _innocent_ of the first allegation they would not count that...but then, I'd like a lot of things. My guess is that two complaints, whether substantiated or not, would be permanent deactivation.



Cary Grant said:


> The best way to deal with animals is to not stop when you roll up and see your pax with an animal. Just keep driving, cancel the trip, turn the app off, and go take a 5-minute break. If Uber or anyone else asks, you have a sudden bout of diarrhea and could not drive until you sprayed. When nature calls, you must obey.


For those of you who don't want to comply with the US law that has been in effect *since 1990* (!), this is really the best strategy.

*Just drive on by* and avoid a situation where a) you are sure to lose, and b) will most likely get permanently deactivated with no appeal.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

quicklyd said:


> I find Uber's description of the ADA requirements troubling and incomplete. I sent them a message when I got this notice and advised them that close contact with animal dander causes me to have severe allergic reactions including asthma attacks. In fact, I've had an asthma attack when a passenger had a lot of pet hair on their clothes, I couldn't see it because it was dark, but within a few blocks I was coughing and had to pull over to take my rescue inhaler. I advised Uber that my medical condition (asthma) required an accommodation. I got a form response 'you have to take it ... blah blah ... allergies are not a valid reason ... blah blah." I wrote back and let them know that the actual statute (which I have read, and they obviously have not) states that an allergy can be accommodated by placing the person with the allergy in a separate area, or away from the animal, if possible. I stated again that my ASTHMA needed an accommodation under the ADA and that it should be accommodated by allowing the person with the service animal to use a different Uber. Over a week now and radio silence.


This is not an Uber policy, Allergies is not a valid reason to deny access or refuse service. Direct from the ADA website.

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm



> Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.


If you want your Asthma to be exempt of the ADA law, you need to petition congress for the law to be changed. Uber cannot change that policy.


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## Sueron (Sep 16, 2016)

Twice I have transported animals, one was a service animal, the second wasn't. I have a blanket (in my trunk) like cover for my back, cloth seat. On both occasions the animals were well behaved. So much that I didn't even notice them in the back seat.

Here in Alabama the law states:
*§ 21-7-4. Right of person with a disability to be accompanied by service animal.*
(a) For the purposes of this section, the term service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability.
(b) Every person with a disability, including a person who is totally or partially blind, hearing-impaired, or diagnosed on the autism spectrum shall have the right to be accompanied by a service animal in any public place, including a public or private school, and any of the places listed in Section 21-7-3. The person may not be required to pay an extra charge for the service animal.
(c) The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the handler's disability.
(d) A person training a service animal shall be entitled to the same privileges granted to a person with a disability pursuant to subsection (b).
(e) In the case of a disabled child, including a child diagnosed on the autism spectrum, any aide assigned to assist the child shall be trained with the service animal in basic commands in order to assist the child as a team.
(f) This section does not relieve a person accompanied by a service animal from liability for any damages done to the premises or facilities by the service animal.
KEY WORDS from (a) .... any dog that is individually trained to DO WORK OR PERFORM TASKS for the benefit of an individual with a disability.

"My guess is that two complaints, whether substantiated or not, would be permanent deactivation". by JimKE

*Correct, as I was permanently deactivated! Complaint with low rating, caused being deactivated. There is NO way to keep high ratings when pax gives out a 4 or lower rating. 5+5+5+5+5+4+4+1 = 4.25 = GONE!*


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Shit like this is why the airport cue is 300 deep.


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## RaleighUber (Dec 4, 2016)

Elmo Burrito said:


> Take note of the key words "there are many kinds of service animals"
> It leaves it W I D E O P E N as to what the definition of a "Service Animal" is.


ADA defines service animals as 1) dogs 2) miniature horses. Unless your state expands that definition, they are not a service animal.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> This is not an Uber policy, Allergies is not a valid reason to deny access or refuse service. Direct from the ADA website.
> 
> https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
> 
> If you want your Asthma to be exempt of the ADA law, you need to petition congress for the law to be changed. Uber cannot change that policy.


Keep some dust mask respirators in glove compartment.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Give service animals a ride or quit.


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## RaleighUber (Dec 4, 2016)

Tedgey said:


> There's a third category and that would be legitimately disabled people trolling for a lawsuit. This happens with disturbing frequency. I had a friend that ran a successful restaurant and lost the entire thing thanks to the bathrooms not being to ADA standards.


Having built and/or remodeled numerous buildings, ADA compliance is a very standard thing one checks religiously. Inspectors check this before you get an occupancy permit, permit for assembly (schools, restaurants, clubs, auditoriums, concert halls, etc) use. Often ADA compliance is a condition for getting a license to serve food. While tragic for your friend, this is clear negligence on their part and/or contractors.


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

RaleighUber said:


> Having built and/or remodeled numerous buildings, ADA compliance is a very standard thing one checks religiously. Inspectors check this before you get an occupancy permit, permit for assembly (schools, restaurants, clubs, auditoriums, concert halls, etc) use. Often ADA compliance is a condition for getting a license to serve food. While tragic for your friend, this is clear negligence on their part and/or contractors.


It was probably in the mid 90s when it happened but I get what your saying. Is ADA building compliance then considered part of the building code?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Tedgey said:


> It was probably in the mid 90s when it happened but I get what your saying. Is ADA building compliance then considered part of the building code?


Absolutely. There are also predatory attorneys who will get someone who is disabled to file a complaint if you're not 100% in compliance. Here is a common one that a lot of places have made mistakes on and some attorneys are getting absolutely rich on. Did you ever see the handicap spots with the blue lined area next to them? That area is supposed to be 5 feet wide. Nine times out of ten, what I see, is it about 4, and not the full 5. That can run the property owner hundreds of thousands of dollars between the civil lawsuit and the government fines. These lawyers put people out of business every single day, and they run the insurance rates up for the businesses that continue to exist period but is it really the attorneys doing it, or is it the business owners who are not in compliance with a law that is over 20 years old? There was plenty of time to comply.


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## Tedgey (Jan 29, 2016)

SuzeCB said:


> Absolutely. There are also predatory attorneys who will get someone who is disabled to file a complaint if you're not 100% in compliance. Here is a common one that a lot of places have made mistakes on and some attorneys are getting absolutely rich on. Did you ever see the handicap spots with the blue lined area next to them? That area is supposed to be 5 feet wide. Nine times out of ten, what I see, is it about 4, and not the full 5. That can run the property owner hundreds of thousands of dollars between the civil lawsuit and the government fines. These lawyers put people out of business every single day, and they run the insurance rates up for the businesses that continue to exist period but is it really the attorneys doing it, or is it the business owners who are not in compliance with a law that is over 20 years old? There was plenty of time to comply.


In my friend's case the issue had something to do with the restroom. The way he found out about it was through a letter sent by a private attorney making a demand and threatening him with a daily penalty if he didn't comply. He asked around and nobody had heard a complaint, nor could anybody remember anyone with a disability that had been there so he just threw it out. Turns out to have been the wrong thing to do


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Tedgey said:


> In my friend's case the issue had something to do with the restroom. The way he found out about it was through a letter sent by a private attorney making a demand and threatening him with a daily penalty if he didn't comply. He asked around and nobody had heard a complaint, nor could anybody remember anyone with a disability that had been there so he just threw it out. Turns out to have been the wrong thing to do


Anyone can bring the charge.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

quicklyd said:


> I wasn't presented with facts, I was presented with your opinion. Opinions are not facts. Fact: I have asthma. It is measurable, verifiable, accurate, and fact-based. Opinion: your assessment that my asthma indicates I shouldn't drive. Not measurable, verifiable, accurate, or in any way fact-based.
> 
> Also, no names were called. I countered your opinion about me with my opinion about you. Apparently you can dish it, but not take it.
> 
> Have a 5 star day.





Demon said:


> I'm no attorney but I'm going to disagree and say the person with allergies is going to lose this case.
> 
> 1. As you pointed out they probably haven't documented with Uber that they have allergies so severe their life is in danger if they get close to an animal.
> 2. They're allergic to the dander. It's very reasonable to assume at some point they will drive a pet owner (sans pet) and that pet owner will inadvertently get pet dander in their vehicle. I don't see any accommodation that can be made for this.


Here are the facts you got that you didn't like. Any person can have animal dander on them and you won't know until after you've started the ride. There's no separate area for you to go to.


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## Novus Caesar (Dec 15, 2015)

I was reading the ADA and it seems to say people with allergies ARE protected. It would be UBER who must accommodate both. 

Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.
My interpretation of this is that Uber cannot deny service, but must find a different driver so both are protected--the driver and the passenger.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Novus Caesar said:


> I was reading the ADA and it seems to say people with allergies ARE protected. It would be UBER who must accommodate both.
> 
> Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility.
> My interpretation of this is that Uber cannot deny service, but must find a different driver so both are protected--the driver and the passenger.


The first line of that said plainly outright that allergies is not an acceptable reason to refuse service. Your interpretation is wrong. In the confines of your establishment, you can have the allergic individual be as far away from the animal as possible. It is not the disabled persons issue that driving a vehicle for hire has limited space to make such accomedations.

Its quiet simple, if you drive pax for hire, you accept service animals. If you are inable to, you are unfit to peform your duties as a driver. Other employment or better medication is in your future.


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## Novus Caesar (Dec 15, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> The first line of that said plainly outright that allergies is not an acceptable reason to refuse service. Your interpretation is wrong. In the confines of your establishment, you can have the allergic individual be as far away from the animal as possible. It is not the disabled persons issue that driving a vehicle for hire has limited space to make such accomedations.
> 
> Its quiet simple, if you drive pax for hire, you accept service animals. If you are inable to, you are unfit to peform your duties as a driver. Other employment or better medication is in your future.


Not sure. It could be argued that the Uber establishment would be all 100 cars on duty, for example. "When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, *they both should be accommodated* by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility."


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Novus Caesar said:


> Not sure. It could be argued that the Uber establishment would be all 100 cars on duty, for example. "When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, *they both should be accommodated* by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility."


I promise you its been argued and lost by cab drivers.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

VWdenver said:


> "Sorry in deftly allergic to dogs and having one in the vehicle would create an extremely unsafe situation for all of us."


Final last words before deactivation.

Remember, you are an IC. You are a separate business entity to your other Uber drivers. Once you accept a fare, that fare is yours. Accomedations to move rooms is based on the facility of whomever is servicing the disabled individual. Thats you and your car. You can separate yourself as much as you can between the front and rear seats, but that provision does not imply that uber must find another car to accommodate a service animal.

The point of the ADA is so disabled individuals can receive the same, expedient services as non-disabled no service dog individuals have. If we could keep passing the buck to the next uber driver, and if allergies can be ruled as an exemption, what if every uber driver down the list continue to reject based on allegies? Now the pax with service animal is waiting an hour for a ride while others without the service animal gets picked up in 5 min. That is exactly what the law was created to prevent, which is why it is so strict.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

I think some of us are hyperventilating over nothing. We, and Uber, are required to comply with both local and Federal law. But there are a number of easy ways to avoid this issue:

If you see an animal, just drive on by and cancel with no charge to the pax. Done -- no ride, no complaint, no ratings issue.
Or...ask the two permitted questions and if the animal does not appear to meet legitimate service dog criteria, tell the owner you are not transporting the dog. (*But note:* You must know your *local* laws to do this. Some jurisdictions have much more stringent laws than the Federal ADA)
IF the animal is a legit service animal, simply tell the owner that you are allergic and cannot transport the animal without health risk to yourself. Legitimate service animal owners will understand that completely. Cancel the ride -- no charge to rider -- turn your app off for a few seconds, and have them order a new Uber.
This is not rocket science, folks.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

JimKE said:


> I think some of us are hyperventilating over nothing. We, and Uber, are required to comply with both local and Federal law. But there are a number of easy ways to avoid this issue:
> 
> If you see an animal, just drive on by and cancel with no charge to the pax. Done -- no ride, no complaint, no ratings issue.
> Or...ask the two permitted questions and if the animal does not appear to meet legitimate service dog criteria, tell the owner you are not transporting the dog. (*But note:* You must know your *local* laws to do this. Some jurisdictions have much more stringent laws than the Federal ADA)
> ...


Two of those things are super illegal and the third may not be legal.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

JimKE said:


> I think some of us are hyperventilating over nothing. We, and Uber, are required to comply with both local and Federal law. But there are a number of easy ways to avoid this issue:
> 
> If you see an animal, just drive on by and cancel with no charge to the pax. Done -- no ride, no complaint, no ratings issue.
> Or...ask the two permitted questions and if the animal does not appear to meet legitimate service dog criteria, tell the owner you are not transporting the dog. (*But note:* You must know your *local* laws to do this. Some jurisdictions have much more stringent laws than the Federal ADA)
> ...


I read, at one point (not sure if it's still there), that passengers travelling with animals are supposed to call or text their driver as soon as the driver is assigned, to let them know. When it comes to pets Uber flat-out tells the passenger that not all drivers will allow it. It does not say however that people with service animals should not call the driver period they should. When they call, the issue of allergies or asthma can be addressed at that point with a simple, "If this is a service animal, of course I will do my best to accommodate you and your Aid, however I do have allergies that I have reported to Uber, and this may make for an unsafe situation for us. Would it be possible for you to cancel your ride before you would get charged, and request a different car?"

The trick here is to make sure that you have reported to Uber, in writing, about your allergies, and have provided whatever medical proof you have that this would actually create a dangerous situation for yourself, your passenger, and anyone else in the vicinity. Runny nose isn't going to cut it. Watery eyes should, but probably wouldn't. A medical report of a history of anaphylactic shock should do it.

If they can provide information about veterans so that passengers can see that the driver that has accepted their request is a veteran or a family member of a veteran, they can certainly put in information about allergies. Similarly, if they allow, but not require, of course, passengers to supply information about having service animals, they could tweak the algorithm so as to not match up someone with a service animal with someone who is allergic to animals.


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## uBerGirlMD (Feb 14, 2017)

I had a rider with a service animal recently. They even called ahead and let me know and I decided to be nice and not cancel. Well, I wasn't happy that the animal was shedding and lots have hair was left on floor mats!


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

uBerGirlMD said:


> I had a rider with a service animal recently. They even called ahead and let me know and I decided to be nice and not cancel. Well, I wasn't happy that the animal was shedding and lots have hair was left on floor mats!


You mean you decided to comply with the law and not risk deactivation, and financial repercussions that could follow you for the rest of your life.

Did you take a picture of all of the hair all over the seats and carpet, and make a complaint about the odor to Uber immediately to get cleaning fee?

Just as a way of help, I own a Maine **** mix cat, a Ragdoll cat, and a Pomeranian. Lots and lots of long pet hair. I find that the latex gloves like they use in doctors offices work really well for wiping hair off of fabric and carpeting. It tends to stick to the gloves a little better than most lint brushes. You can follow up after that with one of the adhesive lint rollers to get most of the dander. Ikea rollers and their refills are the cheapest that I found to date.


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## Elmo Burrito (Feb 3, 2017)

​


SuzeCB said:


> If a passenger tries to say you refused a service animal, they would have to prove that they had a service animal. Other than that the history of the request for the ride, the acceptance of the ride by you, and the GPS showing that you showed up at the pickup point and did not continue the ride for some reason, would all have to be prove it. If you challenged the pax's accusation Uber would have to go over all of those things to verify. If they just didn't want to be bothered doing it, which is always a distinct possibility, you would have the ability of course to hire an attorney and go after the packs for making the false accusation in the first place. The packs could also get in trouble with the government as it is against the law to claim that you have a service animal when you do not.
> 
> Are you really that naive that you think Ubers will defend any rights you think you have? Ha ha thats so funny! As soon as they get wind of you turning down a ride because of what one of their pax said was a service animal they will deeeeactivate you in a New York minute just to avoid any bad press!


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

SuzeCB said:


> I read, at one point (not sure if it's still there), that passengers travelling with animals are supposed to call or text their driver as soon as the driver is assigned, to let them know. When it comes to pets Uber flat-out tells the passenger that not all drivers will allow it. It does not say however that people with service animals should not call the driver period they should. When they call, the issue of allergies or asthma can be addressed at that point with a simple, "If this is a service animal, of course I will do my best to accommodate you and your Aid, however I do have allergies that I have reported to Uber, and this may make for an unsafe situation for us. Would it be possible for you to cancel your ride before you would get charged, and request a different car?"
> 
> The trick here is to make sure that you have reported to Uber, in writing, about your allergies, and have provided whatever medical proof you have that this would actually create a dangerous situation for yourself, your passenger, and anyone else in the vicinity. Runny nose isn't going to cut it. Watery eyes should, but probably wouldn't. A medical report of a history of anaphylactic shock should do it.
> 
> If they can provide information about veterans so that passengers can see that the driver that has accepted their request is a veteran or a family member of a veteran, they can certainly put in information about allergies. Similarly, if they allow, but not require, of course, passengers to supply information about having service animals, they could tweak the algorithm so as to not match up someone with a service animal with someone who is allergic to animals.


Most if not all of what you're suggesting is illegal. It's been stated several times on the board a person saying they have allergies just doesn't hold legal weight. If someone is THAT allergic to animal dander it isn't safe for them to be driving at all as it is very reasonable to assume that at some point they will have a pax covered in animal dander.

It's illegal for disabled passengers to have to do anything that a non-disabled person wouldn't have to do. So someone with a service animal does not have to let a driver know ahead of time.



SuzeCB said:


> You mean you decided to comply with the law and not risk deactivation, and financial repercussions that could follow you for the rest of your life.
> 
> Did you take a picture of all of the hair all over the seats and carpet, and make a complaint about the odor to Uber immediately to get cleaning fee?
> 
> Just as a way of help, I own a Maine **** mix cat, a Ragdoll cat, and a Pomeranian. Lots and lots of long pet hair. I find that the latex gloves like they use in doctors offices work really well for wiping hair off of fabric and carpeting. It tends to stick to the gloves a little better than most lint brushes. You can follow up after that with one of the adhesive lint rollers to get most of the dander. Ikea rollers and their refills are the cheapest that I found to date.


Drivers won't get a cleaning fee for shedding hair or odor.


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## UofMDriver (Dec 29, 2015)

Do they carry paperwork verifying Lassie is a service dog?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

UofMDriver said:


> Do they carry paperwork verifying Lassie is a service dog?


They don't need to and it's an unreasonable expectation.


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

Is it that hard to require all legitimate service animals to have a holographic ID card that's hard to fake. And if a dog is wearing it, businesses can allow the dog without having to ask questions. That would reduce denials of real service dogs and reduce the fakers. 
A service dog is needed to keep its owner alive and healthy. It's not needed to simply keep its owner happy like an emotional support dog.


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## zerostars (Nov 24, 2016)

Bottom line is this 

You get a ride request with a passenger with a dog 

You ask them - is this a service animal ? If they say yes you HAVE to take the dog or you will get deactivated 

If they say no cancel the ride and move on 

BUT - I have one rider then contact uber and claim I denied them a ride with a service animal never the less - liars 

Dogs are a serious problem 

Thank God I do not see many dogs that often 

Best policy if you want to remain active is to just keep a blanket in your trunk and take any dog period


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## RaleighUber (Dec 4, 2016)

Tedgey said:


> It was probably in the mid 90s when it happened but I get what your saying. Is ADA building compliance then considered part of the building code?


Yes. Local code requires compliance with federal ADA law. Building inspectors check for compliance with ADA (handicap accessible stalls, width of doors to bathrooms, handicap accessible sinks, ramps, etc. No compliance no occupancy permit, no open for business.



JimKE said:


> IF the animal is a legit service animal, simply tell the owner that you are allergic and cannot transport the animal without health risk to yourself. Legitimate service animal owners will understand that completely. Cancel the ride -- no charge to rider -- turn your app off for a few seconds, and have them order a new Uber.
> This is not rocket science, folks.


Your scenario above is a violation of federal law, and if reported, would be grounds for deactivation AND subject to federal penalties. While your scenario seems reasonable, the law makes no accommodation for allergy, thus it is not a legit reason to deny service to a disabled person, and you could be in serious trouble if reported. All it takes is one person with a legit service animal who feels you violated their rights.

You are right. It's not rocket science. If you fail to comply with ADA, you could be in serious trouble.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Not federal

State

CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE 365.7(A) --- Service Dog Fraud --- MISDEMEANOR



steveK2016 said:


> I have still yet to get a service animal, or any animal. However, I drive mostly in the evenings on Fri and Sat so not many people are looking to take their pets with them to dinner or to the bar/club.
> 
> My plan is to ask the two questions they say you can ask:
> *
> ...


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

nickd8775 said:


> Is it that hard to require all legitimate service animals to have a holographic ID card that's hard to fake. And if a dog is wearing it, businesses can allow the dog without having to ask questions. That would reduce denials of real service dogs and reduce the fakers.
> A service dog is needed to keep its owner alive and healthy. It's not needed to simply keep its owner happy like an emotional support dog.


Yes, it is. It would also be illegal. 
The easiest thing to do is treat the disabled person like any other pax.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

nickd8775 said:


> Is it that hard to require all legitimate service animals to have a holographic ID card that's hard to fake. And if a dog is wearing it, businesses can allow the dog without having to ask questions. That would reduce denials of real service dogs and reduce the fakers.
> A service dog is needed to keep its owner alive and healthy. It's not needed to simply keep its owner happy like an emotional support dog.


Hmmm... and maybe we should also require armbands or something along those lines for the disabled people that require these animals?

In case you don't know me by now, that was dripping with sarcasm.


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## Coffeekeepsmedriving (Oct 2, 2015)

Shangsta said:


> According to my GLH, plenty of drivers thinking they can refuse service to pax with a service animal. Now if a pax reports refusal driver is auto deactivated
> 
> View attachment 99674
> 
> ...


Same for you too



Shangsta said:


> According to my GLH, plenty of drivers thinking they can refuse service to pax with a service animal. Now if a pax reports refusal driver is auto deactivated
> 
> View attachment 99674
> 
> ...


I took an elephant in my car last week...Why not a dog

Just start crying and carrying on about your life sucks



Shangsta said:


> True and the obvious answer to any accusation is dash cam but drivers who do refuse service animals aren't going to get much help from a dash cam


I want to ride in the front seat, while my master sits in back please.











steveK2016 said:


> Final last words before deactivation.
> 
> Remember, you are an IC. You are a separate business entity to your other Uber drivers. Once you accept a fare, that fare is yours. Accomedations to move rooms is based on the facility of whomever is servicing the disabled individual. Thats you and your car. You can separate yourself as much as you can between the front and rear seats, but that provision does not imply that uber must find another car to accommodate a service animal.
> 
> The point of the ADA is so disabled individuals can receive the same, expedient services as non-disabled no service dog individuals have. If we could keep passing the buck to the next uber driver, and if allergies can be ruled as an exemption, what if every uber driver down the list continue to reject based on allegies? Now the pax with service animal is waiting an hour for a ride while others without the service animal gets picked up in 5 min. That is exactly what the law was created to prevent, which is why it is so strict.














SuzeCB said:


> You mean you decided to comply with the law and not risk deactivation, and financial repercussions that could follow you for the rest of your life.
> 
> Did you take a picture of all of the hair all over the seats and carpet, and make a complaint about the odor to Uber immediately to get cleaning fee?
> 
> Just as a way of help, I own a Maine **** mix cat, a Ragdoll cat, and a Pomeranian. Lots and lots of long pet hair. I find that the latex gloves like they use in doctors offices work really well for wiping hair off of fabric and carpeting. It tends to stick to the gloves a little better than most lint brushes. You can follow up after that with one of the adhesive lint rollers to get most of the dander. Ikea rollers and their refills are the cheapest that I found to date.


Will this be on my Permanent record??


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

Ms Stein Fanboy said:


> Can you sue them for lost wages due to their dishonesty, with a gig like this? I've yet to have a serious lie against me in 3 years. I don't think most pax would even think of this lie anyways. There's the more common lies like bad route, or whatever. Pretty easy to prove someone doesn't really have a service dog, IF you can even arrange to prove it that is.


Sorry to inform you of this fact, since most of you never open the client App and request a trip you have no idea what clients see when the trip is over,

When a client rates you and they select anything less than five stars Uber ask the following question "what went wrong"

They are given about a half-dozen predefined selections as for what went wrong,
If client doesn't like the predefined selections as shown,

They can select other,
Among the selections under other is service animal issue,
So client doesn't have to think of a service animal issue,

Service animal issue is already one of the predefined answers.

Thanks uber, thanks for watching clients back and throw us under the bus when needed,

As I've said on numerous ever trends clients are not ours they belong to Uber..


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## diehard88 (Dec 2, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> I have still yet to get a service animal, or any animal. However, I drive mostly in the evenings on Fri and Sat so not many people are looking to take their pets with them to dinner or to the bar/club.
> 
> My plan is to ask the two questions they say you can ask:
> *
> ...


Buddy, where is the dashcam?
I see no mention of it.

other than that, I endorse the above.


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## tdoes (Dec 27, 2015)

I've had service dogs in my vehicle on a few occasions. The only negative out of this was that I had to go offline after those trips to vacuum any hair in the vehicle to make sure I wouldn't have to deal with ill affects of picking up a rider with a dog allergy.


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## diehard88 (Dec 2, 2016)

Coffeekeepsmedriving said:


> I want to ride in the front seat, while my master sits in back please.


LOL!!!









*what you looking at?

.*


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## mkxr (Jul 1, 2016)

you are completely entitled to a cleaning fee of the service animal makes a mess. seats should not be an issue, just because the animal can't be refused, it's not entitled to be running on seats. in fact, just like an unbuckled passenger, having an animal unbuckled on the seat is dangerous during a possible accident or even hard braking. 
the only animals I would allow are in pet carriers, or sitting on the floor mats. no animals on seats.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

mkxr said:


> you are completely entitled to a cleaning fee of the service animal makes a mess. seats should not be an issue, just because the animal can't be refused, it's not entitled to be running on seats. in fact, just like an unbuckled passenger, having an animal unbuckled on the seat is dangerous during a possible accident or even hard braking.
> the only animals I would allow are in pet carriers, or sitting on the floor mats. no animals on seats.


A trained service animal will not be sitting on your seats. It will lay down on the floor. It's been trained to do that. Now if you are in California, or another state that allows for the idea of emotional support animals, that's a different story. That's just somebody who maybe has an issue with anxiety or depression and loves their pet very much and find comfort and having a pet with them. Those animals may actually not be trained to do anything specific. Check your state laws.


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## UberDriverAU (Nov 4, 2015)

Here in Australia we can refuse "assistance animals" if the rider can't provide evidence that the animal is an "assistance animal" or "trained to meet standards of hygiene and behaviour that are appropriate for an animal in a public place". I presume that would necessitate the carrying of some sort of government documentation.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

UberDriverAU said:


> Here in Australia we can refuse "assistance animals" if the rider can't provide evidence that the animal is an "assistance animal" or "trained to meet standards of hygiene and behaviour that are appropriate for an animal in a public place". I presume that would necessitate the carrying of some sort of government documentation.


So no licking his privates or humping the other pool rider's leg?


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## CatchyMusicLover (Sep 18, 2015)

Actually that brings up an interesting question, and one I'm surprised hasn't come up here...

What if the person with the service animal is a pool rider and first PAX claims to be allergic, or other similar scenarios?


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## Duro (Dec 22, 2016)

I say zip it and just take the dad gummed animal.....we have bigger fish to fry here like no tipping on the app, disrespectful riders, and illiterate customer support reps.....


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

CatchyMusicLover said:


> Actually that brings up an interesting question, and one I'm surprised hasn't come up here...
> 
> What if the person with the service animal is a pool rider and first PAX claims to be allergic, or other similar scenarios?


People who have allergic reactions to anything really don't have any right to complain if they use pool. They are made fully aware that they will be in close quarters with strangers. For that matter many people who own pets often have traces of their pet's fur on their clothing anyways. I have often had to use my sticky roller on my back seats to remove both cat and dog fur from my seats. No cat has ever been in my vehicle.


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## theclowns (Jan 9, 2016)

Well if one gets deactivated for not taking a pax with a service animal it will be about time. Not sure if Uber is actually doing this yet though they should have been doing it for years. I do know there have been many law suits against Uber for denial of rides due to this just with in the blind community. The NFB (National Federation of the Blind) is not a group you want to go up against. They have a plethora of lawyers and some are with in the blind community. The blind community is sick and tired of trying to get to work or where ever and being denied rides because of their service animal. The most common excuse from drivers is "allergies". Now I know some of you have a legit allergy to dogs but unfortunately that excuse has been used too often by drivers who just didn't want to deal with a dog. But that is neither here nor there as it is not a legal excuse to use as previously mentioned so many times in this forum. So far drivers have been lucky that the NFB has just been going after Uber and not the individual drivers. I think that is what the NFB should actually start doing as drivers will continue to deny and state they are IC and don't have to do anything they don't want to do. That is just not going to fly in a law suit.

I have been around many guide dogs with in the blind community and have never had any problems with any of the dogs. The ones I have been around are all sweethearts, especially when they are out of "working" mode and I get to play with them. They are all trained to to sit under chairs, tables where ever their person is going. So when they get in a car it is automatic for them to get on the floor in the back. Easiest thing to do would be have a good sized blanket in the trunk and just throw it on the floor up over the seat to catch dog hair. Yep dog hair is a pain in the a**, have had to vacuum it up myself.

Think some drivers need to try to see a different view on how about if it were you? How would you like to be trying to get to work or an appointment and wait for your ride. Finally when the ride gets there it has been canceled. You then call another ride go through the same thing wait.. cancel. Call another ride.. wait... cancel. Now you have to call work because trying to be early or even on time now has you getting there late. After about 4 or 5 times maybe you finally get a driver who is willing to let you in the car with your guide dog so you can get where you need to. You haven't done anything that anyone else wouldn't have done. You just happen to have a guide to get you safely where you need to go today because you can't SEE and your guide helps you live an independent life like every one else. But because of the sweetest guide trying to help you, you continually get discriminated against. The NFB is huge about being able to live an independent life just like everyone else does and if you impede against them being able to do that, they come after you. And they are sick and tired of being discriminated against.

Went to the NFB national convention in Orlando 2 years ago with my boyfriend and someone actually brought their mini horse. Everyone was very shocked that it was there as it is usually just overwhelmed with guide dogs. Since the convention is made up of each state's NFB chapters everyone wanted to know which state it was from and how they got it there. They were all laughing and making jokes wanting to know if they took it on a plane like they do their guide dog's. And of course they had lots of jokes about cleaning up after it. And speaking of Orlando I personally know the man in the Uber driver "allergy" incident that happened last July. They had already gone through the order... wait... cancel mode several times. Will be going there this year so any drivers in Orlando if you don't want to hassle the ADA the week of July 10th then just avoid the hotels that you see people walking around with those white/red canes because there are a couple thousand so that means a hundred or more dogs. Who knows maybe the mini horse will be there again... anyone with a van?

Hey I get allergies but, at least for most people you can take something to help keep them away. Unfortunately, the pax can't do anything about not being able to see, how they move, or what ever their disability might be. Shoot I have to deal with my chemical sensitivity every day because of all the chemicals and fragrance in everything. Can't be near any female wearing rose smelling perfume, please don't get near me wearing Gain detergent, I can smell your Patchouli across a room with 500 people blah. To have to be in a small car with someone like this instantly gives me a migraine for days and in some cases I want to puke. Nothing I can do about it, nothing I can take to prevent a reaction.

Pax with a guide dog? Either take the ride just like any other ride or take the chance on the law suit.


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## mkxr (Jul 1, 2016)

theclowns said:


> Well if one gets deactivated for not taking a pax with a service animal it will be about time. Not sure if Uber is actually doing this yet though they should have been doing it for years. I do know there have been many law suits against Uber for denial of rides due to this just with in the blind community. The NFB (National Federation of the Blind) is not a group you want to go up against. They have a plethora of lawyers and some are with in the blind community. The blind community is sick and tired of trying to get to work or where ever and being denied rides because of their service animal. The most common excuse from drivers is "allergies". Now I know some of you have a legit allergy to dogs but unfortunately that excuse has been used too often by drivers who just didn't want to deal with a dog. But that is neither here nor there as it is not a legal excuse to use as previously mentioned so many times in this forum. So far drivers have been lucky that the NFB has just been going after Uber and not the individual drivers. I think that is what the NFB should actually start doing as drivers will continue to deny and state they are IC and don't have to do anything they don't want to do. That is just not going to fly in a law suit.
> 
> I have been around many guide dogs with in the blind community and have never had any problems with any of the dogs. The ones I have been around are all sweethearts, especially when they are out of "working" mode and I get to play with them. They are all trained to to sit under chairs, tables where ever their person is going. So when they get in a car it is automatic for them to get on the floor in the back. Easiest thing to do would be have a good sized blanket in the trunk and just throw it on the floor up over the seat to catch dog hair. Yep dog hair is a pain in the a**, have had to vacuum it up myself.
> 
> ...


if the driver refuses a legitimate service animal, then you're correct, they should be reprimanded for it. I've taken several, even pets in carriers. for the most part I don't mind, they are clean and mostly in carriers. I've had some pax smelling worse than any animal could. 
I think a lot of people have issues with the service animal laws being abused but people who just want their pets to go along for free rides.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

From last Oct to now I have had only one 4 legged animal in my car and that was in a large pet carrier, wrapped in a blanket and carried by 3 giggling co-eds. I didn't ask!

theclowns said:
"Hey I get allergies but, at least for most people you can take something to help keep them away. Unfortunately, the pax can't do anything about not being able to see, how they move, or what ever their disability might be. Shoot I have to deal with my chemical sensitivity every day because of all the chemicals and fragrance in everything. Can't be near any female wearing rose smelling perfume, please don't get near me wearing Gain detergent, I can smell your Patchouli across a room with 500 people blah. To have to be in a small car with someone like this instantly gives me a migraine for days and in some cases I want to puke. Nothing I can do about it, nothing I can take to prevent a reaction."

I'm like you in that respect.... I use TIDE "fragrance free" when I launder my clothes and don't care for the use of strong perfumes of any sort near me. I recoil from elderly women bathed in perfume like a vampire exposed to garlic. I too find GAIN products (detergent, dryer sheets...) to be especially repellant.

I need fresh air when I drive... I generally keep my driver's side window open at least an inch, no matter how cold it may be. Unless I see a dead skunk in the middle of the road, but by then it is usually too late!


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> If a passenger tries to say you refused a service animal, they would have to prove that they had a service animal.


Uber has a strong history of putting the burden of proof on the drivers by deactivation.



tohunt4me said:


> Give service animals a ride or quit.


Pretty much - it's the law.



steveK2016 said:


> Remember, you are an IC. You are a separate business entity to your other Uber drivers.


YES TO THIS.



Duro said:


> I say zip it and just take the dad gummed animal.....we have bigger fish to fry here like no tipping on the app, disrespectful riders, and illiterate customer support reps.....


It's the law not much of a choice.

My two cents:
$0.01: If you have allergies then you probably have some means of surviving in public or around people with pet dander already on their clothing. If not then sad to say you are not a good candidate for this gig. If you can deal, take the dog. There are far more ridiculous laws in this country to comply with than transporting a person with a legitimate service animal.
$0.02: Pet hair is nothing to clean up compared to the other crap we deal with as drivers.... deal with it. Use a blanket, plastic sheet, whatever. If the dog has an accident or the owner is vomiting, submit for your usual cleaning fee.


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## CatchyMusicLover (Sep 18, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> Remember, you are an IC. You are a separate business entity to your other Uber drivers. Once you accept a fare, that fare is yours. Accomedations to move rooms is based on the facility of whomever is servicing the disabled individual. Thats you and your car. You can separate yourself as much as you can between the front and rear seats, but that provision does not imply that uber must find another car to accommodate a service animal.


I dunno. It seems to me that someone is ordering "an Uber" (or Lyft or whatever), not ordering "X driver". If someone were truly their own business, 
And considering all the crap they can do, especially lately (like redirect your ride because they found a rider 'closer'), it's even less clear cut.



steveK2016 said:


> The point of the ADA is so disabled individuals can receive the same, expedient services as non-disabled no service dog individuals have. If we could keep passing the buck to the next uber driver, and if allergies can be ruled as an exemption, what if every uber driver down the list continue to reject based on allegies? Now the pax with service animal is waiting an hour for a ride while others without the service animal gets picked up in 5 min. That is exactly what the law was created to prevent, which is why it is so strict.


That is a good point, certainly.


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## Esr (Jul 23, 2016)

JimKE said:


> One of the problems with this approach is that some states have far more stringent regulations than the Federal ADA.
> 
> I am not an expert on this subject, but I have read posts here which said that if a person makes almost any claim of support of any kind from an animal, it qualifies under that state's law. If that's correct, you could be right on the Federal law, but in trouble under state law.
> 
> So far this has been a non-issue for me. I've had one tiny dog with pax, and it was buttoned up in its carrier and incredibly well-behaved.


Please explain how PTSD qualifies you for a service dog?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Esr said:


> Please explain how PTSD qualifies you for a service dog?


PTSD is covered by the ADA.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

Uber doesn't care if it's a service animal or a comfort dog. You have to take them, regardless. Believe me, I learned the hard way.


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

REX HAVOC said:


> Uber doesn't care if it's a service animal or a comfort dog. You have to take them, regardless. Believe me, I learned the hard way.


Because YOUR state covers Emotional Support Animals.

The fed is the ADA. That's the minimum that absolutely has to be adhered to in every state. Some states allow more protections for the disabled, like Emo Support, or animals other than just dogs and mini-horses. It's up to each driver to know their state's laws, as well as the ADA, and also the laws of any other state they pick up in.


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## Baltorious (Dec 4, 2015)

heyimjason said:


> Yes... you can. I know 3 people here that have done that. 1 guy did it just so he could take his awesome dog to his boring job. The other 2 did it specifically because they lived in great apartments that had no-pet policies. They just had to fill out a form, send something like $45, and that was that. They didn't have any special training other than to not shit indoors.
> 
> Trying to clean animal hair from upholstery can take a long time. It's not fair to expect people to have to do that. I'll have to email Uber and ask if they have any precedence or official rules on that one. Otherwise, everybody is just going to start saying they're allergic to dogs.


NO you cannot get any animal "registered". The websites that take money for this are not legit. There is a HUGE difference between a Service Animal - one who receives specific training for a specific disability - and an ESA or Emotional Support Animal - one that does not need specific training. A psychologist will typically write a letter or sign a form stating the ESA is needed for emotional support. The laws that cover a Service Animal do not cover an ESA except for housing issues. Airlines, businesses, restaurants, etc are not required to allow an ESA in, but Landlords cannot refuse an ESA. Most people do not know the difference. We have a deaf/blind rehab center here and I have picked up people with legit Service Dogs many times. They always ask if I mind and I always tell them of course not. Rather have a well behaved dog in my car than some human who bathed in after shave/ perfume!


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## Esr (Jul 23, 2016)

Demon said:


> PTSD is covered by the ADA.


What specific service does the dog perform for your PTSD?


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Esr said:


> What specific service does the dog perform for your PTSD?


I don't have PTSD.


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## Bozo's Intestines (Aug 31, 2016)

I've transported dogs several times, no questions asked. When the pax has a dog, I spread out a big old blanket that I bought at the second hand store that completely covers the entire back seat and floor. I've never had a problem. These blankets cost $3 or $4 or so If the blanket were to get hairy or soiled, I'd just replace it.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

theclowns said:


> Well if one gets deactivated for not taking a pax with a service animal it will be about time. Not sure if Uber is actually doing this yet though they should have been doing it for years. I do know there have been many law suits against Uber for denial of rides due to this just with in the blind community. The NFB (National Federation of the Blind) is not a group you want to go up against. They have a plethora of lawyers and some are with in the blind community. The blind community is sick and tired of trying to get to work or where ever and being denied rides because of their service animal. The most common excuse from drivers is "allergies". Now I know some of you have a legit allergy to dogs but unfortunately that excuse has been used too often by drivers who just didn't want to deal with a dog. But that is neither here nor there as it is not a legal excuse to use as previously mentioned so many times in this forum. So far drivers have been lucky that the NFB has just been going after Uber and not the individual drivers. I think that is what the NFB should actually start doing as drivers will continue to deny and state they are IC and don't have to do anything they don't want to do. That is just not going to fly in a law suit.
> 
> I have been around many guide dogs with in the blind community and have never had any problems with any of the dogs. The ones I have been around are all sweethearts, especially when they are out of "working" mode and I get to play with them. They are all trained to to sit under chairs, tables where ever their person is going. So when they get in a car it is automatic for them to get on the floor in the back. Easiest thing to do would be have a good sized blanket in the trunk and just throw it on the floor up over the seat to catch dog hair. Yep dog hair is a pain in the a**, have had to vacuum it up myself.
> 
> ...


How did people with guide dogs get around when uber or shareride was non existent?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Tedgey said:


> In my friend's case the issue had something to do with the restroom. The way he found out about it was through a letter sent by a private attorney making a demand and threatening him with a daily penalty if he didn't comply. He asked around and nobody had heard a complaint, nor could anybody remember anyone with a disability that had been there so he just threw it out. Turns out to have been the wrong thing to do


All heated plumbing under sinks etc MUST be insulated. As handicapped people may have no feeling in legs,severe burns may occur when they position to wash hands. Toilet stalls must have at least one large enough to be wheelchair accessible.
Toilets must be a certain height.
Rails must be in stalls for hand grips.


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick (Oct 2, 2016)

freddieman said:


> How did people with guide dogs get around when uber or shareride was non existent?


My question is, how do they pick up after their dogs after they drop a deuce?
Most of them are blind, right?
How do they clean up the pile, by sense of smell?

I'm never shaking a blind person's hand again!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> Absolutely. There are also predatory attorneys who will get someone who is disabled to file a complaint if you're not 100% in compliance. Here is a common one that a lot of places have made mistakes on and some attorneys are getting absolutely rich on. Did you ever see the handicap spots with the blue lined area next to them? That area is supposed to be 5 feet wide. Nine times out of ten, what I see, is it about 4, and not the full 5. That can run the property owner hundreds of thousands of dollars between the civil lawsuit and the government fines. These lawyers put people out of business every single day, and they run the insurance rates up for the businesses that continue to exist period but is it really the attorneys doing it, or is it the business owners who are not in compliance with a law that is over 20 years old? There was plenty of time to comply.


Contact today for FREE QUOTE on Sticky Lawyer Traps !
Tested and Proven to have trapped a 350 pound Sumo Wrestler until he starved to death !
If it works on Rats ,it will work on Lawyers !
* you are responsible for disposal.



Tr4vis Ka1anick said:


> My question is, how do they pick up after their dogs after they drop a deuce?
> Most of them are blind, right?
> How do they clean up the pile, by sense of smell?
> 
> I'm never shaking a blind person's hand again!


That would be fine with them !
They can only Imagine what you've been up to,they can't see.


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## iUBERdc (Dec 28, 2016)

Jo3030 said:


> So have passengers found the automatic way to get back at drivers?
> Just accuse you that you didn't want to take their service animal and there goes the driver's account?
> Seems fair.


That's actually very terrifying. The complaining pax doesn't even need to prove there was a dog present at all.

Wouldn't someone that was this much hassle (people with totally non legit service animals) have such a low rating that just avoiding low rated pax would avoid this whole situation?


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

freddieman said:


> How did people with guide dogs get around when uber or shareride was non existent?


Buses and taxis, same as everyone else.



Tr4vis Ka1anick said:


> My question is, how do they pick up after their dogs after they drop a deuce?
> Most of them are blind, right?
> How do they clean up the pile, by sense of smell?
> 
> I'm never shaking a blind person's hand again!


http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=28865



iUBERdc said:


> That's actually very terrifying. The complaining pax doesn't even need to prove there was a dog present at all.
> 
> Wouldn't someone that was this much hassle (people with totally non legit service animals) have such a low rating that just avoiding low rated pax would avoid this whole situation?


Dash cam, and when you respond to Uber, make sure to include terms like "fraudulent claim" and 'slander' (so long as the pax wasn't able to answer the two questions suitably, if there was a dog).

And it's not just the disabled people who are able to bring these animals and expect accommodation in any public place including our vehicles when were working. These animals have to be trained and their trainers will bring them into these situations as well. We also have to accommodate that. A trainer will also be much quicker to report and follow up on any rejection or non-compliance with the law.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

CatchyMusicLover said:


> I dunno. It seems to me that someone is ordering "an Uber" (or Lyft or whatever), not ordering "X driver". If someone were truly their own business,
> And considering all the crap they can do, especially lately (like redirect your ride because they found a rider 'closer'), it's even less clear cut.
> 
> That is a good point, certainly.


Incorrect. The Uber App is a lead generator. We are independent contractors providing ride share service which is basically a drive for hire business.

When we receive a request, we are given a lead by Uber for someone that wants a ride. We, as the actual transportation company, fulfills this request. The app is merely booking the request and stream lining our ability to pickup and deliver the passengers. You can have multiple lead generators, Lyft, Juno... your own efforts to secure private rides, etc.

Just because some people look at it one dimensionaly doesn't change the nature of the relationship.


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## iUBERdc (Dec 28, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> Incorrect. The Uber App is a lead generator. We are independent contractors providing ride share service which is basically a drive for hire business.
> 
> When we receive a request, we are given a lead by Uber for someone that wants a ride. We, as the actual transportation company, fulfills this request. The app is merely booking the request and stream lining our ability to pickup and deliver the passengers. You can have multiple lead generators, Lyft, Juno... your own efforts to secure private rides, etc.
> 
> Just because some people look at it one dimensionaly doesn't change the nature of the relationship.


It's all BS to get around taxi laws, minimum wage laws and giving us benefits. We don't set prices or see what work we will preform until we start the trip, doesn't sound like an indie company to me


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

iUBERdc said:


> It's all BS to get around taxi laws, minimum wage laws and giving us benefits. We don't set prices or see what work we will preform until we start the trip, doesn't sound like an indie company to me


There's a lot of misconception of what makes an independent company. There are plenty of independent company's out there that service ONE customer and are at the absolute whim of that company. If they say jump, they ask how high, because that is the sole contract their company has. Once you have multiple contracts, or multiple marketing channels, then you can be more selective with the contracts you participate in.

Unfortunately, Ridesharing is limited in that respect so the lead generating company has the upper hand. That may not always be the case, but for now it is but that doesn't change the fact that you are free to get leads from anywhere you want. The main reason for such failure is because of your own mentality. You don't see it as a business, you took it as if it would be just another job but don't realize this isn't just a job. You are operating a business, how elaborate you operated such a business is to the individual. I only do Uber, I know I'm limited in that regard, but I am considering starting to do private customers once summer comes along and I can upgrade my insurance policy.

If you limited yourself to leads just from Uber, then you are at their mercy. If you open yourself to Lyft, you get a bit more freedom. If you have Juno, more freedom. If you develop private customers, you may drop the other lead generators and do exclusively private clients.


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## toyota777 (Jan 20, 2017)

Any pax who want to bring their pets with them in my car will be told....You in the car and pet in the trunk. If you don't want to put your pet in the trunk well...your pet can wait for you on the curb!!! Bye bye!!


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## Travis -k (Sep 11, 2016)

I just saw a story on the news, law makers are fed up with this behavior, too many dbags abusing the system with untrained and sometimes dangerous animals.

They are currantly looking into REAL service animal identifications,
And NO your comfort animal will not qualify so stock up on the zanex

http://abc7.com/archive/9444004/
California may crack down


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## Novus Caesar (Dec 15, 2015)

I still cannot believe it says a rider gets $25 every time they report someone not taking a dog. And two free body fluid cleanings?


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## Honey Badger (Oct 1, 2016)

I prefer driving dogs over people


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## Rebuconductor (Mar 3, 2017)

heyimjason said:


> You can get almost any dog registered as a service animal by claiming it simply helps with anxiety or depression. No special training required.
> 
> But my question is - what if you get a service animal (even it if is legit) and it leaves friggin' hair all over your seats? Are you entitled to a cleaning fee?


Yes you can. I did. $150 because the dog was muddy and trashed my car. In the written law it says the owner is responsible for any damages the animal does to private property.


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## MadePenniesToday (Feb 24, 2017)

What if we see pax with animal and just drive past, and just cancel without even speaking to them? Would that work? Also if people do want to go through the trouble and not letting in a service animal then just install a hidden kill switch inside your car. There goes a good excuse. Or you could possible pull a few fuses that cut the car off(not sure if any inside car). I haven't picked up a pax with service animal or pet but I wouldn't have a problem with it unless the dog was dirty.


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## iUBERdc (Dec 28, 2016)

Novus Caesar said:


> I still cannot believe it says a rider gets $25 every time they report someone not taking a dog. And two free body fluid cleanings?


Where did you read that? Yikes, sounds like a good way for someone to fake a service dog and go around trolling drivers.


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## Baby Cakes (Sep 6, 2015)

Shangsta said:


> According to my GLH, plenty of drivers thinking they can refuse service to pax with a service animal. Now if a pax reports refusal driver is auto deactivated
> 
> View attachment 99674
> 
> ...


I had a guy with a service animal, I told him no dogs and he said its a service animal and I am legally required to drive him. I've been racking my mind on how to prevent this in the future. I believe next time I will run into a parked car and call a tow truck


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## dirtylee (Sep 2, 2015)

Got a real service dog ride the other day on lyft. The dog was fine, the pax's BF is a ****** tho. That ****er can walk next time.


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## Wardell Curry (Jul 9, 2016)

Be careful for the "my dog is my companion" excuse and he is there for emotional support. Once pax get wind of this you will start seeing a lot more "service animals".


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

I just had to agree to these service dogs conditions. The correct order is from bottom to top.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

freddieman said:


> How did people with guide dogs get around when uber or shareride was non existent?


Same way everyone else did.



MadePenniesToday said:


> What if we see pax with animal and just drive past, and just cancel without even speaking to them? Would that work? Also if people do want to go through the trouble and not letting in a service animal then just install a hidden kill switch inside your car. There goes a good excuse. Or you could possible pull a few fuses that cut the car off(not sure if any inside car). I haven't picked up a pax with service animal or pet but I wouldn't have a problem with it unless the dog was dirty.


All of that would be illegal.


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

Demon said:


> Same way everyone else did.
> .


Genius


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## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

If Uber is going to insist that you (driver-partner) must allow a service animal in your car or face deactivation (firing), then that is pretty strong prima facia evidence that you are an employee of Uber.

I do not have to allow a service animal into my car because the ADA does not apply to me.

The ADA page states: "Generally, title II and title III entities must permit service animals to accompany people with disabilities in _*all areas where members of the public are allowed to go.*_"

My car is not an area where members of the public are allowed to go. It is my personal and private property and I choose whom I want to invite into my car as my guest.

Notice how Uber has gone from calling us "partner" to "_driver_-partner". They might as well drop "partner" and just say "driver".

Driver=employee.


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## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Shangsta said:


> According to my GLH, plenty of drivers thinking they can refuse service to pax with a service animal. Now if a pax reports refusal driver is auto deactivated
> 
> View attachment 99674
> 
> ...


That's why I have a dash cam



Thomas The Transporter said:


> If Uber is going to insist that you (driver-partner) must allow a service animal in your car or face deactivation (firing), then that is pretty strong prima facia evidence that you are an employee of Uber.
> 
> I do not have to allow a service animal into my car because the ADA does not apply to me.
> 
> ...


You are offering public transportation for hire. You don't choose any of your pax, nor invite them. You don't get to make up your own definition of words. Driver doesn't imply employee


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## LuisEnrikee (Mar 31, 2016)

I'd never refuse a ride to somebody with a dog , I like dogs.
I don't like that you must comply or you'll lose your job . What if you have allergies...


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## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

Rat said:


> You are offering public transportation for hire. You don't choose any of your pax, nor invite them. You don't get to make up your own definition of words. Driver doesn't imply employee


I am NOT offering public transportation for hire. I choose which of every and all POTENTIAL guests I invite into my car.

If you studied law as long as I have, you would know that the definition of every single word matters. The LEGAL definition, not the ENGLISH definition.

I challenge you to prove that I am offering public transportation for hire.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Uber has the questions wrong. You CANNOT ask if the animal is necessary becausr of a disability, only if it is a trained service animal. You can't ask the pax if they have a disability. Your questions have to be about the animal, not the pax.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Demon said:


> Same way everyone else did.
> 
> All of that would be illegal.


Taxi driver's were forced to do it by the same rules.

And they get in trouble all the time,

Different job title same BS.



Thomas The Transporter said:


> If Uber is going to insist that you (driver-partner) must allow a service animal in your car or face deactivation (firing), then that is pretty strong prima facia evidence that you are an employee of Uber.
> 
> I do not have to allow a service animal into my car because the ADA does not apply to me.
> 
> ...


Your kinda wrong dude...

The lawmakers and courts have declared that the intention of the ADA rules is to force taxis to take passengers with service animals. The moment you open up your car to the public to uber, you lose that right.

The intention of this
*
all areas where members of the public are allowed to go*

is to say that all public areas of buildings need to accessible to service animals, but in a kitchen in a restaurant (where the public isn't allowed in normally) they can bar the service animal from entering.

Hospital OR- no service dog
Anywhere a business doesn't want customers wandering... no service dog.

They say it this way BECAUSE they CAN'T say "You have to allow service animals anywhere in a public building"

Taxis get in trouble for this all the time, the difference is that everyone hates uber right now, and likes piling on new )#**$ for uber to dig out of.


----------



## Rat (Mar 6, 2016)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> I am NOT offering public transportation for hire. I choose which of every and all POTENTIAL guests I invite into my car.
> 
> If you studied law as long as I have, you would know that the definition of every single word matters. The LEGAL definition, not the ENGLISH definition.
> 
> I challenge you to prove that I am offering public transportation for hire.


Check your local ordinances. You are classified as a vehicular for hire, and must abide by all regulations. Guests don't pay.


----------



## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Taxi driver's were forced to do it by the same rules.
> 
> And they get in trouble all the time,
> 
> ...


You're talking about taxis. I'm not a taxi driver driving a taxi. If you are trying to claim so, you need to prove it.



Rat said:


> Check your local ordinances. You are classified as a vehicular for hire, and must abide by all regulations. Guests don't pay.


I am not a "vehicular for hire", whatever that is. If you think I am, prove it.

My guests don't pay me. They pay Uber for using Uber's rider app.

Uber pays me to help market and promote their app.


----------



## Maudee (Feb 13, 2017)

MadePenniesToday said:


> What if we see pax with animal and just drive past, and just cancel without even speaking to them? Would that work? Also if people do want to go through the trouble and not letting in a service animal then just install a hidden kill switch inside your car. There goes a good excuse. Or you could possible pull a few fuses that cut the car off(not sure if any inside car). I haven't picked up a pax with service animal or pet but I wouldn't have a problem with it unless the dog was dirty.


Alot of them are dirty and smell bad, not sure if the majority bathe them. Nothing against the disabled but hard to get the smell and hair out even using blankets... After giving a ride the vehicle has to be cleaned, other pax don't want hair or wouldn't appreciate the foul smell. Takes from driving. Hate that especially during peak hours..


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> Taxi driver's were forced to do it by the same rules.
> 
> And they get in trouble all the time,
> 
> ...


They have to allow service dogs in areas that are not just open to the general public when there is an employee who needs one. They have to accommodate the animal if it is at all possible. The kitchen, so long as there is a corner somewhere where the animal can lay down until called has to accommodate. An office has to accommodate. I know of one service animal that a company tried to bar when the owner was working there period they had to accommodate him and allow the animal into the shop where electrical work was being done. That falls under the accommodations necessary under the ADA that cover employees with disabilities. Same rule different section of the law.

The one that we are particularly interested in here of course is about the General Public. However, an interesting question becomes, if an Uber driver required a service animal that was covered under the ADA, let's say for allergies for example, would Uber change the requirements for that driver's X car to be that he only needed to carry three passengers, since the dog would have to take up passenger space?


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> They have to allow service dogs in areas that are not just open to the general public when there is an employee who needs one. They have to accommodate the animal if it is at all possible. The kitchen, so long as there is a corner somewhere where the animal can lay down until called has to accommodate. An office has to accommodate. I know of one service animal that a company tried to bar when the owner was working there period they had to accommodate him and allow the animal into the shop where electrical work was being done. That falls under the accommodations necessary under the ADA that cover employees with disabilities. Same rule different section of the law.
> 
> The one that we are particularly interested in here of course is about the General Public. However, an interesting question becomes, if an Uber driver required a service animal that was covered under the ADA, let's say for allergies for example, would Uber change the requirements for that driver's X car to be that he only needed to carry three passengers, since the dog would have to take up passenger space?


That's a good point, I always recommend to customers that i run into, that they count the service animal as a passenger when it comes to passenger count.

Something to keep in mind is that YOU CAN refuse to let someone in a pool/line request if they have too much stuff... (i've had to do this on uberX when someone had too much **$&#&$ AND ONLY 3 PASSENGERS.

There comes a point where you have to draw the line and say "this is not a clown car". At that point as bad as it is... it's defendable to tell someone no or ask them to cancel and reorder.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> You're talking about taxis. I'm not a taxi driver driving a taxi. If you are trying to claim so, you need to prove it.
> 
> I am not a "vehicular for hire", whatever that is. If you think I am, prove it.
> 
> ...


Anyone can hail you to drive for them. That means you're a public vehicle for hire.



Maudee said:


> Alot of them are dirty and smell bad, not sure if the majority bathe them. Nothing against the disabled but hard to get the smell and hair out even using blankets... After giving a ride the vehicle has to be cleaned, other pax don't want hair or wouldn't appreciate the foul smell. Takes from driving. Hate that especially during peak hours..


Then you're in the wrong business.


----------



## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

Demon said:


> Anyone can hail you to drive for them. That means you're a public vehicle for hire.


Wrong.

You guys better get a lawyer, since none of you know the law.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> If you studied law as long as I have...


It's *"prima facie," *not _"prima facia (sic)"_.

Pretty fundamental error for such a learned legal scholar. Just sayin'...

Is _"race ipso lock-quitter"_ next? If so, be careful. Lots of folks are very sensitive to anything having to do with_ "race."_

I encourage you to follow whatever legal precepts you have learned, and do whatever you think best.



LuisEnrikee said:


> I'd never refuse a ride to somebody with a dog , I like dogs.
> I don't like that you must comply or you'll lose your job . What if you have allergies...


It's just a *law*, Luis. You don't _have_ to comply. You have a *choice*.

Yes, choices can have consequences. But it's your decision.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

You know what... this is the ONE! rule that uber actually enforces... just think about that.

Out of every rule that uber breaks this is the one that will get your contract terminated over.

Even uber begrudgingly agrees that they will follow this.

Take service animals, or expect to get deactivated.


----------



## Certain Judgment (Dec 2, 2016)

I don't like dogs and I don't like hair. What ever happened to my reserved rights as a business owner to refuse service to anyone for any reason? Sounds like Uber is treating us like employees again...


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Certain Judgment said:


> I don't like dogs and I don't like hair. What ever happened to my reserved rights as a business owner to refuse service to anyone for any reason? Sounds like Uber is treating us like employees again...


Do whatever you think is best.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Certain Judgment said:


> I don't like dogs and I don't like hair. What ever happened to my reserved rights as a business owner to refuse service to anyone for any reason? Sounds like Uber is treating us like employees again...


You've never had the right to refuse service to ANYONE.



Thomas The Transporter said:


> Wrong.
> 
> You guys better get a lawyer, since none of you know the law.


You're wrong and there's a legal precedent to prove you're wrong.

Anyone in the public can hail you.


----------



## Certain Judgment (Dec 2, 2016)

> You've never had the right to refuse service to ANYONE.


Then I am not truly a self-employed independent contractor, am I?


----------



## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

Demon said:


> You're wrong and there's a legal precedent to prove you're wrong.
> 
> Anyone in the public can hail you.


No one "hails" me.

Riders tell Uber they are looking for a ride with the rider app.

Through the driver app, Uber tells me that someone is looking for a ride.

I decide if I want to help the rider get to where they are going.

If I do, I go to where they are and then decide if I am going to invite this person into my car.

If I let them in, they are now my guest and I drive them to where they are going and drop them off, NO CHARGE.

This person never hailed me and they never paid me a dime.

They pay Uber for use of Uber's rider app.

Uber pays me to help market and promote their app.

And I used to drive a taxi. People did "hail" me when I was driving a taxi. They also paid me directly and I would split that money with the taxi company.

Please cite the court case that "proves I'm wrong".


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Certain Judgment said:


> Then I am not truly a self-employed independent contractor, am I?


It's not just about Uber. This is federal and state laws we're talking about. Uber has just made it policy so that they are not held responsible when some driver does something stupid like refuse a service animal into their vehicle, and the person with the dog turns around and sees the ever-loving s*** out of everyone for it. If you are entirely judgment-proof, and plan on staying that way for the rest of your life, then you may be safe. Do what you will.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Certain Judgment said:


> Then I am not truly a self-employed independent contractor, am I?


There are other reasons why you're not an independent contractor. This isn't one of them.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> No one "hails" me.
> 
> Riders tell Uber they are looking for a ride with the rider app.
> 
> ...


Anybody can get all macho and blow smoke on an Internet discussion board, hiding behind their anonymous screen name. That doesn't take either brains or courage.

The downside is that ignorant comments sometimes mislead well-meaning readers to make mistakes, but people who post trash-talk don't care.

The only way to know who is right is for* you* to deny service to a disabled person with a service animal. Explain your "legal" position to them, and to Uber if they question your actions.

Let us know how that works out for you.


----------



## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

JimKE said:


> Anybody can get all macho and blow smoke on an Internet discussion board, hiding behind their anonymous screen name. That doesn't take either brains or courage.
> 
> The downside is that ignorant comments sometimes mislead well-meaning readers to make mistakes, but people who post trash-talk don't care.
> 
> ...


One of the upsides to knowing the law, and your rights, is when being stopped by a police officer who thinks he's going to write you a ticket. Then ten minutes later, after calling his supervisor, you're driving away with no ticket, and he's walking back to his cruiser with his tail between his legs.

As for Uber, if they deactivated me for refusing to let a dog into my car, I really don't have much recourse, since the agreement states that they can deactivate a driver at any time for pretty much any reason.

I COULD sue them, but for what damages? Lost potential income as a driver? Probably not worth it in the long run.

I would compel Uber to prove that the ADA applies to me, thus giving them the right to terminate our contract because I refused a service animal entry to my car.

The interesting thing about a case like this, is that it would practically force Uber to admit that I am an employee and NOT an independent contractor.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

MadePenniesToday said:


> What if we see pax with animal and just drive past, and just cancel without even speaking to them? Would that work? Also if people do want to go through the trouble and not letting in a service animal then just install a hidden kill switch inside your car. There goes a good excuse. Or you could possible pull a few fuses that cut the car off(not sure if any inside car). I haven't picked up a pax with service animal or pet but I wouldn't have a problem with it unless the dog was dirty.


The PAX can see your vehicle approach then drive through. I'm sure it's not their first rodeo with drivers refusing service when they see an Animal, they can confirm that you got within visual range then decided to just continue driving.



Thomas The Transporter said:


> If Uber is going to insist that you (driver-partner) must allow a service animal in your car or face deactivation (firing), then that is pretty strong prima facia evidence that you are an employee of Uber.
> 
> I do not have to allow a service animal into my car because the ADA does not apply to me.
> 
> ...


It's not Uber that's forcing you to take the Service Animal, it's the Federal ADA law. Uber is just re-iterating the policy and making it clear that you will be deactivated for violating Federal Law.



Thomas The Transporter said:


> You're talking about taxis. I'm not a taxi driver driving a taxi. If you are trying to claim so, you need to prove it.
> .


Did you do your taxes yet? Did you pay Self Employment Taxes for your Uber Earnings? The answer is yes unless you were willing to risk an IRS Audit..... and that's because you are an IC that generated revenue through a business venture thus you are a vehicle for hire, whether or not local/state regulations require you to have a business license and permit. There are many other IC that can operate without having a business licenses in many states, doesn't change the fact that they are providing a business service.



Certain Judgment said:


> I don't like dogs and I don't like hair. What ever happened to my reserved rights as a business owner to refuse service to anyone for any reason? Sounds like Uber is treating us like employees again...


Uber isn't forcing you to do anything, this is a Federal Law...



Certain Judgment said:


> Then I am not truly a self-employed independent contractor, am I?


Yes you are, because even IC must follow Federal law...



Thomas The Transporter said:


> One of the upsides to knowing the law, and your rights, is when being stopped by a police officer who thinks he's going to write you a ticket. Then ten minutes later, after calling his supervisor, you're driving away with no ticket, and he's walking back to his cruiser with his tail between his legs.
> 
> As for Uber, if they deactivated me for refusing to let a dog into my car, I really don't have much recourse, since the agreement states that they can deactivate a driver at any time for pretty much any reason.
> 
> ...


The Proof that ADA applies to you is when the National Federation of the Blind sued Uber for violation of Federal ADA Law and settled in Federal Court, paying a lump sum to the NFB and agreeing to enforce such laws and policies to their contractors.

Being told that you must comply with Federal Law does not make you an employee...


----------



## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> It's not Uber that's forcing you to take the Service Animal, it's the Federal ADA law. Uber is just re-iterating the policy and making it clear that you will be deactivated for violating Federal Law.


Uber is, incorrectly, assuming that the ADA applies to me.



steveK2016 said:


> Did you do your taxes yet? Did you pay Self Employment Taxes for your Uber Earnings? The answer is yes unless you were willing to risk an IRS Audit..... and that's because you are an IC that generated revenue through a business venture thus you are a vehicle for hire, whether or not local/state regulations require you to have a business license and permit. There are many other IC that can operate without having a business licenses in many states, doesn't change the fact that they are providing a business service.


You worry about your taxes and don't worry about mine.

My business is marketing and promoting Uber's rider app, not giving rides to passengers for hire.



steveK2016 said:


> The Proof that ADA applies to you is when the National Federation of the Blind sued Uber for violation of Federal ADA Law and settled in Federal Court, paying a lump sum to the NFB and agreeing to enforce such laws and policies to their contractors.
> 
> Being told that you must comply with Federal Law does not make you an employee...


Not my problem that Uber caved. Doesn't change the fact that I am not subject to the ADA.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> Uber is, incorrectly, assuming that the ADA applies to me.
> 
> You worry about your taxes and don't worry about mine.
> 
> ...


You actively market and promote the Uber app exclusively, huh? That's all you do? You don't provide rides to any passengers?
Uber App is a lead generator. It generates a lead to your business to transport individuals from point A to point B. The income you derived from such endeavors is subject to Self Employment Taxes as an Independent Contractor providing transportation services for individuals from point A to point B, and you know it.

Maybe if all your revenue came from Driver referrals, you could argue your business is as a recruiter. Maybe if all you did was promote the rider referral code, somehow profiting from it, you could argue you are merely marketing and promoting the Rider App but to deny that you are not providing transportation services to passengers for a fee is ludicrous to say the least.

Well, I hope you never have to find out the hard way either way, good luck out there!


----------



## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> You actively market and promote the Uber app exclusively, huh? That's all you do? You don't provide rides to any passengers?
> Uber App is a lead generator. It generates a lead to your business to transport individuals from point A to point B. The income you derived from such endeavors is subject to Self Employment Taxes as an Independent Contractor providing transportation services for individuals from point A to point B, and you know it.
> 
> Maybe if all your revenue came from Driver referrals, you could argue your business is as a recruiter. Maybe if all you did was promote the rider referral code, somehow profiting from it, you could argue you are merely marketing and promoting the Rider App but to deny that you are not providing transportation services to passengers for a fee is ludicrous to say the least.
> ...


I have never provided one ride to a single passenger. However, I do often share my car with people who need to go somewhere. These people are my guests, not passengers.

Once again, please don't tell me my business. You do not know what my business is.


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> I have never provided one ride to a single passenger. However, I do often share my car with people who need to go somewhere. These people are my guests, not passengers.
> 
> Once again, please don't tell me my business. You do not know what my business is.























Thomas The Transporter said:


> I do often share my car with *strangers *who need to go somewhere *in exchange for monetary compensation*.


Fixed it for you.

We both know what your business is regardless of how you want to delusionally spin it. Lol.


----------



## RaleighUber (Dec 4, 2016)

freddieman said:


> How did people with guide dogs get around when uber or shareride was non existent?


Walk, ride, bus, train, taxi, subway, airline, etc. All cannot refuse service to someone with a service animal for any reason.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

I want ALL of you drivers that keep insisting that the ADA doesn't apply to you, or are saying you're just going to drive past when you see a service animal or cancel out-of-hand when a pax calls or texts telling you they have a service animal to PLEASE, BY ALL MEANS, DO IT!!! Especially if you're in NJ!

We need a good culling to take place so the rest of us can start actually making real money again!


----------



## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> Fixed it for you.
> 
> We both know what your business is regardless of how you want to delusionally spin it. Lol.


Sorry, but those are not the legal definitions, which is all that matters in court.

You do NOT know what I do nor how I do it nor how I legally classify myself and my activities.

Legal standing is not delusion. Maybe you could plea "not guilty by reason of delusion" the next time you are in court.


----------



## RaleighUber (Dec 4, 2016)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> Uber pays me to help market and promote their app.


Stupid is as stupid does.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

I saw a nice lady with a Service DOBERMAN in Costco today. Had one of those fake-looking harnesses with "Service Animal" on it.

However, from the behavior of the dog, I'm pretty sure she actually was a service animal. She was super well-behaved. I didn't ask the lady what service the dog provides...



RaleighUber said:


> Stupid is as stupid does.


Yep. And does...and does...and does...


----------



## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

RaleighUber said:


> Stupid is as stupid does.


Really? Can you explain how I am wrong?

I'll let you in on a little secret: If Uber was trying to run a taxi service, state governments would have shut them down, instantly.


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Shangsta said:


> According to my GLH, plenty of drivers thinking they can refuse service to pax with a service animal. Now if a pax reports refusal driver is auto deactivated
> 
> View attachment 99674
> 
> ...


I dont' get this, I don't have any problem with animals. they don't happen that often, so what's the problem here?


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> One of the upsides to knowing the law, and your rights, is when being stopped by a police officer who thinks he's going to write you a ticket. Then ten minutes later, after calling his supervisor, you're driving away with no ticket, and he's walking back to his cruiser with his tail between his legs.


Yeah, right. And I'm an astronaut! LMAO!


----------



## senorCRV (Jan 3, 2017)

RansomT said:


> Your not really dealing with a "reasonable agency", your dealing with the federal government. American's with Disabilities Act (ADA) define the following:
> 
> *Under the ADA, State and local governments, businesses, and nonprofit organizations that serve the public generally must allow service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas where the public is normally allowed to go.*
> 
> ...


The public isn't normally allowed to go into my car


----------



## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

senorCRV said:


> The public isn't normally allowed to go into my car


Exactly. That is just one of the criteria that the law fails to meet when it comes to Uber.



JimKE said:


> Yeah, right. And I'm an astronaut! LMAO!


So are you saying that when YOU are stopped by a cop that you just roll over like a little puppy and let him do whatever he wants to you?

There are many videos on YouTube of drivers standing up to overbearing cops and driving away with no ticket.

You just need to have a pair of balls.


----------



## RaleighUber (Dec 4, 2016)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> Really? Can you explain how I am wrong?


Since you asked...your claim was that you market and promote the Uber app, and do not provide transportation services. If you drive at all, that is patently false. Uber is not a taxi company, as they slyly claim, because they provide an app which matches riders with drivers and process payments. Technically they've survived on that.

Yet, transportation is happening, and you get paid to transport people as an independent contractor. You are the transportation service provider as your name states. Any claim that you are not is false, unless you do not ever drive. The only thing close to "marketing" you do for Uber is if you sign up people on the rider/driver app, they pay you a referral fee.



Certain Judgment said:


> I don't like dogs and I don't like hair. What ever happened to my reserved rights as a business owner to refuse service to anyone for any reason? Sounds like Uber is treating us like employees again...


You've not had the right to "refuse anyone for any reason" in the USA since the 1964 civil rights act. You are focused on the animal when the issue is the animal owner. In your lines above, for the word "dog" substitute the word "black" or "asian" or "disabled" and you'll see the problem.


----------



## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

RaleighUber said:


> Since you asked...your claim was that you market and promote the Uber app, and do not provide transportation services. If you drive at all, that is patently false. Uber is not a taxi company, as they slyly claim, because they provide an app which matches riders with drivers and process payments. Technically they've survived on that.
> 
> Yet, transportation is happening, and you get paid to transport people as an independent contractor. You are the transportation service provider as your name states. Any claim that you are not is false, unless you do not ever drive. The only thing close to "marketing" you do for Uber is if you sign up people on the rider/driver app, they pay you a referral fee.


You are very careless with the words you throw around. "Transportation" is a legal term that has to be proven with many elements. All it takes is for just one of those elements to be deficient to negate the entire allegation.

And my screen name on an internet forum is irrelevant.


----------



## RaleighUber (Dec 4, 2016)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> You are very careless with the words you throw around. "Transportation" is a legal term that has to be proven with many elements. All it takes is for just one of those elements to be deficient to negate the entire allegation.


From Legal Dictionary:
*transportation - Legal Definition: *The movement by a carrier of either people, goods, or products from one location to another.
You provide transportation by any definition. And I know you didn't like my answer, but remember, you ASKED for it.



Thomas The Transporter said:


> And my screen name on an internet forum is irrelevant.


Uh Huh. I guess "Thomas the Marketer" was taken.[/QUOTE]


----------



## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

I stopped with this discussion because Thomas will always believe he's right. That's fine, but he knows deep down inside that he better accept that Service Animal or he won't be driving for Uber regardless of how he wants to spin his transportation activity. 

As I always say, I hope he doesn't have to find out and I wish him the best.


----------



## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> There are many videos on YouTube of drivers standing up to overbearing cops and driving away with no ticket.


So, you haven't actually done that -- you just saw it on YouTube! In the real world I live in, I have never had any kind of an issue with a law enforcement officer. If you have, you're doing something wrong.

I guess YouTube is also the source of your legal brilliance! LMAO.



steveK2016 said:


> I stopped with this discussion because Thomas will always believe he's right.


The amusement finally wore off, so I hit the Ignore button.


----------



## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

Thomas The Transporter said:


> Really? Can you explain how I am wrong?
> 
> I'll let you in on a little secret: If Uber was trying to run a taxi service, state governments would have shut them down, instantly.


You're full of it. Uber waltzed Into town and handed $200,000 to two of our city commissioners, and then those two hired an Uber lobbyist as their political advisor.

There is absolutely ZERO difference in Ubers business model vs. how we run our cab company. Our orders are dispatched via an app *just like Uber.* The cars are owned by the driver *just like Uber.*
The difference is we follow city regulations while Uber does everything possible to avoid them.

Uber IS running a taxi service and no matter how much people like you try to change the name,..it's still a taxi service. You get paid to haul people, right?



senorCRV said:


> The public isn't normally allowed to go into my car


Except when you agree to use it as a private for hire vehicle. ;-)


----------



## iUBERdc (Dec 28, 2016)

Legit question, how many people do you run into with dogs? In 6 months I had maybe 2. None service. One lady brought a quiet small dog, down rated cus she didn't give me a heads up and her husband ate chips in my car. Other pax had a big dog but called ahead and were kind about it and brought a huge blanket.


----------



## Thomas The Transporter (Apr 28, 2016)

RaleighUber said:


> From Legal Dictionary:
> *transportation - Legal Definition: *The movement by a carrier of either people, goods, or products from one location to another.
> You provide transportation by any definition. And I know you didn't like my answer, but remember, you ASKED for it.


And what are the legal definitions of:

1. movement
2. carrier
3. people
4. goods
5. products
6. location?

It's not a matter of whether or not I liked your answer, I just feel bad for people such as yourself who are ignorant of the legal system and get mowed over by government officials because you don't understand your own legal standing.



JimKE said:


> So, you haven't actually done that -- you just saw it on YouTube! In the real world I live in, I have never had any kind of an issue with a law enforcement officer. If you have, you're doing something wrong.
> 
> I guess YouTube is also the source of your legal brilliance! LMAO.


Actually, I've had three encounters with the police where they decided it was best to just let me go on my way without any kind of enforcement action.

Once they understand that you know the law and your rights, they just let you go on your way.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

senorCRV said:


> The public isn't normally allowed to go into my car


When you partner with Uber they are.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

iUBERdc said:


> Legit question, how many people do you run into with dogs? In 6 months I had maybe 2. None service. One lady brought a quiet small dog, down rated cus she didn't give me a heads up and her husband ate chips in my car. Other pax had a big dog but called ahead and were kind about it and brought a huge blanket.


Very legit question. The way some get their shorts in a knot, you'd think it was hourly!

I've been driving a little over 5 months and have had one dog -- a tiny, perfectly-behaved Pomeranian in a carrier. She didn't make a sound, nor did she cause the slightest inconvenience on the way to the airport. Perfect little pax, better than most humans.


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## Maudee (Feb 13, 2017)

Demon said:


> Anyone can hail you to drive for them. That means you're a public vehicle for hire.
> 
> Then you're in the wrong business.


We can all have opinions... Just like you..


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## Mole (Mar 9, 2017)

Can I put the dog in the trunk?


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Mole said:


> Can I put the dog in the trunk?


Would you put your own dog in the trunk?

if its a hatchback or SUV, with the trunk being connected to the passenger cabin youd be fine but a regular trunk?

Come on now...


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## UberAnt39 (Jun 1, 2016)

JimKE said:


> One of the problems with this approach is that some states have far more stringent regulations than the Federal ADA.
> 
> I am not an expert on this subject, but I have read posts here which said that if a person makes almost any claim of support of any kind from an animal, it qualifies under that state's law. If that's correct, you could be right on the Federal law, but in trouble under state law.
> 
> So far this has been a non-issue for me. I've had one tiny dog with pax, and it was buttoned up in its carrier and incredibly well-behaved.


Service animals and Support animals are not the same category. In Calif you have to accept Service animals , you can deny Support animals, or pets for that matter.
I've taken 3 or 4 small dogs with their people attached and had 2 Service dog trips, both guidedogs for the blind.
I also refused a Support animal scammer with his pitbull mix. Just like handicapped parking placards there's always some lowlife that will abuse any decency system.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Maudee said:


> We can all have opinions... Just like you..


That Uber drivers are a public accommodation is fact.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

JimKE said:


> Very legit question. The way some get their shorts in a knot, you'd think it was hourly!
> 
> I've been driving a little over 5 months and have had one dog -- a tiny, perfectly-behaved Pomeranian in a carrier. She didn't make a sound, nor did she cause the slightest inconvenience on the way to the airport. Perfect little pax, better than most humans.


I'll be honest about this... I actively TRY to get regular customers, I hand out cards, i get word of mouth referrals (because i can), so i'm probobly on the north end of normal.

There's a few people (like my regular with the service dog) who call me personally when they need rides over the weekend. Also because I just don't care about dogs there are people who call me because they know i don't care and will let them take their dog (even if it's not a service animal).

But even looking at my record it's fairly low,

I have.. one ever... had an issue with a service animal making a mess. The dog puked all over the back seat and it was disgusting...

In years doing this i have had 1 issue... ever... with a service dog.

However that doesn't change that all these people who refuse to take service animals are wrong and are going to get fired..

And for the record i would rank the likelihood of causing a mess/problem as the following.

1. drunk college kids
2. drunks over 25
3. children
4. people getting drive through
5. pets
6. service animals
7. Medical transportation
8. people going to/from work
9. people going to the airport

That puts pets and service animals as... right around average...


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> I'll be honest about this... I actively TRY to get regular customers, I hand out cards, i get word of mouth referrals (because i can), so i'm probobly on the north end of normal.
> 
> There's a few people (like my regular with the service dog) who call me personally when they need rides over the weekend. Also because I just don't care about dogs there are people who call me because they know i don't care and will let them take their dog (even if it's not a service animal).
> 
> ...


And your one issue with a service dog wasn't anything to indicate that the dog was not properly trained and well behaved. It was something that could not be helped. Disgusting as it was, the dog still rates higher than drunk humans that puke in the car!


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> And your one issue with a service dog wasn't anything to indicate that the dog was not properly trained and well behaved. It was something that could not be helped. Disgusting as it was, the dog still rates higher than drunk humans that puke in the car!


The dog did it right in the middle of the seat, one drunken idiot puked "IN" the door, vomit slid through the mechaninsims of the window and they had to tear the door apart, clean it, and put it back together,

The shop took over 2 hours to do it... given that i have seen them swap a headlight in 5 minutes, change an alternator in 45, reupholster a bench seat in 6 minutes, That should really tell you something.

I could have cleaned up the dog vomit myself because it was on leather seats and in the dead square middle of the seat, but the customer called dispatch and asked them what she should do...

either way i let someone else clean it up and I've had way worse vomit cleanups.


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