# On average Uber drivers make min wage



## BurgerTiime (Jun 22, 2015)

Uber drivers earn about $15.68 an hour but disparities are significant, survey finds

*Uber drivers earn about $15.68 an hour but disparities are significant, survey finds*

By Fredrick Kunkle January 26 at 3:20 PM
pushing for the minimum wage.

The survey of active drivers for Uber, Lyft and other rideshare services also found that Lyft is overall a better deal for drivers, both in pay and satisfaction.

But what's perhaps most striking were pay disparities uncovered by the survey: African American drivers for Lyft and Uber reported making an average $13.96 an hour, compared to $16.08 for all Uber and Lyft drivers. Women earned less than men at $14.26 an hour.

In other words, the new gig economy is looking in some ways like the old one.

"The trend is, honestly, I think, not positive," said Harry Campbell, who conducted the driver survey. 
The pay is becoming more akin to a service worker like McDonald's or like Burger King."

Unlike the broader economy, however, the survey - which can be found here -found that younger drivers earned more. That finding that could mean that older drivers are less enthusiastic about driving at night and weekends, when fares are at their highest, Campbell said. It could also mean that older drivers encounter more hassles trying to make the technology work.

"The number one complaint I hear from older drivers? There's no phone call to call at Uber," Campbell said. "And it could be things as simple as just navigating the app. Someone like me, who's only 30, grew up with apps and smartphones and really understands how to troubleshoot, how to overcome the smallest of little problems. . ."

Campbell, of Los Angeles, is a former Uber driver who quit his job as an aerospace engineer to blog full-time about rideshare services. In 2013 he launched the Rideshare Guy, which gets more than 400,000 unique visitors a month.

Earlier this month, Campbell sent his survey to nearly 30,000 blog subscribers. He received 1,150 responses, up from 453 drivers last year. Most came from subscribers, with additional responses from social media or the blog itself, he said.

An online study of drivers conducted for Uber by Benenson Strategy Group found higher levels of satisfaction and more diversity. The Uber survey - which drew on 601 interviews in December 2014 and 833 interviews in November 2015 - said more than 80 percent of drivers were satisfied overall, especially with its flexible schedule. Twenty-four percent were African American, and 20 percent were Latino, Uber's survey found.

Campbell said that, based on his discussions with drivers and the results of the survey, the fast-growing fleet of rideshare drivers is made up of older, college-educated white people who are hustling for pocket money in their spare time, often because they've been downsized from other jobs or they're finding retirement tougher than they thought. A wage of $16 an hour doesn't sound too bad until you start deducting the cost of fuel, car payments, taxes and so on.

"When you look at it, you know, 15 bucks an hour is not a lot of money," Campbell said. "Yet Uber is still touting that this is sort of this new way of work. But I think the only thing new about it is the flexibility, to some degree. I think that's the only value proposition to some."

More than 78 percent of survey respondents identified themselves as white, compared with about 7 percent for African Americans and Latinos. More than 53 percent also said they had at least a bachelor's degree, compared with a national average of 33 percent.

More than half the respondents said that less than half or very little of their income comes from driving for a rideshare firm. Only 201 people, or 17.5 percent, said all or almost all of their income came from working for Uber or the other companies. The survey found, to no one's surprise, that one of the most valued things about driving for Uber was flexibility.

The survey found that Lyft drivers gross $17.50 an hour on average and that drivers liked working for Lyft more than Uber: nearly 76 percent expressed satisfaction with Lyft, compared with about 49 percent for Uber. The study also found that Uber drivers prefer taking passengers arranged through a single call over UberPool's service for multiple fares.

"[F]or me, that wasn't necessarily a surprise, but it was for some people, seeing that Lyft drivers are a little happier [and that] Lyft drivers make a little more money," Campbell said. "That's sort of something I've always felt literally from day 1 when I started driving for Lyft and Uber three years ago."

And yet 75 percent of the respondents drove with Uber primarily, compared with about 20 percent for Lyft.

Campbell said the most surprising finding was the disparity among different groups of drivers.

Although many more women drive for app-based rideshare companies than those who work for traditional taxi and limousine services, women also earn less: $14.26 an hour, versus $16.61, the survey found. Younger drivers between the ages of 18 and 30 also did better than those 61 years and older, earning $17.98 compared with $14.57. That's true even though there is a higher proportion of older drivers; 54 percent of the surveyed drivers are 51 or over; nearly 78 percent are at least 41 years old. Uber's survey found 47 percent of its drivers were at least 40.

"Drivers don't make that much money, I guess would be the best way to sum it up," Campbell said. "It's more of a backup plan. They can't get hired. They have social security but it's not enough. They have a small pension, but it's not enough. Their spouse is still working and they need to bring in some kind of income. So it's sort of like providing an opportunity to them but it also speaks to the larger economic issues.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nificant-survey-finds/?utm_term=.7b65fee71d7b


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## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

For me it depends when I drive.

If I drive at noon on a Wednesday, I make LESS than minimum wage BEFORE expenses.

If I drive at midnight on a Friday Night/Saturday Morning, I make MORE than minimum wage AFTER expenses.

Expenses are also a bit tricky to figure. I can only really guess how long it is until my car craps out.

Overall, it'd be hard to guess my average $/hr but I have a lot of flexibility over what $/hr I want to make.

Sometimes I drive on Wednesday at noon for $5/hr before expenses because the alternative is I'd not be making any money and I have nothing better to do.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

"The pay is becoming more akin to a service worker like McDonalds or like Burger King."
Wow, that's pathetic. You really needed a survey to come up with that finding. Just basic math skills could of shown that.


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## Notch Johnson (Dec 17, 2016)

When comparing your hourly pay you have to factor in the lost benefits most employers provide with full time work:

Employer contribution to social security
Vacation time
Sick time
Paid holidays
health insurance
401k match

As an independent contractor you probably need to make about $22 an hour for the equivalent compensation of a $15 an hour job, and that is after expenses.


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## sfodriver (Nov 19, 2016)

I'm really tired of seeing that survey referenced. It's just one survey that was offered to an audience that may not accurately reflect the driver pool as a whole. Meaning, it was offered to that website's audience which may not be an accurate sample.

Just read through the forums here and Lyft drivers aren't much happier than Uber drivers. Also, "happiness" is likely to vary based on geography. Anecdotally we know that passengers in San Francisco, for instance, are less likely to tip than passengers in other cities...leading to greater driver dissatisfaction on both Lyft and Uber.

And about minorities getting paid less...well, that doesn't even make sense. The platforms are blind to discrimination. The only way there could be a difference is either through tips or that in certain areas, with lower rates, a greater number of drivers consist of minorities or women.


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## Uberyouber (Jan 16, 2017)

The pay is becoming more akin to a service worker like McDonald’s or like Burger King.

Would you rather be on your feet flipping burgers for eight hours or sitting in your air conditioned car???


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## Bean (Sep 24, 2016)

sfodriver said:


> It's just one survey that was offered to an audience that may not accurately reflect the driver pool as a whole. Meaning, it was offered to that website's audience which may not be an accurate sample.


I agree. And that particular slice of the driver population I would say is seeking advice, and finding ways to improve their earnings. So sadly, the real numbers (when including the clueless ants that are driving around aimlessly) are probably much worse. We've all heard horror stories from our pax about drivers who can't even operate their own phones etc.
Let's face it, the people on these boards and those researching on youtube and elsewhere are a minority.


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## gofry (Oct 20, 2015)

Surveys of this sort are wildly inaccurate, as no one likes to admit how little money they are making or how unsuccessful they are.

$8 an hour is a more accurate estimate of take home pay for most markets.

As for the Rideshare Guy, he makes money on a blog talking about ridesharing, so he will never publish the dire truth.


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## Bean (Sep 24, 2016)

gofry said:


> As for the Rideshare Guy, he makes money on a blog talking about ridesharing, so he will never publish the dire truth.


This is an important thing to understand too. Most of the guys on youtube promoting Uber barely even drive anymore. They're making their money off referrals and youtube monitization. Not only are they not going to talk about how little drivers are actually making but they may themselves be out of touch with the realities because they barely have to drive anymore.

Personally I still watch all their stuff because there's a lot of good tips and insight there but I don't let them dazzle me with any ideas of riches. Most of those guys started during the good old days and act like we can all make it big too, when really, that window has closed a long time ago.


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## Atom guy (Jul 27, 2016)

Only Uber drivers are obsessed with their "after expenses" income. Everyone else just says "I make $15/hour," not " I make $10/hour after I deduct my state and federal taxes, medicare tax, social security tax, gas, food, and depreciation on my car for my drives to work."

Uber drivers: you run your own business and your mileage deduction, uber fee deduction, etc will completely wipe out your income when you do your taxes, so you aren't going to pay ANY taxes at the end of the year. Yet somehow, every Wednesday, money gets direct deposited into your account. 

I took at $19,500 mileage deduction for the 48,000 miles I drove on the $10,000 car I bought for Uber. And I'll do the same thing next year. And the year after that.


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## Bean (Sep 24, 2016)

Atom guy said:


> Only Uber drivers are obsessed with their "after expenses" income. Everyone else just says "I make $15/hour," not " I make $10/hour after I deduct my state and federal taxes, medicare tax, social security tax, gas, food, and depreciation on my car for my drives to work."


I'm sick of this too. The only real expense we have is gas and maybe oil.. and if you're paying somebody to change your oil you're wasting your money.

The car I have I would have bought even if I wasn't doing Uber. I'm going to drive it into the ground and I have no intention of ever selling it. I also don't plan on doing Uber full time for more than another few months. So depreciation is quite irrelevant to me.


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## Shangsta (Aug 15, 2016)

Bean said:


> I'm sick of this too. The only real expense we have is gas and maybe oil


And any repairs you have to do to your car. That is a real expense.

I do agree the per hour business is silly. I only evaluate my earnings now on how much I make per mile. If I drive 40 miles from door to door I want to make at least a dollar per mile. If you are making 100 dollars in 5 hours but it takes you 160-180 miles to do it. You are losing money.


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## Bean (Sep 24, 2016)

True true repairs are a real cost too. We'd all like to pretend we won't have any but of course that's wishful thinking.

I like the idea of going by $per mile. I may have to start looking at things that way and see how I'm doing.


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## shiftydrake (Dec 12, 2015)

You guys wanna know how I look at what I make?......as a taxi driver?......I am an owner/operator so I only pay the company I drive for $349 a week......that's it everything else I collect goes in my pocket.......so let's say in 1 week I collect $1400.00 total revenue.......so out of that $ I pay company $349..........down to $1051.....figure $20 a day for gas......6 days $120.......down to $931.....$31 a week for daily coffee....down to $900........I take that $900 and divide into 2 piles....1 pile $300...1 pile $600.........I take the $300 pile put into special account nicknamed specially in the bank..........what's left you ask?........$600 that's what I have left.........each week the nicknamed account grows and grows ..........maintenance time? I tap into nicknamed account .......so there you go guys .....$600 a week I clear.......that is how I calculate what I make I don't look at each day or each ride or what wear and tear does I bought this car explicitly to turn into taxi........so i knew what I would be doing to it when I bought it.......it is NOT a surprise when maintenance arises................13 years and going strong...................


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## Vampire76 (Aug 16, 2015)

Uberyouber said:


> The pay is becoming more akin to a service worker like McDonald's or like Burger King.
> 
> Would you rather be on your feet flipping burgers for eight hours or sitting in your air conditioned car???


Depends if your earnings are so low that you can't afford to get it regassed


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## FL_Dex (Nov 13, 2016)

The article earning figure is right in line with my own research. Expenses vary with what kind of vehicle you drive, so there is no one break even number that works for everyone. You can beat that figure with a better driving strategy, especially if you live in an area of high population density, but you can't do it routinely. Distribution bites everyone at some point. Doing your own oil changes and detailing would definitely help but you'd actually make more money setting up a business to clean other people's cars. 

I think a lot of drivers are figuring they would have vehicle maintenance anyway. 

Also true that if you're willing to haul drunks after bar time, with all the associated unpleasantness that involves, you can beat that figure routinely. That is where younger drivers have an edge. When I'm dealing with a belligerent drunk I have to resist the impulse to club them into unconsciousness like a baby seal. That might get blood on the seats, which would be a b!tch to get out. 

The thing even with a minimum wage job is it doesn't carry the risks that driving for Uber entails. Flipping burgers carries no risk of traffic tickets, accidents, judgments, regulatory fines, a-hole pax and a lifetime of higher insurance rates. The essence of business is risk vs reward and, by that test, Uber is a spectacular failure. 

Almost anything you can do with your time, including a minimum wage job, pays more than driving for Uber. That is a sad but true statement.


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