# Had a bit of a scare last night



## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Since I'm typing my phone this is the condensed version.

2am I get a ping, its a residence. I recognized the street name but not name or house #. I did a pick up there earlier in the day. 2 couples, dropped them off at a resort, I figured it was them or one couple goung home from there or that they put the pickup- dropoff backwads and they were still at the resort. I texted to confirm, they said address was correct. Showed up then called, tbey were at a bar two blocks away. I still figured it was the same group or at least half of the group, they were cool and tipped so i headed to the bar.

Oh this is where the fun starts. It wasnt them, just a drunk couple. She was buzzed but fun, i was giving her a hard time about the pin drop and confirming a wrong address. She got in the front. Guy gets in the back, then gets out and ducks down out of sight, shes yapping on my right, hes opening and closeing the rear drivers door. And tjen ducking out of sight. She asked a question, he gets in behind me, and said something I remember as being a joke then put me in a choke hold.

Shit got real for me right then and quick.

I for the life of me cant remember what he said only that I understood it as a joke, I've been trying all day to remember what he said, its just not there. I do remember that i felt as though i thought it was related to him putting me in the choke hold. I wasn't sure he was joking I wasn't sure he wasn't joking. I wasn't scared or panicked the oppisite i felt extra calm. It got very quiet, and it was like the only thing i could hear was me telling myself how to react. I told him to get his hands off of me 3 times, polite and stearn the first. Less polite and more stearn the second, the third time was get your Effing hands off me. 

I think he was saying something jokingly, i really dont remember. I only remember my thoughts and actions. It was weird, i had many,many thoughts, I remember thinking if i cut him will the blood stain my leather, should i call 911 now or get out of the hold first. I looked at tje picture of my wife and kids wondering if that is the last time I'll see them. I decided joking or not I feel threatened, that I need to take action. I have a razor knife next to my seat between the seat and console. I counted, on 3 i was going to cut. One. I slid my hand onto tje knife and opened it. Two. I turned my head enough tjat i could see him, his head was between the two front seats, i decided to go for his neck instead of his arm. Three. As I started to bring the knife up he let go.

The chick was screaming something. I didnt realize it at the time, it was still quiet to me. I found out later she thought it was a gun. All this happened in about 2 minutes, I cant even guess how long he had his hands on me but I dont think it was very long. 

I got out of the car, and very matter of factly let him know how wrong and dangerous what he did was. I wasnt overly mad, i dont know why. I was still very calm. I let them believe what she saw was a gun.

He did apologize, profusely. He thought she and i knew each other, i guess because of the way we were joking with each other. I believe he meant this only as a joke, not that it makes it okay. I decided to not cancel and take them home. Why? I dont know I knew he didnt mean harm, and i wamted to make sure he understood how stupid and inappropriate his actions were. 

I know, i know i dont need the lecture I really felt that letting him know how wrong and why was better than cancelling. There were a ton of cars out and figured correcting the behavior was the most productive thing i could do right then. 

As i was driving i got a stacked ping, i accepted dropped and picked up the new riders. A minute or five into the trip, it hit me. I started to tremble, my heart has pounding, my legs were shaking. I was fighting back tears. My new riders wanted no part of a conversation and the silence was killing me. It was the longest ride. I dont know, I guess i realized how fast something can really happen, I mean I knew before but this really opened my eyes.

I havent driven today. I barely slept. The more I think about it the more it bothers me. In my heart i know he meany no harm but ... I'm glad I kept my cool, I'm really glad Im not cleaning blood out of my car today. I dont regret completing the trip but I wouldn't if I could do it over. I am really surprised by how hard it hit after the fact. Its not a good feeling, at all.


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## Mrdangerfield (Jan 10, 2016)

Yikes, that is definitely a scary situation. I am glad you made it out safe.

What you should do and should not do is irrelevent, you are going to do what you do, in what way you see fit. As long as you go home at the end of a shift, it's all that matters.


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## SibeRescueBrian (May 10, 2015)

Wow! That could have gone wrong in so many ways. The most important thing is that you're alright, though. I really would hate it if any of you got hurt as a result of doing this. Relax and try to take it easy. Be well and stay safe!


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## maui (Dec 22, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> Since I'm typing my phone this is the condensed version.


Couple of things.

1) Congrats for being alive. This story normally ends with you dead, or with you in a dark alley with no wallet, phone or car.

2) You should have cut him. What is MORE DANGEROUS are people who think this thing is a joke. More people will be hurt thinking the situation is a joke compared to vice versa.

3) You should have called the cops AND UBER at the spot. Drive them home??? You deserve to be the person at the end of #1. Joking or not. That was a physical assault, you were in danger, and as long as Pax think that Uber drivers are a joke, you will get abused, your car will get trashed, and you will get 1* for bending over backwards. That behavior is unacceptable, that persons Uber account should be terminated and they should be appearing before a judge.

4) WAKE UP!!! Cabs have bullet-proof dividers for a reason. Your car doesn't. Next time maybe you will feel the tip of a knife coming from between the seat into your side or the barrel of a gun to the back of your head. If you don't think you have been in danger before, you are not paying attention


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## Uberbrethren (Feb 25, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> Since I'm typing my phone this is the condensed version.
> 
> 2am I get a ping, its a residence. I recognized the street name but not name or house #. I did a pick up there earlier in the day. 2 couples, dropped them off at a resort, I figured it was them or one couple goung home from there or that they put the pickup- dropoff backwads and they were still at the resort. I texted to confirm, they said address was correct. Showed up then called, tbey were at a bar two blocks away. I still figured it was the same group or at least half of the group, they were cool and tipped so i headed to the bar.
> 
> ...


Wow is right. This is horrible and a byproduct of dealing with drunk people. I don't like how the guy got in behind you. Like the others in the thread, I am outraged that you had to go through this. I think you need to contact Uber and say that you have to talk to someone in their security department because a passenger put his hands on you. Don't email the details and deal with a nonsense exchange. Ask them to escalate it in the very first exchange. Just say that you need to talk to the highest ranking security person because this kind of behavior cannot happen and they need to know what kind of things are out there. What if you weren't a calm and composed person?

As for the 'delayed response' you had, makes sense. The shock of the exchange wore off and its dimensions hit you. Am just glad you are OK.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

maui said:


> Couple of things.
> 
> 1) Congrats for being alive. This story normally ends with you dead, or with you in a dark alley with no wallet, phone or car.
> 
> ...


I dont know that i deserve the outcome #1 but yeah... it was pretty stupid letting them stay in my car. I know this. While I know he meant no harm, what if he thought it would be funny to do it again ... what if... I know, I know I know. I did what i did, I can't change that.

if i were to redo it id have called 911. I know he meant no harm, it was a very poor judgement on his behalf and ... i dont know.... I'm... Honestly i dont know what i am or how I'm feeling.

Sunday is family day, my younger kids have soccer then we do something. Beach or boat or just a movie and a board game. Ive bedn an emotional wreck today. Im a grown ass man and I've spent half the day with tears in my eyes and the other half fighting them off. Must be because I barely slept, i cant be this much of a p****.

I'm glad i didnt cut him but i was going to. He took his hands off me and I did not have to, there is no doubt in my mind that I would have followed through.

I have not wached the dashcam footage, I dont want to but at some point i guess i should.


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## Jufkii (Sep 17, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> Since I'm typing my phone this is the condensed version.
> 
> 2am I get a ping, its a residence. I recognized the street name but not name or house #. I did a pick up there earlier in the day. 2 couples, dropped them off at a resort, I figured it was them or one couple goung home from there or that they put the pickup- dropoff backwads and they were still at the resort. I texted to confirm, they said address was correct. Showed up then called, tbey were at a bar two blocks away. I still figured it was the same group or at least half of the group, they were cool and tipped so i headed to the bar.
> 
> ...


This is your condensed version ?


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## Choochie (Jan 4, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> I dont know that i deserve the outcome #1 but yeah... it was pretty stupid letting them stay in my car. I know this. While I know he meant no harm, what if he thought it would be funny to do it again ... what if... I know, I know I know. I did what i did, I can't change that.
> 
> if i were to redo it id have called 911. I know he meant no harm, it was a very poor judgement on his behalf and ... i dont know.... I'm... Honestly i dont know what i am or how I'm feeling.
> 
> ...


Look, glad you didn't have a more devastating situation happen. This guy doesn't know you, so what he did joking or not is reprehensible and unacceptable. You're probably feeling if you report it and they interview that couple then you could get into trouble based on what she thought you had in your hand or if your knife is legal. Is it?
You shouldn't feel bad because it got to you, unless you are used to life and death situations on a daily basis. That's normal man.
Perhaps you should take a few days off or switch your hours to daytime for a while so you can regroup. Sorry to hear!


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> I remember thinking if i cut him will the blood stain my leather,


1st of all very glad things worked without harm to you. The part of the post that is a little disturbing is that you thought of blood stains in your vehicle. Unlike my company, Uber has drivers pick up pax that you know nothing about. And with alcohol mixed into that scenario makes it even more dangerous. I know many Uber drivers treat their own vehicles like their kids. But in no way should that be a thought when your life is in danger or even threatened. Most late night Uber pick ups involve drunk pax. You must ALWAYS be prepared and NEVER hesitate. I was in a thread earlier in the week in which a post stated you have 2 seconds to make a decision in a real life situation. There are classes that teach this and what to expect. It is sad, but it's a reality of our profession. I will guarantee you have a lot closer eye on all your pax from here on out. I'm thankful that we are reading your post on here and not reading your name in the obituary. Good luck in the future and stay safe.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

I was attacked on the freeway by a rider. 
I reported it to Uber, and they called me back to interview me. 

It was easy, and it seems they handle more of these cases than we know about. 

Driving for anyone is not safe. 

Glad you had a weapon. 
I do think you should have dumped them. 
Shock makes for bad decisions.


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## Beur (Apr 14, 2015)

If you decide to report it to Uber, be sure to screenshot the trip details first. I had this happen to me last year, when I reported it to Uber they deleted the trip before the cops arrived. 

Now I screenshot every trip at the start and at the conclusion.


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## OrlandoUberX (Feb 15, 2016)

Glad to hear your safe


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## Fauxknight (Aug 12, 2014)

Uberbrethren said:


> As for the 'delayed response' you had, makes sense. The shock of the exchange wore off and its dimensions hit you. Am just glad you are OK.


Adrenaline doing exactly what it was designed to do, allow us to function and survive long enough in life or death situations to come out alive. It augments you physically, nulls pain, raises your senses to superhuman levels, and seems to almost stop time itself.

After an encounter like that it's best to just stop and go home. You run high for a little bit and get wierdly giddy and chatty. As it starts to pass you crash physically and mentally, a toll from running at such high levels. You start to sweat and stink, and not in a normal way:

http://www.youbeauty.com/life/stress-sweat/


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Glad you're not dead. Now:

1. You let that drag on too long. Do you have any concept how quickly a person can be incapacitated with a choke hold? 10 - 15 seconds give or take a few seconds. You treat that as if someone has a knife to your neck. You don't ask them to let you go you react. That's it. 
2. Your first objective is to get that arm from around your neck which means you slash that arm. He will let go. Flailing around behind you with a knife could end with you cutting yourself or getting the knife taken away from you. 
3. WHY didn't you call the police? 
4. Where is your dash camera footage? 
5....no, I'm not even going to ask why you allowed this person who is obviously drunk, stupid, may be nursing a grudge, and might even have a knife of his own that he didn't pull because he at first believed you had a gun BACK in the car BEHIND you again...I'd like to think you're not suicidal but you're throwing up a lot of flags here, man...


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## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

these type of incidents and assaults by uber passengers are becoming more and more prevalent. if you drive nights you have no one to blame but yourself if you get attacked or killed.


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## JulieM678 (May 3, 2016)

HE MEANT NO HARM? Whoa. You have pretty low standards. That's where the shock came in. And you handled it perfectly.
This just goes to show the effects of alcohol on the limbic system . Nobody ever means to hurt another when they're lit like that. I'm glad that things worked out but the other posters are correct. If you do nothing, that couple will continue to assume that steering wheel monkeys are portable punching bags.

I'm is it venturous is the next guy. I'm female. I would love to drive nights, but commonsense dictates I just don't. Maybe 20 years ago but, there's no money worth chasing after dark.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

uber strike said:


> if you drive nights you have no one to blame but yourself if you get attacked or killed.


Please never utter something so utterly contemptible again.

That's like telling women its their fault if they get raped because they went out at night or that its a murder victims fault because they live in a bad neighborhood. The only people at fault are those that commit the crimes.


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## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

D Town said:


> Please never utter something so utterly contemptible again.
> 
> That's like telling women its their fault if they get raped because they went out at night or that its a murder victims fault because they live in a bad neighborhood. The only people at fault are those that commit the crimes.


not true. if a woman goes out at night, ok. but if she goes out at night and walks the streets at 2 am, and someone offers her a ride and she gets into a strangers car.... come on, what girl in her right mind will do that and jeopardize her life like that. you gotta use wisdom. 
in the same way, uber drivers know risks come with driving at night. drunks are so volatile. you've seen the attacks on You Tube by uber passengers. you've seen that 3 drivers have been killed. and all 3 were working nights. you must use wisdom and not put yourself at risk. 85 cents is not worth your life.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

uber strike said:


> not true. if a woman goes out at night, ok. but if she goes out at night and walks the streets at 2 am, and someone offers her a ride and she gets into a strangers car.... come on, what girl in her right mind will do that and jeopardize her life like that. you gotta use wisdom.
> in the same way, uber drivers know risks come with driving at night. drunks are so volatile. you've seen the attacks on You Tube by uber passengers. you've seen that 3 drivers have been killed. and all 3 were working nights. you must use wisdom and not put yourself at risk. 85 cents is not worth your life.


Most of my driving was at night and I was never attacked. Your contention that its so dangerous as to invite attack is beyond overblown but even if it was spot on the point still stands that no one deserves to be a victim. Period.

On a side note, I know its common for people to just repeat stuff even when its untrue if it supports their claims but one of those Uber drivers was killed at 10am.


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## uber strike (Jan 10, 2016)

D Town said:


> Most of my driving was at night and I was never attacked. Your contention that its so dangerous as to invite attack is beyond overblown but even if it was spot on the point still stands that no one deserves to be a victim. Period.
> 
> On a side note, I know its common for people to just repeat stuff even when its untrue if it supports their claims but one of those Uber drivers was killed at 10am.


none of the 3 uber drivers killed were killed at 10 am.
you may have never been attacked.... i've slept with strippers and i don't have aids but if i would have continued that lifestyle who knows what std's i would have. like i said, you must use wisdom. 85 cents is not worth your life. drive day time and stay away from drunks, and drug dealers. i can only lead you to water.... whatever happens due to your lack of wisdom is on you. you have no one to blame if you don't take heed.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

uber strike said:


> none of the 3 uber drivers killed were killed at 10 am.
> you may have never been attacked.... i've slept with strippers and i don't have aids but if i would have continued that lifestyle who knows what std's i would have. like i said, you must use wisdom. 85 cents is not worth your life. drive day time and stay away from drunks, and drug dealers. i can only lead you to water.... whatever happens due to your lack of wisdom is on you. you have no one to blame if you don't take heed.


There are plenty of cab drivers here who have driven for years and can count on one hand how many times they've been assaulted. Can it happen? You'd be stupid to think otherwise. Is there an elevated risk? Of course there is. Is the risk worth the pay? Nope, hence why I don't drive any more - more for the fact that its just not profitable period than the risk for me. However, to say that its so damn risky that drivers DESERVE to get harmed is asinine beyond reasoning to put it gently.

On a side note, for all the condescension about "wisdom" you apparently don't possess enough of it to use google. Look up Mamadou Ba killed March 6th in Detroit. What time does it say he was killed? Do tell.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> Since I'm typing my phone this is the condensed version.
> 
> 2am I get a ping, its a residence. I recognized the street name but not name or house #. I did a pick up there earlier in the day. 2 couples, dropped them off at a resort, I figured it was them or one couple goung home from there or that they put the pickup- dropoff backwads and they were still at the resort. I texted to confirm, they said address was correct. Showed up then called, tbey were at a bar two blocks away. I still figured it was the same group or at least half of the group, they were cool and tipped so i headed to the bar.
> 
> ...


You never know.

Some people thought the Manson family were joking.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> I dont know that i deserve the outcome #1 but yeah... it was pretty stupid letting them stay in my car. I know this. While I know he meant no harm, what if he thought it would be funny to do it again ... what if... I know, I know I know. I did what i did, I can't change that.
> 
> if i were to redo it id have called 911. I know he meant no harm, it was a very poor judgement on his behalf and ... i dont know.... I'm... Honestly i dont know what i am or how I'm feeling.
> 
> ...


I don't think he will do it again.

Question is,what would have happened if she wouldn't have screamed gun ?

What if you cut his jugular,he bled out ,and she testified you attacked him for no reason?

You should call Uber simply to establish what happened.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> I don't think he will do it again.
> 
> Question is,what would have happened if she wouldn't have screamed gun ?
> 
> ...


Hence, why I say no one should drive anywhere without a dash camera that records the inside as well as the outside. It baffles me to no end why drivers don't have one.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Choochie said:


> Look, glad you didn't have a more devastating situation happen. This guy doesn't know you, so what he did joking or not is reprehensible and unacceptable. You're probably feeling if you report it and they interview that couple then you could get into trouble based on what she thought you had in your hand or if your knife is legal. Is it?
> You shouldn't feel bad because it got to you, unless you are used to life and death situations on a daily basis. That's normal man.
> Perhaps you should take a few days off or switch your hours to daytime for a while so you can regroup. Sorry to hear!


No one saw the knife.

He can say it was a ballpoint pen.

Prove otherwise.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> No one saw the knife.
> 
> He can say it was a ballpoint pen.
> 
> Prove otherwise.


Frantic calls from a "victim" and his witness is enough to get him in hot water. Then we'll have another news story about some crazy Uber driver going postal on some poor innocent pax. Why, don't you remember the pax who was forced to tuck and roll out of a moving Uber when he tried to kidnap her?


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

RockinEZ said:


> I was attacked on the freeway by a rider.
> I reported it to Uber, and they called me back to interview me.
> 
> It was easy, and it seems they handle more of these cases than we know about.
> ...


I have not received a call, I imagine it will happen tomorrow. I will email them again I perhaps a little more detailed.

I had forgotten i put the knife down there for a second. I felt very helpless at first. Its a feeling i did not like, at all. I dont like the fact that i almost cut the guys throat over what was in essance a prank. I know I would have been justified, but still...


Beur said:


> If you decide to report it to Uber, be sure to screenshot the trip details first. I had this happen to me last year, when I reported it to Uber they deleted the trip before the cops arrived.
> 
> Now I screenshot every trip at the start and at the conclusion.


Pp


D Town said:


> Hence, why I say no one should drive anywhere without a dash camera that records the inside as well as the outside. It baffles me to no end why drivers don't have one.


I have a dash cam.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> I have not received a call, I imagine it will happen tomorrow. I will email them again I perhaps a little more detailed.
> 
> I had forgotten i put the knife down there for a second. I felt very helpless at first. Its a feeling i did not like, at all. I dont like the fact that i almost cut the guys throat over what was in essance a prank. I know I would have been justified, but still...
> 
> ...


He drove them.

They had to sit realizing what they had done.

Poetic.

He knows where they live . . .


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

D Town said:


> Frantic calls from a "victim" and his witness is enough to get him in hot water. Then we'll have another news story about some crazy Uber driver going postal on some poor innocent pax. Why, don't you remember the pax who was forced to tuck and roll out of a moving Uber when he tried to kidnap her?


I would review policy on knives and weapons before placing a call.

Maybe even run it by an attorney ?


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## Fireguy50 (Nov 23, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> I have a dash cam.


Then skip Uber and call the police!


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

D Town said:


> ....no, I'm not even going to ask why you allowed this person who is obviously drunk, stupid, may be nursing a grudge, and might even have a knife of his own that he didn't pull because he at first believed you had a gun BACK in the car BEHIND you again...


^^^^^^^^^^_*THIS*_^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I would add that your first clue should have been when he moved directly behind you instead of staying on the right hand side of the car. One in the front and one directly behind you is your first indicator of trouble. If you are in a safe and well-lighted area, you end the trip _*IMMEDIATELY*_. If not, you stop the vehicle, open the door and lean forward, then tell the offending passenger that the car does not move until he gets back on the other side of the vehicle. If he complies, you then drive to safe, well-lighted area and end the trip. If he does not comply, you summon the Police, immediately.

I will do this in the cab, even if I can be hauled up for refusal to transport. I know when I am facing potential danger. The Regulatory Agency and its minions do not.


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## Choochie (Jan 4, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> No one saw the knife.
> 
> He can say it was a ballpoint pen.
> 
> Prove otherwise.


Is it on the dashcam?

Edit: Bottom line he did not know you, a perfect stranger, so his actions don't put him in the prank category. He crossed the line, drunk or not and he should be taken to task, let the chips fall where they may. Don't be intimidated that you are taking this to extremes.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Another Uber Driver said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^_*THIS*_^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> I would add that your first clue should have been when he moved directly behind you instead of staying on the right hand side of the car. One in the front and one directly behind you is your first indicator of trouble. If you are in a safe and well-lighted area, you end the trip _*IMMEDIATELY*_. If not, you stop the vehicle, open the door and lean forward, then tell the offending passenger that the car does not move until he gets back on the other side of the vehicle. If he complies, you then drive to safe, well-lighted area and end the trip. If he does not comply, you summon the Police, immediately.
> 
> I will do this in the cab, even if I can be hauled up for refusal to transport. I know when I am facing potential danger. The Regulatory Agency and its minions do not.


Also, he could have pretended to go back to the trunk to get something.
Would have given him an overview of what pax in back seat was doing.

Unusual with a couple for the female to sit up front,and the male to sit behind by himself .( she could have been placed there to steer while you were strangled)

The simple act of going to the trunk ,coming back and making mysterious clothing adjustments around your belt line would often throw off someone with actual intentions.

Always throw a random into routine.
Robbers and thrill killers play the odds.

A random throws the odds.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> I have not received a call, I imagine it will happen tomorrow. I will email them again I perhaps a little more detailed.
> 
> I had forgotten i put the knife down there for a second. I felt very helpless at first. Its a feeling i did not like, at all. I dont like the fact that i almost cut the guys throat over what was in essance a prank. I know I would have been justified, but still...
> 
> ...


I imagine you DON'T like that feeling. That means you're not a monster. I had a drunken/ high as a kite 40 year old stripper toss herself between my shotgun and a car that was speeding towards me and my supervisor. I was in the process of pulling the trigger when she did that. I very, VERY distinctly remember the back of her head appearing before the end of the barrel and my stomach ceasing up as I let go of the trigger. One of the luckiest days of my life since the guy barreling towards us swerved at the last possible second instead of killing us and I didn't blow this morons brains out in the street. I chewed her *** out from one side of that place to the other and tossed her out of there. Plenty of witnesses would have testified that she jumped in front of me while I was defending myself however legally justified or not knowing in my heart of hearts that someone died by my hands who had no intent to take my life would have haunted me. It still makes me angry and sick thinking about it now all these years later. I can't imagine what it'd be like if I'd actually killed her.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> He drove them.
> 
> They had to sit realizing what they had done.
> 
> ...


Knowing where they live is a small perk though not worth the risk of continuing to carry them.



tohunt4me said:


> I would review policy on knives and weapons before placing a call.
> 
> Maybe even run it by an attorney ?


I don't care WHAT Uber's policy is but the idea of contacting an attorney with this is not a bad idea at all.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

This was a bad ride with a few mistakes made. The biggest one was continuing the ride after you were thinking about using a knife, drew a knife, and the passengers saw the knife.

Once that all happened the line between who was the aggressor and who was the victim becomes blurred. Let's say you went to their destination and they broke bad again, and you end up stabbing one of them. Questions will be asked like: did you stab them because you were in fear of your life, or just because you were angry about being choked? If you were in fear of your life why did you continue hauling them? Did you stab him because you were afraid of being choked, or did he choke you because he was afraid of being stabbed?

Think George vs. Trayvon.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Choochie said:


> Is it on the dashcam?
> 
> Edit: Bottom line he did not know you, a perfect stranger, so his actions don't put him in the prank category. He crossed the line, drunk or not and he should be taken to task, let the chips fall where they may. Don't be intimidated that you are taking this to extremes.


It is on the cam, I have not watched it, i do not want to. Not yet anyway. I wish i could remember what he said, I can not. I do know that whatever it was told me he was joking around, I'm not saying it was okay for him to put his hands on, its not. I did, at first let this weigh on how I reacted. Then My mind set changed i dont know how to explain it. I am still glad i did not cut him, if this were to happen again I don't think I'd be able to say this.

Even though hes a prrfect stranger I don't want to hurt or worse kill someone over a poorly thought out joke. Knowing that I was an instant away from taking action isnt sitting well.



tohunt4me said:


> I don't think he will do it again.
> 
> Question is,what would have happened if she wouldn't have screamed gun ?
> 
> ...


Im not sure what she said, or if he saw me reaching for something i just remember the look on her face changed. I'm not worried about any fallout, i did nothing wrong. The "weapon" isnt so much a knife in the traditional sense like a dagger. It is a razor knife, a utility knife from home depot, there is nothing illegal about it. I've had one in my car for years along with a few basic tools. I put it where i can reach it when I started driving. The more comfortable i got driving the less I thought about protection obviously this is a mistake.

Im angry at myself for taking them home, that was a mistake and not smart. To me, it made sense at the time. Now, not so much.

Its a strange feeling, now i mean. The whole experience is not something that I'll soon forget, for sure.



Another Uber Driver said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^_*THIS*_^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> I would add that your first clue should have been when he moved directly behind you instead of staying on the right hand side of the car. One in the front and one directly behind you is your first indicator of trouble. If you are in a safe and well-lighted area, you end the trip _*IMMEDIATELY*_. If not, you stop the vehicle, open the door and lean forward, then tell the offending passenger that the car does not move until he gets back on the other side of the vehicle. If he complies, you then drive to safe, well-lighted area and end the trip. If he does not comply, you summon the Police, immediately.
> 
> I will do this in the cab, even if I can be hauled up for refusal to transport. I know when I am facing potential danger. The Regulatory Agency and its minions do not.


I do not let people sit behind me, never have. I didnt even know he was with her at first. I unlocked the door for her to get in. Unlock one and they all unlock, I thought he was with the other person that was in the parking lot. I wouldn't have started the trip until he moved over, I never really had the chance to ask him to slide over.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

D Town said:


> I imagine you DON'T like that feeling. That means you're not a monster. I had a drunken/ high as a kite 40 year old stripper toss herself between my shotgun and a car that was speeding towards me and my supervisor. I was in the process of pulling the trigger when she did that. I very, VERY distinctly remember the back of her head appearing before the end of the barrel and my stomach ceasing up as I let go of the trigger. One of the luckiest days of my life since the guy barreling towards us swerved at the last possible second instead of killing us and I didn't blow this morons brains out in the street. I chewed her *** out from one side of that place to the other and tossed her out of there. Plenty of witnesses would have testified that she jumped in front of me while I was defending myself however legally justified or not knowing in my heart of hearts that someone died by my hands who had no intent to take my life would have haunted me. It still makes me angry and sick thinking about it now all these years later. I can't imagine what it'd be like if I'd actually killed her.


Yeah, it's not a good feeling, either is wondering if Im going to see my kids again. Neither is one i tbink ill be able to forget anytine soon.


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## Squirming Like A Toad (Apr 7, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> Yeah, it's not a good feeling, either is wondering if Im going to see my kids again. Neither is one i tbink ill be able to forget anytine soon.


I hear you man. You shouldn't forget it. A drunk guy isn't funny when you're sober, and dealing with drunks is a major part of our job. Drunks pay the bills and I'm fine with that. A person with any common sense at all should realize that attacks in a car aren't funny to an Uber driver, any more than jokes about armed robbery are funny to the night clerk at a 7-11. This is real to us. But, these are drunks we are speaking of!

If you don't carry a gun, maybe get yourself some pepper spray. Have the guy at the gun shop or Cabela's recommend a brand, and watch some police videos on YouTube on how to use it. If you dare, get in the shower and dose yourself with it, so you know what to expect if you ever have to deploy it in your car.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> It is on the cam, I have not watched it, i do not want to. Not yet anyway. I wish i could remember what he said, I can not. I do know that whatever it was told me he was joking around, I'm not saying it was okay for him to put his hands on, its not. I did, at first let this weigh on how I reacted. Then My mind set changed i dont know how to explain it. I am still glad i did not cut him, if this were to happen again I don't think I'd be able to say this.


It is VITALLY important that you watch and rewatch that video. You need to analyze it and see what exactly what happened, what went wrong, and how you can change your actions in the future if need be. Since your memory is fuzzy on certain points you NEED to know exactly what was said and why it set you off in the moment. Not only that but there is no guarantee that the cops WON'T come knocking today, tomorrow, or next month about this. KEEP that video safe.



Squirming Like A Toad said:


> If you don't carry a gun, maybe get yourself some pepper spray. Have the guy at the gun shop or Cabela's recommend a brand, and watch some police videos on YouTube on how to use it. If you dare, get in the shower and dose yourself with it, so you know what to expect if you ever have to deploy it in your car.


Don't spray in your car unless you have no choice such as a group attack inside the car. You will ruin your escape vehicle. There are certification classes all over you can take - at least in Texas - where they would be happy to show you how to use it for a nominal fee and they will even spray you. In THAT case you're surrounded by people who will help you instead of stumbling around a bathroom...and polluting the inside of your house with pepper spray...inside of a building that crap travels...trust me I know this first hand.


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## Tim In Cleveland (Jul 28, 2014)

wk1102 said:


> Since I'm typing my phone this is the condensed version.
> 
> 2am I get a ping, its a residence. I recognized the street name but not name or house #. I did a pick up there earlier in the day. 2 couples, dropped them off at a resort, I figured it was them or one couple goung home from there or that they put the pickup- dropoff backwads and they were still at the resort. I texted to confirm, they said address was correct. Showed up then called, tbey were at a bar two blocks away. I still figured it was the same group or at least half of the group, they were cool and tipped so i headed to the bar.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you're okay but I hope you realize how insane it was to driver them anywhere. You should have immediately called the police. You were assaulted.


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## HowdyPartner (Apr 17, 2016)

F**k counting to 3. I'd have just cut him.


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## purple_stars (Apr 28, 2016)

IF you are not comfortable watching the dashcam footage yet, maybe ask a friend and then have them recount it to you. I understand not wanting to, being a trauma survivor, it's the last thing you'd want to do whether the trauma was minor or major. Your emotional state is already overloaded.

I'm glad you are okay. We can all say in a safe environment (typing from our homes, etc.) that we would have done it differently. However, how you would like to react and how you do react are unfortunately two different things when you are in shock. I'd like to think I'd react a certain way, but no matter how much preparation you have, you just don't know until you are in it.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

purple_stars said:


> IF you are not comfortable watching the dashcam footage yet, maybe ask a friend and then have them recount it to you. I understand not wanting to, being a trauma survivor, it's the last thing you'd want to do whether the trauma was minor or major. Your emotional state is already overloaded.


This is true however I'd still be VERY concerned about legalities at this point. His mental state will be far more negatively impacted if the police knock on his door and start asking uncomfortable questions that he can't answer definitively with firm "yes/no" answers instead of "I thought/it felt like/maybe/I'm not sure".


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## purple_stars (Apr 28, 2016)

D Town said:


> This is true however I'd still be VERY concerned about legalities at this point. His mental state will be far more negatively impacted if the police knock on his door and start asking uncomfortable questions that he can't answer definitively with firm "yes/no" answers instead of "I thought/it felt like/maybe/I'm not sure".


I absolutely agree with you. It will definitely hurt more to not have concrete answers. But he does have it saved for this very reason. So maybe having a friend take a glance will help him ease into being able to watch it himself.

I really don't know, it's pretty sad that is even an issue that keeps arising. There needs to be more accountability on fUber regarding rider identities, but as we all know, that will never happen. :/

And why does the media not report these incidences like they do when it comes to riders? The only time we ever get media exposure is when we take it upon ourselves the upload a video and hope is goes viral to get the word out OR, even worse, when the result is a homicide?


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Tim In Cleveland said:


> I'm glad you're okay but I hope you realize how insane it was to driver them anywhere. You should have immediately called the police. You were assaulted.


Yeah. I do. It pretty pissed at myself about it. I knew I was going to catch hell for it to, deservedly so.



HowdyPartner said:


> F**k counting to 3. I'd have just cut him.


I've thought a lot about this, I am glad I did not. It bothers me how close I did come, but as i said before if the same thing were to happen again I won't be able to say the same thing.

I knew from what he said that he was joking, after what seemed like a day but was probably a few seconds it did not matter, I wasnt sure he was joking. I wasnt sure he wasnt either.

I did not want to cut a guys throat because he was stupid. It bothers me that I almost did. Justified or not, man, that's a lot to carry around.



D Town said:


> It is VITALLY important that you watch and rewatch that video. You need to analyze it and see what exactly what happened, what went wrong, and how you can change your actions in the future if need be. Since your memory is fuzzy on certain points you NEED to know exactly what was said and why it set you off in the moment. Not only that but there is no guarantee that the cops WON'T come knocking today, tomorrow, or next month about this. KEEP that video safe.
> 
> Don't spray in your car unless you have no choice such as a group attack inside the car. You will ruin your escape vehicle. There are certification classes all over you can take - at least in Texas - where they would be happy to show you how to use it for a nominal fee and they will even spray you. In THAT case you're surrounded by people who will help you instead of stumbling around a bathroom...and polluting the inside of your house with pepper spray...inside of a building that crap travels...trust me I know this first hand.


I know I need to watch it, and I will.

I give the same advice about pepper spray in a car. Ive been sprayed, and been in 10×10 room that had been sprayed. Im not sure if ot was mace or pepper spray or what but its not fun. I had fluids coming out of every hole in my head.
P


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

purple_stars said:


> I absolutely agree with you. It will definitely hurt more to not have concrete answers. But he does have it saved for this very reason. So maybe having a friend take a glance will help him ease into being able to watch it himself.
> 
> I really don't know, it's pretty sad that is even an issue that keeps arising. There needs to be more accountability on fUber regarding rider identities, but as we all know, that will never happen. :/
> 
> And why does the media not report these incidences like they do when it comes to riders? The only time we ever get media exposure is when we take it upon ourselves the upload a video and hope is goes viral to get the word out OR, even worse, when the result is a homicide?


Because the media is mostly interested in highlighting the dangers TOO the public at large. In other words if they can paint a relatively small group as dangerous then they run with it. Its less sexy to highlight the dangers TO a relatively small group. Instilling fear gets eye balls hence why narratives like Uber drivers, Muslims, TSA screeners, Postal workers, Etc are dangerous/unstable are or have been harped on so aggressively. Over blowing the danger to the largest group of people they can is ratings gold.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> I have not received a call, I imagine it will happen tomorrow. I will email them again I perhaps a little more detailed.
> 
> I had forgotten i put the knife down there for a second. I felt very helpless at first. Its a feeling i did not like, at all. I dont like the fact that i almost cut the guys throat over what was in essance a prank. I know I would have been justified, but still...
> 
> ...


Pretty much why I decided to carry a Taser.

Most people don't die from being Tased. I didn't. 
It hurts like hell, but you usually don't die.

If you make a bad judgement call is is less likely to be a capital crime with a Taser.
If you kill someone, all bets are off once you are in the justice system.


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## UXDriver (May 20, 2015)

Wow

I almost cried when you said you looked at the photo of your wife and kids

In fact, yes, i am crying 

So glad you are ok


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## BenDoover (Apr 28, 2016)

Have been watching this forum for months.
I am happy for you wk1102, you are alive n with your family. Happened to me two weeks ago. Had to sit in the underground garage n stare aimlessly. 
I am not sure of riders ages but they were young and in late teens. My instinct had said cancel but did not because of $$greed.
Riders started with racial comments, wanting to pick a fight. Told them to stop n had already pulled to the side of the road.
Before I could get out, the passenger sitting in the middle took a swipe at me with a knuckle cruncher. Lucky for me I had opened my diver side door n had slid forward to step out. The punch missed me totally n hit one of his own boys who was in the front seat who had moved to hold me back. All hell broke loose after that. I punched three of them n they all ran away as I started attacking them with an iron rod I found. My mind was blank n was in survival mode for me, my family, my parents. Complained to Uber n until today no one from Uber has contacted me. I also did not follow with Uber, don't want to drive any more. My Life is important. To all of you nice people be safe. Will visit the blog from time to time.

You in USA can use dashcams use it. In Canada we cannot use it due to privacy laws n private vehicle n regulations not in force yet.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

BenDoover said:


> Have been watching this forum for months.
> I am happy for you wk1102, you are alive n with your family. Happened to me two weeks ago. Had to sit in the underground garage n stare aimlessly.
> I am not sure of riders ages but they were young and in late teens. My instinct had said cancel but did not because of $$greed.
> Riders started with racial comments, wanting to pick a fight. Told them to stop n had already pulled to the side of the road.
> ...


Did you call the police? And without a dash camera I wouldn't even think of driving. Canada is beyond silly to have a law like that.


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## RamzFanz (Jan 31, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> Since I'm typing my phone this is the condensed version.
> 
> 2am I get a ping, its a residence. I recognized the street name but not name or house #. I did a pick up there earlier in the day. 2 couples, dropped them off at a resort, I figured it was them or one couple goung home from there or that they put the pickup- dropoff backwads and they were still at the resort. I texted to confirm, they said address was correct. Showed up then called, tbey were at a bar two blocks away. I still figured it was the same group or at least half of the group, they were cool and tipped so i headed to the bar.
> 
> ...


BS. You post BS all the time. I recognize your punctuation and grammar, I've pointed it out many times, and you do nothing but post BS. No one drives a person who choked you, it's silly and BS.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

RamzFanz said:


> BS. You post BS all the time. I recognize your punctuation and grammar, I've pointed it out many times, and you do nothing but post BS. No one drives a person who choked you, it's silly and BS.


Okay... thanks. What bs do I post all the time, what are you talking about? You've pointed what out?

I wish i were making it up. Yeah, im a dumb ass, I did drive them after.

He didn't choke me, he put me in a choke hold but did not apply pressure.

Thanks for chiminig in, I appreciate it.


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## Gabriel Quijas (Feb 10, 2016)

D Town said:


> Glad you're not dead. Now:
> 
> 1. You let that drag on too long. Do you have any concept how quickly a person can be incapacitated with a choke hold? 10 - 15 seconds give or take a few seconds. You treat that as if someone has a knife to your neck. You don't ask them to let you go you react. That's it.
> 2. Your first objective is to get that arm from around your neck which means you slash that arm. He will let go. Flailing around behind you with a knife could end with you cutting yourself or getting the knife taken away from you.
> ...


That is why the Samurai Sword is needed.


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## Gabriel Quijas (Feb 10, 2016)

D Town said:


> Frantic calls from a "victim" and his witness is enough to get him in hot water. Then we'll have another news story about some crazy Uber driver going postal on some poor innocent pax. Why, don't you remember the pax who was forced to tuck and roll out of a moving Uber when he tried to kidnap her?


That lady that tuck and rolled out of a moving care with zero scratches or other marks on her body? I love in the interview how she is the only person in all of history that did not get one mark on them while evacuating from a moving vehicle.


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## Gabriel Quijas (Feb 10, 2016)

You have a photo of your family in your car? Who the hell still has photos? Will you ever been able to get back behind the wheel and drive for cash.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Gabriel Quijas said:


> You have a photo of your family in your car? Who the hell still has photos?


I carry photos.


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## Gabriel Quijas (Feb 10, 2016)

D Town said:


> I carry photos.


I was never a carry photo person. I have one picture of my daughter in my wallet. I do have lots of photos on my phone since that is also my camera. I am not calling foul on this story, but it is rather strange in the writing style, it does not really make much sense to me. Every violent encounter I have had, there has never been a moment I did not watch my dash cam footage. And never one millisecond of stumbling about what I should or not do. Fight or Flight takes over when under attack plain and simple.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Gabriel Quijas said:


> I was never a carry photo person. I have one picture of my daughter in my wallet. I do have lots of photos on my phone since that is also my camera. I am not calling foul on this story, but it is rather strange in the writing style, it does not really make much sense to me. Every violent encounter I have had, there has never been a moment I did not watch my dash cam footage. And never one millisecond of stumbling about what I should or not do. Fight or Flight takes over when under attack plain and simple.


Not everyone reacts the same or has the same reactions. Some of the questions he says he asked in his head were probably just flashes of choices in his mind that took a split second or two to make and he DID hesitate in acting a good long while. As for the dash camera footage viewing some people are less willing to re-experience something crappy.


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## Gabriel Quijas (Feb 10, 2016)

D Town said:


> Not everyone reacts the same or has the same reactions. Some of the questions he says he asked in his head were probably just flashes of choices in his mind that took a split second or two to make and he DID hesitate in acting a good long while. As for the dash camera footage viewing some people are less willing to re-experience something crappy.


The kicker is that some like to make up stories and get the cozy gee sorry it happened bro. The big red flag is that someone had called him out on BS posts before. So that with all his strange decisions. Makes me think it is made up. Who would ever continue with the ride after this? No Uber or Lyft driver would continue with the ride after a actual assault. Being chocked from behind is right inline with the Taco Bell guy assault and we all saw the outcome with that. We all react differently but the basic fight or flight always kicks in. You go one way or the other.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

Gabriel Quijas said:


> The kicker is that some like to make up stories and get the cozy gee sorry it happened bro. The big red flag is that someone had called him out on BS posts before. So that with all his strange decisions. Makes me think it is made up. Who would ever continue with the ride after this? No Uber or Lyft driver would continue with the ride after a actual assault. Being chocked from behind is right inline with the Taco Bell guy assault and we all saw the outcome with that. We all react differently but the basic fight or flight always kicks in. You go one way or the other.


True, some people DO make up stories but usually they make up stories where they are some sort of bada$$ or at least puts the story teller in a positive light. This story does not. The fact that he made a GLARING potentially FATAL mistake in continuing the ride makes it seem more likely to me. In real life people are capable of silly, unreasonable, things when in the moment. Not always, of course, but the potential is there. I know this for a fact. To be honest you don't know for certain anything anyone on this forum says is the truth. Even if was BS it could still have value in raising awareness to the very real possibility that a drunk could attack you if you leave your doors unlocked and are caught unawares.


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## 20yearsdriving (Dec 14, 2014)

It's hard to respect a person who drives for pennies
The riders feel entitled to punk the driver at will


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Gabriel Quijas said:


> You have a photo of your family in your car? Who the hell still has photos?


Yeah i have pictures.

If i was going to make up a story, it wouldn't be one that had be be so foolish.

Thanks for the concern, god bless.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Gabriel Quijas said:


> The kicker is that some like to make up stories and get the cozy gee sorry it happened bro. The big red flag is that someone had called him out on BS posts before. So that with all his strange decisions. Makes me think it is made up. Who would ever continue with the ride after this? No Uber or Lyft driver would continue with the ride after a actual assault. Being chocked from behind is right inline with the Taco Bell guy assault and we all saw the outcome with that. We all react differently but the basic fight or flight always kicks in. You go one way or the other.


Show me where someone called me out, not claimed to but actully called me out on something.


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## Gabriel Quijas (Feb 10, 2016)

Post the dashcamera. You did not even contact Uber so I find your story to be a YUUUGE fabrication. You did not call the police after being assaulted. So yeah I do not believe you. I find it funny that you were in a choke hold being attacked and you continue the trip. Zero active drivers would of done what you did or claim to have done. Not calling the Police and contacting Uber is the YUUUUUGE red flag that makes me not believe you at all.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

Gabriel Quijas said:


> Post the dashcamera. You did not even contact Uber so I find your story to be a YUUUGE fabrication. You did not call the police after being assaulted. So yeah I do not believe you. I find it funny that you were in a choke hold being attacked and you continue the trip. Zero active drivers would of done what you did or claim to have done. Not calling the Police and contacting Uber is the YUUUUUGE red flag that makes me not believe you at all.


I dont care what you believe, I did not call the police, I did contact Uber 2x.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

I did watch the footage today. 

From hands on to hands off was 7 seconds. I would have bet it all it was closer to 30. 

Im pretty sure if I relayed this but if not, he was not choking me, it was a loose hold. Im not saying this makes it okay, it does not. 

Look, in my mind, that night I did not feel I was assalted, I felt someone used very poor judgement and was trying to be funny. I wasn't "attacked", I don't feel I was "attacked". I feel someone used very poor judgement and did something very stupid, for a multitude of reasons. Followed by my own possibly even more stupid actions. Because I didnt feel, at tje time, as though I was "attacked" is why I did not call 911 and is why I decided to continue the ride. 

While his hands were on me, I went from being agrivated by unexceptable behavior, to wondering if my life was in danger. I did not want to cause harm to someone if my life was not in danger. I am questioning my actions or lack thereof of more and more. Its not a good feeling.


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## UberPasco (Oct 18, 2015)

So, what was the joke?


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## Gabriel Quijas (Feb 10, 2016)

Whatever guy if you did not feel attacked why were you worrying about spilling blood with your knife and all the other bs you say happened. How you looked at your family photo and thought could this be the end. Sounds like a bunch of back peddling from your original post. 

" I have a razor knife next to my seat between the seat and console. I counted, on 3 i was going to cut. One. I slid my hand onto tje knife and opened it. Two. I turned my head enough tjat i could see him, his head was between the two front seats, i decided to go for his neck instead of his arm. Three. As I started to bring the knife up he let go."


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## SibeRescueBrian (May 10, 2015)

Ok folks. While clarification questions are acceptable, name calling and confrontational posts are not. Let's keep it civil here.


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## TBNexCHaQ8jrSFTc2JsP (Feb 8, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> Since I'm typing my phone this is the condensed version.
> 
> 2am I get a ping, its a residence. I recognized the street name but not name or house #. I did a pick up there earlier in the day. 2 couples, dropped them off at a resort, I figured it was them or one couple goung home from there or that they put the pickup- dropoff backwads and they were still at the resort. I texted to confirm, they said address was correct. Showed up then called, tbey were at a bar two blocks away. I still figured it was the same group or at least half of the group, they were cool and tipped so i headed to the bar.
> 
> ...


TIME FOR AN UBER LAWSUIT! I will join you!


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## bluedogz (Sep 12, 2015)

wk1102 said:


> Im angry at myself for taking them home, that was a mistake and not smart. To me, it made sense at the time. Now, not so much.
> 
> Its a strange feeling, now i mean. The whole experience is not something that I'll soon forget, for sure.





Squirming Like A Toad said:


> If you dare, get in the shower and dose yourself with it, so you know what to expect if you ever have to deploy it in your car.


I know there's more than one former LEO and other public-safety folks around here, but I'll speak up on this one.

I spent five years as a street cop in a major city, and saw almost every one of my colleagues deal with that sort of reaction. It's normal and healthy unless you let it make you do dumb stuff next time. All of the "I-wouldas" here may think they have your health in mind, but that may not be the case.

If your day job offers you an Employee Assistance Program, use it. Such trauma is outside the norm, and getting a professional involved can help you process it in a healthier way. Now, as to the assertion that you made this up: IF that's the case, then professional help is all the more warranted. It's not my place to guess how or why even if this story is accurate or not.

And Gabriel Quijas: Back the **** up, bro. If wk1102 is making it up, no one needs you to point it out; if he isn't, all you're doing is demonizing the victim and making the situation worse. Either way, it's not helping.

As far as the pepper spray thing goes: it's a great idea to test it on yourself, because if you don't,you will be testing it on yourself the first time you use it. If you know what's coming, you will be able to fight through it far better. That said, DON'T spray it in your shower-go outside, somewhere with a hose. If you don't, be prepared to stay out of your house for about a week. And have a friend around, standing up wind-you'll be glad you did.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

Glad you are OK.

If anyone finds themselves having to defend themselves - especially by displaying or using a weapon... PLEASE do not post about it here. You may eventually wind up in court (either as a witness or defendant), and you can guarantee that your written account will be used against you.

There needs to be only ONE version of the events... the one written in the police report.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

sd1303 said:


> Glad you are OK.
> 
> If anyone finds themselves having to defend themselves - especially by displaying or using a weapon... PLEASE do not post about it here. You may eventually wind up in court (either as a witness or defendant), and you can guarantee that your written account will be used against you.
> 
> There needs to be only ONE version of the events... the one written in the police report.


One would hope they wouldn't include items such as names and exact locations, dates, and times not to mention not providing their REAL name here. One would also hope that the way they portrayed it here would be the way they portrayed it to the police. If your account to the police matches what you write here there really isn't a problem.


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## sd1303 (Nov 11, 2015)

D Town said:


> One would hope they wouldn't include items such as names and exact locations, dates, and times not to mention not providing their REAL name here. One would also hope that the way they portrayed it here would be the way they portrayed it to the police. If your account to the police matches what you write here there really isn't a problem.


Slight differences in the accounts will be twisted and made to look like lies. It's not hard to match the post to the driver. There aren't that many self-defense incidents involving Uber drivers.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

sd1303 said:


> Slight differences in the accounts will be twisted and made to look like lies. It's not hard to match the post to the driver. There aren't that many self-defense incidents involving Uber drivers.


The risk is minimal. And Uber drivers getting assaulted is rare? Uber drivers get assaulted more than you'd likely be comfortable knowing about. 99.9% don't end up on the news. The odds of some local attorney finding this forum and then finding the post in question is slim but even if they do as long as you didn't make crap up the "damage" you do won't be any worse than if they cross examine you on the stand. If it goes to trial you're likely going to have to tell your story a number of times - I know this as fact. On top of that if you're doing what you're supposed to be doing as a driver you have dash camera footage to back up your version of events.

Caution is a great thing but you don't have to get crazy with it.


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## Bobby Flay (May 17, 2016)

fantastic story


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## North End Eric (Sep 12, 2015)

I believe his story because he described the calmness and time slowing down sensation that happens in this situation.

To OP - Glad you made it through unscathed. Hope the post-traumatic stress goes away soon.

To all - When driving a cab a woman sitting up front and a male in the back seat is a big red flag that you are being set up. Be careful out there.


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

Beur said:


> If you decide to report it to Uber, be sure to screenshot the trip details first. I had this happen to me last year, when I reported it to Uber they deleted the trip before the cops arrived.
> 
> Now I screenshot every trip at the start and at the conclusion.


I bet Uber and Lyft can monitor you though sound and video with a program that listens for key sounds/words and sifts possible issue for them to view/review at their leisure. Or maybe they're streaming all rides and when you move on it just deletes it from their cloud drive and starts over on the next ride.


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

The USPS service does this with their postal scanners. They listen in all the time to their postal workers. Why can't Uber and Lyft do this through their app?


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

agtg said:


> I bet Uber and Lyft can monitor you though sound and video with a program that listens for key sounds/words and sifts possible issue for them to view/review at their leisure. Or maybe they're streaming all rides and when you move on it just deletes it from their cloud drive and starts over on the next ride.


Why would they care to do this at all?


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

D Town said:


> Why would they care to do this at all?


There are a lot of reasons, one of which could be liability. Let's say a driver has an issue during a particular ride, an incident of some sort with a customer, an accident, whatever. Their legal department could use any kind of data they've drawn to establish a defense for themselves against possible lawsuits. If they have an eye and ear in an actual car related to an incident, that's invaluable.

Plus, both Uber and Lyft reserve the right to change the TOS on a whim, and if you're still partnering with them, you are actively giving them permission to do whatever they want.

I just saw a thread tonight where a driver had his personal Uber account charged $6 for an incident where he had to cancel an unprofitable ride two months previous. These companies are devious, my friend.

The truth is, our nation, and the world, has entered into unchartered, unrestrained, unregulated territory when it comes to business with "app" companies. This is an experiment the guinea pigs should be very wary of.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

agtg said:


> There are a lot of reasons, one of which could be liability. Let's say a driver has an issue during a particular ride, an incident of some sort with a customer, an accident, whatever. Their legal department could use any kind of data they've drawn to establish a defense for themselves against possible lawsuits. If they have an eye and ear in an actual car related to an incident, that's invaluable.


They already have a FAR less expensive way to do this that doesn't involve millions and millions of dollars of servers and IT people. They cover you with a flimsy auto policy that only covers damage over $1000 - which 80-90% of ALL accidents fall below - and the ones they can't just deny they allow the insurance company to worry about. If ANYONE would have ANY sort of incentive to listen it would be Uber's insurance company not Uber. The money doesn't come out of their pocket.



agtg said:


> Plus, both Uber and Lyft reserve the right to change the TOS on a whim, and if you're still partnering with them, you are actively giving them permission to do whatever they want.
> 
> I just saw a thread tonight where a driver had his personal Uber account charged $6 for an incident where he had to cancel an unprofitable ride two months previous. These companies are devious, my friend.


Again, what possible value could they get from streaming through hundreds of thousands of hours of drivers radios playing or our inane interactions with pax? You think they made that massive investment and continue to pump in millions in upkeep every year...just to screw your buddy out of $6 when he canceled on two short rides? They didn't need to listen to his phone for that they just needed customer complaints and his cancel rate. Cheap.

The Orwellian world you're imagining is MASSIVELY expensive with no real profit therefore no private company is likely to do it. The only ones who might are governments who are less motivated by profits than they are controlling their populations to maintain power. Uber doesn't need that. They control us VERY effectively with our pay as is. They've made it VERY clear they have no interest in listening to us in any way, shape, form, or fashion...


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## Karl Marx (May 17, 2016)

"They know everything about you."


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

D Town said:


> They already have a FAR less expensive way to do this that doesn't involve millions and millions of dollars of servers and IT people. They cover you with a flimsy auto policy that only covers damage over $1000 - which 80-90% of ALL accidents fall below - and the ones they can't just deny they allow the insurance company to worry about. If ANYONE would have ANY sort of incentive to listen it would be Uber's insurance company not Uber. The money doesn't come out of their pocket.
> 
> Again, what possible value could they get from streaming through hundreds of thousands of hours of drivers radios playing or our inane interactions with pax? You think they made that massive investment and continue to pump in millions in upkeep every year...just to screw your buddy out of $6 when he canceled on two short rides? They didn't need to listen to his phone for that they just needed customers complaints. and his cancel rate. Cheap.
> 
> The Orwellian world you're imagining is MASSIVELY expensive with no real profit therefore no private company is likely to do it. The only ones who might are governments who are less motivated by profits than they are controlling their populations to maintain power. Uber doesn't need that. They control us VERY effectively with our pay as is. They've made it VERY clear they have no interest in listening to us in any way, shape, form, or fashion...


You can think whatever you like. Uber is a billion dollar company. The US Postal Service is a billion dollar company. It's not far fetched whatsoever. And with AI programs, it's much easier and cheaper to do than ever before. And if you don't think Uber has a huge IT team, you're ridiculous.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

agtg said:


> You can think whatever you like. Uber is a billion dollar company. The US Postal Service is a billion dollar company. It's not far fetched whatsoever. And with AI programs, it's much easier and cheaper to do than ever before. And if you don't think Uber has a huge IT team, you're ridiculous.


If you're honestly that paranoid then why give them the chance? Stop driving for them and delete the app. Or since you're going THAT Orwellian stop driving and destroy your phone since you can't be sure its REALLY deleted. I'm not even going to get into the many ways you COULD be being tracked through the device you're accessing this site on.


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

D Town said:


> If you're honestly that paranoid then why give them the chance? Stop driving for them and delete the app. Or since you're going THAT Orwellian stop driving and destroy your phone since you can't be sure its REALLY deleted. I'm not even going to get into the many ways you COULD be being tracked through the device you're accessing this site on.


What's your problem? This is a totally valid discussion. They could design the app to do all kinds of stuff drivers wouldn't even know about. The TOS states explicitly that they can change the TOS on a whim, and that would include what the app is capable of doing.

Drivers are basically accepting an open agreement allowing Uber and Lyft to do whatever they please, whenever they please, for whatever purpose which pleases them.

Maybe you should reread 1984 (or watch the movie) and see how many things in our modern society mirror that demented culture.


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## HERR_UBERMENSCH (Jun 3, 2016)

Jufkii said:


> This is your condensed version ?


Maybe the full version had pictures or cartoons?


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

agtg said:


> What's your problem? This is a totally valid discussion. They could design the app to do all kinds of stuff drivers wouldn't even know about. The TOS states explicitly that they can change the TOS on a whim, and that would include what the app is capable of doing.
> 
> Drivers are basically accepting an open agreement allowing Uber and Lyft to do whatever they please, whenever they please, for whatever purpose which pleases them.
> 
> Maybe you should reread 1984 (or watch the movie) and see how many things in our modern society mirror that demented culture.


Read it. Know what the agreement says. MOST agreements say something similar. What you fail to grasp, however, is that these corporations only make large moves when they are:

1. When it makes them more money.

2. Forced to by regulation, court order, or to survive as a business.

Where does monitoring every drivers conversations fall into either of these? Unless and until it does these are not really a concern. Is it technologically possible? Sure. Its also technologically possible to simply track everyone by their cellphone and even install malware to allow some agency or group to turn on your microphone and video remotely. I'm more worried about hackers doing this to steal data or just screw with me than Uber.

If your argument is we need to reexamine technology and demand more control over our info and take back our privacy then cool. I'm with you there. That being said Uber is not one of the groups I'm really worried about listening in on my conversations.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-can-be-tracked-anywhere-can-i-make-it-stop/


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## Gabriel Quijas (Feb 10, 2016)

If you feel this way about Uber than you need to stop driving for Uber, you need to delete the App, and never use Uber ever again. Never forget that the Kalamazoo Uber Partner and Murderer thought Uber controlled things too. If you are truly worried and really think Uber does all you think it does time to walk away for life.


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

Gabriel Quijas said:


> If you feel this way about Uber than you need to stop driving for Uber, you need to delete the App, and never use Uber ever again. Never forget that the Kalamazoo Uber Partner and Murderer thought Uber controlled things too. If you are truly worried and really think Uber does all you think it does time to walk away for life.


How about this: I will use whatever app I want knowing they can do whatever they want and not care at all because I'm a lawful person.

For those who are really disturbed by such a revelation as the potential to be monitored by your bosses, perhaps you should stop doing whatever it is that would look so bad when it's recorded.


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## Gabriel Quijas (Feb 10, 2016)

agtg said:


> How about this: I will use whatever app I want knowing they can do whatever they want and not care at all because I'm a lawful person.
> 
> For those who are really disturbed by such a revelation as the potential to be monitored by your bosses, perhaps you should stop doing whatever it is that would look so bad when it's recorded.


You have no idea how much infrastructure it would take server wise to monitor in real time hundreds of thousands of drivers across the globe that Uber has. So grab your tinfoil hat and keep up the conspiracy theories. If they did monitor us in real time, the Kalamazoo Uber Partner would of been caught when he started side swiping cars, let alone shooting people from his car, so that incident alone proves your theory wrong, since that went on for several hours while he was logged into Uber and taking rides.


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

Gabriel Quijas said:


> You have no idea how much infrastructure it would take server wise to monitor in real time hundreds of thousands of drivers across the globe that Uber has. So grab your tinfoil hat and keep up the conspiracy theories. If they did monitor us in real time, the Kalamazoo Uber Partner would of been caught when he started side swiping cars, let alone shooting people from his car, so that incident alone proves your theory wrong, since that went on for several hours while he was logged into Uber and taking rides.


You obviously don't understand AI technology. If you have a facebook account, download the app for it. Then, spend the next few days talking about various things you would like to do or things you might want to buy. Then watch your app respond to what you're talking about. Here is a pleasant little article to soothe any frightful thoughts against such a benevolent technology. Check a quote from the article:

"Here's how it works: if you choose to turn the feature on, when you write a status update, the app converts any sound into an audio fingerprint on your phone. This fingerprint is sent to our servers to try and match it against our database of audio and TV fingerprints."

What are "fingerprints?" Keywords the AI program catches you say. So, thinking of taking a vacation to Myrtle Beach sometime soon? Don't be surprised when Facebook sends advertisements to your page the next time you log in because it heard you say "vacation" and "Myrtle Beach."

http://marketingland.com/no-what-facebook-hears-on-your-phone-isnt-triggering-ads-146057

But it's all tinfoil, right?


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## bluedogz (Sep 12, 2015)

Not to be pedantic, but the cited article specifically explains that Facebook is NOT doing what you describe, simply that they are CAPABLE of it, and even then, not in real time. Gabriel Quijas never said that such activity was impossible, just impractical.

Maybe adding another layer of tinfoil would help.


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

Ok, suit yourself. But, before I bow out, allow me to share this:

As I was driving around the other night I dropped a guy off at a gym that I used to belong to. It had recently become a Gold's gym, so as I'm driving away I tell myself out loud that perhaps a membership wouldn't be bad as I drive a shift out on the road. Stop during the slow times and get a workout in. 

What do I find in my email this morning? An offer from the new Golds gym coming to the address that I used for the original membership at the former gym at that location. 

How does this happen? Could have been my Google web-browser app, or my gmail app, or perhaps some third party app, of which there are a bunch on my smartphone, working in coordination to market junk to me as it picks up "fingerprints" throughout my day.

So I'm not saying it was the Uber or Lyft app, I'm just saying it's not hard and that it clearly happens already with other big name apps.


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## D Town (Apr 8, 2015)

agtg said:


> Ok, suit yourself. But, before I bow out, allow me to share this:
> 
> As I was driving around the other night I dropped a guy off at a gym that I used to belong to. It had recently become a Gold's gym, so as I'm driving away I tell myself out loud that perhaps a membership wouldn't be bad as I drive a shift out on the road. Stop during the slow times and get a workout in.
> 
> ...


What this has to do with Uber/Lyft recording audio of all drivers is beyond me. You think it new and strange that a nation wide business who you gave all your personal info to at some point decided to shoot an email out to its former members after checking to see if they've had a change of address recently? They've been doing that for decades now (though it was regular mail before the internet instead of an email)...And that takes little more resources than the desktop I'm writing this on...Monitoring all drivers the way you're talking about would take the computing power of a small government even with "A.I.". Uber has no profit motive to do that. I'd be more worried about someone like Amazon trying that if I were you.

*How The Post Office Sells Your Address Update To Anyone Who Pays (And The Little-Known Loophole To Opt Out)*
http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamtan...ittle-known-loophole-to-opt-out/#630593ce5050


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## Rae (Feb 27, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> Okay... thanks. What bs do I post all the time, what are you talking about? You've pointed what out?
> 
> I wish i were making it up. Yeah, im a dumb ass, I did drive them after.
> 
> ...


I know this is an older thread but I scrolled into it and got very irked. I may have a clue why someone would keep driving in this situation. I was recently assaulted by a passenger and I know how it feels.

I accepted a ping by 3ppl, 1 guy sat in front (I'm a female Uber, Tampa Bay area). First, the guy got cranky bc I wouldn't let him bring an open container and it went downhill from there. He was touching me (my arm),talking nonstop, making sexual comments(20yr age diff) and the more I said 'please stop' whatever, the more agitated he got.

I drive a manual trans so by the time we hit the highway he was grabbing my bicep, grabbing the vehicle controls, shoving drugs in my face, eating 'edibles' and jumping all over the car. The other pax(one a girl) were definitely intimidated and the more we tried to calm him down the more angry and nasty he got. I thought about putting him out BUT..................

I knew he wouldn't get out voluntarily. We were in somewhat isolated areas. I didn't have a gun. I didn't know if he did. He did have a sharp knife or something bc when he finally did get out (at a very public location), he sliced my car.

I knew fairly quickly into the ride that I was in trouble, possibly big trouble. This guy was jacked up. Getting someone that angry, crazy and agitated out of your car or even parking and running is not that easy.

So as this poster described, I was traumatized, my adreneline was going but I had my agitated pax calmed down and my read on the situation was that it was best to take him to point B as calmly as possible - and in my case say "yes" to everything then get them the hell out of the car.

Afterwards of course you're not sure what to do because at the end of the ride, the pax gets out like nothing happened and pretends it was a game. Well, not so much in my situation. The pax was screaming at me when he got out of the car and threatening me - hoped I'd hit a pole & die, etc. I didn't even think to check my car for damage and I didn't realize he'd cut the car till the next day. I'm still chilled thinking how easily it could have been my neck.

I reported it to Uber Safety Line right away but I didn't file a police report although I should have in retrospect. There's usually an officer at the venue I dropped them at but there was already an emergency there. I was pretty shellshocked. In the meantime, I've put together an emergency phone list for a neighbor and with family phone numbers (all out of state) since I live alone. Including car make, model, vin, Uber days & times, locations, etc. so if one of my pax does something with me, someone will look for my body ( or notify my family) in a timely manner. It not a joke. And this guy the other weekend scared me to death. I can't believe people bashed you, they had no right at all. You did the right thing, you came home to your family.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

I carry a real C2 Taser (not a silly stun gun) and pepper gel. Don't get pepper spray for use in a car. 
So far I have shown 2 drunks the laser on the C2 Taser, and it did motivate them right out of the car at light speed. People have seen a real Taser used on Cops the TV show. No one wants to be incapacitated for 30 seconds while I stomp their hands and knees.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

maui said:


> Couple of things.
> 
> 1) Congrats for being alive. This story normally ends with you dead, or with you in a dark alley with no wallet, phone or car.
> 
> ...


This stupidity perfectly matches the self-portrait in your avatar.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> I dont know that i deserve the outcome #1 but yeah... it was pretty stupid letting them stay in my car. I know this. While I know he meant no harm, what if he thought it would be funny to do it again ... what if... I know, I know I know. I did what i did, I can't change that.


You DON'T know he meant no harm. You _want to believe_ he meant no harm.

Everything about the situation indicates he meant harm. Who does that? Seriously, who does stuff like that if they are *not* trying to hurt someone?

You did *exactly* what you should have done -- not one iota more; not one iota less.

You prepared to defend your life, and when it wasn't absolutely *necessary* you rightfully held back. You handled that part of it perfectly.



> if i were to redo it id have called 911.


Yep, woulda/coulda/shoulda. But hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it?


> Honestly i dont know what i am or how I'm feeling.


You're the same person you were yesterday...a good guy, and my friend.



> Ive bedn an emotional wreck today. Im a grown ass man and I've spent half the day with tears in my eyes and the other half fighting them off. Must be because I barely slept, i cant be this much of a p****.


That's a normal reaction. *NORMAL*. Been there; done that -- and everyone reacts differently.

What you're feeling is normal, and it's just part of the process. You are fine, and you will be fine.



> I'm glad i didnt cut him but i was going to. He took his hands off me and I did not have to, there is no doubt in my mind that I would have followed through.


You did the right thing. You were prepared to take whatever action was *necessary* to prevent him from hurting you or worse. Turns out cutting him wasn't *necessary*. If you'd cut him, you would have been fully justified.



> I have not wached the dashcam footage, I dont want to but at some point i guess i should.


No, you shouldn't. Let it go. Move on. Take a couple of days off and collect yourself -- you're fine.


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## wk1102 (Dec 25, 2015)

This is an old thread... id rather not resurrect it.

I would not handle the situation the same today, that said. let this one go please.


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## JimKE (Oct 28, 2016)

bluedogz said:


> I know there's more than one former LEO and other public-safety folks around here, but I'll speak up on this one.
> 
> I spent five years as a street cop in a major city, and saw almost every one of my colleagues deal with that sort of reaction. It's normal and healthy unless you let it make you do dumb stuff next time. All of the "I-wouldas" here may think they have your health in mind, but that may not be the case.
> 
> If your day job offers you an Employee Assistance Program, use it. Such trauma is outside the norm, and getting a professional involved can help you process it in a healthier way.


Thanks! It's always great to have someone with actual real-world experience inject a bit of sanity into discussions like this. Doesn't happen often enough, because thankfully not many of us have been there.


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## UGJaelRose (Sep 20, 2016)

wk1102 said:


> Since I'm typing my phone this is the condensed version.
> 
> 2am I get a ping, its a residence. I recognized the street name but not name or house #. I did a pick up there earlier in the day. 2 couples, dropped them off at a resort, I figured it was them or one couple goung home from there or that they put the pickup- dropoff backwads and they were still at the resort. I texted to confirm, they said address was correct. Showed up then called, tbey were at a bar two blocks away. I still figured it was the same group or at least half of the group, they were cool and tipped so i headed to the bar.
> 
> ...


Dont be bothered brother. Im sorry you had such a ****ed up night on this day. The dude had no right to touch you in any way shape or form. That's something you could have reported to uber. Thats something you could have reported to law enforcement.


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## Rae (Feb 27, 2016)

RockinEZ said:


> I carry a real C2 Taser (not a silly stun gun) and pepper gel. Don't get pepper spray for use in a car.
> So far I have shown 2 drunks the laser on the C2 Taser, and it did motivate them right out of the car at light speed. People have seen a real Taser used on Cops the TV show. No one wants to be incapacitated for 30 seconds while I stomp their hands and knees.
> View attachment 83207


LOL I just asked about the laws on stun guns/tasers at my local gun shop. For a taser like yours I'd need to update my PA carry permit to FL which isn't a huge deal but it seems a bit over the top.

I did find another solution. A small 'hidden' camera(pea sized) on the dash, not hooked up just taped to look like it COULD be hooked up. I'm hoping that most pax won't notice it but that I can draw attention to it if anyone is unruly. If they notice it I'm going to start by saying its off unless I have a problem(pretty much the truth). We'll see how it works.

The pepper spray and a stun gun would be a backup, it won't kill anyone (including me), just buy me some time. Those options also wouldn't get me in trouble if I had to use them as a last resort and that last resort would be to use them as I was running out of the car.


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## Rae (Feb 27, 2016)

I'm glad you posted it, thank you. I felt better after having a similar experience and I've gotten some great info & advice. 

I've struggled with not wanting to go back out driving and trying to find ways to be comfortable with the 90% of my nice normal pax while weeding out the crazies. I keep wondering what I could have done differently but I don't think I could have unless it was on the back end. I think there's a level of shellshock that sets in though so reading this made me feel better, its not just me. And it's not because I'm a woman because I'm a tough girl, I can take care of myself and I hate feeling like this. 

I think I've come up with some non violent options to handle the lunatic fringe. I"m used to lunatic fringe, just not to being locked in my own car with them where I'm the driver and can't jump out. 

It also ticked me off as I read down the thread. We should support each other.


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## RockinEZ (Apr 29, 2015)

Rae said:


> LOL I just asked about the laws on stun guns/tasers at my local gun shop. For a taser like yours I'd need to update my PA carry permit to FL which isn't a huge deal but it seems a bit over the top.
> 
> I did find another solution. A small 'hidden' camera(pea sized) on the dash, not hooked up just taped to look like it COULD be hooked up. I'm hoping that most pax won't notice it but that I can draw attention to it if anyone is unruly. If they notice it I'm going to start by saying its off unless I have a problem(pretty much the truth). We'll see how it works.
> 
> The pepper spray and a stun gun would be a backup, it won't kill anyone (including me), just buy me some time. Those options also wouldn't get me in trouble if I had to use them as a last resort and that last resort would be to use them as I was running out of the car.


Damn, you live in one of the Taser restricted states. There are just a few, you got lucky. I have to admit a Taser does put the fear of pain in an asshat PAX in a nanosecond. Over the years I have ended up with three real C2 civilian Tasers. It is good to watch out for deals. I will not carry a gun, because I can think of 2 PAX that would not be alive right now. The one that put me in a headlock on the freeway at 65mph, and the one that tried to kick out my windshield, and was thinking of kicking me until he saw that laser... Things got real calm, and he beat feet like Carl Lewis. A Taser is good enough for me.


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