# Question-I am not a driver



## Mom82of2 (Nov 26, 2016)

At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


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## freddieman (Oct 24, 2016)

i wouldn't say kidnapping since your daughter is a willing participant. sneaking out at 1:30 in the morning paid for by a older male.....hmmmm. i think you should speak with a ur daughter and discipline accordingly.


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## Mom82of2 (Nov 26, 2016)

freddieman said:


> i wouldn't say kidnapping since your daughter is a willing participant. sneaking out at 1:30 in the morning paid for by a older male.....hmmmm. i think you should speak with a ur daughter and discipline accordingly.


Thanks captain obvious. I appreciate the lack of concern for the bigger question I asked for assistance with. According to the Uber legal terms, an account holder cannot set up transport for an unaccompanied minor. I am looking for someone that can help me on how to contact Uber about the policy violation in the hopes that maybe I can make it a little more difficult for the man to do this again. Not that my action will change his behavior but that maybe I can be an obstacle that will force him to at least not use Uber.


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## SibeRescueBrian (May 10, 2015)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


Good morning. I would suggest going to the Uber offices in Atlanta and reaching out to someone in person. Here is the information: https://www.uber.com/drive/atlanta/contact/


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


How do you know it was paid for by an older male account holder?


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## Mom82of2 (Nov 26, 2016)

I have the screenshot and text message thread where he set it up for her. She's 16 and obviously not making good decisions and is being influenced. Yes I know, that's my issue as a parent to deal with one on one with her but the other party should not be able to use this service for this purpose again now that the behavior is proven to exist.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Mom82of2 said:


> Thanks captain obvious. I appreciate the lack of concern for the bigger question I asked for assistance with. According to the Uber legal terms, an account holder cannot set up transport for an unaccompanied minor. I am looking for someone that can help me on how to contact Uber about the policy violation in the hopes that maybe I can make it a little more difficult for the man to do this again. Not that my action will change his behavior but that maybe I can be an obstacle that will force him to at least not use Uber.


You may be able to get uber to close one acvount, but they don't verify identities of account holders, so he can just use another credit card and open another.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Brian's suggestion above is about the only way to actually contact a living human being at Uber. Secondary texts to Uber often get escalated to someone who actually cares and has authority to do something, but they are not local...or even in the US. The Uber driver did violate Uber's Terms of Service, if indeed they knew your daughter is a minor, but I'm sure the driver is the least of your concerns. Both the driver and account holder would be easy for Uber to identify.

But I personally think any help Uber could give would be a really trivial annoyance in response to a BIG problem.

Alternate suggestions would be to contact the police (the behavior of the adult account holder is probably criminal) or Georgia's child protection agency. Either of those agencies could make life truly difficult for the adult male if they take an active interest.

Obviously there are bigger problems here than Uber can solve. Good luck.


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## Ray21 (Sep 2, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


I think honestly in this case the only problem in here is your daughter... In this case she use Uber, but she could use Lyft, Juno, a normal taxi or some one else picking her. Its better that the time that you are going to spend back and forward with Uber costumer support, you spent it trying to finding out whats going on with her. Maybe this is not the first time she jump out of that window... good luck.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Mom82of2 said:


> I have the screenshot and text message thread where he set it up for her. She's 16 and obviously not making good decisions and is being influenced. Yes I know, that's my issue as a parent to deal with one on one with her but the other party should not be able to use this service for this purpose again now that the behavior is proven to exist.


It wasn't clear from your first post that you got your daughter back after she "escaped"; now it is.

As others have said, this guy's access to Uber isn't the real problem. The prince is going to find a way to get to Rapunzel whether he sends an Uber for her, or a Lyft, a cab, whatever.


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## Mom82of2 (Nov 26, 2016)

There have been two helpful posts. Clearly there are some people that don't understand that the safety of children takes priority over making a buck. I am thankful my daughter is not smart enough to turn off her location services so I found her within 30 min. So nice to know that some have expressed true compassion where as others would rather blame the person identified as a child than the adult predator. Thank goodness nothing tragic happened to my kid.


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## Wifey1203 (Oct 26, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> There have been two helpful posts. Clearly there are some people that don't understand that the safety of children takes priority over making a buck. I am thankful my daughter is not smart enough to turn off her location services so I found her within 30 min. So nice to know that some have expressed true compassion where as others would rather blame the person identified as a child than the adult predator. Thank goodness nothing tragic happened to my kid.


I don't think they lack compassion here we are thankful your daughter is home safe, However what they are saying that it's Uber now it could be Lyft or another service or worst it could be a friend of his and then you would have no access to her but she is 16 you have to let her know the dangers in this and hopefully it won't happen again Uber will only deactivate that account then he will open another one. Uber is not the issue and I think you know this.


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## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


How old is your daughter? Under the age of 18, call the police, file a report, let the police contact Uber. Uber fully cooperates with the authorities and provides information.

Over the age of 18, it may become problematic, because legally she is an adult.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

I get it - I'm a driver. And I have 2 daughters. Mine are a little younger, but this is definitely on my mind. And it's scary. These days there is so much tragedy you worry more. Now I'm not here to take shots, but in many states (including my home state of Michigan) the age of consent is 16. I sincerely hope you your daughter can figure this out and come to an understanding.


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## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> I have the screenshot and text message thread where he set it up for her. She's 16 and obviously not making good decisions and is being influenced. Yes I know, that's my issue as a parent to deal with one on one with her but the other party should not be able to use this service for this purpose again now that the behavior is proven to exist.


She is 16, call the police, file a report. Uber will work with the police.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Mom82of2 said:


> There have been two helpful posts. Clearly there are some people that don't understand that the safety of children takes priority over making a buck. I am thankful my daughter is not smart enough to turn off her location services so I found her within 30 min. So nice to know that some have expressed true compassion where as others would rather blame the person identified as a child than the adult predator. Thank goodness nothing tragic happened to my kid.


Sorry you didn't get the answer you were looking for, but the truth is that Uber cannot prevent this man from doing it again, even if they wanted to. All he would have to do is create another Uber account using different details. And then there are the alternatives to Uber.

If it were me, I would contact the police and have them pick this guy up for child abduction. Maybe it would never get as far as a prosecution, but it would probably serve to scare the crap out of the guy and would probably be quite effective.


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## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> There have been two helpful posts. Clearly there are some people that don't understand that the safety of children takes priority over making a buck. I am thankful my daughter is not smart enough to turn off her location services so I found her within 30 min. So nice to know that some have expressed true compassion where as others would rather blame the person identified as a child than the adult predator. Thank goodness nothing tragic happened to my kid.


I am thankful to hear this bit of news. I hope you and your daughter have a very strong talk. I am not a parent and I cannot speak from experience. I am sure your first feeling was extreme relief and then you proceeded to let her have it. If it happens again, call the police. Remember, what you do in the first 24 hours is crucial.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

I'm father to a son and daughter.
I share your concern.
I'd go directly to the police and open a case.
I'd prosecute this as statutory rape.

I'd look into something just shy of kidnapping too, even tho that's across state lines.
I'd have by lawyer subpoena Uber as complicit in this statutory rape situation and try them for coercion.

May sound dramatic, but this dude's booty call is now totally identifiable and prosecutable through his illegal action using Uber against their terms of service to transport a minor.

I KNEW I should have gone to law school.


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## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I'm father to a son and daughter.
> I share your concern.
> I'd go directly to the police and open a case.
> I'd prosecute this as statutory rape.
> ...


Absolutely does not sound dramatic. You are a caring and protective father of your children.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

I miss being a teen. Great time of life - you're bulletproof, you're going to live forever and you know everything


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


Try an alarm system on your home.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

I'd advise against getting the police involved. Then your child is in the system. They may not find her to be the victim. Better to stay out of the system.


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## Ray21 (Sep 2, 2016)

OK.... LETS BE HONEST... I LIKE ALL THE SUPPORT TO THIS FATHER... I SEE POST ABOUT GO TO THE POLICE AND FILE A KIDNAPPING, ABDUBTING ETC.... BUT THE TRUTH IS NOBODY FORCE THIS GIRL TO DO ANY THING.. SHE JUMP OUT OF THAT WINDOW BY HER SELF, SHE ENTER THE CAR BY HER SELF AND SHE ACCEPT TO GO OR MEET BY THIS STRANGE MALE UBER ACCOUNT HOLDER BY HER SELF. 
IM SORRY FOR THIS FATHER AND I CAN IMAGINE WHAT HE FEEL AT THAT MOMENT.. OK FOR BEST GO TO THE POLICE SO THEY CAN HELP TO FIND THIS MAN BUT I THINK ALSO THE POLICE WILL TALK SERIOUSLY WITH YOUR DOUGHTER FOR MIS-BEHAVING.... AND ONCE AGAIN MAYBE THIS WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME... MAYBE AT THAT TIME THAT MALE COULDN'T PICK HER UP ON TH CORNER AS USUAL AND HE SEND A UBER FOR HER.... HOPE I AM WRONG.. GOOD LUCK.. ALL THE BEST WITH YOUR FAMILY


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

MSUGrad9902 said:


> I'd advise against getting the police involved. Then your child is in the system. They may not find her to be the victim. Better to stay out of the system.


She's a juvenile. Even if the authorities charge her with something, her file gets sealed on her 18th birthday.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

State of Georgia consent is 16. She'd likely be treated as an adult in anything over a misdemeanor.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

Ray21 said:


> OK.... LETS BE HONEST... I LIKE ALL THE SUPPORT TO THIS FATHER... I SEE POST ABOUT GO TO THE POLICE AND FILE A KIDNAPPING, ABDUBTING ETC.... BUT THE TRUTH IS NOBODY FORCE THIS GIRL TO DO ANY THING.. SHE JUMP OUT OF THAT WINDOW BY HER SELF, SHE ENTER THE CAR BY HER SELF AND SHE ACCEPT TO GO OR MEET BY THIS STRANGE MALE UBER ACCOUNT HOLDER BY HER SELF.
> IM SORRY FOR THIS FATHER AND I CAN IMAGINE WHAT HE FEEL AT THAT MOMENT.. OK FOR BEST GO TO THE POLICE SO THEY CAN HELP TO FIND THIS MAN BUT I THINK ALSO THE POLICE WILL TALK SERIOUSLY WITH YOUR DOUGHTER FOR MIS-BEHAVING.... AND ONCE AGAIN MAYBE THIS WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME... MAYBE AT THAT TIME THAT MALE COULDN'T PICK HER UP ON TH CORNER AS USUAL AND HE SEND A UBER FOR HER.... HOPE I AM WRONG.. GOOD LUCK.. ALL THE BEST WITH YOUR FAMILY


Help!!!!! I have fallen and I can't reach my caps lock key......


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## Ray21 (Sep 2, 2016)

shiftydrake said:


> Help!!!!! I have fallen and I can't reach my caps lock key......


Yes I forgot to cap lock, but there is more important thing in this threat to be worry about the caps lock.... grow up


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## SunnySonya (Oct 18, 2016)

As a mom of 4 daughters, I can assure you that your primary concern, and largest chance for successfully raising your daughter into adulthood lies in educating your daughter and guiding her behaviour. 
Good luck on trying to change/guide Uber's......or any other entity for that matter. 
Potentially dangerous situations lie around every corner.....as parents it is not our job to follow them to every corner and shield them from the danger, but to equip them to deal with the danger themselves.


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## GrinsNgiggles (Oct 11, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


As a mother of two girls, this is definitely something to be concerned about. But honestly this forum is not the place to get the answers. Contact Uber, contact the authorities. The person who set up the pick up is the problem and is who needs to be dealt with, not Uber nor the driver. Uber and the authorities will be Able to locate the account holder and handle the situation accordingly. Good luck. Raising teenage girls is not easy


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Ray21 said:


> OK.... LETS BE HONEST... I LIKE ALL THE SUPPORT TO THIS FATHER... I SEE POST ABOUT GO TO THE POLICE AND FILE A KIDNAPPING, ABDUBTING ETC.... BUT THE TRUTH IS NOBODY FORCE THIS GIRL TO DO ANY THING.. SHE JUMP OUT OF THAT WINDOW BY HER SELF, SHE ENTER THE CAR BY HER SELF AND SHE ACCEPT TO GO OR MEET BY THIS STRANGE MALE UBER ACCOUNT HOLDER BY HER SELF.


The legal system most often sees it differently than what you are portraying above.

She is a minor. The "older male" could be found as coercing and manipulating her and the Uber driver is, at the very least, breaking corporate policy and would be terminated. As an Uber driver, I am sincerely hesitant about picking up anyone that looks sixteen and traveling by themselves. Seeing someone who appears to be a minor AND is trying to climb into my car after climbing out of a window at one o'clock in the morning when there is a male's name on the requesting account...is an automatic cancellation and drive away. I'd probably honk really loud as I drove away in hopes someone in the house would wake up.


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## UberEsq (Oct 14, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


What can you do? Try being a parent and deal with your daughter.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

I am usually pretty straightforward and to the point...which means people tend to be offended what I have to say sometimes. In this scenario the OP comes across as someone I too would want to escape from from. When she didn't get the exact answers she wanted, she immediately went into aggressive, professionally offended mode.
There are way too many facts left unknown to play armchair judge, jury and executioner. She keeps saying "older male" that could be 17, 18, 105...we don't know. It may not even be a male at all. It could be a girl friend of hers (or 17 yo male friend) with access to a family member's uber account.

When people clearly stated the truth that simply calling uber won't fix this specific problem, she gets upset.

Here's the bottom line. Stop trying to have the world fix YOUR family problems. Talk to YOUR daughter, find out what the truth is, help TEACH HER not to make bad decisions. Be real with her, Don't come across with the judgy, preachy everything is somebody else's fault mentality. Accept some of the responsibility that the decisions she is making is partly to blame on your parenting short-comings.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

jp300h said:


> I am usually pretty straightforward and to the point...which means people tend to be offended what I have to say sometimes. In this scenario the OP comes across as someone I too would want to escape from from. When she didn't get the exact answers she wanted, she immediately went into aggressive, professionally offended mode.
> There are way too many facts left unknown to play armchair judge, jury and executioner. She keeps saying "older male" that could be 17, 18, 105...we don't know. It may not even be a male at all. It could be a girl friend of hers (or 17 yo male friend) with access to a family member's uber account.
> 
> When people clearly stated the truth that simply calling uber won't fix this specific problem, she gets upset.
> ...


LOL

I'm guessing jp isn't the parent of a minor female.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> LOL
> 
> I'm guessing jp isn't the parent of a minor female.


Then you would be guessing wrong. I have two children a boy and a girl.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

Kids are going to make bad decisions, this will never be stopped. We as parents need to help them minimize the mistakes they make. And when they do mess up, they need to be punished, but also talked to, (not talked at) to help them understand why these rules are in place. My wife and I are raising our kids to be RESPONSIBLE people. ie, every decision we make has a consequence. To accept responsibility for our own actions. Both good and bad.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Steven Ambrose said:


> How old is your daughter? Under the age of 18, call the police, file a report, let the police contact Uber. Uber fully cooperates with the authorities and provides information.
> 
> Over the age of 18, it may become problematic, because legally she is an adult.


Unfortinately for the OP age of consent in Georgia is 16...


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

I know it doesn't help, but I give about 20 rides a month to a young looking female with a male named account. College town. I don't ask for ID because they would be fake anyway.


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

The window part of the story is irrelevant if the driver does not see it.


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## Poopy54 (Sep 6, 2016)

Ray21 said:


> Yes I forgot to cap lock, but there is more important thing in this threat to be worry about the caps lock.... grow up


And you don't proof read your post and see all caps?


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## grayspinner (Sep 8, 2015)

I've got 4 teenagers (some of each sex) AND I was once a teenage girl . 

You will solve nothing by calling uber or the police or blaming anyone outside your home for this. 

What you need to do is work on your relationship with your daughter. You need to figure out what is going on with her that she felt a need to sneak out. Are your rules unreasonable? Are you unnecessarily strict? Are you inattentive as a parent? Is your daughter depressed or in need of mental health care? (a very common reason for engaging in risky and self destructive behavior). 

Your kid needs you to parent her & therapy is probably in order.


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## Do tell (Nov 11, 2016)

grayspinner said:


> I've got 4 teenagers (some of each sex) AND I was once a teenage girl .
> 
> You will solve nothing by calling uber or the police or blaming anyone outside your home for this.
> 
> ...


100% I agree


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## GrinsNgiggles (Oct 11, 2016)

grayspinner said:


> I've got 4 teenagers (some of each sex) AND I was once a teenage girl .
> 
> You will solve nothing by calling uber or the police or blaming anyone outside your home for this.
> 
> ...


New service... uberTherapy


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Let me tell you what would happen if a MAN of majority age illegally shuttled my teen under 18 year old daughter to a sexual liaison and I cought up with him.
No police involvement.
No reports
No evidence.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Let me tell you what would happen if a MAN of majority age illegally shuttled my teen under 18 year old daughter to a sexual liaison and I cought up with him.
> No police involvement.
> No reports
> No evidence.


I'm sure you are just speaking in relative terms, but in this specific scenario, we do not know if it was a "sexual liason". Too many unknowns.
As for your general statement...I can assure you at some point there would be police involvement...only YOU would be the one under investigation.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

jp300h said:


> I'm sure you are just speaking in relative terms, but in this specific scenario, we do not know if it was a "sexual liason". Too many unknowns.
> As for your general statement...I can assure you at some point there would be police involvement...only YOU would be the one under investigation.


Without a body or a weapon?
Lol.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Mom82of2 said:


> There have been two helpful posts. Clearly there are some people that don't understand that the safety of children takes priority over making a buck. I am thankful my daughter is not smart enough to turn off her location services so I found her within 30 min. So nice to know that some have expressed true compassion where as others would rather blame the person identified as a child than the adult predator. Thank goodness nothing tragic happened to my kid.


All most of us are saying is UBER doesn't care and that you're better off spending your time and energy on your daughter.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Without a body or a weapon?
> Lol.


I'm not even going to respond beyond this. MANY internet tough guys make the same claims... I _guess, _for some people_, _it is just fun to say it out loud. I'm not here to say you would or wouldn't commit murder... nor comment how manly or badass you are or are not. I guess that is for you to decide. But saying you would is just dumb. At best you're an internet blow hard. at worst, you're just a really dumb criminal.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

Twofiddy you are fooling yourself if you think you have the skills for a "communion" style hit.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

An alibi
No body of evidence
No weapon of evidence.
That's how you beat 1000 years of English inspired common law.

I'd do anything to protect my children.
Anyone who wouldn't isn't a man or woman of character.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

MSUGrad9902 said:


> Twofiddy you are fooling yourself if you think you have the skills for a "communion" style hit.


Do you know where it is that I come from?
You do not.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

So based on what I am reading: I personally should be in jail or buried in a swamp (with no evidence of my murder apparently)...or at a minimum, permanently have my life ruined by being classified a sexual predator.
Because over 20 years ago for 10 days, I was 18 and my girlfriend was 16 (My birthday is 10 days before hers) And yes, we were sexually active.
This happens quite a bit and the punishments for the males is very wrong in these cases. In the case of that girlfriend and I, we are still together to this day with our 2 beautiful children mentioned earlier.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

jp300h said:


> So based on what I am reading: I personally should be in jail or buried in a swamp (with no evidence of my murder apparently)...or at a minimum, permanently have my life ruined by being classified a sexual predator.
> Because over 20 years ago for 10 days, I was 18 and my girlfriend was 16 (My birthday is 10 days before hers) And yes, we were sexually active.
> This happens quite a bit and is very wrong in these cases. In the case of that girlfriend and I, we are still together to this day with our 2 beautiful children mentioned earlier.


She wasn't my daughter.


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

elelegido said:


> I miss being a teen. Great time of life - you're bulletproof, you're going to live forever and you know everything


I have to agree with you there, even though I enjoy it more when I disagree with you.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> She wasn't my daughter.


I didn't mean you and I specifically. But referring to the scenario you painted.
But if your daughter was in a similar situation, you would be willing to potentially rob her of a very happy and fulfilling life? Or if my wife's father felt the same as you?


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## Ray21 (Sep 2, 2016)

jp300h said:


> I am usually pretty straightforward and to the point...which means people tend to be offended what I have to say sometimes. In this scenario the OP comes across as someone I too would want to escape from from. When she didn't get the exact answers she wanted, she immediately went into aggressive, professionally offended mode.
> There are way too many facts left unknown to play armchair judge, jury and executioner. She keeps saying "older male" that could be 17, 18, 105...we don't know. It may not even be a male at all. It could be a girl friend of hers (or 17 yo male friend) with access to a family member's uber account.
> 
> When people clearly stated the truth that simply calling uber won't fix this specific problem, she gets upset.
> ...


Total agree..... teach your doughter to stop jumping out of the window....


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

jp300h said:


> I didn't mean you and I specifically. But referring to the scenario you painted.
> But if your daughter was in a similar situation, you would be willing to potentially rob her of a very happy and fulfilling life? Or if my wife's father felt the same as you?


You didn't hire a chauffeur to wisk your girlfriend away from home for sex, did you?
I have a good relationship with my daughter.
If she was dating I'd know it.
If she were dating an 18 year old at 16 I'd have the final word.
If it had been me as the father I'd have known you long before any monkey business could have gone down.
This is a religious, conservative family.
Don't do the deed if you don't want the shotgun wedding


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You didn't hire a chauffeur to wisk your girlfriend away from home for sex, did you?
> I have a good relationship with my daughter.
> If she was dating I'd know it.
> If she were dating an 18 year old at 16 I'd have the final word.
> ...


Obviously not too religious of a family. I'm pretty sure one of the commandments is Thou shalt not kill...which you admittly have no qualms about doing. I'm pretty sure there is not an * after the ...not Kill part saying "unless guy you don't like is having sex with your daughter"

Other than that. Good for you. I am happy that you have a good relationship with your daughter. That is the number 1 key in being a parent. I will NEVER subscribe to the mentality that I should "be my child's best friend". I think that is the stupidest parenting philosophy in the world. I am there to parent, guide, advise and if need be discipline... not be "cool dad". From what I have read from you, I feel that is something you and I CAN agree on.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

jp300h said:


> Obviously not too religious of a family. I'm pretty sure one of the commandments is Thou shalt not kill...which you admittly have no qualms about doing. I'm pretty sure there is not an * after the ...not Kill part saying "unless guy you don't like is having sex with your daughter"
> 
> Other than that. Good for you. I am happy that you have a good relationship with your daughter. That is the number 1 key in being a parent. I will NEVER subscribe to the mentality that I should "be my child's best friend". I think that is the stupidest parenting philosophy in the world. I am there to parent, guide, advise and if need be discipline... not be "cool dad". From what I have read from you, I feel that is something you and I CAN agree on.


Two things:
Stay away from my daughter


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Two things:
> Stay away from my daughter


Seeing as I am not in Charlotte, am happily married and have no desire to look elsewhere (let alone a girl who is young enough to be my daughter), I think it is safe to say there is no danger off our paths crossing in that regard.


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## Particle In A Box (Jul 24, 2016)

This was interesting...


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

jp300h said:


> So based on what I am reading: I personally should be in jail or buried in a swamp (with no evidence of my murder apparently)...or at a minimum, permanently have my life ruined by being classified a sexual predator.
> Because over 20 years ago for 10 days, I was 18 and my girlfriend was 16 (My birthday is 10 days before hers) And yes, we were sexually active.
> This happens quite a bit and the punishments for the males is very wrong in these cases. In the case of that girlfriend and I, we are still together to this day with our 2 beautiful children mentioned earlier.


It isn't a problem in KS.


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## PeterNorth (Apr 4, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> Thanks captain obvious. I appreciate the lack of concern for the bigger question I asked for assistance with. According to the Uber legal terms, an account holder cannot set up transport for an unaccompanied minor. I am looking for someone that can help me on how to contact Uber about the policy violation in the hopes that maybe I can make it a little more difficult for the man to do this again. Not that my action will change his behavior but that maybe I can be an obstacle that will force him to at least not use Uber.


Hate to tell you but he is right. Aside from that, Uber doesn't restrict much. I have picked up teens that use prepaid cards to create accounts and there is nothing I can do about it since they will just request another ride.

If your daughter wants to meet someone online (or wherever) and you don't want them to meet up then you probably should take away her phone.


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## SunnySonya (Oct 18, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> LOL
> 
> I'm guessing jp isn't the parent of a minor female.


I'm am the parent of FOUR females. I have raised 3 of them into adulthood, practically unscathed. The 4th is on the precipice of adulthood and there simply isn't enough room here to hold all the bragging I could do about her awesomeness. 
I agree with that post and said the same. 
What is it with parents wanting the world to take responsibility for their job, parenting??
The kid climbed out her window. 
On her own. 
And the parent thinks Uber has an issue?


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

SunnySonya said:


> I'm am the parent of FOUR females. I have raised 3 of them into adulthood, practically unscathed. The 4th is on the precipice of adulthood and there simply isn't enough room here to hold all the bragging I could do about her awesomeness.
> I agree with that post and said the same.
> What is it with parents wanting the world to take responsibility for their job, parenting??
> The kid climbed out her window.
> ...


The parent certainly has an issue. The kid has an issue. But don't think for a second that it excuses the Uber driver from their issue. Uber drivers shouldn't be driving unaccompanied minors.


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## darkshy77 (Sep 28, 2015)

Uber no different then a taxi... Account is paid if your daughter looks 18 she will ride. I have had Parents try to put their 7 to 10 year old in my car to take them to school without them. and I know I've had a million people just show up in my car I don't pay attention to where they came from I'm sure he was texting the account holder


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Simple solution is:
NEVER take a pax who isnt the account holder.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Yep did this once, turned out fine, but know I shouldn't have. It was my first night actually so was like whatever get in. It was the account holder's drunk buddy. The account holder was actually there when I picked up. I should have had him ride along. 

One other time that is questionable is I drove 10 miles to pick a girl up. I didn't age verify, but during chatting she mentioned she just got her learners permit. I'm like ??? in my head, we were already on the way. It was her name on the account as far as I know. It was dark out and I didn't really get a good look at her to judge age. So I don't know, I was still really new so hard to tell. 

All I know is I drove way out of my way to pick both of these riders up and to cancel means to dead head all the way back.


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## CrazyT (Jul 2, 2016)

jp300h said:


> So based on what I am reading: I personally should be in jail or buried in a swamp (with no evidence of my murder apparently)...or at a minimum, permanently have my life ruined by being classified a sexual predator.
> Because over 20 years ago for 10 days, I was 18 and my girlfriend was 16 (My birthday is 10 days before hers) And yes, we were sexually active.
> This happens quite a bit and the punishments for the males is very wrong in these cases. In the case of that girlfriend and I, we are still together to this day with our 2 beautiful children mentioned earlier.


And it doesn't help that the reverse isn't looked at the same. Over 20 years ago I got involved with a guy I worked with. That was mistake #1. Yes we were sexually active. The bad part was I was 21, he was 16. We kept working together and kept seeing each other, then his mom found out when she overheard some of his friends. She freaked out and threatened to have me arrested. She went to the local magistrate, magistrate talked to her son, and you know what he said? No case.

Of course while she was freaking out, the guy's dad was saying That's my boy! lol


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

negeorgia said:


> I know it doesn't help, but I give about 20 rides a month to a young looking female with a male named account. College town. I don't ask for ID because they would be fake anyway.


If true, yer playing with fire, my friend.


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## Uber Jason (Sep 9, 2016)

Well the uber driver that picked her up and gave her a ride did a big no no. You're not supposed to give rides to anyone under the age of 18. It is stated pretty clearly in the user agreement.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

circle1 said:


> If true, yer playing with fire, my friend.


Sugar baby... hey as long as she is 18.... is she?

I forgot I had one rider that was named "Robert" but ended up being a woman, not underage.... For all I know she was an escort... She said she didn't have any money in her acct but her BF or Fiancee did. Whatever, it was a nice ride to the hotel and she tipped 5 bucks.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

PeterNorth said:


> I have picked up teens that use prepaid cards to create accounts and there is nothing I can do about it since they will just request another ride.


Lawyers have told me that it's my responsibility to not give rides to minors. Now we may go round-and-round arguing law on here, but my question to you is; _*do you want to become a test case in court?*_


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

darkshy77 said:


> Uber no different then a taxi... Account is paid if your daughter looks 18 she will ride.


. . . When the account holder's name is male??


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

jfinks said:


> I drove 10 miles to pick a girl up. I didn't age verify, but during chatting she mentioned she just got her learners permit.


People in their 60's could get a learners permit. The only way to be safe is to ask for picture ID.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

circle1 said:


> People in their 60's could get a learners permit. The only way to be safe is to ask for picture ID.


Ya well she wasn't 60 lol. I mean with all the cuts in pay are we now having to check ID on all passengers after driving 10-15 minutes to pick them up and waiting 5 minutes for them to come out?

I drive to get there
Wait
They get in back seat, usually.
At night rarely do you get a good look at them to judge age.
Drive to destination
Drop off
Thanks and bye Felicia... lol Job done.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

jfinks said:


> Sugar baby... hey as long as she is 18.... is she?


Right, but I'm talking about asking pax for picture ID. Had an attorney give an opinion that we are responsible for adhering to Uber policy.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

jfinks said:


> Ya well she wasn't 60 lol. I mean with all the cuts in pay are we now having to check ID on all passengers after driving 10-15 minutes to pick them up and waiting 5 minutes for them to come out?


That just the thing these days . . . it's a legal grey-area. C.Y.A.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

circle1 said:


> That just the thing these days . . . it's a legal grey-area. C.Y.A.


Ya, and so are Child car seats. Way off topic here, are there discussions about car seats? I picked up a mom and her two young kids. Had to be 6 or 7. We weren't going far, literally across street and up road. Legally both should have been in car seats, but sorry I don't carry 1 car seat let alone 2...


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## SibeRescueBrian (May 10, 2015)

jfinks said:


> Ya, and so are Child car seats. Way off topic here, are there discussions about car seats? I picked up a mom and her two young kids. Had to be 6 or 7. We weren't going far, literally across street and up road. Legally both should have been in car seats, but sorry I don't carry 1 car seat let alone 2...


Yes, that IS off topic, but there are plenty of other threads that address car seats. You can use the search function in the upper right-hand corner of this forum to find them.

This is an excellent discussion so far, so let's all please keep it on topic. Thank you.


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## darkshy77 (Sep 28, 2015)

circle1 said:


> . . . When the account holder's name is male??


Nicknames all the time.... If Uber cared we get a picture of the pax. verify the name on the account verify destination you're done


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

I didn't read all 4 pages of responses. 

If I were in California Uber broke the law. I don't know Georgia law but I would still call police 
and report Uber for child endangerment. 

Some here will say it is the driver and not Uber. And I say that is bull excrement. In most, if not all states, Uber has a policy that a rider must be 18.

a. unless your daughter looks 24 the driver should have doubted she was 18. I just don't see 16 year old delinquents acting like a young woman at 1:30 in the morn. Put it on the driver!

b. It is likely your daughter has been previously turned down by Uber drivers who did the right thing. And Uber will have records of these instances. If so, Put in on Uber. 

Most here will say I am harsh on the driver who picked up your daughter. 

Evil rules when good men do nothing.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Steven Ambrose said:


> She is 16, call the police, file a report. Uber will work with the police.


Don't know you, but you really think Uber will care? They will work with police because they have to, not because they want to.

To the OP, Uber won't care.

Anybody here have a story where Uber worked with a driver to stop under 18 year old riders? Uber will send drivers to known and suspected under-age riders until they get sued or a legal order stops them.


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## me2 (Nov 6, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> There have been two helpful posts. Clearly there are some people that don't understand that the safety of children takes priority over making a buck. I am thankful my daughter is not smart enough to turn off her location services so I found her within 30 min. So nice to know that some have expressed true compassion where as others would rather blame the person identified as a child than the adult predator. Thank goodness nothing tragic happened to my kid.


Ok I'm glad you're child is ok but blaming uber for this is not helpful if you believe your child is beings stocked by a Predator go to the police and file a report they will contact uber to find out who contacted your child. Many people order ubers for other people so your child not being the accountant holder would not have caused concern also at 16 most drivers would not notice she was underage. You need to deal with your child and protect her from him. Sleep in her room if need be


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Is it illegal for a Cab to give a ride to a minor? My short research says it isn't. Uber is no different, it is just company policy. Uber and the driver didn't have any intent on committing a crime. Breaking company policy isn't criminal.


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## Grahamcracker (Nov 2, 2016)

I'd take it to a lawyer.


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## Ray21 (Sep 2, 2016)

Poopy54 said:


> And you don't proof read your post and see all caps?


My bad .... please re-post my post with out caps lock.... so stupid...... Now I understand why this Girl jump out of the window, because mean- while we as adult are discusing stupid things, for example caps lock, she see a oportunity to jump out a window to do her business...


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## Wifey1203 (Oct 26, 2016)

grayspinner said:


> I've got 4 teenagers (some of each sex) AND I was once a teenage girl .
> 
> You will solve nothing by calling uber or the police or blaming anyone outside your home for this.
> 
> ...


Enough said!!!!


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

jfinks said:


> Is it illegal for a Cab to give a ride to a minor? My short research says it isn't. Uber is no different, it is just company policy. Uber and the driver didn't have any intent on committing a crime. Breaking company policy isn't criminal.


Hey Perry Mason, check your local codes and your state codes. Also check to see if the laws apply differently to cabs, or public livery, or TNC. In many jurisdictions there are differences.

Also, Perry, intent is not always necessary to commit a crime. Neither is ignorance.

And, who checks their legal books before calling the cops? Call them, and let the cops tell you if a crime was committed.


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## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> Don't know you, but you really think Uber will care? They will work with police because they have to, not because they want to.
> 
> To the OP, Uber won't care.
> 
> Anybody here have a story where Uber worked with a driver to stop under 18 year old riders? Uber will send drivers to known and suspected under-age riders until they get sued or a legal order stops them.


Uber will care when the police call a press conference and state that Uber was an accessory to rape.


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## PeterNorth (Apr 4, 2016)

circle1 said:


> Lawyers have told me that it's my responsibility to not give rides to minors. Now we may go round-and-round arguing law on here, but my question to you is; _*do you want to become a test case in court?*_


*No.*


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## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> Unfortinately for the OP age of consent in Georgia is 16...


So, it is open season on screwing 16 year olds. Remind me to hang out at the high school in a white van.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Steven Ambrose said:


> Uber will care when the police call a press conference and state that Uber was an accessory to rape.


We don't even know the circumstances here. Was it a 40 year old who called the uber and who was having sex with the girl when mom tracked her down, or was it an 18 year old who was with her and 10 other teens just hanging out?

BTW I looked 20 when I was 16 and tgat was 35 years ago. 16 year olds almost all look older these days. Especially at night, spotting who is 16 vs who is 22 or 23 as they get in the back of your car is not easy. And as a female I could maybe get away with it, but how many young women are going to want to show their ID to a 40 year old driver without thinking it's creepy? It would result in low ratings for sure.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

I'm not sure how you could allege any rape took place if she's 16 and can legally consent. It's not a kidnap, she snuck out. Would you feel better if she walked?


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## simpsonsverytall (Nov 6, 2015)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


i don't know.

I don't care.

call the police or something.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

MSUGrad9902 said:


> State of Georgia consent is 16. She'd likely be treated as an adult in anything over a misdemeanor.


It's 16 in half the country and all of canada. Plus in most states if the older person is close in age (often 3 years) it's a misdemeanor if it's a crime at all (an 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old for instance).


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Steven Ambrose said:


> So, it is open season on screwing 16 year olds. Remind me to hang out at the high school in a white van.


Go to mexico. It's 12 or 13 most places there.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Steven Ambrose said:


> So, it is open season on screwing 16 year olds. Remind me to hang out at the high school in a white van.


I didnt make the laws. If that AOC makes you think its open season, have at it....


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> Hey Perry Mason, check your local codes and your state codes. Also check to see if the laws apply differently to cabs, or public livery, or TNC. In many jurisdictions there are differences.
> 
> Also, Perry, intent is not always necessary to commit a crime. Neither is ignorance.
> 
> And, who checks their legal books before calling the cops? Call them, and let the cops tell you if a crime was committed.


Now there is no reason to be an asshole and call people names. Now is there?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Michael Proffitt said:


> I'd take it to a lawyer.


I went to avvo.com

Response was that's it's the contractor's duty to obey all company policies and the law . . .

Could some others here please go to that site and ask the same question? I mentioned this controversy on avvo's site . . .


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

circle1 said:


> I went to avvo.com
> 
> Response was that's it's the contractor's duty to obey all company policies and the law . . .
> 
> Could some others here please go to that site and ask the same question? I mentioned this controversy on avvo's site . . .


If we don't read the rider TOS how woukd we know anything about the policies?

The law varies depending on jurisdiction.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> If we don't read the rider TOS how woukd we know anything about the policies?
> 
> The law varies depending on jurisdiction.


I'm sorry, but one of the most basic concepts in law is; _*ignorance of the law does not excuse*_.


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## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> Thanks captain obvious. I appreciate the lack of concern for the bigger question I asked for assistance with. According to the Uber legal terms, an account holder cannot set up transport for an unaccompanied minor. I am looking for someone that can help me on how to contact Uber about the policy violation in the hopes that maybe I can make it a little more difficult for the man to do this again. Not that my action will change his behavior but that maybe I can be an obstacle that will force him to at least not use Uber.


There is nothing you can do for uber to discipline the man. Uber can deactivate his account and he can just make a new one under a different credit card and email. Uber does not have record of who is getting in our cars. They only have true identity of drivers. 
So stop worrying about uber and discipline your daughter accordingly so that SHE does not do this again.


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## Argantes (Dec 12, 2015)

Mom82of2 said:


> Thanks captain obvious. I appreciate the lack of concern for the bigger question I asked for assistance with. According to the Uber legal terms, an account holder cannot set up transport for an unaccompanied minor. I am looking for someone that can help me on how to contact Uber about the policy violation in the hopes that maybe I can make it a little more difficult for the man to do this again. Not that my action will change his behavior but that maybe I can be an obstacle that will force him to at least not use Uber.


So what's your end game? Get the driver in trouble for picking up someone who is 16 under someone else's account with hopes you will teach your unruly daughter a lesson? We drivers pick up randoms day and night and sometimes even though it's someone else's account usually its a bf or family member trying to make sure the rider gets home safe, something you might do one of these days. There's a difference between picking up a 16-year old who most people might confuse to be 18+ and a 10 year old. How old is the guy anyway? Don't tell me he is 18 and you just don't approve of him?


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Mom82of2 said:


> What can I do?



You can be a parent! Instead of looking for solutions you should be concentrating on the cause. Little Johnny can fall off his bike a thousand times and we will keep bandaging him up. How about teaching little Johnny to properly ride his bike.


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

I picked up a 17 yr old one night about 1:30am. About 3/4's of the way there she openly said she was 17 and she had snuck out of the house. 
I contacted Uber to find out what OUR liability was if her parents were to find out and call the police to report her missing. Their response was that I had the right to accept or cancel the ride. That was it. 
What I find disturbing is that you appear to blame the Uber driver. Unless she told the driver what she was doing I seriously doubt you have any grounds to contact Uber and try and get a driver in trouble just for doing his job. 
Also, the drivers did not agree to provide rides only to account holders. Those terms are specifically for the riders. Our driver terms, unless updated recently, do not include those provisions.


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## VegasR (Oct 18, 2016)

That makes sense. How are we supposed to know who is who?

"I'm not taking you because that's a man's name."

That won't end well.


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## TBone (Jan 19, 2015)

circle1 said:


> I'm sorry, but one of the most basic concepts in law is; _*ignorance of the law does not excuse*_.


Depends on if your a rich white kid or not. See the stories about the Rich Texas teen that drove drunk and killed a bunch of people. His excuse was that he was too rich to know drunk driving was illegal. Received probation. 
How about the two white kids that sexually assaulted girls at a party and received probation.


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## EX_ (Jan 31, 2016)

Uber is just a third-party matching service between drivers and pax, only to drive from point A-to-B and nothing more. Ultimately the "independent contractor" is not personally involved, unless he/she had prior and/or explicit knowledge of the rendezvous in question.

Better talk to your daughter ASAP and get that shit sorted out, because you're not gonna have much say on who she's involved with when turning the legal age.


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## Maksim (Nov 19, 2016)

Uber Jason said:


> Well the uber driver that picked her up and gave her a ride did a big no no. You're not supposed to give rides to anyone under the age of 18. It is stated pretty clearly in the user agreement.


And you know 100% certain how old they are? Do you ask them for ID? Do you verify it is authentic?


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## Maksim (Nov 19, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> We don't even know the circumstances here. Was it a 40 year old who called the uber and who was having sex with the girl when mom tracked her down, or was it an 18 year old who was with her and 10 other teens just hanging out?
> 
> BTW I looked 20 when I was 16 and tgat was 35 years ago. 16 year olds almost all look older these days. Especially at night, spotting who is 16 vs who is 22 or 23 as they get in the back of your car is not easy. And as a female I could maybe get away with it, but how many young women are going to want to show their ID to a 40 year old driver without thinking it's creepy? It would result in low ratings for sure.


That brings up the other issue...

How creepy is it that the Uber driver is asking for your home address, date of birth, etc?

Especially if you are going from school to somewhere else, and not from your own house.


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## Rittz19007 (Nov 2, 2016)

Heres the thing with the under age thing parents need to stop setting up acounts for there kids its sends mixed messages to drivers Then when something like this happens some guy loses his driving privileges Because the day before He picked up someones kid at school with moms account I get ride request for high schools and middle schools all the time And I also get rides where 2 mins in Its someones dad telling me Im picking up his daughter I dont see the harm in giving a 16 year old a ride Because I know im a safe driver and a father who would look after the kid like its my own But there needs to be something to prevent things like this one and maybe more backround checks on riders driving minors


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

circle1 said:


> I'm sorry, but one of the most basic concepts in law is; _*ignorance of the law does not excuse*_.


The Uber TOS is not THE LAW. As I pointed out, laws vary, so carrying unaccompanied minors is not illegal in many jurisdictions. Also, the rider TOS doesn't want the minor to ride with anyone other than the account holder. That means if the account holder is the 18 year old sister riding with her minor sister it's fine, but the adult sister can't order a ride for their parents and her minor sister ACCORDING TO.THE UBER RIDER TOS. Obviously that ride would be LEGAL, unless there is some strange place where the laws have been changed to mirror Uber's TOS.

If carrying another person's kid in your car were always illegal you couldn't give your kid's friend a ride home. Generally if you have the guardian's permission it's fine. Laws may specifically address taxis, buses, etc but most places haven't even written new laws for uber.


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## unPat (Jul 20, 2016)

I don't think it's ubers fault or the drivers. Maybe it's time to have a conversation with your daughter like a friend and an adult and figure out what's going on. You should also take a bit of blame for this. Maybe it's just her friends.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Carrying unaccompanied minors is legal until they make an accusation.
"He TOUCHED me!".
Now, a drivers career is over and the fun simply begins.

Ill say it again and again...
DONT TAKE ANYONE BUT THE ACTUAL ACCOUNT HOLDER.


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## Ray21 (Sep 2, 2016)

Back in September I took back to back some unaccompanion minors to school and from shool.... check screenshot...
I know some times its against the law but in this to cases was on the Hoboken train crash day


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## EX_ (Jan 31, 2016)

I'm just gonna come out and say it:

Why wasn't Mom82of2 more proactive in either preventing or educating her teenage daughter on the potential pitfalls of adult dating. Clearly, This scenario is beyond Uber and more of an oversight (or possible overprotective boundaries that teenagers will inevitably challenge) of the parent themselves.

Uber is intentionally transparent and it works (or hinders) both ways. Blame the delinquent and pax, not the driver who's just doing their job.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Carrying unaccompanied minors is legal until they make an accusation.
> "He TOUCHED me!".
> Now, a drivers career is over and the fun simply begins.
> 
> ...


It doesn't take an unaccompanied minor to make that accusation. A drunk collage age girl who is 18 can do the exact same thing. (Hell a 45 yo man could as well...there was be as much public outcry, but I suppose it could happen). That is why I have a dual view cam w/ audio. Shows inside and outside car. If someone makes that accusation, I can just play back the video.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

As for the op, she clearly didn't get the coddling she was wanting and did not want to hear the truth and has not been back. So any advice to her is wasted. This is a good conversation though and are definitely merits to many sides of the argument.


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## JSM0713 (Apr 25, 2015)

Steven Ambrose said:


> She is 16, call the police, file a report. Uber will work with the police.


To whomever started this chain.... Please listen to the advice being given you by Steven Ambros. If she's underage, and looks it, this is potentially a criminal matter. Her feelings are not as important as her safety. This should not be allowed to occur. The information about her ride is easily obtainable through Uber since your address is automatically imprinted on the ride data on their computer. EVERY ride is logged that way. If you're trying to cover up for her, so she doesn't have any problems, your enabling her. Ask her directly what the hell happened that night.... better yet, sit her ass in front of a detective and let him ask her.


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## Michaacb (Sep 4, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


You'd need the full name of the person who requested the ride for your daughter at the very least. I would go to a Greenlight Office and report it there. That's really all you can do. I babysit for a family that has a 17-year-old girl and have run into a similar issue with friends getting cars for her too. They have a single level house and the girl's bedroom is the furthest away from the mother's room. She goes out the window quite often.

That being said, there isn't much you can do on the Uber end of it. There are home door and window alarms you can install that will sound every time a window or door is opened. Perhaps you might consider putting one on her window so that if she opens it in the middle of the night, you'll be alerted.


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## MSUGrad9902 (Jun 8, 2016)

A detective??? Exactly what crime is alleged to have occurred? I'm not seeing one.


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## Michaacb (Sep 4, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> There have been two helpful posts. Clearly there are some people that don't understand that the safety of children takes priority over making a buck. I am thankful my daughter is not smart enough to turn off her location services so I found her within 30 min. So nice to know that some have expressed true compassion where as others would rather blame the person identified as a child than the adult predator. Thank goodness nothing tragic happened to my kid.


Lady, if you're looking for sympathy, you've come to the wrong place. We're just trying to earn a living. It's your daughter and her friend who are ultimately in the wrong here, not the drivers.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

JSM0713 said:


> To whomever started this chain.... Please listen to the advice being given you by Steven Ambros. If she's underage, and looks it, this is potentially a criminal matter. Her feelings are not as important as her safety. This should not be allowed to occur. The information about her ride is easily obtainable through Uber since your address is automatically imprinted on the ride data on their computer. EVERY ride is logged that way. If you're trying to cover up for her, so she doesn't have any problems, your enabling her. Ask her directly what the hell happened that night.... better yet, sit her ass in front of a detective and let him ask her.


Again, there are way too many unknowns. She said she had the text messages between the daughter and this "older male". If the male is indeed quite a bit older and indeed did manipulate the underage daughter and/or coerce sex, then bring THOSE TEXTS to the police... that is the actual crime and the evidence needed. If a crime was committed, the police will likely get way more results tracking the phone number and get all the records from phone company.


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## Uber Jason (Sep 9, 2016)

Maksim said:


> And you know 100% certain how old they are? Do you ask them for ID? Do you verify it is authentic?


I do ask for ID if they are young. Everytime. Turned down many rides because of it too. And reported every one as a fraudulent rider.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I'm father to a son and daughter.
> I share your concern.
> I'd go directly to the police and open a case.
> I'd prosecute this as statutory rape.
> ...


Don't forget to contact the media. With Uber now allowing hookers and other 'non-violent offenders' to drive, what could POSSIBLY go wrong?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22374...tutes-and-other-ex-criminals-as-taxi-drivers/


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Ray21 said:


> I think honestly in this case the only problem in here is your daughter... In this case she use Uber, but she could use Lyft, Juno, a normal taxi or some one else picking her. Its better that the time that you are going to spend back and forward with Uber costumer support, you spent it trying to finding out whats going on with her. Maybe this is not the first time she jump out of that window... good luck.


exactly this. all of it.


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## GalinMcMahon (Jun 30, 2016)

Arranging a ride for someone isn't rape (?)

(Unrelated As drivers, we blindly pick people up. We have asked, but Uber refuses to attach rider pictures like Lyft already does.



TwoFiddyMile said:


> I'm father to a son and daughter.
> I share your concern.
> I'd go directly to the police and open a case.
> I'd prosecute this as statutory rape.
> ...


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## uberer2016 (Oct 16, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


How does someone use uber to commit kidnapping? Your daughter willingly entered the car. If you could successfully stop the man from using uber, what about other rideshare services like lyft, juno, cjane go, taxi, etc? Are you going to try to stop him from using all those other services too? I think the root of the problem here is yourself. The most concerning problem is here is your daughter is doing things behind your back. If you have already tried all other methods to talk to her and she still doesn't listen, then you could do the extreme stuffs like bolted up your windows.

Even if you could successfully get the driver deactivated and that man's uber account suspended, it doesn't change the fact that your daughter still wants to sneak out to see that man. So yea, Uber has nothing to do with it so this is obviously the wrong forum to ask for advice. Talk to the police. If he hasn't done anything illegal then you can hire a private investigator to follow him.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Lots of parenting advice. Wonder if they knew where their kids were 24/7. And some of this advice comes from people who can't even find the age requirements in the Uber TOS. 

I am in California. Yes, it is NOT legal to give rides to unaccompanied under-18 riders. When Uber is notified of a under-18 rider, they continue to send drivers to that address. 

Contact Uber? Mom will get a reply from Rasheesh asking her what version of the app she is using.


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick (Oct 2, 2016)

I'm here to help.

Some solutions and feedback.


Bars over your daughter's window on the exterior of the building. Or even the interior, more discrete and gets your point across.
A security system that monitors windows, which includes cameras , amongst other things.
A frank conversation with your daughter how an unwanted pregnancy with a baby as a result will dramatically change her life or a pregnancy with out a baby as a result (being polite) will be a trying experience. 
I wonder if you can get one of those ankle monitoring systems for civilian use.
Explain to your daughter that it is your house, your rules. When she becomes a legal adult, and does not follow the rules, send her on her way.


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## Travis -k (Sep 11, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


Parent your child...
The problem is not with UBER
The problem is with the Child and Other person.
If it were a city bus she got on would you be calling the metro office?

Your focusing your attentions on an insignificant part of your problem.

If UBER did not exist your daughter would have still left the house.


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## Travis -k (Sep 11, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> She's a juvenile. Even if the authorities charge her with something, her file gets sealed on her 18th birthday.


Unless she gets a job that requires a government clearance. A co worker of mine was banned from an area of Edwards AFB we were working at for something he did when he was sixteen


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick (Oct 2, 2016)

Travis -k said:


> Parent your child...
> The problem is not with UBER
> The problem is with the Child and Other person.
> If it were a city bus she got on would you be calling the metro office?
> ...


Think of us twin Travises, as the good cop, bad cop example. I'm good Travis and well, Travis -K is obviously bad.

Your daughter has declared war on you. You need to shock and awe her! Go over the top. Pointing fingers and chasing Ubers may make you feel good but is not only predictable, but a weak strategy, dare I say comical (most specifically to your daughter).

Edited week vs weak with my editor's help Driving and Driven


Read up on the old fable / story about Don Quixote chasing windmills.










https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilting_at_windmills

Read this book quickly.










*Your welcome, and tip your next Uber driver, even if they are picking up your daughter.*


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Tr4vis Ka1anick said:


> not only predictable, but a _week_ strategy*...*


And how long will the Sun Tzu take?


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## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

I just wonder if she took a surge ride.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

jp300h said:


> Again, there are way too many unknowns. She said she had the text messages between the daughter and this "older male". If the male is indeed quite a bit older and indeed did manipulate the underage daughter and/or coerce sex, then bring THOSE TEXTS to the police... that is the actual crime and the evidence needed. If a crime was committed, the police will likely get way more results tracking the phone number and get all the records from phone company.


We've already established that age of consent in GA is 16. the Daughter is 16. No crime was committed unless the daughter returns and claims she was raped, which doesn't seem to have happened


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick (Oct 2, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> And how long will the Sun Tzu take?


A week, duh?


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## Ms.Doe (Apr 15, 2016)

Why didn't you call the police once you found her at the creep's house? 

"Older male"? How old is this person?


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick (Oct 2, 2016)

steveK2016 said:


> We've already established that age of consent in GA is 16. the Daughter is 16. No crime was committed unless the daughter returns and claims she was raped, which doesn't seem to have happened


Lets just blame the Uber driver for that as well, everyone else does.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

I'm just thinking the Mom is jealous that the older guy wanted her daughter and not her.


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## Ray21 (Sep 2, 2016)

Lol... I think this threat will break a record in replay's, questions, comments, funny and stuppid feedback. This will be into top 5 threat of 2016...


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## Tr4vis Ka1anick (Oct 2, 2016)

I just had a stroke of genius. Mom should sign up for Uber as a driver. Go online at night and wait for a ping for the explicit Uber pick up escapade from your Daughters "friend" and blamo trap is sprung.


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## Ray21 (Sep 2, 2016)

By the way... It will be good to know if this trip had surge/ boost in it and if the girl or the male account holder did Tip the driver at end of the trip... Was any in between stop in the trip? maybe to Mcdonalds, 7 eleven or any close by pharmacy..... We are missing so many details in here... Did the driver took a in-efficient route??


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## UStaxman (Aug 14, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


As a father I can empathize- but as a driver, we are in a tough position to 'enforce':
Is her window facing the street where the Uber driver would have seen her climb out of a window? As a driver did or would I know she climbed out of a window? Or was she perhaps outside waiting- as many passengers are?
Some passengers use an address next door to their house so that the driver doesn't know their actual address.
Some passengers use an alias name- are to check ID's?
Some passengers - i.e college students ride on their fathers Uber account because they don't have their own credit card. 
Are we to check ID's for age or identity? 
Do taxi drivers check ID's?


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## LCR_dog (Aug 29, 2016)

Could that older male be your husband? Off to nearby hotel?


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## Travis -k (Sep 11, 2016)

DexNex said:


> I just wonder if she took a surge ride.


Hehehe, I see what you did there, heh


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## Travis -k (Sep 11, 2016)

LCR_dog said:


> Could that older male be your husband? Off to nearby hotel?


Thats gross


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## Travis -k (Sep 11, 2016)

What kind of car was it? A prius? Dont forget to call Toyota as well...


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

As a driver, we are NOT in a tough position to enforce. 

As a driver, you pay attention to your surroundings, don't you? Assuming it is a residential area, how many young girls are out alone at night? No, 16 year old girls do not regularly look like they are 21. Especially a girl who has just snuck out. 

You pull up to the pax. You advise them the minimum age is 18. "Are you 18"? If No, then "Is there someone I can call?" 
If Yes, "can I see some identification?"

Too many drivers make excuses and take the lazy way out. And until Drivers en masse giver Uber hell, Uber will continue to put drivers in dangerous situations. 

Two thoughts to take away: 

Nothing much good happens after midnight, and, I repeat, Evil rules when good people do nothing.


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## Wardell Curry (Jul 9, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


You can try raising your daughter properly in the future. The chances are she knew the older person andthe uber driver drove her to the location on the app. As to what happened after she was dropped off, that is between her and the account holder assuming they were meeting up.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Wardell Curry said:


> You can try raising your daughter properly in the future. The chances are she knew the older person andthe uber driver drove her to the location on the app. As to what happened after she was dropped off, that is between her and the account holder assuming they were meeting up.


Hopefully she taught her safe sex, but not sure if she cant even keep her kid in the house.


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## Wardell Curry (Jul 9, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> As a driver, we are NOT in a tough position to enforce.
> 
> As a driver, you pay attention to your surroundings, don't you? Assuming it is a residential area, how many young girls are out alone at night? No, 16 year old girls do not regularly look like they are 21. Especially a girl who has just snuck out.
> 
> ...


To be real, you would be surprised how old some young people look and vice versa. Our jobs are to get pax from point a to b. Im not going to start demanding to see id whenever I pick someone up alone that may look young unless it is obvious the person isnt even a teenager yet.


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## El Janitor (Feb 22, 2016)

Have you thought about going to church and seeing what the youth/teen ministry is like for your daughter?


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## BillyTheKidd (Dec 22, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I'm father to a son and daughter.
> I share your concern.
> I'd go directly to the police and open a case.
> I'd prosecute this as statutory rape.
> ...


What in the original post indicates that there was sexual contact, sexual assault or rape of any kind??

Kidnapping is kidnapping. It does not have to involve taking a person across state lines.

Clearly you do not know what statutory rape or kidnapping is.

I cannot believe all the accusations of a crime being committed and to call the police and get a detective.

Only people who are 18 and older are supposed to be able to ride unaccompanied. This is an Uber regulation.

Can anyone point to any civil infraction or criminal infraction, local, state or federal that the driver committed?


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## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Simple solution is:
> NEVER take a pax who isnt the account holder.


Not practical and violates procedure. Uber has the details in the app. Courtesy call the driver giving them the name of your friend that you have made a request for. It is in the app.


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## Doowop (Jul 10, 2016)




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## DriverPsycho (Jul 27, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> Thanks captain obvious. I appreciate the lack of concern for the bigger question I asked for assistance with. According to the Uber legal terms, an account holder cannot set up transport for an unaccompanied minor. I am looking for someone that can help me on how to contact Uber about the policy violation in the hopes that maybe I can make it a little more difficult for the man to do this again. Not that my action will change his behavior but that maybe I can be an obstacle that will force him to at least not use Uber.





Mom82of2 said:


> There have been two helpful posts. Clearly there are some people that don't understand that the safety of children takes priority over making a buck. I am thankful my daughter is not smart enough to turn off her location services so I found her within 30 min. So nice to know that some have expressed true compassion where as others would rather blame the person identified as a child than the adult predator. Thank goodness nothing tragic happened to my kid.


To many trolls here lady, glad ur daughter is back n safe, now do me a favor n hire a freakin lawyer n sue Fuber, settle n send me something for my advice ty


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

VegasR said:


> That makes sense. How are we supposed to know who is who?
> 
> "I'm not taking you because that's a man's name."
> 
> That won't end well.


. . . Granted. but what about, "may I please see a picture ID?"

If you have a camera in the car and they give you guff or outright refuse, for the record I say, "Ok, I tried."


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

TBone said:


> Depends on if your a rich white kid or not. See the stories about the Rich Texas teen that drove drunk and killed a bunch of people. His excuse was that he was too rich to know drunk driving was illegal. Received probation.
> How about the two white kids that sexually assaulted girls at a party and received probation.


I agree. The Rule of Law _*is*_ getting the short-shrift these days!!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Rittz19007 said:


> Heres the thing with the under age thing parents need to stop setting up acounts for there kids its sends mixed messages to drivers Then when something like this happens some guy loses his driving privileges Because the day before He picked up someones kid at school with moms account I get ride request for high schools and middle schools all the time And I also get rides where 2 mins in Its someones dad telling me Im picking up his daughter I dont see the harm in giving a 16 year old a ride Because I know im a safe driver and a father who would look after the kid like its my own But there needs to be something to prevent things like this one and maybe more backround checks on riders driving minors


Eventually, one of us contractors is going to end up as a test case in court . . . you, maybe?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> The Uber TOS is not THE LAW. As I pointed out, laws vary, so carrying unaccompanied minors is not illegal in many jurisdictions. Also, the rider TOS doesn't want the minor to ride with anyone other than the account holder. That means if the account holder is the 18 year old sister riding with her minor sister it's fine, but the adult sister can't order a ride for their parents and her minor sister ACCORDING TO.THE UBER RIDER TOS. Obviously that ride would be LEGAL, unless there is some strange place where the laws have been changed to mirror Uber's TOS.
> 
> If carrying another person's kid in your car were always illegal you couldn't give your kid's friend a ride home. Generally if you have the guardian's permission it's fine. Laws may specifically address taxis, buses, etc but most places haven't even written new laws for uber.


I'll grant that each states' law may be different. So, what we're hand-wringing over here is about those states which DO prohibit transporting minors without a parent or gaurdian present.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Carrying unaccompanied minors is legal until they make an accusation.
> "He TOUCHED me!".
> Now, a drivers career is over and the fun simply begins.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

jp300h said:


> It doesn't take an unaccompanied minor to make that accusation. A drunk collage age girl who is 18 can do the exact same thing. (Hell a 45 yo man could as well...there was be as much public outcry, but I suppose it could happen). That is why I have a dual view cam w/ audio. Shows inside and outside car. If someone makes that accusation, I can just play back the video.


. . . Right, but verifying age (when the pax looks young) and also verifying account holder acts a reducer of risk. Very easy thing to do to prevent disaster; did you know that you could stop a truck whos brakes failed on a hill if you put a rock or chunk of wood under a tire within the first few seconds?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

New2This said:


> Don't forget to contact the media. With Uber now allowing hookers and other 'non-violent offenders' to drive, what could POSSIBLY go wrong?
> 
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22374...tutes-and-other-ex-criminals-as-taxi-drivers/


"What could possib_*lie*_ go wring?"


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Travis -k said:


> Thats gross


Seriously messed up post!


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## OlDirtySapper (Jul 26, 2016)

If you don't go to the office you will never find an uber employee to talk to you. The drivers uber hires don't normally think like cab drivers that wouldn't let a young girl in their car out of fear. It's one of the problems with hiring your customer base and not professional drivers. They also allow people to put fake names in the app so as long as the PAX knows the name that requested the car it's not that unusual to have a different sex passenger. The driver has no idea what's going on and half the time we taking people to creep on their SO, so even if they saw her come out a window she would pry still get a ride as long as she looked half grown.


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## SunnySonya (Oct 18, 2016)

Based on nothing but an account holders name .....uber drivers are supposed to be able to decipher sex, plus look at them and determine age?
I have a female friend named Charlie. 
I have a male AND female friend named Jaime.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Wardell Curry said:


> To be real, you would be surprised how old some young people look and vice versa. Our jobs are to get pax from point a to b. Im not going to start demanding to see id whenever I pick someone up alone that may look young unless it is obvious the person isnt even a teenager yet.


I get requests every week to pick up pax under age 18.

And yes, some kids look older. So what? Most do not. And I will posit that a 16/17 year old is not looking 18+ years old at 1:30 a.m.. Quit looking at boobs and look at their face. 
What do you have to lose by checking the age? Rating? That is selfish.. And you really concerned a pax will rate you low because you took a safety precaution? 
A fare? That is selfish, and, it can be replaced. Likely with a longer ride.

And those who knowingly and consistently take unde-18 riders .... you probably take every Poo request too..


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## Black 150 (Oct 26, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> There have been two helpful posts. Clearly there are some people that don't understand that the safety of children takes priority over making a buck. I am thankful my daughter is not smart enough to turn off her location services so I found her within 30 min. So nice to know that some have expressed true compassion where as others would rather blame the person identified as a child than the adult predator. Thank goodness nothing tragic happened to my kid.


Yep, Uber sin't the problem here. Stop wasting your time on changing Uber and spend it working with your daughter and teach her about the dangers of what she's doing.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> We don't even know the circumstances here. Was it a 40 year old who called the uber and who was having sex with the girl when mom tracked her down, or was it an 18 year old who was with her and 10 other teens just hanging out?


Or was it the DAD -- trying to rescue her from a wacko Mom?

Sometimes with threads like this, somebody will say, "Ah...but we're only hearing *ONE SIDE of the story!*"

Actually, no. You're only hearing _that part _of *ONE SIDE of the story* that OP wants to share. Caveat emptor.


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## Wardell Curry (Jul 9, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> I get requests every week to pick up pax under age 18.
> 
> And yes, some kids look older. So what? Most do not. And I will posit that a 16/17 year old is not looking 18+ years old at 1:30 a.m.. Quit looking at boobs and look at their face.
> What do you have to lose by checking the age? Rating? That is selfish.. And you really concerned a pax will rate you low because you took a safety precaution?
> ...


Again Im not asking for id. You can do that. What if the pax left their id at home or refuses to show it? You will kick them out ? And no. I dont accept every pool but I make money with uber because I dont waste my time with things that dont matter much in the long run.


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> I didn't read all 4 pages of responses.
> 
> If I were in California Uber broke the law. I don't know Georgia law but I would still call police
> and report Uber for child endangerment.
> ...


Uber has no liability. John ordered a ride via uber and put in a pickup address. driver arived and picked up rider from a private address. Uber the company has no way of knowing if driver picked up John, Jill or a monkey.


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## Wardell Curry (Jul 9, 2016)

And if Uber really wants only the account holder to use the account for rides, they should provide a picture of the rider with the name of the account. For all I know John could be a 24 year old girl who doesn't want to use her real name.


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## VegasR (Oct 18, 2016)

On a side note, this country has gone crazy with fear. If the dude is 40 and some sort of movie villain then OK. But chances are that's not the case.

Kids do wild and stupid stuff. Who didn't sneak out at night? I sure did. I turned out... well, not all that great. I'm doing rideshare. But, it's not because I tested some boundaries as a kid. Plenty of my old partners in crime are doctors, lawyers and executives now. Most kids are going to try some stuff. Some won't. It's part of life and always has been. 

Obviously, girls are riskier, which is why you need to make sure they understand safe sex like their ABCs. But, turning your house into a prison? Murder? Attacking the livelihood of some poor schmuck who she takes an uber ride from, or trying to get him tossed in jail? Yikes!


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## Wardell Curry (Jul 9, 2016)

VegasR said:


> On a side note, this country has gone crazy with fear. If the dude is 40 and some sort of movie villain then OK. But chances are that's not the case.
> 
> Kids do wild and stupid stuff. Who didn't sneak out at night? I sure did. I turned out... well, not all that great. I'm doing rideshare. But, it's not because I tested some boundaries as a kid. Plenty of my old partners in crime are doctors, lawyers and executives now. Most kids are going to try some stuff. Some won't. It's part of life and always has been.
> 
> Obviously, girls are riskier, which is why you need to make sure they understand safe sex like their ABCs. But, turning your house into a prison? Murder? Attacking the livelihood of some poor schmuck who she takes an uber ride from, or trying to get him tossed in jail? Yikes!


There wasnt Uber when we were teenagers though. It would have been much harder to get rides with strangers Im thinking.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

OlDirtySapper said:


> If you don't go to the office you will never find an uber employee to talk to you. The drivers uber hires don't normally think like cab drivers that wouldn't let a young girl in their car out of fear. It's one of the problems with hiring your customer base and not professional drivers. They also allow people to put fake names in the app so as long as the PAX knows the name that requested the car it's not that unusual to have a different sex passenger. The driver has no idea what's going on and half the time we taking people to creep on their SO, so even if they saw her come out a window she would pry still get a ride as long as she looked half grown.


Cabs also don't have to worry the pissed off pax who had to dig out their ID to prove they're 18 will now downrate them either.

Drivers on the edge of deactivation will not want to piss off a pax by asking for ID and risk a low rating. They also won't want to cancel the trip because it raises their cancellation rate.

It's the same problem with taking 5 pax in uberx, or speeding because the pax is running late.

Also, drivers know the pax can always get another driver and won't be deactivated unless they attack a driver, AND can always open another account.

Uber's system is set up to coerce drivers into doing things they might not want to, or risk losing their jobs. IMO this is a big part of the problem.


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

Wardell Curry said:


> There wasnt Uber when we were teenagers though. It would have been much harder to get rides with strangers Im thinking.


When I was a kid you just stuck out your thumb.


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## GoatLove (Jul 29, 2016)

Sniff sniff, story sounds fake. But I only read original post.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

When someone hops in my car I know nothing about them. They could be a runaway or an ax murderer. It's not my business to find out.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

SunnySonya said:


> Based on nothing but an account holders name .....uber drivers are supposed to be able to decipher sex, plus look at them and determine age?
> I have a female friend named Charlie.
> I have a male AND female friend named Jaime.


Ok, you guys can become test cases, not me. I agree about the male/female ID, but if a pax looks underage, I'm asking for picture ID, Once that's out of the way, we are either parting ways or starting the trip.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Wardell Curry said:


> Again Im not asking for id. You can do that. What if the pax left their id at home or refuses to show it? You will kick them out ? And no. I dont accept every pool but I make money with uber because I dont waste my time with things that dont matter much in the long run.


Assuming we are in states that regulate transporting minors, simply just ask for ID if they look like they may be underage. Hopefully the conversation will be recorded. But either way, you've exercised reasonable care (which is a legal precept). Either the pax is stepping-off, or the ride begins. The ride may indeed begin with an underage pax, because they refused to produce ID. You and I as adults and independent contractors may believe we've done our part.

The reason I'm going to the trouble of responding to the posts in this thread and saying these things is because I see drivers taking a big risk. Eventually, a TNC contractor is going to wind-up in court over this issue.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Billys Bones said:


> Uber has no liability. John ordered a ride via uber and put in a pickup address. driver arived and picked up rider from a private address. Uber the company has no way of knowing if driver picked up John, Jill or a monkey.


. . . it's all on the contractor!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

VegasR said:


> On a side note, this country has gone crazy with fear. If the dude is 40 and some sort of movie villain then OK. But chances are that's not the case.
> 
> Kids do wild and stupid stuff. Who didn't sneak out at night? I sure did. I turned out... well, not all that great. I'm doing rideshare. But, it's not because I tested some boundaries as a kid. Plenty of my old partners in crime are doctors, lawyers and executives now. Most kids are going to try some stuff. Some won't. It's part of life and always has been.
> 
> Obviously, girls are riskier, which is why you need to make sure they understand safe sex like their ABCs. But, turning your house into a prison? Murder? Attacking the livelihood of some poor schmuck who she takes an uber ride from, or trying to get him tossed in jail? Yikes!


. . . on a side note; when I read your post I hear Otto's voice.


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

Sounds to me like someone doesn't want to take responsibility for there lack of control. Taking it out on a poor ( and yes I mean poor ) uber driver is absurd. I take kids to school nearly everyday... Without a parent. No not little kids but teenagers yes... Everyday. A 16 year old at 1:30 in the morning sneaking out is a teenager doing teenager things and rebelling. You sound like a parent that has a kid with failing grades in school and blames the teacher.... I do agree if the account holder that ordered the uber is a predator he should be prosecuted.... Definitely not the driver.


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## Wardell Curry (Jul 9, 2016)

Billys Bones said:


> When I was a kid you just stuck out your thumb.


I am 25 bro. Am I old?


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## Michaacb (Sep 4, 2016)

GalinMcMahon said:


> Arranging a ride for someone isn't rape (?)
> 
> (Unrelated As drivers, we blindly pick people up. We have asked, but Uber refuses to attach rider pictures like Lyft already does.


I know, right?! They let riders break the rules and then try to hold the drivers accountable for policing riders.


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## clintz (Nov 1, 2016)

JimKE said:


> he Uber driver did violate Uber's Terms of Service, if indeed they knew your daughter is a minor, but I'm sure the driver is the least of your concerns.


not trying to add more heat and so on but not sure how driver violated the policy per say, in this society, would be easy for driver to say, hey you ain't registered, get out or something, then girl start crying and saying mum is being abusive, I need to get to dads urgently.

not saying this happened, but I do not know how Uber would screen the drivers doing this. just a thought

glad she is back, and honestly, I do not know why the world is so broken.


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## DirtyRead (Oct 2, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?[/QUO
> 
> 
> Mom82of2 said:
> ...


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## DirtyRead (Oct 2, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> There have been two helpful posts. Clearly there are some people that don't understand that the safety of children takes priority over making a buck. I am thankful my daughter is not smart enough to turn off her location services so I found her within 30 min. So nice to know that some have expressed true compassion where as others would rather blame the person identified as a child than the adult predator. Thank goodness nothing tragic happened to my kid.


Yes, safety is important but your family's safety is no more important then mine or anyone's. The reason so many drivers have responded callous replies is your post is attacking us and the App provider a lot of us depend on. Its posts like this that get alarmist forming posses carring torches to the castle. Just your word and by your I mean anyone's word is and has been enough for drivers to be taken off the platform (basically fired. Some deservingly so and more then some not deservingly so. 99% of the people in the world are good people just like the vast majority of drivers are. I refuse underage riders every time and for fear of things like this happening I have waited until until the child was safely picked up. In the rain I waited out of the car while a minor sat in the car. I did not get paid to do so. I even got cursed at for not driving a lady and her infant with out a car seat. Sorry we fallow the laws of physics in my car. I am not the only driver like this. And those are not the only nieghborly things we do. We do these things because we are your neighbors. I think that gets forgotten. I am very happy to see your daughter is safe.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

Mom82of2 said:


> Thanks captain obvious. I appreciate the lack of concern for the bigger question I asked for assistance with. According to the Uber legal terms, an account holder cannot set up transport for an unaccompanied minor. I am looking for someone that can help me on how to contact Uber about the policy violation in the hopes that maybe I can make it a little more difficult for the man to do this again. Not that my action will change his behavior but that maybe I can be an obstacle that will force him to at least not use Uber.


If you want real change, you won't get it directly from a company that could care less about customer and driver loyalty alike. As a customer, your ride is just one of billions of rides Uber has given. (2 billion rides as of July 2016) They could seriously care less if the lose you as a customer when you are ignored. (assuming you are even a customer)

Your best bet for real change is by starting a petition on petition.gov or something and having your local news media outlets pick it up in hopes it will go viral. Typically when someone has a Uber problem, the media loves it, since so many people are connected to uber and usually click on that link. Of course, it would help if your daughter was raped or grabbed against her will (some kind of victim) Since you have the text messages, you should be able to go to the police and file a police report for statutory rape, depending on where you live. Use this police report in your petition and take both to the local news outlets.

A minor can not use Uber underage, but do you know how many minors use it because their parents are too lazy to take them to school or pick them up? Since many drivers still pick them up, its assumed its okay. It's going to be a uphill battle since many of the parents who actually have the resources to fight uber on this will not because they would rather have Uber pick up their kids instead of a school bus. What many drivers don't realize, is that if your picking up a minor without a person over 18 in the vehicle, it is against Uber policy and most likely the Uber insurance won't cover the rider or driver in a accident. Uber may pay out of pocket for the minor's hospital bills and what not just to save face with the public, but as far as the driver? The driver will likely be left hanging.

You know, the only way to really make this change, is if Uber decides to require a valid i.d. must be shown to the driver upon entering which will surprise me. Its not a bad idea, especially in cities that have a curfew for minors, at least during the curfew time. Many riders are likely coming from bars anyways, so they should have their i.d. on them. Of course good luck on educating drivers on finding a fake i.d.

Right now, I just use my best judgement and cancel if they look underage. Some have told me, but "other drivers take me" I say, "its against policy but if you can find another driver, then go ahead, but its not going to be me". Its really up to the driver to enforce it. Many take minors because they need the money, and it screws other drivers over who can do not pick up minors.


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

All those politically correct uber drivers out there that "always do the right thing" care to tell me which one of these teens are not 18 ???? I may have sounded harsh in my previous message. But I'm real.


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## Uber_nomad (Nov 16, 2015)

Mom82of2 said:


> I have the screenshot and text message thread where he set it up for her. She's 16 and obviously not making good decisions and is being influenced. Yes I know, that's my issue as a parent to deal with one on one with her but the other party should not be able to use this service for this purpose again now that the behavior is proven to exist.


Im sorry this issue exists. unfortunately there is no enforcement by uber or the drivers.

My suggestion is contact your local law enforcement and provide the evidence of screenshots and etc. to law enforcement and file charges for "contributing to the delinquency" of a minor if the older male is over 18. if he is not over 18 then file charges against the other kids parents.

Law enforcement will be able to reach uber and they will handle it accordingly.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

This under 18 issue is a serious point of contention for the entire TNC industry.
Do you realize human dispatchers weed this kinda crap out every hour every day?
"Hey man can you send a cab to my teen girlfriends house? She gonna sneak out the window and..."
NOPE.
"Hey I'm trying to sneak out and meet my boyfriend can you send a cab?"
NO!

All day, every day, dumbass deviants trying to Enlist us in their reindeer games.
Sometimes, humans are better than software.
Cause judgement and shit.


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

Wardell Curry said:


> I am 25 bro. Am I old?


No; Your old when it's hard to tell 16 from 25. If I was the check your ID type; I'd have to check yours.


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## jp300h (Oct 5, 2016)

Billys Bones said:


> No; Your old when it's hard to tell 16 from 25. If I was the check your ID type; I'd have to check yours.


I'm with Ya . it is hard for me to determine hs kids from college kids.
Hell, the other day i had 3 pax from our local pro hockey team and swore they were just college kids. it wasn't until several minutes into the ride that i figured out who they were. (Didnt help that i picked them up at a popular bar for UCF students)


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## LASAC_BER (May 19, 2016)

Sorry but...I'll be the rebel here.
The driver is at fault for picking up an underaged pax, yes. But to be fair, i probably wouldn't ask for ID either, if they looked close to 18, and gave me some BS 'oh my friend ordered it for me.' It happens a lot here in LA, IDK about where you are. It's a risk we take, in fear of uber shutting us down because a customer makes up a complaint and we get deactivated quick.

The sneaking around and older man thing raises flags about the household.
Also...I'm a parent of a girl who is a few years behind yours. I hope that the groundwork I'm laying will allow her to be open with me, as I wasn't with my parents. I also snuck out to get away with things, because it was not a nurturing loving environment - it was controlling borderline abusive. I don't blame her for being her own person, and getting out from you if you aren't trying to support her decisions and interests. Let her learn and make mistakes.

Some surmising and conjecture going on here but food for thought.


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## Redwood Elf (Nov 28, 2016)

Well I know for a fact that as an Uber driver, I would be extremely suspicious of any pickup at that time in the morning of someone who looks like they belong in High School who is obviously not the account holder.

Me: Gee, you don't look like a "Fred" to me.
Her: Oh, my (Fill in the blank of an obvious fib like "Daddy" or "uncle") called the Uber for me.
Me: Can I see your ID? I'm not supposed to give rides to unaccompanied minors.

And that would probably be the end of it right there. If she tried to bluff her way through it, I'd hit the call button in the app to contact the account owner, and if he wasn't able to satisfy me that the ride was legitimate, I would cancel the ride (with appologies) and under "reason for cancelling the ride" I would type in "Unaccompanied minor on someone else's account"


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?





Mom82of2 said:


> Thanks captain obvious. I appreciate the lack of concern for the bigger question I asked for assistance with. According to the Uber legal terms, an account holder cannot set up transport for an unaccompanied minor. I am looking for someone that can help me on how to contact Uber about the policy violation in the hopes that maybe I can make it a little more difficult for the man to do this again. Not that my action will change his behavior but that maybe I can be an obstacle that will force him to at least not use Uber.





Mom82of2 said:


> I have the screenshot and text message thread where he set it up for her. She's 16 and obviously not making good decisions and is being influenced. Yes I know, that's my issue as a parent to deal with one on one with her but the other party should not be able to use this service for this purpose again now that the behavior is proven to exist.


Okay, first let me say I have no dog in this fight (see my signature.) However, having read all the posts, including multiple readings of the OP's, I don't think she is blaming the driver or trying to get him fired. The "policy violation " she describes 
would be the account holder arranging the ride for the minor. As many pointed out, the driver could have refused the trip, but, as also pointed out, repeated pings would have eventually brought a willing driver.

It looks to me like she is instead attempting to reach someone in a position at Uber to perhaps effect a policy change. Is there any chance such a change can be made? Probably not. But all the flak she's getting seems like overkill. I do agree that this is a matter for the police, depending on the age of the male and state law.

Also, while one can read between the lines and assume she is concerned about an "older male" and her young daughter having some type of sexual relationship, she does not accuse him of rape. Yet some posters alluded to that as though it was factually part of this incident.

I agree with those who told the mother that she has a problem with her daughter, but I think she already knew that. Again, some, but certainly not all, of the comments seemed unnecessarily rude.

I join others in saying to the OP that I am glad her daughter returned home safely, and wish her well.


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## UStaxman (Aug 14, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> As a driver, we are NOT in a tough position to enforce.
> 
> As a driver, you pay attention to your surroundings, don't you? Assuming it is a residential area, how many young girls are out alone at night? No, 16 year old girls do not regularly look like they are 21. Especially a girl who has just snuck out.
> 
> ...


Do cab drivers ask for ID? At the end of the day we are offering the exact same service.


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## Flarpy (Apr 17, 2016)

I'm surprised so many people played White Knight to this silly broad and her horny daughter.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Trebor said:


> What many drivers don't realize, is that if your picking up a minor without a person over 18 in the vehicle, it is against Uber policy and _*most likely the Uber insurance won't cover the rider or driver in a accident*_. Uber may pay out of pocket for the minor's hospital bills and what not just to save face with the public, but as far as the driver? _*The driver will likely be left hanging*_.
> 
> You know, the only way to really make this change, is if Uber decides to require a valid i.d. must be shown to the driver upon entering which will surprise me. Its not a bad idea, especially in cities that have a curfew for minors, at least during the curfew time. Many riders are likely coming from bars anyways, so they should have their i.d. on them. Of course good luck on educating drivers on finding a fake i.d.
> 
> Right now, I just use my best judgement and cancel if they look underage. Some have told me, but "other drivers take me" I say, "its against policy but if you can find another driver, then go ahead, but its not going to be me". Its really up to the driver to enforce it. Many take minors because they need the money, and it screws other drivers over who can do not pick up minors.


_*THIS*_ ^


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Speedyracer said:


> All those politically correct uber drivers out there that "always do the right thing" care to tell me which one of these teens are not 18 ???? I may have sounded harsh in my previous message. But I'm real.
> View attachment 78138


This picture & your post --> not relevant, if/when talking about legal and Uber policy issues.

YOU are responsible for, at the very least, attempting to verify pax age (in states that have strict laws covering this issue).

Gettin' a little sweaty are we?? Shirt collar feelin' a little tight is it?? If not, then when you're facing a $50,000 lawyer bill to keep you out of prison, just remember this conversation.

BTW, what are the laws in MD like on this issue?


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## driver5494 (Sep 27, 2015)

Mom82of2 said:


> I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


This is where you lost and even angered most people. Lady get a hold of yourself. Your daughter is 16 not 13. Your daughter is in love and wanted to be with her lover. Now do the responsible thing and make sure she's on the pill before she becomes a huge burden to us hard working tax payers.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

LASAC_BER said:


> But to be fair, i probably wouldn't ask for ID either, if they looked close to 18, and gave me some BS 'oh my friend ordered it for me.' It happens a lot here in LA, IDK about where you are. It's a risk we take, in fear of uber shutting us down because a customer makes up a complaint and we get deactivated quick.


If you never started the ride the pax would have a much higher hurdle to get over to make a serious complaint stick . . . other drivers, please comment on this.


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## hewlett2packard (Sep 29, 2016)

Ray21 said:


> I think honestly in this case the only problem in here is your daughter... In this case she use Uber, but she could use Lyft, Juno, a normal taxi or some one else picking her. Its better that the time that you are going to spend back and forward with Uber costumer support, you spent it trying to finding out whats going on with her. Maybe this is not the first time she jump out of that window... good luck.


Parents go for the easy blame, in this case Uber, who's just doing their J O B


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Redwood Elf said:


> And that would probably be the end of it right there. If she tried to bluff her way through it, I'd hit the call button in the app to contact the account owner, and if he wasn't able to satisfy me that the ride was legitimate, I would cancel the ride (with appologies) and under "reason for cancelling the ride" I would type in "Unaccompanied minor on someone else's account"


Or, don't even start the ride until verification is finished . . .


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

circle1 said:


> This picture & your post --> not relevant, if/when talking about legal and Uber policy issues.
> 
> YOU are responsible for, at the very least, attempting to verify pax age (in states that have strict laws covering this issue).
> 
> ...


This comment is not relevant. If you don't want to take kids to and from school so be it. However me when I do pick up a teenager.. I'm probably helping a 2 working parent family or single parent survive and keep there job. Like I said politically correct doesn't work with me I live in the real world and I'll bet one of my shiney "Great service" stars on that.
I did notice you didn't say which one you would card though... But hey this is only a forum right?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

circle1 said:


> If you never started the ride the pax would have a much higher hurdle to get over to make a serious complaint stick . . . other drivers, please comment on this.


What's a driver who's being threatened with deactivation for too many cancels to do?


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## thesatanicmechanic (Nov 5, 2016)

Doowop said:


> View attachment 77957


Holy crap what an illegible response. Print it, laminate it , and carry around as a "get out of jail free" card.


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

Does anyone know of any law in any state in the US that actually prohibits TNC drivers from driving minors not accompanied by another adult? If so please identify the State and Vehicle Code or Penal Code section, etc. I am aware that stronger background checks are required for companies that primarily transport minors but I am not aware of any law that actually prohibits Uber and Lyft drivers from occasionally driving an unaccompanied minor; only company policy. I suspect that the Uber policy on this issue is only in place because Uber does not want to deal with strict background check requirements.


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## Rittz19007 (Nov 2, 2016)

circle1 said:


> Eventually, one of us contractors is going to end up as a test case in court . . . you, maybe?


Not sure what your getting at Please explain


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## Rittz19007 (Nov 2, 2016)

This is a hard one Like i said I think there should be some age verification for people to open accounts and and waivers for parents Who do it for there kids I dont see nothing wrong with a 16 year old getting a ride with a uber They are old enough to drive themself I remember getting cab rides when I was younger then that Today I had a request for a kid at a middle school The mom called me on the way and told me I would be picking up her son I had to cancel and hurt my ratings over it Im In NC and the way the insurance is here its not worth the risk especially since the rider was not the one on the account But I think its safer then having a cab driver picking up your kid But if something happens like a accident Uber will put it on us


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> What's a driver who's being threatened with deactivation for too many cancels to do?


Don't cancel. The other night I had to argue with a pax about who was going to cancel after I refused the ride. He said I needed to cancel. I said no and drove off knowing he still needed a ride. He cancelled before I got out of the neighborhood.


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## Rittz19007 (Nov 2, 2016)

Heres another kicker Uber does not let minors make accounts So even if we pull up to a high school the rider gives us there name We must assume they are 18 because how can they sign up for uber if they are not 18 right ? We are not bartenders is it really up to us to ask for ID for rides when they should not be able to make accounts if they are not the right age


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Speedyracer said:


> This comment is not relevant. If you don't want to take kids to and from school so be it. However me when I do pick up a teenager.. I'm probably helping a 2 working parent family or single parent survive and keep there job. Like I said politically correct doesn't work with me I live in the real world and I'll bet one of my shiney "Great service" stars on that.
> I did notice you didn't say which one you would card though... But hey this is only a forum right?


Do you even know what the term "politically correct" means? Because accepting or declining a rider under 18 has nothing to do with that term.

Your photo of the youths ... you ask for id. On all of them if necessary. That is the point... it ain't difficult.

And, I am not a social service for a mom or dad. They can take their own kids to and from school. It's a parenting skill.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Speedyracer said:


> I did notice you didn't say which one you would card though... But hey this is only a forum right?


All of them.

My dash cam records me asking for ID. Then it records what follows. If they say I have no ID then I'm at a decision-point. Depending on the situation I may/may not give them a ride (_especially_ if the name they give when they get in the car doesn't match the account-holders name!). If they produce a valid ID, then we're off to the races!

Thank you for your service to the country, and thank you for taking this huge risk to ensure that children get safely to their destination . . . BTW, when I drove for Radio Cab in Portland, OR, there was a cab driver who's radio handle was "Under-taker." How'd he get that name? He regularly picked up a minor and drove her to a Madam's house (got a huge tip every time, too!). So, if you know your customers well, and understand what you're getting into then I am serious when I say thank you!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> What's a driver who's being threatened with deactivation for too many cancels to do?


Decide ahead of time what jobs you will or will not accept? Make a decision tree (plan) and try to stick to it.

I understand sometimes we have to cancel after we arrive, but how many times are you doing that, and for what reasons?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Billys Bones said:


> Does anyone know of any law in any state in the US that actually prohibits TNC drivers from driving minors not accompanied by another adult? If so please identify the State and Vehicle Code or Penal Code section, etc. I am aware that stronger background checks are required for companies that primarily transport minors but I am not aware of any law that actually prohibits Uber and Lyft drivers from occasionally driving an unaccompanied minor; only company policy. I suspect that the Uber policy on this issue is only in place because Uber does not want to deal with strict background check requirements.


Excellent question!


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## Rittz19007 (Nov 2, 2016)

circle1 said:


> Excellent question!


There is no law against it yet


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Rittz19007 said:


> Not sure what your getting at Please explain


Assuming there is a law, statute or administrative law on the books that may be unclear in its application to a TNC contractor's situation . . . in some state (thank you Billy Bones), if a driver gets sued, say in Civil Court, do you/they want to be a test case?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Rittz19007 said:


> This is a hard one Like i said I think there should be some age verification for people to open accounts and and waivers for parents Who do it for there kids I dont see nothing wrong with a 16 year old getting a ride with a uber They are old enough to drive themself
> 
> But I think its safer then having a cab driver picking up your kid But if something happens like a accident Uber will put it on us


 Thank you!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Rittz19007 said:


> There is no law against it yet


Source?


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## Rittz19007 (Nov 2, 2016)

circle1 said:


> Assuming there is a law, statute or administrative law on the books that may be unclear in its application to a TNC contractor's situation . . . in some state (thank you Billy Bones), if a driver gets sued, say in Civil Court, do you/they want to be a test case?


Thats Just it there is no law Yet and there wont be in till something happens Its just like when minors use cabs buse and trains After all what going on with school bus drivers I would not be surprised to see a rise in parents using Uber for there kids But The insurance has to be there or its not worth the risk for the driver UBER wants the fare But not the bs that goes with it so yet again where the saps


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## Rittz19007 (Nov 2, 2016)

circle1 said:


> Source?


Thats just it no source because there is no law


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## Baron VonStudley (Jun 20, 2014)




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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Rittz19007 said:


> Thats just it no source because there is no law


How do you know there's no law . . . do you _feel it in your bones_?

Besides, you can't prove a negative.


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## Rittz19007 (Nov 2, 2016)

Because Ive been looking for 2 hours for one and all I could find is there is no law It would have to be a new law and Just like anything they dont make new laws unless enough people cry about it or its costing some rich guy money


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## Rittz19007 (Nov 2, 2016)

circle1 said:


> How do you know there's no law . . . do you _feel it in your bones_?
> 
> Besides, you can't prove a negative.


But just because its not against the law Still dont mean there is no risk the whole insurance thing scares the crap out of me


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Rittz19007 said:


> Because Ive been looking for 2 hours for one and all I could find is there is no law It would have to be a new law and Just like anything they dont make new laws unless enough people cry about it or its costing some rich guy money


Hmm, well, if you're using anything short of a professional legal search engine, or consulting a legal library, then you m-a-y-y have something . . . but some data bases are either kept off the Internet or require a pass word.

Good luck to everybody out there!!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Rittz19007 said:


> But just because its not against the law Still dont mean there is no risk the whole insurance thing scares the crap out of me


As well it should for any serious business owner/contractor!


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## Rittz19007 (Nov 2, 2016)

Also if it was against the law UBER would tell you flat out you risk being deactivated if you do They just want to cover there ass if there is a accident so you get sued not them Also there is rideshare companies Just for kids popping up now But as rideshare continues to grow this will come up on a more mainstream scale sadly it wont till something messed up happens Anyway UBER ON


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Rittz19007 said:


> Also if it was against the law UBER would tell you flat out you risk being deactivated if you do They just want to cover there ass if there is a accident so you get sued not them Also there is rideshare companies Just for kids popping up now But as rideshare continues to grow this will come up on a more mainstream scale sadly it wont till something messed up happens Anyway UBER ON


WOW, this is a Q.E.D.! One of the most cogent in this entire thread (on the subject of underage riders)!!

You are correct-a-mundo!

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.]


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> Do you even know what the term "politically correct" means? Because accepting or declining a rider under 18 has nothing to do with that term.
> 
> Your photo of the youths ... you ask for id. On all of them if necessary. That is the point... it ain't difficult.
> 
> And, I am not a social service for a mom or dad. They can take their own kids to and from school. It's a parenting skill.


In modern terms it is the art of speaking in a public setting as to not offend anyone. Weak and narrow minded often not the way a person truly acts but wants the public to believe they act.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

It is against the law to enter into a binding contract with a minor. One has to agree to a contract in order to ride Uber. One can't ride Uber without agreeing to the contract, which a minor cannot legally do.


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

circle1 said:


> All of them.
> 
> My dash cam records me asking for ID. Then it records what follows. If they say I have no ID then I'm at a decision-point. Depending on the situation I may/may not give them a ride (_especially_ if the name they give when they get in the car doesn't match the account-holders name!). If they produce a valid ID, then we're off to the races!
> 
> Thank you for your service to the country, and thank you for taking this huge risk to ensure that children get safely to their destination . . . BTW, when I drove for Radio Cab in Portland, OR, there was a cab driver who's radio handle was "Under-taker." How'd he get that name? He regularly picked up a minor and drove her to a Madam's house (got a huge tip every time, too!). So, if you know your customers well, and understand what you're getting into then I am serious when I say thank you!


Sounds hypocritical to me.. No id then it's decision time??? So you can tell when a teen is lying??? You are so upright you are blinded by your own need to be right. They are all in there 20's Mr. Wizard... college kids grown.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Driving and Driven said:


> It is against the law to enter into a binding contract with a minor. One has to agree to a contract in order to ride Uber. One can't ride Uber without agreeing to the contract, which a minor cannot legally do.


Correct.
The actual contract is with the account holder who is proven to be 18 or older.
God help your ass if an accident happens with any pax other than the account holder riding as pax.
Reiser, Inc. will look at the criteria after the accident and state "you were under contract to transport Joe Fielding. You transported Amanda Smith. You are deactivated, and uninsured for this incident".

The lack of wisdom and common sense in this thread freaking blows my mind.

THE ONLY THING YOU ARE COVERED FOR LEGALLY IS TO TRANSPORT THE ACCOUNT HOLDER.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking it.


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Correct.
> The actual contract is with the account holder who is proven to be 18 or older.
> God help your ass if an accident happens with any pax other than the account holder riding as pax.
> Reiser, Inc. will look at the criteria after the accident and state "you were under contract to transport Joe Fielding. You transported Amanda Smith. You are deactivated, and uninsured for this incident".
> ...


At least that is advice people can use. What if there is more then one rider. I know the waybill does not list all riders.. Are they not covered as well? Loop holes everywhere. My insurance covers me as long as I don't do it full time...

P.S. If this is true about a minor entering a contact. How was I able to obtain my own insurance policy at the age of 16? I added this as an after thought because I clearly entered a contract under age. Having second thoughts on this statement now. It sounds correct... But I do not believe it is.


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

I feel for the woman and her rebelling teen. My son is 21 now. When he was 15 and his little head started making 90% of his decisions he was a handful. Key word "he" was a handful... not everyone he manipulated into getting his way with whatever he was trying to do.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Speedyracer said:


> At least that is advice people can use. What if there is more then one rider. I know the waybill does not list all riders.. Are they not covered as well? Loop holes everywhere. My insurance covers me as long as I don't do it full time...
> 
> P.S. If this is true about a minor entering a contact. How was I able to obtain my own insurance policy at the age of 16? I added this as an after thought because I clearly entered a contract under age. Having second thoughts on this statement now. It sounds correct... But I do not believe it is.


You began this post using Occam's razor and rational thought.
You ended on belief.
The law could care less about what you believe.
Insurance laws differ from state to state.
It's possible you had a contract at 16 by yourself with an insurance company. If this is so they underwrote you for a $5000 deductible which would have been higher than the value of your junker.

It's more likely your mom or dad cosigned the policy and were the default contract holder.
In either case, the insurance company wasn't going to lose a dime.
They have people called actuaries who make sure they rarely pay out and make a profit at the end of the day.
I've been operating licensed taxis which I own for 14 years and you would be amazed at what the insurance company squirms out of because they can.
Uber represents a set of loopholes the size of the moon.
If you deviate from contract one iota you bet yer brown baby booties the insurance companies involved are going to wash their hands Pontus Pilate style and leave the Uber driver high and dry, without coverage.


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> You began this post using Occam's razor and rational thought.
> You ended on belief.
> The law could care less about what you believe.
> Insurance laws differ from state to state.
> ...


Fair enough... I have no doubt of uber or any large corporation and it's loop holes to wiggle out of trouble. It was nearly 30 years ago and I can't remember if it was a cosign deal .. So no argument. I just do not agree with a person going after an uber/ lyft/ taxi driver for the actions of a rebelling teen that manipulates the system.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Speedyracer said:


> Fair enough... I have no doubt of uber or any large corporation and it's loop holes to wiggle out of trouble. It was nearly 30 years ago and I can't remember if it was a cosign deal .. So no argument. I just do not agree with a person going after an uber/ lyft/ taxi driver for the actions of a rebelling teen that manipulates the system.


All I'm saying is CYA, man.
After almost 19 years in a cab I follow this adage.
"If something looks or feels wrong, it probably is".


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

circle1 said:


> _*THIS*_ ^


If any of you have ever been involved in a accident that was not your fault, you should know by now that the insurance company will find any excuse not to pay all the while passing the blame and making you play the waiting game. A clear violation of uber policy is a easy way out for the insurance.


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## yojimboguy (Mar 2, 2016)

Has anyone yet thanked the OP for calling a driver who picks up a pax whose gender doesn't seem to match the account name a "kidnapper"?

Really, thanks!


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> All I'm saying is CYA, man.
> After almost 19 years in a cab I follow this adage.
> "If something looks or feels wrong, it probably is".


20 + years here in the driving industry class A... Less then 1 year transporting people. So I've seen my fair share on the road. Just a different platform... And know the CYA theory. I also know the job often has to get done. He could of just thought he was picking up a college age girl at 1:30 in the morning and her boyfriend was paying which does happen (yes I see the insurance issue you've pointed out). If he saw her climbing out the window.. Then yes cya applies and he is an @ss. We're hearing one side, an angry parents side.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Angry irresponsible parents side.....looking to blame anyone they can except themselves.


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

I would strongly strongly advise that you actually talk to your daughter and find out what she is doing online,

before you get the police involved I will not say any more on that.


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## UberAnt39 (Jun 1, 2016)

Now she's back, lock the window.


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> It is against the law to enter into a binding contract with a minor. One has to agree to a contract in order to ride Uber. One can't ride Uber without agreeing to the contract, which a minor cannot legally do.


Not true. It is legal to enter into a contract with a minor. Once entered into, the contract is binding on the adult but voidable by the minor.


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## UberAnt39 (Jun 1, 2016)

It's illegal to drive an unaccompanied minor, so I'd guess it's not possible to enter into a contract, voidable or otherwise, to do so.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

The actual contract is not with the minor. A minor cannot be an Uber account holder.
Your actual contract is with the account holder.
Once the account holder fails to be the pax, the contract is null and void.

People are stupid.
How many posts have you read here where the driver says "I was halfway through the trip and the actual account holder CANCELLED!"
Some pax are cruel and know how contract law works, so they send the GF in their contracted Uber then cancel because the Uber picked up the wrong person.

You know what? I side with the jerk pax on this.
IF YOU ARE TOO STUPID OR NAIVE TO TAKE A PERSON WHO IS NOT THE ACCOUNT HOLDER ITS ON YOU WHATEVER HAPPENS.


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> The actual contract is not with the minor. A minor cannot be an Uber account holder.
> Your actual contract is with the account holder.
> Once the account holder fails to be the pax, the contract is null and void.
> 
> ...


Sometimes I think even "Red Foreman" love isn't enough to wake up some of these.. yadayadya drivers.


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

UberAnt39 said:


> It's illegal to drive an unaccompanied minor, so I'd guess it's not possible to enter into a contract, voidable or otherwise, to do so.


I don't think so. If true, please identify the penal code, vehicle code or other code, federal or state, that prohibits an adult TNC driver from driving an unaccompanied minor.


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

Seems odd the one yelling the most saying what can and mostly can not be done by ride share workers is a cab company owner. Sounds more and more like an uber forum troll inciting fear into people that will listen.


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> The actual contract is not with the minor. A minor cannot be an Uber account holder.
> Your actual contract is with the account holder.
> Once the account holder fails to be the pax, the contract is null and void.
> 
> ...


Not smart if you ever want to see that girl again. I got a cancel part way into a ride. Immediately dropped at the curb in the middle of the night in an area you need a gun to survive.


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

I just looked at ubers policy and was tickled pink to see the exact wording of it..
As a partner you "should" decline if you "believe" the person is a minor. You "may" ask for ID if you "believe" the passenger is a minor.

That line of swiss cheese has so many holes in it. It works both ways.
If I believe? I don't think half the drivers out there could tell a 20 year old from a 16 year old if there life depended on it.
It didn't say you must decline. It doesn't even say you must ask for ID. So if policy prohibits minors from joining then asking verification of the account name should be verification in itself. Swiss cheese if I do say so myself


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

Um... it probably does not help to say that I don't have kids, but I remember very well being a teen-aged boy and thinking with all my being that I was both invincible and immortal. It's the growth hormones, I believe, that cause this thinking. Just like athletes on steroids do outrageous and crazy and sometimes criminally violent things, so too do teenagers think that nothing bad can happen to them.

It seems so strange to read here that your daughter would be treated as an adult at the age of 16.... more and more articles that I read place the age of mature adulthood at 21 or later. Even Donald Trump is thinking about allowing kids to stay on their parent's health insurance plans until they are 26 "in other words, adults": CBS news radio 880

I think that utilizing the local police department is one possible solution. This perp may have been involved with other girls like your daughter. Only the cops would know if there was a pattern of behavior. Trying to reason with your kid seems to be the preferred answer here... but I was beyond reason when I was 18. I was #2 in the Vietnam draft lottery and I KNEW my ass was going to be shot to hell in Vietnam. I did a lot of risky things based on that premise. A parent can never really know what is going on in a teen-agers mind, and a teen-ager may well be afraid that speaking candidly about her thoughts and motivations might cause trouble for herself and pain to others.

It took me until I was 55 to stop being crazy.... but my Dad never did see any merit in psychotherapy... I had to go thru some hard times to learn some serious truths. Hopefully your daughter will have an easier road to walk.


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## DriverX (Aug 5, 2015)

Its Unfortunate that Drivers are being put in this situation but any 16yo girl with enough make up on is going to appear to be 18 especially in the dark. This isn't the drivers fault. Direct your anger at Uber for not having better policies and the guy involved.

WHy not just demand your daughter to tell you who this A hole is and then go pay him a visit?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Billys Bones said:


> Don't cancel. The other night I had to argue with a pax about who was going to cancel after I refused the ride. He said I needed to cancel. I said no and drove off knowing he still needed a ride. He cancelled before I got out of the neighborhood.


It doesn't necessarily matter whether you or the pax cancel. It can still count against you.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

circle1 said:


> Decide ahead of time what jobs you will or will not accept? Make a decision tree (plan) and try to stick to it.
> 
> I understand sometimes we have to cancel after we arrive, but how many times are you doing that, and for what reasons?


It's not about ME and you're missing my point. Drivers who are in areas where they get many calls to pick up minors risk deactivation by not taking them. Uber's way of handling pax trying to get drivers to do things that are illegal, dangerous, against the TOS and so on puts drivers in a bad position.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Driving and Driven said:


> It is against the law to enter into a binding contract with a minor. One has to agree to a contract in order to ride Uber. One can't ride Uber without agreeing to the contract, which a minor cannot legally do.


No you don't have to have a contract to ride in an uber. You can ride on someone else's account if they call the uber for you. They're just not supposed to do that if you're a minor.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> The actual contract is not with the minor. A minor cannot be an Uber account holder.
> Your actual contract is with the account holder.
> Once the account holder fails to be the pax, the contract is null and void.
> 
> ...


How do you EVER know who the account holder is without seeing an ID? And even thdn, since we only have the FIRST name we can't be 100% sure.

Beyond the pax knowing the account holders and my name I have no way of knowing if they're the account holder.

Besides, the only contract I have is with uber. I have none with the pax, even though uber claims they're just a gobetween. How can I when we don't even know each others name? I don't even use my real first name and neither do many of the pax.


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> It doesn't necessarily matter whether you or the pax cancel. It can still count against you.


 Uber sent me a thank you note for changing my ways and getting my cancel % down. They also paid me the cancel fee even after the guy complained about it.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

yojimboguy said:


> Has anyone yet thanked the OP for calling a driver who picks up a pax whose gender doesn't seem to match the account name a "kidnapper"?
> 
> Really, thanks!


Speedy racer, you sound like a person who knows he/she is breaking the rules and is grasping at anything to justify yourself.

"I had a contract at 26" .. well, it was 30 years ago, I don't remember everything.

The legal question.... yes, there are laws and regulations.. To those who ask where.... do your own Dam homework. Search some of the UP threads. Or State laws, not google searches.

Hint: in California it's under CUPC codes.

And those worried about cancel stats ... I'm thinking you have bigger issues than how cancelling the teens are going to affect you.
OR, Uber is sending you way to many under-18 riders. If so, and you don't cancel you are enabling Uber's bad behavior. And going against their TOS.



Speedyracer said:


> In modern terms it is the art of speaking in a public setting as to not offend anyone. Weak and narrow minded often not the way a person truly acts but wants the public to believe they act.


And that definition is really nice coming from the Internet. Now, how does its apply to the question at hand, giving rides to those who are not eligible.


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## Chris1962 (Nov 7, 2016)

As a parent I can tell you what I would do. The male in question would not be able to use the app to get an Uber when I was done because his fingers would not be in any shape to handle a cell phone or keyboard. If I couldn't do it, I'd find somebody that could. If this is not something you feel comfortable doing then certainly get the police involved.


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## yeahTHATuberGVL (Mar 18, 2016)

GrinsNgiggles said:


> New service... uberTherapy


At 75% less than normal therapists! Rate your UberThinks therapist 5 stars so they know you appreciate their advice!


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## CatchyMusicLover (Sep 18, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Besides, the only contract I have is with uber. I have none with the pax, even though uber claims they're just a gobetween. How can I when we don't even know each others name? I don't even use my real first name and neither do many of the pax.


Not just that, but even if the contract WAS with the account holder it would be with THE ACCOUNT HOLDER, unrelated to who the driver is actually transporting. Someone who isn;t the account holder getting in doesn't change the 'contract' terms, the contract is to provide a ride to [X people the account holder wishes] from point A to B....be they he account holder alone, the account holder with three others, the account holder's boyfriend, or the account holder's daughter.

Incidently I wonder where the poster who drives a cab in DC is (I believe it's Another Uber Driver?) -- he has said before that, at least there, children as young as 12 can ride alone in a cab with no problem.....seems odd, then, that rideshare PAX would have to be 18 (regardless of company policy which is a separate issue)


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## yeahTHATuberGVL (Mar 18, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Simple solution is:
> NEVER take a pax who isnt the account holder.


Uber actually encourages rider accounts to order rides for friends. It's a topic thru Uber's online help. They clearly are rider centric in their decision making.

https://help.uber.com/h/454187f4-9b4e-4f9e-8dac-60b04910e8bc


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> Speedy racer, you sound like a person who knows he/she is breaking the rules and is grasping at anything to justify yourself.
> 
> "I had a contract at 26" .. well, it was 30 years ago, I don't remember everything.
> 
> ...


This is funny... Laughable. You didn't even quote me correctly and try and dismiss what I've said. I went straight to uber policy.. Quoted uber policy and clearly said it was full of holes. If someone gets in my car and states they are the account holder... By ubers own words they should be 18. As policy states no one under 18 can have an account.
I'm not in California and there are no regulations on picking up minors in my state... In fact there are side uber models popping up left and right that specialize in minor transport. So know the law yourself before you try and slam me.
My insurance not uber covers me. So that argument is void also.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

2Peaks said:


> Speedy racer, you sound like a person who knows he/she is breaking the rules and is grasping at anything to justify yourself.
> 
> "I had a contract at 26" .. well, it was 30 years ago, I don't remember everything.
> 
> ...


I don't have an issue with cancels. I barely drive anymore anyway.

But you made my point: a driver shouldn't have to have cancels count against them in ANY fashion by doing what Uber SUPPOSEDLY wants them to (cancel on minors). And although I haven't had a lot of kids trying to get me to carry them I can imagine the likelihood depends on the area.

It's also an issue with pax trying to fit too msny in the car, trying to carry drinks, wanting to be picked up when they are puking drunk (which is public intoxication btw), and any other number of things that can unfairly count against us if we cancel (and, in other ways, if we don't).


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Chris1962 said:


> As a parent I can tell you what I would do. The male in question would not be able to use the app to get an Uber when I was done because his fingers would not be in any shape to handle a cell phone or keyboard. If I couldn't do it, I'd find somebody that could. If this is not something you feel comfortable doing then certainly get the police involved.


As I pointed out before, the app holder could be an 18 year old who was simply at a party the 16 year old wanted to attend.

The OP said NOTHING beyond "older male." There was NO mention of sex or any nefarious intentions by this man. All that has simply been inferred throughout this thread.

The OP mentioned kidnapping, but not in reference to THIS instance, as a "what if" scenario in future.

You guys should simmer down with your macho threats about what you would do to this unknown male, who, so far as we know, only ordered a ride for someone. He probably doesn't even know it's against uber TOS. He might not know the girl didn't have permission to leave. We know NOTHING about all of this. The OP actually gave out very little info and you have been salivating at the bit with your fantasies of what you would do to this unknown male.

Btw if you have a 16 year old daughter and you beat up, cripple or kill her boyfriend (of any age) how does that end well? Will she be grateful? Will he simply accept your dominance? What if he's bigger and badder than you?

This is silly internet posturing. Sheesh.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> How many posts have you read here where the driver says "I was halfway through the trip and the actual account holder CANCELLED!"
> Some pax are cruel and know how contract law works, so they send the GF in their contracted Uber then cancel because the Uber picked up the wrong person.
> 
> You know what? I side with the jerk pax on this.
> IF YOU ARE TOO STUPID OR NAIVE TO TAKE A PERSON WHO IS NOT THE ACCOUNT HOLDER ITS ON YOU WHATEVER HAPPENS.





Fuzzyelvis said:


> How do you EVER know who the account holder is without seeing an ID? And even thdn, since we only have the FIRST name we can't be 100% sure.
> 
> Beyond the pax knowing the account holders and my name I have no way of knowing if they're the account holder.
> 
> Besides, the only contract I have is with uber. I have none with the pax, even though uber claims they're just a gobetween. How can I when we don't even know each others name? I don't even use my real first name and neither do many of the pax.


Any time I get a pax that says they are not the account holder, I text the number on the account and tell them to text me back that they [Account Holder Name] Authorizes [Pax Name] to take an Uber under their account. Most people won't even admit it's not their account unless it's a blatant, like a girl pax with Mike as the account holder name.

I've never had to use that text as proof, but I'd rather be safe than sorry and I've never had anyone object to sending me that text.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> Any time I get a pax that says they are not the account holder, I text the number on the account and tell them to text me back that they [Account Holder Name] Authorizes [Pax Name] to take an Uber under their account. Most people won't even admit it's not their account unless it's a blatant, like a girl pax with Mike as the account holder name.
> 
> I've never had to use that text as proof, but I'd rather be safe than sorry and I've never had anyone object to sending me that text.


That's some good thinking outside the box.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> That's some good thinking outside the box.


Yup, and it's great because it runs it through the Uber System so they have a record of it within their own system.

It's also a good way to confirm multiple drop offs. I had a set of 4 guys that needed 4 different drop off. The account holder was the 2nd drop off. So while I was able to get him to change the address of the app 3 times, he wouldn't be available for the 4th drop off. So I told him to text me from his account phone, which he did while we were driving, that he [Account Holder Name] Authorizes 4th Drop off location of [4th Pax name] At [4th Pax Address] that way if there were a chance that they dispute it, I was covered.


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## Chris1962 (Nov 7, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> As I pointed out before, the app holder could be an 18 year old who was simply at a party the 16 year old wanted to attend.
> 
> The OP said NOTHING beyond "older male." There was NO mention of sex or any nefarious intentions by this man. All that has simply been inferred throughout this thread.
> 
> ...


Call it what you want. I spent 25 years in the prison system dealing with pedophiles and have no use for them. An adult male aiding and abetting a minor female to sneak out at night ain't having her come over to play Uno. If you naive enough to think that's the case then I pitty your kids.


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## dubz (Aug 2, 2015)

Mom82of2 - Sorry Original poster, but I don't interrogate pax. I can only guarantee their safety while they are inside of my vehicle. I don't pry into their business. And I don't ask what their age is. 
We UBER drivers cannot parent other folks children. It would be severely overstepping. We have no authority to police the actions of others. You may appreciate our act of doing so, but the next parent may say we are totally wrong for interfering. The requestor of the ride will definitely say we are interfering and say who knows what else to cause us problems. Simply being accused of a crime can cause so much problems for people that it is simply not worth attempting to give guidance to a stranger child.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Just had a contract dispute issue.
My company, "Acme" Cab, has a contract with "Acme" trucking transport.
We shuttle their transport drivers from airports and hotels to truck yard etc...
I pulled up to the curb at the airport.
John was there with a buddy.
"Guys, I have one rider and one destination on my CMT data pad. What's up?"
The 2nd rider tried to bully his way into my cab but I wasn't having it.
"Let me call dispatch" and I did.
"Sir, dispatch says cab 1202 will be here momentarily. Have a nice day.

2nd job, 2nd destination, separate cab, separate job number etc etc etc...
The guy would have cost several people a meal by getting into my cab unauthorized. And I would have grossed the same $24.

Sometimes, using your brain is definitely the right thing to do.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

dubz said:


> Mom82of2 - Sorry Original poster, but I don't interrogate pax. I can only guarantee their safety while they are inside of my vehicle. I don't pry into their business. And I don't ask what their age is.
> We UBER drivers cannot parent other folks children. It would be severely overstepping. We have no authority to police the actions of others. You may appreciate our act of doing so, but the next parent may say we are totally wrong for interfering. The requestor of the ride will definitely say we are interfering and say who knows what else to cause us problems. Simply being accused of a crime can cause so much problems for people that it is simply not worth attempting to give guidance to a stranger child.


Wow just wow.
I'm gonna do some "banking" tomorrow.
Ask me no questions...
I'll tell you no lies.
Just drive.
I appreciate your candor, you are exactly the getaway er Uber driver we need at a time like this.

"Useful Idiots" indeed, Karl Marx.


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## dubz (Aug 2, 2015)

Well, TwoFiddyMile you run your rig how you wish, and I'll run mine how I do. That's the beauty and the downfall of it all.
It is NOT societies responsibility to attempt to raise other peoples children. @16 yrs the foundation is already cured and settled. Mom should've taught the lessons at 2 - 10.
Ain't it great to be in AmeriKKKa.


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## Chris1962 (Nov 7, 2016)

dubz said:


> Mom82of2 - Sorry Original poster, but I don't interrogate pax. I can only guarantee their safety while they are inside of my vehicle. I don't pry into their business. And I don't ask what their age is.
> We UBER drivers cannot parent other folks children. It would be severely overstepping. We have no authority to police the actions of others. You may appreciate our act of doing so, but the next parent may say we are totally wrong for interfering. The requestor of the ride will definitely say we are interfering and say who knows what else to cause us problems. Simply being accused of a crime can cause so much problems for people that it is simply not worth attempting to give guidance to a stranger child.


While I agree the parent takes some responsibility, let me know how your opinion works out for you when something happens to a minor you transported in violation of Uber policy and you get taken to civil court. If I knew or should have known they were minors I wouldnt sit in front of a jury and quote what you just posted.


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## dubz (Aug 2, 2015)

Chris1962 said:


> While I agree the parent takes some responsibility, let me know how your opinion works out for you when something happens to a minor you transported in violation of Uber policy and you get taken to civil court. If I knew or should have known they were minors I wouldn't sit in front of a jury and quote what you just posted.


That, my dear friend is where I'd plead the 5th... However, a 16 year old would more than likely pass as at least 18. Any lawyer worth his salt could argue that in court. Further, there is no policy requiring us to check id . If the person knows the requestor's name then its a go. Furthermore, how am I to know this is not the true requestor. It is UBER'S responsibility to verify the PAX is 18 or older, and I bet, just as the pron sites do, they have policies that say if you have a credit card then you are at least the minimum required age. 
Bottom line, the liability falls upon UBER, therefore UBER would need to be doing the explaining.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Chris1962 said:


> Call it what you want. I spent 25 years in the prison system dealing with pedophiles and have no use for them. An adult male aiding and abetting a minor female to sneak out at night ain't having her come over to play Uno. If you naive enough to think that's the case then I pitty your kids.


You would call an 18 year old calling an uber for a 16 year old, (and we have NO idea if there was any thought of sex onvolved), a pedophile?

Are you just missing my point entirely?

BTW when I was 16 I had plenty of older friends due to skipping grades. We hung out in groups mostly. One of my best friends (still in touch 35 years later) was (and is of course) gay. If there'd been uber I'm sure he would have called one for me instead if having to drive his gas guzzling car to come pick me up.

My mother once called all my friends to make sure we weren't sitting around drinking and doing drugs. She found me at a friend's house with the other members of the Latin club. We little nerds were translating Latin poetry for fun. So much fun we lost track of time. No alcohol, drugs or sex was involved.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

None of this matters. The age of consent in Georgia is 16. Case closed. If the OP wants things to change, she'll have to be a better parent. Nothing Uber nor the Law can do in this case.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

steveK2016 said:


> Any time I get a pax that says they are not the account holder, I text the number on the account and tell them to text me back that they [Account Holder Name] Authorizes [Pax Name] to take an Uber under their account. Most people won't even admit it's not their account unless it's a blatant, like a girl pax with Mike as the account holder name.
> 
> I've never had to use that text as proof, but I'd rather be safe than sorry and I've never had anyone object to sending me that text.


But most don't tell and unless you ask you would never know.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> But most don't tell and unless you ask you would never know.


Yea, I get that. I only can do it if they admit it or if it's obvious. I call or text my pax more times than not, rather just call and make sure they're ready. Most of the time, that'll tell you if the account holder is request.

Usually it'll be "I'll be out in a second" indicating the one you are talking to is physically going to be in your car or "He'll be down in a second" in which case, they may be requesting for a 3rd party. That's when I say "Please text me authorizing.... blah blah blah"

Sure, there are probably countless times where it's happen and we don't know about, especially if they are waiting at the pin. Now way to eliminate the risk completely, but if you know, best get authorization.


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## Chris1962 (Nov 7, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> You would call an 18 year old calling an uber for a 16 year old, (and we have NO idea if there was any thought of sex onvolved), a pedophile?
> 
> Are you just missing my point entirely?
> 
> ...


I hope it never happens to you, but if it does and that's your story...dont forget to take your checkbook!


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## Chris1962 (Nov 7, 2016)

Civil court is much different than criminal court. If they are not pursuing criminal charges you don't get to plead the 5th. You are correct they will likely go after Uber as well as the driver. If a jury finds you 30% at fault and Uber 70% at fault on a 1 million dollar settlement, what do you think the chances are Uber will pay your 300k?

On the chance you end up with zero responsibility, how much in lawyer fees did it cost you to do that? I don't know about you, but I don't make enough driving to pay a lawyer 200 bucks an hour.

All this and the stress when all you had to do was ask for ID and say no. But hey, if a $5 fare is worth rolling those dice to you, go for it.


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## metal_orion (May 14, 2015)

jp300h said:


> I am usually pretty straightforward and to the point...which means people tend to be offended what I have to say sometimes. In this scenario the OP comes across as someone I too would want to escape from from. When she didn't get the exact answers she wanted, she immediately went into aggressive, professionally offended mode.
> There are way too many facts left unknown to play armchair judge, jury and executioner. She keeps saying "older male" that could be 17, 18, 105...we don't know. It may not even be a male at all. It could be a girl friend of hers (or 17 yo male friend) with access to a family member's uber account.
> 
> When people clearly stated the truth that simply calling uber won't fix this specific problem, she gets upset.
> ...


http://i.imgur.com/JSBTl.gif


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Chris1962 said:


> Civil court is much different than criminal court. If they are not pursuing criminal charges you don't get to plead the 5th. You are correct they will likely go after Uber as well as the driver. If a jury finds you 30% at fault and Uber 70% at fault on a 1 million dollar settlement, what do you think the chances are Uber will pay your 300k?
> 
> On the chance you end up with zero responsibility, how much in lawyer fees did it cost you to do that? I don't know about you, but I don't make enough driving to pay a lawyer 200 bucks an hour.
> 
> All this and the stress when all you had to do was ask for ID and say no. But hey, if a $5 fare is worth rolling those dice to you, go for it.


It's the new face of today's bold blindfolded Uber driver.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

Chris1962 said:


> Civil court is much different than criminal court. If they are not pursuing criminal charges you don't get to plead the 5th. You are correct they will likely go after Uber as well as the driver. If a jury finds you 30% at fault and Uber 70% at fault on a 1 million dollar settlement, what do you think the chances are Uber will pay your 300k?
> 
> On the chance you end up with zero responsibility, how much in lawyer fees did it cost you to do that? I don't know about you, but I don't make enough driving to pay a lawyer 200 bucks an hour.
> 
> All this and the stress when all you had to do was ask for ID and say no. But hey, if a $5 fare is worth rolling those dice to you, go for it.


*****************************************************************************************************************************************
That's pretty much my attitude when it comes to driving at night, or during bad weather... Even a fender bender is not worth the risk just for a few bucks.


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## LASAC_BER (May 19, 2016)

Chris1962 said:


> Civil court is much different than criminal court. If they are not pursuing criminal charges you don't get to plead the 5th. You are correct they will likely go after Uber as well as the driver. If a jury finds you 30% at fault and Uber 70% at fault on a 1 million dollar settlement, what do you think the chances are Uber will pay your 300k?
> 
> On the chance you end up with zero responsibility, how much in lawyer fees did it cost you to do that? I don't know about you, but I don't make enough driving to pay a lawyer 200 bucks an hour.
> 
> All this and the stress when all you had to do was ask for ID and say no. But hey, if a $5 fare is worth rolling those dice to you, go for it.


Looks like it is worth 'rolling the dice' for uber for $5, too, or they'd have better client identification setup.


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## Tripwire (Oct 28, 2015)

elelegido said:


> How do you know it was paid for by an older male account holder?


Just came across this thread, it's probably been covered, but why not file a TRO on the male?

Also, I try to not give minors rides, but a couple have slipped through, I'm sure. So don't go all nuclear on the driver, at that time of night I would assume she is all good.


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## GoatLove (Jul 29, 2016)

Poster is fake, move along.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Chris1962 said:


> Civil court is much different than criminal court. If they are not pursuing criminal charges you don't get to plead the 5th. You are correct they will likely go after Uber as well as the driver. If a jury finds you 30% at fault and Uber 70% at fault on a 1 million dollar settlement, what do you think the chances are Uber will pay your 300k?
> 
> On the chance you end up with zero responsibility, how much in lawyer fees did it cost you to do that? I don't know about you, but I don't make enough driving to pay a lawyer 200 bucks an hour.
> 
> All this and the stress when all you had to do was ask for ID and say no. But hey, if a $5 fare is worth rolling those dice to you, go for it.


I've challenged anybody on this board for some time now to show me a documented case where an Uber driver was deactivated or sued for transporting a minor or where Uber's insurance failed to cover a minor in an accident. I'm still waiting.


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

Coachman said:


> I've challenged anybody on this board for some time now to show me a documented case where an Uber driver was deactivated or sued for transporting a minor or where Uber's insurance failed to cover a minor in an accident. I'm still waiting.


 Me too; apparently all people can do is assume it's not legal. No one can apparently find or cite any law supporting their assumption that transporting unaccompanied minors is prohibited by law.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Bulky Bones, I said it earlier, do your own homework. Start with the California CUPC. 
Coach ... What is your point? Zero happenings in the past is not a predictor of zero happenings in the future. 20 years ago AOL probably said there is not one case of a child being seduced by an adult over the Internet. 

And considering the relative newness of TNC driving compared to the time it takes a court case to move through the system, it is possible that some jurisdictions have these cases on the docket. 

Personally, I have asked many younger kids their age and asked for ID. Only one was at least 18, and he was just 18.


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## CatchyMusicLover (Sep 18, 2015)

steveK2016 said:


> Most people won't even admit it's not their account unless it's a blatant, like a girl pax with Mike as the account holder name.
> .


Odd you say that, I've met a girl named Mike...though I'm not sure she spelled it that way.


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## steveK2016 (Jul 31, 2016)

CatchyMusicLover said:


> Odd you say that, I've met a girl named Mike...though I'm not sure she spelled it that way.


You sure that was a girl....?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> It is against the law to enter into a binding contract with a minor. One has to agree to a contract in order to ride Uber. One can't ride Uber without agreeing to the contract, which a minor cannot legally do.


It's not against the law, but contracts made with minors are null-and-void.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

steveK2016 said:


> You sure that was a girl....?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Speedyracer said:


> Sounds hypocritical to me.. No id then it's decision time??? So you can tell when a teen is lying??? You are so upright you are blinded by your own need to be right. They are all in there 20's Mr. Wizard... college kids grown.


No hypocrisy. I'm reserving my right as an independent contractor to make that call . . . doesn't matter how old the people in that picture are, if I want to ask for ID I will. Also, from discussions on this thread, it appears (thanks to Rittz19007's brilliant epiphany) that there may in fact be no specific laws governing TNC drivers giving rides to unaccompanied minors.

. . . But there most certainly is _*a big risk*_ doing this from an insurance-coverage perspective! Do you think your insurance company will pay-out when you get into an accident with an unaccompanied minor in the car? And for those of you out there who've purchased business insurance to cover you from fraudulent claims, what do think will happen when a 17 year-old claims you attempted some fill-in-the-blank crime against them??


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Chris1962 said:


> Civil court is much different than criminal court. If they are not pursuing criminal charges you don't get to plead the 5th. You are correct they will likely go after Uber as well as the driver. If a jury finds you 30% at fault and Uber 70% at fault on a 1 million dollar settlement, what do you think the chances are Uber will pay your 300k?
> 
> On the chance you end up with zero responsibility, how much in lawyer fees did it cost you to do that? I don't know about you, but I don't make enough driving to pay a lawyer 200 bucks an hour.
> 
> All this and the stress when all you had to do was ask for ID and say no. But hey, if a $5 fare is worth rolling those dice to you, go for it.


If you're that worried you probably shouldn't be driving ANYONE, quite honestly.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Correct.
> The actual contract is with the account holder who is proven to be 18 or older.
> God help your ass if an accident happens with any pax other than the account holder riding as pax.
> Reiser, Inc. will look at the criteria after the accident and state "you were under contract to transport Joe Fielding. You transported Amanda Smith. You are deactivated, and uninsured for this incident".
> ...


^
. . . that s-h-o-u-l-d be the end of this discussion.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

circle1 said:


> ^
> . . . that s-h-o-u-l-d be the end of this discussion.


Where is my contract with the account holder, pray tell?

We don't even know each others names.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Where is my contract with the account holder, pray tell?
> 
> We don't even know each others names.


Now we are wading-into legal minutia. I'll go out on a limb and say that the contract is implied through our contract with the TNC . . . some sort of "line-of-consent" or "chain-of-custody" some-such jargon (I don't know just made it up!).


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

I feel bad for all the uber drivers out there that actually think the bitter ex/current cabby drivers on this forum have anything except a sour taste in there mouth after being knocked off there pedestal by uber and it's drivers.
Look at many of the threads... The same ones over and over talking about how uber drivers can't do this.. Shouldn't do that. Trolls.

Sorry guys but I'm not a mindless...


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

UberAnt39 said:


> It's illegal to drive an unaccompanied minor, so I'd guess it's not possible to enter into a contract, voidable or otherwise, to do so.


. . . We've been searching to no avail to find any law pertaining to this . . . any information would be greatly appreciated!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Drivers who are in areas where they get many calls to pick up minors risk deactivation by not taking them. Uber's way of handling pax trying to get drivers to do things that are illegal, dangerous, against the TOS and so on puts drivers in a bad position.


. . . Wait . . . you're saying that a driver adhering to Uber's policies risks deactivation [I want to make sure I'm understanding your post correctly this is not _ad hominem_]?

- Arrive at destination
- ask passenger to verify they are account holder
- passenger demures and/or reveals they are in fact not the account holder and/or refuses to produce ID
- drivers sends alert to Uber reporting this suspicious/fraudulent behavior
- Uber counts this _*against*_ the driver??


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

circle1 said:


> . . . We've been searching to no avail to find any law pertaining to this . . . any information would be greatly appreciated!


It does not exist in my state. In fact uber-like companies are popping up all over that only ride unaccompanied minors.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> No you don't have to have a contract to ride in an uber. You can ride on someone else's account if they call the uber for you. They're just not supposed to do that if you're a minor.


Contract is implied.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

dubz said:


> That, my dear friend is where I'd plead the 5th... However, a 16 year old would more than likely pass as at least 18. Any lawyer worth his salt could argue that in court. Further, there is no policy requiring us to check id . If the person knows the requestor's name then its a go. Furthermore, how am I to know this is not the true requestor. It is UBER'S responsibility to verify the PAX is 18 or older, and I bet, just as the pron sites do, they have policies that say if you have a credit card then you are at least the minimum required age.
> Bottom line, the liability falls upon UBER, therefore UBER would need to be doing the explaining.


O-o.k., if you have the spare $$$ for a lawyer, and a spare 100 hours or so out your life to go through the hell that would be your life for about a year or more, then go for it my friend!

"_*For want of a nail*_ . . ."


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Chris1962 said:


> On the chance you end up with zero responsibility, how much in lawyer fees did it cost you to do that? I don't know about you, but I don't make enough driving to pay a lawyer 200 bucks an hour.
> 
> All this and the stress when all you had to do was ask for ID and say no. But hey, if a $5 fare is worth rolling those dice to you, go for it.


LOL, $200/hour?! Let me know where you can find a law firm with a good litigation track record for that low!


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

You can drop your 14 y/o off at Disneyland and they can ride on all the rides all day unaccompanied. But they can't take an Uber?


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> Bulky Bones, I said it earlier, do your own homework.


My pic speaks for itself and I don't like homework


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Billys Bones said:


> My pic speaks for itself and I don't like homework


The pic shows there is nothing where most people have brains, so, perhaps it speaks the truth? 
Don't assume something doesn't exist just because you are too lazy to look for it.

Coachman, apples and oranges.

Speedman, not an ex-cabbie here. I hope you are enjoying your nubile trips waiting with all the moms in the school drop-off lines. Or making your runs to the skateboard park. If I get behind you on a freeway I'll recognize you right away ... The bumper sticker will say "Mom's Taxi".


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## Chris1962 (Nov 7, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> If you're that worried you probably shouldn't be driving ANYONE, quite honestly.


Not worried just not willing to take that kind of chance. There are any number of problems that can arise from letting a kid you don't know in your car. I also insist on car seats for toddlers and won't allow open alcohol. It's called common sense.


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## CrazyT (Jul 2, 2016)

CatchyMusicLover said:


> Odd you say that, I've met a girl named Mike...though I'm not sure she spelled it that way.


Here I have a pax with the name Nicole and the pax is a guy. We were talking and I asked if this was a friend or a spelling that isn't pronounced that way. Turns out he's in transition and hasn't dealt with the name yet.


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> The pic shows there is nothing where most people have brains, so, perhaps it speaks the truth?
> Don't assume something doesn't exist just because you are too lazy to look for it.
> 
> Coachman, apples and oranges.
> ...


Moms are delicious.


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> The pic shows there is nothing where most people have brains...


lol. I am feeling a bit dehydrated


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

http://ubermovement.com/cpuc-video/

Unaccompanied minors:

In California, due to CPUC requirements, you cannot transport an unaccompanied minor on trips arranged through the Uber app. Keep in mind that in California, a rider must be over 18 to sign up for an Uber account, but if you believe a rider might be underage, you can ask them to confirm their age and let them know that you will have to cancel the trip if they are indeed under 18. In addition, you can report requests to transport unaccompanied minors by submitting in-app feedback.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


If I young person approaches my car, I ask the kid her age, if she says she is under 18, I won't take her without an adult. If she is crawling through a window, I would assume she is underage and wouldn't take her. But, other drivers do, all the time, against Uber policy. This is a tough one, and Uber is a behemoth, difficult to communicate with. I would make a LOT OF NOISE, take it to local news stations, get this story on the air, Uber will notice, you gotta do this, it's the only way to wake up this organization that has no mechanism for this kind of thing.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

observer said:


> http://ubermovement.com/cpuc-video/
> 
> Unaccompanied minors:
> 
> In California, due to CPUC requirements, you cannot transport an unaccompanied minor on trips arranged through the Uber app. Keep in mind that in California, a rider must be over 18 to sign up for an Uber account, but if you believe a rider might be underage, you can ask them to confirm their age and let them know that you will have to cancel the trip if they are indeed under 18. In addition, you can report requests to transport unaccompanied minors by submitting in-app feedback.


Excellent work.

. . . and let the fraudulent user cancel!


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

circle1 said:


> . . . Wait . . . you're saying that a driver adhering to Uber's policies risks deactivation [I want to make sure I'm understanding your post correctly this is not _ad hominem_]?
> 
> - Arrive at destination
> - ask passenger to verify they are account holder
> ...


Well unless you know a way to cancel the trip without it being a bad mark on your permanent record.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Well unless you know a way to cancel the trip without it being a bad mark on your permanent record.


Don't recall which poster on this forum suggested it (maybe Billys Bones?), but make the fraudulent user cancel it. Why should _*we*_ take a hit for that kind of behavior??


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

CatchyMusicLover said:


> Odd you say that, I've met a girl named Mike...though I'm not sure she spelled it that way.


Reminds me of the time my high school girlfriend and I had broken up... I went downtown, hit a bar and met this really cute chick with a short skirt and great legs. We went to the local beach and started to make out...

Ah, you guessed it! It was a Boy named Sue.... dressed like Sue and ... let's just say Sue had a merry laugh at my discomfort. It was 1971 and all I knew about transvestites was Lou Reeds "Walk on the Wild Side" . I drove Sue back to the bar in half the time that it had taken the other way around!


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## Billys Bones (Oct 2, 2016)

observer said:


> http://ubermovement.com/cpuc-video/
> 
> Unaccompanied minors:
> 
> In California, due to CPUC requirements, you cannot transport an unaccompanied minor on trips arranged through the Uber app. Keep in mind that in California, a rider must be over 18 to sign up for an Uber account, but if you believe a rider might be underage, you can ask them to confirm their age and let them know that you will have to cancel the trip if they are indeed under 18. In addition, you can report requests to transport unaccompanied minors by submitting in-app feedback.


 I'm aware of the video and uber policy which we all need to try to follow, but what's the actual law? I read the CPUC findings and order but it does not seem to prohibit occasional transport. See page 57 paragraph 6. Anyone know of an update? http://d1qjti0g4mwkm0.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Final4-21Decision.pdf


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> The pic shows there is nothing where most people have brains, so, perhaps it speaks the truth?
> Don't assume something doesn't exist just because you are too lazy to look for it.
> 
> Coachman, apples and oranges.
> ...


Mr. 2inch there just goes down the line... Poking his stick at everyone. Blah blah blah.
Whether you are ex cabby, limo, sedan, or rickshaw. Ya mule !!!.. The bitterness is obvious. Drink some coffee read the paper and relax... You're going to give yourself a heart attack. It's going to be OK.


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## RedoBeach (Feb 27, 2016)

Chris1962 said:


> Civil court is much different than criminal court. If they are not pursuing criminal charges you don't get to plead the 5th. You are correct they will likely go after Uber as well as the driver. If a jury finds you 30% at fault and Uber 70% at fault on a 1 million dollar settlement, what do you think the chances are Uber will pay your 300k?
> 
> On the chance you end up with zero responsibility, how much in lawyer fees did it cost you to do that? I don't know about you, but I don't make enough driving to pay a lawyer 200 bucks an hour.
> 
> All this and the stress when all you had to do was ask for ID and say no. But hey, if a $5 fare is worth rolling those dice to you, go for it.


If you end up with zero responsibility, the judge can grant your legal fees to be paid by the Plaintiff.


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## SoiCowboy (Sep 17, 2016)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> I'm father to a son and daughter.
> I share your concern.
> I'd go directly to the police and open a case.
> I'd prosecute this as statutory rape.
> ...


In addition to the above, I would contact my local TV stations that help with consumer issues. Bad publicity about this problem might move TNCs to doing a better job in this area. Uber tells me to cancel the ride if I determine the pax is a minor. Doesn't canceling go against me?

I feel the public needs a high-profile incident to drive this point home because drivers and pax don't read the terms of service.

In my local area I do not drive before 8:30 a.m. because they're all minors going to school. So there are plenty of drivers transporting minors and guess what? The minors are not insured by the TNC.

These signs help.


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## noober (Nov 19, 2014)

As a driver, I contacted Uber concerning a minor using an adult's account. I did this through the app; rider feedback; report a serious incident involving a rider. Here is their response which I am sharing to leave no doubt as to Uber's position on this topic:

"Thanks for reaching out and happy to assist.

We do appreciate you informing us about this concern. We make it very clear that people younger than 18 can't use the Uber app themselves, also minors should always be chaperoned when taking an Uber ride. 

As put forth by our Terms of Use. If it is ever determined that a rider is not at least 18 years of age, whether overtly stated by an approving parent, the minor, or through ID verification you can decline the request and report so that we can take appropriate action. 

In response to this, I've taken note of your feedback about this trip and we'll be sure to use this as a support and reach out to the rider to make appropriate action. 

Hope that I was able to help you here. Thank you so much for your patience and understanding. 

We appreciate you took time to contact us. If you have any other concern, feel free to reach us on our Help Page."


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

circle1 said:


> Don't recall which poster on this forum suggested it (maybe Billys Bones?), but make the fraudulent user cancel it. Why should _*we*_ take a hit for that kind of behavior??


You can't MAKE then cancel it. Some will just have someone else in their group order and split the ride. Plus if it's busy or surging and they take 10 minutes to cancel do you want to wait?

Plus, depending g on how Uber feels that day rider cancels may also count against you. I know I've seen them affect my cancellation rate.


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## Chris1962 (Nov 7, 2016)

noober said:


> As a driver, I contacted Uber concerning a minor using an adult's account. I did this through the app; rider feedback; report a serious incident involving a rider. Here is their response which I am sharing to leave no doubt as to Uber's position on this topic:
> 
> "Thanks for reaching out and happy to assist.
> 
> ...


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## Chris1962 (Nov 7, 2016)

_We do appreciate you informing us about this concern. We make it very clear that people younger than 18 can't use the Uber app themselves, also minors should always be chaperoned when taking an Uber ride._

Now, the way I read this is the minor can't use the app to order a ride but a parent can order the ride for the minor. Minors should be chaperonedone by adults but it's not mandatory?


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Print that answer on some paper and carry it to the bathroom with you. Their response will be put to better use.

The proper question:

Uber, how many times have you been notified that a passenger is fraudulent or under age 18 yet continued to send drivers to that account?

Speed racier... How's the minivan going today. I had 5 rides in under 5 hours, $110 netted, very few dead miles, and my late morning drop off was a few miles from the track. Headed over to the Turf by the Surf for the afternoon, won a few $$, then when I left got a DF ride to nearby my home. And didn't have to pick up someone else's kids.

Life with adults is much better!


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## SoiCowboy (Sep 17, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Plus, depending g on how Uber feels that day rider cancels may also count against you. I know I've seen them affect my cancellation rate.


From Uber on this subject of cancellations:

Our Terms of Service 
require that riders be 18 to have an Uber account and riders under 18 cannot request or receive a ride unless they are accompanied. If you think this policy is being violated, you can decline a ride request.

If you completed a trip with a rider that you believe to be under an appropriate age and you'd like us to investigate further, feel free to let us know so we can investigate.

*No worries single cancellation will not affect your overall performance.*

If you have any other concerns, please remember that I'd love to help you in any way I can so don't think twice on writing back to me. Feel free to visit our help page

for additional information.


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## SoiCowboy (Sep 17, 2016)

Chris1962 said:


> _We do appreciate you informing us about this concern. We make it very clear that people younger than 18 can't use the Uber app themselves, also minors should always be chaperoned when taking an Uber ride._
> 
> Now, the way I read this is the minor can't use the app to order a ride but a parent can order the ride for the minor. Minors should be chaperonedone by adults but it's not mandatory?


No minors unless accompanied by an adult.

In California, due to CPUC requirements, you cannot transport an unaccompanied minor on trips arranged through the Uber app. Keep in mind that in California, a rider must be over 18 to sign up for an Uber account, but if you believe a rider might be underage, you can ask them to confirm their age and let them know that you will have to cancel the trip if they are indeed under 18. In addition, you can report requests to transport unaccompanied minors by submitting in-app feedback.


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## Chris1962 (Nov 7, 2016)

Not according to that reply by Uber. 'should' is not a mandate. I don't transport minors but that reply doesn't say you can't .


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## SoiCowboy (Sep 17, 2016)

Chris1962 said:


> Not according to that reply by Uber. 'should' is not a mandate. I don't transport minors but that reply doesn't say you can't .


From Uber:

*In California, due to CPUC requirements, you cannot transport an unaccompanied minor on trips arranged through the Uber app.*


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## Chris1962 (Nov 7, 2016)

I'm not in California


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## SoiCowboy (Sep 17, 2016)

Chris1962 said:


> I'm not in California


Have your read the Uber TOS?

*The Service is not available for use by persons under the age of 18. You may not authorize third parties to use your Account, and you may not allow persons under the age of 18 to receive transportation or logistics services from Third Party Providers unless they are accompanied by you.*


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## Chris1962 (Nov 7, 2016)

SoiCowboy said:


> Have your read the Uber TOS?
> 
> *The Service is not available for use by persons under the age of 18. You may not authorize third parties to use your Account, and you may not allow persons under the age of 18 to receive transportation or logistics services from Third Party Providers unless they are accompanied by you.*


Yes I have and it is why I don't transport minors. What I pointed out is the reply by Uber posted here doesnt say that.


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Chris1962 said:


> Yes I have and it is why I don't transport minors. What I pointed out is the reply by Uber posted here doesnt say that.


Like I said, the Uber reply is no better than twice used toilet paper.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Chris1962 said:


> Not according to that reply by Uber. 'should' is not a mandate. I don't transport minors but that reply doesn't say you can't .


. . . I think he was referring to California TNC drivers.


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## Speedyracer (Aug 17, 2016)

2Peaks said:


> Print that answer on some paper and carry it to the bathroom with you. Their response will be put to better use.
> 
> The proper question:
> 
> ...


Not that good.. Net of about $168 in 10 hours. I spent most of my time on the phone with the ex wife who "needed my help" with something. Then listening to voicemails of a young 30ish woman I met a few weeks ago asking " why I don't come see her more often " ... You're crazy that's why.... You either get it or don't. The most important call. From my mom. Asking if I wanted her to cook me dinner Sunday. Life is good..... Real good


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## dubz (Aug 2, 2015)

Well, I guess I'm simply willing to take risks some others aren't. 

I will reiterate, criminal or civil, when you can clearly and authentically establish lack of malice and a high level of credibility even an unethical lawyer will not pursue the case. For the record, I have a lot of other credibility which has, would, and does protect me from issues involving the legal system. Not because I am perfect, but more because I was never caught doing stuff I had no business doing in the past. 
Understandably this is not everyone's situation so we all must approach this matter delicately and from each his own perspective. This is not a judgement or condemnation upon any one else. Merely a pragmatic observation of what our worlds prejudices are.
So I will continue forward in my opinion of no risk no reward.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Chris1962 said:


> Not according to that reply by Uber. 'should' is not a mandate. I don't transport minors but that reply doesn't say you can't .


Uber is not the concern. It's the law of the state you live in. Uber may or may not bail you out based on poorly written policy which goes against the law of the land.


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## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

Back when I was 16, we didn't have any fancy Uber when we snuck out of the house in the middle of the night. We had to steal the keys to our parents car and push it down the driveway and down the street before we started the engine.

Kids today have it easy.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I never ask for ID. So I can truthfully say that I've never knowingly transported an unaccompanied minor. And frankly, I don't see what all the fuss is about. If a passenger is violating the Uber TOS when they get in the car, that's on them.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> I never ask for ID. So I can truthfully say that I've never knowingly transported an unaccompanied minor. And frankly, I don't see what all the fuss is about. If a passenger is violating the Uber TOS when they get in the car, that's on them.


Ok, but what will your insurance provider have to say after an accident?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

circle1 said:


> Ok, but what will your insurance provider have to say after an accident?


Show me a case where Uber has declined insurance coverage because the passenger was a minor. Then I'll reconsider.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Show me a case where Uber has declined insurance coverage because the passenger was a minor. Then I'll reconsider.


No, no, Coachman, I'm talking about YOUR portion of the responsibility. Surely you don't believe Uber's going to pay for everything . . . do you? Is Uber going to pay your hospital bills? How about replacing your car? How about your legal defense?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

circle1 said:


> No, no, Coachman, I'm talking about YOUR portion of the responsibility. Surely you don't believe Uber's going to pay for everything . . . do you? Is Uber going to pay your hospital bills? How about replacing your car? How about your legal defense?


Show me a case where a driver has gotten into an accident with a minor passenger and has been left hanging to pay their hospital bills, replace their car, and pay their legal defense. With all these minors riding around this should be a common occurrence.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Show me a case where a driver has gotten into an accident with a minor passenger and has been left hanging to pay their hospital bills, replace their car, and pay their legal defense. With all these minors riding around this should be a common occurrence.


That's all fell and wine, but just because you personally have no knowledge about that scenario happening, you're content with the risk you're undertaking (assuming you are)??


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

circle1 said:


> That's all fell and wine, but just because you personally have no knowledge about that scenario happening, you're content with the risk you're undertaking (assuming you are)??


If an 18 y/o passenger reports you for sexual assault, who's going to pay your legal fees?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> If an 18 y/o passenger reports you for sexual assault, who's going to pay your legal fees?


My Business Owner's policy + E&O insurance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_owner's_policy

I understand that most side-gig folks aren't going to pay for this level of coverage. That's why I bother to question posters who say, "ahhhh, what's the worry?" I ask them, are you aware of the risks you're taking?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

Private insurance may cover a small business' liability in the event of a sexual misconduct claim against an employee. It does not cover the legal fees of the accused.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Private insurance may cover a small business' liability in the event of a sexual misconduct claim against an employee. It does not cover the legal fees of the accused.


I am THE employee. That's what the policy is for . . . but you haven't given an answer to the risk . . . you comfortable with it?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

circle1 said:


> I am THE employee. That's what the policy is for . . . but you haven't given an answer to the risk . . . you comfortable with it?


NO. Your business insurance MAY pay out a claim made by the victim against you and the company. E&O insurance does not and will not pay your lawyer's fees in a criminal case. That's funny!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> NO. Your insurance MAY pay out a claim made by the victim against you and the company. E&O insurance does not and will not pay your lawyer's fees in a criminal case. That's funny!


Point goes to Coachman! I'll buy "legal expenses insurance." . . . now, please answer my main question . . .


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

I believe the question is am I comfortable with the risks I'm taking. And the best answer to that is, generally, yes. The rides that I find most risky, by far, are drunks. Drunks are unpredictable. I don't like unpredictable. So I'm often very uncomfortable with the drunks. The young people I pick up at the high school are well behaved and quite predictable. I've never had an uncomfortable ride with a teenager, except for two girls I picked up who turned out to be drunk. Were they 18? Maybe. As I said, I don't ask their age. And as far as the insurance goes, I've never found anyone on this board who can show me a case where Uber or their personal carrier denied insurance on the basis of the rider being a minor.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> And as far as the insurance goes, I've never found anyone on this board who can show me a case where Uber or their personal carrier denied insurance on the basis of the rider being a minor.


Very well. Your outlook is limited in scope (apparently).

_May the odds be ever in your favor!_


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Show me a case where Uber has declined insurance coverage because the passenger was a minor. Then I'll reconsider.


20 years ago Craig's List probably said, "show me a case where a woman was assaulted after responding to an ad"


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## Cocobird (Dec 9, 2015)

Mom82of2 said:


> Thanks captain obvious. I appreciate the lack of concern for the bigger question I asked for assistance with. According to the Uber legal terms, an account holder cannot set up transport for an unaccompanied minor. I am looking for someone that can help me on how to contact Uber about the policy violation in the hopes that maybe I can make it a little more difficult for the man to do this again. Not that my action will change his behavior but that maybe I can be an obstacle that will force him to at least not use Uber.





Mom82of2 said:


> Thanks captain obvious. I appreciate the lack of concern for the bigger question I asked for assistance with. According to the Uber legal terms, an account holder cannot set up transport for an unaccompanied minor. I am looking for someone that can help me on how to contact Uber about the policy violation in the hopes that maybe I can make it a little more difficult for the man to do this again. Not that my action will change his behavior but that maybe I can be an obstacle that will force him to at least not use Uber.





TwoFiddyMile said:


> I'm father to a son and daughter.
> I share your concern.
> I'd go directly to the police and open a case.
> I'd prosecute this as statutory rape.
> ...


You could have been so much more than just another poster on a forum


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

circle1 said:


> Very well. Your outlook is limited in scope (apparently).
> 
> _May the odds be ever in your favor!_


Well you asked me to evaluate risks. And I think, after driving and reading this board for a year+ I have a pretty good grasp of the risks. The consensus on the board seems to be that transporting a minor, knowingly or not, represents an unacceptable risk. Yet there's never been any evidence provided to justify that perception. None at all. Do you have any?


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

2Peaks said:


> 20 years ago Craig's List probably said, "show me a case where a woman was assaulted after responding to an ad"


Yes. But if you ask me to show you cases where Craigslist led to a an assault, I can do that. Easily. You don't think it took 20 years for that to happen, do you?

*Craigslist Assault and Robbery*


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## Max Weber (Mar 4, 2015)

I would be inclined to think there is no father in this household. Your daughter is probably seeking that out. I don't know if there is a solution to your problem in this case, but it's certainly not Uber's responsibility.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Well you asked me to evaluate risks. And I think, after driving and reading this board for a year+ I have a pretty good grasp of the risks. The consensus on the board seems to be that transporting a minor, knowingly or not, represents an unacceptable risk. Yet there's never been any evidence provided to justify that perception. None at all. Do you have any?


Coachman, I appreciate your candid response, but please remember; it's a mathematical axiom that it is impossible to prove a negative. I believe the most used illustration is, people once said that it was _*impossible*_ for a black swan to exist (because no one in recorded history had ever reporting seeing one) . . . you know how that story ends, right??


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

circle1 said:


> Coachman, I appreciate your candid response, but please remember; it's a mathematical axiom that it is impossible to prove a negative. I believe the most used illustration is, people once said that it was _*impossible*_ for a black swan to exist (because no one in recorded history had ever reporting seeing one) . . . you know how that story ends, right??


Except I'm not asking you to prove a negative. This is going to end up being another point for me. Do you really want to go through it?


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## 2Peaks (Sep 19, 2016)

The insurance argument is too complicated for this board. 

Suffice to say this: you owe a greater degree of care to a child than you owe to an adult. An adult can assume risk while a child might not (legal jurisdictions). A child usually will not be considered for contributory negligence. 
As an adult, you may have strict liability when transporting a child.

The "I didn't know she was not an adult" defense won't wash. Judge: "Uber driver, what did you think when she got into you car wearing a school uniform and carrying a high school biology book chatting with her friend about prom?"

Lastly, consider this: even if your insurance covers you, your insurer can settle a case without your consent. You don't get to fight for your innocence.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Except I'm not asking you to prove a negative. This is going to end up being another point for me. Do you really want to go through it?


No, I'm saying that_* you*_ citing a lack of an occurrence as proof . . . can never _*be* proof_ of it's non-existence.

Coachman: "Yet there's never been any evidence provided to justify that perception. None at all. Do you have any?"

Me: Instead of TNC driver getting into legal hot water over transporting an unaccompanied minor, replace it with "black swan."

Q.E.D.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

circle1 said:


> No, I'm saying that_* you*_ citing a lack of an occurrence as proof . . . can never _*be* proof_ of it's non-existence.
> 
> Coachman: "Yet there's never been any evidence provided to justify that perception. None at all. Do you have any?"
> 
> ...


Okay here we go.

I'm not asking for proof of non-existence. I'm asking for proof of existence.

Asking you to prove that a unicorn doesn't exist is folly. Asking you to prove that a unicorn does exist is perfectly reasonable. _Especially after you've told me that I ought to be wary of getting trampled by unicorns._

Back to our example. If I asked you to demonstrate that cases involving minors don't exist that would be a problem. But that's not what I asked. I asked you to show that cases involving minors do exist. That's proving a positive. There's no logical dilemma there.

Got it?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> Okay here we go.
> 
> I'm not asking for proof of non-existence. I'm asking for proof of existence.
> 
> ...


Ok, I see where we're getting hung-up on semantics . . . existence/non-existence, but the crux of the argument we're having is; would you bet all your worldly possessions on the existence or non-existence of a TNC driver getting into (some kind of) legal hot water over transporting an unaccompanied minor? (It appears you're denying the risk is real.)

You are, in effect, saying that because this Black Swan is not evident (you don't see it anywhere, "I'm asking for proof of existence"), therefore you do not believe _there is a risk_ (or that the risk is low enough to be acceptable). It _*may*_ not have happened yet (we don't know that short of consulting a legal reference librarian), but the risk of it happening is great (imo).

You keep shifting the spotlight away from the potential risk.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

circle1 said:


> Ok, I see where we're getting hung-up on semantics . . . existence/non-existence, but the crux of the argument we're having is; would you bet all your worldly possessions on the existence or non-existence of a TNC driver getting into (some kind of) legal hot water over transporting an unaccompanied minor? (It appears you're denying the risk is real.)
> 
> You are, in effect, saying that because this Black Swan is not evident (you don't see it anywhere, "I'm asking for proof of existence"), therefore you do not believe _there is a risk_ (or that the risk is low enough to be acceptable). It _*may*_ not have happened yet (we don't know that short of consulting a legal reference librarian), but the risk of it happening is great (imo).
> 
> You keep shifting the spotlight away from the potential risk.


I've never suggested there's no risk. I've only questioned the severity of the risk. When you evaluate risk you need to look at two things... how likely is the event to happen and what are the consequences of that event? That's why people are rightly afraid of lightning. Not because they're likely to get hit. But because of the serious nature of getting struck.

One of the things that happens in these debates about minors is that the consequences are really overblown. The first consequence we hear about is that in the case of an accident Uber won't cover the insurance. Now the funny thing about that is that it's only speculation. Nobody here can point to a case where a minor involved in an accident has been denied coverage by Uber. I'm not saying it doesn't happen or couldn't happen. I'm just saying there no evidence it has happened. And if Uber does indeed cover the minor, then the risk of getting in an accident with a minor is no greater than the risk of getting into an accident with an adult. And on the flip side of that, there's always the chance Uber will deny you coverage on any ride for some unexpected reason. Is that risk sufficient to keep you from driving?

Another consequence that we're warned about is that a minor's parents will sue the driver. Well, if you're in an accident (or even if you're not) any passenger can sue you. There's no evidence that a minor is any greater risk for a lawsuit than any other passenger.

Finally there's the claim about the unacceptable risk of a false sexual assault accusation. "You don't want to have a 15 y/o claiming you came on to her!" Now, again, why would a minor be any more likely than any other passenger to falsely accuse a driver of sexual assault? And if you drive with a dash cam, this worry goes right out the window, anyway.

I think when you look at these supposed risks, you'll see that there really not much there to worry about. And I think if you sit down and look at the risks and consequences of driving drunks, you'll find that they're much more dangerous than minors. But most people here drive drunks around all the time without thinking much about it.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> I've never suggested there's no risk. I've only questioned the severity of the risk. When you evaluate risk you need to look at two things... how likely is the event to happen and what are the consequences of that event? That's why people are rightly afraid of lightning. Not because they're likely to get hit. But because of the serious nature of getting struck.
> 
> One of the things that happens in these debates about minors is that the consequences are really overblown. The first consequence we hear about is that in the case of an accident Uber won't cover the insurance. Now the funny thing about that is that it's only speculation. Nobody here can point to a case where a minor involved in an accident has been denied coverage by Uber. I'm not saying it doesn't happen or couldn't happen. I'm just saying there no evidence it has happened. And if Uber does indeed cover the minor, then the risk of getting in an accident with a minor is no greater than the risk of getting into an accident with an adult. And on the flip side of that, there's always the chance Uber will deny you coverage on any ride for some unexpected reason. Is that risk sufficient to keep you from driving?
> 
> ...


Ok, we disagree on risk assessment on the _specific subject of_ transporting minors without an accompanying guardian. You are correct about the other risks.

But if/when a case goes/did go to court (on above mentioned scenario), and the driver looses (for negligence), I'm claiming that they did not assess the risks properly . . . saying, "I see nothing" is not equal to doing risk assessment. It is laziness.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

circle1 said:


> Ok, we disagree on risk assessment on the _specific subject of_ transporting minors without an accompanying guardian. You are correct about the other risks.
> 
> But if/when a case goes/did go to court (on above mentioned scenario), and the driver looses (for negligence), I'm claiming that they did not assess the risks properly . . . saying, "I see nothing" is not equal to doing risk assessment. It is laziness.


I'm not sure which part of what I typed above you disagree with. But I think you would agree that lots of bad things happen to Uber drivers. And the worse a thing is, the more likely we are to hear about it in these forums, yes?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Coachman said:


> I'm not sure which part of what I typed above you disagree with. But I think you would agree that lots of bad things happen to Uber drivers. And the worse a thing is, the more likely we are to hear about it in these forums, yes?


I stated unequivocally what I disagreed with.

My gut feeling is a small percentage of contractors are reading these forums. . . . and, yes, some posters on UP are warning us of the _worse things_ concerning underestimating risks.


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## dubz (Aug 2, 2015)

Coachman for president!
This is silly, what's the point? The risks do not outweigh the reward because the risks are simply speculation. 
I too used to sneak out the house and go do all sorts of stuff I had no business. That was on me and my parents. No one else. Bottom line, parent your children to the best of your ability and hopefully it takes. 
UNER drivers are not here to solve family issues, we are here to drive.


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## Sainteyad (Dec 9, 2016)

Mom82of2 said:


> At about 1:30 this morning my daughter left the house through her window and got in to an Uber that was paid for by an older male Uber account holder. She did not exit the home from the garage or front door. She was obviously not the male account holder and does not look to be an adult. I have tried the help desk but of course, Uber wants no part of this conversation. I am fearful older men (and nowadways women) can so easily use this service and seemingly get away with "kidnapping". What can I do?


your child is underage teen, been taken by elder adults , this is serious criminal case , I cant believe you come to Uber forum to ask , just go directly to the police and report it , YES Its kidnapping , rape and child abuse ! I cant believe this what, do you expect Uber to do ?


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## Howie428Uber (Mar 4, 2016)

In these discussions we hear a lot about the risks of taking an action, but often fail to consider the risks of not doing something.

In the original example of a person climbing out of a window to get into your car, how are you to know if they are going to something dangerous or getting away from it?

Some other examples from my experience... I find that the pax is a teenager to be picked up from a school late in the evening and there’s no sign of anyone else still at the school. Would I have a harder time justifying taking the teenager home or leaving them there?

I get to a rural house and the pax are two teens who are leaving their friend’s house. The uber has been called by the intoxicated parent of the friend. If I don’t take them, how likely is it that the drunk parent will take them herself?

I’m asked to picked up some teens, younger children and their dog from side of the highway, because the tow truck that has not arrived yet can’t take all of them. So do I leave a group of children at the side of a freeway or take them to the repair center?

All of these are situations where you have to exercise judgment and where having blunt policy could come back to bite you either way.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Sainteyad said:


> your child is underage teen, been taken by elder adults , this is serious criminal case , I cant believe you come to Uber forum to ask , just go directly to the police and report it , YES Its kidnapping , rape and child abuse ! I cant believe this what, do you expect Uber to do ?


You're reading a lot into this. No mention was made of rape, nor was there evidence of any of the crimes you mentioned presented in the original post. The daughter is 16, which is the legal age of consent in Georgia, as mentioned early in the thread. The mother indicated her daughter went out the window on her own.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Howie428Uber said:


> In the original example of a person climbing out of a window to get into your car, how are you to know if they are going to something dangerous or getting away from it?
> 
> Some other examples from my experience... I find that the pax is a teenager to be picked up from a school late in the evening and there's no sign of anyone else still at the school. Would I have a harder time justifying taking the teenager home or leaving them there?
> 
> ...


That's all fell & wine but aren't you overlooking the fact that each of the persons described have a phone and can make alternative arrangements? And the highway scenario . . . the police need to be notified of the hazard (if a genuine one exists).

If someone wants to play Superman, that's great. I admire their tolerance for risk-taking, and I may also take the risk depending on the situation (heck, the "Duty of Care" doctrine may even _mandate_ that I help).

But short of a real emergency, it's fool-hardy to play the hero.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Howie428Uber said:


> In these discussions we hear a lot about the risks of taking an action, but often fail to consider the risks of not doing something.
> 
> In the original example of a person climbing out of a window to get into your car, how are you to know if they are going to something dangerous or getting away from it?
> 
> ...


There's simply no discussion to be had here. If you come across a minor who you feel is in a bad situation in any way, the only thing to do is call the police and alert them. The end.


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## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

Coachman said:


> I've never suggested there's no risk. I've only questioned the severity of the risk. When you evaluate risk you need to look at two things... how likely is the event to happen and what are the consequences of that event? That's why people are rightly afraid of lightning. Not because they're likely to get hit. But because of the serious nature of getting struck.
> 
> One of the things that happens in these debates about minors is that the consequences are really overblown. The first consequence we hear about is that in the case of an accident Uber won't cover the insurance. Now the funny thing about that is that it's only speculation. Nobody here can point to a case where a minor involved in an accident has been denied coverage by Uber. I'm not saying it doesn't happen or couldn't happen. I'm just saying there no evidence it has happened. And if Uber does indeed cover the minor, then the risk of getting in an accident with a minor is no greater than the risk of getting into an accident with an adult. And on the flip side of that, there's always the chance Uber will deny you coverage on any ride for some unexpected reason. Is that risk sufficient to keep you from driving?
> 
> ...


It isn't speculation at all. No insurance company is in the business of covering people who are not policy holders, or (in some states) do illegal things. Minors can't be account holders and are not involved in any way with the policy. Uber has an explicit policy on picking up unaccompanied minors.

Even if everything you're saying is true, are you willing to bet it all on something you openly claim you don't know the answer to?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Demon said:


> It isn't speculation at all. No insurance company is in the business of covering people who are not policy holders, or (in some states) do illegal things. Minors can't be account holders and are not involved in any way with the policy. Uber has an explicit policy on picking up unaccompanied minors.
> 
> Even if everything you're saying is true, are you willing to bet it all on something you openly claim you don't know the answer to?


I've been going round-and-round with Coachman on this point . . . seems he is comfortable with the risk . . . and he's been told it is a risk that's_* not worth it*_!


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