# Income per mile, not per hour



## FTLIMITED (Oct 19, 2017)

Hi everyone, 
I read many posts here and I many drivers are bummed/depressed/upset about their per hour income from driving with Uber, well I have a fact for you all, you are not an hourly employee, you are an independent contractor paid per mile and per minute of time, you are taking a Pax. Learn to think smarter and you will understand what I mean. I will explain now. After I work a shift (usually 6-8 hours) I do not convert my earnings to a per hour wage, I instead look at it this way. How many miles did I drive during the shift with my app on and actively looking for a trip versus the income I made on the app (and only on the app. - I don't include tips). The IRS Standard deduction for business miles last year was 0.535 cents/mile (roughly 0.54 cents/mile), so that is how I gauge whether I made a profit. As long as I am earning about > or = to $1 per mile by the end of my shift, I am happy. Let's say, I drive 100 miles in 8 hours and I earn $123.50 in the uber app off trips, that is a profit for me as I have made more than the Std deduction. 

Now, if you 'cherry pick' your trips with only taking a minimum surge price you can improve your per mile earnings.


----------



## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

FTLIMITED said:


> well I have a fact for you all, you are not an hourly employee, you are an independent contractor paid per mile and per minute of time,












_*mind blown*_


----------



## Awesomeness101 (Jul 19, 2017)

Cableguynoe said:


> View attachment 171822
> 
> 
> _*mind blown*_


Big if true


----------



## saucy05 (Aug 23, 2015)

If I drive a 2.5x for 5 miles that would look great for the $ per mile calculation. But if that is all I got for my whole shift then I'm not making money.

You seem to forget that time is valuable to people. Economists call this opportunity cost. Money I'm losing by allocating my time and energy on a particular thing when I could be doing something else.

The best indicator of a driver's performance should be: ( revenue - cost ) / time


----------



## FTLIMITED (Oct 19, 2017)

saucy05 said:


> If I drive a 2.5x for 5 miles that would look great for the $ per mile calculation. But if that is all I got for my whole shift then I'm not making money.
> 
> You seem to forget that time is valuable to people. Economists call this opportunity cost. Money I'm losing by allocating my time and energy on a particular thing when I could be doing something else.
> 
> The best indicator of a driver's performance should be: ( revenue - cost ) / time


Well, saucy05, unfortunately, that is not how the IRS looks at it and that is what matters in the end. I look at how much I can deduct from my earnings to reduce my taxable income.


----------



## CvilleUber (Aug 29, 2016)

FTLIMITED said:


> Well, saucy05, unfortunately, that is not how the IRS looks at it and that is what matters in the end. I look at how much I can deduct from my earnings to reduce my taxable income.


The IRS doesn't give a rat's ass if I make my mortgage payment. They just want their cut.

What you are doing in looking at $/mi is evaluating if your CAR's time was worth it - are you devaluing it or are you making money.

*YOU* are wasting your time if all you care about is miles - you care about money in your pocket at the end of the day (not much or how little the IRS took).


----------



## Over/Uber (Jan 2, 2017)

It has to be both/and. You can be as efficient as you want ($/mile) and still not pay your bills.


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

It is better to drive 20 miles in an hour at a $0.60 profit per mile than 5 miles in an hour at a $2 profit per mile.

Total profit per hour is all that really matters.

$/mile just needs to be above $0 in order to make a profit. How much above 0 doesn't really matter, only that your total (miles)*($/mile) is the highest combination possible.

You can maximize income per mile by *WAITING* for passengers. Based on your criteria, waiting is always the best, no matter how low the wait value is. Because waiting is zero miles, but pays out in money. If you waited an hour for a pax to give him a 1 mile trip, and your pay is 5 cents a minute, that's $3 you made with no driving. Add on an extra $1 for the mile you drove, that's $4 per mile! Pretty awesome, right?


----------



## negeorgia (Feb 1, 2015)

I go 1 step further. Are you happy with earnings per hour, mile and/or trip?


----------



## unPat (Jul 20, 2016)

FTLIMITED said:


> Hi everyone,
> I read many posts here and I many drivers are bummed/depressed/upset about their per hour income from driving with Uber, well I have a fact for you all, you are not an hourly employee, you are an independent contractor paid per mile and per minute of time, you are taking a Pax. Learn to think smarter and you will understand what I mean. I will explain now. After I work a shift (usually 6-8 hours) I do not convert my earnings to a per hour wage, I instead look at it this way. How many miles did I drive during the shift with my app on and actively looking for a trip versus the income I made on the app (and only on the app. - I don't include tips). The IRS Standard deduction for business miles last year was 0.535 cents/mile (roughly 0.54 cents/mile), so that is how I gauge whether I made a profit. As long as I am earning about > or = to $1 per mile by the end of my shift, I am happy. Let's say, I drive 100 miles in 8 hours and I earn $123.50 in the uber app off trips, that is a profit for me as I have made more than the Std deduction.
> 
> Now, if you 'cherry pick' your trips with only taking a minimum surge price you can improve your per mile earnings.


Where were you all this time Genius ?


----------



## Oscar Levant (Aug 15, 2014)

FTLIMITED said:


> Hi everyone,
> I read many posts here and I many drivers are bummed/depressed/upset about their per hour income from driving with Uber, well I have a fact for you all, you are not an hourly employee, you are an independent contractor paid per mile and per minute of time, you are taking a Pax. Learn to think smarter and you will understand what I mean. I will explain now. After I work a shift (usually 6-8 hours) I do not convert my earnings to a per hour wage, I instead look at it this way. How many miles did I drive during the shift with my app on and actively looking for a trip versus the income I made on the app (and only on the app. - I don't include tips). The IRS Standard deduction for business miles last year was 0.535 cents/mile (roughly 0.54 cents/mile), so that is how I gauge whether I made a profit. As long as I am earning about > or = to $1 per mile by the end of my shift, I am happy. Let's say, I drive 100 miles in 8 hours and I earn $123.50 in the uber app off trips, that is a profit for me as I have made more than the Std deduction.
> 
> Now, if you 'cherry pick' your trips with only taking a minimum surge price you can improve your per mile earnings.


Both stats are useful, don't ignore either.

In my 10 years of driving taxi, I found that cherry picking makes me less, at the end of the week, than when I just take everything that comes my way. If you work the airport, cherry picking does make sense ( as in not accepting non-airport trips, given that the average airport trip is longer than a non-airport trip, but you dont do as many in a 10 hour shift ).


----------



## bigdaddybondo (Oct 10, 2017)

I work weekday mornings only, typically about 0530-about 0930. I always make about $100+. Some days better than others and of course some worse. I do not "Cherry Pick" and on a whole take everything and anything, while trying to stop and wait when I can ( can be difficult in parts of Boston ). Also, I almost always get 6 CTB's. I tend to run both APPs outside of 7-9. For me its all about $/m. The only reason its a side hustle for me, If it was a fulltime thing, then I think I would rely on hourly rate a little more.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

If you look at Orlando’s per mile rate it’s even more abysmal than the per hour figure of $7-10 per hour.


----------



## RedANT (Aug 9, 2016)

FTLIMITED said:


> Well, saucy05, unfortunately, that is not how the IRS looks at it and that is what matters in the end. I look at how much I can deduct from my earnings to reduce my taxable income.


Are you the IRS? Do you really care about how far you drive, or do you care more about how much money is direct deposited into your account?

My deductible income is exceeded by my taxable income, but that's how business works.


----------



## Aerodrifting (Aug 13, 2017)

SMH, Another one who likes to talk down to others over the internet to establish your own superiority because you can not find it otherwise ...

Don't look at hourly income? So I assume if you get only one single surge ride that went 4 miles and pays $3 per mile out of an 8 hour shift, You will be contented despite the fact you only made [$3 x 4 + $4 (from time, let's just be generous here)] / 8 = $2 / hr?

Maybe your time is only worth $2/hr or completely worthless in your opinion, But that does not mean other people's time is worthless.


----------



## Norman Cooley (Feb 10, 2018)

Don't look at hourly income...?


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

RedANT said:


> Are you the IRS? Do you really care about how far you drive, or do you care more about how much money is direct deposited into your account?
> 
> My deductible income is exceeded by my taxable income, but that's how business works.


Looking only at how much is deposited is short sighted. If one doesn't know their expenses to create the gross income, its impossible to determine a net income. One's account may increase by $100. But if the driving costs were $200, did you make $100 or did you lose $100?

Stating a gross income is meaningless, it could be a net loss. This is a business. Uber has a gross income in billions. That is a high hourly rate. They lost money.


----------



## RedANT (Aug 9, 2016)

bsliv said:


> Looking only at how much is deposited is short sighted. If one doesn't know their expenses to create the gross income, its impossible to determine a net income. One's account may increase by $100. But if the driving costs were $200, did you make $100 or did you lose $100?
> 
> Stating a gross income is meaningless, it could be a net loss. This is a business. Uber has a gross income in billions. That is a high hourly rate. They lost money.


* Yesterday I grossed $221.77 in 8.75 hrs
* During that shift I drove 173 miles
* After my shift I spent $15 to top off my gas tank

By my calculations I made $221.77 - $15.00 / 8.75 = $23.63 /hr Net ($206.77)

By your calculations I made $221.77 - $15 - (173 * .535) = $114.22

Personally speaking, I only care about the $206.77 Net that was deposited into my account. If you want to obsess about IRS deductions, that's up to you.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

RedANT said:


> * Yesterday I grossed $221.77 in 8.75 hrs
> * During that shift I drove 173 miles
> * After my shift I spent $15 to top off my gas tank
> 
> ...


I hope your car doesn't cost you $0.535 to drive a mile. If it does, then you netted $129.22.

If you don't know what it costs you to drive rideshare, you should find out. Its more than gas.


----------



## unPat (Jul 20, 2016)

RedANT said:


> * Yesterday I grossed $221.77 in 8.75 hrs
> * During that shift I drove 173 miles
> * After my shift I spent $15 to top off my gas tank
> 
> ...


Pictures or it didn't happen.


----------



## RedANT (Aug 9, 2016)

bsliv said:


> I hope your car doesn't cost you $0.535 to drive a mile. If it does, then you netted $129.22.
> 
> If you don't know what it costs you to drive rideshare, you should find out. Its more than gas.


Tell me, what additional expenses should I add to my calculations? 


unPat said:


> Pictures or it didn't happen.


LOL. Let me guess, you think that everyone makes the same bullshit wages as drivers in Orlando? I have a home in metro Orlando, but only a damn fool would try to drive for Uber there.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

RedANT said:


> Tell me, what additional expenses should I add to my calculations?


Licensing, insurance, finance costs, depreciation, maintenance, expected repairs, expected tickets, and any other costs that wouldn't have been incurred if not for rideshare.

Edumunds True Cost to Own calculator can fill in some estimations.


----------



## RedANT (Aug 9, 2016)

bsliv said:


> Licensing, insurance, finance costs, depreciation, maintenance, expected repairs, expected tickets, and any other costs that wouldn't have been incurred if not for rideshare.
> 
> Edumunds True Cost to Own calculator can fill in some estimations.


Licensing - $150 /year.
Insurance cost - $552 /year for business vehicle
Finance cost - (0% interest rate)
Maintenance - Oil and filter changes were included in purchase. 
Expected repairs - None anticipated anytime soon.
Expected tickets - My last ticket was 31 years ago. None are currently anticipated.

So we're at ~$702 /yr (~$2 /day)

I anticipate driving the car for 3 years, then replacing it with something else. At that point I should owe ~$6k on it, some of which will be offset by resale of the vehicle. If you're worried about those expenses, then maybe you should play it safe and seek a W2 job.


----------



## Mista T (Aug 16, 2017)

Try this:

Turn on app.

Sit there for an hour, giving zero rides.

Get a ping, drive 2.5 miles, pickup, drive 2.5 miles to drop off. Make $5 (I am being generous with the $5 number).

Sit there for another 50 minutes with no rides.

Get another ping, drive a mile to pickup, drive 4 miles to drop off. With a fat tip, get $10. Woo hoo!

Then sit another 50 minutes with no pings.

Now you have spent three hours to make $15, but your $/mile looks great!

Try doing that over and over, THEN tell me how $/mile is a better measure than $/hour.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

RedANT said:


> Licensing - $150 /year.
> Insurance cost - $552 /year for business vehicle
> Finance cost - (0% interest rate)
> Maintenance - Oil and filter changes were included in purchase.
> ...


Why don't you let us know what car you use? Did you buy the car for rideshare? Would you have bought it if not for rideshare? How many miles will you drive in a year?

Maintenance is more than oil and filter change. Check your owner's manual. For instance: Every 7500 miles in normal conditions, Honda calls for an oil & filter change, inspect brakes, rotate tires, inspect tie rod ends, steering gearbox and boots, inspect suspension components, and inspect driveshaft boots. Every 15,000 miles in normal conditions, Honda calls for the 7500 mile service plus replace air cleaner element, check parking brake adjustment, lubricate all hinges, locks and latches, and clean the antenna mast. Tires, brakes, battery, etc. all require maintenance and that is a cost. Even if you prepaid it, its still a cost to drive.

No one expects a repair. Repair shops are busy, though. Some cars are more reliable than others. Some manufactures charge more for prices. I suggest using Edmunds TCO to calculate expected repairs.

No one expects a ticket. Tickets happen. 31 years? Maybe you're overdue. Maybe your driving more miles and more hours now than in the past. Maybe you take your eyes off the road more often now than in the past.

If you know how much you paid for the car, how much you'll sell the car for, and how many miles you will drive it, depreciation is easy to calculate.

I don't worry about your expenses. I know my expenses. If you don't know your expenses, you should worry. I haven't received a W2 in > 30 years. I don't plan on starting now, thanks anyway.


----------



## unPat (Jul 20, 2016)

RedANT said:


> Tell me, what additional expenses should I add to my calculations?
> 
> LOL. Let me guess, you think that everyone makes the same bullshit wages as drivers in Orlando? I have a home in metro Orlando, but only a damn fool would try to drive for Uber there.


That's such a pity. Orlando drivers make more than you made on Friday's.


----------



## RedANT (Aug 9, 2016)

unPat said:


> That's such a pity. Orlando drivers make more than you made on Friday's.


That's awesome!


----------



## Norman Cooley (Feb 10, 2018)

bsliv said:


> I hope your car doesn't cost you $0.535 to drive a mile. If it does, then you netted $129.22.
> 
> If you don't know what it costs you to drive rideshare, you should find out. Its more than gas.


Exactly. It's hard to factor in the wear and tear on you vehicle but that is part of what eats at your net. For starters you need to calculate tires and tune ups, oil change , car wash fee's if you use one, then the devaluation of your vehicle because of the high miles and damaged seat belts door knobs, scratches and more. Most Uber/lyft drivers don't factor in maintenance.



Cableguynoe said:


> View attachment 171822
> 
> 
> _*mind blown*_


Well I have a fact for you....the government doesn't see you as a subcontractor unless you work for 3 or more people which is why Uber and lyft offered to pay you 25.00 last year for the names of other companies you work for......so they could say " SEE THEY DON"T JUST WORK FOR US" There is a third company that has sprung up called wings....most likely another knock off of Uber

It's why Uber came out with Lyft because states very in regulations.....if you think Lyft is another company than your right......but it's really not its a shadow company for Uber to make sure you stay a subcontractor and they don't have to pay taxes , SS, Health Insurance....In reality none of you are really business people. Here's why

Most of you don't really have a business license.
Most of or all of you don't have business cards
You don't have control over any of your runs.....If you turn down the run they discipline by downgrading your score. Uber has the control
They don't show you the complete trip before you except. Like the final destination, total passengers, total fee's paid to you prior to excepting the run. 
Most of you only work for Uber, or Lyft....and even if you work for both your still working for one. And if you think they aren't reading these posts then your wrong, which is why I won't say how i know and could prove they are the same company. Some of you probably already know.



Mista T said:


> Try this:
> 
> Turn on app.
> 
> ...


That's why it should be a 5.00 minimum net paid to the driver....not 5.00 dollars and then they take their perc


----------



## Johnny Drives (Nov 27, 2016)

FTLIMITED said:


> Hi everyone,
> I read many posts here and I many drivers are bummed/depressed/upset about their per hour income from driving with Uber, well I have a fact for you all, you are not an hourly employee, you are an independent contractor paid per mile and per minute of time, you are taking a Pax. Learn to think smarter and you will understand what I mean. I will explain now. After I work a shift (usually 6-8 hours) I do not convert my earnings to a per hour wage, I instead look at it this way. How many miles did I drive during the shift with my app on and actively looking for a trip versus the income I made on the app (and only on the app. - I don't include tips). The IRS Standard deduction for business miles last year was 0.535 cents/mile (roughly 0.54 cents/mile), so that is how I gauge whether I made a profit. As long as I am earning about > or = to $1 per mile by the end of my shift, I am happy. Let's say, I drive 100 miles in 8 hours and I earn $123.50 in the uber app off trips, that is a profit for me as I have made more than the Std deduction.
> 
> Now, if you 'cherry pick' your trips with only taking a minimum surge price you can improve your per mile earnings.


In the Detroit area Market, doing both Uber and Lyft, I tend to average between $14-18 bucks for every hour I'm out actually "doing" the Rideshare business before any kind of tax deductions. I drive about 7 hours a day, 6 days per week (42 hours per week).

Obviously, some days are higher when it's surging or bad weather etc, but that's my basic average. But, with the amount of miles I drive (170-220/day), it ends up being declared all the loss the end of the year because of the IRS .54 cent mileage deduction.

JD


----------



## Cableguynoe (Feb 14, 2017)

Norman Cooley said:


> It's why Uber came out with Lyft because states very in regulations.....if you think Lyft is another company than your right......but it's really not its a shadow company for Uber to make sure you stay a subcontractor and they don't have to pay taxes , SS, Health Insurance....In reality none of you are really business people.


So if someone drives only for Uber then your whole argument is crap.


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

FTLIMITED said:


> you are not an hourly employee, you are an independent contractor paid per minute of time.


So if I contract for 60 minutes can I call myself an hourly independent contractor?


----------



## jaxgatorz (Jan 29, 2017)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> So if I contract for 60 minutes can I call myself an hourly independent contractor?


Better known as a HIC


----------



## SEAL Team 5 (Dec 19, 2015)

jaxgatorz said:


> Better known as a HIC


Huh? I thought that this was a HICK?









Oh, my bad. You said HIC. Sorry about that.



bsliv said:


> expected tickets.


I remember when I first started driving and was filling out my commercial insurance application. One of the questions was "How many traffic citations do you expect to incur this year?" I lied and wrote 2 when I know full well that I usually get at least 8 speeding, 5 failure to yield and 2 DUI every year.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

SEAL Team 5 said:


> Huh? I thought that this was a HICK?
> View attachment 204073
> 
> 
> ...


Even when I go hundreds of miles from civilization, there they are, 2 NHP.









Less than 2.5 minutes before they made themselves known, I was pretending to be an Earnhardt.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

I beleive red ant's numbers 100%

I totally beleive they live in a market that pays 100% more per mile than the one i live in does...

That's all there is to it and all that is nesisary to pull off those numbers...

Just be warned bro.. Orlando's rates used to be HIGHER than what you are currently getting, your future could be Orlando bad...


----------



## ShinyAndChrome (Aug 18, 2017)

FTLIMITED said:


> Hi everyone,
> I read many posts here and I many drivers are bummed/depressed/upset about their per hour income from driving with Uber, well I have a fact for you all, you are not an hourly employee, you are an independent contractor paid per mile and per minute of time, you are taking a Pax. Learn to think smarter and you will understand what I mean. I will explain now. After I work a shift (usually 6-8 hours) I do not convert my earnings to a per hour wage, I instead look at it this way. How many miles did I drive during the shift with my app on and actively looking for a trip versus the income I made on the app (and only on the app. - I don't include tips). The IRS Standard deduction for business miles last year was 0.535 cents/mile (roughly 0.54 cents/mile), so that is how I gauge whether I made a profit. As long as I am earning about > or = to $1 per mile by the end of my shift, I am happy. Let's say, I drive 100 miles in 8 hours and I earn $123.50 in the uber app off trips, that is a profit for me as I have made more than the Std deduction.
> 
> Now, if you 'cherry pick' your trips with only taking a minimum surge price you can improve your per mile earnings.


I calc my per hour by taking the uber income, deducting the cost to operate my vehicle, figure the take home after whatever small taxes IRS takes (most miles are deducted) and I figure the per hour that way. And it's generally too low to bother with, which is why I don't drive now.


----------



## ncnealncn (Feb 15, 2018)

I don't care how much I make in a minute, hour, or day. I do it for fun.

No one ever said.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Mears Troll Number 4 said:


> I beleive red ant's numbers 100%


Do you believe this is the correct way to determine net income?

* Yesterday I grossed $221.77 in 8.75 hrs
* During that shift I drove 173 miles
* After my shift I spent $15 to top off my gas tank

By my calculations I made $221.77 - $15.00 / 8.75 = $23.63 /hr Net ($206.77)

It seems to me that depreciation, maintenance, repairs, etc. should be included as expenses to determine net income.


----------



## Mars Troll Number 4 (Oct 30, 2015)

bsliv said:


> Do you believe this is the correct way to determine net income?
> 
> * Yesterday I grossed $221.77 in 8.75 hrs
> * During that shift I drove 173 miles
> ...


I beleive that she has profit and revenue confused...

But i beleive that' really her gross.


----------

