# If I drove part time for Uber and made 5 grand gross pay in 6 months.....



## WNYuber (Oct 5, 2019)

and I will only take the standard .58(or w/e it is this year) mile deduction, how much will I owe in taxes to NYS and the feds? Just assume I made no other money besides this....retired and not drawing pension/SS/401K....YET.
I'm not claiming all the other BS deductions like dead head miles, water, and that kinda stuff....I'm too lazy to figure it all out and since I made so little the difference would be minimal.
Thanks


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## Clint Torres (Sep 10, 2019)

Yes, but I wouldnt


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

WNYuber said:


> and I will only take the standard .58(or w/e it is this year) mile deduction, how much will I owe in taxes to NYS and the feds? Just assume I made no other money besides this....retired and not drawing pension/SS/401K....YET.
> I'm not claiming all the other BS deduction like dead head miles, water, and that kinda stuff....I'm too lazy to figure it all out and since I made so little the difference would be minimal.
> Thanks


You might owe some self employment tax on your net income if you have any net income. How many business miles did you drive?


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## WNYuber (Oct 5, 2019)

UberTaxPro said:


> You might owe some self employment tax on your net income if you have any net income. How many business miles did you drive?


I'm ashamed to say I don't know, is this information accessible to me thru Uber or do I have to wait till EOY.
Thanks


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

WNYuber said:


> and I will only take the standard .58(or w/e it is this year) mile deduction, how much will I owe in taxes to NYS and the feds? Just assume I made no other money besides this....retired and not drawing pension/SS/401K....YET.
> I'm not claiming all the other BS deductions like dead head miles, water, and that kinda stuff....I'm too lazy to figure it all out and since I made so little the difference would be minimal.
> Thanks


Single or joint return?


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## WNYuber (Oct 5, 2019)

percy_ardmore said:


> Single or joint return?


95% of Uber drivers are goblins and COMPLETELY undateable, with that said, i am indeed single


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

If you claim $5000 and claim 2000 business miles, you would owe Fed $543. I don't know about state. Give me a more accurate mileage claim, if you can. Could deduct some phone costs, like maybe 10% of your anticipated phone bill for 2019.


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

WNYuber said:


> and I will only take the standard .58(or w/e it is this year) mile deduction, how much will I owe in taxes to NYS and the feds? Just assume I made no other money besides this....retired and not drawing pension/SS/401K....YET.
> I'm not claiming all the other BS deductions like dead head miles, water, and that kinda stuff....I'm too lazy to figure it all out and since I made so little the difference would be minimal.
> Thanks


Add dead head miles. With EIC and the standard deduction, you shouldn't owe a penny.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

percy_ardmore said:


> If you claim $5000 and claim 2000 business miles, you would owe Fed $543. I don't know about state. Give me a more accurate mileage claim, if you can. Could deduct some phone costs, like maybe 10% of your anticipated phone bill for 2019.


Until his net income reaches $13,850 (standard deduction + $1650 for age 65+ ) he won't owe anything for federal. If he's not 65 yet the number is $12,200. Generally he'll pay self employment tax on 92.35% of his net income. The rate for S/E tax is 15.3%.


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

Correction: I mistakenly put in a SS# that started with 9, which is invalid. I changed it and you would get EIC, assuming you are under 65. How much EIC, depends on more accurate figures from you. Standard deduction has no effect, you will owe something if you report a net profit.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

WNYuber said:


> 95% of Uber drivers are goblins and COMPLETELY undateable, with that said, i am indeed single


Goblins can still be cute if they're nice. I've dated men who were average, but once I got to know them better, some became more attractive to me.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

percy_ardmore said:


> Could deduct some phone costs, like maybe 10% of your anticipated phone bill for 2019.


I think you meant 95%* of your anticipated phone bill.


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

Mkang14 said:


> I think you meant 95%* of your anticipated phone bill.


I think he can decide that.


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## Mkang14 (Jun 29, 2019)

percy_ardmore said:


> I think he can decide that.


I think he would choose 95%. Just this gut feeling &#129300;


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

After reading this thread thoroughly twice, the clearest conclusion I have come to is: Don't listen to Percy . . . like, at all.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

percy_ardmore said:


> Correction: I mistakenly put in a SS# that started with 9, which is invalid. I changed it and you would get EIC, assuming you are under 65. How much EIC, depends on more accurate figures from you. Standard deduction has no effect, you will owe something if you report a net profit.


With EIC he might even get a refund! Standard deduction only affects income taxes, not S/E taxes.


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

UberTaxPro said:


> With EIC he might even get a refund! Standard deduction only affects income taxes, not S/E taxes.


I'm trying to remember if turbotax automatically gave me both. Probably not.


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

WNYuber said:


> I'm not claiming all the other BS deductions like dead head miles, water, and that kinda stuff....I'm too lazy to figure it all out


There is a way to estimate Dead miles easily. If you notice, we made approximately $100 after driving 100 miles ( dead miles + Uber miles ). 
That means we made approximately $1 for every single miles. You can just estimate total miles driven by looking at your total Uber earning. Dead miles should be included in your deduction since you need to save some money to fix your car (changing tires and stuffs.)


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

Let's say you like to hang out at a Starbucks in middle of town, call it your base, Point A. Get a request, drive to pax at Point B, take them to Point C, then dead miles back to your base, Point A. Uber is not going to keep track of that leg from C to A after drop off but I would definitely include this as deductible miles and they will add up.


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## WNYuber (Oct 5, 2019)

percy_ardmore said:


> Let's say you like to hang out at a Starbucks in middle of town, call it your base, Point A. Get a request, drive to pax at Point B, take them to Point C, then dead miles back to your base, Point A. Uber is not going to keep track of that leg from C to A after drop off but I would definitely include this as deductible miles and they will add up.


How do I prove the deadhead miles to the feds?


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## nonononodrivethru (Mar 25, 2019)

WNYuber said:


> How do I prove the deadhead miles to the feds?


You won't get audited for $5000 in income. They know we spend miles driving to the passenger.


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## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

WNYuber said:


> How do I prove the deadhead miles to the feds?


Started from 2018, Uber recorded App On miles in their record. It will help you to prove the dead miles. But if the total miles in your tax claim is reasonable, IRS won't ask. Since IRS is dealing with millions of drivers and they do have an estimated calculation based on income. 
https://help.uber.com/partners/arti...e?nodeId=8cfb60dd-7558-4367-bb29-dd9a5acbf24f


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

WNYuber said:


> How do I prove the deadhead miles to the feds?


You're assuming you'll get audited, which I am not. If so, be convincing. IRS is not going to chase after people to collect a few extra hundred in tax.


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## reg barclay (Nov 3, 2015)

WNYuber said:


> and I will only take the standard .58(or w/e it is this year) mile deduction, how much will I owe in taxes to NYS and the feds? Just assume I made no other money besides this....retired and not drawing pension/SS/401K....YET.
> I'm not claiming all the other BS deductions like dead head miles, water, and that kinda stuff....I'm too lazy to figure it all out and since I made so little the difference would be minimal.
> Thanks


AFAIK the number of children/dependents you have could heavily affect the tax bill.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

WNYuber said:


> How do I prove the deadhead miles to the feds?


By keeping a proper mileage log. You can have business miles with the app off. There are other miles that can be partially claimed with proper documentation.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> By keeping a proper mileage log. You can have business miles with the app off. There are other miles that can be partially claimed with proper documentation.


In the tax prep software... (going to use H&R block for an example) you write up your "professional chauffeur and delivery services" as one business. Using this method i can pull all the business use together into one pot for expenses/revenue.

Since the logs are fundamentally inseparable, you would write up your "business" as chaffeur/delivery, and just not even try.

So (as an example)

400 uber miles
+
200 lyft miles
+
150 door dash miles

= 1200 total miles driven. (with a log to support this claim)

No taxi drivers trip log will equal the total miles they drove, there's always "speculative" driving, getting lost, driving to a gas station, cruising for fares, ect.

The IRS understands this.


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

How does 400 + 200 + 150 = 1200?


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

I think that’s the speculative driving $450? Whatever part of that speculative driving that qualifies as business miles should be logged. The IRS also understands logs.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

percy_ardmore said:


> How does 400 + 200 + 150 = 1200?


400 miles on uber plus 200 miles on lyft plus 150 miles on door dash = 1200 deductible miles in the pursuit of making money.

The 450 missing miles is any number of ways your "working" but not actually on a specific task. Dropping off in the middle of nowhere and turning around and heading back to somewhere your going to actually get a ping. Dropping off in a residential side street and driving to the nearest 711 empty. Chasing a surge... Dropping off at the airport at 5:00 AM and going back downtown to try to get another fare to the airport. Dropping off in the suburbs and heading back towards the bars/nightclubs.



UberTaxPro said:


> I think that's the speculative driving 450 miles? Whatever part of that speculative driving that qualifies as business miles should be logged. The IRS also understands logs.


*adjusted, no dollar amounts, just miles*

Yes, i mean "Speculative" probably makes more sense as a line item on a taxi mileage. It makes far more sense to be driving around in circles cruising for a fare in a taxi than it does for uber/lyft.

Really that 450 miles is by definition the difference between what all your apps collectively think you drove and what you actually drove.

Really... if your logging everything properly, there's GOING to be a chunk of miles that you just can't account for,

SO.... what was I doing?

Well... I dropped off at Elm street, then i started heading towards downtown because generally downtown gives me a better chance at a ping at that hour, then i got a ping in the opposite direction.

So i drop off at Elm Street, and my next ping on my log is on Maple street 1.5 miles away, however i was 2.5 miles away from Maple street when i actually accepted it. :aliens:

And the extra miles get piled on that can't be put on any phase of any ping, but you are without a doubt "working" and the miles are for sure deductible.

If the IRS tried (and they won't trust me) to turn your stop by stop log into a mileage total, they will probably fail miserably and won't come anywhere close to your actual number.

Your goal in making a mileage log, is to make it such a gigantic pain in the rear that they can't in any reasonable length of time calculate how many miles you drove, while simultaneously logging your total miles from week to week in a way that shows you are actively driving WAY more than normal usage.

So basically any scrutiny should be like..

"You reported 30,000 miles, i need to see your log"

"Here's this giant log showing i drove a bajillion miles on the job. It has daily totals with odometer readings and like 10-15 pickup/dropoff locations per day"

"Looks like a good log to me" = *they didn't make this in 5 minutes, and there's no way i'm going to bother checking this*

The KEY to the IRS log is to throw a document at them that would take them so long to verify that they just won't bother.

15 fares = 29 address to address mileage calculations to do on a GPS to calculate how many miles it took.


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## NiteRake (Aug 22, 2019)

So you made $5000 and the question is will the IRS question if you write off 20% or so more than you can prove. That's about $1000. If you are in a 15% bracket or so, that means they might dispute you owe them another 150 bucks. So will they have some agent who makes 50 bucks an hour grill you over proper documentation. Does that seem reasonable to you? You are small potatoes and most likely will never hear from them. If you do then write them a long letter explaining all the different ways you racked up miles. OR pay the 150 bucks.



percy_ardmore said:


> If you claim $5000 and claim 2000 business miles, you would owe Fed $543. I don't know about state. Give me a more accurate mileage claim, if you can. Could deduct some phone costs, like maybe 10% of your anticipated phone bill for 2019.


Where does uber pay 2.50 a mile?? If he made $5000 he most likely drove closer to 10000 miles


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

You will owe $400 when all is said and done.

That would be zero to the government and $400 to H&R Block to do your taxes for you, to make sure you don't owe anything.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

@NiteRake And if it was 50,000?


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

i think you will ow zero. you actually should make money from this.
my tax pro told me to claim double the miles i drove half are dead miles. meaning you claim more from the miles then you earn.
ever mile driven you claim 2 @ .58 each. so 1.16 each mile you earned about .75 per mile so thats .41c over lap 
you made 5000 dollars @ .75 will say per mile 6.666 miles earned dead miles 6.666 . add 6.666x2 is 13332 and x .58 is 7732 dollars minus 5000 is 2732 over lap you ow nothing . my opinion stated i am not a tax pro i just posted this for fun.
this is something how my taxes looked for 2 years when they done mine.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

kingcorey321 said:


> i think you will ow zero. you actually should make money from this.
> my tax pro told me to claim double the miles i drove half are dead miles. meaning you claim more from the miles then you earn.
> ever mile driven you claim 2 @ .58 each. so 1.16 each mile you earned about .75 per mile so thats .41c over lap
> you made 5000 dollars @ .75 will say per mile 6.666 miles earned dead miles 6.666 . add 6.666x2 is 13332 and x .58 is 7732 dollars minus 5000 is 2732 over lap you ow nothing . my opinion stated i am not a tax pro i just posted this for fun.
> this is something how my taxes looked for 2 years when they done mine.


You probably actually drive double the miles or close to it! A $2732 loss? I'd make sure you have a mileage log.


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## kingcorey321 (May 20, 2018)

UberTaxPro said:


> You probably actually drive double the miles or close to it! A $2732 loss? I'd make sure you have a mileage log.


no worries for his 5000 lol odds are he will not get a 1099 from uber . i hope its the same as last year if it was under 20 k no 1099


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## NiteRake (Aug 22, 2019)

UberTaxPro said:


> @NiteRake And if it was 50,000?


 If you file under a schedule C , I cant imagine anyone paying any taxes on regular Uberx. I will deduct double the miles I am paid for based on the drive to and the deadhead returns. This means .58 times 2 or $1.16 for every mile you are paid for. If anyone here gets more than 1.16 from UberX I'm sure that you can then look at things like phone service (prorate the cost of the phone and internet), satellite Radio, Candy Water etc., . food you eat while on the road etc.


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

Mista T said:


> You will owe $400 when all is said and done.
> 
> That would be zero to the government and $400 to H&R Block to do your taxes for you, to make sure you don't owe anything.


You're right about the H & R Block part. Not many people know that the 2 German 'Bloch' brothers that formed the company replaced the 'h' at the end with 'k' due to WWII anti-German feeling.


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## Rockocubs (Jul 31, 2017)

WNYuber said:


> How do I prove the deadhead miles to the feds?


Uber tracks all miles when the app is on. If app isnt on then they are not deductable anyway


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Rockocubs said:


> Uber tracks all miles when the app is on. If app isnt on then they are not deductable anyway


Incorrect. Deadhead miles count. Check with a CPA if you don't believe me.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

What I will never understand is why anyone wouldn’t just keep a proper mileage log. It’s so dam easy to do it right but so many Uber/Lyft drivers have every excuse in the world not to do it. SMH.


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## Rockocubs (Jul 31, 2017)

Mista T said:


> Incorrect. Deadhead miles count. Check with a CPA if you don't believe me.


Well define you definition of deadhead mles to me.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

WNYuber said:


> I'm ashamed to say I don't know, is this information accessible to me thru Uber or do I have to wait till EOY.
> Thanks


When in doubt, lie lie lie.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Seamus said:


> What I will never understand is why anyone wouldn't just keep a proper mileage log. It's so dam easy to do it right but so many Uber/Lyft drivers have every excuse in the world not to do it. SMH.


I know. I don't trust Uber to accurately count my miles. I've always recorded my miles daily, as well as my starting and ending odometer readings.

And I need oil changes about every month, so the mileage recorded on those shows how many miles I put on.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Invisible said:


> I know. I don't trust Uber to accurately count my miles. I've always recorded my miles daily, as well as my starting and ending odometer readings.
> 
> And I need oil changes about every month, so the mileage recorded on those shows how many miles I put on.


One of the biggest problems relying on Uber besides accuracy is if you get deactivated, which could happen to anyone at any time, you may lose access to the information and then have nothing.


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## Invisible (Jun 15, 2018)

Seamus said:


> One of the biggest problems relying on Uber besides accuracy is if you get deactivated, which could happen to anyone at any time, you may lose access to the information and then have nothing.


Good point. I wasn't thinking of that, but the times their app goes wonky. Their technology isn't what I trust.


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## Asificarewhatyoudontthink (Jul 6, 2017)

WNYuber said:


> and I will only take the standard .58(or w/e it is this year) mile deduction, how much will I owe in taxes to NYS and the feds? Just assume I made no other money besides this....retired and not drawing pension/SS/401K....YET.
> I'm not claiming all the other BS deductions like dead head miles, water, and that kinda stuff....I'm too lazy to figure it all out and since I made so little the difference would be minimal.
> Thanks


Dead Head Miles are not BS.
They are miles you used your vehicle for the purposes of business and are valid deductions.
Ask ANY professional OTR truck driver if they log their DHM and they will tell you they absolutely do...every mile that vehicle moves in the purpose of providing the business use is deductible.

Oh, and this also includes what is called "staging" where you are traveling from a paid miles location to where you will wait for your next paid miles trip.

Since the total miles a vehicle providing transportation usually includes up to 1/3 rd of miles unpaid you are screwing yourself in the end if you don't include those miles.



WNYuber said:


> How do I prove the deadhead miles to the feds?


Mileage logs is one way.
Mileage estimates are often accepted as long as said estimates are not outrageous.
And, lastly and most painfully, you would pull up every ride, and figure the distance from the destination of the last ride and the pickup of the next if it was immediately after...
For cases where you went to a staging location you will, likely, remember where you went to sit and wait after a drop off and can figure from destination to that staging location and from the staging to the pickup.

But, in all cases where you don't know where, or even if, you were staging you can still just do from destination of previous ride to pickup of next ride. (obviously not including end of day trips to start of next day trips)


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Seamus said:


> What I will never understand is why anyone wouldn't just keep a proper mileage log. It's so dam easy to do it right but so many Uber/Lyft drivers have every excuse in the world not to do it. SMH.


I picked up another Uber driver that was here on vacation a couple of weeks ago, he saw me record my information in my trip log and was shocked. He is one of those that go off what Uber and gives him. We talked about dead miles and inaccuracies and I think he got it but he kept saying it would take so long to record that data. I said what do you mean, in the time you got in my car I had recorded the data. It takes seconds if you work out a system.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

WNYuber said:


> I'm too lazy to figure it all out


Than suffer the consequences.



Wildgoose said:


> There is a way to estimate Dead miles easily.


Many easy ways, the easiest being just to guess and hope you never have to prove it. Very Easy!



nonononodrivethru said:


> You won't get audited for $5000 in income.


Famous last words.



Wildgoose said:


> But if the total miles in your tax claim is reasonable, IRS won't ask.


Said the head of the IRS @Wildgoose .



percy_ardmore said:


> YIRS is not going to chase after people to collect a few extra hundred in tax.


Because it is too burdensome on them to mail you a request to submit your mileage log.



NiteRake said:


> . If you do then write them a long letter explaining all the different ways you racked up miles.


Because that is an acceptable replacement for a mileage log.



Rockocubs said:


> If app isnt on then they are not deductable anyway


When drivers are finished dispensing their legal advice for the day, then they switch to CPA mode to dispense accurate tax advice.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> he kept saying it would take so long to record that data.


I start my driving shift. My odometer is set to zero. If it is not, I set it to zero.

I drive. I don't do anything that is not related to driving except maybe stop for food, gas or coffee, and those are all along whatever route I happen to be on.

At end of my shift I arrive home.

Record my odometer miles and zero it out for the next day.

100% of my activities pertained to driving, therefore I record 100% of my miles. Doesn't matter if they were Uber, Lyft, waiting for pings, or deadhead back from Timbuktu. All counts the same for the taxman.


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## TCar (Aug 4, 2019)

From the beginning, started by downloading Uber, Lyft, and StrideTax Apps. 
Anytime Uber or Lyft is on, StrideTax app is counting mileage. 
If I take a ride north 1 hour, Stride counts miles back to where i started.
When I am done driving, turn off Stride app. 
Usually about 2x the miles reported by uber and lyft. 

There are other apps to count mileage, but i like StrideTax!


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## itendstonight (Feb 10, 2019)

Has anyone actually been audited by the IRS because of UBER or Lyft income?


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

itendstonight said:


> Has anyone actually been audited by the IRS because of UBER or Lyft income?


This might be more about U/L expenses! But yes someone has actually been audited due to U/L income.

https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/ustcinop/opinionviewer.aspx?ID=11787


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## itendstonight (Feb 10, 2019)

UberTaxPro said:


> This might be more about U/L expenses! But yes someone has actually been audited due to U/L income.
> 
> https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/ustcinop/opinionviewer.aspx?ID=11787


That guy was insane for all the expenses he claimed! Well I only claim mileage that Uber and Lyft report and I pretty much don't buy anything else that needs expenses. So I do have a tax liability at the end of the year a couple hundred dollars but that's worth it if I don't have to stress myself with logging
BTW! Are those .50$ instant pay offs deductible?!


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

Yes the 50 cents is a bank fee. That's where I claim it


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

nonononodrivethru said:


> Add dead head miles. With EIC and the standard deduction, you shouldn't owe a penny.


Yeah I have no idea why the OP would not apply to the dead miles, they are every bit as deductible as the live miles. OP is just giving away money with this tactic and it's so easy to track.


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## percy_ardmore (Jun 4, 2019)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Yeah I have no idea why the OP would not apply to the dead miles, they are every bit as deductible as the live miles. OP is just giving away money with this tactic and it's so easy to track.


Standard deduction does not offset self-employment tax.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

itendstonight said:


> Has anyone actually been audited by the IRS because of UBER or Lyft income?


I'm in the process of fighting the IRS regarding reported income from U and L. They claim one number, and I reported what hit my bank account. We will see where this goes.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Mista T said:


> I'm in the process of fighting the IRS regarding reported income from U and L. They claim one number, and I reported what hit my bank account. We will see where this goes.


Did you get a CP2000 Notice?


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Mista T said:


> I'm in the process of fighting the IRS regarding reported income from U and L. They claim one number, and I reported what hit my bank account. We will see where this goes.


On schedule C You have to match the 1099 number and then write off the fees. If you don't match the 1099 as a starting point you will be flagged every time. Send them a new Schedule C matching the 1099 and write of the fees, you will end up at your number and all will be good.



percy_ardmore said:


> Standard deduction does not offset self-employment tax.


Exactly. Standard deduction is on 1040 and has nothing to do with schedule C business income/loss and nothing to do with self-employment tax.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

UberTaxPro said:


> Did you get a CP2000 Notice?


I got a "Notice of Proposed Change" to my taxes, don't remember if there was a CP2000 with it or not.


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## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Rockocubs said:


> Uber tracks all miles when the app is on. If app isnt on then they are not deductable anyway


Wrong


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

FLKeys said:


> By keeping a proper mileage log. You can have business miles with the app off. There are other miles that can be partially claimed with proper documentation.


Yep.
I have taken long trips and coming home I guess with the radio up I missed pings and I was logged out. (I did not want rides anyway- I know nobody's going my way and not interested working in a strange town, going sideways or the wrong way...tried the destination-it sucks-total waste)

Uber does not have them but they are in my log.



Seamus said:


> Than suffer the consequences.
> 
> 
> When drivers are finished dispensing their legal advice for the day, then they switch to CPA mode to dispense accurate tax advice.


:shame::shame::shame::shame::shame::shame::shame::shame::shame:

I actually go to the ask a lawyer forum (and if I have extra time after that I give medical advice)


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

percy_ardmore said:


> Standard deduction does not offset self-employment tax.


You pay all taxes based on your income. If you apply all the business miles you are entitled to you your taxable income will be reduced dramatically. This deduction could offset the vast majority of your taxable income. So yeah not applying all the deductions to your income you are entitled to will increase your tax liability unnecessarily,



itendstonight said:


> That guy was insane for all the expenses he claimed! Well I only claim mileage that Uber and Lyft report and I pretty much don't buy anything else that needs expenses. So I do have a tax liability at the end of the year a couple hundred dollars but that's worth it if I don't have to stress myself with logging
> BTW! Are those .50$ instant pay offs deductible?!


Assuming you run both apps at the same time on occasion, as most of us do if we are smart, you can't just use the Uber/Lyft statements as some of the miles overlap. The IRS knows this, good luck.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Mista T said:


> I got a "Notice of Proposed Change" to my taxes, don't remember if there was a CP2000 with it or not.


Did it look like this? Did you respond?


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## NiteRake (Aug 22, 2019)

itendstonight said:


> Has anyone actually been audited by the IRS because of UBER or Lyft income?


if you figure two miles for each one paid then you would get $1.16 per mile deduction. Add to that phone, meals on the road, radio etc. Hard to have much income for the IRS to be concerned with. Keep in mind that the IRS computers kick out letters for unreported 1099s and math errors etc but an actual "prove your deductions" audit costs them money. We are small fish.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

UberTaxPro said:


> Did it look like this? Did you respond?


Yup, that's what it looked like.

I told em that U/L never sent me a physical 1099, even though I specifically asked for one and they are required by law to do so by end of January. I told them that since I didn't have 1099s, I did what is instructed on the IRS website of instructions, and used what other info I had available - bank statements.

The IRS said (by letter) that they would get back to me. There is no contact info to talk to a human over there.

Soon after, Uber forced me to verify my SSN. Have not heard from Lyft. Still waiting on the IRS.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Mista T said:


> Yup, that's what it looked like.
> 
> I told em that U/L never sent me a physical 1099, even though I specifically asked for one and they are required by law to do so by end of January. I told them that since I didn't have 1099s, I did what is instructed on the IRS website of instructions, and used what other info I had available - bank statements.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Your tax info is available on your U/L online account. The letters I've seen have the option to respond with corrected information. The fastest way to resolve this would have been for you to send a corrected Schedule C (using the online tax info) along with your response to the letter by the date they specified. But your way might work also...please keep me informed.


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## itendstonight (Feb 10, 2019)

How much


Mista T said:


> I'm in the process of fighting the IRS regarding reported income from U and L. They claim one number, and I reported what hit my bank account. We will see where this goes.





Darrell Green Fan said:


> You pay all taxes based on your income. If you apply all the business miles you are entitled to you your taxable income will be reduced dramatically. This deduction could offset the vast majority of your taxable income. So yeah not applying all the deductions to your income you are entitled to will increase your tax liability unnecessarily,
> 
> 
> Assuming you run both apps at the same time on occasion, as most of us do if we are smart, you can't just use the Uber/Lyft statements as some of the miles overlap. The IRS knows this, good luck.





UberTaxPro said:


> Interesting. Your tax info is available on your U/L online account. The letters I've seen have the option to respond with corrected information. The fastest way to resolve this would have been for you to send a corrected Schedule C (using the online tax info) along with your response to the letter by the date they specified. But your way might work also...please keep me informed.


What would be the consequence of the IRS not accepting your milage deduction numbers? Losing all the deductions and paying taxes on the full amount you made of them revising the miles claimed lower to some level?


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

itendstonight said:


> How much
> 
> What would be the consequence of the IRS not accepting your milage deduction numbers? Losing all the deductions and paying taxes on the full amount you made of them revising the miles claimed lower to some level?


They could not except it or reduce it.



NiteRake said:


> if you figure two miles for each one paid then you would get $1.16 per mile deduction. Add to that phone, meals on the road, radio etc. Hard to have much income for the IRS to be concerned with. Keep in mind that the IRS computers kick out letters for unreported 1099s and math errors etc but an actual "prove your deductions" audit costs them money. We are small fish.


Actually most IRS audit is done by mail. They ask for thing for you to send to prove you deductions. And it doesn't really cost them much they are all salaried employees. I had a friend that use to do them and she did hundreds a year. All small time people under $100,000.a year gross income.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

itendstonight said:


> How much
> 
> What would be the consequence of the IRS not accepting your milage deduction numbers?


That would be my guess, which is why I take no chances that the deduction would be disallowed as there is a ton of money at stake. . So I play it safe, I stop and start the app after each ride as some auditors require that each ride be broken out. Not kidding, my tax lady said she had 2 clients whose deduction was disallowed for not doing this. I also do not start the counter from home as the IRS may consider the drive to your first pickup as a commute, as they do with sales people. Since we don't know which ride is our last I shut it off a few miles from home when I don't want another ride that will take me out of the area. The way I figure I got too much to lose if they decline the deduction so why not play it safe?


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> That would be my guess, which is why I take no chances that the deduction would be disallowed as there is a ton of money at stake. . So I play it safe, I stop and start the app after each ride as some auditors require that each ride be broken out. Not kidding, my tax lady said she had 2 clients whose deduction was disallowed for not doing this. I also do not start the counter from home as the IRS may consider the drive to your first pickup as a commute, as they do with sales people. Since we don't know which ride is our last I shut it off a few miles from home when I don't want another ride that will take me out of the area. The way I figure I got too much to lose if they decline the deduction so why not play it safe?


Smart, you get it and are 100% correct. (I don't exclude driveway to first pick up though). I use an app called TripLog that captures ALL required information: odometer reading, each business address, etc.etc.. Plus you can use all the data to create analytic reports if you want. $40 per year, well worth it.

You are banging your head against the wall on this forum however. 90% of the drivers will argue with you all day long that you don't need to meet ALL the IRS mileage log requirements. I've given up even trying to educate them, you just get an argument. It's by far your biggest deduction. Just do it right and protect it. Simple.


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## Bork_Bork_Bork (May 20, 2019)

percy_ardmore said:


> If you claim $5000 and claim 2000 business miles, you would owe Fed $543. I don't know about state. Give me a more accurate mileage claim, if you can. Could deduct some phone costs, like maybe 10% of your anticipated phone bill for 2019.


'You can't deduct miles AND expenses. Nothing makes me laugh more when this comes up EVERY year.

Just remember, you're not going to hear from the IRS next year when you try that nonsense.....it'll be the year (or up to 7 years) after. Penalties and interests all compounding......

Consult a tax professional.


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Bork_Bork_Bork said:


> 'You can't deduct miles AND expenses. Nothing makes me laugh more when this comes up EVERY year.
> 
> Just remember, you're not going to hear from the IRS next year when you try that nonsense.....it'll be the year (or up to 7 years) after. Penalties and interests all compounding......
> 
> Consult a tax professional.


WRONG!!! You can't deduct mileage and actual CAR expenses. You can deduct mileage and OTHER business expenses such as Cell phone, tax prep fee, bank fees, etc.etc. etc. Those are business expenses and have nothing to do with standard mileage deduction vs actual car expenses.

Consult a tax professional.


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## Bork_Bork_Bork (May 20, 2019)

Seamus said:


> WRONG!!! You can't deduct mileage and actual CAR expenses. You can deduct mileage and OTHER business expenses such as Cell phone, tax prep fee, bank fees, etc.etc. etc. Those are business expenses and have nothing to do with standard mileage deduction vs actual car expenses.
> 
> Consult a tax professional.


If you were an actual business, as in an LLC or other incorporation, you'd be right. In this case, you're wrong. And a moron.


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## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Bork_Bork_Bork said:


> If you were an actual business, as in an LLC or other incorporation, you'd be right. In this case, you're wrong. And a moron.


Actually, we ARE each our own business. As Independent Contractors we are considered to be self employed. I've been this way for 26 years.


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## Bork_Bork_Bork (May 20, 2019)

Mista T said:


> Actually, we ARE each our own business. As Independent Contractors we are considered to be self employed. I've been this way for 26 years.


This COULD be true (under IRS guidelines) but with 99.9% of drivers, I'd wager it's not.
Doesn't matter what I say, or anyone else. Only matters what the feds say.


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## DriverMark (Jan 22, 2018)

WNYuber said:


> 95% of Uber drivers are goblins and COMPLETELY undateable, with that said, i am indeed single


To be honest, the milage that Uber stated (and Lyft) I drove more than covered my mileage deduction and gave me a nice return as well. My mileage I had tracked was more. But since all my taxes were covered with what they report I figured that was a pretty safe bet if I should by some strange circumstance get audited. Now, I don't live in a tax suck hole like NY, so things might be different for you. And, I do have wife and 4 dependent children. All that said. I really can't imagine the mileage deduction not covering someones taxes. Just don't do something stupid and obscene on your taxes. Keep them simple, balanced and honest so as to avoid THEIR algorithms. And I do have other deductions, like monthly car wash subscription, cell phone deduction, any supplies/gear I purchase for driving, etc etc. Like all the gear to fit out our new van we purchased last year, dashcam, weather tech floor mats, etc etc.

_Please note: I'm not a tax lawyer or accountant and have no clue what I'm talking about. Just an uneducated Uber peasant._


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

Bork_Bork_Bork said:


> If you were an actual business, as in an LLC or other incorporation, you'd be right. In this case, you're wrong. And a moron.


LOL you are clueless. FYI I am an LLC! Not that that's even required.

I'll put you on the list of clueless giving bad advice on things you just proved you know very little about. &#128514;


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

nonononodrivethru said:


> You won't get audited for $5000 in income. They know we spend miles driving to the passenger.


Journal your log-on and log-off odometer, and log your total miles on the app. This works if you keep the app on. If you are not available to accept rides (whether in or out of your allowed region, formally) you are weaker to prove deadhead miles. You can look at the pay statements to check if they correlate. Together they form an airtight documentation.



nonononodrivethru said:


> You won't get audited for $5000 in income. They know we spend miles driving to the passenger.


There are random audits that IRS conducts as a routine.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Seamus said:


> Smart, you get it and are 100% correct. (I don't exclude driveway to first pick up though). I use an app called TripLog that captures ALL required information: odometer reading, each business address, etc.etc.. Plus you can use all the data to create analytic reports if you want. $40 per year, well worth it.
> 
> You are banging your head against the wall on this forum however. 90% of the drivers will argue with you all day long that you don't need to meet ALL the IRS mileage log requirements. I've given up even trying to educate them, you just get an argument. It's by far your biggest deduction. Just do it right and protect it. Simple.


Oh no doubt about this forum. I spent a few days debating with drivers who defended a driver and blamed the PAX who was dragged from the car and punched in the face by the driver. LOL. Idiots.

And of course it's the same with this topic. Posters claim they were audited and the IRS did not require a ride breakdown so I was obviously wrong while ignoring my comment that other auditors may in fact require it so why on Earth would you take a chance? They really believe you don't need to meet ALL the IRS requirements? This forum is full of really really stupid people.

I use Stride, it's free and gives you a spread sheet with the stop and start address. There is zero reason not to run one of these apps that accurately capture all of the miles you are entitled to.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Oh no doubt about this forum. I spent a few days debating with drivers who defended a driver and blamed the PAX who was dragged from the car and punched in the face by the driver. LOL. Idiots.
> 
> And of course it's the same with this topic. Posters claim they were audited and the IRS did not require a ride breakdown so I was obviously wrong while ignoring my comment that other auditors may in fact require it so why on Earth would you take a chance? They really believe you don't need to meet ALL the IRS requirements? This forum is full of really really stupid people.
> 
> I use Stride, it's free and gives you a spread sheet with the stop and start address. There is zero reason not to run one of these apps that accurately capture all of the miles you are entitled to.


The problem with a discipline like that is that one other factor enters such an audit, which creates the differences between auditors that you describe. The auditor needs to become clear about the nature and requirements of the work. Once you can communicate to the auditor exactly the requirements and nature of the work, you lay the map of how you report your facts that consistently coincide. The auditor is looking for consistency above everything else, after knowing your own work. You can not be unclear about your work, therefore. You can not confuse yourself with a type of driver that uses the car for client calls. The reequirements of the Congress, then the IRS (it was an Act of Congress, signed by President Reagan that created them) is not to disregard the nature of the work. You have to do record keeping that shows your business. Stride is not designed for the ridesharing or even food delivery app activities. Using it or another like it omits your cruising miles and the miles you cover without a passenger or order. You have to track your bulk miles and you have to make the auditor (whether or not you ever encounter) see the consistency in its method. If an auditor can not understand your business ask for a manager referral to bring your case under oversight where you may be given the chance to be assigned to another auditor. An auditor must understand your business and you must make the effort to gain that understanding.



Seamus said:


> Smart, you get it and are 100% correct. (I don't exclude driveway to first pick up though). I use an app called TripLog that captures ALL required information: odometer reading, each business address, etc.etc.. Plus you can use all the data to create analytic reports if you want. $40 per year, well worth it.
> 
> You are banging your head against the wall on this forum however. 90% of the drivers will argue with you all day long that you don't need to meet ALL the IRS mileage log requirements. I've given up even trying to educate them, you just get an argument. It's by far your biggest deduction. Just do it right and protect it. Simple.


Yes you need to meet ALL the IRS log requirements that apply to your business, not a different kind of business. You have to know the nature of the business, know how to exhibit or explain the nature of the business, and you have to do record keeping consistent with that business.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I keep a manual log, I break down every trip, if I were to print my mileage log right now it would be 328 pages long. I never once felt over burdened keeping it.

I have found several trips a month where U/L have under paid mileage. The app miles did not match my odometer miles. If I did not keep a manual log I would never catch these app/GPS errors.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

FLKeys said:


> I keep a manual log, I break down every trip, if I were to print my mileage log right now it would be 328 pages long. I never once felt over burdened keeping it.
> 
> I have found several trips a month where U/L have under paid mileage. The app miles did not match my odometer miles. If I did not keep a manual log I would never catch these app/GPS errors.


You are under-computing your business mileage.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

LADryver said:


> You are under-computing your business mileage.


Do you mean he is not getting the highest business mileage write-off? He seems to have it covered pretty well. Please explain. Thank you.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

LADryver said:


> You are under-computing your business mileage.


As mentioned above, please explain. Or are you being sarcastic. Hard to tell in text, I think there is an unofficial forum rule that all sarcasm should be in green text.

Pretty sure I am taking exactly what I am entitled to take. I don't cheat my mileage logs for more miles, I take exactly what I am entitled to.


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## VanGuy (Feb 15, 2019)

If that were true almost all of my posts would be in green.


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## doyousensehumor (Apr 13, 2015)

FLKeys said:


> As mentioned above, please explain. Or are you being sarcastic. Hard to tell in text, I think there is an unofficial forum rule that all sarcasm should be in green text.


Thankyou for the suggestion. I'll get right on that. &#128077;


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## Seamus (Jun 21, 2018)

doyousensehumor said:


> Thankyou for the suggestion. I'll get right on that. &#128077;


I really appreciate UP members like @doyousensehumor who adopt helpful suggestions! You take instruction well.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

LADryver said:


> The problem with a discipline like that is that one other factor enters such an audit, which creates the differences between auditors that you describe. The auditor needs to become clear about the nature and requirements of the work. Once you can communicate to the auditor exactly the requirements and nature of the work, you lay the map of how you report your facts that consistently coincide. The auditor is looking for consistency above everything else, after knowing your own work. You can not be unclear about your work, therefore. You can not confuse yourself with a type of driver that uses the car for client calls. The reequirements of the Congress, then the IRS (it was an Act of Congress, signed by President Reagan that created them) is not to disregard the nature of the work. You have to do record keeping that shows your business. Stride is not designed for the ridesharing or even food delivery app activities. Using it or another like it omits your cruising miles and the miles you cover without a passenger or order. You have to track your bulk miles and you have to make the auditor (whether or not you ever encounter) see the consistency in its method. If an auditor can not understand your business ask for a manager referral to bring your case under oversight where you may be given the chance to be assigned to another auditor. An auditor must understand your business and you must make the effort to gain that understanding.
> 
> 
> Yes you need to meet ALL the IRS log requirements that apply to your business, not a different kind of business. You have to know the nature of the business, know how to exhibit or explain the nature of the business, and you have to do record keeping consistent with that business.


Stride does in fact capture all the dead miles you drive searching for the next ride, not sure why you would think it does not. You start it at the first pick up, stop it at the drop, then start it again as you leave which captures the miles you drive in between rides while also proving the IRS with a breakout of each ride should they require it.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

Trip log also record's all milage


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Stride does in fact capture all the dead miles you drive searching for the next ride, not sure why you would think it does not. You start it at the first pick up, stop it at the drop, then start it again as you leave which captures the miles you drive in between rides while also proving the IRS with a breakout of each ride should they require it.


Stop, start, stop, start. Cant you realize that for the deduction you need just the start when you hit "Go" and stop when you go offline, and ALL the miles in between are your business miles. Rinse, Repeat. Trust me, IRS wont be bothering about a transportation provider's individual rides so long as they do not dictate the activity such as a charter bus. They care about when you are working as a driver, available and ready. Every mile you drive that way is business. If Uber insures it, you can deduct it. Stop watching other industries.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

It only takes 2 seconds to start stop start after every pax with an app. Like trip log and it shows all miles ad addresses. I'd rather be safe than sorry. You do it you way I'll do it mine.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

islanddriver said:


> It only takes 2 seconds to start stop start after every pax with an app. Like trip log and it shows all miles ad addresses. I'd rather be safe than sorry. You do it you way I'll do it mine.


As you wish. But I was painstakingly trained on the IRS salary and time in what and what does not make the standards. The problem you do not realize you could face is that you run several risks while conducting yourself as a different business. You would fail to make clear what your business is, and you could annoy an auditor or tax preparer for that matter. Short cuts to your detriment could be taken while playing a style that does not apply to you as "safe" I went into tax kicking and screaming but did learn how many people make so many mistakes. If they weren't so stubborn I might have remained in that field. Fear of the IRS is a terrible plight. Have you considered downloading your Earnings Activity pages, or Pay Statements?

I just downloaded my monthly statements. Also if I want I can download every trip detail in my spare time without using an app. All I need is the starting and stopping Go-Offline) odometer readings. If you want to pretend you need to do the hardest thing, you are avoiding reality.


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

What is so hard to hit start stop start in an app?


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

@UberTaxPro also reply to @islanddriver They do not teach you this in private industry land, so I am giving you a piece of information you can use for any and all audits throughout your career. It seems especially useful to Rideshare and Delivery drivers. Any individual driver who understands this will be equipped to prepare their records and tax return with confidence. People who are not in business for themselves do not need this information. When the issues are bank accounts, investments, outside sales, rentals, and all the rest, this information does not enter the picture. This information applies to business activities as owners of businesses, either sole proprietors with Schedule C's, Partnerships with the Schedule K's, or the variations of 1120 Corporations. Not every tax preparer knows everything all of the time. If you arent always learning you are not getting stronger. There are ways to learn. One is by learning the reasons for the laws. This is crucial when making "arguments" or "taking positions" on a tax return. If you know the common dilution of instructions you are forced to remain ignorant. When you have your scheduled continued education, insist on courses taught by someone who is or has been employed by the IRS. I always did. Even after I left the IRS I had amazing advantages, the first was knowing the difference between IRS knowledge and outside knowledge. I never had an instructor who was not an IRS employee. Next, I had libraries of tax research volumes in the tax and CPA offices I worked in. Before the internet there was a huge standard collection by Commerce Clearing House. CCH was a quotable standard. I ate gray areas for breakfast. If you want an updated view of this invaluable resource here is a link: https://www.cch.com/About/

I also had two others. Before entering the IRS and coincidentally concurrent with, my Business Law professor was an active IRS Attorney. And on the other side of employ when I moved to California and chose not to change Divisions and resigned, a new best friend was coincidentally an active Examiner (aka Auditor) who later got promoted to Manager, then Appeals Officer, and probably is higher still even having diverted paths. He helped me understand a lot of basic resources that I had to know to solve my clients problems. So the first thing I want to tell you, even though you may realize it, is that you have the tip of the iceberg, and can go deeper. I have the second thing. My friend's experienced wisdom: Make sure you know your own business, and can clearly communicate and convince an auditor of your business. Do that, and you get to keep your deductions. Confuse the auditor, and then you will lose your deductions.

The appropriate record keeping depends on the business. Rideshare and Delivery like us is not to be confused with sales forces or traveling executuves. If you keep records that do not protect your business, you will confuse yourself and an auditor. Each other stop, start, would be risking disallowance solely because it forces explanation that eliminates the unique footprint of the business. If you do not have to explain it, you keep it.

Stop the apps. Stop the stopping and starting. Own your business and use the contemporaneius records that are provided to you in combination with your daily business to personal log journal on a spreadsheet. The IRS will support it, and if you are unsure, then do the research.

Its the one thing Uber gets right.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

LADryver said:


> @UberTaxPro also reply to @islanddriver They do not teach you this in private industry land, so I am giving you a piece of information you can use for any and all audits throughout your career. It seems especially useful to Rideshare and Delivery drivers. Any individual driver who understands this will be equipped to prepare their records and tax return with confidence. People who are not in business for themselves do not need this information. When the issues are bank accounts, investments, outside sales, rentals, and all the rest, this information does not enter the picture. This information applies to business activities as owners of businesses, either sole proprietors with Schedule C's, Partnerships with the Schedule K's, or the variations of 1120 Corporations. Not every tax preparer knows everything all of the time. If you arent always learning you are not getting stronger. There are ways to learn. One is by learning the reasons for the laws. This is crucial when making "arguments" or "taking positions" on a tax return. If you know the common dilution of instructions you are forced to remain ignorant. When you have your scheduled continued education, insist on courses taught by someone who is or has been employed by the IRS. I always did. Even after I left the IRS I had amazing advantages, the first was knowing the difference between IRS knowledge and outside knowledge. I never had an instructor who was not an IRS employee. Next, I had libraries of tax research volumes in the tax and CPA offices I worked in. Before the internet there was a huge standard collection by Commerce Clearing House. CCH was a quotable standard. I ate gray areas for breakfast. If you want an updated view of this invaluable resource here is a link: https://www.cch.com/About/
> 
> I also had two others. Before entering the IRS and coincidentally concurrent with, my Business Law professor was an active IRS Attorney. And on the other side of employ when I moved to California and chose not to change Divisions and resigned, a new best friend was coincidentally an active Examiner (aka Auditor) who later got promoted to Manager, then Appeals Officer, and probably is higher still even having diverted paths. He helped me understand a lot of basic resources that I had to know to solve my clients problems. So the first thing I want to tell you, even though you may realize it, is that you have the tip of the iceberg, and can go deeper. I have the second thing. My friend's experienced wisdom: Make sure you know your own business, and can clearly communicate and convince an auditor of your business. Do that, and you get to keep your deductions. Confuse the auditor, and then you will lose your deductions.
> 
> ...


CCH is great! I'm currently using their tax software and have access to much of their tax research through my part time tax season affiliation with a remote online accounting firm.

This is my personal favorite research resource and it's free and available to all taxpayers! https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26

One possible problem with relying on the records provided to drivers by U/L is that access to those online records will end when U/L terminates a driver for any reason. Regular downloading of the records resolves this.

You were lucky to have such knowledgeable mentors willing to share!


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

UberTaxPro said:


> CCH is great! I'm currently using their tax software and have access to much of their tax research through my part time tax season affiliation with a remote online accounting firm.
> 
> This is my personal favorite research resource and it's free and available to all taxpayers! https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26
> 
> ...


Thank you. I felt fortunate.

When I worked at the IRS I had a soft cover copy of the IRC that I used along with Pubs 17 and 34 and forms and instructions. Although I won an observation rank of 1 in 50, I knew nothing until I worked with CCH in earnest. Their research resources are ordered by code sections but they also add the Regulations and Tax Law decisions with explanations. IRS Auditors and above use this too. Nothing in CCH is rebellious. It is a larger life form view of the living Tax laws, and when you go head to head, this is what you need. It is good you have access. The IRC is the skeleton. It is the start point. CCH is the whole body.

As you say, regular downloading resolves limited availability. Another word of awareness to all Uber drivers, even those who are not deactivated. The number of days when the data is kept online are 100. It could be a daily routine to create pdf's and store on the cloud. Pay Statements, Earnings Activities, and Individual Rides. Make sure you make pdf documents because otherwise you just save the link url. You do not get it from the app but from online account in your browser. In the event of deactivation you can send a letter to Accounting at Uber to request the documents. They belong to you.

I do not drive Lyft. I do not know where their records are available.


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## Laura Smith (Jun 4, 2015)

UberTaxPro said:


> Until his net income reaches $13,850 (standard deduction + $1650 for age 65+ ) he won't owe anything for federal. If he's not 65 yet the number is $12,200. Generally he'll pay self employment tax on 92.35% of his net income. The rate for S/E tax is 15.3%.


Hey, Pro, I have a question for which I've heard 2 equally emphatic, opposite responses: cell phone expense is not deductible unless the phone is exclusive to the business. H&R Block said no. So many people use it and I'm here to see if anything has changed in a couple years. Thanks much for your info.



UberTaxPro said:


> Until his net income reaches $13,850 (standard deduction + $1650 for age 65+ ) he won't owe anything for federal. If he's not 65 yet the number is $12,200. Generally he'll pay self employment tax on 92.35% of his net income. The rate for S/E tax is 15.3%.


Hey, Pro, I have a question for which I've heard 2 equally emphatic, opposite responses: cell phone expense is not deductible unless the phone is exclusive to the business. H&R Block said no. So many people use it and I'm here to see if anything has changed in a couple years. Thanks much for your info.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

LADryver said:


> Stop, start, stop, start. Cant you realize that for the deduction you need just the start when you hit "Go" and stop when you go offline, and ALL the miles in between are your business miles. Rinse, Repeat. Trust me, IRS wont be bothering about a transportation provider's individual rides so long as they do not dictate the activity such as a charter bus. They care about when you are working as a driver, available and ready. Every mile you drive that way is business. If Uber insures it, you can deduct it. Stop watching other industries.


Not sure how many times I need to post this but the woman who does my taxes had 2 different ride share drivers who had their deduction refused because they did not break out the rides. Again as I said all auditors do not require this but do you want to take the chance that you get one that does require it given what's at stake? Not me. That's all I've been saying, to protect myself I break out the rides as that seems like an easy way to avoid potential problems down the road.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

WNYuber said:


> and I will only take the standard .58(or w/e it is this year) mile deduction, how much will I owe in taxes to NYS and the feds? Just assume I made no other money besides this....retired and not drawing pension/SS/401K....YET.
> I'm not claiming all the other BS deductions like dead head miles, water, and that kinda stuff....I'm too lazy to figure it all out and since I made so little the difference would be minimal.
> Thanks


Deadhead miles are very far from being "BS". You need to understand that your driving while available to take rides (In California that applies to the whole state) even if you get none, are legitimate business miles. Water to drink is never part of your necessary business expense. In fact, you are right to call it B.S because the standards used would disqualify it. Amenities are an optional so would not stand through an audit if noticed. If they are not mentioned, dont mention it, another rule. Leaving that out is good judgement but do not short change yourself with your miles. If the app is on, so is the deduction, and the extra insurance, by the way. If they insure it you can deduct it.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> Not sure how many times I need to post this but the woman who does my taxes had 2 different ride share drivers who had their deduction refused because they did not break out the rides. Again as I said all auditors do not require this but do you want to take the chance that you get one that does require it given what's at stake? Not me. That's all I've been saying, to protect myself I break out the rides as that seems like an easy way to avoid potential problems down the road.


They had their deductions disallowed because they failed to communicate to the auditor the actual nature of the business. Convince an auditor of your real business, and you will keep all of your allowable deductions. I can not emphasize it enough, that when you talk of rides, so will the auditor. Nevermind individual rides. Individual rides are the fruits of your labor and your labor is all of your miles spent on the app. Practice defining your business and it will become clearer. Do not break out the rides unless you ask an auditor to do the same. If an auditor, after seeing confused rideshare drivers, is then also confused with you, ask for referral to their manager. They are required to stop their examination and prepare the referral. Be ready to clearly explain the insignificance of individual rides. And if that tax preparer had two clients disallowed, they misunderstood and mischaracterized the business. Find someone who does not. You need someone who handles cab drivers who own their own cabs. Our competition can be our clarity. In business we are related to them. They have trips but nobody expects a cab driver to write off only his revenue moments.

You can relax by downloading on pdf the trips Uber (I only know Uber) breaks down for you. Their records are contemporaneous and are on your behalf. Download when you have breaks, into pdfs, and upload to google drive or your other cloud account. Then dont sweat it, you are covered, but do not mention the revenue moments to your tax preparer. Dont confuse them. The phrase is coined, "revenue moments" and you have "driving miles", those that are spent on the app. All a tax preparer needs to know are the business miles, personal miles, and that you have a contemporaneous record. Just download the statements, drill down to the earnings activities, leave them home. People do not understand us. We have to enforce what we are.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

LADryver said:


> They had their deductions disallowed because they failed to communicate to the auditor the actual nature of the business. Convince an auditor of your real business, and you will keep all of your allowable deductions. I can not emphasize it enough, that when you talk of rides, so will the auditor.


I read you say this several times and it still makes no sense to me. We driver people and get paid for those rides, we then deduct the allowable miles. I'm not sure what more needs to be explained to the auditor. Why would we need to properly explain to the IRS what we do when it appears very obvious? No I believe they know exactly what we do, the only issue here is properly documenting the business miles in a manner that meets all their requirement. And seeing as they have required a breakout for each ride from ride share drivers in the past well that's good enough for me. I have yet to see any reason not to do it. And again by stopping and then starting the app after the drop you are in fact capturing all the dead miles between rides that we are entitled to. I also drive Lyft as most of us do I won't have that breakout from the driver apps.

By the way I hear you on your comments about the standard business mile deduction offsets any other deductions such as amenities, car washes etc. But it's my understanding that you can claim 1/2 of your cell phone bill as a business expense, with the understanding that the other half is personal. Is this correct?


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## islanddriver (Apr 6, 2018)

Use app Trip log start when you turn on your Uber app pick up pax drop off pax stop trip log then start Trip log up again before you leave location where you dropped pax off .this logs your dead miles . Drive till next pax with Trip log on . When you get next pax drive till drop off with Trip log on drop of pax stop trip log . Just keep repeating as long as you out for Uber work.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I read you say this several times and it still makes no sense to me. We driver people and get paid for those rides, we then deduct the allowable miles. I'm not sure what more needs to be explained to the auditor. What exactly are you saying and why would we need to properly explain to the IRS what we do when it appears very obvious? They know exactly what we do, the only issue here is properly documenting the business miles. And seeing as they have required a breakout for each ride from ride share drivers in the past well that's good enough for me. I have yet to see any reason not to do it. And seeing as I also drive Lyft as most of us do I won't have that breakout from the driver apps.


I believe he is saying that the IRS requires varying levels of detail, depending on the circumstances and type of business. And if you give them to much detail for your circumstance or business it could end up working to your detriment. 
You're correct, the real issue here is documenting the business miles and there has been drivers on this board that have had their logs rejected in mail audits because of lack of detail.



Laura Smith said:


> Hey, Pro, I have a question for which I've heard 2 equally emphatic, opposite responses: cell phone expense is not deductible unless the phone is exclusive to the business. H&R Block said no. So many people use it and I'm here to see if anything has changed in a couple years. Thanks much for your info.


The business use % of the cell phone is deductible. So if you use it 50% for personal 50% for business than 50% of the cost is deductible.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

UberTaxPro said:


> I believe he is saying that the IRS requires varying levels of detail, depending on the circumstances and type of business. And if you give them to much detail for your circumstance or business it could end up working to your detriment.
> You're correct, the real issue here is documenting the business miles and there has been drivers on this board that have had their logs rejected in mail audits because of lack of detail.
> 
> The business use % of the cell phone is deductible. So if you use it 50% for personal 50% for business than 50% of the cost is deductible.


Yes that's what (s)he said but it still makes no sense to me. As you said we have drivers here who had their deduction rejected due to lack of sufficient documentation so there is absolutely no reason that I can see not to break out the rides and I fail to see how doing this could hurt you in any way.


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## UberTaxPro (Oct 3, 2014)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Yes that's what (s)he said but it still makes no sense to me. As you said we have drivers here who had their deduction rejected due to lack of sufficient documentation so there is absolutely no reason that I can see not to break out the rides and I fail to see how doing this could hurt you in any way.


I'm with you, no one is going to think your ride-share business isn't a ride-share business or that you're trying to mislead someone because you kept an accurate,detailed, and contemporaneous mileage log


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I read you say this several times and it still makes no sense to me. We driver people and get paid for those rides, we then deduct the allowable miles. I'm not sure what more needs to be explained to the auditor. Why would we need to properly explain to the IRS what we do when it appears very obvious? No I believe they know exactly what we do, the only issue here is properly documenting the business miles in a manner that meets all their requirement. And seeing as they have required a breakout for each ride from ride share drivers in the past well that's good enough for me. I have yet to see any reason not to do it. And again by stopping and then starting the app after the drop you are in fact capturing all the dead miles between rides that we are entitled to. I also drive Lyft as most of us do I won't have that breakout from the driver apps.
> 
> By the way I hear you on your comments about the standard business mile deduction offsets any other deductions such as amenities, car washes etc. But it's my understanding that you can claim 1/2 of your cell phone bill as a business expense, with the understanding that the other half is personal. Is this correct?


The simplest answer first, is that the phone is not the car, so it is deductible according to your business use of it. If you have a multi-line plan with a phone you use only for business then you will be able to claim half of your plan's routine costs plus all the insurance premium you pay on the business phone. You can deduct or depreciate (depending on the cost) the entire cost of the business phone, its mount, its case, and screen protector. The personal phone is therefore separated and you wont have to measure off your use categories. Just dont mix them up.

Explaining to an auditor is simpler than it sounds. Do not EVER attend an audit alone. You must actually make yourself clear to your tax preparer. Try deemphasizing your rides. You are like a storekeeper and you have a store you pay rent and utilities on, and you have an inventory of time. You have these expenses. In your case the equivalent is the number of miles you spend when the app is on and you are ready and available to take rides. When a customer enters the store they may buy something and that is a revenue moment. No matter the moment. It is revenue as a result of your store being open. You get revenue as a result of your app being on. If you did not have the app on you would not had gotten the revenue. Report total revenue. Report business and personal miles. Report that you have an accurate record of your business car use. Say less and be more clear. Before an audit prepare with the representative who will go either with or on your behalf. If they have it right going in, it should work out right. And there is always a second chance available.



UberTaxPro said:


> I'm with you, no one is going to think your ride-share business isn't a ride-share business or that you're trying to mislead someone because you kept an accurate,detailed, and contemporaneous mileage log


You are not going to be deceitful in any way . Here is what happened. People selling mileage tracker apps convinced you that you need them. They put the emphasis on rides and they just want you to use the apps. Driver after driver got fooled, and they told their tax people about rides and between rides and all the rest and it is all a bad dream. I had one of those that Doordash sold by a promotion. Thousands of trips over a year were logged and I eventually realized that I had to count when I am searching for orders. My tax knowledge permitted the truth but the ordinary driver is stuck without the truth. Business miles of someone who does merchandising inside stores have to be logged for the trips to the various stores similarly if the stores are in sequence, but the difference is significant. A RS driver has opportunity while in motion and the store merchandiser does not. Your car, with the app on, is your rolling store. It is open for business.

Stop being fooled by the mileage app makers. While they are right that you need records, theirs are not the kind you need.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

LADryver said:


> The simplest answer first, is that the phone is not the car, so it is deductible according to your business use of it. If you have a multi-line plan with a phone you use only for business then you will be able to claim half of your plan's routine costs plus all the insurance premium you pay on the business phone. You can deduct or depreciate (depending on the cost) the entire cost of the business phone, its mount, its case, and screen protector. The personal phone is therefore separated and you wont have to measure off your use categories. Just dont mix them up.
> 
> Explaining to an auditor is simpler than it sounds. Do not EVER attend an audit alone. You must actually make yourself clear to your tax preparer. Try deemphasizing your rides. You are like a storekeeper and you have a store you pay rent and utilities on, and you have an inventory of time. You have these expenses. In your case the equivalent is the number of miles you spend when the app is on and you are ready and available to take rides. When a customer enters the store they may buy something and that is a revenue moment. No matter the moment. It is revenue as a result of your store being open. You get revenue as a result of your app being on. If you did not have the app on you would not had gotten the revenue. Report total revenue. Report business and personal miles. Report that you have an accurate record of your business car use. Say less and be more clear. Before an audit prepare with the representative who will go either with or on your behalf. If they have it right going in, it should work out right. And there is always a second chance available.
> 
> ...


I was not sold by the mileage app companies. I use a free app and was convinced to use it after talking with my tax person and to fellow drivers. I still don't see the logic in not keeping accurate records so I will continue to do so using this app which will provide the ride breakdown so I'll have the auditor require it. I'll report every mile I am entitled to, including the dead miles, and also declare the personal miles. I make sure I use my ride share car on occasion for personal miles because I am aware that if you declare very few personal miles, even with another vehicle which I have, that can flag an audit.

Not sure who I would bring in to an audit, assuming it's in person and not by mail which is much more common to my understanding. My tax person is out of state, she won't be available for a face to face meeting anyway. Not sure I like the idea of paying someone else to represent me for a return that I know will be legit. I'll even declare the cash tips to show I am in compliance.

If everything breaks bad what ks the 2nd chance option you are referring to?


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> I was not sold by the mileage app companies. I use a free app and was convinced to use it after talking with my tax person and to fellow drivers. I still don't see the logic in not keeping accurate records so I will continue to do so using this app which will provide the ride breakdown so I'll have the auditor require it. I'll report every mile I am entitled to, including the dead miles, and also declare the personal miles. I make sure I use my ride share car on occasion for personal miles because I am aware that if you declare very few personal miles, even with another vehicle which I have, that can flag an audit.
> 
> Not sure who I would bring in to an audit, assuming it's in person and not by mail which is much more common to my understanding. My tax person is out of state, she won't be available for a face to face meeting anyway. Not sure I like the idea of paying someone else to represent me for a return that I know will be legit. I'll even declare the cash tips to show I am in compliance.
> 
> If everything breaks bad what ks the 2nd chance option you are referring to?


At the risk of sounding weird I was specifically trained about how to avoid an audit that requires a response. What you are is very confused. Of course you want to be accurate. You are not being "accurate", you are being scared. And free apps to you still make revenue to the people behind it someway. Someday it wont be free to you and you will pay anything for it. Suppose you were able to convince someone that your dead head miles were an ordinary and necessary business expense, one that is responsible for your income. Tell me in your own words what would you say?


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

LADryver said:


> At the risk of sounding weird I was specifically trained about how to avoid an audit that requires a response. What you are is very confused. Of course you want to be accurate. You are not being "accurate", you are being scared. And free apps to you still make revenue to the people behind it someway. Someday it wont be free to you and you will pay anything for it. Suppose you were able to convince someone that your dead head miles were an ordinary and necessary business expense, one that is responsible for your income. Tell me in your own words what would you say?


While I appreciate your training and input here It's very simple. I'd say once I turn on the app and begin accepting rides all the miles driven in between rides are business miles and 100% deductible so I am deducting them, and I have documentation to support my deduction. If I am asked to provide this documentation and get a hard ass auditor who requires the rides on both Uber and Lyft to be broken out well I have a report to show them this. There does not seem to be any debate that these miles in between rides are in fact deductible so I'm still not sure what the issue is here.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

Alright Gentlemen, have we not flogged this particular poor horse enough?:laugh:
Happy Holidays, everyone. :biggrin:


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> While I appreciate your training and input here It's very simple. I'd say once I turn on the app and begin accepting rides all the miles driven in between rides are business miles and 100% deductible so I am deducting them, and I have documentation to support my deduction. If I am asked to provide this documentation and get a hard ass auditor who requires the rides on both Uber and Lyft to be broken out well I have a report to show them this. There does not seem to be any debate that these miles in between rides are in fact deductible so I'm still not sure what the issue is here.


You are right, it is very simple. It is soooo simple. It is as simple as I say it is. But the simple can be made to be too complex. When it is too complex it creates threads like this.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

LADryver said:


> You are right, it is very simple. It is soooo simple. It is as simple as I say it is. But the simple can be made to be too complex. When it is too complex it creates threads like this.


With all due respect you appear to be the one that is making this much more complicated than it needs to be.

Happy holidays my fellow driver.


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## LADryver (Jun 6, 2017)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> With all due respect you appear to be the one that is making this much more complicated than it needs to be.
> 
> Happy holidays my fellow driver.


Tax law is complicated. What you need to know is not. But some people, other than you, have a very hard time realizing it. I am explaining the law and how it applies so that it could be seen for the simple thing it is. Dont insult my good intentions.


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