# Congrats CA. you just blew it



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Ok CA. you won but you lost.
There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
Nice job CA. 
I hope you have tons of money to provide UI for all those out of work drivers.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

California legislation might be misguided, but if drivers get paid more _and_ Uber/Lyft fail, long-term that's a win-win. Even if costs go up for customers, that's probably what it costs to drive people around for money and ensure fair pay. Look at what gas costs in California. Look at what the GDP is. People in the state probably should be paying drivers more, even if Uber can't manage to do it with their business model.

The way that California is getting there is going to be messy and cause a lot of suffering. _That_ is the lamentable thing.

However, there are still paths forward that don't involve Uber exiting the state or turning drivers into employees. Don't count Uber out yet.

It's possible for California to be poorly governed at the same time as it's possible for the current incarnation of Uber to be poorly suited for the state's transportation needs. At this point we don't know how it will shake out.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> California legislation might be misguided, but if drivers get paid more _and_ Uber/Lyft fail, long-term that's a win-win. Even if costs go up for customers, that's probably what it costs to drive people around for money and ensure fair pay. Look at what gas costs in California. Look at what the GDP is. People in the state probably should be paying drivers more, even if Uber can't manage to do it with their business model.
> 
> The way that California is getting there is going to be messy and cause a lot of suffering. _That_ is the lamentable thing.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the reply you bring up a lot of good points.
I see things from an outsider and to be honest I hope I am wrong and it does work out for the drivers.
As someone who has been in the trenches for 4 years I just don't see how it can work as proposed.


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## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> I just don't see how it can work as proposed.


I have no idea, either. It's hitting Uber and Lyft at a low moment - can you imagine what their investors think right now? &#128517;


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.


yes, says somebody outside of calif? Hum. The fact is, U/L won't hire all active drivers. Many don't seem to grasp that. Many seem to feel the pay will increase and there will be benefits and nothing else will change. Those folks need a whup upside their noggins.

Unless a supreme court gets involved, like now, most likely U/L will cease operations for some period of time to 'prepare'. U/L right this second have but a single path, to make 'some' employees. There is no 3rd option.

And those few who wanted this, they will be in for a big surprise. There is a reason you need to be careful what you wish for.......


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


So you would rather have the person who is doing all the work get ripped off by Uber and Lyft?

The only reason why Uber/Lyft is popular is because cheap ass passengers refuse to pay what's really needed or a proper Transportation company.

In my market it's a $0.70 difference between Uber and a real taxi company. That's $0.70 that you would normally pay will be the maintenance and upkeep for the vehicles. But instead Uber and Lyft has decided to put it all on the driver and not charge the passenger who's using the service in the first place.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> I have no idea, either. It's hitting Uber and Lyft at a low moment - can you imagine what their investors think right now? &#128517;


Very true and sincerely speaking I don't think there is a single person who feels sorry for them. Karma is a *****.



W00dbutcher said:


> So you would rather have the person who is doing all the work get ripped off by Uber and Lyft?
> 
> The only reason why Uber/Lyft is popular is because cheap ass passengers refuse to pay what's really needed or a proper Transportation company.
> 
> In my market it's a $0.70 difference between Uber and a real taxi company. That's $0.70 that you would normally pay will be the maintenance and upkeep for the vehicles. But instead Uber and Lyft has decided to put it all on the driver and not charge the passenger who's using the service in the first place.


Yes totally agree.



SHalester said:


> yes, says somebody outside of calif? Hum. The fact is, U/L won't hire all active drivers. Many don't seem to grasp that. Many seem to feel the pay will increase and there will be benefits and nothing else will change. Those folks need a whup upside their noggins.
> 
> Unless a supreme court gets involved, like now, most likely U/L will cease operations for some period of time to 'prepare'. U/L right this second have but a single path, to make 'some' employees. There is no 3rd option.
> 
> And those few who wanted this, they will be in for a big surprise. There is a reason you need to be careful what you wish for.......


Perfectly said


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## Road Hu$tle (Aug 12, 2020)

Uber will have more employees than the biggest companies out there lol.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Road Hu$tle said:


> Uber will have more employees than the biggest companies out there lol.


They have already said if CA does not back off this dumb judicial order they are out of there. As much as I rag on Uber for being cheap I can honestly say I don't blame them.


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## Road Hu$tle (Aug 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> They have already said if CA does not back off this dumb judicial order they are out of there. As much as I rag on Uber for being cheap I can honestly say I don't blame them.


Obviously they have no choice. They can't have half a million employees in CA alone. CA lawmakers are out of their freaking minds.



Jimmy44 said:


> They have already said if CA does not back off this dumb judicial order they are out of there. As much as I rag on Uber for being cheap I can honestly say I don't blame them.


Obviously they have no choice. They can't have half a million employees in CA alone. CA lawmakers are out of their freaking minds.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

The people who think that Uber should be placated at any cost remind me of women who are afraid to leave abusive partners.

- "I can't leave him - I'd have nowhere to go!"
- "I can't leave him - he pays for my food, and _does _let me go out on my own sometimes"
Etc etc

I find it sad that the at-any-cost drivers are willing to put up with Uber's controlling behaviour, its ever-decreasing pay and its taking advantage. There may indeed be some minor negatives in forcing these companies to treat their workers properly, but it will certainly be worth it in the long run.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Road Hu$tle said:


> Obviously they have no choice. They can't have half a million employees in CA alone. CA lawmakers are out of their freaking minds.
> 
> 
> Obviously they have no choice. They can't have half a million employees in CA alone. CA lawmakers are out of their freaking minds.


Could not agree more. They are out of there minds and totally clueless about ride-sharing. All they did is ruin a great way for poor unskilled workers to make money.


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## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Could not agree more. They are out of there minds and totally clueless about ride-sharing. All they did is ruin a great way for poor unskilled workers to make money.


Uber ruined the taxi industry as well 1:1
In the long run nothing bad will happen but this decision put in the very bad position some of us.


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## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

All they had to do was to raise those darned rates and not slash them unilaterally...

Can't have one's cake and eat it too!


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> California legislation might be misguided, but if drivers get paid more _and_ Uber/Lyft fail, long-term that's a win-win. Even if costs go up for customers, that's probably what it costs to drive people around for money and ensure fair pay. Look at what gas costs in California. Look at what the GDP is. People in the state probably should be paying drivers more, even if Uber can't manage to do it with their business model.
> 
> The way that California is getting there is going to be messy and cause a lot of suffering. _That_ is the lamentable thing.
> 
> ...


Well said. AB5 is a good start in the right direction of forcing these gig employers to step up and play ball on a level playing field. That's all it is - it's far from perfect and it's not a finished product in my eyes.

For example, a farmer who needs help just for a few weeks during harvest season should be able to hire IC contractors to help him out, but under AB5 he will have to hire workers as employees and then dismiss them. That makes little sense.

However, the legislation can be amended and I would expect it to be moving forward


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## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> California legislation might be misguided, but if drivers get paid more _and_ Uber/Lyft fail, long-term that's a win-win. Even if costs go up for customers, that's probably what it costs to drive people around for money and ensure fair pay. Look at what gas costs in California. Look at what the GDP is. People in the state probably should be paying drivers more, even if Uber can't manage to do it with their business model.
> 
> The way that California is getting there is going to be messy and cause a lot of suffering. _That_ is the lamentable thing.
> 
> ...


You're right. It will be painful. I'm not sure who wins this round.


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## Omega 3 (Apr 4, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


Customers were not paying enough, drivers were under paid and under protected. Something had to be done. I would rather have seen minimum mileage rates enforced and everything else left as is. Drivers should have been paid $1.50 or so per mile, maybe more.


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## arcterus (Oct 31, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.


See here's the problem with your post. You spout the same Uber-provided BS about cab drivers that they did back when they blatantly broke the law all across the country entering new markets. Your prejudice destroys your message.

Before Uber existed, there were good and decent cab drivers and cab companies that took care of their customers and ALSO made a middle class living.

Today there are good and decent cab drivers that still take care of their customers and make a far more modest living.

There are HORRIBLE Uber drivers that treat pax like dirt and drive around in smelly cars and do the exact same horrible things that bad cab drivers did. There are also plenty of good and decent Uber drivers.

I understand that you have to defend the rideshare cartel, either because you're a shill or a prejudiced person. But you defend the lawbreaker. You defend the lawlessness. You defend the bad behavior destroying the middle class. And now you blame it on the government.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

and Uber customers never got “ripped off” by the surge?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

arcterus said:


> See here's the problem with your post. You spout the same Uber-provided BS about cab drivers that they did back when they blatantly broke the law all across the country entering new markets. Your prejudice destroys your message.
> 
> Before Uber existed, there were good and decent cab drivers and cab companies that took care of their customers and ALSO made a middle class living.
> 
> ...


Well you said how you feel. I will let others make there own decisions on this topic.



Omega 3 said:


> Customers were not paying enough, drivers were under paid and under protected. Something had to be done. I would rather have seen minimum mileage rates enforced and everything else left as is. Drivers should have been paid $1.50 or so per mile, maybe more.


Sounds reasonable to me


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## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

arcterus said:


> See here's the problem with your post. You spout the same Uber-provided BS about cab drivers that they did back when they blatantly broke the law all across the country entering new markets. Your prejudice destroys your message.
> 
> Before Uber existed, there were good and decent cab drivers and cab companies that took care of their customers and ALSO made a middle class living.
> 
> ...


 Taxi drivers as people are as decent as anyone else. I don't think people have a question about that. I was in the bar and nightclub business for over 40 years "back in the day." The issue with a taxi was getting one. A person didn't care at the end of their day how long it took. They could have another drink while they waited. Tomorrow morning they needed to get back to their car. Maybe they could,maybe not. It made a lot of people drive with to much to drink. Maybe you need to get to work. Is your taxi going to be at your house at 9am or 11am???????????


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## CarpeNoctem (Sep 12, 2018)

Isn't there a way that U/L can change their models so they can continue to classify drivers as independent contractors?

While not in CA and don't have a dog in that particular fight, seems like they can change their rules some before making all full employees.

I wouldn't want that gig. Set shifts, quotas, dress codes, set acceptance rates, minimum rating cutoffs... Some may like the benefits - if any are offered.


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## Illini (Mar 14, 2019)

CarpeNoctem said:


> Isn't there a way that U/L can change their models so they can continue to classify drivers as independent contractors?


Yes, but they don't want to make the changes that would be needed to make us true ICs. What they did in CA was a start, but they still have a LONG way to go.


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## Road Hu$tle (Aug 12, 2020)

Illini said:


> Yes, but they don't want to make the changes that would be needed to make us true ICs. What they did in CA was a start, but they still have a LONG way to go.


Uber drivers cannot become true ICs. The closest that they can become is taxi drivers, regulated by pricing and other rules.
If CA politicians want money, they should charge the drivers $500 annual licensing fee and then leave them alone. Increase the rates, charge the drivers licensing fee and then leave them alone.

Also, charge Uber $500 per driver every year.

Also, charge Uber $500 per driver every year.

CA can pocket $200 million every year on licensing fee from 200k drivers. Take that, and leave people alone.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> Taxi drivers as people are as decent as anyone else. I don't think people have a question about that. I was in the bar and nightclub business for over 40 years "back in the day." The issue with a taxi was getting one. A person didn't care at the end of their day how long it took. They could have another drink while they waited. Tomorrow morning they needed to get back to their car. Maybe they could,maybe not. It made a lot of people drive with to much to drink. Maybe you need to get to work. Is your taxi going to be at your house at 9am or 11am???????????


I can't tell you how


Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> Taxi drivers as people are as decent as anyone else. I don't think people have a question about that. I was in the bar and nightclub business for over 40 years "back in the day." The issue with a taxi was getting one. A person didn't care at the end of their day how long it took. They could have another drink while they waited. Tomorrow morning they needed to get back to their car. Maybe they could,maybe not. It made a lot of people drive with to much to drink. Maybe you need to get to work. Is your taxi going to be at your house at 9am or 11am???????????


I can't tell you how many bar pick ups I had as well as st. Patrick's day pick ups. I was always in fear of riders getting sick. I actually had to call 911 when riders did not respond at end of rides. No cabs were in site just fellow rideshares. How many lives did I save we will never know. I can say hundreds of DUI's for sure.



Road Hu$tle said:


> Uber drivers cannot become true ICs. The closest that they can become is taxi drivers, regulated by pricing and other rules.
> If CA politicians want money, they should charge the drivers $500 annual licensing fee and then leave them alone. Increase the rates, charge the drivers licensing fee and then leave them alone.
> 
> Also, charge Uber $500 per driver every year.
> ...


I was saying this ever since I lis


Road Hu$tle said:


> Uber drivers cannot become true ICs. The closest that they can become is taxi drivers, regulated by pricing and other rules.
> If CA politicians want money, they should charge the drivers $500 annual licensing fee and then leave them alone. Increase the rates, charge the drivers licensing fee and then leave them alone.
> 
> Also, charge Uber $500 per driver every year.
> ...


Amen and you are preaching to the choir. Great reply



Jimmy44 said:


> I can't tell you how
> 
> I can't tell you how many bar pick ups I had as well as st. Patrick's day pick ups. I was always in fear of riders getting sick. I actually had to call 911 when riders did not respond at end of rides. No cabs were in site just fellow rideshares. How many lives did I save we will never know. I can say hundreds of DUI's for sure.
> 
> ...


And don't forget the medallion system in NYC that kept the poor out of the industry for years.


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## Carlos unique (Oct 7, 2018)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


I rather the public gets ripped off and not me,the driver


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> yes, says somebody outside of calif? Hum. The fact is, U/L won't hire all active drivers. Many don't seem to grasp that. Many seem to feel the pay will increase and there will be benefits and nothing else will change. Those folks need a whup upside their noggins.
> 
> Unless a supreme court gets involved, like now, most likely U/L will cease operations for some period of time to 'prepare'. U/L right this second have but a single path, to make 'some' employees. There is no 3rd option.
> 
> And those few who wanted this, they will be in for a big surprise. There is a reason you need to be careful what you wish for.......





Carlos unique said:


> I rather the public gets ripped off and not me,the driver


Amen


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


Who are you calling unskilled? Speak for yourself!


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

MikhailCA said:


> Uber ruined the taxi industry as well 1:1
> In the long run nothing bad will happen but this decision put in the very bad position some of us.


Yes we are not only losing our 600 but our potential to bring in income. We have know one that can donate huge amounts to any of the two parties so we are screwed.


LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> Who are you calling unskilled? Speak for yourself!


Ok everyone this guy is skilled and if you don't believe it just ask him


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## LyftUberFuwabolewa (Feb 7, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok everyone this guy is skilled and if you don't believe it just ask him


Thank you. My mother says I could've been a doctor.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Carlos unique said:


> I rather the public gets ripped off and not me,the driver


Amen to that. Unfortunately we become the whipping boy. They took away our 600 and now our way to bring in income. The Dems are so upset about the post office that they are coming back from vacation. But the fact that we have no income or way to work does not bother them at all



LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> Thank you. My mother says I could've been a doctor.


Mother's always know best


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## kdyrpr (Apr 23, 2016)

sporadic said:


> All they had to do was to raise those darned rates and not slash them unilaterally...
> 
> Can't have one's cake and eat it too!


Exactly. They decided to cut rates severely which prompted drivers to protest which got politicians involved and like everything else politicians (especially Dems) touch it nearly always does nothing to solve the problem. It only creates unintended consequences which end up being worse than the original issue.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

kdyrpr said:


> Exactly. They decided to cut rates severely which prompted drivers to protest which got politicians involved and like everything else politicians (especially Dems) touch it nearly always does nothing to solve the problem. It only creates unintended consequences which end up being worse than the original issue.


Outstanding reply. The only reason the Dems are cutting there vacations short is they are worried they will not be able to use the post office to steal the election.



Road Hu$tle said:


> Uber will have more employees than the biggest companies out there lol.


If CA. had there way but Uber has other ideas and I do not blame them.



LyftUberFuwabolewa said:


> Thank you. My mother says I could've been a doctor.


Now I know that most of us are great at what we do. I also know that it takes great skill to do rideshare the right way. What I mean by unskilled is we need no formal training like college or trade school. The department of labor defines us as unskilled workers. I do not consider that a put down as I know what they mean.


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## sporadic (Jan 20, 2016)

kdyrpr said:


> Exactly. They decided to cut rates severely which prompted drivers to protest which got politicians involved and like everything else politicians (especially Dems) touch it nearly always does nothing to solve the problem. It only creates unintended consequences which end up being worse than the original issue.


For sure. At $0.60/mile, with maintenance costs and all borne by the driver... I'd rather hope to be classified as an employee with benefits, and that Uber bears all my running costs. And tells me where I'm going. In return, I'll accept any ping. They'll find out that they'll bleed even more than they are now with $0.60/mile rates.

At $2/mile, seriously, I wouldn't give a hoot if I were a contractor or an employee.

Aux cord? Check.
Mints? Check.
Water? Check.
Don't know where I'm going? Darn, who cares. A 50 mile trip to nowhere is still $100.
I'd even bend over backwards to give a 5* experience at $2/mile - drive throughs are permissible for me.

But $0.60/mile... yeah they can't have their cake and eat it. All the recommendations Uber once made for getting 5 stars are useful at anything >$2/mile. Otherwise... they can shove it where the sun don't shine at $0.60/mile!

Unfortunately, though... they just wanted to chase the bus rider pax, when it is the high value pax that provides a better profit margin.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> California legislation might be misguided, but if drivers get paid more _and_ Uber/Lyft fail, long-term that's a win-win. Even if costs go up for customers, that's probably what it costs to drive people around for money and ensure fair pay. Look at what gas costs in California. Look at what the GDP is. People in the state probably should be paying drivers more, even if Uber can't manage to do it with their business model.
> 
> The way that California is getting there is going to be messy and cause a lot of suffering. _That_ is the lamentable thing.
> 
> ...


For well over a year I have been a broken reco


sporadic said:


> For sure. At $0.60/mile, with maintenance costs and all borne by the driver... I'd rather hope to be classified as an employee with benefits, and that Uber bears all my running costs. And tells me where I'm going. In return, I'll accept any ping. They'll find out that they'll bleed even more than they are now with $0.60/mile rates.
> 
> At $2/mile, seriously, I wouldn't give a hoot if I were a contractor or an employee.
> 
> ...


You make great points. I can understand CA. tweeking Uber a bit like you suggested to get drivers more income. But they went overboard in there demands and cost thousands of drivers there jobs.



Jimmy44 said:


> For well over a year I have been a broken reco
> 
> You make great points. I can understand CA. tweeking Uber a bit like you suggested to get drivers more income. But they went overboard in there demands and cost thousands of drivers there jobs.


CA wanted paid sick leave and child care just to name a few. I could go on and on about how ludicrous there demands were.


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## NOXDriver (Aug 12, 2018)

Jimmy44 said:


> Yes we are not only losing our 600 but our potential to bring in income. We have know one that can donate huge amounts to any of the two parties so we are screwed.
> 
> Ok everyone this guy is skilled and if you don't believe it just ask him


THIS INFURIATES ME. You never should have gotten the $600 to begin with. You should have gotten UI and thats it. A global pandemic should not result in a PAY RAISE.

Uber will NEVER have full time driver employees. There is NO way it works. EVER.

Under the old system, drivers WERE IC's. They passed every test. But CA being full of idiots, well, good luck.

The only way Uber lives is with a subscription model wherein the driver subscribes to the Uber database of rides, essentially becoming (in truckers terms) a load board. But service will suffer as low profit rides simply wait and wait and wait. That way Uber is still a 'tech company' and the drivers are still IC's.

But the current TNC laws are not set up for this, and neither is insurance, drivers would need commercial licenses etc


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Could not agree more. They are out of there minds and totally clueless about ride-sharing. All they did is ruin a great way for poor unskilled workers to make money.


Yet some of the biggest AB5 supporters are perfectly OK with Uber and Lyft paying a measly $15 an hour before deductions. So many delusional ants think becoming an employee will solve everything.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

NOXDriver said:


> THIS INFURIATES ME. You never should have gotten the $600 to begin with. You should have gotten UI and thats it. A global pandemic should not result in a PAY RAISE.
> 
> Uber will NEVER have full time driver employees. There is NO way it works. EVER.
> 
> ...


Agree with everything you said except your first sentence. I was making twice the 600 a week and this pandemic killed my business and put me at severe risk.
I have not worked since beginning of March. Even when 600 was taken away I could not return for health reasons.
In my state they basically gave gig workers the minimum which was 197 plus the 600. That was about half what I was making.
I am living off of my IRA which continues to twindle each week.
Now if gig workers were the only class in this country getting help and bailout money then I would be more inclined to lean toward your feelings.
But huge corporations and thriving individual business are getting PPP SBA grants and PUA that would make your head spin if you could actually see the figures.
But everyone understands 600 dollars and this insane believe that drivers are staying home to get the 600.
I am a perfect example taking the 600 did not put me back to driving. It's not a money issue.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> For example, a farmer who needs help just for a few weeks during harvest season should be able to hire IC contractors to help him out, but under AB5 he will have to hire workers as employees and then dismiss them. That makes little sense.


Your farmer conclusion makes no sense.

You're proposing that farmers should be allowed to pull the very same scam Uber is doing right now, which is to fraudulently classify their workers as ICs.

Farmers who need harvest help can put the workers on the payrolls as temporary employees who are protected by Workers Comp and other benefits.

All over the US there are temp agencies which lend out short term employees, usually clerical workers but the principle is the same.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Yet some of the biggest AB5 supporters are perfectly OK with Uber and Lyft paying a measly $15 an hour before deductions. So many delusional ants think becoming an employee will solve everything.


Very well said. Like I said I was spouting your theory soon as I heard about this AB5.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

NOXDriver said:


> Uber will NEVER have full time driver employees. There is NO way it works. EVER.


They have them now except they're misclassified as ICs.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Your farmer conclusion makes no sense.
> 
> You're proposing that farmers should be allowed to pull the very same scam Uber is doing right now, which is to fraudulently classify their workers as ICs.
> 
> ...


Then why are they not going after every other gig like door dash and freelance writers who work for newspapers



Nats121 said:


> They have them now except they're misclassified as ICs.


I hate arguing about this cause no one ever changes there feelings. I prefer to let reality decide it. Uber saying thanks but no thanks to CA is perfect real black and white fact that it's ludicrous



Jimmy44 said:


> Then why are they not going after every other gig like door dash and freelance writers who work for newspapers
> 
> 
> I hate arguing about this cause no one ever changes there feelings. I prefer to let reality decide it. Uber saying thanks but no thanks to CA is perfect real black and white fact that it's ludicrous


Then you get these morons saying that Uber owes them back pay and are waiting for a check for back pay. I believe that there's attorneys actually doing a class action against Uber. There are thousands of drivers on this forum. Please one of you post a check for back pay or for hourly wage from Uber


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> The only reason the Dems are cutting there vacations short is they are worried they will not be able to use the post office to steal the election.


wow, for a moment I **** I was in the politics forum. &#129335;‍♂ -o:

So who is trying to stop voting by mail? You sure you want to hang your hat on your statement? Hum. Mountain of evidence would suggest otherwise.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> You're proposing that farmers should be allowed to pull the very same scam Uber is doing right now, which is to fraudulently classify their workers as ICs.


No, if we define situations in which contractors genuinely provide services as an independent business, which the temporary farm workers example would fall under, then by definition the provision of those services would not be a scam.


> Farmers who need harvest help can put the workers on the payrolls as temporary employees who are protected by Workers Comp and other benefits.


Clearly, any worker can be hired as either an IC or as an employee. This we know already; the decision at the centre of the matter is in which cases the worker should be classed as IC and in which as an employee. It is not sufficient to say that just because somebody _could_ be hired as an employee then they automatically should be. It is necessary to take a close look at each case in order to see whether employee or IC applies.

There should be several factors examined in order to determine whether a worker is an IC or an employee. These are:

1) Supervision and Control - if the worker is supervised and under the control of the hiring organisation then this indicates an employer:employee relationship. In cases where the hirer has no control over how the worker completes the work, this is more indicative of an IC arrangement. If, in the farmer example, the worker were paid by the bushel, or by the pound harvested, without any input from the farmer on how he would like the work done, then this would indicate that the worker is more likely to be an IC.

2) Substitution - if the worker must do the work him/herself then this indicates employment. However, if the worker can send someone else along in his place, then this indicates IC. In the above farm example, the worker could be part of an organisation such as a farm worker cooperative that sends out temporary workers to farmers in a local area. Because of scheduling needs, they may not know which workers will be sent to which farms on which days. Maybe I would need to send someone else in my place for a few days if I am scoping out a new client. Clearly, in this case, having individual workers signed up as employees at a particular farm would not work.

3) Mutuality of Obligation - does the contract state x hours per week at y rate, for an ongoing period, and that the worker must work as directed by the client? If so, then it is indicative of employment. However, if there is no mutuality of obligation - if the hirer is under no obligation to provide regular work to the worker and if the worker is free to accept other work from other hirers then this is indicative of IC status.

4) Part and Parcel - the contractor does not become part of the hirer's organisation. The contractor is there only to provide a specific service (harvesting a crop) on a temporary basis, not to become a general farmhand and permanent employee of the farm, and not to perform other duties other than the duty he was hired to perform.

5) Financial Risks - employees are generally paid fixed amounts per period, i.e. by the hour or by the week. Pay according to work completed indicates self employment.

There is often a fine line between employee and IC status. However, the line does exist and it is necessary to demarcate those who provide services as a genuine independent business from those who provide dedicated, close-relationship employee labour.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> wow, for a moment I thought I was in the politics forum. &#129335;‍♂ -o:
> 
> So who is trying to stop voting by mail? You sure you want to hang your hat on your statement? Hum. Mountain of evidence would suggest otherwise.


Well my main point is they are perfectly happy to go on vacation knowing that millions of us have not had a paycheck in over 5 weeks.
The thing that brings them back is the post office ? Why ? Because it effects THERE political future. No other reason. Getting a letter a day late is more important then millions of Americans going without paychecks.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> Then why are they not going after every other gig like door dash and freelance writers who work for newspapers


Lobbying is the reason.

Various industries successfully lobbied for "cutouts" to the law.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Lobbying is the reason.
> 
> Various industries successfully lobbied for "cutouts" to the law.


Exactly 100% correct.



Jimmy44 said:


> Exactly 100% correct.


That's like saying Coke has to pay taxes but Pepsi doesn't.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> No, if we define situations in which contractors genuinely provide services as an independent business, which the temporary farm workers example would fall under, then by definition the provision of those services would not be a scam.


Any attempt to label lettuce pickers brought in from Mexico or anyplace else as "business owners" lacks credibility to say the least.



The Gift of Fish said:


> Clearly, any worker can be hired as either an IC or as an employee. This we know already; the decision at the centre of the matter is in which cases the worker should be classed as IC and in which as an employee. It is not sufficient to say that just because somebody _could_ be hired as an employee then they automatically should be. It is necessary to take a close look at each case in order to see whether employee or IC applies.
> 
> There should be several factors examined in order to determine whether a worker is an IC or an employee. These are:
> 
> ...


Harvest workers fail most of the above with flying colors. You can also include the provision about a worker doing work that's central to the business. A farmer would have to claim that crops aren't central to their business, which would be laughable.

Harvest workers are temporary employees and should be treated as such.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Any attempt to label lettuce pickers brought in from Mexico or anyplace else as "business owners" lacks credibility to say the least.
> 
> Harvest workers fail most of the above with flying colors. You can also include the provision about a worker doing work that's central to the business. A farmer would have to claim that crops aren't central to their business which would be laughable.
> 
> Harvest workers are temporary employees and should be treated as such.


But those pickers are working for the farmer. Thus the farmer is reasponsible for day care sick leave etc.



Nats121 said:


> Any attempt to label lettuce pickers brought in from Mexico or anyplace else as "business owners" lacks credibility to say the least.
> 
> Harvest workers fail most of the above with flying colors. You can also include the provision about a worker doing work that's central to the business. A farmer would have to claim that crops aren't central to their business, which would be laughable.
> 
> Harvest workers are temporary employees and should be treated as such.


Yes and weren't those workers helped by minimum wage going up ?


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> Yes and weren't those workers helped by minimum wage going up ?


If the farm workers are being paid minimum wage now then they would be helped by an increase.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> If the farm workers are being paid minimum wage now then they would be helped by an increase.


Of course and anything they can negotiate with the farmers they are entitled to.



Jimmy44 said:


> Of course and anything they can negotiate with the farmers they are entitled to.


I think CA could have helped the Uber driver as an independent contractor. But they decided to go nuclear on Uber instead and ended up losing


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> Any attempt to label lettuce pickers brought in from Mexico or anyplace else as "business owners" lacks credibility to say the least.


Correct; each scenario must be evaluated separately.


> Harvest workers fail most of the above with flying colors.


Disagree. I explained why they pass the above.


> You can also include the provision about a worker doing work that's central to the business. A farmer would have to claim that crops aren't central to their business, which would be laughable.


No, I do not believe that the requirement that the worker be in a different line of business is a valid requirement. If I run a painting contractor company and I get a big job for which I need a painter for a few weeks, I will want to hire a subcontractor to give some of the work to. The subcontractor runs his own business and he will want to work as a contractor and bill me as a contractor - he won't want to go onto my payroll as an employee and I won't want him on it. However, because of the "different line of business" requirement, I would not be able to hire him as a subcontractor. Which is silly.


> Harvest workers are temporary employees and should be treated as such.


Again, disagree.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Of course and anything they can negotiate with the farmers they are entitled to.
> 
> 
> I think CA could have helped the Uber driver as an independent contractor. But they decided to go nuclear on Uber instead and ended up losing


Remember the 120 days of change ? Uber was heading in the right direction. Then something happened and the wheels fell off. Company has never been the same. I think they listened to activist investors.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> Remember the 120 days of change ? Uber was heading in the right direction. Then something happened and the wheels fell off. Company has never been the same. I think they listened to activist investors.


That was just a public relations exercise to undo some of the damage done at the time by Travis.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Correct; each scenario must be evaluated separately.
> 
> Disagree. I explained why they pass the above.No, I do not believe that the requirement that the worker be in a different line of business is a valid requirement. If I run a painting contractor company and I get a big job for which I need a painter for a few weeks, I will want to hire a subcontractor to give some of the work to. The subcontractor runs his own business and he will want to work as a contractor and bill me as a contractor - he won't want to go onto my payroll as an employee and I won't want him on it. However, because of the "different line of business" requirement, I would not be able to hire him as a subcontractor. Which is silly.
> Again, disagree.


You can disagree all you want, but the fact remains that one of the provisions in the IC law is doing work that's central to the business, and lettuce is central to the farmer's business.

The laborer is an employee whether he's paid by the hour or by the bushel (piece rate employee). Either way the worker must be paid at least minimum wage when all is said and done.

Your entire argument about "leveling the playing field" is legally irrelevant to IC law.

As far as your painter scenario is concerned, whether or not the "subcontractor" is a truly a contractor would depend on the details of his relationship to the painter.

Unlike most others on this website, I have been a true IC. I did IC courier work for three months and had two clients.

By sheer luck I found two companies that were in the process of moving and needed daily package deliveries for 2-3 months

Although I didn't provide a written contract I set the terms for my work which the clients agreed to. I set the rates. After getting burned by delays dealing with DC deliveries I slapped on a surcharge. I submitted invoices (really just receipts).

In short I was a true IC for those 3 months.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> You can disagree all you want, but the fact remains that one of the provisions in the IC law is doing work that's central to the business, and lettuce is central to the farmer's business.
> 
> The laborer is an employee whether he's paid by the hour or by the bushel (piece rate employee). Either way the worker must be paid at least minimum wage when all is said and done.
> 
> ...


So now what does CA. do ?
You pass and enforce this law and goodbye to Uber and Lyft.
The problems that would cause would be catastrophic.
Plus those companies have great lawyers. If they took CA. to court I would think they would have a great chance of winning.


----------



## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


All of the Good Uber Drivers
Can become Cab Drivers . . .


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

tohunt4me said:


> All of the Good Uber Drivers
> Can become Cab Drivers . . .


In my area and state there are no cab medallions to buy so basically you choose to be a taxi driver or rideshare.
I like the freedom of Uber and I feel I can make more money.
I don't know if LA and SF have cab medallions but if they do not many former Ubers could afford them



Jimmy44 said:


> In my area and state there are no cab medallions to buy so basically you choose to be a taxi driver or rideshare.
> I like the freedom of Uber and I feel I can make more money.
> I don't know if LA and SF have cab medallions but if they do not many former Ubers could afford them


Could not afford them


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Nats121 said:


> You can disagree all you want


How very magnanimous of you! I do indeed disagree with you, for the reasons I stated.

You're free to disagree with me, if you like!


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Getting a letter a day late is more important then millions of Americans going without paychecks.


dude, the politics forum is down the hallway, next to the leaky sewer pipe. :thumbup: Just don't forget your big boy pants. &#129335;‍♂



Jimmy44 said:


> If they took CA. to court I would think they would have a great chance of winning.


u r kidding, right? They did and lost; then lost the appeal. Now, nothing they have left, really. It isn't going to a higher court by Friday.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> So now what does CA. do ?
> You pass and enforce this law and goodbye to Uber and Lyft.
> The problems that would cause would be catastrophic.
> Plus those companies have great lawyers. If they took CA. to court I would think they would have a great chance of winning.


First of all, Uber's not gonna walk away from their largest market.

But let's suppose for the sake of this discussion Uber and Lyft do leave. New rideshare companies would take their place, and in order to make an employee-driver business model succeed, the new companies would have to stick to the basics of transporting people and things and not get involved with worldwide expansion, flying cars, and all of the other adventures Uber engages in.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> New rideshare companies would take their place


er, um, ah, ahem: like tryp?
&#128514;


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> er, um, ah, ahem: like tryp?
> &#128514;


I'm talking about legitimate rideshare companies. I don't consider Tryp legitimate.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> I'm talking about legitimate rideshare companies.


none are 'waiting' in the wings and none would be ready in anything less than months/year(s). at least tryp is sorta ready (not in calif yet).

no, it would be cabs enjoy a rebirth of sorts if U/L stop operating for a period of time. I just wonder how many cab drivers can find the 'burbs? &#128514;


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> dude, the politics forum is down the hallway, next to the leaky sewer pipe. :thumbup: Just don't forget your big boy pants. &#129335;‍♂
> 
> 
> u r kidding, right? They did and lost; then lost the appeal. Now, nothing they have left, really. It isn't going to a higher court by Friday.


I


SHalester said:


> dude, the politics forum is down the hallway, next to the leaky sewer pipe. :thumbup: Just don't forget your big boy pants. &#129335;‍♂
> 
> 
> u r kidding, right? They did and lost; then lost the appeal. Now, nothing they have left, really. It isn't going to a higher court by Friday.


All I ask is one driver send me his or her Uber employer contract. Then when they get there first paycheck send a copy as well.



Nats121 said:


> First of all, Uber's not gonna walk away from their largest market.
> 
> But let's suppose for the sake of this discussion Uber and Lyft do leave. New rideshare companies would take their place, and in order to make an employee-driver business model succeed, the new companies would have to stick to the basics of transporting people and things and not get involved with worldwide expansion, flying cars, and all of the other adventures Uber engages in.


So the numbers don't crunch for Uber and Lyft but they will for a new company ? Tell me how that makes any sense at all.


----------



## I will crack Lyft hacks (Aug 5, 2019)

Road Hu$tle said:


> Uber drivers cannot become true ICs. The closest that they can become is taxi drivers, regulated by pricing and other rules.
> If CA politicians want money, they should charge the drivers $500 annual licensing fee and then leave them alone. Increase the rates, charge the drivers licensing fee and then leave them alone.
> 
> Also, charge Uber $500 per driver every year.
> ...


I like that. Set a rate that both Taxi and Rideshare have to go by. Then drivers can choose if they want to work for Uber or be a Taxi. With the same rate, ride-share will have no unfair advantage on the market. Taxi will become more convenient Through technology as rideshare Becomes more expensive.

Someone with 1,000 $ can get a Taxi license and compete with the 60 Billion company In non medallion Cities. Or rent a medallion Car on weekly or monthly basis with dispatch service. Comes out cheaper than working for Uber.

The problem with set rates and new technology, Uber will have no advantage to other providers and will loose drivers and riders to competition.

Go Taxi, Go! &#128661;

Why should anyone at the airport order a Uber, when they can walk righ up to a Taxi, or Black car and just get in and go For the same price.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> All I ask is one driver send me his or her Uber employer contract.


um, er, ah ahem: employees, specially not in a union, there is no contract. Calif is 'at-will' for the peons. Means, you can be fired for wearing a blue shirt on a day the manager didn't like blue. Only slightly exaggerating there.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> I
> 
> All I ask is one driver send me his or her Uber employer contract. Then when they get there first paycheck send a copy as well.
> 
> ...


Because new and nimble companies wouldn't have the massive expenses of Third World expansion, flying cars, and all of the other extremely expensive adventures that Uber has to fund with their rideshare revenues.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Because new and nimble companies wouldn't have the massive expenses of Third World expansion, flying cars, and all of the other extremely expensive adventures that Uber has fund with their rideshare revenues.
> 
> Also, Uber committed itself to providing rides for everyone everywhere as part of their grand plan to replace public transit and car ownership. New companies wouldn't have that burden.


At this point only time will tell. I am on record as saying any company who let's it's employees pick there own hours and days they work and gives them the money and benefits proposed in AB5 will never make a penny


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> um, er, ah ahem: employees, specially not in a union, there is no contract. Calif is 'at-will' for the peons. Means, you can be fired for wearing a blue shirt on a day the manager didn't like blue. Only slightly exaggerating there.


Many employees have contracts including professional athletes.



Jimmy44 said:


> At this point only time will tell. I am on record as saying any company who let's it's employees pick there own hours and days they work and gives them the money and benefits proposed in AB5 will never make a penny


It's unlikely that employee-drivers would be allowed to have flexible hours but it's not impossible. But even if drivers are allowed to choose their hours they would be committed to working those hours or risk being fired.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Many employees have contracts including professional athletes.
> 
> 
> It's unlikely that employee-drivers would be allowed to have flexible hours but it's not impossible. But even if drivers are allowed to choose their hours they would be committed to working those hours or risk being fired.


Isn't Lyft part of this proposal. They don't have flying cars. Why are they leaving ?



Nats121 said:


> Many employees have contracts including professional athletes.
> 
> 
> It's unlikely that employee-drivers would be allowed to have flexible hours but it's not impossible. But even if drivers are allowed to choose their hours they would be committed to working those hours or risk being fired.


You just made that up. Show me where that is part of the proposal.



Jimmy44 said:


> Isn't Lyft part of this proposal. They don't have flying cars. Why are they leaving ?
> 
> 
> You just made that up. Show me where that is part of the proposal.


What you are describing is something called a Taxi Driver. Can Danny Davito be the CEO

So if your an employee getting paid by the hour with benefits does all the money for the fare go to who ?


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> Isn't Lyft part of this proposal. They don't have flying cars. Why are they leaving ?


Just like Uber, Lyft is spending massive amounts of money on SDCs and other technologies. And just like Uber they've spent large sums of money on acqusitions.

Neither company is leaving CA.



Jimmy44 said:


> You just made that up. Show me where that is part of the proposal.


I didn't make anything up. Nowhere did I say it was part of any proposal.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Isn't Lyft part of this proposal. They don't have flying cars. Why are they leaving ?
> 
> 
> You just made that up. Show me where that is part of the proposal.
> ...


Do you get paid the same amount


Nats121 said:


> Just like Uber, Lyft is spending massive amounts of money on SDCs and other technologies. And just like Uber they've spent large sums of money on acqusitions.
> 
> Neither company is leaving CA.
> 
> I didn't make anything up. Nowhere did I say it was part of any proposal.


Well what you described is not rideshare



Jimmy44 said:


> Do you get paid the same amount
> 
> Well what you described is not rideshare


I want the first person to sign on with Uber as an employee to please post on this thread.



Jimmy44 said:


> Do you get paid the same amount
> 
> Well what you described is not rideshare
> 
> ...


Also I want to see a paycheck posted.



Jimmy44 said:


> Do you get paid the same amount
> 
> Well what you described is not rideshare
> 
> ...


For the driver that drives 5 hours a week get same pay and benefits as someone who works 60 hours.



Jimmy44 said:


> Do you get paid the same amount
> 
> Well what you described is not rideshare
> 
> ...


What if I chose to work graveyard shift in rural area ? Do I get same hourly rate ?



Jimmy44 said:


> Do you get paid the same amount
> 
> Well what you described is not rideshare
> 
> ...


If your getting paid by the hour why accept any long rides.


----------



## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

waldowainthrop said:


> People in the state probably should be paying drivers more, even if Uber can't manage to do it with their business model.


FIFY

People in the state probably should be paying drivers more , even if Fuber WON"T do it with their "business" model ...........


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Just like Uber, Lyft is spending massive amounts of money on SDCs and other technologies. And just like Uber they've spent large sums of money on acqusitions.
> 
> Neither company is leaving CA.
> 
> I didn't make anything up. Nowhere did I say it was part of any proposal.





radikia said:


> FIFY
> 
> People in the state probably should be paying drivers more , even if Fuber WON"T do it with their "business" model ...........


Are you suggesting that riders are going to pay instead of a multi billion dollar company ?



Jimmy44 said:


> Are you suggesting that riders are going to pay instead of a multi billion dollar company ?


Google salaries of the top ten Uber corporate employees including there CEO. Then Google how many shares of stock they own and get every year in addition to there salaries.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

The Gift of Fish said:


> No, if we define situations in which contractors genuinely provide services as an independent business, which the temporary farm workers example would fall under, then by definition the provision of those services would not be a scam.
> Clearly, any worker can be hired as either an IC or as an employee. This we know already; the decision at the centre of the matter is in which cases the worker should be classed as IC and in which as an employee. It is not sufficient to say that just because somebody _could_ be hired as an employee then they automatically should be. It is necessary to take a close look at each case in order to see whether employee or IC applies.
> 
> There should be several factors examined in order to determine whether a worker is an IC or an employee. These are:
> ...


The contractor could pay by the bushel, box, bin whatever but that's piecework. IIRC piecework must equal out to at least minimum wage.

Where farm laborers make their money is by working faster or longer. I've known people that could do the work of 2-3 laborers and made pretty good money. But not all workers can do that.

It's kinda like the drivers here. Some have figured out ways to make or save money but the vast amount of drivers don't make money.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> The contractor could pay by the bushel, box, bin whatever but that's piecework. IIRC piecework must equal out to at least minimum wage.
> 
> Where farm laborers make their money is by working faster or longer. I've known people that could do the work of 2-3 laborers and made pretty good money. But not all workers can do that.
> 
> It's kinda like the drivers here. Some have figured out ways to make or save money but most drivers make money.


Not everyone's situation is the same. A geek living in his mother's basement can save more then a parent of five children. So how much a person can save has many variables you don't take in consideration.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> Not everyone's situation is the same. A geek living in his mother's basement can save more then a parent of five children. So how much a person can save has many variables you don't take in consideration.


Why would any of those variables matter?

When I hire an employee, I don't ask him how many kids he has or how much he pays each month in rent.


----------



## radikia (Sep 15, 2018)

Jimmy44 said:


> Are you suggesting that riders are going to pay instead of a multi billion dollar company ?


Not at all , you seem have a comprehension problem . I mere posted waldowainthrop's statement and fixed it for him . Can you see what changes I made ? Let me just point them out . He claimed that if Uber can't manage to pay the drivers more with their business model . I changed it to if Fuber WON"T do it with their "business" model .............. Fuber cutting driver pay has nothing to do with their ability to pay drivers , it's a conscious choice . Remember Fuber's S-1 filing before their IPO where they claimed that they expected driver dissatisfaction to continue to grow . How did you think that was going to happen ? Fuber is fully capable of being profitable right now if they weren't wasting so much money trying to screw everybody including taxpayers , the government , drivers , passengers , Lyft ...............................


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

radikia said:


> FIFY
> 
> People in the state probably should be paying drivers more , even if Fuber WON"T do it with their "business" model ...........


I don't really see a distinction between "can't" and "won't" in this case. If Uber's management feels constrained by their investors or market conditions, then they _can't _change. If new management weighs the circumstances differently, then they _will_ adapt. I appreciate the distinction you are making here, but capitalists are going to capitalize. People who run these companies and invest in them often think in fixed and even binary ways about complex issues. The capacity to understand what can, should, or will be done in a given situation isn't necessarily that strong in a board room or in a committee of decision makers.

This situation is forcing Uber's hand, but their hand may not be forced into adapting and therefore paying drivers more. They might quit. They might fail. They might find a third way.

It's possible for Uber to choose to pay drivers more down the line and subsequently fail as a business. Lots of things are possible.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> Why would any of those variables matter?
> 
> When I hire an employee, I don't ask him how many kids he has or how much he pays each month in rent.


You missed the point entirely. I was responding to how a person should have a driving plan that gives him a nest egg. The geek could be putting away more money in a nest egg then the parent even though the parent has a better plan and makes more.



waldowainthrop said:


> I don't really see a distinction between "can't" and "won't" in this case. If Uber's management feels constrained by their investors or market conditions, then they _can't _change. If new management weighs the circumstances differently, then they _will_ adapt. I appreciate the distinction you are making here, but capitalists are going to capitalize. People who run these companies and invest in them often think in fixed and even binary ways about complex issues. The capacity to understand what can, should, or will be done in a given situation isn't necessarily clear in a board room.
> 
> This situation is forcing Uber's hand, but their hand may not be forced into adapting and therefore paying drivers more. They might quit. They might fail. They might find a third way.
> 
> It's possible for Uber to choose to pay drivers more down the line and subsequently fail as a business. Lots of things are possible.


When I look at the saleries of the CEO and the top executives it's obvious they won't rather then can't.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> When I look at the saleries of the CEO and the top executives it's obvious they won't rather then can't.


Who hired them? Who continues to pay their salaries?

I am all for reducing executive pay and giving it to workers, but investors and boards generally aren't. They perversely see exorbitant pay for executives as an investment in the company's future.

Many companies have failed with massive giveaways to executives. Many companies have had executives limit their pay, and they have still failed because their business model was broken.

I think part of the problem here is that Uber wouldn't be profitable even if they paid the executives next to nothing.


----------



## lOOKATmE (Mar 18, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...





Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


"cab drivers ripping the public off." unlike UBER Taxi's actually made a profit!!!


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> Who hired them? Who continues to pay their salaries?
> 
> I am all for reducing executive pay and giving it to workers, but investors and boards generally aren't. They perversely see exorbitant pay for executives as an investment in the company's future.
> 
> ...


Activist investors are big reason for drivers meeger earnings at Uber


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> You missed the point entirely. I was responding to how a person should have a driving plan that gives him a nest egg. The geek could be putting away more money in a nest egg then the parent even though the parent has a better plan and makes more.
> 
> 
> When I look at the saleries of the CEO and the top executives it's obvious they won't rather then can't.


You're right, I missed your point entirely.

I have no idea what your reply has to do with my post.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> *Activist investors* are big reason for drivers meeger earnings at Uber


Well, now we know who to send to the guillotine first.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> Well, now we know who to send to the guillotine first.


I actually miss Travis


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

CarpeNoctem said:


> Isn't there a way that U/L can change their models so they can continue to classify drivers as independent contractors?
> 
> While not in CA and don't have a dog in that particular fight, seems like they can change their rules some before making all full employees.
> 
> I wouldn't want that gig. Set shifts, quotas, dress codes, set acceptance rates, minimum rating cutoffs... Some may like the benefits - if any are offered.


 Most people on here don't really know what an independent contractor is. Being a RS driver hasn't ever been an independent contractor job. A true IC is a licensed business. While acquiring these licenses you have to declare future earnings and pay taxes and fees in advance. These will be adjusted quarterly. You will do profit and loss at tax time in April. An Uber driver just shows a DL, insurance and a vehicle inspection. Goes on the road as an IC. NOT!!! All you have a possibly of achieving is a wage. You have no hope at true profit.
Uber could do as you ask and turn their drivers into true IC's. They would have to pay time and mileage to cover all taxes and fees plus business costs. Then wages and costs to do business. Not going to happen.
If you were a true independent contractor you could buy cars and hire people to drive them. Tell me another IC that can't hire people. You can be a bricklayer, work on heat and air,make flower arrangements and hire people as your business grows. You can't make a decent living wage working a 40 hour week in this gig. That's what it is,we are gig workers not IC's let's face the truth.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

observer said:


> The contractor could pay by the bushel, box, bin whatever but that's piecework. IIRC piecework must equal out to at least minimum wage.
> 
> Where farm laborers make their money is by working faster or longer. I've known people that could do the work of 2-3 laborers and made pretty good money. But not all workers can do that.
> 
> It's kinda like the drivers here. Some have figured out ways to make or save money but the vast amount of drivers don't make money.


Just as an example.

At my old job they tried a program where they paid workers to dismantle transmissions for their internal parts and scrap value.

They were paid the higher of minimum wage or X amount per transmission.

One guy excelled at stripping down transmissions and made bank. The other guys, not so much.

The program was declared a failure and shut down.

I heard about this guy years later and asked him about it. He said yea, it was easy.

What management didn't figure out was that he would take 3 transmissions of the same type. He would use one socket to take off all bolts on all 3 transmissions that were the same size. He would then take another size socket and do the same.

The other guys were taking different transmissions and disassembling them one by one, different bolt by different bolt.

The program was an epic failure because management didn't monitor it correctly.

But, the one employee made a lot of money while all the others made minimum wage.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> Most people on here don't really know what an independent contractor is. Being a RS driver hasn't ever been an independent contractor job. A true IC is a licensed business. While acquiring these licenses you have to declare future earnings and pay taxes and fees in advance. These will be adjusted quarterly. You will do profit and loss at tax time in April. An Uber driver just shows a DL, insurance and a vehicle inspection. Goes on the road as an IC. NOT!!! All you have a possibly of achieving is a wage. You have no hope at true profit.
> Uber could do as you ask and turn their drivers into true IC's. They would have to pay time and mileage to cover all taxes and fees plus business costs. Then wages and costs to do business. Not going to happen.
> If you were a true independent contractor you could buy cars and hire people to drive them. Tell me another IC that can't hire people. You can be a bricklayer, work on heat and air,make flower arrangements and hire people as your business grows. You can't make a decent living wage working a 40 hour week in this gig. That's what it is,we are gig workers not IC's let's face the truth.


Well I can make the exact argument for what a true employee is. 
An Uber driver does not meet that definition either. When was the last job you had that allowed you to show up and leave whenever you want.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

observer said:


> Just as an example.
> 
> At my old job they tried a program where they paid workers to dismantle transmissions for their internal parts and scrap value.
> 
> ...


Your guy in the example invented the assembly line. &#128517;


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

waldowainthrop said:


> Your guy in the example invented the assembly line. &#128517;


Lol, disassembly line.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> I actually miss Travis


You can literally see the decline of the company the day he sold all his stock.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

observer said:


> Lol, disassembly line.


Don't correct me. You're fired! &#128073;&#127996;


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Sometimes the easiest solutions are the most difficult for people to comprehend.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> Your guy in the example invented the assembly line. &#128517;
> [/QUOT
> The Henry Ford of transmissions


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

I guess Henry Ford was truly the Henry Ford of transmissions. 🤔


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

observer said:


> Sometimes the easiest solutions are the most difficult for people to comprehend.


If I see someone doing something better than me, I'm over there asking questions and "observing", many people don't.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> I guess Henry Ford was truly the Henry Ford of transmissions. &#129300;


I'm sure he could get a job at Lee Myles or Amco



observer said:


> If I see someone doing something better than me, I'm over there asking questions and "observing", many people don't.


The owner should have changed his job to trainer


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> I'm sure he could get a job at Lee Myles or Amco
> 
> 
> The owner should have changed his job to trainer


He was a smart guy. Saved his money moved back to Guatemala and bought a small fleet of busses.

Some owners are pretty hands off, too hands off.

I once had to tell my boss he needed to show up to the jobsite more often. &#128514;


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> I'm sure he could get a job at Lee Myles or Amco
> 
> 
> The owner should have changed his job to trainer


Woul


observer said:


> He was a smart guy. Saved his money moved back to Guatemala and bought a small fleet of busses.
> 
> Some owners are pretty hands off, too hands off.
> 
> I once had to tell my boss he needed to show up to the jobsite more often. &#128514;


Really a great fun story some people just have a business knack he seems like he did. Glad to hear he ended up going home and having success.


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Well I can make the exact argument for what a true employee is.
> An Uber driver does not meet that definition either. When was the last job you had that allowed you to show up and leave whenever you want.


 That's what I'm saying. RS doesn't meet that definition. Answering your question, I have been in business in my life. I used to be a home improvement contractor. I could leave when I got ready to leave. That night my customer would call and ask why no work was done today. None of us are truly free. We are always answering to somebody somewhere.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> That's what I'm saying. RS doesn't meet that definition. Answering your question, I have been in business in my life. I used to be a home improvement contractor. I could leave when I got ready to leave. That night my customer would call and ask why no work was done today. None of us are truly free. We are always answering to somebody somewhere.


But with Uber we honestly did not have to answer to anyone.


----------



## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> They have already said if CA does not back off this dumb judicial order they are out of there. As much as I rag on Uber for being cheap I can honestly say I don't blame them.


Of course you don't blame them.
They are simply following the laissez-faire capitalist ideal of generating as much profits as you can without getting caught. Well, it worked for them and their investors while turning their backs on the drivers.

They made the rules, set the pay and determined who drove on that platform and who and what they drove, meanwhile publicly declaring that they are not a transportation company, but only a technology company that provides a platform for drivers and riders. 
Uber/Lyft put themselves in this position but didn't expect the drivers to revolt. There is a solution and it will surface real soon. 
How it will manifest itself, is anybody's guess today, but there will be a rideshare model in the future. There is just too much demand and money to be made for the drivers and operators.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!!!


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> But with Uber we honestly did not have to answer to anyone.


I remember getting a phone call from Lyft from an executive from there corporate office trying to recruit me. I actually did not like it. In retrospect I should have taken his offer. I had a direct line to a corporate big shot.



Big Lou said:


> Of course you don't blame them.
> They are simply following the laissez-faire capitalist ideal of generating as much profits as you can without getting caught. Well, it worked for them and their investors while turning their backs on the drivers.
> 
> They made the rules, set the pay and determined who drove on that platform and who and what they drove, meanwhile publicly declaring that they are not a transportation company, but only a technology company that provides a platform for drivers and riders.
> ...


That attitude you describe was not there as little as two years ago. I was making great money up until the 120 days of change.



Big Lou said:


> Of course you don't blame them.
> They are simply following the laissez-faire capitalist ideal of generating as much profits as you can without getting caught. Well, it worked for them and their investors while turning their backs on the drivers.
> 
> They made the rules, set the pay and determined who drove on that platform and who and what they drove, meanwhile publicly declaring that they are not a transportation company, but only a technology company that provides a platform for drivers and riders.
> ...


I have often thought of a smaller group of diamond drivers in a small area that combined different facets of ride-sharing and taxi would work.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> Most people on here don't really know what an independent contractor is. Being a RS driver hasn't ever been an independent contractor job. A true IC is a licensed business. While acquiring these licenses you have to declare future earnings and pay taxes and fees in advance. These will be adjusted quarterly. You will do profit and loss at tax time in April. An Uber driver just shows a DL, insurance and a vehicle inspection. Goes on the road as an IC. NOT!!! All you have a possibly of achieving is a wage. You have no hope at true profit.
> Uber could do as you ask and turn their drivers into true IC's. They would have to pay time and mileage to cover all taxes and fees plus business costs. Then wages and costs to do business. Not going to happen.
> If you were a true independent contractor you could buy cars and hire people to drive them. Tell me another IC that can't hire people. You can be a bricklayer, work on heat and air,make flower arrangements and hire people as your business grows. You can't make a decent living wage working a 40 hour week in this gig. That's what it is,we are gig workers not IC's let's face the truth.


In Nevada, one needs a state business license to be an Uber driver. If the person wishes to pick up at the airport, they better have a county business license too.

As a real estate appraiser, I've been an IC for nearly 30 years. I fill out a Schedule C (profit or loss from a business) every year. As an Uber driver, I filled out a Schedule C also. An employee will not fill out a Schedule C.

In my appraiser business, my clients will not pay for my time or expenses. Its up to me, the business owner, to determine if the contract offered is sufficient to cover my time and expenses. If my client doesn't offer enough info for me to make a good decision, I refuse their offer. Uber in Nevada doesn't offer enough info an any assignment. I stopped accepting assignments from Uber. Their business model works for Uber. Their business model works for riders. Their business model didn't work for this driver. But, I don't demand Uber change their business model to suit my needs.

Employees get a guaranteed wage. Business owners can lose money on each assignment and maybe for the year. Uber drivers can lose money on each assignment and maybe for the year. Uber drivers can control they're expenses to a degree. A new, supersized, 4 WD, $80,000 SUV creates a lot more expense than an 8 year old Prius.

A medical doctor often works as an IC. The doctor cannot hire someone to do the job they were hired to do. A driver has passed the background checks and proved they are competent. The driver cannot hire another drive to do the job the original driver was hired to do.

As a rideshare driver, Uber isn't limiting what you can charge a rider. The state limits who you can charge. If it weren't for the state, one could solicit rides from all sorts of sources. Due to the state, drivers can only accept offers from pre-approved companies (Uber, Lyft, etc.)

As an appraiser, the state doesn't tell me I can only accept work from Appraisal Management Companies, Banks, or mortgage companies. I can solicit work from anywhere or anyone. Blame the state, not private companies, for limiting what and who you can charge.

Can Uber exert control over IC's? The laws say no. Must Uber deactivate drivers who practice discrimination or fail to take service pets? The laws say yes. Sounds like obeying one law violates another law. So, should Uber choose a rock, hard place, or leave?


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> I remember getting a phone call from Lyft from an executive from there corporate office trying to recruit me. I actually did not like it. In retrospect I should have taken his offer. I had a direct line to a corporate big shot.
> 
> 
> That attitude you describe was not there as little as two years ago. I was making great money up until the 120 days of change.
> ...





bsliv said:


> In Nevada, one needs a state business license to be an Uber driver. If the person wishes to pick up at the airport, they better have a county business license too.
> 
> As a real estate appraiser, I've been an IC for nearly 30 years. I fill out a Schedule C (profit or loss from a business) every year. As an Uber driver, I filled out a Schedule C also. An employee will not fill out a Schedule C.
> 
> ...


Outstanding reply you covered all areas so well.
I think gig workers have thrown a collective wrench into the equation.
They are a hybrid that is neither clearly employee or clearly IC.
From my four years working full time I would say gig is like no employer employee relationship I have ever had.
If I was a roofer I would need a ladder. If a painter I need a paint brush. As a ride share driver I need an app.
It's my tool to help me run my business.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> Many employees have contracts including professional athletes


my reply stands as-is. Most calif employees, not in management, do not sign or have an employment contracts. Those not in a union and even with union employees the union signs the contract, not the employee.

I did say 'peons', but now have expanded it for tone, balance and accuracy. There are always exceptions to rules.

Calif is a pure at-will state. You can be fired for any reason (well, a few exceptions detailed by labor laws).


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

bsliv said:


> In Nevada, one needs a state business license to be an Uber driver. If the person wishes to pick up at the airport, they better have a county business license too.
> 
> As a real estate appraiser, I've been an IC for nearly 30 years. I fill out a Schedule C (profit or loss from a business) every year. As an Uber driver, I filled out a Schedule C also. An employee will not fill out a Schedule C.
> 
> ...


How many clients do you have?

If you're an appraisal business owner why aren't your clients signing YOUR contracts at YOUR terms at YOUR rates?


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> my reply stands as-is. Most calif employees, not in management, do not sign or have an employment contracts. Those not in a union and even with union employees the union signs the contract, not the employee.
> 
> I did say 'peons', but now have expanded it for tone, balance and accuracy. There are always exceptions to rules.
> 
> Calif is a pure at-will state. You can be fired for any reason (well, a few exceptions detailed by labor laws).


I always knew I was working rideshare because I liked it and made good money at it. If it ever got to a point that either one of those two things changed I could just say see ya and look for something else.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> my reply stands as-is. Most calif employees, not in management, do not sign or have an employment contracts. Those not in a union and even with union employees the union signs the contract, not the employee.
> 
> I did say 'peons', but now have expanded it for tone, balance and accuracy. There are always exceptions to rules.
> 
> Calif is a pure at-will state. You can be fired for any reason (well, a few exceptions detailed by labor laws).


Your reply stands as is but it's still incorrect.

You made a definitive statement that's incorrect.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> How many clients do you have?
> 
> If you're an appraisal business owner why aren't your clients signing YOUR contracts at YOUR terms at YOUR rates?


I've worked for many hundred, perhaps thousands of clients during my career. Some clients offer me a fixed fee for an assignment. Some clients ask me for a bid on an assignment. Some clients have a pre-approved fee that I've established for a standard assignment. Some times I'll make a counter offer. Some times they'll make a counter offer. Its all still an IC/client relationship.

My appraisal clients impose some terms because my report may be used for a federally related transaction in which the feds mandate some items from the lender and the lender imposes those terms on me. For instance, some want pictures of each room, or inspecting the attic, or any of a hundred other minutia. Some of their contracts are 30 pages long for about a day's work.

If it weren't for laws, a driver could tell a potential rider sitting at a hotel that the fee will be $50 to go to the airport. The ride could offer $20. They might negotiate. They may or may not come to an agreement. Its still an IC/client relationship. Of course, the state prohibits such a relationship. Uber can't prohibit it.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> You made a definitive statement that's incorrect.


well, now, that is your opinion. Your reply was incorrect, so we are even, aye? Moving on: I don't do the back n forth toddler dance (well, with one I do). I qualify nearly all my replies. Can't post them all it would be TLR.

tata


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> um, er, ah ahem: employees, specially not in a union, there is no contract.


That statement is false.

You didn't say "most" or "some" or "many", you said there is NO contract, and as I pointed out to you there are MANY employees in this country who work under employment contracts, including athletes, entertainers, media people, etc.



bsliv said:


> I've worked for many hundred, perhaps thousands of clients during my career. Some clients offer me a fixed fee for an assignment. Some clients ask me for a bid on an assignment. Some clients have a pre-approved fee that I've established for a standard assignment. Some times I'll make a counter offer. Some times they'll make a counter offer. Its all still an IC/client relationship.
> 
> If it weren't for laws, a driver could tell a potential rider sitting at a hotel that the fee will be $50 to go to the airport. The ride could offer $20. They might negotiate. They may or may not come to an agreement. Its still an IC/client relationship. Of course, the state prohibits such a relationship. Uber can't prohibit it.


You didn't answer my second question.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Your reply stands as is but it's still incorrect.
> 
> You made a definitive statement that's incorrect.


I always get the feeling that people are trying to shove a square peg in a round hole saying that rideshare is definitely an employee employer relationship.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

bsliv said:


> As a rideshare driver, Uber isn't limiting what you can charge a rider. The state limits who you can charge. If it weren't for the state, one could solicit rides from all sorts of sources. Due to the state, drivers can only accept offers from pre-approved companies (Uber, Lyft, etc.)


Considering the fact that Uber for all intents and purposes wrote their own laws, your comment is disingenuous to say the least.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> ou didn't say "most" or "some" or "many"


ok, one last post to hopefully avoid the toddler back and forth. I wrote 'peons'. Google it. Covered everything you are obsessing about. Also posted there are always exceptions.

Google peons slang, you will get it.

TATA II


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> You didn't answer my second question.


I believe I did. I said, "Some clients have a pre-approved fee that I've established for a standard assignment." My needs don't dictate my clients business model. Bank of America has their own appraisal guidelines and if I want there work I have to abide by their guidelines. My needs don't dictates BofA's business model. If I agree with their terms I'll accept the assignment. If I don't like their terms, I'll refuse the assignment.

On the other hand, if my neighbor offers an assignment, I'll probably dictate the terms because the neighbor usually doesn't know what they need or want. I'll ask the intended user. I'll ask the intended use. I'll develop the scope of work. I'll give them a price.

If Uber offers an assignment and I agree with their terms, I'll accept the assignment. If I disagree with their terms I'll refuse their assignment. If my neighbor needs a ride to the airport, I'll probably dictate the terms because my neighbor usually won't know the true cost to drive to the airport. I'll ask when they want to go. I'll ask when they need to be there. I'll ask what gate they need to go to. I'll ask about luggage. I'll give them a price.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

SHalester said:


> ok, one last post to hopefully avoid the toddler back and forth. I wrote 'peons'. Google it. Covered everything you are obsessing about. Also posted there are always exceptions.
> 
> Google peons slang, you will get it.
> 
> TATA II


Your original "peon" comment was in reference to employees being at will, which is a different topic than employment contracts.

My responses have been to your original post, which is where the incorrect statement was.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Considering the fact that Uber for all intents and purposes wrote their own laws your comment is disingenuous to say the least.


Can a private company write laws ?


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Can a private company write laws ?


of course they can do whatever policies they want as long as they don't run afoul of laws or labor codes. And doesn't matter if the company is privately owned or a publicly traded one.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> of course they can do whatever policies they want as long as they don't run afoul of laws or labor codes. And doesn't matter if the company is privately owned or a publicly traded one.


Company policies are different from laws


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> Can a private company write laws ?


They can and often do.

A DC city councilor actually said he sees nothing wrong with it.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Considering the fact that Uber for all intents and purposes wrote their own laws, your comment is disingenuous to say the least.


Laws against soliciting rides were developed 100 years ago.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Company policies are different from laws


oh Jimmy when you are a employee there is NO DIFFERENCE. You do, or you are fired. With laws you obey, or you go to jail. Not a lot of difference there with the end result, aye? &#129335;‍♂


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

bsliv said:


> Laws against soliciting rides were developed 100 years ago.


I don't know what market you're referring to but it certainly isn't the case everywhere.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> They can and often do.
> 
> A DC city councilor actually said he sees nothing wrong with it.


That's a problem with the government, not the company. Lobbying is legal. Your DC government may be as corrupt as my LV government but that's hard to believe. Many council people here have ended up in prison.



Nats121 said:


> I don't know what market you're referring to but it certainly isn't the case everywhere.


Street hailing will get your car confiscated and possibly be thrown in jail in Las Vegas. Same as every other city that requires a medallion.
Even soliciting on craigslist is illegal in Las Vegas, unless its not for profit.

Where is street hailing legal? Why would someone use Uber when they could cut out the middleman?


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> oh Jimmy when you are a employee there is NO DIFFERENCE. You do, or you are fired. With laws you obey, or you go to jail. Not a lot of difference there with the end result, aye? &#129335;‍♂


What I meant is they are not breaking laws set up by states and or govt.
If people don't like there company policy stop working for them.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

bsliv said:


> That's a problem with the government, not the company. Lobbying is legal.


That's beside the point. For you to use the govt as an excuse is disingenuous.



bsliv said:


> Street hailing will get your car confiscated and possibly be thrown in jail in Las Vegas. Same as every other city that requires a medallion.
> Even soliciting on craigslist is illegal in Las Vegas, unless its not for profit.


The laws Uber wrote aren't about street hailing, they're about the use of an app. Thanks to Uber's "lobbying" it's very costly and difficult for someone to start their own rideshare business.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

SHalester said:


> oh Jimmy when you are a employee there is NO DIFFERENCE. You do, or you are fired. With laws you obey, or you go to jail. Not a lot of difference there with the end result, aye? &#129335;‍♂


I like most of your posts but there's a big difference between losing a gig and losing your freedom.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

bsliv said:


> big difference between losing a gig and losing your freedom.


I think my example as-is was perfect. But as I was thinking about it if you break a law that requires jail all your room and board, medical, clothes all paid for. When you lose your job, think it is kinda worse when think you think about it....hum.

Anyway, was making a point and pretty sure it landed. And if it didn't, well you can't land them all, aye? &#128526;


----------



## Jst1dreamr (Apr 25, 2019)

bsliv said:


> Your DC government may be as corrupt as my LV government but that's hard to believe. Many council people here have ended up in prison.


 Many council people everywhere should be put in prison.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> The laws Uber wrote aren't about street hailing,


I wrote its illegal to solicit rides. Street hailing is one form of soliciting rides. Advertising rides for profit is anther form of soliciting rides. A private company can influence lawmakers. Good for the company. Bad for society. Bad politicians. Politicians should not be picking winners and losers in the economy. Maybe Budweiser should outlaw Coors?


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

bsliv said:


> I believe I did. I said, "Some clients have a pre-approved fee that I've established for a standard assignment." My needs don't dictate my clients business model. Bank of America has their own appraisal guidelines and if I want there work I have to abide by their guidelines. My needs don't dictates BofA's business model. If I agree with their terms I'll accept the assignment. If I don't like their terms, I'll refuse the assignment.
> 
> On the other hand, if my neighbor offers an assignment, I'll probably dictate the terms because the neighbor usually doesn't know what they need or want. I'll ask the intended user. I'll ask the intended use. I'll develop the scope of work. I'll give them a price.
> 
> If Uber offers an assignment and I agree with their terms, I'll accept the assignment. If I disagree with their terms I'll refuse their assignment. If my neighbor needs a ride to the airport, I'll probably dictate the terms because my neighbor usually won't know the true cost to drive to the airport. I'll ask when they want to go. I'll ask when they need to be there. I'll ask what gate they need to go to. I'll ask about luggage. I'll give them a price.


You could very well be an employee in your relationship with BOA and an IC with another "client".

Some drivers on this website have come to the erroneous conclusion that doing some private bookings "proves" they are true ICs with Uber, and that's false.

I could own 5 supermarkets and decide to go "undercover" as a worker at a new competitor's store. The fact I own 5 supermarkets means nothing as far as my relationship is with the store I'm working at. At that store I'm just another employee, period.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> You could very be an employee in your relationship with BOA and an IC with another "client".


As an employee of BofA, I wouldn't have the option to refuse the contract or negotiate different terms. As an IC, I have both options. Since BofA is so large and they have plenty of alternatives to me, they generally won't renegotiate, they'll just find a different sucker. Kinda sounds like Uber.



Nats121 said:


> Thanks to Uber's "lobbying" it's very costly and difficult for someone to start their own rideshare business.


And I'm against such protectionism legislation. But Uber wan't elected to government. Its up to our elected officials to protect us from such abuse from other elected officials. Its often too late by the next election cycle.

General Motors may want to make it too tough and expensive to create a car company like Tesla. Is GM wrong or are the elected officials that pass the laws wrong? If GM succeeded, would our country be better off? Of course not.

Over and over again, small startup companies complain about restrictive laws. Then they become big and want competition reduced or eliminated. Competition is good for the economy and the society. Nevada has a law that a new rideshare company must come up with $1 million license plus a fee for each car using the service. I'm sure Uber paid someone off. Uber was just doing business in its best interest. The politician violated his oath of office, hurt the economy, and should be sent to prison.


----------



## cj-ca3 (Feb 17, 2020)

If you find yourself out of business tomorrow here's a new business idea for you. Place some ads offering to drive a U haul for people fleeing this state. The demand is huge!


----------



## everythingsuber (Sep 29, 2015)

cj-ca3 said:


> If you find yourself out of business tomorrow here's a new business idea for you. Place some ads offering to drive a U haul for people fleeing this state. The demand is huge!


And if you go to any of the red states you're a pretty good chance to get something back&#128522;


----------



## LoLo SF (Jul 12, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


No doubt there are shady cabbies out there who rip people off. But the taxi fares have always reflected the true cost of providing rides plus a reasonable profit. U/L have never charged the true cost because fares were being subsidized by VC $. We the drivers have also been subsidizing rides by accepting pitifully low rates. We deserve to be paid fairly.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

LoLo SF said:


> No doubt there are shady cabbies out there who rip people off. But the taxi fares have always reflected the true cost of providing rides plus a reasonable profit. U/L have never charged the true cost because fares were being subsidized by VC $. We the drivers have also been subsidizing rides by accepting pitifully low rates. We deserve to be paid fairly.


What do you think it costs to operate a $30,000 car for 5 years at 15,000 per year? Data suggests less than $0.60 per mile. Even cheaper with group insurance and self maintenance. If the car isn't worthless after 75,000 miles its even cheaper. Its much cheaper is you start with a $3000 car than a $30,000 car. What would be a "reasonable profit" given the cost is less than $0.60, maybe as low as $0.20 per mile?

I'd suggest a "reasonable profit" would be generated at less than $2.00 per mile. The Nevada Taxicab Authority sets the rate in Las Vegas at $3.50 per mile. So, in my rough calculations, Uber underpays the drivers by about half but cabs over charge their riders by about double. Accepting Uber's meager IC's fees is not the answer. But kicking Uber out of the state is not the answer either. I think educating the IC's to the true cost to drive a typical Uber car plus a "reasonable profit" would be a good start. Mandatory math classes for drivers?


----------



## Famous Last Words (Aug 19, 2020)

All the states will go after U/L sooner or later.
Billion dollar companies with millions of drivers who pay no payroll taxes!


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> But with Uber we honestly did not have to answer to anyone.


You have to maintain a host of ratings to remain on the platform. You can find as many deactivation stories on here as you want to read. Are you sure you are free to do whatever you want whenever you want? Think seriously.


----------



## MikhailCA (Dec 8, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> and Uber customers never got "ripped off" by the surge?


Upfront price, no? Surge was introduced just to set up the riders priorities.


SHalester said:


> none are 'waiting' in the wings and none would be ready in anything less than months/year(s). at least tryp is sorta ready (not in calif yet).
> 
> no, it would be cabs enjoy a rebirth of sorts if U/L stop operating for a period of time. I just wonder how many cab drivers can find the 'burbs? &#128514;





lOOKATmE said:


> "cab drivers ripping the public off." unlike UBER Taxi's actually made a profit!!!





bsliv said:


> What do you think it costs to operate a $30,000 car for 5 years at 15,000 per year? Data suggests less than $0.60 per mile. Even cheaper with group insurance and self maintenance. If the car isn't worthless after 75,000 miles its even cheaper. Its much cheaper is you start with a $3000 car than a $30,000 car. What would be a "reasonable profit" given the cost is less than $0.60, maybe as low as $0.20 per mile?
> 
> I'd suggest a "reasonable profit" would be generated at less than $2.00 per mile. The Nevada Taxicab Authority sets the rate in Las Vegas at $3.50 per mile. So, in my rough calculations, Uber underpays the drivers by about half but cabs over charge their riders by about double. Accepting Uber's meager IC's fees is not the answer. But kicking Uber out of the state is not the answer either. I think educating the IC's to the true cost to drive a typical Uber car plus a "reasonable profit" would be a good start. Mandatory math classes for drivers?


Cabs are paying taxes from these money and they need to pay for medallion.


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

bsliv said:


> In Nevada, one needs a state business license to be an Uber driver. If the person wishes to pick up at the airport, they better have a county business license too.
> 
> As a real estate appraiser, I've been an IC for nearly 30 years. I fill out a Schedule C (profit or loss from a business) every year. As an Uber driver, I filled out a Schedule C also. An employee will not fill out a Schedule C.
> 
> ...


 Uber got itself into this mess because of declining rates. You figured out this is a losing proposition and stopped accepting their offer. Most people figure this out over time. That is the biggest reason for high turnover of drivers. At the end of the year all drivers have is a barley livable wage and a run down car. We gig workers want to call ourselves contractors. Maybe it makes us feel better.


----------



## TBoned (Sep 25, 2019)

bsliv said:


> What do you think it costs to operate a $30,000 car for 5 years at 15,000 per year? Data suggests less than $0.60 per mile. Even cheaper with group insurance and self maintenance. If the car isn't worthless after 75,000 miles its even cheaper. Its much cheaper is you start with a $3000 car than a $30,000 car. What would be a "reasonable profit" given the cost is less than $0.60, maybe as low as $0.20 per mile?
> 
> I'd suggest a "reasonable profit" would be generated at less than $2.00 per mile. The Nevada Taxicab Authority sets the rate in Las Vegas at $3.50 per mile. So, in my rough calculations, Uber underpays the drivers by about half but cabs over charge their riders by about double. Accepting Uber's meager IC's fees is not the answer. But kicking Uber out of the state is not the answer either. I think educating the IC's to the true cost to drive a typical Uber car plus a "reasonable profit" would be a good start. Mandatory math classes for drivers?


I have been a Las vegas taxi driver for over 6 years. The taxi rate is $3 a mile not $3.50. There is a 3% excise tax also added and a tax from the airport. Taxi companys also charge the drivers fees. After all the funny math and taxes drivers take home about 30% of the meter. Yes they charge what a ride should cost the pax from the companys side but not the driver. Without tips no driver could make rent.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

bsliv said:


> As an employee of BofA, I wouldn't have the option to refuse the contract or negotiate different terms. As an IC, I have both options. Since BofA is so large and they have plenty of alternatives to me, they generally won't renegotiate, they'll just find a different sucker. Kinda sounds like Uber.


The ability to refuse work is just one of the criteria required to be considered an IC, it's not the only one. I'll go out on a limb and say they never renegotiate. It's take it or leave it, just like Uber and other companies that use misclassified ICs.



bsliv said:


> And I'm against such protectionism legislation. But Uber wan't elected to government.


Travis is a bald-faced liar and so is Dara and the rest of the a-holes at Uber who proclaimed their strong support for free markets. Uber is nothing but a rent-seeking exploitative bully.

The people on this website who say Uber is a shining example of free markets at work are either clueless or lying. Uber as we know it (exploited drivers with a $30 billion valuation) wouldn't exist without massive social spending by the govt, protectionist laws, and sky-high immigration rates.

Uber's already high-turnover of 97% per year would be much higher if not for the billions of dollars in food stamps, medicaid, and other public assistance the taxpayers have to pay because Uber pays their drivers 1970s taxi rates. The taxpayers are heavily subsidizing Uber and Lyft.
If the taxpayers knew about that there'd be a lot more outrage than there is now.

And laughably, Dara is calling for MORE govt assistance for the drivers.



Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> You have to maintain a host of ratings to remain on the platform. You can find as many deactivation stories on here as you want to read. Are you sure you are free to do whatever you want whenever you want? Think seriously.


Take a look at Uber's contract. There's a multitude of things that can get drivers fired. (Sorry, I meant to say "lose their access to the platform"). On top of that Uber can and does fire drivers for no legit reason at all. Is that the "freedom" that's being talked about?



observer said:


> He was a smart guy. Saved his money moved back to Guatemala and bought a small fleet of busses.


That's an example of our broken immigration system that deliberately or thoughtlessly hurts our working class and kills jobs in the process.

I've seen the same thing occur with at least three former co-workers when I used to deliver pizza.

We allow perpetually high numbers of Third World immigrants to come here and flood the job market with workers, which drives wages down. Billions of dollars in earnings leave the country in the form of remittances every year instead of staying in our economy and creating jobs.

High rates of immigration have enabled Uber and Lyft to massively cut pay rates yet keep the numbers of replacement drivers high.

Corporations save billions of dollars per year in payroll costs while real wages have been declining since 1970, when the effects of the 1965 Immigration Act started to kick in.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

bsliv said:


> That's a problem with the government, not the company. Lobbying is legal. Your DC government may be as corrupt as my LV government but that's hard to believe. Many council people here have ended up in prison.
> 
> 
> Street hailing will get your car confiscated and possibly be thrown in jail in Las Vegas. Same as every other city that requires a medallion.
> ...


And heaven forbid if you have a catostraphic accident with that guy who overs you 20 bucks to take him to the


LoLo SF said:


> No doubt there are shady cabbies out there who rip people off. But the taxi fares have always reflected the true cost of providing rides plus a reasonable profit. U/L have never charged the true cost because fares were being subsidized by VC $. We the drivers have also been subsidizing rides by accepting pitifully low rates. We deserve to be paid fairly.


Agreed and I can only speak for my state and area. My comment about taxis reflect the majority of comments from my riders. Uber was a blessing for them. There waiting time for taxis was in some cases hours. There cancellation rate was high. The cabs we're not clean and the drivers rude and lacking in hygiene. Most said they never use Taxis anymore and love Uber.



TBoned said:


> I have been a Las vegas taxi driver for over 6 years. The taxi rate is $3 a mile not $3.50. There is a 3% excise tax also added and a tax from the airport. Taxi companys also charge the drivers fees. After all the funny math and taxes drivers take home about 30% of the meter. Yes they charge what a ride should cost the pax from the companys side but not the driver. Without tips no driver could make rent.


It seems to me that there are a small % of drivers who make it work. The rest are chasing a reality that does not exist. Similar to the Gold Rush.



Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> You have to maintain a host of ratings to remain on the platform. You can find as many deactivation stories on here as you want to read. Are you sure you are free to do whatever you want whenever you want? Think seriously.


I can only speak for myself 4 years of full time driving. I was diamond status just doing what I normally did. Every minute of every day I felt free to run my business as I wanted to. I also loved the schedule C at tax time that know one really talks about or adds into the earnings and equation.


----------



## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

I’m going to be honest here, about taxis ripping people off, and taxi companies ripping drivers off, and Uber ripping everyone off.

I’ve felt more ripped off dealing with Uber then I ever have dealing with the cab company. The cab company model is designed to set drivers up for success and keep them coming back to keep renting taxis. If I wanted to just quit today I would have literally zero to walk away from, i could actually pick up my security deposit. But I keep coming back because I keep making money, and the only thing keeping me loyal to the cab company I drive for now is...

#1 far better pay than Uber/lyft.
#2 best taxi dispatch calls.
#3 the best company controlled taxi stands.

However during the slow times the money tends to suck.
Right now, that isn’t the case because there’s so few cabs on the road and the company reduced the taxi rental price.

Compared to the take that Uber takes off every fare... I give a lower % to the cab company than y’all give to Uber/lyft once you consider that your giving Uber/lyft the use of your car.
(It’s 30-50%).

Now let’s go on to the customers. Are they and when are they being ripped off?

That right there is the debate. Seeing as how the drivers can’t make jack and Uber is losing money they are providing rides below cost.

That being said, the “real” cost of a ride is more than Uber/lyft charge with no surge and Less than taxi rates.

however once we acknowledge that the cab company needs to turn a profit, and the drivees need to be able to make at least OK money all the time.,,

We come to the situation that some level of profiteering needs to occur, so the cost of the ride has to be marked up because of that.

So, we have to define a “fair” price as a price where the cab company and driver can turn a reasonable profit for their time/effort, without completely fleecing the passenger.


when it comes right down to it, I have screwed over customers before, I’ve collected way more then the fair price for a ride.

And I would never do it in a taxi, I’m been a victim of slimy taxis.

However on Uber? I’ve screwed over tons of customers doing Uber... not just charging “a little too much” but charging many multiples of the fair price.

The Very concept of surge is to screw over Over customers when they are desperate.

So I say this, in my humble opinion, I screwed over a lot more folks driving Uber than I did in a taxi, 


I also collected the “fair price” much more often in a taxi as well.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> and Uber customers never got "ripped off" by the surge?


No they didn't get ripped off. They agreed to pay lower priced fares when there was no demand..... AND higher prices when demanded. Here again there's that cake and eat it too.



Jimmy44 said:


> Can a private company write laws ?


With enough money......... Yes


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> The ability to refuse work is just one of the criteria required to be considered an IC, it's not the only one. I'll go out on a limb and say they never renegotiate. It's take it or leave it, just like Uber and other companies that use misclassified ICs.
> 
> Travis is a bald-faced liar and so is Dara and the rest of the a-holes at Uber who proclaimed their strong support for free markets. Uber is nothing but a rent-seeking exploitative bully.
> 
> ...


Cry me a river!

Immigration has been a fact of life since the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock.

He was here legally and every single person here had the same opportunities he did.

Instead of complaining about immigrants people should ask themselves, why is an immigrant with no education, no English skills, probably no writing or reading, living in a foreign country more successful than those born here?

People here LOVE to complain about immigrants yet continue to work in mediocre jobs with no future.

Instead of complaining about immigrants taking over a low skill, back breaking job and being successful, maybe you should look at what YOU are doing wrong.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> Cry me a river!
> 
> Immigration has been a fact of life since the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock.
> 
> ...


I agree that Uber has taken advantage of the immigration loopholes afforded to them.
When they arrive and realize that Uber is a scam they quit leaving the govt. ( You and Me ) to pay for them through Medicaid and footstamps in sanctuary cities throughout the country led by liberal democratic mayor's.


----------



## Wildgoose (Feb 11, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


When the cloud is clear, you will be crying and begging to use CA model in your state. Let's see.


----------



## goneubering (Aug 17, 2017)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> You have to maintain a host of ratings to remain on the platform. You can find as many deactivation stories on here as you want to read. Are you sure you are free to do whatever you want whenever you want? Think seriously.


It's just my opinion but many of the deactivation stories sound bogus.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Wildgoose said:


> When the cloud is clear, you will be crying and begging to use CA model in your state. Let's see.


Sure I will wait no problem something tells me it will be a long wait


----------



## Trafficat (Dec 19, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> New rideshare companies would take their place, and in order to make an employee-driver business model succeed, the new companies would have to stick to the basics of transporting people and things and not get involved with worldwide expansion, flying cars, and all of the other adventures Uber engages in.


How dare a business try to expand!


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

So.... Why doesn't Uber just use the same system as taxi companys.

Daily fee includes:

1 access to platform
2 commercial insurance 
3 can set own price if street hailed
4 set own schedule for 24 hour period 
5 does not need to pay unemployment tax..

Problem fixed....

OH WAIT..... 
1 THEN there would be RULES AND REGULATIONS LIKE A TAXI COMPANY.... OMG

SO, it's easier to yell "technology company" and bypass all laws and regulations! Also to screw the driver making the actual money for the company in the first place!


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Trafficat said:


> How dare a business try to expand!


I want a huvver craft like George Jettson



W00dbutcher said:


> So.... Why doesn't Uber just use the same system as taxi companys.
> 
> Daily fee includes: ok
> 
> ...


Can someone please send me the portion of the app agreement that states you have to accept everything we do and your not allowed to stop using it


----------



## Johnny Mnemonic (Sep 24, 2019)

SHalester said:


> And those few who wanted this, they will be in for a big surprise. There is a reason you need to be careful what you wish for.......


"Hi, Ants. Say hello to your new boss."


----------



## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


U/L drivers who know how to fill out applications can drive for taxi companies, or become city bus drivers, or greyhound bus drivers, or limo drivers, or....


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Johnny Mnemonic said:


> "Hi, Ants. Say hello to your new boss."
> 
> View attachment 500004


Louie Depalma great boss you always know where you stand and talk about accessibility always in his cage.


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> Travis is a bald-faced liar and so is Dara and the rest of the a-holes at Uber who proclaimed their strong support for free markets.


The opposite of a free market is a highly regulated market. Uber started as a free market business. They basically ignored existing regulations stating the existing rules didn't apply to them. High regulations stifle businesses. Big business wants free markets, except in their own market. Big business wants competition reduced in their market.

Am I wrong by taking every deduction I can on my taxes or am I playing by the rules set by lawmakers? Should fruit growers be chastised for hiring cheap and legal migrant labor? Uber does not make the rules (laws). Uber takes advantage of the rules. If I buy hotels while playing Monopoly and my opponent can't afford to buy hotels I am at an advantage. Its me taking advantage of the rules. I should be congratulated not derided.

Uber didn't open our borders. Uber didn't start food stamps. Uber didn't create free health care for poor people. Drivers take advantage of these services, not Uber. If Uber suggests to its drivers to take advantage of those programs, good for Uber, they're trying to help their drivers. Is the typical taxpayer getting screwed? Yep. But that's not Uber's fault. That's not the drivers fault.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Woohaa said:


> U/L drivers who know how to fill out applications can drive for taxi companies, or become city bus drivers, or greyhound bus drivers, or limo drivers, or....


Livery as well. Medical labs always looking. Courrier services. Use indeed this may be best thing that ever happened.



W00dbutcher said:


> So you would rather have the person who is doing all the work get ripped off by Uber and Lyft?
> 
> The only reason why Uber/Lyft is popular is because cheap ass passengers refuse to pay what's really needed or a proper Transportation company.
> 
> In my market it's a $0.70 difference between Uber and a real taxi company. That's $0.70 that you would normally pay will be the maintenance and upkeep for the vehicles. But instead Uber and Lyft has decided to put it all on the driver and not charge the passenger who's using the service in the first place.


So if I go into a dollar store I should pay same price as a Walmart or


bsliv said:


> The opposite of a free market is a highly regulated market. Uber started as a free market business. They basically ignored existing regulations stating the existing rules didn't apply to them. High regulations stifle businesses. Big business wants free markets, except in their own market. Big business wants competition reduced in their market.
> 
> Am I wrong by taking every deduction I can on my taxes or am I playing by the rules set by lawmakers? Should fruit growers be chastised for hiring cheap and legal migrant labor? Uber does not make the rules (laws). Uber takes advantage of the rules. If I buy hotels while playing Monopoly and my opponent can't afford to buy hotels I am at an advantage. Its me taking advantage of the rules. I should be congratulated not derided.
> 
> Uber didn't open our borders. Uber didn't start food stamps. Uber didn't create free health care for poor people. Drivers take advantage of these services, not Uber. If Uber suggests to its drivers to take advantage of those programs, good for Uber, they're trying to help their drivers. Is the typical taxpayer getting screwed? Yep. But that's not Uber's fault. That's not the drivers fault.


Doesn't every business in the world seek advantages that make them prosper ?


----------



## TheTruth...... (May 6, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


It's ok with me, Uber and Lyft ripping off millions of drivers around the world so screw them.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Livery as well. Medical labs always looking. Courrier services. Use indeed this may be best thing that ever happened.
> 
> 
> So if I go into a dollar store I should pay same price as a Walmart or
> ...


Prosper at the cost of screwing someone?

This might be a valid point if it wasnt the worker getting screwed... The company takes the loss or gain not the cashier or Stockers.



Jimmy44 said:


> I want a huvver craft like George Jettson
> 
> 
> Can someone please send me the portion of the app agreement that states you have to accept everything we do and your not allowed to stop using it


Yup... Sounds exactly what the management would say.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

bsliv said:


> The opposite of a free market is a highly regulated market. Uber started as a free market business. They basically ignored existing regulations stating the existing rules didn't apply to them. High regulations stifle businesses. Big business wants free markets, except in their own market. Big business wants competition reduced in their market.
> 
> Am I wrong by taking every deduction I can on my taxes or am I playing by the rules set by lawmakers? Should fruit growers be chastised for hiring cheap and legal migrant labor? Uber does not make the rules (laws). Uber takes advantage of the rules. If I buy hotels while playing Monopoly and my opponent can't afford to buy hotels I am at an advantage. Its me taking advantage of the rules. I should be congratulated not derided.
> 
> Uber didn't open our borders. Uber didn't start food stamps. Uber didn't create free health care for poor people. Drivers take advantage of these services, not Uber. If Uber suggests to its drivers to take advantage of those programs, good for Uber, they're trying to help their drivers. Is the typical taxpayer getting screwed? Yep. But that's not Uber's fault. That's not the drivers fault.


The people who run Uber are liars who don't believe in free markets and use all of the things I pointed out in order to treat their drivers like garbage. That's what they should be chastised for.



Trafficat said:


> How dare a business try to expand!


Not on the backs of drivers being paid 1970s taxi rates.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> I agree that Uber has taken advantage of the immigration loopholes afforded to them.
> When they arrive and realize that Uber is a scam they quit leaving the govt. ( You and Me ) to pay for them through Medicaid and footstamps in sanctuary cities throughout the country led by liberal democratic mayor's.


I know quite a few immigrants. None of them drive for Uber.

That may be a problem in other parts of the country but not here.

Most of the drivere I've seen are youngish, in their 20s, college age kids.

Like I said, it may be different in other areas.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> Prosper at the cost of screwing someone?
> 
> This might be a valid point if it wasnt the worker getting screwed... The company takes the loss or gain not the cashier or Stockers.
> 
> ...


I am a worker that has logged 300 thousand miles in the last 3 years.


W00dbutcher said:


> Prosper at the cost of screwing someone?
> 
> This might be a valid point if it wasnt the worker getting screwed... The company takes the loss or gain not the cashier or Stockers.
> 
> ...


I am far from being management.


MikhailCA said:


> Uber ruined the taxi industry as well 1:1
> In the long run nothing bad will happen but this decision put in the very bad position some of us.


Uber played a part in Taxis losing market share for sure. But the Taxi industry played a big part in there own demise.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

observer said:


> Cry me a river!


Every point I made is accurate.

And it's not just unskilled labor that's being adversely affected. HB1 visas are being abused to kill wages in the IT field. Many fired IT workers have been required to train their HB1 replacements.

Bill Clinton created a commission on immigration when he was president with former congresswoman Barbara Jordan as chairwoman, and her conclusions were pretty close to what I stated. She correctly pointed out that African-Americans have been hurt disproportionately by high immigration rates. Clinton supported the commissions conclusions.



observer said:


> Immigration has been a fact of life since the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock.


It has no bearing on my point that excessive immigration is hurting American workers.



observer said:


> Instead of complaining about immigrants people should ask themselves, why is an immigrant with no education, no English skills, probably no writing or reading, living in a foreign country more successful than those born here?


Americans, particularly working class Americans should ask their govt why they institute policies that are hurting them. The primary responsibility of our govt is to put the interests of Americans FIRST, not second, third, or fourth.

I highly doubt that guy was illiterate. Most likely he has a mechanical background in his home country.



observer said:


> People here LOVE to complain about immigrants yet continue to work in mediocre jobs with no future.


Many of those now low-paying jobs used to pay middle class wages and had a future, such as drywall installing. Uber used to pay middle class wages.



observer said:


> Instead of complaining about immigrants taking over a low skill, back breaking job and being successful, maybe you should look at what YOU are doing wrong.


Every time this topic comes up this is the type of response it receives. Attack the messenger while refusing to rebut the points.

Even some on the left are questioning whether high immigration rates are helping or hurting America and the native countries of the immigrants. Increasing numbers of people are starting to realize that relying on remittances from the US is helping to keep poor countries poor by discouraging work.



observer said:


> I know quite a few immigrants. None of them drive for Uber.
> 
> That may be a problem in other parts of the country but not here.
> 
> ...


The vast majority of Uber drivers are immigrants. According to Uber, in NYC it's 90% and Seattle 85%.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> I know quite a few immigrants. None of them drive for Uber.
> 
> That may be a problem in other parts of the country but not here.
> 
> ...


I think the big cities are more za


Nats121 said:


> Every point I made is accurate.
> 
> And it's not just unskilled labor that's being adversely affected. HB1 visas are being abused to kill wages in the IT field. Many fired IT workers have been required to train their HB1 replacements.
> 
> ...


I think you can trace this back to a bill sponsered by Ted Kennedy. He said it would not change the deversity of the nation. Yea that worked well. I believe by 2025 caucasions will be a minority.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> I believe by 2025 caucasions will be a minority.


I can't wait.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Every point I made is accurate.
> 
> And it's not just unskilled labor that's being adversely affected. HB1 visas are being abused to kill wages in the IT field. Many fired IT workers have been required to train their HB1 replacements.
> 
> ...


Yes exactly I think they get special visas.


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> I am a worker that has logged 300 thousand miles in the last 3 years.
> 
> I am far from being management.
> 
> Uber played a part in Taxis losing market share for sure. But the Taxi industry played a big part in there own demise.


Drink that kool-aid


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> I can't wait.


I don't know what you mean by that. Be more specific what about that makes you so gitty


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> I don't know what you mean by that. Be more specific what about that makes you so gitty


I guess this is the time for me to turn the tables. What will be so bad about white people becoming a minority? &#129325;


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> Drink that kool-aid


LOL


waldowainthrop said:


> I guess this is the time for me to turn the tables. What will be so bad about white people becoming a minority? &#129325;


I don't think I said one way or another if it's good or bad. I was simply referring to an immigration bill that is responsible for it.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> I don't think I said one way or another if it's good or bad. I was simply referring to an immigration bill that is responsible for it.


I like immigration. One of my parents was an immigrant. Most of my great-grandparents were as well.

I'm not really that interested in race as a category, nor majorities as a measure of power. I think diversity is a really good antidote to those attitudes, in the long run.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> What will be so bad about white people becoming a minority


....where I live, and I'm UK kinda white, I am the clear minority. Indians rule miles in every direction from my home. Sprinkle in a very few white folks, Asians etc. It's not so bad, until I go the school and it's sea of black hair...oh, that one brown haired kid, must be my son. :thumbup:


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> don't believe in free markets


We might be working with different definitions of a "free market." To me, a free market involves only voluntary transactions unrestricted by any third party (like a government). The principle of supply and demand makes the rules. If an item is in short supply and there is high demand, its price goes up. Likewise, if there is an over supply and little demand, the price goes down. As a result, a higher price reduces demand and a lower price spurs demand. Labor is not immune from the principle. An over supply of drivers will cause their wage to be reduced until the number of drivers is sufficient for the demand. Eventually, the price will reach an equilibrium where supply meets demand. The equilibrium point maximizes profits for all involved. The equilibrium point hires the maximum amount of drivers at a wage the riders are willing to pay.

Imagine running a company that is losing million or billions of dollars a year. You have an over supply of labor for the current demand. The answer would be to lower the wage of the laborers until you had enough to meet the demand.

Without a doubt, a large number of immigrants who are willing to work at a low wage will reduce the average wage in that market. But that isn't all bad news. In Las Vegas during the 1990's, if you went to a construction site (and there were lots of construction sites), you had better be able to speak Spanish. The low wages of the construction workers reduced the cost of buildings. Competition among builders reduced the price to the eventual buyer. The result was a lot of new houses at affordable prices. Other markets (restaurants, farms, landscapers, factories, etc.) had similar results. Cheap labor is not bad for the economy. Cheap labor is bad if you're a laborer in that market. Its a matter of perspective.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

SHalester said:


> ....where I live, and I'm UK kinda white, I am the clear minority. Indians rule miles in every direction from my home. Sprinkle in a very few white folks, Asians etc. It's not so bad, until I go the school and it's sea of black hair...oh, that one brown haired kid, must be my son. :thumbup:


I spent most of my life living in minority white cities. It's shaped my perspective on these sorts of issues.

I don't think it's enough to count numbers, though. An integrated society is about more than just who lives where.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> Every point I made is accurate.
> 
> And it's not just unskilled labor that's being adversely affected. HB1 visas are being abused to kill wages in the IT field. Many fired IT workers have been required to train their HB1 replacements.
> 
> ...


Look, you and I are probably about the same age, you may be slightly older than I am.

We both remember the good old days.

I grew up in a middle class family, dad (who was an immigrant, with little education), worked very hard, 4-10s at a factory and 3 days cutting other peoples lawns. He made good money at the factory and good money on his lawn business. Then he got in to real estate.

Mom didn't have to work except watching over us kids which was a job in itself.

Those days are over.

They won't come back in our lifetime.

We can't stay at the same job year after year, decade after decade HOPING things will get better.

Since my layoff, 12 years ago, I've worked at many mediocre jobs. Probably 15-16 different jobs.

Shaking Almonds, sweeping Almonds, harvesting them. All dirty, dirty, DIRTY jobs.

Drilling water wells in wet, muddy, freezing 15 degree to 115 degree weather. Blowing out wells, installing and removing water pumps.

Operating backhoes, graders, tractors, dump trucks, whatever you name it, I probly operated it.

Delivered packages in my car.

Raised roaches, worms and crickets (interesting and profitable business, BTW).

Sold strawberries, christmas trees, pumpkins, engines, transmissions, brake parts.

Among lots of other jobs.

I know most of those jobs are mediocre. I took them, learned and moved on.

You can't keep working the same job and expect things to catch up.


----------



## akwunomy (Jan 12, 2020)

That was a dumb post of the year...we are better of U/L going out of business in California than working as a slave....those drivers out of business will surely figure it out...nobody will die of this...there is always a light at the end of the tunnel...let celebrate our win...if they want equity and fairness...let it start now...if you think otherwise..,,you cAn move to other states and drive for Uber...


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Nats121 said:


> Every point I made is accurate.
> 
> And it's not just unskilled labor that's being adversely affected. HB1 visas are being abused to kill wages in the IT field. Many fired IT workers have been required to train their HB1 replacements.
> 
> ...


BTW, I forgot to mention, the biggest factor in lost middle class jobs is corporations shifting jobs overseas not immigrants.

Oh, lol. I just realized.

I AM AN IMMIGRANT.

I've been here since I was 3 but i am an immigrant.

One advantage I see among immigrants is that they aren't afraid of hard work but the biggest difference is they aren't afraid of

CHANGE.

They embrace it.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

TheTruth...... said:


> It's ok with me, Uber and Lyft ripping off millions of drivers around the world so screw them.


So mill


TheTruth...... said:


> It's ok with me, Uber and Lyft ripping off millions of drivers around the world so screw them.





bsliv said:


> We might be working with different definitions of a "free market." To me, a free market involves only voluntary transactions unrestricted by any third party (like a government). The principle of supply and demand makes the rules. If an item is in short supply and there is high demand, its price goes up. Likewise, if there is an over supply and little demand, the price goes down. As a result, a higher price reduces demand and a lower price spurs demand. Labor is not immune from the principle. An over supply of drivers will cause their wage to be reduced until the number of drivers is sufficient for the demand. Eventually, the price will reach an equilibrium where supply meets demand. The equilibrium point maximizes profits for all involved. The equilibrium point hires the maximum amount of drivers at a wage the riders are willing to pay.
> 
> Imagine running a company that is losing million or billions of dollars a year. You have an over supply of labor for the current demand. The answer would be to lower the wage of the laborers until you had enough to meet the demand.
> 
> Without a doubt, a large number of immigrants who are willing to work at a low wage will reduce the average wage in that market. But that isn't all bad news. In Las Vegas during the 1990's, if you went to a construction site (and there were lots of construction sites), you had better be able to speak Spanish. The low wages of the construction workers reduced the cost of buildings. Competition among builders reduced the price to the eventual buyer. The result was a lot of new houses at affordable prices. Other markets (restaurants, farms, landscapers, factories, etc.) had similar results. Cheap labor is not bad for the economy. Cheap labor is bad if you're a laborer in that market. Its a matter of perspective.





observer said:


> Look, you and I are probably about the same age, you may be slightly older than I am.
> 
> We both remember the good old days.
> 
> ...


Good Points



akwunomy said:


> That was a dumb post of the year...we are better of U/L going out of business in California than working as a slave....those drivers out of business will surely figure it out...nobody will die of this...there is always a light at the end of the tunnel...let celebrate our win...if they want equity and fairness...let it start now...if you think otherwise..,,you cAn move to other states and drive for Uber...


The reason it was so great 4 years ago was small number of drivers.


----------



## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

W00dbutcher said:


> So you would rather have the person who is doing all the work get ripped off by Uber and Lyft?


I would rather have the person either figure it out for him/herself or quit. U/L does not need to teach these idiots how to do it right, and they CERTAINLY don't need to simply GIVE them FREE MONEY for doing the exact same sub-par job.

This gig is called a "Side Hustle"... emphasis on HUSTLE


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> So mill





iheartuber said:


> I would rather have the person either figure it out for him/herself or quit. U/L does not need to teach these idiots how to do it right, and they CERTAINLY don't need to simply GIVE them FREE MONEY for doing the exact same sub-par job.
> 
> This gig is called a "Side Hustle"... emphasis on HUSTLE


Liked the part about quitting if your not pleased. 
I dislike Uber but do not feel like they have to meet my desires as a driver nor do they have any legal obligation to do so.
If I was not making money and enjoying driving I would quit.


----------



## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

Work full time at Walmart or target. You get benefits and pay is on par with what you make after expenses. Get a second job. Since full timers already drive 80 hrs what’s another 20 at Starbucks?


----------



## dnlbaboof (Nov 13, 2015)

imagine if ab5 just said you must have the rate per mile be twice the mileage deduction, would help people a lot in lower paying markets where travis cut the rate to like 60 cents a mile, ab5 gives drivers nothing, no health insurance, no increase in pay, it just puts you on a clock where youre gonna have to accept every ride on a shift 30 miles from your house, but 90% of drivers wont even get shifts.

Vote yes on 22 ,keeps IC status, it gives you a 30 cent raise per mile, a huge raise if you driver 30 miles in a hour thats 9 extra bucks......


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> I don't really see a distinction between "can't" and "won't" in this case.


Exactly; can't vs won't is of no importance. What's important is do vs not do.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Uber_Yota_916 said:


> Work full time at Walmart or target. You get benefits and pay is on par with what you make after expenses. Get a second job. Since full timers already drive 80 hrs what's another 20 at Starbucks?


I have read your reply about ten times and really don't know exactly what your saying. I know you suggest working 120 hours a week. The stuff about Target and Walmart and Starbucks gets me confused.


----------



## theonearmedman (Oct 16, 2017)

Only rich people can afford to live in California anyway. The number of homeless is exploding down there and nobody can afford rent in LA or anywhere there anymore


----------



## Uber_Yota_916 (May 1, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> I have read your reply about ten times and really don't know exactly what your saying. I know you suggest working 120 hours a week. The stuff about Target and Walmart and Starbucks gets me confused.


1 full time job and a part time second job.


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

I do not know what the majority of drives in California are, Full time or part time drivers. I am assuming that Part time is the majority of drivers. The article I read stated that if they have to consider all drivers Employees and pay them, they are going to have to limit the # of drivers which is going to make it harder to get rides and make the cost of rides go up. So this means 1 of 2 things, Limit the number of hours that the drivers work, thus making them all part time drivers, OR Going with fewer drivers making them all Full time drivers.( or the vast majority) Which screws someone in the long run.

Just seems to me it is the case of a Bunch of entitled people yelling about something they want and were not offered initially tilt hey get their way and screwing every one who didn't have a problem with it. .. . .. 

Either way I agree with the title. . .CA you just Blew it


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

theonearmedman said:


> Only rich people can afford to live in California anyway. The number of homeless is exploding down there and nobody can afford rent in LA or anywhere there anymore


I heard SF and Oakland Alemeda are through the roof



Uber_Yota_916 said:


> 1 full time job and a part time second job.


Ok I prefer to just grind it out on rideshare



Kilroy4303 said:


> I do not know what the majority of drives in California are, Full time or part time drivers. I am assuming that Part time is the majority of drivers. The article I read stated that if they have to consider all drivers Employees and pay them, they are going to have to limit the # of drivers which is going to make it harder to get rides and make the cost of rides go up. So this means 1 of 2 things, Limit the number of hours that the drivers work, thus making them all part time drivers, OR Going with fewer drivers making them all Full time drivers.( or the vast majority) Which screws someone in the long run.
> 
> Just seems to me it is the case of a Bunch of entitled people yelling about something they want and were not offered initially tilt hey get their way and screwing every one who didn't have a problem with it. .. . ..
> 
> Either way I agree with the title. . .CA you just Blew it


Outstanding reply.
I thought the exact same thing as you do a year ago when AB5 was introduced.
Your response hit all the areas that make the proposal impossible with Uber as we currently know it.


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Kilroy4303 said:


> So this means 1 of 2 things, Limit the number of hours that the drivers work, thus making them all part time drivers, OR Going with fewer drivers making them all Full time drivers.( or the vast majority) Which screws someone in the long run.


You can please some of the people all of the time. You can please all of the people some of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time.

If the anti-AB5ers had got their way, then the people in support of employee status would be the ones who are crying now. Instead, it's you fellas. Someone's always going to be unhappy; I think we have to accept that.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


Tx to California by eliminate slavery let Uber buy car to see the real expenses and hire employee by hours with benefits to see if they can still stuck billions


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Gby said:


> Tx to California by eliminate slavery let Uber buy car to see the real expenses and hire employee by hours with benefits to see if they can still stuck billions


Its a work as you want business... . how the heck is that slavery. You know the business and what it entails going into it. It is your choice to sign up and work for them knowing you are going to use your car. .. so wear and tear comes with the job. .. the important thing to remember ITS YOUR CHOICE TO WORK FOR THEM. so by dictionary definition its not slavery. God I hate these people who think they can just sign up, and complain and whine about of I didn't get this, Oh I didn't get that. WHEN IT WASNT OFFERD IN THE FIRST PLACE. Well. .. .. . .you got want you want. . You're now an employee. .. and the company has chosen to reduce hours and shut down til they can figure out how to make it a business again.

TX to california. .. .? NO TX to all you entitled idiots who didnt think about this before you complained. .. .
You got what you wanted congratulations


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gby said:


> Tx to California by eliminate slavery let Uber buy car to see the real expenses and hire employee by hours with benefits to see if they can still stuck billions


I don't think Uber feels the need to


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

observer said:


> We can't stay at the same job year after year, decade after decade HOPING things will get better.


Maybe not, but reduced immigration rates will go a long way toward protecting the wages of working people.

The opponents of reduced immigration rates overlook the fact that continued high immigration rates hurts the wages of immigrants who are already here.

The US in conjunction with other nations should always have an open-door policy for refugees facing genuine danger to their lives. Unfortunately, that's been abused, and the frauds who take advantage put the legitimate refugees' lives at risk.


----------



## Drewski101 (Dec 28, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


There's a stupid statement. Cab drivers ripping the public off? You mean cab drivers earning a decent wage. See the difference. That's what matters. California won. Stop crying like a whining little ***** and go get a real job. You lose.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Drewski101 said:


> There's a stupid statement. Cab drivers ripping the public off? You mean cab drivers earning a decent wage. See the difference. That's what matters. California won. Stop crying like a whining little @@@@@ and go get a real job. You lose.


This guy keeps changing his screen name but I can always tell it's him so it's so much fun to put him on ignore for about the 5th time.


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Road Hu$tle said:


> Uber drivers cannot become true ICs. The closest that they can become is taxi drivers, regulated by pricing and other rules.
> If CA politicians want money, they should charge the drivers $500 annual licensing fee and then leave them alone. Increase the rates, charge the drivers licensing fee and then leave them alone.
> 
> Also, charge Uber $500 per driver every year.
> ...


I'm not in California but if something like AB5 came to my state, I'd rather agree to your suggestion. The only other thing I'd want is a base pay of $1.40 a mile, 30¢ a minute and a minimum fare of $6.00. Oh, and full trip information before we accept a trip.

I'd never complain about LyUber again and they can charge and keep all surges if they want.


----------



## TheTruth...... (May 6, 2020)

observer said:


> BTW, I forgot to mention, the biggest factor in lost middle class jobs is corporations shifting jobs overseas not immigrants.
> 
> Oh, lol. I just realized.
> 
> ...


They also embrace the DCF where I live, this county is 70% white but if you go into DCF or the Welfare office if there are 100 people 95 of them are Hispanic or Islander Haitian and the rest, when I was driving I would go there at least 2 times a month for customers.


----------



## TheTruth...... (May 6, 2020)

The Gift of Fish said:


> You can please some of the people all of the time. You can please all of the people some of the time. But you can't please all of the people all of the time.
> 
> If the anti-AB5ers had got their way, then the people in support of employee status would be the ones who are crying now. Instead, it's you fellas. Someone's always going to be unhappy; I think we have to accept that.


California and NYC got it right period, if the part times have to go then they go they have full time jobs anyway, too bad, enough with Uber and Lyft robbing so many.


----------



## TheTruth...... (May 6, 2020)

iheartuber said:


> I would rather have the person either figure it out for him/herself or quit. U/L does not need to teach these idiots how to do it right, and they CERTAINLY don't need to simply GIVE them FREE MONEY for doing the exact same sub-par job.
> 
> This gig is called a "Side Hustle"... emphasis on HUSTLE


Wrong, many do it full time so you are dead wrong. They pay sub par wages for too long.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

AvisDeene said:


> I'm not in California but if something like AB5 came to my state, I'd rather agree to your suggestion. The only other thing I'd want is a base pay of $1.40 a mile, 30¢ a minute and a minimum fare of $6.00. Oh, and full trip information before we accept a trip.
> 
> I'd never complain about LyUber again and they can charge and keep all surges if they want.


Uber fare are not bad the problem is Uber are taking to much cut . They had been taken from my total fare up to 70%some time. then in the end it is legal robbery .. happy to hear about ab5 no more limo all around the corner for 4$ ride at the drivers expenses


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

A


AvisDeene said:


> I'm not in California but if something like AB5 came to my state, I'd rather agree to your suggestion. The only other thing I'd want is a base pay of $1.40 a mile, 30¢ a minute and a minimum fare of $6.00. Oh, and full trip information before we accept a trip.
> 
> I'd never complain about LyUber again and they can charge and keep all surges if they want.


I like the idea of tweaking the platform while still keeping the unique freedom that being a driver provides us.



Gby said:


> Uber fare are not bad the problem is Uber are taking to much cut . They had been taken from my total fare up to 70%some time. then in the end it is legal robbery .. happy to hear about ab5 no more limo all around the corner for 4$ ride at the drivers expenses


AB5 as it is written is a fairy tale it will never work.
You have to recognize that the gig economy is a hybrid that does not clearly fit into IC or employee status.
The care package safed my bacon big time. Uber gave me 10 cheap masks and a sign to hang in my car.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> A
> 
> I like the idea of tweaking the platform while still keeping the unique freedom that being a driver provides us.
> 
> ...


That mean they treat you as employee not as contractor ..contractors are taking all their responsibility another part never interfere in their business exempt to make payment .. Uber also are taking drivers picture and are selling to many others corporation around the world to develop their face reconigntion . And it is illegal


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

No I do not want to be treated as an employee. I am just trying to split the baby to make it work for everyone involved.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> A
> 
> I like the idea of tweaking the platform while still keeping the unique freedom that being a driver provides us.
> 
> ...


Which care package saved your bacon?


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gby said:


> Uber fare are not bad the problem is Uber are taking to much cut . They had been taken from my total fare up to 70%some time. then in the end it is legal robbery .. happy to hear about ab5 no more limo all around the corner for 4$ ride at the drivers expenses


During the 120 days of change they said diamond drivers would get 70% split. They also said the old style surge would come back. For about a month it was great Uber responded with every concern the driver had. Then Travis sold his stock the activist investors put there nose where it doesn't belong and well we got this



observer said:


> Which care package saved your bacon?


Letting gig workers get UI and also the extra 600. They did what Uber should have done for it's diamond drivers


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> During the 120 days of change they said diamond drivers would get 70% split. They also said the old style surge would come back. For about a month it was great Uber responded with every concern the driver had. Then Travis sold his stock the activist investors put there nose where it doesn't belong and well we got this


Then their activist investor can keep their stick in their ass and loos all the money &#128512; they went way to far by stacking billions after poor drivers unfair pay . In the end their investment are =0 just hoax to manipulate government regulators


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Gby said:


> That mean they treat you as employee not as contractor ..contractors are taking all their responsibility another part never interfere in their business exempt to make payment .. Uber also are taking drivers picture and are selling to many others corporation around the world to develop their face reconigntion . And it is illegal


If they really treated us as a contractor, we would be able to choose our own rates, get full trip details before we pick up without having to consider our "acceptance rating" and be able to process payments with our own choice of company or accept cash. They don't treat us as contractors, they treat us as employees with none of the benefits.


----------



## taxicab technology (Aug 20, 2020)

AvisDeene said:


> If they really treated us as a contractor, we would be able to choose our own rates, get full trip details before we pick up without having to consider our "acceptance rating" and be able to process payments with our own choice of company or accept cash. They don't treat us as contractors, they treat us as employees with none of the benefits.


yup just let me set my per min per mile to a legal rate with a minimum bar it cant be set under regulated by the state, give me the details of my contract before i have to accept it and gtf out the way

its all games tricks fraud to get drivers to work for illegal wages, free, or actually pay to give rides


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

AvisDeene said:


> If they really treated us as a contractor, we would be able to choose our own rates, get full trip details before we pick up without having to consider our "acceptance rating" and be able to process payments with our own choice of company or accept cash. They don't treat us as contractors, they treat us as employees with none of the benefits.


Well we have been debating this forever.
Are we going to keep doing he said she said or actually do something that both sides can agree upon.
Gig is something that has never existed and has to be approached differently.
I am willing to compromise on something's but not core issues that keep me an IC


----------



## KingTravisHasNoClothes (Jun 11, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


Sorry but Uber/Lyft did this all on their own. As for Uber leaving California, not a chance! As a driver with over 8000+ rides I would remind anyone that on the first day of driving for duber is the day you should be planning your exit from Uber. Uber's goal all along was to develop the autonomous vehicle. Drivers were a bridge to that goal, then to be discarded like TP stuck to one's shoe. Uber refers to drivers as "partners", if one was to look up the definition of that word it would have been your first clue that we were all being played. Anyway I was looking for a gig when duber came along. Trust me, your best day will be when Uber is in your rear view mirror.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

KingTravisHasNoClothes said:


> Sorry but Uber/Lyft did this all on their own. As for Uber leaving California, not a chance! As a driver with over 8000+ rides I would remind anyone that on the first day of driving for duber is the day you should be planning your exit from Uber. Uber's goal all along was to develop the autonomous vehicle. Drivers were a bridge to that goal, then to be discarded like TP stuck to one's shoe. Uber refers to drivers as "partners", if one was to look up the definition of that word it would have been your first clue that we were all being played. Anyway I was looking for a gig when duber came along. Trust me, your best day will be when Uber is in your rear view mirror.


Agree with you on most issues. The chance of Uber hiring all the drivers in CA ? Sorry that is not going to happen. Remember I have asked any driver who has been hired to post on here. All I get is sound of crickets.


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Knowing the destination before you actually except it will never happen. There will be way too many cherry pickers and nobody would get moved. That was proven in the taxi industry of long time ago


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> During the 120 days of change they said diamond drivers would get 70% split. They also said the old style surge would come back. For about a month it was great Uber responded with every concern the driver had. Then Travis sold his stock the activist investors put there nose where it doesn't belong and well we got this
> 
> 
> Letting gig workers get UI and also the extra 600. They did what Uber should have done for it's diamond drivers


&#129300;

Do you mean the Unemployment Insurance that EMPLOYEES get that UBER didn't pay a dime of and TAXPAYERS will wind up paying, taxpayers as in YOU and ME?

That UI?


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## NauticalWheeler (Jun 15, 2019)

waldowainthrop said:


> I have no idea, either. It's hitting Uber and Lyft at a low moment - can you imagine what their investors think right now? &#128517;


Their investors include the public now...


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> Knowing the destination before you actually except it will never happen. There will be way too many cherry pickers and nobody would get moved. That was proven in the taxi industry of long time ago


While what you say is true for the most part the fare multiplier is a game changer for those who use it wisely. Ants that decline $3-4 short rides while waiting for something better haven't figured out yet that there may be an ant out there sitting at 4.0x and gets the ride for $12 or more. Yeah some pax will decline and they will either walk that short distance or wait and wait and wait for that desperate ant to pick them up.

I've had a lot of pax thank me for picking them up at 4.0x for a short ride when nobody else would pick them up. It's not always about the cheapest rate for pax, most just want a ride and have no idea what a fair rate is.


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## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Well we have been debating this forever.
> Are we going to keep doing he said she said or actually do something that both sides can agree upon.
> Gig is something that has never existed and has to be approached differently.
> I am willing to compromise on something's but not core issues that keep me an IC


Drivers could have done something a long time ago. As I have said earlier, if the drivers came together and went on strike, we would have been able to force LyUber to treat us better. Instead, drivers were too greedy and didn't care about each other and refused to strike when others went to protest.

The drivers who support AB5 most likely didn't want to become employees, but wanted better, fair wages, but since their fellow drivers didn't care about them, they didn't get it and are now supporting AB5.

It's too late for drivers to come together now. The damage is done and there is too much ill will towards the drivers and the company. If you're unhappy with being made an employee, blame the drivers who refused to protest and were only worried about making a quick buck.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> Knowing the destination before you actually except it will never happen. There will be way too many cherry pickers and nobody would get moved. That was proven in the taxi industry of long time ago


How about Everytime a ride is cancelled a premium is added to that destination. So say 5 drivers don't take it by the 6th request that one time bad ride has turned into a good ride.



AvisDeene said:


> Drivers could have done something a long time ago. As I have said earlier, if the drivers came together and went on strike, we would have been able to force LyUber to treat us better. Instead, drivers were too greedy and didn't care about each other and refused to strike when others went to protest.
> 
> The drivers who support AB5 most likely didn't want to become employees, but wanted better, fair wages, but since their fellow drivers didn't care about them, they didn't get it and are now supporting AB5.
> 
> It's too late for drivers to come together now. The damage is done and there is too much ill will towards the drivers and the company. If you're unhappy with being made an employee, blame the drivers who refused to protest and were only worried about making a quick buck.


I respect your view.
But honestly as someone in the trenches I saw how absurd the idea of a work stoppage was.
I would hear from family's and friends and riders about being on strike and I would laugh and say that's news to me.


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> How about Everytime a ride is cancelled a premium is added to that destination. So say 5 drivers don't take it by the 6th request that one time bad ride has turned into a good ride.
> 
> 
> I respect your view.
> ...


Why was work stoppage absurd? It would have literally forced LyUbers hand to comply with most of the drivers demands. Or was it absurd because drivers like you wanted to make money while not thinking about the future?


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

AvisDeene said:


> Why was work stoppage absurd? It would have literally forced LyUbers hand to comply with most of the drivers demands. Or was it absurd because drivers like you wanted to make money while not thinking about the future?


You see if they are not regulated they start when they wants they stop when they wants ...the States not even supposed to let them in the market in any State without imposing them condition how to treat workers .. workers will find work somewhere else but them not going to find another market if State strongly regulated them ..when enough are never enough they fail in treat trap ..To hell with Uber and Lyft


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

AvisDeene said:


> Why was work stoppage absurd? It would have literally forced LyUbers hand to comply with most of the drivers demands. Or was it absurd because drivers like you wanted to make money while not thinking about the future?


Let's stop the insults and try to talk like adults.
I new you could NEVER get the drivers to do it.
So knowing that I am going to throw away a paycheck ?
Sorry that ain't going to happen.
As it turned out I was right. 
If it makes you feel better there were no strikes in my state so I did not make extra money.



Gby said:


> You see if they are not regulated they start when they wants they stop when they wants ...the States not even supposed to let them in the market in any State without imposing them condition how to treat workers .. workers will find work somewhere else but them not going to find another market if State strongly regulated them ..when enough are never enough they fail in treat trap ..To hell with Uber and Lyft


That just set the uberpeople.net record for longest sentence ever on this site.
Beat the old record by 7 words for those keeping track.
It was not easy researching every post but I did it.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

and lyft officially announced the suspension of operations staring at noon today.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

njn said:


> and lyft officially announced the suspension of operations staring at noon today.


Such a surprise !!! NOT it gets boring always being right


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

njn said:


> and lyft officially announced the suspension of operations staring at noon today.


God tx. to California legislators we do not need predator corporation in this modern era.


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## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Let's stop the insults and try to talk like adults.
> I new you could NEVER get the drivers to do it.
> So knowing that I am going to throw away a paycheck ?
> Sorry that ain't going to happen.
> ...


You or any other driver wouldn't have thrown a paycheck away. All it would have required of you is to not work on Fridays and Saturdays. That's it. Drivers could work extra hours on other days and it would have made LyUber beg for us to stop with the protests.

And you're right, it was never going to happen because people are too selfish. Now they're going to pay for that selfishness by losing even more money by not being able to work part time any more.

My posts never contained any insults. I'm just stating facts. Due to the inaction and of drivers and their desire to make money irregardless of how their fellow drivers are suffering, they will now have to pay for it by becoming employees or finding new jobs.
No one should have been surprised by what is happening, even Uber state's their goal was to get rid of Drivers in the end. People should have had a plan B a long time ago.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

the official shutdown is midnight, altough some articles are reporting noon. it would have been more fun if it happened at lunch time.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gby said:


> God tx. to California legislators we do not need predator corporation in this modern era.


That is such a huge softball coming down the pipe at me it would not be fair to take a swing at it



njn said:


> the official shutdown is midnight, altough some articles are reporting noon. it would have been more fun if it happened at lunch time.


Yea high noon at the OK corral with Matt Dillon


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

even lyft is saying get a real job, work for amazon: " *Amazon* has open job opportunities that Lyft drivers can apply to. "

https://www.lyft.com/driver/californiaupdate


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

njn said:


> even lyft is saying get a real job, work for amazon: " *Amazon* has open job opportunities that Lyft drivers can apply to. "
> 
> https://www.lyft.com/driver/californiaupdate


Sorry I had to laugh. . . . My son drives uber and lyft, but not recently, just sitting at home taking the unemployment and the additional money from the gov. He has been working uber and lyft as his only job and I have told him, Uber and lyft is a good side job, but you need to get a Real job. Just think ( and know its not going to be a popular statement) that people who are working for Uber and lyft ( as a full time job) are people that dont want to go out and find a real job, they want a job on their terms not the company's. So I laugh when in CA they attempted to force the companies to do it on their terms. . . and won. . and thus we have the current situation.

Good job. .

and thats why I laugh


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

njn said:


> even lyft is saying get a real job, work for amazon: " *Amazon* has open job opportunities that Lyft drivers can apply to. "
> 
> https://www.lyft.com/driver/californiaupdate


And did you trust the Evil meaning ..you never heard Evil could not be trusted ..now they gambling as always they did . If Government are not taking action they will explore workers without paying workers the right fare


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Hey maybe drivers will end up benefiting from this. That was nice of Lyft.


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## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

Kilroy4303 said:


> Its a work as you want business... . how the heck is that slavery. You know the business and what it entails going into it. It is your choice to sign up and work for them knowing you are going to use your car. .. so wear and tear comes with the job. .. the important thing to remember ITS YOUR CHOICE TO WORK FOR THEM. so by dictionary definition its not slavery. God I hate these people who think they can just sign up, and complain and whine about of I didn't get this, Oh I didn't get that. WHEN IT WASNT OFFERD IN THE FIRST PLACE. Well. .. .. . .you got want you want. . You're now an employee. .. and the company has chosen to reduce hours and shut down til they can figure out how to make it a business again.
> 
> TX to california. .. .? NO TX to all you entitled idiots who didnt think about this before you complained. .. .
> You got what you wanted congratulations
> View attachment 500202


Why is it so difficult for you to understand what "misclassification" is in regards to U/L? You were called an IC on paper but under the law U/L treated you more like an employee. So now the RS companies want to create new exemptions all for themselves. You worked more like a sharecropper though.


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## ant-phillips (Jul 2, 2018)

Of course U/L could’ve allowed their drivers to work as true freelancers and all this could’ve been avoided. AB5 is creating havoc all over California with actual freelancers. And now it has ****ed U/L drivers.

It’s not like Uber drivers want to be employees - **** that. They want to make money (I say ‘they‘ because I stopped driving 2 years ago). As freelancer you can shop for your own insurance, drive who you choose to without repercussions (within reason).

Freelancers by definition are allowed to set their own rate. No one has to hire you - but you negotiate your own terms. Uber essentially does this without the driver. Which is such bullshit.

U/L should be a service for drivers, not the reverse.

I’m very hopeful that a new, driver friendly ride-share company/service quickly takes their place. Drivers deserve that.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> Sorry I had to laugh. . . . My son drives uber and lyft, but not recently, just sitting at home taking the unemployment and the additional money from the gov. He has been working uber and lyft as his only job and I have told him, Uber and lyft is a good side job, but you need to get a Real job. Just think ( and know its not going to be a popular statement) that people who are working for Uber and lyft ( as a full time job) are people that dont want to go out and find a real job, they want a job on their terms not the company's. So I laugh when in CA they attempted to force the companies to do it on their terms. . . and won. . and thus we have the current situation.
> 
> Good job. .
> 
> and thats why I laugh


To be honest I tried to decipher just what your point is and I really could not.


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Woohaa said:


> Why is it so difficult for you to understand what "misclassification" is in regards to U/L? You were called an IC on paper but under the law U/L treated you more like an employee. So now the RS companies want to create new exemptions all for themselves. You worked more like a sharecropper though.


I worked as I wanted to work with the free ability to sever any relations at any time. .. .
If you didn't like how you were treated you could always go somewhere else.

In the long run . .. doesn't matter. 
You wanted to be employees. You are now employees.
Have Fun driving. . .. 
Oh wait. .. you cant. .they shut down.

Good job.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gby said:


> And did you trust the Evil meaning ..you never heard Evil could not be trusted ..now they gambling as always they did . If Government are not taking action they will explore workers without paying workers the right fare


I have never had so much trouble understanding so many replys.


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## njn (Jan 23, 2016)

there are dozens of exemptions for independent contractors. california singled out dynamex, uber and lyft.

https://www.nfib.com/content/legal-...alifornias-new-independent-contracting-rules/


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> I worked as I wanted to work with the free ability to sever any relations at any time. .. .
> If you didn't like how you were treated you could always go somewhere else.
> 
> In the long run . .. doesn't matter.
> ...


It is sad that the drivers who feel like you and me have to suffer



njn said:


> there are dozens of exemptions for independent contractors. california singled out dynamex, uber and lyft.
> 
> https://www.nfib.com/content/legal-...alifornias-new-independent-contracting-rules/


Well one thing I don't want to give up is my 56 cents a mile deduction in April. Schedule C is my friend


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> To be honest I tried to decipher just what your point is and I really could not.


I view Uber and lyft as a way to supplant my income, extra money. Unless you are working at the UBER or LYFT corporate HQ or its subsidiaries, do I consider it a full time job or something. Still feel that any one who got into this for a full time job was just taking it because it would the easiest job to get on their terms or put any effort into getting a real job. ITs a side job was always meant to be that way.



Jimmy44 said:


> It is sad that the drivers who feel like you and me have to suffer


Give thanks to all the Karens.

and yes you can spout how I don't understand all the legalities of misclassification etc etc.
explain to me this :

You got the status you want and now the service you relied upon to make money is saying. . .well. . we cant afford to do it the way you want.
so we are shutting down the service you relied upon. 
How does that help you. . .?

I still think the majority of drivers are part time drivers who have another source of income ( ie: a real job) and not full time drivers.
The full time drivers became the squeaky wheel. . . . . well sometimes instead of fixing the squeaky wheel , they just throw it away. . .


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Kilroy4303 said:


> I still think the majority of drivers are part time drivers who have another source of income


direct from Uber and other sources 80% of active Uber drivers are online <= to 30 hours per week. I'd day most of them RS is a 2nd source and for some (like me) it's a retirement gig for time management only.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> I view Uber and lyft as a way to supplant my income, extra money. Unless you are working at the UBER or LYFT corporate HQ or its subsidiaries, do I consider it a full time job or something. Still feel that any one who got into this for a full time job was just taking it because it would the easiest job to get on their terms or put any effort into getting a real job. ITs a side job was always meant to be that way.


You have to understand that 4 years ago drivers were leaving good mid level management jobs to drive full time. 
I did for the money and I enjoyed it.
It has turned into basically a terrible way to make extra income.
I did it for four years and did very well until March 2020.
The govt. saved my bacon with UI and the 600.
When and if there is a cure I will revaluate my situation.



SHalester said:


> direct from Uber and other sources 80% of active Uber drivers are online <= to 30 hours per week. I'd day most of them RS is a 2nd source and for some (like me) it's a retirement gig for time management only.


I did it full time for four years only source of income.
First 3 everything was great. Last year I did as good money wise but it was like swimming upstream against the tide.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> I did it full time for four years only source of income.


and possibily that puts in you in the remaining 20%. Even during my 'younger' years I could NOT have done RS full time. First, not enough cheese and second, well just no way jose.


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> You have to understand that 4 years ago drivers were leaving good mid level management jobs to drive full time.
> I did for the money and I enjoyed it.
> It has turned into basically a terrible way to make extra income.
> I did it for four years and did very well until March 2020.
> ...


I do understand that a lot of people did what you did in your situation and to be honest I have a few years left in my Military service (<5). When I get out I plan to still drive Uber to supplant any income I get from my retirement. I also have plans to go into another job source of income that I did before I entered the army and already have offers when I do . I do enjoy driving, and would do it full time if I could. However I do it with the understanding of what I am getting into. It sounds like you did some research and did the same thing, evaluated it and it was a good fit. 
All I am saying is people got into this with the knowledge ( or lack there of if you didn't do your research. . .shame on you ..that's your fault) of what to expect, and you cant start screaming when the company didn't change what it was to meet your new expectations or needs. That's like getting married and complaining to your spouse that they aren't who you want them to be. .. .. you have the same choice. . .. re-evaluate and leave if you don't like it. .. which is what CA is doing, you shouted they aren't what you want them to be. .. so they are re evaluating. . and may leave ,


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

It was the perfect storm for me. All the stars lined up perfectly.


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## Zoomzoom321 (Jan 10, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


The only entities to blame are UBER and LYFT. Two extremely exploitive companies who've treated drivers like crap for YEARS. They kept playing games, ignoring driver demands, and now it's finally backfired on them and they're throwing a tantrum.


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

I don't see it at as the Companies throwing a tantrum. They ran a service which the drivers VOLUNTARILY worked for/with. If you didn't like what the companies offered or the treatment STOP WORKING FOR THEM. No instead they yelled, screamed and complained. Well you got y our wish. . and Ill say once again. . . You are now employees for a company that didn't offer you employee status. So they cut your hours. . .shut down and now deprive you of the very service you wanted to be an employee of. . .

Brave, mission accomplished. .. . . that's like killing the patient to cure the desease

way to go


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> I don't see it at as the Companies throwing a tantrum. They ran a service which the drivers VOLUNTARILY worked for/with. If you didn't like what the companies offered or the treatment STOP WORKING FOR THEM. No instead they yelled, screamed and complained. Well you got y our wish. . and Ill say once again. . . You are now employees for a company that didn't offer you employee status. So they cut your hours. . .shut down and now deprive you of the very service you wanted to be an employee of. . .
> 
> Brave, mission accomplished. .. . . that's like killing the patient to cure the desease
> 
> way to go


Then in the end no employee will work for them if are not making money .Uber not going to make any money if they buy their own cars Riders not going to wait for Uber to fix their issue . It is time for change no more cars at every corner at drivers expenses


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Gby said:


> Then in the end no employee will work for them if are not making money .Uber not going to make any money if they buy their own cars Riders not going to wait for Uber to fix their issue . It is time for change no more cars at every corner at drivers expenses


Trying to decipher what some of this means.
Far as I can tell the vast majority of the drivers were not demanding employment. . .so that tells me that they were willing to drive they way things were. So you have a minority group making allthe noise and ruined it for everyone.. .

the Take my ball and go home attitude. .. . .
well you went home and no one is calling for you to play. . .. .


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## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> Trying to decipher what some of this means.
> Far as I can tell the vast majority of the drivers were not demanding employment. . .so that tells me that they were willing to drive they way things were. So you have a minority group making allthe noise and ruined it for everyone.. .
> 
> the Take my ball and go home attitude. .. . .
> well you went home and no one is calling for you to play. . .. .


No drivers demanded to be employee they demanded the right fare living wages but with this predators corporation no one could negotiate with them till Government interfered in workers protection ..some one need to protect all of this people .. you need to understand if Government are not protecting people all corporation it follow each other to explore people .. look at Amazon they destroy all small and big retailer and millions of people left without job then billions go in Amazon account ..


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Zoomzoom321 said:


> The only entities to blame are UBER and LYFT. Two extremely exploitive companies who've treated drivers like crap for YEARS. They kept playing games, ignoring driver demands, and now it's finally backfired on them and they're throwing a tantrum.


Again I do not get how


Kilroy4303 said:


> Trying to decipher what some of this means.
> Far as I can tell the vast majority of the drivers were not demanding employment. . .so that tells me that they were willing to drive they way things were. So you have a minority group making allthe noise and ruined it for everyone.. .
> 
> the Take my ball and go home attitude. .. . .
> well you went home and no one is calling for you to play. . .. .


Perfect you hit the nail on the head.


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Gby said:


> No drivers demanded to be employee they demanded the right fare living wages but with this predators corporation no one could negotiate with them till Government interfered in workers protection ..some one need to protect all of this people .. you need to understand if Government are not protecting people all corporation it follow each other to explore people .. look at Amazon they destroy all small and big retailer and millions of people left without job then billions go in Amazon account ..


You set your own time, your set your own schedule, you drive as much as you want , and you drive as little as you want. 
Before you start driving they set down all the requirements for both parties.. . its called the legal statement that all drivers have to read before they do anything. ( Yes I know most people just hit agree and move on. If you didn't read the agreement. . .then that's on you. . . .) You need to protect your self before you expect any one else to do it for you..

Lookup the term Caveat Emptor. . .we bought into their service. . ..


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

The Internal Revenue Service for the United States of America has defined employee and independent contractor status for at 30 years that I know of.

I was given the opportunity to be an employee 30 years ago. The company would pay my E&O insurance, supply a desk with a computer, pay my assistant and pay for my continuing education. The downside was I had to use a time clock, lose my home office deduction, and had to accept their assignments at their fee. Doing the exact same job but from home instead of their office, I became an IC. They still sent me work at their fee but I had the right to decline any assignment. By the IRS standards I was, and still am, an IC.

An IC runs a business, they can make money or they can lose money. If a business accepts a contract that causes them to lose money its their fault. For example, I offer a contract for someone to cut my grass for $10 and they accept and then discover my lawn is 10 acres. Whose fault is that? Should I be forced to pay the inept mower minimum wage or should the mower learn their business?

An employee gets a guaranteed check with no risk. A business owner takes risks and they must know how to run their business.

Businesses organizing with similar businesses with the intention of fixing pricing is called collusion and is illegal.

_edit: Kilroy, you just wrote what I basically just wrote. You beat me by 1 minute!_


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gby said:


> No drivers demanded to be employee they demanded the right fare living wages but with this predators corporation no one could negotiate with them till Government interfered in workers protection ..some one need to protect all of this people .. you need to understand if Government are not protecting people all corporation it follow each other to explore people .. look at Amazon they destroy all small and big retailer and millions of people left without job then billions go in Amazon account ..


I understand your frustrations.
There is nothing wrong with being mad at Uber and lobbying for change.
Things got way out of hand and a small minority of drivers and pandering liberal politicians turned the entire thing into a mockery


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

bsliv said:


> The Internal Revenue Service for the United States of America has defined employee and independent contractor status for at 30 years that I know of.
> 
> I was given the opportunity to be an employee 30 years ago. The company would pay my E&O insurance, supply a desk with a computer, pay my assistant and pay for my continuing education. The downside was I had to use a time clock, lose my home office deduction, and had to accept their assignments at their fee. Doing the exact same job but from home instead of their office, I became an IC. They still sent me work at their fee but I had the right to decline any assignment. By the IRS standards I was, and still am, an IC.
> 
> ...


So from this I am assuming you are saying that we are IC's as drivers for UBER?


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## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Kilroy4303 said:


> So from this I am assuming you are saying that we are IC's as drivers for UBER?


Yes, according the the IRS. But if someone uses a different definition, maybe. But why change the definition?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> You set your own time, your set your own schedule, you drive as much as you want , and you drive as little as you want.
> Before you start driving they set down all the requirements for both parties.. . its called the legal statement that all drivers have to read before they do anything. ( Yes I know most people just hit agree and move on. If you didn't read the agreement. . .then that's on you. . . .) You need to protect your self before you expect any one else to do it for you..
> 
> Lookup the term Caveat Emptor. . .we bought into their service. . ..


Outstanding I have been spouting exactly that since AB5 was introduced. I was in the minority and took a lot of guff because of it


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Outstanding I have been spouting exactly that since AB5 was introduced. I was in the minority and took a lot of guff because of it


All I am saying. .is that . . .if you don't read the contract before you sign it. . . .you cant ***** about it later


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> So from this I am assuming you are saying that we are IC's as drivers for UBER?


Yes I also am not sure if your saying Uber drivers are IC ?


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## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Yes I am most definitely saying RS drivers are Independent contractors.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> All I am saying. .is that . . .if you don't read the contract before you sign it. . . .you cant @@@@@ about it later


I was in the minority for a year. I never waivered as I knew AB5 was a joke. Your spot on with your reply.



Kilroy4303 said:


> Yes I am most definitely saying RS drivers are Independent contractors.
> 
> That describes EXACTLY what UBER and LYFT were offering. . .. . .


Yes I never waivered from that premise. The mere thought that they weren't was ludicrous to me. Your totally correct.


----------



## taxicab technology (Aug 20, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> Knowing the destination before you actually except it will never happen. There will be way too many cherry pickers and nobody would get moved. That was proven in the taxi industry of long time ago


it already happens in cali per ab5 and for diamond poo poo status drivers not to mention for 5+ years ive either called, texted, started trip 10 seconds early to get mine and cancelled 90+% of them not going to the airport as thats pretty much the only ride that pays a legal wage since 2015 & thats on xl only lmao i cant imagine a $4-8 ride id shoot myself, i cancel while waving at them and drive back home eating the $1-2 loss instead of completing the trip & losing $4+ & least 20 minutes of my time, well used to last few years i dont evel leave house until they let me know its airport lol theyll eventuall cancel if they dont answer phone or text back lol they want to burn 20 minutes thats on them im on the couch


----------



## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> Knowing the destination before you actually except it will never happen. There will be way too many cherry pickers and nobody would get moved. That was proven in the taxi industry of long time ago


When my app alerts me to rides, it tells me how long it will take to get there and approximately how long the ride will be. .. I base my decision on that . .

Doesn't everyone get that info ?


----------



## taxicab technology (Aug 20, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> I don't see it at as the Companies throwing a tantrum. They ran a service which the drivers VOLUNTARILY worked for/with. If you didn't like what the companies offered or the treatment STOP WORKING FOR THEM. No instead they yelled, screamed and complained. Well you got y our wish. . and Ill say once again. . . You are now employees for a company that didn't offer you employee status. So they cut your hours. . .shut down and now deprive you of the very service you wanted to be an employee of. . .
> 
> Brave, mission accomplished. .. . . that's like killing the patient to cure the desease
> 
> way to go


illegal terms in contracts are not binding neither are blank contracts

theyve been sued and lost multiple times for fraud, lying in job recruitment ads, what i signed up in 2014 is not what it is now and you cant agree to work for free or illegal wages

btw
96% DO stop working for them by design because its a human trafficking app and ponzi scheme but congrats on being the 4% that can figure it out


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

taxicab.tech said:


> it already happens in cali per ab5 and for diamond poo poo status drivers not to mention for 5+ years ive either called, texted, started trip 10 seconds early to get mine and cancelled 90+% of them not going to the airport as thats pretty much the only ride that pays a legal wage since 2015 & thats on xl only lmao i cant imagine a $4-8 ride id shoot myself, i cancel while waving at them and drive back home eating the $1-2 loss instead of completing the trip & losing $4+ & least 20 minutes of my time, well used to last few years i dont evel leave house until they let me know its airport lol theyll eventuall cancel if they dont answer phone or text back lol they want to burn 20 minutes thats on them im on the couch


Ok this reply just broke the record for longest sentence by 12 words.


----------



## taxicab technology (Aug 20, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> When my app alerts me to rides, it tells me how long it will take to get there and approximately how long the ride will be. .. I base my decision on that . .
> 
> Doesn't everyone get that info ?


I need to know where drop off is at illegal 1970s wages so i can perform due dilligence per my legal rights to determine if the trip is a legal request. If not going 10+ miles its most likely trying to deFRAUD me into working for free or illegal wages

my uber app tells me nothing every year for 5+ years its degraded on purpose to try to hide more and more details with the sole purpose of trying to deFRAUD me which is illegal

now if it was $2 a mile like in 2004 i wouldnt care as much but its .60-$1.10xl a mile from 1974-1985 and that matters lmao cuz i cans do math & i nose werk 4 free holmes or illegal wages you can have your $2 its not 1985 its 2021 and a pandemic which has real companies paying hazard pay to risk covid


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

taxicab.tech said:


> illegal terms in contracts are not binding neither are blank contracts
> 
> theyve been sued and lost multiple times for fraud, lying in job recruitment ads, what i signed up in 2014 is not what it is now and you cant agree to work for free or illegal wages
> 
> ...


I get your frustrations.
But there are a lot of holes in your explanations.


----------



## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok this reply just broke the record for longest sentence by 12 words.


Wow never noticed that .. . .I use to teach English .. and never noticed the run on sentnce.. . . .
while it is grammatically incorrect. . . it is impressive


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

As


Jimmy44 said:


> I get your frustrations.
> But there are a lot of holes in your explanations.


As a diamond driver I get the length of the ride. That was a great perk for being diamond.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> I understand your frustrations.
> There is nothing wrong with being mad at Uber and lobbying for change.
> Things got way out of hand and a small minority of drivers and pandering liberal politicians turned the entire thing into a mockery


Well everyone learn from their own mistakes now Uber Lyft can go to hell what easy come easy go ..


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> Wow never noticed that .. . .I use to teach English .. and never noticed the run on sentnce.. . . .
> while it is grammatically incorrect. . . it is impressive


Exactly


----------



## taxicab technology (Aug 20, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> I get your frustrations.
> But there are a lot of holes in your explanations.


not frustrated at all im a MAN isince i started 5 years ago I get my details i learned eveything my first day lol no holes at all i can do math 90+% of requests since 2015 are attempts to deFRAUD me into working for free or illegal wages periodt

i am not a child i can do math


----------



## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

taxicab.tech said:


> I need to know where drop off is at illegal 1970s wages so i can perform due dilligence per my legal rights to determine if the trip is a legal request. If not going 10+ miles its most likely trying to deFRAUD me into working for free or illegal wages
> 
> my uber app tells me nothing every year for 5+ years its degraded on purpose to try to hide more and more details with the sole purpose of trying to deFRAUD me which is illegal
> 
> now if it was $2 a mile like in 2004 i wouldnt care as much but its .60-$1.10xl a mile from 1974-1985 and that matters lmao cuz i cans do math & i nose werk 4 free holmes or illegal wages you can have your $2 its not 1985 its 2021 and a pandemic which has real companies paying hazard pay to risk covid


Drivers are INDEPENDANT contractors. You are your own Boss. So your using the service is YOUR business. So if you run your business, and your business doesn't earn you at lest minimum wage you blame the product that gave you the business or you blame the consumer which you use your business?

Okay . .whatever works for you .. . .


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Un


Gby said:


> Well everyone learn from their own mistakes now Uber Lyft can go to hell what easy come easy go ..
> [/QUOTE
> Understand your frustrations. If spouting about how U/L are responsible for all the ills in this world go ahead. It's better then kicking the cat.





taxicab.tech said:


> not frustrated at all im a MAN isince i started 5 years ago I get my details i learned eveything my first day lol no holes at all i can do math 90+% of requests since 2015 are attempts to deFRAUD me into working for free or illegal wages periodt
> 
> i am not a child i can do math


So glad your not frustrated. Would really hate to read your posts when you are.


----------



## taxicab technology (Aug 20, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> Drivers are INDEPENDANT contractors. You are your own Boss. So your using the service is YOUR business. So if you run your business, and your business doesn't earn you at lest minimum wage you blame the product that gave you the business or you blame the consumer which you use your business?
> 
> Okay . .whatever works for you .. . .


if i was an independent contractor i would be able to view my contract prior to having to accept it for one as EVERY HUMAN has a right to details of a contract before signing it and if it contains illegal terms like having to work for free or illegal wages even if i accept or sign it, it is in breach for such terms.

sorry i nor any human in america can agree to a job that in the end paid out $3 an hour this isnt rocket science its on the receipt

if i was an independent contrator i could set my own rates too for 2

every human has the right to do due dilligence on their contracts

i could list a dozen other things that dont make me an independent contractor for uber lyft they treat me like an employee by threatning me over cancel rate, no due process or evidence needed on pax who lie etc etc etc

most drivers are seniors and immigrants happy for $3 an hour because it beats zero they are NOT independent contractors they are modern day slaves


----------



## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Gby said:


> Well everyone learn from their own mistakes now Uber Lyft can go to hell what easy come easy go ..


Well technically, I guess Uber and Lyft learning from their mistakes and all the drivers in CA can go to hell. . &#8230; technically speaking from a metaphorical point of view

and seriously if you don't agree or like it or aren't earning enough . .. . .. . go somewhere else its that simple and you can do that . . .



taxicab technology said:


> if i was an independent contractor i would be able to view my contract prior to having to accept it for one as EVERY HUMAN has a right to details of a contract before signing it and if it contains illegal terms like having to work for free or illegal wages even if i accept or sign it, it is in breach for such terms.
> 
> sorry i nor any human in america can agree to a job that in the end paid out $3 an hour this isnt rocket science its on the receipt


When I went through I printed out all the legal statements and contracts and info they had available.. .. so I could go over them and do my "due dilligence"

and if youre only earning $3 an hour maybe youre not doing this right and its not the job for you


----------



## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

Kilroy4303 said:


> Drivers are INDEPENDANT contractors. You are your own Boss. So your using the service is YOUR business. So if you run your business, and your business doesn't earn you at lest minimum wage you blame the product that gave you the business or you blame the consumer which you use your business?
> 
> Okay . .whatever works for you .. . .


Pass the kool-aid please..... Seems like good shit.


----------



## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

W00dbutcher said:


> Pass the kool-aid please..... Seems like good shit.


Here you go Rev Jones


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

taxicab technology said:


> if i was an independent contractor i would be able to view my contract prior to having to accept it for one as EVERY HUMAN has a right to details of a contract before signing it and if it contains illegal terms like having to work for free or illegal wages even if i accept or sign it, it is in breach for such terms.
> 
> sorry i nor any human in america can agree to a job that in the end paid out $3 an hour this isnt rocket science its on the receipt
> 
> ...


You are upset and blame Uber and that's fine.
That's what this forum is for.
Nothing I can say is going to change your mind and that's ok as well.
Feel free to vent that's fine.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Kilroy4303 said:


> I don't see it at as the Companies throwing a tantrum. They ran a service which the drivers VOLUNTARILY worked for/with. If you didn't like what the companies offered or the treatment STOP WORKING FOR THEM. No instead they yelled, screamed and complained. Well you got y our wish. . and Ill say once again. . . You are now employees for a company that didn't offer you employee status. So they cut your hours. . .shut down and now deprive you of the very service you wanted to be an employee of. . .
> 
> Brave, mission accomplished. .. . . that's like killing the patient to cure the desease
> 
> way to go


This patient needs to die before they infect others.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> Drivers are INDEPENDANT contractors. You are your own Boss. So your using the service is YOUR business. So if you run your business, and your business doesn't earn you at lest minimum wage you blame the product that gave you the business or you blame the consumer which you use your business?
> 
> Okay . .whatever works for you .. . .


To me what you said is Crystal clear.
I don't think it's a very hard concept to grasp.


----------



## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> To me what you said is Crystal clear.
> I don't think it's a very hard concept to grasp.


well some people need help with the words that are longer than 2 syllables


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> This patient needs to die before they infect others.


Please read your reply and retract it. Nothing a person believes warrants that type of response. Read it again and think about what you said.


----------



## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Please read your reply and retract it. Nothing a person believes warrants that type of response. Read it again and think about what you said.


I think he was commenting metaphorically not literally. May not agree with what he said but I understand the intent behind the comment


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> Please read your reply and retract it. Nothing a person believes warrants that type of response. Read it again and think about what you said.


Uber and Lyfts employment model needs to die.

I know what I wrote.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> well some people need help with the words that are longer than 2 syllables


You know a lot are otherwise


Kilroy4303 said:


> I think he was commenting metaphorically not literally. May not agree with what he said but I understand the intent behind the comment


I understand how you can say something


observer said:


> Uber and Lyfts employment model needs to die.
> 
> I know what I wrote.


Ok I get it now thanks for the explanation.



Kilroy4303 said:


> I think he was commenting metaphorically not literally. May not agree with what he said but I understand the intent behind the comment


Yes he was talking about U/L dieing I misinterpreted it.


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Kilroy4303 said:


> Well technically, I guess Uber and Lyft learning from their mistakes and all the drivers in CA can go to hell. . &#8230; technically speaking from a metaphorical point of view
> 
> *and seriously if you don't agree or like it or aren't earning enough . .. . .. . go somewhere else its that simple and you can do that . . *.
> 
> ...


If all workers took your advice, we wouldn't have a minimum wage nor would we have benefits. Workers have every right to try and improve the working conditions for themselves just as you have the right to be complacent and do nothing. And if you don't like it, its simple, you can just go somewhere else.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> You set your own time, your set your own schedule, you drive as much as you want , and you drive as little as you want.
> Before you start driving they set down all the requirements for both parties.. . its called the legal statement that all drivers have to read before they do anything. ( Yes I know most people just hit agree and move on. If you didn't read the agreement. . .then that's on you. . . .) You need to protect your self before you expect any one else to do it for you..
> 
> Lookup the term Caveat Emptor. . .we bought into their service. . ..


How about those driver Uber put them in the hole and make discrimination by setting another's on priority ... This should be stopped forever and no corporation should be allowed to use this kind criminal tactics ..they should stop rating human as product with their rating system . They should stop building culture riders can take control over the drivers to do what they want otheways get disconnected from system .. Uber should stop take driver picture and sell all their data to another corporation araund the world... Simple Uber drivers are not contractors as Uber treat them ...going online only when they want it doesn't mean they are contractors ..Uber over hired drivers then are all the time in the streets more then they need


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> You know a lot are otherwise
> 
> I understand how you can say something
> 
> ...


Well they both appear on life support


AvisDeene said:


> If all workers took your advice, we wouldn't have a minimum wage nor would we have benefits. Workers have every right to try and improve the working conditions for themselves just as you have the right to be complacent and do nothing. And if you don't like it, its simple, you can just go somewhere else.


I am all for complaining about Uber and what I would like to see improved.
That being said there is a core to Uber that I don't feel I have the right to ask or want them to change.
Things that I have pined for has been 70% for diamond drivers as well as the old system of surge pricing.
I do not want and I would leave Uber if I ever lost IC status.
California just went nuclear on Uber and blamed them for everything.
It was like telling McDonalds to switch to Staples.
It never made one ounce of sense and hopefully CA will learn from this.


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Well they both appear on life support
> 
> I am all for complaining about Uber and what I would like to see improved.
> That being said there is a core to Uber that I don't feel I have the right to ask or want them to change.
> ...


I don't think most drivers want to be an employee, it's just LyUber did their best to avoid coming to the bargaining table. They brought this upon themselves, they deserve all the blame they get.

I just don't like it when people fault the drivers for wanting better conditions. They have every right to protest and fight for what they believe is fair. If workers of the past didn't fight for their rights, we wouldn't have 8 hour work days, benefits, or a minimum wage. We would still be in dark times and worked as if we were slaves.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

AvisDeene said:


> I don't think most drivers want to be an employee, it's just LyUber did their best to avoid coming to the bargaining table. They brought this upon themselves, they deserve all the blame they get.
> 
> I just don't like it when people fault the drivers for wanting better conditions. They have every right to protest and fight for what they believe is fair. If workers of the past didn't fight for their rights, we wouldn't have 8 hour work days, benefits, or a minimum wage. We would still be in dark times and worked as if we were slaves.


The big losers are the majority of drivers


AvisDeene said:


> I don't think most drivers want to be an employee, it's just LyUber did their best to avoid coming to the bargaining table. They brought this upon themselves, they deserve all the blame they get.
> 
> I just don't like it when people fault the drivers for wanting better conditions. They have every right to protest and fight for what they believe is fair. If workers of the past didn't fight for their rights, we wouldn't have 8 hour work days, benefits, or a minimum wage. We would still be in dark times and worked as if we were slaves.


The losers are the riders and the drivers who were happy with the status quo.
I don't want drivers and politicians ruining a source of income that has served me well for 5 years.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> The big losers are the majority of drivers
> 
> The losers are the riders and the drivers who were happy with the status quo.
> I don't want drivers and politicians ruining a source of income that has served me well for 5 years.


I know you are happy as is because you come from Papa Jon .. but we are talking about US transportation industry here not pizza delivery .. transportation are regulated it is not at corporation preferences ..


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gby said:


> I know you are happy as is because you come from Papa Jon .. but we are talking about US transportation industry here not pizza delivery .. transportation are regulated it is not at corporation preferences ..


Have know idea what you mean by Papa John I have never worked for them.
I did work full time for Uber for 5 years the last 4 bringing in 6 figures.
My guess is you are a disgruntled taxi driver that worked in an industry that grew fat and lazy and unable to shift and combat competition.


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> The big losers are the majority of drivers
> 
> The losers are the riders and the drivers who were happy with the status quo.
> I don't want drivers and politicians ruining a source of income that has served me well for 5 years.


Well then, they should have worked harder to keep the status quo, or should have cared enough about the drivers who struggled and stood with them to improve everyone's conditions. It's obvious you don't care for them, since all you care about is how it is working out for you, so don't be upset when they don't care about you.



> My guess is you are a disgruntled taxi driver that worked in an industry that grew fat and lazy and unable to shift and combat competition


This describes you perfectly. You got complacent, and now are disgruntled that you will have to change and combat competition.

The biggest losers are all of the cab drivers who lost their main source of income due to rideshare companies and the drivers who signed up for them. What goes around comes around.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

AvisDeene said:


> Well then, they should have worked harder to keep the status quo, or should have cared enough about the drivers who struggled and stood with them to improve everyone's conditions. It's obvious you don't care for them, since all you care about is how it is working out for you, so don't be upset when they don't care about you.
> 
> This describes you perfectly. You got complacent, and now are disgruntled that you will have to change and combat competition.
> 
> The biggest losers are all of the cab drivers who lost their main source of income due to rideshare companies and the drivers who signed up for them. What goes around comes around.


#1 the only thing I am upset about is this deadly virus.
Soon as it is over I will be back on the road killing it like I did the last five years.



AvisDeene said:


> Well then, they should have worked harder to keep the status quo, or should have cared enough about the drivers who struggled and stood with them to improve everyone's conditions. It's obvious you don't care for them, since all you care about is how it is working out for you, so don't be upset when they don't care about you.
> 
> This describes you perfectly. You got complacent, and now are disgruntled that you will have to change and combat competition.
> 
> The biggest losers are all of the cab drivers who lost their main source of income due to rideshare companies and the drivers who signed up for them. What goes around comes around.


I am not going to change. Soon as this virus is over I am out killing it as usual. 
I don't sniffle


----------



## AvisDeene (Jun 7, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> #1 the only thing I am upset about is this deadly virus.
> Soon as it is over I will be back on the road killing it like I did the last five years.
> 
> 
> ...


If that was true, you wouldn't be on here complaining and belittling drivers for wanting change.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Kilroy4303 said:


> Drivers are INDEPENDANT contractors. You are your own Boss. So your using the service is YOUR business.


So are hamburger flippers at McD.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> So are hamburger flippers at McD.


You have to explain the McDonalds comparison to an IC ?



AvisDeene said:


> If that was true, you wouldn't be on here complaining and belittling drivers for wanting change.


What does complaining about wanting more money have to do with going out and working ?
I do not belittle drivers. I disagree with them but do not belittle them.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> You have to explain the McDonalds comparison to an IC ?


If Uber drivers are their own bosses so are McD hamburger flippers.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> If Uber drivers are their own bosses so are McD workers.


Ok got it thanks for the explanation.
My first job was at McDonalds. I had to work my way up to working on the grill. Shakes, Fries and fish came before I ever touched a spatula. 
1.60 an hour and worked my way to 2.20 when I left.
My manager used to say " if you have time to lean you have time to clean ".
Believe me in those days working for McDonalds was as far from IC as you could be.


----------



## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> The people who think that Uber should be placated at any cost remind me of women who are afraid to leave abusive partners.
> 
> - "I can't leave him - I'd have nowhere to go!"
> - "I can't leave him - he pays for my food, and _does _let me go out on my own sometimes"
> ...


You're joking, right.
A circulating saw was enough to remove the wheel boot Uber installed on my vehicle between last night and this morning.
Then I uninstalled the app.
I am free.
Try it for yourself to be free of the tyranny of Uber.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

NauticalWheeler said:


> Their investors include the public now...


Who are the investors? Some riff raff, some speculators, plus some activist investors who want to crush workers under their boots?

I genuinely don't know. I haven't done my research on this topic and all I have is my prejudices and a lack of time spent researching it.


----------



## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Nats121 said:


> If Uber drivers are their own bosses so are McD hamburger flippers.


You gotta be kidding, right.


----------



## Woohaa (Jan 15, 2017)

Kilroy4303 said:


> I worked as I wanted to work with the free ability to sever any relations at any time. .. .
> If you didn't like how you were treated you could always go somewhere else.
> 
> In the long run . .. doesn't matter.
> ...


You confuse "treatment" with poverty level wages. The issue has never been about treatment. It was about misclassification and paying poverty level wages because of that misclassification.

Learn how to stand up for yourself in the future


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Woohaa said:


> You confuse "treatment" with poverty level wages. The issue has never been about treatment. It was about misclassification and paying poverty level wages because of that misclassification.
> 
> Learn how to stand up for yourself in the future


The point is Uber hired to many drivers and could not satisfied every body with the earning ..usually they use some drivers only few hours day then rest of the time they put them on hold for not getting trips only if demanded increase very high then for low demand they use some drivers as priority only ...those make satisfactory earning.. but without those on hold Uber cannot supply the demand ether so it is big mess in this corporation with their tactics and Government should not let them to do this ..


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gby said:


> The point is Uber hired to many drivers and could not satisfied every body with the earning ..usually they use some drivers only few hours day then rest of the time they put them on hold for not getting trips only if demanded increase very high then for low demand they use some drivers as priority only ...those make satisfactory earning.. but without those on hold Uber cannot supply the demand ether so it is big mess in this corporation with their tactics and Government should not let them to do this ..


Well I just learned Uber and Lyft we're given a reprieve until mid October while there appeals are being heard.
It would seem to me the appeals judge does not think this is such a slam dunk.
It seems the threat to leave worked and the courts are starting to give in.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Well I just learned Uber and Lyft we're given a reprieve until mid October while there appeals are being heard.
> It would seem to me the appeals judge does not think this is such a slam dunk.
> It seems the threat to leave worked and the courts are starting to give in.


The Court are giving more time to correct their self because are too many people under theirs administration .no corporation should become so big because they become to greedy and start to slavery the workers only for their interest .most of car service and taxi base where they been introduced had been destroyed by Uber those workers start driving Uber then Uber drop them in the hole


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gby said:


> The Court are giving more time to correct their self because are too many people under theirs administration .no corporation should become so big because they become to greedy and start to slavery the workers only for their interest .most of car service and taxi base where they been introduced had been destroyed by Uber those workers start driving Uber then Uber drop them in the hole





AvisDeene said:


> Well then, they should have worked harder to keep the status quo, or should have cared enough about the drivers who struggled and stood with them to improve everyone's conditions. It's obvious you don't care for them, since all you care about is how it is working out for you, so don't be upset when they don't care about you.
> 
> This describes you perfectly. You got complacent, and now are disgruntled that you will have to change and combat competition.
> 
> The biggest losers are all of the cab drivers who lost their main source of income due to rideshare companies and the drivers who signed up for them. What goes around comes around.


Business is a cut throat dog eat dog world.
I never once referred a driver to Uber even when they were paying 500 dollars.
I knew the more drivers the less profit for me. Uber knew that as well.
I do not know any other Uber drivers after 5 years of driving. This is not like the show Taxi where they all got together for beer's after work.
I never did anything to hurt a driver but never went out of my way to join up with them in a show of solidarity.


----------



## SB DRIVER (Aug 31, 2016)

The Gift of Fish said:


> The people who think that Uber should be placated at any cost remind me of women who are afraid to leave abusive partners.
> 
> - "I can't leave him - I'd have nowhere to go!"
> - "I can't leave him - he pays for my food, and _does _let me go out on my own sometimes"
> ...


I am a California driver and I make great money .Who put a gun to anyones head and made them drive for either company in a bad market ? They play the victim .Well go get a different job , deliver pizza .I do not feel like U/L have taken advantage of me in anyway and if I had I would have left shortly after having learned so .


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

SB DRIVER said:


> I am a California driver and I make great money .


Good for you!


> Who put a gun to anyones head and made them drive for either company in a bad market ?


Guns to heads? Sounds like you're being over dramatic.


> They play the victim .


I see no victims.


> Well go get a different job , deliver pizza .


You go and get a different job and go and deliver pizza. Don't tell people other what to do; mind your own business!


> I do not feel like U/L have taken advantage of me in anyway and if I had I would have left shortly after having learned so .


Again, good for you.

Was there any point to your post?


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SB DRIVER said:


> I am a California driver and I make great money .Who put a gun to anyones head and made them drive for either company in a bad market ? They play the victim .Well go get a different job , deliver pizza .I do not feel like U/L have taken advantage of me in anyway and if I had I would have left shortly after having learned so .


So nice to hear from a CA. driver that feels the way you do. Unfortunately everyone trys to lump you altogether as victoms of the evil tyrant Uber. Be safe and good luck !


----------



## Cbx9mm (Sep 15, 2018)

Observing options:
1. make income- your only income or added to make ends meet
2. no income-not enough income-loose roof over head, go hungry
Should UBER pay driver more yes! Become an employee and loose all independence and deductions. As a company Uber/lyft have no choice but to push back, stop services in CA. You have a company which you are now told how to operate by gov. I get it to a degree. I've driven for 3 years, things were way better at the start, but then there were less driver, I made more money, faster, easier and I could choose. Aside from Covid those 4 are gone. Do the math. People will pay more rather than a Taxi (they just suck in so many ways). Problem is the company needs to give drivers a better split, reduce amount of drivers (get rid of ALL the ones that should not drive). Ask yourself would you be happier then. As an independent you have a choice as an employee you do not. An employee always will cost company more and they will recoup that money one way or another. Fact of life and business and those who can't grasp the concept should or do live in CA


----------



## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> So nice to hear from a CA. driver that feels the way you do. Unfortunately everyone trys to lump you altogether as victoms of the evil tyrant Uber. Be safe and good luck !


Talking about people putting guns to people's heads and using words like "victim", "evil tyrant" etc are nothing more than straw man exaggerated melodramatics. Not too impressive, to be honest.



Cbx9mm said:


> Observing options:
> 1. make income- your only income or added to make ends meet
> 2. no income-not enough income-loose roof over head, go hungry
> Should UBER pay driver more yes! Become an employee and loose all independence and deductions. As a company Uber/lyft have no choice but to push back, stop services in CA. You have a company which you are now told how to operate by gov. I get it to a degree. I've driven for 3 years, things were way better at the start, but then there were less driver, I made more money, faster, easier and I could choose. Aside from Covid those 4 are gone. Do the math. People will pay more rather than a Taxi (they just suck in so many ways). Problem is the company needs to give drivers a better split, reduce amount of drivers (get rid of ALL the ones that should not drive). Ask yourself would you be happier then. As an independent you have a choice as an employee you do not. An employee always will cost company more and they will recoup that money one way or another. Fact of life and business and those who can't grasp the concept should or do live in CA


It's not clear what you are trying to say. Maybe you could repost this in your native language and we can run it through Google Translate?


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Cbx9mm said:


> Observing options:
> 1. make income- your only income or added to make ends meet
> 2. no income-not enough income-loose roof over head, go hungry
> Should UBER pay driver more yes! Become an employee and loose all independence and deductions. As a company Uber/lyft have no choice but to push back, stop services in CA. You have a company which you are now told how to operate by gov. I get it to a degree. I've driven for 3 years, things were way better at the start, but then there were less driver, I made more money, faster, easier and I could choose. Aside from Covid those 4 are gone. Do the math. People will pay more rather than a Taxi (they just suck in so many ways). Problem is the company needs to give drivers a better split, reduce amount of drivers (get rid of ALL the ones that should not drive). Ask yourself would you be happier then. As an independent you have a choice as an employee you do not. An employee always will cost company more and they will recoup that money one way or another. Fact of life and business and those who can't grasp the concept should or do live in CA


Could not agree more


----------



## Ubend R.S. (Jul 7, 2015)

arcterus said:


> See here's the problem with your post. You spout the same Uber-provided BS about cab drivers that they did back when they blatantly broke the law all across the country entering new markets. Your prejudice destroys your message.
> 
> Before Uber existed, there were good and decent cab drivers and cab companies that took care of their customers and ALSO made a middle class living.
> 
> ...


Word!


----------



## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> 
> I hope you have tons of money to provide UI for all those out of work drivers.


Of course they do. It's called CALPers the rich people are going to pay for it. Anybody in the Golden State can see that. Oh wait.....:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8631063/Hollywood-Apocalypse-rich-famous-fleeing-droves.html


----------



## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

SB DRIVER said:


> I am a California driver and I make great money .Who put a gun to anyones head and made them drive for either company in a bad market ? They play the victim .Well go get a different job , deliver pizza .I do not feel like U/L have taken advantage of me in anyway and if I had I would have left shortly after having learned so .


Well as you have seen by now we have several resident victims here at UP who's goal is to get paid minimum wage. They can't hack it out there so they want everyone else to be brought down to their pathetic level of making minimum wage. But the simple *fact* remains that driving for Uber or Lyft is an absolute zero skills kind of job and if you can't hack even that then there truly is nothing you can do in life.

So really, stop enabling your abusive husband Uber and cower in fear over how Lyft puts a gun to your head and forces you to drive. Remember, according to @AB5 you are a surf and you are a victim. Start acting like one!


----------



## BunnyK (Dec 12, 2017)

waldowainthrop said:


> I can't wait.


I cant wait for the minorities now to stop crying. You probably think you will be able to control whites once that happens. Let me guess? Youre another commie waiting in the wing to steal from their betters using Marxism to rationalize it?


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Cynergie said:


> Of course they do. It's called CALPers the rich people are going to pay for it. Anybody in the Golden State can see that. Oh wait.....:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8631063/Hollywood-Apocalypse-rich-famous-fleeing-droves.html


3000 miles away NY City is going thru the same thing. Liberal Governor Cuomo Liberal Mayer Deblosio have turned the city into a war zone. Shootings and murders are up over 50% and people who can afford to are moving out. Trump would love to bring in the national guard but Deblosio and Cuomo won't let him. They say they can handle it. Yea that is working out well



Fusion_LUser said:


> Well as you have seen by now we have several resident victims here at UP who's goal is to get paid minimum wage. They can't hack it out there so they want everyone else to be brought down to their pathetic level of making minimum wage. But the simple *fact* remains that driving for Uber or Lyft is an absolute zero skills kind of job and if you can't hack even that then there truly is nothing you can do in life.
> 
> So really, stop enabling your abusive husband Uber and cower in fear over how Lyft puts a gun to your head and forces you to drive. Remember, according to @AB5 you are a surf and you are a victim. Start acting like one!


I know if this AB5 was happening in CT. I would be so upset. Glad to hear from what looks like majority of drivers who don't want anything to do with it


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> 3000 miles away NY City is going thru the same thing. Liberal Governor Cuomo Liberal Mayer Deblosio have turned the city into a war zone. Shootings and murders are up over 50% and people who can afford to are moving out. Trump would love to bring in the national guard but Deblosio and Cuomo won't let him. They say they can handle it. Yea that is working out well
> 
> 
> I know if this AB5 was happening in CT. I would be so upset. Glad to hear from what looks like majority of drivers who don't want anything to do with it


Why AB5 in CT Uber driver in CT it doesn't have any State requirements like NYC drivers .in NYC city it requer commercial insurance. TLC TAXI LIMO license inspection vehicle every 4 months drug test etc many other s..t in NYC needs strong regulation against this company who explore workers at their convenience . But those leaders are all greased &#128512;&#128512;&#128512;


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Woohaa said:


> You confuse "treatment" with poverty level wages. The issue has never been about treatment. It was about misclassification and paying poverty level wages because of that misclassification.
> 
> Learn how to stand up for yourself in the future


If you have suffered a pay cut, you have a major issue about treatment.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Diamondraider said:


> If you have suffered a pay cut, you have a major issue about treatment.


Uber takes to much interest from total fare that's the problem not pay cut .some time they take 20% then after 70% and never let the drivers to earn the right fare .I been follow them step by step then when are not enough for them also are stealing drivers on mileage ..


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gby said:


> Why AB5 in CT Uber driver in CT it doesn't have any State requirements like NYC drivers .in NYC city it requer commercial insurance. TLC TAXI LIMO license inspection vehicle every 4 months drug test etc many other s..t in NYC needs strong regulation against this company who explore workers at their convenience . But those leaders are all greased &#128512;&#128512;&#128512;


It really sounds like NY City needs to get rid of the govt. and politicions who are taking them to death. Defunding there police and creating a war zone for the public to navigate through. Don't forget as late as March Deblosio was saying under no conditions would he close the schools. Luckily Cuomo made him.



Jimmy44 said:


> It really sounds like NY City needs to get rid of the govt. and politicions who are taking them to death. Defunding there police and creating a war zone for the public to navigate through. Don't forget as late as March Deblosio was saying under no conditions would he close the schools. Luckily Cuomo made him.


Taxing them to death


----------



## Diamondraider (Mar 13, 2017)

Gby said:


> Uber takes to much interest from total fare that's the problem not pay cut .some time they take 20% then after 70% and never let the drivers to earn the right fare .I been follow them step by step then when are not enough for them also are stealing drivers on mileage ..


Uber has CUT PAY every year since 2017. Boston started at over $2.10mile and is now $0.66/mile.

From 2.10 to .66 is a HUGE F***ing problem.



Diamondraider said:


> Uber has CUT PAY every year since 2017. Boston started at over $2.10mile and is now $0.66/mile.
> 
> From 2.10 to .66 is a HUGE F***ing problem.


Both the quoted rates are AFTER Uber's vig.



Diamondraider said:


> Uber has CUT PAY every year since 2017. Boston started at over $2.10mile and is now $0.66/mile.
> 
> From 2.10 to .66 is a HUGE F***ing problem.
> 
> ...


Add the decoupling of driver/pax rates and switch to flat surge and you can see treatment of drivers is a massive issue.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

Diamondraider said:


> Uber has CUT PAY every year since 2017. Boston started at over $2.10mile and is now $0.66/mile.
> 
> From 2.10 to .66 is a HUGE F***ing problem.
> 
> ...


&#128512;&#128512;&#128512;In NY WESTCHESTER UBER PAY 0.18 cents mile. In those areas living the richest people of New York and they harbors in top of poor drivers to move for one place to another .. complain are everywhere in the Nation how Uber exploring drivers at their expenses and rise billions


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Diamondraider said:


> Uber has CUT PAY every year since 2017. Boston started at over $2.10mile and is now $0.66/mile.
> 
> From 2.10 to .66 is a HUGE F***ing problem.
> 
> ...


It sucks totally I agree those were the good ole days of Uber. All you can do is accept it or stop using the app. That sounds cold but it's a ok hard fact.


Diamondraider said:


> Uber has CUT PAY every year since 2017. Boston started at over $2.10mile and is now $0.66/mile.
> 
> From 2.10 to .66 is a HUGE F***ing problem.
> 
> ...





Jimmy44 said:


> It sucks totally I agree those were the good ole days of Uber. All you can do is accept it or stop using the app. That sounds cold but it's a ok hard fact.


Cold hard fact



Gby said:


> &#128512;&#128512;&#128512;In NY WESTCHESTER UBER PAY 0.18 cents mile. In those areas living the richest people of New York and they harbors in top of poor drivers to move for one place to another .. complain are everywhere in the Nation how Uber exploring drivers at their expenses and rise billions


Ok at 18 cents a mile you are working for charity. When you turn on your app you are agreeing to lose money. Does it suck? Yes ! Is Uber terrible to there drivers ? Yes ! Can you do anything to change that ? Nothing but stop driving



Diamondraider said:


> Uber has CUT PAY every year since 2017. Boston started at over $2.10mile and is now $0.66/mile.
> 
> From 2.10 to .66 is a HUGE F***ing problem.
> 
> ...


I agree totally but still accept those conditions whenever I turn on my app. I have two choices turn on the app or leaving it on.



Jimmy44 said:


> It sucks totally I agree those were the good ole days of Uber. All you can do is accept it or stop using the app. That sounds cold but it's a ok hard fact.
> 
> 
> Cold hard fact
> ...


Leave the app off


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Diamondraider said:


> Uber has CUT PAY every year since 2017. Boston started at over $2.10mile and is now $0.66/mile.
> 
> From 2.10 to .66 is a HUGE F***ing problem.
> 
> ...


I agree all of those issues are what I have been complaining about the last 2 years. But I keep driving because I can still make money


Diamondraider said:


> Uber has CUT PAY every year since 2017. Boston started at over $2.10mile and is now $0.66/mile.
> 
> From 2.10 to .66 is a HUGE F***ing problem.
> 
> ...





Jimmy44 said:


> I agree all of those issues are what I have been complaining about the last 2 years. But I keep driving because I can still make money


Agreed these are issues that are really terrible.



Kilroy4303 said:


> Well technically, I guess Uber and Lyft learning from their mistakes and all the drivers in CA can go to hell. . &#8230; technically speaking from a metaphorical point of view
> 
> and seriously if you don't agree or like it or aren't earning enough . .. . .. . go somewhere else its that simple and you can do that . . .
> 
> ...


That's true you may be suited for a non gig job.


----------



## Steve appleby (May 30, 2015)

California has a nasty habit of alienating people with their stupid regulations and taxes. Oh you watch, if U/L leave California and those other startups come in the to fill the void, the California government will start to alienate them too and they’ll pack it up and leave. Why do you think joe rogan is moving out of Cali????


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Steve appleby said:


> California has a nasty habit of alienating people with their stupid regulations and taxes. Oh you watch, if U/L leave California and those other startups come in the to fill the void, the California government will start to alienate them too and they'll pack it up and leave. Why do you think joe rogan is moving out of Cali????


I totally understand. Dara mentioned how impossible it would be to switch an entire business model to accommodate CA. laws and regulations.


----------



## June132017 (Jun 13, 2017)

What was California's blood alcohol level?


----------



## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Well as you have seen by now we have several resident victims here at UP who's goal is to get paid minimum wage. They can't hack it out there so they want everyone else to be brought down to their pathetic level of making minimum wage. But the simple *fact* remains that driving for Uber or Lyft is an absolute zero skills kind of job and if you can't hack even that then there truly is nothing you can do in life.
> 
> So really, stop enabling your abusive husband Uber and cower in fear over how Lyft puts a gun to your head and forces you to drive. Remember, according to @AB5 you are a surf and you are a victim. Start acting like one!


^^
*THIS.*

BTW: even the SF Muni drivers get it. Because they're using _the exact same skill set having to deal with lying, unruly and ungrateful pax_. :laugh:

All while getting SUPERIOR employee benefits AND banking a consistently HIGHER paycheck to the tune of an average $71k+ per year....

http://www.comparably.com/salaries/salaries-for-muni-bus-driver-in-san-francisco-ca


June132017 said:


> What was California's blood alcohol level?


1000% times less whatever the state's legal drug disbursement of Mary Jane/Hash/vape/crack/meth/<insert designer drug here> happens to be in metropolitan cities. Where cities like SF happily facilitate the drug culture by giving away free junkie needles etc to the city's growing junkie/homeless addict welfare class

So in other words--what I'm trying to say is--not a lot? Because apparently BAC = noise in the state's legal definition of what a BAC spectrum is for law enforcement purposes :roflmao:

Also seems the non Mary Jane drugs are fast becoming 100% legit in the Golden State. Particularly since state politicians/legislators went psycho with their campaign of #DefundDaPolice..... :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Cynergie said:


> ^^
> *THIS.*
> 
> BTW: even the SF Muni drivers get it. Because they're using _the exact same skill set having to deal with lying, unruly and ungrateful pax_. :laugh:
> ...


This time away from driving gives us all the chance to reflect and reavaluate where we want to be driver wise.
If some of us prefer to go the traditional taxi or bus driver or some other form of transportation this would be a good time to do it.
What we should not do is demand that Uber change there entire business model to meet our desires.


----------



## Cynergie (Apr 10, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> 3000 miles away NY City is going thru the same thing. Liberal Governor Cuomo Liberal Mayer Deblosio have turned the city into a war zone. Shootings and murders are up over 50% and people who can afford to are moving out. Trump would love to bring in the national guard but Deblosio and Cuomo won't let him. They say they can handle it. Yea that is working out well


...and with Seattle already economically imploded, Chicago aka CHI-stan is well on its way as well.....

http://wgntv.com/news/macys-to-leav...notified,likely leaving the downtown location.

The Mayor's disingenuous mental gymnastics trying to whitewash the real driver behind this gigantic tax revenue loss is truly fascinating to behold


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Cynergie said:


> ...and with Seattle already economically imploded, Chicago aka CHI-stan is well on its way as well.....
> 
> http://wgntv.com/news/macys-to-leav...notified,likely leaving the downtown location.
> 
> The Mayor's disingenuous mental gymnastics trying to whitewash the real driver behind this gigantic tax revenue loss is truly fascinating to behold


These cities are becoming war zones and these mayor's are defunding the police.
Crime is up in every major city because of cut backs and laws established to restrict actions a cop can do when confronted.



Gby said:


> Uber takes to much interest from total fare that's the problem not pay cut .some time they take 20% then after 70% and never let the drivers to earn the right fare .I been follow them step by step then when are not enough for them also are stealing drivers on mileage ..


All these things are true and honestly the only option is to quit and do something else


----------



## UberBud (Aug 8, 2016)

All the paranoid, fact free, self serving, political agenda filled whining clarifies why Uber and Lyft so easily exploit and abuse its idiot drivers.


----------



## Uber's Guber (Oct 22, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.


Maybe all these "thousands of poor unskilled workers" in California can use this newfound opportunity during unemployment to spend time learning to speak English.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

UberBud said:


> All the paranoid, fact free, self serving, political agenda filled whining clarifies why Uber and Lyft so easily exploit and abuse its idiot drivers.


You make great points just try to ease up on the name calling.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

UberBud said:


> All the paranoid, fact free, self serving, political agenda filled whining clarifies why Uber and Lyft so easily exploit and abuse its idiot drivers.


Because US regulators are all greased and weak up to late We talk about millions workers in this country not little gypsy cars base We talking about US transportation... From ride share they took over all US transportation ..why the money should go to Soft Bank of Japan ..I'm wandering why do they take so late action against this company ..


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gby said:


> Because US regulators are all greased and weak up to late We talk about millions workers in this country not little gypsy cars base We talking about US transportation... From ride share they took over all US transportation ..why the money should go to Soft Bank of Japan ..I'm wandering why do they take so late action against this company ..


Your replies are very hard to understand. Try to express one idea with several words then end with a period. This is called a sentence and it makes it easier to understand your writings. Give it a try it will help you get your points across better.


----------



## EdOz (Sep 6, 2018)

The problem with AB5 is that it’s heart was in the right place, but the execution was horrible. Lyft and Uber have dug their own grave with shielding themselves from criticism over their practices by using ICs.

You would be able to address deactivations because these companies would no longer be able to use the “confidentiality” lie to hide the reasons for firing you.

the companies would be prohibited from their current structure of charging whatever they want, then in turn paying you whatever they want. If they charge a surge, you’d always get the same portion.

they’d pay into unemployment system and other benefits. Don’t think for one second that the states won’t start going after gig companies for compensation for paying drivers unemployment, AB5-like rule on the books or not.

the gig industry-worker relationship isn’t a good one, and is only going to get worse. They cannot push the overhead on to drivers while at the same time completely controlling how much we’re paid, it’s just that simple.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

EdOz said:


> The problem with AB5 is that it's heart was in the right place, but the execution was horrible. Lyft and Uber have dug their own grave with shielding themselves from criticism over their practices by using ICs.
> 
> You would be able to address deactivations because these companies would no longer be able to use the "confidentiality" lie to hide the reasons for firing you.
> 
> ...


You make a lot of good points.
We discuss a lot of things that we would like tweeked while keeping the IC platform.
I think the State of California went way overboard in demanding that Uber change there entire business model.
I have paid Uber 35 thousand dollars a year the last four years. Going after Uber for UI money is fair to me.
Small realistic steps like that are reasonable and should be looked into.


----------



## EdOz (Sep 6, 2018)

Appreciate that. The problem is that IC regs were written at a different time and for a different labor market.

But the IRS and other govt agencies have shown a willingness over the years to put their foot down forcefully on companies that skirt the law.

happened a few years ago to a news outlet I wrote for - they were using it to avoid paying journalists benefits...

how Uber did not see this coming is beyond me.



Jimmy44 said:


> You make a lot of good points.
> We discuss a lot of things that we would like tweeked while keeping the IC platform.
> I think the State of California went way overboard in demanding that Uber change there entire business model.
> I have paid Uber 35 thousand dollars a year the last four years. Going after Uber for UI money is fair to me.
> Small realistic steps like that are reasonable and should be looked into.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok got it thanks for the explanation.
> My first job was at McDonalds. I had to work my way up to working on the grill. Shakes, Fries and fish came before I ever touched a spatula.
> 1.60 an hour and worked my way to 2.20 when I left.
> My manager used to say " if you have time to lean you have time to clean ".
> Believe me in those days working for McDonalds was as far from IC as you could be.


1.60 an hour ??? &#128562;

How old are you?

I started working at 15 (first job with a check) and I got paid 3.10 an hour.

@ariel5466 was saying I was old.

Ok, @SHalester I had to come back and edit this comment I hit my @$#/^#[email protected]@!!!! Post limit.

"(First job with a check)"

My first "job" was collecting newspaper AFTER it was read.

I made about 40 bux a month, cash about 3-400 bux in todays money.

I was around 6 years old.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

observer said:


> I started working at 15 (first job with a check) and I got paid 3.10 an hour.


ha, got that beat. First job in elementary school: paper route. Paid per paper, assuming customers paid, which I also had to collect from them. Up at 4am, school by 8:20am. Sucked when it rained. :cryin:


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

EdOz said:


> Appreciate that. The problem is that IC regs were written at a different time and for a different labor market.
> 
> But the IRS and other govt agencies have shown a willingness over the years to put their foot down forcefully on companies that skirt the law.
> 
> ...


I have been saying all along Uber tests the limits of laws to benefit there business.
That being said I feel every business does the exact same thing.
The IRS is not letting Uber get away with anything illegal. 
They don't have anything on them.


----------



## ThrowInTheTowel (Apr 10, 2018)

Jimmy44 said:


> This time away from driving gives us all the chance to reflect and reavaluate where we want to be driver wise.
> If some of us prefer to go the traditional taxi or bus driver or some other form of transportation this would be a good time to do it.
> What we should not do is demand that Uber change there entire business model to meet our desires.


What business model? I thought they were just a Tech Company connecting drivers with passengers. Just like that is a bold face lie so is everything about their entire business model. Their business model is to hire driver employees, control them, control their pay, and control their fate all while pretending to be partners of independent contractors. Anybody who defends these illegal acts of skirting the law out of fear they may have to go work a real job one day should take a look in the mirror. Anybody depending on the existence of Uber for permanent income should have their head examined.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

EdOz said:


> Appreciate that. The problem is that IC regs were written at a different time and for a different labor market.


Then as now companies used IC status to evade taxes and/or other costs such as unemployment insurance and workers comp.

I highly doubt that treating ICs like employees is a recent phenomenon. Companies have always done it.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> What business model? I thought they were just a Tech Company connecting drivers with passengers. Just like that is a bold face lie so is everything about their entire business model. Their business model is to hire driver employees, control them, control their pay, and control their fate all while pretending to be partners of independent contractors. Anybody who defends these illegal acts of skirting the law out of fear they may have to go work a real job one day should take a look in the mirror. Anybody depending on the existence of Uber for permanent income should have their head examined.


Everyone is entitled to there opinion. 
I get upset with things Uber does.
I just don't have this hatred that you and others have toward uber.


----------



## EdOz (Sep 6, 2018)

Nats121 said:


> Then as now companies used IC status to evade taxes and/or other costs such as unemployment insurance and workers comp.
> 
> I highly doubt that treating ICs like employees is a recent phenomenon. Companies have always done it.


Oh it's not, but the laws weren't written for companies that are nearly entirely 1099/contract work. Until recently, companies were staffed by actual employees with very few freelancers/stringers/whatever ya wanna call them. The gig economy companies have literally used every possible loophole, and in the case of TNC laws, chose to flagrantly break them.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

EdOz said:


> Oh it's not, but the laws weren't written for companies that are nearly entirely 1099/contract work. Until recently, companies were staffed by actual employees with very few freelancers/stringers/whatever ya wanna call them. The gig economy companies have literally used every possible loophole, and in the case of TNC laws, chose to flagrantly break them.


In recent years there's also been companies that have "converted" their employees to ICs. There was a lawsuit maybe 10 years ago against a software company that converted their employees to ICs. The workers complained that they were still being treated like employees.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

EdOz said:


> Oh it's not, but the laws weren't written for companies that are nearly entirely 1099/contract work. Until recently, companies were staffed by actual employees with very few freelancers/stringers/whatever ya wanna call them. The gig economy companies have literally used every possible loophole, and in the case of TNC laws, chose to flagrantly break them.


The loopholes I agree.
Breaking laws ?
Do you think for one second the haters out there would let them get away with it


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Well I can make the exact argument for what a true employee is.
> An Uber driver does not meet that definition either. When was the last job you had that allowed you to show up and leave whenever you want.


 Going on or off line is the only advantage of this job. No possibility of advancing, lowest possible Social Security check at retirement age,no retirement fund, no sick days,no vacation days and no health care. Sacrifice your entire life because you don't want to buy a clock. Really?


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> Going on or off line is the only advantage of this job. No possibility of advancing, lowest possible Social Security check at retirement age,no retirement fund, no sick days,no vacation days and no health care. Sacrifice your entire life because you don't want to buy a clock. Really?


I do it because it works for me. If it doesn't work for you just quit. For every Uber driver there is a different reason he drives. I just don't get the total hatred for Uber


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> Sacrifice your entire life because you don't want to buy a clock.


but, it works great as an extra income vehicle or for those who don't depend on the income from RS. As a career, as a full time job, not so much.


----------



## 195045 (Feb 2, 2020)

ThrowInTheTowel said:


> What business model? I thought they were just a Tech Company connecting drivers with passengers. Just like that is a bold face lie so is everything about their entire business model. Their business model is to hire driver employees, control them, control their pay, and control their fate all while pretending to be partners of independent contractors. Anybody who defends these illegal acts of skirting the law out of fear they may have to go work a real job one day should take a look in the mirror. Anybody depending on the existence of Uber for permanent income should have their head examined.


You are completely wrong .in some city like NYC drivers are not affording to work part time because expenses and city requermemts are very high .. drivers are full time Uber employee according how Uber treat them and pay them ...


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> but, it works great as an extra income vehicle or for those who don't depend on the income from RS. As a career, as a full time job, not so much.


Different things to different people


----------



## bsliv (Mar 1, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> In recent years there's also been companies that have "converted" their employees to ICs. There was a lawsuit maybe 10 years ago against a software company that converted their employees to ICs. The workers complained that they were still being treated like employees.


I've been an IC for nearly 30 years. The IRS has always been ready to jump on tax cheats based on IC/employee status. The IRS has created criteria for determining IC/employee status. These criteria work at the federal level. 49 states accept these criteria. Are Californians "special?" Do they need a short bus?

Scenario #1. A long time ago I was an employee. I was told how much per hour I'd make. I was told when to show up for work. I was told to wear appropriate clothing including a tie. I was told when and how long my lunch break would be. I was told when I could go home. I was given a company vehicle during work time. I was offered a 401k plan. I had federal income tax and FICA withheld from each check.

Scenario #2. As an IC, I can lose money on an assignment. I work when I feel I need to work. I accept work from who I wish. I may or not take a lunch break. I use my own equipment (car, computer, cell phone, cell service, etc.). I dress as I deem appropriate. I must make my own retirement account. I have nothing withheld from any check I receive from a client. At the end of the year, if I don't make minimum wage I have no one but myself to blame.

Does working from a rideshare company under current laws sound like scenario #1 or #2?


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> I do it because it works for me. If it doesn't work for you just quit. For every Uber driver there is a different reason he drives. I just don't get the total hatred for Uber


I not one with total hatred for Uber. I'm one of your old retired folks that enjoys the flexibility and ability to pick up extra cash. Not to mention working 15 to 20 hours a week keeps my life coordinated.
I'm one of those folks saying if you want a good life with a secure future you should look elsewhere for a career. Use Uber,don't let Uber use you.



SHalester said:


> but, it works great as an extra income vehicle or for those who don't depend on the income from RS. As a career, as a full time job, not so much.


 I totally agree. I'm just saying the younger people have a doubtful future. Apparently a lot of people don't understand how Social Security works. The less you pay in, the less you take out. People on here brag about not paying taxes due to the deduction. Not paying SS taxes will get you on SSI and Medicaid instead of SS and Medicare. That is just one example of what I'm talking about.


----------



## Buckiemohawk (Jun 23, 2015)

If Uber/Lyft had a reasonable prices and didnt steal and had actual customer service, this wouldnt be happening. If they vetted drivers and didnt let customers screw over their drivers, this never would have happened


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

bsliv said:


> I've been an IC for nearly 30 years. The IRS has always been ready to jump on tax cheats based on IC/employee status. The IRS has created criteria for determining IC/employee status. These criteria work at the federal level. 49 states accept these criteria. Are Californians "special?" Do they need a short bus?
> 
> Scenario #1. A long time ago I was an employee. I was told how much per hour I'd make. I was told when to show up for work. I was told to wear appropriate clothing including a tie. I was told when and how long my lunch break would be. I was told when I could go home. I was given a company vehicle during work time. I was offered a 401k plan. I had federal income tax and FICA withheld from each check.
> 
> ...


#2 in Connecticut where I drive and I'm glad



Buckiemohawk said:


> If Uber/Lyft had a reasonable prices and didnt steal and had actual customer service, this wouldnt be happening. If they vetted drivers and didnt let customers screw over their drivers, this never would have happened


Well in Connecticut we are still IC's and despite my desire to get better split % and old surge pricing I am happy as a clam



Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> I not one with total hatred for Uber. I'm one of your old retired folks that enjoys the flexibility and ability to pick up extra cash. Not to mention working 15 to 20 hours a week keeps my life coordinated.
> I'm one of those folks saying if you want a good life with a secure future you should look elsewhere for a career. Use Uber,don't let Uber use you.
> 
> 
> I totally agree. I'm just saying the younger people have a doubtful future. Apparently a lot of people don't understand how Social Security works. The less you pay in, the less you take out. People on here brag about not paying taxes due to the deduction. Not paying SS taxes will get you on SSI and Medicaid instead of SS and Medicare. That is just one example of what I'm talking about.


The example of the retired person working 15 to 20 hours a week is the classic example of why we drive. He and I and others do not need unsatisfied drivers and clueless politicians taking that away from us


----------



## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> #2 in Connecticut where I drive and I'm glad
> 
> 
> Well in Connecticut we are still IC's and despite my desire to get better split % and old surge pricing I am happy as a clam
> ...


 I would probably go with this idea of part time being under 30 hours a week and full time over 30 a week. And I mean across all platforms. True part time people probably have life's basics taken care of. Full timers probably not.


----------



## kenyarc (Aug 18, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> California legislation might be misguided, but if drivers get paid more _and_ Uber/Lyft fail, long-term that's a win-win. Even if costs go up for customers, that's probably what it costs to drive people around for money and ensure fair pay. Look at what gas costs in California. Look at what the GDP is. People in the state probably should be paying drivers more, even if Uber can't manage to do it with their business model.
> 
> The way that California is getting there is going to be messy and cause a lot of suffering. _That_ is the lamentable thing.
> 
> ...


The passengers i talk to already pay alot for uber. What we drivers make from each ride is not what they pay. Passengers already complain about the surge prices and high prices. Problem is that uber takes half or more of what we make.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

kenyarc said:


> The passengers i talk to already pay alot for uber. What we drivers make from each ride is not what they pay. Passengers already complain about the surge prices and high prices. Problem is that uber takes half or more of what we make.


Of course passengers are going to complain about prices. Just tell them to try and get a taxi and that will shut them up. You as a driver want surges don't apologise to your riders for surge pricing that's how you make money. You can't want more money and at the same time want to lower the price Uber charges.


----------



## waldowainthrop (Oct 25, 2019)

kenyarc said:


> Problem is that uber takes half or more of what we make.


Well, they are losing a ton of money on every ride (if they continue as they have), so their business model is based on taking even more of the total fare value from drivers.

From the drivers perspective, it's already too much, but from Uber's perspective, it may never be enough. Would an extreme 50/50 split on all fares make Uber profitable in their current model? It might not.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

waldowainthrop said:


> Well, they are losing a ton of money on every ride (if they continue as they have), so their business model is based on taking even more of the total fare value from drivers.
> 
> From the drivers perspective, it's already too much, but from Uber's perspective, it may never be enough. Would an extreme 50/50 split on all fares make Uber profitable in their current model? It might not.


I may be wrong but I think Uber the company and there activist investors have learned something I hope so.
Weather they change gears and start rewarding drivers with bigger splits etc. is anyones guess


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

SHalester said:


> ha, got that beat. First job in elementary school: paper route. Paid per paper, assuming customers paid, which I also had to collect from them. Up at 4am, school by 8:20am. Sucked when it rained. :cryin:


"(first job with a check)"

My first job was collecting newspapers AFTER they were read and selling them to a recycler.

I was 6-7 years old. I made 40 bux a month, cash. About the same as 3-400 bux in todays money.


Jimmy44 said:


> I may be wrong but I think Uber the company and there activist investors have learned something I hope so.
> Weather they change gears and start rewarding drivers with bigger splits etc. is anyones guess


I've got a pretty good guess that they won't.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> "(first job with a check)"
> 
> My first job was collecting newspapers AFTER they were read and selling them to a recycler.
> 
> ...


I agree but at least they are finding out that no driver feels any loyalty to them. That has to sting a bit.


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

bsliv said:


> I've been an IC for nearly 30 years. The IRS has always been ready to jump on tax cheats based on IC/employee status. The IRS has created criteria for determining IC/employee status. These criteria work at the federal level. 49 states accept these criteria. Are Californians "special?" Do they need a short bus?
> 
> Scenario #1. A long time ago I was an employee. I was told how much per hour I'd make. I was told when to show up for work. I was told to wear appropriate clothing including a tie. I was told when and how long my lunch break would be. I was told when I could go home. I was given a company vehicle during work time. I was offered a 401k plan. I had federal income tax and FICA withheld from each check.
> 
> ...


There's elements of both scenarios with Uber.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> There's elements of both scenarios with Uber.


I really think we have discussed this to death. Make a decision already and let's get on with working or leaving.


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> I really think we have discussed this to death. Make a decision already and let's get on with working or leaving.


Take your own "advice". If you don't want to discuss it, don't. If you don't want to read the discussion, don't.


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## Avii27 (Nov 15, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


Uber is not going to stop their service in CA. You must be super dumb


Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


Uber is not going to stop their service in CA. You must be a super dumb, if you think so. Its a scare tactic. At the meantime Uber will find a way to bribe the city.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> Take your own "advice". If you don't want to discuss it, don't. If you don't want to read the discussion, don't.


It is my thread



Avii27 said:


> Uber is not going to stop their service in CA. You must be super dumb
> 
> Uber is not going to stop their service in CA. You must be a super dumb, if you think so. Its a scare tactic. At the meantime Uber will find a way to bribe the city.


Very mature reply 
No consequences for offering bribes to city officials 
Yep you nailed it that's there next move


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Jimmy44 said:


> It is my thread


So what? The thread was started by you, not owned by you.

Anyway, my post was on-topic.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Nats121 said:


> So what? The thread was started by you, not owned by you.
> 
> Anyway, my post was on-topic.


I agree with you about the thread but I do feel as the poster I do have the right to make comments that back up the reason I posted it.
I wasn't really talking directly at you as I was to the members in general. 
I want CA to make a decision. Uber was pretty clear that they were cya if AB5 is implemented.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Avii27 said:


> Uber is not going to stop their service in CA


wanna bet? Before the stay was issued that was just what was going to happen for a certain period of time. and that can STILL happen if the judge is not happy with the written plans he required by 8/25. If that stay is lifted, both U/L will shutdown since neither is ready with any drivers who are 'employees'. 
Maybe if you said Uber is not going to stop forever in their biggest market....that would be accurate. Maybe.


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## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> Appreciate the reply you bring up a lot of good points.
> I see things from an outsider and to be honest I hope I am wrong and it does work out for the drivers.
> As someone who has been in the trenches for 4 years I just don't see how it can work as proposed.


Remember Pool was invented to make us more $ and then express pool. Remember the 180 days of change ? What changed ? We got 6 DF rides lasted what a week ?? Every thing Drivers gained has been hard fought by years of expensive litigation. So now they need us they are going to save us with a ballot proposition ?How can anyone no possibly be so Naaive? Ab does not require we give up flexibility the scumbags at Uber et all do. Uber says they want to give us more but Ab5 prevents them. So how come none of the post Ab5 changes are being implemented in any other states ? Stop and smell the rotten lies the companies Are cooking vote no on 22 !


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

TheTruth...... said:


> Wrong, many do it full time so you are dead wrong. They pay sub par wages for too long.


Whether you drive part time or full time the concept is still the same: it's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to FIGURE OUT how to MAKE GOOD MONEY doing this job.

You think because you choose to work full time hours that means Uber owes you something? No sir. The job is not designed to be like that. You don't like it? You want to get a job that pays benefits? THEN GO GET A JOB LIKE THAT!!!

This job is not that,



Jimmy44 said:


> Liked the part about quitting if your not pleased.
> I dislike Uber but do not feel like they have to meet my desires as a driver nor do they have any legal obligation to do so.
> If I was not making money and enjoying driving I would quit.


All the people who support AB5 are NOT making money and most of them do NOT enjoy driving. They really should just quit.


----------



## not on your nelly (Aug 25, 2020)

With all the garbage going around at the moment, one thing we all still have is freedom of choice.
It's time some of us exercised this choice and stopped moaning about things we can do nothing to change.
By the way there are places in the "free world" where curfews are in place and "papers" need to be carried, somewhat like Europe in the 1940's...I feel as though I am living through some kind of nightmare.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

not on your nelly said:


> With all the garbage going around at the moment, one thing we all still have is freedom of choice.
> It's time some of us exercised this choice and stopped moaning about things we can do nothing to change.
> By the way there are places in the "free world" where curfews are in place and "papers" need to be carried, somewhat like Europe in the 1940's...I feel as though I am living through some kind of nightmare.


Good description nightmare !


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## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> Whether you drive part time or full time the concept is still the same: it's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to FIGURE OUT how to MAKE GOOD MONEY doing this job.
> 
> You think because you choose to work full time hours that means Uber owes you something? No sir. The job is not designed to be like that. You don't like it? You want to get a job that pays benefits? THEN GO GET A JOB LIKE THAT!!!
> 
> ...


Again Dara is lying through his teeth why would anyone believe anything from Uber is to our benefit ? Are We not the necessary inconvenience until self driving cars ? Why does a 70 Billion dollar company have to keep taking more and more from us ? What happened to the 80-20 or 75-25 split ? Did they give you a choice when they continue to cut your pay ? If Prop 22 passes do you really think Uber will honor any of the promise's? Name 1 they kept ? None of these new changes are permanent . 22 passes and it all goes away. All Ab5 says is you get expense reimbursement and some benefits. Collective bargaining is the big piece they don't want.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Escoman said:


> Again Dara is lying through his teeth why would anyone believe anything from Uber is to our benefit ? Are We not the necessary inconvenience until self driving cars ? Why does a 70 Billion dollar company have to keep taking more and more from us ? What happened to the 80-20 or 75-25 split ? Did they give you a choice when they continue to cut your pay ? If Prop 22 passes do you really think Uber will honor any of the promise's? Name 1 they kept ? None of these new changes are permanent . 22 passes and it all goes away. All Ab5 says is you get expense reimbursement and some benefits. Collective bargaining is the big piece they don't want.


120 days of change diamond drivers were supposed to get 70/30 split. The surges we're supposed to return to old school not this ridiculous one they offer today. 
The govt. saved our bacon while Uber looked away. They gave us 10 cheap masks and a lamenated safety sign to hang in our cars.


----------



## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

I'm for free market. Don't like the rates don't drive. That was easy.

I had cable TV for years, year after year the rates went up. I finally cancelled it. Free market, I did not like the rates so I cancelled.

U/L offer rates, if I don't like the rate I will stop driving. I don't drive in certain markets for this reason, the rates are too low.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

FLKeys said:


> I'm for free market. Don't like the rates don't drive. That was easy.
> 
> I had cable TV for years, year after year the rates went up. I finally cancelled it. Free market, I did not like the rates so I cancelled.


Totally agree this AB5 is ridiculous.
If your willing to put in the time and effort it's possible to bring home a decent amount at a business you enjoy.


----------



## Kilroy4303 (Jul 31, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Everyone is entitled to there opinion.
> I get upset with things Uber does.
> I just don't have this hatred that you and others have toward uber.


I think I agree with this also. Don't get me wrong, I have my own, opinions ( some I will say . .. .have been changed by discussion on this board. I think Uber has practices that need to be re defined and adjusted according to Law. However I also think there is some "taking my ball and going home" syndrome on both sides of this argument.

They say the best compromise is when both parties are not happy with the resolution but think they got/get something out of the deal.
( or something like that )


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Kilroy4303 said:


> I think I agree with this also. Don't get me wrong, I have my own, opinions ( some I will say . .. .have been changed by discussion on this board. I think Uber has practices that need to be re defined and adjusted according to Law. However I also think there is some "taking my ball and going home" syndrome on both sides of this argument.
> 
> They say the best compromise is when both parties are not happy with the resolution but think they got/get something out of the deal.
> ( or something like that )


Totally agree no one is ever 100% satisfied with a job. It's human nature and just good business to constantly tweek things from both drivers and Uber's sides.


----------



## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> Totally agree this AB5 is ridiculous.
> If your willing to put in the time and effort it's possible to bring home a decent amount at a business you enjoy.


Why do you think Ab5 changes that because Uber says so ? All Ab5 does is force uber et all to give you minimum benefits and reimburse car expenses at the legal rate set by IRS. It doesn't say anything about shifts or hours Uber made all that up to scare you into voting for their big lie.


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> Totally agree this AB5 is ridiculous.
> If your willing to put in the time and effort it's possible to bring home a decent amount at a business you enjoy.


How do you feel about Prop 22?


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Escoman said:


> Why do you think Ab5 changes that because Uber says so ? All Ab5 does is force uber et all to give you minimum benefits and reimburse car expenses at the legal rate set by IRS. It doesn't say anything about shifts or hours Uber made all that up to scare you into voting for their big lie.


All us full timers rely on IRS and IC rules as huge part of our business plan. How is that going to change our filing status



observer said:


> How do you feel about Prop 22?


Just when you think you have seen the dumbest ?


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Escoman said:


> Why do you think Ab5 changes that because Uber says so ? All Ab5 does is force uber et all to give you minimum benefits and reimburse car expenses at the legal rate set by IRS. It doesn't say anything about shifts or hours Uber made all that up to scare you into voting for their big lie.


I have a standing request for any driver to post a contract or paycheck from Uber. Now I am adding a check showing reimbursement for mileage and expenses. So far nothing but the sound of crickets


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> All us full timers rely on IRS and IC rules as huge part of our business plan. How is that going to change our filing status
> 
> 
> Just when you think you have seen the dumbest ?


So you are for or against Prop 22?


----------



## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

observer said:


> So you are for or against Prop 22?


Against if Uber is pushing this hard and the companies are spending over $100,000,000 to get it passed it has to be really incredibly bad for us.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Escoman said:


> Against if Uber is pushing this hard and the companies are spending over $100,000,000 to get it passed it has to be really incredibly bad for us.


I googled prop 22 and it said it referred to is a marriage only between a man and woman. it did not mention anything about uber


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> I googled prop 22 and it said it referred to is a marriage only between a man and woman. it did not mention anything about uber


Did you google prop 22 and Uber?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> Did you google prop 22 and Uber?


No just prop 22 I apologize for my reaction to the member who asked if I was for it.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Escoman said:


> It doesn't say anything about shifts or hours Uber made all that up to scare you into voting for their big lie.


r u kidding? Once you are 'an' employee it is all about shifts and schedules AND where you work. Have you ever been an employee? You would know this if you were. 
Pings go away and become: dispatch orders
Cancels will go away and become: why didn't you complete the order
Surges, multipliers will go away and become: your hourly rate
And if you don't get flying colors at reviews you are F I R E D

About only good thing among all the bad is you will get paid from the moment you go on shift, to the end of the shift.

It's called being an employee. AB5 protects you from none of what being an employee means. Up to and including you won't be hired to begin with. Karma.....it can hurt.


----------



## Jst1dreamr (Apr 25, 2019)

Escoman said:


> It doesn't say anything about shifts or hours Uber made all that up to scare you into voting for their big lie.


This is one of the only thing I have read here that is actually true. It also says nothing about only being given 15 or 20 hours a week so they don't have to give you benefits. You can expect this to happen for sure.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Escoman said:


> Why do you think Ab5 changes that because Uber says so ? All Ab5 does is force uber et all to give you minimum benefits and reimburse car expenses at the legal rate set by IRS. It doesn't say anything about shifts or hours Uber made all that up to scare you into voting for their big lie.


Can you name one company that lets its minimum wage workers work when they want, where they want and how they want to work? What about a company that lets their employee's choose what customers they will help and not help?


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Can you name one company that lets its minimum wage workers work when they want, where they want and how they want to work? What about a company that lets their employee's choose what customers they will help and not help?


Have been saying that forever


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## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

SHalester said:


> r u kidding? Once you are 'an' employee it is all about shifts and schedules AND where you work. Have you ever been an employee? You would know this if you were.
> Pings go away and become: dispatch orders
> Cancels will go away and become: why didn't you complete the order
> Surges, multipliers will go away and become: your hourly rate
> ...


You must be part of the Uber Army paid to spread disinformation and lies .Grub Hub has an hourly guarantee if you want to schedule or you can just log in or out at will. Uber is going to screw you anyway. Like paying .30 Mile when every law says you have to pay the IRS rate of .58 mile. So they will write off .58 and pay .30. 4 years of working has taught me 1000 times over if Uber says it's good for you it's really good for them bad for you.


----------



## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Escoman said:


> You must be part of the Uber Army paid to spread disinformation and lies


oh, do please point out what disinformation and which lies I've told. I'll ask you again: Have you ever been an employee? Simple question, please this time don't avoid it.

And where is my check.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Escoman said:


> You must be part of the Uber Army paid to spread disinformation and lies .Grub Hub has an hourly guarantee if you want to schedule or you can just log in or out at will. Uber is going to screw you anyway. Like paying .30 Mile when every law says you have to pay the IRS rate of .58 mile. So they will write off .58 and pay .30. 4 years of working has taught me 1000 times over if Uber says it's good for you it's really good for them bad for you.


Do you lose the IRS deduction ?


----------



## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


Operating cost for a vehicle is $29,000 a year. Each driver should be making at least $59,000 a year gross is they want to keep this setup as independent contractors. Unfortunately, they keep on trying to take too much of the pie.

Blame Uber and Lyft.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Operating cost for a vehicle is $29,000 a year. Each driver should be making at least $59,000 a year gross is they want to keep this setup as independent contractors. Unfortunately, they keep on trying to take too much of the pie.
> 
> Blame Uber and Lyft.


My Prius just turned 300 thousand and it's a 2017.
The depreciation on the car will not be a factor until I sell the car or trade it in.


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## nosurgenodrive (May 13, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> My Prius just turned 300 thousand and it's a 2017.
> The depreciation on the car will not be a factor until I sell the car or trade it in.


Operating costs are not just the depreciation of the vehicle.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

nosurgenodrive said:


> Operating costs are not just the depreciation of the vehicle.


You don't get to 300 grand on the odometer without taking extreme care of your vehicle.
12 oil changes a year. Two sets of tires. Transmission , breaks, tune-up, wiper blades, insurance, taxes and car payments you get to be an expert out of default.
The 56 cents deduction is not a gift it is the cost of vehicle maintenance. Without that deduction we would be losing money.
So I am assuming if we we're employees we would lose all those deductions.
That would screw up my business model and I would quit Uber for sure


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> You don't get to 300 grand on the odometer without taking extreme care of your vehicle.
> 12 oil changes a year. Two sets of tires. Transmission , breaks, tune-up, wiper blades, insurance, taxes and car payments you get to be an expert out of default.
> The 56 cents deduction is not a gift it is the cost of vehicle maintenance. Without that deduction we would be losing money.
> So I am assuming if we we're employees we would lose all those deductions.
> That would screw up my business model and I would quit Uber for sure


No, you wouldn't necessarily lose those deductions. In California, all costs must be paid by the employer. Your state may be different but like you said, drivers would quit in droves.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> No, you wouldn't necessarily lose those deductions. In California, all costs must be paid by the employer. Your state may be different but like you said, drivers would quit in droves.


I actually had to go with Ubers miles because my actual miles we're to much. I want to keep showing business growth to avoid red flags and or audits.


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

Escoman said:


> Like paying .30 Mile when every law says you have to pay the IRS rate of .58 mile.


Can you please show me this law?

If Uber pays 30¢ per mile they can not write off any mileage at all, the mileage they pay drivers at 30¢ per mile becomes an expense not a mileage deduction.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

FLKeys said:


> Can you please show me this law?
> 
> If Uber pays 30¢ per mile they can not write off any mileage at all, the mileage they pay drivers at 30¢ per mile becomes an expense not a mileage deduction.


The confusion it caused is this even worth it


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## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

SHalester said:


> oh, do please point out what disinformation and which lies I've told. I'll ask you again: Have you ever been an employee? Simple question, please this time don't avoid it.
> 
> And where is my check.


I am employee and I work a flex schedule. I am given the freedom to work when I want and earn what I want. I also work remotely . I can work 10 hours or 60 my choice and I am w -2. Do you really think Uber can set schedules for hundreds of thousands nation wide ? The app will be tweaked to allow you to log on if there is demand and you are needed. It stops the abuse of oversaturation. I presume everyone has at some point and seen a huge over proliferation if ants waiting for a ride ? It is great for Uber to have 5 times the number needed and only pay them when they are making them money


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Escoman said:


> I am employee and I work a flex schedule. I am given the freedom to work when I want and earn what I want. I also work remotely . I can work 10 hours or 60 my choice and I am w -2. Do you really think Uber can set schedules for hundreds of thousands nation wide ? The app will be tweaked to allow you to log on if there is demand and you are needed. It stops the abuse of oversaturation. I presume everyone has at some point and seen a huge over proliferation if ants waiting for a ride ? It is great for Uber to have 5 times the number needed and only pay them when they are making them money


So politicions like Leona Gonzalez who thought they were protecting drivers actually cost them there way to make income.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Escoman said:


> Do you really think Uber can set schedules for hundreds of thousands nation wide ?


Your W2 job all you said required you ask permission and it would not happen unless it was approved. THAT is being an employee. Plus, what you have is a unicorn and not the rule. Nice try, tho.

Nation wide? Sorry, let's keep this to Calif. And, as Uber stated already, there would be far far fewer drivers as employees. Even with that said, their HR dept would need to bulk up for sure. 
And who goes online when, they already have the computing power to do just that; no problemo. Few million more lines of code, easy peasy.

Just know if you are FOR AB5 U/L et al will need to shut down operations while they update their systems and 'hire' drivers. Yikes?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> Your W2 job all you said required you ask permission and it would not happen unless it was approved. THAT is being an employee. Plus, what you have is a unicorn and not the rule. Nice try, tho.
> 
> Nation wide? Sorry, let's keep this to Calif. And, as Uber stated already, there would be far far fewer drivers as employees. Even with that said, their HR dept would need to bulk up for sure.
> And who goes online when, they already have the computing power to do just that; no problemo. Few million more lines of code, easy peasy.
> ...


Like a lot of us said when this assemblywoman first came up with this brilliant idea. 
She had know idea about ride-sharing and to implement AB5 would be logisticly impossible.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

@SHalester or @Jimmy44 any updates from the court extension that was due 08/25/20? I can't find anything about that... has Uber and or Lyft filed their plans with the court?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Fusion_LUser said:


> @SHalester or @Jimmy44 any updates from the court extension that was due 08/25/20?


nope, not as far I have seen. Somebody posted here the date was next week; I didn't bother correcting them. think won't be an update until the judge chimes in if what as submitted keeps the stay in place.


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## whatyoutalkinboutwillis (Jul 29, 2017)

SHalester said:


> yes, says somebody outside of calif? Hum. The fact is, U/L won't hire all active drivers. Many don't seem to grasp that. Many seem to feel the pay will increase and there will be benefits and nothing else will change. Those folks need a whup upside their noggins.
> 
> Unless a supreme court gets involved, like now, most likely U/L will cease operations for some period of time to 'prepare'. U/L right this second have but a single path, to make 'some' employees. There is no 3rd option.
> 
> And those few who wanted this, they will be in for a big surprise. There is a reason you need to be careful what you wish for.......


Exactly. You have a company that can afford to hire people who do nothing but figure out ways for the company to make money. WE know how to get more money to the drivers, but that's not part of their business model. So the drivers who can't make $15 an hour in the current system probably won't be hired by Uber when they transition over to employees. And those who do make the cut may not like the hours that they will be assigned. They SURELY won't like having to pick up all the people Uber/Lyft will insist that they pick up. Maybe you'll get 5 trips for that one hour of work and only be paid $15.

There are endless posts from drivers who are particular about who and where they pick up. Now they won't have that choice. If Uber/Lyft decides there should be modifications to your car (how about a huge decal that says UBER! or an ad mounted on the top with bolts?) they will be able to because they are your employer. OR they may go the taxi route and buy a fleet of Uber cars fully tricked out. Cars with microphones to hear and see what is happening in your car at all times. "At 4:32 p.m. we observed you on your cell phone for 5 minutes". Giving Uber/Lyft more control was a bad idea.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

whatyoutalkinboutwillis said:


> Cars with microphones to hear and see what is happening in your car at all times. "At 4:32 p.m. we observed you on your cell phone for 5 minutes". Giving Uber/Lyft more control was a bad idea.


Uber and Lyft can do that now... heck all apps on your smartphone are doing far more in the background than you think.

You ants better hum your "I hate Lyft" song so Lyft doesn't deactivate you when they hear you singing the song out loud!


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

whatyoutalkinboutwillis said:


> Exactly. You have a company that can afford to hire people who do nothing but figure out ways for the company to make money. WE know how to get more money to the drivers, but that's not part of their business model. So the drivers who can't make $15 an hour in the current system probably won't be hired by Uber when they transition over to employees. And those who do make the cut may not like the hours that they will be assigned. They SURELY won't like having to pick up all the people Uber/Lyft will insist that they pick up. Maybe you'll get 5 trips for that one hour of work and only be paid $15.
> 
> There are endless posts from drivers who are particular about who and where they pick up. Now they won't have that choice. If Uber/Lyft decides there should be modifications to your car (how about a huge decal that says UBER! or an ad mounted on the top with bolts?) they will be able to because they are your employer. OR they may go the taxi route and buy a fleet of Uber cars fully tricked out. Cars with microphones to hear and see what is happening in your car at all times. "At 4:32 p.m. we observed you on your cell phone for 5 minutes".  Giving Uber/Lyft more control was a bad idea.


I am a full time diamond driver making good money. 
If they offered me a JOB I would say no thank you.
Been there done that thank you.
The drivers who Leana Gonzales thought she was protecting will lose there jobs.


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## HonoluluHoku (Jul 2, 2019)

I haven’t checked the forum for a few months, since I haven’t been driving. Good to see the sky is still falling on some of you!

And yet, you’re still here. 🤔


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

HonoluluHoku said:


> I haven't checked the forum for a few months, since I haven't been driving. Good to see the sky is still falling on some of you!
> 
> And yet, you're still here. &#129300;


Welcome Back !!!


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## GigEcoCritic (Jul 26, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


And as a driver you are not being tpped


Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> Taxi drivers as people are as decent as anyone else. I don't think people have a question about that. I was in the bar and nightclub business for over 40 years "back in the day." The issue with a taxi was getting one. A person didn't care at the end of their day how long it took. They could have another drink while they waited. Tomorrow morning they needed to get back to their car. Maybe they could,maybe not. It made a lot of people drive with to much to drink. Maybe you need to get to work. Is your taxi going to be at your house at 9am or 11am???????????


And a driver you are not being ripped off as a passengers when there is a surge.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

GigEcoCritic said:


> And as a driver you are not being tpped
> 
> And a driver you are not being ripped off as a passengers when there is a surge.


Not quite sure what your saying


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## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> My Prius just turned 300 thousand and it's a 2017.
> The depreciation on the car will not be a factor until I sell the car or trade it in.


Not everyone drives a Prius and pax hate them


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## 58756 (May 30, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> First of all, Uber's not gonna walk away from their largest market.
> 
> But let's suppose for the sake of this discussion Uber and Lyft do leave. New rideshare companies would take their place, and in order to make an employee-driver business model succeed, the new companies would have to stick to the basics of transporting people and things and not get involved with worldwide expansion, flying cars, and all of the other adventures Uber engages in.


Dell manager told me Lyft spends $300M a year on data storage and analytics. So that is where most of our earnings went


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Escoman said:


> Not everyone drives a Prius and pax hate them


All my passengers loved it and I am pretty sure it's the # 1 Uber hybrid vehicle


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Ozzyoz said:


> Dell manager told me Lyft spends $300M a year on data storage and analytics. So that is where most of our earnings went


Not quite. Uber grossed $65 billion in 2019, so $300 million per year ain't gonna break the bank.

To put it into perspective, Uber's spending more than $50 million in their Prop 22 campaign.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Escoman said:


> Again Dara is lying through his teeth why would anyone believe anything from Uber is to our benefit ? Are We not the necessary inconvenience until self driving cars ? Why does a 70 Billion dollar company have to keep taking more and more from us ? What happened to the 80-20 or 75-25 split ? Did they give you a choice when they continue to cut your pay ? If Prop 22 passes do you really think Uber will honor any of the promise's? Name 1 they kept ? None of these new changes are permanent . 22 passes and it all goes away. All Ab5 says is you get expense reimbursement and some benefits. Collective bargaining is the big piece they don't want.


If you think using self driving cars to build a fleet of taxis in a huge transportation network like Uber is even a remote possibility in our lifetimes then you're not thinking any of this through.

say what you want about human drivers, but with the system set up as is, uber gets the following:
ZERO costs for maintenance
ZERO costs for garaging
ZERO costs for the purchase of the vehicle
ZERO liability apart from the insurance policy paid for by the $3 per ride fee that pax pay
ZERO responsibility for anything the driver does (if the driver is a problem, they just get deactivated)

Here's what uber will have to PAY if a safe self-driving car is ever invented that can be used in mass quantities for the purpose of a taxi business:
Purchase the vehicle
Garaging the vehicle
Maintaining the vehicle (including the costly software involved)
Cleaning the vehicle from vandalism
liability for anything the vehicle does (accident, wrong turn, death, etc)
Gas up and /or pay for the electricity costs to fuel up the vehicle
Insurance
prob more I'm leaving out

Now think it over. Isn't it a lot cheaper just to have human drivers?



Escoman said:


> Again Dara is lying through his teeth why would anyone believe anything from Uber is to our benefit ? Are We not the necessary inconvenience until self driving cars ? Why does a 70 Billion dollar company have to keep taking more and more from us ? What happened to the 80-20 or 75-25 split ? Did they give you a choice when they continue to cut your pay ? If Prop 22 passes do you really think Uber will honor any of the promise's? Name 1 they kept ? None of these new changes are permanent . 22 passes and it all goes away. All Ab5 says is you get expense reimbursement and some benefits. Collective bargaining is the big piece they don't want.


Had to reply separately to address your other questions:

Why does a 70 Billion dollar company have to keep taking more and more from us ?
They don't, exactly. They let market conditions dictate all that. Do you live in a city where the people use uber a lot? is there more drivers than pax? do you know where to go where the pax are? those places change weekly, BTW. You have to constantly be on your toes. Uber is. They change their payout to reflect current market conditions for the city you live in so you need to change your strategy to reflect it as well.that's YOUR responsibility. Uber is taking care of THEM. So YOU need to take care of YOU.

What happened to the 80-20 or 75-25 split ?
Mostly this is still the case. They tweaked it a bit on their end to compensate for the quest and other bonuses they pay out to the drivers that comes out of their cut. on some rides uber LOSES money on their end. If you ever add up literally EVERY single ride you have for the week (I did, it takes a while) and compare the % it's usually about where it needs to be and often better. I'm on the 80-20 program and i usually get like an 83-17 split on average. On some rides, yes uber takes 50%. But on others they lose money. Like I said, when you add it up and average it out (adding in the bonuses), it turns out right.

Did they give you a choice when they continue to cut your pay ?
I've done uber 6 years and in that time they have changed driver pay about 8 times in my city of Los Angeles, split right down the middle: 4 times they decreased pay, 4 times they increased pay. No, they didn't give me a choice, but they use complex math equations based on a whole host of data that I do not have in order to figure out the best possible price to charge to get the most number of pax to want to use uber based on what they can afford to pay. There's no way I could figure any of that out so I'm happy that they do it for me. Example: let's say I had the ability to set my own price and I want to charge $2 per mile, 50 cents per minute, but.... there are about 100 people in my city that can afford rates like that. But... there are 1 million people in my city that use uber every week. SO MY "prices" basically just shut out 999,900 pax. Those are pax who would never use me because they just can't afford my prices. How am i supposed to know any of that? I don't have all that data. but uber does. I would much rather have rates that a majority of pax can afford so I can get more customers. That's why I'm happy to let uber set the prices. Do you understand that?

If Prop 22 passes do you really think Uber will honor any of the promise's?
They have to. Because Uber walks a fine line: they can't be TOTAL jerks or else drivers will quit in HUGE numbers and that would crush them. It's very very delicate, which for drivers means that breaking their promises will not be in their best interest.

Name 1 they kept ?
I think you are confusing how things "feel" for you with how things really are if you analyze the data carefully. In the 6 years I've driven for uber, the money has gone up and down, no doubt, but that was due to changes in the market. It's true Uber made changes to protect their end so I had to do the same on my end. I constantly changed my strategy and had to evolve with the times. You have to as well. Again, if you want a job where you get x amount of dollars every hour guaranteed go work at CostCo.

None of these new changes are permanent .
No change with uber is ever permanent. Let's say after Covid is over and we get back to "normal" uber ridership is back to where it was, but then a year later, for whatever reason ridership drops 10%. Maybe people couldn't afford to live in LA anymore so they moved to Phoenix or they moved back with their mom and they got their mom to drive them around, etc. With a 10% drop of COURSE uber will make new changes so of COURSE these new changes will not be permanent.

22 passes and it all goes away.
No sir. If 22 passes what that does is tell the government of the state of California that they do not have the right to enforce AB5 for rideshare jobs, which means we remain Independent contractors with all the pros & cons associated with that.

All Ab5 says is you get expense reimbursement and some benefits.
No sir, you are WRONG. AB5 means that Uber has to treat us as EMPLOYEES. As an EMPLOYEE we would get expense reimbursements and some benefits, but the big part that you left out is that the state of California will then get to collect MORE TAXES from us, which is why the government REALLY wants AB5.

Collective bargaining is the big piece they don't want
Collective bargaining is not really relevant to this job because the MONEY that is earned by doing this job is generated by many many many factors that collective bargaining cannot even begin to factor in: how many pax are there? how much will the pax ultimately have to pay for a ride, on average? how much do pax earn in this city? can pax afford to use uber frequently with those rates? do rates need to be tweaked a dollar here or there to gain more pax? If rides were $5 on average would more pax use uber than if rides were $10 on average? etc etc. How can any kind of collective bargaining even begin to figure any of that out? because guess what... they will have to. There's no other way to determine how much money we are even talking about in the first place.

end rant


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

iheartuber said:


> If you think using self driving cars to build a fleet of taxis in a huge transportation network like Uber is even a remote possibility in our lifetimes then you're not thinking any of this through.
> 
> say what you want about human drivers, but with the system set up as is, uber gets the following:
> ZERO costs for maintenance
> ...


You have to get a like just for the volume WOW !!


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## Tampa Bay Hauler (May 2, 2019)

iheartuber said:


> If you think using self driving cars to build a fleet of taxis in a huge transportation network like Uber is even a remote possibility in our lifetimes then you're not thinking any of this through.
> 
> say what you want about human drivers, but with the system set up as is, uber gets the following:
> ZERO costs for maintenance
> ...


You are correct. No Robocars for a long time.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Tampa Bay Hauler said:


> You are correct. No Robocars for a long time.


I'm pretty sure a trial Uber car killed a young girl. 
From what I understand they can get these cars 98% safe.
That extra 2% a computer is incapable of doing.
When it comes to life and death 2% may as well be 100%.
Never in our lifetime even if your 21.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> I'm pretty sure a trial Uber car killed a young girl.
> From what I understand they can get these cars 98% safe.
> That extra 2% a computer is incapable of doing.
> When it comes to life and death 2% may as well be 100%.
> Never in our lifetime even if your 21.


It's not even a matter of getting a car that works so that it's safe enough.

even IF they invent a car like that the costs alone are a killer.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

iheartuber said:


> It's not even a matter of getting a car that works so that it's safe enough.
> 
> even IF they invent a car like that the costs alone are a killer.


You make a great point .
Just wondering if that extra 70% they pocket on each ride would cover those costs ?
What do you think ?


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> You make a great point .
> Just wondering if that extra 70% they pocket on each ride would cover those costs ?
> What do you think ?


I used to regularly go over EVERY single ride I did for the week. It took hours and yes I'm crazy, but I learned something very valuable: Yes, it's true Uber took 50%+ on some rides (I never saw 70% but I assume you were exaggerating). BUT... on some rides Uber LOST money. So you really gotta take the AVERAGE. Which is what I did, and it took me HOURS to do so, week after week.

What i found was, when you add in the quest and other bonuses, it came to right around, and usually even BETTER than the 80-20 split it was supposed to be.

Don't get fooled by the rides that look funky. You gotta see the whole thing.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

iheartuber said:


> I used to regularly go over EVERY single ride I did for the week. It took hours and yes I'm crazy, but I learned something very valuable: Yes, it's true Uber took 50%+ on some rides (I never saw 70% but I assume you were exaggerating). BUT... on some rides Uber LOST money. So you really gotta take the AVERAGE. Which is what I did, and it took me HOURS to do so, week after week.
> 
> What i found was, when you add in the quest and other bonuses, it came to right around, and usually even BETTER than the 80-20 split it was supposed to be.
> 
> Don't get fooled by the rides that look funky. You gotta see the whole thing.


I agree totally finding that sometimes those so called lousy rides get you a nice five dollar cash tip.
My acceptance rate was like 99% as I found the algas rewarded you.
I never parked my car and waited as I found staying on the move got me away from the heard.
It also helped me rack up that 56 cents a mile deduction.
I actually had to use Ubers mileage to reduce my deductions and not contribute to my IRA.
I love talking shop with drivers who accept the app for what it is.

As a side note durring the 180 days of change. Uber said that diamond drivers would get 70/30 split. That was always my pet peef with them. That and going away from old style surge pricing.


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## moJohoJo (Feb 19, 2017)

NOXDriver said:


> THIS INFURIATES ME. You never should have gotten the $600 to begin with. You should have gotten UI and thats it. A global pandemic should not result in a PAY RAISE.
> 
> Uber will NEVER have full time driver employees. There is NO way it works. EVER.
> 
> ...


NICE TRY UBER CORPORATE ATTORNEY .


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

kdyrpr said:


> Exactly. They decided to cut rates severely which prompted drivers to protest which got politicians involved and like everything else politicians (especially Dems) touch it nearly always does nothing to solve the problem. It only creates unintended consequences which end up being worse than the original issue.


CA is a perfect example



sporadic said:


> All they had to do was to raise those darned rates and not slash them unilaterally...
> 
> Can't have one's cake and eat it too!


Even if Uber raised there rates the passengers would gladly pay.
Uber is still way cheaper and quicker and more pleasant then a taxi


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

iheartuber said:


> I used to regularly go over EVERY single ride I did for the week. It took hours and yes I'm crazy, but I learned something very valuable: Yes, it's true Uber took 50%+ on some rides (I never saw 70% but I assume you were exaggerating). BUT... on some rides Uber LOST money. So you really gotta take the AVERAGE. Which is what I did, and it took me HOURS to do so, week after week.
> 
> What i found was, when you add in the quest and other bonuses, it came to right around, and usually even BETTER than the 80-20 split it was supposed to be.
> 
> Don't get fooled by the rides that look funky. You gotta see the whole thing.


Lyft used to provide details like this and they were informative. It would be frustrating seeing some of the amounts per ride but then you had the over all details and on average was much better than you would think by going by some of the ride details.

Of course Lyft sucks and that feature is no longer available


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Lyft used to provide details like this and they were informative. It would be frustrating seeing some of the amounts per ride but then you had the over all details and on average was much better than you would think by going by some of the ride details.
> 
> Of course Lyft sucks and that feature is no longer available :frown:


My only figure I cared about was the daily total. Tried not to overthink things.
I never hung out at airports and turned down long trips that were over an hour.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> My only figure I cared about was the daily total. Tried not to overthink things.
> I never hung out at airports and turned down long trips that were over an hour.


I used to go by the hour but now its the daily total. The fare multiplier for me has been a game changer since I might just get 1 or 2 rides an hour but clear far more per hour overall vs. rides at the normal rate.


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## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

iheartuber said:


> If you think using self driving cars to build a fleet of taxis in a huge transportation network like Uber is even a remote possibility in our lifetimes then you're not thinking any of this through.
> 
> say what you want about human drivers, but with the system set up as is, uber gets the following:
> ZERO costs for maintenance
> ...


You are wrong on many levels. Uber no longer allows you to see the fare and you are paid a flat per mile per minute. I recently took a 2.6 Mile trip late at night. Uber kept sending notices very few drivers available quoting me $25 to $28 I rejected 8 offers before giving in. I paid $26 at end of trip I had the driver show me his app $3.55 was what he was paid .How does that factor into 80%? So 6 years how many contracts did you willingly agree to ? How many rate cuts did you approve ? Collective bargaining scares them to death because they no longer have the last word. Why do they need to offer rides they lose $on ? Free market no competition. If people can't afford it use public transit.We spent years in litigation to make it a better Gig. 22 gives all the gains back 22costs these companies nothing. $12 hr while on trip is a joke .30 Mile is an insult. Uber deserves to rot in Hell. Taxrs we pay will be offset by higher income and no expenses. My car has 16 inch tires a set of 4 with alignment ran $600 that's allot of trips . $45 to fill my tank for $400 miles. Incentives have to be paid to get people on the road. If rates were better more would drive those hours. Why do U/L need to have hq in SFO? Most expensive city in U.S ? They pay customer service and driver support people over $80,000 to start . How many drivers work 40 hours and make $1,600 week after expenses ?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Fusion_LUser said:


> I used to go by the hour but now its the daily total. The fare multiplier for me has been a game changer since I might just get 1 or 2 rides an hour but clear far more per hour overall vs. rides at the normal rate.


I have never done a fair multipleir. What is that.



Escoman said:


> You are wrong on many levels. Uber no longer allows you to see the fare and you are paid a flat per mile per minute. I recently took a 2.6 Mile trip late at night. Uber kept sending notices very few drivers available quoting me $25 to $28 I rejected 8 offers before giving in. I paid $26 at end of trip I had the driver show me his app $3.55 was what he was paid .How does that factor into 80%? So 6 years how many contracts did you willingly agree to ? How many rate cuts did you approve ? Collective bargaining scares them to death because they no longer have the last word. Why do they need to offer rides they lose $on ? Free market no competition. If people can't afford it use public transit.We spent years in litigation to make it a better Gig. 22 gives all the gains back 22costs these companies nothing. $12 hr while on trip is a joke .30 Mile is an insult. Uber deserves to rot in Hell. Taxrs we pay will be offset by higher income and no expenses. My car has 16 inch tires a set of 4 with alignment ran $600 that's allot of trips . $45 to fill my tank for $400 miles. Incentives have to be paid to get people on the road. If rates were better more would drive those hours. Why do U/L need to have hq in SFO? Most expensive city in U.S ? They pay customer service and driver support people over $80,000 to start . How many drivers work 40 hours and make $1,600 week after expenses ?


I can't believe how things have changed since I stopped driving in March. Is this only CA or is it everywhere.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> I have never done a fair multipleir. What is that.


In CA ants can set their rates from .05x (50% less than normal!) to 5.0x.



Jimmy44 said:


> I can't believe how things have changed since I stopped driving in March. Is this only CA or is it everywhere.


That's because its utter bullshit from a AB5 parrot.


----------



## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

Fusion_LUser said:


> In CA ants can set their rates from .05x (50% less than normal!) to 5.0x.
> 
> That's because its utter bullshit from a AB5 parrot.


22 has no wording saying fare multiplier or show ing destination will continue. They have not rolled them out in any other states. Soon as 22 passes they disappear. This is one of the hottest discussion topics and crickets from Uber on it .


----------



## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Escoman said:


> 22 has no wording saying fare multiplier or show ing destination will continue. They have not rolled them out in any other states. Soon as 22 passes they disappear. This is one of the hottest discussion topics and crickets from Uber on it .


Destination info and fare multiplier are CA specific items and will remain even after Prop 22. The only way Uber will be able to keep Sacramento in check is to appear they are for the driver.

As usual the AB5 parrot brigade makes false claims about Prop 22 because if Prop 22 fails to pass Uber will have to make the ants they decide to keep employee's. As an employee for Uber you will not need destination info because you will be required to pick up all pax and take them where they want. Uber will not need the fare multiplier because Uber will only pay you minimum wage.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Escoman said:


> 22 has no wording saying fare multiplier or show ing destination will continue. They have not rolled them out in any other states. Soon as 22 passes they disappear. This is one of the hottest discussion topics and crickets from Uber on it .


It is very confusing as I do not know what CA and Uber have settled in that's different from CT. where I drive.



Fusion_LUser said:


> Destination info and fare multiplier are CA specific items and will remain even after Prop 22. The only way Uber will be able to keep Sacramento in check is to appear they are for the driver.
> 
> As usual the AB5 parrot brigade makes false claims about Prop 22 because if Prop 22 fails to pass Uber will have to make the ants they decide to keep employee's. As an employee for Uber you will not need destination info because you will be required to pick up all pax and take them where they want. Uber will not need the fare multiplier because Uber will only pay you minimum wage.


I am trying to follow all of this and really do not know what has been addopted that makes CA different then CT.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> I am trying to follow all of this and really do not know what has been addopted that makes CA different then CT.


Well for starters do not read what the AB5 shills have to say about Prop 22. AB5 parrots have convinced themselves that being an employee of Uber/Lyft will be great. That they will continue to be able to work when they want, pick up who they want and that somehow minimum wage (before deductions) will be a lot of money!

So far only Uber has made changes to make it better for the ant in CA. Uber has given the ants full destination info and a fairly accurate estimate on what you will get for the ride. Uber no longer tracks the A/R and in theory you will not be punished over declining a bunch of rides... there is some argument over this with mixed results from ants. Uber also recently rolled out the fare multiplier like I mentioned to you earlier. Some say its useless, some are afraid if they use it they will miss out on rides. In my personal experience using it I've gone from a $30 and hour average to a $50 an hour average. I'm addicted and I fear I won't be able to go back to not using that feature!

Lyft has adopted a scorched earth policy on the ants and has done nothing in CA. They are riding on Uber's changes.


----------



## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Destination info and fare multiplier are CA specific items and will remain even after Prop 22. The only way Uber will be able to keep Sacramento in check is to appear they are for the driver.
> 
> As usual the AB5 parrot brigade makes false claims about Prop 22 because if Prop 22 fails to pass Uber will have to make the ants they decide to keep employee's. As an employee for Uber you will not need destination info because you will be required to pick up all pax and take them where they want. Uber will not need the fare multiplier because Uber will only pay you minimum wage.


Ah an Uber Schill hard at work . When 22 passes Uber can do whatever they want . sacramento will wash their hands and walk. Everything reverts and you get $12 an hour while engaged in a trip and.30 mile so Uber will lower driver pay to offset it. Assuming they even pay you. How is it to get a cancellation fee or a fare adjustment ? These companies spent $180,000,000 the largest amount in history on an initiative and you think it's to protect drivers ?



Fusion_LUser said:


> Destination info and fare multiplier are CA specific items and will remain even after Prop 22. The only way Uber will be able to keep Sacramento in check is to appear they are for the driver.
> 
> As usual the AB5 parrot brigade makes false claims about Prop 22 because if Prop 22 fails to pass Uber will have to make the ants they decide to keep employee's. As an employee for Uber you will not need destination info because you will be required to pick up all pax and take them where they want. Uber will not need the fare multiplier because Uber will only pay you minimum wage.


Jimmy Uber shows us the destination and earnings before we accept the ride. So we can choose which rides are profitable. We are allowed to set our own surge multiplier so you can charge from half fare to 3x on every trip. Pax get an offer saying this ride will cost $18 do you accept they say yes or no .


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Well for starters do not read what the AB5 shills have to say about Prop 22. AB5 parrots have convinced themselves that being an employee of Uber/Lyft will be great. That they will continue to be able to work when they want, pick up who they want and that somehow minimum wage (before deductions) will be a lot of money!
> 
> So far only Uber has made changes to make it better for the ant in CA. Uber has given the ants full destination info and a fairly accurate estimate on what you will get for the ride. Uber no longer tracks the A/R and in theory you will not be punished over declining a bunch of rides... there is some argument over this with mixed results from ants. Uber also recently rolled out the fare multiplier like I mentioned to you earlier. Some say its useless, some are afraid if they use it they will miss out on rides. In my personal experience using it I've gone from a $30 and hour average to a $50 an hour average. I'm addicted and I fear I won't be able to go back to not using that feature!
> 
> Lyft has adopted a scorched earth policy on the ants and has done nothing in CA. They are riding on Uber's changes.


Thanks for the explanation. I don't blame you for using the perks that have come about in the mist of what appears to be utter confusion.
50 an hour is old school money I love seeing that.
Uber on and keep killing it


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Escoman said:


> Ah an Uber Schill hard at work . When 22 passes Uber can do whatever they want . sacramento will wash their hands and walk. Everything reverts and you get $12 an hour while engaged in a trip and.30 mile so Uber will lower driver pay to offset it. Assuming they even pay you. How is it to get a cancellation fee or a fare adjustment ? These companies spent $180,000,000 the largest amount in history on an initiative and you think it's to protect drivers ?


Either you are totally clueless about Prop 22 or you are outright lying about it. Prop 22 provides a minimum amount of pay for the incompetent lucky-to-even-have-a-job crowd. There is no cap in what you can make under Prop 22.

Being an employee under AB5 caps you at minimum wage, you will not have the ability to earn more.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Escoman said:


> 22 has no wording saying fare multiplier or show ing destination will continue.


it also has no language they would go away. Hum.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> it also has no language they would go away. Hum.


Time will tell


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## bassplya (Nov 14, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


I fail to understand your thinking. "If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything". So maybe all the drivers who have been cheated for years should just keep on getting cheated in the interest of making sure the clueless drivers have work?? I guess you feel that 50% of something is Breyer than 100% of nothing. Maybe your thinking would change if you saw your wages drop 50%!


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Either you are totally clueless about Prop 22 or you are outright lying about it. Prop 22 provides a minimum amount of pay for the incompetent lucky-to-even-have-a-job crowd. There is no cap in what you can make under Prop 22.
> 
> Being an employee under AB5 caps you at minimum wage, you will not have the ability to earn more.


Can you show us where in AB5 it states that drivers cannot be paid more than minimum wage.

Also can you show us where in Prop 22 it states that drivers are guaranteed to always make 30-40-50-100 an hour, or for that matter, more than minimum wage.

Go ahead, we'll wait.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

observer said:


> Can you show us where in AB5 it states that drivers cannot be paid more than minimum wage.
> 
> Also can you show us where in Prop 22 it states that drivers are guaranteed to always make 30-40-50-100 an hour, or for that matter, more than minimum wage.
> 
> Go ahead, we'll wait.


This again? Twist all you want about what AB5 says or doesn't say. AB5 makes you an employee and as an employee you get minimum wage.

And I have *NEVER* said that under Prop 22 you are guaranteed anything other than a well known minimum amount to keep the scrubs happy.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

observer said:


> Can you show us where in AB5 it states that drivers cannot be paid more than minimum wage.


I was under the impression in AB5 minimum wage was the floor? Ditto the 1.2x minimum in Prop 22. AB5 we'd be employees subject to the state's minimum wage law, with some counties have a greater amount than the $12-$13 per hour.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> I was under the impression in AB5 minimum wage was the floor? Ditto the 1.2x minimum in Prop 22. AB5 we'd be employees subject to the state's minimum wage law, with some counties have a greater amount than the $12-$13 per hour.


This is a serious question. 
I can decline any ride without penalty.
What if I had my app on for 8 hours and declined every ride.
Would I make minimum wage for those 8 hours ?
Question two do I forfiet my 56 cents a mile deduction ?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Would I make minimum wage for those 8 hours ?


zero under Prop 22. Pay is trip to and with pax. Under AB5, there won't be 'pings'; they will be dispatch orders. You go, or you are fired; just like being an employee.

Q #2 is a good one. Do we in Calif get 27 cents per mile mileage deduct or the full 57 cents? No official answer yet. Just wild wild wild speculation.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> zero under Prop 22. Pay is trip to and with pax. Under AB5, there won't be 'pings'; they will be dispatch orders. You go, or you are fired; just like being an employee.
> 
> Q #2 is a good one. Do we in Calif get 27 cents per mile mileage deduct or the full 57 cents? No official answer yet. Just wild wild wild speculation.


Lorena Gonzalez really fixed everything NOT


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## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Either you are totally clueless about Prop 22 or you are outright lying about it. Prop 22 provides a minimum amount of pay for the incompetent lucky-to-even-have-a-job crowd. There is no cap in what you can make under Prop 22.
> 
> Being an employee under AB5 caps you at minimum wage, you will not have the ability to earn more.


Please show me where AB 5 says any of what you say 180,000,000 is not being spent to your benefit. I am sure they plan to recoup that. Isn't it Uber paying an army of trolls to pass in their lives and propoganda ? Why if 22 us so good do they need to spend a record amount ? By the way how's Dara he treating you special nice ?


----------



## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

iheartuber said:


> I used to regularly go over EVERY single ride I did for the week. It took hours and yes I'm crazy, but I learned something very valuable: Yes, it's true Uber took 50%+ on some rides (I never saw 70% but I assume you were exaggerating). BUT... on some rides Uber LOST money. So you really gotta take the AVERAGE. Which is what I did, and it took me HOURS to do so, week after week.
> 
> What i found was, when you add in the quest and other bonuses, it came to right around, and usually even BETTER than the 80-20 split it was supposed to be.
> 
> Don't get fooled by the rides that look funky. You gotta see the whole thing.


In most cases, when Uber "loses money" on a ride it means the ride was heavily discounted. The beneficiary is the pax, and usually Uber as well because the purpose of the discount is the same as supermarket weekly specials... to build the brand via "loss leaders".

Meanwhile, you the driver are still being paid the same shitty 1970s pay rates for those rides, so in most cases the driver's cut is higher but his earnings are unchanged.


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## SuperuberSFL (Oct 16, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost.
> There is no way Uber is going to hire drivers in CA.
> So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.
> The airports will be a disaster and we will go back to cab drivers ripping the public off.
> ...


not really - driving people around almost for free is a loss, period.
Uber & Lyft have trashed their business down to nothing. 
drivers out of desperation continue driving even though making half of minimum gage or even operating at a loss !!!! ( when you consider all expenses )
Things have to change - in reality only the riders benefit by riding in private cars for next to nothing.
It is a race to the bottom along the way destroying livery and other legitimate car services at the same time.
So be it - screw them sll , who cannot afford the fair price for a ride - belongs on a city bus.
This exploitation cannot continue, let it shut down and maybe restructure and come back with some fair deal for all involved.
Keeping the status quo for the sake of keeping a few unskilled people "in business" is garbage


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Escoman said:


> Please show me where AB 5 says any of what you say 180,000,000 is not being spent to your benefit. I am sure they plan to recoup that. Isn't it Uber paying an army of trolls to pass in their lives and propoganda ? Why if 22 us so good do they need to spend a record amount ? By the way how's Dara he treating you special nice ?


That's just stupid. And not just your incoherent rambling. Prop 22 is not a fix it all it's just the lesser of 2 evil plans. AB5 is supported by those who can't manage to make money in a zero skills job so they believe Daddy Government will save them. If Prop 22 fails it will be people like you here in January whining about (1) how Uber and/or Lyft has not hired you to be an employee and now you have no job or (2) that you have to work a schedule that you can't work (3) how you can't work both Uber and Lyft at the same time (4) how you hate having to pick up the worst of the worst pax in the worst areas and most importantly how (5) your minimum wage pay has a bunch of deductions now and you are not even *taking home* minimum wage.

At least with Prop 22 scrubs who can't manage to make any money get some kind of base pay, you will still be able to drive when you want and where you want and you won't be limited to minimum wage.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Fusion_LUser said:


> That's just stupid. And not just your incoherent rambling. Prop 22 is not a fix it all it's just the lesser of 2 evil plans. AB5 is supported by those who can't manage to make money in a zero skills job so they believe Daddy Government will save them. If Prop 22 fails it will be people like you here in January whining about (1) how Uber and/or Lyft has not hired you to be an employee and now you have no job or (2) that you have to work a schedule that you can't work (3) how you can't work both Uber and Lyft at the same time (4) how you hate having to pick up the worst of the worst pax in the worst areas and most importantly how (5) your minimum wage pay has a bunch of deductions now and you are not even getting minimum wage.
> 
> At least with Prop 22 scrubs who can't manage to make any money get some kind of base pay, you will still be able to drive when you want and where you want and you won't be limited to minimum wage.


Agree totally


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Fusion_LUser said:


> This again? Twist all you want about what AB5 says or doesn't say. AB5 makes you an employee and as an employee you get minimum wage.
> 
> And I have *NEVER* said that under Prop 22 you are guaranteed anything other than a well known minimum amount to keep the scrubs happy.


I'm not twisting anything.



Fusion_LUser said:


> AB5 makes you an employee and as an employee you get minimum wage.


Your words. ^^^^

There are plenty of employees that make more than minimum wage. AB5 DOES NOT FORCE Uber to pay minimum wage.

Uber can always pay MORE.

Just like with Prop 22, Uber WILL FORCE DOWN PAY to the lowest possible it can.



SHalester said:


> I was under the impression in AB5 minimum wage was the floor? Ditto the 1.2x minimum in Prop 22. AB5 we'd be employees subject to the state's minimum wage law, with some counties have a greater amount than the $12-$13 per hour.


Exactly.

The FLOOR, Uber CAN ALWAYS pay more than minimum wage. AB5 in no way limits how high Uber can pay, just how low it can pay.


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## Gus Nada (Aug 28, 2018)

Good Job Guys


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

observer said:


> There are plenty of employees that make more than minimum wage. AB5 DOES NOT FORCE Uber to pay minimum wage.
> 
> Uber can always pay MORE.


Oh so are ants going to be paid like doctors? Doctors are employees. No ants will be paid like auto workers, after all you are in a car and a employee. How much do employee's in other no skill jobs like Wal*Mart or McDonald's make? You can cut it anyway you want its all the same. AB5 makes you an employee and both Uber and Lyft have said as an employee you will be paid a minimum wage. Is it a bluff? Sure why not if that makes you happy. It's all a bluff.

Uber and Lyft will pay more than minimum wage and just like Wal*Mart and McDonald's, you also get to tell Uber and Lyft when you will work and who you will work with. Wal*Mart is famous for that, along with letting you work at Target during the same time you work at Wal*Mart.

Now all we have to do to enjoy being an employee of Uber and Lyft is move to Fantasyland.


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Oh so are ants going to be paid like doctors? Doctors are employees. No ants will be paid like auto workers, after all you are in a car and a employee. How much do employee's in other no skill jobs like Wal*Mart or McDonald's make? You can cut it anyway you want its all the same. AB5 makes you an employee and both Uber and Lyft have said as an employee you will be paid a minimum wage. Is it a bluff? Sure why not if that makes you happy. It's all a bluff.
> 
> Uber and Lyft will pay more than minimum wage and just like Wal*Mart and McDonald's, you also get to tell Uber and Lyft when you will work and who you will work with. Wal*Mart is famous for that, along with letting you work at Target during the same time you work at Wal*Mart.
> 
> Now all we have to do to enjoy being an employee of Uber and Lyft is move to Fantasyland.


As a diamond driver I would expect to make more then a partner


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Oh so are ants going to be paid like doctors? Doctors are employees. No ants will be paid like auto workers, after all you are in a car and a employee. How much do employee's in other no skill jobs like Wal*Mart or McDonald's make? You can cut it anyway you want its all the same. AB5 makes you an employee and both Uber and Lyft have said as an employee you will be paid a minimum wage. Is it a bluff? Sure why not if that makes you happy. It's all a bluff.
> 
> Uber and Lyft will pay more than minimum wage and just like Wal*Mart and McDonald's, you also get to tell Uber and Lyft when you will work and who you will work with. Wal*Mart is famous for that, along with letting you work at Target during the same time you work at Wal*Mart.
> 
> Now all we have to do to enjoy being an employee of Uber and Lyft is move to Fantasyland.


They'll do the exact same thing or worse under Prop 22.

Uber and Lyft will ALWAYS pay the least amount possible.

Always.

All of you claiming to make 25-30-40-50-100 an hour, you'll be the first ones deactivated if Prop 22 passes.

Start looking for another job.

A real one.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> They'll do the exact same thing or worse under Prop 22.
> 
> Uber and Lyft will ALWAYS pay the least amount possible.
> 
> ...


I disagree and feel they would hire the best diamond drivers and tell the cry babies to take a hike


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## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

Nats121 said:


> In most cases, when Uber "loses money" on a ride it means the ride was heavily discounted. The beneficiary is the pax, and usually Uber as well because the purpose of the discount is the same as supermarket weekly specials... to build the brand via "loss leaders".
> 
> Meanwhile, you the driver are still being paid the same shitty 1970s pay rates for those rides, so in most cases the driver's cut is higher but his earnings are unchanged.


When Scruber charges _2.70 booking fee plus takes their cut how exactly do they lose money ?


----------



## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> I disagree and feel they would hire the best diamond drivers and tell the cry babies to take a hike


There may still be Diamond drivers but they'll be paid a lot less and be crying a lot more.


----------



## Escoman (Jun 28, 2016)

Fusion_LUser said:


> That's just stupid. And not just your incoherent rambling. Prop 22 is not a fix it all it's just the lesser of 2 evil plans. AB5 is supported by those who can't manage to make money in a zero skills job so they believe Daddy Government will save them. If Prop 22 fails it will be people like you here in January whining about (1) how Uber and/or Lyft has not hired you to be an employee and now you have no job or (2) that you have to work a schedule that you can't work (3) how you can't work both Uber and Lyft at the same time (4) how you hate having to pick up the worst of the worst pax in the worst areas and most importantly how (5) your minimum wage pay has a bunch of deductions now and you are not even *taking home* minimum wage.
> 
> At least with Prop 22 scrubs who can't manage to make any money get some kind of base pay, you will still be able to drive when you want and where you want and you won't be limited to minimum wage.


22 is simply garbage there is nothing good in it for drivers Ab5 is crap but gives us some rights and bargaining power. 22 keeps us under the companies thumbs


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## Nats121 (Jul 19, 2017)

Escoman said:


> When Scruber charges _2.70 booking fee plus takes their cut how exactly do they lose money ?


I'm talking about rides in which Uber's pay out to the driver is larger than the fare paid by the rider. Those are obvious money-losers, but as I said, most of those are loss-leader rides that have been heavily discounted for marketing purposes.

You're preaching to the choir here because if you look up my posts in the archives you'll see that I've said zillions of times that Uber is making a profit on our rides and has been trying to cover-up that fact.

I've had a zillion debates about that on this website.



observer said:


> Uber and Lyft will ALWAYS pay the least amount possible.


The Uber apologists' fallback defense for Uber is "all companies do it" when presented with examples of Uber's unethical behavior.

I'd like to ask the defenders if THEY'RE being paid the rock-bottom minimum salary for their particular occupation.

We know for a fact that even entry-level jobs such as McD cashiers offer raises.



observer said:


> Start looking for another job.


The Uber apologists like to tell the Uber critics to do that very thing. The apologists like to lecture about how rideshare is just a disposable little side-gig and not a career, how it's just a bridge and shouldn't be looked upon as anything but a temporary thing, etc.

It's ironic how tenaciously many of those same apologists are trying to cling to this "unskilled" little gig with all of their sky-is-falling talk about employee status for drivers.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

observer said:


> There may still be Diamond drivers but they'll be paid a lot less and be crying a lot more.


I would find a different gig


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

observer said:


> They'll do the exact same thing or worse under Prop 22.
> 
> Uber and Lyft will ALWAYS pay the least amount possible.


Well then enjoy working as an employee making the least amount possible. For people like you AB5 or Prop 22 doesn't matter because you will always be at the bottom of the barrel happy to make an asspenny amount like minimum wage. If you can't manage to make anything now AB5 or Prop 22 is not going to be any better.



Nats121 said:


> We know for a fact that even entry-level jobs such as McD cashiers offer raises.


And do entry level jobs such a McD let you pick your own hours as an employee? How about pick which McD you get to work at? Can you work at Carl's Jr. during the same time you work for McD? I know little ant the Uber Apologist just don't get it.

Prop 22 is going to pass so you should take the advice @observer offers and find a *REAL* job that requires real skills if you want to make more than minimum wage in life.


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## DerBundes (May 16, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok CA. you won but you lost. So now thousands of poor unskilled workers will lose a source of income.


And those thousands of unskilled workers, will have more money in their pockets, since they no longer have to burden BOTH operational costs and 33% of their wages just for the "luxury" of working for UBER. Ever thought of that?!


----------



## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Ok


Fusion_LUser said:


> Well then enjoy working as an employee making the least amount possible. For people like you AB5 or Prop 22 doesn't matter because you will always be at the bottom of the barrel happy to make an asspenny amount like minimum wage. If you can't manage to make anything now AB5 or Prop 22 is not going to be any better.
> 
> 
> And do entry level jobs such a McD let you pick your own hours as an employee? How about pick which McD you get to work at? Can you work at Carl's Jr. during the same time you work for McD? I know little ant the Uber Apologist just don't get it.
> ...





DerBundes said:


> And those thousands of unskilled workers, will have more money in their pockets, since they no longer have to burden BOTH operational costs and 33% of their wages just for the "luxury" of working for UBER. Ever thought of that?!


Really listening to this thread and others like it. I do not see any gains made by either side. It's a mess just like I predicted.



Fusion_LUser said:


> Well then enjoy working as an employee making the least amount possible. For people like you AB5 or Prop 22 doesn't matter because you will always be at the bottom of the barrel happy to make an asspenny amount like minimum wage. If you can't manage to make anything now AB5 or Prop 22 is not going to be any better.
> 
> 
> And do entry level jobs such a McD let you pick your own hours as an employee? How about pick which McD you get to work at? Can you work at Carl's Jr. during the same time you work for McD? I know little ant the Uber Apologist just don't get it.
> ...


I feel that in order to make a business model work you have to be netting a minimum of 25 dollars an hour.
Anyone wearing out there vehicle ( mine has 299.271 ) for minimum wage is losing money.
Honestly the only thing that saves my bacon is the IC IRS deductions.


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## DerBundes (May 16, 2016)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok
> Really LISTENING to this thread and others like it. I do not see any gains made by either side. It's a mess just like I predicted.


&#129300;&#129300;&#129300;&#129300;


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Jimmy44 said:


> Ok
> Really listening to this thread and others like it. I do not see any gains made by either side. It's a mess just like I predicted.


Welcome to California! If Sacramento has not already messed everything up beyond repair you can count on Sacramento to "fix" that little detail by messing it up!


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Welcome to California! If Sacramento has not already messed everything up beyond repair you can count on Sacramento to "fix" that little detail by messing it up!


Sounds a lot like Albany NY


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

observer said:


> There may still be Diamond drivers but they'll be paid a lot less and be crying a lot more.


huh? If we were to be employees why would there be Pro and points at all? Pings go away; decisions go away. You go on shift and you take every dispatch order sent your way. Decline & be fired.

Employees don't get to choose what tasks they will be doing, right?

How does it work with cabs? Can they turn down dispatch orders?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> huh? If we were to be employees why would there be Pro and points at all? Pings go away; decisions go away. You go on shift and you take every dispatch order sent your way. Decline & be fired.
> 
> Employees don't get to choose what tasks they will be doing, right?
> 
> How does it work with cabs? Can they turn down dispatch orders?


Preaching to the choir 
I bet you if you polled 1000 drivers on why they drive the sense of Independence would be first on there list.
If it turns into what you described you may as well work at Walmart.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> If it turns into what you described you may as well work at Walmart.


if? Weren't you an employee for a great amount of time?


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

Escoman said:


> Ah an Uber Schill hard at work . When 22 passes Uber can do whatever they want . sacramento will wash their hands and walk. Everything reverts and you get $12 an hour while engaged in a trip and.30 mile so Uber will lower driver pay to offset it. Assuming they even pay you. How is it to get a cancellation fee or a fare adjustment ? These companies spent $180,000,000 the largest amount in history on an initiative and you think it's to protect drivers ?
> 
> 
> Jimmy Uber shows us the destination and earnings before we accept the ride. So we can choose which rides are profitable. We are allowed to set our own surge multiplier so you can charge from half fare to 3x on every trip. Pax get an offer saying this ride will cost $18 do you accept they say yes or no .


Seems prop 22 sets a floor on earnings, but no ceiling. As an IC I can decline unprofitable rides. If I have to rely on the minimums, I might as well get a forklift job in a warehouse.

As an employee described in AB5, I look forward to being a part time, minimum wage employee. This is the likely outcome if prop 22 fails and AB5 is successfully enforced. Then I have to hope that they actually hire me. (Actually, I would not even apply.)

Cancellation fee or fare adjustments? No, you are paid by the hour as an employee. Setting your own rates as an employee? Avoiding low tip areas? I do not understand how that is possible.

Frankly, your arguments point to voting yes on prop 22 in order to retain your freedom to decline offers and set your own rates. As an employee, you are in a straitjacket.

Am I a corporate shill because I disagree with your viewpoint? No. Am I a shill trying to preserve my profitable IC propietership? Guilty.

Finally, dollars per hour is an not a good indicator of profitability. Ask any shop owner just starting out how many hours they put in. Do they care, maybe? But their main goal is profitability. In the driving game, profit is best measured by dollars per mile, not dollars per hour, in my opinion.



Fusion_LUser said:


> I used to go by the hour but now its the daily total. The fare multiplier for me has been a game changer since I might just get 1 or 2 rides an hour but clear far more per hour overall vs. rides at the normal rate.


Bro, it's dollar per mile. Dollar per hour is the employee wage slave measurement.

Earnings minus gas, repairs, maintenance, depreciation, etc., determine your true profitability.

Fare multiplier, plus or minus base fare, based on circumstances, is indeed a gift from above. You are free.



The Gift of Fish said:


> The people who think that Uber should be placated at any cost remind me of women who are afraid to leave abusive partners.
> 
> - "I can't leave him - I'd have nowhere to go!"
> - "I can't leave him - he pays for my food, and _does _let me go out on my own sometimes"
> ...


Minor negatives? Major market interruption for drivers.
What is going to be worth it in the long run, and for whom?



W00dbutcher said:


> So you would rather have the person who is doing all the work get ripped off by Uber and Lyft?
> 
> The only reason why Uber/Lyft is popular is because cheap ass passengers refuse to pay what's really needed or a proper Transportation company.
> 
> In my market it's a $0.70 difference between Uber and a real taxi company. That's $0.70 that you would normally pay will be the maintenance and upkeep for the vehicles. But instead Uber and Lyft has decided to put it all on the driver and not charge the passenger who's using the service in the first place.


Blame it on the customers.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

Jimmy44 said:


> I agree totally finding that sometimes those so called lousy rides get you a nice five dollar cash tip.
> My acceptance rate was like 99% as I found the algas rewarded you.
> I never parked my car and waited as I found staying on the move got me away from the heard.
> It also helped me rack up that 56 cents a mile deduction.
> ...


I have no idea what your point is.

I don't think you do either



Escoman said:


> You are wrong on many levels. Uber no longer allows you to see the fare and you are paid a flat per mile per minute. I recently took a 2.6 Mile trip late at night. Uber kept sending notices very few drivers available quoting me $25 to $28 I rejected 8 offers before giving in. I paid $26 at end of trip I had the driver show me his app $3.55 was what he was paid .How does that factor into 80%? So 6 years how many contracts did you willingly agree to ? How many rate cuts did you approve ? Collective bargaining scares them to death because they no longer have the last word. Why do they need to offer rides they lose $on ? Free market no competition. If people can't afford it use public transit.We spent years in litigation to make it a better Gig. 22 gives all the gains back 22costs these companies nothing. $12 hr while on trip is a joke .30 Mile is an insult. Uber deserves to rot in Hell. Taxrs we pay will be offset by higher income and no expenses. My car has 16 inch tires a set of 4 with alignment ran $600 that's allot of trips . $45 to fill my tank for $400 miles. Incentives have to be paid to get people on the road. If rates were better more would drive those hours. Why do U/L need to have hq in SFO? Most expensive city in U.S ? They pay customer service and driver support people over $80,000 to start . How many drivers work 40 hours and make $1,600 week after expenses ?


You are correct that Uber took this info away sometime recently. But for years and years when they had that info, it proved my point. Now we can't say for sure what's going on since we don't have the data. We can assume, it that's stupid.



Escoman said:


> You are wrong on many levels. Uber no longer allows you to see the fare and you are paid a flat per mile per minute. I recently took a 2.6 Mile trip late at night. Uber kept sending notices very few drivers available quoting me $25 to $28 I rejected 8 offers before giving in. I paid $26 at end of trip I had the driver show me his app $3.55 was what he was paid .How does that factor into 80%? So 6 years how many contracts did you willingly agree to ? How many rate cuts did you approve ? Collective bargaining scares them to death because they no longer have the last word. Why do they need to offer rides they lose $on ? Free market no competition. If people can't afford it use public transit.We spent years in litigation to make it a better Gig. 22 gives all the gains back 22costs these companies nothing. $12 hr while on trip is a joke .30 Mile is an insult. Uber deserves to rot in Hell. Taxrs we pay will be offset by higher income and no expenses. My car has 16 inch tires a set of 4 with alignment ran $600 that's allot of trips . $45 to fill my tank for $400 miles. Incentives have to be paid to get people on the road. If rates were better more would drive those hours. Why do U/L need to have hq in SFO? Most expensive city in U.S ? They pay customer service and driver support people over $80,000 to start . How many drivers work 40 hours and make $1,600 week after expenses ?


also, the driver was supposed to get a 5x multiplier based on what you paid but instead was paid base rate. This happens sometimes and it's mostly a technical glitch not a dr evil type screw over. Basically what happens is the surge ended for the driver a split second before it ended for the pax.



Nats121 said:


> In most cases, when Uber "loses money" on a ride it means the ride was heavily discounted. The beneficiary is the pax, and usually Uber as well because the purpose of the discount is the same as supermarket weekly specials... to build the brand via "loss leaders".
> 
> Meanwhile, you the driver are still being paid the same shitty 1970s pay rates for those rides, so in most cases the driver's cut is higher but his earnings are unchanged.


would you prefer to have those coupon discounts come out of your end too?


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Judge and Jury said:


> Am I a corporate shill because I disagree with your viewpoint?


I think if you don't hate U/L full time, you are either an employee of either or a shill. At least to the troll/socks here who combined have the IQ of a bag of door knobs. &#129335;‍♂
Just go with it and admit what they are dancing about. Then they throw a tantrum; it's entertaining.


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## Gigworker (Oct 23, 2019)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Well then enjoy working as an employee making the least amount possible. For people like you AB5 or Prop 22 doesn't matter because you will always be at the bottom of the barrel happy to make an asspenny amount like minimum wage. If you can't manage to make anything now AB5 or Prop 22 is not going to be any better.
> 
> 
> And do entry level jobs such a McD let you pick your own hours as an employee? How about pick which McD you get to work at? Can you work at Carl's Jr. during the same time you work for McD? I know little ant the Uber Apologist just don't get it.
> ...


Most of the drivers got " real skills ", and only do Uber for extra income, or to get out of the house for a few hours. Only around 20% drive full time, and why do people think drivers are unskilled ?


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gigworker said:


> Most of the drivers got " real skills ", and only do Uber for extra income, or to get out of the house for a few hours. Only around 20% drive full time, and why do people think drivers are unskilled ?


I am in the 20% that has done it full time for five years.
It wasn't long ago when part timers could make full time money by only driving durring surge times.


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## Fusion_LUser (Jan 3, 2020)

Gigworker said:


> Most of the drivers got " real skills ", and only do Uber for extra income, or to get out of the house for a few hours. Only around 20% drive full time, and why do people think drivers are unskilled ?


Ridesharing is a no-skills required job and pretty much anyone can do it. What's unique about ridesharing is that if you have the skills you can make pretty good money... far more than other no-skill jobs where you make minimum wage or slightly more.

Now back to your question, it was another member who said suggests if Prop 22 passes we will will all need to get real jobs that requires real skills if you want to make more than minimum wage. I was merely passing that suggestion on to another UP member.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Gigworker said:


> why do people think drivers are unskilled ?


I think it is more doing RS itself requires no skills beyond knowing how to drive. No resume required, no interview etc. Be able to drive, communicate & have insurance. That's pretty much it. 
But yes, quite possible and probable that a RS drivers has other skills used for another job.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Ridesharing is a no-skills required job and pretty much anyone can do it. What's unique about ridesharing is that if you have the skills you can make pretty good money... far more than other no-skill jobs where you make minimum wage or slightly more.
> 
> Now back to your question, it was another member who said suggests if Prop 22 passes we will will all need to get real jobs that requires real skills if you want to make more than minimum wage. I was merely passing that suggestion on to another UP member.





SHalester said:


> I think it is more doing RS itself requires no skills beyond knowing how to drive. No resume required, no interview etc. Be able to drive, communicate & have insurance. That's pretty much it.
> But yes, quite possible and probable that a RS drivers has other skills used for another job.


You tend to forget how scary and difficult your first day or two.
So many things are second nature to us now that we forget to include them when we list what it takes to be a driver.
I don't want to list them all but let it suffice to say it entails more then just having a driver's license.


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## Gigworker (Oct 23, 2019)

Fusion_LUser said:


> Ridesharing is a no-skills required job and pretty much anyone can do it. What's unique about ridesharing is that if you have the skills you can make pretty good money... far more than other no-skill jobs where you make minimum wage or slightly more.
> 
> Now back to your question, it was another member who said suggests if Prop 22 passes we will will all need to get real jobs that requires real skills if you want to make more than minimum wage. I was merely passing that suggestion on to another UP member.


Good point !



Jimmy44 said:


> I am in the 20% that has done it full time for five years.
> It wasn't long ago when part timers could make full time money by only driving durring surge times.


Good point !


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> You tend to forget how scary and difficult your first day or two.


I did? My first week there was a learning curve, certainly. But that has nothing to do with having skills. I was a bit nervous my first few rides & learning to deal with the app. None of which requires any specific skills beyond patience.

Doing RS is easy vs just about any other job. You self train yourself, that is the learning curve. As I said if you can drive, you can figure the rest out.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Gigworker said:


> Good point !
> 
> 
> Good point !





SHalester said:


> I did? My first week there was a learning curve, certainly. But that has nothing to do with having skills. I was a bit nervous my first few rides & learning to deal with the app. None of which requires any specific skills beyond patience.
> 
> Doing RS is easy vs just about any other job. You self train yourself, that is the learning curve. As I said if you can drive, you can figure the rest out.


My feelings are very different. Every ride was totally unique and called upon your experience and knowledge and your ability to read the situation and the passenger.
Just when you thought you had seen everything something new pops up.
You have to maintain your cool in the mist of what could become a three ring circus.
To do it correctly requires much thought and expertise.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> To do it correctly requires much thought and expertise.


is it possible you are confusing experience with skills? RS requires no skills, beyond the few requirements. That was and is my opinion. RS vs most other job positions.

My area, my pax must be angels. No drama here. Hardly think about it at all beyond trying to figure out where the dam house # is hiding. If I wanted drama and stress I'd go back to my career. RS is easy, peasy. As long as one doesn't drive at night, in a dense city, on the weekends, or events. No drama day driving.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> is it possible you are confusing experience with skills? RS requires no skills, beyond the few requirements. That was and is my opinion. RS vs most other job positions.
> 
> My area, my pax must be angels. No drama here. Hardly think about it at all beyond trying to figure out where the dam house # is hiding. If I wanted drama and stress I'd go back to my career. RS is easy, peasy. As long as one doesn't drive at night, in a dense city, on the weekends, or events. No drama day driving.





SHalester said:


> is it possible you are confusing experience with skills? RS requires no skills, beyond the few requirements. That was and is my opinion. RS vs most other job positions.
> 
> My area, my pax must be angels. No drama here. Hardly think about it at all beyond trying to figure out where the dam house # is hiding. If I wanted drama and stress I'd go back to my career. RS is easy, peasy. As long as one doesn't drive at night, in a dense city, on the weekends, or events. No drama day driving.


I guess there are a ton of variables as two where and when all of us drive.
Unless we all drive the same areas and time of day it's difficult to make judgements as to difficulty.
My days are spent at airports, train stations, casinos, concerts and sporting events. These places are as busy durring the day as night.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

SHalester said:


> I think if you don't hate U/L full time, you are either an employee of either or a shill. At least to the troll/socks here who combined have the IQ of a bag of door knobs. &#129335;‍♂
> Just go with it and admit what they are dancing about. Then they throw a tantrum; it's entertaining.


fact that will blow your mind #1: there are actually real people who don't work for Uber who do not hate them "full time" as you put it

fact that will blow your mind #2: there's a lot of us



SHalester said:


> is it possible you are confusing experience with skills? RS requires no skills, beyond the few requirements. That was and is my opinion. RS vs most other job positions.
> 
> My area, my pax must be angels. No drama here. Hardly think about it at all beyond trying to figure out where the dam house # is hiding. If I wanted drama and stress I'd go back to my career. RS is easy, peasy. As long as one doesn't drive at night, in a dense city, on the weekends, or events. No drama day driving.


you don't need skills to get a RS job

you DO need skills to do well at a RS job

some examples of skills: people skills, knowing your city, knowing the hotspots, strategizing the best ways to get the most money, etc etc


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

iheartuber said:


> fact that will blow your mind #1: there are actually real people who don't work for Uber who do not hate them "full time" as you put it
> 
> fact that will blow your mind #2: there's a lot of us
> 
> ...


Amen, brother


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

iheartuber said:


> you don't need skills to get a RS job


yeah, thank for repeating my opinion. :thumbup: &#129318;‍♂


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

SHalester said:


> yeah, thank for repeating my opinion. :thumbup: &#129318;‍♂


Just getting the job is nothing. Doing well in the job after you got it is the key. Because if you sign up for Uber, you have no skills, you do VERY poorly at it, and you make no money, then you may as well not even have the job in the first place!!

That's the part you ignored.

So, for all intents & purposes, I'll say this one more time and hopefully you don't get confused this time:

Basically, you DO need skills to have a RS job.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

iheartuber said:


> Basically, you DO need skills to have a RS job.


I didn't ignore a thing. I essentially disagree with your opinion. Doing RS takes no skills beyond knowing how to drive a car, very minimum ability with an 'app' and perhaps some ability to communicate to the pax. I don't count those as skills you would list on a resume and I doubt you do. 
As seen by the population of drivers, there are really no barriers to becoming a RS driver. And really, besides making a few dollars nothing that is really needed to KEEP being a RS driver.

I hope this reduces your confusion on just what I ignored¿


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

SHalester said:


> I didn't ignore a thing. I essentially disagree with your opinion. Doing RS takes no skills beyond knowing how to drive a car, very minimum ability with an 'app' and perhaps some ability to communicate to the pax. I don't count those as skills you would list on a resume and I doubt you do.
> As seen by the population of drivers, there are really no barriers to becoming a RS driver. And really, besides making a few dollars nothing that is really needed to KEEP being a RS driver.
> 
> I hope this reduces your confusion on just what I ignored¿


These are the skills you will need to do this RS job well enough to make good money doing it: skills of dealing with people, skills of being strategic on where and when to be in order to earn the most money, skills of knowing all the hotspots of your city, etc etc.. There are more but that's just off the top of my head. You get the idea.

if you do this job WITHOUT having/using those skills, then you will end up like all the other drivers we hear about making less than minimum wage doing this job. If you do this job and make less than minimum wage you may as well quit and get another job that does pay minimum wage where you really DON'T need any skills.

So, while you are technically correct, you don't need skills to get this job, if you do this job and make less than minimum wage, then what's the point? just quit. If you want to make more (much more) then minimum wage doing this job, then you need.... SKILLS!!!

I hope this clears up YOUR confusion


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

iheartuber said:


> If you want to make more (much more) then minimum wage doing this job, then you need.... SKILLS!!!


yeah, no. Sorry. You speak more of experience vs required skills. No matter how you dress it up RS is not a career one aims for. In fact, not a career at all; can never improve your position, can never build your client base (beyond working more hours). Once a RS driver, no place to go.

for the record: I was never confused.  :thumbup:


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## W00dbutcher (Jan 14, 2019)

You can always gets client off of uber. I do it all the time and I've been doing it since I started in this business.

Then again it takes skills most RS drivers don't possess.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> yeah, no. Sorry. You speak more of experience vs required skills. No matter how you dress it up RS is not a career one aims for. In fact, not a career at all; can never improve your position, can never build your client base (beyond working more hours). Once a RS driver, no place to go.
> 
> for the record: I was never confused.  :thumbup:


There was a small window in 2016 where I could make 300 a 10 hour day. That all went away when surge pricing went to this new system.
After being away since March I know longer have the passion for the job I once had.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Lost me at 10 hours.


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## Judge and Jury (Oct 19, 2019)

The Gift of Fish said:


> Well said. AB5 is a good start in the right direction of forcing these gig employers to step up and play ball on a level playing field. That's all it is - it's far from perfect and it's not a finished product in my eyes.
> 
> For example, a farmer who needs help just for a few weeks during harvest season should be able to hire IC contractors to help him out, but under AB5 he will have to hire workers as employees and then dismiss them. That makes little sense.
> 
> However, the legislation can be amended and I would expect it to be moving forward


AB5 has been amended numerous times to carve out exemptions for numerous industries.
Even the trucking industry, which has had long standing battles regarding the IC vs. employee status has escaped the horrors of AB5. Further, the battle regarding newspaper couriers' status got an extension, which is an ongoing pattern in that industry.
AB5 was targeted at drivers for gig apps. 
The most populous cities and counties, the courts, the legislative and executive branches all seem content on forcing part time, minimum wage employee status.
I do not foresee any amendments to AB5 that would retain our status as IC's.
Vote YES on prop 22.


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## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Fusion_LUser said:


> That's just stupid. And not just your incoherent rambling. Prop 22 is not a fix it all it's just the lesser of 2 evil plans. AB5 is supported by those who can't manage to make money in a zero skills job so they believe Daddy Government will save them. If Prop 22 fails it will be people like you here in January whining about (1) how Uber and/or Lyft has not hired you to be an employee and now you have no job or (2) that you have to work a schedule that you can't work (3) how you can't work both Uber and Lyft at the same time (4) how you hate having to pick up the worst of the worst pax in the worst areas and most importantly how (5) your minimum wage pay has a bunch of deductions now and you are not even *taking home* minimum wage.
> 
> At least with Prop 22 scrubs who can't manage to make any money get some kind of base pay, you will still be able to drive when you want and where you want and you won't be limited to minimum wage.


The simplification of this U/L issue is getting out of hand. 
It's not as simple as your characterization is. 
No one knows for sure what's going to happen if prop 22 fails. One thing I know for sure, is that matching riders with drivers has proven to be a lucrative sub industry. 
Whatever scare tactics U/L uses, the undeniable fact is that there will be a driver/passenger business in this country. Can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. How it will be and who will do it, is the question.
One solution that will make driving more of a profession is Health Care. If healthcare were not an issue, it would take a big burden away from employers and employees. 
Sorry for the rant....but I'm lucky to have a private and government (VA) healthcare plans. Just think of the people that have families especially those with pre existing medical conditions. 
Health Care for all just like every civilized country has is the answer.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> Lost me at 10 hours.


10 hour days were nothing for me in 2016.
The last year's not so much.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> 10 hour days were nothing for me in 2016.


I did many days of 10+ hours in my career. But I'd never do one as a RS driver. Simply does not pay me enough to justify working THAT long or hard.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Big Lou said:


> The simplification of this U/L issue is getting out of hand.
> It's not as simple as your characterization is.
> No one knows for sure what's going to happen if prop 22 fails. One thing I know for sure, is that matching riders with drivers has proven to be a lucrative sub industry.
> Whatever scare tactics U/L uses, the undeniable fact is that there will be a driver/passenger business in this country. Can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. How it will be and who will do it, is the question.
> ...


Anyone who needs healthcare should not be considering U/L



SHalester said:


> I did many days of 10+ hours in my career. But I'd never do one as a RS driver. Simply does not pay me enough to justify working THAT long or hard.


Did you drive in 2015 or 2016 ?
Surge pricing was like a shot of 5 hour energy.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Did you drive in 2015 or 2016 ?


thank god no, was firmly in my career until 2015 and then I went half time until 2017 when I fully retired. RS began mid 2019, when school volunteering gig (and a school job for 6 months) dried up.

Even with surge it would not paid me as much as my career, not even close.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> thank god no, was firmly in my career until 2015 and then I went half time until 2017 when I fully retired. RS began mid 2019, when school volunteering gig (and a school job for 6 months) dried up.
> 
> Even with surge it would not paid me as much as my career, not even close.


Yes I agree that even in 2015 doing it full time was not something I would recommend.
I think I may have been one of maybe 5% that we're actually doing it.
I was fortunate that I never got sick or injured durring the 5 years.


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## The Gift of Fish (Mar 17, 2017)

Judge and Jury said:


> I do not foresee any amendments to AB5 that would retain our status as IC's.


Yes, you correctly understand AB5. It is indeed intended to make rideshare drivers employees, not IC.


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## Big Lou (Dec 11, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> Anyone who needs healthcare should not be considering U/L
> 
> 
> Did you drive in 2015 or 2016 ?
> Surge pricing was like a shot of 5 hour energy.


Everybody needs healthcare coverage. Just think of the problems it would solve with employees staying in a dead end job just to keep their stinking healthcare. What if they were free to move around or even quit. That would be a boost to our economy.
I still think and hope that we will see this country move into the civilized category when it. We can afford it. Remember,,,,,,All lives matter!



Jimmy44 said:


> 10 hour days were nothing for me in 2016.
> The last year's not so much.


In this business....10 hour days is not in every drivers plans. Some are strictly part time or weekenders. Some even make, or try to, make a living doing this. Some ( like me) use driving to get travel money.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

Big Lou said:


> Everybody needs healthcare coverage. Just think of the problems it would solve with employees staying in a dead end job just to keep their stinking healthcare. What if they were free to move around or even quit. That would be a boost to our economy.
> I still think and hope that we will see this country move into the civilized category when it. We can afford it. Remember,,,,,,All lives matter!
> 
> 
> In this business....10 hour days is not in every drivers plans. Some are strictly part time or weekenders. Some even make, or try to, make a living doing this. Some ( like me) use driving to get travel money.


Totally agree.
Your 100% correct


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

SHalester said:


> yeah, no. Sorry. You speak more of experience vs required skills. No matter how you dress it up RS is not a career one aims for. In fact, not a career at all; can never improve your position, can never build your client base (beyond working more hours). Once a RS driver, no place to go.
> 
> for the record: I was never confused.  :thumbup:


I never said it was a career. All I said was to do well at this job you need skills. I even gave examples of what those skills are. Whether you do this job for one year or five there's no sense in making $5 an hour at it. Make a lot of money. But you need skills to do so.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

iheartuber said:


> But you need skills to do so


skills to drive. skills to figure out an app. skills to speak minimally to the paying customer.

Skills to walk and chew gum; your hired. &#129318;‍♂


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> skills to drive. skills to figure out an app. skills to speak minimally to the paying customer.
> 
> Skills to walk and chew gum; your hired. &#129318;‍♂


It might get you hired but does not guarantee you will keep your activation.
It also does not mean that you will become a really good driver.
I was a full time Uber X driver for 5 years and my feedback rating never dipped below 4.94. I also was diamond status as long as Uber pro arrived.
That does take skill and you need more then a license and the ability to use an app.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> That does take skill and you need more then a license and the ability to use an app.


now, we are back at experience vs skills. A circular debate.

It takes minimal skills, that most have already, to be a RS driver.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> now, we are back at experience vs skills. A circular debate.
> 
> It takes minimal skills, that most have already, to be a RS driver.


Lol I respond with my reply


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## FLKeys (Dec 27, 2018)

It is a pissing contest between Skill and Experience. Basic skills to do ride share is drive a car and use an app. Experience can make you better at driving ride share. Some could argue it is a skill to learn from your experience in order to do a better job.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

FLKeys said:


> It is a pissing contest between Skill and Experience. Basic skills to do ride share is drive a car and use an app. Experience can make you better at driving ride share. Some could argue it is a skill to learn from your experience in order to do a better job.


I am not bragging but I do feel I am in the top 5% of rideshare drivers.
To get to my level ( and I am not talking about diamond ) would require years of Uber X driving.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> but I do feel I am in the top 5% of rideshare drivers.


...if only there was a badge for that......     &#129318;‍♂ &#129318;‍♂ &#129318;‍♂ &#129318;‍♂


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> ...if only there was a badge for that......     &#129318;‍♂ &#129318;‍♂ &#129318;‍♂ &#129318;‍♂


You know its not about being recognized.
It's that inner feeling you get when you just know how good you are.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> It's that inner feeling you get when you just know how good you are.


...and you are still not bragging. If only there was a metric for the 'top 5%'; you could self nominate, aye? &#129318;‍♂


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> ...and you are still not bragging. If only there was a metric for the 'top 5%'; you could self nominate, aye? &#129318;‍♂


You really don't get it.
You can't even have an adult conversation with you.


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

Jimmy44 said:


> You really don't get it.
> You can't even have an adult conversation with you.


That's not nice, Jimmy. Here i was suggesting you could self nominate for an award. Oh, you aren't bragging. Sorry, man. &#129318;‍♂


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## observer (Dec 11, 2014)

Jimmy44 said:


> Anyone who needs healthcare should not be considering U/L


You could say the same about Unemployment Insurance.


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

SHalester said:


> skills to drive. skills to figure out an app. skills to speak minimally to the paying customer.
> 
> Skills to walk and chew gum; your hired. &#129318;‍♂


Sir please don't be obtuse

You should know as well as anyone that if you park your car on a random street corner take a ping, and then just let whatever happens happen from there you will make less than minimum wage.

You should know as well as anyone that to make good money doing this job you need a plan, a strategy.You have to be at the right place at the right time. You have to hit bonuses, surges, crowds, rush hours, etc.

Those are all considerably more skills required than walking and chewing gum.

wassamatta wit chu?!


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## SHalester (Aug 25, 2019)

iheartuber said:


> You should know as well as anyone that to make good money doing this job you need a plan, a strategy


that isn't a skill, it's an experience. Which was my point pages ago. &#129318;‍♂

A plan? Strategy? Oh, those are needed, for like, a W2 job. Yup, got it. Get a ping, accept a ping. That easy. Set a minimum, set a max and you are done. Next ping, please.


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## Jimmy44 (Jan 12, 2020)

SHalester said:


> that isn't a skill, it's an experience. Which was my point pages ago. &#129318;‍♂
> 
> A plan? Strategy? Oh, those are needed, for like, a W2 job. Yup, got it. Get a ping, accept a ping. That easy. Set a minimum, set a max and you are done. Next ping, please.


It must be way harder in Connecticut


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## iheartuber (Oct 31, 2015)

SHalester said:


> that isn't a skill, it's an experience. Which was my point pages ago. &#129318;‍♂
> 
> A plan? Strategy? Oh, those are needed, for like, a W2 job. Yup, got it. Get a ping, accept a ping. That easy. Set a minimum, set a max and you are done. Next ping, please.


well if I call it skill and you call it experience, what's the difference?

some people just don't have the talent to think this way. Nothing against them, maybe their talents lie in other things.


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