# I think the algorithm remembers me.. and it hates me



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

So, during the first and second waves of the pandemic, I tried my best on X.

I went from somewhere around a 4.94 rating (that began to fall before the shit really hit the fan, low quality pax) 90%+ AR, and Diamond status, to - 58% AR, 7% CR, and stuck at 4.88 (I'm sure I have been rated, however the numbers haven't budged).

I started X again when Eats had technical issues and customer tips fell sharply. At the same time, a driver buddy began doing X in the same market, brand spanking new.

While he's staying roughly in the same area (from my understanding), I'm getting TONS of ridiculous pings - awful ratings, long distance to pick up, and nothing remotely near the city (which has had consistant surges).

110 miles today, rounding up to four hours online (went offline for about 20 minutes hoping to get trips in the city), untold how many unpaid tolls, and I made $68.

The driver shortage is definitely a factor right now (see "PLEASE DRIVE") but it also appears that the algorithm is leaning towards brand new drivers like my buddy (well established on Eats, brand new to X) and giving me the bird.

It's so frustrating to have ENDLESS pings all day, every day, but the vast majority of them are not profitable. Combined with not having trip duration because there's no way I will hit 85% AR.

Thousands of trips on Uber, I'm getting the scraps.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> So, during the first and second waves of the pandemic, I tried my best on X.
> 
> I went from somewhere around a 4.94 rating (that began to fall before the shit really hit the fan, low quality pax) 90%+ AR, and Diamond status, to - 58% AR, 7% CR, and stuck at 4.88 (I'm sure I have been rated, however the numbers haven't budged).
> 
> ...


Driver of people 
Under 10% acceptance 
(Great record with the few I take)
4.99
Made 800 in 3 days 
You may be overthinking it
It's dealings with millions of people


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

wallae said:


> Driver of people
> Under 10% acceptance
> (Great record with the few I take)
> 4.99
> ...


Tiny market. 10%, I wouldn't have any trips.

And, the more pings I let go, the worse they become.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Well i used to think that after a bad day and then I have a $300 day
I think it’s all odds


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

The algorithm doesn’t hate you. It’s a program and doesn’t have capacity to feel. Remember it’s business, not personal.

The algorithm is probably coded in a way to entice new drivers. Plus new drivers will probably take rides/orders that are crud in the beginning. I remember my glory days of R/S and delivery and making more $ in less time, when I was newer. It’s tough.when you don’t get the promos/quests anymore.

Now is the time to plan for your future. You’re still young enough you can reinvent yourself in a new career. Don’t wait too long because the longer you’re self-employled, the tougher it will be to get a traditional job. Not impossible but tougher.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

wallae said:


> Well i used to think that after a bad day and then I have a $300 day
> I think it's all odds


The only way I'd get to a $300 day is if I were to drive properly 250+ miles and / or had a large quest. Every market is different. This market, right now, sucks.



Invisible said:


> The algorithm doesn't hate you. It's a program and doesn't have capacity to feel. Remember it's business, not personal.
> 
> The algorithm is probably coded in a way to entice new drivers. Plus new drivers will probably take rides/orders that are crud in the beginning. I remember my glory days of R/S and delivery and making more $ in less time, when I was newer. It's tough.when you don't get the promos/quests anymore.
> 
> Now is the time to plan for your future. You're still young enough you can reinvent yourself in a new career. Don't wait too long because the longer you're self-employled, the tougher it will be to get a traditional job. Not impossible but tougher.


As someone who has written lots of code, I can say with some certainty that the algorithm hates me. &#128514;

I don't really take it personally, it's doing what it was designed to do, it just really affects my bottom line.

New beginnings in 2022, hopefully. My wife and I will be purchasing a new home in a different area. I would not be driving if not for us moving here.

It's how I have kept food on the table at first because we abruptly moved to the city and now because of the pandemic. And I enjoy this work immensely, I just miss Fridays downtown with tips, happy pax going out on the town, and limited dead miles.


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## BestInDaWest (Apr 8, 2021)

i dont believe you're being targeted. i think it's luck of the draw. another factor that play's into it is the city you work and how you work and when you work. every city has it's own dynamics. There are times when I take what other drivers wouldent but in this job you dont know what ride will lead to the next and the next. it's like a treasure hunt. And there is no doubt that sometimes you have to eat a few bad apples to get to the good ones.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

BestInDaWest said:


> i dont believe you're being targeted. i think it's luck of the draw. another factor that play's into it is the city you work and how you work and when you work. every city has it's own dynamics. There are times when I take what other drivers wouldent but in this job you dont know what ride will lead to the next and the next. it's like a treasure hunt. And there is no doubt that sometimes you have to eat a few bad apples to get to the good ones.


Well, when I go online for X and I find that - consistantly - I'm ONLY getting pings with horrible ratings and long pick up times, that's a trend.

When a fellow driver about ten minutes away goes online and his experience is vastly different every day, that's suspect.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> So, during the first and second waves of the pandemic, I tried my best on X.
> 
> I went from somewhere around a 4.94 rating (that began to fall before the shit really hit the fan, low quality pax) 90%+ AR, and Diamond status, to - 58% AR, 7% CR, and stuck at 4.88 (I'm sure I have been rated, however the numbers haven't budged).
> 
> ...


Lol


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

I love you.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

SHalester said:


> I love you.


I love you too, bro ♥ &#128514;


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> I love you too, bro ♥ &#128514;


Wine-O-Clock at the @SHalester residence?


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> Wine-O-Clock at the @SHalester residence?


And here at the Ben residence. &#128514;

I'd give @SHalester a bro hug, especially after my "new normal" Friday afternoon on Uber.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

S K Y N E T


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Well, when I go online for X and I find that - consistantly - I'm ONLY getting pings with horrible ratings and long pick up times, that's a trend.
> 
> When a fellow driver about ten minutes away goes online and his experience is vastly different every day, that's suspect.


New drivers get a "honeymoon" period. Also, newer cars get better offers than older ones. What year is your car?


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

somedriverguy said:


> New drivers get a "honeymoon" period. Also, newer cars get better offers than older ones. What year is your car?


2018


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

somedriverguy said:


> Also, newer cars get better offers than older ones. What year is your car?


And what is you're source on this?


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> And what is you're source on this?


Yeah I wondered the same.

Anyway, same thing again today. There was the annual gymnastics competition downtown that has always generated TONS of trips. Huge surges. Every single damn ping was at least nine miles away, NOTHING in the downtown area, even when that's where I went online.

Had an airport trip, there was an $11 surge. I had a destination filter set for past downtown as I left the airport, nada. But I did get pings over twenty minutes away.

Go offline, drive back to the city, I'm right at the convention center and there's a heavy surge nearby. Go online. Guess what my next ping was? THE AIRPORT WITH NO SURGE, 14 damn minutes back from where I just was!!

The amount of dead miles and time is absurd. I did have one pax immediately hand me $5 in cash because he knew what's going on after speaking with other drivers. And how we're not being tipped by most pax.

Both of us agreed that it makes no sense why areas that have always been known as "busy", even noted by Uber recently in reference to where times are lower, are not producing pings.

Driving my butt off for very low income. There's massive demand everywhere. Why is every ping a ridiculous amount of miles away?

Definitely seeing the "honeymoon" phase with my buddy. He was in the city today and did not see the same type of thing.

Another weird thing is that my rating hasn't budged at all. And I know I'm being rated. The numbers are not changing.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> And what is you're source on this?


Hanging out with two SUV drivers who have their surge maxed getting pings before me on XL because their cars are newer. The food is good.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

somedriverguy said:


> Hanging out with two SUV drivers who have their surge maxed getting pings before me on XL because their cars are newer. The food is good.


I put my 2018 Civic right into the game off the lot, no changes in surges or quality of pings.

My buddy drives a (recently detailed - but Uber doesn't know that) 2016. But he's brand new to X.

So I have seen no reason why an individual's vehicle would come into play, especially in terms of endlessly awful pings.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Yeah I wondered the same.
> 
> Anyway, same thing again today. There was the annual gymnastics competition downtown that has always generated TONS of trips. Huge surges. Every single damn ping was at least nine miles away, NOTHING in the downtown area, even when that's where I went online.
> 
> ...


Somebody in customer service has it out for you. Have heard of other drivers seeing flags on their accounts when they visited green light hubs that said things like "$10 trips", "$5 trips", "10 min pick ups", "20 minute pick ups". Someone here says a green light worker felt sorry for him and turned on his "$100 trips" tag for a week. Im sure they have more brutal ones by now.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

somedriverguy said:


> Somebody in customer service has it out for you. Have heard of other drivers seeing flags on their accounts when they visited green light hubs that said things like "$10 trips", "$5 trips", "10 min pick ups", "20 minute pick ups". Someone here says a green light worker felt.sorry for him and turned on his "$100 trips" tag for a week. Im surenthey have more brutal ones by now.


That's interesting. Too bad our hub is permanently closed.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> That's interesting. Too bad our hub is permanently closed.


Yeah, some of those stories were way out there.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

But that savvy pax did say that his other drivers have echoed the same frustrations.

I've never been handed a cash tip IMMEDIATELY after a pax enters, and he had about a 30 minute wait for me to arrive

And if such a conspiracy is true, it's definitely not helping pax.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> But that savvy pax did say that his other drivers have echoed the same frustrations.
> 
> I've never been handed a cash tip IMMEDIATELY after a pax enters, and he had about a 30 minute wait for me to arrive


UBER plays games with the pax too. Its probably part of their next "you asked, and we answered!" campaign. Gotta tell a story about mean drivers unwilling to work so they slashed their pay and forced them to pick up pax at increased, upfront prices!


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

You know a lot more about AI than I do, but after watching the documentary “The Social Network” I understand much more than I did. I believe just like Google the Uber AI learns each one of us individually and treats each individually.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Seamus said:


> You know a lot more about AI than I do, but after watching the documentary "The Social Network" I understand much more than I did. I believe just like Google the Uber AI learns each one of us individually and treats each individually.


Most definitely.

I'm getting pings in areas where I used to accept them doing Eats (and to a lesser extent, X) in recent months, which is everywhere.

My buddy has always stayed in the same general area and his pings on X have reflected that.

So it makes sense to a point. But if the city proper is popping up with surges and there is a demand, I can't figure out why I'm not getting pings there - where I mainly drove for two years.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

somedriverguy said:


> Hanging out with two SUV drivers who have their surge maxed getting pings before me on XL because their cars are newer. The food is good.


That's not convincing evidence. It's merely coincidence.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Ben,

You described how every day starts off for me. I'm down 35% more or less.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

ANT 7 said:


> Ben,
> 
> You described how every day starts off for me. I'm down 35% more or less.


Glad I'm not alone. Eats may have been better for me today, and I accepted one order.

The restaurant was at capacity, after being told that there was some sort of an issue after waiting for at least six minutes, then being told "about five minutes", I bailed after at around eight minutes after.

Immediately had one of my only really profitable X pings of the day, but of course I had to sprint a block back to my car because there was no parking near the restaurant.

Restaurants at capacity, Eats without tips or few pings, and X with horrendous ratings and / or ridiculous miles.

Yet, Uber shows areas in the downtown area where demand is high (not getting pings there), surges are plentiful (I rarely actually get them, even if I'm in that area), and $23/hr (I've been around $16).

And they're trying to get more drivers out there on top of that. The Quests are decent but the dead miles it would take to meet that quota kind of balance out in terms of earnings.

I just don't get it.

Lyft is better in terms of dead miles but I want to know if there's a stop, they are not really offering any decent incentives, and I hate the odor of pot.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

We have nothing but an overabundance of shitty pings and too many drivers. Airport is still only at 11% and retail is at 15% capacity, so, a ton of my regular customer base has vanished.

I've gone full beast though. If you're more than 10 minutes away, screw you, I ain't going.......I'll grab anything else over 4.70 though, as long as it is within range.........who cares where it goes.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Seamus said:


> You know a lot more about AI than I do, but after watching the documentary "The Social Network" I understand much more than I did. I believe just like Google the Uber AI learns each one of us individually and treats each individually.


Entirely possible, which would mean the answer is much harder. He has to just eat it and stop taking shit pings AT ALL. It will take time, but eventually the algo would stop "ignoring" him for good pings.


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## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

These companies are run by complete slimbags, that think they hold all the cards.


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> 2018


Just crossed the line.

poor ratings, poor ar and 4 year old car.


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> That's not convincing evidence. It's merely coincidence.


I'll get back to you in a thousand years after I have 1 million instance colated for you so as to be statistically relevant.

Or you can try the experiment yourself with other cars in the same class.

Or you could just shit all over what someone is telling you with no counter evidence.

Up to you.


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> So, during the first and second waves of the pandemic, I tried my best on X.
> 
> I went from somewhere around a 4.94 rating (that began to fall before the shit really hit the fan, low quality pax) 90%+ AR, and Diamond status, to - 58% AR, 7% CR, and stuck at 4.88 (I'm sure I have been rated, however the numbers haven't budged).
> 
> ...


The Algorithm knows all.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Or


somedriverguy said:


> I'll get back to you in a thousand years after I have 1 million instance colated for you so as to be statistically relevant.
> 
> Or you can try the experiment yourself with other cars in the same class.
> 
> ...


Or maybe you can just figure out how to be more profitable, rather than feeling sorry for yourself. Sorry Dude, vying for sympathy is a waste of energy.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

somedriverguy said:


> Entirely possible, which would mean the answer is much harder. He has to just eat it and stop taking shit pings AT ALL. It will take time, but eventually the algo would stop "ignoring" him for good pings.


Then I don't earn anything. That's the problem - ALL I get are shit pings.

I'm going to try Eats today, if people are tipping (they stopped) I will just stick with that.



Amos69 said:


> Just crossed the line.
> 
> poor ratings, poor ar and 4 year old car.


I know 4.88 isn't spectacular but it is not considered "poor". And as I mentioned before, my rating isn't budging. As in, the individual star totals are not going up or down, despite me watching pax rate.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Then I don't earn anything. That's the problem - ALL I get are shit pings.
> 
> I'm going to try Eats today, if people are tipping (they stopped) I will just stick with that.
> 
> ...


You need to multi app Ben. In addition to UX, UE, Lyft, also do DD, GH, and IC. They all take turns sucking but which sucks the worse keeps changing over time. On the flip side, they all get hot sometimes. They take turns. Each market is different but the patterns are the same.

In my market UE used to be the best and now they're the worst. However occasionally they flash back to decency. DD is sometimes terrible and sometimes decent. GH is either great or I get "ghosted". Point is for four years I switch off to whatever is running the best at that time, and it keeps changing. You're putting too many eggs in the same basket.


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## Hellzbelz (Jun 4, 2020)

That's why I switched over to pax. I signed up for Lyft, but haven't even done 1 with them yet, have only been doing Uber. I also have DD as well as IC. Like Lyft, I haven't done IC yet, but will if X gets stingy like Eats did. I'll just follow the money.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Seamus said:


> You need to multi app Ben. In addition to UX, UE, Lyft, also do DD, GH, and IC. They all take turns sucking but which sucks the worse keeps changing over time. On the flip side, they all get hot sometimes. They take turns. Each market is different but the patterns are the same.
> 
> In my market UE used to be the best and now they're the worst. However occasionally they flash back to decency. DD is sometimes terrible and sometimes decent. GH is either great or I get "ghosted". Point is for four years I switch off to whatever is running the best at that time, and it keeps changing. You're putting too many eggs in the same basket.


I am on Lyft and DD as well. Absolutely can't stand the DD app and tips generally suck.

Lyft pax here usually suck these days, my car wreaks of weed all day. And I have no ability to see if there is a stop until I arrive, hard pass on stops.

I used to have Uber and Lyft running at the same time while I was waiting for a ping. It would be split between both most days. Now, it's endless stacked pings on both.

Doing Eats today, so far so good. Haven't had the urge to throw my phone off an overpass - yet &#128514;


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## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Or
> Or maybe you can just figure out how to be more profitable, rather than feeling sorry for yourself. Sorry Dude, vying for sympathy is a waste of energy.


None of my comments had anything to do with how much money I make or how I feel about the work I do. I was talking about how the algorithm works. Get back in your hole, troll.


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## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

somedriverguy said:


> None of my comments had anything to do with how much money I make or how I feel about the work I do. I was talking about how the algorithm works. Get back in your hole, troll.


Gaaaawd...how delusional can you be?



somedriverguy said:


> Hanging out with two SUV drivers who have their surge maxed getting pings before me on XL because their cars are newer. The food is good.


Yup as you stated, nothing to do with money. You're a joke!


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Uber is sending recycled pings to drivers starting with far away and gradually working closer to the driver’s starting location. After a batch of 20min pu’s that you decline, you’l see start seeing some 12-14mi offered but still have the longer pu’s interspersed. 
When you are the only available driver, you will keep getting a long distance pu, even if you’ve declined or if you accepted/cancelled. 
Uber used to assign the closest driver, for the most part. 
Now the priority is to service the longest waiting passenger 

A great example is here in Boston. We have “rematch” at the airport, and a queue lot for waiting in slow times. Pre-COVIS, the airport was self contained business area for rideshare and once on property, all driver business had to be for airport activities. Today, once you drop the pax at he central area, the next ping is often a long distance pu off property..

Uber does not have driver surge here so the algorithm seems a little more transparent.


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## Hellzbelz (Jun 4, 2020)

Diamondraider said:


> Uber is sending recycled pings to drivers starting with far away and gradually working closer to the driver's starting location. After a batch of 20min pu's that you decline, you'l see start seeing some 12-14mi offered but still have the longer pu's interspersed.
> When you are the only available driver, you will keep getting a long distance pu, even if you've declined or if you accepted/cancelled.
> Uber used to assign the closest driver, for the most part.
> Now the priority is to service the longest waiting passenger
> ...


This actually makes sense and would explain a great many things.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Well, when I go online for X and I find that - consistantly - I'm ONLY getting pings with horrible ratings and long pick up times, that's a trend.
> 
> When a fellow driver about ten minutes away goes online and his experience is vastly different every day, that's suspect.


The key to this is in your statement above. Fellow driver TEN MINUTES AWAY. This is all about location. If he's closer to the rider who's requesting a "good" trip than you are, he's going to get it. You are in a small market so I'm assuming there isn't a lot of volume. So you're going to have runs of bad luck. And hopefully also runs of good luck. It's just like real estate, when waiting for pings... LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. If you're having a run of bad luck, randomize your location. Try things. Experiment.



Seamus said:


> You know a lot more about AI than I do, but after watching the documentary "The Social Network" I understand much more than I did. I believe just like Google the Uber AI learns each one of us individually and treats each individually.


I'm intrigued about this. Please expand on it. You really think the AI is dialed in down to the individual driver level?


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

So, my first REALLY profitable day in a while - around $290, including the $80 quest I was chasing (30 trips). Eats for the lunch rush (fairly decent tips), the last trips on X.

205 miles (absolutely unheard of milage before), 15 trips, 6 hours and 18 online minutes. Three 30+ minute trips, one at the airport 13 minutes away with a $12 surge.

Came to a few conclusions / findings -


The driver shortage is definitely behind these pings. I think our few drivers are camping out downtown, trying to grab the surge. I only had one ping in the city today, one of the longer trips. 
I was misinterpreting the distance / time on stacked pings. X pings are timing out FAST for some reason, while I'm flying down the highway all I really see is the time to pick up / miles. But if I had time, I'd zoom into the map to see where the pickup location was - often not too far. 
I began to suspect what @Diamondraider posted - and that confirms it. Excellent post, helps a lot! 
It's like there is a fence around the downtown area. I took these sitting in a place where I would normally have a ping three or four minutes away, if that.


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## M62 (Sep 6, 2019)

Start making nice comments about Rohit. Once he notices your posts, he'll bump you up to level 1 ping status.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

M62 said:


> Start making nice comments about Rohit. Once he notices your posts, he'll bump you up to level 1 ping status.


I actually thought about that today as the Uber gods seemed to be throwing me a bone. &#128514;



Ted Fink said:


> The key to this is in your statement above. Fellow driver TEN MINUTES AWAY. This is all about location. If he's closer to the rider who's requesting a "good" trip than you are, he's going to get it. You are in a small market so I'm assuming there isn't a lot of volume. So you're going to have runs of bad luck. And hopefully also runs of good luck. It's just like real estate, when waiting for pings... LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. If you're having a run of bad luck, randomize your location. Try things. Experiment.
> 
> 
> I'm intrigued about this. Please expand on it. You really think the AI is dialed in down to the individual driver level?


It's not about being close anymore. I think @Diamondraider hit the nail on the head. It's about how long the pax has been waiting, it makes perfect sense now.

The demand here is ENORMOUS, the problem is that nobody is driving.

A $12 surge at the airport, 14 or so minutes away, was unheard of before - unless it was late at night. Nobody is in the queue, a lot that often ran out of spaces maybe has three cars in the queue.


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

That's such a different market from mine.

My city is 6X your size and I can sit for 2 hours at a time duiring the day. Sometimes it happens twice. We used to do 11,000 trips a day here, but that is down by about 35% overall I think, as it used to be non-stop. You had to go offline in order to hit the washroom..


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> I actually thought about that today as the Uber gods seemed to be throwing me a bone. &#128514;
> 
> 
> It's not about being close anymore. I think @Diamondraider hit the nail on the head. It's about how long the pax has been waiting, it makes perfect sense now.
> ...


Intriguing. IDK, maybe you have to take some of the bad pings, and burn sage, to appease the uber gods


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

ANT 7 said:


> That's such a different market from mine.
> 
> My city is 6X your size and I can sit for 2 hours at a time duiring the day. Sometimes it happens twice. We used to do 11,000 trips a day here, but that is down by about 35% overall I think, as it used to be non-stop. You had ot go offline to hit the washroom..


That's very interesting.

We're both seeing changes in our market. Starting a trip and then immediately being bombarded with multiple pings all over the place NEVER happened here before.



Ted Fink said:


> Intriguing. IDK, maybe you have to take some of the bad pings, and burn sage, to appease the uber gods


All I have had are "bad pings", at least compared to before the pandemic. But I'm gradually learning how to navigate the "new normal".

The areas that used to be slow are now the busy areas. The busy areas, forget it.

I think a mix of Eats and X is the solution until more drivers hit the road.

@Lissetti why am I still sideways?! &#128580; Get on it, I'm stressed enough &#129315;


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## ANT 7 (Oct 14, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> That's very interesting.
> 
> We're both seeing changes in our market. Starting a trip and then immediately being bombarded with multiple pings all over the place NEVER happened here before.


Getting stacked pings was sooooo common here that I actually had stop new requests turned on a long time ago. Hated grabbing trips without getting to see the map. Now, they don't even happen anymore.

We've got a 6 hour morning rush and then a 2 hour afternoon one. The waiting can be taxing on your soul in these winter months.


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## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> And what is you're source on this?


"Other factors may be concealed in the feedback data *111* such as a preference towards punctuality, *a preference (or lack thereof) towards newer vehicles*, an age range preference for the driver, and the like."

https://www.uberpeople.net/threads/...ns-age-discrimination-against-drivers.268761/


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> "Other factors may be concealed in the feedback data *111* such as a preference towards punctuality, *a preference (or lack thereof) towards newer vehicles*, an age range preference for the driver, and the like."
> 
> https://www.uberpeople.net/threads/...ns-age-discrimination-against-drivers.268761/


I didn't wonder the same about this. My buddy drives an older car and is a self proclaimed "old fart".

This isn't about my car (when I started two and a half years ago I drove at 2012), age, "high" rating, etc etc.

Its a driver shortage and how the algorithm seems to be handling that.


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Ted Fink said:


> The key to this is in your statement above. Fellow driver TEN MINUTES AWAY. This is all about location. If he's closer to the rider who's requesting a "good" trip than you are, he's going to get it. You are in a small market so I'm assuming there isn't a lot of volume. So you're going to have runs of bad luck. And hopefully also runs of good luck. It's just like real estate, when waiting for pings... LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. If you're having a run of bad luck, randomize your location. Try things. Experiment.
> 
> 
> I'm intrigued about this. Please expand on it. You really think the AI is dialed in down to the individual driver level?


Watch _the social network _for best understanding. Google's, Facebook etc etc AI learns what motivates each individual out of hundreds of millions. Uber's would be a walk in the park in comparison.


----------



## Guido-TheKillerPimp (Jan 4, 2021)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> "Other factors may be concealed in the feedback data *111* such as a preference towards punctuality, *a preference (or lack thereof) towards newer vehicles*, an age range preference for the driver, and the like."
> 
> https://www.uberpeople.net/threads/...ns-age-discrimination-against-drivers.268761/


Interesting!


----------



## Driving With A Purpose (Jul 28, 2020)

Seamus said:


> You know a lot more about AI than I do, but after watching the documentary "The Social Network" I understand much more than I did. I believe just like Google the Uber AI learns each one of us individually and treats each individually.


I agree with this reasoning and because of that I try intentionally to be hard for the AI to figure out. I've purposely worked perhaps every hour of the day (or very close to it).

Also, I've started taking gigs from my house as well as up to about 30 miles away. Don't worry about my wasting gas to drive that 30 miles. If is when I'm done with an Amazon shift and am far from home that I turn on the Eats app to work my way home as productively as possible.

I do have my limits, however. I almost always work the dinner shift on Sundays as it seems to be easier to make money then.


----------



## Hellzbelz (Jun 4, 2020)

Benjamin M said:


> I didn't wonder the same about this. My buddy drives an older car and is a self proclaimed "old fart".
> 
> This isn't about my car (when I started two and a half years ago I drove at 2012), age, "high" rating, etc etc.
> 
> Its a driver shortage and how the algorithm seems to be handling that.


I'm not THAT effing old.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Hellzbelz said:


> I'm not THAT effing old.


You keep calling yourself old, not me! &#128514;


----------



## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Driving With A Purpose said:


> I try intentionally to be hard for the AI to figure out.


I do the same.


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

Tnasty said:


> These companies are run by complete slimbags, that think they hold all the cards.


guess I'm a bit jaded.lol


----------



## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

Guido-TheKillerPimp said:


> Interesting!


Yeah. I don't know if it's true or not. But that's kind of the whole point. It's a "black box" algorithm and no one outside Uber's programming team really knows what's in it.


----------



## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> Yeah. I don't know if it's true or not. But that's kind of the whole point. It's a "black box" algorithm and no one outside Uber's programming team really knows what's in it.


Don't worry, Guido will make sure that nobody attempts to find anything out. After all, none of us are scientists so we can't talk to each other about what works or what happens to us when we drive.

According to him.


----------



## 208476 (Nov 15, 2020)

Benjamin M said:


> So, during the first and second waves of the pandemic, I tried my best on X.
> 
> I went from somewhere around a 4.94 rating (that began to fall before the shit really hit the fan, low quality pax) 90%+ AR, and Diamond status, to - 58% AR, 7% CR, and stuck at 4.88 (I'm sure I have been rated, however the numbers haven't budged).
> 
> ...


I am at 4.97 after 5 years and 5k rides and shocked with the aholes I drive in Naples Florida, especially with my moods I get into when I see what I made..........


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

franksoprano said:


> I am at 4.97 after 5 years and 5k rides and shocked with the aholes I drive in Naples Florida, especially with my moods I get into when I see what I made..........


Meaning you're also dealing with similar issues?


----------



## 208476 (Nov 15, 2020)

Benjamin M said:


> Meaning you're also dealing with similar issues?


Oh yes...........................

I am a lot older than you also, but with back issues and attitude issues there aint much else for me, I was always afraid of the ratings these ass jockeys could give me so usually kept my mouth shut when angry, even though you got that smiley face you don't take no shit, I like that, I have seen it with past posts....................


----------



## Boca Ratman (Jun 6, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> When a fellow driver about ten minutes away goes online and his experience is vastly different every day, that's suspect.


People lie. Especially when it comes to their success in business/finances. 
The only thing people lie about more is their sex lives.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Boca Ratman said:


> People lie. Especially when it comes to their success in business/finances.
> The only thing people lie about more is their sex lives.


He's not lying


----------



## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> He's not lying


So his sex life IS amazing?!?!


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

somedriverguy said:


> So his sex life IS amazing?!?!


He's on this thread, I'll leave that answer up to him &#128514;


----------



## Clothahump (Mar 31, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> As someone who has written lots of code, I can say with some certainty that the algorithm hates me. &#128514;


It hates everybody.


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

When you control all the information, its allot easier to steal and lie!


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Tnasty said:


> When you control all the information, its allot easier to steal and lie!


Do what? Meaning my friend? @Hellzbelz does not strike me as a liar, nor would he have any reason to do so. And I know him better than I know you. 

Simply two drivers comparing activities in our market.


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Do what? Meaning my friend? @Hellzbelz does not strike me as a liar, nor would he have any reason to do so. And I know him better than I know you. :smiles:
> 
> Simply two drivers comparing activities in our market.


I wasn't aware you guys are the code writers for uber.lol


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Tnasty said:


> I wasn't aware you guys are the code writers for uber.lol


Yeah I'm just not following you. Again, we just compared our experiences doing X.


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

When uber has an algorithm that only those at uber can see,it facilitates easy theft.


----------



## MyJessicaLS430 (May 29, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> So, my first REALLY profitable day in a while - around $290, including the $80 quest I was chasing (30 trips). Eats for the lunch rush (fairly decent tips), the last trips on X.
> 
> 205 miles (absolutely unheard of milage before), 15 trips, 6 hours and 18 online minutes. Three 30+ minute trips, one at the airport 13 minutes away with a $12 surge.
> 
> ...


To be fair, nobody can say for sure that surge is solely determined by driver availability or ride demand. However, I am confident that a severe driver depletion contributes to non-stop bombardment of pings in which we may, or may not receive a portion of the surcharge. Approximately the same time last year, we had a stayhome order in Houston. While it is not difficult to comprehend a huge decrease in ride demand, there was also a corresponding reduction in the number of drivers. Some say that those "cars" you see on passenger app are "ghost cars" but the pandemic has led me to think otherwise. What I saw on the passenger app was that the nearest car from my location was literally at the other side of the town. Consistent with the observation, the app often indicates "long wait" or "no drivers available", particularly in the evenings. There must be some people going somewhere, correct?

How did these companies respond? Uber charged people the normal fare in spite of a lack of driver supply. As for Lyft, a 2 mile ride could cost as high as $30. Surge remained non-existent for a few months since the end of March but Lyft occasionally threw $5 PPZs (that means about $10 according to my experience, if you can wait to score the maximum bonus).

Each time when there are newer versions of the app, things simply get worse. I remember the first information you notice in a ping is the passenger's rating. From your screenshot, it is kind of small. I can only imagine how hard it is to screen pings when you are on the highway. On the other side, looks like they have added the actual distance. Back then I was only provided the estimated time to pick up, which is often under-estimated. Anyway, nice sharing! Btw, you need to choose a reason for declining a ping now??


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

Back in the day Taxi meters were sealed, and it was cut and dry. Now uber can charge you based on your neighborhood or how much money they think you have.Id love for them to submit ride info for a third party to inspect but you know they would cook the books.


----------



## PukersAreAlwaysYourFault (Mar 25, 2021)

Benjamin M said:


> As someone who has written lots of code,


You would make a better living writing code for someone than this.


----------



## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

PukersAreAlwaysYourFault said:


> You would make a better living writing code for someone than this.


Sometimes being a code monkey can suck worse though. Everybody needs an out sometimes.


----------



## SCdave (Jun 27, 2014)

Benjamin M said:


> So, during the first and second waves of the pandemic, I tried my best on X.
> 
> I went from somewhere around a 4.94 rating (that began to fall before the shit really hit the fan, low quality pax) 90%+ AR, and Diamond status, to - 58% AR, 7% CR, and stuck at 4.88 (I'm sure I have been rated, however the numbers haven't budged).
> 
> ...


Your thread title reads like the first sentence from a dystopian novel.

[HEADING=2]_I think the algorithm remembers me.. and it hates me. _[/HEADING]

Yup, that's all I got.


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

Just took someone on a 2.3 mile ride and it was 12.00 for her, $6.12 for me.This is in Massachusetts and I cant believe they think that's ok.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Tnasty said:


> Just took someone on a 2.3 mile ride and it was 12.00 for her, $6.12 for me.This is in Massachusetts and I cant believe they think that's ok.


Had one like that last week, except it was $16 for less than two miles.


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Had one like that last week, except it was $16 for less than two miles.


I stopped looking, but no wonder they hate us.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

PukersAreAlwaysYourFault said:


> You would make a better living writing code for someone than this.


Actually, trying to make it as a small business owner (I don't like working for a boss), I'm earning way more driving. There are many factors to that, namely trying to make it work in a rural setting.

But I'm usually happy driving and my earnings in 2018 were not bad at all.


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> The demand here is ENORMOUS, the problem is that nobody is driving.


I have noticed that, too. Virtually all of my passengers are screaming about the long wait times, and the inability to find drivers consistently. One of my passengers ended up paying $80 for a cab ride so they wouldn't lose their job due to transportation issues. This has to be a system-wide phenomenon for the rideshare companies. I've been hearing about it from passengers who were recently travelling in different markets, and used Uber/Lyft there as well.

I've really tightened up the radius from which I'll accept a pick-up request. There are so many people needing rides, and with gas at $3 per gallon, there's no reason for charity these days. In pre-pandemic times, I was less likely to reject pings when they occurred in off-peak hours.

Today, there's no such thing as an off-peak hour.


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

wallae said:


> Driver of people
> Under 10% acceptance
> (Great record with the few I take)
> 4.99
> ...


Congrats on the acceptance rate.... could be lower but you're on the rug
Right path


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> Congrats on the acceptance rate.... could be lower but you're on the rug
> Right path


If I had an AR that low, especially right now in my market, I'd have no money


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> If I had an AR that low, especially right now in my market, I'd have no money


What market


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> What market


Richmond Virginia. Small market, the "busy" places are no longer viable. It's a toss up.

Prior to the pandemic, still, an AR that low would likely mean no trips period.


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> Congrats on the acceptance rate.... could be lower but you're on the rug
> Right path


Thanks!
And I'm proud to say that since then I've cut that in half


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

I don't really care what my acceptance rate is. As long as my dollars-per-mile looks good, I could have a 100% AR not care one bit. The AR% is a meaningless stat to me. How far am I driving to pick somebody up? That's what I care about. The only people who care about acceptance rates are those suckers who crave Uber Pro Gold/Diamond status, or trolls who like talking about how many rides they reject every day because they hate Uber.


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

wallae said:


> Thanks!
> And I'm proud to say that since then I've cut tha


Mine used to sit around 3%


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> Mine used to sit around 3%


Trying to understand rates like that. Were you getting steady back to back pings every day?

What was your reason for declining so many, especially if you did not have trip duration to know if it would be a profitable trip?

I know you are a LEO so this is a side job, as it should be. But for those of us (arguably stupidly) doing this FT, those numbers mean no income.


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Trying to understand rates like that. Were you getting steady back to back pings every day?
> 
> What was your reason for declining so many, especially if you did not have trip duration to know if it would be a profitable trip?
> 
> I know you are a LEO so this is a side job, as it should be. But for those of us (arguably stupidly) doing this FT, those numbers mean no income.


I had a 6 mile trip today that took 21 minutes would have been 4 bucks 
And then I would've had to go back in that traffic
Thank god for 8 surge 
It's all I can take traffic is so bad here

The other day I had the same trip it was even worse 36 minutes 
HTF can you do those at 8 cents a minute


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

wallae said:


> I had a 6 mile trip today that took 21 minutes would have been 4 bucks
> And then I would've had to go back in that traffic
> Thank god for 8 surge
> It's all I can take traffic is so bad here
> ...


I wish I had to worry about traffic. Instead, it's the endless dead miles - point of the thread

At least you were paid for those minutes, rather than not being paid for 10+ minutes to get your pax.


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> I wish I had to worry about traffic. Instead, it's the endless dead miles - point of the thread


As I said I always have dead miles 
And by the way when you're sitting in bumper to bumper traffic I think your chance of an accident goes up
Risk vs reward of 12 an hour


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

wallae said:


> As I said I always have dead miles
> And by the way when you're sitting in bumper to bumper traffic I think your chance of an accident goes up
> Risk vs reward of 12 an hour


Agreed concerning traffic. It's still very light here. I'm averaging 16-20+



rkozy said:


> I don't really care what my acceptance rate is. As long as my dollars-per-mile looks good, I could have a 100% AR not care one bit. The AR% is a meaningless stat to me. How far am I driving to pick somebody up? That's what I care about. The only people who care about acceptance rates are those suckers who crave Uber Pro Gold/Diamond status, or trolls who like talking about how many rides they reject every day because they hate Uber.


The ONLY reason I care about my AR is trip duration, which is an 85% requirement. And that would be extremely helpful right now, with ridiculous dead miles.


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> Trying to understand rates like that. Were you getting steady back to back pings every day?
> 
> What was your reason for declining so many, especially if you did not have trip duration to know if it would be a profitable trip?
> 
> I know you are a LEO so this is a side job, as it should be. But for those of us (arguably stupidly) doing this FT, those numbers mean no income.


Was and
No surge no drive


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> Was and
> No surge no drive


Gotcha. Here, surges have always been minimal and sporadic. Based on your criteria, one basically would not drive - except maybe the late night scene, which isn't what I do.


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> Gotcha. Here, surges have always been minimal and sporadic. Based on your criteria, one basically would not drive - except maybe the late night scene, which isn't what I do.


I used to do late nights and 10pm airport surge....


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> I used to do late nights and 10pm airport surge....


RIC used to be packed and I never saw a surge there. But I did get one yesterday at a $12 surge, about 14 minutes away, because the queue was empty.

When I tried the airport queue, every trip was back to the city - usually about $10, after an hour or more waiting.

(pre-pandemic)


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> RIC used to be packed and I never saw a surge there. But I did get one yesterday at a $12 surge, about 14 minutes away, because the queue was empty.
> 
> When I tried the airport queue, every trip was back to the city - usually about $10, after an hour or more waiting.
> 
> (pre-pandemic)


I used to live 7 minutes from the airport


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Agreed concerning traffic. It's still very light here. I'm averaging 16-20+
> 
> 
> The ONLY reason I care about my AR is trip duration, which is an 85% requirement. And that would be extremely helpful right now, with ridiculous dead miles.


Everywhere is different
If I took 85% of my pings I would be making six bucks an hour


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

wallae said:


> Everywhere is different
> If I took 85% of my pings I would be making six bucks an hour


But you have no way of knowing that without trip duration

For example - recently, I have driven 14+ minutes only to get a 2 mile trip. Yesterday, similar pings - chasing a quest, I just took them. Three of them were over 20 miles.


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> But you have no way of knowing that without trip duration
> 
> For example - recently, I have driven 14+ minutes only to get a 2 mile trip. Yesterday, similar pings - chasing a quest, I just took them. Three of them were over 20 miles.


I know from doing it. I know the average ride 3.89
I know I do max 3 rides an hour
I know if we do get a long ride you return empty taking away any benefits

Here without surge it's a TOTAL waste of time


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> But you have no way of knowing that without trip duration
> 
> For example - recently, I have driven 14+ minutes only to get a 2 mile trip. Yesterday, similar pings - chasing a quest, I just took them. Three of them were over 20 miles.


The average will never work out in your benefit


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

wallae said:


> I know from doing it. I know the average ride 3.89
> I know I do max 3 rides an hour
> I know if we do get a long ride you return empty taking away any benefits
> 
> Here without surge it's a TOTAL waste of time


See above. Here, surges have always been sporadic and generally not very high.



Juggalo9er said:


> The average will never work out in your benefit


I made about $300 yesterday mixing Eats with pax. I just miss trip duration. And that was an enormous amount of miles.


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> I made about $300 yesterday mixing Eats with pax. I just miss trip duration. And that was an enormous amount of miles.


Geez
One of those Jeffrey Dahmer type of guys?


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

wallae said:


> Geez
> One of those Jeffrey Dahmer type of guys?


That's funny right there &#128514;


----------



## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

His mother said: you know I don’t like your friends
He said then just eat the vegetables


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> But you have no way of knowing that without trip duration
> 
> For example - recently, I have driven 14+ minutes only to get a 2 mile trip. Yesterday, similar pings - chasing a quest, I just took them. Three of them were over 20 miles.


Every door does something.


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> See above. Here, surges have always been sporadic and generally not very high.
> 
> 
> I made about $300 yesterday mixing Eats with pax. I just miss trip duration. And that was an enormous amount of miles.


Miles will kill you


----------



## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

Juggalo9er said:


> Miles will kill you


Always sucked for me. I was / am? a solid operator, but I had average 68 dead miles. Deadly for profit margin


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Amos69 said:


> Always sucked for me. I was / am? a solid operator, but I had average 68 dead miles. Deadly for profit margin


I recall taking someone from Indianapolis Airport to the university of Illinois... some 108 miles.... never ever ever do it again


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> Miles will kill you


And that's the whole point of the thread.

Driver shortage is making me drive WAY more miles than ever before. My only pings are far away. Some days, that's profitable - like yesterday.

At the same time, Eats has dipped low. Why? Because people want to go back to their favorite restaurants, bars, and breweries. The problem? No drivers.

So, they're either driving drunk, taking the bus, calling a cab (taxis are more plentiful here than during my experience in the city), or whatever.


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

I think fuber or gryft will sellout to DIDI soon, and they don't care about what mess they leave.


----------



## somedriverguy (Sep 6, 2016)

Benjamin M said:


> Richmond Virginia. Small market, the "busy" places are no longer viable. It's a toss up.
> 
> Prior to the pandemic, still, an AR that low would likely mean no trips period.


When you deny trips, UBER thinks that sending it back tonyou 6 pr 7 times is funny. And counts each of those denials against you seperately. So, he's actually only turning down about half his trips, its just that he has to turn each of the trips he turns down multiple tumes, so it makes the number look more dismal.


----------



## Tnasty (Mar 23, 2016)

I called critical support and told them I wanted to report a robbery.I told them they are ripping drivers off and charging a pax 12$ for a 2.3 mile ride was wrong.Noone cares but I had fun.


----------



## 208476 (Nov 15, 2020)

Benjamin M said:


> He's not lying





PukersAreAlwaysYourFault said:


> You would make a better living writing code for someone than this.


I have also worked as a programmer in my life, started as a operator running reports and other things and worked as a business application programmer in the 80's and early 90's, I have a associates in computer science, one of the best jobs I ever had, wish I never strayed away from it, problem I had was the system I busted my ass learning basically faded out running on a mini system that supported up to 120 terminals, when I think about it I had 2 hard drives each 160 megs apiece and only used one of them to run our system but the other drive was helpful with experimenting on programs I would write, long time ago.

This meant going back to school which I couldn't afford and no one would hire me even though I would hear you have great experience but not on our system and were not interested in training me, pretty much doing many things in a small DP department. I really like it and started getting pretty good at it.

Only thing it does for me these days is I do most all upgrades on computer and I type pretty well. It is a great job in the right place.


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> That's very interesting.
> 
> We're both seeing changes in our market. Starting a trip and then immediately being bombarded with multiple pings all over the place NEVER happened here before.
> 
> ...


Be very careful about the time and distance estimate On a stacked ping request. The time to pick up is the time from drop off to your arrival at the stacked requestor. The miles on the other hand, are the total miles from where you currently are all the way to the stacked pick up location.

keep this in mind and you will start excepting some of the stacked pings

my best advice is to look at the drop off and pick up pins and estimate time and distance yourself


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Tnasty said:


> I called critical support and told them I wanted to report a robbery.I told them they are ripping drivers off and charging a pax 12$ for a 2.3 mile ride was wrong.Noone cares but I had fun.


It is robbery


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> The ONLY reason I care about my AR is trip duration, which is an 85% requirement. And that would be extremely helpful right now, with ridiculous dead miles.


The best way I combat ridiculous dead miles is by not accepting pings that are far away. On most days, that means rejecting 50-60% of incoming pings. The Uber Pro platform tricks you into accepting crap you shouldn't accept, because you need that 85% rating to keep getting their useless information.

I tried Uber Pro for a month, and my dead miles went sky high during that period. When 60% of the rides Uber gives you are crap, it's best just to walk away from their pathetic attempt at driver manipulation.


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

rkozy said:


> The best way I combat ridiculous dead miles is by not accepting pings that are far away. On most days, that means rejecting 50-60% of incoming pings. The Uber Pro platform tricks you into accepting crap you shouldn't accept, because you need that 85% rating to keep getting their useless information.
> 
> I tried Uber Pro for a month, and my dead miles went sky high during that period. When 60% of the rides Uber gives you are crap, it's best just to walk away from their pathetic attempt at driver manipulation.


It's all I am getting. Less than ten minutes / miles away is exceptionally rare.

I am Blue on Pro (would be Diamond if not for my AR). I used many Diamond benefits. And having trip duration is far from useless - since I'd know if one of these pings may result in a $30+ trip or $5, as again it's all I get.


----------



## Juggalo9er (Dec 7, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> It's all I am getting. Less than ten minutes / miles away is exceptionally rare.
> 
> I am Blue on Pro (would be Diamond if not for my AR). I used many Diamond benefits. And having trip duration is far from useless - since I'd know if one of these pings may result in a $30+ trip or $5, as again it's all I get.


It is useless.... see acceptance rate


----------



## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Juggalo9er said:


> It is useless.... see acceptance rate


Trip duration was a life saver for me, my earnings spiked


----------



## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> It's all I am getting. Less than ten minutes / miles away is exceptionally rare.


Really? I only did eight rides today, and several of the pings were within a mile of my drop-off location. I did have one that was four miles away, but in city traffic, it took me eight minutes. When I reject a ping (about 50% of incoming pings are rejected) I have another ping within 30 seconds, and it's typically under ten minutes or four miles. Lots of riders in my market with few drivers.

So, you must be accepting a ton of crap pings just to keep your AR at 85% to keep that info coming in.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

rkozy said:


> Really? I only did eight rides today, and several of the pings were within a mile of my drop-off location. I did have one that was four miles away, but in city traffic, it took me eight minutes. When I reject a ping (about 50% of incoming pings are rejected) I have another ping within 30 seconds, and it's typically under ten minutes or four miles. Lots of riders in my market with few drivers.
> 
> So, you must be accepting a ton of crap pings just to keep your AR at 85% to keep that info coming in.


Really.

I'll take screenshots of pings tomorrow. Every single ping, with the rare exception, is far away. Even if I go online smack dab in the middle of downtown and there is a surge.

Barely any drivers (now including Eats, for some reason) in a small market.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> I'll take screenshots of pings tomorrow. Every single ping, with the rare exception, is far away. Even if I go online smack dab in the middle of downtown and there is a surge.


You needn't do that. I believe you. Markets are all different animals. That must suck, though.

Is it possible the Uber algorithm "learns" what each driver will take and not take? If you are predisposed to accepting crap pings, would the algorithm put you at the top of the list for rides that need urgent attention, but there are no drivers nearby? I used to get crap pings all the time, and still do, but I also get short pick-up distance pings on a fairly regular basis, from both Lyft and Uber.

Lately, I've really tightened up my radius for pick-up locations. The only exception is airport trips. I'll still crawl through broken glass for one of those.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

rkozy said:


> You needn't do that. I believe you. Markets are all different animals. That must suck, though.
> 
> Is it possible the Uber algorithm "learns" what each driver will take and not take? If you are predisposed to accepting crap pings, would the algorithm put you at the top of the list for rides that need urgent attention, but there are no drivers nearby? I used to get crap pings all the time, and still do, but I also get short pick-up distance pings on a fairly regular basis, from both Lyft and Uber.
> 
> Lately, I've really tightened up my radius for pick-up locations. The only exception is airport trips. I'll still crawl through broken glass for one of those.


Agreed. I was one of maybe ten (or so it seemed) drivers active during the peak of the pandemic, before I began doing Eats. I accepted awful pings, with trip duration for maybe two days, and I think the algorithm remembers me and hates me (title).

The driver shortage doesn't help and I'm the driver that used to take shit pings. And, at that time, pings were nonexistent.

Now, enormous demand and limited drivers. Including the airport.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Agreed. I was one of maybe ten (or so it seemed) drivers active during the peak of the pandemic, before I began doing Eats. I accepted awful pings, with trip duration for maybe two days, and I think the algorithm remembers me and hates me (title).


Have you considered holding out for closer pings? I realize that strategy can sometimes backfire. (i.e. you wind up sitting for a long time with no pings, then out of desperation, finally accept one that was even crappier than the previous ping you rejected 30 minutes ago.)

However, if your market has a shortage of drivers and an abundance of riders, as mine does, eventually Uber will have to start giving you some better rides to get the merchandise moving again. Just a suggestion. I'm not claiming to know how the algorithm might behave in your circumstance. But, it does seem that you're being utilized in a way which suggests Uber may have tapped into your established patterns.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

rkozy said:


> Have you considered holding out for closer pings? I realize that strategy can sometimes backfire. (i.e. you wind up sitting for a long time with no pings, then out of desperation, finally accept one that was even crappier than the previous ping you rejected 30 minutes ago.)
> 
> However, if your market has a shortage of drivers and an abundance of riders, as mine does, eventually Uber will have to start giving you some better rides to get the merchandise moving again. Just a suggestion. I'm not claiming to know how the algorithm might behave in your circumstance. But, it does seem that you're being utilized in a way which suggests Uber may have tapped into your established patterns.


As I've outlined in this thread and "PLEASE DRIVE" -


Far away
Further away, bad rating 
Really far away and "how are they still on the platform" rating. 
Signed out of the app
Repeat


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## 208476 (Nov 15, 2020)

Benjamin M said:


> As I've outlined in this thread and "PLEASE DRIVE" -
> 
> 
> Far away
> ...


I am reading all over the place U/L/DD struggling to meet demand, if the money was good this wouldn't be a problem, maybe they will learn and I doubt it. Many are opting for the pua and I don't blame them, Feds get these leaches................


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Today is the first day since I started again that it's dead


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Today is the first day since I started again that it's dead


my head hurts: I'm way busy with crappy pings that are all far away.
It's dead today with no pings at any distance.

Spin, spin, fall down.

Reset.

Start process over.

It's Wednesday.

:roflmao:


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

SHalester said:


> my head hurts: I'm way busy with crappy pings that are all far away.
> It's dead today with no pings at any distance.
> 
> Spin, spin, fall down.
> ...


It picked up. Mix between Uber and Lyft, $90ish in five hours and 112 or so miles. Honestly, most of the pings were decent today.

I did pick up a 4.69* pax in an area that told me he was a traveler / executive, indeed that was the case. NYC native.

Great conversation, he asked if it's normal to wait here for 20+ minutes (as he did), based on the current NYC market where it's still about a four minute wait (and was here previously).

"No. We have a major shortage of drivers. I'll get my next request in two minutes or so and it will be far away" - almost exactly two minutes to the second, two pings - 13 and 11, I took the latter.

"Well, at least it's busy and I'm sure you're killing it!"

Explained dead miles. He was bummed. And still didn't tip &#128514;


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## Amos69 (May 17, 2019)

$90/ 5 hours / 112 miles


Those are really bad numbers

If you drive an old Prius.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Amos69 said:


> $90/ 5 hours / 112 miles


I'd be ok with those, if the hours were <= 3.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Amos69 said:


> $90/ 5 hours / 112 miles
> 
> Those are really bad numbers
> 
> If you drive an old Prius.


18 Civic EX 2 liter 4 cylinder, "Gloria" as my wife named her.

Gloria gets close to 45 mpg pure interstate, 26 or so primarily city, and around 32 mixed. But she has almost 70k on the odometer, about 30k last year and few months alone.

Days like yesterday and today (roughly the same), if I was anywhere near those miles it was because I accepted a 45+ minute trip to DC or something, in addition to a $20ish tip for doing so.

Talked with the Eats / X driver that delivered my dinner (Ryan), he's had the same frustrations. And he, my driver buddy, and myself have noticed - Eats demand is down considerably while the customer app says that no drivers are available, even when drivers are indeed online in the area.

Ryan has been on the platform for a little over a year, so he had a taste of X before the shit really hit the fan. He seemed very reluctant to return to pax.

Talking with pax more and more, it's extremely evident that the main issue is a shortage of drivers.

Yesterday, a visitor from NYC, wondering why on earth he had to wait for over half an hour for me to pick him up in the city - whereas in NYC, the wait is about three to five minutes, as it was here.

Today, boyfriend and girlfriend going out to celebrate his birthday. Same thing. "Sir, I have a question.. Uber used to be so popular, why is it taking so long now?"

I've also been asked if I have a business card so a pax could call me later and "when a good time to get an Uber" would be after a pax waited at least twenty minutes and paid $16 for a two mile trip.

Shots going in arms. Demand is higher that it has been in a year. Yet the lack of ants is driving Gloria into the ground and messing with my sanity.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Demand is higher that it has been in a year. Yet the lack of ants is driving Gloria into the ground and messing with my sanity.


Regardless of how well Gloria gets in gas mileage, the wear and tear will eventually cause her to die a premature death.

Many drivers haven't returned since they may have realized Uber isn't sustainable in the long run, if it's done full-time. Yes some drivers in large metropolitan areas, like Chicago, may make solid money but they also face more dangers on the road and with crazy pax.

Focus on you, not your pax or others drivers. What do you want to do as a long term career? If you truly like driving, look into getting your CDL. Why settle for less if you have choices?

When more drivers return, then they'll be more *****ing and moaning about how there aren't enough rides and Uber just lowered pay again.

Four things are inevitable: change, death, taxes and Uber lowering pay.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Invisible said:


> Regardless of how well Gloria gets in gas mileage, the wear and tear will eventually cause her to die a premature death.
> 
> Many drivers haven't returned since they may have realized Uber isn't sustainable in the long run, if it's done full-time. Yes some drivers in large metropolitan areas, like Chicago, may make solid money but they also face more dangers on the road and with crazy pax.
> 
> ...


Speaking with a few drivers here and knowing the market very well, it's mainly due to fear of the virus.

Today was very profitable and, for the first time, I saw cars all over with RS emblems and pax in the back seat. My milage was decreased substantially and I earned around $30 more than yesterday in the same number of hours.

Long term plan? I have none. High stress job for ten years as a paramedic, then many years trying to make it as a small business owner.

Ups and downs, the biggest "down" being a client on retainer promising $100k+, after about a $40k project, shutting down abruptly and leaving me with lots of tax debt.

Around two months later, depressed and without work, my wife landed her first career - taking us two hours away from our house to the big city.

I had this app on my phone and I decided to see if I could make any money. And I did, about the same amount as that retainer, which was around what I made as a paramedic.

Consistent every day, week, and month. No praying that my patient would survive - even after arriving at the ER (or later, doing Advanced Life Support transport, the ICU). No boss. No meetings. No endless hours in front of the computer writing code. No haggling over contracts.

Being in an apartment has sucked, as has the major change of rural living to urban.

My stress relief was taking care of our house, mainly lawn care and such. Fortunately, we are working on buying a house.

After that, maybe I will explore more options. But I have enjoyed rideshare due to the lack of stress most days. Then the pandemic hit.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Speaking with a few drivers here and knowing the market very well, it's mainly due to fear of the virus.
> 
> Today was very profitable and, for the first time, I saw cars all over with RS emblems and pax in the back seat. My milage was decreased substantially and I earned around $30 more than yesterday in the same number of hours.
> 
> ...


Good you had a better day. I understand things were challenging for you for awhile. So it's good things have changed.

While the pandemic altered or eliminated so many industries, it's crucial to adjust to the changes. You don't have to return to your previous careers. But you have more options than what you may realize.

With knowledge of medical terminology, you could go to school p/t for Physical Therapy Assistant. With just an Associates, average salary of $60,000, and it's one of the fastest growing careers. Or you could take classes to be an Information Security Analyst, also one of fastest growing with an average salary of $103,000. Or find a new industry.

Just because something worked before doesn't mean it always will. Life is fluid and is ever-changing. I mean no disrespect just trying to point out you have choices.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Invisible said:


> Good you had a better day. I understand things were challenging for you for awhile. So it's good things have changed.
> 
> While the pandemic altered or eliminated so many industries, it's crucial to adjust to the changes. You don't have to return to your previous careers. But you have more options than what you may realize.
> 
> ...


Absolutely agreed, life is ever-changing and fluid.

Ten years in the field (and a little over two of training), EMS. About four years (not including coding in the back of my ambulance between runs for a year or so before making that transition) as small business owner and full-stack web developer.

RS has accounted for two and a half, vs 10+ and roughly 5 years in other endeavors. I was hit first with the only profitable prospect as a business owner going south (ironically, weeks after I was interviewed on the radio touting my client) and then an abrupt move.

This chapter of my life? Driving rideshare. And the pandemic has sucked royally for that, and for my wife - now stuck in our apartment, depressed from the lack of social interaction.

2.5 years vs past careers, freedom, overall less stress.. I'll take it.

Here's hoping that we find ourselves in a better area in 2022 (lease expires Christmas Eve), with a home to watch over. :smiles:


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Absolutely agreed, life is ever-changing and fluid.
> 
> Ten years in the field (and a little over two of training), EMS. About four years (not including coding in the back of my ambulance between runs for a year or so before making that transition) as small business owner and full-stack web developer.
> 
> ...


Good luck with getting your home in early winter.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

Invisible said:


> Good luck with getting your home in early winter.


Is that a joke? &#128514;

Hey, lease terms and all. I can't predict the future. We're getting money from family for a down payment (this was their idea, not ours) - maybe we can find a way to break lease.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Great conversation, he asked if it's normal to wait here for 20+ minutes (as he did), based on the current NYC market where it's still about a four minute wait (and was here previously).


My passengers on Uber and Lyft say it's typically an hour before they can get anyone, and sometimes, they never get anyone. I've heard stories of people calling into work to tell their boss there are no Ubers available. One regular of mine said she paid $80 for a cab ride into work. She works at a gas station, in a state where the minimum wage is still $7.25 per hour. She might be making more than that per hour, but I can guarantee you an $80 cab ride isn't in the budget of somebody working at a convenience store.

There were wait time problems in my market before the pandemic hit, but not like they are now. Taxi cabs here are even worse. Most dispatch times start at two hours. The fares are incredibly ridiculous. Basically, if you don't have your own wheels here, and can't peddle a bicycle, it's very difficult to get around. Mass transit is a complete joke here as well.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Benjamin M said:


> Is that a joke? &#128514;
> 
> Hey, lease terms and all. I can't predict the future. We're getting money from family for a down payment (this was their idea, not ours) - maybe we can find a way to break lease.


Nope not s joke. I assumed you'd wait until your lease was about to end. Nice of your family to help. Rent is astronomically high so sometimes a house makes more sense.



rkozy said:


> My passengers on Uber and Lyft say it's typically an hour before they can get anyone, and sometimes, they never get anyone. I've heard stories of people calling into work to tell their boss there are no Ubers available. One regular of mine said she paid $80 for a cab ride into work. She works at a gas station, in a state where the minimum wage is still $7.25 per hour. She might be making more than that per hour, but I can guarantee you an $80 cab ride isn't in the budget of somebody working at a convenience store.
> 
> There were wait time problems in my market before the pandemic hit, but not like they are now. Taxi cabs here are even worse. Most dispatch times start at two hours. The fares are incredibly ridiculous. Basically, if you don't have your own wheels here, and can't peddle a bicycle, it's very difficult to get around. Mass transit is a complete joke here as well.


It's tough for those who rely on U/L to get to work. However, if U/L paid drivers better and treated them better, then they'd have more drivers.

Why does someone who works minimum wage, or just above it, feel they can even afford to take a taxi or U/L? So your pax paid $80 to get to work when she probably only makes $9 or$10/hr. Seems unrealistic since her net pay would be equal or less.

Before I got my first car at 20, I walked or biked miles to work. I never would've thought of taking a taxi to work. But then again my generation was more practical.


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## rkozy (Apr 5, 2019)

Invisible said:


> Why does someone who works minimum wage, or just above it, feel they can even afford to take a taxi or U/L? So your pax paid $80 to get to work when she probably only makes $9 or$10/hr. Seems unrealistic since her net pay would be equal or less.


You'll never get a paycheck (or unemployment) if you get fired for attendance issues. She told me she couldn't miss work, so she took a big loss that day on an $80 cab ride in the hopes she could find Ubers for future work days. I understand her logic. She has been with her company for a long time. You can't throw all of that away because Uber doesn't have its shit together.

Also, she lives quite a distance from work in a city that is not very walkable. Then, there's the weather here. We had frost yesterday morning. In February, it was -40 with the wind chill. People can't walk 8 miles in that and live.


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## iamthenewguy123 (Aug 24, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Tiny market. 10%, I wouldn't have any trips.
> 
> And, the more pings I let go, the worse they become.


If you're in a small market, this gig will probably never be profitable. But $68 for 110 miles is certainly not worth it, especially during covid. I suggest you do an experiment for the next 2 days. Don't accept any ride more than 5 minutes away, don't accept anyone less than 4.8, don't accept any scheduled rides, and never ever wait longer than 5 minutes. In your market you will likely gross the same or less, however your operating cost will decrease substantially and you will probably NET more money each day. At 68/110 your taxable net was about $8, but if you try this experiment you might see 60/75, making your actual profit over $20, and for less actual work. I never look at gross revenue, I only care about profit after operating costs.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

iamthenewguy123 said:


> But $68 for 110 miles is certainly not worth it


Gee, ya think?! &#129315;

Regarding the "experiment" suggestion - that won't work, as I have outlined in this thread. I would probably end up with a <10% AR and maybe $10. Because virtually every ping, no matter what, is nowhere close.

Why? Because our city's drivers (aka "ants") aren't on the road.

Demand is through the roof right now and I'm guessing there are maybe a dozen or less drivers out during the afternoon hours that I drive (most definitely not doing rides after dark right now).

Yesterday was great, more what I was accustomed to before the pandemic. About 70 miles and over $100 in a few hours. Why? Ants.

Today, more of the same issue, surprisingly. High mileage for a pick up, three out of seven pax asked me why it's so hard to get a ride - as did two yesterday.

It's a supply / demand issue. Huge demand, very low supply. A husband and wife agreed with that, trying to find rides in the heart of the city.

Richmond may be a small market but I earned great money in a few hours a day with minimal milage prior to the pandemic.

Oh, and @Diamondraider made an excellent point up there ^^. It's no longer about who is closer, it's about how long a pax has been waiting - in some markets, absolutely the case here.


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## iamthenewguy123 (Aug 24, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Gee, ya think?! &#129315;
> 
> Regarding the "experiment" suggestion - that won't work, as I have outlined in this thread. I would probably end up with a <10% AR and maybe $10. Because virtually every ping, no matter what, is nowhere close.
> 
> ...


I understand your point, but if you're in it for the money, AR is of absolutely no importance. You won't be deactivated for it, mines been in the single digits often and for long periods of time. It's cancellation rates that they care about. I've been doing Uber since 2016, and started doing it my own way in 2019. I just about cut my miles in half, averaging about $1.30/mile from couch to couch without surges, streaks or promos... Just regular fares and tips. Forgot to mention, I also refuse to pick up at any walmart or grocery store, and if I get within 5 miles of ASU I shut the app off until I get out of there.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Benjamin M said:


> And I enjoy this work immensely


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

iamthenewguy123 said:


> I understand your point, but if you're in it for the money, AR is of absolutely no importance. You won't be deactivated for it, mines been in the single digits often and for long periods of time. It's cancellation rates that they care about. I've been doing Uber since 2016, and started doing it my own way in 2019. I just about cut my miles in half, averaging about $1.30/mile from couch to couch without surges, streaks or promos... Just regular fares and tips. Forgot to mention, I also refuse to pick up at any walmart or grocery store, and if I get within 5 miles of ASU I shut the app off until I get out of there.


Mainly, I just would not have any trips, or I'd spend a massive amount of time waiting.

One cannot apply the same techniques as in the past right now. It's endless stacked pings, flooding in immediately after a trip is started, even if that passenger will be waiting for almost an hour. Little to no drivers on the road, it's no longer about who is closer to the pax.

And I only care about my AR because trip duration is extremely important here, especially with these pings. But I won't have that back anytime soon.

















This is what I am seeing day after day. Decline the first one, the second one is further away with a low rating, third one is usually AWFUL, get signed out (even in the middle of a trip), repeat.


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## iamthenewguy123 (Aug 24, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> Mainly, I just would not have any trips, or I'd spend a massive amount of time waiting.
> 
> One cannot apply the same techniques as in the past right now. It's endless stacked pings, flooding in immediately after a trip is started, even if that passenger will be waiting for almost an hour. Little to no drivers on the road, it's no longer about who is closer to the pax.
> 
> ...


I get it. I've held out for an hour or more. I don't go out to stay busy, or to earn revenue. I only go out to make a profit. Any time I see a ride request more than 5 minutes away I remind myself it's probably just going to be a minimum fare, which will be a net loss. I'd rather idle watching Netflix than work for free.


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## Benjamin M (Jul 17, 2018)

S


iamthenewguy123 said:


> If you're in a small market, this gig will probably never be profitable. But $68 for 110 miles is certainly not worth it, especially during covid. I suggest you do an experiment for the next 2 days. Don't accept any ride more than 5 minutes away, don't accept anyone less than 4.8, don't accept any scheduled rides, and never ever wait longer than 5 minutes. In your market you will likely gross the same or less, however your operating cost will decrease substantially and you will probably NET more money each day. At 68/110 your taxable net was about $8, but if you try this experiment you might see 60/75, making your actual profit over $20, and for less actual work. I never look at gross revenue, I only care about profit after operating costs.


So, tried to keep pickup times seven minutes or less today. Every single trip was minimum fare, dropped to about $14/hr. &#128514;

$154 with an $80 quest. 13 trips, 4 hours, still over a hundred miles - started taking longer pickups and they were more profitable, just more dead miles.


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## iamthenewguy123 (Aug 24, 2019)

Benjamin M said:


> S
> 
> So, tried to keep pickup times seven minutes or less today. Every single trip was minimum fare, dropped to about $14/hr. &#128514;
> 
> $154 with an $80 quest. 13 trips, 4 hours, still over a hundred miles - started taking longer pickups and they were more profitable, just more dead miles.


Ya, I'd never drive 7 minutes to pick someone up unless the app says it's a 45+ minute trip. 5 is the max, that suggests I'll drive no more than 2-3 miles to get them.


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