# Techcrunch says "Just tip"



## MiddleClassedOut (Jun 11, 2015)

I waded into the fray as well, see if you can figure out who I am...
http://techcrunch.com/2016/04/22/tip-your-uber-driver/
http://techcrunch.com/2016/04/22/tip-your-uber-driver/


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Nice article...even though a lot of drivers are giving up 25-28% in commission and as much as $1.90 in cooking...er I mean BOOKING fees. Big Foober also is nice enough to only have riders pay 30-65 cents per mile in some markets. So yeah...your cheap rump should probably be tipping.


----------



## andaas (May 19, 2015)

It would be so much easier if they just raised the rates by 60-75% in all markets, added a very discreet tipping option to the app (along the lines of a link on the receipt view after a ride that says, "Did your driver provide you with an exceptional experience?" - which upon clicking displays a tipping page that specifically states, "We're glad you enjoyed your Uber experience. We work to keep rates affordable, while paying our drivers enough that tips are NOT necessary. If you would like to add an optional, and additional, gratuity to your fare, you can do that here."

It doesn't have to SCREAM "TIP TIP TIP OMG 15% IS THE NORM TIP TIP TIP"... just make it very subdued, so a driver can easily show a passenger how to access it upon request.

But above everything else, RAISE THE DAMNED RATES SO TIPPING IS TRULY NOT NEEDED!


----------



## Men Van Tran (Mar 10, 2016)

I don't know from where the article writer has the $15-$20/hr number. I am driving a X/XL/Select (no Select pax at all). And I only make $7-$12/hr average before expenses.


----------



## There’s no need to tip (Dec 19, 2015)

What a joker that author is. Read the comment section, that is what the passengers think of that position. Uber is a non tipping platform. Always was and hopefully always will be. Get it through your heads, most of us passengers LIKE this setup. If you don't like Uber's culture, don't drive for them. I don't understand what is so difficult about that.

https://medium.com/@UberPubPolicy/our-approach-to-tipping-aa0074c0fddc#.7ihfcs5ij


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> What a joker that author is. Read the comment section, that is what the passengers think of that position. Uber is a non tipping platform. Always was and hopefully always will be. Get it through your heads, most of us passengers LIKE this setup. If you don't like Uber's culture, don't drive for them. I don't understand what is so difficult about that.
> 
> https://medium.com/@UberPubPolicy/our-approach-to-tipping-aa0074c0fddc#.7ihfcs5ij


This is easy for a passenger to say who doesn't foot all of the operating expenses to drive for Uber. Most of us do enjoy the flexibility of driving for Foober most of the time. However, anybody with business sense sees that you lose money over the long term once the repair and maintenance bills start to increase and you can hardly afford to pay for gas. Spreadsheets and bank accounts don't lie. The rates are way too low for the service that we provide and this statement resonates throughout this site. Who do you know who's in business to LOSE money?


----------



## There’s no need to tip (Dec 19, 2015)

ABC123DEF said:


> This is easy for a passenger to say who doesn't foot all of the operating expenses to drive for Uber. Most of us do enjoy the flexibility of driving for Foober most of the time. However, anybody with business sense sees that you lose money over the long term once the repair and maintenance bills start to increase and you can hardly afford to pay for gas. Spreadsheets and bank accounts don't lie. The rates are way too low for the service that we provide and this statement resonates throughout this site. Who do you know who's in business to LOSE money?


That is EXACTLY my point! You ask who do I know who's in business to LOSE money? Apparently all the Uber drivers on here that complain about this yet continue to use the service. As you said, it is all there laid out in black and white. Don't expect tips with Uber. Calculate your estimated pay and your estimated costs. If pay - costs doesn't equal what you desire, Uber isn't for you. If the platform is not profitable for you, don't participate. Strong-arming the passenger into giving you more money than they are obligated is not the answer. If you want better pay, address the issue with Uber, or better yet, go work for their competition. I understand that everyone wants more money in life. Hell, I want more money myself. However, I don't take it out on people that did not cause the problem nor do I EXPECT them to remedy it.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> That is EXACTLY my point! You ask who do I know who's in business to LOSE money? Apparently all the Uber drivers on here that complain about this yet continue to use the service. As you said, it is all there laid out in black and white. Don't expect tips with Uber. Calculate your estimated pay and your estimated costs. If pay - costs doesn't equal what you desire, Uber isn't for you. If the platform is not profitable for you, don't participate. Strong-arming the passenger into giving you more money than they are obligated is not the answer. If you want better pay, address the issue with Uber, or better yet, go work for their competition. I understand that everyone wants more money in life. Hell, I want more money myself. However, I don't take it out on people that did not cause the problem nor do I EXPECT them to remedy it.


Sooo your mentality and solution to drivers who want a slightly better working situation is, "Don't try to change things. Either suck it up or leave,"? With that logic one could easily make the argument if YOU as a pax have a problem with drivers wanting better maybe YOU should leave.


----------



## There’s no need to tip (Dec 19, 2015)

D Town said:


> Sooo your mentality and solution to drivers who want a slightly better working situation is, "Don't try to change things. Either suck it up or leave,"? With that logic one could easily make the argument if YOU as a pax have a problem with drivers wanting better maybe YOU should leave.


I really don't understand how you don't see the difference. Uber has been and hopefully always will be a non-tipping platform. That philosophy has just been reaffirmed by Uber despite the class action settlements. Passengers understand this. Drivers understand this. The drivers join the platform and continue to use it despite this. So you are telling me, the passenger, who is using the system as it was set up to be used, that *I* should leave? I didn't say don't try to change things, wholesale. I said direct your efforts toward the responsible party, Uber. The passenger is not responsible for paying your contracted fee nor does the passenger set your fee. If the amount you are making is not sufficient for you, take it up with the party you contract with, or don't do business with them in the future. Work for their competitor if you want to make a statement. As I said, I have no issue with people wanting more money and fighting for their rights. I take issue with guilting and shaming the innocent passenger because that is your easiest course of action. Many people on here call *ME *entitled. All I feel I am entitled to is use of the service at the rate offered (and accepted by the driver by his participation in the system) while not being treated like a criminal for doing so. In my opinion, the way the drivers are acting, makes THEM look like the entitled ones.


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> I really don't understand how you don't see the difference. Uber has been and hopefully always will be a non-tipping platform. That philosophy has just been reaffirmed by Uber despite the class action settlements. Passengers understand this. Drivers understand this. The drivers join the platform and continue to use it despite this. So you are telling me, the passenger, who is using the system as it was set up to be used, that *I* should leave? I didn't say don't try to change things, wholesale. I said direct your efforts toward the responsible party, Uber. The passenger is not responsible for paying your contracted fee nor does the passenger set your fee. If the amount you are making is not sufficient for you, take it up with the party you contract with, or don't do business with them in the future. Work for their competitor if you want to make a statement. As I said, I have no issue with people wanting more money and fighting for their rights. I take issue with guilting and shaming the innocent passenger because that is your easiest course of action. Many people on here call *ME *entitled. All I feel I am entitled to is use of the service at the rate offered (and accepted by the driver by his participation in the system) while not being treated like a criminal for doing so. In my opinion, the way the drivers are acting, makes THEM look like the entitled ones.


You also don't understand that a lot of people on this site were roped into sub-prime car loans through Uber when the rates were much higher and there were a lot more rides to go around because the markets weren't saturated. Uber takes about $200.00 per WEEK for these loans plus the driver still has to pay for gas and maintenance as well as run the risk of accidents because of Uber's shady insurance. There is NO ONE we can actually talk to about anything. Everything is done online through email. Some of the larger cities have Uber offices run by kids who have no real-life experience in anything. Some people are TRAPPED in this job because they entered years ago when the landscape was much different.


----------



## There’s no need to tip (Dec 19, 2015)

ABC123DEF said:


> You also don't understand that a lot of people on this site were roped into sub-prime car loans through Uber when the rates were much higher and there were a lot more rides to go around because the markets weren't saturated. Uber takes about $200.00 per WEEK for these loans plus the driver still has to pay for gas and maintenance as well as run the risk of accidents because of Uber's shady insurance. There is NO ONE we can actually talk to about anything. Everything is done online through email. Some of the larger cities have Uber offices run by kids who have no real-life experience in anything. Some people are TRAPPED in this job because they entered years ago when the landscape was much different.


No, I absolutely understand all of that. I'm saying that doesn't make you ENTITLED to someone else, not involved in creating the problem, bailing you out for actions. Some people made poor life decisions. It happens every day. Unless you had it in writing that your rates were guaranteed, what did you think was going to happen? How were you roped in? Did Uber directly make false statements? Did they promise rates were never going to drop? Did they say they would limit the amount of drivers they would contract with? Did they say they would never increase their take of the fare? If so, by all means file some more class actions as they are deserved. I don't believe that is how it happened. Do I think Uber pushed some drivers down that path, absolutely. Did they do so shadily, perhaps. However, that STILL isn't the fault of the passenger. We didn't make any representations to anyone. We didn't make those decisions for those drivers. I know I personally would never have entered into such an arrangement without a written guarantee but now I'm supposed to be responsible for those that did? Also, what percentage of drivers are we talking about here? I don't think this applies to the majority of them.

Everything you said relates to issues between the drivers and Uber, not the passenger. Are we now talking about tips being charity? A bailout of sorts? That is certainly how you are making it sound. Call me cold if you want, because I guess that is what my position is, but that doesn't make me responsible for fixing the mess created by the bad life choices of others.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> I really don't understand how you don't see the difference. Uber has been and hopefully always will be a non-tipping platform. That philosophy has just been reaffirmed by Uber despite the class action settlements. Passengers understand this. Drivers understand this. The drivers join the platform and continue to use it despite this. So you are telling me, the passenger, who is using the system as it was set up to be used, that *I* should leave? I didn't say don't try to change things, wholesale. I said direct your efforts toward the responsible party, Uber. The passenger is not responsible for paying your contracted fee nor does the passenger set your fee. If the amount you are making is not sufficient for you, take it up with the party you contract with, or don't do business with them in the future. Work for their competitor if you want to make a statement. As I said, I have no issue with people wanting more money and fighting for their rights. I take issue with guilting and shaming the innocent passenger because that is your easiest course of action. Many people on here call *ME *entitled. All I feel I am entitled to is use of the service at the rate offered (and accepted by the driver by his participation in the system) while not being treated like a criminal for doing so. In my opinion, the way the drivers are acting, makes THEM look like the entitled ones.


Whose taking it out on the passengers? I haven't heard of any lawsuits against pax for refusing to tip. The fight IS with Uber and not guilting the pax? Please. What guilt? Its guilting to put up a sign that says "tipping not included"? You make it sound as if any effort by drivers to get even a few extra dollars is some sort of attack on pax. Do you make the same argument of any other tipped service people and demand that they go to their employer for better pay instead of expecting tips? I'm betting not. As I said, no one is twisting your arm. If you don't want to tip don't but seeing as how this is mostly about the drivers relationship with a so called technology company whose reported function is to match driver with clients I think its dang relevant that drivers have major say in how we're compensated for the service WE provide and how WE choose to be compensated.

Do you also go to your local businesses and demand that the employees not get extra benefits because it'll translate into slightly higher costs for you and argue that, "You took the job at one compensation level. Now take it or leave."?


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> No, I absolutely understand all of that. I'm saying that doesn't make you ENTITLED to someone else, not involved in creating the problem, bailing you out for actions. Some people made poor life decisions. It happens every day. Unless you had it in writing that your rates were guaranteed, what did you think was going to happen? How were you roped in? Did Uber directly make false statements? Did they promise rates were never going to drop? Did they say they would limit the amount of drivers they would contract with? Did they say they would never increase their take of the fare? If so, by all means file some more class actions as they are deserved. I don't believe that is how it happened. Do I think Uber pushed some drivers down that path, absolutely. Did they do so shadily, perhaps. However, that STILL isn't the fault of the passenger. We didn't make any representations to anyone. We didn't make those decisions for those drivers. I know I personally would never have entered into such an arrangement without a written guarantee but now I'm supposed to be responsible for those that did? Also, what percentage of drivers are we talking about here? I don't think this applies to the majority of them.
> 
> Everything you said relates to issues between the drivers and Uber, not the passenger. Are we now talking about tips being charity? A bailout of sorts? That is certainly how you are making it sound. Call me cold if you want, because I guess that is what my position is, but that doesn't make me responsible for fixing the mess created by the bad life choices of others.


You're not responsible for anything. I don't even know how this is even about passengers. If they want to tip, fine...if they don't want to tip...fine, too. Those that do tip know (and those that don't for that matter) know they're getting a steal of a value in pickup time and service for what they're paying. Are all drivers top-notch or even good? No. Are the vast majority of drivers functional to pretty close to outstanding? YES.

This about unethical and perhaps illegal treatment by a company that calls the drivers "partners". Everything works in the favor for these people. Those of us that were onboarded the first year Uber came into our respective markets helped to build their so-called brand and riders have very little to nothing to show for it. I am a LOT worse off now that I was the year I got involved with these people. When I'm able to get out, I will yell to the ends of the earth how bad these people are and I will never suggest that anybody I know drive for or waste their time or resources being involved with Uber. Uber doesn't care about driver loyalty and will crash and burn once they've eventually run out of new drivers. They'd better hurry up with those self-driving cars.


----------



## There’s no need to tip (Dec 19, 2015)

D Town said:


> Whose taking it out on the passengers? I haven't heard of any lawsuits against pax for refusing to tip. The fight IS with Uber and not guilting the pax? Please. What guilt? Its guilting to put up a sign that says "tipping not included"? You make it sound as if any effort by drivers to get even a few extra dollars is some sort of attack on pax. Do you make the same argument of any other tipped service people and demand that they go to their employer for better pay instead of expecting tips? I'm betting not. As I said, no one is twisting your arm. If you don't want to tip don't but seeing as how this is mostly about the drivers relationship with a so called technology company whose reported function is to match driver with clients I think its dang relevant that drivers have major say in how we're compensated for the service WE provide and how WE choose to be compensated.
> 
> Do you also go to your local businesses and demand that the employees not get extra benefits because it'll translate into slightly higher costs for you and argue that, "You took the job at one compensation level. Now take it or leave."?


I am not sure of your specific position on here, but "**** the passenger" seems to be the general consensus. Give them a 1 if they don't tip no matter if they were timely, clean, and otherwise respectful. They are cheap bastards if they don't want to give me more money, etc... Read around this board and follow the replies to my posts and you will see what I am talking about. You want to put up a sign, fine. You want to have a tip jar, fine. However, understand that in Uber's culture, and in the mind of the passengers, "stiffing" your Uber driver is NOT the same as a waitress. Perhaps YOU really accept the "not necessary but appreciated" mentality, many of your colleagues on here do not. As to drivers having a say in how they are compensated, I agree 100%. That "say", however, should be between you and Uber though. Your say is I want x amount and Uber agreeing or not. The only leverage drivers have against Uber is their availability. As long as you (or others) keep that app on, Uber really has no incentive to care.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> I am not sure of your specific position on here, but "&%[email protected]!* the passenger" seems to be the general consensus. Give them a 1 if they don't tip no matter if they were timely, clean, and otherwise respectful. They are cheap bastards if they don't want to give me more money, etc... Read around this board and follow the replies to my posts and you will see what I am talking about. You want to put up a sign, fine. You want to have a tip jar, fine. However, understand that in Uber's culture, and in the mind of the passengers, "stiffing" your Uber driver is NOT the same as a waitress. Perhaps YOU really accept the "not necessary but appreciated" mentality, many of your colleagues on here do not. As to drivers having a say in how they are compensated, I agree 100%. That "say", however, should be between you and Uber though. Your say is I want x amount and Uber agreeing or not. The only leverage drivers have against Uber is their availability. As long as you (or others) keep that app on, Uber really has no incentive to care.


Passenger ratings don't mean a dang thing when it comes to Uber and drivers know it. Its a passive aggressive salve. An illusion that it matters. Anyone who actually figures in tips to make or break their night driving is beyond silly and needs to find something else to do - as I really do suggest ALL drivers do - HOWEVER as "ABC123DEF, post: 1042219, member: 17042" spelled out you KNOW you're getting a dirt cheap ride and saving a crap ton of time and money and you won't toss a few dollars the way of the driver who made it possible because of some so called "culture"? That's a piss poor excuse in my book. Your whole argument from the start was that you don't want tips at ALL as if its some sort of attack on the pax. That is a bizarre and flawed way of thinking.


----------



## Taxi Driver in Arizona (Mar 18, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> What a joker that author is. Read the comment section, that is what the passengers think of that position. Uber is a non tipping platform. Always was and hopefully always will be. Get it through your heads, most of us passengers LIKE this setup. If you don't like Uber's culture, don't drive for them. I don't understand what is so difficult about that.
> 
> https://medium.com/@UberPubPolicy/our-approach-to-tipping-aa0074c0fddc#.7ihfcs5ij


I agree with you. I don't like Uber's position, so I'll never drive for them. The other drivers here who want tips should stop driving for Uber and delete the app.


----------



## There’s no need to tip (Dec 19, 2015)

D Town said:


> Passenger ratings don't mean a dang thing when it comes to Uber and drivers know it. Its a passive aggressive salve. An illusion that it matters. Anyone who actually figures in tips to make or break their night driving is beyond silly and needs to find something else to do - as I really do suggest ALL drivers do - HOWEVER as "ABC123DEF, post: 1042219, member: 17042" spelled out you KNOW you're getting a dirt cheap ride and saving a crap ton of time and money and you won't toss a few dollars the way of the driver who made it possible because of some so called "culture"? That's a piss poor excuse in my book. Your whole argument from the start was that you don't want tips at ALL as if its some sort of attack on the pax. That is a bizarre and flawed way of thinking.


Passenger ratings DO mean something (as of right now). Especially considering some of the comments I have read on here with regard to "I would never pick up a passenger lower than a 4.8 and neither should you. Let's group together and force these passengers to give us tips or we won't pick them up anymore." I am not trying to lump you in with the rest, I am just letting you know the majority mentality I have seen on here with respect to the issue. You say it has nothing to do with the passenger, and I agree that it shouldn't. The reality is, many of the drivers WANT and are trying to make it, involve the passenger. As to getting a cheap ride, yes I am. That is one of the reasons I use Uber but to be honest, I would use it anyway if it were a little more expensive. Does that mean that I am obligated to pay more? Does this factor in anywhere else in life? Just because you WOULD pay more for a service if it were more expensive you are somehow OBLIGATED to pay more? I'm not saying don't tip drivers EVER. I'm not saying they can never EARN a tip. I am saying, giving a tip, as a cultural obligation, doesn't exist with Uber. I am not culturally obligated to give one yet the drivers act as if I am in the wrong for using the system as it is intended.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> Passenger ratings DO mean something (as of right now). Especially considering some of the comments I have read on here with regard to "I would never pick up a passenger lower than a 4.8 and neither should you. Let's group together and force these passengers to give us tips or we won't pick them up anymore." I am not trying to lump you in with the rest, I am just letting you know the majority mentality I have seen on here with respect to the issue. You say it has nothing to do with the passenger, and I agree that it shouldn't. The reality is, many of the drivers WANT and are trying to make it, involve the passenger. As to getting a cheap ride, yes I am. That is one of the reasons I use Uber but to be honest, I would use it anyway if it were a little more expensive. Does that mean that I am obligated to pay more? Does this factor in anywhere else in life? Just because you WOULD pay more for a service if it were more expensive you are somehow OBLIGATED to pay more? I'm not saying don't tip drivers EVER. I'm not saying they can never EARN a tip. I am saying, giving a tip, as a cultural obligation, doesn't exist with Uber. I am not culturally obligated to give one yet the drivers act as if I am in the wrong for using the system as it is intended.


You can find about as many drivers who also say, "I don't care about the passenger rating," so no it really doesn't. There are always desperate drivers out there that will pick you up so don't worry about that. And you want to argue about "culture" then you're still off. Ordering a car to take someone from one place to another has been around about as long as the automobile. The only thing Uber did was change the payment method and how you call the car and you want to make it out as a completely different industry? Do explain that one.

As for being obligated to pay more I can only speak to how my own mind works. If I know someone is getting a raw deal on pay while everyone else involved is receiving a generous break then yes I DO feel compelled to toss a little extra his way. Why not? I STILL come out ahead and I did a little something for a struggling individual whose doing a good job. Note I said he had to be doing a GOOD job. True, it is a band-aide over the real problem of rates being too low but why is that such a repulsive or abhorrent concept?


----------



## There’s no need to tip (Dec 19, 2015)

D Town said:


> You can find about as many drivers who also say, "I don't care about the passenger rating," so no it really doesn't. There are always desperate drivers out there that will pick you up so don't worry about that. And you want to argue about "culture" then you're still off. Ordering a car to take someone from one place to another has been around about as long as the automobile. The only thing Uber did was change the payment method and how you call the car and you want to make it out as a completely different industry? Do explain that one.
> 
> As for being obligated to pay more I can only speak to how my own mind works. If I know someone is getting a raw deal on pay while everyone else involved is receiving a generous break then yes I DO feel compelled to toss a little extra his way. Why not? I STILL come out ahead and I did a little something for a struggling individual whose doing a good job. Note I said he had to be doing a GOOD job. True, it is a band-aide over the real problem of rates being too low but why is that such a repulsive or abhorrent concept?


I appreciate your position and your respectful responses. I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this. Yes, driving culture in this country has been tip based. However, Uber came on the scene and said this is not how WE are going to work. Drivers had a choice, drive for Uber under those terms, or don't. Everyone (drivers included) had the understanding that THIS service was going to be cashless and non-tip based. Now that the rates got slashed, the drivers no longer want to accept that. That is their prerogative. They are free to end their participation at any time. As for your second point, just because I am getting a good rate doesn't OBLIGATE me to provide a "tip" (which is really just a replacement wage in essence). To me, a "good job" is just doing the job. Perhaps our definitions are different. If a driver were to go above and beyond the call of duty for me I would have no issue providing a GRATUITY. I will not, however, feel obligated to give extra money for someone just getting me from point A to point B. As I said earlier, I am not a fussy passenger. I am timely, I always enter my address, I always provide the route I want upfront if I have a preference, and I don't expect anything other than getting to my destination. To me, that level of service is what I already paid for. I don't feel the need to pay more for it "just to be nice." That is charity. While I am not opposed to charity, I CHOOSE to provide it in my own ways to my own causes. This just doesn't happen to be one of them. If you choose to do so, I don't fault you, or anyone else for that matter.


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

I guess most of us are just bitter because Uber seems to continue to tip themselves by continually increasing their commission and safe rider/booking fees...all while our cut becomes less and less. A lot of us believed in and invested a fair amount of money into Uber when it first came onto the scene. We just need a way to recoup some of our losses. I live in a medium-sized market and there can be as much as an hour before the next ride that results in a $3.16 cut comes my way.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> I appreciate your position and your respectful responses. I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this. Yes, driving culture in this country has been tip based. However, Uber came on the scene and said this is not how WE are going to work. Drivers had a choice, drive for Uber under those terms, or don't. Everyone (drivers included) had the understanding that THIS service was going to be cashless and non-tip based. Now that the rates got slashed, the drivers no longer want to accept that. That is their prerogative. They are free to end their participation at any time. As for your second point, just because I am getting a good rate doesn't OBLIGATE me to provide a "tip" (which is really just a replacement wage in essence). To me, a "good job" is just doing the job. Perhaps our definitions are different. If a driver were to go above and beyond the call of duty for me I would have no issue providing a GRATUITY. I will not, however, feel obligated to give extra money for someone just getting me from point A to point B. As I said earlier, I am not a fussy passenger. I am timely, I always enter my address, I always provide the route I want upfront if I have a preference, and I don't expect anything other than getting to my destination. To me, that level of service is what I already paid for. I don't feel the need to pay more for it "just to be nice." That is charity. While I am not opposed to charity, I CHOOSE to provide it in my own ways to my own causes. This just doesn't happen to be one of them. If you choose to do so, I don't fault you, or anyone else for that matter.


Uber coming onto the scene and saying, "there is no need to tip," was fine when the rate of pay was high enough that one COULD reasonably argue that might be the case however AFTER having people sign on at one rate and invest so much into it they continually slashed the rates to the point that its no longer profitable to drive and then still insist that no one should tip - unless you're Uber taxi that is. Glad you're not fussy but you're still saving a nice chunk of change taking an Uber. I don't understand why someone WOULDN'T feel compelled to share a little of the windfall they just received with the person who made it happen. You STILL come out ahead. You say you feel you already paid for a ride from point A to point B however at no time in history have you gotten that ride for so cheap a rate. The only reason prices are this low is because Uber found a way to offload most of the costs of doing business onto drivers and is also trying to drive out all competition with a race to the bottom on the backs of drivers. I can't fathom thinking $0.15 a mile as being a reasonable amount in anyone's mind.


----------



## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> That is EXACTLY my point! You ask who do I know who's in business to LOSE money? Apparently all the Uber drivers on here that complain about this yet continue to use the service. As you said, it is all there laid out in black and white. Don't expect tips with Uber. Calculate your estimated pay and your estimated costs. If pay - costs doesn't equal what you desire, Uber isn't for you. If the platform is not profitable for you, don't participate. Strong-arming the passenger into giving you more money than they are obligated is not the answer. If you want better pay, address the issue with Uber, or better yet, go work for their competition. I understand that everyone wants more money in life. Hell, I want more money myself. However, I don't take it out on people that did not cause the problem nor do I EXPECT them to remedy it.


But it's ok for uber to strong arm the drivers into taking LESS money?

Reverse it. If YOU don't like the rate required for it to make sense to the driver, drive your own piece of crap.

And you ARE taking it out on the drivers for fighting for their pay, be it higher fares or tips.

You are a double talker, that's all.


----------



## There’s no need to tip (Dec 19, 2015)

D Town said:


> I don't understand why someone WOULDN'T feel compelled to share a little of the windfall they just received with the person who made it happen. You STILL come out ahead. You say you feel you already paid for a ride from point A to point B however at no time in history have you gotten that ride for so cheap a rate. The only reason prices are this low is because Uber found a way to offload most of the costs of doing business onto drivers and is also trying to drive out all competition with a race to the bottom on the backs of drivers. I can't fathom thinking $0.15 a mile as being a reasonable amount in anyone's mind.


I explained it in my last post. Just because the set price of something is cheap doesn't make me feel OBLIGATED to hand out money to anyone as a result. It is the same with any other business or product. One of the reasons Walmart has such cheap prices is because their workers are paid a low wage. I buy products from there sometimes because they are cheap and they serve my purpose. I don't feel obligated to tip the guy at the register as a result. I know, I know, he doesn't have expenses to pay working at Walmart. I get it. But Walmart has a set profit margin and if it means not paying the employee more to keep the price low that is what they will do. The result is the same. The worker suffers, the customer gains. If you only shop at places that pay workers really high wages, and sell products that come from places where people are paid high wages, good for you. You are a better person than I. I'm not so sure how true that is though.

Do you own a smartphone? At least with Apple, they have been known to have children working in the factories and the workers are worked so hard and are so stressed that many commit suicide. They have hung suicide nets up at some factories as a result. I'm sure it isn't just with Apple either. Do you feel obligated to throw a little in that direction? The bottom line is, I'm using a service. That service quotes me a price. I don't feel the need to provide anyone with anything additional because the price is lower than ever before. I just don't understand a feeling of obligation. That is all I'm saying.



GooberX said:


> But it's ok for uber to strong arm the drivers into taking LESS money?
> 
> Reverse it. If YOU don't like the rate required for it to make sense to the driver, drive your own piece of crap.
> 
> ...


Wow, you really don't get it do you. Have you read a single thing I have written? Where did I ever say it is ok for Uber to strong arm the drivers into taking less money? I actually said the exact opposite. I also said if the drivers don't like it they don't have to work for Uber. I also said that the drivers are better served focusing their efforts on getting Uber to raise the rates instead of strong-arming the customers instead. I never said I wouldn't pay a higher rate if Uber had one. I said I am not going to volunteer to pay anything additional that I don't have to. I will pay the service rate, no more, no less. There is nothing to reverse here. I am happy with the rate. I pay the rate and go on my way. The drivers are the ones unhappy with that so why is it that I am walking away and not the driver? I am not taking anything out on anyone. I am using a service as it is supposed to be used. No more, no less. I don't see where there is any double talk here.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> I explained it in my last post. Just because the set price of something is cheap doesn't make me feel OBLIGATED to hand out money to anyone as a result. It is the same with any other business or product. One of the reasons Walmart has such cheap prices is because their workers are paid a low wage. I buy products from there sometimes because they are cheap and they serve my purpose. I don't feel obligated to tip the guy at the register as a result. I know, I know, he doesn't have expenses to pay working at Walmart. I get it. But Walmart has a set profit margin and if it means not paying the employee more to keep the price low that is what they will do. The result is the same. The worker suffers, the customer gains. If you only shop at places that pay workers really high wages, and sell products that come from places where people are paid high wages, good for you. You are a better person than I. I'm not so sure how true that is though.
> 
> Do you own a smartphone? At least with Apple, they have been known to have children working in the factories and the workers are worked so hard and are so stressed that many commit suicide. They have hung suicide nets up at some factories as a result. I'm sure it isn't just with Apple either. Do you feel obligated to throw a little in that direction? The bottom line is, I'm using a service. That service quotes me a price. I don't feel the need to provide anyone with anything additional because the price is lower than ever before. I just don't understand a feeling of obligation. That is all I'm saying.


To be honest I avoid shopping at Walmart because of many of their business practices. I'll pay more to shop elsewhere if there is a choice. Yeah, Walmart DOES subsidize a chunk of their prices off the backs of not paying their workers enough - though even they have recognized how unsustainable that is and are raising pay - HOWEVER its NEVER been so low that it actually COSTS their workers money to come to work. Costco and Aldi are two places that DON'T screw their workers and have low prices. I do a lot more shopping with them. I also don't own any Apple products though that has more to do with the fact that they want too much control over my info than the appalling conditions of their foreign contractors.

Keeping it in THIS country, I can't think of another legitimate industry off the top of my head that is so tight fisted with the money that it makes its workers cannibalize their own meager resources just to keep things limping along. Its modern day share cropping.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> It has nothing to do with courtesy. No one really "tips" their servers etc... out of courtesy or a job well done. We do it because it has become the defacto wage. People are so brainwashed that they even feel guilty not tipping when they receive BAD service as they don't want to look like a "cheap asshole." Tipping is so far out of line in this country and I applaud Uber for not playing into that. You are right, these other industries have tipping. That is the custom. For Uber, it has been clear from the start, it is NOT the custom. Why do they have to be equated?


I've seen evidence to back that people in general DON'T tip on the basis of service and that HAS twisted the practice. I personally do. Everyone who serves me ALWAYS receives a tip. If the service is average 15% - 20%. Great service 25% - 30%. Crap service gets 2 cents. That way they know its not because I forgot its so they know its what I thought of their service. If you wanted to argue for the abolishment of tipping in favor of paying a flat wage to service people I would not be opposed. What I AM opposed to is constantly slashing the income of people who can least afford it and THEN telling people NOT to even THINK of giving them a penny in cash.



There's no need to tip said:


> I applaud you then for your shopping choices. At least you are willing to put your money where your mouth is. I respect that. However, once again I must emphasize, if it was costing employees at Walmart money to work there, they would no longer work there. You mention modern day share cropping, once again this is hyperbole. Uber is not MAKING anyone do anything. It is not like Uber is the be all end all of the employment world. There are many other avenues to make money. Just because the drivers don't fancy that, doesn't mean there are no alternatives. No one is forcing anyone to stay in this predatory system. That still doesn't make the system right though but let's not act like these are indentured servants, because they aren't.


Hyperbole? Yeah, a little however you can't deny the similarities. Rope the poor and desperate into contracts with pie in the sky ideas of earnings and economic freedom, lock them in with a contract - Uber Xchange leasing, and then the land owner/Uber steadily takes a larger and larger share of the profits without having to do any of the actual work to earn it. People cannibalize what resources they have just to stay afloat.

WHY don't they leave? Not how human psychology works, I'm afraid, and businessmen know this. Once people buy into an idea whole heartedly and invest a massive amount of time, money, and effort many will be loathed to abandon the venture. Its called the sunk-cost fallacy. Why do you think Uber offers leases, pay cards, and gas cards? The more of your life they can get wrapped up in the more abuse you'll take because in your mind there is no alternative.


----------



## There’s no need to tip (Dec 19, 2015)

Demon said:


> He hasn't applauded the company at all. he's said very simply, if a driver doesn't like the pay they get, they should stop driving or force Uber to make changes, stop taking it out on the customer.
> 
> You're the one feeding Uber & causing the problem.


There is no point. Some people can only hear what they want to hear. If it doesn't fit their narrative, they twist it so that it does. Unfortunately there are too many drivers like him, as opposed to reasonable people, like *D Town. *Perhaps if more drivers were like D Town, the passengers would care more about the situation.


----------



## Uberbrethren (Feb 25, 2016)

ABC123DEF said:


> I guess most of us are just bitter because Uber seems to continue to tip themselves by continually increasing their commission and safe rider/booking fees...all while our cut becomes less and less. A lot of us believed in and invested a fair amount of money into Uber when it first came onto the scene. We just need a way to recoup some of our losses. I live in a medium-sized market and there can be as much as an hour before the next ride that results in a $3.16 cut comes my way.


They keep the passenger fare consistently below the competition and their margins where they like them. It's tough for the drivers.


----------



## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> I explained it in my last post. Just because the set price of something is cheap doesn't make me feel OBLIGATED to hand out money to anyone as a result. It is the same with any other business or product. One of the reasons Walmart has such cheap prices is because their workers are paid a low wage. I buy products from there sometimes because they are cheap and they serve my purpose. I don't feel obligated to tip the guy at the register as a result. I know, I know, he doesn't have expenses to pay working at Walmart. I get it. But Walmart has a set profit margin and if it means not paying the employee more to keep the price low that is what they will do. The result is the same. The worker suffers, the customer gains. If you only shop at places that pay workers really high wages, and sell products that come from places where people are paid high wages, good for you. You are a better person than I. I'm not so sure how true that is though.
> 
> Do you own a smartphone? At least with Apple, they have been known to have children working in the factories and the workers are worked so hard and are so stressed that many commit suicide. They have hung suicide nets up at some factories as a result. I'm sure it isn't just with Apple either. Do you feel obligated to throw a little in that direction? The bottom line is, I'm using a service. That service quotes me a price. I don't feel the need to provide anyone with anything additional because the price is lower than ever before. I just don't understand a feeling of obligation. That is all I'm saying.
> 
> Wow, you really don't get it do you. Have you read a single thing I have written? Where did I ever say it is ok for Uber to strong arm the drivers into taking less money? I actually said the exact opposite. I also said if the drivers don't like it they don't have to work for Uber. I also said that the drivers are better served focusing their efforts on getting Uber to raise the rates instead of strong-arming the customers instead. I never said I wouldn't pay a higher rate if Uber had one. I said I am not going to volunteer to pay anything additional that I don't have to. I will pay the service rate, no more, no less. There is nothing to reverse here. I am happy with the rate. I pay the rate and go on my way. The drivers are the ones unhappy with that so why is it that I am walking away and not the driver? I am not taking anything out on anyone. I am using a service as it is supposed to be used. No more, no less. I don't see where there is any double talk here.


People have signed leases only to have uber change everything. They CAN'T walk away.

That is despicable, indefensible, and the drivers subject to that have every right to do whatever they want, contrary to your diatribe.

If you committed to 50 rides at 9o cents per mile and then Uber changed the price on you after the fact, you'd be squealing.

Frankly, your are full of it just for coming on a drivers forum to stir the pot.

Double talk is everywhere, you are just in denial.

What's the difference between tipping a couple bucks or raising the rate? Nothing. You pay for it either way.


----------



## Demon (Dec 6, 2014)

GooberX said:


> People have signed leases only to have uber change everything. They CAN'T walk away.
> 
> That is despicable, indefensible, and the drivers subject to that have every right to do whatever they want, contrary to your diatribe.
> 
> ...


If there's no difference why not go after Uber who actually controls the rate?


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

GooberX said:


> People have signed leases only to have uber change everything. They CAN'T walk away.
> 
> That is despicable, indefensible, and the drivers subject to that have every right to do whatever they want, contrary to your diatribe.
> 
> ...


I don't believe he IS just trying to stir the pot. I've run across more than a few trolls and what's universally applicable to trolls is they aren't willing to listen to anything you have to say or use any sort of reason. He seems open to alternative ways of thinking. Dialogue is possible and necessary. Don't make the same mistake I've seen so many cab drivers make.


----------



## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

D Town said:


> I don't believe he IS just trying to stir the pot. I've run across more than a few trolls and what's universally applicable to trolls is they aren't willing to listen to anything you have to say or use any sort of reason. He seems open to alternative ways of thinking. Dialogue is possible and necessary. Don't make the same mistake I've seen so many cab drivers make.


First of all, I don't drive UberX, therefore I'm not blinded to the truth. He, as a passenger, is biased.

The drivers ARE Going after Uber. They are just using passengers to make their point.

He doesn't like it. Too bad. That's what the service IS at the moment.

Use it or don't.

His words.


----------



## Backdash (Jan 28, 2015)

This is all BS.
Some people don't want to tip for whatever reason that's their choice.
Some people do want to tip for whatever reason that's their choice.

The point is Uber should not influence customers one way or the other. Tipping is between the customer and the provider.
After all if its made convenient by Uber not to tip then at the same time Uber is making it inconvenient for those who do wish tip.

Arguing the pros and cons of tipping is like arguing the pros and cons of saying thank you to to someone you pay for a haircut. The dam barber is getting paid why do you need to thank him for doing his job? The fact is you don't need to thank him if you choose not to. If somebody thinks less of you for not thanking him there is no reason on earth why it should or would matter to you.

Tip or don't tip. Continually trying to explain or justify either position only weakens one argument.

Some people do, some don't, pretty freakin simple.


----------



## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

Backdash said:


> This is all BS.
> Some people don't want to tip for whatever reason that's their choice.
> Some people do want to tip for whatever reason that's their choice.
> 
> ...


Have you ever worked in the restaurant industry?

Your opinion is just that, an opinion, but they get compensated with tip being part of pay.

I don't care about tips.

Just raise the damn rate to $3 base, $2 per mile, and 30 cents per minute.

Uber sucks and so do passengers that ride uberX.


----------



## There’s no need to tip (Dec 19, 2015)

GooberX said:


> If you committed to 50 rides at 9o cents per mile and then Uber changed the price on you after the fact, you'd be squealing.
> 
> What's the difference between tipping a couple bucks or raising the rate? Nothing. You pay for it either way.


So as I said before, you are insinuating that the drivers had a CONTRACT with Uber for x rides at x cents per mile. Obviously that isn't the case as even they couldn't weasel out of paying in that situation. To my understanding there was never any guarantee that rates and percentages would remain the same. If I am wrong, please let me know. So the drivers took a huge risk, on nothing but faith, hoping they wouldn't get screwed? Not very good business savvy if you ask me. It is like all these housewives signing up for these online makeup companies and buying thousands of dollars worth of this crap and inviting you over to their place for a "makeup party" and guilting you into buying this overpriced crap to make up for their dumb business mistake. Now you want the passengers to feel bad about the drivers' ill-informed life choices? This is the problem I have right here. It is the mentality that since YOU (drivers) got swindled you are therefore ENTITLED to have others clean up your mess. As I said earlier, perhaps more passengers would care if this wasn't the attitude many of you have taken. Your anger and hatred should be directed at Uber where it belongs. As for the difference between tipping and raising the rate, there are several differences I won't go into detail as I've said it all before. I will pay the rate, no more no less. If you had it your way, I would have been paying more for this service from the start when I had no personal obligation to do so. If there comes a time when the rate gets raised (who knows, might not happen) I am more than happy to make a decision if the service is still worth using (most likely will be). Paying someone an extra wage and calling it a tip is a practice I would be happy to get away from which is why many of us like Uber.



GooberX said:


> They are just using passengers to make their point.
> 
> He doesn't like it. Too bad. That's what the service IS at the moment.
> 
> ...


Exactly the problem right here. It is THIS mentality that turns off so many passengers to your cause. We WILL continue to use the service as we don't have a problem with it. You want to give us 1, so be it. As I mentioned if the problem becomes widespread Uber will adjust to deal with it. In the meantime, you make everyone hostile to your position. I'm not going to mention a specific group as I don't want to get political, but I will say this is similar to the situation where one particular group stands in the middle of the interstate causing huge traffic jams and pissing everyone off. They are not winning support for their cause.



GooberX said:


> Just raise the damn rate to $3 base, $2 per mile, and 30 cents per minute.


If this is the rate the market demands, I have no problem with it. As of right now, the market is demanding lower so that is what I will pay. I'd much rather a higher rate than deal with tipping nonsense.



Backdash said:


> Some people don't want to tip for whatever reason that's their choice.
> Some people do want to tip for whatever reason that's their choice.
> 
> The point is Uber should not influence customers one way or the other. Tipping is between the customer and the provider.
> ...


I get what you are trying to say but disagree for 1 main reason. Had Uber not intervened and took such a hard stance that there is no tip required when using their service we ALL know how it would end. You would be in an Uber, you would go to get out without tipping, your friend or associate would go "hey dude, you aren't going to tip that guy?" and you will look like an asshole when there really is no reason you should. How does it happen now WITH Uber's involvement? EXACTLY the way it should. If you WANT to tip, pull out a fiver and be on your way. If you don't, your friend or associate doesn't say shit about it because they know it ACTUALLY is optional with Uber. It is all about the mentality of what a tip has become in this country. As I mentioned it is looked at as a replacement wage, an obligation, and not something you culturally can or can't decide to do. With Uber, as they intended, that is no longer the case. THIS end result is what I applaud. Not any of their other business practices as I have been accused of approving of. Yes, I understand that with an electronic tipping option your decision will most likely not be visible to a friend, but what I am saying is the thought and mentality behind it. Some people like me wouldn't have a problem clicking that 0 button unless I felt a gratuity is called for. Other people have been so indoctrinated to tip culture that they would still feel like they were obligated.


----------



## ATX 22 (Jun 17, 2015)

@There's no need to tip
You are an entitled cheapskate who is enjoying the current low rates. This is unsustainable in the long run. Once Uber has shot themselves in the foot enough times, they will go the way of napster and red swoosh, and Travis will be headed to prison where he belongs. You'll be back on the bus or on foot where you obviously belong.


----------



## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> So as I said before, you are insinuating that the drivers had a CONTRACT with Uber for x rides at x cents per mile. Obviously that isn't the case as even they couldn't weasel out of paying in that situation. To my understanding there was never any guarantee that rates and percentages would remain the same. If I am wrong, please let me know. So the drivers took a huge risk, on nothing but faith, hoping they wouldn't get screwed? Not very good business savvy if you ask me. It is like all these housewives signing up for these online makeup companies and buying thousands of dollars worth of this crap and inviting you over to their place for a "makeup party" and guilting you into buying this overpriced crap to make up for their dumb business mistake. Now you want the passengers to feel bad about the drivers' ill-informed life choices? This is the problem I have right here. It is the mentality that since YOU (drivers) got swindled you are therefore ENTITLED to have others clean up your mess. As I said earlier, perhaps more passengers would care if this wasn't the attitude many of you have taken. Your anger and hatred should be directed at Uber where it belongs. As for the difference between tipping and raising the rate, there are several differences I won't go into detail as I've said it all before. I will pay the rate, no more no less. If you had it your way, I would have been paying more for this service from the start when I had no personal obligation to do so. If there comes a time when the rate gets raised (who knows, might not happen) I am more than happy to make a decision if the service is still worth using (most likely will be). Paying someone an extra wage and calling it a tip is a practice I would be happy to get away from which is why many of us like Uber.
> 
> Exactly the problem right here. It is THIS mentality that turns off so many passengers to your cause. We WILL continue to use the service as we don't have a problem with it. You want to give us 1, so be it. As I mentioned if the problem becomes widespread Uber will adjust to deal with it. In the meantime, you make everyone hostile to your position. I'm not going to mention a specific group as I don't want to get political, but I will say this is similar to the situation where one particular group stands in the middle of the interstate causing huge traffic jams and pissing everyone off. They are not winning support for their cause.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass what your problem is.

If you don't like what the service is now, and what the drivers attitude is, don't use it.

Go drive your own car and do what you want.

Drivers have every right to act as they deem fit to combat Uber's, and your, indifference.

Uber created this and drivers will fight as they see fit.

I'm sorry your entitled ass is inconvenienced.

Too damn bad.


----------



## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

D Town said:


> I don't believe he IS just trying to stir the pot. I've run across more than a few trolls and what's universally applicable to trolls is they aren't willing to listen to anything you have to say or use any sort of reason. He seems open to alternative ways of thinking. Dialogue is possible and necessary. Don't make the same mistake I've seen so many cab drivers make.


He is a callous, entitled individual who is indifferent to the plight of a group of people that got suckered by Uber, are given little recourse by the politicians, and therefore have resorted to upsetting the passengers.

He feels inconvenienced, and that is too damned bad.

Don't use the service.

In a sense that is what the drivers want, until they get Uber's attention.

It'll get worse, so he better plan on using a taxi.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

GooberX said:


> He is a callous, entitled individual who is indifferent to the plight of a group of people that got suckered by Uber, are given little recourse by the politicians, and therefore have resorted to upsetting the passengers.
> 
> He feels inconvenienced, and that is too damned bad.
> 
> ...


Customers are selfish. That is no news flash however we don't get the general public on our side by looking and acting like angry, screaming lunatics. All we'll do is turn them completely off to the message we're trying to send and send them running the opposite direction.


----------



## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

D Town said:


> Customers are selfish. That is no news flash however we don't get the general public on our side by looking and acting like angry, screaming lunatics. All we'll do is turn them completely off to the message we're trying to send and send them running the opposite direction.


Drivers don't need the general public on their side.

They need the regulators on their side.

Having operators who can't afford to maintain their vehicle doing commercial work is a recipe for disaster.

The "public" and their quest for cheap pricing driven by slave labor has done a good job of destroying the country.

I don't care about what he/they like(s) to pay or doesn't like to pay.


----------



## bluedogz (Sep 12, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> However, understand that in Uber's culture, and in the mind of the passengers, "stiffing" your Uber driver is NOT the same as a waitress.
> 
> However, I don't take it out on people that did not cause the problem nor do I EXPECT them to remedy it.


Boy, I'd hate to be your barber/mailman/restaurant server/barista.

I'm curious where you got how anyone "expects" passengers to "remedy" anything. In America overall, we are a tipping culture. Call it what you will, but in certain occupations, tips are the order of the day-personal transportation is one of those. I'm also curious why you are so adamant against the very concept of drivers expecting to be tipped-whether this extra compensation comes in the form of a tip, a fare increase, or any other option, it's the same thing. The passengers are going to pay it one way or the other. Frankly, tipping the driver gives them the freedom to choose what is appropriate for them, while demanding a fare increase or other costs places an "expectation"on the passenger that they can't escape.


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

I don't think anybody on here really annoys or harasses passengers. Most of us don't even want them to talk to us and we just want to get them in and out as soon as possible. Just remember...no one should be paying bus/subway rates for door to door service in somebody's personal vehicle...tip or not. I'm waiting for the right opportunity to come along back in the W-2 world and it will be no more Uber as a driver for me. You'd better believe I'll tip $5-10 every time I take an Uber. You never know if that could mean the difference in somebody being able to drive a few more hours to make money to take care of a family. I've almost been in tears at times when people gave me $20+ tips.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

GooberX said:


> Drivers don't need the general public on their side.
> 
> They need the regulators on their side.
> 
> ...


Which way do you think the regulators tend to lean? If you guessed towards the side that puts more money in the cities pockets then you guessed right. Now whose more capable of doing that Uber or the drivers? I wouldn't count on the regulators to be paragon's of fairness and justice if I were you. Public perception matters. Again, look at the taxi industry. They HAD the regulators on their said, STRONGLY. They bring in a crap ton of money to the cities and public perception is an afterthought for them as well. Now city after city is allowing Uber as long as they get their cut. Learn from history or be doomed to repeat it.


----------



## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

D Town said:


> Which way do you think the regulators tend to lean? If you guessed towards the side that puts more money in the cities pockets then you guessed right. Now whose more capable of doing that Uber or the drivers? I wouldn't count on the regulators to be paragon's of fairness and justice if I were you. Public perception matters. Again, look at the taxi industry. They HAD the regulators on their said, STRONGLY. They bring in a crap ton of money to the cities and public perception is an afterthought for them as well. Now city after city is allowing Uber as long as they get their cut. Learn from history or be doomed to repeat it.


Watch the regulatory process and which way it is trending.

Give it time.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

GooberX said:


> Watch the regulatory process and which way it is trending.
> 
> Give it time.


I am. Its trending towards city permits to drive and inspections at city stations and business licenses and finger printing...ALL come with fees paid to the cities. THAT is the regulatory direction its going. More out of the drivers pockets from every angle.


----------



## GooberX (May 13, 2015)

D Town said:


> I am. Its trending towards city permits to drive and inspections at city stations and business licenses and finger printing...ALL come with fees paid to the cities. THAT is the regulatory direction its going. More out of the drivers pockets from every angle.


Rate regulation WILL follow.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

GooberX said:


> Rate regulation WILL follow.


I hope you're right but I won't hold my breath.


----------



## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

GooberX said:


> Rate regulation WILL follow.


I certainly hope you're right. Even though we're not employees...we should be able to get steady pay rates. It may be contractual that Foober can play with their computers and calculators and geek machines and spit out whatever rate they want to come up with at any time...but I've never in all my days seen people's pay played with like this. Those who work for convenience stores, in fast food, and in entry level retain jobs get steady pay and do not have to put more of their own money and resources into the job once they get there. I hope to be gone by the time all of this is sorted out and Foober is forced to grow up or go out of business.


----------



## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

The *IRS Audits Taxis at a 15.75% Tip rate of fare.* The IRS adds 15.75% to the fare for taxing purposes. So out of a full fare, Uber takes 30+% commission and then Discourages Customers from paying the 15% tip that is considered normal by the IRS and that the Driver will be taxed on if given audit by IRS. To counter Uber's hateful policy of discouraging tips that increase Driver income by 15%, *DRIVERS SHOULD RATE CUSTOMER BY TIP AMOUNT UNTIL UBER PUTS A TIP OPTION ON APP*. For example, the 15% Expected Tip By IRS gets a 5 rating; 10% tip gets 3 rating; less than 10% tip gets lowest rating 1. * Here is an example tax return at the IRS site showing 15.75% tip inclusion in audit.*

*https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Smal...dit-Techniques-Guide-Chapter-17#_Toc307217073*

*Read other parts of this IRS section - lots of education, ie, classification of drivers, etc.*


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Ca$h4 said:


> The *IRS Audits Taxis at a 15.75% Tip rate of fare.* The IRS adds 15.75% to the fare for taxing purposes. So out of a full fare, Uber takes 30+% commission and then Discourages Customers from paying the 15% tip that is considered normal by the IRS and that the Driver will be taxed on if given audit by IRS. To counter Uber's hateful policy of discouraging tips that increase Driver income by 15%, *DRIVERS SHOULD RATE CUSTOMER BY TIP AMOUNT UNTIL UBER PUTS A TIP OPTION ON APP*. For example, the 15% Expected Tip By IRS gets a 5 rating; 10% tip gets 3 rating; less than 10% tip gets lowest rating 1. * Here is an example tax return at the IRS site showing 15.75% tip inclusion in audit.*
> 
> *https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Smal...dit-Techniques-Guide-Chapter-17#_Toc307217073*
> 
> *Read other parts of this IRS section - lots of education, ie, classification of drivers, etc.*


Why would Uber care what drivers rate their pax? They won't be deactivated for a low rating and desperate drivers will STILL pick them up so in all reality what are you accomplishing?


----------



## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

D Town said:


> Why would Uber care what drivers rate their pax? They won't be deactivated for a low rating and desperate drivers will STILL pick them up so in all reality what are you accomplishing?


*Uber cares* because their rating model is not based on "Rate by Tip." The Tipping issue is a negative for Uber brand. *Drivers care* because a low rating (under 4) means potential trouble. *Almost all Customers care *because they want to be rated high for various practical and psychological reasons.


----------



## ATX 22 (Jun 17, 2015)

There's no need to tip said:


> And once again, the only thing I am "entitled" to is use of the service I paid for as it was advertised. I'm not the one with my hand out expecting others to fix a problem they didn't create. THAT is entitlement right there. As I said, if there comes a time where the market adjusts the rate, or Uber goes under, so be it. Things will eventually work themselves out one way or another and I will reevaluate my position as a customer at that time. I'm not so certain things are going to play out as how you think they will.


You mistake me for one of your Uber drivers. I told them to piss off when they cut the rates in my city to the point I would've had to drop my commercial policy.
I drive limo/black car service now. Part time. People who can afford the ride, and understand that tipping isn't ever included. Enjoy your minimum fare screwing over of working people while you can, karma will catch up with you soon enough.


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Ca$h4 said:


> *Uber cares* because their rating model is not based on "Rate by Tip." The Tipping issue is a negative for Uber brand. *Drivers care* because a low rating (under 4) means potential trouble. *Almost all Customers care *because they want to be rated high for various practical and psychological reasons.


No they really don't care...the more likely outcome of drivers en-mass low rating pax for tips would be Uber either taking passenger ratings away or just hiding the rating from the drivers like they did in Chicago. Uber is in the business of taking from drivers not giving. When rates plunged and so many drivers decided their tolerance for waiting for late pax or hunting down pax who can't place a pin was gone and they'd rather collect a $5 fee did Uber respond by raising rates and/or including tips? No, they're responding by phasing out cancel fees so tell me why this would be different?


----------



## Ca$h4 (Aug 12, 2015)

I agree: Uber is in the business of taking from drivers not giving.

I don't agree: No, they're responding by phasing out cancel fees (see link)
*
http://dallas.suntimes.com/dal-busi...rs-will-pay-for-making-drivers-wait-literally*


----------



## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Ca$h4 said:


> I agree: Uber is in the business of taking from drivers not giving.
> 
> I don't agree: No, they're responding by phasing out cancel fees (see link)
> *
> http://dallas.suntimes.com/dal-busi...rs-will-pay-for-making-drivers-wait-literally*


Yeah I know about that. An extra $0.15 a minute.

Being in NYC you guys still get the cancel fee however in my market of Dallas they took it away. That will spread. Use this handy link to check the markets yourself. https://www.uber.com/cities/


----------

