# Is the Express Drive program with Lyft worth it?



## swifty3000 (Jun 24, 2017)

I'm reading a whole lot of very bad reviews and horror stories for the Fair car leasing option with Uber--bad cars, very poor customer service, and being charged for services not rendered. So, I've decided to look into Lyft's Express Drive program. I live in Pittsburgh, PA and will be driving full-time.

What is your experience with Lyft's Express Drive program?

Are their cars relatively new and in good condition?

How's their customer support?

Are their charges reasonable enough to make a decent return as a full-time driver with Lyft?

Are repairs like break line fixes or under-the-hood repairs covered by the weekly rental cost?

How reliable is their insurance coverage? Has anyone had a bad experience where express drive would not honor your accident claim or drag on for a long time for processing your claim?

Does Lyft have, if not more than, at least the same amount of business as Uber?

I'm considering Express Drive after deciding not to signup with Fair's leasing program with Uber.

Thanks.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

swifty3000 said:


> I'm reading a whole lot of very bad reviews and horror stories for the Fair car leasing option with Uber--bad cars, very poor customer service, and being charged for services not rendered. So, I've decided to look into Lyft's Express Drive program. I live in Pittsburgh, PA and will be driving full-time.
> 
> What is your experience with Lyft's Express Drive program? Not positive
> 
> ...


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## Uberisfuninlv (Mar 22, 2017)

Ask drivers in Orlando how profitable it is. They will tell you how great it is to drive for .36 a mile


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## New2This (Dec 27, 2015)

As mentioned above. Check your market's rate card. Some markets Lyft pays less per mile for using their car. So you're driving more to make what you'd make otherwise. 

You also can't Uber in it.

Look at Maven. You can use their cars for Uber/Lyft and anything else you want.


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## swifty3000 (Jun 24, 2017)

Uberisfuninlv said:


> Ask drivers in Orlando how profitable it is. They will tell you how great it is to drive for .36 a mile


Is this a sarcastic remark? :wink: because I know Lyft lowered the payout 10 cents down from 46 cents a mile in select areas like Orlando as you said.



New2This said:


> As mentioned above. Check your market's rate card. Some markets Lyft pays less per mile for using their car. So you're driving more to make what you'd make otherwise.
> 
> You also can't Uber in it.
> 
> Look at Maven. You can use their cars for Uber/Lyft and anything else you want.


Unfortunately, Maven is not available in Pittsburgh, PA where I live.

*Here are some recent changes that Lyft made to their Express Drive program in Pittsburgh:*

They lowered the insurance deductible from $2,500 to $1,000 when you are giving a ride, but I'm not sure if this also applies when you are on your way to pick up a ride, when you are waiting for a ride request, or even when you drive for personal use.

Express Drive drivers now can use express pay.

The rental fee went up by $10 from $229 to $239, taxes will be added on top of this. 25% right? That will be a whopping $298 per week!!

They decreased the payout by 5 cents to 18 cents a mile in the Pittsburgh market. only .18 a mile??? How do they expect drivers to get by on that?

I read somewhere that, on average, Express Drive drivers only get about 45 rides per week in Pittsburgh. Based on this, I don't know if it is really worth it to do the Express Drive program in Pittsburgh as I would need to drive at least 60+ hours per week just to break even and make just a little money over that, but on the other hand I don't want to use the rental program to scrape up money for a used car because used cars have a high overhead in maintenance costs. I would rather just use the rental car to drive for about 2 years while I am in school after which I will be in the position to get my own car and drop rideshare driving all together.

Can I pay the deposit and the weekly rental payments with my credit card or will the deposit and the weekly rental cost come right out of my bank account? I don't know how accurate it is, but I heard that the deposit comes out of your bank account (you can't use you credit card) and the weekly rent comes out of your weekly rideshare earnings.

A minor point probably, but I found out that I have to go to a Pep Boys store in Pittsburgh to pick up the Hertz rental car for the Express Drive program. WTF!?! This sounds so shady. They don't have a Hertz rental car agency in Pittsburgh that rents out to Lyft drivers? I'm having second thoughts about this now.


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## 240BIGWINO (Jul 1, 2018)

swifty3000 said:


> Is this a sarcastic remark? :wink: because I know Lyft lowered the payout 10 cents down from 46 cents a mile in select areas like Orlando as you said.
> 
> Unfortunately, Maven is not available in Pittsburgh, PA where I live.
> 
> ...


I did it in DC when there was a 1000 signup bonus and they paid the regular rates. My net was around $3/hour doing it 40 hours a week. I was lucky not to damage the car or get a flat tire as that is on you and that point you've made nothing. The Hertz in Pep Boys is a joke. A place to waste 1-2 hours when you first rent and every 28 days thereafter. You won't mistake it for a regular Hertz location.

I strongly suggest finding the best car you can afford that has 2 years left in your market. That is your only hope of actually making money at this gig.


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

Based on what Lyft is doing in cutting the pay for Hertz Express Drive, it would appear they are trying to kill it. 

It's either that or they really don't know what they are doing. Nothing else makes any sense.


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## swifty3000 (Jun 24, 2017)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Based on what Lyft is doing in cutting the pay for Hertz Express Drive, it would appear they are trying to kill it.
> 
> It's either that or they really don't know what they are doing. Nothing else makes any sense.


My thought exactly. The ridesharing market including Express Drive is getting over saturated and they are trying to kill it by imposing all these changes. In effect, they are probably trying to deliberately discourage existing drivers from continuing this gig and potential drivers from signing up. I don't know. I'm just thinking of finding a warehouse job that gives me a guaranteed income of at least $960 per month. I think I'll be able to live on that until I finish school. But then again, there is always that lingering desire to do express drive.


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## here2der (Jul 2, 2018)

Unless they were ALL lying to me -- based on the discussions I've had with at least 10 of my pax that claimed to have been drivers in the Lyft rental program here, Lyft seems to give significant priority of incoming pings to the rental drivers (and this from an owner driver with a consistent 4.95 to 4.99 rating), and they can average significantly above min wage, after rental fees and gas.

I have also read accounts on this forum of people being reasonably successful with it long term, as well as some reporting abyssmal results. As with most of the success with the various app gigs, I think it is highly dependent on the location/market and can involve a bit of luck. All you can do is try it out for yourself, and make your own determination of whether it seems worth it for your own unique situation.


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## CTK (Feb 9, 2016)

swifty3000 said:


> My thought exactly. The ridesharing market including Express Drive is getting over saturated and they are trying to kill it by imposing all these changes. In effect, they are probably trying to deliberately discourage existing drivers from continuing this gig and potential drivers from signing up. I don't know. I'm just thinking of finding a warehouse job that gives me a guaranteed income of at least $960 per month. I think I'll be able to live on that until I finish school. But then again, there is always that lingering desire to do express drive.


They are absolutely NOT trying to discourage existing drivers from continuing or new drivers from signing up - markets are oversaturated because Uber & Lyft want it that way and it costs them nothing.

More likely they've realized that Express Drive is a losing venture and they're trying to kill it off. Or, they're looking to make a little extra on some truly desperate drivers. Or both. My advice is to find any alternative - Express Drive is truly Lyft slavery.


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## peteyvavs (Nov 18, 2015)

swifty3000 said:


> I'm reading a whole lot of very bad reviews and horror stories for the Fair car leasing option with Uber--bad cars, very poor customer service, and being charged for services not rendered. So, I've decided to look into Lyft's Express Drive program. I live in Pittsburgh, PA and will be driving full-time.
> 
> What is your experience with Lyft's Express Drive program?
> 
> ...


It's a program that guarantees that you'll drive 80 hours a week just to take home 400;to 500


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

peteyvavs said:


> It's a program that guarantees that you'll drive 80 hours a week just to take home 400;to 500


I don't believe you can take home $400-$500 a week on the express drive program


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

First of all -- if you rent a car through Lyft, you cannot use it to drive for Uber. Second the car cannot leave the state unless on a trip, meaning, no personal trips. 
In L.A., Uber has a rental program through Hertz. The rental covers all service - oil/ filter changes, brake inspection or replace, tire rotation, etc. I have never had an accident, so do not know about that area of service. 
Lyft -- Lyft has two rental programs in L.A. --
Flex drive - very new cars owned by Lyft and rented out. Same service conditions as mentioned above.
Express drive - Hertz retired cars ( most have 40K miles ) in very good condition - same service conditions as mentioned above. 
In my experience the customer service is fine with both programs. In the Flex program - the cars are newer and have less human wear if compared to an X - Hertz rental car. 
I do not know Pittsburghs market so do not know if Lyft is busy. In L.A. the market is strong. 
I rent because I do not want all those miles on my car. I have rented through both programs and had no problems with either. 
Latest car was through Flex Program -- a 2018 Hyundia Sonata with 11K miles . Very nice car -- huge back seat. 
Yes, it is expensive but it is worth it - to me.


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## swifty3000 (Jun 24, 2017)

KK2929 said:


> First of all -- if you rent a car through Lyft, you cannot use it to drive for Uber. Second the car cannot leave the state unless on a trip, meaning, no personal trips.
> In L.A., Uber has a rental program through Hertz. The rental covers all service - oil/ filter changes, brake inspection or replace, tire rotation, etc. I have never had an accident, so do not know about that area of service.
> Lyft -- Lyft has two rental programs in L.A. --
> Flex drive - very new cars owned by Lyft and rented out. Same service conditions as mentioned above.
> ...


Seems promising. But of course, like you said, it depends on the market. How much is your weekly take home pay?


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

swifty3000 said:


> Seems promising. But of course, like you said, it depends on the market. How much is your weekly take home pay?


I drive around 30 hours per week - $240 for the car -- $300 for me. That is after Lyft takes their 55%. It varies but that is the average. I live 30 miles from a Lyft active area, so I have to drive a distance to work.
Important to remember that you can only drive for Lyft. I have heard that Uber will allow you to drive for other companies if renting from them but do not know if it is true. Try it for a few weeks. Everyone has their own needs, expectations and hopes. Renting is better for me, even though the expense is huge. It is a weekly rental agreement and can be cancelled with no problems.
There is a $250 deposit that is refunded when you turn in the car. Ubers rental deposit is considerable higher.


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## swifty3000 (Jun 24, 2017)

KK2929 said:


> I drive around 30 - 45 hours per week - $240 for the car -- $300 for me. That is after Lyft takes their 55%. It varies but that is the average. I live 30 miles from a Lyft active area, so I have to drive a distance to work.
> Important to remember that you can only drive for Lyft. I have heard that Uber will allow you to drive for other companies if renting from them but do not know if it is true. Try it for a few weeks. It is a weekly rental agreement and can be cancelled with no problems.
> There is a $250 deposit that is refunded when you turn in the car. Ubers rental deposit is considerable higher.


Thanks for the reply. $300 per week, that's only $1,200 per month in earnings. Less gas, income taxes, and misc car maintenence like oil changes leaves you probably only with around $500 in your pocket per month? How are you living on that, paying for rent, food, and other expenses? Are you doing other gigs apart from Lyft? By the way, Uber's Fair leasing program requires a nonrefundable $500 deposit at least here in Pittsburgh.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

swifty3000 said:


> Thanks for the reply. $300 per week, that's only $1,200 per month in earnings. Less gas, income taxes, and misc car maintenence like oil changes leaves you probably only with around $500 in your pocket per month? How are you living on that, paying for rent, food, and other expenses? Are you doing other gigs apart from Lyft? By the way, Uber's Fair leasing program requires a nonrefundable $500 deposit at least here in Pittsburgh.


------------------------
Not my primary income. I am retired and got bored, so started driving. I would NEVER try to do this to support myself and I admire all who are doing it because I know how many hours they are in the car. I am not here to set the world on fire. Also, if I have a negative balance at tax time - it is in my favor toward the other income. 
Is Ubers Fair Leasing program the name for the Hertz car leasing program? Like with Lyft - using Hertz cars it is called Lyft Express Drive.
Yes, I would love to make $50/hour and if Lyft did not take such a huge cut it would be an ideal job. But I am limited to the type of work that I can comfortably do. The positives out weigh the negatives. My own schedule, I am the boss, gets me out of the house, etc.
Where else can I make money for driving around and listening to the radio? I have driven 3 years and decided long ago to rent. I do not want all those miles on my personal car, so I drive 12 hours for the car. My choice, my decision. No, I don't like paying that much money for a rental, especially when Lyft raises the fee, plus, decreases the per mile pay and tells me that in order to continue the rental program they have to keep up with the costs. ???? That is B.S. 
Lyft is poorly managed on all levels. They hired an outside security company to have an guard at EVERY location - rental and support. That has to run them $300-$400 per day at every location and there are many in Los Angeles. I don't think that is necessary. That is what the police department is for. The guard at one of the store is 150 lbs over weight and walks around the Pep Boys in his socks all day. All support centers have too many paid employees. When two could do the job, Lyft will have four or five. One is working and the others are playing with their phones. BUT Lyft has a cash cow in their drivers. They can operate inefficiently because the cash flow never stops. The simple fact that drivers are unable to get help or answers to their questions is proof of how poorly the staff is trained.
Sorry, I got off of the subject. As a former business owner, the waste shown by both these companies is just absurd.


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## swifty3000 (Jun 24, 2017)

KK2929 said:


> ------------------------
> Not my primary income. I am retired and got bored, so started driving. I would NEVER try to do this to support myself and I admire all who are doing it because I know how many hours they are in the car. I am not here to set the world on fire. Also, if I have a negative balance at tax time - it is in my favor toward the other income.
> Is Ubers Fair Leasing program the name for the Hertz car leasing program? Like with Lyft - using Hertz cars it is called Lyft Express Drive.
> Yes, I would love to make $50/hour and if Lyft did not take such a huge cut it would be an ideal job. But I am limited to the type of work that I can comfortably do. The positives out weigh the negatives. My own schedule, I am the boss, gets me out of the house, etc.
> ...


Uber's leasing is called Fair leasing. It should actually be called "Fraud Leasing". And I can totally relate to what you said about Lyft's laziness and ineptness.

I called the hertz location that does express drive. It's actually located inside the pep boys store.

First off, the 2 reps I talked to gave me a "why are you bothering me" attitude.

Info they gave me:

You can pay the deposit with your credit card.

They offer express pay.

They don't do a credit check.

Hertz roadside assistance: if it's not a call about a mechanical issue, like if you had a blown out tire, then they will charge you $200 to tow the car to a mechanic shop. So you have to have a third party road side service like AAA. AAA only gives you 4 free Roadside assistance calls per year. So I don't know how feasible this would be with driving for express drive.

Hertz covers normal wear and tear on the car including wear and tear on the tires and breaks/rotors. They also cover oil changes and repairs like breaks and under the hood repairs.

So despite how shady some of this seems, I might give this a try and see how it goes for the first month or two.


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

swifty3000 said:


> Uber's leasing is called Fair leasing. It should actually be called "Fraud Leasing". And I can totally relate to what you said about Lyft's laziness and ineptness.
> 
> I called the hertz location that does express drive. It's actually located inside the pep boys store.
> 
> ...


--------------------------
Pretty much the same in L.A. but calling a rental yard is pointless here. They never answer. These are fairly new cars, so less likely to have breakdowns. If the Lyft Flex drive is available, I would use that one. But I had no problems with the Express Drive, either. Just personal preference. Ohh, stay away from the 2018 Chevy Malibu - dangerous car.


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## swifty3000 (Jun 24, 2017)

KK2929 said:


> --------------------------
> Pretty much the same in L.A. but calling a rental yard is pointless here. They never answer. These are fairly new cars, so less likely to have breakdowns. If the Lyft Flex drive is available, I would use that one. But I had no problems with the Express Drive, either. Just personal preference. Ohh, stay away from the 2018 Chevy Malibu - dangerous car.


That was same experience I had when I called the rental yard at pep boys. My first call was not answered. It just kept ringing and ringing. The second time I called, someone did pick it up, but was rude and gave me an attitude. I'm not sure if she didn't know the answer to my question or just wanted to pass the call to someone else but she gave the phone to another rep and he gave me an attitude in his tone of voice too.

When you said these are fairly new cars, did you mean the ones for express drive? What year range can I expect at the rental lot. And on average, how many miles will the cars have on them before they are rented out?

If you don't mind me asking, what's the year make and model of your rental car? And how many miles did it have on it when you first got it. Did it have pre-existing damage to the body or pre-existing mechanical issues?

Why is the 2018 Malibu dangerous to drive?


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

swifty3000 said:


> That was same experience I had when I called the rental yard at pep boys. My first call was not answered. It just kept ringing and ringing. The second time I called, someone did pick it up, but was rude and gave me an attitude. I'm not sure if she didn't know the answer to my question or just wanted to pass the call to someone else but she gave the phone to another rep and he gave me an attitude in his tone of voice too.
> 
> When you said these are fairly new cars, did you mean the ones for express drive? What year range can I expect at the rental lot. And on average, how many miles will the cars have on them before they are rented out?
> 
> ...


---------------------------
The rental yard discourages calls because they are lazy and too many people call. They prefer that you walk into the location and do a face to face.
All this is L.A. - not certain if same policy in your area.

Hertz buys new cars and at 30K miles they retire them from their rental program and put them into the Lyft & Uber rental program.
In the Lyft Express drive program, the cars will have between 30K - 75K. Hertz usually pulls a car at 75K.

Lyft Flex drive -- new program and Lyft bought these cars new.

I have driven a 2018 Chevy Malibu it had 38K miles when I got it, 2018 Nissan Sentra that had 29K when I got it and 2018 Hyundia Sonata had 11K miles when I got it. The Nissan is a nice car but cheap.

The Malibu - long list. Cannot open trunk from the inside, except with the key remote, which does not work well anyway.
I do a lot of airport runs and getting in and out of the car to open the trunk for luggage does not work for me.
Major issues -- the car has a "traction" control that is automatic. The only way to get out of it is to stop the car, turn off motor for 10-15 seconds and restart.
True story : I had been having trouble with this traction feature before this incident. I am entering a fwy ramp and there was water runoff at the entrance. One of the tires lost traction and the car drops the gear to LOW, not low in an automatic transmission but Low in a standard trans. I am on the ramp with cars behind me and I cannot go faster than 10-15 mph. I had no where to pull over on the ramp out of traffic and I had a pax in the car. This meant that I am entering the fwy doing 15 mph, which is very bad, especially in L.A.
The fact that the car takes over control and I, as the driver, had zero control is a feature that I consider extremely dangerous.
I took the car back the next day and turned it in and got the Sonata ( very nice car).
The manager told me that he currently had 6 Malibu(s) in the shop for motor work. That car, also, has a feature that I do not like. It shuts down if you stop for 15 sec and seems to restart when you accelerate. Weird feature and unpleasant to drive. It has a secondary brake system. When I apply the brake , the car also applies. Unfortunately, when I release the brake, the car is 1-2 sec slower in releasing their part. The braking system was very noisy, also. When the paxs ask me why the car is so noisy -- it is not a good sign. All the problems with the Malibu could just be a bad car but I will never drive one again. An 18 wheeler almost ran me over on the fwy. The feeling of having zero control in a dangerous situation was a bit unsettling. Needless to say, I will NEVER get in a auto-driven car.

The rental rep walks around the car with you and notes all damage on a ticket. They, also, take photos of the car before it leaves the lot. I, also, take a photo of all sides when I pickup and return.


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## nouberipo (Jul 24, 2018)

swifty3000 said:


> I'm reading a whole lot of very bad reviews and horror stories for the Fair car leasing option with Uber--bad cars, very poor customer service, and being charged for services not rendered. So, I've decided to look into Lyft's Express Drive program. I live in Pittsburgh, PA and will be driving full-time.
> 
> What is your experience with Lyft's Express Drive program?
> 
> ...


If you have to ask if its worth it then you deserve nothing more than the encouragement to do it and make money for Lyft at the expense of your own income. You will lose money but then again that is what Lyft is in the business of doing (hopefully the existing investors will start to realize they are not immune to this statement).


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## NuberUber (Dec 28, 2015)

Okay so here’s my 2 cents, as briefly as possible...

I just turned in my express drive car - I have had 2 since starting with Lyft last September.

Mid-October a girl crashed into me, her fault but no insurance so I freaked. Worried I would have to pay the deductible (back then $2500) but gave statements to police, hertz on the spot and their insurance company later and didn’t have to pay anything. Turned in the crashed up vehicle the next day and drove off in a new (to me) vehicle.

First car was a Nissan Sentra around 25k miles and pretty good on mileage. Second car is a Hyundai Elantra with around 29k at pick up. Sadly not in amazing condition- no floor mats (you must provide your own), tear in the carpet right where your heel sits while driving and stained seats which only got worse over time due to the lighter fabric.

So basically a mixed review- I like that I got to walk away from a crashed car and hertz had to deal with the aftermath of being hit by an uninsured driver. That was a pro.

Unfortunately as far as I am concerned the drastically reduced pay was the breaking point for me. Express drive renters make around 60% of regular Lyft Driver pay here after the last 10% cut effective last week. It’s ridiculous that you make so little!! It feels like it takes forever to make money!

Also as mentioned earlier you have to work at least 15 hours or so to make the payment for the car before you start pocketing anything. Other negatives include having to service car only 9-5 Monday through Friday as they are only available then to get authorization for oil changes,etc. A simple oil change can take 5-6 hours due to this process and appointments can be a challenge to get. You are required to take the car in every 28 days or you receive nasty texts about how the car will be repossessed at your cost. You must do the minimum of 20 rides a week without fail or receive the same nasty texts.

Lastly, even though I turned the car in completely clean and with the same amount of gas as at pickup, they kept $210 of the $250 deposit. Not that I’m surprised but it is total BS! Just another way for them to make this program feasible.

My advice: stay the hell away from Express Drive if you have ANY other options! Maybe even consider a different job at that point- you can’t make any money with Express Drive cars unless you work consistently crazy hours. Even then, not worth it.


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## dauction (Sep 26, 2017)

DO NOT LEASE a CAR ..worst decision you could ever make


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## KK2929 (Feb 9, 2017)

I forgot to mention - the insurance deductible mentioned by nouberipo is $1,000 in L.A.
Do not know why they kept $210 of his $250 deposit -- I have never had a problem getting a full refund.
Yes, 3-4 months ago Lyft increase the rate $10/week and lowered the payment per mile, which for me was $6.00 per 100 LOGGED ON miles. You are just starting, so you cannot miss something that you never had. :biggrin:
Like I stated, the Lyft market is very strong in Los Angeles. I make the car rent in 10 - 12 hours of driving. If Lyft did not take 50% of my earnings , it would only take 5 - 6 hours of driving. :big grin:



swifty3000 said:


> Thanks for the reply. $300 per week, that's only $1,200 per month in earnings. Less gas, income taxes, and misc car maintenence like oil changes leaves you probably only with around $500 in your pocket per month? How are you living on that, paying for rent, food, and other expenses? Are you doing other gigs apart from Lyft? By the way, Uber's Fair leasing program requires a nonrefundable $500 deposit at least here in Pittsburgh.


----------------------
This will depress you - but I have to point it out --
Look at it this way -- it is hard to calculate because Lyfts cut varies. However, Lyft is taking an average of 46.8% of my earnings.
This means that I have to earn $452.00 in trips to earn $240 for the car. Yikes !! However, my car takes no abuse, I quit when I want to and I love to drive. Time flies - every day that I work. Where else can you drive around, listening to the radio and get paid ?
Plus, at tax time this year, 80% of that expense was written off. ( can only declare the "Logged On" time.
Most will look at those figures and be horrified. I have another income, I am not supporting a family and I DO NOT want to spend 70+ hours in my car. Plus, the car that I drive is 3 years younger than my car. Also, I live way out in rural America ( yes, even in L.A.) I have to drive 30+ miles, one way, to get to an active Lyft area. That is 60 additional miles a day on a car. This arrangements works fine for me. So, I bite the bullet.


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## PhillyPat (Feb 19, 2019)

I have been recording segments of my journey with Lyft's Express Drive program over the last 2+ months. I'll be posting the video on here and on YouTube when I turn the car in, which should be in the next week or so.

There's a whole lot of good and a _whole lot of bad._


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## 240BIGWINO (Jul 1, 2018)

PhillyPat said:


> I have been recording segments of my journey with Lyft's Express Drive program over the last 2+ months. I'll be posting the video on here and on YouTube when I turn the car in, which should be in the next week or so.
> 
> There's a whole lot of good and a _whole lot of bad._


I was hoping someone would make a YouTube video about this. Can't wait.


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## swifty3000 (Jun 24, 2017)

PhillyPat said:


> I have been recording segments of my journey with Lyft's Express Drive program over the last 2+ months. I'll be posting the video on here and on YouTube when I turn the car in, which should be in the next week or so.
> 
> There's a whole lot of good and a _whole lot of bad._


Looking forward to it. Thanks.


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## Judas Iscariot (Aug 17, 2015)

If you are a full time driver putting in more than 60-70 hrs per week, maybe.


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## RogerD (Jan 8, 2019)

My Express Drive numbers in Phoenix for the last couple of weeks...


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## Bob Reynolds (Dec 20, 2014)

RogerD said:


> My Express Drive numbers in Phoenix for the last couple of weeks...
> 
> View attachment 324299
> 
> ...


Where is the cost of the rental car in these numbers?


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## RogerD (Jan 8, 2019)

Bob Reynolds said:


> Where is the cost of the rental car in these numbers?


It's the difference between Earned and Gross. $260.51 a week in Phoenix. One was a partial week.


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## stanigu (Dec 8, 2016)

Buy a used, hybrid car for cheap! Don't worry so much about mileage on the car--pay more attention to the condition of the vehicle. I got a good deal on a very clean 2011 Ford fusion hybrid recently which I bought for $5500. High miles (140K), but one owner with service records from the dealer. I get 40mpg on mixed driving. No lease payments to worry about. Depreciation? A non-issue. I'm into it only for $5500. If the car lasts only 2 years and is worth nothing after 2 years, I've incurred only $2750 in depreciation per year.

Another thing to consider: you rent these cars. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they're registered in the driver's name. What does this mean? Come tax time, you can't use the standard mileage deduction. This could be huge, depending on what you earn. If I drive, say 50,000 miles for U/L, that's $29,000 in tax deduction. Sure, you get to deduct the "lease" payments, but those deductions pale in comparison to the standard mileage deduction. I think the lease payments add up to about $12K/year? The difference in deduction is $17,000. Self Employment tax only that alone is $2600--that means by leasing vs buying used, you'd be paying $2600 more in self employment taxes alone! If you're at, say, 12% tax bracket, that's additional $2000 you'd pay in income taxes, for the whopping total of over $4600 extra in taxes you'd pay per year. Even if you're in the lower tax bracket, you won't escape the additional self employment tax.

Plus you are actually paying the "lease" payments--which in my opinion amounts to an exorbitant rental expenses month after month. Imagine pocketing that $1000 each month instead of forking it over to the "leasing" company.

So annual potential savings add up to $15,000 or more. That's huge considering how little this gig pays.

I'd say stay away from these "lease" deals. You're much better off buying used.


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## RogerD (Jan 8, 2019)

This was posted in another thread.

Quote from IRS publication 463:
"If you lease a car, truck, or van that you use in your business, you can use the standard mileage rate or actual expenses to figure your deductible expense. ".


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## stanigu (Dec 8, 2016)

RogerD said:


> This was posted by DriverXLPlus in another thread.
> 
> Quote from IRS publication 463:
> "If you lease a car, truck, or van that you use in your business, you can use the standard mileage rate or actual expenses to figure your deductible expense. ".


Right. So do you lease it, or rent it? Whose name is on the registration?


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## RogerD (Jan 8, 2019)

Your right it is a rental. From Turbotax...
"The Lyft Express Drive program is a short term rental agreement, so the miles you drove don’t qualify for the mileage deduction. However, you can deduct some or all of your Express Drive Rental fees and any gas you purchased to drive your rental for Lyft."


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## NotanEmployee (Apr 20, 2019)

KK2929 said:


> I drive around 30 hours per week - $240 for the car -- $300 for me. That is after Lyft takes their 55%. It varies but that is the average. I live 30 miles from a Lyft active area, so I have to drive a distance to work.
> Important to remember that you can only drive for Lyft. I have heard that Uber will allow you to drive for other companies if renting from them but do not know if it is true. Try it for a few weeks. Everyone has their own needs, expectations and hopes. Renting is better for me, even though the expense is huge. It is a weekly rental agreement and can be cancelled with no problems.
> There is a $250 deposit that is refunded when you turn in the car. Ubers rental deposit is considerable higher.


I have to wonder how that works tax wise...youll pay income taxes on the full amount you bring in, cant deduct miles and ive never seen deductions for renting a car, eaven leasing a vehicle has conveluted rules that make it hard to deduct lease payments, if at all, youll pay more in taxes and have way less in your pocket.

Never mind. I looked it up. Its totally deductible as is gas and maintenance?

Then the question becomes...why go through lyft or uber when you can rent from anywhere?


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## RogerD (Jan 8, 2019)

You do not get any kind of 'bonuses' with Hyrecar or business like that, so ~$35.00 per day, but you can work for anyone. Uber's Fair has an initial account fee (non refundable) of $500 but lower weekly rate of ~$190.00.


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## Fozzie (Aug 11, 2018)

RogerD said:


> This was posted in another thread.
> 
> Quote from IRS publication 463:
> "If you lease a car, truck, or van that you use in your business, you can use the standard mileage rate or actual expenses to figure your deductible expense. ".


You're renting, not leasing, that vehicle, i.e. you can't claim mileage on it.


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## jgiun1 (Oct 16, 2017)

You also can't claim the miles since it's not you're car. You can write off some of the lease expense (not sure how much)

I gave the car back after renting one week in Pittsburgh. They take almost 12 ce ts a mile from rate card per trip....I was on pace to be screwed out of about $40 when I calculated the so called bonus for 60 rides and the 12 cents they are stealing from you're rate card.


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## RogerD (Jan 8, 2019)

Fozzie said:


> You're renting, not leasing, that vehicle, i.e. you can't claim mileage on it.


Yep. See post #36


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

i did rental in 2018 and payed around $17k in tax as a full time driver.

just a heads up to prospective renters.


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## jgiun1 (Oct 16, 2017)

stanigu said:


> Right. So do you lease it, or rent it? Whose name is on the registration?


Hertz is on regi



got a p said:


> i did rental in 2018 and payed around $17k in tax as a full time driver.
> 
> just a heads up to prospective renters.


Yep....I tried it out to see if I could use it to take maybe 15k miles a year off my car and said no way after 1 week.....the fact you're stuck driving for just Lyft and they don't surge here like Uber is another downfall in a very good drunk and pro teams market. (Except Pirates)

I would buy a car before I would even think of renting full time.


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## got a p (Jan 27, 2018)

yes renting would mean you would barely pull more than the $12k standard deduction. you pay $12-$13k and maybe $4k-$6k in gas. so barely less than standard deduction THEN you pay 7.5% MORE than a standard employee working a w2 job bc in a w2 job your employer pays 7.5% of your 15% SS tax. in our world we pay the full 15%. that's actually more than your federal income tax.

therefore if you will pay thousands more than a standard w2 employee making the same wages. so the whole "i like to pay tax on 1/4 of my income" in that guys sig. is a moot point to the rental drivers who make up as much as 50% or more of drivers in big cities. you WILL pay.

and as far as paying on 1/4 of your earnings (with your own car) that's a stretch unless you're cooking the books, ie: committing a federal crime. more like 1/3 to 1/2 your earnings, but repairs and maintenance eat up the difference anyways.

cheers! watch out for the uber/lyft trolls. they setup troll farms in the last couple months and several dozen post on this forum. don't fall for it, shills are easy to identify. and they spread lies and false info.


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## BostonTaxiDriver (Nov 23, 2014)

RogerD said:


> You do not get any kind of 'bonuses' with Hyrecar or business like that, so ~$35.00 per day, but you can work for anyone. Uber's Fair has an initial account fee (non refundable) of $500 but lower weekly rate of ~$190.00.


So Hyrecar seems similar to the hourly Getaround app, now available in Boston as well as some other cities. I believe no surge, no quest and no consecutive trip bonus. Plus, I'm not sure if they at least pay identical mileage and time rates as with regular drivers -- or pays much lower per mile (and time?) as Lyft ExpressDrive disgustingly pulls off.

Plus, both the Uber and Lyft offices in Boston say Hyrecar is not eligible here whereas Hyrecar says it is legal in Boston. Hmmm...maybe Hyrecar is official in major California cities only?

...

Oh, and whenever I check the Hyrecar app, most cars start at $35 to $50 daily, plus tax, plus $13 daily insurance! And the cars are usually older whereas Getaround has 2019 Elantras in Boston. And surprise - Getaround charges a $1.50 fee for every toll!

I'll be buying used soon, so I won't have to earn less on these different kinds of rental programs.



KK2929 said:


> First of all -- if you rent a car through Lyft, you cannot use it to drive for Uber. Second the car cannot leave the state unless on a trip, meaning, no personal trips.
> In L.A., Uber has a rental program through Hertz. The rental covers all service - oil/ filter changes, brake inspection or replace, tire rotation, etc. I have never had an accident, so do not know about that area of service.
> Lyft -- Lyft has two rental programs in L.A. --
> Flex drive - very new cars owned by Lyft and rented out. Same service conditions as mentioned above.
> ...


I'm considering a FlexDrive instead of my usual ExpressDrive in Boston.

As you said, the cars are almost new versus 2015 or so with ExpressDrive at Hertz Pepboys locations. Although I had a nice Malibu recently for over five months until I needed time off. One could change cars only twice yearly. Not sure what FlexDrive's policy is.

With just one location, it seems about a week to get a FlexDrive car in the Boston area whereas with several ExpressDrive locations, one can get a Hertz ExpressDrive usually the nest business day.

With FlexDrive, can one use their own toll transponder.... or are tolls billed weeks later? Thanks.


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## jgiun1 (Oct 16, 2017)

BostonTaxiDriver said:


> So Hyrecar seems similar to the hourly Getaround app, now available in Boston as well as some other cities. I believe no surge, no quest and no consecutive trip bonus. Plus, I'm not sure if they at least pay identical mileage and time rates as with regular drivers -- or pays much lower per mile (and time?) as Lyft ExpressDrive disgustingly pulls off.
> 
> Plus, both the Uber and Lyft offices in Boston say Hyrecar is not eligible here whereas Hyrecar says it is legal in Boston. Hmmm...maybe Hyrecar is official in major California cities only?
> 
> ...


I think what makes me sick about lyft....they have two employees treat you like a child explaining the pay, cost and how they hold you're pay until you come up with the lease cost. But after I returned it and said did you happen to leave out that you're taking 11 cents a mile per trip, and I was on pace for me to lose $90 dollars only to get back $60 with the fake bonus....the lady shrugged her shoulders and said I know nothing about the rate card change...lol....yea right


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