# GAP INSURANCE TERMINATED MY CLAIM



## Darngap

My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you’re not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


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## SuzeCB

You're screwed.

This is why it's a bad idea to U/L in a car you have a loan on. Even with loan gap insurance AND Rideshare Endorsement on your personal policy. The only thing you COULD have done, beforehand, was make sure you never owe more than the Blue Book value of your car.

Even if you tried to sue the guy that hit you, the highest amount you could get for your car will be Blue Book, and, if your insurance company already paid the loan holder that amount, the other guy or his insurance will pay them, not you.

Some really bad business decisions here. We all make at least some, you just got caught in yours. I'm sorry you didn't know what you were getting into and risking.


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## JaxUberLyft

Your neck should have hurt enough for a precautionary transport to the nearest hospital just to get checked out...

(Need I go on?)


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## Darngap

SuzeCB said:


> You're screwed.
> 
> This is why it's a bad idea to U/L in a car you have a loan on. Even with loan gap insurance AND Rideshare Endorsement on your personal policy. The only thing you COULD have done, beforehand, was make sure you never owe more than the Blue Book value of your car.
> 
> Even if you tried to sue the guy that hit you, the highest amount you could get for your car will be Blue Book, and, if your insurance company already paid the loan holder that amount, the other guy or his insurance will pay them, not you.
> 
> Some really bad business decisions here. We all make at least some, you just got caught in yours. I'm sorry you didn't know what you were getting into and risking.


Am i in the right thread lol.. I thought i click the advice thread on the forum. Thanks for the facts or info tho.



JaxUberLyft said:


> Your neck should have hurt enough for a precautionary transport to the nearest hospital just to get checked out...
> 
> (Need I go on?)


And.......


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## nonononodrivethru

Darngap said:


> Am i in the right thread lol.. I thought i click the advice thread on the forum. Thanks for the facts or info tho.
> 
> 
> And.......


Sue the driver for the gap.

I'm still trying to figure out how you owed $34k on a 2019 Altima.


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## Darngap

nonononodrivethru said:


> Sue the driver for the gap.


Thanks for the advice we'll see. Hope there's another way


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## nonononodrivethru

You can also sue the driver for lost wages. Did you already sign an agreement from his insurance?


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## XLnoGas

Free consultation with a personal injury lawyer. When did this happen?


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## nonononodrivethru

Darngap said:


> Thanks for the advice we'll see. Hope there's another way


Look at your gap contract closely. Make sure there is a place that says commercial use voids the gap policy.


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## Darngap

nonononodrivethru said:


> Sue the driver for the gap.
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out how you owed $34k on a 2019 Altima.


I made a lot of mistakes buying that car. And a lot of stupid decisions. Finance guy offerred the extended warranty, gap insurance and this century security thingy. And i fell for it. I purchased those addendum too thats why it went upto 34k


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## nonononodrivethru

Darngap said:


> I made a lot of mistakes buying that car. And a lot of stupid decisions. Finance guy offerred the extended warranty, gap insurance and this century security thingy. And i fell for it. I purchased those addendum too thats why it went upto 34k


Did you tell the dealership you were going to be using it for rideshare?


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## Darngap

nonononodrivethru said:


> Look at your gap contact closely. Make sure there is a place that says commercial use voids the gap policy.


All or most gap isurance has this written exclusions. Im just hoping maybe there's still a way likei dont know seeking a right attorney.



nonononodrivethru said:


> Did you tell the dealership you were going to be using it for rideshare?


He knew. He was like oh you gonna need the extended warranty or that century security thing especially if your gonna do uber thats what he said


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## nonononodrivethru

Darngap said:


> All or most gap isurance has this written exclusions. Im just hoping maybe there's still a way likei dont know seeking a right attorney.


Just read the contract. I know it definitely applies to extended warranties. But if it's not in the contract oh, then you're free and clear.


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## Darngap

XLnoGas said:


> Free consultation with a personal injury lawyer. When did this happen?


I already have an injury attorney thanks


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## nonononodrivethru

Darngap said:


> I already have an injury attorney thanks


If you didn't sign any documents with the other driver's insurance company, you definitely still have some leverage.

Also, if you told the dealership that you were going to be using the car for rideshare and they still sold you the extended warranty and GAP coverage you really need to report them to the better business bureau and go to the dealership and raise hell. car salesman and loan officers know very well that they're selling you a bag of potatoes for $5,000 with that b*******.


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## XLnoGas

Darngap said:


> I already have an injury attorney thanks


Send a goodwill letter to the bank, they may let you off for the 9k


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## tohunt4me

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


Dont buy another Nissan !


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## nonononodrivethru

XLnoGas said:


> Send a goodwill letter to the bank, they may let you off for the 9k


That usually only works if the car purchaser has already paid a good amount of interest.



tohunt4me said:


> Dont buy another Nissan !


I second this. For all you know, you dodged an even bigger bullet because Nissan has been having some reliability issues over the past 7 years especially with their transmissions.


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## jgiun1

That sucks....when my car was totaled luckily I bought non brand new but newer car with 13k miles...drove two hours away to get it, and saved by being well under retail....I remember my progressive agent telling me in lucky I evened out..,.I asked her what the worse upside down she seen,....until now the 8 grand was the worse I seen, now you're number at 9 grand was the highest I heard upside down.



nonononodrivethru said:


> If you didn't sign any documents with the other driver's insurance company, you definitely still have some leverage.
> 
> Also, if you told the dealership that you were going to be using the car for rideshare and they still sold you the extended warranty and GAP coverage you really need to report them to the better business bureau and go to the dealership and raise hell. car salesman and loan officers know very well that they're selling you a bag of potatoes for $5,000 with that b*******.


All depends what state.....they only pay the full value of retail price here in PA....that's coming from a totaled car and 100% no fault



SuzeCB said:


> You're screwed.
> 
> This is why it's a bad idea to U/L in a car you have a loan on. Even with loan gap insurance AND Rideshare Endorsement on your personal policy. The only thing you COULD have done, beforehand, was make sure you never owe more than the Blue Book value of your car.
> 
> Even if you tried to sue the guy that hit you, the highest amount you could get for your car will be Blue Book, and, if your insurance company already paid the loan holder that amount, the other guy or his insurance will pay them, not you.
> 
> Some really bad business decisions here. We all make at least some, you just got caught in yours. I'm sorry you didn't know what you were getting into and risking.


I concur ^^^^^ screwed


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## Dammit Mazzacane

OP, Review the gap insurance paperwork to ensure no clauses are present stating you cannot use the car for commercial purposes (i.e. rideshare). An attorney can do this review this for you at your cost. That's how you can fight them. 
It may be a few hundred dollars invested for an attorney review versus $9,000 owed on the car. (You can do it yourself and review for free, of course.)


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## TomTheAnt

Darngap said:


> Thanks for the advice we'll see. Hope there's another way


Most likely not. You got what the car is worth from the settlement. Insurance companies are not interested what you owe for your car. The rest is between you and the other driver. Especially since you broke the gap contract by using it for rideshare when it is not allowed.

Next question is then that why the finance guy sold you the gap insurance knowing you are doing rideshare? I know, I know... That's purely a rhetorical question.


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## Darngap

TomTheAnt said:


> Most likely not. You got what the car is worth from the settlement. Insurance companies are not interested what you owe for your car. The rest is between you and the other driver. Especially since you broke the gap contract by using it for rideshare when it is not allowed.
> 
> Next question is then that why the finance guy sold you the gap insurance knowing you are doing rideshare? I know, I know... That's purely a rhetorical question.





TomTheAnt said:


> Next question is then that why the finance guy sold you the gap insurance knowing you are doing rideshare? I know, I know... That's purely a rhetorical question.


LOL there


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## nonononodrivethru

Worst case scenario, March back to the dealership with your negative equity and demand that they give you a good deal on another vehicle. If you've been making your payments on time, your lender should have you in good favor.


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## kingcorey321

go talk to a lawyer bring your contract with you
i thought ride share was not commercial. your lawyer could settle this with a phone call to the dealer


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## backstreets-trans

When I read the gap info I saw the same language of no commercial driving. I canceled all the policies I bought and applied that money to my loan. I got back close to $2000 after they prorated it. At minimum cancel all the extras the dealership sold you. I had to write or email each company separately. 

Good Luck. Rideshare is a shady business that exploits the drivers. The comfort rides platform is just the newest example of high risk low reward.


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## Dekero

JaxUberLyft said:


> Your neck should have hurt enough for a precautionary transport to the nearest hospital just to get checked out...
> 
> (Need I go on?)


Yep that would have been my suggestion... Worked for me.... Car was worth 3k, ER visit even though I had no injuries was worth 7k settled for over 30k.. and here is a pic of the prize for winning at the game of Life.... Screw them before they screw you...sadly it's the way of the world nowadays...


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## Lynxtheclown

Darngap said:


> I made a lot of mistakes buying that car. And a lot of stupid decisions. Finance guy offerred the extended warranty, gap insurance and this century security thingy. And i fell for it. I purchased those addendum too thats why it went upto 34k


Some dealership is going to have your ass on speed dail lol.

Had a similar problem someone broke my door handle $500 fix. So i called uber they wanted $1,000 deductible. Called my personal insurance they said that wasnt theirs to deal with since i was online. I have rideshare insurance and they told me it only covers PASSED my insurance amount so if i have a $100,000 policy and a rider sues for $200,000 it then kicks in. &#128580;&#128580;&#128580;


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## Christinebitg

TomTheAnt said:


> Next question is then that why the finance guy sold you the gap insurance knowing you are doing rideshare?


In my opinion, that may be your best avenue. It could turn into a he said / she said, though.


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## 58756

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


That Gap usually gave people hard time or never paid anyways, because truth is, it was designed to give dealer employees commission from the $700 sale of it that got calculated into your loan.


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## Christinebitg

Ozzyoz said:


> That Gap usually gave people hard time or never paid anyways


That's another issue, and a real one. Some insurance companies have a business plan that includes taking your money and refusing to pay ANY claims.

Their model is basically "Yeah, go ahead and sue us. See if you can do it successfully, we dare you."

In other words, even if you weren't driving for U/L, they might have stiffed you.

Just a thought.


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## 58756

Christinebitg said:


> That's another issue, and a real one. Some insurance companies have a business plan that includes taking your money and refusing to pay ANY claims.
> 
> Their model is basically "Yeah, go ahead and sue us. See if you can do it successfully, we dare you."
> 
> In other words, even if you weren't driving for U/L, they might have stiffed you.
> 
> Just a thought.


Travel insurance did same thing to me, my phone was pickpocketed in an Arab country, and the police report was in Arabic so they denied it because of that and wouldn't accept a translation of it. Clearly Gap and Travel insurance aren't really on our side.


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## Seamus

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


Since you were rear ended the person who hit you is responsible. File a claim against their insurance company. Should have gone thru their insurance from the start.


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## Uber's Guber

nonononodrivethru said:


> Look at your gap contract closely. Make sure there is a place that says commercial use voids the gap policy.


Attorneys draw up the fine print that is written into these legal contracts. You can bet it's in there at least a dozen times. 


nonononodrivethru said:


> Did you tell the dealership you were going to be using it for rideshare?


What is said verbally, and what is written above the signed dotted line are two very distinct details. Guess which one holds up in court?


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## Christinebitg

Seamus said:


> Since you were rear ended the person who hit you is responsible. File a claim against their insurance company. Should have gone thru their insurance from the start.


Yes, that's where it all should have started.

But...

The biggest problem is that the other driver's insurance company isn't responsible for the gap coverage.

Their defense would be: You've already collected for the value of your car.


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## Invisible

I’m sorry this happened to you. Good luck, and I hope your lawyer can help you.


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## Seamus

Christinebitg said:


> Yes, that's where it all should have started.
> 
> But...
> 
> The biggest problem is that the other driver's insurance company isn't responsible for the gap coverage.
> 
> Their defense would be: You've already collected for the value of your car.


I went thru this last year. At least in NY they will be so happy you aren't claiming you'll never walk again they will gladly pay. I recovered every nickel + from the person who hit me.


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## IR12

nonononodrivethru said:


> Sue the driver for the gap.
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out how you owed $34k on a 2019 Altima.


WTF! $34k??? Take a predatory loan to work for predatory ridesharing companies.
Insane considering Nissa Altima 2013-present are ALL on recall due to defective transmissions that crap out without much notice.



Dammit Mazzacane said:


> OP, Review the gap insurance paperwork to ensure no clauses are present stating you cannot use the car for commercial purposes (i.e. rideshare). An attorney can do this review this for you at your cost. That's how you can fight them.
> It may be a few hundred dollars invested for an attorney review versus $9,000 owed on the car. (You can do it yourself and review for free, of course.)


Drivers post about suing Uber/Lyft or insurance companies.

If you have money to sue an insurance company & ANY hope of winning, you would not be doing ridesharing but okay...


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## kevin92009

SuzeCB said:


> You're screwed.
> 
> This is why it's a bad idea to U/L in a car you have a loan on. Even with loan gap insurance AND Rideshare Endorsement on your personal policy. The only thing you COULD have done, beforehand, was make sure you never owe more than the Blue Book value of your car.
> 
> Even if you tried to sue the guy that hit you, the highest amount you could get for your car will be Blue Book, and, if your insurance company already paid the loan holder that amount, the other guy or his insurance will pay them, not you.
> 
> Some really bad business decisions here. We all make at least some, you just got caught in yours. I'm sorry you didn't know what you were getting into and risking.


i used a financed vw for lyft and uber as well , put around 160k rideshare miles on it , worst decision i ever made , i will not repeat that mistake again .


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


Get a lawyer and sue the other drivers insurance.

Otherwise, you knew you were violating the terms of your gap insurance. And, sadly, as such, are screwed.



Dammit Mazzacane said:


> OP, Review the gap insurance paperwork to ensure no clauses are present stating you cannot use the car for commercial purposes (i.e. rideshare). An attorney can do this review this for you at your cost. That's how you can fight them.
> It may be a few hundred dollars invested for an attorney review versus $9,000 owed on the car. (You can do it yourself and review for free, of course.)


Or, and silly idea here, he could Just Read The Contract as he should have when he signed up. Assure you there is a "not allowed to be used for commercial purposes" clause. He will find it simply skimming the document. And, you are assuming he didn't already know this when he signed it.


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## 58756

kevin92009 said:


> i used a financed vw for lyft and uber as well , put around 160k rideshare miles on it , worst decision i ever made , i will not repeat that mistake again .


VW mechanic told me that a lot of people don't know that at 120k mark, the whole engine needs a service that dissembles it to get to some weird part he described. And it costs $600+ to do so.


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## kevin92009

Ozzyoz said:


> VW mechanic told me that a lot of people don't know that at 120k mark, the whole engine needs a service that dissembles it to get to some weird part he described. And it costs $600+ to do so.


mine is a diesel , nothing broke yet , maybe i was lucky


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## islanddriver

Darngap said:


> All or most gap isurance has this written exclusions. Im just hoping maybe there's still a way likei dont know seeking a right attorney.
> 
> 
> He knew. He was like oh you gonna need the extended warranty or that century security thing especially if your gonna do uber thats what he said


First rule never trust or believe a car salesman they'll tell you anything to make more commission.


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## Grokit

SuzeCB said:


> You're screwed.
> 
> This is why it's a bad idea to U/L in a car you have a loan on. Even with loan gap insurance AND Rideshare Endorsement on your personal policy. The only thing you COULD have done, beforehand, was make sure you never owe more than the Blue Book value of your car.
> 
> Even if you tried to sue the guy that hit you, the highest amount you could get for your car will be Blue Book, and, if your insurance company already paid the loan holder that amount, the other guy or his insurance will pay them, not you.
> 
> Some really bad business decisions here. We all make at least some, you just got caught in yours. I'm sorry you didn't know what you were getting into and risking.


He wasn't doing rideshare at the time of the accident. If you believe that doesn't matter, then at what point does rideshare invalidate gap insurance? A single trip?

It's my understanding that coverage can only be denied if he was online and maybe within a few hours of going offline.


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## Christinebitg

Grokit said:


> A single trip?


When they're digging for an excuse to deny coverage, yes.

Is it right? No, of course not. But refer back to that earlier post about never paying any claims, and daring you to sue them.


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## Grokit

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


Given that you weren't doing rideshare at the time of the accident, I believe you have a case. You need to speak with an insurance attorney pronto! It's my understanding that the determinate factor here is the amount of time that elapsed between the last time you were online and the time of the accident.


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## theMezz

If you were not on-line then what was the commercial use?


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## Grokit

Christinebitg said:


> When they're digging for an excuse to deny coverage, yes.
> 
> Is it right? No, of course not. But refer back to that earlier post about never paying any claims, and daring you to sue them.


All it usually takes is a good attorney to write out a letter describing the OP's intent to sue and the reasoning of why he would likely win in Court to convince most unethical GAP insurance providers to back down.

The post about GAP insurers never paying any claims is ludicrous.


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## SuzeCB

Grokit said:


> He wasn't doing rideshare at the time of the accident. If you believe that doesn't matter, then at what point does rideshare invalidate gap insurance? A single trip?
> 
> It's my understanding that coverage can only be denied if he was online and maybe within a few hours of going offline.


Most loans and gap policies are issued with a clause that the car is not to be used for any commercial purposes. Not even delivering food, whether gig or for a local restaurant.

If they find out you do, the whole thing is, ir can be, invalidated.


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## Grokit

SuzeCB said:


> Most loans and gap policies are issued with a clause that the car is not to be used for any commercial purposes. Not even delivering food, whether gig or for a local restaurant.
> 
> If they find out you do, the whole thing is, ir can be, invalidated.


After delving down the rabbit hole, I learned that GAP is messy. It can either be in the form of insurance or a waiver and its regulation varies tremendously based upon its form and the differences in state laws.

It seems to me unlikely that a state-regulated GAP insurance policy, such as one provided by Progressive Insurance could be invalidated by a single rideshare trip, let's say a year before the accident, especially given that Progressive states that its GAP policies will not be invalidated by circumstances that do not invalidate their auto insurance of the vehicle.


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## SuzeCB

Grokit said:


> After delving down the rabbit hole, I learned that GAP is messy. It can either be in the form of insurance or a waiver and its regulation varies tremendously based upon its form and the differences in state laws.
> 
> It seems to me unlikely that a state-regulated GAP insurance policy, such as one provided by Progressive Insurance could be invalidated by a single rideshare trip, let's say a year before the accident, especially given that Progressive states that its GAP policies will not be invalidated by circumstances that do not invalidate their auto insurance of the vehicle.
> 
> View attachment 399895


But in NJ, driving rideshare can invalidate Progressive's insurance...


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## FormerTaxiDriver♧

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


Go bankrupt!


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## Disgusted Driver

Folks, the reason why gap insurance doesn't cover commercial use is because it kills the value of the car. They don't care if you were on a ride at the time. You are doing more driving than they projected, therefore they have to cover more because you killed the value of the car. For example, if I have a 1 year old car, normal driving it might lose 5k in value. If I hit it hard and did full time rs I might drive an extra 50k plus a lot of wear and tear on the car and maybe it's worth 8k less. The insurance company would be on the hook for the extra 3k of commercial use were it allowed.


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## BigJohn

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


This is going to sound harsh, but oh boo hoo:

Tough luck. YOUR problem for not reading YOUR insurance policies.

PEOPLE, it is called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.


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## peteyvavs

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


Speak to an attorney and sue the Aholes.


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## Grokit

SuzeCB said:


> But in NJ, driving rideshare can invalidate Progressive's insurance...


C'mon Suze, you initially made it out to be a given that he was screwed in all cases. I showed an exception and now you seem to be grasping at straws to invalidate a legitimate exception.

GAP insurance through Progressive would not be invalidated if the driver also has a Rideshare rider on the Progressive auto insurance policy.

Face it, there are exceptions to the general Rule-of-Thimb that doing rideshare invalidates GAP coverage.


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## peteyvavs

SuzeCB said:


> But in NJ, driving rideshare can invalidate Progressive's insurance...


I have GAP insurance through a dealership and no where does it state the it'll be invalidated if I use my car for commercial purposes.


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## Mtbsrfun

Dekero said:


> Yep that would have been my suggestion... Worked for me.... Car was worth 3k, ER visit even though I had no injuries was worth 7k settled for over 30k.. and here is a pic of the prize for winning at the game of Life.... Screw them before they screw you...sadly it's the way of the world nowadays...
> 
> View attachment 399518


Unless that family had 30 large sitting around you gained yourself some real bad karma with that move; speaks volumes of your integrity.



Disgusted Driver said:


> Folks, the reason why gap insurance doesn't cover commercial use is because it kills the value of the car. They don't care if you were on a ride at the time. You are doing more driving than they projected, therefore they have to cover more because you killed the value of the car. For example, if I have a 1 year old car, normal driving it might lose 5k in value. If I hit it hard and did full time rs I might drive an extra 50k plus a lot of wear and tear on the car and maybe it's worth 8k less. The insurance company would be on the hook for the extra 3k of commercial use were it allowed.


QFT


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## Diamondraider

theMezz said:


> If you were not on-line then what was the commercial use?


Devaluing the vehicle faster than you are rated under the policy. Policies have annual mileage as part of the insurance equation (more miles, more risk)
Undeclared rideshare is argued to be the equivalent of driving uninsured, or underinsured. Essentially insurance fraud.



peteyvavs said:


> I have GAP insurance through a dealership and no where does it state the it'll be invalidated if I use my car for commercial purposes.


Check if the gap insurance is pro-rated at a specific mileage milestone. Pro-rated policy clauses make rideshare prohibitive. Along the lines of a mileage allowance for a leased vehicle.


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## LADryver

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Get a lawyer and sue the other drivers insurance.
> 
> Otherwise, you knew you were violating the terms of your gap insurance. And, sadly, as such, are screwed.
> 
> 
> Or, and silly idea here, he could Just Read The Contract as he should have when he signed up. Assure you there is a "not allowed to be used for commercial purposes" clause. He will find it simply skimming the document. And, you are assuming he didn't already know this when he signed it.


You need a lawyer to help you sort out what "commercial purposes" actually means. It actually is not all it seems. The attorney could (an attorney once used this word) "compel" the payment. I once had a service contract claim denial turned around by a representative.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink

LADryver said:


> You need a lawyer to help you sort out what "commercial purposes" actually means. It actually is not all it seems. The attorney could (an attorney once used this word) "compel" the payment. I once had a service contract claim denial turned around by a representative.


actually commercial purposes is a very common phrase that has set definitions.
Did they use the vehicle to earn income directly (so a lawyer that drives to work does not use their vehicle for commercial purposes) where the vehicle itself is vital to the business at hand (ice cream truck, food trucks...delivery of food...transportation of people) pretty simple.

And, you having an insurance company "representative" choose to honor a contract you broke just proves that "high school diploma" being their education level for employment is why you always fight denials when you have not specifically broken the contract.


----------



## Wildgoose

Darngap said:


> I made a lot of mistakes buying that car. And a lot of stupid decisions. Finance guy offerred the extended warranty, gap insurance and this century security thingy. And i fell for it. I purchased those addendum too thats why it went upto 34k


Cancel the extended warranty since your car is totaled. You will get some from it. They want to read odometer but I think it should be in the claim. Cancel whatever you could and get some back.


----------



## The Gift of Fish

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


My car also got rear ended and was totalled. However, when I bought it I had shopped around for a (very) used example and I paid below book on it. I paid $3,900 for it, Uberlyfted 3 years and 124,000 miles in it and the insurance paid me $5,700 when they totalled it. So I drove the car for free for 3 years, just paying for gas, maintenance and insurance, plus I made $1,800 profit.

Never, never, buy a car over 5 grand for Uber X or Lyft. Always buy an old used car and you will save yourself from being forked over by insurance companies in the event of an accident. On the contrary; you'll be happy when someone totals the car for you.


----------



## SuzeCB

Grokit said:


> C'mon Suze, you initially made it out to be a given that he was screwed in all cases. I showed an exception and now you seem to be grasping at straws to invalidate a legitimate exception.
> 
> GAP insurance through Progressive would not be invalidated if the driver also has a Rideshare rider on the Progressive auto insurance policy.
> 
> Face it, there are exceptions to the general Rule-of-Thimb that doing rideshare invalidates GAP coverage.


You can't get a RS Endorsement on a Progressive in NJ. I wasn't paying attention to which forum I was in.

Sorry!


----------



## Dekero

Mtbsrfun said:


> Unless that family had 30 large sitting around you gained yourself some real bad karma with that move; speaks volumes of your integrity.
> 
> 
> QFT


Ummm No it's called Car Insurance. And pain and suffering not to mention I was out of work for 30+days. But I appreciate your off topic comment now move along back to your original job ...........

(This would be where I would normally berate you for being ..... Or ..... But The mods have asked me to stop being so confrontational... So please ....stop, take a moment and imagine reading around 2-3 sentences where I talk bad about you, your family, and just for fun your dog.... BUT in an effort to reduce my banned time.. I have refrained... Your welcome...)

Thanks for your input...


----------



## SHalester

New peanut guy is a yawn.

to topic: RS rider is a must. Being over insured much better than the alternative.


----------



## Mtbsrfun

Dekero said:


> Ummm No it's called Car Insurance. And pain and suffering not to mention I was out of work for 30+days. But I appreciate your off topic comment now move along back to your original job ...........
> 
> (This would be where I would normally berate you for being ..... Or ..... But The mods have asked me to stop being so confrontational... So please ....stop, take a moment and imagine reading around 2-3 sentences where I talk bad about you, your family, and just for fun your dog.... BUT in an effort to reduce my banned time.. I have refrained... Your welcome...)
> 
> Thanks for your input...


You're a scum bag and your fake injury lawsuit proves it.
I quoted you for truth, what state are you in again? I see a insurance fraud lawsuit in your future.


----------



## Dekero

SHalester said:


> New peanut guy is a yawn.
> 
> to topic: RS rider is a must. Being over insured much better than the alternative.


Go soak....


----------



## Mtbsrfun

Dekero said:


> Yep that would have been my suggestion... Worked for me.... Car was worth 3k, ER visit even though *I had no injuries *it was worth 7k settled for over 30k.. and here is a pic of the prize for winning at the game of Life.... Screw them before they screw you...sadly it's the way of the world nowadays...
> 
> View attachment 399518


----------



## Dekero

How bout....next time... I'll thank the 90 year old woman who shouldn't have been driving to start with for destroying my car, my ability to work, and putting me thru 30+ days of hell trying to work around the inconveniences of not having a car....

No the wench should be happy I didn't Sue her for the limits of her policy like I SHOULD HAVE....

AS FOR YOU...keep living in your little world wear people seem to thank each other after an auto accident and pray for the best.

The ONLY thing That would have made the turn out of my accident better??

*If it had been you who hit me and had to pay for the damages.... *

Now move along.... ( This is that part again where I have refrained as a courtesy from explaining about your upbringing... And how your family tree goes straight up and all that.... Again, Your welcome)

Good day!!


----------



## JaredJ

SuzeCB said:


> You're screwed.
> 
> This is why it's a bad idea to U/L in a car you have a loan on. Even with loan gap insurance AND Rideshare Endorsement on your personal policy. The only thing you COULD have done, beforehand, was make sure you never owe more than the Blue Book value of your car.
> 
> Even if you tried to sue the guy that hit you, the highest amount you could get for your car will be Blue Book, and, if your insurance company already paid the loan holder that amount, the other guy or his insurance will pay them, not you.
> 
> Some really bad business decisions here. We all make at least some, you just got caught in yours. I'm sorry you didn't know what you were getting into and risking.


KBB isn't used in court. Fair Market Value is, which can be pulled by underwriters to determine what similar vehicles have sold for recently in your particular market. Grandpa's use KBB.


----------



## Dammit Mazzacane

Secondary info: if you buy an extended warranty on the car, check for similar rideshare/commercial prohibitions.
No, seriously



JaredJ said:


> KBB isn't used in court. Fair Market Value is, which can be pulled by underwriters to determine what similar vehicles have sold for recently in your particular market.


Can verify this- comparable local market sales is how the adjuster determined a value for a totaled vehicle of mine


----------



## LADryver

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> actually commercial purposes is a very common phrase that has set definitions.
> Did they use the vehicle to earn income directly (so a lawyer that drives to work does not use their vehicle for commercial purposes) where the vehicle itself is vital to the business at hand (ice cream truck, food trucks...delivery of food...transportation of people) pretty simple.
> 
> And, you having an insurance company "representative" choose to honor a contract you broke just proves that "high school diploma" being their education level for employment is why you always fight denials when you have not specifically broken the contract.


The trick is that legally rideshare straddles lines between not commercial and commercial. Let an attorney disappoint you if they must if you ever have your own issue, but dont cost yourself something like 9 grand out of ignorance. The OP has not replied since Thursday. He might be done with us.


----------



## MiamiKid

SuzeCB said:


> You're screwed.
> 
> This is why it's a bad idea to U/L in a car you have a loan on. Even with loan gap insurance AND Rideshare Endorsement on your personal policy. The only thing you COULD have done, beforehand, was make sure you never owe more than the Blue Book value of your car.
> 
> Even if you tried to sue the guy that hit you, the highest amount you could get for your car will be Blue Book, and, if your insurance company already paid the loan holder that amount, the other guy or his insurance will pay them, not you.
> 
> Some really bad business decisions here. We all make at least some, you just got caught in yours. I'm sorry you didn't know what you were getting into and risking.


What happened here is similar to what would take place in the event of a claim involving an unaccompanied minor.

Uber's insurance denies the claim because of an exclusion in the policy. Same thing here, there's an exclusion, in most policies, regarding commercial use of a personal vehicle.

A rideshare endorsement will normally mitigate the issue. About $35/mo.


----------



## LADryver

MiamiKid said:


> What happened here is similar to what would take place in the event of a claim involving an unaccompanied minor.
> 
> Uber's insurance denies the claim because of an exclusion in the policy. Same thing here, there's an exclusion, in most policies, regarding commercial use of a personal vehicle.
> 
> A rideshare endorsement will normally mitigate the issue. About $35/mo.


Not the same. Sometimes overzealous bonus-seeking claims agents say something is excluded when it is not. UAM (Unaccompanied Minor) is not a technicality but a legality like smuggling, arguably, as in Cali specifically it is a court order. Commercial use in the eyes of the uninitiated, is more than is legally considered commercial use. The car was covered by insurance but not by GAP (or was it?) which is the topic.


----------



## Dekero

MiamiKid said:


> What happened here is similar to what would take place in the event of a claim involving an unaccompanied minor.
> 
> Uber's insurance denies the claim because of an exclusion in the policy. Same thing here, there's an exclusion, in most policies, regarding commercial use of a personal vehicle.
> 
> A rideshare endorsement will normally mitigate the issue. About $35/mo.


Whew... Thx for clearing that up...


----------



## 5☆OG

Get another car asap before it goes to collection and fs up your credit


----------



## MiamiKid

LADryver said:


> Not the same. Sometimes overzealous bonus-seeking claims agents say something is excluded when it is not. UAM (Unaccompanied Minor) is not a technicality but a legality like smuggling, arguably, as in Cali specifically it is a court order. Commercial use in the eyes of the uninitiated, is more than is legally considered commercial use. The car was covered by insurance but not by GAP (or was it?) which is the topic.


Try reading an insurance policy. I read several this weekend. All of the them, as in every single one, contain exclusions.

And they are very specifically termed "exclusions". In the case of Uber, I've spoken to both Uber's insurance underwriter and claims adjuster. "Unaccompanied Minors" are an exclusion. As are many other items.


----------



## Gone_in_60_seconds

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


Why didn't you read the "fine print" in the Gap Insurance before buying it?


----------



## Dekero

MiamiKid said:


> Try reading an insurance policy. I read several this weekend. All of the them, as in every single one, contain exclusions.
> 
> And they are very specifically termed "exclusions". In the case of Uber, I've spoken to both Uber's insurance underwriter and claims adjuster. "Unaccompanied Minors" are an exclusion. As are many other items.


Wow your a busy guy. I wish I had time to read a few insurance policies in my spare time.... That's awesome &#128077;&#128513;&#128522;


----------



## The Gift of Fish

This has inspired me. I think I'll break out all the instruction manuals and warranty insurance cards from the appliances I've bought over the years and read through them all next weekend.

I've already read the indredients of all the cans and boxed items in my kitchen. Haven't started on the warning labels on my under-the-sink cleaning products yet.

Thanks for the hot tip, MiamiUber.


----------



## Soldiering

Darngap said:


> I made a lot of mistakes buying that car. And a lot of stupid decisions. Finance guy offerred the extended warranty, gap insurance and this century security thingy. And i fell for it. I purchased those addendum too thats why it went upto 34k


Life lessons. Hope your taking notes.


----------



## MiamiKid

LADryver said:


> many


Of course every policy is different. One thing they all have, 100%, are exclusions.

You should know that.


----------



## Asificarewhatyoudontthink

LADryver said:


> The trick is that legally rideshare straddles lines between not commercial and commercial. Let an attorney disappoint you if they must if you ever have your own issue, but dont cost yourself something like 9 grand out of ignorance. The OP has not replied since Thursday. He might be done with us.


Ride share does not straddle anything, legally speaking. 
You are compensates for providing transportation.

Doubt me, check with the feds about whether time spent driving for Uber counts as work you were compensated for. 
And, that is the legal definition of commercial use for vehicles.


----------



## LADryver

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Ride share does not straddle anything, legally speaking.
> You are compensates for providing transportation.
> 
> Doubt me, check with the feds about whether time spent driving for Uber counts as work you were compensated for.
> And, that is the legal definition of commercial use for vehicles.


You know nothing.



Ozzyoz said:


> That Gap usually gave people hard time or never paid anyways, because truth is, it was designed to give dealer employees commission from the $700 sale of it that got calculated into your loan.


If a policy was wrongfully sold, the premium must be refunded.

https://www.irmi.com/articles/expert-commentary/probing-the-gaps-in-gap-insurance
https://examples.yourdictionary.com/false-advertising-examples.html
Fighting doesnt mean flushing the toilet on yourself.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


I would sue them and argue that refusing coverage only applies during actual commercial use.

The burden of proof is on the GAP company to prove they do not owe.



Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Ride share does not straddle anything, legally speaking.
> You are compensates for providing transportation.
> 
> Doubt me, check with the feds about whether time spent driving for Uber counts as work you were compensated for.
> And, that is the legal definition of commercial use for vehicles.


As soon as Bernie becomes president the Labor department will change course and rule we are employees and we will get help.


----------



## Don't swim in pools

uberdriverfornow said:


> I would sue them and argue that refusing coverage only applies during actual commercial use.
> 
> The burden of proof is on the GAP company to prove they do not owe.
> 
> 
> As soon as Bernie becomes president the Labor department will change course and rule we are employees and we will get help.


I dont want to be an employee. I would like to be a TRUE 1099. Not this halfway uber stuff. And Bernie is too old and insane to win anything. Give up on him. He doesn't know when hes lost.


----------



## Dekero

MiamiKid said:


> Of course every policy is different. One thing they all have, 100%, are exclusions.
> 
> You should know that.


AGAIN!!! WITH THE WISDOM!!! You sir are a wealth of knowledge and information.... THANK YOU... THANK YOU..... THANK YOU!


----------



## UberLaLa

Insurance companies / lawyers scour social media & internet to find evidence for any potential court cases. They know people typically use 'free' advice from the internet, rather than getting a lawyer. First result up:


----------



## cdm813

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. *What should i do.* Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


Not Uber in a $34k car.


----------



## MiamiKid

cdm813 said:


> Not Uber in a $34k car.


My way to Uber is in a totally paid for vehicle. $10K or less.

Had a $9K car note, when I started, and paid off within three months. Now have more than enough cash reserves, for another car, if necessary.


----------



## cdm813

MiamiKid said:


> My way to Uber is in a totally paid for vehicle. $10K or less.
> 
> Had a $9K car note, when I started, and paid off within three months. Now have more than enough cash reserves, for another car, if necessary.


Whatever the oldest vehicle you can Uber in in your area, go two model years newer and Uber with a sedan or minivan.


----------



## LADryver

UberLaLa said:


> Insurance companies / lawyers scour social media & internet to find evidence for any potential court cases. They know people typically use 'free' advice from the internet, rather than getting a lawyer. First result up:
> 
> View attachment 401041


could you have made the search more specific?


----------



## Smell My Finger

Obviously you are not from Miami. Any, and I mean ANY accident in Miami where someone rear ended you is like winning the lottery. We are the number 1 city in the entire good old US of A for medical fraud, how do you think so many can afford to live in all of these multi million dollar condos and boats? You need to step up your fraud game.


----------



## UberLaLa

LADryver said:


> could you have made the search more specific?


Hmmm, gee...lemme see...think Insurance company would have same information, no?

https://www.reinerslaughter.com/new...-can-make-personal-injury-lawyers-job-harder/


----------



## LADryver

UberLaLa said:


> Hmmm, gee...lemme see...think Insurance company would have same information, no?
> 
> https://www.reinerslaughter.com/new...-can-make-personal-injury-lawyers-job-harder/


I mean that if something is searchable at all on the internet such as a forum posting, it is usually the first up the more specufic matches to it that you search. Nissan, altima, gap, etc, are all very, in fact, micro-specific. A typical search would not make the same match. And attorneys look for evidence when to their case's favor, in a case, of course. But they dont bother without the motivation. The insurance company does not figure in. The car has already been paid for up to the cash value. The GAP is not the insurance, and is not legally considered insurance. It is purchased for one contingency and comes into play after the insurance pays a total loss. GAP is "Guaranteed Asset Protection".


----------



## UStaxman

Darngap said:


> I made a lot of mistakes buying that car. And a lot of stupid decisions. Finance guy offerred the extended warranty, gap insurance and this century security thingy. And i fell for it. I purchased those addendum too thats why it went upto 34k


The Gap and warranty can be cancelled- prorated refund applied to the loan payoff
The Century security system - if it's like LoJack adds value to your vehicle and insist the insurance add it it the settlement amount

Get some 3rd party estimates and submit to the Insurance company-- their 'bluebook' is an 'estimate' and not always comparing 'apples to apples' with vehicle condition and options

Good luck


----------



## UberLaLa

UStaxman said:


> The Gap and warranty can be cancelled- prorated refund applied to the loan payoff
> The Century security system - if it's like LoJack adds value to your vehicle and insist the insurance add it it the settlement amount
> 
> Get some 3rd party estimates and submit to the Insurance company-- their 'bluebook' is an 'estimate' and not always comparing 'apples to apples' with vehicle condition and options
> 
> Good luck


Now there's some great ADVICE


----------



## LADryver

UStaxman said:


> The Gap and warranty can be cancelled- prorated refund applied to the loan payoff
> The Century security system - if it's like LoJack adds value to your vehicle and insist the insurance add it it the settlement amount
> 
> Get some 3rd party estimates and submit to the Insurance company-- their 'bluebook' is an 'estimate' and not always comparing 'apples to apples' with vehicle condition and options
> 
> Good luck


it only takes one. The highest one within 100 miles.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

Don't swim in pools said:


> I dont want to be an employee. I would like to be a TRUE 1099. Not this halfway uber stuff. And Bernie is too old and insane to win anything. Give up on him. He doesn't know when hes lost.


You will never be an independent contractor so quit dreaming of the impossible. Until AB5 and a union contract is forced upon Uber and Lyft they will continue taking advantage of drivers.

And Bernie is ahead in all polls.


----------



## ohnos

uberdriverfornow said:


> I would sue them and argue that refusing coverage only applies during actual commercial use.
> 
> The burden of proof is on the GAP company to prove they do not owe.
> 
> 
> As soon as Bernie becomes president the Labor department will change course and rule we are employees and we will get help.


Yes GAP must cover if car not being used as rideshare at the time, unless if rideshare used at anytime is stated in GAP contract only.
LOl Bernie for president? what a joke. Polls lie we all know this now.


----------



## Escoman

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


Shouldn't have been using such an expensive car for ride share you need to read the gap contract


----------



## nonononodrivethru

The other thing that needs to be taken into consideration is that the other driver probably only had $25,000 coverage.


----------



## Ishurue

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


Get a lawyer


----------



## DriveLV

Darngap said:


> I made a lot of mistakes buying that car. And a lot of stupid decisions. Finance guy offerred the extended warranty, gap insurance and this century security thingy. And i fell for it. I purchased those addendum too thats why it went upto 34k


I don't have the patience to read the entire thread - so apologies if this has been mentioned:

I believe you should be able to get a refund on the extended warranty as you never used it (and never will). There may be a small administrative fee to terminate the extended warranty, but that would be minor.

Was the total price of the gap insurance charged upfront and rolled into the loan? If so, you should at least be able to argue for a refund of the unearned gap premium - if not a complete refund of the gap charge.

Not sure what century security is, but if it's not a tangible item (like a security system?) then you may have a shot at a refund also.

Read your contracts and terms/conditions. Many dealerships (even if they seem small/locally owned) are actually owned by multi-state corporations. Pursue your complaints through the dealership, to the owner, and up to Nissan corporate if you need to. Nissan will try to disclaim any responsibility for the dealership's actions (selling you a GAP policy that they knew you were ineligible for). They will say the dealership is a franchise and they are not responsible. Remind them that they allow the Nissan logo/name to be on the dealership door so they are responsible. Ask Nissan corporate if they want to be blasted on social media for the dealership's actions. This may provoke a positive response without having to invoke an attorney. Nissan may choose to lean on the dealership to make things right.

And as another poster mentioned - don't buy another Nissan. This issue could have happened with any dealer, but Nissan vehicles have had quality issue for a number of years. I've owned 3 Nissans and don't anticipate buying another one ever again (I actually refuse to buy any car that has a CVT). On my current Nissan, I'm on my second transmission (replaced at just over 90,000 miles).


----------



## Sariandan

I didn’t read through all of this, stopped at page 4’ish. How did the GAO people know the vehicle was used for rideshare?

Did you let it be towed from the accident location without removing the trade dress?


----------



## Ta85

How did the gap company know you do rideshare??? My car was totaled last year off the clock and i had no problems with my gap coverage.


----------



## DriveLV

Ta85 said:


> How did the gap company know you do rideshare???


My understanding is there is some sort of database that insurance companies can access to determine if a car is used for rideshare. I think I read recently that Carfax will be including that type of info also. I imagine the info is coming directly from Uber/Lyft.

Remember - Uber/Lyft want to keep Allstate/Farmers/etc happy so that they keep their Commercial/App Rates as low as possible. I have little doubt that Uber/Lyft would share our info with the insurance industry if they could save $1/year.


----------



## nonononodrivethru

DriveLV said:


> My understanding is there is some sort of database that insurance companies can access to determine if a car is used for rideshare. I think I read recently that Carfax will be including that type of info also. I imagine the info is coming directly from Uber/Lyft.
> 
> Remember - Uber/Lyft want to keep Allstate/Farmers/etc happy so that they keep their Commercial/App Rates as low as possible. I have little doubt that Uber/Lyft would share our info with the insurance industry if they could save $1/year.


Either way, be honest. Insurance fraud is no small thing.


----------



## Sariandan

DriveLV said:


> My understanding is there is some sort of database that insurance companies can access to determine if a car is used for rideshare. I think I read recently that Carfax will be including that type of info also. I imagine the info is coming directly from Uber/Lyft.
> 
> Remember - Uber/Lyft want to keep Allstate/Farmers/etc happy so that they keep their Commercial/App Rates as low as possible. I have little doubt that Uber/Lyft would share our info with the insurance industry if they could save $1/year.


Going along with that, Lyft gives you an extra 25 cents per ride if you maintain commercial vehicle insurance with Geico (unsure about others). So, yeah there is communication there.


----------



## nonononodrivethru

Sariandan said:


> Going along with that, Lyft gives you an extra 25 cents per ride if you maintain commercial vehicle insurance with Geico (unsure about others). So, yeah there is communication there.


This is not true, and if true, they owe me a lot of money.


----------



## islanddriver

DriveLV said:


> My understanding is there is some sort of database that insurance companies can access to determine if a car is used for rideshare. I think I read recently that Carfax will be including that type of info also. I imagine the info is coming directly from Uber/Lyft.
> 
> Remember - Uber/Lyft want to keep Allstate/Farmers/etc happy so that they keep their Commercial/App Rates as low as possible. I have little doubt that Uber/Lyft would share our info with the insurance industry if they could save $1/year.


I don't know about other states ,but in New York insurance companies have the right to get info on weather you ride share or were on line at time of accident. It's part of the ride share law in New York State


----------



## Sariandan

nonononodrivethru said:


> This is not true, and if true, they owe me a lot of money.


OK.


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek

Darngap said:


> Am i in the right thread lol.. I thought i click the advice thread on the forum. Thanks for the facts or info tho.
> 
> 
> And.......


And learn from your mistakes.
I personally wouldnt have told 
anyone I didnt have to that 
I was driving rideshare.
That includes getting your car
serviced or anyone who might 
write it down.
Dont drive a new car for uber..


----------



## Seamus

Doubt there is anyone left reading the 6th page of a thread but here it is.

Advice:
1. If rear ended ALWAYS go thru the insurance company of the person who rear ended you. They are liable. NEVER go thru your own insurance, they have no motivation to get you the maximum payment.
2. Virtually ALL insurance problems you are going to have involve the collision coverage for YOUR car. Liability and someone else's damage are going to be covered by Uber/Lyft. Therefore, the BEST way to do rideshare is with a vehicle that is fully paid and worth under 5k that you can walk away from if you had to.
3. If you own a house or have any significant assets, you are a total fool to do rideshare without a RS add on or commercial insurance. Don't risk your house for Uber or Lyft.
4. Insurance rules and policies vary WIDELY state by state so be wary of the forum "insurance experts". Even if what they are saying is true it may not be true in YOUR state.


----------



## Christinebitg

Seamus said:


> NEVER go thru your own insurance, they have no motivation to get you the maximum payment.


Your insurance company will always find out. Always.

He collected for the value of his totalled car. His issue is with trying to get the gap coverage honored. Which by the way, is a separate policy with a separate company.


----------



## Seamus

Christinebitg said:


> Your insurance company will always find out. Always.
> 
> He collected for the value of his totalled car. His issue is with trying to get the gap coverage honored. Which by the way, is a separate policy with a separate company.


It's ok they find out, as you say they always will find out. The issue is the other insurance is more interested in making you go away and will "perhaps" be more willing to pay all your losses. In this case, he may not have even needed to go to the gap insurance if he played his cards right.

I got rear ended last year on the way to a pick up. Since there was no pax in the van I didn't even report it to Uber. (I was not hurt). I filed a claim with the person's insurance company that hit me. Apparently, they were so happy I wasn't trying to claim I could never walk again that they were very generous in the payout to me. My own insurance would never have gotten me the money I got. My Van was a 2007 with 225,000 miles on it. I was paid more than double the book value to "go away".


----------



## nonononodrivethru

Sariandan said:


> OK.


Maybe it is unique to your region.


----------



## jegsmotors

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)





Grokit said:


> Given that you weren't doing rideshare at the time of the accident, I believe you have a case. You need to speak with an insurance attorney pronto! It's my understanding that the determinate factor here is the amount of time that elapsed between the last time you were online and the time of the accident.


 Getting a lawyer to look at this is a good idea. However, the reason the GAP insurer stipulates that the car cant be used commercially is because the extra miles depreciate the car so fast and dramatically increase the "gap" between what the car is worth and what is owed. So not being online at the time is not going to help.


----------



## nonononodrivethru

Sariandan said:


> OK.


Just looked it up online and it looks like it's supposed to be nation wide. I've had GEICO commercial insurance for 2 years now and they haven't paid me a penny.


----------



## Grokit

MiamiKid said:


> A rideshare endorsement will normally mitigate the issue. About $35/mo.


You must have encountered a special situation where RS protected your GAP coverage, but it was the exception, not the rule.



Dekero said:


> Whew... Thx for clearing that up...


A RS endorsement on your personal auto insurance plan does not provide any sort of guarantee that the company providing you with GAP financial coverage can't deny your your claim due to your using the car for rideshare, except under rare circumstances.

For example, if you have your personal auto insurance, a RS rider, and GAP financial insurance all through Progressive Insurance, they guarantee that they will honor your GAP insurance if you car gets totaled in a rideshare-related accident.

As @jegsmotors said above, doing Rideshare typically invalidates GAP protection because the companies providing this kind of protection are more likely lose money on the policies. The associated high mileage drives down the value of the car faster, leading to higher GAP payouts. So, companies like Progressive, who know you are doing rideshare, are going to price their GAP insurance at a higher rate.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


You were upside down to the tune of $9,000? On an Altima?

Regardless, did you READ the policy?



nonononodrivethru said:


> That usually only works if the car purchaser has already paid a good amount of interest.
> 
> 
> I second this. For all you know, you dodged an even bigger bullet because Nissan has been having some reliability issues over the past 7 years especially with their transmissions.


I would hope he could buy a transmission for $9,000.



nonononodrivethru said:


> The other thing that needs to be taken into consideration is that the other driver probably only had $25,000 coverage.


That's where your uninsured/underinsured coverage would kick in. But if his car was only worth $25,000 it wouldn't help. However, if the number was EXACTLY $25,000 I'd be suspicious.



Disgusted Driver said:


> Folks, the reason why gap insurance doesn't cover commercial use is because it kills the value of the car. They don't care if you were on a ride at the time. You are doing more driving than they projected, therefore they have to cover more because you killed the value of the car. For example, if I have a 1 year old car, normal driving it might lose 5k in value. If I hit it hard and did full time rs I might drive an extra 50k plus a lot of wear and tear on the car and maybe it's worth 8k less. The insurance company would be on the hook for the extra 3k of commercial use were it allowed.


This.



ohnos said:


> Yes GAP must cover if car not being used as rideshare at the time, unless if rideshare used at anytime is stated in GAP contract only.
> LOl Bernie for president? what a joke. Polls lie we all know this now.


"Used commercially" covers "rideshare at anytime".



Ta85 said:


> How did the gap company know you do rideshare??? My car was totaled last year off the clock and i had no problems with my gap coverage.


He said the salesman knew, didn't he? And the policy was through the dealership. But yes, as someone noted, the information is likely out there, and insurance companies communicate. So if he has rideshare insurance and the GAP company asks them what they paid out so they know how much has to be made up, his insurance would tell them.


----------



## nonononodrivethru

Sariandan said:


> OK.


Contacted both Lyft and Geico on this matter. It seems that they rolled out this promotion a few months ago without telling existing drivers and requiring you to add lyft as an interest on the policy. Pretty shady stuff, but that's expected with lyft at this point.

My guess is that they want to know all of your accident history that happens on private property, as it is not reported on background checks.


----------



## Sariandan

nonononodrivethru said:


> Contacted both Lyft and Geico on this matter. It seems that they rolled out this promotion a few months ago without telling existing drivers and requiring you to add lyft as an interest on the policy. Pretty shady stuff, but that's expected with lyft at this point.
> 
> My guess is that they want to know all of your accident history that happens on private property, as it is not reported on background checks.


You having commercial auto insurance greatly reduces their risk and liability as you are more likely to file through your carrier with a lower deductible. That's more likely the incentive. They have some crappy low maximum amount per year that they'll pay on this, though.


----------



## nonononodrivethru

Sariandan said:


> You having commercial auto insurance greatly reduces their risk and liability as you are more likely to file through your carrier with a lower deductible. That's more likely the incentive. They have some crappy low maximum amount per year that they'll pay on this, though.


When I signed up, they required rideshare insurance. Geico was simply the best option for me. The way the contract is set up and the legal application of their insurance, their insurance doesn't kick in until there's a passenger in a car. Rideshare insurance simply covers you for when you're driving to get the passenger or the delivery. After the delivery item or the passenger is in your car, that's when the rideshare companiy's insurance takes effect


----------



## Sariandan

nonononodrivethru said:


> When I signed up, they required rideshare insurance. Geico was simply the best option for me. The way the contract is set up and the legal application of their insurance, their insurance doesn't kick in until there's a passenger in a car. Rideshare insurance simply covers you for when you're driving to get the passenger or the delivery. After the delivery item or the passenger is in your car, that's when the rideshare companiy's insurance takes effect


This is no longer true. You are covered by their liability policy when your app is on and may have other coverages when you accept a ride until the end.


----------



## nonononodrivethru

Sariandan said:


> This is no longer true. You are covered by their liability policy when your app is on and may have other coverages when you accept a ride until the end.


We're probably better off having it the old way dealing with the $500 deductible instead of dealing with lyft's ridiculous $2,000 deductible.


----------



## islanddriver

nonononodrivethru said:


> We're probably better off having it the old way dealing with the $500 deductible instead of dealing with lyft's ridiculous $2,000 deductible.


But not comp. And only third party liability which means you're not covered yourself only who you hit that's what uber gives you


----------



## Sariandan

islanddriver said:


> But not comp. And only third party liability which means you're not covered yourself only who you hit that's what uber gives you


You have comp/collision if you have it on your personal policy.

As far as liability... liability is never for you. Even on your personal policy, liability only covers someone you hit and property you damage. Nothing new there.

This is why I carry a full commercial policy. I'm an independent contractor. I don't depend on their coverage.


----------



## islanddriver

Sariandan said:


> You have comp/collision if you have it on your personal policy.
> 
> As far as liability... liability is never for you. Even on your personal policy, liability only covers someone you hit and property you damage. Nothing new there.
> 
> This is why I carry a full commercial policy. I'm an independent contractor. I don't depend on their coverage.


From what I understand in stage 1 Uber does not cover comp and collision . Only in stage 3 & 3 if you Carrie it on your personal policy. At a $1000. Deductable. That's why you need at least a ride share policy. Or commerical.


----------



## Nightdriver27

I have Allstate and when I bought my Prius new I got new car replacement insurance and totaled my car 6mo later they replaced it with a year newer model. I also had the rider for rideshare but wasn't on the app.


----------



## Sariandan

islanddriver said:


> From what I understand in stage 1 Uber does not cover comp and collision . Only in stage 3 & 3 if you Carrie it on your personal policy. At a $1000. Deductable. That's why you need at least a ride share policy. Or commerical.


You are correct. That's why I have a commercial policy. $500 deductible and I don't have to depend on the whims of U/L.


----------



## Christinebitg

Nightdriver27 said:


> I have Allstate and when I bought my Prius new I got new car replacement insurance and totaled my car 6mo later they replaced it with a year newer model. I also had the rider for rideshare but wasn't on the app.


One of the significant differences is that you have the gap coverage and the rideshare app both through All state. Your gap coverage was through Allstate, right?


----------



## uberdriverfornow

As taken from my dad's Gap contract..



> Losses to the vehicle if it is part of a fleet intended for use as a public livery conveyance, or resulting from commercial use.


In all cases I've seen when searching for public livery conveyance it all comes down to whether at the time of the accident you were engaged in livery or commercial use.

If the answer is no then you should be good.

In a worst case scenario, as long as they never paid a claim you can get atleast a prorated refund if you cancel, which you always can before the gap maximum period for claim has passed up.



Grokit said:


> You must have encountered a special situation where RS protected your GAP coverage, but it was the exception, not the rule.
> 
> A RS endorsement on your personal auto insurance plan does not provide any sort of guarantee that the company providing you with GAP financial coverage can't deny your your claim due to your using the car for rideshare, except under rare circumstances.
> 
> For example, if you have your personal auto insurance, a RS rider, and GAP financial insurance all through Progressive Insurance, they guarantee that they will honor your GAP insurance if you car gets totaled in a rideshare-related accident.
> 
> As @jegsmotors said above, doing Rideshare typically invalidates GAP protection because the companies providing this kind of protection are more likely lose money on the policies. The associated high mileage drives down the value of the car faster, leading to higher GAP payouts. So, companies like Progressive, who know you are doing rideshare, are going to price their GAP insurance at a higher rate.


Only if you were engaged in livery at the time of the accident. They can't say that because you did one rideshare ride 3 years ago that they are denying a claim.

Case law history proves it.


----------



## islanddriver

If the gap policy says you can't do commerical work with the auto. It doesn't matter if you were online or not at time of accident. If you ever did ride share with that auto you voided the gap policy.


----------



## Grokit

uberdriverfornow said:


> They can't say that because you did one rideshare ride 3 years ago that they are denying a claim.
> 
> Case law history proves it.


Really? Case law history proves that GAP coverage can not be voided by minimal commercial use, even when the policy specifically prohibits it?

You are going to have to cite your evidence. Simply saying "case law history proves it" is not good enough.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

Grokit said:


> Really? Case law history proves that GAP coverage can not be voided by minimal commercial use, even when the policy specifically prohibits it?
> 
> You are going to have to cite your evidence. Simply saying "case law history proves it" is not good enough.


search for cases and appeals revolving around "public livery conveyance" which is standard language in exclusions for insurance purposes

they can only exclude when the car is being used for public livery conveyance during a loss



islanddriver said:


> If the gap policy says you can't do commerical work with the auto. It doesn't matter if you were online or not at time of accident. If you ever did ride share with that auto you voided the gap policy.


wrong


----------



## Grokit

uberdriverfornow said:


> search for cases and appeals revolving around "public livery conveyance" which is standard language in exclusions for insurance purposes


You want *me* to prove your point for you?!?
&#129318;‍♂&#129318;&#127995;‍♀&#128514;&#128518;&#129315;&#128518;&#128513;

btw, the term is "public OR livery conveyance." A minor, but important distinction, which infers that you don't understand what you are talking about.


----------



## Johnny Mnemonic

Darngap said:


> What should i do.


Pay cash for a used car and stop being a sucker.


----------



## islanddriver

Grokit said:


> You want *me* to prove your point for you?!?
> &#129318;‍♂&#129318;&#127995;‍♀&#128514;&#128518;&#129315;&#128518;&#128513;
> 
> btw, the term is "public OR livery conveyance." A minor, but important distinction, which infers that you don't understand what you are talking about.


Sorry but that no the terms used in any policy I've ever had it's always been commerical or rideshare . The terms you are using I know they use in the UK . I've never seen them in the US.


----------



## Grokit

islanddriver said:


> Sorry but that no the terms used in any policy I've ever had it's always been commerical or rideshare . The terms you are using I know they use in the UK . I've never seen them in the US.


Here's the definition to the term he was using, courtesy of IRMI's glossary. It's a legit US legal term.









Here is how it is used in MA Insurance Law.


----------



## BigJohn

uberdriverfornow said:


> As taken from my dad's Gap contract..
> 
> In all cases I've seen when searching for public livery conveyance it all comes down to whether at the time of the accident you were engaged in livery or commercial use.
> 
> If the answer is no then you should be good.
> 
> In a worst case scenario, as long as they never paid a claim you can get atleast a prorated refund if you cancel, which you always can before the gap maximum period for claim has passed up.
> 
> 
> Only if you were engaged in livery at the time of the accident. They can't say that because you did one rideshare ride 3 years ago that they are denying a claim.
> 
> Case law history proves it.


From what state/country is the insurance you are referring to written in?


----------



## Grokit

@uberdriverfornow, along the same lines - when was the policy written and was it obtained from a dealership, a bank, or an insurance company?

These are important distinctions because after roughly 2016 it became much more common for GAP underwriters to include additional exclusions for rideshare and commercial activities, so your legal case history will have to show that these additional exclusions can also be beat.

Likewise, the type of business that underwrote the GAP coverage also has a big part to play in the case law history or even if there is a case law history. For example, many states allow car dealerships to sell GAP coverage that forces the buyers into arbitration to resolve disagreements by prohibiting them from seeking judicial remedies.


----------



## BigJohn

Grokit said:


> @uberdriverfornow, along the same lines - when was the policy written and was it obtained from a dealership, a bank, or an insurance company?
> 
> These are important distinctions because after roughly 2016 it became much more common for GAP underwriters to include additional exclusions for rideshare and commercial activities, so your legal case history will have to show that these additional exclusions can also be beat.
> 
> Likewise, the type of business that underwrote the GAP coverage also has a big part to play in the case law history or even if there is a case law history. For example, many states allow car dealerships to sell GAP coverage that forces the buyers into arbitration to resolve disagreements by prohibiting them from seeking judicial remedies.


It is pretty much a given that if the vehicle being discussed by the OP is a 2019, it is quite safe to assume the policy was not written in/before 2016.


----------



## Grokit

BigJohn said:


> It is pretty much a given that if the vehicle being discussed by the OP is a 2019, it is quite safe to assume the policy was not written in/before 2016.


True.

@uberdriverfornow didn't realize the complexity of the issue before jumping into the conversation and telling others they were flat out wrong.

The OP hasn't spoken since the first day of the conversation, a week ago. He likely spoke to an attorney and found out that he was hosed, given that he purchased his GAP waiver through his dealership.


----------



## DriveLV

BigJohn said:


> It is pretty much a given that if the vehicle being discussed by the OP is a 2019, it is quite safe to assume the policy was not written in/before 2016.


So, riddle me this. I bought a 1985 DeLorean but my GAP policy on it was underwritten in 1955.

If it helps, I bought the car at Statler Toyota in Hill Valley.

Sincerely,
Doc


----------



## uberdriverfornow

Grokit said:


> You want *me* to prove your point for you?!?
> &#129318;‍♂&#129318;&#127995;‍♀&#128514;&#128518;&#129315;&#128518;&#128513;
> 
> btw, the term is "public OR livery conveyance." A minor, but important distinction, which infers that you don't understand what you are talking about.


let me know when you actually have proof

emojis don't constitute proof

you don't seem to understand that the burden of proof is with the GAP company to prove it does not have to pay a claim



Grokit said:


> Here's the definition to the term he was using, courtesy of IRMI's glossary. It's a legit US legal term.
> 
> View attachment 402526
> 
> Here is how it is used in MA Insurance Law.


and if the OP was using the car for livery at the time of the loss then coverage would not be afforded

very simple



BigJohn said:


> From what state/country is the insurance you are referring to written in?


CA



Grokit said:


> @uberdriverfornow, along the same lines - when was the policy written and was it obtained from a dealership, a bank, or an insurance company?
> 
> These are important distinctions because after roughly 2016 it became much more common for GAP underwriters to include additional exclusions for rideshare and commercial activities, so your legal case history will have to show that these additional exclusions can also be beat.
> 
> Likewise, the type of business that underwrote the GAP coverage also has a big part to play in the case law history or even if there is a case law history. For example, many states allow car dealerships to sell GAP coverage that forces the buyers into arbitration to resolve disagreements by prohibiting them from seeking judicial remedies.


Again, 1) Losses to the vehicle if it is part of a fleet intended for use as a public livery conveyance,

Our cars are not parts of fleets. A fleet is a set of cars owned by a business.

2) or resulting from commercial use.

This specifically implies that the accident itself must come as a "result" of commercial use.

So, in conclusion, as long as the car isnt part of a fleet or being used in actual commercial use at the time of the accident then the claim needs to be paid.

@Grokit

Case closed. You lose. Thanks for playing.


----------



## Christinebitg

uberdriverfornow said:


> you don't seem to understand that the burden of proof is with the GAP company to prove it does not have to pay a claim


You're mistaken about that.

The company that wrote the gap policy has refused to pay. When you get into court, the standard in civil court is preponderance of the evidence.

You may argue that the contract will be construed against the insurance company, because they drafted it, and you'd be right. But it's a very expensive fight to have. With no guarantee of success.

Good luck with finding a good attorney who would take this case on a contingent fee basis. It's not a simple Personal Injury case, for which the only issue is how much the insurer is going to pay.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

Christinebitg said:


> You're mistaken about that.
> 
> The company that wrote the gap policy has refused to pay. When you get into court, the standard in civil court is preponderance of the evidence.
> 
> You may argue that the contract will be construed against the insurance company, because they drafted it, and you'd be right. But it's a very expensive fight to have. With no guarantee of success.
> 
> Good luck with finding a good attorney who would take this case on a contingent fee basis. It's not a simple Personal Injury case, for which the only issue is how much the insurer is going to pay.


you don't understand insurance law, this isn't a lawsuit with some random Joe Shmoe

Insurance companies have a duty to deal fairly with you because of how insurance law works. They have a duty to pay out insurance claims.


----------



## BigJohn

DriveLV said:


> So, riddle me this. I bought a 1985 DeLorean but my GAP policy on it was underwritten in 1955.
> 
> If it helps, I bought the car at Statler Toyota in Hill Valley.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Doc


I am sure you realize there is a big difference in meaning between "written" and "underwritten"



uberdriverfornow said:


> Insurance companies have a duty to deal fairly with you because of how insurance law works. They have a duty to pay out insurance claims.


ROFLMAO

Thank you, I need a great laugh today.

Wow, that is a good one.

Insurance companies have a fiduciary duty to the owners/stock-holders to only pay those claims they are legally obligated to do so.

Can you say conflict of interest? That sums of the Insurance industry as a whole.


----------



## LADryver

The brochure did not indicate there would be any exclusions, being Nissan, and therefore it is false advertising. If only the OP did not give up after reading the first responses. They probably are still upset that they are out all that money. Some people are easy quitters.


----------



## BigJohn

LADryver said:


> The brochure did not indicate there would be any exclusions, being Nissan, and therefore it is false advertising. If only the OP did not give up after reading the first responses. They probably are still upset that they are out all that money. Some people are easy quitters.


ROFLMAO

That is a good one. The brochure did not contain all 10,000 words of the actual written policy. False advertising. LOL

Yep, go ahead, try that argument in court. Make sure to let us know how that goes.


----------



## LADryver

BigJohn said:


> ROFLMAO
> 
> That is a good one. The brochure did not contain all 10,000 words of the actual written policy. False advertising. LOL
> 
> Yep, go ahead, try that argument in court. Make sure to let us know how that goes.


It will win. Like it always does. You quit easily too, perhaps. It does not need to include the whole contract, it only needs to do what I said it did. It did not mention, refer to, allude to, suggest, or indicate, that there are any conditions in which it would not pay. That is a slam dunk that would never make it as far as court. I am not an attorney, but I am a consumer, and from my knowledge of the very basis of consumer law this has a free avenue. Give it to the Better Business Bureau asba Complaint. The BBB will look at the brochure, and inform the dealer that this fail proof contract failed with their name on it. They would offer a resokutiin to the dealer. Pay the customer. And the dealer has reason to do so.


----------



## BigJohn

LADryver said:


> It will win. Like it always does.


Can I have some of what you are smoking?


----------



## LADryver

BigJohn said:


> Can I have some of what you are smoking?


look at the edit.


----------



## BigJohn

LADryver said:


> look at the edit.


Makes absolutely no difference what so ever. Contract is not signed on a brochure. Responsibility entirely resides upon anyone who signs a contract to read and understand the contract that is being signed.

Now, if the brochure STATED one thing (such as for this case commercial and/or rideshare service IS NOT excluded) and the contract stipulated differently, then and only then you may have an argument about false advertising, but again not about breach of contract.

But thanks for the continued laughs.


----------



## LADryver

BigJohn said:


> Makes absolutely no difference what so ever. Contract is not signed on a brochure. Responsibility entirely resides upon anyone who signs a contract to read and understand the contract that is being signed.
> 
> Now, if the brochure STATED one thing (such as for this case commercial and/or rideshare service IS NOT excluded) and the contract stipulated differently, then and only then you may have an argument about false advertising, but again not about breach of contract.
> 
> But thanks for the continued laughs.


Consumerism is a thing. The contract was misrepresented. Sales people push. But since you read all fine print it would not apply to you.


----------



## Christinebitg

uberdriverfornow said:


> you don't understand insurance law, this isn't a lawsuit with some random Joe Shmoe
> 
> Insurance companies have a duty to deal fairly with you because of how insurance law works. They have a duty to pay out insurance claims.


I understand it perfectly well. I've worked in the insurance industry for the last 10 years.

If they won't pay, your only remedy is to file suit. And depending on what state law is where you are, you may or may not be able to recover attorneys fees. And that's if you win.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

BigJohn said:


> I am sure you realize there is a big difference in meaning between "written" and "underwritten"
> 
> 
> ROFLMAO
> 
> Thank you, I need a great laugh today.
> 
> Wow, that is a good one.
> 
> Insurance companies have a fiduciary duty to the owners/stock-holders to only pay those claims they are legally obligated to do so.
> 
> Can you say conflict of interest? That sums of the Insurance industry as a whole.


they do not have a fiduciary duty to us since they are not representing our interests, they simply have a duty to pay claims promptly when called for under the contract

in other words they can't just drag things out cause they feel like it


----------



## Christinebitg

uberdriverfornow said:


> in other words they can't just drag things out cause they feel like it


Legally that's correct. But as a practical matter, that doesn't mean it can't happen sometimes.


----------



## BigJohn

uberdriverfornow said:


> they do not have a fiduciary duty to us since they are not representing our interests, they simply have a duty to pay claims promptly when called for under the contract
> 
> in other words they can't just drag things out cause they feel like it


1) The fiduciary duty is to the owners/stock-holders of the company. That does not include customers, unless the customer has shares of the company. That is business 101. Maybe look up the definition of fiduciary? 
2) Insurance companies are a business, and as such must show and make a profit. THAT creates the fiduciary duty to the owner(s) if privately held or shock-holders if publicly held. 
3) There is a big difference in how we, John Q. Public, the customer of the insurance company believes the company should act, and how under their fiduciary duty to it's owner/stock-holders it must act.
4) Generally speaking, the job of a claims adjuster is to find a way to pay out the least amount possible to the customer for a claim in order to protect the fiduciary duty of the company to it's owner/stock-holders.
5) The legal obligations to the customers of an insurance customer is an unacknowledged and hidden conflict-of-interest with its legal obligations to it's customers.


----------



## Diamondraider

Grokit said:


> Really? Case law history proves that GAP coverage can not be voided by minimal commercial use, even when the policy specifically prohibits it?
> 
> You are going to have to cite your evidence. Simply saying "case law history proves it" is not good enough.


I believe Dad is the source.



uberdriverfornow said:


> you don't understand insurance law, this isn't a lawsuit with some random Joe Shmoe
> 
> Insurance companies have a duty to deal fairly with you because of how insurance law works. They have a duty to pay out insurance claims.


I think the shareholders would disagree with the "duty to pay out claims"



uberdriverfornow said:


> you don't understand insurance law, this isn't a lawsuit with some random Joe Shmoe
> 
> Insurance companies have a duty to deal fairly with you because of how insurance law works. They have a duty to pay out insurance claims.


I think the shareholders would disagree with the "duty to pay out claims"


LADryver said:


> It will win. Like it always does. You quit easily too, perhaps. It does not need to include the whole contract, it only needs to do what I said it did. It did not mention, refer to, allude to, suggest, or indicate, that there are any conditions in which it would not pay. That is a slam dunk that would never make it as far as court. I am not an attorney, but I am a consumer, and from my knowledge of the very basis of consumer law this has a free avenue. Give it to the Better Business Bureau asba Complaint. The BBB will look at the brochure, and inform the dealer that this fail proof contract failed with their name on it. They would offer a resokutiin to the dealer. Pay the customer. And the dealer has reason to do so.


the signed contract is the only binding documents

Brochures must be accurate, but not comprehensive. And the penalty is from the FTC, and likely no fine.

e.g ABC dealerships sells 100,000 mi extended warranties. Buyer sees the brochure and tells wifey to get the extra coverage..."we'll be covered stem to stern for the first 136k miles! What a deal. We will never have repair bills"

TRUTH...Only limited parts and labor are covered after the initial factory warranty (36k) and some of that is on a depreciation schedule to prevent ever fully replacing anything. And the policy is actually good for only 64k miles.

***i feel equally wronged by these shenanigans, but after I have a quick pity party, I move on to how I will prevent this in the future..


----------



## uberdriverfornow

Diamondraider said:


> I believe Dad is the source.
> 
> 
> I think the shareholders would disagree with the "duty to pay out claims"
> 
> 
> I think the shareholders would disagree with the "duty to pay out claims"
> 
> the signed contract is the only binding documents
> 
> Brochures must be accurate, but not comprehensive. And the penalty is from the FTC, and likely no fine.
> 
> e.g ABC dealerships sells 100,000 mi extended warranties. Buyer sees the brochure and tells wifey to get the extra coverage..."we'll be covered stem to stern for the first 136k miles! What a deal. We will never have repair bills"
> 
> TRUTH...Only limited parts and labor are covered after the initial factory warranty (36k) and some of that is on a depreciation schedule to prevent ever fully replacing anything. And the policy is actually good for only 64k miles.
> 
> ***i feel equally wronged by these shenanigans, but after I have a quick pity party, I move on to how I will prevent this in the future..


nobody cares what the shareholders think

it's what the insurance commissioners office thinks that matters


----------



## BigJohn

uberdriverfornow said:


> nobody cares what the shareholders think
> 
> it's what the insurance commissioners office thinks that matters


Translation: uberdriverfornow has no idea of how the for-profit insurance industry actually works.


----------



## Grokit

uberdriverfornow said:


> If the OP was using the car for livery at the time of the loss then coverage would not be afforded
> 
> very simple
> 
> 
> CA
> 
> 
> Again, 1) Losses to the vehicle if it is part of a fleet intended for use as a public livery conveyance,
> 
> Our cars are not parts of fleets. A fleet is a set of cars owned by a business.
> 
> 2) or resulting from commercial use.
> 
> This specifically implies that the accident itself must come as a "result" of commercial use.
> 
> So, in conclusion, as long as the car isnt part of a fleet or being used in actual commercial use at the time of the accident then the claim needs to be paid.
> 
> @Grokit
> 
> Case closed. You lose. Thanks for playing.


You gotta be trolling this discussion. You can't really believe all these ludicrous things you've posted...

I've been putting off responding until now because I'm 45% convinced that you're trolling us and wasting our time.

I originally posted this:










Then you jumped into the conversation, telling me and everyone else with similar views that we were wrong because you did a little legal research on an old term in your dad's 2014 GAP contract and concluded that "case law proves" that the OP's GAP coverage can't be denied if he wasn't doing "livery" at the time of the accident



uberdriverfornow said:


> Only if you were engaged in livery at the time of the accident. ... Case law history proves it.


Why are you soooo stuck on "livery"? The OP's claim was denied because the contract excluded "Commercial use." Finding an exception to the livery clause is useless if you can't also find an exception to commercial use. Even your father's contract excluded commercial use. Solely focusing on livery makes no sense, but then... little of what you have said makes sense to me.

Hopefully, this answer from an attorney to someone in the OP's position will finally get through to you -


----------



## uberdriverfornow

Grokit said:


> You gotta be trolling this discussion. You can't really believe all these ludicrous things you've posted...
> 
> I've been putting off responding until now because I'm 45% convinced that you're trolling us and wasting our time.
> 
> I originally posted this:
> 
> View attachment 403398
> 
> 
> Then you jumped into the conversation, telling me and everyone else with similar views that we were wrong because you did a little legal research on an old term in your dad's 2014 GAP contract and concluded that "case law proves" that the OP's GAP coverage can't be denied if he wasn't doing "livery" at the time of the accident
> 
> Why are you soooo stuck on "livery"? The OP's claim was denied because the contract excluded "Commercial use." Finding an exception to the livery clause is useless if you can't also find an exception to commercial use. Even your father's contract excluded commercial use. Solely focusing on livery makes no sense, but then... little of what you have said makes sense to me.
> 
> Hopefully, this answer from an attorney to someone in the OP's position will finally get through to you -
> 
> View attachment 403412
> 
> View attachment 403413


Do you not understand that nothing you posted specifically states that GAP coverage doesn't apply when you have an accident while not online ? You keep acting smart but I have yet to see anything smart come from you.

Instead of posting random internet postings, how about posting real proof that GAP insurance will never cover any loss where a driver was not online at the time of the total loss ?

I'll wait.



BigJohn said:


> Translation: uberdriverfornow has no idea of how the for-profit insurance industry actually works.


Prove it. I have completely backed up my claims with proof from an actual GAP contract. All you do is talk.


----------



## Grokit

This is pointless. I’m out.


----------



## BlowCareer

Should have bought Banana Republic insurance for a little more.


----------



## 2starDriver

I’m confused assume you have no rideshare endorsement. they willing to pay 25k but not the gap interesting. They should’ve refuse to pay 25k too if their excuse is rideshate


----------



## BigJohn

2starDriver said:


> I'm confused assume you have no rideshare endorsement. they willing to pay 25k but not the gap interesting. They should've refuse to pay 25k too if their excuse is rideshate


No confusion at all, if you think about it.

His personal auto insurance policy was through company A. The "GAP" policy bought as part of the purchase of the vehicle was through company B.


----------



## 2starDriver

BigJohn said:


> No confusion at all, if you think about it.
> 
> His personal auto insurance policy was through company A. The "GAP" policy bought as part of the purchase of the vehicle was through company B.


I'm sorry I missed that. I always recommend buy the gap thru insurance company. Dealers give the gap for life of loan. But if you sell or totaled it the money is wasted. Insurance is the way to go for like $4 a month


----------



## 2starDriver

any update on this?


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer

TomTheAnt said:


> Most likely not. You got what the car is worth from the settlement. Insurance companies are not interested what you owe for your car. The rest is between you and the other driver. Especially since you broke the gap contract by using it for rideshare when it is not allowed.
> 
> Next question is then that why the finance guy sold you the gap insurance knowing you are doing rideshare? I know, I know... That's purely a rhetorical question.


That's totally relevant if taken to small claims court because it undermines good faith in the transaction, especially if you mentioned rideshare on any documentation at the dealer.


----------



## peteyvavs

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


I would consult with an attorney and file a fraud suit against the dealership. Most GAP coverage from a dealership would have covered you. This dealer most likely sold you a policy from a mom and pop operation that doesn't pay out on anything.


----------



## BigJohn

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> That's totally relevant if taken to small claims court because it undermines good faith in the transaction, especially if you mentioned rideshare on any documentation at the dealer.


No such thing as "good faith" in a transaction that requires a written signed contract. Obviously, somewhere in that written contract is the language making rideshare use a violation of the contract or something to that affect.



peteyvavs said:


> I would consult with an attorney and file a fraud suit against the dealership. Most GAP coverage from a dealership would have covered you. This dealer most likely sold you a policy from a mom and pop operation that doesn't pay out on anything.


NO, most GAP coverage from a dealership for a normal personal vehicle transaction WILL NOT INCLUDE coverage for commercial use of the vehicle.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer

BigJohn said:


> No such thing as "good faith" in a transaction that requires a written signed contract. Obviously, somewhere in that written contract is the language making rideshare use a violation of the contract or something to that affect.
> 
> NO, most GAP coverage from a dealership for a normal personal vehicle transaction WILL NOT INCLUDE coverage for commercial use of the vehicle.


Actually there is, a judge can throw out a contract. It really depends on circumstances.


----------



## peteyvavs

BigJohn said:


> No such thing as "good faith" in a transaction that requires a written signed contract. Obviously, somewhere in that written contract is the language making rideshare use a violation of the contract or something to that affect.
> 
> NO, most GAP coverage from a dealership for a normal personal vehicle transaction WILL NOT INCLUDE coverage for commercial use of the vehicle.


The dealership verbally implied that he was covered even though he/she knew he was using the car for rideshare. That's why he has a legitimate argument to sue the dealership.
F&I guys omit things when they are doing the paperwork and up selling you warranties, by omitting these facts they get themselves into a bind.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer

peteyvavs said:


> The dealership verbally implied that he was covered even though he/she knew he was using the car for rideshare. That's why he has a legitimate argument to sue the dealership.
> F&I guys omit things when they are doing the paperwork and up selling you warranties, by omitting these facts they get themselves into a bind.


There needs to be tangible proof. The dealer will lie to wiggle out of $9k.


----------



## peteyvavs

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> There needs to be tangible proof. The dealer will lie to wiggle out of $9k.


It'll cost the dealership more in bad publicity, they usually settle.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer

peteyvavs said:


> It'll cost the dealership more in bad publicity, they usually settle.


 Stuff like this happens all the time, it's not going to make the news.


----------



## peteyvavs

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Stuff like this happens all the time, it's not going to make the news.


Doesn't have to, word of mouth has a real impact.


----------



## BigJohn

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Actually there is, a judge can throw out a contract. It really depends on circumstances.


True, if there is circumstances surrounding the validity of the contract itself.



peteyvavs said:


> The dealership verbally implied that he was covered even though he/she knew he was using the car for rideshare. That's why he has a legitimate argument to sue the dealership.
> F&I guys omit things when they are doing the paperwork and up selling you warranties, by omitting these facts they get themselves into a bind.


Outside the existance of a written signed valid contract, yes. But if the OP had bothered to read the contract first, he would have seen the exclusion. Just because he failed to read what he signed, does not mean he can sue for something said verbally.


----------



## peteyvavs

BigJohn said:


> True, if there is circumstances surrounding the validity of the contract itself.
> 
> Outside the existance of a written signed valid contract, yes. But if the OP had bothered to read the contract first, he would have seen the exclusion. Just because he failed to read what he signed, does not mean he can sue for something said verbally.


You are pressured when buying a car by the salesman and F&I rep. I would sue, judges know how deceptive and unscrupulous dealerships are.


----------



## BigJohn

peteyvavs said:


> You are pressured when buying a car by the salesman and F&I rep. I would sue, judges know how deceptive and unscrupulous dealerships are.


Funny, since I was able to resist their sales pitches when I have purchased new vehicles.


----------



## peteyvavs

BigJohn said:


> Funny, since I was able to resist their sales pitches when I have purchased new vehicles.


It's not the pitch that's the only problem, it's rushing you through the signing that is a problem. You're not given the time to read all the documents, just the word of the F&I people.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer

BigJohn said:


> No such thing as "good faith" in a transaction that requires a written signed contract. Obviously, somewhere in that written contract is the language making rideshare use a violation of the contract or something to that affect.
> 
> NO, most GAP coverage from a dealership for a normal personal vehicle transaction WILL NOT INCLUDE coverage for commercial use of the vehicle.


I posted a screenshot defining the legality of a good faith transaction and what it means in contract law. You were proven wrong on this one, move on.


----------



## BigJohn

peteyvavs said:


> It's not the pitch that's the only problem, it's rushing you through the signing that is a problem. You're not given the time to read all the documents, just the word of the F&I people.


Nope, you have the last right to walk away. Oh wait, let me guess, you are some one that owns a time share.



TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> I posted a screenshot defining the legality of a good faith transaction and what it means in contract law. You were proven wrong on this one, move on.


Yep, you sure did, of one part of what was there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_faith_(law)
If you read through it and read other information available publicly, that is between parties to the contract. In this case, the dealer is NOT a party to the contract, only a broker for the sale of the contract.

When the written contract explicitly states an inclusion, and the broker/agent verbally says the exclusion does not exist, a judge is going to say what is written in the contract holds true.

"Implied Good Faith" applies to the contract when a question of the intent of something in the contract is called into question. That is not the case with "commercial usage of the covered vehicle is prohibited" and some one doing rideshare service with the vehicle. That is clear cut, no question about it.

NOW, if there was some sort of proof that the dealer acting as the broker for the sale of the GAP insurance contract stated clearly that rideshare service under the GAP insurance contract was indeed covered, then and only then would there be grounds for a suit against the dealer acting as the broker. But, that would require PROOF of what was said. But that would have no bearing whatsoever on the contract itself.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer

BigJohn said:


> Nope, you have the last right to walk away. Oh wait, let me guess, you are some one that owns a time share.
> 
> 
> Yep, you sure did, of one part of what was there.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_faith_(law)
> If you read through it and read other information available publicly, that is between parties to the contract. In this case, the dealer is NOT a party to the contract, only a broker for the sale of the contract.
> 
> When the written contract explicitly states an inclusion, and the broker/agent verbally says the exclusion does not exist, a judge is going to say what is written in the contract holds true.
> 
> "Implied Good Faith" applies to the contract when a question of the intent of something in the contract is called into question. That is not the case with "commercial usage of the covered vehicle is prohibited" and some one doing rideshare service with the vehicle. That is clear cut, no question about it.
> 
> NOW, if there was some sort of proof that the dealer acting as the broker for the sale of the GAP insurance contract stated clearly that rideshare service under the GAP insurance contract was indeed covered, then and only then would there be grounds for a suit against the dealer acting as the broker. But, that would require PROOF of what was said. But that would have no bearing whatsoever on the contract itself.


Reread my earlier post. I said you will need evidence of the dealer and/or lender knowing you did rideshare at the issuing of the contract. I'm no fool the dealer and lender will lie their pants off to get out of paying out money.

I actually have evidence of such myself. Not just verbal but written evidence that the dealer and lender knew of potential rideshare usage.


----------



## BigJohn

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Reread my earlier post. I said you will need evidence of the dealer and/or lender knowing you did rideshare at the issuing of the contract. I'm no fool the dealer and lender will lie their pants off to get out of paying out money.
> 
> I actually have evidence of such myself. Not just verbal but written evidence that the dealer and lender knew of potential rideshare usage.


Sounds like then you should be talking to a lawyer. Not sure why you are posting here.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer

BigJohn said:


> Sounds like then you should be talking to a lawyer. Not sure why you are posting here.


Why would I need to talk to a lawyer?


----------



## peteyvavs

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Reread my earlier post. I said you will need evidence of the dealer and/or lender knowing you did rideshare at the issuing of the contract. I'm no fool the dealer and lender will lie their pants off to get out of paying out money.
> 
> I actually have evidence of such myself. Not just verbal but written evidence that the dealer and lender knew of potential rideshare usage.


If one used Uber/ Lyft as a job to show income then the dealership knew, I myself used Uber as income and was told that the GAP and warranties would be honored.


----------



## Unleaded

SuzeCB said:


> You're screwed.
> 
> This is why it's a bad idea to U/L in a car you have a loan on. Even with loan gap insurance AND Rideshare Endorsement on your personal policy. The only thing you COULD have done, beforehand, was make sure you never owe more than the Blue Book value of your car.
> 
> Even if you tried to sue the guy that hit you, the highest amount you could get for your car will be Blue Book, and, if your insurance company already paid the loan holder that amount, the other guy or his insurance will pay them, not you.
> 
> Some really bad business decisions here. We all make at least some, you just got caught in yours. I'm sorry you didn't know what you were getting into and risking.


Does Uber or Lyft offer any direct or all-inclusive insurance solutions which could have helped in this situation?



peteyvavs said:


> If one used Uber/ Lyft as a job to show income then the dealership knew, I myself used Uber as income and was told that the GAP and warranties would be honored.


When dealing with insurance carriers or extended warranty providers, it is important to determine if Uber or Lyft rideshare use of your vehicle is considered as "Commercial Use". In certain circles, it may be considered as Commercial Yse and in others it is not! Does anyone know the difference?


----------



## SuzeCB

Unleaded said:


> Does Uber or Lyft offer any direct or all-inclusive insurance solutions which could have helped in this situation?


Nope.

Only thing they offer is a personal injury/short-term disability insurance plan you can purchase for $0.0375/mile.


----------



## peteyvavs

SuzeCB said:


> Nope.
> 
> Only thing they offer is a personal injury/short-term disability insurance plan you can purchase for $0.0375/mile.


Drivers don't make enough to purchase this insurance. If a driver drives 500 miles a week it'll cost 18.75 times 4 weeks 75.00, thats a big chunk of drivers earning at current rates.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

peteyvavs said:


> Drivers don't make enough to purchase this insurance. If a driver drives 500 miles a week it'll cost 18.75 times 4 weeks 75.00, thats a big chunk of drivers earning at current rates.


if you don't have actual rideshare insurance, keep in mind that Ubers insurance DOES NOT cover drivers in any way, shape, or form

it is strictly a 3rd party insurance, covering everyone but the driver's injuries

it's best to get it unless you have your own rideshare insurance like State Farm or Esurance offer


----------



## peteyvavs

uberdriverfornow said:


> if you don't have actual rideshare insurance, keep in mind that Ubers insurance DOES NOT cover drivers in any way, shape, or form
> 
> it is strictly a 3rd party insurance, covering everyone but the driver's injuries
> 
> it's best to get it unless you have your own rideshare insurance like State Farm or Esurance offer


Never trust Uber or Lyft, they'll screw you 7 ways to Sunday.


----------



## SuzeCB

uberdriverfornow said:


> if you don't have actual rideshare insurance, keep in mind that Ubers insurance DOES NOT cover drivers in any way, shape, or form
> 
> it is strictly a 3rd party insurance, covering everyone but the driver's injuries
> 
> it's best to get it unless you have your own rideshare insurance like State Farm or Esurance offer


But even your own rideshare insurance won't cover your lost earnings from driving rideshare.

This is your "workers comp" coverage that, if the proposed law goes through the Fed, you will have to get anyway.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

SuzeCB said:


> But even your own rideshare insurance won't cover your lost earnings from driving rideshare.
> 
> This is your "workers comp" coverage that, if the proposed law goes through the Fed, you will have to get anyway.


agreed, there are a few perks that are better than actual rideshare insurance, including also death benefits and survivor benefits as well

but rideshare covers your car during all periods instead of just 2 and 3 as Uber and Lyft does, and with possibly a smaller deductible if you have a smaller one

can you elaborate on the Federal law you are referring to ?



peteyvavs said:


> Never trust Uber or Lyft, they'll screw you 7 ways to Sunday.


it's actual pretty crazy that uber's insurance covers everyone but drivers...i didnt even realize it until i saw the faq's if the option injury protection coverage last year


----------



## LADryver

Christinebitg said:


> I understand it perfectly well. I've worked in the insurance industry for the last 10 years.
> 
> If they won't pay, your only remedy is to file suit. And depending on what state law is where you are, you may or may not be able to recover attorneys fees. And that's if you win.


GAP is a contract, not insurance, unless you buy it from your insurance company. I was shocked when a Nissan dealer suggested my Toyota GAP might not pay after the car was totaled. They did pay. But I never realized there were exclusions. I might accept if the car was Paper Tigered, but in an innocent loss it should pay. The OP said it did not pay because he refinanced. The loan that was the basis of the contract was paid off. GAP was apparently not discussed beyond that.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

LADryver said:


> GAP is a contract, not insurance, unless you buy it from your insurance company. I was shocked when a Nissan dealer suggested my Toyota GAP might not pay after the car was totaled. They did pay. But I never realized there were exclusions. I might accept if the car was Paper Tigered, but in an innocent loss it should pay. The OP said it did not pay because he refinanced. The loan that was the basis of the contract was paid off. GAP was apparently not discussed beyond that.


What it comes down to is is your signature on the terms and conditions document. They can't just say there is a list of terms and conditions that you not only never saw but never agreed to.

They can't sell you the contract and say later simply that it has all these exclusions.


----------



## LADryver

uberdriverfornow said:


> What it comes down to is is your signature on the terms and conditions document. They can't just say there is a list of terms and conditions that you not only never saw but never agreed to.
> 
> They can't sell you the contract and say later simply that it has all these exclusions.


That is true. In this case the dramatic twist was that the loan it covered got paid off. Another subsequent loan was not tied to the contract. The customer as usual for many, was not aware.


----------



## DriveLV

LADryver said:


> The OP said it did not pay because he refinanced. The loan that was the basis of the contract was paid off. GAP was apparently not discussed beyond that.


I missed this part? I went back and re-read the OPs messages but still don't see where he said this? Can you point out what I'm missing?


----------



## LADryver

DriveLV said:


> I missed this part? I went back and re-read the OPs messages but still don't see where he said this? Can you point out what I'm missing?


You are right. Another totalled car got refinanced in a different thread.


----------



## DriveLV

LADryver said:


> You are right. Another totalled car got refinanced in a different thread.


Thanks ... thought I was crazy... Unfortunately the OP disappeared and never came back so we're unlikely to hear any updates on whether OP was able to fight the GAP company or dealership via legit legal maneuvering or threats of bad PR.


----------



## SuzeCB

uberdriverfornow said:


> agreed, there are a few perks that are better than actual rideshare insurance, including also death benefits and survivor benefits as well
> 
> but rideshare covers your car during all periods instead of just 2 and 3 as Uber and Lyft does, and with possibly a smaller deductible if you have a smaller one
> 
> can you elaborate on the Federal law you are referring to?


Sami's Law. They're calling it the same thing.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

SuzeCB said:


> Sami's Law. They're calling it the same thing.


what does Sami's law have to do with workers comp ?


----------



## SuzeCB

uberdriverfornow said:


> what does Sami's law have to do with workers comp ?


Ask your Congressmen & Senators.


----------



## uberdriverfornow

SuzeCB said:


> Ask your Congressmen & Senators.


Why are you being so evasive about an uncomplicated question ?

I agree that Sami's Law is a complete and total joke but I'm trying to see the comparison you made to worker's compensation.


----------



## Ballermaris

Darngap said:


> I already have an injury attorney thanks


Yeah please make sure they only do accident injury claims and not bankruptcy, immigration etc. If you can, I recommend only personal injury firms. Get the first and foremost., and do not take the first offer. Rear ender is worth $500,000 to $750,000 because you do have medical bills coming.


----------



## SuzeCB

uberdriverfornow said:


> Why are you being so evasive about an uncomplicated question ?
> 
> I agree that Sami's Law is a complete and total joke but I'm trying to see the comparison you made to worker's compensation.


I do apologize. I was incorrect. I was mixing up issues in my own state, which is "investigating" whether U/L are employers or whatever. In prep of that, I believe, an amendment to the driver contract was sent out saying that drivers will be responsible for paying for their own WC coverage (which, I believe, the optional insurance would qualify as, POSSIBLY).

All of this is going on at the same time as NJ Sami's Law takes effect on March 20th, and a bill is working it's way through the House of Reps. that would require all other states to pass laws mimicking its provisions, or lose funding.

Basically, I got tangled in the legal knot. LOL


----------



## uberdriverfornow

SuzeCB said:


> I do apologize. I was incorrect. I was mixing up issues in my own state, which is "investigating" whether U/L are employers or whatever. In prep of that, I believe, an amendment to the driver contract was sent out saying that drivers will be responsible for paying for their own WC coverage (which, I believe, the optional insurance would qualify as, POSSIBLY).
> 
> All of this is going on at the same time as NJ Sami's Law takes effect on March 20th, and a bill is working it's way through the House of Reps. that would require all other states to pass laws mimicking its provisions, or lose funding.
> 
> Basically, I got tangled in the legal knot. LOL


don't worry, it happens to all of us at some point


----------



## Ttown Driver

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


This cat Alexander Shunnarah has more billboards around Alabama than there are Uber/Lyft drivers.
Even more tv commercials EVERY afternoon.
And there are a LOT of drivers.

He is, VERY LITERALLY, a case study in Marketing.

I gotta believe there's at least one shark in L.A.
"Free Consultation"


----------



## Christinebitg

Ttown Driver said:


> This cat Alexander Shunnarah has more billboards around Alabama than there are Uber/Lyft drivers.
> Even more tv commercials EVERY afternoon.
> And there are a LOT of drivers.


That's because personal injury law is a volume business. The attorneys who work for him don't spend a lot of time on each case. Their incentive is to get a quick settlement.


----------



## Ttown Driver

Christinebitg said:


> That's because personal injury law is a volume business. The attorneys who work for him don't spend a lot of time on each case. Their incentive is to get a quick settlement.


your point being?

Give me MY money! The quicker the better!


----------



## Christinebitg

Ttown Driver said:


> your point being?
> 
> Give me MY money! The quicker the better!


So what's your point?

They're not your parents, you know.


----------



## Tony73

Darngap said:


> I made a lot of mistakes buying that car. And a lot of stupid decisions. Finance guy offerred the extended warranty, gap insurance and this century security thingy. And i fell for it. I purchased those addendum too thats why it went upto 34k


First car mistakes... I feel you. Try suing the other driver. If it was ruled he was at fault then he should pick up the tab.


----------



## Nina2

Its a good thing it happened to a Nissan as Nissan CVTS are terrible and make sure your next car is not a Nissan due to the terrible CVT they use



Christinebitg said:


> That's because personal injury law is a volume business. The attorneys who work for him don't spend a lot of time on each case. Their incentive is to get a quick settlement.


He has a Wikipedia article as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Shunnarah


----------



## Hardtime

JaxUberLyft said:


> Your neck should have hurt enough for a precautionary transport to the nearest hospital just to get checked out...
> 
> (Need I go on?)


Bingo....im praying to be hit.


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## 2starDriver

I didn’t read the whole topic what insurance company you insured with?


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## 2Cents

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


That's EXACTLY what you did. Used your vehicle for commercial purposes. Hence why commercial policies are 4 times more than non commercial policies not to mention just about every GAP policy sold has a commercial exclusion on it.
Don't worry it will only take you 38,942 rides to make up the $9,000 loss in your replacement vehicle.

#fübrn


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## 2starDriver

Big mistake for not buying gap from your primary insurance. If they have paid (they knew you were ridesharing and paid most of it you so lucky) trade in value , they were gonna pay it off if you had gap with them. 
i would like to know which company is it?


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## Ttown Driver

Hardtime said:


> Bingo....im praying to be hit.


The other night, a car pulled out of a side street just a bit far...... 
thought for JUST a second but I had pax in the car.


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## Hardtime

Had a similar thought with an 18wheeler


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## uberdriverfornow

Nina2 said:


> Its a good thing it happened to a Nissan as Nissan CVTS are terrible and make sure your next car is not a Nissan due to the terrible CVT they use
> 
> 
> He has a Wikipedia article as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Shunnarah


The main thing if someone has a Nissan with a CVT is to change the CVT fluid every 35k or so.


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## Big Wig !!!

Your story is the same as mine. Last December my car was totaled, and gap won't pay up......Still owe $3500 on a car I no longer own.


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## BigJohn

Big Wig !!! said:


> Your story is the same as mine. Last December my car was totaled, and gap won't pay up......Still owe $3500 on a car I no longer own.


Gap won't pay up.... Because you failed to fully read and understand the policy before doing rideshare?


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## 2starDriver

Big Wig !!! said:


> Your story is the same as mine. Last December my car was totaled, and gap won't pay up......Still owe $3500 on a car I no longer own.


We need more info on this..

were you online? 
at fault? 
any injuries? 
where the gap from?


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## June132017

That old grandma did the boy a favor. He would have been down 9k and then 5k for a transmission.


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## uberdriverfornow

Big Wig !!! said:


> Your story is the same as mine. Last December my car was totaled, and gap won't pay up......Still owe $3500 on a car I no longer own.


then you need to sue them

worst thing that can happen is you lose the $50 for the lawsuit


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## amazinghl

Note to self, never have a car loan.


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## 2Cents




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## Big Lou

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


I have considered GAP insurance since it is supposed to cover your loan if the totaled amount is less than what you owe. I got the rideshare insurance from Farmers since it would cover me whenever I'm not on a pick up or an actual ride. All my vehicles are covered by the Auto Club but since I was driving for U/L they would not cover me, so I shopped around. Farmers, State Farm, Alstate, USAA and a lot of others cover U/L vehicles. 
I try not to put myself in a position where my loan is less than the value of the vehicle, but you never know.


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## 2Cents

That should give you a clue right there...
The ride share insurance is what the states did to key the insurance companies of the hook however they did nothing for GAP.
You used your vehicle for commercial endeavors.
G/L


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## amazinghl

Big Lou said:


> I try not to put myself in a position where my loan is less than the value of the vehicle, but you never know.


The issue is, any new vehicle loan is more than the value of the vehicle itself. Essentially, what you're saying is, don't get a car with loan.


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## Wildgoose

Usually the loan amount is more than Car value because it was added with tax amount, interests and fees (plus dropping price after you signed) unless you make partial down payment. It become gap between your loan amount and your car value.


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## 2starDriver

Wildgoose said:


> Usually the loan amount is more than Car value because it was added with tax amount, interests and fees (plus dropping price after you signed) unless you make partial down payment. It become gap between your loan amount and your car value.


Plus extended warranty, wear tear, high apr lot of addendum


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## XLnoGas

Big Lou said:


> I have considered GAP insurance since it is supposed to cover your loan if the totaled amount is less than what you owe. I got the rideshare insurance from Farmers since it would cover me whenever I'm not on a pick up or an actual ride. All my vehicles are covered by the Auto Club but since I was driving for U/L they would not cover me, so I shopped around. Farmers, State Farm, Alstate, USAA and a lot of others cover U/L vehicles.
> I try not to put myself in a position where my loan is less than the value of the vehicle, but you never know.


I'd never truly trust those rideshare endorsement insurance packages.

Commercial or don't rideshare.


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## 2starDriver

Owning 30k car isn’t dream. Everbody can achieve that. Even if you get paid 15/hr with regular job.

But its a bad dream when u driving for uber, then it turns to a nightmare in case of an accident. 🤫


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## NoPool4Me

Darngap said:


> My car Got totaled. I got rear ended. Im not online during the accident. My primary insurance settled for 25k plus. But i still have remaining balance of 9k. I bought the gap insurance from the dealership.They terminated my claim becuase they said i used it for commercial purposes. What should i do. Its really hard knowing that you're not even at fault. You dont have the car anymore. And you have to pay 9k of your pocket.( my car was 2019 nissan altima SL)


This won't help you, but, it may help others. I bought my gap coverage from my primary auto insurer. Not only was that fairly inexpensive, I'd be surprised if I ever experienced your issue.


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## kcdrvr15

Next time, just a suggestion, check out commercial insurance. 

Get a lawyer, sue the other driver for your loss.


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## 2Cents

kcdrvr15 said:


> Next time, just a suggestion, check out commercial insurance.
> 
> Get a lawyer, sue the other driver for your loss.


Commercial insurance is 4Xs the cost as regular insurance. This is how these "ride-share" companies have been able to get around this.


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## kcdrvr15

2Cents said:


> Commercial insurance is 4Xs the cost as regular insurance. This is how these "ride-share" companies have been able to get around this.


My commercial vehicle for hire insurance is only 2X as expensive :/


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## 2Cents

Good thing you don’t charge your passengers .52 per mile then.


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## kcdrvr15

2Cents said:


> Good thing you don't charge your passengers .52 per mile then.


FD $5, $2.50 mile, $.50 min ÷ covid surcharge $20 per trip. Only accepting requests by appointment only.

I love being an IC


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## NoPool4Me

kcdrvr15 said:


> FD $5, $2.50 mile, $.50 min ÷ covid surcharge $20 per trip. Only accepting requests by appointment only.
> 
> I love being an IC


Who do you drive for? I don't have a way to add a surcharge for covid on Uber.


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## kcdrvr15

I drive for me ! owner/operator/driver ****** Transportation & ********** Cab. To add an covid surcharge on uber/lyft, after accepting request, call them and advise them that you will only accept them for transportation if paid an additional cleaning/service fee of $20 per trip. Ive not had too much push back, usually I do it at the pickup point and have had them cancel and hire me directly, but I try to avoid that ;\ Lyft has been sending me nastygrams saying my account is in danger for bad customer experience, oh-well.

Yes, commercial insurance, around $2300 yearly, that's full coverage not just liability, and business License/for hire permits around$120 year.


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