# Who will win the ridesharing war? Probably not consumers.



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Who will win the ridesharing war? Probably not consumers.*

*http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...6-120a8a855cca_story.html?wp_login_redirect=0*


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

And we have two hyperlinked @uberpeople.net mention in this piece!

With @UberCemetery getting the top billing
https://uberpeople.net/threads/what-is-longest-you-have-gone-without-a-ping-when-online.4359/


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Thank you Catherine Rampell, perhaps the Uber Partnership Agreement will come in handy for your next Uber column!


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> And we have two hyperlinked @uberpeople.net mention in this piece!
> 
> With @UberCemetery getting the top billing
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/what-is-longest-you-have-gone-without-a-ping-when-online.4359/


Thats what I am talking about  Thanks for the heads up chi1cabby. Its going to be a good day.


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

Thank you Catherine Rampell - Great article


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Good stuff!


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Drivers' voices are desperately needed in the comments of this article!
Please go and add you comments!
Thank you!


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Uber, Lyft Are Great for Consumers? Dream On*

http://www.newser.com/story/196772/uber-lyft-are-great-for-consumers-dream-on.html


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Another reprint of Catherine Rampell's WaPo column:

The dark side of Uber and Lyft

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...-ridesharing-perspec-1006-20141003-story.html


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Ahh, another great article against the free market. Good to see the Washington compost be it's normal self. All hail central planning.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> Ahh, another great article against the free market.


Good to see that you are all for your idealized free market, even if it is detrimental to the Drivers bottom line.
I guess Uber On with your full throated support of Uber's policies and practices, while full-time Drivers in mature markets are reduced to making poverty level wages.

The following post is for your reference.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Rachel Galindo*
THIS IS WHY I'M LOOKING FOR ANOTHER JOB, SO FAR I HAD ONE INTERVIEW AND I'M SENDING MY RESUME EVERYWHERE I CAN.

2013 IRS Mileage Rate Increases To 56.5 Cents Per Mile
http://www.forbes.com/sites/troyonink/2012/11/21/2013-irs-mileage-rate-increases-to-56-5-cents-per-mile/

IRS Announces Standard Mileage Rates for 2014
http://www.ehtc.com/resources/news-articles/bid/103112/IRS-Announces-Standard-Mileage-Rates-for-2014

The Payment Statement for Rachel Galindo for the period ending at September 29, 2014 at 04:00am is available at: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=6C244C4E29A11BC%21153316&authkey=%21AETB-NeoifAHybI&ithint=file%2Cpdf


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> *Rachel Galindo*
> THIS IS WHY I'M LOOKING FOR ANOTHER JOB, SO FAR I HAD ONE INTERVIEW AND I'M SENDING MY RESUME EVERYWHERE I CAN.
> 
> 2013 IRS Mileage Rate Increases To 56.5 Cents Per Mile
> ...


To be completely transparent, this isn't what Rachel Galindo made per hour. This is what Rachel can be taxed on per hour. $0.56/mi is the deductible IRS expenses on a vehicle, but it is in almost all cases overstated. My actual car expenses are just over half of the IRS rate, and I have a 2014 model car.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

And to be frank, if Rachel only grossed $137 per 8 hours on the road, she was doing it wrong. I'm all for calling out Uber on their bullshit, but there is a driver intelligence factor that plays into earning potential. Something is awry if one is grossing $17 in fares in an hour.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

As for who will win... consumers are winning already. Drivers aren't being respected to the level they deserve -- that is of no question. But of the 1000+ fares I've had in my car, not a single rider preferred taxis to Uber. Not one. Some have had complaints and a handful of negative interactions, but even those customers qualified their statements with, "but it's still better than a taxi."


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

The ¢56.5/mile deduction wasn't pulled out of thin air by the IRS. It was derived after detailed analysis. It represents an average current cost of operating a car for business purposes. For some cars the actual cost will be lower or higher.

This is from the link above:
"The standard mileage rate for business is based on an annual study of the fixed and variable costs of operating an automobile."


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## UberCemetery (Sep 4, 2014)

http://www.irs.gov/2014-Standard-Mileage-Rates-for-Business,-Medical-and-Moving-Announced


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

@Rachel Galindo is a new member of this forum. I hope that she'll speak for herself when she logs on.

She bought a new car exclusively for doing UberX. She works as a full-time driver, 78 hours in the week of that spreadsheet. Her income has been subjected to 3 Rate Cuts totaling ~60% in less than a year.

I think she's in LA. And this is what Uber continues to advertise there:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/search/lac/jjj/?query=Uber


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Three free market always works when its tried. For me this works as it's not a "job" nor is it designed to be. If you think like that you will stay broke forever. This is 2014 not 1960. The days of "jobs" are over. You have to understand you work for one person, yourself. Once you start realizing that your entire outlook changes. As for me, I use the dreaded "downtime" as my time to get work done. I have yet to run out of work I can do in that time. Time I would here as I am now in front of my computer. Now I use some of my "downtime" from other activities to do a few rides, sometimes combining a ride with somewhere else I need to go, and whatnot. This is not supposed to be cabby. 2.0 and I suggest if you want to improve your life you'd start seeing it that way. or.... not, and stay broke forever.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> Three free market always works when its tried. For me this works as it's not a "job" nor is it designed to be. If you think like that you will stay broke forever. This is 2014 not 1960. The days of "jobs" are over. You have to understand you work for one person, yourself. Once you start realizing that your entire outlook changes. As for me, I use the dreaded "downtime" as my time to get work done. I have yet to run out of work I can do in that time. Time I would here as I am now in front of my computer. Now I use some of my "downtime" from other activities to do a few rides, sometimes combining a ride with somewhere else I need to go, and whatnot. This is not supposed to be cabby. 2.0 and I suggest if you want to improve your life you'd start seeing it that way. or.... not, and stay broke forever.


Whatever man! 
All that lecturing from you to the drivers, and not a word about Uber itself fraudulently enticing potential drivers into thinking that IT IS A full time job with earnings upwards of 50K.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Whatever man!
> All that lecturing from you to the drivers, and not a word about Uber itself fraudulently enticing potential drivers into thinking that IT IS A full time job with earnings upwards of 50K.


I don't need someone to be my mommy or my daddy and be able to read ads when they promise me things. If you sign up and it's not for you... move on. Last time I checked it cost me zero to try this. When it stops working for me I will stop doing it.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> Three free market always works when its tried.


There are no Free Markets.

Every existing Markets has rules and regulations on all aspects that market participants agree to abide by, for even any real market to function in an transparent, fair and honest manner.

The last Free Market ceased to probably exist with the advent of a trade and adoption of a common currency, and doing away with cowrie shells.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_money


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> Last time I checked it cost me zero to try this.


Drivers are being enticed to sign up for brand new cars through Uber's bottom of the barrel partner Santander! Uber is giving $500 to drivers who refer their friends/family for this lease financing that almost doubles the cost of the car!


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> To be completely transparent, this isn't what Rachel Galindo made per hour. This is what Rachel can be taxed on per hour. $0.56/mi is the deductible IRS expenses on a vehicle, but it is in almost all cases overstated. My actual car expenses are just over half of the IRS rate, and I have a 2014 model car.


Hi Mattv ! In support of your call for transperancy, is that $0.56 per mile the deductible rate on running an maintenance costs right?

You would also have a large deduction on your Capital cost. Easily established as a percentage of the miles you do for work and those for personal use.

For example say the car costs $500 per month and you do 1000 miles. 800 miles p/m is Ubering so you can make a SEPERATE claim for $400 back.

But back to the claim that the you car's running cost is actually just over half of the 56cents per mile. Totally agree with you on that Matt!

But Matt, you have a wonderful new car, what you FAIL to do is look ahead or show any experience with high-mileage cars.

Matt what will the actual running cost of your car when its out of warranty, got 100,000 miles on it and things such as window switches and motors, door hinges and locks, water pumps, cam/ timing belts, platinum plugs, transmission, differential, wiper motors.... (the list is endless) start failing and need replacing because of the greater commercial use of your vehicle?

Enjoy the first 2 years my friend, after that watch those costs overtake the 56 cents


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

Sydney Uber said:


> Hi Mattv ! In support of your call for transperancy, is that $0.56 per mile the deductible rate on running an maintenance costs right?
> 
> You would also have a large deduction on your Capital cost. Easily established as a percentage of the miles you do for work and those for personal use.
> 
> ...


Actually, sir, no... they don't. Unless your vehicle is INCREDIBLY unreliable and breaks down constantly, your maintenance costs are not likely to ever exceed depreciation expense. You can argue this until you are blue in the face, but as an accountant with real world experience, I do not agree.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

I've lived and worked in LA for the past 28 year, and I've being driving UberX since May 12, 2013. I started driving with a Ford Focus 2012, with some reservations from the uber guy that inspected it and predicting my demise in two weeks, I'm not sure if he was referring to me or the car I would be driving. When I asked if he was going to deactivate me in two weeks, he just gave me a no for an answer, adding "you will see". Driving my Focus SE didn't seem to be disadvantageous on my ratings, other than occasionally have big people snuggly fit in the car. Not knowing nothing about the insurance limbo, I didn't worry much, but still wasn't sure if this was going to work out, since it was being challenged, by the "taxi cartels", and I didn't commit to drive full time until earlier this year, when I upgraded my focus to a Ford Fusion Hybrid, to drive full time UberX. I did some calculations and concluded that the gas savings would offset the higher sticker price of the new car and I should have seen it coming but I didn't, I really didn't thought Uber would go so low with their prices. 18 months ago the price per mile was at $2.50 and the saturation with drivers was just starting. Now, 18 months later the price per mile has gone down to $1.10 and drivers saturation keeps piling up at a rate of fifty thousand a month, that's what uber themselves say. Currently I'm looking for another job, but while that happens I'll be oobering for 5 buck an hour, or 12 bucks if you think my car costs don't count, waiting for the next "promotion" to drive the last nail in my uber-coffin.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> Actually, sir, no... they don't. Unless your vehicle is INCREDIBLY unreliable and breaks down constantly, your maintenance costs are not likely to ever exceed depreciation expense. You can argue this until you are blue in the face, but as an accountant with real world experience, I do not agree.


And frankly, if you ever get to the point where maintenance costs overtake what new vehicle depreciation would be, then you are stupid to continue owning such a car in lieu of purchasing a replacement vehicle.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

I, too, drive a Ford Fusion Hybrid. Rachel's response above confirms that her vehicle expenses are not really $0.56/mile. It's fantastic that we get to deduct that, but it's not ACTUAL out of pocket expense. Our out of pocket is less than the calculated IRS rate. Does that mean that Uber is as profitable as it claims for drivers? Hell no. It's not. But it's also not as dire as the chart above asserts.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> To be completely transparent, this isn't what Rachel Galindo made per hour. This is what Rachel can be taxed on per hour. $0.56/mi is the deductible IRS expenses on a vehicle, but it is in almost all cases overstated. My actual car expenses are just over half of the IRS rate, and I have a 2014 model car.


What do you consider to be your actual expenses? I heard some drivers consider gas expenses to be their actual expenses. a great majority fail to identify wear and tear or depreciation as part of their expenses and most of the times the have a foolish logic. Would you elaborate?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> Ahh, another great article against the free market. Good to see the Washington compost be it's normal self. All hail central planning.


Please quote the part(s) of the article which is(are) against the free market.

This article is no more anti-free market than it is anti-renewable energy, or anti-pollution control, or anti-girl scout cookies. Or anything else that is good.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> as an accountant with real world experience


Would I be wrong in assuming then that you drive part-time, and that you drive during the busier, more lucrative hours?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Rachel Galindo said:


> What do you consider to be your actual expenses? I heard some drivers consider gas expenses to be their actual expenses. a great majority fail to identify wear and tear or depreciation as part of their expenses and most of the times the have a foolish logic. Would you elaborate?


Business expenses for me are, as a proportion of gross revenue:

Uber fee - 20%
Car lease payments - 19%
Gas - 10%
Servicing and maintenance - 5%
Employer's taxes / social security - 3%

Total costs are 57% of gross revenue. Profit therefore is 43% of revenue.

Uber promises $20 per hour gross in my city. I achieve this. Therefore I make net of all expenses approximately $8.60 per hour; just below minimum wage.

I have spoken to many drivers who proudly say with a smile, "I make $1000, $1200 per week!". " No, you don't", I say.

Uber exploits the fact that normal people are not skilled in business, and cannot spot that Uber passes off hourly revenue as hourly wages. Of course, these are completely different accounting concepts. It's shameful.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

elelegido said:


> Uber exploits the fact that normal people are not skilled on business, and cannot spot that Uber passes off hourly revenue as hourly wages. Of course, these are completely different accounting concepts. It's shameful.


This is spot on. But one should NEVER trust anyone who is telling you what you could make in a contracting role. One should always self-educate on reality.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Would I be wrong in assuming then that you drive part-time, and that you drive during the busier, more lucrative hours?


You would be correct in that assumption. However, I have driven full days during off-peak hours (think: all day/night on a random Tuesday) and easily hit $200 gross per 8 hours. Lucrative hours can often yield $350+ per 8 hours, gross. Obviously, market dynamics will vary, but I stand by my assertion that if one is making as little as originally claimed in 70+ hours of work, they are suffering from bad strategy decisions on top of whatever the market dynamics are.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

*What Expenses Does Mileage Reimbursement Cover?*
The mileage reimbursement rate is intended to cover the costs of operating a car for business purposes. The costs that are contemplated by the standard mileage rate are standard maintenance, repairs, taxes, gas, insurance, and registration feesas well as wear and tear on your vehicle. Essentially the standard mileage rate is intended to cover the expenses that one would report if he used the actual car expenses deduction, but the standard mileage reimbursement rate is simply an estimate and may end up being more or even less than your actual expenses.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> One should always self-educate on reality.


New Drivers are being on boarded at the rate of 50,000 a month. Thanx to #UberMilitary, many of them will be out of work Veterans. Is it okay for Uber to continue to entice so many desperate out of work, or underemployed people with borderline fraudulent earnings claims?


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

Rachel Galindo said:


> What do you consider to be your actual expenses? I heard some drivers consider gas expenses to be their actual expenses. a great majority fail to identify wear and tear or depreciation as part of their expenses and most of the times the have a foolish logic. Would you elaborate?


What is more important than MY expenses is what you have calculated to be YOUR ACTUAL expenses. I am stating that $0.56 is not your actual cost per mile. You say it is. Show your calculations that substantiate you are spending $0.56/mile.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

I used to gross the same in a 40 hour week, not happening any more. Used to be good!


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> New Drivers are being on boarded at the rate of 50,000 a month. Thanx to #UberMilitary, many of them will be out of work Veterans. Is it okay for Uber to continue to entice so many desperate out of work, or underemployed people with borderline fraudulent earnings claims?


I don't like the Uber double-speak at all. However, they are not miking a guarantee of earnings, and they do state specifically what they intend to take out of fares. It's a responsible adult's job to be educated enough to perform simple math. The bigger problem I have is when Uber straight up lies to customers about tips being included, or straight up lies about hourly rate guarantees during special events. Those are real legal issues that someone will eventually burn them on. Banking on drivers to be stupid and not understand the income/expense ratios is not moral, but it's not illegal.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> easily hit $200 gross per 8 hours.


 Only a driver who is intent on spreading UberHype would use "gross fares" as a number to bandy about. Isn't Uber taking $1/Ride SRF + 20% commission from you? Aren't there any miniscule marginal operating costs associated with driving for you? You say you are an accountant, but obviously you don't care to shed any truths on the numbers!


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> This is spot on. But one should NEVER trust anyone who is telling you what you could make in a contracting role. One should always self-educate on reality.


Yes. There are lies, damn lies and contract job earnings predictions. I knew this fully. But I was, as I've said before, hysterically desperate for money a few months ago. I was a few weeks away from a free daily meal at the shelter and a blanket under the stars. When one is desperate for money, most will do absolutely ANYTHING legal. Even Uber


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Only a driver who is intent on spreading UberHype would use "gross fares" as a number to bandy about. Isn't Uber taking $1/Ride SRF + 20% commission from you? Aren't there when miniscule marginal operating costs associated with driving for you? You say you are an accountant, but obviously you don't care to shed any truths on the numbers!


Dude, I was using gross fares to compare apples-to-apples on the original info here. Don't be a dick.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> Banking on drivers to be stupid and not understand the income/expense ratios is not moral, but it's not illegal.


But what kind of a society do we want for ourselves if there is no expectation of morality?


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

elelegido said:


> But what kind of a society do we want for ourselves if there is no expectation of morality?


Morality is subjective and variable over time and location. What is considered moral today may not have been a century ago, or a century from now. It may not be considered moral in a different country. We cannot be concerned with morality, only legality.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> Don't be a dick.


 How is quoting your words make me a dick? And if it does make me dick, then you are the original dick in this thread.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> We cannot be concerned with morality, only legality.


This is neither about morality, or legality. This is about Uber's business ethics.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Only a driver who is intent on spreading UberHype would use "gross fares" as a number to bandy about.


This is where you're being a dick. I wan't using gross fares to hype Uber. I was using gross fares to equitably reply to the original gross fares amount.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

Ethics vs Morals:
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Ethics_vs_Morals


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

What about Uber misleading the drivers, the so called "PARTNERS" from the get go? Aren't they also stakeholders in this enterprise called Ride-sharing? After all they are contributing the vast majority of the labor and capital(cars) to this enterprise. Isn't the impact of the companies policies on the drivers of no significance?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stakeholder_theory


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> This is neither about morality, or legality. This is about Uber's business ethics.


Ethics: The rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group or culture.

I.E. - yes, it's about legality, because ethics = legality.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> What is more important than MY expenses is what you have calculated to be YOUR ACTUAL expenses. I am stating that $0.56 is not your actual cost per mile. You say it is. Show your calculations that substantiate you are spending $0.56/mile.


I'm not an accounting. How does the IRS calculate the Standard Mileage Rate each year? Why is it offered by the IRS?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> Morality is subjective and variable over time and location. What is considered moral today may not have been a century ago, or a century from now. It may not be considered moral in a different country. We cannot be concerned with morality, only legality.


That's funny, a little Austrian bloke with a strange little square mustache was not concerned with morality, but very greatly concerned with law and order. Same for the chubby dude who invaded Kuwait, twice. We don't want to go down that road.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

elelegido said:


> That's funny, a little Austrian bloke with a strange little square mustache was not concerned with morality, but very greatly concerned with law and order. Same for the chubby dude who invaded Kuwait, twice. We don't want to do down that road.


If you are asserting that Hitler or Hussein were within the scope of legality in their actions, you are sorely mistaken and misrepresenting reality.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

A car that cost me 35k on may 24th, 2014 is value at $23.705 according to the blue book.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

elelegido said:


> That's funny, a little Austrian bloke with a strange little square mustache was not concerned with morality, but very greatly concerned with law and order. Same for the chubby dude who invaded Kuwait, twice. We don't want to go down that road.


Additionally, if you are conflating Uber misrepresentations with the Holocaust, you are entering the bounds of hysterics.


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

elelegido said:


> But what kind of a society do we want for ourselves if there is no expectation of morality?


How about a society that allows corporations to take advantage of some of it's most vulnerable members? It doesn't require reading many posts on this site to realize how gullible and uneducated MANY of these drivers are. Unless the government/courts step in to protect these drivers, they will continue to get raped by Uber/Lyft and think they are doing well.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

Rachel Galindo said:


> A car that cost me 35k on may 24th, 2014 is value at $23.705 according to the blue book.


If you paid $35k for a Ford Fusion Hybrid, you got screwed. If you paid for a new car, you screwed yourself.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> This is where you're being a dick. I wan't using gross fares to hype Uber. I was using gross fares to equitably reply to the original gross fares amount.


No this where You Are Being A Dick!
You were calling @Rachel Galindo unintelligent and refuting her numbers. Then you bandy about your gross fare totals as an "equitable" comparison to her actual earnings.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

Former Yellow Driver said:


> How about a society that allows corporations to take advantage of some of it's most vulnerable members? It doesn't require reading many posts on this site to realize how gullible and uneducated MANY of these drivers are. Unless the government/courts step in to protect these drivers, they will continue to get raped by Uber/Lyft and think they are doing well.


False. It is not the government's role to protect people from their own stupidity. If Uber makes false promises, then they should be held accountable. They should not, however, be held accountable for someone's lack of intelligence.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

Basically, I've being receiving un-accrued car equity advancements from uber for helping them to "revolutionize the industry"


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> No this where You Are Being A Dick!
> You were calling @Rachel Galindo unintelligent and refuting her numbers. Then you bandy about your gross fare totals as an "equitable" comparison to her actual earnings.


I'm saying that the IRS standard deduction is not equivalent to actual costs. That is a hard fact, sir. Sorry that ruffles your panties.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

Just yesterday I found a link for uberdotcom promising $40 on farer per hours.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

Rachel Galindo said:


> Basically, I've being receiving un-accrued car equity advancements from uber for helping them to "revolutionize the industry"


If you did not expect depreciation, then you did not educate yourself before entering this fairly simple contracting relationship.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> Additionally, if you are conflating Uber misrepresentations with the Holocaust, you are entering the bounds of hysterics.


Going off on a random tangent of your own invention, then attributing your tangent to the other person, then attacking that tangent is hardly valid debate, is it now?

You made intelligent comment, until this.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> No this where You Are Being A Dick!
> You were calling @Rachel Galindo unintelligent and refuting her numbers. Then you bandy about your gross fare totals as an "equitable" comparison to her actual earnings.


And no, I compared my gross earnings to her gross earnings.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Wow, business ethics, you guys are missing that by a mile by thinking an ad saying you *****could**** earn up to this or that comes close to violating any form of ethics. As long as it's possible it ethical as it well duh... possible and it is. Nowhere is business is anything pitched to the medium - or the even worse - to the lowest common denominator. The fact is, the Pareto principle (the 80/20 rule) applies here as much as it would in a same ad running for a commissioned sales selling stoves at a appliance store. Now of course the haters of the free market, and anyone who doesn't see that article as a hatred of the free market is probably one, thinks that life is not fair. It's not fair that 20% of the calls that come in make 80% of the money into just about every business on the planet. It's not fair that some peopel can make hundreds a night doig this and some can't. It's not fair that a CEO makes millions and some idiot makes $8 an hour. But such is life. It's not fair and business is business. The free market works... but only if you work


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

elelegido said:


> Going off on a random tangent of your own invention, then attributing your tangent to the other person, then attacking that tangent is hardly valid debate, is it now?
> 
> You made intelligent comment, until this.


I didn't create any tangents here. Try again.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

I


Former democracer said:


> How about a society that allows corporations to take advantage of some of it's most vulnerable members? It doesn't require reading many posts on this site to realize how gullible and uneducated MANY of these drivers are. Unless the government/courts step in to protect these drivers, they will continue to get raped by Uber/Lyft and think they are doing well.


It's difficult for democratic governments to try to impose morality. The people reject it as meddling and overstepping the mark


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> False. It is not the government's role to protect people from their own stupidity. If Uber makes false promises, then they should be held accountable. They should not, however, be held accountable for someone's lack of intelligence.


 But the government DOES protect people from their own stupidity. 3 day cooling off period...suicide laws...ect..


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> Sorry that ruffles your panties


I guess once a dick, always a dick!

So when are you going to making your next cabby and taxicab comparisons...they've been missing in few of your last posts.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

Rachel Galindo said:


> Just yesterday I found a link for uberdotcom promising $40 on farer per hours.


Go ahead and post the screen shot of this "promise."


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

Former Yellow Driver said:


> But the government DOES protect people from their own stupidity. 3 day cooling off period...suicide laws...ect..


So because politicians pander and treat you like your an ignorant fool that would die it it were not for them, you think that's great?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> Wow, business ethics, you guys are missing that by a mile by thinking an ad saying you *****could**** earn up to this or that comes close to violating any form of ethics. As long as it's possible it ethical as it well duh... possible and it is. Nowhere is business is anything pitched to the medium - or the even worse - to the lowest common denominator. The fact is, the Pareto principle (the 80/20 rule) applies here as much as it would in a same ad running for a commissioned sales selling stoves at a appliance store. Now of course the haters of the free market, and anyone who doesn't see that article as a hatred of the free market is probably one, thinks that life is not fair. It's not fair that 20% of the calls that come in make 80% of the money into just about every business on the planet. It's not fair that some peopel can make hundreds a night doig this and some can't. It's not fair that a CEO makes millions and some idiot makes $8 an hour. But such is life. It's not fair and business is business. The free market works... but only if you work


When you are able to make your points while avoiding the oh-so-tempting-for-some pitfall of insulting the people you're having a discussion with, your points may have a chance of being worthy of discussion with you


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## Former Yellow Driver (Sep 5, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> So because politicians pander and treat you like your an ignorant fool that would die it it were not for them, you think that's great?


Did I say it's great? I said that there are some members of society that need protection.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> It's not fair that some peopel can make hundreds a night doig this and some can't. It's not fair that a CEO makes millions and some idiot makes $8 an hour. But such is life. It's not fair and business is business. The free market works... but only if you work


It's because of attitudes like these amongst capable people with wherewithal that's partly responsible for the decimation of the American Middle Class and increased concentration of wealth amongst the super rich. 
And please don't come back with that trite "class warfare" retort.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

Your Ford Fusion Hybrid was a gift? Does not have any value? It doesn't wears? It doesn't depreciates? Whatever the price was that you paid for it?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> If you are asserting that Hitler or Hussein were within the scope of legality in their actions, you are sorely mistaken and misrepresenting reality.


No, I was not asserting that. Again, if you have doubts about what someone meant, try asking for clarification instead of producing your own suppositions, then discounting them. It adds nothing.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

Currently the lowest sticker price for a Ford Fusion Hybrid SE is 29K, excluding the additional charges.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

Rachel Galindo said:


> Currently the lowest sticker price for a Ford Fusion Hybrid SE is 29K, excluding the additional charges.


If you chose to buy new and eat the "drive off the lot" depreciation, your bad.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

Their constant "promotions" to lower prices, are not helping the drivers in LA, as they falsely claim. If you were lucky enough to get a good fare during a good surge, and happens that you only oober casually, just for the heck of it, your opinions about driving for uber will be completely skewed.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

Rachel Galindo said:


> Currently the lowest sticker price for a Ford Fusion Hybrid SE is 29K, excluding the additional charges.


I just bought a 2014 Fusion Hybrid Titanium, fully loaded, for $28,000. It had 6,000 miles on it.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

Rachel Galindo said:


> Their constant "promotions" to lower prices, are not helping the drivers in LA, as they falsely claim. If you were lucky enough to get a good fare during a good surge, and happens that you only oober casually, just for the heck of it, your opinions about driving for uber will be completely skewed.


There is no doubt in my mind that fare cuts hurt drivers. Nobody is arguing they help drivers here. I've Ubered enough to see the best days, the worst days, and the typical day.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

elelegido said:


> No, I was not asserting that. Again, if you have doubts about what someone meant, try asking for clarification instead of producing your own suppositions, then discounting them. It adds nothing.


You reference two violent dictators who committed genocide and other atrocities, and then accuse someone of incorrect assumptions? Yeah, ok buddy.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> You reference two violent dictators who committed genocide and other atrocities, and then accuse someone of incorrect assumptions? Yeah, ok buddy.


I have no idea whatsoever what you are trying to say with this, so I'm unable to make additional comment on it. Other than that (1) referencing dictators, and (2) confirming (not accusing) that an observer's suppositions (not assumptions) are incorrect, are not mutually exclusive


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

I do regret it, every day, every hour, every minute. Made sense... turned foolish.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

Guess what your Fully loaded Titanium now costs 25K.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

John W said:


> Rideshare is a complete misnomer. A rideshare is when a group share the commute or when at least two people are going to the same destination.
> UBER/Lyft are actually a taxi service. I fully understand why they have been stamped with such a bogus label. They don't want to actually be aligned with taxis and have to follow the same rules as the taxi industry does.
> Heaven forbid that they start to regulate the *ridesharing business.*....
> They will need to change their name to something else... Probably even more bogus..


Really, I see Uber/Lyft as neither of these terms; not a Taxi Service and not a Rideshare.

I believe that the many cities and states, such as California PUC (Public Utilities Commission) are using TNC (Transportation Network Company).

Reference: http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/NR/rdonlyres/1788F1F1-EA38-4B68-B221-4116994F2252/0/TNC_App_Instrctns.pdf

_*What is a Transportation Network Company (TNC)? *_
_A Transportation Network Company (TNC) is a company or organization operating in California that provides transportation services using an online-enabled platform to connect passengers with drivers using their personal vehicles.This new classification of passenger carrier was established through CPUC Decision 13-09-045_


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

Rachel Galindo said:


> Guess what your Fully loaded Titanium now costs 25K.


Guess what? I'm not selling it, so it has no cost.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

Rachel Galindo said:


> Guess what your Fully loaded Titanium now costs 25K.


My financial assumptions will show my car to be worth $0 at the end of 5 years. It will still have a value greater than $0 at that point, obviously. However, unless you plan to sell your car (I don't) before it's fully depreciated, the present value has no significance.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

Exactly, "the present value had no significance" for you and you reluctance to accept it impact on the actual expenses.
Owning and Operating Your Vehicle Just Got a Little Cheaper According to AAA's 2014 'Your Driving Costs' Study http://newsroom.aaa.com/2014/05/own...e-cheaper-aaas-2014-your-driving-costs-study/


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

elelegido said:


> When you are able to make your points while avoiding the oh-so-tempting-for-some pitfall of insulting the people you're having a discussion with, your points may have a chance of being worthy of discussion with you


If you can't understand certain basic concepts and because of that you think I'm insulting you... well I can't help you with that.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

There are several things being left out of this conversation. First not all miles are equal in cost. As there is with any business, there are fixed costs and variable costs. If I go and buy two exact same cars, and drive one 12k miles a year and the other 24k a year, the per mile cost of the two cars is not the same. Second, and I have said this repeatedly, you can not compare this model to other outdated taxi models. This is different and you're like the days of a travel agent trying to compete against people booking their own flights on the web 1.0 back 10 years ago. This model will only continue to evolve and 10 years from now it will be totally different, perhaps it won't even exist as it Google will buy it and use the parts it need into a service they will build.


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## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> False. It is not the government's role to protect people from their own stupidity. If Uber makes false promises, then they should be held accountable. They should not, however, be held accountable for someone's lack of intelligence.


Why stay on target with a good argument when you can disparage a person for a mistake she/they admit making. Good form.

The smartest person in the world will make a mistake. If they are a scientist, then possible it will be a "great mistake". Any good scientist will tell you their best invention/experiment was most likely followed by the - "WTH, I didn't know it would do that?" moment.

Just guessing Travis K & his lunch buddy made many many mistakes prior to hitting on a cool idea. Whoah, really cool idea. Dawng...freaking Awesome Uber 17+ Billion Valuation and growing cool idea.

Sometimes you have to make those stupid mistakes to identify that one great "idea". Rachel took a chance as an independent contractor and made a mistake. She said it and I'll take her word for it. Rachel, work hard, and keep looking to improve yourself and those around you. Don't be an ahole for the sake of being,well, ahole'ish, like a few do on this forum. Ignore those who have fun with or find it just too easy to name call.

And unfortunately, it will probably take a few more painful mistakes for you, me, and many others unless we're accountants, then we get a pass. And it might not be with Uber but another TNC or another App driven business, or something unrelated. Heck, I might be working for you one day


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> If you can't understand certain basic concepts and because of that you think I'm insulting you... well I can't help you with that.


This is a good example of the complex question fallacy, and therefore invalid. You need to brush up on your debating skills. They're lacking.


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## Rachel Galindo (Aug 20, 2014)

Probably some drivers can take a lesson or two about leasing a new Camry thru uber with $160 weekly payments for 48 months, 1k down.


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## Piotrowski (Sep 9, 2014)

elelegido said:


> This is a good example of the complex question fallacy, and therefore invalid. You need to brush up on your debating skills. They're lacking.


haha, I didn't know that we were having a debate. Now what are you going to accuse me of using an inverted strawman argument! lol


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

SCdave said:


> Rachel, work hard, and keep looking to improve yourself and those around you. Don't be an ahole for the sake of being,well, ahole'ish, like a few do on this forum. Ignore those who have fun with or find it just too easy to name call.


Very well said.

There is a law, as yet unnamed, which states that internet discussions of contentious material will start out civil and then will have degerated into personal attack, insults, put-downs and showboating/peacocking by page 3 at the latest. It doesn't matter what the forum is called or what the subject matter is.

The cause is contributors who lack the ability to effectively put their points across, and instead believe that resorting to the above adds to their credibility. Of course, in reality it achieves the polar opposite.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

One thing is quite apparent.

Members such as @mattvuberx @Piotrowski & others who are in conditional or full throated support of Uber's practices towards ALL Drivers will make certain pro Uber, pro FREE MARKET assertions in their posts. But when challenged on those assertions, they start name calling, conflating the issue, using circular reasoning, blaming the victim, comparing apples to oranges, or simply ignoring the challenges to the assertions in their posts.

In essence they like to muddy up the debate on the issues from ALL Drivers point of view.

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/67-circular-reasoning


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Piotrowski said:


> haha, I didn't know that we were having a debate.


I can very easily believe that you did not know this. A debate can be as simple as an exchange of different views via discussion, which is what this thread was. It is easy though to confuse this with a formal debate, which of course has a moderator and an agreed method of determining the winner upon its conclusion.



Piotrowski said:


> Now what are you going to accuse me of using an inverted strawman argument! lol


As you are curious, no, not any kind of inverted strawman, just the plain vanilla type, among others


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

elelegido said:


> I can very easily believe that you did not know this. A debate can be as simple as an exchange of different views via discussion, which is what this thread was. It is easy though to confuse this with a formal debate, which of course has a moderator and an agreed method of determining the winner upon its conclusion.
> 
> As you are curious, no, not any kind of inverted strawman, just the plain vanilla type, among others


Don't waste your time with these two. Clueless.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> Don't waste your time with these two. Clueless.


And we have a winner! Another personal insult. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to prove again what I said four posts ago by demonstrating the fact. Again.

Well, at least we agree on something


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## Sydney Uber (Apr 15, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> False. It is not the government's role to protect people from their own stupidity. If Uber makes false promises, then they should be held accountable. They should not, however, be held accountable for someone's lack of intelligence.


Government represent its people. Government has within its ranks gullible and unintelligent people. Elected Government officials also work to a different agenda - that of making popular decisions rather than the correct decisions to help ensure their reelection.

Uber has recognised the many failings of human behaviour and have formulated a business model that takes advantages of some of the worst human traits.

So team up a super-savvy, viciously capitalist company who prey on people who believe the promises that Uber makes in regards to hourly returns. Use this ultra cheap workforce who invest significant capital into the promised partnership. Then lavishly service and grow a market that has many within its ranks exploitative, uncaring customers willing to badly treat drivers, underpay them for the services rendered.

Matt you are clearly an intelligent, tertiary trained individual, but your lack of empathy to those who believed the Uber promise is breathtaking. Many folk wanted so badly to work their way out of financial difficulties to only find dropping rates and increased running costs put them further into the red.

YES Matt, Governments are meant to protect people from unscrupulous business behaviour, but when Governments themselves subscribe to the same questionable morals, what hope do folk who simply believed the promise have?


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

mattvuberx and piotrowski. In 2014 they speak on subjects. But what if their actual words were somehow sent back in time and implanted in President Barack Obama's brain during his presidential election campaign in 2012? Let's find out!

The 2012 Katie Couric Presidential Election Interview With Incumbent President Barack Obama You Did NOT See:

Kc - Mr President, welcome. To start with, what advice would you give to the millions of youngsters who are about to finish school or college and are eager to get their foot on the first rung of the employment ladder, their first job, and especially to those youngsters who are worried about downtime while they are looking for work?

President Barack Obama - The days of "jobs" are over. You have to understand you work for one person, yourself. Once you start realizing that your entire outlook changes. As for me, I use the dreaded "downtime" as my time to get work done. I have yet to run out of work I can do in that time. I suggest if you want to improve your life you'd start seeing it that way. or.... not, and stay broke forever.

Kc. Thank you, Mr President, that is very enlightening. But many people were promised well paying jobs when you campaigned four years ago. What would you say to those who read your ads and then expected those jobs?

President Barack Obama - I don't need someone to be my mommy or my daddy and be able to read ads when they promise me things. If you sign up and it's not for you... move on. 

Kc - I see, sir. Lets's move on, ourselves, to a specific sector of the economy. There is a new industry, which started last year in 2011 called ride sharing. There have already been concerns voiced by workers that they have been misled by these companies for the financial benefit of the companies themselves. How would you handle these complaints?

President Barack Obama - Banking on drivers to be stupid and not understand the income/expense ratios is not moral, but it's not illegal.

Kc - Thank you, Sir. But what would you say to someone working hard in this industry, who wanted to know more detail about how much his business would cost to run?

President Barack Obama - Don't be a dick.

Kc - That's very informative, sir. Going back to morality, which we touched on briefly a moment ago, some in this country are concerned that we need to do something about preserving our family values, the fabric of our society, indeed, our morality. Do you agree that we as a country should be concerned about this?

President Barack Obama - We cannot be concerned with morality, only legality.

Kc - I see, sir, thank you. Now, many Americans were more confident in 2011 when the economy showed green shoots of recovery. They felt better about themselves and their futures, and started spending again. I, for example, was able to buy myself a Ford Fusion Hybrid for $35,000 last year. What incentives are you offering in order to get people spending again to help our auto industry recover?

President Barack Obama - If you paid $35k for a Ford Fusion Hybrid, you got screwed. If you paid for a new car, you screwed yourself.

Kc - Thank you Mr President for pointing that out. How may I ask, sir, could I have not made this mistake?

President Barack Obama - It is not the government's role to protect people from their own stupidity.

Kc - No, sir, of course not. 

President Barack Obama - Sorry that ruffles your panties.

Kc - I'm fine, Mr President. What I was really asking was, how would you have solved such a Presidential transportation issue?

President Barack Obama - I just bought a Fusion Hybrid Titanium, fully loaded, for $28,000. It had 6,000 miles on it.

Kc - That is very impressive sir, and undoubtedly demonstrates why you are the President and not I. Let's go back to the economy. Now let's discuss your small business development programs. Is there anything in these programs for those blue collar citizens who don't have any prior business experience, who want to try striking out on their own, but who may need a little help in succeeding?

President Barack Obama - Nowhere is business is anything pitched to the medium - or the even worse - to the lowest common denominator.

Kc - I see, sir. Moving on, it's widely held that the point of mobilizing and empowering private citizens is to help redress the growing gap between rich and poor in this country. What are your thoughts on the growing income inequality we face?

President Barack Obama - It's not fair that a CEO makes millions and some idiot makes $8 an hour. But such is life. It's not fair and business is business.

Kc - Thank you sir. Let's move on to the role of government in society.

President Barack Obama - So because politicians pander and treat you like your an ignorant fool that would die it it were not for them, you think that's great?

Kc - No sir!, I didn't mean to imply that. I'm just trying to understand your point of view on this topic

President Barack Obama - If you can't understand certain basic concepts and because of that you think I'm insulting you... well I can't help you with that.

Kc - I ask because in your recent presidential candidates' debate with your opponent you raised some important points

President Barack Obama - haha, I didn't know that we were having a debate. Now what are you going to accuse me of using an inverted strawman argument! lol

Kc - No sir. But, speaking of your opponents in the Republican party running against you in this election, what is your opinion of their campaign so far?

President Barack Obama - Don't waste your time with these two. Clueless.

Kc - I see. To wrap up sir, do you have any final message for the American public watching us this evening?

President Barack Obama - Don't be a dick.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

elelegido said:


> mattvuberx and piotrowski.





elelegido said:


> their actual words were somehow sent back in time and implanted


Bravo @elelegido !
Thank you for that illuminating read!


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## painfreepc (Jul 17, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> *Rachel Galindo*
> THIS IS WHY I'M LOOKING FOR ANOTHER JOB, SO FAR I HAD ONE INTERVIEW AND I'M SENDING MY RESUME EVERYWHERE I CAN.
> 
> 2013 IRS Mileage Rate Increases To 56.5 Cents Per Mile
> ...


Why the late morning start weekdays, try starting at 4am.
may be better to start later on sunday night and work till 10am monday and take tuesday off.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

@Rachel Galindo , I think @painfreepc has an excellent suggestion.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

@scrurbscrud this is the thread you're looking for. I posted @Rachel Galindo spreadsheet in the first page. She also posts in the thread later.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

elelegido said:


> mattvuberx and piotrowski. In 2014 they speak on subjects. But what if their actual words were somehow sent back in time and implanted in President Barack Obama's brain during his presidential election campaign in 2012? Let's find out!
> 
> The 2012 Katie Couric Presidential Election Interview With Incumbent President Barack Obama You Did NOT See:
> 
> ...


A straight-shooter like that would get my vote.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> A straight-shooter like that would get my vote.


Yet you still choose to muddy the waters of the debate when it comes to the drivers grievances. It's okay for you to have grievances but when other drivers do, you say "show me the proof or it didn't happen" Or when they give you the proof you call em "unintelligent"!
Some self righteous straight shooter you are!


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Yet you still choose to muddy the waters of the debate when it comes to the drivers grievances. It's okay for you to have grievances but when other drivers do, you say "show me the proof or it didn't happen" Or when they give you the proof you call em "unintelligent"!
> Some self righteous straight shooter you are!


It's called using independent judgment on every issue rather than blankly and blindly picking a side. Sometimes Uber is wrong, and many times they are. Sometimes drivers are.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> Yet you still choose to muddy the waters of the debate when it comes to the drivers grievances. It's okay for you to have grievances but when other drivers do, you say "show me the proof or it didn't happen" Or when they give you the proof you call em "unintelligent"!
> Some self righteous straight shooter you are!


I've not called a single person unintelligent for showing proof of anything. That's YOU creating stories in your head.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> I've not called a single person unintelligent for showing proof of anything. That's YOU creating stories in your head.





mattvuberx said:


> And to be frank, if Rachel only grossed $137 per 8 hours on the road, she was doing it wrong. I'm all for calling out Uber on their bullshit, but there is a driver intelligence factor that plays into earning potential. Something is awry if one is grossing $17 in fares in


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

@mattvuberx do you want me to go hunting for the threads where you ask other members "show me proof, or it didn't happen"? I think I've seen at least 2 posts of you doing that.
It's good to ask a member to post to post source material to better grasp what's going on.
But your posts demand proof members to bolster their credibility in your eyes!


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

She didn't show proof, therefore your premise is invalid.


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## mattvuberx (Sep 30, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> @mattvuberx do you want me to go hunting for the threads where you ask other members "show me proof, or it didn't happen"?


I'll help you out. A guy claimed Uber made a $12/hr guarantee. Yes, such assertions demand proof. Sorry if you can't handle that.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

mattvuberx said:


> I'll help you out. A guy claimed Uber made a $12/hr guarantee. Yes, such assertions demand proof. Sorry if you can't handle that.


No I can handle such assertions just fine! It's you who has trouble giving dereference to fellow members and calling them clueless!
No one has engaged in calling you names on this forum. Yes there was the case of close resemblance with a Matt from Uber_SF team. But you've tried to belittle me personally with name calling, questioning my intentions etc etc.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> No I can handle such assertions just fine! It's you who has trouble giving dereference to fellow members and calling them clueless!
> No one has engaged in calling you names on this forum. Yes there was the case of close resemblance with a Matt from Uber_SF team. But you've tried to belittle me personally with name calling, questioning my intentions etc etc.


Forums are full of mattvuberx types. I think you're probably wasting your time with this type of poster. They're the raison d'etre for the ignore button!


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