# Prove that your maintenance/repair and depreciation was 57c/mile



## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Show me the receipts and I'll delete this thread. Prove that you sold your car - and for x dollars less than you would have if it was not an Uber car.

Proof please. I contend that with your nice new cars, apart from cleaning because of stinky passengers, they hold up fine and you are NOT out of pocket.

I would think nothing of driving from Silicon Valley to Tahoe skiing every weekend, or to Tahoe from Sacramento for an afternoon joy ride, or Yellowstone, or even LA to try out a good food truck.

So what's the beef with using those miles for Uber instead? I have an extended warranty and prepaid dealer service contract.

Any takers?


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## The Kid (Dec 10, 2014)

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2013/04/cos...ording-to-aaas-2013-your-driving-costs-study/


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Show me the receipts and I'll delete this thread. Prove that you sold your car - and for x dollars less than you would have if it was not an Uber car.
> 
> Proof please. I contend that with your nice new cars, apart from cleaning because of stinky passengers, they hold up fine and you are NOT out of pocket.
> 
> ...


It's not that it costs .57 per mile today. This is what the IRS allows for gas, repairs, insurance and all other costs IE:depreciation involved with using a vehicle for business.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Which I claim is bogus, because I am using my family car - which I never get to "depreciate' in the real world. 

The IRS 57 cents deduction is a dream because at these rates I'll never have to pay income tax on the money I make through Uber.


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Which I claim is bogus, because I am using my family car - which I never get to "depreciate' in the real world.
> 
> The IRS 57 cents deduction is a dream because at these rates I'll never have to pay income tax on the money I make.


Are you complaining about that? They wasted I mean spent good money to do the study for this figure. Use it and be happy, or use your actual costs it's up to you.


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## John_in_kc (Sep 30, 2014)

I get what you are saying OP. Everyone here who uses the mileage deduction as a way to say they made less is not looking at it right. it is a way to reduce tax liability. depreciation isn't realized until sale. keep a car 10 years and it won't mean shit.

we don't work dollars per hour. it is not a job or career. it is a way to make money from a company that refers riders for a fee. Work the system to make money.

We are not employees. we are not hourly, we are not entitled (nor should we be) to anything other than the contractual agreement. Find a better way to attract riders and drivers and you will be richer than Uber.

until then, shut up and drive.


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## grams777 (Jun 13, 2014)

The IRS rate is an average among vehicle types and annual miles. Most people here will be less than that. Many might be in the 30 to 40 cent range. But just saying your expenses are gas and oil changes isn't generally realistic. Yes, one might have a new car with a warranty and all. But every mile driven marches it further toward expiration and eventual replacement.

If we're talking cash flow, that's a different story and method of accounting. But, in the long term, it's accruing over the life span that will make the most sense from an accounting standpoint. Prepaid expenses are just that, they are paid but not yet accrued. They should be properly allocated over the contract period.

The value of the windfall from the extra tax deduction will vary widely depending on your overall tax situation. The best way to do that is compare your total annual tax with and without the extra mileage deduction for your vehicle.


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## BlkGeep (Dec 7, 2014)

It's perfectly reasonable to discuss this.

150000 miles (lifetime on most cars these days) x .57 = $85500

Vehicle after cost of financing is about $25000 let's say.
Gas roughly ten cents a mile is about 
$15000.
Oil changes about $1000 on the high end.
Same in car washes $1000 if you use an unlimited plan.
Tires $4000.
Throw $5000 in for brakes batteries and other unscheduled maintenance.

That's $50000. You should making that much a year as a full time driver each year. Three years with each vehicle. Still leaves a lot of that tax credit unaccounted for.

Let the hate gates open...


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Which I claim is bogus, because I am using my family car - which I never get to "depreciate' in the real world.
> 
> The IRS 57 cents deduction is a dream because at these rates I'll never have to pay income tax on the money I make through Uber.


My car only costs $0.32/mile. The issue isn't what the IRS decides or doesn't decide to tax. The issue is that these rates, even with $0.32/ mile costs, leaves little to nothing left for the driver unless the driver is incredibly efficient at limiting empty miles.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

I love this thread.....someone who is throwing the gauntlet down to everyone. Bravo!.

Lets see where everyone gets their calculation from.

My work pays us $0.45 per mile here. So are they off?

Rates for the CRA (Canadian IRS)

The automobile allowance rates for *2015* are:

55¢ per kilometre for the first 5,000 kilometres driven; and
49¢ per kilometre driven after that.

So looks like they feel expenses drop for a year the more you drive.

For the IRS they have the following rates

Business 57.5
Charitable 14
Medical and moving 23

You pay that rate based on the Tax rate for your line of work. Some industries pay higher net taxes. That's why they get a higher deduction limit. But hey if that's how you look at your expense costs this is always why I have felt peoples evaluations were a bit lofty.

I think $0.45 is probably more in line if not a bit higher since we are in Canada and cost of ownership of a car is higher than the US. Also our company would rather pad a bit as they do for most things and keep employees happy.

Based on Moodys a standard brand new Camay 2015 over 5 years and putting on 100,000 miles with all costs of ownership included nets out to $0.42 per mile. Based on living in Beverly Hills (With everything all in)

Make it a new Prius $0.43 (Weird it cots more but it's also a more expensive car off the lot)

This is with a brand new car. With payments. No payments this figure drops.

Glad someone else called it out.

If you want to run the numbers yourself for your model you can start here. http://www.edmunds.com/

You can do your own TCA figures


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## gman (Jul 28, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> I love this thread.....someone who is throwing the gauntlet down to everyone. Bravo!.
> 
> Lets see where everyone gets their calculation from.
> 
> ...


The AAA link above it a good one. For a "small sedan", and let's face it that's what anyone driving uber should be using, they give the following cost/mile:

10,000 miles/yr 59.5c/mile
15,000 miles/yr 46.4c/mile
20,000 miles/yr 39.8c/mile

Okay now back out ownership costs such as license, registration, insurance, finance charges, etc. that we are all paying regardless of if we are "ubering" or not, and you can subtract 10c/mile from the above figures. Since I'm at the 20,000 miles/yr mark that puts my cost per mile at roughly 30c/mile. Independent of this I had done my own analysis and came up with a figure of 25c/mile. So as far as I'm concerned the numbers jive.

That said the new rates really suck ass, but I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be just blindly using the IRS numbers.


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## gregthedriver (Dec 28, 2014)

Well if it's not so bad keep slaving away for 5 dollars an hr . See if you can save enough to pay for the thousands you will need for new tires or if you can survive an accident when your insurance kicks you out for driving uber


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## Simon (Jan 4, 2015)

My operating cost is .46 per mile. I posted a link to a calculator for it so everyone can go into Ubering with open eyes. 

Not considering the Satender Lease thing.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Everyone will have different costs. The IRS has to have a standard deduction. If you are driving a brand new E350 to Uber your costs will be much higher than someone driving an '07 Chevy Suburban. 

I mean, I get it. Everyone wants to make the numbers look as bad as possible so they "swear by" the IRS deduction. 90% of drivers will have a lower cost per mile, especially since gas is $1.70 and not $3.20 when that rate was determined. I tried to explain this in another thread but.........

My point is, use your actual expenses and the UberLie is still exposed. Lower fares does not translate to higher earnings for "partners". Not in Fantasyland or Realityworld.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

Prove it wasn't.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Show me the receipts and I'll delete this thread. Prove that you sold your car - and for x dollars less than you would have if it was not an Uber car.
> 
> Proof please. I contend that with your nice new cars, apart from cleaning because of stinky passengers, they hold up fine and you are NOT out of pocket.
> 
> ...


I would suggest that if you don't like what the IRS has decided that you contact them and voice your concern. Otherwise that is the law until it is changed by Congress or the IRS.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Bob Reynolds said:


> I would suggest that if you don't like what the IRS has decided that you contact them and voice your concern. Otherwise that is the law until it is changed by Congress or the IRS.


I don't think the IRS deduction is being disputed. Using it to calculate true costs for a driver is inaccurate and showing a higher number than actual.

What is being asked is someone show the true math they pay that figure.


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## LAuberX (Jun 3, 2014)

If I drive my Camry 90,000 miles then sell it for say $14,000 my cost would be closer to .21/mile all in.

Sale price may be higher.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Bob Reynolds said:


> I would suggest that if you don't like what the IRS has decided that you contact them and voice your concern. Otherwise that is the law until it is changed by Congress or the IRS.


I think you may be missing the point. 57.5 may be great for tax purposes but in reality most people's actual expenses will be less. Again, that does not make it profitable to drive at .75 per mile. I don't see how anyone can make a reasonable wage at that rate even if your expenses are half what is allowed. At 1.35 per mile, I can still make it work. Not as well as before the cuts but my actual costs are not 57.5 per mile.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

You are all missing my point. If my car is Just a private car and was only used for pleasure nobody would have any beef about how much time I spend in my car ot what I did with it. 

I choose to drive around for entertainment and make a little bit of money with my private car 

I could Choose to drive back and forth across the country and spend 10,000 miles and heaven knows how much money on Cheeseburgers. I could choose to commute two hours each way from Sacramento to the San Francisco Bay Area every single day. No one would attack me for that. 

So how come everybody is getting all business on me and quoting a whole bunch of numbers. 

I choose to use the miles on my car, my private car, as a taxi. 

And still no proof from anyone that you have any unnatural expenses. 

Proof please. Not numbers.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> You are all missing my point.


Evidently. What is it?


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> You are all missing my point. If my car is Just a private car and was only used for pleasure nobody would have any beef about how much time I spend in my car ot what I did with it.
> 
> I choose to drive around for entertainment and make a little bit of money with my private car
> 
> ...


If you don't care what your lifestyle costs you, then I don't care what your lifestyle costs you either. It's your life. Have at it.

But just because you don't care what driving for Uber costs doesn't mean everyone shouldn't care.


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## Mike Vidal (Jan 10, 2015)

gman said:


> The AAA link above it a good one. For a "small sedan", and let's face it that's what anyone driving uber should be using, they give the following cost/mile:
> 
> 10,000 miles/yr 59.5c/mile
> 15,000 miles/yr 46.4c/mile
> ...


The IRS numbers give you a common baseline that is accepted to do the calculations. Better to guess on the high side than the low side and short change yourself.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> I don't think the IRS deduction is being disputed. Using it to calculate true costs for a driver is inaccurate and showing a higher number than actual.
> 
> What is being asked is someone show the true math they pay that figure.


The IRS has a whole staff of accountants that examine *ALL* costs of operating a vehicle. Many of these costs are things that non business people may not take into consideration. Even if they are not considered, the costs are still there. The IRS calculates the cost per mile on an annual basis and they do change the number every year.

This year, the IRS has determined that .57 cents a mile is the number they will allow individuals and companies, to deduct as a business expense when using their vehicle for business. If you are using your private vehicle for business then the business miles you use the vehicle for are deducted at .57 cants a mile. The miles that you drive for pleasure are not deductible.

Next year, the numbers will change. The numbers can go up or down.

Like I said if you don't like the number then you need to take it up with the IRS.

Also keep in mind that ALL miles you drive for Uber and Lyft (with or without passengers) are deductible at .57 cents per mile. So all of those miles on your way to getting a passenger(s) or returning from dropping off passengers are worth .57 cents a mile. When you take the standard .57 cents a mile deduction, you do not deduct your gas or anything else that you spent on your vehicle.

There is no need to debate or argue the costs, because the IRS says the amount is .57 cents a mile. If your amount is higher or lower it does not matter. You are restricted to .57 cents a mile.

What many people are now finding out is that the .57 cents a mile is exceeding the amount they are being paid by Uber. That means they will have a loss on their Federal taxes on their Uber income. Keep in mind that it can take 2-4 times the paid miles to service the customers since you have to drive between calls and often have to return empty from


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## Crownan (Jul 28, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Which I claim is bogus, because I am using my family car - which I never get to "depreciate' in the real world.
> 
> The IRS 57 cents deduction is a dream because at these rates I'll never have to pay income tax on the money I make through Uber.


First off, you are an idiot. Yes, I said it. Others thought it, but I said it. Using your car for personal reasons obviously entitles you to no deductions because you are not getting paid for it.

Once you use an asset in a Business, you have to determine the value of the asset versus the return you receive on it. Saying you don't care about the value of your vehicle when it is used in a Business venture is idiotic and proves you have no clue about the subject.

What most of the numbers when discussing this topic revolve around is whether the assets you employ in a Business venture actually net you a return. In reality, it is a fallacy because no one actually includes your TIME as an asset employed in the Business. Be that as it may, you do provide assets in this Business (including TIME), and you should be concerned if you are getting a return on it. Otherwise, your Business is a FAILURE.

The fact that your assets also have personal uses DOES NOT COME INTO THE EQUATION. And that you think your assets in this situation HAVE NO VALUE and therefore everything is PROFIT shows you should just spend more money on Lottery tickets and stay home.


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## PT Go (Sep 23, 2014)

I have no complaints about the deduction. It helped me reduce my tax liability by a substantial amount (kept good records). My car is paid for, already has 152K on it. I keep it maintained so that I can continue to use it when I need to as my personal driver. Vehicles need to be maintained period. I have spent less that $6k in maintenance in 8 years of ownership. The clutch, hydraulics ,timing belt have less than 14K on them. New tires and brakes last year and that's before I drove Uber. My overall costs are far cheaper than a car payment. I would have to have these repairs or maintenance done at one point or another, regardless.


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## Wagdi (Jan 21, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Show me the receipts and I'll delete this thread. Prove that you sold your car - and for x dollars less than you would have if it was not an Uber car.
> 
> Proof please. I contend that with your nice new cars, apart from cleaning because of stinky passengers, they hold up fine and you are NOT out of pocket.
> 
> ...


Are you saying that you are willing to work for those no sorry be partners with uber for 0.57cents a mile. You really have to be stupid or desperate.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

I have run my own rental business so have a very good understanding of business accounting.

I'm not desperate and I have been told I'm not stupid. But I am enjoying driving my car around and making a little money. That's all. For some reason that shakes your worldview so much that you were willing to fight. 

My question is why should I be forced to think of all this in business terms instead of just thinking about it as my own personal car that I'm using for my own personal reasons. My car has not transmogrified into anything. it's still the same car, people just want me to look at it in business terms simply because money is involved.

I don't want to.

That does not make me an idiot, it makes me a person who is making a personal choice. I may also be an idiot, but that's not the reason I am an idiot.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Bob Reynolds said:


> There is no need to debate or argue the costs, because the IRS says the amount is .57 cents a mile. If your amount is higher or lower it does not matter. You are restricted to .57 cents a mile.


You are not restricted to .57 per mile. If your actual expenses are higher than .57 per mile you can deduct those actual expenses, however, you need to have all of your documentation to prove that your expenses were higher. That means you have to keep up with receipts for gas, car washes, repairs, maintenance, etc... and have a depreciation schedule for your vehicle. Most people aren't going to be that meticulous and their expenses are not going to exceed .57 anyway.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Which I claim is bogus, because I am using my family car - which I never get to "depreciate' in the real world.
> 
> The IRS 57 cents deduction is a dream because at these rates I'll never have to pay income tax on the money I make through Uber.


However you 'use' your vehicle there are costs involved.

IF your claim is that there is no cost or that personal miles are no cost miles that claim is entirely bogus.

The only difference is that your 'personal' cost miles are not deductible and 'business cost' miles are deductible.

A lot of ride share drivers delude themselves into thinking the IRS miles deduction is profit.

It ain't. That deduction from the IRS is the price it is for genuine cost reasons. IF you can justify, in writing, higher costs than their allowance they can be deducted as well.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

LAuberX said:


> Prove it wasn't.


touche


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Crownan said:


> First off, you are an idiot. Yes, I said it. Others thought it, but I said it. Using your car for personal reasons obviously entitles you to no deductions because you are not getting paid for it.
> 
> Once you use an asset in a Business, you have to determine the value of the asset versus the return you receive on it. Saying you don't care about the value of your vehicle when it is used in a Business venture is idiotic and proves you have no clue about the subject.
> 
> ...


.....no argument from me.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Just another driver trying to justify working for nothing. 

"Hey, it's my choice to work for nothing!"

Yeah, it is. Knock yerself out.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> My question is why should I be forced to think of all this in business terms instead of just thinking about it as my own personal car that I'm using for my own personal reasons. My car has not transmogrified into anything. it's still the same car, people just want me to look at it in business terms simply because money is involved.
> 
> I don't want to.


Nobody is forcing you to look at it as a business. If you want to drive people around for charity, then please do so. Society would be a far better place if more people were so generous.



> That does not make me an idiot, it makes me a person who is making a personal choice. I may also be an idiot, but that's not the reason I am an idiot.


Well, if you say you are making money doing Uber at these rates, then you are an idiot. If you aren't claiming to make money, then Uber on! And enjoy your charity efforts.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> However you 'use' your vehicle there are costs involved.
> 
> IF your claim is that there is no cost or that personal miles are no cost miles that claim is entirely bogus.
> 
> ...


I agree. As Crownan said, "Using your car for personal reasons obviously entitles you to no deductions because you are not getting paid for it."

Whether or not the IRS deduction of $.57 per mile is too high or too low is AND whether or not that number is a reasonable and accurate reflection of one's ACTUAL depreciation, maintenance, etc. causes me no loss of sleep.

But, I know this......I replace my brakes, change my tires, replace my wiper blades and change my oil (etc.) more frequently than I otherwise would, were it not for the Uber miles that are being added to the odometer. Those are quantifiable expenses that any driver with brain activity needs to subtract from these wonderful NEW low rates (after paying for Uber and gas).


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> I have run my own rental business so have a very good understanding of business accounting.
> 
> I'm not desperate and I have been told I'm not stupid. But I am enjoying driving my car around and making a little money. That's all. For some reason that shakes your worldview so much that you were willing to fight.
> 
> ...


...if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck.....

"quack, quack" ("G-rated" for the Saturday morning cartoon crowd)


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> I have run my own rental business so have a very good understanding of business accounting.
> 
> I'm not desperate and I have been told I'm not stupid. But I am enjoying driving my car around and making a little money. That's all. For some reason that shakes your worldview so much that you were willing to fight.
> 
> ...


"Idiot" (noun)...."an intellectually disabled or intellectually defenseless individual", "a dullard", "utterly foolish". Just sayin'......


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Bob Reynolds said:


> The IRS has a whole staff of accountants that examine *ALL* costs of operating a vehicle. Many of these costs are things that non business people may not take into consideration. Even if they are not considered, the costs are still there. The IRS calculates the cost per mile on an annual basis and they do change the number every year.
> 
> This year, the IRS has determined that .57 cents a mile is the number they will allow individuals and companies, to deduct as a business expense when using their vehicle for business. If you are using your private vehicle for business then the business miles you use the vehicle for are deducted at .57 cants a mile. The miles that you drive for pleasure are not deductible.
> 
> ...


So are you saying that regardless if you are driving a transport truck or a Prius you have the same cost at 57 cents per mile? This is a tax break number, not actual costs.

Everyone will have a different cost depending on vehicle and their situation. Using an average to make a point and then telling everyone they are stupid like most do around here is wrong. Everyone here has their own calculations they should be dealing with. An not everyone looks at Uber as a business venture to get rich. For some it's to break even on car expenses. Some it's to make a little extra cash on the side and others it's because they enjoy doing it.

As the OP said show the proof your true cost is 57 cents a mile and you will gain back some credibility. It's an easy thing to do.

Just tell us

1)What car you drive and the year
2)Car payments per month/Insurance per month
3)What you spent on Gas
4)What you spent on maintenance and other expenses
5) The KM you spent total on the car. (I don't care if it's for Uber or not)

Am I missing anything?

Hell I will work those figures for anyone who wants to provide the information. But it's not that hard.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

So this goes out to all the people who like to come on here and bash a poster with their derogatory comments. You all seem to be so good at math, and everyone likes to talk the big game. Well here is your chance to prove your true costs match the IRS numbers. It's not about are you making money on Uber, or the rate cuts.

Drop your pants, show your figures, prove to the community your IRS numbers match what you actually cost on your expenses and lets either put a nail in those who are calling BS or lets all come to grips with what the figures are.

I think this could be a good exercise for everyone. Hell I don't even know my true numbers but I plan on working them out this weekend for my own ideas on what I'm doing. That's right I have no clue on my real numbers. But I'm going to find out since I need to do my taxes soon.

This is not supposed to be an attack on anyone, but what people are saying someone thinks there is a hole in the logic, so lets actually make an answer instead of just attacking someone.

There is the challenge thrown down....do with it what you will.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

The IRS $0.575 is like what it does elsewhere in the tax code.

For example, an income tax filer can choose to itemize their deductions, or just take the standard deduction the IRS allows:

Standard deduction for single taxpayers - $6,200
Standard deduction for married taxpayers filing a joint return - $12,400
Standard deduction for head of household taxpayers - $9,100
This does not mean that everyone that selects the standard deduction for single taxpayers actually would have $6,200 if they itemized, or everyone that selects the standard deduction for married taxpayers filing a joint return would have $12,400 if they itemized. In fact pretty much everyone who chooses the standard deduction does so because if they itemized their deduction would be less. But the IRS allows the standard deduction, despite it being more for those who use it, to make filing easy for a good chunk of the population. If a taxpayer would have more than the standard deduction by itemizing, most accounts would advise them to itemize as opposed to taking the standard deduction.

The IRS mileage deduction works exactly the same. Pretty much everyone who chooses to use it instead of itemizing their mileage expenses does so because itemizing their expenses would produce a lesser deduction. The IRS allows them to just use $0.575 to make it easier for a good chunk of the population. Those who choose to itemize the mileage expenses do so because it produces a higher deduction than using the $0.575 rate.

As many have said here, everyone's costs are going to be different, and most people doing UberX are below what the IRS allows.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> 2)Car payments per month


This is not included in the IRS calculation and only the interest portion of the car payment can be added to expenses.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> I have run my own rental business so have a very good understanding of business accounting.
> 
> I'm not desperate and I have been told I'm not stupid. But I am enjoying driving my car around and making a little money. That's all. For some reason that shakes your worldview so much that you were willing to fight.
> 
> ...


Perhaps thinking of your automotive expenses (personal or otherwise) in such an irresponsible manner explains why your "rental business" is apparently so slow that you have time to go Ubering simply as a lark.

But, you correctly opine that you should not be "forced" into thinking of "all this in business terms". I agree. You are free to think how you wish. However, you initiated this thread and some of your comments make it difficult for others to take your post seriously (if, indeed, you actually are being serious).


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Uberdawg said:


> This is not included in the IRS calculation and only the interest portion of the car payment can be added to expenses.


Didn't know that, but I think if you add the car payment that's the true cost per mile. Even in my calculations with car payment it was still lower than the IRS amount.


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## Route9 (Oct 29, 2014)

"Fixed ownership costs factored into the results include insurance, license and registration fees, taxes, depreciation and finance charges." according to AAA

This cost also includes one year of depreciation due to aging of the car over 12 months. It also includes cost of your car loan over a year.
this is not a cost per mile average. But a cost per mile per year. If you did 15000 in a month the cost would be less because aging, car loans registration fees etc would be removed from the cost.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Didn't know that, but I think if you add the car payment that's the true cost per mile. Even in my calculations with car payment it was still lower than the IRS amount.


But if you add the car payment *and* take depreciation, that is a double dip. You are writing off the cost of the car and depreciating the cost of the car at the same time.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Uberdawg said:


> But if you add the car payment *and* take depreciation, that is a double dip. You are writing off the cost of the car and depreciating the cost of the car at the same time.


Yep. As the old cliche says, that's having your cake and eating it too.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Uberdawg said:


> But if you add the car payment *and* take depreciation, that is a double dip. You are writing off the cost of the car and depreciating the cost of the car at the same time.


Hmmmmmm....so from the logic I was thinking this compare results would not work. Suggestions anyone?

I was looking at the hard costs and getting a figure. Not depreciation costs. Because at the end of 5 years if you sell the car you most likely get something back and you add that to the income side of things or reduce the cost to get into your next car that makes your cost per mile lower. (Unless you junk the car because you drove it into the ground)


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Hmmmmmm....so from the logic I was thinking this compare results would not work. Suggestions anyone?
> 
> I was looking at the hard costs and getting a figure. Not depreciation costs. Because at the end of 5 years if you sell the car you most likely get something back and you add that to the income side of things or reduce the cost to get into your next car that makes your cost per mile lower. (Unless you junk the car because you drove it into the ground)


I gave you the math in another post a few days ago. I'm not going to type it all up again.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> I gave you the math in another post a few days ago. I'm not going to type it all up again.


You did. But you also used the IRS calculation and not break down how you are getting that as your figure of actual costs. That from what I remember was a different conversation.

This is about show you spend that $0.57 per mile when you drive. Did you provide that breakdown? If you did then sorry I will go look back at it.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> You did. But you also used the IRS calculation and not break down how you are getting that as your figure of actual costs.


BULLSHIT!!!!



> That from what I remember was a different conversation.
> 
> This is about show you spend that $0.57 per mile when you drive. Did you provide that breakdown? If you did then sorry I will go look back at it.


Here is the post. There is absolutely NOTHING in the math regarding the IRS, nor their $0.575 allowance.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber...he-winter-guarantees.11272/page-6#post-152091

Here is the info from the post about calculating your car costs.



> Now, just do the same thing with your car. If your car cost you $30,000 in price, taxes and financing, and you believe it will give you 200,000 miles before it's worthless, then your cost per mile for your car is $30,000 / 200,000 = $0.15 per mile. So 100 Uber miles costs you $15 in car costs. Again, this is REGARDLESS of how much you drive your car for personal use.
> 
> Now car costs can be a little tricky if you buy a car, but plan to sell it before it becomes worthless, or you buy a used car... but the math is still the same. It just uses different numbers. If your car cost you $30,000 in price, taxes and financing, and you plan to sell it for $10,000 when it has 100,000 miles, then your car costs are $20,000 / 100,000 = $0.20 per mile. If you buy a used car for $10,000 after taxes and financing with 100,000 miles and you believe it will go to 200,000 miles before it's worthless, then your cost per mile for your car is $10,000 / 100,000 = $0.10 per mile. So 100 Uber miles cost you $20 or $10 respectively. And again, this is REGARDLESS of how much you drive your car for personal use.


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## Worcester Sauce (Aug 20, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Didn't know that, but I think if you add the car payment that's the true cost per mile. Even in my calculations with car payment it was still lower than the IRS amount.


I believe that lease payments ARE, however, deductible.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> You are all missing my point. If my car is Just a private car and was only used for pleasure nobody would have any beef about how much time I spend in my car ot what I did with it.
> 
> I choose to drive around for entertainment and make a little bit of money with my private car
> 
> ...


Proof? What are you looking for, somebody to post all their personal recipts for just to satisfy some ignorant blowhard on an anonymous message board? All the proof I need is the IRS standard deduction. Do you think they pulled this number out of their ass? Do you think the Government just loves to give free money away? Of course not, this number has been carefully refined over the years to show the average cost of operating a vehicle. And if you are operating this vehicle in the course of conducting a business, then you are entitled to not pay taxes on this cost.

There are a lot of hidden costs that people like you don't see. And driving for Uber certainly can rack up many more miles than what "antiquing" in San Fransisco for the day can rack up. I used to have to change my oil and other services on my car twice a year, now it is 5 or 6 times a year. If you had a 4 year/40,000 warranty on your car, that warranty is going to expire within a year if you drive full time for Uber. Try selling your vehicle at 150,000 miles instead of 60,000 miles because you have been driving it for Uber. Think your going to get the same amount?

That's just a small amount of hidden costs that this 50 cents per mile goes to. And no, I am not going post my personal receipts for you. However, please feel free to post your records to show us that there is zero cost to operating your vehicle while driving cheap asses around for less than a dollar per mile.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Worcester Sauce said:


> I believe that lease payments ARE, however, deductible.


They are. But then you do not get depreciation because you do not own the car. Kind of a net/net deal because the two numbers should be pretty close.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> So this goes out to all the people who like to come on here and bash a poster with their derogatory comments. You all seem to be so good at math, and everyone likes to talk the big game. Well here is your chance to prove your true costs match the IRS numbers. It's not about are you making money on Uber, or the rate cuts.
> 
> Drop your pants, show your figures, prove to the community your IRS numbers match what you actually cost on your expenses and lets either put a nail in those who are calling BS or lets all come to grips with what the figures are.


The general point is that there are REAL costs to run, period. Whether an individuals cost is 20 cents or 57 cents per mile it's still a real cost per mile to drive.

I am comfortable with the IRS number as being accurate, at 57 cents per mile. I also doubt that drivers in general can get that number below 20 cents a mile no matter what they do or how they do it. So there is the general range. Every driver is going to have a cost. That cost may range from 20 cents a mile to 57 cents a mile and in some cases, higher than 57 a mile. For luxury vehicles it may not be unusual to exceed the IRS std. deduction and in those cases a higher actual figure can be used for tax purposes.

Factually speaking there is not one dime of profit for tax purposes unless the rate is above $1.40 a mile.

*The math don't lie.*

Anyone who Uber's at 80 cents a mile and running a 50/50 paid to unpaid miles ratio is getting 32 cents a mile after Uber's cut and before ANY costs are applied.

They may be making 10 cents a mile if they have their costs cut to the bare bones and are still making ZERO for tax purposes.

WTF Kentucky?!


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> BULLSHIT!!!!
> 
> Here is the post. There is absolutely NOTHING in the math regarding the IRS, nor their $0.575 allowance.
> 
> ...


Well I stand corrected and truly apologize for that. I had you confused with someone else on the board.

Thanks for providing a calculation to work with. Now some things are generalized here and if you were to apply it to an individual person the numbers will change.

25MPG is not for everyone and someone on a Prius is sitting at 50MPG. (My 2010 Mazda 3 gets 25mpg with it's 2.5l engine and it's not fuel efficient)
The 2016 volt I'm gong to be getting this summer is 98MPG so fuel is not an issue.

I guess what I'm trying to say is Tires are not every year, nor are brakes and massive engine work.

I'm just saying the calculation is great in theory, but when you put it to actual cost, what you get? I can almost say with confidence it's not the IRS number that gets thrown around here. And in some markets you can make a bit of money if you are smart at it.

So lets see what everyone can post some numbers here. Would be great to see some real figures. (I'm happy to [post mine when I get all my papers together this weekend).

Could help others with seeing the true costs and variances based on car types and how profitable or unprofitable in a market. And shut up some reporters who claim some of the lofty numbers.

If someone does not want to do it, that's fine too. But don't go spouting off complaining, It's not constructive.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Mark me for a 'real' 57 cents a mile.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Well I stand corrected and truly apologize for that. I had you confused with someone else on the board.
> 
> Thanks for providing a calculation to work with. Now some things are generalized here and if you were to apply it to an individual person the numbers will change.
> 
> ...


Yes, everyone's cost are going to be different based on their variables. And pretty much every UberX driver is going to be below the IRS standard mileage deduction, unless they are driving something ridiculously expensive to do UberX with. I just wish people would actually do the math. It would be a HUGE blow to Uber if every Uber driver did the math on their situation and actually knew just how little of the fares they are producing increases their wealth. Drivers see a decent amount of cash coming from Uber, but a lot of it is just liquidating the asset value of their car. This is why my signature in this forum is what it is.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> The general point is that there are REAL costs to run, period. Whether an individuals cost is 20 cents or 57 cents per mile it's still a real cost per mile to drive.
> 
> I am comfortable with the IRS number as being accurate, at 57 cents per mile. I also doubt that drivers in general can get that number below 20 cents a mile no matter what they do or how they do it. So there is the general range. Every driver is going to have a cost. That cost may range from 20 cents a mile to 57 cents a mile and in some cases, higher than 57 a mile. For luxury vehicles it may not be unusual to exceed the IRS std. deduction and in those cases a higher actual figure can be used for tax purposes.
> 
> ...


You can be comfortable with the IRS numbers. But that does not mean it's the true cost. That's what you have chosen to be the basis on how you make money. Your choice, but I think the point of this thread was to not assume that's the true cost number. And if that's what you say you are actually hitting then the gauntlet was thrown down to prove it.

No one is forcing anyone to do this. But going into generalizations don't hold up to water. That's as bad as Uber saying you will make $75000 a year. Another generalization we don't just go out and believe. Lets's see the real life case studies. I think it would be cool to see few drivers do the math. And then compare.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Yes, everyone's cost are going to be different based on their variables. And pretty much every UberX driver is going to be below the IRS standard mileage deduction, unless they are driving something ridiculously expensive to do UberX with. I just wish people would actually do the math. It would be a HUGE blow to Uber if every Uber driver did the math on their situation and actually knew just how little of the fares they are producing increases their wealth. Drivers see a decent amount of cash coming from Uber, but a lot of it is just liquidating the asset value of their car. This is why my signature in this forum is what it is.


Couldn't agree more...I'm not saying this is about making a living on Uber or not. I don't think anyone can. Even in my market. It's not a living wage. I did a week full time to see if it could be done. It was depressing and pathetic what doing Uber 9-5 m-f and working the weekends to try and push for a bigger payout.

And I would have considered that week not to bad.

But this is more about getting some hard costs based on some different models of cars. Something we can be proud of sharing with the community. Not just hiding behind the IRS numbers as the easy out.

Mine will be up before the end of the weekend. I invite others to share.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Couldn't agree more...I'm not saying this is about making a living on Uber or not. I don't think anyone can. Even in my market. It's not a living wage. I did a week full time to see if it could be done. It was depressing and pathetic what doing Uber 9-5 m-f and working the weekends to try and push for a bigger payout.
> 
> And I would have considered that week not to bad.
> 
> ...


Mine is $0.32/mile.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Mine is $0.32/mile.


Awesome...thanks for the share.

Just curious....what do you drive?


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

Sorry, but no prius is getting 50 miles to the gallon driving in the city doing uber. Even gas efficient vehicles take a nose dive on milage driving for uber.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

.42 per mile Chevy Suburban


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

MKEUber said:


> Sorry, but no prius is getting 50 miles to the gallon driving in the city doing uber. Even gas efficient vehicles take a nose dive on milage driving for uber.


Well that's what the EPA rates it as. Guess that's as accurate as your IRS mileage then. What's your point? Post what the true mileage is then? I don't own a Prius so I don't know.

Why don't you add something to the conversation than trying to deflate it.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Uberdawg said:


> .42 per mile Chevy Suburban


Not bad...those are pretty pricy to run as well.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Awesome...thanks for the share.
> 
> Just curious....what do you drive?


'13 Acura TL


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> '13 Acura TL


Nice ride....again thanks for the share and the patience.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

MKEUber said:


> Proof? What are you looking for, somebody to post all their personal recipts for just to satisfy some ignorant blowhard on an anonymous message board?


Why, yes, actually. I have been on this forum for a little while and it seems to be the standard etiquette on many posts.

I have been driving for one month. I have an additional thousand dollars in the bank. Aside from gas, I have incurred zero additional costs.

My time has no market value because I do not have any "opportunity costs" associated with my time. I can spend my time at my leisure

I am a dilettante driver. I think the best way to satisfy peoples' worldview is to say that I am a Hobbyist.

Now back to my point.

IRS deduction aside, what have your actual costs been, aside from gas, specifically attributed to driving for Uber?

No takers? Just ranters?

In a couple of weeks I have volunteered to beta test an app that will help me Capture all my Uber attributable miles.

Thank You all for sharing.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> You can be comfortable with the IRS numbers. But that does not mean it's the true cost.


For me that is true cost.



> That's what you have chosen to be the basis on how you make money. Your choice, but I think the point of this thread was to not assume that's the true cost number. And if that's what you say you are actually hitting then the gauntlet was thrown down to prove it.


For me that is true cost. I have an XL high end vehicle, commercial insurance and dual high cost phones.

Run the numbers however you think. I'm saying that the IRS figure for what I do is pretty much spot on for real hard costs.

For IRS purposes I think I'll be able to take the commercial insurance and phone costs as additional deductible costs. Haven't talked to my CPA yet. So just pulling those 2 costs out of the 57 cents would still put my hard cost run rate at approx. 45-46 cents a mile.



> No one is forcing anyone to do this. But going into generalizations don't hold up to water. That's as bad as Uber saying you will make $75000 a year. Another generalization we don't just go out and believe. Lets's see the real life case studies. I think it would be cool to see few drivers do the math. And then compare.


You mean a 'how low can you go' thing? I doubt anyone here is running under a legit 20 cents counting damn near nothing but gas, a minimal replacement value and reasonable maintenance.

*Nit picking at the variance between a hard cost 20 cents or a hard cost 45 cents ain't gonna make or break any conversation anyway.* So somebody makes a quarter a mile more driving low cost X or XL drivers get it stuffed up their asses on low cost X?

There is not a 'profit' for tax purposes for either party once the paid mile rate drops below $1.40 and a driver does a 50/50 paid to unpaid ratio.

So the low cost X driver who drives 70,000 miles a year makes his net 12 cents a mile? For a grand fine $8400 tax free profit? And maybe another same for the time quotient for 16-17 grand a year?

*Big ****ing deal.*

They're still well below the poverty line. And they'll pay hell for time on the clock trying to drive 35,000 paid miles to do it.

McDonalds at minimum wage for far less time worked is much better pay.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Why, yes, actually. I have been on this forum for a little while and it seems to be the standard etiquette on many posts.
> 
> I have been driving for one month. I have an additional thousand dollars in the bank. Aside from gas, I have incurred zero additional costs.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you pay only gas. What a snoozer.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Why, yes, actually. I have been on this forum for a little while and it seems to be the standard etiquette on many posts.
> 
> I have been driving for one month. I have an additional thousand dollars in the bank. Aside from gas, I have incurred zero additional costs.
> 
> ...


Lol, another "hobbyist"

We'll that explains a lot. I have another term for people who do this as a "hobby" and it's "having no social life"

Sadly, there are people in this world who would drive people around practially for free to substitute for a lack of a real social life.

Btw, this explains away real nicely why you think gas is the only cost in your vast and insurmountable experience of your one whole month of driving.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Why, yes, actually. I have been on this forum for a little while and it seems to be the standard etiquette on many posts.
> 
> I have been driving for one month. I have an additional thousand dollars in the bank. Aside from gas, I have incurred zero additional costs.
> 
> ...


I think the conversation would probably go better if we get some honest figures of costs from people first. I would expect people to be honest or they will just get called out. You can't tell me your Civic is costing more than a Suburban. If it is, why. I would assume there have been some hefty bills to keep the car going. Then you need to ask, is it because of Uber Driving that caused that? But hey that's for another conversation. I think it's going to be like pulling teeth to just get a baseline to work with.

And hey I will answer that. I was forced to spend $800 for winter tires as I would never have bought them if not driving for Uber. They are barely worth it in the city for the 4 snowfalls we get where they help. And yes it was a requirement or deactivation.

I do twice as many oil changes as before. So add another $50

Gas I went from 1 fill up a week to 2 or more depending on how much more I drive for Uber.

I had a small hit in a parking garage. Would have held off fixing it, but working for Uber I needed to fix it as per their rules. $1300.

So yes there is an increased cost to do Uber. I didn't even get to the car washes and interior cleans have been frequent as you don't want to start a shift with a dirty car. Most times I would wash the salt off and clean the interior every 2 weeks or play by the weather. Now I clean it based on work schedule. That can be 3 times more than average.

So if you habits have not changed driving for Uber than how you drive personal you have no added expenses. But I don't know anyone who can say that with straight face and be honest.

Now am I paying those cots working for Uber.....definitely. But not at a profit model I would recommend for a full timer.


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## MKEUber (Aug 20, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Well that's what the EPA rates it as. Guess that's as accurate as your IRS mileage then. What's your point? Post what the true mileage is then? I don't own a Prius so I don't know.
> 
> Why don't you add something to the conversation than trying to deflate it.


But I did add something to the conversation, I corrected you on your mistaken assumption that city driving equates uber driving. Uber driving is city driving on steroids. As other prius drivers have stated, they get nowhere near the epa stated city milage.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Nice ride....again thanks for the share and the patience.


Here is how $0.32/mile costs works in the Columbus market.

Columbus is at $1.00/mile, $0.17/min, and $0.50 base. So, lets assume that Uber's low rates keeps me driving all the time, and I never sit waiting for a ping ever. And let's assume I can average 40 MPH while having a fare. By my records, I've been averaging just over 30 MPH while on a fare, but let's give Uber some credit for making things so efficient that I can move people at 40 MPH. With Uber still sending me pings 18 minutes away, and deactivating drivers for acceptance rates under 80%, the best paid to empty mile ratio I'm going to get is around 50/50. It could be a lot more efficient if Uber wouldn't send us those donkey dick requests so far away, but Uber does, so 50/50 is the best I can hope for without toeing the line of getting deactivated.

Given the above, 20 paid miles per hour ($20.00), with 30 paid minutes per hour ($5.10), with an average of 2 trips per hour ($3.00, note two $0.50 base fares and two $1 safe ride fees), produces $28.10 per hour in fares. Uber's cut is $7.22 ($2 safe rider fees and $5.22 for their 20%), making what Uber pays me $20.88. WOO HOO! Look at all that cash, AMIRIGHT!!!

Not so fast....My costs at 40 MPH (20 paid miles and 20 empty miles) is $12.80. So my profit for doing that $28.10 in fares and getting that $20.88 paycheck is only $8.08.

But in reality, I don't get fares back to back. I wait for them. There are so many frickin drivers out there that 1 per hour isn't easy to get (which actually makes gaming the guarantee pretty easy, but that's an entirely different topic and the only way to really make any money with Uber anymore). I also can't move people at 40 MPH. I average around 30. So what I'm saying is the Uber system and the Uber driver have to BOTH be incredibly efficient just for the Uber driver to net minimum wage after their costs in Columbus.

And most markets are well below Columbus rates.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> IRS deduction aside, what have your actual costs been, aside from gas, specifically attributed to driving for Uber?


I think a lot of people have answered your question. Maybe not the answer you wanted. Every mile I drive for Uber costs me .42. Gas, depreciation, tires, car repairs, cleaning etc... Just because you choose to believe that none of that makes a difference, doesn't mean I have to. If you choose for gas to be your only Uber attributable expense, I have to ask, "What color is the sky in your world"?


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> I think the conversation would probably go better if we get some honest figures of costs from people first. I would expect people to be honest or they will just get called out. You can't tell me your Civic is costing more than a Suburban. If it is, why. I would assume there have been some hefty bills to keep the car going. Then you need to ask, is it because of Uber Driving that caused that? But hey that's for another conversation. I think it's going to be like pulling teeth to just get a baseline to work with.
> 
> And hey I will answer that. I was forced to spend $800 for winter tires as I would never have bought them if not driving for Uber. They are barely worth it in the city for the 4 snowfalls we get where they help. And yes it was a requirement or deactivation.
> 
> ...


Yeah, and that's kinda the point ain't it? It's not a 'gas only' real cost. The gas only guys are not honest with themselves. They sure as hell ain't fooling anyone but themselves either.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Here is how $0.32/mile costs works in the Columbus market.
> 
> Columbus is at $1.00/mile, $0.17/min, and $0.50 base. So, lets assume that Uber's low rates keeps me driving all the time, and I never sit waiting for a ping ever. And let's assume I can average 40 MPH while having a fare. By my records, I've been averaging just over 30 MPH while on a fare, but let's give Uber some credit for making things so efficient that I can move people at 40 MPH. With Uber still sending me pings 18 minutes away, and deactivating drivers for acceptance rates under 80%, the best paid to empty mile ratio I'm going to get is around 50/50. It could be a lot more efficient if Uber wouldn't send us those donkey dick requests so far away, but Uber does, so 50/50 is the best I can hope for without toeing the line of getting deactivated.
> 
> ...


Would you say that take home is Tax free after taking all the deductions on your taxes? Or are you still finding yourself paying tax on that.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Yeah, and that's kinda the point ain't it? It's not a 'gas only' real cost. The gas only guys are not honest with themselves. They sure as hell ain't fooling anyone but themselves either.


Agree

I'm all for not going crazy on the cost side of things like some do. But there is other costs....And you are paying more of them when you do Uber. Again unless you had those costs in the first place.

I know a real Estate Agent who does Uber between their calls. They drive people around scoping out neighborhoods and make a bit more cash on the side. They would have had the same miles and costs as they would have had. But now they supplement the same costs with a bit more income. The real estate side of things absorb the cost as there is a higher tax advantage to them.

But we aren't all doing that.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Would you say that take home is Tax free after taking all the deductions on your taxes? Or are you still finding yourself paying tax on that.


The IRS wants federal income tax on that $20.88 unless I can show deduction. The 40 miles I did to produce that $20.88 allows me to deduct $23.00, so no, I don't pay any federal income taxes on it. But social security is NOT income tax, so I still have to pay 17.6% on it just for SS, as well as state and local taxes. The federal income tax deduction only lowers the federal income tax burden. It doesn't reduce the other taxes due.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> The IRS wants federal income tax on that $20.88 unless I can show deduction. The 40 miles I did to produce that $20.88 allows me to deduct $23.00, so no, I don't pay any federal income taxes on it. But social security is NOT income tax, so I still have to pay 17.6% on it just for SS, as well as state and local taxes. The federal income tax deduction only lowers the federal income tax burden. It doesn't reduce the other taxes due.


No, you won't be paying SS unless you turn a profit. Which theoretically, at your rates, you won't. SS is not paid on gross pay.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> No, you won't be paying SS unless you turn a profit. Which theoretically, at your rates, you won't. SS is not paid on gross pay.


Well, not paying SS tax is being penny smart and dollar stupid. What SS pays you when you qualify to start collecting on it is determined by what you contributed to it over the years. Nothing in produces nothing out.

My God!!! I just had a thought. What if 160,000 Uber drivers results in 160,000 seniors living in this country decades from now who's social security payouts are paltry because they didn't contribute due to their Uber driving. Uber's negative impact on society is bigger than I thought!


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Well, not paying SS tax is being penny smart and dollar stupid. What SS pays you when you qualify to start collecting on it is determined by what you contributed to it over the years. Nothing in produces nothing out.
> 
> My God!!! I just had a thought. What if 160,000 Uber drivers results in 160,000 seniors living in this country decades from now who's social security payouts are paltry because they didn't contribute due to their Uber driving. Uber's negative impact on society is bigger than I thought!


I don't think they allow voluntary contributions in any case i.e. you can't buy a retirement program from them.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I don't think they allow voluntary contributions in any case i.e. you can't buy a retirement program from them.


If an Uber driver has kids, they'd be better off declaring their Uber checks as income, and not writing it all off as not taxable. This is because the earned income credit essentially gives them $4000 at certain levels of income declared. So if they got $18,000 from Uber and declared it as taxable income, the IRS would send them a check for $4000 in earned income credit, and net $22,000 ($18K from Uber and $4K from the IRS). As they earn more than $18K the earned income credit begins to shrink until it's $0 around $32,000 of taxable income.

That being said, I believe full time Uber drivers driving at these ridiculously low rates would be better off NOT writing off all their income with the mileage deduction. They could net thousands more by hiring an accountant who would file the amount of income that would net them the most after filing.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Who says Social Security is going to be there in a few years anyway. Take what you would have paid them and invest it. You'll come out way ahead.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> If an Uber driver has kids, they'd be better off declaring their Uber checks as income, and not writing it all off as not taxable. This is because the earned income credit essentially gives them $4000 at certain levels of income declared. So if they got $18,000 from Uber and declared it as taxable income, the IRS would send them a check for $4000 in earned income credit, and net $22,000 ($18K from Uber and $4K from the IRS). As they earn more than $18K the earned income credit begins to shrink until it's $0 around $32,000 of taxable income.
> 
> That being said, I believe full time Uber drivers driving at these ridiculously low rates would be better off NOT writing off all their income with the mileage deduction. They could net thousands more by hiring an accountant who would file the amount of income that would net them the most after filing.


This.

Hire an accountant. A good one will know the best way to achieve the lowest tax.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

Uberdawg said:


> Who says Social Security is going to be there in a few years anyway. Take what you would have paid them and invest it. You'll come out way ahead.


Good point. It is a pyramid scheme. A legal one, but a pyramid scheme none the less.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> If an Uber driver has kids, they'd be better off declaring their Uber checks as income, and not writing it all off as not taxable. This is because the earned income credit essentially gives them $4000 at certain levels of income declared. So if they got $18,000 from Uber and declared it as taxable income, the IRS would send them a check for $4000 in earned income credit, and net $22,000 ($18K from Uber and $4K from the IRS). As they earn more than $18K the earned income credit begins to shrink until it's $0 around $32,000 of taxable income.
> 
> That being said, I believe full time Uber drivers driving at these ridiculously low rates would be better off NOT writing off all their income with the mileage deduction. They could net thousands more by hiring an accountant who would file the amount of income that would net them the most after filing.


Could have some points there. Maybe enough credits to pay their SS and self employment taxes? 

I think if their real costs are run and they have low income they qualify for the credits regardless and won't have to pay either SS or self employment tax.


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## UberHammer (Dec 5, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> Could have some points there. Maybe enough credits to pay their SS and self employment taxes?
> 
> I think if their real costs are run and they have low income they qualify for the credits regardless and won't have to pay either SS or self employment tax.


There are a lot of different credits. But the EIC is tied to producing income. If you have $0 in taxable income, the EIC is $0. I believe it's around $6,000 in income where the EIC starts and begins to grow up to as much as $4,000 at $18K of income, and then shrinks back down to $0 at around $32K of income.

The EIC is really the only reason why poor people even bother with filing taxes. It's another source of income for them.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> There are a lot of different credits. But the EIC is tied to producing income. If you have $0 in taxable income, the EIC is $0. I believe it's around $6,000 in income where the EIC starts and begins to grow up to as much as $4,000 at $18K of income, and then shrinks back down to $0 at around $32K of income.
> 
> The EIC is really the only reason why poor people even bother with filing taxes. It's another source of income for them.


Ah. I've never entered that territory so couldn't tell ya. I defer to professionals in all cases of officialdom.


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Wow I leave for a second and everyone is having a great civil conversation...is this the same board? You can call me a Dick if you feel the need.


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## scrurbscrud (Sep 11, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> Wow I leave for a second and everyone is having a great civil conversation...is this the same board? You can call me a Dick if you feel the need.


I think there was an honest consensus that there are costs. Whodathunk?


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

UberHammer said:


> Good point. It is a pyramid scheme. A legal one, but a pyramid scheme none the less.


And Bernie is in jail for running the same exact scheme.


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

scrurbscrud said:


> I think there was an honest consensus that there are costs. Whodathunk?


We can't kill em, so our only option is to attempt to educate them. If we killed em, we would have to kill all the other idiots just to make it fair.


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## gman (Jul 28, 2014)

Actionjax said:


> So this goes out to all the people who like to come on here and bash a poster with their derogatory comments. You all seem to be so good at math, and everyone likes to talk the big game. Well here is your chance to prove your true costs match the IRS numbers. It's not about are you making money on Uber, or the rate cuts.
> 
> Drop your pants, show your figures, prove to the community your IRS numbers match what you actually cost on your expenses and lets either put a nail in those who are calling BS or lets all come to grips with what the figures are.
> 
> ...


A reputable organization (AAA) has already shown the figures and done the math. The link is in the second post of this thread, and these were the results for the "small sedan" category as I already posted earlier.

10,000 miles/yr 59.5c/mile
15,000 miles/yr 46.4c/mile
20,000 miles/yr 39.8c/mile

These figures include ownership costs, which is a fixed cost we are all paying regardless if we uber 0 miles or 50,000, so in my mind those need to be deducted. So drop the above numbers by 10c/mile and there you go.

My car is a 2014 Toyota Corolla, extremely reliable and combined 32 mpg, so I've got my cost per mile at about 25c/mile. That number is verified above, as I drive 25,000/yr on uber, so if you extrapolate that figure above you get around 35c/mile minus the 10c/mile ownership to yield 25c/mile.

YMMV


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## pengduck (Sep 26, 2014)

Bob Reynolds said:


> I would suggest that if you don't like what the IRS has decided that you contact them and voice your concern. Otherwise that is the law until it is changed by Congress or the IRS.


The IRS can not change the law only Congress can! Civics 101.


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## elelegido (Sep 24, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> So how come everybody is getting all business on me and quoting a whole bunch of numbers.


Because the IRS requires it, every April 15 if you generate earnings/profit above the federal minimum.

If Ubering is a hobby and you choose not to calculate your expenses due to providing the service, that's fine. You do have to state your revenue to the IRS; no choice there. But if you don't want to state your expenses on your tax return, because to you they are no different from you driving to a food stand, or any other reason, that's ok. Don't use the $0.56/ mile rate, just use the actual expenses method, state zero expenses on the form and keep/provide no receipts.

The IRS won't care if you don't use any permitted deductions (overpaying taxes is never an offense) and you'll be happy. I don't see what the issue is.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

So I should rack up the miles, instead of just "investing "5000 or so in driving for Uber and stopping there, because my cost is $.40 per mile instead of $.60

I'll take the $.40 per mile number and run with it. 

I'm also thinking that my true depreciation has to be tied to the kelly bluebook prices. I may put a lot of miles on my car, but I already have the service contract and extended six-year warranty to maintain it. So it will stay in very good condition. I'll wait until the app I'm beta testing shows how many actual miles per week I'm doing for Uber


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## Bart McCoy (Nov 4, 2014)

great post
because the first thing someone says if say a person is in a 65/cent mile market, is that you're only making 8 cents a mile, because of the IRS deduction(57 cents)
but if their true cost is less than the IRS deduction, clearly they are making more than 8 cents a mile right?


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> I'm also thinking that my true depreciation has to be tied to the kelly bluebook prices. I may put a lot of miles on my car, but I already have the service contract and extended six-year warranty to maintain it. So it will stay in very good condition.


That is depreciation in a nutshell. If you take better care of your car it will be worth more when you dispose of it. There is a wide range between Fair and Excellent in pricing used vehicles.



Bart McCoy said:


> because the first thing someone says if say a person is in a 65/cent mile market, is that you're only making 8 cents a mile, because of the IRS deduction(57 cents)
> but if their true cost is less than the IRS deduction, clearly they are making more than 8 cents a mile right?


Well, yes and no. Don't forget in a .75 mile market your costs must be less than .37 to make money because of dead miles, which in my experience is around 2 to 1.


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## NightRider (Jul 23, 2014)

Sacto Burbs said:


> So I should rack up the miles, instead of just "investing "5000 or so in driving for Uber and stopping there, because my cost is $.40 per mile instead of $.60
> 
> I'll take the $.40 per mile number and run with it.
> 
> I'm also thinking that my true depreciation has to be tied to the kelly bluebook prices. I may put a lot of miles on my car, but I already have the service contract and extended six-year warranty to maintain it. So it will stay in very good condition. I'll wait until the app I'm beta testing shows how many actual miles per week I'm doing for Uber


I would suggest you dig up the paperwork for that extended warranty and service contract and take the time to read it. I'm pretty certain you will find that it is clearly spelled out in those contracts that ANY use of the vehicle at any point for hire or commercial use invalidates the agreement. My Honda contracts state this quite clearly, and I doubt they are unique from the other manufacturers. Do yourself a favor and read those documents. Of course, if you don't want to be inconvenienced with the truth that's fine too.


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## gman (Jul 28, 2014)

NightRider said:


> I would suggest you dig up the paperwork for that extended warranty and service contract and take the time to read it. I'm pretty certain you will find that it is clearly spelled out in those contracts that ANY use of the vehicle at any point for hire or commercial use invalidates the agreement. My Honda contracts state this quite clearly, and I doubt they are unique from the other manufacturers. Do yourself a favor and read those documents. Of course, if you don't want to be inconvenienced with the truth that's fine too.


Hey don't ask don't tell! I am leasing a new car and blew through my free 2yrs/25,000 miles free service in a little under one year. Nobody ever questioned why I was driving so many miles. And yes, I do plan on buying the car at the end of the lease!


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## Uberdawg (Oct 23, 2014)

You will have to. The overage charges would be crazy high.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Better sell my car quick then and buy a used Prius.


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## Eric Lien (Jan 14, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Show me the receipts and I'll delete this thread. Prove that you sold your car - and for x dollars less than you would have if it was not an Uber car.
> 
> Proof please. I contend that with your nice new cars, apart from cleaning because of stinky passengers, they hold up fine and you are NOT out of pocket.
> 
> ...


Never heard of IRS? You think IRS is too generous to allow $0.56 per mile for business driving? Good Lord!


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Eric, show me your reciepts for UberX driving. That is the topic.

Please read all the posts. Some are funny.


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## Raquel (Jan 9, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Show me the receipts and I'll delete this thread. Prove that you sold your car - and for x dollars less than you would have if it was not an Uber car.
> 
> Proof please. I contend that with your nice new cars, apart from cleaning because of stinky passengers, they hold up fine and you are NOT out of pocket.
> 
> ...


It's actually quite simple.. go to kelly blue book and enter in the miles you put on your car doing uber and then enter the figure if you weren't..you'll see the difference.. I tried a test..a 2014 primus with 12k miles and a 2014 prius..with 30k miles..as you see the value tank ..about $1,200.. iE 8% of the sale price more..
this doesn't include the extra maintenance oil changes, insurance..


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## Actionjax (Oct 6, 2014)

Forgot to post my numbers. Based on the calculations on my 2010 Mazda 3 (With a value of it being 4 years old since I did not start doing Uber since 2014). I am running about $0.38 per mile. With the price of gas now dropping I may be about $0.36 per mile.

So at $1.25 per mile up here I think I'm golden for the extra cash.


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