# Does your insurance company know you Uber?? What if......



## Kaz

This is an issue. I have not told my insurance company I do this even though they asked me if I used my car for a taxi, etc. Im sorry but I know for a fact your insurance company will deny a claim or cancel your policy if they find out youre Ubering. Allstate, State Farm, they're all catching on to this. If you are involved in an accident, even while on your own time, if your insurance company finds out you do this, you are busted. I may call another insurance company and ask for a quote on a taxi policy but I think its going to be alot of work to get a policy for this. If you get into an accident, your fault or no, and you are NOT on a call but you are online, will UBER cover you? Does anyone know the answer to this? I would feel better if I saw something in writing and UBER does not give us alot of info. Thanks-


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## chi1cabby

Kaz said:


> I may call another insurance company and ask for a quote on a taxi policy but I think its going to be alot of work to get a policy for this.


You can't buy a commercial livery insurance for your personal car.


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## Former Yellow Driver

Kaz said:


> If you are involved in an accident, even while on your own time, if your insurance company finds out you do this, you are busted


"Busted"? What does that mean? After they pay for your claim they drop your insurance or they refuse the non Uber related claim? BTW - how do they determine that you occasionally do Ubering if you don't tell them and your accident was not Uber related?


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## where's the beef?

chi1cabby said:


> You can't buy a commercial livery insurance for your personal car.


Catch-22, Uber style...
damned if you do and damned if you don't...
damn you, Travis !!!


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## Kaz

Former Yellow Driver said:


> "Busted"? What does that mean? After they pay for your claim they drop your insurance or they refuse the non Uber related claim? BTW - how do they determine that you occasionally do Ubering if you don't tell them and your accident was not Uber related?


Yes, you are BUSTED if your insurance company finds out. When I called my insurance company recently to update some info, the rep asked me "Do you use your car for any taxi or business purposes..." And someone who used to be a licensed insurance agent told me Uber-ing is risky and my rates will skyrocket if my insurance company finds out. And by not disclosing this to them, we're basically fraudulently obtaining a policy for lower rates. If you have to file a claim for any reason and your insurance co finds out you Uber, you will be canceled and claim denied. It says in all of the insurance docs youre sent about making false statements, etc. I don't mean to scare but there is alot of risk involved in doing this.


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## UberFrolic

Define "finding out".


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## where's the beef?

Don't ask, don't tell...
That's my motto for now...


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## Former Yellow Driver

Kaz said:


> If you are involved in an accident, even while on your own time, if your insurance company finds out you do this, you are busted


"Busted"? What does that mean? After they pay for your claim they drop your insurance or they refuse the non Uber related claim? BTW - how do they determine that you occasionally do Ubering if you don't tell them and your accident was not Uber related?

Thanks for info @Kaz ....but your response didn't specifically answer my questions. I understand about lying to insurance companies and fraud....those were not my questions.


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## Kaz

Former Yellow Driver said:


> "Busted"? What does that mean? After they pay for your claim they drop your insurance or they refuse the non Uber related claim? BTW - how do they determine that you occasionally do Ubering if you don't tell them and your accident was not Uber related?
> 
> Thanks for info @Kaz ....but your response didn't specifically answer my questions. I understand about lying to insurance companies and fraud....those were not my questions.


BUSTED can mean, having your claim denied all together and being cancelled, thats what I mean. Nothing particularly law-breaking and the police have better things to do than go after UBER drivers whose insurance companies have no idea what they're doing. Especially when there are tens of thousands of people driving without any coverage at all and just don't care. Adjustors are sneaky, I deal with them at my full time job. It is risky UBER-ing, thats why hopefully it's worth it if youre making some money. An accident off-duty and completely unrelated to UBERING can still blow up in your face if your insurance company determines you're using your vehicle to transport people for money. On another forum, someone was blasting off on how we're all committing fraud and that only a commerical policy actually protects us 24/7 but my understanding is, you cant take out a commercial policy on a personal vehicle, no insurance company will do this. This was already posted by someone who made the mistake of telling their insurance company they UBER. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If we can't take out a private policy on our personal vehicle, what are we supposed to do??? It really sucks. Mostly every driver on here is in the agreement, dont tell your insurance company and just hope nothing happens. Not very calming, truthfully.


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## where's the beef?

Kind of exciting, actually...


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## Yougottabekiddingme!

Another Uber oversight. Imagine that


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## Yougottabekiddingme!

Or intentional undersite, imagine that


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## scrurbscrud

Kaz said:


> BUSTED can mean, having your claim denied all together and being cancelled, thats what I mean. Nothing particularly law-breaking and the police have better things to do than go after UBER drivers whose insurance companies have no idea what they're doing. Especially when there are tens of thousands of people driving without any coverage at all and just don't care. Adjustors are sneaky, I deal with them at my full time job. It is risky UBER-ing, thats why hopefully it's worth it if youre making some money. An accident off-duty and completely unrelated to UBERING can still blow up in your face if your insurance company determines you're using your vehicle to transport people for money. On another forum, someone was blasting off on how we're all committing fraud and that only a commerical policy actually protects us 24/7 but my understanding is, you cant take out a commercial policy on a personal vehicle, no insurance company will do this. This was already posted by someone who made the mistake of telling their insurance company they UBER. You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. *If we can't take out a private policy on our personal vehicle, what are we supposed to do??? It really sucks. *Mostly every driver on here is in the agreement, dont tell your insurance company and just hope nothing happens. *Not very calming, truthfully*.


What we are doing is blatantly ILLEGAL. *We drive when app off with no insurance, period. And we HOPE the insurance companies will play nice and 'cover us.' What a freakin' JOKE! Do you really think they are on your ILLEGAL side? hahahahahaahahahah*

There is no escaping this fact and it should be uncomfortable for every driver and every citizen.


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## Worcester Sauce

Kaz said:


> Yes, you are BUSTED if your insurance company finds out. When I called my insurance company recently to update some info, the rep asked me "Do you use your car for any taxi or business purposes..." And someone who used to be a licensed insurance agent told me Uber-ing is risky and my rates will skyrocket if my insurance company finds out. And by not disclosing this to them, we're basically fraudulently obtaining a policy for lower rates. If you have to file a claim for any reason and your insurance co finds out you Uber, you will be canceled and claim denied. It says in all of the insurance docs youre sent about making false statements, etc. I don't mean to scare but there is alot of risk involved in doing this.





scrurbscrud said:


> What we are doing is blatantly ILLEGAL. *We drive when app off with no insurance, period. And we HOPE the insurance companies will play nice and 'cover us.' What a freakin' JOKE! Do you really think they are on your ILLEGAL side? hahahahahaahahahah*
> 
> There is no escaping this fact and it should be uncomfortable for every driver and every citizen.


What exactly does the Uber insurance policy cover?


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## pengduck

Kaz said:


> This is an issue. I have not told my insurance company I do this even though they asked me if I used my car for a taxi, etc. Im sorry but I know for a fact your insurance company will deny a claim or cancel your policy if they find out youre Ubering. Allstate, State Farm, they're all catching on to this. If you are involved in an accident, even while on your own time, if your insurance company finds out you do this, you are busted. I may call another insurance company and ask for a quote on a taxi policy but I think its going to be alot of work to get a policy for this. If you get into an accident, your fault or no, and you are NOT on a call but you are online, will UBER cover you? Does anyone know the answer to this? I would feel better if I saw something in writing and UBER does not give us alot of info. Thanks-


Hey Uber here's your chance to make more money selling us insurance. Don't miss the boat!


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## cybertec69

No problem here in nyc "we are regulated to the hilt" , no one can operate any type of taxi business without commercial Taxi or FHV policy, without this policy you are not getting any Taxi or FHV TLC license plates, and without those license plates and yearly commercial registration and 3 yearly inspections you are not doing any taxi work. That's why here in nyc us uberx drivers have been shafted without any grease. Also no one else can drive the car with the TLC license plates except you, not the wife, kids, girlfriend, mom, dad, friends, no one but you. Here it's a business not a part time hobby.


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## Realityshark

Kaz said:


> Yes, you are BUSTED if your insurance company finds out. When I called my insurance company recently to update some info, the rep asked me "Do you use your car for any taxi or business purposes..." And someone who used to be a licensed insurance agent told me Uber-ing is risky and my rates will skyrocket if my insurance company finds out. And by not disclosing this to them, we're basically fraudulently obtaining a policy for lower rates. If you have to file a claim for any reason and your insurance co finds out you Uber, you will be canceled and claim denied. It says in all of the insurance docs youre sent about making false statements, etc. I don't mean to scare but there is alot of risk involved in doing this.


Everything you have stated is true as I understand it. The insurance / liability / issue is one of my greatest fears. I personally believe that this will ultimately be the straw that causes the next big changes in ride sharing. The insurance companies are going to want their cut and some new rules will go into effect. A few more negative Uber headlines, car crashes, drunk Uber drivers and stuff like that. I predict change will come and Uber X drivers will take the hit. Anyone who is playing this game and not telling their insurance company about it is playing Russian roulette.


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## Worcester Sauce

Worcester Sauce said:


> What exactly does the Uber insurance policy cover?


app on, or app off, or even if the phone is not in the car. Uber shows me as an "active driver", with my car info and license plate number. This can NOT be good


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## Courageous

pengduck said:


> Hey Uber here's your chance to make more money selling us insurance. Don't miss the boat!


That's not so far fetched. I've actually wondered all along why they haven't started this already. There would be serious profit.


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## scrurbscrud

The difficulty is this is largely new territory for legislation/insurance/legal issues. Society is still catching up. Uber came up with a supposedly creative way to skirt taxi/livery/cab/limo existing legislation and nothing more than this. Not saying it's bad. Cab service was/is bad and prior to ride share you couldn't find a reasonable service, so they were RIPE for a creative capitalist style attack to begin with. Piss poor customer service demands changes. After most of the dotgovs of this country started taking out drunk driving by nailing hundreds of thousands with 'rightful' DUI's this problem demanded an ON DEMAND solution. I credit ride share as a service and partial solution to this problem, because I also DRINK and NEVER drive when doing so, so had to meticulously plan rather than count on cab service. I personally *****ed for years in a bar about not being able to 'get a cab' in a reasonable amount of time. That is no longer as big a problem thanks to ride share.

But that doesn't address the insurance issue. This issue has been skirted by Uber, BIGTIME. And illegally imho. You can't lay this off on the drivers when you KNOW that our personal auto insurance doesn't fit this situation nor are any personal auto policies currently suited to the 'on/off' type of approach that Uber fast handed on the public, WITH the help of legislators.

The insurance companies are really the ones to blame and they sure as hell are not interested in taking on risks that can not be factored in by their actuaries without some actual 'figures.' But it will eventually occur to them that by taking drunks off the road it IS very much in their own financial interests. Well, maybe. I'm sure they enjoy milking DUI's for all they can get.

The 'experiment' will continue. Some if not many drivers may pay a horrible price to be their guinea pigs and will take far too much personal risk in the process. I don't plan on being one of them. If I can find adequate coverage, I will get it, even if it costs me more. It's my own hide and my own livelyhood.

Went through many similar issues in my working career prior in construction with 'illegal' immigrants who basically wiped out the working class construction workers in my state with both the state and the feds looking the other way.

*Bottom line. Neither the state or the feds give a damn about 'you.' *

Cover your own backsides or take the results.


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## scrurbscrud

Former Yellow Driver said:


> "Busted"? What does that mean? *After they pay for your claim* they drop your insurance or they refuse the non Uber related claim? BTW - how do they determine that you occasionally do Ubering if you don't tell them and your accident was not Uber related?


*That is a very false assumption* that many drivers are merely 'hoping for.' No insurance company is obligated to cover anyone for any policy obtained by fraudulent representations. Uber may say they are not a 'livery' service but that claim is so frail and untested it's basically just B.S.


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## Realityshark

where's the beef? said:


> Don't ask, don't tell...
> That's my motto for now...


I believe that is everyone's motto who is driving Uber X.


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## Realityshark

scrurbscrud said:


> *That is a very false assumption* that many drivers are merely 'hoping for.' No insurance company is obligated to cover anyone for any policy obtained by fraudulent representations. Uber may say they are not a 'livery' service but that claim is so frail and untested it's basically just B.S.


It frightens me to say this, but I believe you are correct. I just got another ping. I hope I don't crash my car.


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## SoBeUBER

I had a friend who was not an uber get rear ended a few months ago....any time you are involved in an accident, the insurance company usually wants to take a recorded statement from you...in this recorded statement, one of the questions asked by the insurance company was "are you currently working with, or have you in the past worked with any ride-sharing services" I have no doubt 99 percent of rideshare drivers who are asked this question lie the same way they lied on their insurance application when they said they were using their vehicles for personal use and estimated they were driving 10,000 miles per year instead of the 30,000-50,000 miles many of them log every year...

doesn't seem like that big of a deal until you consider that it wouldn't take a CIA trained spy to infiltrate uber's corporate office and get a list of all the driver, their DL#'s and their tag numbers and cross reference that with the info they are providing...at which point...these "white lies" turn into felonies that can get us locked up and leave us with permanent criminal records that will haunt us for the rest of our lives


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## scrurbscrud

Realityshark said:


> It frightens me to say this, but I believe you are correct. I just got another ping. I hope I don't crash my car.


I know construction contractors who do to this day still skirt the labor/insurance laws everyday and have for years, successfully. And make huge money by this type of exploitation. Even used these contractors myself knowing that they would be the first to go down before me, and if they got to me my shell corp would have to evaporate too. That's how the 'independent contractor' arrangement works. You screw up and get caught in a detailed analysis caused by an illegal working the site, the 'independent contractor/subcontractor' goes down. If it's a big enough problem, your shell corp goes down too. The first thing to realize when working under these types of arrangements is that in our system today, we are all hanging in the wind.


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## where's the beef?

I haven't read or heard about even 1 moron who got locked up & charged with felony yet...
And we know there are plenty of morons out there Ubering...
So let's not get carried away with this scare mongering...


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## SoBeUBER

where's the beef? said:


> I haven't read or heard about even 1 moron who got locked up & charged with felony yet...
> And we know there are plenty of morons out there Ubering...
> So let's not get carried away with this scare mongering...


Somebody get Russell on the phone!


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## where's the beef?

He could be one...
Maybe...


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## scrurbscrud

where's the beef? said:


> I haven't read or heard about even 1 moron who got locked up & charged with felony yet...
> And we know there are plenty of morons out there Ubering...
> So let's not get carried away with this scare mongering...


One can certainly be charged with fraud and not wind up in jail. Fraud is one of the first charges on the list of any good attorneys.

Get's everyone to the negotiation table quickly. Drivers who end up in any serious accidents with Uber/ride share WILL have their personal insurance companies at the table, and fast. *There is no doubt about that whatsoever.*

Where the chips fall from there will probably be as Former Yellow said. You will be branded and scorned, never to Uber again, and will, if you're lucky, find a high priced agency to cover you for future insurance for a few years til you're back on track. And if they or Uber don't pay your claims, you'll get saddled with a very large ongoing collection account. Or if your 'personal auto insurance' does decide to pay, even though they don't have to, they might nail you with a large collection anyway.

The only way you'll go to jail is if you are under the influence of illegal substances at the time of the accident. That's almost a surety now days.


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## UberLuxbod

scrurbscrud said:


> What we are doing is blatantly ILLEGAL. *We drive when app off with no insurance, period. And we HOPE the insurance companies will play nice and 'cover us.' What a freakin' JOKE! Do you really think they are on your ILLEGAL side? hahahahahaahahahah*
> 
> There is no escaping this fact and it should be uncomfortable for every driver and every citizen.


Please get this correct.

What UberX drivers in the US are doing.

As UberX is completely legal in the UK.

And all cars are fully insured for Hire&Reward.

Just like all other Private Hire vehicles.


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## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> Please get this correct.
> 
> What UberX drivers in the US are doing.
> 
> As UberX is completely legal in the UK.
> 
> And all cars are fully insured for Hire&Reward.
> 
> Just like all other Private Hire vehicles.


Indeed. So I've heard. There are many systemic reasons why the U.S. is extremely dysfunctional. That being that the big boyz are largely exempt from the laws, and this type of blatant lawlessness eventually 'trickles down' and into the general populace.

You know, the trickle down economy. Get enough starving unemployed there and you'll have the same problems eventually.


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## duggles

Kaz said:


> Yes, you are BUSTED if your insurance company finds out. When I called my insurance company recently to update some info, the rep asked me "Do you use your car for any taxi or business purposes..." And someone who used to be a licensed insurance agent told me Uber-ing is risky and my rates will skyrocket if my insurance company finds out. And by not disclosing this to them, we're basically fraudulently obtaining a policy for lower rates. If you have to file a claim for any reason and your insurance co finds out you Uber, you will be canceled and claim denied. It says in all of the insurance docs youre sent about making false statements, etc. I don't mean to scare but there is alot of risk involved in doing this.


What if your insurance company has never asked? What if their profit comes from streamlining and dealing with customers as little as possible, such that my policy renews automatically every six months without so much as a phone call?

Don't ask, don't tell, right?


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## UberLuxbod

Rideshare will never happen in the UK.

As soon as you accept money above the running costs of your vehicle it is deemed as Hire&Reward and you need to have the correct licence, insurance and your vehicle needs to be licensed.


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## Worcester Sauce

SoBeUBER said:


> I had a friend who was not an uber get rear ended a few months ago....any time you are involved in an accident, the insurance company usually wants to take a recorded statement from you...in this recorded statement, one of the questions asked by the insurance company was "are you currently working with, or have you in the past worked with any ride-sharing services" I have no doubt 99 percent of rideshare drivers who are asked this question lie the same way they lied on their insurance application when they said they were using their vehicles for personal use and estimated they were driving 10,000 miles per year instead of the 30,000-50,000 miles many of them log every year...
> 
> doesn't seem like that big of a deal until you consider that it wouldn't take a CIA trained spy to infiltrate uber's corporate office and get a list of all the driver, their DL#'s and their tag numbers and cross reference that with the info they are providing...at which point...these "white lies" turn into felonies that can get us locked up and leave us with permanent criminal records that will haunt us for the rest of our lives


you are correct about the recorded statement (there is also verbiage on the back of the insurance claim check endorsement area). Uber lists us all as "active drivers" along with our vehicle details and plate numbers. Does not matter if our app is on or off (or even if the phone is not even in the car). We are still "active Uber drivers".


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## Worcester Sauce

duggles said:


> What if your insurance company has never asked? What if their profit comes from streamlining and dealing with customers as little as possible, such that my policy renews automatically every six months without so much as a phone call?
> 
> Don't ask, don't tell, right?


...NOT right. Read your policy. It excludes commercial use of your vehicle.


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## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> Rideshare will never happen in the UK.
> 
> As soon as you accept money above the running costs of your vehicle it is deemed as Hire&Reward and you need to have the correct licence, insurance and your vehicle needs to be licensed.


*The labor and insurance laws were eviscerated in the U.S. when several millions of starving Mexicans were forced out of their country and foisted upon our society after their 'elites' got done butchering them in Mexico.*


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## scrurbscrud

duggles said:


> What if your insurance company has never asked? What if their profit comes from streamlining and dealing with customers as little as possible, such that my policy renews automatically every six months without so much as a phone call?
> 
> Don't ask, don't tell, right?


I happened to read Colorado's legislation regarding ride share recently. One of the possible requirements in the legislation is that a RIDER will be attached to your personal auto policy, effective Jan. 15, 2015. Which same is not available anywhere yet from what I can tell. You should probably read it.


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## duggles

scrurbscrud said:


> I happened to read Colorado's legislation regarding ride share recently. One of the possible requirements in the legislation is that a RIDER will be attached to your personal auto policy, effective Jan. 15, 2015. Which same is not available anywhere yet from what I can tell. You should probably read it.


Linky?

In other cases where parts of the law go into effect at a later date, Uber has waited to break the news until the last possible moment. DOT inspections/med checks, trade dress, etc.


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## scrurbscrud

duggles said:


> Linky?
> 
> In other cases where parts of the law go into effect at a later date, Uber has waited to break the news until the last possible moment. DOT inspections/med checks, trade dress, etc.


Just google sb 125 colorado and you should find it easy enuf.


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## UberLuxbod

scrurbscrud said:


> *The labor and insurance laws were eviscerated in the U.S. when several millions of starving Mexicans were forced out of their country and foisted upon our society after their 'elites' got done butchering them in Mexico.*


What are you babbling about?


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## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> What are you babbling about?


screw off if you can't follow a simple conversation


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## UberLuxbod

scrurbscrud said:


> screw off if you can't follow a simple conversation


Mmmm.

Do you have mental health problems?

It certainly seems so.


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## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> Mmmm.
> 
> Do you have mental health problems?
> 
> It certainly seems so.


You are obviously not familiar with how our large corps here including insurance corps either rape us on rates, screw us to the wall on claims or leave you hanging in the wind in the case of Uber


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## UberLuxbod

scrurbscrud said:


> You are obviously not familiar with how our large corps here including insurance corps either rape us on rates, screw us to the wall on claims or leave you hanging in the wind in the case of Uber


What does that have to do with the price of fish?

You quoted me with your babblings.


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## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> What does that have to do with the price of fish?
> 
> You quoted me with your babblings.


 You were blowing about your fine insurance system. I said it don't operate that way here. Uber is free to LIE their asses off to drivers.

Does that make it easier for you to understand or do we have a language barrier?


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## scrurbscrud

Realityshark said:


> It frightens me to say this, but I believe you are correct. I just got another ping. I hope I don't crash my car.


For the record I called both State Farm and Geico and both said they don't cover Uber drivers for any reason and that they have no policy riders available for such uses for personal auto insurance.

Anyone using either should be able to get the same information by a phone call to either their national or state offices.


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## UberLuxbod

scrurbscrud said:


> You were blowing about your fine insurance system. I said it don't operate that way here. Uber is free to LIE their asses off to drivers.
> 
> Does that make it easier for you to understand or do we have a language barrier?


No language barrier here.

It is called Queens English for a reason.

You are showing the fine diplomacy skills that the US Government is so good at....


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## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> No language barrier here.
> 
> It is called Queens English for a reason.
> 
> You are showing the fine diplomacy skills that the US Government is so good at....


It's a serious issue. Obviously not one you relate to.


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## scrurbscrud

For the record after several phone redirects with Progressive I found out that they (supposedly) have a limited ride share pilot program available in some states and apart from that drivers are technically insurance naked. To get a quote required personal information and I am reluctant to insert such info into their database


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## Baron VonStudley

Based on regulation I am still not happy with Insurance options. Lyft made a big brew ha ha over partnering with MET Life on developing a hybrid or supplementary group coverage. It's all BS no insurance company will touch this even though in the long run it is another product to provide. I don't think the wright brothers were able to secure a policy for flying when flying didn't even exist. SO its just a point that this is another insurance product, possibly profitable or not, but I don't get it.



Each peer-to-peer company shall at all times maintain the following insurance coverage which meets all of the following requirements:
(a) A commercial liability insurance policy shall provide the following minimum coverage for each associated driver of the peer-to peer-company and vehicle from the moment the driver accepts a trip request until the completion of the trip. For the purposes of this requirement, completion of the trip shall mean all passengers have exited the vehicle, paid for the trip, are
standing on the sidewalk or on private property, and the driver and passengers have reasonable knowledge to believe that all personal belongings have been removed:
(1) Not less than one million dollars ($1,000,000) of liability coverage per incident for bodily injury and property damage for an accident involving a driver of a peer-to-peer company;
(2) Not less than one million dollars ($1,000,000) of underinsured and uninsured coverage per incident for bodily injury and property damage;
(3) If the peer-to-peer driver maintains collision coverage on his/her personal motor vehicle insurance policy, the peer-to-peer company shall maintain at least the same level of collision coverage that the driver maintains not to exceed fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) per incident; and
(4) The commercial liability insurance policy shall act as primary and drop down and respond to a claim when the driver’s personal motor vehicle insurance policy fails to cover any portion of the claim for any reason.
(b) A contingent liability insurance policy that shall provide the following minimum coverage for each associated driver of the peer-to peer-company and vehicle while available for hire. For purposes of this requirement, a driver and vehicle is available for hire when the driver is logged onto the online application but has not accepted a trip request:
(1) Liability coverage of not less than fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) per person and not less than one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) per incident for bodily injury; and not less than twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000) for property damage; and
(2) The contingent liability insurance policy shall respond to a claim when the driver’s personal motor vehicle insurance policy fails to cover any portion of the claim for any reason.
(c) Each policy required by this Section must be current and valid;
(d) Each policy required by this Section must be issued by an insurance company that is admitted to do business in the state of Ohio or by an eligible surplus lines company or risk retention group, and has a credit rating of no less than “A-” from A.M. Best or “A” from Demotech; and
(e) Each policy required by this Section shall provide notice of cancellation of insurance to the Director at least ten (10) days prior to the day of cancellation.
588.16


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## scrurbscrud

Baron VonStudley said:


> Based on regulation I am still not happy with Insurance options. Lyft made a big brew ha ha over partnering with MET Life on developing a hybrid or supplementary group coverage. It's all BS no insurance company will touch this even though in the long run it is another product to provide. I don't think the wright brothers were able to secure a policy for flying when flying didn't even exist. SO its just a point that this is another insurance product, possibly profitable or not, but I don't get it.


*If drivers bothered to check the details the matters are far more serious than most sane people would even consider contending with. Driving for the currently ridiculous ride share pay and factoring in these types of uncovered risks is a real risk of financial well being.*

Both State Farm agent and Geico agent informed me that zero "Uber drivers" policies would be considered effective for our type of work and if they knew their insureds were doing this their policies would be immediately cancelled. It doesn't matter to insurance companies if Uber or Lyft thinks they have created some fancy footwork to dodge "paid rides for a fee from customers" under some new term called "ride share." That doesn't change the facts for them. *Pay for hire should prove out in court to be a HARD FACT.*

IF a driver has an accident on the supposed second position of Uber, that being app on but no pax where Uber is 'supposed to cover' how many drivers REALLY think Uber or Lyft will cover them? Uber and Lyft will run straight to their own verbiage that says, for all intents and purposes, *"CHECK WITH YOUR OWN INSURANCE COMPANIES FOR ADEQUACY OF COVERAGE.*" There is no way in hell that the drivers personal insurance policy will cover such incidents, therefore it is INADEQUATE and both companies insurance companies will simply BOW OUT on that basis if they had any sense at all in a SERIOUS accident where there are injuries. It also pays to remember that it is not Uber or Lyft that will make this call. It will in Uber's case be JAMES RIVER's policy and attorneys.

Any casual investigation of numerous sources of information including a simple subpena of Uber app time for a driver, a honest answer from a driver, a subpoena of business or tax reports which will again be more than likely requested by attorneys, etc etc *will show that a driver is 'ride sharing' i.e. PAID FOR HIRE. * I suspect that even with full blown commercial insurance drivers would be at a minimum subject to increased insurance rates and if it's serious enough maybe even cancelled, but with their personal policies *they could face insurance fraud and non-payment of claims.* Yes, even if they are only legitimately doing personal business while driving on their ILLEGAL POLICY.

So drivers asses IN TYPICAL UBER FASHIONS are pretty much left hanging in the wind when it comes to the personal policies and their supposed backup coverage. Why in the hell should Uber or their insurance company pay for *a driver that is TOO DAMN DUMB to check into these matters?* They sure are not obligated to take on ILLEGAL ACTIVITY by drivers and would be fools to do so as that would open them up to pay for injuries done by ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, a big MULTIPLIER it seems to me for attorney/client paydirt.

Anyone who sez otherwise is lying, deceived or both. Anyone who trusts Uber or Lyft on this matter ought to have their heads examined.

Any such drivers in a serious accident could easily face potential criminal charges, even if they are only part timers. At a minimum they will be cancelled and subjected to higher insurance premiums from high risk insurance policies until their driving record stays clear for whatever period of time that requires. In the case of a serious accident with injury claims it could be years. Even worse if their insurance company denies the claims.
Then they are simply screwed for for life unless they can wiggle out through bankruptcy.

This is a bad mojo combo by my simple investigations. Ride share companies that can't be trusted and treat drivers with shit for pay, putting ONLY the drivers at risk!

*Bad companies + stupid drivers = A FORMULA FOR DISASTER FOR DRIVERS*

There are other answers. *It's called full blown commercial insurance until 'hybrid policies' are available.*

Some young dumbasses may be willing to risk everything for this kind of setup. I'm too old, have too much to lose and am NOT interested in even setting foot (any longer) to this lying perpetration or politely,* insurance subterfuge by Uber or Lyft.*

Insured people are obligated to INSURE themselves. *It's not the job of somebody else to make sure you're protected. *

I'll not set behind the wheel again until I've personally solved this equation to my own investigated satisfactions. And of course I already know that to solve this issue will knock into the pay even deeper.

The government and Uber or Lyft are more than likely NOT going to come running to anyone's rescue.

When hybrid policies become available, then the truthful costs of insurance will be available to factor into the pay equations. Until then it will be better for part timers to go away, and full timers to go full blown commercial to BE SAFE.

*Then and only then....

Uber on. Otherwise YER ALL NUTZ.*

*{I am not an insurance company or agent, check for YOURSELVES!}*


----------



## TheHottness

So can the Feds say that this is an illegitmate business and not let you write off the milage... or maybe even report it to your insurance company? Has anyone ever filed a tax return yet writing off the milage for uber? Seems like a lot of questions still to be awnsered....

Snap into a slimjim

OHHHHHHH YEAAAHHHH!!!


----------



## scrurbscrud

TheHottness said:


> So can the Feds say that this is an illegitmate business and not let you write off the milage... or maybe even report it to your insurance company? Has anyone ever filed a tax return yet writing off the milage for uber? Seems like a lot of questions still to be awnsered....
> 
> Snap into a slimjim
> 
> OHHHHHHH YEAAAHHHH!!!


I don't think that the IRS cares if a business carries adequate insurance.

I think Baron's cut and paste statement here is the most interesting:

(3) *If the* peer-to-peer *driver maintains collision coverage on his/her personal motor vehicle insurance policy*, the peer-to-peer company shall maintain at least the same level of collision coverage that the driver maintains not to exceed fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) per incident; and
(4) The commercial liability insurance policy shall act as primary and drop down and respond to a claim *when the driver's personal motor vehicle insurance policy fails to cover any portion of the claim for any reason.*

*That verbiage does not include the statement that one can maintain a policy that could easily be legally invalid/voided by our ride for pay activity.*

Uber and their insurance company will more than likely run for the hills on injury claims, because 'they care' so much about stupid drivers too dumb to check on their policies.

*Trust me, Uber's gotcha covered? Fat chance in HELL.*


----------



## UberLuxbod

scrurbscrud said:


> It's a serious issue. Obviously not one you relate to.


Obviously not.

No Insurance Fraud in the UK.

All Uber drivers are properly licensed with vehicles also licensed.

And with proper Hire and Reward Insurance.

Most in London appear to have Fully Comp Insurance which covers fault and no fault accidents.


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> Obviously not.
> 
> No Insurance Fraud in the UK.
> 
> All Uber drivers are properly licensed with vehicles also licensed.
> 
> And with proper Hire and Reward Insurance.
> 
> Most in London appear to have Fully Comp Insurance which covers fault and no fault accidents.


The difficulty for insurance policies here (from my own investigations) is* the dual use aspects of ride share, sometimes commercial/sometimes personal use of a vehicle.*

*I doubt this issue is covered there either.* And I'd bet the same problem exists. You may not be aware of it.

Uber drivers arse's are probably hanging in the wind there as well.


----------



## UberLuxbod

scrurbscrud said:


> The difficulty for insurance policies here (from my own investigations) is* the dual use aspects of ride share, sometimes commercial/sometimes personal use of a vehicle.*
> 
> *I doubt this issue is covered there either.* And I'd bet the same problem exists. You may not be aware of it.
> 
> Uber drivers arse's are probably hanging in the wind there as well.


Uber is not Rideshare in the UK and Dublin.

And it never will be.

X is just a cheaper Private Hire vehicle to Exec and Lux.

From a regulatory point of view they are not considered any differently.

All have vehicle inspected and licensed by the local authority with drivers also licensed with criminal record checks and medicals.

And they all must have proper Insurance.

There is no other option


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> Uber is not Rideshare in the UK and Dublin.
> 
> And it never will be.
> 
> X is just a cheaper Private Hire vehicle to Exec and Lux.
> 
> From a regulrtory


So, you're saying that no Uber drivers use their car for personal reasons? OR that they are covered for personal use for their commercial vehicle?


----------



## cybertec69

UberLuxbod said:


> Obviously not.
> 
> No Insurance Fraud in the UK.
> 
> All Uber drivers are properly licensed with vehicles also licensed.
> 
> And with proper Hire and Reward Insurance.
> 
> Most in London appear to have Fully Comp Insurance which covers fault and no fault accidents.


Same here in nyc, regulated to the hilt by the TLC.


----------



## UberLuxbod

A private hire vehicle can be driven for social and domestic purposes.

Not always by the spouse or other non PH drivers that depends on the individual insurance policy terms and conditions.


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> A private hire vehicle can be driven for social and domestic purposes.
> 
> Not always by the spouse or other non PH drivers that depends on the individual insurance policy terms and conditions.


These types of policies are not yet (easily) integrated into our system. Which translates to DRIVER DANGER on several fronts. Not that any driver would actually think to protect themselves, but because most are financially desperate. If we had to pay the legitimate costs of protection there will eventually be considerably less 'Ubering' with the prices received currently.

Just out of curiosity what does an annual policy run $ wise there?


----------



## UberLuxbod

cybertec69 said:


> Same here in nyc, regulated to the hilt by the TLC.


As it should be imho.


----------



## UberLuxbod

scrurbscrud said:


> These types of policies are not yet (easily) integrated into our system. Which translates to DRIVER DANGER on several fronts. Not that any driver would actually think to protect themselves, but because most are financially desperate. If we had to pay the legitimate costs of protection there will eventually be considerably less 'Ubering' with the prices received currently.
> 
> Just out of curiosity what does an annual policy run $ wise there?


My renewal was £1600


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> My renewal was £1600


Annually? If so that's not as bad as I expected. (about $2500-2600 per year for those who give a damn.)

I hope to locate something similar here this week. No way in HELL am I about to drive another Uber mile butt naked on insurance. I'm expecting to find something in the $5000-6000 annual range though, unfortunately. I've already been quoted $10,000 or higher here for commercial insurance. Unfortunately at that price even on the higher XL fares it will eliminate me from the idiot Uber driver without insurance pool.


----------



## UberLuxbod

scrurbscrud said:


> Annually? If so that's not as bad as I expected. (about $2500-2600 per year for those who give a damn.)
> 
> I hope to locate something similar here this week. No way in HELL am I about to drive another Uber mile butt naked on insurance. I'm expecting to find something in the $5000-6000 annual range though, unfortunately. I've already been quoted $10,000 or higher here for commercial insurance. Unfortunately at that price even on the higher XL fares it will eliminate me from the idiot Uber driver without insurance pool.


My cost is not typical.

I have the advantage of 10yrs claim free and also various advanced driving qualifications.

For many the cost would be closer to £2500/3000.

But not heard of anybody paying as much as £10k.

They might be best finding another line of work.


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> My cost is not typical.
> 
> I have the advantage of 10yrs claim free and also various advanced driving qualifications.
> 
> For many the cost would be closer to £2500/3000.
> 
> But not heard of anybody paying as much as £10k.
> 
> They might be best finding another line of work.


Yes, (British squiggly $ sign) 3000 is about $5,000. US dollars. I'm thinking that $5,000-6000 per year rate would be fair for my expectations here. Yes it will BITE because my 'personal auto' is only running about $1,100 but it is unreasonable to expect them to cover me for that amount for many reasons INCLUDING the FACT that in any accident, even with UBER APP ON or PAX in a vehicle, that personal auto insurance company will assuredly be drawn into a suit.

UberX drivers are idiots if they think their personal auto is going to cover them for illegal activity. They can't, because it's ILLEGAL to do so for them.

*If yer gonna drive for pay GET ADEQUATE INSURANCE COVERAGE!!!! (message of fact for ride share drivers here)*


----------



## Worcester Sauce

scrurbscrud said:


> *If drivers bothered to check the details the matters are far more serious than most sane people would even consider contending with. Driving for the currently ridiculous ride share pay and factoring in these types of uncovered risks is a real risk of financial well being.*
> 
> Both State Farm agent and Geico agent informed me that zero "Uber drivers" policies would be considered effective for our type of work and if they knew their insureds were doing this their policies would be immediately cancelled. It doesn't matter to insurance companies if Uber or Lyft thinks they have created some fancy footwork to dodge "paid rides for a fee from customers" under some new term called "ride share." That doesn't change the facts for them. *Pay for hire should prove out in court to be a HARD FACT.*
> 
> IF a driver has an accident on the supposed second position of Uber, that being app on but no pax where Uber is 'supposed to cover' how many drivers REALLY think Uber or Lyft will cover them? Uber and Lyft will run straight to their own verbiage that says, for all intents and purposes, *"CHECK WITH YOUR OWN INSURANCE COMPANIES FOR ADEQUACY OF COVERAGE.*" There is no way in hell that the drivers personal insurance policy will cover such incidents, therefore it is INADEQUATE and both companies insurance companies will simply BOW OUT on that basis if they had any sense at all in a SERIOUS accident where there are injuries. It also pays to remember that it is not Uber or Lyft that will make this call. It will in Uber's case be JAMES RIVER's policy and attorneys.
> 
> Any casual investigation of numerous sources of information including a simple subpena of Uber app time for a driver, a honest answer from a driver, a subpoena of business or tax reports which will again be more than likely requested by attorneys, etc etc *will show that a driver is 'ride sharing' i.e. PAID FOR HIRE. * I suspect that even with full blown commercial insurance drivers would be at a minimum subject to increased insurance rates and if it's serious enough maybe even cancelled, but with their personal policies *they could face insurance fraud and non-payment of claims.* Yes, even if they are only legitimately doing personal business while driving on their ILLEGAL POLICY.
> 
> So drivers asses IN TYPICAL UBER FASHIONS are pretty much left hanging in the wind when it comes to the personal policies and their supposed backup coverage. Why in the hell should Uber or their insurance company pay for *a driver that is TOO DAMN DUMB to check into these matters?* They sure are not obligated to take on ILLEGAL ACTIVITY by drivers and would be fools to do so as that would open them up to pay for injuries done by ILLEGAL ACTIVITY, a big MULTIPLIER it seems to me for attorney/client paydirt.
> 
> Anyone who sez otherwise is lying, deceived or both. Anyone who trusts Uber or Lyft on this matter ought to have their heads examined.
> 
> Any such drivers in a serious accident could easily face potential criminal charges, even if they are only part timers. At a minimum they will be cancelled and subjected to higher insurance premiums from high risk insurance policies until their driving record stays clear for whatever period of time that requires. In the case of a serious accident with injury claims it could be years. Even worse if their insurance company denies the claims.
> Then they are simply screwed for for life unless they can wiggle out through bankruptcy.
> 
> This is a bad mojo combo by my simple investigations. Ride share companies that can't be trusted and treat drivers with shit for pay, putting ONLY the drivers at risk!
> 
> *Bad companies + stupid drivers = A FORMULA FOR DISASTER FOR DRIVERS*
> 
> There are other answers. *It's called full blown commercial insurance until 'hybrid policies' are available.*
> 
> Some young dumbasses may be willing to risk everything for this kind of setup. I'm too old, have too much to lose and am NOT interested in even setting foot (any longer) to this lying perpetration or politely,* insurance subterfuge by Uber or Lyft.*
> 
> Insured people are obligated to INSURE themselves. *It's not the job of somebody else to make sure you're protected. *
> 
> I'll not set behind the wheel again until I've personally solved this equation to my own investigated satisfactions. And of course I already know that to solve this issue will knock into the pay even deeper.
> 
> The government and Uber or Lyft are more than likely NOT going to come running to anyone's rescue.
> 
> When hybrid policies become available, then the truthful costs of insurance will be available to factor into the pay equations. Until then it will be better for part timers to go away, and full timers to go full blown commercial to BE SAFE.
> 
> *Then and only then....
> 
> Uber on. Otherwise YER ALL NUTZ.*
> 
> *{I am not an insurance company or agent, check for YOURSELVES!}*


Perfectly said....and for those drivers who think that they are covered by their own private policies just because their app may be off....think again. As long as Uber has you classified as an "active driver account"....you/we are screwed.....pax in the car or not.....app on or not.


----------



## UberLuxbod

Indeed.

Many US based UberX drivers need to think hard about their Insurance arrangements.

Even more important if they are leasing via Santander.

I never cut costs with Insurance as the risks are just too high.

Imagine driving home after a shift and being rear ended and possibly injured.

You think you are lucky being ferried off to Hospital and feel lucky to survive.

Then the Police or Insurance Co finds the Uber phone in the glove box.

Not a nice turn of events.

I think Hill Street Blues* said it best.

Be Careful Out There.

*I reserve the right to have misquoted HSB as it is probably 30 yrs since I last watched it.


----------



## Worcester Sauce

UberLuxbod said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Many US based UberX drivers need to think hard about their Insurance arrangements.
> 
> Even more important if they are leasing via Santander.
> 
> I never cut costs with Insurance as the risks are just too high.
> 
> Imagine driving home after a shift and being rear ended and possibly injured.
> 
> You think you are lucky being ferried off to Hospital and feel lucky to survive.
> 
> Then the Police or Insurance Co finds the Uber phone in the glove box.
> 
> Not a nice turn of events.
> 
> I think Hill Street Blues* said it best.
> 
> Be Careful Out There.
> 
> *I reserve the right to have misquoted HSB as it is probably 30 yrs since I last watched it.


Again, I agree 100%. All our driver "*****es" (ie tips, rates, etc etc) pale when weighed against the consequences of even a minor accident. It won't matter if our phone is on or off, or if there is a pax in the car or not. A denied claim could result in the loss of a car and ruined credit (if there is a note on the car) AND obvious financial ruin for more serious claims. If you are a home owner...get a good bankruptcy lawyer. Bye-bye to the kid's college fund too. Seem worth it for what is barely minimum wage earnings?? Somehow this has to go viral. Then watch what happens to the "all powerful and arrogant UBER"!


----------



## scrurbscrud

I'm currently in 'talks' with 3 commercial ins. agents trying to locate a hybrid policy. I did hear from one of them that with Progressive, part time drivers will NOT even be considered for their pilot program, even under their pilot hybrid program. *Can't vouch for accuracy.*

I know from reading Colorado legislation that a RIDER will have to be attached to any drivers personal auto policy on or before 1/15/15. I'd expect where I'm at will eventually enact similar legislation,

SO, at least in Colorado I'd expect the ranks of part time drivers are about to be slashed considerably OR some other hybrid insurance company will 'cater' to those poor bastards before the time deadline. I doubt too many commercial policies are geared toward part timers, cost wise. It looks like about a $10,000 annual bill so far from what I'm seeing.

*Y'all been adequately warned.*


----------



## scrurbscrud

"*Esurance and TNCs*
Though we can't speak for all insurance companies, *the livery exclusion is pretty universal. According to our definitions of coverage, TNC drivers would need commercial insurance since a personal auto policy through* *Esurance doesn't cover both personal and commercial use of a vehicle."
*
(From Esurance website article)*

How Uber views this matter DON'T MEAN JACK!*


----------



## scrurbscrud

Worcester Sauce said:


> Again, I agree 100%. All our driver "*****es" (ie tips, rates, etc etc) pale when weighed against the consequences of even a minor accident. It won't matter if our phone is on or off, or if there is a pax in the car or not. A denied claim could result in the loss of a car and ruined credit (if there is a note on the car) AND obvious financial ruin for more serious claims. If you are a home owner...get a good bankruptcy lawyer. Bye-bye to the kid's college fund too. Seem worth it for what is barely minimum wage earnings?? Somehow this has to go viral. Then watch what happens to the "all powerful and arrogant UBER"!


Well, so far I have 'personally' verified that my own insurance coverage is void just by Ubering. According to Esurance they have the same RULE. State Farm, Progressive and Geico have all said nearly identical and all recommend a COMMERCIAL POLICY because of this fact.

Drivers have huge reasons to FEAR unless they are completely brain dead and like putting themselves out as vulture meat.
*
"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" * (Yoda)

It's pretty obvious that drivers on the pay scale of things are already suffering, so they have already completed the YODA CYCLE.

*Now tab in the INSURANCE COST REALITY of doing LEGAL business. None of us even belong on the road. We are a danger to society.*

I include myself in the 'we.' And if you don't think Uber or Lyft or JAMES RIVER couldn't back away from the insurance pay table because of YOUR ILLEGALITY, again, you would be wrong. *The only hanger in this formula is YOU and yes, you will be summarily hung in ANY serious accident regardless of your 'don't ask don't tell' FANTASIES.* When your personal auto policy is trotted out in a serious accident YOU will be at fault because it is VOID more than likely and because of that Uber might save their own asses with customers but it's unlikely YOU will be bailed out.

I will not drive illegally. I don't give a damn what Uber says. * The only thing that matters is what YOUR insurance company says IN WRITING.*

*Fact is, yer all more than likely BUTT NAKED when it comes to insurance.*

Some of you might think that's funny. I'm pretty sure this gig will be up in the near future because regulators, lawyers, the insurance industry and citizens in general are not too fond of illegal uninsured drivers. *And for HIRE only serves to amply the problems because it's not just YOU at risk.*


----------



## scrurbscrud

One of the commercial agents I spoke with today said that personal auto insurance companies are already warning insurance agents and telling them to emphasize to their customers that ride sharing invalidates their personal auto policies.


----------



## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> One of the commercial agents I spoke with today said that personal auto insurance companies are already warning insurance agents and telling them to emphasize to their customers that ride sharing invalidates their personal auto policies.


A sea of deaf ears...Austin city council has had this explained , diagrammed, and written in the sky, yet they ignored all of it. Most drivers know this by now, and opt to do it anyway. I can understand a young rookie, but when I meet people in their 40s and beyond, with homes, kids, and decreasing time to recoup loss as they reach retirement ages) I'm slightly shocked at the indifference.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> A sea of deaf ears...Austin city council has had this explained , diagrammed, and written in the sky, yet they ignored all of it. Most drivers know this by now, and opt to do it anyway. I can understand a young rookie, but when I meet people in their 40s and beyond, with homes, kids, and decreasing time to recoup loss as they reach retirement ages) I'm slightly shocked at the indifference.


It would appear that some states (Colo. used in example above) are removing the indifference by force, so, comply or quit will be the only option. Coming soon to an insured neighborhood near us all courtesy of the insurance companies force of will in this issue. Rightfully so imho.

After all why should the politicians be the bad guys when the insurance companies can easily force this issue from the backside. I see their wisdom in handling it this way. Wish the politicians had more balz but we all know that ain't never gonna happen.


----------



## jeffl

I understood from Uber that "uberX" drivers did not require a commercial policy. I've come to find out that to operate in or around the airport, the city of Phoenix requires a COMMERCIAL POLICY, for UberX or any other vehicle. It only makes sense to me. It also makes sense that if Uber is going to be a "business model" it's going to require an investment in at least a few cars and drivers that can operate at all hours of the day and night--to take advantage of both busy times when there are "surge" rates and slow times when other drivers just don't want to get off the couch. A capital investment in a depreciating asset (like your car) plus the expense of insurance, maintenance, etc., makes it obvious that you have to have equipment running at max capacity to turn a profit.

I'm new, so feel free to correct me if I'm an idiot.  I'm trying to learn...


----------



## jeffl

scrurbscrud said:


> I'm currently in 'talks' with 3 commercial ins. agents trying to locate a hybrid policy. I did hear from one of them that with Progressive, part time drivers will NOT even be considered for their pilot program, even under their pilot hybrid program. *Can't vouch for accuracy.*
> 
> I know from reading Colorado legislation that a RIDER will have to be attached to any drivers personal auto policy on or before 1/15/15. I'd expect where I'm at will eventually enact similar legislation,
> 
> SO, at least in Colorado I'd expect the ranks of part time drivers are about to be slashed considerably OR some other hybrid insurance company will 'cater' to those poor bastards before the time deadline. I doubt too many commercial policies are geared toward part timers, cost wise. It looks like about a $10,000 annual bill so far from what I'm seeing.
> 
> *Y'all been adequately warned.*


$10K a year will certainly lower the number of available/responsible drivers, so anyone motivated enough should be able to make some more money. Also, if you have the ability to run more than one car at a time, your cost per vehicle on a commercial policy will go down dramatically, making even more sense to operate at peak capacity


----------



## scrurbscrud

jeffl said:


> $10K a year will certainly lower the number of available/responsible drivers, so anyone motivated enough should be able to make some more money. Also, if you have the ability to run more than one car at a time, your cost per vehicle on a commercial policy will go down dramatically, making even more sense to operate at peak capacity


I have ran the numbers, found a LEGITIMATE policy that I can live with for both terms and price and am just going to have to bite the bullet if I want to continue this gig, which I DO.

I can't say it will work for the majority of part timers. That's something only they can decide.

One thing for certain though is personal auto policies are worthless for both this business and will be summarily cancelled if the drivers were honest with their insurance companies AND they will pay a price if they get in an accident, even on so called personal time. Insurance investigators are on the ball in this game. Drivers will more than likely have their policies cancelled, may face non payment of ANY claims to themselves for their vehicle and any personal injuries AND, COULD get into BIG TROUBLE with the law and will pay a dire price to even get back on the road.

Is that worth it for the shit for pay from Uber? Oh hell no.


----------



## Realityshark

I would love to hear from some "real" drivers who have had accidents. How did Uber respond? What happened to their personal insurance? etc etc. What was the process, did they get cancelled from their policies? All I have read is speculation as to what might happen. I certainly don't wish an accident on anyone, but if any driver finds themselves having to go through the process....please share your experiences. The last thing any of us wants to read are any more posts written from Uber "plants" on this site. It's sad that Uber has planted a few "new drivers" who suddenly have all the Uber information. These posts are insulting to those of us working hard and simply wanting a fair shake. Uber should be hiring people to fix their problems and not spreading Uber propaganda on this site.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Realityshark said:


> I would love to hear from some "real" drivers who have had accidents. How did Uber respond? What happened to their personal insurance? etc etc. What was the process, did they get cancelled from their policies? All I have read is speculation as to what might happen. I certainly don't wish an accident on anyone, but if any driver finds themselves having to go through the process....please share your experiences. The last thing any of us wants to read are any more posts written from Uber "plants" on this site. It's sad that Uber has planted a few "new drivers" who suddenly have all the Uber information. These posts are insulting to those of us working hard and simply wanting a fair shake. Uber should be hiring people to fix their problems and not spreading Uber propaganda on this site.


I don't think drivers will have to wait very long for answers RS. I noticed when I read Colorado's legislation, available here:
http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/cl...4091166B28FC87257C4300636F6B/$FILE/125_01.pdf
that it looks like ride share will have to be listed on the personal auto policy as an additional insured, which is exactly how it SHOULD be. Then there are no issues. The personal auto insurance company then KNOWS about their driver insured person and if they issue an additional insured, the DRIVER will be covered without any doubt. And that is the same case today that should happen if drivers want to make certain their asses are adequately covered.


----------



## UberLuxbod

Realityshark said:


> I would love to hear from some "real" drivers who have had accidents. How did Uber respond? What happened to their personal insurance? etc etc. What was the process, did they get cancelled from their policies? All I have read is speculation as to what might happen. I certainly don't wish an accident on anyone, but if any driver finds themselves having to go through the process....please share your experiences. The last thing any of us wants to read are any more posts written from Uber "plants" on this site. It's sad that Uber has planted a few "new drivers" who suddenly have all the Uber information. These posts are insulting to those of us working hard and simply wanting a fair shake. Uber should be hiring people to fix their problems and not spreading Uber propaganda on this site.


The UberX driver that killed the little girl on the crosswalk was dropped like a hot rock.

First thing Uber said was he wasn't working at the time of the accident(what they meant was he was not on the way to a ping and did not have pax on board) though i suspect his App was very much on.
Why else would he be driving alone round the City.
I believe they also said it was not their responsibility as he was not working.
I expect they also deactivated him at the same time as they cut him lose to deal with the consequences of having no Commercial Insurance.


----------



## Former Yellow Driver

UberLuxbod said:


> Why else would he be driving alone round the City.


The vast majority of cars being driven only have one occupant....the driver.


----------



## StephenJBlue

I actually looked into commercial insurance. Crazy Expensive!


----------



## KevinH

What did you find out?


----------



## StephenJBlue

KevinH said:


> What did you find out?


That I couldn't afford it. So far, $500+ per month.


----------



## scrurbscrud

My general beef with the whole insurance thing with Uber is this blatantly false representation of what 'most' personal auto insurance companies cover, which I found to be an utter lie by asking my own personal auto insurance company, from Uber's website:

*"What about a driver's time between trips?*

*Most personal auto policies cover the period of time when a driver is between commercial trips and not carrying a passenger.* However, we have also recently added a separate commercial insurance policy that went into effect on March 14, 2014 in order to add commercial liability coverage to this period of time between trips and eliminate any ambiguity."

This to me is nothing but a lie, flat out, period. If the insurance company that a driver is with says otherwise, *it doesn't matter what Uber says.

That is the essence of misrepresentation. * In actuality the exact opposite is true, and it is pretty easy to call and find out from the horses mouth. Then Uber goes on to say, well, we got this covered. *Again, a misrepresentation. * Yes, Uber's policy is probably sufficient in some ways, no doubt, in the ways that are strictly stipulated. None of that has ANYTHING to do with the terms and conditions of the drivers personal auto insurance coverage. That factual information can only come from the drivers personal auto insurance coverage. And, my personal auto insurance coverage said my entire personal auto insurance is VOIDED entirely by participating in ride share.

Uber has employed a deceiving sleight of hand that can easily be discovered by asking the personal auto insurance carrier. Their representation is meaningless and outright deceptive.

Most personal auto insurance is VOID by participating in ride share as a driver. Do you see this fact ANYWHERE in Uber's material? No. Why?

Well, in the world of ride share, according to Uber representatives, if this information has to be disclosed to personal auto insurance companies IT WOULD PLACE AN UNDUE BURDEN on the drivers:

"Henry Gustav Fuldner, Uber's risk management chief, testified Tuesday that the company does not plan to require its drivers to notify their personal insurance companies they are driving for a ride-sharing company. *"We are not party to that agreement," Mr. Fuldner said, "and such notification would be unduly burdensome."* "

[From a hearing in Penn.]

Uh, yeah, it would be burdensome to have your personal auto insurance VOIDED wouldn't it? Pretty big burden. Undue? What in the world are the insurance regulators even thinking? What in the world is Uber even thinking? Why are they making the call for a driver obligation? They aren't. As you note from his statement, 'we are not a party to that agreement.' Well, why are you making claims that 'most auto insurance companies cover' when the fact is they are VOIDED?

This lie has gone unchecked by the entire U.S. political and regulatory agencies. Why is THAT? Don't citizens and drivers at least deserve to be TOLD THE TRUTH and NOT LIED TO BLATANTLY in public?

*Who in the hell are these guys kidding?*

*Most personal auto insurance COVERS?*

Uh, no, not even close.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Some seem to have an accurate grip on facts:

"Whether an Uber driver's personal insurance is available to passengers remains in doubt. Any personal driver insurance policy excludes coverage if a driver is charging passengers money for the trip, said John Madiedo, president of the Professional Insurance Center in Tampa.

Madiedo said that's one reason *Uber drivers should have to carry commercial driver insurance like cab and limo drivers.*

*"Personal auto insurance is not intended to cover people who are using their vehicle for commercial purposes," said Madiedo, whose company specializes in covering public transportation vehicles."*

*And drivers can get the identical statement of FACT from their own personal auto insurance company.*


----------



## Tx rides

jeffl said:


> I understood from Uber that "uberX" drivers did not require a commercial policy. I've come to find out that to operate in or around the airport, the city of Phoenix requires a COMMERCIAL POLICY, for UberX or any other vehicle. It only makes sense to me. It also makes sense that if Uber is going to be a "business model" it's going to require an investment in at least a few cars and drivers that can operate at all hours of the day and night--to take advantage of both busy times when there are "surge" rates and slow times when other drivers just don't want to get off the couch. A capital investment in a depreciating asset (like your car) plus the expense of insurance, maintenance, etc., makes it obvious that you have to have equipment running at max capacity to turn a profit.
> 
> I'm new, so feel free to correct me if I'm an idiot. I'm trying to learn...


 Jeff, you are not an idiot. You are spot on correct. Anyone with a slightly successful car service will agree with your assessment. Uber/Lyft/etc have done well at convincing PASSENGERS they are on to something new...exciting...innovative...etc. but the truth is: it is a dispatch system. A JIT dispatch system which has set an unmatchable expectation of a car just around the corner where ever you are, cheaper than ever. This model does nothing to reduce the risk of accidents, in fact, by recruiting inexperienced, untrained chauffeurs/cabbies , it actually increases the likelihood of accidents. It also increases the cost of business, because you have built in an indefinite amount of wait time in order to have a car "just around the corner". 
_(It seems the target market "pi$$es" themselves if they have to wait 10 minutes or more)_
These increases must be covered somehow, some way. Currently, it appears to be covered by the drivers, or passengers left paying up to 10 times surge rates. Neither of those options can survive long term. Our company could provide transportation around-the-clock, parking in wait, circling a few choice spots (if it were legal) but we would only do this during peak seasons, otherwise, we would go broke paying our drivers to be idle waiting for a Ping during slow periods. This is nothing new, we've always known this.


----------



## scrurbscrud

We wouldn't have had a driver saturation problem if the government would have just let us all DRIVE DRUNK! The big role that ride share plays is keeping people from getting pinched and having their lives ruined over having a couple wines or beers for dinner and then paying $15,000 fines, getting raped by the insurance companies and losing their jobs.

It would be good to be paid enough to take the overflow with proper protections. To me an average UberX part time driver stands just as much risk or MORE than the previous drunk drivers. They just hope they don't have it happen to them. The risk has just been transferred off the drunks and onto the naked insured Uber driver. The system will predatorize us soon enough too. They all need the cash and will find a way to get it, just like Travis.


----------



## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> We wouldn't have had a driver saturation problem if the government would have just let us all DRIVE DRUNK! The big role that ride share plays is keeping people from getting pinched and having their lives ruined over having a couple wines or beers for dinner and then paying $15,000 fines, getting raped by the insurance companies and losing their jobs.
> 
> It would be good to be paid enough to take the overflow with proper protections. To me an average UberX part time driver stands just as much risk or MORE than the previous drunk drivers. They just hope they don't have it happen to them. The risk has just been transferred off the drunks and onto the naked insured Uber driver. The system will predatorize us soon enough too. They all need the cash and will find a way to get it, just like Travis.


Well, in all fairness, the drunk driving excuse is how they managed to snowball so many city councils. In reality, most of us know that is a load of crap, it is hard to imagine that there are that many drunks departing hotels to go to the airport, or arriving at the airport to go to a hotel ;-)


----------



## UberLuxbod

StrawJim said:


> That I couldn't afford it. So far, $500+ per month.


And that is the point.

Uber(and no doubt Lyft+Sidecar) are pushing rates down to gain market share.

Part of the plan is to ensure drivers commit Insurance Fraud.

As then they don't need to factor in the high Insurance costs.

The more you look.

The more it looks like a Ponzi scheme.

$500 a month seems reasonable.

And compares with prices for similar Ins in the UK.

Many drivers pay around £3000/4000 a year.

Even basic coverage that only covers pax and any other parties involved in an incident not any of your own vehicle damage (3rd Party Only in UK) can easily run to £200 a month.

I implore all UberX to gey their Insurance sorted correctly.

Apart from ShooUber he can do what he likes as he or indeed she is an abusive amd ignorant fool.


----------



## Courageous

StrawJim said:


> That I couldn't afford it. So far, $500+ per month.


yep...that be about average.


----------



## guyfawkes

Kaz said:


> Yes, you are BUSTED if your insurance company finds out. When I called my insurance company recently to update some info, the rep asked me "Do you use your car for any taxi or business purposes..." And someone who used to be a licensed insurance agent told me Uber-ing is risky and my rates will skyrocket if my insurance company finds out. And by not disclosing this to them, we're basically fraudulently obtaining a policy for lower rates. If you have to file a claim for any reason and your insurance co finds out you Uber, you will be canceled and claim denied. It says in all of the insurance docs youre sent about making false statements, etc. I don't mean to scare but there is alot of risk involved in doing this.


Most Domestic policies will not cover you if you "use your insured vehicle for hire or reward. This is a can of worms that's about to open here in Australia and woe betide when the fraud prevention bodies start cracking down big time. Not a case of if but when.


----------



## scrurbscrud

guyfawkes said:


> Most Domestic policies will not cover you if you "use your insured vehicle for hire or reward. This is a can of worms that's about to open here in Australia and woe betide when the fraud prevention bodies start cracking down big time. Not a case of if but when.


Yeah, it's gonna happen here too. When Mr. Big Britches tried to roll out a fleet of ride for hire across the globe this particular issue got sidelined and all the regulatory rules got tossed aside. But they'll catch up. In the end if ride share wants to play, it's gonna cost somebody.

There wouldn't be nearly as many people involved in this gig if Travis was honest you know. Forced commercial, even at reduced rates, WILL thin the driver herd without any doubts. Just hope you aren't one of the poor schmucks that insurance companies/regulators will point to in a bad accident gone viral like the guy in Cali that ran over the little girl. I feel sorry for that poor bastard. Hopefully Uber will cover his ass for P.R. purposes, but when that starts happening in every state, look out below.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Courageous said:


> yep...that be about average.


Actually it's not. I've been able to get quotes for less. When you subtract what you're already paying for insurance and insert the cost of a real policy, it's just not that bad for a full time driver to be covered. Part time. Not a chance at these rates. And UberX even full time won't be nearly as attractive either.

The driver flood will stop.


----------



## scrurbscrud

UberLuxbod said:


> And that is the point.
> 
> Uber(and no doubt Lyft+Sidecar) are pushing rates down to gain market share.
> 
> *Part of the plan is to ensure drivers commit Insurance Fraud.*
> 
> As then they don't need to factor in the high Insurance costs.
> 
> The more you look.
> 
> The more it looks like a Ponzi scheme.
> 
> $500 a month seems reasonable.
> 
> And compares with prices for similar Ins in the UK.
> 
> Many drivers pay around £3000/4000 a year.
> 
> Even basic coverage that only covers pax and any other parties involved in an incident not any of your own vehicle damage (3rd Party Only in UK) can easily run to £200 a month.
> 
> I implore all UberX to gey their Insurance sorted correctly.
> 
> Apart from ShooUber he can do what he likes as he or indeed she is an abusive amd ignorant fool.


*Pretty pathetic business plan ain't it?*

Enticing citizens into fraudulent behavior never seems to work out once the press gets ahold of it. The sad part is that driver awareness and financial desperation is currently the 'driving' force. I think the politicians like it too because it keeps the starving masses problem somewhat mitigated so we don't attack them.


----------



## Chicago-uber

With the winter coming up, I am getting really concerned with the insurance coverage. No amount of surge is worth it if I get into an accident and risking my insurance drooping me. I do not trust uberx insurance to cover me in case of accident


----------



## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> Well, in all fairness, the drunk driving excuse is how they managed to snowball so many city councils. In reality, most of us know that is a load of crap, it is hard to imagine that there are that many drunks departing hotels to go to the airport, or arriving at the airport to go to a hotel ;-)


No seriously. This part of ride share is a service. You might also consider that the masses of this country are so freakin' poor that a lot of people can't even afford a car. I'm sure you've heard the recent numbers on median income? It's just ridiculous. 1/2 the people in this country make less than $23 grand a year. How the hell anybody can survive on that is beyond me.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Chicago-uber said:


> With the winter coming up, I am getting really concerned with the insurance coverage. No amount of surge is worth it if I get into an accident and risking my insurance drooping me. I do not trust uberx insurance to cover me in case of accident


You shouldn't even be on the road without suitable coverage if you have any respect for not getting devoured by the system. Every last one of you knows that being on the road a lot more than you normally are exposes you to a huge amount of additional close calls. That's one of the reasons I started digging into this. I'm in 2-3 close shaves every week for gods sake from all the yahoos out there driving drunk.


----------



## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> No seriously. This part of ride share is a service. You might also consider that the masses of this country are so freakin' poor that a lot of people can't even afford a car. I'm sure you've heard the recent numbers on median income? It's just ridiculous. 1/2 the people in this country make less than $23 grand a year. How the hell anybody can survive on that is beyond me.


Well they aren't hauling the poor here, when camping in front of the airport or Four Seasons during F1. The truth is, with their ridiculous surges, drivers will probably clean up during the festivals, they have gone about the entry into this market in such an underhanded manner, they are taking money out of local drivers pockets. (They bring in people from other cities) they completely lied to the Circuit of the Americas morons ( they told them they have a fixed rate) so COTA is allowing them to bypass the crap the rest of us have to endure. We are booked solid, but some of the smaller companies are not, and we have talked to several who are ready to throw in the towel and go underground in order to remain competitive. Ultimately, they will be at an advantage when the insurance regulations are adjusted in the city. I am confident that will happen within the next year or so. It is only going to take a few accidents for the CITYIOTS (my new label for the council!!) to wake up.

As for us, and many companies like us, we plan to reject the reservation minimums, and offer instant hails during peak seasons, and we will probably advertise our full insurance and 24x7 live customer service. We just have to get past the airport's transition period because we are not going to give up our spot on the limousine line prematurely.

Once we are in full competition with these TNC companies, we will keep syphoning their higher end riders who resent 4-6x surges even though they have the disposable cash. Then we will syphon the passengers who have followed the news and learned more about the insurance gaps. We have already heard from a couple of hotels that they will advise their guests to call us or others before using this service. They don't want these cars on their property without full commercial insurance.

We've already syphoned a few of their potential drivers, who had enough good sense to read the fine print and recognize the risk. One of them will be spending three days with a visitor; earning hourly rates, in a vehicle we own, insure, and even cleaned for her. Now THAT'S TCOB! Client AND driver!


----------



## scrurbscrud

Don't get me wrong here. I can certainly appreciate the real threat ride share poses to established cab co.'s

But cab co's should also understand that there is no way in hell they can financially justify sopping up excess demand. This is where Uber will beat taxi hands down every single time. That's where the real issue is for the public. 

The cab co's JUST CAN'T GET ER DONE. That's a monetary fact. Can't be done. The overflow demand demands ride share. I'd just like to see it done a little better for driver protections. There is undoubtedly a public benefit. The public themselves say so. And I know so from the user end as well. Where I live you still couldn't get a cab without a very long wait time anywhere out of high demand areas. Ain't gonna happen. Even in off times you'll wait 2 hours if you're far enough out and most of the time they will no show.


----------



## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> Don't get me wrong here. I can certainly appreciate the real threat ride share poses to established cab co.'s
> 
> But cab co's should also understand that there is no way in hell they can financially justify sopping up excess demand. This is where Uber will beat taxi hands down every single time. That's where the real issue is for the public.
> 
> The cab co's JUST CAN'T GET ER DONE. That's a monetary fact. Can't be done. The overflow demand demands ride share. I'd just like to see it done a little better for driver protections. There is undoubtedly a public benefit. The public themselves say so. And I know so from the user end as well. Where I live you still couldn't get a cab without a very long wait time anywhere out of high demand areas. Ain't gonna happen. Even in off times you'll wait 2 hours if you're far enough out and most of the time they will no show.


Well we aren't a cab company. We are a "black car/limo" company. We have had our act together all along, we have played by the ridiculous rules in the city, which have prevented us from providing the very service these guys are providing when targeting large venues at surge rates.

Uber cannot beat taxi rates "hands down" for the long haul without ridiculous surge pricing for the return trip, which puts them in competition with us. It simply cannot be done: there will never be enough drivers on the streets willing to haul people for a few bucks 24 hours a day, within a 10 minute arrival time, assuming the risks! Eventually, the only people stupid enough to do that will be the very drunks they are supposed to be picking up!! Lmao!!!


----------



## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> Well we aren't a cab company. We are a "black car/limo" company. We have had our act together all along, we have played by the ridiculous rules in the city, which have prevented us from providing the very service these guys are providing when targeting large venues at surge rates.
> 
> Uber cannot beat taxi rates "hands down" for the long haul without ridiculous surge pricing for the return trip, which puts them in competition with us. It simply cannot be done: there will never be enough drivers on the streets willing to haul people for a few bucks 24 hours a day, within a 10 minute arrival time, assuming the risks! Eventually, the only people stupid enough to do that will be the very drunks they are supposed to be picking up!! Lmao!!!


I'm just sayin' that nobody can justify the fleet expense of dealing with employees and reg. issues to deal with surge times. It can't be done. It would be financial suicide.


----------



## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> Don't get me wrong here. I can certainly appreciate the real threat ride share poses to established cab co.'s
> 
> But cab co's should also understand that there is no way in hell they can financially justify sopping up excess demand. This is where Uber will beat taxi hands down every single time. That's where the real issue is for the public.
> 
> The cab co's JUST CAN'T GET ER DONE. That's a monetary fact. Can't be done. The overflow demand demands ride share. I'd just like to see it done a little better for driver protections. There is undoubtedly a public benefit. The public themselves say so. And I know so from the user end as well. Where I live you still couldn't get a cab without a very long wait time anywhere out of high demand areas. Ain't gonna happen. Even in off times you'll wait 2 hours if you're far enough out and most of the time they will no show.


You know, they could have approached this a little differently. They could have used the Execucar model, downsized to cover non- luxury vehicles. They could have challenged regulations such as fleet specification, number of cars required, advance reservation minimums, etc. these are the regulations which most people would quickly agree to abandon, because they have absolutely nothing to do with safety, or availability. Again, I remain completely unimpressed by the alleged business acumen of this company, unless the objective is a short sell


----------



## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> I'm just sayin' that nobody can justify the fleet expense of dealing with employees and reg. issues to deal with surge times. It can't be done. It would be financial suicide.


Well, these are the issues which many city regulators have forced on companies. Those were the regulations which should have been challenged and removed for all. Instead of coming to town and joining forces with companies like ours which have tried to get these regulations removed for all, they came in requesting, (make that demanding), to have special exemptions. The special event permitting process in Austin is absolutely ridiculous, and should bring great shame to the city regardless of the type of transportation fleet. We could have been a great ally/affiliate. Instead, we detest them because of their tactics.
I tend to look at every competitor as a potential ally, because during peak seasons, we are all in the mess together. Uber has worked very hard to draw a line we are guaranteed to never cross. 
Dumb, dumb, dumb.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Jes between me and you I have no problem with some of that surge money trickling down to the little people where it belongs. To have these needs serviced by large conglomerates always ends up in a train wreck of poor service and over pricing. It won't take much tweaking to get ride share on track imho. 

Drivers themselves can take care of themselves. That's the way it landed in my prior biz life. That's the way it'll land here.


----------



## Tx rides

scrurbscrud said:


> Jes between me and you I have no problem with some of that surge money trickling down to the little people where it belongs. To have these needs serviced by large conglomerates always ends up in a train wreck of poor service and over pricing. It won't take much tweaking to get ride share on track imho.
> 
> Drivers themselves can take care of themselves. That's the way it landed in my prior biz life. That's the way it'll land here.


Don't get me wrong, I understand the drivers need surge rates. But THAT is not the model Uber sold to the public. (Better, cheaper, faster than a cab)
Better? Maybe. Faster? Sometimes. Both, CHEAPER than a cab? No way. Then, once they hit more than 3x rates for airport runs, they are competing with us.
As she said in that movie: "we're older, and we have more insurance"!!!
 Besides if one is going to pay those rates, with our company they will always get a pro. Someone who has been trained. Someone who knows the city with minimal reliance on GPS. Even though those drivers may be available with Uber, a pax has no way to request them directly.(another negative aspect for good drivers)

IMO this is another tech company with no sense of the business demands. We saw this in the 90s, and few survived. We will see it again. They need to heed their own advice: adapt, or die.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Tx rides said:


> Don't get me wrong, I understand the drivers need surge rates. But THAT is not the model Uber sold to the public. (Better, cheaper, faster than a cab)


We all know pretty well by now that that arrangement is going to be a very short lived deal on these low rates. It will die it's own well deserved death. And rightfully so. Just like there are far fewer Amway people. Today they are just dupes. UberX drivers are just dupes who can run the simplest of math or consider their real risks. Once of few of them get their asses handed to them on a platter and it goes viral, that should about do the trick.

Nuthin' personal to drivers, but there is very little 'easy money' in this world. You either protect your own ass or the system will take you down sooner rather than later and that will come.



> Better? Maybe. Faster? Sometimes. Both, CHEAPER than a cab? No way. Then, once they hit more than 3x rates for airport runs, they are competing with us.


Indeed. That's the only thing that makes it lucrative at this point because the *cabs just can't handle it. Fact.*


> As she said in that movie: "we're older, and we have more insurance"!!!
> Besides if one is going to pay those rates, with our company they will always get a pro. Someone who has been trained. Someone who knows the city with minimal reliance on GPS. Even though those drivers may be available with Uber, a pax has no way to request them directly.(another negative aspect for good drivers)


I'd expect that to survive the game, anyone left will have to have game to survive with. Personally I kinda like having an english speaking driver. Not saying this is the deal in your area, but it is the case in a lot and that has been part of the Uber appeal.



> IMO this is another tech company with no sense of the business demands. We saw this in the 90s, and few survived. We will see it again. They need to heed their own advice: adapt, or die.


I'd generally agree. And professional service will always have it's place. I know many business people who will only go UberBlack or SUV.


----------



## Brady

The insurance industry is just beginning to catch up with ride sharing. A very few companies right now are offering hybrid policy for ride sharing drivers that is beyond coverage for personal use in a personal vehicle but isn't a full commercial policy. I'm not aware that any of the major companies such as Progressive, Geico, State Farm, etc. offering these policies yet. I suspect that within the year, all off them will have policies tailored for ride sharing drivers. That's going to decrease our ambiguity/risk but increase operating costs for drivers. Regardless, no UberX driver should transport more than four passengers. I frequently get requests to driver more than 4 passengers. I tell them that they need to order an additional Uber.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Brady said:


> The insurance industry is just beginning to catch up with ride sharing. A very few companies right now are offering hybrid policy for ride sharing drivers that is beyond coverage for personal use in a personal vehicle but isn't a full commercial policy. I'm not aware that any of the major companies such as Progressive, Geico, State Farm, etc. offering these policies yet. I suspect that within the year, all off them will have policies tailored for ride sharing drivers. That's going to decrease our ambiguity/risk but increase operating costs for drivers. Regardless, no UberX driver should transport more than four passengers. I frequently get requests to driver more than 4 passengers. I tell them that they need to order an additional Uber.


Anyone who says the above simply hasn't checked. Call a professional commercial insurance broker and find out you're wrong.


----------



## Saanvi

Make sense .. I think Im done with Uber .. to risky .. Criminal cases if some one catch .. No insurance ... for some extra money taking this much risk not worth ...

How much i make per week .. 600$ -150$(gas)-Tax- car usage = may be 300 ... on top of that ratings . too many illegal things .. risk is too high . one fine day we will have to face some accidents as we are keep driving late nights


----------



## Tx rides

Brady said:


> The insurance industry is just beginning to catch up with ride sharing. A very few companies right now are offering hybrid policy for ride sharing drivers that is beyond coverage for personal use in a personal vehicle but isn't a full commercial policy. I'm not aware that any of the major companies such as Progressive, Geico, State Farm, etc. offering these policies yet. I suspect that within the year, all off them will have policies tailored for ride sharing drivers. That's going to decrease our ambiguity/risk but increase operating costs for drivers. Regardless, no UberX driver should transport more than four passengers. I frequently get requests to driver more than 4 passengers. I tell them that they need to order an additional Uber.


Of course it will increase costs. The risk is increased. One if the warning signs to industry leaders has been the willingness of thousands of drivers to throw caution to the wind on their dime.


----------



## Berliner

Tx rides said:


> Uber cannot beat taxi rates "hands down" for the long haul without ridiculous surge pricing for the return trip, which puts them in competition with us. It simply cannot be done: there will never be enough drivers on the streets willing to haul people for a few bucks 24 hours a day, within a 10 minute arrival time, assuming the risks! Eventually, the only people stupid enough to do that will be the very drunks they are supposed to be picking up!! Lmao!!!


That´s it. When Uber startet in Berlin /Germany the rates were (converted):

Base: $ 2.00
Mile: $ 1.25
Min: $ 0.32

Minimum Fare Ride: $ 5.00
Cancellation Fee: $ 5.00

After the judgment from our court that this is illegal without commercial insurance, DL for public transport and concession for the car, they tranfered to a real Rideshare-Community. That means here: only gas, oil and tires are allowed to be deducted.

The new rates, before cut, are now:

Base: $ 0.00
Mile: $ 0.44
Min: $ 0.00

Minimum Fare Ride: $ 0.00
Cancellation Fee: $ 0.00

Result: no Uber in town.


----------



## scrurbscrud

Berliner said:


> Mile: $ 0.44
> Min: $ 0.00
> 
> Minimum Fare Ride: $ 0.00
> Cancellation Fee: $ 0.00
> 
> Result: no Uber in town.


That's about the actual fare for total miles that UberX drivers get here. Funny how that works huh? Drivers are too dense to get the picture tho.


----------



## Worcester Sauce

Chicago-uber said:


> With the winter coming up, I am getting really concerned with the insurance coverage. No amount of surge is worth it if I get into an accident and risking my insurance drooping me. I do not trust uberx insurance to cover me in case of accident


smart


----------



## scrurbscrud

Drivers who don't have insurance suited for this work:


----------



## Bart McCoy

UberLuxbod said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Many US based UberX drivers need to think hard about their Insurance arrangements.
> 
> Even more important if they are leasing via Santander.


i was wondering about how Uber does the deal where u can get a car for $1,000 via Santander
now of course these cars have full coverage
the whole crux of this deal is that you will be leasing to car to do Uber. so when you buying the car do you tell the insurance you're getting a car off a Uber promo?
kinda amazing how this is a "Uber" car arrangement,and insurance compaines are insuring new cars to do the ubering....


----------



## lmitch54

UberFrolic said:


> Define "finding out".


How is it possible for the insurance company to find out you are ridesharing, if I don't tell them??


----------



## yojimboguy

lmitch54 said:


> How is it possible for the insurance company to find out you are ridesharing, if I don't tell them??


Somebody looks into your vehicle registration and sees Uber's insurance listed for some reason.

A family member mentions it to your insurance adjuster.

Somebody notices an Uber logo on your dash or windshield.

Somebody sees the Uber app open on your phone.

You have an Uber accicent, but Uber's insurance company contacts your private company for some reason, like to pick up part of the costs for some reason.

Some people claim there is a big list of Uber drivers available to insurance companies. I have no idea if this is true.


----------



## Aris

So does the Uber insurance cover when doing a trip? What do you tell your insurance company if the asked how many miles you have on you vehicle? Your mileage is recorded anytime you have work done to it, even getting an oil change.


----------



## Older Chauffeur

Aris said:


> So does the Uber insurance cover when doing a trip? What do you tell your insurance company if the asked how many miles you have on you vehicle? Your mileage is recorded anytime you have work done to it, even getting an oil change.


Uber's insurance appears to lean more toward protecting the company (no surprise there, right?) and the pax than the driver. There are several places where you can read how the coverage works, but basically they have a million dollar liability policy from the time you accept a trip to its conclusion. Where you are in CA, state law requires that they have liability insurance for the "gap" that occurs when you have the app on but are waiting for a ping, and your personal insurance doesn't cover for hire use of your vehicle. A TNC rider or rideshare policy is definitely the way to go.
Uber's comprehensive and collision insurance has a $1000 deductible when it comes to fixing your car.
As to the mileage issue, my insurer (AAA) asks for odometer readings before each renewal. There is wording in there that says they can require me to bring my cars in for visual confirmation, but they've never done that. I know they do check the mileage showing at each smog inspection, because they have told me that in the past. (They also emphatically state that they don't cover any type of for hire use, be it for pax, food, papers or whatever.) If there is some data base where service odometer readings are stored by VIN, I guess insurance companies could have access to it.
I guess the bottom line is don't lie to your insurance company, about anything. It might be considered fraud.


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## RobertDavid

I just started driving last week and I'm usually pretty good at doing some background work. Well my background work was a week off and I'm just realizing now what a risk I'm taking by not knowing about the Insurance needed to do this correctly. I just assumed, probably like most new drivers, that since Uber requested a copy of my insurance that was all I needed to do this job. I didn't know.
I'm not like a lot of these guys that have the attitude "how is your insurance gonna know" or "don't say anything"..........I've worked too hard in my life to have all that put in jeopardy. How they will know is when you get in an accident and are being sued and that's just not worth that risk to me. To be legal it would cost me way more than I ever planned to make. Thank You gentlemen for explaining things better than Uber ever did...........Bob


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## Older Chauffeur

^^^ wise move


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## AuxCordBoston

lmitch54 said:


> How is it possible for the insurance company to find out you are ridesharing, if I don't tell them??


You are driving with the uber app turned on. A car slams into you. You are knocked unconscious. The police and EMT's arrive. The police see that your app is on. The police enter into their report that you were hit by a vehicle while driving for uber. Your insurance co reads the report. Your insurance co drops you.


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## I_Like_Spam

AuxCordBoston said:


> You are driving with the uber app turned on. A car slams into you. You are knocked unconscious. The police and EMT's arrive. The police see that your app is on. The police enter into their report that you were hit by a vehicle while driving for uber. Your insurance co reads the report. Your insurance co drops you.


The insurance company isn't the only outfit that Uber drivers need to worry about "finding out". If they are carrying a note on the vehicle, the financial institution can call in the note and charge you for insurance to protect them for their collateral being used for Uber. Car notes specify that the vehicle is being used for personal use- not as a livery vehicle- this use increases the risk to GMAC or whomever as it affects the value of their collateral.


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## louvit

I am really worried about this I actually called Geico and they replied this

this is the reply I received from Geico after I asked them about rideshare insurance. This make me nervous!!!!!!! Am I really fully covered by UBER when online with them?

*We have received your inquiry about your coverage and will be glad to address your concerns. 

Your GEICO personal auto policy excludes coverage when you drive your vehicle for ridesharing or any other service where you transport people or products for a fee. 
Be sure to check with your ridesharing company, as they may be able to help you find insurance on your vehicle. 
Thank you for the opportunity to assist you today and for using our online services. 

then I asked

What is I am going home from a rideshare and am not online with the rideshare company. Are you saying that Geico will exclude me only when I am online with rideshare.

Here was the answer....

Dear LV:
We have received your reply and will be happy to advise you.
Regrettably, we are unable to answer that question at this time. If something were to happen in a scenario like you proposed, it would be reviewed by our claims department to see if coverage would or would not apply. We apologize for any frustration this may cause.
Again, we would recommend contacting the ridesharing company for insurance.
Thank you for the opportunity to assist you today and for using our online services.



Sincerely,


Once again does UBER cover us and if I am offline does Geico still cover me? Does anyone have a clear understanding of are we insured??? on or off app*


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## AuxCordBoston

louvit said:


> I am really worried about this I actually called Geico and they replied this
> 
> this is the reply I received from Geico after I asked them about rideshare insurance. This make me nervous!!!!!!! Am I really fully covered by UBER when online with them?
> 
> *We have received your inquiry about your coverage and will be glad to address your concerns.
> 
> Your GEICO personal auto policy excludes coverage when you drive your vehicle for ridesharing or any other service where you transport people or products for a fee.
> Be sure to check with your ridesharing company, as they may be able to help you find insurance on your vehicle.
> Thank you for the opportunity to assist you today and for using our online services.
> 
> then I asked
> 
> What is I am going home from a rideshare and am not online with the rideshare company. Are you saying that Geico will exclude me only when I am online with rideshare.
> 
> Here was the answer....
> 
> Dear LV:
> We have received your reply and will be happy to advise you.
> Regrettably, we are unable to answer that question at this time. If something were to happen in a scenario like you proposed, it would be reviewed by our claims department to see if coverage would or would not apply. We apologize for any frustration this may cause.
> Again, we would recommend contacting the ridesharing company for insurance.
> Thank you for the opportunity to assist you today and for using our online services.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> Once again does UBER cover us and if I am offline does Geico still cover me? Does anyone have a clear understanding of are we insured??? on or off app*


What state are you in?


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## Older Chauffeur

AuxCordBoston said:


> What state are you in?


He's in Florida.


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## louvit

Any more help here? I may just quit due to this and being on social security this small amount on money helps out a lot. But I will not risk everything on this insurance shi!!


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## Older Chauffeur

louvit said:


> Any more help here? I may just quit due to this and being on social security this small amount on money helps out a lot. But I will not risk everything on this insurance shi!!


You could try posting in the FL forum if you haven't already. People familiar with your state might have some ideas.


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## louvit

Thanks Older I didn't know there were such sections here, I just joined last week or so


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## Older Chauffeur

louvit said:


> Thanks Older I didn't know there were such sections here, I just joined last week or so


Scroll down on the main Forums page to find the listing of cities. They aren't entirely alphabetically listed, so check for FL cities.


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## Creekman

Former Yellow Driver said:


> "Busted"? What does that mean? After they pay for your claim they drop your insurance or they refuse the non Uber related claim? BTW - how do they determine that you occasionally do Ubering if you don't tell them and your accident was not Uber related?


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## Creekman

Your Vin is in the system. Insurance can check to see if your auto is registered on uber. If it is a major accident I guess they can check phone records to see if you were online with uber at the time of the accident. If this happens during period one, no liability or collision. Huge risk with low pay. Call me paranoid but this is where I am


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## mountainchick04

Here is a fun story. I was out working a few weeks ago and was on my way to pick up a PAX when I was involved in a hit and run. Other driver ran a red light and I ran into the side of them. Driver took off. I called the cops and they came and wrote a police report. They asked what I was doing and I said I was going to meet someone. That was it, no mention of ride-share what so ever. Progressive contacted Uber and found out that I was online during the time of the accident. They will not pay my claim. I now have a car that I cannot drive, that I owe 12K on, all so I could make $10 an hour. This just happened so I'm looking into my options. I doubt Uber would even begin to think about covering since I didn't actually have the PAX in the car. It's a bad situation all around. I would recommend getting the insurance. It's really not worth the risk.


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## I_Like_Spam

mountainchick04 said:


> I now have a car that I cannot drive, that I owe 12K on, all so I could make $10 an hour. This just happened so I'm looking into my options. I doubt Uber would even begin to think about covering since I didn't actually have the PAX in the car. It's a bad situation all around. I would recommend getting the insurance. It's really not worth the risk.


Since you have a note on the car, the note probably says that you bought the car for personal reason, not as a commercial livery vehicle. The insurance company may call in your note immediately. It certainly could be within their rights.


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## steveK2016

mountainchick04 said:


> Here is a fun story. I was out working a few weeks ago and was on my way to pick up a PAX when I was involved in a hit and run. Other driver ran a red light and I ran into the side of them. Driver took off. I called the cops and they came and wrote a police report. They asked what I was doing and I said I was going to meet someone. That was it, no mention of ride-share what so ever. Progressive contacted Uber and found out that I was online during the time of the accident. They will not pay my claim. I now have a car that I cannot drive, that I owe 12K on, all so I could make $10 an hour. This just happened so I'm looking into my options. I doubt Uber would even begin to think about covering since I didn't actually have the PAX in the car. It's a bad situation all around. I would recommend getting the insurance. It's really not worth the risk.


Ouch, this sucks that this happened. For those that feel the risk is worth it, here's your example as to why it is not. No mention of Uber in police report but Progressive proactively looked into whether or not the driver had an account with Uber and whether they were online at the time.

While mountainchick04 learned the hard way, hopefully other drivers learn the easy way by reading these posts and getting the proper insurance.


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## Kaz

If you were online, there is a chance Uber will cover you, contact Uber. And I am suprised Progressive has not dropped you, they are not fans of rideshare at all. How did Progressive find out you drive for Uber? I have never heard of an insurance co contacting Uber just to see if youre an active driver... if they suspect you are or the officer mentioned an Uber placard on your window, I dont see why Progressive would contact Uber. I have a rideshare coverage with USAA- awesome and its cheap if you qualify for USAA. What is the approx damage amount, have you gotten an estimate? Again, contact Uber's claim dept and tell them you were online. Post an update please.

QUOTE="mountainchick04, post: 2627543, member: 98774"]Here is a fun story. I was out working a few weeks ago and was on my way to pick up a PAX when I was involved in a hit and run. Other driver ran a red light and I ran into the side of them. Driver took off. I called the cops and they came and wrote a police report. They asked what I was doing and I said I was going to meet someone. That was it, no mention of ride-share what so ever. Progressive contacted Uber and found out that I was online during the time of the accident. They will not pay my claim. I now have a car that I cannot drive, that I owe 12K on, all so I could make $10 an hour. This just happened so I'm looking into my options. I doubt Uber would even begin to think about covering since I didn't actually have the PAX in the car. It's a bad situation all around. I would recommend getting the insurance. It's really not worth the risk.[/QUOTE]


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## mountainchick04

I don't know if they are now proactively checking or what but I did my best to hide it. There's no mention of the Uber sticker in the police report and I peeled the Uber and Lyft stickers out of my car before the insurance adjuster showed up. It doesn't surprise me. Insurance companies will do anything to get out of paying. And no, I haven't been dropped, but I wouldn't be surprised if I was when it comes time to renew my policy.


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## louvit

This is what I worry about daily! If Geico doesn't start coverage soon I will switch to state farm they started tnc coverage 2 weeks ago. As of right now I am only driving until June 30th, I am on SS disability and I really need this money.


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## I_Like_Spam

mountainchick04 said:


> Insurance companies will do anything to get out of paying.


I would expect that the adjuster would go the extra yard, if it was a large claim. Insurance companies do want to avoid paying large claims they aren't liable for.


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## steveK2016

Kaz said:


> If you were online, there is a chance Uber will cover you, contact Uber.


It wouldn't hurt to ask, but their Collision coverage is contingent on valid insurance, if Progressive is saying they won't cover the claim then she did not have valid insurance.



mountainchick04 said:


> I don't know if they are now proactively checking or what but I did my best to hide it. There's no mention of the Uber sticker in the police report and I peeled the Uber and Lyft stickers out of my car before the insurance adjuster showed up. It doesn't surprise me. Insurance companies will do anything to get out of paying. And no, I haven't been dropped, but I wouldn't be surprised if I was when it comes time to renew my policy.


Well yea, it's their job to make sure those that violate their policies, put themselves in a greater risk category but does not want to pay the extra for such coverage doesn't skate by with such violation.

Honestly, at this point, you might as well get up front with them. Last thing you want to do is keep paying your premiums and they end up canceling you anyways. Before you make that next payment, make sure you have proper insurance if you were to get a new car and committed not to Uber in it.



louvit said:


> This is what I worry about daily! If Geico doesn't start coverage soon I will switch to state farm they started tnc coverage 2 weeks ago. As of right now I am only driving until June 30th, I am on SS disability and I really need this money.


Don't wait another day, get the proper insurance.


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## TaroTeaFan

Usually you need find a broker to review your policy. It doesn't really cost that much to get a right endorsement. I can help you review your policy if you need


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## Telsa34

Kaz said:


> This is an issue. I have not told my insurance company I do this even though they asked me if I used my car for a taxi, etc. Im sorry but I know for a fact your insurance company will deny a claim or cancel your policy if they find out youre Ubering. Allstate, State Farm, they're all catching on to this. If you are involved in an accident, even while on your own time, if your insurance company finds out you do this, you are busted. I may call another insurance company and ask for a quote on a taxi policy but I think its going to be alot of work to get a policy for this. If you get into an accident, your fault or no, and you are NOT on a call but you are online, will UBER cover you? Does anyone know the answer to this? I would feel better if I saw something in writing and UBER does not give us alot of info. Thanks-


I spoke to Allstate today and I was told specifically that if you're involved in an accident and you can prove that you were not on Uber time that would not jeopardize your insurance since your accident was not related to Uber.


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## mountainchick04

Just came back to give an update to everyone. After my claim was denied by Progressive I filed a claim with Uber. They immediately said that I was not covered because I had no passenger in the car. So I hired a lawyer and had the lawyer contact Uber and that did the trick. According to Uber, if you are in Period 2 (on your way to pick up PAX) then you are covered only when your personal insurance denies the claim. So I'm working with James River and hopefully my lein holder will receive payment soon. So things turned out ok, but if I had been in period 1 then I would have been completely screwed. Also Progressive hasn't dropped me. I did have to sign something saying I wouldn't use my car for ride share any longer. I was happy to because after this whole experience, my days of driving Uber are over. It's not worth the money.


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## Telsa34

You're still out $1,000 deductible that comes out of your pocket if I'm in. One or. Two there's no Uber passengers in my car I would not file with Uber first I would file with my own insurance company and tell them that I did not have the app on if they ask they may not even ask I'd tell him I was going to the grocery store of course if they ask then you have to decide whether you're going to lie or not I don't think your insurance company is going to request records for Uber to verify if your on the app it's an unfortunate circumstance I'm glad it worked out good for you


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## Maven

_*If you are in the USA and have not already done so then please read*_
_*https://uberpeople.net/threads/uber-and-lyft-car-insurance.60340/*_


Kaz said:


> This is an issue. I have not told my insurance company I do this even though they asked me if I used my car for a taxi, etc. Im sorry but I know for a fact your insurance company will deny a claim or cancel your policy if they find out youre Ubering. Allstate, State Farm, they're all catching on to this. If you are involved in an accident, even while on your own time, if your insurance company finds out you do this, you are busted. I may call another insurance company and ask for a quote on a taxi policy but I think its going to be alot of work to get a policy for this. If you get into an accident, your fault or no, and you are NOT on a call but you are online, will UBER cover you? Does anyone know the answer to this? I would feel better if I saw something in writing and UBER does not give us alot of info. Thanks-


If you are not online with Uber then Uber insurance does NOT cover you.


UberFrolic said:


> Define "finding out".


Most insurers rely on the honesty of potential policyholder's answers when applying for insurance. When a claim is made insurers may investigate further if there is anything suspicious or the total cost exceeds $10,000 to $20,000.


Yougottabekiddingme! said:


> Another Uber oversight. Imagine that


Uber lies by omission, not telling new drivers the risks they assume, the inadequacies of Uber insurance, or their current insurer will likely drop their personal coverage when it's determined they work for Uber.


Worcester Sauce said:


> What exactly does the Uber insurance policy cover?


See the link above.


Worcester Sauce said:


> ...NOT right. Read your policy. It excludes commercial use of your vehicle.


True for most (but not all) personal auto insurance policies.


lmitch54 said:


> How is it possible for the insurance company to find out you are ridesharing, if I don't tell them??


If an insurer has any reason to suspect that a policyholder does ridesharing then they may demand a letter from Uber/Lyft stating you do not work with them.


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## Mars Troll Number 4

mountainchick04 said:


> Just came back to give an update to everyone. After my claim was denied by Progressive I filed a claim with Uber. They immediately said that I was not covered because I had no passenger in the car. So I hired a lawyer and had the lawyer contact Uber and that did the trick. According to Uber, if you are in Period 2 (on your way to pick up PAX) then you are covered only when your personal insurance denies the claim. So I'm working with James River and hopefully my lein holder will receive payment soon. So things turned out ok, but if I had been in period 1 then I would have been completely screwed. Also Progressive hasn't dropped me. I did have to sign something saying I wouldn't use my car for ride share any longer. I was happy to because after this whole experience, my days of driving Uber are over. It's not worth the money.


Glad your only out $1000...

You could have been out a car plus still owed money on it.

Please spread your story.


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## cahayes2

I was in an accident driving Lyft last Thursday night. I was not at fault, thankfully. I've reported the accident to Lyft and am waiting to be contacted by an insurance adjuster. I know Lyft has a $2,500 deductible, but that will not apply to me since I'm not at fault, correct? It's my understanding that the other driver's insurance company will cover my damages. Am I on the right track here?


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## Telsa34

Yes the only drawback is is that you have to wait for his insurance to move forward with your repairs normally with your own insurance if his insurance didn't start right away you could report it on yours and they could recover the repair cost from the other Insurance Company, how can anyone one rely on Lyft for repairs what driver can afford the deductable in no fault states. Just sickening.



mountainchick04 said:


> Just came back to give an update to everyone. After my claim was denied by Progressive I filed a claim with Uber. They immediately said that I was not covered because I had no passenger in the car. So I hired a lawyer and had the lawyer contact Uber and that did the trick. According to Uber, if you are in Period 2 (on your way to pick up PAX) then you are covered only when your personal insurance denies the claim. So I'm working with James River and hopefully my lein holder will receive payment soon. So things turned out ok, but if I had been in period 1 then I would have been completely screwed. Also Progressive hasn't dropped me. I did have to sign something saying I wouldn't use my car for ride share any longer. I was happy to because after this whole experience, my days of driving Uber are over. It's not worth the money.


If I was in period 1 I would never contact Uber for this reason I would contact my own insurance


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## louvit

I stopped driving on June 30th and just started a few weeks ago after Geico finally gave me a commercial policy. I would never chance it


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