# Have you ever paid pax for a trip? I did!



## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Paid pax $1.75 to break one long trip to two. One was a minimum fare and the other was for the rest of the trip.
I got a ping at the end of a guarantee hour and the next one was not a guarantee hour. You got it?


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

PDB, but it was two trips anyway... They asked if I'd wait around convenience store I said I don't mind but would rather pick em up again, and hit em back for the fare total (it should have fit in minfare there n back, probably, plus surges were going pretty wild...and they tipped me a Monster Energy)

They actually didn't realize two trips would likely double their minimum fare (good proper pax, fast, in and out of store in 2-3 mins)...but I let em know, and comped em 100% from my tips cash.

no way, no how am I gonna be exploiting the good guys.

...BTW fare total w/ booking fee was higher than the precommission you get displayed at rating time

So you screwed your pax for a few cents


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Also, long trips you can just off-meter the discount...works out nicely cuz they're never quite sure you're gonna do it until they see you follow thru, and suddenly they're all pleasantly surprised.

Just before the app offers em a chance to rate and tip. %)

One thing: make SURE you check if they're surging (via their phone!), before AND after... Cuz if you inadvertently gave yourself a 50% raise, you're just asking to get reported for fraud - of which you can only clear yourself if you admit to cheating in another way


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Adieu said:


> PDB, but it was two trips anyway... They asked if I'd wait around convenience store I said I don't mind but would rather pick em up again, and hit em back for the fare total (it should have fit in minfare there n back, probably, plus surges were going pretty wild...and they tipped me a Monster Energy)
> 
> BTW fare total w/ booking fee was higher than the precommission you get displayed at rating time
> 
> So you screwed your pax for a few cents


You didn't get it man!


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Adieu said:


> Also, long trips you can just off-meter the discount...works out nicely cuz they're never quite sure you're gonna do it until they see you follow thru, and suddenly they're all pleasantly surprised.
> 
> Just before the app offers em a chance to rate and tip. %)
> 
> One thing: make SURE you check if they're they'd surging (via their phone!), before AND after... Cuz if you inadvertently gave yourself a 50% raise, you're just asking to get reported for fraud - of which you can only clear yourself if you admit to cheating in another way


Pax didn't have cash. I asked.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

uberpa post: 949578 said:


> You didn't get it man!


Eh?! *looks around all paranoid*

How you know if I made the numbers that week? OMFG --they-- are watching me, aren't --they--????

***freaks out, floors it, and finds out whether or not his car still has a working speed limit governor...maybe***


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

uberpa said:


> Pax didn't have cash. I asked.


No YOU didnt get it.

End trip a few minutes/blocks/exits early.

If anyone bugs you about it, say customer seemed unhappy w/ something, and you figured customer satisfaction was paramount so you comped em on the spot that way


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## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

But why, "Karl"?


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Contuber said:


> But why, "Karl"?


With the minimum fare at the end of the first hour, I got the guarantee hour.
The second trip was out of guarantee hours, I would do it for cash if the pax had some.
I paid pax $1.75 to cover the $1.55 fee for the second trip which shouldn't exsit.


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## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

I can understand splitting a ride to two. But why would anyone want to stop the meter before the end of a trip?

Besides, I fell like we donate money to pax every time when we take a non-surge request, or take a non-minimal fare during $15/h guarantees.

Last week, I had a guarantee satisfied already, then received another request at x:50, just when I wanted to lyft off. I had to drive to pickup for 3 miles and 7 minutes, I had to take the pax to the airport at base rate, 40 miles and 1 hour round trip, $13, no tips. I think it's a charity.

I also spent 50 unnecessary minutes of non-guarantee time and $6 on gas just to fill other guarantee hours.


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Contuber said:


> I can understand splitting a ride to two. But why would anyone want to stop the meter before the end of a trip?
> 
> Besides, I fell like we donate money to pax every time when we take a non-surge request, or take a non-minimal fare during $15/h guarantees.
> 
> ...


Cash trip or no trip.
I got a request which was a 30 miles trip in a $20 guarantee hour. No way. Negotiated it to a $60 cash trip. I didn't get that guarantee hour though.


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## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

I think they will definitely report it (because they will be upset) and Lyft will ban a driver for a cash trip.

Sometimes I tell them to "get another driver", but I don't like to do it on trips to an airport or train station.


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Contuber said:


> I think they will definitely report it (because they will be upset) and Lyft will ban a driver for a cash trip.
> 
> Sometimes I tell them to "get another driver", but I don't like to do it on trips to an airport or train station.


Report for what! It's a cancelled trip.
Simple answer, "Never met the passenger"!


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Why end early?

To not count out quarters for trip-splitting, or carry em at all? To thank somebody who helped you get both guarantee and fare pay, instead of paying Lyft for the privilege of driving pax, who also pays Lyft while we get sh!t-all and blow the ceiling off the week's main guarantee rate?

Or to shamelessly score a nice tip at the end of second ride.

..Which also works great for peace of mind, since you know they didn't downrate you for screwing around with some weird trickery (might think you're looking to upsurge em on rerequest...or smthn), didn't rat out your lil conspiracy, etc. Cuz $5 tips on Lyft never backstab.

PS it also incentivizes em to agree to your roundabout way of doing things. View it from pax POV, some driver dude wants to drive me to corner store, "end" ride, sit around offline for 2-3 minutes, then have me rerequest an intercity trip? Wtf he playing at, and why should I?!"



Contuber said:


> I can understand splitting a ride to two. But why would anyone want to stop the meter before the end of a trip?
> 
> Besides, I fell like we donate money to pax every time when we take a non-surge request, or take a non-minimal fare during $15/h guarantees.
> 
> ...


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## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

Well... I don't feel obligated to thank a freeloader, basically, who enjoys an extra cheap ride subsidized by Lyft at the moment.

There are some decent people among riders, maybe 1/5 or 1/6. Others are mostly freeloaders or "bye, Felicia" types.

But I understand your case now, thanks for the explanation.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Long trips during guarantees are donations to Lyft/Uber...NOT the pax. They pay in full, we just never get much/any of it (Lyft PDB -does- apply to fare part of guarantee, and seems like AFTER averaging/bonus stuff happens)

But then Lyft covers all hot spots with a "guarantee(d)" low-level surge, to offset guarantee payouts to gamers like us...it only kills demand for minfares and makes pax fund guarantees, instead of marketing budgets/GM/other VC...

Which kind of blows for kids taking a Lyft home to the next county over, just as much as it does for us... And also people with long trips get cancelled on by EVERYBODY, I had like 3 requests over 40 minutes by a neighbor two streets over to give him an Irvine-LBC ride.... Was actually gonna take the 3rd one since no action anyway, but he recancelled immediately before I could text him not to



Contuber said:


> I can understand splitting a ride to two. But why would anyone want to stop the meter before the end of a trip?
> 
> Besides, I fell like we donate money to pax every time when we take a non-surge request, or take a non-minimal fare during $15/h guarantees.
> 
> ...


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## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

Adieu said:


> Long trips during guarantees are donations to Lyft/Uber...NOT the pax. They pay in full...


This new normal "in full" is ridiculously low, like the $13 airport run that I had. Can you imagine a taxi or even a shuttle running 40 miles for $13?

I agree with your other points.

Both Lyft/Uber slashed the rates below minimal wage, made drivers desperate, and spoiled pax. Now they are trying to bribe drivers to participate in their games, but these attempts fail.


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

When you see a non surge long trip, either do it cash or don't do it at all.
I gave the pax the long trip above in app only because he agreed to do a minimum one first for me to get the guarantee and he didn't have any cash with him.


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## Chrysallis (Mar 24, 2016)

never paid pax
had a cute pax who just wanted to go to In N Out drive thru
thought it was funny
thought it was super cool that she insisted i order something
i ended up paying for her food


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## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

You don't drive for Lyft, Fuzzy, do you?


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## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

FuzzyWuzzy said:


> I drive only for Lyft.


And you do understand how guarantees work, don't you?


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

FuzzyWuzzy said:


> Can anyone fill me in on what is so wrong about a long trip during guarantee hours?


I would think the complaint would be something along the lines of:

You signed up for $25/hour guarantee for a 4 hour block. The first 3 hours of which, you were bored, but at least were able to get your 1-ride minimum each hour, earning an average of $5.25/hour for those 3 hours after fares+tips. Then in your 4th hour, early on you get another minimum fare ride for $5+$2 (you think, great, well at least I qualified for the guarantee), then 15 minutes before the end of the hour, you get a request that turns into a $50 fare, passenger tips you another $8.

That 4th hour, while great, has just brought your hourly earnings average to $20.19. Sure, your gross earnings, before expenses, was $80.75; but you really only made good money in hour 4 - and your guarantee payout is now $0.​


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## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

The idea is correct, but the numbers are off.

On my market, it's $15/h, $3 earning from a minimal fare, $13 for 40 miles round trip, and it spills over 50 minutes to the next, non-guarantee hour. No tips at all, of course.


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## andaas (May 19, 2015)

FuzzyWuzzy said:


> In my market each hour is independent of the other. No blocks.


Look at your weekly pay statement. All hours of the same guarantee amount are pooled together (all $20/hours are averaged as one group; all $25/hours are averaged another group, etc.). I doubt Lyft has created a custom guarantee calculation system in Denver.



Contuber said:


> The idea is correct, but the numbers are off.
> 
> On my market, it's $15/h, $3 earning from a minimal fare, $13 for 40 miles round trip, and it spills over 50 minutes to the next, non-guarantee hour. No tips at all, of course.


The numbers used were for example only. Intentionally made larger so it would be easier to understand. I hate messing with pennies (which is what most fares and guarantees earn these days).


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Long trip is definitely a loss on lyft platform if no pt applied.
Did a minimum fare for the guarantee hour plus cash trip for the rest part. You think it's a win, right? Nope. Ended up a place no ping for the rest 2 guarantee hours and had to drive back home empty. Totally failure!


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

FuzzyWuzzy said:


> Can anyone fill me in on what is so wrong about a long trip during guarantee hours?
> 
> Seems to me that either way you make the money during that hour, right?
> 
> So instead of Uber/Lyft drivers being upset about short distance/small fares, now we're upset about long distance fares also????


Well it might make you miss your quota on rides per hour..


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

FuzzyWuzzy said:


> I guess i never notice when i get the guarantees.
> 
> And i'm not sure how it works, cuz i just go out and make as much as money as i can, always.
> 
> ...


Work smarter and harder!
You don't know you drive more miles for the same amount of money, do you?


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Not a lot of pax, no pt of course, that's the market I'm at.
Only with guarantee pay, I can manage to make it more than $1 per mile(includes dead miles). Any number lower than that, you are losing money driving!
My best record was $8/mile so far.


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## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

FuzzyWuzzy said:


> I guess i never notice when i get the guarantees.
> 
> And i'm not sure how it works, cuz i just go out and make as much as money as i can, always.
> 
> ...


Arbeit macht frei. Über on.

You're gonna die historic on the fury road. You are awaited in Valhalla.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Ir's an average of ALL hours with that guarantee that gets bonuses up to guarantee.... Say I did a$67+$6tip OC to USC trip in a block of $20 guarantee hours.... It filled 1 hour with $73 and blew another hour, + ended up out of county for a third hour

If I had 10x $20 hours I planned to work successfully at min rates, I would have had $30 filled, (75% * (200-30=170))=$127.50 bonus, and my PDB20 on the 30 after all this $6.....so $163.50 from $30 in fares / 30-50 mi driven

Now, I suddenly have 8 not 10 hours, Lyft adds in passive primetime averaging 50% making me miss 2 more cause of low demand I have 6 now....$67+$6+(5*4.50)= 73+22.50 = $95.50....6x20=120, 120*0.75= 90 ---- NO guarantee payout, 20 mi driven minfares + 120 mi driven OC-USC-OC, +another 20 cause I really hunted those missed guarantees.... So: 10 hours 160 mi $112 or smthn VS 10 hours $163.50 for 40 mi driven

Minfares guarantees:
$163.50 in 40 mi, lots a radio and vaping in parking lots, relaxed for most of 10 hr's & >$4 / odometer mile

Driven once long range:
$112ish in 160 mi, hassled and stressed half of the 10 hours with nada to show for it... ~$0.77/odometer mile

FIVE times lessper mile,$50 less in pocket, stress and rush hour traffic yo!



FuzzyWuzzy said:


> Can anyone fill me in on what is so wrong about a long trip during guarantee hours?
> 
> Seems to me that either way you make the money during that hour, right?
> 
> So instead of Uber/Lyft drivers being upset about short distance/small fares, now we're upset about long distance fares also????


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

BTW, above was a real comparison of weeks in the last month (from memory, by the general idea is correct)


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## uberpa (Nov 12, 2015)

Adieu said:


> BTW, above was a real comparison of weeks in the last month (from memory, by the general idea is correct)


Honestly speaking, I didn't read the above thoroughly. But I got what you are trying to say. I liked it.


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## Adieu (Feb 21, 2016)

Guarantees minimums: 
$4/ mi, 40mi $163.50 pocketed lots of parking

Guarantees blown by low level PT and 1 big trip:
$0.77/mi, 160mi $112 pocketed, lots of stress


The rest? Details & math for ppl who would call bull on it


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## Lyft_94110 (Nov 16, 2015)

I think everyone would be a lot happier just ignoring "guarantees" and decide whether or not they're OK with the money from fares (and, if Lyft, from tips -- which are, admittedly, negligible). Instead of sweating it with a line of thinking that goes "I did not find a way to game the guarantee, so I got ripped off," just do your gig. Figure out if it works for you. If not, make other life choices.


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## Contuber (Jan 31, 2016)

Uber off if no surge, Lyft off if no guarantee.

Life presents you more tough choices in some circumstances.


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