# What exactly is a “shuffle” ?



## IERide (Jul 1, 2016)

I've seen several threads here with people (both riders and drivers) talking about shuffling pax, or being shuffled, or wanting to do 'the shuffle'.. It seems in a lot of these threads they are talking about entirely different things.
*So.. what, exactly does "shuffling" mean with regards to a passenger?*
(Links to sources, documentation and full bibliography preferable, but not required)


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

IERide said:


> I've seen several threads here with people (both riders and drivers) talking about shuffling pax, or being shuffled, or wanting to do 'the shuffle'.. It seems in a lot of these threads they are talking about entirely different things.
> *So.. what, exactly does "shuffling" mean with regards to a passenger?*
> (Links to sources, documentation and full bibliography preferable, but not required)


As you probably know, you often make more by NOT taking a pax than by taking one (for the time vs money aspect). The Shirlington Shuffle, is where you arrive, wait the 5 minutes, collect the cancellation fee, then move on to the next one (hopefully to do it again). For legit people it's because they simply didn't come out, didn't have a car seat, unaccompanied minor, too many pax, etc. For the less legit people, it's because they were hiding pretty well and the pax couldn't actually find the car to get in, or pax came out at like 4:45 and they pretended not to see them, or drive very slowly towards them for at least 2 minutes (then stop claiming traffic or something) so they'll cancel on their own, etc.

Basically it's where you shuffle the pax off to the next driver to get the cancellation fee (because it pays more than taking the ride likely would), and some argue it's the only way to make any actual money. While I would take those cancellation fee rides all day, every day, if I could, I personally stay on the legit side of it.

I seem to recall Another Uber Driver had a good post about this somewhere, but I can't seem to find it atm.

Some examples I found:


Pawtism said:


> I have a fairly convoluted setup in Evernote so I can keep track of everything I've sent in (in case they "lose" the ride info or something). Then cut and paste, yeah.
> 
> As Another Uber Driver has stated many times before, it's a sad situation (think he said something to the effect of "poor system setup") where you get paid more to NOT take a rider than you do to take one. If I could, I'd get nothing but underage pax, kids with no car seats, people who try to avoid surge by putting in a false address, and people who don't come outside for 5 minutes all day, every day (that would just about match my full time job pay actually).





Another Uber Driver said:


> .............thus the "Shirlington Shuffle".....................................
> 
> ..................and if you drive a hybrid, you burn no gasolene doing it (unless your high voltage batteries are almost drained), as all that you do is sit there....................................





Pawtism said:


> Guilty! 2016 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid.





Another Uber Driver said:


> .........................2014 Ford Fusion hybrid for TNC and 2015 for cab..............................





Pawtism said:


> Just to be clear, I won't do the one where I hide and hope they don't see me (as to me that's not so cool). I mean if they actually come out, I have no reason to punish them. But if they don't come out (or are underage, no car seat, are trying to avoid surge, etc), I have no problem charging 'em the fee.


https://uberpeople.net/threads/please-stop-picking-up-minors.216596/page-8



Another Uber Driver said:


> Shirlington is a district of Arlington, Virginia, which is a suburb of the Capital of Your Nation. There has been some recent construction there, which offers the opportunity to hide your car, often in plain sight. The Shirlington Shuffle takes several forms, one of which you described. The basic form of it is that you go to the address where the stick is, make no effort to locate the customer, wait the five, cancel "Rider no show"; collect cancellation fee. Frequently, you do it at a business where there is a parking lot, so that you can hide in a row of cars, somewhere.
> 
> It is a testimony to the sorry state of Uber that it pays more not to haul a passenger than it does to haul one.


https://uberpeople.net/threads/pax-who-cheat-the-surge-system-the-worst-of-the-worst.237324/page-2


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

The Shirlington Shuffle has several forms.

The most common, and the basic, is that you show up at the address of a ping, but park where the passenger will not notice you or find you. You get close enough that the Jippy Yess registers you as having covered the ping, but the passenger can not get to you, see you or find you. You let the designated time elapse, "Cancel, Rider No-Show", collect your cancellation fee and move on to your next customer.

It takes its name from the Shirlington district of Arlington, Virginia, which is a suburb of Washington.

We have several accomplished shufflers on the Washington Boards, but the Generally Acknowledged High Grand Master of the Art is our 
own roadman.

Our own koyotemohn is an Acknowledged High Worthy Master of the Art, especially on Uber Pools and Lyft Lines.

While our own New2This is an Acknowledged Accomplished Master of the Art, his True Talent lies in longhauling.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The Shirlington Shuffle has several forms.
> 
> The most common, and the basic, is that you show up at the address of a ping, but park where the passenger will not notice you or find you. You get close enough that the Jippy Yess registers you as having covered the ping, but the passenger can not get to you, see you or find you. You let the designated time elapse, "Cancel, Rider No-Show", collect your cancellation fee and move on to your next customer.
> 
> ...


I figured he'd be able to explain it better than me.


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## ratethis (Jan 7, 2017)




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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

Ah, so that's why they lowered the CXL fee from $7.50 to $3.75. Good job guys.


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## koyotemohn (Mar 15, 2017)

Squirming Like A Toad said:


> Ah, so that's why they lowered the CXL fee from $7.50 to $3.75. Good job guys.


Wrong. The cancellation fee has always been based on $3.75 for *our* region...downtown dc.

The fact they pocket 25% of the $5.00 cancellation fee when we done drove all the way there and their toes were t on the curb should tell you all you need to know about our service provider.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> The Shirlington Shuffle has several forms.
> 
> The most common, and the basic, is that you show up at the address of a ping, but park where the passenger will not notice you or find you. You get close enough that the Jippy Yess registers you as having covered the ping, but the passenger can not get to you, see you or find you. You let the designated time elapse, "Cancel, Rider No-Show", collect your cancellation fee and move on to your next customer.
> 
> ...


The shuffle then, in essence, is gaming the system to cheat people, right?

To those that do this:

Congratulations! I hope you are proud of yourselves.

Once Uber catches on to this, they will most likely cancel the cancellation fee for everyone,
and then you greedy types will have succeeded in cheating other drivers out of their
legitimate cancellation fees.

I guess this thing called integrity is in short supply around here.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

IERide said:


> I've seen several threads here with people (both riders and drivers) talking about shuffling pax, or being shuffled, or wanting to do 'the shuffle'.. It seems in a lot of these threads they are talking about entirely different things.
> *So.. what, exactly does "shuffling" mean with regards to a passenger?*
> (Links to sources, documentation and full bibliography preferable, but not required)


Shuffle is a tap dance move . . .

Part of the " Same old Song and Dance, my Friend"- Aerosmith.

( not to be confused with " moon walk".)



IERide said:


> I've seen several threads here with people (both riders and drivers) talking about shuffling pax, or being shuffled, or wanting to do 'the shuffle'.. It seems in a lot of these threads they are talking about entirely different things.
> *So.. what, exactly does "shuffling" mean with regards to a passenger?*
> (Links to sources, documentation and full bibliography preferable, but not required)


Next week: Dealing off the Bottom and card shuffling !


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## 1974toyota (Jan 5, 2018)

IERide said:


> I've seen several threads here with people (both riders and drivers) talking about shuffling pax, or being shuffled, or wanting to do 'the shuffle'.. It seems in a lot of these threads they are talking about entirely different things.
> *So.. what, exactly does "shuffling" mean with regards to a passenger?*
> (Links to sources, documentation and full bibliography preferable, but not required)


Google " The Curly Shuffle " Youtube......jmo


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## HotUberMess (Feb 25, 2018)

Here in Orlando, at the theme parks, shuffling does not pay, simply because most of your pickups will net you a high mph highway ride and there are many riders waiting to be picked up. 

However there is a phenomenon of repeat shuffle that happens because many theme park-going Uber riders are first timers, and they think they can be smart and order their Uber from inside the park and then have enough time to walk out in a huge crowd and find their Uber. Those are the only guests I shuffle.

I call everyone ahead of time at certain high-shuffle locations like the Universal pickup. My goal is to NOT shuffle them.. my goal is to get that sweet long distance 2x ride. I tell them what the procedure is so they can get in my car immediately upon pulling up and right there I save 4 minutes and increase my dollar per hour amount in a way that is advantageous to driver and rider and complies with Uber’s rules.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> The shuffle then, in essence, is gaming the system to cheat people, right?
> 
> To those that do this:
> 
> ...


The illegit version of it is, but the legit version isn't cheating them. If they aren't coming out within the 5 minutes, didn't properly prepare (no car seat, underage pax, trying to cheat surge by putting in wrong address, etc), then they are cheating us by having us drive all the way out to them for no legit ride. The fee it completely valid in that situation. Some people aren't willing to sit and wait the 5 minutes to get their fee (which I think is a failure on their part, but also their choice to make). As for me? Pawtism is getting paid... I'll sit and wait. I can't control what others do (I really wish I could, that would totally be my superpower), but I'll shuffle them legitimately.



HotUberMess said:


> Here in Orlando, at the theme parks, shuffling does not pay, simply because most of your pickups will net you a high mph highway ride and there are many riders waiting to be picked up.
> 
> However there is a phenomenon of repeat shuffle that happens because many theme park-going Uber riders are first timers, and they think they can be smart and order their Uber from inside the park and then have enough time to walk out in a huge crowd and find their Uber. Those are the only guests I shuffle.
> 
> I call everyone ahead of time at certain high-shuffle locations like the Universal pickup. My goal is to NOT shuffle them.. my goal is to get that sweet long distance 2x ride. I tell them what the procedure is so they can get in my car immediately upon pulling up and right there I save 4 minutes and increase my dollar per hour amount in a way that is advantageous to driver and rider and complies with Uber's rules.


Long 2 x rides here are fairly rare, but reguardless, if they come out in the 5 minute window, I'll haul their min fare butt, because I agreed to. At 5:01, I'm getting my fee though hehe.


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## IERide (Jul 1, 2016)

I read that in the UK, they are raising the wait time to 8 minutes before you can cancel and get the fee...
Too much shuffle?


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> The shuffle then, in essence, is *gaming the system* to cheat people, right?
> 
> Once Uber catches on to this, they will most likely cancel the cancellation fee for everyone,
> and then you greedy types will have succeeded in cheating other drivers out of their
> ...


 (emphasis added)

If you stop Sentence Number One at the end of the emphasised part, the answer is "yes". I would call it more "gaming" Uber than "cheating" the
customers, although the customer becomes "collateral damage" in this case. As long as Uber and Lyft are going to make it hard to profit from this venture, you have to game the system to extract the maximum profit. This is one reason why I am not against showing the destinations. Given the 1979 cab rates that Uber and Lyft pay, I need to be able to decline unprofitable trips. If Uber and Lyft were to pay even 2003 cab rates, I might be against showing destinations.

When I was an official of a cab company, it was rare that we gave out destinations. In fact, local regulation specifically forbade it, although we would do it, sometimes, after the driver had acknowledged the job, for purposes of identification. If you did drive a radio cab, how many times did you get the wrong "George". I know that I did, more than once. In fact, more than once, I picked up the wrong "George going to National Airport".

There is something inherently wrong with a transportation system where it is more profitable not to haul a passenger than it is to haul one (Uber and Lyft's insistence that they are "technology, not transportation", companies be damned). To be sure, as one of our interlocutors indicates (and it makes sense to me, even given my ignorance on his market), there are times and places where the Shirlington Shuffle is not profitable or, less profitable.

I expect that Uber and Lyft already are wise to it. In fact, one form of the Shirlington Shuffle is not to go to the job and get the customer to cancel after five minutes. Another form is to head the wrong way and get the customer to cancel after five minutes, or more. This still renders the cancellation fee to the driver. Lyft sends a nastygram to the driver that informs him that he is collecting too many cancellations for "not making progress toward the rider", or words similar. Uber offers the user a choice under reasons for cancellation "My driver was driving away from my address", or words similar. There are times when Uber and Lyft will deny the driver his cancellation over the above situations. The driver can protest that he was driving in that direction to get around a hazard and that he actually intended to cover the job. Uber and Lyft will render the cancellation to the driver and eat it, but, either will get wise if a given driver does that TOO frequently. This would apply even in the Capital of Your Nation, where streets closed for demonstrations and motorcades for self-important jackdonkeys who seem to think that this is a Byzantine Monarchy instead of a Republic, are everyday occurrences.

I suspect that neither has eliminated the policy, because it would result in too many stranded customers or too many customers who had to request a ride more than once or twice. If there is no cancellation fee, more than a few drivers will "cancel rider no-show" if the customer is not toes-to-the-kerb. The overwhelming majority will give it no more than two minutes. I would expect that both Uber and Lyft are aware that most of their customers not only are not toes to the kerb, but, take more than two minutes to emerge from the address. One of the TNCs' major selling points is convenience. If a customer must order a ride more than once, it obliterates the convenience factor. That will send more people to the kerb to hail a cab than already do, at least in this market, it will.

Indeed, "integrity" is in "short supply", but, it does not surprise me for more than one reason. The first is obvious: you are dealing with companies that are almost totally devoid of the slightest shred of "integrity"; why should the contractor be any different? As long as they are going to manipulate, game. hustle and cheat you, you must do the same to get something that might approach "what is yours".

The other thing is that this business is fiercely competitive and it is capitalistic. "Integrity" is often an altruistic trait. Jack London stated : "competitive capitalism and altruism are mutually destructive entities; they can not co-exist". He wrote that in 1901. That is not an inaccurate observation, even to-day, more than one-hundred years later. This is a kill-or-be-killed, proverbial dog-eat-dog business. I tried, for years, to do this honestly and forthrightly. I only got burned. To be sure, I still do this as honestly as I possibly can. I do not cheat customers deliberately. In fact, some of the popular forms of cheating the customer (taking a scenic route) do not pay. Despite all of the above, I do not make a habit of doing the Shirlington Shuffle on my customers, if it is an UberX day. If the customer brings it on himself (such as keeping me waiting, then telling me after four minutes that he is at Building X instead of Building Y, where he dropped the stick), I have no qualms about that one. The customer BOUGHT that Shuffle. You waste my time, you pay for my time.

I do not, however, do the Shirlington Shuffle at Wally World or Safeway. I go, look for the customer, and, if I can find him, haul him. I will even help him put his purchases into the trunk. If nothing else, it gets me moving more quickly. The TNCs pay better when you are moving than sitting (and yes, I do start the trip as soon as I have determined that the lady with three children and a cart full of bags is the customer).

I suspect that the TNCs will address this by singling out drivers who do have an excessive number of "cancel rider no-show" and sending them e-Mails threatening de-activation. In fact, the might de-activate them without warning. As it is, legitimate cancellations already count against you.



1974toyota said:


> Google " The Curly Shuffle " Youtube......jmo


I actually posted that video to a topic on the Shirlington Shuffle on the Washington Boards.


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## Pawtism (Aug 22, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> I suspect that neither has eliminated the policy, because it would result in too many stranded customers or too many customers who had to request a ride more than once or twice. If there is no cancellation fee, more than a few drivers will "cancel rider no-show" if the customer is not toes-to-the-kerb. The overwhelming majority will give it no more than two minutes. I would expect that both Uber and Lyft are aware that most of their customers not only are not toes to the kerb, but, take more than two minutes to emerge from the address. One of the TNCs' major selling points is convenience. If a customer must order a ride more than once, it obliterates the convenience factor. That will send more people to the kerb to hail a cab than already do, at least in this market, it will.


As a driver that considers themselves very honorable about it and who only shuffles "legitimately" (none of that driving away from them stuff), I will confirm that if there was no cancellation fee, and for some reason I kept driving (I doubt I would), I would not give even 2 minutes. If I pull up and you aren't standing there (or if it's like raining or something I might give you like 30 seconds to emerge from under a cover or just inside a building or something), I'm gone. I only wait because of the cancellation fee if you don't get out in 5 minutes (that's my assurance that my patience will be rewarded either with a ride or with a fee).



Another Uber Driver said:


> If the customer brings it on himself (such as keeping me waiting, then telling me after four minutes that he is at Building X instead of Building Y, where he dropped the stick), I have no qualms about that one. The customer BOUGHT that Shuffle. You waste my time, you pay for my time.


This is me. Maybe it's because I'm only a part time driver (when I do drive), so I'm not as worried about "max profits", it's all just extra cash anyway, as long as I come out ahead life is good (I don't need to match my full time job pay or anything). I find the whole going the wrong way to get them to cancel and hiding and hoping they can't find you and what not distasteful (and dishonorable). It's not even because it's dishonest to Uber. Screw them, I have no qualms with getting them anyway I can, they certainly do it to the drivers. They're as much a bad actor as those who try to get around surge with the wrong address (I'll shuffle them all day long).

It's the customers that are, as you said, "collateral damage", that bothers me. Why should some poor guy who just wants a ride to work have to pay, sometimes multiple fees, because people want to screw with him. He's toes to curb and has been for 15 minutes while people are going the wrong way and such. That's my problem with it, it punishes those who are actually doing things right.

Those who choose to do it, well that's their business, but I refuse to. However, as you said, "you waste my time, you pay for my time." I will happily punish those who are doing the wrong thing for their bad behavior (hopefully they eventually learn and start doing the right thing).

Anyway, that's a good explanation of it anyhow, so thank you for that.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Pawtism said:


> The illegit version of it is, but the legit version isn't cheating them. If they aren't coming out within the 5 minutes, didn't properly prepare (no car seat, underage pax, trying to cheat surge by putting in wrong address, etc), then they are cheating us by having us drive all the way out to them for no legit ride. The fee it completely valid in that situation. Some people aren't willing to sit and wait the 5 minutes to get their fee (which I think is a failure on their part, but also their choice to make).


Of course, that's a given. Not talking about the legit side of it. If it's surging all around me, I'm not waiting 5 minutes, the surge might be over in 5 minutes.



Another Uber Driver said:


> (emphasis added)
> 
> If you stop Sentence Number One at the end of the emphasised part, the answer is "yes". I would call it more "gaming" Uber than "cheating" the
> customers, although the customer becomes "collateral damage" in this case. As long as Uber and Lyft are going to make it hard to profit from this venture, you have to game the system to extract the maximum profit. This is one reason why I am not against showing the destinations. Given the 1979 cab rates that Uber and Lyft pay, I need to be able to decline unprofitable trips. If Uber and Lyft were to pay even 2003 cab rates, I might be against showing destinations.


If Uber cancels the cancelation fee due to this type of activity, you will have cheated other drivers, tha you are doing it, puts legitimate fees at risk. You shouldn't do it for that reason alone. Uber won't agree with you. I don't like the fact that I'm being exploited, but if I agree to work for Uber, I am going to play by the rules, it doen't give me the right to cheat customers or other drivers because I feel exploited about my pay.



> When I was an official of a cab company, it was rare that we gave out destinations. In fact, local regulation specifically forbade it, although we would do it, sometimes, after the driver had acknowledged the job, for purposes of identification. If you did drive a radio cab, how many times did you get the wrong "George". I know that I did, more than once. In fact, more than once, I picked up the wrong "George going to National Airport".


If uber were run by taxi professionals, it begs the question, would Uber improve, or would it descend into taxi hell?

Taxi corporations have done some crap I think destroyed the image of the business, they ahve a PR problem, and it's self - inflicted.
That being said, they do stuff that I think is much better than how uber operates.

they don't stack calls. Stacking calls is a bad idea. Okay, at a given moment, there might not be an available car, but often the call will go to the Uber as stacked, so it takes the driver another 8 minutes to arrive, and another Uber clears closer to the rider just after the call was stacked. The result is poorer service. That is why Taxi companies don't allow drivers to stack calls ( and why they don't do it, either ).



> There is something inherently wrong with a transportation system where it is more profitable not to haul a passenger than it is to haul one (Uber and Lyft's insistence that they are "technology, not transportation", companies be damned). To be sure, as one of our interlocutors indicates (and it makes sense to me, even given my ignorance on his market), there are times and places where the Shirlington Shuffle is not profitable or, less profitable.


No taxi company I know of, or have ever worked for, and that is many, ever charged a rider for a cancellation, or even a no show, the driver's always ate those. I didnt like it, but that's how they operate.



> I expect that Uber and Lyft already are wise to it. In fact, one form of the Shirlington Shuffle is not to go to the job and get the customer to cancel after five minutes. Another form is to head the wrong way and get the customer to cancel after five minutes, or more. This still renders the cancellation fee to the driver. Lyft sends a nastygram to the driver that informs him that he is collecting too many cancellations for "not making progress toward the rider", or words similar. Uber offers the user a choice under reasons for cancellation "My driver was driving away from my address", or words similar. There are times when Uber and Lyft will deny the driver his cancellation over the above situations. The driver can protest that he was driving in that direction to get around a hazard and that he actually intended to cover the job. Uber and Lyft will render the cancellation to the driver and eat it, but, either will get wise if a given driver does that TOO frequently. This would apply even in the Capital of Your Nation, where streets closed for demonstrations and motorcades for self-important jackdonkeys who seem to think that this is a Byzantine Monarchy instead of a Republic, are everyday occurrences.
> 
> I suspect that neither has eliminated the policy, because it would result in too many stranded customers or too many customers who had to request a ride more than once or twice. If there is no cancellation fee, more than a few drivers will "cancel rider no-show" if the customer is not toes-to-the-kerb.


here's what I think should be: No cancellation fee, but driver has the right to cancel is rider is not toes to the curb, as you put it.
Taxis don't operate that way, but they charge twice as much. Because Uber is half as much, customers need to be READY when we arrive, or we cancel and move to the next call.



> The overwhelming majority will give it no more than two minutes. I would expect that both Uber and Lyft are aware that most of their customers not only are not toes to the kerb, but, take more than two minutes to emerge from the address. One of the TNCs' major selling points is convenience. If a customer must order a ride more than once, it obliterates the convenience factor. That will send more people to the kerb to hail a cab than already do, at least in this market, it will.


You know what I really hate? I am waiting, and the rider appears at 4:55 minutes/seconds he's opening my car door. It's like they know they can wait five minutes, and do it intentionally before i get the cancel fee. That is what really pisses me off.
So, at 4:45, I'm okay with moving so they can't see me and collecting the 5 bucks, or whatever it is, that would help stop riders from doing this. That I'm okay with.



> Indeed, "integrity" is in "short supply", but, it does not surprise me for more than one reason. The first is obvious: you are dealing with companies that are almost totally devoid of the slightest shred of "integrity"; why should the contractor be any different? As long as they are going to manipulate, game. hustle and cheat you, you must do the same to get something that might approach "what is yours".


Two wrongs don't make a right, but your idea does have a biblical basis, "do unto others............then split" ( okay, I"m kidding ).



> The other thing is that this business is fiercely competitive and it is capitalistic. "Integrity" is often an altruistic trait. Jack London stated : "competitive capitalism and altruism are mutually destructive entities; they can not co-exist".


I disagree. "Altruism" are acts beyond the call of duty brought about by the selfless concern for others. Integrity should be the default state of being. One can have integrity and not engage in altruistic acts. They are distinctly different things" Altruism means to do good things for people, beyond the call of duty, integrity is a state of being. One can sit and meditate and have 100% integrity. But sitting and meditating, even if your level of integrity is absolute, is not an altruistic act.

In other words, someone who is performing altruistic acts has integrity, but someone who has integrity isn't necessarily engaging in altruism. See the difference?



> He wrote that in 1901. That is not an inaccurate observation, even to-day, more than one-hundred years later. This is a kill-or-be-killed, proverbial dog-eat-dog business. I tried, for years, to do this honestly and forthrightly. I only got burned. To be sure, I still do this as honestly as I possibly can. I do not cheat customers deliberately. In fact, some of the popular forms of cheating the customer (taking a scenic route) do not pay. Despite all of the above, I do not make a habit of doing the Shirlington Shuffle on my customers, if it is an UberX day. If the customer brings it on himself (such as keeping me waiting, then telling me after four minutes that he is at Building X instead of Building Y, where he dropped the stick), I have no qualms about that one. The customer BOUGHT that Shuffle. You waste my time, you pay for my time.


An occasional misdemeanor or white lie, or taking 3 cookies from the cookie jar when your mommy said two, I'm not going to complain. But apparently, there are those who do this shuffle thing in wholesale quantity, that I got a problem with.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> If Uber cancels the cancelation fee due to this type of activity, you will have cheated other drivers, tha you are doing it, puts legitimate fees at risk. I'm being exploited, but if I agree to work for Uber, I am going to play by the rules, it doen't give me the right to cheat customers or other drivers because I feel exploited about my pay.
> 
> If uber were run by taxi professionals, it begs the question, would Uber improve, or would it descend into taxi hell?
> 
> ...


If we pass over the use of the conditional and future perfect (of probability---and it is YOUR side that is quick to holler *STRAW MAN!!*), you must understand that this _*ain't necessar'ly 'bout no right or no wrong*_, it is about turning a profit, and, turning one under adverse conditions, at that. If Uber does not have to play by any rules, why should I? ...........or, as Churchill put it, "Why should he get to act as the scoundrel, with all of its advantages, while I must play the part of the gentleman, with all its disadvantages?" (or words similar). Uber is setting the fine example here. All that the Shufflers are doing is following it. I do not do what they do; I do not need to, but, I do understand from where they are coming. This is kill-or-be-killed. It is about survival, not right and wrong. If we are going to worry about that, it is Uber and Lyft that need to clean up their act, first.

It would depend on what taxi professionals and what they wanted to accomplish. For many of us taxi professionals, it was "drivers first", which was
Hail-O's motto, even. For Uber, it is "me first" but "customers after that and drivers behind last." There were some taxi professionals who put customers first. We would have to agree on what we wanted to do. By the time that happened, self-driving cars might be proliferate.

Actually, we did stack calls here; have done so for some time. It was called "bidding en route". If a section had gone to third call (or second, for companies that did not consider a stand first call or for those that did not have a stand in every section of the jurisdiction that they served), a driver could bid en route. An empty cab usually had place over one en route, but, in some cases where the passenger was likely to disappear, the dispatcher did have the discretion to assign the job to the cab that would get there first. We also had a status called "route or willing", when the boards were just swamped. What that meant was "just open your mouth. If you are en route, where are you and where are you going? If empty, where are you?" Once the computers came, we were still on voice and manual, for a while. At that point, you could stack calls on a driver. There was a notification function that alerted the driver to expect a new job on his screen when he dropped. Once he cleared his meter, the new job appeared and he covered it.

Another thing that we used to do here is give a driver a local then back him up with a decent time call. This went double if we had to run the driver. Of course, the sharpshooters used to caterwaul about that one. Here you are beating to death a local and hearing dead air. Some driver pops up somewhere, and, he is reliable to the point that you know that he will go and get the thing, so you hit him with the local and tell him to call when he drops. He covers the local, calls you, so you hit him with the time call. At that point, the sharpshooter pops up in section (or sticks his hood there) and starts to tell you that you must call the section for bids. You ask him where has he been all this time, but, he tells you that is irrelevant. Of course, that is the guy who always wondered why he got so many garbage jobs. It was even easier to punish drivers like that in the Zone Days. We used to call it "ping-ponging". You hit him with a long two zones. The next time that he opened his mouth (usually when he dropped), you hit him with another long two zones. After that, hit him with a long one zone. Too bad that we got meters in 2008. I will always curse Fenty for that one.

............and you never had customers like that when you drove a radio cab? We had more than a few. Dispatchers, operators and the hip drivers knew who they were. We quickly learned when a new customer was that way.

Again, this is capitalism in its most base form. It is not about right, wrong or thinking about other drivers or customers. It is about turning a profit. Profits first; people when it suits me or when it pays.

If you disagree, you missed the point. Re-read the post.

Re-read the post, I stated "often". Integrity has no place in competitive capitalism. Making a profit is the only thing or, at least, the first thing. All other considerations are secondary and merit consideration only if they pay. If it does not pay, it is not worth any consideration.

Holding a customer to what he ordered is not a "misdemeanor". He told me to come there, I am there, he can pay the consequences of that. If it pays me to go and get him (as it would on Uber Taxi), I will go and get him. If it pays me to let one more minute expire, (which it does on UberX), that one minute expires. I have complied with the letter of the policy, which is all that is required.

There are some who do the Shirlington Shuffle only on occasion, there are some who make a habit of it. I do not find it necessary to do it frequently. In fact, usually I will go to Building X from Y if I think that I can get there in two, or so, minutes. That is more force of habit than anything, though.

I am understanding that I must break some old cab habits to turn a profit at TNC work. Sadly, it is the good habits that I must break. The blame for that rests squarely on the TNCs and their mistreatment of their drivers. The public, sadly, is who suffers more, despite its being collateral damage. Uber and Lyft really do not care either about the public or their drivers. It is called capitalism.


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## SaintCl89 (May 21, 2017)

I shuffle train pax who order rides while they are on the train 2 towns away and expect me to wait passed the 5 min markbwith the ole 4:45 phone call. Please wait for me. Of course I’ll wAit, shuffle


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> If we pass over the use of the conditional and future perfect (of probability---and it is YOUR side that is quick to holler *STRAW MAN!!*), you must understand that this _*ain't necessar'ly 'bout no right or no wrong*_, it is about turning a profit, and, turning one under adverse conditions, at that. If Uber does not have to play by any rules, why should I? ...........or, as Churchill put it, "Why should he get to act as the scoundrel, with all of its advantages, while I must play the part of the gentleman, with all its disadvantages?" (or words similar). Uber is setting the fine example here. All that the Shufflers are doing is following it. I do not do what they do; I do not need to, but, I do understand from where they are coming. This is kill-or-be-killed. It is about survival, not right and wrong. If we are going to worry about that, it is Uber and Lyft that need to clean up their act, first.
> 
> It would depend on what taxi professionals and what they wanted to accomplish. For many of us taxi professionals, it was "drivers first", which was
> Hail-O's motto, even. For Uber, it is "me first" but "customers after that and drivers behind last." There were some taxi professionals who put customers first. We would have to agree on what we wanted to do. By the time that happened, self-driving cars might be proliferate.
> ...


I worked for several taxi companies in SoCal, and stacking was not allowed though drivers did it anyway. When San Diego Yellow switched to computer dispatch, it was no longer possible for a driver to stack a call. Interesting though, about how you taxi company operated.



> Another thing that we used to do here is give a driver a local then back him up with a decent time call. This went double if we had to run the driver. Of course, the sharpshooters used to caterwaul about that one. Here you are beating to death a local and hearing dead air. Some driver pops up somewhere, and, he is reliable to the point that you know that he will go and get the thing, so you hit him with the local and tell him to call when he drops. He covers the local, calls you, so you hit him with the time call. At that point, the sharpshooter pops up in section (or sticks his hood there) and starts to tell you that you must call the section for bids. You ask him where has he been all this time, but, he tells you that is irrelevant. Of course, that is the guy who always wondered why he got so many garbage jobs. It was even easier to punish drivers like that in the Zone Days. We used to call it "ping-ponging". You hit him with a long two zones. The next time that he opened his mouth (usually when he dropped), you hit him with another long two zones. After that, hit him with a long one zone. Too bad that we got meters in 2008. I will always curse Fenty for that one.


I never worked with a company that had a zone system. I started cabbing in 1977, and every company I've ever worked for had meters.



> ............and you never had customers like that when you drove a radio cab? We had more than a few. Dispatchers, operators and the hip drivers knew who they were. We quickly learned when a new customer was that way.
> 
> Again, this is capitalism in its most base form. It is not about right, wrong or thinking about other drivers or customers. It is about turning a profit. Profits first; people when it suits me or when it pays.
> 
> ...


Integrity --- Maybe not, but some of us value it for reasons beyond the scope of profit. Either you have it, value it, or you don't. It's a personal thing, and for me, money is nice, but it's not everything.



> Holding a customer to what he ordered is not a "misdemeanor". He told me to come there, I am there, he can pay the consequences of that. If it pays me to go and get him (as it would on Uber Taxi), I will go and get him. If it pays me to let one more minute expire, (which it does on UberX), that one minute expires. I have complied with the letter of the policy, which is all that is required.


You sign an agreement to operate a certain way, then you are obligated to work that way. Uber allows me to take off in 2 minutes on pool rides or 5 minutes on X rides, I wont cheat the customer because I agreed to those rules, and if I don't want to wait, I'll forgo the cancellation fee.



> There are some who do the Shirlington Shuffle only on occasion, there are some who make a habit of it. I do not find it necessary to do it frequently. In fact, usually I will go to Building X from Y if I think that I can get there in two, or so, minutes. That is more force of habit than anything, though.
> 
> I am understanding that I must break some old cab habits to turn a profit at TNC work. Sadly, it is the good habits that I must break. The blame for that rests squarely on the TNCs and their mistreatment of their drivers. The public, sadly, is who suffers more, despite its being collateral damage. Uber and Lyft really do not care either about the public or their drivers. It is called capitalism.


This is not a very profitable business, so, because of that fact, arguing about "profit" is rather silly. TNCs and taxi companies in my neck of the woods, both are mistreating drivers, and the best thing a driver can do is look for work outside of this industry.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

Oscar Levant said:


> Interesting though, about how you taxi company operated.
> 
> I never worked with a company that had a zone system. I started cabbing in 1977, and every company I've ever worked for had meters.
> 
> ...


Almost all of the cab companies in this area operated that way for as long as they did voice dispatch and even into the early days or the computer/satellite/digital/GPS.

The cabs in the Capital of Your Nation (not the suburbs, mind you) had Zones from 1931-2008 until Dear Revered Leader Kim il-Fenty ordered meters put into the cabs. He also did a number of other things that harmed the cab drivers, such as ordering the meters set to 1989 rates (I wonder if this is where Uber got its example, except that it scaled back the rates another ten years). His Exalted Supremacy, Adri-Amin *Felon*ty lasted only one term. No less a publication than the _*Wall Street Journal*_ blamed his defeat on the cab drivers.

Most of the larger jurisdictions that had a Zone System had scrapped it by the early 1960s. As Congress had imposed ours, it persisted longer. In fact, until about 2004, or so, there was a rider attached to the D.C. Appropriations Bill that specficially prohibited the installation of meters in D.C taxicabs. For years, the next largest city that had a Zone System was Lynn, Massachusetts. What is funny is that Lynn is in Essex County, Massachusetts, from which I come, originally. I did live there, briefly. Lynn dumped its Zone System in the mid-1990s.

I can not eat integrity or pay my rent with it---the same goes for badges and stars.

The agreement be damned, as long as the TNCs play dirty, so will I. Churchill had a point.

The only problem solved by walking away from it is drug and alcohol addiction.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Heavy bar area in downtown indianapoli will net you at least $30 in cancel fees on lyft alone on a Saturday night.....


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## Transporter_011 (Feb 3, 2018)

Oscar Levant said:


> The shuffle then, in essence, is gaming the system to cheat people, right?
> 
> To those that do this:
> 
> ...


Uber is the one who started the race to the bottom. If anyone is greedy it would be them and the pax are not very far behind them in this regard. The drivers are the one's caught in the middle of the shit storm and you can't expect them to behave rationally when they're being treated irrationally on a daily basis.

Integrity is nice and we should all strive to be better people and all, man. But integrity doesn't make your mortgage payment, or put groceries in the fridge for you. Only money does that. You can call it greed but for many of us we simply refer to it as survival.


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

Transporter_011 said:


> Integrity is nice and we should all strive to be better people and all, man. But integrity doesn't make your mortgage payment, or put groceries in the fridge for you. Only money does that. You can call it greed but for many of us we simply refer to it as survival.


Maybe not, but integrity will help keep you out of trouble, which if you do get into trouble for lack of integrity, you could wind up having trouble making your mortage payment.


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## Chris Verdi (Nov 7, 2017)

Oscar Levant said:


> The shuffle then, in essence, is gaming the system to cheat people, right?
> 
> To those that do this:
> 
> ...


Lol in your wet dreams. No fee no drivers


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## nickd8775 (Jul 12, 2015)

I only do that for Pool rides at grocery stores. If someone has a lot of groceries and they signal me because they think I'm their driver, I drive by. Park in the lot and wait the 2 minutes. 
If it's X I drive by and cancel no charge. 
I made the mistake of picking someone up with a full cart of groceries without surge exactly once.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

I guess if I used "cancel - rider no show" for a too many riders, belligerent rider(s), no car seat, minor, etc. I would message Support immediately and tell them why I canceled. That way it couldn't come back to haunt me when the account holder tells support "I showed up but the driver wouldn't take me" (which Uber can in fact verify based on GPS history of both parties).

I wish they had more options than "cancel - rider no show" that paid the fee. Can anyone here list them? I see the screen so infrequently that I can't remember than all, but I think only "cancel - rider no show" pays the fee.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

UberBeamer said:


> Shoot, I've been paid the fee even when I chose "Do not charge rider". It seems to be more based on time rather than the actual reason you chose.
> 
> Anyways, here's a screenshot of all the reasons.


So do we get paid for every one of those (after 5 minutes) except for Do Not Charge Rider? If so, I'm canceling more often!


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## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Another Uber Driver said:


> This would apply even in the Capital of Your Nation, where streets closed for demonstrations and motorcades for self-important jackdonkeys who seem to think that this is a Byzantine Monarchy instead of a Republic, are everyday occurrences.


This made me giggle.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

SuzeCB said:


> This made me giggle.


This _*is*_ a Republic, not a Byzantine Monarchy. I do not care who he is, what he is, who he thinks that he is or what anyone else thinks that he is. He can wait his turn, the same that everyone else must.


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## Chris Verdi (Nov 7, 2017)

UberBeamer said:


> Shoot, I've been paid the fee even when I chose "Do not charge rider". It seems to be more based on time rather than the actual reason you chose.
> 
> Anyways, here's a screenshot of all the reasons.


Correct. I canceled and hit no charge but got fee.

I had to contact support to correct this.

There was a reason for it.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

UberBeamer said:


> I wouldn't call it a shuffle if you're waiting out the timer and the pax hasn't shown up. That's just a simple no show. They were too late and you're moving on.
> 
> The "Shirlington Shuffle" is about actively hiding from the pax which entails a bit deception. So I see why some people would find that upsetting. It's certainly wrong. I probably wouldn't have the balls to pull it off myself.
> 
> ...


Cancelling for a reason is not a shuffle, it's a cancel.

Claiming the passenger wasn't there when they were, is lying.

Lying is an honor violation. If someone is going to sell their honor for $3.75 it must not have been worth even that. Not very ambitious either being there are scams that pay better.


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## socallaoc (Dec 23, 2017)

Another Uber Driver said:


> This would apply even in the Capital of Your Nation, where streets closed for demonstrations and motorcades for self-important jackdonkeys who seem to think that this is a Byzantine Monarchy instead of a Republic, are everyday occurrences.


This. Brilliant.


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

What's the point of shuffling unless it's like 4 and a half minutes and you are tired of waiting and you are in a busy are with other rides waiting. 

You don't know where they are going anyway.


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## HotUberMess (Feb 25, 2018)

Lee239 said:


> What's the point of shuffling unless it's like 4 and a half minutes and you are tired of waiting and you are in a busy are with other rides waiting.
> 
> You don't know where they are going anyway.


A lot of the "shuffle" posters stopped posting. Not sure if they got deactivated or just stopped logging in but once you post screenshots of your earnings, maps, etc, Uber and Lyft can narrow down who you are. I'm fairly certain some of those guys have been "shuffled".


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

Yeah I'm sure if they see too many cancellations with the pax paying cancel fees that's not good for the driver.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

HotUberMess said:


> I'm fairly certain some of those guys have been "shuffled".


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Shuffling a rich person is not the same as shuffling a poor person, but they don't shuffle anybody who has a million dollar house, they will wait 1 hour for the d bag millionaire to come outside .

Majority of the riders don't have money to afford a car, so cheating them is really bad.
Funny part is that shufflers get short changed by 1 dollar, they will be at the hub protesting.
If you are shuffling a poor person, think what else they are doing in life that is illegal.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

HotUberMess said:


> A lot of the "shuffle" posters stopped posting. Not sure if they got deactivated or just stopped logging in but once you post screenshots of your earnings, maps, etc, Uber and Lyft can narrow down who you are. I'm fairly certain some of those guys have been "shuffled".


How ironic.


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## Coachman (Sep 22, 2015)

If I get to the point that the only way I think I can make a buck is by stealing from the customers I think I'll look for other work.


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## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Coachman said:


> If I get to the point that the only way I think I can make a buck is by stealing from the customers I think I'll look for other work.


Tell that to Bernie Madoff.


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## hulksmash (Apr 26, 2016)

Last night I decided to pickup a pax from a mansion up a windy road in an area with few drivers. I drive up to the house which is on my left, at which they tell me to drive further up so I can turn around and face downhill with the house on my right. Then they tell me they changed their mind and if I could cancel since they “had trouble on their end”. Sure I cancelled, but not before driving further down and waiting for the timer. These type of pax who waste my time and then try to weasel out of the fee definitely are getting shuffled


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## OtherUbersdo (May 17, 2018)

hulksmash said:


> Last night I decided to pickup a pax from a mansion up a windy road in an area with few drivers. I drive up to the house which is on my left, at which they tell me to drive further up so I can turn around and face downhill with the house on my right. Then they tell me they changed their mind and if I could cancel since they "had trouble on their end". Sure I cancelled, but not before driving further down and waiting for the timer. These type of pax who waste my time and then try to weasel out of the fee definitely are getting shuffled


 If I am asked to cancel I always tell them they have to do it . That way , if I have made enough progress towards the pick up , I get paid without having to drive there and wait . Also this should not impact your cancel rate .


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

If you shuffle college students who have next to nothing and are just trying to make a better life for themselves anyway, you should also consider going to the dark web and buying a list of a hundred thousand or so email addresses. Send out an email blast reporting to be the bank (or Uber support), telling "dear Customer" that someone has hacked their account and that you need them to "Verify" their credit card number at the following link. Less work, more lucrative, morally equivalent.
What's the difference? There is none.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

Caturria said:


> If you shuffle college students who have next to nothing and are just trying to make a better life for themselves anyway, you should also consider going to the dark web and buying a list of a hundred thousand or so email addresses. Send out an email blast reporting to be the bank (or Uber support), telling "dear Customer" that someone has hacked their account and that you need them to "Verify" their credit card number at the following link. Less work, more lucrative, morally equivalent.
> What's the difference? There is none.


How long have you been driving / how many trips have you done? We're not talking about shuffling legitate trip requests here (at least I'm not); it's people who abuse the service who can and should be shuffled.



OtherUbersdo said:


> If I am asked to cancel I always tell them they have to do it . That way , if I have made enough progress towards the pick up , I get paid without having to drive there and wait . Also this should not impact your cancel rate .


Careful! Apparently Uber tracks your rider side cancels too. Apparently if too many of your riders cancel that's grounds to DA you, or at least be suspicious.


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## Caturria (Jun 14, 2018)

MadTownUberD said:


> How long have you been driving / how many trips have you done? We're not talking about shuffling legitate trip requests here (at least I'm not); it's people who abuse the service who can and should be shuffled.


I'm only talking about the kind where you hide and make the passenger go seek.


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Still going strong


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