# Economically challenged delivery drivers unionize themselves out of their jobs



## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

*Foodora, a competitor to UberEats & DoorDash, is leaving the Canadian Market after some economically challenged delivery drivers decides to unionize and won court battle*. If this legal precedence force Uber & DoorDash workers to be unionized as well, they are likely to withdraw from the market as well.

*These drivers literally have no understanding of how labor economy works*. Look, I understand where the workers are coming from but Image your Foodora, already operating in a highly competitive environment where you and everyone else is already operating at a loss/negative margin, now suddenly forced into a MASSIVE competitive disadvantage (as this ruling does not apply to UberEats & DoorDash yet) in labor cost that effectively force you out of the market.

The crux of the matter is,* the majority of consumers that allows these accessible and large quantity of jobs to exist aren't going to pay $10-20 to have their lunch delivered, period*. If these gig companies (who are already losing money) are forced to arbitrarily pay higher compensation, then they have to pass these cost down to the consumers. With the lack of mass demand for this luxury type of service, there will be a severe drought of orders - meaning effectively MASS LAYOFFS, which further reduce reliability of service --> further reduction of demand/less work --> more layoffs, a viscous loop.

*Instead of finding work where they are compensated well with their skill-set or work to acquire highly sought after skills, they rather bite the hand away that feeds them and others in similar position then complain about no opportunity/unemployment. 

Remember RATIONAL THINKING > EMOTION. You can not emotion away the laws of economics.*


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

AveragePerson said:


> *Foodora, a competitor to UberEats & DoorDash, is leaving the Canadian Market after some economically challenged delivery drivers decides to unionize and won court battle*. If this legal precedence force Uber & DoorDash workers to be unionized as well, they are likely to withdraw from the market as well.
> 
> *These drivers literally have no understanding of how labor economy works*. Look, I understand where the workers are coming from but Image your Foodora, already operating in a highly competitive environment where you and everyone else is already operating at a loss/negative margin, now suddenly forced into a MASSIVE competitive disadvantage (as this ruling does not apply to UberEats & DoorDash yet) in labor cost that effectively force you out of the market.
> 
> ...


Actually, the only thing any of these companies ever had to do was restrict the number of people that could be on at any given time.
This would automatically increase the hourly income for the ICs.

But, it also means that they wouldn't be able to expand as fast as they did.

But, hey, why would you want to just be the best service with the happiest people doing the work? How would that make a great experience for the customers getting to pay the same amount per delivery but getting great service from people that don't feel stepped on.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

BEST THREAD TITLE EVER !!!

My wife is unionized, and has paid some $2000 a year since 2003 in union dues. In the last 5 years there have been no pay raises or other concessions of any kind given to health care workers in our province. FWIW her wages are also comparable with the private sector because they have to be. Honestly, if someone asked me to rationally try to remember the last time she got a raise or cost of living benefit of some kind, I'd have to say I couldn't. I've been unionized too, and what is in the OP's post isn't fake. Unions are a lose, lose, for the jobby job folks.

Foodora decided to stop operating last week as well. They are shutting down in less than 2 weeks time.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

AveragePerson said:


> The crux of the matter is,* the majority of consumers that allows these accessible and large quantity of jobs to exist aren't going to pay $10-20 to have their lunch delivered, period*.


Exactly. You hit the nail on the head. How much profit can there be in delivering a burrito and a drink? There just isn't enough money in the delivery charges for the delivery companies to make a profit _and_ for the delivery workers to be paid fairly. As they say on Shark Tank and Dragon's Den, "Sorry, I just don't see that you have a viable business".


> Foodora, already operating in a highly competitive environment where you and everyone else is already operating at a loss/negative margin


Again, nail on head. These companies are not profitable, even when they exploit their workers. It's just not a business. They should go back to the drawing board and see if they can make it work so that they make a profit and the workers are compensated fairly. If not, then it is indeed time to close up shop.

Uber makes similar claims in the US. "But if we were forced to treat our workers as employees and pay the vehicle costs for ferrying our passengers around then we'd be out of business!", they cry. Well, maybe they should not be in business in that case, if their revenues don't cover their expenses. That's not a viable business. Let Uber fold - someone will be along who will build a better, more efficient mouse trap and make it work.


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Imagine paying $15 delivery fee and tip for an $8 sandwich order. Just, LOL!

:laugh:


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Can imagine 15$ delivery fee 🙂
1.5miles, something like single sandwich or ice cream.


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## Jst1dreamr (Apr 25, 2019)

I am retired from the electricians union and I can say that when I started 30 years ago the union was great but in the past 15 yerars the only thing the union has done was suck money out of our pay checks and then on top of that we also pay dues to the local unions but they made sure we got paid very well since the more we made the more they made. In the ride share industry we will never see the great pay by unionizing but we would also not be treated like shit by companies like uber and lyft and they would not deactivate us without proof.
I guess what I am saying is that there is good and bad to unionizing but we would never achieve a good living wage by unionizing and we woulld likely have to give up our freedoms for very little benifit. Look at the _Service Employees International Union_ (_SEIU_)
their workers mostly have to work two or three jobs to make ends meet but the union reps are living fat. That is how I think it would be for rideshare also.
Take it for what it is worth but me personally, I don't want to be unionized for the little benifit I would see in return.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

AveragePerson said:


> *Foodora, a competitor to UberEats & DoorDash, is leaving the Canadian Market after some economically challenged delivery drivers decides to unionize and won court battle*. If this legal precedence force Uber & DoorDash workers to be unionized as well, they are likely to withdraw from the market as well.
> 
> *These drivers literally have no understanding of how labor economy works*. Look, I understand where the workers are coming from but Image your Foodora, already operating in a highly competitive environment where you and everyone else is already operating at a loss/negative margin, now suddenly forced into a MASSIVE competitive disadvantage (as this ruling does not apply to UberEats & DoorDash yet) in labor cost that effectively force you out of the market.
> 
> ...


First of all, has it been proven they were operating at a loss before union ruling?

The next question would be why were they losing money. Prices too low? Corporate salaries too high? Stretching themselves too thin with overexpansion, etc?

Let's say they were operating at a loss. That wouldn't stop the owners of the business from paying themselves large salaries until their creditors put them out of business, and it's possible that's what was occuring at that company.

Years ago I did a little delivery work at various small companies that used alleged ICs. It didn't take me long to figure out how those businesses operated. The owners lived in large expensive homes while most of their drivers lived in poverty and the turnover rate was massive.

It can tell you that the companies I drove for had very little overhead. The vast majority of the overhead was paid for by the drivers. They had so little overhead that even if their client base dried up (and some did), they could simply close the doors and walk away with little to no legitimate debt. When I say legitimate, I mean the owners not giving themselves a big fat goodbye present by stiffing their drivers, landlords, suppliers, and vendors on their way out the door.

The drivers took a gamble and lost, but if that company is like the shitty "gig" companies here in the US, they were probably so fed up with being exploited that they felt it was worth a shot to go for unionization.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

AveragePerson said:


> If these..........companies............are forced to......... pay higher compensation, then they have to pass these cost down to the consumers.


..............and your complaint is___________________________________________________________?



ColdRider said:


> Imagine paying $15 delivery fee and tip for an $8 sandwich order. Just, LOL!


Half of these F*ub*a*r* Ch*eats* orders from Icky-D's _must_ be something similar to this. Not only does it amaze me that someone would pay for that, it amazes me that Icky-D's makes any money on that, when you consider that F*ub*a*r* takes thirty per-cent of the order value.



Jst1dreamr said:


> electricians union and I can say that when I started 30 years ago the union was great but in the past 15 yerars the only thing the union has done was suck money out of our pay checks and then on top of that we also pay dues to the local unions


I am hearing this from more than a few long time union workers. Not all of it is the fault of the unions. Some of it is the fault of the companies. The air lines are one such business. Many years past, the union workers agreed to give backs to save the air lines. Once the air lines returned to profitability, the unions wanted their benefits and pay restored. The air lines balked.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Ubereats and other delivery companies will take over those restaurant accounts. Drivers will deliver for them.

With the court ruling the other delivery companies are in drivers crosshairs.

Foodora may be gone but you can be sure drivers won't give up.


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## Jst1dreamr (Apr 25, 2019)

The way I see it is that the lazy ass people growing up today are never going to do something themselves if all it takes is money to get someone else to do it for them so raise the price and although they will whine alot they will still pay the price to have it done for them.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

I’m going to say something here.

The Disney union of Florida?

$12.00 an hour currently.

bad pay?

min wage in Florida is 8.46

Unions increase pay for sure. It’s just really hard to put a finger on how because it’s kinda nebulous. Without the union it’s easy to see many many of those Jobs as straight min wage.

If these businesses arnt economical maybe these delivery drivers would be better off as wait staff (the gender neutral for waitress) or bus boys or something.

it’s my personal belief that once these gigs are paying fairly your going to see massive cutbacks in work force (If not the business dying like the above)

bite the hand that feeds you?

well..,

I hate to use the child labor argument but I’m going to.

it’s better to put a few people out o a job than to let one employer get away with it.

Another possibility is that the restaraunts can start in house delivery service and actually employ drivers themselves like pizza places have been doing for decades. Cut the middle man out and just issue w2s to their drivers.

I think we would all be better off as delivery drivers for McDonald’s or Taco Bell then for Uber eats.


if I can get a $15.00 pizza delivered and Papa johns can make it economical then I’m pretty sure $15.00 fast food order getting delivered could be economical somehow to.

In house delivery is going to be the future here.

In house staff deliveries....


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## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I'm going to say something here.
> 
> bite the hand that feeds you? well.., I hate to use the child labor argument but I'm going to.
> it's better to put a few people out o a job than to let one employer get away with it.


I don't see what i said relates in anyway to child labor but I want to point something out.

Your post is an example of what I meant by *rational thinking > emotional thinking*.

*Intuitively we feel that child labor is bad (Gotta protect the kids right?!), therefore just eliminating it as an possibility must be a good solution right? Wrong. Very wrong.

Why?* Because in this day and age, the vast majority of kids working is not because someone putting a gun to their head and forcing them to work but because of poverty and economic reasons. They are doing it to feed themselves and their family.The fact that they are doing what they are doing meant that* it was their best available option*. *Eliminating their best available option without a better substitute is nothing sort of barbaric, selfish* to get that 'feel good dopamine' that does the kids (in your example)* more harm than good,* without consideration of the whole picture. That means they now have to resort to a option that is worse than their original employment. *Artificially forcing higher pay without the economic reality to support it, leading to the eliminating of their job entirely without a better alternative does precisely that.

Think about it.*


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

The only thing that turned the taxi business into a profitable one (before ride share apps) was government regulation restricting the number of drivers and setting the prices. Before that, cars were everywhere competing on price. Traffic was terrible and no one made any money.


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## Zebonkey (Feb 2, 2016)

ColdRider said:


> Imagine paying $15 delivery fee and tip for an $8 sandwich order. Just, LOL!


I can. That's how it should be.
You can't pay - drag your broke ass to the restaurant.
McDonald's delivery is plain ridiculous. Go and get your disgusting food your damn self. 
Who the **** orders this crap for delivery anyway? 
Try ordering a dime-bag of blow for delivery. Your friendly drug dealer will tell you to go and **** yourself.
It's an eight-ball or that self-pleasuring journey. 
You can't pay? - Beat it!


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Zebonkey said:


> McDonald's delivery is plain ridiculous. Go and get your disgusting food your damn self.


Whatev.... I've made $5 off taking 4 sodas across the street.... easy money :roflmao: &#128184; &#128176;


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

AveragePerson said:


> I don't see what i said relates in anyway to child labor but I want to point something out.
> 
> Your post is an example of what I meant by *rational thinking > emotional thinking*.
> 
> ...


There is a far better solution to child labor.

Let's assume little Timmy is a Widget adjuster in the Toyota factory in Georgia. he got the job because of his small hands (the actual justification for child labor in the past by the way)

His family is dirt poor and his mom has 2 jobs and his dad is a deadbeat day drunk. I can picture this scenario already in 'Merica.

There's 2 solutions to Timmy's problem.

1. Allow child labor to continue
2. Increased social services for the poor, food stamps (Better food and more food left over) housing assistance for the poor, ect.

Both scenarios keep Timmy's family from starving. One has a far great chance of Timmy getting his hand cut off in the machinery in the Factory.

Timmy working in the Toyota factory is a SYMPTOM of the actual problems here, not the cause. Reality is that the sub minimum wage pay is the problem here, not the symptom you are correct in that regard.

A direct effect of ending child labor?

Well if the Toyota Factory lays off all it's child employees, they have to hire adults to do the same job. News flash... where child labor existed (and still exists) children get paid way less to work then they can get away paying adults for. Because that's the way the world works.

Fire all the children (Sub minimum wage independent contractors) and hire adult employees for more money.

The same change results, that's why i make the comparison. Getting rid of child employees increases labor and final product cost, just like getting rid of independent contractors will cause.


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## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> There is a far better solution to child labor.
> 
> There's 2 solutions to Timmy's problem.
> 
> ...


If solution 2 works to the extend it needs then there is no need to disallow solution 1, as there would no longer be any rational need. In addition, solution 2 is feeding people the fish, not teaching them how to fish.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

Ow well let dd and ue go out of business.
Today i see a dd order for 2.50 ! and i thought 3 was bad . I will not accept a order under 7 bucks and it better be under 4 miles .
uber lyft i know rideshare. there charging 3 times less then yellow cab. Why ???????
Why not charge the same ????? Take a stinky yellow cab or a clean uber your choice . The company will profit and the driver will make a good living . The passenger gets to there point b safely review the service as usual, too keep the service a plus. I might even wash my car weekly instead of every time it rains . From the rain that is .


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## ColdRider (Oct 19, 2015)

Zebonkey said:


> I can. That's how it should be.
> You can't pay - drag your broke ass to the restaurant.
> McDonald's delivery is plain ridiculous. Go and get your disgusting food your damn self.
> Who the @@@@ orders this crap for delivery anyway?
> ...


Lol, _broke ass_. Okay bro.

Lol, _McDonald's_.

It's called leveraging time. My time is limited so I don't mind paying a delivery fee and tip if the driver isn't a tool and expects me to walk out to his car and grab the order through his car window. I will admit though, I won't usually pay that much in delivery unless it's a bigger order for me and a few coworkers.


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## NoPool4Me (Apr 16, 2018)

AveragePerson said:


> *Foodora, a competitor to UberEats & DoorDash, is leaving the Canadian Market after some economically challenged delivery drivers decides to unionize and won court battle*. If this legal precedence force Uber & DoorDash workers to be unionized as well, they are likely to withdraw from the market as well.
> 
> *These drivers literally have no understanding of how labor economy works*. Look, I understand where the workers are coming from but Image your Foodora, already operating in a highly competitive environment where you and everyone else is already operating at a loss/negative margin, now suddenly forced into a MASSIVE competitive disadvantage (as this ruling does not apply to UberEats & DoorDash yet) in labor cost that effectively force you out of the market.
> 
> ...


Gig jobs aren't ones to even think about unionizing.



Jst1dreamr said:


> I am retired from the electricians union and I can say that when I started 30 years ago the union was great but in the past 15 yerars the only thing the union has done was suck money out of our pay checks and then on top of that we also pay dues to the local unions but they made sure we got paid very well since the more we made the more they made. In the ride share industry we will never see the great pay by unionizing but we would also not be treated like shit by companies like uber and lyft and they would not deactivate us without proof.
> I guess what I am saying is that there is good and bad to unionizing but we would never achieve a good living wage by unionizing and we woulld likely have to give up our freedoms for very little benifit. Look at the _Service Employees International Union_ (_SEIU_)
> their workers mostly have to work two or three jobs to make ends meet but the union reps are living fat. That is how I think it would be for rideshare also.
> Take it for what it is worth but me personally, I don't want to be unionized for the little benifit I would see in return.


I don't even want to be an employee... I love the flexibility of being an IC. I'm able to sit this mess out and restart on my own terms down the road.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

AveragePerson said:


> *rational thinking > emotional thinking*.......................*just eliminating it as an possibility must be a good solution right? Wrong. Very wrong. ......................Think about it.*


You have just demonstrated why "logic" is far too often a means of "proving" the absurd.



DriverMark said:


> I've made $5 off taking 4 sodas across the street


You would not have to work too hard to convince me of that.



ColdRider said:


> Lol, _broke ass_. Okay bro.


I suspect that he was directing that remark more at the troll than anyone.



ColdRider said:


> I don't mind paying a delivery fee and tip if the driver isn't a tool and expects me to walk out to his car and grab the order through his car window.


The problem is that far too many people do not tip. It is, at times, difficult to blame them, especially long time users. When they first started to use Uber Eats, the word was "tipping not necessary". At the same time, they were telling the drivers that they had to schlepp the order to the door. ....................for NO TIP? ....................R-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-GGGHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.................get right back to you on that...................................... As a result, I refused to sign up for it. Those who do run those jobs are jaded. For every tip that they did not receive, there were eight who would not have tipped even if the driver had schlepped the order up three flights of stairs.



ColdRider said:


> I won't usually pay that much in delivery unless it's a bigger order for me and a few coworkers.


This is the only time that it ever made any sense to me. Had I wanted to serve _hamberders_ to a large group, I might have paid a fee to have one hundred _hamberders _ delivered from Icky-D's. For a Big Mac™, medium fries and a large Coca-Cola®, the delivery fee _has to_ be more than the value of the order.

Similarly, if you are ordering from Outback for five or six, it makes sense. It makes no sense for one or two.


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## gotrocks (Dec 27, 2017)

Asificarewhatyoudontthink said:


> Actually, the only thing any of these companies ever had to do was restrict the number of people that could be on at any given time.
> This would automatically increase the hourly income for the ICs.
> 
> But, it also means that they wouldn't be able to expand as fast as they did.
> ...


^^^yes^^^ &#128077;


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## IRME4EVER (Feb 17, 2020)

ColdRider said:


> Imagine paying $15 delivery fee and tip for an $8 sandwich order. Just, LOL!
> 
> :laugh:


 I DID UBER EATS FOR AWHILE, GOT BURNT MANY TIMES. 
YOU ARE IN DRIVE THRU AT MC DONALDS BEHIND 10 CARS, CUSTOMER NOT EVEN A MILE AWAY, BUT I HAD TO DRIVE 15 MINUTES FOR THAT TRIP. I MADE 3.00 IN 45 MINUTES, WITH NO TIP. GAVE IT UP!! 
I HAD A LADY PX IN MY CAR, WE GOT TO TALKING ABOUT UBER EATS, SHE TOLD ME SHE ORDERED 2 SAUSAGE AND EGG MC MUFFINS (2 FOR 4.00), 2 HASH BROWNS, AND 2 OJ'S. SHOULD HAVE HER 10.00 MAX. HERE'S THE KICKER UBER EATS CHARGED HER 25.00.
I ASKED WHAT WAS HER DROP OFF DESTINATION, SHE SAID NOT EVEN A MILE WAY. 
I EXPLAINED TO HER, DRIVERS ARE GETTING SCREWED BIG TIME!! HAVING TO WAIT HAVING TO GO THROUGH DRIVE THRU, AND REGARDLESS OF CARS AHEAD OF YOU. US DRIVER'S DON'T GET PAID FOR THAT.
THAT DRIVER MADE LESS THAN 3.00 MORE THAN LIKELY NO TIP!!
BEEN THERE THAT'S WHY I NOT GOING BACK TO UBER EATS!! 
SCREW ME ONCE SHAME ON ME, SCREW ME TWICE SHAME ON YOU!!


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## NoPool4Me (Apr 16, 2018)

IRME4EVER said:


> I DID UBER EATS FOR AWHILE, GOT BURNT MANY TIMES.
> YOU ARE IN DRIVE THRU AT MC DONALDS BEHIND 10 CARS, CUSTOMER NOT EVEN A MILE AWAY, BUT I HAD TO DRIVE 15 MINUTES FOR THAT TRIP. I MADE 3.00 IN 45 MINUTES, WITH NO TIP. GAVE IT UP!!
> I HAD A LADY PX IN MY CAR, WE GOT TO TALKING ABOUT UBER EATS, SHE TOLD ME SHE ORDERED 2 SAUSAGE AND EGG MC MUFFINS (2 FOR 4.00), 2 HASH BROWNS, AND 2 OJ'S. SHOULD HAVE HER 10.00 MAX. HERE'S THE KICKER UBER EATS CHARGED HER 25.00.
> I ASKED WHAT WAS HER DROP OFF DESTINATION, SHE SAID NOT EVEN A MILE WAY.
> ...


Make a list of problem establishments and don't accept orders from them in the future. Not the entire chain, just the problematic ones.


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## Prawn Connery (Mar 26, 2020)

I'm starting to like @AveragePerson.

Uber drivers act the same as well. A lot of drivers are extremely entitled and act like they're doing some highly skilled job that only a select few can do. The reality is anyone with one arm, one leg and 1/3 of a brain can do it. Two arms and two legs give you an advantage so you can help load luggage hoping for a tip that you'll be stiffed on 90% of the time.


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## whatyoutalkinboutwillis (Jul 29, 2017)

AveragePerson said:


> I don't see what i said relates in anyway to child labor but I want to point something out.
> 
> Your post is an example of what I meant by *rational thinking > emotional thinking*.
> 
> ...


But isn't poverty and economic reasons a gun to the head?


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## NoPool4Me (Apr 16, 2018)

whatyoutalkinboutwillis said:


> But isn't poverty and economic reasons a gun to the head?


Kids need and should develop good work ethics. Poverty should be motivation to work and change ones circumstances. Nothing in life is easy unless you are one of the rare ones born into wealth. Little kids need to be taught that their most important job will be once they get into school. They need to learn as much as possible. That's how I talk to little ones.


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## whatyoutalkinboutwillis (Jul 29, 2017)

NoPool4Me said:


> Kids need and should develop good work ethics. Poverty should be motivation to work and change ones circumstances. Nothing in life is easy unless you are one of the rare ones born into wealth. Little kids need to be taught that their most important job will be once they get into school. They need to learn as much as possible. That's how I talk to little ones.


Yikes


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## NoPool4Me (Apr 16, 2018)

whatyoutalkinboutwillis said:


> Yikes


Consider what I was responding to.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

Jst1dreamr said:


> I am retired from the electricians union and I can say that when I started 30 years ago the union was great but in the past 15 yerars the only thing the union has done was suck money out of our pay checks and then on top of that we also pay dues to the local unions but they made sure we got paid very well since the more we made the more they made. In the ride share industry we will never see the great pay by unionizing but we would also not be treated like shit by companies like uber and lyft and they would not deactivate us without proof.
> I guess what I am saying is that there is good and bad to unionizing but we would never achieve a good living wage by unionizing and we woulld likely have to give up our freedoms for very little benifit. Look at the _Service Employees International Union_ (_SEIU_)
> their workers mostly have to work two or three jobs to make ends meet but the union reps are living fat. That is how I think it would be for rideshare also.
> Take it for what it is worth but me personally, I don't want to be unionized for the little benifit I would see in return.


SEIU is a fake union &#128530;


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## AveragePerson (May 18, 2018)

whatyoutalkinboutwillis said:


> But isn't poverty and economic reasons a gun to the head?


If it is, eliminating their job options while in poverty is the equivalent of pulling the trigger.


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## Uberdriver2710 (Jul 15, 2015)




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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

Spare me the melodrama about how it's impossible for companies like this to pay a livable wage.


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## whatyoutalkinboutwillis (Jul 29, 2017)

AveragePerson said:


> If it is, eliminating their job options while in poverty is the equivalent of pulling the trigger.


OR...working to eliminate the need for children to work altogether. It was good enough for the children of America, then surely it's good enough for the children of the world.


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## NoPool4Me (Apr 16, 2018)

whatyoutalkinboutwillis said:


> OR...working to eliminate the need for children to work altogether. It was good enough for the children of America, then surely it's good enough for the children of the world.


No matter where in the world a child lives, it is good for them to learn how to work. It can start with simple chores helping at home. How else do they learn good work ethics? Getting a part time job during the summer at a young age won't hurt either. That is different than the young doing forced labor as in some locations. Moderation is key to everything.


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I'm going to say something here.
> 
> The Disney union of Florida?
> 
> ...


Diseny's theme park's net revenue was $26BILLION. Most companies will net 2-4% profit so at 2% thats a PROFIT of $480MILLION.

You're happy the the Union pay $12 an hour? lol your math sucks. Remember, payroll is an expense, so they get to write that off, yet they are still rolling around in half a billion dollars after every bill is payed.


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## goobered (Feb 2, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> There is a far better solution to child labor.
> 
> Let's assume little Timmy is a Widget adjuster in the Toyota factory in Georgia. he got the job because of his small hands (the actual justification for child labor in the past by the way)
> 
> ...


This is a good parallel to my situation, because in my case the real problem is I have too many health issues to work a regular job. Working as an IC was my last best option, but rona just took that away. It typically takes years to get approved for disability. If the process wasn't so difficult, I wouldn't be in this situation.

I don't want to be an employee much less a unionized one. Gig delivery is best for me. But I really shouldn't even be working at this point. But the only reason I was able to stop working is because they extended UE to gig workers.

People like me are too much of a liability for employers. As an IC you take all of that risk on yourself. The compensation could certainly be better, but at least I have some choice over what I do or don't do. I couldn't do what would be required of a highly valued employee. My body no longer operates on command of other people or on any kind of schedule.


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## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Exactly. You hit the nail on the head. How much profit can there be in delivering a burrito and a drink? There just isn't enough money in the delivery charges for the delivery companies to make a profit _and_ for the delivery workers to be paid fairly. As they say on Shark Tank and Dragon's Den, "Sorry, I just don't see that you have a viable business".
> Again, nail on head. These companies are not profitable, even when they exploit their workers. It's just not a business. They should go back to the drawing board and see if they can make it work so that they make a profit and the workers are compensated fairly. If not, then it is indeed time to close up shop.
> 
> Uber makes similar claims in the US. "But if we were forced to treat our workers as employees and pay the vehicle costs for ferrying our passengers around then we'd be out of business!", they cry. Well, maybe they should not be in business in that case, if their revenues don't cover their expenses. That's not a viable business. Let Uber fold - someone will be along who will build a better, more efficient mouse trap and make it work.


One thing that nobody mentions is that if these companies ran the business the way they originally claimed there would not be these issues. They originally claimed to be the middle man connecting riders with drivers and restaurants with customers.

If they would of stuck to those arrangements things would of remained simple and expenses would of remained low. But when corporate greed steps in things change instantly. When you start overcharging passengers and restaurants and steal those profits from driver's and then use that money to expand by buying out competitors, starting IPO's, and hiring more drivers then you need things become complicated.


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## NoPool4Me (Apr 16, 2018)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> One thing that nobody mentions is that if these companies ran the business the way they originally claimed there would not be these issues. They originally claimed to be the middle man connecting riders with drivers and restaurants with customers.
> 
> If they would of stuck to those arrangements things would of remained simple and expenses would of remained low. But when corporate greed steps in things change instantly. When you start overcharging passengers and restaurants and steal those profits from driver's and then use that money to expand by buying out competitors, starting IPO's, and hiring more drivers then you need things become complicated.


Absolutely correct. Greed got to the gig companies...


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