# The taxi wars: Uber takes Houston



## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...ajam&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow*
_
This four-part series, co-reported and -published with the Houston Chronicle, examines the impact of Uber, the app-based ride-hailing service, on America's fourth-largest city._


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## F-uber (Aug 1, 2015)

Every passing day, I get more of the sinking feeling that the taxis are in painful, agonizing death spiral.

I don't get it myself, but the younger, partying types think Uber is the greatest thing since bread came sliced. Part of this, I am sure, is the rating system. A traditional cabbie won't put up with much crap, but I suspect the Ubers do.

The consumer public should be careful about what they wish for. If the taxi companies are put out of business, they will be at the mercy of possibly one single company with a monopoly on global ground transport. That should give almost anyone pregnant pause for thought.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

F-uber said:


> Every passing day, I get more of the sinking feeling that the taxis are in painful, agonizing death spiral.
> 
> I don't get it myself, but the younger, partying types think Uber is the greatest thing since bread came sliced. Part of this, I am sure, is the rating system. A traditional cabbie won't put up with much crap, but I suspect the Ubers do.
> 
> The consumer public should be careful about what they wish for. If the taxi companies are put out of business, they will be at the mercy of possibly one single company with a monopoly on global ground transport. That should give almost anyone pregnant pause for thought.


Especially if that company is Uber. But I really would in some perverted corner of my mind like to see that and watch these asshole pax when prices triple.


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## F-uber (Aug 1, 2015)

That puppy nonsense in the initial paragraph, lauded as "masterful", is some of the silliest nonsense I have ever heard of. 

Are we as Americans really that trite and lonely? Yup, maybe so.


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## Another Uber Driver (May 27, 2015)

F-uber said:


> Every passing day, I get more of the sinking feeling that the taxis are in painful, agonizing death spiral.


Your fears may be well-founded, on paper, but they will not play out in reality.

We _*ain't *_going *nowhere.*


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

Can be found on internet under Uber employment in Friendswood. Uber trying to infiltrate suburbs of Houston. Have rec'd texts RE: *Manager Needed in Friendswood*

*UberX Driving Partner*
(No Driver Experience Needed) 

Posted in Houston
http://www.jobs2careers.com/Jobs/q-Uber-Driving-Partners-l-Friendswood-TX/


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*The taxi wars: Full-time with Uber, but running on fumes*
*By ETK*

*http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...full-time-with-uber-but-running-on-fumes.html*


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

My comment to above article.

"The city (Houston) sets per-mile rates and fees."

Wrong! 

Uber sets the per-mile rate, which is currently 50% (for UberX) of what a cab costs. UberX drivers are paid 15¢ per-minute, 37.5% of the rate a cab charges. Uber sets the rates for my platform, UberX.

@Byron Minnick -- Corrections 
"UberX is for fairs who have 5 or more people."

UberXL is for 5 - 7 riders. UberX can take only up to 4 riders. XL drivers will accept notifications for both X and XL requests for a driver.


"Houston is a large city with a decent public transportation system."

Houston has a decent bus system that generally does not extend beyond the inner loop. Houston Uber covers all of the suburbs of Houston stretching into the county north of Houston, and into the suburbs in three counties south of Houston all the way to Galveston.


". . . cities that impose registration fees on taxi drives, don't know how to address Uber drivers, . . ."

Houston knew how to address Uber drivers. If an Uber driver wants to pickup fares in the city of Houston or at the airports, they must go through the regulations Houston set and Uber objected to. The regulations include a drug test, a DOT physical, a warrant check, and fingerprinting for an FBI check. 
Many drivers stay in the suburbs where the permit is not needed. These drivers are the ones who drive on Uber's poor background checks.

Houston is saturated with X drivers. Their ads bring in drivers who are un- or under-employed, as well as college students from the major universities and the many 2-year colleges in the services area.

My biggest negative (out of several) is a driver needs to purchase commercial insurance (PIP, Comprehensive, Commercial, etc) to cover their expenses in the event of an emergency. To date I have not found an Uber certificate of insurance that covers me beyond liability.

Yes. I am an UberX driver with a Houston Permit.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

My reply in above article to someone who thinks Uber is up front with leading vehicles . . .

_Uber states in ads in my area "earn $35/hr." People are encouraged to lease by Uber reps who convince the potential leasee that he will be able to make the payments and more.
Houston Uber pays Xdrivers $1.10/mile. Compare that to a local cab that charges $4.75 for the first mile and $2.20 per mile for the second mile and beyond. The same cab company pays 40¢/ minute a as opposed to Uber's payment to Xdrivers of 15¢/minute._


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

UberNorthStar said:


> My reply in above article to someone who thinks Uber is up front with leading vehicles . . .
> 
> _Uber states in ads in my area "earn $35/hr." People are encouraged to lease by Uber reps who convince the potential leasee that he will be able to make the payments and more.
> Houston Uber pays Xdrivers $1.10/mile. Compare that to a local cab that charges $4.75 for the first mile and $2.20 per mile for the second mile and beyond. The same cab company pays 40¢/ minute a as opposed to Uber's payment to Xdrivers of 15¢/minute._


$.40 compared to Uber X of $.15/minute?

I could be wrong about this and I am too lazy to check my hunch, but I don't know of any taxi companies who charge both time and distance concurrently. It doesn't work that way in PA anyway. I am aware that with Uber, the two are charged concurrently. Maybe Houston/Texas taxis are different in that regard. All I know is my meter only switches to time when the car comes to a halt or maybe below something like 10 mph..... not sure, the idea is to keep the car moving.

Also, concerning the $4.75 for the first mile. It might be more accurate to say the the taxi company may divides a mile in say 1/7 or 1/6th increments. Say it it is by 1/7. The first 1/7th of a mile is the flag drop of say $2.40 and the rest, well the math isn't working out too nice, but the increments would be $.31 or .32 cents..... you get the gist. Unlike Uber, taxis rates are fixed to a posted schedule.

Uber's hourly rate promises are examples of complete fraud and deception. I often notice Uber drivers suggesting a sustainable rates would be set such that an Uber ride would cost right about 2/3 of a taxi ride. I'm not sure how that figure is achieved. Any taxi is driven almost 24/7 under ideal circumstances. Multiple drivers drive the car, in an ideal world, the car is only off the road to be worked on. The car is often bought used, many tai companies employ mechanics. When the car is done being used as a taxi, it is only fit for the crusher.

If you are an Uber driver, your math is different. You are likely to be driving a pretty fine car. The typical Uber driver wants to keep it pristine, it is even expected of you. You need to either do repairs yourself or pay someone else, that takes time. At some point, maintenance gets more expensive, before that happens, you should have long been thinking about how you will replace the current car and setting money aside.

Given the scale of operation, Uber is best kept casual, plus the high expectations, I can't see how one rate schedule could really meet everyone's needs (within X alone). If a driver is looking to drive long term, I couldn't imagine rates any less than a taxi's as being workable. I wouldn't even begin to guess, but hell, whatever the rate is, it's already 20-25% diminished by the time a driver gets paid.

Much needs sorting out.


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## F-uber (Aug 1, 2015)

I think the time and distance charge concurrently only when the speed of the traditional taxi is 11 mph or less. I have never seen this in writing, so, at best, the time charge is left vague for both driver and passenger.

Anyway, comparing the Uber time charge to a taxi is apples/oranges, except in the sense that they are both usually money losers. 

The drop of $4.75 seems like almost double what I have heard any cabbie ever report.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

F-uber said:


> I think the time and distance charge concurrently only when the speed of the traditional taxi is 11 mph or less. I have never seen this in writing, so, at best, the time charge is left vague for both driver and passenger.
> 
> Anyway, comparing the Uber time charge to a taxi is apples/oranges, except in the sense that they are both usually money losers.
> 
> The drop of $4.75 seems like almost double what I have heard any cabbie ever report.


Off a local company's website (and shot of the first page):
http://lonestarcab.com/fare-information/


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## F-uber (Aug 1, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> Off a local company's website (and shot of the first page):
> http://lonestarcab.com/fare-information/
> 
> View attachment 13457


The $24/hr wait time is what is in question. I am almost sure, but can't prove it, that for traditional cabbies it only kicks in when one is traveling 11mph or less. With Uber it is going on no matter what the speed.

As a cabbie, I have always gone by the motto "I want this arse out of here as soon as possible". I have never seen wait time as profitable or enjoyable. Well, only in a handful of situations.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

F-uber said:


> The $24/hr wait time is what is in question. I am almost sure, but can't prove it, that for traditional cabbies it only kicks in when one is traveling 11mph or less. With Uber it is going on no matter what the speed.
> 
> As a cabbie, I have always gone by the motto "I want this arse out of here as soon as possible". I have never seen wait time as profitable or enjoyable. Well, only in a handful of situations.


I think you are correct. Otherwise the website would be misleading call I g it "wait" time. It would simply be "time".

However the issue with time (wait or concurrent) being 15 cents per minute for uber is that waiting or being in a drive thru or traffic stopped is less than minimum wage. And even tacked on as concurrent with the miles it doesn't help much as even an entire hour at 60 mph it only adds 15 cents per mile to the fare. If you're driving 1 mph well then it adds a lot more but you are STILL less than minimum wage using even just gas expense.


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## F-uber (Aug 1, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I think you are correct. Otherwise the website would be misleading call I g it "wait" time. It would simply be "time".
> 
> However the issue with time (wait or concurrent) being 15 cents per minute for uber is that waiting or being in a drive thru or traffic stopped is less than minimum wage. And even tacked on as concurrent with the miles it doesn't help much as even an entire hour at 60 mph it only adds 15 cents per mile to the fare. If you're driving 1 mph well then it adds a lot more but you are STILL less than minimum wage using even just gas expense.


If I was an Uber, needed cash, and passenger wasn't extremely annoying, I would have an incentive to get them in a horrific traffic jam when it is surging.

I hate traffic and like being in motion.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

Huberis said:


> If you are an Uber driver, your math is different. . . Much needs sorting out.


Taxi
For the first 1/11 mile . . . $2.75
Every 1/11 mile up to 1 mile . . . 20¢

*Total for first mile = $4.75
*
Source: http://www.unitedcab.com/Fare_info.aspx

Apology accepted. 

PS. Yes, I AM (not "if") an UberX driver.


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## chi1cabby (May 28, 2014)

*Part 3*

*The taxi wars: Uber is 'destroying the taxi industry'*
*http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/16/taxi-wars-uber-destroying-the-taxi-industry.html*


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## F-uber (Aug 1, 2015)

UberNorthStar said:


> Taxi
> For the first 1/11 mile . . . $2.75
> Every 1/11 mile up to 1 mile . . . 20¢
> 
> ...


I misunderstood you because to my knowledge cabbies don't use that total for first mile calculation that you do. I thought you were saying the "drop" was $4.75. It is 2.75.


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## F-uber (Aug 1, 2015)

chi1cabby said:


> *Part 3*
> 
> *The taxi wars: Uber is 'destroying the taxi industry'*
> *http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/16/taxi-wars-uber-destroying-the-taxi-industry.html*


Damn! When I opened the page for the story, there was a drive for Uber ad at top of the page.


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## Paimei (Aug 20, 2015)

F-uber said:


> The $24/hr wait time is what is in question. I am almost sure, but can't prove it, that for traditional cabbies it only kicks in when one is traveling 11mph or less. With Uber it is going on no matter what the speed.
> 
> As a cabbie, I have always gone by the motto "I want this arse out of here as soon as possible". I have never seen wait time as profitable or enjoyable. Well, only in a handful of situations.


Correct, waiting , especially during a profitable time, is a waste of time. Moving is almost always better unless a large amount of money is offered.


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## Huberis (Mar 15, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> I think you are correct. Otherwise the website would be misleading call I g it "wait" time. It would simply be "time".
> 
> However the issue with time (wait or concurrent) being 15 cents per minute for uber is that waiting or being in a drive thru or traffic stopped is less than minimum wage. And even tacked on as concurrent with the miles it doesn't help much as even an entire hour at 60 mph it only adds 15 cents per mile to the fare. If you're driving 1 mph well then it adds a lot more but you are STILL less than minimum wage using even just gas expense.


I can tell you that for with respect to my rate schedule, wait time specifically refers to waiting. If it is a time call for a certain time, dispatch tries to get me there a few minutes early, but once the reservation time arrives, the meter goes on. If we are waiting for a pax who is doing a continuing trip, the meter switches to time.

I believe drivers need to step back and look at the prevailing patterns. You charge from within an environment called dynamic pricing. There is a virtually unlimited number of drivers. Uber can do that because they don't own the cars. If rates were reasonable, it is possible you still wouldn't make much money by way of having too damn many cars on the road. Uber's pricing model sounds great on paper, but not with the current inequality of responsibility and burden between the two parties.

Also, look at the both the top and bottom 40 paying markets. With a couple of exceptions, isn't it just a matter of market maturity as to which list a market lands on? The pricing system is manipulative. You could suggest it is meant to be an incentive to get people on the road, but there is more to it than that.

THe model is broken, Travis is not a cool guy.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

Huberis said:


> You are likely to be driving a pretty fine car. The typical Uber driver wants to keep it pristine, it is even expected of you. You need to either do repairs yourself or pay someone else, that takes time. At some point, maintenance gets more expensive, before that happens, you should have long been thinking about how you will replace the current car and setting money aside.


I drive a 2009 Honda Fit with 83,000 miles on it. When I purchased the car used I also purchased an additional bumper-to-bumper warranty that does not expire until Februay 2016. So far under this warranty my A/C blower has been replaced and the blower control has been fixed. I will not be able to use this car as of next summer when the new 2017 models come out. Houston will not authorize a permit b/c their TNC ordinance requires a vehicle to be eight years old or less. And that, my friend, maybe the end of my business using the Uber app. My taxi business will continue, though. 

My cost to operate my car per mile is 35 cents, which includes gas, regular (dealership) maintenance, oil changes, and tires. I forgot to include brakes. Once in place I will be deducting $27.72/week for the commercial insurance I need to cover ME in case of an at-fault accident (PIP, collision, comprehensive, 
non- or under-insured motorist).

Until my insurance is in place I do not drive on the Uber application.


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## Fuzzyelvis (Dec 7, 2014)

UberNorthStar said:


> I drive a 2009 Honda Fit with 83,000 miles on it. When I purchased the car used I also purchased an additional bumper-to-bumper warranty that does not expire until Februay 2016. So far under this warranty my A/C blower has been replaced and the blower control has been fixed. I will not be able to use this car as of next summer when the new 2017 models come out. Houston will not authorize a permit b/c their TNC ordinance requires a vehicle to be eight years old or less. And that, my friend, maybe the end of my business using the Uber app. My taxi business will continue, though.
> 
> My cost to operate my car per mile is 35 cents, which includes gas, regular (dealership) maintenance, oil changes, and tires. I forgot to include brakes. Once in place I will be deducting $27.72/week for the commercial insurance I need to cover ME in case of an at-fault accident (PIP, collision, comprehensive,
> non- or under-insured motorist).
> ...


I was under the impression 2008 was ok now but not after next July. And your 2009 would be ok another year or until July 2017. Not that you're likely to want to do this that long unless things change.


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

chi1cabby said:


> *http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...ajam&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow*
> _
> This four-part series, co-reported and -published with the Houston Chronicle, examines the impact of Uber, the app-based ride-hailing service, on America's fourth-largest city._


Warning! This is the danger of smart DATA use by UBER.

UBER, as a technology company, has now collected a massive data bank (info) that can be use to sell or attack any one on their way.

UBER is already using their info to attack your local politicians as Mayor of New York City. Take a look at this article.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...e7be98-3483-11e5-8e66-07b4603ec92a_story.html

When Mayor De Blasio proposed to limit the numbers of Uber cars/drivers in NYC which have topped over 26,000 and has surpassed the numbers of taxis in the city, Uber deployed their arm.

UBER sent a mass text/e-mail messages to paxs and drivers to reject the proposal and to call their politician to force Mayor De Blasio to change his mine about limiting the numbers of Uber cars in the city.

Be careful on what you read, UBER data info can be use to elect your local officials. The age of the machines is here.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

MoneyUber4 said:


> Warning! This is the danger of smart DATA use by UBER.


Are you insinuating the Houston Chronicle article is Uber propaganda?


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## MoneyUber4 (Dec 9, 2014)

UberNorthStar said:


> Are you insinuating the Houston Chronicle article is Uber propaganda?


Yes, on a way it is. Look at the report: HOUSTON - On June 23, the app-based car service Uber sent a media blast aimed at area customers: "Get your paws on a puppy!"
It is just another way to advertise the customers.

What I am saying is: UBER has now a lot of power because they have now a Hugh data base information (cells and e-mail addresses of customers and drivers) that can be use for multiple purposes, UBER can use that information to take down any political opponent.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

Thank you for explaining that to me.  I agree with you.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

*PART 4 . . Disabled Trying to Find a Ride in an Uber*

*http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/17/taxi-wars-trying-to-find-a-ride-with-uber.html*

The disabled especially those who are using an electric wheelchair, are not able to get Uber-priced rides. Ppl in the 3rd Ward feel they are underserved due to the drivers feeling it is not a safe place.


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

Another Uber Driver said:


> Your fears may be well-founded, on paper, but they will not play out in reality.
> 
> We _*ain't *_going *nowhere.*


Well, the *good and smart* ones _*ain't *_going *nowhere.*


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

F-uber said:


> That puppy nonsense in the initial paragraph, lauded as "masterful", is some of the silliest nonsense I have ever heard of.
> 
> Are we as Americans really that trite and lonely? Yup, maybe so.


Someone who doesn't know puppies are killer marketing. And your opinion on Mom and Apple Pie?


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## F-uber (Aug 1, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> Someone who doesn't know puppies are killer marketing. And your opinion on Mom and Apple Pie?


Opinion still stands. I think it is corny and trite. I am just a driver so what do I know?


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## Sacto Burbs (Dec 28, 2014)

F-uber said:


> Opinion still stands. I think it is corny and trite. I am just a driver so what do I know?


In marketing there is only one question - did the viewer remember the product name?

Next time you see a great ad wait 5 min and tell me if you can remember the product. If not, the ad was a stinker.


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## F-uber (Aug 1, 2015)

Sacto Burbs said:


> In marketing there is only one question - did the viewer remember the product name?
> 
> Next time you see a great ad wait 5 min and tell me if you can remember the product. If not, the ad was a stinker.


Trust me, I understand that. I still think it is idiotic and it is shame the way we have cheapened ourselves.

I only ask that an ad be creative at best and just informative at minimum. Using animals to sell anything is just lame.


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

I did not know Uber gave out puppies until I read the newspaper article, and I get all three major TV channels here in Houston as well as AM/FM on the car radio.

Now I can tell you that Westside Subaru was helping place animals from the SPCA. Their ads on the TV and radio were to the effect "Buy a Subaru and take home a friend!"


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## UberNorthStar (Jul 7, 2015)

Fuzzyelvis said:


> And your 2009 would be ok another year or until July 2017.


My 2009 was put out in 2008. Houston will not permit a car that is older than 8 yrs. So July 2016 is my end date.


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