# Slightly concerned for our Uber driver economy once July 31st rolls around...



## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

I often write really long posts, so I'll keep this one relatively short...

While I am still driving, I admit to a modicum of worry once the July 31st day comes. That is when in the U.S. the $600 Federal assistance is officially stopped. And therein lies the problem. There is a lot of talk about extending it. The issue is that if Congress votes to stop the $600/week, then consumption will drop, and precipitously. I found this to be correlated because when they _started_ the $600/week, I saw a jump in ride requests, here in Chicago, IL USA. I also witnessed a dramatic increase in UberEats, at least in my personal experience.

Now, if they DO extend it, then I posit that many employers (with greater reduced demand from consumers), may not be able to hire anyone because they cannot pay the required wage to influence workers to come back. This could result in businesses going under... And thus there will be impacts on our driver earnings.

The fear I have is that the U.S. Federal government may have painted themselves into a corner. Either option could have concomitant negative effects. I do not question that it was the right thing to do politically and on a humanitarian basis, because I recall that many people were telling me (and still do) that they were really suffering before the $600/week add on.

The stock market seems to be already pricing in a "V" shaped recovery. The SPY which I follow (The S&P 500 exchange traded fund), closed at 303.53 today, and we are within sight of new all time highs. I am just expressing concern about the upcoming day on July 31st. I hope thoughtful consideration is made. I am very very happy so many people are getting it, because I hear from passengers how much they needed it... but when if/when it is taken away, we could have a measurable decrease in ride requests/food deliveries, and another big drop in world equities.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

I know people want the government aid extended but if states start to open, then people should return to work and take precautions. 

The shutdown has already caused businesses to permanently close their doors and the jobs lost will be permanent. Imagine how many more businesses will close and how many more jobs will be permanently lost if the shutdown continues.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

ColdRider said:


> I know people want the government aid extended but if states start to open, then people should return to work and take precautions.
> 
> The shutdown has already caused businesses to permanently close their doors and the jobs lost will be permanent. Imagine how many more businesses will close and how many more jobs will be permanently lost if the shutdown continues.


Agreed with needing to be very cautious... The U.S. government has long past the point where more borrowing can lead to a "GDP multiplier" effect. Many economic studies have shown that once a government's debt exceeds 90% of GDP, it leads to prolonged depressed GDP growth for many years.

This is because debt can be generally divided into 2 categories, productive and unproductive. Productive debt is debt incurred which can repay principal and interest. Unproductive debt is usually consumptive debt and is needed for everyday living expenses. Also, debt can be considered "future consumption brought forward to the present day".

The trillions needed to continue to pay federal government debts past July 31st could be a severe drag on economic growth. This is because the federal government will be forced to extract more currency from the economy to service it. This leads to less Gross Domestic Savings, which then leads to less investment, investing, and a decline in productivity growth.

However, there is an argument that struggling Americans may demand an extension, especially if they don't have savings or a job lined up. Very tough predicament.


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## SOLA-RAH (Dec 31, 2014)

Young Kim said:


> I often write really long posts, so I'll keep this one relatively short...
> 
> While I am still driving, I admit to a modicum of worry once the July 31st day comes. That is when in the U.S. the $600 Federal assistance is officially stopped. And therein lies the problem. There is a lot of talk about extending it. The issue is that if Congress votes to stop the $600/week, then consumption will drop, and precipitously. I found this to be correlated because when they _started_ the $600/week, I saw a jump in ride requests, here in Chicago, IL USA. I also witnessed a dramatic increase in UberEats, at least in my personal experience.
> 
> ...


_"I am very very happy so many people are getting it, because I hear from passengers how much they needed it... but when if/when it is taken away, we could have a measurable decrease in ride requests/food deliveries..."_
This statement is exactly why the $600 is guaranteed to end July 31st. When you have no job and are having to rely on the U.S. taxpayer for spending money, taking an uber is a luxury not a necessity. The average person is gonna treat PUA & unemployment the exact same way they treated their paycheck...by blowing it on trivialities as fast as possible. Instead of making every dollar count to weather these hard times, they'll spend free money even faster. The government "supporting" the people is about the best injection a troubled economy can get.

Uber will boom from July 3rd-July 31st because uber drivers still (or should) be sitting at home. Why work hard when you can get $800+/week for doing nothing? And I can't blame them because they'll be penalized for driving and earning more than a few hundred bucks a week.
On July 31st the music stops, and the free money ends. And all these unemployed folks go from treading water to flat broke. And I just don't see them flooding in to become uber drivers.
Meanwhile the general (employed) public is gonna be over all of this nonsense by then and the demand will be there. The stock market has almost fully recovered and heavy demand is pent up among people who are still working and getting paid. While at the bottom, ~30million people will be competing for the ~20million jobs that eventually come back. What happens after that is anyone's guess.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

...well for those on regular UI, that goes much longer, so wouldn't worry the sky is falling. The $600 was never meant to be a permanent thing and all knew it expired. I suspect at the last minute it will be extended to like 12/31.


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## IthurstwhenIP (Jan 12, 2018)

Lots of dumb, just spouting stupid

then you hear smart voices....

logic, reasoning, thinking...

not the average meth head.... tard or boat sider

and you wonder...

how lazy can you be

to sound smart yet,

Uber


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## PopcornEater (Apr 26, 2020)

America is not close to being fully open 🤔
35M+ people unemployed 🤔
We are in the middle of a Pandemic 🤔
And the market is almost fully recovered? 😒
Hum the fear of missing out is stronger than logic...


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

PopcornEater said:


> America is not close to being fully open &#129300;
> 35M+ people unemployed &#129300;
> We are in the middle of a Pandemic &#129300;
> And the market is almost fully recovered? &#128530;
> Hum the fear of missing out is stronger than logic...


35M+ includes a ton of furloughed as well as people who will have jobs once America is opened.

market is "fully recovered" because thanks to the cares act people have extra money in their pockets and they're putting it in the market. $600/week on top of unemployment? STOCK MARKET. $1200/$2400 stimulus check? STOCK MARKET. RMD cancelled? STOCK MARKET.


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## Clint Torres (Sep 10, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> 35M+ includes a ton of furloughed as well as people who will have jobs once America is opened.
> 
> market is "fully recovered" because thanks to the cares act people have extra money in their pockets and they're putting it in the market. $600/week on top of unemployment? STOCK MARKET. $1200/$2400 stimulus check? STOCK MARKET. RMD cancelled? STOCK MARKET.


like @sellkatsell44 what is the opposite of street smart cause that's what I want to sayevery time I read your posts. Mad insightful non useful things


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Clint Torres said:


> like @sellkatsell44 what is the opposite of street smart cause that's what I want to sayevery time I read your posts. Mad insightful non useful things


Hmmmm

I don't know, but is there a point to your post other than to try and sling mud my way?

Tell me all the ways I'm wrong or lack street smart.

tia


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## Clint Torres (Sep 10, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Hmmmm
> 
> I don't know, but is there a point to your post other than to try and sling mud my way?
> 
> ...


no no no

contrary

your words drip with intellect that while lacking purpose sounds delightful.
Meant as compliment


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## PopcornEater (Apr 26, 2020)

sellkatsell44 said:


> 35M+ includes a ton of furloughed as well as people who will have jobs once America is opened.
> 
> market is "fully recovered" because thanks to the cares act people have extra money in their pockets and they're putting it in the market. $600/week on top of unemployment? STOCK MARKET. $1200/$2400 stimulus check? STOCK MARKET. RMD cancelled? STOCK MARKET.


Lol &#128518; there is no way the economy is healthy, whales can pump the market and make it look good though...


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Don’t worry , just go to LA right now and start looting Target. Get whatever you need. :thumbup:


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

*Nearly Half of Americans Aren't Investing*
When asked where they are currently investing or saving their money, over 47% of respondents said they weren't taking advantage of any of the following investments:


Stocks (not including retirement accounts)
Bonds (not including retirement accounts)
Mutual funds (not including retirement accounts)
Exchange-traded funds, aka ETFs (not including retirement accounts)
Cryptocurrency
Real estate
Individual retirement account (including Roth IRAs)
401(k)
Deposit accounts (savings, checking, etc.)

Pretty sure the vast majority of folks getting any type of UI use it to pay rent/mortgage, food, you know recurring monthly bills. sheesh.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

The drivers who are refusing to work or are planning on waiting till the last minute to come back to work, my find themselves in trouble sooner than July 31st. Just because it was approved to pay out till July 31st doesn't mean they have to pay out until then. There are still certain guidelines that we have to qualify under. There are specific guidelines in place regarding the Pua and the other three Federal programs. Those guidelines include who is able to be approved as well as when someone is no longer eligible. Based on the reasons listed, once the social distancing and stay-at-home orders start getting lifted, as they are now, there's going to be a large number of drivers who will no longer qualify. We've already had new stories here talking about it. The title to one story was here soon unemployment is going to have the tough job of deciding who gets to stay on and who loses their benefits. Granted a lot of us don't even have our official approval because they are so backlogged but just becaget booted off now doesn't mean they won't come after that money later. When we certify every week we have to answer the question if we worked. For those who answer no, here pretty soon that's going to translate into refusing to work. Pandemic or not refusing to work isn't considered an acceptable reason to stay on unemployment. In fact I hear they've announced numerous times that refusing to work out of fear of coronavirus is not a valid reason. Somehow they all have it in their heads that they are set with Benefits no matter what until July 31st and that may not be the case.

Also thinking long-term, we were just entering our busy months here when this started. We're going to have our winter slumps for 15 months. We were just about to come out of our worst couple months as drivers here in Denver. Then this hit and it's going to take us right back into the next winter slump. There's going to be no summer pop this year. That's when we put money aside for tires maintenance and Bill's to get us through the winter. So come July 31st a better be able to survive on their weekly benefit or hope to God Uber income is enough to pay all their bills. It might finally hit them but they should have been working as well during this but that's their problem


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## PopcornEater (Apr 26, 2020)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Nah,
> 
> from you it just sounds like a fart.
> 
> ...


&#129300; What you're saying doesn't make sense..
There is too much volatility in the market plus the economy is shit...
30% down, 20% up within 2-3 month..
Is this bitcoin?


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Target?!
> 
> there's no gold @ target.
> 
> I'm not for looting but if you gonna do bad you go big.


I think I saw TV's looted:smiles: They sell 14k gold.
If you want to loot, go to Hollywood &#128516; 
You will not see this happening in SF.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

PopcornEater said:


> &#129300; What you're saying doesn't make sense..
> There is too much volatility in the market plus the economy is shit...
> 30% down, 20% up within 2-3 month..
> Is this bitcoin?


Feds behind the mkt pump, and they need to do that . People's habits change when Dow is at 26 k vs 15k. People go nuts at 15k.:thumbup: 401k, pension funds etc etc . State of California needs a high valuation stock mkt.
Oracle of Omaha is sitting with high cash, but mkt already up from 18k to 25.5k. Ackman sold his Berkshire shares for a quick 20% gain .


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Most people are either holding on or buying in where before they had money in savings.


You are funny. Please go google how many people could pay a $400 emergency bill. Most American's don't invest outside a 401k or like; that is the simple truth. Your 'inside' knowledge has biased you to kinda forget what happens outside that bubble.


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## PopcornEater (Apr 26, 2020)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Did you not notice my ""s?
> 
> i am not saying the market recovered recovered but certainly the numbers are there (hmmm I wonder how if we were to go with what's his names survey of who knows how many sample size) because people are investing or Holding on tight.
> 
> what is it that I'm saying that doesn't make sense?


I'll like to meet a rich person with a stock broker that let his client hold tight while a free fall &#128514;
People had inside info on the market and when to sell...
Of course that info doesn't come to me or you &#128579;


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## NotYetADriver (Oct 28, 2014)

I think we better learn to deal with this in a less economically devastating way...because I have a feeling this won't be the last pandemic coming our way. If we keep shedding private businesses at this rate it can't end well


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## PopcornEater (Apr 26, 2020)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Omg, I know people can't pay, but there are a heck of a lot more people that can or don't care and invest anyways. Where's your sample from again? The 47%? And how to you explain the market movement?


Market movers don't wait for a 1,200 dollar check from the government &#128556;


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> a heck of a lot more people that can or don't care and invest anyways


prove that! Once you search for what percent of American's can pay an emergency expense of $400. You can also search how many American's have no savings to speak of. You are biased to reality, it really is that simple.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

SHalester said:


> You are funny. Please go google how many people could pay a $400 emergency bill. Most American's don't invest outside a 401k or like; that is the simple truth. Your 'inside' knowledge has biased you to kinda forget what happens outside that bubble.


Omg, I know people can't pay, but there are a heck of a lot more people that can or don't care and invest anyways. Where's your sample from again? The 47%? And how to you explain the market movement?


mbd said:


> Feds behind the mkt pump.


Feds behind the treasuries which may cause people to go into the market vs staying fully in treasuries that are near zero or even negative.


PopcornEater said:


> Market movers don't wait for a 1,200 dollar check from the government &#128556;


youll be surprised, not all but a good amount I would bet but I also think you're using the term wrong










SHalester said:


> prove that! Once you search for what percent of American's can pay an emergency expense of $400. You can also search how many American's have no savings to speak of. You are biased to reality, it really is that simple.


psh, thanks, I ask for your stats and you say I need to prove what... that people would rather invest then save? It's like people who have money and instead of saving they use it and accumulate cc debt. The difference is one is potential and the other is just junk of instant gradification.


PopcornEater said:


> I'll like to meet a rich person with a stock broker that let his client hold tight while a free fall &#128514;


The idea is you understand the market, risks and also read my bold PS. People are forgetful. The worst you can do is sell out when things drop, because it will eventually be recovered. The best is if you're sitting on a fat pile of money like that chick, and buy in when it's low, and then have the balls to walk away when it's high, and sell, and be confident with that sell.



PopcornEater said:


> &#129300; What you're saying doesn't make sense..
> There is too much volatility in the market plus the economy is shit...
> 30% down, 20% up within 2-3 month..
> Is this bitcoin?


Did you not notice my ""s?

i am not saying the market recovered recovered but certainly the numbers are there (hmmm I wonder how if we were to go with what's his names survey of who knows how many sample size) because people are investing or Holding on tight.

what is it that I'm saying that doesn't make sense?

_*Ps, 2008 happened. 2009 stimulus went out. 2019, the stock market analysts were not surprised we were heading towards a market correction as we've been on a bull run for the past decade*_.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

PopcornEater said:


> Market movers don't wait for a 1,200 dollar check from the government


market movers don't get the $1,200 to begin with.


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## PopcornEater (Apr 26, 2020)

SHalester said:


> market movers don't get the $1,200 to begin with.


That's obvious.. &#128579;


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> I ask for your stats and you say I need to prove what.


I didn't realize I was talking about myself here. I asked YOU to adjust your reality with facts, and so far you have refused. Not all of us have portfolios. Few of us have unrestricted investments. Bunch of people with full time jobs have restricted investments and good for them. But for you to think many people have investments is just plain silly. Those fantasy folks also would NOT get any stimulus money either as there were AGI limits; heck we barely skated in from the max and only because a pretty big percent of my investments are tax free.
No, you are completely lacking in knowing how it is for most American' families. You should do a lot more research as you are clearly confused. Or you are far younger than you post you are. Inexperience would explain a lot.


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## PopcornEater (Apr 26, 2020)

Look, buy into the hype 🙃
Just know that this market is artificial and the rug will be janked from underneath.. I’m sure eventually it will reach these levels again 🤔
We can’t just print money and toss it into the market 😁


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## Clint Torres (Sep 10, 2019)

For every buyer a seller. Bunch of Robinhood types in this thread


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

SHalester said:


> I didn't realize I was talking about myself here. I asked YOU to adjust your reality with facts, and so far you have refused. Not all of us have portfolios. Few of us have unrestricted investments. Bunch of people with full time jobs have restricted investments and good for them. But for you to think many people have investments is just plain silly. Those fantasy folks also would NOT get any stimulus money either as there were AGI limits; heck we barely skated in from the max and only because a pretty big percent of my investments are tax free.
> No, you are completely lacking in knowing how it is for most American' families. You should do a lot more research as you are clearly confused. Or you are far younger than you post you are. Inexperience would explain a lot.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/12/you...nerational-buying-moment-instead-of-risk.htmlNo, you are confused and old and apparently I hit a spot with you.

Older folks might sit tight on what they have or don't have, but, there are tons of new investors. You give me some copy paste without source to see sample size or where, of that 47% and all this other junk telling me to "research" without doing any yourself.

k.

ps, guess what those kids living at home getting free rent are doing with their $600 plus unemployment?!


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## PopcornEater (Apr 26, 2020)

Clint Torres said:


> For every buyer a seller. Bunch of Robinhood types in this thread


I also exhale after inhaling &#129300;
What else is obvious in this world? &#128514;


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## Clint Torres (Sep 10, 2019)

PopcornEater said:


> I also exhale after inhaling &#129300;
> What else is obvious in this world? &#128514;


Lights out now. You can play tablet again tomorrow


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## PopcornEater (Apr 26, 2020)

Clint Torres said:


> Lights out now. You can play tablet again tomorrow


Lol &#128514; relax Clint Torres PhD


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Lots of people don't save and yes, many can't cover a small emergency of $400. While that sucks for them, I wonder how many of these people go out to eat, have expensive smartphones (financed no less), car payments, new clothes and so on. Dig deeper and you may see that their pain is self inflicted.

I still have the same iPhone 6s I bought in 2016 and I'm on Verizon prepaid service. $70/mo for two lines.

Lots of people making more on unemployment now over than when they were working. Maybe they can start paying off their debts and save for a rainy day? They probably should. If an extension is not approved and they find that their job is permanently lost, it'll be raining dogs and cats on them come August.



















https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...-unemployment-than-they-were-from-their-jobs/https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...efits-than-when-they-were-employed-2020-05-26


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

PopcornEater said:


> Look, buy into the hype &#128579;
> Just know that this market is artificial and the rug will be janked from underneath.. I'm sure eventually it will reach these levels again &#129300;
> We can't just print money and toss it into the market &#128513;


I do agree with what you say, but people need to note though that while nobody can predict if and when the stock market tumbles again, the U.S. Federal Reserve can print almost unlimited amounts of currency (U.S. dollars) particularly because it is still the world's reserve currency. Most debts of foreign nations are also denominated in fiat U.S. dollars. The pivotal point is _if_ they create _so_ many excess dollars such that the world loses _confidence_ in the dollar, hyperinflation would result. (but there could be a period of deflation first).

In such a circumstance, the U.S. stock market could rise dramatically still in _nominal_ terms, but not in _rea_l terms (with respect to assets such as gold and silver). In periods of hyperinflation like in Venezuela or in Germany (after WWI), the stock market rose dramatically in price even though the currencies were rapidly losing purchasing power.

I do concur with you on your last point, that this massive money printing will have profound consequences down the road.

_I wonder how quickly future Uber fares will adjust.._.



Clint Torres said:


> For every buyer a seller. Bunch of Robinhood types in this thread


I do read about the explosion of newly minted day trading during this pandemic (especially on the app you just referenced, Robin Hood):

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/03/25/coronavirus-investing-should-you-day-trading-now.aspx
Many passengers I have spoke to even this past week tell me about their big gains and feel they can just trade stocks into prosperity instead of looking for work. I never judge anyone, but past historical data suggests that such retail investors pile in at just the wrong times. I just wish everyone well.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

sellkatsell44 said:


> 35M+ includes a ton of furloughed as well as people who will have jobs once America is opened.
> 
> market is "fully recovered" because thanks to the cares act people have extra money in their pockets and they're putting it in the market. $600/week on top of unemployment? STOCK MARKET. $1200/$2400 stimulus check? STOCK MARKET. RMD cancelled? STOCK MARKET.


The only people putting that $1200 or whatever they got in the stock market are folks that didn't need it in the first place.

Stock market means nothing to those who have no money in it and are living paycheck to paycheck. Trump touted it as proof that the economy was great (well, for folks like him, maybe). Then when it went south all of a sudden it didn't matter so much. But it's never mattered to at least half the population except that they know someone else is getting richer, not them.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Young Kim said:


> I do agree with what you say, but people need to note though that while nobody can predict if and when the stock market tumbles again, the U.S. Federal Reserve can print almost unlimited amounts of currency (U.S. dollars) particularly because it is still the world's reserve currency. Most debts of foreign nations are also denominated in fiat U.S. dollars. The pivotal point is _if_ they create _so_ many excess dollars such that the world loses _confidence_ in the dollar, hyperinflation would result. (but there could be a period of deflation first).
> 
> In such a circumstance, the U.S. stock market could rise dramatically still in _nominal_ terms, but not in _rea_l terms (with respect to assets such as gold and silver). In periods of hyperinflation like in Venezuela or in Germany (after WWI), the stock market rose dramatically in price even though the currencies were rapidly losing purchasing power.
> 
> ...


Tldr: shouldn't print unlimited amount of money, y'all should have production to back those dollars so y'all on same boat as me, no more free money? :smiles:


Fuzzyelvis said:


> The only people putting that $1200 or whatever they got in the stock market are folks that didn't need it in the first place.
> 
> Stock market means nothing to those who have no money in it and are living paycheck to paycheck. Trump touted it as proof that the economy was great (well, for folks like him, maybe). Then when it went south all of a sudden it didn't matter so much. But it's never mattered to at least half the population except that they know someone else is getting richer, not them.


Paycheck to paycheck shouldn't be investing without savings

but I see enough pple posting that they have more money now then when they were working, in comparison to what they were making vs being on unemployment and getting stimulus money, they don't know what to do with extra money so they save and invest.

even when I was paycheck to paycheck, my manager (luxury retail) convinced me to open a retirement account and start investing in the future.

youll be surprised if you cut out the fat and go on a rice and spam diet, how you can go from paycheck to paycheck to paycheck with some savings and then some for investing for future/retirement.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Young Kim said:


> I often write really long posts, so I'll keep this one relatively short...
> 
> While I am still driving, I admit to a modicum of worry once the July 31st day comes. That is when in the U.S. the $600 Federal assistance is officially stopped. And therein lies the problem. There is a lot of talk about extending it. The issue is that if Congress votes to stop the $600/week, then consumption will drop, and precipitously. I found this to be correlated because when they _started_ the $600/week, I saw a jump in ride requests, here in Chicago, IL USA. I also witnessed a dramatic increase in UberEats, at least in my personal experience.
> 
> ...










WHERES THE " SHORT" POST !?!?


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

How many people living paycheck to paycheck work for the weekend? Go out party it up and do it all over again next weekend? 

I used to be like that. Even still, I made sure to put money away. Some of my co-workers weren't as disciplined though. Financing cars they couldn't afford, buying new electronics and always going out to eat. Self inflicted...

I agree, the stimulus was too generous and even posted a thread stating so. I didn't need a 1200 check. I gave it to someone that needed it. 

The stock market can go up and down (buy more when it's down). It does affect me and others investing their money in retirement accounts. It's not just the 0.1% like the president and people like him that benefit from the growth. 

If you don't invest, that's on you. Maybe look at your budget and cut back on things. You'd be surprised how much money you have leftover at the end of each month if you actually write your budget down on paper and realize the bullshit you used to waste it on.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

ColdRider said:


> I know people want the government aid extended but if states start to open, then people should return to work and take precautions.
> 
> The shutdown has already caused businesses to permanently close their doors and the jobs lost will be permanent. Imagine how many more businesses will close and how many more jobs will be permanently lost if the shutdown continues.


Imagine how many "NEW" RS drivers are going to be on the roads this fall


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Amos69 said:


> Imagine how many "NEW" RS drivers are going to be on the roads this fall


So many "ants" on the road competing for the same amount or less passengers.

Nobody is going to make money.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

ColdRider said:


> So many "ants" on the road competing for the same amount or less passengers.
> 
> Nobody is going to make money.


Dear ColdRider, I do admit to sharing in your concern for our future in Ubering. I _hope_ it gets back to normal, but there is reason to believe that it won't.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

There will be no recovery. I fully expect an "L" shaped line on the graphs, if reality was allowed to be seen.

Ants will not sign up enmass. 96% are gone due to attrition within a year anyways, and the barrier to entry in my market is 2-3 months of your time and about $2,000 up front plus a 10 year old car max. Our GLH is closed and may never reopen.

I live in a city that has had an unprecedented recession for the last 5 years now. It hasn't been this bad for 40 years. We've got 15% unemployment and a 40% commercial vacancy rate. It's the same as it ever as. If this statement was true, we'd have been overwhelmed by new ants, long, long, ago. Been a FT driver for 3 years now.

Revenues will return or exceed prior figures eventually before 2020 ends. Winter is coming. People aren't buying cars. People don't like taking the welfare wagon, or the subway @ $4 each way in my market now as it is. People still need to get around. Ride sharing or whatever it is marketed as, isn't going anywhere, nor are the pax.


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## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

ANT 7 said:


> There will be no recovery. I fully expect an "L" shaped line on the graphs, if reality was allowed to be seen.
> 
> Ants will not sign up enmass. 96% are gone due to attrition within a year anyways, and the barrier to entry in my market is 2-3 months of your time and about $2,000 up front plus a 10 year old car max. Our GLH is closed and may never reopen.
> 
> ...


Well written post ANT 7, I do wonder and hope that Uber will _adjust the driver/rider mileage rates and track them to inflation_. With all the money printing at unprecedented historical amounts, hyperinflation could result down the road. Economists say that it is hard to contain inflation once it starts. I suspect there was be some deflation first though.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> No, you are confused and old and apparently I hit a spot with you.


hahahahahaha. Hit a spot. Says the triggered one. You are young and have little experience. And you seem quite confused on the status of the majority of American's both before and during this current crisis. Read more; research more. Your wide paint brush needs to be retired.

Get your head out of the 1%; the other 99% are way more important and relevant.

Now go outside and enjoy the weather; it will help you become less triggered when your opinion is challenged.

And old? I suppose when you are so young.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

SHalester said:


> hahahahahaha. Hit a spot. Says the triggered one. You are young and have little experience. And you seem quite confused on the status of the majority of American's both before and during this current crisis. Read more; research more. Your wide paint brush needs to be retired.
> 
> Get your head out of the 1%; the other 99% are way more important and relevant.
> 
> ...


Sigh.

hitting me back with the same type comment I made of you, original.

You don't have anything to bring to the table other then stubbornness and those infamous but not eye roll x4.

no hate but you clearly are past your prime. I know plenty of pple your age and older that keeps themselves in the loop, humble enough to admit when they're wrong and won't look at it as "you are young so automatically you don't know any better".

stay with your head planted in the ground &#128077;&#127995;&#128077;&#127995;

still didn't have a decent retort I see.

Bet you didn't even read the link I gave fully. Or read my other responses. Hilarious given your "advice" to me.


----------



## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

Businesses are trying to reopen, but their (former) employees won't come back while the +$600 is in effect. So businesses will be forced to try and hire new people, and then those waiting out the $600 might find themselves really unemployed come August, without the extra money coming in. People might try to sign up for Uber, but summer is a bad time in most of the country, so they'll probably flame out.


----------



## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

Atom guy said:


> Businesses are trying to reopen, but their (former) employees won't come back while the +$600 is in effect. So businesses will be forced to try and hire new people, and then those waiting out the $600 might find themselves really unemployed come August, without the extra money coming in. People might try to sign up for Uber, but summer is a bad time in most of the country, so they'll probably flame out.


Agreed Atom guy, the years I worked, Ubering late summers were rather slow. It would pick up here in Chicago when it started getting colder. Many new drivers will surely start, but as you said, many will "flame out".


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Young Kim said:


> I often write really long posts, so I'll keep this one relatively short...
> 
> While I am still driving, I admit to a modicum of worry once the July 31st day comes. That is when in the U.S. the $600 Federal assistance is officially stopped. And therein lies the problem. There is a lot of talk about extending it. The issue is that if Congress votes to stop the $600/week, then consumption will drop, and precipitously. I found this to be correlated because when they _started_ the $600/week, I saw a jump in ride requests, here in Chicago, IL USA. I also witnessed a dramatic increase in UberEats, at least in my personal experience.
> 
> ...


Take the unemployment;
Learn new skills, polish up old ones,
Wait till the attack on the civilized world by China ends;
Get a decent job


----------



## 1.5xorbust (Nov 22, 2017)

My gut tells me that things are going to get worse before they get better. Too much damage done for a quick recovery.


----------



## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

I think Covid-19 will likely resurface once things open, and benefits will get extended until the end of the year.



1.5xorbust said:


> My gut tells me that things are going to get worse before they get better. Too much damage done for a quick recovery.


Absolutely correct. There's no shortcuts to recovery.


----------



## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Young Kim said:


> I often write really long posts, so I'll keep this one relatively short...
> 
> While I am still driving, I admit to a modicum of worry once the July 31st day comes. That is when in the U.S. the $600 Federal assistance is officially stopped. And therein lies the problem. There is a lot of talk about extending it. The issue is that if Congress votes to stop the $600/week, then consumption will drop, and precipitously. I found this to be correlated because when they _started_ the $600/week, I saw a jump in ride requests, here in Chicago, IL USA. I also witnessed a dramatic increase in UberEats, at least in my personal experience.
> 
> ...


The stock market is completely disconnected from the current economic realities. The economic stimulus has people believing that everything will go back to normal. The fact that you have unemployment rates at the levels of the great depression has been ignored. We'll see if everything goes back to normal, once the trillions of stimulus has been removed from the system.

BTW, did you see any surge in chicago?


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Don't anybody worry about Uber surviving. Drivers are not even core to their business model according to their chief legal officer, Tony West. Consequently the 80% decline in rideshare demand won't hurt them at all.









Uber says drivers aren’t essential to its business. But if they aren’t, who is?


Earlier this week, legislators in California passed a groundbreaking piece of legislation that will require companies to reclassify contract workers as employees in certain situations. While the bill, which is expected to be signed into law by…




www.mic.com





The gig-economy will continue to employee and exploit.


----------



## MikeSki (Apr 2, 2020)

They are talking about paying $450 a week to return to work after July back to work stimulus


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Is it wrong that I read the first line then skipped to the last paragraph and feel like I still got all the points op was making. &#129300;



SOLA-RAH said:


> _"I am very very happy so many people are getting it, because I hear from passengers how much they needed it... but when if/when it is taken away, we could have a measurable decrease in ride requests/food deliveries..."_
> This statement is exactly why the $600 is guaranteed to end July 31st. When you have no job and are having to rely on the U.S. taxpayer for spending money, taking an uber is a luxury not a necessity. The average person is gonna treat PUA & unemployment the exact same way they treated their paycheck...by blowing it on trivialities as fast as possible. Instead of making every dollar count to weather these hard times, they'll spend free money even faster. The government "supporting" the people is about the best injection a troubled economy can get.
> 
> Uber will boom from July 3rd-July 31st because uber drivers still (or should) be sitting at home. Why work hard when you can get $800+/week for doing nothing? And I can't blame them because they'll be penalized for driving and earning more than a few hundred bucks a week.
> ...


You missed something the stocks are inflated from all the stimulus money driving consumers sales.

Once all the stimulus is gone the stocks are going to tumble along with consumer demand.


----------



## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Don't anybody worry about Uber surviving. Drivers are not even core to their business model according to their chief legal officer, Tony West. Consequently the 80% decline in rideshare demand won't hurt them at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Uber likes to play tough and mighty because they have investors supporting them. I'm sure the guy who said that right before AB5 got his ears pulled behind the scenes. Uber needs drivers, we are the ones that make them look like a credible business. At this point I don't care if Uber goes under, they never provided shit during the current crisis.



Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> The stock market is completely disconnected from the current economic realities. The economic stimulus has people believing that everything will go back to normal. The fact that you have unemployment rates at the levels of the great depression has been ignored. We'll see if everything goes back to normal, once the trillions of stimulus has been removed from the system.
> 
> BTW, did you see any surge in chicago?


I don't see how stocks keep going up when there's no sight of a positive outcome in the near future. Think they switched from algorithm to manual control. Feels totally manipulated.


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Tony73 said:


> Uber likes to play tough and mighty because they have investors supporting them. I'm sure the guy who said that right before AB5 got his ears pulled behind the scenes. Uber needs drivers, we are the ones that make them look like a credible business. At this point I don't care if Uber goes under, they never provided shit during the current crisis.


I just like to throw that out once in awhile since it was such a stupid thing for them to say. I don't care if Uber goes under either. The whole thing was just an investment scam that got taken too far. Who knew that an illegal bandit cab service would get so far.


----------



## Uberguy1 (Apr 14, 2016)

ColdRider said:


> I know people want the government aid extended but if states start to open, then people should return to work and take precautions.
> 
> The shutdown has already caused businesses to permanently close their doors and the jobs lost will be permanent. Imagine how many more businesses will close and how many more jobs will be permanently lost if the shutdown continues.


What you say makes sense to me


----------



## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

I'm near the Micro Center in Houston. I'm a computer science major at a local University and am often there picking up materials/parts. Of the staff I've befriended, they're blown away by the number of people buying expensive computer parts they probably otherwise couldn't afford. 

My point is: human nature is short-sighted; often we don't see beyond what's right in front of us. I fear that those who've wasted their UI on frivolous purchases will suffer after July.


----------



## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

JaredJ said:


> I'm near the Micro Center in Houston. I'm a computer science major at a local University and am often there picking up materials/parts. Of the staff I've befriended, they're blown away by the number of people buying expensive computer parts they probably otherwise couldn't afford.
> 
> My point is: human nature is short-sighted; often we don't see beyond what's right in front of us. I fear that those who've wasted their UI on frivolous purchases will suffer after July.


Yep, my neighbor for sure. People that are not used to this sort of money are spending it all on unnecessary things. Bearing in mind it's just over $600! Rather keep it for an emergency. We'll be feeling the sequels of these crisis for the next 10 years.


----------



## touberornottouber (Aug 12, 2016)

I thinkt he big problem will be all the drivers out with maybe 50-75% of the rides as normal. It is going to suck BIG TIME.


----------



## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> The stock market is completely disconnected from the current economic realities. The economic stimulus has people believing that everything will go back to normal. The fact that you have unemployment rates at the levels of the great depression has been ignored. We'll see if everything goes back to normal, once the trillions of stimulus has been removed from the system.
> 
> BTW, did you see any surge in chicago?


Nope, no surge here this weekend. However, the Mayor of Chicago Lori Lightfoot just announced curfew at 9:00 pm, which is when I usually am working. I saw the crowds form from the nationwide protests... and then police cars on fire in the downtown Loop and broken storefront windows on the Magnificent Mile. I saw Lake Shore Dr. being blocked by crowds. So...I figured it best to stay home.


----------



## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Young Kim said:


> I saw the crowds form from the nationwide protests... and then police cars on fire in the downtown Loop and broken storefront windows on the Magnificent Mile. I saw Lake Shore Dr. being blocked by crowds. So...I figured it best to stay home.
> 
> View attachment 468699


&#129318;‍♂


----------



## Im_The_Brains (Apr 22, 2020)

Clint Torres said:


> no no no
> 
> contrary
> 
> ...


Spec Tech SD


----------



## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

Now with all the protests ->turned riots ->turned outright burning, I have more reason to ponder what it means for us Uber drivers (whether part time or full time) irrespective of the July 31th date I pointed to on the OP. These U.S. nationwide riots are going to have many social and financial impacts as many private businesses, government buildings, city apartment units (like the 189 unit one in Minneapolis, MN, USA) are going down in flames. It is going to take even more money the government (and private citizens) _do not have_ to rebuild. (perhaps many structures will not be rebuilt).

This cannot be good for Uber and us drivers.

I am emotionally crushed as to what all this means for my great country (and I feel enormous pain and sorrow from seeing the suffering from all involved and impacted), and also a lot of frustration.


----------



## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

According to the Los Angeles news, Uber is essential in transporting the looters to and from their looting locations. So don't quit now. The community needs you more than ever.


----------



## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

SpinalCabbage said:


> According to the Los Angeles news, Uber is essential in transporting the looters to and from their looting locations. So don't quit now. The community needs you more than ever.


LOL, good one. But man, it is harder than ever. Those surgical masks I have to wear make it harder to breathe. After about 2 hours, it gets downright uncomfortable. And if the passengers want to talk to me (and believe me I do not want to talk), then my mask sometimes moves up and down (while speaking) and I know I am not supposed to touch it with my hands (because they it won't be "sterile" anymore). And the warmer weather will make it harder to wear masks.


----------



## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

Young Kim said:


> Now with all the protests ->turned riots ->turned outright burning, I have more reason to ponder what it means for us Uber drivers (whether part time or full time) irrespective of the July 31th date I pointed to on the OP. These U.S. nationwide riots are going to have many social and financial impacts as many private businesses, government buildings, city apartment units (like the 189 unit one in Minneapolis, MN, USA) are going down in flames. It is going to take even more money the government (and private citizens) do not have to rebuild. (perhaps many structures will not be rebuilt).
> 
> This cannot be good for Uber and us drivers.
> 
> I am emotionally crushed as to what all this means for my great country (and I feel enormous pain and sorrow from seeing the suffering from all involved and impacted), and also a lot of frustration.


Biz is excellent. I had a pickup at BestBuy yesterday. He loaded my car with all kinds of electronics. Even gave me a laptop as a tip. Glad I declined the pickup at Target.



ColdRider said:


> So many "ants" on the road competing for the same amount or less passengers.
> 
> Nobody is going to make money.


Nah. Many drivers will not have their annual paperwork renewed. Time to cull the herd. Remove the low-rated drivers and up the ante.


----------



## Young Kim (Jan 28, 2015)

EastBayRides said:


> Biz is excellent. I had a pickup at BestBuy yesterday. He loaded my car with all kinds of electronics. Even gave me a laptop as a tip. Glad I declined the pickup at Target.
> 
> 
> Nah. Many drivers will not have their annual paperwork renewed. Time to cull the herd. Remove the low-rated drivers and up the ante.


LOL at the laptop tip! I just hope that Uber does something, anything, to keep the dedicated and highly rated drivers on the road.


----------



## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

Once the riots are over things will get back to how they were. Understand this, people are getting paid an average of $831 to sit their asses at home. Now more than ever they can afford to go out and protest. We’ll never see another stimulus like the $600 a week because the protests got out of control! The few idiots setting fire everywhere will hurt the rest of the taxpayers.


----------



## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

Tony73 said:


> Once the riots are over things will get back to how they were. Understand this, people are getting paid an average of $831 to sit their asses at home. Now more than ever they can afford to go out and protest. We'll never see another stimulus like the $600 a week because the protests got out of control! The few idiots setting fire everywhere will hurt the rest of the taxpayers.


Those sitting at home are not taxpayers. They are hurting the taxpayers.


----------



## Tony73 (Oct 12, 2016)

EastBayRides said:


> Those sitting at home are not taxpayers. They are hurting the taxpayers.


Not really, that's a flawed statement. Never needed UI in my life. If I went back now, I'd have to work harder for my money, risk my life and safety and who knows what else! I've contributed to the pot my whole life. Now I borrow some, not all of what've contributed. It's my money, really. In a way I'm helping save lives. Uber drivers are likely major spreaders of covid-19. The virus stays afloat for up to 3 hours. Sitting in a confined space where several people spread their germs is not safe right now.


----------



## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

Tony73 said:


> Not really, that's a flawed statement. Never needed UI in my life. If I went back now, I'd have to work harder for my money, risk my life and safety and who knows what else! I've contributed to the pot my whole life. Now I borrow some, not all of what've contributed. It's my money, really. In a way I'm helping save lives. Uber drivers are likely major spreaders of covid-19. The virus stays afloat for up to 3 hours. Sitting in a confined space where several people spread their germs is not safe right now.


No statement ever applies to 100% of situations. Here in CA, drivers are getting $1000/wk tax-free entitlements (as you say, "It's my money" and "I contributed my whole life" = entitlement), and they claim no income so they receive free health insurance (MediCal). Leaching the system for no real reason. CA just released data about where the virus is spreading, and it is prisons, old-folks facilities, and food processing facilities that account for the majority of cases. Drive with the windows cracked and you drastically diminish the chance of contracting it, even if your pax works at a nursing home. If you do contract it, 80% of the time the illness will be mild or symptomless (again, data support this even if your news source or local politician says otherwise). Not that I want you driving again to take rides from those pax that are not afraid of the same boogeyman.


----------



## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Young Kim said:


> LOL, good one. But man, it is harder than ever. Those surgical masks I have to wear make it harder to breathe. After about 2 hours, it gets downright uncomfortable.


I have to wear a mask regardless due to severe allergies. One trick to extend how long you can stand it is to take it off in between rides (I set the air to recirculate during the off time) and then put the mask on just before picking up a new pax.

--------------
BTW, I just read yesterday from a financial site that consumer savings is up. People feeling uncertain about the future and want to be prepared.

I have been at mostly cash in my brokerage accounts. Not feeling certain enough about any investment (stocks, bonds, precious metals, real estate, etc.) to go in heavy. Feeling _very_ uncertain, actually. I made a killing on the initial market drop, but timing on any drop is infinitely more difficult now due to recent short squeezes (see next pp).

One of the reasons overlooked and under-reported about the historic rise in the market is a sort of perpetual "short squeeze" sicne 2009, which is investors betting the market will drop, and end up actually forcing the market higher then it would have gone when the market rises slightly and they have to buy back their short positions at a significant loss. Just saying that that is _one_ reason.


----------



## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Ya know; I am much more concerned with our citizen economy.
I am concerned about our economy.

I am NOT concerned about ANYTHING uber.


----------



## ShibariLover (Mar 3, 2019)

I just read this on the PUA govt. site and it says 
The maximum length of time a person may collect PUA benefits is 39 weeks. Eligibility is based on your unemployment caused by one or more of the reasons listed in the FAQ "How do I know if I am eligible for PUA?"

PUA Benefits will no longer be available after the week of December 25, 2020. The last week the FPUC is payable is the week ending July 25, 2020. 


So the way this is written, or the way I understand this is that if you are receiving regular state unemployment that in July PUA will end for those collecting state UE. It appears to me that if you only qualify for PUA you will actually receive it for 39 weeks. 

Am I understanding this correctly?

Also, I reside in NJ and did not qualify for any state UE, unlike other states. Has any NJ gig (Uber/Lyft) drivers received any state unemployment?


----------



## jeanocelot (Sep 2, 2016)

There has been talk of a $450/week supplement that would be handed out to folks that are working, to replace the $600/week. I think that since the #1 thing on Trump's mind is to get the economy roaring back as much as possible by Election Day, he will be willing to make a deal. And I think that Pelosi will replay with keeping the $600/week for the unemployed while giving the $450/week for the employed. Essentially everyone would be getting the $450/week, with unemployed folks getting an extra $150 plus whatever regular unemployment pays - which is only 1/2 of the average of the state once the standard 13 or 26 weeks run out. This would motivate a lot of folks who work full-time (i.e., even if it means stitching together a bunch of part-time jobs).

And hey, maybe the increased finickiness of the workers will force employers to start treating folks better, like fixed schedules, etc.



Young Kim said:


> Agreed with needing to be very cautious... The U.S. government has long past the point where more borrowing can lead to a "GDP multiplier" effect. Many economic studies have shown that once a government's debt exceeds 90% of GDP, it leads to prolonged depressed GDP growth for many years.
> 
> This is because debt can be generally divided into 2 categories, productive and unproductive. Productive debt is debt incurred which can repay principal and interest. Unproductive debt is usually consumptive debt and is needed for everyday living expenses. Also, debt can be considered "future consumption brought forward to the present day".
> 
> ...


I don't buy it. The economy is folks making stuff and doing services; money is just a bookkeeping medium. The cause of high debt in the first place is the stimulation of the economy that was done because the economy was in low-growth mode before, or alternatively was in high-growth mode, but that would cause inflation, which again is just a bookkeeping thing.



sellkatsell44 said:


> 35M+ includes a ton of furloughed as well as people who will have jobs once America is opened.
> 
> market is "fully recovered" because thanks to the cares act people have extra money in their pockets and they're putting it in the market. $600/week on top of unemployment? STOCK MARKET. $1200/$2400 stimulus check? STOCK MARKET. RMD cancelled? STOCK MARKET.


That's you or I; most folks are pissing it away.



Daisey77 said:


> The drivers who are refusing to work or are planning on waiting till the last minute to come back to work, my find themselves in trouble sooner than July 31st. Just because it was approved to pay out till July 31st doesn't mean they have to pay out until then. There are still certain guidelines that we have to qualify under. There are specific guidelines in place regarding the Pua and the other three Federal programs. Those guidelines include who is able to be approved as well as when someone is no longer eligible. Based on the reasons listed, once the social distancing and stay-at-home orders start getting lifted, as they are now, there's going to be a large number of drivers who will no longer qualify.


Ants are all self-employed contractors; therefore, they can choose when to re-open their business, such as when COVID is *completely* a non-issue. I've decided to keep my "business" closed; therefore, I am still legally unemployed.



ColdRider said:


> ... I wonder how many of these people ... have expensive smartphones ...
> 
> I still have the same iPhone 6s I bought in 2016 and I'm on Verizon prepaid service. $70/mo for two lines.


I get a free phone & phone service as part of the Medicaid expansion. :biggrin:



ShibariLover said:


> I just read this on the PUA govt. site and it says
> The maximum length of time a person may collect PUA benefits is 39 weeks. Eligibility is based on your unemployment caused by one or more of the reasons listed in the FAQ "How do I know if I am eligible for PUA?"
> 
> PUA Benefits will no longer be available after the week of December 25, 2020. The last week the FPUC is payable is the week ending July 25, 2020.
> ...


There are 2 components to the unemployment benefit. The PUA is the regular unemployment - or 1/2 of the state average, for self-employed - benefit; this lasts 39 weeks. There is also the FPUC which is 17 weeks; this is the $600.


----------



## everydayimubering (Aug 5, 2017)

Daisey77 said:


> In fact I hear they've announced numerous times that refusing to work out of fear of coronavirus is not a valid reason.


Yes and no. Those who're over 60 or 65, vulnerable, at-risk cannot be expected to resume work until the all-clear signal is sounded - unless social distancing is not an issue in their type of work or profession. .


----------



## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Young Kim said:


> then I posit that many employers (with greater reduced demand from consumers), may not be able to hire anyone because they cannot pay the required wage to influence workers to come back. This could result in businesses going under... And thus there will be impacts on our driver earnings.


Or where you worked just got burned to the ground!

People who are out of work should start looking for jobs NOW. Beat the rush and huge influx of people that will be looking for work once the benefits end.


----------



## jeanocelot (Sep 2, 2016)

DriverMark said:


> People who are out of work should start looking for jobs NOW. Beat the rush and huge influx of people that will be looking for work once the benefits end.


Not necessary. Employers will respond just like Economics textbooks say they will - they will pay less and/or make the job more nasty & brutish, thereby losing some folks.


----------



## ShibariLover (Mar 3, 2019)

“There are 2 components to the unemployment benefit. The PUA is the regular unemployment - or 1/2 of the state average, for self-employed - benefit; this lasts 39 weeks. There is also the FPUC which is 17 weeks; this is the $600.”

==============

So if it just now qualified for Fpua does that mean I get 17 weeks even if the fpuc ends in July?


----------



## Lvd2020 (Apr 9, 2020)

I doubt the 600 gets extended past July, it was too much in the first place but I’m not complaining. Whole point of stimulus was to get ppl back to work and the economy back to normal. Politicians were naive to think ppl would go back to work if you’re paying them more to stay home.


----------



## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Now the latest carrot 🥕 seems to be to cut the 600$ into half and make it 300/wk after July.


----------



## WokeUP (Dec 19, 2018)

Young Kim said:


> I often write really long posts, so I'll keep this one relatively short...
> 
> While I am still driving, I admit to a modicum of worry once the July 31st day comes. That is when in the U.S. the $600 Federal assistance is officially stopped. And therein lies the problem. There is a lot of talk about extending it. The issue is that if Congress votes to stop the $600/week, then consumption will drop, and precipitously. I found this to be correlated because when they _started_ the $600/week, I saw a jump in ride requests, here in Chicago, IL USA. I also witnessed a dramatic increase in UberEats, at least in my personal experience.
> 
> ...


There will be no "V" shaped recovery. The stock market is being propped up artificially. We must end the FED. How can stocks go up while jobs disappear? and the economy suffers? When companies pump then dump on Americans who erroneously still buy stocks at over priced valuations.


----------



## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

Atom guy said:


> Businesses are trying to reopen, but their (former) employees won't come back while the +$600 is in effect. So businesses will be forced to try and hire new people, and then those waiting out the $600 might find themselves really unemployed come August, without the extra money coming in. People might try to sign up for Uber, but summer is a bad time in most of the country, so they'll probably flame out.


Beware Unemployment may start contacting employers once you state is open to see if you are still unemployed or have you start looking for work like they do when there was no virus. The $600. is only if there is no work...


----------



## jeanocelot (Sep 2, 2016)

ShibariLover said:


> "There are 2 components to the unemployment benefit. The PUA is the regular unemployment - or 1/2 of the state average, for self-employed - benefit; this lasts 39 weeks. There is also the FPUC which is 17 weeks; this is the $600."
> 
> ==============
> 
> So if it just now qualified for Fpua does that mean I get 17 weeks even if the fpuc ends in July?


AIUI, FPUC will end in July, no matter how short the beneficiary's time is on it, and the 39-week benefit ends at the end of the year (if not exhausted by then).



islanddriver said:


> Beware Unemployment may start contacting employers once you state is open to see if you are still unemployed or have you start looking for work like they do when there was no virus. The $600. is only if there is no work...


So that means for self-employed folks like Yours Truly, the worker gets to decide if he wants to call himself back to work.

I wonder if I shall decide to forgo the $600/week to call myself back to work. :laugh::roflmao:



WokeUP said:


> There will be no "V" shaped recovery. The stock market is being propped up artificially. We must end the FED. How can stocks go up while jobs disappear? and the economy suffers? When companies pump then dump on Americans who erroneously still buy stocks at over priced valuations.


Why should we end the FED? Because you don't have any investment in the stock market? That sounds quite envious.

The FED is doing what it should be doing - expanding the money supply as much as possible so long as the low-inflation target is not breached.



mbd said:


> Now the latest carrot &#129365; seems to be to cut the 600$ into half and make it 300/wk after July.


Where have you read that?


----------



## WokeUP (Dec 19, 2018)

jeanocelot said:


> AIUI, FPUC will end in July, no matter how short the beneficiary's time is on it, and the 39-week benefit ends at the end of the year (if not exhausted by then).
> 
> 
> So that means for self-employed folks like Yours Truly, the worker gets to decide if he wants to call himself back to work.
> ...


For starters because it's unconstitutional. The Constitution makes no mention of a central bank.
The Federal reserve is not federal and they have zero reserves.
That's why.

Federal Reserve encourages deficit spending and constantly bails out the banksters. Also it's way to secretive.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

jeanocelot said:


> Ants are all self-employed contractors; therefore, they can choose when to re-open their business, such as when COVID is *completely* a non-issue. I've decided to keep my "business" closed; therefore, I am still legally unemployed.


Sure you can choose when to reopen your business but the government can also decide when to stop paying you. The Cares Act implements certain situations in which we qualify for unemployment. Therefore if we don't meet those qualifications they don't have to pay us.&#129335;&#127996;
According to them, not working due to fear of Coronavirus, does not qualify for payment.



everydayimubering said:


> Yes and no. Those who're over 60 or 65, vulnerable, at-risk cannot be expected to resume work until the all-clear signal is sounded - unless social distancing is not an issue in their type of work or profession. .


Right, individuals in high risk categories and those simply refusing to go back to work out of fear for Coronavirus are two different things


ShibariLover said:


> So if it just now qualified for Fpua does that mean I get 17 weeks even if the fpuc ends in July?


 nope. The end of July is the end the Federal pandemic unemployment compensation


islanddriver said:


> Beware Unemployment may start contacting employers once you state is open to see if you are still unemployed or have you start looking for work like they do when there was no virus. The $600. is only if there is no work...


Here If an employer offers an employee their job back and they refuse, the employer must report it to the state


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

The economy is going to be trash after federal money dries up. Pay off as many debts as possible, do maintenance on your cars, etc. Prepare for the storm ahead. You won't have money in the future.


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## jeanocelot (Sep 2, 2016)

Daisey77 said:


> Sure you can choose when to reopen your business but the government can also decide when to stop paying you. The Cares Act implements certain situations in which we qualify for unemployment. Therefore if we don't meet those qualifications they don't have to pay us.&#129335;&#127996;
> According to them, not working due to fear of Coronavirus, does not qualify for payment.


You still don't get it. A self-employed individual can choose to not engage in his business if he doesn't see enough of a profit opportunity. This has nothing with work; it has to do with *business*. I he chooses this, then obviously he tells himself the employee that he is still on furlough.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

jeanocelot said:


> You still don't get it. A self-employed individual can choose to not engage in his business if he doesn't see enough of a profit opportunity. This has nothing with work; it has to do with *business*. I he chooses this, then obviously he tells himself the employee that he is still on furlough.


I would think that you (we as rideshare) can't follow the CDC guidelines of social Distancing 6 feet apart.


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## Lvd2020 (Apr 9, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> Here If an employer offers an employee their job back and they refuse, the employer must report it to the state


That's the main reason a lot of companies returned the PPP money. It wasn't because of public pressure or that they felt bad, it didn't make sense for them financially. If their employees are making more on unemployment they're not going to want to come back. If the employees aren't rehired the PPP money is no longer forgivable.


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## whatyoutalkinboutwillis (Jul 29, 2017)

sellkatsell44 said:


> 35M+ includes a ton of furloughed as well as people who will have jobs once America is opened.
> 
> market is "fully recovered" because thanks to the cares act people have extra money in their pockets and they're putting it in the market. $600/week on top of unemployment? STOCK MARKET. $1200/$2400 stimulus check? STOCK MARKET. RMD cancelled? STOCK MARKET.


I don't think people are using their stimulus or 'extra' money on the stock market. That's akin to buying magic beans for most people. For the people who needed that money, it has already been spent. Bills, food, etc. The people who didn't have an immediate need are sitting on the money. As is usually the case, the people who didn't need a stimulus are making a killing by feeding on all the people who have had to sell their stocks. As you know, not everyone will lose money in a crash.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

whatyoutalkinboutwillis said:


> I don't think people are using their stimulus or 'extra' money on the stock market. That's akin to buying magic beans for most people. For the people who needed that money, it has already been spent. Bills, food, etc. The people who didn't have an immediate need are sitting on the money. As is usually the case, the people who didn't need a stimulus are making a killing by feeding on all the people who have had to sell their stocks. As you know, not everyone will lose money in a crash.


Ideally yes.

I know there are plenty of Americans without savings, without retirement over 50. I hear the statistics.

what I was and am restating, is that there is a movement of the younger generation and also people who may not fit into the above mentioned category (who I should mention, haven't really put much $$$ in stocks in any form-whether as equity or funds (etf/mf)-but are now, and they have millions that previously were on a 3 month tbill roll), who are investing where they haven't before. As mentioned, lack of access and cost deterred the younger generations and those barriers no longer exist.

with the new millennials having no real bills but interest in investing, they've opened accounts in record numbers across the big powerhouses/discount brokerage firm (too lazy to go back to the link that stubborn and stupid wouldn't click).

more money is poured into the market which, again, I don't think correctly reflects the state of the economy currently.

but it is up because of new money, and I am willing to bet those millennials mentioned are part of the folks who received stimulus $$.


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## whatyoutalkinboutwillis (Jul 29, 2017)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Ideally yes.
> 
> I know there are plenty of Americans without savings, without retirement over 50. I hear the statistics.
> 
> ...


I looked it up and you're correct. It sounds counterintuitive that people would use their money to buy stocks, but you're correct. People did buy stocks with their stimulus check. But from the link below, it says that (overall) spending was up 80%, which makes sense. Most people spent that money as soon as they got it. It goes on to say that of that 80% 'much' went towards stock trades. They don't break it down further than that.

So technically many people did buy stocks. When I first read your statement I immediately thought of those people who absolutely needed that money to sustain them. My bad. I guess the question then becomes, are the people who bought stocks with their stimulus check behind the uptick? I doubt it. A one-time stimulus check wouldn't account for it. It seems to me that the same people who make money from a panic are doing so here. Also, they seem to imply that the people who spent their stimulus checks on stocks were already in the market.

From the link:

"A large number of Americans used coronavirus stimulus checks to trade stocks, a new study has revealed.

The study by Envestnet Yodlee tracked how 2.5 million Americans were spending money since the start of the pandemic. During the week in mid-April when most stimulus checks were issued, more than 80% of people who received money increased their spending.

Notably, *much* of that spending went towards stock trades. Americans earning between $35,000 and $75,000 per year, who were eligible for $1,200 in stimulus payments, increased stock trading activity by 90% compared to early April."

https://www.techradar.com/news/coronavirus-stimulus-checks-used-to-buy-stocks
HOWEVER, millennials are people born from 1981 - 1996 (39 to 24 years old). So they have real bills. Not all of them are living rent-free with their parents. Just sayin.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

whatyoutalkinboutwillis said:


> I looked it up and you're correct. It sounds counterintuitive that people would use their money to buy stocks, but you're correct. People did buy stocks with their stimulus check. But from the link below, it says that (overall) spending was up 80%, which makes sense. Most people spent that money as soon as they got it. It goes on to say that of that 80% 'much' went towards stock trades. They don't break it down further than that.
> 
> So technically many people did buy stocks. When I first read your statement I immediately thought of those people who absolutely needed that money to sustain them. My bad. I guess the question then becomes, are the people who bought stocks with their stimulus check behind the uptick? I doubt it. A one-time stimulus check wouldn't account for it. It seems to me that the same people who make money from a panic are doing so here. Also, they seem to imply that the people who spent their stimulus checks on stocks were already in the market.
> 
> ...


Hahaha I said the younger then millennials. I am very surprised that it's that high too (age of millennial) that's also why I said new millennials. Don't know what the name after is.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

jeanocelot said:


> You still don't get it. A self-employed individual can choose to not engage in his business if he doesn't see enough of a profit opportunity. This has nothing with work; it has to do with *business*. I he chooses this, then obviously he tells himself the employee that he is still on furlough.


No, I don't think you get it. Being furloughed is all fine and dandy if you're getting unemployment through regular UI but we're not. California might be but the rest of the states aren't. PUA is completely different than regular UI. It operates completely different than regular UI. It's federally funded and there are federal guidelines regulating it. You don't get to decide whether your situation qualifies or not.&#129335;&#127996; if you don't meet one of the situations that they have specifically stated as a reason to get paid, you don't get paid.



Lvd2020 said:


> That's the main reason a lot of companies returned the PPP monet because it didn't make sense for them financially. If their employees are making more on unemployment they're not going to want to come back. If the employees aren't rehired the PPP money is no longer forgivable.


 the employees don't have a choice. By them refusing to accept their employers offer to return to work, can cost them their unemployment. Here, any employer who offers an employee their position back and they refuse it, is to notify the Department of Labor and they yank their benefits. Of course they're all *****ing about going back to work for less money but they're missing the entire point of unemployment. Especially this temporary $600 unemployment boost put in place. People are getting greedy when they should in fact be grateful they were getting the unemployment to begin with. Especially the extra $600. They wouldn't be singing the same song had the extra $600 a week not been allotted. It's funny because what are they all expecting to happen come July 31st? To go crawling back to their employers for job that they refused 2 months prior? Do they not realize every other person who denied a job is now going to be out in the job market at the same time as them in a very unstable economy? It's going to turn around bite them in the ass as they deserve


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

I've said so in a few other threads, pure thoughts and nothing concrete but looks like Germany is doing it (giving money to employers directly instead of via unemployment so no one is let go and it props up the businesses without leaving behind the little people)









https://www.propublica.org/article/...t-while-spending-less-per-person-than-the-u-s


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## simont23 (Jul 24, 2019)

Young Kim said:


> I often write really long posts, so I'll keep this one relatively short...
> 
> While I am still driving, I admit to a modicum of worry once the July 31st day comes. That is when in the U.S. the $600 Federal assistance is officially stopped. And therein lies the problem. There is a lot of talk about extending it. The issue is that if Congress votes to stop the $600/week, then consumption will drop, and precipitously. I found this to be correlated because when they _started_ the $600/week, I saw a jump in ride requests, here in Chicago, IL USA. I also witnessed a dramatic increase in UberEats, at least in my personal experience.
> 
> ...


Why are you slightly worried about the Uber driver economy. You should be totally worried about it. As soon as Dara has enriched himself enough and/or Uber runs out of suckers to fund it's ridiculous deficits you will need to find something else to do. Possibly being a social influencer getting yourself photographed at marches, rallies, demos, riots, etc., and totally abusing the point of them.


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## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/gzpcp0


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

no need to extend. most folks were making more money not working than working. enjoy what you got. now get back to work.....


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## Filipino858 (Jan 25, 2020)

I feel that there are surges because no one is driving right now and collecting unemployment. I have been collecting unemployment since March , so the 600 a week i will collect until July when it ends. Then ,August I start a new job as an interior designer. Now if you’re a driver going back to work as an Uber driver, I worry that so many drivers are going to be on the road again, and we will see rideshare becoming extremely slow for many people. And when I say slow, I mean one passenger per hour. Hopefully however that is not the case and people are out and about confident enough to live as if it was pre-COVID-19 economy. If that will be the case then Uber will be busy again I believe. It must be Pre-COVID 19 economic levels to see the same busy levels as it was prior to all this. Last time I checked though this virus is still here , so we shall see what Happens.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

Filipino858 said:


> I feel that there are surges because no one is driving right now and collecting unemployment. I have been collecting unemployment since March , so the 600 a week i will collect until July when it ends. Then ,August I start a new job as an interior designer. Now if you're a driver going back to work as an Uber driver, I worry that so many drivers are going to be on the road again, and we will see rideshare becoming extremely slow for many people. And when I say slow, I mean one passenger per hour. Hopefully however that is not the case and people are out and about confident enough to live as if it was pre-COVID-19 economy. If that will be the case then Uber will be busy again I believe. It must be Pre-COVID 19 economic levels to see the same busy levels as it was prior to all this. Last time I checked though this virus is still here , so we shall see what Happens.


 I absolutely agree with this. Unfortunately as long as the entertainment aspect is on hold, there will be no back to pre covid times. I know especially my market concerts and sporting events are a HUGE contributing factor to our income. Although there is talk of sports returning, there is no word on when concert tours will resume. Like yourself, I am hugely worried about business come in the beginning of August. For us that have been out there working the entire time, it's nauseating to think of all the drivers who will be coming back out as of July 31st or whenever the $600 ends, flooding the market without business being back at 100%. I'm trying to focus on now and stacking the cash in preparation but time keeps passing faster and faster


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Self employed people might get a deferral and 600$/w might get snapped into 2 or 3 pieces.


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## Filipino858 (Jan 25, 2020)

Daisey77 said:


> I absolutely agree with this. Unfortunately as long as the entertainment aspect is on hold, there will be no back to pre covid times. I know especially my market concerts and sporting events are a HUGE contributing factor to our income. Although there is talk of sports returning, there is no word on when concert tours will resume. Like yourself, I am hugely worried about business come in the beginning of August. For us that have been out there working the entire time, it's nauseating to think of all the drivers who will be coming back out as of July 31st or whenever the $600 ends, flooding the market without business being back at 100%. I'm trying to focus on now and stacking the cash in preparation but time keeps passing faster and faster


Yes you are seeing the big picture here too and potential issue. In San Diego , this is usually a busy time with so many conventions at the convention center, tourists , along with just local San Diegans going to work/wherever. The issue is that none of these big events are occurring. And , as for local San Diegans? A good portion are staying home. A good portion are also on unemployment. When 600 ends for all of us, people will be forced to budget, and I am sure uber rides will be one of many things cut out of their daily lives. Now mix this with many drivers returning on the road, it for sure spells out slow slow slow. Drivers will complain.


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## JWS121799 (Jun 22, 2020)

Young Kim said:


> I often write really long posts, so I'll keep this one relatively short...
> 
> While I am still driving, I admit to a modicum of worry once the July 31st day comes. That is when in the U.S. the $600 Federal assistance is officially stopped. And therein lies the problem. There is a lot of talk about extending it. The issue is that if Congress votes to stop the $600/week, then consumption will drop, and precipitously. I found this to be correlated because when they _started_ the $600/week, I saw a jump in ride requests, here in Chicago, IL USA. I also witnessed a dramatic increase in UberEats, at least in my personal experience.
> 
> ...


WOW! I read your post thin morning and then did a few rides when I was running errands and you were spot on. Some that are using Uber now will not be using it without the extra $600.00. I drove a women home from the grocery store during a $7.00 surge. The ride was about 15-20 blocks right on the bus line. Buses to my knowledge are free right now so to spend $15.00 verse free just does not add up. I hope things get better though have my doubts.


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## Lute Byrt (Feb 20, 2020)

It will be just fine. I no longer drive. Passenger only...

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/06/22...illion-bet-on-a-so-called-mature-unicorn.html


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## Don Trump (Jun 23, 2020)

Young Kim said:


> I often write really long posts, so I'll keep this one relatively short...
> 
> While I am still driving, I admit to a modicum of worry once the July 31st day comes. That is when in the U.S. the $600 Federal assistance is officially stopped. And therein lies the problem. There is a lot of talk about extending it. The issue is that if Congress votes to stop the $600/week, then consumption will drop, and precipitously. I found this to be correlated because when they _started_ the $600/week, I saw a jump in ride requests, here in Chicago, IL USA. I also witnessed a dramatic increase in UberEats, at least in my personal experience.
> 
> ...


Relax, I have your back !


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