# nse.



## Yam Digger

http


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## Elder66

Interesting read. These cars are 30 years into the future. Uber drivers do not need go worry. 

I had the computer enigeer from deloitte who is like ohh auto cars are soo good and effienct and they will be on the roads in a few years blah blah blah. I was like yea keep that thought in your computer wet dream bud.

He was talking shit about the suburbs and the traffic jams in the burbs. Hes from TO by the way. TO is the best, everything is close no need to drive, people are better etc.

Im like how often does the ttc go down. Hes like "ttc never goes down. Only maintenance is done on off peak hours". 

I figured from his response he is clueless about his surroundings.


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## Elder66

Yam Digger said:


> It's not just the Big Apple; Toronto pedestrians will do the same thing.


Toronto would be worse with all those polite canadians.

(Pedestrian and auto car at intersection)

Pedestrian - oops sorry eh. You can go first.

Auto car - no sir you first

Pedesrian - no sir ehh. You first please and thank you.

Auto car - hurry up sir please cross

Pedestrian - ohhh be my guest eh, you cross first its the canadian way!

Auto car - for real I can't move until you move your fat ass. So please cross god damn it.

Pedestria - okie dokie, what a nice auto car.

Lolll


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## Livan

Now imagine a car with the Uber logo... I would make this company pay for all the money they owe me.

ɟnɔʞ ʎon nbǝɹ.


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## TheAutomator

Yam Digger said:


> Most of these Tech / Geek types don't have a clue about the reality of the world they live in. That's why letting these types of people plan the future for the rest of us is such a phenomenally bad idea.


While they tend to miss the "human" element in decision making, they make much more rational and intelligent decisions than the average person. If the world was run by computer engineers instead of Trump and Putin and Kim Jong Un, do you really think it would be worse?


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## TheAutomator

My thoughts are that self driving cars cannot happen unless all of the infrastructure around them (roads, traffic signalling, etc) are designed around them. You would also need ALL of the cars on the road to be autonomous (and for them to have some direct way to talk to and network with each other). Mixing autonomous and non autonomous just doesn't work.


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## uber fool

Computer guys and engineers are out of touch with a lot of social issues


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## Elder66

TheAutomator said:


> While they tend to miss the "human" element in decision making, they make much more rational and intelligent decisions than the average person. If the world was run by computer engineers instead of Trump and Putin and Kim Jong Un, do you really think it would be worse?


Umm yes it would be. Computer engineer is not a politican and a politican is not a computer engineer.

Some fields require more than a yes no answer or black white though process.


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## TheAutomator

Elder66 said:


> Umm yes it would be. Computer engineer is not a politican and a politican is not a computer engineer.
> 
> Some fields require more than a yes no answer or black white though process.


A good politician and a good leader are _not_ in any way related.

A good politician is good at gaming the system in their favour. They are good at winning popularity contests and making empty promises to get what they want. They are good at persuading and fooling uninformed people. They are not necessarily good at the actual task of being a leader once they are in office. At all.

Engineering is as far away from yes/no or black & white thinking as it gets. It requires applying academic knowledge to vague and non constant real world situations. It requires defining the problem as well as solving it. It requires making the best decision when multiple options with multiple positives and negatives are available.

The difference between an engineer and a politician is that engineers require evidence and facts to support their decisions.


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## Gill002

We all know how shitty drivers in toronto, cab drivers alone will screw the self driving cars completely

I swear I can see cabbies constantly slamming their brakes infront of those cars just to **** with people sitting inside LOL


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## Hannibalb

Yam Digger said:


> Most of these Tech / Geek types don't have a clue about the reality of the world they live in. That's why letting these types of people plan the future for the rest of us is such a phenomenally bad idea.


Hence Uber


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## TheAutomator

Yam Digger said:


> How rational can any of their decisions be if they don't take into consideration the non technical world around them?


They do take into consideration non-technical aspects of the world. What they tend to reject are the emotionally driven irrational aspects of the world. These are the things that lead us to such wonderful outcomes as never ending wars that benefit no one (except for weapons manufacturers), or to avoid teaching children about sex because we don't want them having kids (when in reality, data shows that children who learn about sex have less unwanted pregnancies). The data is there, but irrational, emotionally driven actors, hide from it and make poor decisions for society.


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## Fuzzyelvis

TheAutomator said:


> While they tend to miss the "human" element in decision making, they make much more rational and intelligent decisions than the average person. If the world was run by computer engineers instead of Trump and Putin and Kim Jong Un, do you really think it would be worse?


Computer engineers: better than Trump, Putin, and Kim Jong Un.

Yeah, that's an endorsement even assuming it's true!


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## Fuzzyelvis

TheAutomator said:


> They do take into consideration non-technical aspects of the world. What they tend to reject are the emotionally driven irrational aspects of the world. These are the things that lead us to such wonderful outcomes as never ending wars that benefit no one (except for weapons manufacturers), or to avoid teaching children about sex because we don't want them having kids (when in reality, data shows that children who learn about sex have less unwanted pregnancies). The data is there, but irrational, emotionally driven actors, hide from it and make poor decisions for society.


There's another word for "emotionally driven irrational aspects of the world."

They're called people.


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## TheAutomator

Fuzzyelvis said:


> There's another word for "emotionally driven irrational aspects of the world."
> 
> They're called people.


Not really (but it makes for a nice quip). All people have a rational and irrational side to them, in some proportion or another. People tend to lean one way or the other, but no person is just one.


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## rikstaker

What do they intend to do with hundreds of thousands of out of work cab drivers and uber drivers..


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## TheAutomator

rikstaker said:


> What do they intend to do with hundreds of thousands of out of work cab drivers and uber drivers..


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## Cowwy

People are crafty. Unless the software developer is equally crafty we won't see a automatic car driving anytime soon.

Software simply can't compete with human behaviors that can make snap changes.

Plus is technology, it is hackable. I certainly don't want to get in a car where some anonymous jerk decides that it would be fun to turn the steering wheel of a auto car from their computer.


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## rikstaker

Its a good time to be in the IT industry..just learn some java coding,scripting and you could get jobs testing these autnomous cars, aircrafts, sex robots etc..


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## Deoxlar

rikstaker said:


> Its a good time to be in the IT industry..just learn some java coding,scripting and you could get jobs testing these autnomous cars, aircrafts, sex robots etc..


Sex robots... Am I being replaced in the bedroom too?


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## Cowwy

Learning java now. See if I can hit up something this year. If you know any company hiring, let me know lol


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## steveK2016

That's a very valid point. Driving through Downtown Atlanta after an event, you have to really fight you way to turn at many intersections because there is a constant flow of pedestrians. You either have to just force yourself in the smallest of openings, causing pedestrians to slow down for you or make the turn just as it turns red.

Both things an autonomous vehicle wouldn't do. That autonomous vehicle will be stuck trying to make that left turn for an hour!


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## Disgusted Driver

If it ever comes to pass in my lifetime, I will be the first one out there with a traffic cone to put in front of the self driving Uber. 

Self driving trucks will probably work very well taking trailers from depot to depot next to interstate ramps but if you recall what Uber asked Pittsburgh to provide them for testing purposes (dedicated lanes and spots, pavement markings, ...), good luck


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## K-pax

TheAutomator said:


> While they tend to miss the "human" element in decision making, they make much more rational and intelligent decisions than the average person. If the world was run by computer engineers instead of Trump and Putin and Kim Jong Un, do you really think it would be worse?


This is assuming a rational response is always better in every situation. For example, it's very rational to deny health care to the elderly because of the cost vs how much life they have left. The emotional decision making of putting compassion over cold rationality is definately better in that case. This is something that some techies and engineers have a problem with. They discount the human element, thinking that every problem has a very linear, rational, one-size-fits-all solution that everyone will embrace with glee and act in a rational way when interfacing with it. The real world just doesn't work that way. Chaos will always be a factor as long as human beings are involved. It would be different... unlivable in a different way. I don't think it would be any better at all. I would take benevolent passion over calm calculated (sociopathic) leaders any day. The problem is with malevolent (psychopathic) irrationality.


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## Blackout 702

Deoxlar said:


> Sex robots... Am I being replaced in the bedroom too?


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## Mars Troll Number 4

Sometimes you just gotta roll down the window and shout "anyone who doesn't want run over clear the GD intersection and let me through I've been waiting three GD lights to cross...

When an angry cabbie shouts that you get the F off the street.

Automatons can't say that.


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## andaas

Maybe we'll reach this someday... (watch all the way to the end)


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## Fubernuber

I would use ubers auto cars as a public toilet. In america uber had somethint like 400k drivers. Thats 400k happy customers who would shit in ubere autocar every chance they get. Venture capitalists are salivating over uber have no idea what they have invested in. Its a modern tale if live by the sword die by the sword


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## VegasR

TheAutomator said:


>


Perfectly rational if you take out stupid emotional thinking.


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## Polomarko

Trump will fix it, he will fix it big, believe me.


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## Cole Hann

Gill002 said:


> We all know how shitty drivers in toronto, cab drivers alone will screw the self driving cars completely
> 
> I swear I can see cabbies constantly slamming their brakes infront of those cars just to &%[email protected]!* with people sitting inside LOL


You're low hanging fruit for Prosecution and easy conviction. 
Criminal intent: involves* a conscious decision on the part of one party to injure or deprive another.*​*







*


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## Cole Hann

Fubernuber said:


> I would use ubers auto cars as a public toilet. In america uber had somethint like 400k drivers. Thats 400k happy customers who would shit in ubere autocar every chance they get. Venture capitalists are salivating over uber have no idea what they have invested in. Its a modern tale if live by the sword die by the sword


*
you're Local mental healthcare professional may want to consider increasing your antipsychotic Medication Dosage*​


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## flexian

Cole Hann said:


> *you're Local mental healthcare professional may want to consider increasing your antipsychotic Medication Dosage*​


so ur saying u disagree w him???


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## tohunt4me

TheAutomator said:


> While they tend to miss the "human" element in decision making, they make much more rational and intelligent decisions than the average person. If the world was run by computer engineers instead of Trump and Putin and Kim Jong Un, do you really think it would be worse?


You would gladly give up your Free Will to be ruled by A Robot ?
You sir are undeserving of freedom.


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## tohunt4me

TheAutomator said:


> My thoughts are that self driving cars cannot happen unless all of the infrastructure around them (roads, traffic signalling, etc) are designed around them. You would also need ALL of the cars on the road to be autonomous (and for them to have some direct way to talk to and network with each other). Mixing autonomous and non autonomous just doesn't work.


JUST SAY NO ! TO SEGREGATION !


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## tohunt4me

uber fool said:


> Computer guys and engineers are out of touch with a lot of social issues


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## tohunt4me

rikstaker said:


> What do they intend to do with hundreds of thousands of out of work cab drivers and uber drivers..


Detainment Camps.


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## Cole Hann

flexian said:


> so ur saying u disagree w him???


Nope. I'm writtin'

*"you're Local mental healthcare professional may want to consider increasing your antipsychotic Medication Dosage"*

we need to be more aware of those among us with mental illness that may manifest to acts against humanity.


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## ChortlingCrison

Cole Hann said:


> *you're Local mental healthcare professional may want to consider increasing your antipsychotic Medication Dosage*​


Whatever happened to prozac and/or thorazine?


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## flexian

Cole Hann said:


> Nope. I'm writtin'
> 
> *"you're Local mental healthcare professional may want to consider increasing your antipsychotic Medication Dosage"*
> 
> we need to be more aware of those among us with mental illness that may manifest to acts against humanity.


if autocars turn out to be port a potties on wheels who will be the crazy one then?


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## tohunt4me

rikstaker said:


> Its a good time to be in the IT industry..just learn some java coding,scripting and you could get jobs testing these autnomous cars, aircrafts, sex robots etc..


You joke of the sex robots.
I find it alarming.
The rich will kill us all.
Transhumanists wish to become machines that never die.
We are being replaced with machines. The rich will soon lose their only motivation for keeping any of us alive.
Soon there will be Hybrid macine humans.


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## tohunt4me

ChortlingCrison said:


> Whatever happened to prozac and/or thorazine?


I vote for Thorazine !
Thorazine tazers !


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## tohunt4me

ChortlingCrison said:


> Whatever happened to prozac and/or thorazine?


Humming " Mothers Little Helper" by the Rolling Stones . . .
" well it's just your 19th nervous breakdownnnnn . . . here it comes . . " celebrating over a half century of drugging the public into conformity,Better Living Through Chemistry Commission. Keep the Dream Alive,Keep them Sleeping.
Remember: a Subdued Public is a Pliable Public.


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## Elder66

The difference between an engineer and a politician is that engineers require evidence and facts to support their decisions. [/QUOTE]

Exactly my point.

The world would stop because a computer would not have the information needed to make the next move.


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## Milito

Here in South Beach pedestrians don't respect anything they just across the streets without looking and in downtown the some homeless guys try to get hit by cars in order to collect some money , drivers have to be on the defensive the whole time. I wonder how autonomous cars are gonna avoid that situation


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## Elder66

Milito said:


> Here in South Beach pedestrians don't respect anything they just across the streets without looking and in downtown the some homeless guys try to get hit by cars in order to collect some money , drivers have to be on the defensive the whole time. I wonder how autonomous cars are gonna avoid that situation


Simple. People will start paying attention once they start getting pancaked by these cars. Good old skid marks on their asses.


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## heynow321

Waiting for ramz response


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## RamzFanz

Elder66 said:


> nteresting read. These cars are 30 years into the future. Uber drivers do not need go worry.
> 
> I had the computer enigeer from deloitte who is like ohh auto cars are soo good and effienct and they will be on the roads in a few years blah blah blah. I was like yea keep that thought in your computer wet dream bud.


2-3 years. You said 30 but you must have meant 2-3. Or do we go with an Uber your predictions over a computer engineer and almost every major auto and tech company in the world?



TheAutomator said:


> My thoughts are that self driving cars cannot happen unless all of the infrastructure around them (roads, traffic signalling, etc) are designed around them. You would also need ALL of the cars on the road to be autonomous (and for them to have some direct way to talk to and network with each other). Mixing autonomous and non autonomous just doesn't work.


SDCs don't need infrastructure changes and are on the roads with humans all day every day and have been for many years. Yes, it's a learning curve, but we are in the end game, not the beginning.



rikstaker said:


> What do they intend to do with hundreds of thousands of out of work cab drivers and uber drivers..


The same as we do with the people from the 3,000,000 jobs a year that go away, create new jobs. Besides, the cost of living is about to plummet so you won't have to work as many hours to maintain the same standard of living.



Fubernuber said:


> I would use ubers auto cars as a public toilet. In america uber had somethint like 400k drivers. Thats 400k happy customers who would shit in ubere autocar every chance they get.


They would love it. They know who you are, they have video of you, they have your credit card, it's easy money. Then they report you for vandalism and you get to go hire a lawyer, go to court, try to explain, and pay your fines.



flexian said:


> if autocars turn out to be port a potties on wheels who will be the crazy one then?


Why would they stop charging cleaning fees all of the sudden? If anything, they will charge more because they will have solid evidence every single time.



heynow321 said:


> Waiting for ramz response


OK, well, here you go:

You fine the jaywalkers until they stop doing it. Hefty and escalating fines.


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## tohunt4me

Yam Digger said:


> If they can grow vaginas in a lab, can they grow a 12 incher for me?


A robot wearing it will show up at your house for you . . .


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## K-pax

flexian said:


> so ur saying u disagree w him???


Drivers wouldn't need to bother. Drunk pax will perform that duty... or should I say "doodie" on their own. People will get into urine and vomit filled cars that will literally sit in the street corner as drunk people cross the street illegally in front of them for hours. Like I said before, we're dealing with chaos here... these are not orderly business travelers being picked up in private neighborhoods and wisked to buildings with loading zones and/or big parking lots, with mostly freeway driving. The author of the article is def. on to something... now imagine a busy bar district with his excellent points... You'll either have to program the car to mow people down or to literally sit there for an hour while people ignore traffic and stumble accross the street to drink more at the next bar.

There is absolutely no infrastructure in many of these bar districts for the cars to be programmed to follow every regulation by the book. There is usually ZERO parking, NO loading zones, no shoulder, or really anything resembling a place to 'legally' stop. One must literally contact the pax immediately so they get to your car quickly, as they throw their hazards on, with angry drivers behind them as the drunk pax get into the car, trying to get into some space where they're causing as little traffic problems as possible, and sometimes having to negotiate a safe place to pick the pax up based on the constantly changing landscape. How about having the wrong pax get into cars, even after they're told they're the wrong ones and refusing to leave because they're too drunk to know what's going on.

As long as you have human beings, you will have irrational chaos. Their interfacing with the creations of 'highly rational' semi-sociopathic types will not fall into line like the linear thinking gung-ho engineers think. There is A LOT more to driving drunk people around than operating the vehicle. You are keeping pax safe from themselves and others. You are navagating through a sea of chemically irrational people who will act unpredictably. There are even reports on the Seattle forum of drunk UberPOOL pax trying to rape passed out female pax WITH a driver in the car. Imagine a driverless UberPOOL car, matching drunk people and driving them around without anyone else to know what's going on in there... sounds like the perfect place for rapists to take advantage of females who've had too much to drink. Imagine two angry drunk pax getting into a violent fight in a driverless UberPOOL car and only one of them walks out of the car alive. No driver to stop things as they get out of hand. Bars have bouncers for a reason. These engineers aren't out there driving people around at 2 in the morning when the human race tends to throw all the rules of order out the window.


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## K-pax

Elder66 said:


> Simple. People will start paying attention once they start getting pancaked by these cars. Good old skid marks on their asses.


Nope. There are districts of Seattle where people get hit by cars constantly. They still just casually walk accross the street without even looking or caring... and then if you start seeing people getting pancaked by autonomous cars, it throws the entire concept out the window as "safer". I've even seen people casually walk across 4 lane arterial highway(ish) roads with a 45mph speed limit and hold their hand up at the cars as if some magical force field with protect their drunk butts. Most people are not rational. Rational people making decisions for irrational people will not make them rational. They will just keep making irrational decisions with whatever tech is given to them.


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## K-pax

RamzFanz said:


> You fine the jaywalkers until they stop doing it. Hefty and escalating fines.


I see.. so you fine every single person in a crowd of 100+ people walking in a chaotic mess around a bar district? Have you ever been to a busy bar district late into the night? There is no order whatsoever, and the police have their hands full enough trying to deal with the crazy things that drunk people do (commit crimes, get into violent altercations, sexually assault people, become a danger to themselves, make bad choices that put them in danger, etc). The last thing police patrolling the bar district at night care about are jaywalkers. They're trying to keep the drunken mass of humans from annihilating each other or themselves. You aren't thinking about the real world. Drunk people are not rational. Even most rational people, when drunk, are not rational. You would literally have to bring out the riot squad every night to enforce something like that... then back to what people are saying about this techie dystopia...


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## K-pax

RamzFanz said:


> 2-3 years. You said 30 but you must have meant 2-3. Or do we go with an Uber your predictions over a computer engineer and almost every major auto and tech company in the world?
> 
> SDCs don't need infrastructure changes and are on the roads with humans all day every day and have been for many years. Yes, it's a learning curve, but we are in the end game, not the beginning.


They had cars that could convert into airplanes for a long time. They were not practical. Tech is neat, but just because you have an SDC that technically works for some applications, does not mean it's practical in all cases.



RamzFanz said:


> The same as we do with the people from the 3,000,000 jobs a year that go away, create new jobs. Besides, the cost of living is about to plummet so you won't have to work as many hours to maintain the same standard of living.


Prosperity drives the cost of living up. In Seattle, a very much growing tech city, you are starting to see a very huge rift between people who work for the tech industry and everyone else. The cost of living is going through the roof, and only people who work in the singular industry of tech can afford it. Everyone else is just getting 2-3 jobs, becoming working homeless, having to move in with family, or literally leave the state completely. Not everyone has an aptitude for highly left brained things like coding. The rise in economic power does create jobs to service these new 'elite' technocrats, but they are busy at work making sure every single thing that isn't their own job is made obsolete. In other words, they got theirs, and they want everyone else to F$&% off and die... if they don't F$&$ off and die, they will make sure to engineer a way to make it happen by making sure that anyone who isn't in the tech industry has no way to survive or prosper from the prosperity that the tech creates. But hey, everyone can work for a tech company and make six figures, right? You're in a bubble, bro. Leave the gated community and smell the homeless shelter.


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## flexian

prediction -

autocars in seattle will be more like opium dens on wheels (than port a potties),,,,,,

mints bottled water and clean needles

on demand


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## Fubernuber

Yam Digger said:


> Wow! Life must be really sweet up there on planet La-La-Land. It's such a pity the reality over here on planet Earth where the rest of live isn't as rosie.


Dont discourage him. We need people like him. They are easy targets, pushovers, bend over easily when told to do so. Most importantly he is a basement visionary. Alot like him become millionares from the comfort of their mommas garage. Most will stay in their safe places however but still peoplr like him serve an important purpose


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## Fubernuber

Yam Digger said:


> I took the time and effort to read Mein Kampf in its entirety. At the beginning of the book, I thought Hitler was just being facetious and practicing the art of propaganda he's well known for on his readers. But by the time I got to the end, I realized Hitler actually, totally believed his own horse-shit! People like that are fricking dangerous to the rest of us because they will happily commit atrocities, totally believing that what they're doing is right and just!


Hard to equate hitler to liberals in america. I get what youre saying but i think liberals are more likely to hurt their own people than complete strangers. Its a thing about hitler that one must admire. Unlike stalin who killed millions of his own, hitler killed millions of strangers to better his own people. Both very sick people who deserved to be skinned alive but still...


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## Fubernuber

Yam Digger said:


> I agree that was a rather extreme analogy. Though the same principle applies. When someone is thoroughly convinced their nonsense is right, they will move heaven and earth to force it down the rest of our throats.
> 
> At first I thought Travis was using this autonomous car nonsense to raise more venture capital. But know I realize that he totally believes the world will bend back ways, to help him implement his vision no matter how impractical it is.


 I hope travis gets run over by an uber but then liberals will cry and not spend on ubers in manhattan the liberal mecca


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## flexian

autocars are uber's only hope.......ipo will tank w/out a visionary scheme


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## flexian

K-pax said:


> Nope. There are districts of Seattle where people get hit by cars constantly. They still just casually walk accross the street without even looking or caring... and then if you start seeing people getting pancaked by autonomous cars, it throws the entire concept out the window as "safer". I've even seen people casually walk across 4 lane arterial highway(ish) roads with a 45mph speed limit and hold their hand up at the cars as if some magical force field with protect their drunk butts. Most people are not rational. Rational people making decisions for irrational people will not make them rational. They will just keep making irrational decisions with whatever tech is given to them.


autocars will have a wedge shape & covered wheels to push thru crowds ......and quick lateral motion (via electric power & special office chair wheels) 4 evading jaywalkers

& no windows (unnecessary expense),,,,only cameras needed


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## Fubernuber

I wonder how many millions uber will pay to riders that sit on the hep. C needle left behind by previous pool rider. How about people raped while a robot is in charge. No worries tho riders will be safe in a metal cubicle thats sterilized after each and every ride by an automated flame thrower exhausted out the chimney. The funniest part is all the v.c.s are salivating over ubers plans. These people are supposed to be smart. In reality they are just rich


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## Fubernuber

"I was raped in an uber pool autocar by a heshe. I can not identify himher because heshe looked like a manwoman. Shehe had a penis or a *****. Heshe covered my mouth so i couldnt scream for help and restrained my hands so i couldnt move. Actually i dont remember moving or screming because i was completely drunk". 
After a 50 million dollar settlement from uber:
"Honey that was fun now we should do it again to lyft but this time i am wearing a mask not makeup"


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## RamzFanz

K-pax said:


> I see.. so you fine every single person in a crowd of 100+ people walking in a chaotic mess around a bar district? Have you ever been to a busy bar district late into the night? There is no order whatsoever, and the police have their hands full enough trying to deal with the crazy things that drunk people do (commit crimes, get into violent altercations, sexually assault people, become a danger to themselves, make bad choices that put them in danger, etc). The last thing police patrolling the bar district at night care about are jaywalkers. They're trying to keep the drunken mass of humans from annihilating each other or themselves. You aren't thinking about the real world. Drunk people are not rational. Even most rational people, when drunk, are not rational. You would literally have to bring out the riot squad every night to enforce something like that... then back to what people are saying about this techie dystopia...


NYC used to have gridlock at every intersection until they painted a grid and started handing out massive fines if you were caught in the grid. It doesn't take long for people to figure it out. You warn people it's coming. You put up signs. You start issuing tickets. People catch on. It doesn't need to be perfect, just passable. If humans can get through it, so can SDCs. Point being, whatever approach they take, it's just something they need to figure out.


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## RamzFanz

K-pax said:


> They had cars that could convert into airplanes for a long time. They were not practical. Tech is neat, but just because you have an SDC that technically works for some applications, does not mean it's practical in all cases.


Flying cars have never yet been practical. Unstable and needing to be piloted. SDCs are the first step. Once they master latitude and longitude, they can work on altitude. The technology that would allow for safe and stable self piloted flying machines is almost here. Quadcopters are proving to be very stable and safe. All we probably need are lighter and more powerful batteries which appear to be on the horizon. Airbus is saying they will have a prototype out this year.

As far as SDCs, you're exactly right. No one thinks they'll be truly level 5 fully autonomous when they are introduced. They will be driverless but geographically and speed limited and probably limited in some weather. That doesn't mean they aren't coming after our low hanging fruit in the next 2-3 years, though.



K-pax said:


> Prosperity drives the cost of living up. In Seattle, a very much growing tech city, you are starting to see a very huge rift between people who work for the tech industry and everyone else. The cost of living is going through the roof, and only people who work in the singular industry of tech can afford it. Everyone else is just getting 2-3 jobs, becoming working homeless, having to move in with family, or literally leave the state completely. Not everyone has an aptitude for highly left brained things like coding. The rise in economic power does create jobs to service these new 'elite' technocrats, but they are busy at work making sure every single thing that isn't their own job is made obsolete. In other words, they got theirs, and they want everyone else to F$&% off and die... if they don't F$&$ off and die, they will make sure to engineer a way to make it happen by making sure that anyone who isn't in the tech industry has no way to survive or prosper from the prosperity that the tech creates. But hey, everyone can work for a tech company and make six figures, right? You're in a bubble, bro. Leave the gated community and smell the homeless shelter.


Yep. Prosperity drives the cost of living up in affected areas. For the general populace though, the cost of living is going to plummet. Almost everything will be cheaper. I read somewhere that the retail cost of an item is 60% transportation? Whatever the number, it's large and it will affect almost everything.

Tech companies aren't evil empires trying to economically drown their own customers. Comeonman. Our economy adapts. New opportunities will arise that have nothing to do with coding. This is the time to consider those opportunities and prepare for them.


----------



## heynow321

RamzFanz said:


> OK, well, here you go:
> 
> You fine the jaywalkers until they stop doing it. Hefty and escalating fines.


and how is that going to work? cop on every corner watching people? cameras on the cars themselves? (except how do we know anyone's identity?)


----------



## flexian

heynow321 said:


> and how is that going to work? cop on every corner watching people? cameras on the cars themselves? (except how do we know anyone's identity?)


once kalnaick becomes a billionaire post-ipo......he will play politicks & make interference w/autocars to = "terrorism"

otherwise it wont work.......


----------



## K-pax

heynow321 said:


> and how is that going to work? cop on every corner watching people? cameras on the cars themselves? (except how do we know anyone's identity?)


By having a high tech surveillance/police state where there's no such thing as privacy, enforcement of every petty offense is automatically enforced by 'rational' computers, and a 'penalty system' that affects the poor bbut not the affluent as the companies who make the tech put people out of work and raise the cost of living so only their employees (sycophants) can afford it. But at least we'll have self driving cars. It'll be utopia.


----------



## flexian

Fubernuber said:


> I wonder how many millions uber will pay to riders that sit on the hep. C needle left behind by previous pool rider. How about people raped while a robot is in charge. No worries tho riders will be safe in a metal cubicle thats sterilized after each and every ride by an automated flame thrower exhausted out the chimney. The funniest part is all the v.c.s are salivating over ubers plans. These people are supposed to be smart. In reality they are just rich


i heard the vc money (well other ppls money given to vcs to invest) is a tax write-off.....so its like a billion dollar lottery

uber wont pay anything....riders will be forced to agree to arbitration....clause will be posted above entry door


----------



## K-pax

RamzFanz said:


> Yep. Prosperity drives the cost of living up in affected areas. For the general populace though, the cost of living is going to plummet. Almost everything will be cheaper. I read somewhere that the retail cost of an item is 60% transportation? Whatever the number, it's large and it will affect almost everything.
> 
> Tech companies aren't evil empires trying to economically drown their own customers. Comeonman. Our economy adapts. New opportunities will arise that have nothing to do with coding. This is the time to consider those opportunities and prepare for them.


The thing is, I'm very much a techie. Used computers almost my whole life. I'm a geek who loves my gadgets. I use technology to work. I think tech mega corporations are absolutely the new big banks/big oil style evil empires. I live in a city where a lot of that is focused and what I see is an affluent tech class who are being paid big money. Half the city is torn down and gentrified to the max in order to make it a playground for the rich tech elite while the cost of living squeezes everyone else. Homelessness is through the roof and the only 'solution' is to sweep out the homeless camps so the rich tech workers don't have to walk past it on their way to Google, Facebook, or Amazon.

You see an increase of business for things like uber or other service jobs so that, at the time being, there are ways to prosper from this growing economic sector. This tech elite are doing everything they can to make sure nobody who isn't an engineer or other such tech worker can survive, while they live in the lap of luxury. I drive these ppl around. They live in mega-expensive gated communities and million dollar high rise condos. There is a complete disconnect and disregard for a mass of 'non-tech workers' struggling to get by in an increasingly expensive state. It's this general sociopathic 'i got mine' attitude which is wreaking havoc and showing that when the nerds take over they become as big of selfish monsters as any other powerful elite. New boss same as the old boss, though this one is more efficient and smarter, so potentially worse.

I am not 'low hanging fruit'. I have two college degrees, and trying to drive Uber to get ahead so I can prosper and put my education and skills to work.


----------



## flexian

K-pax said:


> This tech elite are doing everything they can to make sure nobody who isn't an engineer or other such tech worker can survive, while they live in the lap of luxury. I drive these ppl around. They live in mega-expensive gated communities and million dollar high rise condos. There is a complete disconnect and disregard for a mass of 'non-tech workers' struggling to get by in an increasingly expensive state. It's this general sociopathic 'i got mine' attitude which is wreaking havoc and showing that when the nerds take over they become as big of selfish monsters as any other powerful elite. New boss same as the old boss, though this one is more efficient and smarter, so potentially worse.


they were like that 1st, and then went into tech

mbas dont do finance anymore, they want tech.....same w ivy league types

tech is evil now,,,,,,not 2 mention fake & staged

none of these ppl are nerds or geeks, but they inherited the culture from the tech fringe of the 90s.....dont be fooled


----------



## flexian

the only thing uber, delivery, new tech have done is automate making contracts

so the have-have nots divide = contract creators-contract fulfillers

this is not innovation.....


----------



## circle1

TheAutomator said:


> My thoughts are that self driving cars cannot happen unless all of the infrastructure around them (roads, traffic signalling, etc) are designed around them. You would also need ALL of the cars on the road to be autonomous (and for them to have some direct way to talk to and network with each other). Mixing autonomous and non autonomous just doesn't work.


. . . X-zactly, in order for autonomous vehicles to work we'd have to separate vehicular pathways from ped pathways. Which should be doing RIGHT NOW anyways!


----------



## circle1

Elder66 said:


> Umm yes it would be. Computer engineer is not a politican and a politican is not a computer engineer.
> 
> Some fields require more than a yes no answer or black white though process.


The world would be _*F A R*_ better off without politicians!!


----------



## circle1

TheAutomator said:


> They do take into consideration non-technical aspects of the world. What they tend to reject are the emotionally driven irrational aspects of the world. These are the things that lead us to such wonderful outcomes as never ending wars that benefit no one (except for weapons manufacturers), or to avoid teaching children about sex because we don't want them having kids (when in reality, data shows that children who learn about sex have less unwanted pregnancies). The data is there, but irrational, emotionally driven actors, hide from it and make poor decisions for society.


THANK YOU


----------



## K-pax

flexian said:


> prediction -
> 
> autocars in seattle will be more like opium dens on wheels (than port a potties),,,,,,
> 
> mints bottled water and clean needles
> 
> on demand


Pretty much.


----------



## circle1

flexian said:


> the only thing uber, delivery, new tech have done is _*automate making contracts*_


This is why TNC contractors need an advocacy group or association.


----------



## K-pax

RamzFanz said:


> NYC used to have gridlock at every intersection until they painted a grid and started handing out massive fines if you were caught in the grid. It doesn't take long for people to figure it out. You warn people it's coming. You put up signs. You start issuing tickets. People catch on. It doesn't need to be perfect, just passable. If humans can get through it, so can SDCs. Point being, whatever approach they take, it's just something they need to figure out.


This is Seattle, not NYC. Veeeeeerry different culture out here. Not going to happen. It's not even on the Seattle PD's priority list. If anything the city would cater to jaywalkers even more by giving the fines to motorists. Again, you must have never been to one of these areas and no, the police do not have to waste resources ticketing thousands of drunk people a night, while ignoring rapes, assaults, robberies and murders just so you can enrich yourself financially. The bar district is going to be chaos. The PD and city know it so they just try to keep it contained and keep people safe. NYC is a surveillance state hell hole, but new yorkers are willing to deal with it. Not the same culture here. We don't evenhave DUI checkpoints because it's a constitutional violation here. some cities have taken red light cameras out because of privacy concerns. WA is very different than the culture of NYC


----------



## UberAnt39

Yam Digger said:


> http://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news...troy-the-autonomous-car/ar-AAlWKtF?li=AAggNb9
> 
> *How Pedestrians Will Destroy the Autonomous Car*
> 
> There is much optimism regarding the arrival of self-driving cars. We will be saved by autonomous cars, people say. Autonomous cars will allow us to nap, work, smoke weed, have sex (with others and with ourselves), go nuts with social media, and generally slide into a lazy digital coma as the vehicle autonomously and safely delivers us to important places.
> 
> The problem is if you live in any existing city, with an existing infrastructure, there's a good chance you won't be going anywhere in an autonomous anything. In an irony so rich and timely-the year after car-related traffic fatalities jumped up to 40,000, primarily on the strength of new vehicle-on-pedestrian deaths-the entire conceit of the self-driving car has a logic flaw that will allow pedestrians to render them immobile, like Obi Wan striking a stormtrooper dumb with the wave of a hand.
> 
> A self-driving car must follow the rules of the road. In any situation, it must yield to animals, pedestrians, bikers and anything else that moves (or doesn't). It's a highly conservative software solution to a natural skittishness that humans have to robotic vehicles. In New York City-and any urban environment with an existing infrastructure, but mostly NYC because our pedestrians and bikers can be really obnoxious-this logic will end the moment of the autonomous car about 30 minutes after it starts.
> 
> That's about how long it'll take for the 8 million people on the city sidewalks figure out all they need to do to cross the street _whenever they want_ is simply _cross the street_. Self-driving cars will be forced to stop.
> 
> Gridlock will ensue. The self-driving car passenger will sit helplessly in his passenger seat, vaping dismally while bikers and walkers pass in front of him in an endless line. The police will have to be summoned.
> 
> Game over.
> 
> In New York City and other urban areas, there is an unspoken understanding that lets cars move and helps (most) pedestrians survive a commute. Don't just walk into the street against a light because a cabbie or a FreshDirect driver might happily splat you just to make a stale crosstown green. That's really the only thing holding the city together.
> 
> "From the point of view of a passenger in an automated car, it would be like driving down a street filled with unaccompanied five-year-old children, writes Adam Millard-Ball, an assistant professor of environmental studies at the University of California, Santa Cruz. Millard-Ball uses game theory to create a game of what he calls "crosswalk chicken" between pedestrians and self-driving cars.
> 
> In a risky situation, the autonomous car slows down and lets the pedestrian go by. Therefore, Millard-Ball writers, "safer cars provoke a rational response by pedestrians and other road users. Secure in the knowledge that a car will yield, pedestrians can cross with impunity. They need merely to act unpredictably or step into the street to force risk-averse cars to slow down."
> 
> Crosswalks pose an interesting problem. Normal cars-the ones with drivers with emotions and smartphones and delivery schedules-are required by law to yield, but enforcement is minimal. As Millard-Ball puts it, "A pedestrian wishes to cross as soon as possible. The driver prefers to avoid stopping." A collision represents the worst outcome for both sides, but particularly for the biped, who is highly unlikely to take the risk.
> 
> However, with the autonomous car, that risk is eliminated. The pedestrians-millions of them-will cross, and the autonomous car will stop, a robot devoid of rage.
> 
> In Manhattan, there is almost no solution to this new risk equation. Do we build walls and gates on every city block to hem in pedestrians? Do we use facial recognition software to target all the pedestrians who jaywalk? These are infrastructural projects as intensive as the Second Avenue Subway. We haven't even touched on how the super aggro community of NYC bikers are going to respond to the news that they can stun road traffic by riding wherever the hell they want.
> 
> Autonomous cars? Sure. In NYC? Not likely.


San Francisco pedestrians do that already. And as for the zombies..


----------



## K-pax

UberAnt39 said:


> San Francisco pedestrians do that already. And as for the zombies..


Seattle is SF north. Same.


----------



## UberAnt39

TheAutomator said:


> Not really (but it makes for a nice quip). All people have a rational and irrational side to them, in some proportion or another. People tend to lean one way or the other, but no person is just one.


You clearly haven't read enough posts on this forum to become properly acquainted with some of our more illustrious members.


----------



## UberAnt39

K-pax said:


> Seattle is SF north. Same.


And apparently we're shipping you & Portland more of them every month. Enjoy.


----------



## K-pax

UberAnt39 said:


> And apparently we're shipping you & Portland more of them every month. Enjoy.


Yep. Hundreds. A week.


----------



## circle1

K-pax said:


> Nope. There are districts of Seattle where people get hit by cars constantly. They still just casually walk accross the street without even looking or caring... and then if you start seeing people getting pancaked by autonomous cars, it throws the entire concept out the window as "safer". I've even seen people casually walk across 4 lane arterial highway(ish) roads with a 45mph speed limit and hold their hand up at the cars as if some magical force field with protect their drunk butts. Most people are not rational. Rational people making decisions for irrational people will not make them rational. They will just keep making irrational decisions with whatever tech is given to them.


Haha . . . a quick side story . . . during Hempfest, in downtown Seattle (on 3rd Ave near Bell St), I actually saw a group of pedestrians ('bout 5 of'em) stand at a crosswalk facing the ped light that said WALK. They stood there not budging an inch . . . when their ped light turned to WAIT they ALL SIMULTANEOUSLY began to walk _*against the light*_!!!


----------



## circle1

K-pax said:


> This is Seattle, not NYC. Veeeeeerry different culture out here. Not going to happen. It's not even on the Seattle PD's priority list. If anything the city would cater to jaywalkers even more by giving the fines to motorists.


Seriously! They would do well to just cordon-off some sections of downtown (with parking lots all along the borders), and make pedestrian only zones, or as they call them in Germany, "fussgängerzone."


----------



## Fubernuber

RamzFanz said:


> NYC used to have gridlock at every intersection until they painted a grid and started handing out massive fines if you were caught in the grid. It doesn't take long for people to figure it out. You warn people it's coming. You put up signs. You start issuing tickets. People catch on. It doesn't need to be perfect, just passable. If humans can get through it, so can SDCs. Point being, whatever approach they take, it's just something they need to figure out.


You are a liberobot. You have been outed. Bend over and let uber make you smile.


----------



## Fubernuber

Yam Digger said:


> There ain't gonna be no IPO. When a company starts the process of getting listed, they have to open up the accounting ledgers for the world to see...something Uber HATES doing. Uber wants the world to think that it's making money hand over fist but an anonymous insider told Bloomberg that Uber is hemorrhaging money at the rate of 2 billion a year
> 
> When the ledgers are opened, the world will see that Travis is a brazen lier and NOBODY with common sense will put a penny in that IPO....and Travis knows that.


I also imagine a day when uber realizes that their service, support, and i.p. is worth much less than that of established giants like ebay and amazon who charge a low 2% for their giant partners and 4% for the average active partner on most categories plus another 2% for payment proccess. Imagine the blood bath when a giant company like apple or ford wants to muscle in on ubers model. What do they do? Same thing that gett and juno does except they spend big money on marketing ans subsidies. Uber is a sinking ship and they will sink via mutiny. Their investors will wake up one day and realize they were duped


----------



## RamzFanz

heynow321 said:


> and how is that going to work? cop on every corner watching people? cameras on the cars themselves? (except how do we know anyone's identity?)


You have nights where you put metermaids out there to write tickets until it stops. Just like we do with every other behavior we change. Why don't people speed or drive drunk everywhere?


----------



## RamzFanz

K-pax said:


> This is Seattle, not NYC. Veeeeeerry different culture out here. Not going to happen. It's not even on the Seattle PD's priority list. If anything the city would cater to jaywalkers even more by giving the fines to motorists. Again, you must have never been to one of these areas and no, the police do not have to waste resources ticketing thousands of drunk people a night, while ignoring rapes, assaults, robberies and murders just so you can enrich yourself financially. The bar district is going to be chaos. The PD and city know it so they just try to keep it contained and keep people safe. NYC is a surveillance state hell hole, but new yorkers are willing to deal with it. Not the same culture here. We don't evenhave DUI checkpoints because it's a constitutional violation here. some cities have taken red light cameras out because of privacy concerns. WA is very different than the culture of NYC


You make no sense dude. Writing tickets isn't using resources, it's creating resources. You start with a public campaign, put up signs, a few weeks of warnings, then $200 tickets. Just like we do with every other behavior.


----------



## RamzFanz

Yam Digger said:


> You just provided a very good example of why driverless cars won't work.


Because why? If humans can negotiate a few jaywalkers, so can SDCs.


----------



## RamzFanz

K-pax said:


> The thing is, I'm very much a techie. Used computers almost my whole life. I'm a geek who loves my gadgets. I use technology to work. I think tech mega corporations are absolutely the new big banks/big oil style evil empires. I live in a city where a lot of that is focused and what I see is an affluent tech class who are being paid big money. Half the city is torn down and gentrified to the max in order to make it a playground for the rich tech elite while the cost of living squeezes everyone else. Homelessness is through the roof and the only 'solution' is to sweep out the homeless camps so the rich tech workers don't have to walk past it on their way to Google, Facebook, or Amazon.
> 
> You see an increase of business for things like uber or other service jobs so that, at the time being, there are ways to prosper from this growing economic sector. This tech elite are doing everything they can to make sure nobody who isn't an engineer or other such tech worker can survive, while they live in the lap of luxury. I drive these ppl around. They live in mega-expensive gated communities and million dollar high rise condos. There is a complete disconnect and disregard for a mass of 'non-tech workers' struggling to get by in an increasingly expensive state. It's this general sociopathic 'i got mine' attitude which is wreaking havoc and showing that when the nerds take over they become as big of selfish monsters as any other powerful elite. New boss same as the old boss, though this one is more efficient and smarter, so potentially worse.
> 
> I am not 'low hanging fruit'. I have two college degrees, and trying to drive Uber to get ahead so I can prosper and put my education and skills to work.


This is why we have 50 states. Pick a better one. Liberal elitism has infested your city.


----------



## RamzFanz

Fubernuber said:


> I also imagine a day when uber realizes that their service, support, and i.p. is worth much less than that of established giants like ebay and amazon who charge a low 2% for their giant partners and 4% for the average active partner on most categories plus another 2% for payment proccess. Imagine the blood bath when a giant company like apple or ford wants to muscle in on ubers model. What do they do? Same thing that gett and juno does except they spend big money on marketing ans subsidies. Uber is a sinking ship and they will sink via mutiny. Their investors will wake up one day and realize they were duped


Uh, no. I sell on both in my fulltime business and that is nowhere near their fees.


----------



## K-pax

RamzFanz said:


> You have nights where you put metermaids out there to write tickets until it stops. Just like we do with every other behavior we change. Why don't people speed or drive drunk everywhere?


Ok, so you are going to send out meter-maids to engage in crowd control over hundreds of completely smashed people, and then start writing them tickets one by one ("hey... crowd! You wait right here! I'm gonna write you all a bunch of tickets! Gt in a single file line. Don't you dare leave! I mean it!") until every single person has been taught a lesson for stumbling drunk around in the street. Sounds like you will need the riot squad after all. Then that rape across town doesn't get responded to when the scene you've created requires a large police presence to restore order from the throngs of angry drunk people, all because RamzFanz wants his self-driving car to wisk him away to his gated community so he can bed with his sex robot, Marge and not have to interact with any dirty filthy humons.


----------



## K-pax

RamzFanz said:


> You make no sense dude. Writing tickets isn't using resources, it's creating resources. You start with a public campaign, put up signs, a few weeks of warnings, then $200 tickets. Just like we do with every other behavior.


In a small town, maybe... The city, especially at night, is way too chaotic for cops to worry about things like jaywalking. They're busy actually trying to keep nightlife safe from itself and others. And again... this is not NYC. The culture of Seattle would never put up with things that New Yorkers put up with. I can't imagine the city of Seattle writing people $200 tickets for jaywalking. There would be masked people burning cars and smashing Starbucks windows for the news cameras, marching in the streets about the heavy handed police department, demanding the police chief resign. NYPD are more like a militarized force, known for being very racist, corrupt, and resorting to brutality more than it should. NYC is a surveillance state hell hole. I feel very uncomfortable any time I've gone there, because it's one of the most grid iron big brother type places out there since 9/11. There is SOME of that here, but the west coast in general really starts getting uncomfortable with TOO much of an iron thumb put onto them.


----------



## K-pax

RamzFanz said:


> This is why we have 50 states. Pick a better one. Liberal elitism has infested your city.


So... leave all my friends and family and the place I was born and raised and move where? The rust belt? What am i, a refugee now? I like liberal states. I get along very well with a lotof liberal politics. I just don't like elitism.


----------



## Fubernuber

RamzFanz said:


> Uh, no. I sell on both in my fulltime business and that is nowhere near their fees.


That is exactly their fe structure or less for active sellers who turn volume. Clearly you are not and never had your own dedicated rep with button pushing power because if you did you would know what i know


----------



## Fubernuber

RamzFanz said:


> This is why we have 50 states. Pick a better one. Liberal elitism has infested your city.


Its odd you say that. I would have bet you are a hillary cupcake with a bernie sticker on your bumper. You are a walking talking contradiction. Maybe you are a left leaning independent. Anyways you paint a rosy picture of the world in which there are NO alligators waiting to literally eat you out of a manhole cover. If you dont have such a view then you really do live the good life. I can tell you that there is the real world that is filled with grime, crime and tears then there is a make believe world where people manage to navigate around the gritty and never get eaten simply because they are good at dodgeball. Uber is that alligator. The really big one. Much like amazon. It eats everything in its way. Unlike amazon that actually created some millionare partners, uber destroys everythint in its wake except the tourists on water skiis.


----------



## WVboyinOH

Yam Digger said:


> http://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news...troy-the-autonomous-car/ar-AAlWKtF?li=AAggNb9
> 
> *How Pedestrians Will Destroy the Autonomous Car*
> 
> There is much optimism regarding the arrival of self-driving cars. We will be saved by autonomous cars, people say. Autonomous cars will allow us to nap, work, smoke weed, have sex (with others and with ourselves), go nuts with social media, and generally slide into a lazy digital coma as the vehicle autonomously and safely delivers us to important places.
> 
> The problem is if you live in any existing city, with an existing infrastructure, there's a good chance you won't be going anywhere in an autonomous anything. In an irony so rich and timely-the year after car-related traffic fatalities jumped up to 40,000, primarily on the strength of new vehicle-on-pedestrian deaths-the entire conceit of the self-driving car has a logic flaw that will allow pedestrians to render them immobile, like Obi Wan striking a stormtrooper dumb with the wave of a hand.
> 
> A self-driving car must follow the rules of the road. In any situation, it must yield to animals, pedestrians, bikers and anything else that moves (or doesn't). It's a highly conservative software solution to a natural skittishness that humans have to robotic vehicles. In New York City-and any urban environment with an existing infrastructure, but mostly NYC because our pedestrians and bikers can be really obnoxious-this logic will end the moment of the autonomous car about 30 minutes after it starts.
> 
> That's about how long it'll take for the 8 million people on the city sidewalks figure out all they need to do to cross the street _whenever they want_ is simply _cross the street_. Self-driving cars will be forced to stop.
> 
> Gridlock will ensue. The self-driving car passenger will sit helplessly in his passenger seat, vaping dismally while bikers and walkers pass in front of him in an endless line. The police will have to be summoned.
> 
> Game over.
> 
> In New York City and other urban areas, there is an unspoken understanding that lets cars move and helps (most) pedestrians survive a commute. Don't just walk into the street against a light because a cabbie or a FreshDirect driver might happily splat you just to make a stale crosstown green. That's really the only thing holding the city together.
> 
> "From the point of view of a passenger in an automated car, it would be like driving down a street filled with unaccompanied five-year-old children, writes Adam Millard-Ball, an assistant professor of environmental studies at the University of California, Santa Cruz. Millard-Ball uses game theory to create a game of what he calls "crosswalk chicken" between pedestrians and self-driving cars.
> 
> In a risky situation, the autonomous car slows down and lets the pedestrian go by. Therefore, Millard-Ball writers, "safer cars provoke a rational response by pedestrians and other road users. Secure in the knowledge that a car will yield, pedestrians can cross with impunity. They need merely to act unpredictably or step into the street to force risk-averse cars to slow down."
> 
> Crosswalks pose an interesting problem. Normal cars-the ones with drivers with emotions and smartphones and delivery schedules-are required by law to yield, but enforcement is minimal. As Millard-Ball puts it, "A pedestrian wishes to cross as soon as possible. The driver prefers to avoid stopping." A collision represents the worst outcome for both sides, but particularly for the biped, who is highly unlikely to take the risk.
> 
> However, with the autonomous car, that risk is eliminated. The pedestrians-millions of them-will cross, and the autonomous car will stop, a robot devoid of rage.
> 
> In Manhattan, there is almost no solution to this new risk equation. Do we build walls and gates on every city block to hem in pedestrians? Do we use facial recognition software to target all the pedestrians who jaywalk? These are infrastructural projects as intensive as the Second Avenue Subway. We haven't even touched on how the super aggro community of NYC bikers are going to respond to the news that they can stun road traffic by riding wherever the hell they want.
> 
> Autonomous cars? Sure. In NYC? Not likely.


From and economics standpoint, autonomous cars in the ride-hailing industry doesn't hold water either. Right now, this R&D is being funded by Alphabet, Ford, GM, and Volvo. Currently, for Uber and Lyft, the cost of the vehicle, fuel, and maintenance is being absorbed by the driver/owner. If this concept does become reality, the ride-share companies will become responsible for the the cost of the vehicle, fuel, maintenance, and administration of the fleet. Adding in the additional cost of an estimated $7,000 to $10,000 per vehicle to make them level 4 autonomous, will make this concept unaffordable for the consumer ride-share fares. And EV's won't be an option either. The ride-share companies would need to keep these vehicles operating 24-7 and the time to re-charge would diminish an chance of profitability. Lastly, what will be the secondary (Used Car) market for an autonomous car? I guess time will tell - history will be the judge.

By the way, who refuels a level 4 autonomous Uber car?


----------



## flexian

WVboyinOH said:


> From and economics standpoint, autonomous cars in the ride-hailing industry doesn't hold water either. Right now, this R&D is being funded by Alphabet, Ford, GM, and Volvo. Currently, for Uber and Lyft, the cost of the vehicle, fuel, and maintenance is being absorbed by the driver/owner. If this concept does become reality, the ride-share companies will become responsible for the the cost of the vehicle, fuel, maintenance, and administration of the fleet. Adding in the additional cost of an estimated $7,000 to $10,000 per vehicle to make them level 4 autonomous, will make this concept unaffordable for the consumer ride-share fares. And EV's won't be an option either. The ride-share companies would need to keep these vehicles operating 24-7 and the time to re-charge would diminish an chance of profitability. Lastly, what will be the secondary (Used Car) market for an autonomous car? I guess time will tell - history will be the judge.
> 
> By the way, who refuels a level 4 autonomous Uber car?


theyll pop in a dashboard where the stereo used to be, itll be its own industry like the cell phone

when ur at work ur car will scoot about depreciaating i mean making money


----------



## flexian

circle1 said:


> This is why TNC contractors need an advocacy group or association.


yeah,,,,but until then......

best thing is to help ICs know they aren't = entrepreneurs....

they r not on 2 sides of the same coin

they r on different coins.

they r at the bottom of a pyramid of contracts....(& customer holds them acctable for actions of those @ the top)


----------



## WeirdBob

RamzFanz said:


> You have nights where you put metermaids out there to write tickets until it stops. Just like we do with every other behavior we change. Why don't people speed or drive drunk everywhere?


WOW! Do you REALLY think people are not speeding or driving drunk all over the country?


----------



## Fubernuber

K-pax said:


> So... leave all my friends and family and the place I was born and raised and move where? The rust belt? What am i, a refugee now? I like liberal states. I get along very well with a lotof liberal politics. I just don't like elitism.


I too like some parts of liberalism i just hate what it leads to. Flawed politics just like socialism and communism. America didnt have this liberal infection for most of its life and america needs to cut it out like cancer because thats what it is


WeirdBob said:


> WOW! Do you REALLY think people are not speeding or driving drunk all over the country?


He thinks liberals dont speed or drive drunk. In his defense i too believe liberals are better rounded citizens. Less cursing, less fighting, less drunk driving, less killing, less tipping. Less is more. Protesting however is a different story. You cant send them to a battlefield but but give them a sharpie and piece of paper.....


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## RamzFanz

K-pax said:


> Ok, so you are going to send out meter-maids to engage in crowd control over hundreds of completely smashed people, and then start writing them tickets one by one ("hey... crowd! You wait right here! I'm gonna write you all a bunch of tickets! Gt in a single file line. Don't you dare leave! I mean it!") until every single person has been taught a lesson for stumbling drunk around in the street. Sounds like you will need the riot squad after all. Then that rape across town doesn't get responded to when the scene you've created requires a large police presence to restore order from the throngs of angry drunk people, all because RamzFanz wants his self-driving car to wisk him away to his gated community so he can bed with his sex robot, Marge and not have to interact with any dirty filthy humons.


Nope. Not what I said. First you do ads, then you do signs, then you do warning tickets. That gets through to most of them. Then you start ticketing and that gets through to almost all of them in time. Just like we do for all behaviors we want to curtail. Not sure what you don't get.


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## RamzFanz

WeirdBob said:


> WOW! Do you REALLY think people are not speeding or driving drunk all over the country?


Yes, they do, but not in the numbers they would, nowhere close. Did you really think they did?


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## RamzFanz

K-pax said:


> They're busy actually trying to keep nightlife safe from itself and others.


The irony.


----------



## RamzFanz

K-pax said:


> So... leave all my friends and family and the place I was born and raised and move where? The rust belt? What am i, a refugee now? I like liberal states. I get along very well with a lotof liberal politics. I just don't like elitism.


Liberal politics is the bedrock of elitism.


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## RamzFanz

Fubernuber said:


> Its odd you say that. I would have bet you are a hillary cupcake with a bernie sticker on your bumper. You are a walking talking contradiction. Maybe you are a left leaning independent. Anyways you paint a rosy picture of the world in which there are NO alligators waiting to literally eat you out of a manhole cover. If you dont have such a view then you really do live the good life. I can tell you that there is the real world that is filled with grime, crime and tears then there is a make believe world where people manage to navigate around the gritty and never get eaten simply because they are good at dodgeball. Uber is that alligator. The really big one. Much like amazon. It eats everything in its way. Unlike amazon that actually created some millionare partners, uber destroys everythint in its wake except the tourists on water skiis.


I made almost $30 an hour doing Uber tonight. Still haven't been eaten.


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## RamzFanz

Yam Digger said:


> History has shown that the more a government tries to make a utopia or the "perfect society" the more it turns into dystopia. e.g. The Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea, etc.


I'm alway the first to stand against regulations that curtail rights. This is the opposite. This is ensuring people respect the rights of others.

Freedom of movement is a right.


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## WeirdBob

RamzFanz said:


> Yes, they do, but not in the numbers they would, nowhere close. Did you really think they did?


Most people don't drive drunk because it is immoral and dangerous, not because it is illegal.

Other people will do it regardless of the penalty.


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## K-pax

RamzFanz said:


> Liberal politics is the bedrock of elitism.


Power is the bedrock of elitism. Power adapts to achieve it. If liberal politics accomplishes it, that's what power does. If something else does it, that's what power does. Just like how tech, a notoriously anti-authoritarian field, filled with nerds getting beat up by jocks has turned into a field where the authoritarian jocks now employ the nerds, to serve their power. I like the nerds... I don't like the tech giants.


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## uberdriverfornow

There's a million variables why a fully driverless SDC will never work. This is only one of them. 

You don't go backwards to go forwards. You don't take the driver out to make a car safer.


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## Fubernuber

RamzFanz said:


> I made almost $30 an hour doing Uber tonight. Still haven't been eaten.


I made 380$ net in just 7 fares yesterday while liberals were blocking my rights chanting "rights for all and freedom of movement". You made 30 an hour while sitting 10 people every hour in your seats that smell of ass. Uber pool for the uber fool


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## RamzFanz

WeirdBob said:


> Most people don't drive drunk because it is immoral and dangerous, not because it is illegal.
> 
> Other people will do it regardless of the penalty.


Yes, some still do.

Walking out in traffic and delaying people with disregard is also immoral and dangerous.


----------



## RamzFanz

uberdriverfornow said:


> There's a million variables why a fully driverless SDC will never work. This is only one of them.
> 
> You don't go backwards to go forwards. You don't take the driver out to make a car safer.


You want to ignore that every task we take away from human drivers makes them safer. Autopilot has reduced accidents by 40%. It really doesn't matter what we think, they are coming and coming soon.


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## Cole Hann

Yam Digger said:


> Oh my sweet Lord! Somebody call the Jaywalking Police! We've got a crisis of monumental proportions going on!


those pedestrians are usually the visitors for NYC. Crossing a busy intersection is akin to "every-man for themselves". i concur


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## Ubershafted

Only thing that might save them from rider abuse is putting big glaring cameras on the inside and warning that everything is recorded. That alone would present privacy issues though


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## RamzFanz

Yam Digger said:


> Oh my sweet Lord! Somebody call the Jaywalking Police! We've got a crisis of monumental proportions going on!


So, are we saying it's an actual issue and danger or not? I can't keep up with all of the wild hypotheticals.


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## RamzFanz

Ubershafted said:


> Only thing that might save them from rider abuse is putting big glaring cameras on the inside and warning that everything is recorded. That alone would present privacy issues though


It doesn't present privacy issues and you can be 100% sure there will be internal cameras.


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## Jermin8r89

Is it me or has the weather been crazzy this winter? In heavy rain would it see a puddle and stop? Or would it just drive threw even if its too deep? Would it be like public transportation soon and when bad weather comes these cars shut down like an airport and no pick ups r able to leave? Could u imagin if New York gets major flooding raim but if u skilled enough driver u should see water comeing from a river onto a street u know im not going down that way even if its maybe a foot of water compared to 1 foot of still water. The more crazy weather gets the more u look at airport cancellations the more life is gonna run like public transportation. 

Look out world as its gonna get more complicated as anxiaty and anger issues in the world become a norm as u will have less and less things in ur control


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## flexian

circle1 said:


> This is why TNC contractors need an advocacy group or association.


also to root out favoritism when shifts & pings & deliviries & automated car-routes & drone routes are distributed.....

in other words to make sure the contracts,,,, automated or not,,,are distributed properly.......in a fair way.......


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## Fuzzyelvis

Jermin8r89 said:


> Is it me or has the weather been crazzy this winter? In heavy rain would it see a puddle and stop? Or would it just drive threw even if its too deep? Would it be like public transportation soon and when bad weather comes these cars shut down like an airport and no pick ups r able to leave? Could u imagin if New York gets major flooding raim but if u skilled enough driver u should see water comeing from a river onto a street u know im not going down that way even if its maybe a foot of water compared to 1 foot of still water. The more crazy weather gets the more u look at airport cancellations the more life is gonna run like public transportation.
> 
> Look out world as its gonna get more complicated as anxiaty and anger issues in the world become a norm as u will have less and less things in ur control


We have lots of flooding in Houston. I'd love to know how the SDCs will know when to try to make it through a wet street and when not. I imagine they'll all just stop.

And will they be able to make the decision to drive through, but drive in the center of the street (illegally straddling the line) where the water is not so deep?

I'd never want to be in one during flooding. We'd either never move or it would try to drown me. Either way...


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## Michael - Cleveland

rikstaker said:


> What do they intend to do with hundreds of thousands of out of work cab drivers and uber drivers..


likely the same thing 'they' did with all of those out-of-work, carriage-drivers, blacksmiths, wagon-wheel makers and stable hands... not to mention the horses.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

Livan said:


> Now imagine a car with the Uber logo... I would make this company pay for all the money they owe me.
> 
> ɟnɔʞ ʎon nbǝɹ.


I'd go by construction sites and swipe their orange cones. Then walk around the busiest intersections dropping one in each crosswalk. Chaos would ensue. I wonder how long I could last before someone would shoot me


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

TheAutomator said:


> While they tend to miss the "human" element in decision making, they make much more rational and intelligent decisions than the average person. If the world was run by computer engineers instead of Trump and Putin and Kim Jong Un, do you really think it would be worse?


How do you teach a computer to, Love, Inspire, Admire, Respect etc.? "Rational and Intelligent" decisions are biased by the values held by the system programmers, they are not "absolutes". Everything Kim Jung does is both rational and intelligent based on his values and objectives. Duh.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

rikstaker said:


> What do they intend to do with hundreds of thousands of out of work cab drivers and uber drivers..


The "rational and intelligent" computer would conclude they are "unnecessary" and program them for elimination.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

Cowwy said:


> People are crafty. Unless the software developer is equally crafty we won't see a automatic car driving anytime soon.
> 
> Software simply can't compete with human behaviors that can make snap changes.
> 
> Plus is technology, it is hackable. I certainly don't want to get in a car where some anonymous jerk decides that it would be fun to turn the steering wheel of a auto car from their computer.


Exactly this. We're concerned the "Russians" may have hacked the election or whatever. What they hell could they do to these cars? It's all a pipedream and a publicity stunt. The Guber Ponzi scheme rolls on!


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

Deoxlar said:


> Sex robots... Am I being replaced in the bedroom too?


Bra, as soon as the robots learn to make themselves, they would replace you "everywhere".


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

heynow321 said:


> Waiting for ramz response


Always, lol.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

flexian said:


> the only thing uber, delivery, new tech have done is automate making contracts
> 
> so the have-have nots divide = contract creators-contract fulfillers
> 
> this is not innovation.....


Exactly this. Peeps think Apple makes billions by "innovating" cool new gadgets. They actually make their billions by contracting their manufacturing to Asian plants that employ modern slave labor and make their shyte for pennies on the Dollar. The oldest method known to man to create a fortune for the "innovators".


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

Michael - Cleveland said:


> likely the same thing 'they' did with all of those out-of-work, carriage-drivers, blacksmiths, wagon-wheel makers and stable hands... not to mention the horses.


Well the horses were slaughtered en masse...Do you know the rest of the history?


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## Michael - Cleveland

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> Well the horses were slaughtered en masse...Do you know the rest of the history?


In the 90's I worked for what was in the 1890's the White Wagon Wheel Company.
Today - two generations of family ownership later - the company is a $350 mil/yr manufacturer of compressed wood products and plastic injection molded products.

Some companies adapt - others do not.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

Michael - Cleveland said:


> In the 90's I worked for what was in the 1890's the White Wagon Wheel Company.
> Today - two generations of family ownership later - the company is a $350 mil/yr manufacturer of compressed wood products and plastic injection molded products.
> 
> Some companies adapt - others do not.


Exactly so. And tens of thousands of others went bankrupt, launching the nation into 60 years of deprivation and human suffering.

The "Long Depression" starting in the early 1870s, followed by the global "Great Depression" in the late 1920s. For those connecting the dots, Ford started his Model T assembly line manufacturing around 1908. It did NOT engender wide spread global economic prosperity.

And so now we are talking about an entire global transformation into a new "Autonomous Age". And it won't stop with SDVs, even if it begins with them. If Tech can master the intricacies of global transit, then how long will it take them to perfect hamburger and french fry distribution, or coffee?

And for those of you sitting smugly by with your MBAs in finance and economics etc., you can kiss those careers goodbye also. Computers will handle all of those fields and marketing, engineering and medical and on and on.

How many fields will exist that will require humans to execute daily tasks? HR, uhm no, robots will not need benefits or have wage issues. Teaching? Don't think so. Why would we waste time teaching humans anything? They will have no use for an "education".

Oh sure, we will need a few million engineers around the globe to build it all out and a few more to sustain it. But what will the other 10 Billion humans do? Besides watch porn and smoke weed.

We're having some great fun with this here, but I am asking ALL of you a serious question. WTF are we all going to do when the AI/AVs take over all fields of human endeavor?

The Tech Titans will not need you or want you. You will become a drain to their bottom line. Still think they have "benevolent designs"?


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> Exactly so. And tens of thousands of others went bankrupt, launching the nation into 60 years of deprivation and human suffering.


uh, I guess you could look at the US from 1900-1960 that way
(though I've no idea how)
Or you could see it as the period the US became the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the history of the world, defeating fascism in 2 world wars, pretty much 'inventing' the middle class out of the 'labor' class and building entire industries.


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## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

Michael - Cleveland said:


> uh, I guess you could look at the US from 1900-1960 that way
> (though I've no idea how)
> Or you could see it as the period the US became the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the history of the world, defeating fascism in 2 world wars, pretty much 'inventing' the middle class out of the 'labor' class and building entire industries.


Or you could look at it as the period in which the U.S. began amassing the largest debt ever witnessed in human history, currently standing in the $18-20 Trillion range. It's not real "net wealth" dude, it's monies owed.

Someone's going to want those debts repaid eventually. Facts are peculiar in that they are always facts and do not rely on one's perspective or opinion. This mostly seems to elude your grasp. Just saying.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

Not to even mention your warped point about defeating fascism. Yes, we "defeated it" so well in WWI we had to do it all again twenty years later. And at the cost of literally tens of millions of lives. Some "victory" that was. Lol. And did I miss a memo, are you suggesting that fascism does not still exist in the world today?

Here is a quick primer:
https://www.reference.com/government-politics/fascist-countries-today-ac9ac75f624f8773#
Q: What are the fascist countries today?
A: Quick Answer
As of October 2014, there are no countries that are considered fascist according to generally accepted definitions of fascism. There are several countries with significant, active fascist or neo-fascist movements and with some representation in national politics. Countries with fascist elements and ideologies present in their governments include Syria, Bulgaria, Armenia, Venezuela, Bolivia, France, Denmark, Greece, Spain, Ukraine, the Netherlands and Hungary.


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## Michael - Cleveland

nope, not going to feed trolls who post nonsense - especially about right wing democratically governments.


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## circle1

Michael - Cleveland said:


> nope, not going to feed trolls who post nonsense - especially about right wing democratically governments.


You don't want to take the time to investigate the source provided, and the premise (and I can relate to that, I'm a busy person) . . . so, naturally, you revert to an _ad hominem_ attack.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

Exaxtly, it's his entire M.O. He never answers real questions with facts, only general sweeping opinions based on his worldview/perspective. But don't challenge that, he doesn't have time to evaluate actual facts, they could confuse him. And then he calls me a troll, lol. It's the internet version of "liar, liar pants on fire". Makes me laugh.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

OK, I'm off the soapbox for tonight...gotta find a hockey fight to watch, work out some of this latent aggession! Peace Y'all.


----------



## WeirdBob

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> Or you could look at it as the period in which the U.S. began amassing the largest debt ever witnessed in human history, currently standing in the $18-20 Trillion range. It's not real "net wealth" dude, it's monies owed.
> 
> Someone's going to want those debts repaid eventually. Facts are peculiar in that they are always facts and do not rely on one's perspective or opinion. This mostly seems to elude your grasp. Just saying.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

WeirdBob said:


>


I for sure only understood about half what he was saying (language barrier), but that half made me giggle a ton. I'm with Tommy, let's find that bastard and whack 'em. Thanks for that!!


----------



## player81

I wouldn't be surprised if the oligarchs got the laws changed so that if you jaywalk and get killed the car is not liable at all. Problem solved.


----------



## player81

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> Or you could look at it as the period in which the U.S. began amassing the largest debt ever witnessed in human history, currently standing in the $18-20 Trillion range. It's not real "net wealth" dude, it's monies owed.
> 
> Someone's going to want those debts repaid eventually. Facts are peculiar in that they are always facts and do not rely on one's perspective or opinion. This mostly seems to elude your grasp. Just saying.


I wouldn't worry so much about the debt. As anthropologists note, it's in our best interest NOT to repay major debts. Our debt is one of the main things keeping China at bay (the other is our military). If we repay the debt or slow down military advancement, we will become a target. If a guy owes you $20 you grab him and say "give me my money or I'll kick your @ss". If a guy owes you a million you play nice until he repays you - unless you can afford to take that loss or you're strong enough to take his assets.


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## Michael - Cleveland

player81 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the oligarchs got the laws changed so that if you jaywalk and get killed the car is not liable at all. Problem solved.


... and get get ticketed for impeding the flow of traffic - posthumously.


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

player81 said:


> I wouldn't worry so much about the debt. As anthropologists note, it's in our best interest NOT to repay major debts. Our debt is one of the main things keeping China at bay (the other is our military). If we repay the debt or slow down military advancement, we will become a target. If a guy owes you $20 you grab him and say "give me my money or I'll kick your @ss". If a guy owes you a million you play nice until he repays you - unless you can afford to take that loss or you're strong enough to take his assets.


True enough, but our economy's problem with the national debt isn't the amount, it's the cost of the debt when interest rates rise at a time when the national GDP is not growing (due to the demographics of an aging society where a smaller % of the population is paying the taxes that support an older, less productive % of the population. 20 something need to start making lots of babies right now and we need to make sure they are all very well educated and productive so that in 25 years they can pay our bills).


----------



## circle1

player81 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the oligarchs got the laws changed so that if you jaywalk and get killed the car is not liable at all. Problem solved.


As an aside, North Dakota has actually proposed legislation that would exempt drivers from criminal prosecution if they hit or run over protesters.


----------



## 123dragon

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> Exactly so. And tens of thousands of others went bankrupt, launching the nation into 60 years of deprivation and human suffering.
> 
> The "Long Depression" starting in the early 1870s, followed by the global "Great Depression" in the late 1920s. For those connecting the dots, Ford started his Model T assembly line manufacturing around 1908. It did NOT engender wide spread global economic prosperity.
> 
> And so now we are talking about an entire global transformation into a new "Autonomous Age". And it won't stop with SDVs, even if it begins with them. If Tech can master the intricacies of global transit, then how long will it take them to perfect hamburger and french fry distribution, or coffee?
> 
> And for those of you sitting smugly by with your MBAs in finance and economics etc., you can kiss those careers goodbye also. Computers will handle all of those fields and marketing, engineering and medical and on and on.
> 
> How many fields will exist that will require humans to execute daily tasks? HR, uhm no, robots will not need benefits or have wage issues. Teaching? Don't think so. Why would we waste time teaching humans anything? They will have no use for an "education".
> 
> Oh sure, we will need a few million engineers around the globe to build it all out and a few more to sustain it. But what will the other 10 Billion humans do? Besides watch porn and smoke weed.
> 
> We're having some great fun with this here, but I am asking ALL of you a serious question. WTF are we all going to do when the AI/AVs take over all fields of human endeavor?
> 
> The Tech Titans will not need you or want you. You will become a drain to their bottom line. Still think they have "benevolent designs"?


Lets say you are right for arguments sake. Other nations are doing automation will we have any ability to trade with them if we don't progress? We are dependent on trade for energy. We may be able to take an enclosed view stronger then Trump is proposing but key resources we need wouldn't last forever and we would lag behind production capability from a cost perspective. If the industrial era didn't happen in the US it would of happened else where.


----------



## circle1

123dragon said:


> Lets say you are right for arguments sake. Other nations are doing automation will we have any ability to trade with them if we don't progress? We are dependent on trade for energy. We may be able to take an enclosed view stronger then Trump is proposing but key resources we need wouldn't last forever and we would lag behind production capability from a cost perspective. If the industrial era didn't happen in the US it would of happened else where.


Markets self-correct. There may be a painful period of adjustment, but whatever happens we will take our medicine.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

123dragon said:


> Lets say you are right for arguments sake. Other nations are doing automation will we have any ability to trade with them if we don't progress? We are dependent on trade for energy. We may be able to take an enclosed view stronger then Trump is proposing but key resources we need wouldn't last forever and we would lag behind production capability from a cost perspective. If the industrial era didn't happen in the US it would of happened else where.


Of course, I am not suggesting that the comjng "Automation Era" will not happen. It's already happening. The central question remains regardless. What are all we humans going to do?

If you are telling me that we'll all live lives of comfortable leisure, and Travis will send me a sizable check every month, then I'm in. What I'm suggesting is that this is a very important question to our future well being and no one is willing to address it.

Automation is going to eliminate economically productive human endeavors. That is the entire point of automating anything. I personally, will survive by any means necessary. But I've been well trained to operate in such an environment, have you?


----------



## 123dragon

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> Of course, I am not suggesting that the comjng "Automation Era" will not happen. It's already happening. The central question remains regardless. What are all we humans going to do?
> 
> If you are telling me that we'll all live lives of comfortable leisure, and Travis will send me a sizable check every month, then I'm in. What I'm suggesting is that this is a very important question to our future well being and no one is willing to address it.
> 
> Automation is going to eliminate economically productive human endeavors. That is the entire point of automating anything. I personally, will survive by any means necessary. But I've been well trained to operate in such an environment, have you?


Who's future? The United States represents 5% of the worlds population and consumes 20% of the resources. That wasn't going to last forever. We are going through a bit of pendulum shift where capitals mobility has given it more bargaining power over labor in the developed world.

If you are doing repetitive work in the developed world you should be worried about your job. Call centers and cab drivers are jobs that can be streamlined and lower the costs of access to things so should be made cheaper. If you work on mostly new endeavors I don't see AI taking on any of that type of stuff just yet. In 2007 Google made the point that it had collected more data to that point then all of the data collected before it since the beginning of man. Then the mobile wave happened. We should expect the job climate to change and for people to need to learn new skills to survive.

Automation is not the problem, population growth and resources are. I don't think there is a "fair" way to address this issue until resources can be made cheaper or more unlimited particularly energy. If we can figure out a way to have unlimited energy then a shift in the way economies work make sense. Otherwise I think we need to maintain the course some people won't benefit from the fruits of new technology but we need to push people to innovate to get there.

Life is already a lottery system being born poor in India is infinitely worse the poor in the United States.


----------



## Wil_Iam_Fuber'd

I'll simplify the question. Either globally or U.S. only, how and whom will this coming "automation era" benefit? How many will "win" and how many will "lose". 

I think you are actually making my point. Which is that in the coming near future, there might seem to be a lot of "uneccessary" humans on this planet. What solutions to this dilema will our "efficient and relentlessly logical" AI bosses propose?

Are we all going to go colonize Mars?


----------



## Michael - Cleveland

Wil_Iam_Fuber'd said:


> ... in the coming near future, there might seem to be a lot of "uneccessary" humans on this planet.


There have been people saying that for 2 centuries.
None of them were unemployed, and they're all dead (or will be soon enough).
Look at it this way: someone is going to have to tend the gardens of the wealthy.


----------

