# Just learned about shuffling



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

Is this still a thing? I found it from a 2017 thread. I’ve never driven on a side street to cancel 5 minutes later. I only cancel when it’s legit. Got me thinking though, why not? Cover your day in gas through cancellations and then once you make that amount drive legit the rest of your day.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I did it today.

So, yes, it is a thing.


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## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

I only shuffled those who deserved it, and boy were there plenty of those.


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

Have had 2 instances of doing this on purpose. I never put serous thought into shuffling full time. I might start now. This guy had a post on here with a 2% acceptance rate showing all his cancellations. Might just start this up as a business model. Uber has taught me to pick up on people’s entitlement, attitude, and ****ery. Might just shuffle passengers I sense are shitheads. I’ve eaten 2 ubereats after I went on a missions finding someone’s door. Snowflakes can’t walk outside their complex to meet me.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

I only do it in extreme circumstances.

Today the pickup was at 600 AM at a highway interchange, a cloverleaf to be exact. The guy was nowhere to be found from where I was driving, and frankly, he could have been underneath on several of the lower lanes, who knows. I am not going to phone the idiot or drive around in circles to find him or her.There was no way for me to park there obviously, so I drove 2 blocks away and found a spot where I could hang out until the counter wound down and I got my $4.00 fee.


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

ANT 7 said:


> I only do it in extreme circumstances.
> 
> Today the pickup was at 600 AM at a highway interchange, a cloverleaf to be exact. The guy was nowhere to be found from where I was driving, and frankly, he could have been underneath on several of the lower lanes, who knows. I am not going to phone the idiot or drive around in circles to find him or her.There was no way for me to park there obviously, so I drove a 2 blocks away and found a spot where I could hang out until the counter wound down and I got my $4.00 fee.


Nice lol. What if his Uber's car broke down and was pinging you for a ride lol. I can see myself doing this more now. I waited on a girl who had to go back in her house twice after I already waited 5 minutes. I'm far too nice. There was another time when I was picking up this ***** near a LAX hotel with a designated pickup alley for rideshare drivers. I didn't know about the alley so she called saying"where are you you should've been here by now" with a bad attitude. I let her know I'd get another driver who could get there when she wanted them too. I drove around the block a couple times while she ringed me. Eventually she cancelled and I got my fee.


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

If at first you don't succeed, shuffle shuffle again.

@Another Uber Driver
@New2This


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Is this still a thing? I found it from a 2017 thread. I've never driven on a side street to cancel 5 minutes later. I only cancel when it's legit. Got me thinking though, why not? Cover your day in gas through cancellations and then once you make that amount drive legit the rest of your day.


It's real...










Lyft's awesome because you get the full $5/$7 depending on your market










ExpressPool are the best Shuffles










Don't forget about the long-distance Shuffle










Just don't lecture @ariel5466 about her Shuffling. She'll get angry. You won't like her when she's angry...


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

New2This said:


> It's real...
> 
> View attachment 351069
> 
> ...


Seems like you have mastered it
First pick in the shuffle draft ?
I will be a undrafted free agent ?
Look at the guy in the back laughing


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

mbd said:


> Seems like you have mastered it
> First pick in the shuffle draft ?
> I will be a undrafted free agent ?
> Look at the guy in the back laughing


We invented Shuffling and perfected it. You'll do well


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...21/video-mcdonalds-worker-fights-customer/amp


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## Roadmasta (Aug 4, 2017)

Welcome to team shuffle. When they call and are rude, shuffle. If they call and say I put in the wrong address, shuffle. If they have a low rating and you were regretting taking the ride, shuffle. If you don't see them with a minute left on the clock slow ride away, shuffle.


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## mbd (Aug 27, 2018)

Roadmasta said:


> Welcome to team shuffle. When they call and are rude, shuffle. If they call and say I put in the wrong address, shuffle. If they have a low rating and you were regretting taking the ride, shuffle. If you don't see them with a minute left on the clock slow ride away, shuffle.


Thankfully 99.9% of the pax after 9 am never fall into those category...? few low rated , but they behave like a 5.0 pax in the morning.


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## Roadmasta (Aug 4, 2017)

mbd said:


> Thankfully 99.9% of the pax after 9 am never fall into those category...? few low rated , but they behave like a 5.0 pax in the morning.


I'm only nightshift part time and these are my favorite things, shuffling. In my market 5.0 pax are new or fake rated Lyft customers which I haven't taken in about 6 months. I took a 4.5 customer tonight almost declined but took it because was nearby, nice conversation. No problems but no tip. I gave them a 5er but debated a 4 because they wouldn't see a rating drop.


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

I always 1 Star short trips. This shuffling thing has me dying. I’ve been cracking up for the past 3 hours reading about it. Can’t wait for my first day on team shuffle tomorrow. LA PAX be ready I’m coming for that ROY of the year award.


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## flyntflossy10 (Jun 2, 2017)

I know whos about to enter this conversation...


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

flyntflossy10 said:


> I know whos about to enter this conversation...


who? 3.75 I'm guessing. That guy is my hero.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Is this still a thing? I found it from a 2017 thread. I've never driven on a side street to cancel 5 minutes later. I only cancel when it's legit. Got me thinking though, why not? Cover your day in gas through cancellations and then once you make that amount drive legit the rest of your day.


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> View attachment 351105


I can't wait. I'm planning on doing my normal one a day airport run to LAX then off I go to shuffle shuffle shuffle.


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## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

I do it routinely for pax who take longer than two minutes to get their asses out on the curb, and are going somewhere I don't 'want to go. Prolly amounts to 1 a day. For pax who are on the curb but going somewhere I don't wanna go, I do them the courtesy of canceling the ride ASAP and moving on.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

I use shuffling to make Uber Pro work for me. I want to see the trip info but shuffling is the only way I can maintain my AR/CR without wasting time and losing money on shitty rides. Any ride that Pro quotes me as being 10 minutes or less gets shuffled. Pax rated below 4.8 get shuffled, unless it's going to be a good fare and/or a DF trip. Not out in 2 minutes? Shuffled.



SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> who? 3.75 I'm guessing. That guy is my hero.


@3.75 You have admirers ?


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

ariel5466 said:


> I want to see the trip info but shuffling is the only way I can maintain my AR/CR


I've had a few Uber Pro Gold DC drivers tell me that they're not being shown trip duration.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> I've had a few Uber Pro Gold DC drivers tell me that they're not being shown trip duration.


I see the duration as long as I stay at 85%. I had dipped to 84% and lost the info for a little bit. I don't see direction, though. If I remember right I'm pretty sure I saw the trip info from Gold on up but I'm Diamond now. Maybe they changed the requirements?


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## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

ariel5466 said:


> I use shuffling to make Uber Pro work for me. I want to see the trip info but shuffling is the only way I can maintain my AR/CR without wasting time and losing money on shitty rides. Any ride that Pro quotes me as being 10 minutes or less gets shuffled. Pax rated below 4.8 get shuffled, unless it's going to be a good fare and/or a DF trip. Not out in 2 minutes? Shuffled.
> 
> @3.75 You have admirers ?


This definition of shuffling seems to imply getting the pax to cancel. What if they don't cancel?



New2This said:


> It's real...
> 
> View attachment 351069
> 
> ...


Please tell me where I can sign up to get my butt kicked by @ariel5466


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

I found that telling pax about the practice of shuffling earns a tip.

They are usually shocked that it is going on, but then are thankful that you alerted them to it. Its also a nice way to brooch the subject of pax not being curbside.


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## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

I’m going to say something whiners will hate: if you become UberPro, you can shuffle better. Because you’ll know if shuffling will make you more money than actually taking the pax.

I don’t shuffle anyways, but that’s my input to this thread.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

MadTownUberD said:


> This definition of shuffling seems to imply getting the pax to cancel. What if they don't cancel?


Nope, just get close enough to start the timer and drive around the corner. Or park a quarter mile down the street and take a little walk. Don't answer calls and if they text you just text back "I'm here and I'm looking for you" or something like that.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

I drive to the pin. If they can't find their own @#$& pin, shuffle.
Bad address?
Shuffle.
Darwinism in action.


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## 3.75 (Sep 29, 2017)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Is this still a thing? I found it from a 2017 thread. I've never driven on a side street to cancel 5 minutes later. I only cancel when it's legit. Got me thinking though, why not? Cover your day in gas through cancellations and then once you make that amount drive legit the rest of your day.


Oh yes, it's such a thing that someone made a whole thread dedicated to the act.

https://uberpeople.net/threads/shuffling-is-deplorable.342019/
Obviously the person is against it but this is bigger than you'd think it is. The thing is that very few openly admit to accepting a ride but not having intentions to complete it.

Most justify it... "oh i go to the pin" or "i waited a little bit and then moved"

Theres 2 kinds of shuffles. The passive agressive ones where the rides were originally intended to be given but werent due to unforseen circumstances like attitude problems, excessive calling or texting or uncalled for favors.

Then theres the fully agressive ones where hiding is key, or even better; using a car thats not listed on the account.



MadTownUberD said:


> This definition of shuffling seems to imply getting the pax to cancel. What if they don't cancel?


Not necesarily true. It implies that theyre shuffled like a deck of cards. The original meaning meant that they would go through a couple of drivers before they found a ride. Like when you shuffle cards before passing them out.

Because of rate cuts it has become a means to profit. So it has morphed to mean that the driver is collecting $3.75 as they pass through and look for a more profitable ride.


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Is this still a thing? I found it from a 2017 thread. I've never driven on a side street to cancel 5 minutes later. I only cancel when it's legit. Got me thinking though, why not? Cover your day in gas through cancellations and then once you make that amount drive legit the rest of your day.


Oh my....

You missed a ball of flames if you just learned from a 2017 thread.

Come grasshopper, come look upon the War Of Shuffle.










https://uberpeople.net/threads/shuffling-is-deplorable.342019/
https://uberpeople.net/threads/oh-christy-🤦‍♀️.334763/


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

And what cracks me up now is that what I described in "Oh, Christy" wasn't even a true shuffle! People get so worked up over the stupidest crap...


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

MadTownUberD said:


> This definition of shuffling seems to imply getting the pax to cancel. What if they don't cancel?


Or if they know that both Uber and Lyft don't charge a cancellation fee if the driver's ETA increases by over 5 mins. So if drivers don't move, they just wait till a bit after 5 mins, then cancel with no charge.


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

On the toilet right now playing out all the shuffles I’m gonna do in my head. I know my area very well so I usually know when a trip is gonna be good or bad without uber pro, just knowing the pick up location is usually enough. I’ll shuffle those rides.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Is this still a thing? I found it from a 2017 thread. I've never driven on a side street to cancel 5 minutes later. I only cancel when it's legit. Got me thinking though, why not? Cover your day in gas through cancellations and then once you make that amount drive legit the rest of your day.


The reason NOT is because you might be deactivated. There is bad advice given in the forums to thin out the driver pool. I certainly wouldnt start out shuffling, better to establish a good track record.

Also, there is thinking that completing short money-losing trips is a gateway to being given better trips.

And, of course, there are the Pro benefits. You dont get pro points for shuffled trips. (Although its better than cancelling)

And finally, most people don't deserve to be stiffed with a cancellation fee, unless they do something wrong. What is "wrong" varies by driver.

Do you really make more money shuffling? The only way to know is if you have Pro. Without Pro you have no idea how long the trip is. You could shuffle great airport runs, and there is no chance for tips with shuffle. In my market, keeping the car clean and having good rapport can make those short trips profitable. But that doesn't work in all locales. If you are the kind of car/driver that never gets tipped, maybe shuffling is better for you.

My advice is to start out being a good ant, see how much Pro benefits are worth to you in your city (markets vary), and then come up with your own rules for when its alright to shuffle. If I was driving downtown DC or baltimore, I might be shuffling bad trips left and right. In a market with fewer pings, you pretty much have to take what you can get (for the most part) and putting a bit of effort into getting Pro might be worth it for you.



Dropking said:


> I do it routinely for pax who take longer than two minutes to get their asses out on the curb, and are going somewhere I don't 'want to go. Prolly amounts to 1 a day. For pax who are on the curb but going somewhere I don't wanna go, I do them the courtesy of canceling the ride ASAP and moving on.


Do you start the trip? How do you know where they are going?


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

I’ve been driving 3 years with a low cancellation rate. In the past month I’ve made 215 trips and cancelled 7 times. My cancellation is at 4%. I’m also pretty close to gold, thing is I don’t know how much longer I’ll be doing uber so I don’t know if it’s worth. It shuffling in order to gain gold status . I don’t think some shuffling will get my deactivated right now.


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

I am not a shuffler, but I am a hot canceller, like most Ants in Seattle. Cancel rates in the single digits and ARs below 50 are the norm there. This is due to the trial run Uber did in Seattle in 2017 with the Teen Rider Platform where kids as young as 13 could request an Uber and ride unaccompanied.

Many parents still hang onto the dream that we Seattle Ants will become Soccer Moms for their kids.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

OldBay said:


> The reason NOT is because you might be deactivated.


If that was the case the whole DC sub forum would be deactivated ?



OldBay said:


> Also, there is thinking that completing short money-losing trips is a gateway to being given better trips


Pure speculation. No one knows what really goes into the algorithm.



OldBay said:


> And, of course, there are the Pro benefits. You dont get pro points for shuffled trips. (Although its better than cancelling)


If you even care about Pro. And if you're FT those points are really easy to get, even with plenty of shuffling.



OldBay said:


> And finally, most people don't deserve to be stiffed with a cancellation fee, unless they do something wrong. What is "wrong" varies by driver.


And this is really the biggest source of disagreement among drivers. However, pax can easily get their $5 credited back and the driver still gets to keep the $3.75. The pax may get inconvenienced (boo effing hoo) but the only one who suffers monetarily is Uber. I'm cool with that.



OldBay said:


> Do you really make more money shuffling?


"The most profitable ride is the one not given" 
-Pope @3.75

You're just thinking about gross pay. The only money that matters at the end of the day is net. Shuffling reduces wear and tear on your car. And when you're dealing with less paxholes you're able to put in a longer day without getting burned out. And you'll be happier and have more positive energy for your good rides, increasing your chance for a tip from people who might actually tip.


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## mollyjj (Apr 20, 2018)

ariel5466 said:


> I use shuffling to make Uber Pro work for me. I want to see the trip info but shuffling is the only way I can maintain my AR/CR without wasting time and losing money on shitty rides. Any ride that Pro quotes me as being 10 minutes or less gets shuffled. Pax rated below 4.8 get shuffled, unless it's going to be a good fare and/or a DF trip. Not out in 2 minutes? Shuffled.
> 
> @3.75 You have admirers ?


Does anybody have a SUV?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Pax Collector said:


> I only shuffled those who deserved it, and boy were there plenty of those.


If the countdown timer is up to 4:00, and you're a pax calling me...you had better employ the sweetest tone of voice possible.

If I hear any huffy crap coming from your call, get ready for the cancel notification, because it is coming soon. Along with my $5.


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## 3.75 (Sep 29, 2017)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I've been driving 3 years with a low cancellation rate. In the past month I've made 215 trips and cancelled 7 times. My cancellation is at 4%. I'm also pretty close to gold, thing is I don't know how much longer I'll be doing uber so I don't know if it's worth. It shuffling in order to gain gold status . I don't think some shuffling will get my deactivated right now.


The only way you'll get noticed for shuffling is if you shuffle more than have rides. The other way is when the algorithm learns your behavioral patterns.

In other words, 3 to 1 is a good ratio of shuffling vs rides being given.

Also, don't wear out your shuffling perch. That will raise a flag.



Lissetti said:


> I am not a shuffler, but I am a hot canceller, like most Ants in Seattle. Cancel rates in the single digits and ARs below 50 are the norm there. This is due to the trial run Uber did in Seattle in 2017 with the Teen Rider Platform where kids as young as 13 could request an Uber and ride unaccompanied.
> 
> Many parents still hang onto the dream that we Seattle Ants will become Soccer Moms for their kids.


So you're telling me that you choose to not get paid for your time and miles spent on attempting to pick up a pax you do not want to provide a ride to?


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## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

Remember when cleaning fees were easy to get? Now is complicated because of terrible drivers making things up.

I’m pretty sure Uber will do something about shufflers, and all of us will suffer the consequences.

Thank you in advance.


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## 3.75 (Sep 29, 2017)

Chorch said:


> Remember when cleaning fees were easy to get? Now is complicated because of terrible drivers making things up.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Uber will do something about shufflers, and all of us will suffer the consequences.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


They pretty much have already, I've seen it where you do a legit cancel and they take away the money right after it happens. You then have to call the customer service line to get it back. It's a pain but better that being put in other situations.


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

ariel5466 said:


> And what cracks me up now is that what I described in "Oh, Christy" wasn't even a true shuffle! People get so worked up over the stupidest crap...


I consider that thread one of the first real threads about shuffling. At least one that gained traction on the general forums. I was just kinda browsing around reading the thread and was like "oh...this thread is basically about shuffling". Then it got to page 11 or something and thought that was cool. Then said something about Jayjay and everything else is history.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Chorch said:


> Remember when cleaning fees were easy to get? Now is complicated because of terrible drivers making things up.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Uber will do something about shufflers, and all of us will suffer the consequences.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


But is that how you really feel?

https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-refuses-to-pay-return-item-fee.346637/post-5305174


Chorch said:


> I need to learn from you ?
> How do you hide??





Gtown Driver said:


> I consider that thread one of the first real threads about shuffling. At least one that gained traction on the general forums. I was just kinda browsing around reading the thread and was like "oh...this thread is basically about shuffling". Then it got to page 11 or something and thought that was cool. Then said something about Jayjay and everything else is history.


Yeah I think that was the thread where I ended up being invited to meetups ?


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## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> But is that how you really feel?
> 
> https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-refuses-to-pay-return-item-fee.346637/post-5305174
> 
> ...


Hahaha you are goooood.... but it was more of a joke. I can't even remember when was the last time I shuffled.

And doing a cross-thread: this is what I mean with "we are different online than in real life" ?


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

Going to the mall. Gonna shuffle a ride or 2 while I’m there.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> On the toilet right now playing out all the shuffles I'm gonna do in my head.


You can Shuffle whilst upon the throne.



SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Going to the mall. Gonna shuffle a ride or 2 while I'm there.


You can get two squares easily


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

New2This said:


> You can Shuffle whilst upon the throne.
> 
> 
> You can get two squares easily
> ...


I'm curious about who's done that center square and how they did it ?


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

Got my first shuffle. This guy ordered for his girl I guess. Told him I couldn't see her and to have her wave her arms. Canceled and collected.



New2This said:


> You can Shuffle whilst upon the throne.
> 
> 
> You can get two squares easily
> ...


That is the funniest shit I've ever seen. I've been laughing so hard at this for the past 30 minutes. Dam.

That was invigorating. The feeling of ****ing Uber and the sheer clownery of it all had me laughing. I imagine this is how uber ceos feel when they wake up, just laughing at the thought of scamming millions of drivers.


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## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

Last week get a 15 min pickup going 25 mins east. It was to NYC. I didn't want to take it but took it since it was 4am.

Get there and he calls me. Tells me hell he out in 4 mins and to start the trip. Ibtell him no problem pal. 4 mins and 30 second ins and starts to head outside taking his sweet time with his suitcase. He gets about 25 ft from my car and the timers goes off and I cancel on him and took off. Lmao. He starts yelling and throwing his hands up. I was laughing my ass off. 

Got 10.50$ for the cancelation fee.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> I'm curious about who's done that center square and how they did it ?


Challenge Accepted:

Well, I can't actually do it yet but I worked out the logistics in my head. If you want to do Pool then you can make it work with ease, at least in my head it sounds easy.


First, hide your phone from pax. 
While on a Pool ride, get your Lyft ping. 
Let the Uber pax know you have to make a Pool stop
Shuffle Lyft
Tell Uber pax they didn't make it on time and resume.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

VanGuy said:


> Challenge Accepted:
> 
> Well, I can't actually do it yet but I worked out the logistics in my head. If you want to do Pool then you can make it work with ease, at least in my head it sounds easy.
> 
> ...


I've heard it theorized that way. I was wondering if there are any other ways. No shared rides in Richmond, the market is too small. And I'm so curious about who's actually pulled it off!


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> I've heard it theorized that way, too, in wondering if there are any other ways. No shared rides in Richmond, the market is too small.


Making the Walmart stop profitable:

Drop off Uber pax at a Walmart with a stop ride, shuffle a Lyft or 2 while you wait, make the second leg of the Uber ride.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

VanGuy said:


> Making the Walmart stop profitable:
> 
> Drop off Uber pax at a Walmart with a stop ride, shuffle a Lyft or 2 while you wait, make the second leg of the Uber ride.


Epic!


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

I'm an evil genius in my head. Not usually intentionally cruel. 

Even better, if there's a good Lyft ride in there, complete the Uber rider's trip, take the Lyft, and then come back for your original Uber rider's second leg, shuffle a couple more Lyfts while you wait.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

ariel5466 said:


> I'm curious about who's done that center square and how they did it ?


https://uberpeople.net/threads/tipped-by-an-uber-rider-while-on-a-lyft-ride.244320/#post-3680372


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

New2This said:


> https://uberpeople.net/threads/tipped-by-an-uber-rider-while-on-a-lyft-ride.244320/#post-3680372


Omg that's awesome ?


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## CT1 (Aug 23, 2019)

Shuffling is SO 2017.

Starting with 2020, it'll be called "the cold deck"


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

VanGuy said:


> Making the Walmart stop profitable:
> 
> Drop off Uber pax at a Walmart with a stop ride, shuffle a Lyft or 2 while you wait, make the second leg of the Uber ride.


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

I can’t believe I didn’t do this earlier. I’m gonna shoot for $20 to cover my gas at least.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Yeah well, in real life I'm a little more Boy Scout and a little less Savage but I'm an excellent day dreamer when someone poses a how to question.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I can't believe I didn't do this earlier. I'm gonna shoot for $20 to cover my gas at least.


Like a caveman that just discovered fire


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

3.75 said:


> So you're telling me that you choose to not get paid for your time and miles spent on attempting to pick up a pax you do not want to provide a ride to?


I have a very low AR rate. I keep a log of all grocery stores, transit centers, and other problem places and simply don't answer the request when it seems its coming from one of those places.

I do semi shuffle. Meaning I teach pax who should know better than trying to get an uber in the first place.

Unaccompanied kids. Bouncers/bar owners who are trying to put a too drunk pax in my car, Felishas who try to get an attitude with me via text and call before I arrived.....

I hand out my punishments as I see fit...make no mistake.


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

Shuffled another one. This girl took 4 minutes just to call me. I answered but something went wrong and the call dropped”I’m outside Macy’s” “So am I, where are you?”


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> Last week get a 15 min pickup going 25 mins east. It was to NYC. I didn't want to take it but took it since it was 4am.
> 
> Get there and he calls me. Tells me hell he out in 4 mins and to start the trip. Ibtell him no problem pal. 4 mins and 30 second ins and starts to head outside taking his sweet time with his suitcase. He gets about 25 ft from my car and the timers goes off and I cancel on him and took off. Lmao. He starts yelling and throwing his hands up. I was laughing my ass off.
> 
> Got 10.50$ for the cancelation fee.


-------------------------
Well now !!! That is definitely something to be proud of. Congratulations, they should make you driver of the week !!


----------



## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

You can tell Ben really means well and despite my evil imagination I probably have a lot in common with him.


----------



## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

You cant make money canceling rides. $4 is not what your looking for. You want the ride...not to drive to a pickup, wait 5 minutes then collect $4 just to drive to another pickup? Sometimes driver just don’t think things through alot.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

New2This said:


> If you do it SoyBoy will say we've corrupted you ?


He already says that ?



CJfrom619 said:


> You cant make money canceling rides. $4 is not what your looking for. You want the ride...not to drive to a pickup, wait 5 minutes then collect $4 just to drive to another pickup? Sometimes driver just don't think things through alot.


If it's going to be a good ride, of course don't shuffle those. But if you're going to have to drive a mile and a half that takes 10 minutes with traffic and lights for $3, vs staying put for $3.75, which makes more sense to you?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Chorch said:


> Remember when cleaning fees were easy to get? Now is complicated because of terrible drivers making things up.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Uber will do something about shufflers, and all of us will suffer the consequences.


I made that point a couple months back. I have no problem with people who cancel for legitimate concerns about passenger demeanor/age/eligibility or even passenger late-ness to a pickup. However, shuffling has become an actual sport for some drivers, and the cascading effect will make it difficult on honest drivers who are being stiffed by a pax.

A month ago, I had a Lyft passenger who got shuffled. She was mad as Hell, and I became a convenient target for her wrath. I tried my best to calm her down, and explain what had likely happened to her. Thankfully, she seemed rational enough to not take out her rightful frustrations on me in the form of a false complaint and/or 1* rating.

Some drivers may not get so lucky. Not only will Uber make it more difficult for us, but the pax themselves are going to be more irritated at the poor driver who follows after a shuffle victim.

Uber and Lyft are ripping off honest drivers. No doubt about it. I try desperately to not pay their injustice forward by ripping off honest passengers.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

rkozy said:


> I made that point a couple months back. I have no problem with people who cancel for legitimate concerns about passenger demeanor/age/eligibility or even passenger late-ness to a pickup. However, shuffling has become an actual sport for some drivers, and the cascading effect will make it difficult on honest drivers who are being stiffed by a pax.
> 
> A month ago, I had a Lyft passenger who got shuffled. She was mad as Hell, and I became a convenient target for her wrath. I tried my best to calm her down, and explain what had likely happened to her. Thankfully, she seemed rational enough to not take out her rightful frustrations on me in the form of a false complaint and/or 1* rating.
> 
> ...


But it's like @Another Uber Driver says, why should the drivers be the only ones in the equation who are playing it clean? Look at who we're working for!

I simply work with the incentives that the companies themselves put in place. The fact is that it's more profitable to shuffle than to drive for a lot of the rides we get. I also shuffle to make myself whole when Uber screws me out of money I earned legitimately.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> I simply work with the incentives that the companies themselves put in place. The fact is that it's more profitable to shuffle than to drive for a lot of the rides we get. I also shuffle to make myself whole when Uber screws me out of money I earned legitimately.


Uber won't see it that way, and eventually the "incentives" you are currently using to offset your less desirable rides will be eliminated. Then the pax will be further emboldened to keep us waiting longer, or to just cancel rides altogether...even as we're close to pulling up. And, because Uber has now eliminated/restricted no-show fees, all drivers will get hosed by this change of rules.

I'm sure plenty of drivers felt economically justified putting fake vomit on seats to collect the $150 clean-up fee. Now, when a passenger actually does throw up on your seat, a large portion of that clean-up expense is coming directly out of your pocket.

It's a well-known fact Uber corporate types scour these forums. They have undoubtedly read dozens of posts about how passengers are shuffled for money. It would be naive to think they're going to let that practice continue unabated.

I understand you have to do what's best for you. Just don't be surprised when Uber closes some more gaping loopholes in the future.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

rkozy said:


> Uber won't see it that way, and eventually the "incentives" you are currently using to offset your less desirable rides will be eliminated. Then the pax will be further emboldened to keep us waiting longer, or to just cancel rides altogether...even as we're close to pulling up. And, because Uber has now eliminated/restricted no-show fees, all drivers will get hosed by this change of rules.
> 
> I'm sure plenty of drivers felt economically justified putting fake vomit on seats to collect the $150 clean-up fee. Now, when a passenger actually does throw up on your seat, a large portion of that clean-up expense is coming directly out of your pocket.
> 
> ...


When I stop making enough money to be worth it, I'll stop driving. That day is going to come for all of us, it's only a matter of time.

Oh, and if some Uber corporate drone is reading this?

**** you, buddy!

I really do love this shuffle discussion, I felt like I had to sit out the last big one. Still read every word though.

But that's it from me today. Date night with my husband tonight, gotta stay off my phone if I want to stay married ?


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> I really do love this shuffle discussion, I felt like I had to sit out the last big one. Still read every word though.


I'd like to think Uber execs will read these shuffle discussions, and say to themselves, "Oh my God! Our insatiable greed is turning our drivers against our very customers. Maybe we should pay them better."

But, I'm too much of a cynic to believe that will ever happen.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

rkozy said:


> I'd like to think Uber execs will read these shuffle discussions, and say to themselves, "Oh my God! Our insatiable greed is turning our drivers against our very customers. Maybe we should pay them better."
> 
> But, I'm too much of a cynic to believe that will ever happen.


Never happen. If anything, Uber execs will say "OMG! Drivers are getting $3 75 for doing nothing. This must end!"


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Never happen. If anything, Uber execs will say "OMG! Drivers are getting $3 75 for doing nothing. This must end!"


That's precisely what will happen. And, when I show up at an address, and nobody comes out for eight minutes...I'll be forced to leave without a single penny for my efforts.

That's where shuffling will lead us. Uber holds all the cards. We have nothing to play.


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## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

rkozy said:


> That's precisely what will happen. And, when I show up at an address, and nobody comes out for eight minutes...I'll be forced to leave without a single penny for my efforts.
> 
> That's where shuffling will lead us. Uber holds all the cards. We have nothing to play.


Time is on our side. Watch the stock ticker.


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

ariel5466 said:


> He already says that ?
> 
> If it's going to be a good ride, of course don't shuffle those. But if you're going to have to drive a mile and a half that takes 10 minutes with traffic and lights for $3, vs staying put for $3.75, which makes more sense to you?


But I'm not driving to a pickup that I feel is gonna be a bad ride though...if I accept a request it's because I think it has a chance to be a good ride. I'm not heading to a pickup unless I'm trying to pick the rider up.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Time is on our side. Watch the stock ticker.


If Uber/Lyft go under, I don't see how that helps us. If one falls, the other is just going to take over their pax list, but keep the low compensation the same. if both go under, another company might try their hand at it...but again, the driver compensation will be kept low since the employment market has already dictated that people (especially no-skill labor/foreigners) are willing to drive for $0.35 per mile.

The genie isn't going back in the bottle. This is a race to the bottom, regardless which company is around to conduct the race.



CJfrom619 said:


> I'm not heading to a pickup unless I'm trying to pick the rider up.


I assume every ping is going to be a minimum fare. Many of them are. That's why wasting your effort on keeping your AR% high is such an Ant Game not worth playing.

Accept only pings that are 1) relatively close to your location, and 2) areas known for being decent pick-up spots.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

MadTownUberD said:


> This definition of shuffling seems to imply getting the pax to cancel. What if they don't cancel?
> 
> 
> Please tell me where I can sign up to get my butt kicked by @ariel5466


You just need to be hidden in plain sight to shuffle. Pax doesn't need to cancel, the timer runs out.

Try to be like the ladies below :winking:

Now if I can only get ariel5466 and Lissetti to do this together ?


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

How'd I do?


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

rkozy said:


> If Uber/Lyft go under, I don't see how that helps us. If one falls, the other is just going to take over their pax list, but keep the low compensation the same. if both go under, another company might try their hand at it...but again, the driver compensation will be kept low since the employment market has already dictated that people (especially no-skill labor/foreigners) are willing to drive for $0.35 per mile.
> 
> The genie isn't going back in the bottle. This is a race to the bottom, regardless which company is around to conduct the race.
> 
> ...


Not so. Whoever comes along after Uberlyft will not have access to massive VC. They will have to charge accordingly or immediately go under.


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## Michael Jordan (Jan 12, 2019)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I've eaten 2 ubereats after I went on a missions finding someone's door. Snowflakes can't walk outside their complex to meet me.


HA! You reminded me of one of the few UE meals I've enjoyed. I picked up a $60 lunch order for 2-3 people during a terrible rainstorm to deliver to an on campus building. Between the rain and no parking, no way in hell I take it to the door. I let him know I'm at the building - which would take most of a city block and we start this dance.
"Yes sir where are you located so I can get close."
"It's the door at the end of the sidewalk"
"What door? Which sidewalk sir?"

Back and forth until finally, "Sir, this is your food and it's getting cold. I'm monitored and I have another order. I MUST leave in another minute and a half unless you come get your food"
He's still trying to tell me "just come up the sidewalk".

Called my wife and delivered lunch to her office.
Smartass is out $60, still hungry and NOW he's gotta find something to eat.
AND explain to coworkers why there's no food.
What an ass.


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

rkozy said:


> If Uber/Lyft go under, I don't see how that helps us. If one falls, the other is just going to take over their pax list, but keep the low compensation the same. if both go under, another company might try their hand at it...but again, the driver compensation will be kept low since the employment market has already dictated that people (especially no-skill labor/foreigners) are willing to drive for $0.35 per mile.
> 
> The genie isn't going back in the bottle. This is a race to the bottom, regardless which company is around to conduct the race.
> 
> ...


It has nothing to do with AR. Its about making a decision before you head to a pickup.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

CJfrom619 said:


> It has nothing to do with AR. Its about making a decision before you head to a pickup.


That's what I'm saying. Don't accept crap pings that are far away in known trouble spots. Uber and Lyft will get all mad that you declined a ping, but who cares?

I'm not going to waste my gas driving around for crap pings so I can keep an Uber Pro status.



TwoFiddyMile said:


> Not so. Whoever comes along after Uberlyft will not have access to massive VC. They will have to charge accordingly or immediately go under.


They may charge pax accordingly, but any company that is profit-oriented will keep driver rates low for the sake of their own profitability. Uber and Lyft aren't suffering from a driver shortage. They are suffering from blowing too much money on RoboCar development. Drivers are still signing up faster than Lyft and Uber can get them on the road...even with crap pay.

That's why Wal-Mart and McDonald's still make billions. The American labor market has been weak for decades, and there are millions who will accept crap pay simply to have a job. That dynamic won't change in the ride share industry either.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

rkozy said:


> Uber won't see it that way, and eventually the "incentives" you are currently using to offset your less desirable rides will be eliminated.


As a result, drivers will decline more pings. Drivers will pull up to an address, give two minutes at the most and leave. Drivers will not accept pings more than two minutes from them. As a result, customers will wait longer.



rkozy said:


> Then the pax will be further emboldened to keep us waiting longer,


That will not matter. Drivers will cancel after two minutes.



rkozy said:


> or to just cancel rides altogether...even as we're close to pulling up


They will cancel because no one is accepting the ping. This already happened on Lyft even before the last rounds of pay cuts.

.



rkozy said:


> I'm sure plenty of drivers felt economically justified putting fake vomit on seats to collect the $150 clean-up fee.


I never would do it, but I see why other drivers did. If I were not worried about the penalties for getting caught , I would do it, as well.



rkozy said:


> Now, when a passenger actually does throw up on your seat, a large portion of that clean-up expense is coming directly out of your pocket.


I have been out here l ong enough to tell a passenger who is going to ralph. He never makes it into my car.



rkozy said:


> It would be naive to think they're going to let that practice continue unabated.


They know what will happen if they eliminate the no show fee. Lyft has done this on Shared in some markets and now no driver will accept the Shareds.



rkozy said:


> Just don't be surprised when Uber closes some more gaping loopholes in the future.


.......and we will find ways around it. If a human being invents it, a human being can foil it.



rkozy said:


> when I show up at an address, and nobody comes out for eight minutes...I'll be forced to leave without a single penny for my efforts.


You should not be waiting eight minutes for anyone, as it is, without a cash deposit.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Once Uber decides to crack down on shuffling, there are going to be many drivers who will be forced to leave. My guess is Uber may flag accounts that have too many no-shows in a day, and while they may have been doing that already, the threshold for being flagged is going to drop even lower. Uber has an overabundance of drivers in many markets, and they always seem to sign up new ones all the time.

Uber can play hardball because the labor market in America is sh!t.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> If that was the case the whole DC sub forum would be deactivated ?
> 
> Pure speculation. No one knows what really goes into the algorithm.
> 
> ...


Ariel is a pro now. Once a member of the choir, now she is preaching!

It's been hashed out many times, I agree with you about conserving energy.

I'm not a shuffler, I'm more inclined to let trip time out and run the other app if it's bad. Let the pax cancel. If I skip a trip because I don't get good "feels" from pax, then it's on me, I cancel.

Bad neighborhood? I don't accept.

I suppose the difference is if you work the hood, you need to shuffle to keep pro. If you decline bad areas you will never get it. I understand you work a rough area. Take care out there.

Pax lately have been telling me stories about sketchy things other drivers have done.


...........................

I just figured out how to lyft shuffle an Uber on any trip...

I know I shouldn't be telling you this...

You accept trip 1. Remember where it is.

You accept trip 2. Pick up pax 2.

Tell pax 2 that you just got a call from pax 1, that he left his phone in your car and it needs to be returned before you leave the area. Show the pax a spare phone ( or purse, or...)

Drive to pax 1. Tell pax 2 this is where you were going to meet him. Shuffle. Tell pax 2, "sorry but he didn't show. We tried to do the right thing."

Resume trip 2.


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

I love this. Did it 4 times today. Once I hid in cash parking lot next to staples while the guy was looking for me lol._ with those 4 cancellations alone I felt soooooo much less stress on me. Made it to $140 with ease. _


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## Leander Driver (Aug 16, 2019)

Roadmasta said:


> I'm only nightshift part time and these are my favorite things, shuffling. In my market 5.0 pax are new or fake rated Lyft customers which I haven't taken in about 6 months. I took a 4.5 customer tonight almost declined but took it because was nearby, nice conversation. No problems but no tip. I gave them a 5er but debated a 4 because they wouldn't see a rating drop.


Why would you rate a pax lower than a 5 simply because they didn't tip...remember karma's s a *****.


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## GoldenGoji (Apr 30, 2018)

When I started driving last year here in California when it was still around 79 or 80 cents per mile, I honestly waited for people even though I could have cancelled them already simply because I believed that I'll probably make more money by driving them around instead of cancelling them. Sometimes I would wait for them for an extra 5 or 6 minutes before I hit the active cancellation button. Sometimes, I'd end up in the green marker on the map, but then the passenger would call and say they're somewhere else! I'd still drive to find them back then. What I learned though, was that waiting for them does not really yield beneficial results to me. Driving to find them after arriving at the green spot because they're not there also wastes my time and gas. Majority of the rides, at least in my market, are only around 2 to 3 miles. Getting something 5 miles to 15 miles or more is quite hard.

Ever since the pay cut down to 60 cents per mile, I've been more "Cancellation Happy". Minimum fare here is $2.40. Cancellation fee is $3.75. When I pick up passengers and they only travel 1 or 3 miles, I get somewhere around $2.40 to $3.00. If I cancelled, I'd get $3.75 without wasting my gas, plus I'd be free to wait for a new passenger who might travel a good distance.

One moment that really changed my mind about cancellations happened recently. I was driving around when suddenly, I got a request 3 miles away. For me, anything that's around 3 miles is pretty acceptable so I went ahead. I got to the location, which was a medical building, and waited for the passenger. Cancellation time finally got enabled and still no passenger. Suddenly the passenger called. Since I was not a cold hearted driver yet, I answered, thinking that it's probably a patient of the medical building who just wanted to go home. Didn't want to make the person suffer or wait anymore so I thought "A little sacrifice would be ok". Passenger told me that she's at the medical building, so I told her that I was in front of the entrance. Then later on she told me she still can't see me. I read the address to her again, and that's when she told me that she "had no idea" how it happened, but she gave me the wrong address!!! So she gave me a new address to pick her up from, 1 mile away, a "Rehab center". Being the goody-two-shoes that I was, I drove to the location. When I picked her up, she had this entitled attitude about her. She slammed the door close. She didn't apologize for giving me the wrong address. She wouldn't talk or acknowledge me when I asked her "How's your day so far?". She didn't answer me when I asked her "Is the temperature good for you?" so I could adjust the aircon if she wanted me to. And worst of all, her destination was just 0.8 miles away! (YES, that 0.8 miles got burned into my brain when I saw it on the map). I immediately regretted ever putting the effort to pick her up and driving her to her destination. Whatever spirit of generosity and kindness I had got erased by her rudeness. How much did I get for wasting my time and gas for someone like her? Around $2.75 or $3.25. I should have just cancelled when she wasn't where the green marker was and collected my $3.75. Her rude, ugly personality matched her* f*ugly looks.

So yeah, now, if someone doesn't show up at the green marker on the map, I just cancel it right away upon the cancellation button's activation. Actually, I hope that 25% of my passengers won't show up anymore so I could just cancel cancel cancel. If I try to estimate, if ever I get a 15 mile ride, I'd only make 60 cents per mile + 20 cents per minute, so normally that's just somewhere between $9 to $13 (not counting tips given by good people). If I could get 3 legitimate cancellations (passengers who never showed up in my new stricter time), then that's $11.25 for me without wasting 15 miles of gas. Here, a gallon of gas is usually $3.50 to $4, and at least for my car a gallon means 20 to 25 miles. So if I drove 15 miles and let's say I drove 3 miles to pick up the passenger, that means I would have used up 18 gallons of gas for that ride. So if I earned, let's say $13 for driving 3 miles to the passenger and driving them 15 miles away, that means $13 - around $4 (gas) = I only made around $9. Cancelling rides is definitely more profitable because I waste less gas, but of course it's something I shouldn't do so blatantly to avoid "suspicions" from the ever watchful eye of the Uberlord. Hey I'm not a mathematician so if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong lol!


----------



## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

*z*


SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I always 1 Star short trips. This shuffling thing has me dying. I've been cracking up for the past 3 hours reading about it. Can't wait for my first day on team shuffle tomorrow. LA PAX be ready I'm coming for that ROY of the year award.


I posted that thought about dishing out 1* to short trippers on Quora and got flamed by self-righteous drivers and riders who argued that it was morally wrong to 1* them. Or 1* short trippers asking for water.

Those FHPs can't grasp the idea that we don't want to drive for charity.



SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> View attachment 351277
> 
> 
> How'd I do?


Bad. I never bothered to reply texts. I'm driving, dude!



GoldenGoji said:


> When I started driving last year here in California when it was still around 79 or 80 cents per mile, I honestly waited for people even though I could have cancelled them already simply because I believed that I'll probably make more money by driving them around instead of cancelling them. Sometimes I would wait for them for an extra 5 or 6 minutes before I hit the active cancellation button. Sometimes, I'd end up in the green marker on the map, but then the passenger would call and say they're somewhere else! I'd still drive to find them back then. What I learned though, was that waiting for them does not really yield beneficial results to me. Driving to find them after arriving at the green spot because they're not there also wastes my time and gas. Majority of the rides, at least in my market, are only around 2 to 3 miles. Getting something 5 miles to 15 miles or more is quite hard.
> 
> Ever since the pay cut down to 60 cents per mile, I've been more "Cancellation Happy". Minimum fare here is $2.40. Cancellation fee is $3.75. When I pick up passengers and they only travel 1 or 3 miles, I get somewhere around $2.40 to $3.00. If I cancelled, I'd get $3.75 without wasting my gas, plus I'd be free to wait for a new passenger who might travel a good distance.
> 
> ...


Only surges get phone calls. That's to preserve the ping and prevent them from cancelling.

Base rates, if they're not at the pin... too bad, so sad, no show, byeeee.


----------



## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

Leander Driver said:


> Why would you rate a pax lower than a 5 simply because they didn't tip...remember karma's s a @@@@@.


Because it's a business decision aimed at improving profitability.


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

MadTownUberD said:


> Because it's a business decision aimed at improving profitability.


Giving 1* makes you money?


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Chorch said:


> Giving 1* makes you money?


It provides pavlovian conditioning.


----------



## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

Chorch said:


> Giving 1* makes you money?


It gives the rider a lower average rating which makes that person less likely to be picked up next time, possibly by me. Plus I believe a 1* is an auto unmatch.

I don't 1* people for not tipping on a short trip...but I have been known to 4* them.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

ANT 7 said:


> I only do it in extreme circumstances.
> 
> Today the pickup was at 600 AM at a highway interchange, a cloverleaf to be exact. The guy was nowhere to be found from where I was driving, and frankly, he could have been underneath on several of the lower lanes, who knows. I am not going to phone the idiot or drive around in circles to find him or her.There was no way for me to park there obviously, so I drove 2 blocks away and found a spot where I could hang out until the counter wound down and I got my $4.00 fee.


Have had the same exact thing several times. Pin drop right on the highway or entrance/ exit. All these are misplaced pin due to pax's error.

Most don't realize they're doing it wrong. It's more Uber's fault; however, unless it's very obvious, or convenient, where they are, it's cancel.

With that being said I NEVER, EVER do the intentional side street thing. It's outright fraud. Will easily result in deactivation.

Also, utilize Uber as a rider, and would relentlessly pursue his/her deactivation if they pulled that stunt on me.


----------



## Roadmasta (Aug 4, 2017)

Feeling down, feeling blue, shuffle.


Leander Driver said:


> Why would you rate a pax lower than a 5 simply because they didn't tip...remember karma's s a @@@@@.


Karma is a two way street. Tipping in the service industry is customary in this country.


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> . .
> 
> Also, utilize Uber as a rider, and would relentlessly pursue his/her deactivation if they pulled that stunt on me.


I don't think most pax think this way. They just order another ride.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I only cancel when it's legit


Amen. If a driver really doesn't want the pings they don't prefer, maybe another job for them is the solution? What will happen, eventually, Uber will over correct for this and it will punish all. Oh well.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Also, utilize Uber as a rider, and would relentlessly pursue his/her deactivation if they pulled that stunt on me.


Here's how that'll go:

Dear @MiamiKid ,

Thank you for reporting you were Shuffled by Rognar.

You will not be matched with that rider again.

Please to uninstall and reinstall the app, then reboot your phone. This should solve the problem.

Regards

Rohit


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I don't think most pax think this way. They just order another ride.


Gotta tell ya, after seeing the attitudes, of drivers, on this forum I've seriously changed my attitude as well.

Past four years both a driver and rider, and when riding, used to always tip and five stars. Now, even though also a driver, tip very, very selectively.

Have gone from 98% to around 20%. Reading about intentional shuffling makes me sick to my stomach. Dispeccable.

For those who deserve the shuffle, for something they did intentionally - different story. Cancel/collect. Same for rudeness, attitudes and of course rule violations.
?



New2This said:


> Here's how that'll go:
> 
> Dear @MiamiKid ,
> 
> ...


Thanks for your valuable insight.

However, will continue doing things, my way. Has worked well past four years. No worries.


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

I disagree @MiamiKid . My quest to $125 was made so much easier by shuffling yesterday. I'll be doing it when I'm not actually in my car as well. I see no harm in having an entitled passenger wait an extra 5 minutes for another ride. If they want to get a refund they can call in. In the end I'll have cashed out and they'll have gotten their money back. Uber loses.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I disagree @MiamiKid . My quest to $125 was made so much easier by shuffling yesterday. I'll be doing it when I'm not actually in my car as well. I see no harm in having an entitled passenger wait an extra 5 minutes for another ride. If they want to get a refund they can call in. In the end I'll have cashed out and they'll have gotten their money back. Uber loses.


That's your business to do as you wish. Will never know you (thankfully).

However, my opinion will not change. Look down on this fraudulent behavior. Truly beneath my class.

And if a driver pulls this scumbag stunt on me? There will be consequences. That I guarantee you.
?


----------



## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

rkozy said:


> That's precisely what will happen. And, when I show up at an address, and nobody comes out for eight minutes...I'll be forced to leave without a single penny for my efforts.
> 
> That's where shuffling will lead us. Uber holds all the cards. We have nothing to play.


Cancellation fees were taken away in Houston for a while. But uber had to reinstate them. Drivers simply stopped waiting AT ALL. Pax were canceled on if they weren't toes on the curb.


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> That's your business to do as you wish. Will never know you (thankfully).
> 
> However, my opinion will not change. Look down on this fraudulent behavior. Truly beneath my class.
> 
> ...


Dam you're such a good person. You're just so morally sound. I remember when I used to be like you. I wish I could meet someone like you.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Dam you're such a good person. You're just so morally sound. I remember when I used to be like you. I wish I could meet someone like you.


OK, we get it. You're a card-carrying member of "Club Shuffle", with all the benefits it entails. I've seen new members get attaboys from other members. Almost as useful as Uber badges.

Being a member of Club Shuffle also comes with known drawbacks, including shaming from non members. You just have to accept that not everyone is at "your level". Best to just shuffle on the DL.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> You just need to be hidden in plain sight to shuffle. Pax doesn't need to cancel, the timer runs out.
> 
> Try to be like the ladies below :winking:
> 
> Now if I can only get ariel5466 and Lissetti to do this together ?


Fraudulent, criminal behavior. And, "you people" are rationalizing the same exact way criminals do.

You're, also, extremely insecure about your lowlife activity. Otherwise, you would not be on this forum bragging about it. Again > criminals do this.

You're hoping that others do this as well and that folks will help you to justify this behavior. Similar to the way gangs operate.


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

OldBay said:


> OK, we get it. You're a card-carrying member of "Club Shuffle", with all the benefits it entails. I've seen new members get attaboys from other members. Almost as useful as Uber badges.
> 
> Being a member of Club Shuffle also comes with known drawbacks, including shaming from non members. You just have to accept that not everyone is at "your level". Best to just shuffle on the DL.


I'm don't carry whatever badge it is you're talking about. I just think it's funny that the dude above me is trying to hold a moral high ground while working for one of the most morally corrupt companies of all time. Being a "nice guy" isn't virtuous.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Dam you're such a good person. You're just so morally sound. I remember when I used to be like you. I wish I could meet someone like you.


Pretty basic morals to me. Nothing saint like. Just do not partake in intentionally ripping people off. Pretty simple. Trust me, I feel much better leading my life this way.

Those who deserve it? Different deal altogether.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I'm don't carry whatever badge it is you're talking about. I just think it's funny that the dude above me is trying to hold a moral high ground while working for one of the most morally corrupt companies of all time. Being a "nice guy" isn't virtuous.


Honestly, anyone working for a publicly traded company, the same thing could be said. The bottom line is the most important thing at every large company, employees/environment/customers often get crushed. You need to hold your head up and not take it out on others.

There are problems with Uber's business model, but it also brings alot of good. How is Uber any worse than oil companies that destroy the environment, or defense contractors that build weapons of mass destruction?

If shuffling actually earns you more money, then I understand why you are doing it. ( I don't think it would in my market, but I'm not getting non stop pings) Bragging about it is only making other non-shufflers angry. Maybe just shuffle off into the sunset without bragging about it?

However, I understand where you are coming from. I work in a "white" town. A short/medium trip gets a tip 50%-90% of the time. And usually the destinations are close to the pickups. If I was driving in DC and I knew certain areas/demographics never tipped, and that traffic moved at a crawl, I might need to do the same thing. I wouldn't blame in on the company though, just bad pax.


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

VanGuy said:


> I'm an evil genius in my head. Not usually intentionally cruel. :smiles:
> 
> Even better, if there's a good Lyft ride in there, complete the Uber rider's trip, take the Lyft, and then come back for your original Uber rider's second leg, shuffle a couple more Lyfts while you wait.


Nobody with a van can be intentionally evil ??



SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I love this. Did it 4 times today. Once I hid in cash parking lot next to staples while the guy was looking for me lol._ with those 4 cancellations alone I felt soooooo much less stress on me. Made it to $140 with ease. _


Are you shuffling and updating as this thread grows? This is a under reported highlight ?


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I love this. Did it 4 times today. Once I hid in cash parking lot next to staples while the guy was looking for me lol._ with those 4 cancellations alone I felt soooooo much less stress on me. Made it to $140 with ease. _


This is shocking. Have multiple contacts, at corporate; so, turning this information over to them.

Ripping customers off is disgraceful and disgusting. You're making it worse for the 98%, of drivers, who are totally honest.

Hoping you get caught and deactivated. Uber's getting a heads up in your market. Would rethink your strategy. Quickly.



SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I love this. Did it 4 times today. Once I hid in cash parking lot next to staples while the guy was looking for me lol._ with those 4 cancellations alone I felt soooooo much less stress on me. Made it to $140 with ease. _


And, if you don't mind, could you please post your make, year and tag # for your current vehicle?

Thanks


----------



## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

Glad to see we can still keep the debates and discussions on track here. 

As far as Uber is concerned, they used to show us the destinations of pax rides until the cherry pickers ruined it by leaving the short rides standing at the curb and only taking the long hauls. 

Uber will catch onto the Shuffle, and re-write their algorithm to deter that practice as well. I'm sure this new feature added to the app will be at a cost to all drivers. Shufflers and non-Shufflers.


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## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Fraudulent, criminal behavior. And, "you people" are rationalizing the same exact way criminals do.
> 
> You're, also, extremely insecure about your lowlife activity. Otherwise, you would not be on this forum bragging about it. Again > criminals do this.
> 
> You're hoping that others do this as well and that folks will help you to justify this behavior. Similar to the way gangs operate.


Okay now that you've got that off your chest how do you feel?


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Okay now that you've got that off your chest how do you feel?


Feel very good actually. Great feeling knowing I've never, nor ever will, intentionally shuffle pax's.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Feel very good actually. Great feeling knowing I've never, nor ever will, intentionally shuffle pax's.


Well good because Im feeling good too. I believe I'm making the world a better place every time I shuffle a lazy college kid pool ride, every Bonquita and her two loaded shopping carts, ever crackhead Freddy who's cigarette is still lit when he place it behind his ear for safekeeping.

These people are typically leaches to society. It's about time someone gives them a taste of there own medicine.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Well good because Im feeling good too. I believe I'm making the world a better place every time I shuffle a lazy college kid pool ride, every Bonquita and her two loaded shopping carts, ever crackhead Freddy who's cigarette is still lit when he place it behind his ear for safekeeping.
> 
> These people are typically leaches to society. It's about time someone gives them a taste of there own medicine.


Love to see you explain your rationale to ajudge sometime. ??


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Love to see you explain your rationale to ajudge sometime. ??


So would I! The judge would probably shake his hand for making a profit off an unprofitable pax. 
Don't hate the player, hate the game.


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

Lissetti said:


> Glad to see we can still keep the debates and discussions on track here.
> 
> As far as Uber is concerned, they used to show us the destinations of pax rides until the cherry pickers ruined it by leaving the short rides standing at the curb and only taking the long hauls.
> 
> Uber will catch onto the Shuffle, and re-write their algorithm to deter that practice as well. I'm sure this new feature added to the app will be at a cost to all drivers. Shufflers and non-Shufflers.


cherry pickers ruined it?
im an independent contractor doing due diligence to make sure my blank contract covers my costs + a legal wage per my human & constitutional rights, I dont know about you but I dont allow myself to be coerced into providing free labor.

drivers who actually service rides that dont pay $8-10 gross ruined it by dishonoring all the brave people who actually died for labor rights & minimum wages so they wouldn't be exploited for childrens/illegal wages/conditions, drivers that are willing to degrade themselves so they dont have to take a drug test, stick to a schedule, wear a paper hat, say welcome to walmart or do you want fries with that, the seniors & immigrants doing it for self preservation i kinda get the others not so much

uber Lyft ruined it by cutting pay 80+% & lying non stop lol

blaming labor just trying to be paid legally is kinda victim blaming

if everyride paid a minimum $10 gross which would be maybe minimum wage at 2 rides per hour and no youre not getting 3-5 pings 24/7 everyday & a legal per mile per minute id accept almost all of em drive when i feel like driving stop when o feel like stopping like i did my first 6 months 5 years ago, now i have to ignore 90+% of requests cuz they dont cover costs & im xl only lmao i have no clue why the ..60 per mile tiers still actually drive

anyhoo
different strokes i suppose

as dara k current ceo just said on a conference call

. "Our drivers consistently tell us that the reason why they value Uber is they value their freedom," Khosrowshahi said on the earnings call. "They're their own boss. They run their own business."

I run MY own business & dont work for free or run an unprofitable business. By law I cant agree to work for free anyway so those blank contracts not going 10+ miles are in breach & illegal to enforce, i.e. not binding


----------



## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> cherry pickers ruined it?
> im an independent contractor doing due diligence to make sure my blank contract covers my costs + a legal wage per my human & constitutional rights, I dont know about you but I dont allow myself to be coerced into providing free labor.
> 
> drivers who actually service rides that dont pay $8-10 gross ruined it by dishonoring all the brave people who actually died for labor rights & minimum wages so they wouldn't be exploited for childrens/illegal wages, drivers that are willing to degrade themselves so they dont have to take a drug test, wear a paper hat, say welcome to walmart or do you want fries with that, the seniors & immigrants doing it for self preservation i kinda get the others not so much
> ...


Cherry Picking and what you mentioned..

Glad to hear your opinion.. :smiles:


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Well good because Im feeling good too. I believe I'm making the world a better place every time I shuffle a lazy college kid pool ride, every Bonquita and her two loaded shopping carts, ever crackhead Freddy who's cigarette is still lit when he place it behind his ear for safekeeping.
> 
> These people are typically leaches to society. It's about time someone gives them a taste of there own medicine.
> 
> ...


So let's see if we all understand this logic of yours. You determine that a good portion, of Uber's customers, are like a subculture. "Leaches" as you call them.

Moreover, you certify yourself as the "expert" who's able to make this determination. All on your own, you're the "Man" who decides.

Furthermore, you've made this judgment that it's now "fair game" to charge them for services they won't receive. Nothing can happen to you because you're the expert, and you've confirmed these people deserve it.

Anyway, wondering is this a double standard that only applies to "entitled Uber customers"? Or, can any business, or individual, rip them off because you've established this fact?

In other words, can say a restaurant charge for food they won't serve, or deliver, to them because they're leaches?

If so, you should obtain a law degree, pass the bar and go on to be a top notch criminal defense attorney. Sounds like you've got it all figured out. NOT
??


----------



## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

Michael Jordan said:


> HA! You reminded me of one of the few UE meals I've enjoyed. I picked up a $60 lunch order for 2-3 people during a terrible rainstorm to deliver to an on campus building. Between the rain and no parking, no way in hell I take it to the door. I let him know I'm at the building - which would take most of a city block and we start this dance.
> "Yes sir where are you located so I can get close."
> "It's the door at the end of the sidewalk"
> "What door? Which sidewalk sir?"
> ...


 I fail to see the humor in what you did. It's one thing to cancel a ride for $3.75. But we're talkin a $60 order of food here. Try to imagine the people that went without lunch that day for Your Entertainment. That's not funny, it's Criminal.


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## SushiGirl (Aug 28, 2016)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I always 1 Star short trips. This shuffling thing has me dying. I've been cracking up for the past 3 hours reading about it. Can't wait for my first day on team shuffle tomorrow. LA PAX be ready I'm coming for that ROY of the year award.


Why do you 1 star short trips???


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> cherry pickers ruined it?
> im an independent contractor doing due diligence to make sure my blank contract covers my costs + a legal wage per my human & constitutional rights, I dont know about you but I dont allow myself to be coerced into providing free labor.
> 
> drivers who actually service rides that dont pay $8-10 gross ruined it by dishonoring all the brave people who actually died for labor rights & minimum wages so they wouldn't be exploited for childrens/illegal wages/conditions, drivers that are willing to degrade themselves so they dont have to take a drug test, stick to a schedule, wear a paper hat, say welcome to walmart or do you want fries with that, the seniors & immigrants doing it for self preservation i kinda get the others not so much
> ...


And there's absolute perfect solution for you:

QUIT DRIVING RIDESHARE ?
?



Michael Jordan said:


> HA! You reminded me of one of the few UE meals I've enjoyed. I picked up a $60 lunch order for 2-3 people during a terrible rainstorm to deliver to an on campus building. Between the rain and no parking, no way in hell I take it to the door. I let him know I'm at the building - which would take most of a city block and we start this dance.
> "Yes sir where are you located so I can get close."
> "It's the door at the end of the sidewalk"
> "What door? Which sidewalk sir?"
> ...


And you're proud of this?
??



SushiGirl said:


> Why do you 1 star short trips???


People like you should be deactivated. For your shuffling, possibly prosecuted.

Little time would serve you well. Don't worry, you'll get there sooner or later.
??


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> cherry pickers ruined it?
> im an independent contractor doing due diligence to make sure my blank contract covers my costs + a legal wage per my human & constitutional rights, I dont know about you but *I dont allow myself to be coerced into providing free labor.*


I'd love to know who coerced you to sign up or drive for Uber/lyft. So far nobody has coerced me.


----------



## SushiGirl (Aug 28, 2016)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> cherry pickers ruined it?
> im an independent contractor doing due diligence to make sure my blank contract covers my costs + a legal wage per my human & constitutional rights, I dont know about you but I dont allow myself to be coerced into providing free labor.
> 
> drivers who actually service rides that dont pay $8-10 gross ruined it by dishonoring all the brave people who actually died for labor rights & minimum wages so they wouldn't be exploited for childrens/illegal wages/conditions, drivers that are willing to degrade themselves so they dont have to take a drug test, stick to a schedule, wear a paper hat, say welcome to walmart or do you want fries with that, the seniors & immigrants doing it for self preservation i kinda get the others not so much
> ...


Basically, you just "look out for #1 and screw everyone else." Pretty selfish and self-centered. Always someone who thinks they are better than others. When Dara was talking about "FREEDOM", he meant that we had freedom of when and where to work..not freedom of screwing over other drivers to get what we wanted.

By the way...the poster is right...the ass-wipe cherry pickers are the ones that messed it up. If you had been drivig for longer than a few months then you would know.



reg barclay said:


> I'd love to know who coerced you to sign up or drive for Uber/lyft. So far nobody has coerced me.


Thank you!!


----------



## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Anyway, wondering is this a double standard that only applies to "entitled Uber customers"? Or, can any business, or individual, rip them off because you've established this fact?


It would seem that passengers paying for a paid service are automatically deemed entitled. Whereas drivers who feel they have a right to get paid to sit and do nothing are not. Go figure :confusion:.


----------



## SushiGirl (Aug 28, 2016)

Dropking said:


> I do it routinely for pax who take longer than two minutes to get their asses out on the curb, and are going somewhere I don't 'want to go. Prolly amounts to 1 a day. For pax who are on the curb but going somewhere I don't wanna go, I do them the courtesy of canceling the ride ASAP and moving on.


They are going where "you dont want to go"????? WTH is up with that?? Are you kidding? You need to look into some other form of work that centers around just YOU. BTW, "prolly" tells me all I need know about you.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Love to see you explain your rationale to ajudge sometime. ??


They probably drive Uber on the side too :rollseyes:


----------



## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> Nobody with a van can be intentionally evil ??


We're the opposite of the old cowboy movies. Stay away from white vans that say free ice cream in spray paint.

Black vans on the other hand are just fine.


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

Van politics -o:


----------



## Dropking (Aug 18, 2017)

SushiGirl said:


> They are going where "you dont want to go"????? WTH is up with that?? Are you kidding? You need to look into some other form of work that centers around just YOU. BTW, "prolly" tells me all I need know about you.


You are prolly right.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> So let's see if we all understand this logic of yours. You determine that a good portion, of Uber's customers, are like a subculture. "Leaches" as you call them.
> 
> Moreover, you certify yourself as the "expert" who's able to make this determination. All on your own, you're the "Man" who decides.
> 
> ...


Sir I'm not McDonald's. Pax will be charged for wasting my time. They will not "abuse" my services. Cart full of groceries for a 2 min ride is abusing my time. College kid order pool ride and wait till 10 seconds left to appear is abusing my time. These individuals will be shuffled.

And yes these are the same people that do go into McDonald's and take all the napkins and condiments. If you want to unload groceries for free that's your business.

I do this for money, nothing else in rideshare matters to me. If your so gung-ho about servicing the community, set yourself up a glory hole in the restroom and be done with it.


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

SushiGirl said:


> Basically, you just "look out for #1 and screw everyone else." Pretty selfish and self-centered. Always someone who thinks they are better than others. When Dara was talking about "FREEDOM", he meant that we had freedom of when and where to work..not freedom of screwing over other drivers to get what we wanted.
> 
> By the way...the poster is right...the ass-wipe cherry pickers are the ones that messed it up. If you had been drivig for longer than a few months then you would know.
> 
> ...


yup self preservation one of the crimes brogrammed into the app

divide & conquer baby drivers vs pax, pax vs drivers its not uber lyfts fault for cutting wages to the point 90+% of the x pool tier is human trafficking lol

plus when i cancel i help the less fortunate meet their quota for their "free" rental they live in & the ants can fufill their quests, challenges, streaks, badges, pro status, points, starbucks bogo coupons, rewards theyll never use as well as a loss on the ride all things that interest children i suppose

im only interested in operating a profitable business and since im an adult & can do 3rd grade math I need least $10 gross per ride to do so otherwise i cancel or ignore helping the "community" of "partners" reach their goal of uber diamond & "free" school

me im a "independent contractor"

we have a different defintion of freedom

work for free or less than costs all you want tis your choice i suppose

been driving 5 years 4000+ rides and average $40+ per ride

uber on
no response needed


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Sir I'm not McDonald's. Pax will be charged for wasting my time. They will not "abuse" my services. Cart full of groceries for a 2 min ride is abusing my time. College kid order pool ride and wait till 10 seconds left to appear is abusing my time. These individuals will be shuffled.
> 
> And yes these are the same people that do go into McDonald's and take all the napkins and condiments. If you want to unload groceries for free that's your business.
> 
> I do this for money, nothing else in rideshare matters to me. If your so gung-ho about servicing the community, set yourself up a glory hole in the restroom and be done with it.


You still DON'T get it.  I'm talking about charging someone for services not rendered. It's fraud, pure and simple. Settled law. Any judge would agree.

Also, any company, or corporation, you ever work WILL fire you IMMEDIATELY for this behavior.

If you don't want to unload/load the groceries, no, you don't have to do that. I don't sometimes.

However, if you're charging the lady with groceries and not picking her up, that's blatant fraud. And you know it.

It's dispeccable and sickening. Hope that's not what you're doing. But nobody is saying you have to load groceries.

Most times I do it, not all, out of basic courtesy and manners. Going to continue calling you out on this, because you're dead wrong.

No one is forcing you to drive. Please quit.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> You still DON'T get it. I'm talking about charging someone for services not rendered. It's fraud, pure and simple. Settled law. Any judge would agree.
> 
> Also, any company, or corporation, you ever work WILL fire you IMMEDIATELY for this behavior.
> 
> ...


Many businesses charges a fee for wasting their time.

If I drive to you and you're on some bs, you're going to have to pay the shuffle fee.


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

reg barclay said:


> It would seem that passengers paying for a paid service are automatically deemed entitled. Whereas drivers who feel they have a right to get paid to sit and do nothing are not. Go figure :confusion:.


it would seem i dont get paid till i spend 3-10 minutes and drive 1-5 miles(personally dont go farther than 2.5 from bed but generally speaking) & start trip meaning i dont have to do a damm thing till i start trip per the 13th amendment

i also dont leave my bed couch house till i know its a profitable trip lol but most drivers dont but if i did spend $1-2 gas & 3-10 minutes labor and the "customer" isnt ready for their subsidized chauffer imma get $4 gross for my troubles

if youre not going 10+ miles & tipping $5 cash you are NOT a customer youre a thief using an app to steal from a stranger least in my eyes

but im xl only 90+% of the time and only x at airport for a rematch chance im talkin bout dem other cats lol



SushiGirl said:


> Why do you 1 star short trips???


not going 10+ miles no cash tip 1 star been like that 5 years to let future drivers know so they can make choice on whether they want a short trip non tipper

4.8 or less 10% chance of tip so ignore
4.8+ well thats a 40+% chance of tip which is $5-20 more per hour duh

this a business



reg barclay said:


> I'd love to know who coerced you to sign up or drive for Uber/lyft. So far nobody has coerced me.


i signed up for a 20% cut grandfathered in yet uber takes 50% of minimum fares & now 90% of surges thats fraud deception the blank contract is coercion if i knew details of the contract i would know beforehand if i was being defrauded

threatening to fire over cancelling instead of providing free labor is duress to the desperate and exploitable doesn't make me none its organized crime they deactivate me have a back up account ready to go because they already did it 3 times by accident no notice but always reactivate me days, weeks, one time a month with some lame apology just wake up one day no job for you like the soup nazi haha most drivers that would be devastating

least once a year they literally steal from me readjusting a few fares late at night from weeks or a month ago & notify via a noreply email address no due process, no evidence, no real explanation as 90+% of my trips are all from home and take the same route just steal it....

lol 90+% of x pool tier is coercing morons or desperate into working for free which per the Constitution & human rights you cant agree to even if you wanted, the contracts that dont cover costs are illegal, illegal terms in contracts are not binding & in breach

ny found them guilty & fined them 20+ million saying less than 5% of drivers made what they claimed in recruitment ads thats bait & switch, attenpt to defraud i.e. coersion lol or did you miss that lawsuit the 90k ads switched by judges order & force to 50k to 40k to $30-40 an hour to $25 an hour oh wait all lies its a side hustle, now the commercials are just "opening doors"

judge forced them to stop firing for drivers ignoring because they would coerce ie defraud trick manipulate drivers to drive 20 minutes for a .5 me trip that pays $4 gross and took 30 minutes

the terms i signed up for are no where near the same bait & switched, rates cut 4 times thousands of lies & fraud but since 96% fail by design new drivers dont know lol

geez


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> it would seem i dont get paid till i spend 3-10 minutes and drive 1-5 miles(personally dont go farther than 2.5 from bed but generally speaking) & start trip meaning i dont have to do a damm thing till i start trip per the 13th amendment
> 
> i also dont leave my bed couch house till i know its a profitable trip lol but most drivers dont but if i did spend $1-2 gas & 3-10 minutes labor and the "customer" isnt ready for their subsidized chauffer imma get $4 gross for my troubles
> 
> ...


Dispeccable behavior on your part. You need to be deactivated.

Then some of "you people" want to be employees. They'd be fired ASAP for this.

Sorry, you're wrong on every count. Criminally.


----------



## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> it would seem i dont get paid till i spend 3-10 minutes and drive 1-5 miles(personally dont go farther than 2.5 from bed but generally speaking) & start trip meaning i dont have to do a damm thing till i start trip per the 13th amendment
> 
> i also dont leave my bed couch house till i know its a profitable trip lol but most drivers dont but if i did spend $1-2 gas & 3-10 minutes labor and the "customer" isnt ready for their subsidized chauffer imma get $4 gross for my troubles
> 
> ...


All straw man arguments. Uber is not coercing you to work for them. If you think they are committing fraud then quit and/or take legal action against the company. If a landscaping company offers me $2 per hour to trim lawns for them, I'll just tell them to take a hike. I'm not gonna accept the job, pretend I'm forced to do it, then use it as justification to burgle the houses who's lawns I'm trimming.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> it would seem i dont get paid till i spend 3-10 minutes and drive 1-5 miles(personally dont go farther than 2.5 from bed but generally speaking) & start trip meaning i dont have to do a damm thing till i start trip per the 13th amendment
> 
> i also dont leave my bed couch house till i know its a profitable trip lol but most drivers dont but if i did spend $1-2 gas & 3-10 minutes labor and the "customer" isnt ready for their subsidized chauffer imma get $4 gross for my troubles
> 
> ...


Education level?


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

reg barclay said:


> All straw man arguments. Uber is not coercing you to work for them. If you think they are committing fraud then quit and/or take legal action against the company. If a landscaping company offers me $2 per hour to trim lawns for them, I'll just tell them to take a hike. I'm not gonna accept the job, pretend I'm forced to do it, then use it as justification to burgle the houses who's lawns I'm trimming.


i didnt define the word coerce lol

im not the judge that found them guilty numerous times for numerous criminal acts, violation of laws & fined them forcing them to change practices numerous times

im not the court that found em guilty of running false bait & switch ads coercing people to sign up & fined them forcing them to change the ads

im not the cities banning them for breaking the law

you do know theres laws for companies with less than 10 employees, 100 employess etc right? a landscaper CAN offer you $2 & you can refuse he cant say hell pay ya $10 but when you finish pay you $5 lmao, he cant say hell take 20% then take 50-90% especially in writing lmao

do you broham i do me just fine & if some scumbag said ill give you $20 to cut my lawn & paid me $10 best believe id spend 2$ egg his house another $5 on gas to brown his lawn & make him spend hours & more money then he stole from me

sue someone burning $9000 a minute spending millions a day lobbying lmao
o.k ill get right on it all i need is 1000 johhny cochrans & half a billion dollars for the 4+ years itll take to go thru court

different strokes
uber on
no response needed
i dont see you no mo cuz i no thinki u know what straw man or coerce meens lol


----------



## HPClays (Jun 27, 2016)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> if youre not going 10+ miles & tipping $5 cash you are NOT a customer youre a thief using an app to steal from a stranger least in my eyes


IMO, this is the truth that creates a shuffler. Paxholes are not my customer. They are Uber's/Lyft's customers and they are complicit (just as guilty) of driver exploitation and manipulation. What Uber/Lyft does to drivers is not a public secret. Neither is their complete apathy with regards to driver and rider safety. Any passenger still using the Lyft or Uber apps is openly willing to rip the driver off, and is fair game for shuffling, long-hauling and general games. There is no innocent rider.

Game on.

SO Uber took away cherry picking because of cherry pickers...F you, pay me. Uber took away Destination filters cuz drivers were wisely using them to earn more, F you, pay me. Uber lets paxholes down rate me because I made them pour out their drinks according to the law, F you, pay me. I beg Uber to take away no show cancel fees. See what happens. If you don't have your exit plan from rideshare, YOU'RE AN IDIOT. Take what you can while you can get it. When Uber and Lyft go belly up, Dara, Travis and Logan will still have their mansions and trust funds. They'll just move on to the next.

If you want to donate your vehicle, life and time, people need rides away from Dorian for free. Good luck and have fun with your moral compass. Let me know how long that compass feeds you.


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

might switch to shuffling full time. Got matched with a crazy entitled pax who tried fighting me after I ended the trip lol. Not worth it. Done driving entitled premadonnas around la.not worth it. I’d rather cancel on them.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

HPClays said:


> IMO, this is the truth that creates a shuffler. Paxholes are not my customer. They are Uber's/Lyft's customers and they are complicit (just as guilty) of driver exploitation and manipulation. What Uber/Lyft does to drivers is not a public secret. Neither is their complete apathy with regards to driver and rider safety. Any passenger still using the Lyft or Uber apps is openly willing to rip the driver off, and is fair game for shuffling, long-hauling and general games. There is no innocent rider.
> 
> Game on.
> 
> ...


??????



SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> might switch to shuffling full time. Got matched with a crazy entitled pax who tried fighting me after I ended the trip lol. Not worth it. Done driving entitled premadonnas around la.not worth it. I'd rather cancel on them.


Yeah you try that. You'll be deactivated fast. Very fast.

And I wouldn't come on here bragging about it.


----------



## BoromirStark (May 23, 2019)

OldBay said:


> Do you really make more money shuffling? The only way to know is if you have Pro. Without Pro you have no idea how long the trip is. You could shuffle great airport runs, and there is no chance for tips with shuffle. In my market, keeping the car clean and having good rapport can make those short trips profitable. But that doesn't work in all locales. If you are the kind of car/driver that never gets tipped, maybe shuffling is better for you.


On Fubar, view the trip details of any trip that was shuffled / true cancellation fee trip. As long as the destination street does not null out and display only the ISO-3166-2 code for the destination nation, you will have an idea of where Pax was going.

Of my Fubar shuffles so far, I have only half-"regretted" one shuffle going from central MoCo to downtown Bethesda, i.e. an area more likely to generate requests. But the Chappax is from a demographic that is not likely to tip anyhow.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Education level?


What's yours? And if you're so goddamn smart why are you driving people around for $0.60/mile?


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Chorch said:


> Remember when cleaning fees were easy to get? Now is complicated because of terrible drivers making things up.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Uber will do something about shufflers, and all of us will suffer the consequences.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


Yep. No more cancelation fees.


----------



## BoromirStark (May 23, 2019)

New2This said:


> What's yours? And if you're so goddamn smart why are you driving people around for $0.60/mile?


None, given the elementary school-level of misspelling that makes Drumpf appear like MiamiKid's dear Key West friend Hemingway.


MiamiKid said:


> Dispeccable behavior on your part. You need to be deactivated, guye.


----------



## SushiGirl (Aug 28, 2016)

Dropking said:


> You are prolly right.


Yep...I probably am!!


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

New2This said:


> What's yours? And if you're so goddamn smart why are you driving people around for $0.60/mile?


Extra money, and the flexibility. Happen to love it.

BTW: Uber pays me $1,000/mo on top of my earnings, whether I drive or not.
??


----------



## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> Gotta tell ya, after seeing the attitudes, of drivers, on this forum I've seriously changed my attitude as well.
> 
> Past four years both a driver and rider, and when riding, used to always tip and five stars. Now, even though also a driver, tip very, very selectively.
> 
> ...


20% yikes. And you call yourself a driver. You should be ashamed.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

MiamiKid said:


> Extra money, and the flexibility. Happen to love it.
> 
> BTW: Uber pays me $1,000/mo on top of my earnings, whether I drive or not.
> ??


That's why.

Now, if ya don't like it? QUIT!

Unless it's all you can do.


----------



## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

SushiGirl said:


> They are going where "you dont want to go"????? WTH is up with that?? Are you kidding? You need to look into some other form of work that centers around just YOU. BTW, "prolly" tells me all I need know about you.


Lol prolly haha


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> BTW: Uber pays me $1,000/mo on top of my earnings, whether I drive or not


Recruiting the gullible into this?


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

New2This said:


> Recruiting the gullible into this?


Stop asking your idiotic questions.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Stop asking your idiotic questions.


You made the claim you pull $1000/month from Uber not driving. I was attempting to guess what else it was for.

Being an Uber shill pays that little?


----------



## BoromirStark (May 23, 2019)

New2This said:


> Recruiting the gullible into this?


He claims he has contacts in corporates, but for all we know, he could be a pathological liar. Assuming he is a former employee, since when do former employees (especially non-executives) ever get any stock options post-employment? And, last time I checked neither Miami nor Atlanta had a Fubar corporate office: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article27940432.html


MiamiKid said:


> Stop asking your idiotic questions.


And you stop with your pretentious moral crusading. I take it you would rather hypocritically haul paxholes along routes that could be served better by MARTA and contribute to worsening greenhouse emissions.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

New2This said:


> You made the claim you pull $1000/month from Uber not driving. I was attempting to guess what else it was for.
> 
> Being an Uber shill pays that little?


And that right there shows your education level. People on my level totally understand how I'd have residual income from Uber.

You're not on my level.



BoromirStark said:


> He claims he has contacts in corporates, but for all we know, he could be a pathological liar. Assuming he is a former employee, since when do former employees (especially non-executives) ever get any stock options post-employment? And, last time I checked neither Miami nor Atlanta had a Fubar corporate office: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article27940432.html
> 
> And you stop with your pretentious moral crusading. I take it you would rather hypocritically haul paxholes along routes that could be served better by MARTA and contribute to worsening greenhouse emissions.


Stop driving. We don't need you.


----------



## BoromirStark (May 23, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Stop driving. We don't need you.


Immediate sign of a petulant crybaby who has lost the argument? Resort to temper tantra.


----------



## SushiGirl (Aug 28, 2016)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> it would seem i dont get paid till i spend 3-10 minutes and drive 1-5 miles(personally dont go farther than 2.5 from bed but generally speaking) & start trip meaning i dont have to do a damm thing till i start trip per the 13th amendment
> 
> i also dont leave my bed couch house till i know its a profitable trip lol but most drivers dont but if i did spend $1-2 gas & 3-10 minutes labor and the "customer" isnt ready for their subsidized chauffer imma get $4 gross for my troubles
> 
> ...


I'm more than aware that this is a business but you are acting like a spoiled entitled little brat. You have to take the good with the bad..you are no better than ther rest of us....suck it up. A lot of us, if not most are out here to make money, not play games. I don't get your logic at all of treating people bad because they don't do as "you prefer"...Do you think that the owner of a restaurant tells a customer to get out if they only order a soda?? He runs a business!! Self Centered people such as yourself usually fall down hard but blame others...good luck!! LOLOLOLOL


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

??‍♂
What can I say. I’m with MiamiKid. Non of the excuses make much sense to me.


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

Chorch said:


> ??‍♂
> What can I say. I'm with MiamiKid. Non of the excuses make much sense to me.


Yep. If I get to the point where I have to go out and steal $3 cancelation fees to make $ I'll do something else.


----------



## cumonohito (Feb 13, 2018)

I don't shuffle on purpose, even on short rides, but I do cancel as needed. The job is simple, drive to pin, wait 5 minutes or less for passenger. Rider has 5 minutes to get to me, times up, I move on. Do not complicate it any more. With Uber Pro, I might decide to wait a bit more if it is a longer ride, or if I'm on a consecutive trip bonus. 

Express pool rides are the problematic ones, as rider sometimes do not arrive on time to the designated location, or they are at the opposite corner from where they have to be. They are also the ones that will call and ask you to come to them, bypassing the principle of express pool. It is cheaper because you agree to walk to a designated pick up location.

The constant texter or caller with numerous instructions. The "Where are you?, I don't see you, I'm coming out shortly, I'm still on the train/bus and there are a couple more stops before I get there. I'm at the cashier finishing my order.

The best shuffle story I read was about the driver who had a Walmart pick up. Driver parked in the parking lot an walked with phone in hand to the pin location. He sees his prospective rider puzzled look as he is looking for his uber after getting the I've Arrived text. I wouldn't have done it, but wont deny that I've laughed at it.


----------



## mch (Nov 22, 2018)

cumonohito said:


> I don't shuffle on purpose, even on short rides, but I do cancel as needed. The job is simple, drive to pin, wait 5 minutes or less for passenger. Rider has 5 minutes to get to me, times up, I move on. Do not complicate it any more. With Uber Pro, I might decide to wait a bit more if it is a longer ride, or if I'm on a consecutive trip bonus.
> 
> Express pool rides are the problematic ones, as rider sometimes do not arrive on time to the designated location, or they are at the opposite corner from where they have to be. They are also the ones that will call and ask you to come to them, bypassing the principle of express pool. It is cheaper because you agree to walk to a designated pick up location.
> 
> ...


That's not shuffling(stealing). When the time is up the time is up. Also cancelling when you get a rude call or text. I don't consider that shuffling(stealing). That's just ending a potentially bad ride before it starts.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> Many businesses charges a fee for wasting their time.
> 
> If I drive to you and you're on some bs, you're going to have to pay the shuffle fee.


Nope. Sorry, business doesn't work like that.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

HPClays said:


> They are Uber's/Lyft's customers and they are complicit (just as guilty) of driver exploitation and manipulation


Really? So when I'm a pax I'm responsible for what Uber does/pay/requires/etc? So a pax should only take a taxi to make you happy?

Really? Sounds like you need a real job.


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

cumonohito said:


> I don't shuffle on purpose, even on short rides, but I do cancel as needed. The job is simple, drive to pin, wait 5 minutes or less for passenger. Rider has 5 minutes to get to me, times up, I move on. Do not complicate it any more. With Uber Pro, I might decide to wait a bit more if it is a longer ride, or if I'm on a consecutive trip bonus.
> 
> Express pool rides are the problematic ones, as rider sometimes do not arrive on time to the designated location, or they are at the opposite corner from where they have to be. They are also the ones that will call and ask you to come to them, bypassing the principle of express pool. It is cheaper because you agree to walk to a designated pick up location.
> 
> ...


The "shuffling" you are talking about is not really shuffling.
If in a pool I get a call/ text saying "can you pick me up somewhere else?" I don't answer and I collect the no-show fee. You want X service? Pay for X service,
If passenger doesn't come in 5 minutes, cancel and collect. That's not shuffling. That is a rule.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> You're not on my level.


Thankfully. Your level requires Preparation-H


----------



## HPClays (Jun 27, 2016)

MiamiKid said:


> Nope. Sorry, business doesn't work like that.


With all your high and mighty education and secret inside Uber income, you just don't get it....For the people that shuffle, business does work like that. Nobody is asking you or the Blue Falcon to shuffle. Keep ant-ing away or do whatever you do. Some people are sharing a process of which they enjoy the benefits. They are describing the process as a tool others may decide to incorporate in their personal business model. It has risks and rewards. The cost of Uber and Lyft exploiting us through independent contractor status is that we are all going to play within the rules differently. Uber and Lyft limit their options on policy enforcement by withholding employee status from us. They could run a query and deactivate most shufflers in a matter of hours...but they don't because the don't care and they still earn money from those shufflers.


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> ??????
> 
> 
> Yeah you try that. You'll be deactivated fast. Very fast.
> ...


My exit plan is in place I don't give a ****.


----------



## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

Chorch said:


> ??‍♂
> What can I say. I'm with MiamiKid. Non of the excuses make much sense to me.


They only make sense to the people saying them. According to their logic, everyone here including them, are likely guilty of worker exploitation. Since pretty much everyone here buys something somewhere that was produced in working conditions much worse than U/L. According to that logic, people could scam them because they buy sneakers and phones etc, that were produced with unfair labor. Except that if they ordered a product online, and didn't receive it, but were charged for placing the order, and told that it was justified because the seller wouldn't make enough money on it, they'd be the first to moan.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> My exit plan is in place I don't give a @@@@.


Good. Hope you leave soon.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> My exit plan is in place I don't give a @@@@.


Be sure to cash out the Shuffles ?


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

New2This said:


> Be sure to cash out the Shuffles ?


I will don't worry



MiamiKid said:


> Good. Hope you leave soon.


The sooner the better.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

HPClays said:


> With all your high and mighty education and secret inside Uber income, you just don't get it....For the people that shuffle, business does work like that. Nobody is asking you or the Blue Falcon to shuffle. Keep ant-ing away or do whatever you do. Some people are sharing a process of which they enjoy the benefits. They are describing the process as a tool others may decide to incorporate in their personal business model. It has risks and rewards. The cost of Uber and Lyft exploiting us through independent contractor status is that we are all going to play within the rules differently. Uber and Lyft limit their options on policy enforcement by withholding employee status from us. They could run a query and deactivate most shufflers in a matter of hours...but they don't because the don't care and they still earn money from those shufflers.


You do not know business. "You people" will never be part of the business crowd.

Have fun with your lower class, grunt level scams. You're a different class of people.

And you'll stay there. ?


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> You do not know business. "You people" will never be part of the business crowd.
> 
> Have fun with your lower class, grunt level scams. You're a different class of people.
> 
> And you'll stay there. ?


I have a bachelors in computer information systems which is a part of the business school where I graduated from. Trust me I know business. I'm here to do business. I'm a proud shuffler. Shuffling is my new business.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

It's not shuffling, it's a mistake, GPS issue, emergency vehicle blocking the road, vandals, stalled car, homeless person in the intersection.

Just like these companies listened to the drivers when they lowered pay and took away prime time.

Pro tip: wrapping your phone in a couple of Mylar balloons protects you from unecessary radiation while you are safely parked and logged out of the app napping in between rides.


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

flataffect said:


>


Yes!


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I have a bachelors in computer information systems which is a part of the business school where I graduated from. Trust me I know business. I'm here to do business. I'm a proud shuffler. Shuffling is my new business.


Doubt you have any kind of degree. Shuffling is not accepted in the business world.

In fact, anyone who participates in international, lowlife shuffling, is nothing but a PUNK!
????


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

SushiGirl said:


> I'm more than aware that this is a business but you are acting like a spoiled entitled little brat. You have to take the good with the bad..you are no better than ther rest of us....suck it up. A lot of us, if not most are out here to make money, not play games. I don't get your logic at all of treating people bad because they don't do as "you prefer"...Do you think that the owner of a restaurant tells a customer to get out if they only order a soda?? He runs a business!! Self Centered people such as yourself usually fall down hard but blame others...good luck!! LOLOLOLOL


nope sorry i understand all rides shouldn't be long rides to the airport but NOT ONE should cause me to lose money or work for free DATS ILLEGAL i Excercise my human rights not to work for free, I can do 3rd grade math less than $10 gross = FREE

we are NOT the same I am better than you, if a homeless person goes into a busy restaurant and sits at a table with 1 soda for hours & paying customers come in needing that table homeless loser will be asked to leave

if the restaurant empty the owner might let it slide but after a while that customer will no longer be wanted as they are costing the owner money

call me spoiled ill be that its better than disrespecting myself & those who died fir labor rights working for illegal wages

i am the owner of my car if i dont like anything you do its gtfo, ignore, cancel periodt

i get the details of my contract before i start my car, i dont idle or circle if my pretext dont get a response i find worthy before i put my pants on and head out my door its a cancel i can wait for a better one im in bed or on the couch its MY RIGHT to do so

other drivers in my market are competition my enemy, riders not going 10+ miles are my enemy, the app trying to trick me is my enemy its war its why i average $40+ per ride & 96% fail averaging $4

they should be grateful for my scraps ignores cancels they fufil their coveted quests, streaks, challenges, quotas they have glorious diamond doo doo status because of me, they get rewarded with humongous discounts on auto repairs because of me, they get free school and badges because of me, its because of me they get a rental car to live in, because of me they get 1.5% off on gas, they get bogo Starbucks coupons cuz of me, i bless them with all the 4.8 or less non tippers, i give them purpose

4000+ rides less than 20 cancel fees its not really my thing but if stolen from will steal back, i ignore over 90+% cancel over 30+% idgaf i dont work for free ive been xl only for 4.5 outta 5 years because im not desperate or stupid

im not a millionaire my mama gave me $2 in 1985 to deliver trash 200 feet to the dumpster wtf is wrong with yall? lmao i do not deliver hundreds of pounds miles for $4-10GROSS you dont resoect yourselves thats why riders & uber lyft dont respect you

i will not drive for a loss i was good before uber will be good after

get it how you live i dont pray for your downfall i pray someone gives you a math lesson like $4-$4 is zero $6-$4 is $2 $8-$4 is $4 $10-$4 is $6 all less than minimum wage all what excites a child


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Doubt you have any kind of degree. Shuffling is not accepted in the business world.
> 
> In fact, anyone who participates in international, lowlife shuffling, is nothing but a PUNK!
> ????


I can post a picture of my degree if you want. I have no scruples shuffling.



ducktaleswoohoo said:


> nope sorry i understand all rides shouldn't be long rides to the airport but NOT ONE should cause me to lose money or work for free DATS ILLEGAL i Excercise my human rights not to work for free, I can do 3rd grade math less than $10 gross = FREE
> 
> we are NOT the same I am better than you, if a homeless person goes into a busy restaurant and sits at a table with 1 soda for hours & paying customers come in needing that table homeless loser will be asked to leave
> 
> ...


This is what it boils down to imo. I feel like I'm wearing a dunce cap anytime I take a short trip losing money in the process. I rather ****(over) then get ****ed.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> nope sorry i understand all rides shouldn't be long rides to the airport but NOT ONE should cause me to lose money or work for free DATS ILLEGAL i Excercise my human rights not to work for free, I can do 3rd grade math less than $10 gross = FREE
> 
> we are NOT the same I am better than you, if a homeless person goes into a busy restaurant and sits at a table with 1 soda for hours & paying customers come in needing that table homeless loser will be asked to leave
> 
> ...


You're rationalizing fraudulent behavior.

Nobody is forcing to drive. You're free to quit.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> You're rationalizing fraudulent behavior.
> 
> Nobody is forcing to drive. You're free to quit.


By continuing to drive like a goody-two-shoes schnook chump, you rationalize Uber and Lyft's fraudulent and predatory behavior.


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

flataffect said:


> By continuing to drive like a goody-two-shoes schnook chump, you rationalize Uber and Lyft's fraudulent and predatory behavior.


This. Fight back don't just bend over and take it.


----------



## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I can post a picture of my degree if you want. I have no scruples shuffling.


Dude... there is no point in arguing with people who keep changing the goalposts of the discussion and use all sorts of emotional tactics/low blows to hit you down and wear you out when you don't see their point of view lol. Because they want to win. They want to pee further than you.



New2This said:


> I want this thread to break SoyBoy narc thread so keep the Shuffles coming


But as @New2This says, this is narc territory and will be pretty good popcorn fodder for entertainment, so keep it going. :biggrin: Dude, where is that thread?


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> Finally got my husband on board with shuffling. We drove around in his car tonight ?
> View attachment 351755


Holy shit. They pay $5 for a no show. That's amazing. I need to get reactivated on Lyft.


----------



## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

ariel5466 said:


> Finally got my husband on board with shuffling. We drove around in his car tonight ?
> View attachment 351755


"Pizza night, dear? Let's go out and get some. Do some shuffling exercises to pay for it. 4 Lyfts would be good. Even better if they're scheduled pings. Heck, 4 scheduled shuffles and we can do a stop for ice cream too!"


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

ariel5466 said:


> Finally got my husband on board with shuffling. We drove around in his car tonight ?
> View attachment 351755












I couldn't be prouder if you cured cancer


----------



## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Holy shit. They pay $5 for a no show. That's amazing. I need to get reactivated on Lyft.


If I'm not wrong, Lyft scheduled shuffles are $10 a crack. Yer missin' out, dude.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Holy shit. They pay $5 for a no show. That's amazing. I need to get reactivated on Lyft.


Even more in some markets.

We decided to make this a regular thing. We've been having issues and are trying to get back on track by having regular date nights. Shuffling while riding in his car is something we can do together that'll also pay for our dinner. Shuffling is saving my marriage! ???


----------



## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

ariel5466 said:


> Even more in some markets.
> 
> We decided to make this a regular thing. We've been having issues and are trying to get back on track by having regular date nights. Shuffling while riding in his car is something we can do together that'll also pay for our dinner. Shuffling is saving my marriage! ???


Shhhh. Beware someone who will say that it ain't good for business and you ought to be deactivated, because...

HOW DARE YOU SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE AT THE EXPENSE OF THESE POOR CUSTOMERS/SHUFFLEES?! THIS IS NOT HOW YOU DO BUSINESS. I HAVE CONTACTS IN CORPORATE. THEY SHALL KNOW OF YOUR SHENANIGANS AND YOU WILL BE DEACTIVATED yada yada yawn I got it oops *ignore*

But seriously, you should get on the source of the $1k/month residual income. And add on some shuffling to that. Richard Turner style:






Even Penn and Teller were suitably impressed.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

When you call, leave the phone on speaker, just ask an imaginary person outside the window things like “can I get around you?” “How much longer” “do you know a
detour” “I have an important pickup just a block away can you please let me by?” Honk the horn two or three times.

Put the call on hold and call again, let them juggle back and forth between calls to kill a minute towards the end of the timer.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

flataffect said:


> When you call, leave the phone on speaker, just ask an imaginary person outside the window things like "can I get around you?" "How much longer" "do you know a
> detour" "I have an important pickup just a block away can you please let me by?" Honk the horn two or three times.
> 
> Put the call on hold and call again, let them juggle back and forth between calls to kill a minute towards the end of the timer.
> ...


I am in awe


----------



## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

sporadic said:


> If I'm not wrong, Lyft scheduled shuffles are $10 a crack. Yer missin' out, dude.


Wow maybe paying money for an inspection isn't so bad an idea.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Wow maybe paying money for an inspection isn't so bad an idea.


How much is the inspection?


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## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

New2This said:


> I am in awe
> 
> View attachment 351767


No one complains if they truly believe that you were fighting like hell to pick them up.

While still on speaker, knock the microphone with your hands, sound worried while talking to yourself this time, say "ahh let's see here, dammit" "Ok, let's see here, turning around" "this damn GPS"


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

flataffect said:


> No one complains if they truly believe that you were fighting like hell to pick them up.
> 
> View attachment 351777


There we go lol. I think an inspection costs $7. I get paid in pennies so every dollar counts lol.


----------



## TheDevilisaParttimer (Jan 2, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Nope. Sorry, business doesn't work like that.





MiamiKid said:


> Nope. Sorry, business doesn't work like that.


Go to the ER with a headache and see if they don't charge you.


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Troll handle


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

flataffect said:


> By continuing to drive like a goody-two-shoes schnook chump, you rationalize Uber and Lyft's fraudulent and predatory behavior.


Nope. Basic business and manners.

We're from different worlds. Every one of your statements makes you appear less educated, without any class whatsoever.

And you don't even see it. That what's wrong with "you people".

Why don't you show these posts to prospective employers? You won't.

Reason: Not one single employer would even consider hiring you.

Shuffling is for cowardly PUNKS!
?

Enjoy your life.
?



Amos69 said:


> Troll handle


Speak for yourself.


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Wow maybe paying money for an inspection isn't so bad an idea.


these negligent criminals dont verify inspection forms, fill it out yourself

theres not even a section for the auto shops phone number you think uber lyft snail mails or visits the autoshop?

theres no duplicate for the shop anyway at most they might have a receipt

uber least fakes like they do and will wait an hour or day after aprooving, lyfts auto bot aprooves it in less than a min even seconds after you upload it

half the cars in an airport lot wouldn't pass inspection on a glance of tires alone


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## czervik7 (Oct 16, 2015)

Leander Driver said:


> Why would you rate a pax lower than a 5 simply because they didn't tip...remember karma's s a @@@@@.


You're new, right?



MiamiKid said:


> Gotta tell ya, after seeing the attitudes, of drivers, on this forum I've seriously changed my attitude as well.
> 
> Past four years both a driver and rider, and when riding, used to always tip and five stars. Now, even though also a driver, tip very, very selectively.
> 
> Have gone from 98% to around 20%. Reading about intentional shuffling makes me sick to my stomach. Dispeccable.


I doubt you ever tip, because no one would "tip very selectively." If you're a service worker and you don't tip other service workers...well that just makes you a piece of hypocritical garbage.


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## Leander Driver (Aug 16, 2019)

czervik7 said:


> You're new, right?
> 
> 
> I doubt you ever tip, because no one would "tip very selectively." If you're a service worker and you don't tip other service workers...well that just makes you a piece of hypocritical garbage.


Maybe the person just did not have the extra money to tip that day. Life happens...that does not mean that person never would tip...so again why would you rate a person low simply because they did not tip. I can understand if they had a bad attitude, made you wait or slammed your door but not tipping should not be a reason to rate low.


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## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

czervik7 said:


> You're new, right?
> 
> 
> I doubt you ever tip, because no one would "tip very selectively." If you're a service worker and you don't tip other service workers...well that just makes you a piece of hypocritical garbage.


Take Uber's side that tips are built in and voluntary. You have ZERO clue how I run my business.

Am a driver and provide good customer service. And any driver who down rates, a customer, for not tipping in cash, is SCUM!

Hope they get deactivated. Many drivers, particularly those on this forum, are lower class, uneducated grunts who don't deserve minimum wage let alone a tip.
?


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## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

Leander Driver said:


> Maybe the person just did not have the extra money to tip that day. Life happens...that does not mean that person never would tip...so again why would you rate a person low simply because they did not tip. I can understand if they had a bad attitude, made you wait or slammed your door but not tipping should not be a reason to rate low.


i dont "share" my ride or oxygen with human pieces of trash that dont tip, as a teenager in the 90s would roll up $2 in pennies for the pizza man if thats all i had for a tip

fool me once as they say it won't happen twice 1 star follwed by support request to unmatch so i have it in writing

dont care if its a dollar its the principal taxi turvey is a 1950s popeys cartoon where Brutus was stealing Popeyes fares "because hes a healthy tipper" its customary in amerikkka & has been for over half a century






quotes at 1:50

dont tip for human delivery at 41% off subsidy for miles but tip for pizza, plate, bottle delivery marked up 3000+% 100 feet haha gtfo my car & life scum which person had your life in their kiteral hands?

its for the "community" the next driver sees the rating & can do due diligence and gets to choose to ignore or accept a short trip no tipping piece of garbage that knows exactly what they are doing by now if they dont tip & have known for years, poor people not stupid just poor theyre using an app to purposefully steal from a stranger, they dont even have friends ir family that will give them rides force $5-10 gtfoh dey know dey know dey know


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## czervik7 (Oct 16, 2015)

SushiGirl said:


> Basically, you just "look out for #1 and screw everyone else." Pretty selfish and self-centered. Always someone who thinks they are better than others. When Dara was talking about "FREEDOM", he meant that we had freedom of when and where to work..not freedom of screwing over other drivers to get what we wanted.
> 
> By the way...the poster is right...the ass-wipe cherry pickers are the ones that messed it up. If you had been drivig for longer than a few months then you would know.
> 
> ...


I don't know about you, but I've been driving for over 4 years and have never seen anyone's destination or trip duration. But I ALWAYS cherrypick now. I just have to use the the limited info I'm given. What time and day is it, where is the pickup, is it an X or XL. That means no XL pickup at the Walmart or in bad neighborhoods because that's just 20 bags of groceries or 2 babies without car seats. No school pickups - unaccompanied minors I have to cancel on and not get paid because I have to fight Uber on it every time.

It also means I go to corporate areas and hotel areas because I will more likely get an airport ride and then a rematch. If you're acccepting every ride and not cancelling low percentage rides how are you making any money? In my market the pings can be fewer and farther between. I don't lose money if my car is shut off. I lose money on low percentage rides that net me $3.20.

I'm also not shuffling. I've had riders who were shuffled. They've called Uber. I have no idea what Uber does about it. I just know I'd be the one who is deactivated for it.



MiamiKid said:


> Take Uber's side that tips are built in and voluntary. You have ZERO clue how I run my business.
> 
> Am a driver and provide good customer service. And any driver who down rates, a customer, for not tipping in cash, is SCUM!
> 
> ...


How can you downrate an Uber pax who doesn't tip? You don't know if they're tipping until after you rated them. When they used to let us amend our ratings, yeah I downrated the non-tippers to a 4. Why? Because they're like you. They're "selective."

So, you accept my premise that you're a hypocrite for not tipping. Why would anyone on this forum care about your opinion.


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## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

czervik7 said:


> I don't know about you, but I've been driving for over 4 years and have never seen anyone's destination or trip duration. But I ALWAYS cherrypick now. I just have to use the the limited info I'm given. What time and day is it, where is the pickup, is it an X or XL. That means no XL pickup at the Walmart or in bad neighborhoods because that's just 20 bags of groceries or 2 babies without car seats. No school pickups - unaccompanied minors I have to cancel on and not get paid because I have to fight Uber on it every time.
> 
> It also means I go to corporate areas and hotel areas because I will more likely get an airport ride and then a rematch. If you're acccepting every ride and not cancelling low percentage rides how are you making any money? In my market the pings can be fewer and farther between. I don't lose money if my car is shut off. I lose money on low percentage rides that net me $3.20.
> 
> ...


if they don't cash tip on x or pool tiers youre not getting a tip & if you do ef em for making you "share" tips with the irs & putting it on record because carrying cash is a "burden" is to heavy or cause "anxiety" lol

no cash tip ride didnt go 10 miles is auto 1 star for over 4 years even on xl

wait longer next time for a non local ant destined to fail, local cash tippers get a card & text me next time to cut out the criminal middlemen trying to rob both of us, they get it

& you can do lots at home like smoke bowls watch squawk box, get up, first take, take dumps, take showers, eat, post on up, get some lovin all while playing ghost car degrading the service passing the crap off to the super ants that have rentals, quotas, badges, & diamond status to maintain

i don't mind waiting hours for pings costs me none & its usually a $70+ trip that takes little over an hour round trip on x it nets me $30 haha no thanks i can wait and its more & more x pax taking xl now because its no rematch early mornings so the ants netting less than 15 an hour after idling, circling, commuting here, im in bed no costs getting quadruple for the same ride less expenses


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Lissetti said:


> As far as Uber is concerned, they used to show us the destinations of pax rides until the cherry pickers ruined it by leaving the short rides standing at the curb and only taking the long hauls.


If Uber wants to play the IC game, then an IC deserves all the information, end of story.

This goes on in the "Real World" too. As a supplier to large corporations (day job) there are products that are profitable and products that aren't. Suppliers aren't going to volunteer to provide money losing products. The way this is solved in the "Real World" is the buyer will make sure the supplier gets enough profitable business to "eat the dog".

Uber could take the normal approach to solve this by ensuring those that take the crap rides then get good offers to make up for it. Instead, Uber creates bad relationships by hiding information and trying to trick drivers into bad rides. It's the opposite of the "normal" way of maintaining good business relationships.


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## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> Nope. Basic business and manners.
> 
> We're from different worlds. Every one of your statements makes you appear less educated, without any class whatsoever.
> 
> ...


Look up the term gray-market. Then tell me that upstanding businessmen always play by the rules weighted against them. You a punk.


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## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

sporadic said:


> HOW DARE YOU SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE AT THE EXPENSE OF THESE POOR CUSTOMERS/SHUFFLEES?! THIS IS NOT HOW YOU DO BUSINESS. I HAVE CONTACTS IN CORPORATE. THEY SHALL KNOW OF YOUR SHENANIGANS AND YOU WILL BE DEACTIVATED yada yada yawn I got it oops *ignore*
> style:


That's so low. It is not "how dare you save your marriage at expense of these customers".

Is: "there are other ways to saving a marriage".

Question: how do you know if that person you just shuffled wasn't on its way to saving his/her own marriage?
"S/he can take another uber".
Maybe those 5 minutes s/he missed for being shuffled, are crucial.

If you believe _the end justify the means_, go ahead. Live your life that way. I guess you also believe we should go to war for world peace ??‍♂



Seamus said:


> If Uber wants to play the IC game, then an IC deserves all the information, end of story.


Ummm.... you go into a contract with UBER, not the rider. They tell you the terms. You take it or not.


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## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

Chorch said:


> That's so low. It is not "how dare you save your marriage at expense of these customers".
> 
> Is: "there are other ways to saving a marriage".
> 
> ...


Uber gets into contracts with me. I adjudicate and hear appeals on all disputes. You're doing it wrong.


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

Seamus said:


> If Uber wants to play the IC game, then an IC deserves all the information, end of story.
> 
> This goes on in the "Real World" too. As a supplier to large corporations (day job) there are products that are profitable and products that aren't. Suppliers aren't going to volunteer to provide money losing products. The way this is solved in the "Real World" is the buyer will make sure the supplier gets enough profitable business to "eat the dog".
> 
> Uber could take the normal approach to solve this by ensuring those that take the crap rides then get good offers to make up for it. Instead, Uber creates bad relationships by hiding information and trying to trick drivers into bad rides. It's the opposite of the "normal" way of maintaining good business relationships.


It used to be that when I got a few crap rides in a row, Uber would reward me with a really good one. Now it seems when I get crap rides one after the other, the only way I can get out of that is to shut off my app and either move to another area or go home and try again another day.

Maybe its because I'm no longer a green Ant and I no longer drive one of their Xchange Lease cars since June of 2018, and drive my own car. Maybe its because after completing over 5100 rides since 2016, they no longer have as much use for me.

Don't know but after not driving regularly since spring of this year and not driving at all since June, they sure want me back some type of way. I don't understand this since I never put up with entitled pax and don't suffer fools lightly.

(Yes I understand this offer is about $12. an hour. In Seattle minimum wage is $16. an hour.)


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## ZenUber (Feb 11, 2019)

3.75 said:


> They pretty much have already, I've seen it where you do a legit cancel and they take away the money right after it happens. You then have to call the customer service line to get it back. It's a pain but better that being put in other situations.


Was that on Uber or Lyft. And what is your cancel rate?


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Seamus said:


> This goes on in the "Real World" too. As a supplier to large corporations (day job) there are products that are profitable and products that aren't. Suppliers aren't going to volunteer to provide money losing products. *The way this is solved in the "Real World" is the buyer will make sure the supplier gets enough profitable business to "eat the dog".*


I actually think thats how the algo works. In my market, if I decline or cancel trips, the algo goes dark. Better to take unprofitable trips as there is a better chance of getting a good one.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Chorch said:


> Ummm.... you go into a contract with UBER, not the rider. They tell you the terms. You take it or not.


I have no idea what you are trying to say. I am talking about the relationship between Uber and the Driver. The point is they withhold full disclosure of the "offer". _"You take it or not". _Exactly why my AR hovers around 17%.



OldBay said:


> I actually think thats how the algo works. In my market, if I decline or cancel trips, the algo goes dark. Better to take unprofitable trips as there is a better chance of getting a good one.


I'm saying this in all seriousness,That is exactly what they would like you to believe. It is how they manipulate behavior. You would be surprised to learn that some of those that make the most have low AR rates.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Lissetti said:


> It used to be that when I got a few crap rides in a row, Uber would reward me with a really good one. Now it seems when I get crap rides one after the other, the only way I can get out of that is to shut off my app and either move to another area or go home and try again another day.
> 
> Maybe its because I'm no longer a green Ant and I no longer drive one of their Xchange Lease cars since June of 2018, and drive my own car. Maybe its because after completing over 5100 rides since 2016, they no longer have as much use for me.
> 
> ...


Those offers are total BS. If you happen to make $600 or more doing those 50 rides they don't give you shit. They only make up the difference if you don't make that much.



OldBay said:


> I actually think thats how the algo works. In my market, if I decline or cancel trips, the algo goes dark. Better to take unprofitable trips as there is a better chance of getting a good one.


That's what they want you to think.


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## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

ariel5466 said:


> Those offers are total BS. If you happen to make $600 or more doing those 50 rides they don't give you shit. They only make up the difference if you don't make that much.


Oh I know that. I have a day job so it's not about the money. Too much has changed with Uber since I left that I'm unfamiliar with. Comfort Rides? Uber Silent? I figure if I'm going to post here I should get back out there to figure out what you guys are talking about with some of these new features. I just don't understand why I'm getting that offer when I drove as recently as June.

Plus I could use the spending money when I come out to DC to see you guys.?


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Lissetti said:


> Oh I know that. I have a day job so it's not about the money. Too much has changed with Uber since I left that I'm unfamiliar with. Comfort Rides? Uber Silent? I figure if I'm going to post here I should get back out there to figure out what you guys are talking about with some of these new features. I just don't understand why I'm getting that offer when I drove as recently as June.


I'm sure they're just trying to play mind games with you. Might have something to do with summer coming to an end. I just started getting consecutive trip promos for the first time... And it's an extra $3.50 for a 3 ride Streak ?


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## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)




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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Seamus said:


> I'm saying this in all seriousness,That is exactly what they would like you to believe. It is how they manipulate behavior. You would be surprised to learn that some of those that make the most have low AR rates.


Its possible. I have been making 23+/hr average (before expenses), month over month, and it may be inching up as I get better. (This is between .80 and .60/mi zones) Sometimes I have 35/hr days, but its dragged down by periods of throttling. I record time from when I leave the driveway to when I return. None of this "sitting at home cherrypicking trips". My hourly rate is based on actual time with the app on. If someone cherrypicks for two hours, then gets a $60 trip that takes an hour, in my book that is $20/hr.

Are people in my area making more? idk. I'm making enough. This is just a stopgap for me, not a career. If someone told me I could make $2/hr more by screwing over alot of people, I wouldn't take it. OTH, if I was making 15/hr and I had no other job options, I might consider it.


----------



## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

Chorch said:


> That's so low. It is not "how dare you save your marriage at expense of these customers".
> 
> Is: "there are other ways to saving a marriage".
> 
> ...


illegal terms in contracts are not binding, ambiguity in them benefits go to the party that didn't draft it

you cannot agree to work for free per the 13th amendment of the United States constitution & article 23 of international recognized human rights

contracts not going 10+ miles are in breach they are illegal they are not binding any 3rd grader can verify the math

blank contracts are also not binding, im not being paid till i start trip up until then no one on the planet has Dominion over what I do periodt, once i get my details and do my due diligence as "an owner of my own business with the freedom to work whenever i want" per dara k the ceo & find out the contract requires free labor or a wage a child in the 1970s would get all tingly over I may cancel with zero repercussions per those constitutional & human rights.

its not my fault i have to start trip to get those details or uber lyft sends blank contracts, but if you know how to screen you can get those details without moving an inch, spending money, providing free labor to do so.



Seamus said:


> If Uber wants to play the IC game, then an IC deserves all the information, end of story.
> 
> This goes on in the "Real World" too. As a supplier to large corporations (day job) there are products that are profitable and products that aren't. Suppliers aren't going to volunteer to provide money losing products. The way this is solved in the "Real World" is the buyer will make sure the supplier gets enough profitable business to "eat the dog".
> 
> Uber could take the normal approach to solve this by ensuring those that take the crap rides then get good offers to make up for it. Instead, Uber creates bad relationships by hiding information and trying to trick drivers into bad rides. It's the opposite of the "normal" way of maintaining good business relationships.


all products are profitable if a company want to use 5 tvs or whatever as loss leaders to get people into the store then design the store so they make other purchases that is their choice its also anti competitive far as im concerned as small businesses really cant compete but it is legal & consumers who do some research can easily identify these item, they can also demonstrate self control & only buy those items

humans & their labor are not loss leaders that would make them slaves, they deserve minimum & regulated wages people died for them and laws exist for this reason


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

OldBay said:


> OTH, if I was making 15/hr and I had no other job options, I might consider it.


What about being paid for walking around a shopping center to run errands and your boss buys you lunch?

For the community.


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

If you think about it, taxis never know where they are going until the passenger is sitting inside the vehicle and says “I’m going to 123 Avenue”...


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

Chorch said:


> If you think about it, taxis never know where they are going until the passenger is sitting inside the vehicle and says "I'm going to 123 Avenue"...


I think taxi drivers have a minimum wage.


----------



## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)

I've never been a shuffle-or, but possibly was a shuffle-ee as a Lyft rider. Was I?

I call for a ride. A car about 5 minutes away accepts. Car never moves. 10 minutes go by. Car never moves. I cancel and use the Uber rider app to get a car.

Lyft charges me a cancellation fee. I protest via the app. Receive a canned response from a machine effectively blaming me for not canceling in time (ADVANTAGE: driver). I have to then escalate the incident for review by a human. Lyft then refunds cancellation fee.


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## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

ducktaleswoohoo said:


> illegal terms in contracts are not binding, ambiguity in them benefits go to the party that didn't draft it
> 
> you cannot agree to work for free per the 13th amendment of the United States constitution & article 23 of international recognized human rights


No one asks you to work for free. As an IC you know your expenses and how much does it take to do a job. If it doesn't work, don't do it. Remember that the contract is between you and Uber, not the riders. Uber tells you "I pay XX per mile and minute". You take it or leave it. You are also aware that trips can be 5 blocks long or 500 miles long. No where in the contract says you will be paid per hour.
The example of the lawnmowers was perfect.



ducktaleswoohoo said:


> contracts not going 10+ miles are in breach they are illegal they are not binding any 3rd grader can verify the math


Wrong. I don't know where to start. That is wrong everywhere. This is IC, you are NOT an employee. Plus you get paid per mile. Drive more, make more, drive less, make less.
You propose that Uber pays $10 minimum per hour per driver? No company can face that. It's financially impossible, specially when customers are taking $7 trips.



ducktaleswoohoo said:


> blank contracts are also not binding, im not being paid till i start trip up until then no one on the planet has Dominion over what I do periodt, once i get my details and do my due diligence as "an owner of my own business with the freedom to work whenever i want" per dara k the ceo & find out the contract requires free labor or a wage a child in the 1970s would get all tingly over I may cancel with zero repercussions per those constitutional & human rights.


You are free to cancel. Uber lets you do that. You are not a slave. Now, if I contracted 7 different contractors, and one is an ass, I will probably give better work to the other 6. It's just natural. Happens with normal employees: there's always someone that excels at their job and get gifts.

I don't think we will ever agree, but if I give a service for $3 to someone, how can that someone be held responsible? I am putting the price.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Chorch said:


> As an IC you know your expenses and how much does it take to do a job. If it doesn't work, don't do it. Remember that the contract is between you and Uber, not the riders. Uber tells you "I pay XX per mile and minute". You take it or leave it. You are also aware that trips can be 5 blocks long or 500 miles long. No where in the contract says you will be paid per hour.
> The example of the lawnmowers was perfect.
> 
> I don't think we will ever agree, but if I give a service for $3 to someone, how can that someone be held responsible? I am putting the price.


Except that with Uber/Lyft you don't know details until after you accept. It's Roulette: maybe it'll be a long profitable trip, maybe it'll be a half mile 20 minute minimum fare trip.

There's an app called Roadie that is truly IC. It tells you the details ahead of time like this:










This is how Uber/Lyft should be. If they were then they wouldn't have as many problems as they currently have.



Chorch said:


> You are free to cancel. Uber lets you do that.


Not exactly. You get timeouts and nastygrams threatening deactivation for excessive cancellations.



Chorch said:


> You propose that Uber pays $10 minimum per hour per driver? No company can face that. It's financially impossible, specially when customers are taking $7 investor/driver subsidized artificially low rate trips.


The added part is what you're missing. If they charged what's reasonable to let drivers make money and maintain vehicles rates would rise. Boo ****ing hoo. There's no constitutional right to cheap personal rides.

If they raised rates and paid drivers more, a LOT of their problems wouldn't exist. Acceptance Rate, Shuffling, AB5 etc.


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## ducktaleswoohoo (Aug 28, 2019)

Chorch said:


> If you think about it, taxis never know where they are going until the passenger is sitting inside the vehicle and says "I'm going to 123 Avenue"...


 yup and usually the rider comes to them & dead miles are factored in they slso get 100% if fare with no maintenance & get paid a regulated rate smart people came up with due to 50+ years of experience so they made a minimum living wage and in 1995 the minimum was $6.50 in nyc in 2019 15+ million times per day uber lyft pay $3-4 gross child


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## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

A legit shuffle makes up for a cancel fee that is denied. Amongst other things. A soft count on my end tells me I have about 5000 or more shuffles to catch up for all the grief I had to endure.


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## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

I wonder... if Uber is SO illegal... why don't you just sue them? It's so obvious that everything they do is illegal...

Sue them: you'll make so much money!


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

Chorch said:


> I wonder... if Uber is SO illegal... why don't you just sue them? It's so obvious that everything they do is illegal...
> 
> Sue them: you'll make so much money!


not worth the energy to sue them.


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> not worth the energy to sue them.


You can make at least over 6 figures. For sure. Not worth it? Wow...


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

Chorch said:


> You can make at least over 6 figures. For sure. Not worth it? Wow...


What would I sue for? Technically I have no case. We're considered independent contractors so we are not owed a minimum wage. Uber's business model has protected them from being sued. I should be able too. You too.


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## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

So then there's no illegality? I don't get it.

This whole thread was about how Uber is doing everything illegal....

Alright, gotta drive and loose money. Bye.


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

Chorch said:


> So then there's no illegality? I don't get it.
> 
> This whole thread was about how Uber is doing everything illegal....
> 
> Alright, gotta drive and loose money. Bye.


No this thread was created by me to encourage others to talk about their shuffling. Read the title.


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Chorch said:


> I wonder... if Uber is SO illegal... why don't you just sue them? It's so obvious that everything they do is illegal...
> 
> Sue them: you'll make so much money!


That corporate headquarters in silicon valley (soon to be Texas) has about 4 floors of lawyers.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Chorch said:


> So then there's no illegality? I don't get it.
> 
> This whole thread was about how Uber is doing everything illegal....
> 
> Alright, gotta drive and loose money. Bye.


1. Lose money not loose money

2. I think one of the reasons Uber/Lyft are shelling out $90 million to fight AB5 is if it's retroactive they're screwed


----------



## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Retroactive would be the nuclear approach.

Politician 1: How badly do we want to crater them?
Politician 2: Only the cockroaches will survive?
Politician 1: Retroactive it is.


----------



## Lovelife (May 16, 2019)

I got a ping today and I was already at the location where my pax was. I texted him I have arrived but no response. 5 minute wait time ends and I collect cancel fee. Ten minutes later I get another ping from same pax. I texted him I have arrived. Once again no response. 5 seconds before his 5 minute wait time was up he is calling me. If he had called me sooner I would have picked up but I don't pick up and collect cancel fee again. I don't understand why he would call for ride 10 minutes after first ping and not be ready for 2nd time.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

I was shuffled once.

Guy was brilliant, I request a pick up from my company’s gated warehouse, get the ding that he has arrived, but he’s nowhere in sight. Walked outside of fence to street, not there. I walk back and see that he was backed in, ready to skeedaddle, in the ungated lot behind our warehouse with his foot on the brakes, within 15 yards of the pin location, but nowhere near visible to the typical rube schnook lost in his/her cellphone.

I was going to call, but figured I’d see where the driver takes it. Sure enough, 10 seconds left, driver buries the accelerator and my phone rings once. BOOM I got shuffled.

I explained to Rabib that I was having GPS issues, he refunded me the $5, and I passed along good karma and $5 to a fellow driver! For the community!


----------



## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

Lovelife said:


> I got a ping today and I was already at the location where my pax was. I texted him I have arrived but no response. 5 minute wait time ends and I collect cancel fee. Ten minutes later I get another ping from same pax. I texted him I have arrived. Once again no response. 5 seconds before his 5 minute wait time was up he is calling me. If he had called me sooner I would have picked up but I don't pick up and collect cancel fee again. I don't understand why he would call for ride 10 minutes after first ping and not be ready for 2nd time.


Some people are slow learners. :smiles:


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

flataffect said:


> I was shuffled once.
> 
> Guy was brilliant, I request a pick up from my company's gated warehouse, get the ding that he has arrived, but he's nowhere in sight. Walked outside of fence to street, not there. I walk back and see that he was backed in, ready to skeedaddle, in the ungated lot behind our warehouse with his foot on the brakes, within 15 yards of the pin location, but nowhere near visible to the typical rube schnook lost in his/her cellphone.
> 
> ...


That's how I feel about it. I rarely use Uber as a pax (I think I've used it 4 times in about 4 years) but if I ever got shuffled I'd applaud my would-be driver ?


----------



## 3.75 (Sep 29, 2017)

ZenUber said:


> Was that on Uber or Lyft. And what is your cancel rate?


Uber. I dont pay attention to that stuff.


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Cancellation fees were taken away in Houston for a while. But uber had to reinstate them. Drivers simply stopped waiting AT ALL. Pax were canceled on if they weren't toes on the curb.


Uber should probably reduce the required time for waiting. Five minutes is just giving the passenger way too much rope to hang us with, and serves to perpetuate the act of shuffling as retribution by the driver.

If a passenger was required to be in the car within three minutes, that would make drivers less likely to seek alternative means for compensation. Also, if a pax doesn't make contact with the driver within three minutes, it should be assumed the pax is abandoning a ride.

Too much of the onus is being put on the driver to locate their pickup. That said, any driver found to be intentionally hiding from their passenger, and refusing to accept their calls, should be considered a candidate for deactivation. Both parties have to be acting in good faith whenever there's a problem with a pick-up.

The problem is not complex, and the solution is fairly simple. Respect is a two-way street. It can't be given by just one side all the time.



Lissetti said:


> Uber will catch onto the Shuffle, and re-write their algorithm to deter that practice as well. I'm sure this new feature added to the app will be at a cost to all drivers. Shufflers and non-Shufflers.


The simple fact is that shuffling is not a sustainable practice for anyone serious about improving the many flaws in this industry. If every driver did it on the frequency that is described here, neither Uber nor Lyft would have a customer base within two months.

...And we'd all be looking for jobs somewhere else. Whatever company rose from Uber/Lyft's ashes would be forced -- out of sheer economic necessity -- to plug every loophole that exists in this current moment. It's a slippery slope, and it ruins the type of goodwill needed to ensure the future of rideshare is beneficial to all who are involved.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

rkozy said:


> Both parties have to be acting in good faith whenever there's a problem with a pick-up.


U/L wouldn't recognize good faith if it commandeered a 7 year-old black Lincoln Navigator and drove it up the granite stairs into the lobby of their corporate office on Market or Berry St.


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

flataffect said:


> U/L wouldn't recognize good faith if it commandeered a 7 year-old black Lincoln Navigator and drove it up the granite stairs into the lobby of their corporate office on Market or Berry St.


Probably not. Most passengers aren't scholars on the inner workings of Uber and Lyft's management team, however. They're probably unaware of the damaging friction which exists between the company and its terminally frustrated "driver partners" who chose to play on a badly-tilted field. In fact, most passengers just want a quick, uneventful ride from Point A to Point B. Nothing more.

I constantly try to remind myself that the passenger isn't to blame for the sins of those who run the industry. I WILL hold the passenger accountable for any transgressions they make, be it rude behavior or a lack of respect for my time/property.

I don't blame the passenger for Uber's decision to pay me $2.50 for a ride that only goes ten blocks. If I make the ill-advised call to drive 8 miles for such a worthless fare, that poor decision is entirely on me. I certainly can't blame the passenger for that.


----------



## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

I would be all for a 3 minute timer as @rkozy suggested. Except I will call it the three minute shuffle!

Personally I wish they would get rid of the timer. If I arrive and you are not ready it's a cancel fee.


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> Personally I wish they would get rid of the timer. If I arrive and you are not ready it's a cancel fee.


Uber would have few, if any, customers under those circumstances.

They would also need to dramatically improve the accuracy of their app for plotting the customer's pick-up location. Many times, the app is to blame for improperly located pax. You'd have 70% of their passengers being charged no-show fees because their app was supplying incorrect information to the driver.

For a self-proclaimed technology company, they sure are half-assed about improving their own technology.


----------



## Clevername (Mar 28, 2019)

So if they're underage teenagers at a high school, does it matter if you report them as underage and cancel or should you wait out the 5 minutes and say they didn't show up?


----------



## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

Clevername said:


> So if they're underage teenagers at a high school, does it matter if you report them as underage and cancel or should you wait out the 5 minutes and say they didn't show up?


You "can" cancel immediately, select the correct reason. BUT, often that trip disappears and it is a fight to get paid for it. Screenshot the fare 1st.

The sure-fire way is to wait the 5mins or try to convince pax to cancel.


----------



## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> Nope. Sorry, business doesn't work like that.


I disagree with your sweeping generalization.

I work for a manufacturing company that makes custom engineered systems. We will charge customers up to a 30% order cancellation fee if we've spent a couple/several weeks engineering, even if we haven't purchased a dime's worth of parts to build the system. Yes, businesses sometimes charge customers for wasting time because time is valuable.

So if a driver takes more than 5 minutes to get to the pin, and the customer isn't standing toes on curb, I can't really blame the driver for getting a little creative with cancellation fees.


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Clevername said:


> So if they're underage teenagers at a high school, does it matter if you report them as underage and cancel or should you wait out the 5 minutes and say they didn't show up?


I wait out the five minutes, then select "Unaccompanied Minor" as the reason. That way, you get money for your invested time/gas...and Uber has a report about this rule-breaking pax, which they probably ignore anyway.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Clevername said:


> So if they're underage teenagers at a high school, does it matter if you report them as underage and cancel or should you wait out the 5 minutes and say they didn't show up?


Easiest to wait out the timer then "rider not here" to be sure you get paid since a valid rider wasn't there.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

MadTownUberD said:


> I disagree with your sweeping generalization.
> 
> I work for a manufacturing company that makes custom engineered systems. We will charge customers up to a 30% order cancellation fee if we've spent a couple/several weeks engineering, even if we haven't purchased a dime's worth of parts to build the system. Yes, businesses sometimes charge customers for wasting time because time is valuable.
> 
> So if a driver takes more than 5 minutes to get to the pin, and the customer isn't standing toes on curb, I can't really blame the driver for getting a little creative with cancellation fees.


Nope you're very WRONG!!! It's not the drivers place to do that. They should know their place. I do when driving.

Per terms of the contract, the driver is required to wait the designated amount of time. Period. What I'm seeing on here is BLATANT fraud. Some of the worst I've seen.

And you're a Moderator condoning this behavior?

Disappointing.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> And you're a Moderator condoning this behavior?


Here's one that'll get your panties in a wad: we have Moderators attend our Meetups who Shuffle AT THE MEETUP! OH THE HORROR!

How's your Uber stock after yesterday lol


----------



## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

MadTownUberD said:


> I disagree with your sweeping generalization.
> 
> I work for a manufacturing company that makes custom engineered systems. We will charge customers up to a 30% order cancellation fee if we've spent a couple/several weeks engineering, even if we haven't purchased a dime's worth of parts to build the system. Yes, businesses sometimes charge customers for wasting time because time is valuable.
> 
> So if a driver takes more than 5 minutes to get to the pin, and the customer isn't standing toes on curb, I can't really blame the driver for getting a little creative with cancellation fees.


Most of this thread is not about that kind of cancellation. Everyone agrees that if the driver waits at pax location in good faith for 5 mins, and they don't show, that they deserve a cancellation fee. This thread is mostly talking about deliberately hiding from pax, or not moving in the first place. In the case of your business, if you'd shut down your phones, email, and website, and lock your doors, then charge pax a fee for not picking up their order, I think you'd agree it's not proper business practice.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

reg barclay said:


> Most of this thread is not about that kind of cancellation. Everyone agrees that if the driver waits at pax location in good faith for 5 mins, and they don't show, that they deserve a cancellation fee. This thread is mostly talking about deliberately hiding from pax, or not moving in the first place. In the case of your business, if you'd shut down your phones, email, and website, and lock your doors, then charge pax a fee for not picking up their order, I think you'd agree it's not proper business practice.


Very well stated.



New2This said:


> Here's one that'll get your panties in a wad: we have Moderators attend our Meetups who Shuffle AT THE MEETUP! OH THE HORROR!
> 
> How's your Uber stock after yesterday lol


And you're proud of this behavior? Only making yourself look bad and very unprofessional.

Not very many employers, if any, would hire someone with this attitude.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> And you're proud of this behavior? Only making yourself look bad and very unprofessional.
> 
> Not very many employers, if any, would hire someone with this attitude.


I do this shit part-time. I'm self-employed in my day stuff and don't need to worry about an employer.

In any other endeavor I have great ethics. Uber/Lyft have shown me they'll **** me over in a heartbeat.

Dealing with Uber/Lyft I have ZERO ethics and have ZERO issues with screwing them over anytime I can.

Riders are collateral damage. Sorry not sorry.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

New2This said:


> I do this shit part-time. I'm self-employed in my day stuff and don't need to worry about an employer.
> 
> In any other endeavor I have great ethics. Uber/Lyft have shown me they'll @@@@ me over in a heartbeat.
> 
> ...


Very disappointing to hear and speaks to your character. You're rationalizing and it's wrong. Very wrong. And you know it.

Would like to see you leave Uber, ASAP, and focus on your other businesses that you're ethical in.

Would love to observe some poor soul, in a court of law, using your rationale as a defense. Would be truly entertaining. ?



New2This said:


> I do this shit part-time. I'm self-employed in my day stuff and don't need to worry about an employer.
> 
> In any other endeavor I have great ethics. Uber/Lyft have shown me they'll @@@@ me over in a heartbeat.
> 
> ...


Also, utilize Uber, as a rider, consistently. Used to tip 95% of drivers.

Now, after reading this forum, it's reversed. Tip less than 10% of drivers. Drivers with your attitude do not deserve a tip or minimum wage.

My two cents


----------



## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> Nope you're very WRONG!!! It's not the drivers place to do that. They should know their place. I do when driving.
> 
> Per terms of the contract, the driver is required to wait the designated amount of time. Period. What I'm seeing on here is BLATANT fraud. Some of the worst I've seen.
> 
> ...


I needed a good laugh to get the day started. Thank you! That being said what about the fraud committed by U/L? I can remember when uber paid a lot of money to cover their tracks when they were hacked. As well as several pay cuts that drivers had zero input on. While U/L said otherwise.

Yesterday I had a rider cancel after I was 6 minutes in route. They canceled and Uber denied me a fee. Which I was entitled to under their tos. Yet where is the outcry of fraud?


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Very disappointing to hear and speaks to your character. You're rationalizing and it's wrong. Very wrong. And you know it.
> 
> Would like to see you leave Uber, ASAP, and focus on your other businesses that you're ethical in.
> 
> ...


1. What does what someone writes here have to do with the driver driving you? If you're cheap just own it. You can use whatever rationale you want to be a cheapskate skinflint. You're a cheap fornicator.

2. I like Ubering because it's easy money, especially in sweat pants. The flexibility is nice.

3. I also love ****ing Uber like a Tijuana hooker with Longhauling. I get wood at payouts like this:





































Doing my part for the IPO


----------



## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

New2This said:


> 1. What does what someone writes here have to do with the driver driving you? If you're cheap just own it. You can use whatever rationale you want to be a cheapskate skinflint. You're a cheap fornicator.
> 
> 2. I like Ubering because it's easy money, especially in sweat pants. The flexibility is nice.
> 
> ...


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> View attachment 352255


----------



## jlong105 (Sep 15, 2017)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> I always 1 Star short trips. This shuffling thing has me dying. I've been cracking up for the past 3 hours reading about it. Can't wait for my first day on team shuffle tomorrow. LA PAX be ready I'm coming for that ROY of the year award.


My threshold is the time it takes me to get there. In order to avoid a one star the trip better be longer than the drive there. I don't take over 10 minutes or 15 during slow times.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> I needed a good laugh to get the day started. Thank you! That being said what about the fraud committed by U/L? I can remember when uber paid a lot of money to cover their tracks when they were hacked. As well as several pay cuts that drivers had zero input on. While U/L said otherwise.
> 
> Yesterday I had a rider cancel after I was 6 minutes in route. They canceled and Uber denied me a fee. Which I was entitled to under their tos. Yet where is the outcry of fraud?


You people so don't get it. None of this stuff justifies fraudulent behavior on the part of drivers.

As I mentioned earlier, would LOVE to see "you people" defend this fraud in court. Feel ZERO sympathy for disgruntled drivers. Why?

Because America affords them a PERFECT solution:

QUIT DRIVING

Problem solved. End of story.

My two cents 
?



New2This said:


> 1. What does what someone writes here have to do with the driver driving you? If you're cheap just own it. You can use whatever rationale you want to be a cheapskate skinflint. You're a cheap fornicator.
> 
> 2. I like Ubering because it's easy money, especially in sweat pants. The flexibility is nice.
> 
> ...


We would appreciate it if you'd refrain from bragging about your "illegal activities" on this forum.

Thank you


----------



## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> You people so don't get it. None of this stuff justifies fraudulent behavior on the part of drivers.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, would LOVE to see "you people" defend this fraud in court. Feel ZERO sympathy for disgruntled drivers. Why?
> 
> ...


Nope as I have stated in a previous post. I have about 5000 shuffles to catch up for all the bs u/l put me through. Until I get permanently waitlisted I am an on a mission. Every three rides add a shuffle.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> Nope as I have stated in a previous post. I have about 5000 shuffles to catch up for all the bs u/l put me through. Until I get permanently waitlisted I am an on a mission. Every three rides add a shuffle.


You're a criminal. Turning this over to Corporate.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

doyousensehumor said:


> You "can" cancel immediately, select the correct reason. BUT, often that trip disappears and it is a fight to get paid for it. Screenshot the fare 1st.
> 
> The sure-fire way is to wait the 5mins or try to convince pax to cancel.


So take ten+ minutes of your time to get what is rightfully yours, IF you were able to document it? Fork that, just shuffle them.


----------



## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> You're a criminal. Turning this over to Corporate.


Sign the message with regards!


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

reg barclay said:


> Most of this thread is not about that kind of cancellation. Everyone agrees that if the driver waits at pax location in good faith for 5 mins, and they don't show, that they deserve a cancellation fee. This thread is mostly talking about deliberately hiding from pax, or not moving in the first place. In the case of your business, if you'd shut down your phones, email, and website, and lock your doors, then charge pax a fee for not picking up their order, I think you'd agree it's not proper business practice.





MiamiKid said:


> You're a criminal. Turning this over to Corporate.


They won't do anything. They are crooks. Once they start that jazz, they are open to discovery.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> We would appreciate it if you'd refrain from bragging about your "illegal activities" on this forum.
> 
> Thank you


We? Who's we?

Illegal activities? That, sir, is slanderous. You'll be hearing from my attorney.

Longhauling is PERFECTLY legal. I encourage everyone to Longhaul whenever possible.

When Uber/Lyft changed their TOS they decoupled driver pay from what the rider paid. Riders paid based on a number of factors. Drivers were paid for time/distance of the trip. Uber can't dictate what route I take because that's what an employer would do.

If I go the longest route possible that doesn't change what the rider's paying, that's maximizing my profit per-trip. It also has the added benefit of taking money out of Uber/Lyft's pocket. Win-win.

Making the most money possible is smart business. If you're not Longhauling you're leaving money on the table. That's not smart business. I thought you were Mr. Business lol


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

Most of my rides are like this, without bonus Lyft and I break even. After the bonus (I've gotten as high as $32+ a couple of months back) they end up getting fisted with a handful of steel wool. Which is good. I drove an 80 year-old woman 6 blocks to a doctor's appointment, we talked and we laughed about the great things happening in the rideshare community!












New2This said:


> That's not smart business. I thought you were Mr. Business lol


He's a smart bidnissman. He's all about bidniss.



Uber_Yota_916 said:


> Yet where is the outcry of fraud?


These crybaby slugs are corporate shills, there will only be talk of "community" each instance where U/L intentionally screws drivers.


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

ariel5466 said:


> I'm curious about who's done that center square and how they did it ?


I've received Uber cancel while driving Lyft, but only because i was on route


----------



## Don't swim in pools (Sep 8, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> Dispeccable behavior on your part. You need to be deactivated.
> 
> Then some of "you people" want to be employees. They'd be fired ASAP for this.
> 
> Sorry, you're wrong on every count. Criminally.


Its despicable. Wtf is dispeccable? Lol


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

New2This said:


> We? Who's we? You're sitting on Dara's knob?
> 
> Illegal activities? That, sir, is slanderous. You'll be hearing from my attorney.
> 
> ...


Wasn't even talking about "long hauling". Read the posts and you should be able what we're referring to.

Long hauling is also sleazy; but, don't know about fraud. We're talking about blatant, illegal fraud.

For example, accepting a ride, to the pin, and hiding from the pax. Then, not answering phone or text. Making it impossible for the rider to find you. Then charging the passenger. There's folks, on here, bragging about that.

That is my issue.


Don't swim in pools said:


> Its despicable. Wtf is dispeccable? Lol


Called predictive text dude. WTF?


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Long hauling is also sleazy


How is Longhauling sleazy? It's using Uber's TOS against them. It's smart business, which I thought you were for.

Or is it you don't like it when Uber loses?


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

New2This said:


> How is Longhauling sleazy? It's using Uber's TOS against them. It's smart business, which I thought you were for.
> 
> Or is it you don't like it when Uber loses?


He should have negotiated to get paid per post.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> you should be able what we're referring to


Again who is the "we"?


----------



## jlong105 (Sep 15, 2017)

CJfrom619 said:


> You cant make money canceling rides. $4 is not what your looking for. You want the ride...not to drive to a pickup, wait 5 minutes then collect $4 just to drive to another pickup? Sometimes driver just don't think things through alot.


Except when the ride will be a minimum $2.75 fare. Some places that happens a lot more than others.


----------



## MadTownUberD (Mar 11, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> Nope you're very WRONG!!! It's not the drivers place to do that. They should know their place. I do when driving.
> 
> Per terms of the contract, the driver is required to wait the designated amount of time. Period. What I'm seeing on here is BLATANT fraud. Some of the worst I've seen.
> 
> ...


This is an Uber drivers forum, not a church. I am neither condoning nor condemning it, just saying that I can understand why a driver would be incented to do it, especially given that riders seem to be given less than compelling incentives to be toes on curb. As IC's drivers are able to use discretion about cancellation etc. If they get deactivated for being flagged too many times for suspicious behavior, that's on them too.

I don't think I've ever done a bona fide shuffle. I have, however, driven my car to the pin and canceled after 5 minutes (fulfilling my duty) in a handful of situations that noobs probably would have behaved differently in. That's as much detail as I'm going into here.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

New2This said:


> How is Longhauling sleazy? It's using Uber's TOS against them. It's smart business, which I thought you were for.
> 
> Or is it you don't like it when Uber loses?


A little more seasoned than you I believe. Am ethical and professional. Believe in taking either the fastest route or the way the customer prefers.

Getting sick of this anti customer/Uber rhetoric. Very lower class and unethical.
?



MadTownUberD said:


> This is an Uber drivers forum, not a church. I am neither condoning nor condemning it, just saying that I can understand why a driver would be incented to do it, especially given that riders seem to be given less than compelling incentives to be toes on curb. As IC's drivers are able to use discretion about cancellation etc. If they get deactivated for being flagged too many times for suspicious behavior, that's on them too.
> 
> I don't think I've ever done a bona fide shuffle. I have, however, driven my car to the pin and canceled after 5 minutes (fulfilling my duty) in a handful of situations that noobs probably would have behaved differently in. That's as much detail as I'm going into here.


Not talking about the legit cancels at all.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

This is not what the Puritans want to hear, I know, but picking up a rider who has just been shuffled = Sloppy 2nds.



MiamiKid said:


> A little more seasoned than you I believe. Am ethical and professional. Believe in taking either the fastest route or the way the customer prefers.
> 
> Getting sick of this anti customer/Uber rhetoric. Very lower class and unethical.
> ?
> ...


You can't prove they aren't legit.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> A little more seasoned than you I believe. Am ethical and professional. Believe in taking either the fastest route


The you're not maximizing profit. That's bad business.

I'll put my per-trip average against yours anytime


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

New2This said:


> The you're not maximizing profit. That's bad business.
> 
> I'll put my per-trip average against yours anytime


All about $/hour, mileage. Short, downtown, business and daytime. $/mileage is really great.

Love the back to back, several block trips. It works. You guys can have the long ones.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> Nope as I have stated in a previous post. I have about 5000 shuffles to catch up for all the bs u/l put me through. Until I get permanently waitlisted I am an on a mission. Every three rides add a shuffle.


If you're actually serious, that's enough to get you busted ???. Then, you feel the need to "tee it up", for all to see, multiple times?

? 5,000 shuffles?

Right. Most drivers don't even have that many rides.


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Lissetti said:


> Glad to see we can still keep the debates and discussions on track here.
> 
> As far as Uber is concerned, they used to show us the destinations of pax rides until the cherry pickers ruined it by leaving the short rides standing at the curb and only taking the long hauls.
> 
> Uber will catch onto the Shuffle, and re-write their algorithm to deter that practice as well. I'm sure this new feature added to the app will be at a cost to all drivers. Shufflers and non-Shufflers.


I wonder if Uber shouldn't reinstate the destination information now that they have "recalibrated" mileage and minute rates.

Perhaps a new niche player can turn this to there advantage and structure their model to cater to former cherry pickers. 
Imagine the impact.
Since drivers choose the trip, service for pax should improve markedly. (Water and mint comeback)
Pax will shop the three services, Uber, Lyft and Newbie
Whenever the Newbie driver match is attractive to the pax, Newbie will get the ride. 
Pax will learn that Newbie drivers are the real Pros and that the random matching of Uber and Lyft proves they are the minor leaguers in comparison.

Thaoughts


----------



## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

New2This said:


> The you're not maximizing profit. That's bad business.
> 
> I'll put my per-trip average against yours anytime


You can't win. Not against a $1k/month residual income.



New2This said:


> We? Who's we?
> 
> Illegal activities? That, sir, is slanderous. You'll be hearing from my attorney.
> 
> ...


You can't use logic against shifting goalposts. Or antployees. I'd rather just let them be.

But then again I trust what you're doing. Pavlovian conditioning, like a new SoyBoy thread to beat the original SoyBoy? I still have yet to find it :biggrin:


----------



## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

MiamiKid said:


> If you're actually serious, that's enough to get you busted ???. Then, you feel the need to "tee it up", for all to see, multiple times?
> 
> ? 5,000 shuffles?
> 
> Right. Most drivers don't even have that many rides.


I have almost 2 x that amount of rides. Busted for poor behavior by the pax. ? It's not hard to stick it to people who make you wait.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> I have almost 2 x that amount of rides. Busted for poor behavior by the pax. ? It's not hard to stick it to people who make you wait.


You don't comprehend do you? Or is a total "strawman argument" all you're capable of?

Not talking about the people who make you wait. We all cancel after the timer's up.


----------



## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

@ROY_Doncic , everything you were curious about is in this thread


----------



## Lissetti (Dec 20, 2016)

Diamondraider said:


> I wonder if Uber shouldn't reinstate the destination information now that they have "recalibrated" mileage and minute rates.
> 
> Perhaps a new niche player can turn this to there advantage and structure their model to cater to former cherry pickers.
> Imagine the impact.
> ...


My concerns are that in congested areas or in areas that leaving them would involve paying toll, inner city Pax would find themselves standing on a curb waiting for longer periods of time for a driver who is willing to deal with traffic and tolls to take them out of the area, make minimal pay for a trip that might be over an hour, and with the probability of having to dead head back empty. This will most likely be noobs only who would take these trips, and if the pax doesn't want a noob, then its another problem.

Meanwhile in the city, most of the veteran drivers are too busy accepting short trips on flat surge or trying to earn their Boost.

Likewise the grocery store shoppers. Their ice cream will melt as they stand on the curb waiting for a driver if there's an event in the area that is producing lots of 15+ mile trips.

Uber once told me at a Meet n Greet, that their goal is that every customer has to wait no more than 5 minutes for the nearest available driver. That's what those Boost zones are really about. They are staging the drivers to be in a certain area where they predict a high demand shortly. Same goes for those "You are in an area with high demand. Expect rides shortly" messages.

Uber will never go back to letting drivers see the destinations. They want you here, or over there, so you can be available for the the request that comes in.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Expect rides shortly is complete bs.

I got it in my subdivision, which is out of the way and has little traffic.

It either means nothing, or is a clue they don't want you moving to another area that's already saturated.

Have never gotten a ping when that message.


----------



## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

OldBay said:


> Expect rides shortly is complete bs.
> 
> I got it in my subdivision, which is out of the way and has little traffic.
> 
> ...


I did get "Expect rides shortly" in areas with Eats restaurants. Nonstop pings at lunch/dinner for Eats.

When I switched off Eats, X/XL were (not) surprisingly quiet.


----------



## jhonsbro (Aug 27, 2019)

I always try to do shuffle no matter i succeed or not but will is there


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

jhonsbro said:


> I always try to do shuffle no matter i succeed or not but will is there


Uber will be to on you very soon.


----------



## HPClays (Jun 27, 2016)

flataffect said:


> This is not what the Puritans want to hear, I know, but picking up a rider who has just been shuffled = Sloppy 2nds.


If you pick up a rider that YOU have just shuffled, it's called the Stone Cold Multiplier. When they get in you act like nothing happened. It's basically tipping yourself. When they ask you about the "shuffle" you put on your poker face and tell them about dropping off Marjorie just around the corner. If you can milk an additional tip out of that paxhole, you have achieved God-Mode.

You have your mission, now get out there!

I also don't think it's stressed enough here on this thread: when shuffling, by all means, answer the passengers phone calls. Shuffling needs a soundtrack. Whether it's profanity or pleading, it's like a symphony composed through rideshare apathy.

Next, try shuffling a pool passenger with a pool passenger in the car. Ask the existing passenger: "for a dollar, I'll let you decide whether "Marjorie" gets a ride or not." I think you'll be surprised how many passengers love the thrill of a shuffle.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

HPClays said:


> If you pick up a rider that YOU have just shuffled, it's called the Stone Cold Multiplier. When they get in you act like nothing happened. It's basically tipping yourself. When they ask you about the "shuffle" you put on your poker face and tell them about dropping off Marjorie just around the corner. If you can milk an additional tip out of that paxhole, you have achieved God-Mode.
> 
> You have your mission, now get out there!
> 
> ...


Your tactics are lower class and disgraceful. 
Corporate will hear of this.
?


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Uber is bleeding money.

They can't raise rates because of competition with Lyft.

The only possibility is to lower driver pay (which they are doing) and...

Crack down on shuffling!

If shuffling is a widespread practice, then that is where they are bleeding money.

You better believe they have their best minds tasked with figuring out how to handle the "leakage" of shuffling.

I predict there will be an announcement in the next quarter with some policy changes regarding cancellation fees. Also possibly technology enhancements that only keep the timer running when at the actual pin.

People who shuffle want rideshare to fail. Show of hands, how many shuffle ringleaders are also cabbies and can jump ship when rideshare tanks?


----------



## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

TheDevilisaParttimer said:


> You just need to be hidden in plain sight to shuffle. Pax doesn't need to cancel, the timer runs out.
> 
> Try to be like the ladies below :winking:
> 
> Now if I can only get ariel5466 and Lissetti to do this together ?


So "hidden in plain sight" is simple. Drive your wife's car, show up to the pickup spot one house down. Pax looking for a black Accord. Hmmm. the only car I see is a red Toyota.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

If I was uber CEO, I'd announce a new policy, only one cancellation fee every four hours.

Or only five per week.

I just made Uber profitable. Where is my 200 million?


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

OldBay said:


> If I was uber CEO, I'd announce a new policy, only one cancellation fee every four hours.
> 
> Or only five per week.


So what happens when you work the morning shift and you have multiple kids in an hour trying to get a ride to school? Lots of examples of why your suggestion would be awful, that's just one.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> So what happens when you work the morning shift and you have multiple kids in an hour trying to get a ride to school? Lots of examples of why your suggestion would be awful, that's just one.


Austerity is never fun.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

OldBay said:


> Uber is bleeding money.
> 
> They can't raise rates because of competition with Lyft.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Very well stated.
?



ariel5466 said:


> So what happens when you work the morning shift and you have multiple kids in an hour trying to get a ride to school? Lots of examples of why your suggestion would be awful, that's just one.


Cancelling because of "Unaccompanied Minor" is not what I define as "shuffling" at all. In fact wished it were way easier to do.

Think the complaint, many of us have, regarding shuffling relates to the intentional variety. Like when a driver accepts a ride, drives close enough to the pin to set off timer, and then hides on a side street, etc.

Thereby making it difficult for the rider to find him/her by not responding to texts/calls etc. Then collecting the cancel fee knowing they never intended to pick up the pax.

My concern is that these intentional, fraudulent shuffles will cause Uber to tighten up on all cancellations. Which would be very bad as it would impact legitimate cancellations.

I relate to kids, requesting rides, as I have to cancel at least 5 - 6/week minimum.



kdyrpr said:


> So "hidden in plain sight" is simple. Drive your wife's car, show up to the pickup spot one house down. Pax looking for a black Accord. Hmmm. the only car I see is a red Toyota.


You guys think this, piddly assed, theft is cool?

Pathetic.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Cancelling because of "Unaccompanied Minor" is not what I define as "shuffling" at all.


I agree, that's not a shuffle. But @OldBay just said "cancelation fees," which means legit reasons, too:


OldBay said:


> If I was uber CEO, I'd announce a new policy, only one cancellation fee every four hours.
> 
> Or only five per week.





MiamiKid said:


> My concern is that these intentional, fraudulent shuffles will cause Uber to tighten up on all cancellations. Which would be very bad as it would impact legitimate cancellations.


And if/when that happens I'll stop rideshare. I'm managing to be profitable right now. If I wasn't I'd move on. It's only business, right?


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

ariel5466 said:


> I agree, that's not a shuffle. But @OldBay just said "cancelation fees," which means legit reasons, too:
> 
> And if/when that happens I'll stop rideshare. I'm managing to be profitable right now. If I wasn't I'd move on. It's only business, right?


Agreed. I'll move on as well. Hard enough as it is, already, having to wait out the stupid timer right in front of everyone.

Yup, will be outta here if they tighten up, regardless of the reason.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> Uber will be to on you very soon.


No, they won't be. Why do you try to scare people so much?


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

flataffect said:


> No, they won't be. Why do you try to scare people so much?


Corporate


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Corporate


I'm thinking his "$1000/month residual income" is connected to Uber's stock. The lower it goes the less he gets.

Just another reason to root for the stock to be $2.62


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

New2This said:


> I'm thinking his "$1000/month residual income" is connected to Uber's stock. The lower it goes the less he gets.
> 
> Just another reason to root for the stock to be $2.62


Both stocks are down at the moment.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

TwoFiddyMile said:


> Both stocks are down at the moment.


The rest of the market is up so Uber/Lyft can't just say it's the overall market.

I like to think my Shuffling helps drive the stock down, even a fraction.


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

20% of rides are due to fraud accounts its in the new super pumped book 2 billion im china alone when they were in china

travis k doesn't want friction in the app so no verifying rider accounts, 16 drivers in Brazil were murdered this way, more in mexico

so 20% of shuffles arent even real the spoon doesn't exist

Uber scooters need an i.d. though go figure


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

SuperDumped said:


> 20% of rides are due to fraud accounts its in the new super pumped book 2 billion im china alone when they were in china
> 
> travis k doesn't want friction in the app so no verifying rider accounts, 16 drivers in Brazil were murdered this way, more in mexico
> 
> ...


Right!


----------



## charmer37 (Nov 18, 2016)

OldBay said:


> The reason NOT is because you might be deactivated. There is bad advice given in the forums to thin out the driver pool. I certainly wouldnt start out shuffling, better to establish a good track record.
> 
> Also, there is thinking that completing short money-losing trips is a gateway to being given better trips.
> 
> ...


I always here the term shuffling but never knew what it was, It seems like more Uber drivers do this than on the lyft platform.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

charmer37 said:


> I always here the term shuffling but never knew what it was, It seems like more Uber drivers do this than on the lyft platform.


It's slightly more difficult on Lyft. But the payout is better.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> It's slightly more difficult on Lyft. But the payout is better.
> View attachment 353071


I notice you blocked out the times of the trips so we couldn't see how long it took you to make $20.

I think you're shooting yourself in the foot with the shuffling.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

OldBay said:


> I notice you blocked out the times of the trips so we couldn't see how long it took you to make $20.
> 
> I think you're shooting yourself in the foot with the shuffling.


I blocked out the times so that screenshot can't be traced back to my actual account. But the amount of time that took me is irrelevant. I was "off the clock" at that point, and riding around with my husband in his car. Free money.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> I blocked out the times so that screenshot can't be traced back to my actual account. But the amount of time that took me is irrelevant. I was "off the clock" at that point, and riding around with my husband in his car. Free money.


Do you knock over vending machines too?


----------



## Bluecrab (Oct 3, 2016)

OldBay said:


> People who shuffle want rideshare to fail. Show of hands, ......


Nothin' goes better with BlueCrab than @OldBay I mean it's a better combo then chocolate and peanut butter. So it pains me when @OldBay is close, but still wrong.

We don't want rideshare to fail. We want Uber and Lyft to fail and a new company to enter the market.

You should meet other drivers in your market, you still have tricks to learn.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Bluecrab said:


> You should meet other drivers in your market, you still have tricks to learn.


Lol. First local uber driver I met told me the airport lot was a good idea.

Local drivers aren't going to help me. I'm the competition.

Its working well for me. No one has come out and said they are making more hourly, month over month so I'm not sure there is anything major to learn. Honestly, I don't care if there is unless its some illegal scheme local drivers are running (I've heard this from a pax, actually.)


----------



## HPClays (Jun 27, 2016)

SuperDumped said:


> 20% of rides are due to fraud accounts its in the new super pumped book 2 billion im china alone when they were in china
> 
> travis k doesn't want friction in the app so no verifying rider accounts, 16 drivers in Brazil were murdered this way, more in mexico
> 
> ...


With Uber scooters, Uber is risking some real capital, so an ID is required. For UberX/UberStool, the driver has undertaken all the risk, so they'll let anybody summons the suckers



MiamiKid said:


> Your tactics are lower class and disgraceful.
> Corporate will hear of this.
> ?


Your commentary about my class are classist and frankly a waste of your time. Which one of my posts makes you think I give a flying fornication what class you think I'm in? Did you take a college class on elitism? Or did you just believe your mother when she said you were better then everyone else? Calling me names won't change my opinion. It won't change my actions, and when they take away cancellation fees "because of my shuffling," I hope you're the first one they screw over.

If you were half as smart as you think you are you'd realize that we want Uber to punish the polly-annas like you. Making your lives miserable is the only way to make you quit. We're trying to crush the company you work for. You're collateral damage, and we don't care. At this point, I applaud every driver pay cut. It just makes the cess pool more caustic and intolerable for you shills. Keep trying to defend Uber/Lyft. It's valiant. COngrats on being the first non-DC board poster to the list


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

MiamiKid said:


> Your tactics are lower class and disgraceful.
> Corporate will hear of this.
> ?


You're tactics are scumbag criminal. Shuffling/stealing is lowlife. What's wrong with "you people".

Will take this further.

You have no right to do what you're doing.

Please stop driving Uber. NOW



HPClays said:


> If you pick up a rider that YOU have just shuffled, it's called the Stone Cold Multiplier. When they get in you act like nothing happened. It's basically tipping yourself. When they ask you about the "shuffle" you put on your poker face and tell them about dropping off Marjorie just around the corner. If you can milk an additional tip out of that paxhole, you have achieved God-Mode.
> 
> You have your mission, now get out there!
> 
> ...


Just turned you in to corporate.


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

HPClays said:


> If you were half as smart as you think you are you'd realize that we want Uber to punish the polly-annas like you. Making your lives miserable is the only way to make you quit. We're trying to crush the company you work for. You're collateral damage, and we don't care. At this point, I applaud every driver pay cut. It just makes the cess pool more caustic and intolerable for you shills. Keep trying to defend Uber/Lyft. It's valiant. COngrats on being the first non-DC board poster to the list


What a smart comment! You are awesome!

SARCASM MODE ON.


----------



## BlueEyesVegas (Jul 24, 2019)

Im a little confused forgive me. I have uber pro. How are u able to find our duration or distance of trip before u press start for trip


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

BlueEyesVegas said:


> Im a little confused forgive me. I have uber pro. How are u able to find our duration or distance of trip before u press start for trip


call or text no pro treating you like an employee needed, excercise your independent contractor,13th amendment, & international human rights to get the details of your contract before providing free labor, time, gas money, & risk


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

BlueEyesVegas said:


> Im a little confused forgive me. I have uber pro. How are u able to find our duration or distance of trip before u press start for trip


It says it in the little pop up window that lasts 5 seconds to take or decline a trip.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SuperDumped said:


> call or text no pro treating you like an employee needed, excercise your independent contractor,13th amendment, & international human rights to get the details of your contract before providing free labor, time, gas money, & risk


None of those apply here, per TOS.

End of conversation.


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

Here's an example of how it looks:
Map shows where to pick up pax. It says I'm 1 minute away or 0.1 miles away from pick up spot.

After picking up, the trip will be 9 minutes long towards the northwest.










If you don't have that info, then you don't have Uber Pro.


----------



## Selector19 (Mar 15, 2019)

Now Uber and Lyft go after those who shuffle. If you develop a pattern and Uber/Lyft finds out about it, you will get deactivated. Intentional shuffling is fraud and those who do it deserve to be kicked out. Period!


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

Selector19 said:


> Now Uber and Lyft go after those who shuffle. If you develop a pattern and Uber/Lyft finds out about it, you will get deactivated. Intentional shuffling is fraud and those who do it deserve to be kicked out. Period!


paying me less than $8-10 gross is fraud, illegal, & human trafficking. I can verify my costs as well as any 3rd grade math student.

sending me a blank contract coercing free labor is fraud as independent contractors have the rights to see the details of their contract before being bound by them,if they dont cover costs their illegal per the 13th amendment and also non binding

treating me like an employee & coercing me to provide free labor,time, gas, risk just to get the details of my contract is also fraud

courts have found uber guilty of fraud numerous times with fines almost half a billion dollars

good for goose good for gander

96% will fail by design i applaud all drivers who go out with a bang degrading the service all x & pool requesters should receive the worst service possible they get the $1- $2 net or less of service the driver gets paid push them to xl & teach them to tip $5 cash upon entry otherwise ignore, cancel, & or treat like trash,make the idiots & math flunkies who actually service these loss leader requests get angry pax whove been cancelled on numerous times, ignored thinking a ride was minutes away per the app but have to wait 10+ minutes

win win



Chorch said:


> Here's an example of how it looks:
> Map shows where to pick up pax. It says I'm 1 minute away or 0.1 miles away from pick up spot.
> 
> After picking up, the trip will be 9 minutes long towards the northwest.
> ...


that 9 min trip means less than a few miles & ignoring it means id lose my "pro" status which i can get with a simple text, if their going to airport they tend to text back so im a pro minus the free labor


----------



## ILoveThisPlace (Jul 19, 2019)

I text this to all of my strip pickups: 

“Hello, and thanks for riding with Uber! Your driver is on the way. Our system indicates your pickup is from a high volume area. If your trip is going off strip, please press 1 and we’ll apply the residential discount after you complete and rate your driver. If you’re going on strip, press 2 and we’ll make sure each additional trip is 10% off with our loyalty discount.” 

If I don’t get a 1, I drive just close enough and cancel at 1 minute under no car seat which still provides a cancelation fee without waiting 5 minutes.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Selector19 said:


> Now Uber and Lyft go after those who shuffle. If you develop a pattern and Uber/Lyft finds out about it, you will get deactivated. Intentional shuffling is fraud and those who do it deserve to be kicked out. Period!


Absolutely


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

SuperDumped said:


> paying me less than $8-10 gross is fraud, illegal, & human trafficking. I can verify my costs as well as any 3rd grade math student.
> 
> sending me a blank contract coercing free labor is fraud as independent contractors have the rights to see the details of their contract before being bound by them,if they dont cover costs their illegal per the 13th amendment and also non binding
> 
> ...


You guys are so annoying. If you are happy without Uber Pro, be happy. No need to put down others that enjoy it.


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

Chorch said:


> You guys are so annoying. If you are happy without Uber Pro, be happy. No need to put down others that enjoy it.


no one but desperate and or stupid people enjoy providing labor for points LMAO especially when you have the right to call & text without providing free time, gas, labor, & risk to do so

buh bye


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

CJfrom619 said:


> You cant make money canceling rides. $4 is not what your looking for. You want the ride...not to drive to a pickup, wait 5 minutes then collect $4 just to drive to another pickup? Sometimes driver just don't think things through alot.


 From the looks of it you as well don't think things through. I will not go into detail as it is too obvious. But we have a person on here, many call him the Pope, his handle is 3.75, why 3.75 you think! ?


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> From the looks of it you as well don't think things through. I will not go into detail as it is too obvious. But we have a person on here, many call him the Pope, his handle is 3.75, why 3.75 you think! ?


You gotta @ people to get their attention. @3.75, you are being summoned to discuss shuffling yet again! ?


----------



## 3.75 (Sep 29, 2017)

My screenshots are on another phone but lets just say if you can make $50 off the shuffle in 3 hours, then why even bother with the pax, especially now that the financial aspect of it , youre barely breaking even with expenses factored in.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

He d


OldBay said:


> I notice you blocked out the times of the trips so we couldn't see how long it took you to make $20.
> 
> I think you're shooting yourself in the foot with the shuffling.


It took him faster than doing four 3.75 rides. He saved time and expenses and increased pay from 3.75 to 5. It's simple economics especially in market with short rides. He could have got lucky and got a longer ride, but played it safe and did it for shits and giggles and to show us the move.


----------



## 3.75 (Sep 29, 2017)

The algorithym part of it is pure horse crap. 

What matters is learning your market. If you know a certain mall only has short trips that take 20 minutes to complete and you only get paid $7 to run the trip, and you can make $12 in the same amount of time.without doing the trip, why would you even consider the trip?


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Uber is bleeding money.
> Crack down on shuffling!
> If shuffling is a widespread practice, then that is where they are bleeding money.


Wether you agree or disagree with shuffling you can't possibly think this is where Uber is "bleeding money" when they have losses in the billions.

Do the math, only a tiny fraction of drivers belong to this forum. Statistically, most are totally blind ants who can't even figure out they lose money on long pick ups let alone know and understand about shuffling. If you think U/L is going to turn profitable by eliminating cancellation fees than I have a bridge to sell you.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

3.75 said:


> The algorithym part of it is pure horse crap.
> 
> What matters is learning your market. If you know a certain mall only has short trips that take 20 minutes to complete and you only get paid $7 to run the trip, and you can make $12 in the same amount of time.without doing the trip, why would you even consider the trip?


It's a cost of doing business. We are collateral damage daily. Thus pax become collateral damage. If people think undercutting prison wages for a workforce provides prompt reliable service, that's their miscalculation. Offering 3.75 after I accept a ride comes with consequences to the Lyft community. Or Uber's. Any and all attempts to pay me slave wages will be met with consequences to the passenger and the platform. I stared down my last collateral damage passenger this weekend. Sat next to her, smoked a cig, then walked away as I no showed her. Honestly I felt bad, but she was safe, next car was near, and she lost some time and money, as I do daily. Welcome to fake ?!


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Seamus said:


> Wether you agree or disagree with shuffling you can't possibly think this is where Uber is "bleeding money" when they have losses in the billions.
> 
> Do the math, only a tiny fraction of drivers belong to this forum. Statistically, most are totally blind ants who can't even figure out they lose money on long pick ups let alone know and understand about shuffling. If you think U/L is going to turn profitable by eliminating cancellation fees than I have a bridge to sell you.


Even though this site is a fraction of drivers, I think Shuffling is fairly common. They don't take it to the extremes that some of us do, but I think it happens far more than a few Deplorables here.

When some noob driver, especially in a market that is $2.62 for a minimum fare trip, sees he gets $3.75 ($5 on Lyft) for no miles or aux cord requests, the light bulb goes on.


----------



## Jlynn (Jul 24, 2019)

I shuffled two pax Saturday night in Baltimore. Some police activity was going on and they had shut down a stretch of road which in turn caused gridlock. Two pax decided they needed Uber’s but placed their pins in the center of where the road was closed. (Bars in the area combined with college students running drunk in the street was the cause for police presence). Anyway, twice I attempted to get close before saying the hell with it. Pax expect to be picked up where they can’t be reached and even though I texted to the one, I ended up cancelling because it just wasn’t safe to pick them up.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

New2This said:


> Even though this site is a fraction of drivers, I think Shuffling is fairly common. They don't take it to the extremes that some of us do, but I think it happens far more than a few Deplorables here.
> 
> When some noob driver, especially in a market that is $2.62 for a minimum fare trip, sees he gets $3.75 ($5 on Lyft) for no miles or aux cord requests, the light bulb goes on.


Maybe but I don't think so. What is widespread is newbies cancelling after 5 minutes sitting on the pin, or starting to pull away at 4:30 (oooo bad!!! LOL) and as you know that's not really a shuffle. There are some markets where I agree with you though. Shuffling has long been common in Manhattan in heavy traffic. With a 96% one year turn over rate not many stick around long enough to learn survival skills. For some of us that have been doing this a couple years, I've never seen a time when so many ants are content to earn ever decreasing rates and no surges.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Seamus said:


> Wether you agree or disagree with shuffling you can't possibly think this is where Uber is "bleeding money" when they have losses in the billions.
> 
> Do the math, only a tiny fraction of drivers belong to this forum. Statistically, most are totally blind ants who can't even figure out they lose money on long pick ups let alone know and understand about shuffling. If you think U/L is going to turn profitable by eliminating cancellation fees than I have a bridge to sell you.


It is a source of leakage.



I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> He d
> 
> It took him faster than doing four 3.75 rides. He saved time and expenses and increased pay from 3.75 to 5. It's simple economics especially in market with short rides. He could have got lucky and got a longer ride, but played it safe and did it for shits and giggles and to show us the move.


All it takes is one tip to change the math in favor of taking the rides. And we know they aren't all 3.75 rides.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> It took him faster than doing four 3.75 rides. He saved time and expenses and increased pay from 3.75 to 5. It's simple economics especially in market with short rides. He could have got lucky and got a longer ride, but played it safe and did it for shits and giggles and to show us the move.


Exactly. Except that I'm a "she"


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Seamus said:


> Maybe but I don't think so. What is widespread is newbies cancelling after 5 minutes sitting on the pin, or starting to pull away at 4:30 (oooo bad!!! LOL) and as you know that's not really a shuffle. There are some markets where I agree with you though. Shuffling has long been common in Manhattan in heavy traffic.


Well, honestly, in say SF market, I can do multiple legal shuffles without even becoming hard shuffles. Pax puts pin, downtown, no legal place to stop and park and wait. If not toes to curb, I follow traffic laws, go a few blocks and park safely. Call pax and let them know I am here at first legal stopping point. Leave it to them to run two blocks or be no showed. It's technically following traffic laws and if it provides a shuffle, so be it. It is by far a side gig to a side gig. Nothing that would warrant major change or pursuit by U/L.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SuperDumped said:


> paying me less than $8-10 gross is fraud, illegal, & human trafficking. I can verify my costs as well as any 3rd grade math student.
> 
> sending me a blank contract coercing free labor is fraud as independent contractors have the rights to see the details of their contract before being bound by them,if they dont cover costs their illegal per the 13th amendment and also non binding
> 
> ...


Hey SuperDumped, some of the lower level, less educated drivers, on this forum, deserve less than minimum wage. Or, as far as I'm concerned, free labor from those folks is fair game.

No one's forcing them to drive!

MAGA
?


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> Exactly. Except that I'm a "she"


Happy to have ladies on the forum. Please take out hubby once a week to happy hour and pay through shuffles. Have my blessing!?


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> Happy to have ladies on the forum. Please take out hubby once a week to happy hour and pay through shuffles. Have my blessing!?


That's pretty much what we've been doing lately ?


----------



## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

When you shuffle...you hide from the PAX....then you leave after the 3 minutes...so the PAX gets charged for you hiding? Correct?


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> When you shuffle...you hide from the PAX....then you leave after the 3 minutes...so the PAX gets charged for you hiding? Correct?


Actually its 5 minutes
but you have the general idea....


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## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

Ok, if that is how it works, then everyone that does it is a piece of shit human being.


----------



## Jlynn (Jul 24, 2019)

So may other threads on this. You’ll stress yourself out worrying about what other drivers do.


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## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

not worried, just passing on judgement, in case they are blind to their own evil spirit.


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## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

3.75 said:


> The algorithym part of it is pure horse crap.
> 
> What matters is learning your market. If you know a certain mall only has short trips that take 20 minutes to complete and you only get paid $7 to run the trip, and you can make $12 in the same amount of time.without doing the trip, why would you even consider the trip?


Why even show up at a mall for a pickup if you know the rides are most likely gonna be short though. Why would you even consider taking these requests? You can't make any real money on cancellation fees


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

CJfrom619 said:


> Why even show up at a mall for a pickup if you know the rides are most likely gonna be short though. Why would you even consider taking these requests? You can't make any real money on cancellation fees


If you're in the Food Court you can


----------



## CJfrom619 (Apr 27, 2017)

Why veteran drivers think that canceling a ride is a profitable idea just makes no sense to me. Think it through.



New2This said:


> If you're in the Food Court you can


How effin pathetic and sad that is. I hope Im never in a position where I need money so bad that I have to scam hard working people out of $5. Get real clown.

Your eating at the mall while accepting rides with no intent to give the ride but to waste someones time and scam them out of $5. I got one thing to say to that.

Get a life loser. Maybe you or anyone who does this should look at themselves in the mirror and evaluate your life and how you got to this point.

That move is no better then a petty thief stealing a candy bar at a liquor store.


----------



## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> When you shuffle...you hide from the PAX....then you leave after the 3 minutes...so the PAX gets charged for you hiding? Correct?


Any pick up you cancel is a shuffle. It doesn't really matter whether you hide or do it in front of them. Make sure you get your cancel fee though. Never leave empty handed.


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## Clevername (Mar 28, 2019)

CJfrom619 said:


> That move is no better then a petty thief stealing a candy bar at a liquor store.


Or stealing a candy bar from some high school kid.


----------



## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

Pax Collector said:


> Any pick up you cancel is a shuffle. It doesn't really matter whether you hide or do it in front of them. Make sure you get your cancel fee though. Never leave empty handed.


It is one thing to cancel because they were not reasonable and did not attempt to find your vehicle within the 5 minutes.

It is a completely different matter if an Uber driver chooses to place his vehicle in a position that is difficult for the PAX to locate the vehicle, then charge the PAX for it.


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

SuperDumped said:


> no one but desperate and or stupid people enjoy providing labor for points LMAO especially when you have the right to call & text without providing free time, gas, labor, & risk to do so
> 
> buh bye


Then we are desperate and stupid. Why do you still harass us for having Uber Pro?
If I see someone stupid, I mind my own business, I don't go out there pointing my finger at them, bullying them.

Be a good person. It pays off.


----------



## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

I can think of better things to steal at a liquor store but I usually just pull out the card and feed the tax demon.


----------



## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> It is a completely different matter if an Uber driver chooses to place his vehicle in a position that is difficult for the PAX to locate the vehicle, then charge the PAX for it.


I don't always condone that type of shuffling, unless the pax was acting like a jerk either on the phone or through text.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

CJfrom619 said:


> Why veteran drivers think that canceling a ride is a profitable idea just makes no sense to me. Think it through.
> 
> 
> How effin pathetic and sad that is. I hope Im never in a position where I need money so bad that I have to scam hard working people out of $5. Get real clown.
> ...


I think he is semi joking. But please look at this or any other morally bad behavior as a sign of deeper layers of abuse. If not performing the job pays me more than performing, something is seriously wrong. Ask yourself why would you make more by not taking a ride, is the minimum fair ridiculous? Is that why as soon as some see they make 3.75 for driving someone, they choose to not and make more. It is like the cops who kill some innocent unarmed black teen, go to the dinner in that town, guess what, the black cook might just let them taste his loogie. I am sorry with the circumstances some act out and disrupt the platform in immoral ways due to grievance. Again it's a symptom not the disease.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> It is one thing to cancel because they were not reasonable and did not attempt to find your vehicle within the 5 minutes.
> 
> It is a completely different matter if an Uber driver chooses to place his vehicle in a position that is difficult for the PAX to locate the vehicle, then charge the PAX for it.


The rider doesn't pay it. It ultimately comes out of Uber's pocket, and drives the stock down a teensy bit. I'm fine with that.

When I get denied an incentive I qualified for or am denied a legitimate cleaning fee by Uber, I have no other choice but Shuffle to get what's due to me.



kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> not worried, just passing on judgement, in case they are blind to their own evil spirit.


Not blind. Do it knowingly.

Speaking of evil spirits have you ever looked at the business practices of Uber/Lyft?

If so you know why we Shuffle.


----------



## 25rides7daysaweek (Nov 20, 2017)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> It is one thing to cancel because they were not reasonable and did not attempt to find your vehicle within the 5 minutes.
> 
> It is a completely different matter if an Uber driver chooses to place his vehicle in a position that is difficult for the PAX to locate the vehicle, then charge the PAX for it.


I call no shows shuffles but a lot the time 
here it means hide and seek then screw. 
Definitely dirtbag material indeed....


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

New2This said:


> Even though this site is a fraction of drivers, I think Shuffling is fairly common. They don't take it to the extremes that some of us do, but I think it happens far more than a few Deplorables here.
> 
> When some noob driver, especially in a market that is $2.62 for a minimum fare trip, sees he gets $3.75 ($5 on Lyft) for no miles or aux cord requests, the light bulb goes on.


If I was in a market that was _legitimately_ so bad that I had to shuffle to survive, I'd take a hint and get another job. The question is, do people shuffle because the market is _legitimately_ bad, or do they shuffle because they don't have a clue?

I would guess that the shufflers are missing some fundamental skills to make it profitable. Including:

A) They don't get tips because they are not personable and rub professionals the wrong way.
B) Lack attention to detail, don't wash or clean car regularly, don't realize that passengers will be irate if basic cleanliness needs are not met.
C) They have zero mechanical ability and eat the cost of a mechanic every time something breaks (shouldn't be ubering anyway, imo)
D) They don't have any pattern recognition ability and don't know where/when to stage for profitable trips. (Or they are unable to drive during profitable times.)
E) They are antisocial and feel dread when they have to drive anyone outside their limited "comfort zone", so they would rather shuffle.

If anyone tells me they are shuffling, I tend to think the person is unintelligent, unethical, or both. Which makes A-E above more likely.

People shuffle because they lack ability and are unethical.


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

I agree 200% with you. But I would keep this convo in this other thread that has been going for a while now:

https://uberpeople.net/threads/just-learned-about-shuffling.349350/page-18#post-5375472


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

CJfrom619 said:


> Why even show up at a mall for a pickup if you know the rides are most likely gonna be short though. Why would you even consider taking these requests? You can't make any real money on cancellation fees


maybe hes already at the mall at the food court ordering another chili cheese fry ; ) only time i turn om x is for airport rematch & if its not going my way i cancel those & of course walmart i can shop & get a gallon of milk, some bananas, or a whole rotisserie chicken out of it lol even xls not worth walmarts



CJfrom619 said:


> Why veteran drivers think that canceling a ride is a profitable idea just makes no sense to me. Think it through.
> 
> 
> How effin pathetic and sad that is. I hope Im never in a position where I need money so bad that I have to scam hard working people out of $5. Get real clown.
> ...


I hope im never in position where i have to deliver people for .60 a mile or $3-4Gross minimum fares paying that is no better then a petty thief stealing a candy bar at a liquor store

I ain't mad at him if i didn't do xl only & make good money & was out of work or minimum wage levels Id do the same thing with zero shame

lol app thinks it can steal with no repercussions, this what happens the human steals back

20% of rides are FRAUD its in the new book so 20% of these types of shuffles dont even exist, the spoon doesn't exist & the algo dont care why should the human? eventually they might get deactivated & if the rider complains they get refunded or credits its all on the VCs including the 77 Million dollar mansions & 34 million dollar condos, the only one hurt is the poor rider who has to wait longer because they think they can afford a chauffeur & 10 cancels or shuffles theyll eventually get an idiot willing to drive for free faster than a cab

who drives for profit? thats silly you can lose $9000 a minute 12+ million dollars a day burned in a fire, hundreds of millions bribing people instead of paying labor with it & become a billionaire in amerikkka ef yeah

say no to profits every day im shuffling


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

OldBay said:


> If I was in a market that was _legitimately_ so bad that I had to shuffle to survive, I'd take a hint and get another job. The question is, do people shuffle because the market is _legitimately_ bad, or do they shuffle because they don't have a clue?
> 
> I would guess that the shufflers are missing some fundamental skills to make it profitable. Including:
> 
> ...


F. None of the above.

I do well, very well in fact on tips, because despite my jackass persona here I am very amiable in real life.

Car is clean and get constant compliments on it.

As I've stated numerous times, I Shuffle to make myself whole when Uber's screwed me out of something I legitimately deserve (incentives, cleaning fee etc.)

When gas was $3.50+ here and Uber/Lyft refused to do anything to help with a fuel surcharge, I Shuffled to offset gas prices.

I also don't Shuffle as much as I used to but I advocate it heavily because it screws Uber.



OldBay said:


> D) They don't have any pattern recognition ability and don't know where/when to stage for profitable trips. (Or they are unable to drive during profitable times.)


Aren't you the one that keeps saying you take every shit trip so that "the algorithm" will reward you with good trips? That's not pattern recognition that's just turning the app on and taking whatever Uber sends you. I have a definite strategy.

Profitable trips? I cherrypick like hell and my per-trip average is better than some Uber Black drivers.


----------



## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

New2This said:


> The rider doesn't pay it. It ultimately comes out of Uber's pocket, and drives the stock down a teensy bit. I'm fine with that.
> 
> When I get denied an incentive I qualified for or am denied a legitimate cleaning fee by Uber, I have no other choice but Shuffle to get what's due to me.


Unless your app is different than mine, it gives you the option to charge the rider or not charge the rider.

So, the rider pays in my area. Maybe yours is different?


----------



## Clevername (Mar 28, 2019)

I got a call/ping to pick up a guy at a health club. I sat at the entrance and after a minute and a half I recieve a text, "I'm behind you, can you back up 100 feet?" It's a big parking lot with few cars so I turn around and pick him up. Turns out I've picked the same guy up before at other places around town, maybe 4 or 5 times. He has a common name but my car has a rather distictive license plate so he knew who I was before I got to him. Had I insisted he walk towards me or shuffled him, he would certainly have remembered for the next time I got a call to get him. He's a good tipper, too.


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

I've posted this before but my best shuffle was a long pickup . 17 minutes. Head 25 mins east to nyc. I get there pax calls me says start the trip hell be out in 4 mins. I was like no problem. Around 4 mins 30 seconds he heads out the door with suitcase . Timer hits 5 minutes he was 20 feet away from car. Hit cancel and I was gone. He starts yelling heyyyyyyy!!!!. I start cracking up and see the cancelation fee. $11. Hell yea. 

I still think about this and crack up everytime.


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> Unless your app is different than mine, it gives you the option to charge the rider or not charge the rider.
> 
> So, the rider pays in my area. Maybe yours is different?


The rider presses a button and gets credited the cancel fee.

Uber eats the fee. Their stock goes down fractionally. Win/win.


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

Clevername said:


> I got a call/ping to pick up a guy at a health club. I sat at the entrance and after a minute and a half I recieve a text, "I'm behind you, can you back up 100 feet?" It's a big parking lot with few cars so I turn around and pick him up. Turns out I've picked the same guy up before at other places around town, maybe 4 or 5 times. He has a common name but my car has a rather distictive license plate so he knew who I was before I got to him. Had I insisted he walk towards me or shuffled him, he would certainly have remembered for the next time I got a call to get him. He's a good tipper, too.


any local who's not a good tipper gets a 1 star & an unmatch request if they didn't go to the airport, he really couldn't walk 100 feet that would of been a 1 star for wasting my cellphone minutes

theres always exceptions to the rules but since my first week 5 years ago health club pings are ignored lol aint nobody going to the airport from there & most likely unshowered or sweaty no thanks, the community thanks you though


----------



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

Love shuffling in Newark or any urban areas. These people are never ready. Even if I see them walking towards car I cancel and bounce.


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## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

New2This said:


> The rider presses a button and gets credited the cancel fee.
> 
> Uber eats the fee. Their stock goes down fractionally. Win/win.


How do you know this? I am not saying you are wrong, I assume you are right, I just want to know for sure.

My app specifically asks me if I want to charge the rider.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> How do you know this? I am not saying you are wrong, I assume you are right, I just want to know for sure.


Because I've done tons of Shuffles.

There's a button for the rider to dispute the cancellation fee. When they do they automatically get a credit.

Driver keeps the fee (minus Uber's cut of course) so the only thing the rider's out is a few minutes of time.

Sorry not sorry. Collateral damage.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> not worried, just passing on judgement, in case they are blind to their own evil spirit.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> How do you know this? I am not saying you are wrong, I assume you are right, I just want to know for sure.
> 
> My app specifically asks me if I want to charge the rider.


At a Meetup one of the moderators here was Shuffling. Yes mods Shuffle too, much to the chagrin of a certain choirboy, who actually tried reporting to UPNet administrators the mod for Shuffling at the Meetup. ? But I digress.

Mod opened his rider app. I got the ping. I Shuffled him. He hit the button and got a $5 credit. I kept my Shuffle fee. Uber lost money.

Doing my part for the IPO one Shuffle at a time.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

OldBay said:


> People shuffle because they lack ability and are unethical.


Or they're in a market where a $20+ ride is rare and the only way to make any money is grinding it out. Yes, I will take $3.75 with less wear & tear than $3. As for tips, that's where strategy comes in. I do anywhere from 10 to 20 rides per day. I actively shuffle 2-5. I only purposefully shuffle rides that I know are going to be money losers. I'm full time in a small market and I'm managing to make it work.


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> Ok, if that is how it works, then everyone that does it is a piece of shit human being.


When a parent knowingly puts a driver in a position of breaking a state law of no minors with out an adult present. Tuff $h!t.

I will be paid to do Uber / Lyft's dirty work.


----------



## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> Ok, if that is how it works, then everyone that does it is a piece of shit human being.


-------------------------
How can a Kansas City Chief's Fan have such a nasty mouth ???



Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> When a parent knowingly puts a driver in a position of breaking a state law of no minors with out an adult present. Tuff $h!t.
> 
> I will be paid to do Uber / Lyft's dirty work.


------------------------
I believe the key word there is " Knowingly ". No one reads the T.O.S. They just want a ride. Also, many minors have accounts of their own.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

New2This said:


> Aren't you the one that keeps saying you take every shit trip so that "the algorithm" will reward you with good trips? That's not pattern recognition that's just turning the app on and taking whatever Uber sends you. I have a definite strategy.
> 
> Profitable trips? I cherrypick like hell and my per-trip average is better than some Uber Black drivers.


Not every trip. Pattern recognition is about staging in certain areas at certain times so that you can take the majority and do well. I still cancel some trips and decline others, but not enough to lose pro rating. Remember that only the last month of the pro period matters, so there is quite a bit of cancelling and declining in the first two months.

Pattern recognition is about understanding the traffic patterns and being on the right streets so you are going against gridlock when the pings start rolling.

Pattern recognition is also about "what to do next", where to go when you are dumped in a certain area at a certain time.

If I'm serving as a runabout doing short trips, its in areas/times where I get multiple good tips per hour. Or if I'm driving in the morning, its where there is a good chance of airport trips. Its impossible to know if a pickup at a house is to the airport or a short trip to work, so I take them all. I'm not going to roll up, see if they have a bag, and shuffle if they don't.

Also, lower income areas tend to have higher population density so its not uncommon to be driving mostly non-stop even if there aren't tips. Sure it brings my average/hr down, but not enough that I won't do them. Alot of these "shit trips" serve as feeders into areas where there are more pings. (However, if I get dumped in west bmore, I get the hell out of dodge and do one of several things depending on where I am in my shift.)

As I said, if I wasn't able to make it work I wouldn't resort to robbing customers.



ariel5466 said:


> Or they're in a market where a $20+ ride is rare and the only way to make any money is grinding it out. Yes, I will take $3.75 with less wear & tear than $3. As for tips, that's where strategy comes in. I do anywhere from 10 to 20 rides per day. I actively shuffle 2-5. I only purposefully shuffle rides that I know are going to be money losers. I'm full time in a small market and I'm managing to make it work.


Shuffling 2 trips out of 20 is understandable.

Shuffling 5 trips out of 10 is theft.

Here is what I do: Because I have pro I know how tasty the trip is going to be. If I arrive to a location and I realize its going to be "unprofitable" or if I get a bad vibe, I just run the other app. Lyft is already on while going to pickup, so I have a choice if something better comes along.

Customer can cancel when they see I'm getting farther away. If I have a pickup in the other app, I don't see any benefit to waiting 5 for a shuffle.

And yes, if I get a "bad vibe" I will often just cancel and drive away instead of waiting the five. And if I start the trip with pax in car, and I realize it will be a big money loser, I explain that I can't do a trip that makes $5 and takes 25 minutes. I will cancel and drop them. This happens more often in Lyft where rating doesnt matter at all.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

OldBay said:


> Shuffling 2 trips out of 20 is understandable.
> 
> Shuffling 5 trips out of 10 is theft.


It's more like 2 out of 10 or 5 out of 20. Roughly. But if you really think that shuffling is wrong, how would 2 out of 20 be understandable to you? If it's wrong it's wrong, right?


----------



## DexNex (Apr 18, 2015)

Pax Collector said:


> I don't always condone that type of shuffling, unless the pax was acting like a jerk either on the phone or through text.


example....


----------



## Amsoil Uber Connect (Jan 14, 2015)

KK2929 said:


> ------------------------
> I believe the key word there is " Knowingly ". No one reads the T.O.S. They just want a ride. Also, *many minors have accounts of their own.*


That there parents set up for them with there c card.

Even if they do not read the TOS , how many cancels do you think it takes for them to figure it out ?

I had one kid that admitted there mom knew.


----------



## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

DexNex said:


> example....


What a morning delight.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> It's more like 2 out of 10 or 5 out of 20. Roughly. But if you really think that shuffling is wrong, how would 2 out of 20 be understandable to you? If it's wrong it's wrong, right?


I would say that 10% of trips might be fubared from the start with a bad/impossible pickup location, or a pax that has unreasonable demands. If you are only shuffling 10%, thats not the same as intentionally screwing people. Although 10% is probably high. I usually just let the pax cancel while I run the other app if i dont like the trip.

For instance, I wouldn't take a ping at a walmart knowing what that usually entails. I think you would probably take these pings and hide somewhere in the parking lot.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> When you shuffle...you hide from the PAX....then you leave after the 3 minutes...so the PAX gets charged for you hiding? Correct?


Oh no, not again!!! C'mon @ariel5466 join me in this one!


----------



## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

It is ok to shuffle if the rider does not get to you in 5 minutes, or if they are putting you in a position of breaking the law. I agree with all that, of course!

To hide from the PAX like an adult version of hide-n-seek, then to collect money because you "won" the hide-n-seek game is pathetic!


----------



## Pax Collector (Feb 18, 2018)

Seamus said:


> Oh no, not again!!! C'mon @ariel5466 join me in this one!
> 
> View attachment 354176


Let's face it, we've all had a pax we wanted to do that to.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

OldBay said:


> Here is what I do: Because I have pro I know how tasty the trip is going to be. If I arrive to a location and I realize its going to be "unprofitable" or if I get a bad vibe, I just run the other app. Lyft is already on while going to pickup, so I have





OldBay said:


> I usually just let the pax cancel while I run the other app if i dont like the trip.


Then you, my friend, are a shuffler. Get off your high horse.


----------



## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

Do you believe in the Bible? If not, why are you quoting it to me?

If so, ok, fair enough. In that case, I choose to judge and choose to also be judged by others. My shit does stink. But, I don't deny my shit isn't shit. See the difference?


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> It is one thing to cancel because they were not reasonable and did not attempt to find your vehicle within the 5 minutes.
> 
> It is a completely different matter if an Uber driver chooses to place his vehicle in a position that is difficult for the PAX to locate the vehicle, then charge the PAX for it.


Spot on.
?


----------



## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> When you shuffle...you hide from the PAX....then you leave after the 3 minutes...so the PAX gets charged for you hiding? Correct?


 One of the most savage features of this game. It's easy. Just sit and wait to enjoy the free cancellation fee. Both Uber and Lyft let drivers enjoy shuffling because with that satisfaction drivers run longer. They tested on rats, results were positive.

They make sure you those unfair cancellation fees eventually deducted from your earnings. Riders are very experienced, most of them will find you hiding though.


----------



## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

XPG said:


> One of the most savage features of this game. It's easy. Just sit and wait to enjoy the free cancellation fee. Both Uber and Lyft let drivers enjoy shuffling because with that satisfaction drivers run longer. They tested on rats, results were positive.
> 
> They make sure you those unfair cancellation fees eventually deducted from your earnings. Riders are very experienced, most of them will find you hiding though.


yes, im sure when you hide and they find you, they just love to leave a big tip after that ride, HAHA!!! Saturday, I got a $20 cash tip and a $10 cash tip...and I actually like my riders! I'll stick to being a person not full of hate, thanks!


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

New2This said:


> At a Meetup one of the moderators here was Shuffling. Yes mods Shuffle too, much to the chagrin of a certain choirboy, who actually tried reporting to UPNet administrators the mod for Shuffling at the Meetup. ? But I digress.
> 
> Mod opened his rider app. I got the ping. I Shuffled him. He hit the button and got a $5 credit. I kept my Shuffle fee. Uber lost money.
> 
> Doing my part for the IPO one Shuffle at a time.


Never thought of that. This is a whole different technique. I love this one, no actual collateral damage, no harm to pax. This is actually genius. Thanks for sharing. I have a feeling this must be coming from the DC crew we have heard about.?


----------



## XPG (Oct 4, 2017)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> I got a $20 cash tip and a $10 cash tip...and I actually like my riders! I'll stick to being a person not full of hate, thanks!


 Good job!


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

Goes through my head every single dang time.


----------



## TomTheAnt (Jan 1, 2019)

I don't go and hide from pax, but I'll be happy to do the Honorable Shuffle any time I can. :thumbup:


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> Never thought of that. This is a whole different technique. I love this one, no actual collateral damage, no harm to pax. This is actually genius. Thanks for sharing. I have a feeling this must be coming from the DC crew we have heard about.?


The DEPLORABLE D.C. crew. Please get it right.

According to the UPNet conscience we earned the title.


----------



## 3.75 (Sep 29, 2017)

CJfrom619 said:


> Why even show up at a mall for a pickup if you know the rides are most likely gonna be short though. Why would you even consider taking these requests? You can't make any real money on cancellation fees


Maybe, just maybe because the gag is like you said. Theyre short trips so guess what's more profitable to do.












CJfrom619 said:


> Why veteran drivers think that canceling a ride is a profitable idea just makes no sense to me. Think it through.


Because the days of 0.90 cents a mile and multiplier surge are gone.

Because why waste half an hour on a trip that nets you $5 at current rates vs $5 for doing literally nothing on Lyft and $3.75 on Uber.

You do 3 in a half hour and you surpass the junk trip's fare.



CJfrom619 said:


> Howeffin pathetic and sad that is. I hope Im never in a position where I need money so bad that I have to scam hard working people out of $5. Get real clown.


About as pathetic as posting on an online message board that being shady within one of the most inept, corrupt, and self absorbed companies is wrong.

If anyone is a clown, it is the one that can't see the dollar signs, the red ink and the green ink.

If anyone needs a reality check, its the people that think there's some uber deity thing that controls what rides you get.

Heres how uber works in 2019.

You take a ping, drive 5 minutes and half a mile to pick up.a millenial going 3 miles and it takes 20 minutes to complete. You get paid $6 or so for it. Lets round to 30 minutes, you made $6 GROSS. Then factor in wear and tear of the car, gas, and setting aside cash for a replament car and congrats, youre in the red.

Yet you shuffle at least 2 times in 30 minutes and you make $7.50 to $10 depending on the platform.

So who needs a reality check again? The shuffler or the ant?



CJfrom619 said:


> Your eating at the mall while accepting rides with no intent to give the ride but to waste someones time and scam them out of $5. I got one thing to say to that.
> 
> Get a life loser. Maybe you or anyone who does this should look at themselves in the mirror and evaluate your life and how you got to this point.


Winners make money. Losers moan and complain on a message board about morality.

Which one pays the bills on the first? Money or Morality?



CJfrom619 said:


> That move is no better then a petty thief stealing a candy bar at a liquor store.


You mean how uber lowered the rates for drivers while raising them for riders?

Even though uber does not invest the majority of its money back to the core business?

This is petty.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> When you shuffle...you hide from the PAX....then you leave after the 3 minutes...so the PAX gets charged for you hiding? Correct?


 I do if whenever I have a legitimate reason to refuse service.

IE too many passengers, no car seats.

It's safer to be far enough away that they can't ram you with a shopping cart full of Groceries while your waiting out the 5 minutes to get a no-show fee if your behind the Walmart instead of parked out by the door.

I learned that the hard way.


----------



## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> I do if whenever I have a legitimate reason to refuse service.
> 
> IE too many passengers, no car seats.
> 
> ...


For a legitimate reason, I have no problem with the Shuffle.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> Or they're in a market where a $20+ ride is rare and the only way to make any money is grinding it out. Yes, I will take $3.75 with less wear & tear than $3. As for tips, that's where strategy comes in. I do anywhere from 10 to 20 rides per day. I actively shuffle 2-5. I only purposefully shuffle rides that I know are going to be money losers. I'm full time in a small market and I'm managing to make it work.


People like you are my hero's ?‍♀! Most people I used to drive around for minimum fare never tipped me. So shuffling minimum fees is more of a survival skill than anything else. If I did not get 2/5 on a work day, and actually did the drive, I would feel so frustrated and degraded. People want to judge what others do for survival. Darwin never talked that nonsense and science took over moral books.


----------



## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> When you shuffle...you hide from the PAX....then you leave after the 3 minutes...so the PAX gets charged for you hiding? Correct?


Hi, your thread was merged with this one due to similarity of content. This message will self destruct, so no need to reply. Thanks.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> People like you are my hero's ?‍♀


Aw, thank you ?



I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> If I did not get 2/5 on a work day, and actually did the drive, I would feel so frustrated and degraded.


And that's the other part of this. Save your energy for the good rides with likely tippers. I feel so much better at the end of the day when I reach my shuffle quota ?


----------



## kcchiefsfan1982 (Aug 19, 2019)

reg barclay said:


> Hi, your thread was merged with this one due to similarity of content. This message will self destruct, so no need to reply. Thanks.


Inspector Gadget?


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> Then you, my friend, are a shuffler. Get off your high horse.


Haha, he said he will drive away and have the pax cancel. Then he feels morally superior than a shuffler and still collect a fee without providing service. He thinks stealing from the left pocket is bad, but he would steel from your right pocket.?


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> Inspector Gadget?


Mission Impossible.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

ariel5466 said:


> It's more like 2 out of 10 or 5 out of 20. Roughly. But if you really think that shuffling is wrong, how would 2 out of 20 be understandable to you? If it's wrong it's wrong, right?


"Shuffling" encompasses all cancels. You're "putting the card back in the deck", so to speak, so it can be shuffled to another driver and you can get another trip.

Then there's the Shirlington Shuffle, which is purposefully hiding from a pax to get the fee instead of driving them, and they haven't done anything wrong, per se. They have a service animal or wheelchair or luggage, etc. Whatever.

There are plenty of legit shuffles. No shows, little kids and no seats, unaccompanied minors, too drunk, too many people, and the list goes on.

Cancelling just because the driver doesn't want to take the trip for his/her own, allowed reason is legit, too, but then s/he shouldn't charge the pax the cancel fee, IMO... like when s/he doesn't want to go that far, etc. That is not the pax's fault in that case. They did nothing wrong that they should be charged for.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

SuzeCB said:


> Then there's the Shirlington Shuffle, which is purposefully hiding from a pax to get the fee instead of driving them


Oh, believe me, I know what the Shirlington Shuffle is ?


----------



## SuperDumped (Sep 6, 2019)

OldBay said:


> I would say that 10% of trips might be fubared from the start with a bad/impossible pickup location, or a pax that has unreasonable demands. If you are only shuffling 10%, thats not the same as intentionally screwing people. Although 10% is probably high. I usually just let the pax cancel while I run the other app if i dont like the trip.
> 
> For instance, I wouldn't take a ping at a walmart knowing what that usually entails. I think you would probably take these pings and hide somewhere in the parking lot.


so you just waste their time not money? LMAO hypocrite much? where im from time is money. bad vibe? hmmm thats an easy way to discriminate as well i dont like the cut of their jib ill just drive away im so ethical haha

no at walmart youre inside shopping by the time you get to the check out line you got a $5 off coupon or 2 , thats the only place i shuffle everything else i cancel or ignore, if no reply to my pretext by the time i get dressed its a cancel & thats on xl rates, x rates are comical & insulting to me, pool was opted out first day never have never will, i hear they don't let the employees do that anymore

priceless i tell ya wont "steal" $5 that they get credited back but will steal 5+ minutes can they get those 5+ minutes back?


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

SuperDumped said:


> so you just waste their time not money? LMAO hypocrite much? where im from time is money. bad vibe? hmmm thats an easy way to discriminate as well i dont like the cut of their jib ill just drive away im so ethical haha
> 
> no at walmart youre inside shopping by the time you get to the check out line you got a $5 off coupon or 2 , thats the only place i shuffle everything else i cancel or ignore, if no reply to my pretext by the time i get dressed its a cancel & thats on xl rates, x rates are comical & insulting to me, pool was opted out first day never have never will, i hear they don't let the employees do that anymore
> 
> priceless i tell ya wont "steal" $5 that they get credited back but will steal 5+ minutes can they get those 5+ minutes back?


See we have some morally challenged drivers out there.
?


----------



## UberXking (Oct 14, 2014)

You guys are clowns. $400 yesterday in 12 trips......$1,300 for the week tax free in just over 40 hours. Over $1,000 every week avg. 30 hours. Da King


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

UberXking said:


> You guys are clowns. $400 yesterday in 12 trips......$1,300 for the week tax free in just over 40 hours. Over $1,000 every week avg. 30 hours. Da King


Are you boasting or bragging. Maybe just showing off. That is really good for you. Great. It's not tax free, it's just other people carry your tax burden. You are in a great market, that's wonderful. Doesn't make others clowns by definition. It just means your in a good market, props. Trying to understand how one persons good income in good market makes others ? clowns. Maybe it doesn't and you have some inferiority complex showing. I'll pretend everyone other than you is a clown if it helps your self identity and I love to help insecure people like you feel better. Maybe we can do a whole thread on how your so great.?


----------



## 3.75 (Sep 29, 2017)

SuzeCB said:


> "Shuffling" encompasses all cancels. You're "putting the card back in the deck", so to speak, so it can be shuffled to another driver and you can get another trip.


It was never intended to be that. It was an inside joke that got traction on the board for being referenced a lot.

A "legit cancel" done by the books is just that. A cancel.

Sure, you can call a timer wait out on an undesireable ride a "shuffle" because the malice is done in the rider's face in some cases but the "shuffling" term always meant a ride never intended to be given.



SuzeCB said:


> Then there's the Shirlington Shuffle, which is purposefully hiding from a pax to get the fee instead of driving them, and they haven't done anything wrong, per se. They have a service animal or wheelchair or luggage, etc. Whatever.


The "shirlington shuffle" only happens in that specific place. That's all I can say there, just like the Delta Shuffle is a gag at one of the DC airports and the @New2This patented Qatar shuffle happens at another airport.

And it's not "the pax did nothing wrong", the pax always does something wrong. Pool and express pool get shuffled easily. 4.70 and lower rated pax are great candidates for shuffling. @koyotemohn can explain that in detail.



SuzeCB said:


> There are plenty of legit shuffles. No shows, little kids and no seats, unaccompanied minors, too drunk, too many people, and the list goes on.


No shows are legit cancels, not shuffles.

Little kids/unaccompanied minors and no child seats are shuffles if you wait the timer out in front of them or near them. The malice is that they see theyre not getting the ride and youre charging an inconvinience fee.

Too drunk is only a shuffle if you wait the timer out in front of them or near them. This one is more interesting because they usually get beligerent.



SuzeCB said:


> Cancelling just because the driver doesn't want to take the trip for his/her own, allowed reason is legit, too, but then s/he shouldn't charge the pax the cancel fee, IMO... like when s/he doesn't want to go that far, etc. That is not the pax's fault in that case. They did nothing wrong that they should be charged for.


Correct, its a shuffle if they purpusefully wait it out to get the fee. A cancel is just that, a cancel and a no show fee for legit pax not showing up is just a legit cancellation fee.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

3.75 said:


> It was never intended to be that. It was an inside joke that got traction on the board for being referenced a lot.
> 
> A "legit cancel" done by the books is just that. A cancel.
> 
> ...


You should just copy & paste this every time someone needs shuffling explained.


----------



## 3.75 (Sep 29, 2017)

ariel5466 said:


> You should just copy & paste this every time someone needs shuffling explained.


These threads get buried and i have no real time to search my own posts.


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

SuperDumped said:


> priceless i tell ya wont "steal" $5 that they get credited back but will steal 5+ minutes can they get those 5+ minutes back?


How long do you think it takes them to call CS and get it credited back? Much worse.

If they hail a car and its 10 minutes away, and then they see its 12 minutes away, they will cancel and get another.


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## koyotemohn (Mar 15, 2017)

“Thank you for picking me up...the other driver just left and I got charged for it!”

A ride starting off in the right direction.

“I have been waiting forever...I order this pool 12 minutes ago”

A ride that should have been shuffled.(amongst many)

Riders should be grateful somebody with a car shows up with a willingness to take their sorry behinds to wherever they think they need to go. Uber and lyft should be grateful someone is willing to do their dirty work.

Neither is often the case.

Shuffling is a weapon in class warfare.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

3.75 said:


> Winners make money. Losers moan and complain on a message board about morality.
> 
> Which one pays the bills on the first? Money or Morality?


This is the age old question, if someone is starving and steals a loaf of bread, do they deserve to be punished?

Those of us who are complaining about the morality of shuffling are not losers. We are the people that have high paying jobs when we are not ubering, and stealing a few dollars here and there doesn't make sense to us.

My feeling is that uber drivers are not starving (and if their income is too low, they are hopefully taking advantage of SNAP and other social services). So there is no justification to steal from customers.

While Uber may have once paid more and enabled someone to support a family, wages have dropped precisely because there are too many drivers. And there are so many drivers because people still feel it is worth their time to drive.

This is really about some technology fat cats getting rich by replacing a blue collar industry. And those early drivers feeling they are owed something because the fat cats got rich on their backs. You can go back even further. The origins of rideshare are smartphones, GPS, and mapping applications which lowered the skill ceiling for driving.

So many industries before taxi have been disrupted and destroyed by technology advances. This is nothing new.

The solution is to move on. Lots of states have free skill training programs. The solution is to learn welding, plumbing, electrician, or get your CDL and drive a big rig. If I didn't have a degree and work in a good field I would be looking into those.

Rideshare is an entertaining part time job that can be used in a pinch for extra money. If you're stealing from customers, you are stuck in a negative mindset and aren't on the right path.


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## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

OldBay said:


> The solution is to move on. Lots of states have free skill training programs. The solution is to learn welding, plumbing, electrician, or get your CDL and drive a big rig.


And what do you suggest should be done in the meantime, while people are still in school? The bills don't stop coming because I started working on getting a degree. And the flexibility of rideshare makes it ideal for students.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> And what do you suggest should be done in the meantime, while people are still in school? The bills don't stop coming because I started working on getting a degree. And the flexibility of rideshare makes it ideal for students.


When I was in school, I was making $6 an hour. I needed that money. Ramen noodles and potatoes were my staple foods. My car was worth $500.

Student loans are a ***** but eventually you will pay them off.


----------



## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Mkang14 said:


> Goes through my head every single dang time.
> 
> View attachment 354202


Now you have learned the shuffle


----------



## TwoFiddyMile (Mar 13, 2015)

Heres a new one:
Got "Bertha" at the Greyhound but there was no timer on the job.
What kind of ****ery is this?


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

OldBay said:


> When I was in school, I was making $6 an hour. I needed that money. Ramen noodles and potatoes were my staple foods. My car was worth $500.
> 
> Student loans are a @@@@@ but eventually you will pay them off.


That doesn't answer my question.


----------



## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Ramen noodles and potatoes


My friend would get fancy sometimes and put an egg in the ramen. Gourmet stuff


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

Gtown Driver said:


> My friend would get fancy sometimes and put an egg in the ramen. Gourmet stuff


I do that all the time, makes it almost like egg drop soup but with ramen ?


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> That doesn't answer my question.


What I would do is sell the nice car, move to within biking distance of your college campus (in the cheapest dump apartment there is), take out student loans and take classes full time to finish as quickly as possible.

Get a PT on-campus job. Most colleges have a job board for on-campus jobs that pay minimum wage. These jobs are flexible and can be scheduled around your classes. If you are somehow able to keep your nice car, do rideshare weekend nights instead of hanging with friends. If you have to get a junker, do Uber eats and DD instead. Make a few hundred each weekend to supplement your campus job.

If you are in your first two years, do it at a community college to save money.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

OldBay said:


> What I would do is sell the nice car, move to within biking distance of your college campus (in the cheapest dump apartment there is), take out student loans and take classes full time to finish as quickly as possible.
> 
> Get a PT on-campus job. Most colleges have a job board for on-campus jobs that pay minimum wage. These jobs are flexible and can be scheduled around your classes. If you are somehow able to keep your nice car, do rideshare weekend nights instead of hanging with friends. If you have to get a junker, do Uber eats and DD instead. Make a few hundred each weekend to supplement your campus job.
> 
> If you are in your first two years, do it at a community college to save money.


Okay, thank you, that's better. But it wouldn't work for me.

I'm doing as much as I can at community college first to save money. But I can't move. My husband and I moved to the Richmond area in February while I was making $500-$800 every week at a sales job. We chose our apartment based on that. Two months later I was fired without cause. We're stuck paying rent we can't afford for another five months until our lease runs out.

Can't sell my car - where we're currently living in Hanover county, a car is a necessity. I'm five miles away from the nearest bus stop. And I won't make much if any profit on it because I'm only a year and a half in on a five year payment plan.

A PT minimum wage job is out of the question. No way I'd be able to make enough money to pay my share of the rent & bills and still be able to eat and pay my health insurance premium. I'm 29 and returning to school, I'm not an 18 year old student still being supported by Mommy and Daddy.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Do you knock over vending machines too?


What did an innocent vending machine ever do to anyone?



Selector19 said:


> Now Uber and Lyft go after those who shuffle. If you develop a pattern and Uber/Lyft finds out about it, you will get deactivated. Intentional shuffling is fraud and those who do it deserve to be kicked out. Period!


Liar.



CJfrom619 said:


> Why veteran drivers think that canceling a ride is a profitable idea just makes no sense to me. Think it through.
> 
> 
> How effin pathetic and sad that is. I hope Im never in a position where I need money so bad that I have to scam hard working people out of $5. Get real clown.
> ...


Whoa there! Who shuffled you during a rainstorm?



DexNex said:


> example....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> I was "off the clock" at that point, and riding around with my husband in his car. Free money.


Nothing is free. You'll pay for it one way or another.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

R3drang3r said:


> Nothing is free. You'll pay for it one way or another.
> 
> View attachment 354555


I'll make sure you get a copy of my mugshot ?


----------



## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

ariel5466 said:


> I'll make sure you get a copy of my mugshot ?


Just hit me on the cell if they got the LivePD cameras. Shout out UPnet and stuff and try to get it done on your bday so we can sing happy bday to you


----------



## R3drang3r (Feb 16, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> I'll make sure you get a copy of my mugshot ?


 As long as it is a picture of the front of you. I've already seen your backside?


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> Okay, thank you, that's better. But it wouldn't work for me.
> 
> I'm doing as much as I can at community college first to save money. But I can't move. My husband and I moved to the Richmond area in February while I was making $500-$800 every week at a sales job. We chose our apartment based on that. Two months later I was fired without cause. We're stuck paying rent we can't afford for another five months until our lease runs out.
> 
> ...


My advice still holds. I'd get rid of the car if you still have four years on it. You probably won't lose anything. They usually structure loans so you don't get upside down. Get a cheaper car and a bike. Your new apartment will be really close to everything.

If you are gung ho about ubering and can complete 90 trips a week, get a rental for the short term. When your least is up, consider my advice. Two people with combined resources should be able to swing community college and bills. Also student loans. I think average loans is 30-40K these days. You've got to pay to play.

Your whole plan can be completely derailed by an accident, a major mechanical issue, or deactivation. House of cards.

Your problem is that because you are 29 you have higher standards and aren't willing to give them up.


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

If uber cared about their passengers, they would incentivize unprofitable rides with a pay structure that covered these situations, thereby making "shuffling", and any other driver tactic that reflects poorly on the company, obsolete. By not doing so, they show that they don't really care about their passengers and their needs. The responsibility falls squarely on them, not the driver.


----------



## highsky (Feb 15, 2017)

If minimum fare was $8, which is reasonable, people won't be shuffling and service would improve dramatically. $3 - $4 minimum fare is a big joke, it's not profitable and 90% of riders do not tip, so yea they deserve to be shuffled.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

OldBay said:


> My advice still holds.


Not for me it doesn't.



OldBay said:


> Get a cheaper car and a bike.


I have a 2015 Kia Forte. Nothing fancy but it's reliable. I don't see how a junker would be cheaper when you account for repairs and maintenance.



OldBay said:


> Your new apartment will be really close to everything.


I thought you were recommending the cheapest dump we can find? Well, that won't be near the community college. And it would be in a horrible neighborhood. And definitely not close to everything.



OldBay said:


> If you are gung ho about ubering and can complete 90 trips a week, get a rental for the short term.


I'd have to put in about 60 hours every week to get 90 trips in Richmond. When would I take classes or study?



OldBay said:


> Two people with combined resources should be able to swing community college and bills.


Yes, exactly. Two people. Making more than minimum wage. Which is why I'm doing things the way I am.



OldBay said:


> Your whole plan can be completely derailed by an accident, a major mechanical issue, or deactivation. House of cards.


That's why I plan ahead. About 20% of everything I make goes into a savings account so I'll have a cushion if/when shit hits the fan.



OldBay said:


> Your problem is that because you are 29 you have higher standards and aren't willing to give them up.


Because I don't want to drive a junker (or no car at all) and live in the ghetto? Yeah, I do have higher standards than that.


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

highsky said:


> If minimum fare was $8, which is reasonable, people won't be shuffling and service would improve dramatically. $3 - $4 minimum fare is a big joke, it's not profitable and 90% of riders do not tip, so yea they deserve to be shuffled.


I agree. The argument presented earlier about the competition being a restraint on prices seems compelling but really isn't at this level. Uber, or Lyft, has the chance to outdo the other by providing a service which is much more likely to actually take place. I think most people would be willing to pay an additional few dollars so that they are more certain to get a ride than have to deal with charges for rides that never took place. If either company keeps their low fees for the increased chance that the ride will get shuffled, then that's the pax who chooses that service choice. Although people don't want to pay "too much", my feeling is that most would actually want to have a higher likelihood of being able to take the ride for a few dollars more.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

Shuffling is good for healthy competition, the market always finds a way to correct itself.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

ariel5466 said:


> I do that all the time, makes it almost like egg drop soup but with ramen ?


Use chicken ramen and the egg and add a touch of lemon juice and you have "Almost Stracciatella"


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

ariel5466 said:


> Not for me it doesn't.
> 
> I have a 2015 Kia Forte. Nothing fancy but it's reliable. I don't see how a junker would be cheaper when you account for repairs and maintenance.
> 
> ...


I cant with him ?‍♀ ?????


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

highsky said:


> If minimum fare was $8, which is reasonable, people won't be shuffling and service would improve dramatically. $3 - $4 minimum fare is a big joke, it's not profitable and 90% of riders do not tip, so yea they deserve to be shuffled.





Überall said:


> I agree. The argument presented earlier about the competition being a restraint on prices seems compelling but really isn't at this level. Uber, or Lyft, has the chance to outdo the other by providing a service which is much more likely to actually take place. I think most people would be willing to pay an additional few dollars so that they are more certain to get a ride than have to deal with charges for rides that never took place. If either company keeps their low fees for the increased chance that the ride will get shuffled, then that's the pax who chooses that service choice. Although people don't want to pay "too much", my feeling is that most would actually want to have a higher likelihood of being able to take the ride for a few dollars more.


Here's the problem with the $8 minimum...

The pax is already paying that. In my area, the cabs are limited to charging their pax no more than $6 for that same ride. U/L are ALREADY charging more.

Increase the minimum fare, and pax will go back to taxis for the short rides. Which most U/L drivers wouldn't mind, right? Except that, like it or not, those minimum rides and the ones that are <$12 are U/L's bread & butter.

And then drivers would be complaining that every ping is taking them away from an area that should be surging soon...

Never gonna make everyone happy.


----------



## BoromirStark (May 23, 2019)

SuzeCB said:


> Increase the minimum fare, and pax will go back to taxis for the short rides. Which most U/L drivers wouldn't mind, right? Except that, like it or not, those minimum rides and the ones that are <$12 are U/L's bread & butter.


Exactly, it is quite difficult to long-haul on those shortest of rides and cut into U/L's margin.


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

BoromirStark said:


> Exactly, it is quite difficult to long-haul on those shortest of rides and cut into U/L's margin.


That wasn't what I meant. I meant that they make up the bulk of trips in general.


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

SuzeCB said:


> That wasn't what I meant. I meant that they make up the bulk of trips in general.


So, essentially uber almost has to turn a blind eye to "shuffling" and other tactics drivers will go to in order to not lose money... And passengers will have to accept the ever increasing possibility that their ride won't actually take place but they will be charged. So essentially.... Uber thinks drivers should subsidize the unprofitable trips, drivers think that passengers should subsidize the unprofitable trips, and passengers... they will pay one way or another.


----------



## Coastal_Cruiser (Oct 1, 2018)




----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Überall said:


> So, essentially uber almost has to turn a blind eye to "shuffling" and other tactics drivers will go to in order to not lose money... And passengers will have to accept the ever increasing possibility that their ride won't actually take place but they will be charged. So essentially.... Uber thinks drivers should subsidize the unprofitable trips, drivers think that passengers should subsidize the unprofitable trips, and passengers... they will pay one way or another.


There are always drivers who will take the short trips, for whatever reason. Sometimes they are desireable... a quick few dollars before finishing up for the day/night, something quick that won't take you long or far away from a place you want to stage yourself, etc.


----------



## ariel5466 (May 16, 2019)

SuzeCB said:


> There are always drivers who will take the short trips, for whatever reason. Sometimes they are desireable... a quick few dollars before finishing up for the day/night, something quick that won't take you long or far away from a place you want to stage yourself, etc.


I would still rather get $3.75 or $5 for those instead of $3


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Überall said:


> So, essentially uber almost has to turn a blind eye to "shuffling" and other tactics drivers will go to in order to not lose money... And passengers will have to accept the ever increasing possibility that their ride won't actually take place but they will be charged. So essentially.... Uber thinks drivers should subsidize the unprofitable trips, drivers think that passengers should subsidize the unprofitable trips, and passengers... they will pay one way or another.


Nope, business does not work that way. YOU will be deactivated.
?


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

SuzeCB said:


> There are always drivers who will take the short trips, for whatever reason. Sometimes they are desireable... a quick few dollars before finishing up for the day/night, something quick that won't take you long or far away from a place you want to stage yourself, etc.


Like I said, it's always going to be a pax trying to deduce the probability. Sure, I willingly take some short trips. But it still doesn't change the fact that it's going to be the "shuffle lottery". If uber doesn't mind the blowback from this, that's their choice.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

ariel5466 said:


> I would still rather get $3.75 or $5 for those instead of $3


Per insider info:

Big changes coming to the DC area. 
Cancellation fees to be eliminated.
?


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

OldBay said:


> What I would do is sell the nice car, move to within biking distance of your college campus (in the cheapest dump apartment there is), take out student loans and take classes full time to finish as quickly as possible.
> 
> Get a PT on-campus job. Most colleges have a job board for on-campus jobs that pay minimum wage. These jobs are flexible and can be scheduled around your classes. If you are somehow able to keep your nice car, do rideshare weekend nights instead of hanging with friends. If you have to get a junker, do Uber eats and DD instead. Make a few hundred each weekend to supplement your campus job.
> 
> If you are in your first two years, do it at a community college to save money.


Look, your points are totally valid. I have no opposition to anything you say. Some of it is even positive feedback I can use. But we all got into discussing the OP's situation and mostly talking about his particular case. Then people made side comments. My comment was not to judge others on what they do for survival. You don't know my situation, or the others that play the grey area. We have grievances and our own moral/survival codes based on life experience dictates our actions. Nobody brought up hard shuffling really. Barstool style. We mostly talked about OP's case. Then chatted around. Based on what the Pope explained this is called a cancel. It's the way the platform is set up. What would be considered a shuffle out in the streets was not even really really brought up here. So for the porous of this post Ibambgoing to stop


----------



## SuzeCB (Oct 30, 2016)

Überall said:


> Like I said, it's always going to be a pax trying to deduce the probability. Sure, I willingly take some short trips. But it still doesn't change the fact that it's going to be the "shuffle lottery". If uber doesn't mind the blowback from this, that's their choice.


What I think makes more sense is to fight for the return to percentages. I think it can be achieved by taking the approach that we are Uber's customers and, as such, have a right to know how the service charge they charge US (according to their own LEGALLY BINDING paperwork) will be calculated before any given ride.


----------



## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Per insider info:
> 
> Big changes coming to the DC area.
> Cancellation fees to be eliminated.
> ?


??????????????


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Nope, business does not work that way. YOU will be deactivated.
> ?


They could deactivate anyone who shuffles... but don't. It's not hard to see when it's happening by looking at driver's earnings. So, you may believe that you speak for uber, but Uber's tolerance speaks louder than your words.


----------



## highsky (Feb 15, 2017)

If PAX can't afford to pay $10-$12 for a private ride, they should take public transportation , paying driver $3.5 for a trip is criminal.
Pax pays $8 minimum, the vast majority in most markets will still continue to use Uber if it goes to $10 or $12, only a small % will go back to using public transportation.
Uber is much cheaper than Taxi in most cities, most PAX already know they are getting a bargain. Those who can't afford couple $$ increase belongs to public transportation.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Calling what cancel should be as shuffling. Most cancels are nicknamed shuffle and maybe that’s the confusion. Other than that, some people getting even in the only way they know, that’s personal choice and you are free to exercise your personal choice to do what would work that would also allow you to sleep well at night.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> Calling what cancel should be as shuffling. Most cancels are nicknamed shuffle and maybe that's the confusion. Other than that, some people getting even in the only way they know, that's personal choice and you are free to exercise your personal choice to do what would work that would also allow you to sleep well at night.


I sleep in between my 60 minute suspensions.



MiamiKid said:


> Per insider info:
> 
> Big changes coming to the DC area.
> Cancellation fees to be eliminated.
> ?


The stock is still going to tank, too bad for the lower-level employees unable to sell theirs in time. What do you think they will do?


----------



## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Per insider info:
> 
> Big changes coming to the DC area.
> Cancellation fees to be eliminated.
> ?


Rohit cant even fix a simple app issue.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Mkang14 said:


> Rohit cant even fix a simple app issue.


They can darn sure tighten up, and will, on cancellation fees.


----------



## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> They can darn sure tighten up, and will, on cancellation fees.


serious question

I want to turn over @SinTaxERROR to corporate ..

Walk me through your routine


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

SFOspeedracer said:


> serious question
> 
> I want to turn over @SinTaxERROR to corporate ..
> 
> Walk me through your routine


Yes I am the real Rohit... I'm gonna smack that ***** up :roflmao:

I had a pax the other day named Rohia. She was the African American version of Rohit ?


----------



## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

Can we get to 30 pages guyes?


----------



## SinTaxERROR (Jul 23, 2019)

Gtown Driver said:


> Can we get to 30 pages guyes?


I can only count to 20 ?‍♂


----------



## SFOspeedracer (Jun 25, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> I can only count to 20 ?‍♂


That is how many minutes it takes for me to get to 1455 market .. if I leave now and go 145 mph, they close shop at 8

Think if I mention code word Average or Stein I can get buzzed up no problem to make a formal corporate report


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

SinTaxERROR said:


> I can only count to 20 ?‍♂


If God intended man to count any higher, he would have given us more fingers and toes.



I will crack Lyft hacks said:


> Calling what cancel should be as shuffling. Most cancels are nicknamed shuffle and maybe that's the confusion. Other than that, some people getting even in the only way they know, that's personal choice and you are free to exercise your personal choice to do what would work that would also allow you to sleep well at night.


You see that's the problem. If you tell someone you shuffle, they may think hide shuffle is alright. Ambiguity in the terminology may have caused shuffling practices to escalate.

Like telling someone doing drugs is great. As a result, they get hooked on heroin but you really meant pot. Oops.


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> They can darn sure tighten up, and will, on cancellation fees.


Doubtful, but even if they did, then drivers will just devise another way to get their money. 
You're missing the point. If Uber does things that reduce driver's pay, many drivers will devise a way to make up for the money. 
It will take a while for Uber to figure out how its being done and, in the meantime, riders will have even more to worry about. 
If uber cared about either of their "partners", they would devise a way to incentivize unprofitable rides. There are ways that won't break the bank that most drivers would find reasonable. Uber: pro points aren't it.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Überall said:


> Doubtful, but even if they did, then drivers will just devise another way to get their money.
> You're missing the point. If Uber does things that reduce driver's pay, many drivers will devise a way to make up for the money.
> It will take a while for Uber to figure out how its being done and, in the meantime, riders will have even more to worry about.
> If uber cared about either of their "partners", they would devise a way to incentivize unprofitable rides. There are ways that won't break the bank that most drivers would find reasonable. Uber: pro points aren't it.


Pro points are nothing. And Uber needs to improve.

However, will not condone ripping off customers. Will call it out.

And guess what? In a court of law, 100% on this. Love to get the fraudsters in court.


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

Fraud? Hmm. No, no one mentioned fraud. I'd be interested to see how many drivers have been brought to trial so far for this "fraud" and "illegal" behavior you have mentioned over and over. 
Deactivation maybe. 
Maybe, if and when Uber figures it out, but like I said about shuffling, that's knowingly tolerated so I'm pretty sure most other methods drivers could devise would be as well. 
You saying that Uber will do this or that is simply not true. Sure, like you, Uber has little love for drivers, but I think they don't have much more for passengers. 
If they wanted to avoid the problems, they could easily incentivize unprofitable trips. Choosing not to hurts them as much, if not more, than any individual driver getting their cancelation fee withheld.


----------



## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Pro points are nothing. And Uber needs to improve.
> 
> However, will not condone ripping off customers. Will call it out.
> 
> And guess what? In a court of law, 100% on this. Love to get the fraudsters in court.


You mean Dara, Logan and Zimmer? Those fraudsters?

If, according to the IPO filing, drivers are Uber's customers too, do you condone drivers getting ripped off by Uber? Or will you call that out too?

Go ask the boys and girls in Uber Legal Department the likelihood of taking Shuffling drivers to court on your way out. They need a good laugh.


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

OldBay said:


> If God intended man to count any higher, he would have given us more fingers and toes.
> 
> 
> You see that's the problem. If you tell someone you shuffle, they may think hide shuffle is alright. Ambiguity in the terminology may have caused shuffling practices to escalate.
> ...


No, what caused hide shuffling is promoting low Cancelation rates, high Acceptance rates, and not properly incentivizing short rides.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

highsky said:


> If PAX can't afford to pay $10-$12 for a private ride, they should take public transportation , paying driver $3.5 for a trip is criminal.
> Pax pays $8 minimum, the vast majority in most markets will still continue to use Uber if it goes to $10 or $12, only a small % will go back to using public transportation.
> Uber is much cheaper than Taxi in most cities, most PAX already know they are getting a bargain. Those who can't afford couple $


Not, that I disagree with you at all here.

It's exactly why I ride less with Uber because my amount in tip has gone up exponentially higher then the usual 20-30% of the fare that I pay with taxis and sometimes the price is similar, only difference is Uber pockets the majority.

But the reason I'm quoting this. Because everyone says riders should be grateful they're getting pricing cheaper then taxis and therefore tip (again not disagreeing) but!

The whole reason it's cheaper to begin with is to price out the taxis and then eventually they were going to bring it back. Because when they started out, they started out with black-and I can tell you now, i never paid $100 for a taxi ride within city limits, max is $35 but I paid $100 for Uber black.

So guess that means less transactions and less riders willing to ride for $100 when they can have a taxi for $35 or less. This means less passengers or "pax" for the "drivers".

Basically, that's why they haven't raise the rates again much after lowering it and lowering it... because the demand wouldn't be there. How do they know? Statistically if the average American can't even keep $2000 in emergency savings... what makes you think they have $$ to blow on rides on a daily basis?

And thus the conundrum.



Überall said:


> Fraud? Hmm. No, no one mentioned fraud.


Definition of fraud is intention to deceive. This applies for the REAL SHUFFLING. The shuffling where one NEVER INTENDS TO PICK UP THE PASSENGER but accepts the ping anyways.

If you go there, and the passenger isn't there, and makes you wait until 4:90 and can't walk over to you in 10 seconds THIS IS FAKE SHUFFLING. if you go to where the pin tells you and the passenger doesn't look for you and is too _______ to realize that you're not there because they pin wrong, THIS IS NOT SHUFFLING.

Whether you participate in the former or latter, don't care-I don't ride Uber much these days... but back when I had 2000+ rides **correction, my year with Uber seems to be from a few years ago not last two years**, I did get the occasional donkey who would accept my ping and then just basically drive the other way. So I called lyft and just waited and waited until they canceled 1hr plus later after they've been parked by the Burlingame area for 30 plus minutes. And if there was no fee charge on my end. If they got to keep the $5 anyways, fine by me.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Überall said:


> Fraud? Hmm. No, no one mentioned fraud. I'd be interested to see how many drivers have been brought to trial so far for this "fraud" and "illegal" behavior you have mentioned over and over.
> Deactivation maybe.
> Maybe, if and when Uber figures it out, but like I said about shuffling, that's knowingly tolerated so I'm pretty sure most other methods drivers could devise would be as well.
> You saying that Uber will do this or that is simply not true. Sure, like you, Uber has little love for drivers, but I think they don't have much more for passengers.
> If they wanted to avoid the problems, they could easily incentivize unprofitable trips. Choosing not to hurts them as much, if not more, than any individual driver getting their cancelation fee withheld.


Nobody is forcing you to drive.
??


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Not, that I disagree with you at all here.
> 
> It's exactly why I ride less with Uber because my amount in tip has gone up exponentially higher then the usual 20-30% of the fare that I pay with taxis and sometimes the price is similar, only difference is Uber pockets the majority.
> 
> ...


Please list the number of drivers who have been convicted of fraud. If you weren't charged for the ride, your example wasn't fraud. This is why Uber will refund the cancelation fee to the pax, if pushed. They don't want courts going through their books.
So, how many drivers have been charged with fraud? If uber refunds the cancelation fee, is it fraud? It would seem that IF this type of no-intention shuffling were occurring, and we know that it is, and if uber does nothing, then it is accepted practice. I understand that, as a passenger you see this as fraud. But if Uber has incentivized this behavior, knows it happens, can know who does it yet does nothing, they are at least Co-conspirators and since they designed the app... likely the instigators. It's done by design.

Edit to add... As I said earlier, there are three "partners" in this... Uber makes drivers feel cheated, drivers make passengers feel cheated, and passengers choose other forms of transpertation. Doesn't sound like a winning business model to me. Especially considering that the partner with the power to change it immediately (Uber) refuses to do so.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Überall said:


> Please list the number of drivers who have been convicted of fraud. If you weren't charged for the ride, your example wasn't fraud. This is why Uber will refund the cancelation fee to the pax, if pushed. They don't want courts going through their books.
> So, how many drivers have been charged with fraud? If uber refunds the cancelation fee, is it fraud? It would seem that IF this type of no-intention shuffling were occurring, and we know that it is, and if uber does nothing, then it is accepted practice. I understand that, as a passenger you see this as fraud. But if Uber has incentivized this behavior, knows it happens, can know who does it yet does nothing, they are at least Co-conspirators and since they designed the app... likely the instigators. It's done by design.


Try to be a better person. 
?


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Überall said:


> Please list the number of drivers who have been convicted of fraud.


Not Uber so I can't tell you since I don't have access to their database and prosecuting someone for $5? ???

Doesn't make it any less of:

_wrongful_ or criminal _deception_ _intended to result in financial or personal gain._

Or being the key word.


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> Not Uber so I can't tell you since I don't have access to their database and prosecuting someone for $5? ???
> 
> Doesn't make it any less of:
> 
> ...


I would wonder about the supposed deception in not moving where the passenger can see the driver hasn't moved and can cancel within two minutes with no fee. Actually hiding would be tougher to justify but often happens be because the passenger isn't ready or makes pick up difficult. So, likely a small percentage were where they said they'd be when they said they'd be there. But hiding shuffling wouldn't even happen if driving people on unprofitable trips was properly incentivized. I don't think it actually has to cost the passenger any more than it does now... give a promise of a great trip to that driver after so many short trips, so many short trips gives the driver an extra $10, etc. Uber can figure it out.

But the fact remains... With the present ability to see that it takes place, knows conclusively that it takes place, and incentivizes it not only in the present compensation structure but also in the Uber Pro Rewards Program, and it can easily be stopped, I believe that Uber is responsible.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Überall said:


> I would wonder about the supposed deception in not moving where the passenger can see the driver hasn't moved and can cancel within two minutes with no fee. Actually hiding would be tougher to justify, but likely a small percentage and even that would be tough to prove. But wouldn't even happen if driving people on unprofitable trips was properly incentivized. I don't think it actually has to cost the passenger any more than it does now... give a promise of a great trip to that driver after so many short trips, so many short trips gives the driver an extra $10, etc.
> But the fact remains... With the present ability to see that it takes place, knows conclusively that it takes place, and incentivizes it not only in the present compensation structure but also in the Uber Pro Rewards Program, and it can easily be stopped, I believe that Uber is responsible.


Driver is totally responsible.


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Driver is totally responsible.


Lol. Nope, Uber is totally responsible, but honestly, doesn't matter because... .
1. Uber is the only one who can do anything about it. However, they refuse to do so effectively. 
2. They are the partner it ultimately affects";they have the most to lose. Yet, they would rather mollify drivers and passengers with cheap gestures instead of actually solving the problem.

I'm glad I don't own stock in a company that works actively against their economic interest.


----------



## sellkatsell44 (Oct 25, 2015)

Überall said:


> Lol. Nope, Uber is totally responsible.


So if you were a parent and you raised a child and the child went out to rob, kill, etc etc whatever crime, you're responsible?


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

SuzeCB said:


> What I think makes more sense is to fight for the return to percentages. I think it can be achieved by taking the approach that we are
> 
> 
> koyotemohn said:
> ...


the


New2This said:


> You mean Dara, Logan and Zimmer? Those fraudsters?
> 
> If, according to the IPO filing, drivers are Uber's customers too, do you condone drivers getting ripped off by Uber? Or will you call that out too?
> 
> Go ask the boys and girls in Uber Legal Department the likelihood of taking Shuffling drivers to court on your way out. They need a good laugh.


day I or my dear brothers and sisters in a fight, called " Class Warfare" by another po


Überall said:


> Please list the number of drivers who have been convicted of fraud. If you weren't charged for the ride, your example wasn't fraud. This is why Uber will refund the cancelation fee to the pax, if pushed. They don't want courts going through their books.
> So, how many drivers have been charged with fraud? If uber refunds the cancelation fee, is it fraud? It would seem that IF this type of no-intention shuffling were occurring, and we know that it is, and if uber does nothing, then it is accepted practice. I understand that, as a passenger you see this as fraud. But if Uber has incentivized this behavior, knows it happens, can know who does it yet does nothing, they are at least Co-conspirators and since they designed the app... likely the instigators. It's done by design.
> 
> Edit to add... As I said earlier, there are three "partners" in this... Uber makes drivers feel cheated, drivers make passengers feel cheated, and passengers choose other forms of transpertation. Doesn't sound like a winning business model to me. Especially considering that the partner with the power to change it immediately (Uber) refuses to do so.


good points. It's just like saying the driver has commuted an illegal act by transporting a minor. The same minor who is able to use the app, sign up and creative ride order under the U/L approval by not asking for id verification when riders sign up. Now they want to say the driver should be taken to court! What about the app that send the damn kids order to us. They are totally responsible for sending requests to us by minors.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

Überall said:


> Please list the number of drivers who have been convicted of fraud. If you weren't charged for the ride, your example wasn't fraud. This is why Uber will refund the cancelation fee to the pax, if pushed. They don't want courts going through their books.
> So, how many drivers have been charged with fraud? If uber refunds the cancelation fee, is it fraud? It would seem that IF this type of no-intention shuffling were occurring, and we know that it is, and if uber does nothing, then it is accepted practice. I understand that, as a passenger you see this as fraud. But if Uber has incentivized this behavior, knows it happens, can know who does it yet does nothing, they are at least Co-conspirators and since they designed the app... likely the instigators. It's done by design.
> 
> Edit to add... As I said earlier, there are three "partners" in this... Uber makes drivers feel cheated, drivers make passengers feel cheated, and passengers choose other forms of transpertation. Doesn't sound like a winning business model to me. Especially considering that the partner with the power to change it immediately (Uber) refuses to do so.


Zero drivers charged with anything remotely related to fraud.

Chicken littles: put up or shut up, cite ONE example of a driver being charged criminally for shuffling. A court case, reputable news story, surely you have something concrete and not just hot air? Otherwise you are just blowhards.

The adults in the thread realize that the last thing U/L want is through legal discovery their lies being exposed in an adversarial forum, on the public record.

Innocent businesspeople go to court to redress grievances.
Successful crooks will use violence to get what they feel they are owed.

Lying, lowlife sack-of-spit companies like U/L will do neither, they aren't innocent and they aren't tough. They did, however, con the masses of twittering morons into believing they had a sustainable idea.


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

sellkatsell44 said:


> So if you were a parent and you raised a child and the child went out to rob, kill, etc etc whatever crime, you're responsible?


Nope, because I really can't do anything about what my adult children do now or in the future. 
However, Uber *can* do something to stop the tactics drivers use to game the system almost immediately. 
But their responsibility comes through not only knowingly refusing to do so, but also designing the compensation and "Pro Reward Program" to actually promote these types of behaviors. You get what you reward.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

flataffect said:


> Zero drivers charged with anything remotely related to fraud.
> 
> Chicken littles: put up or shut up, cite ONE example of a driver being charged criminally for shuffling. A court case, reputable news story, surely you have something concrete and not just hot air? Otherwise you are just blowhards.
> 
> ...


That's it, keep up your slanderous lies about the company you work for.

Corporate is watching.


----------



## Chorch (May 17, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Per insider info:
> 
> Big changes coming to the DC area.
> Cancellation fees to be eliminated.
> ?


That would be the biggest mistake Uber can make....


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Nobody is forcing you to drive.
> ??


No, and when it gets to the point that I have a negative benefit to cost ratio, I'll leave.

But every time you write that no one is forcing me to drive, remember too that no one is forcing uber to knowingly partner with drivers who do these sorts of things. But they do, willingly.


----------



## MiamiKid (May 24, 2016)

Überall said:


> No, and when it gets to the point that I have a negative benefit to cost ratio, I'll leave.
> 
> But every time you write that no one is forcing me to drive, remember too that no one is forcing uber to knowingly partner with drivers who do these sorts of things. But they do, willingly.


Rationalizing?



Chorch said:


> That would be the biggest mistake Uber can make....


Totally agree. Which is why cancellation fees should be used selectively. And not intentional.


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

MiamiKid said:


> Rationalizing?


Projecting?


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

MiamiKid said:


> That's it, keep up your slanderous lies about the company you work for.
> 
> Corporate is watching.


So that's a "*NO*, I have no examples, just hot air, bluster and false bravado on an Internet forum."

Work for? Wait, I'm an employee? Lol, If you really are a shill for Uber you just made a declaration against interest! An exception to the hearsay rule! Run that past your legal department!


----------



## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Überall said:


> But the fact remains... With the present ability to see that it takes place, knows conclusively that it takes place, and incentivizes it not only in the present compensation structure but also in the Uber Pro Rewards Program, and it can easily be stopped, I believe that Uber is responsible.


Terrorists hide in population centers because they know the US military won't carpet bomb cities.

The same concept is true of shufflers. The reason that Uber doesn't clamp down on cancellation fees is because they know that it will impact honest drivers and may cause honest drivers to quit. Shufflers are doing the same thing as terrorists, hiding amongst the good drivers. They know they wont be (carpet bombed) not because Uber can't do it, but because of the impact to the honest drivers.

Cowards.


----------



## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

OldBay said:


> Shufflers are doing the same thing as terrorists
> Cowards.


Freedom Fighters, David v. Goliath.


----------



## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

OldBay said:


> Terrorists hide in population centers because they know the US military won't carpet bomb cities.
> 
> The same concept is true of shufflers. The reason that Uber doesn't clamp down on cancellation fees is because they know that it will impact honest drivers and may cause honest drivers to quit. Shufflers are doing the same thing as terrorists, hiding amongst the good drivers. They know they wont be (carpet bombed) not because Uber can't do it, but because of the impact to the honest drivers.
> 
> Cowards.


You're assuming that the only way to deal with shuffling is by eliminating fees. That simply is not true. Uber can easily deduce that a driver is shuffling, and yet they refuse to do anything about it. They don't have to pull the fee from every cancelation, why not just contact and warn the ones who have excessive shuffles and couple that with properly incentivizing unprofitable trips.


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## OldBay (Apr 1, 2019)

Überall said:


> You're assuming that the only way to deal with shuffling is by eliminating fees. That's simply is not not true. Uber can easily deduce that a driver is shuffling, and yet they refuse to do anything about it. They don't have to pull the fee from every cancelation, why not just deactivate the ones who have excessive shuffles and couple that with properly incentivizing unprofitable trips.


Yeah, we'll just send in a crack Marine platoon and all our problems will be solved!

No casualties, no hatred, it will be great!

When you think seriously about HOW to do it, it's not so simple. If they deactivate someone with excessive cancels, they will catch some good drivers, but even if not it will turn drivers even more against them. And of course, if the other platform doesn't enforce it the same way, then more drivers will be working for the other side.

Really, not easy to implement a solution at all.


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## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

Punishment just doesn't work well, therein lies the issue. Properly incentivizing unprofitable trips would solve the problem.


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## M62 (Sep 6, 2019)

Überall said:


> Properly incentivizing unprofitable trips would solve the problem.


I disagree. I think it would lessen the problem, but not solve it.

That would be kind of like saying, raising wages for low end jobs sould solve the problem of people who actively choose to live on welfare over those jobs. While it might cause some to take those jobs over welfare, others will still prefer to do nothing for less pay.


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## Überall (Aug 4, 2019)

M62 said:


> I disagree. I think it would lessen the problem, but not solve it.
> 
> That would be kind of like saying, raising wages for low end jobs sould solve the problem of people who actively choose to live on welfare over those jobs. While it might cause some to take those jobs over welfare, others will still prefer to do nothing for less pay.


Not, it actually isn't as likely to continue as you think. The hard (hiding) shuffle has a sunken cost. The driver may not think about that, but it doesn't mean that it isn't there. 
Uber is currently incentivizing these behaviors by a small partial payment of the driver's sunken cost either through a shuffle (less loss for driver) or driving these trips (more loss for driver). Instead of drivers choosing to lose less, I think people would actually chose to earn more if that option were available.

Most drivers want to make money. Incentivize more than the sunken cost on every ride, and there will be drivers willing to take these trips.


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## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

flataffect said:


> Freedom Fighters, David v. Goliath.


One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighting hero!
Simple non controversial Example
Revolutionary armed forces of Columbia, FARC vs Columbia 
Irish ☘ Republican Party, Ireland vs England
African national congress, Mandela vs South Africa 
I can keep going all the way to Zionist party,
Israel Vs Palestine, but that is more complex for the simpleton!


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

MiamiKid said:


> Corporate is watching.


Dear Corporate: GFY


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## flataffect (Jan 19, 2018)

New2This said:


> Dear Corporate: GFY


Corporate is watching like a depraved pervert.


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## SoontobeformerUberSlave (Aug 8, 2019)

Just shuffled some high school girls. I don’t really consider it a shuffle tho since they’re unaccompanied minors. Great way to start the day ?.


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## Jlynn (Jul 24, 2019)

kcchiefsfan1982 said:


> not worried, just passing on judgement, in case they are blind to their own evil spirit.


They aren't blind. They know exactly what they are doing. They do it anyway.



Amsoil Uber Connect said:


> When a parent knowingly puts a driver in a position of breaking a state law of no minors with out an adult present. Tuff $h!t.
> 
> I will be paid to do Uber / Lyft's dirty work.


I have to say, these are the occasions when I shuffle. I also shuffle when they never had any intentions of making sure they had a car seat for the kids required to be in one.


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## Jlynn (Jul 24, 2019)

UberXking said:


> You guys are clowns. $400 yesterday in 12 trips......$1,300 for the week tax free in just over 40 hours. Over $1,000 every week avg. 30 hours. Da King


Lucky you. I will never see that in my market. It just isn't possible here.


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## sktexas (Aug 13, 2019)

SoontobeformerUberSlave said:


> Have had 2 instances of doing this on purpose. I never put serous thought into shuffling full time. I might start now. This guy had a post on here with a 2% acceptance rate showing all his cancellations. Might just start this up as a business model. Uber has taught me to pick up on people's entitlement, attitude, and @@@@ery. Might just shuffle passengers I sense are shitheads. I've eaten 2 ubereats after I went on a missions finding someone's door. Snowflakes can't walk outside their complex to meet me.


Dear Uber Eats Customer, ever wonder why it takes so long to get your food? I'll tell you! It's because you ordered from some sh-thole place that has no parking 8 miles away from you in rush hour and then your delivery driver finally gets your food and heads your way only to learn he has to wait again because you didn't provide a "gate code" to your ultra lux apartment complex (of which you live all the way in the back of) which has hard to find building numbers and few if any places to park, and then has to traverse up 3 flights of stairs in the summer heat..... at the end of which you stiff him/her on the tip. Yeah.... like people are just lining up for THAT job!


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## Gtown Driver (Aug 26, 2018)

flataffect said:


> Freedom Fighters, David v. Goliath.


I approve of shuffling avatar


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

sktexas said:


> Dear Uber Eats Customer, ever wonder why it takes so long to get your food? I'll tell you! It's because you ordered from some sh-thole place that has no parking 8 miles away from you in rush hour and then your delivery driver finally gets your food and heads your way only to learn he has to wait again because you didn't provide a "gate code" to your ultra lux apartment complex (of which you live all the way in the back of) which has hard to find building numbers and few if any places to park, and then has to traverse up 3 flights of stairs in the summer heat..... at the end of which you stiff him/her on the tip. Yeah.... like people are just lining up for THAT job!


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

New2This said:


> View attachment 392373


&#128527; Tisk Tisk


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## ctdude6969 (Sep 14, 2019)

Had a nice shuffle, but I really wouldn't classify it as a shuffle tonight.... On Uber, get a ping for a ride a half mile away from me, passenger is a 5.0 rating. I accept, drive there, customer texts me it's a blue house with a deck with lighting on the side. I easily and quickly arrive. The initial 2 minutes go by and the lady approaches, as her husband is just pulling in the driveway coming home from wherever. She says give her a couple minutes, they just have to bring their dog inside and they are just going to a restaurant 3 minutes away, it's a quick trip.

I'm thinking great, they're going to come out at the last second and get in for a cheap $3 - $4 ride when I could have spent the time waiting for a more lucrative ride (I'm an Uber Blue member with 360 points, my AR isn't high enough to see where they're going). The lady returns at 4 minutes, tells me to roll down the window. Says her husband is too drunk and he's had enough to drink tonight, they will be staying home. She'll just take the cancellation fee (I received $3.91 from it) and then she says Merry Christmas and hands me a $10 bill. Not mad at that!


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

Mkang14 said:


> &#128527; Tisk Tisk
> View attachment 392379


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## ctdude6969 (Sep 14, 2019)

At the end of the day...


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