# A Few Words on Gas and Operating Costs



## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

While gas prices have been steadily rising, Uber rates have stayed the same. It's also useful to note that Uber rates across the country have no correlation to gas prices. Look at the gas price heat map in the image below:










Of course, the USA still has some of the cheapest gas in the world - in Europe they are paying well above $6 a gallon, and over $7 in Norway (!).

While we are paying $3.60 a gallon here in Los Angeles, there are areas of the Midwest where prices are less than $2.20 a gallon. But drivers in the midwest earn virtually the same as a Los Angeles driver. In Houston they are paying about $2.50 a gallon. And in comparing rates:

*Los Angeles UberX driver rates:*

Base: 0.00
Per Mile: 0.72
Per Minute: 0.1125
*Houston UberX driver rates:*

Base: 0.75
Per Mile: 0.70
Per Minute: 0.0825
While Houston's mile/minute rates are slightly lower, they have a base fare, and Los Angeles does not. Of course, Los Angeles is a very busy market. As I drive LA and not Houston, I can't say how busy Houston is, how often they have surge and boosts, etc.

And while in Los Angeles gas costs 44% more than in Houston, how does that affect our overall cost of operation? Insurance in Los Angeles is more expensive too. According to QuoteWizard, auto coverage in Los Angeles averages at $166 a month, but its only $122 a month in Houston. And of course if you are doing Rideshare, you'll have higher mileage and Rideshare coverage so these rates are even higher.

For the purposes of the cost analysis I'm going to assume full time drivers, driving 48,000 miles a year (4000 a month). Considering the attrition rate is 96% in the first year, the per mile costs are calculated based on first year of car ownership (first year is always higher due to sales/use tax even for used cars).

I'll use my car as a comparison, a 2011 Camry Hybrid with 69,000 miles at purchase. bought for 10K but with tax, license, etc. It was 11,400. I specifically wanted a car that was mostly depreciated already, Yet still in good condition and qualified for the Lyft power driver bonus (this was before the PDB became unreachable).

*VEHICLE DEPRECIATION:* Assuming I sold or traded it at 117,000 miles, Kelly Bluebook indicates it would be worth either $6400 for trade in or $10,100 if sold to a private party. Edmunds indicates a more realistic private party price of $8100, which is what I'll use for calculations. As such the car had $3300 in depreciation the first year of service, and against 48k miles, that's *6.875 cents a mile.*

*GAS*: My hybrid Camry gets about 32 mpg. At $3.60 a gallon that's 11.25 cents a mile. If it was in Houston at $2.50 a gallon it would be 7.8 cents a gallon.

*INSURANCE*: StateFarm full coverage and the Rideshare add-on is costs about $220/month. I estimate that in Houston this would be more like $150. Assuming driving 4000 a month, that's *5.5 cents a mile* in Los Angeles or 3.75 cents a mile in Houston.

*MAINTENANCE*: Tires at Costco, Michelins with a 60k tread, cost a little less than $600 mounted, so *tires are a penny a mile.* Hybrid brakes last about 100K miles, and I'm redoing them this week myself - Powerstop kit is $320, and lift time at my DIY garage will be about $100 - about 0.4 cents a mile, I'll lump it in with my fluid changes and other maintenance. Mobil1 extended and an mobil1 filter every 8k-10k miles or so is $40 for oil and filter at Walmart, and $25 in lift time. About 0.6 to 0.8 cents a mile - assuming other maintenance like brakes, we'll put *total* *maintenance at 1.5 cents a mile.*

*CLEANING*: Car washes every week at $10 work out to a penny a mile.

*LOS ANGELES OPERATING COST PER MILE* (figures rounded to tenth of a cent)

Fuel cost: 0.113
Depreciation: 0.o69
Insurance: 0.055
Maintenance: 0.015
Tires: 0.01
Car Wash: 0.01

*TOTAL: 0.272 per mile*​
*HOUSTON OPERATING COST PER MILE*

Fuel cost: 0.078
Depreciation: 0.o69
Insurance: 0.038
Maintenance: 0.015
Tires: 0.01
Car Wash: 0.01

*TOTAL: 0.22 per mile*​
So while the difference in fuel cost is 44% higher in Los Angeles, the difference in total operating cost is only about 18% lower in Houston.

*COMPARING OTHER VEHICLES*

One thing I've noticed now is the why variety of cars that people use on Huber ask. So there are quite surprising like a Dodge Charger, which I'll show in a moment is really not a very bright car to use for Uber X!

I think the best car for Uber X or Lyft would be an 8 to 10-year-old Prius. A 2009 Prius with 100K miles should run around $6500 after tax license etc. You should expect about 45 mpg.

*LA 2009 Prius OPERATING COST PER MILE*

Fuel cost: 0.08
Depreciation: 0.o5
Insurance: 0.05
Maintenance: 0.015
Tires: 0.01
Car Wash: 0.01

*TOTAL: 0.215 per mile*​
*LA 2018 (new) Dodge Charger OPERATING COST PER MILE (first year)*

Fuel cost: 0.19
Depreciation: 0.32 (that if you paid cash. with financing it's more like 0.46)
Insurance: 0.07
Maintenance: 0.01
Tires: 0.01
Car Wash: 0.01

*TOTAL: 0.61 per mile *(0.75 if you financed it)​
I am still shocked by folks using new cars and cars with such poor fuel economy to drive Lyft and UberX. You're going to lose money doing this. The margins are way to narrow driving UberX - you need to do everything you can to trim expenses, minimize dead miles, etc. Sad as it may be, this is a world where pennies count.

A car loses 60% of its value in the first five years, and that's just driving a moderate 12k-15k miles. If you're buying a car to get into this, you want something with reasonable mileage and older than 5 years. 8 years old and 100K miles is I think about the "sweet spot".

At the end of driving a week, which is better? $215 in operating costs or $610 in operating costs? Because in the example provided here, that Dodge will cost you an extra $395. Even just for the out of pocket gas money, the poor gas milage Dodge will cost an extra $110 in gas for the week ($190-$80).

-Andy

*Some resources for doing your own calculations:*

Resale Values:
https://www.edmunds.com/appraisal/
https://www.kbb.com/whats-my-car-worth/?ico=a

True Cost To Own:
https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html

Insurance Comparisons:
https://quotewizard.com/auto-insurance/los-angeles-california​


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## Fewber (May 16, 2017)

I think uber should be charging fuel surcharges to the pax... that is the only way to stabilize rates fairly... but then again nothing about uber is quite fair...


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Interesting analysis. I suspect much of the difference in gas prices is not really gas _cost_..but TAX.

But I'm not too concerned with gas prices. I drive mostly to provide critical transportation services to the under-served communities who need free stuff.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

You should factor in deadmiles into the operating costs

A good driver has minimal deadmiles but they’re never zero


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## Transportador (Sep 15, 2015)

JimKE said:


> Interesting analysis. I suspect much of the difference in gas prices is not really gas _cost_..but TAX.
> 
> But I'm not too concerned with gas prices. I drive mostly to provide critical transportation services to the under-served communities who need free stuff.


I wonder if we could write off losses doing Uber as donations or volunteering costs...Could be a great way to buy my new Land Rover


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## #professoruber (Feb 19, 2018)

And the humdinger here is that the rates will continue to stay the same due to the idiot driver that drive day in and out at base fare. 

The issue is not with Uber but the drivers that continually drive at these rates. Uber knows this and as a matter fact, has the data to support it. 

Regardless of local, I am pretty sure Uber factors in average $ per mile, trip, hour, and week. And when you look at each city on paper, the end result is that we are all making about the same. 

This fuel discussion has been going on for years. Drive smarter and problem solved.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> You should factor in deadmiles into the operating costs
> 
> A good driver has minimal deadmiles but they're never zero


I listed operating cost per mile DRIVEN - so this is not to be directly compared to what we are paid per mile.

What we are paid per mile driven is:

(miles with pax * pay per mile) / (miles with pax + deadmiles) = pay per mile driven

So if we drive 100 miles, and 65 of those are with a passenger:

(65 * 0.72) / 100 = we get 46.8 cents a mile not including time charges, that is if you're a Rockstar and you can get your dead miles down to 35% of miles driven. I imagine in most markets deadmiles are 50% or more...


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

Incidentally, we're at about $2.69-$2.79 here in Miami and about $.35 of that is tax. So the actual retail price of the gas is really about $2.30-$2.40.

How much is your tax per gallon in California?

That's what I love about the Left Coast. You crank your taxes up out of sight to pay for "free stuff," and then complain about the cost of doing business. And wonder why businesses leave your Utopia!


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

DrivingForYou said:


> I listed operating cost per mile DRIVEN - so this is not to be directly compared to what we are paid per mile.
> 
> What we are paid per mile driven is:
> 
> ...


I'm usually averaging about $1/mile even including deadmiles when you factor in the surges/boosts

If not counting deadmiles it's probably about $1.20/mile


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

They're trying to pass laws that make you disclose your ride was used for rideshare which will devalue your vehicle another -20% resale. If passed it will show up on CarFax


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

BurgerTiime said:


> They're trying to pass laws that make you disclose your ride was used for rideshare which will devalue your vehicle another -20% resale. If passed it will show up on CarFax


Which state is trying to paws such a law?


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

BurgerTiime said:


> They're trying to pass laws that make you disclose your ride was used for rideshare which will devalue your vehicle another -20% resale. If passed it will show up on CarFax


If that happens people will just drive them until the wheels fall off. That's what I do anyway.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

BurgerTiime said:


> They're trying to pass laws that make you disclose your ride was used for rideshare which will devalue your vehicle another -20% resale. If passed it will show up on CarFax


It SHOULD be on carfax.

If i was looking to buy a new used car to turn into a taxi...

And i had 2 siennas of the same vintage and the same mileage..

I would pick the one that wasn't used for ride-sharing.

IF every single stat was identical, we would all pick the one that wasn't used for ride-sharing every time.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

The bottom line is this: If the costs of driving rideshare are too much for you...*don't drive rideshare. * If you stop and think about it, you don't really have to do much analysis. *It's NOT difficult to figure out.*



Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> It SHOULD be on carfax.
> 
> If i was looking to buy a new used car to turn into a taxi...
> 
> ...


We have a guy in Miami driving a repainted Crown Vic police car. It has the big front bumper and everything -- definitely NOT a recycled pissmobile. Cheap white paint job.

I wish I'd had the presence of mind to take a pic!


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## Just Another Uber Drive (Jul 15, 2015)

DrivingForYou said:


> While gas prices have been steadily rising, Uber rates have stayed the same. It's also useful to note that Uber rates across the country have no correlation to gas prices. Look at the gas price heat map in the image below:
> 
> View attachment 223596
> 
> ...


Great post. Thanks for taking the time putting it together and sharing it with us.


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## socallaoc (Dec 23, 2017)

#professoruber said:


> The issue is not with Uber but the drivers that continually drive at these rates.


Uber's driver recruitment at mall kiosks also focus on hourly earn rates with no mention of actual costs involved. Most people just don't think of this as them operating a business, but rather as being an employee. Some probably look at this as a temporary measure, and so chose to ignore the true cost of operation.

At some point the robots will save Uber/lyft and they will become true transportation companies and not unregulated market exchanges, which is what they really are IMHO. Or the rates as they are will change. You already see this in some markets with Uber raising pax rates but not drivers. I wouldn't be surprised if pax rates don't surge but driver rates do at times in those markets.

Of course Uber and Lyft have a sense of this ticking time bomb, too.


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

Didn't they raise per mile cost last time the gas went up?

If they did, why aren't they doing it aga-- aahh -- I forgot... they don't even look at our cost for operations and need another huge post here again to start thinking about doing something.


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## FormerTaxiDriver♧ (Apr 5, 2018)

I use GasBuddy to find the cheapest in my market, then plan the station in my schedule.


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## Leo. (Dec 27, 2015)

JimKE said:


> Incidentally, we're at about $2.69-$2.79 here in Miami and about $.35 of that is tax. So the actual retail price of the gas is really about $2.30-$2.40.
> 
> How much is your tax per gallon in California?
> 
> That's what I love about the Left Coast. You crank your taxes up out of sight to pay for "free stuff," and then complain about the cost of doing business. And wonder why businesses leave your Utopia!


A lot of us hate the government here Francisco


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## nachoman (Aug 31, 2017)

Gas isn't getting any cheaper anytime soon...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/18/3-g...s-demand-jumps-and-crude-oil-prices-rise.html


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## RidingDirty (Mar 4, 2018)

to me Gas prices have nothing to do with Uber rates. this is a gripe you should have with IRS and the .57


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

RidingDirty said:


> to me Gas prices have nothing to do with Uber rates. this is a gripe you should have with IRS and the .57


A. It's 54.5 cents per mile (up from 53.5 last year), not 57.
B. Write offs only matter if you're actually making money. That, the money we make, is determined by the rate paid to us by Uber. 54.5 cents per mile is actually quite fair for the vast majority of drivers. It covers true operating costs and depreciation - unless you're foolish enough to be using a new car.


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## RidingDirty (Mar 4, 2018)

Whatever the write off is, my mistake.. but none the less, it’s a IRS thing IMO


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

KenLV said:


> A. It's 54.5 cents per mile (up from 53.5 last year), not 57.
> B. Write offs only matter if you're actually making money. That, the money we make, is determined by the rate paid to us by Uber. 54.5 cents per mile is actually quite fair for the vast majority of drivers. It covers true operating costs and depreciation - unless you're foolish enough to be using a new car.


The problem is... in parts of Florida...

16c a mile in costs can still wipe out a huge chunk of earnings. $40 per day in costs/ $100 in earnings

30c a mile in costs and most of the earnings are gone, $75 costs to $100 in earnings.

and 54c a mile in costs is.... more than it costs me to rent and fuel a taxi. $135 in costs/ $100 in earnings/ While i can rent/fuel a taxi for $90-95

the math is terrible no matter how you look at expenses in some places...

My guess is that costs are closer $50 a day.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Even some manufacturers say doing rideshare will void your warranty! https://www.consumerreports.org/buying-a-car/how-to-avoid-buying-a-used-uber-or-lyft-car/


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## jlong105 (Sep 15, 2017)

BurgerTiime said:


> Even some manufacturers say doing rideshare will void your warranty! https://www.consumerreports.org/buying-a-car/how-to-avoid-buying-a-used-uber-or-lyft-car/


"Passengers can put excess wear and tear on vehicle interiors by getting sick, breaking off plastic trim pieces, and leaving stains on the upholstery, according to driver postings at ride-share forums, such as uberpeople.net and ridesharecentral.com."

Children do the same thing.



jlong105 said:


> "Passengers can put excess wear and tear on vehicle interiors by getting sick, breaking off plastic trim pieces, and leaving stains on the upholstery, according to driver postings at ride-share forums, such as uberpeople.net and ridesharecentral.com."
> 
> Children do the same thing.


"If you see 50,000 miles in one year, that's a pretty big red flag that it was owned by an Uber or Lyft driver," said Campbell.

Or a lot of highway driving. No way to know this was rideshare.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

The manufacturers warranty is kind of irrelevant. If you buy a car new, you are going to hit the mileage 36K or 48K miles pretty quickly and you aren't covered anyhow. Same if you buy a 2 year old car with 20K miles. You might have 16K miles left on the warranty and you will go through that fast. If you have a problem meanwhile just take your stickers off and no one will think to question you about it. 
If you are looking at an older car with a lot of miles, just look at the rear passenger side. If there are issues with the door closing (not smooth), scuffing on the plastic or back of front seat, wear or staining to back seat then it's a good bet that it's been used for rideshare.


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## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

It looks like it’s surging all over California.


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## ncnealncn (Feb 15, 2018)

I would like to applaud you on calculating actual costs. So many people quote ridiculous amounts they make doing this. Of course they don't calculate real costs.

I have spreadsheets so I can calculate pretty closely how much I make after real expenses. I have a Prius that gets good mileage. Unfortunately mine had low mileage when I started rideshare and my depreciation is higher than if I had an older car. Ironically I sold my old Prius before I started rideshare. It would have been the perfect vehicle with most of the depreciation gone.

Our gas is averaging $2.58, and our pay in the clip below.


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## Broken Spoke (Mar 26, 2018)

JimKE said:


> The bottom line is this: If the costs of driving rideshare are too much for you...*don't drive rideshare. * If you stop and think about it, you don't really have to do much analysis. *It's NOT difficult to figure out.*
> 
> We have a guy in Miami driving a repainted Crown Vic police car. It has the big front bumper and everything -- definitely NOT a recycled pissmobile. Cheap white paint job.
> 
> I wish I'd had the presence of mind to take a pic!


how does he get around the requirement of no crown victoria cars for uber? i read that that car is not allowed.


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

DrivingForYou said:


> While gas prices have been steadily rising, Uber rates have stayed the same. It's also useful to note that Uber rates across the country have no correlation to gas prices.


Their policies are deliberately crafted to discourage the use of gasoline powered vehicles.


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## ncnealncn (Feb 15, 2018)

dctcmn said:


> Their policies are deliberately crafted to discourage the use of gasoline powered vehicles.


They're trying to remove the independent contracted drivers also.

Self driving electric Uber Fleet.


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

ncnealncn said:


> They're trying to remove the independent contracted drivers also.
> 
> Self driving electric Uber Fleet.


I don't believe Uber will own the fleet (at least not the majority of it). It'll be independent owners and it'll function on the same basic model it does now.

I'm not saying you were indicating that Uber would own the fleet, just adding to your point.


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## ncnealncn (Feb 15, 2018)

dctcmn said:


> I don't believe Uber will own the fleet (at least not the majority of it). It'll be independent owners and it'll function on the same basic model it does now.
> 
> I'm not saying you were indicating that Uber would own the fleet, just adding to your point.


I was just kidding around not thinking about the actual future. You are probably correct. There will probably be big operators owning fleets of vehicles, and the single car person won't be able to compete at the fares that will be generated at the time.


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

ncnealncn said:


> I was just kidding around not thinking about the actual future. You are probably correct. There will probably be big operators owning fleets of vehicles, and the single car person won't be able to compete at the fares that will be generated at the time.


I do agree that bigger fleet owners will be the norm, but individuals will probably play a role. Think about how often you actually NEED your vehicle... 1 or maybe 2 hours per day? Individuals will see that they can make 22-23 hours per day of mostly passive income from their autonomous vehicle and jump on board.

The fees will probably go way down and individual vehicle owners will probably accept it because, right now, the most expensive part of TNC driving is not fuel, it's the driver's time (meaning an acceptable profit/hr to continue driving TNC) .


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

nachoman said:


> Gas isn't getting any cheaper anytime soon...
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/18/3-g...s-demand-jumps-and-crude-oil-prices-rise.html


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DrivingForYou said:


> While gas prices have been steadily rising, Uber rates have stayed the same. It's also useful to note that Uber rates across the country have no correlation to gas prices. Look at the gas price heat map in the image below:
> 
> View attachment 223596
> 
> ...


Not to defend uber, but Houston drivers are making less than LA. Gas is only a part of costs and from what I've read across uberpeople LA drivers are much better off than houston.

Gas is heading to $2.50 in Houston now btw.



Jesusdrivesuber said:


> Didn't they raise per mile cost last time the gas went up?
> 
> If they did, why aren't they doing it aga-- aahh -- I forgot... they don't even look at our cost for operations and need another huge post here again to start thinking about doing something.


Not in my market.


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## TricksterKane (Feb 5, 2018)

Cost of fuel in my market is around 2.70 . Was much lower last year. I don’t know why Uber won’t address this rise in fuel cost my raising the per mile payout . It’s 0.68 per mile right now. I had 2 passengers already tell me they save money using uber to work vs driving their own cars because of fuel cost. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out we are not getting paid a fair amount per mile .


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## jester121 (Sep 6, 2016)

So it should be relatively simple to make a graph showing the break-even point -- 

At what gas price does it make more sense for everyone in California to park their own car and just Uber everywhere? You'd need to use Personal Car MPG for the other axis, but it's a pretty simple calc.


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## Ron Jeremy Sez (Jul 9, 2017)

Fewber said:


> I think uber should be charging fuel surcharges to the pax... that is the only way to stabilize rates fairly... but then again nothing about uber is quite fair...


They may do that...but you won't see a dime of it!


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## ncnealncn (Feb 15, 2018)

I find it hard to believe that it is cheaper for someone to ride-share than the price of gas in their own car. They would have to be getting near zero MPG for this to be accurate. There are other factors involved like traffic, parking, convenience, and depreciation on their own car.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

jlong105 said:


> "Passengers can put excess wear and tear on vehicle interiors by getting sick, breaking off plastic trim pieces, and leaving stains on the upholstery, according to driver postings at ride-share forums, such as uberpeople.net and ridesharecentral.com."
> 
> Children do the same thing.
> 
> ...


Or a sales person. One of my riders said he gets a new car every two years because he covers the three west coast states and he hits 100,000 miles that quickly.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

jester121 said:


> So it should be relatively simple to make a graph showing the break-even point --
> 
> At what gas price does it make more sense for everyone in California to park their own car and just Uber everywhere? You'd need to use Personal Car MPG for the other axis, but it's a pretty simple calc.


In the Los Angeles area it is frequently cheaper to take Uber than drive your own non-hybrid car, due in large part to the very high cost of parking (or complete lack of parking). Street meters typically cost $2/hr or more. Parking at a parking structure is $20 or more. Valet at a restaurant is typically $8 or more.


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## Nonya busy (May 18, 2017)

DrivingForYou said:


> While gas prices have been steadily rising, Uber rates have stayed the same. It's also useful to note that Uber rates across the country have no correlation to gas prices. Look at the gas price heat map in the image below:
> 
> View attachment 223596
> 
> ...


your analysis is good but funny at the same time. "It never rains in Southern California" song comes to mind. Car washes only once a week? .

In chicago car wash at most every 3 days but more likely every day or every other phone.


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## tcaud (Jul 28, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> It SHOULD be on carfax.
> 
> If i was looking to buy a new used car to turn into a taxi...
> 
> ...


Dude, what part of "most nice used vehicles with recent model years and high mileage were used for business" do you not understand? When you get a good deal, you're likely using a business car (or a car that was used for long roadtrips which is every bit as bad if not worse).


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## Brian G. (Jul 5, 2016)

It's easy if you don't like your job quit? Haha. Rideshare companies will not raise rates due to gas increases like cab companies used to due do the oversaturated of endless amounts of drivers. I'm sure most drivers will stay on the road when and if it hits $4 a gallon this summer.


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## TahitianBigKahuna (Feb 24, 2018)

The higher the fuel cost the less ride share drivers on the road .... this = more rides for the drivers who are smart enough to drive a cost efficient car. If this happens and there are more times of surging we smart ones make more. However, at the moment when there are less drivers on a day by day basis Uber/Lyft may increase fares to get more cars back on the road. Until such time there is a shortage of cars don't expect more money. Again .... drive a cost efficient car. Either one that gets great gas mileage or an older car you payed cash for. Better yet why not do both 

I drive a small Honda 4-door .... I average 31 miles per gallon overall. In hindsight I probably should of retained a Prius but I'll be OK. I see Chargers, PU's, SUV's .... ugg, they won't last long when most pings are for UberX.

Most ride share drivers are not savvy .... there is an educational curve to driving ride share. Being at the right place at the right time/day is very important in my neck of the woods. Knowing when to drive is very important. Many new ride share drivers go broke because they haven't been educated on the tricks of the trade .... thus high turnover .... aren't we lucky


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## tcaud (Jul 28, 2017)

TahitianBigKahuna said:


> The higher the fuel cost the less ride share drivers on the road .... this = more rides for the drivers who are smart enough to drive a cost efficient car. If this happens and there are more times of surging we smart ones make more. However, at the moment when there are less drivers on a day by day basis Uber/Lyft may increase fares to get more cars back on the road. Until such time there is a shortage of cars don't expect more money. Again .... drive a cost efficient car. Either one that gets great gas mileage or an older car you payed cash for. Better yet why not do both
> 
> I drive a small Honda 4-door .... I average 31 miles per gallon overall. In hindsight I probably should of retained a Prius but I'll be OK. I see Chargers, PU's, SUV's .... ugg, they won't last long when most pings are for UberX.


They will likely raise boost by a 10th or so (or offer more quests).


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## TahitianBigKahuna (Feb 24, 2018)

Where I live we never see boost or quests ..... except for uber eats .... but I told them a long time ago to take me off of eats ..... does not make financial sense where I live.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Disgusted Driver said:


> The manufacturers warranty is kind of irrelevant. If you buy a car new, you are going to hit the mileage 36K or 48K miles pretty quickly and you aren't covered anyhow. Same if you buy a 2 year old car with 20K miles. You might have 16K miles left on the warranty and you will go through that fast. If you have a problem meanwhile just take your stickers off and no one will think to question you about it.
> If you are looking at an older car with a lot of miles, just look at the rear passenger side. If there are issues with the door closing (not smooth), scuffing on the plastic or back of front seat, wear or staining to back seat then it's a good bet that it's been used for rideshare.


It's not of you have issues within those miles. It has to with miles and not time. So it's quite relevant. Especially if you have NO Warrenty within those miles usually covered.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

BurgerTiime said:


> It's not of you have issues within those miles. It has to with miles and not time. So it's quite relevant. Especially if you have NO Warrenty within those miles usually covered.


I got you, that's what I wad trying to say. You will go through those miles quickly and in the event you have a problem just take your stickers off and make a warranty claim, they aren't going to question you unless you have commercial plates.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

tcaud said:


> Dude, what part of "most nice used vehicles with recent model years and high mileage were used for business" do you not understand? When you get a good deal, you're likely using a business car (or a car that was used for long roadtrips which is every bit as bad if not worse).


Well...

There's 60 miles per week day of commuting,

Or 300 miles a weekend in ridesharing..

Which is going to be worse?

How do you tell the difference?

300 miles isn't 300 miles, its how it was used.

A part timer putting in 300 miles every weekend is probobly MORE reflective of the industry as a whole than 1500-2000 miles a week.


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## moJohoJo (Feb 19, 2017)

Got news for you . 
There is 100 % nowhere in California that you can buy gas at $3.30 a gallon . 
It's $3.79 a gal. here and that's for the cheap unleaded gas .


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## Leo. (Dec 27, 2015)

moJohoJo said:


> Got news for you .
> There is 100 % nowhere in California that you can buy gas at $3.30 a gallon .
> It's $3.79 a gal. here and that's for the cheap unleaded gas .


There isn't except my secret spot where it's 3:19 lad. So you're 99.999% correct


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## Lets_Eat (Oct 11, 2016)

Airlines and companies such as UPS, FedEx and even my local drinking water delivery service have added a fuel surcharge for years which is passed directly to a customers bill to protect their operational cost.

If I can suggest that it may not be necessary to get an immediate rate increase from Uber technologies to win the war.

However many good arguments can be made from your article and should be argued on a point by point basis with Uber *collectively* to return drivers to some sort of profitability.

Thanks for your effort in writing this article! I think you've shown that you are capable to bring these points with Uber directly and seek fairness and changes especially in markets where drivers are exploited.


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## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

Uber will give us a paycut before a payraise.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

JimKE said:


> Incidentally, we're at about $2.69-$2.79 here in Miami and about $.35 of that is tax. So the actual retail price of the gas is really about $2.30-$2.40.
> 
> How much is your tax per gallon in California?
> 
> That's what I love about the Left Coast. You crank your taxes up out of sight to pay for "free stuff," and then complain about the cost of doing business. And wonder why businesses leave your Utopia!


This is the close of business day on Wednesday for the price of wholesale gas for the entire country The difference between the RBOB and prices at the pump is taxes, transportation and profit. California even has refineries so transportation should be cheap. The working class of California is so screwed.

2.0683

U.S. dollars and cents per gallon
Contract Month: MAY 18
As of: Wednesday, April 18, 2018
Source: NYMEX - CME Group
Open: 2.0460
High: 2.0783
Low: 2.0433
Last: 2.0747
Change: +.0271
Estimated Volume: 41114
Prior Day Open Interest: 73007
Contract Specifications


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

DrivingForYou said:


> While gas prices have been steadily rising, Uber rates have stayed the same. It's also useful to note that Uber rates across the country have no correlation to gas prices. Look at the gas price heat map in the image below:
> 
> View attachment 223596
> 
> ...


Rates are wrong for Houston buddy. I get about 74 cents/mile on x, and about 11 cents a minute.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

Trebor said:


> Rates are wrong for Houston buddy. I get about 74 cents/mile on x, and about 11 cents a minute.


Good to know - can't look up driver rates directly so I took 75% of posted pax rates. Doesn't change the premise.


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## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

DrivingForYou said:


> Which state is trying to paws such a law?


New York


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## Tm771984 (Mar 12, 2016)

moJohoJo said:


> Got news for you .
> There is 100 % nowhere in California that you can buy gas at $3.30 a gallon .
> It's $3.79 a gal. here and that's for the cheap unleaded gas .


Its actually 3.23 in orange county, california. Only at one spot tho ha ha the rest are 3.30 and up to 4 in select areas. Might i add, keep in mind would u that uber rates are at $0.73 per mile here in oc despite high gas prices. But earlier i heard oc raised our rates by 20 cents possibly, but i havent seen the email. Ill find out a lil later for sure. Thats a huge climb from that huge drop.


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## RideshareGentrification (Apr 10, 2018)

Denver just got a 5% rate pay increase but only in UberX and Pool which is ridiculous. I was sorta stoked to see a 5% pay increase until I read that I never take pool and less than 15% of my rides are uberx. If they're raising pay for gas purposes they should definitely at least make that pay increase to XL and Select since they both have lower mpg in most cases


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DrivingForYou said:


> Good to know - can't look up driver rates directly so I took 75% of posted pax rates. Doesn't change the premise.


Well it's not 11 cents per minute. That's the pax rate, not that it matters with up front pricing.

I don't take many base trips but this ping was within half a block and no surge anywhere. Was prepared to turn it down if it was going too far. Clearly that wasn't an issue.

It shows the rates tho. FYI minimum for pax is $5.75.

Also FYI I'm an "80%er". New drivers make less.


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## fxcruiser (Apr 17, 2014)

DrivingForYou said:


> While gas prices have been steadily rising, Uber rates have stayed the same. It's also useful to note that Uber rates across the country have no correlation to gas prices. Look at the gas price heat map in the image below:
> 
> View attachment 223596
> 
> ...


Sir, Your attention to detail(s) is Impressive! I tend to believe that you are a "Shill", way too many details etc. Fine, BUT! In all your CPA level blathering about cost this and cost that I see NO mention of Hours worked...AND when, ie. hauling drunks at 2 in the AM etc. Workdays? 7 a week Methinks. How about that 1099? Did ya pay your "Quarterlies"? Please show these "Numbers" as well. I live in DFW Tx area. Buying fuel (today) $2.45/gal. I own and operate MY OWN Airport transfer SVC. A run tonight...My residence to DFW Int. - pickup Client- transport to His residence- drive home. Total time= 50 minutes. Total miles in my 2014 30MPG Nissan Rogue=29. Cost for fuel $2.45. Fare with tip = $40.00 Net for Me with NO scrUber Fee=$37.55...for less than a Hour..from my driveway to my driveway...NO scrUber lots etc. WHY in thee wide world of sports do y'all keep doing this shit!!??


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

DrivingForYou said:


> While gas prices have been steadily rising, Uber rates have stayed the same. It's also useful to note that Uber rates across the country have no correlation to gas prices. Look at the gas price heat map in the image below:
> 
> View attachment 223596
> 
> ...


What is your minimum fare?


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Don't count insurance in operating expenses. Only count added expenses incurred due to driving rideshare, it's not as if you would be driving uninsured if you weren't driving Uber.

Don't use a new car either. Keep shopping until you find one with high years and low miles.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> What is your minimum fare?


The minimum we get in LA is 2.62



Squirming Like A Toad said:


> Don't count insurance in operating expenses. Only count added expenses incurred due to driving rideshare, it's not as if you would be driving uninsured if you weren't driving Uber.
> 
> Don't use a new car either. Keep shopping until you find one with high years and low miles.


Wrong, the car I use for rideshare is used EXCLUSIVELY for rideshare, and the insurance is much higher due to the extra miles and the extra rideshare coverage. I would not have such an expensive policy if this car was not a rideshare vehicle. My other car has a far cheaper policy.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> Don't count insurance in operating expenses. Only count added expenses incurred due to driving rideshare, it's not as if you would be driving uninsured if you weren't driving Uber.
> 
> Don't use a new car either. Keep shopping until you find one with high years and low miles.


But you have to have rideshare added. That's a cost. And your chances of an accident go up, so your chances of future insurance costs going up is there. Plus many insurance companies are now wanting to track you with snapshot, which is likely worse for an uber driver (driving at night and hard stops are watches and there's more of that of course. They also will look at mileage for future insurance increases if your mileage is higher than average for any reason.


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## RideshareGentrification (Apr 10, 2018)

If you are using a car you would already own anyway then Insurance shouldn't be considered in cost of business . However if you have an extra car just because you're doing rideshare you would include that also if you add rideshare endorsements that would be added 

I feel like the majority of rideshare drivers aren't using multiple cars, they own one car and use it for rideshare then the only thing they would be adding to expenses is the rideshare add on if they even have it which isn't a significant cost usually

I currently Uber in 3 different cars but run 4 cars on turo . If it weren't for rideshare and turo I'd own 2 cars so I only consider that extra insurance in my personal expenses . Now when I do taxes that's a whole other story


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## dctcmn (Sep 21, 2017)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> (driving at night and hard stops are watches and there's more of that of course.


Why are there more hard stops? If you got 4 heifers in the car with you, you gotta account for that and start braking sooner (pump those brakes so they don't overheat).


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

fxcruiser said:


> Sir, Your attention to detail(s) is Impressive! I tend to believe that you are a "Shill", way too many details etc. Fine, BUT! In all your CPA level blathering about cost this and cost that I see NO mention of Hours worked...AND when, ie. hauling drunks at 2 in the AM etc. Workdays? 7 a week Methinks. How about that 1099? Did ya pay your "Quarterlies"? Please show these "Numbers" as well. I live in DFW Tx area. Buying fuel (today) $2.45/gal. I own and operate MY OWN Airport transfer SVC. A run tonight...My residence to DFW Int. - pickup Client- transport to His residence- drive home. Total time= 50 minutes. Total miles in my 2014 30MPG Nissan Rogue=29. Cost for fuel $2.45. Fare with tip = $40.00 Net for Me with NO scrUber Fee=$37.55...for less than a Hour..from my driveway to my driveway...NO scrUber lots etc. WHY in thee wide world of sports do y'all keep doing this shit!!??


Every professional driver should provide as much attention to detail for their situation as the OP. How can one know their net without knowing their cost to drive? How can one know their net hourly income without knowing their cost to drive? It's more than just gas. Once one knows their cost to drive, its simply to determine an hourly income. I don't believe the OP is a shill. The OP pointed out how and why some people shouldn't be driving. The OP provided two different operational costs for two different markets. The OP provided two different operational costs for two different vehicles. Put the wrong vehicle in the wrong market and the driver will lose money for every drive. Put the right car in the right market and the driver has a chance.

Mr. cruiser, you did not net $37.55. If you're driving a new, financed Charger, your pre-tax net was $18.25. In the Rouge, I estimate you pre-tax net to be $29.38.

The insurance issue has been well thought out. But I think repairs need to be added into the OP's costs. A new car with a warranty may have $0 repairs. But an older car will have repairs. For instance, if 10% of cars need a $3000 transmission at 100,000 miles, that's a cost of $0.003. Then add in water pump, oil pump, fuel pump, shocks, springs, any of the dozens of sensors, etc. Edmunds True Cost to Own is a help. Although MIT may have messed up driver's gross income, I think they correctly estimated the average tnc driver costs at $0.30 per mile.

I like the gas price heat map. It shows how wacked out California is. The California gas tax is the highest in the country at more than $0.50 a gallon. We need two more heat maps. One showing the typical gross per market for drivers. The other showing the cost of living, weighted for drivers, meaning gas costs would have a high emphasis along with rent and fast food. The cost of a house is beyond the typical Uber driver so actual housing costs would be irrelevant for most drivers. Then overlay the gross income with the cost of living to see which markets are the most profitable. For instance, SF may have double the gross of LV but the cost of living for a driver is three times higher in SF than LV then LV is a more profitable market.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

bsliv said:


> The insurance issue has been well thought out. But I think repairs need to be added into the OP's costs. A new car with a warranty may have $0 repairs. But an older car will have repairs. For instance, if 10% of cars need a $3000 transmission at 100,000 miles, that's a cost of $0.003. Then add in water pump, oil pump, fuel pump, shocks, springs, any of the dozens of sensors, etc. Edmunds True Cost to Own is a help. Although MIT may have messed up driver's gross income, I think they correctly estimated the average tnc driver costs at $0.30 per mile.t.


Thank you for your comments. I did address repairs, and lumped them into "maintenance", though I might do well to elaborate.

My car is a 2011 Camry hybrid, purchased with 69k miles. The brake actuator ($3000) was replaced under recall at about 60k miles, so it is relatively new. They hybrid system and battery are warranteed for 150k miles.

I do all my own work on my car. I just did the brake pads and rotors for instance - cost was $300 parts, and $90 to rent the lift at the DIY garage I use, plus 3 hours of my time. Because it's a hybrid this brake job will last another 100k miles.

The engine, transaxle, and other systems are not under warranty, but as Toyota are well known to last a very long time. As such I expect no major repairs for the next 48,000 miles.

I'm calculating cost of operation based on annual milestones. So after a year and 48,000 miles, my expectations on maintenance and repairs will shift, and while I'll estimate more out of pocket for repairs, the annual depreciation cost will decrease. While I haven't run the numbers I expect it'll be nearly a wash, in particular because the first year of ownership depreciation includes the $1200 in taxes and fees from from initial purchase of this used car.

As such I expect my depreciation costs next year to be about 4 cents a mile, and the year after that to about 3 cents a mile - but that later year will also no doubt have some higher repair and maintenance costs.

If there is a battery failure, I can handle that repair. It requires the Prolong equipment ($600) plus one or more new modules at $50/each, plus a long weekend. So under $1000. A worst case would be an engine rebuild or swap which would be more like $1500.

So if in the third year there's a major cost of $2000 in repairs, that's 4 cents a mile - but depreciation that year dropped to 3 cents.


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## Retired Senior (Sep 12, 2016)

FormerTaxiDriver♧ said:


> I use GasBuddy to find the cheapest in my market, then plan the station in my schedule.


You know, I was listening to the Clark Howard show a few days ago, and a woman called in asking about gas quality and price per gallon. Clark said go for the cheapest because they all have to follow the minimum requirements per State law.
In my experience, he was wrong to say this. The cheapest gas per gallon around here is the Massey Fuel station on the edge of Bridgeport and Stratford. I thought that I was being real slick filling my tank there every morning... until the engine of my Santa Fe began coughing and stalling out. I had to use STP engine cleaner and move to a station that sold better, cleaner, and more costly gas.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

Retired Senior said:


> You know, I was listening to the Clark Howard show a few days ago, and a woman called in asking about gas quality and price per gallon. Clark said go for the cheapest because they all have to follow the minimum requirements per State law.
> In my experience, he was wrong to say this. The cheapest gas per gallon around here is the Massey Fuel station on the edge of Bridgeport and Stratford. I thought that I was being real slick filling my tank there every morning... until the engine of my Santa Fe began coughing and stalling out. I had to use STP engine cleaner and move to a station that sold better, cleaner, and more costly gas.


"Top Tier" has exceeds govt. regulations - top tier is a standard developed by automakers. Stick to the cheapest top tier and you'll be fine. But avoid gas that is not top tier.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

DrivingForYou said:


> While gas prices have been steadily rising, Uber rates have stayed the same. It's also useful to note that Uber rates across the country have no correlation to gas prices. Look at the gas price heat map in the image below:
> 
> View attachment 223596
> 
> ...


Tires on a charger will cost more and last a lot less.

Maintenance will cost MORE because you're trying to maintain warranty.


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## ncnealncn (Feb 15, 2018)

How do I calculate this depreciation?

I was in a small accident with barely noticeable dent in plastic bumper and the guy who hit it paid me cash outside of insurance. I received over $950 and did not repair it.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

#professoruber said:


> And the humdinger here is that the rates will continue to stay the same due to the idiot driver that drive day in and out at base fare.


Used to think the same but I've come around to the thought that it's desperation, not stupidity, that drives people to work at base rates. And that's regardless of vehicle or industry. I decided to do a few hours of food delivery yesterday and a restaurant that I regularly deliver from has two marked parking spaces for all delivery drivers. So I pull up and notice a pretty new Mercedes Benz in one of the spots. I glance over and see a middle aged woman sitting in the car. So I get out of my car and walk in the restaurant, head to the front and announce that I have a GrubHub order to pick up. About a minute or so later the lady from the Mercedes walks in and comes up to the counter as I move to a few feet away. I hear her say that she has a Door Dash order to pick up and gives the customer name. I almost had a hard time believing that a someone would work Door Dash in a damn near new Mercedes Benz but there ya go.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

ncnealncn said:


> How do I calculate this depreciation?
> 
> I was in a small accident with barely noticeable dent in plastic bumper and the guy who hit it paid me cash outside of insurance. I received over $950 and did not repair it.


I mention somewhere in the original post. Use KBB or Edmunds and do a valuation of a vehicle - try different mileages & years and you can estimate depreciation. IMO best to annualize. Estimate your annual mileage and see the difference from a current mileage to a projected mileage, then divide by total number of miles to get a per mile depreciation. Add 5% per year for time.


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

ncnealncn said:


> I was in a small accident





DrivingForYou said:


> I mention somewhere in the original post. Use KBB or Edmunds and do a valuation of a vehicle - try different mileages & years and you can estimate depreciation. IMO best to annualize. Estimate your annual mileage and see the difference from a current mileage to a projected mileage, then divide by total number of miles to get a per mile depreciation. Add 5% per year for time.


I think Mr ncn was more concerned with the bumper damage. There are a few ways to determine how much the damage devalues the car. One way is to use a professional appraiser. Probably too expensive to use one, tho. Another way is to do the appraisal yourself. Get an estimate for the repair. Add between 10% and 50% to the estimate and subtract that number from the kbb value. The 10% - 50% needs to be added to the estimate for entrepreneurial profit. The buyer isn't 100% sure how much the repair will cost (even if you give him a written estimate). The uncertainty to the buyer is reflected in a lower value. Since I've been a licensed appraiser for 30 years, I can speak with some authority on this subject.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

bsliv said:


> I think Mr ncn was more concerned with the bumper damage. There are a few ways to determine how much the damage devalues the car. One way is to use a professional appraiser. Probably too expensive to use one, tho. Another way is to do the appraisal yourself. Get an estimate for the repair. Add between 10% and 50% to the estimate and subtract that number from the kbb value. The 10% - 50% needs to be added to the estimate for entrepreneurial profit. The buyer isn't 100% sure how much the repair will cost (even if you give him a written estimate). The uncertainty to the buyer is reflected in a lower value. Since I've been a licensed appraiser for 30 years, I can speak with some authority on this subject.


Oh makes sense - I think I misunderstood his statement.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

DrivingForYou said:


> While gas prices have been steadily rising, Uber rates have stayed the same. It's also useful to note that Uber rates across the country have no correlation to gas prices. Look at the gas price heat map in the image below:
> 
> View attachment 223596
> 
> ...


Update . . .


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## Tom Harding (Sep 26, 2016)

DrivingForYou said:


> While gas prices have been steadily rising, Uber rates have stayed the same. It's also useful to note that Uber rates across the country have no correlation to gas prices. Look at the gas price heat map in the image below:
> 
> View attachment 223596
> 
> ...


In high traffic areas, like L.A. and S.F., the rates are similar to Chicago (base=$1.36, time=$.16, mile=$.76) for UberX at 80%, but there is usually a lag time between calls. NW Indiana is a LOW traffic area and is saturated with too many drivers, where there can be up to hours between calls, so higher rates (base=$1.60, time-$.16 and mile=$1.36). If NW Indiana rates were adjusted to allow for time between trips equal that of L.A., the rate would probably be 2 or 3 times more. 
I drove a taxi in Calumet City, Il (south suburb or Chicago) in the 70s. The taxi rate wasn't much different that Uber's rates today, and that was almost 50 years ago. Back then the "flag drop" was $1.00, the mileage rate was $.11 per 1/9 mile and the time was $.10 per minute. Compare that to the current Chicago rate or even the L.A. rate. Today in Chicago the taxi rate is $.46 per minute, $2.25 per mile and a "flag drop" of $1.90 (I think). And the taxis have additional charges Uber doesn't, like 50% surcharge for out of city trips and $.50 to $1.00 for added passengers.


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## DrivingForYou (Aug 6, 2017)

Tom Harding said:


> In high traffic areas, like L.A. and S.F., the rates are similar to Chicago (base=$1.36, time=$.16, mile=$.76) for UberX at 80%, but there is usually a lag time between calls. NW Indiana is a LOW traffic area and is saturated with too many drivers, where there can be up to hours between calls, so higher rates (base=$1.60, time-$.16 and mile=$1.36). If NW Indiana rates were adjusted to allow for time between trips equal that of L.A., the rate would probably be 2 or 3 times more.
> I drove a taxi in Calumet City, Il (south suburb or Chicago) in the 70s. The taxi rate wasn't much different that Uber's rates today, and that was almost 50 years ago. Back then the "flag drop" was $1.00, the mileage rate was $.11 per 1/9 mile and the time was $.10 per minute. Compare that to the current Chicago rate or even the L.A. rate. Today in Chicago the taxi rate is $.46 per minute, $2.25 per mile and a "flag drop" of $1.90 (I think). And the taxis have additional charges Uber doesn't, like 50% surcharge for out of city trips and $.50 to $1.00 for added passengers.


LA has NO base rate. LA is

Base: $0.00
Mile: $0.72
Min : $0.1125

And during rush hour a mile takes 5 to as much as 10 minutes.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

fxcruiser said:


> Sir, Your attention to detail(s) is Impressive! I tend to believe that you are a "Shill", way too many details etc. Fine, BUT! In all your CPA level blathering about cost this and cost that I see NO mention of Hours worked...AND when, ie. hauling drunks at 2 in the AM etc. Workdays? 7 a week Methinks. How about that 1099? Did ya pay your "Quarterlies"? Please show these "Numbers" as well. I live in DFW Tx area. Buying fuel (today) $2.45/gal. I own and operate MY OWN Airport transfer SVC. A run tonight...My residence to DFW Int. - pickup Client- transport to His residence- drive home. Total time= 50 minutes. Total miles in my 2014 30MPG Nissan Rogue=29. Cost for fuel $2.45. Fare with tip = $40.00 Net for Me with NO scrUber Fee=$37.55...for less than a Hour..from my driveway to my driveway...NO scrUber lots etc. WHY in thee wide world of sports do y'all keep doing this shit!!??


I have to laugh at your post. You are so wonderful, so much better than us. Not just because you are clocking over $40 an hour (that's every hour of every day you are available right?) BUT you also have a magic car that costs nothing but gas, nothing ever breaks and it never needs replacing. Hats off to you!

Seriously though, you are full of it if you say you NET 37.55 on that trip. You have no idea what your costs are so you are obviously an amateur who got lucky and got a lead on picking a person up from the airport. Wow! Do me a favor and don't throw poo unless you have something meaningful to say.


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## Trebor (Apr 22, 2015)

DrivingForYou said:


> Good to know - can't look up driver rates directly so I took 75% of posted pax rates. Doesn't change the premise.


No it doesn't. It never made any sense to me why yall get paid basically the same. Gas is just a small part. The bigger issue for me is the cost of living difference.

My 4 bedroom/ 2 story cookie cutter house in a good part of the city is $1300/month. Compare this to the apartment I lived in for $700 in a Californian suburb and it was a STUDIO apartment, oh and the complex qualified for section 8. The last apartment I lived in Houston was $800, 2 bedrooms in a desirable area. Good enough that one neighbor was a doctor, the other a recently divorced attorney.


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## lovepreet (May 1, 2018)

Great Post


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## possibledriver (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> Interesting analysis. I suspect much of the difference in gas prices is not really gas _cost_..but TAX.
> 
> But I'm not too concerned with gas prices. I drive mostly to provide critical transportation services to the under-served communities who need free stuff.


I read some time ago that about 60 cents of every dollar spent on fuel ends up in the pockets of futures traders who only buy and sell contracts for a specific number of barrels of crude but never have to take possession of the actual crude. I can't find the supporting article now tho. The big futures traders listed in the article were a lot of the same banks that crashed the economy in 2008.


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## Disgusted Driver (Jan 9, 2015)

possibledriver said:


> I read some time ago that about 60 cents of every dollar spent on fuel ends up in the pockets of futures traders who only buy and sell contracts for a specific number of barrels of crude but never have to take possession of the actual crude. I can't find the supporting article now tho. The big futures traders listed in the article were a lot of the same banks that crashed the economy in 2008.


Gas on the commodity market is about $2.06 today anything over that is a few cents for distribution and the rest is tax and markup. I doubt that it's 60% profiteering on oil though. I am sure that there is some speculation going on and some profiting via futures contracts but that's like any other commodity. So me people make money on it, a few lose if they don't know what's going on but the bulk of the money in oil goes to the nation where the oil is being drawn and the oil company. Then there's transportation, refining, distributing and retail getting their cut and then the state comes in and adds 50 cents to 2 bucks in taxes per gallon. So if I had to say, I would guess the feds and states are getting the most out of it.


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

I might have mentioned this before. If I did, forgive me.

A few years ago at my car club meeting we had a speaker from BP. He said that refineries can supply several brands within a geographical area. When gasoline leaves the refinery, it is all the same. The difference is which additives and the amounts used are what makes one brand different from the others.


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## possibledriver (Dec 16, 2014)

JimKE said:


> The bottom line is this: If the costs of driving rideshare are too much for you...*don't drive rideshare. * If you stop and think about it, you don't really have to do much analysis. *It's NOT difficult to figure out.*
> 
> We have a guy in Miami driving a repainted Crown Vic police car. It has the big front bumper and everything -- definitely NOT a recycled pissmobile. Cheap white paint job.
> 
> I wish I'd had the presence of mind to take a pic!


I drove those as a cabbie. The fuel mileage is ghastly but it's hella fun when you stomp the pedal!


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## Bevital (Mar 9, 2017)

Got this message from Uber "The booking fee is changing, but your per-trip earnings won't be affected", they raised booking fees in NM by .50. This was right after the new CEO had told us we are "Partners". Sure feels like it when gas goes up by .70 in two months and Uber rates aren't affected.


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## Joshua J (Aug 1, 2017)

Bevital said:


> Got this message from Uber "The booking fee is changing, but your per-trip earnings won't be affected", they raised booking fees in NM by .50.


Trickle down economics in action, baby!


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Bevital said:


> Got this message from Uber "The booking fee is changing, but your per-trip earnings won't be affected", they raised booking fees in NM by .50. This was right after the new CEO had told us we are "Partners". Sure feels like it when gas goes up by .70 in two months and Uber rates aren't affected.


But we are partners. We are the ones bent over and the CEO is the one giving it to us.


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## Bob fox (May 18, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> You should factor in deadmiles into the operating costs
> 
> A good driver has minimal deadmiles but they're never zero


Important, yes. I also factor in OnTheFly miles: i dont drive separate trips to get groceries, run errands, gym etc. I do them when im near from a trip. Log out. Do the near activity. My google maps looks like a midnight sky with a thousand stars. You have to zoom in to see anything. Very useful.

This saves me many many miles each week. Maybe more than my deadmiles. If you use it right this is a hidden bonus of ridesharing. I focus on the positive instead of fretting over gas. It saves me miles for errands and most importantly Time.


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## TDR (Oct 15, 2017)

uber


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## wontgetfooledagain (Jul 3, 2018)

*"But drivers in the midwest earn virtually the same as a Los Angeles driver."*

Nice post. IMHO, I doubt midwest drivers earn as much as LA drivers.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

DrivingForYou said:


> I imagine in most markets deadmiles are 50% or more...


I started with the same assumption as you 50% dead miles. In my market X pays 75 cents per mile and 10 cents a minute so for 100 paid miles at 30 miles per hour I'd make $75 plus about $20 For planning purposes let's round that up to $100 or a dollar a mile. Assuming 50% dead miles that's 50 cents per actual driven mile.

So based on 70000 miles in a year anticipated gross income of $35000

Now for expenses

First, no self employment tax because the standard mileage deduction is more than 50 cents

I drive a gas hog of a SUV and get roughly 20 miles per gallon. Assuming $3 gas that 15 cents a mile. It is an XL but I decided to plan based on X only

figure another 5 cents for scheduled maintenance

I'm not concerned about depreciation because I plan to hang it up and retire for good in 3 years and I don't need the car when I do

FYI I have a reserve account to handle any major repairs

So the question was, should I do this thing or not? 50 cents a mile income less 20 cents expenses = 30 cents a mile x 70000 miles = $20000.

I wanted 3000 a month income so the answer should have been no, You know what they say: plan for the worst but hope for the best. The plan was a worst case scenario. So went ahead knowing that I would have to get at least a few XL rides and manage dead miles carefully to make what I wanted to make

So where am I after 9 months?

I don't keep track of dead miles, per se. Rather I have a gross income target per week and at the end of every week I look at dollars per total mile and I've been averaging between 65 and 70 cents per mile it's almost like keeping a paid miles per total miles ratio but it puts the focus on what's important..... dollars

So $0.65 per mile less $0.20 actual expenses and 60000 miles so far this year I've netted $3000 per month. Exactly what I set out to do

Bottom line is that I don't think managing dead miles to 35% of the total takes a superstar. I'm pretty close and one in a small (basically a suburban market) and god knows I'm no superstar

And I have a plan to improve on this for next year it involves more dollars per paid mile and fewer dead miles


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## possibledriver (Dec 16, 2014)

Disgusted Driver said:


> Gas on the commodity market is about $2.06 today anything over that is a few cents for distribution and the rest is tax and markup. I doubt that it's 60% profiteering on oil though. I am sure that there is some speculation going on and some profiting via futures contracts but that's like any other commodity. So me people make money on it, a few lose if they don't know what's going on but the bulk of the money in oil goes to the nation where the oil is being drawn and the oil company. Then there's transportation, refining, distributing and retail getting their cut and then the state comes in and adds 50 cents to 2 bucks in taxes per gallon. So if I had to say, I would guess the feds and states are getting the most out of it.


Most of the commodity gambling is done by the oil companies. I have no idea who they bet against tho


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## Stav53 (Nov 9, 2017)

possibledriver said:


> Most of the commodity gambling is done by the oil companies. I have no idea who they bet against tho


I was an online crude oil/unleaded gasoline futures trader many years ago.

The traders of the large oil corporations trade against each other, sitting next to each other. The best ones (those who show the biggest gains to the boss) get the bonus. (huge).

Other traders like me and million others around the world just try to ride the big boys' trade. Their trades show up on the screen but sometimes (often) they are head fakes to lure the little guy. If you don't sit on a huge pile of $$$ to be able to absorb all the fake trades, you're loosing you shirt in this speculation game.

And you start driving Uber ....


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## Guyinbp (Oct 7, 2018)

Oil companies do not "gamble" in futures markets, they hedge to prevent paying more in case prices go up.

The gamblers are the individuals speculators,proprietary trading firms, etc...

Also, it is crazy to blame the futures market for high gas prices, they only reflect supply and demand. Yes speculators can throw this off sometimes but the markets correct.

What I really find funny is the public blames speculators for high gas prices. Yet when gas goes down they don't blame them. Supply and determines price. Simple economics. Just like Uber rides, the more drivers with same demand lower prices and vice versa


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## vtcomics (Oct 9, 2018)

With oil prices tanking hard the last few days, OPEC turning the spigots near full throttle and the stock market urinating on itself the gas price discussion will simmer but not boil over....not yet anyways. 

I'm new here and have read more than once about how 96% of new drivers quit within a year. Is that really true??? I have to believe that's a hyped up number; how on earth could the model be viable with such atrocious retention???


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