# If you aint driving off the app just lol @ you



## DontGoToPaterson (Mar 15, 2019)

When the bars close and you get long trips, a lot of these pax are desperate for rides. Go off the app, and tell them youll do it for 5 or 7$ cheaper. Pay via venmo or zelle. 

Start hustling the side hustle.


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## Grubhubflub (Jun 16, 2018)

Why would you do it for cheaper though?


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## smithers54 (Jan 7, 2019)

wait till you get into a accident and have no protection


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## pwnzor (Jun 27, 2017)

For that matter, why not just hang around outside bars and let random people in your car for cash?

Let us know how that works out for you.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

smithers54 said:


> wait till you get into a accident and have no protection


Car ? Totaled no coverage. You got an offer for $850 at the scrap yard for what’s left of the car. It would triple what it’s worth to replace it.

the other guy?

uninsured no coverage.

your passenger?

Minor back injury $68,000 in medical costs.


So can you afford to pay for your passengers injured back out of pocket?

There’s no one who can afford to take that loss who is desperate enough to drive for Uber.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Don't do cash rides. You're asking for financial ruin if you do so. If the pax is desperate for a ride just ask for a $20 or more cash tip up front and then do the ride on the app as normal, but with an extra $20 bill in your pocket.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> When the bars close and you get long trips, a lot of these pax are desperate for rides. Go off the app, and tell them youll do it for 5 or 7$ cheaper. Pay via venmo or zelle.
> 
> Start hustling the side hustle.


No, you stay on the app and tell them it will be extra x $$$ cash upfront.

The extra is whatever you calculate is making you total $1 mile or more and extra for putting up with their shit, piss, vomit etc.

If you cash fare bars your asking to get stung. Seen it happen.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Grubhubflub said:


> Why would you do it for cheaper though?


That's the hook and deal sealer.



DontGoToPaterson said:


> When the bars close and you get long trips, a lot of these pax are desperate for rides. Go off the app, and tell them youll do it for 5 or 7$ cheaper. Pay via venmo or zelle.
> 
> Start hustling the side hustle.



The question is: why are you telling them water is wet? The obvious doesn't need a post.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

smithers54 said:


> wait till you get into a accident and have no protection


If you crash more than twice a year, I would be concerned, you speak of lottery numbers otherwise.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Car ? Totaled no coverage. You got an offer for $850 at the scrap yard for what’s left of the car. It would triple what it’s worth to replace it.
> 
> the other guy?
> 
> ...


And if you can't you just go bankrupt, what's the worse they can do to you? Don't say jail.

Culpability is not only on the drivers side but in the riders side for taking such risk, they both violated the law, the settlement is civil, not criminal if the pax wins.

You boys need to stop scaring people for no reason.


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## thepukeguy (10 mo ago)

I know a former Lyft driver that slowly transitioned into cash rides with a regular list of riders. Airport rides mostly. Even on a slow day she still makes like 250 closer to 1000 on a busy day.

From where I live to the airport Uber and Lyft pay us like $18 we rarely get tips and you spend like eight dollars in gas. She charges around 50 and usually gets a $20 tip. The omg hide yo wife risk people are always yimmer yammering about is definitely real but they don’t ever mention the reward part of that equation.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

Screwber driver north said:


> And if you can't you just go bankrupt, what's the worse they can do to you? Don't say jail.
> 
> Culpability is not only on the drivers side but in the riders side for taking such risk, they both violated the law, the settlement is civil, not criminal if the pax wins.
> 
> You boys need to stop scaring people for no reason.


Just had a story here about a driver that got into an accident on a cash trip.

Took his license away for three years and until he pays up hundreds of thousands of bills. Although filing bankruptcy could eliminate the bills, it's a DMV decision, not a court decision, if they will reinstitute the license as driving is a privilege and NOT a right.

And yes if drivers keep abusing the law about not carrying commercial insurance, stricter laws and enforcement will ensue, including jail time.

If your so hot that you want to be a taxi, just find out the requirements in your area. Some are as simple as having commercial insurance and a business license, a sign in the window. Commercial insurance runs about $500-$1000 a month or so depending upon drivers record, vehicle insured and so forth.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Just had a story here about a driver that got into an accident on a cash trip.
> 
> Took his license away for three years and until he pays up hundreds of thousands of bills. Although filing bankruptcy could eliminate the bills, it's a DMV decision, not a court decision, if they will reinstitute the license as driving is a privilege and NOT a right.
> 
> ...


Good post. Drivers doing cash rides and ignoring the risks are idiots. Sure the odds are long by why would anyone take that risk? Complete idiocy.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> And if you can't you just go bankrupt, what's the worse they can do to you? Don't say jail.
> 
> Culpability is not only on the drivers side but in the riders side for taking such risk, they both violated the law, the settlement is civil, not criminal if the pax wins.
> 
> You boys need to stop scaring people for no reason.


They can put liens on your house, your vehicles, your bank and retirement accounts. With a lien it can take your tax refund if any. Depending on the court judgement some places can take your drivers license and CWP.


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> When the bars close and you get long trips, a lot of these pax are desperate for rides. Go off the app, and tell them youll do it for 5 or 7$ cheaper. Pay via venmo or zelle.
> 
> Start hustling the side hustle.


Better have insurance or risk being sued

After a late wreck with a under insurances no license high person on the wrong side of the highway Geico laughed at paying a nickel since I was doing rideshare

My pax and me in icu
Hospital costs are 200,000? Total
Thank god this was a legit ride


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

Atavar said:


> They can put liens on your house, your vehicles, your bank and retirement accounts. With a lien it can take your tax refund if any. Depending on the court judgement some places can take your drivers license and CWP.


They can lien future earnings 🤣


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## _Tron_ (Feb 9, 2020)

If this idiotic thread gets headlined I'm gonna take a hostage.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> And if you can't you just go bankrupt, what's the worse they can do to you? Don't say jail.
> 
> Culpability is not only on the drivers side but in the riders side for taking such risk, they both violated the law, the settlement is civil, not criminal if the pax wins.
> 
> You boys need to stop scaring people for no reason.


Losing your license until you pay everything off?

In florida having an accident on a cash ride is legally driving without insuranace. You get into an accident without insurance you lose your license for 3+ years. The plus is however long it takes you to pay off your accident.

That's a hell of a lot worse than a week in jail or 6 months of probation, which is also on the offense of driving a passenger for hire without insurance. If you have a bunch of injuries you arn't eligible for the minimum either.

The state of Florida can just deny you a driver's license until you pay the judgements, even if you are "judgement proof" they will just come back and say "driving is a privelege, you lost it. if you want to drive pay everything you owe".

But there is a limit to how long they can prevent you from driving. 20 years! So it's not forever but it might as well be.

Florida is ruthless in enforcing the law. No parole and all prison sentences must be served 85% before any eligibility for good behavior ect.

The also don't issue "hardship" licenses for having an accident while not insured, it's specifically listed in the reasons they deny. (as is refusing to take a breathalyzer, but that's beside the point).



And the customer has no legal anything to insure that you are legally operating.. The presumption is that your a licensed individual engaging in business.

Would someone from Toykyo Japan know that Osceola county vehicle for hire drivers need a windshield sticker?



Are customers expected to research the vehicle for hire laws in Osceola county Florida and insure that all for-hire drivers they ride with are in compliance?

Do you even know where Osceola county is?

Would I know what makes a legally licensed vehicle Chaffeur vehicle in Toykyo Japan?

Heck no.

You'd be crazy to expect that people would know these minutia of the business. Heck it took me 3 years to realize that Altamonte Springs Florida dropped the licensing requirements for taxis.

Altamonte springs used to have metal "medallions" that they issued to licensed vehicles that got riveted to your car. They looked way more real than the windshield stickers everyone else used. But alas, they are done and gone, never to be issued again.

As driver's it's our responsibility to operate with the proper insurance, we are civilally and criminally liable for our actions in our society.

It's not on our customers to police us, the number of customers i've had that are too drunk, blind, infirmed, or mentally incapable of determining if I am legal to operate is staggering. That's why it's on _*us*_.

Heck they could just assume that because a driver has the same "orange" license plate as the taxi parked next to me that I have a special plate. Reality is that in this jursidiction that taxis don't have a special plate at all, they have windshield stickers for the jurisdictions they are legal in. Most license plates in Florida just have an orange on them, and taxi companies will just get the default option.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Screwber driver north said:


> And if you can't you just go bankrupt, what's the worse they can do to you? Don't say jail.
> 
> Culpability is not only on the drivers side but in the riders side for taking such risk, they both violated the law, the settlement is civil, not criminal if the pax wins.
> 
> You boys need to stop scaring people for no reason.


In Colorado, an off app ride is $10k fine and won’t be voided in bankruptcy, even those judgements are not going to be fully voided. Not to mention, you file BK as a result of all this, you’ll need an excuse to your lawyer that the BK court and the other side’s lawyers will buy, and the other sides lawyers will get input, especially when a judgement is involved.
I’m currently in a bankruptcy, as part of the paperwork, it asks for all judgements and you have to provide a copy of the court order (they also do a search). All our court proceedings were over the phone via one large conference call, the case before ours the couple had a personal injury judgement against them, a lawyer representing the other side was present on the conference call, he opposed the filing as it did not provide enough protection for his client, as a result the BK lawyer rejected the filing and ordered them to redo the filing.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Frontier Guy said:


> In Colorado, an off app ride is $10k fine and won’t be voided in bankruptcy, even those judgements are not going to be fully voided. Not to mention, you file BK as a result of all this, you’ll need an excuse to your lawyer that the BK court and the other side’s lawyers will buy, and the other sides lawyers will get input, especially when a judgement is involved.
> I’m currently in a bankruptcy, as part of the paperwork, it asks for all judgements and you have to provide a copy of the court order (they also do a search). All our court proceedings were over the phone via one large conference call, the case before ours the couple had a personal injury judgement against them, a lawyer representing the other side was present on the conference call, he opposed the filing as it did not provide enough protection for his client, as a result the BK lawyer rejected the filing and ordered them to redo the filing.


That $10,000 is just for the ride with no accidents?


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## wallae (Jun 11, 2018)

_Tron_ said:


> If this idiotic thread gets headlined I'm gonna take a hostage.


Ok. Do you own any guys btw?


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Just had a story here about a driver that got into an accident on a cash trip.
> 
> Took his license away for three years and until he pays up hundreds of thousands of bills. Although filing bankruptcy could eliminate the bills, it's a DMV decision, not a court decision, if they will reinstitute the license as driving is a privilege and NOT a right.
> 
> ...


The odds of you getting caught in a situation by which you crash and get sued are the same as you winning the lottery, I've seen a ton (myself included when I ubered) of people who charged cash and were never even caught by the city much less crashed and got into a lawsuit, I had a friend who crashed with a cash ride, guess what the pax did? he ran away cause he knows he's complicit, now what were the odds of him crashing and seeing a huge lawsuit? Pax in general aren't rich enough to sue you and if they do, for what? you have nothing, they would waste money on the lawyer.

License suspension can be a problem, but hey, maybe you won the lottery, didn't you?

It's like me telling you: Hey don't swim at the beach, a shark might eat you!, while true, the odds are? yeah... astronomical.

Stop scaring people, these revenue cuts for both Uber and Lyft is just what the doctor ordered.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> Losing your license until you pay everything off?
> 
> In florida having an accident on a cash ride is legally driving without insuranace. You get into an accident without insurance you lose your license for 3+ years. The plus is however long it takes you to pay off your accident.
> 
> ...


I'm from Florida and we were (pretty sure still are) cash rides all day long at the airport or outside, you don't sound like a south Floridian to be saying such monumental scaredy cat stuff, so you lost your license for 3 years what? you are gonna kill yourself cause you can't work anymore? is that all you can do? drive? lol.

They would laugh at you for spitting this at the MIA or FLL lots.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Atavar said:


> They can put liens on your house, your vehicles, your bank and retirement accounts. With a lien it can take your tax refund if any. Depending on the court judgement some places can take your drivers license and CWP.


If you have something to lose, don't do it! If you don't as is the the fact with most Uber drivers, knock yourself out.


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## Atavar (Aug 11, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> If you have something to lose, don't do it! If you don't as is the the fact with most Uber drivers, knock yourself out.


Even Uber drivers have future earnings to lose.


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## Itshothere512 (6 mo ago)

Yea anyone that would ever report that they were working is insane. End ride, phone on airplane, chunk phone, and your word against pax, you were just giving them a ride home, you dont have a phone how could you be driving uber? Regular ALL State claim. Tell pax relax their covered under your full coverage that you must have for ride-share anyway. .


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## BDubs74 (8 mo ago)

Food for thought. I have full coverage insurance through Allstate. I contacted them and let them know I am now driving for Uber and asked for recommendations on what I should have for coverage. They upped my minimums but then also suggested that I have an “umbrella coverage”. This umbrella coverage raises my coverages to $1 mil single/$3 mil aggregate. This coverage extends to me anywhere. In my car, at my home, in someone else car. Because all of my insurance is through Allstate, by adding the umbrella coverage, it knocked 20% off of my regular car insurance. After all is said and done, I came out only owing an extra $11 a month on my insurance. And now I can take cash customers all day long.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> I'm from Florida and we were (pretty sure still are) cash rides all day long at the airport or outside, you don't sound like a south Floridian to be saying such monumental scaredy cat stuff, so you lost your license for 3 years what? you are gonna kill yourself cause you can't work anymore? is that all you can do? drive? lol.
> 
> They would laugh at you for spitting this at the MIA or FLL lots.


not it's not 3 years, it's 3 years and _you've paid the rest of it off._

And I need the ability to drive for my other job. I do sales for a roofing company and have to do estimates. Can't do that shit from home man. Heck I need a car to get from where I live to basically _anywhere to work_.

Losing my license means I can't work anymore. Well i'd have to sell my house and move to skid row basically because i'd never be able to afford a daily ride to get to the bus area to go to work.

I know they would laugh at me, but people are largely idiots. Too stupid to know any better.

And car accidents happen, you do this job long enough (you havn't yet) and you'll know they happen. I've 4 not at fault accidents.

4!

People are stupid, and drunk people are even dumber than normal . I've been in a head on collision on a one way street. God people are really really stupid.

You know what else is fun?

Florida is a "no fault" state meaning that your vehicles PIP needs to cover your passengers.

No insurance? guess who your passengers come after when they get hurt? It's not nessisarily the at fault driver it's your stupid ass.

I did an entire thread on what happened to someone because of cash rides.

I encourage you to take them, BUT I encourage you to get real insurance that covers you to take them. Heck get a for-hire permit (or whatever your county calls them, it varries) and make a real business of this. Then when uber is dead and gone you can continue to operate, if you only get half as many trips but you're charging 3 times as much your gettng 3 times as much revenue on half the expenses... A win win.

But encouraging every idiot on the street who is an uber driver to take cash rides without going through all the steps is just plain stupid, like monumentally stupid. One day there's going to be a high profile injury and the state is going to truly crack down on this, and a bunch of idiot drivers are going to get arrested and their cars impounded. Because the state is going to _have to_ make an example of them.

An example?

Someone gets a cash pickup by an uber ride near disney world. Then the child, Little Kimberly gets ejected out the windshield, run over, and paralyzed. The parents sue uber who turn around and say "the driver wasn't on a ping so your screwed". The driver will be dead as well and completely "judgement proof" and there's going ot be no one to sue to cover little Kimberly's medical bills. Then her family is going to make a non profit to make all of our live's ****ing miserable.

They are going to start stinging drivers for cash rides and when they don't catch anyone they are going to play the entrapment game.


The only reason the current laws arn't enforced is that it hasn't been a problem YET. When a true problem happens, which is only a matter of time, then it's going to get bad. Really bad.





BDubs74 said:


> Food for thought. I have full coverage insurance through Allstate. I contacted them and let them know I am now driving for Uber and asked for recommendations on what I should have for coverage. They upped my minimums but then also suggested that I have an “umbrella coverage”. This umbrella coverage raises my coverages to $1 mil single/$3 mil aggregate. This coverage extends to me anywhere. In my car, at my home, in someone else car. Because all of my insurance is through Allstate, by adding the umbrella coverage, it knocked 20% off of my regular car insurance. After all is said and done, I came out only owing an extra $11 a month on my insurance. And now I can take cash customers all day long.


And I garuntee you're on of the extreme minority that has. Good for you.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Itshothere512 said:


> Yea anyone that would ever report that they were working is insane. End ride, phone on airplane, chunk phone, and your word against pax, you were just giving them a ride home, you dont have a phone how could you be driving uber? Regular ALL State claim. Tell pax relax their covered under your full coverage that you must have for ride-share anyway. .


And you're expecting customers to lie for you, which is a big fricken mistake. They will sell you in in 3 seconds if they think it could get them a bigger settlement, (even if it doesnt)


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

roxanne77 said:


> no "adult" driving for .60 a mile has anything to lose
> get it how you live
> 
> far as I'm concerned once I've given you a "legal" ride via these highly should be illegal apps and risk my life as well as converse with you 40 minutes on the trip we BECOME FRIENDS and I'll gladly do scheduled repeat trips off app that I make more $, & pax saves some $ and doesn't have to worry about a different driver/vehicle everytime they need to make the trip cutting out the middleman
> ...


I get $2.40 a mile, it aint from uber.

And i'm not going to be stupid like that. Unlike you I have assets to lose. Doesn't mean I don't really apreciate the $1200 or so a month I pull out of driving people around.

I have too many assets to screw around taking cash rides. I know what I stand to lose, namely vacation properties that i've spent a great deal of time/money on.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> not it's not 3 years, it's 3 years and _you've paid the rest of it off._
> 
> And I need the ability to drive for my other job. I do sales for a roofing company and have to do estimates. Can't do that shit from home man. Heck I need a car to get from where I live to basically _anywhere to work_.
> 
> ...


Stop scaring people...

Guy above just gave you a clue on how to cover your ass if you want insurance, I personally do not think it's worth it and never had an accident, avoided city inspectors playing possum, and so did 20 more friends, of course, your odds change the more you do it as was the case of the guy I told you crashed with the pax, he was cash trips all day long.

I developed a method that covers me in case of accidents while doing a cash ride, I could tell ya how if you are still scared of the law coming down on you, I call it "temp insurance just in case", it requires you to be on trip, though.


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## BDubs74 (8 mo ago)

Screwber driver north said:


> Stop scaring people...
> 
> Guy above just gave you a clue on how to cover your ass if you want insurance, I personally do not think it's worth it and never had an accident, avoided city inspectors playing possum, and so did 20 more friends, of course, your odds change the more you do it as was the case of the guy I told you crashed with the pax, he was cash trips all day long.
> 
> I developed a method that covers me in case of accidents while doing a cash ride, I could tell ya how if you are still scared of the law coming down on you, I call it "temp insurance just in case", it requires you to be on trip, though.


I did it because:

1. I have an in ground swimming pool with a diving board at my home and regularly have folks over. (That’s where the umbrella comes in super handy. Somebody jumps in my pool and lands on the bottom and drowns, I’m covered with any lawsuits) 
2. I have a big house that someone could wager against me in a lawsuit.
3. I have military retirement and disability money to protect. 
4. There’s too many greedy MF’rs out there just looking for someone to sue. (One of the reasons that I have a dashcam that records in front and inside.)
5. It only costs me $11 extra dollars (I made that back on a single tip last night.)


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> And you're expecting customers to lie for you, which is a big fricken mistake.


"You can keep your mouth shut and my insurance will take good care of you. OR, you can rat me out and sue me and get .... nothing. Your choice."


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

UberBastid said:


> "You can keep your mouth shut and my insurance will take good care of you. OR, you can rat me out and sue me and get .... nothing. Your choice."


Exactly, it's commons sense.

What the hell happened in these forums? I remember 4 years ago people were happily taking uber's revenues with cash rides, I come back a few years later and I find they brain washed a ton of people to not do cash rides, from my state even, lol.

I need to write a walk through again for the general population.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> What the hell happened in these forums? I remember 4 years ago people were happily taking uber's revenues with cash rides,


What happened is they went from being self-sufficient self-employed pirates of the road, to tamed kitty's (can't use the word I really mean) from all the gov't handouts they got these last two years.
They've been neutered.

It WILL change back I predict. As more ants come on line and Uber cuts wages even more and prices go up ... they will find themselves with growling bellies. And, when hunger sets in more and more of them will come to the conclusion that being sued takes years, and they need to eat TODAY, and they'll take chances again.
This will happen at about the same time that gov't loses control of the people. Laws will be ignored, or not enforced (its ALREADY happening, isn't it?) and juries will not convict someone for trying to make an honest living (Hell, they won't convict NOW for making a DISHONEST living).
Anarchy runs more than one direction.

Anarchy = freedom


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

UberBastid said:


> What happened is they went from being self-sufficient self-employed pirates of the road, to tamed kitty's (can't use the word I really mean) from all the gov't handouts they got these last two years.
> They've been neutered.
> 
> It WILL change back I predict. As more ants come on line and Uber cuts wages even more and prices go up ... they will find themselves with growling bellies. And, when hunger sets in more and more of them will come to the conclusion that being sued takes years, and they need to eat TODAY, and they'll take chances again.
> ...


If there was a small mob forming outside my house for a unicorn hunt with shotguns and pitchforks I have absolutely no question how I would react and what the legal/civil consequences are. Namely I would wait for them to make entry into the house and start shooting. I have the ammo and armament and equipment to pick a fight with a swat team. Not that i would, but I have the equipment to.


That being said If I had a cash customer and got into an accident quite frankly I would be out of options. Quite frankly I'd probobly lose one or both of my vacation properties to settle the civil liability. My long term plans are investing in vacation rentals and these sort of assets are low hanging fruit in a 6 figure lawsuit.

I have death/desmemberment/disability coverage
I have shootout liabiltiy _not insurance_
My rental properties are insured out the wazoo.
I DO carry commercial auto insurance on my Sedan. I also have vehicle for hire permits for two counties. It also double covers me while i'm driving a rental taxi. That's on top of the rental taxis I use coming with their own insurance.

If I had to defend myself from Unicorn hunters my USCAA _not insurance_ would kick in and get me a lawyer, pay my bills, and pay for my legal defense. Probobly wouldn't be able to bail me out thou, florida doesn't bail murderers.

The legal ramifications of losign everything in a lawsuit can't be underestimated.

99.9% of driver's don't have the proper insurance. But 99.9% of drivers are judgement proof.


If you have the proper insurance, have at it. Good job stickin it to uber. I'ts not like i'm saying " BAA BAA! EVERYTHING MUST BE BA!!! BOOKED THROUGH UBER.. BA BA!!

Any way you can make a buck without giving 75c to uber is more than cool by me. Run your own business, get your own insurance. Do whatever...

It's just a really stupid idea to take cash customers on a standard consumer auto insurance policy.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> If there was a small mob forming outside my house for a unicorn hunt with shotguns and pitchforks I have absolutely no question how I would react and what the legal/civil consequences are. Namely I would wait for them to make entry into the house and start shooting. I have the ammo and armament and equipment to pick a fight with a swat team. Not that i would, but I have the equipment to.
> 
> 
> That being said If I had a cash customer and got into an accident quite frankly I would be out of options. Quite frankly I'd probobly lose one or both of my vacation properties to settle the civil liability. My long term plans are investing in vacation rentals and these sort of assets are low hanging fruit in a 6 figure lawsuit.
> ...


Back when I was doing Real Estate, I got balls out auto insurance. AND an umbrella policy, AND E&O insurance.
Every brokerage that I ever worked for required gold plated coverage AND a 'third party endorsement' naming the brokerage as 'also insured' in case I killed someone while doing my job.
Are those kind of policies still written?
Would it cover an Uber driver?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

The question is how much does it cost.

A realtor isn’t nessisarily doing anything high risk, maybe driving customers around?


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> No, you stay on the app and tell them it will be extra x $$$ cash upfront.


Next up... "I got deactivated, because a rider claimed I was asking them for a cash payment!"

"Did you do it?"

"Well, yeah."


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

Christinebitg said:


> Next up... "I got deactivated, because a rider claimed I was asking them for a cash payment!"
> 
> "Did you do it?"
> 
> "Well, yeah."


No, since the trip went through Uber there's a record and your on the meter, insurance covering. If you asked for more money in addition to the Uber fare, thats different, that's a cash tip or extra charge, which we are allowed to have, just required to report it to IRS.

Remember your an independent contractor, you can charge MORE or even less than Uber quotes (by giving or taking cash with pax). However your still required to go through the app for the commercial insurance unless you carry your own.

If you cut out Uber 100%, they could be inclined not to give you any more leads.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> No, since the trip went through Uber there's a record and your on the meter, insurance covering. If you asked for more money in addition to the Uber fare, thats different, that's a cash tip or extra charge, which we are allowed to have, just required to report it to IRS.
> 
> Remember your an independent contractor, you can charge MORE or even less than Uber quotes (by giving or taking cash with pax). However your still required to go through the app for the commercial insurance unless you carry your own.
> 
> If you cut out Uber 100%, they could be inclined not to give you any more leads.


What he said is actually true, you increase your chances of a report if you ask for more money on top of the app's quote, I had many friends deactivated because of it in the beginning of Uber, what you said is contractor on paper and Uber does something else, who knows, what you said can serve in this new price fix antitrust lawsuit going on.

All these gig companies who get too hungry end up screwed because eventually their cows figure out they can deal outside the app, be it:

AirBnB
Turo
Getmyboat
Uber
Lyft
Instacart

And more, eventually they just become tools to those who get tired of being screwed and decide to return the favor 100 fold, this is why profitability on such companies is at the whim of the cows, smart cows kill the company.


----------



## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

Screwber driver north said:


> What he said is actually true, you increase your chances of a report if you ask for more money on top of the app's quote, I had many friends deactivated because of it in the beginning of Uber, what you said is contractor on paper and Uber does something else, who knows, what you said can serve in this new price fix antitrust lawsuit going on.
> 
> All these gig companies who get too hungry end up screwed because eventually their cows figure out they can deal outside the app, be it:
> 
> ...


What I do is I take them, but as we talk I tell them that this is a x miles round trip for me and my costs of doing business is currently .70 cents a mile.

So I ask them what did Uber quote? Then I multiply that by 70% which is what I'll get, then the total miles x .70 and subtract the two, showing I will only make y amount for z amount of hours driving. Comes up to like $5 or $10 an hour.

If they ask why the costs are so high, repairs, cleaning, replacement vehicle, insurance, extra insurance for ridesharing, two phones and of course gas. Biden and all that.

If they ask why Uber hasn't raised prices or what they pay me, I say they do a .55 cents surcharge, but that only compensates for about 2.5 miles. I say they need to raise what they give us by .10 cents a mile. Why they haven't yet or tied compensation to the national average price for gas is beyond me, I think they think the price of gas will come down then have to readjust, when the alogrithm should be calculating that adjustment daily.


They usually take care of me on the app after that. 😁


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> What I do is I take them, but as we talk I tell them that this is a x miles round trip for me and my costs of doing business is currently .70 cents a mile.
> 
> So I ask them what did Uber quote? Then I multiply that by 70% which is what I'll get, then the total miles x .70 and subtract the two, showing I will only make y amount for z amount of hours driving. Comes up to like $5 or $10 an hour.
> 
> ...


I don't think they care, the only metrics Uber uses to change payments is: how many ants are rolling with their app on and today, ants be plenty, it's stranger that people can drive with such high gas prices, can't imagine anting with double the gas cost, cherry picking still probably makes some money.


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## ObeyTheNumbers (8 mo ago)

roxanne77 said:


> So Lyft thinks some human is actually going to drive 26 minutes to pickup for A HALF HOUR OF FREE LABOR.


Uber is sending me Reserve Requests that are 2-3 hours away for like $19 and $26 bucks. Every night before bed I have to decline about 3 or 4 of these.

Hello Uber? It's not even in my county!

I did take one, only because I was already going there anyway, how it knew I was going and started sending me these request runs beforehand, that same day, is a mystery. But now it won't stop, like I take this trip everyday at wee hours of the morning? Not.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

BDubs74 said:


> Food for thought. I have full coverage insurance through Allstate. I contacted them and let them know I am now driving for Uber and asked for recommendations on what I should have for coverage. They upped my minimums but then also suggested that I have an “umbrella coverage”. This umbrella coverage raises my coverages to $1 mil single/$3 mil aggregate. This coverage extends to me anywhere. In my car, at my home, in someone else car. Because all of my insurance is through Allstate, by adding the umbrella coverage, it knocked 20% off of my regular car insurance. After all is said and done, I came out only owing an extra $11 a month on my insurance. And now I can take cash customers all day long.


They are still only covering you for the rideshare endorsement, they are not insuring you to do off the books rides, Allstate does not sell commercial insurance, if they find out your are doing it, they will drop you in a heartbeat.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> That $10,000 is just for the ride with no accidents?


Under Colorado law, if you accept a street hail ride, and are not a licensed cabbie or black car service (private car service), accepting a street hail is a $10K fine and immediate termination for U/L


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Remember your an independent contractor, you can charge MORE or even less than Uber quotes (by giving or taking cash with pax).


Is it legal? Sure, it absolutely is.

But one or two complaints by pax and you'll get deactivated. With no recourse.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

roxanne77 said:


> So Lyft thinks some human is actually going to drive 26 minutes to pickup for A HALF HOUR OF FREE LABOR.
> 
> This is NOT LEGAL.


Is it a bad idea to do those? Absolutely, it is.

But it's not against the law for them to offer those trips to you.

Gig work is not covered by minimum wage laws.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

roxanne77 said:


> Labor CAN'T "CHOOSE" or AGREE to work for FREE or ILLEGAL WAGES
> The 13th Amendment Of The Constitution supersedes uber, lyfts, terms of service geez


Are you freaking kidding me? Ten paragraphs to promote a BS claim that somehow the US Constitution prohibits you from VOLUNTARILY agreeing to do a pickup for a rideshare company??


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Christinebitg said:


> Are you freaking kidding me? Ten paragraphs to promote a BS claim that somehow the US Constitution prohibits you from VOLUNTARILY agreeing to do a pickup for a rideshare company??


Voluntarily entering a sweatshop or if a child voluntarily works, doesn't make both sweatshop and child labor legal.

Slavery is a concept that needs updating to today's standard practices of neo-slavery, slavery has evolved in practice by those who control the money while remaining behind in concept, new definitions allow the constitution to trump abusive designs, because let's face it, uber uses abusive designs to get away with what it does, it's too bad that our lawmakers are mostly old or utterly ignorant when it comes to design/tech, when more gen X get into lawmaking, you will see all those loopholes patched, personally, I cannot wait for the day they order these companies to disclose their source code to authorities, that's when you truly peek into their grand scheme.


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## Drivincrazy (Feb 14, 2016)

How about the two unpaid minutes of wait time upon arrival? I estimate that half my LV rides use up the two minutes. If the Feds came down on Uber, that would be about 5,000 minutes I'd be owed. Uber is getting away with MASSIVE enslavement.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

ObeyTheNumbers said:


> Remember your an independent contractor, you can charge MORE or even less than Uber quotes (by giving or taking cash with pax). However your still required to go through the app for the commercial insurance unless you carry your own.


The last two ride addendums for Uber actually state that drivers can charge less than the quoted fare, but not more.



Christinebitg said:


> Is it legal? Sure, it absolutely is.
> 
> But one or two complaints by pax and you'll get deactivated. With no recourse.


How is it legal, without commercial insurance and a PUC number (depending on state) to do street hails or off-app rides


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

roxanne77 said:


> how is it legal to speed?
> bet you all do it.
> everyone wanna pick & choose the laws they follow, but logically some crimes are worse than others.
> 
> ...


Well Troll, 
Yeah it took a few to realize you were back back.
Speeding might cost me $200, picking up an illegal street hail, like you've admitted to doing will cost me a $10,000 fine to the state and permanent deactivation from Uber and Lyft, not to mention, if I'm in an accident with the street hail, there's a good chance I could lose everything. Now, I'm sure, to a drug addict like you, living in mommies basement, selling fake products on the web, none of this matters. But, to normal people, it does matter.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

roxanne77 said:


> FRAUD = FORCE under the


You have WAY too much free time on your hands. You spent 14 paragraphs trying to convince me that fraud is the same thing as force.

Sorry, fraud has a different definition. Fraud is when you mislead a person toget them to do something voluntarily.

Google says fraud is "wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain."

I suggest you go out and get a real job.


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## Grand Lake (Feb 27, 2018)

BDubs74 said:


> Because all of my insurance is through Allstate, by adding the umbrella coverage, it knocked 20% off of my regular car insurance. After all is said and done, I came out only owing an extra $11 a month on my insurance. And now I can take cash customers all day long.


You can't get around paying for commercial driving coverage by buying an umbrella policy. Cash rides are still going to be excluded. 

It's good to have the umbrella if you're a person who has assets, but it's not the $11/month cure-all you seem to think it is.


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## BDubs74 (8 mo ago)

Frontier Guy said:


> They are still only covering you for the rideshare endorsement, they are not insuring you to do off the books rides, Allstate does not sell commercial insurance, if they find out your are doing it, they will drop you in a heartbeat.


You seem to have missed the part where I called Allstate and told them exactly what I am doing. The umbrella policy is seperate and above the rideshare endorsement. The rideshare endorsement simply increases my normal insurance payouts. Anything above that, the umbrella policy kicks in. You’re making “doing off the books rides” into something it’s not.


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## BDubs74 (8 mo ago)

Grand Lake said:


> You can't get around paying for commercial driving coverage by buying an umbrella policy. Cash rides are still going to be excluded.
> 
> It's good to have the umbrella if you're a person who has assets, but it's not the $11/month cure-all you seem to think it is.


why do you seem to think that “cash rides” are some mythical creature that is so taboo? What makes it so scary to insurance companies. I can hire some drunk whino off the street to come clean my gutters and do some roofing repair and my umbrella insurance covers me if his drunk ass falls off of my roof and he tries to sue me. What makes you think that an accident involving a passenger gets some type of extra level of concern?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

BDubs74 said:


> why do you seem to think that “cash rides” are some mythical creature that is so taboo? What makes it so scary to insurance companies. I can hire some drunk whino off the street to come clean my gutters and do some roofing repair and my umbrella insurance covers me if his drunk ass falls off of my roof and he tries to sue me. What makes you think that an accident involving a passenger gets some type of extra level of concern?


6 injured passengers plus 3 more injured in the car you run into, and each of them is suing for $100,000+ in injuries.

And your policy has a coverage limit of $50,000


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## BDubs74 (8 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> 6 injured passengers plus 3 more injured in the car you run into, and each of them is suing for $100,000+ in injuries.
> 
> And your policy has a coverage limit of $50,000


My current auto insurance has a coverage limit of $250,000 each person/$500,000 each occurrence. My umbrella policy, which kicks in AFTER the automobile policy is exhausted, raises that “bodily injury and property damage limit to $1,000,000/$2,000,000.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

BDubs74 said:


> I can hire some drunk whino off the street to come clean my gutters and do some roofing repair and my umbrella insurance covers me if his drunk ass falls off of my roof and he tries to sue me. What makes you think that an accident involving a passenger gets some type of extra level of concern?


What makes it different is the likelihood of it happening.

How often do people hire someone off the street to clean their gutters?

Contrast that with how often people drive for U/L.


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## Grand Lake (Feb 27, 2018)

BDubs74 said:


> why do you seem to think that “cash rides” are some mythical creature that is so taboo? What makes it so scary to insurance companies. I can hire some drunk whino off the street to come clean my gutters and do some roofing repair and my umbrella insurance covers me if his drunk ass falls off of my roof and he tries to sue me. What makes you think that an accident involving a passenger gets some type of extra level of concern?


Using your car to drive passengers for money is excluded from coverage in a personal auto policy. You need to pay for a commercial auto policy to cover that risk. A personal liability umbrella policy does not (with a few oddball exceptions not relevant to this discussion) provide coverage for risks excluded by the underlying auto/home/renters policies; it just gives you higher limits of coverage -- that's why umbrella policies don't cost a lot. 

In your hypothetical, your homeowners policy provides you with personal liability coverage for the "wino's" lawsuit; if he wins a judgment that exceeds the homeowners policy liability limit, the umbrella coverage would kick in. The umbrella policy doesn't create coverage for a risk that was not covered by the homeowners policy.

Talk to your agent if you don't believe me. And if you're doing rides for cash, stop - it's just a stupid risk to take for any non-desperate person.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Grand Lake said:


> Using your car to drive passengers for money is excluded from coverage in a personal auto policy. You need to pay for a commercial auto policy to cover that risk. A personal liability umbrella policy does not (with a few oddball exceptions not relevant to this discussion) provide coverage for risks excluded by the underlying auto/home/renters policies; it just gives you higher limits of coverage -- that's why umbrella policies don't cost a lot.
> 
> In your hypothetical, your homeowners policy provides you with personal liability coverage for the "wino's" lawsuit; if he wins a judgment that exceeds the homeowners policy liability limit, the umbrella coverage would kick in. The umbrella policy doesn't create coverage for a risk that was not covered by the homeowners policy.
> 
> Talk to your agent if you don't believe me. And if you're doing rides for cash, stop - it's just a stupid risk to take for any non-desperate person.


There are no risks involved in cash rides, you can even use Uber as insurance for it. 🤣 

There are 2 types of cash ride, the one originating from request and the one originating off the app.

The amount of rides you make off the app becomes your odds of getting into an accident uninsured or getting caught by the fuzz, those odds are insanely low, if you think it's possible I welcome you to change that negativism into positivism and try your luck with the lottery, who knows the odds are the same and you may win 

A cash ride originating from Uber, can be held on until you reach destination, if something happens during the trip, you simply start the app again and voila! you are now covered by Uber, the pax can sue to kingdom come.

How can that be accomplished? Well, the day I feel like it, I will write a walkthrough.

Trust me, cash rides are where you'll regain your faith in Ubering.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

BDubs74 said:


> You seem to have missed the part where I called Allstate and told them exactly what I am doing. The umbrella policy is seperate and above the rideshare endorsement. The rideshare endorsement simply increases my normal insurance payouts. Anything above that, the umbrella policy kicks in. You’re making “doing off the books rides” into something it’s not.


No, No, I didn't miss anything. Your rideshare endorsement covers you while you are online with Uber or Lyft, PERIOD, nothing more. Your umbrella policy protects you from claims that exceed your regular insurance coverage, nothing more. Call your Allstate agent, never mind, I called mine, and asked him (36 yrs in the insurance industry including as a commercial policy writer for Acuity) if the rideshare endorsement or the umbrella policy will protect you while giving for hire rides off the app, and the overwhelming answer is NO!!. If you are operating a for hire, which you would be, service, off the app, your insurance will not cover you.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Screwber driver north said:


> There are no risks involved in cash rides, you can even use Uber as insurance for it. 🤣
> 
> There are 2 types of cash ride, the one originating from request and the one originating off the app.
> 
> ...


I guess those odds depends on your municipality and yes, your luck, there have been a couple of posts in the Vegas section recently of investigators targeting rideshare drivers for street hails, which are illegal. In Denver, they do it once or twice a year, either at the airport or downtown. Hopefully, your luck doesn't run out, but if it does, what will your response be? In Denver, it's a $10,000 fine and a permanent deactivation from U/L, I would imagine in Vegas it would be similar.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Frontier Guy said:


> I guess those odds depends on your municipality and yes, your luck, there have been a couple of posts in the Vegas section recently of investigators targeting rideshare drivers for street hails, which are illegal. In Denver, they do it once or twice a year, either at the airport or downtown. Hopefully, your luck doesn't run out, but if it does, what will your response be? In Denver, it's a $10,000 fine and a permanent deactivation from U/L, I would imagine in Vegas it would be similar.


Well, it's relative to how much your governor was paid by Uber, there are tell signs for agents and stuff, you need to learn to read people, for example, you wouldn't take a guy who street hails you in the middle of a street and asks if you are uber and if you can uber him for cash, you need a certain amount of malice and street to do cash trips.


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## Nique0201 (Apr 29, 2017)

We're allowed per Uber to charge less.... Get a rider tell them to get on app. Request ride.... "Tip" agreed amount in cash, and at end of ride refund rider foress since you're a IC... Now you've covered yourself with app protection and made your money.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> those odds are insanely low


That's the purpose of insurance. It's for events that are low probability and high consequence.

"Do you feel lucky? Well, do you?"


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Nique0201 said:


> We're allowed per Uber to charge less.... Get a rider tell them to get on app. Request ride.... "Tip" agreed amount in cash, and at end of ride refund rider foress since you're a IC... Now you've covered yourself with app protection and made your money.


Yeah, a ton can be done but Uber is all talk, we didn't even have the option to change it to lower or adjust the payment by request, so I wish them luck in court.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Screwber driver north said:


> Well, it's relative to how much your governor was paid by Uber, there are tell signs for agents and stuff, you need to learn to read people, for example, you wouldn't take a guy who street hails you in the middle of a street and asks if you are uber and if you can uber him for cash, you need a certain amount of malice and street to do cash trips.


Um, that's how a street hail works, actually the way they do it is they either walk up to you as you drop off a rider and ask if you are an uber driver and if you can give them a ride for cash, or they approach you at a red light, and trust me, they aren't wearing a suit/tie like they came from a meeting. The last sting they did in Denver was a couple in their 50's with luggage curbside at the airport asking drivers who were dropping off pax if they could get a ride. I know someone took the bait, but everyone else declined and drove off.

Menace, malice and hate run deep in my heart, and I still don't do cash trips unless I know the person.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Frontier Guy said:


> Um, that's how a street hail works, actually the way they do it is they either walk up to you as you drop off a rider and ask if you are an uber driver and if you can give them a ride for cash, or they approach you at a red light, and trust me, they aren't wearing a suit/tie like they came from a meeting. The last sting they did in Denver was a couple in their 50's with luggage curbside at the airport asking drivers who were dropping off pax if they could get a ride. I know someone took the bait, but everyone else declined and drove off.
> 
> Menace, malice and hate run deep in my heart, and I still don't do cash trips unless I know the person.


I never done those, those are higher odds at getting caught by agents, I did airports who were waiting for Uber/Lyft, trips where drivers wouldn't arrive, I would scoop those guys and I would ask people (during trip pick up or start) how much they paid, then offer to do it for less after cancelling.

Street hails, too much of a risk in my book, unless I am near a club or something that doesn't scream inspector/cop set up.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> The odds of you getting caught in a situation by which you crash and get sued are the same as you winning the lottery, I've seen a ton (myself included when I ubered) of people who charged cash and were never even caught by the city much less crashed and got into a lawsuit, I had a friend who crashed with a cash ride, guess what the pax did? he ran away cause he knows he's complicit, now what were the odds of him crashing and seeing a huge lawsuit? Pax in general aren't rich enough to sue you and if they do, for what? you have nothing, they would waste money on the lawyer.
> 
> License suspension can be a problem, but hey, maybe you won the lottery, didn't you?
> 
> ...


If you really feel this way then why do you purchase any form of insurance for yourself? Just buy no health insurance what so ever and pay the extra income tax. Never buy home or auto insurance either, I mean what are the odds you will ever need it? 

Hell let's just roll the dice and hope for the best is not a good strategy for life. I can only hope you are young and ignorant, if you are 40 I pray for you.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> If you really feel this way then why do you purchase any form of insurance for yourself? Just buy no health insurance what so ever and pay the extra income tax. Never buy home or auto insurance either, I mean what are the odds you will ever need it?
> 
> Hell let's just roll the dice and hope for the best is not a good strategy for life. I can only hope you are young and ignorant, if you are 40 I pray for you.


Because not having insurance is not the same as doing cash rides, whereas I have 1 in 100 chance in getting caught during a cash ride, I'm' exposed the entire time while driving without insurance, I don't have health insurance, lol, no life insurance, no home insurance (I rent) insurances are the biggest scam in this country, ask the people who work there.

You pretty much guessed I don't do insurances while trying to make a sarcastic point, rofl.

My life is peachy btw, I will let you know when I win the lottery and lack of insurance somehow screws me over.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

BDubs74 said:


> You seem to have missed the part where* I called Allstate and told them exactly what I am doing.* The umbrella policy is seperate and above the rideshare endorsement. The rideshare endorsement simply increases my normal insurance payouts. Anything above that, the umbrella policy kicks in. You’re making “doing off the books rides” into something it’s not.


Every time I come here I am stunned at the lack of intelligence and common sense I see.

You literally said in your earlier post "_and let them know I am now driving for Uber_". Know what you didn't tell them? That you are also doing cash rides on the side off the Uber platform.

I have an umbrella policy along with my rideshare endorsement. I can assure you your umbrella policy does not cover a cash ride. I know because I checked on all of this with my agent. Did you? Did you actually check with All State to make sure you have adequate coverage should you take a rider for a fee off the platform and the rider and perhaps the person you hit are injured or even killed?

Obviously not. You never told All State that you are putting passengers in your car for a fee. That my friend is called commercial insurance as has been explained here numerous times.

You have a house with a pool and a military pension. Good for you. Why on Earth are you putting all of that at risk by being ignorant about the actual coverage you carry?


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Because not having insurance is not the same as doing cash rides, whereas I have 1 in 100 chance in getting caught during a cash ride, I'm' exposed the entire time while driving without insurance, I don't have health insurance, lol, no life insurance, no home insurance (I rent) insurances are the biggest scam in this country, ask the people who work there.
> 
> You pretty much guessed I don't do insurances while trying to make a sarcastic point, rofl.
> 
> My life is peachy btw, I will let you know when I win the lottery and lack of insurance somehow screws me over.


Yeah OK. More evidence with regard to my first paragraph above.

_"Because not having insurance is not the same as doing cash rides",_

Um yeah it is. Now as you said your exposure is lower as the cash rides represent a small percent of your total time driving. But for those miles you are 100% uninsured.

Is insurance a scam? Well hard to say. Do they make far more than they pay out? Do we pay out for years and years and never need it? Of course.. But the ramifications can be life destroying for the person who is uninsured.

You can't even bother to get rental insurance insurance? It's like $150/year. Have you ever stopped and considered how much it would cost to replace everything you own should you have a fire? For crying out loud replacing your freaking underwear drawer contents is $100, and that's before we get to your tank tops, cutoffs and every other stich of clothing, shoes, jackets etc. Then we get to all of your furniture, all your electronics, food in your pantry. If you really stopped and added up the cost to replace of every single thing you own you would understand what a stupid risk you are taking to save $12/month.

But you are probably like the guy who routinely drives his motorcycle drunk at high speeds. "Hey it ain't killed me yet so I'm good" as I said is a really stupid way to go through life.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Um yeah it is. Now as you said your exposure is lower as the cash rides represent a small percent of your total time driving. But for those miles you are 100% uninsured.


You are using context, your question referred to odds, equating not having insurance to doing cash rides, the odds of you getting caught without insurance are astronomically higher than doing cash rides, therefore, not the same in the context you spoke.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> s insurance a scam? Well hard to say. Do they make far more than they pay out? Do we pay out for years and years and never need it? Of course.. But the ramifications can be life destroying for the person who is uninsured.


It's a scam no different than fiat or crypto, the slow take time to understand it, those who work on it see it within a year, specially in the higher tiers.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> ou can't even bother to get rental insurance insurance? It's like $150/year. Have you ever stopped and considered how much it would cost to replace everything you own should you have a fire? For crying out loud replacing your freaking underwear drawer contents is $100, and that's before we get to your tank tops, cutoffs and every other stich of clothing, shoes, jackets etc. Then we get to all of your furniture, all your electronics, food in your pantry. If you really stopped and added up the cost to replace of every single thing you own you would understand what a stupid risk you are taking to save $12/month.


Again, I don't play into scams unless the law will be on my tail 24/7 if I don't play along.

You think like an old man, it's all about odds and measuring such odds, let me sell you volcano insurance.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> But you are probably like the guy who routinely drives his motorcycle drunk at high speeds. "Hey it ain't killed me yet so I'm good" as I said is a really stupid way to go through life.


Life is a casino, only professional gamblers make the most of it.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> You are using context, your question referred to odds, equating not having insurance to doing cash rides, the odds of you getting caught without insurance are astronomically higher than doing cash rides, therefore, not the same in the context you spoke.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As I said the lack of intelligence on this board is nothing short of astonishing. I'm not talking about odds, I'm talking about what you stand to lose. I was very clear in my reply that I agree with you, the odds of something happening are very low. However that does not change the fact that you're facing financial ruin by taking a $30 cash ride should something happen.

I'm gonna assume by your responses that you're very young and probably don't have a whole lot of assets. I'm also going to assume you're not gonna have the money to replace everything you own should you have a fire at home, or to pay out a huge settlement should your passenger get hurt while driving uninsured. With no insurance to pay out that huge settlement you'll be forced to file for bankruptcy, that would be the only way for you to get out of those obligations. Good luck renting an apartment with a bankruptcy on your record.

Life is only a casino for those who take stupid ass risks. The rest of us are smarter than that. You would be in the 1st category.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> As I said the lack of intelligence on this board is nothing short of astonishing. I'm not talking about odds, I'm talking about what you stand to lose. I was very clear in my reply that I agree with you, the odds of something happening are very low. However that does not change the fact that you're facing financial ruin by taking a $30 cash ride should something happen.
> 
> I'm gonna assume by your responses that you're very young and probably don't have a whole lot of assets. I'm also going to assume you're not gonna have the money to replace everything you own should you have a fire at home, or to pay out a huge settlement should your passenger get hurt while driving uninsured. With no insurance to pay out that huge settlement you'll be forced to file for bankruptcy, that would be the only way for you to get out of those obligations. Good luck renting an apartment with a bankruptcy on your record.
> 
> Life is only a casino for those who take stupid ass risks. The rest of us are smarter than that. You would be in the 1st category.


The only one lacking intelligence here is you, that or you are old and senile.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> If you really feel this way then why do you purchase any form of insurance for yourself? Just buy no health insurance what so ever and pay the extra income tax. Never buy home or auto insurance either, I mean what are the odds you will ever need it?


Dissecting what you said in direct correlation to:



Screwber driver north said:


> The odds of you getting caught in a situation by which you crash and get sued are the same as you winning the lottery, I've seen a ton (myself included when I ubered) of people who charged cash and were never even caught by the city much less crashed and got into a lawsuit, I had a friend who crashed with a cash ride, guess what the pax did? he ran away cause he knows he's complicit, now what were the odds of him crashing and seeing a huge lawsuit? Pax in general aren't rich enough to sue you and if they do, for what? you have nothing, they would waste money on the lawyer.
> 
> License suspension can be a problem, but hey, maybe you won the lottery, didn't you?
> 
> ...


I speak of odds in my entire reply, you then reply to it remarking "why do I purchase insurance when the odds are you'll never need it", I respond that the odds of me getting a ticket for not having insurance are higher than getting caught without insurance in a cash ride.

You come to insult people yet your intelligence is insulting.

I have assets, probably a ton more than you at this point, I don't do Uber anymore but if I were to do it again for pure shits and giggles I would do cash rides still, I like gambling, what can I say, to me it is all about the difficulty of the journey.

You are probably wondering how someone who claims to have more assets than you has no insurances, simple, I do my books differently than you and have thus far not encountered any problems, when I get to problems, I will figure out if it's worth throwing money at it and how much.

Lol, the nerve of some people...


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> Because not having insurance is not the same as doing cash rides, whereas I have 1 in 100 chance in getting caught during a cash ride, I'm' exposed the entire time while driving without insurance, I don't have health insurance, lol, no life insurance, no home insurance (I rent) insurances are the biggest scam in this country, ask the people who work there.


Heres the basic problem with that approach.

If you're doing cash rides, you are 100% exposed *for the period of time when you have a cash payer in your car.* 
Reducing the amount of time you're exposed to that doesn't change the extent of your exposure for the miles you're doing it.

That's like working on the roof of your house, but only getting up there every other month, instead of on every weekend.

But it's actually worse than that, because when you're driving, you're at the mercy of all the other drivers on the road. One screwup on someone else's part, and you're toast.

You want to ask someone who works in insurance? That's me. You got a question for me?? I spent the last nine years of my full time career working in the insurance industry. I can answer questions you never even thought of asking. (Like for instance, how much property damage coverage a refinery needs to carry, in case there's a fire in one of their operating units.)

And yes, I do carry renter's insurance. And an umbrella policy too.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Christinebitg said:


> Heres the basic problem with that approach.
> 
> If you're doing cash rides, you are 100% exposed *for the period of time when you have a cash payer in your car.*
> Reducing the amount of time you're exposed to that doesn't change the extent of your exposure for the miles you're doing it.
> ...


Be it as it may, 1 hour a day in cash rides < than not having insurance for 24 hours of which 5 hours on the road can attract a cop to screw you if they decide to run your tag, hell the shit they have today is automatic even, to have a problem with the cash ride, you would have to be lucky enough to find a cop or inspector as the rider or have a fatal accident, you tell me which is more probable.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> 1 hour a day in cash rides < than not having insurance for 24 hours


Nope, you're completely off base on this issue.

If something is dangerous, it's dangerous to the full extent of it, for the period of time you're doing it.

If we used your logic, you could say it's okay to drive drunk, as long as you only do it once every couple of months.

Or perhaps you'd rather look at it this way: Is it okay to hang around in a ghetto neighborhood at midnight on a Friday night, with $100 bills hanging out of your pockets? I mean, as long as you only do it a couple of times a year?


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Christinebitg said:


> Nope, you're completely off base on this issue.
> 
> If something is dangerous, it's dangerous to the full extent of it, for the period of time you're doing it.
> 
> If we used your logic, you could say it's okay to drive drunk, as long as you only do it once every couple of months.


It's not okay but it's less odds of getting caught than doing it every day, that is not my logic, it's plain mathematical logical odds or do you disagree with math?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> It's not okay but it's less odds of getting caught than doing it every day, that is not my logic, it's plain mathematical logical odds or do you disagree with math?


You're also not taking Murphy's law into consideration.

If something is going to happen it's going to happen during your off app trip.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> You're also not taking Murphy's law into consideration.
> 
> If something is going to happen it's going to happen during your off app trip.


Jeez, why don't you throw religion at me while you are at it, Murphy's laws are like believing in God, you cannot prove it nor disprove it.


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> Jeez, why don't you throw religion at me while you are at it, Murphy's laws are like believing in God, you cannot prove it nor disprove it.


If Jesus was doing this job, he would be a taxi driver so he could give the needy rides and not put anyone at risk.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> It's not okay but it's less odds of getting caught than doing it every day, that is not my logic, it's plain mathematical logical odds or do you disagree with math?


Let's start with your line "I like to gamble, what can I say?". You act as if this is a solid approach for everybody. It's not, this is a gamble most intelligent people are simply not willing to make. If you have considerable assets that makes your approach even dumber.

What a strange argument you keep trying to hammer home. It's based entirely on odds. What makes this such a strange conversation is I clearly said that I agree with you, the odds strongly suggest you will be fine with your approach. I never once argued against the point you continue to try to cram down our throats

I (and others) are simply pointing out the risks you take by being a cheap bastard with regard to carrying adequate insurance, regardless of how long the odds are that something will happen. I would think you would have gotten that by now, obviously I was mistaken.

Your approach is to save money ($12 a month LOL) on insurance, then if something happens you'll deal with it then. As I explained if the single wide you are renting burned down it would cost a whole lot more money than you saved to replace everything you own. If you did a cash ride and the rider and the person you hit are injured just how will your mountain of assets look after they sue you, are injured and require huge medical expenses or God forbid disabled and unable to work? Incredibly long odds? Of course. But why on Earth would anyone with any intelligence ever take that risk to save a few bucks? That's just being stupid.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> Let's start with your line "I like to gamble, what can I say?". You act as if this is a solid approach for everybody. It's not, this is a gamble most intelligent people are simply not willing to make. If you have considerable assets that makes your approach even dumber.


Please, do not put "intelligent people" in your grouping.

A gambler does not randomly take risks, a gambler knows when to take risks that have high chances of resulting in profit, being a gambling addict doesn't make you a true gambler, I should have been more specific, perhaps professional gambler?

We could keep arguing who is dumber thus far with me having saved a ton of money in insurance and not suffered any catastrophic losses or you who is still paying for volcano insurance.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> (and others) are simply pointing out the risks you take by being a cheap bastard with regard to carrying adequate insurance, regardless of how long the odds are that something will happen. I would think you would have gotten that by now, obviously I was mistaken.


Rich people are usually cheap, didn't you know that? I probably aim to be rich at some point in time.

If I need the insurance or if the cost is well worth covering the odds, Trust me, I will use it.

Example: I have commercial insurance in 4 trucks, I NEED the insurance or I can't work for a certain company, has that stopped me from taking some risks in the things I do? as in not paying more for insurance (some little trick I have) and assessing the risks? Hell no, it's all been frivolously calculated, odds, you need to learn about statistics, environment, exit strategies, that's what defines your "luck" in the worst case scenario.

You think glass half empty I think it's half full, it's a matter of thinking.



Darrell Green Fan said:


> Your approach is to save money ($12 a month LOL) on insurance, then if something happens you'll deal with it then. As I explained if the single wide you are renting burned down it would cost a whole lot more money than you saved to replace everything you own. If you did a cash ride and the rider and the person you hit are injured just how will your mountain of assets look after they sue you, are injured and require huge medical expenses or God forbid disabled and unable to work? Incredibly long odds? Of course. But why on Earth would anyone with any intelligence ever take that risk to save a few bucks? That's just being stupid.


But I don't need volcano insurance... I don't care if it's a dollar.

Our difference is you live in the unknown (thus your obsession with insurance) while I educate myself and even if guessing, I make educated guesses backed by statistics, insurances never lose, you end up paying more than what you get from them on the long run and even if you somehow manage to screw them with a high payment due to a once in a lifetime occurrence, the raise your premiums and eventually collect their money back, I had an accident in which my car took 2.8k in repairs paid by the car insurance, in 4 years of paying 140 bucks a month for it, I'll let you do the math on that, smart guy.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Comparing the risk of taking cash rides vs. not having rideshare insurance is ridiculous from the start. You should NOT take cash rides and you SHOULD have rideshare insurance, thus mitigating BOTH risks, which agreeably both situations have different levels of risk. Why take EITHER risk?

Doing things right costs money, but it's worth it if the shit hits the fan you are covered.

In 5 years of rideshare I've had 3 fender benders. One, kinda my fault (I slid on ice and bumped into someone). One, another car hit me running a red light. And one, I clipped a curb corner in a snowstorm because the snow made it impossible to see where exactly to turn. Good insurance is worth its weight in gold.

Before replying, I'm NOT going to debate it. So save your energy. Just wanted to share my perspective.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> It's not okay but it's less odds of getting caught than doing it every day, that is not my logic, it's plain mathematical logical odds or do you disagree with math?


I certainly disagree with the conclusion that you've drawn, based on your "math."


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Stevie The magic Unicorn said:


> The question is how much does it cost.
> 
> A realtor isn’t nessisarily doing anything high risk, maybe driving customers around?


Well, not high risk for driving.
But I carried $5 mil in Errors and Omissions Insurance, and $1 mil for personal liability in the car. 
Cost? I don't remember because it wasn't optional. It didn't matter.
Quickest way to find the contents of your desk packed in a cardboard box waiting for you to come in and pick it up was to let either of those insurance policies lapse.

PS: I never even came close to an E&O claim. Never was in an auto accident while 'on duty.'


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Christinebitg said:


> I certainly disagree with the conclusion that you've drawn, based on your "math."


It's not "my math", it's math, something everyone should be able to do past high school.

Sorry if it's too complex for most of you to understand.


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## 234267 (6 mo ago)

Wow. Lots of hostile people on this board.

I wouldn’t do cash rides tottal strangers. Nobody knows where you are unless you have another party you tell. You never know who these strangers are. No thanks.

Now if you have a regular LYFT or UBER passenger you get to know and make an informal arrangement…different kettle of fish.


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Please, do not put "intelligent people" in your grouping.
> 
> A gambler does not randomly take risks, a gambler knows when to take risks that have high chances of resulting in profit, being a gambling addict doesn't make you a true gambler, I should have been more specific, perhaps professional gambler?
> 
> ...


The more you post the more you confirm my comments about the level of intelligence on this board. This method works fine. For you. For now. That may not always be the case and if you lose you can lose everything. Yeah "rich people" are not uninsured, they are smart enough not to take that chance. 

Most of us are simply not comfortable taking on the level of risk you are fine with. There is nothing stupid about that what so ever. Again I have no idea why this is so hard for you to understand, just goes back to my earlier point.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Darrell Green Fan said:


> The more you post the more you confirm my comments about the level of intelligence on this board. This method works fine. For you. For now. That may not always be the case and if you lose you can lose everything. Yeah "rich people" are not uninsured, they are smart enough not to take that chance.
> 
> Most of us are simply not comfortable taking on the level of risk you are fine with. There is nothing stupid about that what so ever. Again I have no idea why this is so hard for you to understand, just goes back to my earlier point.


Look, if you don't wanna do it, fine, no money for you.

You come along with some others and create this massive boogieman I have proven not to exist also backed by people who do cash rides, I have done a crapload of cash rides in my time Ubering, and so have a ton of friends, none have been caught, luck? no, if you look at it statistically 10 people not being caught in years calls for what I said, your odds of being ****ed by a cash ride, are as much as you winning the lotto.

Is that so hard for you to understand? At the end of the day, don't do the rides, let people who need the money make the money they need, again, show me statistics that prove you will get caught and your life will be screwed or please stop replying, hell, invent case scenarios.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> Look, if you don't wanna do it, fine, no money for you.
> 
> You come along with some others and create this massive boogieman I have proven not to exist also backed by people who do cash rides, I have done a crapload of cash rides in my time Ubering, and so have a ton of friends, none have been caught, luck? no, if you look at it statistically 10 people not being caught in years calls for what I said, your odds of being ****ed by a cash ride, are as much as you winning the lotto.
> 
> Is that so hard for you to understand? At the end of the day, don't do the rides, let people who need the money make the money they need, again, show me statistics that prove you will get caught and your life will be screwed or please stop replying, hell, invent case scenarios.


So let me get this straight... if 10 people do something and don't get caught that means it's safe? Just checking. I see hundreds of people every week going 85+mph and not getting caught. I guess that's safe too? Until it's not! Your argument is ridiculous. 

Bottom line: If YOU are comfortable with the risk YOU are taking that's all that matters. But I don't think it's wise to assume that everyone will have good luck like you do. 

It's a risk such that the odds of it happening are very low, but the consequences if it does happen can be huge. You make your own decision, I've made mine.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Ted Fink said:


> So let me get this straight... if 10 people do something and don't get caught that means it's safe? Just checking. I see hundreds of people every week going 85+mph and not getting caught. I guess that's safe too? Until it's not! Your argument is ridiculous.
> 
> Bottom line: If YOU are comfortable with the risk YOU are taking that's all that matters. But I don't think it's wise to assume that everyone will have good luck like you do.
> 
> It's a risk such that the odds of it happening are very low, but the consequences if it does happen can be huge. You make your own decision, I've made mine.


Statistically speaking in my small sample, it is, specially as those cash rides were done at the time Uber started a massive manhunt to catch such people, telling the gov to get the inspectors to go undercover to catch cash trips, it started here and eventually moved all over, next thing you knew, the news were full of sting operations in NY, Cali, Chicago, etc.

Thanks for reinforcing my point with the 85 mph example, your odds are even higher to get caught by speeding due to the volume of cops who can catch you doing it in plain sight.

It's not my luck, its called odds, if odds weren't a thing, everyone would be rich by playing the lotto once or twice.

Risk vs odds, that's all you kids need to understand, don't wanna do it? fine but don't bullshit the rest of the forum with the boogieman.


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## Ted Fink (Mar 19, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> don't bullshit the rest of the forum with the boogieman.


so is it false when i said that the chance of getting caught was small, but the consequences could be very severe if you are caught?

doesn't sound like bullshit to me, sounds like a reasonable statement.

i'm not telling you not to do cash rides. you do you. i assume you're an adult or you wouldn't be a driver. make your decision.

i was just pointing out the risk. you are not risk-adverse. carry on.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Screwber driver north said:


> Statistically speaking in my small sample, it is, specially as those cash rides were done at the time Uber started a massive manhunt to catch such people, telling the gov to get the inspectors to go undercover to catch cash trips, it started here and eventually moved all over, next thing you knew, the news were full of sting operations in NY, Cali, Chicago, etc.
> 
> Thanks for reinforcing my point with the 85 mph example, your odds are even higher to get caught by speeding due to the volume of cops who can catch you doing it in plain sight.
> 
> ...


Statistically, statistics suck balls. Statistically, I'm more likely to slip/fall/die in the shower than I am to be killed in car crash.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Y'all think you won't get caught off app. You think the numbers are in your favor. I have a daughter who is only 14 years younger than I am. Think about it.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Frontier Guy said:


> Statistically, statistics suck balls. Statistically, I'm more likely to slip/fall/die in the shower than I am to be killed in car crash.


I'm more likely to die eaten by an alligator than crash to my death, some people are just born in fear.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Y'all think you won't get caught off app. You think the numbers are in your favor. I have a daughter who is only 14 years younger than I am. Think about it.


Was that a warning or you showing off getting laid early age?


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## Stevie The magic Unicorn (Apr 3, 2018)

Frontier Guy said:


> Statistically, statistics suck balls. Statistically, I'm more likely to slip/fall/die in the shower than I am to be killed in car crash.


And i've never been robbed, but it doesn't stop me from carrying a loaded gun in my fanny pack on the job.


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## SpinalCabbage (Feb 5, 2020)

Screwber driver north said:


> Was that a warning or you showing off getting laid early age?


Stupidest thing I ever did in my life. Take it as a warning not a brag.. Was my first time. Was her first time. 9 months later we are forever parents.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

SpinalCabbage said:


> Stupidest thing I ever did in my life. Take it as a warning not a brag.. Was my first time. Was her first time. 9 months later we are forever parents.


I would take it as a warning but I stopped being a teenager about 4 decades ago.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> We could keep arguing who is dumber thus far with me having saved a ton of money in insurance and not suffered any catastrophic losses or you who is still paying for volcano insurance.


That works fine... until it doesn't.

Insurance is for low probability, high consequence events. Apparently you don't think anything bad is going to happen, at least not to you.

Or as I've heard on this site:
"Deactivation in five, four, three, two, one...


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## Darrell Green Fan (Feb 9, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Look, if you don't wanna do it, fine, no money for you.
> 
> You come along with some others and create this massive boogieman I have proven not to exist also backed by people who do cash rides, I have done a crapload of cash rides in my time Ubering, and so have a ton of friends, none have been caught, luck? no, if you look at it statistically 10 people not being caught in years calls for what I said, your odds of being ****ed by a cash ride, are as much as you winning the lotto.
> 
> Is that so hard for you to understand? At the end of the day, don't do the rides, let people who need the money make the money they need, again, show me statistics that prove you will get caught and your life will be screwed or please stop replying, hell, invent case scenarios.


Making the same argument over and over again does not make you look smarter. Neither does arguing about not getting "caught" when I said nothing about the legalities of what you were doing, just the financial risk you are taking.

Myself and others have been very clear: this may work for you but it's a really stupid risk that most sane people are not willing to take. Calling driving uninsured and risking complete financial ruin a "boogieman" and doing a victory dance because this has not backfired on you yet just shows us that you have a lot of growing up to do.

You are dismissed.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> I'm more likely to die eaten by an alligator than crash to my death, some people are just born in fear.


There are worse things than death.
One might be ... crashing while giving a cash ride, living and having your pax and a the guy on the sidewalk die. (who was a 34 yo doctor with two kids).

THAT would be worse than death.

.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Screwber driver north said:


> I'm more likely to die eaten by an alligator than crash to my death, some people are just born in fear.


Its' not crashing to your death, it's the crash in general that should be concerned.

Example, the massive wind driven wildfire that hit Superior, Louisville, Lafayette, Colorado on Dec. 30th, destroyed thousands of homes and businesses, the majority homeowners are finding out they were grossly underinsured, and many who ran businesses out of their homes, and never reported it, are finding out they have even less coverage than they thought they did. There was a discussion a few weeks back on the radio, a guy who ran a landscaping business out of his home, and carried no commercial insurance lost his landscape trailer and roughly $15k to $20K in tools in the fire, his insurance is covering his home, but nothing for his business, he's having to replace it out of pocket, which forced him to terminate half his employees.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Frontier Guy said:


> Its' not crashing to your death, it's the crash in general that should be concerned.
> 
> Example, the massive wind driven wildfire that hit Superior, Louisville, Lafayette, Colorado on Dec. 30th, destroyed thousands of homes and businesses, the majority homeowners are finding out they were grossly underinsured, and many who ran businesses out of their homes, and never reported it, are finding out they have even less coverage than they thought they did. There was a discussion a few weeks back on the radio, a guy who ran a landscaping business out of his home, and carried no commercial insurance lost his landscape trailer and roughly $15k to $20K in tools in the fire, his insurance is covering his home, but nothing for his business, he's having to replace it out of pocket, which forced him to terminate half his employees.


Lol, that's a risk area, you guys don't get risk vs odd.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> Lol, that's a risk area, you guys don't get risk vs odd.


and, you don't get 'risk vs. return'.
Not a very good gambler if you don't understand 'pot odds'.

Poker *pot* *odds* is a mathematical expression of risk and reward. *Pot* *odds* tell you how much do you need to risk in order to win a reward. It is the ratio between the reward and the risk. Reward = *Pot* to be Won The *pot* can be at any point of the game - preflop, flop, turn or river. Risk = How much you need to risk in order to win the *pot*

So, the pot is what you make from the ride. That is the 'win'. The call, or bet is the amount you would lose if things went all sideways.

So, is it worth it to win, say $50 and risk your freedom? 
That's a personal question, and each makes their own determination of what their life is worth.

I have the opportunity to steal $5000 from my boss. I will most likely get away with it; and even if caught would probably get off.
Probably. Odds are with me.
But, is it a good bet? is it worth it?

If I do the whole thing, it could mean 5 years in prison. Is my freedom worth $1000 a year? Not even factoring in the ancillary damage (divorce, loss of some privileges, blacklisted from many jobs) I decided that it was NOT worth the risk and didn't do it.
Now, IF the pot was bigger ... $50,000? $50 MILLION ??? 
That is computing 'pot odds' on the fly.

What you're risking vs. what you win.

But, if you're life isn't worth as much to you as mine is to me -- then, your decision may be different.

Be you.

.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

UberBastid said:


> and, you don't get 'risk vs. return'.
> Not a very good gambler if you don't understand 'pot odds'.


That's funny, I'm not the one talking about not doing cash rides cause my very slim odds of having a fatal accident can ruin my life, how is that for pot odds?

Again, you guys have fun with your volcano insurance which I'm sure will pay off eventually.



UberBastid said:


> So, the pot is what you make from the ride. That is the 'win'. The call, or bet is the amount you would lose if things went all sideways.


Nah, the pot is the money you make and the bet are the chances you have at getting caught, your logic isn't very logical.

Bet=risk
Pot=payment

The rest, you shouldn't even have bothered, your logic is flawed.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Screwber driver north said:


> Lol, that's a risk area, you guys don't get risk vs odd.


I get risk vs odds quite well, you don't. Hypothetically, you have that accident, the other motorist and the pax sue you for $1 million each, Allstate denies the claim, where does that money come from? Tell us how the conversation with your wife goes when you tell her you're being sued for $2 million and your insurance isn't going to protect you. BTW, here's the other side of it, let's say that Allstate does cover you, since you lied to them, after they pay out the claim they cancel your insurance policy, what will be your new option, because there's something called a "CLUE" report, that all insurance companies subscribe to and get, your claim will show up on it, as will the reason you were cancelled by Allstate, both of which are either going to make you uninsurable, or, if someone does cover you, you'll pay rates triple or quadruple what you currently pay for the next 4 yrs. Are those risks worth it?


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Frontier Guy said:


> I get risk vs odds quite well, you don't. Hypothetically, you have that accident, the other motorist and the pax sue you for $1 million each, Allstate denies the claim, where does that money come from? Tell us how the conversation with your wife goes when you tell her you're being sued for $2 million and your insurance isn't going to protect you. BTW, here's the other side of it, let's say that Allstate does cover you, since you lied to them, after they pay out the claim they cancel your insurance policy, what will be your new option, because there's something called a "CLUE" report, that all insurance companies subscribe to and get, your claim will show up on it, as will the reason you were cancelled by Allstate, both of which are either going to make you uninsurable, or, if someone does cover you, you'll pay rates triple or quadruple what you currently pay for the next 4 yrs. Are those risks worth it?


To top your fantasies, you must assume the one at fault is you, not only does it have to be a fatal accident but also your fault to respond to the other car's demands, rofl.

Are you prone to a fatal accident? then why are you Ubering? save your life.

You kids insert some of the most nonsensical less likely shit to ever happen (statistically speaking) to your argument and excuse your stupidity of paying for volcano insurance because, holy shit I might crash hard and my pax will sue me, correct me if I am wrong but are you millionaire by having won the lotto? if not, please shut up already.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> That's funny, I'm not the one talking about not doing cash rides cause my very slim odds of having a fatal accident can ruin my life, how is that for pot odds?


I dunno. Sounds like you've done YOUR risk/return or pot odds analysis and made a decision. "All-In".

I LOVE playing against "all-in donkey's". I will fold two dozen hands in a row, good hands and lose the blinds, over and over ... and wait. Sooner or later they will grin and call "all in" expecting me to fold again ... but I don't, because I'm looking at better than 'good' hands; I finally got pocket Kings, or Aces; and take their whole stack.

Call all in on every hand and somebody will take you out.



Screwber driver north said:


> Nah, the pot is the money you make and the bet are the chances you have at getting caught


Everything is expressed in $. So the bet is not 'chances' ... the bet is $. How much is your bet (or call), and how much do you stand to win? Both dollar amounts. Do the math and arrive at pot odds. Risk is the interpretition of pot odds. Pot odds is expressed as a ratio - or percentage. How much you get for how much you bet.

So, if you 'bet' a multimillion dollar lawsuit to win the pot (the amount you're being paid for taking the risk) your pot odds are ... I dunno. Pretty wild.
You are betting a LOT of money to win small pots.
You are betting a million dollars that you will win $5, or $10.

Like I said, everybody determines their own self-worth.

.


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## Cvillegordo (Oct 30, 2019)

My wife flew into Houston last week and for some reason her Uber app would not load. She walked over to the line of taxis and got in the next one in line. The driver was "very nice" and volunteered to load her very heavy bag. She said he was a careful driver, had a clean car, and made pleasant small talk. She got to her hotel and handed him her business card. He said "cash only, $50." At that point she noticed that he had no meter, no credit card machine, no ID or anything on the dashboard. She started to protest and he got mad. She said "I'll run in and use the ATM." He would not open the trunk and take out her bag until she came back. She took a picture of his license plate. She told me she was just tired I did not think about having any issues with an airport taxi. She will next time! What amazes me is that in spite of being born in another country, traveling often including internationally, not to mention being married to a former police officer (me) who often talks to her about awareness, being alert in public, etc this can still happen. Wake up out there!


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

[


UberBastid said:


> Everything is expressed in $. So the bet is not 'chances' ... the bet is $. How much is your bet (or call), and how much do you stand to win? Both dollar amounts. Do the math and arrive at pot odds. Risk is the interpretition of pot odds. Pot odds is expressed as a ratio - or percentage. How much you get for how much you bet.


Everything is expressed in cash? How does that work? The pot is profit, the bet is risk, you are on crack with your illogical logic.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Cvillegordo said:


> My wife flew into Houston last week and for some reason her Uber app would not load. She walked over to the line of taxis and got in the next one in line. The driver was "very nice" and volunteered to load her very heavy bag. She said he was a careful driver, had a clean car, and made pleasant small talk. She got to her hotel and handed him her business card. He said "cash only, $50." At that point she noticed that he had no meter, no credit card machine, no ID or anything on the dashboard. She started to protest and he got mad. She said "I'll run in and use the ATM." He would not open the trunk and take out her bag until she came back. She took a picture of his license plate. She told me she was just tired I did not think about having any issues with an airport taxi. She will next time! What amazes me is that in spite of being born in another country, traveling often including internationally, not to mention being married to a former police officer (me) who often talks to her about awareness, being alert in public, etc this can still happen. Wake up out there!


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

Screwber driver north said:


> the bet is risk


Come on.
Think.

Have you ever gambled?
when you sit down at the blackjack table, what do you gamble with ... risk?
You gamble with MONEY.

The bet is made with MONEY.

This is like kindergarten shit here.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

UberBastid said:


> Come on.
> Think.
> 
> Have you ever gambled?
> ...


Brother, stop. PLEASE.





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Loading…






en.wikipedia.org





Have a loooonnngg read about the odds formula and probability/risk, I am going to mathematically give you your chances at getting caught doing cash rides by assuming your only (and highest uncontrollable odd) is injury during an accident, I will do it for the county I live on based on pure math so you can stop this boogieman crap, you and the others who didn't get past arithmetic in school.

My county reports 15728 accidents that report injury the past year.

You do 100 cash rides in a year.

Probability is the number of events divided by outcomes

Your risk is: 100/15728

Your Risk is .0006 or .06% chance of getting into one of those, do any of you drop outs understand you are pretty much going up against the odds of winning the lotto? (not that bad but still it should give you an idea).

For the love of ****ing God stop, I don't know what's worse, buying volcano insurance or freaken discussing how likely are you to get ****ed by a cash ride.

You try to liken cash to the nonsense you spew when you barely understand what a formula is and how it applies to factors and not a special type of measurements like cash or coins or brain cells.

IN your silly comparison to pot odds, the freaken POT is the freaken FACTOR of PROFIT, the BET is the simple FACTOR of RISK, why in the hell should the logic be likened to your crackpot idea of me freaken playing a gambling game with money, Jesus H Christ on a ladder.

You are ****ing DEAD right, it's a freaken kindergarten.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Cvillegordo said:


> At that point she noticed that he had no meter, no credit card machine, no ID or anything on the dashboard. She started to protest and he got mad. She said "I'll run in and use the ATM." He would not open the trunk and take out her bag until she came back. She took a picture of his license plate. She told me she was just tired I did not think about having any issues with an airport taxi.


Wow. I'm sorry that happened to her here in my city.

I think I would have walked inside and called the police on my cell phone.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Frontier Guy said:


> BTW, here's the other side of it, let's say that Allstate does cover you, since you lied to them, after they pay out the claim they cancel your insurance policy, what will be your new option, because there's something called a "CLUE" report, that all insurance companies subscribe to and get, your claim will show up on it, as will the reason you were cancelled by Allstate, both of which are either going to make you uninsurable, or, if someone does cover you, you'll pay rates triple or quadruple what you currently pay for the next 4 yrs. Are those risks worth it?


Let's make matters worse. All of those things happen, including becoming uninsurable.

And then Allstate sues him for the amount that they paid out for the settlement of the lawsuit.

And then he maybe gets indicted for insurance fraud.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Screwber driver north said:


> To top your fantasies, you must assume the one at fault is you, not only does it have to be a fatal accident but also your fault to respond to the other car's demands, rofl.
> 
> Are you prone to a fatal accident? then why are you Ubering? save your life.
> 
> You kids insert some of the most nonsensical less likely shit to ever happen (statistically speaking) to your argument and excuse your stupidity of paying for volcano insurance because, holy shit I might crash hard and my pax will sue me, correct me if I am wrong but are you millionaire by having won the lotto? if not, please shut up already.


So the real world is a fantasy, cool, glad to hear it.

Let's assume the other driver is at fault, let's hear your story you and the pax are going to tell when someone starts investigating the accident. Do you think the other parties insurance company isn't going to start digging, that the cops won't ask digging questions? You are the one living in the fantasy land, and even if the other driver is at fault, the pax still has the option to sue you and your insurance. I'm not saying you're naive, but you are incredibly naive.


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## PukersAreAlwaysYourFault (Mar 25, 2021)

That's called soliciting and you're breaching contract. Cause for instant deactivation. Some places will impound your vehicle and take your drivers license if you happen to solicit an undercover cop. And if the rideshare company really cared further, they could take you to court for that contract breach and $$$ lost.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Frontier Guy said:


> So the real world is a fantasy, cool, glad to hear it.
> 
> Let's assume the other driver is at fault, let's hear your story you and the pax are going to tell when someone starts investigating the accident. Do you think the other parties insurance company isn't going to start digging, that the cops won't ask digging questions? You are the one living in the fantasy land, and even if the other driver is at fault, the pax still has the option to sue you and your insurance. I'm not saying you're naive, but you are incredibly naive.


Do you have assets that exceed 100k? if not, let me let you in on a little secret, are you ready?

NO LAWYER IN AMERICA WILL SUE FOR LESS THAN THAT, why? because he needs at the VERY LEAST 80k for his troubles, do you have more than 100k in assets? then my friend why are you ubering is my question? LOL, retired? Go ride the app and let those who have nothing to lose aka the vast majority of drivers take your on app trips by doing a side business in cash, jelly? Do it or seek another gig.

A. Your odds of an injury accident are already proven mathematically to be damn near impossibility.

B. Your assets have to exceed a point in which you can be worth a lawsuit.

C. You can use the app itself to protect you against no insurance crash if the cash ride originates from it.

D. Responsibility for asking for cash rides has affected lawsuits in the past, fines have been applied to pax as well.

A cash ride lawsuit involved in a crash is a shitshow of a lawsuit because culpability is like a hot potato that jumps from the pax to the driver, ask any lawyer.

Happy ubering and trying to protect your 100k in assets? okay, your loss, let others take your work, don't be a hater.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> NO LAWYER IN AMERICA WILL SUE FOR LESS THAN THAT, why? because he needs at the VERY LEAST 80k for his troubles


Not true.

First, because here in Texas you can take someone to JP Court (our equivalent to small claims court) for up to $20,000.

Second, because for some causes of action, you can add the attorney's fees into the amount you're suing for.

Now, let's suppose you only have assets of, say, $50,000. Guess who gets paid first out of the judgment. The attorney, of course.

So no, just because you have assets less than $100,000, that does NOT make you judgment-proof. Far from it.

And that's leaving out the cases in which you happened to get into an accident with someone whose brother-in-law is an out of work attorney who will do it for them for just the cost of the filing fees.

Trust me, those happen. I see those cases pretty often. And that attorney who's not being paid for their time? They really don't have any need to settle with you.

They'll run your sorry butt down to the courthouse for hearing after hearing after hearing. Just because they can. And because they know you'll hate it, and will agree to pay them something to drop their suit against you.

And because they know that if YOU don't shell out your money for your own attorney, sooner or later, you'll F*** up and miss a deadline for something. And then you are well and truly screwed.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Christinebitg said:


> Not true.
> 
> First, because here in Texas you can take someone to JP Court (our equivalent to small claims court) for up to $20,000.
> 
> ...


You are speaking of paralegal in small claims, you said the pot is 20k, a commercial insurance claim goes to real court and the lawyer will not do it unless it can get about 80k minimum and if the case is a shit show, he will ask for more or drop it, how do I know this? my sister was involved in a crash, a bike crashed into her and the guy was left half dead and paralyzed, the guys was uninsured and SUED her on top, the lawyer send her a letter to disclose her assets (this is to know if it was worth it), once he realized there wasn't close to 100k he dropped the case, the moron riding the bike died a few days later.

There is no "let's suppose 50k", Small claims is not real court, hell, small claims is you on your own most of the time.

Do you th8nk a pax will go through the trouble of suing someone to pay it all to an attorney? LOL.


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## UberBastid (Oct 1, 2016)

chimppad said:


> do yall walk around picking up used condoms?


No, but I do appreciate the complimentary gum I find under seats sometimes.

.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

chimppad said:


> do yall walk around picking up used condoms?


🤣

You'll be surprised how many weirdos do this gig.


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## pohunohi27 (9 mo ago)

DontGoToPaterson said:


> When the bars close and you get long trips, a lot of these pax are desperate for rides. Go off the app, and tell them youll do it for 5 or 7$ cheaper. Pay via venmo or zelle.
> 
> Start hustling the side hustle.


Yep he’ll LOL until you get caught or you get into an accident and your insurance doesn’t cover you and your passenger. And then your stupid ass ends up in jail. If you’re going to take passengers spend the $1200 to get your TCP


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Screwber driver north said:


> Do you have assets that exceed 100k? if not, let me let you in on a little secret, are you ready?
> 
> NO LAWYER IN AMERICA WILL SUE FOR LESS THAN THAT, why? because he needs at the VERY LEAST 80k for his troubles, do you have more than 100k in assets? then my friend why are you ubering is my question? LOL, retired? Go ride the app and let those who have nothing to lose aka the vast majority of drivers take your on app trips by doing a side business in cash, jelly? Do it or seek another gig.
> 
> ...


LMAO, You know why they sue for 100K, because it's easier to start from high and work low, than to start low and work high. 2018, I was in an at fault accident, the suit that followed was for $100K, it was settled out of court for $25K,

A. Hmm, according to IIHS and a study by Esurance, there's an average of 6 million car crashes annually, on average 40,000 die from car crashes, another 2 million suffer permanent injuries, and 4 million suffer injuries that require hospital treatment, an unknown number receive injuries they never seek treatment for. So much for your odds claims.
A 1. Per CDC/NIOSH, in 2019, there were 1,270 deaths among U.S. workers riding/driving in a motor vehicle, the transportation and warehousing industry accounted for 41% of those.
A 2. According to a 2012 study by Esurance, the odds of being in a car crash are 1 in 366 per 1,000 miles travelled.
A 3. Per NHTSA, in 2021 there was an 18.4% increase in traffic fatalities in the first 6 months of the year, vs one year earlier

B. You do realize that a judgement can be reaffirmed in perpetuity, further once a settlement is reached, you'll be required to fill out paperwork to list all assets, liabilities, bank accounts, etc., any and all bank accounts and jobs can be attached to seize wages, the only thing that is exempt is social security. Even if you file bankruptcy, a judgement may still escape the filing, or be excluded from, and require you to pay.

C. Please show case law, from all 50 states to support this

D. Again, please cite case law from all 50 states, even so, you the driver are the one behind the wheel, the greater burden is going to fall on you.

And a good trial lawyer will salivate at the chance to go after you.


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## Frontier Guy (Dec 27, 2015)

Screwber driver north said:


> You are speaking of paralegal in small claims, you said the pot is 20k, a commercial insurance claim goes to real court and the lawyer will not do it unless it can get about 80k minimum and if the case is a shit show, he will ask for more or drop it, how do I know this? my sister was involved in a crash, a bike crashed into her and the guy was left half dead and paralyzed, the guys was uninsured and SUED her on top, the lawyer send her a letter to disclose her assets (this is to know if it was worth it), once he realized there wasn't close to 100k he dropped the case, the moron riding the bike died a few days later.
> 
> There is no "let's suppose 50k", Small claims is not real court, hell, small claims is you on your own most of the time.
> 
> Do you th8nk a pax will go through the trouble of suing someone to pay it all to an attorney? LOL.


Call me extremely skeptical, you are leaving things out

Regardless of the level of court, you don't file disclosure of assets until a judgement has been entered

In most states, legal fees are capped at 1/3rd or 33%, my case I referenced above, the settlement was $25K, the lawyer got $8,250, the other party got $16,750.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Frontier Guy said:


> LMAO, You know why they sue for 100K, because it's easier to start from high and work low, than to start low and work high. 2018, I was in an at fault accident, the suit that followed was for $100K, it was settled out of court for $25K,
> 
> A. Hmm, according to IIHS and a study by Esurance, there's an average of 6 million car crashes annually, on average 40,000 die from car crashes, another 2 million suffer permanent injuries, and 4 million suffer injuries that require hospital treatment, an unknown number receive injuries they never seek treatment for. So much for your odds claims.
> A 1. Per CDC/NIOSH, in 2019, there were 1,270 deaths among U.S. workers riding/driving in a motor vehicle, the transportation and warehousing industry accounted for 41% of those.
> ...


Settlement for 25k, do you read before you reply? Did the lawyer do anything? No? Then 25k is more than enough, have a lawyer litigate for less than 80k on a commercial insurance case, you said so yourself, your lawsuit was 100k and the fees should have been 33.5%, he charged 25 cause he didn't do anything and you just bent over, you ****ed up because if the lawyer would have known you had less than 100k in assets or coverage from your insurance, he would have dropped then case because its not worth his time, should you have chosen to fight it even at fault, do you know how much the shittiest of lawyers gets paid a month? My friend is average and his firm with 3 lawyers gets about a million a month.

My my, you seem to know more about odds and risk than I give you ants credit for, just kidding, you are an idiot.

The odds I ran are based on my area and they are injury during accident, I don't have to put anything else in the odds, death saves you from litigation unless you now have numbers to support when the driver dies or the pax, LOL.

IF you had the smallest hint of a clue about what I wrote, you wouldn't be bloating those numbers in a sad attempt to be right, you idiot, the higher the numbers, the lower the chance, lol you actually didn't read jack and assumed "omg let me try to bloat numbers to prove my moronic point", glad you couldn't understand and shot yourself in the foot, what's more you insert other irrelevant numbers at a lower count to see if you hit the jackpot, LOL, go read, son.

PLEASE tell me I am wrong, I need to continue to laugh harder.


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## Donatello (6 mo ago)

Frontier Guy said:


> Call me extremely skeptical, you are leaving things out
> 
> Regardless of the level of court, you don't file disclosure of assets until a judgement has been entered
> 
> In most states, legal fees are capped at 1/3rd or 33%, my case I referenced above, the settlement was $25K, the lawyer got $8,250, the other party got $16,750.


You bent over.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Frontier Guy said:


> In most states, legal fees are capped at 1/3rd or 33%, my case I referenced above, the settlement was $25K, the lawyer got $8,250, the other party got $16,750.


Not here in Texas, they're not. They're negotiable between the client and the attorney, even for contingent fee cases.

Even on a contingent fee case, that's not how they're considered in court here. The attorney still has to prove up the hours spent working on the case, and the rate(s) that apply. And if the hours are more, guess who's paying for that.


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## Christinebitg (Jun 29, 2018)

Screwber driver north said:


> You are speaking of paralegal in small claims, you said the pot is 20k, a commercial insurance claim goes to real court and the lawyer will not do it unless it can get about 80k minimum


Not so fast, Bubba.

Suppose you're in an accident and the damage you cause to someone else's car is less than $20,000. Then you ARE headed for JP Court here. No ifs, ands, or buts.

The difference here depends on how much the damages are. Not on ANYTHING ELSE. Not depending on whether there is damage to someone's car. Not depending on if there are medical bills. Not depending on whether it's "commercial," like you said.

Nothing else. That Justice of the Peace is elected by the citizens who live in that precinct, and he (or she) gets to rule on your case. Unless you want to hire an attorney yourself and appeal the JP's decision after it's handed down.

Or unless the other side wants to go beyond JP Court right away, and file their lawsuit in County Court or State Court (known as District Court here).

And the other person is entitled to do that. AND they're entitled to file it without the help of an attorney if they choose to do that. That's called "pro se" here. It's not real common, but it happens from time to time here. And the judges at all levels go out of their way to make sure those plaintiffs get some degree of justice. Partly because all those judges are elected here. And partly because they just happen to think it's the right thing to do.

So dream on, if you think you're judgment proof because you don't have $100,000 in the bank.


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