# Operating cost of your vehicle



## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

Seeing that this is an issue that keeps coming up, I did a quick and dirty spreadsheet to calculate basic operating costs. This one is for my 2015 Prius C. If anyone is interested, post your numbers and I'll plug them into the sheet and post it for you. Alternatively, I can send you this sheet and you can plug in your own numbers (just note, this isn't Excel. I use Apple Numbers.)










And, once again, this is why your operating costs are the most important number you need to know... (So, no, you're NOT being paid less than it costs to operate your vehicle.)


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Make sure you add costs for every part of a car charged by a shop, struts alone are well over 700, include every part in your spreadsheet for true costs.

From a door actuator to a dog bone that holds an Engine 1 of three not including the engine mounts. Every single part that depreciates with every ride of true costs at a shop.
Would love to add this spreadsheet with this thread, and eventually break it down to EVERY true cost of every part you ware out when you drive.
https://uberpeople.net/threads/master-mechanics-opinion.315353/


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## Nathan Forrest (Apr 30, 2019)

You are destroying your cars 
for pennies


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Nathan Forrest said:


> You are destroying your cars
> for pennies


No it's 19 cents for every mile for every car part in the car (parts and labor) what is wrong with you?


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## Declineathon (Feb 12, 2019)

dragnet said:


> Seeing that this is an issue that keeps coming up, I did a quick and dirty spreadsheet to calculate basic operating costs. This one is for my 2015 Prius C. If anyone is interested, post your numbers and I'll plug them into the sheet and post it for you. Alternatively, I can send you this sheet and you can plug in your own numbers (just note, this isn't Excel. I use Apple Numbers.)
> 
> View attachment 319780
> 
> ...


How can i obtain this sharp looking display?


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

Jay Dean said:


> Make sure you add costs for every part of a car charged by a shop, struts alone are well over 700, include every part in your spreadsheet for true costs.
> 
> From a door actuator to a dog bone that holds an Engine 1 of three not including the engine mounts. Every single part that depreciates with every ride of true costs at a shop.
> Would love to add this spreadsheet with this thread, and eventually break it down to EVERY true cost of every part you ware out when you drive.
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/master-mechanics-opinion.315353/


Repair costs work out to $0.019/mile. So, over the lifetime of the car (200k miles) that works out to $3800 over 4 years.



Declineathon said:


> How can i obtain this sharp looking display?


Are you using a Mac?


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

dragnet said:


> Repair costs work out to $0.019/mile. So, over the lifetime of the car (200k miles) that works out to $3800 over 4 years.
> 
> 
> Are you using a Mac?


How does repair costs work out to 19 cents a mile for every car part and labor?

Have you quoted what a shop charges for each part to replace to get this figure?


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

Jay Dean said:


> How does repair costs work out to 19 cents a mile for every car part and labor?
> 
> Have you quoted what a shop charges for each part to replace to get this figure?


Are you going to replace every single part on your car during it's useful lifetime?


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

dragnet said:


> Are you going to replace every single part on your car during it's useful lifetime?


It is the true costs, isn't that what we are talking about here? Just because you dispose of a car when it's ratty doesn't mean you didn't lose out.

And the car wouldn't be in the situation it is in if it wasn't used commercially.

If you buy a car used for Uber and operate it at Uber like your suggesting did you come up with 19 cents a mile for commercial use? Or you just assuming people would trash their car when it becomes a burden so every true costs gets tucked under the rug, or junk yard in this perspective


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Nathan Forrest said:


> You are destroying your cars
> for pennies


you are wasting your time trolling for FREE !!!


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

Here's a repair website that calculates the repair costs for a Prius at $360/year. You can guess that's over the course of a 10 year period for normal driving. So, my estimate of $3800 roughly agrees with that figure.

https://repairpal.com/toyota/prius+c
And take note, it's NOT 19 cents per mile. It's 1.9 cents per mile over the lifetime of the car.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

dragnet said:


> Here's a repair website that calculates the repair costs for a Prius at $360/year. You can guess that's over the course of a 10 year period for normal driving. So, my estimate of $3800 roughly agrees with that figure.
> 
> And take note, it's NOT 19 cents per mile. It's 1.9 cents per mile over the lifetime of the car.


Good lord I thought you were talking 19 cents! Still didn't add up ,1.9,are you insane?!?!

Unreal


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

Jay Dean said:


> If you buy a car used for Uber and operate it at Uber like your suggesting did you come up with 19 cents a mile for commercial use? Or you just assuming people would trash their car when it becomes a burden so every true costs gets tucked under the rug, or junk yard in this perspective


If you buy a used car for Uber, you can pretty much expect that within 4-5 years the vehicle will have little or no value.



Jay Dean said:


> Good lord I thought you were talking 19 cents! Still didn't add up ,1.9,are you insane?!?!


Don't guess at number based on what you think they should be. You have to actually do the calculations.

I just noticed the link I just added for a calculation of repair costs is actually for repairs and maintenance. My numbers are more than double what this repair site is estimating.

Think about the numbers:

200,000 useful miles of driving.
$7200 of repairs and maintenance over 4 years.
$7200 divided by 200,000 = 3.8 cents per mile.
Split evenly between repairs and maintenance it's 1.9 cents per mile each.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

It costs 5k just to get a transmission repaired lol, timing belt is 1k, power steering 1k, struts 700, any electrical issue min 400 I could go on and on what ‘could go on’ and only takes minutes to pass your 4 year pipe dream of costs


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

Jay Dean said:


> It costs 5k just to get a transmission repaired lol, timing belt is 1k, power steering 1k, struts 700, any electrical issue min 400 I could go on and on what 'could go on' and only takes minutes to pass your 4 year pipe dream of costs


Sure, if you start with a vehicle that has 100k you're going to run into a lot of that. But then you're also going to start with a vehicle that costs less to buy.

My situation is starting with a Prius C with 18,000 miles and then running the numbers out from there.

Here's a different scenario. Buy a 2005 Corolla for $1200. Bump your monthly maintenance and repair costs to $400/month. This is what you get:










I'd suggest that you're much better off buying a used vehicle with very low mileage. Most of the first half of the life of the car should be relatively low maintenance. If you take good care of it, you can usually get pretty far along with low costs.



Jay Dean said:


> It costs 5k just to get a transmission repaired lol, timing belt is 1k, power steering 1k, struts 700, any electrical issue min 400 I could go on and on what 'could go on' and only takes minutes to pass your 4 year pipe dream of costs


Here again, I'd suggest you're not running the numbers. There are lots of websites out there where you can get a good estimate of maintenance and repair costs for any vehicle made. Look at those numbers.

Here you're just listing off repairs as if every one of these things WILL break on your car. In reality only one or two might occur, except for cars that have low reliability ratings.


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## Uber1111uber (Oct 21, 2017)

I think the chart is pretty accurate but a lot of people use crap cars to start. You pretty much need a corolla or a Prius to have the most upside. I used to drive a corolla for uber. With ur chart its about $.29 a mile to operate but the problem is here we only get $.60/mile so if u profit $.31/ mile and drive with pax 20 miles in every hour and it takes about 40 mins it means your making (.$31*20) $6.20 + (40 mins* $.12/min) $4.80 so $10/hr. Which sucks and that's y I quit after flat surge


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

If you can do basic mechanic work, repair cost of most cars within first 100K miles is about $1,000 or less. Nothing major breaks within first 100K. What you will have to do:

*Timing belt/water pump - $100 in parts
*Maybe the shocks/struts - $300
*Transmission flush/filter - $50-200 (depending on frequency)
*Differential flush - $100
*Coolant flush -$20
*Air filter - $25
*Brake pads/rotors (one set rotors, two sets pads) - $150

Everything else is just oil changes, fluid checks, and tires.

Between 100-150K you may have some additional repairs:

* Alternator - $100-150
* Starter - $100
* Brake master cylinder - $75
* Brake pads/rotors - $100
* Maybe radiator/hoses - $100
* CV joints - $200-300

Between 150K-250K is where you might need to do major repairs of trany and engine.

Youtube shows how to do all the work.


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## Lawlet91 (Jun 8, 2017)

So following your quick and dirty numbers (which seem to err on the lower conservative side of costs) your adjusted loaded mile cost is $.38 per mile. Considering the vast majority of markets will have 1 mile loaded to 1 mile unloaded, thus you eat the mileage cost into your loaded revenue.

In a market like Orlando with rates at $.53 a mile means your operative profit per mile would be $.15 per mile AT THE BEST OF CASES.


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

Uber1111uber said:


> I think the chart is pretty accurate but a lot of people use crap cars to start. You pretty much need a corolla or a Prius to have the most upside. I used to drive a corolla for uber. With ur chart its about $.29 a mile to operate but the problem is here we only get $.60/mile so if u profit $.31/ mile and drive with pax 20 miles in every hour and it takes about 40 mins it means your making (.$31*20) $6.20 + (40 mins* $.12/min) $4.80 so $10/hr. Which sucks and that's y I quit after flat surge


I think if you average out your rides over a week or month, you'll find you're pulling in closer to $1.20/mile, if you're in a major market like SF or LA.


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## Yomann (Sep 23, 2014)

I drive a car I enjoy driving - and will take it's higher operating costs.
Every mile & minute is more comfortable for me.
Here's what a pax wrote in comments:
"Liked riding in the AWD MazdaCX5, when most drivers have Priuses"
That's all the validation I need ?


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

Lawlet91 said:


> In a market like Orlando with rates at $.53 a mile means your operative profit per mile would be $.15 per mile AT THE BEST OF CASES.


I think you're ignoring the time element of your income.

I also don't think my estimates are on the low side. I posted one website that validated my maintenance and repairs figures, so if anything, I might be on the high side. The Prius C is a very low cost vehicle to operate though. Other brands/models are going to be much higher.


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## Yomann (Sep 23, 2014)

Why are the posts, views, start date on this thread showing up as blanks ?
Is this a TOU's issue ? Or just a glitch ?


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

Yomann said:


> Why are the posts, views, start date on this thread showing up as blanks ?
> Is this a TOU's issue ? Or just a glitch ?


Looks fine on my end..


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

Yomann said:


> Why are the posts, views, start date on this thread showing up as blanks ?
> Is this a TOU's issue ? Or just a glitch ?


This thread was moved from SF to Pay. So on the SF forum those figures show up blank.



Lawlet91 said:


> So following your quick and dirty numbers (which seem to err on the lower conservative side of costs) your adjusted loaded mile cost is $.38 per mile. Considering the vast majority of markets will have 1 mile loaded to 1 mile unloaded, thus you eat the mileage cost into your loaded revenue.


Just reread this post.

No. These are not loaded/unloaded figures since that's irrelevant to total operating cost. These figures are for your total driving time.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

Using a car for Uber with 18k is like showing up to Mcdonalds wearing a suit, except at Mcdonalds your life can't be ruined or ruin many anothers lives by a car accident that gets you sued through your nose by people in crash or their family. I only drive at select times in my pos car because I would never risk anything of value or my life at these rates. What do you factor your hourly wage is and tell me how you feel about your risk factor in this what seems to be long adventure you have planned in each day you plan to drive to 200k at this. Have you budgeted lawyer fees for an accident? If you have an electrical issue in your battery car what is the worst case repair cost with that? Call them hidden costs, I call them reality. Every turn is a depreciation, driving in anything of value is about the worst decision anyone can make (highly debatable with most cars) considering the risks and depreciation. But if you have free time and like making small wages where at any turn could ruin your life financially or worse, this is the gig for you.


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

dragnet said:


> Seeing that this is an issue that keeps coming up, I did a quick and dirty spreadsheet to calculate basic operating costs. This one is for my 2015 Prius C. If anyone is interested, post your numbers and I'll plug them into the sheet and post it for you. Alternatively, I can send you this sheet and you can plug in your own numbers (just note, this isn't Excel. I use Apple Numbers.)
> 
> View attachment 319780
> 
> ...


You forgot to deduct the commute miles and gas you would normally create commuting to a real job thats not reimbursed. If you want a proper comparison between uber or a job.

For me, working uber part time equates to the same miles i would put on my car commuting only now i can deduct those costs off my taxes and earn more over all, for me its a total win. Same miles, more money and less taxes.


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

NotanEmployee said:


> You forgot to deduct the commute miles and gas you would normally create commuting to a real job thats not reimbursed. If you want a proper comparison between uber or a job.


a) You only have to do that IF you normally commute to an office.
b) That still doesn't alter the operating cost per mile.

The operating cost of your vehicle is what it is regardless of how you're using it. What does alter the figure significantly is how MUCH you use the vehicle, precisely because there are some costs that are fixed and some that are variable.



Jay Dean said:


> Using a car for Uber with 18k is like showing up to Mcdonalds wearing a suit, except at Mcdonalds your life can't be ruined or ruin many anothers lives by a car accident that gets you sued through your nose by people in crash or their family. I only drive at select times in my pos car because I would never risk anything of value or my life at these rates. What do you factor your hourly wage is and tell me how you feel about your risk factor in this what seems to be long adventure you have planned in each day you plan to drive to 200k at this. Have you budgeted lawyer fees for an accident? If you have an electrical issue in your battery car what is the worst case repair cost with that? Call them hidden costs, I call them reality. Every turn is a depreciation, driving in anything of value is about the worst decision anyone can make (highly debatable with most cars) considering the risks and depreciation. But if you have free time and like making small wages where at any turn could ruin your life financially or worse, this is the gig for you.


I'm telling you, go look up anyone else's estimations of costs. They agree with what I'm telling you.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

dragnet said:


> a) You only have to do that IF you normally commute to an office.
> b) That still doesn't alter the operating cost per mile.
> 
> The operating cost of your vehicle is what it is regardless of how you're using it. What does alter the figure significantly is how MUCH you use the vehicle, precisely because there are some costs that are fixed and some that are variable.
> ...


The operative word here is "estimate"

The numbers are only an estimate until you finally dispose of the car. I assume I'll get 3 years And 200000 miles out of the car I estimate maintenance and repairs for my car at $3500/ year. If my estimates are wrong my actual costs will be more or less that I've calculated


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## amazinghl (Oct 31, 2018)

Nathan Forrest said:


> You are destroying your cars
> for pennies


You don't tip, so what do you care?


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

oldfart said:


> The operative word here is "estimate"
> 
> The numbers are only an estimate until you finally dispose of the car. I assume I'll get 3 years And 200000 miles out of the car I estimate maintenance and repairs for my car at $3500/ year. If my estimates are wrong my actual costs will be more or less that I've calculated


Well, it's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. - Yogi Berra


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

25rides7daysaweek said:


> you are wasting your time trolling for FREE !!!


Lol.

Trolls are definitely running out of material. The first troll who comes up with an _original_ troll put down or points scoring attempt will receive a like from me. That's my offer. Step right up!


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## losiglow (Dec 4, 2018)

That's a pretty cool analysis. I keep track of all my expenses on a standard excel spreadsheet in order to calculate an overhead %. That isn't cents per mile like yours but rather, the amount of every dollar that's going to operating costs. Currently I'm at about 23%. This is my daily driver as well so I've broken out fuel costs specific to Uber and divided the repairs and maintenance costs by miles driven for Uber vs. total miles driven (to take into account miles put on for other use).

I'd be interested in seeing cent per mile operating costs. Not sure what numbers you need but here's what I have (for 2019):

Total fares: $11,678.96
Fuel Cost: $1429.38
Repairs: $169.39
Maintenance: $542.98
Car info - 2012 Acura TL, starting mileage 182,663 - current mileage 197,635 (I calculate this to be about a $350 deduction due to depreciation - calculated by NADA).

Repairs are just parts. I do all my own auto work. Maintenance includes 2 tires, of which I had replaced at the beginning of the year. The rest is oil, ATF, brakes, etc.


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## gambler1621 (Nov 14, 2017)

Yomann said:


> I drive a car I enjoy driving - and will take it's higher operating costs.
> Every mile & minute is more comfortable for me.
> Here's what a pax wrote in comments:
> "Liked riding in the AWD MazdaCX5, when most drivers have Priuses"
> That's all the validation I need ?


The only validation that I need is that all my bills are paid at the end of the month. If I come up short Validation=FAIL, If I pay all my bills and put some in the bank, Validation=SUCCESS. If this validation fails, it doesn't matter how comfortable I am, I will eventually end up VERY uncomfortable.


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## wicked (Sep 24, 2017)

Guys even in the second 100,000 miles these days I have had some pretty good luck.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> The first troll who comes up with an _original_ troll put down or points scoring attempt will receive a like from me. That's my offer. Step right up!


In the merry month of May
I sing and dance all day
I put the fish
Into my dish
And then I throw it away!

(There, you got a Mod Troll Song)

???


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## wicked (Sep 24, 2017)

Okay send me the chart?


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

Excellent analysis of costs.
The only argument I would have with your numbers is regarding insurance. Just owning the car requires insurance outlay - whether or not you drive rideshare, so insurance should not be considered a rideshare cost but rather a car ownership cost. The only actual rideshare insurance cost is just gap coverage. Given this, your costs are actually lower than you show.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

MadTownUberD said:


> In the merry month of May
> I sing and dance all day
> I put the fish
> Into my dish
> ...


That was absolutely terrible. But yours was the first and only entry so the like is yours. ?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Tarvus said:


> Excellent analysis of costs.
> The only argument I would have with your numbers is regarding insurance. Just owning the car requires insurance outlay - whether or not you drive rideshare, so insurance should not be considered a rideshare cost but rather a car ownership cost. The only actual rideshare insurance cost is just gap coverage. Given this, your costs are actually lower than you show.


That's exactly right. Insurance goes to the cost of owning the car. And that's what the op is calculating

It dosent matter whether it's rideshare or driving to visit grandma at Christmas. Every mile costs you something


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## emdeplam (Jan 13, 2017)

Really nice work. Applies well beyond rideshare to any job you need a car to get too. I would bet not many calculate this cost against their salaries


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

There are at least 3 very tangible "side benefits" to driving Rideshare besides just the fun and money, at least in my experience (YMMV):

*1. An acute understanding of what it costs to own and operate a motor vehicle. * As Em said above, many are ignorant of this until they have to make a repair or buy another vehicle. In my case I take it a step further and tweak my cost per mile up and down based on fuel economy, because highway miles are way easier on a car.

*2. Becoming a much safer driver. * I used to speed a lot. I don't anymore (at least not excessively). I used to stomp on it when the light turned green. I don't anymore. The threat of deactivation for safety reasons is very real so I don't even want to get pulled over for any reason, let alone speeding.

*3. A clean car.* Before I drove Rideshare I used to eat in my car. I only do this now in very controlled circumstances. I am always staying on top of crumbs, hair, dust, smudges on the windows, etc. I have nice rubber floor mats that I shake/sweep out regularly. It's more enjoyable to drive / ride in a clean car than a dirty one.


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## phoneguy (Apr 15, 2015)

I am going to try to work up a spreadsheet like the one above using real numbers. I do track my mileage a lot closer them most but I feel I can work something out for everyone. In the end, you can feed in your real numbers and see what you get for your market.

So I am going to use the basic from above, I will have it so you can put in your own numbers, like for me, I do most of my own car maintenance (brakes, struts, and so on) but the major thinks, I let a mechanic do (engine work). Once I get this done, I will attach it to the article or put it on github so you can download it and play with it yourself.


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## Jay Dean (Apr 3, 2015)

phoneguy said:


> I am going to try to work up a spreadsheet like the one above using real numbers. I do track my mileage a lot closer them most but I feel I can work something out for everyone. In the end, you can feed in your real numbers and see what you get for your market.
> 
> So I am going to use the basic from above, I will have it so you can put in your own numbers, like for me, I do most of my own car maintenance (brakes, struts, and so on) but the major thinks, I let a mechanic do (engine work). Once I get this done, I will attach it to the article or put it on github so you can download it and play with it yourself.


Really should calculate every single car part you wear out for the rates for Uber/Lyft. Most just say well I would be driving anyway, hundreds of car parts get wore out driving strangers, everything from a door actuator to a dog bone to a hose to a headlight to a ignition coil to a gasket head to a caliper to a.....hundreds of car parts get wore out driving strangers, that's the graph I want to see. Favors for strangers and it costs you money.

This is why we should calculate every car part as expense because that is what we wear out driving strangers for what we think is income.

You should factor in every car part because that is what we are giving and losing when driving. Sending a car to a junk yard at 200k (A BIG IF it makes 200k without major issue) is not calculating expense lost, the loss is all the wear to replace for someone else(strangers) where it wouldn't wear out as an expense for others if we drove the car for our own interests and purpose. Labor costs are an addition for replacement for every part you wear out, and the more inner city driving you do the faster the part gets wore out.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Tarvus said:


> Excellent analysis of costs.
> The only argument I would have with your numbers is regarding insurance. Just owning the car requires insurance outlay - whether or not you drive rideshare, so insurance should not be considered a rideshare cost but rather a car ownership cost. The only actual rideshare insurance cost is just gap coverage. Given this, your costs are actually lower than you show.


Except that if you didn't do rideshare, you might opt not to have a car or opt not to have so many.

I now own 2 cars, an UberX car and an UberXL car for the weekends. I pay more to insure both than if I had only one. There is zero chance I would own two cars if I was not an Uber driver, and a good possibility that I wouldn't own any car.... and if I did own a car it would probably be some 1990's beater with much cheaper registration/insurance etc.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

dragnet said:


> View attachment 319780


Following this, depreciation is $4,200 per year, but that number varies greatly depending on vehicle info like make, model, year, starting/ending mileage and resale/trade value. How does one figure out those adjustments?


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

Fozzie said:


> Following this, depreciation is $4,200 per year, but that number varies greatly depending on vehicle info like make, model, year, starting/ending mileage and resale/trade value. How does one figure out those adjustments?


As I originally stated, these numbers are only for my 2015 Prius C. I think it's probably has one of the lowest cost of operation for any car out there, unless you're able to find a similarly efficient car for less money.


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## phoneguy (Apr 15, 2015)

I have completed working up the sheet - I believe it may overcome some of the issues have been bring up. Anything in the Dark Green can be updated with your details and assumptions. (Mileage Rate, Gas Prices in your area, car interest rate and so on). At the bottom, you can also see my first 4 months of driving and my estimated taxes and even my pay rate. I look at it this way, I am getting about $15.36 per hour for driving after all expenses and I get a free car when it is said in done since I did include 10k of personal driving and since I get to set my own hours, I believe this is a great part time job. As a full time job, it would be rough but more then the $15 min wage the people are pushing for.

Down load the file and unzip it to see full excel file.


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## LuxCarSpy (Jan 25, 2019)

dragnet said:


> Seeing that this is an issue that keeps coming up, I did a quick and dirty spreadsheet to calculate basic operating costs. This one is for my 2015 Prius C. If anyone is interested, post your numbers and I'll plug them into the sheet and post it for you. Alternatively, I can send you this sheet and you can plug in your own numbers (just note, this isn't Excel. I use Apple Numbers.)
> 
> View attachment 319780
> 
> ...


HOW MUCH IT COSTS AND WHAT YOU EARN - Average 5 Passenger Car - 40 hr work week 
At $30k per year you break even at $185 in earnings after a 100 mile day
At $40k per year you break even at $319 in earnings after a 100 mile day

Dragnet 
Your numbers may reflect what you are spending but I think its likely higher for most people.
1. Gas MPG - You get 52 most would get half that hence price per mile probably $.15 
2 Maintenance - I suspect as the vehicle ages you'll experience higher costs per mile closer to $.06
3. Repair - See above and the cost of road damage (not insurable) - cost per mile closer to $.08
4. Cleaning (wash weekly), air sprays, misc - cost per mile closer to $.025
5. W1099 employee cost - est. 10% less income because of self employment tax - cost per mile $.125
6. Insurance beyond standard - cost per mile $.04 
OVERALL - I thinks its better to assume IRS deduction $.545 per mile is closer to accurate (average)

7. Uber driving is your business and your investment is in the car (its your money not uber's)- You should expect 20%-25% return on the investment in your car. The same as any business that buys an asset to use in their business - So $14,000 x 25% = $3500 per year is about $.06 per mile (60k miles)

8. TIME - UBER GOTCHA - (mine and some other metro driver numbers) Average speed per hour 17 MPH, Average travel to rider distance is about 14% of ride distance, 40 hr week = 2,000 hrs per yr (2-wk vacation), miles per 2k hour year 34,000, PAY - $15 p/hr is ($30k/34k miles) = $.883 per mile or $1.01 per mile of trips.

9. My point to all this - I believe your numbers reflect your experience but here are some averages based on normal 40 hour weeks and what Uber SHOULD be paying drivers per mile.:

IRS Amount = $.545 + Cleaning $.025 + W1099 cost $.125 + Extra Insurance $.04 
+ Investment $.103 (34k miles p/yr) + TIME $1.01 p/mile
TOTAL = $1.848 ~ or $1.85 per mile traveled. To make $30,000 per year or 
TOTAL = $3.19 per mile to make $40,000 per year for your time effort and investment

HOW MUCH IT COSTS AND WHAT YOU EARN - Average 5 Passenger Car - 40 hr work week 
At $30k per year you break even at $185 in earnings after a 100 mile day - Check your odometer !!
At $40k per year you break even at $319 in earnings after a 100 mile day - Check your odometer !!


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## RideshareDog (Feb 25, 2019)

dragnet said:


> Seeing that this is an issue that keeps coming up, I did a quick and dirty spreadsheet to calculate basic operating costs. This one is for my 2015 Prius C. If anyone is interested, post your numbers and I'll plug them into the sheet and post it for you. Alternatively, I can send you this sheet and you can plug in your own numbers (just note, this isn't Excel. I use Apple Numbers.)
> 
> View attachment 319780
> 
> ...


I have a prius c too. what repairs or maintenance stuff have u done on it other than oil changes/tire rotations.


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

RideshareDog said:


> I have a prius c too. what repairs or maintenance stuff have u done on it other than oil changes/tire rotations.


So far, nothing other than that. But the figures I'm using are looking forward, over the full lifetime of the car... as opposed to looking backward at what happened.



LuxCarSpy said:


> HOW MUCH IT COSTS AND WHAT YOU EARN - Average 5 Passenger Car - 40 hr work week
> At $30k per year you break even at $185 in earnings after a 100 mile day
> At $40k per year you break even at $319 in earnings after a 100 mile day
> 
> ...


Yes. I said in the very first post, these are the numbers for my car. Everyone else is going to likely be different.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

dragnet said:


> I think if you average out your rides over a week or month, you'll find you're pulling in closer to $1.20/mile, if you're in a major market like SF or LA.


Pulling in $1.20 per mile in San Francisco? Congrats. Taxis were pulling in $1.20 per mile in 1979.

Many major markets including Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Cleveland, Dallas, Miami, etc. are pulling in LESS than $1.00 per mile.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Pulling in $1.20 per mile? Congrats. Taxis were pulling in $1.20 per mile in 1979.
> 
> Many major markets including Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Cleveland, Dallas, Miami, etc. are pulling in LESS than $1.00 per mile.


We are not talking about 1979 We are talking about today. And in this thread we haven't been talking about income at all. 
The op has posted a good way to estimate the cost per mile to drive a car. And gave us his numbers

As he said everyone's number will be different
My inputs

$20000 used car with 70000 miles

Expected remaining economic life. 3 years at 70k miles per year

20 mpg=$3/gal

Commercial Insurance $5400/yr

Scheduled Maintenance 
Oil. $500/yr
Other fluid changes. (Cooling, transmission and brakes),and new plugs at 150000 miles; about $1000; brakes every year at $400/yr, tires (used) two seta a year $400

Unscheduled repairs budgeted at $2000/ year (last year I spent nothing this year $1000 for new struts and $150 for headlight repair. So Im coming in at less than estimated

Do the math and here's what I get

Operating cost= 28 cents per mile 
Depreciation= 10 cents a mile 
Total cost = 38 cents a mile

Now I can use this number against my financial needs to decide whether to keep driving the way I am. Or cut costs by buying a cheaper more efficient car. Or increase income somehow. Or maybe give it up and start another business or just retire for good

The point is that our needs are all different and our incomes are all different and so are our expenses So far this works for me, but i am making some changes based on my first years experience

The op has given us a way to calculateone piece of


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

oldfart said:


> We are not talking about 1979 We are talking about today.


Yeah and that's the problem. Rideshare driver pay rates in 2019 are what taxi drivers were making 40 years ago.

In many parts of your state, uber drivers are paid LESS than 1976 taxi rates.



oldfart said:


> And in this thread we haven't been talking about income at all.


The OP is the one who quoted the $1.20 per mile earnings figure not me.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Jay Dean said:


> Using a car for Uber with 18k is like showing up to Mcdonalds wearing a suit, except at Mcdonalds your life can't be ruined or ruin many anothers lives by a car accident that gets you sued through your nose by people in crash or their family. I only drive at select times in my pos car because I would never risk anything of value or my life at these rates. What do you factor your hourly wage is and tell me how you feel about your risk factor in this what seems to be long adventure you have planned in each day you plan to drive to 200k at this. Have you budgeted lawyer fees for an accident? If you have an electrical issue in your battery car what is the worst case repair cost with that? Call them hidden costs, I call them reality. Every turn is a depreciation, driving in anything of value is about the worst decision anyone can make (highly debatable with most cars) considering the risks and depreciation. But if you have free time and like making small wages where at any turn could ruin your life financially or worse, this is the gig for you.


Nonsense.

Just because you're trying to minimize your vehicle expenses doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong.

I purchased a Nissan Altima with 15k miles on it specifically for use as a rideshare vehicle. Could I have purchased something cheaper? Sure. I could have continued to drive my old 2017 Sentra without the additional expense of another car, but I did it because the Sentra was uncomfortable and made driving more than 3-4 hrs a day absolutely miserable.

Are there liabilities? Yep, but those can be mitigated and minimized through proper corporate structuring and continued safe driving. The world isn't perfect, but life is too short to worry about shit. Sometimes you just need to do things because you want to, not because you have to. Repairs? Repairs are a necessary part of owning a vehicle, and not exclusive to rideshare. My cars are replaced every two years, so major repair costs are rare. (and if they happen, they're put on a company card and written off)

Minimize costs by shopping smart rather than shopping by price.


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## phoneguy (Apr 15, 2015)

The spreadsheet that I created and published is so that anyone can download it - put in your own numbers and actually see what you get.

Everyone is different - 
Pittsburgh has different rates on both time and mileage so you can't compare Pittsburgh and any other city

Gas price vary by state - I live 35 minute drive from Ohio. PA gas $3.159 and Ohio $2.699. If it wasn't 60 miles round drip, I would gas up there everyday and save some good money.

Every car is different - I started driving with a Hyundai Sonota at 27 MPG and going to the Cmax - I saved on average $200 a month just in gas. So again, put your numbers in and see what happens

Maintenance/Repair - you have to look at the differences in cars - I have driven Dodges (terrible cars), Kia (worst), Geo Metro (Good car and yes I am that old), Toyota Prius (Great car - 230k and only had to replace the shocks/Struts, and new brakes once). So go online and see if you can find a resource for average car repairs and put in your own numbers.

So use the sheet to see what you come up with - for me and my cMax - those number are pretty accurate - I have been driving for 4 year 9500 trips and I know what to budget for, I have a saving account so I can put some money aside for taxes, repairs, and misc. That is all part of being your own business, planning ahead. Making sure that you are covered when the repair bill comes.

So if you feel I missed something - like car washes, add some money to the Misc field and it will update all the need field to give you a good estimate of the cost. If you can do you own work - Brakes, shocks and so on, lower the cost a repairs (I did my own shocks and save $950 off of Firestone, and $300 when I did the brakes and replace the caliper myself). Some dealships offer free inspection and oil changes for life, buy the car there.

I do wish we had just one set of number that would work for anyone but we don't and the government $.58 per mile estimate is based on the average car on the road, look around, how many people drive SUVs and trucks, they are part of the government average, be smart if you drive Uber, get a hybrid and save some major money. (example - there is an uber in Pittsburgh and drives a Dodge Ram extended cab pickup, he gets 12 MPG, I have picked up passengers and they have told me they have rode with him and it makes no since. (his cost per miles goes up to $0.556 just by changing the MPG, if you add tires in and other cost - he is loosing money)


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Yeah and that's the problem. Rideshare driver pay rates in 2019 are what taxi drivers were making 40 years ago.
> 
> In many parts of your state, uber drivers are paid LESS than 1976 taxi rates.
> 
> The OP is the one who quoted the $1.20 per mile earnings figure not me.


It's not a problem for me

if rideshare doesn't work for you, don't do it. The rates may be 1976 rates but it works for me in 2019. (Maybe it's because my house payment is cheaper now than it was 1976)

The point is each of has to do their own analysis. As the op said , "your numbers may be different." And I would add that goes to both expenses and income needs, and there's this. I calculated Depreciation but depreciation isn't a thing for me. It's a second car and when it's time to retire it, I'll retire too


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## Ylinks (Apr 22, 2019)

Standard mileage deduction: $0.58/mile

Typical Uber Pay: $0.60 per mile and $0.15 per minute.

Assume: Average speed 35 MPH.

Pay per Mile Equals: $0.86

Dead Miles: Drive 1.5 miles for every paid mile.

Deduction: $0.87 for every paid mile.

You should pay no taxes driving for Uber in most markets.


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## LuxCarSpy (Jan 25, 2019)

Everyone has their own numbers as that's fine. Iwoukdencourage people to think about costs if they had to pay an employee to drive their car. How would the numbers look? 
My point - uber has all this value and it's the drivers that are actually taking the risk and buying the cars that are used to perform the service. Every cost analysis should include a 20% to 25% investment/risk return on the vehicle. The same type of calculation you would make if buying a tool or machine for a business - this invest/risk return is then added to your op costs. 
Think of it as an investment your making. Would you want a return on the investment 
Also most people don't drive cars all the useful miles - they usually trade for something newer - my point is the cost per mile is not linear (same throughout) during car life . Depreciation amount is actually higher when the car is newer. Last point - most car dealers (and many consumers) view former Uber cars like people view former police cars - and they have less value compared to non-uber cars. This all means some of the biggest car expenses are being over looked and many drivers don't consider the true cost of driving - 
Think of this - if Uber had to buy the cars for 1.1million drivers, run them for 5 years until nearly dead they would have to spend $37 Billion on cars - FYI that is over half of Uber's Wall Street market valuation -

!! They effectively had drivers buy the cars and invest and then got Wall Street to pay them for the cars !! Drivers got nothing for their investment risk in the cars.



Ylinks said:


> Standard mileage deduction: $0.58/mile
> 
> Typical Uber Pay: $0.60 per mile and $0.15 per minute.
> 
> ...


Average speed should be average car travels during hour - includes traffic stops (lights signs etc), picking up riders etc - although I have metro experience I think 35mph is high - some cars have average mpg and mph Gauges - if so check it



Ylinks said:


> Standard mileage deduction: $0.58/mile
> 
> Typical Uber Pay:  $0.60 per mile and $0.15 per minute.
> 
> ...


I am referring to the federal self employment taxes (social security Medicare etc) - it's federal not a state thing


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## dragnet (Oct 14, 2018)

Ylinks said:


> Standard mileage deduction: $0.58/mile
> 
> Typical Uber Pay: $0.60 per mile and $0.15 per minute.
> 
> ...


Uber Pay: Correct
Average speed: Incorrect
Pay per mile: Incorrect
Deadheading: Incorrect

You're mostly just making up numbers here. I would suggest you invest some time in actually writing down your actual numbers and seeing what the correct answers are.


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

dragnet said:


> Alternatively, I can send you this sheet and you can plug in your own numbers (just note, this isn't Excel. I use Apple Numbers.)


I am interested in downloading your spreadsheet, but not interested in providing my email address. Would you be willing to drop the file into an online sharing website and post the download link? Here's one that's easy to work with: https://filebin.net/
Or eight other anonymous upload websites that don't require registration, according to these guys: https://merabheja.com/anonymous-file-sharing/


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## Ylinks (Apr 22, 2019)

dragnet said:


> Uber Pay: Correct
> Average speed: Incorrect
> Pay per mile: Incorrect
> Deadheading: Incorrect
> ...


If you agree that Uber Pay is Correct. Then:
If you only averaged 20 MPH with 0 dead miles. You would be paid $1.05 per mile. 
[ ($0.15/ min X 3min/mile = $0.45) + ( $0.60/mile) = $1.05 per mile ]
Take the $0.58 Standard Deduction. You would still only be taxed on $0.47 per mile.
(Even in NYC drivers average 30% dead miles)

You are claiming to make $1.30 per mile (unrealistic in most markets), I think this is the problem:










Even this is still extremely optimistic.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Pulling in $1.20 per mile in San Francisco? Congrats. Taxis were pulling in $1.20 per mile in 1979.
> 
> Many major markets including Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Cleveland, Dallas, Miami, etc. are pulling in LESS than $1.00 per mile.


I love how you keep bringing this up in so many different threads, get over it times change, some for the better some for the worst. It is pretty simple if you are not happy with the rates don't do it. If others are happy with the rates fine Uber on.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the OP's figures are pretty accurate for an estimate. They fall in line with my real life experience over the last 4 cars I have owned. Even before rideshare was a dream I have been tracking what it cost me to operate my vehicles per mile. That number is dynamic and changes up and down over time.

Only estimates can be made until as some one said you dispose of a car. At that point if you have accurate record keeping you can determine how much your car really cost you per mile.

Day of the week your car was assembled, Day of the week key parts were made, driving habits, driving conditions, regional areas, etc all have influence on the real costs of operating your car. None of these can be predicted 100%

Personally I don't care about hourly income, I care about revenue per mile driven. Revenue per mile driven vs cost per mile driven is how I know if doing rideshare is worth it. I don't factor in my time, if I don't have the spare time to drive, I don't drive.


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## tmart (Oct 30, 2016)

LOL full time Uber drivers may need tires twice a year that's $800 a year just for tires


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## begood (May 16, 2019)

dragnet said:


> Seeing that this is an issue that keeps coming up, I did a quick and dirty spreadsheet to calculate basic operating costs. This one is for my 2015 Prius C. If anyone is interested, post your numbers and I'll plug them into the sheet and post it for you. Alternatively, I can send you this sheet and you can plug in your own numbers (just note, this isn't Excel. I use Apple Numbers.)
> 
> View attachment 319780
> 
> ...


Nice work! I have a Mac can you please send this spreadsheet? Thank you!


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

tmart said:


> LOL full time Uber drivers may need tires twice a year that's $800 a year just for tires


I'm on my second set of tires this year and it's only May. I will almost certainly need a third.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

Ylinks said:


> If you agree that Uber Pay is Correct. Then:
> If you only averaged 20 MPH with 0 dead miles. You would be paid $1.05 per mile.
> [ ($0.15/ min X 3min/mile = $0.45) + ( $0.60/mile) = $1.05 per mile ]
> Take the $0.58 Standard Deduction. You would still only be taxed on $0.47 per mile.
> ...


That particular chart is showing his taxed vs. un-taxed income.

He didn't add his OP costs to income, he subtracted them. His gross earnings (per mile rate + per mim rate + quests + CRB + tips, etc...) are 1.30/mi.

He was showing that of the .58 IRS deduction, he's only actually using .218 for OP costs.

The remainder, .362, is earned income but not taxed on aka "tax free".

His total taxable income per mile is .72

Yes, as he's repeatedly said, based on your vehicle and region, YMMV.

For example, I gross over $2/mi and my OP costs are .388


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## Dammit Mazzacane (Dec 31, 2015)

dragnet said:


> Uber


OK, I'm so curious that I'll post my figures if you're willing to run the numbers:

Op. cost/Per mile-
Depreciation: ?calculated
Fuel cost: ?calculated
Insurance: ?calculated
Maint.: ?calculated
Repairs: ?calculated

Insurance cost, monthly, for this car incl. rideshare endorsement: $1,101 / 12 = $91.75
Avg. Miles driven/month: 1,400 , of which on avg. 600 is rideshare

Depreciation:
Veh. value: approx. $5,000
Remaining usable: 75,000 miles

Maint.
Avg. repair/month: $30 (prorated off of your figures)
Avg. Miles driven/month: 1,400 , of which 600 is rideshare

Fuel:
Avg. MPG: 31
Avg. fuel/gallon: $3.50

Repair: 
Avg. repair/month: $30 (prorated off of your figures)
Avg. Miles driven/month: 1,400 , of which 600 is rideshare

For narrative, my typical net earnings on rideshare consistently average out to $1.00 / mile including deadhead mileage but excluding operating costs. It's one reason why I'm very interested in seeing the operating costs.


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

dragnet said:


> Seeing that this is an issue that keeps coming up, I did a quick and dirty spreadsheet to calculate basic operating costs. This one is for my 2015 Prius C. If anyone is interested, post your numbers and I'll plug them into the sheet and post it for you. Alternatively, I can send you this sheet and you can plug in your own numbers (just note, this isn't Excel. I use Apple Numbers.)
> 
> View attachment 319780
> 
> ...


Great job sharing this Joe. And I think a lot of your numbers seem "reasonable" and are close to my own estimates and calculations. Although I don't include insurance with my estimates as my premiums are fixed regardless if I drive or not.... Do you include car washes in your maintenance figure? May be less than $30 a month but I wouldn't have that if I wasn't driving.


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## LuxCarSpy (Jan 25, 2019)

IRS deduct $.545 in2018 $.58 in 2019
Uber per mile varies by $.25 to $.35 by location (higher or lower than average) 
Uber time pay varies by 50% just a few miles away. Seriously cross a bridge to make $5 plus more per hour.

Nobody here considers the investment return on your vehicle ? Why


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## HeyJoe (Jun 12, 2015)

So here comes the peanut gallery. Me! I think it's pretty smart and nice of you to show how to estimate and computer your numbers. I'm not here to know you numbers at all. As a matter of fact I use Excell spread sheet and depreciate my SUV over 3.5 years max. I also buy my vehicle new but then I'm in a completely different aspect of UBER. Black and SUV. Which requires cars to be newer and of course higher cost.
I do a mix of Uber and private but then to do Uber Black, one has to be a Limo driver first. It's a requirement. Hack license, medallion, business and commercial insurance. A lot of folks don't get that it is possible to run a good business model including Uber as a part of it.
I'm always impressed with those who continue to have a positive drive in the face of rapid and mean-spirited replies that just flat out dump on you for making any type of positive statement on driving Uber X. When it comes time for me to stop doing the Private Commercial driving, it's quite possible that I'll be out there occasionally doing the X thing. I believe it's right for the part timers who can wait it out without searching for the surge/drunks. 
Keep at it Dragnet and thanks for sharing.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

Scott.Sul said:


> I don't include insurance with my estimates as my premiums are fixed regardless if I drive or not...


You still need to include it.

As he said...

This is to calculate your operating costs, NOT your rideshare costs.

Your costs per mile are the same, and something everyone - rideshare driver or not - needs to know.


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## Uberate (Dec 29, 2018)

dragnet said:


> Seeing that this is an issue that keeps coming up, I did a quick and dirty spreadsheet to calculate basic operating costs. This one is for my 2015 Prius C. If anyone is interested, post your numbers and I'll plug them into the sheet and post it for you. Alternatively, I can send you this sheet and you can plug in your own numbers (just note, this isn't Excel. I use Apple Numbers.)
> 
> View attachment 319780
> 
> ...


You need to include tax rates and the difference in tax amounts between the taxable incomes and then subtract that number from depreciation. And depreciation should be calculated based on resale value and condition at change in mileage. Most drivers don't make enough for it to pay them back depreciation. Again it is just a clever way for these companies to steal from the value of your car.


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## LuxCarSpy (Jan 25, 2019)

Yes so true - sadly most don’t realize they are only making $7-$8 a hour. Add insult to injury Uber is testing a stupid points type program. It is just a way for uber to use points as a surrogate for cash and shuffle the points between the part and full timers.


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## TXUbering (May 9, 2018)

Declineathon said:


> How can i obtain this sharp looking display?


Buy a Sharp TV?


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## phoneguy (Apr 15, 2015)

Dammit Mazzacane said:


> I am interested in downloading your spreadsheet, but not interested in providing my email address. Would you be willing to drop the file into an online sharing website and post the download link? Here's one that's easy to work with: https://filebin.net/
> Or eight other anonymous upload websites that don't require registration, according to these guys: https://merabheja.com/anonymous-file-sharing/


Download the ZIP file that is attached to the other post - it is the Excel file zipped up. They won't let you post a excel file but a zip is OK.

Don't understand it but you can just download it from here. If you are worried about virus or malware, don't be. I work in IT and keep all my systems updated and patched, I have Norton Enterprise running it runs a full scan every night. So it is safe. (I know saying this doesn't bring much comfort to some but those are my practices to be safe while online)


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## Scott.Sul (Sep 9, 2015)

KenLV said:


> You still need to include it.
> As he said...
> This is to calculate your operating costs, NOT your rideshare costs.
> Your costs per mile are the same, and something everyone - rideshare driver or not - needs to know.


Who GAF about operating costs of a car... unless you use your car for business. Over 40 years of driving and this was never a concern. 
If someone is using their primary vehicle for rideshare, AND rideshare is not their primary source of income, they don't have to include insurance in their per-mile cost calculation. They would incur that cost whether or not they rideshare and putting on more miles does not alter that amount.

I include it now as the vehicle I use was kept just for rideshare. It is basically worthless to me now (bought it new nine years ago) and only use it for weekend rideshare. That few hundred $ extra per year insurance needs to be included as that is now an extra expense due to rideshare.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

Scott.Sul said:


> Who GAF about operating costs of a car...


 Who would want to know how much it costs to own their second largest asset?

Gee, I wonder?

Here....Not only who, but why...

https://www.bing.com/search?q=car+ownership+cost&PC=U316&FORM=CHROMN


Scott.Sul said:


> They would incur that cost whether or not they rideshare and *putting on more miles does not alter that amount.*


 Not true.


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## Ylinks (Apr 22, 2019)

KenLV said:


> For example, I gross over $2/mi and my OP costs are .388


Let's not include "quests + CRB + tips, etc " because there are hundreds of threads here that say they are not a significant source of income for most drivers. Let's just take the typical Uber pay scale of $0.60/mile and $0.15/min. My argument is that a decent Uber driver's tax liability should be minimal given the standard deduction of $0.58/mile. 
Here's why:
*Given a pay scale that favors miles driven over time spent by a 4:1 ratio* *the more a driver makes per mile the less a driver makes per hour.*
At $0.60/mile and $0.15/min a driver would have to spend 9 mins and 20 seconds driving a mile to make $2.00. This yields a max hourly income of $12.80. The theoretical maximum of 60 miles driven in 60 minutes yields an income of $0.75 per mile and an hourly income of $45.00. 
Hopefully most drivers can get enough high speed trips to keep their income below $1.00 per mile. Add in some dead miles, take the standard mileage deduction and cell phone costs and you can be very close to break-even for tax purposes.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

They only people averages matter to are people thinking about doing this who don't know anything yet.

For active drivers like us, what matters is *our* numbers, and, as had been repeatedly stated...YMMV. That's why you plug in *your *numbers.

This goes for earnings *and* expenses.

I'm not going to disregard my full average earnings because someone else earns less on average.

Likewise, I'm going to use my actual cost to operate and not someone else's who pays more/less to operate their vehicle.

This is why you plug in your numbers, not the average among drivers, to see what works for you.

When I did X, I averaged $1.20/mi in a car that cost .27 to operate. But those numbers, like per mile earnings and operating cost of *other* drivers, don't matter to me now.

What matters is what it costs me today and what I earn today.

I really don't care what someone who will drive 10 minutes for a base rate X ride earns per mile. Likewise, I don't care what it costs the idiot driving a full size pickup picking up pool rides at the airport.

This calculation (operations costs) is just one part of the bigger equation. But in order for it to be of value, it has to reflect what it costs you, not the average driver.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

According to IRS is 59cents pmile. So drivers who do trips for 62cents only making 3cents. Doesn’t even pay for fuel. 
Keep taking those rides.


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

No Prisoners said:


> According to IRS is 59cents pmile. So drivers who do trips for 62cents only making 3cents. Doesn't even pay for fuel.
> Keep taking those rides.


The IRS rate is not applicable to the vast majority of drivers.

Most vehicles cost more or less per mile than that deduction.


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## JaredJ (Aug 7, 2015)

in the not-so-great city of Houston you can catch lifted pick up trucks driving Uber X. If they loved their math as much as their 2A, they'd see alternative employment.


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

According to IRS is 59cents pmile. So drivers who do trips for 62cents only making 3cents. Doesn’t even pay for fuel. 
Keep taking those rides.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

No Prisoners said:


> According to IRS is 59cents pmile. So drivers who do trips for 62cents only making 3cents. Doesn't even pay for fuel.
> Keep taking those rides.


That's not how it works.

That's not how any of this works.

Also, for 2019 it's .58/mi



Matt Uterak said:


> The IRS rate is not applicable to the vast majority of drivers.
> 
> Most vehicles cost more or less per mile than that deduction.


 The exact opposite is true.

Unless you're doing itemized deductions (which only makes sense for certain drivers/vehicles) the standard deduction is applicable to the vast majority of drivers.


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

KenLV said:


> Unless you're doing itemized deductions (which only makes sense for certain drivers/vehicles) the standard deduction is applicable to the vast majority of drivers.


I think you misunderstand me.

My point: Most vehicles will not cost .58/mile to operate. Some more, some less. The deduction is available to use for everyone, but using it to calculate mileage cost is foolish.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

Matt Uterak said:


> I think you misunderstand me.
> 
> My point: Most vehicles will not cost .58/mile to operate. Some more, some less. The deduction is available to use for everyone, but using it to calculate mileage cost is foolish.


I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone, at least not in this thread, was using it to calculate operating costs.

It was being used to determine taxable income only.


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## Matt Uterak (Jul 28, 2015)

KenLV said:


> I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone, at least not in this thread, was using it to calculate operating costs.
> 
> It was being used to determine taxable income only.


 The post above mine from No Prisoners makes that claim.

You quoted him too.


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## PaxiCab (Feb 14, 2019)

Trafficat said:


> I'm on my second set of tires this year and it's only May. I will almost certainly need a third.


How many hours do you drive a week????


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## No Prisoners (Mar 21, 2019)

KenLV said:


> That's not how it works.
> 
> That's not how any of this works.
> 
> ...


OK you got extra penny. Doesn't matter how you calculate expenses you losing money. Don't even take into consideration time value. It's selling your time and asset at a loss.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

No Prisoners said:


> OK you got extra penny. Doesn't matter how you calculate expenses you losing money. Don't even take into consideration time value. It's selling your time and asset at a loss.


No, as I said, that's not how it works.

The .58 is your deduction, not your cost to operate.

If you don't understand that basic accounting detail, then yeah, you probably are losing money driving.


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

PaxiCab said:


> How many hours do you drive a week????


I think the winter driving conditions were especially hard on my tires.

How many hours do I drive per week? Depends on the week, but on one recent non-Strike week, Uber said 89 hr 50 min, not counting Lyft, Grubhub, etc. I may have been napping with the app on during some of those hours, though.

I have driven around 500 miles in the last 24 hours, but more typically I am only doing 200-300 miles per day.


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## JustPayMe (Sep 26, 2015)

and another Uber Fool that wants to try to get you to destroy your car for nothing 

Man can we please get rid of these Uber Trolls


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## Cape67 (May 17, 2016)

I asked a well known mechanic with 50 years repair experience and a high traffic Youtube Channel (Scotty) what he thought an "average" cost would be to operate a car (average being between a low cost Pruis or EV to a high cost Lincoln Town Car) and his answer was "25cents/mile on average." I have the link to the discussion if anybody wants to see it.


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## KenLV (Jun 23, 2017)

Cape67 said:


> I asked a well known mechanic with 50 years repair experience and a high traffic Youtube Channel (Scotty) what he thought an "average" cost would be to operate a car (average being between a low cost Pruis or EV to a high cost Lincoln Town Car) and his answer was "25cents/mile on average." I have the link to the discussion if anybody wants to see it.


Seems really low.

I remember talking about this on the forums last year and AAA found a NEW car cost on average $0.58/mi. to own/operate.

Obviously new has an insane amount of depreciation that a few year old car, or even a 1 or 2 year old car, has way less of. But even reducing the depreciation and loan costs, I can't see it getting that low.

Even a few year old vehicle bought for cash, while not having a loan cost, will still have depreciation.

I'd be interested in seeing the discussion.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Cape67 said:


> I asked a well known mechanic with 50 years repair experience and a high traffic Youtube Channel (Scotty) what he thought an "average" cost would be to operate a car (average being between a low cost Pruis or EV to a high cost Lincoln Town Car) and his answer was "25cents/mile on average." I have the link to the discussion if anybody wants to see it.


I think that 25¢ per mile is pretty close without including cost of insurance. Add cost of insurance and I think that number is pretty darn close.


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## McGarnagle (May 23, 2019)

Jay Dean said:


> Using a car for Uber with 18k is like showing up to Mcdonalds wearing a suit, except at Mcdonalds your life can't be ruined or ruin many anothers lives by a car accident that gets you sued through your nose by people in crash or their family. I only drive at select times in my pos car because I would never risk anything of value or my life at these rates. What do you factor your hourly wage is and tell me how you feel about your risk factor in this what seems to be long adventure you have planned in each day you plan to drive to 200k at this. Have you budgeted lawyer fees for an accident? If you have an electrical issue in your battery car what is the worst case repair cost with that? Call them hidden costs, I call them reality. Every turn is a depreciation, driving in anything of value is about the worst decision anyone can make (highly debatable with most cars) considering the risks and depreciation. But if you have free time and like making small wages where at any turn could ruin your life financially or worse, this is the gig for you.


If you have insurance you don't need lawyer fees for an accident unless it goes over you maximum (in other words you hit a ferrari or you put a doctor out of work for a year).

All I can say is you have had some shit cars if you are assured of having electrical, trans, power steering, etc problems.

As for depreciation, yeah, drive an older car and assume it will be worth nothing when you done (typically when you get hit with that big problem that costs more to repair than the car itself).

As for me I do much of my own work so I can save on most repairs and maintenance.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Chipped windshield, size of a quarter 

Number of times fixed in the last 12 months ....100 times 
Total cost 1 million$


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## My3centsSuperbowl (May 20, 2019)

Nathan Forrest said:


> You are destroying your cars
> for pennies


Spot on!!!! Best Comment on this thread!! Well I haven't read nearly all of them yet. But so far this is the most accurate.


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