# Your strategy to make profits. Successful Uber drivers post here.



## Ubernic (Apr 24, 2016)

Instead of every thread stating how horrible Uber is, we all lose money, blah blah blah. Let's have a thread helping people in good markets capitalize and make a profit.

1. Avoid dead miles as much as possible. The way I do this is after a ride, if I am not already in a good spot, I will open up the rider app, try to find the nearest area with no other drivers, go there, and pick up a fare back into town (works most of the time). Since I am on Select, I will switch to my X account and do an X ride back to town, it covers gas and then some so I don't need to drive back on my own dime. If X is surging and I was an X driver, it may be worth it to drive back without a rider, but if it isn't surging, the method I posted works well.

2. Anticipate surges, if you are on X, try to work your schedule around the surges. The best way I have seen to do this, is drive to the area you know will be surging, keep your app off. When surge happens, turn on your app and profit. If you are on X only, you will want to get as much surge as possible, so wait to turn on your app.

What is your strategy to make a profit driving for Uber?


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## Darrell (Dec 27, 2015)

Uber sucks


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## Ubernic (Apr 24, 2016)

I actually figure most posts in here will be that, or "the best way to make money driving for Uber is to not drive for Uber."


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## Darrell (Dec 27, 2015)

Yea me too so I figure I might as well start it off. You're welcome.


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## secretadmirer (Jul 19, 2015)

Well I guess one strategy would be to relocate to Harrisburg, PA, where uberX is 1.75/mile. Or living in a city where you can upgrade to uberSUV/select/black.... lolololol


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

Ubernic said:


> Instead of every thread stating how horrible Uber is, we all lose money, blah blah blah. Let's have a thread helping people in good markets capitalize and make a profit.
> 
> 1. Avoid dead miles as much as possible. The way I do this is after a ride, if I am not already in a good spot, I will open up the rider app, try to find the nearest area with no other drivers, go there, and pick up a fare back into town (works most of the time). Since I am on Select, I will switch to my X account and do an X ride back to town, it covers gas and then some so I don't need to drive back on my own dime. If X is surging and I was an X driver, it may be worth it to drive back without a rider, but if it isn't surging, the method I posted works well.
> 
> ...


That's an easy question. Not driving for them. Even taking a minimum wage job will pay a lot more then uber.


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## NuberUber (Dec 28, 2015)

It is important to cancel on pax in a timely manner and take the fee instead of wasting endless amounts of time waiting. In my market the fee is more than a minimum wage ride so I promptly cancel at the five minute mark.

As a sidenote, if I am fast enough I can see the destination they put in and can decide, if I receive the request again, whether I would like to take it or not. They usually see you cancelled while you are still close by so you can choose to decline or accept knowing that it could effect your rating since you cancelled on them (even though you followed policy). Short ride to turn around and get the pax, who is now usually toes on curb.

There is no reason for pax to be wasting our time. They are the ones who request the ride, they know we are coming and they know when we arrive. There is no way it should take longer than five minutes to get to the car. Cancel and get your money. Your time should be treated as a valuable commodity.


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

The latest way to make money is be sure you get paid for your trips, guarantees, all of that by taking screen shots. That's the only proof you have. Driver's aren't getting paid and can't prove it.


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## djangoswango (Mar 10, 2015)

Only drive part time - only drive on Lyft - and only drive the guarantee hours at $20/hour or more.

at least that's what I do.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

I'm still developing, but am pleased with what I see so far.

Picking a good waiting spot is something I've worked on. There are a few places around town that I use. They feature: quiet, safe area. Easy access to major roads and features where I am likely to get a ping. 5-bar 4G cell reception.

My favorite lurking spot is a little parking lot which is 100 yards from an interstate onramp, 2 minutes from a major highway perpendicular to the interstate, 3 minutes from a big shopping mall, 4 minutes to a college dorm, 5 minutes from a busy college bar. I am likely to be the closest driver to any or all of those things and I get calls from all of them too. If my last fare leaves me anywhere near it I go back there, and I have a few others I go to when a fare takes me there. 

When I have some spare time I might go to Google Satellite and make a list of such places everywhere I could possibly end up, store them in my Waze so no matter where a fare takes me I can quickly get to a logical spot where I can shut off my van and wait for the next fare in a place I am likely to get one.


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## Dashopia (May 12, 2016)

djangoswango said:


> Only drive part time - only drive on Lyft - and only drive the guarantee hours at $20/hour or more.
> 
> at least that's what I do.


To bad Lyft is no longer in CT. Im 1 1\2 hours from RI and 1 hour from MA


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## Dashopia (May 12, 2016)

By the way thank for the tips. Im gonna start my first day at 5pm. So ill be using all of your tips


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## Dashopia (May 12, 2016)

My tips is to go online during rainy weather. Some driver wont want to drive on that condition. People tend to call more. At least from my experience driving taxi.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

My strat

Stay home, wait for ping. Pick up the pax (within my howetown) go to wherever they are going. Then wait 15 mins get ping in that area, rinse repeat.

I dont ponpoint when to drive, I just do when I am not doing anything else, like mowing my lawn or whatever. 

I profit in the 40% to 60% range.


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## Dashopia (May 12, 2016)

Simon said:


> My strat
> 
> Stay home, wait for ping. Pick up the pax (within my howetown) go to wherever they are going. Then wait 15 mins get ping in that area, rinse repeat.
> 
> ...


I used that strayegy last night


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## LondonONTdriver (Oct 29, 2015)

Hit "arrived" when you are three mins away from Pax. Sit two mins idle waiting for them to get to car. If they are not there you can collect cancel fee. Every minute counts!


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## ubersan (Apr 29, 2016)

Ubernic said:


> Instead of every thread stating how horrible Uber is, we all lose money, blah blah blah. Let's have a thread helping people in good markets capitalize and make a profit.
> 
> 1. Avoid dead miles as much as possible. The way I do this is after a ride, if I am not already in a good spot, I will open up the rider app, try to find the nearest area with no other drivers, go there, and pick up a fare back into town (works most of the time). Since I am on Select, I will switch to my X account and do an X ride back to town, it covers gas and then some so I don't need to drive back on my own dime. If X is surging and I was an X driver, it may be worth it to drive back without a rider, but if it isn't surging, the method I posted works well.
> 
> ...


I'm fine with dead miles. Sometimes the profit is in taking dead mile loss on your taxes. I would rather have deductible dead miles rather than be caught in a ping pong match driving 1/2 mile pool rides.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)




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## python134r (Jul 24, 2015)

Yup, I kinda have a similar one too now,  I am going back to work full time, been a great year, I got lazy, but the parties been over a while now.


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## leroy jenkins (May 27, 2015)

The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?


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## Mountainsoloist (Nov 16, 2015)

The last strategy that worked decently was airport runs. It took great patience, but it saved gas and had decent odds of a profitable ride.


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## SeeTeeDee (May 10, 2016)

Manage your mind and emotions. Driving can be a stressful gig no matter how much you may enjoy it.

Take "breaks" - not a lot, but some. These aren't the times when you're idling around waiting for a ping; it's when you completely sign off and aren't on edge for that ping - we're talking five to ten minutes here. I like to take mine during the times that I'm fishing for surge. I consider anytime out of the car a good break, which brings me to my next tip...

Get out of the car. Some of my most fruitful spots to fish for fares are next to places that allow me to get out of the car and hang out while I wait.. a park, office complex/hotels with outdoor seating, etc. Its nice to get out of "the office."

For those _depending_ on driving for income: Stick to your routine and commitments. If you say you're going to get up in the morning and drive, then do so. Likewise for establishing a routine or pattern. There's nothing worse than feeling sh!++y about missing a commitment you made to yourself about making that money. This leads me to..

Managing your pay period. Don't paint yourself into a corner at the end of the pay period to hustle up the last bit of Uber Bucks that you need to handle your business. Be smart and bust @$$ from the beginning of the period. There's nothing better than going into the weekend with big numbers in your earnings bracket. Head start.

While you may be doubting the correlation between my tips and maximizing earnings, I assure you it's there. All of these things have a direct impact on your mood which bleeds into your driving, banter and decision making - *profits* *ratings*. Managing my mental state and mood is to what I have personally attributed much of my great success.​


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

leroy jenkins said:


> The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?


Or how about global thermal uberiare warfare.


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## Desilars (May 23, 2016)

They allow us to go to the airport in my city. I have a list of all of the incoming flights. I head to the airport and always get a ping immediately.

For events in our city, I hang out by the hotels- these riders need to get to the event- concert, sporting event etc. Likewise after the big event, I hang out across the street from the big event.

The day after a big event, I go back to the hotels- they will need a ride to the airport. (this time I look at flight departures).

I try not to drive all over, and waste gas between pings. I sit someone in the middle of the city and read. I turn off my car to also save gas.

On Sundays (slow day) I always get people headed home from work that need a ride. (9-10:00 pm)

I always try to recommend places to eat or go to see (tourist sites) with riders from out of town. They are very appreciative of this advice and rate me higher and often tip me.


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## Desilars (May 23, 2016)

one more thing, Uber and the GPS really drain my phone battery. I always keep four or five external chargers in my purse that are charged at all times. Even sometimes with my phone plugged in, my battery goes down and down. You are screwed if you lose your battery.


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## Bill Collector (Dec 17, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> That's an easy question. Not driving for them. Even taking a minimum wage job will pay a lot more then uber.


Better yet, get rid of your car and take Uber to your minimum wage job. Invest that money so it can grow. Or simply use it to create rainy day fund.


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## Bill Collector (Dec 17, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> View attachment 40041


You could have just hold their hands and walked to the destination! Love these types of trips.. I used to have such trip requests during winter.. Now people just walk.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> Or how about global thermal uberiare warfare.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Keep a positive attitude with anything you do.


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## naplestom75 (May 3, 2015)

Move from town to town where they just launched. Probably running 
Out of those.


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

I wrote a whole post about this recently. Second post on this page for anyone who wants to read.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/is-anyone-think-60-mile-profitable-without-surge.65459/

Biggest point is keep expenses as low as possible and be savvy with your tax deductions so as little of your profits go to the irs as possible


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Ubernic said:


> What is your strategy to make a profit driving for Uber?


When I was driving YC, I tried to stay out of heavy traffic, pick up a lot of the passengers at their homes, and look for sweet spots- high elevation areas where the dispatcher will hear me loudest if I came in on a trip where there was competition.

But with Uber, you have other factors at play. Flexible prices, a dispatcher who refuses to tell you how far the trip is going before you come in on it, no way to make sure you are lined up for steady riders that you know will be calling at their quit times from work or to go to work.

I think the optimum strategy really has to vary from what city and what area your home is in, and what time you have to commit to ubering.


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

Find a TNC, that'll let you charge reasonable rates for starters like 1.60 and above. Then work a strategy of some kind. .60/mile, not even close.

I guess another strategy would be the ability to convince other drivers that driving under $1/mile is almost paying uber. If more and more drivers quit, then maybe uber would raise the rates. Yes I know it's sh()tty pipedream.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

One of the things I've been doing is listening to the passengers, closely. I know a lot more about them than they know about me, and knowledge is power and profit. 

If you deal with the corporate crowd and you invest, I think you will eventually overhear something you can use. Play dumb, think of yourself as a spy.


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## RightTurnClyde (Dec 9, 2015)

leroy jenkins said:


> The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?





ChortlingCrison said:


> Or how about global thermal uberiare warfare.











Mr. Kalanick after very careful consideration, sir, I've come to the conclusion that your new rideshare system sucks...


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

ubersan said:


> I'm fine with dead miles. Sometimes the profit is in taking dead mile loss on your taxes. I would rather have deductible dead miles rather than be caught in a ping pong match driving 1/2 mile pool rides.


You can't be serious. Please tell me you are not serious. Sarcasm, right?


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## UberLou (May 5, 2015)

LondonONTdriver said:


> Hit "arrived" when you are three mins away from Pax. Sit two mins idle waiting for them to get to car. If they are not there you can collect cancel fee. Every minute counts!


Ridiculous


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

I was a successful uber driver when the rates were 1.60/mile, then they lowered them so I went in limbo.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> One of the things I've been doing is listening to the passengers, closely. I know a lot more about them than they know about me, and knowledge is power and profit.
> 
> If you deal with the corporate crowd and you invest, I think you will eventually overhear something you can use. Play dumb, think of yourself as a spy.


If you want " insider information " frequent a bar near the corporation you are targeting after their work hours.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

hanging in there said:


> You can't be serious. Please tell me you are not serious. Sarcasm, right?


Uber drivers tend to hate math, but yes, he's right in some situations. Dead miles can be profitable. I tally up dead miles all the time and profit much more than without and the tax benefit on top is more money in my pocket after I zero out on Uber income and can deduct against other business income.


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

I have iPhone and found an awesome app that lets me track surges in ten locations. If the app is on, even when I'm not online it notifies me of surges on my list. A have a few near home and few in other locations. So when I'm not driving I watch the surge to learn the patterns. What I love about the app is that it's in real time based on pax app. Also you can modify location for whatever platform your driving. I have all my locations set to select. So if I'm home and not doing anything and it's surging select around me i turn on the app. I learned where to go and when by using this app. As a result most my fares are select surge. Works great for me.


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## Ray H (Aug 14, 2015)

Ubernic said:


> Instead of every thread stating how horrible Uber is, we all lose money, blah blah blah. Let's have a thread helping people in good markets capitalize and make a profit.
> 
> 1. Avoid dead miles as much as possible. The way I do this is after a ride, if I am not already in a good spot, I will open up the rider app, try to find the nearest area with no other drivers, go there, and pick up a fare back into town (works most of the time). Since I am on Select, I will switch to my X account and do an X ride back to town, it covers gas and then some so I don't need to drive back on my own dime. If X is surging and I was an X driver, it may be worth it to drive back without a rider, but if it isn't surging, the method I posted works well.
> 
> ...


Avoid short trips.pick up at airports.open doors for riders offer bottled water mint and gum and at the end of the trip say thank you for riding with me to rider


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

RamzFanz said:


> Uber drivers tend to hate math, but yes, he's right in some situations. Dead miles can be profitable. I tally up dead miles all the time and profit much more than without and the tax benefit on top is more money in my pocket after I zero out on Uber income and can deduct against other business income.


I am sorry, but I really am having a hard time coming up with any scenario in which adding extra dead miles can be "profitable".

Here's the math as I see it.

Let's start with a few simple assumptions in order to maximize the possibility of actually coming out ahead on dead miles.

1) I assume that most Uber drivers are in less than a 28% tax bracket, but let's use 28% in order to try and maximize the tax savings of dead miles. Add the 15.3 self employment tax, that equals 43.3%.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyph...ions-exemption-amounts-and-more/#503bbf0b792e

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyph...dard-deduction-amounts-and-more/#7631e9f76f71

2) Now, assume that you dead-head an extra 10 miles to pick someone up because you think it is profitable to do so, based on deducting all those extra juicy 54 cent miles on your tax return. That's another $5.40 that you just made, right? No.

First of all, regardless of whatever the IRS allowance is, you actually do have running costs per mile in the "real world". Let's assume that you are really on top of your game and have gotten your actual per mile costs down to an average of 20 cents per mile (not including tax), because you have an already well-depreciated, tip-top shape Prius requiring little maintenance etc. etc.. So that 10 mile extra dead-head actually did cost you $2.00. Now let's see if it is possible to get more than that $2.00 back from Uncle Sam.

3) That extra 10 mile dead-head in the above example comes to an "Uncle Sam rebate" of... 10 miles x 54 cents = $5.40 x 43.3% tax savings = $2.34. That means that you just spent another 10-25 minutes in traffic to "earn" a grand total of... $2.34 - $2.00 = 34 cents.

4) Now, let's back up. What I presented above is almost "best case" for your argument that you could come out ahead with extra dead miles. Pretty much every other case in the real world for the majority of Uber drivers, IMO, would result in a net loss, not a 34 cent gain. I would venture to say that most Uber drivers are at most in the 10-15% tax bracket, not the 28% tax bracket, and that most drivers have a higher actual long-term operational cost per mile than 20 cents per mile. So actual bottom line IMO is that in the case of 95% of Uber drivers they would not be gaining 34 cents per mile but in fact would be coming out negative.

Here's what I see as a more typical example: 15% tax bracket, 30 cents per mile operational costs, 10 miles x 54 cents = $5.40 x (15%IRS +15.3%SS = 30.3%) = $1.64 "tax savings" vs actual cost of driving 10 extra miles @ 30 cents/mi = $3.00 cost. That comes to a net loss of $1.36 on top of the wasted time.

Dead-heading is also riskier in terms of business since a longer ETA pax is more likely, in my experience, to cancel, leaving you half way or most of the way there with nothing to show for it, perhaps except of course for that juicy 34 cents and perhaps a cancellation fee.

P.S. Slightly off topic, but here's a few more observations:

If you are in fact in the net 28% tax bracket, think about that for just a minute. That means that for every dollar of 1099 reported "income" that gets filtered into the bottom line as actual AGI, you would be paying 15.3 cents for Self Employment Tax (SS tax) plus another 28 cents in actual federal income tax, not counting possible state tax. So even if, let's say, you have $30k in reported 1099 income against $20k in reported expenses for TNC driving, for an actual Schedule C net of $10k, you will still wind up paying $4330 in tax, not including state, if you are adding Uber income to your other yearly income at the 28% rate.

If you average $1/mile in reported 1099 income for all your business miles, that means that you drove 30,000 miles in order to generate that $30k, and if you add the resulting additional IRS tax bill to your cost per mile it adds 14 cents per mile to your running costs, just for taxes. ($4330 tax/30,000 miles = 14.43 cents per mile).

Of course, if that $10k net is your ONLY reported income then you will not be paying any tax and therefore will not have that extra 14 cent per mile cost.

If I made any miscalculations then feel free to flame me and I will make the appropriate edits and/or apologies. Thank you.


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## Ubernic (Apr 24, 2016)

I am pretty sure dead miles are always a losing proposition, what the tax deduction does is reduce the blow because at least it adds to your write offs. In all actuality we should be avoiding dead miles at all costs if possible.


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## mjhawk (May 13, 2016)

FAC said:


> I have iPhone and found an awesome app that lets me track surges in ten locations. If the app is on, even when I'm not online it notifies me of surges on my list. A have a few near home and few in other locations. So when I'm not driving I watch the surge to learn the patterns. What I love about the app is that it's in real time based on pax app. Also you can modify location for whatever platform your driving. I have all my locations set to select. So if I'm home and not doing anything and it's surging select around me i turn on the app. I learned where to go and when by using this app. As a result most my fares are select surge. Works great for me.


What's the app called if you don't mind me asking?


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

mjhawk said:


> What's the app called if you don't mind me asking?


The surge app. Really creative huh? Check out my thread here, I talk about it more. https://uberpeople.net/threads/awesome-surge-app-for-ios.79352/#post-1132499

I love this app. It has helped me drive smarter, make more money, and be safer. I don't pick up paxs from downtown after 9-10ish. Had a couple scary incidents. After watching heat map I added those locations and found new parts of town that surge at same rate as downtown with a different quality of pax. Worth checking out!


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## mjhawk (May 13, 2016)

Thank you, I will check it out


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

hanging in there said:


> I am sorry, but I really am having a hard time coming up with any scenario in which adding extra dead miles can be "profitable".
> 
> Here's the math as I see it.
> 
> ...


Deadheading is not driving long distances to pick up a pax, so your entire premise is faulty.

I deadhead to and from areas that consistently generate large fares. I profit by avoiding short rides which generate less profit for roughly the same total miles. I'm in the 28% tax bracket before deductions but my Uber miles all but eliminate my Uber tax burden. Being that I generate other business income, my excess Uber miles also reduce my tax burden beyond my Uber profit.

Anyways, using your numbers of 43%, I saved 7 cents a mile in taxes in 2015. So, just like I said, dead miles can be profitable.


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## AintWorthIt (Sep 30, 2014)

So dead miles are profitable? I've now seen it all......


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## gofry (Oct 20, 2015)

These forums are full of drivers trying to convince themselves (and others) that not making money, or even losing money driving for Uber is a great tax dodge. It is sad.


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## NuberUber (Dec 28, 2015)

gofry said:


> These forums are full of drivers trying to convince themselves (and others) that not making money, or even losing money driving for Uber is a great tax dodge. It is sad.


Why is everyone so sad around here??


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## NuberUber (Dec 28, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> I never sad anything about being sad. Are you sad? Ubering minds want to know.


Just pointing out that everyone is constantly commenting about how "sad" something is. This is sad. That is sad. Y'all are sad. They are sad. Frankly, it is sad.

I hope everyone cheers up soon!


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## Bill Collector (Dec 17, 2015)

I get sad when I dead mile back home at the end of the day.. Once in a blue moon though the pax destination is in my neighborhood.. When it's surging and stacked calls get sent, I'm super happy!


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## hanging in there (Oct 1, 2014)

ChortlingCrison said:


> I never said anything about being sad. Are you sad? Ubering minds want to know.


Hard to imagine a "ChortlingCrison" being sad, that would make you a "CryingCrison"


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

gofry said:


> These forums are full of drivers trying to convince themselves (and others) that not making money, or even losing money driving for Uber is a great tax dodge. It is sad.


When your cost to drive is low enough and your tax liability from your work other than Uber is high enough, it is a profitable writeoff. I wouldn't call it "great" because there are things even more profitable, but it is profitable.


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## Bigman (Sep 22, 2015)

Ubernic said:


> Instead of every thread stating how horrible Uber is, we all lose money, blah blah blah. Let's have a thread helping people in good markets capitalize and make a profit.
> 
> 1. Avoid dead miles as much as possible. The way I do this is after a ride, if I am not already in a good spot, I will open up the rider app, try to find the nearest area with no other drivers, go there, and pick up a fare back into town (works most of the time). Since I am on Select, I will switch to my X account and do an X ride back to town, it covers gas and then some so I don't need to drive back on my own dime. If X is surging and I was an X driver, it may be worth it to drive back without a rider, but if it isn't surging, the method I posted works well.
> 
> ...


I have a question. How can you know how many drivers are in a certain area?


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## Craig M (Jun 4, 2016)

LondonONTdriver said:


> Hit "arrived" when you are three mins away from Pax. Sit two mins idle waiting for them to get to car. If they are not there you can collect cancel fee. Every minute counts!


Sure you could do that but customers get pissed if you start billing them before they even get in the car. Which equals bad ratings. Is there a way to avoid that?


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## LondonONTdriver (Oct 29, 2015)

Craig M said:


> Sure you could do that but customers get pissed if you start billing them before they even get in the car. Which equals bad ratings. Is there a way to avoid that?


Well hitting"arrived" just starts the 5 min wait timer. Hitting "start trip" is what actually starts the billing of the ride. Do NOT hit start trip until the customer is in the car and ready to go.


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## UberAnt39 (Jun 1, 2016)

FAC said:


> I have iPhone and found an awesome app that lets me track surges in ten locations. If the app is on, even when I'm not online it notifies me of surges on my list. A have a few near home and few in other locations. So when I'm not driving I watch the surge to learn the patterns. What I love about the app is that it's in real time based on pax app. Also you can modify location for whatever platform your driving. I have all my locations set to select. So if I'm home and not doing anything and it's surging select around me i turn on the app. I learned where to go and when by using this app. As a result most my fares are select surge. Works great for me.


But how do you know which vanishing surges to chase? I find driving towards a surge is like a boat in water, the bow just pushes the water away around it. But then I can make any traffic light go red just by wanting to pull away at it, so maybe it's just me.


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## MGuber (Jun 4, 2016)

Ubernic, how can you tell how many drivers are in an area?


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## Craig M (Jun 4, 2016)

LondonONTdriver said:


> Well hitting"arrived" just starts the 5 min wait timer. Hitting "start trip" is what actually starts the billing of the ride. Do NOT hit start trip until the customer is in the car and ready to go.


Great point! Thanks for the info!


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## FAC (Mar 27, 2016)

UberAnt39 said:


> But how do you know which vanishing surges to chase? I find driving towards a surge is like a boat in water, the bow just pushes the water away around it. But then I can make any traffic light go red just by wanting to pull away at it, so maybe it's just me.


I'm not chasing them. I've been using the app for a while now and tracking the trends in different areas of town. So I have a better understand of where and when surge hits. I also like the app because I refuse to pick up downtown on weekends. Not worth the headache. So I click on one of my locations and it will even open up your fav navigation to take you wher you want Togo.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Here' the Bible of profit maximization that has been working for me for better than two years.

Uber best practices for safety, high ratings, and profit maximization.

• Don't even think about driving until you've purchased a commercial livery insurance policy. That'll run you about $4500 per year so you're going to be doing a lot of driving at first. But you really have no choice in the matter. Your personal insurance company is going to drop you if they learn you're driving for Uber. And the Uber contingent liability policy DOES NOT cover your medical claim or your property claim in the event you are involved in an at-fault accident.
• Dual channel dashcam. Don't ask why. Just get one and install it.
• Never pick up a pax with a rating lower than 4.7. (Jesus, how hard is it to be a 5-star pax? How about not being a d*u*h*bag?)
• Never respond to a ping more than 10 minutes away. (Yes, it might be a decent fare, but the odds are against you.)
• If you're traveling, never respond to a ping behind you.
• When you arrive at pickup location and pax is not present, DO NOT call or text the pax. Start a stop watch and cancel at 5:01 and move on. A pax who lacks the basic courtesy of being ready when you arrive is likely not a pax you want in your car in the first place. After all, the pax called YOU.
• For the love of God, NEVER had out gum, candy, mints, water, etc. to paxs. There is no upside, it costs you money, and it creates more mess for you to clean up.
• If a pax leaves something behind in your car. DO NOT make the effort to return it. If you follow Uber's rules it'll actually cost you money and time to return it. If the pax needs it back, he/she will track you down through Uber. When that happens you can negotiate an appropriate fee to return the item. It doesn't matter what the item is - wallet, phone, eyeglasses, event tickets, clothing, jewelry, etc.
• ABC - Always Be Compensated. You're an independent contractor. Don't do anything without being paid. If you wish to run your car as a charity the folks over at Meals on Wheels would love to speak with you.

Some of these items may seem a little harsh to the new driver, but time and experience will show you that these practices not only work, but that they work very well. As a new driver, there's no value in re-inventing the wheel, as it were.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Craig M said:


> Great point! Thanks for the info!


Also, hit the ARRIVED button when you're still about 30 seconds from actually stopping at the pin drop point. The benefit is twofold: the pax knows you're there and had better be ready, and you get a head start on the 300-second wait before you can collect your no-show fee. And if the pax isn't there and ready, DO NOT call or text. You should have started a stopwatch when you hit the ARRIVED button, so when you get to 300 seconds - cancel, collect, and leave. Your time is far too valuable to wait on a pax who lacks the common decency of being ready when you arrive.


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## Ubernic (Apr 24, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Here' the Bible of profit maximization that has been working for me for better than two years.
> 
> Uber best practices for safety, high ratings, and profit maximization.
> 
> ...


Nope.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Ubernic said:


> Nope.


Yes, actually. It's been working beautifully for two years, as I earlier stated. Countless new drivers have thanked me for moving them quickly along the learning curve with this advice. You will, too, as you gain more knowledge and experience.
Anything else I can clarify for you?
No need to thank me. I'm here to help.


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## Ubermikein (Jul 23, 2016)

Ubernic said:


> Instead of every thread stating how horrible Uber is, we all lose money, blah blah blah. Let's have a thread helping people in good markets capitalize and make a profit.
> 
> 1. Avoid dead miles as much as possible. The way I do this is after a ride, if I am not already in a good spot, I will open up the rider app, try to find the nearest area with no other drivers, go there, and pick up a fare back into town (works most of the time). Since I am on Select, I will switch to my X account and do an X ride back to town, it covers gas and then some so I don't need to drive back on my own dime. If X is surging and I was an X driver, it may be worth it to drive back without a rider, but if it isn't surging, the method I posted works well.
> 
> ...


Someone did a great job with the 'math' of being an Uber partner, including taxes and a lot more and it was pretty ugly re: a money neutral proposition. while trashing your own car with miles and maintenance . I will find it and repost


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## Ubermikein (Jul 23, 2016)

Simon said:


> My strat
> 
> Stay home, wait for ping. Pick up the pax (within my howetown) go to wherever they are going. Then wait 15 mins get ping in that area, rinse repeat.
> 
> ...


Deluded. You don't count the cost of doing business from depreciation/maintenance of every mile driven with Uber, tax implications and more. When you do the math (won't do it for you), you are making less than a McD's burger flipper... Fact


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## Ubernic (Apr 24, 2016)

Ubermikein said:


> Deluded. You don't count the cost of doing business from depreciation/maintenance of every mile driven with Uber, tax implications and more. When you do the math (won't do it for you), you are making less than a McD's burger flipper... Fact


Just calm down there turbo. You cannot do the math for every driver, and you have no clue what people are making. Every trip, market, and situation is different. You can't just throw it all under one roof and say "Fact! You don't make any money!" I think you are being extra rude by calling people deluded. So many variables that are unique to each driver and market. Incentives, surge, freeway miles vs city miles, and different market rates just to name a few. I think it is you who has not thought this through. One person cannot just "do the math" for every Uber driver. That is like me saying "you can't open an Italian restaurant, it's impossible, I did the math and I would break even!" Anyone can see why that statement sounds silly, now your comments are just as silly for similar reasons.


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## Ubermikein (Jul 23, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Yes, actually. It's been working beautifully for two years, as I earlier stated. Countless new drivers have thanked me for moving them quickly along the learning curve with this advice. You will, too, as you gain more knowledge and experience.
> Anything else I can clarify for you?
> No need to thank me. I'm here to help.


People love abusing their cars for below minimum wage. Do the math


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Ubermikein said:


> People love abusing their cars for below minimum wage. Do the math


 Yeah. I hung up the keys.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

Make sure to run errands when a trip takes you near somewhere you needed to go anyway. I've not had to "pay" for an errand in town in over a year. It means logging on when it's slow and having extra dead miles but you'd be driving them anyway and now they're deductible


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

Ubermikein said:


> People love abusing their cars for below minimum wage. Do the math


I have done the math, repeatedly. I know when and where to drive. I know which rides to accept. I know which areas to work and which to avoid. I "make" money doing Uber. And I'm smart enough at the end of the year to "lose" money with the IRS. It ain't rocket science kids.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

ginseng41 said:


> Make sure to run errands when a trip takes you near somewhere you needed to go anyway. I've not had to "pay" for an errand in town in over a year. It means logging on when it's slow and having extra dead miles but you'd be driving them anyway and now they're deductible


Excellent idea...unless it's 2am. My car has 170K miles on it.I have been able to write off every last mile so far for Uber, Lyft, or one of my other businesses. I paid $18K for the car new. I have since legally expensed over $65K against taxes.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Excellent idea...unless it's 2am. My car has 170K miles on it.I have been able to write off every last mile so far for Uber, Lyft, or one of my other businesses. I paid $18K for the car new. I have since legally expensed over $65K against taxes.


I think your car earned a profit.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> I think your car earned a profit.


Yeah! No kidding. I gave the car to my son several months ago, but I still run a few miles in it every month that I track and deduct. But since I don't do Uber/Lyft any longer, I find other miles to deduct.


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Ubermikein said:


> Deluded. You don't count the cost of doing business from depreciation/maintenance of every mile driven with Uber, tax implications and more. When you do the math (won't do it for you), you are making less than a McD's burger flipper... Fact


Search my posts before you make a judgement on my driving. I do the math.. it costs $.38 per mile to operate my 2016 Kia Sorento SXL AWD V6. Dont assume..


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

I think what people get confused about is what cash flow is, profit and savings. Driving is great for cash flow, nothing beats it. A profit or loss is not real money, it is on your tax returns. Savings is what most drivers, not on here, don't have. They don't have the money they need to fix their car, even though they have great cash flow and they don't have money for a new car. If you look at your savings, the cash you really have from this job after cash flow, will determine if this is worth it or not. Most say its not since their cash flow went to bills, gas, brakes, tires and needing another car sooner than if they weren't driving for cash flow in the first place.


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## Ubermikein (Jul 23, 2016)

Different cars have vastly different operating costs. A Prius vs. the person with the Kia Sorento that costs .38 cents a mile. My car, a 2008 Ford Taurus with the 24Valve DOHC engine is in the same range. This brings up another point. Is a passenger going to be comfortable in the back seat if a Prius? No. I have been in many a Prius and seats are hard and there is not much legroom. The Prius driver likely has operating costs that are .18 cents a mike range. Should rider pay for more comfort? I am not talking about premium cars. I am talking about XL cars for they are not all created the same and the costs to operate it. Taxes are not much help for a lot of drivers No way to get around the basic fact. You are going to prematurely age you car driving for Uber and are you getting compensated fairly enough to justify it? A lot of people have not done the math. Unless you have a new car with maintenance covered under warranty, major repairs such a struts (rear struts/springs of the rear end of most cars =800.00) and any other mechanical things that go down. Many drivers have seen their AC go down due to the high strain of this hot summer. Compressor and labor = 850.00, Tires , 500.00, brakes up to 600.00 plus all around and on and on. You have to plan for these expenses coming sooner the more you drive for it will take you below minimum wage wage status The gentleman with the new Kia Sorento likely has a decent car payment to account for as well. With the rate cuts in the last 18 months, Uber is pricing drivers out of the market. With 50% of drivers leaving after just one year, they will eventually run out of drivers. Most people can't maintain their cars like Cab companies do. Ubers quest for market share at all cost (aka drivers) will soon bite them in the arse .


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## Ubermikein (Jul 23, 2016)

Simon said:


> Search my posts before you make a judgement on my driving. I do the math.. it costs $.38 per mile to operate my 2016 Kia Sorento SXL AWD V6. Dont assume..


 .38 cents a mile including the car loan? Insurance?


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

Ubermikein said:


> .38 cents a mile including the car loan? Insurance?


If I part-time Uber, the costs of my vehicle loan and insurance are fixed, whether I drive or not.


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> If I part-time Uber, the costs of my vehicle loan and insurance are fixed, whether I drive or not.


Loans these days likely say no rideshare allowed. The insurance goes up when you file a claim, the more you drive the more likely. Your insurance does not cover rideshare so you are not covered by them at all, if its your fault. Now, how much less are you really making now?


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

5 Star Guy said:


> Loans these days likely say no rideshare allowed. The insurance goes up when you file a claim, the more you drive the more likely. Your insurance does not cover rideshare so you are not covered by them at all, if its your fault. Now, how much less are you really making now?


OK, you're one of those.

1. Please provide evidence of loans forbidding "rideshare". That "likely" crap sounds like a hedge to me. I asked Cap 1, they had no issue. 
2. Over 1000 rides, no accident. Of course, I didn't have an at fault accident before that either. 40 years of driving.
3. My vehicle doesn't move in phase 1. In phase 2 and 3, I'm fully covered.

I'm still making what I was making before your terrible examples. Care to try again?


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> OK, you're one of those.
> 
> 1. Please provide evidence of loans forbidding "rideshare". That "likely" crap sounds like a hedge to me. I asked Cap 1, they had no issue.
> 2. Over 1000 rides, no accident. Of course, I didn't have an at fault accident before that either. 40 years of driving.
> ...


Yup. 

Your next car might have a clause that states rideshare is not allowed, did you get your car this year? Some say you can't, you're lucky.
You can get in an accident anytime, has nothing to do with your past record. You're lucky there too, not everyone here is.
It's a good idea not to move in phase 1, not everyone can find a parking spot when logged in. You are not fully covered in 2 and 3, how do you figure that one?


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

5 Star Guy said:


> Yup.
> 
> Your next car might have a clause that states rideshare is not allowed, did you get your car this year? Some say you can't, you're lucky.
> You can get in an accident anytime, has nothing to do with your past record. You're lucky there too, not everyone here is.
> It's a good idea not to move in phase 1, not everyone can find a parking spot when logged in. You are not fully covered in 2 and 3, how do you figure that one?


Now it's "might". Seriously?
Accidents can happen anytime. You're just being dramatic to support your opinion.
I have the same deductible driving for myself as I do driving for Uber. I'm not sure what the problem is? It's easy not to move in phase 1. When the ride ends, sign out. Park and wait.


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

m1a1mg said:


> Now it's "might". Seriously?
> Accidents can happen anytime. You're just being dramatic to support your opinion.
> I have the same deductible driving for myself as I do driving for Uber. I'm not sure what the problem is? It's easy not to move in phase 1. When the ride ends, sign out. Park and wait.


Some list it, go check for yourself like everyone else should.
No you're point is you're unlikely to have one, not sure what that's all about?
You don't have the same deductible, unless you do have rideshare or TNC Gap insurance on your policy, then state that you do.
Most people can't park and wait, the forum here is for everyone, not just you.


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## Louisvilleuberguy (Aug 3, 2016)

The only way to make real profit driving is to of course try to do what you said above but create a culture whee tips are the norm. Hers the Truth. Uber pays the drivers at best break even money. No different than waiting staff who get 
Aid a very small, hourly wage and have to do an exceptional job or they starve. Rideshare is a great concept and allows passengers to ride at the minimum cost then reward theor driver based on their performance. 

No one would consider waiting tables for under half the minimum wage without tips and that is what Uber is trying to convince people to do and they are trying to convince customers that drivers are making plenty and that tipping is just the drivers being greedy.

untill the culture changes and the truth is widely known we will continue to struggle. This one of the few industries where doing an exceptional job gets you nothing. Well it gets you stars but I quit working for stars around 2 years of age if not earlier.

People are always going to gripe and and complain that's life. I love what I do with uber just hate the culture that has been created and the misinformed of the public.


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

I drive a 2013 camry hybrid. I've purchased special ridesshare insurance. In 2015 my costs came to $0.48. I'm assuming that since gas has gone down and my car is another year older it will be less this year.


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

5 Star Guy said:


> Some list it, go check for yourself like everyone else should.
> No you're point is you're unlikely to have one, not sure what that's all about?
> You don't have the same deductible, unless you do have rideshare or TNC Gap insurance on your policy, then state that you do.
> Most people can't park and wait, the forum here is for everyone, not just you.


You claimed existed. I'm not checking anything. The burden of proof is yours.

Uber in SC is the same deductible as my personal policy. I'm not sure what is hard to comprehend.

The last bit you posted makes no sense. If I choose to work the area where I dropped off, then I park and wait. If I want to work another area, I turn off the app and go there. How freaking hard is that to understand? People who drive UberX and drive around looking for passengers are morons. It's not exactly like you can be hailed.


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## Hunt to Eat (Nov 19, 2015)

Ubermikein said:


> .38 cents a mile including the car loan? Insurance?


Not even close...


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## Ubermikein (Jul 23, 2016)

Ubernic said:


> Just calm down there turbo. You cannot do the math for every driver, and you have no clue what people are making. Every trip, market, and situation is different. You can't just throw it all under one roof and say "Fact! You don't make any money!" I think you are being extra rude by calling people deluded. So many variables that are unique to each driver and market. Incentives, surge, freeway miles vs city miles, and different market rates just to name a few. I think it is you who has not thought this through. One person cannot just "do the math" for every Uber driver. That is like me saying "you can't open an Italian restaurant, it's impossible, I did the math and I would break even!" Anyone can see why that statement sounds silly, now your comments are just as silly for similar reasons.


in EVERY market Uber has driven down the rates drivers get and that is the end game. They don't care about the drivers. What happens if gas goes up to 3.00/gallon, do you think Uber will raise drive rates. A snowballs chance in hell that will happen. The CEO is worth 6 billion and most of the corporate office take home huge salaries off our backs, meanwhile the company is still losing money after gouging the drivers rates.


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## Ubermikein (Jul 23, 2016)

ginseng41 said:


> I drive a 2013 camry hybrid. I've purchased special ridesshare insurance. In 2015 my costs came to $0.48. I'm assuming that since gas has gone down and my car is another year older it will be less this year.


Dumb question from a 2 month driver. Doesn't Uber provide insurance from the ride share part? I have insurance on my vehicle from Liberty Mutual that does not tell me I can't have passengers ect, hence would it override any ride share insurance? Regarding your car. Seems like it would be the perfect Uber car, 48 MPG in the city and highway(?) I am wondering how your cost could be 0.48 cents when a guy driving a 4 wheel drive Kia Sorento (probably 19 city. 26 highway. big v6) cost is 0.36 cents ?


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## ginseng41 (Nov 30, 2014)

The easy part first. He isn't doing the math correctly. Users insurance covers certain things but if you're in an accident while on a trip, your policy will drop you and you'll be screwed unless you have a policy that covers rideshare. This varies state to state. You can get one that's a hybrid in some places like Virginia. In other states you'll need commercial insurance. Mine is only a little extra while cI'm merciless is way more


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## EX_ (Jan 31, 2016)

I've transitioned into driving weeknights in my area. Less roaches on the map and don't have to work as hard.


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

Ubermikein said:


> Dumb question from a 2 month driver. Doesn't Uber provide insurance from the ride share part? I have insurance on my vehicle from Liberty Mutual that does not tell me I can't have passengers ect, hence would it override any ride share insurance? Regarding your car. Seems like it would be the perfect Uber car, 48 MPG in the city and highway(?) I am wondering how your cost could be 0.48 cents when a guy driving a 4 wheel drive Kia Sorento (probably 19 city. 26 highway. big v6) cost is 0.36 cents ?


You need to figure out your own math, most here do not include everything or consider having to buy another car sooner and having the money put aside. Also, people have interest to pay and different taxes they owe. You can't compare someone's cost with yours, it's probably wrong.

You are not covered with your normal insurance and Travass insurance does not include your medical bills or a rental. If you can prove you are out of work they should pay for that and there is a 1K deductible for any damage to your car. Your best bet is to get the rideshare insurance.


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## EX_ (Jan 31, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Here' the Bible of profit maximization that has been working for me for better than two years.
> 
> Uber best practices for safety, high ratings, and profit maximization.
> 
> ...


This 100%.
Had to learn these tricks myself through experience, especially with the majority of my pax being oblivious college students.


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## Ubermikein (Jul 23, 2016)

Hunt to Eat said:


> Yes, actually. It's been working beautifully for two years, as I earlier stated. Countless new drivers have thanked me for moving them quickly along the learning curve with this advice. You will, too, as you gain more knowledge and experience.
> Anything else I can clarify for you?
> No need to thank me. I'm here to help.


People love abusing their cars for below minimum wage. Do the math


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## m1a1mg (Oct 22, 2015)

Ubermikein said:


> People love abusing their cars for below minimum wage. Do the math


Sp you quit then???


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## Ubermikein (Jul 23, 2016)

m1a1mg said:


> Sp you quit then???


No I was making a statement whose sentiment seems widespread throughout this forum. Someone shared that Uber created a unique business model and shared that Cab companies could do the same thing. I believe Cab companies have a better handle o their operating costs and many have downsized or shutdown vs. operating at a loss. Uber has cut rates 44% over 18 months and that has to be hard on the drivers. I am new to Uber and finding their business model lacking in many key area's. Yes we are contract type employees, but a lot of people here have invested in different cars ect to make real decent (aka not poverty) wages at Uber and it seems to this newbie (2 months) that management does not really care about the drivers. Yes, Uber has made some nice gestures with one example being getting 15% off at Firestone service centers and a few other national service centers. I think if management would work with the drivers and even create a driver council for say the top 25 markets at first to be the voice of the drivers talking directly to management, working together. I think the result would be a more motivates and more profitable work force, less turnover (Uber looses 50% of their drivers every year re: turnover. It 'seems" (correct me if I am wrong) that management and the riders together have the drivers by the .. well you know and are squeezing tighter and tighter. What happens if/when they go IPO, the pressure for profit (which they are not making now ) will increase. I think I driver council would be a great open communication tool so that the drivers and management are more closely connected. There are some smart, college educated (no you don't need college to be smart) people driving for Uber. I am a college grad (20 years ago) from a top 10 business school with dual majors in marketing and economics. In summary, I think Uber could work better if they were not so hell bent on putting Lyft completely under and any other new comer.


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## I_Like_Spam (May 10, 2015)

Ubermikein said:


> In summary, I think Uber could work better if they were not so hell bent on putting Lyft completely under and any other new comer.


You got a good point, but you should consider the benefits to Uber's current shareholders with the current business plan.

When an IPO is marketed, market share and a big presence in as many markets as possible will create a stir, a demand, for the new security. It will enable current Uber shareholders to reap a lot bigger profit when the stock looks like a sure thing and they are getting out.


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## 5 Star Guy (Nov 7, 2015)

When the stock is made public the first thing they'll do is screw it up.


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## Ubermikein (Jul 23, 2016)

EX_ said:


> I've transitioned into driving weeknights in my area. Less roaches on the map and don't have to work as hard.


Explain less roaches on the map .


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

Ubermikein said:


> .38 cents a mile including the car loan? Insurance?


Yes


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## NFIH (Jul 26, 2016)

5 Star Guy said:


> I think what people get confused about is what cash flow is, profit and savings. Driving is great for cash flow, nothing beats it. A profit or loss is not real money, it is on your tax returns. Savings is what most drivers, not on here, don't have. They don't have the money they need to fix their car, even though they have great cash flow and they don't have money for a new car. If you look at your savings, the cash you really have from this job after cash flow, will determine if this is worth it or not. Most say its not since their cash flow went to bills, gas, brakes, tires and needing another car sooner than if they weren't driving for cash flow in the first place.


Yeah, I think this pretty much nails it. I've been doing this for about nine months now, working it less than full time, but more than part time. This earns me just enough to cover some household bills, but there is no way to save based on it and it is absolutely not enough to cover any major expenses related to the car's maintenance. I wasn't even able to pay up front the $1,300 it cost me for winter tires. It went straight to credit, where it remains to this day. And now I have to replace the summer tires, which have worn down. I *know* without calculating anything that wear and tear make this gig a break-even proposition at best--but almost certainly a loss. But I do it because of the cash flow advantage and flexibility compared to other similarly paid low-wage work.

It really does strike me as being much like a payday loan operation in these respects.

But I'm aware of all this and my goal remains to find proper FT work at which point I will instantly ditch Uber.


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## EX_ (Jan 31, 2016)

Ubermikein said:


> Explain less roaches on the map .










Look at them scurrying about.


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## BoiseGal (Aug 10, 2016)

It goes without saying: don't chase surges. I'm cynical, but I think Uber posts surge maps intentionally to thin out typically busy areas so that drivers head to the surges and get no pings. Meanwhile, where it's busy, regular rates apply. My last surge ride was on 7/4/16.


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## BlackHatRideshare (Sep 15, 2016)

FAC said:


> I have iPhone and found an awesome app that lets me track surges in ten locations. If the app is on, even when I'm not online it notifies me of surges on my list. A have a few near home and few in other locations. So when I'm not driving I watch the surge to learn the patterns. What I love about the app is that it's in real time based on pax app. Also you can modify location for whatever platform your driving. I have all my locations set to select. So if I'm home and not doing anything and it's surging select around me i turn on the app. I learned where to go and when by using this app. As a result most my fares are select surge. Works great for me.


App name?


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