# Tradegy Uber driver found guilty of running red light in Florida faces a wrongful death suit



## makes_sense (Sep 26, 2014)

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/uber-driver-involved-in-fatal-crash-in-traffic-court


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

makes_sense said:


> http://www.clickorlando.com/news/uber-driver-involved-in-fatal-crash-in-traffic-court


Family of the deceased forgot to name Uber in the wrongful death lawsuit. They only named the Uber driver and the Deputy.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Family of the deceased forgot to name Uber in the wrongful death lawsuit. They only named the Uber driver and the Deputy.


You've seen enough of my post to know I'm not an Uber supporter, but I like your clear-headed thinking, so I ask.

What part did Uber play in this that would bring them into a lawsuit? The driver ran the red light, not Uber, right?


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

phillipzx3 said:


> What part did Uber play in this that would bring them into a lawsuit?


The part that they're worth $60 billion. All seriousness though they paired the pax with the driver. You know some good litigator is going to argue that Uber has no safety practices in place, background checks are weak and place profit above public safety. We all know it's the drivers fault. 
Do you remember years ago an older lady went through a McDonalds drive thru and ordered hot coffee? During her drive she spilled the hot liquid on her hand and in the end received over $2 million from McDonalds. Anyone with common sense knows you don't try and drink scolding coffee in a moving vehicle. Starting, stoping, potholes, turns, dips are just some of the reasons why a reasonable and prudent person would not attempt this. The stupid bi#*h still won out of court. The cups even have in small print "contents contains hot liquid".
When you have assets you become a target for lawsuits. And let's agree, Uber has allot of monetary assets.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

There's more to that McD's hot coffee story. It wasn't a simple as many believe.  

I hope whoever tries to litigate Uber has some deep pockets. They'll need every penny they have....and then some.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

In case you haven't seen it, there is a longer thread in "Miami" about this incident. I too wondered why Uber wasn't named in the suit. But it's obvious that there was a pax on board, so they were in Uber/JR period 3, so how can they not defend their "partner?" 
I'm not a lawyer, and I've never been sued over an accident, but I wonder if an insurance company is ever named. OTOH, I would expect an employer of an involved driver to be so named. Maybe the plaitiff's lawyer knows that Uber is going to pull the "we're just a technology company" defense.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> In case you haven't seen it, there is a longer thread in "Miami" about this incident. I too wondered why Uber wasn't named in the suit. But it's obvious that there was a pax on board, so they were in Uber/JR period 3, so how can they not defend their "partner?"
> I'm not a lawyer, and I've never been sued over an accident, but I wonder if an insurance company is ever named. OTOH, I would expect an employer of an involved driver to be so named. Maybe the plaitiff's lawyer knows that Uber is going to pull the "we're just a technology company" defense.


Uber settled out of court for an undisclosed amount when that San Fran driver killed that little girl in the crosswalk on New Year's Eve 4 years ago. And it wasn't even proven if the driver had the app on. If Uber can make bad publicity go away for a couple million why wouldn't they?


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Uber settled out of court for an undisclosed amount when that San Fran driver killed that little girl in the crosswalk on New Year's Eve 4 years ago. And it wasn't even proven if the driver had the app on. If Uber can make bad publicity go away for a couple million why wouldn't they?


So, do you think Uber paid out of pocket, or JR had to cough it up? That accident was important in the push for the new law that passed in CA requiring TNCs to cover their drivers in all three periods.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> So, do you think Uber paid out of pocket, or JR had to cough it up? That accident was important in the push for the new law that passed in CA requiring TNCs to cover their drivers in all three periods.


Uber definitely paid out of pocket. I think that the accident occurred before JR was Uber's Underwriter. That accident might of been an important factor for rideshare insurance, but not nearly as weighted as all the CA insurance companies telling the commission that they will deny claims if any of their policy holders are operating commercially.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Uber definitely paid out of pocket. I think that the accident occurred before JR was Uber's Underwriter. That accident might of been an important factor for rideshare insurance, but not nearly as weighted as all the CA insurance companies telling the commission that they will deny claims if any of their policy holders are operating commercially.


I was going by a SF Chronical article about the settlement, which said, in part:

"Many reforms of local and state laws followed in the wake of Sofia Liu's death.

Uber initially wrote in a blog post that it was not responsible for Muzzafar's collision because he was using the Uber app to search for a fare, as opposed to carrying an Uber passenger.

Following that claim, a new state law was proposed requiring so-called rideshare drivers and companies have liability insurance coverage during all periods in which drivers use ride-hail applications, including searching for fares.

That law was approved, and went into effect July 1."


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## SpiritualGangster (Oct 6, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> The part that they're worth $60 billion. All seriousness though they paired the pax with the driver. You know some good litigator is going to argue that Uber has no safety practices in place, background checks are weak and place profit above public safety. We all know it's the drivers fault.
> Do you remember years ago an older lady went through a McDonalds drive thru and ordered hot coffee? During her drive she spilled the hot liquid on her hand and in the end received over $2 million from McDonalds. Anyone with common sense knows you don't try and drink scolding coffee in a moving vehicle. Starting, stoping, potholes, turns, dips are just some of the reasons why a reasonable and prudent person would not attempt this. The stupid bi#*h still won out of court. The cups even have in small print "contents contains hot liquid".
> When you have assets you become a target for lawsuits. And let's agree, Uber has allot of monetary assets.


The Mcdonalds workers heated it way pass what their instruction manuals advised, causing 2nd/3rd degree burns to her legs and genitals. Just sayin', bad analogy.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

SpiritualGangster said:


> The Mcdonalds workers heated it way pass what their instruction manuals advised, causing 2nd/3rd degree burns to her legs and genitals. Just sayin', bad analogy.


Wow, never knew you can get 3rd degree burns from water. That sucked for her. But just the location of her burns tells you she was drinking hot coffee while driving and dropped the cup. I never read the whole story, but you're saying that a McDonalds worker took a cup of coffee from the coffee brewer and microwaved it back to boiling? Next will be woman sues makeup company because she poked her eye out putting mascara on while driving and had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting a child in the road.


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## agtg (Jun 8, 2016)

phillipzx3 said:


> You've seen enough of my post to know I'm not an Uber supporter, but I like your clear-headed thinking, so I ask.
> 
> What part did Uber play in this that would bring them into a lawsuit? The driver ran the red light, not Uber, right?


The part where Uber accepts liability for pairing drivers and riders and taking a piece of the action.


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## SpiritualGangster (Oct 6, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Wow, never knew you can get 3rd degree burns from water. That sucked for her. But just the location of her burns tells you she was drinking hot coffee while driving and dropped the cup. I never read the whole story, but you're saying that a McDonalds worker took a cup of coffee from the coffee brewer and microwaved it back to boiling? Next will be woman sues makeup company because she poked her eye out putting mascara on while driving and had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting a child in the road.


They heated the coffee somewhere near 200 degrees Fahrenheit always early in the morning. It was a common practice at that store to save time not having to reheat coffee again when customers started rolling around hours later. She had the unfortunate luck of showing up early and buying it at max temperature. It's negligence from the top down @ that Mcdonalds that won her the case.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

SpiritualGangster said:


> They heated the coffee somewhere near 200 degrees Fahrenheit always early in the morning. It was a common practice at that store to save time not having to reheat coffee again when customers started rolling around hours later. She had the unfortunate luck of showing up early and buying it at max temperature. It's negligence from the top down @ that Mcdonalds that won her the case.


I know, thank you for the info. I just hate that people place blame on others. I wouldn't preheat my oven to 400 degrees then put my hand on one of the oven racks to see if it was hot. And I wouldn't drink a gallon of habanero sauce to see if it's spicy. Common sense should take precedence. A grown person knows that boiling water needs to filter through coffee grounds to make a cup of coffee. So there's a chance that the coffee could be just under 212 degrees. It's just sad how we've stop taking responsibility for our own actions. The smoking of cigarettes kills me. I have willingly inhaled smoke for 35 years and now I want to sue the tobacco companies for lung disease. I have eaten five Big Macs and 3 large fries everyday and now I wonder why I'm obese.


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## SpiritualGangster (Oct 6, 2016)

My point is, it's easy to sue, but contrary to popular belief, its hard as **** to win, else we'd all be doing it right?


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## BEXi (Oct 25, 2016)

Ive been a barista for years. Coffee should NEVER get to the point where its hot enough to cause 2nd/3rd degree burns. Never. EVER. That is negligence on behalf of McDonalds and their employees. I don't like when people bring up that old womans story. She deserved that settlement.


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## UTX1 (Dec 7, 2015)

Oh heavens, I suddenly want some hot coffee now !


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

UTX1 said:


> Oh heavens, I suddenly want some hot coffee now !


We at McDonalds are committed to providing our customers with the safest experience possible. McDonalds is now introducing non spill coffee sippie cups with your favorite McDonalds character on them. We know how the fast paced hectic life has put a damper on your time. Taking the time to enjoy a cup of hot coffee has now taken a back seat to rush rush rush. Now you can throw your scolding hot coffee at your screaming child in the back seat and never lose a drop. Due to the high cost of these cups and a bogus payoff McDonalds regrets to inform you that each cup of coffee will now cost $7.99 with no free refills. Just another way of "I'm Lovin It".


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## UTX1 (Dec 7, 2015)

$7.99 ? 
_
ba_-_da_-_ba_-_ba_-_bah_... I'm hating it ! 

I'm crazy..... I don't hate anything.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> caff or decaf?


Shouldn't that be calf or decalf?


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## UTX1 (Dec 7, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> caff or decaf?


caff if I'm drinking it. if i'm gonna spill it in my lap it should be decaf...
why ? 'cause otherwise 'little johnny' will be up all night


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> The part that they're worth $60 billion. All seriousness though they paired the pax with the driver. You know some good litigator is going to argue that Uber has no safety practices in place, background checks are weak and place profit above public safety. We all know it's the drivers fault.
> Do you remember years ago an older lady went through a McDonalds drive thru and ordered hot coffee? During her drive she spilled the hot liquid on her hand and in the end received over $2 million from McDonalds. Anyone with common sense knows you don't try and drink scolding coffee in a moving vehicle. Starting, stoping, potholes, turns, dips are just some of the reasons why a reasonable and prudent person would not attempt this. The stupid bi#*h still won out of court. The cups even have in small print "contents contains hot liquid".
> When you have assets you become a target for lawsuits. And let's agree, Uber has allot of monetary assets.


They appealed and all she ended up getting was the legal fees.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

2Cents said:


> They appealed and all she ended up getting was the legal fees.


Actually both sides appealed the $640k allowed by the court, but then settled out of court for an amount under $600k. So she got more than just legal fees.


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

Sure


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

2Cents said:


> Sure


Lawyers typically get around a third of an award or settlement. You can read it for yourself, but the highlights are in these paragraphs I took out of the case history.

A twelve-person jury reached its verdict on August 18, 1994.[16] Applying the principles of comparative negligence, the juryfound that McDonald's was 80% responsible for the incident and Liebeck was 20% at fault. Though there was a warning on the coffee cup, the jury decided that the warning was neither large enough nor sufficient. They awarded Liebeck US$200,000 in compensatory damages, which was then reduced by 20% to $160,000. In addition, they awarded her $2.7 million in punitive damages. The jurors apparently arrived at this figure from Morgan's suggestion to penalize McDonald's for one or two days' worth of coffee revenues, which were about $1.35 million per day.[2] The judge reduced punitive damages to $480,000, three times the compensatory amount, for a total of $640,000. The decision was appealed by both McDonald's and Liebeck in December 1994, but the parties settled out of court for an undisclosed amount less than $600,000.[18]


*Aftermath*

Liebeck died on August 5, 2004, at age 91.[24] According to her daughter, "the burns and court proceedings (had taken) their toll" and in the years following the settlement Liebeck had "no quality of life", and that the settlement had paid for a live-in nurse.[25]


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## 2Cents (Jul 18, 2016)

How sad.
May she RIP


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> The part that they're worth $60 billion. All seriousness though they paired the pax with the driver. You know some good litigator is going to argue that Uber has no safety practices in place, background checks are weak and place profit above public safety. We all know it's the drivers fault.
> Do you remember years ago an older lady went through a McDonalds drive thru and ordered hot coffee? During her drive she spilled the hot liquid on her hand and in the end received over $2 million from McDonalds. Anyone with common sense knows you don't try and drink scolding coffee in a moving vehicle. Starting, stoping, potholes, turns, dips are just some of the reasons why a reasonable and prudent person would not attempt this. The stupid bi#*h still won out of court. The cups even have in small print "contents contains hot liquid".
> When you have assets you become a target for lawsuits. And let's agree, Uber has allot of monetary assets.


Actually, she was a passenger, and the driver parked so that she could add cream and sugar. She put the cup between her thighs to pull off the lid, and that's when the spill happened. The cup already had the hot liquid warning on it at the time.
I'm not taking sides, even though I don't like McDonald's coffee, but I found the case history interesting.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

Older Chauffeur said:


> Actually, she was a passenger, and the driver parked so that she could add cream and sugar. She put the cup between her thighs to pull off the lid, and that's when the spill happened. The cup already had the hot liquid warning on it at the time.
> I'm not taking sides, even though I don't like McDonald's coffee, but I found the case history interesting.


Good thing she didn't put the cup in a car seat with a baby present. Common sense 101 will instruct you to place the object on a solid surface such as the dashboard or the center console. 
I had a similar incident when I was on the top rung of a ladder and tried to open a can of paint. Not really, but that's a similar situation. I sometimes just don't understand the thinking or reasoning of some people.


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## Older Chauffeur (Oct 16, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Good thing she didn't put the cup in a car seat with a baby present. Common sense 101 will instruct you to place the object on a solid surface such as the dashboard or the center console.
> I had a similar incident when I was on the top rung of a ladder and tried to open a can of paint. Not really, but that's a similar situation. I sometimes just don't understand the thinking or reasoning of some people.


Well, one would hope she learned that lesson. OTOH, you know the saying about old dogs and new tricks......


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## uberfraud (Sep 22, 2016)

What is it with spelling errors and uber drivers?


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## The Mollusk (Feb 13, 2016)

uberfraud said:


> What is it with spelling errors and uber drivers?


It's the phone, the size of your fat fingers , auto correct and the fact that many of them are typing while at red lights / driving.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

uberfraud said:


> What is it with spelling errors and uber drivers?


Spelling does seem to be a head scratcher for most uber drivers. Oops, I meant to spell Uber correctly.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Wow, never knew you can get 3rd degree burns from water. That sucked for her. But just the location of her burns tells you she was drinking hot coffee while driving and dropped the cup. I never read the whole story, but you're saying that a McDonalds worker took a cup of coffee from the coffee brewer and microwaved it back to boiling? Next will be woman sues makeup company because she poked her eye out putting mascara on while driving and had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting a child in the road.


You really need to bone up on what happened.  She was a passenger.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> The part that they're worth $60 billion. All seriousness though they paired the pax with the driver. You know some good litigator is going to argue that Uber has no safety practices in place, background checks are weak and place profit above public safety. We all know it's the drivers fault.
> Do you remember years ago an older lady went through a McDonalds drive thru and ordered hot coffee? During her drive she spilled the hot liquid on her hand and in the end received over $2 million from McDonalds. Anyone with common sense knows you don't try and drink scolding coffee in a moving vehicle. Starting, stoping, potholes, turns, dips are just some of the reasons why a reasonable and prudent person would not attempt this. The stupid bi#*h still won out of court. The cups even have in small print "contents contains hot liquid".
> When you have assets you become a target for lawsuits. And let's agree, Uber has allot of monetary assets.


The small print you speak of was made bigger on the cups after the lawsuit, in response to it. Wasn't really legible before to anyone over 40.

The woman was elderly, had never sued anyone before, and was severely burnt. Old people have thin skin and don't heal well.

I think at first she just wanted them to pay her medical bills. But they refused, hence the lawsuit.


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## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

phillipzx3 said:


> You really need to bone up on what happened.  She was a passenger.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants


I stopped reading after New Mexico jury awards 79 year old woman $2.?? million after "*she accidentally spills hot coffee on herself"*
Old Chauffeur filled me in with the specifics.

Next we'll read mom sues Chevrolet after son loses control of Corvette going 162 mph while drag racing. And the arguments in that case will be that Chevrolet purposely engineered the vehicle to drive too fast. Can't wait to read the one of family sues iPhone maker Apple as daughter jay walks into busy intersection while playing Pokemon and dies. And the arguments in that case will be that Apple made the new iPhone so intriguing.
The point is for my last 8 posts in this thread is that we look to place blame in others for our own misdoings.


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## phillipzx3 (May 26, 2015)

Cessna (and other aircraft manufacturers )were sued because they didn't have a second engine (on single engine aircraft) or larger fuel tanks, "causing" a pilot to run out of fuel or crash because of no second engine (forget the fact most, if not all, twin-engine aircraft can't maintain altitude on a single engine).

Never mentioned was flying over a mountain range in a single engined aircraft, or not landing and topping off your fuel is asking for Murphy to remove you from the human gene pool.


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