# Put These LOSERS out of Business!



## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

FUber and Let-Down-Lyft are a scam!

They steal billions from investors
Flood the market with too many drivers/low rates in order to put the competition out of business
Misclassify their drivers in order to avoid paying a living wage or proper taxes (to name a few)
Let desperate, underpaid, drowsy drivers stay on the road and endanger the lives of passengers
Hire drivers with criminal records because their turnover rate is so high
Has gaps in their insurance coverage, which doesn't cover the driver during certain periods
Offers subprime auto loans in order to get new drivers with bad credit on the road
Lies to their new drivers about how much money they'll make
Allows passenger discrimination to run ramped -- minority passengers historically wait longer
Oppose union and bargaining rights for their misclassified drivers
Doesn't support tipping, or does so in an effort to pay their drivers less of an hourly rate (Fuber and Let-Down-Lyft, respectively)
Routinely gets sued on a weekly basis
Tracks their passengers
Spends millions on lobbyists in order bribe the government into letting them do what they want
Are masters of PR spin
Discriminates against people with disabilities
Screens drivers but not passengers -- proof that one life is more valuable and important that the other
Only requires a vehicle inspection once a year, which means hundreds of thousands of rides (daily) are putting people's lives in danger (drivers can't afford the maintenance)
Has horrendous support that offers a template response instead of a real response because you're nothing but a number
Loses hundreds of millions (sometimes billions) of dollars every year and refuses to release their financials because it would end everything they know
Hides their Arbitration Agreement from drivers and passengers in order to make lawsuits more difficult (arbitration usually always favors Fuber or Let-Down-Lyft because they're paying for the hearing)
They deactivate drivers for petty reasons in order to reduce market saturation when it's convenient for them (leaving the driver helpless and alone)
Makes drivers think a high rating will get them better calls when all a rating is designed to do is mentally condition them into living in fear (passengers can rate them poorly or discriminate against them at any time, and neither company cares or has protections in place to prevent such occurrences)
Most of their drivers make less than minimum wage
Charge 20-25% for simply operating an app
If you agree, then start telling passengers the truth.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

William Marshall said:


> Uber and Lyft are a scam. They steal billions from investors; subsidize the ride; flood the market with too many drivers/low rates to put the competition out of business; misclassify their drivers to avoid paying a living wage or proper taxes (to name a few); let desperate, underpaid drowsy drivers stay on the road and endanger the lives of passengers; hire drivers with criminal records because their driver turnover rate is so high and they're desperate; has gaps in their insurance coverage, which doesn't cover the driver during certain periods; offers subprime auto loans to get new drivers with bad credit on the road; lies to their new drivers about how much money they will make; allows pasenger discrimination to run rampid -- minority passengers historically wait longer; oppose union and bargaining rights for their misclasified drivers; doesn't support tipping or does so in an effort to pay their drivers less of an hourly rate (Uber and Lyft, respectively); routinely gets sued on a weekly basis; tracks their passengers; spends millions on lobbyists to bribe the government into letting them do what they want; are masters of PR spin -- notice a story will always come out that touts something that isn't bad (after a negative story comes out about them); discriminates against people with disabilities; screens drivers but not passengers -- proof that one life is more valuable and important that the other; only requires a vehicle inspection once a year, which means hundreds of thousands of rides a day are putting people's lives in danger (drivers can't afford the maintenance); has horrendous support that offers a template response instead of a real response because you're nothing but a number; loses hundreds of millions (sometimes billions) of dollars every year and refuses to release their financials because the lie would be exposed and their time would be up; hides their arbitration agreement from drivers and passengers in order to make lawsuits difficult (arbitration usually always favors Uber or Lyft because they're paying for the hearing); they deactive drivers for petty reasons in order to reduce market saturation when it's convenient for them (leaving the driver helpless and alone); make drivers think a high rating will get them better calls when all a rating is designed to do is mentally conditon them to live in fear (passengers can rate them poorly or discriminate against them at any time, and neither company cares or has protections in place to prevent such occurances); most of their drivers make less than minimum wage; charge 20-25% for simply operating an app; and they suck. Feel free to add anything I've missed, and if you agree, START TELLING PASSENGERS THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PUT THESE COMPANIES OUT OF BUSINESS. THINK ABOUT ALL THE GOOD YOU CAN DO IN THIS WORLD BY SPARING A NEW DRIVER THE PAIN OF BEING DUPED/THE NEXT PASENGER FROM BEING ASSUALTED OR IN A DEADLY WRECK. IMAGINE YOU HAD A FAMILY MEMBER WHO TOOK UBER OR LYFT AND THEY NEVER MADE IT HOME, BUT YOU SPEAKING UP COULD HAVE PREVENTED THEM FROM GETTING IN THE CAR IN THE FIRST PLACE? PERHAPS YOU'RE IN A TIGHT SPOT AND YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO DRIVE, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A CHOICE.


Uber is almost as bad as Government.
It's pitiful.


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## Zalltime (Oct 13, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber is almost as bad as Government.
> It's pitiful.


Uber puts food on our table. Never bite the feed that hands you.


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## BrickCityGrl (Nov 28, 2016)

You make some good points, but this is just a side hustle for me. I drive Lyft a couple days out of the week & I like the extra money. 

I will add that Lyft hires drivers that speak little to no English. Last month I used Lyft for a ride to the airport one morning, the driver looked exhausted & I lost count how many times he slammed on his brakes...got to the airport and he headed toward arrivals, I told him no departures, he turned to me said "No English" and dropped me off at arrivals


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

I appreciate the spirit of this screed (and agree on several points), but, to be "fair" Uber does not lie about how much money drivers can make, rather they compose their _copy_ to read _*as if*_ everybody singing up has a shot at that (arbitrary) figure. Yes they do certainly take advantage of folks who aren't into arithmetic and critical thinking.

I say let the Invisible Hand of the Market do it's work. People (companies) who USE people, and people (drivers) who think they can get something of substance with little thought or sweat & tears, actually deserve each other. It's a dysfunctional relationship, to be sure.


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

Zalltime said:


> Uber puts food on our table. Never bite the feed that hands you.


You mean it puts "scraps" on the table.


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## Blackout 702 (Oct 18, 2016)

Paragraph breaks. Thanks.


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## tohunt4me (Nov 23, 2015)

Zalltime said:


> Uber puts food on our table. Never bite the feed that hands you.


Every time I look down that hand is taking way more than 25%.
Need to stick a fork in it.
And then they invite everyone in room to eat off of my plate. While they taking over 25%.
Never had ants before Uber.


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## LowRiderHyundai5000 (Jun 23, 2016)

Zalltime said:


> Uber puts food on our table. Never bite the feed that hands you.


You've never complained about a meal?


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## thesatanicmechanic (Nov 5, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber is almost as bad as Government.
> It's pitiful.


I'm a fan of democratic institutions myself.


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## Andre Benjamin 6000 (Nov 11, 2016)

Zalltime said:


> Uber puts food on our table. Never bite the feed that hands you.


Lol...you sound pitiful.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

tohunt4me said:


> Every time I look down that hand is taking way more than 25%.
> Need to stick a fork in it.
> And then they invite everyone in room to eat off of my plate. While they taking over 25%.
> Never had ants before Uber.


If you're doing your Schedule C and writing off all allowed business expenses, you should be able to reduce your gross by the amount that Uber charges your business.


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## AllenChicago (Nov 19, 2015)

circle1 said:


> If you're doing your Schedule C and writing off all allowed business expenses, you should be able to reduce your gross by the amount that Uber charges your business.


You're very correct...and it's even better if you play your "cards" right. I'll post more info in the appropriate, tax-related thread.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Zalltime said:


> Uber puts food on our table. Never bite the feed that hands you.


What are they going to do? The only thing worse than driving for Fuber or Let-Down-Lyft is...driving for Fuber or Let-Down-Lyft. Bring it.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

BrickCityGrl said:


> You make some good points, but this is just a side hustle for me. I drive Lyft a couple days out of the week & I like the extra money.
> 
> I will add that Lyft hires drivers that speak little to no English. Last month I used Lyft for a ride to the airport one morning, the driver looked exhausted & I lost count how many times he slammed on his brakes...got to the airport and he headed toward arrivals, I told him no departures, he turned to me said "No English" and dropped me off at arrivals


I get that it's a side thing, but it's important to note that when we put ourselves in a position to make pennies on the dollar, we don't think very highly of ourselves -- whether we recognize it or not. YOU ARE WORTH MORE THAN A VALUE MEAL.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

circle1 said:


> I appreciate the spirit of this screed (and agree on several points), but, to be "fair" Uber does not lie about how much money drivers can make, rather they compose their _copy_ to read _*as if*_ everybody singing up has a shot at that (arbitrary) figure. Yes they do certainly take advantage of folks who aren't into arithmetic and critical thinking.
> 
> I say let the Invisible Hand of the Market do it's work. People (companies) who USE people, and people (drivers) who think they can get something of substance with little thought or sweat & tears, actually deserve each other. It's a dysfunctional relationship, to be sure.


I don't know that desperation should equal entitlement, but you get what you pay for. As for driver pay, the amounts they advertise are "full time" earnings, and they don't include all of extras like taxes and maintenance. If they did, the ad would say, "Make less than minimum wage," and that wouldn't be very appealing. But, if isn't fair to call all of it a lie, so let's settle on _half truth_.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> You mean it puts "scraps" on the table.


Perfection.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Blackout 702 said:


> Paragraph breaks. Thanks.


If I was writing a substantial piece, I would have. Fuber and Let-Down-Lyft don't deserve that much consideration.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

William Marshall said:


> I don't know that desperation should equal entitlement, but you get what you pay for. As for driver pay, the amounts they advertise are "full time" earnings, and they don't include all of extras like taxes and maintenance. If they did, the ad would say, "Make less than minimum wage," and that wouldn't be very appealing. But, if isn't fair to call all of it a lie, so let's settle on "half truth."


. . . and, as I said, "_they do certainly take advantage of folks who aren't into arithmetic and critical thinking_."


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

circle1 said:


> If you're doing your Schedule C and writing off all allowed business expenses, you should be able to reduce your gross by the amount that Uber charges your business.


Ahh, "I forgot to mention the lie of _your business_. "Hey, World! Be your own boss!" But we'll decide the car, the rates, the routes that determine compensation, the tipping abilities, the rating system, the legal agreement, the approval process, etc., etc., etc.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

William Marshall said:


> Ahh, "I forgot to mention the lie of "your business." Hey, World! Be your own boss! But we'll decide the car, the rates, the routes that determine compensation, the tipping abilities, the rating system, the legal agreement, the approval process, etc etc etc.


That is the privilege of capital. You put up hundreds-of-millions of dollars, then _*you*_ get to say what goes on.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

circle1 said:


> . . . and, as I said, "_they do certainly take advantage of folks who aren't into arithmetic and critical thinking_."


A lot of drivers are very intelligent, but they're stuck. Everyone thinks the economy is going well, but it's going well for a select few.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

William Marshall said:


> A lot of drivers are very intelligent, but they're stuck. Everyone thinks the economy is going well, but it's going well for a select few.


_AGREED_!!


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

circle1 said:


> That is the privilege of capital. You put up hundreds-of-millions of dollars, then _*you*_ get to say what goes on.


True, but you can't call drivers "independent contractors" while doing it." The law doesn't allow you to have your cake and eat it, too. Rideshaing companies need to pick a lane and stay in it.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

William Marshall said:


> True, but you can't call drivers "independent contractors" while doing it." The law doesn't allow you to have your cake and eat it, too. Rideshaing companies need to pick a lane and stay in it.


Well, that's just the thing of it . . . society is working it out as we speak. How much longer can this model be sustained? We don't know. We hope for not much longer (under the prevailing conditions), but be careful what you wish for, eh?

Look, we're going into a period of history that will involve lots of upheaval and radical changes. Letting off steam by posting rants _can be_ a healthy outlet (I guess), but let's be sober and smart about this.


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## Dontmakemepullauonyou (Oct 13, 2015)

ChortlingCrison said:


> You mean it puts "scraps" on the table.


Scraps on the floor, can't afford a table.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

circle1 said:


> Well, that's just the thing of it . . . society is working it out as we speak. How much longer can this model be sustained? We don't know. We hope for not much longer (under the prevailing conditions), but be careful what you wish for, eh?
> 
> Look, we're going into a period of history that will involve lots of upheaval and radical changes. Letting off steam by posting rants _can be_ a healthy outlet (I guess), but let's be sober and smart about this.


Actually, that's why I'm here. It's therapeutic to express my thoughts, make connections, and challenge myself to think differently (when applicable). I don't believe the business model can be sustained, and I don't believe Fuber or Let-Down-Lyft will make it to the finish line in time for autonomous cars -- the technology just isn't there yet. Also, driver turnover, physical assaults, deadly crashes, and lawsuits will only continue. Further, it's unrealistic to believe that they'll raise rates by 400% in time to become profitable, or that the general public would even pay for that level of service. If so, then everyone deserves to ride in a Mercedes. And, from a historical context, I don't know that this is anything new. Misclassification of employees certainly isn't, nor is Capitalism.


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## Adrian85 (Mar 21, 2016)

Not so fast my friend! Things will pick back up eventually so don't give up.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

Fuber and Let-Down-Lyft have only gotten worse over a 3-year period, and it would be best not to trick yourself into believing the tides will magically turn anytime soon -- you'll just get swept away with the current.


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## Larry Estell (Jan 25, 2015)

Zalltime said:


> Uber puts food on our table. Never bite the feed that hands you.


[email protected] UBER


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## cenTiPede (Dec 5, 2016)

Trump Economics said:


> Fuber and Let-Down-Lyft have only gotten worse over a 3-year period, and it would be best not to trick yourself into believing the tides will magically turn anytime soon -- you'll just get swept away with the current.


Before I forget. Writing a long arse block of text is rude to the readers not to Uber or Lyft. That's a specially bad decision if you're looking for sympathy.

I, for example, agree with you (probably) but skipped what you wrote because it was overwhelming.

Now, back to the on going topic, yes I agree that nothing is going to get better. The trend is down and it looks like it will keep going that way because there's plenty of desperate people around, even on this thread. There's room for Lyft and Uber to keep squeezing us, specially since they are not making any profit yet. So squeezing us is a business plan, not a one time necessity.

On top of that, I've noticed that gas prices are going up around here and if it keeps going that way it will kill the business faster than anything else. From what I understand of international economics, Russia wants oil prices to go up. And it looks like what Russia wants, Russia gets from our current administration. Is that true Trump Economics? 

BTW, I think that Trumponomics is a better term 

So, if this is your only job, start looking for something else. Anything. Because in a years' time even a minimum wage will be hard to get, unless you work 60h with no overtime pay.

If this is a side job to add some extra cash, think about the cost of what you're not doing with your free time. Exercising, spending time with family and friends, learning of better ways to make extra money. Life goes by pretty fast and earning the extra Lyft money may not be the best use of your time in some cases.

This business is like an airplane racing to the bottom, and we're on the nose of that airplane. Prepare for impact!


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## kcdrvr15 (Jan 10, 2017)

tohunt4me said:


> Uber is almost as bad as Government.
> It's pitiful.


I disagree, I worked, and worked hard, dangerous, stressful, long hours with Great pay and benefits for the US gov over 38 years. I got to travel and visit places few others get to, while working. I was impressed by the great men and women whom I worked with. So please dont tarnish the great people we have working, serving us, the American people by even comparing the gov to the selfish, greedy, two faced ceo Travis K.

Please, also dont attribute the failures of our gov to people working, most of the crap gov does is done by political types, both elected and appointed.


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## Toddorado (Feb 5, 2017)

Trump Economics said:


> FUber and Let-Down-Lyft are a scam!
> 
> They steal billions from investors
> etc., etc., etc.
> If you agree, then start telling passengers the truth.


Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

cenTiPede said:


> Before I forget. _*Writing a long arse block of text*_ is rude to the readers not to Uber or Lyft. That's a specially bad decision if you're looking for sympathy.
> 
> I, for example, agree with you (probably) but skipped what you wrote because it was overwhelming.
> 
> Now, _*back to the on going topic [???]*_ . . .


You're joking, right?


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

kcdrvr15 said:


> I disagree, I worked, and worked hard, dangerous, stressful, long hours with Great pay and benefits for the US gov over 38 years. _*I got to travel and visit places few others get to,*_ while working. I was impressed by the great men and women whom I worked with. So please dont tarnish the great people we have working, serving us, the American people by even comparing the gov to the selfish, greedy, two faced ceo Travis K.
> 
> Please, also dont attribute the failures of our gov to people working, most of the crap gov does is done by political types, both elected and appointed.


Were you also working inside the UFO base under the Antarctic?


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## ChortlingCrison (Mar 30, 2016)

circle1 said:


> Were you also working inside the UFO base under the Antarctic?


NO. Closer to the arctic circle.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

ChortlingCrison said:


> NO. Closer to the arctic circle.


. . . Ah.


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## kcdrvr15 (Jan 10, 2017)

circle1 said:


> Were you also working inside the UFO base under the Antarctic?


no, those people aren't allowed out.

Combined military/civilian career, in aviation. USAFSS, Faa, and contract work for state dept in Iraq.


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## EnjoyEnJan (May 18, 2016)

Here's the thing: if you don't like TNCs then don't contract with them! My life has gotten much, much better doing ridesharing. I love it. I love the passengers. I love the conversations. The money is there if you work in a decent market. I'm routinely making 30-40$/hr for 70+ weeks. How? I did my job well. Didn't spend my time whining about wanting to be an employee. Go work at McDonald's or Best Buy if you want to be someone's b|tch. I don't need someone crying about "liveable wage" and how the Mommy Daddy government is supposed to wipe my ass. I make my own hours. I work 60 hrs a week when I CHOOSE TO. Thing is, I've had many useless jobs that no matter how well I did -paid me not a dime more. I can't live like that. Since doing Lyft, I bought a Prius (originally had to lease one since I could not afford otherwise), got married, paid off credit card debt. Im not an employee. I sell my art on the dashboard. It pays for gas, water and mints. People overwhelmingly are supportive. It's there for the taking.

What else? The carpooling reduces congestion and improves air quality. PAX routinely tell me they sold their cars. That's thousands of cats not circling looking for parking. Etc etc.

I dont want medical, dental, minimum wage. That "free money" comes from somewhere. Thats why slaves get $7/hr working at Barnes and Noble. Im not a slave.

Its not Lyfts or Ubers responsibility to wipe your tush. If you dont like doing business with them, dont.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

EnjoyEnJan said:


> That's thousands of cats not circling looking for parking. Etc etc.


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

circle1 said:


>


This made my day


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Trump Economics said:


> This made my day


One of our UP members uses (used to use?) this photo for for their avatar, can't remember the name . . .


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

circle1 said:


> One of our UP members uses (used to use?) this photo for for their avatar, can't remember the name . . .


One of us has great taste


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## Jagent (Jan 29, 2017)

Everything about Uber encourages horrible behavior from drivers and pax. The system is set up to turn everyone into jerks...

*15 min ping? Ignore it. They can walk.
*Waiting more than 5 mins? Cancel pays more than minimum fare.
*Rating system encourages abuse on both sides.
*Surge? Wait it out if you're a pax. Ignore all other pings if you're a driver.
*Pax has kids or groceries? Run, no one tips.

I could go on and list 20 other examples. ... 99% of all these problems are rooted in the fact that base fares are too cheap. The entire system is screwed because of it.


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## circle1 (Sep 17, 2016)

Jagent said:


> Everything about Uber encourages horrible behavior from drivers and pax. The system is set up to turn everyone into jerks...
> 
> *15 min ping? Ignore it. They can walk.
> *Waiting more than 5 mins? Cancel pays more than minimum fare.
> ...


All the more reason UP is so valuable to TNC ICs! We need to be armed with as much information as possible.


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## Larry Estell (Jan 25, 2015)

EnjoyEnJan said:


> Here's the thing: if you don't like TNCs then don't contract with them! My life has gotten much, much better doing ridesharing. I love it. I love the passengers. I love the conversations.
> 
> I dont want medical, dental, minimum wage. That "free money" comes from somewhere. Thats why slaves get $7/hr working at Barnes and Noble. Im not a slave.
> 
> Its not Lyfts or Ubers responsibility to wipe your tush. If you dont like doing business with them, dont.


to funny lol wait till you have to pay for a new traqnsmission


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## EnjoyEnJan (May 18, 2016)

I doubt I'll have to! I drive a Prius- they don't have traqnsmissions!

Also, in what other bullsh:t job that pays a quarter to half as much did they ever pay me for my car breaking on the way to work?


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## Trump Economics (Jul 29, 2015)

EnjoyEnJan said:


> I doubt I'll have to! I drive a Prius- they don't have traqnsmissions!
> 
> Also, in what other bullsh:t job that pays a quarter to half as much did they ever pay me for my car breaking on the way to work?


Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha, stop, I'm laughing so much it hurts


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## EnjoyEnJan (May 18, 2016)

I've never seen one in there.

This guy has never had any traqnsmission problems either.

600,000 miles on a prius.

http://www.hybridcars.com/toyota-prius-taxi-running-strong-with-600000-miles-and-original-battery/


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## Jesusdrivesuber (Jan 5, 2017)

cenTiPede said:


> This business is like an airplane racing to the bottom, and we're on the nose of that airplane. Prepare for impact!


It's just Uber airlines, we all have parachutes and can always ride the next, this whole thing doesn't revolve around uber, tons of other companies are looking to replace them and they can with profit in mind not monopoly.

Business is ride-share, the airplane is Uber.


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