# Manual (non-auto) Ford Focus 2012 -



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Anyone had any experience with manual transmission 5 speed Ford Focus, the models from 2012 onwards? The disaster of Ford's Powershift auto transmissions killed the Focus' resale values for both cars with auto and manual transmissions, even though the manuals were not affected. A 2012 or 2013 manual Focus with fewer than 100k miles can be picked up for around 4 grand. Bargain. They won't be Toyota reliable, but what are owners' experiences with them?

In my country nearly everyone owns a manual transmission car, but I have never owned one in the USA. How difficult is it to resell a manual car here?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Anyone had any experience with manual transmission 5 speed Ford Focus, the models from 2012 onwards? The disaster of Ford's Powershift auto transmissions killed the Focus' resale values for both cars with auto and manual transmissions, even though the manuals were not affected. A 2012 or 2013 manual Focus with fewer than 100k miles can be picked up for around 4 grand. Bargain. They won't be Toyota reliable, but what are owners' experiences with them?
> 
> In my country nearly everyone owns a manual transmission car, but I have never owned one in the USA. How difficult is it to resell a manual car here?


I owned a 2005 Ford Focus. My SO had a 2011 I think it was.

I will never buy a Ford again except maybe a truck. And I wouldn't give you anywhere near $4000 for a 2012 or 2013 manual or otherwise, regardless of miles.

Lots of things went out way before I'd expect. Transmission on the 2005 at 60,000 miles, major engine issues at 120,000 which actually caused a wreck, and other repairs before 100,000 miles like alternator, starter, other crap I don't remember.

The 2011 had issues too. I just don't remember the details as I didn't drive it. I do know when he got rid of it it had been in the shop multiple times.

They were automatics and I know 2005 is way earlier but that doesn't affect all the other crap that went wrong. I just had a bad experience with two cars of that model. Just throwing it out there.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I owned a 2005 Ford Focus. My SO had a 2011 I think it was.
> 
> I will never buy a Ford again except maybe a truck. And I wouldn't give you anywhere near $4000 for a 2012 or 2013 manual or otherwise, regardless of miles.
> 
> ...


Were they automatic or manual?


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Were they automatic or manual?


I just edited before you asked. Read original again.

As I said tho, transmission was not the only problem. And when it was it was the 2005 anyway. Just had too many problems in general.


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## Muhammad D (Apr 26, 2020)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Anyone had any experience with manual transmission 5 speed Ford Focus, the models from 2012 onwards? The disaster of Ford's Powershift auto transmissions killed the Focus' resale values for both cars with auto and manual transmissions, even though the manuals were not affected. A 2012 or 2013 manual Focus with fewer than 100k miles can be picked up for around 4 grand. Bargain. They won't be Toyota reliable, but what are owners' experiences with them?
> 
> In my country nearly everyone owns a manual transmission car, but I have never owned one in the USA. How difficult is it to resell a manual car here?


"Toyota-reliable" As a Toyota fan, I loved that term &#128513;


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

There's a reason their $4000. And it's not reliability


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Muhammad D said:


> "Toyota-reliable" As a Toyota fan, I loved that term &#128513;


That's the benchmark.



islanddriver said:


> There's a reason their $4000. And it's not reliability


So what is it in your opinion?


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> That's the benchmark.
> 
> 
> So what is it in your opinion?


Lot of problems


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I owned a 2005 Ford Focus. My SO had a 2011 I think it was.
> 
> I will never buy a Ford again except maybe a truck. And I wouldn't give you anywhere near $4000 for a 2012 or 2013 manual or otherwise, regardless of miles.
> 
> ...


My sister just replaced ford focus transmission at 70k miles too.

There are many on here that defend Ford cars but they aren't reliable. Imho small afford cars should be a coin flip between Toyota and Honda.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> My sister just replaced ford focus transmission at 70k miles too.
> 
> There are many on here that defend Ford cars but they aren't reliable. Imho small afford cars should be a coin flip between Toyota and Honda.


Mazdas are good


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

islanddriver said:


> Mazdas are good


Expensive to repair has always been Mazda's quirk. At least thats what I hear, never owned one first hand.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Expensive to repair has always been Mazda's quirk. At least thats what I hear, never owned one first hand.


Never found it more expensive than any other car. Now I've had friend with Toyota they say expensive. I've own Honda's now they want a lot to repair them


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> My sister just replaced ford focus transmission at 70k miles too.
> 
> There are many on here that defend Ford cars but they aren't reliable. Imho small afford cars should be a coin flip between Toyota and Honda.


I used to work for a major autowrecker. I'm talking about we scrapped 30K cars a month.

Fords biggest problems were transmissions across all types of vehicles including some trucks and heads.

We got a lot of nice looking Fords. Toyota and Honda not so much unless they were wrecked.


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## Muhammad D (Apr 26, 2020)

islanddriver said:


> Mazdas are good


So good that last Toyota sold more Rav4s than Mazda's entire lineup.They may be good but not durable. Most consumers like cars that last long.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Anyone had any experience with manual transmission 5 speed Ford Focus, the models from 2012 onwards? The disaster of Ford's Powershift auto transmissions killed the Focus' resale values for both cars with auto and manual transmissions, even though the manuals were not affected. A 2012 or 2013 manual Focus with fewer than 100k miles can be picked up for around 4 grand. Bargain. They won't be Toyota reliable, but what are owners' experiences with them?
> 
> In my country nearly everyone owns a manual transmission car, but I have never owned one in the USA. How difficult is it to resell a manual car here?


Manuals always sell for less unless you are selling it to someone that thinks they are a street racer.

Reason being most people see manual and skip it because here in the great old USofA where "freedom and rights" trumps "knowledge and responsibility" most folks never learned something as 'complex' as shifting. 
I will take a double clutch truck over automagic every day. But that is semis.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Anyone had any experience with manual transmission 5 speed Ford Focus, the models from 2012 onwards? The disaster of Ford's Powershift auto transmissions killed the Focus' resale values for both cars with auto and manual transmissions, even though the manuals were not affected. A 2012 or 2013 manual Focus with fewer than 100k miles can be picked up for around 4 grand. Bargain. They won't be Toyota reliable, but what are owners' experiences with them?
> 
> In my country nearly everyone owns a manual transmission car, but I have never owned one in the USA. How difficult is it to resell a manual car here?


I've owned two here. Sold one to a relative, so I guess that doesn't count for much. The other I still own, and plan to do so for a while, hopefully till it's only worth scrap value.

$4k doesn't seem cheap to me for an 8 year old small car with almost 100k miles on it. Is it just me, or do Americans overprice used vehicles compared to the UK?


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Imho small afford cars should be a coin flip between Toyota and Honda.


They make good cars. I can't knock the quality. I'm just not willing to pay the premium for the quality. I'd rather pay half the price for a car that will give me half the life.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> $4k doesn't seem cheap to me for an 8 year old small car with almost 100k miles on it. Is it just me, or do Americans overprice used vehicles compared to the UK?


Very much so. Used cars here are extremely expensive compared with Europe. Over there you can still buy a decent car in good condition without intergalactic mileage or body panels all different colours for 500 quid.

Were the Focuses (Foci?) that you had/have automatics"


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Were the Focuses (Foci?) that you had/have automatics"


Oh, didn't mean focuses. Meant I'd owned two manuals here.

If it were me, I'd probably just shell out more and get a close to new manual Versa or Mirage for around $10k. Something like these:


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

My Corolla is a 5 speed manual. I bought it despite being manual, not because of it. If I could flip a switch and make it an automatic, I would. When I tried to do ride-share in SF the clutch would overheat and chatter after 2-3 hours. I don't regret buying it, but I will avoid manuals in the future. And a manual Ford? Pfft.

I got a good (but not great) deal, which is why I decided to buy. Unless your idea of a "bargain" is less than wholesale blue, I wouldn't do it.

The only people who should get a manual transmission are folks who LOVE driving a stick-shift. As of 2019, there are now more electric cars sold than cars with manuals.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> Oh, didn't mean focuses. Meant I'd owned two manuals here.
> 
> If it were me, I'd probably just shell out more and get a close to new manual Versa or Mirage for around $10k. Something like these:
> 
> View attachment 467302


Nissan used to be great cars but then they were taken over by Renault, which meant that their reliability went down the toilet. Same thing happened with Mitsubishi after they started collaborating with Chrysler and Renault.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Nissan used to be great cars but then they were taken over by Renault, which meant that their reliability went down the toilet. Same thing happened with Mitsubishi after they started collaborating with Chrysler and Renault.


I'm not so familiar, so I won't dispute that. But even going with Ford, I think something like this, almost brand new, is a better bet for $5.5k more, than a seven year old car approaching 100k miles.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Recent model Fiestas are notorious for automatic transmission issues. I would avoid that like the plague unless it is a manual. I got myself a used car to replace my 2004 Hyundai Accent last year. I was considering getting a Fiesta until I started reading all the horror stories of low-mileage transmission failures.

I ended up getting a 2017 Mitsubishi Mirage, 5-speed manual. I like it so far, but we'll see how it pans out in terms of reliability. I love the gas mileage. I've been tracking mileage since I got it, and I get about 40 mpg driving around town. Close to 45 mpg Interstate driving. That's pretty darn good for a conventional engine.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> Recent model Fiestas are notorious for automatic transmission issues.


Yes, as mentioned above, Ford has had serious problems since 2012 with their Powershift dual clutch auto transmissions. A while ago I hired a Focus automatic to see if they were that bad. The car I rented was a year old with around 30k miles on it and it did already show some of the known problems.

Ford has been unable to design a fix for the issues; it looks like they think it's easier to soldier on and pay the class action settlements and repair bills.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

reg barclay said:


> I've owned two here. Sold one to a relative, so I guess that doesn't count for much. The other I still own, and plan to do so for a while, hopefully till it's only worth scrap value.
> 
> $4k doesn't seem cheap to me for an 8 year old small car with almost 100k miles on it. Is it just me, or do Americans overprice used vehicles compared to the UK?


I don't know. I'm British, but been here since I was a teenager and when i see prices of new cars in the UK and what my uncle paid for one they're way more expensive than here. I can tell you many Americans here don't take very good care of their vehicles compared with many other countries, especially Europe. My SO used to work at Carmax and when foreigners came in looking at the cars they would ask for the service records. They never had them.and thought it hilarious anyone would expect that. So it makes no sense cars would be more expensive new in the UK, but cheaper used.

My 2005 Ford Focus was totalled in 2012 and had about 126,000 miles on it. Looks wise it was fine, interior looked new. Insurance gave me almost $6000 for it, which i thought was WAY more than i could have sold it for. I didn't argue. I would never have paid that much for that car, though. I paid a bit over $13,000 for it new in 2005. Made no sense to me, but who am i to argue with State Farm if they want to pay that much??? LOL


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I don't know. I'm British, but been here since I was a teenager and when i see prices of new cars in the UK and what my uncle paid for one they're way more expensive than here. I can tell you many Americans here don't take very good care of their vehicles compared with many other countries, especially Europe. My SO used to work at Carmax and when foreigners came in looking at the cars they would ask for the service records. They never had them.and thought it hilarious anyone would expect that. So it makes no sense cars would be more expensive new in the UK, but cheaper used.
> 
> My 2005 Ford Focus was totalled in 2012 and had about 126,000 miles on it. Looks wise it was fine, interior looked new. Insurance gave me almost $6000 for it, which i thought was WAY more than i could have sold it for. I didn't argue. I would never have paid that much for that car, though. I paid a bit over $13,000 for it new in 2005. Made no sense to me, but who am i to argue with State Farm if they want to pay that much??? LOL


In the UK people do take much better care of their cars. This car is for sale in the UK at the moment on Autotrader. It's a 1998 Nissan Primera (same as Infiniti G20) and is for sale with 24,000 miles on it for 600 quid ($750)










You couldn't easily find a 1998 car in the US that wasn't totally trashed, and you couldn't buy any car worth driving for $750.

I think supply and demand has something to do with it. In the UK people have to spend money to maintain and care for their cars to get them through the annual MoT test. Maybe it's for that reason that they take care of them better. There are definitely more used cars available for sale in the UK vs US. If you want a cheap used car in the UK there's a huge choice. Here, it's slim pickings.

One factor definitely affecting the supply of used cars available is crash statistics. Obviously, the more cars that are crashed and totalled, the fewer older cars cars there are available. There are no statistics available to compare numbers of cars totalled between US and UK, but the number of deaths per million miles is available for both countries. The number of deaths per million miles driven in the US is double that of the UK. While that's deaths, not crashes, that's going to be closely correlated to the number cars removed from the roads in those crashes. Part of this is undoubtedly due to the generally exceptionally low driving standards in the US compared with northern Europe. It's the same with motorcycles - in the UK finding an older, uncrashed bike in excellent condition is very easy. Here, they're like hens' teeth. The driving and motorcycle riding tests here are just too easy and people don't have to train to a high level of proficiency in order to pass them.

Another factor is that Europeans drive many fewer miles than Americans. The fewer the miles driven per year, the more years cars are going to last.

And yes, insurers here do seem to be generous when buying totalled vehicles. I was recently paid $5,700 for a car worth $2,500. Maybe giving good payouts is cheaper than paying lawyers for lawsuits.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> In the UK people do take much better care of their cars. This car is for sale in the UK at the moment on Autotrader. It's a 1998 Nissan Primera (same as Infiniti G20) and is for sale with 24,000 miles on it for 600 quid ($750)
> 
> View attachment 467528
> 
> ...


I think the average Brit drives fewer miles than Americans. The last vehicle I bought in England was about 10 years old. It had around 40,000 miles, and I paid a little over a grand. Can't imagine finding anything decent for that here. And I think it would be hard to find anything that age with low mileage. Plus, the interior was in pretty good nick.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> I think the average Brit drives fewer miles than Americans. The last vehicle I bought in England was about 10 years old. It had around 40,000 miles, and I paid a little over a grand. Can't imagine finding anything decent for that here. And I think it would be hard to find anything that age with low mileage. Plus, the interior was in pretty good nick.


The flip side of used cars here being crazily expensive here is that once you've paid out for one, the car you buy is going to also be crazily expensive for the person you sell it to. Depreciation is lower. Overall the cost of running a car here is probably cheaper here than it is in the UK, taking into account petrol, depreciation, insurance, registration/road tax and everything else.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

The Gift of Fish said:


> In the UK people do take much better care of their cars. This car is for sale in the UK at the moment on Autotrader. It's a 1998 Nissan Primera (same as Infiniti G20) and is for sale with 24,000 miles on it for 600 quid ($750)
> 
> View attachment 467528
> 
> ...


Yes, drivers here are horrible compared with England. I'm in the Houston area and I've driven a lot of folks here to work or on vacation and they're amazed that I'm not freaked out at the things people do as a matter of course. I once had a couple who was in my car and at two intersections, one a light, one a stop sign, I (in the right lane) had a car to the left of me go around me to turn right.

The first one they were appalled and couldn't believe I just shrugged it off. After the second they were white knuckled the rest of the trip.

For what it's worth you'd be hard pressed to find a '98 with only 24,000 miles anywhere in my area. Even not doing Uber or deliveries I'd have 15,000 at least per year. I think 12,000 is what's expected. So it's hard to compare a 20 year old car between the countries because the equivalent one just won't exist very often. I could find that car and year at that price here, but I'd be hard pressed to find that mileage unless it really was Grandma's go to church car, and chances are that would be a lie and the odometer was rolled back/replaced anyway. That is getting harder to do now with Carfax though.

Cars are definitely treated as "disposable" here compared with many countries, that's for sure. But then so are most things. I keep shoes and clothes much longer than most Americans, too.


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## Uberguyken (May 10, 2020)

My best friend since Highschool Ubers in a 2011 manual... Has put about 30k on it since December but it's holding up like a champ. Has about 125k on it I believe... Taught him the ropes and he's been killing it ever since...


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Overall the cost of running a car here is probably cheaper here than it is in the UK, taking into account petrol, depreciation, insurance, registration/road tax and everything else.


Petrol is definitely cheaper here. I pay about $65/year registration and $50/month insurance. Which also sounds cheaper.

The mentality toward driving there is different and not viewed with the same necessity. My mum has a 15 year old car with less miles than I've driven in 3 years. Half the time she takes the bus or train instead (pre CV obviously). Can't imagine my in laws here taking a bus unless there was no other choice.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> Can't imagine my in laws here taking a bus


Yes, it's cultural. If you admit to anyone here that you take the bus they will assume you're on food stamps.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

I drove a recent Ford Focus (sequential, not manual) for a couple of months and the transmission was not good, but the car itself was decent. I have a Golf from the same era, and while the Golf is my preference, I would probably be pretty happy to drive a manual Ford Focus for the right price.

And that’s saying something, because I already own a similar car that I like more, and I had more than a few quibbles with the car (kind of ugly to my eyes, worse hatchback design than some competitors, slightly less comfortable front seats than a Golf). It’s a nice car to drive, and it’s a reasonably easy and economical car to live with. The sequential transmission would be my only dealbreaker for owning one long-term, as it’s not particularly fast to shift, chooses gears somewhat poorly in automatic mode, and seems to be doomed from a reliability perspective. So a manual transmission one for a low price? Absolutely.

Besides the VW Golf gen 6-7, the past couple of generations of Mazda3 hatch (especially the 2019 redesign, wow), and a few others, it’s the closest you can get to a recently made, practical, fun-to-drive, small, English-style hatchback in the US.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

All automatic transmissions:

I had a 2003 and have a 2007 Focus, and my Mom drives a 2013 Focus.

I think the 03 had around 150K before it got destroyed in an auto accident. My 2007 car is still going strong with 255,000 miles. The 2013 has around 150K miles on it.

The 2003 and 2007 cars were tanks and I've had basically no issues. I did a DIY fix replacing the motor mounts of the 2007 car to stop vibrations, and replaced the secondary air intake to pass smog, no big deal. Replaced a couple of batteries too. I think less than $1000 of replacement parts not counting regular maintenance (tires, oil filters, brakes, etc.)

My Mom's 2013 car went back to the factory for some warranty work and the transmission sounds bad but it works. The electronics in the door and the trunk have issues. The ABS and traction control are terrible and the traction control turns itself back on if you drive over 25 mph even when you manually disable it, making her car useless on ice covered roads. I also recently changed out a small part for her car, can't remember what it was but it had to do with vapor pressure in the fuel tank, but it was a cheap fix.

The tax implications of selling a rideshare car are no good if you use the standard mileage deduction and it is a cheap car to drive like the Focus. Based on my calculations, I will be giving my 2007 car away next year for free because otherwise I will owe more in taxes from any sale than I'm likely to make on it. If you saved more in the standard mileage deduction than what you sold the car for, I think you owe that money back. I doubt a manual transmission car sells great but there are still dedicated manual fans out there. But again, dealer trade-in or gifting seem to be the only tax-sensible options in my mind for a rideshare car.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> For what it's worth you'd be hard pressed to find a '98 with only 24,000 miles anywhere in my area.


Yes, that's what I mean - cars don't survive like that here.

It's likely to be a part of why new cars are cheaper here. Used cars have a much shorter life cycle here and they have to be replaced with new, which keeps new car sales volumes high. Higher volumes = lower prices. Then those cars become more scarce as they age due to the short lifespan of used cars, meaning higher used car prices.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Trafficat said:


> I doubt a manual transmission car sells great but there are still dedicated manual fans out there.


There is obviously less demand, but less supply as well. So I'm not convinced it's that hard. I know someone who traded one a few years ago and got a decent deal.



Trafficat said:


> But again, dealer trade-in or gifting seem to be the only tax-sensible options in my mind for a rideshare car.


Here in NY there's a 9% sales tax on cars. The trade deduction doesn't get taxed. Which can be an incentive to trade instead of selling.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

@Trafficat reminded me: the latest Focus sold in the US had a really bad time with traction and stability control on ice and snow. I don't know how much of it exactly was the exact tires on the car, but it was just really bad. It came in too late to fix traction or cornering issues, and it came in too early to gain traction while starting. I tested with a VW Golf in identical conditions on the same roads on the same day with slightly more expensive, but stock all-season tires, and it was substantially better.

I thought it was all a problem with the tires on the Focus, but with all cars on all-seasons in Colorado ice and snow, the traction control is simply way worse than that on the VW Golf and previous generation Subaru Impreza (and surprisingly, even the Chevy Cruze).

I might have liked the car more with a manual transmission in those conditions, but I can't recommend its traction or stability control if you live in a snowy climate. If I owned one, I would probably just turn off traction control in the snow, as I know how to drive safely with it off.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> it's the closest you can get to a recently made, practical, fun-to-drive, small, English-style hatchback in the US.


Gear lever's still on the wrong side, though. I don't think I'd ever get used to that.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Gear lever's still on the wrong side, though. I don't think I'd ever get used to that.


I dunno. I've driven a manual transmission in Great Britain with it on the "correct" side that I'm not at all used to. I adapted within 10 miles of driving it. I don't think it makes a difference for me, as even without the muscle memory, manual transmission is something I am ambidextrous with (and I am not ambidextrous whatsoever).

I had more reorientation to do with road rules than with the gear lever.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

waldowainthrop said:


> @Trafficat reminded me: the latest Focus sold in the US had a really bad time with traction and stability control on ice and snow. I don't know how much of it exactly was the exact tires on the car, but it was just really bad. It came in too late to fix traction or cornering issues, and it came in too early to gain traction while starting. I tested with a VW Golf in identical conditions on the same roads on the same day with slightly more expensive, but stock all-season tires, and it was substantially better.
> 
> I thought it was all a problem with the tires on the Focus, but with all cars on all-seasons in Colorado ice and snow, the traction control is simply way worse than that on the VW Golf and previous generation Subaru Impreza (and surprisingly, even the Chevy Cruze).
> 
> I might have liked the car more with a manual transmission in those conditions, but I can't recommend its traction or stability control if you live in a snowy climate. If I owned one, I would probably just turn off traction control in the snow, as I know how to drive safely with it off.


Let me put it this way... My 2007 Ford Focus, which lacks ABS or traction control, running tires with such shallow treads as to be illegal, is night and day better than the 2013 Ford Focus will legal tread depth all season tires on snow and ice.

I crossed the same ice covered hill a couple times on one day in my '07 car, then I was sent on a mission to drive my Mom's 2013 car home, and I got her car stuck on that hill. I then drove over the same hill one more time with my 2007 car an hour later.

The traction control is an abomination.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> The traction control is an abomination.


I totally agree. I couldn't believe how night-and-day the difference was between similar cars that cost a similar amount of money. The Golf has a really natural traction control that plays well with the manual transmission and barely makes itself noticed. It's actually nearly as easy to drive at low speeds on ice and snow as an all-wheel-drive Impreza, and surprisingly has a less sudden (and therefore safer) stability control in corners at the limits of traction. Yes, I've thrown all of these cars into icey corners.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

waldowainthrop said:


> I dunno. I've driven a manual transmission in Great Britain with it on the "correct" side that I'm not at all used to. I adapted within 10 miles of driving it. I don't think it makes a difference for me, as even without the muscle memory, manual transmission is something I am ambidextrous with (and I am not ambidextrous whatsoever).


When I travel to the UK, my instinct for the first day or two is to reach down to the driver side door when I start driving. After that I get used to it. Then same thing when I return.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

reg barclay said:


> When I travel to the UK, my instinct for the first day or two is to reach down to the driver side door when I start driving. After that I get used to it. Then same thing when I return.


One of my only problems is going to the wrong side of the outside of the car when getting in, if I've spent a few days in the other country. That one takes a week of getting past.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

waldowainthrop said:


> I totally agree. I couldn't believe how night-and-day the difference was between similar cars that cost a similar amount of money. The Golf has a really natural traction control that plays well with the manual transmission and barely makes itself noticed. It's actually nearly as easy to drive at low speeds on ice and snow as an all-wheel-drive Impreza, and surprisingly has a less sudden (and therefore safer) stability control in corners at the limits of traction. Yes, I've thrown all of these cars into icey corners.


My 2007 Ford Focus, Front Wheel Drive, with all season tires, handles better than my Dad's 2012 Toyota Tacoma in 4 Wheel Drive mode with all season tires.... assuming that the snow is not taller than the bumper on the Ford. Of course, get the Ford stuck and it will require the shovel whereas the 4 Wheel Drive pickup is a lot easier to get unstuck.



waldowainthrop said:


> One of my only problems is going to the wrong side of the outside of the car when getting in, if I've spent a few days in the other country. That one takes a week of getting past.


That's one thing I hate with newer cars. In my 2003 car it had a key hole on both the right and left side. I'd just unlock the door closest to the curb and scoot into the driver seat. With all newer cars they ONLY have a keyhole on the driver side. It really sucks.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> I dunno. I've driven a manual transmission in Great Britain with it on the "correct" side that I'm not at all used to. I adapted within 10 miles of driving it. I don't think it makes a difference for me, as even without the muscle memory, manual transmission is something I am ambidextrous with (and I am not ambidextrous whatsoever).
> 
> I had more reorientation to do with road rules than with the gear lever.


More than adapting to using a different hand (I'm right-handed, so changing manual gears here isn't an issue of ambidexterity), it doesn't feel "right" for some reason. I've driven in the States for years, and being on the wrong side of the car to drive also still doesn't feel right, although I can do it no problem. Interestingly, riding a motorcycle here feels as "right" as it does in the UK, most likely due to the symmetry of a motorcycle.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

waldowainthrop said:


> One of my only problems is going to the wrong side of the outside of the car when getting in, if I've spent a few days in the other country. That one takes a week of getting past.


LHD cars are not so uncommon in the UK, since most (all?) other European countries drive on the right. Aside from mail trucks, I've only ever seen one or two RHDs in the US.

I think my parents owned an LHD at some point when I was a kid. But I was too young to remember it. TBH though, I think it would seem weird driving one there, or the opposite in the US.


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## Muhammad D (Apr 26, 2020)

reg barclay said:


> Petrol is definitely cheaper here. I pay about $65/year registration and $50/month insurance. Which also sounds cheaper.
> 
> The mentality toward driving there is different and not viewed with the same necessity. My mum has a 15 year old car with less miles than I've driven in 3 years. Half the time she takes the bus or train instead (pre CV obviously). Can't imagine my in laws here taking a bus unless there was no other choice.


Petrol? You live in the UK?


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Muhammad D said:


> Petrol? You live in the UK?


No, I was born and grew up there, but live in the US. Normally I'd write 'gas' if talking to Americans.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

reg barclay said:


> LHD cars are not so uncommon in the UK, since most (all?) other European countries drive on the right. Aside from mail trucks, I've only ever seen one or two RHDs in the US.
> 
> I think my parents owned an LHD at some point when I was a kid. But I was too young to remember it. TBH though, I think it would seem weird driving one there, or the opposite in the US.


I drove a RHD car when I was working temporarily in Spain. People would stare at it as I drove down the road in it, especially if I was the only one in the car. "Caramba, Manolo, nobody is driving that car!".


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## Muhammad D (Apr 26, 2020)

reg barclay said:


> No, I was born and grew up there, but live in the US. Normally I'd write 'gas' if talking to Americans.


My brother lived in London. He was so happy. After almost 10 years finally he was given permanent visa. We sent him there for a good life. But he passed away last June. London is cold even June. He died because of gas leakage in his room at night. Sad accident.


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

reg barclay said:


> Aside from mail trucks, I've only ever seen one or two RHDs in the US.


My uncle has a RHD. His wife wanted to be a mail carrier, so he found her a RHD to drive. Then after he bought it, she decided that she didn't want to be a mail carrier after all, so he kept it to drive for himself. I've driven it a few times. It feels a little unusual to be sitting in the "passenger" seat while driving, but you get used to it pretty quick. Not a big deal.

It is an automatic. I think I would have a lot more trouble driving a manual RHD. For me, so much of the physical actions of driving are muscle memory that I do without really thinking about it. Yeah, the transmission is manual, but the physical actions of driving it are automatic for me. Any time I drive an automatic, I always have this brief moment of panic when I come to a stop for the first time, go to hit the clutch, and it isn't there.


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## brentb31 (May 23, 2018)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> My sister just replaced ford focus transmission at 70k miles too.
> 
> There are many on here that defend Ford cars but they aren't reliable. Imho small afford cars should be a coin flip between Toyota and Honda.


She might be eligible to get her money back. I had trans go out on my 2014 at about 120K miles. Had used one put in by shop. Got a letter saying I was eligible for refund. I took repair invoice to local dealer and got a check back in about a week for the full repair amount. They even paid for the new brakes and oil change I had done while I was having trans replaced. There is also a recall out for the TCM and shuddering. They will replace the clutch packs free of charge as well.



The Gift of Fish said:


> Yes, as mentioned above, Ford has had serious problems since 2012 with their Powershift dual clutch auto transmissions. A while ago I hired a Focus automatic to see if they were that bad. The car I rented was a year old with around 30k miles on it and it did already show some of the known problems.
> 
> Ford has been unable to design a fix for the issues; it looks like they think it's easier to soldier on and pay the class action settlements and repair bills.


There is now a TCM recall that will fix the chattering, will replace clutch packs as part of recall if car doesn't pass inspection. Every car is eligible for it. Just take to dealer and have them run the VIN.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

brentb31 said:


> There is now a TCM recall that will fix the chattering, will replace clutch packs as part of recall if car doesn't pass inspection. Every car is eligible for it. Just take to dealer and have them run the VIN.


I don't own a Focus. If I do buy one then it'd be a manual, not an automatic. I'd prefer to avoid the hassle of buying something I know will go wrong.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

brentb31 said:


> She might be eligible to get her money back. I had trans go out on my 2014 at about 120K miles. Had used one put in by shop. Got a letter saying I was eligible for refund. I took repair invoice to local dealer and got a check back in about a week for the full repair amount. They even paid for the new brakes and oil change I had done while I was having trans replaced. There is also a recall out for the TCM and shuddering. They will replace the clutch packs free of charge as well.
> 
> 
> There is now a TCM recall that will fix the chattering, will replace clutch packs as part of recall if car doesn't pass inspection. Every car is eligible for it. Just take to dealer and have them run the VIN.


She had a warranty on the car from used dealership. They begrudgingly replaced transmission less than 2 months after sale.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> There are many on here that defend Ford cars but they aren't reliable. Imho small afford cars should be a coin flip between Toyota and Honda.


Toyota is #1 for reliability, but owning one is like owning white goods like a washing machine or a refrigerator. Not interesting at all. A Camry or Corolla is just an appliance for getting you from A to B; it is a totally anodyne experience.

Honda is a little less so.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Toyota is #1 for reliability, but owning one is like owning white goods like a washing machine or a refrigerator. Not interesting at all. A Camry or Corolla is just an appliance for getting you from A to B; it is a totally anodyne experience.
> 
> Honda is a little less so.


Depends, for cars honda has more sporty options. For Crossovers, SUVs, and Trucks Toyota is alot more sporty.

@Muhammad D still waiting to catch his not boring 4Runner on a Covid sale.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Honda has a history of being a more fun brand, but Toyota does currently make the FR-S/86 and the 4Runner, which are a lot more exciting and uniquely capable than anything Honda currently sells.

The sad thing is that the Honda S2000 and the older Acura/Honda NSX are in the past.

I’d probably choose an Accord over a Camry but they’re both pretty dull cars.


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## Muhammad D (Apr 26, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> Honda has a history of being a more fun brand, but Toyota does currently make the FR-S/86 and the 4Runner, which are a lot more exciting and uniquely capable than anything Honda currently sells.
> 
> The sad thing is that the Honda S2000 and the older Acura/Honda NSX are in the past.
> 
> I'd probably choose an Accord over a Camry but they're both pretty dull cars.


Honda's problem is that it doesn't make as many models as Toyota. Honda never made anything to compete with say 4Runners and Landcruisers. They are rich now. Maybe they should make different cars too. They make great Motorcycles and electric generators.



The Gift of Fish said:


> Toyota is #1 for reliability, but owning one is like owning white goods like a washing machine or a refrigerator. Not interesting at all. A Camry or Corolla is just an appliance for getting you from A to B; it is a totally anodyne experience.
> 
> Honda is a little less so.


Reliability/Durability and "Fun-to-driveness" are inversely proportional. Fun cars break &#128513;
The $65,000 Lexus GX460 still has a 4.6 L naturally aspirted port injected V8 and a truck body. It is not fun, but will outlive 5 Turbo BMWs &#128513;


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

I don't really understand how a car can be not fun to drive. I've never driven a vehicle that wasn't fun to drive.


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## Muhammad D (Apr 26, 2020)

Trafficat said:


> I don't really understand how a car can be not fun to drive. I've never driven a vehicle that wasn't fun to drive.


Did you ever drive a Honda Fit or Toyota Yaris? or a tiny Suzuki? &#128513;


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Muhammad D said:


> Did you ever drive a Honda Fit or Toyota Yaris? or a tiny Suzuki? &#128513;


Nope! I would have thought a smaller car would be more maneuverable.


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## Muhammad D (Apr 26, 2020)

Trafficat said:


> Nope! I would have thought a smaller car would be more maneuverable.


You floor them and they barely move, and they are not rock crawlers either &#128513;

Small Suzuki


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Trafficat said:


> I don't really understand how a car can be not fun to drive. I've never driven a vehicle that wasn't fun to drive.


It all depends on your point of reference. Years ago I had an Alfa Romeo Alfasud Sprint, the same as this:










Even though it was only 1.7 litres, it was like a mini Ferrari. The way it looked, the engine noise, the great handling, even the fact that you never knew when it was going to break down next all added to the excitement of driving the car. Driving a Camry or Corolla is, as above, by comparison, just dull.


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## ggrezzi (Mar 14, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> That's the benchmark.
> 
> 
> So what is it in your opinion?


I would add HONDA to the group of highly reliable cars. It is a brand proven to have great cars, nice designs, reliable and powerful engines, great resale value and good on gas.



The Gift of Fish said:


> It all depends on your point of reference. Years ago I had an Alfa Romeo Alfasud Sprint, the same as this:
> 
> View attachment 468436
> 
> ...


I rather drive a dull car than having to spend thousand of $$$ on a mechanic. My favorite brand is BMW. Great cars if you LEASE a new one and drive new cars every 3 years, but to purhase a USED one (even if it is in great shape) it is a risky and COSTLY business. Having said that they are TRULY AMAZING CARS and SUPER FUN to drive!


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

ggrezzi said:


> I rather drive a dull car than having to spend thousand of $$$ on a mechanic.


For rideshare, reliability is more important than interesting/fun.

For a personal car, however, interesting/fun is more important. If I didn't have the skills to fix my cars, though, and had to pay someone else $$$ thousands to fix them then maybe my opinion would be different.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> I don't really understand how a car can be not fun to drive. I've never driven a vehicle that wasn't fun to drive.


1990s Ford Taurus? Terrible steering, muddy brakes, soft suspension. I have driven a decent number of cars and that is one I thought was memorably bad. I hated that car.

As a contrast from the same era: 1991 Honda Civic. Actually fun to drive, if intolerably cheap and raw for most people's tastes.

I don't have particularly refined taste in cars but I can think of a handful that feel awful to drive. My main criteria for "bad to drive" is less responsive controls, poor cornering feel, unpleasant sounds from the engine, and things like that. Bad automatic transmissions also make some cars far less fun to drive (shift timing is the biggest issue, gearing and slowness to shift can be another set of issues).

Now that I think of it, Ford Econlines and GMC vans are absolutely trash experiences to drive, and they probably don't need to be, despite their size and utilitarian nature. Has anyone rented or commercially driven a full-sized American van and enjoyed it? I think they are irredeemably not fun to drive. Trucks like the 4Runner are not bad at all in comparison.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Muhammad D said:


> You floor them and they barely move, and they are not rock crawlers either &#128513;
> 
> Small Suzuki
> 
> View attachment 468435


I have a blue one sitting in my garage. Runs but needs a little work.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Muhammad D said:


> My brother lived in London. He was so happy. After almost 10 years finally he was given permanent visa. We sent him there for a good life. But he passed away last June. London is cold even June. He died because of gas leakage in his room at night. Sad accident.


Sorry to hear about your brother.

Temperatures in England are less extreme than where I live now (NY). Here, winters can get very cold and summers very hot. In England, both are less extreme. I guess it depends where you're from and what you're used to.



Launchpad McQuack said:


> Any time I drive an automatic, I always have this brief moment of panic when I come to a stop for the first time, go to hit the clutch, and it isn't there.


When I drive automatics, it usually takes me about half an hour to stop instinctively wanting to hit an imaginary clutch or change gears.


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## UStaxman (Aug 14, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Yes, as mentioned above, Ford has had serious problems since 2012 with their Powershift dual clutch auto transmissions. A while ago I hired a Focus automatic to see if they were that bad. The car I rented was a year old with around 30k miles on it and it did already show some of the known problems.
> 
> Ford has been unable to design a fix for the issues; it looks like they think it's easier to soldier on and pay the class action settlements and repair bills.


Ford has designed a fix ... to get out of the passenger car market! Most of their cars are being phased out to focus (no pun intended) on SUV's and trucks


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Nissan used to be great cars but then they were taken over by Renault, which meant that their reliability went down the toilet. Same thing happened with Mitsubishi after they started collaborating with Chrysler and Renault.


Nothing wrong with Renault. Last summer I rented a Renault Megane in Europe, it was a great car.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Syn said:


> Nothing wrong with Renault. Last summer I rented a Renault Megane in Europe, it was a great car.


I've also rented a Renault in Europe with no issues. They're fine when they're still relatively new for a nice little jaunt around the countryside on a summer holiday. However, when it comes to reliability and requiring a vehicle that will do thousands of miles per month, month after month, and reach 150,000 or 200,000 or 300,000 miles without major issue, good luck doing that in a Renault, or any French car for that matter.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I've also rented a Renault in Europe with no issues. They're fine when they're still relatively new for a nice little jaunt around the countryside on a summer holiday. However, when it comes to reliability and requiring a vehicle that will do thousands of miles per month, month after month, and reach 150,000 or 200,000 or 300,000 miles without major issue, good luck doing that in a Renault, or any French car for that matter.


Pretty much. In some countries in Europe, many dealers aren't even taking them in as trades. :roflmao:


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

TomTheAnt said:


> Pretty much. In some countries in Europe, many dealers aren't even taking them in as trades. :roflmao:


Europeans don't know how to build reliable cars. I used to own a 1970s Morris Marina; a car that frequently appears on the lists of the worst cars ever built.








It really was terrible, but I actually liked mine. Weirdly, it was so bad that it was good.


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> I've also rented a Renault in Europe with no issues. They're fine when they're still relatively new for a nice little jaunt around the countryside on a summer holiday. However, when it comes to reliability and requiring a vehicle that will do thousands of miles per month, month after month, and reach 150,000 or 200,000 or 300,000 miles without major issue, good luck doing that in a Renault, or any French car for that matter.


This one had 170k km on it. I drove it over 5000 km in 3 weeks without any issue. It was a very good car - much better than any of my American cars at that mileage.



The Gift of Fish said:


> Europeans don't know how to build reliable cars. I used to own a 1970s Morris Marina; a car that frequently appears on the lists of the worst cars ever built.


Mercedes W123 & W124 and Volkswagen Golf Mk2 were probably the most reliable cars ever made. Today's Fiat's MultiJet diesels are probably the most reliable new engines.

This '85 Golf 1.6 diesel lasted me 850k km on original engine ... The last 150k km I didn't even change oil, I just kept adding it. Its still on the road.





Muhammad D said:


> You floor them and they barely move, and they are not rock crawlers either &#128513;


Who knew that you needs thousands of horsepower to hit 35 mph in the city or 55 mph on the highway ... 

I'll bet you anything that my Yaris will get from point A to point B much faster than any more powerful "fun to drive" car. 



ggrezzi said:


> I would add HONDA to the group of highly reliable cars. It is a brand proven to have great cars, nice designs, reliable and powerful engines, great resale value and good on gas.


Honda's automatic transmissions are 2nd least reliable in the industry, behind Ford. 



waldowainthrop said:


> 1990s Ford Taurus? Terrible steering, muddy brakes, soft suspension. I have driven a decent number of cars and that is one I thought was memorably bad. I hated that car.
> 
> As a contrast from the same era: 1991 Honda Civic. Actually fun to drive, if intolerably cheap and raw for most people's tastes.
> 
> ...


You're comparing apples to oranges. Taurus is a big family sedan, of course its gonna be big & heavy & soft & comfortable ... Civic is a much smaller & lighter cheap compact.

Speaking of vans, I had a good experience with both Ford Transit and Ram ProMaster. Both were ok for vans - not fun to drive (there is no such thing as fun to drive when it comes to trucks), but still drove fine. Ford E-Series drove horribly and got horrible gas mileage, which is expected considering how old it is.



TomTheAnt said:


> Pretty much. In some countries in Europe, many dealers aren't even taking them in as trades. :roflmao:


My uncle in Europe drives French cars only. He likes how comfortable they're. He mostly buy a Renault Clios, but is currently driving a Citroen C4. They have issues every now and then, but overall he's very satisfied.

Americans usually think that Renaults are junk based on their models in the late 70s and early 80s when Renault owned AMC. Renault has come the long way since then.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

@Syn I was giving examples of not fun to drive cars. If big cars and trucks are generally less fun to drive, that's just a mark against them. They still serve a role.

Some small cars aren't fun to drive either.


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## Muhammad D (Apr 26, 2020)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Europeans don't know how to build reliable cars. I used to own a 1970s Morris Marina; a car that frequently appears on the lists of the worst cars ever built.
> 
> View attachment 471910
> It really was terrible, but I actually liked mine. Weirdly, it was so bad that it was good.


My father had a Russian Volga. Now that thing was really bad &#128513;


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## z_z_z_ (Aug 17, 2019)

reg barclay said:


> $4k doesn't seem cheap to me for an 8 year old small car with almost 100k miles on it. Is it just me, or do Americans overprice used vehicles compared to the UK?


Yes, Scotty Kilmer talks about this all the time on his Youtube channel.



The Gift of Fish said:


> Anyone had any experience with manual transmission 5 speed Ford Focus, the models from 2012 onwards? The disaster of Ford's Powershift auto transmissions killed the Focus' resale values for both cars with auto and manual transmissions, even though the manuals were not affected. A 2012 or 2013 manual Focus with fewer than 100k miles can be picked up for around 4 grand. Bargain. They won't be Toyota reliable, but what are owners' experiences with them?
> 
> In my country nearly everyone owns a manual transmission car, but I have never owned one in the USA. How difficult is it to resell a manual car here?


You are right that the manuals were not affected, there is another problem with these cars however which is they are early adopters of GDI 
(gasoline direct injection) engines and are likely to develop carbon build-up on the valves at high mileage. This is not a good thing and I would stay away from them. You have to pull apart the top of the engine to clean it off. If you're going for high mileage used cars look for cars with port injection not direct injection. Ford didn't use GDI in the fiesta or fusion, it was only in the focus to give it better gas mileage since that is the most important thing in the small car segment. New cars are now already dumping GDI technology and switching to "dual injection" which combines both port and direct injection in the same engine and solves the carbon build up problems.

btw I am currently driving a 2010 ford fusion with 245k miles I bought 4 years ago for $4k, but it has the older mazda/ford duratec engine and a plain 6 speed automatic.


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## ggrezzi (Mar 14, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> For rideshare, reliability is more important than interesting/fun.
> 
> For a personal car, however, interesting/fun is more important. If I didn't have the skills to fix my cars, though, and had to pay someone else $$$ thousands to fix them then maybe my opinion would be different.


You make sense, however, in my view, when selecting a car for personal use you should balance intersesting/fun, reliability, and resale value before leasing or financing a car. If you go only by interesting/fun you will end up either loosing $$ or spending a lot of time fixing your car. There are LOTS of interesting /fun , reliable and with good re-sale cars out there.......it is just a matter of knowing them!


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## Who is John Galt? (Sep 28, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> In the UK people do take much better care of their cars. This car is for sale in the UK at the moment on Autotrader. It's a 1998 Nissan Primera (same as Infiniti G20) and is for sale with 24,000 miles on it for 600 quid ($750)


I remember when I first hitched around the US and Canadia as a teenager and Dionne Warwick's song rendition was pretty true then - $100 down and 'go to town' LOL

_L.A. is a great big freeway 
Put a hundred down and buy a car 
In a week, maybe two, they'll make you a star 
Weeks turn into years. How quick they pass &#8230;_

.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

ggrezzi said:


> There are LOTS of interesting /fun , reliable and with good re-sale cars out there.......it is just a matter of knowing them!


For example? As far as I know, there are no secret car models that I am not aware of.


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## Muhammad D (Apr 26, 2020)

The Gift of Fish said:


> For example?


The Toyota FJ Cruiser is one &#128513;


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## Launchpad McQuack (Jan 8, 2019)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> I ended up getting a 2017 Mitsubishi Mirage, 5-speed manual. I like it so far, but we'll see how it pans out in terms of reliability.


There are a couple things that I hate about this car. One that has popped into my head several times over the past couple days is that there are positions from which you cannot shift into reverse. The way my dad explained it to me is that they used a cheaper style of gear with no synchronizer for reverse. If the gears don't align in the position that the vehicle is sitting in, then the only recourse is to move the vehicle a bit into a new position so that they align. It is very irritating when you are trying to parallel park or execute a quick K turn.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Launchpad McQuack said:


> If the gears don't align in the position that the vehicle is sitting in, then the only recourse is to move the vehicle a bit into a new position so that they align.


No, you don't have to move the car. &#128516; If it won't go into reverse, simply put the gear lever back into neutral, let the clutch pedal up and try again. It'll most likely slide straight into reverse.

Reason - going back into neutral / clutch up rotates the input shaft, giving the gears another chance to line up.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

reg barclay said:


> I'm not so familiar, so I won't dispute that. But even going with Ford, I think something like this, almost brand new, is a better bet for $5.5k more, than a seven year old car approaching 100k miles.
> 
> View attachment 467424


Fiesta won't be accepted by Lyft - just as an FYI


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