# Is Uber worthwhile for Drivers?



## onsmart (Jun 15, 2015)

In the interest of full disclosure, I have driven with Uber for about 2 weeks. I have concluded that the enterprise is great for the rider, but not so great for the driver. Here are the facts that led me to my conclusion:

There is no way that a driver can come out ahead with the current rates. By the way, the minimum wage in Florida is $8.05. An Uber x driver makes less than minimum wages and that is an undeniable fact. A skilled economist or accountant might jostle my numbers a bit, but there is no way to escape facts that are well known and easily documented.

For example: lets say that you make a 10 mile trip in 15 minutes.(which is pretty hard to do) That is $9.45 fare – Uber takes 20% - which leaves $7.56.(.75 per mile and .13 per minute) Expense and depreciate the car at a modest .40 per mile. That leaves the driver $3.56 for 15 minutes of direct work, which is $14.24 per hour.

Not quite.

The best scenario - working during high demand yields 3 to 1 idle to billing. There is time between rides, the unbilled drive to the rider, canceled rides, and a certain amount of waiting time. That gives you $4.74 per hour in the peak demand periods at regular Uber rates. I am being statistically nice about this.

So - Uber needs to increase its rates by a full 35% and allow tips to create an environment that is worthwhile for the driver.

If I am missing something and there is some silver lining - be sure to respond. I like the work, but the pay seems pretty low.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

no

Uber only cares about what is worthwhile for Uber. I think your 35% figure is low. Rates would need to increase by 50-100% to be worthwhile.

As a fun example of a 50% increase, here would be the new rates for Houston which if were in effect right now, I'd be driving instead of on this forum writing this post (fact!):
Base Fare: $1.00 -> $1.50
Per mile: $1.10 -> $1.65
Per minute: $0.15 -> $0.23
Min Fare: $5.00 -> $7.50
No Safe ride fee because it's dumb: $1 -> $0
Cancellation fee: $6.00 -> $6.00 (it's fine)

now, I will invent an example trip to see the difference in pay under these more reasonable rates:
My house to the airport.
29.7 miles, 35 minutes

Total fare at current rates: $39.93 After commission: $31.14
Total fare at better rates: $58.06 After commission: $46.45

That's $15 whole ****ing dollars, and still a reasonable price for what will end up taking about an hour of the drivers time.


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## alln (Jun 16, 2015)

onsmart said:


> In the interest of full disclosure, I have driven with Uber for about 2 weeks. I have concluded that the enterprise is great for the rider, but not so great for the driver. Here are the facts that led me to my conclusion:
> 
> There is no way that a driver can come out ahead with the current rates. By the way, the minimum wage in Florida is $8.05. An Uber x driver makes less than minimum wages and that is an undeniable fact. A skilled economist or accountant might jostle my numbers a bit, but there is no way to escape facts that are well known and easily documented.
> 
> ...


On top of that Uber quality control standards are ridiculous 4.6 rating system, this company eventually will go down because they are really paying no attention to their drivers issues


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## onsmart (Jun 15, 2015)

I currently rate at 4.77 with 120 rides.

Uber needs to do a better job of educating riders on the ratings. In my experience, the concern is that riders lose sight of the fact that they are guests in your car. Additionally, some riders will discount your stars for the least imperfection. For example, recently one of my riders gave me a 1 star. The rider put in the wrong destination address for a lower end cost. As we were moving, I picked up on the mistake and had the rider put in the corrected destination, which was a higher end cost and the confusion might have added 2 miles overall. Things happen. However, this rider took 4 stars for a $2 misunderstanding that he had a whole lot more to do with than I did.

I had a charge nurse that just berated me because I admitted that I was new and could she help me with the best drop-off at the building she was going to. She obviously forgot her guest status in my car. If I knew what I knew today, I would have pulled over and politely explained that the ride was over, to expect full credit, and told her to get her butt out of my car as I canceled the ride.


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## onsmart (Jun 15, 2015)

42 hours online - 400.00 earnings - Not to mention 1000 miles @ .40 per mile - Something is wrong with this picture.


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## Megaas2000 (May 8, 2015)

onsmart said:


> In the interest of full disclosure, I have driven with Uber for about 2 weeks. I have concluded that the enterprise is great for the rider, but not so great for the driver. Here are the facts that led me to my conclusion:
> 
> There is no way that a driver can come out ahead with the current rates. By the way, the minimum wage in Florida is $8.05. An Uber x driver makes less than minimum wages and that is an undeniable fact. A skilled economist or accountant might jostle my numbers a bit, but there is no way to escape facts that are well known and easily documented.
> 
> ...


Dead on. this is why I stopped driving. I use UBER and I like the service but not as a driver. Drivers get the short end of this stick. UBER and riders win every time.


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

Megaas2000 said:


> Dead on. this is why I stopped driving. I use UBER and I like the service but not as a driver. Drivers get the short end of this stick. UBER and riders win every time.


I would love to use Uber but after experiencing what it's like to be a driver, I would feel like a low life doing so.


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## alln (Jun 16, 2015)

itsablackmarket said:


> I would love to use Uber but after experiencing what it's like to be a driver, I would feel like a low life doing so.


You kinda right bro, but nobody is driving because they like it, but some people may be doing it as a last resort. I am interviewing from last 1 year for regular job, I have 4 years college degree from state university. Due to my middle eastern name, my resume don't get any response. Equal opportunity is all crap


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## azndriver87 (Mar 23, 2015)

Change your name to John.


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## alln (Jun 16, 2015)

azndriver87 said:


> Change your name to John.


 once I did on resume and started getting interview calls right away 
But real name change long process


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## itsablackmarket (May 12, 2015)

alln said:


> You kinda right bro, but nobody is driving because they like it, but some people may be doing it as a last resort. I am interviewing from last 1 year for regular job, I have 4 years college degree from state university. Due to my middle eastern name, my resume don't get any response. Equal opportunity is all crap


Don't change your name. I have a middle eastern name too but 99% of people would think I'm white if they saw me. Never change for them, never submit.


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## ulf (Jun 13, 2015)

For example, recently one of my riders gave me a 1 star. The rider put in the wrong destination address for a lower end cost. As we were moving, I picked up on the mistake and had the rider put in the corrected destination, which was a higher end cost and the confusion might have added 2 miles overall. Things happen.

Onsmart

It doesnt matter what address is put as destination ,you will get paid the distance and time you drive.
Some Pax don't put anything in the destination


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## onsmart (Jun 15, 2015)

I smell a troll.


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## YouWishYouKnewMe (May 26, 2015)

You've just touched the "tip" of the iceberg 
The "shaft" is coming soon
Uber x on!


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## ulf (Jun 13, 2015)

The pax was probably upset because you argued with him and made him to put a different destination in why it didn't matter what he put in.
You argued with him for no reason


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## litentite (Feb 25, 2015)

No....been driving for 4 months now on a leased vehicle...at 1st it was ok....I only drive surge hours...but Uber has saturated the market with drivers here...I use to make about 100$ for 3 to 4 hours of driving...today i made 20$....I'm done with uber...no Uber x fares for me and lyft is no bettter....good luck


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## Ghostwren (Jul 1, 2015)

onsmart said:


> In the interest of full disclosure, I have driven with Uber for about 2 weeks. I have concluded that the enterprise is great for the rider, but not so great for the driver. Here are the facts that led me to my conclusion:
> 
> There is no way that a driver can come out ahead with the current rates. By the way, the minimum wage in Florida is $8.05. An Uber x driver makes less than minimum wages and that is an undeniable fact. A skilled economist or accountant might jostle my numbers a bit, but there is no way to escape facts that are well known and easily documented.
> 
> ...


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## Ghostwren (Jul 1, 2015)

In Australia the minimum wage is $22 per hour. The cost of living is commensurate, ie the iphone 6 plus is $1149 here. This is what I have worked out now that our tax office, the ATO has decided to charge drivers 10% GST

(Please note all my costs are below bench mark for Australia and as realistic as I could make them for my own circumstances.)

*Melbourne Uber base rates $1.10km + .35c/min + $2 flagfall*

Lets assume 10KM in distance is travelled in 1 fare in an hour, consuming 15 minutes in one hour. (this equation assumes travel at speed 40km per hour, no delays)

Flag fare is $2

10km x $1.10 = $11

plus minute rate of 15 minutes it took to drive

.35c x 15min = $5.25

*In that hour the driver grossed $18.25 and that sounds like as much as you could reasonably charge for the trip.*

Uber gets 20% ($3.65)

Which leaves the driver $14.60

The ATO wants 10% GST $1.66 on the whole fare $18.25 which the driver must pay from what remains:

$14.60 - $1.66 = $12.94 that's BEFORE business expenses

Now lets work with fuel costs at 12c per KM ($60 tank getting approx 500km per tank fuel efficiency in city driving conditions) so for this 10KM ride, it costs 12c x 10km x 2 for the collect/return journey = $2.40

Comprehensive Car Insurance is $525 per year, there are 8765.81277 hours in a year....so $525 divided by 8765.81277 = .059c or 6c per hour (please note the driver pays for each and every hour, whether driving or not)

Car servicing is $500 per year / 8765.81277 = 6c per hour

Registration is $719.90 / 8765.81277 = 8c per hour

Each txt message is 25c, lets assume only 1 was sent to the passenger in the hour.

Lets assume wear and tear of $600 per year (tyres, windscreen wiper blades, brake pads, clutch cable etc, lets say any combo of one or two)

$600 / 8765.81277 = .7c per hour

Washing and cleaning car, candies ?? too hard to estimate, I'll throw it in free.

The driver has now $12.94 - 2.40 - .06 - .06 - .08 - .25 - .07= $10.02 per hour

Of those running costs 10% GST tax credits can be claimed back totaling 27c

*Leaving a grand total of $10.29 per hour for the driver. *

Lets hope they get a second fare that hour! Lets hope they are not cruising around costing themselves more fuel when not on a job.

*If we did drive another 20km in that hour scouting, it costs $2.40 in fuel, leaving net earnings at *

*$7.89 per hour after costs. *

*At least at these rates, we should not exceed the income tax threshold, $18 200 per annum*

*To earn $18 200 a driver must work (without cruising but averaging 1 job per hour $10.29) 1769 hours a year or 36 hours a week based on a 48 week working year. *

*Worst case scenario is no jobs and cruising. *

*Best case scenario, free parking, 2 or more jobs per hour on average, faster speed limits, longer fares, more delays.*

*Minimum of two jobs per hour or booked 50% of the time to be on minimum wage. In all that must wash and clean the car, provide sweets and do all record keeping for no fee. Plus this does not include accounting fees or cost of complying with BAS/book keeping.*

Feel free to use my formula for your figures, but it will only work in Australia due to our tax rules...but don't go re-posting it please.


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## Ghostwren (Jul 1, 2015)

Ghostwren said:


> .7


that should read .07c just to be clear


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## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

This is a well known fact on this forum for X drivers, X drivers have been *****ing about it for, well, since the rate cuts before Xmas of 2013. 

Only UberPlus/Select and UberLivery/BLACK/SUV is profitable, which is why I switched to Black/SUV about three months ago.


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