# Uber discouraging drivers from unionizing



## chitownXdriver (Dec 24, 2014)

The Seattle tussle is the latest challenge to Uber's independent contractor model, which pushes expenses such as fuel, vehicle maintenance and insurance on to the drivers, in exchange for the promise of a steady stream of riders and a flexible work schedule. The model is a chief reason for Uber's $68 billion valuation, though the company has faced a near-constant stream of lawsuits challenging the classification as nonemployees.

A Seattle ordinance passed in 2015 took effect in January giving drivers the right to vote to organize, meaning some 10,000 Uber contractors could win the right to negotiate fares and benefits. The dispute has taken on added urgency in recent days as the Teamsters seek access to driver contact information from Uber and rival Lyft Inc. to help with organizing efforts, even as lawsuits challenging the ordinance roll in, including from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and a group of 11 drivers backed by the National Right to Work Committee.

Read more...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...ation-effort-in-seattle/ar-AAo9zhG?li=BBnbfcN


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

chitownXdriver said:


> http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...ation-effort-in-seattle/ar-AAo9zhG?li=BBnbfcN


Uber had years to treat drivers right.
Travis was recorded telling one of his " dates" in that incident with the lux. Driver (still viewable here !) That " UBER WAS SUPPOSED TO GET HARDER EVERY YEAR FOR DRIVERS."
UBERS GOAL IS TO REPLACE ALL DRIVERS WITH MACHINES !
THAT IS DOCCUMENTED AND WELL KNOWN.

DRIVERS NEED REPRESENTATION !

IT IS DOCCUMENTED UBER WILL NOT TREAT US RIGHT !


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

There's a million reasons why joining a union is a good thing and not a single reason why it isn't. Yes you gotta pay dues but that's a small price to pay to have a contract with rights, benefits, good pay, the ability to not have Uber slash your rates, etc etc. This isn't rocket science. Only morons brainwashed into thinking unions are bad by Republicans and those paid by Uber to rail against unions would not want a union. 

The funny part is Uber, yet again, threatening drivers with the ridiculous "you might lose your flexibility" garbage they use all the time. #UberSpin


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

uberdriverfornow said:


> There's a million reasons why joining a union is a good thing and not a single reason why it isn't. Yes you gotta pay dues but that's a small price to pay to have a contract with rights, benefits, good pay, the ability to not have Uber slash your rates, etc etc. This isn't rocket science. Only morons brainwashed into thinking unions are bad by Republicans and those paid by Uber to rail against unions would not want a union.
> 
> The funny part is Uber, yet again, threatening drivers with the ridiculous "you might lose your flexibility" garbage they use all the time. #UberSpin


Might lose our flexibility to not have to drive 20 hours to pay bills due to constant rate hikes .
Might Lose our flexibility to be deactivated due to rider false accusation without any way to confront our false accusers.
Might lose our flexibility to be put on time outs for not accepting rixes 20 minutes away.
Might lose our flexibility to be deactivated over canceling rides on intoxicated people who act badly.


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## u-Boat (Jan 4, 2016)

If a driver's union accomplishes the goal of allowing drivers to set their own rates without dictating hours of operation then I'm all for it. Otherwise, no thanks. I'm already donating money to a crooked organization. Why add another one to the list?


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

u-Boat said:


> If a driver's union accomplishes the goal of allowing drivers to set their own rates without dictating hours of operation then I'm all for it. Otherwise, no thanks. I'm already donating money to a crooked organization. Why add another one to the list?


Uber is breathing heavy over the thought of replacing every driver in the country with Robots.


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## Southdiver (Jan 10, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> There's a million reasons why joining a union is a good thing and not a single reason why it isn't. Yes you gotta pay dues but that's a small price to pay to have a contract with rights, benefits, good pay, the ability to not have Uber slash your rates, etc etc. This isn't rocket science. Only morons brainwashed into thinking unions are bad by Republicans and those paid by Uber to rail against unions would not want a union.
> 
> The funny part is Uber, yet again, threatening drivers with the ridiculous "you might lose your flexibility" garbage they use all the time. #UberSpin


So, you want to take your self employment and replace it with a union?
That's a pretty good way to have it simply shut down.
Just ask the auto industry who moved most of production to Mexico.


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## Fritz Duval (Feb 4, 2017)

Southdiver said:


> So, you want to take your self employment and replace it with a union?
> That's a pretty good way to have it simply shut down.
> Just ask the auto industry who moved most of production to Mexico.
> 
> WHAT, YEAH MOVE DRIVERS 2 MEXICO. GET REAL DUDE!


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## Southdiver (Jan 10, 2017)

OK. Obviously the drivers wont move to Mexico. That was just a simple example of how unions are actually BAD for the local economy.
In the case of Uber, one of two things will happen:
1: Uber will simply pull out of that local market so now you have a bunch of out of work union Uber drivers.
2: Uber will push for driverless cars in that market so now you will have a bunch of out of work union Uber drivers.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Southdiver said:


> So, you want to take your self employment and replace it with a union?
> That's a pretty good way to have it simply shut down.
> Just ask the auto industry who moved most of production to Mexico.


Make America Great again . . . it's moving back.
Rather have cars & tires built in Mexico over Communist China any day though !



Southdiver said:


> So, you want to take your self employment and replace it with a union?
> That's a pretty good way to have it simply shut down.
> Just ask the auto industry who moved most of production to Mexico.


The Japanese and Korean car manufacturers that moved here,insist employees have a union.
Wonder why they are so successful ?


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## Southdiver (Jan 10, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Make America Great again . . . it's moving back.
> Rather have cars & tires built in Mexico over Communist China any day though !


Sorry man but, "Make America Great again" is a cool slogan and all but, we are a free market society (unless you are trying to buy prescription drugs) and the consumer demand for cheap toasters outweighs the longer term vision of rebuilding the American work force.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Southdiver said:


> So, you want to take your self employment and replace it with a union?
> That's a pretty good way to have it simply shut down.
> Just ask the auto industry who moved most of production to Mexico.


WE need UNION LOBBYING POWER !
EVERY DRIVING JOB IN THE COUNTRY IS IN DANGER OF BEING REPLACED BY ROBOTS !



Southdiver said:


> Sorry man but, "Make America Great again" is a cool slogan and all but, we are a free market society (unless you are trying to buy prescription drugs) and the consumer demand for cheap toasters outweighs the longer term vision of rebuilding the American work force.


Uber dream WORK FORCE IS ROBO CARS !
BETTER GET THAT UNION WHILE YOU HAVE A CHANCE !

NOWS THE TIME !
THE TIME IS NOW !

WONT BE A TOMMORROW WITHOUT LOBBYING POWER FOR THE DRIVERS !


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## Southdiver (Jan 10, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Make America Great again . . . it's moving back.
> Rather have cars & tires built in Mexico over Communist China any day though !
> 
> The Japanese and Korean car manufacturers that moved here,insist employees have a union.
> Wonder why they are so successful ?


You will need to provide proof of that.
One of the reason that Asian and European automakers did NOT set up shop in the motor city is not because of the better weather down south.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Companies like Uber and ubers treatment of drivers is the reason unions were created.


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## Southdiver (Jan 10, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Companies like Uber and ubers treatment of drivers is the reason unions were created.


You are right... except that you are wrong.
Unions were created to combat child labor, fight for a minimum wage, and support fair working hours.
None of that applies to an independent contractor. Well, maybe child labor.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Southdiver said:


> You are right... except that you are wrong.
> Unions were created to combat child labor, fight for a minimum wage, and support fair working hours.
> None of that applies to an independent contractor. Well, maybe child labor.


Uber claims we are independent when convenient to skirt laws.
Time outs,deactivations for cancellation,deactivation on false accusations without representation or being able to face accusing passengers are not signs of any sort of Independence.
Neither is rate manipulation which only affects drivers.


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## jonhjax (Jun 24, 2016)

I have worked in both union and right to work states. I my experience workers get higher pay and better, sometimes much better benefits than workers in right to work states. A non union business I worked at gave me medical and dental insurance for about $12 a week and paid us time and a half for working Saturday or Sunday and if a holiday was on a weekend we got double time and a half. They did this so we didn't go union. I was told this by national, not local management.


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## blackjackross (Dec 16, 2016)

Southdiver said:


> OK. Obviously the drivers wont move to Mexico. That was just a simple example of how unions are actually BAD for the local economy.
> In the case of Uber, one of two things will happen:
> 1: Uber will simply pull out of that local market so now you have a bunch of out of work union Uber drivers.
> 2: Uber will push for driverless cars in that market so now you will have a bunch of out of work union Uber drivers.


Not advocating for a union, however, your argument has some weaknesses. I drive in the Chicago market. Do you really think the Uber will pull out of a market that exceeds 3.5 million rides a month? I don't think they can afford to give up their 3rd largest market. Chicago City Council is on record as not willing to amend existing ordinances to allow driverless cars. I don't see that happening in the next 7-10 years in this market.


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## Southdiver (Jan 10, 2017)

blackjackross said:


> Not advocating for a union, however, your argument has some weaknesses. I drive in the Chicago market. Do you really think the Uber will pull out of a market that exceeds 3.5 million rides a month? I don't think they can afford to give up their 3rd largest market. Chicago City Council is on record as not willing to amend existing ordinances to allow driverless cars. I don't see that happening in the next 7-10 years in this market.


I can see where you are coming from.
So, what happens when Uber simply decides to deactivate all "union member" accounts and just hire new non union drivers? Will it be like the old days of threats and fights? For every one driver who gets deactivated, there are two more willing to drive.


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## roadman (Nov 14, 2016)

Southdiver said:


> So, you want to take your self employment and replace it with a union?
> That's a pretty good way to have it simply shut down.
> Just ask the auto industry who moved most of production to Mexico.


shut Uber the scammers down then. Right now the Uber scammers are taking 30%-40% of every fare this is past the point of ridiculous.


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## blackjackross (Dec 16, 2016)

Southdiver said:


> I can see where you are coming from.
> So, what happens when Uber simply decides to deactivate all "union member" accounts and just hire new non union drivers? Will it be like the old days of threats and fights? For every one driver who gets deactivated, there are two more willing to drive.


That's a legitimate question. I don't know the legality of the action if that's what Uber intends to do that. That's something a lawyer with experience in labor law would have to chime in on.


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## UberGeo (Jan 16, 2017)

Southdiver said:


> You are right... except that you are wrong.
> Unions were created to combat child labor, fight for a minimum wage, and support fair working hours.
> None of that applies to an independent contractor. Well, maybe child labor.


Just not fare.... .87 in NJ, 1.1 in PA. And going down down down.



blackjackross said:


> Not advocating for a union, however, your argument has some weaknesses. I drive in the Chicago market. Do you really think the Uber will pull out of a market that exceeds 3.5 million rides a month? I don't think they can afford to give up their 3rd largest market. Chicago City Council is on record as not willing to amend existing ordinances to allow driverless cars. I don't see that happening in the next 7-10 years in this market.


Not only that... Will they pull out of every market... On every state,?


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Well I agree having a union has some good points, there is at least one major downside. Many of the drivers are part time working one or two days. Let's face it, most of use don't net the $20/hour most union workers do. That being said, for those that drive low hours would the union dues make driving a losing proposition for the people?


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

If we can all get on the same page we can pull off unionizeing. We would have to have groups of leaders to help us lobby in the courts. 

The biggest union out there are the teamsters.

What that did was help expand out all divisions in trucking. Make hours flexable,higher pay rate and fully covered inssurance.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

l


Southdiver said:


> So, you want to take your self employment and replace it with a union?
> That's a pretty good way to have it simply shut down.
> Just ask the auto industry who moved most of production to Mexico.


lol How exactly is Uber going to ship driver's job to Mexico ?

No union job in recorded hstory


tohunt4me said:


> Might lose our flexibility to not have to drive 20 hours to pay bills due to constant rate hikes .
> Might Lose our flexibility to be deactivated due to rider false accusation without any way to confront our false accusers.
> Might lose our flexibility to be put on time outs for not accepting rixes 20 minutes away.
> Might lose our flexibility to be deactivated over canceling rides on intoxicated people who act badly.


Uber is trying to scare you into not joining a union by blackmailing you into thinking they will take away the right to turn on any time you want, constant rate hikes will halt due to the union contract.

A union contract will allow you due process before any deactivation.

A union contract will allow us to dictate, in the app, how far we want to go for a pickup and how far we'll for a destination.

A union contract, combined with our already obtained independent contractor status, will allow us to choose, without penalty, who we want to pick up.



mikes424 said:


> Well I agree having a union has some good points, there is at least one major downside. Many of the drivers are part time working one or two days. Let's face it, most of use don't net the $20/hour most union workers do. That being said, for those that drive low hours would the union dues make driving a losing proposition for the people?


There is no reason Uber will have to take away our ability to turn the app on and off when we want. They are only saying that to blackmail you into going against a union and going against employee status.

Don't fall for the Uber blackmail.



blackjackross said:


> That's a legitimate question. I don't know the legality of the action if that's what Uber intends to do that. That's something a lawyer with experience in labor law would have to chime in on.


Part of your right to unionize is that they can't fire you for unionizing.


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## blackjackross (Dec 16, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> l
> 
> lol How exactly is Uber going to ship driver's job to Mexico ?
> 
> ...


Since you are technically not an employee but an independent contractor they are not really firing you. I'm not sure that denying you access to the Uber app under their so called terms of service agreement constitutes firing. Any labor lawyers trolling this forum?


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber is breathing heavy over the thought of replacing every driver in the country with Robots.


If the law suddenly requires Uber drivers to be employees or somehow there is a driver union, it will certainly hasten the onset of robo-drivers.


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> If the law suddenly requires Uber drivers to be employees or somehow there is a driver union, it will certainly hasten the onset of robo-drivers.


Some cities already have laws against self driveing like chicago. I expect more stuff like that to happen. Tech companies need to slow their role as its only helping out the rich


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## blackjackross (Dec 16, 2016)

Trafficat said:


> If the law suddenly requires Uber drivers to be employees or somehow there is a driver union, it will certainly hasten the onset of robo-drivers.


I agree. However, Chicago City Aldermen will fight tooth and nail to prevent driverless cars in Chicago. City Council is not known for it's progressive stance on adapting to technological advances that upset the status quo. If you think the cab industry put up a fight when Uber/Lyft set up shop you ain't seen nothin' yet. Uber/Lyft and others better get ready to pony up some BIG dollars to line the pockets of Chicago's vested interests before any changes take place. It's inevitable that change will occur------7-10 years down the road.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

I will not sign up for any union that pays management more than the average drivers pay.


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber claims we are independent when convenient to skirt laws.
> Time outs,deactivations for cancellation,deactivation on false accusations without representation or being able to face accusing passengers are not signs of any sort of Independence.
> Neither is rate manipulation which only affects drivers.


The Union thing is interesting. There's an obvious difference between part-timers like me and those trying to do this full time (you guys have my sympathy!!). I don't want to be an employee. I want to be treated like an actual IC, which means setting my own fares in a competitive manner against my competition (other drivers), not being put on time-out for rejecting non-profitable rides (20+ minutes away to a pickup), ability to receive tips in a consumer-friendly manner (ie in-app), and all the Uber propaganda to stop. If a Union is going to push for employee status than no thanks.

If they're going to push for true IC (doubtful, but let's do a hypothetical) - I'd want to know more about what a union is going to do for me. What's it going to cost me who drives 5-10 hours per week vs someone who drives 40+? What are they likely going to ask me to give up in a negotiation with Travis... am I going to have to commit to hours of specific workdays? Am I going to be banned from driving for Lyft? What am I likely to get in return... ability to set my fare or the right to not have fares lowered arbitrarily by Travis when he wants to defeat _his _competitors?

I think there's way too many unknowns here for me to weigh in either way. I'm glad I don't live in Seattle....


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber claims we are independent when convenient to skirt laws.
> Time outs,deactivations for cancellation,deactivation on false accusations without representation or being able to face accusing passengers are not signs of any sort of Independence.
> Neither is rate manipulation which only affects drivers.


Not to mention phantom surge zones designed to draw you to a particular area before they mysteriously disappear.....



Southdiver said:


> I can see where you are coming from.
> So, what happens when Uber simply decides to deactivate all "union member" accounts and just hire new non union drivers? Will it be like the old days of threats and fights? For every one driver who gets deactivated, there are two more willing to drive.


Because of the threats and fights of the old days, most states' labor laws require a good faith negotiation by the company before just firing everyone and going non-union. In Reno, Nevada, the Reno Hilton eliminated their security department and hired third party security after they unionized. They lost a lawsuit, were required to pay a large settlement to the guards, and Ferenc Szony, the pres of the property, was thrown out on his arse by Hilton.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

Dback2004 said:


> The Union thing is interesting. There's an obvious difference between part-timers like me and those trying to do this full time (you guys have my sympathy!!). I don't want to be an employee. I want to be treated like an actual IC, which means setting my own fares in a competitive manner against my competition (other drivers), not being put on time-out for rejecting non-profitable rides (20+ minutes away to a pickup), ability to receive tips in a consumer-friendly manner (ie in-app), and all the Uber propaganda to stop. If a Union is going to push for employee status than no thanks.
> 
> If they're going to push for true IC (doubtful, but let's do a hypothetical) - I'd want to know more about what a union is going to do for me. What's it going to cost me who drives 5-10 hours per week vs someone who drives 40+? What are they likely going to ask me to give up in a negotiation with Travis... am I going to have to commit to hours of specific workdays? Am I going to be banned from driving for Lyft? What am I likely to get in return... ability to set my fare or the right to not have fares lowered arbitrarily by Travis when he wants to defeat _his _competitors?
> 
> I think there's way too many unknowns here for me to weigh in either way. I'm glad I don't live in Seattle....


There are union models that support independent contractor work... look at Hollywood - there are unions to support every field from actors, writers, directors, to the crew that rigs lighting, etc. These people aren't employees, they are hired for a specific contract gig and are able to negotiate as a group to ensure a fair rate for their work. Also, as IC's, they are free to negotiate and work for more.

While the hours/duration of each gig are different compared to Uber/Lyft - in the end, they are NOT employees. The employer for each gig is not responsible for providing benefits (although these benefits are typically made available through the union/guild).


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

andaas said:


> There are union models that support independent contractor work... look at Hollywood - there are unions to support every field from actors, writers, directors, to the crew that rigs lighting, etc. These people aren't employees, they are hired for a specific contract gig and are able to negotiate as a group to ensure a fair rate for their work. Also, as IC's, they are free to negotiate and work for more.
> 
> While the hours/duration of each gig are different compared to Uber/Lyft - in the end, they are NOT employees. The employer for each gig is not responsible for providing benefits (although these benefits are typically made available through the union/guild).


Trade unions are also very much an independent contractor union model.


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## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

The most "anti-choice" groups around are unions. They never "ask" you to join- they force you through closed shop agreements.

Just what I need - another set of paper pushers to decide whether I "get" to work. 

As evil as "corporations" are claimed to be, they have a long way to fall before they're anywhere near the depths reached by the Transfers. Just ask Jimmy Hoffa. Oh, wait, you can't - he disappeared decades ago. Just the sorts of folk I want handling my money.

More realistically, you cannot unionize independent contractors -- by definition. You want to form a cartel? Yea, sure. It didn't work for OPEC and it won't work anywhere else.


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## swingset (Feb 26, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> There's a million reasons why joining a union is a good thing and not a single reason why it isn't.


As a 20 year union veteran, I laughed pretty good at that Utopian nonsense.

There are plenty of downsides to union representation, and if you aren't aware of what they might be I suggest you need to learn more about the world. Nothing is free, my friend, nothing. Everything comes at a cost.


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## Lag Monkey (Feb 6, 2015)

For all my full timers out there I have and always will support a union for drivers. The threat of set schedules and lack of freedom is a scare tactic used by uber to keep them from paying us a fair wage. Besides teamsters could write contracts that basically keep the flexibility aspect the same but with set rates and benefits. There isn't any good reason NOT to unionize, these globalist elites have dam near destroyed good paying low skilled jobs with outsourcing and automation and pushing a unions are evil agenda. People are finally pushing back. Don't let uber sneak its way out of this. You can't argue that union jobs = lower pay worse off then non union counter parts. Unions arnt perfect but they raise workers wages. That alone should be reason to unionize


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## Tihstae (Jan 31, 2017)

swingset said:


> As a 20 year union veteran, I laughed pretty good at that Utopian nonsense.


Former union member here: Worked in a shop that became union while I was there. The only thing I got when we went union was a bill. And later added fees on top of the union dues to pay for the president of the local union's defense for threatening an off duty officer on a picket line.

I was not laughing at his comments. I was SCARED that anyone would actually think that there are no downsides to a union.


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## UsedToBeAPartner (Sep 19, 2016)

Maybe the Union threat will cause Uber to force out the idiot in charge. A Union is not necessary but someone who gives a chit about the folks that make them every single dollar they earn is. If Travis can't figure it out then some outside force is going to be required.


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

jonhjax said:


> I have worked in both union and right to work states. I my experience workers get higher pay and better, sometimes much better benefits than workers in right to work states. A non union business I worked at gave me medical and dental insurance for about $12 a week and paid us time and a half for working Saturday or Sunday and if a holiday was on a weekend we got double time and a half. They did this so we didn't go union. I was told this by national, not local management.


In working my day job I see the Collective Bargaining agreements that union workers have protecting them. The pay and benefits far out weighs the dues paid by members. While unions are in no way perfect they give the individual a voice at the bargaining table. Drivers will never get rates increased if they just complaining about it on the forums.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> There's a million reasons why joining a union is a good thing and not a single reason why it isn't. Yes you gotta pay dues but that's a small price to pay to have a contract with rights, benefits, good pay, the ability to not have Uber slash your rates, etc etc. This isn't rocket science. Only morons brainwashed into thinking unions are bad by Republicans and those paid by Uber to rail against unions would not want a union.
> 
> The funny part is Uber, yet again, threatening drivers with the ridiculous "you might lose your flexibility" garbage they use all the time. #UberSpin


I think another problem is the mindset of many of the drivers who are currently driving. Many drivers are recent immigrants who see little to no value in unions. They just want a job and money to feed their families. I believe that the dues we'll pay will be well worth it if means we get a strong partner that can help to negotiate a contract that benefits the drivers. We (drivers) should at least be open to hearing the unions out before we say no.


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## Jermin8r89 (Mar 10, 2016)

The thing im currious about is how would unionizeing on uber work. We work off from an app controlled by travis and his people. They have been going into dark corners breaking the law and still getting away with it. How do we know if we would actually make if difference if they keep low balling us after bringing upon a union.

Would uber have their own medallions?


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

Jermin8r89 said:


> The thing im currious about is how would unionizeing on uber work. We work off from an app controlled by travis and his people. They have been going into dark corners breaking the law and still getting away with it. How do we know if we would actually make if difference if they keep low balling us after bringing upon a union.
> 
> Would uber have their own medallions?


What Seattle has done is basically stated that driver can unionize. This gives drivers not only a voice to negotiate with, but allow the union to file grievances with the Washington State Labor Commission for Unfair Labor Practices. If Uber does not hold up their part of the contract the Labor Commissioner can rule in the driver's favor and set an order that Uber must follow. We all know how much Uber follows the contract that they have now, so I expect a decent amount of work for the Union and Labor Commission.


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

Karen Stein said:


> The most "anti-choice" groups around are unions. They never "ask" you to join- they force you through closed shop agreements.
> 
> Just what I need - another set of paper pushers to decide whether I "get" to work.
> 
> ...


Oh Karen... How are ya? Just shillin'?

Glad to see you brought Hoffa into the thread, sometimes the best way to fight a crook is with another.


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## Buck75 (Mar 15, 2017)

How can I print logos to make a t-shirt


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## garyk (Jan 22, 2016)

REX HAVOC said:


> I think another problem is the mindset of many of the drivers who are currently driving. Many of the drivers are recent immigrants who see little to no value in unions. They just want a job and money to feed their families. I believe that the dues we'll pay will be well worth it if means we get a strong partner that can help to negotiate a contract that benefits the drivers. We (drivers) should at least be open to hearing the unions out before we say no.


The problem with trying to hear the union out as they won't tell you anything until you've said yes trust me I've actually walked into their and asked them and they said we don't know


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

garyk said:


> The problem with trying to hear the union out as they won't tell you anything until you've said yes trust me I've actually walked into their and asked them and they said we don't know


Not really defending the union on this one as the should have bullet points on what they want to do, but negotiations take time. One of the CBAs the firm I work at has been in negotiations for 6 months already.


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## HeyJoe (Jun 12, 2015)

Once you union, the independent contractor goes out the window. Once that is gone and you're an employee, forget sleeping in and forget not working on certain days or nights. it'll be written into the contract. How many hours per week, how many days per week, acceptance rate, cancellation, where you have to have your vehicle with relation to where you live. How long you can be at the airport. etc, etc, etc.
As for me, last thing I want is a contract with Uber and someone else that tells me how to work. I do this for the same reason I use to drive a cab. The independence of working for myself. So no vote for a union by this guy!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> There's a million reasons why joining a union is a good thing and not a single reason why it isn't.


Mm, not so fast. I've been a unionized worker for decades, unions are . . . _can be_ . . . a good thing. The rubber-meets-road question is: how does Local 117 conduct business, and what are their parliamentary procedures?

It could be designed to limit any changes being made that the old-guard doesn't approve of . . . we need to know what the rules are and what will be done with the TNC contractors after we're admitted.



Southdiver said:


> So, you want to take your self employment and replace it with a union?
> That's a pretty good way to have it simply shut down.
> Just ask the auto industry who moved most of production to Mexico.


That's comparing apples with vibrators.

Besides, the Puget Sound/King County market is extremely lucrative. And with California a festering hot rotting mess, with tens-of-thousands fleeing, and businesses getting out while the getting's good, Seattle may be hosting SDC tech. We've got tech creds to prove it!



Southdiver said:


> 2: Uber will push for driverless cars in that market so now you will have a bunch of out of work union Uber drivers.


Have you lived in Seattle long? THAT ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Seattle may have an SDC tech company move in, though.



tohunt4me said:


> WE need UNION LOBBYING POWER !
> EVERY DRIVING JOB IN THE COUNTRY IS IN DANGER OF BEING REPLACED BY ROBOTS !
> 
> Uber dream WORK FORCE IS ROBO CARS !
> ...


Do sheep dream of electric cars?



tohunt4me said:


> Companies like Uber and ubers treatment of drivers is the reason unions were created.


Haaaa, that "Banksy" tag was a nice find!



Southdiver said:


> You are right... except that you are wrong.
> Unions were created to combat child labor, fight for a minimum wage, and support fair working hours.
> None of that applies to an independent contractor. Well, maybe child labor.


That's a Twentieth-Century definition.



Southdiver said:


> I can see where you are coming from.
> So, what happens when Uber simply decides to deactivate all "union member" accounts and just hire new non union drivers? Will it be like the old days of threats and fights? For every one driver who gets deactivated, there are two more willing to drive.


_*If*_ unionization of ICs passes all legal challenges (big if, too), the NRLB would get involved for union-busting.


----------



## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

HeyJoe said:


> Once you union, the independent contractor goes out the window. Once that is gone and you're an employee, forget sleeping in and forget not working on certain days or nights. it'll be written into the contract. How many hours per week, how many days per week, acceptance rate, cancellation, where you have to have your vehicle with relation to where you live. How long you can be at the airport. etc, etc, etc.
> As for me, last thing I want is a contract with Uber and someone else that tells me how to work. I do this for the same reason I use to drive a cab. The independence of working for myself. So no vote for a union by this guy!


Seattle is not taking away the independent contractor status. They are just allow independent contractor to unionize which is not covered by federal law.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

mikes424 said:


> Well I agree having a union has some good points, there is at least one major downside. Many of the drivers are part time working one or two days. Let's face it, most of use don't net the $20/hour most union workers do. That being said, for those that drive low hours would the union dues make driving a losing proposition for the people?


Unions typically (if not always) pro-rate dues.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

crazy916 said:


> In working my day job I see the Collective Bargaining agreements that union workers have protecting them. The pay and benefits far out weighs the dues paid by members. While unions are in no way perfect they give the individual a voice at the bargaining table. Drivers will never get rates increased if they just complaining about it on the forums.


Drivers won't get rate increases with unions either. It's a simple myth to think any union is going to hold any sway over Uber. Also, do you really want Uber regulating you? I think that's bad news right from the start.

Right goal. Wrong target.

Cities and states trying to pass off collective bargaining as the answer are playing you guys for fools. They are passing the buck. It is the city and states responsibility to do things like set rates. That's what you are paying them for.

Tell ya what....let's talk about what we are going to pay those union reps. What are their benefits going to be? Are they going to be union members paying the same dues? Personally....

I'm not interested in any union that pays management more than the average driver. Nor am I interested in shelling out a dime before they can prove what they can deliver. I watched a video from a so cal meeting with some union guys trying to convince a group of drivers of what they could do. It was pretty pathetic.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Dback2004 said:


> The Union thing is interesting. There's an obvious difference between part-timers like me and those trying to do this full time (you guys have my sympathy!!). I don't want to be an employee. I want to be treated like an actual IC, which means setting my own fares in a competitive manner against my competition (other drivers), not being put on time-out for rejecting non-profitable rides (20+ minutes away to a pickup), ability to receive tips in a consumer-friendly manner (ie in-app), and all the Uber propaganda to stop. If a Union is going to push for employee status than no thanks.
> 
> If they're going to push for true IC (doubtful, but let's do a hypothetical) - I'd want to know more about what a union is going to do for me. What's it going to cost me who drives 5-10 hours per week vs someone who drives 40+? What are they likely going to ask me to give up in a negotiation with Travis... am I going to have to commit to hours of specific workdays? Am I going to be banned from driving for Lyft? What am I likely to get in return... ability to set my fare or the right to not have fares lowered arbitrarily by Travis when he wants to defeat _his _competitors?
> 
> I think there's way too many unknowns here for me to weigh in either way. I'm glad I don't live in Seattle....


Exactly! WAY too many unknowns here. Besides this discussion is on the verge of becoming moot because ICs have never been unionized, and it'll be contested in court and/or the TNCs _*might*_ pack-up and leave. I think you're on the right track here to talk in terms of losing IC status which, imo, would have to occur in order for this mess to go forward!


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

REX HAVOC said:


> I think another problem is the mindset of many of the drivers who are currently driving. Many of the drivers are recent immigrants who see little to no value in unions. They just want a job and money to feed their families. I believe that the dues we'll pay will be well worth it if means we get a strong partner that can help to negotiate a contract that benefits the drivers. We (drivers) should at least be open to hearing the unions out before we say no.


I would be happy to hear them out. I have quite a few questions for them....some they are not going to want to answer.

Oh...and in now way am I going to allow a union to take dues out of my pay. I will give them the money if I decide they are working in my best interest and representing me properly.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

It's really simple...raise the Rates to 2/3 of what Taxi's charge in that market and keep things Independent Contractor. We do not need unions. Nor do we need to be employees...if I wanted a job I would just go get one that paid 2 to 3 times what I earn with Uber.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

UberLaLa said:


> It's really simple...raise the Rates to 2/3 of what Taxi's charge in that market and keep things Independent Contractor. We do not need unions. Nor do we need to be employees...if I wanted a job I would just go get one that paid 2 to 3 times what I earn with Uber.


And riders will be thrilled when that happens. Wonder how that rating issue will shake out after that.

But you are right. Raise rate. Everyone has a different number. I think 1.70-1.80 a mile....25 cents a min...buck each for additional passengers.....added money for multiple stops......hmm......where will it end up?


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Red Leader said:


> And riders will be thrilled when that happens. Wonder how that rating issue will shake out after that.
> 
> But you are right. Raise rate. Everyone has a different number. I think 1.70-1.80 a mile....25 cents a min...buck each for additional passengers.....added money for multiple stops......hmm......where will it end up?


I'm totally fine with 2/3 of what Taxis get per mile and minute in my market. Even minimum trips won't be as painful at that.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

UberLaLa said:


> I'm totally fine with 2/3 of what Taxis get per mile and minute in my market. Even minimum trips won't be as painful at that.


Doesn't your market get pretty screwed? Wasn't it a double rate decrease or something like that?

It would be interesting to see the difference in quality of passenger with the increase. As well as the change in the amount of business.

Now....does this eliminate boost or surge?


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Red Leader said:


> Doesn't your market get pretty screwed? Wasn't it a double rate decrease or something like that?
> 
> It would be interesting to see the difference in quality of passenger with the increase. As well as the change in the amount of business.
> 
> Now....does this eliminate boost or surge?


L.A. Taxis are $3 a mile and .35 cents a minute. Los Angeles is one of the most Uber driver _screwed _in the nation @ .90 cents a mile and .15 cents a minute.


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

UberLaLa said:


> It's really simple...raise the Rates to 2/3 of what Taxi's charge in that market and keep things Independent Contractor.  We do not need unions. Nor do we need to be employees...if I wanted a job I would just go get one that paid 2 to 3 times what I earn with Uber.


Maybe not but the threat of a union is the only thing that will bring Uber to the table. Uber will never raise their prices unless they are forced too. I think they could have kept prices up but they wanted to put everyone else out of business and look where that got them. There needs to be legislation that regulates rideshare companies and adopts pricing standards closer to what cabs charge as well stricter background checks. The medallions could be a mix of a business license/tcp permit. Higher prices would allow the drivers to thrive. Riders would still have uber/lyft/cabs to choose from.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

UberLaLa said:


> L.A. Taxis are $3 a mile and .35 cents a minute. Los Angeles is one of the most Uber driver _screwed _in the nation @ .90 cents a mile and .15 cents a minute.


Yea...they screwed you guys.


----------



## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)




----------



## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

REX HAVOC said:


> I think another problem is the mindset of many of the drivers who are currently driving. Many of the drivers are recent immigrants who see little to no value in unions. They just want a job and money to feed their families. I believe that the dues we'll pay will be well worth it if means we get a strong partner that can help to negotiate a contract that benefits the drivers. We (drivers) should at least be open to hearing the unions out before we say no.


True (we need to learn _much_ more about the particulars) but, are you ready to lose you independent contractor status? If we become employees, then get ready for the drip-drip-drip of negotiations, capped wages, I'd guess around $15/hour, loss of things we prize in order to get other things. Bargaining means giving up things to get other things.



crazy916 said:


> What Seattle has done is basically stated that driver can unionize. This gives drivers not only a voice to negotiate with, but allow the union to file grievances with the Washington State Labor Commission for Unfair Labor Practices. If Uber does not hold up their part of the contract the Labor Commissioner can rule in the driver's favor and set an order that Uber must follow. We all know how much Uber follows the contract that they have now, so I expect a decent amount of work for the Union and Labor Commission.


. . . if it even gets that far . . .



garyk said:


> The problem with trying to hear the union out as they won't tell you anything until you've said yes trust me I've actually walked into their and asked them and they said we don't know


Uhhh, well then, our response should be an unequivocal _*we don't know either, then!! *_

We're not gonna have a TPP situation where we don't know what's inside until after we sign it?!?



UberLaLa said:


> It's really simple...raise the Rates to 2/3 of what Taxi's charge in that market and keep things Independent Contractor. We do not need unions. Nor do we need to be employees...if I wanted a job I would just go get one that paid 2 to 3 times what I earn with Uber.


Yes but, all this "wish" talking is just proving the point that the TNCs are non-yielding and do not want to be found or contacted.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

Southdiver said:


> OK. Obviously the drivers wont move to Mexico. That was just a simple example of how unions are actually BAD for the local economy.
> In the case of Uber, one of two things will happen:
> 1: Uber will simply pull out of that local market so now you have a bunch of out of work union Uber drivers.
> 2: Uber will push for driverless cars in that market so now you will have a bunch of out of work union Uber drivers.


Uber and Lyft moved out of Austin and I haven't talked to one driver yet who isn't happier there since they've gone.

They keep threatening to leave Houston. I wish they would.


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Do you work for UBER.
Orgenise labor is the only solution for working class in USA, to be adequately paid for job that they provide for society.
Without orgenise labor force, USA will be thired world country in no time.
COE make $19,000.00 p/h not paying workers min. Wages.
You can take your market free economy to your desktop in real life free market does not exist, we live capital dictatorships.


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## kbrown (Dec 3, 2015)

tohunt4me said:


> Might lose our flexibility to not have to drive 20 hours to pay bills due to constant rate hikes .
> Might Lose our flexibility to be deactivated due to rider false accusation without any way to confront our false accusers.
> Might lose our flexibility to be put on time outs for not accepting rixes 20 minutes away.
> Might lose our flexibility to be deactivated over canceling rides on intoxicated people who act badly.


Not necessarily.

Don't confuse the issues here. We are still independent contractors. Just because we unionize, doesn't mean we lose that status as independent contractors.

Uber would NEVER allow us to become employees. The money they would have to pay in employment taxes alone would put them out of business forever.


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Regulations are protection for driver, because of Ubers unlawfull practices.
Hello, independent contractors. Please, find any contractor in USA that been paid $18p/h
Fined a contractor in USA that second party fixing the price list and working condition without
any "independent" contractor influence.
I would like to be independent contractor, better than amploye. But, I want to be involved 
in a proces of price and working conditions, negotiations.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Here's a list of all the unions I've been in. UFCW, CWA, SMW.

Never had a union job with any bad benefits. Never had a job with no health care. Never had a job where they could fire you for no reason at all. Never had a job where they could lower my pay at will. Should I really go on ?

Yes, you gotta pay about $30 every two weeks. Big ****ing deal. If you can't afford all of the above for $30 every two weeks you're a ****ing loser. Plain and simple.

You really gotta be an idiot not to like unions.

If it wasn't for companies like Uber there would be no unions because we would already be getting the above benefits without having to pay a union for it.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Dback2004 said:


> The Union thing is interesting. There's an obvious difference between part-timers like me and those trying to do this full time (you guys have my sympathy!!). I don't want to be an employee. I want to be treated like an actual IC, which means setting my own fares in a competitive manner against my competition (other drivers), not being put on time-out for rejecting non-profitable rides (20+ minutes away to a pickup), ability to receive tips in a consumer-friendly manner (ie in-app), and all the Uber propaganda to stop. If a Union is going to push for employee status than no thanks.
> 
> If they're going to push for true IC (doubtful, but let's do a hypothetical) - I'd want to know more about what a union is going to do for me. What's it going to cost me who drives 5-10 hours per week vs someone who drives 40+? What are they likely going to ask me to give up in a negotiation with Travis... am I going to have to commit to hours of specific workdays? Am I going to be banned from driving for Lyft? What am I likely to get in return... ability to set my fare or the right to not have fares lowered arbitrarily by Travis when he wants to defeat _his _competitors?
> 
> I think there's way too many unknowns here for me to weigh in either way. I'm glad I don't live in Seattle....


I don't think the Union is interested in signing up part time drivers.
They want full time drivers for membership.

I think no driver's would be dismissed on a false accusation,acceptance rate,or a non transparent ratings system.

Any drivers suspended under a unions watch would have rights to due process. DRIVERS could no longer be discarded on a whim.


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## WeirdBob (Jan 2, 2016)

Southdiver said:


> You will need to provide proof of that.
> One of the reason that Asian and European automakers did NOT set up shop in the motor city is not because of the better weather down south.


Perhaps not final production facilities, but almost EVERY car company and supplier in the world has major engineering and parts facilities in Metro Detroit and Ann Arbor.


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## JSM0713 (Apr 25, 2015)

Let's face it, Uber and Lyft have lowered the rate so drastically over the past two years to make driving ride-share into a part-time endeavor, at best that someone uses occasionally during peak hours to make a few extra $$$. At $0.85 base fare for Miami one cannot hope to make a decent living driving X unless they're willing to work 15 hours a day. If I'd want a union, I'd want it to begin sharing expenses like gas, insurance, maintenance, car-wash, etc. The current model that exists is absurd, but it's the only job I'm willing to work. Something's got to give.


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## Southdiver (Jan 10, 2017)

So, what happens if I want to rideshare but I don't want to join the union?


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## WeirdBob (Jan 2, 2016)

Southdiver said:


> So, what happens if I want to rideshare but I don't want to join the union?


Then you should not be eligible for the same level of benefits and protections as union members.


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## JustADayTrip (Feb 17, 2017)

Will unionized Uber drivers call non-unionized drivers scabs? 
Will the non-unionized drivers join together with cabbies to attack unionized drivers?
Will Uber give a shit?

Stay tuned!


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

JustADayTrip said:


> Will unionized Uber drivers call non-unionized drivers scabs?
> Will the non-unionized drivers join together with cabbies to attack unionized drivers?
> Will Uber give a shit?
> 
> Stay tuned!


Only if there is a strike...


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## Luber4.9 (Nov 25, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> If the law suddenly requires Uber drivers to be employees or somehow there is a driver union, it will certainly hasten the onset of robo-drivers.


Luber is doing everything in their power to "hasten" the onset of autonomous vehicles, regardless of any other concern.

It IS the holy grail for both. It IS hilarious because it will not even work well.


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## chevelle454 (Aug 13, 2015)

Never going to happen anyone that's been involved with a union knows it. Way to many variables.


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## Apu (Feb 22, 2017)

Unions are for loser, entitlement minded sheep.

Do I like the pay rates for Uber? No not necessarily. Do I like the flexibility to make a couple of bucks while I'm out on my regular job? HELL YES

Unions are for drones too stupid to improve their lot in life on their own.

ESPECIALLY now with technology, you are a fool to put your support behind a union. Always remember it is NOT YOUR JOB it is the COMPANY'S JOB therefor they can replace YOU, anytime they want because it is unskilled labor, and with technology they can replace you in a day!

The market will dictate if rates can be raised and drivers make more pay.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)




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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

crazy916 said:


> What Seattle has done is basically stated that driver can unionize. This gives drivers not only a voice to negotiate with, but allow the union to file grievances with the Washington State Labor Commission for Unfair Labor Practices. If Uber does not hold up their part of the contract the Labor Commissioner can rule in the driver's favor and set an order that Uber must follow. We all know how much Uber follows the contract that they have now, so I expect a decent amount of work for the Union and Labor Commission.


Do the Taxi's belong to a Union? If so, why couldn't Uber drivers just get the same protections as the cabbies?


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## crazy916 (Jul 6, 2016)

REX HAVOC said:


> Do the Taxi's belong to a Union? If so, why couldn't Uber drivers just get the same protections as the cabbies?


Most taxi drivers belong to a trade association. Taxi rates are also set on the city/state level, so they don't have to worry about a sudden price drop without notice.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Uber and Lyft moved out of Austin and I haven't talked to one driver yet who isn't happier there since they've gone.
> 
> They keep threatening to leave Houston. I wish they would.


See News forum . . . looks like this is all about to do a 180



uberdriverfornow said:


> Here's a list of all the unions I've been in. UFCW, CWA, SMW.
> 
> Never had a union job with any bad benefits. Never had a job with no health care. Never had a job where they could fire you for no reason at all. Never had a job where they could lower my pay at will. Should I really go on ?
> 
> ...


As with anything in life, do _your due diligence_. Find out what you're getting into before taking a job. You are free to seek employment elsewhere if it ain't workin' out.

AFSCME, BMWE, UTU, IBEW and IATSE have all been good unions to me (. . . ok, not IBEW . . .). Most likely because they represented employees in high-margin industries.

Not all unions are the same. We need Local 117 to "open their kimono" to us. Otherwise, it'd be _VERY_ advisable to PASS!!



Southdiver said:


> So, what happens if I want to rideshare but I don't want to join the union?


Tell them that. If they refuse to let you drive, sue.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

circle1 said:


> See News forum . . . looks like this is all about to do a 180
> 
> As with anything in life, do _your due diligence_. Find out what you're getting into before taking a job. You are free to seek employment elsewhere if it ain't workin' out.
> 
> ...


Is it safe to assume you quoted the wrong person and didn't mean to quote me ?


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## Dback2004 (Nov 7, 2015)

UberLaLa said:


> L.A. Taxis are $3 a mile and .35 cents a minute. Los Angeles is one of the most Uber driver _screwed _in the nation @ .90 cents a mile and .15 cents a minute.


Hmph, my market is $0.60/mi... Granted in the middle or nowhere fuel and maintenance costs are significantly lower



Southdiver said:


> So, what happens if I want to rideshare but I don't want to join the union?


I am not well researched on unions (yet, it hasn't come up around my area yet) but from a couple of my friends that are union companies employees have no choice but to join and pay. Take that with a grain of salt, obvious differences between educators and construction EMPLOYEES vs ride share independent contractors.


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## UberLaLa (Sep 6, 2015)

Dback2004 said:


> Hmph, my market is *$0.60/mi... *Granted in the middle or nowhere fuel and maintenance costs are significantly lower


Wow! Just wow....


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

circle1 said:


> We need Local 117 to "open their kimono" to us. Otherwise, it'd be _VERY_ advisable to PASS!


 I hope they wear underwear under that Kimono.


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## Matty760 (Nov 9, 2015)

Why do we need a union to do this stuff for us? If we are IC's then why can't we just email Uber and say hey I want the rate for my services to be at $x amount per mile and etc. They legally have to honor our request don't they? Employers set pay rates which is what Uber is doing, but since we are ICs we are contracted and dictate the pay don't we?


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## REX HAVOC (Jul 4, 2016)

Because right now we don't speak with one voice; we're scattered. There are just too many of us spread all across the nation. We need a way to bring everyone together so we can effect change. They can also help to pass legislation to set pay per mile like the cabs have. If a union can get a foothold in on area maybe it will be enough to scare Uber into negotiating.


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## Jthomas11 (Dec 15, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> There's a million reasons why joining a union is a good thing and not a single reason why it isn't. Yes you gotta pay dues but that's a small price to pay to have a contract with rights, benefits, good pay, the ability to not have Uber slash your rates, etc etc. This isn't rocket science. Only morons brainwashed into thinking unions are bad by Republicans and those paid by Uber to rail against unions would not want a union.
> 
> The funny part is Uber, yet again, threatening drivers with the ridiculous "you might lose your flexibility" garbage they use all the time. #UberSpin


Why u say republicans? My dads union for US Steel voted trump in this year and I don't believe all unions r good. Unions r why car companies leave the US. I make very good money driving with uber and sure I put more then 40 hours in a week to do it but I also own a lawn care company that is getting ready to gear up this spring and I will miss full time uber! I love my uber job. I think people like to ***** to much. U gotta put time in to get things out of it. Everyone wants to work 40 hours a week and make 100,000 a year. Doesn't happen that way


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## WeirdBob (Jan 2, 2016)

Apu said:


> Do I like the flexibility to make a couple of bucks while I'm out on my regular job? HELL YES


Wait... are you saying you are double dipping? Driving Uber WHILE on your regular job? Or do you mean you drive Uber when NOT on your regular job?

If I were an employer, and someone was driving Uber while I am paying them to work for me, they would be fired.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

uberdriverfornow said:


> Is it safe to assume you quoted the wrong person and didn't mean to quote me ?


See the poster's name at top (it says fuzzyelvis)?



Matty760 said:


> Why do we need a union to do this stuff for us? If we are IC's then why can't we just email Uber and say hey I want the rate for my services to be at $x amount per mile and etc. They legally have to honor our request don't they? Employers set pay rates which is what Uber is doing, but since we are ICs we are contracted and dictate the pay don't we?


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

Complains about the money he makes at his part time job driving for Uber.

Decides giving a further portion of his income to a union will help solve the problem.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

REX HAVOC said:


> I hope they wear underwear under that Kimono.


Then how will we able to, umm, size them up??


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## iUBERdc (Dec 28, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber is breathing heavy over the thought of replacing every driver in the country with Robots.


Bet they won't last to the day SDC finally become a reality. I hope they get destroyed by an injuction from google's lawsuit for stealing technology



Jermin8r89 said:


> Some cities already have laws against self driveing like chicago. I expect more stuff like that to happen. Tech companies need to slow their role as its only helping out the rich


These cities are scared of masses of newly employed men with nothing to lose



HeyJoe said:


> Once you union, the independent contractor goes out the window. Once that is gone and you're an employee, forget sleeping in and forget not working on certain days or nights. it'll be written into the contract. How many hours per week, how many days per week, acceptance rate, cancellation, where you have to have your vehicle with relation to where you live. How long you can be at the airport. etc, etc, etc.
> As for me, last thing I want is a contract with Uber and someone else that tells me how to work. I do this for the same reason I use to drive a cab. The independence of working for myself. So no vote for a union by this guy!


To be honest, the whole business model of this company is IC. Without, it comes crashing down


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## Polomarko (Dec 20, 2016)

Apu said:


> Unions are for loser, entitlement minded sheep.
> 
> Do I like the pay rates for Uber? No not necessarily. Do I like the flexibility to make a couple of bucks while I'm out on my regular job? HELL YES
> 
> ...


Unfortunately free market does not exist in this country any more. Speculators and market manipulation are in charge for are lifes.
So, please stop dreaming that market will regulate prices.Uber and Lyft regulate prices on a very manipulative way.


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## iUBERdc (Dec 28, 2016)

Polomarko said:


> Unfortunately free market does not exist in this country any more. Speculators and market manipulation are in charge for are lifes.
> So, please stop dreaming that market will regulate prices.Uber and Lyft regulate prices on a very manipulative way.


I literally LMAO when some libertarian shreks about how the market will make everything right. The market used to drop peoples' insurance when they got sick and let them die. Is that the market efficiency and doing whats best for the customer?


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

circle1 said:


> See the poster's name at top (it says fuzzyelvis)?


No, cause I got him on ignore.


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## nash801 (Apr 17, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber had years to treat drivers right.
> Travis was recorded telling one of his " dates" in that incident with the lux. Driver (still viewable here !) That " UBER WAS SUPPOSED TO GET HARDER EVERY YEAR FOR DRIVERS."
> UBERS GOAL IS TO REPLACE ALL DRIVERS WITH MACHINES !
> THAT IS DOCCUMENTED AND WELL KNOWN.
> ...


Documented...one c



uberdriverfornow said:


> There's a million reasons why joining a union is a good thing and not a single reason why it isn't. Yes you gotta pay dues but that's a small price to pay to have a contract with rights, benefits, good pay, the ability to not have Uber slash your rates, etc etc. This isn't rocket science. Only morons brainwashed into thinking unions are bad by Republicans and those paid by Uber to rail against unions would not want a union.
> 
> The funny part is Uber, yet again, threatening drivers with the ridiculous "you might lose your flexibility" garbage they use all the time. #UberSpin


Unions suck! I was letter carrier at post office. Union never helped me. Unions are just like mgmt. Greedy impersonal uncaring thugs.
Also, nothing wrong with Republicans or trump


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

nash801 said:


> Documented...one c
> 
> Unions suck! I was letter carrier at post office. Union never helped me. Unions are just like mgmt. Greedy impersonal uncaring thugs.
> Also, nothing wrong with Republicans or trump


Is it wise to lump them all under one flag? IATSE is a kick-ass-take-names union!


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

REX HAVOC said:


> Because right now we don't speak with one voice; we're scattered. There are just too many of us spread all across the nation. We need a way to bring everyone together so we can effect change. They can also help to pass legislation to set pay per mile like the cabs have. If a union can get a foothold in on area maybe it will be enough to scare Uber into negotiating.


Otherwise,wait for ALL driving jobs to go to Robots.
Communist Chineese Robots no doubt !


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## Uberpoordriver (Jan 16, 2016)

If uber is against union then I'm for unions because uber doesn't care about drivers


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

In a union environment, you can't just turn the app on and off when you want. There will be shifts to be worked and minimum and maximum hours each day. Breaks will be mandatory. There will be meetings to attend and dues to be paid. It will take time and money. Representatives and committees will make decisions for you. Passenger complaints will be handled by union reps and may result in disciplinary action including suspensions and even dismissal. There would be new rules and restrictions. You would likely not be able to turn down, decline or cancel a trip as you do now. You would have to accept every trip, just as taxis are required to do. But go ahead and sign up for the union. They do take some of your dues and give you free brewed coffee at the meetings. There is always that to look forward to.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd (Aug 17, 2015)

Southdiver said:


> So, you want to take your self employment and replace it with a union?
> That's a pretty good way to have it simply shut down.
> Just ask the auto industry who moved most of production to Mexico.


Uhm, OK that's somewhat true for manufacturing. But how would one "move" rideshare to Mexico?


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

Red Leader said:


> I will not sign up for any union that pays management more than the average drivers pay.


But I bet you're more than willing to accept whatever wage/benefits increase they might get for their members.


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

phillipzx3 said:


> But I bet you're more than willing to accept whatever wage/benefits increase they might get for their members.


ubetcha.

Best scenario is I make a mint scabbing while union sheep are sacrificing income to strike, then I benefit from the negotiated benefits increase.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

phillipzx3 said:


> But I bet you're more than willing to accept whatever wage/benefits increase they might get for their members.


Funny you should say that.....

I seem to have no trouble doing well at this job with out a union. In fact, many of us are doing just fine. We find it quite hilarious that people in good markets can't seem to make this work.

We don't need a union. We simply need the city to do their job. But let's go with your statement......

The unions job is not to enrich the coffers of those not driving at the expense of the members. Those running things always seem to end up with a salary and benefits package disporportioned to those doing the actual work. As I clearly said, I will not sign up for any union that does that to its members. Also, non union members get no protection from the union.

Let's add one more thing, when asked, the union has never said what they can actually do for us. In a recorded meeting in so cal, they were asked exactly that. What can you do for us and under what authority? No answer. Problem is, that's the first, most important question to be answered BEFORE you ask us for money.

Now, your statement would imply that you are ok with a two tiered system where the workers get less than those doing the negotiations. If that works for you, that's ok. I'm not remotely interested in that work structure.

Fact is, despite pending legislation in CA, unions hold zero authority to negotiate or effect ANY CHANGE WITH UBER OR LYFT. I am also sckeptical of their intentions because they are simply ignoring the obvious target where they could do some good for their own cnetituants......cab drivers. Why hasn't the people representing cab drivers forced city hall to set a floor rate for ride share? That helps cab drivers. Yet....nothing. Crickets. No demonstrations at city hall.

Their motivations are clear.... exploit another group of people for their own benefit. They can avoid this by simply limiting the pay and benefits of union reps to no more than....let's say....125% of the average driver. We can play with that number, but it's an excellent starting place.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Driving and Driven said:


> In a union environment, you can't just turn the app on and off when you want. There will be shifts to be worked and minimum and maximum hours each day. Breaks will be mandatory. There will be meetings to attend and dues to be paid. It will take time and money. Representatives and committees will make decisions for you. Passenger complaints will be handled by union reps and may result in disciplinary action including suspensions and even dismissal. There would be new rules and restrictions. You would likely not be able to turn down, decline or cancel a trip as you do now. You would have to accept every trip, just as taxis are required to do. But go ahead and sign up for the union. They do take some of your dues and give you free brewed coffee at the meetings. There is always that to look forward to.


. . . But, that is _*all*_ speculation.

Bottom line (for Seattle drivers): unless Local 117 provides detailed answers to questions, pass.


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## Steveyoungerthanmontana (Nov 19, 2016)

Just make the robot cars used for replacing humans illegal. I don't know why people can't fathom this. Robots should have less rights than humans.


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## Dragonetti (Feb 16, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> There's a million reasons why joining a union is a good thing and not a single reason why it isn't. Yes you gotta pay dues but that's a small price to pay to have a contract with rights, benefits, good pay, the ability to not have Uber slash your rates, etc etc. This isn't rocket science. Only morons brainwashed into thinking unions are bad by Republicans and those paid by Uber to rail against unions would not want a union.
> 
> The funny part is Uber, yet again, threatening drivers with the ridiculous "you might lose your flexibility" garbage they use all the time. #UberSpin


Unions are a joke!! 70years ago prior to labor laws, they had meaning and value but not anymore. If we don't like how Uber treats us, move on!! If I don't want to drive , I won't but I like this little part time gig...like I said, part-time! You full time drivers are fools.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Uber does not do right by drivers !
They need Union help to do the right thing.


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

I just keep seeing these people posting screenshots of grossing $300 or $400 in eight hours or less and I'm thinking this is not so much of a humanitarian need issue. People just need to learn how to drive.


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## Red Leader (Sep 4, 2016)

Steveyoungerthanmontana said:


> Just make the robot cars used for replacing humans illegal. I don't know why people can't fathom this. Robots should have less rights than humans.


Ok....do that. I will eagerly observe you doing this.


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## vladi (Jan 15, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber is breathing heavy over the thought of replacing every driver in the country with Robots.


They should start replacing support monkeys with robots!!!! robots can easily copy/paste with name change for everyone!!!!


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## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

Southdiver said:


> I can see where you are coming from.
> So, what happens when Uber simply decides to deactivate all "union member" accounts and just hire new non union drivers? Will it be like the old days of threats and fights? For every one driver who gets deactivated, there are two more willing to drive.


They will have one of the quickest, easiest litigated giant ass class action suit against them and they will lose .... bigly (sic).

Look up the NLRA and Taft-Hartley act ... they don't give union busters cement shoes anymore, they just make them buy a new pair ... for everyone!


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> They will have one of the quickest, easiest litigated giant ass class action suit against them and they will lose .... bigly (sic).
> 
> Look up the NLRA and Taft-Hartley act ... they don't give union busters cement shoes anymore, they just make them buy a new pair ... for everyone!


The suit would be Y U U G E!


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

I'm going to the meeting tomorrow at Seattle city hall. Want to see what kind of propaganda boober is spewing.


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## corniilius (Jan 27, 2017)

Not interested in unionizing for something that is strictly a side gig for me. What I make is mine and mine alone. don't like what you make? Then find something else!


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## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

Dragonetti said:


> Unions are a joke!! 70years ago prior to labor laws, they had meaning and value but not anymore. If we don't like how Uber treats us, move on!! If I don't want to drive , I won't but I like this little part time gig...like I said, part-time! You full time drivers are fools.


Except we're independent contractors and labor laws don't apply to us. It isn't technically a union status - it just allows us the power to collectively bargain.


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## Fishchris (Aug 31, 2016)

I don't need a union. I need to see the base rate doubled.


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## Surgeless in Seattle (Aug 30, 2015)

Fishchris said:


> I don't need a union. I need to see the base rate doubled.


What is your base rate? Look at Seattle's. Wonder why we're so much higher? We've escaped the rate cuts by protesting collectively in 2015 and then the city has had Uber running scared when they passed the ordinance allowing us to vote for collective bargaining in Dec 2015. No way in hell is uber going to drop rates on us in the face of that vote - but you keep knocking the union ...


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## goon70056 (Apr 21, 2016)

Surgeless in Seattle said:


> What is your base rate? Look at Seattle's. Wonder why we're so much higher? We've escaped the rate cuts by protesting collectively in 2015 and then the city has had Uber running scared when they passed the ordinance allowing us to vote for collective bargaining in Dec 2015. No way in hell is uber going to drop rates on us in the face of that vote - but you keep knocking the union ...


Uber rates are higher anywhere in the west compared to most of the U.S. thanks to the higher cost if living. Has nothing to with useless unions.
By the way, Seattles rates right now are down compared to the same time last year. Thanks. Unions?


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

uberdriverfornow said:


> There's a million reasons why joining a union is a good thing and not a single reason why it isn't. Yes you gotta pay dues but that's a small price to pay to have a contract with rights, benefits, good pay, the ability to not have Uber slash your rates, etc etc. This isn't rocket science. Only morons brainwashed into thinking unions are bad by Republicans and those paid by Uber to rail against unions would not want a union.
> 
> The funny part is Uber, yet again, threatening drivers with the ridiculous "you might lose your flexibility" garbage they use all the time. #UberSpin


 Perhaps you should join a union as a newbie and you will discover how discouraging it is for someone in their 50s just trying to make extra cash commensurate with the effort put in.

No union will ever reward you for working harder than another dues payer.

I have many issues with Uber. But I do recognize the Uber business model cannot exist in a union environment. Uber is for people who cannot devote 30 years to climb the seniority ladder. Tell me what union will allow you to walk out your front door and go to work and make more money than someone who has been working all year???

Advocates for unionizing are solely people who want Uber as a full-time job. They actually desire making the business model more difficult for the average person to make some casual money.

Do your homework before you get sucked in


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Diamondraider said:


> Perhaps you should join a union as a newbie and you will discover how discouraging it is for someone in their 50s just trying to make extra cash commensurate with the effort put in.
> 
> No union will ever reward you for working harder than another dues payer.
> 
> ...


Misinformation^


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

circle1 said:


> Misinformation^


^^^ Misinformed ^^^

That just sounds like someone going around yelling "fake news".


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

Are the shills infesting this thread now?

I hope the teamsters butt**** uber with demands and they are forced to pull out of Seattle, that way they clear the way for Juno or any other rideshare not on a power trip, things will become as lovely and profitable as they are in Austin where they don't set foot and were kicked out.

The parasites pulled out thinking the city wasn't going to be able to live without them (the ****ing arrogance!) and it turns out their hole was filled almost immediately by other companies who actually pay and now they are trying to come back, hahaha.

When they threaten you to leave because they can't fulfill your demands, let them go, they will be back, all parasites do.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

circle1 said:


> Misinformation^


Perhaps you are correct. I spoke generally of unions and that is not fair. I will say I have been a member of, and a manager for, several unions and my statements are exactly accurate.

Plus, I saw it on the innernet,doofus...


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## Ride-Share-Risk-Manager (Mar 16, 2017)

I was approached by a reporter friend who is doing a follow up article for Bloomberg News about the impact of the recent ride share legislation in NJ on Uber and Lyft and whether it will help to eliminate drivers who are operating with the use of false documents or who are illegal aliens operating under false or another drivers identity.

Uber and Lyft have argued their commercial background checks are more comprehensive and accurate than the fingerprint checks used for NJ taxi and limo drivers. Representatives from the companies have told legislative committees in NJ and in other states that they already subject drivers to extensive background checks to determine if drivers have been convicted of any crimes. My experience and that of my small circle of driver friends is that Lyft do a far better job of confirming a drivers identity than Uber. When we take Ubers as passengers our collective belief is that at least 30% of the Uber drivers in NJ are operating without proper licenses and documentation. In the last few months, we have seen a distinct rise in the number of Uber drivers coming to pick us up (my family and friends) who come from India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and South East Asia, who cannot speak a word of English, who clearly don't know their way around NJ and who would not be covered by Uber's insurance policy. But, these drivers appear to have passed Uber's background and criminal check, despite the fact that many of them are three weeks in the USA and could not pass a driver's license test. This problem does not exist in NYC where I drive because all of the Uber drivers are regulated by the NY T&LC.

I am curious about anybody else's experience or feedback from their passengers and in other states.

Ride-Share-Risk-Manager, Yesterday at 7:25 AM Report


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## JJS (Jan 5, 2016)

Wow. I read this and clearly you have no idea what the he!! Is going on here in the emerald city.
1. We have the Teamsters as our union. 
2. They have done everything in there power to protect their current members taxis. 
3. They want to limit the number of TNC vehicles and have been pushing that since they have been here. 
4. Our "union" president refers to us as "felons". 
5. The Regalatians at the airport were lobbied for the taxis restricting fleet participation to 43MPG.
6. Teamsters are going to try and limit TNC to 150 vehicles online at a time...

The fox is watching the hen house. This is a bad situation. Uber and Lyft will leave the city of Seattle. They can not afford to gamble on having to hire 10000 seattle drivers. The precedent as I have said before will bankrupt them. 

The city of Seattle will be offline but the rest of the state will be open. 

If these companies would have the foresight of paying their people fairly the 7 pages of posts would be about something more entertaining. 

As I have also stated in the Seattle forum. Have a plan. One night the app will not work and if you have no plan panic will set in. 

Amazon will be able to fill those 7000 jobs that are vacant in the Puget Sound region.


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## heynow321 (Sep 3, 2015)

JJS said:


> Amazon will be able to fill those 7000 jobs that are vacant in the Puget Sound region.


Lol with who? A bunch of former Uber drivers who can barely speak English?


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## JJS (Jan 5, 2016)

Have you seen the work force. He has a pulse...next...


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## Steven Ambrose (Sep 25, 2016)

Sharp moves to unionize should happen. The deal is when Uber is forced to do something to better things for it's drivers, they are quick to pull out.


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## uberdriverfornow (Jan 10, 2016)

Diamondraider said:


> Perhaps you should join a union as a newbie and you will discover how discouraging it is for someone in their 50s just trying to make extra cash commensurate with the effort put in.
> 
> No union will ever reward you for working harder than another dues payer.
> 
> ...


lol Nothing in your entire post is correct. It sounds like next you"re going to be spouting "the sky is falling".

Also as I said before..



uberdriverfornow said:


> Here's a list of all the unions I've been in. UFCW, CWA, SMW.
> 
> Never had a union job with any bad benefits. Never had a job with no health care. Never had a job where they could fire you for no reason at all. Never had a job where they could lower my pay at will. Should I really go on ?
> 
> ...


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

chitownXdriver said:


> The Seattle tussle is the latest challenge to Uber's independent contractor model, which pushes expenses such as fuel, vehicle maintenance and insurance on to the drivers, in exchange for the promise of a steady stream of riders and a flexible work schedule. The model is a chief reason for Uber's $68 billion valuation, though the company has faced a near-constant stream of lawsuits challenging the classification as nonemployees.
> 
> A Seattle ordinance passed in 2015 took effect in January giving drivers the right to vote to organize, meaning some 10,000 Uber contractors could win the right to negotiate fares and benefits. The dispute has taken on added urgency in recent days as the Teamsters seek access to driver contact information from Uber and rival Lyft Inc. to help with organizing efforts, even as lawsuits challenging the ordinance roll in, including from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and a group of 11 drivers backed by the National Right to Work Committee.
> 
> ...


A union? Minimum wage guarantees? Not nobody, not know how!


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