# Ideal Rideshare Car?



## Karen Stein (Nov 5, 2016)

I’ve been driving rideshare for about 4-1/2 years, and I’d like to share my thoughts. After 300,000+ miles ‘on the meter,’ I ought to have some thoughts. I’ve used three personally owned cars and three rentals.
Cars like the Kia Soul and Toyota Yaris work fine, but are a bit small. Roof pillars give you massive blind spots. Acceleration is weak.

My advice? Go up a notch. My current car is a Toyota Corolla Hatchback , with the larger engine. I’d rate this car as 95% perfect. The only quibbles are the lack of a remote release for the hatch and limited cargo space ( because of the slope of the rear window).

Used? A later year Scion xB is perfect.

Go for reliability first and foremost. If it isn’t recommended by Consumer Reports avoid it.
Buy new if you can. Pay for your it by “taxing” yourself dime a mile. That’s how you pay it off before it wears out.

Your thoughts?


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> I’ve been driving rideshare for about 4-1/2 years, and I’d like to share my thoughts. After 300,000+ miles ‘on the meter,’ I ought to have some thoughts. I’ve used three personally owned cars and three rentals.
> Cars like the Kia Soul and Toyota Yaris work fine, but are a bit small. Roof pillars give you massive blind spots. Acceleration is weak.
> 
> My advice? Go up a notch. My current car is a Toyota Corolla Hatchback , with the larger engine. I’d rate this car as 95% perfect. The only quibbles are the lack of a remote release for the hatch and limited cargo space ( because of the slope of the rear window).
> ...


Best car is an EV. You need to minimize the fuel costs. TCO is cheaper for an EV vs. ICE vehicle. No oil changes, brakes lasting 5 times longer, no additional maintenance. And, per KW/h cost to run an EV will almost be much cheaper than using gasoline, for each km/mile driven

Ask @Kurt Halfyard, he swears by his plug in GM Volt.


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

Last summer I test drove new Corolla Hatchback. I gave up on it when I realized that legroom in the back seats is actually smaller than on my current Yaris. It does have more trunk space and more power, but you don't need much power to hit 35 mph in city bumper to bumper driving. 

I don't like Consumer Reports, they often make recommendations based on the past even if car model is brand new and shares nothing with the past model. I look for cars that have been on the market for a while in the same generation - that usually means that even if it had issues before by year 4 or 5 all glitches are corrected.


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## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Although I have more negitives with my Toyota Prius V, the big plus is the leg room and the luggage agea. I used to get comments like... "wow, this is bigger in the inside". On long hauls, when I have (I usually did) front seat all the way up front, and with the rear seat reclined, they can get a good snooz for the trip.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

TCO- Total Cost of ownership. Not TOS. my bad....


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## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

2017 Camry LE... 4 cylinder, 6-speed automatic transmission, non-hybrid, non-turbo, non-cvt, non-AWD, no bumpers filled with ridiculous sensors or circuitry. Black interior. Simple, bulletproof, comfortable, adequate size, easy to work on, holds its value, lasts forever with little more than routine maintenance.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Unquestionably the best vehicle for Ridehail right now is the Chevrolet BOLT. 

It's big on the inside. Has 100% flat floors for PAX all boarding from one side of the vehicle. Cost almost zero in fuel and maintenance. Has an extraordinarily long range 300+ miles on a single charge. And is significantly cheaper than the TESLA Model3 or other pricey EVs.

There are several BOLT owners who can give testimony for doing it with UBER/LYFT, such as @dauction

The only downside is the driver's seat is 1" narrower than standard cars/SUVs/Minivans. So if you have ample posterior, you may want to think twice about spending hours and hours doing ridehail in this vehicle.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

The best car for rideshare is not the best car for me. I need a car that is comfortable for me to drive every day.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> The best car for rideshare is not the best car for me. I need a car that is comfortable for me to drive every day.


This is very true. A car is both an emotional and physical purchase.


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## phoneguy (Apr 15, 2015)

Been doing this for 6 years - In Pittsburgh. I would recommend a Toyota Prius - They are hard to find since people get them and they never rid of them. 
My first car was a 2013 Hyundai Sonota - 27 MPG and break every 40K.
Second - 2011 Toyota Prius - 43 MPG and 138K before the first brake job, only reason I got rid of it, catalytic converter cost $2700 and can only be purchased from Toyota - no after market - it had 221K and I wanted a new car
Third - 2021 Toyota Prius - 56 MPG, roomy, modern, and everyone is surprised at how nice it is.

Yes an EV would be great but the range can limit you, and the charging can be complicated if you have on street parking. In a Prius or other Hybrid, you can get good gas mileage and pull into any gas station. I have had several trips that have lasted over 4 hours (PA is spaced out) and I could not have take those trips in an EV (200+ miles). 

and before someone says I wouldn't take a trip that long since you drive back empty. Look at it this way, You are on the interstate the whole time, averaging 75 MPH, or $55 to $65 per hour. Divide that by 2 for the return and they is still a good pay day.

*12) 2021 Honda Accord Hybrid*
*$26,370 | Annual Fuel Cost: $750 | 48 mpg | Overall Score: 8.3/10*
*11) 2021 Honda Clarity Plug-In Hybrid *
*$33,400 | Annual Fuel Cost: $650 | 110 MPGe / 42 mpg | Overall Score: TBD*
*10) 2020 Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid*
*$29,490 | Annual Fuel Cost: $700 | 105 MPGe / 46 mpg | Overall Score: 7.4/10*
*9) 2020 Kia Niro*
*$24,590 | Annual Fuel Cost: $750 | 49 mpg | Overall Score: 7.4/10*
*8) 2021 Toyota Prius*
*$24,525 | Annual Fuel Cost: $650 | 56 mpg | Overall Score: 7.7/10*
*7) 2021 Toyota Corolla Hybrid*
*$23,400 | Annual Fuel Cost: $700 | 52 mpg | Overall Score: 7.9/10*
*6) 2020 Hyundai Ioniq Plug-In Hybrid*
*$26,500 | Annual Fuel Cost: $600 | 119 MPGe / 52 mpg | Overall Score: 8.0/10*
*5) 2021 Honda Insight*
*$22,930 | Annual Fuel Cost: $700 | 52 mpg | Overall Score: 8.0/10*
*4) 2021 Toyota Camry Hybrid*
*$27,270 | Annual Fuel Cost: $700 | 52 mpg | Overall Score: 8.4/10*
*3) 2021 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid*
*$27,750 | Annual Fuel Cost: $750 | 52 mpg | Overall Score: 8.7/10*
*2) 2021 Toyota Prius Prime*
*$28,220 | Annual Fuel Cost: $550 | 133 MPGe / 54 mpg | Overall Score: 7.5/10*
*1) 2020 Hyundai Ioniq*
*$23,200 | Annual Fuel Cost: $600 | 58 mpg | Overall Score: 8.0/10*


Hell my wife drives a RAV4 Hybrid and she average 40 in a SUV.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Schmanthony said:


> 2017 Camry LE... 4 cylinder, 6-speed automatic transmission, non-hybrid, non-turbo, non-cvt, non-AWD, no bumpers filled with ridiculous sensors or circuitry. Black interior. Simple, bulletproof, comfortable, adequate size, easy to work on, lasts forever with little more than routine maintenance.


Midsize is the way to go !


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Karen Stein said:


> Your thoughts?


best RS vehicle is the one you already own. Preferably you had it for years and is paid off or nearly paid off AND it is still your primary family car.

Buying a new car just for RS? Epic mistake. Buying a 2nd POS of RS, almost equally epic mistake due to carrying costs of an additional vehicle. 

RS full timers, your mileage may differ from those of us who only do this for a sliver of time.


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## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

FLKeys said:


> The best car for rideshare is not the best car for me. I need a car that is comfortable for me to drive every day.


This would also be high on my list if I was to do RS full time.

If I was doing RS full time and was thinking logically, I think I'd probably go with an EV. The problem is, however, that I'd get claustrophobic in a Bolt or Leaf and Model 3 would be too expensive to buy to just use for RS. I'd never buy new, though.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

I have bought in to the idea of buying new as well. It goes against the body of opinion oft expressed in these pages when RS cars are discussed. From there it boils down to a discussion as to whether one drives full time or not, or more specifically if the income from RS is core or supplemental. That may be a key dividing line as to the bet RS car.

I have always felt that the ideal RS car, $$ aside, is the Tesla Model X. Relatively low TCO (just don't drive into a parking garage with the falcon wing doors open), the driver controls the rear doors, and it qualifies for the premium service levels, starting with XL. Entry cost is prohibitive for most.

Which leaves the Chevy Bolt. As some of you know I am now on my second Bolt. 65K miles on #1 with ridiculously low TCO, no mechanical trouble, roomy for pax, and can even fit a couple of sets of golf clubs. The first Bolt was leased. I turned it in early to purchase a 40K Bolt for 22K. That is California of course, but the deals are so good it may be worth coming in from out of state for some.

The price of used Bolts 2017 to 2022 will likely continue to crash over the next couple of years. They are all built on the same platform. There will be a new platform and battery in 2023, which will be another factor in the price decay of older models. Stay away from the new Bolt EUV (2022, same platform) unless you like trading cargo space for 3" extra rear leg room.


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## Flawlessbox (Oct 6, 2019)

Buying new will put you in deeper hole.

Drive what you have or car you can pay it in full. Look for basic reliable brands like Toyota, Honda, Mazda or recent Hyundai/Kia, Uber and Pax don’t give shit between cars with all the bells and whistles and base models. If the car combined MPG is less than 25, it’s not worth picking up base X.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> I have bought in to the idea of buying new as well. It goes against the body of opinion oft expressed in these pages when RS cars are discussed. From there it boils down to a discussion as to whether one drives full time or not, or more specifically if the income from RS is core or supplemental. That may be a key dividing line as to the bet RS car.
> 
> I have always felt that the ideal RS car, $$ aside, is the Tesla Model X. Relatively low TCO (just don't drive into a parking garage with the falcon wing doors open), the driver controls the rear doors, and it qualifies for the premium service levels, starting with XL. Entry cost is prohibitive for most.
> 
> ...


How long does it take to do a full charge at home?

What about the recent safety upgrade by GM that limits batter charge to 90%? How much is the range reduced?


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> How long does it take to do a full charge at home?
> 
> What about the recent safety upgrade by GM that limits batter charge to 90%? How much is the range reduced?


Good questions. You have just hit the weak link of the Bolt; Charging. Most new EVs now charge faster than the Bolt. I was getting about 220-250 miles of range on my 2019. I would stop for a meal and put 100 miles back on in 45 minutes. If you rack up less miles than that per day you're golden. You can charge at home (unless you live in an apartment) overnight, usually at reduced rates, although I don't know about Toronto. Cold weather reduces range, so that might be a factor for you.

I did not bring my car in for the recall so I never lost the 10% off above number. Because of the conditions present when the fires occurred I did not feel at high risk. The recall affects only 2017-2019. The 2020 and 2021 Bolts use a slightly different cell chemistry that is not under recall. Those latter years also picked up 20 miles of additional range.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

SHalester said:


> best RS vehicle is the one you already own. Preferably you had it for years and is paid off or nearly paid off AND it is still your primary family car.
> 
> Buying a new car just for RS? Epic mistake. Buying a 2nd POS of RS, almost equally epic mistake due to carrying costs of an additional vehicle.
> 
> RS full timers, your mileage may differ from those of us who only do this for a sliver of time.


Considering how low the Uber-X fares are, buying a POS or 10 year old Honda, Toyota or Mazda would be perfect for these cheapo Pax. This would allow you to not worry about the depreciation hit on your vehicle for the low fares. However, older vehicles are not appealing aesthetically, less comfortable and reliability may come into question.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> However, older vehicles are not appealing aesthetically, less comfortable and reliability may come into question.


That is the burning question for all Uber drivers: Do you spend big bucks on a newer car with lower miles and some warranty coverage remaining, or do you gamble on a $4000 car that is entirely depreciated, but could have you playing whack-a-mole with repairing various components?

Since 1991 I've only owned cars with over 100,000 miles on the odometer. My experience is that if you keep up the maintenance, don't drive like a jerkwad, and replace crucial components before they become problematic, you'll probably get to 200,000 with no big system failures.

So, that's 100,000 additional revenue miles on a car that you can buy for 70% less than a new car. Plus, if you pay cash for it, there's no banknote to finance and no requirement to have full coverage insurance. 

I highly recommend used cars from reputable dealers. Also, it helps to have shade-tree mechanic on standby. I have one, and he'll do jobs well under what any shop will charge. It isn't always easy to find these folks, but if you scout Craigslist every so often, one will appear.


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## circuitsports (Apr 19, 2020)

The perfect vehicle is a prius, when you drive like an idiot going the wrong way down the street or park in the middle of the street for a pickup no one will be surprised plus when Uber rates get low you can rent it out as a soup kitchen and upload the video to onlyfans. 

Anyone planning a years long life as a Uber slave is a moron BTW


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> Buying a new car just for RS? Epic mistake. Buying a 2nd POS of RS, almost equally epic mistake due to carrying costs of an additional vehicle.
> 
> RS full timers, your mileage may differ from those of us who only do this for a sliver of time.


You have it backward. Your personal car is a liability. Owning the car outright for ridesourcing turns the car into an asset. Your personal car is a backup when your regular car is out of service.

If you drive more than half time for Lyft/Uber/Doordash, you should have a car dedicated only for ridesourcing and use the depreciation method instead of the IRS rate of $0.56/mile. The cost-basis deductions are superior to the standard mileage rate for most cars. You can't do that easily if you also drive the car for personal use. Pay cash for the car, and buy an older car because it depreciates faster (i.e. larger deduction relative to the income it generates = more cash in your pocket). Bank 8% of all income to replace the car every 3 years when the car has been fully depreciated (i.e. no more tax deduction available to extract from the car). Sell the old car and pay cash for another used car using the 8% of earnings you had been saving every week.

Directly to the point of the OP:
A 2016-2018 ICE is the best car because they are relatively cheap, depreciate in your favor, and have modest maintenance costs. The benefit declines as gas prices rise, but until gas is $5/gallon or cars drive themselves, hybrids and EVs are still cost prohibitive. Narrowing, but the gap is not closed. Hydrogen fuel cell can't make you money, even with the CA rebate and the green fee Uber shares with you, and useless in most geographies. A 2016 Prius is the most cost-effective hybrid, if you can find one. Any older and you start to lose the benefits of depreciation and low maintenance costs. A brand new ICE is more cost effective than a used EV. EVs are not an option for anyone who parks on the street or lives in the car. I crunched the numbers extensively last winter and read the published literature on the topic while developing my LLC's business plan to own a fleet of cars. I have not, however, crunched the numbers since Uber began giving the driver $0.50 green fee because I don't know enough about how the fee works. I drive an ICE.

I thought about leasing my personal car to my LLC, but the lowest risk way was to sell the car to my LLC using a note and $1000 down payment. The LLC now sends me a check every month for $418, of which ~$20 is taxable income (interest on the loan). If I stop driving, I can either sell the car and pay off the note, or I can take back the car used as collateral on the note. I am my own bank and leasing agent, making a little bit of money at both ends of the transaction. You can't do this as sole proprietor.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

circuitsports said:


> Anyone planning a years long life as a Uber slave is a moron BTW


Nobody is planning that. But, if you plan to drive for side money, like I do, you need to take into consideration such factors as depreciation and reliability. I don't want to devalue my personal vehicle too quickly, which is why I consider avoiding newer cars for this gig.


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## 68350 (May 24, 2017)

Schmanthony said:


> 2017 Camry LE... 4 cylinder, 6-speed automatic transmission, non-hybrid, non-turbo, non-cvt, non-AWD, no bumpers filled with ridiculous sensors or circuitry. Black interior. Simple, bulletproof, comfortable, adequate size, easy to work on, holds its value, lasts forever with little more than routine maintenance.


Much like my basic 2016 Accord. 4 cyl, average 31mpg. Great power in a 4 cyl engine! Good legroom, good trunk space for suitcases. Bought it 3 years old. DON'T buy NEW, for FT rideshare.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Best car is an EV. You need to minimize the fuel costs. TCO is cheaper for an EV vs. ICE vehicle. No oil changes, brakes lasting 5 times longer, no additional maintenance. And, per KW/h cost to run an EV will almost be much cheaper than using gasoline, for each km/mile driven
> 
> Ask @Kurt Halfyard, he swears by his plug in GM Volt.


Curious, what makes the brakes last so long? Can this be achieved on a gas vehicle?


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Diamondraider said:


> Curious, what makes the brakes last so long? Can this be achieved on a gas vehicle?


Key is the regenerative braking. This technology uses the electric motors to slow and stop the car. Instead of converting the kinetic energy into friction, the energy is transferred to the electric motors which drives the motors to recharge the battery. Thus, much less reliance on your brake pads and rotors. 

No, this technology doesn't exist on ICE vehicles. If you want long lasting brakes, consider using ceramic rotors instead of steel rotors. These will last twice as long as regular steel rotors.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

🤮🤢

I cancel until I get something besides a precious prius.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Key is the regenerative braking. This technology uses the electric motors to slow and stop the car. Instead of converting the kinetic energy into friction, the energy is transferred to the electric motors which drives the motors to recharge the battery. Thus, much less reliance on your brake pads and rotors.
> 
> No, this technology doesn't exist on ICE vehicles. If you want long lasting brakes, consider using ceramic rotors instead of steel rotors. These will last twice as long as regular steel rotors.


Great info. Thanks.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

EastBayRides said:


> You have it backward.





EastBayRides said:


> You have it backward.


Sometimes, maybe even many times. You aren't suggesting I change my opinion so you grade it better? That would make me sheep following YOU?¿ Hard pass.

The best RS vehicle EVER is one you already own. Have owned. For a while. It's not a hard concept to figure out. The vehicle you have already is the CHEAPEST option, EVER. 

Are you suggesting buying a 2nd vehicle JUST for RS? Well, perhaps that is an option for a 'somebody' who plans on doing RS full time. That percent, per Uber, is not very high. The rest of us, who do it for a sliver of time, prefer not to waste $$ on a 2nd vehicle. Wanna know why? The addition costs force you to drive even longer to break even; hard pass. Some of us actually try to reduce fixed costs so as to work a few hours as possible for nothing. 

No doubt somebody trying to make a living via RS will have different opinions. Fine, they can knock themselves out with fixed costs from hell. 

I was speaking for part-timers and those folks just beginning. The car they have is the best. Mine was 4+ years old and already had 60k mileage on it. And it still rocks as a ride. So not a precious prius. 

Now play it forward.


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Key is the regenerative braking. This technology uses the electric motors to slow and stop the car. Instead of converting the kinetic energy into friction, the energy is transferred to the electric motors which drives the motors to recharge the battery. Thus, much less reliance on your brake pads and rotors.


Exactly. It is the charging of the battery when the motor is switched to "alternator mode" when decelerating that actually slows the car down. It loads down the motor, and the motor is directly connected to the axles. If the battery is full you don't get the effect. Some cars, like the Bolt, augment regen with an electric current at very slow speeds to bring the car to a dead halt w/o touching the brakes.

That is why range on EVs is higher in stop n go traffic and lower on freeway trips. The opposite of gas/diesel driven cars.


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## ChicagoHeat12 (May 6, 2015)

Worst mistake is to buy new. You're throwing money immediately into the trash doing that
Buy as fuel efficient as you can as cheaply as you can don't spend over $20k. Honestly, I wouldn't spend over $12k.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

Unless you're doing this strictly for fun, I can't believe anyone would purchase a new car for rideshare. 
Over the first 5 years (if your new car even lasts that long doing rideshare) your new car will lose most of its value and certainly eat significantly into your earnings.


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

ChicagoHeat12 said:


> Worst mistake is to buy new. You're throwing money immediately into the trash doing that
> Buy as fuel efficient as you can as cheaply as you can don't spend over $20k. Honestly, I wouldn't spend over $12k.


You can also buy new and spend less than $20k ... or even little more than $12k.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Illini said:


> Unless you're doing this strictly for fun, I can't believe anyone would purchase a new car for rideshare.


I love the people who say they get good driver ratings by having a newer/fancier car for rideshare. As if that star rating is going to boost their trade-in value from the dealership.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

rkozy said:


> I love the people who say they get good driver ratings by having a newer/fancier car for rideshare.


Yeah, not. Pax are more verbal with a niceR ride, but they don't tip because they said something nice about your vehicle. I'd be rolling in tips if that were so.....


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## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

People seem to put way too much emphasis on fuel economy over other costs like depreciation, longevity, and maintenance.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Best car is an EV. You need to minimize the fuel costs. TCO is cheaper for an EV vs. ICE vehicle. No oil changes, brakes lasting 5 times longer, no additional maintenance. And, per KW/h cost to run an EV will almost be much cheaper than using gasoline, for each km/mile driven
> 
> Ask @Kurt Halfyard, he swears by his plug in GM Volt.


My gas costs about $2-3 per hour. That is less than one short trip per hour. It isn't worth it to spend a lot on an EV and have limited range and limited charging capabilities. Takes too long to charge also. A hybrid would be the best bet at this time if concerned about gas costs. My vehicle averages about 22mpg, so not that great.

My gas costs per hour is easy to calculate. My dash gives average speed of about 22mph and I get about 22mpg on average. So essentially it is a gallon per hour. Even if gas is $3-4 the marginal difference isn't that much. A car that gets over 30mpg the costs would go down to about $2 per hour.


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## Gigworker (Oct 23, 2019)

If you are doing this almost full time, or full time, get a Prius with around 100,000 miles for around $10,000. If you are doing this just a few hours a week, it doesn’t matter what you drive. If you buy a new car to drive full time, your depreciation will be high. Who wants to buy a 2 year old car with maybe 100,000 miles , and how much would it be worth ? It is better to buy a 8-10 year old Prius.


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## SecludedEmotion (Apr 26, 2021)

I use a 2018 Mitsubishi Mirage G4. They are only 12,000$ new. 3 cylinder, gets like 35+ miles to a gallon. Has the nice touch screen stereo system with CD and blue tooth and the apple carplay and Android auto. Seats five easily. Plenty of modification items available online. Trunks good sized. Back up camera. Some packages offer a push button start, I didn't get it tho. Opted for the nice rims and better interior. A real good thing to keep in mind is it's wreck worthy, I was sitting at a red light and some idiot plowed into my rear end doing 50. It buckled my trunk and the body parts around the bumper, but the spare tire in the bottom of the trunk and back seat didn't even get damaged a single bit. And he was driving a 90s model Chevy Impala. I got hit by a fn tank doing highway speeds and my little meep-meep mobile drove away from the wreck. DOWNSIDES: it does unfortunately have a CVT and the tires can be difficult to track down locally because they are an oddball size. Now, that said, it does come with a 10yr/100,000 mile power train warranty and the tires are on Amazon for like 45$. So all in all, I'm pleased with my purchase. It gets me around Dallas with no trouble.


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## Uber Crack (Jul 19, 2017)

100% a Prius, especially a white one. 

No one wants to ever borrow it since it's "embarrassing". Many times I have said, "you can take my car." only to hear a resounding, "no thanks." 

You can get away with anything because there are so many Priuses who could prove it was you?

People buy into the stereotype and expect you to drive like sh*t, so the expectation is low. As I always say, "I never get road rage - but I can cause it." 

Finally, that awesome moment when pax can't believe it's a Prius because it's so roomy in the back and they're blown away and give you five stars and confess they were about to cancel the ride when they saw it was a Prius but didn't. 

Those are the fun reasons. Boring reasons:
Fuel mileage ✅ 
Very comfortable ✅ 
Affordable ✅ 
Helping the planet 🌏 ✅ 
Can take a pax's bicycle ✅


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> Sometimes, maybe even many times. You aren't suggesting I change my opinion so you grade it better? That would make me sheep following YOU?¿ Hard pass.
> 
> The best RS vehicle EVER is one you already own. Have owned. For a while. It's not a hard concept to figure out. The vehicle you have already is the CHEAPEST option, EVER.
> 
> ...


I am suggesting exactly what I wrote, that your initial comment was wrong. It's still wrong. I will not change my tune just to be argumentative or to gaslight as you just did. 

I see the new layout lists the trolls on the right. Dude, you make an average of 32 comments per day. I understand that when one doesn't work for his money that he has a lot of time on his hands, but try doing something productive.


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

Schmanthony said:


> People seem to put way too much emphasis on fuel economy over other costs like depreciation, longevity, and maintenance.


Exactly. An EV does not depreciate fast enough to offset the cost of gas or the higher price of the car. Not even close. Gas price is 50% higher than a year ago. Profit did not drop by 50% because gas prices soared. Depreciation is by far the highest cost, yet few drivers seem to understand that. All you need to do is look up what is included in the $0.56/mile IRS rate...$0.27/mi is depreciation. It costs me about $0.12/mi for gas to operate my ICE in California ($4+/gal). This should be a no-brainer issue...buy the cheapest car you can find, which is probably going to be an ICE.


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> Yeah, not. Pax are more verbal with a niceR ride, but they don't tip because they said something nice about your vehicle. I'd be rolling in tips if that were so.....


You need to stop commenting as though you work. You do not receive tips, regardless what car your wife and the taxpayers are paying for you to have sit idle in the driveway.


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## Rideshare Dude (Aug 27, 2020)

Karen Stein said:


> I’ve been driving rideshare for about 4-1/2 years, and I’d like to share my thoughts. After 300,000+ miles ‘on the meter,’ I ought to have some thoughts. I’ve used three personally owned cars and three rentals.
> Cars like the Kia Soul and Toyota Yaris work fine, but are a bit small. Roof pillars give you massive blind spots. Acceleration is weak.
> 
> My advice? Go up a notch. My current car is a Toyota Corolla Hatchback , with the larger engine. I’d rate this car as 95% perfect. The only quibbles are the lack of a remote release for the hatch and limited cargo space ( because of the slope of the rear window).
> ...


Comfort and XL are where the money is. You can play around with nickel and dime X rides all day or give yourself a raise. Kia or Hyundai SUV. Consumers reports has created a cult of people who think their cars are better. If so, why don’t they offer the same warranty as Kia and Hyundai?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

jfinks said:


> My gas costs per hour is easy to calculate. My dash gives average speed of about 22mph and I get about 22mpg on average. So essentially it is a gallon per hour. Even if gas is $3-4 the marginal difference isn't that much. A car that gets over 30mpg the costs would go down to about $2 per hour.


I generally agree that fuel costs aren't a huge obstacle to profitability. I'm driving a roomy SUV that doesn't get the best mileage, but even if gas went down to $1.50 per gallon (like it was when we were all in COVID prison) my average daily profit wouldn't go up tremendously.

The biggest determinant of profitability is how much gas/time you waste on dead miles, and how many of your passengers are generous tippers. Everything else, including overall fuel costs, are secondary considerations.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

SecludedEmotion said:


> I use a 2018 Mitsubishi Mirage G4. They are only 12,000$ new. 3 cylinder, gets like 35+ miles to a gallon.


I work for a large fleet vehicle company, and we have those cars in our inventory. I've driven the G4 numerous times. It's surprising to me that Uber/Lyft allows a car that small for rideshare. Three people in the backseat of one of those has to be real tight.

But, for fuel economy and cost-per-mile versus investment, that would be a pretty good deal. I'd just be worried about the size of passengers I'm picking up. Americans aren't getting any smaller, and many of these paxholes like to see how much crap from Wal-Mart they can squeeze into an Uber, plus themselves and three kids.


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## Schmanthony (Nov 18, 2017)

rkozy said:


> The biggest determinant of profitability is how much gas/time you waste on dead miles, and how many of your passengers are generous tippers. Everything else, including overall fuel costs, are secondary considerations.


Different markets are different, but in the 3.5 years I've been driving in Chicago I would say the biggest determinants of profitibility here are surge, promos, and the drivers' ability to capitalize on them. Fuel costs are low on the list. And tips are even lower (basically negligible).


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

EastBayRides said:


> You have it backward. Your personal car is a liability. Owning the car outright for ridesourcing turns the car into an asset. Your personal car is a backup when your regular car is out of service.
> 
> If you drive more than half time for Lyft/Uber/Doordash, you should have a car dedicated only for ridesourcing and use the depreciation method instead of the IRS rate of $0.56/mile. The cost-basis deductions are superior to the standard mileage rate for most cars. You can't do that easily if you also drive the car for personal use. Pay cash for the car, and buy an older car because it depreciates faster (i.e. larger deduction relative to the income it generates = more cash in your pocket). Bank 8% of all income to replace the car every 3 years when the car has been fully depreciated (i.e. no more tax deduction available to extract from the car). Sell the old car and pay cash for another used car using the 8% of earnings you had been saving every week.
> 
> ...


I remember a comedian who did a bit about landlords and tenants and what a bad landlord he had, the joke was that his accountant had set things up so that he rented from himself

I considered doing something similar to what you are doing but I didn’t see the advantage, and since one man LLCs are taxed as individual income It seemed to me that you are just moving money from one pocket to another with no real benefit.

unless of course you have built that fleet. Have you??


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## SecludedEmotion (Apr 26, 2021)

rkozy said:


> I work for a large fleet vehicle company, and we have those cars in our inventory. I've driven the G4 numerous times. It's surprising to me that Uber/Lyft allows a car that small for rideshare. Three people in the backseat of one of those has to be real tight.
> 
> But, for fuel economy and cost-per-mile versus investment, that would be a pretty good deal. I'd just be worried about the size of passengers I'm picking up. Americans aren't getting any smaller, and many of these paxholes like to see how much crap from Wal-Mart they can squeeze into an Uber, plus themselves and three kids.


Surprisingly I rarely pick up more than 1-2 people. So it works real well for me. LoL I've literally had a f*ck it night where six passengers climbed in and sat on each other's laps. They handed me a hundo straight up and were all drunk as hell. I wasn't gonna say no to a ben franklin at 3am on a 2 mile trip. Lololol


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

SecludedEmotion said:


> Surprisingly I rarely pick up more than 1-2 people. So it works real well for me. LoL I've literally had a f*ck it night where six passengers climbed in and sat on each other's laps.


I've bent the rules in scenarios like that as well. Of course, I have an SUV where there's a bit more room to pull that off. But, HEY! If these morons want to play a game of Twister in the backseat for a few miles, and there's additional money in it for me, I'll play along.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Schmanthony said:


> Different markets are different, but in the 3.5 years I've been driving in Chicago I would say the biggest determinants of profitibility here are surge, promos, and the drivers' ability to capitalize on them. Fuel costs are low on the list. And tips are even lower (basically negligible).


In my market, tips are the primary means of fare fluctuation. The surge is gone here, and promo offerings by Uber and Lyft are quite rare. Not unheard of, mind you, but they only show up once every few months.

I'm also lucky to live in an area that is probably a bit more generous with tipping pax than most others I've read about here. Some days, everybody is dropping me an extra bill or two, even on the shortest of rides. On days where the tippers stay home, I can definitely notice it in my bottom line.

Empty miles, though. I can control that. Not only do they quickly waste your gas, but depending on the pick-up route, they can drastically kill your time efficiencies as well.


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

rkozy said:


> I work for a large fleet vehicle company, and we have those cars in our inventory. I've driven the G4 numerous times. It's surprising to me that Uber/Lyft allows a car that small for rideshare. Three people in the backseat of one of those has to be real tight.


New Mirage is more spacious than majority of compact cars (Civic, Corolla, etc) from 10-15 years ago. If Uber doesn't allow Mirage then they would have to not allow these other cars too and by doing that they would lose 75% of their drivers.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Karen Stein said:


> Buy new if you can.


My thoughts on buying new for rideshare....that's absolutely nuts!


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

The best vehicle for me was my SUV. It handled extremely well in snow, and I did not get stuck as many cars did. It was safer for country driving when many deer would dart out from the road. It gave my me and my pax more leg/cargo room, and it was easier for people to get in/out of. My gas mileage was decent 36 hwy/27 city. There's no way I could've sat in a lower car driving all day.


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## jfinks (Nov 24, 2016)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> My thoughts on buying new for rideshare....that's absolutely nuts!


If a car has a great warranty, most don't, then buying new can make more sense. I still wouldn't, I'd look for about a 5-10 year old vehicle with low miles and in good cosmetic condition.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Invisible said:


> The best vehicle for me was my SUV. There's no way I could've sat in a lower car driving all day.


That's the other half of the equation for me. I want something that is comfortable and enjoyable driving. My other job puts me in all kinds of vehicles, from Hyundai Accents to Ford F-250 diesels to Mercedes Sprinter vans. I get the entire spectrum.

There's no way I could spend my day driving a tiny car. I'll gladly take a hit on fuel economy just for some additional comfort. The rear cargo hatch in my SUV has come in handy many times.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

rkozy said:


> That's the other half of the equation for me. I want something that is comfortable and enjoyable driving. My other job puts me in all kinds of vehicles, from Hyundai Accents to Ford F-250 diesels to Mercedes Sprinter vans. I get the entire spectrum.
> 
> There's no way I could spend my day driving a tiny car. I'll gladly take a hit on fuel economy just for some additional comfort. The rear cargo hatch in my SUV has come in handy many times.


Exactly,!! I forgot to add the visibility is also better. With so many SUV's on the road, I wouldn't want to be a low car anymore. .


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Syn said:


> New Mirage is more spacious than majority of compact cars (Civic, Corolla, etc) from 10-15 years ago. If Uber doesn't allow Mirage then they would have to not allow these other cars too and by doing that they would lose 75% of their drivers.


Aren't all subcompact vehicle banned on Lyft now? So, your sub compact car only limits you to Uber only?


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Uber Crack said:


> 100% a Prius, especially a white one.
> 
> No one wants to ever borrow it since it's "embarrassing". Many times I have said, "you can take my car." only to hear a resounding, "no thanks."
> 
> ...


Brilliant.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Aren't all subcompact vehicle banned on Lyft now? So, your sub compact car only limits you to Uber only?





https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/115013077448-Vehicle-requirements



They say they won't accept "certain" subcompacts. I don't know how much more stringent their requirements are versus Uber. Needless to say, I won't be switching to a small car anytime soon. Cars that look like they should be accompanied by calliope music just aren't my thing.


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## Syn (Jun 30, 2017)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> Aren't all subcompact vehicle banned on Lyft now? So, your sub compact car only limits you to Uber only?


No. I drive Toyota Yaris and I still do both. Although I remember when Lyft said that they will no longer allow subcompact cars (not sure what happened with that rule), but I was grandfathered in.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

EastBayRides said:


> You need to stop commenting as though you work. You do not receive tips,


oh, I see 'angry' driver is back among us. I'm so happy you poked your head up again.

Work? Do you consider RS working? If so, that is your first mistake.

No tips? Tips are like xmas morning, but kinda more often. They came, I thanked them. But to say no tips, you are inventing things again. Another mistake.

Taxpayers are paying for my vehicles? Really? Did they send a check? I only ask because I haven't received it yet. Can you look into it. Thanks, you are a doll. Well, an angry doll. 

And remember even a precious prius you already own, although embarrassing, is still an ideal RS ride. Suits you, too.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

SHalester said:


> Work? Do you consider RS working? If so, that is your first mistake.


It's more a combination of leisure driving and gambling. Sure, you're ultimately doing it for money, but if that is your only concern, rideshare is going to be a miserable experience.


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

rkozy said:


> It's more a combination of leisure driving and gambling. Sure, you're ultimately doing it for money, but if that is your only concern, rideshare is going to be a miserable experience.


I think this is the best thing I've read on UP.NET in some time.
It is wise to do this part time, and not full time. Prove me otherwise.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> It is wise to do this part time,


amen. As a side gig. Where one is not dependent on the income. It supplements other income. 

Because really, at the heart of it, RS is the post perfect pt job ever.


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## Gone_in_60_seconds (Jan 21, 2018)

Kurt Halfyard said:


> I think this is the best thing I've read on UP.NET in some time.
> It is wise to do this part time, and not full time. Prove me otherwise.


With Covid 19, Its less stable now than moonlighting as a movie critic. LOL


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## Kurt Halfyard (Dec 13, 2017)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> With Covid 19, Its less stable now than moonlighting as a movie critic. LOL


Rest-assured the latter paid nearly nothing. It was a subsidized hobby on a good year. Mainly festival access, much of which I still have some.
You can still find me from time to time banging out reviews: 








Review: LIMBO, Gently Absurd, Riotously Funny Refugee Experience


Amir El-Masry, Vikash Bhai and Kwabena Ansah star; Ben Sharrock wrote and directed.



screenanarchy.com












Review: ANOTHER ROUND, Bottoms Up, Says Mads Mikkelsen


Thomas Vinterberg's latest comedy of manners is as bourgeoisie-punk as ever. He leaped onto the global stage, along with Lars von Trier, with the collaborative manifesto Dogme95, and its first film Festen (The Celebration), which re-wrote the design rules of...



screenanarchy.com


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Schmanthony said:


> Different markets are different, but in the 3.5 years I've been driving in Chicago I would say the biggest determinants of profitibility here are surge, promos, and the drivers' ability to capitalize on them. Fuel costs are low on the list. And tips are even lower (basically negligible).


Exactly


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Gone_in_60_seconds said:


> What about the recent safety upgrade by GM that limits batter charge to 90%? How much is the range reduced?


This just in:

I received the following email from GM today regarding my 2019 Bolt (they don't know I already turned the car in). Very good news. I didn't know if they would be able to pull this off....


Tron,In November of last year, we notified you of a safety recall for your 2019 model year Chevy Bolt EV. We are pleased to let you know that the recall remedy is now available at your Chevrolet EV Dealer and that the remedy will be provided to you free of charge.As part of the service procedure, dealers will utilize GM‑developed diagnostic tools to identify potential battery anomalies and* replace battery module assemblies as necessary*. The remedy will also include the installation of advanced onboard diagnostic software into these vehicles that, among other things, has the ability to detect potential issues related to changes in battery module performance before problems can develop.Owners will need to visit their nearest participating Chevrolet EV dealer to have the remedy service procedure performed. *Once the remedy procedure is completed, the dealer will remove the 90% state of charge limitation* and return the battery to its previous 100% charging capability.Owners of a 2019 model year Chevrolet Bolt EV will be able to have this remedy performed starting on April 29.


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## mikes424 (May 22, 2016)

Couple of items I want to mention.
1) You will be in the car for long hours. One consideration should be how comfortable you are in the car. I drive a 2015 Sonata. Roomy and comfortable with a large trunk. MPG about 26. Not great but not bad. I have gotten compliments on both passenger room and trunk space.
2) If you are looking at a hybrid or EV I suggest you investigate the cost to replace the battery(s). I was looking at hybrids before I bought my Sonata. Depending on which vehicle quotes I received varied from $4-10,000. Battery life is usually estimated for 100k miles.


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

oldfart said:


> I remember a comedian who did a bit about landlords and tenants and what a bad landlord he had, the joke was that his accountant had set things up so that he rented from himself
> 
> I considered doing something similar to what you are doing but I didn’t see the advantage, and since one man LLCs are taxed as individual income It seemed to me that you are just moving money from one pocket to another with no real benefit.
> 
> unless of course you have built that fleet. Have you??


It's nontaxable income. The market-rate office rent I charge my LLC is 3x higher than I could deduct from my personal income tax return based on a percentage of my rent-controlled apartment actually used. If I have to explain everything to you, I will start charging you for the information.


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

SHalester said:


> oh, I see 'angry' driver is back among us. I'm so happy you poked your head up again.
> 
> Work? Do you consider RS working? If so, that is your first mistake.
> 
> ...


Always commenting, never saying anything.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

EastBayRides said:


> It's nontaxable income. The market-rate office rent I charge my LLC is 3x higher than I could deduct from my personal income tax return based on a percentage of my rent-controlled apartment actually used. If I have to explain everything to you, I will start charging you for the information.


no need to explain I know what you are doing, I just dont need to do anything like it. and neither do most of us here. Between the standard mileage deduction on the schedule C and the standard personal deduction on the 1040, all my income is non taxable income

By the way, that rent you charge your LLC is your income and it should be reported on your 1040 schedule E

If I have to explain that to you I suggest you consult a tax accountant


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## actsholy (Jul 3, 2018)

Karen Stein said:


> I’ve been driving rideshare for about 4-1/2 years, and I’d like to share my thoughts. After 300,000+ miles ‘on the meter,’ I ought to have some thoughts. I’ve used three personally owned cars and three rentals.
> Cars like the Kia Soul and Toyota Yaris work fine, but are a bit small. Roof pillars give you massive blind spots. Acceleration is weak.
> 
> My advice? Go up a notch. My current car is a Toyota Corolla Hatchback , with the larger engine. I’d rate this car as 95% perfect. The only quibbles are the lack of a remote release for the hatch and limited cargo space ( because of the slope of the rear window).
> ...


Get a loan out on a really expensive car then go out ant join the ant farm of driver's. And watch the Dara CEO Bait and Switch show, you'll love it just remember never count your expenses, like those pesky costs like gas wear and tear on your car or insurance or medical costs. Just focus on the carrot in front of you nothing else. Then you'll be like the rest of the ants thinking your making Bank.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

EastBayRides said:


> Always commenting, never saying anything.


I'll slow down for the next one oh angry driver. Sorry for going too fast for you.


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## 197438 (Mar 7, 2020)

oldfart said:


> I just dont need to do anything like it. and neither do most of us here.


I don't recall insisting that anyone needs to do anything. Take it or leave it. It cost you nothing.


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## Rex8976 (Nov 11, 2014)

NEVER buy new.

1. It doesn't stay new forever.

B. 2-3 year old vehicles is where you want to be. Most of the depreciation is gone.

♓. Don't let a few miles scare you off. You'll be putting on plenty.

4.) Remember, every piece of junk you see on the road was at one time
not only brand new but someone's dream car.

Until next time, back to under my rock!


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## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Anything powered by diesel
.27 a gallon to make


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

Yeah, but diesel is the worst pollution machine. Far worse than gas engines.


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

EastBayRides said:


> I don't recall insisting that anyone needs to do anything. Take it or leave it. It cost you nothing.


you posted something which, the way I view a forum, invited comment, I committed


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## Bork_Bork_Bork (May 20, 2019)

phoneguy said:


> Been doing this for 6 years - In Pittsburgh. I would recommend a Toyota Prius - They are hard to find since people get them and they never rid of them.
> My first car was a 2013 Hyundai Sonota - 27 MPG and break every 40K.
> Second - 2011 Toyota Prius - 43 MPG and 138K before the first brake job, only reason I got rid of it, catalytic converter cost $2700 and can only be purchased from Toyota - no after market - it had 221K and I wanted a new car
> Third - 2021 Toyota Prius - 56 MPG, roomy, modern, and everyone is surprised at how nice it is.
> ...


Math is hard for ya, eh?


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## oldfart (Dec 22, 2017)

Mine may not be the ideal rideshare car, but it has been pretty good to me


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## Bork_Bork_Bork (May 20, 2019)

SecludedEmotion said:


> Surprisingly I rarely pick up more than 1-2 people. So it works real well for me. LoL I've literally had a f*ck it night where six passengers climbed in and sat on each other's laps. They handed me a hundo straight up and were all drunk as hell. I wasn't gonna say no to a ben franklin at 3am on a 2 mile trip. Lololol


So we know you’ll do anything for money…..


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## Igimba331999 (Oct 12, 2020)

I refuse to take advice from a Karen. Nothing good can come from such foolish behavior. It's like asking a bear for advice about how to trick a bear into not attacking you. Sorry Karen you might be wonderful and closer to a Beth or Kim, but life has taught me that's an act and you can't be trusted. Good luck to you and I hope you buy a Cayenne for R/S.


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