# How is the new law going to apply to our payouts?



## Stupid Loser (Feb 7, 2017)

Been trying to find info on this, but haven't so far. Will they add the hourly wage to our daily earnings every hour in real time? Or will it be showing on the payout breakdown at the end of the week? 

For example: 
Ride Earnings - $412.98
Bonuses - $42.00
Tips - $36.00
Cancel Earnings - $10.00
CA State Minimum Wage - 30 hours x $13 = $390

I went out and gave rides for a couple hours tonight but didn't get any hourly wage added to my pay. Does anybody know exactly how this is going to work?


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## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

Stupid Loser said:


> Been trying to find info on this, but haven't so far. Will they add the hourly wage to our daily earnings every hour in real time? Or will it be showing on the payout breakdown at the end of the week?
> 
> For example:
> Ride Earnings - $412.98
> ...


Joke?Right?


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## Stupid Loser (Feb 7, 2017)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> Joke?Right?


What?


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Stupid Loser said:


> Been trying to find info on this, but haven't so far. Will they add the hourly wage to our daily earnings every hour in real time? Or will it be showing on the payout breakdown at the end of the week?
> 
> For example:
> Ride Earnings - $412.98
> ...


&#128514; can't make this stuff up.


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## Stupid Loser (Feb 7, 2017)

IR12 said:


> &#128514; can't make this stuff up.


What are you talking about?

I'm asking because I seriously don't have a clue.


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## Nate5Star (Dec 18, 2019)

Stupid Loser said:


> Been trying to find info on this, but haven't so far. Will they add the hourly wage to our daily earnings every hour in real time? Or will it be showing on the payout breakdown at the end of the week?
> 
> For example:
> Ride Earnings - $412.98
> ...


If I were Uber, and I now had to pay a minimum wage, workers compensation, unemployment insurance, reimbursement (I believe the law says .30 per mile) paid sick leave and paid family leave. Your ride earning just became recalculated based on 0.21 per min (13.00 per hour divided by 60 minutes) and your mileage payment just became .30 per mile. You'll see a slight increase in your per min rate, but almost a firty percent reduction in your mileage rate. 
Bonuses - sorry we had to go for a yearly bonus as is common for employees. We'll make up some arbitrary number come December. 
Tips - we can't help what the customer does, but we can go back to the cash system.
Cancel earnings - hey we pay you to do a job, not to not do a job.
And don't forget you now have all those benefits that you used to pay for that we have to now.


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## Stupid Loser (Feb 7, 2017)

Nate5Star said:


> If I were Uber, and I now had to pay a minimum wage, workers compensation, unemployment insurance, reimbursement (I believe the law says .30 per mile) paid sick leave and paid family leave. Your ride earning just became recalculated based on 0.21 per min (13.00 per hour divided by 60 minutes) and your mileage payment just became .30 per mile. You'll see a slight increase in your per min rate, but almost a firty percent reduction in your mileage rate.
> Bonuses - sorry we had to go for a yearly bonus as is common for employees. We'll make up some arbitrary number come December.
> Tips - we can't help what the customer does, but we can go back to the cash system.
> Cancel earnings - hey we pay you to do a job, not to not do a job.
> And don't forget you now have all those benefits that you used to pay for that we have to now.


None of that made any sense. $13 is the minimum, not the ceiling.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Stupid Loser said:


> Been trying to find info on this, but haven't so far. Will they add the hourly wage to our daily earnings every hour in real time? Or will it be showing on the payout breakdown at the end of the week?
> 
> For example:
> Ride Earnings - $412.98
> ...


Uber and lyft are Grossly out of compliance with AB5.

As an employee you would be entitled to min wage plus tips (depending on your state) AFTER all impermissible deductions.

30 hours X 13 = $390

In the state of California, your employer is NOT allowed to count your tips towards min wage. (i just looked it up)

So if you drove 700 miles (just a wild guess feel free to correct my wild guess)

$390
+$36
+ (700 X 57.5c) $402.5
$828.50 (with $426 being taxable and $402.5 being a non taxable reimbursement)

Technically for your 30 hours if you drove 700 miles your min wage would be _$828.50, with $402.50 being non taxable._

HOWEVER They could make a 2 week pay period and supplement your earnings and average it out over those 2 weeks.

By my rough estimation you are 327.52 below min wage under California and federal law.


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## Don't swim in pools (Sep 8, 2017)

It's going to be in the courts for years. Stop holding your breath. I would rather be a true 1099 anyways instead of a half breed like today or a true employee.


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## Stupid Loser (Feb 7, 2017)

Don't swim in pools said:


> I would rather be a true 1099 anyways instead of a half breed like today or a true employee.


There's a lot of assumptions going on with this development, and I think many people have not truly thought it through. One of the main assumptions is scheduled shifts, but, if they did that, most drivers would likely quit. Meaning, U/L goes bankrupt. And no one is aware of this more than U/L. So, I highly doubt they will do that. Drivers are too used to the way it is already. They can't change it now.

AB5 shifts a lot of power to the drivers, which is exactly why U/L hates it so much. Being an employee in this particular gig is actually so much better than a 1099.


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## Nate5Star (Dec 18, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Uber and lyft are Grossly out of compliance with AB5.
> 
> As an employee you would be entitled to min wage plus tips (depending on your state) AFTER all impermissible deductions.
> 
> ...


Actually there are some issues with the math. 
Using the 30 hours, in 2020 you will get 14.40 per hour 
AB5 says 120% of minimum wage. In 2020 Calif minimum wage is 12 hr (13 hr in 2021)
So 30 hours x 14.40 = 432.00
That 700 mile wild guess is reimbursed at .30 per mile (per AB5). So 210.00 in reimbursed mileage. Not getting into what is taxable and non taxable as there are "accountable" plan reimbursements that will affect your deductible mileage.


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## Stupid Loser (Feb 7, 2017)

Nate5Star said:


> Actually there are some issues with the math.
> Using the 30 hours, in 2020 you will get 14.40 per hour
> AB5 says 120% of minimum wage. In 2020 Calif minimum wage is 12 hr (13 hr in 2021)
> So 30 hours x 14.40 = 432.00
> That 700 mile wild guess is reimbursed at .30 per mile (per AB5). So 210.00 in reimbursed mileage. Not getting into what is taxable and non taxable as there are "accountable" plan reimbursements that will affect your deductible mileage.


Why would minimum wage be $12 instead of $13?


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Stupid Loser said:


> I'm asking because I seriously don't have a clue.


You got THAT part of the post right!


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## Nate5Star (Dec 18, 2019)

Stupid Loser said:


> There's a lot of assumptions going on with this development, and I think many people have not truly thought it through. One of the main assumptions is scheduled shifts, but, if they did that, most drivers would likely quit. Meaning, U/L goes bankrupt. And no one is aware of this more than U/L. So, I highly doubt they will do that. Drivers are too used to the way it is already. They can't change it now.
> 
> AB5 shifts a lot of power to the drivers, which is exactly why U/L hates it so much. Being an employee in this particular gig is actually so much better than a 1099.


I will the first one to quit if it comes to scheduling, but that is a scare tactic they are using. I can see U/L logic. If I am now forced to pay you a minimum wage, there is no way I am hiring 20 drivers in an area that can only profitably support 10 drivers.

U/L are already bleeding money. By creating employees out of contractors, they will be adding about 30% to their operating costs. Investors will head for the hills if they can't show a positive cash flow on paper. U/L will not go bankrupt, they will close their doors.



Stupid Loser said:


> Why would minimum wage be $12 instead of $13?


Because that is California's minimum wage for 2020. It will be 13.00 starting 2021, and increase each year by $1 until it reached $15 in 2023.



People should really think about what they are asking for.

When I worked for that telecom company, we had a "no sick day policy." It did not mean you couldn't be sick. It meant you could be out sick for an entire month and still be paid. Some genius employees decided sick days would be better. They saw it as additional vacation days. So sick days were trialed. As soon as they ran out of sick days, and actually needed time off, they were screaming on the streets because they didn't get paid for those days beyond the sick days.

As far as I am concerned, if you want to drive and get paid for it, join a taxi firm.

You want to walk out the front door and get the money for this months gas bill, log on to U/L.

But then again, I am retired, I get medical benies from said company (although I do pay part of it), this summer the feds will start giving me back some of that social security I have paid for years, and I am only doing U/L for extra $ and laughs.


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## Stupid Loser (Feb 7, 2017)

Seamus said:


> You got THAT part of the post right!


Ok. &#128077;



Nate5Star said:


> If I am now forced to pay you a minimum wage, there is no way I am hiring 20 drivers in an area that can only profitably support 10 drivers.


Will all 20 be online at the same time? Besides, in the event of saturation, how hard would it be to simply raise the required standards for drivers? Anyone who fails to meet standard could be legally booted.



Nate5Star said:


> U/L are already bleeding money.


How? From their fleet of non-existent vehicles? What is their overhead? They bring in multiple millions of dollars EVERY DAY. Is that not enough to pay the electric bills in their buildings and their embarrassingly low-skill support team?



Nate5Star said:


> By creating employees out of contractors, they will be adding about 30% to their operating costs.


30%? Where'd you get that figure from?



Nate5Star said:


> Because that is California's minimum wage for 2020. It will be 13.00 starting 2021, and increase each year by $1 until it reached $15 in 2023.


When did U/L become mom and pop shops?


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## Poopy54 (Sep 6, 2016)

Make it easy....go back to 75% cut for the driver, pay half my gas, 50% of my maintenance, no more express pools.... I'll be happy


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## Nate5Star (Dec 18, 2019)

there's three other walls calling me


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

Umm correct me if I am wrong (I'm sure you will) but isn't the Minimum wage based ONLY for the time you have a Passenger on board ? 

So For example your $13 hour wage oyu are using. = $13.00 / 60 minutes = 22 cents a minute. So a 10 minute ride you just made $2.20


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## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

Stupid Loser said:


> There's a lot of assumptions going on with this development, and I think many people have not truly thought it through. One of the main assumptions is scheduled shifts, but, if they did that, most drivers would likely quit. Meaning, U/L goes bankrupt. And no one is aware of this more than U/L. So, I highly doubt they will do that. Drivers are too used to the way it is already. They can't change it now.
> 
> AB5 shifts a lot of power to the drivers, which is exactly why U/L hates it so much. Being an employee in this particular gig is actually so much better than a 1099.


I've been working 12-13 hours a day making $20 an hour 7 days a week
for 3 years. Idt ab5 would benefit
me in any way whatsoever.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

Uber and Lyft will completely ignore AB5, so don't expect any changes to your pay. 
As others have said, it will take years to get U/L into compliance, if ever.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

there won't be any changes for quite a period of time. Other than those uber already announced. Otherwise stuck in courts for years. and the possibility of Uber making us all hourly employees is like zero. They will cull the herd.


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## Tarvus (Oct 3, 2018)

Stupid Loser said:


> One of the main assumptions is scheduled shifts, but, if they did that, most drivers would likely quit.


Instead of scheduled shifts, all they have to do is not allow you to go online when they deem the currently available online drivers sufficient to meet demand. Expect to get knocked offline if you are already online and demand drops below a certain threshold too.


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## Daisey77 (Jan 13, 2016)

dauction said:


> Umm correct me if I am wrong (I'm sure you will) but isn't the Minimum wage based ONLY for the time you have a Passenger on board ?
> 
> So For example your $13 hour wage oyu are using. = $13.00 / 60 minutes = 22 cents a minute. So a 10 minute ride you just made $2.20


 I honestly have no idea but I'm thinking if you're online they have to be paying you. However, they probably won't let people go online just whenever they want either. If there's too many drivers out, they make block you from going online. They're not trying to pay out a bunch of drivers who aren't moving passengers. I'm assuming they'll kick people offline to when things slow down&#129335;&#127996; of course that's all speculation but I almost guarantee if you're online they have to be paying you


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

This must be all talk of gross pay. Has anyone viewed a pay stub lately (or ever? from a W2 job):

State Tax
Federal Tax
Medicare Tax
OASDI Tax
SDI/Workers Comp Tax

you think back pay? Think taxes on that. Easily around 23% poof, gone before you get the net. Of course, there won't be any back pay since law at best is eff 1/1/20 at worse when the court cases all settled. 
And today, first official business day of 2020, no changes beyond what Uber announced a month ago.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

Lets get real guys. 

1. Minimum wage ($12 /hr)
2. Mileage reimbursement (58 cents per business mile driven in CA)
3. "Benefits" (Yay for Stride... LOL)

The only way to do this would be through scheduled "blocks" of hours, most probably with a maximum number of hours per week. 30 hrs worked x $12 /hr = $360

You'd also be reimbursed for business mileage, but my guess is that the only applicable miles will be the miles to the pickup point and actual mileage with bodies in the car. 5 days x 20 runs per day x 4 miles per run = 400 miles @ 58 cents per mile = approx $232

Overall, you'd gross $360 + $232 = $592 before taxes and withholdings, with a take home somewhere between $450 and $500 /wk


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Stupid Loser said:


> AB5 shifts a lot of power to the drivers, which is exactly why U/L hates it so much. Being an employee in this particular gig is actually so much better than a 1099.


Not if the app never lights up due to U&L being in bankruptcy.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

Stupid Loser said:


> Been trying to find info on this, but haven't so far. Will they add the hourly wage to our daily earnings every hour in real time? Or will it be showing on the payout breakdown at the end of the week?
> 
> For example:
> Ride Earnings - $412.98
> ...


you might be given a w2 so they will take out takes and social security out of your check! meaning an average of 400 earned they take 85 out for taxes . Then at the end of the year you can get back money back you over paid in taxes from your deductions .
or they can give a 1099k still but have a uber bonus that pays extra if you did not earn at east min wage . It will only pay time your driving and not just sitting and waiting for pings.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Well i have been corrected.

If AB 5 says 30c a mile reimbursed.

30 X $13(based on the wage that the OP said. Different cities in Cali have different wages so i'm sticking with 13) $390
700 miles X .30 = $210

$390 (hourly)
$36 (tips)
$210 (mileage)
$636

Ride Earnings - $412.98
Bonuses - $42.00
Tips - $36.00
Cancel Earnings - $10.00 
$500.98

So by these standards in California the OP is $136 below what he should be for 30 hours.



kingcorey321 said:


> you might be given a w2 so they will take out takes and social security out of your check! meaning an average of 400 earned they take 85 out for taxes . Then at the end of the year you can get back money back you over paid in taxes from your deductions .
> or they can give a 1099k still but have a uber bonus that pays extra if you did not earn at east min wage . It will only pay time your driving and not just sitting and waiting for pings.


Wage laws state for employees that On time call isn't payable, however if the court determines that you can't use your on call time for anything or defacto can't use it that it IS in fact payable.

Can you use the on time call "effectively for your own personal purposes"

With uber/lyft the answer is no, you have seconds to accept the job and chances are high that you don't have enough time between jobs to go home or do anything. You seconds to accept and minutes to get to the pickup. By US department of labor this would be payable time.


*Are limited geographically - *If being on-call requires the employee to be strictly limited in his geographic freedom - meaning that he cannot go to the store or out to lunch - then it's compensable. It's hard to say exactly how close an employee should have to be to the work site. But requiring them to stay within a five-minute drive would almost always require they be paid for their time.
*Must stay inside one building - *When an employee is required to stay in the same place - whether at a work site or at home - the employee should almost definitely be paid.
*Wear a uniform - *If an employee has to wear a uniform, their on-call time is clearly restricted. They should be paid for their time on call.
*Must respond quickly to a call - *If an employee must respond to a call from work quickly, say immediately or within 10 or 15 minutes, a court might rule that this is overly restrictive and the employee should be paid.
*Frequently end up working while on call - *If an employee occasionally gets a call, it is clear that they are truly on-call but _*if they get calls nearly every on-call shift or many during one-on call shift*_, they are not just on-call they are on duty and should be paid.

This is a separate lawsuit but federal labor law would for sure deem that the on-call time is payable. From what i can see browsing the case law... 30? Seconds to respond and immediatly going to the pickup with alcohol use being a no (level of control), and the complete inability to use your time between pings for anything at all...

It's payable.

But i like i said it's probobly a second lawsuit.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

Stupid Loser said:


> Been trying to find info on this, but haven't so far. Will they add the hourly wage to our daily earnings every hour in real time? Or will it be showing on the payout breakdown at the end of the week?
> 
> For example:
> Ride Earnings - $412.98
> ...


--------------------------
Uber and Lyft have already stated that the new law does not apply to them.
Conduct your business as in the past. Keep all your expense records. Nothing will change .



Stupid Loser said:


> Why would minimum wage be $12 instead of $13?


-----------------------
Determined by the number of employees in the company.

*California*
Applicable to employers with 25 employees or less

*Basic Minimum Rate (per hour): $12.00*

Applicable to employers with 26 employees or more

*Basic Minimum Rate (per hour): $13.00*


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## Rockocubs (Jul 31, 2017)

Nate5Star said:


> If I were Uber, and I now had to pay a minimum wage, workers compensation, unemployment insurance, reimbursement (I believe the law says .30 per mile) paid sick leave and paid family leave. Your ride earning just became recalculated based on 0.21 per min (13.00 per hour divided by 60 minutes) and your mileage payment just became .30 per mile. You'll see a slight increase in your per min rate, but almost a firty percent reduction in your mileage rate.
> Bonuses - sorry we had to go for a yearly bonus as is common for employees. We'll make up some arbitrary number come December.
> Tips - we can't help what the customer does, but we can go back to the cash system.
> Cancel earnings - hey we pay you to do a job, not to not do a job.
> And don't forget you now have all those benefits that you used to pay for that we have to now.


Don't forget your now an employee you have to work the hours we tell you and not just turn on the damn app when you want too , also loose the accept button you must take everything they send.


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## Jst1dreamr (Apr 25, 2019)

I personally believe that all of you who make your absurd calculations are every bit as clueless as the rest of us. I have read AB5 and IMHO if U/L lose the many law suits expected over the next few years most of us here will probably not be driving for them any way. 
Myself, I do not want to be an employee of Uber or Lyft. I will be happy if they just give me the info they promised (if they ever get their shit together enough to do that much) and let me decide what calls I take.


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Stupid Loser said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> I'm asking because I seriously don't have a clue.


Your screen name is not helping your case &#129335;‍♂


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

Here that noise? It's the thousands of Uber/Lyft drivers in CA finally realizing AB5 did jack for them on Jan 1st.

But don't worry. I bet it's coming, eventually....... Employee Status, all the deductions that come along with that (see posts above), some type of scheduling (see NYC as a potential prototype) or blocked from logging in if already enough drivers out there, no choice on ride selection since you are an employee you will take all pings that come to you, etc etc.

Good thing you all have weed in CA to drown out the sorrows. If you can afford it.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

I don't want to be an employee. I just want to be treated like a true IC.
In addition to what Uber is starting to do in CA, I also want to be able to set my own rates.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

My "Stupid" calculations are based on federal and state employment law.

Companies have had (and lost) lawsuits over reimbursement (or lack thereof) for mileage.

The OP wanted to know how his wages would compare as an employee and I informed him.

On this one example based on federal law, this driver is being underpaid.

This isn't crap i made up, this is the law.
In this setting "kick back" includes driving your car on the job.

Papa John's lost a lawsuit for not paying min wage after vehicle expenses. So the case law and the intent of the law would indicate to me that the driver would win that lawsuit.

§ 531.35 "Free and clear" payment; "kickbacks."
Whether in cash or in facilities, "wages" cannot be considered to have been paid by the employer and received by the employee unless they are paid finally and unconditionally or "free and clear." The wage requirements of the Act will not be met where the employee "kicks-back" directly or indirectly to the employer or to another person for the employer's benefit the whole or part of the wage delivered to the employee. This is true whether the "kick-back" is made in cash or in other than cash. For example, if it is a requirement of the employer that the employee must provide tools of the trade which will be used in or are specifically required for the performance of the employer's particular work, there would be a violation of the Act in any workweek when the cost of such tools purchased by the employee cuts into the minimum or overtime wages required to be paid him under the Act. See also in this connection, § 531.32(c).


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Illini said:


> I don't want to be an employee. I just want to be treated like a true IC.
> In addition to what Uber is starting to do in CA, I also want to be able to set my own rates.


The problem with setting your own rates would be some ant would always be willing to do it for less and you can bet the lower ant would win. What would they do give the rider a list of drivers available and the total they would pay based on driver rates?


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> Joke?Right?


Of course.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> The problem with setting your own rates would be some ant would always be willing to do it for less and you can bet the lower ant would win. What would they do give the rider a list of drivers available and the total they would pay based on driver rates?


Yeah there would be idiots low balling the heck out of the rates and screw everyone with any common sense/understanding of how much a car costs to operate.


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## ubergrind (May 23, 2017)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Yeah there would be idiots low balling the heck out of the rates and screw everyone with any common sense/understanding of how much a car costs to operate.


Even if a rideshare market place existed allowing drivers to set their own rates government would step in and determine a pricing floor . That's exactly why we have the taxi system as we do today . Too many drivers undercutting and Nobody was making money.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Nate5Star said:


> I will the first one to quit if it comes to scheduling, but that is a scare tactic they are using. I can see U/L logic. If I am now forced to pay you a minimum wage, there is no way I am hiring 20 drivers in an area that can only profitably support 10 drivers.
> 
> U/L are already bleeding money. By creating employees out of contractors, they will be adding about 30% to their operating costs. Investors will head for the hills if they can't show a positive cash flow on paper. U/L will not go bankrupt, they will close their doors.
> 
> ...


In 2020, 13 is minimum for companies with more than 25 employees.

N


dauction said:


> Umm correct me if I am wrong (I'm sure you will) but isn't the Minimum wage based ONLY for the time you have a Passenger on board ?
> 
> So For example your $13 hour wage oyu are using. = $13.00 / 60 minutes = 22 cents a minute. So a 10 minute ride you just made $2.20


No, you would be paid from app on to app off.

N


dauction said:


> Umm correct me if I am wrong (I'm sure you will) but isn't the Minimum wage based ONLY for the time you have a Passenger on board ?
> 
> So For example your $13 hour wage oyu are using. = $13.00 / 60 minutes = 22 cents a minute. So a 10 minute ride you just made $2.20


No, you would be paid from app on to app off.



Tarvus said:


> Instead of scheduled shifts, all they have to do is not allow you to go online when they deem the currently available online drivers sufficient to meet demand. Expect to get knocked offline if you are already online and demand drops below a certain threshold too.


Not likely.

In California, once you clock in, you get paid for four hours even if you get sent home ten minutes after clocking in.

The only exception is acts of God, earthquakes, tornadoes fires etc.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> The problem with setting your own rates would be some ant would always be willing to do it for less and you can bet the lower ant would win. What would they do give the rider a list of drivers available and the total they would pay based on driver rates?


You could be right, but that's the IC way. And yes, to your question about the rate choices they'd give to the riders.
Unless they come up with a new classification for this gig, we should be full employees or full ICs. I choose the latter.


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Fozzie said:


> Lets get real guys.
> 
> 1. Minimum wage ($12 /hr)
> 2. Mileage reimbursement (58 cents per business mile driven in CA)
> ...


13 bux an hour minus taxes. Taxes should actually drop because Uber will have to pay half of some taxes (SS and Unemployment) which drivers should be paying for now and all of workers comp. Drivers would pay for all of disability.

Uber would have to pay all miles from app on to app off, with or without pax.

Drivers have to keep a daily log with all miles.

Can it be done? Yes.

I worked at a company that had hundreds of drivers and this is exactly how it worked.

Why did they do it this way? Because back in the day they paid as independent contractors and finally got caught.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

the amount of speculation in this thread is quite amazing. -o:


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## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

Have you California drivers been hearing it from your pax about their industry being affected by AB5? I have heard from:

1) Golf caddies (have filed in court already)
2) Musicians
3) Freelancers for our local paper

They all get in the car and ask the driver what they think about AB5. I tell them that the lawmakers are taking a bad situation and making it worse. The legislators need to make up a new set of rules that classify us in between contractor and employee status. We need to be quasi-employees, with protection from exploitation, but not outright employees with mandated benefits. Unfortunately most of these people in Sacramento can't think beyond the end of their bureaucratic noses.

And newbies should recall that in past years/decades California has gotten quite aggressive toward employers hiring contractors.... forcing them to hire the person as an employee visa vi tighter and tighter interpretation of the rules concerning what construes an employee. Why? MORE REVENUE FOR THE STATE.

Uber and Lyft and played right into their hands.


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## ABC123DEF (Jun 9, 2015)

Maybe they'll drag their feet for so long that the State of California will come and put chains on locks on the doors of the Uber HQ - similar to what happens when businesses can't pay their taxes. Sometimes you just have to make an example out of somebody. 

"Attention Attention! As you know, Uber prides itself on being a cashless experience. Therefore, the Uber team is proud to announce that drivers will no longer receive cash payouts. We will be moving to a tiered system of rewarding stars and badges. As always, thank you for being a valued partner and for keeping our cities moving." - Some Random Uber Exec


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Stupid Loser said:


> I went out and gave rides for a couple hours tonight but didn't get any hourly wage added to my pay.


:biggrin:&#128515;&#128513;:roflmao: You should do stand up!


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## IR12 (Nov 11, 2017)

Seamus said:


> You got THAT part of the post right!


That name...stupid loser, priceless.


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## Jst1dreamr (Apr 25, 2019)

DriverMark said:


> Good thing you all have weed in CA to drown out the sorrows. If you can afford it.


True and you will just have salt.
I for one hope it fails but if not I will go surfing and hang out on the beach and read posts from people who have no clue.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

observer said:


> In 2020, 13 is minimum for companies with more than 25 employees.
> 
> N
> 
> ...


Yeah ...I was thinking of Ubers "counter offer" last year ...where it looked lke $21 an hour but read in reality it would have only been while you had a passenger on board..

*protections legislation (via Assembly Bill 5) and demanded a union, Uber  is circulating a petition urging people to "protect ridesharing in California." In the petition, Uber advocates for a policy that would offer drivers a minimum of $21 per hour while on a trip,* *


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

dauction said:


> Yeah ...I was thinking of Ubers "counter offer" last year ...where it looked lke $21 an hour but read in reality it would have only been while you had a passenger on board..
> 
> *protections legislation (via Assembly Bill 5) and demanded a union, Uber  is circulating a petition urging people to "protect ridesharing in California." In the petition, Uber advocates for a policy that would offer drivers a minimum of $21 per hour while on a trip,* *


Yup...

Reality is that the $21 proposal would only amount to $7.00 an hour, even less than current pay.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

SHalester said:


> the amount of speculation in this thread is quite amazing. -o:


Don't you know? It's what we do best!!!! :smiles:


Coastal_Cruiser said:


> Have you California drivers been hearing it from your pax about their industry being affected by AB5? I have heard from:
> 
> 1) Golf caddies (have filed in court already)
> 2) Musicians
> ...


I haven't heard about AB5 from any riders yet but I will start asking.


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## Youburr (Aug 22, 2019)

In CA on call work is either controlled or uncontrolled. Uber is controlling. You get a ping and right away you are at work for Uber. Uncontrolled would be you have time (20 min) to drop the baby off at the sitter’s house before responding. Controlled on-call time is working time in CA, whereas if you are uncontrolled during on-call time it is not work. 

Also your work would be non-exempt from labor protections (Unless a labor union enters a collective bargaining agreement with Uber to set classifications) and when you file a wage claim to get back pay, you can seek the prior two years.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

You get the minimum wage or what you actually made.


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## tvdvr68 (Jan 3, 2020)

Put AB5 in 1 hand and poop in the other hand which one weighs more


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## Eddyles (Jan 5, 2020)

Stupid Loser said:


> Been trying to find info on this, but haven't so far. Will they add the hourly wage to our daily earnings every hour in real time? Or will it be showing on the payout breakdown at the end of the week?
> 
> For example:
> Ride Earnings - $412.98
> ...


This is what iam getting at i made a post about how Canadian are making way more then the USA but how?


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

Drivers will just be required to pick blocks when they want to work just like DD and GH and guaranteed an hourly minimum plus mileage and time.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

peteyvavs said:


> Drivers will just be required to pick blocks when they want to work just like DD and GH and guaranteed an hourly minimum plus mileage and time.


MIn wage plus time/mileage would be about $17-20 an hour here.

Hard to hit $10.00 currently.

Having it take half as long and half the miles to make the same money would be a win here.


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## Eddyles (Jan 5, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> MIn wage plus time/mileage would be about $17-20 an hour here.
> 
> Hard to hit $10.00 currently.
> 
> Having it take half as long and half the miles to make the same money would be a win here.


you making 10.00 hr where you are at?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Eddyles said:


> you making 10.00 hr where you are at?


Orlando is $7-12 an hour on X.

I make about $10-$15 an hour driving a taxi after expenses.


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## Eddyles (Jan 5, 2020)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Orlando is $7-12 an hour on X.
> 
> I make about $10-$15 an hour driving a taxi after expenses.


woooow man this is something brother iam doing not bad here then man this world suck guys should be better for all of us


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Eddyles said:


> woooow man this is something brother iam doing not bad here then man this world suck guys should be better for all of us


Yeah X really sucks here, 2 minimum trips per hour is not uncommon when it's "busy"

You just can't make anything when you drive 6 miles (including getting to the customer) to make $3.00 in 20 minutes.

And Disney world?

I abandoned Disney world until probably around Easter. It cycles from being a money tree to a collection of queues that takes too long to get a fare. (Uber/lyft are queues in Walt Disney world)

But the $10-15 i make driving a cab is a respectable wage _here_, It's markedly better than min wage and unlike min wage jobs you can actually get 40+ hours a week. (a lot of folks have multiple min wage jobs and cant hit 40 hours on any of them)

In a weekend I can earn what would take me all week to earn on min wage.


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## uberstang2020 (Jan 13, 2020)

Stupid loser, there is no AB5 benefits for drivers. Lets get one thing clear, AB5 is about the societal dilemma of working class contributing to tax pools. AB5 is solely for state governments to obtain employment tax revenues. If drivers were ever classified employees, the entire industry goes bankrupt. Heres some realities:
1. Uber drivers currently write off most or all if their taxes, under AB5, 25-30% gets taken weekly out of your earnings
2. There is no overtime allowed. Like a person working two jobs, everyone would be capped at 40 hours for uber then work additional hours for lyft. 
3. You would be forced to work bad neighborhoods, third shift or downtown during rush hour.
4. Employees do not get free healthcare. The way it works, you pay some, employer pays some, so take another 5-10% off your weekly pay
5. Kiss surge pricing goodbye
6. Kiss instant pay goodbye
7. Did I mention uber could not afford to pay a new payroll department for 700 million employees? Kiss goodbye all the part time employees who just make a few extra bucks on the weekends. You are either fulltime or not worth their time
8. The trucking industry. At the federal level, they do not get messed with. They must be independent contractors, and if they are, so are uber drivers
9. Did you want paid vacation? well you will get a few days, thats if you keep your acceptance rate up to 95%. And oh yes, the 95% includes mandatory nonstop $3 mcdelivery runs. 
10. After taxes and deductions, you and your $13/hr really takes home $9/hr so when you are sitting by yourself at the gas station on third shift at 3am waiting for pings and decide to go home and call it a night because its dead, you get fired in the morning! 
11. Did I forget to mention federal courts have already established uber drivers are independent contractors? 
California and NJ want employment tax revenue and they have a legit beef such a massive workforce isn’t contributing to society but make no mistake, a driver classified an employee is a driver classified an unemployed.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

tl:dr
wild wild speculation.
I for one love AB5 since it brought about the full info ping. That alone is worth it.
FWIW Uber has a 2-3 milion drivers worldwide, not 700 million. sheesh.


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