# Dont take the long trips



## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

How uber has refused to pay me for a long trip on March 15th from Endicott New York to Brooklyn New York, 7 hours 54 minutes, worth over $500 and now I have to sue them






The trip was from Endicott New York, to Brooklyn New York, and back again to Endicott New York, during 1.6 x surge 7 hours 54 minutes, total fare $741 , my payout $524 not including tolls on March 15th at 3:58 pm, ... review board 5 times and still no money yet!


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## Merc7186 (Jul 8, 2017)

You must be a new driver, so let me explain this for you. Anytime that you have a fare with a high dollar amount like yours, Uber holds back the payment for several business days just to confirm that there wasnt any fraud.

Also, offer to send them your dashcam footage of the trip as proof that the trip was taken as well.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Did all that several times. Uber is calling it an unauthorised ride. You didn't read the whole post or video, and I have been calling and emailing them since March 15th , more than a month ago, and sent a registered return receipt intent to sue letter detailing everything with copies of receipts and screen shots alost 2 weeks ago to a hub, and still no money yet


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## UberBeemer (Oct 23, 2015)

This is bad. Clearly, the customer paid them. I can see a day or two to verify, but this is crazy. You should document this in writing, with screenshots of ride details, and submit to your local states attorney's consumer fraud division. Maybe local news, too, if they have reporters that run these stories.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I guess you assumed that the rider was paying you for the ride back home to compensate you for the dead miles. He must know that he wouldn’t find a driver willing to do the long ride unless he made an arrangement like this

I would have assumed the same thing.

I think you were scammed by the riders. 
So you complete the trip and the customer was double billed At least that’s what he tells Uber when he calls. And it looks like he was double billed

I think Uber should pay you half the $500. But I understand why they won’t pay you anything

If something like this happens to me in the future. I’ll know to just cancel.


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## Yulli Yung (Jul 4, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> How uber has refused to pay me for a long trip on March 15th from Endicott New York to Brooklyn New York, 7 hours 54 minutes, worth over $500 and now I have to sue them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 As a driver with over 10,000 rides there's something fishy about your post. I get the feeling that there is a lot more to this story than you are telling us.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Again, this is a friendly warning, I am a full time uber driver since October with over 1600 trips and a 4.9 rating , and I did many long trips b4 this, never again


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> Again, this is a friendly warning, I am a full time uber driver since October with over 1600 trips and a 4.9 rating , and I did many long trips b4 this, never again


But this wasn't just a long trip
It was a long round trip with no passengers on the second leg. Looks fishy to me and apparently to Uber


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## Alexxx_Uber (Sep 3, 2018)

If it’s true, it’s horrible


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Yulli Yung said:


> As a driver with over 10,000 rides there's something fishy about your post. I get the feeling that there is a lot more to this story than you are telling us.


Thanks so much Mr 10000 god, but no theres ABSOLUTELY nothing fishy or anything I didn't mention in the you tube video, this is 100 % absolute truth,. AGAIN this is a friendly warning, who in their right mind drives nearly 8 hours to Brooklyn New York no less, for fraudulent purposes.I will post a copy of the trip details including the actual gps map showing the route I actually drove


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## mrpjfresh (Aug 16, 2016)

I believe there is a small clause that both Uber and Lyft employ that essentially says they reserve the right to deny payment if they simply _suspect_ fraud. Because of this horsecrap and the fact it is simply not financially viable in my market, I politely refuse all rides over 35-40 minutes. I just cannot even imagine being with a pax for literally hours for what Uber pays me.

Most of us know these TNCs are not to be trusted, but I do wish you luck. Unfortunately, so many drivers are just ignorant and have no clue Uber and Lyft are not really their partners. Your eyes are now wide open however.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

oldfart said:


> I guess you assumed that the rider was paying you for the ride back home to compensate you for the dead miles. He must know that he wouldn't find a driver willing to do the long ride unless he made an arrangement like this
> 
> I would have assumed the same thing.
> 
> ...


It doesn't look like the passenger was double billed when the passenger put in the 2 stops. Uber can see that the ride requests and the stops were put in by the passenger. At best Uber could decide that the customer's account was stolen and refund them, but they should still pay the driver. Uber is suggesting that this guy somehow stole a complete strangers account info and created the trip himself. This guy, who can't handle having his phone hooked up to bluetooth.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Ok folks, lets all try to be intelligent here and not Monday morning quarterbacks, I didn't write this post to justify something fishy, and in the integrity of an honest heart I attempted to perform a good service exactly as the APP asked me to do. I get it that the rider pulled a fast one on uber, but uber should have stood behind me regardless, I drove the route AS DIRECTED, completed the trip AS REQUESTED, verifying every detail . They all jumped out of the car, and the only way to complete the trip was to finish the last stop. Lets not all overstate the obvious. I would like to see what you would all do 8 pm in downtown project area of Brooklyn after driving 4 hours to get there if you were in my shoes?? What... call the Uber hotline and spend an hour on the phone with so helpful agents??? on the only phone I had that was running the Uber app in the midst of an uncompleted super big trip??

Here is my last post on this Folks, I am just trying to prevent other drivers from getting nailed, and have no desire to be insulted any futher, because I am not stupid or a rookie, here is the trip details , look for your self especially at the gps map:


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

I’m not fully up to speed on this thread but in my market there is a cap of $300 per ride and I’ve heard of drivers not get paid for exceeding the cap.
$300 works out to about 300 km/3 hr ride for me.

Could that have been an issue?


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

and ps your right Atom , I have hearing aides and trying to use the bluetooth/ aides/ and still talk to riders is just too hard to do in my noisy subaru, thanks


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## Nobo (Oct 22, 2017)

Honestly some shit like that pops up on my App and I actually WANT to take it (because I probably wouldn't) I would just call support right through the app to verify BEFORE I move .


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

and ok one more point, I have driven over 250 completed trips since then, just no more long trips.- if I was really intent on frauding Uber, would I &co............. etc.


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## JoeysMama (Apr 13, 2019)

Have you tried visiting one of the hubs to see what they say? Calling that driver support number is such a waste of time. Those support people (I think they're stationed in Manila) sound like they're reading from a script. I've found visiting the hub is far more effective. (at least the one I've been to; which is in Westbury, New York (on Long Island)


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

The nearest hub to me is almost 3 hours away. --I sent a registered return receipt letter April 8th( they signed for it on the 12th) with a notice of intent =to that hub in Secaucus New Jersey, detailing everything with copies of all my receipts and screen shots, giving them 5 days to respond,.. guess what, STILL no response --I will have to travel there for my day in court, and plan to charge them for that and a hotel stay.. I have tried everything ! Letter attached below.:

Andrew R
My address, phone number ,dob .
Social security # and email address​Monday April 8th 2019
UBER
Secaucus Greenlight Hub
150 Meadowlands Pkwy
Secaucus, NJ 07094
* 
NOTICE OF INTENT OF LEGAL SUIT/ARBTRATION:*​*

Plaintiff: *Andrew Rxxxx *vs.* *Defendant*: Uber (transportation Network Company)

Dear receiving Uber representative:
The afore mentioned Plaintiff (Andrew Rxxxxx) does hereby intend to pursue legal action in the form of a lawsuit or arbitration, against your company for theft of wages from refusal of payment for services provided according to joint agreement on *March 15th at 3:58 pm*. The Plaintiff has repeatedly attempted to request payment on numerous emails, and phone calls sent to your company for services provided on the afore mentioned date and time as per a formal virtual agreement. These emails and messages can easily be found on the Uber software application or email record. However, to date, the plaintiff still has not received payment in any form or amount for the services requested by the afore mentioned defendant through their proprietary software authorized android platform, installed correctly through their approved provider Google market place.
Please also be aware that the defendant has a lengthy well documented collection of receipts and records in conjunction with this matter, perfectly establishing the 100% credibility of this claim and 100% verification of 3 distinct facts: 
The Defendant Uber, did in fact request the plaintiff to perform the service in question on March 15th at 3:58 pm; The authorized request was to drive a long trip for the correct rider(s), for 7 hours 54 minutes, incurring 2 tolls, from Endicott NY to Brooklyn NY, and then back to Endicott NY . This authorized by Uber partner application and verified by the plaintiff.
The plaintiff did in fact accept the request using correctly installed Uber approved android software. Verified the rider via a recorded phone call from the rider, also the route, stop and destination. The plaintiff did in fact then proceeded to drive the specified route by the GPS aspect of the approved Uber application. The plaintiff arrived correctly at the pickup location, stop, and then the final destination with the correct rider(s) verifying this 2 more times. The plaintiff refueled his vehicle once and picked up toll money from an en -route ATM machine, and paid 2 tolls ,
Beyond all reason of doubt ,the 100% proof of absolutely NO fraudulent, falsifying behavior, or wrong doing on behalf of the plaintiff or any other unauthorized activity in the fulfillment of the accepted afore mentioned Uber authorized request on March 15th at 3:58 pm
The plaintiff has offered on several occasions to produce copies of the toll receipts, the ATM stop, and phone records that establish by time and location the validity of the claim that the trip was completed correctly according the Uber's request and 100% authorized by Uber, and there was no fraudulent activity on behalf of the plaintiff.
The GPS log clearly shows that the plaintiff's vehicle did in fact drive the Uber specified route for 7 hours and 54 minutes with the correct rider(s) on the afore mentioned date and time,,
Uber has refused to make any monetary compensation as they agreed to do per documented virtual agreement.
This leaves the defendant no other choice than to pursue legal action. Should you decide to pay in full, or attempt arbitration, thus averting any legal activity, please contact the defendant immediately and *Then* remit payment to the address listed on this letter or through the Uber software application *no later than 5 business days after receipt of this letter.*
The total fare for this trip was $741.99,
x 70.5%
The Plaintiff's payout $ 523.10
+ 2 tolls @ $16 total;
$539.10 please remit
(Screen shot copy of trip details enclosed)
If you have questions regarding this impending legal action, please call the defendant at (my phone number)
Thank you for your immediate attention to this serious matter.
Sincerely,
x
Undisclosed legal representation for Andrew Rxxxxxxx


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

Andrew R said:


> Ok folks, lets all try to be intelligent here and not Monday morning quarterbacks, I didn't write this post to justify something fishy, and in the integrity of an honest heart I attempted to perform a good service exactly as the APP asked me to do. I get it that the rider pulled a fast one on uber, but uber should have stood behind me regardless, I drove the route AS DIRECTED, completed the trip AS REQUESTED, verifying every detail . They all jumped out of the car, and the only way to complete the trip was to finish the last stop. Lets not all overstate the obvious. I would like to see what you would all do 8 pm in downtown project area of Brooklyn after driving 4 hours to get there if you were in my shoes?? What... call the Uber hotline and spend an hour on the phone with so helpful agents??? on the only phone I had that was running the Uber app in the midst of an uncompleted super big trip??
> 
> Here is my last post on this Folks, I am just trying to prevent other drivers from getting nailed, and have no desire to be insulted any futher, because I am not stupid or a rookie, here is the trip details , look for your self especially at the gps map:


It appears the pickup and destination are the same. There are other threads where people did not get paid for this type of trip as well. It might have nothing to do with the length of the trip. I also appears you traced the exact route as well. Frankly, I don't think the uber app can properly figure out these types of trips. I will never do an exact round trip after reading forums. I will alter the route and ending address in some way.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

I have watched your video and these are my thoughts:

1) You got sucked into a classic double scam by Uber and the rider (you got pincered). I'm pretty sure there is a "maximum fare" in every market and in your area it should be around 200-300. This is one of Uber's many scams where they don't pay you for exceeding the cap claiming some kind of fraud. Even though they know ahead of time which trips are going to be in violation they still let you take them so that they can bill the customer and make out like bandits. The pax obviously knew that too and took you for a ride, all the way to Brooklyn (downtown).

2) You were greedy and ignored many, many red flags. Especially the part where he sent you back empty lol. He saw you coming from a mile away. Obvious scam. Why would someone do that? It doesn't make sense. You should have played this very differently, the warnings were there. Account holder not present? A bunch of vague promises issued? Empty return lol man...how could you let them do you like this :frown:

People are saying it's about retracing route but I've done trips where the pax puts in a stop wherever then the final destination is back home and I retraced the route 100% and got paid instantly and properly so I can't see that being the problem. I can see Uber just lying about it being the problem.

I hope you take them to court and crucify them. You should also file criminal charges against the rider for fraud. Don't threaten to arbitrate lol that's they want! Let us know how it goes.

I'm not super clear on what exactly their official reason for not paying you is. Can you elaborate on that?


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

"Rider fraud, this trip has been flagged as an unauthorized trip".........
You asked:
_2) You were greedy and ignored many, many red flags. Especially the part where he sent you back empty lol. He saw you coming from a mile away. Obvious scam. Why would someone do that? It doesn't make sense. You should have played this very differently, the warnings were there. Account holder not present? A bunch of vague promises issued? Empty return lol man...how could you let them do you like this :frown: ----_
I wasn't greedy , I was trusting that Uber would pay for what they asked me to do regardless, and when I was downtown Brooklyn, I knew I couldn't eliminate the last stop (or empty backtrip) without loosing the whole trip from past experience.. I-- Bottom line Uber asked me to do it, so I did it, period backtrip included, and the rider knew at the first 10 minutes when he asked for the ride, that it was going to cost him $700, not wait for the next day to complain. That's why I left the door open for arbitration, and have always made that clear.

If anything I was naive and trusting (especially of a multimillion dollar company), how stupid of me!


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> If anything I was naive and trusting (especially of a multimillion dollar company), how stupid of me!


Exactly. Never trust UL! Let's not get crazy though, you got greedy for sure. You know damn well the empty return trip doesn't make any sense. Was that not a major clue to call support before resuming to confirm everything? Really you should have called them before starting the first leg when the account holder didn't show up on such a long trip but you should definitely have called before starting the second leg. You just wanted to do it and "trap" Uber into paying you, knowing damn well the pax was up to something. C'mon now!

Rider scammed you, you should get at least half. I support this lawsuit. But if you gonna sit there and tell me you didn't get greedy, you are either lying or insanely gullible. How do you plead?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

NotanEmployee said:


> It appears the pickup and destination are the same. There are other threads where people did not get paid for this type of trip as well. It might have nothing to do with the length of the trip. I also appears you traced the exact route as well. Frankly, I don't think the uber app can properly figure out these types of trips. I will never do an exact round trip after reading forums. I will alter the route and ending address in some way.


Exactly. This has nothing to do with the length of the trip. OP got scammed by riders abusing the system.



Andrew R said:


> "Rider fraud, this trip has been flagged as an unauthorized trip".........
> You asked:
> _2) You were greedy and ignored many, many red flags. Especially the part where he sent you back empty lol. He saw you coming from a mile away. Obvious scam. Why would someone do that? It doesn't make sense. You should have played this very differently, the warnings were there. Account holder not present? A bunch of vague promises issued? Empty return lol man...how could you let them do you like this :frown: ----_
> I wasn't greedy , I was trusting that Uber would pay for what they asked me to do regardless, and when I was downtown Brooklyn, I knew I couldn't eliminate the last stop (or empty backtrip) without loosing the whole trip from past experience.. I-- Bottom line Uber asked me to do it, so I did it, period backtrip included, and the rider knew at the first 10 minutes when he asked for the ride, that it was going to cost him $700, not wait for the next day to complain. That's why I left the door open for arbitration, and have always made that clear.
> ...


The driver can always change the destination in the driver app. I've done it many times. Upon discovering the return trip you should have changed the final destination to Brooklyn and ended the trip there. You would not lose the trip.

Also you knew something was terribly wrong. I'm sure you thought that the whole way home. After ending the trip in Brooklyn you should have immediately reported a problem or potential fraud to Uber. Instead you chose to drive home asked for your $523 for the round trip... you screwed yourself.

By the way, OP. You don't really think Uber got paid $700 for this trip, do you?


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

I only hoped to complete the trip as Uber asked me to do PERIOD. I did not even now until that night after the trip was completed that there was even a hotline number. My intent was to work it out with Uber after. I never thought the payout would be that high, call me insanely gullible, thats ok, ... I called Uber immediately that night after completing the trip and explained everything in detail, honestly, and the rep. told me no worries you will get paid in 2 days.... 2 weeks... etc, etc.......

Again we are all excellent Monday Morning quarterbacks, but when you are there your first time in a situation like this .........And if you do not complete more than 3/4 of the distance the whole trip gets cancelled automatically from my experience.

So once again:
Ok folks, lets all try to be intelligent here and not Monday morning quarterbacks, I didn't write this post to justify something fishy, and in the integrity of an honest heart I attempted to perform a good service exactly as the APP asked me to do. I get it that the rider pulled a fast one on uber, but uber should have stood behind me regardless, I drove the route AS DIRECTED, completed the trip AS REQUESTED, verifying every detail . They all jumped out of the car, and the only way to complete the trip was to finish the last stop. Lets not all overstate the obvious. I would like to see what you would all do 8 pm in downtown project area of Brooklyn after driving 4 hours to get there if you were in my shoes?? What... call the Uber hotline and spend an hour on the phone with so helpful agents??? on the only phone I had that was running the Uber app in the midst of an uncompleted super big trip??


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Do you think Uber got paid $700?


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

BESIDES, I don't recall Uber every asking me to discriminate or Judge which riders may or may not be pulling a scam, all they asked is for me to use their app software, verify the rider's name and destination, pick them up safely, and follow the app's instructions of what to do next untill the trip is completed PERIOD! and that's what I did, END OF STORY.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

You said in your video that the rider claimed fraud.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

I understand your position is that you did everything by the book/as instructed/as per the system etc. However, you had to have known at some point during the trip that something was up. Therefore your overall thinking was corrupt. You wanted to trap Uber into paying you those dead miles and force them to eat the rider's fraud.

Unfortunately, you didn't realize that Uber is more corrupt, more devious and more powerful than you and they counter forced you to eat everything.



> My intent was to work it out with Uber after.


Thank you for your confession.

This is what I'm saying, you knew there was something up with this ride and instead of doing the right thing you wanted to "work things out later" so that you could get it on record that you did the miles and trap Uber into paying. What you don't understand is that Uber's algo pre-screwed you when it sent you the ping. You think it didn't know the call was BS when it gave it to you? Your greed led you right into Uber's trap and then into the pax's trap.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Remember Uber is very particular not to let us know the trip details ahead of time so we don't cherry pick rides, even down to what the next stop is on a multi stop.

Uber- Adrian, stop, your being ridiculous, " ah youve discovered my evil plan..." REALLY, if so I really need to get a life - again you've got all the answers of should of would of could of .. now after the trip is done. and I am glad that you have learned so well on my behalf, but confession, REALLY? I have never said anything different to what is the truth.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> Remember Uber is very particular not to let us know the trip details ahead of time so we don't cherry pick rides, even down to what the next stop is on a multi stop.


Precisely! The algo knew the second stop though. You really think there's a magic bug that doesn't pay you just because the pickup and dropoff are the same? Haha! The algo targeted you and then it and the scam riders fed you a bunch of nonsense all the way to brooklyn while you gobbled it up!

You got greedy, you ignored red flags, you didn't follow procedure (it's not to sort it out later!) and you got burned. Welcome to rideshare. Just own it. Honestly for only $500 I'd call it a learning lesson and drop this nonsense. I don't think you have what it takes to come out ahead in this case if you let Uber play you like this. You thought you were playing them but they had you in their web the whole time, before you even got the ping.

The pax was technically the main scammer in this scenario but ultimately I blame Uber because they know this goes on and could easily stop it by just enforcing their own existing policies. Yet they don't. Because they make bank on it while the driver eats everything and foolishly gives them legal cover.

You really should have called before leaving Brooklyn. If this is was some kind of magic unicorn rider that wanted to tip you the cost of a return trip, they would have tipped you the cost of the trip! You must have and/or ought to have known this empty return stuff is pure nonsense.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I don't think anybody is trying to second guess you. We're trying to figure out how to handle situations that are potentially fraudulent. And your call to "don't take long trips" clearly isn't the answer.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Well you do the math, you can drive 8 hours doing 20 local $5 to &10 trips and get paid $200 or try to fight uber later. your choice

the point is Uber hung me out to dry. Until Uber gaurantees to pay us for everything they ask us to do on their app, I will refuse all long trips, and you should too.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> Well you do the math, you can drive 8 hours doing 20 local $5 to &10 trips and get paid $200 or try to fight uber later. your choice
> 
> the point is Uber hung me out to dry. Until Uber gaurantees to pay us for everything they ask us to do on their app, I will refuse all long trips.


I understand completely, but is this your first day? Fighting Uber later never works out for you! Especially on large amounts and especially lately. You should have called from Brooklyn and locked in half. That was the smart play.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

UberAdrian said:


> I understand completely, but is this your first day? Fighting Uber later never works out for you! Especially on large amounts and especially lately. You should have called from Brooklyn and locked in half. That was the smart play.


I already explained why I didn't, very good reasons, --- Like I said before NOW we all know that- remember they ask us NOT to discriminate and I didn't


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> I already explained why I didn't, very good reasons, --- Like I said before NOW we all know that- remember they ask us NOT to discriminate and I didn't


Explain again.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Andrew R said:


> I already explained why I didn't, very good reasons, --- Like I said before NOW we all know that- remember they ask us NOT to discriminate and I didn't


I don't know what discrimination has to do with this story. There were big red flags that have nothing to do with the appearance of the riders. The fact that they didn't tell you it was a round trip in advance is really glaring. The minute you saw that return trip the alarm bells should have been ringing.

The fact that you thought you could drive all that way home, in surge no less, with nobody in the car, and get paid for it is really odd.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

UberAdrian said:


> Explain again.


read it again


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> read it again


I would but I don't know what you're referring to.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Once again, in the integrity of an honest intent I performed what Uber asked me to do on their app software PERIOD, I do not recall where it became my responsibility to help keep the multimillion dollar company Uber from being frauded by simple declining to pay a credit card, and we have circled this mountain long enough, and I have been insulted enough for my desire to believe people , shame on me.' AGAIN I have tried every effort to negotiate with Uber to no avail. THIS IS A FRIENDLY WARNING,  in the attempt of protecting others for getting nailed. You obviously are all intelligent enough to use this warning however you choose, MEANTIME, I will only add posts from here on out as to updates if they pay, I sue,.... etc.
Thanks to all for all the wonderful advice - again "Don't take the long trips" that's my story and I am sticking to it because its the 100% truth.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I was trying to be nice. But this is a total fail by the OP.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> Once again, in the integrity of an honest intent I performed what Uber asked me to do on their app software PERIOD, I do not recall where it became my responsibility to help keep the multimillion dollar company Uber from being frauded by simple declining to pay a credit card, and we have circled this mountain long enough, and I have been insulted enough for my desire to believe people , shame on me.' AGAIN I have tried every effort to negotiate with Uber to no avail. THIS IS A FRIENDLY WARNING,  in the attempt of protecting others for getting nailed. You obviously are all intelligent enough to use this warning however you choose, MEANTIME, I will only add posts from here on out as to updates if they pay, I sue,.... etc.
> Thanks to all for all the wonderful advice - again "Don't take the long trips" that's my story and I am sticking to it because its the 100% truth.


Mhmmmm. The app tells you to confirm the rider between stops. Which rider did you confirm before coming back from Brooklyn? Sadly you didn't do what you think you did. You don't have them, they have you.

The 100% truth is that there are millions of rideshare drivers in the world and the top 0.00001% come here to discuss relevant matters. Your faux-PSA is actually a cautionary tale about the dangers of corruption and unethical behaviour.

The 100.0% truth is the situation was fishy from the beginning. You had cause to take additional precautions before even going to Brooklyn. If you wanted to be a fine upstanding citizen and do the right thing - you would have done your verifications there. I understand that sometimes you have to put food on your family and make some dicey calls to bring in that cheddar so I can let this one slide. At least on the leg to Brooklyn you had riders and no major reason to suspect anything. You had plausible deniability for the first leg.

But you are not going to convince us that you did everything by the book on the return leg and Uber should pay you! For 2 reasons. First, we know the book. The book doesn't say anything about being clueless and doing a ride worth hundreds of dollars without a rider as if everything is normal.

Second, Uber has many top lawyers that tell them what they can and can't do. If they think they can do this to you with impunity, they almost certainly can. You probably gave them cover when you didn't confirm the return rider. I'm sure it's in the fine print.

Unless something has changed that I'm not aware of, arbitration costs around 20k USD to initiate and you have to go to the Netherlands. Where you will lose because Uber owns everybody there.

The bottom line here is you wanted to get paid full flavour for all those dead miles back from Brooklyn. The pax presented you an apparent opportunity to lock Uber into paying you for that even though you knew or ought to have known something bogus was happening and done something about it. Your greed and corruption ruined you. If you had been only slightly corrupt you could have collected the $250 which is still better than what you could do in town.

Remember we are the smartest 0.00001% of Uber drivers in the world, you will not come here and fool us with some hilarious fake PSA when your real intent is clear. If you want to vent about how the big bad pax and company took you for a ride in your own car, we are here for you man!

I don't think you can recover this $500 for less than $500. Just cut your losses and read these forums more before doing any major trips.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

for such smart people you should try reading and listening one time:
Once again, in the integrity of an honest intent I performed what Uber asked me to do on their app software PERIOD, I do not recall where it became my responsibility to help keep the multimillion dollar company Uber from being frauded by simple declining to pay a credit card, and we have circled this mountain long enough, and I have been insulted enough for my desire to believe people , shame on me.' AGAIN I have tried every effort to negotiate with Uber to no avail. THIS IS A FRIENDLY WARNING,  in the attempt of protecting others for getting nailed. You obviously are all intelligent enough to use this warning however you choose, MEANTIME, I will only add posts from here on out as to updates if they pay, I sue,.... etc.
Thanks to all for all the wonderful advice - again "Don't take the long trips" that's my story and I am sticking to it because its the 100% truth.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

I don’t think Uber is doing anything to the OP the guy that ordered the ride is scamming both Uber and the op. I’m guessing Uber returned all the money so they got a free ride

If I’m wrong and Uber only returned half then the op should get half of his share too

What I take from his experience is, trust your gut. If it seems too good to be true it probably is


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> for such smart people you should try reading and listening one time:
> Once again, in the integrity of an honest intent I performed what Uber asked me to do on their app software PERIOD, I do not recall where it became my responsibility to help keep the multimillion dollar company Uber from being frauded by simple declining to pay a credit card, and we have circled this mountain long enough, and I have been insulted enough for my desire to believe people , shame on me.' AGAIN I have tried every effort to negotiate with Uber to no avail. THIS IS A FRIENDLY WARNING,  in the attempt of protecting others for getting nailed. You obviously are all intelligent enough to use this warning however you choose, MEANTIME, I will only add posts from here on out as to updates if they pay, I sue,.... etc.
> Thanks to all for all the wonderful advice - again "Don't take the long trips" that's my story and I am sticking to it because its the 100% truth.


I told you where it's your responsibility. Where you confirm the rider on every trip. No rider, no trip. I could be wrong but I'm guessing that's where they got you and that's why you can't negotiate with Uber.

Nobody is insulting you. We are trying to point out that you made some obvious mistakes so you can improve. Good luck to you but I think you're wrong enough here that you won't get anywhere. I would cut my losses and move on. Training isn't free. Just my friendly advice!

Uber should probably pay you at least half here no matter what but you gave them cover to full rob you and they're being jerks about it so...c'est la vie.

Do let us know how it goes.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Andrew R said:


> for such smart people you should try reading and listening one time:
> Once again, in the integrity of an honest intent I performed what Uber asked me to do on their app software PERIOD, I do not recall where it became my responsibility to help keep the multimillion dollar company Uber from being frauded by simple declining to pay a credit card, and we have circled this mountain long enough, and I have been insulted enough for my desire to believe people , shame on me.' AGAIN I have tried every effort to negotiate with Uber to no avail. THIS IS A FRIENDLY WARNING,  in the attempt of protecting others for getting nailed. You obviously are all intelligent enough to use this warning however you choose, MEANTIME, I will only add posts from here on out as to updates if they pay, I sue,.... etc.
> Thanks to all for all the wonderful advice - again "Don't take the long trips" that's my story and I am sticking to it because its the 100% truth.


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## Kodyhead (May 26, 2015)

Lyft has a max you can make on a ride but not aware of uber having anything but a time restrictions for rides that other drivers seemed to bypass on long trips.

Its not the drivers responsibility to check fraud, take them to small claims court and see what evidence they have against the driver


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Ok I will you with my final thought on this matter. Rideshare driver is a business not a job. As the owner it is your responsibility to anticipate and cancel all liabilities. You were presented with a huge and obvious liability and instead of covering yourself like a boss you tried to game the system and it blew up in your face. Start thinking and acting like a boss and you won't have these kinds of problems.



> Lyft has a max you can make on a ride but not aware of uber having anything but a time restrictions for rides that other drivers seemed to bypass on long trips.


It probably varies by jurisdiction but in my market there is a $300 cap. It says so in writing.



> Its not the drivers responsibility to check fraud, take them to small claims court and see what evidence they have against the driver


Indeed and he probably has a claim to the first leg but I don't think he has any claim to the second because it is the driver's responsibility to check for a rider (unless I'm mistake about that?). Even in small claims court he'd have to pay like $100 to file, so he's basically fighting for $150. Doesn't seem worth the hassle.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Why would anyone file a notice of intent to sue.... Mail them a certified letter requesting arbitration...a lawsuit means nothing when your bound by the arbitration clause in the contract.... I'm willing to help you but please don't ever mail a notice of intent to sue


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## Sleepo (Dec 1, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> for such smart people you should try reading and listening one time:
> Once again, in the integrity of an honest intent I performed what Uber asked me to do on their app software PERIOD, I do not recall where it became my responsibility to help keep the multimillion dollar company Uber from being frauded by simple declining to pay a credit card, and we have circled this mountain long enough, and I have been insulted enough for my desire to believe people , shame on me.' AGAIN I have tried every effort to negotiate with Uber to no avail. THIS IS A FRIENDLY WARNING,  in the attempt of protecting others for getting nailed. You obviously are all intelligent enough to use this warning however you choose, MEANTIME, I will only add posts from here on out as to updates if they pay, I sue,.... etc.
> Thanks to all for all the wonderful advice - again "Don't take the long trips" that's my story and I am sticking to it because its the 100% truth.


*2. Arbitration Agreement

By agreeing to the Terms, you agree that you are required to resolve any claim that you may have against Uber on an individual basis in arbitration, as set forth in this Arbitration Agreement. This will preclude you from bringing any class, collective, or representative action against Uber, and also preclude you from participating in or recovering relief under any current or future class, collective, consolidated, or representative action brought against Uber by someone else.
Agreement to Binding Arbitration Between You and Uber.*

You and Uber agree that any dispute, claim or controversy arising out of or relating to (a) these Terms or the existence, breach, termination, enforcement, interpretation or validity thereof, or (b) your access to or use of the Services at any time, whether before or after the date you agreed to the Terms, will be settled by binding arbitration between you and Uber, and not in a court of law.

You acknowledge and agree that you and Uber are each waiving the right to a trial by jury or to participate as a plaintiff or class member in any purported class action or representative proceeding. Unless both you and Uber otherwise agree in writing, any arbitration will be conducted only on an individual basis and not in a class, collective, consolidated, or representative proceeding. However, you and Uber each retain the right to bring an individual action in small claims court and the right to seek injunctive or other equitable relief in a court of competent jurisdiction to prevent the actual or threatened infringement, misappropriation or violation of a party's copyrights, trademarks, trade secrets, patents or other intellectual property rights.


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

I get paid for transporting people. I get paid only up until they get out of the car. At that point I end the trip regardless if I completed the request or not. If I pull over and kick them out, I complete the trip. If I stop at quick stop for them to get soda and they don't come out, I complete the trip. And if they get out without intention of getting back in, I complete the trip. Continuing to drive 4 hours without a passenger while still charging them is indeed fraud. Your ignorance to it doesn't change the situation. Be happy uber didn't deactivate you. I've seen them deactivate for less.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

NotanEmployee said:


> I get paid for transporting people. I get paid only up until they get out of the car. At that point I end the trip regardless if I completed the request or not. If I pull over and kick them out, I complete the trip. If I stop at quick stop for them to get soda and they don't come out, I complete the trip. And if they get out without intention of getting back in, I complete the trip. Continuing to drive 4 hours without a passenger while still charging them is indeed fraud. Your ignorance to it doesn't change the situation. Be happy uber didn't deactivate you. I've seen them deactivate for less.


The only times I've ever driven without a rider in the car are the two times I've been asked to deliver packages. But as soon as the package was out of the car, I ended the trip.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Coachman said:


> The only times I've ever driven without a rider in the car are the two times I've been asked to deliver packages. But as soon as the package was out of the car, I ended the trip.


You are joking, yes? You performed Transporter-calibre work for X prices? You know those packages could have contained fingers right?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

UberAdrian said:


> You are joking, yes? You performed Transporter-calibre work for X prices? You know those packages could have contained fingers right?


Packages are the perfect pax. They don't complain. They don't give directions. And I can play Rush Limbaugh during the trip.


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## woodywho (Sep 4, 2017)

My buddy transported a girl from Orange Cnty NY to Queens,NY in the middle of the night (45+ about 80 miles), when she arrived no one came to the door after 15 mins of waiting he brought her back to OC...Fuber held on to the monies for a couple of days then released in full with tolls. I want to add that the person on the Queens side ordered the ride.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

woodywho said:


> My buddy transported a girl from Orange Cnty NY to Queens,NY in the middle of the night (45+ about 80 miles), when she arrived no one came to the door after 15 mins of waiting he brought her back to OC...Fuber held on to the monies for a couple of days then released in full with tolls. I want to add that the person on the Queens side ordered the ride.


Right there's nothing inherently wrong with a long round-trip ride. The OP just got scammed. I suspect Uber got scammed too.


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## welikecamping (Nov 27, 2018)

Lot's of things that make you go hmmmmm, in this thread. I'm in the boat of I transport people, and they must be in attendance. Although I did do a package delivery once for Lyft - the package was in attendance, in the trunk. Somebody paying me to deadhead back to the starting gate would be a big red flag and I would have to phone a friend before doing that. It's a good cautionary tale though.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

welikecamping said:


> Lot's of things that make you go hmmmmm, in this thread. I'm in the boat of I transport people, and they must be in attendance. Although I did do a package delivery once for Lyft - the package was in attendance, in the trunk. Somebody paying me to deadhead back to the starting gate would be a big red flag and I would have to phone a friend before doing that. It's a good cautionary tale though.


The key in transporting packages is to ask questions and assess the situation to make sure it's all koshur. I want to know what I'm transporting, who's going to receive it, and why they're using Uber. As a driver you've got to use your head and take responsibility for the ride. If your bullshit detector starts going off you have to be proactive.


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## Spider-Man (Jul 7, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> How uber has refused to pay me for a long trip on March 15th from Endicott New York to Brooklyn New York, 7 hours 54 minutes, worth over $500 and now I have to sue them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I feel bad for you man, that stings hope you win. But for next time you get an Out of Town Trip, this is not legal what im saying But i would ask to see there phone to see what Uber is charging them. then Say ill do the ride on my own time Minus the tax so they don't have a reason To hate you . then that -25% that would of went to uber could be your return trip fee . i Live in vegas and i have done this 4x Two to Pahrump 1 to laughlin and the other to Barstow. All cash 100% to me. only way i do an out of town trip to make it worth it.


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## SurgeMasterMN (Sep 10, 2016)

I would go to the local press with your story.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

So last night I came to the realization that you guys have all done something wonderful for me, thanks, you have given me a mock trial by my peers by which to check my intents by!- If I can confirm my actions intents that night against what is transpiring here now THEN I have absolutely no worries in a small claims court of law, and so far 100% :

I do see that many folks who have responded negatively have missed some points brought out in the video:
1-I got/accepted the request at 3:58 pm THROUGH the uber app,while completing a previous request,
2- at 4:01 pm the rider called me twice THROUGH the uber app,
3- at 4:05 pm I called the rider back THROUGH the uber app and confirmed the NAME , PICKUP LOCATION, and DESTINATION, and also the description of the actual riders who would be getting in my car ,
4- I arrived at the pickup location FOLLOWING the uber application instructions,
5- 3 riders entered my car MATCHING the description, and VERIFIED the name on the ride, and 1st STOP, 
6- THE same 3 riders who VERIFIED the 1st STOP destination and RIDER NAME, also verified that they were at the CORRECT STOP, and wanted ALL to exit the vehicle, and ALSO verified that they wanted me to proceed to the next stop empty which I knew nothing about until that exact moment.
7- Calling uber or stopping the trip at the first stop was not feasible at that time having only one OLD phone/ device and yes being new, (since October) I didn't even know that was possible
8- I have made every possible attempt to negotiate with UBER but uber has not responded at all, or paid me ANYTHING!
9- The letter of Intent is a multipurpose tool, some states require it before an actual small claims suit can be served, and if they want to settle/ arbitrate this is their opportunity

The fact remains Uber never asked us to do anymore than what I did, I dont recall ever seeing .." it is the driver's responsibility to let uber know if the rider asks the driver to drive empty...". even though I still did try to work with them on that point. REMEBER, we only now where we are going on the next stop, till when we get to the first one! that's Uber's doing so we do not cherry pick.

AND it sounds to me like if you pull a long trip and Uber wants to decline paying you , your stuck fighting them, period.-- and that's why my video is called "dont take the long trips", if you loose a $5 to $20 trip , oh well, but ........etc.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Sounds like the rider scammed both Uber and OP.
It's simple as when Uber didn't get paid, OP wouldn't get paid.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

amazinghl said:


> Sounds like the rider scammed both Uber and OP.
> It's simple as when Uber didn't get paid, OP wouldn't get paid.


You have to have a valid credit/ debit card attached in order to book the ride, People decline payment all the time ,and sometimes wrongly, Vendors like Uber go to the dispute board of the financial establishment, and the if the purchaser cannot establish their claim the vendor gets paid period- Uber has 100% proof of a gps log showing my vehicle drove the route and performed the requested service, that took close to 8 hours to complete, that's alot of time to cancel  a ride he knew at the first minute was going to cost $741


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

I have read the thread, but still not completely clear on what happened. This is what I've understood so far. please correct me if I'm wrong or missed something.

1) OP picked up pax in Upstate NY and drove them down to NYC.
2.) After dropping them in NYC they requested he continue the ride back to the pick up point empty.
3.) He was paid around $700 for the entire ride, that was subsequently reversed to $0.


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> You have to have a valid credit/ debit card attached in order to book the ride, People decline payment all the time ,and sometimes wrongly, Vendors like Uber go to the dispute board of the financial establishment, and the if the purchaser cannot establish their claim the vendor gets paid period- Uber has 100% proof of a gps log showing my vehicle drove the route and performed the requested service, that took close to 8 hours to complete, that's alot of time to cancel a ride he knew at the first minute was going to cost $741


When was the last time a representative of Uber go a financial establishment? Do you honestly think Uber will hire someone to do this for whatever Uber's cut was for this ride?



reg barclay said:


> 1) OP picked up pax in Upstate NY and drove them down to NYC.
> 2.) After dropping them in NYC they requested he continue the ride back to the pick up point empty.
> 3.) He was paid around $700 for the entire ride, that was subsequently reversed to $0.


That's how I understood it.


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## Lyft-O-Maniac (Aug 18, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> You have to have a valid credit/ debit card attached in order to book the ride, People decline payment all the time ,and sometimes wrongly, Vendors like Uber go to the dispute board of the financial establishment, and the if the purchaser cannot establish their claim the vendor gets paid period- Uber has 100% proof of a gps log showing my vehicle drove the route and performed the requested service, that took close to 8 hours to complete, that's alot of time to cancel a ride he knew at the first minute was going to cost $741


I was under the impression that anyone could simply go to a store and buy a prepaid visa, MC or any other credit type card and add it to their Uber account. Or use a stolen one. I guess I was wrong. Best of luck on your claim. It's a shame you have to go through this.


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## Bus Bozo (May 25, 2018)

Actually I'm glad to know about this scam (by the pax). Smart on their part to scam a driver into the LD trip. However, I would be suspicious about a return trip so long...it's not the same as the pax who wants to go to the local bank and convenience store and back home!

If I fell for it, I'd be so pissed off once we reached the "first stop", because of course at that point my only option would be to end the trip.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Lyft-O-Maniac said:


> I was under the impression that anyone could simply go to a store and buy a prepaid visa, MC or any other credit type card and add it to their Uber account. Or use a stolen one. I guess I was wrong. Best of luck on your claim. It's a shame you have to go through this.


Thanks for your sympathy, as far as how Uber needs to protect themselves from being scammed, is well beyond my pay grade!, One thing is for sure, every other app that I have that allows me to buy goods or services in virtual world and is linked to hard money, is password protected, -my credit card, debit card, ebay, amazon, paypal, etc. all require a password to buy- but NOT Uber, anyone can get/take/steal anyone's phone and use the uber app and buy a ride if they can unlock the phone.- I found this out from asking riders.



Bus Bozo said:


> Actually I'm glad to know about this scam (by the pax). Smart on their part to scam a driver into the LD trip. However, I would be suspicious about a return trip so long...it's not the same as the pax who wants to go to the local bank and convenience store and back home!
> 
> If I fell for it, I'd be so pissed off once we reached the "first stop", because of course at that point my only option would be to end the trip.


Thanks for your sympathy and honesty, exactly!



amazinghl said:


> When was the last time a representative of Uber go a financial establishment? Do you honestly think Uber will hire someone to do this for whatever Uber's cut was for this ride?
> 
> That's how I understood it.


Its a simple phone call process, I have done it with my cable bill once, they overcharged me 1 month, - they stopped the payment and gave the cable company 2 weeks to dispute it by phone, all the cable company had to do is call the bank and explain- AGAIN this is not my concern or responsibility, performing the service correctly according to the UBER app, and verifying name , stop, and destination is, and that's what I did 100%



reg barclay said:


> I have read the thread, but still not completely clear on what happened. This is what I've understood so far. please correct me if I'm wrong or missed something.
> 
> 1) OP picked up pax in Upstate NY and drove them down to NYC.
> 2.) After dropping them in NYC they requested he continue the ride back to the pick up point empty.
> 3.) He was paid around $700 for the entire ride, that was subsequently reversed to $0.


Watch the video

Bottom line is if Uber doesn't want us to drive a trip and pay us for it, they shouldn't ask us to do it ! PERIOD. They are advanced enough to set limits and filters on THEIR app to eliminate this. Why nail me? I thought it was fishy all along but refused to judge because it is NOT my responsibility and I am sure if I refused it at any point for fishiness, could be liable for discrimination. Just because they were from going from Endicott New York projects, to Brooklyn projects, and used a cover story that the little girl was deathly afraid of buses, doesn't mean 100% they were scammers, and in today's day and age especially, I am not supposed or allowed to have this be a reason to decline a service.


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

I constantly have passengers ask to pay with cash or just drive where they tell me. I cut that crap out ASAP. I tell them if its not in the app I don't go there. I am 100000% on the lookout for scams. 

I agree that there is really no way a driver could see the scam OP got hit on. Long trips are not unusual, and if there is a stop in another city, we have no way to verify what the next location is. 

I guess the only right answer is if, at the 'middle stop' the next stop is the original address you can either refuse the ride, or call Uber support (lol sure). I guess the SAFE answer is end the ride, hope passenger is not bigger than you and they leave your car peaceably.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

so lets recap:
1- we don't ever know how long a trip is going to be until we actually make the pickup or talk to the rider- we may or may not get the greater than 45 minute warning at the request (a few times I didn;t -and Uber confirmed that does happen) and even so greater than 45 minutes and 4 hours are 2 entirely different things
2- we never know what the second stop is until we complete the first or talk to the rider
3- the only confirmation tool we have is verify the rider's name , pickup location, and stop/destination
4- we never really know how much the trip is going to cost until we complete it
5- and now we have established we never really know if we are going to get paid for a trip from Uber until the money is deposited in our account
6- and if we try to contact Uber by phone or message, they may or may not help us at all
7-So tell me why are we doing long trips again? Sounds like - How big do you like to gamble?, Gamble big =win or loose big, gamble small,= win or loose small.- I will go with small !

I will give New Jersey Hub and the review board another week,-- my last message from the review board was wait one more week, this after they have reviewed it 4 times already!, REMEMBER MARCH 15th !!!!!!- and then I will proceed with small claims suit/ arbitration, accordingly....... it's time already.


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## ntcindetroit (Mar 23, 2017)

This is called Rider Fraud by Uber. They did send Driver the waybill before they know they are not able to process this fare? Who is responsible for the waybill?


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

ntcindetroit said:


> View attachment 313947
> 
> This is called Rider Fraud by Uber. They did send Driver the waybill before they know they are not able to process this fare? Who is responsible for the waybill?


This came a week later at least, I learned from the uber representative on the call line, the rider created the account the day before, and they believe it was for the express purpose of getting a free ride by claiming rider fraud?, pointing out he waited a week to claim fraud? bottom line again Uber should have paid PERIOD, they asked for me to perform the service which I did 100% following their instructions on their app, don't ask if you aren't going to pay! Who's the million dollar company again? filters, filters, filters.- The truth is every representative I have talked to on the phone or via email cannot answer me why they haven't paid yet, and all agree that it was 100% an authorized ride in which I had NO intentional wrong doing (at least 4 of them) -- they all end up submitting it to a review board or an escalation team with strong recommendations for them to pay, and then nothing happens. The point is you have absolutely NO way of talking to the review board or escalation team in person or by phone, and short of driving 2 and a half hours to seacaucus new jersey to a hub which may or may not help --that's it.


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

ntcindetroit said:


> This is called Rider Fraud by Uber. They did send Driver the waybill before they know they are not able to process this fare? Who is responsible for the waybill?


Drivers are the providers, not Uber. They just process payment. Any time a credit card is used and the card holder claims fraud with the credit card issuer the transaction is reversed. Since DRIVERS are actually the provider, drivers are the ones that the payment is reversed on. Be thankful it happened before you got paid. If it happened after then you would owe uber for that money. Remember, you get paid the entire fare (See your 1099) uber then takes its fee and sends you the balance. This process pisses me off to no end. I really can't see how this is legal but it is what it is.

I have no control over what uber charges pax or what they take as their fee and my gross income is severely inflated. In Hawaii drivers must pay excise tax on GROSS receipts yet we have no control over what that amount is. Sometimes I get $10 of a $20 total fare and other times I get $10 on a $30 fare. I pay on the total fare.

Please be clear, YOU DO NOT WORK FOR UBER. YOU ARE THEIR CUSTOMER. You pay them to use their app to link you with riders and process payments. Customers scam YOU not Uber. YOU need to wise up and protect yourself from scammers. There is no discrimination. If you aren't comfortable, end the ride. Just have a non discriminatory reason for ending the ride. Them adding a leg where they aren't in the car...good reason.

I won't take rides unless the account holder is in the car. Period. I don't care if uber okays it. I'm not okay with it. Even Webcam would show billed person not in the car. That's enough for card holder to deny the charge. "It wasn't me"


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

NotanEmployee said:


> Drivers are the providers, not Uber. They just process payment. Any time a credit card is used and the card holder claims fraud with the credit card issuer the transaction is reversed. Since DRIVERS are actually the provider, drivers are the ones that the payment is reversed on. Be thankful it happened before you got paid. If it happened after then you would owe uber for that money. Remember, you get paid the entire fare (See your 1099) uber then takes its fee and sends you the balance. This process pisses me off to no end. I really can't see how this is legal but it is what it is.
> 
> I have no control over what uber charges pax or what they take as their fee and my gross income is severely inflated. In Hawaii drivers must pay excise tax on GROSS receipts yet we have no control over what that amount is. Sometimes I get $10 of a $20 total fare and other times I get $10 on a $30 fare. I pay on the total fare.
> 
> ...


No you are incorrect, as Uber words it I am a driver PARTNER, ie. subcontractor, not a customer



Andrew R said:


> No you are incorrect, as Uber words it I am a driver PARTNER, ie. subcontractor, not a customer


They Hire me as a subcontractor for their customer the rider



Andrew R said:


> No you are incorrect, as Uber words it I am a driver PARTNER, ie. subcontractor, not a customer
> 
> 
> They Hire me as a subcontractor for their customer the rider


What you bring out even more confirms my point though, why take the long trips if we have such a poor guarantee of getting paid for it?

Taking riders for someone else who is paying for it happens all the time, ie. she is too drunk please take her home, ie. please pick up my son from school and take him to practice, ie. my dad pays my uber bill for my college gift because he just wants me to be safe. Only about 50% of the time is the named person actually in the car in my college town.

The point again is if Uber want's us to keep making them rich especially by doing these long trips, they need to do a better job of guaranteeing we get paid for what they ask us to do.


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

I find it interesting that you are arguing with yourself but let's be clear



Andrew R said:


> They Hire me as a subcontractor for their customer the rider


You are not a subcontractor. You are an independent contractor. They are different.

An independent contractor is a business owner. As business owners we pay uber to use their app and to process payments. You'll see when you get your 1099 at the end of the year and find out that your gross that you earned is almost double what uber paid you. Take that to an accountant. They will explain it to you.

Really, I understand your anger and frustration. Really, I do. Uber used all laws to their benefit when creating this service. There are many things wrong with it in many ways but THEY are FOLLOWING THE LAW to their advantage. It's totally legal and you have 0 claim. You can go pay a lawyer to tell you this or you can let it go because being angry about it only hurts you. Learn from this experience. You can choose to be more aware and not let it happen again or you can choose to no longer use the uber driver app.

I hope you let this go soon, you'll be better off psychologically doing so.


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## Robkaaa (Nov 25, 2015)

Very fishy situation. I have over dozen trips over $500. I have couple trips over $1k. For all of those trips it took 48hours to clear the payment. Never had an issue. 
On the other hand I've had multiple issues with $50-$70 trips. Riders claimed they didn't take riders. In all cases I've provided dashcam footage.
P.S. your body language speaks for itself.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Incorrect -The essence of independent contractor implies that I am Andrew's car service getting rides on my own - I "wear" the uber emblem and uber gets the rides through their software app asking me to perform the services hence subcontractor. I used to work for a flooring Business known as TF andrews. They would get the customers through their store front or "app" - charge the customer for the installation, and pay me to install it for them based on items or services performed, I was a subcontractor.-

Regardless how we agree or disagree on this point, - that's not why I made this video or blog.

Thank you all so much for confirming 100% again why it is such a risk to take the long trips, right or wrong, and that's my point exactly.... "don't take the long trips...."

As far as my case is concerned, I know it's a long shot, and uphill battle, but I have NOTHING to loose. Small claims court in Seacacus NJ will cost me $45 to file online, and I will make a family trip and visit Carlo's bakery for my day in court. I REALLY want to see if a small claims court Judge will think it is okay to work 8 hours providing a service per an agreement and not get paid ANYTHING????! Especially by a multimillion dollar company, who almost no one really loves!-- just ask around and see!- Who knows maybe they will pay before then,, I am not counting on it. This is all part of the warning I served them if they continued to refuse to pay, Social media, is free, and powerful, and if at the very least I can prevent I.e. some young college person trying to make some side money from getting nailed like me, GREAT.- Just look at the amazing response It has already generated! and you know what, I am thrilled at that and mission accomplished!- Just Maybe someone like you might read this or watch the video, and protect themselves in future- or even better maybe Uber might reconsider their approach and decide to protect the drivers more and guarantee payment on properly performed jobs, when drivers follow the app's instructions.- especially if they realize some drivers will refuse long distance trips because of this type scenario, (apparently I am not the only one! I have been told by other drivers)- Thanks to all!


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

.



Andrew R said:


> As far as my case is concerned, I know it's a long shot, and uphill battle, but I have NOTHING to loose. Small claims court in Seacacus NJ will cost me $45 to file online, and I will make a family trip and visit Carlo's bakery for my day in court. I REALLY want to see if a small claims court Judge will think it is okay to work 8 hours providing a service per an agreement and not get paid ANYTHING????! Especially by a multimillion dollar company, who almost no one really loves!-- just ask around and see!- Who knows maybe they will pay before then,, I am not counting on it. This is all part of the warning I served them if they continued to refuse to pay, Social media, is free, and powerful, and if at the very least I can prevent I.e. some young college person trying to make some side money from getting nailed like me, GREAT.- Just look at the amazing response It has already generated! and you know what, I am thrilled at that and mission accomplished!- Just Maybe someone like you might read this or watch the video, and protect themselves in future- or even better maybe Uber might reconsider their approach and decide to protect the drivers more and guarantee payment on properly performed jobs, when drivers follow the app's instructions.- especially if they realize some drivers will refuse long distance trips because of this type scenario, (apparently I am not the only one! I have been told by other drivers)- Thanks to all!


If it's not a hassle to you then you have nothing to lose! I wish you the best of luck. If it works please report back as so many uber drivers would love to know the exact process that worked! ?


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Robkaaa said:


> Very fishy situation. I have over dozen trips over $500. I have couple trips over $1k. For all of those trips it took 48hours to clear the payment. Never had an issue.
> On the other hand I've had multiple issues with $50-$70 trips. Riders claimed they didn't take riders. In all cases I've provided dashcam footage.
> P.S. your body language speaks for itself.


Really,? What my honest to goodness nervousness making a you tube video for the first time bodylanguage ,Wow I am glad your not my driver or judge, talk about stereotyping or prejudging someone!



NotanEmployee said:


> .
> 
> 
> If it's not a hassle to you then you have nothing to lose! I wish you the best of luck. If it works please report back as so many uber drivers would love to know the exact process that worked! ?


Absolutely, it will be my pleasure.

This is their Last response via screenshots, I hope they are in order. SEE, again I have NOTHING to hide, and NOTHING is fishy- They are in order 1-4


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

and those screen shots were in response to my email:contesting their decision below in which I explained everything in detail. the 5th time.



Apr 3, 2019, 8:08 AM









====================================================================================================


​

​












​
| Support 



 




​
​
​



​
 
​
 
​
 


​
 
​
 
​
 
​

NO RESPONSE NEEDED 
  A message from Uber 
Friday, March 15, 2019 at 3:58:12 PM · UberX
 
Thanks for reaching out about your payment, Andrew.

We've reviewed the details of this trip and our records indicate that this was an unauthorized trip. Examples of unauthorized trips include: deliberately increasing the time or distance of a trip, accepting trips without the intention to complete, including provoking riders to cancel, creating dummy rider or driver accounts for fraudulent purposes, and intentionally accepting or completing fraudulent or falsified trips.

As our records indicate that this trip was unauthorized, we are unable to pay-out on this occasion. Going forward, please only use the Uber partner app to accept and complete trips on authorized rides.

If you believe this decision has been made in error, please let us know with a brief explanation of the trip.

*Sent by Mariecris on Wednesday, April 3, 2019 at 4:09:33 AM*


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> How uber has refused to pay me for a long trip on March 15th from Endicott New York to Brooklyn New York, 7 hours 54 minutes, worth over $500 and now I have to sue them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


$524.00 becomes $262.00 if you deadhead back. Don't know any drivers who'd take ride so good luck.
#PowerToThePeople


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

Driver claims to receive fares for the trip.
Statement by Uber: : It was an Unauthorized trip. So We won't pay you.

Question(1) ... Who said that?
Answer: : A representative of Uber. A Human.
Question(2) So Who authorized the trip?
Answer: Uber app, in alternate, Uber software, a machine.
Question(3) Then, why Uber software can't be able to detect/protect this trip and why don't make it null?
Answer... Software developer didn't consider all possible scams request.
Question(4) So, Who is at fault?
Answer.... Uber Co-operation.

Uber software should have detected and prevented this kind of trip up front. This is their fault. We, drivers, have agreement with Uber for getting paid by each trip where each trip is guided by Uber App. This case is an evidence of there are weaknesses in Uber software. Rider has scammed Uber not to the driver. Even if Uber got scammed, Uber still needs to pay fares to the drivers for the trips.
If Uber let drivers have zero fares for trips, the contract agreement between Uber and drivers is a lie. That means Uber scams drivers and Uber have committed the crime.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Wildgoose said:


> Driver claims to receive fares for the trip.
> Statement by Uber: : It was an Unauthorized trip. So We won't pay you.
> 
> Question(1) ... Who said that?
> ...


THANKYOU, you are a Genius ! finally common sense reason! - IT IS JUST THAT SIMPLE!

If I ever get to the point where I decide it is a good idea to drive 8 hours in some sort of ill conceived scam attempt to falsify a dummy rider for the purpose of a CHANCE of collecting $500 illegally or fraudulently, from a company who is paying me that every week almost for the last 6 months for honest services, please shoot me now! (bugs and daffy ..."shoot me now...")


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> so lets recap:
> 1- we don't ever know how long a trip is going to be until we actually make the pickup or talk to the rider- we may or may not get the greater than 45 minute warning at the request (a few times I didn;t -and Uber confirmed that does happen) and even so greater than 45 minutes and 4 hours are 2 entirely different things
> 2- we never know what the second stop is until we complete the first or talk to the rider
> 3- the only confirmation tool we have is verify the rider's name , pickup location, and stop/destination
> ...





Andrew R said:


> THANKYOU, you are a Genius ! finally common sense reason! - IT IS JUST THAT SIMPLE!
> 
> If I ever get to the point where I decide it is a good idea to drive 8 hours in some sort of ill conceived scam attempt to falsify a dummy rider for the purpose of a CHANCE of collecting $500 illegally or fraudulently, from a company who is paying me that every week almost for the last 6 months for honest services, please shoot me now! (bugs and daffy ..."shoot me now...")


I thought you said you were donn with this and yet here you are

theee is nothing wrong with long trips except the deadhead back home. And there's nothing wrong with a two or three stop trip, even ithe last stop and the first stop is the same.And there is nothing wrong with a third party trip where someone orders the ride for someone else. I've done long trips and round trips and third party trips many times and have always been paid as agreed. So I'm going to ignore your warning. And continue to take trips like this

What I have never done and never intend to do (although I've been tempted) is to try to get paid for a trip with no passenger (or package) in my car even if that's what the customer seems to be asking me to do it.

In your case, (although as I've said, I'd be tempted to do what you did) if the customer wanted to compensate me for the dead miles and tolls for the ride home Id accept cash

Whether you accept this or not, you were wrong to "let the meter run" with no one in the car


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

One problem I do see....two weeks ago I purchased a lot of shoes online (I live on Maui so certain shoes are hard to come by) I needed a pair fast and the more I buy at once the better my chances of finding one that fits. Anyway, the purchase goes through without issue. 3 days later zappos informs me that my credit card denied it after the fact. I called my cc company and they flagged it as fraud. In my case I authorized the purchase and had zappos resubmit the charge...all was good.

If this happens with a long ride...we are screwed as services are already provided and we cannot contact the customer. I'm sure uber does not contact them either. CONSUMER protection laws are not business friendly. Businesses have to write off bad debt every year. I would talk to your accountant and see if you can write it off as bad debt.


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

So for Lyft my rate card indicates a max rate of $300 (upstate ny). I'm pretty sure Uber is the same.


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## Ignatowski (Mar 23, 2019)

Any passenger can dispute anything: they can call Uber and say "I didn't take that trip. It wasn't me, man!" Uber needs to decide: "what is best for Uber?" My guess is that they look at "trusting the rider" and stiffing the driver as the option with lower risk to Uber's brand. 

If the passenger maintains to their bank/credit card that they didn't order the ride, and Uber really wants to go toe-to-toe with VISA/Mastercard, then Uber would need to be prepared to prove that the service was provided to the customer. If Uber were a shoe store, it might provide the signed credit card recepit. In this case, Uber could use the driver's videos and receipts to show that the driver really did make the drive. And Uber could even prove that there were really were three people in the back of the car at the time. 

But Uber can't even guess who those three people were, or prove that they were legally receiving a paid service on behalf of "John" the rider app user. Even if the whole conversation between pax and driver was caught on dashcam, then Uber can say that the three people knew the correct destination, and knew the name of the person who booked the ride. Those _are_ the normal ways drivers can verify a passenger, but those are not standard ways of proving legal identity.

Imagine if you run a hotel with its own Rolls Royce shuttle limo. The limo won't back up, so you called an auto repair shop. Your doorman comes in and says "I gave the limo to the guy from the shop." And you say "what guy? The shop says they haven't sent anybody over yet." And the doorman says "he said he was from the shop. I didn't recognize him, but then he described how the limo won't shift into reverse, so I knew he was really from the shop, so I gave him the keys." Basically, the "song and dance" that Uber has us do to verify pax doesn't really meet a legal bar for anything.

I would guess that any pax can dispute any ride, and that Uber would decide that it's not worth contesting. The most they would do is deactivate the rider account that ordered it. Even if their "cut" of the fare was $400, that isn't enough to pay for their legal team to do much. I think the takeaway is that every single ride has an element of risk: the passenger might go nuts and start cutting-up your seats; or claim you were intoxicated; or do something which causes you not to get paid. Normally this is OK, because each ride payment is small, and the chances of bad things happen on any one ride are small. But the bigger the pay, the higher the risk.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Kind of, not really. Pax can dispute stuff but Uber usually has enough data to figure out what happened if they want to. GPS logs and such. In any case none of that matters because pax fraud/pax disputes is not the problem here.

Driver screwed up doing an empty trip in his lust for dead mileage pay. If he hadn't done that, he woulda gotten $250 out of Uber even if pax had successfully scammed Uber and none of this would be happening, no issues.

Driver's error gave Uber legal cover to deem whole trip "unauthorized" and they yoinked the whole pay because they can. Probably still charged customer a tidy amount and kept 100%.

Driver is out of his element, doesn't understand what kind of crooks he's dealing with. Tried to scam an internationally renowned team of super-scammers and their computer by himself. Lolol!

The system knew the call was bogus and probably also knew driver would take the bait after monitoring his previous activities. If you can think of the most devious possible thing that could be happening, that's probably what Uber is doing.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> The nearest hub to me is almost 3 hours away. --I sent a registered return receipt letter April 8th( they signed for it on the 12th) with a notice of intent =to that hub in Secaucus New Jersey, detailing everything with copies of all my receipts and screen shots, giving them 5 days to respond,.. guess what, STILL no response --I will have to travel there for my day in court, and plan to charge them for that and a hotel stay.. I have tried everything ! Letter attached below.:
> 
> Andrew R
> My address, phone number ,dob .
> ...


My argument in court would be that Uber styles itself as the drivers' agent. One of the duties that Uber performs and we pay them their fees for is customer invoicing and processing including payment method verification. Uber doesn't get to have it both ways - they don't get to both be responsible for this and get paid by us for doing it, yet somehow not responsible and able to pass responsibility onto us when they get it wrong and a fraudulent pax slips through their net.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

Andrew R said:


> The nearest hub to me is almost 3 hours away. --I sent a registered return receipt letter April 8th( they signed for it on the 12th) with a notice of intent =to that hub in Secaucus New Jersey, detailing everything with copies of all my receipts and screen shots, giving them 5 days to respond,.. guess what, STILL no response --I will have to travel there for my day in court, and plan to charge them for that and a hotel stay.. I have tried everything ! Letter attached below.:
> 
> Andrew R
> My address, phone number ,dob .
> ...


IMPORTANT
@Andrew R , tell me that you have opted out of arbitration as a driver within 30 days of signing up.

If not, you'll need to begin arbitration with Uber. (Don't know how that process works.)



Andrew R said:


> You have to have a valid credit/ debit card attached in order to book the ride,










Step #1: Load $10 onto a prepaid card like this and get a burner phone.
Step #2: Take a $700 Uber ride using a burner email account because $10 is cheaper than Amtrak or whatever.
Step #3: Repeat.



The Gift of Fish said:


> My argument in court would be that Uber styles itself as the drivers' agent. One of the duties that Uber performs and we pay them their fees for is customer invoicing and processing including payment method verification.


Agree - but it's my understanding that the TNC eats the cost when a passenger fraudulently uses the platform. Am I wrong? Have people had fares taken away because of a passenger fraud?



IR12 said:


> $524.00 becomes $262.00 if you deadhead back.


Where is this math from? With what gas guzzler? Most cars it would be a tank of gas at most.



Andrew R said:


> Examples of unauthorized trips include: deliberately increasing the time or distance of a trip
> (or)
> intentionally accepting or completing fraudulent or falsified trips.


I surmise that one of these there is the big answer that is being used to decline this.

Uber confirmed that the rider just showed up as a new rider and (checking again) used a fraudulent pay method, right? However, regardless, the deadhead was a red flag.
They may have also cast assumption you were in collusion with the fraudulent passenger(s).


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

"Where is this math from? With what gas guzzler? Most cars it would be a tank of gas at most"

I think he's saying that would be the income for the one way trip, versus the return trip.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Andrew R said:


> No you are incorrect, as Uber words it I am a driver PARTNER, ie. subcontractor, not a customer
> 
> 
> They Hire me as a subcontractor for their customer the rider
> ...


He is your big problem:

Legally, for federal tax purposes, Uber does not pay us. We actually pay Uber a fee/commission for each contract that we complete.

Read that again slowly. Uber does NOT legally pay you, you pay Uber for their services.

You, as a driver, are a customer or end-user that pays for services.

This is why you are bearing the cost of the fraud.



NotanEmployee said:


> Drivers are the providers, not Uber. They just process payment. Any time a credit card is used and the card holder claims fraud with the credit card issuer the transaction is reversed. Since DRIVERS are actually the provider, drivers are the ones that the payment is reversed on. Be thankful it happened before you got paid. If it happened after then you would owe uber for that money. Remember, you get paid the entire fare (See your 1099) uber then takes its fee and sends you the balance. This process pisses me off to no end. I really can't see how this is legal but it is what it is.
> 
> I have no control over what uber charges pax or what they take as their fee and my gross income is severely inflated. In Hawaii drivers must pay excise tax on GROSS receipts yet we have no control over what that amount is. Sometimes I get $10 of a $20 total fare and other times I get $10 on a $30 fare. I pay on the total fare.
> 
> ...


You are 100% correct on this matter. OP does not get it yet, he will/may at tax time.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

No matter how we disagree on the legal aspects of what Uber can get away woth, one fact becomes abundantly clear from what everyone is saying,Uber can decline to pay us for a trip and might get away with it. So once again, why do the long trips if that's the case? There is plenty of small trips in our cities to keep us busy all day long., and for the last time greed or lust had nothing to do with it at all. FROM PAST EXPERIENCE with Uber, if you don't complete more than 60 or something percent of the trip and try to complete it the whole trip gets cancelled . I had a rider one time change his mind enroute to his home 5 miles away, deciding to go to a bar 1 miles away and didn't want to change the destination, and the whole trip cancelled. Also, I have had phone calls which shut off the app and sitting in a running car on the phone in downtown Brooklyn projects area is just asking for trouble, people have had their entire car stripped in less time while in it!



DexNex said:


> He is your big problem:
> 
> Legally, for federal tax purposes, Uber does not pay us. We actually pay Uber a fee/commission for each contract that we complete.
> 
> ...


So if your correct. Why doesnt the rider pay me direct, or why does Uber get to cancel a trip, or as they word it decline payment, I didn't authorize them to do that?, both ways?


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Another couple questions to consider, when a rider purchases a ride what name does the credit card company pay to, last I checked not mine, also those lovely emails I recieve, "your pay statement is ready.." bearing the big uber logo whose is paying me exactly? Looks like Uber is. And the money that gets deposited in my debit account is not from all the individual riders, but from one company Uber. So let's follow the money trail , Rider needs ride, use app created by uber, rider credit card is on file on Ubers app, Ubers app charges riders credit card, Uber deposits part of that charge in my debit account, they may call it something else but that's a contractor sub contractor relationship period. Matter of fact Uber tells us it is in violation to recieve any independent cash payment from the rider directly, including tips, and we are not allowed anymore to change any of the trips destination or stops on our own, I have tried when a rider was too drunk to put the right address in to get home and it is completely out of our control. Exactly like that night , I followed the app and Ubers instructions perfectly. The rest is 100% out of my control, and Uber makes it that way ,hence they are "the leader", and I am the follower. And I followed their directions perfectly


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## Wasted_Days (Aug 15, 2017)

UberAdrian said:


> If you can think of the most devious possible thing that could be happening, that's probably what Uber is doing.


A motto to live by for _anyone_ doing rideshare in *any* capacity, those who aren't, surely get what they deserve.


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## Bus Bozo (May 25, 2018)

Andrew, you can have riders pay you direct. Just fulfill your state's requirements to get a commercial license, then get out there and find the clients who want private service. Oh, they'll likely want a luxury vehicle as well. My point being we pay Uber commission to bring us business.

We also give Uber the trust (I just gagged typing that) to ensure that rider payments are valid. But scammers will scam. Any retailer will tell you loss is part of the cost of doing business. I was under the impression, apparently mistaken, that Uber would still pay the driver.

IDK, maybe if you had done the right thing...ended the ride when the pax told you they weren't coming back, and driven to a safe spot to report this.....maybe you would have been paid for the first leg of the trip.

Edited to say....That "I was just following Uber's instructions" talk is BS. You run your business.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> No matter how we disagree on the legal aspects of what Uber can get away woth, one fact becomes abundantly clear from what everyone is saying,Uber can decline to pay us for a trip and might get away with it.
> 
> So if your correct. Why doesnt the rider pay me direct, or why does Uber get to cancel a trip, or as they word it decline payment, I didn't authorize them to do that?, both ways?


As has been said Uber dosent pay us; the passenger does. And we use Uber as the payment gateway and Ultimately the customers payment is approved by the bank that issued the customers card.

If the customer contacts their bank and claims that the transaction never happened or is fraudulent in some way, the bank initiates a chargeback for them. If Uber can prove the customer did receive the service they can fight this chargeback. If not the customers money is returned to them

In a past life I owned and operated a vacation rental business. I sent invoices to my customers and they paid me with their credit or debit cards. I used PayPal to send out my invoices and as my payment gateway. The customers payment flowed through my PayPal account to my bank account. On occasion the customer would complain to their bank that I didn't provide accommodations as promised and requested their money back ultimately, if I couldn't prove differently, the money would disappear from my PayPal account (or my account would show a negative balance)

By the way I use PayPal as my payment gateway for my private ride business. I don't use invoices; I have a PayPal card reader in the car). And if I was a victim of a scam like you were I'm sure PayPal would return the payment, just like Uber did for you

I see Uber working as a payment gateway, just like PayPal

The fact is that the customer is our customer and we are Uber's customer.

Once you get this concept you will understand what happened. I'm sure you won't like it, but you will understand


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Maybe maybe not, should've, would've, could've, all good points after the fact, meantime back at the ranch no one would think Uber would pay nothing later on after so many attepmts. And that's the point. Commission is exactly what a contractor pays a subcontractor per a former agreement based on a agreed percentage rate. They can't have it both ways, and I did do the right thing and contacted them immediately that night, to which they told me no worries you will get paid in 2 days

PayPal doesn't solicit the services they act as a gateway for and that's the key, people don't buy rides from me, Uber makes sure of that, they buy rides from uber that's their understanding regardless of what Uber says


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Andrew R said:


> Maybe maybe not, should've, would've, could've, all good points after the fact, meantime back at the ranch no one would think Uber would pay nothing later on after so many attepmts. And that's the point. Commission is exactly what a contractor pays a subcontractor per a former agreement based on a agreed percentage rate. They can't have it both ways, and I did do the right thing and contacted them immediately that night, to which they told me no worries you will get paid in 2 days


Deep breath.

You have it the wrong way around. Uber does not pay you a commission. YOU pay Uber. It's not a debatable fact. There is no "if".

Uber is a service provider that YOU contract with for sales leads, payment processing, insurance, marketing, and many other things. YOU have the option to do any, or all, of things on your own via operating a private town car service. Uber is simply someone that YOU pay to do these tasks for you.

Bequeathing responsibility to Uber by saying you followed their suggestions is irrelevant. All of this is ultimately your responsibility to manage. It's a difficult paradigm shift for most drivers to understand.

Long trip fraud has always been rampant in NY and NJ. You have to make the critical decisions and take full responsibility to protect yourself and your business interests.

I do have empathy for you. It's a very expensive lesson that you are learning and I appreciate you bringing it here for other drivers to observe.

Notice you are getting input from a bunch of well-seasoned drivers. We are not trying to "steer you wrong".


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> Maybe maybe not, should've, would've, could've, all good points after the fact, meantime back at the ranch no one would think Uber would pay nothing later on after so many attepmts. And that's the point. Commission is exactly what a contractor pays a subcontractor per a former agreement based on a agreed percentage rate. They can't have it both ways, and I did do the right thing and contacted them immediately that night, to which they told me no worries you will get paid in 2 days
> 
> PayPal doesn't solicit the services they act as a gateway for and that's the key, people don't buy rides from me, Uber makes sure of that, they buy rides from uber that's their understanding regardless of what Uber says


You seem like an intelligent guy who will get it sooner or later


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Andrew R said:


> Another couple questions to consider, when a rider purchases a ride what name does the credit card company pay to, last I checked not mine, also those lovely emails I recieve, "your pay statement is ready.." bearing the big uber logo whose is paying me exactly? Looks like Uber is. And the money that gets deposited in my debit account is not from all the individual riders, but from one company Uber. So let's follow the money trail , Rider needs ride, use app created by uber, rider credit card is on file on Ubers app, Ubers app charges riders credit card, Uber deposits part of that charge in my debit account, they may call it something else but that's a contractor sub contractor relationship period. Matter of fact Uber tells us it is in violation to recieve any independent cash payment from the rider directly, including tips, and we are not allowed anymore to change any of the trips destination or stops on our own, I have tried when a rider was too drunk to put the right address in to get home and it is completely out of our control. Exactly like that night , I followed the app and Ubers instructions perfectly. The rest is 100% out of my control, and Uber makes it that way ,hence they are "the leader", and I am the follower. And I followed their directions perfectly


What it appears to be, and what it legally is are two different things. I am guessing that you haven't filed your Federal income taxes as a rideshare driver.

Have no doubt about it. You are an end-user of a service that YOU pay for. You are in FULL control at all times.

You can always opt to use another service provider.

Also I have to call you out on the "no cash tips" line. You are dead wrong.


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

Did driver agree in the agreement withUber for the following category when we sign up?

(xx) At anytime, when Uber could not be able to collect the trip fares from riders, or in any activities of Fraudant or Scams from riders, Uber will not pay fares to drivers and driver partner could not claim fares from Uber for that kinds of activities.

Did we sign for that kinds of agreement? I think we didn't.


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## JoeysMama (Apr 13, 2019)

It's a shame you live so far away from a hub. I really hope you end up getting paid for this. If an attorney writes a letter on his letterhead it will be far more effective than just a letter from you. It's good though that you notified them with a letter of intent to pursue legal action. Perhaps you can go see an attorney and ask if he will write a letter on your behalf. Even if it costs you some money it might be well worth it. Good luck with this.


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

JoeysMama said:


> It's a shame you live so far away from a hub. I really hope you end up getting paid for this. If an attorney writes a letter on his letterhead it will be far more effective than just a letter from you. It's good though that you notified them with a letter of intent to pursue legal action. Perhaps you can go see an attorney and ask if he will write a letter on your behalf. Even if it costs you some money it might be well worth it. Good luck with this.


Plaintiff can write down whichever costs he spent on the case and claim every money (I think only exclusion is court filing fees.)


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> THANKYOU, you are a Genius ! finally common sense reason! - IT IS JUST THAT SIMPLE!
> 
> If I ever get to the point where I decide it is a good idea to drive 8 hours in some sort of ill conceived scam attempt to falsify a dummy rider for the purpose of a CHANCE of collecting $500 illegally or fraudulently, from a company who is paying me that every week almost for the last 6 months for honest services, please shoot me now! (bugs and daffy ..."shoot me now...")


My advice;

Tell Uber the pax asked you to return a package they took from the starting point by mistake.

Call Uber. Stay on the phone. Be nice, but politely refuse to hang up. Continue to commit to staying on the live call until the escalation team replies. NEVER HANG UP. 
If you get put on hold, pause the call and make a second support call and once the rep o continue the last call.

NEVER HANG UP


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

Diamondraider said:


> My advice;
> 
> Tell Uber the pax asked you to return a package they took from the starting point by mistake.
> 
> ...


If he do this, he is going to loose his chance of winning in court. Let him solve his problem legally.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

oldfart said:


> As has been said Uber dosent pay us; the passenger does. And we use Uber as the payment gateway and Ultimately the customers payment is approved by the bank that issued the customers card.
> 
> If the customer contacts their bank and claims that the transaction never happened or is fraudulent in some way, the bank initiates a chargeback for them. If Uber can prove the customer did receive the service they can fight this chargeback. If not the customers money is returned to them


I'm no legal expert, but based on the current system of driver rates (per mile/minute, detached from what the rider pays), I'd hazard a guess there's a reasonable argument that we are actually sub contracters doing jobs that Uber farms out to us, rather than working for the pax with Uber as a gateway.

In any event, the OP's point appears to be that in light of how the system currently works, it is too risky to take extremely long trips. The logic being, that if it ends up getting reversed, the driver stand to loose more. Are you saying you (and others) disagree with that premise or not?


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

So why do they run the acceptance ratio logarithm and reward high acceptance ratio drivers with more trips, once again that's the mark of someone in control



reg barclay said:


> I'm no legal expert, but based on the current system of driver rates (per mile/minute, detached from what the rider pays), I'd hazard a guess there's a reasonable argument that we are actually sub contracters doing jobs that Uber farms out to us, rather than working for the pax with Uber as a gateway.
> 
> In any event, the OP's point appears to be that in light of how the system currently works, it is too risky to take extremely long trips. The logic being, that if it ends up getting reversed, the driver stand to loose more. Are you saying you (and others) disagree with that premise or not?


Exactly, and if we all elect to not take those long trips, guess who looses out on a lot of money, they do, so maybe this whole sham will get changed, and Uber will decide to create a different platform in their app we use to protect us better


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Andrew R said:


> So why do they run the acceptance ratio logarithm and reward high acceptance ratio drivers with more trips, once again that's the mark of someone in control
> 
> 
> Exactly, and if we all elect to not take those long trips, guess who looses out on a lot of money, they do, so maybe this whole sham will get changed, and Uber will decide to create a different platform in their app we use to protect us better


How it appears, or how one wants to premise, does not matter. It is how it is. Your arguments are invalid.

Take responsibility for yourself and your business decisions, or join the 95%.

Best of luck.


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## smarternotharder (Apr 17, 2019)

for 3 straight years every Wednesday my money was in my account, 1 day it wasn't held an extra week now I cash out every few rides

hope op gets the money they EARNED


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Last they messaged me to wait 5 days for a response, I will wait 10, and then call again and hang on the phone as long as it takes to find out why. I will also inquire into arbitration, and if it is something they privately provide I will request it, . The very reason why no one likes uber I discovered is because they changed the rules how everyone plays so they are untouchable, so they think, and I am hoping a small claims judge will feel the same and judge by what it actually is not what they want to portray it as


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

Andrew R said:


> Last they messaged me to wait 5 days for a response, I will wait 10, and then call again and hang on the phone as long as it takes to find out why. I will also inquire into arbitration, and if it is something they privately provide I will request it, . The very reason why no one likes uber I discovered is because they changed the rules how everyone plays so they are untouchable, so they think, and I am hoping a small claims judge will feel the same and judge by what it actually is not what they want to portray it as


The thing here is most of the drivers think Uber is a gateway to connect the riders and drivers. It is not absolutely true. Uber/Lyft ridesahring business model is actually as follows.
(1) Uber finds its own royal riders, here is Uber customers. (no U/L drivers finds riders on their own.)
(2) Uber make agreement with drivers to transport its customers. ( so drivers are called contractors, the contract is between Uber and driver partners only )
(3) Uber's customers pay Uber for service fees. ( No riders pay drivers for transportation fees)
(4) Then, as agreement between Uber and driver partners, Uber pays drivers for fees ( as per mileage and time. no more no less.)
(5) Uber creates a rating system to evaluate its contractors ( drivers partners), and let its customers (riders) evaluate the drivers. When customers don't like the drivers partners (when the rating is lower than certain value), Uber revokes the contract by deactivate the drivers.
(6) Drivers also evaluate Uber's customers (riders) by rating. This is just for Uber's benefit, not for driver's benefit, not to provide some morons for its service.
(7) Riders don't need to provide ID or whatsoever to be legit, customers just need to provide payment methods. 
(8) But for the drivers, they need to provide IDs, valid insurance, valid registration and also need an eligible cars to meet with Uber's customers (riders) satisfactions.

This is the business model of Uber/Lyft and U/L are not gateway between drivers and riders.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Andrew R said:


> Incorrect -The essence of independent contractor implies that I am Andrew's car service getting rides on my own - I "wear" the uber emblem and uber gets the rides through their software app asking me to perform the services hence subcontractor. I used to work for a flooring Business known as TF andrews. They would get the customers through their store front or "app" - charge the customer for the installation, and pay me to install it for them based on items or services performed, I was a subcontractor.-
> 
> Regardless how we agree or disagree on this point, - that's not why I made this video or blog.
> 
> ...


Why are you not suing the rider?

Do you have a dashcam?


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

Andrew R said:


> So if your correct. Why doesnt the rider pay me direct, or why does Uber get to cancel a trip, or as they word it decline payment, I didn't authorize them to do that?, both ways?


Payment processors can take money from your account at any time for charge backs. Go read the Square agreement or any other payment processor.



Andrew R said:


> So why do they run the acceptance ratio logarithm and reward high acceptance ratio drivers with more trips, once again that's the mark of someone in control


We aren't saying the way the business is set up is fair and just. We are just letting you know the way it IS set up. Normally we, as drivers, would set the price we charge riders (since this is OUR gross pay anyway) and uber would get the fee we agree to through a contract. Then we would pay uber the fees. Uber wants it's fee up front as dealing with collections, with so many prior employees who don't have a clue how being an independent contractor works, would be astronomical for them.

They could make simple changes that would help drivers really understand. On our pay statements they should have the gross amount of EARNINGS. Show us the gross, show us the Uber Fees we pay and show us the NET after we pay them. In the app, each trip clearly says under the You Receive portion "your earnings are always calculated the same way. On everry trip you provide, you earn your base fare, plus time and/or distance rates for the length of the trip, plus applicable tolls, fees, surge/Boost, and promotions. to see your rates any time, see Fares in the menu." This statement alone suggests that what we earn is the amount they pay us, yet the 1099 at the end of the year has us earning the gross of what the passenger paid. There literally is nothing anywhere on any part of the uber platform that suggests the gross is what the passenger paid until you get your 1099. THIS IS THE PROBLEM! Every other company I have contracted with my 1099 was exactly what the company paid me. They charged their fee to their customer and then paid me for the service I provided. No hidden bull$hit anywhere.

whats worse is there are many institutions that base payments, benefits, etc. on GROSS income. Our gross income is highly inflated because uber can charge passengers whatever they want yet I still get the same base+miles+time. On a 20 mile trip i get the same $30 while uber can charge the passenger anywhere from $40 to $90 for it! This inflation is MY GROSS INCOME. We are also unable to negotiate the rate that we pay uber for its services. it should be a flat rate, any miscalculation on their part of the up front pricing, the driver should pocket not uber. If they want to charge the passenger whatever they want so they can capitalize on profits then they shouldn't be telling us what the passenger paid and we shouldn't have to claim that fee as our gross wages.

I see many threads on the employee/independent contractor complaint as well as complaints like OP has stated and complaints that uber is under paying us but THIS is the biggest problem and nobody seems to complain about it because most do not understand how it affects them or what it means or even that it is happening.


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## SatMan (Mar 20, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> Last they messaged me to wait 5 days for a response, I will wait 10, and then call again and hang on the phone as long as it takes to find out why. I will also inquire into arbitration, and if it is something they privately provide I will request it, . The very reason why no one likes uber I discovered is because they changed the rules how everyone plays so they are untouchable, so they think, and I am hoping a small claims judge will feel the same and judge by what it actually is not what they want to portray it as


Don't wait 10 days...6 maybe....but not 10!!!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberAdrian said:


> Kind of, not really. Pax can dispute stuff but Uber usually has enough data to figure out what happened if they want to. GPS logs and such. In any case none of that matters because pax fraud/pax disputes is not the problem here.
> 
> Driver screwed up doing an empty trip in his lust for dead mileage pay. If he hadn't done that, he woulda gotten $250 out of Uber even if pax had successfully scammed Uber and none of this would be happening, no issues.
> 
> ...


If the app holder was not on the trip, then whether he drove back empty or with the "fraudulent" rider is immaterial. Unless the phone that ordered the ride was in the car they can't know that.

If the phone was in the car then how is it fraud unless the phone was stolen. And in that case Visa or MC should be on the hook if it was reported in a timely fashion as stolen OR Uber, if their app does not have appropriate safeguards.

If my card is stolen I'm not on the hook foe unauthorized purchases. But if the card is present and has a chip, neither is the merchant.

Seems like info on phones should be the responsibility of the phone owner, the app maker, or VISA/MC, not the merchant.

Does anyone know if the law has caught up with phones? Guessing not.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Dammit Mazzacane said:


> Agree - but it's my understanding that the TNC eats the cost when a passenger fraudulently uses the platform. Am I wrong? Have people had fares taken away because of a passenger fraud?


There have been some reports of Uber taking back fares or not paying them, claiming pax fraud as the reason. Indeed, if you look at the screenshot of the trip detail posted by the OP, Uber is claiming rider fraud for this fare takeback.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Andrew R said:


> Last they messaged me to wait 5 days for a response, I will wait 10, and then call again and hang on the phone as long as it takes to find out why. I will also inquire into arbitration, and if it is something they privately provide I will request it, . The very reason why no one likes uber I discovered is because they changed the rules how everyone plays so they are untouchable, so they think, and I am hoping a small claims judge will feel the same and judge by what it actually is not what they want to portray it as


I've been hung up on by uber support, btw. And Lyft.


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## FloFocus (Apr 23, 2019)

Yulli Yung said:


> As a driver with over 10,000 rides there's something fishy about your post. I get the feeling that there is a lot more to this story than you are telling us.


Can you expound on why this seems fishy to you? Otherwise, for you to arbitrarily just say that seems like you're just trolling, and that's not really welcomed here in this forum. This is supposed to be a supportive community. As drivers, we take hits from Uber as well as the customers. The last thing we need to do is attack each other.


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## BillC (Mar 5, 2017)

UberBeemer said:


> This is bad. Clearly, the customer paid them. I can see a day or two to verify, but this is crazy. You should document this in writing, with screenshots of ride details, and submit to your local states attorney's consumer fraud division. Maybe local news, too, if they have reporters that run these stories.


I especially agree with contacting local news. If the news broadcast has a "consumer protection/fraud" reporter who regularly covers things like this, all the better. The last thing Uber wants is yet more bad press being seen as the big bad evil company who won't pay the poor hapless driver who did nothing wrong for an exceptionally long and expensive run.


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

FloFocus said:


> Can you expound on why this seems fishy to you? Otherwise, for you to arbitrarily just say that seems like you're just trolling, and that's not really welcomed here in this forum. This is supposed to be a supportive community. As drivers, we take hits from Uber as well as the customers. The last thing we need to do is attack each other.


Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it impermissible.


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> If the app holder was not on the trip, then whether he drove back empty or with the "fraudulent" rider is immaterial. Unless the phone that ordered the ride was in the car they can't know that.
> 
> If the phone was in the car then how is it fraud unless the phone was stolen. And in that case Visa or MC should be on the hook if it was reported in a timely fashion as stolen OR Uber, if their app does not have appropriate safeguards.
> 
> ...


There are some play rules between CC issued Bank and Business Z, when stolen CC card involved.
(1) Mr. A lost his CC, he didn't inform CC issued Bank about he lost his CC.
(2) Mr. B found Mr.A's CC somewhere. He attempted to use it. He bought things either in person or bought them ON Line.
(3) A weeks later, Mr. A just noticed unauthorized purchased was made by his CC.
(4) Mr. A informed his CC issued bank.
(5) Bank void the transaction, Mr.A didn't need to pay for unauthorized purchase.
(6) CC issued bank was reimbursed money back from the Business Z. ( CC Bank deduct money when they pay out other transactions.)
(7) Finally, Business Z lost their merchandised goods.

Uber is a business that is dealing with CC cards, giftcards, Debit Cards. They have to have some rules such as having more infos about their customers, not allowing fake name, fake addresses, not accepting prepaid card. If they don't, the problem is Uber. They can't do the business on the rules of " Oh. Customer denied to pay for fares, so we won't pay you (the drivers).

Uber wants to keep its reputation and has no time to resolve this small matter on the court. I am sure Uber legal team will agree to pay the driver if he doesn't go to court. This amount is nothing to Uber. But for the Uber CS, this amount is beyond his/her payroll.


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## kc ub'ing! (May 27, 2016)

Long trips are the biziz-omb! Ima keep taking em. Over 6k rides and Uber hasn’t screwed me yet. Just 3 rides at $250+ but pay was available immediately. I’m a cash out daily kinda guy.

I suggest the rest of you cats listen to OP. He seems to have his shit together. Not to mention, more long rides for me!


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## FloFocus (Apr 23, 2019)

DexNex said:


> Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it impermissible.


@DexNex I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I asked this person to explain what is fishy. I didn't just attack them for attacking someone else. It's kind of wreckless and irresponsible to say things arbitrarily without backing them up or giving examples that illustrate your point is my point, and that type of behavior doesn't foster a positive or helpful community. Does that make sense?


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## BillC (Mar 5, 2017)

Spider-Man said:


> I feel bad for you man, that stings hope you win. But for next time you get an Out of Town Trip, this is not legal what im saying But i would ask to see there phone to see what Uber is charging them. then Say ill do the ride on my own time Minus the tax so they don't have a reason To hate you . then that -25% that would of went to uber could be your return trip fee . i Live in vegas and i have done this 4x Two to Pahrump 1 to laughlin and the other to Barstow. All cash 100% to me. only way i do an out of town trip to make it worth it.


Good plan to snag the cash. The only problem is that when you're driving off app for cash, you're also off Uber's insurance coverage should something happen. If your personal insurance company gets the idea that you were driving for anything other than pure pleasure, you're on your own. And you can be damn sure that if your pax is injured, they're going to tell their insurance or a lawyer that you were transporting them for cash, and their insurance/lawyer will tell your insurance. How many ways can you spell "you're fcuked"?



NOXDriver said:


> I constantly have passengers ask to pay with cash or just drive where they tell me. I cut that crap out ASAP. I tell them if its not in the app I don't go there. I am 100000% on the lookout for scams.


As a n00b, I have given a ride for cash twice, and both times it worked out ok with me getting paid and no other incidents. I know better now and reading this thread was a good reminder/reinforcement to never transport outside the app.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> How uber has refused to pay me for a long trip on March 15th from Endicott New York to Brooklyn New York, 7 hours 54 minutes, worth over $500 and now I have to sue them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Remember that you can end the trip at any time. It would have helped your case if you had ended the trip as soon as the pax got out, instead of driving all the way back empty.

But based on what you say in the video about the pax and their pickup location, I definitely would have profiled them and declined the ride in the first place. I once rolled up to a pickup on the side of a highway. It was a brand new SUV still with paper plates on it, parked up with flashers on. A young guy with dreadlocks came up to my car and got it. He said that he had run out of gas. The destination in the app was the next town a short distance away. But instead of the expected gas station, it was a small strip mall.

"Oh, wait", the guy says, "Did I put in the wrong destination? Snap....". I told him to change the destination in the app. He messed around for a few minutes saying he didn't know how to do that. I told him that I could not continue the ride unless he input the correct destination in his app.

He finally input a destination - a town 190 miles up the freeway. Nuh-uh. If you run out of gas on a freeway, do you want to (a) be taken to the nearest gas station or (b) abandon your car and be driven 190 miles away.

I ended the ride and asked him to get out of the vehicle. He did and I got paid the $15 fare that was due up to that point.

Bottom line: if something feels not right with a rideshare pax, then it is not right.



Fuzzyelvis said:


> I've been hung up on by uber support, btw. And Lyft.


IME they only hang up on you if you swear at them. Did you drop an F-bomb on Rohit?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> I'm no legal expert, but based on the current system of driver rates (per mile/minute, detached from what the rider pays), I'd hazard a guess there's a reasonable argument that we are actually sub contracters doing jobs that Uber farms out to us, rather than working for the pax with Uber as a gateway.
> 
> In any event, the OP's point appears to be that in light of how the system currently works, it is too risky to take extremely long trips. The logic being, that if it ends up getting reversed, the driver stand to loose more. Are you saying you (and others) disagree with that premise or not?


I'm saying I've done several long trips and I know other drivers that have too. And we have all been paid the money we were due

I understand what the op is saying but his long ride is different. I always end the ride when the passenger(s) gets out of my car. He didn't
He drove over 200 miles without a passenger in his car and that ain't right He got scammed and he fell for it..... isn't greed one of the seven deadly sins i think the good sisters taught me that 65 years ago

So I do disagree with the op. I see no reason to avoid long rides... except for the dead miles to get back home


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Andrew R said:


> Last they messaged me to wait 5 days for a response, I will wait 10, and then call again and hang on the phone as long as it takes to find out why. I will also inquire into arbitration, and if it is something they privately provide I will request it, . The very reason why no one likes uber I discovered is because they changed the rules how everyone plays so they are untouchable, so they think, and I am hoping a small claims judge will feel the same and judge by what it actually is not what they want to portray it as


You really need to read the copy of the Terms of Service you accepted when you started driving. So much of this is covered there. You have no standing in court.

Here is some from mine...

*1. They don't control you.*

2.4 Your Relationship with Company. You acknowledge and agree that Company's provision to you of the Driver App and the Uber Services creates a direct business relationship between Company and you. Company does not, and shall not be deemed to, direct or control you generally or in your performance under this Agreement specifically, including in connection with your provision of Transportation Services, your acts or omissions, or your operation and maintenance of your Vehicle. You retain the sole right to determine when and for how long you will utilize the Driver App or the Uber Services.

*2. You claim about payments from pax going to Uber and therefore Uber is responsible is also wrong.*

4.1 Fare Calculation and Your Payment. ... You: (i) appoint Company as your limited payment collection agent solely for the purpose of accepting the Fare, applicable Tolls and, depending on the region and/or if requested by you, applicable taxes and fees from the User on your behalf via the payment processing functionality facilitated by the Uber Services; and (ii) agree that payment made by User to Company shall be considered the same as payment made directly by User to you....

*3. Oh yeah, that fraud thing...its in there too.*

4.3 Fare Adjustment. Company reserves the right to: (i) adjust the Fare for a particular instance of Transportation Services (e.g., you took an inefficient route, you fail to properly end a particular instance of Transportation Services in the Driver App, technical error in the Uber Services, etc.); or (ii) cancel the Fare for a particular instance of Transportation Services (e.g., User is charged for Transportation Services that were not provided, in the event of a User complaint, fraud, etc.). Company's decision to reduce or cancel the Fare in any such manner shall be exercised in a reasonable manner.

*4. And uh, don't say they didn't warn us. (Their all caps, not mine. Must be really important).*

9.2 Disclaimer of Warranties. ...COMPANY AND ITS AFFILIATES FUNCTION AS AN ON-DEMAND LEAD GENERATION AND RELATED SERVICE ONLY AND MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS, WARRANTIES OR GUARANTEES AS TO THE ACTIONS OR INACTIONS OF THE USERS WHO MAY REQUEST OR RECEIVE TRANSPORTATION SERVICES FROM YOU, AND COMPANY AND ITS AFFILIATES DO NOT SCREEN OR OTHERWISE EVALUATE USERS. BY USING THE UBER SERVICES AND DRIVER APP, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU MAY BE INTRODUCED TO A THIRD PARTY THAT MAY POSE HARM OR RISK TO YOU OR OTHER THIRD PARTIES. YOU ARE ADVISED TO TAKE REASONABLE PRECAUTIONS WITH RESPECT TO INTERACTIONS WITH THIRD PARTIES ENCOUNTERED IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OF THE UBER SERVICES OR DRIVER APP.NOTWITHSTANDING COMPANY'S APPOINTMENT AS THE LIMITED PAYMENT COLLECTION AGENT OF YOU FOR THE PURPOSE OF ACCEPTING PAYMENT FROM USERS ON YOUR BEHALF AS SET FORTH IN SECTION 4 ABOVE, COMPANY AND ITS AFFILIATES EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM ALL LIABILITY FOR ANY ACT OR OMISSION OF YOU, ANY USER OR OTHER THIRD PARTY.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

FloFocus said:


> Can you expound on why this seems fishy to you? Otherwise, for you to arbitrarily just say that seems like you're just trolling, and that's not really welcomed here in this forum. This is supposed to be a supportive community. As drivers, we take hits from Uber as well as the customers. The last thing we need to do is attack each other.


I think we all think there is something fishy here. That's not an attact on the op.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

I don’t think there’s anything fishy. It’s a very straightforward situation. OP used poor judgement doing the empty ride back and handed Uber a reason to screw him on a silver platter. What’s fishy about that? Seems like a pretty straightforward amateur move situation.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

UberAdrian said:


> I don't think there's anything fishy. It's a very straightforward situation. OP used poor judgement doing the empty ride back and handed Uber a reason to screw him on a silver platter. What's fishy about that? Seems like a pretty straightforward amateur move situation.


It's the passengers that did the fishy thing


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

UberAdrian said:


> I don't think there's anything fishy. It's a very straightforward situation. OP used poor judgement doing the empty ride back and handed Uber a reason to screw him on a silver platter. What's fishy about that? Seems like a pretty straightforward amateur move situation.


But if the issue was the empty ride back, I think they would have just adjusted it to half or something.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

reg barclay said:


> But if the issue was the empty ride back, I think they would have just adjusted it to half or something.


Hahahahaha!!! If they weren't a bunch of evil, incompetent, bottom feeding demons they would have ya. I've repeated this over and over in this thread and I'll say it one more time.

He would have gotten the 250 from Uber if he had ended the ride in Brooklyn. They adjusted it to zero because they can. Uber only cares about they legally can and can't get away with, not what's right lol. Read your contracts more carefully and learn your local laws and things will a lot more sense.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

Andrew R said:


> How uber has refused to pay me for a long trip on March 15th from Endicott New York to Brooklyn New York, 7 hours 54 minutes, worth over $500 and now I have to sue them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would you be able to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission?


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

Details from your agreement with them......I encourage everyone to not only read but understand what they agreed to.

"Unless we indicate to you otherwise, for each Ride, the Rider will pay an amount that includes the Fare, applicable Tolls, applicable fees retained by us, and applicable taxes and surcharges, as well as the Service Fee described in Paragraph 4.4 below (collectively, the "Rider Payment"). *You appoint us as your disclosed limited payment collection agent solely to accept the Rider Payment from Riders via the Uber Services' payment processing functionality, and the Rider Payment to us (acting as your agent) is treated the same as if that Rider paid you directly for that Ride.* The Rider Payment is the only payment that will be made to you by a Rider for a particular Ride. By accepting a Ride, you indicate your agreement to charge the Rider Payment at the amount recommended by us as your agent."

Areas bolded were done so by me to highlight things people might not see.


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

What's the max rate for NYC drivers?

If the OP is an upstate NY driver his max fare is capped at $300. Should have ended the ride when all the riders got out, and negotiated a cash tip upfront if you were concerned about the loss from the empty return. Chances are the riders said well lets add a second stop back home and you can get paid for both ways, knowing the payment source was going to bounce anway.


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## Spider-Man (Jul 7, 2017)

BillC said:


> Good plan to snag the cash. The only problem is that when you're driving off app for cash, you're also off Uber's insurance coverage should something happen. If your personal insurance company gets the idea that you were driving for anything other than pure pleasure, you're on your own. And you can be damn sure that if your pax is injured, they're going to tell their insurance or a lawyer that you were transporting them for cash, and their insurance/lawyer will tell your insurance. How many ways can you spell "you're fcuked"?
> 
> As a n00b, I have given a ride for cash twice, and both times it worked out ok with me getting paid and no other incidents. I know better now and reading this thread was a good reminder/reinforcement to never transport outside the app.


Thats why i mentioned its not legal what im saying. Its a risk. its up to the reader to decide if the risk is worth the reward.


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## melusine3 (Jun 20, 2016)

oldfart said:


> I guess you assumed that the rider was paying you for the ride back home to compensate you for the dead miles. He must know that he wouldn't find a driver willing to do the long ride unless he made an arrangement like this
> 
> I would have assumed the same thing.
> 
> ...


They don't just assume you're going to keep the app running for the return trip home. My first really long distance ride, the rider commiserated with me over the shitty compensation, but his company was paying for the ride. No tip. You'd better believe I never took a long distance ride after that. Riders don't care about the driver's compensation. Not at all. They only love the cheap ride.


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

melusine3 said:


> They don't just assume you're going to keep the app running for the return trip home. My first really long distance ride, the rider commiserated with me over the shitty compensation, but his company was paying for the ride. No tip. You'd better believe I never took a long distance ride after that. Riders don't care about the driver's compensation. Not at all. They only love the cheap ride.


Before you start a really long distance ride which is going to have a lot of dead miles back, ask the rider for compensation for the unpaid miles, gas and tolls to get you back home. If they are unwilling, cancel -> trip would be unprofitable or whatever that option is.


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## RandoRider (Mar 1, 2019)

I’m a lowly rider but have enjoyed this thread mostly due to the thoughtful and intelligent conversation. 

But I have a question- is this a thing? I live downtown and one of the dreaded min fare riders (I always tip) but do live in a city where friends live in the suburbs. 

Say for whatever reason I call an Uber and friend lives (this scenario seems really extreme so keeping it simple) to a place 45 minutes away where I know Uber likely doesn’t exist so you won’t catch a ride back. Do people say “I’ll put “home” as location so you’re paid to drive back alone? That seems odd to me. I’d at best offer cash as kindness if he’s willing but can’t get my head around paying for the drive back through the app.


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## Bubsie (Oct 19, 2017)

RandoRider said:


> I'm a lowly rider but have enjoyed this thread mostly due to the thoughtful and intelligent conversation.
> 
> But I have a question- is this a thing? I live downtown and one of the dreaded min fare riders (I always tip) but do live in a city where friends live in the suburbs.
> 
> Say for whatever reason I call an Uber and friend lives (this scenario seems really extreme so keeping it simple) to a place 45 minutes away where I know Uber likely doesn't exist so you won't catch a ride back. Do people say "I'll put "home" as location so you're paid to drive back alone? That seems odd to me. I'd at best offer cash as kindness if he's willing but can't get my head around paying for the drive back through the app.


They may tell you theyll do that, so you are sucked into taking the ride. They may even put the stop ino the app while you are watching.

But chances are very high theyll claim fraud as soon as they get out and youll be left with nothing.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

@Andrew R

I've asked you three times and three times you dodged the question. Do you believe Uber has been paid $700 for this trip? And do you think that has any bearing on whether you should be paid, or how much?


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Bubsie said:


> Chances are the riders said well lets add a second stop back home and you can get paid for both ways, knowing the payment source was going to bounce anway.


 No way. 0% chance of that. Anyone sophisticated enough to have the forethought and wealth to do something like that would definitely know to just just leave the tip in the app. They already know what the 1 way charge is up front, they can just tip the same amount. What kind of idiot would go out of their way to do some convoluted fake return trip shit? That's $3 moron stuff.

This pax obviously a seasoned scammer and knew how to game the system perfectly. He played the driver like a fiddle, and so did Uber when they gave him the call.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

UberAdrian said:


> He played the driver like a fiddle, and so did Uber when they gave him the call.


The only issue I have with Uber here is that they should allow the driver to see the entire trip at the start.


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## UberAdrian (May 26, 2018)

Coachman said:


> The only issue I have with Uber here is that they should allow the driver to see the entire trip at the start.


 I have a bigger issue with Uber here in that they gave him a trip that was invalid from the beginning, knowing damn well that they could only gain and driver could only lose. And that's fully aside from the general stupidity of allowing pax to ram $700 trips through the system on their first ride with no verifications.


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## RandoRider (Mar 1, 2019)

Exactly. You’d tip return trip either in cash or on app. There’s something about sending an Uber off without me in it that feels weird too. Like I’d be at risk of being screwed. 

I’m not knocking original poster just feels lots of weird could happen real quick when I say “au revoir” I’ll pay for this trip without being part of it. To h, me, third party the list goes on.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

RandoRider said:


> I'm a lowly rider but have enjoyed this thread mostly due to the thoughtful and intelligent conversation.
> 
> But I have a question- is this a thing? I live downtown and one of the dreaded min fare riders (I always tip) but do live in a city where friends live in the suburbs.
> 
> Say for whatever reason I call an Uber and friend lives (this scenario seems really extreme so keeping it simple) to a place 45 minutes away where I know Uber likely doesn't exist so you won't catch a ride back. Do people say "I'll put "home" as location so you're paid to drive back alone? That seems odd to me. I'd at best offer cash as kindness if he's willing but can't get my head around paying for the drive back through the app.


No it's not a thing. I know it's done; sometimes with the ok of the passenger and sometimes not. But I think most of us here don't do it and don't approve of others doing it

This would be no different than waiting 5 min but instead of "cancelling as a "no show" and collecting a cancel fee; I start the trip and complete it as if the passenger was in the ca

Clearly fraudulent


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> You have to have a valid credit/ debit card attached in order to book the ride, People decline payment all the time ,and sometimes wrongly, Vendors like Uber go to the dispute board of the financial establishment, and the if the purchaser cannot establish their claim the vendor gets paid period- Uber has 100% proof of a gps log showing my vehicle drove the route and performed the requested service, that took close to 8 hours to complete, that's alot of time to cancel a ride he knew at the first minute was going to cost $741


I've disputed multiple credit card transactions... I've won every time


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

UberAdrian said:


> I have a bigger issue with Uber here in that they gave him a trip that was invalid from the beginning, knowing damn well that they could only gain and driver could only lose. And that's fully aside from the general stupidity of allowing pax to ram $700 trips through the system on their first ride with no verifications.


What I take issue with is the idea that it's Uber scamming this driver rather than the scamming riders who set the whole thing up. I'm 99% sure that Uber hasn't even been paid for this trip. In that case the OP's lawsuit is aimed at the wrong party.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

NotanEmployee said:


> It appears the pickup and destination are the same. There are other threads where people did not get paid for this type of trip as well. It might have nothing to do with the length of the trip. I also appears you traced the exact route as well. Frankly, I don't think the uber app can properly figure out these types of trips. I will never do an exact round trip after reading forums. I will alter the route and ending address in some way.


SOMETIMES MY IDIOT PAX FORGET THEIR WALLETS. WE HAVE TO GO BACK FOR THEM AND THEN GO TO THE ORIGINAL DESTINATION. WITH "UPFRONT" PRICING, I DON'T KNOW IF I AM GETTING PAID FOR THE EXTRA MILES... SOMETIMES I SEEM TO, SOMETIMES NOT. TODAY WAS ROUGH... GOING TO BED, AND UP AT 3AM...


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> Did all that several times. Uber is calling it an unauthorised ride. You didn't read the whole post or video, and I have been calling and emailing them since March 15th , more than a month ago, and sent a registered return receipt intent to sue letter detailing everything with copies of receipts and screen shots alost 2 weeks ago to a hub, and still no money yet


Greenlight hub is not the correct address to mail that to.
You would have to send it to their corporate offices out in cali.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

This sucks. I thought it was only unauthorized if you go past their mile limit for the ride. I've heard after a certain mile limit the ride is supposedly force stopped. This is stupid because it's like they let you ride that long and then said "oh yeah this is past our mile limit" after the fact and left you full dry for the whole ride. At least if they cut the ride short you'd hopefully be guaranteed whatever they stopped you at.

That's why the only way to really do this stuff is to do it with something that doesn't involve using the app for much of the ride. You try to put all of those miles on the Uber app and it's subject to the technology gods for review and possible denial of payment. Uncle Sam and Uber already beat you up for a good bit of the money as is.


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

Retired Senior said:


> SOMETIMES MY IDIOT PAX FORGET THEIR WALLETS. WE HAVE TO GO BACK FOR THEM AND THEN GO TO THE ORIGINAL DESTINATION. WITH "UPFRONT" PRICING, I DON'T KNOW IF I AM GETTING PAID FOR THE EXTRA MILES... SOMETIMES I SEEM TO, SOMETIMES NOT. TODAY WAS ROUGH... GOING TO BED, AND UP AT 3AM...


If they paid you for the trip then they paid you for the miles. With Ubers up front pricing, they pad the fare to account for traffic or other route. The thing you need to not do very often is put excess miles to reduce ubers fee to $0. They don't like that. They want the rider to add a stop to the route so they can recalculate and charge them more. You see the rider pays the upfront fare, we get our mileage, time etc. And uber gets the rest. There are drivers out there that take long routes to get as much as they can and leaving uber with as little as possible. That is a game of Russian roulette that I'm not willing to play but if it's legitimate I have no issues.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

But like I said at the start and so many times afterward , and so many have established here 100 %, why take the long trips at all if there is NO guarantee your going to get paid. Not to mention most times you have to drive back empty. That's exactly what I thought for sure that night and I had no clue on how far I was going, and what the second stop was ubtil I progressed to the next step, I might have been gullible once but it won't happen again. And I am sure that somewhere out in virtual world there's a video teaching these scammers how to do this. So it is not a matter of if you get nailed but rather WHEN because if you keep doing long trips sooner or later a scammers is going to ping you, and general it's not worth the effort for a $5 OR $10 Trip, and even so you are only out 5 or 10 not hundreds. Listen I did quite a few long trips b4 this, one all the way to Canadian border, and I used to love it, but I love getting paid more!

We all can brag if we choose how astute we are and our Uber prowess, and how " that will never happen to me because...... so I will still take the long trips....." but the one truth I believe we have all established here is if a rider pulls a scam and frauds, you are going to have to fight for your money ,and it's a long shot to get it back

The other thing I have come to realize thinking back to all the phone calls to uber, they knew about this scam all along, that's why it got flagged immediately that night and the rep was just buffaloing me all along, I told him that night about the empty return trip to which he said, no problem. And each step of the next 2 weeks for review, it was never marked as rider fraud until the 3rd review,


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

the fraudulent thing they wrote you is weird. 

however i definitely have heard of the ride amount cap. i think in most places it's $300. what some people do is ask the pax to do two trips. like if its from los angeles to san francisco to make the first stop in a city in the middle, and then request a second ride which should go to you as you're the closest in proximity to the rider at request time.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Coachman said:


> @Andrew R
> 
> I've asked you three times and three times you dodged the question. Do you believe Uber has been paid $700 for this trip? And do you think that has any bearing on whether you should be paid, or how much?


I didn't see this question, but I thought I answered it on the post I made about credit card companies and my cable bill. Just because a credit card holder declines a charge doesn't mean it will stay that way, but honestly based on all the rest of the posts as to we are not subcontractors I am not sure if this even matters


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

UberAdrian said:


> And that's fully aside from the general stupidity of allowing pax to ram $700 trips through the system on their first ride with no verifications.


That's a good point. Pax should not be able to sign up and straight away use a credit card to request trips of a few hundred dollars. A certain time period, and maybe a certain amount of shorter trips, should be required first.


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

reg barclay said:


> That's a good point. Pax should not be able to sign up and straight away use a credit card to request trips of a few hundred dollars. A certain time period, and maybe a certain amount of shorter trips, should be required first.


Totally agree on that one!


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Andrew R said:


> I didn't see this question, but I thought I answered it on the post I made about credit card companies and my cable bill. Just because a credit card holder declines a charge doesn't mean it will stay that way, but honestly based on all the rest of the posts as to we are not subcontractors I am not sure if this even matters


Oh it matters.

It would be as if someone purchased something from you using Paypal as payment. And then that person canceled the transaction and ran off with your item. And you decided to sue Paypal. See how dumb that would be?


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## donurs (May 31, 2015)

reg barclay said:


> That's a good point. Pax should not be able to sign up and straight away use a credit card to request trips of a few hundred dollars. A certain time period, and maybe a certain amount of shorter trips, should be required first.


Glad you brought up this point. I've been reading this thread from the page 1 and wondering why Uber would "knowingly" allow a rider to request for a long trip almost immediately. That is a recipe for getting scammed.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Remember that you can end the trip at any time. It would have helped your case if you had ended the trip as soon as the pax got out, instead of driving all the way back empty.
> 
> But based on what you say in the video about the pax and their pickup location, I definitely would have profiled them and declined the ride in the first place. I once rolled up to a pickup on the side of a highway. It was a brand new SUV still with paper plates on it, parked up with flashers on. A young guy with dreadlocks came up to my car and got it. He said that he had run out of gas. The destination in the app was the next town a short distance away. But instead of the expected gas station, it was a small strip mall.
> 
> ...


If I call them it's usually on the ride home. After 30 minutes of arguing and telling me there is no manager available I think their next option is "lost connection." I'm driving and the phone is on hands free so it's not wasting MY time.

You don't need to swear to get them to hang up. Just keep talking long enough and don't back down. Sometimes you get somewhere but sometimes you get hung up on. Of course I just hit redial...


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> If I call them it's usually on the ride home. After 30 minutes of arguing and telling me there is no manager available I think their next option is "lost connection." I'm driving and the phone is on hands free so it's not wasting MY time.
> 
> You don't need to swear to get them to hang up. Just keep talking long enough and don't back down. Sometimes you get somewhere but sometimes you get hung up on. Of course I just hit redial...


I've never had them hang up on me when I haven't sworn. One time I was in the car on long drive so I phoned Rohit to ask him to resolve something. He would not, and there was "no supervisor available". I was driving and had nothing better to do so I thought I would see how long I could talk nonsense before he hung up on me.

-"I need to speak to your supervisor"
-"There is no supervisor here"
-"There must be. There's always a supervisor"
-"I don't see him"
-"So call him in the phone"
-"They don't have phones. They walk around the room"
-"Can you stand on your desk and see if you can see him? You'd get a better vantage point from up there"
-"That is not possible"
-"Of course it is. Stand on your desk and shout out to get his attention. Maybe flap your arms around a bit, too."
-"I cannot do that"
-"Can you sing? Maybe he would be attracted by the sound of song."
-"That is not possible"

Etc etc etc. Eventually I got bored and hung up on him.

Anyway, the only thing Rohit has ever been able to resolve for me is paying $4 no show fees. Anything else is too difficult. During my last attempt to report a child pax attempting to get a ride, Rohit told me that restarting my phone would stop me getting ride requests from children.


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

@Andrew R
Thanks for posting and starting a conversation on the topic. Lots of good info posted.

My total Monday morning quarterback comment is that this might have been avoided had you not discussed the ride over the phone with the account holder, but instead, had the conversation through messaging on app that Uber could review.

Andrew: So I am taking your relatives to Brooklyn and you ordered the ride for them? And you're not coming along?
John: Yes, that is correct.
(And if you didn't realize the stop and return trip until reaching Brooklyn, you should have messaged)
Andrew: Hey John. All 3 relatives got out at Brooklyn, but I see a return trip to Endicott. Is that compensation for my return trip driving empty?
Either John messages back "Yes" and you're golden, or he doesn't respond, then you should confirm stop, then immediately end trip.
(And NO, the ride will not cancel out, as you claim)

You would have been paid for the 1-way trip, and unfortunately have to deadhead back.
I think you got excited when you saw return trip on app, and tried to take advantage of an opportunity, justifying it by saying you were just following Uber's route.



Coachman said:


> The only issue I have with Uber here is that they should allow the driver to see the entire trip at the start.


IIRC, you can. After starting ride, slide the bottom box up and the Stops and Dropoffs are listed. Select each one for the address.



UberAdrian said:


> I have a bigger issue with Uber here in that they gave him a trip that was invalid from the beginning, knowing damn well that they could only gain and driver could only lose. And that's fully aside from the general stupidity of allowing pax to ram $700 trips through the system on their first ride with no verifications.


How do you know no verifications were made?
I'm hopeful that Uber puts a pre-authorized hold on the credit card before offering up the ride.


got a p said:


> however i definitely have heard of the ride amount cap. i think in most places it's $300. what some people do is ask the pax to do two trips. like if its from los angeles to san francisco to make the first stop in a city in the middle, and then request a second ride which should go to you as you're the closest in proximity to the rider at request time.


I checked the Uber Fares section for my location, and I see a min fare but no max fare.
If there is a max, I haven't found it.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Coachman said:


> Oh it matters.
> 
> It would be as if someone purchased something from you using Paypal as payment. And then that person canceled the transaction and ran off with your item. And you decided to sue Paypal. See how dumb that would be?


Again big difference is PayPal doesn't solicit for the items or services it provides a gateway for there is no related interest, but uber uses its name to get the rides and advertises including offering specials, they are not just a gateway no matter what they say


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

OP committed fraud when he chose to drop off the passengers in Brooklyn, then continued the ride for the 185 mile trip home. 

He's lucky he just lost the fare. He should have been deactivated.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Fozzie said:


> OP committed fraud when he chose to drop off the passengers in Brooklyn, then continued the ride for the 185 mile trip home.
> 
> He's lucky he just lost the fare. He should have been deactivated.


Where does uber say that's fraud if the verified rider asks you to do that. GET REAL, I Followed all the instructions I was given by uber app and verified rider done


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> Where does uber say that's fraud if the verified rider asks you to do that. GET REAL, I Followed all the instructions I was given by uber app and verified rider done


You tried to charge people for transportation home with nobody in the car. Unless you have proof that you were authorized to do that, you're screwed.

*DO YOU HAVE DASHCAM FOOTAGE OF THEM SAYING THAT? *

Good luck convincing a judge why you should get paid for driving an empty car. "But the app said..." doesn't work in court.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

why would you seriously think that keeping the trip open all the way back without the pax would be fine ?

if the pax tells you to jump off a cliff would you do that too ?


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Fozzie said:


> You tried to charge people for transportation home with nobody in the car. Unless you have proof that you were authorized to do that, you're screwed.
> 
> *DO YOU HAVE DASHCAM FOOTAGE OF THEM SAYING THAT? *
> 
> Good luck convincing a judge why you should get paid for driving an empty car. "But the app said..." doesn't work in court.


Again I didn't try to charge them anything, I never do , Uber does, Uber sets the rates, the pax buy the rides through uber, they knew he knew when he clicked accept it was going to cost him 700, I never knew how much or where to or 2 stop till moment of each 8 hours later and that's the giant hole in the gateway only logic, I don't get to set the rates, see up front if the ride is long short, or fishy, etc

The rider knew at the start and had 8 hours to cancel any part of the trip and of course didn't I would say that's 100% proof


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Andrew R said:


> How uber has refused to pay me for a long trip on March 15th from Endicott New York to Brooklyn New York, 7 hours 54 minutes, worth over $500 and now I have to sue them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You don't drive for lyft because "uber's doing right by you"

When you consider the fact that Uber pays you 1978 taxi rates, the least you can do is show them your loyalty.


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## Bus Bozo (May 25, 2018)

Hasn't this dead horse been beat enough? :confusion:


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Bus Bozo said:


> Hasn't this dead horse been beat enough? :confusion:


Agreed, moving on, last note, it is all here or on the video, read, watch, listen, maybe 2 times if needed , b4 writing anything, especially ignorant silly comments that show that you cannot read, watch, and listen well, thanks to all.
Again, "Don't take the long trips....... Unless you like loosing money"


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## Bus Bozo (May 25, 2018)

Best of luck Andrew!


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Keep us up to speed on this.

I think are wasting your time pursuing this but would like to be proven wrong


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

You have a number of experienced drivers come to the thread to explain what could or should have been done in this situation and OP dismisses them all as "ignorant, silly" people who "cannot read, watch and listen well."


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Coachman said:


> You have a number of experienced drivers come to the thread to explain what could or should have been done in this situation and OP dismisses them all as "ignorant, silly" people who "cannot read, watch and listen well."


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> Again I didn't try to charge them anything, I never do , Uber does, Uber sets the rates, the pax buy the rides through uber, they knew he knew when he clicked accept it was going to cost him 700, I never knew how much or where to or 2 stop till moment of each 8 hours later and that's the giant hole in the gateway only logic, I don't get to set the rates, see up front if the ride is long short, or fishy, etc
> 
> The rider knew at the start and had 8 hours to cancel any part of the trip and of course didn't I would say that's 100% proof


Uber receives a ride request and gives them an estimated price for the trip; Nothing is billed until after the trip is complete.

When you agree to take the ride, you agree to take them to a destination in consideration for variable mileage/time based payment; (referred to in app as "You Receive")

In return for brokering your ride and handling the billing, you agree to pay Uber a commission/fee; (referred to in app as "Uber Receives")

All earnings are contingent upon successful billing of the transaction. If you fail to heed the warning signs and end up a victim of fraud, you, as the business owner, end up eating that loss. If Uber doesn't receive any payment on the deal, the total amount received is ZERO, their commission is ZERO, and you, as the business owner, receive ZERO.

$0 Payment received = $0 for Uber and $0 for you.

You were scammed by a rider because of your negligence. If anything, file a police report to document the fraud and hope that police will catch, prosecutors will prosecute, and a jury will convict these people for scamming you. Hopefully your dashcam evidence will backup your story and prove sufficient to receive restitution upon conviction.

Overall, the odds of winning in this situation are slim/none, and you're better off cutting your losses, learning from the experience and moving on.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Coachman said:


> You have a number of experienced drivers come to the thread to explain what could or should have been done in this situation and OP dismisses them all as "ignorant, silly" people who "cannot read, watch and listen well."


No just those who ask the questions I already answered or suggest I did something fishy on purpose, to the rest thanks so much ,I feel well prepared for a day in court bcause of u all THANKS


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

Common sense us a real thing. I'm shocked at the lack of it in this let's blame everyone else society. You have no common sense and got screwed. Accept it and move on. One of the number 1 scams drivers use to try to get more money is NOT ENDING RIDES when the passenger gets out! You think because the account holder THAT'S NOT EVEN IN YOUR CAR adds 4 hours to your empty ride that you are entitled to it!? Go get a job because apparently you need someone with common sense telling you how to do your job. I'm so done with your blatant ignorance ✋


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Andrew R said:


> No just those who ask the questions I already answered or suggest I did something fishy on purpose, to the rest thanks so much ,I feel well prepared for a day in court bcause of u all THANKS


All I ask is that you do one thing... videotape your court hearing and post a copy of it here in this thread.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

NotanEmployee said:


> Common sense us a real thing. I'm shocked at the lack of it in this let's blame everyone else society. You have no common sense and got screwed. Accept it and move on. One of the number 1 scams drivers use to try to get more money is NOT ENDING RIDES when the passenger gets out! You think because the account holder THAT'S NOT EVEN IN YOUR CAR adds 4 hours to your empty ride that you are entitled to it!? Go get a job because apparently you need someone with common sense telling you how to do your job. I'm so done with your blatant ignorance ✋


Again what I said b4 12 times


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## donurs (May 31, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I've never had them hang up on me when I haven't sworn. One time I was in the car on long drive so I phoned Rohit to ask him to resolve something. He would not, and there was "no supervisor available". I was driving and had nothing better to do so I thought I would see how long I could talk nonsense before he hung up on me.
> 
> -"I need to speak to your supervisor"
> -"There is no supervisor here"
> ...


"Rohit told me that restarting my phone would stop me getting ride requests from children."
This is hilarious!!


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Andrew R said:


> Again what I said b4 12 times


Again the post is called "DON'T TAKE THE LONG TRIP" NOT uber did me wrong. Nothing anyone has said here has established you will get paid from uber if you do xxxxx so your payment can go away if a rider says, boo, do you want that to be 5 or 10 bucks or hundreds you decide, again READING, and LISTENING all important skills.



Andrew R said:


> Again the post is called "DON'T TAKE THE LONG TRIP" NOT uber did me wrong. Nothing anyone has said here has established you will get paid from uber if you do xxxxx so your payment can go away if a rider says, boo, do you want that to be 5 or 10 bucks or hundreds you decide, again READING, and LISTENING all important skills.


Thankyou you basically put 2 words together that contradiction each other, And you confirmed I didn't know or have a fishy or greedy intent

If it makes us feel better of course I made a mistake that night, duh...,but in pure innocence, or "ignoreance", but even if I didnt drive back mt I still wouldn't have gotten paid, especially based on what is being said


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Andrew R said:


> Again the post is called "DON'T TAKE THE LONG TRIP" NOT uber did me wrong. Nothing anyone has said here has established you will get paid from uber if you do xxxxx so your payment can go away if a rider says, boo, do you want that to be 5 or 10 bucks or hundreds you decide, again READING, and LISTENING all important skills.
> 
> 
> Thankyou you basically put 2 words together that contradiction each other, And you confirmed I didn't know or have a fishy or greedy intent
> ...


So much vitriol against other drivers from someone that has trouble screening fraudulent rides. Get over yourself.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I'm a little curious @Andrew R. You've declared you'll not be taking any long trips in the future. What if you get scammed on a short trip? Will you start a thread titled "Don't take the short trips?"


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Coachman said:


> I'm a little curious @Andrew R. You've declared you'll not be taking any long trips in the future. What if you get scammed on a short trip? Will you start a thread titled "Don't take the short trips?"


The point is scammers usually don't waste time on a short trip, it's not worth th effort


Coachman said:


> I'm a little curious @Andrew R. You've declared you'll not be taking any long trips in the future. What if you get scammed on a short trip? Will you start a thread titled "Don't take the short trips?"


REALLY, after 8 pages of post , and a video, that's your question? WOW!


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Andrew R said:


> REALLY, after 8 pages of post , and a video, that's your question? WOW!


I'm simply pointing out the absurdity of your OP.

Experienced drivers here have done thousands of long hauls without a problem. But based on your one unfortunate ride we're all supposed to forego long trips. Do you really think that makes sense?


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Coachman said:


> I'm simply pointing out the absurdity of your OP.
> 
> Experienced drivers here have done thousands of long hauls without a problem. But based on your one unfortunate ride we're all supposed to forego long trips. Do you really think that makes sense?


Your a big boy , you dec


Coachman said:


> I'm simply pointing out the absurdity of your OP.
> 
> Experienced drivers here have done thousands of long hauls without a problem. But based on your one unfortunate ride we're all supposed to forego long trips. Do you really think that makes sense?


Have fun storming the castle!


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## Taxi2Uber (Jul 21, 2017)

@Andrew R's logic and credibility goes out the window when he repeatedly says that,
_"... even if I didnt drive back [empty] I still wouldn't have gotten paid..."_
He is in denial or putting on an act.


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## Andrew R (Apr 20, 2019)

Taxi2Uber said:


> @Andrew R's logic and credibility goes out the window when he repeatedly says that,
> _"... even if I didnt drive back [empty] I still wouldn't have gotten paid..."_
> He is in denial or putting on an act.


Again WOW, amazing , and someone said that I wasn't getting insulted?, I put out an honest thread, people establish here that if I rider declines payment Uber has no responsibility to pay, and that's what you come up with? Beam me up Scott , there is very little intelligent life left here

Moderator, please close this thread to any new posts, it is done, I am done.If there is any new updates I will start a new thread

Remember this is just a warning. Just like don't cross the street without looking. Don't use a hairdryer in the bathrub. Etc. 
No one has established a secret or otherwise plan to guarantee Uber pays for any trip long or short, so why take a chance on loosing that much.


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