# Taxes finally done and not happy



## NinjaBlack (Sep 6, 2016)

I had a net loss on Uber and Lyft taxes after the miles deduction and other expenses... However, I'm pissed at the fact that Uber and Lyft tax us on the total bill. In other words we are taxed on their 25% cut, plus fees and tolls. Yes, we can claim these as commissions, but it is not a credit! It is a deduction. There is a big difference. A deduction lowers your taxable income within your tax bracket and a credit is straight off the top. So regardless of what tax bracket you are in, you are only getting a percentage back on those commissions!!!! And the more you make the higher tax bracket and the bigger multiplier effect - BS!!!! My other income puts me in a higher tax bracket and makes me pay more for the Uber/Lyft part of my tax bill --- this is so wrong, but at the same time I'm not surprised. The 1099k should be for what we made - period.....And not what we made and what they made.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

2016 Federal Income Tax Brackets:

*Tax rate* *Single (taxable income)*
10% $0 to $9,275 
15% $9,276 to $37,650 
25% $37,650 to $91,150 
28% $91,150 to $190,150

*Married, filing jointly (taxable income)
10% $0 to $18,550*
15% $18,550 to $75,300
25% $75,300 to $151,900
28% $151,900 to $231,450

that's it. If you are married and had a taxable income of 50,000 you pay 15% federal taxes.

A loss does not raise your taxable income at all, it's a loss! a negative number _reduces _your taxable income.

No loss can raise your taxes. It's a loss!


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## NinjaBlack (Sep 6, 2016)

I get how my tax brackets work-- I have other income too! And that put me in a higher tax bracket - this higher bracket makes me get taxed more on my total income. My total income is higher with Ubers commissions (their 25% of the total plus tolls and fees) These fees are taken off to reduce my taxable income - yes, but they are deductions that reduce how much income I'm being taxed on and that is NOT the same thing as taking the 25%+ off and then being taxed on that amount - I'm sorry - you math does not work for me.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

NinjaBlack said:


> I get how my tax brackets work-- I have other income too! And that put me in a higher tax bracket - this higher bracket makes me get taxed more on my total income. My total income is higher with Ubers commissions (their 25% of the total plus tolls and fees) These fees are taken off to reduce my taxable income - yes, but they are deductions that reduce how much income I'm being taxed on and that is NOT the same thing as taking the 25%+ off and then being taxed on that amount - I'm sorry - you math does not work for me.


try TurboTax Home and Business.

a loss is a negative number, if you had a loss driving Uber/Lyft it can't raise your tax bracket.

If your other income was $50,000 and you had a loss of $500 from Uber your new taxable income is $49,500 lowering your taxable income can't ever put you in a HIGHER bracket.

did you have health insurance for all of 2016?


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## NinjaBlack (Sep 6, 2016)

LAuberX said:


> try TurboTax Home and Business.
> 
> a loss is a negative number, if you had a loss driving Uber/Lyft it can't raise your tax bracket.
> 
> ...


I am using turbo tax and ran the scenario as I described and there is a difference! For example if I had 15k in uber income and the uber 1099k was 20k (which includes all their commissions, fees and tolls) and i put 20k as income and i put the 5k in the commissions box in Turbo tax and figure my taxes, it is not the same thing as me just entering the real 15k earned (rather than the 20k 1099k number)and not entering the 5k commissions in the expense portion. End of story - I am being taxed more due to having to include money I did not earn from them as income and then countering the difference as expenses.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

NinjaBlack said:


> I had a net loss on Uber and Lyft taxes after the miles deduction and other expenses... However, I'm pissed at the fact that Uber and Lyft tax us on the total bill. In other words we are taxed on their 25% cut, plus fees and tolls. Yes, we can claim these as commissions, but it is not a credit! It is a deduction. There is a big difference. A deduction lowers your taxable income within your tax bracket and a credit is straight off the top. So regardless of what tax bracket you are in, you are only getting a percentage back on those commissions!!!! And the more you make the higher tax bracket and the bigger multiplier effect - BS!!!! My other income puts me in a higher tax bracket and makes me pay more for the Uber/Lyft part of my tax bill --- this is so wrong, but at the same time I'm not surprised. The 1099k should be for what we made - period.....And not what we made and what they made.


Uber and Lyft don't tax you.

You thought the 25% or so would be given back to you as a tax credit by the government? Why?



NinjaBlack said:


> I am using turbo tax and ran the scenario as I described and there is a difference! For example if I had 15k in uber income and the uber 1099k was 20k (which includes all their commissions, fees and tolls) and i put 20k as income and i put the 5k in the commissions box in Turbo tax and figure my taxes, it is not the same thing as me just entering the real 15k earned (rather than the 20k 1099k number)and not entering the 5k commissions in the expense portion. End of story - I am being taxed more due to having to include money I did not earn from them as income and then countering the difference as expenses.


The 20 k in your scenario is not income, the 15 k is. Are you filling out a schedule C? Perhaps you should go visit an accountant as what you're saying makes no sense.


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## NinjaBlack (Sep 6, 2016)

NinjaBlack said:


> I am using turbo tax and ran the scenario as I described and there is a difference! For example if I had 15k in uber income and the uber 1099k was 20k (which includes all their commissions, fees and tolls) and i put 20k as income and i put the 5k in the commissions box in Turbo tax and figure my taxes, it is not the same thing as me just entering the real 15k earned (rather than the 20k 1099k number)and not entering the 5k commissions in the expense portion. End of story - I am being taxed more due to having to include money I did not earn from them as income and then countering the difference as expenses.


AND... I'm not claiming that a loss puts me in a higher tax bracket -- my other income does that. What I am claiming is that using Ubers 25% + as part of my income and then using deductions to offset it does not equal out and that the end result makes my loss in the uber part of my taxes less of a loss and makes me pay more taxes than I should.



Fuzzyelvis said:


> Uber and Lyft don't tax you.
> 
> You thought the 25% or so would be given back to you as a tax credit by the government? Why?
> 
> The 20 k in your scenario is not income, the 15 k is. Are you filling out a schedule C? Perhaps you should go visit an accountant as what you're saying makes no sense.


Correct, but you are supposed to put the 20k in as the number from the 1099k - not the 15k - The IRS has the 20k in their system so putting in 15k is a red flag


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

20k - 5k should yield exactly the same tax result as a 15k 1099. If not, something is calculated or input wrong in the software. Make sure the 5k is applied on the same Schedule C as the 1099.

If you do something incorrect like report the 5k as a misc business deduction on Schedule A or somewhere else, it would have a negative impact. Make sure the 5k is showing in the right place as a deduction on the same Scheduke C as the 20k is reported. Otherwise, there is no tax difference. If there is then contact their support or an accountant because it's not right.

Even if you grossed 1,020,000 and had 1,005,000 in uber fees, it's still the same as a 15k 1099. Tax brackets (for IRS individual income tax) don't change based on gross receipts. Only the net passes through to the calculations.

There are very few straight tax credits for business expenses. Both income and expenses apply at the various tax rates. Since the income is only taxed at the tax rate, the expense only reduces the income at the tax rate. The expense just offsets the income so 15 is the same as 20 - 5.

If you do get a difference though, like I said, something is wrong and you should ask their support or an accountant to review it.

There's no reason for the deduction to show up as difference between total income and taxable income. The deduction should already be netted out in the total income number on the main 1040. The only place it would be seen is on the Schedule C. Only the net from Schedule C passes through to the 1040 and tax calculations.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

NinjaBlack said:


> I had a net loss on Uber and Lyft taxes after the miles deduction and other expenses... However, I'm pissed at the fact that Uber and Lyft tax us on the total bill. In other words we are taxed on their 25% cut, plus fees and tolls. Yes, we can claim these as commissions, but it is not a credit! It is a deduction. There is a big difference. A deduction lowers your taxable income within your tax bracket and a credit is straight off the top. So regardless of what tax bracket you are in, you are only getting a percentage back on those commissions!!!! And the more you make the higher tax bracket and the bigger multiplier effect - BS!!!! My other income puts me in a higher tax bracket and makes me pay more for the Uber/Lyft part of my tax bill --- this is so wrong, but at the same time I'm not surprised. The 1099k should be for what we made - period.....And not what we made and what they made.


Huh? Your net revenue is your net revenue. I think you're confusing personal deductions with business expenses. You should only have business revenue and business expenses on your SE form. I may be missing something from your post.


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## NinjaBlack (Sep 6, 2016)

grams777 said:


> 20k - 5k should yield exactly the same tax result as a 15k 1099. If not, something is calculated or input wrong in the software. Make sure the 5k is applied on the same Schedule C as the 1099.
> 
> If you do something incorrect like report the 5k as a misc business deduction on Schedule A or somewhere else, it would have a negative impact. Make sure the 5k is showing in the right place as a deduction on the same Scheduke C as the 20k is reported. Otherwise, there is no tax difference. If there is then contact their support or an accountant because it's not right.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that explanation. I will look to be sure my Schedule C is in order.



LAuberX said:


> try TurboTax Home and Business.
> 
> a loss is a negative number, if you had a loss driving Uber/Lyft it can't raise your tax bracket.
> 
> ...


I did have health insurance.... and thanks for trying to make me understand it all.


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## NinjaBlack (Sep 6, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you, but I think you still may be a little confused about self employment (SE) deductions compared to personal deductions. Business deductions (SE) are not applied on your Schedule C. SE deductions are deducted straight from your revenue and lessen your tax burden immensely. You may want to PM one of our members. His name is UberTaxPro and he is very knowledgeable about the current tax codes. Again, sorry if I'm not understanding your original post.


Thank you for your follow up - I have it all in order as of now


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## Driving and Driven (Jul 4, 2016)

My tax advisor actually researched the Uber fee right in front of me and determined it was a business expense. It is exactly what they say it is on the paperwork Uber provides: It is a fee. Business fees are deductible. I just came back from doing my taxes just now. 

The 25% (or 20%) you pay to Uber is deductible.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you, but I think you still may be a little confused about self employment (SE) deductions compared to personal deductions. Business deductions (SE) are not applied on your Schedule C. SE deductions are deducted straight from your revenue and lessen your tax burden immensely. You may want to PM one of our members. His name is UberTaxPro and he is very knowledgeable about the current tax codes. Again, sorry if I'm not understanding your original post.


And maybe I'm not understanding yours, but it looks to me like all your business expenses, such as vehicle/mileage costs, commissions, phones, etc do indeed go on Schedule C. For example, Line 10 says "Commissions." I would assume that's where you would list Uber's cut of your fares.
I second your suggestion to pm UberTaxPro.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> And maybe I'm not understanding yours, but it looks to me like all your business expenses, such as vehicle/mileage costs, commissions, phones, etc do indeed go on Schedule C. For example, Line 10 says "Commissions." I would assume that's where you would list Uber's cut of your fares.
> I second your suggestion to pm UberTaxPro.


I don't know what the hell I was thinking. After I read my post again I realized I was backwards. Damn tax season.


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## NinjaBlack (Sep 6, 2016)

All Good - I got it all under control and can verify that the schedule C deductions are straight off the top of income. I ended up at about negative 1k to be taxed. Basically taking my tax payment out of my cars equity.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

NinjaBlack said:


> All Good - I got it all under control and can verify that the schedule C deductions are straight off the top of income. I ended up at about negative 1k to be taxed. Basically taking my tax payment out of my cars equity.


 By "negative 1k" do you mean a loss on Schedule C? That would be saving you the tax on $1k any other income you might have. So how what is this "tax payment?"


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## NinjaBlack (Sep 6, 2016)

Older Chauffeur said:


> By "negative 1k" do you mean a loss on Schedule C? That would be saving you the tax on $1k any other income you might have. So how what is this "tax payment?"


Correct - loss on schedule C which helped offset my other income in another job


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## Lee239 (Mar 24, 2017)

NinjaBlack said:


> I had a net loss on Uber and Lyft taxes after the miles deduction and other expenses... However, I'm pissed at the fact that Uber and Lyft tax us on the total bill. In other words we are taxed on their 25% cut, plus fees and tolls. Yes, we can claim these as commissions, but it is not a credit! It is a deduction. There is a big difference. A deduction lowers your taxable income within your tax bracket and a credit is straight off the top. So regardless of what tax bracket you are in, you are only getting a percentage back on those commissions!!!! And the more you make the higher tax bracket and the bigger multiplier effect - BS!!!! My other income puts me in a higher tax bracket and makes me pay more for the Uber/Lyft part of my tax bill --- this is so wrong, but at the same time I'm not surprised. The 1099k should be for what we made - period.....And not what we made and what they made.


So what you are saying is because Uber lists their 25% as income it bumps your gross up to a higher tax bracket? That's insane you don't even see that money. Taxi drivers don't see the 50% or more that a taxi company makes in their 1099. I would ask a tax professional about that it doesn't seem right.

I guess Uber considers the money they take as an expense the driver pays? What a racket and they still can't make a profit.


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## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

Lee239 said:


> So what you are saying is because Uber lists their 25% as income it bumps your gross up to a higher tax bracket? That's insane you don't even see that money. Taxi drivers don't see the 50% or more that a taxi company makes in their 1099. I would ask a tax professional about that it doesn't seem right.
> 
> I guess Uber considers the money they take as an expense the driver pays? What a racket and they still can't make a profit.


Umm most of us do.. (and it's even more complicated than uber)

The indy contractor cabbies like me..

They report ALL the credit card transactions to the IRS. Then I write off the %.

on '17 i had 30,000 or so in credit card transactions reported to the IRS, 20,000 more in cash and 20,000 in expenses. (cab rental, gas, tolls)


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## PrestonT (Feb 15, 2017)

NinjaBlack said:


> AND... I'm not claiming that a loss puts me in a higher tax bracket -- my other income does that. What I am claiming is that using Ubers 25% + as part of my income and then using deductions to offset it does not equal out and that the end result makes my loss in the uber part of my taxes less of a loss and makes me pay more taxes than I should.
> 
> Correct, but you are supposed to put the 20k in as the number from the 1099k - not the 15k - The IRS has the 20k in their system so putting in 15k is a red flag


If you claim $75K Uber income, or claim $100K Uber income and $25K commission deduction, you end up in the same place. A CREDIT directly reduces your taxes owed dollar for dollar. There is no way that could apply here.


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## NinjaBlack (Sep 6, 2016)

Lee239 said:


> So what you are saying is because Uber lists their 25% as income it bumps your gross up to a higher tax bracket? That's insane you don't even see that money. Taxi drivers don't see the 50% or more that a taxi company makes in their 1099. I would ask a tax professional about that it doesn't seem right.
> 
> I guess Uber considers the money they take as an expense the driver pays? What a racket and they still can't make a profit.


yeah - I was mistaken and admit it



PrestonT said:


> If you claim $75K Uber income, or claim $100K Uber income and $25K commission deduction, you end up in the same place. A CREDIT directly reduces your taxes owed dollar for dollar. There is no way that could apply here.


Yes - correct - thanks --I did not know at the time it was a credit and not a deduction - I get it now but thanks


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

NinjaBlack said:


> I am using turbo tax and ran the scenario as I described and there is a difference! For example if I had 15k in uber income and the uber 1099k was 20k (which includes all their commissions, fees and tolls) and i put 20k as income and i put the 5k in the commissions box in Turbo tax and figure my taxes, it is not the same thing as me just entering the real 15k earned (rather than the 20k 1099k number)and not entering the 5k commissions in the expense portion. End of story - I am being taxed more due to having to include money I did not earn from them as income and then countering the difference as expenses.


Um, no.


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