# Ex-Uber CSR (as of last week) for NYC: Ask me Anything



## john djjjoe

Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


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## arto71

john djjjoe said:


> Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


This will be a very long thread.
Does uber resets pax rating to 5* after it drops below some level?


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## UberXinSoFlo

I reported a serious issue to uber about a pax and they wouldn't tell me if they banned him, just referenced a "zero tolerance policy". 

Do pax ever actually get banned, how many complaints does it generally take, is just the driver's word enough or does there have to be a police report or something?


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## UberCemetery

Welcome to the Forum @john djjjoe Thanks for joining.


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## UberCemetery

Would you ever be a driver for Uber?


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## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

john djjjoe said:


> Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


Most of us are at $.75/mile, which means $.60 after uber cut, which means $.30 if only half ur miles are paid (typical). So you actually LOSE $.27/mile (using IRS $.57). You LOSE a little on each trip, but can try to make it up on volume! The question is does Uber actually realize that they are just prostituting their drivers, and they are losing $? Are they just knowing that there are a million more unemployed desperate dummies in line that cant do math, and need to literally "eat their car"?


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## john djjjoe

UberXinSoFlo said:


> I reported a serious issue to uber about a pax and they wouldn't tell me if they banned him, just referenced a "zero tolerance policy".
> 
> Do pax ever actually get banned, how many complaints does it generally take, is just the driver's word enough or does there have to be a police report or something?


Pax can be banned however there is nothing to stop them from simply making a new account. I've never seen someone be banned however from discussions I think if there was some sort of court case adjudicating fault we might have done it. Neither your word nor even what you tell a police officer (and thus have entered into a police report) are unbiased accounts unless an officer saw something unfolding in front of him which I never saw.



arto71 said:


> This will be a very long thread.
> Does uber resets pax rating to 5* after it drops below some level?


There is no automated process that I know of however it is technically possible for it to be done manually (although I wouldn't deny I've seen some repeated/absurd complaints from 5* riders which lead me to think the programmers might have put some sort of easter egg into our system that does it automatically at some point  however I would add I have NEVER seen or heard of this being done manually

Seriously though- 5* riders tend to be new, it is extremely unlikely



Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Most of us are at $.75/mile, which means $.60 after uber cut, which means $.30 if only half ur miles are paid (typical). So you actually LOSE $.27/mile (using IRS $.57). You LOSE a little on each trip, but can try to make it up on volume! The question is does Uber actually realize that they are just prostituting their drivers, and they are losing $? Are they just knowing that there are a million more unemployed desperate dummies in line that cant do math, and need to literally "eat their car"?


With the amount of money being raised right now, nobody cares. The business model is not about matching you with passengers (but that is supposed to become profitable for the firm long term within about a year) it goes far beyond that.


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## MikeB

john djjjoe said:


> Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


Did they fire you?


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## UberCemetery

@john djjjoe Whats the word about this forum amongst Uber and CSRS?


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## john djjjoe

UberCemetery said:


> Would you ever be a driver for Uber?


On weekends during the day if I was in high school and could drive my parents car where they paid insurance and gas


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## john djjjoe

MikeB said:


> Did they fire you?


No I left for a corporate development position at another firm where I'm starting on Monday.


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## UberCemetery

What advice do you have for us drivers?


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## john djjjoe

UberCemetery said:


> @john djjjoe Whats the word about this forum amongst Uber and CSRS?


50% of the people here would complain regardless of what Uber did and make worthless comments/complaints, 40% of you work for Lyft, and 10% of you provide meaningful anecdotal feedback


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## UberHammer

Did you ever have to send a canned response that personally you really disagreed with? If yes, how often?


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## john djjjoe

UberCemetery said:


> What advice do you have for us drivers?


Ask more specific questions 

Do your best but be aware that the more people who activate the more people you'll be competing with who don't have the same wage standards you do (and activations are not slowing down). Uber seems more like a replacement for traditional dispatcher services now than anything else.


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## arto71

john djjjoe said:


> Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


Where did you find out about this site(UPnet)?
Does uber monitors this site?


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## UberCemetery

Ok how about advice on how to stop the rates from keep going down?


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## john djjjoe

UberHammer said:


> Did you ever have to send a canned response that personally you really disagreed with? If yes, how often?


None that I disagreed with really, I tried to avoid taking sides when responding to complaints so it was hard to say I *disagreed* with anything. To put it simply, we wanted problems to go away. If customer is complaining about you/your car unless they have complaints for >75% of rides they have credibility and get a credit based on their ride history (the more they've paid the more I can pay them in credit to make them happy). If you are complaining about customer there really isn't much I'm going to do unless they did something illegal or outside the realm of normal expectations (making you wait, *dirtying* your car are not polite but they are *reasonable* expectations of what you will experience while driving as a partner). Outside of responding to complaints complaints canned responses are not the norm thankfully (and in fairness the situations wouldn't warrant them generally speaking).

That said there are people working there who will send canned responses to anything they receive just to keep their responses/hour high but they don't last long when it becomes apparent that everything they are responding to is being escalated. Managers don't like that.


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## UberCemetery

john djjjoe said:


> No I left for a corporate development position at another firm where I'm starting on Monday.


Congrats on the new job.


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## john djjjoe

arto71 said:


> Where did you find out about this site(UPnet)?
> Does uber monitors this site?


A friend who works on social media coverage.
Not officially.


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## john djjjoe

UberCemetery said:


> Ok how about advice on how to stop the rates from keep going down?


Do you have advice on how I can stop taxes from going up? 

Deactivate with Uber and get everyone else to do so as well. You'll need far more people than are on this forum to get involved.


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## XLEX

Does über plan on implementing any kinda of phone support in the future?


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## john djjjoe

XLEX said:


> Does über plan on implementing any kinda of phone support in the future?


I'm sorry but I'm confused by this question- do you mean like non-smartphones?


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## bilyvh

Is there another rate cut in the near future for NYC?


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## scrurbscrud

john djjjoe said:


> Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


We already know none of you are allowed to engage in anything but a canned spam relationship with drivers that is usually not related whatsoever to any actual driver issues. 

Not your fault, of course.


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## UberCemetery

Is surge manipulated in anyway?


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## CJ ASLAN

What will the weather be like today, one year from now?


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## john djjjoe

bilyvh said:


> Is there another rate cut in the near future for NYC?


Without saying anything that would give away what stats I was privy to, I would be surprised if there wasn't one soon. There's enough turnover that I'm not the only one who left last week (and I'm not 31 years old for the record ) but I don't want to kill my references.



UberCemetery said:


> Is surge manipulated in anyway?


Skynet is left to its own devices but occasionally the programmers will push updates to the system and it seems to happen more or less frequently.

Short answer is yes
Long answer is no we don't have a big red button under a locked plastic cover we can press to turn on surge (and I anticipate this is what you were asking about )



CJ ASLAN said:


> What will the weather be like today, one year from now?


Cloudy with a chance of meatballs



CJ ASLAN said:


> Will I find a woman to love me?


Probably not. You seem a bit immature.


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## CJ ASLAN

How do we know you actually worked for Uber?


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## UberCemetery

yes thanks


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## john djjjoe

CJ ASLAN said:


> How do we know you actually worked for Uber?


How do I know you are actually a driver/aren't in communications monitoring social media?


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## Chauffeur_James

How do you handle drivers that are pissed about rate cuts, do you have to input any info so that Uber can see how many drivers are mad and leaving or does Uber think we are so easy to replace that they just kind of blow us off. I guess I'm asking, is Uber at all concerned with the happiness of their partners?


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## XLEX

john djjjoe said:


> I'm sorry but I'm confused by this question- do you mean like non-smartphones?


 Like customer service support Via Phone for drivers/riders?


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## john djjjoe

Chauffeur_James said:


> How do you handle drivers that are pissed about rate cuts, do you have to input any info so that Uber can see how many drivers are mad and leaving or does Uber think we are so easy to replace that they just kind of blow us off. I guess I'm asking, is Uber at all concerned with the happiness of their partners?


Depends how you express being pissed off. If you send us an email complaining we'll send you back an email quoting some policy which may or may not exist and remind you about something great coming up soon in your area that will *definitely* improve things (regardless of whether it's even relevant); if some news media picks up on it so that it might get back to the investors in a meaningful way then someone might actually pay attention to you but you'll be under a microscope for any legitimate reason to deactivate you.



XLEX said:


> Like customer service support Via Phone for drivers/riders?


You can use your phone to send emails 

Paying people to talk to people costs too much. There are ways to get someone on the phone but they will never be advertised.


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## UberHammer

Do you believe Uber lies?

If not, do you believe they spin the truth? If yes, how far do they turn the dial?


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## UberCemetery

Were you contracting for this company? https://www.zerochaos.com/

Thats what most of the CSRs have said. Were you working mostly from home or the local Uber office? Seems like working from home would be a pretty good gig.


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## scrurbscrud

john djjjoe said:


> Depends how you express being pissed off. If you send us an email complaining we'll send you back an email quoting *some policy which may or may not exist and remind you about something great coming up soon in your area that will *definitely* improve things *(regardless of whether it's even relevant);


Indeed. The false promises that invoke hope for a change. Most of us are familiar enough with those angles, that never show up for some odd reasons.



> if some news media picks up on it so that it might get back to the investors in a meaningful way then someone might actually pay attention to you but you'll be under a microscope for any legitimate reason to deactivate you.


Pretty sure any imminent threat to the forthcoming billions IPO is handled by any methods able to be paid for.


> Paying people to talk to people costs too much. There are ways to get someone on the phone but they will never be advertised.


It is pretty funny/strange in our 'new' economy that you can work for/with a company, get money, and NEVER actually speak to anyone personally or meet anyone who actually works for the companies face to face.

Even the one person I spoke to at Uber's office was a subcontractor. I asked him if he worked for Uber. Nope. Subcontractor: Not allowed to say anything for Uber other than his pre-dictated spam areas.



> if some news media picks up on it so that it might get back to the investors in a meaningful way then someone might actually pay attention to you but *you'll be under a microscope for any legitimate reason to deactivate you.*


Most of the posters here could give a **** about that anymore.


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## UberHammer

scrurbscrud said:


> Most of the posters here could give a **** about that anymore.


I've got a bottle of champagne waiting for that day.


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## john djjjoe

UberHammer said:


> Do you believe Uber lies?
> 
> If not, do you believe they spin the truth? If yes, how far do they turn the dial?


I believe anything they say however I do pay attention to the timing and the context.
You should believe your bank statements.



UberCemetery said:


> Were you contracting for this company? (notetheforummademremovethelink)
> 
> Thats what most of the CSRs have said. Were you working mostly from home or the local Uber office? Seems like working from home would be a pretty good gig.


I was on a higher level/on the team that moved over from the SF office when LIC opened up so I actually worked from the office. There was a decent amount of flexibility but if I stayed at home there better have been a number of complaints that had been escalated that were dealt with that day above normal.



scrurbscrud said:


> Indeed. The false promises that invoke hope for a change. Most of us are familiar enough with those angles, that never show up for some odd reasons.
> 
> Pretty sure any imminent threat to the forthcoming billions IPO is handled by any methods able to be paid for.
> 
> It is pretty funny/strange in our 'new' economy that you can work for/with a company, get money, and NEVER actually speak to anyone personally or meet anyone who actually works for the companies face to face.
> 
> Even the one person I spoke to at Uber's office was a subcontractor. I asked him if he worked for Uber. Nope. Subcontractor: Not allowed to say anything for Uber other than his pre-dictated spam areas.
> 
> Most of the posters here could give a **** about that anymore.


Most people are, we have a skeleton team to manage the subcontractors across all locations at this point. As for the NYC office the ratio of Uber employees (all management level) to subcontractors seemed skewed to say the least... I can only assume temp agencies love us.


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## UberHammer

john djjjoe said:


> I believe anything they say however I do pay attention to the timing and the context.
> You should believe your bank statements.


My bank statements tell me Uber's driver recruiting marketing is full of shit.


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## scrurbscrud

UberHammer said:


> I've got a bottle of champagne waiting for that day.


Indeed. It's the opposite of fear and cowering.

Celebration!


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## elelegido

john djjjoe said:


> 50% of the people here would complain regardless of what Uber did


Nonsense.


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## LAuberX

Some good info already John djjoe, thanks for sharing.


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## chi1cabby

UberXinSoFlo said:


> I reported a serious issue to uber about a pax and they wouldn't tell me if they banned him, just referenced a "zero tolerance policy".
> 
> Do pax ever actually get banned, how many complaints does it generally take, is just the driver's word enough or does there have to be a police report or something?





john djjjoe said:


> I've never seen someone be banned however from discussions I think if there was some sort of court case adjudicating fault we might have done it


Wow!
So much for insuring a Safe work environment for Drivers by not suspending or outright banning Riders against whom serious complaint/s have been lodged by "Partners".
Just as I'd always thought: Uber not only has No "Riders Code Of Conduct", but never Bans Rider Accs. short of a criminal complaint being filed by a Driver.


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## buster11xx

John D--

Thank you for your comments. They are interesting to see from a driver prospective.

A few questions:

Deactivations--are they common. Do you see most over ratings, or acceptance rates or customer feedback? Is there much consideration for longer term drivers?

Do you see most of the drivers staying active long? It seems as a passenger most of the drivers I get are pretty new-- riders tell me the same thing and are surprised how long I have been with the company (even though it has only been 7 months).

What is your guess (on the X side) of percentage of full time vs part time drivers?


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## saltlaker

Why won't they add tipping to the app?


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## LEAFdriver

John Doe.....Why are Chicagoland drivers not allowed to see their PAX's rating.....but everyone else can?


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## Yuri Lygotme

Have you noticed a surge of deactivation of drivers because they were giving rides for themselves to game the guarantee?


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## john djjjoe

elelegido said:


> Nonsense.


I know, in reality its more like 75-80%, the paranoia about Lyft really inflates any perception we have about how much they do to try and shame us (we try not to recognize regular people have reasons to do so as well)



LAuberX said:


> Some good info already John djjoe, thanks for sharing.


Just glad I can finally talk about it without fear of being fired (they cant take away equity after the fact just for talking, if I was fired under certain circumstances that could bave been contrived I could have forced me to give it up, now that I'm divorced from them day to day there's nothing that I could do that would be cause for that)



chi1cabby said:


> Wow!
> So much for insuring a Safe work environment for Drivers by not suspending or outright banning Riders against whom serious complaint/s have been lodged by "Partners".
> Just as I'd always thought: Uber not only has No "Riders Code Of Conduct", but never Bans Rider Accs. short of a criminal complaint being filed by a Driver.


When reports indicate drivers may have been raped by passengers the firm will give lipservice to you the same way we are doing for passengers



buster11xx said:


> John D--
> 
> Thank you for your comments. They are interesting to see from a driver prospective.
> 
> A few questions:
> 
> Deactivations--are they common. Do you see most over ratings, or acceptance rates or customer feedback? Is there much consideration for longer term drivers?
> 
> Do you see most of the drivers staying active long? It seems as a passenger most of the drivers I get are pretty new-- riders tell me the same thing and are surprised how long I have been with the company (even though it has only been 7 months).
> 
> What is your guess (on the X side) of percentage of full time vs part time drivers?


Deactivations are becoming increasingly common, central to to the reason I left is that with accelerated onboarding we've had driver quality fall (objectively speaking) and it was just increasingly frustrating to deal with

I think the last stats I saw showed ~70-75% online for >=40 hours a week across the network but that number used to be higher (NYC market is more like 85% though to work here you need a TLC license so it's more professional in general).


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## Denouber

Uber is freaking scam they put me in new car then they drop the rates ! How I m gonna pay for it now ? I had to sell my other car !! Driving pax in brand new car for 0.90 cents a mile what a joke !! A question for you John if I quit Uber can I keep the car if I keep making payments ? ThX John nice move finding a new Job cause Uber pax are the worst !!!


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## UberHammer

john djjjoe said:


> When reports indicate drivers may have been raped by passengers the firm will give lipservice to you the same way we are doing for passengers


So I could potentially give a ride to that woman that punched Randy Shear because she didn't go so far as to rape him?


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## john djjjoe

LEAFdriver said:


> John Doe.....Why are Chicagoland drivers not allowed to see their PAX's rating.....but everyone else can?


No idea, I focused on SF/NY if you go to your base they should be able to address this for you (make sure to talk to actual Uber staff, not subcontractors they may have doing various tasks on site)



Yuri Lygotme said:


> Have you noticed a surge of deactivation of drivers because they were giving rides for themselves to game the guarantee?


Not a surge but the rate of deactivations has been increasing as onboarding has increased, we attributed this to onboarding increasingly unprofessional/lower quality of drivers who are more prone to do this. In fairness, if your mindset is that you are gaming the system you deserve to be deactivated. The system is there to try and provide more stable partner incomes not to encourage freeloading. There are DEFINITELY problems with it but the attitude you take when addressing them should be "I am doing X as per your terms and just trying to do the right thing can you help me with what seems to be a system issue" as opposed to "UBER STOP TRYING TO RIP ME OFF AND NOT PAY ME MY GUARANTEES" - I promise you the former approach will be much much more effective and could even get you what you are looking for.



Denouber said:


> Uber is freaking scam they put me in new car then they drop the rates ! How I m gonna pay for it now ? I had to sell my other car !! Driving pax in brand new car for 0.90 cents a mile what a joke !! A question for you John if I quit Uber can I keep the car if I keep making payments ? ThX John nice move finding a new Job cause Uber pax are the worst !!!


Just to be clear, I do not think Uber is great and wonderful and the savior of mankind but Uber did not put you in a car. Not knowing the particulars of your situation, you made a decision to get a car (likely facilitated and assisted by Uber to get better terms) under the incorrect assumption that Uber would support you and provide a viable income to do so. It is likely you need to increase hours driven at a minimum. The only way you're going to get help is by going to a sympathetic news agency and making it apparent that Uber misled you as a reasonable person (which is likely not hard to demonstrate).



UberHammer said:


> So I could potentially give a ride to that woman that punched Randy Shear because she didn't go so far as to rape him?


Yes. But make sure you get news coverage.



chi1cabby said:


> And I thought you'd actually give thoughtful, incisive replies to Drivers asking questions in your "Ask Me Anything" thread.
> Well thanx anyway, Mr Ex-Uber-CSR.


Not trying to be rude but I am a bit sarcastic and brief at times . In all seriousness, executive management ONLY cares about PR that reaches investors. It's not the answer you wanted but its the answer you need.


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## UberHammer

john djjjoe said:


> Yes. But make sure you get news coverage.


At ANY business in America, if you punch a worker you never step foot in the business again...

...except Uber. She probably got a free ride credit.

I'm not going hyperbole by saying this.... UBER IS ****ING INSANE TO TREAT IT'S DRIVERS WITH THIS LITTLE AMOUNT OF RESPECT!!!!!


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## Yuri Lygotme

Can a deactivated driver be re activated? If yes under which circumstances?


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## Denouber

Hey John you did not answer the question . Can keep the car if I quit uber if I keep making payments?


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## UberXinSoFlo

UberHammer said:


> So I could potentially give a ride to that woman that punched Randy Shear because she didn't go so far as to rape him?


I think he's saying that if a pax accuses a driver that uber will hide behind the "privacy policy" and won't comment on what action they took, meaning that driver will keep driving unless there is a police report. Is this what you meant 'joe'?

Also, do you have to sign any NDAs before starting as a CSR?


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## scrurbscrud

Yuri Lygotme said:


> Can a deactivated driver be re activated? If yes under which circumstances?


Only if they remove their visible face tatts.


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## chi1cabby

john djjjoe said:


> Not trying to be rude but I am a bit sarcastic and brief at times . In all seriousness, executive management ONLY cares about PR that reaches investors.


I actually just wanted an honest answer based on your experience & knowledge. And you've just given such an answer. 
Thank you!


john djjjoe said:


> It's not the answer you wanted but its the answer you need.


You are unfamiliar with me. But Josh Mohrer & TravisK know me a bit better...


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## puber

john djjjoe said:


> I'm sorry but I'm confused by this question- do you mean like non-smartphones?


Typical csr


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## scrurbscrud

john djjjoe said:


> In all seriousness, *executive management ONLY cares about PR that reaches investors.* It's not the answer you wanted but its the answer you need.


Indeed.


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## john djjjoe

Sorry for being unclear at any point. Please call me out on it if I am. Making a best effort to keep up.



UberHammer said:


> At ANY business in America, if you punch a worker you never step foot in the business again...
> 
> ...except Uber. She probably got a free ride credit.
> 
> I'm not going hyperbole by saying this.... UBER IS ****ING INSANE TO TREAT IT'S DRIVERS WITH THIS LITTLE AMOUNT OF RESPECT!!!!!


Honestly, you probably aren't far off. This is one of the few situations I wouldn't be surprised if she got banned but we don't have anything to stop her making a new account. As drivers you are a commodity, we don't need to respect you (regardless of whether this is right or wrong).



Yuri Lygotme said:


> Can a deactivated driver be re activated? If yes under which circumstances?


Policy dictates that the base can reactivate at its discretion however more than likely it's not happening. If anything was to happen to cause you to be deactivated whoever reauthorized the reactivation (base management especially) would be on the chopping block and they know that. In short, it's not worth the (personal) risk to them to reactivate you.



Denouber said:


> Hey John you did not answer the question . Can keep the car if I quit uber if I keep making payments?


If you PM me details of your situation I can give a more detailed and relevant answer but based on how this is generally done if you stop making payments you will be taken to court and/or the car will be repoed by the party providing financing. It is EXTREMELY important to the firm that we don't provide you with cars, we don't own cars, and we don't provide financing for cars (although we may help you find firms that will provide and finance cars). You are accountable to them. As far as we're concerned, you can have it crushed in a recycling yard and not take a hit but you'll be held responsible just as if you defaulted on a regular car payments (unless there are special circumstances/you purchased through an LLC, etc...)



UberXinSoFlo said:


> I think he's saying that if a pax accuses a driver that uber will hide behind the "privacy policy" and won't comment on what action they took, meaning that driver will keep driving unless there is a police report. Is this what you meant 'joe'?
> 
> Also, do you have to sign any NDAs before starting as a CSR?


Uber will never publicly comment on anything unless someone else commented on it publicly first and even then we will be extremely extremely brief. The risk/reward to the firm (potential admissions that would expose the company, being accused of defamation or inaccuracy, etc...) is skewed such that we never want to open our mouths.



puber said:


> Typical csr


I'm trying to do the opposite (I started as a first-gen CSR in SF) so please be clear and let me know if there is anything you would like me to discuss or say which I am not. I asked that question to ensure I understood its meaning and would be responding in an appropriate manner.


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## UberHammer

john djjjoe said:


> As drivers you are a commodity, we don't need to respect you (regardless of whether this is right or wrong).


Every driver, read this.

READ THIS!

READ THIS!!!!


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## ShortBusDriver

UberHammer said:


> Every driver, read this.
> 
> READ THIS!
> 
> READ THIS!!!!


Nothing earth shattering here - it's true and I've always operated with this understanding. Too many get hung up with the description of being a "Partner". Just misunderstood by many - would a better term used to describe the relationship be an "Associate" . Doesn't matter to me what word is used to describe our business relationship - Uber provides a tool - I choose to use it - or not. Simple.


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## Lidman

UberHammer said:


> Every driver, read this.
> 
> READ THIS!
> 
> READ THIS!!!!


 One of the most honest statements anyone associated (present/former) with UBER has made. Maybe they'll learn some humility if LYFT gains some ground on them. I'm not saying that LYft is the end-all b-all, but definitely an improvement over uber. Like EBay finally did, get some voice CSR, and I don't mean from a call center in India, or any other foreign country that has no minimum wage.


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## Denouber

Hey John I think you are smoking ! Can I keep the car if I keep making payment to the bank and quite Uber?


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## UberHammer

ShortBusDriver said:


> Nothing earth shattering here - it's true and I've always operated with this understanding. Too many get hung up with the description of being a "Partner". Just misunderstood by many - would a better term used to describe the relationship be an "Associate" . Doesn't matter to me what word is used to describe our business relationship - Uber provides a tool - I choose to use it - or not. Simple.


The word you are looking for is

con·tempt
kənˈtem(p)t/
_noun_

the feeling that a person or a thing is beneath consideration, worthless, or deserving scorn.
"he showed his contempt for his job by doing it very badly"
synonyms: scorn, disdain, disrespect, scornfulness, contemptuousness, derision;More

disregard for something that should be taken into account.
"this action displays an arrogant *contempt for* the wishes of the majority"
synonyms: disrespect, disregard, slighting
"he is guilty of contempt of court"
the offense of being disobedient to or disrespectful of a court of law and its officers.
plural noun: *contempts*; noun: *contempt of court*; plural noun: *contempts of court*


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## puber

john djjjoe said:


> I believe anything they say however I do pay attention to the timing and the context.
> You should believe your bank statements.
> 
> I was on a higher level/on the team that moved over from the SF office when LIC opened up so I actually worked from the office. There was a decent amount of flexibility but if I stayed at home there better have been a number of complaints that had been escalated that were dealt with that day above normal.
> 
> Most people are, we have a skeleton team to manage the subcontractors across all locations at this point. As for the NYC office the ratio of Uber employees (all management level) to subcontractors seemed skewed to say the least... I can only assume temp agencies love us.


How do i escalate it to a higher lavel support if my csr is not helpfull and hostile?


----------



## UberXinSoFlo

Everyone, let's try to keep this civil. Joe is here on his free-time trying to be helpful and give us real answers. He has nothing to gain from being here. Don't take your anger towards uber out on him. 

Thanks for the answers and info!


----------



## puber

How much training do those
CSRs get, do they have more info that i can get from uber website?
How often do thet get policy updates and do they get tested on how much of that they can memorize?


----------



## Red

Hello John,

What happened to Betty (most humane and helpful person I've met in LIC office)? Have anyone punched Nicole for her arrogance yet? Ughh.

Is there any way for a partner to get access to ratings/comments left by riders? Slim chance but I have to ask.

If I keep rejecting pings from a riders with low ratings will that be a valid point in discussion with a manager? For how long low acceptance rate could be tolerated?


----------



## MikeB

john djjjoe said:


> Ask more specific questions


Is there a specific time frame when the driver is idle to deactivate him? Month, two, six?


----------



## NightRider

MikeB said:


> Is there a specific time frame when the driver is idle to deactivate him? Month, two, six?


This is specifically addressed in the contract you agreed to back in November. You must drive one day out of every 30 consecutive days, I believe. (Contract is not in front of me at the moment.)

EDIT: Ok, it actually just says you must drive "once a month" otherwise they reserve the right to deactivate you. (been reading too many contracts these past few days..)


----------



## Red

MikeB said:


> Is there a specific time frame when the driver is idle to deactivate him? Month, two, six?


My friend told me that they are sending him a reminder emails about making one trip per month to stay active.


----------



## NightRider

... and seriously, everyone should at least set aside a couple of hours to print out and read the agreement at some point sooner rather than later.


----------



## UberCemetery

john djjjoe said:


> Do your best but be aware that the more people who activate the more people you'll be competing with who don't have the same wage standards you do (and activations are not slowing down). Uber seems more like a replacement for traditional dispatcher services now than anything else.


Thanks for the insight and words of wisdom.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

"Pax can be banned however there is nothing to stop them from simply making a new account. I've never seen someone be banned however from discussions I think if there was some sort of court case adjudicating fault we might have done it. Neither your word nor even what you tell a police officer (and thus have entered into a police report) are unbiased accounts unless an officer saw something unfolding in front of him which I never saw."

This is exactly what I thought, everyone here who thinks rating a passenger a one or two thinks it means something, it doesn't.

I will never work for Uber, I say **** the OP, **** Uber, **** the people who work at the Long Island City office too !!

All that will be left as Uber drivers will be non english speaking Pakistani drivers, I love it


----------



## Big Machine

UberHammer said:


> Every driver, read this.
> 
> READ THIS!
> 
> READ THIS!!!!


Im trying to figure out how you thought what you do with uber was anything besides a commodity. Do you not know what a commodity is? I think a lot of Uber drivers need to get their heads out of their asses and realize they are not doing God's work by driving for Uber and are just filling a roll that can be filled by any non skilled person out there.


----------



## UberHammer

Big Machine said:


> Im trying to figure out how you thought what you do with uber was anything besides a commodity. Do you not know what a commodity is? I think a lot of Uber drivers need to get their heads out of their asses and realize they are not doing God's work by driving for Uber and are just filling a roll that can be filled by any non skilled person out there.


I'm trying to figure out why you think it's the word "commodity" that's the worst part of the post.


----------



## UberCemetery

john djjjoe said:


> make sure to talk to actual Uber staff, not subcontractors


Whats the best way to do this?


----------



## Big Machine

UberHammer said:


> I'm trying to figure out why you think it's the word "commodity" that's the worst part of the post.


Yep there it is, an unskilled laborer thinks they are invaluable to a company that hires theirs at a set rate.


----------



## UberCemetery

john djjjoe said:


> The only way you're going to get help is by going to a sympathetic news agency and making it apparent that Uber misled you as a reasonable person (which is likely not hard to demonstrate).


Thanks for the good point to the driver partners that have financed thru Santander / Uber.


----------



## UberXinSoFlo

I think this is a good time to "unwatch" this thread. Good while it lasted.


----------



## UberHammer

Big Machine said:


> Yep there it is, an unskilled laborer thinks they are invaluable to a company that hires theirs at a set rate.


So you think blatant contempt by a company towards its workforce is justifiable. Got it. Good luck with that.


----------



## UberCemetery

john djjjoe said:


> executive management ONLY cares about PR that reaches investors.


Key point Thanks

Key word = Investors


----------



## ElectroFuzz

Big Machine said:


> Yep there it is, an unskilled laborer thinks they are invaluable to a company that hires theirs at a set rate.


Masochism and Stockholm Syndrome must be rampant here... 
now go and seek treatment before it's too late.


----------



## UberCemetery

john djjjoe said:


> As drivers you are a commodity, we don't need to respect you (regardless of whether this is right or wrong).


Another key point thanks


----------



## OrlUberOffDriver

@john djjjoe Thanks for your honesty and bluntness. My question: does uber retain records of Text Messages and Phone Conversations? If so, for how long? And also are either monitored real time?
Good luck on your new endeavor.


----------



## SCdave

UberHammer said:


> Every driver, read this.
> 
> READ THIS!
> 
> READ THIS!!!!


Of course, he is just saying what all of us knew anyway, right?


----------



## UberHammer

SCdave said:


> Of course, he is just saying what all of us knew anyway, right?


All of us regulars here..... which is what, maybe 0.01% of all Uber drivers?


----------



## MikeB

NightRider said:


> This is specifically addressed in the contract you agreed to back in November. You must drive one day out of every 30 consecutive days, I believe. (Contract is not in front of me at the moment.)
> 
> EDIT: Ok, it actually just says you must drive "once a month" otherwise they reserve the right to deactivate you. (been reading too many contracts these past few days..)


Reserves the right. I wonder if they bother to notify you of their exercise of this right?
I have not been driving for a month and half, but never received any deactivation notice.
Just regular emails, promos, today was invited to rsvp for next week h&r tax seminar.


----------



## ElectroFuzz

MikeB said:


> Reserves the right. I wonder if they bother to notify you of their exercise of this right?
> I have not been driving for a month and half, but never received any deactivation notice.
> Just regular emails, promos, today was invited to rsvp for next week h&r tax seminar.


Similar situation was reported by others.
Apparently it's not an automated process but eventually a real human will
get the task to clear up the backup log.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

john djjjoe said:


> Deactivations are becoming increasingly common, central to to the reason I left is that with accelerated onboarding we've had driver quality fall (objectively speaking) and it was just increasingly frustrating to deal with


 Low driver quality to equal low quality uber clientele. 
Water seeks it's own level.


----------



## Yuri Lygotme

Why does the app ask to access the microphone?


----------



## PT Go

John,

Thanks for taking the time to come on here and share your info. The question I have is there have been several attempts to try to get a certain situation resolved. However it tends to linger for a day or so and then someone else will come back with a fair (but skirting the issue) response. The last time I went back to try and get some clarity, I was completely ignored. I am always polite and never threaten and attempt to treat it as a help me to understand better so I can work through this.
If no one responds, how is the best way to address this and get what I feel is a respectful and somewhat intelligent answer.


----------



## brianwithers

I am a new driver in PA, we are required by PA law to inform our personal insurance carriers, that we are driving for Uber. Uber will not answer me as to the legalities of this and will I be dropped by my insurance?


----------



## Uber-Doober

john djjjoe said:


> I'm sorry but I'm confused by this question- do you mean like non-smartphones?


^^^
No, he meant actually being able to talk to something with a pulse on the other end.


----------



## Txchick

UberHammer said:


> So I could potentially give a ride to that woman that punched Randy Shear because she didn't go so far as to rape him?


Ha ha! Wonder if he is still crying.


----------



## Txchick

E


UberHammer said:


> Every driver, read this.
> 
> READ THIS!
> 
> READ THIS!!!!


exactly why I don't drive for Uber!! Not a partner but a abuser.


----------



## Andy1234

Do you think Uber will ever change the rating system to require more detailed feedback when a passenger rates below 5 stars? Even if it was a multiple choice feedback like Lyft provides it would be extremely helpful. I hate it when I get a bad week of ratings and none of the passengers take a few seconds to say why!


----------



## Uber-Doober

UberXinSoFlo said:


> Everyone, let's try to keep this civil. Joe is here on his free-time trying to be helpful and give us real answers.


Yeah, this is a family oriented forum.


----------



## Uber-Doober

ElectroFuzz said:


> Masochism and Stockholm Syndrome must be rampant here...
> now go and seek treatment before it's too late.


^^^
Hah!


----------



## Uber-Doober

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> Low driver quality to equal low quality uber clientele.
> Water seeks it's own level.


^^^
Puts a whole new meaning to Archimides' Screw.


----------



## Uber-Doober

Hey, John...
In the movie, Dracula... when the driver of the carriage stopped way down from the hill from the castle and threw out the passenger and his luggage, was that an Uber carriage? 
If it was, it definitely had to be Uber Black or SUV (Smarmy Uber Vampire)


----------



## fork2323

Denouber said:


> Hey John I think you are smoking ! Can I keep the car if I keep making payment to the bank and quite Uber?


yes


----------



## fork2323

please answer the question about if uber keeps track of texts sent or records video or audio from the uber issued iPhone or from passenger to driver.. several people seem to think that if they text other drivers from the passenger ap to boycott driving or join a protest that it will get back to uber and they could get deactivated. .


----------



## Uber-Doober

fork2323 said:


> please answer the question about if uber keeps track of texts sent or records video or audio from the uber issued iPhone or from passenger to driver.. several people seem to think that if they text other drivers from the passenger ap to boycott driving or join a protest that it will get back to uber and they could get deactivated. .


^^^
Well.... how do I put this? 
I would never use their phone to text or call, or even my own phone withing hearing distance of the said phone. 
I know it doesn't answer your question, but it just makes good sense.


----------



## elelegido

john djjjoe said:


> the paranoia about Lyft really inflates any perception we have about how much they do to try and shame us


Oh, Uber has demonstrated time and again that it needs no help with shaming itself, least of all from Lyft. Misogynistic comments, on-the-record vows to delve into the lives of journalists, Travis himself and the image he generates for his company, embarrassing internal emails which the company failed to have suppressed in court regarding the treatment of drivers etc etc.

They have this more than covered.


----------



## AintWorthIt

What is the average turnover for drivers? How long do they last?


----------



## Raider

Does your job require only pressing Control + C and then Control + V?


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Elvis (John Doe) has left the building.


----------



## Red

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> Elvis (John Doe) has left the building.


It could've been Nicole after all. Oops.


----------



## bilyvh

Is Nicole that blonde with the glasses?


----------



## Uber-Doober

bilyvh said:


> Is Nicole that blonde with the glasses?


^^^
OJ's wife.


----------



## cybertec69

Denouber said:


> Hey John I think you are smoking ! Can I keep the car if I keep making payment to the bank and quite Uber?


Why are you asking this question to a former CSR, he had nothing to do with financing, I suggest you ask the people you are making the car payments to.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

john djjjoe said:


> A friend who works on social media coverage.
> Not officially.


Could you please elaborate on your "not officially" response? Do they monitor it or not?


----------



## Red

bilyvh said:


> Is Nicole that blonde with the glasses?


No, brunette. Has been there from the beginning, feel free to find her whenever you'd feel like to be spit on.


----------



## Red

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Could you please elaborate on your "not officially" response? Do they monitor it or not?


Sounds like yes, but they won't admit it.


----------



## cybertec69

All you guys have been asking the same questions and getting the same answers I have posted here numerous times, you are all independent contractors, no one is forcing you to go drive with uber, lyft, sidecar, or any other FHV base, uber is only concerned with its returns to its investors, for the many of you that never owned or ran a business, this is how it works in the real world.
You pay uber or any other FHV base a set percentage base fee to conduct your business. At the end of the day it was your choice and yours alone.
And the CSR did not tell me anything here that I did not already know.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

john djjjoe said:


> Not trying to be rude but I am a bit sarcastic and brief at times .


I have to say, I'm only on page 3, and already a few of your comments do come across as rude, arrogant and inconsiderate -- the exact "brand" of Uber responses we've all come to expect. Whether you quit or not, you're still Ubering on.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

john djjjoe said:


> As drivers you are a commodity, we don't need to respect you (regardless of whether this is right or wr


And what makes a cut-and-paste monkey so valuable? Are you a god because you sit behind a computer and get to click no? This is the exact kind of arrogance that has resulted in pissed off drivers, even before rate cuts.

I hope Uber crashes and burns to a pile of simmering rubble and then gets tossed into the bottom of the ocean. There's not a shred of humanity in that company's corporate culture.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

cybertec69 said:


> All you guys have been asking the same questions and getting the same answers I have posted here numerous times, you are all independent contractors, no one is forcing you to go drive with uber, lyft, sidecar, or any other FHV base, uber is only concerned with its returns to its investors, for the many of you that never owned or ran a business, this is how it works in the real world.
> You pay uber or any other FHV base a set percentage base fee to conduct your business. At the end of the day it was your choice and yours alone.
> And the CSR did not tell me anything here that I did not know already.


Yeah, but everyone who has owned a business or dealt with customers, clients, tenants face-to-face has had to respond human to human, not machine to machine. You know? There's a big difference between copying and pasting a bullshit response and having to speak to a crying person on the damn phone. It isn't just business. There are humans involved in every level of business, yet uber has found a way to suck them dry of their humanity.


----------



## Raider

JaxBeachDriver said:


> And what makes a cut-and-paste monkey so valuable? Are you a god because you sit behind a computer and get to click no? This is the exact kind of arrogance that has resulted in pissed off drivers, even before rate cuts.
> 
> I hope Uber crashes and burns to a pile of simmering rubble and then gets tossed into the bottom of the ocean. There's not a shred of humanity in that company's corporate culture.


I think he's trying to say that's what Uber makes him think of us, doesn't necessarily means he's that way...anywho, what has been asked and answered in this thread shouldn't surprise anyone...after we found how shady their business model is you use common sense to answer any questions you might have for this company.


----------



## UberBlackDriverLA

Welcome and thanks for answering questions on this forum!

When do you predict Uber will switch driverless cars?

Do you think Uber will be able to keep the employee vs. IC lawsuit in appeals court long enough to get driverless cars on the road?


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

Raider said:


> I think he's trying to say that's what Uber makes him think of us, doesn't necessarily means he's that way


Earlier in the thread, he said he never really sent anything that he disagreed with. And from what I've perceived in his responses, it seems to be in line with his worldviews.


----------



## Uber Driver 007

How was Josh Mohrer as a boss? Does he 'care' about his drivers?


----------



## Bust A Kaep

john djjjoe said:


> Pax can be banned however there is nothing to stop them from simply making a new account. I've never seen someone be banned however from discussions I think if there was some sort of court case adjudicating fault we might have done it. Neither your word nor even what you tell a police officer (and thus have entered into a police report) are unbiased accounts unless an officer saw something unfolding in front of him which I never saw.
> 
> There is no automated process that I know of however it is technically possible for it to be done manually (although I wouldn't deny I've seen some repeated/absurd complaints from 5* riders which lead me to think the programmers might have put some sort of easter egg into our system that does it automatically at some point  however I would add I have NEVER seen or heard of this being done manually
> 
> Seriously though- 5* riders tend to be new, it is extremely unlikely
> 
> With the amount of money being raised right now, nobody cares. The business model is not about matching you with passengers (but that is supposed to become profitable for the firm long term within about a year) it goes far beyond that.


The business model is one of the oldest tricks in the books. Typical classical pyramid scheme.... Hype it up, make a bunch of promises and constantly stay hiring. Their "business model" is the hire 7 drivers for every 5 that realize their losing money and quit. If they can keep enough drivers on road before they realize their losing money while constantly hiring new drivers their set. You do not profit with UBER. Maybe short term "profits" but once insurance, maintenance, car payments, all start piling up people realize they've been played and quit.


----------



## Uber SUCKS for drivers!

john djjjoe said:


> Pax can be banned however there is nothing to stop them from simply making a new account. I've never seen someone be banned however from discussions I think if there was some sort of court case adjudicating fault we might have done it. Neither your word nor even what you tell a police officer (and thus have entered into a police report) are unbiased accounts unless an officer saw something unfolding in front of him which I never saw.
> 
> There is no automated process that I know of however it is technically possible for it to be done manually (although I wouldn't deny I've seen some repeated/absurd complaints from 5* riders which lead me to think the programmers might have put some sort of easter egg into our system that does it automatically at some point  however I would add I have NEVER seen or heard of this being done manually
> 
> Seriously though- 5* riders tend to be new, it is extremely unlikely
> 
> With the amount of money being raised right now, nobody cares. The business model is not about matching you with passengers (but that is supposed to become profitable for the firm long term within about a year) it goes far beyond that.





john djjjoe said:


> Pax can be banned however there is nothing to stop them from simply making a new account. I've never seen someone be banned however from discussions I think if there was some sort of court case adjudicating fault we might have done it. Neither your word nor even what you tell a police officer (and thus have entered into a police report) are unbiased accounts unless an officer saw something unfolding in front of him which I never saw.
> 
> There is no automated process that I know of however it is technically possible for it to be done manually (although I wouldn't deny I've seen some repeated/absurd complaints from 5* riders which lead me to think the programmers might have put some sort of easter egg into our system that does it automatically at some point  however I would add I have NEVER seen or heard of this being done manually
> 
> Seriously though- 5* riders tend to be new, it is extremely unlikely
> 
> With the amount of money being raised right now, nobody cares. The business model is not about matching you with passengers (but that is supposed to become profitable for the firm long term within about a year) it goes far beyond that.


u didnt really answer my question, but i think u said yes, uber knows that all the good loyal drivers that built this ****ing company r all losing $, & doesnt give a shit, & knows theres a million more dummies right behind us? NICE TRAVIS!


----------



## Uber-Doober

Bust A Kaep said:


> The business model is one of the oldest tricks in the books. Typical classical pyramid scheme.... Hype it up, make a bunch of promises and constantly stay hiring. Their "business model" is the hire 7 drivers for every 5 that realize their losing money and quit. If they can keep enough drivers on road before they realize their losing money while constantly hiring new drivers their set. You do not profit with UBER. Maybe short term "profits" but once insurance, maintenance, car payments, all start piling up people realize they've been played and quit.


^^^
But just like with any other pyramid scheme, it reaches a tipping point where the 'word gets around' withing a certain population, and by that I mean the population of people that might be in the market to do something like Uber and not necessarily, doctors, plumbers, and/or others employed consistently and not anybody looking for another source of income. 
Wherever people gather, people talk.... and if there are enough people around who have been stung, then they will be looking around for another source of income instead of driving the wheels off of their own car to line the pocket of somebody who when figuring a 'per mile' figure to pay, also use the figure that the IRS uses and adds to that to come out with a figure. 
But if somebody isn't in the bracket to itemize, that dough that they pay to the tax preparer is blown out the window.


----------



## john djjjoe

This has blown up. Going to answer what I can now.



JaxBeachDriver said:


> Yeah, but everyone who has owned a business or dealt with customers, clients, tenants face-to-face has had to respond human to human, not machine to machine. You know? There's a big difference between copying and pasting a bullshit response and having to speak to a crying person on the damn phone. It isn't just business. There are humans involved in every level of business, yet uber has found a way to suck them dry of their humanity.


By not giving you a phone number. I may have it. You'll never find it.



Raider said:


> I think he's trying to say that's what Uber makes him think of us, doesn't necessarily means he's that way...anywho, what has been asked and answered in this thread shouldn't surprise anyone...after we found how shady their business model is you use common sense to answer any questions you might have for this company.


You are correct in your assumption. I am telling you what they think.



UberBlackDriverLA said:


> Welcome and thanks for answering questions on this forum!
> 
> When do you predict Uber will switch driverless cars?
> 
> Do you think Uber will be able to keep the employee vs. IC lawsuit in appeals court long enough to get driverless cars on the road?


You are welcome.

Tuesday.



JaxBeachDriver said:


> Earlier in the thread, he said he never really sent anything that he disagreed with. And from what I've perceived in his responses, it seems to be in line with his worldviews.


You are an idiot.



Uber Driver 007 said:


> How was Josh Mohrer as a boss? Does he 'care' about his drivers?


My mommy told me if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.



Bust A Kaep said:


> The business model is one of the oldest tricks in the books. Typical classical pyramid scheme.... Hype it up, make a bunch of promises and constantly stay hiring. Their "business model" is the hire 7 drivers for every 5 that realize their losing money and quit. If they can keep enough drivers on road before they realize their losing money while constantly hiring new drivers their set. You do not profit with UBER. Maybe short term "profits" but once insurance, maintenance, car payments, all start piling up people realize they've been played and quit.


You don't seem to understand what differentiates a pyramid scheme from other types of asset misappropriation.


----------



## Uber-Doober

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> u didnt really answer my question, but i think u said yes, uber knows that all the good loyal drivers that built this ****ing company r all losing $, & doesnt give a shit, & knows theres a million more dummies right behind us? NICE TRAVIS!


^^^
You're right. 
And as far as what John said about the quality of the drivers follows true to form but could mean just about anything like coming down to hiring complete illiterates or morons. 
There's one big thing, and I think that's a real biggie, and that's that originally drivers signed up or became 'Partners' at a given rate. 
And then the rug was pulled out from under them with compensation that fell 60% after the partner had already made an investment and a commitment. 
So now, everything on the debit side of the ledger has doubled, and everything on the asset side of the ledger has reduced by half with wear and tear/maintenance increasing with the increased driving. 
Then of course you have Uber's tacit non-tipping policy and fares being cheaper than a bus.


----------



## frndthDuvel

Thanks again for your time here answering all these questions.

is it feasible to think that once investors own UBER that they will not want to raise rates?

Do you still UBER?


----------



## john djjjoe

Uber-Doober said:


> Hey, John...
> In the movie, Dracula... when the driver of the carriage stopped way down from the hill from the castle and threw out the passenger and his luggage, was that an Uber carriage?
> If it was, it definitely had to be Uber Black or SUV (Smarmy Uber Vampire)


It was a Lyft



fork2323 said:


> please answer the question about if uber keeps track of texts sent or records video or audio from the uber issued iPhone or from passenger to driver.. several people seem to think that if they text other drivers from the passenger ap to boycott driving or join a protest that it will get back to uber and they could get deactivated. .


I have never seen a systematic operation to monitor those messages in place. That said, you are sending messages through an Uber system where Uber redirects calls/messages from your real numbers to their fake ones. Think about it.



Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Well.... how do I put this?
> I would never use their phone to text or call, or even my own phone withing hearing distance of the said phone.
> I know it doesn't answer your question, but it just makes good sense.


You're a bit paranoid. Not worth it to play big brother, there isn't enough money in it.



elelegido said:


> Oh, Uber has demonstrated time and again that it needs no help with shaming itself, least of all from Lyft. Misogynistic comments, on-the-record vows to delve into the lives of journalists, Travis himself and the image he generates for his company, embarrassing internal emails which the company failed to have suppressed in court regarding the treatment of drivers etc etc.
> 
> They have this more than covered.


^He gets it



AintWorthIt said:


> What is the average turnover for drivers? How long do they last?


Highest deactivations are in the first and third months. Turnover has been increasing particularly in those timeframes.



Raider said:


> Does your job require only pressing Control + C and then Control + V?


I also adjust the volume on my computer from time to time. That involves a knob.



cybertec69 said:


> Why are you asking this question to a former CSR, he had nothing to do with financing, I suggest you ask the people you are making the car payments to.


I was a CSR at first, continued doing that and also took on business development as the NY operation grew.



Red said:


> No, brunette. Has been there from the beginning, feel free to find her whenever you'd feel like to be spit on.


Cute office manager



cybertec69 said:


> All you guys have been asking the same questions and getting the same answers I have posted here numerous times, you are all independent contractors, no one is forcing you to go drive with uber, lyft, sidecar, or any other FHV base, uber is only concerned with its returns to its investors, for the many of you that never owned or ran a business, this is how it works in the real world.
> You pay uber or any other FHV base a set percentage base fee to conduct your business. At the end of the day it was your choice and yours alone.
> And the CSR did not tell me anything here that I did not know already.


^He gets it



JaxBeachDriver said:


> I have to say, I'm only on page 3, and already a few of your comments do come across as rude, arrogant and inconsiderate -- the exact "brand" of Uber responses we've all come to expect. Whether you quit or not, you're still Ubering on.


Thank you for your opinion. If it makes you happy I will try to sugarcoat things for you, you special awesome snowflake.



JaxBeachDriver said:


> And what makes a cut-and-paste monkey so valuable? Are you a god because you sit behind a computer and get to click no? This is the exact kind of arrogance that has resulted in pissed off drivers, even before rate cuts.
> 
> I hope Uber crashes and burns to a pile of simmering rubble and then gets tossed into the bottom of the ocean. There's not a shred of humanity in that company's corporate culture.


At times I also click on the start button to get to internet explorer. Why are you even in this thread? Go back to your cave.


----------



## Uber-Doober

john djjjoe said:


> You don't seem to understand what differentiates a pyramid scheme from other types of asset misappropriation.


^^^
A rose by any other name....


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

john djjjoe said:


> Highest deactivations are in the first and third months. Turnover has been increasing particularly in those timeframes.


----------



## john djjjoe

UberCemetery said:


> Thanks for the good point to the driver partners that have financed thru Santander / Uber.


From the firm (and the banks') perspective, Uber provides financing as to the same extent that NBC sells you Bud Light during the super bowl



UberXinSoFlo said:


> I think this is a good time to "unwatch" this thread. Good while it lasted.


There was a good time to "watch" it?



UberHammer said:


> So you think blatant contempt by a company towards its workforce is justifiable. Got it. Good luck with that.


It's more an acknowledgement of reality I think, not a judgement that the company is right



OrlUberOffDriver said:


> @john djjjoe Thanks for your honesty and bluntness. My question: does uber retain records of Text Messages and Phone Conversations? If so, for how long? And also are either monitored real time?
> Good luck on your new endeavor.


Retention is only required until the messages are confirmed delivered AFAIK however it is something that could definitely be backed up indefinitely



MikeB said:


> Reserves the right. I wonder if they bother to notify you of their exercise of this right?
> I have not been driving for a month and half, but never received any deactivation notice.
> Just regular emails, promos, today was invited to rsvp for next week h&r tax seminar.


Notification is not required



Yuri Lygotme said:


> Why does the app ask to access the microphone?


New functionality may require it



PT Go said:


> John,
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to come on here and share your info. The question I have is there have been several attempts to try to get a certain situation resolved. However it tends to linger for a day or so and then someone else will come back with a fair (but skirting the issue) response. The last time I went back to try and get some clarity, I was completely ignored. I am always polite and never threaten and attempt to treat it as a help me to understand better so I can work through this.
> If no one responds, how is the best way to address this and get what I feel is a respectful and somewhat intelligent answer.


Go to your base and get an Uber employee's attention. If that doesn't work, serve the base with a small claims lawsuit. Even if it's just for something absurd. Only thing I've ever seen someone do that got attention immediately.



brianwithers said:


> I am a new driver in PA, we are required by PA law to inform our personal insurance carriers, that we are driving for Uber. Uber will not answer me as to the legalities of this and will I be dropped by my insurance?


You need to ask your insurance carrier. Catch-22.



Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> No, he meant actually being able to talk to something with a pulse on the other end.


Not allowed. Would cost the company too much and could result in your problems actually being solved at the firm's expense.



Txchick said:


> Ha ha! Wonder if he is still crying.


Only his pride.



Andy1234 said:


> Do you think Uber will ever change the rating system to require more detailed feedback when a passenger rates below 5 stars? Even if it was a multiple choice feedback like Lyft provides it would be extremely helpful. I hate it when I get a bad week of ratings and none of the passengers take a few seconds to say why!


Interesting idea but unlikely, the rating system is intended to be as unobtrusive as possible. Part of the reason results are so random already is (apparently) many people just hit a random number of stars to get the screen to go away.


----------



## Uber-Doober

john djjjoe said:


> You're a bit paranoid. Not worth it to play big brother, there isn't enough money in it.


^^^
Sometimes paranoids are right.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Sometimes paranoids are right.


Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean people aren't out to get you


----------



## Uber-Doober

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean people aren't out to get you


^^^
That's why I've had a CCW for ten years now.


----------



## john djjjoe

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Sometimes paranoids are right.





Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean people aren't out to get you


If spying on you made money I'm sure Uber would do it, unfortunately the FBI has its own ways of turning on your phone mic and doesn't need to pay us to do it (it follows that we don't because, well, not worth it).

I promise you that if big data/etc... thought the Uber app was the only way to get an audio track to all your lives and was willing to pay for it that we would do it. But for now at least there are better alternatives. Uber is not yet Omnicorp.


----------



## uber_sea

How much does CSR get paid? What's the acceptable response per hour? What are the metrics for CSRs?


----------



## Denouber

You guys keep complaining


JaxBeachDriver said:


> Earlier in the thread, he said he never really sent anything that he disagreed with. And from what I've perceived in his responses, it seems to be in line with his worldviews.


This John sound


john djjjoe said:


> From the firm (and the banks') perspective, Uber provides financing as to the same extent that NBC sells you Bud Light during the super bowl
> 
> There was a good time to "watch" it?
> 
> It's more an acknowledgement of reality I think, not a judgement that the company is right
> 
> Retention is only required until the messages are confirmed delivered AFAIK however it is something that could definitely be backed up indefinitely
> 
> Notification is not required
> 
> New functionality may require it
> 
> Go to your base and get an Uber employee's attention. If that doesn't work, serve the base with a small claims lawsuit. Even if it's just for something absurd. Only thing I've ever seen someone do that got attention immediately.
> 
> You need to ask your insurance carrier. Catch-22.
> 
> Not allowed. Would cost the company too much and could result in your problems actually being solved at the firm's expense.
> 
> Only his pride.
> 
> Interesting idea but unlikely, the rating system is intended to be as unobtrusive as possible. Part of the reason results are so random already is (apparently) many people just hit a random number of stars to get the screen to go away.


Hey John I think you are smoking ! Can I keep the car if I keep making payment to the bank and quite Uber?

Yesterday at 4:45 PMEditDele


john djjjoe said:


> If spying on you made money I'm sure Uber would do it, unfortunately the FBI has its own ways of turning on your phone mic and doesn't need to pay us to do it (it follows that we don't because, well, not worth it).
> 
> I promise you that if big data/etc... thought the Uber app was the only way to get an audio track to all your lives and was willing to pay for it that we would do it. But for now at least there are better alternatives. Uber is not yet Omnicorp.


Hey John I think you are smoking ! Can I keep the car if I keep making payment to the bank and quite Uber?


----------



## frndthDuvel

Denouber said:


> You guys keep complaining
> 
> This John sound
> 
> Hey John I think you are smoking ! Can I keep the car if I keep making payment to the bank and quite Uber?
> 
> Yesterday at 4:45 PMEditDele
> 
> Hey John I think you are smoking ! Can I keep the car if I keep making payment to the bank and quite Uber?


Geez Dude, what the heck are you smoking? How many times does this have to be asked and answered. Read your purchase contract. Hard to think if you are making payments they are going to be able to take the car. If you don't get that, quit UBER keep making payments and see what happens.


----------



## Uber-Doober

This was asked before on another thread but was never answered, but just out of curiosity, if somebody gets a Santander lease for a vehicle that's like 45 to 50K and after two months his rating drops to a 4, does Uber look any differently at that guy before kicking him as opposed to someone who just uses his own vehicle?


----------



## Denouber

John just kidding bro. Thx for your time.


----------



## cybertec69

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Yeah, but everyone who has owned a business or dealt with customers, clients, tenants face-to-face has had to respond human to human, not machine to machine. You know? There's a big difference between copying and pasting a bullshit response and having to speak to a crying person on the damn phone. It isn't just business. There are humans involved in every level of business, yet uber has found a way to suck them dry of their humanity.


You must be new with uber or pretty much any huge Corp nowadays, it's all about the bottom line, get used to business in the 21st century.


----------



## Just_in

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> "Pax can be banned however there is nothing to stop them from simply making a new account. I've never seen someone be banned however from discussions I think if there was some sort of court case adjudicating fault we might have done it. Neither your word nor even what you tell a police officer (and thus have entered into a police report) are unbiased accounts unless an officer saw something unfolding in front of him which I never saw."
> 
> This is exactly what I thought, everyone here who thinks rating a passenger a one or two thinks it means something, it doesn't.
> 
> I will never work for Uber, I say **** the OP, **** Uber, **** the people who work at the Long Island City office too !!
> 
> All that will be left as Uber drivers will be non english speaking Pakistani drivers, I love it


Awesome !


----------



## Just_in

john djjjoe said:


> Deactivations are becoming increasingly common, central to to the reason I left is that with accelerated onboarding we've had driver quality fall (objectively speaking) and it was just increasingly frustrating to deal with





john djjjoe said:


> Not a surge but the rate of deactivations has been increasing as onboarding has increased, we attributed this to onboarding increasingly unprofessional/lower quality of drivers who are more prone to do this.


 It takes years to become a professional driver. .


----------



## Actionjax

Hi John, we all know attrition with the drivers are a big issue. What have they been like as an employer? How well do they treat employees that are inside the circle. Do they have the same expendable nature inside.


----------



## Liquid

What a great read. Thanks much for the info. This John Doe needs a bit more respect for his forthright approach to answering questions. I find it odd that people are dumping on him. Jax, the hell man, mind your manners. You had an old car, somehow were able to drive, they caught the error and you were deactivated.


----------



## Actionjax

Liquid said:


> What a great read. Thanks much for the info. This John Doe needs a bit more respect for his forthright approach to answering questions. I find it odd that people are dumping on him. Jax, the hell man, mind your manners. You had an old car, somehow were able to drive, they caught the error and you were deactivated.


That would be UberJax with the old car and I didn't see him in here.


----------



## thehappytypist

Hello! I'm not sure if you know but I figured I'd take a stab at it since it's my (and everyone else's) biggest worry right now.

What are the actual plans for Manila? I can't shake the feeling that they're blowing smoke in regards to that particular subject.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

thehappytypist said:


> Hello! I'm not sure if you know but I figured I'd take a stab at it since it's my (and everyone else's) biggest worry right now.
> 
> What are the actual plans for Manila? I can't shake the feeling that they're blowing smoke in regards to that particular subject.


The call centers in the Philippines have the dumbest people imaginable.

http://news.yahoo.com/3-foreigners-shot-central-philippines-1-german-dead-072329372.html


----------



## TidyVet

Big Machine said:


> Im trying to figure out how you thought what you do with uber was anything besides a commodity. Do you not know what a commodity is? I think a lot of Uber drivers need to get their heads out of their asses and realize they are not doing God's work by driving for Uber and are just filling a roll that can be filled by any non skilled person out there.


YES! The world does not owe you anything, totally agree.

Soon, they will be whining about how they want $15/hour like the McDonald employees.


----------



## TidyVet

john djjjoe said:


> If spying on you made money I'm sure Uber would do it, unfortunately the FBI has its own ways of turning on your phone mic and doesn't need to pay us to do it (it follows that we don't because, well, not worth it).
> 
> I promise you that if big data/etc... thought the Uber app was the only way to get an audio track to all your lives and was willing to pay for it that we would do it. But for now at least there are better alternatives. Uber is not yet Omnicorp.


John, thanks for your help, it is refreshing to hear from someone that realizes that Uber is a business that uses tools to accomplish it's goals. In any business, people are the tools, and if they break you throw them away.

Anyway, previously my Rider No-Show cancellation fees were processed automatically. Click "Arrived", wait 5 minutes, click "Cancel Rider No-Show", get paid $10 cancellation fee (in Boston).

Starting yesterday, cancellation fees no longer go through automatically. I have been using the "Report a Serious Rider Concern" through the Uber IPhone (for convenience, the trip identifier is crazy long) and have to wait for support to pick it up and adjust the fare.

Why would this be happening?

Obviously no direct response from customer support.


----------



## BlkGeep

john djjjoe said:


> Without saying anything that would give away what stats I was privy to, I would be surprised if there wasn't one soon. There's enough turnover that I'm not the only one who left last week (and I'm not 31 years old for the record ) but I don't want to kill my references.
> 
> Skynet is left to its own devices but occasionally the programmers will push updates to the system and it seems to happen more or less frequently.
> 
> Short answer is yes
> Long answer is no we don't have a big red button under a locked plastic cover we can press to turn on surge (and I anticipate this is what you were asking about )
> 
> Cloudy with a chance of meatballs
> 
> Probably not. You seem a bit immature.


Why can't you share stats you were privy to?


----------



## Lidman

Big Machine said:


> Im trying to figure out how you thought what you do with uber was anything besides a commodity. Do you not know what a commodity is? I think a lot of Uber drivers need to get their heads out of their asses and realize they are not doing God's work by driving for Uber and are just filling a roll that can be filled by any non skilled person out there.


 This is Travis' cousin.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

cybertec69 said:


> You must be new with uber or pretty much any huge Corp nowadays, it's all about the bottom line, get used to business in the 21st century.


I disagree.

Look at Hobby Lobby and Chik-fil-A and how many customers they've alienated and lost with their corporate policies. It's not ALL about the bottom line in every business. Businesses have to consider safety and liability, laws and regulations. Some businesses are also concerned with corporate social responsibility. Some are interested in environmental issues. Also, consider Costco and how it treats employees.

If it was all about the bottom line in every business, every business would operate as Uber does. All employees would be replaced with ICs whenever possible. No benefits would be provided, ever. The wizard would remain behind the curtain, and no customer or "partner" would be able to speak with the company directly. I won't go on and on.

I don't think it's a stretch to point out that it's a sad day in our society when we accept that the people (or corporations as people) in power are held to different standards of humanity than anyone else.

Uber is a newer company, fighting lawsuits left, right and center. It's also dealing with bad press left, right and center. I guess they don't think all this negative publicity and seedy reputation is affecting its bottom line, but it will catch up to them eventually, I hope.


----------



## Courageous

Hi John Djjj....thank you for your time and insight. My question is, why won't Uber allow the Uber driver in south Florida to retain Commercial insurance policy? 

I hope your response is thought through as I've had reps say one thing ("it is fine"), then be rejected by higher management.

Aside from the obvious "appearance" of being legitimate commercial driver for the sake of any litigation, why would they refuse an Uber driver that is covered commercially? 

Here in South Florida, we only have the UberX, UberXL and UberSelect.


----------



## LA Cabbie

john djjjoe said:


> With the amount of money being raised right now, nobody cares. The business model is not about matching you with passengers (but that is supposed to become profitable for the firm long term within about a year) it goes far beyond that.


With the amount of personal data uber has mined about passengers they can do much more profitable ventures. They know where you come from and where you go. Imagine uber running a groupon like service where they bombard you with fast food ads because you went to Wendy's. Or even more elaborate a dating service that hooks you up with others based on common interests.

This never was about making money off of you drivers.


----------



## Courageous

JaxBeachDriver said:


> If it was all about the bottom line in every business, every business would operate as Uber does. All employees would be replaced with ICs whenever possible. No benefits would be provided, ever. The wizard would remain behind the curtain, and no customer or "partner" would be able to speak with the company directly. I won't go on and on.


Put simply; If it doesn't work...they will be out of business...if it works, they will remain. This is the FREEDOM that makes our country unique, GREAT and sought after.

We have the Freedom to choose our ventures...PERIOD.


----------



## Yuri Lygotme

Since CSRs work from home, why aren't those jobs available nationwide?


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

Courageous said:


> Put simply; If it doesn't work...they will be out of business...if it works, they will remain. This is the FREEDOM that makes our country unique, GREAT and sought after.
> 
> We have the Freedom to choose our ventures...PERIOD.


Maybe explore the difference between freedom and liberty.

Also, I have the "freedom" to post on here and share how unethical I perceive that company to be.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Courageous said:


> Put simply; If it doesn't work...they will be out of business...if it works, they will remain. This is the FREEDOM that makes our country unique, GREAT and sought after.
> 
> We have the Freedom to choose our ventures...PERIOD.


Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose....


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose....


Bobby thumbed a Prius down, just before it rained
We Ubered all the way to New Orleans


----------



## driveLA

Are drivers really deactivated for cancelled trip and acceptance percentage ?

Do drivers get a certain amount of warnings?

Also it seems unfair that we sometimes receive pings from way too far away, outside of surge area, inaccurate ETA, etc. is any of this stuff taken into consideration if expressed when we respond to warnings about acceptance/cancellation issues?


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Bobby thumbed a Prius down, just before it rained
> We Ubered all the way to New Orleans


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


>


IFL her.


----------



## UberTaxPro

john djjjoe said:


> Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


Do CSR's use their real names when emailing with uber drivers? why does it take so long to get a response with Uber? Are CSR's working 24/7 or only normal business hours? Did you ever have to "speak" with an uber driver for any reason?


----------



## Actionjax

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Look at Hobby Lobby and Chik-fil-A and how many customers they've alienated and lost with their corporate policies. It's not ALL about the bottom line in every business. Businesses have to consider safety and liability, laws and regulations. Some businesses are also concerned with corporate social responsibility. Some are interested in environmental issues. Also, consider Costco and how it treats employees.
> 
> If it was all about the bottom line in every business, every business would operate as Uber does. All employees would be replaced with ICs whenever possible. No benefits would be provided, ever. The wizard would remain behind the curtain, and no customer or "partner" would be able to speak with the company directly. I won't go on and on.
> 
> I don't think it's a stretch to point out that it's a sad day in our society when we accept that the people (or corporations as people) in power are held to different standards of humanity than anyone else.
> 
> Uber is a newer company, fighting lawsuits left, right and center. It's also dealing with bad press left, right and center. I guess they don't think all this negative publicity and seedy reputation is affecting its bottom line, but it will catch up to them eventually, I hope.


Sorry it is all about the bottom line and providing shareholder value.

The reason why some businesses treat employees well is it has shown that employee retention for a skilled workforce has value. For example if the best workers move to a competitor that competitor will gain the advantage. So a business would need to offer quality working conditions to retain quality people.

Uber has no competition in this space where are you going to go as an unskilled worker. (By unskilled I mean you have no professional designation like a municipal taxi licence or limo licence) They have the advantage in the market. There is no reason for them to change that. You have no mass voice to bring about that change. And people are lined up to do this.

Nothing says Uber will be like this forever but unless there is a force that produces change you wont see it on its own.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

Actionjax said:


> Sorry it is all about the bottom line and providing shareholder value.
> 
> The reason why some businesses treat employees well is it has shown that employee retention for a skilled workforce has value. For example if the best workers move to a competitor that competitor will gain the advantage. So a business would need to offer quality working conditions to retain quality people.
> 
> Uber has no competition in this space where are you going to go as an unskilled worker. (By unskilled I mean you have no professional designation like a municipal taxi licence or limo licence) They have the advantage in the market. There is no reason for them to change that. You have no mass voice to bring about that change. And people are lined up to do this.
> 
> Nothing says Uber will be like this forever but unless there is a force that produces change you wont see it on its own.


I'm sorry, did you not catch the Costco reference? By your definition, Costco is not a skilled workforce, yet they pay their unskilled employees well. Sam's club (Walmart), on the other hand, is not known for treating their unskilled employees well, yet they are competing for the same customers in the same markets. So which one is worried about bottom line only?

I would argue SAMs is worried about bottom-line only, yet Costco has been successful.

I agree with your last 2 paragraphs. I hope to see stiffer competition and regulations.


----------



## Actionjax

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I'm sorry, did you not catch the Costco reference? By your definition, Costco is not a skilled workforce, yet they pay their unskilled employees well. Sam's club (Walmart), on the other hand, is not known for treating their unskilled employees well, yet they are competing for the same customers in the same markets. So which one is worried about bottom line only?
> 
> I would argue SAMs is worried about bottom-line only, yet Costco has been successful.
> 
> I agree with your last 2 paragraphs. I hope to see stiffer competition and regulations.


When evaluating both companies you have a 65 Billion dollar company vs a 270 Billion dollar company. So ya I would say WalMart isn't worried about retention in its strategy. As far as Costco being successful that will depend on where the customers go. Employee wages don't factor in to consumer purchasing. Price value does. Rarely do you ever see a boycott of a store when you see where goods come from and the horrid conditions they live in to make them. People still want their $4 tshirt from Old Navy.

Companies care when bottom line is effected. Employee care is only a strategy for. better profits.


----------



## UberTaxPro

john djjjoe said:


> Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


can a trip rating be reviewed and removed? how low can your rating go? how do ratings REALLY work? do drivers that send enormous amounts of email to CSR's get ignored? thank you!


----------



## cybertec69

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Look at Hobby Lobby and Chik-fil-A and how many customers they've alienated and lost with their corporate policies. It's not ALL about the bottom line in every business. Businesses have to consider safety and liability, laws and regulations. Some businesses are also concerned with corporate social responsibility. Some are interested in environmental issues. Also, consider Costco and how it treats employees.
> 
> If it was all about the bottom line in every business, every business would operate as Uber does. All employees would be replaced with ICs whenever possible. No benefits would be provided, ever. The wizard would remain behind the curtain, and no customer or "partner" would be able to speak with the company directly. I won't go on and on.
> 
> I don't think it's a stretch to point out that it's a sad day in our society when we accept that the people (or corporations as people) in power are held to different standards of humanity than anyone else.
> 
> Uber is a newer company, fighting lawsuits left, right and center. It's also dealing with bad press left, right and center. I guess they don't think all this negative publicity and seedy reputation is affecting its bottom line, but it will catch up to them eventually, I hope.


Uber is nothing like these companies, you join to drive for them on your own accord, they are not forcing you or me. Do the rate cuts suck, stink, blow the big one, of course, but no one is forcing you or me to stay on, we are independent contractors, and can come and go as we please, making our own hours, this is not like working for a W2, you are a 1099 self employed contractor.


----------



## thehappytypist

UberTaxPro said:


> Do CSR's use their real names when emailing with uber drivers? why does it take so long to get a response with Uber? Are CSR's working 24/7 or only normal business hours? Did you ever have to "speak" with an uber driver for any reason?


I can answer a couple of those. The name you see is either our real name or a nickname. Some go by a short version of their name, I've seen some go by their last name. CSRs are working 24/7 but the bulk of them work during the day. Length of time for response depends on how swamped they are. Escalated issues take MUCH longer. Days longer.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

cybertec69 said:


> Uber is nothing like these companies, you join to drive for them on your own accord, they are not forcing you or me. Do the rate cuts suck, stink, blow the big one, of course, but no one is forcing you or me to stay on, we are independent contractors, and can come and go as we please, making our own hours, this is not like working for a W2, you are a 1099 self employed contractor.


I no longer drive for uber. Still, it doesnt make it right. I don't think many filthy rich people are driving uberx. With uber, you work one day and make a certain amount, you wake up the next day and everything has changed. People were expecting to make a certain amount of money, planning on it accordingly, and they received no reasonable notice of the changes. It's just not right. Basic human decency dictates that you give people notice, time to make other arrangements. It's not right, no matter how you spin it. It's predatory.


----------



## UberTaxPro

thehappytypist said:


> I can answer a couple of those. The name you see is either our real name or a nickname. Some go by a short version of their name, I've seen some go by their last name. CSRs are working 24/7 but the bulk of them work during the day. Length of time for response depends on how swamped they are. Escalated issues take MUCH longer. Days longer.


thanks! what makes an issue get escalated?


----------



## cybertec69

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I no longer drive for uber. Still, it doesnt make it right. I don't think many filthy rich people are driving uberx. With uber, you work one day and make a certain amount, you wake up the next day and everything has changed. People were expecting to make a certain amount of money, planning on it accordingly, and they received no reasonable notice of the changes. It's just not right. Basic human decency dictates that you give people notice, time to make other arrangements. It's not right, no matter how you spin it. It's predatory.


All what you are saying is true, but there is nothing that will change the way uber operates. They are run by today's new generation hipster, me me, all me mentality. As you can tell by the corporate robotic responses by John the former CSR. The human element is a thing of the past.


----------



## ElectroFuzz

UberTaxPro said:


> thanks! what makes an issue get escalated?


When the initial CSR canned messages are not enough for you and you keep 
coming back they escalate it to ...... a higher level CSR ?

Something like that.


----------



## cybertec69

Everyone here should come to the realization that complaining is just a waste of your time, after hundreds of emails to Uber CSR voicing my displeasures, and constantly receiving the same caned responses, I just came to the realization it is just a losing proposition, and I needed to put this wasted energy to better use. I stopped emailing them, and just do the best I can with what am I given to work with.


----------



## Sly

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Look at Hobby Lobby and Chik-fil-A and how many customers they've alienated and lost with their corporate policies. .


The line is longer outside a chik-fil-a than a burger king, more people flock to them than ever before.


----------



## cybertec69

Sly said:


> The line is longer outside a chik-fil-a than a burger king, more people flock to them than ever before.


Is this where you now spend most of your time


----------



## UberHammer

cybertec69 said:


> All what you are saying is true, but there is nothing that will change the way uber operates. They are run by today's new generation hipster, me me, all me mentality. As you can tell by the corporate robotic responses by John the former CSR. The human element is a thing of the past.


The human element is a thing of the past ONLY if people stop doing the human thing of rejecting Uber for being inhuman. Uber cannot succeed being inhuman unless society becomes inhuman too.

The biggest mistake Uber is making with its contempt relationship with its drivers is failing to see the link that many Uber customers have personal relationships with drivers. I hear all the time that "my so and so drives for Uber too". Uber's shit treatment of drivers will harm its relationship with its customers. It's just a matter of time.


----------



## cybertec69

UberHammer said:


> The human element is a thing of the past ONLY if people stop doing the human thing of rejecting Uber for being inhuman. Uber cannot succeed being inhuman unless society becomes inhuman too.
> 
> The biggest mistake Uber is making with its contempt relationship with its drivers is failing to see the link that many Uber customers have personal relationships with drivers. I hear all the time that "my so and so drives for Uber too". Uber's shit treatment of drivers will harm its relationship with its customers. It's just a matter of time.


You need to get out more, people will always use uber, I have customers tell me they would not know what they would do without uber, at the end of the day all you are is just a human transportation vehicle, nothing more nothing less, and when you decide to quit there is thousands waiting to take your place.


----------



## UberHammer

cybertec69 said:


> You need to get out more, people will always use uber, I have customers tell they would not know what they would do without uber, at the end of the day all you are is just a human transportation vehicle, nothing more nothing less, and when you decide to quit there is thousands waiting to take your place.


What Uber is today is NOT what Uber is becoming.

Hell, what Uber was in December is not what it is now. The quality is tanking as a result of what Travis is doing.


----------



## thehappytypist

UberTaxPro said:


> thanks! what makes an issue get escalated?


A. Push back - arguing with your current CSR.

B. Issues that the normal CSRs aren't allowed to handle. There are a lot of those, at least for NYC anyway.


----------



## thehappytypist

ElectroFuzz said:


> When the initial CSR canned messages are not enough for you and you keep
> coming back they escalate it to ...... a higher level CSR ?
> 
> Something like that.


On driver side, 99% of the time it means it's escalated to Driver Ops in the office. In other words, the managers.


----------



## Jav

How important is the Uber brand to Uber? I have never seen a company turn a brand that stood for quality service, savvy, revolutionary, at an affordable price t0 then, in what seems overnight, turn to deceptive, shady, lawless, low budget and poor service in a matter of months...are they even aware of the damage a brand can take financially from being devalued? Are their investors aware that the brand they so heavily invested in is being run into the ground at record pace levels?


----------



## UberHammer

Jav said:


> Are their investors aware that the brand they so heavily invested in is being run into the ground at record pace levels?


Google is. But they have the benefit of knowing what the pulse of collective thought on the internet is before anyone else. Google invested in Uber two years ago when Uber was only worth $1 billion. So Google already has a 40x return on their investment. But from what Google is doing now, they've tipped their hat that they know the party is over for Uber. The other Uber investors have to discover the public pulse of Uber the long, drawn out way.


----------



## Lidman

UberHammer said:


> What Uber is today is NOT what Uber is becoming.
> 
> Hell, what Uber was in December is not what it is now. The quality is tanking as a result of what Travis is doing.


As you probably know, Travis had run previous business' in the ground. His biggest mistake currently is thinking that UBER can over power Google. That will eventually be his undoing.


----------



## rtaatl

Thanks for the input JD;

My questions are as follows:

Does your ping radius increase the longer your idle time and if not it would be a good implementation.

What is Uber's direction for Uberblack (if there is any at all) because with the Select and Plus options it appears they are trying to kill it. There have been no promotions of the brand and business has seemed to decline because of this.

Will Uber adopt a set standard or at the very least consult professionals in the transportation industry because some of their Black car requirements are downright absurd (in certain markets) for the fares posted. Who's really going to tear up an $80K Audi or Mercedes for $15 minimum fares.

Edit: Also they should implement that all black car operators know the address of a riders destination once hailed. It is not illegal for us since limousine service has the classification of a set fare for a pre determined destination.


----------



## frndthDuvel

Sly said:


> The line is longer outside a chik-fil-a than a burger king, more people flock to them than ever before.


More popular because the anti gay marriage and many Christian folk are seeing it as a calling to stuff their faces with those sandwiches for Jesus and Murrica!


----------



## ldriva

UberHammer said:


> Every driver, read this.
> 
> READ THIS!
> 
> READ THIS!!!!


I'm on verge of deleting my app. Sucks that I paid $47 to start mt DC account since I just moved. My last two weeks driving for Lyft only has been my most profitable since I started my ridesharing career. May need to keep it that way until I make money in my business.


----------



## cybertec69

Jav said:


> How important is the Uber brand to Uber? I have never seen a company turn a brand that stood for quality service, savvy, revolutionary, at an affordable price t0 then, in what seems overnight, turn to deceptive, shady, lawless, low budget and poor service in a matter of months...are they even aware of the damage a brand can take financially from being devalued? Are their investors aware that the brand they so heavily invested in is being run into the ground at record pace levels?


Says who, uber is growing at breakneck speed, with more funding in the pipeline, those venture capitalists are eating this phenomenon called Uber like it's the last meal on earth.


----------



## DjTim

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I disagree.
> Look at Hobby Lobby and Chik-fil-A and how many customers they've alienated and lost with their corporate policies. It's not ALL about the bottom line in every business. Businesses have to consider safety and liability, laws and regulations. Some businesses are also concerned with corporate social responsibility. Some are interested in environmental issues. Also, consider Costco and how it treats employees.


I hate to say this, but I disagree with you on this point. Chik-fil-A has been growing leaps and bounds in the last year. The have a solid business model. If you search reddit - there are many AMA (Ask Me Anything) threads from current and ex-Chik-fil-A employees and they have stated every time that Chik treats their employees very well. The controversy around Chik is with their owners and statements about their personal beliefs. Many don't support that point of view, but the way that the corporation runs the Chik business is actually not bad. The personal views of the owners aren't company policy.

Hobby Lobby is very different then Chik. Again - Hobby Lobby isn't earning cash hand over fists, but they are on par with Michaels and regionalized craft suppliers. Many people don't agree with their stance on healthcare. The big issue is many Hobby Lobby employees agreed with the company. The reason HL even is in the press is because they filed lawsuits stating religious reasons they wanted to get a "release" from forcing some of the language about the Obamacare laws. Again - there have been many AMA's on reddit with current and former employees and all have stated that they have been treated well.

@john djjjoe is pointing out very obvious information in all of his statements. Until you get to the investors and take away their earnings or impact a company that impacts their investors - change won't happen. When Uber's market & earnings start to slide, we will see a change in leadership and views. We as drivers may not like this, and we all know that riders are oblivious to the fact. For now - anyone who is currently invested in Uber thinks that they (Uber) is still on the right track. We may not agree with this (I don't) but the investors at this point do.


----------



## JGDenton

I found out recently that an Iphone is not required to run the Uber driver app. I immediately sent back the phone they were making me lease to drive when I found this out. It has been a couple of weeks now and they are still charging me the $10/week fee. I asked about this and received a response that it could take weeks after they receive the phone to process it out of the system and that I am responsible for paying the fee until they get around to it. Is this correct policy? Anything I can do about it?


----------



## Andy1234

Jose Guzman said:


> I found out recently that an Iphone is not required to run the Uber driver app. I immediately sent back the phone they were making me lease to drive when I found this out. It has been a couple of weeks now and they are still charging me the $10/week fee. I asked about this and received a response that it could take weeks after they receive the phone to process it out of the system and that I am responsible for paying the fee until they get around to it. Is this correct policy? Anything I can do about it?


Escalate the Sh!t out of that. When I returned mine I got a credit on my pay statement for the week it was not in use and in-transit back to Uber.


----------



## Jav

cybertec69 said:


> Says who, uber is growing at breakneck speed, with more funding in the pipeline, those venture capitalists are eating this phenomenon called Uber like it's the last meal on earth.


Says just about every business that has ever cultivated a brand and watched it pissed away once someone without a clue took over the company.

Sony comes to mind. Sony used to be known for their quality products, then they went all cheap and became something for everybody and quality suffered, now, they are no longer known for being cutting edge but simply another company trying to stay alive and relevant. Uber is making Sony's mistakes but before their eggs even hatch! In essence, they are simply doing everything they can to gobble up investor cash but have no care in the world of the future of these investments as long as they can cash out before the fools catch on....its so obvious that it's mind boggling that people are still pouring money into it knowing the info thats already out there. Its not a safe investment and I will most likely short it once its out. Human nature is a ***** and they are doing everything to piss it off.

The only reason Uber is even still viable is because the economy is absolute gargbage right now for many, soon as it turns around...the only people working uberx will be the truly clueless young kids with little experience in life and exp behind the wheel) and the truly desperate... neither of which you would want to trust your family with just so you can save a few dollars( well, most of us anyways).


----------



## UberHammer

Jav said:


> Says just about every business that has ever cultivated a brand and watched it pissed away once someone without a clue took over the company.


Apple even experienced this. Look at the years Scully ran the company instead of Jobs.

A bit of financial advise for those who want it... when you see someone who believes a company can't fail, do NOT do what they do investment wise.


----------



## cybertec69

Jav said:


> Says just about every business that has ever cultivated a brand and watched it pissed away once someone without a clue took over the company.
> 
> Sony comes to mind. Sony used to be known for their quality products, then they went all cheap and became something for everybody and quality suffered, now, they are no longer known for being cutting edge but simply another company trying to stay alive and relevant. Uber is making Sony's mistakes but before their eggs even hatch! In essence, they are simply doing everything they can to gobble up investor cash but have no care in the world of the future of these investments as long as they can cash out before the fools catch on....its so obvious that it's mind boggling that people are still pouring money into it knowing the info thats already out there. Its not a safe investment and I will most likely short it once its out. Human nature is a ***** and they are doing everything to piss it off.
> 
> The only reason Uber is even still viable is because the economy is absolute gargbage right now for many, soon as it turns around...the only people working uberx will be the truly clueless young kids with little experience in life and exp behind the wheel) and the truly desperate... neither of which you would want to trust your family with just so you can save a few dollars( well, most of us anyways).


Bad example, Sonys demise is do to LG and Samsung that have killed all Japanese electronics companies, from Panasonic, Hitachi and Sony, also the up and coming Chinese brands.
Who is a real competitor to Uber, lyft, not even close. Like I said uber is moving and expanding at break neck speed. I am not jumping around waving the pom poms for uber, but I say it like I see it.
I suggest use that negative energy and channel it towards a more positive attitude, you need to come to grips that Uber is a massive corporation that will do whatever it needs to do to make its creditors happy, just like any other business operating on this planet. Every business needs a credit line, to keep that credit line open and in good standing you need to show the lenders positive quarterly returns, uber has been borrowing like there is no tomorrow, and money needs to be paid back with interest.


----------



## cybertec69

UberHammer said:


> Apple even experienced this. Look at the years Scully ran the company instead of Jobs.
> 
> A bit of financial advise for those who want it... when you see someone who believes a company can't fail, do NOT do what they do investment wise.


Again why do you care so much, no one is forcing you to drive for Uber, the are many FHV bases out there, just like if you like Pepsi, I am sure you are not forced to drink Coca-Cola.


----------



## UberHammer

cybertec69 said:


> Again why do you care so much, *no one is forcing you to drive for Uber*, the are many FHV bases out there, just like if you like Pepsi, I am sure you are not forced to drink Coca-Cola.


<sigh>

https://uberpeople.net/threads/exploitation-doesnt-have-to-be-forced.14215/


----------



## Jav

cybertec69 said:


> Bad example, Sonys demise is do to LG and Samsung that have killed all Japanese electronics companies, from Panasonic, Hitachi and Sony, also the up and coming Chinese brands.
> Who is a real competitor to Uber, lyft, not even close. Like I said uber is moving and expanding at break neck speed. I am not jumping around waving the pom poms for uber, but I say it like I see it.
> I suggest use that negative energy and channel it towards a more positive attitude, you need to come to grips that Uber is a massive corporation that will do whatever it needs to do to make its creditors happy, just like any other business operating on this planet. Every business needs a credit line, to keep that credit line open and in good standing you need to show the lenders positive quarterly returns, uber has been borrowing like there is no tomorrow, and money needs to be paid back with interest.


Credibility will come to play eventually, Uber is losing more and more of it everyday, it's as simple as that...what you call negative energy is what I call "saying it like I see it".


----------



## DjTim

Jav said:


> Credibility will come to play eventually, Uber is losing more and more of it everyday, it's as simple as that...what you call negative energy is what I call "saying it like I see it".


Meh - I don't know about that. Using this board and some press clippings doesn't really say much. Since Uber isn't public, we can't see the flux of investors. Even companies like Microsoft & IBM - they can make a misstep and it would cost them billions (investors thousands/millions) and they can rebound in a month or quarter. We really don't know what's in store for Uber or the other companies in this space. Sure it looks bad from our perspective because we are partners. Investors look at this from a totally different angle.

Lets say Uber or Lyft were public. I think if they ever go IPO - it would be a very high risk investment. I would play a short term strategy with them. They would make some cash, I divest 60/80% at a peak, typically before an earnings release. Let the bad news subside and pick it up again. Notice how I wouldn't give a damn how they treat their employees or drivers. Is it ruthless - sure. You should also look at Apple - how all their workers overseas are treated for you to purchase that $800 dollar iPhone. I still have Apple stock. Everyone enjoys that phone - and you have employees jumping off buildings and deplorable conditions.

Like I said before - until anything related to Uber starts to impact their investors - this ship ain't moving anywhere but forward. I'm sure someone is going to insert a titanic reference here somewhere amiright?


----------



## UberHammer

What Uber is currently doing is a lot like Coke changing their recipe back in 1985.

Coke recovered because it quickly realized it was a huge mistake and switched back the old recipe immediately. 

I doubt Travis Kalanick will even admit what he's doing is a mistake.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Even in China Uber has problems
http://www.zdnet.com/article/china-bans-private-cars-using-uber/


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

UberHammer said:


> What Uber is currently doing is a lot like Coke changing their recipe back in 1985.
> 
> Coke recovered because it quickly realized it was a huge mistake and switched back the old recipe immediately.
> 
> I doubt Travis Kalanick will even admit what he's doing is a mistake.


Tech nerds think they're the smartest person in the room and can never admit to being wrong.
Even Mr. John Doe is an arrogant prick.


----------



## uberox

Hi John,

Can Uber employee put any cap on the rating or manually manipulated driver rating?

thanks


----------



## uber_sea

A CSR that makes $15 per hour and use mom and dad's car to uber on weekends think she's better than all of the uber drivers.


----------



## UberHammer

uber_sea said:


> A CSR that makes $15 per hour and use mom and dad's car to uber on weekends think she's better than all of the uber drivers.


$15 may be generous. Remember, it's Uber.


----------



## Sly

Jav said:


> Says just about every business that has ever cultivated a brand and watched it pissed away once someone without a clue took over the company.
> 
> Sony comes to mind. Sony used to be known for their quality products, then they went all cheap and became something for everybody and quality suffered, now, they are no longer known for being cutting edge but simply another company trying to stay alive and relevant. Uber is making Sony's mistakes but before their eggs even hatch! In essence, they are simply doing everything they can to gobble up investor cash but have no care in the world of the future of these investments as long as they can cash out before the fools catch on....its so obvious that it's mind boggling that people are still pouring money into it knowing the info thats already out there. Its not a safe investment and I will most likely short it once its out. Human nature is a ***** and they are doing everything to piss it off.
> 
> The only reason Uber is even still viable is because the economy is absolute gargbage right now for many, soon as it turns around...the only people working uberx will be the truly clueless young kids with little experience in life and exp behind the wheel) and the truly desperate... neither of which you would want to trust your family with just so you can save a few dollars( well, most of us anyways).


The only reason Uber has a chance is because the monopolistic taxi cab companies are refusing to change their stripes. If they stopped charging drivers so much for cab rental, stopped requiring 12 hour rentals. Allowed the drivers to work only when they want to, during busy hours, and lowered their rates then Uber would go broke trying to keep up.


----------



## PT Go

John,

Once again, thanks for stepping into this storm. I would gladly approach my base, but to find the local office in Sacramento would be not easy (unless somebody else knows where it's at) I just find it's rude for someone to turn their back on drivers. Maybe it's because I researched my findings and hit them with the truth. (But very politely)


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Sly said:


> The only reason Uber has a chance is because the monopolistic taxi cab companies are refusing to change their stripes. If they stopped charging drivers so much for cab rental, stopped requiring 12 hour rentals. Allowed the drivers to work only when they want to, during busy hours, and lowered their rates then Uber would go broke trying to keep up.


Yeah, Taxi companies can have three eight hour shifts


----------



## Roogy

Question to John Djjjoe: 
I was deactivated for having a "2 week rolling rating below 4.4" although my overall was 4.70 (down from 4.85 two weeks prior). Is that normal? No one here seems to have ever heard of a being evaluated based on a 2 week sample size of a dozen or so rated rides.


----------



## Denouber

Roogy said:


> Question to John Djjjoe:
> I was deactivated for having a "2 week rolling rating below 4.4" although my overall was 4.70 (down from 4.85 two weeks prior). Is that normal? No one here seems to have ever heard of a being evaluated based on a 2 week sample size of a dozen or so rated rides.


Yep they deactivate people base on overall not weekly rating !!


----------



## Denouber

John where are you bro ? People waiting for you, is that how you guys do as Uber CSRS replying to pax and drivers!!!


----------



## MikeB

Denouber said:


> John where are you bro ? People waiting for you, is that how you guys do as Uber CSRS replying to pax and drivers!!!


Proly Ubering on weekends.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Jon Dough is here tonight

http://www.nowherebarnyc.com


----------



## bilyvh

How cheap is Uber, even in the office here in NYC if you look at the laptops the people in the office are using it says something like 'loaner' which means that Uber was too cheap to even buy a couple of laptops for the office, its absolutely incredible the culture of this company.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

bilyvh said:


> How cheap is Uber, even in the office here in NYC if you look at the laptops the people in the office are using it says something like 'loaner' which means that Uber was too cheap to even buy a couple of laptops for the office, its absolutely incredible the culture of this company.


Everyone and everything is temporary and disposable to Uber.


----------



## Denouber

bilyvh said:


> How cheap is Uber, even in the office here in NYC if you look at the laptops the people in the office are using it says something like 'loaner' which means that Uber was too cheap to even buy a couple of laptops for the office, its absolutely incredible the culture of this company.


They don't even have bathroom in their office ! They are asked to use next door Cvs restroom .


----------



## Sacto Burbs

Dear John

Thanks for posting. Lurkers appreciate you. 

What, no one noticed that our kindly ex-CSR said Uber is not profitable on the driver/passenger business? No discussion on that? Should be on a new thread though.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Sacto Burbs said:


> What, no one noticed that our kindly ex-CSR said Uber is not profitable on the driver/passenger business? No discussion on that? Should be on a new thread though.


I noticed that, doesn't make sense to me though.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

That is because the driver/passenger app is an experiment. It is not the end product.

It may never be profitable.

I will answer the question about rate cuts. We are rats in a maze. Take as much cheese as you can for as long as you can and then get out.

And all of us will be able to tell our grandchildren that we were part of the great experiment


----------



## bilyvh

Sacto Burbs said:


> That is because the driver/passenger app is an experiment. It is not the end product.
> 
> It may never be profitable.
> 
> I will answer the question about rate cuts. We are rats in a maze. Take as much cheese as you can for as long as you can and then get out.
> 
> And all of us will be able to tell our grandchildren that we were part of the great experiment


Bingo! This was a fun game 2 years ago, piles of money to be made, I spoke to some guys that were with uber from the very start here in NY they all said they made net over $100k in the first year on X and it has only gone downhill from there. It may not be abpyramid scheme, but it sure as hell feels like one, make the money and get out of the burning house!!


----------



## PT Go

Let's not be so harsh on John as he came her of his own choice and offered info that we may not have had. I think we are at a critical stage of operations and any info we can gather to help us is very important.

OK, give me a moment to get on my flame ******ant uniform......


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Sacto Burbs said:


> That is because the driver/passenger app is an experiment. It is not the end product.
> 
> It may never be profitable.
> 
> I will answer the question about rate cuts. We are rats in a maze. Take as much cheese as you can for as long as you can and then get out.
> 
> And all of us will be able to tell our grandchildren that we were part of the great experiment


I think John Doe is talking out of his ass, how can Uber not be profitable ? 
Thousands of suckers giving 20 to 40 % of their earnings to Uber ?
And they don't make a profit ?
Is that logical to you ?


----------



## Sacto Burbs

Topic moved to a new thread

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-is-not-yet-profitable.14375/


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Sacto Burbs said:


> Topic moved to a new thread
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-is-not-yet-profitable.14375/


Big deal


----------



## Just_in

Since I never heard of a driver getting a charge back

One question I have is how can every credit (debit) card be good. As a rider you sign up put a credit (debit) card on file. You request a Uber but your credit card is tapped out. Or in your debit account their is no money after the ride is over. How is that handled?


----------



## Sly

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> I think John Doe is talking out of his ass, how can Uber not be profitable ?
> Thousands of suckers giving 20 to 40 % of their earnings to Uber ?
> And they don't make a profit ?
> Is that logical to you ?


You don't make a profit giving free rides to get customers and guaranteeing paychecks to get drivers.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Sly said:


> You don't make a profit giving free rides to get customers and guaranteeing paychecks to get drivers.


How many free rides can you get ?
And I made more than the guarantee so I didn't get anything that I didn't work for.


----------



## Sly

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> How many free rides can you get ?
> And I made more than the guarantee so I didn't get anything that I didn't work for.


When they opened in Orlando, some got over 30 free rides.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Sly said:


> When they opened in Orlando, some got over 30 free rides.


Friends helped you get them ?
I have two cars so I don't pay attention to how to work the uber system.
And quite frankly, I don't want to be driven by a Uber driver.


----------



## Uber-Doober

Sly said:


> The only reason Uber has a chance is because the monopolistic taxi cab companies are refusing to change their stripes. If they stopped charging drivers so much for cab rental, stopped requiring 12 hour rentals. Allowed the drivers to work only when they want to, during busy hours, and lowered their rates then Uber would go broke trying to keep up.


^^^
It's a formula that has worked for over 100 years. 
Just on local news today (Which I rarely ever watch) it was stated that the average cab driver here in town takes home $1,200. a week. 
At current rates, what do you think the full time Uber driver is taking home after working 12 to 14 hours a day?


----------



## Uber-Doober

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> I noticed that, doesn't make sense to me though.


^^^
I saw that too, but the only thing that I can infer is that Uber is making money off of renting out the app to drivers, which is a very fine line of distinction. 
But since they keep harping that they're not a transportation company....


----------



## Uber-Doober

Sly said:


> When they opened in Orlando, some got over 30 free rides.


^^^
Disney World or Uber? 
Sorry, jk.


----------



## Uber-Doober

bilyvh said:


> How cheap is Uber, even in the office here in NYC if you look at the laptops the people in the office are using it says something like 'loaner' which means that Uber was too cheap to even buy a couple of laptops for the office, its absolutely incredible the culture of this company.


^^^
Maybe somebody misspelled loner. 
Or loser?


----------



## Bart McCoy

Sly said:


> You don't make a profit giving free rides to get customers and guaranteeing paychecks to get drivers.


if everybody gamed the gurantee,and uber always kept the gurantee, math says uber clearly would be out of business
uber can give out a lot of free rides right now, because they are making so much money


----------



## Uber-Doober

Bart McCoy said:


> if everybody gamed the gurantee,and uber always kept the gurantee, math says uber clearly would be out of business
> uber can give out a lot of free rides right now, because they are making so much money


^^^
Obviously you haven't heard of the billions in cash investments that Uber has received over the last six months in particular. 
That ocean of cash is what's keeping Uber afloat.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Obviously you haven't heard of the billions in cash investments that Uber has received over the last six months in particular.
> That ocean of cash is what's keeping Uber afloat.


yes, they have money to burn,but even with that, they can NOT do the gurantees forever. it woudl defeat the purpose of lowering the per mile rates


----------



## frndthDuvel

cybertec69 said:


> , you need to come to grips that Uber is a massive corporation that will do whatever it needs to do to make its creditors happy,.


Eventually raising rates might keep creditors and investors happy huh? I have a hard time thinking that investors will not see the disparity between cab price and UBER and want to shrink that margin. But I can also imagine them upping their take of Driver's take.


----------



## frndthDuvel

Bart McCoy said:


> yes, they have money to burn,but even with that, they can NOT do the gurantees forever. it woudl defeat the purpose of lowering the per mile rates


I am not so sure they are not making money with the guarantees. You have seen all the Drivers having problems getting those guarantees. Well while they are trying for them they are providing coverage and probably making more money for UBER than they were previously. I think I am near 1400 bucks in guarantee payouts. But I have also driven more and provided more income to UBER than any previous 1 month period. Sitting home tonight on XL, 45 minutes to go till I sign off, after not moving for 3 hours. OOPS! PING!!! Turned out it was a downtown trip with a 1.5 surge. 51 bucks after UBER, so that paid 2 of my guarantee hours. But without the guarantee I might not have been signed on and there might not have been coverage in this area. Which means unhappy Riders who can not depend upon rides when they want. Perhaps instead of raising rates to keep drivers happy they just keep the guarantees going awhile longer. I did get email yesterday that said guarantees will be ending soon so get it while you can. I hope to. It is a nice floor to have, and I have no problem and even hope to exceed the guarantees. I accept all pings. But it sure is nice getting paid for those 5-8am XL hours with no calls.


----------



## Sydney Uber

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> I think John Doe is talking out of his ass, how can Uber not be profitable ?
> Thousands of suckers giving 20 to 40 % of their earnings to Uber ?
> And they don't make a profit ?
> Is that logical to you ?


We may never know the truth in regards to UBER's P&L figures. Its investors would like to know how their gamble on a company that has a business plan based on deception, dropping consumer costs and non compliance of legislated laws was going.

Can you imagine how shaky it must feel, when in the cold hard light of the day, investors work out the much touted 40billion dollar valuation is based on asset manipulation, highly leveraged borrowings on anything tangible like offices, tech gear and a website with an old tech App.

How can you run at a profit on 20%-30% on market of $10-15 transactions. Whilst shelling out millions in legal fees and citations to protect your stake in a transport sector that starts below what Cabs take?

Uber will keep its booking figures very secret, they wouldn't dare release the truth.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

^^^
Volume, that's how.
But you're right Uber keeps all their information close to their vest.


----------



## Sydney Uber

john djjjoe said:


> Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


Hey JD!

Thanks for your input here. I remember watching a UBER management recruitment video showing different Uber offices around the world hooking up and chewing the fat together on Skype. Did that happen?

So did Australia ever hit the radar screens at your office, or are the Colonies too far removed?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

thehappytypist said:


> On driver side, 99% of the time it means it's escalated to Driver Ops in the office. In other words, the managers.


I wasn't awake and he left no message or phone number I only knew that was a call because the CS or emailed me to tell me he called


Sydney Uber said:


> Hey JD!
> 
> Thanks for your input here. I remember watching a UBER management recruitment video showing different Uber offices around the world hooking up and chewing the fat together on Skype. Did that happen?
> 
> So did Australia ever hit the radar screens at your office, or are the Colonies too far removed?


Aren't you both colonies?


----------



## UberHammer

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> And quite frankly, I don't want to be driven by a Uber driver.


More and more people are coming to this conclusion after using Uber recently.


----------



## Sydney Uber

UberHammer said:


> More and more people are coming to this conclusion after using Uber recently.


Its become a lottery. The odds of having a great "experience" are pushing out on all UBER platforms.

Got 2 requests from UBER black riders over the weekend for my private number. Asked them why, and one mentioned my new clean car (4yr old 40,000 mile Q7 Suv!) and smooth driving. The other said he had a bad run of newbie drivers that took incorrect tunnel exits where GPS is non-existant, smelt bad and had dirty cars.

When they were told my starting price was close to 3 times the UBER minimum and needed pre-booking you could tell interest waned. One asked why I did UBER if my own prices were so much more. He didn't like being told he was a convenient quick buck, that when busy could easily add up with 2 others in an hour to exceed my minimum.

In the end you get what you pay for.


----------



## Montgomery

I have some questions:

Is the rumor going around that Uber is trying to change the rules that allow drivers to work for other companies such as Lyft and Gett , and ensure that a driver affiliated with Uber only drives for Uber, a myth, something being talked about within Uber, or something that Uber is actively pursuing?

Back in December a driver on an Uber call was carjacked in Brooklyn. Did Uber offer that driver any kind of help/support? 
How did the office or company staff react to this?

Thanks for answering questions.


----------



## Courageous

Montgomery said:


> I have some questions:
> 
> Is the rumor going around that Uber is trying to change the rules that allow drivers to work for other companies such as Lyft and Gett , and ensure that a driver affiliated with Uber only drives for Uber, a myth, something being talked about within Uber, or something that Uber is actively pursuing?
> 
> Back in December a driver on an Uber call was carjacked in Brooklyn. Did Uber offer that driver any kind of help/support?
> How did the office or company staff react to this?
> 
> Thanks for answering questions.


Just a guess on this...I bet it will be the insurance companies providing the hybrid product that will put an end to driving for multiple companies simultaneously.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Montgomery said:


> I have some questions:
> 
> Is the rumor going around that Uber is trying to change the rules that allow drivers to work for other companies such as Lyft and Gett , and ensure that a driver affiliated with Uber only drives for Uber, a myth, something being talked about within Uber, or something that Uber is actively pursuing?
> .


wait what
only drive for Uber? that sounds like an employee,if you can put restrictions on like that


----------



## The LAwnmower

Johnny!
Ha. I dig your candid responses. Couple questions. Forgive me if any of these have been asked before but I only made it thru 5 pages of this thread and I got a golf course to go eat up.
1. Do you know of an Uber discussions to get requests back to there home base if they leave the area on a ride? i.e. I drive someone to L.A. from Orange Cty now I gotta find my way back so it is like I drove twice as many miles for the same fare. I'm just turning down rides at these low fares once they tell me they gotta go 20miles or more. Last night I turned down a guy wanting to go from Costa Mesa to Lake Forest. I made up some excuse that I have to pick up my imaginary daughter in 30min. He told me 2 other drivers before me turned him down too for the ride. That ride was only like 15miles too. Ha.
2. Does Uber ever sweeten the pot to bring back drivers? I have a 4.89 rating with over 1000 rides. I'm not driving after they stop the guarantees. Will Uber ever come back to me and say 'hey lawnmower we want you to drive again and we will pay you $2000 this month if you accept 50 rides with blah blah blah conditions'
3. With the ever lowering of rates doesn't Uber care if the quality of the car and individual driving goes down (which absolutely will happen). Wouldn't that drive more people to another service if they had good prices with good service? Maybe Lyft pivots and uses that as an angle. McDonalds can sell a 50 cent hamburger yet I'll never eat there because of the quality but I will gladly pay $3.80 for an In n Out which price point and quality are perfect.
4. Uber ever have discussions about raising the base per mile and limiting the surge to like 2.0 max? Seems like most customer complaints and bad press are about the surge. Seems logical. Its not like a pax will stop using Uber if it is 1.50 mile or 1.00. 

Thanks for your reply


----------



## SCdave

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> I think John Doe is talking out of his ass, how can Uber not be profitable ?
> Thousands of suckers giving 20 to 40 % of their earnings to Uber ?
> And they don't make a profit ?
> Is that logical to you ?


It's called Cost Accounting (a black art practiced by many but mastered by few). Cost Accounting is "legal" while "cooking the books" is not. Which is Uber doing. I sucked at Cost Accounting so I'm not a good one to ask. Hey where's that Zen99 "Former" CPA when you need him?

Also, it's easy to say in any "point in time" that Uber or any company "Is not profitable". It does not mean that one cannot say that Uber isn't a great investment/business and "not profitable" in the same breathe.

The question is sustainability. Amazon has been around for like 20 years and still hasn't turned a profit as a company.


----------



## UberTaxPro

They are taking profits and reinvesting them to expand into new areas. The 20% they get from you goes to free rides in a new city they're expanding into


----------



## UberTaxPro

SCdave said:


> It's called Cost Accounting (a black art practiced by many but mastered by few). Cost Accounting is "legal" while "cooking the books" is not. Which is Uber doing. I sucked at Cost Accounting so I'm not a good one to ask. Hey where's that Zen99 "Former" CPA when you need him?
> 
> Also, it's easy to say in any "point in time" that Uber or any company "Is not profitable". It does not mean that one cannot say that Uber isn't a great investment/business and "not profitable" in the same breathe.
> 
> The question is sustainability. Amazon has been around for like 20 years and still hasn't turned a profit as a company.


Someday when they slow down the expansion it all turns to $PROFIT


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

SCdave said:


> Amazon has been around for like 20 years and still hasn't turned a profit as a company.


Yep, not many people believe that.


----------



## OCBob

Here is a question: If UBER is able to do Uberpool then why have they not done a request from drivers where you are at the end of your "shift" and only want riders that are in the direction they are driving home and also going in that same direction? I, and many other drivers, are forced to turn off our apps when it is getting late and we don't want to end up farther from our home. This would keep drivers past the 3AM mark and have the few pick ups much closer to the drivers as many more are driving with the app on. This wouldn't be just for late night but just an example time period.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

Lyft does that with Lyftline. At the end of your shift you get to be the first passenger in a Lyftline home, but you often don't get a passenger.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

DjTim said:


> I hate to say this, but I disagree with you on this point. Chik-fil-A has been growing leaps and bounds in the last year. The have a solid business model. If you search reddit - there are many AMA (Ask Me Anything) threads from current and ex-Chik-fil-A employees and they have stated every time that Chik treats their employees very well. The controversy around Chik is with their owners and statements about their personal beliefs. Many don't support that point of view, but the way that the corporation runs the Chik business is actually not bad. The personal views of the owners aren't company policy.
> 
> Hobby Lobby is very different then Chik. Again - Hobby Lobby isn't earning cash hand over fists, but they are on par with Michaels and regionalized craft suppliers. Many people don't agree with their stance on healthcare. The big issue is many Hobby Lobby employees agreed with the company. The reason HL even is in the press is because they filed lawsuits stating religious reasons they wanted to get a "release" from forcing some of the language about the Obamacare laws. Again - there have been many AMA's on reddit with current and former employees and all have stated that they have been treated well.
> 
> @john djjjoe is pointing out very obvious information in all of his statements. Until you get to the investors and take away their earnings or impact a company that impacts their investors - change won't happen. When Uber's market & earnings start to slide, we will see a change in leadership and views. We as drivers may not like this, and we all know that riders are oblivious to the fact. For now - anyone who is currently invested in Uber thinks that they (Uber) is still on the right track. We may not agree with this (I don't) but the investors at this point do.


My point is that some businesses/corporations make "moral" decisions that have nothing to do with bottom line. Chik-fil-A could increase profits instantaneously by opening on Sunday.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

JaxBeachDriver said:


> My point is that some businesses/corporations make "moral" decisions that have nothing to do with bottom line. Chik-fil-A could increase profits instantaneously by opening on Sunday.


I only ate at a Chik-fil-A once and their food sucks.


----------



## PT Go

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> I only ate at a Chik-fil-A once and their food sucks.


AND expensive. Took Grandson there once as it was his choice for his weekend visit. Never again.


----------



## Optimus Uber

Are you gay or straight? Boxers or briefs? He said I could ask anything

PM me if you want to chew some fat.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> I only ate at a Chik-fil-A once and their food sucks.


yeap, they are totally overrated
however I do dig their soup and lemonade


----------



## Bart McCoy

Optimus Uber said:


> Are you gay or straight? Boxers or briefs? He said I could ask anything
> 
> PM me if you want to chew some fat.


chew some fat? wtf, puke
lets stay on the topic of Uber please


----------



## brikosig

How often do they run the complete background checks on drivers? ....just the initial one when we get hired? What does it cost uber to do the complete background check?


----------



## Actionjax

brikosig said:


> How often do they run the complete background checks on drivers? ....just the initial one when we get hired? What does it cost uber to do the complete background check?


Here in Canada They do an RCMP and Local check. (According to Uber) They also claim they are doing better screening than the current Taxi model since they have turned away Taxi drivers as they failed the screening process.

Now how frequently they will redo the check that I am curious. I would think an annual screening should be done at the minimum.


----------



## ReviTULize

I can smell the hate from the parking lot, but the chicken is pretty good.


----------



## LAuberX

Has nobody noticed the CSR ain't coming back?


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

^^^
It's not like he's getting paid to answer questions here.


----------



## UberHammer

LAuberX said:


> Has nobody noticed the CSR ain't coming back?


Why would someone who worked for a horrible employer want to relive the nightmare?


----------



## LAuberX

Our combined banality has exceeded his UberBS capacity.

BS has built up to toxic levels after working for the mother ship too long


----------



## Bart McCoy

LAuberX said:


> Has nobody noticed the CSR ain't coming back?


the Uber illuminati folks nabbed him


----------



## observer

Bart McCoy said:


> the Uber illuminati folks nabbed him


He probably signed a nondisclosure agreement when hired. Someone from Uber saw his posts, tracked him down and silenced him.


----------



## Bart McCoy

observer said:


> He probably signed a nondisclosure agreement when hired. Someone from Uber saw his posts, tracked him down and silenced him.


[email protected] him
you saying his carcass is being dragged behind an Uber pickup truck?


----------



## Actionjax

Bart McCoy said:


> [email protected] him
> you saying his carcass is being dragged behind an Uber pickup truck?


If it is that truck is only being paid at $0.40 per mile.


----------



## observer

Bart McCoy said:


> [email protected] him
> you saying his carcass is being dragged behind an Uber pickup truck?


Lol, yea, I noticed the wording after I posted and wondered if that was a subconscious thought that popped out.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Actionjax said:


> If it is that truck is only being paid at $0.40 per mile.


buhahahahahaha


----------



## DrJeecheroo

UberHammer said:


> Why would someone who worked for a horrible employer want to relive the nightmare?


Maybe he misses sending out those personable emails. Having a hallmark moment.


----------



## Andy1234

DrJeecheroo said:


> Maybe he misses sending out those personable emails. Having a hallmark moment.


You would think an Ex CSR would be used to the relentless attacks... but I suppose everyone has a breaking point.


----------



## UberTaxPro

Big Machine said:


> Im trying to figure out how you thought what you do with uber was anything besides a commodity. Do you not know what a commodity is? I think a lot of Uber drivers need to get their heads out of their asses and realize they are not doing God's work by driving for Uber and are just filling a roll that can be filled by any non skilled person out there.


Sounds like a self image problem to me.....therapy?


----------



## Fauxknight

Uber-Doober said:


> But if somebody isn't in the bracket to itemize, that dough that they pay to the tax preparer is blown out the window.


True of W2 jobs, not true with ICs/1099 jobs. Mileage and other business expenses are deducted from the gross before you determine profit, then from that profit you do you personal expenses or use the standard miminimum.


----------



## Denouber

LAuberX said:


> Our combined banality has exceeded his UberBS capacity.
> 
> BS has built up to toxic levels after working for the mother ship too long


He is a green snake in the grass!!!!


----------



## Optimus Uber

Bart McCoy said:


> chew some fat? wtf, puke
> lets stay on the topic of Uber please


In case you haven't noticed he left the conversation already. The thread has turned into a joke

Guy comes on to help out and it turns into a driver pissing contest

That's why I stated if he wanted to take it offline, I have some info to share. But I won't do it here as the general members aren't saavy enough to discuss it with intelligence

Chewing the fat is a way of stating if he wants to talk

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or just stupid

Based on your past post I'm leaning towards the latter.


----------



## Uber-Doober

Fauxknight said:


> True of W2 jobs, not true with ICs/1099 jobs. Mileage and other business expenses are deducted from the gross before you determine profit, then from that profit you do you personal expenses or use the standard miminimum.


OK, I agree with you on that. 
But the money spent on the tax preparer is still shot to hell.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Optimus Uber said:


> Not sure if you are being sarcastic or just stupid
> 
> Based on your past post I'm leaning towards the latter.


well damn
im not stupid, so cut that crap out,like right now,and dont let your keyboard slip like that again
i just didnt understand the lingo you used, sorry im not hip
but asking about being gay and boxer or brief? joke if you want, but most hetero's dont want to hear about that type of talk


----------



## Uber-Doober

Bart McCoy said:


> well damn
> im not stupid, so cut that crap out,like right now,and dont let your keyboard slip like that again
> i just didnt understand the lingo you used, sorry im not hip
> but asking about being gay and boxer or brief? joke if you want, but most hetero's dont want to hear about that type of talk


^^^
"Hip"? 
What's that?


----------



## Orlando_Driver

Does Uber pay Sly to post comments on here ?


----------



## Bart McCoy

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> "Hip"?
> What's that?


hip? are you seriously asking that question?


----------



## Bart McCoy

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> "Hip"?
> What's that?


hip
Cooler than cool, the pinnacle of what is "it". Beyond all trends and conventional coolness. Not to be mistaken for "deck".

Just like in some places Uber has gotten "hip" to gaming the gurantee.

I sure hope that was sarcasm


----------



## Uberdawg

LAuberX said:


> Has nobody noticed the CSR ain't coming back?


He may have a life.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Uberdawg said:


> He may have a life.


yeap, with a new witness protection identity


----------



## Uber-Doober

Bart McCoy said:


> hip
> Cooler than cool, the pinnacle of what is "it". Beyond all trends and conventional coolness. Not to be mistaken for "deck".
> 
> Just like in some places Uber has gotten "hip" to gaming the gurantee.
> 
> I sure hope that was sarcasm


^^
It was.


----------



## Uber-Doober

Bart McCoy said:


> hip? are you seriously asking that question?


^^^
Nope just kidding. 
And you had to ask? 
WTF!


----------



## Bart McCoy

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Nope just kidding.
> And you had to ask?
> WTF!


yes
it was written very seriously lol


----------



## UberHammer

Uberdawg said:


> He may have a life.


Well, now he does.


----------



## Uber-Doober

Bart McCoy said:


> yes
> it was written very seriously lol


^^^
Sorry to tell you this, but your serious is my flippant.


----------



## Bart McCoy

Uber-Doober said:


> ^^^
> Sorry to tell you this, but your serious is my flippant.


im not "hip" on the word flippant


----------



## Uber-Doober

Bart McCoy said:


> im not "hip" on the word flippant


^^^
LOL... you fkr.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

Children, children, children. Your repartee is not funny enough. Get on topic or get funny.


----------



## JJcriggins

Stick a fork in this thread...


----------



## UberHammer

JJcriggins said:


> Stick a fork in this thread...


----------



## Liquid

Bart McCoy said:


> well damn
> im not stupid, so cut that crap out,like right now,and dont let your keyboard slip like that again
> i just didnt understand the lingo you used, sorry im not hip
> but asking about being gay and boxer or brief? joke if you want, but most hetero's dont want to hear about that type of talk


My keyboard isn't "slipping," I think your just plain stupid myself.


----------



## JJcriggins

UberHammer said:


>


Forget the Fork
Call The Coroner!


----------



## Bart McCoy

Liquid said:


> My keyboard isn't "slipping," I think your just plain stupid myself.


just watch your mouth slim
and its you're


----------



## brikosig

JJcriggins said:


> Forget the Fork
> Call The Coroner!


Call the Proctologist first..... he might be able to work things out before needing the coroner .....LOL


----------



## jiwagon

K read the whole thread. Pretty boring and learned nothing. Was a bit shocked how stupid the questions were. Feel like the opportunity to get interesting info was completely wasted. Have a nice day.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

jizzwagon said:


> K read the whole thread. Pretty boring and learned nothing. Was a bit shocked how stupid the questions were. Feel like the opportunity to get interesting info was completely wasted. Have a nice day.


I agree, I didn't really learn anything that I didn't already suspect. You're very expendable by Uber, they don't distinguish between a person with no experience from a person with decades of experience. So F them.


----------



## Bart McCoy

jizzwagon said:


> K read the whole thread. Pretty boring and learned nothing. Was a bit shocked how stupid the questions were. Feel like the opportunity to get interesting info was completely wasted. Have a nice day.


I'll give you a free Uber ride for your troubles


----------



## JJcriggins

I Did NOT read the whole thread.
was there any compelling reason to believe that this guy was legit?
Seemed to lose steam pretty quickly


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

JJcriggins said:


> I Did NOT read the whole thread.
> was there any compelling reason to believe that this guy was legit?
> Seemed to lose steam pretty quickly


I think he was real, cut and paste expert and snarky.


----------



## john djjjoe

Have not been keeping up as I have had things to do.



Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> I think he was real, cut and paste expert and snarky.


Don't really feel like wading through any more of this guy's bullshit. This forum is insane and I was wrong to think a constructive conversation could have had. The attitude reflected by "Long time Nyc cab driver" and a few others is a major turnoff to anyone not personally invested in attacking Uber out of spite. Enjoy the circlejerk. Lurkers/anyone I didn't answer feel free to PM questions, will get to them as I am able regardless of how long it takes.

Not worth it to post on this thread publicly anymore despite what I had previously thought (that it could be more helpful to make information more available).


----------



## Denouber

john djjjoe said:


> Have not been keeping up as I have had things to do.
> 
> Don't really feel like wading through any more of this guy's bullshit. This forum is insane and I was wrong to think a constructive conversation could have had. The attitude reflected by "Long time Nyc cab driver" and a few others is a major turnoff to anyone not personally invested in attacking Uber out of spite. Enjoy the circlejerk. Lurkers/anyone I didn't answer feel free to PM questions, will get to them as I am able regardless of how long it takes.
> 
> Not worth it to post on this thread publicly anymore despite what I had previously thought (that it could be more helpful to make information more available).


Hi you doing John ! What s going on man ?


----------



## Rockwall

john djjjoe said:


> Have not been keeping up as I have had things to do.
> 
> Don't really feel like wading through any more of this guy's bullshit. This forum is insane and I was wrong to think a constructive conversation could have had. The attitude reflected by "Long time Nyc cab driver" and a few others is a major turnoff to anyone not personally invested in attacking Uber out of spite. Enjoy the circlejerk. Lurkers/anyone I didn't answer feel free to PM questions, will get to them as I am able regardless of how long it takes.
> 
> Not worth it to post on this thread publicly anymore despite what I had previously thought (that it could be more helpful to make information more available).


Thanks for trying to help out. Good luck


----------



## jiwagon

john djjjoe said:


> Have not been keeping up as I have had things to do.
> 
> Don't really feel like wading through any more of this guy's bullshit. This forum is insane and I was wrong to think a constructive conversation could have had. The attitude reflected by "Long time Nyc cab driver" and a few others is a major turnoff to anyone not personally invested in attacking Uber out of spite. Enjoy the circlejerk. Lurkers/anyone I didn't answer feel free to PM questions, will get to them as I am able regardless of how long it takes.
> 
> Not worth it to post on this thread publicly anymore despite what I had previously thought (that it could be more helpful to make information more available).


Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Loser


----------



## Actionjax

john djjjoe said:


> Have not been keeping up as I have had things to do.
> 
> Don't really feel like wading through any more of this guy's bullshit. This forum is insane and I was wrong to think a constructive conversation could have had. The attitude reflected by "Long time Nyc cab driver" and a few others is a major turnoff to anyone not personally invested in attacking Uber out of spite. Enjoy the circlejerk. Lurkers/anyone I didn't answer feel free to PM questions, will get to them as I am able regardless of how long it takes.
> 
> Not worth it to post on this thread publicly anymore despite what I had previously thought (that it could be more helpful to make information more available).


Some of us do appreciate the contribution. Thanks for stopping by.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

john djjjoe said:


> Have not been keeping up as I have had things to do.
> 
> Don't really feel like wading through any more of this guy's bullshit. This forum is insane and I was wrong to think a constructive conversation could have had. The attitude reflected by "Long time Nyc cab driver" and a few others is a major turnoff to anyone not personally invested in attacking Uber out of spite. Enjoy the circlejerk. Lurkers/anyone I didn't answer feel free to PM questions, will get to them as I am able regardless of how long it takes.
> 
> Not worth it to post on this thread publicly anymore despite what I had previously thought (that it could be more helpful to make information more available).


Kiss my ass elitist arrogant prick.


----------



## Denouber

Doe you mad bro?


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Actionjax said:


> Some of us do appreciate the contribution. Thanks for stopping by.


----------



## Actionjax

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> View attachment 5407


Thanks for stating that for us. I would expect no less from you.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Actionjax said:


> Thanks for stating that for us. I would expect no less from you.


You're welcome.


----------



## Andy1234

john djjjoe said:


> Have not been keeping up as I have had things to do.
> 
> Don't really feel like wading through any more of this guy's bullshit. This forum is insane and I was wrong to think a constructive conversation could have had. The attitude reflected by "Long time Nyc cab driver" and a few others is a major turnoff to anyone not personally invested in attacking Uber out of spite. Enjoy the circlejerk. Lurkers/anyone I didn't answer feel free to PM questions, will get to them as I am able regardless of how long it takes.
> 
> Not worth it to post on this thread publicly anymore despite what I had previously thought (that it could be more helpful to make information more available).


Thanks for the attempt. I would say about 50% of the people on here are pissed off at life because driving people around whether it be Uber, Lyft, or a Cab did not bring them fame or fortune and would like nothing more than to bring others down with them. 20% of the people are only interested in defrauding Uber just enough not to get deactivated and find it a good idea to make it public record. The last 30% are on here to actually share information and support the industry. So in any thread on this site 7 out of 10 posts will be completely useless.... but I think this par for any forum, blog, or social media site these days. Faceless trolling on the internet has become one of America's favorite past times.


----------



## jiwagon

Andy1234 said:


> Thanks for the attempt. I would say about 50% of the people on here are pissed off at life because driving people around whether it be Uber, Lyft, or a Cab did not bring them fame or fortune and would like nothing more than to bring others down with them. 20% of the people are only interested in defrauding Uber just enough not to get deactivated and find it a good idea to make it public record. The last 30% are on here to actually share information and support the industry. So in any thread on this site 7 out of 10 posts will be completely useless.... but I think this par for any forum, blog, or social media site these days. Faceless trolling on the internet has become one of America's favorite past times.


Yeah that's it, it has nothing to do with legitimate complaints. It's all projection. We believe you, Travis. Just kidding, we don't. Nice try. Now raise the rates back to where they were so your customers can get reliable rides, freak.


----------



## Andy1234

jizzwagon said:


> Yeah that's it, it has nothing to do with legitimate complaints. It's all projection. We believe you, Travis. Just kidding, we don't. Nice try. Now raise the rates back to where they were so your customers can get reliable rides, freak.


Oh you were complaining about the rates??? Never seen that specific complaint 10,000 times on this forum. Yes, we all know the rates suck. It's time to move on because clearly Travis couldn't give a flying F what any of us say about the rates on here. Now if you have a completely new complaint I'm all for discussing it. Otherwise what is the point??? If someone does have a new complaint please refrain from responding unless you have a real actionable workaround that does not involve Uber changing their policies.


----------



## UberHammer

Andy1234 said:


> Thanks for the attempt. I would say about 50% of the people on here are pissed off at life because driving people around whether it be Uber, Lyft, or a Cab did not bring them fame or fortune and would like nothing more than to bring others down with them. 20% of the people are only interested in defrauding Uber just enough not to get deactivated and find it a good idea to make it public record. The last 30% are on here to actually share information and support the industry. So in any thread on this site 7 out of 10 posts will be completely useless.... but I think this par for any forum, blog, or social media site these days. Faceless trolling on the internet has become one of America's favorite past times.


You left out the ones who were happy making what they were making with customers happy paying what they were paying... until Uber changed the rates one day causing them to make half of what they were making before, while Uber tells them they're making more with lower rates because to Uber "make" means fares and not "profit". In fact, that's probably the biggest group here.


----------



## UberOn

Ahhh, when you sift through what this CSR replied, it becomes obvious how to get Uber's attention on issues important to drivers - forget about strikes, work slowdowns, complaining, we need to get the attention of the INVESTORS in Uber. Anything that gets investors concerned will go straight to the top of Uber's concerns. 

Their investors from all rounds are clearly identifiable, so let's get some ideas together like a mass email campaign from drivers to those investors and CC sympathetic media outlets, or have Silicon Valley drivers protest outside investors offices until the media picks up on driver issues, especially stressing politically correct issues like safety, insurance coverage, fair treatment, fair wages, etc. 

Investors MUST get to IPO or they are stuck in Uber, hit them where it hurts and things just might start to change.


----------



## UberHammer

UberOn said:


> Ahhh, when you sift through what this CSR replied, it becomes obvious how to get Uber's attention on issues important to drivers - forget about strikes, work slowdowns, complaining, we need to get the attention of the INVESTORS in Uber. Anything that gets investors concerned will go straight to the top of Uber's concerns.
> 
> Their investors from all rounds are clearly identifiable, so let's get some ideas together like a mass email campaign from drivers to those investors and CC sympathetic media outlets, or have Silicon Valley drivers protest outside investors offices until the media picks up on driver issues, especially stressing politically correct issues like safety, insurance coverage, fair treatment, fair wages, etc.
> 
> Investors MUST get to IPO or they are stuck in Uber, hit them where it hurts and things just might start to change.


The company I worked for before my current one was one that Goldman Sachs invested tens of millions into with the expectation that it would go IPO within two to three years. It didn't. The CEO was fired. I hope the same happens to Travis.


----------



## flyingdingo

If I do something to upset the CSR, is there anyway that she can blackball my account so that I get fewer rides?


----------



## UberOn

Without drivers, all Uber has is an app and pax, and with the quality decline in the driver pool, investors should be very concerned about the business model Uber is following. Let's bring reality to their doorstep.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

UberHammer said:


> The company I worked for before my current one was one that Goldman Sachs invested tens of millions into with the expectation that it would go IPO within two to three years. It didn't. The CEO was fired. I hope the same happens to Travis.


Steve Jobs got fired from a company that he started !!
I'm not comparing TK to Steve Jobs, Travis is no Steve Jobs!


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> The company I worked for before my current one was one that Goldman Sachs invested tens of millions into with the expectation that it would go IPO within two to three years. It didn't. The CEO was fired. I hope the same happens to Travis.


I will expect the same thing. Once public they will want a credible board if directors and a proper CEO that is looking at sustainable growth and not short term flash.


----------



## Actionjax

flyingdingo said:


> If I do something to upset the CSR, is there anyway that she can blackball my account so that I get fewer rides?


I would say no. But that being said it doesn't stop them from flagging your account for any sign of trouble. Then deactivate when they have a chance.


----------



## observer

Actionjax said:


> I will expect the same thing. Once public they will want a credible board if directors and a proper CEO that is looking at sustainable growth and not short term flash.


I thought I read somewhere that Travis has structured the way money is raised so that he basically can't get fired. I'll try and find the article and post it.


----------



## Uberdawg

observer said:


> I thought I read somewhere that Travis has structured the way money is raised so that he basically can't get fired. I'll try and find the article and post it.


That may work right now while the company is private. Once it is public, all bets are off. He serves at the pleasure of the BOD.


----------



## observer

Here is the article,

http://fortune.com/2014/11/24/dont-overstate-investor-power-at-uber/

Do you think he wants to give up power? People with his ego don't care about the money, they care about their status and power.


----------



## Actionjax

observer said:


> Here is the article,
> 
> http://fortune.com/2014/11/24/dont-overstate-investor-power-at-uber/
> 
> Do you think he wants to give up power? People with his ego don't care about the money, they care about their status and power.


When you go public you own voting shares like everyone else. And in the end those who invested in this enterprise will get shares divided between one another. Travis will hold a large amount but not against the collective of all other investors. Long as the votes sway to remove him he will be gone. Or people will dump the shares and the stock will plummet. Just feeding in to more pressure for removal. Makes the vote much easier.


----------



## jiwagon

observer said:


> Here is the article,
> 
> http://fortune.com/2014/11/24/dont-overstate-investor-power-at-uber/
> 
> Do you think he wants to give up power? People with his ego don't care about the money, they care about their status and power.


I think he'll get exhausted with keeping his company afloat and bail. He's in way over his little head.


----------



## scrurbscrud

observer said:


> I thought I read somewhere that Travis has structured the way money is raised so that he basically can't get fired. I'll try and find the article and post it.


That's all good til an IPO. Then it's a whole new ballgame.


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberOn said:


> Without drivers, all Uber has is an app and pax, and with the quality decline in the driver pool, investors should be very concerned about the business model Uber is following. Let's bring reality to their doorstep.


I can only imagine how much money they are bleeding with guarantees and drivers dodging fares to get them.


----------



## thehappytypist

flyingdingo said:


> If I do something to upset the CSR, is there anyway that she can blackball my account so that I get fewer rides?


Nope. We can't deactivate your account, either.


----------



## Route9

It looks like they may issue dual class shares where the different classes have distinct voting rights and dividend payments. Two share classes are typically issued: one share class is offered to the general public, and the other is offered to company founders, executives and family. The class offered to the general public has limited voting rights, while the class available to founders and executives has more voting power and often provides a majority control of the company.


----------



## UberCemetery

Thanks for taking over @thehappytypist Looks like we had to escalate the thread.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Route9 said:


> It looks like they may issue dual class shares where the different classes have distinct voting rights and dividend payments. Two share classes are typically issued: one share class is offered to the general public, and the other is offered to company founders, executives and family. The class offered to the general public has limited voting rights, while the class available to founders and executives has more voting power and often provides a majority control of the company.


Exactly, you win the prize today !!


----------



## jiwagon

scrurbscrud said:


> I can only imagine how much money they are bleeding with guarantees and drivers dodging fares to get them.


I think they lose most money in free rides, paying for tickets, and hiring a bunch of people. Reckless money management and business strategy.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

scrurbscrud said:


> I can only imagine how much money they are bleeding with guarantees and drivers dodging fares to get them.


How many people get the guarantees without actually earning it ?


----------



## Uberdawg

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> How many people get the guarantees without actually earning it ?


by definition, if you get the guarantee, you aren't earning it.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Uberdawg said:


> by definition, if you get the guarantee, you aren't earning it.


Lol, you're right.


----------



## JJcriggins

john djjjoe said:


> Have not been keeping up as I have had things to do.
> 
> Don't really feel like wading through any more of this guy's bullshit. This forum is insane and I was wrong to think a constructive conversation could have had. The attitude reflected by "Long time Nyc cab driver" and a few others is a major turnoff to anyone not personally invested in attacking Uber out of spite. Enjoy the circlejerk. Lurkers/anyone I didn't answer feel free to PM questions, will get to them as I am able regardless of how long it takes.
> 
> Not worth it to post on this thread publicly anymore despite what I had previously thought (that it could be more helpful to make information more available).


@Long time Nyc cab driver - I thought you were rather civil and objective here.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> How many people get the guarantees without actually earning it ?


If you read their posts the majority of them are shooting for the average of 1 ping an hour to meet the guarantee and then trying to hide out where they won't get pinged.

IF that's the real case, and to hear the majority of them, it is, THEN Uber is losing their asses and the potential pax are getting neglected to boot.

Not a wise move on Uber's part.


----------



## JJcriggins

scrurbscrud said:


> If you read their posts the majority of them are shooting for the average of 1 ping an hour to meet the guarantee and then trying to hide out where they won't get pinged.
> 
> IF that's the real case, and to hear the majority of them, it is, THEN Uber is losing their asses and the potential pax are getting neglected to boot.
> 
> Not a wise move on Uber's part.


I think Uber wants to appear to be ubiquitous , therefore paying to have it "Appear" like there are drivers everywhere , all the time.

*Mr Billion Dollar Investor says* "Look, i'm in east BumbleFck at 3AM on a Wednesday and look there is a driver 6 minutes away, Uber is Awesome!"

Meantime, 6 minutes away is someone sleeping with the app online, on their night stand


----------



## scrurbscrud

JJcriggins said:


> I think Uber wants to appear to be ubiquitous , therefore paying to have it "Appear" like there are drivers everywhere , all the time.
> 
> *Mr Billion Dollar Investor says* "Look, i'm in east BumbleFck at 3AM on a Wednesday and look there is a driver 6 minutes away, Uber is Awesome!"
> 
> Meantime, *6 minutes away is someone sleeping with the app online, on their night stand*


You know it. Hell, I've done it myself. I'm an early riser. Every a.m. bout 4:30 I could pinpoint every UberX sleeper and where they are living, down to the night stand if you zoom in close enuf...

Course a billionaire investor probably doesn't think to use the tech to zoom in and see where the car is either. Why, it's in the damn BEDROOM! heh heh


----------



## thehappytypist

UberCemetery said:


> Thanks for taking over @thehappytypist Looks like we had to escalate the thread.


I didn't want to barge in but the thread has been abandoned by the other CSR, so now it belongs to me.


----------



## DjTim

thehappytypist said:


> I didn't want to barge in but the thread has been abandoned by the other CSR, so now it belongs to me.


Good luck and please don't leave


----------



## Sydney Uber

Andy1234 said:


> Oh you were complaining about the rates??? Never seen that specific complaint 10,000 times on this forum. Yes, we all know the rates suck. It's time to move on because clearly Travis couldn't give a flying F what any of us say about the rates on here. Now if you have a completely new complaint I'm all for discussing it. Otherwise what is the point??? If someone does have a new complaint please refrain from responding unless you have a real actionable workaround that does not involve Uber changing their policies.


I have a complaint - I can't load Crazy Birds onto my Uber phone. If I'm paying for Data shouldn't I get the choice of what Apps i use?


----------



## Actionjax

Sydney Uber said:


> I have a complaint - I can't load Crazy Birds onto my Uber phone. If I'm paying for Data shouldn't I get the choice of what Apps i use?


Just do what I did. Wipe it out and reload everything. Now you can load whatever you want. Just Google it for instructions.


----------



## DrJeecheroo

Welcome back happy we need you!!!


----------



## UberHammer

jizzwagon said:


> I think he'll get exhausted with keeping his company afloat and bail. He's in way over his little head.


He is in way over his head. But he comes across to me as one of those not willing to admit it until it's too late.


----------



## Jimmy Lee Hagerty

MikeB said:


> Is there a specific time frame when the driver is idle to deactivate him? Month, two, six?


I go tsick in November, after thanksgiving. I contacted the office and told them what was going on. They said I would be deactivated after 6 weeks, and would be re-activated when I was back on my feet but to keep them in the loop. I went till after Christmas and returned to my home base. (I was out of town). I was not de-activated during that time. When I got home I turned on the driver app for an hour. (I live outside the city limits in an area where a ping would be rare). I did that until Feb 5. I was never de-activated and began driving again. I checked ion weekly all during the time, staff was very supportive here in Charleston SC


----------



## MikeB

Jimmy Lee Hagerty said:


> I go tsick in November, after thanksgiving. I contacted the office and told them what was going on. They said I would be deactivated after 6 weeks, and would be re-activated when I was back on my feet but to keep them in the loop. I went till after Christmas and returned to my home base. (I was out of town). I was not de-activated during that time. When I got home I turned on the driver app for an hour. (I live outside the city limits in an area where a ping would be rare). I did that until Feb 5. I was never de-activated and began driving again. I checked ion weekly all during the time, staff was very supportive here in Charleston SC


Yeah, it seems like they don't deactivate. It's been over 8 weeks for me and I'm still active. They just requested to update insurance.


----------



## Jimmy Lee Hagerty

UberHammer said:


> $15 may be generous. Remember, it's Uber.


Apple pays $10/hr base. Sometimes if you sell a warrenty you see a few extra bucks for the week


----------



## thehappytypist

DrJeecheroo said:


> Welcome back happy we need you!!!


Oh, I'm here. I visit daily, I just don't say much.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

JJcriggins said:


> @Long time Nyc cab driver - I thought you were rather civil and objective here.


I was


----------



## Montgomery

thehappytypist said:


> Oh, I'm here. I visit daily, I just don't say much.


Can you answer the questions I posted since the other CSR left?


----------



## thehappytypist

Montgomery said:


> Can you answer the questions I posted since the other CSR left?


I'll go back and find them.


----------



## thehappytypist

Montgomery said:


> I have some questions:
> 
> Is the rumor going around that Uber is trying to change the rules that allow drivers to work for other companies such as Lyft and Gett , and ensure that a driver affiliated with Uber only drives for Uber, a myth, something being talked about within Uber, or something that Uber is actively pursuing?
> 
> Back in December a driver on an Uber call was carjacked in Brooklyn. Did Uber offer that driver any kind of help/support?
> How did the office or company staff react to this?
> 
> Thanks for answering questions.


I haven't really heard anything about trying to limit who they drive for. The only similar thing I know is NYC-centric, they're trying to get everyone they can onto an Uber base just in case they suddenly aren't allowed to drive for multiple companies from one base. Apparently.

I had no idea about this so either they didn't react much or it was over the heads of us CSRs.


----------



## UberNJreality

Will they really deactivate for turning down rides going to an undesirable destination?


----------



## Red

UberNJreality said:


> Will they really deactivate for turning down rides going to an undesirable destination?


Of course they will. That's industry's rule. You reject trip you don't like - you get the penalty.


----------



## UberNJreality

That's not what their lawyer said in Federal Court in California.


----------



## Chris Dee

PT Go said:


> AND expensive. Took Grandson there once as it was his choice for his weekend visit. Never again.


I never pay for anything at Chik Fil A.....


----------



## Chris Dee

UberNJreality said:


> Will they really deactivate for turning down rides going to an undesirable destination?


So where in NJ do you not want to accept a ride request??? Hmmmm??? I worked in Paterson, Newark and Camden, I doubt anyone there even knows about Uber.


----------



## Chris Dee

I think anyone that drives X is getting beat up and making barely enough to survive. I think you should do what many Miami drivers are doing and just quit or go to a bigger vehicle. It seems that X is surging a lot lately in Miami and when the rider app is viewed you don't see that many X vehicles any more. I also notice more and more XL's out there than before so at least in our market it seems that drivers are just not driving anymore on the X platform.


----------



## Sydney Uber

thehappytypist said:


> I didn't want to barge in but the thread has been abandoned by the other CSR, so now it belongs to me.


Barge Away!

Need to ask you. Are you feeling secure about your job with UBER? What is turnover like for support staff? Has Management let on much about the advent of overseas based CSR's replacing city specific staff?


----------



## Route9

I'm guessing they are bleeding legal bills. Lawyers are not cheap and they are fighting legal battles everywhere. A company does not usually issue preferred security type stock unless they are deeply in debt! If there have a dual type stock scenario then this is most likely the case.


----------



## thehappytypist

Sydney Uber said:


> Barge Away!
> 
> Need to ask you. Are you feeling secure about your job with UBER? What is turnover like for support staff? Has Management let on much about the advent of overseas based CSR's replacing city specific staff?


Nobody is feeling really secure right now. Some contracts have come to an end and people are being let go before their last day - getting a phone call saying not to log in to work any more. They're getting paid til the end of their contract (for this round it's March 1st) but still, that's cold. The overseas agents are a huge worry too, of course. It always is when a company starts hiring them. The quality of their work is shit but they're cheap.


----------



## UberCemetery

Looks like they are getting to big for there own britches. They don't care about anybody except the investors at this point. But you never know the concern about the investors may change also? Just look whats happening with Google.


----------



## UberCemetery

*Will Nissan Beat Google and Uber to Self-Driving Taxis?*
*By Mark Harris

http://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-...an-beat-google-and-uber-to-self-driving-taxis*


----------



## UberCemetery




----------



## UberCemetery




----------



## Sydney Uber

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> I was


Its all relative!

A New Yorker's civility is brusqueness in New Orleans!


----------



## Yankee

john djjjoe said:


> Pax can be banned however there is nothing to stop them from simply making a new account. I've never seen someone be banned however from discussions I think if there was some sort of court case adjudicating fault we might have done it. Neither your word nor even what you tell a police officer (and thus have entered into a police report) are unbiased accounts unless an officer saw something unfolding in front of him which I never saw.
> 
> There is no automated process that I know of however it is technically possible for it to be done manually (although I wouldn't deny I've seen some repeated/absurd complaints from 5* riders which lead me to think the programmers might have put some sort of easter egg into our system that does it automatically at some point  however I would add I have NEVER seen or heard of this being done manually
> 
> Seriously though- 5* riders tend to be new, it is extremely unlikely
> 
> With the amount of money being raised right now, nobody cares. The business model is not about matching you with passengers (but that is supposed to become profitable for the firm long term within about a year) it goes far beyond that.


This is a very interesting statement, and I appreciate your candor. Curious, from your perspective: what IS the business model about for Uber?


----------



## newsboy559

john djjjoe said:


> Outside of responding to complaints complaints canned responses are not the norm thankfully (and in fairness the situations wouldn't warrant them generally speaking).


Because of this statement, I don't believe you are actually who you are purporting yourself to be on this forum. It is very well known that Uber sends out almost the same exact responses to 90% of all questions about specific topics. I've seen email responses with the exact same wording from people in San Francisco to New York City.


----------



## thehappytypist

newsboy559 said:


> Because of this statement, I don't believe you are actually who you are purporting yourself to be on this forum. It is very well known that Uber sends out almost the same exact responses to 90% of all questions about specific topics. I've seen email responses with the exact same wording from people in San Francisco to New York City.


Yup. They've been making things more standard, including the responses. We can personalize if we want to (and some responses are just completely free-handed) although I've been hearing about some CSRs being threatened with termination if they don't stick with the responses and not modify them. I don't even know what's going on there, my team has always been encouraged to personalize.


----------



## UberHammer

thehappytypist said:


> Yup. They've been making things more standard, including the responses. We can personalize if we want to (and some responses are just completely free-handed) although I've been hearing about some CSRs being threatened with termination if they don't stick with the responses and not modify them. I don't even know what's going on there, my team has always been encouraged to personalize.


As drivers, we are told to politely decline passengers who request a destination outside of the city's Uber coverage that we are not comfortable driving to. However, if the customer complains about a driver who made such a choice, Uber threatens to deactivate the driver if they continue doing that.

I see a lot of consistency between Uber's contempt for its drivers and its contempt for its CSRs. It's a company that has contempt for all its workers. It's a tone set by Travis Kalanick himself. He holds the world's entire population in contempt. He's the complete opposite of a people person. He's great at engineering the flow of digital files, but he's completely out of touch with people and treats them as such.

Welcome to our nightmare.


----------



## thehappytypist

UberHammer said:


> I see a lot of consistency between Uber's contempt for its drivers and its contempt for its CSRs. It's a company that has contempt for all its workers. It's a tone set by Travis Kalanick himself. He holds the world's entire population in contempt. He's the complete opposite of a people person. He's great at engineering the flow of digital files, but he's completely out of touch with people and treats them as such.
> 
> Welcome to our nightmare.


It was great when the local CommOps managers were handling everything, then they started doing things from a national level and standardizing everything. They also aren't used to handling such a large pool of employees - the first few training groups in NYC were an experiment to see if they liked having CSRs handling tickets instead of just the managers doing it. It's still the best job I've ever had just because there's little to no phone work involved.


----------



## UberHammer

thehappytypist said:


> It was great when the local CommOps managers were handling everything, then they started doing things from a national level and standardizing everything. They also aren't used to handling such a large pool of employees - the first few training groups in NYC were an experiment to see if they liked having CSRs handling tickets instead of just the managers doing it. *It's still the best job I've ever had just because there's little to no phone work involved.*


I also love the job of driving with no boss.

I'm not going to do it for a guy who wants me to do it for $5 an hour though.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> I also love the job of driving with no boss.
> 
> I'm not going to do it for a guy who wants me to do it for $5 an hour though.


Come to our market I'm sure we can give you $10. You just loose 25% when you take the money back home.


----------



## Txchick

UberHammer said:


> You left out the ones who were happy making what they were making with customers happy paying what they were paying... until Uber changed the rates one day causing them to make half of what they were making before, while Uber tells them they're making more with lower rates because to Uber "make" means fares and not "profit". In fact, that's probably the biggest group here.


Yep @UberHammer...so true!


----------



## thehappytypist

UberHammer said:


> I also love the job of driving with no boss.
> 
> I'm not going to do it for a guy who wants me to do it for $5 an hour though.


I'm getting more than $5 an hour so I'm sticking around. I would accept a lower rate of pay than I'm making now (I feel kinda overpaid as it is) just because it's a low stress environment.


----------



## uberguy_in_ct

thehappytypist said:


> I'm getting more than $5 an hour so I'm sticking around. I would accept a lower rate of pay than I'm making now (I feel kinda overpaid as it is) just because it's a low stress environment.


Don't let uber hear you say that, or your pay rate will be cut every 3 months like clockwork. Then they will offer you a guarantee that you must work 60 minutes of every hour. No food or bathroom breaks, to try to make up a little bit of the difference. Just like they did in Ct. With what they just changed the guarantee to here, they should have just said no more guarantees.


----------



## thehappytypist

uberguy_in_ct said:


> Don't let uber hear you say that, or your pay rate will be cut every 3 months like clockwork. Then they will offer you a guarantee that you must work 60 minutes of every hour. No food or bathroom breaks, to try to make up a little bit of the difference. Just like they did in Ct. With what they just changed the guarantee to here, they should have just said no more guarantees.


Oh they've already heard it. New hires are at a rate that's $3/hour less than the first groups that were hired. My rate hasn't changed because we're locked into a one year contract. After that, we'll see.


----------



## Txchick

thehappytypist said:


> Oh they've already heard it. New hires are at a rate that's $3/hour less than the first groups that were hired. My rate hasn't changed because we're locked into a one year contract. After that, we'll see.


Like I have said before I would rather eat nails for a full time job or part time than work for ANYTHING related to Uber...horrible piece of crap company. Get some morals for yourself!!


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> Come to our market I'm sure we can give you $10. You just loose 25% when you take the money back home.


Toronto will get another rate cut soon. All cities will. Rates aren't even close to being less than the cost of car ownership yet, and that's what Travis has promised investors they will be eventually.


----------



## Txchick

UberHammer said:


> Toronto will get another rate cut soon. All cities will. Rates aren't even close to being less than the cost of car ownership yet, and that's what Travis has promised investors they will be eventually.


Yep!!


----------



## Nate_LA

john djjjoe said:


> Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


Hello John... thanks for taking the time.

I was wondering... I have a couple of free $30 rides on my customer side of things. Can I use them on myself as a driver? Meaning.. say I am going out with my wife. Can I trun on both apps... request a car... thus get myself to have the ping since I am the closest. Then take the ride and still get paid on it?


----------



## JJcriggins

Nate_LA said:


> Hello John... thanks for taking the time.
> 
> I was wondering... I have a couple of free $30 rides on my customer side of things. Can I use them on myself as a driver? Meaning.. say I am going out with my wife. Can I trun on both apps... request a car... thus get myself to have the ping since I am the closest. Then take the ride and still get paid on it?


Loaded question..


----------



## Txchick

Nate_LA said:


> Hello John... thanks for taking the time.
> 
> I was wondering... I have a couple of free $30 rides on my customer side of things. Can I use them on myself as a driver? Meaning.. say I am going out with my wife. Can I trun on both apps... request a car... thus get myself to have the ping since I am the closest. Then take the ride and still get paid on it?


Seriously????


----------



## Nate_LA

JJcriggins said:


> Loaded question..


Huh?? Why?


----------



## Nate_LA

Txchick said:


> Seriously????


Yes seriously... Can I do that or not? I need to go somewhere. I want to use my free money to pay myself. I am wondering if that is allowed or not.


----------



## JJcriggins

Nate_LA said:


> Yes seriously... Can I do that or not? I need to go somewhere. I want to use my free money to pay myself. I am wondering if that is allowed or not.


Nate,
Is the embedded question actually something else?


----------



## Txchick

Nate_LA said:


> Yes seriously... Can I do that or not? I need to go somewhere. I want to use my free money to pay myself. I am wondering if that is allowed or not.


 Do not really know & do not really care


----------



## Nate_LA

JJcriggins said:


> Nate,
> Is the embedded question actually something else?


JJ not at all. It's a straightforward question. What am I missing? Does it look like i am implying something else? Would love an explanation of what you thought I was really asking and also an answer tot he actual question posted. Thanks.


----------



## Nate_LA

Txchick said:


> Do not really know & do not really care


So if you don't know and don't care why reply to the question at all?


----------



## UberHammer

Nate_LA said:


> Hello John... thanks for taking the time.
> 
> I was wondering... I have a couple of free $30 rides on my customer side of things. Can I use them on myself as a driver? Meaning.. say I am going out with my wife. Can I trun on both apps... request a car... thus get myself to have the ping since I am the closest. Then take the ride and still get paid on it?


DO IT!!!

And be sure to report back what happens.


----------



## Txchick

Nate_LA said:


> So if you don't know and don't care why reply to the question at all?


Because it's a stupid waste of time question.


----------



## JJcriggins

Nate_LA said:


> JJ not at all. It's a straightforward question. What am I missing? Does it look like i am implying something else? Would love an explanation of what you thought I was really asking and also an answer tot he actual question posted. Thanks.


Nate,
Original poster is Audi5000, and HappyTypist isn't responding

Yes, no problem doing what you mentioned earlier- IMHO


----------



## Nate_LA

Txchick said:


> Because it's a stupid waste of time question.


You're either too angry today or just in a bad mood. You ave spent more time answering this post with silliness rather than with something constructive. Thank you very much for your non-nonsensical input.


----------



## Txchick

N


Nate_LA said:


> You're either too angry today or just in a bad mood. You ave spent more time answering this post with silliness rather than with something constructive. Thank you very much for your non-nonsensical input.


Not angry or in a bad mood Mr. Crystal ball & your question to the Uber CSR is just plain a waste of time on your part. As @UberHammer said try it & if Uber does not like it they will let u know.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> Toronto will get another rate cut soon. All cities will. Rates aren't even close to being less than the cost of car ownership yet, and that's what Travis has promised investors they will be eventually.


I'm going out Saturday morning 6AM till 12PM to if I can loose some money on doing Uber. I'm sure it will be quite and we can see what my per hour rate will be after all is said and done. I'm going to throw down about $7 even with my rates. And a lot of down time.


----------



## Godric

Stupid question...I'd terminate you for asking such a stupid question. But it really doesn't require a IQ to drive.

If I was your wife I'd tell you to pack your bags...ping Uber for a ride...then tell you to get your dumbass in the car and not come back.


----------



## Actionjax

Nate_LA said:


> Hello John... thanks for taking the time.
> 
> I was wondering... I have a couple of free $30 rides on my customer side of things. Can I use them on myself as a driver? Meaning.. say I am going out with my wife. Can I trun on both apps... request a car... thus get myself to have the ping since I am the closest. Then take the ride and still get paid on it?


I have done just that same thing and no issues. I guess it will depend on your market you are in and how close they look at you doing it. But for the 3 that I did no one cared.

I also during the election did 4 free rides worth $20 each when they were giving everyone 1 ride to the polls and 1 ride back. I use them to go run some errands. I ran 2 of them and my GF ran 2 of them for the commute to work and back.

Again I had no issues.


----------



## Denouber

Joe Doe where are you big brother!


----------



## Lidman

thehappytypist said:


> Nobody is feeling really secure right now. Some contracts have come to an end and people are being let go before their last day - getting a phone call saying not to log in to work any more. They're getting paid til the end of their contract (for this round it's March 1st) but still, that's cold. The overseas agents are a huge worry too, of course. It always is when a company starts hiring them. The quality of their work is shit but they're cheap.


Most likely outsourcing to India.


----------



## Lidman

Red said:


> Of course they will. That's industry's rule. You reject trip you don't like - you get the penalty.


 So if you got a ping picking up or dropping off in the middle of Harlem at lets say 1:am. You'd do it.


----------



## JJcriggins

Lidman said:


> So if you got a ping picking up or dropping off in the middle of Harlem at lets say 1:am. You'd do it.


Heh heh..


----------



## Disgusted Driver

Nate_LA said:


> Hello John... thanks for taking the time.
> 
> I was wondering... I have a couple of free $30 rides on my customer side of things. Can I use them on myself as a driver? Meaning.. say I am going out with my wife. Can I trun on both apps... request a car... thus get myself to have the ping since I am the closest. Then take the ride and still get paid on it?


I'll help you out here, lets rephrase the question, can I commit fraud? The answer is YES, you can do that. There is nothing in the driver contract that says you can't. Now, what will the ramifications be, hard to say. You might get away with it, you might get a one or two week suspension or you might get deactivated. I got the one week suspension when I tried it to get my guarantee money.


----------



## Actionjax

Disgusted Driver said:


> I'll help you out here, lets rephrase the question, can I commit fraud? The answer is YES, you can do that. There is nothing in the driver contract that says you can't. Now, what will the ramifications be, hard to say. You might get away with it, you might get a one or two week suspension or you might get deactivated. I got the one week suspension when I tried it to get my guarantee money.


Ya I'm not going out there and saying doing what he is suggesting. I just know I did it a few times and no issues. Either the market is so new they didn't care with the minimal staff or the linking of another account was never in question.

Using it to game a guarantee I can be sure they look at that closely.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> I'm going out Saturday morning 6AM till 12PM to if I can loose some money on doing Uber. I'm sure it will be quite and we can see what my per hour rate will be after all is said and done. I'm going to throw down about $7 even with my rates. And a lot of down time.


As long as you're not driving around burning deadhead miles, I doubt you'll lose money at your rates. But yes, being slow won't make much either.


----------



## thehappytypist

Lidman said:


> Most likely outsourcing to India.


Philippines, actually.


----------



## thehappytypist

Txchick said:


> Like I have said before I would rather eat nails for a full time job or part time than work for ANYTHING related to Uber...horrible piece of crap company. Get some morals for yourself!!


Just as soon as you pay my bills for me.


----------



## JJcriggins

thehappytypist said:


> Philippines, actually.


More Uber Profits YAY!!


----------



## Lidman

thehappytypist said:


> Just as soon as you pay my bills for me.


 If things don't work out after March1, you might want to consider being a CSR at LYFT.


----------



## Lidman

JJcriggins said:


> More Uber Profits YAY!!


* BOOOOOO!!!!!*


----------



## UberHammer

thehappytypist said:


> Philippines, actually.


Yep. Studies show they can hit ctrl+v 0.273 seconds faster than those in India. Was a no brainer decision for Travis.


----------



## JJcriggins

thehappytypist said:


> Just as soon as you pay my bills for me.


Don't be Mad, UPS is hiring


----------



## thehappytypist

JJcriggins said:


> Don't be Mad, UPS is hiring


Well that's unfortunate, I don't drive lol


----------



## thehappytypist

UberHammer said:


> Yep. Studies show they can hit ctrl+v 0.273 seconds faster than those in India. Was a no brainer decision for Travis.


And yet they manage to send the wrong response 50% of the time.


----------



## Txchick

thehappytypist said:


> Just as soon as you pay my bills for me.


Their are options in the job market!


----------



## JJcriggins

Txchick said:


> Their are options in the job market!


there are?


----------



## Txchick

JJcriggins said:


> there are?


Yes there are!!


----------



## Lidman

Like driving a cab amongst others.


----------



## thehappytypist

Txchick said:


> Their are options in the job market!


Are you always this ignorant and judgmental or is it a special occasion? Quitting a job out of moral outrage is a luxury most people don't have. Also, why should I leave a job that I like just because you say so?


----------



## JJcriggins

Hisssssss 
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer logo "Tom and Jerry" Variant (1965):


----------



## Lidman

* CAT FIGHT!!!!*


----------



## jackstraww

thehappytypist said:


> Quitting a job out of moral outrage is a luxury most people don't have


this is true- - - I spend way too much time being morally outraged> at way more issues than a job


----------



## UberHammer

Txchick said:


> Yes there are!!


I see a lot of ads on Craiglist for a company called Oover.... or Tuber.... or something like that. Pay is awesome. $1500 per week.


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect

thehappytypist said:


> I didn't want to barge in but the thread has been abandoned by the other CSR, so now it belongs to me.


Well since the fuel costs here in Southern Cailfornia have gone up a $1.00 a gallon in the last 3 weeks and are going to continue for the next couple of months...

When will Uber and Lyft raise the fare rate to match / be on par with the raise fuel costs?


----------



## thehappytypist

Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> Well since the fuel costs here in Southern Cailfornia have gone up a $1.00 a gallon in the last 3 weeks and are going to continue for the next couple of months...
> 
> When will Uber and Lyft raise the fare rate to match / be on par with the raise fuel costs?


I don't have the slightest clue. Management seems to be aware of how unhappy drivers are right now, I just haven't heard whether they plan on doing anything about it or not.


----------



## Bart McCoy

thehappytypist said:


> I don't have the slightest clue. Management seems to be aware of how unhappy drivers are right now, I just haven't heard whether they plan on doing anything about it or not.


lol simple, they not!


----------



## Hackenstein

I have a question. What ****ing right does Uber have to do virtual street hails in NYC. That right is reserved by law to yellow cabs. What right do you have to price gouge while real cabs cannot. I know... Chhabra approved all of it before he got paid for his soul by Kalanick. What an awesome company, screwing with people who work one of the hardest jobs out there, because some psychopath silicon valley shithead needs another couple Billion in his pocket.


----------



## Actionjax

Hackenstein said:


> I have a question. What ****ing right does Uber have to do virtual street hails in NYC. That right is reserved by law to yellow cabs. What right do you have to price gouge while real cabs cannot. I know... Chhabra approved all of it before he got paid for his soul by Kalanick. What an awesome company, screwing with people who work one of the hardest jobs out there, because some psychopath silicon valley shithead needs another couple Billion in his pocket.


I'm confused, what's a virtual street hail. Is that a new term like Ride Share?


----------



## Hackenstein

Actionjax said:


> I'm confused, what's a virtual street hail. Is that a new term like Ride Share?


Pressing an app on the street and having a car arrive a few minutes later is the same as a hand hail. It's illegal. It's not at all the same as prearranging a black car. Using an app as a taximeter is illegal. Only medallion yellow cabs can use a taximeter. Chhabra 'legalized' it by playing around with the law, claiming it uses GPS so it's ok, before he quit the TLC and went to 'work' for Uber. This is in reference to NYC.


----------



## Montgomery

Hackenstein said:


> Pressing an app on the street and having a car arrive a few minutes later is the same as a hand hail. It's illegal. It's not at all the same as prearranging a black car. Using an app as a taximeter is illegal. Chhabra 'legalized' it before he quit the TLC and went to 'work' for Uber. This is in reference to NYC.


I disagree. It's not a "virtual street hail" as you call it. Using the app is no different than calling a livery cab base and having them pick you up at whatever address you give them, which has always been legal.


----------



## Hackenstein

Montgomery said:


> I disagree. It's not a "virtual street hail" as you call it. Using the app is no different than calling a livery cab base and having them pick you up at whatever address you gave them. which has always been legal.


It's completely different, there's a much bigger time delay with liveries. Many of them are hours in advance. It's the lack of time delay which makes Uber essentially the same as a yellow cab. It's a virtual street hail. It's illegal. And, it uses a virtual taximeter. Illegal.


----------



## Actionjax

Hackenstein said:


> Pressing an app on the street and having a car arrive a few minutes later is the same as a hand hail. It's illegal. It's not at all the same as prearranging a black car. Using an app as a taximeter is illegal. Only medallion yellow cabs can use a taximeter. Chhabra 'legalized' it by playing around with the law, claiming it uses GPS so it's ok, before he quit the TLC and went to 'work' for Uber. This is in reference to NYC.


I think you are late to the party. It's not a Taxi. It's ride sharing and they are doing it. But it's always nice to welcome a new face to the board. If you have any questions for the illegals here we would be happy to share. Till then I suggest you work with your government to either modify the way a taxi operates or work on shutting Uber down. Both valid ways to spend your time.

BTW best taxi services I experienced was in NYC. Well ahead of other cities I have been too.


----------



## Actionjax

Hackenstein said:


> It's completely different, there's a much bigger time delay with liveries. Many of them are hours in advance. It's the lack of time delay which makes Uber essentially the same as a yellow cab. It's a virtual street hail. It's illegal. And, it uses a virtual taximeter. Illegal.


Could be argued they are just more efficient in cutting out the middle man.


----------



## Montgomery

Actionjax said:


> I'm confused, what's a virtual street hail. Is that a new term like Ride Share?


No. Is a term he just farted out of his ass.



Hackenstein said:


> Pressing an app on the street and having a car arrive a few minutes later is the same as a hand hail. It's illegal. It's not at all the same as prearranging a black car. .


Like I said, is no different than calling a livery car base. I'll give you an example since you seem to need one: I've always lived Uptown , sometimes I would be downtown with a date and wanted a car and driver that knew where my place was at uptown so I can focus on my date while in the car. I would call my local livery base uptown (First Class would be one of them), sometimes they would have a car 5 minutes away, sometimes 20. When I said sure, send the car. they would come to the restaurant/movie theater/street corner/ I would tell them to meet me at, get in the car and go. The app is just a more efficient version of this. The fact that you don't like something, doesn't make it illegal. Nice try.


----------



## Hackenstein

Actionjax said:


> I think you are late to the party. It's not a Taxi. It's ride sharing and they are doing it. But it's always nice to welcome a new face to the board. If you have any questions for the illegals here we would be happy to share. Till then I suggest you work with your government to either modify the way a taxi operates or work on shutting Uber down. Both valid ways to spend your time.
> 
> BTW best taxi services I experienced was in NYC. Well ahead of other cities I have been too.


Really, what the **** is 'ride sharing.' A lovely meaningless term. It's people 'sharing' an illegal service via a phone app. With the added charm of 'legal' price gouging to allow illegal improperly insured cars undercut legitimate taxis when they're not gouging. Is Uber still making the Australian authorities chase them around? What a disgusting company, ignore all the laws, bribe their way into markets, and paint themselves as the underdog. I drive a cab in NYC, I'm certainly not in any sort of 'cartel.' I do work hard though and make an honest living. Uber is intent on destroying that, the CEO literally said so. Personally, I'd say it's blatantly obvious that he is the asshole, not 'taxi.'


----------



## Actionjax

Montgomery said:


> No. Is a term he just farted out of his ass.
> 
> Like I said, is no different than calling a livery car base. I'll give you an example since you seem to need one: I've always lived Uptown , sometimes I would be downtown with a date and wanted a car and driver that new where my place was at uptown so I can focus on my date while in the car. I would call my local livery base uptown (First Class would be one of them), sometimes they would have a car 5 minutes away, sometimes 20. When I said sure, send the car. they would come to the restaurant/movie theater/street corner/ I would tell them to meet me at, get in the car and go. The app is just a more efficient version of this. The fact that you don't like something, doesn't make it illegal. Nice try.


Sounds legit to me.


----------



## Hackenstein

Montgomery said:


> No. Is a term he just farted out of his ass.
> 
> Like I said, is no different than calling a livery car base. I'll give you an example since you seem to need one: I've always lived Uptown , sometimes I would be downtown with a date and wanted a car and driver that new where my place was at uptown so I can focus on my date while in the car. I would call my local livery base uptown (First Class would be one of them), sometimes they would have a car 5 minutes away, sometimes 20. When I said sure, send the car. they would come to the restaurant/movie theater/street corner/ I would tell them to meet me at, get in the car and go. The app is just a more efficient version of this. The fact that you don't like something, doesn't make it illegal. Nice try.


Liveries don't use meters. Also, Uber is only technically using bases, they essentially sidestep all of it.


----------



## Raquel

UberHammer said:


> At ANY business in America, if you punch a worker you never step foot in the business again...
> 
> ...except Uber. She probably got a free ride credit.
> 
> I'm not going hyperbole by saying this.... UBER IS ****ING INSANE TO TREAT IT'S DRIVERS WITH THIS LITTLE AMOUNT OF RESPECT!!!!!


Randy Shear ( by his own admission) gave that rider 5 stars!!! WHY WOULD UBER DE ACTIVATE HER?


----------



## Lidman

Hackenstein said:


> Really, what the **** is 'ride sharing.' A lovely meaningless term. It's people 'sharing' an illegal service via a phone app. With the added charm of 'legal' price gouging to allow illegal improperly insured cars undercut legitimate taxis when they're not gouging. Is Uber still making the Australian authorities chase them around? What a disgusting company, ignore all the laws, bribe their way into markets, and paint themselves as the underdog. I drive a cab in NYC, I'm certainly not in any sort of 'cartel.' I do work hard though and make an honest living. Uber is intent on destroying that, the CEO literally said so. Personally, I'd say it's blatantly obvious that he is the asshole, not 'taxi.'


 ridesharing is indeed a taxi service ....travis has brainwashed the uberites into thinking the taxi business is like a cartel and it's not...


----------



## Actionjax

Hackenstein said:


> Really, what the **** is 'ride sharing.' A lovely meaningless term. It's people 'sharing' an illegal service via a phone app. With the added charm of 'legal' price gouging to allow illegal improperly insured cars undercut legitimate taxis when they're not gouging. Is Uber still making the Australian authorities chase them around? What a disgusting company, ignore all the laws, bribe their way into markets, and paint themselves as the underdog. I drive a cab in NYC, I'm certainly not in any sort of 'cartel.' I do work hard though and make an honest living. Uber is intent on destroying that, the CEO literally said so. Personally, I'd say it's blatantly obvious that he is the asshole, not 'taxi.'


I'm not keen on any company destroying another especially one so humble as the Taxi industry. And not really knowing your city dynamics I'm not going to try and understand the NYC Medallion system. But I do know how Taxi's work in my market and they have always been Expensive, rude, smelly, poor need of repair, and fraudulent at times. They need a good makeover. And I'm happy to see them have competition that is going to pressure them to straighten up their act. And guess what, it's starting to work a bit. They have a long way to go but if it wasn't for Uber they wouldn't take their heads out of their asses.

Illegal or not change is coming to a market that has regulations that were written when the innkeeper act said they could keep your horse as payment for a room. If Uber has changes the game I suggest that the industry try and change for the better, or find itself gone the way of the 8 track tape and blacksmiths.

The first question you need to ask is why are your customers passing on you who is right there to get an Uber. Then try and fix that. Believe it or not it's not price.


----------



## Montgomery

Lidman said:


> ridesharing is indeed a taxi service ....travis has brainwashed the uberites into thinking the taxi business is like a cartel and it's not...


I agree the term ridesharing is BS under Uber or Lyft. Just like Zipcar calling their service "Carsharing" when they started, rather than car rental on an hourly basis like it really was.


----------



## Hackenstein

Actionjax said:


> I'm not keen on any company destroying another especially one so humble as the Taxi industry. And not really knowing your city dynamics I'm not going to try and understand the NYC Medallion system. But I do know how Taxi's work in my market and they have always been Expensive, rude, smelly, poor need of repair, and fraudulent at times. They need a good makeover. And I'm happy to see them have competition that is going to pressure them to straighten up their act. And guess what, it's starting to work a bit. They have a long way to go but if it wasn't for Uber they wouldn't take their heads out of their asses.
> 
> Illegal or not change is coming to a market that has regulations that were written when the innkeeper act said they could keep your horse as payment for a room. If Uber has changes the game I suggest that the industry try and change for the better, or find itself gone the way of the 8 track tape and blacksmiths.
> 
> The first question you need to ask is why are your customers passing on you who is right there to get an Uber. Then try and fix that. Believe it or not it's not price.


Oh, ok. So it's 'competition' to allow a lawbreaking bullshit tech company which claims it's not even in the transportation business to enable improperly insured cars and improperly checked cars and drivers to roam around undercutting cabs which must pay the real costs of doing business, like full commercial insurance, mandatory thorough tri yearly inspections, yearly drug testing, and paying off medallions because that is also part of legitimate regulation. Sure, let me sidestep all of it and I'll pop bottled water out of my ass all day too. Ridiculous.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Hackenstein said:


> Oh, ok. So it's 'competition' to allow a lawbreaking bullshit tech company which claims it's not even in the transportation business to enable improperly insured cars and improperly checked cars and drivers to roam around undercutting cabs which must pay the real costs of doing business, like full commercial insurance, mandatory thorough tri yearly inspections, yearly drug testing, and paying off medallions because that is also part of legitimate regulation. Sure, let me sidestep all of it and I'll pop bottled water out of my ass all day too. Ridiculous.


I'm not in NY I'm in houston tx. But I think getting on this forum where 90% of drivers also think Travis us an asshole and *****ing as us is not helping anything. I think most of us would all like higher rates and regulation that at least gives us proper insurance. I don't speak for everyone but for the most part I think we can agree that Travis is screwing the taxi industry (which may lead to some good changes) AND most of the uber drivers. And just like you they're just trying to make a living. The most helpful thing would be for uber and taxi drivers to work together. I just don't know how to effect that change in thinking though.


----------



## thehappytypist

Hackenstein said:


> Oh, ok. So it's 'competition' to allow a lawbreaking bullshit tech company which claims it's not even in the transportation business to enable improperly insured cars and improperly checked cars and drivers to roam around undercutting cabs which must pay the real costs of doing business, like full commercial insurance, mandatory thorough tri yearly inspections, yearly drug testing, and paying off medallions because that is also part of legitimate regulation. Sure, let me sidestep all of it and I'll pop bottled water out of my ass all day too. Ridiculous.


You do realize that all of the drivers in NYC have to be TLC licensed and insured, right? Every driver who uses Uber has gone through the same process as any other black car operating there. That includes uberX and uberXL.

Handy link: http://www.driveubernyc.com/tlc-overview/


----------



## Montgomery

Hackenstein said:


> Oh, ok. So it's 'competition' to allow a lawbreaking bullshit tech company which claims it's not even in the transportation business to enable improperly insured cars and improperly checked cars and drivers to roam around undercutting cabs which must pay the real costs of doing business, like full commercial insurance, mandatory thorough tri yearly inspections, yearly drug testing, and paying off medallions because that is also part of legitimate regulation. Sure, let me sidestep all of it and I'll pop bottled water out of my ass all day too. Ridiculous.


Hummm, where to start? In NYC where you have your location set, drivers have to have their TLC license which includes yearly drug testing, and bg check with fingerprints performed by the TLC. Cars have to have TLC plates and registrations which includes full commercial insurance and TLC inspections. No different than livery cabs. It seems your anger should be directed at the livery cabs more so than Uber, or you are just highly misinformed as to how all this works. Again. just because you don't like something, it doesnt mean it's automatically illegal.

In any case I have my complaints about Uber like anyone else, but when you do, you are better off using facts and know what you are talking about. 
Otherwise, you won't credibly make whatever point it is you are trying to make.


----------



## Actionjax

Hackenstein said:


> Oh, ok. So it's 'competition' to allow a lawbreaking bullshit tech company which claims it's not even in the transportation business to enable improperly insured cars and improperly checked cars and drivers to roam around undercutting cabs which must pay the real costs of doing business, like full commercial insurance, mandatory thorough tri yearly inspections, yearly drug testing, and paying off medallions because that is also part of legitimate regulation. Sure, let me sidestep all of it and I'll pop bottled water out of my ass all day too. Ridiculous.


Yep that's what it is. Like some tech company called Apple creating iTunes and putting HMV and how many other stores out of business. Lets all blame the tech company for progress.

How did you checks go. 30 Cab drivers up here Failed Uber background checks. What does that tell you what our market here is like. So ya I'm happy with a little poke to our market.

And if you do poop bottled water out your ass then you would have one up on your Uber cars. They need to buy their water from a store. If they could poop it out they may be able to make a nice profit. (Not to mention I'm sure tips for the free show)


----------



## Hackenstein

thehappytypist said:


> You do realize that all of the drivers in NYC have to be TLC licensed and insured, right? Every driver who uses Uber has gone through the same process as any other black car operating there. That includes uberX and uberXL.
> 
> Handy link: http://www.driveubernyc.com/tlc-overview/


Yeah, I know. NYC is the rare exception. They were dragged kicking and screaming. But it's still using an app as a taximeter, which is illegal. It's still a virtual street hail, there's no mandatory time delay, it's a virtual street hail, illegal. Price gouging, while legit taxis cannot, by law. Illegal.

NYC aside, no one here will deny the vast majority of Uber cars are not properly insured. It only takes a few minutes of reading this forum or watching a youtube video by a driver to determine that.

How the **** is that allowed, hmm? That's no joke, no one is allowed to do that and stay in business, bus somehow 'Uber' is, because like rats they claim they're not in the transportation business and play around with legal loopholes as if it's a funny game.


----------



## Hackenstein

Montgomery said:


> Hummm, where to start? In NYC where you have your location set, drivers have to have their TLC license which includes yearly drug testing, and bg check with fingerprints performed by the TLC. Cars have to have TLC plates and registrations which includes full commercial insurance and TLC inspections. No different than livery cabs. It seems your anger should be directed at the livery cabs more so than Uber, or you are just highly misinformed as to how all this works. Again. just because you don't like something, it doesnt mean it's automatically illegal.
> 
> In any case I have my complaints about Uber like anyone else, but when you do, you are better off using facts and know what you are talking about.
> Otherwise, you won't credibly make whatever point it is you are trying to make.


I'm referring to Uber in general. I'm aware that they were forced against their will to utilize livery drivers with prior one year experience along with insurance requirements in NYC (supposedly).

But it's still a virtual hail, the app functions as a taximeter. It is only here because Chhabra let it in here then quit and got his payola.

And btw, it's siphoning liveries out of local neighborhoods, since app drivers respond to calls to other boroughs now.

Also, price gouging (surging) didn't exist when they were allowed in here. They slipped it in later but apparently the TLC is bought and did nothing.


----------



## Actionjax

Hackenstein said:


> Yeah, I know. NYC is the rare exception. They were dragged kicking and screaming. But it's still using an app as a taximeter, which is illegal. It's still a virtual street hail, there's no mandatory time delay, it's a virtual street hail, illegal. Price gouging, while legit taxis cannot, by law. Illegal.
> 
> NYC aside, no one here will deny the vast majority of Uber cars are not properly insured. It only takes a few minutes of reading this forum or watching a youtube video by a driver to determine that.
> 
> How the **** is that allowed, hmm? That's no joke, no one is allowed to do that and stay in business, bus somehow 'Uber' is, because like rats they claim they're not in the transportation business and play around with legal loopholes as if it's a funny game.


Do you have a point, or just a rant. I mean please continue...you are in the right place. I would suggest starting your own post for it. We need more of them.


----------



## Hackenstein

'We're not in the transportation business, we merely make all our money from the transportation business.'

Amazing.


----------



## Wil Mette

LEAFdriver said:


> John Doe.....Why are Chicagoland drivers not allowed to see their PAX's rating.....but everyone else can?


Press the little blue dot.


----------



## Hackenstein

Actionjax said:


> Do you have a point, or just a rant. I mean please continue...you are in the right place. I would suggest starting your own post for it. We need more of them.


My point is the American Dream is built through hard work and playing by the rules. Ayn Randians like Kalanick think it doesn't apply to them.


----------



## Actionjax

Hackenstein said:


> My point is the American Dream is built through hard work and playing by the rules. Ayn Randians like Kalanick think it doesn't apply to them.


I think you need to upgrade to "American Dream 2.0" It's now break the rules and the rich get rich standing on the shoulders of the workers. And only 5% of people can afford the upgrade. I suggest you grab your pitchfork.


----------



## Actionjax

Dam it...I said I would stop this...I feel a moderator coming on. I'm sorry mod...nothing to see here, moving back to the artic.


----------



## Wil Mette

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> "Pax can be banned however there is nothing to stop them from simply making a new account. I've never seen someone be banned however from discussions I think if there was some sort of court case adjudicating fault we might have done it. Neither your word nor even what you tell a police officer (and thus have entered into a police report) are unbiased accounts unless an officer saw something unfolding in front of him which I never saw."
> 
> This is exactly what I thought, everyone here who thinks rating a passenger a one or two thinks it means something, it doesn't.
> 
> I will never work for Uber, I say **** the OP, **** Uber, **** the people who work at the Long Island City office too !!
> 
> All that will be left as Uber drivers will be non english speaking Pakistani drivers, I love it


Can pax be banned from taxi companies?


----------



## Wil Mette

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> Low driver quality to equal low quality uber clientele.
> Water seeks it's own level.


How do you feel about the low quality clientele are leaving the taxi system?
You miss them don't you.


----------



## williamjohnson

Lidman said:


> * BOOOOOO!!!!!*





Hackenstein said:


> 'We're not in the transportation business, we merely make all our money from the transportation business.'
> 
> Amazing.


----------



## williamjohnson

how do i start a new thread?


----------



## cybertec69

Looks like the former uber CSR disappeared, he could not take the heat, just like all the rest of those diaper wearing college kids working at uber.


----------



## thehappytypist

Hackenstein said:


> Yeah, I know. NYC is the rare exception. They were dragged kicking and screaming. But it's still using an app as a taximeter, which is illegal. It's still a virtual street hail, there's no mandatory time delay, it's a virtual street hail, illegal. Price gouging, while legit taxis cannot, by law. Illegal.
> 
> NYC aside, no one here will deny the vast majority of Uber cars are not properly insured. It only takes a few minutes of reading this forum or watching a youtube video by a driver to determine that.
> 
> How the **** is that allowed, hmm? That's no joke, no one is allowed to do that and stay in business, bus somehow 'Uber' is, because like rats they claim they're not in the transportation business and play around with legal loopholes as if it's a funny game.


The app isn't a taximeter in the traditional sense, it isn't mechanical and that's how it manages to pass. We aren't even allowed to say "meter" in official communications. The fare is calculated by time spent between the time the driver begins the trip and then ends the trip. The distance is calculated using GPS tracking between those two points. The request still goes through a base. A ride can't be requested until the rider reviews and agrees to the increased rate when surge is going on. The insurance thing for other locations is truth though.

Uber lives and dies on its technicalities and loopholes.


----------



## Hackenstein

thehappytypist said:


> The app isn't a taximeter in the traditional sense, it isn't mechanical and that's how it manages to pass. We aren't even allowed to say "meter" in official communications. The fare is calculated by time spent between the time the driver begins the trip and then ends the trip. The distance is calculated using GPS tracking between those two points. The request still goes through a base. A ride can't be requested until the rider reviews and agrees to the increased rate when surge is going on. The insurance thing for other locations is truth though.
> 
> Uber lives and dies on its technicalities and loopholes.


Right, it's a taximeter. Which uses GPS to calculate the fare. This is what Chhabra got his bribe for, to mess with the rules and somehow claim it's not a taximeter.

As of today, NYC has a massive hole in the budget which was supposed to be filled by the sale of Medallions.

That's not going to happen, because this criminal bullshit has hurt the industry and created too much uncertainty. The major buyers backed out, no one is buying or selling, loans can't be made.

It's resulting in the proposal to add tolls to the East River bridges, and to institute 'congestion pricing' in midtown.

In other words, this is, in a real sense, on the verge of seriously harming NYC itself, and forcing everyone, not just cabs, to pay for Uber's bloodthirsty quest for money.


----------



## Txchick

Actionjax said:


> I think you are late to the party. It's not a Taxi. It's ride sharing and they are doing it. But it's always nice to welcome a new face to the board. If you have any questions for the illegals here we would be happy to share. Till then I suggest you work with your government to either modify the way a taxi operates or work on shutting Uber down. Both valid ways to spend your time.
> 
> BTW best taxi services I experienced was in NYC. Well ahead of other cities I have been too.


Uber is not a ride sharing form of transportation. The only difference between cab & Uber is TAXICAB is not plastered on the car with rates posted. Uber is a transportation company. Period!


----------



## Actionjax

Txchick said:


> Uber is not a ride sharing form of transportation. The only difference between cab & Uber is TAXICAB is not plastered on the car with rates posted. Uber is a transportation company. Period!


One other difference. Taxis can pick up whoever they want off the street. App hailing companies can't. That's a big difference right there from a financial perspective. From what I understand is limos can do the same thing.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> One other difference. Taxis can pick up whoever they want off the street. App hailing companies can't. That's a big difference right there from a financial perspective. From what I understand is limos can do the same thing.


Sure they can. And a lot do. When a heavy bar district lets out at 2 AM, it's far easier to take the guy who walks up to your window and asks for you take him home for cash, than it is to try and find the one person in the crowd who is tied to the app on your phone. This goes on a lot, and under the Uber radar.

Is it legal?.... absolutely NOT. But a lot of cities and states still have laws that make Uber's app hailing rides illegal too. And even in ones that have created laws to make it legal, Uber ignores the new laws (see Orlando).

This whole new Uber economy still has a long ways to go before one can even define what it is, let alone say it's not a taxi.


----------



## Txchick

Actionjax said:


> One other difference. Taxis can pick up whoever they want off the street. App hailing companies can't. That's a big difference right there from a financial perspective. From what I understand is limos can do the same thing.


Black cars (limos) can hail pax in Dallas like cabs.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> Sure they can. And a lot do. When a heavy bar district lets out at 2 AM, it's far easier to take the guy who walks up to your window and asks for you take him home for cash, than it is to try and find the one person in the crowd who is tied to the app on your phone. This goes on a lot, and under the Uber radar.
> 
> Is it legal?.... absolutely NOT. But a lot of cities and states still have laws that make Uber's app hailing rides illegal too. And even in ones that have created laws to make it legal, Uber ignores the new laws (see Orlando).
> 
> This whole new Uber economy still has a long ways to go before one can even define what it is, let alone say it's not a taxi.


What you are saying is anyone can do anything, and that's true. But around here there is a file line between doing Uber and being a bandit taxi that enforcement will step in on. We are not allows to take street hails. Its app only. And I wouldn't take that added risk.


----------



## Txchick

Actionjax said:


> What you are saying is anyone can do anything, and that's true. But around here there is a file line between doing Uber and being a bandit taxi that enforcement will step in on. We are not allows to take street hails. Its app only. And I wouldn't take that added risk.


The limos in Dallas that hail pax are legal & have registered with the city properly. Quite a bit of them own their own limos or black cars.


----------



## Andy1234

UberHammer said:


> You left out the ones who were happy making what they were making with customers happy paying what they were paying... until Uber changed the rates one day causing them to make half of what they were making before, while Uber tells them they're making more with lower rates because to Uber "make" means fares and not "profit". In fact, that's probably the biggest group here.


I guess I'm just tired of people attacking each other on here because they are mad at Uber/Travis. There is no reason to displace frustration. This CSR guy had nothing to gain by posting on here and whether we liked the information he passed along or not the attacks were not warranted. I guess the moral of the story here should be don't troll the messenger. Of course not all us attacked him, but enough to completely cut of the line of communication.

Despite the injustices that may have been handed down from Travis lets focus on helping those that are sticking it out and wish those that move on to new pursuits good luck.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Andy1234 said:


> I guess I'm just tired of people attacking each other on here because they are mad at Uber/Travis. There is no reason to displace frustration. This CSR guy had nothing to gain by posting on here and whether we liked the information he passed along or not the attacks were not warranted. I guess the moral of the story here should be don't troll the messenger. Of course not all us attacked him, but enough to completely cut of the line of communication.
> 
> Despite the injustices that may have been handed down from Travis lets focus on helping those that are sticking it out and wish those that move on to new pursuits good luck.


The general read on CSR feedback is that they are canned spam remitters who don't have much power or sway to do anything anyway and that Uber really only gives a shit about running to the IPO.

Not really helpful information in any case, and certainly no startling inside helpful information other than to "do as you're told, slave, and get back to work."


----------



## Andy1234

scrurbscrud said:


> The general read on CSR feedback is that they are canned spam remitters who don't have much power or sway to do anything anyway and that Uber really only gives a shit about running to the IPO.
> 
> Not really helpful information in any case, and certainly no startling inside helpful information other than to "do as you're told, slave, and get back to work."


There were a number of people that appreciated the information. For those that did not find the information new or insightful just let it be. Oh well it is a mute point now.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Andy1234 said:


> There were a number of people that appreciated the information. For those that did not find the information new or insightful just let it be. Oh well it is a mute point now.


What information did you find to be helpful?


----------



## cybertec69

Txchick said:


> Black cars (limos) can hail pax in Dallas like cabs.


Not here in nyc, that's a big ticket, and impound.


----------



## Andy1234

scrurbscrud said:


> What information did you find to be helpful?


I personally did not find the info new, but there were more than a few posts on this thread where users thanked this guy for his input. I did appreciate his attempt to share his experience though.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Andy1234 said:


> *I personally did not find the info new*,


*Nor did I. Value zero.*


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> What you are saying is anyone can do anything, and that's true. But around here there is a file line between doing Uber and being a bandit taxi that enforcement will step in on. We are not allows to take street hails. Its app only. And I wouldn't take that added risk.


Uber didn't invent the gypsie taxi... it just perfected it.


----------



## JGDenton

Andy1234 said:


> Escalate the Sh!t out of that. When I returned mine I got a credit on my pay statement for the week it was not in use and in-transit back to Uber.


How would I go about escalating this issue? I have tried to email Uber customer service but have gotten no response.


----------



## Uberdawg

Andy1234 said:


> Oh well it is a mute point now.


I will be mute on the point that it is a moot point now


----------



## Sydney Uber

thehappytypist said:


> It was great when the local CommOps managers were handling everything, then they started doing things from a national level and standardizing everything. They also aren't used to handling such a large pool of employees - the first few training groups in NYC were an experiment to see if they liked having CSRs handling tickets instead of just the managers doing it. It's still the best job I've ever had just because there's little to no phone work involved.





Actionjax said:


> I'm not keen on any company destroying another especially one so humble as the Taxi industry. And not really knowing your city dynamics I'm not going to try and understand the NYC Medallion system. But I do know how Taxi's work in my market and they have always been Expensive, rude, smelly, poor need of repair, and fraudulent at times. They need a good makeover. And I'm happy to see them have competition that is going to pressure them to straighten up their act. And guess what, it's starting to work a bit. They have a long way to go but if it wasn't for Uber they wouldn't take their heads out of their asses.
> 
> Illegal or not change is coming to a market that has regulations that were written when the innkeeper act said they could keep your horse as payment for a room. If Uber has changes the game I suggest that the industry try and change for the better, or find itself gone the way of the 8 track tape and blacksmiths.
> 
> The first question you need to ask is why are your customers passing on you who is right there to get an Uber. Then try and fix that. Believe it or not it's not price.


Plenty of horses out there need Blacksmiths. 8 track tape makes great party decorations! !


----------



## Sydney Uber

Montgomery said:


> I agree the term ridesharing is BS under Uber or Lyft. Just like Zipcar calling their service "Carsharing" when they started, rather than car rental on an hourly basis like it really was.


Ridesharing has been around for decades. A driver would ONLY accept a job if it was convenient to them, the driver set a cost per seat and if all agreed all would be good. There are dozens of true ridesharing websites offering these services.

Uber IS a ********** service. Uber Puts its drivers under huge financial challenges, because they dont set the rates, they dont get enough information to decide if the job is profitable, they dont have access to street hails and UBER tries its best to stop all tipping.

UBER gets its 20% regardless of the losses that a driver takes in chasing and carrying out a booking.


----------



## Andy1234

Uberdawg said:


> I will be mute on the point that it is a moot point now


----------



## john djjjoe

How is this thread still going? Came back on to try and match up a few PMs I had to questions in the thread and don't even know where to look back. The only immediate response that comes to mind (having skimmed lightly) is that I was not *caught* and dragged down to the dungeon, although I know one person at the office who I speak with still heard about this thread and someone higher up having mentioned checking to see if it was anyone in the office. 

Have had a few great conversations via PM, am sorry for the wait to those I haven't yet managed to reply to but will get there.


----------



## Denouber

john djjjoe said:


> How is this thread still going? Came back on to try and match up a few PMs I had to questions in the thread and don't even know where to look back. The only immediate response that comes to mind (having skimmed lightly) is that I was not *caught* and dragged down to the dungeon, although I know one person at the office who I speak with still heard about this thread and someone higher up having mentioned checking to see if it was anyone in the office.
> 
> Have had a few great conversations via PM, am sorry for the wait to those I haven't yet managed to reply to but will get there.


Hey Joe Doe I think Uber BS affected your life!!!


----------



## scrurbscrud

john djjjoe said:


> How is this thread still going? Came back on to try and match up a few PMs I had to questions in the thread and don't even know where to look back. The only immediate response that comes to mind (having skimmed lightly) is that I was not *caught* and dragged down to the dungeon, *although I know one person at the office who I speak with still heard about this thread and someone higher up having mentioned checking to see if it was anyone in the office. *
> 
> Have had a few great conversations via PM, am sorry for the wait to those I haven't yet managed to reply to but will get there.


Now that was interesting.


----------



## Denouber

No way Joe PM !!


----------



## john djjjoe

jeerar said:


> I haven't driven for 2 weeks and I just got 2 seperate emails about:
> 
> 1) that I started and ended a trip before a pax got in the car, and
> 
> 2) I didn't gave the right attitude.
> 
> My response to #1 was "thanks for the insight. I'll make sure to wait no longer than 5 mins for any pax from now on. "
> 
> My response to #2 was "can you tell me when this criticism was given because in the last four weeks I have been forced to give rides to dirty, smelly, rude and unreasonably demanding pax. I believe I should have some say in this. The quality of pax has gotten so bad that I have stopped driving in the last 2 weeks."
> 
> Wtf is this crap? My rating is still 4.86. A $$ holes.


Go drive a yellow cab. Your union will express your views as long as you agree with leadership.



uberdriver123 said:


> I also just got two emails:
> Rider complaint -- solicited payment
> Rider complaint --General smell
> 
> I know my car smells good and I never solicited cash payment or even asked for tips. I am wondering if this was from an asshole rider who just didn't like me for some reason and tried to cause trouble for me or just Uber sending it randomly?


Riders often make mistakes discovered on escalation- if you push it enough and get the right person you might get someone willing to do some research and see what rides were taken before/after you and how they compare (CSR may then not count the feedback against you if they're in a good mood). So many ratings (especially when they come an hour/etc... later are people who either forgot your car or are confusing you with another ride they may have had). Usually easy to tell/give some leeway by looking at their ride history around you.



upnetuser said:


> I just got 2 emails as well, but different stuff. Wonder if they ****ed up their email system again. Maybe it's like the deactivated emails two weeks ago.
> 
> I do love how they don't list a trip number or any info for you. Thanks for that insight with the vague I did something wrong according to some ******** passenger.


Never forget - you do something wrong according to every passenger. .



PTB said:


> join the club, I also just received 2 emails from Uber this evening.
> 1) attitude
> 2) bad route
> 
> we must have picked up the same attitude pax, as your description on #2 rings a bell for me from a few days ago.
> bad route...followed google maps...later i noticed could have taken a better route...my bad
> 
> take it in stride, move on...


Did you follow the route? Have noticed this complaint especially when drivers miss a turn/etc... and come close but maybe one/two blocks more than the original would have been (could be 5-10 minutes in Manhattan obviously).



observer said:


> Or maybe they are starting a paper trail on purpose to deactivate drivers.


It isn't kept on paper  that much content would be expensive to print and store.



thehappytypist said:


> Yup. They've been making things more standard, including the responses. We can personalize if we want to (and some responses are just completely free-handed) although I've been hearing about some CSRs being threatened with termination if they don't stick with the responses and not modify them. I don't even know what's going on there, my team has always been encouraged to personalize.


On auditing lower level CSRs, particularlly with expansion and the move to include overseas subcontractors allowing leeway has at times made us look unprofessional (to be diplomatic about it). We want everyone to have the same standard, decent, respectable experience even if that means many people don't get the *awesome* personalized feedback they might otherwise (as that would entail some people screwing things up on their own initiative).



UberHammer said:


> As drivers, we are told to politely decline passengers who request a destination outside of the city's Uber coverage that we are not comfortable driving to. However, if the customer complains about a driver who made such a choice, Uber threatens to deactivate the driver if they continue doing that.
> 
> I see a lot of consistency between Uber's contempt for its drivers and its contempt for its CSRs. It's a company that has contempt for all its workers. It's a tone set by Travis Kalanick himself. He holds the world's entire population in contempt. He's the complete opposite of a people person. He's great at engineering the flow of digital files, but he's completely out of touch with people and treats them as such.
> 
> Welcome to our nightmare.


Have to say, much of the hate at Travis is underinformed (and akin to how people idolize Steve Jobs because he invented the iPod which they love). Don't get me wrong, Jobs was a visionary but he was also against charity, kind of a @#$*) in his day-to-day, etc... Travis is brilliant and hardworking to the point that it affects his social/people skills. He doesn't look beyond the numbers and his goals for the firm which all equity holders love. It is less great for those who weren't lucky enough to get in sufficiently early to end up in corporate/managing the subcontractors we work with.



UberHammer said:


> I also love the job of driving with no boss.
> 
> I'm not going to do it for a guy who wants me to do it for $5 an hour though.


So don't. Deactivate your app. Delete it. We love the attitude where you are upfront with your price but it is wrong to imply that we are asking you to drive against your own self interest. We tell you what you'll get paid and it's your call whether or not you drive.



Nate_LA said:


> Hello John... thanks for taking the time.
> 
> I was wondering... I have a couple of free $30 rides on my customer side of things. Can I use them on myself as a driver? Meaning.. say I am going out with my wife. Can I trun on both apps... request a car... thus get myself to have the ping since I am the closest. Then take the ride and still get paid on it?


No problem. You definitely can do that however it is important to note that the algorithms were updated quickly after guarantee cards first started going out years ago to look for this type of behavior and suspend/clawback anything not paid out. At this point with how fast the system would catch on (including time to withdraw) you'd make more money mining bitcoin than you would trying this.



Actionjax said:


> I'm going out Saturday morning 6AM till 12PM to if I can loose some money on doing Uber. I'm sure it will be quite and we can see what my per hour rate will be after all is said and done. I'm going to throw down about $7 even with my rates. And a lot of down time.


How did that end up?



UberHammer said:


> As long as you're not driving around burning deadhead miles, I doubt you'll lose money at your rates. But yes, being slow won't make much either.


***THIS A MILLION TIMES. THIS IS THE POINT OF UBER.

Some people like driving. I do just for fun/to relax. The system scales well if people drive full time but it is not in any way meant to press people into full time. At the point you are doing that you are taking a significant risk to say the least.



Hackenstein said:


> I have a question. What ****ing right does Uber have to do virtual street hails in NYC. That right is reserved by law to yellow cabs. What right do you have to price gouge while real cabs cannot. I know... Chhabra approved all of it before he got paid for his soul by Kalanick. What an awesome company, screwing with people who work one of the hardest jobs out there, because some psychopath silicon valley shithead needs another couple Billion in his pocket.


I like you. Please keep going.

**note, this post continued in next post due to character limit


----------



## john djjjoe

**continuation follows



Hackenstein said:


> Really, what the **** is 'ride sharing.' A lovely meaningless term. It's people 'sharing' an illegal service via a phone app. With the added charm of 'legal' price gouging to allow illegal improperly insured cars undercut legitimate taxis when they're not gouging. Is Uber still making the Australian authorities chase them around? What a disgusting company, ignore all the laws, bribe their way into markets, and paint themselves as the underdog. I drive a cab in NYC, I'm certainly not in any sort of 'cartel.' I do work hard though and make an honest living. Uber is intent on destroying that, the CEO literally said so. Personally, I'd say it's blatantly obvious that he is the asshole, not 'taxi.'


Thanks! You are definitely right in one respect- "ride sharing" is a bullshit term made up in an effort to make unlicensed driving (in non-NYC markets at least) seem legitimate. Given that you are referring to NYC TLC licensing is required on all levels to be NYC (Manhattan) based for both UberX AND UberBlack (and obviously the cab hail brings a yellow). In NYC at least it really isn't ride "sharing" though so your point seems moot (aside from your obvious need to vent about your medallion's value plummeting).



Montgomery said:


> I agree the term ridesharing is BS under Uber or Lyft. Just like Zipcar calling their service "Carsharing" when they started, rather than car rental on an hourly basis like it really was.


*clap* Call it like it is boys.



Hackenstein said:


> Oh, ok. So it's 'competition' to allow a lawbreaking bullshit tech company which claims it's not even in the transportation business to enable improperly insured cars and improperly checked cars and drivers to roam around undercutting cabs which must pay the real costs of doing business, like full commercial insurance, mandatory thorough tri yearly inspections, yearly drug testing, and paying off medallions because that is also part of legitimate regulation. Sure, let me sidestep all of it and I'll pop bottled water out of my ass all day too. Ridiculous.


Oh you're back! Remember- in NYC all drivers are TLC licensed. Not quite yellow cabs but it isn't the free for all you're portraying it as.



Hackenstein said:


> 'We're not in the transportation business, we merely make all our money from the transportation business.'
> 
> Amazing.


American Express doesn't seem to be a retail company but I'm pretty sure they only make money when people buy things at stores.



scrurbscrud said:


> What information did you find to be helpful?


Nothing I say is relevant, this is just the top post in the past month because of all the funny tangents.



Andy1234 said:


> I personally did not find the info new, but there were more than a few posts on this thread where users thanked this guy for his input. I did appreciate his attempt to share his experience though.


THANK YOU. This is what I was hoping for, the quiet (hopefully) majority whose voice is crowded out by the complaints.



scrurbscrud said:


> *Nor did I. Value zero.*


Negative actually. Time is money remember? You took at least a few seconds to read all of this *@#($.



Sydney Uber said:


> Ridesharing has been around for decades. A driver would ONLY accept a job if it was convenient to them, the driver set a cost per seat and if all agreed all would be good. There are dozens of true ridesharing websites offering these services.
> 
> Uber IS a ********** service. Uber Puts its drivers under huge financial challenges, because they dont set the rates, they dont get enough information to decide if the job is profitable, they dont have access to street hails and UBER tries its best to stop all tipping.
> 
> UBER gets its 20% regardless of the losses that a driver takes in chasing and carrying out a booking.


*I really hope if anyone learns anything from this post it will be what you described, but why that is both 1) positive from our perspective and 2) guarantees you will only complain more over time. The logic follows. If it is unclear please mention where and I will make a point of prioritizing this over PMs because it is the only thing I have not seen anyone notice that (in my opinion at least) is not "zero value" which I might be able to contribute here*

Uber pushes volume. Uber makes a set percentage on each trip. Uber's goal is to make the overall transaction volume of rides paid for through the system increase because the firm's net income is a function of that. (For the sake of making the math easy and discussion please assume credit card fees are a flat percentage to Uber and there are no other fees such as chargebacks/merchant/etc...); Uber is equally profitable processing one transaction for ten dollars and ten transactions for one dollar, however there is an expectation that higher numbers of rides will lead to higher income due to a greater incidence of rides whose cost deviates from the mean (remember, Uber's cut is related to the absolute transaction volume, not the percentage of it which you take home).

THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM YOUR GOAL. Uber has some overhead but (once again for the sake of conversation) assume it is zero; corporate in NYC has ~50 staff at the moment and everyone else is basically a subcontractor. In light of fundraising success, assume Uber's overhead costs are taken care of but ultimately they are fixed even when taken into consideration because they scale beautifully- the computers will match/process one thousand rides just as easily as matching/processing a single ride. Your gas/depreciation/value of your time do not scale; your gas cost increases in a linear relationship to the value of your time spent and while depreciation is ultimately logarithmic, for new/lightly used cars it can be assumed to be linear as well as soon as the car is off the lot.

This difference is why you have a problem with more rides for less money and Uber loves it. We want more transactions because it's more likely we'll have more high priced transactions which (in relative terms) increases revenue even faster. As a driver, naturally, you want the opposite. You want fewer, higher priced fares.

Uber management/equity holders/investors, it follows, do not want you to make more money from fewer rides with higher fares. We want you to make more short trips which may waste your time/money/wear and tear but (from a financial perspective) we don't care because it maximizes the value of what we got for signing onto this company early/putting a lot of faith in Travis from (almost) day 1. I do sympathize with those of you who feel abused/misled but at the end of the day I don't understand why you do it if it is not making you money. If you just like coming on here to vent, that's great and I think it's hilarious because of how executive management responds (now behind closed doors obviously). I don't understand why you do it if you are genuinely getting *ripped off* or whatever though. I would love if my new firm just decided to pay me more than I was willing to work for and they may be willing to do so, but if I'm not pushing them and forcing them to pay me more (the alternative being that they forego my labor and productivity) I have no justification to ***** about what I'm getting paid. Uber corporate management has been great in NYC (especially for those of us who have been there since opening the NYC base) but they ultimately weren't willing to match the alternative I got and, it follows, they don't get my work or to make money from me.

If you as a driver are getting ripped off or a bad deal, don't drive Uber. Advertise on Craigslist, hand out business cards, do any one of a number of things to get your name out there. That said, if you would not be able to find your passenger without Uber and, as a result, your alternative to driving as a partner is not to make an income, don't complain about Uber. Complain about the government/education system/the actual issues which caused you to be in the predicament where your best alternative is to drive for Uber. In the event this isn't the case (where your best alternative is something other than driving for Uber), stop. It is bad for everyone (corporate as well as drivers) when you experience failure or don't do well financially. If you can't do basic cashflow modeling to figure out whether your driving with Uber is going to pay for your car payments to Santander, you shouldn't be running your own business (in that case you should be an employee of a firm that pays you to drive or that at least handles all of the work involved in actually running a business).

Hope this is constructive and am interested in replies. Trolls please don't respond (aside from Hackenstein who is my favorite poster on this forum).


----------



## scrurbscrud

"Negative actually. Time is money remember? You took at least a few seconds to read all of this *@#($."

Actually your return has produced a couple of great gems.

This being a classic!

*"Go drive a yellow cab. Your union will express your views as long as you agree with leadership.*"

Priceless.


----------



## UberHammer

john djjjoe said:


> Have to say, much of the hate at Travis is underinformed (and akin to how people idolize Steve Jobs because he invented the iPod which they love). Don't get me wrong, Jobs was a visionary but he was also against charity, kind of a @#$*) in his day-to-day, etc... Travis is brilliant and hardworking to the point that *it affects his social/people skills*. He doesn't look beyond the numbers and his goals for the firm which all equity holders love. It is less great for those who weren't lucky enough to get in sufficiently early to end up in corporate/managing the subcontractors we work with.


Or his mind not being wired for social/people skills is why he is so brilliant and hard working. A lot of high functioning autistics are like this. Mark Zuckerberg is a good example. A great technical career, with a pile of exploited people left behind. Travis' number of exploited people is putting Mark's to shame!


----------



## UberHammer

john djjjoe said:


> So don't.


I don't. Wow, you're so smart!


----------



## Hackenstein

john djjjoe said:


> **continuation follows
> 
> Thanks! You are definitely right in one respect- "ride sharing" is a bullshit term made up in an effort to make unlicensed driving (in non-NYC markets at least) seem legitimate. Given that you are referring to NYC TLC licensing is required on all levels to be NYC (Manhattan) based for both UberX AND UberBlack (and obviously the cab hail brings a yellow). In NYC at least it really isn't ride "sharing" though so your point seems moot (aside from your obvious need to vent about your medallion's value plummeting).
> 
> *clap* Call it like it is boys.
> 
> Oh you're back! Remember- in NYC all drivers are TLC licensed. Not quite yellow cabs but it isn't the free for all you're portraying it as.
> 
> American Express doesn't seem to be a retail company but I'm pretty sure they only make money when people buy things at stores.
> 
> Nothing I say is relevant, this is just the top post in the past month because of all the funny tangents.
> 
> THANK YOU. This is what I was hoping for, the quiet (hopefully) majority whose voice is crowded out by the complaints.
> 
> Negative actually. Time is money remember? You took at least a few seconds to read all of this *@#($.
> 
> *I really hope if anyone learns anything from this post it will be what you described, but why that is both 1) positive from our perspective and 2) guarantees you will only complain more over time. The logic follows. If it is unclear please mention where and I will make a point of prioritizing this over PMs because it is the only thing I have not seen anyone notice that (in my opinion at least) is not "zero value" which I might be able to contribute here*
> 
> Uber pushes volume. Uber makes a set percentage on each trip. Uber's goal is to make the overall transaction volume of rides paid for through the system increase because the firm's net income is a function of that. (For the sake of making the math easy and discussion please assume credit card fees are a flat percentage to Uber and there are no other fees such as chargebacks/merchant/etc...); Uber is equally profitable processing one transaction for ten dollars and ten transactions for one dollar, however there is an expectation that higher numbers of rides will lead to higher income due to a greater incidence of rides whose cost deviates from the mean (remember, Uber's cut is related to the absolute transaction volume, not the percentage of it which you take home).
> 
> THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM YOUR GOAL. Uber has some overhead but (once again for the sake of conversation) assume it is zero; corporate in NYC has ~50 staff at the moment and everyone else is basically a subcontractor. In light of fundraising success, assume Uber's overhead costs are taken care of but ultimately they are fixed even when taken into consideration because they scale beautifully- the computers will match/process one thousand rides just as easily as matching/processing a single ride. Your gas/depreciation/value of your time do not scale; your gas cost increases in a linear relationship to the value of your time spent and while depreciation is ultimately logarithmic, for new/lightly used cars it can be assumed to be linear as well as soon as the car is off the lot.
> 
> This difference is why you have a problem with more rides for less money and Uber loves it. We want more transactions because it's more likely we'll have more high priced transactions which (in relative terms) increases revenue even faster. As a driver, naturally, you want the opposite. You want fewer, higher priced fares.
> 
> Uber management/equity holders/investors, it follows, do not want you to make more money from fewer rides with higher fares. We want you to make more short trips which may waste your time/money/wear and tear but (from a financial perspective) we don't care because it maximizes the value of what we got for signing onto this company early/putting a lot of faith in Travis from (almost) day 1. I do sympathize with those of you who feel abused/misled but at the end of the day I don't understand why you do it if it is not making you money. If you just like coming on here to vent, that's great and I think it's hilarious because of how executive management responds (now behind closed doors obviously). I don't understand why you do it if you are genuinely getting *ripped off* or whatever though. I would love if my new firm just decided to pay me more than I was willing to work for and they may be willing to do so, but if I'm not pushing them and forcing them to pay me more (the alternative being that they forego my labor and productivity) I have no justification to ***** about what I'm getting paid. Uber corporate management has been great in NYC (especially for those of us who have been there since opening the NYC base) but they ultimately weren't willing to match the alternative I got and, it follows, they don't get my work or to make money from me.
> 
> If you as a driver are getting ripped off or a bad deal, don't drive Uber. Advertise on Craigslist, hand out business cards, do any one of a number of things to get your name out there. That said, if you would not be able to find your passenger without Uber and, as a result, your alternative to driving as a partner is not to make an income, don't complain about Uber. Complain about the government/education system/the actual issues which caused you to be in the predicament where your best alternative is to drive for Uber. In the event this isn't the case (where your best alternative is something other than driving for Uber), stop. It is bad for everyone (corporate as well as drivers) when you experience failure or don't do well financially. If you can't do basic cashflow modeling to figure out whether your driving with Uber is going to pay for your car payments to Santander, you shouldn't be running your own business (in that case you should be an employee of a firm that pays you to drive or that at least handles all of the work involved in actually running a business).
> 
> Hope this is constructive and am interested in replies. Trolls please don't respond (aside from Hackenstein who is my favorite poster on this forum).


The only reason 'Uber' is operating in NYC is because Ashwani Chhabra was bribed to distort the regulations and allow a phone app to be used as a taximeter.

It's completely illegal, and Uber is doing serious harm to NYC's budget. Not taxis, the entire City budget.

I don't own a Medallion btw, but it's good to know that a bloviating fool such as yourself knows next to nothing about the industry.


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberHammer said:


> I don't. Wow, you're so smart!


Yeah, we got that one many times huh? If you don't like it, we can deactivate your account for you if you request it.

Oh yeah? How bout you go **** yerself?


----------



## scrurbscrud

Hackenstein said:


> The only reason 'Uber' is operating in NYC is because Ashwani Chhabra was bribed to distort the regulations and allow a phone app to be used as a taximeter.


I bet the horse carriage drivers said the same things about your metered motor car. You think the transportation world is or has to be run only by a taxi meter? lol


> It's completely illegal, and Uber is doing serious harm to NYC's budget. Not taxis, the entire City budget.
> 
> I don't own a Medallion btw, but it's good to know that a bloviating fool such as yourself knows next to nothing about the industry.


It would appear that the entire world's cab industry was hit by Vulture Capitalism at it's finest.


----------



## Hackenstein

scrurbscrud said:


> I bet the carriage drivers said the same things about your metered motor car. You think the world is run by a taxi meter? lol
> 
> It would appear that the entire world's cab industry was hit by Vulture Capitalism at it's finest.


I'll take the first part as sarcasm. The second part is precisely right.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Hackenstein said:


> I'll take the first part as sarcasm. The second part is precisely right.


Personally your industry has been shit for service for a long long time. At least now I can actually get a ride when I want to get one, and quickly, and CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP.

Cab FAIL followed by slow motion train wreck of the industry. Put out of biz by hundreds of thousands of the starving unemployed.


----------



## UberHammer

scrurbscrud said:


> Yeah, we got that one many times huh? If you don't like it, we can deactivate your account for you if you request it.
> 
> Oh yeah? How bout you go **** yerself?


"If you don't like it, then quit" has been uttered from the lips of every man and woman in history who has ever exploited another human being.


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberHammer said:


> "If you don't like it, then quit" has been uttered from the lips of every man and woman in history who has ever exploited another human being.


As has **** off. Or in our case, Uber off.


----------



## Hackenstein

scrurbscrud said:


> Personally your industry has been shit for service for a long long time. At least now I can actually get a ride when I want to get one, and quickly, and CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP.
> 
> Cab FAIL followed by slow motion train wreck of the industry. Put out of biz by hundreds of thousands of the starving unemployed.


Actually, the NYC taxi system is extraordinarily good, the cars are in excellent shape, and everything is properly regulated.

You work for a company which right now is enabling and encouraging thousands of drivers to do business without proper commercial insurance.

That fact alone sinks every anti-taxi argument.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Hackenstein said:


> Actually, the NYC taxi system is extraordinarily good, the cars are in excellent shape, and everything is properly regulated.
> 
> You work for a company which right now is enabling and encouraging thousands of drivers to do business without proper commercial insurance.
> 
> That fact alone sinks every anti-taxi argument.


That ain't Uber's fault. It's just an example of government regulators who don't know their asses from a hole in the ground, massive unemployment and financial desperation looking for a place to land.


----------



## Hackenstein

scrurbscrud said:


> That ain't Uber's fault. It's just an example of government regulators who don't know their asses from a hole in the ground, massive unemployment and financial desperation looking for a place to land.


It's 100% Uber's fault.

'Governments' require real commercial insurance for damn good reason.

What massive unemployment are you referring to? Yellow cabs? It's been a steady reliable job for around 80 years.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Hackenstein said:


> It's 100% Uber's fault.
> 
> 'Governments' require real commercial insurance for damn good reason.


I agree, but that requirement didn't stop them in NYC did it?



> What massive unemployment are you referring to? Yellow cabs? It's been a steady reliable job for around 80 years.


I can only imagine how much hurt Uber NYC has put on you guys. You have my sympathy.


----------



## Hackenstein

scrurbscrud said:


> I agree, but that requirement didn't stop them in NYC did it?
> 
> I can only imagine how much hurt Uber NYC has put on you guys. You have my sympathy.


Nope, apparently they can bribe anyone.

Pretty amazing that you support that. It does seem to be the Uber ethos.


----------



## Actionjax

john djjjoe said:


> How did that end up?


Better than expected. Just over $12 per hour clear. But you needed to be smart on the expense side of things. No driving around. Always drop and wait. Also there were an excess of much longer trips that helped.

Like I said better than expected.

I have the details in other posts if you care to read them.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Hackenstein said:


> Nope, apparently they can bribe anyone.
> 
> Pretty amazing that you support that. It does seem to be the Uber ethos.


Apparently they've bribed most of the major cities in the U.S. as well? Oh, excuse me, they are campaign contributions donchaknow?

All entirely legal and above board too. Allowing cab services everywhere to get flat hammered.


----------



## UberBlackPr1nce

Hackenstein said:


> Actually, the NYC taxi system is extraordinarily good, the cars are in excellent shape, and everything is properly regulated.
> 
> You work for a company which right now is enabling and encouraging thousands of drivers to do business without proper commercial insurance.
> 
> That fact alone sinks every anti-taxi argument.


If the taxi industry is doing well, why are you complaining about uber?
Also Why do you care so much about drivers not having commercial insurances? If they want to destroy their cars whats it to you?


----------



## Hackenstein

scrurbscrud said:


> Apparently they've bribed most of the major cities in the U.S. as well? Oh, excuse me, they are campaign contributions donchaknow?
> 
> All entirely legal and above board too. Allowing cab services everywhere to get flat hammered.


Any idea how many places Uber has decided to start operations, ignoring insurance requirements etc, forcing municipalities to sue them, issue cease and desist orders? Or chase them around, like in Australia?

Any idea how many places they've been banned outright? Legal and above board you must be a comedian.


----------



## Hackenstein

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> If the taxi industry is doing well, why are you complaining about uber?
> Also Why do you care so much about drivers not having commercial insurances? If they want to destroy their cars whats it to you?


Because it's illegal unfair competition, period. Because we pay the real costs of doing business.

Commercial insurance protects passengers as well, hun. And please spare me the Uber umbrella policy which is meaningless if your insurer finds out what youre doing and cancels your policy.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Hackenstein said:


> Any idea how many places Uber has decided to start operations, ignoring insurance requirements etc, forcing municipalities to sue them, issue cease and desist orders? Or chase them around, like in Australia?
> 
> Any idea how many places they've been banned outright? Legal and above board you must be a comedian.


Yet there are still drivers drivers everywhere. Even when they've been told to stop in most of these places they're still driving.


----------



## Hackenstein

scrurbscrud said:


> Yet there are still drivers drivers everywhere. Even when they've been told to stop in most of these places they're still driving.


That's correct. Uber enables 100% of it.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Hackenstein said:


> That's correct. Uber enables 100% of it.


Seriously though how much money has Uber picked out of your personal pocket? That's really the only metric that matters.


----------



## Hackenstein

scrurbscrud said:


> Seriously though how much money has Uber picked out of your personal pocket? That's really the only metric that matters.


I've seen a drop but I'm still making money.

The bigger picture is the uncertainty has prevented the City from being able to sell Medallions which is costing the city tens of Millions of dollars.

Medallion transfers, stamp tax also contribute to the city budget. That's what this is really about, vulture capitalists sucking the value out and destroying everything in their path.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Hackenstein said:


> I've seen a drop but I'm still making money.


Define drop. 20%? 30%

Even UberX std rate drivers think they are still making money at 65 cents per mile.



> The bigger picture is the uncertainty has prevented the City from being able to sell Medallions which is costing the city tens of Millions of dollars.
> 
> Medallion transfers, stamp tax also contribute to the city budget. That's what this is really about, vulture capitalists sucking the value out and destroying everything in their path.


I'm not a medallion supporter. Tough shit for NYC on that count. Over regulated bloat.


----------



## Hackenstein

scrurbscrud said:


> Define drop. 20%? 30%
> 
> Even UberX std rate drivers think they are still making money at 65 cents per mile.
> 
> I'm not a medallion supporter. Tough shit for NYC on that count. Over regulated bloat.


1% is too much to give up to illegal gypsy cabs which are permitted to price gouge.

Do yourself a favor and read the history of Medallions. It is not over regulated, that's just Uber bullshit spin to paint themselves as the underdog.

The way Uber keeps slashing their rates is one aspect of what Medallions and a set fare actually prevent. It makes it a viable job for drivers and prevents over saturation.


----------



## Andy1234

Hackenstein said:


> Because it's illegal unfair competition, period. Because we pay the real costs of doing business.
> 
> Commercial insurance protects passengers as well, hun. And please spare me the Uber umbrella policy which is meaningless if your insurer finds out what youre doing and cancels your policy.


Just out of curiosity... What do you think of Uber drivers in markets such as Virginia and DC? Where permanent legislation is in place specifically allowing the operations of Uber and where drivers have access to commercial insurance designed for ridesharing services and is primary to Uber's excess commercial policy? Are we still unfair competition?


----------



## Hackenstein

Andy1234 said:


> Just out of curiosity... What do you think of Uber drivers in markets such as Virginia and DC? Where permanent legislation is in place specifically allowing the operations of Uber and where drivers have access to commercial insurance designed for ridesharing services and is primary to Uber's excess commercial policy? Are we still unfair competition?


I don't honestly know anything about DC or Virginia, and NYC is pretty unique.

Obviously what you're saying is a a good thing. What I don't know is how it effects the overall market regarding driver saturation.

That is imo perhaps the main issue here. It's just not ok to toss as many cars as one wants into any given market. That is what limiting Medallion numbers prevents.


----------



## Andy1234

Hackenstein said:


> I don't honestly know anything about DC or Virginia, and NYC is pretty unique.
> 
> Obviously what you're saying is a a good thing. What I don't know is how it effects the overall market regarding driver saturation.
> 
> That is imo perhaps the main issue here. It's just not ok to toss as many cars as one wants into any given market. That is what limiting Medallion numbers prevents.


Yeah no medallions here in VA. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## observer

Hackenstein said:


> I've seen a drop but I'm still making money.
> 
> The bigger picture is the uncertainty has prevented the City from being able to sell Medallions which is costing the city tens of Millions of dollars.
> 
> Medallion transfers, stamp tax also contribute to the city budget. That's what this is really about, vulture capitalists sucking the value out and destroying everything in their path.


The bad thing is Ubers money doesn't stay in NYC, New York state or even in the United States, it is sent offshore to avoid paying taxes.

http://48hills.org/2014/07/10/ubers...-costs-government-millions/#permanently-moved


----------



## Hackenstein

observer said:


> The bad thing is Ubers money doesn't stay in NYC, New York state or even in the United States, it is sent offshore to avoid paying taxes.
> 
> http://48hills.org/2014/07/10/ubers...-costs-government-millions/#permanently-moved


Thank you for this link. I've read that they offshore their money, but didn't know if was accurate.

This is no joke.


----------



## Andy1234

observer said:


> The bad thing is Ubers money doesn't stay in NYC, New York state or even in the United States, it is sent offshore to avoid paying taxes.
> 
> http://48hills.org/2014/07/10/ubers...-costs-government-millions/#permanently-moved


This certainly didn't surprise me. All Multinational Corporations do this same thing. Even The Ford Motor company that churned out millions of those lovely crown vic cabs does employs tax avoidance strategies.


----------



## Sydney Uber

john djjjoe said:


> **continuation follows
> 
> Thanks! You are definitely right in one respect- "ride sharing" is a bullshit term made up in an effort to make unlicensed driving (in non-NYC markets at least) seem legitimate. Given that you are referring to NYC TLC licensing is required on all levels to be NYC (Manhattan) based for both UberX AND UberBlack (and obviously the cab hail brings a yellow). In NYC at least it really isn't ride "sharing" though so your point seems moot (aside from your obvious need to vent about your medallion's value plummeting).
> 
> *clap* Call it like it is boys.
> 
> Oh you're back! Remember- in NYC all drivers are TLC licensed. Not quite yellow cabs but it isn't the free for all you're portraying it as.
> 
> American Express doesn't seem to be a retail company but I'm pretty sure they only make money when people buy things at stores.
> 
> Nothing I say is relevant, this is just the top post in the past month because of all the funny tangents.
> 
> THANK YOU. This is what I was hoping for, the quiet (hopefully) majority whose voice is crowded out by the complaints.
> 
> Negative actually. Time is money remember? You took at least a few seconds to read all of this *@#($.
> 
> *I really hope if anyone learns anything from this post it will be what you described, but why that is both 1) positive from our perspective and 2) guarantees you will only complain more over time. The logic follows. If it is unclear please mention where and I will make a point of prioritizing this over PMs because it is the only thing I have not seen anyone notice that (in my opinion at least) is not "zero value" which I might be able to contribute here*
> 
> Uber pushes volume. Uber makes a set percentage on each trip. Uber's goal is to make the overall transaction volume of rides paid for through the system increase because the firm's net income is a function of that. (For the sake of making the math easy and discussion please assume credit card fees are a flat percentage to Uber and there are no other fees such as chargebacks/merchant/etc...); Uber is equally profitable processing one transaction for ten dollars and ten transactions for one dollar, however there is an expectation that higher numbers of rides will lead to higher income due to a greater incidence of rides whose cost deviates from the mean (remember, Uber's cut is related to the absolute transaction volume, not the percentage of it which you take home).
> 
> THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM YOUR GOAL. Uber has some overhead but (once again for the sake of conversation) assume it is zero; corporate in NYC has ~50 staff at the moment and everyone else is basically a subcontractor. In light of fundraising success, assume Uber's overhead costs are taken care of but ultimately they are fixed even when taken into consideration because they scale beautifully- the computers will match/process one thousand rides just as easily as matching/processing a single ride. Your gas/depreciation/value of your time do not scale; your gas cost increases in a linear relationship to the value of your time spent and while depreciation is ultimately logarithmic, for new/lightly used cars it can be assumed to be linear as well as soon as the car is off the lot.
> 
> This difference is why you have a problem with more rides for less money and Uber loves it. We want more transactions because it's more likely we'll have more high priced transactions which (in relative terms) increases revenue even faster. As a driver, naturally, you want the opposite. You want fewer, higher priced fares.
> 
> Uber management/equity holders/investors, it follows, do not want you to make more money from fewer rides with higher fares. We want you to make more short trips which may waste your time/money/wear and tear but (from a financial perspective) we don't care because it maximizes the value of what we got for signing onto this company early/putting a lot of faith in Travis from (almost) day 1. I do sympathize with those of you who feel abused/misled but at the end of the day I don't understand why you do it if it is not making you money. If you just like coming on here to vent, that's great and I think it's hilarious because of how executive management responds (now behind closed doors obviously). I don't understand why you do it if you are genuinely getting *ripped off* or whatever though. I would love if my new firm just decided to pay me more than I was willing to work for and they may be willing to do so, but if I'm not pushing them and forcing them to pay me more (the alternative being that they forego my labor and productivity) I have no justification to ***** about what I'm getting paid. Uber corporate management has been great in NYC (especially for those of us who have been there since opening the NYC base) but they ultimately weren't willing to match the alternative I got and, it follows, they don't get my work or to make money from me.
> 
> If you as a driver are getting ripped off or a bad deal, don't drive Uber. Advertise on Craigslist, hand out business cards, do any one of a number of things to get your name out there. That said, if you would not be able to find your passenger without Uber and, as a result, your alternative to driving as a partner is not to make an income, don't complain about Uber. Complain about the government/education system/the actual issues which caused you to be in the predicament where your best alternative is to drive for Uber. In the event this isn't the case (where your best alternative is something other than driving for Uber), stop. It is bad for everyone (corporate as well as drivers) when you experience failure or don't do well financially. If you can't do basic cashflow modeling to figure out whether your driving with Uber is going to pay for your car payments to Santander, you shouldn't be running your own business (in that case you should be an employee of a firm that pays you to drive or that at least handles all of the work involved in actually running a business).
> 
> Hope this is constructive and am interested in replies. Trolls please don't respond (aside from Hackenstein who is my favorite poster on this forum).


Thanks JD! That has gotta be the biggest bucket of ice water tipped on the collective UBERX Community I've read.

I hope that the choices out there for negatively affected drivers is to find a towel, dry themselves off and work out what to do next - no point going after the messenger.!


----------



## observer

Hackenstein said:


> Thank you for this link. I've read that they offshore their money, but didn't know if was accurate.
> 
> This is no joke.


Yes, most people don't even begin to realize how Megacorps suck communities tax base dry. Guess who will pay for local taxes lost, employment taxes lost, income that was spent locally lost, you and me, Joe Taxpayer will make up the difference.


----------



## Hackenstein

observer said:


> Yes, most people don't even begin to realize how Megacorps suck communities tax base dry. Guess who will pay for local taxes lost, employment taxes lost, income that was spent locally lost, you and me, Joe Taxpayer will make up the difference.


Yep.


----------



## john djjjoe

scrurbscrud said:


> "Negative actually. Time is money remember? You took at least a few seconds to read all of this *@#($."
> 
> Actually your return has produced a couple of great gems.
> 
> This being a classic!
> 
> *"Go drive a yellow cab. Your union will express your views as long as you agree with leadership.*"
> 
> Priceless.


Good to know, we'll be here whenever I'm bored and avoiding work. Full disclosure, all of my *Priceless* comments are sponsored by a partnership between Mastercard and the NY Taxi Drivers Alliance (Yellow cab drivers' union).



UberHammer said:


> Or his mind not being wired for social/people skills is why he is so brilliant and hard working. A lot of high functioning autistics are like this. Mark Zuckerberg is a good example. A great technical career, with a pile of exploited people left behind. Travis' number of exploited people is putting Mark's to shame!


Not going to speculate with clinical terms but it's irrelevant- he's doing a great job with the business.* If you enter into an agreement or do something in concert with another person in a situation where you feel the terms are unfair, unless you were forced or compelled to fulfill your part of that action then you were not exploited. Just to preempt the strawman- if your economic situation put you in a situation where Uber was the best alternative, that does not mean Travis or Uber exploited you, it means (and I do not believe this but just for arguments sake) at most you were exploited by reality and the absence of a utopian welfare state.

*Note that the purpose of a business is ultimately to maximize return to equity holders and beyond that any other actions or considerations a firm may take into account when making decisions are (ultimately) for PR or out of the goodness of management's collective heart.



UberHammer said:


> I don't. Wow, you're so smart!


You and my mommy agree on something.



Hackenstein said:


> The only reason 'Uber' is operating in NYC is because Ashwani Chhabra was bribed to distort the regulations and allow a phone app to be used as a taximeter.
> 
> It's completely illegal, and Uber is doing serious harm to NYC's budget. Not taxis, the entire City budget.
> 
> I don't own a Medallion btw, but it's good to know that a bloviating fool such as yourself knows next to nothing about the industry.


If NYC is hurting because medallion sales are falling/not making as much it can raise taxes in other areas. I also don't know much about the horse and buggy business



scrurbscrud said:


> Yeah, we got that one many times huh? If you don't like it, we can deactivate your account for you if you request it.
> 
> Oh yeah? How bout you go **** yerself?


Sounds like a plan. After The Daily Show sound good? Will meet you at the Starbucks across the street.



scrurbscrud said:


> I bet the horse carriage drivers said the same things about your metered motor car. You think the transportation world is or has to be run only by a taxi meter? lol
> 
> It would appear that the entire world's cab industry was hit by Vulture Capitalism at it's finest.


*Vulture Capitalism* drags us all forward slowly, two steps forward one step back.



Hackenstein said:


> I'll take the first part as sarcasm. The second part is precisely right.


Please never, ever leave.



UberHammer said:


> "If you don't like it, then quit" has been uttered from the lips of every man and woman in history who has ever exploited another human being.


Again, not exploitation if you are doing it willingly. If you do not quit then you are driving for Uber willingly (or you are the first doing so at gunpoint of whom I've heard).



Hackenstein said:


> Actually, the NYC taxi system is extraordinarily good, the cars are in excellent shape, and everything is properly regulated.
> 
> You work for a company which right now is enabling and encouraging thousands of drivers to do business without proper commercial insurance.
> 
> That fact alone sinks every anti-taxi argument.


a) Not in NYC, Uber actually links directly to TLC insurance requirements (http://www.driveubernyc.com/tlc-overview/). We have drivers follow local commercial standards based on the understanding we reached with the regulators et al. If you are upset that Livery Drivers may or may not need as much insurance as medallions take that up with your union. *That said, how much insurance are you actually required to have as a medallion driver? What is the cost? I see a lot of complaining about Uber drivers' lack of need to buy commercial insurance (again, not true where you work, but I digress) but no real comparisons or figures.*
b) *That fact alone sinks every anti-taxi argument* to the same extent that the Jews who planted the explosives in the Twin Towers used a time machine provided by the Illuminati to go back in time and sink the USS Maine with the intent of starting the Spanish American War to get the US involved with Europe so that the US would be able to expand its influence to the Middle East and secure Jerusalem for the chosen people.



Hackenstein said:


> It's 100% Uber's fault.
> 
> 'Governments' require real commercial insurance for damn good reason.
> 
> What massive unemployment are you referring to? Yellow cabs? It's been a steady reliable job for around 80 years.


What is price/coverage difference between commercial TLC dictated insurance standards Uber drivers are required to meet and what you have as a medallion?



Actionjax said:


> Better than expected. Just over $12 per hour clear. But you needed to be smart on the expense side of things. No driving around. Always drop and wait. Also there were an excess of much longer trips that helped.
> 
> Like I said better than expected.
> 
> I have the details in other posts if you care to read them.


That's good. Sorry I can't sift through all of it :/ is there a way to just look at your posts within this thread?

Continued in next post...


----------



## john djjjoe

Continued from previous post...



scrurbscrud said:


> Apparently they've bribed most of the major cities in the U.S. as well? Oh, excuse me, they are campaign contributions donchaknow?
> 
> All entirely legal and above board too. Allowing cab services everywhere to get flat hammered.


ISIS is also getting hammered at the moment. Sometimes you deserve it.



UberBlackPr1nce said:


> If the taxi industry is doing well, why are you complaining about uber?
> Also Why do you care so much about drivers not having commercial insurances? If they want to destroy their cars whats it to you?


He is a Good Samaritan trying to turn us from our unG-dly ways.



Hackenstein said:


> Any idea how many places Uber has decided to start operations, ignoring insurance requirements etc, forcing municipalities to sue them, issue cease and desist orders? Or chase them around, like in Australia?
> 
> Any idea how many places they've been banned outright? Legal and above board you must be a comedian.


Your unions jump to lawsuits because thats all you know . Try to maintain your stranglehold on power.



Hackenstein said:


> Because it's illegal unfair competition, period. Because we pay the real costs of doing business.
> 
> Commercial insurance protects passengers as well, hun. And please spare me the Uber umbrella policy which is meaningless if your insurer finds out what youre doing and cancels your policy.


I didn't realize Darwin had a rulebook. Nothing you say about insurance matters until you point out 1) how much you pay and your coverage and 2) we get a few NYC drivers to quote what they pay and their coverage. Please provide scans for reference unless you plan on not continuing to talk like a ******nozzle.



scrurbscrud said:


> Seriously though how much money has Uber picked out of your personal pocket? That's really the only metric that matters.


Tree fiddy. 






Hackenstein said:


> I've seen a drop but I'm still making money.
> 
> The bigger picture is the uncertainty has prevented the City from being able to sell Medallions which is costing the city tens of Millions of dollars.
> 
> Medallion transfers, stamp tax also contribute to the city budget. That's what this is really about, vulture capitalists sucking the value out and destroying everything in their path.


As the things people use/buy to do business change, government changes the things which it taxes to bring in revenue. Everyone was surprised how quickly this grew (as of Q4 last year we looked back at projections from the Series A round and it's scary how much we've outperformed.



Hackenstein said:


> I don't honestly know anything about DC or Virginia, and NYC is pretty unique.
> 
> Obviously what you're saying is a a good thing. What I don't know is how it effects the overall market regarding driver saturation.
> 
> That is imo perhaps the main issue here. It's just not ok to toss as many cars as one wants into any given market. That is what limiting Medallion numbers prevents.


You fail to demonstrate why that's not okay. There can be unlimited Coffee Shops and unlimited Web Developers. Engineers and Programmers don't have a union to limit entry. Why do you? If you were a London Cabbie passing The Knowledge, MAYBE I would understand some resentment for them not having to jump through those hoops, but in NYC I consistently find medallion cab drivers to be the worst without exception. I can't count how many times I've started in the Village, asked to go to Fulton Street, and ended up on the Brooklyn Bridge because instead of monitoring the Cabbie I trusted them to know where they were going and did work or read while they didn't bother (excuse to run up the fare) or didn't know to ask if I wanted to go to the one in the more populated, closer area. It's actually terrifying in context. NYC cab drivers are, generally speaking, more GPS monkeys than Uber drivers are where our app pushes directions on them.

It's also just better to deal with as a customer because instead of trying to file something with the TLC for no reason I just call or email customer support depending on how bad it was and the fare is adjusted to what it should have been (including adjustments for traffic and waiting time mind you).


----------



## Uberdawg

What John has shown us is the true corporate mentality of Uber. They do not care about the drivers. We are an expendable commodity. But I think this is the flaw in their thinking. There is not an unlimited supply of drivers. Once Santander has financed all the ones they can, who will be left. They can lower the car requiremtns (UberJax and his 02 Caddy are now good) but sooner or later, car and driver quality declines and Uber is nothing special.

Drove a banker and lawyer last night. Both got in saying how much they love Uber. They inevitably asked me what I thought and I talked about better, faster, why cheaper? One of them said that was the flaw in the Uber model. No drivers, no Uber. Bad drivers and bad cars, no Uber. The vast majority of the pax don't give a shit about the price. They press a button and a car shows in 10'minutes or less most times. He said, charge the same as Taxis. It is not the cash, it is the convenience.


----------



## john djjjoe

Uberdawg said:


> What John has shown us is the true corporate mentality of Uber. They do not care about the drivers. We are an expendable commodity. But I think this is the flaw in their thinking. There is not an unlimited supply of drivers. Once Santander has financed all the ones they can, who will be left. They can lower the car requiremtns (UberJax and his 02 Caddy are now good) but sooner or later, car and driver quality declines and Uber is nothing special.
> 
> Drove a banker and lawyer last night. Both got in saying how much they love Uber. They inevitably asked me what I thought and I talked about better, faster, why cheaper? One of them said that was the flaw in the Uber model. No drivers, no Uber. Bad drivers and bad cars, no Uber. The vast majority of the pax don't give a shit about the price. They press a button and a car shows in 10'minutes or less most times. He said, charge the same as Taxis. It is not the cash, it is the convenience.


1) I'm sorry, would you have preferred I toe the party line and tell you how you partners are each special snowflakes that the firm cares about very much? Did you ever actually expect that any business would ever care about you as a person? It is nice if management is more sympathetic/kind however I'm intentionally being blunt and upfront to ensure the bottom line is getting across. The discussion about price is 75% about psychology/advertising, 25% about price. When you go to Costco you aren't always getting a better deal (often you aren't) but because of the way the firm frames the narrative we associate Costco with low cost and quality. Uber is aiming for this as well. Price matters for customers who are increasing volume (which does increase net income for the firm even if your $/mile falls, but the firm doesn't care about your $/mile ultimately so that's fine).

2) You are correct, in the long run Uber will run out of drivers. That said, in the long run the world will run out of oil, we will all be dead, and cars will be able to drive themselves (although not necessarily in that order). Current equity holders will make exits in the next 5-7 years and there are plenty of drivers for that timeframe. Please don't try telling me about how we should live in a socialist utopia because I'm not telling you this is how it SHOULD be, I'm just reminding you how it is.


----------



## uber_sea

Still drinking that uber kool aid after you left the company. Bravo!


----------



## observer

Welcome back, I have to admit I really like reading your posts, puts it all out there in black and white, no 50 shades of gray here .


----------



## Lidman

Hackenstein said:


> Because it's illegal unfair competition, period. Because we pay the real costs of doing business.
> 
> Commercial insurance protects passengers as well, hun. And please spare me the Uber umbrella policy which is meaningless if your insurer finds out what youre doing and cancels your policy.


I agree. On a positive note, it's nice to see more and more cities like LasVegas, Portland etc, are keeping uber out. I hope others will follow suit.


----------



## scrurbscrud

observer said:


> Welcome back, I have to admit I really like reading your posts, puts it all out there in black and white, no 50 shades of gray here .


I agree with the majority of his statements. And if any of us were in the same shoes we'd probably make the same decisions and 'think the same.'


----------



## Uberdawg

No John, you are carrying the party line. I would expect nothing less. I know Uber doesn't care about drivers. But that is the flaw. They will run out if drivers far sooner than they develop driverless cars. It will be much less than 5 to 7 years. 

I do not expect Uber to care about me as a person. I do expect them to care if I make money. If they don't, which they don't, then they will run out of drivers. There is not an endless supply of people that can deliver a product which Uber has sold its riders on expecting. 

Costco is really not a good example. They actually do care about their employees. And yes, some products are not a good deal, but most are. They have successfully married the concept of quality, service, price and happy employees. A concept Uber will never manage with their current culture.


----------



## observer

scrurbscrud said:


> I agree with the majority of his statements. And if any of us were in the same shoes we'd probably make the same decisions and 'think the same.'


Me too, good thing I researched Uber and found this site BEFORE I got caught up in actually signing up to drive for Uber or Lyft.

Amazing how many people jump into business without any research or preparation.


----------



## SCdave

john djjjoe said:


> **continuation follows
> 
> Thanks! You are definitely right in one respect- "ride sharing" is a bullshit term made up in an effort to make unlicensed driving (in non-NYC markets at least) seem legitimate. Given that you are referring to NYC TLC licensing is required on all levels to be NYC (Manhattan) based for both UberX AND UberBlack (and obviously the cab hail brings a yellow). In NYC at least it really isn't ride "sharing" though so your point seems moot (aside from your obvious need to vent about your medallion's value plummeting).
> 
> *clap* Call it like it is boys.
> 
> Oh you're back! Remember- in NYC all drivers are TLC licensed. Not quite yellow cabs but it isn't the free for all you're portraying it as.
> 
> American Express doesn't seem to be a retail company but I'm pretty sure they only make money when people buy things at stores.
> 
> Nothing I say is relevant, this is just the top post in the past month because of all the funny tangents.
> 
> THANK YOU. This is what I was hoping for, the quiet (hopefully) majority whose voice is crowded out by the complaints.
> 
> Negative actually. Time is money remember? You took at least a few seconds to read all of this *@#($.
> 
> *I really hope if anyone learns anything from this post it will be what you described, but why that is both 1) positive from our perspective and 2) guarantees you will only complain more over time. The logic follows. If it is unclear please mention where and I will make a point of prioritizing this over PMs because it is the only thing I have not seen anyone notice that (in my opinion at least) is not "zero value" which I might be able to contribute here*
> 
> Uber pushes volume. Uber makes a set percentage on each trip. Uber's goal is to make the overall transaction volume of rides paid for through the system increase because the firm's net income is a function of that. (For the sake of making the math easy and discussion please assume credit card fees are a flat percentage to Uber and there are no other fees such as chargebacks/merchant/etc...); Uber is equally profitable processing one transaction for ten dollars and ten transactions for one dollar, however there is an expectation that higher numbers of rides will lead to higher income due to a greater incidence of rides whose cost deviates from the mean (remember, Uber's cut is related to the absolute transaction volume, not the percentage of it which you take home).
> 
> THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM YOUR GOAL. Uber has some overhead but (once again for the sake of conversation) assume it is zero; corporate in NYC has ~50 staff at the moment and everyone else is basically a subcontractor. In light of fundraising success, assume Uber's overhead costs are taken care of but ultimately they are fixed even when taken into consideration because they scale beautifully- the computers will match/process one thousand rides just as easily as matching/processing a single ride. Your gas/depreciation/value of your time do not scale; your gas cost increases in a linear relationship to the value of your time spent and while depreciation is ultimately logarithmic, for new/lightly used cars it can be assumed to be linear as well as soon as the car is off the lot.
> 
> This difference is why you have a problem with more rides for less money and Uber loves it. We want more transactions because it's more likely we'll have more high priced transactions which (in relative terms) increases revenue even faster. As a driver, naturally, you want the opposite. You want fewer, higher priced fares.
> 
> Uber management/equity holders/investors, it follows, do not want you to make more money from fewer rides with higher fares. We want you to make more short trips which may waste your time/money/wear and tear but (from a financial perspective) we don't care because it maximizes the value of what we got for signing onto this company early/putting a lot of faith in Travis from (almost) day 1. I do sympathize with those of you who feel abused/misled but at the end of the day I don't understand why you do it if it is not making you money. If you just like coming on here to vent, that's great and I think it's hilarious because of how executive management responds (now behind closed doors obviously). I don't understand why you do it if you are genuinely getting *ripped off* or whatever though. I would love if my new firm just decided to pay me more than I was willing to work for and they may be willing to do so, but if I'm not pushing them and forcing them to pay me more (the alternative being that they forego my labor and productivity) I have no justification to ***** about what I'm getting paid. Uber corporate management has been great in NYC (especially for those of us who have been there since opening the NYC base) but they ultimately weren't willing to match the alternative I got and, it follows, they don't get my work or to make money from me.
> 
> If you as a driver are getting ripped off or a bad deal, don't drive Uber. Advertise on Craigslist, hand out business cards, do any one of a number of things to get your name out there. That said, if you would not be able to find your passenger without Uber and, as a result, your alternative to driving as a partner is not to make an income, don't complain about Uber. Complain about the government/education system/the actual issues which caused you to be in the predicament where your best alternative is to drive for Uber. In the event this isn't the case (where your best alternative is something other than driving for Uber), stop. It is bad for everyone (corporate as well as drivers) when you experience failure or don't do well financially. If you can't do basic cashflow modeling to figure out whether your driving with Uber is going to pay for your car payments to Santander, you shouldn't be running your own business (in that case you should be an employee of a firm that pays you to drive or that at least handles all of the work involved in actually running a business).
> 
> Hope this is constructive and am interested in replies. Trolls please don't respond (aside from Hackenstein who is my favorite poster on this forum).


Would you recommend to anyone you know personally (like a friend's or family member's 21 yr+ son) to driver for Uber?


----------



## Uberdawg

SCdave said:


> Would you recommend to anyone you know personally (like a friend's or family member's 21 yr+ son) to driver for Uber?


Based on his replies, if he did, he would be worse than any Uber shill ever. He has already said the company doesn't give a shit about drivers, how much they make, what their concerns are. So, unless he hates his family, the answer would be no.


----------



## Andy1234

john djjjoe said:


> b) *That fact alone sinks every anti-taxi argument* to the same extent that the Jews who planted the explosives in the Twin Towers used a time machine provided by the Illuminati to go back in time and sink the USS Maine with the intent of starting the Spanish American War to get the US involved with Europe so that the US would be able to expand its influence to the Middle East and secure Jerusalem for the chosen people.





john djjjoe said:


> ISIS is also getting hammered at the moment. Sometimes you deserve it.





john djjjoe said:


> Tree fiddy.


Cracking me up. If current CSRs would interact like this I would at least get a laugh to go along with the inevitable "no and we don't care".

Sincerely,
Special Snowflake


----------



## john djjjoe

uber_sea said:


> Still drinking that uber kool aid after you left the company. Bravo!


Only allowed to have the crappy organic whole foods version at a west coast tech company, so no kool aid unfortunately.



observer said:


> Welcome back, I have to admit I really like reading your posts, puts it all out there in black and white, no 50 shades of gray here .


Thank you for acknowledging this, based on the bulk of feedback I might as well not continue - nuance must be harder to pick up on than i'd anticipated.



Lidman said:


> I agree. On a positive note, it's nice to see more and more cities like LasVegas, Portland etc, are keeping uber out. I hope others will follow suit.


Why do you want to keep people from using a service? If Uber *enters* a city no drivers have to sign up and no riders need to use it. This isn't like crime where you get a personal high and negative externalities drag down society as a whole (I am extremely confident that even in the event insurance doesnt pay out everything as soon as PR shows up the firm and its umbrellas will cover whatever needs to be covered although I'm still waiting to hear about what level of insurance coverage medallions/regular cabs do carry).



scrurbscrud said:


> I agree with the majority of his statements. And if any of us were in the same shoes we'd probably make the same decisions and 'think the same.'


It's not about the shoes I'm wearing, if I didn't have a stake in the firm I would still recognize why and how the firm acts the way it does. I don't own and despise Walmart but understand why they do the things they do and would never try to *block* them from entering this city. I just don't shop there- if people decide the low prices are worth it then that's up to them.



Uberdawg said:


> No John, you are carrying the party line. I would expect nothing less. I know Uber doesn't care about drivers. But that is the flaw. They will run out if drivers far sooner than they develop driverless cars. It will be much less than 5 to 7 years.
> 
> I do not expect Uber to care about me as a person. I do expect them to care if I make money. If they don't, which they don't, then they will run out of drivers. There is not an endless supply of people that can deliver a product which Uber has sold its riders on expecting.
> 
> Costco is really not a good example. They actually do care about their employees. And yes, some products are not a good deal, but most are. They have successfully married the concept of quality, service, price and happy employees. A concept Uber will never manage with their current culture.


How am I carrying a party line? Do you hear me saying this is a positive thing and I believe it is the *right* thing for the firm should do? Feels like you're describing me as a cheerleader of sorts. I'm painting Uber as a cold uncaring unfeeling money making machine that will try to keep you involved as long as you make it money, doesn't care about your profit margins (which come off linear costs as opposed to relatively fixed costs which Uber enjoys), and would adopt puppies if that was profitable.

I'm not saying there's an endless supply of people, what I'm saying is that the supply which exists is more than sufficient for the people running the company to consider the supply unlimited for our purposes. It's like the sun has unlimited electricity- not really, but by the time it runs out we will be gone (just as current management will be gone by the time drivers *run out*). Also keep in mind if that ever did happen Uber would easily just jack prices back up to attract the drivers it wanted (that's a very uncertain if however given the sheer numbers of people driving/onboarding).



SCdave said:


> Would you recommend to anyone you know personally (like a friend's or family member's 21 yr+ son) to driver for Uber?


As said previously, definitely if they had access to their parents' car, gas card, and insurance. I'll amend that to say only if their parents drive a German car and fill the car with hi test.



Uberdawg said:


> Based on his replies, if he did, he would be worse than any Uber shill ever. He has already said the company doesn't give a shit about drivers, how much they make, what their concerns are. So, unless he hates his family, the answer would be no.


Dad- is that you?



Andy1234 said:


> Cracking me up. If current CSRs would interact like this I would at least get a laugh to go along with the inevitable "no and we don't care".
> 
> Sincerely,
> Special Snowflake


And two gold stars* for you!

*the stickers, not the type which contribute to your rating, so they're actually worth something


----------



## elelegido

Hackenstein said:


> I have a question. What ****ing right does Uber have to do virtual street hails in NYC. What right do you have to price gouge while real cabs cannot.


D'oh! That's two questions.


----------



## scrurbscrud

john djjjoe said:


> It's not about the shoes I'm wearing, if I didn't have a stake in the firm I would still recognize why and how the firm acts the way it does.


As I also do. Vulture Capitalism is an animal that does what it does. No different than the predator it is. Working there or with them or not the same observations can be made/observed. Same can be said for any larger dotcorp.


> I don't own and despise Walmart but understand why they do the things they do and would never try to *block* them from entering this city. I just don't shop there- if people decide the low prices are worth it then that's up to them.


I buy my ride share water there. Hoping it's bottled and imported straight from the Yangtze, unfiltered.


----------



## Uberdawg

The party line is that Uber doesn't care about drivers. What's good for Uber is good for Uber, the hell with the drivers. I didn't need you to tell me that. I have been a driver since September and know it already. I drive because it make sense for me. Not as much sense as it made 3 months ago. If they cut rates further, I won't. But that is the what I am trying to explain to you and that Uber doesn't see. I have a nice car, I give good service, I have picked up many private clients from Uber. There is not an unlimited supply of me to go around. There may be an assload of Jose's and Dimitri's and Husseins around, but how many of them will give the "5* Uber experience" that Uber is selling. The answer is none


----------



## john djjjoe

scrurbscrud said:


> As I also do. Vulture Capitalism is an animal that does what it does. No different than the predator it is. Working there or with them or not the same observations can be made/observed. Same can be said for any larger dotcorp.
> 
> I buy my ride share water there. Hoping it's bottled and imported straight from the Yangtze, unfiltered.


It's this way for any company except you aren't employees of the company. How much do the people handing out samples at Costco earn? The subcontractors who are paid for by the brands I believe. (I honestly don't know and am not asking this to make my point)



Uberdawg said:


> The party line is that Uber doesn't care about drivers. What's good for Uber is good for Uber, the hell with the drivers. I didn't need you to tell me that. I have been a driver since September and know it already. I drive because it make sense for me. Not as much sense as it made 3 months ago. If they cut rates further, I won't. But that is the what I am trying to explain to you and that Uber doesn't see. I have a nice car, I give good service, I have picked up many private clients from Uber. There is not an unlimited supply of me to go around. There may be an assload of Jose's and Dimitri's and Husseins around, but how many of them will give the "5* Uber experience" that Uber is selling. The answer is none


Uber cares about drivers like you care about toilet paper. That's how all companies are ultimately. Some companies (we keep using Costco so let's stick with them) elect for a business model and image that is a softer two-ply, some such as uber are happy with whatever tissue paper off the shelf saves them the most money. Don't pretend Costco *cares* about its employees, the only company which can be said that's the case now for is the Container Store which is at risk for going under due to employee-friendly policies. Publicly traded companies are good to their employees to improve the employees work for the firm. In this case, you are a needle in a haystack; unlike Costco's cashier who will see (assume 20 lanes) 5% of the customers who go through, you will see <<<1% of Uber's clients. Investment in you isn't worth it in this scenario.

Companies are not good or bad, they are amoral. Assholes at the top may be better or worse people but at the end of the day their job is to give shareholders returns regardless of whether they run Enron or Costco or Walmart or Uber; arguably the only bad CEOs of those three firms are Lay and Skilling becuase they did something we consider immoral which was ALSO illegal. Uber is not violating laws. Don't talk about companies being good or bad and enjoy your car.


----------



## Uberdawg

Had high hopes for this thread but it has proved to be nothing but a waste. Regardless of what is said you can simply say that companies are inherently mean, deal with it. Uber treats it's drivers like shit, deal with it. The answer is that I have. I use Uber for my benefit, not theirs. I make more money from clients I have met doing Uber than I make from Uber.

So I get it. Not waiting on Uber to show me love. If they did, I might feel differently. Time will prove one of us correct. Uber will succeed on the backs of its "partners" or it will fail because it can't keep enough "partners" drinking the Kool aid. Unlike some people here, I understand that Uber is not my "partner". I am in this for me, just like they are. The foundation of all good "partnerships".


----------



## scrurbscrud

john djjjoe said:


> It's this way for any company except you aren't employees of the company. *How much do the people handing out samples at Costco earn?* The subcontractors who are paid for by the brands I believe. (I honestly don't know and am not asking this to make my point)


Far more than UberX drivers, certainly. Will have to see if they go broke faster than Uber can get to market.


----------



## elelegido

Hackenstein said:


> I'll pop bottled water out of my ass all day too.


Sounds painful. You're better off keeping it in the glove compartment.


----------



## Uberdawg

And by the way, the annals of business history are rife with companies that care, and took care of, their producing employees. Yes, many companies don't have a history of treating all employees well, however, most companies are smart enough to treat the producing employees well It may suck to be a secretary at Microsoft but I doubt it sucks to be an engineer, producer or designer. Apple, Cisco, Samsung, GE, Google, Goldman Sachs, Chase, etc... 

With Uber, the only producers are the drivers. Without drivers, it's a really neat app. Without CSR's, the company still runs. Without Travis the company runs. Without drivers, there is no company and no money for Travis, Google or Goldmans. If the mindset is they can treat their employees, partners, drivers, associates (whatever the **** we are this week) like dirt, that will catch them sooner or later. The people that will be buying the IPO (if and when) will be asking these same questions also. 

Many companies fail when all they care about is making bottom lines look good and what are the profits. I actually know Bernie Ebbers. Nice guy, drank many a drink with him. Don't think he ever meant to harm anyone. He lost sight of what wa real. In my opinion, so has Travis (and I don't know him). The guy who thinks he is the smartest guy in the room, often isn't.


----------



## Hackenstein

That guy is some troll, huh. Long winded nonsense replies to every comment.

To sum up, though, NYC cannot merely raise taxes to make up for the tens of Millions lost revenue thanks to Uber. Taxes are already high.

Yellow cabs don't have a union, this guy is unbelievably clueless. Municipalities are suing, like LA and SF.


----------



## UberHammer

john djjjoe said:


> Not going to speculate with clinical terms but it's irrelevant- he's doing a great job with the business.* If you enter into an agreement or do something in concert with another person in a situation where you feel the terms are unfair, *u**nless you were forced or compelled* to fulfill your part of that action then you were not exploited.


This is blatantly false! There is *NO* contingency of force or compulsion in the definition of exploitation. You can't just make up your own definitions of words. Here is the definition of exploitation:

ex·ploi·ta·tion
ˌekˌsploiˈtāSH(ə)n/
_noun_
noun: *exploitation*; plural noun: *exploitations*

*1*.
the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work.
"the exploitation of migrant workers"
synonyms: taking advantage, abuse, misuse, ill-treatment, unfair treatment,oppression
"the exploitation of the poor"
*2*.
the action of making use of and benefiting from resources.
"the Bronze Age saw exploitation of gold deposits"
synonyms: utilization, use, making use of, making the most of, capitalization on;
_informal_cashing in on
"the exploitation of mineral resources"
the fact of making use of a situation to gain unfair advantage for oneself.
"this administration's exploitation of the fear of crime"
synonyms: taking advantage, abuse, misuse, ill-treatment, unfair treatment,oppression
"the exploitation of the poor"




john djjjoe said:


> Just to preempt the strawman- if your economic situation put you in a situation where Uber was the best alternative, that does not mean Travis or Uber exploited you, it means (and I do not believe this but just for arguments sake) at most you were exploited by reality and the absence of a utopian welfare state.


By the very definition of exploitation, people exploit people in order to achieve a benefit from doing it. People are not exploited by situations, nor are situations benefited from it. Given you recognize the drivers are potentially being exploited by what you posted above, the next step is to recognize the people, or the person, benefiting from the exploitation.



john djjjoe said:


> *Note that the purpose of a business is ultimately to maximize return to equity holders and beyond that any other actions or considerations a firm may take into account when making decisions are (ultimately) for PR or out of the goodness of management's collective heart.


Many people throughout history of resorted to exploitation in order to maximize their returns. This is why so many laws exists to protect employees from being exploited by employers. Travis has found a loop hole around those laws. Those loopholes have existed for decades, but he is the first to use them to exploit 160,000 people... and growing. It's not something a long term business strategy can be built around. Eventually government steps up to end exploitation. But I understand you are a shareholder in Uber, so you'll have to go through the five stages of grief to accept that the future of Uber isn't as bright as you've been led to believe. Given how snarky you are in your posts here, I gather you are a very closed minded individual, so you likely won't believe it until you see it... but don't say I didn't warn you. Your made up definitions won't save you from government stepping up to stop Travis Kalanick's exploitation of hundreds of thousands Americans.


----------



## UberHammer

uber_sea said:


> Still drinking that uber kool aid after you left the company. Bravo!


He still owns shares of the company.


----------



## UberBlackPr1nce

Lidman said:


> I agree. On a positive note, it's nice to see more and more cities like LasVegas, Portland etc, are keeping uber out. I hope others will follow suit.


They're keeping uber out for greed purposes not to protect the consumer lol. Do you know how the taxi community treats people in Vegas who have no choice but to use their services?


----------



## Super G

john djjjoe said:


> None that I disagreed with really, I tried to avoid taking sides when responding to complaints so it was hard to say I *disagreed* with anything. To put it simply, we wanted problems to go away. If customer is complaining about you/your car unless they have complaints for >75% of rides they have credibility and get a credit based on their ride history (the more they've paid the more I can pay them in credit to make them happy). If you are complaining about customer there really isn't much I'm going to do unless they did something illegal or outside the realm of normal expectations (making you wait, *dirtying* your car are not polite but they are *reasonable* expectations of what you will experience while driving as a partner). Outside of responding to complaints complaints canned responses are not the norm thankfully (and in fairness the situations wouldn't warrant them generally speaking).
> 
> That said there are people working there who will send canned responses to anything they receive just to keep their responses/hour high but they don't last long when it becomes apparent that everything they are responding to is being escalated. Managers don't like that.


I was about to say you're full of it until I read the last paragraph because all I get is BS responses that do nothing to help the problem at hand.


----------



## Actionjax

Its funny how most of you feel that what's being said is anything new. I have said it before and in will say it again, You are expendable to Uber. You are product to be bought at the lowest possible price, and if the could buy overseas and ship drivers here they would. (Why do you think most taxi drivers are new emigrants)

Customers are key to Uber success. And the numbers of customers they attract is the secret sauce.

We all know it and we all hate it but it wont change without something drastic happening.


----------



## john djjjoe

UberHammer said:


> This is blatantly false! There is *NO* contingency of force or compulsion in the definition of exploitation. You can't just make up your own definitions of words. Here is the definition of exploitation:
> 
> ex·ploi·ta·tion
> ˌekˌsploiˈtāSH(ə)n/
> _noun_
> noun: *exploitation*; plural noun: *exploitations*
> 
> *1*.
> the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work.
> "the exploitation of migrant workers"
> synonyms: taking advantage, abuse, misuse, ill-treatment, unfair treatment,oppression
> "the exploitation of the poor"
> *2*.
> the action of making use of and benefiting from resources.
> "the Bronze Age saw exploitation of gold deposits"
> synonyms: utilization, use, making use of, making the most of, capitalization on;
> _informal_cashing in on
> "the exploitation of mineral resources"
> the fact of making use of a situation to gain unfair advantage for oneself.
> "this administration's exploitation of the fear of crime"
> synonyms: taking advantage, abuse, misuse, ill-treatment, unfair treatment,oppression
> "the exploitation of the poor"
> 
> 
> By the very definition of exploitation, people exploit people in order to achieve a benefit from doing it. People are not exploited by situations, nor are situations benefited from it. Given you recognize the drivers are potentially being exploited by what you posted above, the next step is to recognize the people, or the person, benefiting from the exploitation.
> 
> Many people throughout history of resorted to exploitation in order to maximize their returns. This is why so many laws exists to protect employees from being exploited by employers. Travis has found a loop hole around those laws. Those loopholes have existed for decades, but he is the first to use them to exploit 160,000 people... and growing. It's not something a long term business strategy can be built around. Eventually government steps up to end exploitation. But I understand you are a shareholder in Uber, so you'll have to go through the five stages of grief to accept that the future of Uber isn't as bright as you've been led to believe. Given how snarky you are in your posts here, I gather you are a very closed minded individual, so you likely won't believe it until you see it... but don't say I didn't warn you. Your made up definitions won't save you from government stepping up to stop Travis Kalanick's exploitation of hundreds of thousands Americans.


This is hilarious. Your agreeing to work with uber makes it fair. If nobody is forcing you to do it, you are deciding to do it and if you are deciding to do it either you are unable to make your own decisions and should be appointed a guardian or (alternately) it means the cost-benefit analysis is favorable in your mind and so you elect to do it. If you had been working for Uber for years and they owed you a pension, health insurance etc... I could imagine some sense of power the firm might hold over you however given the relatively short time the company has even existed and the relatively low influence they have over drivers choices (other than to provide an option drivers may accept) it is hard to see how you are being extorted other than (as everyone feels) "i should get paid more but not have to ask for it or demand it because i say so"


----------



## UberHammer

john djjjoe said:


> This is hilarious. Your agreeing to work with uber makes it fair. If nobody is forcing you to do it,


I stopped reading right there, as you are obviously so closed minded you can't let go of a definition you use that has been proven wrong. Good luck with that. Bye.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> Its funny how most of you feel that what's being said is anything new. I have said it before and in will say it again, You are expendable to Uber. You are product to be bought at the lowest possible price, and if the could buy overseas and ship drivers here they would. (Why do you think most taxi drivers are new emigrants)
> 
> Customers are key to Uber success. And the numbers of customers they attract is the secret sauce.
> 
> We all know it and we all hate it but it wont change without something drastic happening.


Given the workforce Uber is using exists outside of decades of well established labor laws in the US, the price will naturally fall well below what society in the US (the people, represented by government) has established as fair. This is because poor, desperate and out of work people will drive for Uber for as little as $1 an hour (even less, but let's not drag this down into a debate of pennies) because anything more than $0 is better for them. If all the employment laws in this country were voided, many companies would do the same as Uber with their employees. This is because exploitation of the poor is the natural result of unregulated capitalism. The regulation exists to limit employer exploitation. Uber saying it's not an employer is the same BS it's spewing that it's not a transportation company. It does this BS to avoid the regulations.


----------



## Hackenstein

UberHammer said:


> Given the workforce Uber is using exists outside of decades of well established labor laws in the US, the price will naturally fall well below what society in the US (the people, represented by government) has established as fair. This is because poor, desperate and out of work people will drive for Uber for as little as $1 an hour (even less, but let's not drag this down into a debate of pennies) because anything more than $0 is better for them. If all the employment laws in this country were voided, many companies would do the same as Uber with their employees. This is because exploitation of the poor is the natural result of unregulated capitalism. The regulation exists to limit employer exploitation. Uber saying it's not an employer is the same BS it's spewing that it's not a transportation company. It does this BS to avoid the regulations.


100%.


----------



## john djjjoe

UberHammer said:


> Given the workforce Uber is using exists outside of decades of well established labor laws in the US, the price will naturally fall well below what society in the US (the people, represented by government) has established as fair. This is because poor, desperate and out of work people will drive for Uber for as little as $1 an hour (even less, but let's not drag this down into a debate of pennies) because anything more than $0 is better for them. If all the employment laws in this country were voided, many companies would do the same as Uber with their employees. This is because exploitation of the poor is the natural result of unregulated capitalism. The regulation exists to limit employer exploitation. Uber saying it's not an employer is the same BS it's spewing that it's not a transportation company. It does this BS to avoid the regulations.


Maybe I just enjoy driving and am happy to do it for $1 an hour instead of doing it for free in my car alone? Uber is ride sharing as you put it, it is NOT a taxi service.


----------



## UberHammer

john djjjoe said:


> Maybe I just enjoy driving and am happy to do it for $1 an hour instead of doing it for free in my car alone? Uber is ride sharing as you put it, it is NOT a taxi service.


I have never put Uber as ridesharing. I have always called it a taxi. Actionjax likes to disagree with me about that.

As for $1 an hour instead of free, it would be far easier legally speaking to do it free, as the law allows for volunteerism. Once there is compensation for the work, employment laws require that the compensation amount be fair, in order to protect people from being exploited. Uber can dodge those laws today. But due to it's size it won't be able to hide. Government will eventually step in to protect the exploited.


----------



## UberBlackPr1nce

john djjjoe said:


> Maybe I just enjoy driving and am happy to do it for $1 an hour instead of doing it for free in my car alone? Uber is ride sharing as you put it, it is NOT a taxi service.


Exactly. I think everyone fail to realize that uber is a friend with a car and not your Fortune 500 career of your dreams. Stop blaming uber for your choices. You told uber that I want to take my car or a Santander car and do ride sharing on your platform. Uber can't possibly be exploiting people because they can choose to be exploited by mcdonalds, walmart or any low wage job. They choose to be exploited by uber. No guns are involved in your decision to drive. If the poor feel that they can make money driving for uber then let them. But keep in mind that's their choice. The people nagging about uber are people who are smart enough and capable to find a better paying job but are to lazy or have no motivation and want uber to be there way out from doing hard work in the real world. But that's not reality so now they hate uber for them having to actually go out and work.


----------



## Hackenstein

john djjjoe said:


> Maybe I just enjoy driving and am happy to do it for $1 an hour instead of doing it for free in my car alone? Uber is ride sharing as you put it, it is NOT a taxi service.


What's ridesharing.

Charging money for livery service.

Uses a phone/GPS as a taximeter to calculate fare

Definition of a taxi.


----------



## UberHammer

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> Uber can't possibly be exploiting people because they can choose to be exploited by mcdonalds, walmart or any low wage job.


McDonalds, Walmart and all employers are limited by government in how far they can go in exploiting workers. Government doesn't eliminate exploitation. It just limits it.



> They choose to be exploited by uber.


Yes... poor, desperate and out of work people are easily exploited. That's why government has to regulate capitalism. Unregulated capitalism will always naturally lead to the extreme end of exploiting these people, because it's the easiest way to reduce business costs. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It just takes an asshole willing to do it.


----------



## UberBlackPr1nce

UberHammer said:


> McDonalds, Walmart and all employers are limited by government in how far they can go in exploiting workers. Government doesn't eliminate exploitation. It just limits it.
> 
> Yes... poor, desperate and out of work people are easily exploited. That's why government has to regulate capitalism. Unregulated capitalism will always naturally lead to the extreme end of exploiting these people, because it's the easiest way to reduce business costs. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It just takes an asshole willing to do it.


Well we live in this world and unless you are God and can change it then you have accept it. If you don't accept it then you will always be upset. The powerful will always exploit the lesser it's been like this since the beginning of time and it will remain until we all die.


----------



## UberBlackPr1nce

And first off your not poor if you have a qualified car to drive for uber. So uber is not exploiting the poor, They're just exploiting the desperate lol.


----------



## UberHammer

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> Well we live in this world and unless you are God and can change it then you have accept it. If you don't accept it then you will always be upset. The powerful will always exploit the lesser it's been like this since the beginning of time and it will remain until we all die.


Spoken like a true tea party disciple. Congrats... you earned your "Ayn Rand" patch.


----------



## UberHammer

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> And first off your not poor if you have a qualified car to drive for uber. So uber is not exploiting the poor, They're just exploiting the desperate lol.


you left out the "out of work". And I'm glad you find it funny.


----------



## UberBlackPr1nce

UberHammer said:


> you left out the "out of work". And I'm glad you find it funny.


You seemed to be a champion for workers right but you continue to fight for people who want to work for uber and their rates. These drivers sign up in droves to drive. We're just calling it like we see it. You want to blame uber like they are the reason people fell on hard times lol uber don't beg people to drive they pay people. If the wage is not acceptable then decline. If they feel that's all they got then that's on them. If I post a add for work and the pay is 2 bucks an hour and someone tells me they will do it, am I not to hire him because I should have a moral compass and say to myself he deserves more even though he has told me he wants less?


----------



## UberHammer

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> You seemed to be a champion for workers right but you continue to fight for people who want to work for uber and their rates. These drivers sign up in droves to drive. We're just calling it like we see it. You want to blame uber like they are the reason people fell on hard times lol uber don't beg people to drive they pay people. If the wage is not acceptable then decline. If they feel that's all they got then that's on them. If I post a add for work and the pay is 2 bucks an hour and someone tells me they will do it, am I not to hire him because I should have a moral compass and say to myself he deserves more even though he has told me he wants less?


Poor, desperate and out of work people want to work... obviously! I don't blame Uber for the position they are in. I'm saying government limits how much companies can exploit those who WANT to work for them.

Uber is just using a loophole around those limits. If McDonalds, Walmart, et al weren't limited, they would be doing exactly what Uber is doing.

If you are a business, and you can find someone willing to work for you for $2 an hour, I'd highly advise you to NOT pay him only $2 an hour, because doing so would be illegal. Being that you are a business, to employ him you must pay him minimum wage and pay all required payroll taxes so he has access to social services such as unemployment, workers comp, and social security. These exist so if you have to let him go, he gets hurt, or gets old, he's not screwed. That's the law regardless of whether or not you have the moral compass to see it.


----------



## UberBlackPr1nce

UberHammer said:


> Poor, desperate and out of work people want to work... obviously! I don't blame Uber for the position they are in. I'm saying government limits how much companies can exploit those who WANT to work for them.
> 
> Uber is just using a loophole around those limits. If McDonalds, Walmart, et al weren't limited, they would be doing exactly what Uber is doing.
> 
> If you are a business, and you can find someone willing to work for you for $2 an hour, I'd highly advise you to NOT pay him only $2 an hour, because doing so would be illegal. Being that you are a business, to employ him you must pay him minimum wage and pay all required payroll taxes so he has access to social services such as unemployment, workers comp, and social security. These exist so if you have to let him go, he gets hurt, or gets old, he's not screwed. That's the law regardless of whether or not you have the moral compass to see it.


So your argument is uber should be regulated as a company and should not use loopholes to bypass gov regs. Even though they got into business using loopholes. The gov says 56 cents a mile is acceptable should uber lobby to be regulated so that way the per mile rate is included and no more surges and guarantees? You can't be ok with uber getting into the business unregulated and you yourself driving for them and then cry foul when they don't play by the rules of the regulated. You have to learn to take the good with the bad. Roll with the punches and move on.


----------



## UberHammer

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> So your argument is uber should be regulated as a company and should not use loopholes to bypass gov regs. Even though they got into business using loopholes. The gov says 56 cents a mile is acceptable should uber lobby to be regulated so that way the per mile rate is included and no more surges and guarantees? You can't be ok with uber getting into the business unregulated and you yourself driving for them and then cry foul when they don't play by the rules of the regulated. You have to learn to take the good with the bad. Roll with the punches and move on.


I don't know the future. Unless Uber changes, all we can know is that government will do something in response. What that response is is anyone's guess. I may like how government responds. Or I may not like how government responds. That's the nature of politics.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> McDonalds, Walmart and all employers are limited by government in how far they can go in exploiting workers. Government doesn't eliminate exploitation. It just limits it.
> 
> Yes... poor, desperate and out of work people are easily exploited. That's why government has to regulate capitalism. Unregulated capitalism will always naturally lead to the extreme end of exploiting these people, because it's the easiest way to reduce business costs. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It just takes an asshole willing to do it.


Except this is not an employee employer relationship. It's a subcontracting agreement. If you are a supermarket and a supplier of goods gives you bad apples you don't blame the supplier. You go buy elsewhere or you don't sell apples.

What is happening here people keep buying apples that are getting worse and worse and complaining about it. Stop buying bad apples an either switch to oranges or some other product or get out of the supermarket business.

You are not an employee, if you want to be an employee somewhere with regulations and protections this is not the market to do it in.

It may not be morally right but it is what it is.

(I feel it's like telling people to not look into the sun because it hurts their eyes yet they do it anyways and complain about it)


----------



## Uberdawg

I would say that's like comparing apples and oranges but......

You are blaming the supplier of the apples by not buying from him anymore. In addition, I would let all of my other friends in the supermarket business know that this supplier sucks. And that they should be wary of doing business with him. Isn't that what we are doing here?

And this, of course, assumes that there is another apple supplier to choose from. In this area, Uber is the only apple supplier so if I want to sell apples, I have no choice but to buy them from Uber.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> Except this is not an employee employer relationship. It's a subcontracting agreement. If you are a supermarket and a supplier of goods gives you bad apples you don't blame the supplier. You go buy elsewhere or you don't sell apples.
> 
> What is happening here people keep buying apples that are getting worse and worse and complaining about it. Stop buying bad apples an either switch to oranges or some other product or get out of the supermarket business.
> 
> You are not an employee, if you want to be an employee somewhere with regulations and protections this is not the market to do it in.
> 
> It may not be morally right but it is what it is.
> 
> (I feel it's like telling people to not look into the sun because it hurts their eyes yet they do it anyways and complain about it)


I'm aware of the loophole Uber is using here. Pointing it out AGAIN isn't something new to the discussion that you've discovered to add to the conversation.

When Uber by the end of 2015 grows its driver base from 160,000 to 1,000,000 drivers like it plans using this loophole, its just a matter of time before some democrat in Washington DC points out to the rest of the democrats in congress that no one is paying the payroll taxes on those 1,000,000 jobs, meaning those jobs aren't protected by the social safety nets democrats have fought so hard over the decades to establish.


----------



## Actionjax

Uberdawg said:


> I would say that's like comparing apples and oranges but......
> 
> You are blaming the supplier of the apples by not buying from him anymore. In addition, I would let all of my other friends in the supermarket business know that this supplier sucks. And that they should be wary of doing business with him. Isn't that what we are doing here?
> 
> And this, of course, assumes that there is another apple supplier to choose from. In this area, Uber is the only apple supplier so if I want to sell apples, I have no choice but to buy them from Uber.


But Uber is not the only supplier. Taxi has been around for years. Lyft is an option for most, Sidecar, Postmates.

Driving jobs are plateful. Uber is just the easiest and worst paid one for some.

Part of owning a business is dealing with ever changing risks. If people want protection from that they need to find an employer. Uber is not an employer. They are a provider of goods for you to sell. It's either good or bad depending on your business model.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> I'm aware of the loophole Uber is using here. Pointing it out AGAIN isn't something new to the discussion that you've discovered to add to the conversation.
> 
> When Uber by the end of 2015 grows its driver base from 160,000 to 1,000,000 drivers like it plans using this loophole, its just a matter of time before some democrat in Washington DC points out to the rest of the democrats in congress that no one is paying the payroll taxes on those 1,000,000 jobs, meaning those jobs aren't protected by the social safety nets democrats have fought so hard over the decades to establish.


I guess me pointing it out again is no different that pointing out that Uber is exploitive.

And what is going to be a bigger number in congress that will raise eyebrows. A million people that are not having an employer pay taxes? Or a million people off the unemployment line to make better of themselves by using Uber to transition to better higher paying jobs and be bigger tax payers.

Uber is small potatoes to the government. When they go public they will be a bigger target for the government to go after. But you need to let them grow first.

Governments love Uber and what they say. They are creators of jobs. And that's headlines that get people re-elected. But no one cares to look at the quality of jobs but the people doing them.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> I guess me pointing it out again is no different that pointing out that Uber is exploitive.


When a poster claims once again that Uber is NOT exploiting anyone, then it needs to be pointed out again that Uber is exploitive. No one is claiming the driver jobs are NOT contracting jobs. It's unanimously accepted.



> And what is going to be a bigger number in congress that will raise eyebrows. A million people that are not having an employer pay taxes? Or a million people off the unemployment line to make better of themselves by using Uber to transition to better higher paying jobs and be bigger tax payers.


Off the unemployment line... and making less than minimum wage... because by the end of the year, when Uber has 1,000,000 drivers like it plans, Uber will have implemented at least two more rate drops in each city. Maybe even three.

You are right that Uber will spin the situation as being beneficial. The email I got today says Uber will create 1,000,000 jobs in 2015. So they're already starting the propaganda... or should I say continuing it even louder. The Uber BS machine will make the congressional debate very interesting, as congress is a BS machine itself.



> Uber is small potatoes to the government. When they go public they will be a bigger target for the government to go after. But you need to let them grow first.


If they achieve 1,000,000 drivers in 2015 like they plan, that is NOT small potatoes to the government.



> Governments love Uber and what they say.


LMAO! Are you forgetting how many times Uber was sued by governments in 2014 alone? Sometimes you really go off the deep end in your pro-uber rhetoric. So much so you claim things obviously wrong.



> They are creators of jobs. And that's headlines that get people re-elected. But no one cares to look at the quality of jobs but the people doing them.


Again, if/when Uber reaches 1,000,000 "jobs" like they claim, congress will take a good, long, hard look at the quality of them. It's what some people elected to congress live for.


----------



## Uberdawg

Reading impaired? Miss the part about in this area Uber is the *only *supplier? There is no Lyft, Sidecar etc... here. And I thought Uber was Ridesharing and not a Taxi service. I don't want oranges, I want apples. So taxi doesn't apply.

I am able to make this work for me just as you say you are able to do. We have totally different rates than many others. The apple supplier is allowing us to sell his apples for a higher price than some of our competitors therefore we can make money selling his apples where others may not be able to.

I also get confused when people say it's a subcontracting agreement, who is subcontracting from who? Supposedly Uber is just a technology platform that I use to generate leads in my business as an Independant Contractor. That kind of sounds like they are my sub contractor. But in this case, my subcontractor can set the rates?

Or is Uber much more than simply a lead generator and are in fact contracting me to provide a service for them since they set rates, acceptance and cancellation rates etc...


----------



## bilyvh

So what would make people actually happy on this forum? If rates go back up to the levels they were a year ago? Would all the talks of exploitation/manipulation end? People here are having a hard time making a distinction between being an EMPLOYEE and being an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR. Uber exploits this business model to the best of their ability and kudos to them, capitalism all the way, yea Murica **** yeah! I am not saying I support their business model, I sure as hell don't, you think I love making less than I did a year ago? I think everyone here needs to realize this will not last for much longer, Uber is here for the short-term with their current business model, just long enough for the VC/Travis/Etc. to cash out. Will there be drivers when prices come down to 50 cents a mile? Maybe, but the quality will become such shit that only the most desperate will drive and in return provide shitty to no service. It's pretty simple folks, Uber is shooting itself in the foot for the long-term, but for the short-term they're going to make bank.


----------



## Actionjax

Uberdawg said:


> Reading impaired? Miss the part about in this area Uber is the *only *supplier? There is no Lyft, Sidecar etc... here. And I thought Uber was Ridesharing and not a Taxi service. I don't want oranges, I want apples. So taxi doesn't apply.
> 
> I am able to make this work for me just as you say you are able to do. We have totally different rates than many others. The apple supplier is allowing us to sell his apples for a higher price than some of our competitors therefore we can make money selling his apples where others may not be able to.
> 
> I also get confused when people say it's a subcontracting agreement, who is subcontracting from who? Supposedly Uber is just a technology platform that I use to generate leads in my business as an Independant Contractor. That kind of sounds like they are my sub contractor. But in this case, my subcontractor can set the rates?
> 
> Or is Uber much more than simply a lead generator and are in fact contracting me to provide a service for them since they set rates, acceptance and cancellation rates etc...


Sorry I guess I did miss that. As much as you may think that they are your subcontractor it reality you are theirs. They feed you. And they can starve you just as easily. Unless you have fixed contract with terms on rates you are screwed. No different when I sign something with suppliers for the Bank. We have terms that clearly state what we pay and what we get in return.

Sidecar model is a great system for drivers for the most part. But we all know how well they are doing.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> Sorry I guess I did miss that. As much as you may think that they are your subcontractor it reality you are theirs. They feed you. And they can starve you just as easily. Unless you have fixed contract with terms on rates you are screwed. No different when I sign something with suppliers for the Bank. We have terms that clearly state what we pay and what we get in return.
> 
> Sidecar model is a great system for drivers for the most part. But we all know how well they are doing.


According to how Uber is doing their IRS filings for 2014, there is only one thing Uber pays drivers for... and that's referral fees. They pay drivers for all referrals of new riders and new drivers. This is why that revenue is reported to the IRS on an 1099-MISC. Nothing else... absolutely NOTHING else is reported by Uber to the IRS as Uber paying drivers for anythings. So drivers are only contractors for Uber if they are doing referrals. Driving Uber calls does NOT make the driver a contractor of Uber according to how that revenue is reported to the IRS. It make Uber a contractor of the driver. The driver is paying Uber for lead, payment processing, insurance and software services.

Based on how Uber filed with the IRS in 2013, drivers WERE contracted for their driving, because driver received 1099- MISC for their share of the fares.

Uber may pay dearly for this change in how they file with the IRS.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> LMAO! Are you forgetting how many times Uber was sued by governments in 2014 alone? Sometimes you really go off the deep end in your pro-uber rhetoric. So much so you claim things obviously wrong.


Just because local governments have challenged Uber in 2014 there are many more signing deals with them. And those who do are able to headline their win's with it. Regardless of what the truth is. This works well for those who are facing a chance that they won't get re-elected. Signing the deal with the devil gives them another term in office.

Do you look at the world through the right optics I wonder or just through your moral compass. I commend you for holding your beliefs, but that's not what's happening on the streets. If you are looking to defeat the Uber Giant you need to understand it a little better. Not just from the optics of a driver.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> According to how Uber is doing their IRS filings for 2014, there is only one thing Uber pays drivers for... and that's referral fees. They pay drivers for all referrals of new riders and new drivers. This is why that revenue is reported to the IRS on an 1099-MISC. Nothing else... absolutely NOTHING else is reported by Uber to the IRS as Uber paying drivers for anythings. So drivers are only contractors for Uber if they are doing referrals. Driving Uber calls does NOT make the driver a contractor of Uber according to how that revenue is reported to the IRS. It make Uber a contractor of the driver. The driver is paying Uber for lead, payment processing, insurance and software services.
> 
> Based on how Uber filed with the IRS in 2013, drivers WERE contracted for their driving, because driver received 1099- MISC for their share of the fares.
> 
> Uber may pay dearly for this change in how they file with the IRS.


I would say talk to a Tax attorney if you feel it's wrong. I'm sure Uber already has and just found another loophole to expose.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> Just because local governments have challenged Uber in 2014 there are many more signing deals with them. And those who do are able to headline their win's with it. Regardless of what the truth is. This works well for those who are facing a chance that they won't get re-elected. Signing the deal with the devil gives them another term in office.
> 
> Do you look at the world through the right optics I wonder or just through your moral compass. I commend you for holding your beliefs, but that's not what's happening on the streets. If you are looking to defeat the Uber Giant you need to understand it a little better. Not just from the optics of a driver.


I form my opinion base on what I see, not on what I hope transpires. I know you want Uber to succeed. Sometimes I think that desire clouds your observation.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> I would say talk to a Tax attorney if you feel it's wrong. I'm sure Uber already has and just found another loophole to expose.


Where did I say it's wrong? It's a completely valid way of filing. But it establishes Uber on the opposite side of the contracting relationship in 2014 than it was in 2013.


----------



## ubervictim

Uber is a transportation service, ride sharing is a made up term. It would be ride sharing if there was no minimum on acceptance rate, you were allowed to pick and choose your riders based on destination, no minimum driver rating, prices were negotiated instead of forced down our throats, etc. The fact that uber hides behind their "you can be deactivated for any reason" policy gives them the ability to make this a transportation service without actually saying it is. They force policies that make it a transportation service but hide behind the guise of "we have no official policies". It's all smoke and mirrors. The whole business model is based on slipping through legal cracks and that's insane. It's all about making as much money as possible and gaining as much market share as possible before the government finds out the whole thing is a sham. It's a scheme.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> I form my opinion base on what I see, not on what I hope transpires. I know you want Uber to succeed. Sometimes I think that desire clouds your observation.


Don't get me wrong here. I want Uber to succeed. I want Drivers to succeed. And most of all I want an alternative to Taxi services that have exploited passengers. (since we are talking about exploitation).

What Uber is doing is what all big businesses have done. Reduce costs, increase revenue, and hammer your competition. If Uber does not follow these rules they won't survive. Because someone else will do it.

All you can do is convince customers that they are exploiting others, good luck with that as people in general don't care till it's such a moral dilemma they will rally behind it. And frankly this is not an issue in their lives.

As I said before my strategy is to work with all the players in my market to sway the opinions of law makers to give a sustainable platform for the consumer. I personally don't have a stake in all drivers concerns, but I also don't have a full stake in Uber's either. I'm neutral to both and only care to have another option in the market.
How we get there is an ongoing give and take situation. Uber has less give in these negotiations from what I have experienced. Like most companies do in a position of power. Right now they have it. And getting rid of it is like pulling off a Band-Aid. Everyone is too chicken shit to pull it off just yet.


----------



## Uberdawg

Actionjax said:


> I would say talk to a Tax attorney if you feel it's wrong. I'm sure Uber already has and just found another loophole to expose.


That is precisely the point. It is the exploitation of loopholes that has allowed Uber to get where it has. How long will this be able to last? When will they go one loophole too far? My guess, is they already have. Uber has enjoyed phenomenal growth over the past few years by exploiting anyone and everything in it's path. They basically enjoyed positive press during this huge growth. Now, you almost never see a positive article about Uber or it's practices unless they generated it themselves.

Uber is just ahead of the curve now. When companies tend to use loopholes and shady tactics to accomplish goals, it gets exposed and these same elected officials you speak of that love Uber now, will be divorced when the shit hits the fan. People running from a tsunami don't run away as fast as politicians from a pariah.


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## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> All you can do is convince customers that they are exploiting others,


What?!? I'm not even bothering with Uber's customers. Even when I was driving, all the customers ever heard from me was how great driving for Uber is. They don't want to hear the truth. I lie to keep my rating high.

Government won't step in and limit the exploitation because of customers. It will do it to protect the drivers.


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## ubervictim

Why is anybody still arguing with Actionjax? I have read probably 30 or 40 of his posts and replies and it's certainly safe to say he does not have the same opinion of most of the people on this board. He takes issue with facts and logic and the real concerns voiced on this forum. I don't know why he doesn't understand what's going on but it's like arguing with a wall. Just stop lol. Maybe it's his Canadian pacifism. Or maybe it's because Canada isn't nearly as screwed up and run into the ground by corporations as the US. But down here we are getting quite sick of it.


----------



## Uberdawg

I get some of his points, we just happen to differ on more. He is interested in how Uber affects him and only him. Even though I can still make money doing this, I realize it is simply a matter of rates. All the smarts in the world can't make me turn a profit at the rates some drivers have to use. I just happen to have empathy with those have been suckered into shitty leases, lied to about potential income etc... They never lied to me because I never saw an ad. I had used the service and thought this would be a pretty cool way to make a few extra bucks in my downtime. All that said, I play any game I play to win. And I don't mind running up the score. Uber is allowing me personally to win, but not by the same numbers as before. Just because I can still make a few bucks, doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.


----------



## UberHammer

ubervictim said:


> Why is anybody still arguing with Actionjax? I have read probably 30 or 40 of his posts and replies and it's certainly safe to say he does not have the same opinion of most of the people on this board. He takes issue with facts and logic and the real concerns voiced on this forum. I don't know why he doesn't understand what's going on but it's like arguing with a wall. Just stop lol. Maybe it's his Canadian pacifism. Or maybe it's because Canada isn't nearly as screwed up and run into the ground by corporations as the US. But down here we are getting quite sick of it.


As a consumer he wants Uber to succeed. Uber also wants Uber to succeed. So sometimes both of them sound in sync.

Unfortunately the consumer can't benefit from a company unless both the workforce of the company and the shareholders of the company both benefit. If one side is not benefiting from the existence of the company, then the consumer won't benefit from the company... because it will eventually cease to exist.

The problem is not only does Uber not give a shit if its workforce benefits, it feels entitled to exploit the poor, desperate and unemployed. Historically speaking, this has never ended well. So until this is resolved one way or another, there's no guarantee consumers will benefit from Uber... and that's troubling to him. As such, he chimes in, and sounds like he's on Uber's side. He's actually on the consumer's side, but they aren't a side in the issue, other than being innocent bystanders.


----------



## Super G

Hackenstein said:


> I have a question. What ****ing right does Uber have to do virtual street hails in NYC. That right is reserved by law to yellow cabs. What right do you have to price gouge while real cabs cannot. I know... Chhabra approved all of it before he got paid for his soul by Kalanick. What an awesome company, screwing with people who work one of the hardest jobs out there, because some psychopath silicon valley shithead needs another couple Billion in his pocket.[/QUOTE What are you calling a "virtual street hail"? In D.C. they will impound your car.


----------



## Super G

What are you calling a "virtual street hail"? In D.C. they will impound your car.


----------



## Hackenstein

Super G said:


> What are you calling a "virtual street hail"? In D.C. they will impound your car.


Pushing a button on an app on the street and having a car show up in a few minutes.

Far too similar to an actual street hail.

It's just one of the billion legal loopholes they jump through, like using a phone as a taximeter. Somehow it's not a meter because it uses GPS. What an absurd joke. Such unreal corruption.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> As a consumer he wants Uber to succeed. Uber also wants Uber to succeed. So sometimes both of them sound in sync.
> 
> Unfortunately the consumer can't benefit from a company unless both the workforce of the company and the shareholders of the company both benefit. If one side is not benefiting from the existence of the company, then the consumer won't benefit from the company... because it will eventually cease to exist.
> 
> The problem is not only does Uber not give a shit if its workforce benefits, it feels entitled to exploit the poor, desperate and unemployed. Historically speaking, this has never ended well. So until this is resolved one way or another, there's no guarantee consumers will benefit from Uber... and that's troubling to him. As such, he chimes in, and sounds like he's on Uber's side. He's actually on the consumer's side, but they aren't a side in the issue, other than being innocent bystanders.


Interesting take on the issues, but not fully accurate from my optics. There* is* a consumer side to this issue. Just not one in alignment with the Driver issue. If there wasn't a Consumer side to the overall transportation issue Uber would not exist. It was born out of issues with the existing Taxi model. One that did not adapt to the consumer in a new high tech world. Uber is capitalizing that need at the expense of the drivers. And Consumers are reaping the benefits as we speak. For how long well that will be the real test won't it. We are already seeing in many markets quality drop and longer wait times. Uber promised the consumer safe reliable transportation at a touch of a button. And unless that changes the consumer gets exactly that. Again at a cost to the driving population, but these are the same consumers that are fine buying any number of goods overseas while exploiting a workforce. It's the American way.

Like it or not, that's reality. The reality also states unless you are organized with a single voice nothing will change. And based on how diverse things are and what's important to an individual, what hoe do you have of change.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> If there wasn't a Consumer side to the overall transportation issue Uber would not exist. It was born out of issues with the existing Taxi model.


This is blatantly false!

Uber was born because Travis and his buddy said they should just be able to push a button on their smart phone and get a black car. So they built the app and signed up existing black car companies to use it. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with the taxi industry.

It was LYFT that copied what Travis did with the black car industry and ported it to signing non-commercial drivers to give rides. When Lyft became popular, Travis created UberX to compete with Lyft and began price wars in cities where Lyft was operating. This is where the Taxi industry began taking the hit.

Uber was NOT born out of the existing Taxi model as you claim.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> This is blatantly false!
> 
> Uber was born because Travis and his buddy said they should just be able to push a button on their smart phone and get a black car. So they built the app and signed up existing black car companies to use it. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with the taxi industry.
> 
> It was LYFT that copied what Travis did with the black car industry and ported it to signing non-commercial drivers to give rides. When Lyft became popular, Travis created UberX to compete with Lyft and began price wars in cities where Lyft was operating. This is where the Taxi industry began taking the hit.
> 
> Uber was NOT born out of the existing Taxi model as you claim.


Your kidding right. If there was no need there would be no Uber. Why would someone wait for a ride when there is a perfectly good one right on every street corner in the city.

I think without you knowing why Uber exists you have no hope in understanding how to deal with the issues.

Fact is I don't need to convince you. It's happening weather you believe it or not. And saying it has nothing to do with the Taxi industry is short sighted. It was invented out of an opportunity. And a weak Taxi industry was ripe for the picking.

But hey that's my take on it. And the evidence speaks for itself.


----------



## Uberdawg

Actionjax said:


> We are already seeing in many markets quality drop and longer wait times. Uber promised the consumer safe reliable transportation at a touch of a button. And unless that changes the consumer gets exactly that.


But in these two sentences you are saying that it is in fact changing. Uber promised *safe and reliable transportation at the touch of a button*. But if the quality is eroding and wait times are longer, what the hell is safe and reliable about that. And as rates drop, it will only continue to get worse. If Lyft was on it's toes, it would give Uber the gutter market and concentrate on the passengers that do in fact want safe and reliable transportation at the touch of button. Those are the pax that don't give a shit about the price, so be higher, pay your drivers more and you get all the best drivers for the best passengers and Uber is left with the shit.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> Your kidding right. If there was no need there would be no Uber. Why would someone wait for a ride when there is a perfectly good one right on every street corner in the city.
> 
> I think without you knowing why Uber exists you have no hope in understanding how to deal with the issues.
> 
> Fact is I don't need to convince you. It's happening weather you believe it or not. And saying it has nothing to do with the Taxi industry is short sighted. It was invented out of an opportunity. And a weak Taxi industry was ripe for the picking.
> 
> But hey that's my take on it. And the evidence speaks for itself.


I've told you the history as factual as it can be told. What Uber is today is not what it was born to be. The goalposts of Uber have changed numerous times over the years. Hell, Travis was even on record calling Lyft ILLEGAL before he created UberX to compete with it.


----------



## Actionjax

Uberdawg said:


> But in these two sentences you are saying that it is in fact changing. Uber promised *safe and reliable transportation at the touch of a button*. But if the quality is eroding and wait times are longer, what the hell is safe and reliable about that. And as rates drop, it will only continue to get worse. If Lyft was on it's toes, it would give Uber the gutter market and concentrate on the passengers that do in fact want safe and reliable transportation at the touch of button. Those are the pax that don't give a shit about the price, so be higher, pay your drivers more and you get all the best drivers for the best passengers and Uber is left with the shit.


I completely agree, if the market shifts to not meet the consumer needs the Uber $ will drop. Sales will drop, and people will migrate to other forms or complain more. It will be a market ripe for a new better service. That's the nature of things.

My own company had this happen in early 2000 when they went from #1 in the market to #2 for the fist time in 30 years. What was the reason. Customer dissatisfaction. We went on a hack and slash campaign to cut costs. Close branches, push people to all digital strategies. People hated it and the upper brass said tough. Well eyes were wide open to make changes when we posted our worst year in the market.

Sometimes a company needs to fail before a change comes in. We now spend record amounts of money on the customer experience. And guess what profits have increased.

Consumers control the fate of Uber. Drivers to a lesser extent. But I am hopeful what's happening around here is resonating with Uber as we se more surges and les drivers when they are needed most. Lets see if that translates to anything.


----------



## Uberdawg

Actionjax said:


> I completely agree, if the market shifts to not meet the consumer needs the Uber $ will drop. Sales will drop, and people will migrate to other forms or complain more. It will be a market ripe for a new better service. That's the nature of things.
> 
> My own company had this happen in early 2000 when they went from #1 in the market to #2 for the fist time in 30 years. What was the reason. Customer dissatisfaction. We went on a hack and slash campaign to cut costs. Close branches, push people to all digital strategies. People hated it and the upper brass said tough. Well eyes were wide open to make changes when we posted our worst year in the market.
> 
> Sometimes a company needs to fail before a change comes in. We now spend record amounts of money on the customer experience. And guess what profits have increased.
> 
> Consumers control the fate of Uber. Drivers to a lesser extent. But I am hopeful what's happening around here is resonating with Uber as we se more surges and les drivers when they are needed most. Lets see if that translates to anything.


Agreed. Guess that has been my point all along. Uber works for some, not all. The story you told of your company is all too familiar in business. I think Uber will be a case study in Management classes in the future. How not to screw up a really good thing but companies do it all the time and learn the lesson the hard way, like yours did. In the end, it really is about the consumer.

Wal Mart has it's market and is a force to be reckoned with. Why they pretty much own their segment. There is no up market to Wal Mart but there are numerous alternatives for shoppers who want service along with products. Higher end grocery stores are doing great as Wal Mart sucks all of the air out of the low cost grocery market. Costco went more upscale than Sams and they do quite well. Why I say Lyft should give up on trying to beat Uber at its own game. They can be extremely profitable doing the same thing, just better.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> I've told you the history as factual as it can be told. What Uber is today is not what it was born to be. The goalposts of Uber have changed numerous times over the years. Hell, Travis was even on record calling Lyft ILLEGAL before he created UberX to compete with it.


Regardless of how the model has evolved. Uber was born out of an App using existing limo and taxi services. As the current dispatch model and customer experience was not up to par with what customers wanted. Areas of issue.

1)Inaccurate pickups where clients would call for a cab and it may or may not show up and inaccurate wait times.
2) Credit card refusal
3) Quality control
4) Efficient escalations of issues.

This is just a few items. Not saying Uber is perfect but they did provide a better outlet than the existing industry provided. And that's why customers love it. Even before UberX came along.


----------



## Actionjax

Uberdawg said:


> Agreed. Guess that has been my point all along. Uber works for some, not all. The story you told of your company is all too familiar in business. I think Uber will be a case study in Management classes in the future. How not to screw up a really good thing but companies do it all the time and learn the lesson the hard way, like yours did. In the end, it really is about the consumer.
> 
> Wal Mart has it's market and is a force to be reckoned with. Why they pretty much own their segment. There is no up market to Wal Mart but there are numerous alternatives for shoppers who want service along with products. Higher end grocery stores are doing great as Wal Mart sucks all of the air out of the low cost grocery market. Costco went more upscale than Sams and they do quite well. Why I say Lyft should give up on trying to beat Uber at its own game. They can be extremely profitable doing the same thing, just better.


Completely agree. I think Lyft can be the saving grace on Uber dominance. If drivers worked with Lyft for them to grow, you could fid yourself with a new dominant player. People will go to where they feel the better product is. That means what they wanted in the first place. But it will take the right type of driver to make that happen.


----------



## observer

Actionjax said:


> I completely agree, if the market shifts to not meet the consumer needs the Uber $ will drop. Sales will drop, and people will migrate to other forms or complain more. It will be a market ripe for a new better service. That's the nature of things.
> 
> My own company had this happen in early 2000 when they went from #1 in the market to #2 for the fist time in 30 years. What was the reason. Customer dissatisfaction. We went on a hack and slash campaign to cut costs. Close branches, push people to all digital strategies. People hated it and the upper brass said tough. Well eyes were wide open to make changes when we posted our worst year in the market.
> 
> Sometimes a company needs to fail before a change comes in. We now spend record amounts of money on the customer experience. And guess what profits have increased.
> 
> Consumers control the fate of Uber. Drivers to a lesser extent. But I am hopeful what's happening around here is resonating with Uber as we se more surges and les drivers when they are needed most. Lets see if that translates to anything.


If you aren't occasionally failing, you aren't trying hard enough.


----------



## UberCemetery

john djjjoe said:


> Uber cares about drivers like you care about toilet paper.


I like that one


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> Regardless of how the model has evolved. Uber was born out of an App using existing limo and taxi services. As the current dispatch model and customer experience was not up to par with what customers wanted. Areas of issue.
> 
> 1)Inaccurate pickups where clients would call for a cab and it may or may not show up and inaccurate wait times.
> 2) Credit card refusal
> 3) Quality control
> 4) Efficient escalations of issues.
> 
> This is just a few items. Not saying Uber is perfect but they did provide a better outlet than the existing industry provided. And that's why customers love it. Even before UberX came along.


Whatever.... none of this is here nor there in regards to the driver/shareholder issue. If they can't reach a limited exploitive equilibrium on their own, the government will force the issue, which could bring Uber crashing down. Then another company steps in to meet the consumer demand. So despite understanding your consumer point of view here, I don't understand why you are hitching your wagon to Uber. Everything you've said you like is about the business model, not the company. Uber doesn't have a patent on the business model. In fact, there's very little intellectual property they own that makes it work. The backbone of it is Google's technology.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> Whatever.... none of this is here nor there in regards to the driver/shareholder issue. If they can't reach a limited exploitive equilibrium on their own, the government will force the issue, which could bring Uber crashing down. Then another company steps in to meet the consumer demand. So despite understanding your consumer point of view here, I don't understand why you are hitching your wagon to Uber. Everything you've said you like is about the business model, not the company. Uber doesn't have a patent on the business model. In fact, there's very little intellectual property they own that makes it work. The backbone of it is Google's technology.


I wish there were more competitors in the market. I have invited Lyft numerous times to come to Toronto to discuss expansion plans. I get the same canned response from their teams that the US market strategy is right now their only focal point. They wouldn't be able to handle the fight up here. (In essence they are letting Uber pave the way).

We are a market ripe for another player. But right now all we have is Uber. So I'm not interested in bringing Uber down, I'm interested in putting a leash on things. And if that strategy does not work or becomes an issue it will be easy to change that strategy putting the dog down.

Lawmakers do hold power, we have some in draft form on hold that would essentially make Uber Illegal in the province of Ontario. Would grant municipalities to lay $10,000 fines for the first offence and increase up to $100,000 for further infractions. This includes the ability to tow and impound cars. Something not available today.

Is this good for the consumer, no it is not. Too many people will be caught up in this bill. But it would be easy to get behind it.

I'm not looking for Ubers head on a platter, we all understand my stance on that. But change is needed for this to be a long term sustainability of the transportation industry. How that's achieved is through negotiations and finding common ground. Does Uber have some, yes they do. But don't get me wrong they also will fight tooth and nail to get what they want as well, like any good company protects it's shareholders.

Business and Morality is a fine line. I'm happy to be working for a company that has a great moral compass. It will be interesting to see how our joint venture pans out and how moral we are in the end. Business could trump that.


----------



## someguy

Actionjax said:


> Uber is just the easiest and worst paid one for some.


Not to hijack the thread, but Postmates does not pay better than Uber. I worked their busiest day on record like a madman and made maybe half what I would have with the normal regular guarantees.


----------



## Actionjax

someguy said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but Postmates does not pay better than Uber. I worked their busiest day on record like a madman and made maybe half what I would have with the normal regular guarantees.


But postmates you can use a motorcycle. That could cut down on the cost. But that's a guess on my part. I don't really know how well they pay. There was a guy on here who said it was good. So I made an assumption.


----------



## Uberdawg

Uber cares about drivers like you care about toilet paper.
I like that one 

I actually care about toilet paper a lot. Only Charmin Ultra Soft for my tender cheeks.


----------



## UberHammer

Uberdawg said:


> Uber cares about drivers like you care about toilet paper.
> I like that one
> 
> I actually care about toilet paper a lot. Only Charmin Ultra Soft for my tender cheeks.


Exactly! If Uber is going to wipe their ass with me, I'm taking the opportunity to cause damage.

Not all of us drivers are as soft as Randy.


----------



## Yarrick

I think what surprises me is how many people are upset because of a feeling of unfairness from Uber...The taxi drivers hate Uber because they feel it is unfair to their current business model, the Uber drivers feel it is unfair because Uber is more interested in growing their company than worried about what the drivers make. The OP has stated this in many different ways but people keep adding... but what about this?.. and what about that?.... The only way Uber will change any policy is when they see a benefit for Uber only......You want Uber to change then give them a reason to... Bad press is about your only real avenue unless you can somehow organize all Uber drivers..good luck with that. 
Remember this company is heading to a huge payday for its Investors through an IPO... so the only thing that matters is what effects that IPO.... A good IPO needs feel good press and at least the illusion of a working business model. As the OP said there is more than enough new drivers out there to keep things going till the IPO happens and everyone has cashed out....Follow the money.


----------



## UberHammer

Yarrick said:


> I think what surprises me is how many people are upset because of a feeling of unfairness from Uber...The taxi drivers hate Uber because they feel it is unfair to their current business model, the Uber drivers feel it is unfair because Uber is more interested in growing their company than worried about what the drivers make. The OP has stated this in many different ways but people keep adding... but what about this?.. and what about that?.... The only way Uber will change any policy is when they see a benefit for Uber only......You want Uber to change then give them a reason to... Bad press is about your only real avenue unless you can somehow organize all Uber drivers..good luck with that.
> Remember this company is heading to a huge payday for its Investors through an IPO... so the only thing that matters is what effects that IPO.... A good IPO needs feel good press and at least the illusion of a working business model. As the OP said there is more than enough new drivers out there to keep things going till the IPO happens and everyone has cashed out....Follow the money.


You left out riders feel it is unfair to be scammed by surge fares when they need a ride the most.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> You left out riders feel it is unfair to be scammed by surge fares when they need a ride the most.


Riders are idiots who complain about surge. If they feel ripped off go wait an hour for a taxi. This is a business. Not a charity.

Call it what you will most people were happy with the surge on Halloween when they got a ride in 5 minutes and their guests at a party waited almost 2 hours for a taxi to show up.

Everyone hates to pay more. But most hate to be stranded more than that.

Don't like it take a taxi.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> Riders are idiots who complain about surge. If they feel ripped off go wait an hour for a taxi. This is a business. Not a charity.
> 
> Call it what you will most people were happy with the surge on Halloween when they got a ride in 5 minutes and their guests at a party waited almost 2 hours for a taxi to show up.
> 
> Everyone hates to pay more. But most hate to be stranded more than that.
> 
> Don't like it take a taxi.


Right! Intelligent consumers gladly pay $18.50 for a Big Mac during the lunch rush.


----------



## Uberdawg

Actionjax said:


> Riders are idiots who complain about surge. If they feel ripped off go wait an hour for a taxi. This is a business. Not a charity.
> 
> Call it what you will most people were happy with the surge on Halloween when they got a ride in 5 minutes and their guests at a party waited almost 2 hours for a taxi to show up.
> 
> Everyone hates to pay more. But most hate to be stranded more than that.
> 
> Don't like it take a taxi.


I am not sure that is true. I think they received so much pushback from passengers and the media because of Halloween, that is why we saw the emails before New Years warning about surges. Probably why NYE sucked so bad.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> Right! Intelligent consumers gladly pay $18.50 for a Big Mac during the lunch rush.


Different business model. But why do I pay more for the same item in a grocery store in one neighbourhood than another. Exact same chain but jacked prices because of its location. Same thing.

Ever heard of commodities trading. Prices surge when demand is high. Uber does not hide surges. Its part of their business.

But as you see when public lashes out at them like the terrorist situation in Australia Uber changes course. The key is the customer was the instrument of change, not drivers.

Wonder how many shut down their Uber phones to take people out for free. Most likely more turned on to take advantage of surge.


----------



## Actionjax

Uberdawg said:


> I am not sure that is true. I think they received so much pushback from passengers and the media because of Halloween, that is why we saw the emails before New Years warning about surges. Probably why NYE sucked so bad.


Surge is always a controversial topic. Uber had their PR machine working overtime on NYE.


----------



## Uberdawg

Actionjax said:


> Surge is always a controversial topic. Uber had their PR machine working overtime on NYE.


And totally screwed up NYE for the drivers by scaring everyone into another form of transportation. But the fact remains that public resistance to the surge prices caused the PR reaction. So there was a negative reaction to the Halloween surges and the passengers did resent having to pay the extra.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> Different business model. But why do I pay more for the same item in a grocery store in one neighbourhood than another. Exact same chain but jacked prices because of its location. Same thing.
> 
> Ever heard of commodities trading. Prices surge when demand is high. Uber does not hide surges. Its part of their business.
> 
> But as you see when public lashes out at them like the terrorist situation in Australia Uber changes course. The key is the customer was the instrument of change, not drivers.
> 
> Wonder how many shut down their Uber phones to take people out for free. Most likely more turned on to take advantage of surge.


Gas is priced exactly how you are talking about... but when was the last time you had to pay 4.5 times the amount it was selling at an hour ago?


----------



## Yarrick

UberHammer said:


> You left out riders feel it is unfair to be scammed by surge fares when they need a ride the most.


Well I didn't see any riders complaining on this post unless I missed it, I was mainly referring to previous posters. Also the riders are not really complaining, Uber keeps getting more and more riders everyday. Rider numbers are part of their IPO image, when they can roll out to Investors that we have increased ridership metric numbers year over year, a few complainers do not matter. Remember this is all about the data that matters for the IPO... "Warm happy feelings about a startup tech company with more and more riders every year taking over the transportation industry".... as long as they keep that image they win with a huge IPO payout. Driver satisfaction is not part of that equation. Only by disrupting the IPO rollout can you cause change with UBER, that's it folks. Best thing you can do is go to the news organizations about crazy high fares you have received, the news right now loves Uber surge stories, get more out to them.


----------



## scrurbscrud

I have long contemplated large corporate exploitation and have experienced it many times in direct business encounters on many monetary scales.

Ultimately the only reaction you have as a participant is not to be involved with them if you don't like what they are doing.

So, that is my stance. If I don't like it, I don't play. I don't pay. Pretty simple premise. And the only response that any 'individual' is really entitled to have.

I know that many here don't like to hear, 'if you don't like it, quit.' But that is the only action you as a disgruntled driver are entitled to. You may also choose to only stab at surge pricing, which is also a valid 'individual' driver reaction to lower pricing exploitation. Not saying that is as valid, but it does pay better, which is the major ***** of almost every driver here.

If you don't like the pay, don't do it. Either quit or wait for the times that it does pay.

That is thee ONLY reaction you as an individual are entitled to have.


----------



## frndthDuvel

Wow! 20,000 plus views for this thread. How many unique viewers? That would be nice to see.


----------



## UberHammer

Yarrick said:


> Well I didn't see any riders complaining on this post unless I missed it, I was mainly referring to previous posters. Also the riders are not really complaining, Uber keeps getting more and more riders everyday. Rider numbers are part of their IPO image, when they can roll out to Investors that we have increased ridership metric numbers year over year, a few complainers do not matter. Remember this is all about the data that matters for the IPO... "Warm happy feelings about a startup tech company with more and more riders every year taking over the transportation industry".... as long as they keep that image they win with a huge IPO payout. Driver satisfaction is not part of that equation. Only by disrupting the IPO rollout can you cause change with UBER, that's it folks. Best thing you can do is go to the news organizations about crazy high fares you have received, the news right now loves Uber surge stories, get more out to them.


A high influx of new riders hides the amount of riders Uber is losing. It's losing more riders due to the quality of drivers and cars tanking with the lower rates than it is to surge. But make no mistake, Uber is bleeding customers, even while increasing customer counts. Eventually that graph changes direction. But you're right, as long as that change in direction occurs post-IPO, the venture capitalists have their exit strategy.


----------



## john djjjoe

frndthDuvel said:


> Wow! 20,000 plus views for this thread. How many unique viewers? That would be nice to see.


seven.


----------



## rideshareprincess

I have a question about ratings. I know that a driver is "at risk for deactivation" if they're below 4.6, but it's not guaranteed that they're going to be deactivated. Is there a minimum rating where there IS a guaranteed deactivation? I would think it's something really low... like below 4.0? Is that a thing?


----------



## scrurbscrud

rideshareprincess said:


> I have a question about ratings. I know that a driver is "at risk for deactivation" if they're below 4.6, but it's not guaranteed that they're going to be deactivated. Is there a minimum rating where there IS a guaranteed deactivation? I would think it's something really low... like below 4.0? Is that a thing?


I rate you 3 stars for 'is that a thing?'


----------



## elelegido

rideshareprincess said:


> Is that a thing?


I really, really hope that "is that a thing?" does not enter common usage.


----------



## scrurbscrud

elelegido said:


> I really, really hope that "is that a thing?" does not enter common usage.


Just add 'like' in front of it..it'll be ok.


----------



## elelegido

scrurbscrud said:


> Just add 'like' in front of it..it'll be ok.


That would be hella cool.


----------



## scrurbscrud

elelegido said:


> That would be hella cool.


Do some of your pax sound like babies talking in yer backseat? Must be the drugs.


----------



## elelegido

scrurbscrud said:


> Do some of your pax sound like babies talking in yer backseat? Must be the drugs.


Nah, each new generation invents their own lingo with which to irritate every generation above them; that's all it is. It's just a slight annoyance.

Except for the new vocal fry nonsense that 20 something women now use. That is just hideous. When I get a vocal fryer in my car I want the offender out asap.


----------



## scrurbscrud

elelegido said:


> Nah, each new generation invents their own lingo with which to irritate every generation above them; that's all it is. It's just a slight annoyance.
> 
> Except for the new vocal fry nonsense that 20 something women now use. That is just hideous. When I get a vocal fryer in my car I want the offender out asap.
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=0aj2VJK5HofzoASXkoDwDw&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YEqVgtLQ7qM&ved=0CB8QtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNHy7Lk8Pc0aRKvq0FHJHKIOD8MGRA&sig2=8LY_kMhXp0Sm-TpvfQnBhQ


I liked the pic 'and here's what it looks like.' Thought it was a porn shot for a sec.


----------



## john djjjoe

elelegido said:


> I really, really hope that "is that a thing?" does not enter common usage.


Common usage... Is that a thing now?


----------



## elelegido

john djjjoe said:


> Common usage... Is that a thing now?


When is the upgrade of the driver support function to the Phillipines going to happen? I asked a CSR about this a while ago but she reacted as if I'd touched a raw nerve. Can you shed some light? I'm really looking forward to the new levels of service that this improvement will bring.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

I'm not a CSR but I'll answer the question ... two weeks in a row with less than a 4.6 rating gets you deactivated. (withMe it was two 4.4 weeks in a row). If You take the class and you get to drive again. But you have the same average rating you did before.


----------



## elelegido

Sacto Burbs said:


> BTW, I wrote directly to the ex-CSR asking if he would continue coming here if I filtered the questions and put the answers on a blog, to see if he would go for that. Amazing, no reply.
> 
> And so for the self absorbed posters who though it was ok to trash a new, really useful, arrival, note that this thread has 20,000 hits, and so if I were you I would watch your back ... actually I can't think of any useful threat so I'll just say - Cut It Out. Decent posters would sincerely apologize on this thread for screwing things up for the rest of us.


Meh, I'd give him 2* for usefulness of content. If he'd provided useful information I'd rate him higher.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

I give him a 5*.


----------



## Actionjax

I think he provided more a reality check for some. That has value in it's own way.


----------



## puber

elelegido said:


> Meh, I'd give him 2* for usefulness of content. If he'd provided useful information I'd rate him higher.


It't time to hit unwatch this thread


----------



## Uberdawg

His contributions:

Uber thinks of it's drivers as toilet paper
Uber does not care if drivers make money or not, their bottom line is what counts
Uber drivers are totally expendable with an unlimited supply
The poor CSR's are overworked and send out canned responses because Uber has a quota
Uber is going to take the customers side virtually every time
He doesn't think a whole hell of a lot of the posters on here (50% meaningless, 40% Lyft, 10% useful)
His attitude reflected his views of this forum listed above

Now, this was news to anyone? His only contribution was confirming what the 90% of the posters on this forum already think of Uber.


----------



## Lidman

Who trashed the newly arrivals? Randy? The Suberman, We know the dingo is on the good side of the force. hmmmm


----------



## The Kid

I called the Bank of America number on my CC. Nice lady answered. I asked her about the banks future business plans. She said."How would I know, I'm just a CSR here. I continued to ask more questions. She said,"Are you stupid. I answer stupid customer questions all day. They don't tell me about their plans".


----------



## puber

The Kid said:


> I called the Bank of America number on my CC. Nice lady answered. I asked her about the banks future business plans. She said."How would I know, I'm just a CSR here. I continued to ask more questions. She said,"Are you stupid. I answer stupid customer questions all day. They don't tell me about their plans".


Bofa csrs don't have to make shit up.
Uber gives their csrs zero training, and watches their ratings, so they all are stupid and eager to please in 20 seconds or less.
"Happy to clarify, let me copy/past some random bullshit, just to appear informative.
You've interrupted my ******* movie, btw, uber on!"


----------



## UberHammer

The Kid said:


> I called the Bank of America number on my CC. Nice lady answered. I asked her about the banks future business plans. She said."How would I know, I'm just a CSR here. I continued to ask more questions. She said,"Are you stupid. I answer stupid customer questions all day. They don't tell me about their plans".


Did she say "ask me anything"?


----------



## The Kid

Answer:Thank you for your inquiry. You are very important to us and we take your inquires very seriously. Please know the management is working very hard to solve your issues. You are the most important member of our business partnership. We stay awake nights working on ways to make your life better. Please feel free to contact us with any concerns or questions.

See, not that hard. I would be a great CSR.


----------



## observer

Uberdawg said:


> His contributions:
> 
> Uber thinks of it's drivers as toilet paper
> Uber does not care if drivers make money or not, their bottom line is what counts
> Uber drivers are totally expendable with an unlimited supply
> The poor CSR's are overworked and send out canned responses because Uber has a quota
> Uber is going to take the customers side virtually every time
> He doesn't think a whole hell of a lot of the posters on here (50% meaningless, 40% Lyft, 10% useful)
> His attitude reflected his views of this forum listed above
> 
> Now, this was news to anyone? His only contribution was confirming what the 90% of the posters on this forum already think of Uber.


Did you think he was going to write anything different?

All or most of us have been following this thread from the first post.

He only confirmed exactly what everyone suspected, but a lot of us just don't want to hear what we don't want hear.

The truth.


----------



## puber

observer said:


> Did you think he was going to write anything different?
> 
> All or most of us have been following this thread from the first post.
> 
> He only confirmed exactly what everyone suspected, but a lot of us just don't want to hear what we don't want hear.
> 
> The truth.


I asked him what kind of continuous training csrs receive, because their answers are always misleading, and he didn't bother to answer.
Good job on the most followed thread ever!


----------



## UberBlackPr1nce

Uberdawg said:


> His contributions:
> 
> Uber thinks of it's drivers as toilet paper
> Uber does not care if drivers make money or not, their bottom line is what counts
> Uber drivers are totally expendable with an unlimited supply
> The poor CSR's are overworked and send out canned responses because Uber has a quota
> Uber is going to take the customers side virtually every time
> He doesn't think a whole hell of a lot of the posters on here (50% meaningless, 40% Lyft, 10% useful)
> His attitude reflected his views of this forum listed above
> 
> Now, this was news to anyone? His only contribution was confirming what the 90% of the posters on this forum already think of Uber.


Well you guys asked useless questions so he gave you useless answers.... I suppose....


----------



## Uberdawg

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> Well you guys asked useless questions so he gave you useless answers.... I suppose....


I didn't ask him any questions. I already knew the answers. I was just responding to those he thought he gave great advice and made a wonderful contribution.


----------



## SCdave

Actionjax said:


> Riders are idiots who complain about surge. If they feel ripped off go wait an hour for a taxi. This is a business. Not a charity.
> 
> Call it what you will most people were happy with the surge on Halloween when they got a ride in 5 minutes and their guests at a party waited almost 2 hours for a taxi to show up.
> 
> Everyone hates to pay more. But most hate to be stranded more than that.
> 
> Don't like it take a taxi.


This is a Yes and No re Riders, Idiots and Surge Fares. Many Riders understand dynamic pricing and appreciate the choice.

But if there was not enough negative press/rider feedback that mattered, why did Uber decide to suspend Surge Pricing (or limit it...can't remember exactly since I'm on the West Coast and just read about it) when sever winter storms impacted the East Coast of the US?


----------



## Driveronedge

scrurbscrud said:


> I have long contemplated large corporate exploitation and have experienced it many times in direct business encounters on many monetary scales.
> 
> Ultimately the only reaction you have as a participant is not to be involved with them if you don't like what they are doing.
> 
> So, that is my stance. If I don't like it, I don't play. I don't pay. Pretty simple premise. And the only response that any 'individual' is really entitled to have.
> 
> I know that many here don't like to hear, 'if you don't like it, quit.' But that is the only action you as a disgruntled driver are entitled to. You may also choose to only stab at surge pricing, which is also a valid 'individual' driver reaction to lower pricing exploitation. Not saying that is as valid, but it does pay better, which is the major ***** of almost every driver here.
> 
> If you don't like the pay, don't do it. Either quit or wait for the times that it does pay.
> 
> That is thee ONLY reaction you as an individual are entitled to have.


Wrong. You have the Opt Out of Arbitration then you can go after them with both barrels pointed. Or join a class action lawsuit like the one in CA that's going to cost them SEVERAL MILLION.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Driveronedge said:


> Wrong. You have the Opt Out of Arbitration then you can go after them with both barrels pointed. Or join a class action lawsuit like the one in CA that's going to cost them SEVERAL MILLION.


Pretty funny.


----------



## john djjjoe

who wants to learn a secret?


----------



## Sacto Burbs

me, me, me ...


----------



## blueber

Can you help me with a problem I have with my rider app since your ex coworkers have been giving me the runaround for two days and they do not know how to fix the problem?

The problem is that when I log into my rider app, it asks me to verify the mobile number. When I do request the text, I receive it and reply GO, as instructed. I then get another text that says that my number is now linked to my Uber rider account. But when I try to use the Uber app to request rides, I am unable to because that same message appears, asking me to verify my phone number. I have been emailing support back and forth and it's like they are not even reading my messages. No one has a clue. Some of them think I am referring to my partner account when I repeatedly tell them that it's for my rider account. I was referred to the emergency help line. It was quite comical actually. This is really bad. And I thought Verizon had the worst customer service ever. Jeez...
Anyway, can you help with that, please?


----------



## scrurbscrud

blueber said:


> Can you help me with a problem I have with my rider app since your ex coworkers have been giving me the runaround for two days and they do not know how to fix the problem?
> 
> The problem is that when I log into my rider app, it asks me to verify the mobile number. When I do request the text, I receive it and reply GO, as instructed. I then get another text that says that my number is now linked to my Uber rider account. But when I try to use the Uber app to request rides, I am unable to because that same message appears, asking me to verify my phone number. I have been emailing support back and forth and it's like they are not even reading my messages. No one has a clue. Some of them think I am referring to my partner account when I repeatedly tell them that it's for my rider account. I was referred to the emergency help line. It was quite comical actually. This is really bad. And I thought Verizon had the worst customer service ever. Jeez...
> Anyway, can you help with that, please?


Call the Uber suicide hotline.


----------



## Uber-Doober

scrurbscrud said:


> Call the Uber suicide hotline.


^^^
They would just put you on hold.


----------



## Uber-Doober

blueber said:


> Can you help me with a problem I have with my rider app since your ex coworkers have been giving me the runaround for two days and they do not know how to fix the problem?
> 
> The problem is that when I log into my rider app, it asks me to verify the mobile number. When I do request the text, I receive it and reply GO, as instructed. I then get another text that says that my number is now linked to my Uber rider account. But when I try to use the Uber app to request rides, I am unable to because that same message appears, asking me to verify my phone number. I have been emailing support back and forth and it's like they are not even reading my messages. No one has a clue. Some of them think I am referring to my partner account when I repeatedly tell them that it's for my rider account. I was referred to the emergency help line. It was quite comical actually. This is really bad. And I thought Verizon had the worst customer service ever. Jeez...
> Anyway, can you help with that, please?


^^^
Take your phone back and exchange it.


----------



## Uberdawg

scrurbscrud said:


> Call the Uber suicide hotline.


You have to e mail them.


----------



## Uber-Doober

Uberdawg said:


> You have to e mail them.


^^^
And then they reply with: "Thank You For Reaching Out".


----------



## Montgomery

blueber said:


> Can you help me with a problem I have with my rider app since your ex coworkers have been giving me the runaround for two days and they do not know how to fix the problem?
> 
> The problem is that when I log into my rider app, it asks me to verify the mobile number. When I do request the text, I receive it and reply GO, as instructed. I then get another text that says that my number is now linked to my Uber rider account. But when I try to use the Uber app to request rides, I am unable to because that same message appears, asking me to verify my phone number. I have been emailing support back and forth and it's like they are not even reading my messages. No one has a clue. Some of them think I am referring to my partner account when I repeatedly tell them that it's for my rider account. I was referred to the emergency help line. It was quite comical actually. This is really bad. And I thought Verizon had the worst customer service ever. Jeez...
> Anyway, can you help with that, please?


I have the same issue. After some back and forth which included them asking me to send a picture of my ID and the credit card I put on the app only showing the last four digits to "remove the block" and then me recapping everything to a second person who wound up getting my emails, their final answer (from a third person) was for me to use a different email and google voice number for my rider app. They even mentioned the steps I should take on GV in order to get this done. I haven't done it yet. I wound up calling a regular Taxi when I first needed the car.


----------



## Actionjax

john djjjoe said:


> who wants to learn a secret?


I'm John djjjoe


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

UberBlackPr1nce said:


> Well we live in this world and unless you are God and can change it then you have accept it. If you don't accept it then you will always be upset. The powerful will always exploit the lesser it's been like this since the beginning of time and it will remain until we all die.


I'm pretty sure slavery was looked at that way by many in this country not too long ago.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> I'm John djjjoe


Damn.... I was hoping he was Travis.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

He mentioned he had equity in the company... Hmmm


----------



## Montgomery

john djjjoe said:


> who wants to learn a secret?


To prolong the suspense before you spill the beans, can you pleaser answer my questions? I inbox them to you as well and I got no reply. The other CSR we have here didn't know anything about it.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

someguy said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but Postmates does not pay better than Uber. I worked their busiest day on record like a madman and made maybe half what I would have with the normal regular guarantees.


But if you didn't have to work guarantees you could do both.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Montgomery said:


> To prolong the suspense before you spill the beans, can you pleaser answer my questions? I inbox them to you as well and I got no reply. The other CSR we have here didn't know anything about it.


Maybe Actionjax already answered the mystery question?


----------



## UberFizzle

someguy said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but Postmates does not pay better than Uber. I worked their busiest day on record like a madman and made maybe half what I would have with the normal regular guarantees.


I worked just 3 hours last night and made almost $50 with Postmates (my take home pay). And I didn't have to deal with any drunk or annoying passengers, or listen to pointless (and sometimes vulgar) conversations, or people screaming in my ear as they talk to the person sitting next to them.

Postmates just made a change to their app, too. Now, the default tip is set to a value of either 10, 15, or 20% (or a custom amount). The "No Tip" option is no longer the default. A large percentage of my earnings are typically from tips.

Uber doesn't even compare, even with their guarantees (and I'm in Orange County, which isn't among Postmates' busiest markets). However, I just got approved to be an Xpert Trainer, so I'll probably stay on the platform just to earn the easy $20 per session.


----------



## ginseng41

blueber said:


> Can you help me with a problem I have with my rider app since your ex coworkers have been giving me the runaround for two days and they do not know how to fix the problem?
> 
> The problem is that when I log into my rider app, it asks me to verify the mobile number. When I do request the text, I receive it and reply GO, as instructed. I then get another text that says that my number is now linked to my Uber rider account. But when I try to use the Uber app to request rides, I am unable to because that same message appears, asking me to verify my phone number. I have been emailing support back and forth and it's like they are not even reading my messages. No one has a clue. Some of them think I am referring to my partner account when I repeatedly tell them that it's for my rider account. I was referred to the emergency help line. It was quite comical actually. This is really bad. And I thought Verizon had the worst customer service ever. Jeez...
> Anyway, can you help with that, please?


If you are using the same e-mail for your driver account as you did on the passenger app, you won't be able to register it. I was told I had to use another email address when I tried. I responded that I had too many emails already and wasn't going to get a new one. I'd just take Lyft instead.


----------



## PoorBasterd

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> Kiss my ass elitist arrogant prick.


I would recommend that you seek out some anger management counselling....no seriously, you need it!


----------



## PoorBasterd

Hackenstein said:


> I drive a cab in NYC....


Ahhhhhhhhhh.... Now I know why your *****ing so much. Sorry my son but the Devine Right of Kings ended a long time ago.


----------



## Degaul68

john djjjoe said:


> Only allowed to have the crappy organic whole foods version at a west coast tech company, so no kool aid unfortunately.
> 
> Thank you for acknowledging this, based on the bulk of feedback I might as well not continue - nuance must be harder to pick up on than i'd anticipated.
> 
> Why do you want to keep people from using a service? If Uber *enters* a city no drivers have to sign up and no riders need to use it. This isn't like crime where you get a personal high and negative externalities drag down society as a whole (I am extremely confident that even in the event insurance doesnt pay out everything as soon as PR shows up the firm and its umbrellas will cover whatever needs to be covered although I'm still waiting to hear about what level of insurance coverage medallions/regular cabs do carry).
> 
> It's not about the shoes I'm wearing, if I didn't have a stake in the firm I would still recognize why and how the firm acts the way it does. I don't own and despise Walmart but understand why they do the things they do and would never try to *block* them from entering this city. I just don't shop there- if people decide the low prices are worth it then that's up to them.
> 
> How am I carrying a party line? Do you hear me saying this is a positive thing and I believe it is the *right* thing for the firm should do? Feels like you're describing me as a cheerleader of sorts. I'm painting Uber as a cold uncaring unfeeling money making machine that will try to keep you involved as long as you make it money, doesn't care about your profit margins (which come off linear costs as opposed to relatively fixed costs which Uber enjoys), and would adopt puppies if that was profitable.
> 
> I'm not saying there's an endless supply of people, what I'm saying is that the supply which exists is more than sufficient for the people running the company to consider the supply unlimited for our purposes. It's like the sun has unlimited electricity- not really, but by the time it runs out we will be gone (just as current management will be gone by the time drivers *run out*). Also keep in mind if that ever did happen Uber would easily just jack prices back up to attract the drivers it wanted (that's a very uncertain if however given the sheer numbers of people driving/onboarding).
> 
> As said previously, definitely if they had access to their parents' car, gas card, and insurance. I'll amend that to say only if their parents drive a German car and fill the car with hi test.
> 
> Dad- is that you?
> Man, I love John's matter-of-factly reples!! Folks he's saying it just like it is...corporate America!
> 
> And two gold stars* for you!
> 
> *the stickers, not the type which contribute to your rating, so they're actually worth something


----------



## PoorBasterd

Actionjax said:


> Do you have a point, or just a rant. I mean please continue...you are in the right place. I would suggest starting your own post for it. We need more of them.


So we'll know which threads not to waste precious time with...


----------



## PoorBasterd

Hackenstein said:


> The only reason 'Uber' is operating in NYC is because Ashwani Chhabra was bribed to distort the regulations and allow a phone app to be used


And do you have solid proof of that, that could stand on its own in a court of law? I'm not saying you're not correct, but unless you have proof of that, you could find yourself on the wrong end of a defamation law suite.


----------



## PoorBasterd

Hackenstein said:


> I've seen a drop but I'm still making money.
> 
> The bigger picture is the uncertainty has prevented the City from being able to sell Medallions which is costing the city tens of Millions of dollars.
> 
> Medallion transfers, stamp tax also contribute to the city budget. That's what this is really about, vulture capitalists sucking the value out and destroying everything in their path.


New York City hasn't issued new medallions in over 50 years.


----------



## PoorBasterd

Actionjax said:


> Its funny how most of you feel that what's being said is anything new. I have said it before and in will say it again, You are expendable to Uber. You are product to be bought at the lowest possible price, and if the could buy overseas and ship drivers here they would. (Why do you think most taxi drivers are new emigrants)
> 
> Customers are key to Uber success. And the numbers of customers they attract is the secret sauce.
> 
> We all know it and we all hate it but it wont change without something drastic happening.


Amen brother, Amen.


----------



## Degaul68

Man, I love John's matter-of-fact replies!! Folks he's saying it just like it is...corporate America!


----------



## PoorBasterd

UberHammer said:


> Given the workforce Uber is using exists outside of decades of well established labor laws in the US, the price will naturally fall well below what society in the US (the people, represented by government) has established as fair. This is because poor, desperate and out of work people will drive for Uber for as little as $1 an hour (even less, but let's not drag this down into a debate of pennies) because anything more than $0 is better for them. If all the employment laws in this country were voided, many companies would do the same as Uber with their employees. This is because exploitation of the poor is the natural result of unregulated capitalism. The regulation exists to limit employer exploitation. Uber saying it's not an employer is the same BS it's spewing that it's not a transportation company. It does this BS to avoid the regulations.


I don't know if you're aware of this, but slavery was abolished in Canada and the U.S. in 1833 and 1865 respectively. Travis Kalanick is a ******bag. Yeah, we get it. But he's not holding a gun to your head to work for him. You are more than free to park your car and find a more prosperous form of work. You live in a *free market economy. *You're wages are based on supply and demand. more lemmings lining up to drive for Uber means lower fairs being charged. It's reality, son. I'm not saying I like it anymore than you do, but unfortunately, that's what we have to work with.


----------



## Hackenstein

PoorBasterd said:


> New York City hasn't issued new medallions in over 50 years.


Bloomberg issued 2000 new Medallions a few years ago. They didn't all go through, I believe more than half were sold.

NYC's population hasn't really changed since the 50's btw, if you're trying to make the argument that there aren't enough cabs.


----------



## Hackenstein

PoorBasterd said:


> And do you have solid proof of that, that could stand on its own in a court of law? I'm not saying you're not correct, but unless you have proof of that, you could find yourself on the wrong end of a defamation law suite.


http://nypost.com/2014/10/15/ex-tlc-official-being-probed-by-city-after-jump-to-uber/

It's clear cut, he let Uber in by claiming an app isn't a taximeter because it uses GPS. Even though it functions as a taximeter.

Nothing will happen, everyone's bought including the NY AG Schneiderman who jumped in recently out of the blue when the TLC tried to regulate the way apps use bases. His right hand man is a Bloomberg guy. Bloomberg is invested in Uber. The last TLC Commissioner Yassky works for Lyft. Chhabra who let Uber in works for Uber. You do the math.


----------



## PoorBasterd

Actionjax said:


> I completely agree, if the market shifts to not meet the consumer needs the Uber $ will drop. Sales will drop, and people will migrate to other forms or complain more. It will be a market ripe for a new better service. That's the nature of things.
> 
> My own company had this happen in early 2000 when they went from #1 in the market to #2 for the fist time in 30 years. What was the reason. Customer dissatisfaction. We went on a hack and slash campaign to cut costs. Close branches, push people to all digital strategies. People hated it and the upper brass said tough. Well eyes were wide open to make changes when we posted our worst year in the market.
> 
> Sometimes a company needs to fail before a change comes in. We now spend record amounts of money on the customer experience. And guess what profits have increased.
> 
> Consumers control the fate of Uber. Drivers to a lesser extent. But I am hopeful what's happening around here is resonating with Uber as we se more surges and les drivers when they are needed most. Lets see if that translates to anything.


Amen brother, Amen!!!


----------



## PoorBasterd

Actionjax said:


> Riders are idiots who complain about surge. If they feel ripped off go wait an hour for a taxi. This is a business. Not a charity.
> 
> Call it what you will most people were happy with the surge on Halloween when they got a ride in 5 minutes and their guests at a party waited almost 2 hours for a taxi to show up.
> 
> Everyone hates to pay more. But most hate to be stranded more than that.
> 
> Don't like it take a taxi.


Supply and demand. That's what it all comes down to.


----------



## Hackenstein

PoorBasterd said:


> Supply and demand. That's what it all comes down to.


What do you figure the supply of uber cars would be if 100% of them were required to carry real commercial insurance like every other for-hire livery business.


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Hackenstein said:


> What do you figure the supply of uber cars would be if 100% of them were required to carry real commercial insurance like every other for-hire livery business.


Yeah but in NYC a major market for Uber you do have to have commeracial insurance. 
I don't even know why Uber bothers with these ridiculous small hick towns that they have.


----------



## Hackenstein

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> Yeah but in NYC a major market for Uber you do have to have commeracial insurance.
> I don't even know why Uber bothers with these ridiculous small hick towns that they have.


Because they can't cram enough cars into NYC I guess


----------



## Long time Nyc cab driver

Hackenstein said:


> Because they can't cram enough cars into NYC.


They can cram more in, till there's ten cars on every street, than when they have everybody in a bad situation, BOOM....
lower the rates.


----------



## troubleinrivercity

Weird how CSR's are worshipped here because they hold our Uber lives in their hands. And yet stepping outside Uber, I can't think of a worse job. 


PoorBasterd said:


> I don't know if you're aware of this, but slavery was abolished in Canada and the U.S. in 1833 and 1865 respectively. Travis Kalanick is a ******bag. Yeah, we get it. But he's not holding a gun to your head to work for him. You are more than free to park your car and find a more prosperous form of work. You live in a *free market economy. *You're wages are based on supply and demand. more lemmings lining up to drive for Uber means lower fairs being charged. It's reality, son. I'm not saying I like it anymore than you do, but unfortunately, that's what we have to work with.


I disagree with you when you say you don't like low wages. Conservatives generally love low wages. It keeps the next guy from getting out ahead of them. Of course the Harvard/Stanford set will blow them out of the water and take every dollar of equity they would have ever seen, but that's a lot easier to handle than a brown guy getting a Porsche and cutting them off on the freeway.


----------



## PoorBasterd

Hackenstein said:


> Bloomberg issued 2000 new Medallions a few years ago. They didn't all go through, I believe more than half were sold.
> 
> NYC's population hasn't really changed since the 50's btw, if you're trying to make the argument that there aren't enough cabs.


How much did they sell for?


----------



## Hackenstein

PoorBasterd said:


> How much did they sell for?


Why is that relevant


----------



## Yarrick

No doubt, and I feel for them, but it is the only time worth driving as a driver. A few weeks ago in the snow I had a $371.00 fare to the airport...what do you tell the passenger? There goes your rating too... Everyone would like more steady rates, the drivers and the customers, however UBER is a company that with the rush of their initial success they feel they can do no wrong and that they know what is best no matter what their employees (drivers) or customers think.. That is not going to be a company that is around long with that level of arrogance.


----------



## Super G

Long time Nyc cab driver said:


> Yeah but in NYC a major market for Uber you do have to have commeracial insurance.
> I don't even know why Uber bothers with these ridiculous small hick towns that they have.


Are you saying that Uber X, and Uber XL has to have commercial insurance in NY?


----------



## cybertec69

Super G said:


> Are you saying that Uber X, and Uber XL has to have commercial insurance in NY?


All Uber cars have to have commercial insurance and TLC license plates on their cars, from uberx to Uber black to Uber SUV, in NYC all dispatch vehicles fall under the FHV territory which means black car dispatch "the TLC does not care about ubers different tiers, to the TLC when you use a dispatch service to pick up passengers (clients) you are considering a black car FHV dispatch service" , which means you need to be legit, commercial insurance, yearly commercial registration costs, 3 car inspections a year, and base registration fee every two years, those 3 lovely blue round stickers plastered on the car Windows with the base name and number on them.
I suggest you do some research on this forum, since I have posted this same information to nauseum.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

You could have just replied "yes".


----------



## chitownXdriver

Who are the people that work in the local offices? Employees, csr 's, or management? Can an Uber driver be deactivated for giving lyft promo cards to passengers?


----------



## Sydney Uber

ubervictim said:


> Why is anybody still arguing with Actionjax? I have read probably 30 or 40 of his posts and replies and it's certainly safe to say he does not have the same opinion of most of the people on this board. He takes issue with facts and logic and the real concerns voiced on this forum. I don't know why he doesn't understand what's going on but it's like arguing with a wall. Just stop lol. Maybe it's his Canadian pacifism. Or maybe it's because Canada isn't nearly as screwed up and run into the ground by corporations as the US. But down here we are getting quite sick of it.


His headgear helps him cope with the flak


----------



## Super G

cybertec69 said:


> All Uber cars have to have commercial insurance and TLC license plates on their cars, from uberx to Uber black to Uber SUV, in NYC all dispatch vehicles fall under the FHV territory which means black car dispatch "the TLC does not care about ubers different tiers, to the TLC when you use a dispatch service to pick up passengers (clients) you are considering a black car FHV dispatch service" , which means you need to be legit, commercial insurance, yearly commercial registration costs, 3 car inspections a year, and base registration fee every two years, those 3 lovely blue round stickers plastered on the car Windows with the base name and number on them.
> I suggest you do some research on this forum, since I have posted this same information to nauseum.





cybertec69 said:


> All Uber cars have to have commercial insurance and TLC license plates on their cars, from uberx to Uber black to Uber SUV, in NYC all dispatch vehicles fall under the FHV territory which means black car dispatch "the TLC does not care about ubers different tiers, to the TLC when you use a dispatch service to pick up passengers (clients) you are considering a black car FHV dispatch service" , which means you need to be legit, commercial insurance, yearly commercial registration costs, 3 car inspections a year, and base registration fee every two years, those 3 lovely blue round stickers plastered on the car Windows with the base name and number on them.
> I suggest you do some research on this forum, since I have posted this same information to nauseum.


I simply asked for clarity of a statement. I would suggest you use common sense. Why would anyone get commercial insurance to make half the money?


----------



## UberHammer

PoorBasterd said:


> I don't know if you're aware of this, but slavery was abolished in Canada and the U.S. in 1833 and 1865 respectively. Travis Kalanick is a ******bag. Yeah, we get it. But he's not holding a gun to your head to work for him. You are more than free to park your car and find a more prosperous form of work. You live in a *free market economy. *You're wages are based on supply and demand. more lemmings lining up to drive for Uber means lower fairs being charged. It's reality, son. I'm not saying I like it anymore than you do, but unfortunately, that's what we have to work with.


I completely understand your point of view. Government on the hand only allows what you describe to be taken to a minimum level, as below such amount is deemed exploitation. All Uber has done is found away around the government minimum.


----------



## dandy driver

UberXinSoFlo said:


> I reported a serious issue to uber about a pax and they wouldn't tell me if they banned him, just referenced a "zero tolerance policy".
> 
> Do pax ever actually get banned, how many complaints does it generally take, is just the driver's word enough or does there have to be a police report or something?


after being a delivery driver for over 20 plus years I have discovered the best way to get a passenger like that banNed is to have him sent back to prison after he bites you chokes you attacks you tries to stab you rob you or carjack you


----------



## dandy driver

UberHammer said:


> Did you ever have to send a canned response that personally you really disagreed with? If yes, how often?


best way to deal with that type of person is to pull over on the side of the road and tell them to get out


john djjjoe said:


> A friend who works on social media coverage.
> Not officially.


this site was set up by Unrr to get rid of drivers who complain notice 32000 complaints and over 60,000 X drivers


----------



## cybertec69

Super G said:


> I simply asked for clarity of a statement. I would suggest you use common sense. Why would anyone get commercial insurance to make half the money?


What


----------



## Super G

cybertec69 said:


> What


If Uber X partners had to have commercial insurance - I doubt there would be any. They would drive a Black Car where they would be compensated to offset all of the added expenses.


----------



## thehappytypist

chitownXdriver said:


> Who are the people that work in the local offices? Employees, csr 's, or management? Can an Uber driver be deactivated for giving lyft promo cards to passengers?


Anyone who works in the office are official Uber employees. Seems to be a mix of Management and other...people, I don't even know.

Giving Lyft promo cards to your passengers is one of the fastest ways to get kicked off permanently.


----------



## Super G

Does Uber pay the driver for tolls? What do you do if they didn't pay for tolls?


----------



## thehappytypist

Super G said:


> Does Uber pay the driver for tolls? What do you do if they didn't pay for tolls?


Drivers do get reimbursed, the toll is added to the fare and the passenger pays. If you aren't reimbursed for a toll, write in with the trip ID and the toll that's missing. You'll get the money.


----------



## cybertec69

Super G said:


> If Uber X partners had to have commercial insurance - I doubt there would be any. They would drive a Black Car where they would be compensated to offset all of the added expenses.


News flash, all uber tiers in nyc require commercial insurance, without it you get no TLC plates, which means you can not operate.


----------



## Ziggy

chitownXdriver said:


> Can an Uber driver be deactivated for giving lyft promo cards to passengers?


I had a friend who used to be a Coke delivery truck driver ... he got a "stern" talking to by his boss after someone snapped a photo of him drinking a Pepsi and posting it on Facebook. He didn't lose his job ... but it's all about perception. And in the case of Lyft or Uber promo cards ... if the pax in your car is from Uber you shouldn't give them a Lyft promo or vice versa ... since essentially, you're stealing customers for another service.


----------



## UberRidiculous

Ziggy said:


> I had a friend who used to be a Coke delivery truck driver ... he got a "stern" talking to by his boss after someone snapped a photo of him drinking a Pepsi and posting it on Facebook. He didn't lose his job ... but it's all about perception. And in the case of Lyft or Uber promo cards ... if the pax in your car is from Uber you shouldn't give them a Lyft promo or vice versa ... since essentially, you're stealing customers for another service.


Whose customers? I thought drivers were ICs?


----------



## Ziggy

UberRidiculous said:


> Whose customers? I thought drivers were ICs?


RFLOL ... Drivers are IC's ... but the customers belong to the "Technology Company" ... since the pax contracted with the "Technology Company" for the ride and they are paying the "Technology Company". Drivers are merely the IC subcontracted by the "Technology Company" to drive their customer


----------



## UberRidiculous

Ziggy said:


> RFLOL ... Drivers are IC's ... but the customers belong to the "Technology Company" ... since the pax contracted with the "Technology Company" for the ride and they are paying the "Technology Company". Drivers are merely the IC subcontracted by the "Technology Company" to drive their customer


Wow! So when there's not an Uber Loophole, Uber makes their own Loophole. I imagine that will go just about as far as their arbitration language that the judge also just disqualified.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

Ziggy said:


> RFLOL ... Drivers are IC's ... but the customers belong to the "Technology Company" ... since the pax contracted with the "Technology Company" for the ride and they are paying the "Technology Company". Drivers are merely the IC subcontracted by the "Technology Company" to drive their customer


Except not according to the way they sent thee 1099s this year for 2014 taxes.


----------



## naplestom75

Do you know anybody in finance or accounting? If so, could you ask them to do what you are doing?


----------



## Sly

Ziggy said:


> I had a friend who used to be a Coke delivery truck driver ... he got a "stern" talking to by his boss after someone snapped a photo of him drinking a Pepsi and posting it on Facebook. He didn't lose his job ... but it's all about perception. And in the case of Lyft or Uber promo cards ... if the pax in your car is from Uber you shouldn't give them a Lyft promo or vice versa ... since essentially, you're stealing customers for another service.


I worked for Security for a Coke plant and yes they will fire you for drinking a pepsi. I was working for Pepsi at the same time and had a hat in the car, had to keep it hidden.


----------



## Cooluberdriver

cybertec69 said:


> You must be new with uber or pretty much any huge Corp nowadays, it's all about the bottom line, get used to business in the 21st century.


It's always been about the bottom line


----------



## Cooluberdriver

Jav said:


> How important is the Uber brand to Uber? I have never seen a company turn a brand that stood for quality service, savvy, revolutionary, at an affordable price t0 then, in what seems overnight, turn to deceptive, shady, lawless, low budget and poor service in a matter of months...are they even aware of the damage a brand can take financially from being devalued? Are their investors aware that the brand they so heavily invested in is being run into the ground at record pace levels?


What are you talking about? There valuation is soaring.


----------



## Cooluberdriver

Roogy said:


> Question to John Djjjoe:
> I was deactivated for having a "2 week rolling rating below 4.4" although my overall was 4.70 (down from 4.85 two weeks prior). Is that normal? No one here seems to have ever heard of a being evaluated based on a 2 week sample size of a dozen or so rated rides.


I told you already, you didn't drive enough so you were not profitable for uber.


----------



## Cooluberdriver

thehappytypist said:


> I didn't want to barge in but the thread has been abandoned by the other CSR, so now it belongs to me.


Are they phasing out black car in Atlanta?


----------



## Cooluberdriver

Hackenstein said:


> Really, what the **** is 'ride sharing.' A lovely meaningless term. It's people 'sharing' an illegal service via a phone app. With the added charm of 'legal' price gouging to allow illegal improperly insured cars undercut legitimate taxis when they're not gouging. Is Uber still making the Australian authorities chase them around? What a disgusting company, ignore all the laws, bribe their way into markets, and paint themselves as the underdog. I drive a cab in NYC, I'm certainly not in any sort of 'cartel.' I do work hard though and make an honest living. Uber is intent on destroying that, the CEO literally said so. Personally, I'd say it's blatantly obvious that he is the asshole, not 'taxi.'


But he's ingenious and a billionaire because of it. I marvel at how he did it. Cold I know, but this world isn't about rainbows and bunnys now is it..


----------



## Cooluberdriver

Hackenstein said:


> Right, it's a taximeter. Which uses GPS to calculate the fare. This is what Chhabra got his bribe for, to mess with the rules and somehow claim it's not a taximeter.
> 
> As of today, NYC has a massive hole in the budget which was supposed to be filled by the sale of Medallions.
> 
> That's not going to happen, because this criminal bullshit has hurt the industry and created too much uncertainty. The major buyers backed out, no one is buying or selling, loans can't be made.
> 
> It's resulting in the proposal to add tolls to the East River bridges, and to institute 'congestion pricing' in midtown.
> 
> In other words, this is, in a real sense, on the verge of seriously harming NYC itself, and forcing everyone, not just cabs, to pay for Uber's bloodthirsty quest for money.


Guess maybe you will decide to go back to school and get an education, so you can do something else?


----------



## Hackenstein

Cooluberdriver said:


> Guess maybe you will decide to go back to school and get an education, so you can do something else?


Yes, shift the blame onto legit cab drivers who play by the rules. Genius.


----------



## Cooluberdriver

Hackenstein said:


> Yes, shift the blame onto legit cab drivers who play by the rules. Genius.


I'm not shifting anything, you chose to drive a cab, you have options in life.


----------



## thehappytypist

Cooluberdriver said:


> Are they phasing out black car in Atlanta?


Not that I know of.


----------



## Cooluberdriver

thehappytypist said:


> Not that I know of.


Hi, if they aren't phasing out black then why does Uber not allow anymore black car drivers? My employees can't make accounts now.


----------



## elelegido

Yarrick said:


> A few weeks ago in the snow I had a $371.00 fare to the airport...what do you tell the passenger?


Thank you very much.


----------



## thehappytypist

Cooluberdriver said:


> Hi, if they aren't phasing out black then why does Uber not allow anymore black car drivers? My employees can't make accounts now.


I haven't the slightest clue. I'm most familiar with NYC and they just keep taking on drivers, no idea why.


----------



## Cooluberdriver

thehappytypist said:


> I haven't the slightest clue. I'm most familiar with NYC and they just keep taking on drivers, no idea why.


It's ok, I thank you. You are a kind woman to do this, I really hope your situation improves for you and your family. God bless you.


----------



## thehappytypist

Cooluberdriver said:


> It's ok, I thank you. You are a kind woman to do this, I really hope your situation improves for you and your family. God bless you.


Thank you  I really appreciate your kind words.


----------



## RockinEZ

Lidman said:


> One of the most honest statements anyone associated (present/former) with UBER has made. Maybe they'll learn some humility if LYFT gains some ground on them. I'm not saying that LYft is the end-all b-all, but definitely an improvement over uber. Like EBay finally did, get some voice CSR, and I don't mean from a call center in India, or any other foreign country that has no minimum wage.


Check Lyft's insurance deductible. $2500 vs. Uber's $1000. We get screwed either way, but Lyft is using us just as Uber is, but they may be more expensive to us in the long run.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

Cooluberdriver said:


> It's ok, I thank you. You are a kind woman to do this, I really hope your situation improves for you and your family. God bless you.


What did I miss? What's going on, thehappytypist ?


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

PoorBasterd said:


> You live in a *free market economy.*


No, actually. We do not have a free market economy! We have a mixed market economy. If this was a free market, uberx wouldn't be in legal limbo (or illegal). The fact that you have to have a medallion from the government, the fact that our government provides subsidies, the fact that our government interferes with certain sectors of the economy means it is not a free market. Bailouts, the federal reserve, fiscal and monetary policy...

Our wages are not based solely on supply and demand, there's also a state-mandated minimum wage because we do not have a free market.


----------



## UberHammer

Unregulated and unlegislated free markets naturally lead to exploitation. Ignoring laws and regulation are why Uber is able to exploit drivers with ridiculously low base rates and exploit riders with ridiculously high surges. Only the most desperate of drivers drive for $0.75/mile, and only the most desperate riders ride at 8x surge. Uber should rename the company to "Desperation Transportation" because desperation is the basis of its rates. Which again, unregulated and unlegislated free market naturally leads to exploiting the desperate.


----------



## vandammzz

Why won't Uber honor the Bonus payouts they promise? Seems that the referrals are never linked to my account even though each person signed up through the email I sent. Also it seems that they have been "re-routed" saying I/they went through another link at a later date, which is not true.


----------



## cybertec69

vandammzz said:


> Why won't Uber honor the Bonus payouts they promise? Seems that the referrals are never linked to my account even though each person signed up through the email I sent. Also it seems that they have been "re-routed" saying I/they went through another link at a later date, which is not true.


So you facilitated you demise "added more competition for yourself and your business for a short term gain", Uber has been doing a great job taking advantage of the clueless.


----------



## vandammzz

Not neccesarily Cybertec69. I drive for the extra money only when I have the availability. I referred my Daughter as she is currently between jobs and looking for a new job. This is a way for her to make money in the meantime. No competition as we would not always be driving at the same time. Why not get a referral bonus out of it! I just want Uber to be honest and honor its promises.


----------



## thehappytypist

JaxBeachDriver said:


> What did I miss? What's going on, thehappytypist ?


I believe they're referring to the outsourcing situation.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

thehappytypist said:


> I believe they're referring to the outsourcing situation.


Oh, ok. Well we appreciate you! I know I do, anyway. Hope they keep you around.

I have a question, and I'm not sure if you or anyone else can answer it... Every week, drivers have outstanding fares (fares greater than $100) that go unpaid until the following week. why is that? It doesn't make sense, because even if the pax doesn't pay up, uber is still responsible for paying that money to the driver. Some drivers think that uber holds these fares and invests them for the week, drawing in interest or dividends, but I'm not sure that would be legal (like uber gives a ****) or even possible on such a grand scale. Am I naive? What are your thoughts?


----------



## thehappytypist

JaxBeachDriver said:


> Oh, ok. Well we appreciate you! I know I do, anyway. Hope they keep you around.
> 
> I have a question, and I'm not sure if you or anyone else can answer it... Every week, drivers have outstanding fares (fares greater than $100) that go unpaid until the following week. why is that? It doesn't make sense, because even if the pax doesn't pay up, uber is still responsible for paying that money to the driver. Some drivers think that uber holds these fares and invests them for the week, drawing in interest or dividends, but I'm not sure that would be legal (like uber gives a ****) or even possible on such a grand scale. Am I naive? What are your thoughts?


Nah, you're not naive. Each area has a threshold and if a fare hits that, it will be held until it's reviewed and manually approved. Even if it's a fraudulent trip, you'll still get paid, they just want to make sure it wasn't a really badly mistimed trip or a GPS error. Stuff like that.


----------



## I works for no man

Uber SUCKS for drivers! said:


> Most of us are at $.75/mile, which means $.60 after uber cut, which means $.30 if only half ur miles are paid (typical). So you actually LOSE $.27/mile (using IRS $.57). You LOSE a little on each trip, but can try to make it up on volume! The question is does Uber actually realize that they are just prostituting their drivers, and they are losing $? Are they just knowing that there are a million more unemployed desperate dummies in line that cant do math, and need to literally "eat their car"?


The sad part is you just described me to perfectly, college educated, unable to find a full time job for the last six years, allowing uber to butt rape me and my car. Paying the bills until it dies and I can no longer afford the payment. lift is just as bad or worse, at least uber is not claiming to be some kind of mother Theresa like lift.


----------



## I works for no man

LEAFdriver said:


> John Doe.....Why are Chicagoland drivers not allowed to see their PAX's rating.....but everyone else can?


I used an android phone for a little while and I could see the ratings. I picked up a lady in highland park, she asked me her rating and when I told her 4.7 she could not stop talking about it all the way to Chicago. I have heard the city of Chicago agreement is why they do not show ratings but pax can ask for it from uber.


----------



## I works for no man

Actionjax said:


> When evaluating both companies you have a 65 Billion dollar company vs a 270 Billion dollar company. So ya I would say WalMart isn't worried about retention in its strategy. As far as Costco being successful that will depend on where the customers go. Employee wages don't factor in to consumer purchasing. Price value does. Rarely do you ever see a boycott of a store when you see where goods come from and the horrid conditions they live in to make them. People still want their $4 tshirt from Old Navy.
> 
> Companies care when bottom line is effected. Employee care is only a strategy for. better profits.


I consider myself a free market guy, but I renewed my Costco membership knowing it was $15 cheaper because they pay their employees better.


----------



## I works for no man

Sly said:


> The only reason Uber has a chance is because the monopolistic taxi cab companies are refusing to change their stripes. If they stopped charging drivers so much for cab rental, stopped requiring 12 hour rentals. Allowed the drivers to work only when they want to, during busy hours, and lowered their rates then Uber would go broke trying to keep up.


There are plenty of Women in Chicago who will not Uber because of that dude that was wrongfully accused of rape. The cabs could kill uber in Chicago just like blockbuster had a chance to kill Netflix until it was too late.


----------



## Tim In Cleveland

Say you pick up four pax and tax them to the designated address. Two ask if they continue on to another address. You say "Sure, as long as the account holder agrees". The account holder doesn't agree. Then you say "You can just request a car and it should come to me". They don't have an account, don't want to make one and offer cash. Is the driver doing anything wrong in accepting in Uber's eyes? It's not in a major city so there would be no local regulations.


----------



## Huberis

Tim In Cleveland said:


> Say you pick up four pax and tax them to the designated address. Two ask if they continue on to another address. You say "Sure, as long as the account holder agrees". The account holder doesn't agree. Then you say "You can just request a car and it should come to me". They don't have an account, don't want to make one and offer cash. Is the driver doing anything wrong in accepting in Uber's eyes? It's not in a major city so there would be no local regulations.


Uber would have no clue since they don't have an account. You would obviously need to secure payment in cash or not get paid. If an accident happened, that is where you would truly be putting yourself at risk. I would guess that judgement is up to you. What kind of risk are you willing to accept and how accurate are you at assessing the risk? What does Uber care in that situation? They can't prove it. Your municipality would be the one looking to fine/punish you for doing that.


----------



## thehappytypist

Tim In Cleveland said:


> Say you pick up four pax and tax them to the designated address. Two ask if they continue on to another address. You say "Sure, as long as the account holder agrees". The account holder doesn't agree. Then you say "You can just request a car and it should come to me". They don't have an account, don't want to make one and offer cash. Is the driver doing anything wrong in accepting in Uber's eyes? It's not in a major city so there would be no local regulations.


Street hails (taking rides not requested through the app) are considered fairly serious and there's no distinction from city to city, it's bad no matter what. If they complain and they're able to identify you, you will probably get deactivated. Since this occurred at the end of a friend's ride, all they'd have to do is provide a mobile number or email address for the friend's account as well as the date/time and we'll find you. This is all given that we receive a complaint.

Tl;dr - It's risky and I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## Tim In Cleveland

thehappytypist said:


> Street hails (taking rides not requested through the app) are considered fairly serious and there's no distinction from city to city, it's bad no matter what. If they complain and they're able to identify you, you will probably get deactivated. Since this occurred at the end of a friend's ride, all they'd have to do is provide a mobile number or email address for the friend's account as well as the date/time and we'll find you. This is all given that we receive a complaint.
> 
> Tl;dr - It's risky and I wouldn't recommend it.


Thanks, but it gets tough to get drunks out of your car when they refuse to let you help them make an account.


----------



## Sly

Tim In Cleveland said:


> Thanks, but it gets tough to get drunks out of your car when they refuse to let you help them make an account.


And after all that trouble they'll still give you a 1-star for being an asshole even if you did your best to work with them.


----------



## LEAFdriver

Sly said:


> And after all that trouble they'll still give you a 1-star for being an ******* even if you did your best to work with them.


Unfortunately this is a very sad truth.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

thehappytypist said:


> Street hails (taking rides not requested through the app) are considered fairly serious and there's no distinction from city to city, it's bad no matter what. If they complain and they're able to identify you, you will probably get deactivated.
> 
> Tl;dr - It's risky and I wouldn't recommend it.


One of the things that I like about Uber Taxi: I get the best of all possible worlds. I can take Uber's customers, my own company's customers _and_ street hails.

I do not know about anywhere else, but here, the Police and Hack Inspectors will watch out for UberX-es' and Uber Blacks' accepting street hails. They _will_ do a stop and pop on you. So, to add injury to insult, you get your car impounded, you pay all this money and go through all this hassle to get it back, you sign back on to the UberX or Uber Black application only to find that you have been de-activated for accepting a street hail.

As a general rule, the City Councilwoman here in charge of Transportation has told the Taxicab Commission not to bother Uber. She has, however, told the Taxicab Commission that it can bother Uber drivers who accept street hails. The exception to this, is , of course, Uber Taxis, who can accept street hails.

I do wish that Uber would implement a Pay-With-Uber option for its users who hail a taxi and manage to get an Uber Taxi. Hail-O does this in Europe and Asia. This way, the Uber user does not need to wait for the credit card terminal in the cab to process and clear. The meters here print these receipts that everyone hates because they are small, which makes them easy to lose, and often they are hard to read. Uber e-Mails the receipt, which makes it _so_ much easier. Many of my passengers have said that when the receipt comes by e-Mail, they simply forward it to the appropriate Department at their employer. I have had several users who hailed me do this because they wanted to be on the Eastern Shuttle that had left an hour previously or wanted an e-Mail receipt. It is a bit dicey, as, you would think that since your passenger is sitting no more than five feet from you, the application would send the request to you. It does not always happen that way, though (and people wonder why I am always stating that Uber's GPS is somewhat less than one-hundred per-cent). Sometimes you must try two or three times, but at least Uber does not penalise if you cancel within five minutes. Chicago users seem to do this frequently, as most of the requests for pay-with-Uber on my street hails have been from Chicago users. All of them have told me that they do this in Chicago all the time.

I did suggest this to the then local Operations Manager. He thought that it was a good idea. He did not come out and say it, but he seemed to suggest that he was meeting resistance from someone higher-up. I have suggested this to other local Uber office people, as well. Everyone has thought that it was a good idea. Uber's greatest selling point always has been convenience. This would add another level of convenience. In fact, I have my long time credit card provider on a search for a terminal that accepts not only credit cards, but also Applepay, Google Wallet and Pay up,Pal. If Uber implements a Pay With Uber option, I can offer my customers all sorts of ways to pay, including cash (if they _must_).


----------



## john djjjoe

Another Uber Driver said:


> One of the things that I like about Uber Taxi: I get the best of all possible worlds. I can take Uber's customers, my own company's customers _and_ street hails.
> 
> I do not know about anywhere else, but here, the Police and Hack Inspectors will watch out for UberX-es' and Uber Blacks' accepting street hails. They _will_ do a stop and pop on you. So, to add injury to insult, you get your car impounded, you pay all this money and go through all this hassle to get it back, you sign back on to the UberX or Uber Black application only to find that you have been de-activated for accepting a street hail.
> 
> As a general rule, the City Councilwoman here in charge of Transportation has told the Taxicab Commission not to bother Uber. She has, however, told the Taxicab Commission that it can bother Uber drivers who accept street hails. The exception to this, is , of course, Uber Taxis, who can accept street hails.
> 
> I do wish that Uber would implement a Pay-With-Uber option for its users who hail a taxi and manage to get an Uber Taxi. Hail-O does this in Europe and Asia. This way, the Uber user does not need to wait for the credit card terminal in the cab to process and clear. The meters here print these receipts that everyone hates because they are small, which makes them easy to lose, and often they are hard to read. Uber e-Mails the receipt, which makes it _so_ much easier. Many of my passengers have said that when the receipt comes by e-Mail, they simply forward it to the appropriate Department at their employer. I have had several users who hailed me do this because they wanted to be on the Eastern Shuttle that had left an hour previously or wanted an e-Mail receipt. It is a bit dicey, as, you would think that since your passenger is sitting no more than five feet from you, the application would send the request to you. It does not always happen that way, though (and people wonder why I am always stating that Uber's GPS is somewhat less than one-hundred per-cent). Sometimes you must try two or three times, but at least Uber does not penalise if you cancel within five minutes. Chicago users seem to do this frequently, as most of the requests for pay-with-Uber on my street hails have been from Chicago users. All of them have told me that they do this in Chicago all the time.
> 
> I did suggest this to the then local Operations Manager. He thought that it was a good idea. He did not come out and say it, but he seemed to suggest that he was meeting resistance from someone higher-up. I have suggested this to other local Uber office people, as well. Everyone has thought that it was a good idea. Uber's greatest selling point always has been convenience. This would add another level of convenience. In fact, I have my long time credit card provider on a search for a terminal that accepts not only credit cards, but also Applepay, Google Wallet and Pay up,Pal. If Uber implements a Pay With Uber option, I can offer my customers all sorts of ways to pay, including cash (if they _must_).


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

POST # 757/john djjjoe : W..T..F..!


----------



## OrlUberOffDriver

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 757/john djjjoe : W..T..F..!


214 times.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

OrlUberOffDriver said:


> 214 times.


POST # 759/OrlUberOffDriver: Dear
Sweet Baby Jesus,
this "Felch Pharaoh" doesn't hit 250!


----------



## OrlUberOffDriver

_*Amen!!*



Casuale Haberdasher said:



POST # 759/OrlUberOffDriver: Dear
Sweet Baby Jesus,
this "Felch Pharaoh" doesn't hit 250!

Click to expand...

_​


----------



## jreyn60

Last week, I opted in and completed five guarantee incentives here in Houston. I met every one of the requirements, but my payment statement came back saying I didn't meet the correct number of hours, which is false. I went to the Houston office and they said all I could do was write an email to local support. I explained everything and proved it with screen grabs from my dashboard and payment statements, but got an email back saying that I didn't make the correct number of trips, which is also FALSE.

I've now emailed "partners at Uber" with the most detailed email imaginable, proving that I met the requirements and I haven't heard back yet (24 hours). My payment has been deposited without the guarantees, which means I'm short $170. One month ago, I was shorted $120 because they said I never opted in, which is also FALSE.

What recourse do I have here? Is there a corporate office I can contact or someone higher up the chain I can plead my case to? Please help.

THANK YOU.


----------



## thehappytypist

jreyn60 said:


> Last week, I opted in and completed five guarantee incentives here in Houston. I met every one of the requirements, but my payment statement came back saying I didn't meet the correct number of hours, which is false. I went to the Houston office and they said all I could do was write an email to local support. I explained everything and proved it with screen grabs from my dashboard and payment statements, but got an email back saying that I didn't make the correct number of trips, which is also FALSE.
> 
> I've now emailed "partners at Uber" with the most detailed email imaginable, proving that I met the requirements and I haven't heard back yet (24 hours). My payment has been deposited without the guarantees, which means I'm short $170. One month ago, I was shorted $120 because they said I never opted in, which is also FALSE.
> 
> What recourse do I have here? Is there a corporate office I can contact or someone higher up the chain I can plead my case to? Please help.
> 
> THANK YOU.


That's really strange that they told you to email when you stopped at the office. Usually, going to the office is as up the chain as it gets. I'm rather baffled. Push to get your case escalated, agents on higher tiers have access to more information.


----------



## jreyn60

thehappytypist said:


> That's really strange that they told you to email when you stopped at the office. Usually, going to the office is as up the chain as it gets. I'm rather baffled. Push to get your case escalated, agents on higher tiers have access to more information.


Thanks. How exactly does one push to get their case escalated? Who are these higher agents and where can I find them?


----------



## thehappytypist

jreyn60 said:


> Thanks. How exactly does one push to get their case escalated? Who are these higher agents and where can I find them?


You have to annoy the CSR you're working with enough that they escalate.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

jreyn60 said:


> Last week, I opted in and completed five guarantee incentives here in Houston. I met every one of the requirements, but my payment statement came back saying I didn't meet the correct number of hours, which is false. I went to the Houston office and they said all I could do was write an email to local support. I explained everything and proved it with screen grabs from my dashboard and payment statements, but got an email back saying that I didn't make the correct number of trips, which is also FALSE.
> 
> I've now emailed "partners at Uber" with the most detailed email imaginable, proving that I met the requirements and I haven't heard back yet (24 hours). My payment has been deposited without the guarantees, which means I'm short $170. One month ago, I was shorted $120 because they said I never opted in, which is also FALSE.
> 
> What recourse do I have here? Is there a corporate office I can contact or someone higher up the chain I can plead my case to? Please help.
> 
> THANK YOU.


FYI I always screen shot after I opt in. That way you have "proof" of that.

I have not been to the office in Houston but once for my trade dress and have dealt with the CSRs on the phone many times.

Sometimes I have simply asked for escalation and kept asking. You will know when you get that because the email looks like an actual person wrote it and they will tell you it has been turned over to them. Just keep emailing and be polite but persistent.


----------



## Uber Kraus

djjjoe

I have a couple questions..

1) Is djjjoe more like "DJ J Joe" and do you do weddings?

2) I have read through this entire thread and _appreciate_ your honest/blunt answers. What I'd like to know is this. Given that you were on such a high level in the organization and you had been around since early why are you unafraid of burning a bridge with Uber by answering these questions? Do you not care? Do Uber execs not care?


----------



## Micmac

john djjjoe said:


> Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


What S up Doe Joe ? Does uber favor certain drivers on pings ?and if they do how?


----------



## MsKia

Why are you willing to answer our questions? I'm just curious. It's all very interesting.


----------



## MsKia

brianwithers said:


> I am a new driver in PA, we are required by PA law to inform our personal insurance carriers, that we are driving for Uber. Uber will not answer me as to the legalities of this and will I be dropped by my insurance?


Auto insurance or health insurance?


----------



## MsKia

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I have to say, I'm only on page 3, and already a few of your comments do come across as rude, arrogant and inconsiderate -- the exact "brand" of Uber responses we've all come to expect. Whether you quit or not, you're still Ubering on.


Ummm really!? As if most drivers aren't just posting annoying, self-aggrandizing, know-it-all posts. Give the dude a break.


----------



## MsKia

JaxBeachDriver said:


> I no longer drive for uber. Still, it doesnt make it right. I don't think many filthy rich people are driving uberx. With uber, you work one day and make a certain amount, you wake up the next day and everything has changed. People were expecting to make a certain amount of money, planning on it accordingly, and they received no reasonable notice of the changes. It's just not right. Basic human decency dictates that you give people notice, time to make other arrangements. It's not right, no matter how you spin it. It's predatory.


Why do people who no longer drive for Uber still haunt these boards? Bored much!? I'm sure once I'm gone I won't have any interest in any of this. I will be living my life!


----------



## MsKia

UberHammer said:


> The human element is a thing of the past ONLY if people stop doing the human thing of rejecting Uber for being inhuman. Uber cannot succeed being inhuman unless society becomes inhuman too.
> 
> The biggest mistake Uber is making with its contempt relationship with its drivers is failing to see the link that many Uber customers have personal relationships with drivers. I hear all the time that "my so and so drives for Uber too". Uber's shit treatment of drivers will harm its relationship with its customers. It's just a matter of time.


And how many of us STARTED as Uber Passengers but now solely use LYFT when we need a ride in order to support the less unethical of the two companies.


----------



## MsKia

Sacto Burbs said:


> Lyft does that with Lyftline. At the end of your shift you get to be the first passenger in a Lyftline home, but you often don't get a passenger.


I've never gotten a passenger when I set my destination on LYFT. A much better idea would be to either a. Be able to see where the passengers are going or b. Set a radius that you are willing to work in. In Los Angeles, the latter would be a. Amazing idea.


----------



## MsKia

thehappytypist said:


> Oh, I'm here. I visit daily, I just don't say much.


And we see why, lol...


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

MsKia said:


> Why do people who no longer drive for Uber still haunt these boards? Bored much!? I'm sure once I'm gone I won't have any interest in any of this. I will be living my life!


That post was from February. I'm back. UberBlack. Thank you for your opinion and rules on life. We'll all try to live by your rules.

By the way, several active members of this board do not drive for uber.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

MsKia said:


> Ummm really!? As if most drivers aren't just posting annoying, self-aggrandizing, know-it-all posts. Give the dude a break.


That guy was/is a tool.


----------



## cybertec69

This post is as old as dirt, he is long gone. The uber CSR's are recycled just like the drivers are.


----------



## thehappytypist

MsKia said:


> And we see why, lol...


It's really easy to hit my ***** switch via message board so I keep my mouth shut until I have something to say. lol


----------



## UberRules?

john djjjoe said:


> Questions about how we treat you/adjudicate complaints between you and riders? Ask me anything!


Thanks for joining the forum. How are riders accusations about driver behavior evaluated, if at all? Are riders accusations accept as fact? Even if you personally think they may be exaggerated or even outright lies. Do you require riders to provide evidence or supporting information? Is "rider safety" the real concern or is it the possibility of bad publicity and just making the customer happy, so they are not a problem. Do you let riders know what action is being taken to "discipline" the driver?


----------



## Micmac

UberRules? said:


> Thanks for joining the forum. How are riders accusations about driver behavior evaluated, if at all? Are riders accusations accept as fact? Even if you personally think they may be exaggerated or even outright lies. Do you require riders to provide evidence or supporting information? Is "rider safety" the real concern or is it the possibility of bad publicity and just making the customer happy, so they are not a problem. Do you let riders know what action is being taken to "discipline" the driver?


hey Doe Joe why are ignoring my question?


----------



## jreyn60

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I have not been to the office in Houston but once for my trade dress and have dealt with the CSRs on the phone many times.


How do you get CSRs on the phone???


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

jreyn60 said:


> How do you get CSRs on the phone???


Publicly tweet @ Uber with your grievance.


----------



## Oh My

I would like to know your age, educational background and prior work history (if any). 

Hey, you said we could "ask anything". 


Please be truthful. 

Thanks.


----------



## thehappytypist

UberRules? said:


> Thanks for joining the forum. How are riders accusations about driver behavior evaluated, if at all? Are riders accusations accept as fact? Even if you personally think they may be exaggerated or even outright lies. Do you require riders to provide evidence or supporting information? Is "rider safety" the real concern or is it the possibility of bad publicity and just making the customer happy, so they are not a problem. Do you let riders know what action is being taken to "discipline" the driver?


I can answer that since it's part of my job description now. Firstly we never EVER tell a rider what actions have been taken with the driver, the most they know is that we're addressing the issue. (And sometimes we just say that to placate them and do nothing to the driver.)

If it's an accusation that's enough for a warning or deactivation, then we're going to call and/or email the driver first before we do anything. If it's a he said/she said situation, we split the difference. Rider gets what they want, driver isn't affected, and everything is documented.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

thehappytypist said:


> I can answer that since it's part of my job description now. Firstly we never EVER tell a rider what actions have been taken with the driver, the most they know is that we're addressing the issue.
> 
> If it's an accusation that's enough for a warning or deactivation, then we're going to call and/or email the driver first before we do anything. If it's a he said/she said situation, we split the difference. Rider gets what they want, driver isn't affected, and everything is documented.


What evidence do you look at? Seems like it's always he said, she said.


----------



## cybertec69

thehappytypist said:


> I can answer that since it's part of my job description now. Firstly we never EVER tell a rider what actions have been taken with the driver, the most they know is that we're addressing the issue. (And sometimes we just say that to placate them and do nothing to the driver.)
> 
> If it's an accusation that's enough for a warning or deactivation, then we're going to call and/or email the driver first before we do anything. If it's a he said/she said situation, we split the difference. Rider gets what they want, driver isn't affected, and everything is documented.


Who gives a rats ass anyways, you and uber can go jump off a cliff for all we care. Bunch of clowns who never drove a Taxi in their lives, and are clueless of what is like in the REAL WORLD, telling people what they should and should not do, just spare us , now go play with your computer.


----------



## Uber Driver 007

cybertec69 said:


> Who gives a rats ass anyways, you and uber can go jump off a cliff for all we care. Bunch of clowns who never drove a Taxi in their lives, and are clueless of what is like in the REAL WORLD, telling people what they should and should not do, just spare us , now go play with your computer.


Dude you have one of the most obnoxious and confrontational attitudes I have (ever) seen on this forum. You lash out at people who have no say in Uber's decision-making. In fact, I'm noticing that you literally 'take it out on everyone' to calm your nerves. I think Uber has you hooked by your balls and you're on the verge of a colapase or a nervous breakdown. Leave Uber (like you always advice others) before you end up more mentally sick.

Frankly speaking, your posts make you sound so angry at Uber and its customers that I don't even consider you to be fit for driving anymore. Leaving Uber and their shenanigans aside, you have people's lives at stake and who knows when you will 'take it out on a UberX customer' to get back at Uber. And yes, I'm familiar with your 'other job opportunity' and that 'this is your last month', we will see when you stop moaning 24/7.

Oh, and what exactly is your beef with thehappytypist ?


----------



## thehappytypist

JaxBeachDriver said:


> What evidence do you look at? Seems like it's always he said, she said.


95% of the time it really is he said/she said unless the driver admits to something or it's an accusation a rider can back up with pictures. "Cash" exchanges (driver accepting payment outside the Uber app) can be backed up with a receipt or a charge showing on a bank statement, if they paid the driver via Square or something similar.


----------



## thehappytypist

cybertec69 said:


> Who gives a rats ass anyways, you and uber can go jump off a cliff for all we care. Bunch of clowns who never drove a Taxi in their lives, and are clueless of what is like in the REAL WORLD, telling people what they should and should not do, just spare us , now go play with your computer.


Feel better now?


----------



## cybertec69

thehappytypist said:


> Joke's on you! I'm already playing with my computer.


There is no joke here, just goes to show what a bunch of clowns uber and it's uber drone CSR's are.


----------



## Jason2k15

thehappytypist,

cybertect69 has issues that probably the best doctor can't figure out. It is useless getting into any discussion with him about anything as he has a personal vendetta and might have also had a bad childhood.


----------



## KeJorn

John,

(1) Why do some drivers receive higher guarantees (closer to $50/hr) while others receive lower guarantees ($30/hr or less) or none at all (same city, etc)? (Granted, these have all probably dropped much lower since then... $15/hr seems to be the latest)

(2) Do drivers gets 'blackballed' in any way (internally) without deactivation?

(3) When it comes to cleaning fees, why do CSR responses seem to vary so much for the same basic scenario? Is there not a standard policy?

(4) Do the new generation of CSRs differ much from the early generation? The newer ones seem far less polite.

(5) Can CSRs or anyone in Uber management manipulate a driver's rating and have you ever witnessed it?

Ok, so we get the whole _"drivers are intentionally treated like scum"_ and _"Uber only cares about what gets back to the investors"_ , etc. No big surprise there. Have never felt the Uber love, 'cept perhaps a reach around when I received my weekly pay. It sounds like if we are to ever earn some respect (well at least their unwanted attention) all we have to do is find something that hurts their bottom line and make sure it goes public. Good to know. Clearly there is no future with Uber and we should get what we can while we can and move on to something better.

Thanks for chatting with us.


----------



## thehappytypist

KeJorn said:


> John,
> 
> (1) Why do some drivers receive higher guarantees (closer to $50/hr) while others receive lower guarantees ($30/hr or less) or none at all (same city, etc)? (Granted, these have all probably dropped much lower since then... $15/hr seems to be the latest)
> 
> (2) Do drivers gets 'blackballed' in any way (internally) without deactivation?
> 
> (3) When it comes to cleaning fees, why do CSR responses seem to vary so much for the same basic scenario? Is there not a standard policy?
> 
> (4) Do the new generation of CSRs differ much from the early generation? The newer ones seem far less polite.
> 
> (5) Can CSRs or anyone in Uber management manipulate a driver's rating and have you ever witnessed it?
> 
> Ok, so we get the whole _"drivers are intentionally treated like scum"_ and _"Uber only cares about what gets back to the investors"_ , etc. No big surprise there. Have never felt the Uber love, 'cept perhaps a reach around when I received my weekly pay. It sounds like if we are to ever earn some respect (well at least their unwanted attention) all we have to do is find something that hurts their bottom line and make sure it goes public. Good to know. Clearly there is no future with Uber and we should get what we can while we can and move on to something better.
> 
> Thanks for chatting with us.


I'll answer what I can. I don't think John is coming back.

1. Can't answer this one, that's decided by ops so maybe if he does come back he can tell you.

2. No.

3. There's a loose set of guidelines but generally it's a judgement call by the CSR. They recently started having the most advanced CSRs do cleaning fees so it should be more consistent.

4. The newest CSRs are overseas and english is definitely not their strong point. Neither is empathy.

5. CSRs are capable of changing the rating for individual trips but we're supposed to do so only when the rider asks us to.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

thehappytypist said:


> 3. There's a loose set of guidelines but generally it's a judgement call by the CSR. They recently started having the most advanced CSRs do cleaning fees so it should be more consistent.


 so the very best customer service representatives, the ones with the most experience, are rewarded by getting to look at photos of puke all day?


----------



## UberMeansSuper

Sacto Burbs said:


> so the very best customer service representatives, the ones with the most experience, are rewarded by getting to look at photos of puke all day?


I can just imagine their internal e-mail signature:

John Nelson
Customer Service Representative
Tier II Puke Specialist
Uber Technologies, Inc.
[email protected]​


----------



## thehappytypist

Sacto Burbs said:


> so the very best customer service representatives, the ones with the most experience, are rewarded by getting to look at photos of puke all day?


Yup. We're just that awesome. Tier 1 reps generally SUCKED at cleaning fees and gave them out for every single little thing. Two crumbs? $50! A few pet hairs? OMG that's horrible, here's $100!


----------



## UberHammer

I think they use a little bit more creative titles. Perhaps:

Cookie Tossing Specialist
Lost Lunch Specialist
Technicolor Yawn Speciaist


----------



## thehappytypist

UberHammer said:


> Technicolor Yawn Speciaist


That was especially true after Halloween. The glitter vom is a legend.


----------



## JaxBeachDriver

thehappytypist said:


> 95% of the time it really is he said/she said unless the driver admits to something or it's an accusation a rider can back up with pictures. "Cash" exchanges (driver accepting payment outside the Uber app) can be backed up with a receipt or a charge showing on a bank statement, if they paid the driver via Square or something similar.


But tips are acceptable, if the passenger insists. I assume this isn't the type of cash exchange you're referring to, or is it?


----------



## thehappytypist

JaxBeachDriver said:


> But tips are acceptable, if the passenger insists. I assume this isn't the type of cash exchange you're referring to, or is it?


If the rider insists and are aware it's not necessary, by Uber's standards, then yeah that's fine. Mainly we're looking for instances where a fare was paid in cash _and_ in the app.


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

thehappytypist said:


> Yup. We're just that awesome. Tier 1 reps generally SUCKED at cleaning fees and gave them out for every single little thing. Two crumbs? $50! A few pet hairs? OMG that's horrible, here's $100!


That's not sucky, that's AWESOME!


----------



## Fuzzyelvis

UberMeansSuper said:


> I can just imagine their internal e-mail signature:
> 
> John Nelson
> Customer Service Representative
> Tier II Puke Specialist
> Uber Technologies, Inc.
> [email protected]​





Sacto Burbs said:


> so the very best customer service representatives, the ones with the most experience, are rewarded by getting to look at photos of puke all day?


Not JUST puke. There's also pee, blood, more shall we say INTIMATE bodily fluids.

Sometimes they get a break with a spilled soda or food.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

WOW... that was fast... Glad to see that antagonist gone.


----------



## KeJorn

thehappytypist said:


> Yup. We're just that awesome. Tier 1 reps generally SUCKED at cleaning fees and gave them out for every single little thing. Two crumbs? $50! A few pet hairs? OMG that's horrible, here's $100!


Yes, but surely if someone spills a drink on our seats that qualifies for a cleaning fee?


----------



## Sacto Burbs

The new two question CSR survey works !

Reported two underage riders on separate tickets under serious rider concern. First one handled well. Second one, not so well, so I ignored the followup "survey" which was "is your problem solved".

Got not one, but two followup CSRs. A good system. Eliminates bogus repeat cut-and-paste replies. thehappytypist - what do you think ? When did this Yes/No survey replace the CSR star system ?


----------



## UberHammer

thehappytypist said:


> If the rider insists and are aware it's not necessary, by Uber's standards, then yeah that's fine. Mainly we're looking for instances where a fare was paid in cash _and_ in the app.


In your opinion, do Uber employees realize that most full service restaurants don't make tipping necessary either unless it's a large party on one check?


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

UberHammer said:


> In your opinion, do Uber employees realize that most full service restaurants don't make tipping necessary either unless it's a large party on one check?


Kinda makes you wonder if TK leaves a tip for his servers, doesn't it?


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Sacto Burbs said:


> Got not one, but two followup CSRs. A good system.


Like most things Uber, seems to depend on who you get and which office. I've never received a follow up to a yes/no survey.


----------



## UberHammer

Michael - Cleveland said:


> Kinda makes you wonder if TK leaves a tip for his servers, doesn't it?


If Vegas would let me place a bet that he doesn't, I'd put a year's worth of income on it at any odds. Closest bet to a sure thing that has ever existed.

The guy is an engineering genius. But socially he is a moron. So of course anything people do for social reasons makes no sense to him. People don't tip because the restaurant requires it, or says it's necessary, or it's needed. It's a social thing. The only reason why restaurants make tipping for large parties on one check necessary is because the server for that party may only work that one party for the entire night, and they don't want the server to be screwed in case the person paying for the check is an asshole.... like Travis.


----------



## thehappytypist

KeJorn said:


> Yes, but surely if someone spills a drink on our seats that qualifies for a cleaning fee?


Of course. We just can't give out cleaning fees for things that are quickly cleaned up - like a few food crumbs or stray pet hairs. The cleaning fee is reimbursement for cleaning costs and time not driving, so very minor stuff shouldn't be paid out a fee. Especially since if one is handed out and the rider complains, it isn't warranted, we give the rider back their money BUT the driver keeps it. We prefer not to take back money that we've manually given a driver via adjustment or miscellaneous payment. It was our mistake in giving it so it would be a dick move to be all oops sorry, taking that back now.


----------



## thehappytypist

Sacto Burbs said:


> The new two question CSR survey works !
> 
> Reported two underage riders on separate tickets under serious rider concern. First one handled well. Second one, not so well, so I ignored the followup "survey" which was "is your problem solved".
> 
> Got not one, but two followup CSRs. A good system. Eliminates bogus repeat cut-and-paste replies. thehappytypist - what do you think ? When did this Yes/No survey replace the CSR star system ?


I honestly have no clue. This wasn't announced or anything so the first time I heard about it was actually here. Sounds like a great system if saying "No" means someone follows up with you.


----------



## thehappytypist

UberHammer said:


> In your opinion, do Uber employees realize that most full service restaurants don't make tipping necessary either unless it's a large party on one check?


By Uber's standards means that the rider has gotten the message and understands "No tip needed". If they tip then complain that they didn't know tip was "included" and the driver didn't inform them, it might be an issue. It's pretty ****ed up.


----------



## UberHammer

thehappytypist said:


> By Uber's standards means that the rider has gotten the message and understands "No tip needed". If they tip then complain that *they didn't know tip was "included"* and the driver didn't inform them, it might be an issue. It's pretty ****ed up.


Where is the "included" tip?


----------



## thehappytypist

UberHammer said:


> Where is the "included" tip?


Exactly. Which is why "included" is in "lol are you serious" quotes.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> Where is the "included" tip?


In their marketing. That's where.


----------



## UberHammer

thehappytypist said:


> Exactly. Which is why "included" is in "lol are you serious" quotes.


Why do CSRs think it's funny?


----------



## thehappytypist

UberHammer said:


> Why do CSRs think it's funny?


Perhaps you misread what I was saying? The statement that tip is included is what makes us go lol are you serious.


----------



## UberHammer

thehappytypist said:


> Perhaps you misread what I was saying? The statement that tip is included is what makes us go lol are you serious.


Where is the statement, that tip is included, coming from?


----------



## Actionjax

https://help.uber.com/h/1be144ab-609a-43c5-82b5-b9c7de5ec073

It's an implied statement. There is no need to tip. Customer is responsible for the fare only.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> https://help.uber.com/h/1be144ab-609a-43c5-82b5-b9c7de5ec073
> 
> It's an implied statement. There is no need to tip. Customer is responsible for the fare only.


Thanks. My point is this is the exact same policy most full service restaurants have too.

You do not need to tip at most full service restaurants, except for large parties on one check. If your party at the restaurant is six people (like an UberXL) or four people (like an UberX), the restaurant will let you leave without leaving anything extra for the server as long as you paid the bill. You don't need to tip. It's not necessary. It's not required.

Most people don't tip at restaurants because the restaurant says they need to, or says it's necessary, or says it's required. The only people who tip at restaurants because it's needed, or necessary or required are those paying the bill for parties large enough to exceed the restaurants policy where tipping becomes needed/necessary/required. Everyone else tipping at restaurants is tipping for social reasons, not restaurant policy reasons.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> Thanks. My point is this is the exact same policy most full service restaurants have too.
> 
> You do not need to tip at most full service restaurants, except for large parties on one check. If your party at the restaurant is six people (like an UberXL) or four people (like an UberX), the restaurant will let you leave without leaving anything extra for the server as long as you paid the bill. You don't need to tip. It's not necessary. It's not required.
> 
> Most people don't tip at restaurants because the restaurant says they need to, or says it's necessary, or says it's required. The only people who tip at restaurants because it's needed, or necessary or required are those paying the bill for parties large enough to exceed the restaurants policy where tipping becomes needed/necessary/required. Everyone else tipping at restaurants is tipping for social reasons, not restaurant policy reasons.


And if a restaurant had a sign on the door that said "No Tip required" as you walked in would you tip? Or would it be an implied statement. Even when your server said no tip is required.

Also what if your server brought you the Visa machine and there was no place to put a tip. And after seeing the statement at the door you would assume no tip is needed.

You see it's how it's been framed. Uber is this regardless of the standards around it for everything else.

You tip the pizza delivery guy, but not the USPS or UPS driver. Both are delivery people. So why shouldn't both get tips.

It's perception that Uber has created. They are different than any other industry in their concept. And it's the message regardless of social norms.

If you were presented with the same message and knew nothing about Uber you would think the same thing. Especially if you never took cabs.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> And if a restaurant had a sign on the door that said "No Tip required" as you walked in would you tip? Or would it be an implied statement. Even when your server said no tip is required.
> 
> Also what if your server brought you the Visa machine and there was no place to put a tip. And after seeing the statement at the door you would assume no tip is needed.
> 
> You see it's how it's been framed. Uber is this regardless of the standards around it for everything else.
> 
> You tip the pizza delivery guy, but not the USPS or UPS driver. Both are delivery people. So why shouldn't both get tips.
> 
> It's perception that Uber has created. They are different than any other industry in their concept. And it's the message regardless of social norms.
> 
> If you were presented with the same message and knew nothing about Uber you would think the same thing. Especially if you never took cabs.


I don't disagree with you at all.

My question to happy is do Uber employees realize that most full service restaurants don't make tipping necessary either unless it's a large party on one check? The point being that an Uber driver accepting a tip isn't breaking Uber's policy any more than restaurant servers break the restaurants policyy when they accept a tip.

I've had customers say riding in my Acura is the best UberX ride they've ever had, and then say "the tip is included, right". When I say no, there's no tip included in the fare, they typically tip me. The training video says to tell them tipping is not necessary when they offer a tip, but there is nothing, I repeat NOTHING in the Uber/Driver contract obligating me to say that. Nor am I obligated to have a sign in my car that says "no tip required". If I'm offered a tip, I say thank you. If they ask "the tips is included, right", I tell them it's not. It's the honest truth, and I'm not asking for tips. But I'm pretty sure this would get me fired by at least some Uber city managers, if not most of them if a CSR flagged me for it.

If however they say to me "there's no need to tip, right", I confirm that is Uber's policy on the matter. Again, it's the truth. I'm not here, nor am I willing, to participate in Uber's great attempt to change how society treats service workers. If not being a minion of this great endeavor of Travis gets me deactivated, then so be it.


----------



## Actionjax

UberHammer said:


> I don't disagree with you at all.
> 
> My question to happy is do Uber employees realize that most full service restaurants don't make tipping necessary either unless it's a large party on one check? The point being that an Uber driver accepting a tip isn't breaking Uber's policy any more than restaurant servers break the restaurants policyy when they accept a tip.
> 
> I've had customers say riding in my Acura is the best UberX ride they've ever had, and then say "the tip is included, right". When I say no, there's no tip included in the fare, they typically tip me. The training video says to tell them tipping is not necessary when they offer a tip, but there is nothing, I repeat NOTHING in the Uber/Driver contract obligating me to say that. Nor am I obligated to have a sign in my car that says "no tip required". If I'm offered a tip, I say thank you. If they ask "the tips is included, right", I tell them it's not. It's the honest truth, and I'm not asking for tips. But I'm pretty sure this would get me fired by at least some Uber city managers, if not most of them if a CSR flagged me for it.
> 
> If however they say to me "there's no need to tip, right", I confirm that is Uber's policy on the matter. Again, it's the truth. I'm not here, nor am I willing, to participate in Uber's great attempt to change how society treats service workers. If not being a minion of this great endeavor of Travis gets me deactivated, then so be it.


I think it's safe to say if a restaurant had the same policy like Uber you wouldn't find the best servers in the industry working there. Oh wait that's what Uber has done to drivers. And long term you get what you pay for.


----------



## UberHammer

Actionjax said:


> I think it's safe to say if a restaurant had the same policy like Uber you wouldn't find the best servers in the industry working there. Oh wait that's what Uber has done to drivers. And long term you get what you pay for.


Exactly! Restaurant owners encourage their customers to "please tip your servers" because it's what smart business people do!


----------



## UberRules?

Hi Happy Typist,

Thanks for taking up this discussion and filling the role of providing the CSR perspective; Don't let Trolls like cybertect69 (what an A-hole) discourage you from contributing. Thanks for answering my questions. Now, please let me follow up. What happens if a second incident of the same nature is reported by another rider, even if it also can be shown not to be true (no supporting evidence, and circumstantial evidence that contradicts the rider's incident report). Dose it matter? What is considered a pattern of "bad" behavior to warrant de-activation? I suspect not all cases are handle on a consistent basis. Am I right?


----------



## UberRules?

Hi Happy Typist,

Thanks for taking up this discussion and filling the role of providing the CSR perspective; Don't let Trolls like cybertect69 (what an A-hole) discourage you from contributing. Thanks for answering my questions. Now, please let me follow up. What happens if a second incident of the same nature is reported by another rider, even if it also can be shown not to be true (no supporting evidence, and circumstantial evidence that contradicts the rider's incident report). Dose it matter? What is considered a pattern of "bad" behavior to warrant de-activation? I suspect not all cases are handle on a consistent basis. Am I right?


----------



## UberRules?

Hi Happy Typist,

Thanks for taking up this discussion and filling the role of providing the CSR perspective; Don't let Trolls like cybertect69 (what an A-hole) discourage you from contributing. Thanks for answering my questions. Now, please let me follow up. What happens if a second incident of the same nature is reported by another rider, even if it also can be shown not to be true (no supporting evidence, and circumstantial evidence that contradicts the rider's incident report). Dose it matter? What is considered a pattern of "bad" behavior to warrant de-activation? I suspect not all cases are handle on a consistent basis. Am I right?


----------



## UberRules?

Hi Happy Typist,

Thanks for taking up this discussion and filling the role of providing the CSR perspective; Don't let Trolls like cybertect69 (what an A-hole) discourage you from contributing. Thanks for answering my questions. Now, please let me follow up. What happens if a second incident of the same nature is reported by another rider, even if it also can be shown not to be true (no supporting evidence, and circumstantial evidence that contradicts the rider's incident report). Dose it matter? What is considered a pattern of "bad" behavior to warrant de-activation? I suspect not all cases are handle on a consistent basis. Am I right?


----------



## UberRules?

Hi Happy Typist,

Thanks for taking up this discussion and filling the role of providing the CSR perspective; Don't let Trolls like cybertect69 (what an A-hole) discourage you from contributing. Thanks for answering my questions. Now, please let me follow up. What happens if a second incident of the same nature is reported by another rider, even if it also can be shown not to be true (no supporting evidence, and circumstantial evidence that contradicts the rider's incident report). Dose it matter? What is considered a pattern of "bad" behavior to warrant de-activation? I suspect not all cases are handle on a consistent basis. Am I right?


----------



## thehappytypist

UberRules? said:


> Hi Happy Typist,
> 
> Thanks for taking up this discussion and filling the role of providing the CSR perspective; Don't let Trolls like cybertect69 (what an A-hole) discourage you from contributing. Thanks for answering my questions. Now, please let me follow up. What happens if a second incident of the same nature is reported by another rider, even if it also can be shown not to be true (no supporting evidence, and circumstantial evidence that contradicts the rider's incident report). Dose it matter? What is considered a pattern of "bad" behavior to warrant de-activation? I suspect not all cases are handle on a consistent basis. Am I right?


Some of this is by observation because reports of impaired driving are kicked up to a team that's over my head. In general we're going to look at the history of reports on both sides. Does the rider complain a lot? Does the driver have other complaints that may be related, such as unsafe driving complaints? It's usually looked at on a case by case basis with really no hard rules/guidelines.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

UberHammer said:


> If Vegas would let me place a bet that he doesn't, I'd put a year's worth of income on it at any odds. Closest bet to a sure thing that has ever existed.


I disagree...
I'd bet my bottom dollar he tips the same way every normal person does.
And THAT is what makes him and his policy hypocritical.


----------



## UberRules?

thehappytypist said:


> Some of this is by observation because reports of impaired driving are kicked up to a team that's over my head. In general we're going to look at the history of reports on both sides. Does the rider complain a lot? Does the driver have other complaints that may be related, such as unsafe driving complaints? It's usually looked at on a case by case basis with really no hard rules/guidelines.


First apologies (to everyone) for all the repeated messages, there was a problem with the server, that kept telling me there was an error!!! and try again. And I did, again and again. Please, someone in charge of the forum, delete all those duplicate messages. Or is that my job? Tell me how.

HappyTypist, thank you again for you honest answer. You only know what you know. Like much of Uber customer service structure, "special team review" is 
shrouded in mystery, and built to deflect or exhaust both divers and riders complaints. (Sorry for editorial comment.) Let it suffice it to say people on the team will make decisions base on what they (subjectively) consider is a pattern of conduct base on a limited number of reports - "no (apparent) hard rules or guidelines" Your and my personal opinions aside, do you think anyone in Uber management, believes that that this might be a flawed or sustainable process. I guess it's working for them for now but what would cause them to be more open and accountable? (Rhetorical Question)

Now about you, what could Uber do to make the job of CSR better? What could or should drivers do to make the job of the CSR better? I really want know. To save time, you can just direct me to an appropriate thread or forum. Thanks


----------



## thehappytypist

UberRules? said:


> First apologies (to everyone) for all the repeated messages, there was a problem with the server, that kept telling me there was an error!!! and try again. And I did, again and again. Please, someone in charge of the forum, delete all those duplicate messages. Or is that my job? Tell me how.
> 
> HappyTypist, thank you again for you honest answer. You only know what you know. Like much of Uber customer service structure, "special team review" is
> shrouded in mystery, and built to deflect or exhaust both divers and riders complaints. (Sorry for editorial comment.) Let it suffice it to say people on the team will make decisions base on what they (subjectively) consider is a pattern of conduct base on a limited number of reports - "no (apparent) hard rules or guidelines" Your and my personal opinions aside, do you think anyone in Uber management, believes that that this might be a flawed or sustainable process. I guess it's working for them for now but what would cause them to be more open and accountable? (Rhetorical Question)
> 
> Now about you, what could Uber do to make the job of CSR better? What could or should drivers do to make the job of the CSR better? I really want know. To save time, you can just direct me to an appropriate thread or forum. Thanks


On one hand, I do get what you're saying. On the other though, I do think it's a good idea to do it on a case by case basis rather than going "Oh two reports now? DEACTIVATE!" It's better to investigate, at least in my opinion.

For someone on my level, better training for the overseas agents would be great. In general, more communication. They've always been terrible at letting us know about changes or special events/promotions.


----------



## UberRules?

thehappytypist said:


> On one hand, I do get what you're saying. On the other though, I do think it's a good idea to do it on a case by case basis rather than going "Oh two reports now? DEACTIVATE!" It's better to investigate, at least in my opinion.
> 
> For someone on my level, better training for the overseas agents would be great. In general, more communication. They've always been terrible at letting us know about changes or special events/promotions.[/QUOTE
> 
> OK, case by case is a good approach. However do "we" really know what is investigated and why it is relevant? Did you ever get a report back from the team that investigated? Were you even notified of a decision on a case that you passed along? I apologize if all these questions I am asking are inappropriately directed at you. But I appreciate any insight you might have on the Uber "process". Thanks


----------



## thehappytypist

For things that are sent directly to the incident response team, we generally don't find out the outcome unless we save the ticket number and go back later to check. At that point it's not even our ticket, we just passed it along to the right place without saying a word to the rider.


----------



## UberRules?

thehappytypist said:


> For things that are sent directly to the incident response team, we generally don't find out the outcome unless we save the ticket number and go back later to check. At that point it's not even our ticket, we just passed it along to the right place without saying a word to the rider.


Thanks, no more questions - on this topic.


----------



## Oh My

Here's a question......

On Christmas Eve 2014 I was threatened by a rider and mentioned to the CSR that we deserve a Driver's Bill Of Rights like cabs are (and the main issue with this comment is that we have a RIGHT to know where the passenger wants to go - an address or at least an intersection - not just a "TURN RIGHT AT THE NEXT CORNER AND I'LL TELL YOU WHAT TO DO!").

That female CSR said that an Uber driver Bill Of Rights was "in the works". What's the progress on that or was it just lip service or a flat-out lie? I'm confident it was both but you worked there.


----------



## thehappytypist

Oh My said:


> Here's a question......
> 
> On Christmas Eve 2014 I was threatened by a rider and mentioned to the CSR that we deserve a Driver's Bill Of Rights like cabs are (and the main issue with this comment is that we have a RIGHT to know where the passenger wants to go - an address or at least an intersection - not just a "TURN RIGHT AT THE NEXT CORNER AND I'LL TELL YOU WHAT TO DO!").
> 
> That female CSR said that an Uber driver Bill Of Rights was "in the works". What's the progress on that or was it just lip service or a flat-out lie? I'm confident it was both but you worked there.


It was probably lip service. That's kind of our response to suggestions - the current wording doesn't say it's in the works. They are flagged as feedback and management says someone reads those (I doubt it, honestly) but that doesn't mean we're actually working on it.


----------



## Another Uber Driver

thehappytypist said:


> suggestions - They are flagged as feedback and management says someone reads those (I doubt it, honestly)


........likely a Trainee for the Position of Third Assistant Floor Scrubber............


----------



## Jam Val

thehappytypist I've seen drivers get weekly summaries that include their acceptance rate percentages, a few sentences from riders feedback (so sweet and professional or great driver!) and things like that. Is that only available in select markets because we don't seem to have that here in Charlotte.


----------



## thehappytypist

Jam Val said:


> thehappytypist I've seen drivers get weekly summaries that include their acceptance rate percentages, a few sentences from riders feedback (so sweet and professional or great driver!) and things like that. Is that only available in select markets because we don't seem to have that here in Charlotte.


Far as I know, that should be in all markets. I'd write in if you aren't getting the weekly summary.


----------



## Jam Val

thehappytypist Thanks!


----------



## UberRules?

UberHammer said:


> At ANY business in America, if you punch a worker you never step foot in the business again...
> 
> ...except Uber. She probably got a free ride credit.
> 
> I'm not going hyperbole by saying this.... UBER IS ****ING INSANE TO TREAT IT'S DRIVERS WITH THIS LITTLE AMOUNT OF RESPECT!!!!!


I understand why you are upset. But turn it around, a rider says you hit him/her. No witnesses, no injuries, no police report, just you said/they said. Would you expect to be de-activated? In my opinion, Uber shouldn't be making decisions on based on anonymous, unsubstantiated statements. Unfortunately the do all the time.


----------



## doyousensehumor

Oh My said:


> that we have a RIGHT to know where the passenger wants to go - an address or at least an intersection - not just a "TURN RIGHT AT THE NEXT CORNER AND I'LL TELL YOU WHAT TO DO!").


I have had The same proplem several times, and It goes like this:

Me: Good evening, where to?
Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
Me: Where are we headed?
Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
Me: Do you have major crossstreets, address, or name of business?
Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
Me: Sir, I need to know where we are going before we go.
Pax yells: JUST ****ING DRIVE!!!
Me: Get out of the car. 
You cant kick me out.
Me: I just did.
What are you going to do if I dont?
I'll call the police 
*Pax gets out and slams door hard as he can. *

thehappytypist If a passenger emails in saying "your driver kicked me out for no reason" and driver emails "pax refused to tell me destination and was verbally abusive" would Uber threaten to deactivate driver? This happenes about once per 100 rides.


----------



## Uberselectguy

Big Machine said:


> Im trying to figure out how you thought what you do with uber was anything besides a commodity. Do you not know what a commodity is? I think a lot of Uber drivers need to get their heads out of their asses and realize they are not doing God's work by driving for Uber and are just filling a roll that can be filled by any non skilled person out there.


Yep, right from the horses mouth. Drivers are perceived as commodities, in line with cattle in feed lots. Uber is run in such a way that any first year business undergrad can foretell its demise.

This corporate culture is why the money is slowing down, and the boys on Wall Street are writing that the IPO will fail.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

doyousensehumor said:


> I have had The same proplem several times, and It goes like this:
> 
> Me: Good evening, where to?
> Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
> Me: Where are we headed?
> Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
> Me: Do you have major crossstreets, address, or name of business?
> Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
> Me: Sir, I need to know where we are going before we go.
> Pax yells: JUST ****ING DRIVE!!!
> Me: Get out of the car.
> You cant kick me out.
> Me: I just did.
> What are you going to do if I dont?
> I'll call the police
> *Pax gets out and slams door hard as he can. *
> 
> thehappytypist If a passenger emails in saying "your driver kicked me out for no reason" and driver emails "pax refused to tell me destination and was verbally abusive" would Uber threaten to deactivate driver? This happenes about once per 100 rides.


Me: Good evening, where to?
Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
Me: Where are we headed?
Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
Me: *Unless this is a kidnapping or I'm your get-away driver, this car isn't moving until I know the destination.*


----------



## thehappytypist

doyousensehumor said:


> I have had The same proplem several times, and It goes like this:
> 
> Me: Good evening, where to?
> Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
> Me: Where are we headed?
> Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
> Me: Do you have major crossstreets, address, or name of business?
> Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
> Me: Sir, I need to know where we are going before we go.
> Pax yells: JUST ****ING DRIVE!!!
> Me: Get out of the car.
> You cant kick me out.
> Me: I just did.
> What are you going to do if I dont?
> I'll call the police
> *Pax gets out and slams door hard as he can. *
> 
> thehappytypist If a passenger emails in saying "your driver kicked me out for no reason" and driver emails "pax refused to tell me destination and was verbally abusive" would Uber threaten to deactivate driver? This happenes about once per 100 rides.


No, we wouldn't. If the rider is being a dick, you have every right to kick them to the curb. You never know when a situation will escalate to something truly dangerous so it's best to end the ride before it possibly gets to that point. My best advice is make sure to write in about it right away so we know what's up if the rider complains.


----------



## brikosig

doyousensehumor said:


> I have had The same proplem several times, and It goes like this:
> 
> Me: Good evening, where to?
> Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
> Me: Where are we headed?
> Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
> Me: Do you have major crossstreets, address, or name of business?
> Pax: Turn right at the next corner.
> Me: Sir, I need to know where we are going before we go.
> Pax yells: JUST ****ING DRIVE!!!
> Me: Get out of the car.
> You cant kick me out.
> Me: I just did.
> What are you going to do if I dont?
> I'll call the police
> *Pax gets out and slams door hard as he can. *
> 
> thehappytypist If a passenger emails in saying "your driver kicked me out for no reason" and driver emails "pax refused to tell me destination and was verbally abusive" would Uber threaten to deactivate driver? This happenes about once per 100 rides.


After he gave you the "just Fkn drive"..... say nothing, pull over, get out of the car, walk around and open his door...... then type in 911 on your phone (don't hit send) and tell him... My Car-My Rules..... now get the *** out or I dial 911.

If you do this he/she won't have the option of slamming your door. Additionally, when you just stop and get out it SERIOUSLY intimidates them because they have no idea what you're going to do.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

brikosig said:


> After he gave you the "just Fkn drive"..... say nothing, pull over, get out of the car, walk around and open his door...... then type in 911 on your phone (don't hit send) and tell him... My Car-My Rules..... now get the *** out or I dial 911.
> 
> If you do this he/she won't have the option of slamming your door. Additionally, when you just stop and get out it SERIOUSLY intimidates them because they have no idea what you're going to do.


I like that idea to prevent people from slamming the doors - but as you said, it's also intimidating and puts the driver within 'striking distance' of an angry pax and may be threatening enough to have a higher chance of escalating the situation to violence.


----------



## brikosig

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I like that idea to prevent people from slamming the doors - but as you said, it's also intimidating and puts the driver within 'striking distance' of an angry pax and may be threatening enough to have a higher chance of escalating the situation to violence.


true.... How i minimize that is when I open their door I completely back away keeping the door between myself and the pax.... if they were to come around and start anything.... they would then get the pepper spray.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

brikosig said:


> true.... How i minimize that is when I open their door I completely back away keeping the door between myself and the pax.... if they were to come around and start anything.... they would then get the pepper spray.


well thought out!


----------



## doyousensehumor

I disagree.. if you feel the pax is a threat, the threat only grows when they realise they are being kicked out. Therefor, the safest place you can be is the drivers seat. Never get out unless they are actually phisically attacking you from the inside of the car, in which case you are fleeing.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Uberselectguy said:


> Yep, right from the horses mouth. Drivers are perceived as commodities, in line with cattle in feed lots. Uber is run in such a way that any first year business undergrad can foretell its demise.
> 
> This corporate culture is why the money is slowing down, and the boys on Wall Street are writing that the IPO will fail.


POST # 846/Uberselectguy: "Ahoy!" and
Welcome to the UP.Net Forums
from Mostly Dark...overnight...Marco Is-
land on Florida's Wild SSW Coast.

Hey! Can we do a Lil' Info Tradin' ?

I've got the Hyperlink to a "Complaints"
Thread [20Feb'15] authored by a then-
departing "Ex-CSR...with Equity" LIC,NY.'s
john djjjoe , wherein he clarifies [with
"commodity"-bashing] Just... How Little
Drivers Matter:

........https://uberpeople.net/posts/187189

I, and many other Members would greatly
benefit from Hyperlinks to these Wall St.
Pundits that Already Declaring the
Upcoming IPO "an Epic FAIL".

Bison Admires.
Bison Inspires!
Bison bashes Travis...Today!


----------



## LolX

Am only a rider now... had an idiot drive me who was eating fast food (and fairly sure they got it on the way to get me because it took forever) -- I sent a note do I get a refund?


----------



## Einstein

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> I, and many other Members would greatly
> benefit from Hyperlinks to these Wall St.
> Pundits that Already Declaring the
> Upcoming IPO "an Epic FAIL".


https://uberpeople.net/threads/thick-white-smoke-and-50-billion-mirrors.41517/


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Einstein said:


> https://uberpeople.net/threads/thick-white-smoke-and-50-billion-mirrors.41517/


I missed it... where's the "Wall Street boys" at?


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 846/Uberselectguy: "Ahoy!" and
> Welcome to the UP.Net Forums
> from Mostly Dark...overnight...Marco Is-
> land on Florida's Wild SSW Coast.


Ah, Marco Island... 10 years of vacations with the kids there when they were little.
<sigh>


----------



## Sydney Uber

LolX said:


> Am only a rider now... had an idiot drive me who was eating fast food (and fairly sure they got it on the way to get me because it took forever) -- I sent a note do I get a refund?


Should've asked for some fries with the free water and mints you probably tax.


----------



## Einstein

Michael - Cleveland said:


> I missed it... where's the "Wall Street boys" at?


Here's an article:

http://investorplace.com/ipo-playbook/another-reason-to-avoid-the-uber-ipo/#.VinA536rRaQ


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Einstein said:


> Here's an article:
> http://investorplace.com/ipo-playbook/another-reason-to-avoid-the-uber-ipo/#.VinA536rRaQ


That's not an article it's a blog piece (ie: editorial opinion that does not get 'fact-checked'). 
And it isn't from or about any of the Wall Street 'boys' - 
It's by Lawrence Meyers, who has a financial interest in seeing all rideshare companies fail (because he is invested in a company that finances Taxi Medallions).

Meyers is all over the web posting 'articles' about how well taxi companies are 'really' doing - and how flawed 'ride-sourcing/hailing/sharing' is.


----------



## LolX

Sydney Uber said:


> Should've asked for some fries with the free water and mints you probably tax.


No I don't care about that stuff or expect it and usually tip. I just want a driver who on a busy freeway isn't eating a cheeseburger but seems like that's too much to ask.


----------



## Sydney Uber

LolX said:


> No I don't care about that stuff or expect it and usually tip. I just want a driver who on a busy freeway isn't eating a cheeseburger but seems like that's too much to ask.


You just don't appreciate the skill it takes to eat and drive at the same time!


----------



## UberTaxPro

john djjjoe said:


> On weekends during the day if I was in high school and could drive my parents car where they paid insurance and gas


Jeez, I guess you didn't like your parents very much!


----------



## Sly

LolX said:


> No I don't care about that stuff or expect it and usually tip. I just want a driver who on a busy freeway isn't eating a cheeseburger but seems like that's too much to ask.


Sometimes you don't get a break and being greedy you refuse to turn the ap off and instead eat at the wheel.


----------



## brikosig

Sydney Uber said:


> You just don't appreciate the skill it takes to eat and drive at the same time!


dude... you need to be more multi-taskable......
.........eat takeout with a fork - drive with my knee - google maps on my droid - choose a pandora station on my droid - surf XFinity streaming TV and choose a show on my tablet - ....and talk to the pax


----------



## KGB7

LolX said:


> No I don't care about that stuff or expect it and usually tip. I just want a driver who on a busy freeway isn't eating a cheeseburger but seems like that's too much to ask.


Don't complain about free entertainment.


----------



## Sacto Burbs

LolX said:


> Am only a rider now... had an idiot drive me who was eating fast food (and fairly sure they got it on the way to get me because it took forever) -- I sent a note do I get a refund?


Did you get your ride? If so no refund. Your revenge is the 1* you gave him.


----------



## LolX

Sacto Burbs said:


> Did you get your ride? If so no refund. Your revenge is the 1* you gave him.


I used to lurk a lot for posts like this... Uber is the only business int the world that operates like that. Every other would give you at least a partial refund, most comp it. But in this dumbass Uber way of doing things world, this is logical.


----------



## Disgusted Driver

LolX said:


> I used to lurk a lot for posts like this... Uber is the only business int the world that operates like that. Every other would give you at least a partial refund, most comp it. But in this dumbass Uber way of doing things world, this is logical.


I can understand your desire for a safe ride, I mean you did pay a safe ride fee to assure it!

But seriously, what the hell do you expect? You paid dirt for your ride, rates suck pretty much everywhere. Do you tip your driver if you had a good ride? Most do not! Uber is killing the very business they created with a race to the bottom in rates and accepting any warm body with a pulse to drive. They have no quality control and care only about monopolizing the market at all costs.

I've enjoyed a 10 day vacation from driving, just wasn't worth washing the car to get self entitled cheapskates in the car to drive around for pennies.


----------



## LolX

Disgusted Driver said:


> I can understand your desire for a safe ride, I mean you did pay a safe ride fee to assure it!
> 
> But seriously, what the hell do you expect? You paid dirt for your ride, rates suck pretty much everywhere. Do you tip your driver if you had a good ride? Most do not! Uber is killing the very business they created with a race to the bottom in rates and accepting any warm body with a pulse to drive. They have no quality control and care only about monopolizing the market at all costs.
> 
> I've enjoyed a 10 day vacation from driving, just wasn't worth washing the car to get self entitled cheapskates in the car to drive around for pennies.


I don't expect much from Uber to be honest. I used to expect a certain level of driver/car but that time went by a year and a half ago. The people driving now are garbage that I've gotten of late.

I don'y expect someone to stop for McDonalds then eat while driving. The whole you can "1*" them is "revenge"... no pax gives a shit about that. I travel all the time and if a hotel/airline screws something up, you get credit or a partial refund or something. No one cares about "wow I can screw this persons rating up".


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

brikosig said:


> dude... you need to be more multi-taskable......
> .........eat takeout with a fork - drive with my knee - google maps on my droid - choose a pandora station on my droid - surf XFinity streaming TV and choose a show on my tablet - ....and talk to the pax


POST # 867/brikosig: MULTITASKING-
UPNFer- You !

MerryChristmas from Marco Island, FL.


----------



## secretadmirer

Merry xmas happytypist wherever you may be.


----------



## Casuale Haberdasher

Disgusted Driver said:


> I can understand your desire for a safe ride, I mean you did pay a safe ride fee to assure it!
> 
> But seriously, what the hell do you expect? You paid dirt for your ride, rates suck pretty much everywhere. Do you tip your driver if you had a good ride? Most do not! Uber is killing the very business they created with a race to the bottom in rates and accepting any warm body with a pulse to drive. They have no quality control and care only about monopolizing the market at all costs.
> 
> I've enjoyed a 10 day vacation from driving, just wasn't worth washing the car to get self entitled cheapskates in the car to drive around for pennies.


POST # 871/Disgusted Driver: Another
Superlative Post
from "Officer Cartman" of Raleigh, NC!
Have you checked your Profile Page ?

BTW: Do what I just did. Put Disgruntled
LolX in the IGNORE Trashcan!

Bison: Chortling !


----------



## john djjjoe

This thread has turned into a forum of its own. Damn.


----------



## Mshad

john djjjoe said:


> This thread has turned into a forum of its own. Damn.


Lol seems that way. So looking at the date stamp of your previous posts, I know it's been awhile since you worked for the company. But I was wondering if you know why they won't just add a tip option?


----------



## john djjjoe

Mshad said:


> Lol seems that way. So looking at the date stamp of your previous posts, I know it's been awhile since you worked for the company. But I was wondering if you know why they won't just add a tip option?


Honestly when I saw this I was going to just ignore it as a dumb/repeat question but I'll address it once because I don't think I've ever seen the right answer written out explicitly. I hope this post becomes a reference for answering this question.

You're not supposed to take ****ing tips. Uber's brand involves a seamless process where cash is not involved. That is not all of it, but it is important. Far more so than you giving out water bottles, mints, holding the door open, or any other shit you do to try and guilt the customer giving you one. Uber's brand is about providing a consistent, seamless experience to the rider. That is why even though you are classed as an IC you are not allowed to set your own fares. When you impose on the rider for a tip or make them root around for cash or feel like they should have it on them you are breaking the flow of what the ride is supposed to be.

At one point some drivers may have been deactivated for accepting tips when they were offered. You were NEVER supposed to accept tips. As an IC your agreement is to accept the pay rate offered or not to take the job. It is, unfortunately, impossible to monitor what you are doing or whether you are taking cash tips and so they cannot be precluded. Credit card based tips can easily though, and are, by the company not putting in a tip box. Because tipping should not be a thing here.

If you want to go set your own rates, please do so. If you want to go accept tips, enjoy that. That said, if you do either of these things you are not welcome to continue as a partner. Uber's services to you are provided based on your accepting certain guidelines. Not taking tips is a part of those guidelines. I don't understand the jackasses on here who complain that because it is *their* business they can do *whatever* they want while ignoring the reality that they are only bound by these guidelines becuase they agreed to them. Uber does NOT have a monopoly- if you want tips go slap a pink moustache on your car or work for a black car service or any one of a million other dispatch methods. You do NOT have the right to use Uber's service to make it easier to find customers and then spit on Uber's brand. Get off your high horses.

To be clear, the negative attitude in this post is aimed at those who **** about not being allowed to accept tips and who do so anyway, not at you Mshad.

I hope this answers your question.


----------



## Red

john djjjoe said:


> Honestly when I saw this I was going to just ignore it as a dumb/repeat question but I'll address it once because I don't think I've ever seen the right answer written out explicitly. I hope this post becomes a reference for answering this question.
> 
> You're not supposed to take ****ing tips. Uber's brand involves a seamless process where cash is not involved. That is not all of it, but it is important. Far more so than you giving out water bottles, mints, holding the door open, or any other shit you do to try and guilt the customer giving you one. Uber's brand is about providing a consistent, seamless experience to the rider. That is why even though you are classed as an IC you are not allowed to set your own fares. When you impose on the rider for a tip or make them root around for cash or feel like they should have it on them you are breaking the flow of what the ride is supposed to be.
> 
> At one point some drivers may have been deactivated for accepting tips when they were offered. You were NEVER supposed to accept tips. As an IC your agreement is to accept the pay rate offered or not to take the job. It is, unfortunately, impossible to monitor what you are doing or whether you are taking cash tips and so they cannot be precluded. Credit card based tips can easily though, and are, by the company not putting in a tip box. Because tipping should not be a thing here.
> 
> If you want to go set your own rates, please do so. If you want to go accept tips, enjoy that. That said, if you do either of these things you are not welcome to continue as a partner. Uber's services to you are provided based on your accepting certain guidelines. Not taking tips is a part of those guidelines. I don't understand the jackasses on here who complain that because it is *their* business they can do *whatever* they want while ignoring the reality that they are only bound by these guidelines becuase they agreed to them. Uber does NOT have a monopoly- if you want tips go slap a pink moustache on your car or work for a black car service or any one of a million other dispatch methods. You do NOT have the right to use Uber's service to make it easier to find customers and then spit on Uber's brand. Get off your high horses.
> 
> To be clear, the negative attitude in this post is aimed at those who **** about not being allowed to accept tips and who do so anyway, not at you Mshad.
> 
> I hope this answers your question.


No it doesn't. He didn't ask about cash tips. Having an option of manual or preset percentage tip in the app doesn't make process non-seamless.
That what the question was. I may add my own: why are you avoiding the straight answer? As I'm sure you understood his question perfectly well?
Why Uber is at war on tipping culture without providing an adequate compensation to "partners" that should be the primary weapon in such campaign?
How on earth can "cheaper than taxi" price (minus 30%) eliminate the need to tip to ensure driver's well being? The ends don't meet here.


----------



## john djjjoe

Red said:


> No it doesn't. He didn't ask about cash tips. Having an option of manual or preset percentage tip in the app doesn't make process non-seamless.
> That what the question was. I may add my own: why are you avoiding the straight answer? As I'm sure you understood his question perfectly well?
> Why Uber is at war on tipping culture without providing an adequate compensation to "partners" that should be the primary weapon in such campaign?
> 
> How on earth can "cheaper than taxi" price (minus 30%) eliminate the need to tip to ensure driver's well being? The ends don't meet here.


I am not avoiding the straight answer. As I said explicitly, tipping is not supposed to be part of this process. By signing up with Uber you agree that your compensation will be what Uber negotiates on your behalf. If you do not agree that this is sufficient than you do not agree with the terms and you are free to go to Lyft. Full stop.

Please reread the above before moving on. Just to be safe.

Seamless and consistent in this context is embodied in the idea that the customer does not have to think about you as a person or as a driver and they can go about their business without having to really think about the process. The notion that you as a driver are unimportant isn't the point per se, but it is definitely integral to the Uber brand and what is going on here. Nobody is supposed to think about you or care about you ultimately. You are supposed to get paid what you agreed to get paid which is what Uber negotiates on your behalf. Again, full stop. Again, if you are unhappy with the compensation and think you can make more please go do so. Full stop.

This was never supposed to be about *making ends meet* as a sole income and if you are treating this as your primary occupation then you are not using this as intended and, well, your expectations are misaligned. Go work for a medallion cab company and see how that works out if you are only capable of driving a car.


----------



## sicky

Casuale Haberdasher said:


> POST # 860/Einstein: Sorry, but I'm
> UNIMPRESSED
> with Mr. LookatMe Meyers. He was SO
> VAIN he joined UPNF to give Fellow
> Notable Michael - Cleveland a Rasher
> of Sh☆t about pointing out his Heavily-
> into-Taxi-Medallions Position prejudicing
> his Overview of #[F]Uber's IPO-if-it-ever-
> Happens. So, I issued an Appropriate
> Verbal beatdown.
> 
> T H R E E...WEEKS....LATER.....he retorts
> with a "Gibberish" Complaint. At that
> point I went all "San Diego Chimp" on
> his Hollywood Blowhardiness, and he
> hasn't been heard from since!
> 
> What a F♡♡kin' Lightweight.


d*mn yo-don't let me get on your bad side!


----------



## john djjjoe

sicky said:


> d*mn yo-don't let me get on your bad side!


I want to dislike this post. You contribute nothing to my thread.


----------



## sicky

john djjjoe said:


> I am not avoiding the straight answer. As I said explicitly, tipping is not supposed to be part of this process. By signing up with Uber you agree that your compensation will be what Uber negotiates on your behalf. If you do not agree that this is sufficient than you do not agree with the terms and you are free to go to Lyft. Full stop.
> 
> Please reread the above before moving on. Just to be safe.
> 
> Seamless and consistent in this context is embodied in the idea that the customer does not have to think about you as a person or as a driver and they can go about their business without having to really think about the process. The notion that you as a driver are unimportant isn't the point per se, but it is definitely integral to the Uber brand and what is going on here. Nobody is supposed to think about you or care about you ultimately. You are supposed to get paid what you agreed to get paid which is what Uber negotiates on your behalf. Again, full stop. Again, if you are unhappy with the compensation and think you can make more please go do so. Full stop.
> 
> This was never supposed to be about *making ends meet* as a sole income and if you are treating this as your primary occupation then you are not using this as intended and, well, your expectations are misaligned. Go work for a medallion cab company and see how that works out if you are only capable of driving a car.


Originally I think Uber did mean for its service to be a full time occupation. They then pulled an about face when they had enough drivers and could lower their prices to the point where people couldn't make a living wage with it. In addition, the "employee" lawsuits caused uber to push out full time drivers so they could prove that the service was used to supplement another income.

I'm worried about the future of the economy, with so many employers wanting part time employees who will receive no benefits and substandard wages. But that's entirely another subject and I don't need to beat that horse again.


----------



## john djjjoe

sicky said:


> Originally I think Uber did mean for its service to be a full time occupation. They then pulled an about face when they had enough drivers and could lower their prices to the point where people couldn't make a living wage with it. In addition, the "employee" lawsuits caused uber to push out full time drivers so they could prove that the service was used to supplement another income.
> 
> I'm worried about the future of the economy, with so many employers wanting part time employees who will receive no benefits and substandard wages. But that's entirely another subject and I don't need to beat that horse again.


As someone who was in the room for the Series A pitch I can tell you that you are wrong. From the start the concept was matching people who had empty cars and free time with people who wanted rides and putting them together. It was not anticipated how many people were underemployed for a lack of initiative and would jump at an opportunity thrust into their arms. That caught everyone by surprise.

Your wanting it to be a full time job doesn't mean it was intended to be a full time job. If it was intended to produce sufficient revenue to employ people profitably the entire company would have been structured differently and concepts like Uber Eats/Uber Rush wouldn't have been roadmapped out.


----------



## sicky

john djjjoe said:


> Honestly when I saw this I was going to just ignore it as a dumb/repeat question but I'll address it once because I don't think I've ever seen the right answer written out explicitly. I hope this post becomes a reference for answering this question.
> 
> You're not supposed to take ****ing tips. Uber's brand involves a seamless process where cash is not involved. That is not all of it, but it is important. Far more so than you giving out water bottles, mints, holding the door open, or any other shit you do to try and guilt the customer giving you one. Uber's brand is about providing a consistent, seamless experience to the rider. That is why even though you are classed as an IC you are not allowed to set your own fares. When you impose on the rider for a tip or make them root around for cash or feel like they should have it on them you are breaking the flow of what the ride is supposed to be.
> 
> At one point some drivers may have been deactivated for accepting tips when they were offered. You were NEVER supposed to accept tips. As an IC your agreement is to accept the pay rate offered or not to take the job. It is, unfortunately, impossible to monitor what you are doing or whether you are taking cash tips and so they cannot be precluded. Credit card based tips can easily though, and are, by the company not putting in a tip box. Because tipping should not be a thing here.
> 
> If you want to go set your own rates, please do so. If you want to go accept tips, enjoy that. That said, if you do either of these things you are not welcome to continue as a partner. Uber's services to you are provided based on your accepting certain guidelines. Not taking tips is a part of those guidelines. I don't understand the jackasses on here who complain that because it is *their* business they can do *whatever* they want while ignoring the reality that they are only bound by these guidelines becuase they agreed to them. Uber does NOT have a monopoly- if you want tips go slap a pink moustache on your car or work for a black car service or any one of a million other dispatch methods. You do NOT have the right to use Uber's service to make it easier to find customers and then spit on Uber's brand. Get off your high horses.
> 
> To be clear, the negative attitude in this post is aimed at those who **** about not being allowed to accept tips and who do so anyway, not at you Mshad.
> 
> I hope this answers your question.


Telling us we cannot accept tips is acting like an employer.
Not allowing us to set our own rates is acting like an employer.
Telling us how to act and speak towards customers is acting like an employer

That is my opinion, but obviously it is up to the courts to decide.

For the record, I don't want to be an Uber employee-I just want drivers to have more say in rates and the rating system. Most people would stop complaining if they didn't feel that Uber was taking advantage of them. Right-we can work elsewhere, I get it. Remember that most corporations are taking the same approach as Uber, denying benefits and fair compensation to their workers while insatiably enriching the executives and shareholders. The argument for fair wages is pointed at the economy as a whole, not just Uber.


----------



## john djjjoe

sicky said:


> Telling us we cannot accept tips is acting like an employer.
> Not allowing us to set our own rates is acting like an employer.
> Telling us how to act and speak towards customers is acting like an employer
> 
> That is my opinion, but obviously it is up to the courts to decide.
> 
> For the record, I don't want to be an Uber employee-I just want drivers to have more say in rates and the rating system. Most people would stop complaining if they didn't feel that Uber was taking advantage of them. Right-we can work elsewhere, I get it. Remember that most corporations are taking the same approach as Uber, denying benefits and fair compensation to their workers while insatiably enriching the executives and shareholders. The argument for fair wages is pointed at the economy as a whole, not just Uber.


You have no right to set your own rates or do things your way when doing trips with Uber. This is because you explicitly give that right up in order to use the Uber app. If you do not give those rights up, Uber does not agree to find you a customer. As an employee, the business cares about you generally. In this context you as an individual are simply not relevant.

You as an IC have every right not to use Uber. You are only being taken advantage of because you are allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. Presumably that is because Uber is the least bad option you have, or you could be a masocist. Either way, the reason is irrelevant.

I'm not going to argue over what constitutes *fair* because we both know how that will play out.

If you feel strongly enough about this I encourage you to develop an app-based dispatch service and grow the business and put Uber and Lyft both out of business. If you want to be tipped, just use Lyft. If you want to work for a black car base just go do that. If you hate the system call your politician. If none of the above work out for you, go start a riot. Just don't blame Uber for the situation. The only reason Uber is becoming a target is that Uber is providing you with the best alternative you have and so it becomes an easy target because it's a pain in the ass to go after everyone else and it's easy to demonize a big bad evil corporation.


----------



## Red

john djjjoe said:


> I am not avoiding the straight answer. As I said explicitly, tipping is not supposed to be part of this process. By signing up with Uber you agree that your compensation will be what Uber negotiates on your behalf. If you do not agree that this is sufficient than you do not agree with the terms and you are free to go to Lyft. Full stop.
> 
> Please reread the above before moving on. Just to be safe.
> 
> Seamless and consistent in this context is embodied in the idea that the customer does not have to think about you as a person or as a driver and they can go about their business without having to really think about the process. The notion that you as a driver are unimportant isn't the point per se, but it is definitely integral to the Uber brand and what is going on here. Nobody is supposed to think about you or care about you ultimately. You are supposed to get paid what you agreed to get paid which is what Uber negotiates on your behalf. Again, full stop. Again, if you are unhappy with the compensation and think you can make more please go do so. Full stop.
> 
> This was never supposed to be about *making ends meet* as a sole income and if you are treating this as your primary occupation then you are not using this as intended and, well, your expectations are misaligned. Go work for a medallion cab company and see how that works out if you are only capable of driving a car.


Bravo. If only we could get Travis, Josh & Co signatures under that statement world would become a little better place. Seamlessly uberless.


----------



## john djjjoe

Red said:


> Bravo. If only we could get Travis, Josh & Co signatures under that statement world would become a little better place. Seamlessly uberless.


Fortunately for me I don't have to pretend for the cameras/politicians.


----------



## Mshad

john djjjoe said:


> Honestly when I saw this I was going to just ignore it as a dumb/repeat question but I'll address it once because I don't think I've ever seen the right answer written out explicitly. I hope this post becomes a reference for answering this question.
> 
> You're not supposed to take ****ing tips. Uber's brand involves a seamless process where cash is not involved. That is not all of it, but it is important. Far more so than you giving out water bottles, mints, holding the door open, or any other shit you do to try and guilt the customer giving you one. Uber's brand is about providing a consistent, seamless experience to the rider. That is why even though you are classed as an IC you are not allowed to set your own fares. When you impose on the rider for a tip or make them root around for cash or feel like they should have it on them you are breaking the flow of what the ride is supposed to be.
> 
> At one point some drivers may have been deactivated for accepting tips when they were offered. You were NEVER supposed to accept tips. As an IC your agreement is to accept the pay rate offered or not to take the job. It is, unfortunately, impossible to monitor what you are doing or whether you are taking cash tips and so they cannot be precluded. Credit card based tips can easily though, and are, by the company not putting in a tip box. Because tipping should not be a thing here.
> 
> If you want to go set your own rates, please do so. If you want to go accept tips, enjoy that. That said, if you do either of these things you are not welcome to continue as a partner. Uber's services to you are provided based on your accepting certain guidelines. Not taking tips is a part of those guidelines. I don't understand the jackasses on here who complain that because it is *their* business they can do *whatever* they want while ignoring the reality that they are only bound by these guidelines becuase they agreed to them. Uber does NOT have a monopoly- if you want tips go slap a pink moustache on your car or work for a black car service or any one of a million other dispatch methods. You do NOT have the right to use Uber's service to make it easier to find customers and then spit on Uber's brand. Get off your high horses.
> 
> To be clear, the negative attitude in this post is aimed at those who **** about not being allowed to accept tips and who do so anyway, not at you Mshad.
> 
> I hope this answers your question.


Thanks for your answer John.
I see what you're saying. And a smart person can figure out that with uber it's all
About the future. From what I understood, all the drivers are doing is driving around building a brand for Uber. As they call themselves, they are a "technology" company. And one day- very very soon they'll be dominated by robot driven cars. 
To them tipping is a thing of the past. They don't consider it a service, more so as a technology which will eventually eliminate taxis all together. 
Like you said, the service doesnt reflect the price. You can do the best service and you are supposed to get as much as the worst service. And back to my point; a robot will always provide the same service. So when you put two and two together you get what Uber is trying to accomplish.

Might be my lack of sleep, but I think I discovered the true intention of Uber.

Again, thanks for helping clarify this. 
And to others being rude to John, we don't need that BS here.


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## john djjjoe

Mshad said:


> Thanks for your answer John.
> I see what you're saying. And a smart person can figure out that with uber it's all
> About the future. From what I understood, all the drivers are doing is driving around building a brand for Uber. As they call themselves, they are a "technology" company. And one day- very very soon they'll be dominated by robot driven cars.
> To them tipping is a thing of the past. They don't consider it a service, more so as a technology which will eventually eliminate taxis all together.
> Like you said, the service doesnt reflect the price. You can do the best service and you are supposed to get as much as the worst service. And back to my point; a robot will always provide the same service. So when you put two and two together you get what Uber is trying to accomplish.
> 
> Might be my lack of sleep, but I think I discovered the true intention of Uber.
> 
> Again, thanks for helping clarify this.
> And to others being rude to John, we don't need that BS here.


I appreciate the perspective. I find the attitudes amusing actually- it's like expressing an active desire to be misinformed.

Your perception is on point. Ideally there would be no drivers. Realistically automatic cars are a ways out but until they are ready the idea is to pretend the people are the robots.

It sounds mean and it is mean but it's reality. Unless you are a real employee don't build a career out of uber. If there was real money to be made in being the driver uber would have drivers as proper employees.


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## Mshad

john djjjoe said:


> I appreciate the perspective. I find the attitudes amusing actually- it's like expressing an active desire to be misinformed.
> 
> Your perception is on point. Ideally there would be no drivers. Realistically automatic cars are a ways out but until they are ready the idea is to pretend the people are the robots.
> 
> It sounds mean and it is mean but it's reality. Unless you are a real employee don't build a career out of uber. If there was real money to be made in being the driver uber would have drivers as proper employees.


Sometimes the truth hurts. It's unfortunate but it's the technology world we live in. Perhaps the best advice you've given is "Don't make a career out of Uber."
I am trying to become a police officer here, but it's a very very long process. So while waiting, I am driving Uber.

If you don't mind me asking, I did read the first few pages of the post last night, and I vaguely remember that you quit your job for something similar. How's that going?


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## john djjjoe

Mshad said:


> Sometimes the truth hurts. It's unfortunate but it's the technology world we live in. Perhaps the best advice you've given is "Don't make a career out of Uber."
> I am trying to become a police officer here, but it's a very very long process. So while waiting, I am driving Uber.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, I did read the first few pages of the post last night, and I vaguely remember that you quit your job for something similar. How's that going?


Everything is well thank you. Your situation is ideal: flexible enough that you can drive in free time but it's a stopgap. As long as you keep that attitude and recognize it for what it is you'll be good.


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## Djc

john djjjoe said:


> As someone who was in the room for the Series A pitch I can tell you that you are wrong. From the start the concept was matching people who had empty cars and free time with people who wanted rides and putting them together. It was not anticipated how many people were underemployed for a lack of initiative and would jump at an opportunity thrust into their arms. That caught everyone by surprise.
> 
> Your wanting it to be a full time job doesn't mean it was intended to be a full time job. If it was intended to produce sufficient revenue to employ people profitably the entire company would have been structured differently and concepts like Uber Eats/Uber Rush wouldn't have been roadmapped out.


I was just browsing through this thread as it came up in new posts and john djjjoe who are you really? You seem to have much more knowledge than a CSR. CSRs are not in the room for series A pitches they also don't care about investors. I agree with people who complain about uber pay/tips only have themselves to blame but many drivers are not educated enough to know that some of these mileage rates are making them work for less than $5hr after gas/maintenance not even car depreciation/mileage is factored into that yet which if you need money now you may not care about that in the now. I think in only a few cities is uber not taking advantage of their partners lack of knowledge or desperation. That is not cool. Yes its supposed to be part time work but uber needs some full time drivers to provide supply during the day while most are at work or late at night (excluding weekends) or the whole concept wouldnt work as customers would not get rides at these times or would be waiting 10+ mins not 3. If uber was more ethical they would hire some drivers full time to meet that supply at the proper legal rates then let everyone else work part time on their own schedule and be honest about potential earnings part time and that they should have another job on sign up. My question to you is if uber partners form a union what will uber do then? Every company hates unions and self driving cars are a few years off. What if government caps driver pool in relation to ability to earn living wage or forces higher licensing that people avcepting botyom of the barrel rates can no longer meet or afford to meet? Also if IC vs W-2 lawsuit fails (which I think it will) I'm sure other suits and government intervention will come and cause large financial costs so why not treat drivers properly pay them right and everyone wins. UberX as a service on passenger side has been decreasing in past year as rates have been cut and uber % has increased.


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## chi1cabby

john djjjoe said:


> As someone who was in the room for the Series A pitch I can tell you that you are wrong. From the start the concept was matching people who had empty cars and free time with people who wanted rides and putting them together.


It's obvious that you're a liar!
Uber Series A funding took place in Feb 2011. At that time Uber service comprised of UberBLACK & UberTaxi only. UberX ride-sharing wasn't even a notion in TravisK's head at that time.
https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/uber/funding-rounds

UberX was started as reaction to Lyft & Sidecar in 2nd half of 2012:
http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/12/lyft-and-sidecar-beware-uber-storms-the-arena-of-ride-sharing/


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## PixieScott

john djjjoe said:


> You have no right to set your own rates or do things your way when doing trips with Uber. This is because you explicitly give that right up in order to use the Uber app. If you do not give those rights up, Uber does not agree to find you a customer. As an employee, the business cares about you generally. In this context you as an individual are simply not relevant.
> 
> You as an IC have every right not to use Uber. You are only being taken advantage of because you are allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. Presumably that is because Uber is the least bad option you have, or you could be a masocist. Either way, the reason is irrelevant.
> 
> I'm not going to argue over what constitutes *fair* because we both know how that will play out.
> 
> If you feel strongly enough about this I encourage you to develop an app-based dispatch service and grow the business and put Uber and Lyft both out of business. If you want to be tipped, just use Lyft. If you want to work for a black car base just go do that. If you hate the system call your politician. If none of the above work out for you, go start a riot. Just don't blame Uber for the situation. The only reason Uber is becoming a target is that Uber is providing you with the best alternative you have and so it becomes an easy target because it's a pain in the ass to go after everyone else and it's easy to demonize a big bad evil corporation.


You'd be surprised how many people struggle with this concept. Expecting consumers to tip in Uber serves no purpose ( since rating takes care of service evaluation ) apart from subsidizing the payout which is Uber's responsibility and not the passenger's. In fact, not accepting/expecting tips might actually accelerate people in not driving as they realize the true payout, which if it happens in a large enough number would finally motivate Uber to offer better rates. I don't mind paying a higher fare but I do mind being expected to tip as that lets Uber off the hook and we continue to prop the artificial economy around the ride.


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## john djjjoe

Djc said:


> I was just browsing through this thread as it came up in new posts and john djjjoe who are you really? You seem to have much more knowledge than a CSR. CSRs are not in the room for series A pitches they also don't care about investors. I agree with people who complain about uber pay/tips only have themselves to blame but many drivers are not educated enough to know that some of these mileage rates are making them work for less than $5hr after gas/maintenance not even car depreciation/mileage is factored into that yet which if you need money now you may not care about that in the now. I think in only a few cities is uber not taking advantage of their partners lack of knowledge or desperation. That is not cool. Yes its supposed to be part time work but uber needs some full time drivers to provide supply during the day while most are at work or late at night (excluding weekends) or the whole concept wouldnt work as customers would not get rides at these times or would be waiting 10+ mins not 3. If uber was more ethical they would hire some drivers full time to meet that supply at the proper legal rates then let everyone else work part time on their own schedule and be honest about potential earnings part time and that they should have another job on sign up. My question to you is if uber partners form a union what will uber do then? Every company hates unions and self driving cars are a few years off. What if government caps driver pool in relation to ability to earn living wage or forces higher licensing that people avcepting botyom of the barrel rates can no longer meet or afford to meet? Also if IC vs W-2 lawsuit fails (which I think it will) I'm sure other suits and government intervention will come and cause large financial costs so why not treat drivers properly pay them right and everyone wins. UberX as a service on passenger side has been decreasing in past year as rates have been cut and uber % has increased.


I moved around a bit over time. At that point/before leading I was managing CSRs to meet business development goals. Unsurprisingly they were and are the weakest link in the chain.

At this point because reclassifying drivers would kill the valuation and nobody wants that. Odds are Uber can win in court and if not ideally the IPO has happened before it gets there. People invested want their money out.


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## john djjjoe

chi1cabby said:


> It's obvious that you're a liar!
> Uber Series A funding took place in Feb 2011. At that time Uber service comprised of UberBLACK & UberTaxi only. UberX ride-sharing wasn't even a notion in TravisK's head at that time.
> https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/uber/funding-rounds
> 
> UberX was started as reaction to Lyft & Sidecar in 2nd half of 2012:
> http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/12/lyft-and-sidecar-beware-uber-storms-the-arena-of-ride-sharing/


I made reference to being there to establish a rough timeline re: the time at which I got involved with business development. That said, it may surprise you that 1) those reports are often not correct/misconstrue events and 2) executives often don't tell their real story to investors, they tell the story they know investors want to hear.

Either way I prefer you think I'm a liar as most everything you write is a waste of time and it would be nice for you not to pop up in my alerts feed.


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## john djjjoe

PixieScott said:


> You'd be surprised how many people struggle with this concept. Expecting consumers to tip in Uber serves no purpose ( since rating takes care of service evaluation ) apart from subsidizing the payout which is Uber's responsibility and not the passenger's. In fact, not accepting/expecting tips might actually accelerate people in not driving as they realize the true payout, which if it happens in a large enough number would finally motivate Uber to offer better rates. I don't mind paying a higher fare but I do mind being expected to tip as that lets Uber off the hook and we continue to prop the artificial economy around the ride.


Tipping is the most inefficient anti market practice that exists. Full stop.


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## Sly

Tipping wouldn't be necessary if the fare actually paid the cost of the trip. These short trips will bankrupt you, the driver.


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## john djjjoe

Sly said:


> Tipping wouldn't be necessary if the fare actually paid the cost of the trip. These short trips will bankrupt you, the driver.


You clearly aren't keeping up with the thread, if you post again with a relevant comment I will answer but this comment does not address what we are talking about at this point.


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## sicky

john djjjoe said:


> The only reason Uber is becoming a target is that Uber is providing you with the best alternative you have and so it becomes an easy target because it's a pain in the ass to go after everyone else and it's easy to demonize a big bad evil corporation.


I agree with you on this. I target Uber, Walmart, McDonalds, etc because they constitute some of our nation's largest employers. I dislike that they have taken industries which paid middle class wages and turned them into industries paying starvation wages. As a middle class taxpayer, I also dislike having to subsidize these companies' employees because they won't pay enough for their employees to pay for basic necessities such as food and housing. At heart, it is a combination of insatiable greed and our political system that is at fault. These large corporations own our politicians, so all we can do is complain.

Ok, just a couple questions for you John. I just want to get an insider's knowledge and will not argue with you (promise!). When Uber decides to lower rates, are the drivers' incomes even discussed and/or calculated by Uber? I don't mean the fictitious calculations advertised to the public, I mean real net pay after expenses. Also, Does Uber plan on continuing to lower rates until they find an equilibrium for the number of drivers they need? Lastly, does Uber care about the quality of drivers? I have had many riders state that they are unhappy with Uber because drivers increasingly cannot speak english and are largely uneducated. This was not the case when rates were higher. Of course, nobody seems to mind when Walmart employees cannot speak english because they are getting dirt cheap pricing...


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## Red

Uber: Wallmart of transportation. Amen.


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## chi1cabby

john djjjoe said:


> I made reference to being there to establish a rough timeline re: the time at which I got involved with business development.


No that's a misrepresentation of what you actually said:


john djjjoe said:


> As someone who was in the room for the Series A pitch I can tell you that you are wrong.


And as for this:


john djjjoe said:


> That said, it may surprise you that 1) those reports are often not correct/misconstrue events and 2) executives often don't tell their real story to investors, they tell the story they know investors want to hear.


Not when the real story is well established by Policy Papers authored by the CEO himself:
*http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/12/lyft-and-sidecar-beware-uber-storms-the-arena-of-ride-sharing/*
_"Uber founder Travis Kalanick takes the gladiator approach to entrepreneurship. Today in a blog post, he declared his intention to roll out ride-sharing on the existing Uber platform, posing a direct threat to companies like Lyftand SideCar that operate on a community ride-sharing model.

*With this "Policy White Paper 1.0," Kalanick stated *that while at first Uber refrained from participating in ride-sharing due to regulatory risk, the "ambiguity" has encouraged him to implement ride-sharing as part of the app in "any market where the regulators have given tacit approval."_


john djjjoe said:


> Either way I prefer you think I'm a liar as most everything you write is a waste of time and it would be nice for you not to pop up in my alerts feed.


I wouldn't expect anything else from an individual who lies on the forum in order to sound important & boast to the Drivers.


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## sicky

Red said:


> Uber: Wallmart of transportation. Amen.


I think Uber would take that as a compliment.


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## Sly

How can drivers, who barely speak English, maintain a higher than 4.6 rating? As a customer I would give them a 1 simply for not being able to understand me.


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## john djjjoe

chi1cabby said:


> No that's a misrepresentation of what you actually said:
> 
> And as for this:
> 
> Not when the real story is well established by Policy Papers authored by the CEO himself:
> *http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/12/lyft-and-sidecar-beware-uber-storms-the-arena-of-ride-sharing/*
> _"Uber founder Travis Kalanick takes the gladiator approach to entrepreneurship. Today in a blog post, he declared his intention to roll out ride-sharing on the existing Uber platform, posing a direct threat to companies like Lyftand SideCar that operate on a community ride-sharing model.
> 
> *With this "Policy White Paper 1.0," Kalanick stated *that while at first Uber refrained from participating in ride-sharing due to regulatory risk, the "ambiguity" has encouraged him to implement ride-sharing as part of the app in "any market where the regulators have given tacit approval."_
> 
> I wouldn't expect anything else from an individual who lies on the forum in order to sound important & boast to the Drivers.


Yes in between playing bogeyman. Reread what I wrote. Not rewriting things because you're slow.



sicky said:


> I think Uber would take that as a compliment.


Probably. Walmart has scale.



Sly said:


> How can drivers, who barely speak English, maintain a higher than 4.6 rating? As a customer I would give them a 1 simply for not being able to understand me.


You're supposed to be weeded out and deactivated


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## Actionjax

Once again thanks for swinging by. Always entertaining. I think for most who have been living under a rock this might come to most as a surprise. Uber is not your employer and cares to make you happy enough to make them money. Your personal problems are not theirs. Stop trying to make them care about you.


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## Older Chauffeur

john djjjoe said:


> As someone who was in the room for the Series A pitch I can tell you that you are wrong. From the start the concept was matching people who had empty cars and free time with people who wanted rides and putting them together. It was not anticipated how many people were underemployed for a lack of initiative and would jump at an opportunity thrust into their arms. That caught everyone by surprise.
> 
> Your wanting it to be a full time job doesn't mean it was intended to be a full time job. If it was intended to produce sufficient revenue to employ people profitably the entire company would have been structured differently and concepts like Uber Eats/Uber Rush wouldn't have been roadmapped out.


I have no axe to grind here, but if it was not intended to be a full time job, why was it advertised as an opportunity to make $90K per year? Just wondering. I made that kind of money as an executive driver more than fifteen years ago, but the job was full time with lots of overtime built in.


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## Santa

Sly said:


> How can drivers, who barely speak English, maintain a higher than 4.6 rating? As a customer I would give them a 1 simply for not being able to understand me.


It's the attitude that you have with your PAX that adds up to your rating or subtracts from your rating. Although I know some PAX are some aholes with the rating.

Frankly your attitude of giving someone a 1* who takes you safely to your destination, sucks.


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## Dar-K

Sly said:


> How can drivers, who barely speak English, maintain a higher than 4.6 rating? As a customer I would give them a 1 simply for not being able to understand me.


... I am sometimes under the belief that everyone rates what they rate regardless of the drive unless something of an issue arrives... Like the driver offends them in some way, etc. If the passenger can forget your ride, you should be deserving of the 5*. The driver's who don't speak English, probably provide a quiet ride.. Which, maybe a majority of riders want that. 
I'd be frustrated however, if trying to inform them where to go was an issue with the language barriers.

I had a PAX once telling me how a foreign driver, who spoke English probably well, had a low rating... The PAX, who must of somewhat had an idea about the rating system saw that their rating was low (like super-low to the point I didn't believe the guy) and he asked the driver about it and the driver responded... "Surge... All those surge rides hurt my rating.." 
But the PAX said he was like 3.5 or some crazyyy #. If that was any bit true, I doubt the driver is driving anymore.


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## john djjjoe

Santa said:


> It's the attitude that you have with your PAX that adds up to your rating or subtracts from your rating. Although I know some PAX are some aholes with the rating.
> 
> Frankly your attitude of giving someone a 1* who takes you safely to your destination, sucks.


Stars are a carrot not a stick. If they don't safely get me to their destination much worse things happen than 1*


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## ColdRider

john djjjoe said:


> Honestly when I saw this I was going to just ignore it as a dumb/repeat question but I'll address it once because I don't think I've ever seen the right answer written out explicitly. I hope this post becomes a reference for answering this question.
> 
> You're not supposed to take ****ing tips. Uber's brand involves a seamless process where cash is not involved. That is not all of it, but it is important. Far more so than you giving out water bottles, mints, holding the door open, or any other shit you do to try and guilt the customer giving you one. Uber's brand is about providing a consistent, seamless experience to the rider. That is why even though you are classed as an IC you are not allowed to set your own fares. When you impose on the rider for a tip or make them root around for cash or feel like they should have it on them you are breaking the flow of what the ride is supposed to be.
> 
> At one point some drivers may have been deactivated for accepting tips when they were offered. You were NEVER supposed to accept tips. As an IC your agreement is to accept the pay rate offered or not to take the job. It is, unfortunately, impossible to monitor what you are doing or whether you are taking cash tips and so they cannot be precluded. Credit card based tips can easily though, and are, by the company not putting in a tip box. Because tipping should not be a thing here.
> 
> If you want to go set your own rates, please do so. If you want to go accept tips, enjoy that. That said, if you do either of these things you are not welcome to continue as a partner. Uber's services to you are provided based on your accepting certain guidelines. Not taking tips is a part of those guidelines. I don't understand the jackasses on here who complain that because it is *their* business they can do *whatever* they want while ignoring the reality that they are only bound by these guidelines becuase they agreed to them. Uber does NOT have a monopoly- if you want tips go slap a pink moustache on your car or work for a black car service or any one of a million other dispatch methods. You do NOT have the right to use Uber's service to make it easier to find customers and then spit on Uber's brand. Get off your high horses.
> 
> To be clear, the negative attitude in this post is aimed at those who **** about not being allowed to accept tips and who do so anyway, not at you Mshad.
> 
> I hope this answers your question.


By far the best post in this thread.


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## Fuzzyelvis

Sly said:


> How can drivers, who barely speak English, maintain a higher than 4.6 rating? As a customer I would give them a 1 simply for not being able to understand me.


They shouldn't really need to if you're at the pin and correctly entered your destination.


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## SurgeMasterMN

bringing it back to the top


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## Rakos

SurgeMasterMN said:


> bringing it back to the top


Thank you...!!!

I've been at this since Sept '14...

This is the first time I've ever seen this...8>)

Thanks again...will take a while to read all...

Rakos


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## goneubering

john djjjoe said:


> Honestly, you probably aren't far off. This is one of the few situations I wouldn't be surprised if she got banned but we don't have anything to stop her making a new account. As drivers you are a commodity, we don't need to respect you (regardless of whether this is right or wrong).
> 
> Policy dictates that the base can reactivate at its discretion however more than likely it's not happening. If anything was to happen to cause you to be deactivated whoever reauthorized the reactivation (base management especially) would be on the chopping block and they know that. In short, it's not worth the (personal) risk to them to reactivate you.
> 
> If you PM me details of your situation I can give a more detailed and relevant answer but based on how this is generally done if you stop making payments you will be taken to court and/or the car will be repoed by the party providing financing. It is EXTREMELY important to the firm that we don't provide you with cars, we don't own cars, and we don't provide financing for cars (although we may help you find firms that will provide and finance cars). You are accountable to them. As far as we're concerned, you can have it crushed in a recycling yard and not take a hit but you'll be held responsible just as if you defaulted on a regular car payments (unless there are special circumstances/you purchased through an LLC, etc...)
> 
> Uber will never publicly comment on anything unless someone else commented on it publicly first and even then we will be extremely extremely brief. The risk/reward to the firm (potential admissions that would expose the company, being accused of defamation or inaccuracy, etc...) is skewed such that we never want to open our mouths.
> 
> I'm trying to do the opposite (I started as a first-gen CSR in SF) so please be clear and let me know if there is anything you would like me to discuss or say which I am not. I asked that question to ensure I understood its meaning and would be responding in an appropriate manner.


Wow.


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## Red

Can't agree. At the time it was a real eye-opener because most of the drivers were still under impression that S.H.I.T.S. do give a poop about them like they were saying they do This guy stated loud and clear - we are a temporary commodity until they figure out how to do without us and our well being is not even on the list of their concerns


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